# Crohns disease



## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

Hi I suffer from Crohn's disease, just wondering if anyone else out there has the same problem as me when building muscle.

I am trying to add muscle but seem to hit a wall, I eat 3500-4000kcals a day 200g protein and seem to be getting nowhere.

5ft 8

13.6st

20% bf ish

Is my body not using all the nutrients from the food I am eatting and sh*tting them out?

anyone out there with crohns have this problem?

Am I best just giving up and leaning up?

any help appricated


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

I have had problems of late with IBS, glad I havnt got crohns though, I am taking probiotics and colostrum, have you looked in to Betaine, there is a lot of info on youtube, this might help you?


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

look up HGH for crohns...


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## Clone (Oct 4, 2014)

I have crohn's but have to admit I am very unlucky to not suffer anywhere near as badly with it as some.

I would look into your b12 levels as this may help with the absorption of nutrients, it certainly makes me feel like I can eat and digest more solid food.

I eat very little finer in my diet if that's any use to you.

Stick with it buddy. Some gain weight easier than others, if your not one of them, but more effort in


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## Clone (Oct 4, 2014)

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for pointing it out


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

Will look into b12 & Betaine cheers. As for hgh I can't afford that


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## Scars (Dec 11, 2013)

I have Crohn's and have the same problem, it's ****e.

Spent the most part of this year in and out of A and E having blood transfusions from the amount of blood lost, weight plummeting and having to be put on high doses of prednisolone which pretty much eats muscle.

It's a struggle only just starting back in the gym next week after months of being ridiculously ill I might try taking digestive enzymes before I eat see if that helps.


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

When I feel a flare starting I drop onto a no carb diet, getting a lot of kcals from oils and either protein from fish or chicken & whey. I find that controls the flare aswell as smoking abit of weed slows your digestive system down and eases the pain. Hope that helps you Tom in controlling your fare next time


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## Scars (Dec 11, 2013)

I've only just come off a low residue diet so had plenty of fish and chicken etc. Cheers mate, How long do your flares last?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

I have crohns.

You need to find what foods work for you and stick with them. You need to be medication free, especially corticosteroids. You need to persevere.

Your height, weight and bodyfat the calories seem about right for maintaining weight. Eg you ain't eating enough.

I'm surprised at the high body fat with crohns though. Have you spent a long time in prednisolone? When I flare the fat melts off me. I usually drop 5-8lbs a week easily initially.

Are you med free atm?


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

The best diet for me where I feel my best with little bloat wind and trips to the toilet is very low carb though I find it hard to put on muscle without the carbs & kcals. But carbs are deffo give me the horrible crohns bloat if I eat a lot, I tend to get most my kcals from shakes at the moment as I find eatting a lot of solid food hard.

I am prescribed azathiorpin but don't take it, not had a serious flare for about 1 1/2 years now which I took remicade no prednisone since then. So you'd recommend trying to eat more bensif or taking the low carb approach where I feel my best?


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

Tom: I can feel it coming on the constant stomach ache and then that's when I do no carb and smoke a little weed


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

icecream said:


> The best diet for me where I feel my best with little bloat wind and trips to the toilet is very low carb though I find it hard to put on muscle without the carbs & kcals. But carbs are deffo give me the horrible crohns bloat if I eat a lot, I tend to get most my kcals from shakes at the moment as I find eatting a lot of solid food hard.
> 
> I am prescribed azathiorpin but don't take it, not had a serious flare for about 1 1/2 years now which I took remicade no prednisone since then. So you'd recommend trying to eat more bensif or taking the low carb approach where I feel my best?


Which carbs were you eating?

Crohns has a greater affect on the GI tract than just inflammation and ulceration sadly. The villi can get damaged and fibre can really aggravate the small and large bowel. It can affect stomach acidity and thus enzymes. Fructose then becomes a problem.

So basically fruit, potato, simple sugars and fruit juices all become s problem. Yeast too. Gluten and wheat can be come an issue for some and generally most sufferers are better avoiding it. Have you ever tried making either basmati, jasmine or long grain rice your only carb source? Rice flours good too if you fancy a little pancake or something.

Avoid red meat. Avoid nuts (fibre). Are you ok with lactose?

Are you taking any probiotics?

I would probably focus on getting lean first. Use that period to workout your foods. When you go to a basic diet it's boring as hell so may as well use it to cut down. 10-12 weeks. Tbh Iv not had to because when I flare I drop weight so damn fast. Hyperthyroid too sadly.

What you may also have is a malabsorption issue due to food choices. It's quite possible.


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

Oats, rice, odd tortilla when I'm bored of rice. Guessing all the fibre in the oats is giving me the bloat.

I don't eat much beef as it sends me straight to the loo. Nuts I love, but these are bad for people with crohns because of the fibre?

No probiotics, used to have yakult but read somewhere it wasn't any good. Milk I'm ok with in moderation


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

how do you guys know you've got chrones? My old mans got it bad style, had to have part of his intestine removed, my mums also celiac so I would hazard a guess im gunna have some sort of issue, pretty much always bloated with a burning stomach, and if I slightly stray from a diet of 3000kals +/day I drastically drop weight which isn't good at only 12st 8lb. sound like chrones?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

icecream said:


> Oats, rice, odd tortilla when I'm bored of rice. Guessing all the fibre in the oats is giving me the bloat.
> 
> I don't eat much beef as it sends me straight to the loo. Nuts I love, but these are bad for people with crohns because of the fibre?
> 
> No probiotics, used to have yakult but read somewhere it wasn't any good. Milk I'm ok with in moderation


I would 100% cut the oats. Insoluble fibre causes pain and bloat from irritation for most. Soluble slows digestion which means more time irritating the digestive tract. Oats will bloat normal people anyway due to how absorbent they are.

Nuts are mostly insoluble fibre so again can cause pain (seeds and almonds etc). Cashews many are fine with.

Store bought probiotics are a bit rubbish. Kefir is great though (polish section).

If you want to try carbs go 100% rice for a week and report back. Fats from oils (cold pressed Virgin only) and fatty fish. See if that solves the bloat.

When you bloat do you get foul gas too?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

BettySwallocks said:


> how do you guys know you've got chrones? My old mans got it bad style, had to have part of his intestine removed, my mums also celiac so I would hazard a guess im gunna have some sort of issue, pretty much always bloated with a burning stomach, and if I slightly stray from a diet of 3000kals +/day I drastically drop weight which isn't good at only 12st 8lb. sound like chrones?


Diagnosed via visual methods and biopsies. Colonoscopy, gastroscopy, mri and barium follow through video capsule endoscopy. Biopsies taken during various telescopic procedures to confirm if cells are compatible with the disease. Symptoms and diagnosis via positive response to treatment. Depends on consultant.

Biopsy most effective. It can be hereditary.


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

Bensif said:


> Diagnosed via visual methods and biopsies. Colonoscopy, gastroscopy, mri and barium follow through video capsule endoscopy. Biopsies taken during various telescopic procedures to confirm if cells are compatible with the disease. Symptoms and diagnosis via positive response to treatment. Depends on consultant.
> 
> Biopsy most effective. It can be hereditary.


another thing to worry about now lol doctors going to think im hypochondriac, cheers pal im gunna go get tested for it.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

BettySwallocks said:


> another thing to worry about now lol doctors going to think im hypochondriac, cheers pal im gunna go get tested for it.


Judging by what you said, it doesn't sound like crohns. Most people are diagnosed either as a child or at pretty much bang on 25. Odd but true.

3000 calories is a cut for me and I weigh less. If my crohns flares, if I could actually manage to eat 5000 calories (can't due to vomiting and pooping) I would still lose weight. Your ability to digest and absorb food just vanishes.

People with crohns experience drastic and sudden weight loss. Debilitating pain. I would be throwing up from the pain 90% of the time. Extreme fatigue, bleeding, bouts of diarrhea and constipation. Blockages. Swelling to the point of my abdomen being absolutely rock solid, I would look 4% BF it was so distended and the remaining fat stretched into cavities I didn't know I had. Foul gas, beyond foul. Death gas. I went as far as over dosing pain killers in a bid to make it end at my worst. Not a proud moment.


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

Bensif said:


> Judging by what you said, it doesn't sound like crohns. Most people are diagnosed either as a child or at pretty much bang on 25. Odd but true.
> 
> 3000 calories is a cut for me and I weigh less. If my crohns flares, if I could actually manage to eat 5000 calories (can't due to vomiting and pooping) I would still lose weight. Your ability to digest and absorb food just vanishes.
> 
> People with crohns experience drastic and sudden weight loss. Debilitating pain. I would be throwing up from the pain 90% of the time. Extreme fatigue, bleeding, bouts of diarrhea and constipation. Blockages. Swelling to the point of my abdomen being absolutely rock solid, I would look 4% BF it was so distended and the remaining fat stretched into cavities I didn't know I had. Foul gas, beyond foul. Death gas. I went as far as over dosing pain killers in a bid to make it end at my worst. Not a proud moment.


I think i'll get checked just incase but you've put me at ease a little bit... Although I turn 25 in January haha.


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

Bensif said:


> I would 100% cut the oats. Insoluble fibre causes pain and bloat from irritation for most. Soluble slows digestion which means more time irritating the digestive tract. Oats will bloat normal people anyway due to how absorbent they are.
> 
> Nuts are mostly insoluble fibre so again can cause pain (seeds and almonds etc). Cashews many are fine with.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your advise

What about coconut oil too?

Yes have bad gas all time unless I do no carb which made me think I wasn't able to absorb all the nutrients in what I was eatting. Will try the rice only see what happens.

What do you eat for breakfast if you don't mind me asking ?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

icecream said:


> Thanks for your advise
> 
> What about coconut oil too?
> 
> ...


Bet it's fructose and sucralose causing that. Fructose being the biggest offender.

Coconut oil is brilliant for numerous reasons. My primary source of fat.

I buy kalo puffed rice cereal for cereal. Low fibre low sugar. They also do a non-whole grain one and a honey one with organic honey rather than sugar.

Either that or if I have time I make a pancake with rice flour, almond milk and one egg white.

Or rice for breakfast... Mmmm. I love rice so it's ok for me. There tonnes of options though. Isolate mixed with waxy maize starch. Gluten free pastas. I find dextrose ok too.

But yeah breakfast is normally 2 pieces of white fish, 100g kalo puffed rice, 30g raspberries, 15g organic non pasteurised honey and then I juice some carrots, spinach and cucumber with half a lemon.

On the wrong foods I couldn't eat 1800 calories. On the right foods I'm now up to 4200 and growing again.


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## icecream (Oct 10, 2013)

Big help mate awesome. I'm struggling to eat because I'm eatting the wrong stuff, all makes sense now why I'm boated, uncomfortable & not hungry feelings.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Bensif said:


> Judging by what you said, it doesn't sound like crohns. Most people are diagnosed either as a child or at pretty much bang on 25. Odd but true.
> 
> 3000 calories is a cut for me and I weigh less. If my crohns flares, if I could actually manage to eat 5000 calories (can't due to vomiting and pooping) I would still lose weight. Your ability to digest and absorb food just vanishes.
> 
> People with crohns experience drastic and sudden weight loss. Debilitating pain. I would be throwing up from the pain 90% of the time. Extreme fatigue, bleeding, bouts of diarrhea and constipation. Blockages. Swelling to the point of my abdomen being absolutely rock solid, I would look 4% BF it was so distended and the remaining fat stretched into cavities I didn't know I had. Foul gas, beyond foul. Death gas. I went as far as over dosing pain killers in a bid to make it end at my worst. Not a proud moment.


I highly suspect now I have this disese. Ive had many ongoing stomach issues. My stomach is bloated 24 hours a day. I look 6 months pregnant.

Anytime I eat fructose of sugar. My stomach feels like its goig to burst and it goes as hard as concrete. sugar is the worst thing that flares it up.

I have also had something called a (fistula) I didnt not know what it was until i looked it up. Does this sound like the disease? Ive had all these problems since I was about 27.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

andysutils said:


> I highly suspect now I have this disese. Ive had many ongoing stomach issues. My stomach is bloated 24 hours a day. I look 6 months pregnant.
> 
> Anytime I eat fructose of sugar. My stomach feels like its goig to burst and it goes as hard as concrete. sugar is the worst thing that flares it up.
> 
> I have also had something called a (fistula) I didnt not know what it was until i looked it up. Does this sound like the disease? Ive had all these problems since I was about 27.


It's not enough info and as I am not a medical professional I wouldn't want to say either way. With that said fistulas can occur in crohns sufferers but also with many other illnesses.

The bloating could be candida related, eg SIBO. It could be gluten / wheat related. It could an enzyme deficiency. It could be worms.

Get to a doctor and ask for s referral to a colorectal surgeon or gastroenterologist and ask for a colonoscopy.

If you tell you doctor you are passing blood in stool they will refer you within 2 weeks as a cancer risk but I would not advise this unless you are prepared to have a consultant shout at you after.

Expect to wait 3-6 months on the normal referral. In the mean time strip back your diet to basics and see if you can resolve it this way. No pain killers, no medication, no smoking or drinking.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Bensif said:


> It's not enough info and as I am not a medical professional I wouldn't want to say either way. With that said fistulas can occur in crohns sufferers but also with many other illnesses.
> 
> The bloating could be candida related, eg SIBO. It could be gluten / wheat related. It could an enzyme deficiency. It could be worms.
> 
> ...


It all started after I was treated for Pylori.

Been on and off with the specialists for a few months now. They did the scope thing down my throat and some bowel movement tests and checked for lactose intolerance etc.

Ive tried tons of different digestive remedies. the only two that are making a massive difference are DGL and Mastik gum. I just dont know why.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Sorry Op. I'll stop hijacking your thread now.


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## Ek247 (Oct 21, 2014)

Hi,

I my new to the forum and BodyBuilding. Only weigh 65kg and recently started lifting.

I follow a very similar routine to you when I flare up, however, I maybe able to help a bit extra with people who suffer from chrohns.

Something that has helped me a lot is making homemade yoghurt as a probiotic and protein source. Normal probiotic tablet contains between 3-10 billion "good bacteria". Home made yoghurt can contain over 100 billion "good bacteria" and has helped me a lot to keep symptoms at bay.

Thankfully I do not suffer a lot but I thought I'll share whatever might help somebody else.



Bensif said:


> I would 100% cut the oats. Insoluble fibre causes pain and bloat from irritation for most. Soluble slows digestion which means more time irritating the digestive tract. Oats will bloat normal people anyway due to how absorbent they are.
> 
> Nuts are mostly insoluble fibre so again can cause pain (seeds and almonds etc). Cashews many are fine with.
> 
> ...


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

Ek247 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I my new to the forum and BodyBuilding. Only weigh 65kg and recently started lifting.
> 
> ...


I used to do this too, have a cheap yoghurt maker but in the last few months I became almost completely lactose intolerant. No idea why! But agree, much cheaper way of getting a probiotic in.

I used to buy total greek yoghurt and use that as my starter culture, then use lactofree milk with it which reduces the lactose content. Worked quite well.


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## Ek247 (Oct 21, 2014)

Bensif said:


> I used to do this too, have a cheap yoghurt maker but in the last few months I became almost completely lactose intolerant. No idea why! But agree, much cheaper way of getting a probiotic in.
> 
> I used to buy total greek yoghurt and use that as my starter culture, then use lactofree milk with it which reduces the lactose content. Worked quite well.


Exactly how I make it, similarly though have had to start taking lactase tablets as it has become harder to digest even a little bit of lactose.

Some say age and stress contributes as a factor, oh well, we never get any younger.

Mind me asking how you keep your weight up (looking at your avatar) as I seem to eat a lot but hardly seem to gain weight.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

Ek247 said:


> Exactly how I make it, similarly though have had to start taking lactase tablets as it has become harder to digest even a little bit of lactose.
> 
> Some say age and stress contributes as a factor, oh well, we never get any younger.
> 
> Mind me asking how you keep your weight up (looking at your avatar) as I seem to eat a lot but hardly seem to gain weight.


I've never weighed much tbh, I'm not a heavy person on the scale, but basically as soon as I get into remission from a flare I start introducing calories from very easily digested sources.

On a flare - ensure shakes and beef isolate. Though about 12 weeks ago or so I flared and dropped 15lbs in 2.5 weeks.

But anyway, afterwards, lots of white fish, overcooked basmati rice (so that it doesn't swell too much whilst it digests), green beans, EVOO and coconut oil. Once its been 3-4 weeks of good health I reintroduce chicken and turkey, a little red meat here and there, mostly slow cooked. Fibre can come up a tad, avocado, nuts, almond milk. Keep pushing the calories up. Now I am back up to 4250 per day.

I really struggle to put fat on, but I try and keep a little on me if I can incase I flare again as when I do, if I am too lean I am screwed basically. It will all be muscle that goes.

Actually thinking about it that avatar pick was mid way through my flare lol. I started looking pretty lean so I took a picture. My problem is I try to keep training which doesn't help.

Steroids help if I am being honest... to a certain degree. They have kept muscle on me for the most part and allowed me to pack weight back on quickly after. This time around the rebound from the flare was followed with HGH and Slin which also helped. Not that I advocate this, I am just being honest.


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## martyk007 (Feb 19, 2014)

Bensif said:


> I've never weighed much tbh, I'm not a heavy person on the scale, but basically as soon as I get into remission from a flare I start introducing calories from very easily digested sources.
> 
> On a flare - ensure shakes and beef isolate. Though about 12 weeks ago or so I flared and dropped 15lbs in 2.5 weeks.
> 
> ...


I'm 26 and have had IBS since i was 18. I have had a colonoscopy 18 and a sigmoidoscopy last month and both times i was told that my bowel/intestine was inflamed but nothing to worry about its just ibs. Everythime i go to the toilette i loose about a half a cup of blood due to piles, its a nighmare i don't think the doctors take it seriously anyway i'm thinking about starting a test cycle soon but i am worried it will make my symptoms worse do you think i would be ok to do the cycle?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

martyk007 said:


> I'm 26 and have had IBS since i was 18. I have had a colonoscopy 18 and a sigmoidoscopy last month and both times i was told that my bowel/intestine was inflamed but nothing to worry about its just ibs. Everythime i go to the toilette i loose about a half a cup of blood due to piles, its a nighmare i don't think the doctors take it seriously anyway i'm thinking about starting a test cycle soon but i am worried it will make my symptoms worse do you think i would be ok to do the cycle?


Ummm.... an inflamed bowel is NOT nothing to worry about. Inflammation occurs for numerous reasons, all of which should be taken seriously. Your doctor is a tool. What type of consultant did you see? Gastroenterologist or colorectal surgeon?

I can't tell you whether testosterone will or wont affect you. Oestrogen plays a key role in how inflammatory bowel disease reacts and is managed believe it or not. There are numerous studies on it. Testosterone, from clinical evidence at least, plays no direct part in it. However increased levels of testosterone will lead to increase levels of secondary hormones such as oestrogen and DHT (which can subsequently affect other hormones). You may be fine, but you first need to find out why your bowels are inflamed. This would be my primary concern. If the telescopic prodedures showed inflammation then I would presume it is limited to your large bowel and perhaps just the sigmoid and descending colon. But if the inflammation stems further, you have an issue.

Crohns, colitis and similar disease start purely as inflammation. When your GI tract remains inflamed for long periods of time it can lead to ulceration, which eventually leads to bleeding. Bleeding can lead to infection. Ulceration can lead to perforation. Ulceration can lead to scar tissue which can lead to obstructions. Your doctor needs to take it more seriously. Infact all GPs do. Their lackadaisical attitude towards bowel conditions ****es me off to no end. I would like to be able to tell them don't worry its not a big deal when they are ****ting 30 times a die and bleeding out their **** hole.


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## martyk007 (Feb 19, 2014)

Bensif said:


> Ummm.... an inflamed bowel is NOT nothing to worry about. Inflammation occurs for numerous reasons, all of which should be taken seriously. Your doctor is a tool. What type of consultant did you see? Gastroenterologist or colorectal surgeon?
> 
> I can't tell you whether testosterone will or wont affect you. Oestrogen plays a key role in how inflammatory bowel disease reacts and is managed believe it or not. There are numerous studies on it. Testosterone, from clinical evidence at least, plays no direct part in it. However increased levels of testosterone will lead to increase levels of secondary hormones such as oestrogen and DHT (which can subsequently affect other hormones). You may be fine, but you first need to find out why your bowels are inflamed. This would be my primary concern. If the telescopic prodedures showed inflammation then I would presume it is limited to your large bowel and perhaps just the sigmoid and descending colon. But if the inflammation stems further, you have an issue.
> 
> Crohns, colitis and similar disease start purely as inflammation. When your GI tract remains inflamed for long periods of time it can lead to ulceration, which eventually leads to bleeding. Bleeding can lead to infection. Ulceration can lead to perforation. Ulceration can lead to scar tissue which can lead to obstructions. Your doctor needs to take it more seriously. Infact all GPs do. Their lackadaisical attitude towards bowel conditions ****es me off to no end. I would like to be able to tell them don't worry its not a big deal when they are ****ting 30 times a die and bleeding out their **** hole.


Not sure what type of specialist it was but the unit was called the rectal bleeding unit, believe it or not the gp who i originally went to when i was 18 told me "try not to think about it" as if i was making the whole thing up and it was in my head. I am a bit paranoid about the whole thing as bowel cancer is in my family. I'm going to the gp tomorrow so i will see what she says or offers to do next. Thanks for your response.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

martyk007 said:


> Not sure what type of specialist it was but the unit was called the rectal bleeding unit, believe it or not the gp who i originally went to when i was 18 told me "try not to think about it" as if i was making the whole thing up and it was in my head. I am a bit paranoid about the whole thing as bowel cancer is in my family. I'm going to the gp tomorrow so i will see what she says or offers to do next. Thanks for your response.


OK rectal bleeding means you go on the cancer risk waiting list to see a colorectal surgeon. It sounds like that's who you saw before. They aren't interested in IBD as such, as their speciality is colorectal surgery. Not to say they don't operate on IBD patients but they don't tend to diagnose. His job is to look at the sigmoid colon primarily and see if you have bowel or possibly prostate cancer.

If you go back to your GP you have two options;

Ask to be referred back for rectal bleeding - this will put you back in the colorectal surgeons office and probably won't get you an answer but you will get seen sooner

Ask to be referred to a GASTROENTEROLOGIST - this is who you need to see

FYI - IBD patients are at high risk of bowel cancer, myself included. So that may explain the history of bowel cancer in your family. Your GP needs to pull his / her finger out. If they try to fob you off, do not get out of chair. Say I am sorry, but you have a job to do. I want to be reffered and 'I HAVE THE RIGHT TO REQUEST A REFERRAL TO ANY HOSPITAL I WANT'. This is 100% true. It is your right. GPs don't like doing it but they have to adhere.

If you are in or near to London - The Royal London Whitechapel or St. Marks Horrow. IF the former, Dr. Colin Ainley is a genius and an incredibly nice man.


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## mike griffiths (Nov 13, 2014)

h



icecream said:


> Hi I suffer from Crohn's disease, just wondering if anyone else out there has the same problem as me when building muscle.
> 
> I am trying to add muscle but seem to hit a wall, I eat 3500-4000kcals a day 200g protein and seem to be getting nowhere.
> 
> ...


hi mate I have crohns when im dieting with oats chicken rice potato sweet potato and about 6 litres of water a day I don't need to take any of my meds


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