# Can you give me some advice to lose belly fat?



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi, I'm 36 years old and have a fair bit of muscle but my abs are covered with a fair bit of fat as well, a bit jiggly and my pecs are droopy but not as bad as gyno. I look quite slim from the shoulders untill you get down to the abs and waist. My diet has limited carbs, plenty of veg, no fruit except blueberries..I drink fat reduced cocoa powder instead of eating chocolate bars. I treat myself to homemade apple crumble (no sugar except with the crumble mix) with low fat custard and plenty of cinnamon. I eat chicken but worried about the oestrogen problem (I could go organic but it is expensive). I love tuna fish, but do have it with low fat may on ryvita. I have a protein drink (Cyclone) each day. I have cut out coffee completely.

I used to do HIIT 2 days per week and medium to steady cardio 2 days (mainly jogging on treadmill for 40 mins), but noticed terrific weight gain around the midsection. Went to the doctors had a cortisol test and the result indicated I needed to cut out my morning cup of coffee and ease up on the cardio. So HIIT is out of the question. Doctor suggested a more steady state cardio routine but no longer than 20 minutes. He said keep up with the weight training.

I notice my breathing gets eratic when weight training. The doctor says I must monitor the volume of my workout to prevent cortisol spikes.

So I've tweaked everything and now I feel like I'm not actually doing enough because I am used to doing a proper tough workout. I weight train 3 days (chest/shoulders, back/biceps, I don't do squats because they build my ass too much) with cardio after, 3 days of extra cardio steady state now.

Am I in for the long-run with my fitness goals? I used to be slim in the past and actually got bullied for being so thin, and now at 36 I'm going the opposite way. I used to eat loads of rubbish, pies, pizzas, chips. Never gained an ounce of fat and wasn't particualrly active. Now I'm active and have gained weight. Just don't understand it. Now I'm being told that the chicken I am eating contains antibiotics which are making me fat.


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## Trapps84 (Oct 26, 2011)

The last 2 lines made me chuckle :lol:

Cardio.


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

Hi mate

How much do you weigh how tall are you? Pics will help.

Also need to let people know your diet ie. macros and quantities

Youll get much better advice of so.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Trapps84 said:


> The last 2 lines made me chuckle :lol:
> 
> Cardio.


What was so funny?


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## Trapps84 (Oct 26, 2011)

Martynbla said:


> What was so funny?


The chicken contains antibiotics lol


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Just_Bob said:


> Hi mate
> 
> How much do you weigh how tall are you? Pics will help.
> 
> ...


I never weigh myself. I'm 5.11" tall.

I eat quite clean, don't weight anything out. I eat small portions, make sure I eat some carbs, some protein, lots of veg, and olive oil only. I have one protein drink per day except on Monday when I go to college and do no training. My mum says it is because I am losing testosterone and getting older.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Trapps84 said:


> The chicken contains antibiotics lol


Poultry farmers do give antibiotics to their stock. I still do not see what is funny about that.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

I drink plenty of boiled water also.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

may I ask - male or femail?


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Diet.

You can't spot reduce fat.

The only way to lose it anywhere on the body is to eat at a calorie deficit.

Exercise helps to maintain that deficit but it's only secondary - it's all about that diet.


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

Low fat food usually contains **** loads of sugar... take that out of your diet.


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## FatBob (May 13, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> I never weigh myself. I'm 5.11" tall.
> 
> I eat quite clean, don't weight anything out. I eat small portions, make sure I eat some carbs, some protein, lots of veg, and olive oil only. I have one protein drink per day except on Monday when I go to college and do no training. My mum says it is because I am losing testosterone and getting older.


As the saying goes - "What gets measured gets done".

If you want to really lose "belly" fat then you must lose a good amount of fat tissue in general. There's no spot reduction.

I'd recommend working out your BMR, your TDEE and then figure out exactly what you eat right now to find how much you're on track to gaining/losing then figuring out your new number.

Use the website "Wolfram alpha" and type "weight loss" into the search. A physics calculator will pop up.

Measure it, get it done. Guessing leads to ?


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## tony10 (Oct 15, 2009)

cycled carbs. cut out your crap food. apple pie custard ect.

keep things simple.

you are what you eat.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Good ol' mum eh...!

Don't think antibiotics'll make you fat somehow...but there's no quick fix to losing bf.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)




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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> may I ask - male or femail?


Male. lol


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Male. lol


no worries then - diet, exercises and will power.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Diet.
> 
> You can't spot reduce fat.
> 
> ...


Nor was I spot reducing. I'm currently in a deficit. I've cut my diet right down, portion sizes especially. I eat less overall.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

latblaster said:


> Good ol' mum eh...!
> 
> Don't think antibiotics'll make you fat somehow...but there's no quick fix to losing bf.


It does apparently especially long-term use. I was ill a year ago and was on anti-biotics, and then had tooth abssess soon afterward, needing another course of antibiotics. I was given anti-fungal tablets by the doctor. The antigungal kills the years growth in the gut and it is the sugar from the yeast that causes the weight gain. Apparently.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

mal said:


>


That won't help me. I'm gay.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Your quite right Martyn, didn't know this at all there's a few articles about AB's & weight gain.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antibiotics-linked-weight-gain-mice

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/736867-antibiotics-weight-gain


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> It does apparently especially long-term use. I was ill a year ago and was on anti-biotics, and then had tooth abssess soon afterward, needing another course of antibiotics. I was given anti-fungal tablets by the doctor. The antigungal kills the years growth in the gut and it is the sugar from the yeast that causes the weight gain. Apparently.


your over analysing it fella - and setting yourself up to fail.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

tony10 said:


> cycled carbs. cut out your crap food. apple pie custard ect.
> 
> keep things simple.
> 
> you are what you eat.


That's the only sweet thing I have. I'd go insane on a diet completely devoid of sweet things. I no longer eat Cadburry's rubbish, and this apple crumble is homemade with no sugar, just the sweetness from the apple. Admittedly, the crumble has some sugar in it but it's not like I'm having it everyday. I have drastically cut sweet things down so that should help, or it should.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> your over analysing it fella - and setting yourself up to fail.


Actually I am not. Overuse of antibiotics leads to weight gain.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

latblaster said:


> Your quite right Martyn, didn't know this at all there's a few articles about AB's & weight gain.
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antibiotics-linked-weight-gain-mice
> 
> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/736867-antibiotics-weight-gain


True. My doctor is now aware of it.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Give up sweet things- it'll be hard for a few days, but then the cravings will go.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Actually I am not. Overuse of antibiotics leads to weight gain.


actually you are - if you were gaining weight through antibiotics you would adjust your diet to maintain the original target, you`ve already come out with an excuse not to be the shape you want to be.

diet, exercise and will power - the latter is the most important.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> actually you are - if you were gaining weight through antibiotics you would adjust your diet to maintain the original target, you`ve already come out with an excuse not to be the shape you want to be.
> 
> diet, exercise and will power - the latter is the most important.


I didn't say that I was going weight through antibiotics only; it may have contributed. And what original target? What does that mean? And what excuse have I given? I've only given you causes and explanations.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I didn't say that I was going weight through antibiotics only; it may have contributed. And what original target? What does that mean? And what excuse have I given? I've only given you causes and explanations.


stop looking for things that are going to stop you achieving your aim and get down to the bloody gym, you will not eat enough chicken for the antibiotics they carry to cause you to put on weight.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> diet, exercise and will power - the latter is the most important.


I know diet is important and exercise. But I think that they are an oversight. The food we eat is pumped full of chemicals, so I need to know how I can eat and minimise this. The exercise I have been doing has been bad for me, spiking my cortisol levels which has meant more weight gain. Will power is my problem, it has caused me to exercise more intensely and has led to weight gain. Will power with diet may be difficult, but like my doctor said I don't need to give up sweets completely. I know it would be better to give up sweets completely but I'd rather keep my sanity.


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## tony10 (Oct 15, 2009)

Martynbla said:


> That's the only sweet thing I have. I'd go insane on a diet completely devoid of sweet things. I no longer eat Cadburry's rubbish, and this apple crumble is homemade with no sugar, just the sweetness from the apple. Admittedly, the crumble has some sugar in it but it's not like I'm having it everyday. I have drastically cut sweet things down so that should help, or it should.


look in the journals mate and see what there eating to cut bodyfat.

sugar is sugar.


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

Are you @dinogoesrawr in disguise?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I know diet is important and exercise. But I think that they are an oversight. The food we eat is pumped full of chemicals, so I need to know how I can eat and minimise this. The exercise I have been doing has been bad for me, spiking my cortisol levels which has meant more weight gain. Will power is my problem, it has caused me to exercise more intensely and has led to weight gain. Will power with diet may be difficult, but like my doctor said I don't need to give up sweets completely. I know it would be better to give up sweets completely but I'd rather keep my sanity.


your on the wrong forum mate.


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## Brook877 (May 16, 2012)

Your going about it a really weird way IMO,

Your worried about antibiotics in chicken making you fat but you don't even know how much your actually eating?

Saying your eating less or eating small portions means nothing, scrap that.

Sit down and work out some numbers,

Unless you actually know how much you need to be eating (bmr) and how much you are eating your only assuming your eating under maintainence.

How old are you?


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> you will not eat enough chicken for the antibiotics they carry to cause you to put on weight.


I'm not looking for anything of the sort; I am rebutting your assumptions which I know are completely false. The antibiotics are not just in our chicken. If I eat chicken, which has been treated with chemicals, do you not think that this will impair my health and probably halt my weight loss goals? According to you I would not gain weight. I say to you, that you are probably wrong. In the past year my diet consisted purely of chicken and fish, so there is a chance that the long-term consumption of chicken and fish may have contributed to weight gain (amongst other things of course). I'm not ruling anything out, I'm just saying that your assumption that eating the chicken I have been doing will not cause me to gain weight. The chances that it has caused me to gain weight seems greater.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I'm not looking for anything of the sort; I am rebutting your assumptions which I know are completely false. The antibiotics are not just in our chicken. If I eat chicken, which has been treated with chemicals, do you not think that this will impair my health and probably halt my weight loss goals? According to you I would not gain weight. I say to you, that you are probably wrong. In the past year my diet consisted purely of chicken and fish, so there is a chance that the long-term consumption of chicken and fish may have contributed to weight gain (amongst other things of course). I'm not ruling anything out, I'm just saying that your assumption that eating the chicken I have been doing will not cause me to gain weight. The chances that it has caused me to gain weight seems greater.


nothing more to say mate - you`ll not be here long enough to make an impression,"I have to have sweets" FFS


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## Brook877 (May 16, 2012)

You've gained weight because you've eaten too much.

Not because the chicken had antibiotics in.

End of.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Brook877 said:


> Your going about it a really weird way IMO,
> 
> Your worried about antibiotics in chicken making you fat but you don't even know how much your actually eating?
> 
> ...


Smaller portion sizes makes common sense. It means I can stay below a deficit without weighing anything. I'm littery talking about the size of the palm of my hand, and plenty of veg, a chicken breast or a fillet of fish. So I am definately eating less and smaller portion sizes. I don't see what macro weighing will do anything for me, and I am told that macro weighing is fine for athletes and bodybuilders who need to look shredded. I'm not a bodybuilder. I don't need nor want to look like shredded, just lose some weight around the midsection. Advice acknowledge but I just do see how going to extreme lengths as weighing the amount of food I have and extreme calorie counting would be necessary. I just need to eat smaller portion sizes. Which I am doing already.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Brook877 said:


> You've gained weight because you've eaten too much.
> 
> Not because the chicken had antibiotics in.
> 
> End of.


I eat 4 times a day, portion sizes the size of the palm of my hand. Reduced carb consumption, no white bread (no bread in fact!), only brown rice. Substitute chocolate bar for cocoa drink. Don't drink cow's milk usually, but use almond or rice milk. All desserts are homemade thus reducing sugar intake; use only as a treat. Fruit consumption is cut drastically; only a handful of blueberries taken with natural yogurt. Drink plenty of water.

I eat too much?


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> nothing more to say mate - you`ll not be here long enough to make an impression,"I have to have sweets" FFS


I'm not here to make an impression. lol. I'm here to get some perspective on my weight gain problem. Out of interest, what do you do for a living? You sound too dismissive of people. I'm a pyschologist student, so what do you do for a living?


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## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm not a bodybuilder or trying to look "shredded" but I still weigh my food just to know how much I'm consuming.

How can people say their eating in a deficit without knowing what their actually consuming.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

tony10 said:


> look in the journals mate and see what there eating to cut bodyfat.
> 
> sugar is sugar.


I can remember a famous bodybuilder saying that he could never cut out sugar from his diet; it would drive him insane. His name is Lee Priest (Couldn't remember hsi name so did a google search) So would you mind telling Lee Priest that he is cutting himself short by having sugar in his diet? And wasn't it Ronnie someone who said that he would also go insane if he had to cut out sweets from his diet completely? Anyway, my point is that although it would be good to cut sugar out completely I would rather hold onto my sanity. I've tride cutting out sweets completely anyway, it takes lots of will power. Perhaps I don't have that kind of will power? That said, I know that there people have lost weight and not cut out sweets, and some people drink beer (which turns to sugar in the body) and eat what they like and never gain weight. So I would keep eating my treat, for psychological reasons of course.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> I'm not a bodybuilder or trying to look "shredded" but I still weigh my food just to know how much I'm consuming.
> 
> How can people say their eating in a deficit without knowing what their actually consuming.


I'm consuming adequate portion sizes, and the food is clean. Minimum salt. No hard fats, Plenty of veg. And clean protein.

I don't need to know the calorie count. I am told it is not important as much as reducing portion sizes and eating less refined foods.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I know diet is important and exercise. But I think that they are an oversight. The food we eat is pumped full of chemicals, so I need to know how I can eat and minimise this.


You seem to have a very poor understanding of nutrition.

A calories surplus is what makes you fat. Not how the food is processed.

You can eat "clean" all you like. But if you're eating over your calorie limit, you will gain fat.

Diet is a simple as this:

Calories In > Calories Out = Fat Gain

Calories In < Calories Out = Fat Loss


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## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I'm consuming adequate portion sizes, and the food is clean. Minimum salt. No hard fats, Plenty of veg. And clean protein.
> 
> I don't need to know the calorie count. I am told it is not important as much as reducing portion sizes and eating less refined foods.


But you can eat tiny portions of nothing but "clean" food and still be consuming to many calories or have massive portions and be in a deficit ?


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I don't need to know the calorie count. I am told it is not important as much as reducing portion sizes and eating less refined foods.


Wrong. Just wrong.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> I can remember a famous bodybuilder saying that he could never cut out sugar from his diet; it would drive him insane. His name is Lee Priest (Couldn't remember hsi name so did a google search) So would you mind telling Lee Priest that he is cutting himself short by having sugar in his diet? And wasn't it Ronnie someone who said that he would also go insane if he had to cut out sweets from his diet completely? Anyway, my point is that although it would be good to cut sugar out completely I would rather hold onto my sanity. I've tride cutting out sweets completely anyway, it takes lots of will power. Perhaps I don't have that kind of will power? That said, I know that there people have lost weight and not cut out sweets, and some people drink beer (which turns to sugar in the body) and eat what they like and never gain weight. So I would keep eating my treat, for psychological reasons of course.


I don't think you are ready to be be shredded.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> You seem to have a very poor understanding of nutrition.
> 
> A calories surplus is what makes you fat. Not how the food is processed.
> 
> ...


Do you actually read what I write? I think my knowledge of nutrition is quite sound. A calorie deficit plus exercise should be enough to get you on the track to losing weight. And it isn't that simple. There are other factors. Geesh! I'm no expert but I know more than you!


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## Brook877 (May 16, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I eat 4 times a day, portion sizes the size of the palm of my hand. Reduced carb consumption, no white bread (no bread in fact!), only brown rice. Substitute chocolate bar for cocoa drink. Don't drink cow's milk usually, but use almond or rice milk. All desserts are homemade thus reducing sugar intake; use only as a treat. Fruit consumption is cut drastically; only a handful of blueberries taken with natural yogurt. Drink plenty of water.
> 
> I eat too much?


Ok,

Reducing your portion sizes and cutting back on sugar is perfectly reasonable and sound advice, there's no arguments there,

But unless you know your actual intake, the numbers. How do you know if your eating too much? (Or too little for that point)

If you know what your body needs and what your giving it most of your questions will answer themselves.

But looking to blame antibiotics in foods (the same foods every one else on this board eats) before you've spent the time working out what your intake and expenditure is what's grinding people.

The bottom line is.

If you've gained unwanted weight you've eaten too much.

Try keeping an honest food diary for the next few days and work out what your actually eating.

I was asking your age in response to your comment about lower test levels as your ageing..


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Wrong. Just wrong.


Right. I'm right. I don't need to count calories if my portion sizes are adequate. I should be losing weight as a result of the drop in portion size alone. The bigger the portion size the more calories you take in. The smaller the portion size the less calories. It's basic maths, something you seem to be struggling with.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Troll?

:ban:


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Do you actually read what I write? I think my knowledge of nutrition is quite sound. A calorie deficit plus exercise should be enough to get you on the track to losing weight. And it isn't that simple. There are other factors. Geesh! I'm no expert but I know more than you!


Yes. You wrote this:



> I don't need to know the calorie count. I am told it is not important as much as reducing portion sizes and eating less refined foods.


That would indicate that you don't care how many calories you are taking in.

You are right though: you are no expert. And like others have said: probably a troll.

Negged.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Who made him red? hahaha.

But seriously, this guy can't actually be serious.

Its a bank holiday weekend, the sun is out. Get yourself out and stop trolling.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Brook877 said:


> But unless you know your actual intake, the numbers. How do you know if your eating too much? (Or too little for that point)
> 
> If you know what your body needs and what your giving it most of your questions will answer themselves.
> 
> ...


lol. I am not eating too much. The opposite is probably true: I'm not eating enough. As for the anti-biotics. It's now accepted that prolonged use of antibiotics leads to weight gain. I have used them extensively in the past year or two.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Martyn, you need to know exactly what your Caloric intake is, otherwise you won't lose weight.

Keep a Food Diary & you'll be shocked at how much you didn't realise you were eating.


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## Dutchguy_Asia (Nov 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Right. I'm right. I don't need to count calories if my portion sizes are adequate. I should be losing weight as a result of the drop in portion size alone. The bigger the portion size the more calories you take in. The smaller the portion size the less calories. It's basic maths, something you seem to be struggling with.


Your here for advice, you obviously aren't doing it right as your not loosibg weight. Not thst you know as you dont weigh yourself.

Then your disregarding all advice sounds like you just want to fail.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

reminds me of dingo


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Yes. You wrote this:
> 
> That would indicate that you don't care how many calories you are taking in.
> 
> ...


Yes. I did write that. I don't need to count calories. I'm already eating clean (except for the treats) and I don't eat bread, just brown rice and yams. I eat lean protein. Plenty of vegs. Reduced portion sizes, the amount that I am told by experts is good for weight loss. Why do I need to count calories? I don't. I'm already doing what needs to be done to lose weight. Counting calories will probably not help me, and I may actually need to eat more food.

Of course, some people here have their head in the clouds it seems. lol.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Dutchguy_Asia said:


> Your here for advice, you obviously aren't doing it right as your not loosibg weight. Not thst you know as you dont weigh yourself.
> 
> Then your disregarding all advice sounds like you just want to fail.


I'm trying find out why I'm doing it wrong, or whether the advice I am getting is the right advice. So far I see that the advice is just wrong or not applicable. I'm a beginner but I am not stupid.


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

'Im already eating clean, except for the treats' LOOL

This guy is trolling why are you all wasting your time.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

i lost 4 stone in 4 months eating 2000 calories a day with 200g protein ang then used my remaining calories on whatever i wanted

im not entirely sure if you're a man or women, but if your a woman maybe something like 1500 calories a day ?


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

Mate you cant come on here and ask for advice then within an hour start saying people have their heads in the clouds. Go and get advice elsewhere. These people arent getting paid to goce you advice there sharing the knowledge and experience. Lee priest and ronnie coleman may eat sweets. But you arent either of them...


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Let me start again before the lynch mob get to excited:

I've reduced my calorie intake, by reducing portion sizes. I no longer gorge on sweets. Pay attention! I eat clean. No hard fats, just olive oil sparringly. I eat lots of veg. No carbs excepts yams and brown rice. No bread. Drink plenty of water. No caffeine. Take a mulitvitamin. Train 3 days per week weight training, with cardio after (just 20 minutes). I no longer do HIIT. I have gained weight, possibly through antibiotics, and working out too hard (i.e., cortisol). Where am I going wrong?

Don't tell me to macro manage my diet. It's just not needed at this stage.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Just_Bob said:


> Mate you cant come on here and ask for advice then within an hour start saying people have their heads in the clouds. Go and get advice elsewhere. These people arent getting paid to goce you advice there sharing the knowledge and experience. Lee priest and ronnie coleman may eat sweets. But you arent either of them...


I'm grateful for the advice, I just disagree that the advice given is to macro manage my diet. I think that's sound advice for bodybuilders who want that shredded look and want to optimise their diet. I just want to lose weight. I've already downsized the portion sizes, so I must be in a deficit. Plus, I exercise so I must be losing more than I am taking in. Or, else there is something else that is going on in my body which is holding onto the fat. I don't see anything mentioning this here. I wonder why?


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## FatBob (May 13, 2013)

It doesn't matter how clean you eat but how much you eat.

judging your food by eye is not accurate.

Fish and a rice cake all day and measure the fish.


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## Dutchguy_Asia (Nov 22, 2012)

I am older as you and i did count calories. I lost loads of weight, if you are bot loosing weight your eating too much. I could loose weight on Mc Donalds if i ate less then i burned(not healthy but id loose weight). So your eating too much.

Question, how do you know your gaining or loosing weight if you don't weigh yourself.

If you worry about your gut bacteria, get some kefir. Google it i know i take it.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> i lost 4 stone in 4 months eating 2000 calories a day with 200g protein ang then used my remaining calories on whatever i wanted
> 
> im not entirely sure if you're a man or women, but if your a woman maybe something like 1500 calories a day ?


That's good advice for recommended daily calorie intake, but I'm already eating less and eating the right foods (except for the treats and the low-fat mayo). If I reduce the amount I may be putting myself more at risk of weight gain. And I cannot be eating more because I have reduced. So what is the problem?


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Yes. I did write that. I don't need to count calories. I'm already eating clean (except for the treats) and I don't eat bread, just brown rice and yams. Counting calories will probably not help me, and I may actually need to eat more food.
> 
> Of course, some people here have their head in the clouds it seems.


Which part of "It doesn't matter if you eat clean or not, it's all about the calories" do you not understand?

And you're here to ask about losing fat and yet now you're saying you need to eat more?

You're not even a very good troll. Just a cock.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

FatBob said:


> It doesn't matter how clean you eat but how much you eat.
> 
> judging your food by eye is not accurate.
> 
> Fish and a rice cake all day and measure the fish.


Well apparently not, according to some here. Even I know it's about calories in versus calories out. If I have reduced my portion sizes and exercise as well, I should be losing weight. I don't have rice cakes they contain too much salt, which can lead to water retention. I used to eat them everyday, just the plain ones.


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

My advice for you would be to weigh and write down everything for one day just to see exactly what your consuming. You may shock yourself and realise you need to adjust, if so you can eyeball adjust. If your struggling to weigh it maybe your mum can help you


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> That's good advice for recommended daily calorie intake, but I'm already eating less and eating the right foods (except for the treats and the low-fat mayo). If I reduce the amount I may be putting myself more at risk of weight gain. And I cannot be eating more because I have reduced. So what is the problem?


im confused?


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Which part of "It doesn't matter if you eat clean or not, it's all about the calories" do you not understand?
> 
> And you're here to ask about losing fat and yet now you're saying you need to eat more?
> 
> You're not even a very good troll. Just a cock.


I am here to ask how to lose weight and I'm saying that I may need to eat more if my calorie intake is too low, rather the assumption here that I'm eating too much. Please do read before commenting.


----------



## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> im confused?


Don't you get it?

Eating less food makes you fat!! :lol:


----------



## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> That's good advice for recommended daily calorie intake, but I'm already eating less and eating the right foods (except for the treats and the low-fat mayo). If I reduce the amount I may be putting myself more at risk of weight gain. And I cannot be eating more because I have reduced. So what is the problem?


But if you don't know how many calories your consuming how do you know if your having to many/to few ?

I say troll.

I'm out.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> im confused?


If I reduce calories (i.e., eat less food), how can I possibly be eating more food? The assumption here made to me is that I am eating too much. How? How am I eating too much food, if I have reduced the food portions? It makes no sense because people claim to be experts and they are not. All I want is advice but when someone says I am eating too much, and I know I am eating the right portions of food and eating quite clean, it appears to me that the advice they are giving is wrong.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

The Cheese said:


> Don't you get it?
> 
> Eating less food makes you fat!! :lol:


i thought it read like that, i just thought it must be me cos nobody could be that stupid xD


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> But if you don't know how many calories your consuming how do you know if your having to many/to few ?
> 
> I say troll.
> 
> I'm out.


The assumption here was that I was eating too much food. Clearly the advice was wrong. That's my only "gripe".


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> i thought it read like that, i just thought it must be me cos nobody could be that stupid xD


Eating less food drastically could lead to weight gain. I know that much. The body goes into starvation mode, or even a pre-diabetic state. My doctor warned me about the latter, and just said so as long as you reduce your potions sizes to the size of the palm of your hand, and eat frequently throughout the day, you should not be at risk of diabetes.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> The assumption here was that I was eating too much food. Clearly the advice was wrong. That's my only "gripe".


if u want to lose weight eat less food than you are now if you are gaining, 2000 a day is a good start. simple


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> Eating less food drastically could lead to weight gain. I know that much. The body goes into starvation mode, or even a pre-diabetic state. My doctor warned me about the latter, and just said so as long as you reduce your potions sizes to the size of the palm of your hand, and eat frequently throughout the day, you should not be at risk of diabetes.


stop watching secret eaters, its full of sh1t like that you just spouted


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> The assumption here was that I was eating too much food. Clearly the advice was wrong. That's my only "gripe".


If you are not losing fat, you are eating too much. It doesn't matter what the food is - you are eating too much of it.

Let me put it another way - YOU ARE EATING TOO MANY CALORIES.

If you really aren't a troll, you have the worst knowledge of nutrition I've seen on any BB forum.

Go away, learn something and then come back when you have the basics down.

In the meantime, you're just making yourself look like a f*ckwit.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

So the best advice so far is eat less? I don't think so. Count calories (which will determine whether I am eating more or less). Possibly? What if I am eating optimal calories and in a sufficient calorie deficit? What next? Cut out sugar? I've tried that and I have reduced it a lot. But I need to keep sanity. So what else? Advice anyone?


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> So what else? Advice anyone?


Car and hosepipe might just work.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> If you are not losing fat, you are eating too much. It doesn't matter what the food is - you are eating too much of it.
> 
> Let me put it another way - YOU ARE EATING TOO MANY CALORIES.
> 
> ...


You are wrong! Eating less doesn't guarantee weight loss! Weight gain can be attributed to the body holding onto fat through severe calorie restriction, long term use of antibiotics, metabolic syndromes (the fat burning machanism has been "switched off"), and oestrogen.

I'm no expert but even I know that eating less does not necessarily guarantee weight loss. Not everything is black and white.


----------



## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> So the best advice so far is eat less? I don't think so. Count calories (which will determine whether I am eating more or less). Possibly? What if I am eating optimal calories and in a sufficient calorie deficit? What next? Cut out sugar? I've tried that and I have reduced it a lot. But I need to keep sanity. So what else? Advice anyone?


if you are in a sufficient calorie defecit you will lose weight regardless of sugar


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Car and hosepipe might just work.


That's not necessary. I don't think your knowledge of nutrition is really good. You suggest I am eating too much. I don't accept that. You say it doesn't matter what the food is. I don't accept that. You are no expert by any standard.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> if you are in a sufficient calorie defecit you will lose weight regardless of sugar


That is exactly what I was thinking. I no sugar is bad but I can surely have my sweets. And they are homemade so there's no added salts. If I use sugar, and it is very rare, it will be stevia or unrefined unprocessed sugar from the health shop. So I've cut out those commercially made sweets, which I know are not good.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi can I have advice please?............YOU'RE ALL WRONG!!!!

Another penis joins UKM,brilliant.

Oh and eat less.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

I would say my diet has been completely overhauled. I'm doing everything right, apart from cutting out sweets completely and not counting calories. The reason I don't see the point in counting calories is because a reduction in portion size and eating clean, plus exercise, should be sufficient to kick start the fat burning process: calories in versus calories out. I've cut out caffeine completely because this was causing havoc with my insulin and cortisol. Perhaps that is the problem? Don't see anyone mentioning here though.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

GolfDelta said:


> Hi can I have advice please?............YOU'RE ALL WRONG!!!!
> 
> Another penis joins UKM,brilliant.
> 
> Oh and eat less.


I didn't say "all". I think pot calling kettle comes to mind...


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> You are wrong! Eating less doesn't guarantee weight loss! Weight gain can be attributed to the body holding onto fat through severe calorie restriction, long term use of antibiotics, metabolic syndromes (the fat burning machanism has been "switched off"), and oestrogen.
> 
> I'm no expert but even I know that eating less does not necessarily guarantee weight loss. Not everything is black and white.


Total and utter absolute bollocks.

There is no such thing as "starvation mode".

Metabolism may slow down in a calorie deficit but the body still needs food to supply it with fuel so it can function. It's not going to use that fuel to store for fat when it needs it for more important things. Estrogen doesn't matter - if the body needs fuel to function it will use fuel to function.

A dieter may sometimes "plateau" as the body takes a couple of days to adjust to a deficit and when it gets to a point where it doesn't want to give up it's fat storage. In this case though, another quick calorie drop will kickstart a loss again.

But eating at a deficit can actually add weight?

Which planet are you on? You're clueless.


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

OK

Seriously.

fat loss is ONLY calories in vs calories out.

If you massively reduce calories (1200 or less) then you will hold on to fat, BUT you will still lose weight. Fat is MORE important to your body than muscle - it is critical to the production of a number of key hormones and also to ALL neurological function. but none the less you will still lose weight.

Metabolic syndrome / Insulin resistance will also cause you to store fat more efficiently than other people, however less calories in than you use = weight loss.

Also yes some antibiotics may upset metabolism, the above equation still stands. Ignore the bullshit about antibiotics in the chicken, the levels are so low in eth meat as to be irrelevant. And will have zero effect on your weight loss.

How can I be sure of this?

I am Insulin resistant

However in 20 months of diet and training over 2 tears (4-5 months lost through injury) I have lost 34 Kg of fat, gaines 13 Kg of muscle and how have I dont this?

Other than a little chemical assistance latterly, it was calories in vs calories out.

If you are training and storing fat, you are eating too much, that is it. End of story.

I fooled myself that I was eating correctly, and training correctly and had the same as you. Once I actually looked at my diet properly and worked out what I actually needed to eat to lose, I was shocked how little it initially seemed compared to what I used to eat. However is all easy now, and I am still losing fat.

I will have a six pack within 3 months, along with a 46 inch chest, 18inch arms and neck, 32 inch waist and 28 inch quads, weighing in at 14 1/2 stone, compared to a blubbery mass 2 yeas ago with a gut resting half way doen my legs when I sat down.

Oh and I'm 47.

Dont kid yourself that there is something mystical making you put fat on, there isn't. If you insist that there is then you are clearly delusional and I would suggest to everyone on this thread:


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Meanwhile in the real world....

It's a lovely sunny day & a Bank Holiday weekend...so fvck the diet, let's all go out tonite & get bladdered!

:lol:


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> I would say my diet has been completely overhauled. I'm doing everything right, apart from cutting out sweets completely and not counting calories. The reason I don't see the point in counting calories is because a reduction in portion size and eating clean, plus exercise, should be sufficient to kick start the fat burning process: calories in versus calories out. I've cut out caffeine completely because this was causing havoc with my insulin and cortisol. Perhaps that is the problem? Don't see anyone mentioning here though.


counting calories is the best way, otherwise you're going to over/under estimate what you've eaten


----------



## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Last try.

If you were consuming 3500 calories before (an example) and you've cut your portion sizes and rubbish (sweets) out, and your now consuming 2500 calories (-1000 calories). If your maintenance is 2200 calories your not gonna lose weight.

If your not a troll just count your calories for 1 week and see how many your consuming.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> OK
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> ...


If you reduce calories (massively) I will not lose weight. I will gain weight because a massive reduction in calories will not keep my metabolism ticking over, and the body will hold onto fat as a survival mechanism. I learned this in pyschology believe it or not. The body holds onto fat when you massively restrict calories. Eventually, you put yourself in a pre-diabetic state.

This is for the troll who said there's no such thing as "starvation mode":

http://io9.com/5941883/how-your-body-fights-to-keep-you-alive-when-youre-starving


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> Last try.
> 
> If you were consuming 3500 calories before (an example) and you've cut your portion sizes and rubbish (sweets) out, and your now consuming 2500 calories (-1000 calories). If your maintenance is 2200 calories your not gonna lose weight.
> 
> If your not a troll just count your calories for 1 week and see how many your consuming.


I will do just that. I will try your experiment but I don't see what much good it will do. Crazy finding myself eating less than I do now, especially since I've been told that I might be not eating enough. I still think my diet is not the issue though. I might be wrong, but I think the antibiotics coupled with the high cortisol might be the culprit.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> counting calories is the best way, otherwise you're going to over/under estimate what you've eaten


It's no guarantee though. If I have an underlying problem with why my body is holding onto fat no matter what I eat I am not likely to lose weight.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for everyone's advice. And thankyou especially to the "experts" and the trolls. lol.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> It's no guarantee though. If I have an underlying problem with why my body is holding onto fat no matter what I eat I am not likely to lose weight.


you dont have an issue thats just what obese people say and then think they have done good when they lose weight from a gastric band


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/13379-timed-carbs.html

Read that

You are coming across as an absolute dumbar*s*e trying to look like an absolute genius


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> This is for the troll who said there's no such thing as "starvation mode":
> 
> http://io9.com/5941883/how-your-body-fights-to-keep-you-alive-when-youre-starving


LMAO. What a load of bollocks. Try finding a scientific paper which shows that starvation mode exists. Your metabolism slows down but you still need fuel to keep the body functioning. It will NOT store that fuel as fat when it needs it to function with. You do NOT get fat on a calorie deficit.

Oh sorry. I forgot about all those plump, porky Ethiopians dying in that famine in the 80s. :lol:


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## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

I got to page 2 and I literally can't read on. This is painful


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> LMAO. What a load of bollocks. Try finding a scientific paper which shows that starvation mode exists. Your metabolism slows down but you still need fuel to keep the body functioning. It will NOT store that fuel as fat when it needs it to function with. You do NOT get fat on a calorie deficit.
> 
> Oh sorry. I forgot about all those plump, porky Ethiopians dying in that famine in the 80s. :lol:


they av got big bellies tho


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> they av got big bellies tho


Interesting fact to that: It's the lack of protein that causes that. Called Kwashiorkor disease.

Make sure you get your shake in today or you're next.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

The last post you made on Starvation finished me off!


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> Interesting fact to that: It's the lack of protein that causes that. Called Kwashiorkor disease.
> 
> Make sure you get your shake in today or you're next.


I DID NOT KNOW THAT.


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> I'm not here to make an impression. lol. I'm here to get some perspective on my weight gain problem. Out of interest, what do you do for a living? You sound too dismissive of people. *I'm a pyschologist student*, so what do you do for a living?


Really mate? REALLY?

Course you are :whistling:


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## Jason88 (Mar 24, 2013)

Read about 2 pages just sounded like alot of excuses not to eat right, maybe i miss read idk


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

@dtlv, what do you make of the ops dilemma?


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Op did you bother to read diggyv's entire post? Some foods junk or otherwise can be small in size yet calorificaly dense , food given to artic travellers spring to mind. So in this scenario you think oh my portions tiny I must loose weight when ur ramming massive amounts of calories in. This leads me to my next point if your body needs 2000 cals to maintain your weight and you eat 2001 and aren't active enough to burn that extra cal then you'll gain weight. You're weight training maybe your heavier due to gain muscles, belly fat takes an age to come off.

Eat 3000 cals of celery nothing else do no exercise and I'm sure you'll gain weight.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> If you reduce calories (massively) I will not lose weight. I will gain weight because a massive reduction in calories will not keep my metabolism ticking over, and the body will hold onto fat as a survival mechanism. I learned this in pyschology believe it or not. The body holds onto fat when you massively restrict calories. Eventually, you put yourself in a pre-diabetic state.
> 
> This is for the troll who said there's no such thing as "starvation mode":
> 
> http://io9.com/5941883/how-your-body-fights-to-keep-you-alive-when-youre-starving


I`m living proof you can reduce calories massively, lose weight and lose fat, your text books are wrong pal.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> , but I think the antibiotics coupled with the high cortisol might be the culprit.


did I not say earlier - your over analysing everything and looking for a reason other than lack of will power for your failure


----------



## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

Humm lots of advice and thoughts for the op but i guess once u believe something has caused u an issue for weight gain its hard to let go of those thoughys. i used to beleive in having excess cortisol ex but with out bloods done had nothing to back it up so i stopped blaming one thing or another liaterned to people and restructured a new plan of attac. my weight can rocket if i let it or i can drop it consistantly. both takes hard work and a strick approach

and i firmly believe that if trainning diet and rest are not insink than i am just putting a half ****d effort in and will not get the results i want. what ever u do goos luck. from a once fat ****er to a leaner fitter chap


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## oldskoolcool (Oct 4, 2009)

Eat less move more simple as that.


----------



## sigarner (Mar 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> I'm trying find out why I'm doing it wrong, or whether the advice I am getting is the right advice. So far I see that the advice is just wrong or not applicable. I'm a beginner but I am not stupid.


1. You need to know how many calories are in your food. For example you could have a small burger from McDonalds yet it's full of calories. On your logic as it is only small you'll lose weight - in reality you won't.

2. Troll


----------



## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

Martynbla said:


> Yes. I did write that. I don't need to count calories.* I'm already eating clean (except for the treats)* and I don't eat bread, just brown rice and yams. I eat lean protein. Plenty of vegs. Reduced portion sizes, the amount that I am told by experts is good for weight loss. Why do I need to count calories? I don't. I'm already doing what needs to be done to lose weight. Counting calories will probably not help me, and I may actually need to eat more food.
> 
> Of course, some people here have their head in the clouds it seems. lol.


so you aren't eating clean then lol?


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> did I not say earlier - your over analysing everything and looking for a reason other than lack of will power for your failure


Yes, and you were wrong then as you are now. They are not reasons.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

KRSOne said:


> so you aren't eating clean then lol?


Not 100%. I'm not a bodybuilder. I'm sick of telling people that. The education level on here is poor. I just want to lose weight.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

sigarner said:


> 1. You need to know how many calories are in your food. For example you could have a small burger from McDonalds yet it's full of calories. On your logic as it is only small you'll lose weight - in reality you won't.
> 
> 2. Troll


I don't eat at Mcdonalds. My burger would be quorn on a wholemeal role. No cheese. No relish. Maybe some lettuce and onion. I'm sure I could eat that without guilt since my other meals would be just as clean as that. If it is small and clean you will lose weight. That's my logic. What's yours?


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

oldskoolcool said:


> Eat less move more simple as that.


I've been doing just that and it has made me gain weight.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

klint37 said:


> Humm lots of advice and thoughts for the op but i guess once u believe something has caused u an issue for weight gain its hard to let go of those thoughys. i used to beleive in having excess cortisol ex but with out bloods done had nothing to back it up so i stopped blaming one thing or another liaterned to people and restructured a new plan of attac. my weight can rocket if i let it or i can drop it consistantly. both takes hard work and a strick approach
> 
> and i firmly believe that if trainning diet and rest are not insink than i am just putting a half ****d effort in and will not get the results i want. what ever u do goos luck. from a once fat ****er to a leaner fitter chap


Lots of bad advice more like. One or two have given good advice and I've taken it on-board. Some people here believe that they are "experts" but I think they are displaying the classic signs of inflated egos and the "if it works for me, it must work for you too". That deterministic world-view is not an expert view by any means.


----------



## sigarner (Mar 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> I don't eat at Mcdonalds. My burger would be quorn on a wholemeal role. No cheese. No relish. Maybe some lettuce and onion. I'm sure I could eat that without guilt since my other meals would be just as clean as that. If it is small and clean you will lose weight. That's my logic. What's yours?


No you won't if you're having more calories than you need. You can eat as small as you want but if there are too many calories you might as well not bother, you'll just stay the same weight. You want my logic? You say you're fat, well you're doing something wrong.


----------



## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I don't eat at Mcdonalds. My burger would be quorn on a wholemeal role. No cheese. No relish. Maybe some lettuce and onion. I'm sure I could eat that without guilt since my other meals would be just as clean as that. If it is small and clean you will lose weight. That's my logic. What's yours?


If its small and clean but over your maintenance then you WON'T lose weight.

As said, you can eat nothing but apple crumble and lose weight or eat nothing but apples and gain weight.

It's all about calories, and if you don't know your calories consumed/body weight then how do you know your maintaince ?


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> I`m living proof you can reduce calories massively, lose weight and lose fat, your text books are wrong pal.


You cannot. Your body will just hold onto fat with such massive calorie restiction. It would simply shut the metabolism down. That means you won't burn fat, at least not efficiently as it should. And you could be at risk of pre-diabetes as in metabolic syndromes it all goes to the stomach and waist.


----------



## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> If its small and clean but over your maintenance then you WON'T lose weight.
> 
> As said, you can eat nothing but apple crumble and lose weight or eat nothing but apples and gain weight.
> 
> It's all about calories, and if you don't know your calories consumed/body weight then how do you know your maintaince ?


I'm putting on a visceral feeling, but I might be undereating, which means my body could be holding onto fat. And what is the first thing I read? "You're eating too much!"

Such great expert advice. lol. It's like that myth that muscle will turn to fat. It goes-on. Experts indeed!


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> You cannot. Your body will just hold onto fat with such massive calorie restiction. It would simply shut the metabolism down. That means you won't burn fat, at least not efficiently as it should. And you could be at risk of pre-diabetes as in metabolic syndromes it all goes to the stomach and waist.


How can you say somebody is wrong when they've done it and lost the fat as I have, I wouldn't do it again or recommend it but it does work. Just takes a load of muscle with it and messes other things up to.

"Hello can you help me? but I already know everything so ill just show off a bit"


----------



## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Lots of bad advice more like. One or two have given good advice and I've taken it on-board. Some people here believe that they are "experts" but I think they are displaying the classic signs of inflated egos and the "if it works for me, it must work for you too". That deterministic world-view is not an expert view by any means.


It's not a case of "if it works for me" !

It works for all humans (animals), its a scientific fact. It's how weight watchers/slim fast/cabbage diet/any diet works, consume less calories than you use you will lose weight.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Jason88 said:


> Read about 2 pages just sounded like alot of excuses not to eat right, maybe i miss read idk


I think you just read the "You're not eating right" replies and not the "I'm eating clean (apart from the odd treat)". lol.


----------



## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I'm putting on a visceral feeling, but I might be undereating, which means my body could be holding onto fat. And what is the first thing I read? "You're eating too much!"
> 
> Such great expert advice. lol. It's like that myth that muscle will turn to fat. It goes-on. Experts indeed!


LISTEN

We're not saying your eating to much. We're saying you don't know HOW MUCH your eating !

And without knowing how many calories your consuming how do you know if your eating too much/little.

And unless we know your height/weight we can't say how much you should be eating.


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## sigarner (Mar 26, 2013)

Mez said:


> LISTEN
> 
> We're not saying your eating to much. We're saying you don't know HOW MUCH your eating !
> 
> ...


This.

I'm bored of this guy now, he asks for help and then won't listen. Enjoy being fat is all I can think of to say now.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> It's not a case of "if it works for me" !
> 
> It works for all humans (animals), its a scientific fact. It's how weight watchers/slim fast/cabbage diet/any diet works, consume less calories than you use you will lose weight.


That's not what is being said here. What is being said here is massive calorie restriction=weight loss. That "fact" should go in the dustbin of history along with "muslce turns to fat". The case of Cornaro is a classic example of stupidity: he believed that his meagre diet was the key to a long life. He forgot that others on his diet would simply run themselves into the ground.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

sigarner said:


> This.
> 
> I'm bored of this guy now, he asks for help and then won't listen. Enjoy being fat is all I can think of to say now.


I asked for help and I listened only to those who gave good advice. I won't miss another "expert".


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## sigarner (Mar 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> I asked for help and I listened only to those who gave good advice. I won't miss another "expert".


So exactly what have you listened to? Yourself doesn't count.


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

As I've already stated and others have alluded to it , food can be small in size but packed full of calories so your eye method of gauging what you eat is flawed.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> LISTEN
> 
> We're not saying your eating to much. We're saying you don't know HOW MUCH your eating !
> 
> ...


I must have missed something. The notion was that I was eating too much. Another poster said that I needed to eat less. Another poster gave me some scientific twaddle about eating less and moving more. I know now that I need to know how many calories I am consuming but I no for sure that I am not over-eating, as many people have suggested.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

OP, all you've done so far is dismiss everyone's suggestions. Most of the people on here know how to lose fat. Obviously your methods arent working so why don't you listen to the advice and try calorie counting for a month, see what happens?

What's a month out of your life? If your not going to listen then just stop trolling the board and seek advice from elsewhere. After all, in your opinion, we're no experts.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I asked for help and I listened only to those who gave advice I agreed with. I won't miss another "expert".


Yet another new member posting when they ready know everything. This week must have set a new record.


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## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I must have missed something. The notion was that I was eating too much. Another poster said that I needed to eat less. Another poster gave me some scientific twaddle about eating less and moving more. I know now that I need to know how many calories I am consuming but I no for sure that I am not over-eating, as many people have suggested.


To lose weight you need to consume just under your maintainance(wish I could spell that right) by about 300-500 calories, but unless you work out your maintainance and how much your consuming (in calories or macros) how can you do this.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

phoenix1980 said:


> As I've already stated and others have alluded to it , food can be small in size but packed full of calories so your eye method of gauging what you eat is flawed.


I am aware of that. But what can be more healthy than eating clean? I eat clean (apart from the odd treat). What more can I do? Count calories? Really? I'm possibly already in calorie deficit and a massive restriction of calories would see me eating less. I already eat small portions of clean food. What else? All I hear is "You're eating too much!" It's bad advice. I want good advice.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mez said:


> To lose weight you need to consume just under your maintainance(wish I could spell that right) by about 300-500 calories, but unless you work out your maintainance and how much your consuming (in calories or macros) how can you do this.


I know that. But I believe that I may not be eating enough food rather than too much. But the advice I get is that I need to eat less. This is disastrous advice. It is the case of Cornaro.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

sigarner said:


> So exactly what have you listened to? Yourself doesn't count.


That I need to determine whether I am eating under or not. But I feel that I may be eating under not over. I eat clean-ish and I eat small portions. I have gained wight. Before I eat larger portions without much weight gain. So what gives? Move more? My doctor has warned me not to do too much execise and not to do it for shorter periods. So "move more" is yet more bad advice. I'm looking for experts and they are very few here.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Have you had your thyroid checked?


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Kimball said:


> Yet another new member posting when they ready know everything. This week must have set a new record.


I recognise bad advice when I see it. It's not just bad advice. People just don't read and they come here and slander. Read before posting. It's simple.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> I am aware of that. But what can be more healthy than eating clean? I eat clean (apart from the odd treat). What more can I do? Count calories? Really? I'm possibly already in calorie deficit and a massive restriction of calories would see me eating less. I already eat small portions of clean food. What else? All I hear is "You're eating too much!" It's bad advice. I want good advice.


The thing is Martyn you dont seem to be listening, most of the guys replied on here have already answered your question you just dont seem to want to believe it.

You have got this notion in your head its the chicken making you fat which is (And I say this with no disrespect) absolute bull****!!!

If you are still gaining weight, You have to be eating too much that is the top and bottom of it, no if's or but's.

Measure your intakes, cals, fats, proteins everything you can to give yourself an idea of where you are going wrong.

Post up an entire days worth of numbers and have a look, you will undoubtedly see where you are going wrong. Regardless of small portions it depends entirely what is in them.


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## sigarner (Mar 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> That I need to determine whether I am eating under or not. But I feel that I may be eating under not over. I eat clean-ish and I eat small portions. I have gained wight. Before I eat larger portions without much weight gain. So what gives? Move more? My doctor has warned me not to do too much execise and not to do it for shorter periods. So "move more" is yet more bad advice. I'm looking for experts and they are very few here.


Well you're doing something wrong. What do you drink?


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Count your cals what have you got to lose ?? Work out what your body needs then record your cals honestly for a few days. You maybe surprised at what you find, you may find your massively under fed which is a prob you may find your over maintenance causing u to put on weight or you may find your spot on in which case you can score this variable off the list.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

PaulB said:


> Have you had your thyroid checked?


Yes. But an expert at Liverpool college said that thyroid tests are not 100% and that I may need to have multiple tests to get a good reading. I only had two tests and they came back as negative. I had lipoid tests and they came back negative. I got my cortisol testsed and that came back positive.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

phoenix1980 said:


> Count your cals what have you got to lose ?? Work out what your body needs then record your cals honestly for a few days. You maybe surprised at what you find, you may find your massively under fed which is a prob you may find your over maintenance causing u to put on weight or you may find your spot on in which case you can score this variable off the list.


I may have to do that. I just don't think I need to eat less considering I've already reduced portion sizes and I'm exercising whereas years back I would eat three times that much and do no exercise and not gain an ounce of fat. I suspect that I am under-eating, so I may need to increase my portion sizes. Or, maybe my cortisol issue is the real problem.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> Yes. But an expert at Liverpool college said that thyroid tests are not 100% and that I may need to have multiple tests to get a good reading. I only had two tests and they came back as negative. I had lipoid tests and they came back negative. I got my cortisol testsed and that came back positive.


What about insulin, all ok? Sorry if you've already said.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

sigarner said:


> Well you're doing something wrong. What do you drink?


According to some here I'm over-eating and not doing enough exercise. If I took that advice I would end up like Cornaro's patients (i.e. dead).


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> According to some here I'm over-eating and not doing enough exercise. If I took that advice I would end up like Cornaro's patients (i.e. dead).


I seriously doubt that!


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

PaulB said:


> What about insulin, all ok? Sorry if you've already said.


Blood sugars have been tested and are normal. But recently I saw a programe of someone getting tested for blood sugars. They were gievn a sugary drink before the test. I was never given a sugary drink and I was tested on an over night fast. Apparently, the over night fast method is not the most accurate. You doctor needs to see what happens in the body when sugar is taken. So I don't know what my insulin levels are truly like.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Dave said:


> I seriously doubt that!


It's called exhaustion. It's called adrenal fatigue. It can kill you.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Dave said:


> The thing is Martyn you dont seem to be listening, most of the guys replied on here have already answered your question you just dont seem to want to believe it.
> 
> You have got this notion in your head its the chicken making you fat which is (And I say this with no disrespect) absolute bull****!!!
> 
> ...


Another "expert" who replies without reading properly. I didn't say that chicken made me fat. I said that the anitbiotics used in intensive farming of chicken - chicken i consume almost everyday - may have contributed to weight gain. I've already responded to the "you're eating too much" spiel. I won't bother explaining.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> It's called exhaustion. It's called adrenal fatigue. It can kill you.


So can getting run over by a bus but you dont go and do that on purpose do you?

Steady cardio


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> Another expert who replies without reading properly.


And the guy who is trying to loose weight drinking cocoa and having apple pie with custard is the expert here?

Give it a rest, excuse after excuse. You cant help someone that doesnt want to be helped!

You keep blaming that chicken pal :thumb:


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> Blood sugars have been tested and are normal. But recently I saw a programe of someone getting tested for blood sugars. They were gievn a sugary drink before the test. I was never given a sugary drink and I was tested on an over night fast. Apparently, the over night fast method is not the most accurate. You doctor needs to see what happens in the body when sugar is taken. So I don't know what my insulin levels are truly like.


So you may already know that insulin resistance can cause you to hold onto and gain weight. Maybe have it checked again?

Have you tried Keto?


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Your body will just hold onto fat with such massive calorie restiction. It would simply shut the metabolism down. That means you won't burn fat, at least not efficiently as it should.


Wrong yet again. Yet another statement which shows you know nothing about the subject in hand.

The body *never* shuts the metabolism down. The metabolism is *always* working away. In the case of starvation victims it may *reduce* but even then it functions at over 50% capacity. Starvation victims lose fat. They don't gain it. It's basic human function which is not up for argument. It is a *fact*

For an obese person on a calorie deficit, even a huge one, you are *never, never, never* going to come close to shutting down your metabolism. Period.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Dave said:


> And the guy who is trying to loose weight drinking cocoa and having apple pie with custard is the expert here?
> 
> Give it a rest, excuse after excuse. You cant help someone that doesnt want to be helped!
> 
> You keep blaming that chicken pal :thumb:


The cocoa is the Dukan low-fat organic cocoa. It replaces all those chocolate bars I used to ear. I'd say it is a smart move. Apple crumble! Not apple pie! The apple crumble is homemade and is therefore healthier: no added sugars, no added salt, healthy apples, and low-fat custard. I won't put myself through pyschological hell. I';d like to keep my sanity, so a little something sweet is perfectly okay. Just ask Lee Priest! But you are the expert, aren't you?


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Martynbla said:


> The cocoa is the Dukan low-fat organic cocoa. It replaces all those chocolate bars I used to ear. I'd say it is a smart move. *Apple crumble! Not apple pie! *The apple crumble is homemade and is therefore healthier: no added sugars, no added salt, healthy apples, and low-fat custard. I won't put myself through pyschological hell. I';d like to keep my sanity, so a little something sweet is perfectly okay. Just ask Lee Priest! But you are the expert, aren't you?


Oh all the better then :lol:

Ill get your coat!


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Here you go OP:










Stick to your guns. 20 or 30 portions a day should soon have you skinnier than Kate Moss.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Martynbla said:


> The cocoa is the Dukan low-fat organic cocoa. It replaces all those chocolate bars I used to ear. I'd say it is a smart move. Apple crumble! Not apple pie! The apple crumble is homemade and is therefore healthier: no added sugars, no added salt, healthy apples, and low-fat custard. I won't put myself through pyschological hell. I';d like to keep my sanity, so a little something sweet is perfectly okay.* Just ask Lee Priest!* But you are the expert, aren't you?


Mate, you're not Lee Priest. Everyone is different, you can't compare yourself to anyone else. He will be up to his eye balls in peds and in condition. I'll ask you again, have you tried Keto? I personally think you could be insulin resistant.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Wrong yet again. Yet another statement which shows you know nothing about the subject in hand.
> 
> The body *never* shuts the metabolism down. The metabolism is *always* working away. In the case of starvation victims it may *reduce* but even then it functions at over 50% capacity. Starvation victims lose fat. They don't gain it. It's basic human function which is not up for argument. It is a *fact*
> 
> For an obese person on a calorie deficit, even a huge one, you are *never, never, never* going to come close to shutting down your metabolism. Period.


Food regulates the metabolism; it keeps it 'ticking over'. When you severely restrict calories you go into ketosis. You are supposed to lose weight in ketosis, but in fact you could be at risk of putting yourself in a pre-diabetic state or a metabolic syndrome. When you don't get enough food, insulin levels go chronically low and the system may even shut down, it no longer produces insulin. Cortisol increases which leads to weight gain because the fat stores have shut down as a response, eventually with the increase of cortisol in over production, that shuts down too! Add in all these factors and you have a classic case of metabolic syndrome. You will not lose weight; you will likely gain weight and then hold onto it because the system is not running. If the car doesn't go it doesn't burn-off the gas.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

I presume that you're aware you are coming across as an incredibly arrogant know it all bellend? Is this just your Internet persona or don't you have any friends in real life either.

Why people are trying to help you I have absolutely no idea! And if you would go insane from not eating apple crumble then I can tell you two things without being an expert;

1 you will be fat all your life, who cares?

2 you need clinical help not diet advice.


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2013)

right measure what you eat keep a diary for a week, adjust to needs, otherwise give up.


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> I'm being told that the chicken I am eating contains antibiotics which are making me fat.


learning something new everyday :lol:


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Think the op is suffering from a case of being unable to see the forest for the trees, over analysing and head burying.


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## bigpit (Dec 2, 2009)

well that's 20 minutes of my life that i'll never get back.... :blink:


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

BetterThanYou said:


> learning something new everyday :lol:


You obviously don't keep up to date with the latest news. You're probably still stuck in the 70s.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

Dave said:


> So can getting run over by a bus but you dont go and do that on purpose do you


That's irrelevent.


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

@Milky get your troll badge out.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

HAVE YOU TRIED KETO? Answer the god damn question!! :cursing:

Seems to me you only want to goad everyone.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

OP,

your coming across as a complete tit TBH.

NO ONE ON GIDS DEAR EARTH ADVOCATES APPLE CRUMBLE AND CUSTARD IN A DIET.

NOW, either listen, be polite and take some notice or go away, not difficult really :thumbup1:


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

PaulB said:


> HAVE YOU TRIED KETO? Answer the god damn question!! :cursing:
> 
> Seems to me you only want to goad everyone.


Taken this "

You are supposed to lose weight in ketosis, but in fact you could be at risk of putting yourself in a pre-diabetic state or a metabolic syndrome."

From his post on page 11 I think he'd be to scared to try keto.


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## Trapps84 (Oct 26, 2011)

Milky said:


> OP,
> 
> your coming across as a complete tit TBH.
> 
> ...


I do ... Cheat meal


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> Yes, and you were wrong then as you are now. They are not reasons.


the only person wrong on this thread is you fella - I saw a programme once where some fella was wrong (I think it was an old episode of Bullseye) therefore you are also wrong based on your own warped logic.

your a troll - end off.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Trapps84 said:


> I do ... Cheat meal


Yep, knew one tw*t would bring up cheat meals :lol:

I am talking as a staple tho mate, if it was then trust me, l would be on it like a car bonnet.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

PaulB said:


> HAVE YOU TRIED KETO? Answer the god damn question!! :cursing:
> 
> Seems to me you only want to goad everyone.


Yes. I was warned against Ketosis diets because of the potential for ketoacidosis.


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## Trapps84 (Oct 26, 2011)

Milky said:


> Yep, knew one tw*t would bring up cheat meals :lol:
> 
> I am talking as a staple tho mate, if it was then trust me, l would be on it like a car bonnet.


Lol


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> the only person wrong on this thread is you fella - I saw a programme once where some fella was wrong (I think it was an old episode of Bullseye) therefore you are also wrong based on your own warped logic.
> 
> Have you seen a doctor about your mental as well as physical health?


That's a strawman argument you've made there. Classy. :thumbup1:


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

phoenix1980 said:


> Taken this "
> 
> You are supposed to lose weight in ketosis, but in fact you could be at risk of putting yourself in a pre-diabetic state or a metabolic syndrome."
> 
> From his post on page 11 I think he'd be to scared to try keto.


I took that post as more him trying to rebut Mr cheeses post. Apple crumble and custard it is then :laugh:


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> You obviously don't keep up to date with the latest news. You're probably still stuck in the 70s.


Well, at least I'm looking better than you.


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

13 pages and no conclusion. :death:


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Martynbla said:


> Yes. I was warned against Ketosis diets because of the potential for ketoacidosis.


Your living in fear aren't you, is your house covered in tin foil to stop dem rays getting you??


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

BetterThanYou said:


> Well, at least I'm looking better than you.


Anymore logical fallacies? I can take them all! :blowme:


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Martynbla said:


> You cannot. Your body will just hold onto fat with such massive calorie restiction. It would simply shut the metabolism down. That means you won't burn fat, at least not efficiently as it should. And you could be at risk of pre-diabetes as in metabolic syndromes it all goes to the stomach and waist.


but, I did so do you want the pictures or do you accept the rest of the forum saw me do it in real time late last year?

calling you out fella


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

phoenix1980 said:


> Your living in fear aren't you, is your house covered in tin foil to stop dem rays getting you??


Yes I do have a house covered in tin foil...it is used to keep out body-damaging bodybuilding myths.


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## wigan206 (Sep 9, 2012)

saxondale said:


> but, I did so do you want the pictures or do you accept the rest of the forum saw me do it in real time late last year?
> 
> calling you out fella


Pictures mean nothing. Show me a picture of a bearded man in the sky, I still won't believe it.


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Look at what @dutch_scott did for that tv show, op go do a search on Dutch Scott but I'm sure you'll come back saying it ain't possible.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Closed.

OP you are not willing to listen or accept any advice and continue to insult people.

Anymore and l will ban you, quite simple really.


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