# Is pyramiding detrimental ??



## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

When training on most of my sets, regardless of what bodypart i am training i tend to pyramid the weight. what i would like to know is would i be better off doing a standard 3x12 with a few walm up set with the same weight? i also know its goot to mix rep ranges around, but i do also add in some drop sets and super sets, i supose i jst like pyramiding 

help appreciated :beer:


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## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

bump


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

I always pyramid up to my heavy sets i would not know how else to do it?

Be careful with supersets and drop sets as these often will be detrimential to growth compared to heavy straight sets. But i know the pump feels great lol.


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## scobielad (Feb 27, 2010)

My favourite pyramid set is seated bicep curls. This gives me an amazing pump in my arms like no other combinations of sets can. LOVE it!!


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2010)

I always pyramid up as well. I usually will go up to my heaviest weight for 2 sets at 6-8reps, and then finish with one set at a little lower weight (85-90%) for 10 reps.

I agree with Con on over-using super sets and drop sets. IMO far to many people use this method, to often, as they feel it gives them the sense of a good training session. It is amazing how many people use crazy high volumes. I am not saying that there isnt a place for it at times. and for a high level competitor who is heavily assisted it can more tolerated. For the average natty, I think the high volume all the time(with very poor focus on mind muscle connection) puts a limit on their potential growth.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't really think pyramiding is detrimental as imo it's just different terminology for doing progressive warm up sets before the main working ones.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

If you like it and its working for you, then keep doing it


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

DC training says its pointless. The sets leading up to your working set are wasting a lot of energy


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

i do it on every thing i couldnt squat 270k with out working m way up lol doing it on the way up is a deffo some people do it on the way back down but that is not that good imo


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## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

thanks for the replys guys.

i dont use methords like superset drop sets all the time, just on the odd exercise to finish me off, im more of a heavy weight low rep lifter not to keen on lots of volume


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2010)

GunnaGetBig said:


> DC training says its pointless.
> 
> I wasn't aware that DC training was the "law of the land"
> 
> ...


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

if im inclining 140k before 150k i still dnt count it as a working set its a heavy warm up lol i jus go to about 3-4 reps off fail then fail on 150k thats my 1 working set for this unless i go back to 140 or 120k for a max out set of high reps


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

GunnaGetBig said:


> DC training says its pointless. The sets leading up to your working set are wasting a lot of energy


Actually that's not true:confused1: Dante said the point of warm ups is to get blood into the muscle so it can be fully worked.

Any way trust me DC is not all that:whistling:


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

So you do 10 reps on 125k and count that as a working set.....why not save your energy and do more reps on 145k?


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

It was Max-OT training guide that I read it not DC my bad... :lol: :lol:


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## Themanabolic (Jun 25, 2009)

I think for the first exercise pyramiding up is a good idea, if anything to help stop injury and it gets me in a mindset to progressively lift more and more !


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2010)

GunnaGetBig said:


> So you do 10 reps on 125k and count that as a working set.....why not save your energy and do more reps on 145k?


Am I not "working" when using 125k? I am not that strong, but I am pretty sure that 125k for 10 reps is tearing down muscle fibers(for me anyways)? So that is why I consider it a "wroking set"..... and I have come to learn my body and know that 10 reps is excellant for building muscle tissue. In fact, every 4-6 weeks, I have a whole week of just 10-12 rep training and feel it benefits me greatly.


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

ZEUS said:


> Am I not "working" when using 125k? I am not that strong, but I am pretty sure that 125k for 10 reps is tearing down muscle fibers(for me anyways)? So that is why I consider it a "wroking set"..... and I have come to learn my body and know that 10 reps is excellant for building muscle tissue. In fact, every 4-6 weeks, I have a whole week of just 10-12 rep training and feel it benefits me greatly.


Exactly tearing down muscle fibres as you so put it which is detrimental to your actual working set...your heaviest set


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

GunnaGetBig said:


> Exactly tearing down muscle fibres as you so put it which is detrimental to your actual working set...your heaviest set


Gunnagetbig have you gotbig yet?


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2010)

GunnaGetBig said:


> Exactly tearing down muscle fibres as you so put it which is detrimental to your actual working set...your heaviest set


It *IS *an "actual" working set. Can you please explain to me why the *majority* of the pro's and high level competitors I have talked to use some form of pyramid training?????????????? They surely should be using your "alien east side hardcore training" principles..... or whatever it is you called it. Oh thats right. You weren't even sure what you were referring to in your first post


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

Lois_Lane said:


> Gunnagetbig have you gotbig yet?


Bigger than when I started yes but I'm a natty that don't eat enough ....


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

ZEUS said:


> It *IS *an "actual" working set. Can you please explain to me why the *majority* of the pro's and high level competitors I have talked to use some form of pyramid training?????????????? They surely should be using your "alien east side hardcore training" principles..... or whatever it is you called it. Oh thats right. You weren't even sure what you were referring to to begin with


The literature explains it better than I can late at night...

*Warming Up The Right Way.*

Here we are going to take the Bench Press and show you a proper warm-up technique that will allow you to lift more weight on your heavy sets. Remember, more weight -more overload - more muscle.

Again well use 275 as your heavy weight. If you typically warm-up and train like I pointed out earlier the 275 will feel a lot lighter this time.

First Set: 135 x 12 reps (warm-up)

These should be good smooth reps. Not too slow and not to fast. Your main goal is to increase blood flow and get the feel of the movement and the weight. After this first set you should rest about 2 minutes.

Second Set: 135 x 10 reps (warm-up)

Same weight as before. Rhythm should be a little faster this time. Not much faster. Rest about 2 minutes.

Third Set: 185 x 6 reps (warm-up)

This should be a deliberate set done at a moderate pace. This is the next step in weight acclimation. It should feel light and 4 reps should be very easy. Rest about 2 to 3 minutes before the next set.

Fourth Set: 225 x 3 reps (weight acclimation)

You should follow the same rhythm as in the last set. 3 strong reps. Rest 2 minutes before next set.

Fifth Set: 255 x 1 rep (weight acclimation)

That's right, just 1 rep. The purpose here is weight acclimation. This should be a strong, powerful and deliberate rep.

Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Set: 285 x 4 to 6 reps (muscle-building)

These are the muscle building sets. Very important. These are the only sets that produce muscle growth. All the sets leading up to these heavy sets are merely warmup sets and are treated as just that and nothing more.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2010)

Oh FFS!!! A copy and paster:cursingnot reading)

*I give up!!!!!*

Rock on mate:thumbup1:

Do whatever works for you....


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

ZEUS said:


> Oh FFS!!! A copy and paster:cursingnot reading)
> 
> *I give up!!!!!*
> 
> ...


:laugh: I normally stop reading when some one copies and pastes also. If i wanted to discuss the article i would speak with the articles creator.....

Honestly i don't truly understand the point of the question.

BUT i do know that if you don't warm up a muscle get the blood in there before trying to go all out with max weights you will tear the muscle i have done this and it set me back a long time never again!


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

Hahaha ok guys whatever....easy way out of an argument I guess


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

GunnaGetBig said:


> Hahaha ok guys whatever....easy way out of an argument I guess


Tell you what mate i am pretty bored right now so i will argue with you.

Tell me what you belief and i will argue against it:beer:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Tell you what mate i am pretty bored right now so i will argue with you.
> 
> Tell me what you belief and i will argue against it:beer:


 lol if hr sais you are awsome!


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

Lois_Lane said:


> Tell you what mate i am pretty bored right now so i will argue with you.
> 
> Tell me what you belief and i will argue against it:beer:


Tell me where the warm-up I pasted is going wrong compared to the usual technique of pyramiding


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

ZEUS said:


> Oh FFS!!! A copy and paster:cursingnot reading)
> 
> *I give up!!!!!*
> 
> ...


what he is saying is why not do say 6 with 120k and do more on ur work set of 145? more stress on the muscle in this set? then go back to 120 for high rep if you want? why take up reps from the final work set? if you then get more reps out of the 145 set this would be better? imo i think he is right unless im missing it? i know you are working but why bother till the heavyest set? then do a lighter but still as challenging set. i think this was the point

not sure on the copy and paste i didnt ead it lol


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Well why do 135lb for two sets this is just a waste of energy.

How i would do it let say today as i was using 315lb for my working sets for bench press i went....

135lb 8 reps

225lb 8 reps

315lb x3 sets for i think it was 12/9/7 reps (2 weeks out so not feeling very strong compared to normal lol)

There are different ways to go about it. Eastern block weight lifting uses a high number of low repetition sets at 70-80% max range then you have HIT trainers who just do enough warm ups to allow their cns to wake up and to allow the muscles to fill with enough blood to have enough cushioning to withstand the heavy set that follows.

Warm up however you like really it depends on the training method you are following.

Just make sure you treat warm ups with the same respect that you would a "heavy" set as you can still get hurt with lighter weights. Hell i have hurt my self getting out of bed before no weights needed LOL.

BUT one thing i learned while powerlifting is never do back down sets because the muscle remembers the last final heavy set. Not sure if this applies to bodybuilding but i never do back down sets i work to my max weight and after that i do a new exercise.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

big_jim_87 said:


> what he is saying is why not do say 6 with 120k


because 6 imo(at that point) would be a waste. I feel that the 10 rep set is as optimal for growth(if not more), as the 6 reps at max weight after. If I were a powerlifter, or only interested in strength, than I may save all my energy for 4-6 rep max sets. But I am not a power lifter, or a strongman, and I am building my body at 125k. Furthermore, I really Don't think taking out the 125k for 10 would dramatically change my heaviest sets. I am pushing that sh1te up no matter what!!! Thats how I roll

Fcuk it....I am eating a handful of dbols and going to the gym for some "DC electro high volume modified alpha" training.. Anyone heard of the these training principles?:laugh::laugh::laugh: :tongue:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Well why do 135lb for two sets this is just a waste of energy.
> 
> How i would do it let say today as i was using 315lb for my working sets for bench press i went....
> 
> ...


i only do 1 work set.

ok what i do when not injured

40kx15-20

80kx12

120kx6

150kx5 (work set)

then if i feel like 120k till fail (lighte work set if feel like it)

the 1st three sets are very easy


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

big_jim_87 said:


> what he is saying is why not do say 6 with 120k and do more on ur work set of 145? more stress on the muscle in this set? then go back to 120 for high rep if you want? why take up reps from the final work set? if you then get more reps out of the 145 set this would be better? imo i think he is right unless im missing it? i know you are working but why bother till the heavyest set? then do a lighter but still as challenging set. i think this was the point
> 
> not sure on the copy and paste i didnt ead it lol


Yes that's the idea



Lois_Lane said:


> Well why do 135lb for two sets this is just a waste of energy.
> 
> How i would do it let say today as i was using 315lb for my working sets for bench press i went....
> 
> ...


See your training is different to Zues's. You got three proper working sets on the same worrkign weight where as he was counting his warmup as a working set.

I agree with the two 135 sets. Slightly unnecessary but with it being your lightest weight I doubt you will lose any energy.

So I take it this approach is pretty much the HIT approach you described. The set of 3 and 1 rep warmups are used to prime the cns. Zues does the complete opposite to this though and uses these priming sets as working sets


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Well why do 135lb for two sets this is just a waste of energy.
> 
> How i would do it let say today as i was using 315lb for my working sets for bench press i went....
> 
> ...


thing is i dnt do it hard at all i do the back down set for more reps and actualy push it hard not easy. only ever one heavy work set i push the heavy set so hard if i got 5 id only get 1 or 2 reps max as im dead


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

GunnaGetBig said:


> See your training is different to Zues's. You got three proper working sets on the same worrkign weight where as he was counting his warmup as a working set.
> 
> I agree with the two 135 sets. Slightly unnecessary but with it being your lightest weight I doubt you will lose any energy.
> 
> So I take it this approach is pretty much the HIT approach you described. The set of 3 and 1 rep warmups are used to prime the cns. Zues does the complete opposite to this though and uses these priming sets as working sets


But that's not even how i normally train my friend.

Normally i take a more HIT approach and i only record my heaviest working set. BUT this is not the only way to do it. You have to stop looking for the ONE perfect way to do some thing. Your body will dictate how you need to do things and trust me building a body has nothing to do with following some gimmic program like DC. Even though i love some of the principles you have to adjust to your self.

Thing is you can't always lift as much as you did last time the body is not a machine if you try to make it like one you will just break it.......

EVERY SINGLE set counts as work at the end of the day because every single set does take ATP and other energy reserves to perform it. Thus whether you count it or not on a piece of paper does not mean it has or has not happened. I hope this makes some sense


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

GunnaGetBig said:


> Yes that's the idea
> 
> See your training is different to Zues's. You got three proper working sets on the same worrkign weight where as he was counting his warmup as a working set.
> 
> Please tell me where I said I counted my "warm-up" as a working set? My "warm up" is 135lbs(2plates)x15 and 225lbs(4 plates)x12


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Last time i checked my body is "working" when i lift 10lb or 1000lb.....


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

ZEUS said:


> because 6 imo(at that point) would be a waste. I feel that the 10 rep set is as optimal for growth(if not more), as the 6 reps at max weight after. If I were a powerlifter, or only interested in strength, than I may save all my energy for 4-6 rep max sets. But I am not a power lifter, or a strongman, and I am building my body at 125k. Furthermore, I really Don't think taking out the 125k for 10 would dramatically change my heaviest sets. I am pushing that sh1te up no matter what!!! Thats how I roll
> 
> Fcuk it....I am eating a handful of dbols and going to the gym for some "DC electro high volume modified alpha" training.. Anyone heard of the these training principles?:laugh::laugh::laugh: :tongue:


well each to ther own buddy but aftr you push so hard on the 2nd to last how can you push as hard on the last set? last set is the working set


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Lois_Lane said:


> EVERY SINGLE set counts as work at the end of the day because every single set does take ATP and other energy reserves to perform it. Thus whether you count it or not on a piece of paper does not mean it has or has not happened. I hope this makes some sense


Thank you:thumbup1: Would rep you again if I could


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

ZEUS said:


> Thank you:thumbup1: Would rep you again if I could


It took me now to understand what we were even talking about, i was making it far more complicated in my head than it actually was:laugh:

Lift heavy+food+rest=growth i thought even us dumb meat heads could grasp this:lol:

Perform 1000 sets with 10lb and tell me your body did not work, lol it probably will not grow but work it will!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> But that's not even how i normally train my friend.
> 
> Normally i take a more HIT approach and i only record my heaviest working set. BUT this is not the only way to do it. You have to stop looking for the ONE perfect way to do some thing. Your body will dictate how you need to do things and trust me building a body has nothing to do with following some gimmic program like DC. Even though i love some of the principles you have to adjust to your self.
> 
> ...


makes perfect sence but why waste more atp on the earlyer sets?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

big_jim_87 said:


> well each to ther own buddy but aftr you push so hard on the 2nd to last how can you push as hard on the last set? last set is the working set


That's cool mate. You tell yourself what a working set is.... and I will tell myself what a working set is:thumbup1:

I still love you(non gay love)...... you litte cnut:tongue:


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

big_jim_87 said:


> well each to ther own buddy but aftr you push so hard on the 2nd to last how can you push as hard on the last set? last set is the working set


Thats exactly my point!


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

This thread has cheered me up how many people on this earth spend their Saturday evenings discussing the difference between what a working set is LMAO:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Last time i checked my body is "working" when i lift 10lb or 1000lb.....


lol yes but to a different extent? do less reps and save the atp for the working set of 1000lb lol


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> lol yes but to a different extent? do less reps and save the atp for the working set of 1000lb lol


For what purpose though? For the endurance athlete the higher volume with less weight would lead to higher performance compared to the max weight set.

FFS we could go on all night in this epic circle of stupidity that we are spinning in:lol:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> This thread has cheered me up how many people on this earth spend their Saturday evenings discussing the difference between what a working set is LMAO:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


im a bber damn it lol i have no life out side the gym and this site lol


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

Lois_Lane said:


> It took me now to understand what we were even talking about, i was making it far more complicated in my head than it actually was:laugh:
> 
> Lift heavy+food+rest=growth i thought even us dumb meat heads could grasp this:lol:
> 
> Perform 1000 sets with 10lb and tell me your body did not work, lol it probably will not grow but work it will!


You said it right there Con....The light weights sets dont make you grow! It's all about the set with the most weight on the bar!


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> im a bber damn it lol i have no life out side the gym and this site lol


I would do some thing else if i could manage the energy to stand up trust me on that


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

GunnaGetBig said:


> You said it right there Con....*The light weights sets dont make you grow*! *It's all about the set with the most weight on the bar*!


Wrong


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

GunnaGetBig said:


> You said it right there Con....The light weights sets dont make you grow! It's all about the set with the most weight on the bar!


There are two types of growth though are their not?

Glycogen storage would be higher with the higher volume.

Personally now in my final few weeks i have upped my volume by many times and my physique has become larger and fuller looking. Perhaps this approach would not work year round but i am certainly happy with my "pumping" results at the moment.

Tendons and ligaments get stronger through lighter pumping style work outs. To only throw around heavy weights year round will soon leave you a cripple of a man.

The 100% truth and i mean no insult to any one especially you Brian as you have more experience than any of us but science can still not pin point exactly how growth occurs so all this talk although perhaps close to the truth is not 100% fact.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> For what purpose though? For the endurance athlete the higher volume with less weight would lead to higher performance compared to the max weight set.
> 
> FFS we could go on all night in this epic circle of stupidity that we are spinning in:lol:


lol yes but we are bbers lol so we are on about hypertrophi lol i know my spelling is wonk.

do the light set easy to flush blood in to the muscle get it warm lube up the joints and all that then do the heavy set hard to cause the muscle maximal stress?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

I wish I wasn't so tired because this is quite entertaining :lol: (and informative)


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> There are two types of growth though are their not?
> 
> Glycogen storage would be higher with the higher volume.
> 
> ...


tru its what works for me and what works for you end of


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Does anyone know what a "working rep" is? Try it out. Just click the little guy under my avy. Works great for adding size


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

ZEUS said:


> That's cool mate. You tell yourself what a working set is.... and I will tell myself what a working set is:thumbup1:
> 
> I still love you(non gay love)...... you litte cnut:tongue:


in a non gay way? what the fuk was last night about then?


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> lol yes but we are bbers lol so we are on about hypertrophi lol i know my spelling is wonk.
> 
> do the light set easy to flush blood in to the muscle get it warm lube up the joints and all that then do the heavy set hard to cause the muscle maximal stress?


Ok i shall start with my bro-science now because i only ever managed a C- in physiology so i am far from an expert BUT heavy weight for one set causes my muscles to become dense appearing but not round like they should for bb contest purposes. When i switch to the pumping style work outs with higher volume i become rounder and fuller looking.

You must always remember i was a powerlifter for many years so i still generally train like one it has made some muscles thick and big like my back. But to improve my legs i needed to go with very high volume and lighter sets.

If you are growing larger there is no problem and if you are not well then it is time to address thing.

There is a big difference between over training where you go and hit your biceps for 100 sets 3 times per week and high volume where you hit your body with 20-30 sets once per week.

The body adjusts very well to all sorts of changes as long as you are smart with it. Look at Arnie he used massive volume then look at Yates he did the opposite do you think they would have had the same results by trading training methods?

ANY WAY to throw a spanner in the works how the fvck do you even know if you are training hard to start with? Perhaps what you call a working set is what i would call a warm up because i am simply so much more intense than you?!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Ok i shall start with my bro-science now because i only ever managed a C- in physiology so i am far from an expert BUT heavy weight for one set causes my muscles to become dense appearing but not round like they should for bb contest purposes. When i switch to the pumping style work outs with higher volume i become rounder and fuller looking.
> 
> You must always remember i was a powerlifter for many years so i still generally train like one it has made some muscles thick and big like my back. But to improve my legs i needed to go with very high volume and lighter sets.
> 
> ...


i get angry and lift till i fail so as intense as poss lol


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> i get angry and lift till i fail so as intense as poss lol


Would this not....

1) Take your focus off the muscle

2) Increase cortisol levels thus reducing muscle gains


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Would this not....
> 
> 1) Take your focus off the muscle
> 
> 2) Increase cortisol levels thus reducing muscle gains


no lol

its a controlled anger like in my squat vids


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

big_jim_87 said:


> in a non gay way? what the fuk was last night about then?


That doesn't count because you slipped roofies in my drink


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Lois_Lane said:


> Ok i shall start with my bro-science now because i only ever managed a C- in physiology so i am far from an expert BUT heavy weight for one set causes my muscles to become dense appearing but not round like they should for bb contest purposes. When i switch to the pumping style work outs with higher volume i become rounder and fuller looking.
> 
> You must always remember i was a powerlifter for many years so i still generally train like one it has made some muscles thick and big like my back. But to improve my legs i needed to go with very high volume and lighter sets.
> 
> ...


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

Lois_Lane said:


> But that's not even how i normally train my friend.
> 
> Normally i take a more HIT approach and i only record my heaviest working set. BUT this is not the only way to do it. You have to stop looking for the ONE perfect way to do some thing. Your body will dictate how you need to do things and trust me building a body has nothing to do with following some gimmic program like DC. Even though i love some of the principles you have to adjust to your self.
> 
> ...


Good post


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

shauno said:


> i read recently you said the that high rep pumping style workouts over a prolonged period strip tissue you off.
> 
> im guessing this pumping stuff is temporary for the contest or will it carry on after?


I disagree about stripping muscle off you, perhaps if you are natural and over doing it yes. The main problem with pumping work outs is most people never try and get stronger so the muscles never get a lot bigger. But pumping while getting stronger is basically what bb is all about....

For me its temporary i will be back to strength training after my contest.

Strength is a nice way to keep making progress for me when off gear as it is disheartening to lose size and just keep pumping smaller muscles.


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

GunnaGetBig said:


> You said it right there Con....The light weights sets dont make you grow! It's all about the set with the most weight on the bar!


but zeus is still training to failure with the 125kg set in the 8-12 rep range


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

daniel.m said:


> but zeus is still training to failure with the 125kg set in the 8-12 rep range


So what? Zeus may not be a strength freak. Heavy is relative to our bodies. It certainly is working for him have you seen the size he is carrying?


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

thats what i'm agreeing with


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

daniel.m said:


> thats what i'm agreeing with


   Gotcha:thumbup1:

Funny thread this has been


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

too many people think they have to subscribe to one method of training for their entire life based upon what one individual has said or wrote, what about learning how to best train for yourself, and know when you need to change things up.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Agree with Con that all sets do something... although not all sets do the same thing. The lighter higher rep sets tend to stimulate exisiting muscle cells to increase in size, while heavier lower reps sets build new fibers better... in other words training heavy builds the structure of muscle and higher reps fill that structure out. That's how I look at it.

To me this makes both types of set important to include, but there are three approaches to doing both -

1) train both ways in the same session (pyramiding would be effective for this),

2) alternate heavy and light between sessions,

3) train one way for a number of weeks then change over.

Which way to choose I guess depends on your goals at the time and what you feel you respond best to.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

what i have found worked best for me so far was warming up to my heaviest set on a movement say incline press anf perfoming this set to failure between 5-9 reps. then next set drop the weight by 10% and go to failure then do the same for a following set. 3 working sets and the bodypart is done.

this worked well and i will be using an amended version next time i bulk.


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Lois_Lane said:


> I disagree about stripping muscle off you, perhaps if you are natural and over doing it yes. The main problem with pumping work outs is most people never try and get stronger so the muscles never get a lot bigger. But pumping while getting stronger is basically what bb is all about....
> 
> For me its temporary i will be back to strength training after my contest.
> 
> Strength is a nice way to keep making progress for me when off gear as it is disheartening to lose size and just keep pumping smaller muscles.


interesting mate, i swear i read a post of yours recently saying that you felt that the high rep pumping stuff was making you lose size if anything and the strength stuff kept your size better... i can try and find it if you dont belive me lol :thumb:

how do you think it is best to combine pumping and strength type training? drop sets or a couple of high rep sets after the the heavier stuff?

You must be a freak if you gain strength off gear man, most people have to fight to keep there strength level where its at.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

i intend to do HIT methods for bulking then when i deload switch to slightly higher volume for a couple of weeks then hit the HIT heavy again


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

i think jim wendler has it spot on with his 5/3/1 system. i have his ebook and he basically advocates doing say mill presses working upto your 5-3 or 1 rep max depending on what your on that week..... then doing a couple of high rep sets of the same exercise as assistance work.


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## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

I think i have opened a can of worms ay jim, zeus, con lol.

thanks for your posts lots of info in there, i suppose everebody is different and should do what works for them.

for example simular to hilly said my father in law walks into the gym to train chest, he loads a bar up with 120kg and does 10reps then takes off 40kg does 15 reps takes another 40kg off then reps out usually about 25/30 reps, then does some work on the pec deck and hes done, when i first saw him do this i thought he was mad, no walm up and straight in to 140kg bench press but he said that works for him and if he worked the other way round light to heavy he wouldnt be able to lift the 140kg


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

Jesus mate:lol:i would never bench 140k cold ffs,i know we are all different but thats dangerous as IMO,not only that but proper use of warmups can help you lift much more than you could if lifting a weight cold,IMO if he can do 140k without warming up at all,then he will be able to lift at least 160k with a good warmup routine,just my opinion of course:thumbup1:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

i keep seeing this all sets do something, yes they do my training style is the same ish as Yates this is what im trying to get at, its 1 all out set till fail the warm ups should be relatively easy but get harder and weight must go up all the way up to one max out put set not 2 max out put sets as my max out put set is pushed so hard that it leaves me so fatigued i couldn't do another set unless it was lighter then the one previous.

this is just my style so all imo what works best for me........


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## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

Dsahna said:


> Jesus mate:lol:i would never bench 140k cold ffs,i know we are all different but thats dangerous as IMO,not only that but proper use of warmups can help you lift much more than you could if lifting a weight cold,IMO if he can do 140k without warming up at all,then he will be able to lift at least 160k with a good warmup routine,just my opinion of course:thumbup1:


i know thats what i thought but he been training a long time and knows what works for him

fook that tho i couldnt do that


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## strange_days (Aug 6, 2009)

Good reading


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## Soybean70 (Apr 6, 2010)

pyramid done correctly is outstanding. muscle building: 30%x15, 40%x12, 50%x10, 60%x8, 70%xfailure. strength building: 30%x15, 50%x10, 60%x8, 70%x6, 80%x4, 90%xfailure

savickas and pudzianowski pyramid for strength. i think they know what they're doing.


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