# Best way to time carbs for fat loss?



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Best way to time carbs for fat loss?

So what are your preferred way/s of timing you carbs for more effective fat loss and prevention of muscle wasting.

First questions (which is bothering me the most)

Meal 1, carb or no carb??

So after I've done semi-fasted cardio with aminos am I best eating Just protein an fat (say 50p/15f) to avoid insulin release an keep the fat burning going? (Sure pscarb does this) or some people say EAT carbs so you "kick start" your metabolism, which would you say was better?

Second question.

Carbs around workout?

Sounds simple and probably don't make much difference either way but what's BEST from the following?...

Carbs pre/intra/post

Carbs intra/post/meal 2hr after

Carbs post/meal 2hr after

Am gonna shoot for 200 carbs but not sure how an when to space them out, I've tried all the above but found it hard to tell which was better


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Afternoon bump


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## Gaz111 (Jan 3, 2015)

Would it really matter when you ate what as long as you are in a calorie defecit?

That's a genuine question, not a dig.

I used to worry a lot about macros and timing carbs and didn't worry enough about being in a calorie defecit. Now I just count calories and make sure I'm in a deficit and fat is melting away.


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## uhitmeudie (Sep 11, 2014)

Personally my carbs are around when I wake up and before my workout. I tend to workout first thing in the morning so it works fine for me. However you could try splitting it evenly throughout the day. For the most part the calorie deficit only matters and if you perform better with pre workout carbs then just hold out until you are near your workout time to take them.


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

TommyBananas said:


> It doesn't matter when you have your carbs as long as your calorie intake puts you in a deficit.
> 
> /thread


you don't honstly believe that do you? Ok cal def will make you drop weight, but I want to drop fat only, you talk some shit



Gaz111 said:


> Would it really matter when you ate what as long as you are in a calorie defecit?
> 
> That's a genuine question, not a dig.
> 
> I used to worry a lot about macros and timing carbs and didn't worry enough about being in a calorie defecit. Now I just count calories and make sure I'm in a deficit and fat is melting away.


yes is matters, unless you like burning through muscle


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## vildgut (Dec 12, 2013)

Stop the IFFYM bull shit when you are getting low in BF some people have a lot harder getting abs than others "saying that i the goal"

Read up on carb backloading maybe or try the no carbs after 6 approach i make sure most of my carbs are around traning where i need them


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

TommyBananas said:


> Lol, I'm sorry that you're the clueless one asking for help on something that is a science. YOU talk shit and don't even understand basic nutrition.


wasn't asking for help really just wanted people's experiences with different carb timings

Basic nutrition says cal def = weightloss, not fatloss an muscle gain


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

TommyBananas said:


> Lol. facepalm.


don't why we bother arguing never going to agree


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

TommyBananas said:


> Instead of arguing wiith me, perhaps look up Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and realise that the total calorie and macronutrient intake by the end of the day is the determine factor of fat loss.
> 
> Timing your carbs for fat loss is irrelevant. You could eat all your carbs in the morning, you could eat them all before bed, it wouldn't make any difference. You cannot gain weight, or maintain weight if you are in a calorie deficit.
> 
> ...


I know all of there theories, but if any of them were true then at least one bodybuilder would follow them, but they don't, must be a reason

I think for average joe looking to lose weight they fine but not for bodybuilding


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Some people like to over complicate things tho


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Entered the thread, saw timed carbs, left thread


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

TommyBananas said:


> They coach people with pro cards with these methods. Also use them, themselves such as Layne who has won bodybuilding and powerlifting shows. Alberto Nunez, etc.
> 
> I'm not sure if you understand much about nutrition instead you're reciting stuff from musclemag 1998 or something. I don't want to be a dick for no reason; but you are refusing to learn or even try something and giving something that is of zero importance so much attention.


Haha muscle mag 88 made me laugh

yeah maybe coz there tried and tested and work

im all for trying to ways of doing things, I ran every protcol out there for other things like slin, aas, training and even food, I used to do every meal the same but recently been trying the carb timing, an in think it works an is a lot more enjoyable as I can have a large meal post work out ie my tea with my family

maybe I'll try one of there ways sooner or later but am on holiday in 7 weeks an don't want to change things too much



Big ape said:


> Entered the thread, saw timed carbs, left thread


but it was in the title....


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

I was doing carbs equally though out the day post show..

changed back to carbs from around 2 hours pre workout and up to 2 hours post workout.

Don't care if its right, I feel better and to me thats important


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Timed carbs works. I go pre and post don't bother with intra I'd rather have more after my workout


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

The Forum idiot is at it again... Somebody who looks 10x better than him yet thinks he knows it all... Just leave him to it @JayDP


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## vildgut (Dec 12, 2013)

IFFYM might suit the majority but not all people are a like, where is the factor of fintuning insulin sensivity with IFFYM approach? Why does alot of people report very well on carb cycling?

IFFYM works for must but only to a centain extent and its not to optimal way imo. Try get all your carbs from candy in a month and report back how good that is since it fit your macros..


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

im just confused as to how your body knows what time it is?


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

Big ape said:


> im just confused as to how your body knows what time it is?


It doesn't... but if i bang in a load of carbs pre workout i get all veiny and pumped and i like this


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## vildgut (Dec 12, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> No-one is talking about IIFYM.
> 
> I refuse to respond to more idiots today.
> 
> Have fun!


Sorry actually - im biased looking at the other threads - my bad


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

I have found that I lose fat better on lower carbs. I only eat them around my workout, between 1.5 to 1 hour before and then a couple of hours after. No scientific reason I just find it helps my workout, and then helps me feel better after.


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

jayDP said:


> Best way to time carbs for fat loss?
> 
> So what are your preferred way/s of timing you carbs for more effective fat loss and prevention of muscle wasting.
> 
> ...


i dont personally have carbs with meal one on any day its always fats protein and i do fasted cardio even off prep to stay lean and keep active.

secondly.. i have carbs with meal 2..not 3 and then 4 pre workout.. i always using cyclic dextrin and peptopro intra workout and have fast acting carbs immediatly post and this seems to work well for me!


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

> It doesn't matter when you have your carbs as long as your calorie intake puts you in a deficit.
> 
> /thread


Personally I think that's wrong plenty of studies to back it up but at work so can't be poop'd to dig them out.


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

> There is no reputable peer reviewed data to suggest carb timing makes a difference to fat loss, I'm afraid.


Wrong again and the statement about fasted cardio not making a difference? Nearly choked on my chicken.


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

> Ok, Mr Broscience. Enlighten me; seeing as all the recent data shows it makes no difference.


I don't need to I know am right and as already said am at work so not gonna go digging up articles online. 
Bioscience? Point out the part I spouted bioscience?


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

This forum is being ruined by certain people who think they know everything and its a real shame. People are asking for opinions / advice and its fine to give the opinion but to start saying other people are wrong when they clearly look 10x better than them i think you need to give your head a wobble @TommyBananas

@JayDP gives out good advice as is knowledgeable so no need for it... he also looks great and is asking for how people have found certain things, which Tommy you also wont do so how would you know whether they work or not


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

I believe carbs first meal isn't good.

When I diet I do 35g carbs but if I did a couple hundred I'd do them all around my workout.


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## Info Junkie (Nov 22, 2013)

At the start I thought the same about tommy an his approach but I did what he said and a) read up on it B ) watched videos of guys I respect in bodybuilding like Dorian Yates, jay cutler & mike menster saying they ate some junk urging olmpia prep as try were in a deficit, hearing those guys say that wrapped it up for me , I am now using this approach myself cutting with 200g protein , 74 gram fat and 150gram carbs ,

i have been eating about 10-15% of carb intake at night before bed like biscuits or cereal and still losing fat just fine


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

Info Junkie said:


> At the start I thought the same about tommy an his approach but I did what he said and a) read up on it B ) watched videos of guys I respect in bodybuilding like Dorian Yates, jay cutler & mike menster saying they ate some junk urging olmpia prep as try were in a deficit, hearing those guys say that wrapped it up for me , I am now using this approach myself cutting with 200g protein , 74 gram fat and 150gram carbs ,
> 
> i have been eating about 10-15% of carb intake at night before bed like biscuits or cereal and still losing fat just fine


That's great, it works for you.

Unfortunately the same thing doesn't work for everyone, if it did then surely there would be one definitive diet and everyone would follow it?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

My view is for the vast majority of people, any difference carb timing makes to fat loss (also general conditioning including other factors) doesn't matter as it wont be noticed. However, for those at the top of their game with a decent amount of muscle mass and low bodyfat levels there are surely advantages to be drawn if they take the time to figure out what works for them.


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## Omen669 (Jun 11, 2015)

I have carbs in the morning and small amount before working out. Getting leaner by the day.

So many ways that people diet, what works for them etc. There is some basic practices to follow, but in general, it's down to the person, how they train and what works for them.

I think it's very childish how this thread has gone..Over something so simple. Getting new idea's to tweek your own dieting, is what the forum is all about.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/20


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

> Basic nutrition says cal def = weightloss, not fatloss an muscle gain


Granted, which is why we lift (and optionally take AAS) to retain muscle - those are the real difference makers in where the weight loss comes from.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Instead of arguing wiith me, perhaps look up Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and realise that the total calorie and macronutrient intake by the end of the day is the determine factor of fat loss.


Are you certain that the three people you mentioned would say that carb timing can have no impact at all? I'm not, but I'm open to being shown evidence to the contrary.

Layne may very well have changed his views but he definitely used to believe in carb timing being signficant (see e.g. here).

Carbs pre-workout makes sense to me from a performance POV FWIW.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I said fat loss. Not performance. Not once have I said anything but fat loss.
> 
> And that article by Layne says nothing about carbs blunting fat loss. And I'm sure he has even openly spoken more about this on his biolayne channel.


But if you manage to workout better this could affect fat loss. Firstly, if you are able to complete a larger training volume that is more calories burned. Secondly, a more effective workout could increase muscle retention/growth which could also impact on fat loss. For me muscle retention is a major factor when cutting and so I will time some carbs pre-workout to try and maintain exercise performance.

FWIW on training days I have carbs at breakfast, but then none until pre-workout in the evening, with the bulk of my carbs in the post-workout period. Whether this makes any actual difference beyond the performance issue I mentioned I have absolutely no idea. It certainly may not.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I'm sorry but that is simply clutching at straws


Not at all. Exercise performance is VERY important as far as I'm concerned. And keto is very different to low carb as you well know.

Off to train now so I'll leave this here for now.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Eat all of your carbs before bed and see what happens.


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

After morning cardio is have protein in water and scrambled eggs.

Before a workout will use around 50g carbs in a meal.

After a workout will be carbs maybe up to 100-150 ( largest carb filled Meal for the day)

then next few meals left maybe some fish / chicken with leafy vegs and nuts.

I find so far it's working fine , scales the same yet looking tighter.

Good luck.

Ignore the if your in a calorie deficit crew unless your super huge and fat and muscle preservation isn't your priority


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Having a few carbs less/more isn't going to change calories burnt in turn making fat loss significantly different, no matter what you're concerned with.
> 
> Alan has said the words himself that carb timing is personal preference - while you're free to disagree, aren't you a 'fan' of Alan's and so on?


Far and away the biggest factor affecting fat loss is the size of the calorie deficit. As soon as you go beyond that it pretty much all starts getting into debatable territory as far as I'm concerned. I know you like to present everything as very black and white, but I believe the likes of Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and Lyle McDonald would all present a rather more nuanced view.

I do think there is a performance consideration as far as timing carbs around workouts goes, which for me is primarily important from a muscle retention POV (more so for me than many here as I'm natty). The points I raised above about the impact of workout performance of fat loss are genuine but I do agree they are pretty small. I mentioned them as you were saying there could be no effect whatsoever.

As far as carb timing goes beyond that I don't know whether there may be a small potential benefit to different ways of structuring carb intake throughout the day. I say I don't know because I don't believe there is strong enough scientific evidence to completely rule this out, carb timing does have the potential to affect hormones such as insulin, and plenty of people I respect on here and elsewhere would suggest it may give some benefit. I therefore try to keep an open mind on the subject.

By the way I am familiar with the paper by Alan Aragon and Brad Schoenfeld that you posted the link to, but as you acknowledged it isn't really relevant to the current discussion. And yes, I do have a lot of respect to the likes of Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and Lyle McDonald, who BTW do not agree on everything. If you can post a link to a decent summary from any of them relevant to this subject I'll read it. As I would any studies you know of relating to carb timing and fat loss amongst fairly lean weight traning people (as opposed to obese populations).


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Eat all of your carbs before bed and see what happens.


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/carbs-at-night-fat-loss-killer-or-imaginary-boogeyman.html

"However, I think what can be said with relative certainly is the notion that consuming carbohydrates at night will lead to more fat gain, or impair fat loss compared to consuming them at other times of the day, is false. Write it down: "Don't eat carbs at night, bro" has officially been busted as broscience!"

Layne Norton - with loads of references at the bottom, cu fish.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I've read that before and agree that carbs before bed are fine, but FWIW the last reference mentioned suggests a beneficial effect for having all of the day's carbs in a single meal rather than spread throughout the day...

This is the study (which I have not read yet):

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2011.48/pdf

Edit: Haven't got to grips with quotes in this new forum yet - not sure what happened above! I was trying to quote the reference to Layne's BB.com article about late night carbs.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I've read that before and agree that carbs before bed are fine, but FWIW the last reference mentioned suggests a beneficial effect for having all of the day's carbs in a single meal rather than spread throughout the day...
> 
> This is the study (which I have not read yet):
> 
> ...


Will check tomorrow head is banging, lol.


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

jayDP said:


> Best way to time carbs for fat loss?
> 
> So what are your preferred way/s of timing you carbs for more effective fat loss and prevention of muscle wasting.
> 
> ...


Your questions are quite big to be fair - there is a lot of factors to consider. Personally to me.

I am in a -400 defecit on a diet of 40 fat - 40 pro - 20 carb.

I do fasted cardio every morning and train every evening so my meals work like so.

6.30AM - Fasted Cardio

8.30AM - Meal 1 - Protein + Carbs

10.30am - Meal 2 - Protein + Fat

1.00pm - Meal 3 - Protein + Fat

3.30pm - Meal 4 - Protein + Fat

5.30pm - Weight Training

7.00pm - PWO - Protein

8.00pm - Meal 5 - Protein - Fat - Carbs

10.30pm - Meal 6 - Protein

This is working okay for me...I did previously have 3 carb meals a day on meals: 1, 3 and 6 which next week i will probably go back to as having no carbs for lunch is shit!

I think a massive factor in 'carb timing' is based on the person...I mean i am 18% BF @ 16 stone 4 lbs....So to me carb timing probably isnt my biggest concern, it's more CALS in VS CALS out....Where as someone like PSCARB like you said is very low BF% - so maintaining this or reducing this becomes more specific and requires smarter dieting.

In conclusion my view is - for any every day gym lover / dieter looking to get a better looking physique and get to a 10%-12% BF - Timing isn't really going to boost or reduce your results.

Good Luck!


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Big ape said:


> im just confused as to how your body knows what time it is?


LOL! I'm Dead....


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