# How long to see Hyperplasia with HGH



## Aiden8889 (Jun 12, 2017)

Hi, I'm interested in using HGH at some point for the benefits of Hyperplasia, I beleive that having the increased muscle cells would make it easier for me to retain/pack lost mass back on.

If I tapered to 3IU's per day when would I start to see the Hyperplasia (new muscle cells forming) benefits?

I've tried to look everywhere but just cannot find this information at all, thanks.


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## JohnSummers (Jan 3, 2020)

Aiden8889 said:


> Hi, I'm interested in using HGH at some point for the benefits of Hyperplasia, I beleive that having the increased muscle cells would make it easier for me to retain/pack lost mass back on.
> 
> If I tapered to 3IU's per day when would I start to see the Hyperplasia (new muscle cells forming) benefits?
> 
> I've tried to look everywhere but just cannot find this information at all, thanks.


 I think this video might help: The HGH Dosage To Max Out IGF-1 Levels In Humans | Anabolic TV

Normally HGH is used by advanced bodybuilders who have maximised gains from SARMs and steroids. If you are in that category then maybe speak to a bodybuilding coach or something?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Aiden8889 said:


> Hi, I'm interested in using HGH at some point for the benefits of Hyperplasia, I beleive that having the increased muscle cells would make it easier for me to retain/pack lost mass back on.
> 
> If I tapered to 3IU's per day when would I start to see the Hyperplasia (new muscle cells forming) benefits?
> 
> I've tried to look everywhere but just cannot find this information at all, thanks.


 HGH does not cause Hyperplasia, IGF-1 completes that task, do not use GH expecting much muscle gain because you will be disappointed.

There is evidence that HGH does (via other pathways) create new muscle cells but it is not as simple as jabbing HGH and then BANG!! you are more muscular, firstly you will get very little if any from generic GH (Cheap GH).

There is a sticky on this section about a study on a limited number of well-trained athletes using 24iu (8iu M/W/F) of Pharma HGH per week for 6 weeks and gaining approx 2-3kg of muscle and a reduction of 1.5% of body fat.

This study clearly shows 3 things.
1. You do not need to use HGH for months to see a benefit
2. HGH will increase muscle tissue
3. you do not need to inject every day to receive a benefit.

The downside is 24iu of Pharma GH is really expensive and that is a lot of money for a little return.

I would not waste your money unless you are at a level to win national/international competitions.


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## Aiden8889 (Jun 12, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> HGH does not cause Hyperplasia, IGF-1 completes that task, do not use GH expecting much muscle gain because you will be disappointed.


 I knew this but just wanted to keep the question short and to the point...

I actually saw a thread where you posted years ago where you said you used MGF with IGF1, what did you make of that protocol as this is something I have been looking into.

Obviously it sounds better as everyone needs a different HGH doseage plus I'm pretty sure MGF and IGF would be cheaper than HGH, I'm just unsure if the PEG MGF sold online is bunk just like injectable follistatin and things alike.


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

@Pscarb is the lethargy from HGH normal?

I took it for 1 week , at 3iu/day and I was asleep all day long so I stopped.

Wasn't expecting to be that tired , I was using it for injury/fat loss , not muscle gain and was thinking of using it for long time but the tiredness was so bad


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## js77 (Apr 21, 2020)

Baka said:


> @Pscarb is the lethargy from HGH normal?
> 
> I took it for 1 week , at 3iu/day and I was asleep all day long so I stopped.
> 
> Wasn't expecting to be that tired , I was using it for injury/fat loss , not muscle gain and was thinking of using it for long time but the tiredness was so bad


 Ive heard people talk of this 'lethargy' but if anything I feel less lethargic since commencing hgh 3 weeks ago.

Im currently running 10iu of Hyge 5 x per week pwo.


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## js77 (Apr 21, 2020)

Pscarb said:


> HGH does not cause Hyperplasia, IGF-1 completes that task, do not use GH expecting much muscle gain because you will be disappointed.
> 
> There is evidence that HGH does (via other pathways) create new muscle cells but it is not as simple as jabbing HGH and then BANG!! you are more muscular, firstly you will get very little if any from generic GH (Cheap GH).
> 
> ...


 That's seems like a pretty decent amount of tissue to put on in just 6 weeks tbh!!!

Do you have details as to how the dose was taken ie timings/split etc?

Thanks Paul


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes, it is a decent gain, with some although small fat loss.

Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period, injections were Monday/Wednesday/Friday 8iu on each day


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## js77 (Apr 21, 2020)

Pscarb said:


> yes, it is a decent gain, with some although small fat loss.
> 
> Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period, injections were Monday/Wednesday/Friday 8iu on each day


 So am I write in assuming carb and training timings had no influence as to when the jabs were administered?

Mate I know you've previously said that these have no bearing upon the effects of hgh but there is still TONS of recently written info saying.... with carbs.... without carbs... post training... pre training.... with insulin... without blah blah blah ...

Not only is hgh a minefield in terms of finding a good product.... the info as to how to use it is even worse.

My protocol from 10 or so years ago was simply ... slin pre, GH post. I then read a dozen posts saying best protocol is GH pre and slin post..... then another dozen saying the opposite!!! Wtf???


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

js77 said:


> So am I write in assuming carb and training timings had no influence as to when the jabs were administered?
> 
> Mate I know you've previously said that these have no bearing upon the effects of hgh but there is still TONS of recently written info saying.... with carbs.... without carbs... post training... pre training.... with insulin... without blah blah blah ...
> 
> ...


 I know many like to make it complicated mostly to come across as different, it doesn't matter in my opinion mate, I used GH for approx 25yrs, and to be honest, what time of day I injected the GH had zero influence when it came to noticeable results.

I did find using EOD slightly better than ED use but that's just based on my experiences, there is no one written rule when to take GH like I said most do it at certain times to be different.


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## js77 (Apr 21, 2020)

Pscarb said:


> I know many like to make it complicated mostly to come across as different, it doesn't matter in my opinion mate, I used GH for approx 25yrs, and to be honest, what time of day I injected the GH had zero influence when it came to noticeable results.
> 
> I did find using EOD slightly better than ED use but that's just based on my experiences, there is no one written rule when to take GH like I said most do it at certain times to be different.


 Mate I totally agree. Coaches and the like trying to come up with variations of the same thing to seem as though they've come up with the 'magic bean' of info that'll really be the game changer.

When jabbing eod I assume it's double the Ed dose?

Do you think a larger dose, for example using your weekly total over 3 instead of 7 days could stimulate more igf1 production?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

js77 said:


> Mate I totally agree. Coaches and the like trying to come up with variations of the same thing to seem as though they've come up with the 'magic bean' of info that'll really be the game changer.
> 
> When jabbing eod I assume it's double the Ed dose?
> 
> Do you think a larger dose, for example using your weekly total over 3 instead of 7 days could stimulate more igf1 production?


 it won't over the week as the weekly dose will be the same but there is less impact on your own release as you have a day of synthetic GH, with any dose of GH above 1-2iu you will suppress/shut down natural production for approx 24hrs, plus there has been some data to show it is better for insulin sensitivity.

Yes the EOD dose would be double what you would normally use per day.


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## js77 (Apr 21, 2020)

Pscarb said:


> it won't over the week as the weekly dose will be the same but there is less impact on your own release as you have a day of synthetic GH, with any dose of GH above 1-2iu you will suppress/shut down natural production for approx 24hrs, plus there has been some data to show it is better for insulin sensitivity.
> 
> Yes the EOD dose would be double what you would normally use per day.


 Thanks for that Paul. Im going to crack on with the weekly dose over mwf before bed and look to include slin pre wo in the coming few weeks


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## captinsaveapump (Oct 27, 2018)

Each coach has there own view on GH, Patrick Tuor preaches GH use and says it must be included with his top athletes and he has turned out way more competitors this year then any other coach ....on this forum people down play it from there experiences, my advice is research the scientific papers and listen to what the top gurus are saying on it and make your decisions based of that ...btw I have a email from mountain dog which I attached on here on how he advises GH use ...but my point is everyone has there own methods opinions on this stuff


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## js77 (Apr 21, 2020)

captinsaveapump said:


> Each coach has there own view on GH, Patrick Tuor preaches GH use and says it must be included with his top athletes and he has turned out way more competitors this year then any other coach ....on this forum people down play it from there experiences, my advice is research the scientific papers and listen to what the top gurus are saying on it and make your decisions based of that ...btw I have a email from mountain dog which I attached on here on how he advises GH use ...but my point is everyone has there own methods opinions on this stuff
> 
> View attachment 195999


 Do you know Meadows preferred insulin protocol by any chance?

@Bensif thoughts on this one mate especially with regards to Tuor.

We know his thoughts on insulin but would be great to get a insight into his thoughts around hgh. Palumbo for example suggests that insulin really needs to be run alongside hgh.

As I said.... a minefield of info.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

js77 said:


> Do you know Meadows preferred insulin protocol by any chance?
> 
> @Bensif thoughts on this one mate especially with regards to Tuor.
> 
> ...


 Patrick says one thing publicly but does another in practise. This last year he has to be the most talked about coach since he got hold of James.

He gives everyone (or recommends) HGH. He says he doesn't like or use insulin but he had me use it (he did say 'I don't like using this but...'). I know of others using it too under him.

I personally suspect a lot of coaches stick HGH and even insulin in there for the same reasons bodybuilders do... because everyone else is. Yes they will likely find some sort of scientific of anecdotal evidence but I honestly believe the underlying reason is keeping up with the Jones's.

As for the whole hyperplasia thing... I don't think there is actually any clinical evidence of this?

I think every coached I've worked with put growth in my plan. Cant think of any who didn't.


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## Sentient (Jan 13, 2021)

The more I learn about GH the more it seems you have to unlearn the detail, not sweat the small stuff and just apply the "Just get it in you" protocol. It works slowly, subtly and consistency and longevity are more important than time of day, number of doses and splits.

I'm just taking it for general health, anti-aging and a bit of fatloss. I'm also 50 so it will impact me at my tanking natural GH levels more than someone in their 20's.

So I've ended up at: just take it regularly and don't expect too much superficial changes to manifest quickly, and then decide if it's worth the cost for you.


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## captinsaveapump (Oct 27, 2018)

js77 said:


> Do you know Meadows preferred insulin protocol by any chance?
> 
> @Bensif thoughts on this one mate especially with regards to Tuor.
> 
> ...


 This was his response on GH the original question to him was why he doesn't like doing his GH dose split up one in the morning and one in the evening have a look


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## Sentient (Jan 13, 2021)

Pscarb said:


> it won't over the week as the weekly dose will be the same but there is less impact on your own release as you have a day of synthetic GH, with any dose of GH above 1-2iu you will suppress/shut down natural production for approx 24hrs, plus there has been some data to show it is better for insulin sensitivity.
> 
> Yes the EOD dose would be double what you would normally use per day.


 Hi Paul

Back in May you ratified "As far as I am aware there is no evidence to show that any amount of GH above a certain dose is wasted, that used to be said about Protein and that was /is bollocks....." and whilst "we're " reaching the conclusion that EOD has benefits for some WRT insulin sensitivity and thus less risk/side for long term use, there is still the question if 8ius in one shot is as good, better or much less efficacious than split twice a day. I'm not sue where the "4ius one shot, above 2 two shots" bro boundary came from but where do you side at the moment?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

captinsaveapump said:


> Each coach has there own view on GH, Patrick Tuor preaches GH use and says it must be included with his top athletes and he has turned out way more competitors this year then any other coach ....on this forum people down play it from there experiences, my advice is research the scientific papers and listen to what the top gurus are saying on it and make your decisions based of that ...btw I have a email from mountain dog which I attached on here on how he advises GH use ...but my point is everyone has there own methods opinions on this stuff


 I don't think that people play it down per se

Rather get expectations in check.

Gh is NOT going to turn you into a mass monster.

Just because elite level genetic athletes with unwavering focus and dedication use it and their coaches advise it, it doesn't mean it's neccesary for most people to reach their near maximal achievable levels of muscle mass.

These top end pros have largely exhausted their growth in terms of sex hormones which you cannot endlessly titrate for continued growth, not before sides become a limiting factor either by direct effect or knock on effect such as appetite or sleep.

This is where these peptides shine, to add that icing, a boost beyond an already heavily developed physique.

Is it going to help someone achieve more muscle per cycle faster by including gh and insulin?

Yes, but if you are still able to gain just fine on aas which will still deliver the lions share of muscle growth then why would you be so concerned with such a small return on investment that will further negatively impact your health and longevity?

What pros are doing shouldn't be of too great a concern for the recreational lifter or novice competitor.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Sentient said:


> Hi Paul
> 
> Back in May you ratified "As far as I am aware there is no evidence to show that any amount of GH above a certain dose is wasted, that used to be said about Protein and that was /is bollocks....." and whilst "we're " reaching the conclusion that EOD has benefits for some WRT insulin sensitivity and thus less risk/side for long term use, there is still the question if 8ius in one shot is as good, better or much less efficacious than split twice a day. I'm not sue where the "4ius one shot, above 2 two shots" bro boundary came from but where do you side at the moment?
> 
> ...


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## Sentient (Jan 13, 2021)

Thanks, "I concur"


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