# protien a myth ?



## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

Muscles are made up of 70% water why do we need extra protien ? My little boy, who is growing by the day has.. meals/mixtures with only 10% ish protien and alot more carb content! As questioned is protien a manufactures myth ???


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## WRT (May 21, 2009)

No.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

WRT said:


> No.


easy enough


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> Muscles are made up of 70% water why do we need extra protien ? My little boy, who is growing by the day has.. meals/mixtures with only 10% ish protien and alot more carb content! As questioned is protien a manufactures myth ???


He's a little boy, he would grow by the day, its his job.

No protein = No muscle, simple fact.. You need high levels of protein in your diet so they can be broken down into amino acids, these amino acids are then used to synthesise actin and myosin, the two contractile proteins in your striated muscle..

Why not try eating NO protein whatsoever for a few weeks, and just drink a fvck load of water everyday.. See where it gets you and you'll have your answer.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes and no... :whistling:


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## Jungle (Mar 9, 2009)

Protein contains amino acids. Amino acids are used in the body for nearly all bodily functions.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Yes and no... :whistling:


please elaborate :lol: :lol: :lol: :whistling:


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

MillionG said:


> He's a little boy, he would grow by the day, its his job.
> 
> No protein = No muscle, simple fact.. You need high levels of protein in your diet so they can be broken down into amino acids, these amino acids are then used to synthesise actin and myosin, the two contractile proteins in your striated muscle..
> 
> Why not try eating NO protein whatsoever for a few weeks, and just drink a fvck load of water everyday.. See where it gets you and you'll have your answer.


He seems to be growing..muscle..tendants..bone structure..etc etc and brain on a fairly normal diet of moderate protien high carbs and some good loving !! Not one to stir but I belive protien enriched diets via supplements only pays for Mr whey


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> He seems to be growing..muscle..tendants..bone structure..etc etc and brain on a fairly normal diet of moderate protien high carbs and some good loving !! Not one to stir but I belive protien enriched diets via supplements only pays for Mr whey


Can you please clarify when you say 'little boy', are we talking an actual child or like your 19 year old son who you call your little boy?

Because if its an actual child then ofcourse he needs very little protein, he's only little.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

im guessing hes probably already been on supplements when he was bottle fed...


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> Muscles are made up of 70% water why do we need extra protien ? My little boy, who is growing by the day has.. meals/mixtures with only 10% ish protien and alot more carb content! As questioned is protien a manufactures myth ???


no its not a myth.

For one,your son is a fraction the size of you and needs only a few g's protein a day to grow,he also doesnt perform sets of muscle tearing weights most days of the week,his metabolism will be flying and is able to assimilate the higher carbs better than most fully grown adults.

Also you have to remember,the diets for kids are born of the same people who tell you the rda's of what a fully grown adult needs,its bred into everyone to simply accept this when in actual fact if they adopted our way of thinking with nutrients the kids would have a much better balanced diet and better body compositions as they grow,i'll give you two examples,my kids.

I have a 5 year old girl and 20 month old son,both born prematurely,one severly so.

Now we had to go by hospital; guidlines for the duration of many months due to complications in their health,but from the day Ser and i took hold of their diet from the viewpoint of what WE feel they should have and not some lame ass blueprinted hospital nutritionist,they both flourished.

Both my kids have very low bodyfat composition,both have fookin six packs lmao,my daughters legs are already showing muscular shape in her thighs and claves and has a little set of gunage goin on clearly as well,my son is a strong little mofo,he can single handidly pull himself up onto our living room window sill with one arm whilst reaching out with the other to grab things,has a grip like a vice and his delts/pecs tho teeny are clearly starting to come thru.

Now ever since they have been around i have been competing and obviously offseason like a bodybuilder,so its pretty much a meat/rice/potatoes/oats diet year round,and kids being kids they have always wanted what mum and daddy are having and grew to eat this stuff themselves,not forced upon them btw in case anyone thinks that,they actually prefer this stuff through choice,even when staying at grand parents lolol much to the grandparents horror and disgust lolol(typical round wheezing out of shape family members who see no wrong in their own diets lol)


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

weeman said:


> no its not a myth.
> 
> For one,your son is a fraction the size of you and needs only a few g's protein a day to grow,he also doesnt perform sets of muscle tearing weights most days of the week,his metabolism will be flying and is able to assimilate the higher carbs better than most fully grown adults.
> 
> ...


Good on you, it does wind me up a bit when I see fat kids with fat parents.. Talk about not giving your kids a decent shot at life.


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

MillionG said:


> Can you please clarify when you say 'little boy', are we talking an actual child or like your 19 year old son who you call your little boy?
> 
> Because if its an actual child then ofcourse he needs very little protein, he's only little.


Im talking about my young boy. He seems to be growing (obviously naturaly) as nature ment him. If hes growing on a normal diet of the bread and butter (so to speak) witch to be honest defies everything I was told about BB, do you not think protien might be a bit overated IMO. As said muscle +70%water ??


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> Im talking about my young boy. He seems to be growing (obviously naturaly) as nature ment him. If hes growing on a normal diet of the bread and butter (so to speak) witch to be honest defies everything I was told about BB, do you not think protien might be a bit overated IMO. As said muscle +70%water ??


Is your son bodybuilding?

Guessing not.

So how does this relate?

Yes you will grow with very little protein (until you're 18 years old, after which any growth is outwards, around the belly, and the bitchtits), but you're not going to get anywhere bbing.


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

MillionG said:


> Is your son bodybuilding?
> 
> Guessing not.
> 
> ...


This relates to the fact that not only is he growing with nominal protein intake for his muscles he is ****ing growing everywhere else !! I wont let him become a BB there complete **** holes !!


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## Ironclad (Jun 23, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> do you not think protien might be a bit overated IMO. As said muscle +70%water ??


Not enuff protein in water.

:rolleye:


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## WRT (May 21, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> This relates to the fact that not only is he growing with nominal protein intake for his muscles he is ****ing growing everywhere else !! *I wont let him become a BB there complete **** holes !!*


Not the wisest thing to say on one of the top BBing boards in the UK:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Babies have far better nitrogen (i.e. protein) retention abilities than adults mate. Sadly as we get older we become less good at recycling protein and thus we need to eat more to maintain our protein levels.


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## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

weeman said:


> no its not a myth.
> 
> For one,your son is a fraction the size of you and needs only a few g's protein a day to grow,he also doesnt perform sets of muscle tearing weights most days of the week,his metabolism will be flying and is able to assimilate the higher carbs better than most fully grown adults.
> 
> ...


good post Bri, my kids also eat what we have for dinner wich tbh is always some form of fish,chicken,steak etc with potatoes or rice, oats for brekky, lunch they take with them and is always turkey breast or chicken breast sliced brown sandwiches, all my kids are lean and pretty strong for there ages tbh :thumbup1:

youngest is 2 in march and is a brut lol :lol:


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

WRT said:


> Not the wisest thing to say on one of the top BBing boards in the UK:lol: :lol: :lol:


It was I scientific ask ?? But obviously fell on deaf ears !! Im very sorry will be consuming lots more protien ! :thumb:


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

It's protein mate, not protien. Just helping out. Again.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

MillionG said:


> Why not try eating NO protein whatsoever for a few weeks, and just drink a fvck load of water everyday.. See where it gets you and you'll have your answer.


:laugh:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

plus,think of it this way,if you think 'what if its all a myth' dont you think that everyone here that is serious about what they are doing wouldnt have figured this out yet and save themselves a shedload of cash every week on food and supps?

The proof is in the pudding,you try and be a consistantly gaining bodybuilder on what the current RDA for a grown adult male is,i can tell you now it wouldnt be long before the last thing you resembled would be a bodybuilder.

For the last 4 weeks i have been in a bad position financially and havent been able to afford my usual supps or the amount of food i normally eat,so for the last few weeks i have been eating a lot less,prob circa 150-200g prot a day and carbs fluctuate as they always do from about 200-400g a day,whats happened,i have got noticeably smaller (almost inch lost on arms) and about 14lbs lighter,and softer for it,i have still been training as i usually do,the only variable that has changed is my food and supp intake.

That to me speaks volumes.


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> It was I scientific ask ?? But obviously fell on deaf ears !! Im very sorry will be consuming lots more protien ! :thumb:


It would be blind eyes..

..but anyway...

We saw what you were asking, and we all answered...

No, you cannot substitute protein with water and expect to turn out like Arnie.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> This relates to the fact that not only is he growing with nominal protein intake for his muscles he is ****ing growing everywhere else !! *I wont let him become a BB there complete **** holes !!*


 :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: what the..............


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## BigBiff (Sep 30, 2008)

Euroboy said:


> Muscles are made up of 70% water why do we need extra protien ? My little boy, who is growing by the day has.. meals/mixtures with only 10% ish protien and alot more carb content! As questioned is protien a manufactures myth ???


i think my body at the time was made up of 70% tren acetate


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

BigBiff said:


> i think my body at the time was made up of 70% tren acetate


Fair play man !! I will know shut up ! :thumbup1:


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## BigBiff (Sep 30, 2008)

weeman said:


> :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: what the..............


X 2 Wtf, preper to be neg repped into oblivion haha


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Absolutely. I think it was Mike Christian who said whenever anyone asked him why they had plateaued he told them to double their protein intake. 99% of the time they'd start growing like crazy.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

> Muscles are made up of 70% water why do we need extra protien ? My little boy, who is growing by the day has.. meals/mixtures with only 10% ish protien and alot more carb content! As questioned is protien a manufactures myth ???


Metabolism is a bit more complex than that chap. By that logic, you could drink a few more litres of water a day to win the Olympia.

Nutritional needs vary for different points in development. Putting adults on the babyfood diet or giving toddlers low fat diets with loads of whey is inadvisable.

For bodybuilders, protein is needed to build muscle, however the equation is a little more complex.



Euroboy said:


> This relates to the fact that not only is he growing with nominal protein intake for his muscles he is ****ing growing everywhere else !!* I wont let him become a BB there complete **** holes !!*


Are you not a BB? What is your discipline?

J


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

MillionG said:


> It would be blind eyes..
> 
> ..but anyway...
> 
> ...


Nailed it ! Did arnie consume lots of Whey ???


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> Muscles are made up of 70% water why do we need extra protien ? My little boy, who is growing by the day has.. meals/mixtures with only 10% ish protien and alot more carb content! As questioned is protien a manufactures myth ???


Seriously, mate, that has got to be one of the dumbest things ever said on here, in the time I have been reading.

You are seriously comparing your little boy and what is enough to get him naturally growing, to serious fully grown hard training athletes that have many many times more muscle tissue than him, and trying to add more?

Are you clinically insane? A troll?

A car is probably - what - 70 percent iron?

I'll deliver a tonne slug of iron to you tomorrow, see if you can jump in and get to your work in it.

Honestly, seriously, and some say funny banter is killing the board.

Maybe I am just moodier than normal because of the cardio, but I don't know...


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

LMAO what a nob, 1st neg rep since the new rep system


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## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

weeman said:


> plus,think of it this way,if you think 'what if its all a myth' dont you think that everyone here that is serious about what they are doing wouldnt have figured this out yet and save themselves a shedload of cash every week on food and supps?
> 
> The proof is in the pudding,you try and be a consistantly gaining bodybuilder on what the current RDA for a grown adult male is,i can tell you now it wouldnt be long before the last thing you resembled would be a bodybuilder.
> 
> ...


FFS FFS cant rep again and now im gonna look like an ar5e kisser but fvck it here goes lol,

back earlier in the year i lost my job wich in turn lost out on supps, food, (still had gear - thanks to missis XX) but was out of work for best part of 3-4 months, i lost muscle and strength and looked pretty crap compared to what i had done, got job back in september -- add in decent meats and supps and wahey im progressing, 

alright im way off of Mr wee's level but its the same situation same effects:thumbup1:


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> Nailed it ! Did arnie consume lots of Whey ???


Haven't a clue, but what I do know is that he didn't get to be Mr Olympia on a diet of Water and babyfood.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> Nailed it ! Did arnie consume lots of Whey ???


No but he consumed lots of fkn protein, the forms may have changed over the years, but the building materials for muscle are the same.

IT MIGHT BE 70% FVCKING WATER, BUT IT STILL NEEDS ALL THE STUFF THAT MAKES UP THE OTHER 30%


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## Gerry_bhoy (Dec 25, 2008)

I've read that once you are hitting the 250g+ mark alot of it goes too waste.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> Nailed it ! Did arnie consume lots of Whey ???


Arnie wasnt all that anyway :lol:


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Seriously, mate, that has got to be one of the dumbest things ever said on here, in the time I have been reading.
> 
> You are seriously considering your little boy and what is enough to get him naturally growing, to serious fully grown hard training athletes that have many many times more muscle tissue than him, and trying to add more?
> 
> ...


 try more cal


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> This relates to the fact that not only is he growing with nominal protein intake for his muscles he is ****ing growing everywhere else !! I wont let him become a BB there complete **** holes !!





Euroboy said:


> try more cal


 :gun_bandana: :gun_bandana: :gun_bandana: :ban:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> try more cal


Look seriously, fvkc off

You are now comparin a baby at what - 7 to 12lb say, and its growth requirements, to bodybuilders at, say, over 200lb

WHAT THE FVCK

And no, it doesnt make sense.

Muscle might contain water, might contain a lot of it, but that on its own doesnt mean a hell of a lot.

My house contains mostly bricks, quite a lot of them. But if it werent for the cement, the windows, the roof, the doors and everything else, I'd be fvcked if I would stay in it. Because without that, it wouldnt be a house - it would just be a pile of bricks.

Water is easy to get, the structural framework of muscle isnt, and must be BUILT - not from water, from protein and fats. Without this it woudl jsut be water.

Mind you, that passes for muscle amongst a lot of tw4ts.

I have nothing agains folks bringing stuff to the table for discussion, thats what this place is about, but seriously, this isn't even a discussion topic, its a lot of sh1te that at best is pis$ing me off and at worst could confuse newbs into doing what a lot of people on here who spout equal sh1te do - stay the exact same month on month, year on year.

There is ZERO capacity for intelligent discussion here, becasue with that train of thought, you seem to be lacking it.


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

Sorry chaps dug myslef into a right hole !! Thought it was worth talking about, defo not ! only a thought, were all open to new ideas ! Sorry again.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> Sorry chaps dug myslef into a right hole !! Thought it was worth talking about, defo not ! only a thought, were all open to new ideas ! Sorry again.


Ok Ok Ok, I apologise, maybe I was a little harsh. Im the first to say about keeping mind open, I don't know what came over me.

So, indulge me.

Your theory, protein is a myth - cool, lets assume you are right.

Write me out a diet? I mean I need to eat something, and that something is best to be condusive to my goals if poss - so go for it.

Tell us what to eat.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

Euroboy said:


> Sorry chaps dug myslef into a right hole !! Thought it was worth talking about, defo not ! only a thought, were all open to new ideas ! Sorry again.


Dug yourself into a hole? Your on a bodybuilding forum calling bodybuilders ****holes you nob.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Tell us what to eat.


Water. :thumbup1:


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## BigBiff (Sep 30, 2008)

Your a disgrace to bodybuilding


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Dan said:


> Water. :thumbup1:


Well see I am waiting for that, but Im already drinkin 3 - 4 litres of water a day on average, so by rights I should be as big as Jay... especially as babies only drink a couple of hundred mls of the stuff, and they grow like a bastard :lol:


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## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

Dan said:


> Water. :thumbup1:


 do we have to chew that to aid digestion or just down in one?? :confused1:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Dan said:


> Water. :thumbup1:


 and rusks.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

rs007 said:


> Well see I am waiting for that, but Im already drinkin 3 - 4 litres of water a day on average, so by rights I should be as big as Jay... especially as babies only drink a couple of hundred mls of the stuff, and they grow like a bastard :lol:


obviously your using that fake UG water,if you were to use pharma water you'd be growing like a weed mate.


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## BigBiff (Sep 30, 2008)

weeman said:


> and rusks.


omg there really nice though lol, i had some on my last cheat day lmao :bounce: :bounce:


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

No probs, all opinions help ! lol All the good stuff mate protien,protein!! As said not trying to get anyones backs up but it would be nice to see some dude training for 8 weeks high protien diet on gear min cals and then compare him again with high cal diet ! IMO ! I grow by eating the kitchen sink !! All in it to win it !


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

BigBiff said:


> omg there really nice though lol, i had some on my last cheat day lmao :bounce: :bounce:


i have a toddler mate,he's my rusk dealer,mofo keeps knocking the prices up tho,one day he tried to pass me off with a piece of oatcake thinking i wouldnt notice,tellin you man,dealers,there only in it for the cash,they dont care about your needs.


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## BigBiff (Sep 30, 2008)

weeman said:


> i have a toddler mate,he's my rusk dealer,mofo keeps knocking the prices up tho,one day he tried to pass me off with a piece of oatcake thinking i wouldnt notice,tellin you man,dealers,there only in it for the cash,they dont care about your needs.


BAHAHHAA, i think as a baby my mother never understood my need for rusks as soon as id cry in starvation she jam her breast in my mouth when all i wanted was a rusk  !! HAHA


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

weeman said:


> i have a toddler mate,he's my rusk dealer,mofo keeps knocking the prices up tho,one day he tried to pass me off with a piece of oatcake thinking i wouldnt notice,tellin you man,dealers,there only in it for the cash,they dont care about your needs.


Kids are excellent at deals. I had to pay my brother £1 for a smart price choc bar worth 23p the **** :lol:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> No probs, all opinions help ! lol All the good stuff mate protien,protein!! As said not trying to get anyones backs up but it would be nice to see some dude training for 8 weeks high protien diet on gear min cals and then compare him again with high cal diet ! IMO ! I grow by eating the kitchen sink !! All in it to win it !


All pis$taking and crabbit'ness aside, I've done it mate, over the years.

I tried everything to avoid having to put my hand in my pocket and pay for a decent protein level - guess what, I didn't grow.

I grow quite steady now tbh, not as fast as I like, but it never is eh?

I mean some people can and do get by on lower than expected protein levels, and make good gains - but for every one example of someone poitned out to me that gets by on very low protien, I can usually point out 10 that just stay the same if they don't have a decent amount of it in there. If they up carbs, they get fat, so thats not the issue...

I tell you tho, I'd love it if protein were a myth, my wallet would love it too.


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

weeman said:


> i have a toddler mate,he's my rusk dealer,mofo keeps knocking the prices up tho,one day he tried to pass me off with a piece of oatcake thinking i wouldnt notice,tellin you man,dealers,there only in it for the cash,they dont care about your needs.


Bad timing


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

weeman said:


> i have a toddler mate,he's my rusk dealer,mofo keeps knocking the prices up tho,one day he tried to pass me off with a piece of oatcake thinking i wouldnt notice,tellin you man,dealers,there only in it for the cash,they dont care about your needs.


Not allowed to discuss sources mate, I'd edit post before the mods see this


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## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

weeman said:


> i have a toddler mate,he's my rusk dealer,mofo keeps knocking the prices up tho,one day he tried to pass me off with a piece of oatcake thinking i wouldnt notice,tellin you man,dealers,there only in it for the cash,they dont care about your needs.


 see my toddler/rusk dealer is really generous he comes to me and offers me the rusks for free, but only the edge hes been sucking for like ten minutes you know that soggy goey bit, yep shoves the damn thing all over my face oh the joy of rusks and saliver:lol:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Dan said:


> Kids are excellent at deals. I had to pay my brother £1 for a smart price choc bar worth 23p the **** :lol:


see what i mean mate?their heartless:cursing: :cursing: :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

We don't require protein we require amino acids which is what protein is broken down into.

IF you make sure that you have a complete amino pool in your body for most of the day (you don't want it at all times because its the amino spikes that promote anabolism) you will grow.

Bodybuilders are not the smartest of people as a general rule so it does not surprise that they focus on protein over every thing else when in reality amino acids are only part of the larger picture. Sure if you are eating not enough fats and/or carbs you will require protein for energy which involves converting it to glucose which is neither easy nor healthy then you will need a lot of it because you are not only using it for its intended use which is growth and repair of the body but also as an energy source.

What i find the most amazing is that euroboy actually made a thread i find slightly interesting and one that i actually understand wtf he is on about!


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

rs007 said:


> All pis$taking and crabbit'ness aside, I've done it mate, over the years.
> 
> I tried everything to avoid having to put my hand in my pocket and pay for a decent protein level - guess what, I didn't grow.
> 
> ...


As said I will shut up ! Thought I wa the next Duchaine !!lol but there is some credible sense in my nonsense IMO !! Just off to have a shakey shake !!


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> Bad timing


really,i thought it was a well timed piece of comic hilarity tbh.:laugh:



rs007 said:


> Not allowed to discuss sources mate, I'd edit post before the mods see this


sh1t mate your right,i'm done for,bet i'll be bombarded with cnts on this board pming for access to my source,i clearly wasnt using any forward thinking there:lol: :lol:



ryoken said:


> see my toddler/rusk dealer is really generous he comes to me and offers me the rusks for free, but only the edge hes been sucking for like ten minutes you know that soggy goey bit, yep shoves the damn thing all over my face oh the joy of rusks and saliver:lol:


oh yeah i know this well.

tonight for example,he decide he would share MY chilli with me,he ditched the spoon and went in about it with his hands,stuffing a handfull in his mouth,chewing it up a bit then looking at me proud,spitting it back out into his hands and trying to put it in my mouth:cursing: :cursing:

i thn kthis may in some way be related to how he watched on CBBC this morning how a mother bird was feeding the chicklets as they do by regurgitating food into their mouths.

nice one.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Con said:


> We don't require protein we require amino acids which is what protein is broken down into.
> 
> IF you make sure that you have a complete amino pool in your body for most of the day (you don't want it at all times because its the amino spikes that promote anabolism) you will grow.
> 
> ...


its euroboy mate,not essexboy.

i know i know,euro/essex,we all look the same :lol: :lol:


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

weeman said:


> *r**eally,i thought it was a well timed piece of comic hilarity tbh*.:laugh:
> 
> sh1t mate your right,i'm done for,bet i'll be bombarded with cnts on this board pming for access to my source,i clearly wasnt using any forward thinking there:lol: :lol:
> 
> ...


? Are Ya ? dodgy eyesight mate... all the clomid

:thumb:


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Euroboy said:


> *
> *
> 
> *
> ...


*
*

*
eh?*


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

weeman said:


> its euroboy mate,not essexboy.
> 
> i know i know,euro/essex,we all look the same :lol: :lol:


:laugh: Funny thing is essexboy is probably my fav poster on this board FFS i need to pay more attention.


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

BigBiff said:


> Your a disgrace to bodybuilding


 :lol: Ahaha, that amused me to no end, not quite sure why.



weeman said:


> and rusks.


mmm, love them, used to steal them off my younger siblings..

.. not like actually out of their hands, I'm not a monster.



Con said:


> We don't require protein we require amino acids which is what protein is broken down into.
> 
> IF you make sure that you have a complete amino pool in your body for most of the day (you don't want it at all times because its the amino spikes that promote anabolism) you will grow.
> 
> ...


Hey, I resent that comment.. I'm studying for a Biology degree.. Which is both smart and relevant.. pow!! :beer:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Euroboy said:


> *
> *
> 
> *
> ...


*
*

*
i literally do not know wtf you are talking about here mate:confused1:*

*
*

*
can you please tell me what you are on about? what have i deleted?*


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

MillionG said:


> Hey, I resent that comment.. I'm studying for a Biology degree.. Which is both smart and relevant.. pow!!


Congrads! I am actually finishing up a degree in psychology, but i have also done 2 years of science based studies so plenty of bio classes which i disliked.

I meant my comment as a complete average statement as in the average meathead/bodybuilder is probably not the smartest. Obviously i did not mean every one who trains or competes as that's not true in the slightest. But obviously you realized what i meant and were joking....


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

Con said:


> We don't require protein we require amino acids which is what protein is broken down into.
> 
> IF you make sure that you have a complete amino pool in your body for most of the day (you don't want it at all times because its the amino spikes that promote anabolism) you will grow.
> 
> ...


 For once eh !! :laugh: Many more to come !!lol


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Con said:


> Congrads! I am actually finishing up a degree in psychology, but i have also done 2 years of science based studies so plenty of bio classes which i disliked.
> 
> I meant my comment as a complete average statement as in the average meathead/bodybuilder is probably not the smartest. Obviously i did not mean every one who trains or competes as that's not true in the slightest. *But obviously you realized what i meant and were joking.... *


Lol I know mate, just messing. :tongue:


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## stonecoldzero (Aug 30, 2009)

Euroboy -

Is there a joke that you think the rest of us are all in on? Reason I ask is that I hardly ever understand what the fu(k you're going on about. Even your avatar pi$$es me off - although, to be fair, maybe that's because I associate it with your nonsensical posts. :confused1:

If you've got a little boy, do him a favour and get him a dictionary. Don't even try to teach him to spell.

When I was a kid, there was a word we used to describe people like you. Unfortunately, it's not ok to call someone a spastic anymore. :laugh:


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## Euroboy (Dec 3, 2009)

stonecoldzero said:


> Euroboy -
> 
> Is there a joke that you think the rest of us are all in on? Reason I ask is that I hardly ever understand what the fu(k you're going on about. Even your avatar pi$$es me off - although, to be fair, maybe that's because I associate it with your nonsensical posts. :confused1:
> 
> ...


So if you don't like what I say please do not respond !! End of. You could of called me something a bit better than a spastic thats ****ing insulting Knob ed ! lol only joking pr**k


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## BlitzAcez (Mar 6, 2008)

Wait a minute did I miss something, we are all bodybuilders here and he called bodybuilders a**holes so why is everyone even replying to him?

In response to what you said euroboy, f**k you, you c**t.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

BlitzAcez said:


> Wait a minute did I miss something, we are all bodybuilders here and he called bodybuilders a**holes so why is everyone even replying to him?
> 
> In response to what you said euroboy, f**k you, you c**t.


Because you are the only person who actually read his whole post mate


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

weeman said:


> no its not a myth.
> 
> For one,your son is a fraction the size of you and needs only a few g's protein a day to grow,he also doesnt perform sets of muscle tearing weights most days of the week,his metabolism will be flying and is able to assimilate the higher carbs better than most fully grown adults.
> 
> ...


Weeman just out of curiosity what is the typical diet you would give your kids as i have a son who is 2 1/2 nearly and he wants to eat what i am when i am which as you know is nearly all the time especially when bulking etc with things like as you said rice chicken fish tuna potatos sometimes pasta etc and veg (when i am forced to lol) as well as fruit do you think that it would be ok for him to eat every few hours and the same foods as me e.g oats in morning and rice and chicken etc as well as pbutter and protein shakes????


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

BlitzAcez said:


> Wait a minute did I miss something, we are all bodybuilders here and he called bodybuilders a**holes so why is everyone even replying to him?
> 
> In response to what you said euroboy, f**k you, you c**t.


Handbags ladies.


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## BlitzAcez (Mar 6, 2008)

MillionG said:


> Handbags ladies.


I'm the one in the blue.






:thumb:


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

Chris4Pez said:


> Weeman just out of curiosity what is the typical diet you would give your kids as i have a son who is 2 1/2 nearly and he wants to eat what i am when i am which as you know is nearly all the time especially when bulking etc with things like as you said rice chicken fish tuna potatos sometimes pasta etc and veg (when i am forced to lol) as well as fruit do you think that it would be ok for him to eat every few hours and the same foods as me e.g oats in morning and rice and chicken etc as well as pbutter and protein shakes????


I'm not weeman sorry, but wrt diet in early years, I would not skip on fishoils or phospholipids/lecithin either considering the needs for brain development.

J


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## pudj (Apr 25, 2008)

Chris4Pez said:


> Weeman just out of curiosity what is the typical diet you would give your kids as i have a son who is 2 1/2 nearly and he wants to eat what i am when i am which as you know is nearly all the time especially when bulking etc with things like as you said rice chicken fish tuna potatos sometimes pasta etc and veg (when i am forced to lol) as well as fruit do you think that it would be ok for him to eat every few hours and the same foods as me e.g oats in morning and rice and chicken etc as well as pbutter and protein shakes????


I'm not weeman either but I've heard its best to have fish and a rice cake then fish then fish and a rice cake and mid afternoon fish then evening meal fish and a rice cake :thumb:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Chris4Pez said:


> Weeman just out of curiosity what is the typical diet you would give your kids as i have a son who is 2 1/2 nearly and he wants to eat what i am when i am which as you know is nearly all the time especially when bulking etc with things like as you said rice chicken fish tuna potatos sometimes pasta etc and veg (when i am forced to lol) as well as fruit do you think that it would be ok for him to eat every few hours and the same foods as me e.g oats in morning and rice and chicken etc as well as pbutter and protein shakes????





Joshua said:


> I'm not weeman sorry, but wrt diet in early years, I would not skip on fishoils or phospholipids/lecithin either considering the needs for brain development.
> 
> J


 :thumbup1:



pudj said:


> I'm not weeman either but I've heard its best to have fish and a rice cake then fish then fish and a rice cake and mid afternoon fish then evening meal fish and a rice cake :thumb:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chris my kids dont eat as often as i will but for their meals in which they do have its basically along the lines of much smaller versions of what i will have,ie lean steak mince chillie with rice,chicken fajita wraps,home made chicken curries/peppercorn sauce/rice,oats with lecithin granules in,etc etc both my son and daughter love my Pro-6 banana protein from EXTREME NUTRITION ( :thumbup1: ) they call it milk shake,try and give them any nesquik sh1t or the like and they look at you like your trying to rip them off lmao


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Tell you what, why not just stop eating protein rich foods and protein shakes for 6 months? Do some before and after pics and see how you go. :thumbup1:

I'll carry on as i am thanks.....


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

OK time for some cold hard facts not speculation and "fear" that lack of protein, will hinder your growth.The following is a summary of an experiment for a book, ive had to type this, not cut/paste, so pay attention.

Eddie Muller an 18 year old student was trained by Ellington Darden in Florida in the summer of 1984.He was pushed through 3 weekly fullbody workouts, his diet was progessive, each week his calorific intake increased.His average intake was 3068.Here is a sample daily menu.

b/fast. 3 slices of bacon, 2 eggs.cup of milk, small canteloupe,3 slices jam/toast.

lunch.1 grilled cheese sandwich, 1 peanut butter sandwich, cup of orange juice,1 pear , cup of corn.

dinner.6 ounces of fish,1 baked potatoe,cup of sour cream,3 slices of bread.small salad and a cup of dates.

That equate to approx 3100 calories.No one food group is favoured.Its a well balanced diet.The secret is to up the calories as you gain muscle, which Eddie did.

During the 10 week experiment, Eddie gained 16 pounds of bodyweight.he also got leaner,his body fat decreased from 8% to 6%.which means he lost 2.2 lbs of fat,so his lean muscle increase was 18.2 lbs.That was in 10 weeks, training for 40 mins 3 times a week.And before you asked , he used no drugs.

If you think you can make better gains than Eddie,then id be suprised.Look at his diet, he gained 18lbs of MUSCLE on a balanced diet.How much extra protein do you think you really need?

You need calories and water.Dont overemphasise the importance of any food group, you need then all in balance to fuction optimally.

Creatine, has been shown to help with recovery.Darden used this in later experiments, Even Mike Mentzer, who was opposed to the ingestion of anything spurious(except dinabol and deca!, sorry mike)was appraising it, so that maybe worth considering.

Dont rely on the commercial interests that have spawned this myth since Bob Hoffman and Joe Weider,realised in the 1950s, that you can only sell a barbell set ONCE.Supplements however, are repeat buys you keep coming back for more and more..........


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

essexboy said:


> OK time for some cold hard facts not speculation and "fear" that lack of protein, will hinder your growth.The following is a summary of an experiment for a book, ive had to type this, not cut/paste, so pay attention.
> 
> Eddie Muller an 18 year old student was trained by Ellington Darden in Florida in the summer of 1984.He was pushed through 3 weekly fullbody workouts, his diet was progessive, each week his calorific intake increased.His average intake was 3068.Here is a sample daily menu.
> 
> ...


Nice post Essexboy....


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

pudj said:


> I'm not weeman either but I've heard its best to have fish and a rice cake then fish then fish and a rice cake and mid afternoon fish then evening meal fish and a rice cake :thumb:


i think this is the resturant where he got his diet, of fish and ricecakes


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

How many grams of amino acids are in a chicken breast, lets say there are 25 grams of protein in the chicken breast, how many grams of amino acids do you get out of it.


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Sorry guys had to post it.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

essexboy said:


> OK time for some cold hard facts not speculation and "fear" that lack of protein, will hinder your growth.The following is a summary of an experiment for a book, ive had to type this, not cut/paste, so pay attention.
> 
> Eddie Muller an 18 year old student was trained by Ellington Darden in Florida in the summer of 1984.He was pushed through 3 weekly fullbody workouts, his diet was progessive, each week his calorific intake increased.His average intake was 3068.Here is a sample daily menu.
> 
> ...


Im pretty sure your numbers dont add up RE gains and percentages, since we don't have Eddies start and finish wieghts its hard to deciper. Someone gains lean wieght, their bodyfat % goes down by default, doesnt mean they necessarily lost fat.

What size was Eddie when he started? How long would these gains have continued? Was he an advanced bodybuilder who has already had his one shot at the quick, easy gains of someone starting out - no.

Not on any drugs, but if he is a healthy 18 year old, he will have neough natural in his system to maximes benefit, the shock from starting training, and some clean eating and I am not surprised. Think we can all remember our quick and easy gains when we started, nothing ground breaking there - in fact I am pretty certain I made similar gains, certian within a short period of time people were commenting "steroids" and the like at school.

But, as we ahave all experienced, it grinds to a halt pretty quick for most of us, and this is because, IMO, our body very quickly reaches the limit of the nutrition. In fact fvck that, it isn't IMO, its fact, I have proven it myself many times over. Eddies will have too.

At this point, protein requirements will take off.

It really isn't hard to fathom, if you have a modicum of intelligence.

More muscle = more muscle getting damaged when trianing + through day to day, = more just required for maintenance, never mind growth.

The bigger you are, the more this increases.

But hey, you don't need to believe me, no one here needs to, fine, I know I will make progress, see you in 6 months time when this camp are still spouting the same bull**** and haven't changed.

I still can't beleive for the life of me people are talking about water. Water is not a nutrient folks. And, it is easy to get, thirst usually sees to that.

Plus, myself and many others make a point of getting 3, 4litres plus in per day, its a non issue, please, for the sake of the reputation of this board, drop the childish tie that "ohhh muscle is mostly water on paper, maybe thats the key to muscle"

Testosterone is mostly carbon/hydrogen and oxygen - go eat some charcoal and wash it down with H2O, we can laugh it you in 6 months when we see how it worked out :lol:


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> How many grams of amino acids are in a chicken breast, lets say there are 25 grams of protein in the chicken breast, how many grams of amino acids do you get out of it.


Ken, im not 100% on this, but in a 10 ounce chicken breast, you can expect approx 100 grams of amino acids.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

In fact, you refer to "balanced diet".

Explain balanced diet for me.

I'll save you the bother.

It is a diet that matches the nutritional requirements for the person concerned.

So, a very lean 220lb bodybuilder, will require the same diet as a 140lb starting trainee?

Of course they won't, to even entertain the thought is ridiculous, the notion of an idiot.

Both diets will be different, drastically so, to meet the requirements of the two. But both can still be termed "balanced" if it meets all nutritional needs - regardless of how much, or how little protein - or any other macronutrient is present.

Balanced is balanced to the requirements of the particular individual only.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> How many grams of amino acids are in a chicken breast, lets say there are 25 grams of protein in the chicken breast, how many grams of amino acids do you get out of it.


Look, this is where people have confused the issue here, but now saying it isnt protein your body needs, it is amino acids.

This is correct - but its anal to say, becasue it is a no brainer.

Its like saying "you don't need carbohydrates, you just need glucose", since thats what the body breaks it down to at the end of the day. Pedantic in the extreme.

25g of protein, is 25g of amino acids. Amino acids are the sub units of protein, and some of them are essential yada yada yada.

But considering the only real source of amino acids is protein (unless you live on isolated supplemental forms) then its much more common sense and straight forward to just think of protein - don't get confused.

As long as the protein is of good quality though, most meat sources are, as are eggs, milk, and most protein drink mixes these days.


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

protein is a fast way of getting esential nutrients into your body...but its not actualy necessary.....muscle can be built perfectly well on just carbs....look at a gorila or a cow, neither eat any protein yet have huge muscles....problem is they have to eat more or less constantly to get the nutrients they need...chimps on the other hand who are mainly herbivores will jump at the chance to eat meat if they get the chance, and we are the same, designed to live on carbs but will fast track the process if we can get meat.

Edit...just to answer the OP...you can grow a child or a whole nation on little more than rice if you want, but its not ideal


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Im pretty sure your numbers dont add up RE gains and percentages, since we don't have Eddies start and finish wieghts its hard to deciper. Someone gains lean wieght, their bodyfat % goes down by default, doesnt mean they necessarily lost fat.
> 
> What size was Eddie when he started? How long would these gains have continued? Was he an advanced bodybuilder who has already had his one shot at the quick, easy gains of someone starting out - no.
> 
> ...


His starting weight was 160lbs.If you lose bodyfat % decreases, then yes youve lost fat!Its in print including photographic evidence.Ater another year or so he was at 200lbs.

The numbers do add up. The subject was subjected to accurate skin fold measurements by an experienced Doctor.

Whether or not he was a fledgling or an experienced bodybuilder is not relavant.He STILL gained 18 lbs of muscle without over emphasising protein.

The evidence is sound, and i do posess more than a "modicum" of inteligence.This was not a theory, or speculation,but an event that took place.If for whatever motive you "feel" the need to reject it, then fine, however please dont shoot the messenger.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

IanStu said:


> protein is a fast way of getting esential nutrients into your body...but its not actualy necessary.....muscle can be built perfectly well on just carbs....look at a gorila or a cow, neither eat any protein yet have huge muscles....problem is they have to eat more or less constantly to get the nutrients they need...chimps on the other hand who are mainly carniverous will jump at the chance to eat meat if they get the chance, and we are the same, designed to live on carbs but will fast track the process if we can get meat.


I don't know if you are being serious or not IanStu, I hope you are joking.

The animals you mention - cows for example - have entirely different digestive systems to us, if we ate grass we woudl just sh1t it out - they have the digestive capability to get everything from it - and when you eat all fvcking day, thats a lot of stuff.

Gorillas I believe are omnivorous, eating a large array of fruits, leaves, seeds, and large amounts of insects/creepy crawly/buggy things - plenty of protein garnering foods in there, and they eat HUGE amounts.

Muscle can be built on carbs? That is utter sh1t mate, I so hope you are joking, muscle REQUIRES nitrogen, and the only way a human can get that is through ingesting protein (ok amino acids for the pedantic)

Unless of course you are a legume and can fix nitrogen from the air, which I think judging by some of your posts, you may well be :whistling: :lol:


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## bigbob33 (Jan 19, 2009)

Just out of interest, could you still obtain maximum growth without protien as long as you consumed enough amino acids in supliment form?

I find the whole nutrition thing is something I lack real knowledge of!


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

essexboy said:


> OK time for some cold hard facts not speculation and "fear" that lack of protein, will hinder your growth.The following is a summary of an experiment for a book, ive had to type this, not cut/paste, so pay attention.
> 
> Eddie Muller an 18 year old student was trained by Ellington Darden in Florida in the summer of 1984.He was pushed through 3 weekly fullbody workouts, his diet was progessive, each week his calorific intake increased.His average intake was 3068.Here is a sample daily menu.
> 
> ...


He's an 18 year old boy ffs lmao he would grow on custard creams!!!

When i first started training at 15-16 years old my diet was utter sh1t,along the lines of what he is doing there if not slightly worse tbh,did i gain,your fkn right i did,put on muscle,got leaner,did it stop?your fkn right it did lmao eventually plateued,upped food portions(as still had no concept of protein/carb/fats requirements at the time) and what happened,nothing much in the way of muscle growth but i did get fatter.......

Once again,as has been repeated god knows how many times on this forum in the last few months,if people want to believe this and follow that route then all power to them,lets come back in a year when i will be bigger,harder and stronger from doing it my way,who do you think will have gained more.

The thing that grates me with the likes of this sort of thing and likes of prodivers incessant droning on about what does and doesnt work as regards protein consumption is the proof is in the pudding,what do these guys look like that are telling you to do these things,and what do the guys look like who are telling you a large amount of protein along with other variables IS required if you want to see the gains of a hard training bodybuilder.

Now i dont deny you def get exceptions to the rule,but they are few and far between,as Rams said already for everyone person that is able to grow actual lean tissue with regularity on a lower protein intake you will find umpteen who wont grow on anywhere near as little an amount.

I'm actually flabergasted to the point of wondering if people are just ignorant for the sake of it.

Its interesting how the people look kicking and screaming you dont need large protein intake to gain,there are VERY few exceptions on this board.

makes me fkn laugh.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

ah sh1t i see plastic spastic got a rant in before me lmao


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

God said:


> 10% of 160 is less fat than 9% of 200. Think that was the point being made. In this case I agree it's pretty negligable though and he did lose fat.


Crossed puposes.He didnt weigh 200 after the 10 weeks,that was a few years later.At the start he weighed 160lbs, and the conclusion 176lbs.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

essexboy said:


> His starting weight was 160lbs.If you lose bodyfat % decreases, then yes youve lost fat!
> 
> No, not necessarily, let me break it down for you, it isnt difficult.
> 
> ...


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

rs007 said:


> I don't know if you are being serious or not IanStu, I hope you are joking.
> 
> The animals you mention - cows for example - have entirely different digestive systems to us, if we ate grass we woudl just sh1t it out - they have the digestive capability to get everything from it - and when you eat all fvcking day, thats a lot of stuff.
> 
> ...


Mate I wasnt talking about bodybuilders or even humans realy, I was talking generaly about the biological process involved. I know perfectly well that our digestive system is very different from say a cow, but it was just a general point that muscle can be built from a diet that is entirely vegitation based.

As I said whole nations have survived on little else but rice, now I know rice has protein in it but in very low quantities and has low levels of essential amino acids.

But I think my point is valid...remember that a nice juicy steak is made from nothing but grass!

Edit...just for the record I have a huge protein intake as I find its the only way I grow...and i dont eat grass....hardly anyway


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

God said:


> Which is why I did say it was negligible and not applicable in this scenario. Your statement saying that if bf% goes down then you lost fat, isn't quite right that's all. Just splitting hairs. :thumb:


please explain.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

bigbob33 said:


> Just out of interest, could you still obtain maximum growth without protien as long as you consumed enough amino acids in supliment form?
> 
> I find the whole nutrition thing is something I lack real knowledge of!


mate as just stated,amino acids ARE protein.

I seen a beaut of a piece of info in last months muscular developmnent,Mark Alvasi new ifbb pro talking about amino's,saying its important to consume them with meals and the bonus is they DONT have any calorific value!!!

erm ok mark.....


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

If you don't eat enough actual protein, the body can and does make the small amounts of certain amino acids it needs from carbohydrates - many of which do in fact contain some nitrogen - but not all.

This is because humans have evolved as omnivores to get their essential amino acids from animal sources.

We certainly don't need as much carbohydrates as is suggested - until only relatively recently in our evolution we didn't farm, and so ate virtually no cereals, but fruit and vegetables and occasionally honey.

And we certainly thrive on lots of meat, eggs, milk, cheese (preserved milk) and nuts.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

For some reason i cant quote you previous post 007.His bodyfat % loss was measured, on skinfold calipers,(from 31 to 24mm.)I didnt make that clear.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

God said:


> I explained as RS007 did regarding bf%. 10% of 160 is 16. 9% of 200 is 18. The lower body fat percentage has more 2lbs more fat. I did mention that in your example he did lose fat and therefore not applicable however the statement if your bodyfat pecentage goes down then you've lost fat, isn't correct. Not sure what you want me to explain. :confused1:


200 is not relevent in the context of this conversation! only his starting and finishing weight, 160 & 176.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

God said:


> Still not an entirely accurate way of measuring body fat %. Ok as a guide but if you want an accurate reading it needs to be hydrostatic or something like a bod pod.


Ok maybe so.I dont think that the technology was as readily available.25 years ago.However he LOST fat from beneath his muscles.This thread is becomnig tiresome God.Im out.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

IanStu said:


> Mate I wasnt talking about bodybuilders or even humans realy, I was talking generaly about the biological process involved. I know perfectly well that our digestive system is very different from say a cow, but it was just a general point that muscle can be built from a diet that is entirely vegitation based.
> 
> Ian of course it can - but the beef on a cow is still constructed from a framework of protein and that comes from its diet - and grass DOES have protien, small amount granted, but like all vegetation eaters it garners this by putting a huge amount through, having an efficient digestive system, or both.
> 
> ...


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Prodiver said:


> If you don't eat enough actual protein, the body can and does make the small amounts of certain amino acids it needs from carbohydrates - many of which do in fact contain some nitrogen - but not all.


Misleading in the first, and I suspect wrong (practically) in the second.

First - the body can make amino acids, the non essential ones BUT ONLY if the relevant ESSENTIAL amino acids are present, if they arent, you are onto plums, as they say.

If the essential aminos are missing, body proteins (muscle anyone) are broken down to supply them.

Secondly - what carbs practically available in our diets have any appreciable amount of nitrogen Pat? You'll know this Pat, but for the benefit of those that don't, *Carbo* (carbon)* Hydr* (Hydrogen)* Ate* (conventional nomenclature meaning presence of oxygen)

I am not saying you are wrong, but I suspect for practical reasons, in the food stuffs we encounter, that you are...


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

Ramsay likes protein


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

essexboy said:


> For some reason i cant quote you previous post 007.His bodyfat % loss was measured, on skinfold calipers,(from 31 to 24mm.)I didnt make that clear.


Got you mate, misread - sorry mate, my bad. Measured, not calculated from previous. :thumbup1:

Still don't rate skin fold testing at all - what if he had just lost a lot of SC water? Just one possible pitfall, but I concede its like arguing over spilt salt really, the guy gained, and most of it was lean - I don't disput that at all.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

IanStu said:


> Ramsay likes protein


 :lol:

Hate the stuff :whistling:

Unfortunately it is a necessity in good amounts, for me and most other average folk :cursing:


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

I'm just preparing my grass, will it be ok to mix it with mayonaisse :lol:


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> I'm just preparing my grass, will it be ok to mix it with mayonaisse :lol:


yes but you need loads...I blend mine in a cement mixer....bon apatite


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

tel3563 said:


> I'm just preparing my grass, will it be ok to mix it with mayonaisse :lol:


 :lol:

I remember without a word of a lie, me and a few mates when we were just young lads were running about the shore playing soldiers. Well in amongs the dunes was infected with rabbits, and one of the lads wasnt so bright... we heard him saying "hey guys, somebody has dropped lots of sweets".

The idiot was eating rabbit sh1t, apparently when they crap it out, the cellulose in it is partially broken down to simple sugars and it has sweetness, they then re-eat it to get another go at it as it were, so I've been told.

The look on this idiots face when we told him, total spanner job

No it wasnt me


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

just a quick serious question to Ramsay..or anyone realy I guess....I'm eating about 4000 cals and 50% of that is from protein....I'm making the best gains ever but I'm a little worried about the old protein/kidney overload malarky....do you think I can stay on that level indefinately or should I have periods on lower doses?


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

rs007 said:


> :lol:
> 
> I remember without a word of a lie, me and a few mates when we were just young lads were running about the shore playing soldiers. Well in amongs the dunes was infected with rabbits, and one of the lads wasnt so bright... we heard him saying "hey guys, somebody has dropped lots of sweets".
> 
> ...


Are you sure it wasn't you Rams, could explain why you talk sh1te:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

IanStu said:


> just a quick serious question to Ramsay..or anyone realy I guess....I'm eating about 4000 cals and 50% of that is from protein....I'm making the best gains ever but I'm a little worried about the old protein/kidney overload malarky....do you think I can stay on that level indefinately or should I have periods on lower doses?


Your having 500g of protein per day, that is a lot of fecking protein for somebody

who's 11 stone Ian:whistling:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

in that situ Ian your taking in waaaaaaaaaay to much prot for where your at mate,cut it back buy at least a 100g and save yoursefl some cash you loon.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

I agree with Tel Ian, I mean I am getting 400g a day, and my gut feeling is that this is a little too much for me, but can't judge until I am leaner and see just how much muscle I am going to end up with - I'll dial it in as I go.

Hell I am only 3200 calories a day jsut now, mind you I am dieting, albeit gently and with full expectance of adding a bit of muscle...

As for the kidney issue, I'll be honest mate - I don't know. Does anyone.

What I do know is that blood pressure is one of the worst for the kidneys as it can damage the delicate filtering aparatus in there, so high protien plus high blood pressure = logically a bad situation.

So I'd keep the blood pressure well in check if you plan on keeping protein that high, but I think you would gain just as well on less - maybe not initially because your system is used to having the luxury of 500g, but once its readjusted.

The other option is to just stay there and get bloods/pis$ tests done fairly regular.

You can buy test sticks for all sorts of stuff in your pis$, protein etc, those are probably a good idea for early warning, and something I think I will get myself, in the new year.

All just my opinion Ian.


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> Your having 500g of protein per day, that is a lot of fecking protein for somebody
> 
> who's 11 stone Ian:whistling:


cvnt...I'm 14.5 stone as you well know  and magnificent with it:thumb:


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

I know, I know, still a lot of protein, I remember when I upped my protein to roughly the

same figure, I was slightly heavier but I remember feeling very sluggish and not at all well

You have any issues and how long you been on 500g pday??


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

weeman said:


> in that situ Ian your taking in waaaaaaaaaay to much prot for where your at mate,cut it back buy at least a 100g and save yoursefl some cash you loon.





rs007 said:


> I agree with Tel Ian, I mean I am getting 400g a day, and my gut feeling is that this is a little too much for me, but can't judge until I am leaner and see just how much muscle I am going to end up with - I'll dial it in as I go.
> 
> Hell I am only 3200 calories a day jsut now, mind you I am dieting, albeit gently and with full expectance of adding a bit of muscle...
> 
> ...


OK so the general opinion is i'm taking way to much...the only reason my intake is so high is my gains have improved in line with my increase in protein so I've sort of kept adding more to my diet......I have been worried its too high....I'll try cutting back and see how I fair...I think I should get my bloods done though...havent had any tests for ages


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

what exactly happens to excess protein that the body doesn't require, does it turn to fat?

Do we p1ss it out? (somebody told me this) or is it simply excreted?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

IanStu said:


> cvnt...I'm 14.5 stone as you well know  and magnificent with it:thumb:


Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are a stone off being shredded. You wont be, almost always, people are further off/have more to lose than they think, but lets say you are.

My opinion, and that of many others, is that for maintenance, you should be aiming for around 1.8ish g per lb

So, 13.5 stone = 189lb = 340g - add, say, 20g for growth margin (guesstimate)

And that is 360g per day

What would be really interesting would be if you lowered your protein to that, but kept daily calories the same - 4000 - by compensating with good carbs, or fats.

I think you would probably gain just as well, but save a bit of wonga, always nice.

Thats just my opinion though, feel free to ignore.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

IanStu said:


> OK so the general opinion is i'm taking way to much...the only reason my intake is so high is my gains have improved in line with my increase in protein so I've sort of kept adding more to my diet......I have been worried its too high....I'll try cutting back and see how I fair...I think I should get my bloods done though...havent had any tests for ages


I'd actually play it by ear, think about it

If your gaining without excess bf and feeling good then why change it, you may

have a natural tendancy to need more protein than me, weeman, rams or anyone on here.

I'd keep an eye on the bp though, if thats up get some celery juice down you

You can still have the tests:thumbup1:

Have your weights been going up at the same time? Are you still on test?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

IanStu said:


> OK so the general opinion is i'm taking way to much...the only reason my intake is so high is my gains have improved in line with my increase in protein so I've sort of kept adding more to my diet......I have been worried its too high....I'll try cutting back and see how I fair...I think I should get my bloods done though...havent had any tests for ages


Thats all it is mate, is opinion - if you are gaining and happy - then you go for it.

It could be though, that there is way more than enough protein in there, and the extra gainage has been supported not so much by the protien for building material, but it being used as calories for energy - just a bit of out loud thinking, but the fact is, you are gaining, just be best to make sure you are doing ok on the inside, if you are worried.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Misleading in the first, and I suspect wrong (practically) in the second.
> 
> First - the body can make amino acids, the non essential ones BUT ONLY if the relevant ESSENTIAL amino acids are present, if they arent, you are onto plums, as they say.
> 
> ...


Duh!  To be accurate, the nitrogen comes with the carbohydrate-containing foods. Nearly all the carbohydrate containing foods we eat like potatoes, pasta and fruit carry some nitrogen. Potatoes and beans are exemplary nitrogen-fixing plants.

And AFAIR, in the absense of sufficient protein the body will always attempt to make amino acids, even if the essential ones are absent.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

tel3563 said:


> what exactly happens to excess protein that the body doesn't require, does it turn to fat?
> 
> Do we p1ss it out? (somebody told me this) or is it simply excreted?


General consensus is that they are converted to fatty acids and glucose, and then follow their metabolic pathway, ie get used for energy, or stored.

The POTENTIAL is there for them to be stored as fat, but the key word there is potential. I you keep an eye on the mirror and have half a clue about what you are doing, this wont be an issue - excess of anything can potentially be stored as fat, doesnt mean it will.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

IanStu said:


> yes but you need loads...I blend mine in a cement mixer....bon *apatite*


"Apatite: a widely ocurring pale green to purple mineral, consisting of calcium phosphate with some fluorine, chlorine and other elements. It is used in the manufacture of fertilizers."

:laugh:


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

rs007 said:


> General consensus is that they are converted to fatty acids and glucose, and then follow their metabolic pathway, ie get used for energy, or stored.
> 
> The POTENTIAL is there for them to be stored as fat, but the key word there is potential. I you keep an eye on the mirror and have half a clue about what you are doing, this wont be an issue - excess of anything can potentially be stored as fat, doesnt mean it will.


Cheers Ramsay:thumbup1:


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks for your replies lads....I had this daft idea in my head that I wanted to be 15 stone by Christmas (I wont do it)...I have always strugled to gain any weight even fat....but in the last few months my weight has shot up partly due to my weekly test jab I know, but also I'm sure my high protein has had a large part in it, I have very low bf now (visible abbs) but I'm still gaining weight.

I think I need to get some tests done to put my mind at rest...thanks again for your opinions


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> "Apatite: a widely ocurring pale green to purple mineral, consisting of calcium phosphate with some fluorine, chlorine and other elements. It is used in the manufacture of fertilizers."
> 
> :laugh:


yes its a staple of my diet....ummmm savory :lol:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Prodiver said:


> Duh!  To be accurate, the nitrogen comes with the carbohydrate-containing foods. Nearly all the carbohydrate containing foods we eat like potatoes, pasta and fruit carry some nitrogen. Potatoes and beans are exemplary nitrogen-fixing plants.
> 
> OK, so you have changed what you said, you said some carbohydrates contain nitrogen, which is misleading... a simple mistake, we all make em
> 
> ...


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

rs007 said:


> General consensus is that they are converted to fatty acids and glucose, and then follow their metabolic pathway, ie get used for energy, or stored.
> 
> The POTENTIAL is there for them to be stored as fat, but the key word there is potential. I you keep an eye on the mirror and have half a clue about what you are doing, this wont be an issue - excess of anything can potentially be stored as fat, doesnt mean it will.


Nice succinct explanation from Wikkipedia:

"When taken up into the human body from the diet, the twenty one standard amino acids are either used to synthesize proteins and other biomolecules or oxidized to urea and carbon dioxide as a source of energy... Glucogenic amino acids can also be converted into glucose, through gluconeogenesis.

"... Of the twenty-one standard amino acids, eight are called essential amino acids because the human body cannot synthesize them from other compounds at the level needed for normal growth, so they must be obtained from food. However, the situation is quite complicated since cysteine, taurine, tyrosine, histidine and arginine are semiessential amino acids in children, because the metabolic pathways that synthesize these amino acids are not fully developed. The amounts required also depend on the age and health of the individual, so it is hard to make general statements about the dietary requirement for some amino acids."


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Prodiver said:


> Nice succinct explanation from Wikkipedia:
> 
> "When taken up into the human body from the diet, the twenty one standard amino acids are either used to synthesize proteins and other biomolecules or oxidized to urea and carbon dioxide as a source of energy... Glucogenic amino acids can also be converted into glucose, through gluconeogenesis.
> 
> "... Of the twenty-one standard amino acids, eight are called essential amino acids because the human body cannot synthesize them from other compounds at the level needed for normal growth, so they must be obtained from food. However, the situation is quite complicated since cysteine, taurine, tyrosine, histidine and arginine are semiessential amino acids in children, because the metabolic pathways that synthesize these amino acids are not fully developed. *The amounts required also depend on the age and health of the individual*, so it is hard to make general statements about the dietary requirement for some amino acids."


Now this along with Ians post has suddenly got me thinking, what if as we get

older we require more protein. Sort of makes sense as when you see really old

people (no offence Ian) then you notice that there muscles almost seem to

be jelly like, and saggy.

Hence, Ians ontake of a lot more protein has meant his muscles are now getting

the elevated numbers of protein that they need to maintain or grow

I know this in principal is true to everyone, but in the more mature BBer, like

myself and Ian, it could be that we've been missing the point, and in fact, as we

get older, we need to up our protein to body mass numbers

Thoughts?


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

tel3563 said:


> Now this along with Ians post has suddenly got me thinking, what if as we get
> 
> older we require more protein. Sort of makes sense as when you see really old
> 
> ...


very good point mate,and defo could well explain that 'look' that a lot of the older guys have.

Also would be interesting to know what some of the guys in the masters classes are doing RE this sort of thing,i already know a few who compete from their early 40's up into their late forties/early fifties,and certainly their protein consumption is in the 1.8g per lbs+ region.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

weeman said:


> very good point mate,and defo could well explain that 'look' that a lot of the older guys have.
> 
> Also would be interesting to know what some of the guys in the masters classes are doing RE this sort of thing,i already know a few who compete from their early 40's up into their late forties/early fifties,and certainly their protein consumption is in the 1.8g per lbs+ region.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I love your edit


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> Now this along with Ians post has suddenly got me thinking, what if as we get
> 
> older we require more protein. Sort of makes sense as when you see really old
> 
> ...


That is a good point...never thought of it as an age thing

I wonder at what point we can no longer increase muscle mass...I think about this quite alot...there are a few guys at my gym in their 50's and they all have that saggy stringy look to their muscles, and I think fvck that could be me in a few years, I'm pretty sure none of em take gear though, so I'm hoping that will keep me going for a bit longer, I'll fight it as long as I can


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

IanStu said:


> That is a good point...never thought of it as an age thing
> 
> I wonder at what point we can no longer increase muscle mass...I think about this quite alot...there are a few guys at my gym in their 50's and they all have that saggy stringy look to their muscles, and I think fvck that could be me in a few years, I'm pretty sure none of em take gear though, so I'm hoping that will keep me going for a bit longer, I'll fight it as long as I can


It would be interesting to know what them guys protein intake is, plus they'd

have to be working out to the proper intensity, not just going through the motions

so to speak


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## Hamiltons Gym (Feb 10, 2009)

Yes, it's mostly a myth put up the manufacturers of the supplements. They pay for the ads on most forums and magazines so their line is the one that everyone hears.

You need some extra protein, but not that much. Your main concern should be adding extra starchy, slow release carbs to your diet.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

My brother is in his 50's, he used to be built, bench 120, squat 150. Now he's a shadow

of himself, won't even let me train with him as he's so embarassed, he struggles to bench

60kg now, his weight has dropped from 12 stone to about 10 stone (he's shorter than me)

Hasn't done any gear ever, I've told him to get some trt but he has other issues that

may not be conjusive to this ie, depression, anger issues.

I'm still sure it would make him feel a lot better about himself although I'm no expert so

I don't push it, wouldn't like him to go over the edge


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> My brother is in his 50's, he used to be built, bench 120, squat 150. Now he's a shadow
> 
> of himself, won't even let me train with him as he's so embarassed, he struggles to bench
> 
> ...


yes I've seen that happen to friends of mine...and it seems to happen almost overnight which makes it all the more shocking.

As far as gear goes, I've become a bit evangelical about it, I always tell any older guys that if they are thinking about it then do it...worked wonders for me...just wish I had done it earlier, about as close to a magic potion as I'm ever gonna get :thumbup1:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Hamiltons Gym said:


> Yes, it's mostly a myth put up the manufacturers of the supplements. They pay for the ads on most forums and magazines so their line is the one that everyone hears.
> 
> You need some extra protein, but not that much. Your main concern should be adding extra starchy, slow release carbs to your diet.


  i give up..........


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

looking at the first question i dont know whether my poitn has already been raised (I cant be ****d to read ten pages)

your soon is probably taking in a relatively high protein intake for his size

lets say that he is 60lbs and consumes 60g of protein he will only be getting 240kcals a day and will clearly need more than this as a growing child! as such alot of his food will be made up of energy giving macronutrients (carbs and fats) - yet his grams of protein per pound of bodyweight would still be very high - roughly 1g/lb or 2.2/kg a day which falls in line with what most recommend for growth of lean tissue

now 60g of protein isnt hard to get for a kid without really trying such as

Half pint milk - 9g<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Cheese sandwich - 15g<o></o>

Yoghurt - 5g<o></o>

Small serving of meat with dinner - 10-12g<o></o>

Protein from carb sources (i.e contained within wheat such as pasta, rice, cereals etc) - 10g<o></o>

Small bag of nuts - 5-8g<o></o>

easy for a child to eat these common foods and get a high relative protein intake per kilo of bodyweight

there is SO much clinical evidence showing higher protein intake is required both for nitrogen balance and increases in strength and muscle gains - even conservative sports dieticians reommend 1.7g/kg a day so its not the protein manufacturers really


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

God said:


> :lol:
> 
> Is Prot*ei*n a myth? No. All good bodybuilders eat loads of the stuff. A lot is clearly needed. There you go weeman!


yaaaay,my faith is reinstated lmao


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

weeman said:


> yaaaay,my faith is reinstated lmao


At the end of the day weeman it does not matter what other people do does it? I mean you keep pounding down as much protein as can be found in the Scottish highlands and other people like me can stay feeble and small


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

*JUST FVCKING EAT THE STUFF AND GROW FFS!!*

*
*

*
*

*
*

*
*


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Dan said:


> *JUST FVCKING EAT THE STUFF AND GROW FFS!!*


Or just up the dose :whistling:


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

ah24 said:


> Or just up the dose :whistling:


And that too. :thumb:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> ... his grams of protein per pound of bodyweight would still be *very high* - roughly *1g/lb or 2.2/kg a day* which falls in line with what most recommend for growth of lean tissue...


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Con said:


> At the end of the day weeman it does not matter what other people do does it? I mean you keep pounding down as much protein as can be found in the Scottish highlands and other people like me can stay feeble and small


lolol no bother you skinny little feeb:lol: :lol:

I dont just cram the protein n for the sake of it though mate,going by the 1.8g per lbs rule i aim to get in between 380-400g per day,which would equate to a lean stage weight of between 210-224lbs,which is what my aim is to be next time around when i step up to the bright lights

lets use my own bodyweights on stage as an example here-

2006 first time i stepped on stage,bodyweight was 187lbs my protein intake at the time was 340g,187x1.8=336.6

2006 6 months later second show,stepped onstage at 194lbs,protein was 355g,194x1.8=349.2

2008 next time i competed the last show of the season i stepped on stage at 203lbs,protein intake was 370g,203x1.8=366.6

2009 last year isnt a good example as was in such bad condition for reasons in my personal life,long story short resulted in losing muscle,but regardless,stepped on stage (a smooth) 206lbs,protein intake was 380g,206x1.8=370.8.

All diets started off with a protein figure of around 30g higher than stated and the figure dropped as i went along,as i got leaner it gets easier to guestimate stage weight and so pin the protein in accordance.

Now surely thats a bit too coincidental.......

Also,and think this is probably this is a most valid point,the vast majority of guys on here who ask for dietry help in order to further their gains post up their diets,now luckily,tho not always,the vast majority arent retards and have figured out beforehand that protein intake needs to be higher than the average sentient being and as such is usually within the realms of 150-250g of protein a day,number one thing they are all told to do is up the protein a bit,certainly the countless guys that have contacted me its the first thing i tell them to do,and oddly,they all get back in touch weeks later to let me know that it really did the trick.

What is your actual protein intake Con,i know you've poated it up before but can i fook remember where lol


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Prodiver I am presuming the reason why you bolded certain wordings was that compared to some thats not a very high intake (i.e those who take in around 3.5g/kg as shown in studies by dragan et al and lean gains in weight lifters)

I was meaning very high compared to the ultra staunch recommendations of 0.8/kg day as the goverment recommends


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

weeman said:


> What is your actual protein intake Con,i know you've poated it up before but can i fook remember where lol


I over do intake also mate i do 6 meals of 50 protein per day thus 300 grams which is basically 1.5 grams per lb of lean weight (currently 225lb and calipers put me in at 9%, all muscle groups visable decent vascularity)


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Con said:


> I over do intake also mate i do 6 meals of 50 protein per day thus 300 grams which is basically 1.5 grams per lb of lean weight *(currently 225lb and calipers put me in at 9%, all muscle groups visable decent vascularity)*


225 at 5'8'' with 20 inch lean pipes and muscle hanging off you,you jammy pr1ck:cursing: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

weeman said:


> 225 at 5'8'' with 20 inch lean pipes and muscle hanging off you,you jammy pr1ck:cursing: :lol: :lol:


20 inch guns? You are mistaking me for you mate. My arms are a touch under 19 inches completely decarbed. I have a strange shape kind of like a gorilla, very long arms big back with a strange ape like expression on my face at all times:laugh:

Plus i must mention my only other calorie intake is via fat in the form of 120grams per day hence protein is a tad higher than i normally have it.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

tel3563 said:


> Now this along with Ians post has suddenly got me thinking, what if as we get older we require more protein. Sort of makes sense as when you see really old people (no offence Ian) then you notice that there muscles almost seem to be jelly like, and saggy. Hence, Ians ontake of a lot more protein has meant his muscles are now getting the elevated numbers of protein that they need to maintain or grow
> 
> I know this in principal is true to everyone, but in the more mature BBer, like myself and Ian, it could be that we've been missing the point, and in fact, as we get older, we need to up our protein to body mass numbers
> 
> Thoughts?


Partly. Age related muscle decline is complex & multifactorial and there is some uncertainty as to those factors and the impact on muscle loss [ Sarcopenia: Current Concepts. Roubenoffa R, Hughes V ].

One of the main factors is thought to be a change in innervation, however there are lots of endocrine and metabolic changes at work too.

One of the factors in sarcopenia is an insensitivity of the mammalian target of rapamycin ( mTOR ) to Leucine. Research in animal models show that increasing leucine intake in aged animals restored mTOR signalling [Leucine: a key amino acid in ageing-associated sarcopenia? Dardevet D, Rieu I, et al].

J


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## Drew Price (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes there is some interesting research out of UEA for example on protein mTOR etc etc but of course as they demonstrate inflammation is a big factor and this is attributable to other dietary factors. So you see...

you can't just take any one nutrient and discuss it on it's own, out of context.

That said muscle isn't the only reason to eat protein: http://drewprice.co.uk/blog/?p=351


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

Drew Price said:


> Yes there is some interesting research out of UEA for example on protein mTOR etc etc but of course as they demonstrate inflammation is a big factor and this is attributable to other dietary factors. So you see...
> 
> you can't just take any one nutrient and discuss it on it's own, out of context.
> 
> ...


I think that there are a few other factors than diet which can lead to increased inflammation in the aged, but of course diet will play a part.

What research from UEA were you thinking of in particular?

J


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## Squeeeze (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes, it's a myth! The key to insane growth is ...... thumb sucking ... ask euroboys nipper.


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