# cortisol / catabolism



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

Right I am DEEP into what I would call muscle research. (Hence all the stupid questions latley).

Next subject that I have a couple of questions on is homeostasis and specifically catabolic control.

It seems strange to me that AN EQUAL amount of gains can be realised with proper control and reduction in the catabolic environment in comparison to enhancing the anabolic state, but no-one seems to talk about how to reduce the catabolic state (eg Cortisol release).

In laymans terms:

We all aim to increase our anabolic state through the use of AAS ect but what do we do to decrease our catabolic state? I understand that use of AAS can have some reduction of catabolism, but that is not the intention of the AAS user, rather it is a nice "Side effect" that most probably dont even know is happening.

Now when we talk about reducing catabolism (And therefore messing up the homeostasis process), we need to understand that catabolism is actually a GOOD thing as it helps to repair muscle and clear toxins ect.

BUT a small reduction can lead to huge gains in size ect.

So questions would be:

What would be a safe catabolic reduction?

What can a individual do to reduce cortisol or catabolic hormones?

Cheers


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

There are the obvious ones you most likely already know:

Sleep well

destress

avoid starving

avoid prolonged physical exertion


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## stow (Jun 5, 2007)

Cortisol - seriously underrated hormone!

Produced by the adrenal glands, under physical or emotional stress.

Reduces protein synthesis (bad news), facilitates breakdown of protein to glucose and slows tissue repair. BIG IMPACT for bodybuilders.

But you do need it as part of homeostasis, namely regulating inflammatory reponse and in some extreme times, maintaining blood sugar.

One of the best ways (outside of the previous comments) to manage cortisol levels, is to supplement glutamine. Cortisol release causes breakdown of muscle to release glutamine. In supplement terms, its probably as good, if not better, than creatine. Take first thing on a morning and post-exercise. These are the times that cortisol is at its highest.

And consider this. You will never see any grow at an optimum rate when they are stressed!

STOW


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## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

Yes great stuff guys but I am looking for something a wee bit deeper. No doubt in my future reaserch I will find what I am looking for.

I am sure some anti-depresants block/control the release of cortisol, so maybe St Johns wort does the same?????????????????????

Based on what I have researched if one could control / reduce catabolism then the gains would be at least comparable to using AAS, which as you know increases the anabolic environment and creates an inbalance in homeostasis (Anabolic positve).

BTW this is not crazy science but fact. Your body gets rid of around 130lbs of tissue each year through catabolism, thats right 130lbs!!!! On the flip side you produce about 130lbs of muscle each year (Anabolic). Most bodybuilders using gear increase the anabolic rate to around 10% in favour of catabolism. Thereby *gaining *about 13lbs each year (With proper diet / training etc). Now imagine if you reduced the catabolic rate by 10%, this in addition to a higher anabolic state would *at least* double your gains....................


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## stow (Jun 5, 2007)

I will look into it.


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## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

OK based on pure Google searches I have found something called "Dexamethasone" that is clased as a steroid but is NOT anabolic (Catabolic), but it seemingly reduces cortisol levels. However interestingly bodybuilders who were given it by thier doctor reported "Being the biggest they have ever been".

Can anyone shed some more light on this??????

PS St johns wort is "Claimed" to reduce cortisol levels (Might do a wee self study on my next course LOL).


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

I have looked deep into this. You want to do some research on "cushings syndrome" which is a disease where people have lethal (if not controled) levels of cortisol.

They are commonly given a drug called "Cytadren"

here are some links.

http://www.ukiron.net/showthread.php?t=3305 (may have to join to read the thread)

Another drug which is an anti-depresent is "Remeron" that has an advantage over Cytadren especially for PCT in that it doesnt inhitit production of testosterone.

This subject is absolutely huge and I could rant for hours on it..

I would recommend anyone interested in it to read "building the perfect beast" by L. Rea. He explains it much better than I ever could.

Best time for anti-cortisol drugs imo is during PCT. Cortisol is very high during this period and you have just removed your anabolic side of the ratio which obviously leaves you open to catabolism.

I would also emphasis extreme caution with these drugs as is abused they can stop the bodys ability to fight infection and even lead to death.


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## stow (Jun 5, 2007)

Cortisol controls the inflammatory response, thats how is ties into fighting infection. To be honest Delhi, while your thinking is very progressive, managing cortisol levels in any 'extreme' way is pretty risky. It also maintains cardiac function, and assists in maintenance of blood pressure, two aspects particularly relevant to a bodybuilder I think.

You could have a read about phosphatidylserine.


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## andr0lic (Aug 20, 2007)

stow said:


> Cortisol controls the inflammatory response, thats how is ties into fighting infection. To be honest Delhi, while your thinking is very progressive, managing cortisol levels in any 'extreme' way is pretty risky. It also maintains cardiac function, and assists in maintenance of blood pressure, two aspects particularly relevant to a bodybuilder I think.
> 
> You could have a read about phosphatidylserine.


 I was just about to recommend doing just that, but when i got down here i was beaten to it!

(PS) is very pricey, so make sure you look into bulk powders. This product DOES work at 900 mgs a day, as I have used it many times before. promotes deeper sleep too(excess cortisol induces insomnia and disturbed sleep patterns)

I have all the classic symptoms of being a "high-secreter" so i really have to watch myself. Remember trans-fats and fried fats increase cortisol as well.

Just be careful D, as like the other members said, messing with cortisol in the extreme manner can have serious repercussions including uncontrolled inflammation and excess swelling of the brain.


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## Ryjo (Aug 25, 2007)

my dad was taking dexamethasone when he was ill and gained 4 stone of fat while his muscles shrank. i think dexamethasone is a sythetic version of cortisol and acts in the same way. ssri antidepresants reduse stress hormones but im not sure its mainly cortisol. thare are other stress hormones like adrenalin. i recently put up a post on another forum about stress hormones. as i have recently been prescribed beta blockers for high blood pressure. they block the action of adrenal stress hormones at the receptor site. i asked if the medication could block cortisol. and i got a reply off the forum doctor saying that beta blockers block adrenal receptors and cortisol attaches to glucocoticoid receptors. but he did say " not really "


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

High doses of Vitamin C

DHEA

*Here is a snip from a guy I talk to named Larry, he battled cortisol for years. His e-mail was so impressive I kept it for refrence. I met him on a TRT board for men's health. Very sharp dude.*

I have some learned information from you on that topic. Those OTC products are good for people with high normal ranges of cortisol or even slightly elevated levels of cortisol... but they do very minimal with people whose problem is a medical condition, a condition were their HPA Axis (not HPT, but HPA - A as in Adrenals Glands) has gone dysfunctional and become hyperactive.

What cortisol fighters are you aware of?

I am aware of the following list:

First Level (reported most strongest):

Phosphatidylserine - aka PS (*)

Holy Basil Extract

Magnolia Bark Extract (main ingredient in Relora)

Epimedium Extract

Rhodiola Rosea Extract

Ashwagandha Extract

Second Level (Good but not quite as strong - supposedly):

Gerovital-H3

Theanine

Melatonin

Gingko Biloba

Beta-sitosterol

Passionflower

Siberian ginseng (Caution - In some people will actually increase cortisol)

Also it is reported that 2 grams of glutamine daily along with 500 mg of NAC daily supposedly brings down cortisol levels rapidly.

(*) Note that ALL the tests showing cortisol-lowering effects of PS have been performed using the PS that has been derived from tissue of bovine brain (cow's brain). Due to "mad cow scares", no commercial mfg will market PS from this source - plus it would be extremely expensive. The marketed PS is made from synthesized soy. No controlled tests have been done that have shown that this form of PS has any effect on lowering cortisol. I tried PS at the dose of 400 mg daily for three months and found NO effect on lowering my cortisol.

At one point (late 2004 and early 2005) and I went on a "Wild Man" campaign of aggressive supplementing with every "cortisol fighting supplement) that I could get my hands on. I did PS (again, and again at 400 mg), Holy Basil Extract, Magnolia Bark Extract (main ingredient in Relora), Epimedium Extract, Rhodiola Rosea Extract, Gerovital-H3, Melatonin, Gingko Biloba, Beta-sitosterol, and Ashwagandha Extract. In addition, I did the 2 grams of glutamine daily along with 500 mg of NAC daily. My 24-hr UFC cortisol test levels just prior to this extensive campaign was 222 (range on all of these tests are 20 - 100). After 3 1/2 months of doing this regimen, my cortisol levels were brought down to 110. Quite a drop, but still above the reference range - and the cost of these supplements (at the mega doses I was taking especially) was staggering. I continued these supplementation for another 2 1/2 months and then stopped 2 weeks prior to my next 24-hr UFC cortisol testing... and that test result showed cortisol levels were back to about 215. So the supplements had done nothing to actually "re-set" the HPA Axis so that cortisol production would return to normal levels. In June of '05 I then went on the AD medication Remeron. While it has some mild anti anxiety properties (and obviously is an anti depressant), the main reason we gave it a try was that it has studies showing it to be an effective anti cortisol medications (but in milder elevated case). After three months, my levels had gone from 230ish down to 96 (same reference range). My next test was done after two more months on Remeron and then one month off and my levels were then around 150s to 160s.... Right after that I went to NIH Hospital in December and had tons of cortisol testings done (many, many 24-hr UFC and for a couple of days, cortisol blood tests being done around the clock - every 30 minutes during the day and every hour nightly). Unfortunately still have not received copies of those tests yet to see where I was at then - and my Endo is not going to re-start our 24-hr UFC tests every three months until he reviews NIH data....

*So my point here is that recommendations concerning cortisol control should be made very, very carefully. Significantly elevated cortisol (even in some cases mildly elevated cortisol) can be signs of some serious illnesses - the various forms of Cushing's being predominant amongst them). Even worse - believe it or not - is if the person really has LOW cortisol and believes for some reason that there cortisol levels are high. A person in that category who then takes some of the stronger OTC cortisol supplements could drive their cortisol levels too low, creating an adrenal crisis situation and adrenal shock. This condition is generally not only very serious but most often fatal. An NIH nurse advised me that if you go into Adrenal Shock and cannot get to an ER within an hour, chances are you'll be dead. There's a saying that "too much cortisol will eventually kill you (hypercortisolism persons usually have a lifespan 10 - 15 years shorter than average), but too LOW of cortisol will kill you - RIGHT NOW... "*


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

so out of those listed would any be safe and effective to use as a supp? or while off aas or with pct to keep cortisol at bay?

what is the NAC? is that otc?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

stone14 said:


> so out of those listed would any be safe and effective to use as a supp? or while off aas or with pct to keep cortisol at bay?
> 
> what is the NAC? is that otc?


N-acetylcysteine

N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) is an altered form of the amino acid cysteine, which is commonly found in food and synthesized by the body.

Where is it found?

Cysteine, the amino acid from which NAC is derived, is found in most high-protein foods. NAC is not found in the diet.

Good for reducing cocaine addiction, used for brain damage in boys.

But unless you are diagnosed with high cortisol I would leave it alone with the exception of during PCT.

Which I just take high C, and high DHEA.

While on DHEA in high doses it is a good idea to take an AI or serm, it can elivate estrogen in men but testosterone in women.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

This has been up on the MP forum for a while posted by nrage.

*Turn Off The Catabolic Switch*

*
*By Robbie Durand, MA (originally written for MD)

"Your bleeding man", says the private. "I aint got time to bleed" replies Jesse Ventura in the move "Predator", as bullets and bombs explode around him. The alien predator stood over 7 feet tail and wa built like a brick house. The predator must have been on some potent alien supplements, because real space-flight causes rapid activation of muscle proteases that break down muscle tissue. The predator would probably have looked more like a skinny extraterretrial without the use of alien anti-catabolic agents. During spaceflight, or any form of traumatic injury involving muscle wasting - cancer, AIDS, burns and hospital immobilization - all kind of catabolic and muscle atrophy (increased myostatin production: a negative growth regulator) pathways are turned on. The ubiquitin-proteasome pathway (PPP) for muscle breakdown. Myostatin turns on the UPP pathway and breaks down muscle tissue. Unfortunatley, the UPP pathway also becomes activated during periods of high-intensity exercise and stress, when cortisol is being secreted. UPP is a mahor enemy for anyone trying to get ripped up without losing muscle. Its no coincidence that marathon runners are mostly skin and bones; marathon runners and o ther endurance athletes have an increase in UPP from not eating enough and excess training, which causes exce muscle breakdown. Most people on diets make the mistake of losing too much muscle mas when trying to get ripped up, but fear not - this article will give you the inside edge to turning off the catabolic switch.

*Triggers of UPP*

Everyone knows that cortisol is a catabolic hormone. Cortisol breaks down muscle tissue and can be overactive during periods of elecated stress i.e. overtraining, diet, emotional stress. Cortisol causes muscle tissue breakdown through the activiation of UPP. Researchers have discovered a few other mechanisms that trigger the UPP pathway. The thyroid has potent fatloss properties, as elevated thyroid levels result in increased calorie burned, particularly in the form of heat. People with excess thyroid production are often in a catabolic tate, a exce thyroid hormone production can cause muscle protein breakdown, mainly mediated by increaing UPP activity. Additionally, a low level of plasma insulin triggers protein breakdown in muscle through activation of the UPP. As you know insulin is an anti-catabolis hormone and suppreses protein breakdown. Its interesting that diabetics or patients with insulin resistance have increaes muscle protein breakdown and increased msucle atrophy due to defects in insulin signaling. The increaed breakdown of muscle in diabetics is also due to elecated UPP levels. Low-carb diets are highly effective for losing fat by controlling insulin. Some diet gurus recommend periodic high glycemic meals, which spike insulin - especially post-workout; this is not only effective for maintaining an anabolic state, bbut insulin shuts down the UPP pathway. A new study published in BMC Molecular Biology also report that increasing amino acids or leucine alone acts additively with insulin to downregulate protein breakdown and reduce UPP. The use of L-leucine while dieting seems to be effective for reducing muscle tissue breakdown by reducing UPP. IN addition to hormonal stimulators of UPP, resistance exercise also increases UPP, which is a normal adaption to exercise.

*Resistance Exercise And UPP*

Strenous resitance exerise stimulates adaption in skeletal muscle. UPP is part of the normal adaptions to exercise, but overtraining can significantly increase UPP and stop muscle gains. Muscles have a memory system that further protects it from muscular damage from exerise . An increase in UPP has been found to occur after intense resistance exercise. This increase in UPP mediates a rise in protein breakdown, followed by an immediate increase in protein synthesis required for mucle adaption in orderfor exercise to occur. It has been reported that an increase in UPP is associated with post-exercise increases in damaged muscle fibers. Eccentric exercise also increase UPP. Thompson and cordalis evaluated msucle biopsies obtained from the biceps two days after a bout of damaging, eccentric exercise. They found a 55 percent increase in UPP after exercise, relative to nonexercised control muscle; however, after repeated eccentric exercise bouts, there seems to be a muscle adaption that takes place, protecting mucle from further damage and increases in UPP activity. Willoughby and colleagues measured muscle UPP after eccentric knee extension exercises performed by healthy volunteers on two successive trials. They observed that an increase in UPP wa larger after the first trial then the second. This means muscle tries to "protect" itself from further muscular damage. Eccentric exercise produces the most robust changes, whereas concentric exercise tasks stimulate UPP, but appear to have a lesser effect. Acute increases in UPP art part of the normal adaption to resitance exercise, but chronically elecated levels caused by diet and stress (physical and emotional) lead to excess muscle tissue breakdown.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

*The Burn Victim Anti-Catabolic Diet*

*
*

*
*While trying to get ripped up, the reduced amount of calories combined with cardio and resistance exercise can lead to an increase in cortisol, which can lead to a catabolic condition. Did you know that there is an anti-catabolic diet that was specially formulated for burn victims to reverse muscle catabolism? The Shriners' Burn Diet consists of high protein and fats high in anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids that are low in pro-inflammatory omega-6 fatty acids. The diet also has been shown to enhance muscle recuperation from burns compared to the standard hospital diet.

*
Dr Cutler To The Burn Unit! *

When reducing calories and increasing cardio to lose fat, the use of agents that reduce mucle catabolism is beneficial. It should be of no surprise that tesosterone administration has been shown to decrease UPP. The use of clenbuterol is known to exert its anabolic effects largely through reduced protein muscle breakdown. Clenbuterol has been shown to significantly reduce UPP; it also appear that clenbuterol preferentially inhibits the UPP in the fast twitch muscles. Reducing muscle catabolism is eential in the medical field, as trauma doctor know that reversing the catabolic tate in trauma victims is a matter of life and death. In severe injury such as burns, skeletal muscle breakdown far exceeds synthesis, even during feeding. The traumatic insult is also associated with increased cortisol secretion. The increase in blood cortisol concentrations correlates with the severity of the injury and often persists for weeks after injury. Although trauma is accompanied y increased circulating concentrations of glucagons and catecholamines, the loss of muscle mass is likely due primarily to the effects of cortisol. The effect of cortisol on skeletal muscle is to increase protein breakdown, which increases UPP production.

Do you that there is a specially formulated medical drink called Juven to reverse catabolic conditions? Juven is a therapeutic drink clinically proven to help build muscle in cancer and HIV/AIDS patients. The best part about it is that you can all the ingrediants at a local health food store. Juven contains a patented blend of three key ingrediants: HMB, argnine and glutamine. The exact dosing in all the research studies to prevent muscle loss is 3 grams HMB, 14 grams of l-glutamine and 1 gram of L-argnine. Most of the studies to date have adminitered this blend twice a day. Some of the studies are showing increases in lean muscle mass with this supplementation without the use of resistance exercise. It is important to note that all three componnents work through different metabolic pathways and have synergistic effects. Pretty soon, your local emergency room doctors may be Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman and the rest of the MD gang due to their expertise with anti-catabolic supplements!


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

*Gllutamine*

*
*

*
*Muscle cell concentrations of glutamine are far higher than blood levels. PLasma and intramuscular glutamine concentrations drop during metabolic stresses such as surgery, burns or trauma. glutamine also increaes heat-shock proteins, which increase muscle hypertrophy. Heat-shock proteins are "celluar chaperones" involved in the management of stress-induced protein cell destruction. glutamine depletion results in dminised synthesis of heat-shock proteins. Recently, glutamine has been shown to increase heat-shock protein approximately fourfold in critical illnes. glutamine can also increase tissue glutethione levels and enhance antioxidant capacity. The use of glutamine seems to be especially warranted during dieting when caloric restriction, exercise frequency and exercise intensity are at their highest.

*Argnine*

Dietary supplementation with argnine has also been shown to safely induce positive nitrogen balance in humans by increasing muscle protein synthesis and inhibiting muscle proteasome acitivity. The most important pathway of argnine metabolism appears to be its conversion to orthinine in the liver, which is a precursor for protein synthesis. Arginine supplementation, usually up to 20 grams per day, has been reported to reduce weight loss and nutrogen loss and improve nitrogen retention and wound healing. The mechanism for this action is unclear. One mechanism may be stimulation of the release of growth hormone. Another mechanism may be through stimulation of nitric oxide (NO) production, as NO is directly involved in many physiological mechanisms relevant to hormone release and muscle regeneration. For example, the enhanced musle regeneration effects of L-argninine appear to be dependent on the NO pathway, as supplemental dietary arginine enhances muscle regeneration in normal people, but not those who are deficient in NO.

*HMB*

HMB is a metabolite of the branched-chained amino acid, leucine. Leucine alone can stimulate protein synthesis, inhibit protein breakdown and reduce activation of UPP. You probably remember hearing about HMB a few years ago, but it kind of just faded away.Its importance should not be underestimated. It seems that HMB may e making a comeback. IN the Journal of Trauma, the use of HMB was found to significantly improve nitrogen retention in patients who were seriously injured. This effect may be meiated by the actions of increasing leucine metabolism. Also, HMB has been shown to reduce muscle tissue breakdown by inhibiting UPP. One study looked at the validity of several supplements (creatine, HMB, chromium, DHEA, androstenedione and protein) for increasing lean muscle mass. creatine and HMB were the only supplements with data supporting their use to augment lean mass and strength gains with resistance training.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

hackskii said:


> 1)N-acetyl cysteine (NAC)
> 
> 2)Which I just take high C, and high DHEA.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

DHEA is on hormone that can be converted to others.

A good reason to not supplement it is the fact that in men it can convert to estrogen as a priority over testosterone.

Another thing is this is one hormone that the body does not slow or stop production when it is supplemented.

So, yes as we get older hormones will lower, and if you are older supplementing 25mg of DHEA a day would be a good thing.

I also take melatonin for sleep.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

thestudbeast said:


> *Triggers of UPP*
> 
> Its interesting that diabetics or patients with insulin resistance have increaes muscle protein breakdown and increased msucle atrophy due to defects in insulin signaling.


Gotta love the little gems that pop out and grab your attention.

I have read insulin resistance and low testosterone levels have some connection.

If so this might be another reason for increased muscle breakdown.

Fish oils and exercise are awesome for increasing insulin sensitivity, so is avoiding processed foods and sugars.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Another plus of fish oils in this context is that they have been shown to lower cortisol and raise dhea. I wonder if insulin sensitivity is one of the mechanisms they do it through?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

thestudbeast said:


> Another plus of fish oils in this context is that they have been shown to lower cortisol and raise dhea. I wonder if insulin sensitivity is one of the mechanisms they do it through?


I will give you an example, most if not all type II diabetics either have or had some forum of insulin resistance.

Not good as this would require more insulin to do the job that less insulin should do.

The receptors are like doors, and you have many doors, insulin resistance is like trying to pry a door open using more force (more insulin).

Fish oils do a ton of goodness for the body and the ones you mentioned are just a couple, they aid in lowering cholesterol, cardiovascular health, less inflammation, brain function, depression, fat loss, and much more.

Using fish oils and exercise you can become less insulin resistant and less insulin will be doing the job of more.

This would help to give the beta cells a rest as not to burn them out where one would have to use insulin every day, for life.

Hey, I would much rather my body manufacture it then me timing how much after each meal.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

I beleive coconut oils have a very strong effect on insulin sensitivity also, I'll find the info on this.


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## misterC (Jul 31, 2007)

If you are interested in trying PS,lecithin contains it,and is really cheap.

Probably the best steroids would be d-bol,and parabolan,which may have a long term effect on cortisol receptors(why does the good stuff have to be so toxic?).


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