# is it possible to get 'ripped' without cardio?!?!?!



## ducky699

ive been cutting up now for about 3 months and lost roughly 4kg and have dropped a significant amount of bodyfat....ive become more vascular and can see more definition around my abs but ive heard that its pretty hard to get sun 8% without cardio????

im wondering if i am wasting my time just dieting or is it possible to get ripped with a strict diet and training?

Training wise im doing a 5 day hypertrophy split, my heartrate rises through drop sets, supersets etc


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## Flaxmans

Possibly but u might have to drop ur calories really low. Not something I'd personally want to do. How many cals u takin in at the minute


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## andyhuggins

Yes it is possible but not always the best way to get "ripped"


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## DC1

Best to keep calories higher and increase activity levels to get you there.

I'd much rather eat and do cardio than starve myself.


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## BodyEnergy

IMO Cardio Vascular activity is only to train your heart.

Get ripped is possible of course planing the diet at best and train as a Grizzly.

When I competed if I did cardio training I have got flat muscle and hard to get pump, if I had did circuit training my look was hard day by day and the blood wanted to go out from my veins...

I love hard and High intensity when I want to get ripped.


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## ducky699

calories are approx 1,300 per day, just from protein and little fat, next week im adding 50g carbs in the morning then the week after im trying to get some muscle mass back by having carbs with my first meal, pre-workout and post-workout. I would do cardio if i thought it was beneficial but want to keep muscle wastage to a minimum so sometimes do HIIT but rarely. I just didnt know if it was possible to reach my goal of approz 7% without doing it


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## Sway12

ducky699 said:


> calories are approx 1,300 per day, just from protein and little fat, next week im adding 50g carbs in the morning then the week after im trying to get some muscle mass back by having carbs with my first meal, pre-workout and post-workout. I would do cardio if i thought it was beneficial but want to keep muscle wastage to a minimum so sometimes do HIIT but rarely. I just didnt know if it was possible to reach my goal of approz 7% without doing it


1300 a day???? That is obscenely low.. how tall are you and what do you weigh?


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## iamyou

Of course it is. I'm not a natty anymore but when I was I never did cardio when I cut. I fasted instead  Never had to go below 2k cals either


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## rakim

Yeppers, Yesh


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## a.notherguy

ducky699 said:


> calories are approx 1,300 per day, just from protein and little fat, next week im adding 50g carbs in the morning then the week after im trying to get some muscle mass back by having carbs with my first meal, pre-workout and post-workout. I would do cardio if i thought it was beneficial but want to keep muscle wastage to a minimum so sometimes do HIIT but rarely. I just didnt know if it was possible to reach my goal of approz 7% without doing it


My missus diets on about that amount mate and she's tiny, tho does a lot of cardio.


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## Prince Adam

Abs are made in the kitchen.


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## ben123

hgh melts the fat of me just sitting around with no running involved


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## DC1

ben123 said:


> hgh melts the fat of me just sitting around with no running involved


At what dose mate? Im on GH myself at 3iu of Omnitrope upon waking and prior to fasted cardio.


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## andyhuggins

ben123 said:


> hgh melts the fat of me just sitting around with no running involved


This thread is in the "natty" section mate :lol:


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## ConP

Yes and it is far better to do so.

Low intensity cardio and weight training send mixed signals to the body.


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## PaulB

Prince Adam said:


> Abs are made in the kitchen.


One of the most irritating regurgitated quotes


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## ben123

DC1 said:


> At what dose mate? Im on GH myself at 3iu of upon waking and prior to fasted cardio.


I was using 2 iu aday. most of the Omnitrope I have seen has just been ghrp and not hgh atall


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## Stephen9069

Why not do barbell complexes instead i do these i hate getting on a treadmill or cross trainer i find it so boring


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## SK50

I don't do cardio and I stay pretty cut year round. Before holidays I usually shoot for 8 - 9% or so but don't bother with cardio to do it - I just eat less (and sometimes drop some T3).

The treadmill in my house turned into a clothes rack.

Having said that, I believe cardio would get the job done a lot quicker, and if I ever did it I'd do fast walking rather than HIIT etc.

EDIT - just realised this is in natty section - I was natty for 10 years and always managed to rip up with no cardio


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## DC1

ben123 said:


> I was using 2 iu aday. most of the Omnitrope I have seen has just been ghrp and not hgh atall


Im trusting my source as been using him for over 10 years so i hope its legit mate. Only been on just over 1 month so a bit early to tell.


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## Prince Adam

PaulB said:


> One of the most irritating regurgitated quotes


Lol init


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## ben123

often the dealer has no idea him self am sure he thinks it real but unless you have it tested then no one really can say I just know there was a load of that stuff that was just ghrp I had some my self a while ago,


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## DC1

ben123 said:


> often the dealer has no idea him self am sure he thinks it real but unless you have it tested then no one really can say I just know there was a load of that stuff that was just ghrp I had some my self a while ago,


Yeah i know he stopped selling Gh for a while due to fakes but i think he does get the gear tested mate. Bloody hope so! Lol.


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## andyhuggins

Sorry guys but this thread is in the "natural bodybuilding" section :lol:


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## ben123

the issue with all gear and hgh is the fact the dealer most of the time has no idea the stuff can change from batch to batch thay often run a load off that's real evey one loves it then after 2 more batches ther nothing in it but it takes a while for word to get round but by then thay have made the money the lad changes name and does it again don't ask me how I know this no I don't make it my self but I know many thay do and that's how its rolls, you then have lads that make good stuff all the time but then others copy the label and bottle and its bunk I see this all the time


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## 36-26

Yes of course its possible, a lot of steady state cardio can actually lead to muscle loss especially in the legs IMO


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## Twilheimer

ducky699 said:


> calories are approx 1,300 per day, just from protein and little fat, next week im adding 50g carbs in the morning then the week after im trying to get some muscle mass back by having carbs with my first meal, pre-workout and post-workout. I would do cardio if i thought it was beneficial but want to keep muscle wastage to a minimum so sometimes do HIIT but rarely. I just didnt know if it was possible to reach my goal of approz 7% without doing it


Hi mate. Firstly, I don't believe that any male should consume anything less than 1800 calories. This is to support healthy bodily functions and basic nourishment in general. What is your evidence for having carbs in your first meal to make muscle mass? You won't be adding any size what so ever on 1300 calories no matter where you juggle your carbs around. There are a few studies that show eating carbs in your first meal of the day lowers serotonin and HGH levils throughout the day, whereas a meal consisting of proteins and fats elevates these and also balances your bloodsugar at a time when you're very catabolic.

Cardio isn't necessarily going to impede retaining muscle when you're already at such a low calorie defect. I'd suggest eating more and adding in cardio. you might find that your fat loss stalls soon due to metabolic damage caused from a constant low calorie intake, so this would actually get things going again.

It's possible to reach sub 7% without cardio, but you will have to be very precise and calculated with your diet.


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## Northern Lass

Why wouldn't you want to do cardio?


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## biglbs

Yes train heavy multi joint compounds only,with 1 min between sets,you will burn enormous amounts of cals(see how hot/fooked you get),just do plenty of sets and keep diet high in protein/fats and low in carbs....i did!


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## g_pickup87

I usually do about 35-40 mins of cardiovascular after my workout and it's helped me lose a lot of weight but I'm not cut yet. After the work out is when your glycogen is mostly (or completely) depleted and helps target stored fats.


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## harryalmighty

ConP said:


> Yes and it is far better to do so.
> 
> Low intensity cardio and weight training send mixed signals to the body.


could you elaborate please con?

really interesting.


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## mal

If you do cardio after a workout your not training hard or long enough..

Cardio burns zero fat but burns plenty of muscle ,makes your legs

Thin too

Fvck cardio.


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## biglbs

mal said:


> If you do cardio after a workout your not training hard or long enough..
> 
> Cardio burns zero fat but burns plenty of muscle ,makes your legs
> 
> Thin too
> 
> Fvck cardio.


Exactly just train faster...supersets,more sets,higher reps,multi joint compound stuff,it will work..


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## ConP

harryalmighty said:


> could you elaborate please con?
> 
> really interesting.


Low intensity endurance cardio can convert the muscle fibers from fast to slow twitch.

Just really not that fantastic.

That said daily activity such as walking outside for an hour or so can be performed with no issue at all.


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## harryalmighty

ConP said:


> Low intensity endurance cardio can convert the muscle fibers from fast to slow twitch.
> 
> Just really not that fantastic.
> 
> That said daily activity such as walking outside for an hour or so can be performed with no issue at all.


brilliant. knowledgeable as always, cheers mate.


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## gearchange

g_pickup87 said:


> I usually do about 35-40 mins of cardiovascular after my workout and it's helped me lose a lot of weight but I'm not cut yet. After the work out is when your glycogen is mostly (or completely) depleted and helps target stored fats.


How do you manage that,I can barely move after a workout let alone do cardio..I suggest you need to intensify your weights.


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## g_pickup87

gearchange said:


> How do you manage that,I can barely move after a workout let alone do cardio..I suggest you need to intensify your weights.


My weights are plenty intense mate, don't worry. Regardless if im knackered or not after a workout I always do 30-40 mins on a bike or cross trainer at a medium/high intensity.


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## biglbs

g_pickup87 said:


> My weights are plenty intense mate, don't worry. Regardless if im knackered or not after a workout I always do 30-40 mins on a bike or cross trainer at a medium/high intensity.


Come and workout with @gearchange and myself,i recon you may just about be able to get home:lol:


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## g_pickup87

biglbs said:


> Come and workout with @gearchange and myself,i recon you may just about be able to get home:lol:


Lol, sounds good to me man! I just make it home as it is after dragging myself on and off a bus.


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## biglbs

g_pickup87 said:


> Lol, sounds good to me man! I just make it home as it is after dragging myself on and off a bus.


Lucky you get home realy


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## martin brown

I got from 20% to 9.5% without any cardio at all and no 'diet' more complicated than trying not to eat as much crap!

Just squatting, benching and deadlifting 4 times a week.


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## g_pickup87

biglbs said:


> Lucky you get home realy


Aye i count my lucky starts every night I get home lol. Where about do you guys workout?


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## Trevor McDonald

Yes


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## biglbs

g_pickup87 said:


> Aye i count my lucky starts every night I get home lol. Where about do you guys workout?


It was a rhetorical question buddy,i never even met him yet:lol:


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## Skye666

PaulB said:


> One of the most irritating regurgitated quotes


But true


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## Big ape

1,300 cals i would be a skeleton


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## Big ape

this might help


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## PaulB

Skye666 said:


> But true


Only up to a point. Diet helps build and or show them but they still need working like any other muscle group.


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## Skye666

PaulB said:


> Only up to a point. Diet helps build and or show them but they still need working like any other muscle group.


I agree they still need working but it depends what look ur going for I would have thought and how dense u want it to look. They are still made in the kitchen tho and without cardio they will come through


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## Dark sim

Skye666 said:


> I agree they still need working but it depends what look ur going for I would have thought and how dense u want it to look. They are still made in the kitchen tho and without cardio they will come through


Never did any cardio, had abs as a natural at 19 1/2 st. So its true, does depend on body type and of course diet.


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## PaulB

Skye666 said:


> I agree they still need working but it depends what look ur going for I would have thought and how dense u want it to look. They are still made in the kitchen tho and without cardio they will come through


Well I look pretty dense:blink:lol


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## Skye666

Dark sim said:


> Never did any cardio, had abs as a natural at 19 1/2 st. So its true, does depend on body type and of course diet.


19 and half stone u say... :wub: ..... and u had abs? Double :wub: ....


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## Skye666

PaulB said:


> Well I look pretty dense:blink:lol


Lol...self confessed Paul someone on here will use that against u careful


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## Unit_69

Dark sim said:


> Never did any cardio, had abs as a natural at 19 1/2 st. So its true, does depend on body type and of course diet.


A 273lb natural with abs? That's some going man, I take it you are pretty tall?


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## cas

Dark sim said:


> Never did any cardio, had abs as a natural at 19 1/2 st. So its true, does depend on body type and of course diet.


Pull the other one, unless your like 7 foot tall I call BS


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## Dark sim

Unit_69 said:


> A 273lb natural with abs? That's some going man, I take it you are pretty tall?


6' 2", there are pics on here

I'm a dirty roider now.


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## Dark sim

cas said:


> Pull the other one, unless your like 7 foot tall I call BS


Aww Bless you lol. I've been on here long enough, maybe you should pay attention. I'm 6' 2".

Maybe I work harder than you, maybe my diet is better than yours, maybe my genetics are better than yours.

I posted in natural section when I first joined, not natural anymore and how things change


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## Unit_69

Dark sim said:


> 6' 2", there are pics on here
> 
> I'm a dirty roider now.


not too tall, blooming heck mate impressive. Can you link me to those photos?


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## Dark sim

Yeah sure I'll find them.............


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## SkinnyJ

You may have abs but that doesnt mean you have low bodyfat. Your legs in those pictures arent lean. You are obviously lucky and just hold fat in different areas.


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## Dark sim

SkinnyJ said:


> You may have abs but that doesnt mean you have low bodyfat. Your legs in those pictures arent lean. You are obviously lucky and just hold fat in different areas.


Who are you referring to? Quote them its much easier for the person to answer.


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## Dark sim

Unit_69 said:


> not too tall, blooming heck mate impressive. Can you link me to those photos?


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=178495&page=23&p=4217661#post4217661


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## cas

Dark sim said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=178495&page=23&p=4217661#post4217661


Fair play. You must have bones made of lead mate. I am really not trying to take anything away from you here but you don't look that heavy. Very oddly proportioned

Well done though


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## Dark sim

cas said:


> Fair play. You must have bones made of lead mate. I am really not trying to take anything away from you here but you don't look that heavy. Very oddly proportioned
> 
> Well done though


Oddly proportioned lol. Please elaborate?

Doesn't bode well for the stage haha.

My bones are made of Adamantium.


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## cas

Dark sim said:


> Oddly proportioned lol. Please elaborate?
> 
> Doesn't bode well for the stage haha.
> 
> My bones are made of Adamantium.


Well you are my total opposite, you don't look like you hold fat in the normal places. You look like you hold fat on your arms and legs and yet your body is fairly lean.

My arms are lean and veiny, which makes people think that I look like that all over. But when I take my top off I look like ****. I hold all my fat on my belly and lower back but my arms and legs are lean


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## Dark sim

Yeah I agree. always had abs, but never had veins in arms or legs.

To be honest at 21st, which is now I'm still not impressed with the size I carry. Will only tell what muscle I carry when I cut for stage, few weeks away.


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## SkinnyJ

Dark sim said:


> Who are you referring to? Quote them its much easier for the person to answer.


Im referring to you, thought i had clicked quote but obviously not.

You obviously hold fat in different areas to most. Thats my point, its easy to say oh im 17 stone with abs ( impressive stil )

but it doesnt mean youre lean. Anyways like Cas im not tryin to take anything away from you, you have a good physique and very impressive youre just very lucky in the fact you dont hold fat over your abs. Me personally my legs are the first thing to lean right up which is opposite to you.


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## dtlv

Yes you can get ripped without cardo - IMO lower carb and keto diets generally work best for those who are exercise shy, whereas those who train more or who are active generally tend to get better results with higher carb - to my observations anyway.

Personally though, when not achieving energy deficit through much in the way of added activity/exercise but relying almost entirely on food restriction to do it, I find in myself and with clients hunger pangs being much more of an issue for many - the advantage of using exercise such as cardio to help achieve part of the deficit is that you can cut on a higher food intake, and protect your metabolism from adaptive thermogenesis for longer.


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## bail

I would rather keep cals higher and do more cardio,

But that's just my preference


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## harryalmighty

dtlv said:


> Yes you can get ripped without cardo - IMO lower carb and keto diets generally work best for those who are exercise shy, whereas those who train more or who are active generally tend to get better results with higher carb - to my observations anyway.
> 
> Personally though, when not achieving energy deficit through much in the way of added activity/exercise but relying almost entirely on food restriction to do it, I find in myself and with clients hunger pangs being much more of an issue for many - the advantage of using exercise such as cardio to help achieve part of the deficit is that you can cut on a higher food intake, and protect your metabolism from adaptive thermogenesis for longer.


exactly what i was thinking.

read cons post and thought oh god what have i done.

but 15 min sessions to just push myself in to a further -200 deficit isn't going to hurt is it?


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## dtlv

harryalmighty said:


> exactly what i was thinking.
> 
> read cons post and thought oh god what have i done.
> 
> but 15 min sessions to just push myself in to a further -200 deficit isn't going to hurt is it?


Is just about sensible balance I think and not ignoring your body. Some people seem to have a greater or lesser ability to do cardio in a deficit before the muscle starts dissolving - I think it's about gradual increases in cardio as the cut goes on but being self aware of when it starts to negatively impact muscle, and at that point not pushing any further with it but to concentrate on any further restrictions coming more from dietary tweaks. Preserving muscle IMO should always been seen as a high priority on a cut - even if it means cutting body fat more slowly it leads to a better physique in the end.


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## ConP

harryalmighty said:


> exactly what i was thinking.
> 
> read cons post and thought oh god what have i done.
> 
> but 15 min sessions to just push myself in to a further -200 deficit isn't going to hurt is it?


My post is more aimed at those doing vast amounts of low intensity cardio each week.

A couple of hours per week will be fine.....


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## Cronus

I like to eat more than a 16 year old girl does so for me the answer is no.


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## hackskii

Yes one is able to get ripped with no cardio, diet is the most important thing for weight loss, I personally feel the whole cardio thing is over rated.

Now perhaps for striations and separations to be seen on stage it probably is a good idea, but not to get ripped.

I have known guys go crazy with cardio and they got leaner but at the expense of the muscle.


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## dtlv

I agree with Con, a few half hour sessions of quality cardio a week are not likely to destroy muscle, but the hours and hours of steady state low intensity stuff that some people end up doing when cutting is almost always a muscle killer.


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## RocoElBurn

Con has added his input and that it's not only possible but it's better in his opinion. I'm sure he knows what he's on about plus, those asking "why don't you want to do cardio?" / "it's good for your heart" etc... are obviously unaware how much work your heart puts in to an intense weight lifting session.


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## ConP

RocoElBurn said:


> Con has added his input and that it's not only possible but it's better in his opinion. I'm sure he knows what he's on about plus, those asking "why don't you want to do cardio?" / "it's good for your heart" etc... are obviously unaware how much work your heart puts in to an intense weight lifting session.


Plus the average "cardio" session is no better than walking around.

If you want heart health push the prowler like a lunatic or do all out 30 second sprints.

Walking on the treadmill or slowing stepping on the stair stepper is only helping if you're in poor shape to start with.


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## RocoElBurn

ConP said:


> Plus the average "cardio" session is no better than walking around.
> 
> If you want heart health push the prowler like a lunatic or do all out 30 second sprints.
> 
> Walking on the treadmill or slowing stepping on the stair stepper is only helping if you're in poor shape to start with.


Yep, for what I have available I only (occasionally) do short sprints/speed cycling, Battle ropes or farmers walk. Keeps the enjoyment up too (a workout you enjoy is one you'll do).


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## hackskii

Or, put your woman in the car and push her around the block.

Or, grab a big bag of cement and walk till you drop.

Tire flips, tug of war with someone bigger, and stronger:lol:

Ever see big girls do aerobics, and over time look like a smaller version of themselves?


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## Deasy

Workout on a heavy bag and throw in some (lots) of burpees,melt fat without having to spend 45 mins on a treadmill and probably less likely to eat into your strength gains IMO...


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## Davyy

ConP said:


> Yes and it is far better to do so.
> 
> Low intensity cardio and weight training send mixed signals to the body.


So is that good or bad?

As you've described exactly what I'm doing.


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## musio

An old thread but it's that time of year...

Surprised to read how many people dismiss cardio. In the long term, dropping calories too low isn't good as your body starts to acclimatise to new setpoint. A combination of a calorie defect and cardio is works best (for me anyway).


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## Jamieson

There is absolutely no need what so ever to do any type of cardio to get ripped/cut/shredded or any other way of discribing low body fat, visable abs, beach body or competition ready.

Anyone who says other wise is deluded.

Having said that, there are health benfits to doing low intensity cardio but certainly no need to do it if you're tarining with enought intensity on your weights workouts.

Just look at the medical research that has been done recently in Germany with recovering cardiac patients, instead of the usual cardio rehab work they were put on HIT style weights routines and ended up more muscular AND with the same improvements in cardio capacity taht they would have had following a cardio only route.

Rant over


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## Ultrasonic

musio said:


> In the long term, dropping calories too low isn't good as your body starts to acclimatise to new setpoint.


The signifcance of this can I believe be reduced by two things:

1) High carb refeed days.

2) Not immediately jumping to the lowest calorie intake you can handle, to reduce the effect on BMR, and to give you room to manoeuvre as your BMR does drop.

Not that I'm dismissing cardio as a useful tool.


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