# Dead lift first or last?



## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

I failed my first ever dead lift today - combination of events, not least a twinge in my lower back felt on one of the warm up sets making me mentally and physically 'protect' it.

I've always left my DL until the end of any session, but recently I've been doing it first using the logic that I'll have the most energy....

But, I can't actually say it's made much (if any) of a difference.

I'm wondering if maybe just my warm up sets for the DL aren't enough, and if I go back to doing it a the end of the session, I might be more thoroughly warmed up and less likely to strain my lower back or use poor form?

My warm up sets today were...

6 @ 67.5

5 @ 87.5

4 @ 107.5

3 @ 127.5

2 @ 137.7

(End of warm up)

5 @ 147.5 but failed on the 4th

Any thoughts on first or last, or whether they are adequate warm up sets?


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

first, acts as a whole body warm up, doing it last i find over pressures the lower back when the traps and delts and a bit fried


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

The end? I've always personally put it first, in fact my backday became that demanding, I've decided to vouch for a day sorely deadlifting. a VERY taxing exercise, both on the CNS & Grip & as a whole. a exercise that commands respect and certainly needs to be treated ''special'' and a category of it's own.


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

Depends on the type of workout you're doing of say. If it's something just full of compounds, I'd do it last, as deadlift will tax you too much for squats etc.

If isolations, I'd do it first as per the post two above mine


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I do it first on back day cos I wouldn't have the energy at the end.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

That was my logic too, although I was doing it last as per the SS/SL 3x5 routine.

Is my warm up set routine sufficient?

I'm concious of not warming up enough risking injury, versus doing too many warm ups and not having the energy for the PB or work set.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dead last for me :laugh: Okay that was shyte, sorry...

Reason being, if I deadlift or rack pull, I'm then ****ed, and I end up slogging my way through the rest of my workout with low energy levels. Whereas used as a back finisher, it caps off a hard workout - I might not be fresh, but that just means using less weight.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> That was my logic too, although I was doing it last as per the SS/SL 3x5 routine.
> 
> Is my warm up set routine sufficient?
> 
> I'm concious of not warming up enough risking injury, versus doing too many warm ups and not having the energy for the PB or work set.


A warmup shouldn't be fatiguing IMO. It should just warmup you up thoroughly and prepare the joints/muscles/ligaments/tendons/connective tissues etc.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Depends really..

If strength is the goal - placing it first works v well.

For hypertrophy though, I think rack pulls toward the end of a work out work well.

No real hard & fast rule though.


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

Personally, i train it first and by itself. It is a huge movement physiologically...very taxing on the cns and you can work up to very heavy poundage so hits everything really hard.if your back is playing up check your form, stretch your hammies and foam roll!


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

What's the opinion of the warm up sets I posted?


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't do deads. Artemus dolgin said they make your waist wide.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> What's the opinion of the warm up sets I posted?


I personally think your last warm up set is to close to your working weight


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## Betts020577 (Jul 13, 2014)

Sorry to jump in on this thread but are warm up sets required if your doing other back exercises and you leave the deadlift while last ?

Cheers


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## Jamieson (Jul 11, 2014)

Betts020577 said:


> Sorry to jump in on this thread but are warm up sets required if your doing other back exercises and you leave the deadlift while last ?
> 
> Cheers


This will depend on a number of factors such as the rep speed, over all conditioning, local and systemic fatigue of the earlier working sets, prevailing injuries etc.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> I personally think your last warm up set is to close to your working weight


Could you maybe advise on a better warm up set/weight/pyramid?

I like to go 'close' on my last warm up set to mentally prepare me for the task ahead - it's a real 'grind it out job' on the last warm up, but I'm then able to tell myself "Come on, it's only another 10kg, you'll hardly notice it, it'll feel almost the same...come on, you can do this!!!...." etc, etc


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## Andrewgenic (Jul 5, 2010)

I always kick off with deads on a back workout because I would be too exhausted at the end of a workout to do it justice


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

The Sweeney said:


> I failed my first ever dead lift today - combination of events, not least a twinge in my lower back felt on one of the warm up sets making me mentally and physically 'protect' it.
> 
> I've always left my DL until the end of any session, but recently I've been doing it first using the logic that I'll have the most energy....
> 
> ...


I do mine 1st mate but with that many warm ups it`s almost at the end of a workout anyway.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> What's the opinion of the warm up sets I posted?


Looks good to me mate.

Warmups are a personal thing - some people don't do that much, but I've always found that plenty of warmup sets gets everything working properly. I think you need more as you get older too.

When I maxed out on 200kg a few months ago, my session was :

40kg - 15

70kg - 10

100kg - 5

130kg - 3

160kg - 1

180kg - 1

200kg - 1


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Betts020577 said:


> Sorry to jump in on this thread but are warm up sets required if your doing other back exercises and you leave the deadlift while last ?
> 
> Cheers


For a movement like deadlifts or rack pulls, absolutely necessary IMO. You're gonna be using heavy weights, never wise to just jump straight in without some kind of preparation.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Could you maybe advise on a better warm up set/weight/pyramid?
> 
> I like to go 'close' on my last warm up set to mentally prepare me for the task ahead - it's a real 'grind it out job' on the last warm up, but I'm then able to tell myself "Come on, it's only another 10kg, you'll hardly notice it, it'll feel almost the same...come on, you can do this!!!...." etc, etc


How many sets and reps do you aim for on your working weight ?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> How many sets and reps do you aim for on your working weight ?


1 set of 5, as per starting strength, strong lifts etc...


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> 1 set of 5, as per starting strength, strong lifts etc...


I personally would do

60kg X 10

80kg x 5

100kg x 3

112.5kg x 1

122.5kg x 1

132.5kg x 1

147.5kg X 5

The singles are there to get you to your working weight


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

Pull ups as a warm up exercise,

If target is strenght then 1st, if muscle - towards the end, i had/have dominant lower back, and lagging upper, therefore upper

Is always first!


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> I personally would do
> 
> 60kg X 10
> 
> ...


Was the 15kg jump at the end intentional? I just noticed that it was 10kg for the previous singles....


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Was the 15kg jump at the end intentional? I just noticed that it was 10kg for the previous singles....


Yeah you dont want to get to close to your working weight its just enough that its not to big a jump in weight


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)




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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

If you are dead lifting on any given day then I personally would plan the whole session around the dead lift. I would certainly DL first then do assistance after it. If you are on a split that includes DL then do it first.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

sen said:


> I don't do deads. Artemus dolgin said *they make your waist wide*.


No they don't.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

zyphy said:


> No they don't.


Look at artemus dolgin, see how amazing his physique is. I'll take his advice over most other people's.


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

Deadlift on its own maybe with a few accessory exercises after but nothing to taxing! That's my opinion,

Warm up hammies, glutes n abbs. Foam roll and stretch then start but using stretches throughout workout for the back and hams.

Start with 15 x 60kg, 15 x100kg, 10 x 140kg, 8 x 180, 4 x 220, 2 x 240 1 x 250

de-load down to 180kg and do 5 x 5

That was my last dead session

After I did pull ups and biceps


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## musclemate (Sep 14, 2012)

Mix it up... And don't stick to one or the other. Just keep shocking the body


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> I personally would do
> 
> 60kg X 10
> 
> ...


Did this last night and got my 5 reps!*

*By the skin of my teeth! Got three out and was feeling done, scraped the forth, but then found the mental strength to at least attempt the 5th. Took a few deep breaths, got the bar off the floor somehow and just ground it out slowly looking very much like an angry Ribena Berry :lol:

Nailed it though.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Did this last night and got my 5 reps!*
> 
> *By the skin of my teeth! Got three out and was feeling done, scraped the forth, but then found the mental strength to at least attempt the 5th. Took a few deep breaths, got the bar off the floor somehow and just ground it out slowly looking very much like an angry Ribena Berry :lol:
> 
> Nailed it though.


Well done mate now onwards and upwards to the next weight.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

I always like to do 500m on the rower before a deadlift session... the movement isn't too dissimilar from a deadlift and helps raise the core temp slightly. Obviously I also do warm up sets.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> Well done mate now onwards and upwards to the next weight.


150kg?

As soon as I'd done it I was saying to myself, "stick at that weight next time until my form is perfect", as the last one especially was a by hook or by crook affair.

Shall I twist or stick?


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

I always do them first thing. Thats if i can actually use the bar that is


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> 150kg?
> 
> As soon as I'd done it I was saying to myself, "stick at that weight next time until my form is perfect", as the last one especially was a by hook or by crook affair.
> 
> Shall I twist or stick?


You could go for it again next week then try going up in weight


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> You could go for it again next week then try going up in weight


Think I'll cement 147.5 one more time.

You know when you just 'know' it's not right on the way up, where the weight is just so heavy that any good shape and form you had at the bottom disappears as everything bends and compensates to somehow get the weight dragging up your shins whilst you can hear that grisly grinding tissue noise inside your head from your scapula area... And that when you finish the set you walk away not in triumph that you did the reps, but that you swerved a wheelchair one more time... :lol:


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Think I'll cement 147.5 one more time.
> 
> You know when you just 'know' it's not right on the way up, where the weight is just so heavy that any good shape and form you had at the bottom disappears as everything bends and compensates to somehow get the weight dragging up your shins whilst you can hear that grisly grinding tissue noise inside your head from your scapula area... And that when you finish the set you walk away not in triumph that you did the reps, but that you swerved a wheelchair one more time... :lol:


lol i hear that on many occasion mate but i agree if you smash it again for another week you will be more prepared for the 150kg


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## elliot438 (Mar 9, 2013)

I usually do pullups/ weighted pull ups first to get me feeling it then my deads. I only pull 1-3 reps on my deadlifts anyway so I need the energy and strength, failed 280kg yesterday but will get it soon enough!


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> lol i hear that on many occasion mate but i agree if you smash it again for another week you will be more prepared for the 150kg


Glad I'm not the only one to hear that noise!

And what's all that blood taste about?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

elliot438 said:


> I usually do pullups/ weighted pull ups first to get me feeling it then my deads. I only pull 1-3 reps on my deadlifts anyway so I need the energy and strength, failed 280kg yesterday but will get it soon enough!


280kg!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!111!!!!!

Why do I suddenly feel very pathetic?

Having said that, I've only been lifting since August and had never done a dead lift in my life so I guess it's still early days?


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Glad I'm not the only one to hear that noise!
> 
> And what's all that blood taste about?


Iv never had the blood taste or burst my nose but then again iv probably not gone heavy enough to experience that just yet lol.


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

I do bodyweight followed by weighted pull ups followed by heavy underhand bar rows then deads finishing with shrugs.

Have also done deads first in the past but I prefer the former format....

Just my 2 pence...

SickC


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## elliot438 (Mar 9, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> 280kg!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!111!!!!!
> 
> Why do I suddenly feel very pathetic?
> 
> Having said that, I've only been lifting since August and had never done a dead lift in my life so I guess it's still early days?


Yeah mate, I've been lifting pretty much 3 years full on now although I have never had a strict deadlifting routine in fact probably only deadlifted 1-2 years out of the entire training. Always been pretty strong though, I could bench 60kg when I first started lifting which was also my bodyweight lol


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## Mr Beefy (Jul 6, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> it's a real 'grind it out job' on the last warm up


Your problem isn't when's best to do the deadlift, it's how your going about doing them, grinding out the last warm up??? Wtf, the only grinding out (if any at all) should be on the last set of a 5x5, your form on your working sets must be shocking!


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Only annoying part when going heavy is ripping calluses open lmao


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Mr Beefy said:


> Your problem isn't when's best to do the deadlift, it's how your going about doing them, grinding out the last warm up??? Wtf, the only grinding out (if any at all) should be on the last set of a 5x5, your form on your working sets must be shocking!


Lol yeah, you shouldn't be 'grinding' out a rep if its a warm up.. a warm up is meant to be used to get your body ready for your working weight.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Mr Beefy said:


> Your problem isn't when's best to do the deadlift, it's how your going about doing them, grinding out the last warm up??? Wtf, the only grinding out (if any at all) should be on the last set of a 5x5, your form on your working sets must be shocking!


Could be... maybe I'm going too heavy?

They start feeling heavy at 100kg, really heavy at 120kg and "fcuk me this is ridiculous, glad it's a only a single" at 130kg.... so yeah, to then do 5 @ 147.5 is a feat of mental commitment and will, more than physical strength.

I know when my form is bad as I have a sore lower back later that night and the next day, but thankfully that's not happened for a long time from when I was learning the movement. Form could well be poor though, however it's too heavy to do much about it (if it is poor) - my body just does what it has to to get the weight off the deck - any idea of trying to maintain this or do that is overcome by the weight.


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## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

First

If doing stiff-legged, second after squats


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## Mr Beefy (Jul 6, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Could be... maybe I'm going too heavy?
> 
> They start feeling heavy at 100kg, really heavy at 120kg and "fcuk me this is ridiculous, glad it's a only a single" at 130kg.... so yeah, to then do 5 @ 147.5 is a feat of mental commitment and will, more than physical strength.
> 
> I know when my form is bad as I have a sore lower back later that night and the next day, but thankfully that's not happened for a long time from when I was learning the movement. Form could well be poor though, however it's too heavy to do much about it (if it is poor) - my body just does what it has to to get the weight off the deck - any idea of trying to maintain this or do that is overcome by the weight.


Start with 80kg 5x5 and add 5kg a week and go from there, will keep you busy for a few months.

Or do coan deadlift routine, stick a 150 predicted max in and follow


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

First.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Mr Beefy said:


> Start with 80kg 5x5 and add 5kg a week and go from there, will keep you busy for a few months.


That's what I've effectively just done buddy - started with Starting Strength in August and began my dead lift life at 60kg and added 2.5kg to the bar each session - as you say, kept me busy since August and sees me where I am now - shooting ear wax bullets out at 147.5kg


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## naturalun (Mar 21, 2014)

No way could I do DL at end itd be major fail lol.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

I used to do them first on back day, worked my way up to 170kg with belt and straps.

Completely changed routine and i now do them at the end. Minus the straps and belt.

I do 100kg x 10/12 as a warm up

140kg x 4/5 (aiming for 6)

160kg x 1 (failed)

It's also worth noting i no longer do rapid up and drop down, i pull it up, lower to my shins and then back up again. Dorian yates really pushes this and tbf i've had a much better workout doing this.

Did nearly black out on monday though


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## John. (Jun 24, 2013)

I always train deadlifts last as that's how it would fall in a PL meet. Most of my sessions will involve a squat, a press and a pull.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> You could go for it again next week then try going up in weight


Nailed 147.5kg last night - proper intense, but feel they were good and consistent enough to advance to 150kg next week.

#chuffed


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Nailed 147.5kg last night - proper intense, but feel they were good and consistent enough to advance to 150kg next week.
> 
> #chuffed


Well done mate time to nail the 150kg next week


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> Well done mate time to nail the 150kg next week


I think doing singles from above 100kg on the warm ups left enough in the tank. 

Amazing how pathetic you feel though trying to do dumbbell 'kettle' rows straight after! :lol:


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