# Squat - Glute activation issues



## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

I've been working on my squat as hard as I can to get my form better and whilst I'm making progress, I simply cannot engage my glutes.

I'm squeezing, pushing forwards, inwards, doing everything I can think of, but nothing.

Can't feel anything the next day, no evidence they've done anything.

Here's a video.






I'd welcome any technique advice on how to correct this as it's really ****ing me off - there's no way 67.5kg should even remotely feel heavy, yet as my hip flexors are doing it all, it feels very heavy indeed.

What do I do to make my glutes activate?


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

well first of all how can you push your ass through if you dont stand up straight after each rep


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## seandog69 (Mar 8, 2013)

str4nger said:


> well first of all how can you push your ass through if you dont stand up straight after each rep


yeah this, look like youre leaning too far forward, learn to sit back more


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

looking at the vid, to me it looks like you are leaning forward to much.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

I'll take a look, but for the low bar position, I have to do this to balance the bar and stop it rolling down my back. I've tried standing up straighter and the bar falls down my back and I have to push it back up with my hands which seems awkward and uncomfortable.

How do I correct this?

What am I doing wrong regarding balance and the bar 'falling'?

Also, are we talking about in the hole, at the top or all the way through?


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## seandog69 (Mar 8, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> I'll take a look, but for the low bar position, I have to do this to balance the bar and stop it rolling down my back. I've tried standing up straighter and the bar falls down my back and I have to push it back up with my hands which seems awkward and uncomfortable.
> 
> How do I correct this?
> 
> ...


bar looks a bit high to be true low bar imo, but could just be the angle

ditch low bar and go high, do some box squats, this will help you learning to sit back and you look to be leaning too far forward through the entire motion, standing and in the hole


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

The Sweeney said:


> I'll take a look, but for the low bar position, I have to do this to balance the bar and stop it rolling down my back. I've tried standing up straighter and the bar falls down my back and I have to push it back up with my hands which seems awkward and uncomfortable.
> 
> How do I correct this?
> 
> ...


you are leaning to far forward thoughout, maybe go lighter and work on your technique.

found this vid on youtube which may help


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

The bar is not low enough on your traps, you are initiating the squat with you knees and not your hips, you are not flexing the hip forward at the top and your squat is quad dominant.

Look up a video series called "so you think you can squat" on YouTube.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

YouTube the modified Thomas test.. Find out which of your hip flexors is causing the issue. Typically either Psoas or Rec. Fem.

Open that up at the beginning of the session, then do some specific glute drills. Hip extension work for glute max and maybe some external rotation work for glute med.

I.e banded clams + barbell hip thrusts

THEN try squatting.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

DC1 said:


> The bar is not low enough on your traps, you are initiating the squat with you knees and not your hips, you are not flexing the hip forward at the top and your squat is quad dominant.
> 
> Look up a video series called "so you think you can squat" on YouTube.


Cheers for the feedback.

The camera angle doesn't really show it - when I retract my scapula, the bar sits nicely on the shelf above my rear delts, which from what I've read from Mark Rippetoe is where it should be for low bar? I was advised to go low bar in the Starting Strength and 5x5 routine as it more globally stresses the hams and glutes due to the tighter hip angle cause by the necessary leaning forwards to balance the bar.....???

In my mind when I'm performing the exercise, I'm in the position shown for low bar on the right...










Do you think I'm further forward than this?

I can see the glute activation issues at the top with leaning forwards, but I'm trying to see where I can get them to drive me out the hole at the bottom.

Thanks for all the feedback.


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Cheers for the feedback.
> 
> The camera angle doesn't really show it - when I retract my scapula, the bar sits nicely on the shelf above my rear delts, which from what I've read from Mark Rippetoe is where it should be for low bar? I was advised to go low bar in the Starting Strength and 5x5 routine as it more globally stresses the hams and glutes due to the tighter hip angle cause by the necessary leaning forwards to balance the bar.....???
> 
> ...


Its hard to tell the bar position on the video but you are leaning a good bit at the bottom which suggests the bar is too high or your flexibility is perhaps affecting your depth.

Pause squats or box squats would allow you to take the quads out of the movement for the press but these need correct form also.

Is there no one at your gym you could ask for advice on your form.

Its a hard thing to correct without guidance on the correct form.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

DC1 said:


> Its hard to tell the bar position on the video but you are leaning a good bit at the bottom which suggests the bar is too high or your flexibility is perhaps affecting your depth.
> 
> Pause squats or box squats would allow you to take the quads out of the movement for the press but these need correct form also.
> 
> ...


Flexibility is still an issue that I'm working on, so that could be a reason.

I've a contact at the UTS The Underground Training Station - Elite training for all fitness levels - Hoylake, Wirral who I need to book an appointment with for some 'one on one' coaching as I think it's clear I can't sort this on my own - much to my frustration as I desperately want to get my squat and dead lift nailed on perfect so I can push my natural strength to my genetic limit and not be held back with injury or poor form.


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Flexibility is still an issue that I'm working on, so that could be a reason.
> 
> I've a contact at the UTS The Underground Training Station - Elite training for all fitness levels - Hoylake, Wirral who I need to book an appointment with for some 'one on one' coaching as I think it's clear I can't sort this on my own - much to my frustration as I desperately want to get my squat and dead lift nailed on perfect so I can push my natural strength to my genetic limit and not be held back with injury or poor form.


All the best with it buddy.


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## LiftNostalgia (Oct 27, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Cheers for the feedback.
> 
> The camera angle doesn't really show it - when I retract my scapula, the bar sits nicely on the shelf above my rear delts, which from what I've read from Mark Rippetoe is where it should be for low bar? I was advised to go low bar in the Starting Strength and 5x5 routine as it more globally stresses the hams and glutes due to the tighter hip angle cause by the necessary leaning forwards to balance the bar.....???
> 
> ...


It looks like you started off as the 2nd image shows and progressed to the 3rd with reps. Have you ever tried front squatting and pushing hard with your heels? It could help with the technique as you can't really lean forward when doing them.


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

ah24 said:


> YouTube the modified Thomas test.. Find out which of your hip flexors is causing the issue. Typically either Psoas or Rec. Fem.
> 
> Open that up at the beginning of the session, then do some specific glute drills. Hip extension work for glute max and maybe some external rotation work for glute med.
> 
> ...


Agree 100%.

I'd highly recommend barbell glute bridges. If you incorporate these into your training, do them before you squat, along with the band work. If you work on prepping for 10-15 minutes before your squat session, you'll see a major difference.


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## zasker (Jun 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Flexibility is still an issue that I'm working on, so that could be a reason.
> 
> I've a contact at the UTS The Underground Training Station - Elite training for all fitness levels - Hoylake, Wirral who I need to book an appointment with for some 'one on one' coaching as I think it's clear I can't sort this on my own - much to my frustration as I desperately want to get my squat and dead lift nailed on perfect so I can push my natural strength to my genetic limit and not be held back with injury or poor form.


One thing I noticed in the video is that your heels raise of the ground when squaring, not by a large amount but it is happening, it also looks like you lean forward to much.

If you lean back more and try pushing through your heels more this could help.... Although the heel issue could be due to flexibility in your calves.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

kristina said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> I'd highly recommend barbell glute bridges. If you incorporate these into your training, do them before you squat, along with the band work. If you work on prepping for 10-15 minutes before your squat session, you'll see a major difference.


Noted, thanks.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

zasker said:


> One thing I noticed in the video is that your heels raise of the ground when squaring, not by a large amount but it is happening, it also looks like you lean forward to much.
> 
> If you lean back more and try pushing through your heels more this could help.... Although the heel issue could be due to flexibility in your calves.


I hear you.

I'm 100% aware of trying to push through my heels and trying to lean back, and trying to push my ass/ hips further back etc - I've seen the videos, and read the books to distraction - but when push comes to shove, when I'm there, by myself with the bar on my back, it simply won't happen whilst keeping the bar balanced.

Thankfully, I have a strength coach session booked for tomorrow night which will be my first ever one-on-one critique of my issues I've ever had and hopefully will out the truth about my sh1tness.

As far has hip flexors go, I tore my rec fem when I first started squatting and had to take a few months off whilst it healed - the Thomas test done by my physio said it was caused by them over compensating due to my hams and glutes doing sweet FA and my flexors and quads having to do all the work - hence 50kg was a struggle!!!

He also said I have an imbalance on my quads and my hams were very tight.

All in all, I'm totally fckued.

BUT.... I WILL fix this. It's just terribly disheartening when you watch all the videos of how to squat - you need to do this, you need to make sure that.... fine, but if your body simply won't do that and there's nobody standing next to you watching exactly what is happening, it's very difficult to fix on your inexperienced own.

My recent battle has been with my hams winning the fight for control over my hips - pulling them into flexion in the hole.

You'd think something as simple as squatting with a bar on your back would be simple...


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## zasker (Jun 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> I hear you.
> 
> I'm 100% aware of trying to push through my heels and trying to lean back, and trying to push my ass/ hips further back etc - I've seen the videos, and read the books to distraction - but when push comes to shove, when I'm there, by myself with the bar on my back, it simply won't happen whilst keeping the bar balanced.
> 
> ...


i get what you mean... its frustrating be told something you know but cant do... id be able to give you more advice but its difficult to do over the interwebs.

one thing, by rec fem do you men rectus femoris?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

zasker said:


> one thing, by rec fem do you men rectus femoris?


Yep.

Sharp pain where my leg joins my groin, just to the right of Mr Angry. Took ages to heel, but got there in the end.

Hip hinge is still an issue, as seen here on my dead lift.






I simply can't reach the bar without rounding my upper back. Not sure whether being 6'4" with long legs is not helping. Ok, it's only a poultry 122.5kg, but I've only been lifting a few months so still early days. The only way to keep my back straighter is to bend my knees more, but this then pushes the bar forwards with my shins in front of the centre of my foot - something explicitly advised against by Mark Rippetoe in his book.

Conundrum...


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## zasker (Jun 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Yep.
> 
> Sharp pain where my leg joins my groin, just to the right of Mr Angry. Took ages to heel, but got there in the end.
> 
> ...


the rectus femoris is actually in your hamstring, but it does reach fairly far up, so it could be an issue.

keep us posted on how your session goes later today, hopefully some good will come of it.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

zasker said:


> the rectus femoris is actually in your hamstring, but it does reach fairly far up, so it could be an issue.
> 
> keep us posted on how your session goes later today, hopefully some good will come of it.


No it's not.. That's the Biceps Femoris. The Rectus Femoris is on the anterior of the thigh.


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## zasker (Jun 21, 2014)

ah24 said:


> No it's not.. That's the Biceps Femoris. The Rectus Femoris is on the anterior of the thigh.


i may be getting myself mixed up... im in the middle of a psychology lecutre :lol: so typing fast inbetween notes.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

ah24 said:


> The Rectus Femoris is on the anterior of the thigh.


Yes, and bloody hurts trying to squat when it's damaged! :lol:

My coaching session is tomorrow night with a woman who loves to squat who was recommended to me 

Hopefully I'll be able to walk out knowing what I need to fix and more importantly how to fix it.


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## Rathore (Feb 23, 2014)

Have you tried proping up your ankles? It's help you do full squats, that should help with glute activation


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Rathore said:


> Have you tried proping up your ankles? It's help you do full squats, that should help with glute activation


It's been mentioned, but books I've read tell me to fix the problem, rather than compensate for it... confused dot com

I'll see what coach lady says.


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## Rathore (Feb 23, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> It's been mentioned, but books I've read tell me to fix the problem, rather than compensate for it... confused dot com
> 
> I'll see what coach lady says.


Yeah I would agree. I was told it was due to lordosis and hip flexibility. I've been doing warrior lunges and bridges to fix it - which is gradually helping the issues. But I still have to prop them a little to get full squats


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Rathore said:


> Yeah I would agree. I was told it was due to lordosis and hip flexibility. I've been doing warrior lunges and bridges to fix it - which is gradually helping the issues. But I still have to prop them a little to get full squats


I'm looking forwards to tonight to see what coach lady says.

However, whilst squatting last night and trying to force my body to adopt the position everyone is prescribing, I strained my rec.fem again. :sad:


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## zasker (Jun 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> I'm looking forwards to tonight to see what coach lady says.
> 
> However, whilst squatting last night and trying to force my body to adopt the position everyone is prescribing, I strained my rec.fem again. :sad:


ouchy... how'd the session go with the coach?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

zasker said:


> ouchy... how'd the session go with the coach?


Session is tonight - I'll have to go very light though with my strain - last thing I need is ANOTHER 6 weeks off squats due to the same fcuking injury caused by the same sh1tty movement pattern fault.

Sometimes I just want to punch myself in the face until we both cry.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

The Sweeney said:


> I've tried standing up straighter and the bar falls down my back and I have to push it back up with my hands which seems awkward and uncomfortable.
> 
> How do I correct this?
> 
> What am I doing wrong regarding balance and the bar 'falling'


Thumbs over the bar.

Don't think about holding the bar, you want to be wedging it in place.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Prince Adam said:


> Thumbs over the bar.
> 
> Don't think about holding the bar, you want to be wedging it in place.


Ah... didn't feel natural or comfortable last time I tried - I'll have another go tonight with the coach.

Hope she's fit AND competent.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

http://www.allthingsgym.com/mark-rippetoe-on-the-squat-bar-position/


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## sniper16 (Oct 1, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> I've been working on my squat as hard as I can to get my form better and whilst I'm making progress, I simply cannot engage my glutes.
> 
> I'm squeezing, pushing forwards, inwards, doing everything I can think of, but nothing.
> 
> ...


you lean to far forward and push up with the balls of your feet,you need to push up with your heels.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

sniper16 said:


> you lean to far forward and push up with the balls of your feet,you need to push up with your heels.


I know, but for some reason I can't get the weight over them. Almost impossible to explain. Just seems impossible to lean back in the hole. :sad:

I guess tonight will reveal the real truth behind my rubbishness.


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## sniper16 (Oct 1, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> I know, but for some reason I can't get the weight over them. Almost impossible to explain. Just seems impossible to lean back in the hole. :sad:
> 
> I guess tonight will reveal the real truth behind my rubbishness.


im sure it will be fine its all trial an error good luck with tonight.


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

The Sweeney said:


> I've been working on my squat as hard as I can to get my form better and whilst I'm making progress, I simply cannot engage my glutes.
> 
> I'm squeezing, pushing forwards, inwards, doing everything I can think of, but nothing.
> 
> ...


bar too high meaning your bar path isnt straight whilst squatting in a low bar style.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

harryalmighty said:


> bar too high meaning your bar path isnt straight whilst squatting in a low bar style.


That's just the thing - any lower and it'll fall off! Seriously, it doesn't show it in the video, but it is resting on top of my rear delts - across the spine of the scapula. It rests comfortably on the delt shelf. I tried lowering it further but if just rolls off the cliff, where at the moment it feels at home on the 'shelf'.

I guess tonight will highlight the issues.

I'm probably wrong... well I must be - or I wouldn't be typing this thread!

I'll be sure to come back tonight with a long list of faults that will likely crush me into eating donuts and pizza from the sofa watching Jerry Springer until I die of a heart attack.


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

The Sweeney said:


> That's just the thing - any lower and it'll fall off! Seriously, it doesn't show it in the video, but it is resting on top of my rear delts - across the spine of the scapula. It rests comfortably on the delt shelf. I tried lowering it further but if just rolls off the cliff, where at the moment it feels at home on the 'shelf'.
> 
> I guess tonight will highlight the issues.
> 
> ...


haha, dont let it dishearten you!

earlier this year i bought my squat right back down to 60K and built it back up using a L/P program. during this time just really focused on hamstring, hip and glute flexibility and really focused on certain ques, which will be different as i squat high bar so wont bother listing them, which is the best thing ive ever done for my squat.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

harryalmighty said:


> haha, dont let it dishearten you!
> 
> earlier this year i bought my squat right back down to 60K and built it back up using a L/P program. during this time just really focused on hamstring, hip and glute flexibility and really focused on certain ques, which will be different as i squat high bar so wont bother listing them, which is the best thing ive ever done for my squat.


This video from the master is very good.






When I've done the hip drive thing in the past like her, I've been accused of turning the exercise into a 'good morning'...


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Well, that was an eye opener.

Started of by assessing my basic squat form with a broom stick and after just a couple of reps it was obvious (to her) what the issue was. We quickly moved onto testing my flexibility...

My ankle flexibility is reasonable but could be better.

My hamstrings are too tight and pulling my hips into flexion.

My hip flexors are tight.

My quads are tight.

My chest is tight.

My lower back is tight.

My shoulder flexibility is poor.

My glutes are asleep.

She went through a series of exercises and stretches for me to work on (almost had to crawl out the place at the end) which will help.

After an hour of testing and stretching me, we then analysed my squat at 40kg - light enough to perform endless reps, heavy enough to recreate a realistic bar path and movement pattern.

The results are in:-

Nothing is MASSIVELY broken, however...

1) Poor shoulder flexibility is preventing me supporting/gripping the bar properly making me lean / hunch forwards too much.

2) My tight chest and back is preventing sufficient thoracic extension making me bend/hunch forwards too much.

3) By bending too far forwards the weight is shifting forwards away from my heels.

4) I'm not keeping my knees apart consistently enough on the way down meaning my feet are rolling inwards slightly.

5) My poor ankle flexibility means that near the bottom my knees can't go forwards enough forcing me to bend my back further forwards to maintain balance.

6) Being bent too far forwards advances the onset of hip flexion before parallel.

7) Once my hips go into flexion I collapse forwards in thoracic flexion - a combination of tight hams, ankle mobility and stuff I forget.

8) From the collapsed position it's nigh on impossible for me to come out of the hole with any kind of form or glute / ham assistance as everything is off kilter.

9) My interpretation of hip drive is the wrong way round - it needs to be forwards resulting in up, rather than up resulting in forwards.

10) I need to drop the weight right back to 40kg, forget about the numbers and concentrate on on form, stopping as soon as reach the limit of my current flexibility which for me is a little above parallel. At the same time I need to do all my stretching, flexibility and glute exercises and allow myself to break parallel only when my flexibility allows and not force it with bad form.

Does any of that ring true?


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## Mikkeltaylor (Jun 10, 2014)

Wow, it imagine I she would say pretty much the same thing about me, so yeah it def sounds like you have plenty to work on.

In the past I've found that shoulder dislocations help with the mobility side and help get my hands/wrists where they need to be aswell as squeezing shoulder blades together to create that 'shelf'

Are you due to go back to her with progress? What about the injury you have, will the stretching exercises help with the recovery?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Mikkeltaylor said:


> Wow, it imagine I she would say pretty much the same thing about me, so yeah it def sounds like you have plenty to work on.
> 
> In the past I've found that shoulder dislocations help with the mobility side and help get my hands/wrists where they need to be aswell as squeezing shoulder blades together to create that 'shelf'
> 
> Are you due to go back to her with progress? What about the injury you have, will the stretching exercises help with the recovery?


I caught my injury just in time this time so I can continue to squat, but ONLY within the limits of my flexibility.

My flexors are getting injured because my hams and glutes aren't playing out, so my body compensates for their lack of team work by having to work over time stabilizing me - they can't cope and and fall apart under the pressure.

I can't afford to have regular one on one sessions (I can only just afford my gym membership as it is) so it was an extravagance paying for one on one coaching, but an investment that I hope will pay dividends by at least giving me an instruction manual of what is wrong with me and how best to fix it.

It all comes from the concept of ideal world where I look for the ham string stretch and rebound reflex in the hole - but in my case, that stretch and rebound opportunity occurs above parallel for me so without realising it, and in search of the 'break parallel or your squats ain't worth sh1t' holy grail, I descend into the hole, but beyond my flexibility which means the the ham stretch reflex has been and gone, I'm in deep lower lumbar flexion, my flexors are screaming WTF and my hams and glutes and laughing from their relaxation hammock simply unwilling to even entertain the idea of coming to help.

That's how I see it anyway.

I have much work to do and am very down about it.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

DISASTER.

That was without doubt the worst session I have ever had in the gym.

Did a load of warm up stretches and exercises focused my mind and set about doing some squats.

Utter pants.

Bending too far forwards, bar path travelling forwards, weight shifting off my heels.

I simply cannot help it and it's a strange combination of blood boilingly frustrating at the same time as being incredibly disheartening.

I looked for every possible cue, concentrated on all the mental messages...

Knees out, break at the hips, back tight, chest up, push your bum back, keep the weight over your heels, don't let your back lean forwards....

I watched the videos back and pretty much everything I tried to do, the opposite happened.

I was so fed up I abandoned the squats after about 7 light sets, tried a heavy set and it was even worse.

Bugger it - moved onto shoulders, but just warming up with the empty bar, my head had gone. All my positivity and 'can do' had drained out of my body and I was defeated. I had nothing to give.

I packed my bag and sloped off out the gym, really sad, dejected and questioning how, where and via what means I'm going to get something so fcuking simple as a correct squat sorted having missed out on a shoulders and deads session to boot.

I can't afford any more coaching and have nobody to train with who knows what they're doing.

Meh.


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## Mikkeltaylor (Jun 10, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> DISASTER.
> 
> That was without doubt the worst session I have ever had in the gym.
> 
> ...


Mate , I've def been there had back n hip problems for ages now. Lean forward on squats when I hit parralell and so fed up with not being able to squat properly. Been like this for ages but never get round to sorting it properly. At least you are trying in sure you'll improve if u keep at it


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Mikkeltaylor said:


> Mate , I've def been there had back n hip problems for ages now. Lean forward on squats when I hit parralell and so fed up with not being able to squat properly. Been like this for ages but never get round to sorting it properly. At least you are trying in sure you'll improve if u keep at it


Thanks pal, your words of encouragement mean a lot.


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## stano (Dec 4, 2014)

Hi can anybody please give me abit of information on what's the best to start off on please


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## stano (Dec 4, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Cheers for the feedback.
> 
> The camera angle doesn't really show it - when I retract my scapula, the bar sits nicely on the shelf above my rear delts, which from what I've read from Mark Rippetoe is where it should be for low bar? I was advised to go low bar in the Starting Strength and 5x5 routine as it more globally stresses the hams and glutes due to the tighter hip angle cause by the necessary leaning forwards to balance the bar.....???
> 
> ...


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## theBEAST1990 (Aug 4, 2012)

Your glutes aren't the problem, there is no explosiveness from your hip flexors. Pull throughs with a kettle bell will drill the technique for popping your hips through. That in itself will help you generate more power out the hole.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

tattoodworrior1 said:


> Your glutes aren't the problem, there is no explosiveness from your hip flexors. Pull throughs with a kettle bell will drill the technique for popping your hips through. That in itself will help you generate more power out the hole.


Please explain how the hip flexors will help in EXTEND the hip. Also explain how hip flexors (which helps you bow down) will help with power out of the hole.

Also, explain how glutes, hamstrings and adductors can properly aid in hip extension with no pelvic stability. Explain how great his posterior hip function is, when there's obvious posterior pelvic tilt, and hips are shooting up when commencing the lift.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Just to add, whilst I'm sure my squat is far from perfect, the help and advice I've received on here has helped me really improve and I'm now at 97.5kg - albeit the last couple are real grinders, but a noticeable improvement from before.

My current area to work on is not letting my core collapse under the weight of the bar in the hole tipping the weight over my toes. I'm fine to about 90kg, but can feel myself collapsing, despite high intra abdominal pressure against my belt above 90kg.

I'll get there. 

My glutes are definitely doing something now as when I clench them they're hard as rock where this wasn't the case until recently.

The biggest mental cue I use coming out of the hole is Mark Ripptoe's "Hip drive, hip drive, hip drive" where I imagine a crane is hooked round an imaginary clip on the top of my ass crack hoisting my hips vertically upwards - at the same time trying to keep my upper back rising at the same speed so I don't topple forwards.

It was that cue that got me the most recent weight increase.


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## theBEAST1990 (Aug 4, 2012)

Kjetil1234 said:


> Please explain how the hip flexors will help in EXTEND the hip. Also explain how hip flexors (which helps you bow down) will help with power out of the hole.
> 
> Also, explain how glutes, hamstrings and adductors can properly aid in hip extension with no pelvic stability. Explain how great his posterior hip function is, when there's obvious posterior pelvic tilt, and hips are shooting up when commencing the lift.


Assuming he is doing the standard olympic back squat aka high bar. You will stand with your feet shoulder width apart or wider, toes pointed out slightly and your knees tracking your toes. As you descend into the hole you push outward slightly with your knees to truly achieve depth. So his hamstrings will be touching his calves and depending on ankle flexibility, quads on his torso.

From the hole, he attempts to separate the ground using his feet. This will activate the hip flexors and when used in coordination with the quads and posterior chain, it'll help pop the hips forward. The adductors help stop the hips opening too much on the descent and bring the legs in slightly on the way up.


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## theBEAST1990 (Aug 4, 2012)

The Sweeney said:


> Just to add, whilst I'm sure my squat is far from perfect, the help and advice I've received on here has helped me really improve and I'm now at 97.5kg - albeit the last couple are real grinders, but a noticeable improvement from before.
> 
> My current area to work on is not letting my core collapse under the weight of the bar in the hole tipping the weight over my toes. I'm fine to about 90kg, but can feel myself collapsing, despite high intra abdominal pressure against my belt above 90kg.
> 
> ...


Hip drive is *VERY* important for a big squat, as is a big ass.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

tattoodworrior1 said:


> Assuming he is doing the standard olympic back squat aka high bar. You will stand with your feet shoulder width apart or wider, toes pointed out slightly and your knees tracking your toes. As you descend into the hole you push outward slightly with your knees to truly achieve depth. So his hamstrings will be touching his calves and depending on ankle flexibility, quads on his torso.
> 
> From the hole, he attempts to separate the ground using his feet. This will activate the hip flexors and when used in coordination with the quads and posterior chain, it'll help pop the hips forward. The adductors help stop the hips opening too much on the descent and bring the legs in slightly on the way up.


The hip flexors will... FLEX the hip. Do you know what hip flexion is? It's bending the hip. Hip flexors are antagonists of posterior chain, they oppose each other. It will not help the hips pop forward, it will restrict them to flexion.

The adductors function as adductors and hip extensors.

In short... No. It's not the hip flexors.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Kjetil1234 said:


> The hip flexors will... FLEX the hip. Do you know what hip flexion is? It's bending the hip. Hip flexors are antagonists of posterior chain, they oppose each other. It will not help the hips pop forward, it will restrict them to flexion.
> 
> The adductors function as adductors and hip extensors.
> 
> In short... No. It's not the hip flexors.


Agreed.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

A video some may find interesting:


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## B.I.G (Jun 23, 2011)

ah24 said:


> A video some may find interesting:


Interesting video, I've never really thought of all the proportions having that much of an effect but it makes sense.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

F.I.S.T. said:


> Definitely agree with the others,leaning forward way too much.Work on that brother.Try it on a smith machine.*This will force you to stay more straight. *


But is that really the answer?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

For the record, I low bar with feet just outside of shoulder width.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Regarding leaning forwards - correct my thinking if I'm off the mark - the bar wants to be over the mid foot at all times?

Therefore at the top, if the bar is in the low bar position, I HAVE to be bent over to keep the bar over the mid foot?

Same at the bottom - long femurs MUST result in a more bent over torso in order to keep the bar over the mid foot - I can't see any logical mechanical alternative to this?

I can feel the weight over the heel / mid foot so am confident that at the bottom and the top, I'm there or there abouts - the issue I;m finding with the weight at the heaviest I can manage is that as I come out of the hole, my hips come up faster than my shoulders which is making me tip forwards - I struggle to keep my shoulders/chest coming up at the same speed as my hips.

For the record, I'm much further on and better than in the video at the start of this thread, so don't think I'm referring to that at the moment - I've made big improvements from there - it's just the coming out of the hole that is the issue now when the weight is maxed out.

At up to 80% max weight, I'm confident my form is now half decent.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

This video is more representative of my current form, although since then I'm lifting much heavier and not breathing out on the way up which I realised I was doing wrong.

As you can see, the main issue is coming out of the hole where the bar path shifts forwards a little. The rest of the time the bar is over the mid foot so I'm happy.

The 'box' is only there for depth - I'm not putting any load or weight on it - just the lightest touch so I can learn my 'depth'.


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## AndyWaller (Oct 10, 2014)

Have you tried using a Smith machine?

Not necessarily with weight on, just get yourself used to a nice, straight up and down movement.

We used to do a lot of muscle memory work when I played basketball for free throws etc and small exercises like this gets your body used to doing the right movement.

My lower back is fooked and I can't squat without being in agony! I've really tight hamstrings too which doesn't help.

Anyway, I find it really helps me, even for just a warm up.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/CanditoTrainingHq/posts/723140457801237
> 
> 
> 
> you read this that i linked earlier right?


Sorry, I missed it, but will read it next, cheers.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

AndyWaller said:


> Have you tried using a Smith machine?
> 
> Not necessarily with weight on, just get yourself used to a nice, straight up and down movement.
> 
> ...


No, never tried it to be fair.


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## AndyWaller (Oct 10, 2014)

Also, have you popped some small weights or something under your heels?

Not too much needed, just enough to stop your hamstring pulling your heel up!


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## AndyWaller (Oct 10, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> No, never tried it to be fair.


Give it a go.

Obviously you can't sway forwards or backwards and your body will have to accommodate for this.

Feel where everything is on your way up and down and try to integrate that into your normal squat.


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## AndyWaller (Oct 10, 2014)

Muscle memory at it's finest!!


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

I feel I'm getting there, although since last sessions balls to the wall PB, my left hip is killing me as I put load on or off the joint.

I'm confident I can keep a straight and vertical bar path up to about 80% of my max work set weight - above that and I feel my core strength isn't sufficient to stop me collapsing forwards slightly as I try to come out of the hole.

*What I'd absolutely love..... is to find a member on here in the North West area who is sympathetic to my plight, experienced in the low bar squat, understands that differing femur, shin and back length will impact the amount o f forward lean required and is willing to spend a short amount of time with me to watch me squat and point out the areas where I'm not quite there.*

I've watched endless youtube videos to the point where I'm dreaming of these online coaches and feel I've got about as far as I can without someone standing next to me who knows what they're doing who can help me.

*
I guess I'm asking for help.... *

(Just measured me femurs - the distance from my knee to my hip hinge is approx. 65cm so you could say I have very long femurs.... forward lean?)


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Whoo - hoo!

For the first time I have doms in my glutes after squatting!

They haz been activated, innit? :thumb:


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Bixx said:


> Brilliant thread.


Agreed. Reading voraciously.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> This video is more representative of my current form, although since then I'm lifting much heavier and not breathing out on the way up which I realised I was doing wrong.
> 
> As you can see, the main issue is coming out of the hole where the bar path shifts forwards a little. The rest of the time the bar is over the mid foot so I'm happy.
> 
> The 'box' is only there for depth - I'm not putting any load or weight on it - just the lightest touch so I can learn my 'depth'.


You are lowering yourself past your mobility, thus flexing hte lumbosacral region and losing proper hip function and potential.

1: Work on not lowering yourself lower than where you can maintain lumbosacral arch

2: Push hip forward while squeezing low back and stomach and glutes.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Kjetil1234 said:


> You are lowering yourself past your mobility, thus flexing hte lumbosacral region and losing proper hip function and potential.
> 
> 1: Work on not lowering yourself lower than where you can maintain lumbosacral arch
> 
> 2: Push hip forward while squeezing low back and stomach and glutes.


Further work on the hip hinge required to increase mobility?

I'm determined to get this nailed!!!

I've just had it drilled into me endlessly that unless I break parallel, my squats aren't worth sh1t, my knees will fall off, the baby Jesus will cry and a kitten will die for every rep that doesn't break parallel.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Further work on the hip hinge required to increase mobility?
> 
> I'm determined to get this nailed!!!
> 
> I've just had it drilled into me endlessly that unless I break parallel, my squats aren't worth sh1t, my knees will fall off, the baby Jesus will cry and a kitten will die for every rep that doesn't break parallel.


I suggest you PM me about a couple of weeks of webcoaching. You've been doing this for too long without proper results tbh mate.


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## Straighthate (Dec 22, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Further work on the hip hinge required to increase mobility?
> 
> I'm determined to get this nailed!!!
> 
> I've just had it drilled into me endlessly that unless I break parallel, my squats aren't worth sh1t, my knees will fall off, the baby Jesus will cry and a kitten will die for every rep that doesn't break parallel.


my femurs are 45cm and mine are very long, yours are huge if they are 60cm

*you dont have a mobility issue here*

watch this video, its made by an expert in biomechanics, if you cant be bothered here are the cliffs:

-you probably have a deep hip socket aswell as your long femurs

-almost nobody is so inflexible that their muscles restrict them from hitting depth in the squat

-no amount of mobility work can fix an *anatomical issue*

-use squat shoes as they push your knees forward allowing you to squat deep properly






you really shouldnt be using a belt at all, why havent you made your abs and back strong enough to keep you upright?

even powerlifters that compete with a belt train for nearly of the year without one, and advise against using one unless competing in a meet


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Kjetil1234 said:


> I suggest you PM me about a couple of weeks of webcoaching. You've been doing this for too long without proper results tbh mate.


I'm flat out broke at the moment so can't afford any coaching, but thanks for the kind offer, appreciated.



Straighthate said:


> my femurs are 45cm and mine are very long, yours are huge if they are 60cm
> 
> *you dont have a mobility issue here*
> 
> ...


My 60cm measurement is from the front of my kneecap to the peak of my hip bone when sitting in a chair with neutral pelvic tilt - I can tilt forwards and shorten it to about 56cm and tilt rearwards and increase it to about 64cm

Hope I've measured correctly.

Last night was me best squat ever - I did:

10 x empty bar

8 x 60kg

5 x 70kg

5 x 80kg

5 x 90kg

3 x 100kg

The last three were balls to the wall and I 'mostly' kept the weight over my heels and only tipped forwards coming out of the hole a very small amount.

I find the mental cues of looking down (neutral neck, 45 degrees below horizontal), tipping back on my heels and driving with the hip really helped. I just say to myself as a mantra head, heels, hips - head heels, hips - head, heels, hips and it brings better consistency.

The biggest help is looking down - if I look straight ahead I lose all my hip drive.

The belt... I feel with the belt, I can really breathe deep into my lower abdomen against the belt which really supports my long lower back and really helps me keep tight at the bottom and helps prevent me caving in coming out of the hole.

I'm REALLY trying here chaps - sorry if I'm not getting the results or progress I'm aiming for quickly enough.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

No worries mate, hit me up when you're ready.


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