# 20% to 15% bf - how long?



## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Sadly, the 9lbs you lose, unless you are geared up to the eyeballs will NOT just be fat.

I bet you have at least 9lbs of water that will come off first.

Realistically you can lose 0.5% a week. Possibly a little more, given that you are going from 20 to 15 (it's easier than going from 15 to 10). So you are looking at 8 weeks or so IMO, certainly within 2 months.

Get your calories right (I would start at 2500 and adjust over time)... high protein, low carb (with most of your carbs around workout) and moderate fats. Do some morning cardio 3-4 times a week. Have a look at some of the diets pscarb and tiny tom have posted up.... those are the foods you need to be eating.


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

big said:


> Sadly, the 9lbs you lose, unless you are geared up to the eyeballs will NOT just be fat.
> 
> I bet you have at least 9lbs of water that will come off first.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Big - that makes complete sense. I would be more than happy taking 2 months to get to 15% (I'm aged 40).

So, do you think a low carb macro like p40/c25/f35 would be good?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

That's the right sort of ballpark. I would up the carbs on work-out days, and lower them a bit from noon onwards on rest days.

When going low carb, a big thing is to have regular carb-ups (as in mostly clean carbs)... and/or to cycle your carbs. This will ensure your metabolism stays high and you retain more muscle.


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

big said:


> That's the right sort of ballpark. I would up the carbs on work-out days, and lower them a bit from noon onwards on rest days.
> 
> When going low carb, a big thing is to have regular carb-ups (as in mostly clean carbs)... and/or to cycle your carbs. This will ensure your metabolism stays high and you retain more muscle.


Great - that's very helpful. I will try def. try this for next 2 months.

I'm planning to do this 4 day split routine at the same time. Do you think it fits with the diet plan?

*Mon: LEGS*

SQUATS

LEG CURLS

CALF RAISES

*Tue: CHEST/TRI*

BENCH

FLYS

DIPS - TARGETS CHEST & TRI?

TRI PULLDOWNS

*Thu: SHOULDERS/ABS*

MILITARY PRESS

SIDE LATERALS

HANGING LEG RAISES

*Fri: BACK/BI*

DEADLIFTS

PULL UPS

ROWS

BI CURLS

Thanks a lot for your help.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Looks pretty solid, although I would split it over 3 days so that you are going back to the same lift every 9-10 days instead of 7.

e.g:

Mon - legs

Wed - chest

Fri - back

Mon - shoulders

Wed - legs

Fri - chest

etc

As you are cutting, this gives you more recovery time. Sensible way to play things given you are sub-maintenance calories and doing some cardio too.

But good to see a routine based mainly around the core lifts... nice work, you've done your reading


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

big said:


> Looks pretty solid, although I would split it over 3 days so that you are going back to the same lift every 9-10 days instead of 7.
> 
> e.g:
> 
> ...


Sometimes there's so many conflicting opinions it's hard to know what you should do. But I read around and reckoned keeping it simple with compounds for a while was something most people could agree on...maybe.

Thanks a lot for the help. Do you mind if I ask you any questions if they come up over the next 2 months?

Cheers.


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## Ironclad (Jun 23, 2009)

good luck N2008, you can do it. I'm 40 as well, managed 25-14% in around 3-4 months.

Hey Big, what is the reason for the 15-10% drop being easier?


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Witch-King said:


> good luck N2008, you can do it. I'm 40 as well, managed 25-14% in around 3-4 months.
> 
> Hey Big, what is the reason for the 15-10% drop being easier?


Thanks WK. 3-4 months sounds very impressive.

Nice one.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Newbie2008 said:


> Sometimes there's so many conflicting opinions it's hard to know what you should do. But I read around and reckoned keeping it simple with compounds for a while was something most people could agree on...maybe.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the help. Do you mind if I ask you any questions if they come up over the next 2 months?
> 
> Cheers.


Feel free to ask anything you like.... thats what we're here for 

Good luck with the dieting


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Witch-King said:


> good luck N2008, you can do it. I'm 40 as well, managed 25-14% in around 3-4 months.
> 
> Hey Big, what is the reason for the 15-10% drop being easier?


No mate, the 20-15% drop is easier. Either you read my post wrong or I wrote it wrong. Or both 

The fatter you are, the more weight you lose is bodyfat. As you get leaner and keep cutting, it's easier to lose muscle and harder to lose fat.

The same (well, opposite) holds true for gaining mass... the leaner you are, the easier it is to gain lean mass without fat. The fatter you are, the more fat goes on.


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

big said:


> Feel free to ask anything you like.... thats what we're here for
> 
> Good luck with the dieting


Thanks Big. One last question before I get going:

Is low rep range better for this programme (3x5, 5x5) or higher (4x8, 4x12)?

Cheers


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Lower reps on the heavy main lift, and lighter on the assistance stuff. You get the best of both then.

e.g: Chest/tris

Bench (work up to a 5RM/3RM/1RM - rotate weekly)

Incline DB press 2-3 sets of 8-12

Weighted dips 2-3 sets of 8-12

Skulls (optional) 2-3 sets of 8-12

AND OUT


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

big said:


> Lower reps on the heavy main lift, and lighter on the assistance stuff. You get the best of both then.
> 
> e.g: Chest/tris
> 
> ...


perfect for any1 at any level. people over complicate things far to much. if you dont make gains doing something like the above you aint training hard enough and/or your diet stinks.

id rep you big but :lol:


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

big said:


> Lower reps on the heavy main lift, and lighter on the assistance stuff. You get the best of both then.
> 
> e.g: Chest/tris
> 
> ...


Does that mean that in wk3 I do only 1 rep on bench and that's it? Or I do 3 sets with progressively heavier weight last set being 1 rep?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

All weeks should be working up to the prescribed rep max. Never walk in and try to lift your max without spending a good 10-20 mins+ (depending on your level) doing warm-up sets, which should be easy but gets the blood flowing and gets you accustomed to the weight.

For example, if you bench 100kgx1, that probably means you can get about 5 reps with 85kg at a push. So your workout looks like this:

20kg (bar) x lots x a couple of sets

40kg x 5

60kg x 5

75kg x 5

85kg x 5

Then if you're feeling up to it, try for 87.5x5 or 90x5 for a new rep max. If you really have some balls, skip the 75kg set, do 80kg and then 90kg. But you risk missing then.

For 1RM week, do something like this:

Bar x lots

40kg x 5

60kg x 3

80kg x 1

90kg x 1

100kg x 1

Then try for 102.5 or 105. Or go 80, 95, 105 if you are feeling lucky 

Always work up. Of course, if you are a 180kg bencher, you will need WAY more warm-ups progressively (e.g. bar, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 170, 180+). Similarly, if you are benching 40kg x 5, you may only need 3 sets or so working up. But you still need to warm up, even if you are lifting low numbers.

On the assistance stuff, just do 1 set at 70-80% of your working weight (i.e what you will lift for your main set), and then 1-2 sets with your working weight. This is because you will already be warmed up from the compound lift, so shouldnt need much warming up on assistance.

So for example, you've just done your heavy benching, and you're about to go to incline DB:

30kg x 10 x 1 set

40kg x 10 x 1-2 sets


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## Newbie2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

big said:


> All weeks should be working up to the prescribed rep max. Never walk in and try to lift your max without spending a good 10-20 mins+ (depending on your level) doing warm-up sets, which should be easy but gets the blood flowing and gets you accustomed to the weight.
> 
> For example, if you bench 100kgx1, that probably means you can get about 5 reps with 85kg at a push. So your workout looks like this:
> 
> ...


That all makes sense.

Thanks Big. You have taken a lot of time and trouble. Looks like run up to Xmas will be fun.

Cheers.


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## stevo99 (Nov 28, 2008)

good luck with this dude, are you going to keep a log?


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## Round-2 (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm 40, having a hell of a fight to keep fat down. Started running every morning hoping it works, cycling carbs. On the upside no problem packing muscle on even on a reduced calorie diet.

Good luck mate, gets harder as we age methinks.

Nice info Big thanks.


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## TedE (Nov 2, 2009)

Yeah, It's something like a 50 year old man has to excercise 3 times as much as a 25 year old man to get the same results.


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