# Natural Board



## PowerHouse

Hi

I'm new to the forums and have just started training again. I want to train without roids and have noticed there is quite a focus on here for them. Couldn't we have a Natural bodybuilding sub-forum? 

Cheers


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## Magic Torch

Whats the difference between natural training and assisted training tho?


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## megatron

Magic Torch said:


> Whats the difference between natural training and assisted training tho?


Gains


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## jw007

Great idea, then all the nobbers who post in aas section with no experience or knowledge of subject can stick to their own section rather than post their tripe and rubbish in the users threads


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## PowerHouse

jw007 said:


> Great idea, then all the nobbers who post in aas section with no experience or knowledge of subject can stick to their own section rather than post their tripe and rubbish in the users threads


This was more or less my point. I don't use roids but doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't- quite simply its your choice. I have good knowledge of training, form and nutrition but know naff all about aas. I will stick to what I know and a nat sub-forum will be good to share and learn more as well finding a home for those who are opposed to aas


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## Magic Torch

Again I ask the question, how does natural training differ from assisted training?


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## Guest

im not to sure about this one, im not on gear, but i feel it may divide the forum too much

just stick to the form and technique threads if you need help etc and should all be fine

i mean the AAS forum is for those specifically whilst the rest is for all

plus in my eyes, the way it is now if we all use the same forum for technique, form and even diet it means you get more feedback from both clean and people on gear, also if we divide clean and gear, the clean people will loose out on the knowledge that AAS users due to their longer training and personal experiences during training

is there a better word for people not on gear rather than 'clean', sounds degrading to those who arent?


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## jw007

Magic Torch said:


> Again I ask the question, how does natural training differ from assisted training?


Because using aas you can get away with a lot more, not train as hard, not eat as well, not use as many nat supps and still make gains, so basically you can grow without much knowledge of how or what you are doing wrong.

So you could be doing something incorrectly but making gains so you assume everything is spot on....

As a natural trainer, especially those near natural potential, its harder to make gains unless everything is spot on, so they have to be a bit more careful and scientific about things...

In an ideal world all those that workout would all train perfectly, have the perfect diet and supps knowledge.....

But this is not an ideal world...

I know for a fact because i use aas etc, i dont eat no where near as well as i should, but then again i dont have to as i let the aas do the work...

I would say i have a lot of respect for a high level natural trainer as they have to live like a monk to make progress, where as i would just have another shot then go out on the p1ss PMSL


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## YetiMan1436114545

But then, no offence to any one (Nathan) you would be posting in two forums?

Natty Getting Started etc

AAS Getting started etc

Because you may think ok no one in Natty has replied lets go on the AAS. It would double the amount of section on the forum as for every thing you would have a AAS and a Natty section. I think its a bad idea.


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## Lorian

I've been asked this a couple of times in the last 2 weeks.

In my mind it doesn't make sense to split the Training forums into Natural/AAS .. if we do that then surely we should split the Supplementation forums as well?

It wouldn't be immediately obvious *which* section a new thread should go in - what if a guy did a cycle a year ago.. but is now 'clean' .. say he has an Advanced Training question - where should it go?

I believe that each 'group' of forums should stand alone as their own indpendent area.

We would thereofore have:

The Training Forums

The Supplementation Forums

The Diet & Nutrition Forums

The Steroid Forums

This would mean re-jigging the front page slightly so that the Supplementation forum is no longer lumped in with the Steroid & Testosterone Information forum.

L


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## wogihao

I dont know forums where they had a natural section ended up divideing the boards along the user/non-user lines. Nobody would listen to the assited guys anymore because there "on the sauce" and therefore there years of drug free training are rendered void....

your get guys 11stone **** sokeing wet giving advice to others and when someone calls them out on it your get "yea but then i dont take steriods so ofcourse i wont be a muscle man..."

I know there has been a rash of retarded beginer gear users recently but please dont let the natural trainers get a foothold its simply unberable listening to these bitter failures complaining about everything thats wrong with assisted training.


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## Magic Torch

jw007 said:


> Because using aas you can get away with a lot more, not train as hard, not eat as well, not use as many nat supps and still make gains, so basically you can grow without much knowledge of how or what you are doing wrong.
> 
> So you could be doing something incorrectly but making gains so you assume everything is spot on....
> 
> As a natural trainer, especially those near natural potential, its harder to make gains unless everything is spot on, so they have to be a bit more careful and scientific about things...
> 
> In an ideal world all those that workout would all train perfectly, have the perfect diet and supps knowledge.....
> 
> But this is not an ideal world...
> 
> I know for a fact because i use aas etc, i dont eat no where near as well as i should, but then again i dont have to as i let the aas do the work...
> 
> I would say i have a lot of respect for a high level natural trainer as they have to live like a monk to make progress, where as i would just have another shot then go out on the p1ss PMSL


Fcukin junkie x


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## jw007

Magic Torch said:


> Fcukin junkie x


how rude









im only a junkie on weekends and wednesdays


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## Tinytom

I dont think its warranted TBH

If you want a dedicated Natural board then have a look at PHD's forum as they are all natural over there.

Or on uk-muscle.com there is a natural forum but TBH the same threads pop up in both those forums that would appear here. Just over there they tend to get more technical but then you have a LOT of older experienced guys training.

However I feel that Training theory does really get influenced by AAS in the purist sense as AAS just allow you to go harder and heavier.

As JW pointed out AAS does allow you to slack off a little bit but then dont think that every natural guy trains their ass off because they dont. All top level athletes trian hard and are meticulous about diet and training and supplementation so whether assisted or natural you can learn from both. Just recognise that when a Pro BBer is talking about his shcedule they normally mean while 'on' so you would need to adjust your schedule accordingly.


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## ParaManiac

jw007 said:


> Because using aas you can get away with a lot more, not train as hard, not eat as well, not use as many nat supps and still make gains, so basically you can grow without much knowledge of how or what you are doing wrong.
> 
> So you could be doing something incorrectly but making gains so you assume everything is spot on....
> 
> As a natural trainer, especially those near natural potential, its harder to make gains unless everything is spot on, so they have to be a bit more careful and scientific about things...
> 
> In an ideal world all those that workout would all train perfectly, have the perfect diet and supps knowledge.....
> 
> But this is not an ideal world...
> 
> I know for a fact because i use aas etc, i dont eat no where near as well as i should, but then again i dont have to as i let the aas do the work...
> 
> I would say i have a lot of respect for a high level natural trainer as they have to live like a monk to make progress, where as i would just have another shot then go out on the p1ss PMSL


Great post.

i am in favour of a natural section for the very reasons outlined above.


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## Golden Man

As a natural whatever you call that there is no need to divide or create another section for naturals.Knowledge is knowledge you can take ass etc and look poo you can be a natty and look poo. IT ACTUALLY GETS ON MY NERVOUS WHEN PEOPLE THING SUBSTANCES GUARANTEE SUCCESS.John harris.com natty forum mainly.


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## Robsta

I fail to see what can be posted in a natty sub section that would look out of place anwhere else on the board....

No need for it imo...


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## Ollie B

I think its a waste of time.


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## Guest

Draws unneeded attention, there is no such thing as a natural bodybuilder only ones who choose to not use certain substances:beer1:


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## Golden Man

Well said con


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## Magic Torch

I'm natural.....2months a year


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## cellaratt

I think it's unneccessary. It will divide the forum and make us weaker as a whole. I've never used gear or have any plans to do so. Thats my personal choice...I respect all lifters, natural. on gear, powerlifter and Bodybuilders. While each has there differances there are just as many and more of the same's going on. I float around on the ass areas of the forum as a curiosty tool...To better knowledge myself of the acctual differances between us. I've been involve in training for sometime know but only recently started to understand what goes on with ass users. From the looks of it this site has more users than natural and as a natural I see no need to change things...in short...if it ain't broke, don't fix it...


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## fozyspilgrims

Not a good idea in my opinion.


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## The_Kernal

As a natty I think its pointless too. I know Jack all bout Aas however i enjoy educating myself from the posts on here and am forever learning. I have had some good natty advice on this site from Wogi, Robsta ect. These peeps are seasoned and know more than most so in my eyes if your a body builder, your a body builder!

People think because you use aas your better than than the people not using them but its your dicipline and determination that makes you win. WERE ALL IN IT FOR THE SAME REASONS.

ANYONE FANCY A GROUP HUG?? :blowme:


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## Lost Soul

There is a general training section for naturals to talk about training

There is a general diet section for naturals to talk about diet

There is a general supplements section for naturals to talk about supps

There is a general comps section for naturals to talk about natural comps

There is the general section for natural to talk about everyday things

That leaves one thing a section for naturals to pass judgement, justify their shortcomings and bicker about juicers

Good idea? not for me my friends


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## The_Kernal

Lost Soul said:


> There is a general training section for naturals to talk about training
> 
> There is a general diet section for naturals to talk about diet
> 
> There is a general supplements section for naturals to talk about supps
> 
> There is a general comps section for naturals to talk about natural comps
> 
> There is the general section for natural to talk about everyday things
> 
> That leaves one thing a section for naturals to pass judgement, justify their shortcomings and bicker about juicers
> 
> Good idea? not for me my friends


STRAIGHT TO THE POINT BRO. LS, YOUR THE SIMON COWELL OF UK-m


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## Lost Soul

kelly.km said:


> STRAIGHT TO THE POINT BRO. LS, YOUR THE SIMON COWELL OF UK-m


Minus the gyno and sh1te trousers i must add


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## Littleluke

No need for a natural board imo.


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## Jock

No real need for it IMO, it would polarise board members even more and personally I don't think there enough differences between natural and 'assisted' training methods, diet etc that call for seperate forums.


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## gmacman

jw007

Whether ur natural or juiced, to reach your targets it will STILL require hardwork, dieting and training. Sure, being on juice defo brings the gains on quicker however, to mantain that physic after cycles requires alot of hard work!


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## the_muss

As a natural trainer I don't think that there is a need to split up the training as the same principles still apply. Maybe to optimise for natural bodybuilding some supps, diet and volume of training may be slightly different but IMO still very similar.

What i feel this board is lacking is many knowledgeable natural competitors. It would be brilliant to have the natural equivalent of Pscarb or TinyTom - with their contest prep guides and expertise.

I personally am wanting to compete naturally and it's bloody hard to find out some information/tips on the final stages of the diet and contest preparation. For example what would be the pre-contest diet? How do you loose all of the water/fat without assistance? How do you not loose too much muscle during this diet without assistance? Are there drugs that are generally accepted in a natural competition? Etc...

I know there will be loads of similarities with normal competitions and I could just use a "geared" person's diet and contest prep and just not take the gear but I'm sure most people would agree that this is perhaps not the optimum way. And its all well and good for some who hasn't done a natural competition saying it's the same for assisted bbers as it is natural but how do they know?


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## chronic-2001

Great idea, by the way the_muss i must say you look excellent for a natural bodybuilder, well done!


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## the_muss

chronic-2001 said:


> Great idea, by the way the_muss i must say you look excellent for a natural bodybuilder, well done!


 :thumb: Thank you. :blush:

Still a long way to go though.


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## crazycal1

i wouldnt have guessed you were natty mate...seriously looking big and with shape too!


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## the_muss

crazycal1 said:


> i wouldnt have guessed you were natty mate...seriously looking big and with shape too!


Oh thank you. I still am a long way from where I need to be. My plan is to spend until the end of this year focussing on eating enough and really working on my weak areas then I'll diet down in the hope to be ready for a show in April.

Looking at the standard of competitors on the BNBF and NPA websites I know I will not place but I would like to go just for the experience and to give my training a purpose.


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## Britbb

Im against a natural section tbh.

The reason for this is because there are natural bodybuilders on here (fivos, andrew merryfield etc) who destroy 99% of the steroid assisted guys on the board!

Ask fivos or mezza how they train...THEY TRAIN THE SAME AS ANY GREAT 'REGULAR' BODYBUILDER.

I think by having a forum labelled into natural and non natural its a bit derrogatory for the naturals...because it suggests 'natural forum = not as good'...when we all know from looking at fivos and mezza that the whole notion of natural = not as good is a load of bullsh1t.

Maybe a section for contest prep the natural way...afterall getting ready for a contest naturally and without steroid or performance enhancers assistance will be different, but not greatly so.

Infact, i think that people who make the old excuse 'oh but im natural', or 'but they take steroids' etc etc are their own worst enemies. Ive NEVER EVER seen or heard a good natural bodybuilder start shouting from the rooftops 'but im natural' etc etc and i'll tell you why that is:

Being 'natural' hasnt hindered them. Of course they wont be like jay cutler, but chances are that even if they used roids they wouldnt be like him anyway...just as 99.999999% of steroid using bodybuilders will never be like jay cutler either.

They are 'bodybuilders', its their choice to be natural or not, but theres no need for them to shout it from the rooftops because they get respect for how they look and their knowledge because they look damn good!

So basically (and i understand seeing as you are relatively new according to your own admission) there is no need for a 'natural only' section because natural training and assisted training is exactly the same, you still do the same workouts...Obviously if youre natural then you wont be 300 lbs and need to use 500g protein and 600g carbs per day because you scale it for your weight and size, but the principles are exactly the same!

Just because one is 'natural' doesnt mean that its an excuse to look crap, because the natural guys who put the work in will look far far far from the stereotypical 'natural' bodybuilders or mens health cover model physique.

What is funny is that i see people saying that its impossible to get 19 inch arms naturally...yet in first 3.5 years of training i trained natural and went upto 16 stone with decent ish abs, my arms were just shy of 19 inches. The best gains i ever had in my life were when i first started bodybuilding and trained naturally for 3.5 years. I train exactly the same now as i did back then, same workout layout etc...only difference is i eat more now and lift more weight (which came from lifting for a further 4-5 years and wouldve progressed naturally aswell, but at a slower rate).


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## Britbb

the_muss said:


> As a natural trainer I don't think that there is a need to split up the training as the same principles still apply. Maybe to optimise for natural bodybuilding some supps, diet and volume of training may be slightly different but IMO still very similar.
> 
> What i feel this board is lacking is many knowledgeable natural competitors. It would be brilliant to have the natural equivalent of Pscarb or TinyTom - with their contest prep guides and expertise.
> 
> I personally am wanting to compete naturally and it's bloody hard to find out some information/tips on the final stages of the diet and contest preparation. For example what would be the pre-contest diet? How do you loose all of the water/fat without assistance? How do you not loose too much muscle during this diet without assistance? Are there drugs that are generally accepted in a natural competition? Etc...
> 
> I know there will be loads of similarities with normal competitions and I could just use a "geared" person's diet and contest prep and just not take the gear but I'm sure most people would agree that this is perhaps not the optimum way. And its all well and good for some who hasn't done a natural competition saying it's the same for assisted bbers as it is natural but how do they know?


You have fivos who is natural. You also have mezza who comes on this board i think occasionally who is natural aswell.

Mezza is probably the same (in terms of like for like) or even more accomplished than paul or tom because he has won the natural british title and is a pro, competed over the world as a pro natural bodybuilder aswell.

If im not mistaken, both fivos and andy have competed in non teszted events and despite being natural, they have BEATEN the assisted guys!!!

Andy won the north west ukbff under 80kg class (i think) back in 06.


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## Tatyana

Tinytom said:


> I dont think its warranted TBH
> 
> If you want a dedicated Natural board then have a look at PHD's forum as they are all natural over there.
> 
> Or on uk-muscle.com there is a natural forum but TBH the same threads pop up in both those forums that would appear here. Just over there they tend to get more technical but then you have a LOT of older experienced guys training.
> 
> However I feel that *Training theory does really get influenced by AAS in the purist sense as AAS just allow you to go harder and heavier.*
> 
> *As JW pointed out AAS does allow you to slack off a little bit but then dont think that every natural guy trains their ass off because they dont.* All top level athletes trian hard and are meticulous about diet and training and supplementation so whether assisted or natural you can learn from both. Just recognise that when a Pro BBer is talking about his shcedule they normally mean while 'on' so you would need to adjust your schedule accordingly.


bingo, I think Tom nailed it.

You need less recovery time when on a cycle, natties can end up over-training.

I have heard more than one chap admit they never watched their diet a lot as they didn't have to as they were blast and cruising.

I can't expect to lift more weight every week, nor can I expect to have balls to the walls training sessions every single time, which I think is one of the things that you lads like about gear.


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## Tinytom

Britbb said:


> What is funny is that i see people saying that its impossible to get 19 inch arms naturally...yet in first 3.5 years of training i trained natural and went upto 16 stone with decent ish abs, my arms were just shy of 19 inches. *The best gains i ever had in my life were when i first started bodybuilding and trained naturally for 3.5 years*. I train exactly the same now as i did back then, same workout layout etc...only difference is i eat more now and lift more weight (which came from lifting for a further 4-5 years and wouldve progressed naturally aswell, but at a slower rate).


Ditto mate

I started at 9 stone and went up to just under 13 in 3/4 years clean

Im now 15 stone after 6 years of gear use.

And you are right both Mezza and Fivos are world class athletes and are extremely talented bbers who have accomplished more than I have ever done so I would welcome the chance to train with either of them.


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## dru0111

I don't really get it, from what I have read, people using AAS would (or should) have reached an impressive natural state before taking. Thus they would have a lot of experience of natural training and would be able to offer natural trainers lots of good advise. By dividing the forums both parties could potentially loose out on valuable info!


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## leveret

Its not like if you take steroids you suddenly become different and require massive alterations in diet and training. Natural trainers just need to be intelligent when reading advice and people's journals, realising they should not follow a assissted bodybuilder's regime 100%.


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## wogihao

Liam said:


> Its not like if you take steroids you suddenly become different and require massive alterations in diet and training. Natural trainers just need to be intelligent when reading advice and people's journals, realising they should not follow a assissted bodybuilder's regime 100%.


Im not sure if thats totaly true, ofcoruse it depends on your aproach but I know my diet wouldnt work if it wasnt for the gear. your protien requirements are totaly diffrent (especialy if your useing T3/T4) or slin.


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## leveret

Maybe your freaky diet wouldn't but id recon the majority of diets steroid users are on, if scaled down slightly, would work for a natural trainer.


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## Golden Man

As somebody who has and is natural (bnbf welsh novice 07 3rd and british qualifier and npa under 78kg southwest runner up).Id say "natural" wise its ALL ABOUT CONDITION..MEZZA 1 IN A MILLION but if you get it right who knows JONHARRIS.COM. Training wise there is no difference as I think mentioned early my best lifts 147.5 kg bench 232kg squat and 270kg deadlift. when training for a comp with about 6 weeks out Im doing 2*45 mins session of cardio training 6days a week but for 45-1hr intense but high reps different strokes for different folks BUT the key is diet=condition


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## the_muss

Britbb said:


> You have fivos who is natural. You also have mezza who comes on this board i think occasionally who is natural aswell.
> 
> Mezza is probably the same (in terms of like for like) or even more accomplished than paul or tom because he has won the natural british title and is a pro, competed over the world as a pro natural bodybuilder aswell.
> 
> If im not mistaken, both fivos and andy have competed in non teszted events and despite being natural, they have BEATEN the assisted guys!!!
> 
> Andy won the north west ukbff under 80kg class (i think) back in 06.


Thanks  , I'll have to read the threads that Mezza and Fivos have posted. As I said earlier I didn't want a separate area just more active experienced natural competitors to share their knowledge.


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## jodes

Mez is my best mate, who helped me with all my diet and training for my first show, i was natural and won overall, body fat at 4% .....saying that i wouldnt have stood a chance against the trained figure Nabba girls at Southport this year!!!


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## TaintedSoul

If we going to have a natural section can we have a tall section for us tall people 6 foot and above. 100kg's is big for some and nothing for another!!

Maybe also divide up the Gaining weight section between ecto, meso and endo's.

Come on, other than the steroids section it's all the same. It's great to have everyone together dicussing their problems, giving advice and not divided.

Beside if you only ever click "New Posts" all the sections are irrelevant!!!

P.S. ( Jodes - Where's your current pics?? )


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## jodes

Hahaha, they are on there way - 3 months late, oh and def agree with your post!


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## TaintedSoul

jodes said:


> Hahaha, they are on there way - 3 months late, oh and def agree with your post!


3 months... 6 months.... I dont forget! 

Get them up :thumbup1: !


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## Gumball

Best natural forum is the Jon Harris one!


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## Govinda's Mate

Leave it the way it is, if ya dont use then dont post, lots of space here for natural, bb'ers.


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## MXMAD

There no difference between the two so no need IMO

What's the point, just make it more confusing


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## carly

sounds like aload of bollox tbh, im natural but who cares if you are or not, you still gotta train and diet your ass off to get gains either way and you dont have to train any different so what you gonna have on a natural forum that you dont on an all for all PMSL


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## MaKaVeLi

Oh no we can't do that, some of the user's will take the pi$$ again:rolleyes:


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## Guest

MaKaVeLi said:


> Oh no we can't do that, some of the user's will take the pi$$ again:rolleyes:


 Are you not going to become a "user" your self pretty soon pretty boy?

Every thing is relevant to every one and nothing is relevant to any one as far as every topic goes, no diet fits every person neither does every training routine. TBH more people are natural on here than gear users by a very long shot, just the gear users seem to have a lot more posts thus it seems like there are a lot more than there really is.

As far as the section, why bother it will be just another section which is rarely posted in.


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## MaKaVeLi

Con said:


> Are you not going to become a "user" your self pretty soon pretty boy?


Yes I am dear, I cant wait for the nut shrinkage!


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## Guest

MaKaVeLi said:


> Yes I am dear, I cant wait for the nut shrinkage!


 I hope your sister does not mind the decreased loads......


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## MaKaVeLi

Con said:


> I hope your sister does not mind the decreased loads......


I can only manage a drop or 2 as it is.


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## D_MMA

Dont really see the point - as magic torch said in the first few post... how does natural and assisted training differ - you still train exactly the same, diets are the same... only difference is the gear... i cant see a difference in natural to assisted training other than the gains from the aas...


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## ParaManiac

DaveI said:


> how does natural and assisted training differ - you still train exactly the same, diets are the same... only difference is the gear...


Greater training volume/frequency and the ability to assimilate more food.


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## D_MMA

Yes but you dont train differently you... or eat different types of food. its all the same principle. like carly said above. stil have to train ur ass off and diet your ass off.


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## Guest

DaveI said:


> Yes but you dont train differently you... or eat different types of food. its all the same principle. like carly said above. stil have to train ur ass off and diet your ass off.


 Well you better not do Ruhl's 6 day per week volume work out if your natural or even close to natural


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## Bulk1

jw007 said:


> Because using aas you can get away with a lot more, not train as hard, not eat as well, not use as many nat supps and still make gains, so basically you can grow without much knowledge of how or what you are doing wrong.
> 
> So you could be doing something incorrectly but making gains so you assume everything is spot on....
> 
> As a natural trainer, especially those near natural potential, its harder to make gains unless everything is spot on, so they have to be a bit more careful and scientific about things...
> 
> In an ideal world all those that workout would all train perfectly, have the perfect diet and supps knowledge.....
> 
> But this is not an ideal world...
> 
> I know for a fact because i use aas etc, i dont eat no where near as well as i should, but then again i dont have to as i let the aas do the work...
> 
> I would say i have a lot of respect for a high level natural trainer as they have to live like a monk to make progress, where as i would just have another shot then go out on the p1ss PMSL


Nicely said dude :thumbup1:


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## tms1978

i don't think its necessary, some people have knowledge that is helpful regardless of whether they use gear or not. so does that mean the natty's don't want our help because we are not natural? it seems pointless to me. if someone doesn't want answers from "users" then they should clearly state "NO ANSWERS FROM DIRTY STEROID USING JUNKIES" at the start of their thread. lol


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