# Dirty bulk vs Lean bulk



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

*Dirty bulk vs Lean bulk*​
*What works better for you?*


Dirty
1442.42%
Lean
1957.58%


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

What do you do and what works best for you?

When I was natty I used to dirty bulk and after I'd cut I'd gained well.This last year I've bean trying to keep lean and the last 6 weeks lean bulking.........still the same weight.

I'm a 'hardgainer' (I know I know,they don't exist) but you know what I mean. I'm gonna go back to dirty bulking,knowing I cut very easily

What's your preference?

Poll attached


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## Carlsandman (Aug 30, 2012)

3 weeks into first lean bulk, gained 1kg, no visible fat. If it's gonna be this slow may revert to dirty again!,


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

People still get fat on a "clean" bulk. Control excess calories.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Started off clean but now started to become dirty. Got too many cals to get through now lol


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Carlsandman said:


> 3 weeks into first lean bulk, gained 1kg, no visible fat. If it's gonna be this slow may revert to dirty again!,


I've been eating between 4100 and 5000 cals at 200lbs for 5 weeks...........no gains


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## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

I'm like you @FelonE, I struggle to put weight on - I've found it best to dirty bulk and then cut afterwards as I seem to lose weight much easier than putting it on


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> People still get fat on a "clean" bulk. Control excess calories.


After a few cycles the past year bulking/cutting trying to stay lean I'm the same weight I was last year lol


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## Info Junkie (Nov 22, 2013)

Leaning bulking at moment up the cals every week or two , most importantly i feel healthy and my CV health is much better when the waist etc is still tight ,

you didn't are arnie and that era get out of shape a bit of water and look softer ya but still looked athletic an healthy


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## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

For sanity reasons i'd say dirty but I know clean is the way to go really.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Goosh said:


> I'm like you @FelonE, I struggle to put weight on - I've found it best to dirty bulk and then cut afterwards as I seem to lose weight much easier than putting it on


Same mate. I think if you know you can cut easily then fvck it. Long bulk and quick hard cut for me now.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> After a few cycles the past year bulking/cutting trying to stay lean I'm the same weight I was last year lol


its called genetics mate.


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## Carlsandman (Aug 30, 2012)

FelonE said:


> I've been eating between 4100 and 5000 cals at 200lbs for 5 weeks...........no gains


I'm on 500 over maint because really don't wanna gain any fat, was sitting at 87kg when I started, gained 1.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> its called genetics mate.


Dunno if it's a good or bad thing tbh


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

zyphy said:


> Started off clean but now started to become dirty. Got too many cals to get through now lol


Lol I still eat properly just top it up for the cals


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I've been eating between 4100 and 5000 cals at 200lbs for 5 weeks...........no gains


I probably eat about 3000 a day tops, some days not even any where near that.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Gaining muscle is much harder than losing fat


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I probably eat about 3000 a day tops, some days not even any where near that.


Some people say they wish they could eat like I do and not get fat as fvck but I wish I could gain on 3000


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> Some people say they wish they could eat like I do and not get fat as fvck but I wish I could gain on 3000


You will when you are banzi's age


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> You will when you are banzi's age


I can't see it lol



Dark sim said:


> Gaining muscle is much harder than losing fat


Damn straight sister


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

If i would ever bulk, it wouldn't go above 500 calories over my maintenance. But that's just me. However, i have seen people growing nicely even at more than 1000 calories over their maintenance. Everyone has different metabolic rates and of course, genes too


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dirty but sensible, no more than 500 over maintenance.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

FelonE said:


> What do you do and what works best for you?
> 
> When I was natty I used to dirty bulk and after I'd cut I'd gained well.This last year I've bean trying to keep lean and the last 6 weeks lean bulking.........still the same weight.
> 
> ...


Just for clarity, how are we defining dirty bulking and lean bulking?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

dtlv said:


> Just for clarity, how are we defining dirty bulking and lean bulking?


Eating whatever and not worrying about bodyfat and bulking while trying to stay lean,my definition anyway


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I clean bulk from a calorie point of view, but I guess you'd say dirty in terms of food choices are I follow a flexible dieting approach.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

how much ovr maintenance is a 'dirty bulk', and are we talking bout mostly clean foods?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I do better on a lean bulking approach, mainly because I prefer how I look on a lean bulk to a stuff your face bulk, and gain similar amounts of lean muscle with either approach.

There was a good study recently that actually looked at muscle gains in bulking. The study put elite athletes into two groups, one with weight training and without any effort to raise calories other than to eat to appetite, versus weight training and a traditional 500kcal excess forced bulk.

The results showed that although the 500kcal surplus bulkers gained more weight, the lean gains were exactly the same between groups, even despite the fact that some of the non-bulking group barely ate 50kcals above maintenance. Strength gains for resistance training were also the same in both groups, but sprinting ability declined significantly in the 500kcal excess group and remained the same in the normal eaters. They weren't bodybuilders, but they were elite athletes with above average muscle mass, so it is a fairly relevant population.

.http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17461391.2011.643923


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

dtlv said:


> I do better on a lean bulking approach, mainly because I prefer how I look on a lean bulk to a stuff your face bulk, and gain similar amounts of lean muscle with either approach.
> 
> There was a good study recently that actually looked at muscle gains in bulking. The study put elite athletes into two groups, one with weight training and without any effort to raise calories other than to eat to appetite, versus weight training and a traditional 500kcal excess forced bulk.
> 
> ...


Were they natural or not?


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

This is my first bulk. Probably eating 500 kcal over maintenance, some days a little more. Losing the squinted eyes, poorly lit room, tanned, blurry abs has been a nightmare though I'm not sure whether it's because I've been eating a lot of carbs again.

Daily food consists of the usual; Eggs, Tuna, Sweet Potato, Cottage Cheese, Chicken, Rice, Peanuts... But also a bit of crap with the Mrs especially in the evening, all logged of course.

I have been thinking of dropping carbs but keeping calories the same and see how my workouts suffer (if they do at all?) just to stay less bloated looking.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Were they natural or not?


Natural.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> What do you do and what works best for you?
> 
> When I was natty I used to dirty bulk and after I'd cut I'd gained well.This last year I've bean trying to keep lean and the last 6 weeks lean bulking.........still the same weight.
> 
> ...


I have never know anybody who changes there mind like you :lol: get back on a cycle and smash the Cals and grow mother ****er... None of this 6 week bulk 6 week cut! Do a years bulking :thumb: youll put 110% into whatever you do mate so you'll smash it!


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> I have never know anybody who changes there mind like you  get back on a cycle and smash the Cals and grow mother ****er... None of this 6 week bulk 6 week cut! Do a years bulking :thumb: youll put 110% into whatever you do mate so you'll smash it!


The reason I change my mind is because I think right I'll lean bulk and minimise fat but then don't gain. Then I think I'll pile the food in but then I don't like getting fat lol.

End of the month I'm gonna jump on


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

hmm tough call. I feel the dirty bulk i get bigger and stronger quicker - which is a plus as i love food. (currently following this)

but when cutting im not looking to get under 10% bf just a nice set abs to go on holiday so i just add some cardio and enjoy my treats when i want. obv i will cut back but never restrict myself..

I dont and never have tracked macros before - too confusing lol


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm attempting a lean bulk, whenever I try all out bulking the amount of food is too much for me and I start to feel bloated and sick all the time within 10 days or so.

From past experience I can maintain my weight on approx 2600 cals but I can still maintain on around 3300 (or so it seems) I don't see visible fat gain or scales moving until about 3700.

So I'm going to attempt the higher end of what seems to be my maintenance and see if progress still gets made. I'd rather stay leanish and still make slight gains than feeling bloated and sick all the time.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Thing is with 'lean' bulking so say not much over maintenance is that we never really know what our maintenance is cos activity levels change daily.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Thing is with 'lean' bulking so say not much over maintenance is that we never really know what our maintenance is cos activity levels change daily.


If you're making progress in the gym and your body weight is slowly going up but your aren't gaining much fat, this is lean bulking. To me at least.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you're making progress in the gym and your body weight is slowly going up but your aren't gaining much fat, this is lean bulking. To me at least.


Regardless of 'clean' foods or whatever foods?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> Regardless of 'clean' foods or whatever foods?


Yes, as long as fat is kept in check


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Yes, as long as fat is kept in check


Do you do dirty or lean?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Regardless of 'clean' foods or whatever foods?


I think lean bulking always has to mean bulking with little fat gain. It's when people start talking about CLEAN bulking that I think it gets ambiguous, as some mean limited fat gain, some mean eating only 'clean' foods, and some mean both!


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> I think lean bulking always has to mean bulking with little fat gain. It's when people start talking about CLEAN bulking that I think it gets ambiguous, as some mean limited fat gain, some mean eating only 'clean' foods, and some mean both!


Agree


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> Do you do dirty or lean?


I don't like them terms, often misinterpreted, especially lean bulk. Dirty bulk to most means you will eat whatever the fk you want, ultimately getting too fat.

I bulk with an aim of 1-2lb gain every week, especially during a blast. On a cruise I am happy with 1lb a week, even happy to hold weight.

Does that fall within lean bulk? I'm not sure, and I don't care. I am circa 18% bf, which is top end of fat % for a bulk imo and others, so I am hoping not to get any fatter lol.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> I don't like them terms, often misinterpreted, especially lean bulk. Dirty bulk to most means you will eat whatever the fk you want, ultimately getting too fat.
> 
> I bulk with an aim of 1-2lb gain every week, especially during a blast. On a cruise I am happy with 1lb a week, even happy to hold weight.
> 
> Does that fall within lean bulk? I'm not sure, and I don't care. I am circa 18% bf, which is top end of fat % for a bulk imo and others, so I am hoping not to get any fatter lol.


Fatty lol

To me a dirty bulk is not worrying about getting fat,regardless of 'clean' or 'dirty' foods


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm on a constant bulk AKA fat [email protected] Fvcks given zero. Fight me.


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## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> The reason I change my mind is because I think right I'll lean bulk and minimise fat but then don't gain. Then I think I'll pile the food in but then I don't like getting fat lol.
> 
> End of the month I'm gonna jump on


Amen brother!


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

EpicSquats said:


> I'm on a constant bulk AKA fat [email protected] Fvcks given zero. Fight me.


Can't we just hug it out?

Come here you......


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes said:


> Were they natural or not?


It seems very likely they were natty because rate of gain was similar to all people and within the rate you'd expect for natural gains - if they were using then it would be a pretty remarkable coincidence that all 39 people were at the same stage of a cycle responding exactly the same way and screening failed to spot it. Normally when there's a test like this and a sted user participates they are screened out quickly due to an anomalous response.


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## walton21 (Aug 11, 2008)

I tried lean bulking on 4500 cal and I dont know how much I lost weight and size :/

So I went back to dirty bulking and shoved in a dbol cycle and gained over a stone only lost 4lb after pct .

About to do a test, bold and anavar cycle and dirty bulk, but by dirty bulk I do tend to still go for low fat and stay away from take aways etc everything else is fair game I just never stop eating lol


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

FelonE said:


> I've been eating between 4100 and 5000 cals at 200lbs for 5 weeks...........no gains


I have the same curse, I only gain when I add a LOT of kcal, overeating + busting my ass in the gym or no weight increase, and even then if I have a bad night or something similar I lose a ton of weight... Which sucks like a b*tch


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

I eat what I like and enjoy eating all kind of foods,,, f**k counting macros for every meal

then I diet for 6 weeks and loads of clenbuterol :whistling:


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

FelonE said:


> Eating whatever and not worrying about bodyfat and bulking while trying to stay lean,my definition anyway


This is me. Been doing it for the past 30 years. I find the staying lean part difficult to do though lol.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

FelonE said:


> I've been eating between 4100 and 5000 cals at 200lbs for 5 weeks...........no gains


must be bunk chicken breasts


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> must be bunk chicken breasts


Have to email my source


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## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

Providing adequate training and protein, would a surplus of 500 calories a day from either a "clean" or "dirty" bulk not produce the same results? Same as for cutting?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

safc49 said:


> Providing adequate training and protein, would a surplus of 500 calories a day from either a "clean" or "dirty" bulk not produce the same results? Same as for cutting?


Yes imo


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

safc49 said:


> Providing adequate training and protein, would a surplus of 500 calories a day from either a "clean" or "dirty" bulk not produce the same results? Same as for cutting?


Bulking yes, cutting, up to a point.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> I've been eating between 4100 and 5000 cals at 200lbs for 5 weeks...........no gains


when I was at my biggest I stopped gaining weight at 6000+ cals a day. Was fu**ing bollox lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Bulking yes, cutting, up to a point.


I like this answer


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> when I was at my biggest I stopped gaining weight at 6000+ cals a day. Was fu**ing bollox lol


I gurantee you didnt eat 6000 cals every day.

You are a vegetarian FFS.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I gurantee you didnt eat 6000 cals every day.
> 
> You are a vegetarian FFS.


 Surely eating very high calories is about eating lots of carbs and fat? Why would being veggie make this hard?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> when I was at my biggest I stopped gaining weight at 6000+ cals a day. Was fu**ing bollox lol


Special metabolism syndrome


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Surely eating very high calories is about eating lots of carbs and fat? Why would being veggie make this hard?


Because you would be bloated all the time, high fats from oils which is pretty much a veggies only option would make you ill.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Because you would be bloated all the time, high fats from oils which is pretty much a veggies only option would make you ill.


You can't be suggesting it's easier to hit 6000 kcal per day by eating lots of meat though? The whole point of your cutting approach is the satiating effect of meat (protein) isn't it?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> You can't be suggesting it's easier to hit 6000 kcal per day by eating lots of meat though? The whole point of your cutting approach is the satiating effect of meat (protein) isn't it?


a mixture of foods, junk food for example is better when bulking, easy to eat shitty junk, most vegetarians cant eat junk due to animal fats and such like.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

banzi said:


> I gurantee you didnt eat 6000 cals every day.
> 
> You are a vegetarian FFS.


I'm pretty sure he's on about when he wasn't a veggie. He used to eat KFC, McDonald's etc for breakfast lunch and dinner lol

Now he's on that tofu and lentils hype. Used to really like his 'ain't no bulk like a Tekkers bulk' journal.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Tom90 said:


> I'm pretty sure he's on about when he wasn't a veggie. He used to eat KFC, McDonald's etc for breakfast lunch and dinner lol
> 
> Now he's on that tofu and lentils hype. Used to really like his 'ain't no bulk like a Tekkers bulk' journal.


he could still do to lose a few pounds.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

banzi said:


> a mixture of foods, junk food for example is better when bulking, easy to eat shitty junk, most vegetarians cant eat junk due to animal fats and such like.


I've never looked at the type of fat used in 'junk' I suppose, although I'd have thought a fair bit used vegetable fat to be honest. It will depend what foods a particularly veggie rules out too of course. I see where you're coming from though.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I've never looked at the type of fat used in 'junk' I suppose, although I'd have thought a fair bit used vegetable fat to be honest. It will depend what foods a particularly veggie rules out too of course. I see where you're coming from though.


Im thinking of the anal tree hugging veggies, not the "If it fits my mood" types


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

banzi said:


> Im thinking of the anal tree hugging veggies, not the "If it fits my mood" types


I was more thinking some will eat dairy for example.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I was more thinking some will eat dairy for example.


Some people think they are vegetarian as long as they dont eat sausages.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

maybe your just maxed out atm.,in a few months youl start gaining again..this is the time where diet and good nutrition starts

to come into play..you have to ramp things up a notch or stay the same..


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Most cakes and biscuits seem to be veggie friendly by the looks of. It would be easier to hit 6000 kcal if cheesecake and and cheese were on the menu though, at least for me!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Most cakes and biscuits seem to be veggie friendly by the looks of. It would be easier to hit 6000 kcal if cheesecake and and cheese were on the menu though, at least for me!


6000 cals a day isnt easy, maybe a few days, then you are going to get clogged up.

I doubt many people are able to eat that much consistently.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

banzi said:


> 6000 cals a day isnt easy, maybe a few days, then you are going to get clogged up.
> 
> I doubt many people are able to eat that much consistently.


Don't get me wrong, I seriously doubt I could do it, at least for long.


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## Artgg (Dec 29, 2014)

Just want to share my expirience with both bulks.

After couple of months going gym I start track calories no macros yet well I did count protein so my cals was ~4000 I was eating pasta and chicken before gym protein bars, straight after gym banana prot shake and subway almost every work out and then it was 3 more meals with toppings like cheese, sugar on porridge and all kinds I gain f**k all just get bloated as f**k my face was puffy and I had belly fat wich looked disgrace.

Now I understand why my metabolism wasnt ready and I was working 10 hours on nights, bad sleep, stress.

Lean bulk, I start eat clean food no sugar no coffee tracking only macros and I indeed see a great results by spiking our sugar levels you suppresing somathropin levels and raising bad cholesterol thats a no no to muscle grow.

So I choose to eat clean and my calories pribably fine if I have results.

Thats all )


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

just drink a liter of vegitable oil your up at 8000 cals


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## lachu543 (Dec 2, 2013)

I think age and our training experience play a big role. Look at competitors, the best bodybuilders; almost all of them when they were 18-25 years old were trying to build foundation ( i mean as much as possible muscles ). They were bloated, fatty. It's the best age to grow, the best insulin sensitivity, body can utuilize a lot of food, metabolism is like very good machine etc. so they were eating a lot of calories.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Most cakes and biscuits seem to be veggie friendly by the looks of. It would be easier to hit 6000 kcal if cheesecake and and cheese were on the menu though, at least for me!


Packet of Rich Tea (300g) is around 1500 cals and I can eat that before brekkie


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> 6000 cals a day isnt easy, maybe a few days, then you are going to get clogged up.
> 
> I doubt many people are able to eat that much consistently.


What isn't easy for some is easy for others


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

FelonE said:


> What isn't easy for some is easy for others


very easy lols


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> What isn't easy for some is easy for others


How long have you consistantly eaten in excess of 6000 cals for and I mean every day?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> How long have you consistantly eaten in excess of 6000 cals for and I mean every day?


6 weeks. Up to 8000 cals


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

banzi said:


> How long have you consistantly eaten in excess of 6000 cals for and I mean every day?


i used to eat 9000 cals when i was a teenager or i put s**t on


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

toxyuk said:


> i used to eat 9000 cals when i was a teenager or i put s**t on


I doubt it.

What makes your metabolism so special?


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

10 big macs your up at 5080 cals


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

toxyuk said:


> 10 big macs your up at 5080 cals


goodnight sweet lipids


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

toxyuk said:


> 10 big macs your up at 5080 cals


and try eating 10 a day. every day.


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

banzi said:


> and try eating 10 a day. every day.


no problem id buy some day before so i can have 3 at breakfast 3 at lunch and 3 at tea time 1 for supper and still have my protien shakes mixed with fuctose and double cream and vegitable oil inbetween

hahaha lols


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

toxyuk said:


> no problem id buy some day before so i can have 3 at breakfast 3 at lunch and 3 at tea time 1 for supper and still have my protien shakes mixed with fuctose and double cream and vegitable oil inbetween
> 
> hahaha lols


Metabolisms are pretty much the same, not much variance on metabolism speeds in reality.

People who say I can eat what i like and not gain weight tend to not overeat.

People who claim they just pile weight on despite not eating a lot are usually greedy f**ks.


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

banzi said:


> Metabolisms are pretty much the same, not much variance on metabolism speeds in reality.
> 
> People who say I can eat what i like and not gain weight tend to not overeat.
> 
> People who claim they just pile weight on despite not eating a lot are usually greedy f**ks.


not sure i agree up to the age of 21 i could eat anything and not put on weight that why i had to eat very very high calorie shakes to see results. after that i started to eat more normal just three meals a day and slowly put on weight but of coarse i wasnt training 6 days a week but i had a physical job. so your saying age as nothing to do with your metabolism ? just curious )))


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Metabolisms are pretty much the same, not much variance on metabolism speeds in reality.


Although BMR doesn't vary as much as many think, TDEE can vary a lot, based on size and activity levels.

The more important factor in the current discussion though is how much food someone can eat and digest, which I would suggest does vary significantly between individuals.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

My bmr is around 1800. If I factor a high activity level my maintenance cals are put at 3600 which is the same as my heart rate monitor says I burn but......if I eat 3600 I lose weight daily.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FelonE said:


> My bmr is around 1800. If I factor a high activity level my maintenance cals are put at 3600 which is the same as my heart rate monitor says I burn but......if I eat 3600 I lose weight daily.


That just means the calculation/approximation is wrong somewhere though. Bear in mind that your BMR isn't constant too. It will drop when in a prolonged calorie deficit, but also increase during a prolonged period of overfeeding. Some people adapt more than others in this regard.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> That just means the calculation/approximation is wrong somewhere though. Bear in mind that your BMR isn't constant too. It will drop when in a prolonged calorie deficit, but also increase during a prolonged period of overfeeding. Some people adapt more than others in this regard.


What about the calories burnt according to heart rate? That should be what I'd need to maintain


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> That just means the calculation/approximation is wrong somewhere though. Bear in mind that your BMR isn't constant too. It will drop when in a prolonged calorie deficit, but also increase during a prolonged period of overfeeding. Some people adapt more than others in this regard.


Just because you put in x amount of cals doesn't mean the body uses/stores x amount of cals

Faeces has calories.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FelonE said:


> What about the calories burnt according to heart rate? That should be what I'd need to maintain


I honestly have no idea how accurate that sort of thing is. A fitter person will have a lower heart rate doing the same work as someone less fit for example, how is this accounted for? The bottom line though is that if you lose weight your TDEE must be lower than you think it is.

I should partly have said NEAT above rather than just BMR actually, but the result is the same.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> I honestly have no idea how accurate that sort of thing is. A fitter person will have a lower heart rate doing the same work as someone less fit for example, how is this accounted for? The bottom line though is that if you lose weight your TDEE must be lower than you think it is.
> 
> I should have said NEAT above rather than BMR actually, but the result is the same.


Surely if I'm losing weight my tdee is higher than i think it is


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FelonE said:


> Surely if I'm losing weight my tdee is higher than i think it is


Oops, yes, that's what I meant.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Oops, yes, that's what I meant.


Lol I was questioning myself then


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> I gurantee you didnt eat 6000 cals every day.
> 
> You are a vegetarian FFS.


right... So all calories come from meat? Lol.

I thought you had smarts when it came to nutrition and training?

2 veggie sausage sandwiches with burgen bread has almost 900 cals and 66g of protein.

And you are right, I didn't eat 6000 every day, most of the time I ate nearer 6500.

You are obviously unaware of the infamous Tekkers bulk.

Somebody please aware banzi


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> right... So all calories come from meat? Lol.
> 
> I thought you had smarts when it came to nutrition and training?
> 
> ...


Yes, because everything people write on the internet is true.


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

banzi said:


> Just because you put in x amount of cals doesn't mean the body uses/stores x amount of cals
> 
> Faeces has calories.


fcuk sake bazi you cant write that, @ReissDench will be alaskan pipelining in college


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> Yes, because everything people write on the internet is true.


i never wrote my diet. I showed it with pictures, many many times.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> i never wrote my diet. I showed it with pictures, many many times.


I ate this today


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> I ate this today


you don't cook your noodles?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

> Surely if I'm losing weight my tdee is higher than i think it is


How about changing your high volume workout with somewhat like short and intense workout without changing your calorie at first?, I think if things goes as i am seeing, you may need not to eat thousands number of calories for gaining. Don't forget, one should not try to eat the maximum amount of calories for gaining, eating less or optimal food intake has it's own benefits on general health.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> How about changing your high volume workout with somewhat like short and intense workout without changing your calorie at first?, I think if things goes as i am seeing, you may need not to eat thousands number of calories for gaining. Don't forget, one should not try to eat the maximum amount of calories for gaining, eating less or optimal food intake has it's own benefits on general health.


I like training the way I do, I just have to eat more. Put on 2lbs this week so it's ok.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

> I like training the way I do, I just have to eat more. Put on 2lbs this week so it's ok.


Your choice


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Your choice


I like eating lol


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## Kabz r34 (Aug 15, 2013)

What's the difference in clean bulk and dirty bulk? Is it the food choice or cals


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Kabz r34 said:


> What's the difference in clean bulk and dirty bulk? Is it the food choice or cals


 Calories...


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Frandeman said:


> Calories...


I'd have said food choice, calories would be recomp vs lean bulk vs full on bulk (often referred to as dirty bulk because of food being dirty to get cals in if you choose to go that way)

my take is oats, whey, non manufactured/non processed food for clean 5000 cals for example vs 5000 cals of whatever you like, Macy's, kfc, m+m's cake etc providing protein requirements are met with both...


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

dumdum said:


> I'd have said food choice, calories would be recomp vs lean bulk vs full on bulk (often referred to as dirty bulk because of food being dirty to get cals in if you choose to go that way)
> 
> my take is oats, whey, non manufactured/non processed food for clean 5000 cals for example vs 5000 cals of whatever you like, Macy's, kfc, m+m's cake etc providing protein requirements are met with both...


You got a point....

Mine its if i eat 2000 calories of s**t...

Reaching my macro i loose weight

If i eat 4000 calories of clean food i and reach macros put weight.

I still think calories


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

For the purposes of the poll in this thread, the definition was/is re. controlling fat gain (and therefore calories).

Edit: note that the choices are dirty vs lean, not clean.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> For the purposes of the poll in this thread, the definition was/is re. controlling fat gain (and therefore calories).
> 
> Edit: note that the choices are dirty vs _lean_, not clean.


Exactly.

Dirty being going all out and fvck the fat gains.

Lean being minimising fat gains


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