# Advice wanted on a routine that will get me big



## cub

I don't think I'm a beginner anymore so I didn't think it would be appropriate to put this in the "Getting Started" section but I'm not an advanced bodybuilder either. There isn't an inbetween section so I'm just going to put it here ("This one is not just for the big boys. Check out the larger routines to get advice and information for your routines.") Maybe a mod can move it if they think of a more appropriate section 

Ok here's my problem, any advice and criticism from everyone welcome:

I've been following the Stronglifts routine consistently since April and I'm kinda happy with the strength gains I've made on my squat (80kg 3x5 to 165kg for 4x5 before I deloaded because I didn't achieve 5x5), deadlift (110kg to 190kg 1x5), and my rows (50kg to 107.5kg 5x5). However my chest and arms are lacking: my bench press has gone up from 55kg to 90kg (5x5) and my overhead press has gone up from 40kg to 67.5kg (5x5). My legs have grown quickly and they're pretty big now but my arms and chest have hardly grown in 5 and a half months.

The pic on the left is from April, the pic on the right is from October. You can see for yourself there's been hardly any progress.

What I want is to make my arms/chest/shoulders much bigger than they are and I don't think I can do this through Stronglifts. What would you advise me to do to make them bigger i.e. what exercises should I be doing and do you think I should change my routine to something else? My aim is to be big and strong as well.


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## Tassotti

Put up a pic of your legs


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## cub

Again! I'm surprised you're not sick of the sight of them on my journal mate :lol:

July 2011:



September 2012:


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## 36-26

If you are done with stronglifts then I think Frankie NY mass building program is a good one to move on to. Should see strength and size gains on it. Here is a link http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Frankie-NY39s-Mass-Building-Program-m8817.aspx


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## Dezw

Eating more of the right foods will get you big, and I would switch to the 8-12 rep range as this is where most size is gained.

5x5 excellent for strength but not size so much.

Also look to add in drop sets/super sets and just make sure you work your ass off, that along with a good eating plan will sort you.


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## onthebuild

Huge improvement on the legs mate.


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## Tassotti

put the pic, not the link


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## cub

Can you see them now? First time I attached them they wouldn't show but I think I've fixed it now?


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## Tassotti

yep. Awesome legs mate. You're like Johnny Bravo in reverse


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## cub

Haha yep! I must have some fcked up genetics! Freak of nature :laugh:


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## Brook877

Massive improvement on legs!

Long sleeved tops and little shorts


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## Matt 1

cub said:


> Again! I'm surprised you're not sick of the sight of them on my journal mate :lol:
> 
> July 2011:
> 
> View attachment 96773
> 
> 
> September 2012:
> 
> View attachment 96774


decent legs fella, no homosexual


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## cub

36-26 said:


> If you are done with stronglifts then I think Frankie NY mass building program is a good one to move on to. Should see strength and size gains on it. Here is a link http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Frankie-NY39s-Mass-Building-Program-m8817.aspx


Thanks. I'm not sure about that routine, it's still in the low rep range...

- - - Updated - - -



Matt 1 said:


> decent legs fella, no homosexual


Cheers! Now if only I could have your upper body to match!


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## TELBOR

Jebus wept Cub! Legs look pretty freaky.

Almost photshop freaky pmsl

Good work mate.


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## Mingster

I've posted this routine up a few times before but it is the one that I've always returned to over the years for adding mass...

Deads 5x6-8. Chins 3x10-12. Barbell Curls 2x12-15.

Bench 5x6-8. Dips 3x10-12. Skulls 2x12-15.

Squats 5x6-8. SLDL 3x10-12. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


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## Tassotti

Now this is against everything I believe in, but I reckon you should just train chest and biceps for 3 months solid


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## 36-26

cub said:


> Thanks. I'm not sure about that routine, it's still in the low rep range..


No prob mate its just you said you wanted size and strength and IMO that is one of the best routines for that. I personally made great gains in size on that routine. For nattys it is great. If it's size you are after why not try a run of the mill bodybuilding program, 3-4 day split 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps per exercise.


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## cub

R0BR0ID said:


> Jebus wept Cub! Legs look pretty freaky.
> 
> Almost photshop freaky pmsl
> 
> Good work mate.


Thanks Rob mate. Haven't spoken to you in ages. Hope you're well.

Yeah I showed that pic to a friend and she was like "Erm, is that normal for them to look like that" haha


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## 36-26

Mingster said:


> I've posted this routine up a few times before but it is the one that I've always returned to over the years for adding mass...
> 
> Deads 5x6-8. Chins 3x10-12. Barbell Curls 2x12-15.
> 
> Bench 5x6-8. Dips 3x10-12. Skulls 2x12-15.
> 
> Squats 5x6-8. SLDL 3x10-12. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


Great no bull$hit routine...


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## a.notherguy

the 5-3-1 boring but big routine has a good rep mate


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## cub

Tassotti said:


> Now this is against everything I believe in, but I reckon you should just train chest and biceps for 3 months solid


Yeah I'm pretty happy with my legs now, would be good to focus on my upper body.


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## cub

Mingster said:


> I've posted this routine up a few times before but it is the one that I've always returned to over the years for adding mass...
> 
> Deads 5x6-8. Chins 3x10-12. Barbell Curls 2x12-15.
> 
> Bench 5x6-8. Dips 3x10-12. Skulls 2x12-15.
> 
> Squats 5x6-8. SLDL 3x10-12. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


Cheers Mingster. This looks like the kind of higher rep routine for hypertrophy that I'm after whilst retaining the main compound exercises like deadlifts.

However I can't do even one chin up or dips, can you recommend a substitute for them or are they essential?


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## Mingster

cub said:


> Cheers Mingster. This looks like the kind of higher rep routine for hypertrophy that I'm after whilst retaining the main compound exercises like deadlifts.
> 
> However I can't do even one chin up or dips, can you recommend a substitute for them or are they essential?


They aren't essential but are probably the best exercises for the job.

You could do lat pulldowns instead of chins, and flyes instead of dips. You would need to work them hard, however, to get the results you would from the original exercises. If you're going to be lifting long term I would seriously work at both chins and dips. You'll be surprised how quickly you will become proficient in them if you put in the effort. Dips, especially are a great chest builder, and that is where you seek improvement. Personally I do dips instead of bench for my chest and they are my only direct tricep exercise to boot. They are the best exercise bar the squat imo...


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## Tassotti

Cub

Start off with negatives on dips and chins and build them up


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## The L Man

Great progress on the legs mate (no ****). I'm following strong lifts too...


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## faultline

cub said:


> However I can't do even one chin up or dips, can you recommend a substitute for them or are they essential?


Dude there's no way you can't do dips or chins with the weights you are lifting, I can only bench around 60kg 5x5 and today I done 3 sets of dips (10,8,6).

I've only just started doing them and IMO they are great, I will always do them from now on.

I find chins a bit harder but if your pulling a deadlift of 190kg then pulling your body weight which is probably half that? Is not gonna be much of a problem


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## cub

So the consensus seems to be that Mingster's routine will get me the muscle growth I am after. I'll start it the next time I go the gym (Wednesday). I can't wait to make some serious GAINS haha


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## Mingster

cub said:


> So the consensus seems to be that Mingster's routine will get me the muscle growth I am after. I'll start it the next time I go the gym (Wednesday). I can't wait to make some serious GAINS haha


Good choice lol.

If you have any questions or thoughts about it drop me a line mate


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## Monkey skeleton

That really is some amazing progress mate, you should be well pleased with yourself! I've seen people use power bands to help with chins and dips if they struggle to get many rep's, might be worth a go.

This may be a dumb question but are you a natty? I only ask, as if you are that's both incredible progress and a huge motivation to me!

Cheers


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## cub

Monkey skeleton said:


> That really is some amazing progress mate, you should be well pleased with yourself! I've seen people use power bands to help with chins and dips if they struggle to get many rep's, might be worth a go.
> 
> This may be a dumb question but are you a natty? I only ask, as if you are that's both incredible progress and a huge motivation to me!
> 
> Cheers


Haha yep natty! I've never even had a protein shake or a supplement in my life, just hammered chicken and eggs.


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## kingdale

cub said:


> So the consensus seems to be that Mingster's routine will get me the muscle growth I am after. I'll start it the next time I go the gym (Wednesday). I can't wait to make some serious GAINS haha


Yeah i reckon it will put you some size on. Good gains on the legs.


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## anabolik

Awesome progress on the legs mate can hardly believe there's just a years difference between those pics. You sure your mates haven't been spiking your drinks with dbol? lol


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## Porkchop

Cub, did you measure your arms and chest? Coz it looks to me from your pics that there has been some progress. Measurements don't lie lol (unless you lie to yourself!).


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## cub

anabolik said:


> Awesome progress on the legs mate can hardly believe there's just a years difference between those pics. You sure your mates haven't been spiking your drinks with dbol? lol


Cheers big man! You have the huge upper body I aspire to!

Haha it's definitely genetic: my dad had enormous legs too and he worked out a lot. Shame I didn't inherit his huge chest and arms though, I would prefer them to be freakishly big rather than my legs!


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## cub

Porkchop said:


> Cub, did you measure your arms and chest? Coz it looks to me from your pics that there has been some progress. Measurements don't lie lol (unless you lie to yourself!).


I didn't measure them when I started. Bit silly looking back that I didn't, it would of been easier to track my progress rather than just trying to guess from looking in the mirror. I just feel that after over 5 months of consistent training 3 times a week I should really have made far better progress than I have. I'm not knocking Stronglifts but it's also true that some routines work more for some people than others and I guess I'm one of those people where Stronglifts doesn't work...


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## xpower

Compounds

Isolation

All heavy as ya can & till ya can'y any more.

The secret to growth is hard work/sleep/food


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## anabolik

cub said:


> Cheers big man! You have the huge upper body I aspire to!
> 
> Haha it's definitely genetic: my dad had enormous legs too and he worked out a lot. Shame I didn't inherit his huge chest and arms though, I would prefer them to be freakishly big rather than my legs!


lol I'm nowhere near big yet but thanks appreciate the compliment!

Concentrate on chins and dips and your arms will grow mate I'm sure of it.


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## Monkey skeleton

cub said:


> I didn't measure them when I started. Bit silly looking back that I didn't, it would of been easier to track my progress rather than just trying to guess from looking in the mirror. I just feel that after over 5 months of consistent training 3 times a week I should really have made far better progress than I have. I'm not knocking Stronglifts but it's also true that some routines work more for some people than others and I guess I'm one of those people where Stronglifts doesn't work...


If you want, I'll swap the progress I've made ove the last 4 years for your last 5 months worth! And I'll even mow your lawn for a month! Lol

I think that's just the way Stronglifts is, if you split the sets you do in a month in to push, pull, legs, there's a he'll of a lot of emphasis on legs. No bad thing though!


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## cub

Haha it's a deal :lol:


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## Porkchop

Sorry if its a bit off topic OP, but the guys that are saying do dips - do you mean the normal way with legs crossed behind you, or with legs in front of you, that weird way i noticed in a thread a while back?

Just interested how most people dip. I'm looking to incorporate dips into my routine and whilst any way of doing it will no doubt bring results, i wondered if one way is significantly better than the other?


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## Guest

Porkchop said:


> Sorry if its a bit off topic OP, but the guys that are saying do dips - do you mean the normal way with legs crossed behind you, or with legs in front of you, that weird way i noticed in a thread a while back?
> 
> Just interested how most people dip. I'm looking to incorporate dips into my routine and whilst any way of doing it will no doubt bring results, i wondered if one way is significantly better than the other?


I put a slight lean forward on to hit chest. And then just straight to hit tri's. Sorry if it dosen't make sence aha


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## Strongr

Give this a shot, read up on the wendler 5/3/1 program then o the 3 month challenge

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_boring_but_big_3month_challenge

Food intake is important for mass


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## Porkchop

Jd123 said:


> I put a slight lean forward on to hit chest. And then just straight to hit tri's. Sorry if it dosen't make sence aha


No that makes perfect sense, cheers.Think I'll mix it up too.


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## cub

strongr said:


> Give this a shot, read up on the wendler 5/3/1 program then o the 3 month challenge
> 
> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_boring_but_big_3month_challenge
> 
> Food intake is important for mass


The problem with that routine is that it includes overhead press and I hate that exercise, I'm always failing on it. The other routine includes arm work but without the overhead press, which is a big plus in my book.


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## Mingster

Porkchop said:


> Sorry if its a bit off topic OP, but the guys that are saying do dips - do you mean the normal way with legs crossed behind you, or with legs in front of you, that weird way i noticed in a thread a while back?
> 
> Just interested how most people dip. I'm looking to incorporate dips into my routine and whilst any way of doing it will no doubt bring results, i wondered if one way is significantly better than the other?


This is the video I always put up to demonstrate the type of dips that will give you the best chest development...


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## Strongr

cub said:


> The problem with that routine is that it includes overhead press and I hate that exercise, I'm always failing on it. The other routine includes arm work but without the overhead press, which is a big plus in my book.


Then tats surely a reason todo the routine, improve in your overhead press

Just my opinion


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## MattGriff

Dezw said:


> 5x5 excellent for strength but not size so much.


I disagree with this and it is often said. Rep ranges are in a way irrelevant and without getting to much into the science side of it provided the appropriate motor units are trained rep ranges from 3 upwards can be very effective for size.


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## jake87

tbf i found the same thing with 5x5 routines, upperbody stayed the same pretty much and legs blew up. maybe stick to 5x5 on squats 3x a week and incorporate a bb routine for your upper body along side it


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## retro-mental

Sorry about the sh1t video but this is good for your pull ups / chins to start off and i could not dip at all so i would give myself a little foot push off the ground and concentrate on negatives. You will see a difference in pull ups and dips in no time if you stick with them

Dips are the upper body squats which says it all !


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## MRSTRONG

cub said:


> The problem with that routine is that it includes overhead press and I hate that exercise, I'm always failing on it. The other routine includes arm work but without the overhead press, which is a big plus in my book.


ohp and dips will build a big upper body .


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## cub

More than any other exercise, the overhead press is the one where I had the most problems. It was part of the Stronglifts routine and there were quite a few instances when I couldn't even do one set of five, I couldn't even get it over my head for one rep. I'm going to see how I get on doing arm exercises without the overhead press but if I don't make progress doing that then I'll incorporate overhead press into my workout. At the moment I'll see how I get on without it.


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## Porkchop

Mingster said:


> This is the video I always put up to demonstrate the type of dips that will give you the best chest development...


Ah yes, thats the one. thanks! Will be putting them in my routine.


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## Dezw

MattGriff said:


> I disagree with this and it is often said. Rep ranges are in a way irrelevant and without getting to much into the science side of it provided the appropriate motor units are trained rep ranges from 3 upwards can be very effective for size.


I'll completely disagree with you.

Every sprinter/strength athlete I know stick sto under 5 reps for strength and not extra size/weight.

Same thing with the boxers I know, extra reps tends to build more bulk and slow them down.

And i've found the same things in my own training over the years, 8-12 reps I get bigger but I don't like being bulky so I work in the 3-5 range and it gets me strong but stay light.


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## MRSTRONG

Dezw said:


> I'll completely disagree with you.
> 
> Every sprinter/strength athlete I know stick sto under 5 reps for strength and not extra size/weight.
> 
> Same thing with the boxers I know, extra reps tends to build more bulk and slow them down.
> 
> And i've found the same things in my own training over the years, 8-12 reps I get bigger but I don't like being bulky so I work in the 3-5 range and it gets me strong but stay light.


ive gained 8 stone by doing 5x5 .

overload the body feed it rest it and it grows .


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## Fatstuff

@Mingster - did u find that routine was ok even with the fact there is no real shoulder movement?


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## MattGriff

Dezw said:


> I'll completely disagree with you.
> 
> Every sprinter/strength athlete I know stick sto under 5 reps for strength and not extra size/weight.
> 
> Same thing with the boxers I know, extra reps tends to build more bulk and slow them down.
> 
> And i've found the same things in my own training over the years, 8-12 reps I get bigger but I don't like being bulky so I work in the 3-5 range and it gets me strong but stay light.


I think you have misunderstood my post, I reffered to the motor units.

Now I train using 2-5 rep ranges in general and just shy of 21 stone, this is as anecdotal as your evidence and contradicts it.

So, to look at the science side using 100kg as someone's 1rm. 5 x 5 at 85% equates to 25 reps performed at 85kgs, likewise a standard 3 sets pyramid scheme using 70/75/80 for 12/10/8 reps equates to 30 reps at a mean average of 74%

25 reps at 85% vs 30 reps at 74% - not really that difficult to understand why a proper 5 x 5 template gives excellent size gains as well.

Simply put provided there is sufficient kcals to grow either rep range will cause growth.


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## Mingster

Fatstuff said:


> @Mingster - did u find that routine was ok even with the fact there is no real shoulder movement?


IMO the chest exercises will give most people all the shoulder size they will ever need.

Having said that, there is no direct targeting of the rear delts, and at some point - and I have done this myself - a focus on this muscle will have to be introduced in the interest of balance and injury prevention. It's not, however, something that I would consider vital for quite some time tbh...


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## 36-26

Dezw said:


> I'll completely disagree with you.
> 
> Every sprinter/strength athlete I know stick sto under 5 reps for strength and not extra size/weight.
> 
> Same thing with the boxers I know, extra reps tends to build more bulk and slow them down.
> 
> And i've found the same things in my own training over the years, 8-12 reps I get bigger but I don't like being bulky so I work in the 3-5 range and it gets me strong but stay light.


Surely that's because sprinters, strength athletes and boxers are not eating to gain weight due to weight categories etc. I gained muscle just fine on 5x5. If you are staying light on 5x5 it is because you are not eating enough. Calories are what dictate weight gain or loss not your training


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## 36-26

Mingster said:


> IMO the chest exercises will give most people all the shoulder size they will ever need.
> 
> Having said that, there is no direct targeting of the rear delts, and at some point - and I have done this myself - a focus on this muscle will have to be introduced in the interest of balance and injury prevention. It's not, however, something that I would consider vital for quite some time tbh...


You could always throw in 3 sets of bent over laterals at the end of the pull day anyway


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## Mingster

36-26 said:


> You could always throw in 3 sets of bent over laterals at the end of the pull day anyway


You certainly could. However...

The reasoning behind this sort of programme is determined by effort really. Most days you are only doing 11 or 12 sets, around 5 of which are warms ups. This means you should have a large quantity of energy/intensity/effort - call it what you will - to pour everything into the remaining 6/7 sets. Without this investment you won't get the results you want from the programme.

The low amount of working, or effort, sets enables this huge investment of energy. IMO it is virtually impossible to put sufficient effort into more sets than this. Any additional sets will eat into the amount of effort available. A few light sets tagged on the end of a session may not seem like much but, subconsciously perhaps, it is inevitable that the trainer will hold back a little from the first 3 exercises to enable the completion of these extra sets. For this reason if I was training someone in the gym with such a programme I would advise that the rear delt work would replace either the Skulls or the Barbell Curls rather than be added to the workout.

You will always get a limited amount of rear delt stimulation from the Pull day exercises anyway.


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## Ackee&amp;Saltfish

Just when i thought i got a decent routine to stick at and keep consistent i click on this thread :no:


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## faultline

Mingster said:


> I've posted this routine up a few times before but it is the one that I've always returned to over the years for adding mass...
> 
> Deads 5x6-8. Chins 3x10-12. Barbell Curls 2x12-15.
> 
> Bench 5x6-8. Dips 3x10-12. Skulls 2x12-15.
> 
> Squats 5x6-8. SLDL 3x10-12. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


Would this routine change at all if you were/weren't on AAS?


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## Mingster

faultline said:


> Would this routine change at all if you were/weren't on AAS?


No. Not really. It's what I've always used regardless of aas use. I still use a similar system these days but with slightly less volume


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## faultline

For instance I've just started this routine, I'm natty

Mon: chest n tris

BB incline 5x5

DB decline 3x8

Flat flyes 3x10

Dips 3xfailure

Skulls 3x8

Wed: back n bi's

Deadlift 3x5

Chins 3xfailure

BB rows 3x10

BB curls 3x10

Fri: legs n shoulders

Squats 4 sets

Calf raises 2x20

Bb OH press 4x6

Db Lat raises 3x10

Db Shrugs 3x10

Too much?


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## faultline

Anyone?


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## Mingster

faultline said:


> Anyone?


It looks ok.

I would do 5 sets of deads and squats to ensure you warm up sufficiently. For starters you should manage these workouts well. I think that as your strength increases you may well have to cut a set here and there from workouts 1 and 3. You can have intensity and you can have volume, but as one increases the other must reduce. As your bench increases the need for a second pressing exercise may diminish. Likewise as you deads increase there may well be less need for the shrugs


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## faultline

So with the squats and deads, would you pyramid up to your heaviest 5 rep weight?

Say like 12 x 40,10 x 60,8 x 75,6 x 90,5 x 100


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## Mingster

faultline said:


> So with the squats and deads, would you pyramid up to your heaviest 5 rep weight?
> 
> Say like 12 x 40,10 x 60,8 x 75,6 x 90,5 x 100


Yes, mate. As your top end lift goes up I would gradually adjust the weights on sets 3,4 and 5 whilst leaving sets 1 and 2 as pure warm up sets.


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## simonthepieman

The op can 1rm bench over 100kg and row over 100kg for reps and not dips or do a pull up.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds fishy.

A great mass builder is

Deads 5x5

Squats 2x10

Bench 5x5

Wide grip Chins 5x5

OHP 2x10

Squats 5x5

DeAds 2x10

Row 5x5

Incline 3x10

Palms in chins 3x10

Throw in some ocassional iso stuff where you want to work weak points (not to failure). Bobs your uncle


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## cub

simonthepieman said:


> The op can 1rm bench over 100kg and row over 100kg for reps and not dips or do a pull up.
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds fishy.


I haven't tried, I'm just guessing that I can't.


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## simonthepieman

Your lifts are similar to mine and I can do 20 chins and probably 40 dips.

I can chin more than the average guy, but for you not to be able to do 1 is ludicrous


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## cub

The way it's set up in my gym is that there's a bar hanging from the ceiling with a wooden box beneath it to stand on. It's in the middle of the gym in full view of everyone and I'd feel like such an idiot if I tried to go and do a chin up and only manage to get up a little way.


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## kingdale

cub said:


> The way it's set up in my gym is that there's a bar hanging from the ceiling with a wooden box beneath it to stand on. It's in the middle of the gym in full view of everyone and I'd feel like such an idiot if I tried to go and do a chin up and only manage to get up a little way.


you will be able to do a few. If you really are not confident get a pull up bar to put up in your door.


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## simonthepieman

Pull ups are best muscle builder for back width IME. 50-100 reps 2x a week and you will have wings


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## MRSTRONG

@cub i thought you were powerlifting not a shirtlifting bodybuilder ?


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## cub

ewen said:


> @cub i thought you were powerlifting not a shirtlifting bodybuilder ?


I did a powerlifting routine and I've ended up with big legs and little upper body! I look out of proportion, I don't like it...

I want to be big and strong as well. There's a man in my gym who's massive and he has a deadlift of 250kg, I wouldn't mind looking like him!


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## Mingster

cub said:


> The way it's set up in my gym is that there's a bar hanging from the ceiling with a wooden box beneath it to stand on. It's in the middle of the gym in full view of everyone and I'd feel like such an idiot if I tried to go and do a chin up and only manage to get up a little way.


Initially, you may well look stupid, at least in your own eyes. The first few sessions you'll probably struggle to do 4/5 reps with dodgy form. Stick with it and in a month you will be doing 7/8 and after 2 months 10-15 reps. If your fearof looking 'stupid' is enough to prevent you from doing exercises that will achieve your goals then you need to look at your motivation lol :nono:


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## MRSTRONG

cub said:


> I did a powerlifting routine and I've ended up with big legs and little upper body! I look out of proportion, I don't like it...
> 
> I want to be big and strong as well. There's a man in my gym who's massive and he has a deadlift of 250kg, I wouldn't mind looking like him!


so follow a simple ppl that ming suggests he looks better than 90% of the bodybuilders you see and has lifted some crazy numbers .


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## Mingster

ewen said:


> so follow a simple ppl that ming suggests he looks better than 90% of the bodybuilders you see and has lifted some crazy numbers .


You handsome, big flatterer you:wub:


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## MRSTRONG

Mingster said:


> You handsome, big flatterer you:wub:


 :blush:


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## Guest

You aren't alone with the chin up issue. I am in the same boat, I struggle like hell with them. But I guess I am lucky in the respect that we have a machine that you can counterbalance yourself, so you can take a bit of the strain off. Works for dips, chins, wide grip chins, so you can taper down the weight of the counterbalance over time as you grow stronger.


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## cub

ewen said:


> so follow a simple ppl that ming suggests he looks better than 90% of the bodybuilders you see and has lifted some crazy numbers .


Thanks big man.

Yeah I started Mingster's routine yesterday, if I end up looking half as big as him I'd be pleased!


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## Mingster

cub said:


> Thanks big man.
> 
> Yeah I started Mingster's routine yesterday, if I end up looking half as big as him I'd be pleased!


Grit your teeth with the chins and dips mate, forget about anyone else in the gym, and get them done. It's a bit like learning to drive. You feel like an idiot bouncing along in the car to start with, but you soon get the hang of it. These are the exercises which will give you the upper body you are looking for. Yes, it will be difficult to start with, but nothing worth having come without a price:thumbup1:


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## MRSTRONG

cub said:


> Thanks big man.
> 
> Yeah I started Mingster's routine yesterday, if I end up looking half as big as him I'd be pleased!


dont get disheartened with chins mate and fcuk anyone that stares at you trying to do them i used to be one of the smallest in my gym and after putting something in the others didnt (hardwork) im now the biggest in my gym .

for ohp id do push press its without doubt the best exercise for forcing upper body growth .

keep at it mate .


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## Fatstuff

Mate, I find chins a struggle but I bang a few out and then step up and bang s bunch of negatives out!

As for dips lol, I'm waiting for a quiet moment in the gym to try them in case my dodgy shoulder fcuks me up or I can't do them lol


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## Fatstuff

Keep at it m8


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## Davey666

I did chin ups first time. Just body weight (which is a lot) I was supposed to do 5 sets of 10. I got out 4 sets of 5 and 1 set of 4... I couldnt give a fcuk if I look a stupid. I was chuffed


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## cub

Thanks men! All this encouragement is giving me huge motivation


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## scouse2010

Dezw said:


> Eating more of the right foods will get you big, and I would switch to the 8-12 rep range as this is where most size is gained.
> 
> 5x5 excellent for strength but not size so much.
> 
> Also look to add in drop sets/super sets and just make sure you work your ass off, that along with a good eating plan will sort you.


how many sets ?

I was thinking of trying the method where you do 4 sets for a total of 30 reps.So you jsut aim to get 30 reps in them 4 sets,if you get them easily up the weight if you dont keep on trying.

workout 3x a week alternating 2 workouts

WORKOUT 1

pullups

row from the floor

Deads 2 sets for a total of 20 reps

chinups

WORKOUT 2

Bench Press

Close Grip

Military Press

Squat 2 sets for a total of 20 reps


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## Robbie789

Probably a bit early to ask, but have you noticed any more size on you in the late couple weeks?

On week 9 of stronglifts atm and I'm hoping that the extra strength I gain will help to me add more mass when I go back to a normal split, like you my legs have gotten bigger, but upper body is still the same.

If you look at Medhi (Stronglifts 5x5 guy) he's well out of proportion, chest and legs are big, but his arms are tiny! I personally think stronglifts should incorporate a couple sets of pull ups / dips for the first 8 weeks or so while the weight is still light.


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## cub

robdobbie said:


> Probably a bit early to ask, but have you noticed any more size on you in the late couple weeks?
> 
> On week 9 of stronglifts atm and I'm hoping that the extra strength I gain will help to me add more mass when I go back to a normal split, like you my legs have gotten bigger, but upper body is still the same.
> 
> If you look at Medhi (Stronglifts 5x5 guy) he's well out of proportion, chest and legs are big, but his arms are tiny! I personally think stronglifts should incorporate a couple sets of pull ups / dips for the first 8 weeks or so while the weight is still light.


No but then it's way too early for noticeable gains. I did achieve 180kg on my squat for three reps on Monday though, so pretty pleased about that


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## cub

@Mingster, I wanted to ask you: could I switch the sessions around because I don't think my legs have recovered yet since Monday's squatting so I am putting off deadlifting til tomorrow. So could I have the session that includes squats on a Monday and the session that includes deadlifts on a Friday instead?


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## Mingster

cub said:


> @Mingster, I wanted to ask you: could I switch the sessions around because I don't think my legs have recovered yet since Monday's squatting so I am putting off deadlifting til tomorrow. So could I have the session that includes squats on a Monday and the session that includes deadlifts on a Friday instead?


Of course, mate. I always stick my Push session between Legs and Pull myself.

Nice squatting by the way


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## cub

Cheers mate


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## BigFelch

Mingster said:


> I've posted this routine up a few times before but it is the one that I've always returned to over the years for adding mass...
> 
> Deads 5x6-8. Chins 3x10-12. Barbell Curls 2x12-15.
> 
> Bench 5x6-8. Dips 3x10-12. Skulls 2x12-15.
> 
> Squats 5x6-8. SLDL 3x10-12. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


Great Routine Mingster!

i do something similar myself but instead of ramping up to my top weight I do a couple of warm sets and the do 4 x 6-8 and only increase the weight when I can do 4 sets of 8 at that weight!

Would that suffice or is better to ramp up?


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## Mingster

BigFelch said:


> Great Routine Mingster!
> 
> i do something similar myself but instead of ramping up to my top weight I do a couple of warm sets and the do 4 x 6-8 and only increase the weight when I can do 4 sets of 8 at that weight!
> 
> Would that suffice or is better to ramp up?


Whatever works for you mate:thumbup1:

Personally I would struggle mentally faced with 4 sets of the same weight but different strokes for different folks. As long as you are getting results. I would suggest, though, that if you hit a sticking point with your system give the ramping method a go and you'll probably get another 2/3 weeks of progression from this.


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## Muckshifter

Mingster said:


> I've posted this routine up a few times before but it is the one that I've always returned to over the years for adding mass...
> 
> Deads 5x6-8. Chins 3x10-12. Barbell Curls 2x12-15.
> 
> Bench 5x6-8. Dips 3x10-12. Skulls 2x12-15.
> 
> Squats 5x6-8. SLDL 3x10-12. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


at what percentage of your max would you do this routine and would it be run in cycles


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## Mingster

Muckshifter said:


> at what percentage of your max would you do this routine and would it be run in cycles


I've run it slightly differently from time to time. Generally though I would increase weight with successive sets of the first exercise up to around 80% for 8 on the last set or two. A cycle could consist of hitting 90% for 4 on the first week in the final set and trying to add a rep a week, or to hit 8 reps for more sets, whatever suited training needs at the time. I tend to cycle in 6 week rotations with a deload or rest week to follow. Usually a deload with speed work.

The second and third exercises would be more inclined towards fully working the muscles. I would still aim for progression with these exercises, but my main progressive focus would be on the primary exercise.


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## Muckshifter

Mingster said:


> I've run it slightly differently from time to time. Generally though I would increase weight with successive sets of the first exercise up to around 80% for 8 on the last set or two. A cycle could consist of hitting 90% for 4 on the first week in the final set and trying to add a rep a week, or to hit 8 reps for more sets, whatever suited training needs at the time. I tend to cycle in 6 week rotations with a deload or rest week to follow. Usually a deload with speed work.
> 
> The second and third exercises would be more inclined towards fully working the muscles. I would still aim for progression with these exercises, but my main progressive focus would be on the primary exercise.


Thanks mate as ever some great info again, regarding the dips and pull ups if you can't hit the required reps to you call it a day and try and better the next time or do some negatives or lat pulldowns and some tricep pushdowns for dips.


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## Mingster

Muckshifter said:


> Thanks mate as ever some great info again, regarding the dips and pull ups if you can't hit the required reps to you call it a day and try and better the next time or do some negatives or lat pulldowns and some tricep pushdowns for dips.


I would call it a day and try and add a rep next time round. There's a place for forced reps and negatives but not with this programme unless you've completely stalled.

You could use the alternative exercises as long as you have exhausted all attempts to improve with the original ones or have an injury that affects you when doing them, and as long as it's not an excuse for an easier option.


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## Muckshifter

Mingster said:


> I would call it a day and try and add a rep next time round. There's a place for forced reps and negatives but not with this programme unless you've completely stalled.
> 
> You could use the alternative exercises as long as you have exhausted all attempts to improve with the original ones or have an injury that affects you when doing them, and as long as it's not an excuse for an easier option.


I am back training after almost a year off and I am at my heaviest weight of 17st was bench tonight strength is down a bit in the main lift to be expected a suppose but I couldn't even do one of those chest dips, do you reckon keep plugging away and maybe throw in some CGBP and push downs to get some strength back u? I am cutting so it should get easier.


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## Mingster

Muckshifter said:


> I am back training after almost a year off and I am at my heaviest weight of 17st was bench tonight strength is down a bit in the main lift to be expected a suppose but I couldn't even do one of those chest dips, do you reckon keep plugging away and maybe throw in some CGBP and push downs to get some strength back u? I am cutting so it should get easier.


If you are coming back from time off and struggle to get one or two reps I would suggest substituting lat pulldowns for chins and maybe DB overhead presses for dips. Once you've built some strength back up then return to try the original exercises.


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