# Anybody follow a 1970s medium protein/high fat/low carb bodybuilding diet?



## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Back in the 70s they done the high fat/low carb diet Monday-Saturday then carb loaded on Sunday. Those guys stayed lean as hell while gaining muscle. Is there anybody here who follows this type of diet? It's tried and proven to work. I was thinking about following it, what do people think?

Each meal was beef burger/chicken/cottage cheese/whole eggs/cheese omelette/tuna salad... things like that. Then Sunday was spaghetti and meatballs/cheesecake/pizza... things like that. Seems like a tasty fun diet.

Arnold's old training partner Ric Drasin has made YouTube videos talking about this diet in better detail.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Eating like that just leaves me feeling lethargic & constantly hungry.

Give me the 1980's high carb diet, but without the stupidly low fat.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Eating like that just leaves me feeling lethargic & constantly hungry.
> 
> Give me the 1980's high carb diet, but without the stupidly low fat.


If you eat high carb/high fat do you not just gain too much weight? I'm not a major fan of carbs in general... eating oatmeal and rice all day isn't exciting.

Cheesy eggs and fatty beef is more appealing.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Varenagan said:


> If you eat high carb/high fat do you not just gain too much weight? I'm not a major fan of carbs in general... eating oatmeal and rice all day isn't exciting.
> 
> Cheesy eggs and fatty beef is more appealing.


You gain weight if you go over your maintenance calories for extended periods - nothing to do with the balance of macros. I'm quite active & have a fast metabolism, so that lets me eat plenty.

Different people function better on different macro splits. Back in the 80's, we all used to try to follow a 20-25% protein, 55-65% carb and 15-20% fat split, which did end up being oatmeal & rice all day. Some people are better off on that sort of diet, whilst others on the diet you are talking about. It depends on your insulin sensitivity, your activity levels and what sort of foods you prefer.

My current split tends to be about 20-25% protein, 45-55% carb and 25-30% fat, which seems ideal to me, because it gives me good results & tends to be the macro split I end up with when I just eat normally.


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## Super -ingh (Aug 2, 2009)

Carbs are a killer for me, i just tend to bloat on it.

so tryna adopt as much as possible for this, i tried the scrambled egg on beef patty, its really nice lol

im gna give this a go for the next 10 weeks and see if i lean up, started yesterday.


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

I eat high prorein, moderate fat and low carb.

Generally around 50-80g carbs a day Max.

I prefer this style of eating as high carbs do not sit well with me.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Super $ingh said:


> Carbs are a killer for me, i just tend to bloat on it.
> 
> so tryna adopt as much as possible for this, i tried the scrambled egg on beef patty, its really nice lol
> 
> im gna give this a go for the next 10 weeks and see if i lean up, started yesterday.


The guys back in the 70s were always lean on this diet and they didn't pig out as much. I'm sure fat is quite a slow release energy so you're insulin levels won't be going as crazy. We all know fat tastes better in its raw form than carbs. Eating a fried egg, a piece of cheese and a greasy beef burger will obviously taste better and keep you leaner than plain brown rice or toast. It's a no-brainer for me.


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## Super -ingh (Aug 2, 2009)

but i think it does depend on insulin sensitivity aswell, Some guys hammer carbs and still stay lean somehow.

the high fat gives me good enery whereas high carbs makes me tired. but love the old school physiques, oh not to mention they used to hammer dbol by the handfuls


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

Carbs are so important for me otherwise I just shrink.... eat around 500g of carbs of day

I know people who eat 1g of carbs a day and are still lean


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## Hulksome (Jun 21, 2013)

Ill be honest and think this whole industry is corrupt "low fat" low fat cheese, milk etc, driving prices up, whey protein selling the waste of cheese.

Ever since ive been doing high fat low carbs mod protein 6 days a week and High carb mod protein and low fat one day. I have been recomping like mad, muscles have been maintaining their size, I have been doing over 30 miles a week of steady paced cardio and Hiit, duno what it is but my body is seeing amazing results and im on my 3rd week.

You should do some research on the Anabolic diet, Ketosis CKD theres all truth in this, "egg whites" marketing bull**** etc another way to make money off the gullable, the more I learn about the human body the more sense it makes, also im not sure if you've heard of Elliot hulse but he talks about this in more detail, and he follows this diet also religiously.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Hulksome said:


> Ill be honest and think this whole industry is corrupt "low fat" low fat cheese, milk etc, driving prices up, whey protein selling the waste of cheese.
> 
> Ever since ive been doing high fat low carbs mod protein 6 days a week and High carb mod protein and low fat one day. I have been recomping like mad, muscles have been maintaining their size, I have been doing over 30 miles a week of steady paced cardio and Hiit, duno what it is but my body is seeing amazing results and im on my 3rd week.
> 
> You should do some research on the Anabolic diet, Ketosis CKD theres all truth in this, "egg whites" marketing bull**** etc another way to make money off the gullable, the more I learn about the human body the more sense it makes, also im not sure if you've heard of Elliot hulse but he talks about this in more detail, and he follows this diet also religiously.


Rich Piana also uploaded a video recently talking about that diet. His theory is that you can actually lean out while gaining muscle at the same time. Monday-Friday high fat/low carbs... Saturday-Sunday high carbs/low fat. It seems like it should work.


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

Rich piana also claims he never abused SEO, doesn't use growth and generally tells tons of porkies..so I wouldn't use him as a great source of info ...apart from where to get fake boob implants put into your arms


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

noel said:


> Rich piana also claims he never abused SEO, doesn't use growth and generally tells tons of porkies..so I wouldn't use him as a great source of info ...apart from where to get fake boob implants put into your arms


He admits to everything. He made a video a few weeks before Mr. Olympia 2014 and said he's gonna be starting a big cycle of peptides and steroids to be 300lbs and shredded so he can inspire people to keep lifting and grow. He denies nothing.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Varenagan said:


> He admits to everything. He made a video a few weeks before Mr. Olympia 2014 and said he's gonna be starting a big cycle of peptides and steroids to be 300lbs and shredded so he can inspire people to keep lifting and grow. He denies nothing.


He does admit to everything - one week he admits to something then the next week he claims exactly the opposite. He'll say whatever it takes to attract attention at the time.

In regards to what bodybuilders ate in the sixties and seventies there was a big variation between the top guys - I was lucky enough to once have a conversation with the late great Serge Nubret about this and he gave loads of examples of how different top level guys he competed against in the Mr Universe and Mr O ate so differently... and I think that's they key, get to know your own body and what works best for you personally rather than falling into the trap of believing there is one approach that is always going to be best for everyone.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

dtlv said:


> He does admit to everything - one week he admits to something then the next week he claims exactly the opposite. He'll say whatever it takes to attract attention at the time.
> 
> In regards to what bodybuilders ate in the sixties and seventies there was a big variation between the top guys - I was lucky enough to once have a conversation with the late great Serge Nubret about this and he gave loads of examples of how different top level guys he competed against in the Mr Universe and Mr O ate so differently... and I think that's they key, get to know your own body and what works best for you personally rather than falling into the trap of believing there is one approach that is always going to be best for everyone.


I seem to remember reading that Serge Nubret only used to eat one meal a day.

Agree totally though on diet - I don't think there's one size fits all.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

A lot is made of how 70s bodybuilders were lean on low carbs.

The 1980's was the decase when crazily-ripped physiques became the gold standard, and that's when (if the Weider mags were to be believed) the 60% carb diet was followed by nearly all the professionals.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> A lot is made of how 70s bodybuilders were lean on low carbs.
> 
> The 1980's was the decase when crazily-ripped physiques became the gold standard, and that's when (if the Weider mags were to be believed) the 60% carb diet was followed by nearly all the professionals.


Don't forget the HGH/IGF-1/insulin became available during the start of the 80's. I think trenbolone too. T3/clen and so on...


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Tesco are currently selling 1kg bags of chicken thighs for £2. 169g protein and 163g fat per bag. Eat one bag a day is amazing for this diet. It's not Tesco Value rubbish... it's proper chicken... 98%.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Varenagan said:


> Don't forget the HGH/IGF-1/insulin became available during the start of the 80's. I think trenbolone too. T3/clen and so on...


Oh yes - the availability of new drugs definitely played a massive role in this. T3 was around in the 70's (Frank Zane was rumoured to use it heavily), and as I recall GH & Insulin began to make their mark in the late 80's and early 90's - this was when the pros suddenly started getting a lot bigger.

I'd guess that Tren was the compound that made the big difference, because it's so good at preserving muscle on a precontest diet.

But still - the change in diet between the two periods was quite extreme, and it shows that a high carb diet can still do the job. I remember reading an article in one of the Weider mags around 1985 or so where it looked at the dietary habits of the top professionals, and Bertil Fox was the only one still using the low-carb approach. All the rest were on oatmeal & eggwhites.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Some great bodybuilders of the last couple of decades were not ultra low carb or keto advocates - Lee Haney, Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Shawn Ray, Kevin Levrone all come to mind as not cutting on extremely low carbs. Sure they controlled carb intake, but were just as cautious about dietary fat intake, especially at the latter phase of their pre contest cuts.

I will say one thing however - for most of us, doing what any top guy does/did isn't necessarily going to be the best option. All the top guys, whether low or high carb, low or high fat, were/are genetic elite and high responders. I know some people say that doesn't matter, but I believe it most definitely does, and most of us should recognise we'd do better trying to find what works for us individually rather than what the top guys did - often that route just leads to people getting in a big mess in my experience.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Varenagan said:


> Tesco are currently selling 1kg bags of chicken thighs for £2. 169g protein and 163g fat per bag. Eat one bag a day is amazing for this diet. It's not Tesco Value rubbish... it's proper chicken... 98%.


Thanks for the reminder!! Used to have 4 or 5 as a snack.

Yummy

Sticking it on next shopping list

 Prince Adam likes this post


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

dtlv said:


> Some great bodybuilders of the last couple of decades were not ultra low carb or keto advocates - Lee Haney, Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Shawn Ray, Kevin Levrone all come to mind as not cutting on extremely low carbs. Sure they controlled carb intake, but were just as cautious about dietary fat intake, especially at the latter phase of their pre contest cuts.
> 
> I will say one thing however - for most of us, doing what any top guy does/did isn't necessarily going to be the best option. All the top guys, whether low or high carb, low or high fat, were/are genetic elite and high responders. I know some people say that doesn't matter, but I believe it most definitely does, and most of us should recognise we'd do better trying to find what works for us individually rather than what the top guys did - often that route just leads to people getting in a big mess in my experience.


Ric Drasin once said that carbs are stored as fat if not used up but actual fat you get from food is used as energy... do you not see how back then they weren't bloated but now they are? It ain't genetics that much... it's the lack of carbs.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Prince Adam said:


> Thanks for the reminder!! Used to have 4 or 5 as a snack.
> 
> Yummy
> 
> ...


The offer is over now. They're back to £2.50... not too bad though.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Varenagan said:


> Ric Drasin once said that carbs are stored as fat if not used up but actual fat you get from food is used as energy... do you not see how back then they weren't bloated but now they are? It ain't genetics that much... it's the lack of carbs.


That's actually the wrong way around though when you look at studies on such things - when the body is overfed glucose/carbs you have to overfeed by an insane amount to even start converting carbs to fat, over 12g per 1kg of bodyweight, but dietary fat is easily transported into fat cells.

The issue with carbs is that when on a high carb diet the body switches from burning body fat to burning glycogen, so over the course of a day less fat is burned... but that's only an issue if calories are in excess, if calories are in an overall deficit then glycogen burning can never exceed or even reach the total calories burned so fat will always be burned too.

Physiologically it basically goes like this:

Low carb/high fat diet = less glycogen stored/less glycogen burned, more fat burned/more fat stored

Higher carb/lower fat diet = more glycogen stored/more glycogen burned, less fat burned/less fat stored

Overall it balances out when protein is matched between diet types and just carb and protein ratios differ.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

dtlv said:


> That's actually the wrong way around though when you look at studies on such things - when the body is overfed glucose/carbs you have to overfeed by an insane amount to even start converting carbs to fat, over 12g per 1kg of bodyweight, but dietary fat is easily transported into fat cells.
> 
> The issue with carbs is that when on a high carb diet the body switches from burning body fat to burning glycogen, so over the course of a day less fat is burned... but that's only an issue if calories are in excess, if calories are in an overall deficit then glycogen burning can never exceed or even reach the total calories burned so fat will always be burned too.
> 
> ...


I understand your logic and appreciate your reply but statistics and studies mean nothing compared to tried and tested first hand experience that these guys had an abundance of. A scientist can hide in his lab and write article after article but all you have to do is look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lou Ferrigno, Mike Katz, Mike Mentzer... take your pick.


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## jammie2013 (Nov 14, 2013)

Varenagan said:


> I understand your logic and appreciate your reply but statistics and studies mean nothing compared to tried and tested first hand experience that these guys had an abundance of. A scientist can hide in his lab and write article after article but all you have to do is look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lou Ferrigno, Mike Katz, Mike Mentzer... take your pick.


Selection bias vs standard distribution

hmmm...I wonder what applies to us more

seriously, you need to radically adjust your thinking


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Varenagan said:


> I understand your logic and appreciate your reply but statistics and studies mean nothing compared to tried and tested first hand experience that these guys had an abundance of. A scientist can hide in his lab and write article after article but all you have to do is look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lou Ferrigno, Mike Katz, Mike Mentzer... take your pick.


Experience is right, but there are just as many bodybuilders who have succeeded on different diet types and their experiences are valid too. You shouldn't be taking a pick, you should be looking at everything overall and seeing that the only meaningful conclusion from the varied diets that others have had success on is that different diets work for different people - and from that concluding that the only commonality in success is experimenting intelligently and finding what is right for yourself while not being slave to any one particular ideology.


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