# Hang on a minute - are we actually overdoing it?



## hmgs (Jul 25, 2013)

I think Jeff Nippard is suggesting we are… what do you reckon? I’d like to think “less is more” - but this sounds too good a return for suggested input effort.


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## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

I train low volume high intensity. Great results from it. Nothing fancy, focus mostly on compounds. Not in gym for long periods of time and no fkin about with junk volume


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## Weight-a-minute! (3 mo ago)

I haven't a clue what he's talking about

2 sets per muscle group, 3 times a week, throw in a few squats as well. That's me, for now.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Lower weights and higher volumes are easier on your body. You'll pick up less injuries most of the time.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

hmgs said:


> I think Jeff Nippard is suggesting we are… what do you reckon? I’d like to think “less is more” - but this sounds too good a return for suggested input effort.


Nah.

So many variables that it's pointless making proclamation like this. And let's be honest, we know most are completely under doing it.

Very few actually train "hard" or near failure. Or with consistency. Or good form. Or a good split. Or a good diet. Or adequate recovery.

Just do what works until it doesn't. Switch things up. Rinse and repeat.

People who can train like that are people who can put a legitimate 100% and leave nothing behind with every rep.

A bad night's sleep would make that improbable.


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## hmgs (Jul 25, 2013)

simonboyle said:


> Nah.
> 
> So many variables that it's pointless making proclamation like this. And let's be honest, we know most are completely under doing it.
> 
> ...


Well _S.A.I.D… 😉_


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

hmgs said:


> Well _S.A.I.D… 😉_


Why is your emoji italicised?


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

simonboyle said:


> Nah.
> Very few actually train "hard" or near failure. Or with consistency. Or good form. Or a good split. Or a good diet. Or adequate recovery.


Well isn't that the truth , most people think they train hard when they clearly do not . Far from it . Some people don't actually know the meaning of the word failure . Yet take steroids to compensate for their shit training then wonder why they still can't grow . More than one way to skin a cat . I do high volume and low volume both work very well . Also It's very hard to over train in my opinion . Long as sleep is enough and eating enough and training plan isn't trash you can respond to either .


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

gymaddict1986 said:


> Well isn't that the truth , most people think they train hard when they clearly do not . Far from it . Some people don't actually know the meaning of the word failure . Yet take steroids to compensate for their shit training then wonder why they still can't grow . More than one way to skin a cat . I do high volume and low volume both work very well . Also It's very hard to over train in my opinion . Long as sleep is enough and eating enough and training plan isn't trash you can respond to either .


Failure to most people is "a last very difficult rep", very rarely actual failure. Even then when many fail it's due to being a wet lettuce and not mustering absolutely everything they have. 

Most people would find a new level of tenacity with a gun to their head / a £1000 prize for another 2 reps. 

Same with AMRAP sets, I'd guess most are 20+% away and stop when things get a little miserable, especially things like squats or big compounds.


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Oioi said:


> Failure to most people is "a last very difficult rep", very rarely actual failure. Even then when many fail it's due to being a wet lettuce and not mustering absolutely everything they have.
> 
> Most people would find a new level of tenacity with a gun to their head / a £1000 prize for another 2 reps.
> 
> Same with AMRAP sets, I'd guess most are 20+% away and stop when things get a little miserable, especially things like squats or big compounds.


Unfortunately that is the case mate yes . I just don't see the point if not going to give it 100 percent . Admittedly the only thing I won't go to failure on is bench and do infact cut short by 1 rep or 2 . Don't fancy failing on 150kg+ bench . I don't trust random spotters in the gym . But that's pretty much the only thing really for my self. Machine would be a good idea but don't train in a gym with great equipment and poundage's just aren't enough . A nice plate loaded chest press would be great to go to complete failure on and safer


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

gymaddict1986 said:


> Unfortunately that is the case mate yes . I just don't see the point if not going to give it 100 percent . Admittedly the only thing I won't go to failure on is bench and do infact cut short by 1 rep or 2 . Don't fancy failing on 150kg+ bench . I don't trust random spotters in the gym . But that's pretty much the only thing really for my self. Machine would be a good idea but don't train in a gym with great equipment and poundage's just aren't enough . A nice plate loaded chest press would be great to go to complete failure on and safer


Ye I get that. Luckily my new spot has a comp style bench with adjustable arms so I can load up with zero worry. 

True what you say about spotters tho. Not something you wanna be trusting to a random dude. A good spotter is a valuable thing. These fvcktards that start grabbing the bar n shit drive me nuts. Don't touch the bar until its going backwards.


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## TankSlapp (5 mo ago)

Nonsense junk volume is the most common thing in my gym.

I can complete an entire session, whilst some guys are still doing bicep curls from when I entered the gym.

And then there are those taking ten minute rests between half arsed sets. Zero work ethic, and still persevering week after week, year after year, and wondering why they haven't changed.

You can get away with a lot less than most realise, if the effort is there.


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## Reckless (11 mo ago)

i rather keep the volume high and go to failure, especially on roids. no need for minimalism or bs like that i got time. thankfully.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

gymaddict1986 said:


> Well isn't that the truth , most people think they train hard when they clearly do not . Far from it . Some people don't actually know the meaning of the word failure . Yet take steroids to compensate for their shit training then wonder why they still can't grow . More than one way to skin a cat . I do high volume and low volume both work very well . Also It's very hard to over train in my opinion . Long as sleep is enough and eating enough and training plan isn't trash you can respond to either .


Most people will never be anywhere near the ability to over train


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## albatross (Nov 28, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Most people will never be anywhere near the ability to over train


I dunno, I seem to find it quite easy to overtrain my CNS. 3-4 weeks of high intensity and I am a mess.

My innate desire to grind myself into the dust in the gym has always been problematic - more so as I age.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

albatross said:


> I dunno, I seem to find it quite easy to overtrain my CNS. 3-4 weeks of high intensity and I am a mess.
> 
> My innate desire to grind myself into the dust in the gym has always been problematic - more so as I age.


Then you are the minority. Hence the "most" part.

Plus not knowing how you train or your diet etc I couldn't say you do.

But if you do train balls to the wall, look around you, how many other in your gym are?


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

simonboyle said:


> Then you are the minority. Hence the "most" part.
> 
> Plus not knowing how you train or your diet etc I couldn't say you do.
> 
> But if you do train balls to the wall, look around you, how many other in your gym are?


Training “balls to the wall” nowadays is like stated above, one set ending in a difficult rep and calling it failure.

Dont know if i’ve seen anyone even attempt to go past failure in quite a while for a single set let alone be overtraining.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Alex12340 said:


> Training “balls to the wall” nowadays is like stated above, one set ending in a difficult rep and calling it failure.
> 
> Dont know if i’ve seen anyone even attempt to go past failure in quite a while for a single set let alone be overtraining.


My point exactly. Or employ intensity techniques. Or volume training. Or actually push the strength either.

It's three sets of ten with 16 selfies between sets and they may struggle to get the tenth rep on that third set. 😂

I honestly haven't seen anyone training hard in any gym I've used in the last 10 years. Outside of people I've trained with.

And especially when you are in drugs, add extra sets, reps, days etc.

But nah, tis genetics don't you know? Honest hahaha.

And if they're that lackluster in the gym, you're not going to convince me they're hitting every calorie and macro every day either..and not eating pizza most days. And drinking every weekend etc.

You get out of this what you put in to it. You put everything in to it, you'll get everything. Put fook all in to it and that's exactly what you get too. 

But then they'd have to have accountability and that's just not happening. Couldn't possibly be you maybe train 3 days a week, half assed at best, eat shite and never push yourself.....no no....it's the gear, need more, and genetics are holding them back😂


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## Sahalé (3 mo ago)

gymaddict1986 said:


> Unfortunately that is the case mate yes . I just don't see the point if not going to give it 100 percent . Admittedly the only thing I won't go to failure on is bench and do infact cut short by 1 rep or 2 . Don't fancy failing on 150kg+ bench . I don't trust random spotters in the gym . But that's pretty much the only thing really for my self. Machine would be a good idea but don't train in a gym with great equipment and poundage's just aren't enough . A nice plate loaded chest press would be great to go to complete failure on and safer


Do you think your physique is down to how you train ie very intense style? I remember there were some enormous blokes at my very first gym and they would do a few exercises 3/4 times a week but watching their sets was insane. They had that almost comic book big muscle look you’d see from the 90s.
Or is it mainly just your genetics and consistency? Do you think you’d look as good if you did more of a high volume moderate intensity kinda approach?


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Sahalé said:


> Do you think your physique is down to how you train ie very intense style? I remember there were some enormous blokes at my very first gym and they would do a few exercises 3/4 times a week but watching their sets was insane. They had that almost comic book big muscle look you’d see from the 90s.
> Or is it mainly just your genetics and consistency? Do you think you’d look as good if you did more of a high volume moderate intensity kinda approach?


There is no right or Wrong way to train unless doing stupid volume or under training with low intensity . I do actually enjoy low volume very high intensity though . I revert back and forth . Look at the golden era , back in the 70s most did volume training and look better than most do today in my opinion . Both work for my self , I revert from one to the other . I am not exactly a small guy being 240lbs who built my physique mostly on volume training in the early days. Use both mate , I would not entirely fixate on one training idea or plan


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## hmgs (Jul 25, 2013)

Mmm, you all say *failure*. Is this true ‘_I’m fooking gonna die if I squeeze out anuvva…_’ or technical failure?


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## Sahalé (3 mo ago)

hmgs said:


> Mmm, you all say *failure*. Is this true ‘_I’m fooking gonna die if I squeeze out anuvva…_’ or technical failure?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

As others have said really, gotta really eke out every last possible rep to make low volume routines work. I've definitely spent the majority of my time in the gym doing Dorian Yates style training, the number of sets is very low of course but if you train to true failure, it will work. In and out of the gym in 45 mins on a 7 exercise routine, but I'm wrecked after those 45 mins and I always grew really well. If I was really strapped for time then I could be in and out of the gym in 20-30 mins, just skipping warm up sets and diving straight into a rest-pause set with a relatively light weight (12-15 reps to failure, rest 10 seconds, few more reps, rest 10 seconds, couple more, done). I actually did a 6 week block of this style of training and saw nice results.

With the above said, I think being dogmatic to one style of training is just a boring way to go about things. A good routine once you're into intermediate-advanced level will basically work for a lifetime as long as you deload regularly, but I liked to train on one program for 6-8 weeks, deload, then either do the same for another block or start a different routine. Wendler style 10x10 or Vince Gironda routines were favourites.


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## B88F (Mar 22, 2021)

Its the audacity you get from people in the gym who say shit like "what are you doing to get like that" "what are you taking to look like that" etc etc well have you seen how i train compared to you and most of the chebs in here lol and then you find out their diet is shit also, yet there hammering pro doses of juice thinking thats the magic! I suppose we shouldn't be surprised, in this day and age everyone wants everything now and the easiest way possible, lasses getting ass implants cos they can't be arsed to work hard for it! Ab implants etc etc even adverts on those shitty channels with a really annoying yank voice over saying get rock hard abs with ease just doing 20 mins of this a day (really wanky looking workout machine for £20) women lap that shit up!


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

nWo said:


> As others have said really, gotta really eke out every last possible rep to make low volume routines work. I've definitely spent the majority of my time in the gym doing Dorian Yates style training, the number of sets is very low of course but if you train to true failure, it will work. In and out of the gym in 45 mins on a 7 exercise routine, but I'm wrecked after those 45 mins and I always grew really well. If I was really strapped for time then I could be in and out of the gym in 20-30 mins, just skipping warm up sets and diving straight into a rest-pause set with a relatively light weight (12-15 reps to failure, rest 10 seconds, few more reps, rest 10 seconds, couple more, done). I actually did a 6 week block of this style of training and saw nice results.
> 
> With the above said, I think being dogmatic to one style of training is just a boring way to go about things. A good routine once you're into intermediate-advanced level will basically work for a lifetime as long as you deload regularly, but I liked to train on one program for 6-8 weeks, deload, then either do the same for another block or start a different routine. Wendler style 10x10 or Vince Gironda routines were favourites.


I do like Dorian's approach . I don't think many individuals would be able to train to that level of intensity though . I have tried my self and does in fact work. No point doing it if still got reps in the tank though , all out balls to the wall . Did you use a lot of machine work while using his approach ? I think it's quite difficult with some exercises such as the bench press as I said earlier with having a heavy bench press and training on own and no spotter . I tried it many years back , used plate loaded machines and did very well on it


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

I feel like I would probably benefit from more rest days and fewer working sets per session but I just enjoy training and getting a sickening pump so I'm willing to sacrifice being completely optimal if it means I enjoy it more.


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