# A Basic Compound Routine For 'Beginners'



## Tall

Had a number of "Can you check my routine threads" on here recently, I think alot of people on here are in agreement on how to train, so I thought I'd fire this up as a reference for anyone who's recently started training / looking for a change in training / hit a plateau etc.

This is a general strength routine. Nothing fancy. No fancy isolation work.

*N.B.* This routine is not designed for absolute beginners who have never set foot in the gym before. 3 months following a full body routine to acclimatise the body to the stress you will be placing on it is advised.

*P.S.* If you have never Squatted and Deadlifted before you must get someone to show you correct form.

*Rep Range *- I don't beleive this is hugely crucial. You can make progress on any rep range, but the ones I'll suggest are:

5x5 - 5 sets of 5 reps (Starr, Park, Ripptoe)

3x8-12 - 3 Sets, 8 to 12 Reps (Classic 'Hypertrophy' Routine)

20 Reppers - Best Suited For Squats, Deadlifts, SLDL and Chins only IMHO - 20 Reppers will need to be done Rest-Pause style as progress increases.

The assumption you know how to warm up correctly is being made here...

*Recovery*

This can be done 3 times in a 7 day period if you can recovery from it, or every 3rd day.

*Bulking And Cutting*

Is this routine suitable for Bulking/Cutting? Yes, its fine for both. Training shouldn't differ when bulking or cutting. When bulking you should find that your lifts increase well each week. When cutting - well thats a different story. As you're in a calorific deficit you shouldn't expect to hit PBs or have the same level of progression as when bulking.

When cutting you may need to adjust the weights you are using in order to complete the workout. You should also ensure that you are doing the correct level of cardio and that you are dieting correctly.

*The Routine*

*Pull Day (Back and Bis)*

Deadlifts

Chins (Palms facing) or Lat Pulldowns

Rows (Palms facing if you wish)

*Legs*

Squats

SLDL

Calf Raises (Optional)

*Push Day (Chest,Tris and Shoulders)*

Bench (Flat or Incline)

Overhead Press

Dips Or Close Grip Bench Press

The above is the 'core' of a good solid workout IMHO. You should look to add in flexability work, core work, and cardio.

The above routine shouldn't take you more than 45mins - it might not look much, but if you are lifting heavy, and especially if you are doing 20 Rep Rest-Pause Deadlifts/Squats it is quite taxing.

*Progression*

You have a number of options on this front.

Linear Progression

Aim to put at least 1kg onto each lift each week - you may need to invest in your own small plates (2x 0.5kg) for this - most gyms will only have 1.25kg as their smallest plates.

So assuming you could lift 100kgs on your Deadlift, a example 8 weeks would look like this:

Week 1: 5x5 @ 100kgs

Week 2: 5x5 @ 101kgs

Week 3: 5x5 @ 102.5kgs

Week 4: 5x5 @ 103.5kgs

Week 5(1): 5x5 @ 105kgs

Week 6(2): 5x5 @ 106kgs

Week 7(3): 5x5 @ 107.5kgs

Week 8(4): 5x5 @ 108.5kgs

*N.B.* At some point your linear progression will stop. At this point you may need to back down and 'take a run up' as per cyclic progression. By this stage however you should have gained enough knowledge to understand how your body is working and adjust appropriately.

Cyclic Progression

Working in 4 week cycles build up to hitting a PB in week 4, and then drop the weight back in week 1 of the next cycle by 10% - adding "5%" or 5kgs onto the bar each week.

So assuming you could lift 100kgs on your Deadlift, a example 8 weeks would look like this:

Week 1: 5x5 @ 90kgs

Week 2: 5x5 @ 95kgs

Week 3: 5x5 @ 100kgs

Week 4: 5x5 @ 105kgs (PB)

Week 5(1): 5x5 @ 95kgs

Week 6(2): 5x5 @ 100kgs

Week 7(3): 5x5 @ 105kgs

Week 8(4): 5x5 @ 110kgs

*Recovery*

The above progress cycles assume you can go 8 weeks solid without a week off. Thats not going to be the case for some people. You may want to alter your training cycles to somewhere in the 4 to 8 week range before taking a week off, and then re-starting the training cycle at the appropriate point. I find a reset after a week off is good, so assuming someone has a 4week cycle, an example 10 weeks would look as follows(based on our 100kg deadlift):

Week 1: 5x5 @ 90kgs

Week 2: 5x5 @ 95kgs

Week 3: 5x5 @ 100kgs

Week 4: 5x5 @ 105kgs (PB)

Week 5: Week off

Week 6(1): 5x5 @ 95kgs

Week 7(2): 5x5 @ 100kgs

Week 8(3): 5x5 @ 105kgs

Week 9(4): 5x5 @ 110kgs (PB)

Week 10: Week off

Weighlifting is a simple formula:

Correct Training + Progression + Diet + Rest = Results


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## chrisj22

Very nice post indeed. Reps.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

TH&S said:


> Had a number of "Can you check my routine threads" on here recently, I think alot of people on here are in agreement on how to train, so I thought I'd fire this up as a reference for anyone who's recently started training / looking for a change in training / hit a plateau etc.
> 
> This is a general strength routine. Nothing fancy. No fancy isolation work.
> 
> *Rep Range *- I don't beleive this is hugely crucial. You can make progress on any rep range, but the ones I'll suggest are:
> 
> 5x5 - 5 sets of 5 reps (Starr, Park, Ripptoe)
> 
> 3x8-12 - 3 Sets, 8 to 12 Reps (Classic 'Hypertrophy' Routine)
> 
> 20 Reppers - Best Suited For Squats, Deadlifts, SLDL and Chins only IMHO.
> 
> The assumption you know how to warm up correctly is being made here...
> 
> *Recovery*
> 
> This can be done 3 times in a 7 day period if you can recovery from it, or every 3rd day.
> 
> *Pull Day (Back and Bis)*
> 
> Deadlifts
> 
> Chins (Palms facing) or Lat Pulldowns
> 
> Rows (Palms facing if you wish)
> 
> *Legs*
> 
> Squats
> 
> SLDL
> 
> Calf Raises (Optional)
> 
> *Push Day (Chest,Tris and Shoulders)*
> 
> Bench (Flat or Incline)
> 
> Overhead Press
> 
> Dips Or Close Grip Bench Press
> 
> The above is the 'core' of a good solid workout IMHO. You should look to add in flexability work, core work, and cardio.
> 
> Its simple really


Like the simplicity of it, one thing i have learnt is always give training a little KISS no matter what your goal (KISS = KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID or KEEP IT SHORT AND SIMPLE) this always works best along with always reverting back to basics!!!!!


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## 13stonetarget

Very similiar to what I do 

Reps


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## Robbie

Sticky??


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## Captain Hero

fairly similar to what I used to do  nice, informative post for once Tall


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## dmcc

robbiedont said:


> Sticky??


I'd second that. And not just for beginners, I've recently changed my whole routine to something not terribly unlike this as my old one was going nowhere, and I've seen improvements.


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## Robbie

I'm tempted to give 20reps a go with the squats some time, how many sets do you do??


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## Bulldozer

Saves saying it over and over and over again lol


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## Tall

robbiedont said:


> I'm tempted to give 20reps a go with the squats some time, how many sets do you do??


Warmup + 1 set of 20 reps rest - pause style.

Basically you'll hit 8-12 reps and think you are dying, take a deep breath, and then rep one out and pause, a few deep breaths amd then the next one.

Rep 20 normally takes me about 5 breaths and then all the might I can muster.


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## chrisj22

I don't dare to try 20 rep squats yet - didn't the legend himself Jesse M pass away after he had done these?

I know I'm not even lifting half the weight he is, but it's put me off totally.


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## dmcc

On the 20-rep, what does your weight compare to your 5x5?


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## Robbie

dmcc said:


> On the 20-rep, what does your weight compare to your 5x5?


Damn you, you stole my next question!


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## Tall

chrisj22 said:


> I don't dare to try 20 rep squats yet - didn't the legend himself Jesse M pass away after he had done these?
> 
> I know I'm not even lifting half the weight he is, but it's put me off totally.


Lets just say it wasn't the 20reppers that got him...


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## Tall

dmcc said:


> On the 20-rep, what does your weight compare to your 5x5?


Basically pick a weight you can do for 8-10, and then take a deep breath and rep one up. The bar stays on your shoulders all the time, keep taking deep breaths and get another one out and so on until you have your 20 reps.

You may need to sit down afterwards...

I did 90kgs for almost 30 last session (miscounted) I had in the AM. But I'd done 140kgs before...

I'll be back upto about 120kgs for 20 reps soonish I should think.


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## ah24

Good thread, pretty solid routine all I'll add is I don't think its wise for pure beginners.

Bad idea to go straight into strength training as soft tissues get stronger a lot quicker than connective tissues.....hence why quite a few new gym goers experience tendon pulls etc.

If you have a couple months training under your belt then I think this routine would be perfect to progress on to.


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## SCJP

What a load of sh1te!

Where are the kickbacks, pec-deck, wrist curls & cable finger extensions, FFS???!

How on Earth can anyone put on serious mass without the above exercises?

& don't even get me started on ear shrugs, perhaps THE most valuable exercise of all....


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## JawD

You know, when I was at school (oh so long ago), I got told off by my Maths teather for something. As I was walking away from her I got wrong again. She said she knew I was grinning as my "ears shrugged" :crazy:


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## Tall

ah24 said:


> Good thread, pretty solid routine all I'll add is I don't think its wise for pure beginners.
> 
> Bad idea to go straight into strength training as soft tissues get stronger a lot quicker than connective tissues.....hence why quite a few new gym goers experience tendon pulls etc.
> 
> If you have a couple months training under your belt then I think this routine would be perfect to progress on to.


Fair point which was why I put the "Beginners" into quotes. I will however amend the O.P.


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## Tall

BUMP Added a bit on progression


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## ah24

TH&S said:


> BUMP Added a bit on progression


Looks good mate, decent post..

Dare I say it? Repped!


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## Tall

ah24 said:


> Looks good mate, decent post..
> 
> Dare I say it? Repped!


Cheers buddy


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## Tall

Bump. Added a rider on linear progression.


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## Tall

Bump. Added some bits on recovery. Any comments?


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## Ecksarmy11

SCJP said:


> What a load of sh1te!
> 
> Where are the kickbacks, pec-deck, wrist curls & cable finger extensions, FFS???!
> 
> How on Earth can anyone put on serious mass without the above exercises?
> 
> & don't even get me started on ear shrugs, perhaps THE most valuable exercise of all....


LOL !


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## Ecksarmy11

TH&S said:


> Bump. Added some bits on recovery. Any comments?


Great thread TH&S - Rep ho' fo' sure !

Is 1 set of 20 reps enough for squats though ?


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## Tall

Ecksarmy11 said:


> Great thread TH&S - Rep ho' fo' sure !
> 
> Is 1 set of 20 reps enough for squats though ?


If done heavy enough definately.

As you progress up the weights on 20 reppers you'll need to start doing them Rest - Pause, so aim for 8-10 reps, rest (bar still on shoulders) and then crank out the reps in triples, doubles, singles etc until you reach 20.


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## Ecksarmy11

TH&S said:


> If done heavy enough definately.
> 
> As you progress up the weights on 20 reppers you'll need to start doing them Rest - Pause, so aim for 8-10 reps, rest (bar still on shoulders) and then crank out the reps in triples, doubles, singles etc until you reach 20.


I can't wait to give this a go.

When you say crank out the remaining reps in triples, doubles etc do you still perform them in a strict controlled manner or is the name of the game just to get the reps out ?


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## big

Looks good to me


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## Tall

Ecksarmy11 said:


> I can't wait to give this a go.
> 
> When you say crank out the remaining reps in triples, doubles etc do you still perform them in a strict controlled manner or is the name of the game just to get the reps out ?


As strict as possible. Anything else and you are just cheating yourself.


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## Tall

big said:


> Looks good to me


Thanks Big man.


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## irwit

Great post but would it need some shoulder work in there ? Not that Im saying it does or doesnt need it, just asking. Shoulder press on chest day or something like that ?


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## Tall

irwit said:


> Great post but would it need some shoulder work in there ? Not that Im saying it does or doesnt need it, just asking. Shoulder press on chest day or something like that ?


It does 



> *Push Day (Chest,Tris and Shoulders)*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> *Bench (Flat or Incline)
> 
> *Overhead Press*
> 
> Dips Or Close Grip Bench Press


Overhead Press is a form of Shoulder Press


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## Magic Torch

irwit said:


> Great post but would it need some shoulder work in there ? Not that Im saying it does or doesnt need it, just asking. Shoulder press on chest day or something like that ?


Overhead press on Push day mate.

Once you've seen results and start slowing gains, change the routine up a bit. Its only a framework designed to show you that you dont need to restrict yourself to once bodypart a day, rather that your body can work as a unit to great effect.

I now use a routine which is based around this but change some exercises and rep range etc to make it as I need it.


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## Tall

Magic Torch said:


> Overhead press on Push day mate.
> 
> Once you've seen results and start slowing gains, change the routine up a bit. *Its only a framework designed to show you that you dont need to restrict yourself to once bodypart a day, rather that your body can work as a unit to great effect.*
> 
> I now use a routine which is based around this but change some exercises and rep range etc to make it as I need it.


Funny you should say that...

I'm currently doing Fullbody 3x Times per week under Cookies Guidance...

I've squatted (20 reppers...) 3 workouts on the bounce and managed to progress recover...


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## Cookie

TH&S said:


> Funny you should say that...
> 
> I'm currently doing Fullbody 3x Times per week under Cookies Guidance...
> 
> *I've squatted (20 reppers...) 3 workouts on the bounce and managed to progress recover...*


*Must be the B, M & BY doing its trick... :beer1:*

*Or your just a freak...lol*


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## Tall

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> *Must be the B, M & BY doing its trick... :beer1:*
> 
> *Or your just a freak...lol*


Not forgetting the B.C. upon waking :beer1:


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## Ecksarmy11

:blowme:Any code breakers on line ?


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## Tall

Ecksarmy11 said:


> :blowme:Any code breakers on line ?


Lol. Just an in gag between Cookie and I.


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## Cookie

TH&S said:


> Lol. Just an in gag between Cookie and I.


Yeah, we know it gets responces


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## Lux

TH&S said:


> Not forgetting the B.C. upon waking :beer1:


Bowl of Cum ????????

High protein to start the day eh Tall?


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## Captain Hero

TH&S said:


> Lol. Just had a gag between Cookie and I.


GAG? Gob Ass Gob? 

 :crazy: 

back on topic yes it does look like a good routine


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## winger

Nice TH&S! 

Jesse Marunde 407x20 Squats, Click http://youtube.com/watch?v=RyyqDB6WMuI.

Tom Platz 500lb 227.5kg squat for 23 reps, Click http://youtube.com/watch?v=DjtVvYk1HWw. Very little rest.


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## Ecksarmy11

TH&S said:


> If done heavy enough definately.
> 
> As you progress up the weights on 20 reppers you'll need to start doing them Rest - Pause, so aim for 8-10 reps, rest (bar still on shoulders) and then crank out the reps in triples, doubles, singles etc until you reach 20.


Awesome.

Done this for the first time today and it f_ckin nearly killed me !

Must have taken me 3 mins for one set of 20 squats, then another 3 mins or more to get my breath back properly afterwards.

Done 2 other leg exercises after that, both at 3 sets of 12 and it felt like the best leg workout I've done in ages.


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## Cookie

Ecksarmy11 said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Done this for the first time today and it f_ckin nearly killed me !
> 
> Must have taken me 3 mins for one set of 20 squats, *then another 3 mins or more to get my breath back properly afterwards.*
> 
> *Done 2 other leg exercises after that, both at 3 sets of 12* and it felt like the best leg workout I've done in ages.


*Hope you kept moving about to stop blood pooling?*

*OVERKILL, no need for secondry exercises*


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## winger

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> *Hope you kept moving about to stop blood pooling?*
> 
> *OVERKILL, no need for secondry exercises*


I totally agree.

Hey Ecksarmy11, are you sore today?


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## shauno

lo,at 20 reppers killing someone


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## Tall

shauno said:


> lo,at 20 reppers killing someone


Que?


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## winger

chrisj22 said:


> I don't dare to try 20 rep squats yet - didn't the legend himself Jesse M pass away after he had done these?
> 
> I know I'm not even lifting half the weight he is, but it's put me off totally.





shauno said:


> lo,at 20 reppers killing someone





TH&S said:


> Que?


I shouldn't have to spoon feed you mate..lol


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## Ecksarmy11

winger said:


> I totally agree.
> 
> Hey Ecksarmy11, are you sore today?


Walking like John Wayne mate!


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## chrisj22

I've later read that he died shortly after supersetting 20 rep squats with deadlifts. And before anyone starts, I'm not naive enough to think he was just eating plenty of chicken & drinking Celltech to be as strong as he was (genetics aside) 

I do understand he may have had heart complications. I don't think steroids would have helped his condition.


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## dancemag

might seem a really obvious question, but here goes.

pull day, legs, push day, all to be performed on consecutive days, with rest approx every 3rd day. so it'd be something like

mon. pull

tues. legs

wed. rest

thurs. push

fri. legs

sat. rest

etc?

Thanks for taking the time to write it up- seems to make a lot of sense to train this way over more isolated exercises. I hear compound's the way to go.


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## winger

dancemag said:


> might seem a really obvious question, but here goes.
> 
> pull day, legs, push day, all to be performed on consecutive days, with rest approx every 3rd day. so it'd be something like
> 
> mon. pull
> 
> tues. legs
> 
> wed. rest
> 
> thurs. push
> 
> fri. legs
> 
> sat. rest
> 
> etc?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to write it up- seems to make a lot of sense to train this way over more isolated exercises. I hear compound's the way to go.


Legs twice a week, I like it.

Yes, compounds are the way to go, imo.

Bench, squats, dead lifts, military and pullups. 

Try to stick with multi joint exercises and focus on weight progression.


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## flapjack

IMHO the squat is the king of all strength exercises. One deep squat uses over 200 muscles. It takes the body to 100% of its limits and builds the systems that power all muscles. If your body gets used to providing the support needed to squat it will have no problem giving you 100% when you bench press. Sort of turbo charges you.


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## winger

flapjack said:


> IMHO the squat is the king of all strength exercises. One deep squat uses over 200 muscles. It takes the body to 100% of its limits and builds the systems that power all muscles. If your body gets used to providing the support needed to squat it will have no problem giving you 100% when you bench press. Sort of turbo charges you.


I agree. It produces more natural growth hormones, more natural testosterone production than any other exercise.....period.

You can squat more and even loose bodyfat, who knew?

The biggest guys on the planet do squats, enough said.

Check your rep points mate.


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## flapjack

Cheers Winger


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## wattson1

Good post thank you! I have been doing this routine for a while now but only started squatting today! How I wish I knew what I know now back then! My knee is pretty weak atm though so had to keep it relatively light :]


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## nathanlowe

Thanks for this, im going to give the 20 reppers a go.

No squat rack at new gym im joining, but its expanding soon so.

Just going to get somebody who works there to load plates onto the barbell when its on my back and go for a 20 repper.


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## corbuk

dmcc said:


> I'd second that. And not just for beginners, I've recently changed my whole routine to something not terribly unlike this as my old one was going nowhere, and I've seen improvements.


Me too


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## corbuk

Good post


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## bkotey

You cant get any clearer than that mate . Cheers


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## juntamonkey

Great post, thanks alot for taking the time out.....I'll let you know how I get on with it. I must say I'm quite excited to do the 20 reppers, Hope it does'nt kill me though lol


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## Tall

No worries


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## ben_taylor

at home i have a smith machine, ez bar and tricep bar.

really liking this routine and something i want to try and fit round my work pattern but some of the excersises i cant do with what i have  ie:row and lat pull down.

what excersises could i do to still target all muscle groups like this routione but with what i have


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## cellaratt

Bump for later read...


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## Ho Fo Sho

Hi, can i just check, is this good for a 3 day split as in mon - pull, wed - legs, fri - push?


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## ParaManiac

Ho Fo Sho said:


> Hi, can i just check, is this good for a 3 day split as in mon - pull, wed - legs, fri - push?


Yes Ho,it's what the principle is based on


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## SOUTHMAN

i think ive got caught up in mind games and have been trying stupid workouts for mass for too long. I was on rippetoes for a while and makin gains but got caught up in hype from guys in the gym and magazines. Back to basiscs so now im gunna switch to this.

Pull Day (Back and Bis)

Deadlifts 3x8-12

Chins (Palms facing) or Lat Pulldowns 20reps

Rows (Palms facing if you wish) 3x8-12

Tues

Moderate cardio

Thurs

Legs

Squats 20reppers

SLDL 20 reppers

Calf Raises (Optional) 3xfailure?

Sunday

Push Day (Chest,Tris and Shoulders)

Bench (Flat or Incline) 3x8-12

Overhead Press 3x8-12

Dips 3x8-12

If i can do more dips than that rep range should i? or should i do weighted dips?

I may even start a journal!


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## winger

SOUTHMAN said:


> Dips 3x8-12
> 
> If i can do more dips than that rep range should i? or should i do weighted dips?
> 
> I may even start a journal!


I would use added weight and stick around the 8-12 rep range.


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## SOUTHMAN

Also when u say rows on back day, do u mean bent over rows where the bar is slightly above parallel to the floor and u take the bar to the abs or pendaly rows where your the torso is parallel to the floor and u bring the bar to chest ala rippetoe?

Any video form links would me usefull


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## essexboy

Great recommendations.Like to add one aspect that i have found from experience makes a huge difference.Form.You must constantly progress(get stronger)to gain lean tissue.However do not let the form slip.Every time, you twist,throw, heave chuck you are removing some of the tension, and using momentum to assist you.In fact you are making the movement easier.This is not productive, and can cause injuries.As the exercise becomes more stressful as in squats you must fight these tendancies to cheat.Your body does not want to add any more muscle, its got quite enough for everyday use, (and a bit extra in reserve)so it will do everything in its power, including using your subconcious mind to maintain the equilibrium.You must use the concious mind to FORCE it to make provisions for further assaults on the body, with the addition of more lean tissue.Im currenty using a routine very similar to the one recommended.

however its a fullbody twice weekly workout.Im gaining 2lbs a month of lean tissue in an almost linear fashion.over 25lbs in the last 14 months.( no drugs, supllements etc)im in my 40s with very average genetics.As i train alone, i use a universal squat machine(for safety),or when i feeling brave , the nautilus duo squat, delt press, dips, deads, nautilus pullovers or hammer rows.thats five sets per total workout.IF any one is asking if one set of 20 rep squats is enough, its very obvious they havent tried it.


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## Tall

SOUTHMAN said:


> Also when u say rows on back day, do u mean bent over rows where the bar is slightly above parallel to the floor and u take the bar to the abs or pendaly rows where your the torso is parallel to the floor and u bring the bar to chest ala rippetoe?
> 
> Any video form links would me usefull


Rows are rows are rows.

BB Rows / Pendlay Rows / DB Rows - whatever you like and feel comfortable with.

YouTube for links amigo.


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## SOUTHMAN

cool just one thing....you say about core work, i was thinking turkish getups and maybe leverage club work?

or should i be thinking situps and cable crunches


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## toxo

thats a good basic stu mcroberts type routine. i did that when i was a teenager and put on good mass although you do need to stick in some islotation work if any body parts start lagging behind, for me it was upper pecs,rear delts, traps and arms but i think for most people that want be a problem, im just built fugley lol


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## on_the_up!

Hi all,

Great routine! Have started this on already...1st session last night! Was quality.....except....the warm up?!!!

If i'm doing 3x8 @ 80kg on bench for my 'work sets', what sort of build up should i be doing in the warm ups? 10 @ 50, 10 @ 60, 8 @ 70kg ?

Would I structure the warm up the same on each of the movements?

Thanks, just seemed a bit short cos i peaked too soon i think!!

Cheers


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## SOUTHMAN

i warm up at 50% of my work weight, 2 or 3 sets, but ill do like 6 reps, nothing taxing just to loosen up and get the blood pumping a little.


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## on_the_up!

Nice one..! That sounds good to me! Will give it a whirl on the 'pull' session tonight.

Cheers


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## Gza1

Anybody tried this? Am lookin to change my routine, never done a push pull legs, would this routine suit a beginer more than say some one whose been lifting 2-3yrs?


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## toxo

give it a go m8, it cant hurt if you dont like it you can change it more to your tastes


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## dmcc

Gza1 said:


> Anybody tried this? Am lookin to change my routine, never done a push pull legs, would this routine suit a beginer more than say some one whose been lifting 2-3yrs?


Go for it. I'd been training for about 6 years, wound up overtraining, before I switched to a PPL and it's been great for me.


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## SOUTHMAN

i have a back injury now and cant deadlift. Squats dont seem to hurt it much but deadlifts affect it for a few days. what should i put in their place for a while untill my back it better?


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## Suprakill4

An avsolutely excellent thread this one mate so reps to ya!!

Thanks for taking the time to do this, it may save alot of threads appearing that all seem to be the same. I think alot of people will get much out of reading this, especially people just starting.

Well done!! :thumbup1:


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## on_the_up!

Hi,

Been doing this routine for a few weeks now...and loving it!!

Doing it on a 3 day split, and increasing the lifts each session - woo hoo!! That's a good feeling 

Quick question....if I want to increase a lift, could I add in an extra day to bring that area on more? Eg: to increase squat - do the leg session as prescribed (squat/sldl/calves) on monday, then on thurs/fri do a 2nd one with leg press/leg curl/calves? Would that increase the strength, and therefore in turn the squat itself?

Hope that makes sense...?!!


----------



## Tall

on_the_up! said:


> Hi,
> 
> Been doing this routine for a few weeks now...and loving it!!
> 
> Doing it on a 3 day split, and increasing the lifts each session - woo hoo!! That's a good feeling
> 
> Quick question....if I want to increase a lift, could I add in an extra day to bring that area on more? Eg: to increase squat - do the leg session as prescribed (squat/sldl/calves) on monday, then on thurs/fri do a 2nd one with leg press/leg curl/calves? Would that increase the strength, and therefore in turn the squat itself?
> 
> Hope that makes sense...?!!


Stick to the program.


----------



## BassJunkie

I will be switching to this routine after i hit 1.5xBW squat on stronglifts 5x5, i'm thinking of doing a 3x8 rep-range to work on getting bigger muscles.

supposing I don't stall on the squats I'll be lifting my bodyweight a few weeks before xmas 

I'll then be away for just over a month so i will switch to this routine when i get back


----------



## on_the_up!

Tall said:


> Stick to the program.


Will do Tall, cheers for the reply 

It's a quality programme, so guess no need to change really - just be patient? Thanks


----------



## tribalegs

hi, used to do a squat routine using the smiths machine. id warm up legs with extensions and curls and have a good stretch. THEN 20 reps slowly with no locking out at the top. 1 rep consisted of going down below parallel up 1/2 way, down to parallel then up to just before lockout. we used this routine when we olympic lifted, the following leg workout we would do the same but as front squats. don't know if it would work for everyone but in defo worked for me . always spend time stretching before and after workout.


----------



## DamienBigD

Thank you for this


----------



## winger

tribalegs said:


> always spend time stretching before and after workout.


So you recommend stretching before you train?


----------



## deanoz007

I have been training for 15 months now but stop gaining in july.

i posted a thread describing my situation and some guys recommended me this push , pull and legs routine do u think it is suitable as iam currently using it ?


----------



## Tall

winger said:


> So you recommend stretching before you train?


Depends on the stretching type...


----------



## deanoz007

whats that tall?


----------



## Tall

deanoz007 said:


> I have been training for 15 months now but stop gaining in july.
> 
> i posted a thread describing my situation and some guys recommended me this push , pull and legs routine do u think it is suitable as iam currently using it ?


Yes. But we already told you that on your thread. Just eat/train/rest/recover/grow.


----------



## winger

Tall said:


> Depends on the stretching type...


Care to elaborate just a little on that? :whistling:


----------



## tribalegs

i warm up either skipping or on cross trainer then gently stretch. after workout i again stretch. i have followed this since i was 14 years old (thats 30yrs ago) and the only injury has been to my back (all my own fault).

t


----------



## hackskii

Stretching is great, especially when the muscle is pumped, this helps to stretch the fascia to allow more room for the muscle to grow.

I dont think it is a good idea to stretch a cold muscle.


----------



## Bulldozer

hackskii said:


> I dont think it is a good idea to stretch a cold muscle.


Amen!!

Warm up (CV)

Stretch

Work out

Cool down

Stretch


----------



## hackskii

Tall said:


> Had a number of "Can you check my routine threads" on here recently, I think alot of people on here are in agreement on how to train, so I thought I'd fire this up as a reference for anyone who's recently started training / looking for a change in training / hit a plateau etc.
> 
> This is a general strength routine. Nothing fancy. No fancy isolation work.
> 
> *N.B.* This routine is not designed for absolute beginners who have never set foot in the gym before. 3 months following a full body routine to acclimatise the body to the stress you will be placing on it is advised.
> 
> *P.S.* If you have never Squatted and Deadlifted before you must get someone to show you correct form.
> 
> *Rep Range *- I don't beleive this is hugely crucial. You can make progress on any rep range, but the ones I'll suggest are:
> 
> 5x5 - 5 sets of 5 reps (Starr, Park, Ripptoe)
> 
> 3x8-12 - 3 Sets, 8 to 12 Reps (Classic 'Hypertrophy' Routine)
> 
> 20 Reppers - Best Suited For Squats, Deadlifts, SLDL and Chins only IMHO - 20 Reppers will need to be done Rest-Pause style as progress increases.
> 
> The assumption you know how to warm up correctly is being made here...
> 
> *Recovery*
> 
> This can be done 3 times in a 7 day period if you can recovery from it, or every 3rd day.
> 
> *Bulking And Cutting*
> 
> Is this routine suitable for Bulking/Cutting? Yes, its fine for both. Training shouldn't differ when bulking or cutting. When bulking you should find that your lifts increase well each week. When cutting - well thats a different story. As you're in a calorific deficit you shouldn't expect to hit PBs or have the same level of progression as when bulking.
> 
> When cutting you may need to adjust the weights you are using in order to complete the workout. You should also ensure that you are doing the correct level of cardio and that you are dieting correctly.
> 
> *The Routine*
> 
> *Pull Day (Back and Bis)*
> 
> Deadlifts
> 
> Chins (Palms facing) or Lat Pulldowns
> 
> Rows (Palms facing if you wish)
> 
> *Legs*
> 
> Squats
> 
> SLDL
> 
> Calf Raises (Optional)
> 
> *Push Day (Chest,Tris and Shoulders)*
> 
> Bench (Flat or Incline)
> 
> Overhead Press
> 
> Dips Or Close Grip Bench Press
> 
> The above is the 'core' of a good solid workout IMHO. You should look to add in flexability work, core work, and cardio.
> 
> The above routine shouldn't take you more than 45mins - it might not look much, but if you are lifting heavy, and especially if you are doing 20 Rep Rest-Pause Deadlifts/Squats it is quite taxing.
> 
> *Progression*
> 
> You have a number of options on this front.
> 
> Linear Progression
> 
> Aim to put at least 1kg onto each lift each week - you may need to invest in your own small plates (2x 0.5kg) for this - most gyms will only have 1.25kg as their smallest plates.
> 
> So assuming you could lift 100kgs on your Deadlift, a example 8 weeks would look like this:
> 
> Week 1: 5x5 @ 100kgs
> 
> Week 2: 5x5 @ 101kgs
> 
> Week 3: 5x5 @ 102.5kgs
> 
> Week 4: 5x5 @ 103.5kgs
> 
> Week 5(1): 5x5 @ 105kgs
> 
> Week 6(2): 5x5 @ 106kgs
> 
> Week 7(3): 5x5 @ 107.5kgs
> 
> Week 8(4): 5x5 @ 108.5kgs
> 
> *N.B.* At some point your linear progression will stop. At this point you may need to back down and 'take a run up' as per cyclic progression. By this stage however you should have gained enough knowledge to understand how your body is working and adjust appropriately.
> 
> Cyclic Progression
> 
> Working in 4 week cycles build up to hitting a PB in week 4, and then drop the weight back in week 1 of the next cycle by 10% - adding "5%" or 5kgs onto the bar each week.
> 
> So assuming you could lift 100kgs on your Deadlift, a example 8 weeks would look like this:
> 
> Week 1: 5x5 @ 90kgs
> 
> Week 2: 5x5 @ 95kgs
> 
> Week 3: 5x5 @ 100kgs
> 
> Week 4: 5x5 @ 105kgs (PB)
> 
> Week 5(1): 5x5 @ 95kgs
> 
> Week 6(2): 5x5 @ 100kgs
> 
> Week 7(3): 5x5 @ 105kgs
> 
> Week 8(4): 5x5 @ 110kgs
> 
> *Recovery*
> 
> The above progress cycles assume you can go 8 weeks solid without a week off. Thats not going to be the case for some people. You may want to alter your training cycles to somewhere in the 4 to 8 week range before taking a week off, and then re-starting the training cycle at the appropriate point. I find a reset after a week off is good, so assuming someone has a 4week cycle, an example 10 weeks would look as follows(based on our 100kg deadlift):
> 
> Week 1: 5x5 @ 90kgs
> 
> Week 2: 5x5 @ 95kgs
> 
> Week 3: 5x5 @ 100kgs
> 
> Week 4: 5x5 @ 105kgs (PB)
> 
> Week 5: Week off
> 
> Week 6(1): 5x5 @ 95kgs
> 
> Week 7(2): 5x5 @ 100kgs
> 
> Week 8(3): 5x5 @ 105kgs
> 
> Week 9(4): 5x5 @ 110kgs (PB)
> 
> Week 10: Week off
> 
> Weighlifting is a simple formula:
> 
> Correct Training + Progression + Diet + Rest = Results


I like that, it is much easier to read than your journal.....lol

What is N.B. and P.S.?

Sorry, I think you told me once before but my short term memory is having problems....


----------



## hackskii

Bulldozer said:


> Amen!!
> 
> Warm up (CV)
> 
> Stretch
> 
> Work out
> 
> Cool down
> 
> Stretch


I know a chick that stretched her calves before an aerobics session, and she tore her calf.......Man, that jacked her bad, she could not walk for a while.


----------



## trickymicky69

n.b is "nota bene", latin i think for abbreviation, also can be "abb" or "abbrev"

p.s is "post scriptum" and normally means some sort of extra bit at the bottom of a letter or statement that should be notified to the reader


----------



## trickymicky69

from memory so i could be wrong


----------



## Bulldozer

hackskii said:


> I know a chick that stretched her calves before an aerobics session, and she tore her calf.......Man, that jacked her bad, she could not walk for a while.


I onced warmed up my Johnson, gave it a stretch and pulled a muscle!!

I said do as i say , dont do as i do .  bwhahahah


----------



## hackskii

trickymicky69 said:


> n.b is "nota bene", latin i think for abbreviation, also can be "abb" or "abbrev"
> 
> p.s is "post scriptum" and normally means some sort of extra bit at the bottom of a letter or statement that should be notified to the reader


Damn, you learn something every day............Thanks for that.



Bulldozer said:


> I onced warmed up my Johnson, gave it a stretch and pulled a muscle!!
> 
> I said do as i say , dont do as i do .  bwhahahah


Thanks for making my day laughing.


----------



## trickymicky69

hackskii said:


> Damn, you learn something every day............Thanks for that


its not very often i teach you something hackman


----------



## hackskii

trickymicky69 said:


> its not very often i teach you something hackman


You would be surprised mate.

Iron sharpens Iron, like one man sharpens another..............


----------



## BassJunkie

Are the 20 reppers good for size? I'm still classed as a beginner but I can't wait to try them out once i've built up some strength.

Once i've got my strength goals using stronglifts i'll probably switch to this routine


----------



## SD

BassJunkie said:


> Are the 20 reppers good for size? I'm still classed as a beginner but I can't wait to try them out once i've built up some strength.
> 
> Once i've got my strength goals using stronglifts i'll probably switch to this routine


As part of a periodised programme they are a great tool to use for new growth.

Even Arnie did 20 rep or 'Breathing' Squats so they do have there place.

I would suggest you stuck to 10-12 reps at abeginner stage for most of your workouts but 20 reps thrown in now and again will keep things fresh.

SD


----------



## BassJunkie

I wont be attempting 20-rep squats any time soon thats for sure!

Once i reach my goal strength thats when i'll work on adding more muscle.

Just to clarify:

Stick to a normal routine but when you find your gains are slowing then throw in a 20-repper to spark off some more growth then return to previous rep-range?

I think that's what i've gathered from reading about people doing 20-reppers


----------



## Tall

winger said:


> Care to elaborate just a little on that? :whistling:


Dynamic Stretches Pre-WO (only if needed)

Progressive Static Stretches PWO

IMHO


----------



## Richards9876

What a great read. Going to give this a go starting this week.

Pardon my stupidity but could i clarify a couple of things:


Do i warm up at a lower weight on each exercise before going onto my chosen rep range/ weight?

Am i able to add an isolation exercise for any area i feel may need extra work? (I understand that to see the best results it is better to stick to the program which i will be but wondered what effect adding isolation would have)

When you say to add 1kg each week to progress - if i am doing Lat Pulldowns that increase more than 1kg should i just aim to increase a notch each week (If that makes sense).


Cheers


----------



## nathanlowe

Richards9876 said:


> What a great read. Going to give this a go starting this week.
> 
> Pardon my stupidity but could i clarify a couple of things:
> 
> 
> Do i warm up at a lower weight on each exercise before going onto my chosen rep range/ weight? Yes
> 
> Am i able to add an isolation exercise for any area i feel may need extra work? (I understand that to see the best results it is better to stick to the program which i will be but wondered what effect adding isolation would have) Stick with the workout for a while and everything should balance out.
> 
> When you say to add 1kg each week to progress - if i am doing Lat Pulldowns that increase more than 1kg should i just aim to increase a notch each week (If that makes sense). Switch the rep range in it weekly so your doing more reps each week. Eventually go back to your first rep range and you should be able to increase the notch.
> 
> 
> Maybe something like this
> 
> 40kg 5 x 5 ( 25 rep )
> 
> 40kg 4 x 7 ( 28 reps )
> 
> 40kg 4 x 8 ( 32 reps )
> 
> 45kg 5 x 5
> 
> etc etc
> 
> Should be good way of progressing.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## Richards9876

I plan on doing this for 8 weeks and then having a week off - could i follow the progression like this on a 2 week cycle so that at the end of the 8 weeks i will have increased the weight 4 times:

40kg 5 x 5 (25 reps)

40kg 4 x 8 (32 reps)

45kg 5 x 5 (25 reps)

45kg 4 x 8 (32 reps)

If that makes sense???


----------



## nathanlowe

Richards9876 said:


> I plan on doing this for 8 weeks and then having a week off - could i follow the progression like this on a 2 week cycle so that at the end of the 8 weeks i will have increased the weight 4 times:
> 
> 40kg 5 x 5 (25 reps)
> 
> 40kg 4 x 8 (32 reps)
> 
> 45kg 5 x 5 (25 reps)
> 
> 45kg 4 x 8 (32 reps)
> 
> If that makes sense???


You might be able to do this for the first few weeks but you will gradually stop. Then you will need longer to improve your lifts.


----------



## BassJunkie

I'm gonna do this 4x12-8, increasing the weight each set

example:

1st set: 52.5x12

2nd set: 60x12

3rd set: 67.4x10

4th set: 75x8

Just not sure how much to increase the weight by weekly, obviously i'll be able to increase the deadlift faster than any of the others, do you recon 2.5kg or 5 kg each week? probably 2.5kg right?


----------



## nathanlowe

BassJunkie said:


> I'm gonna do this 4x12-8, increasing the weight each set
> 
> example:
> 
> 1st set: 52.5x12
> 
> 2nd set: 60x12
> 
> 3rd set: 67.4x10
> 
> 4th set: 75x8
> 
> Just not sure how much to increase the weight by weekly, obviously i'll be able to increase the deadlift faster than any of the others, do you recon 2.5kg or 5 kg each week? probably *2.5kg right?[/*quote]
> 
> Correct


----------



## BassJunkie

Thanks, what about the increasing weight/decreasing reps thing, does it sound alright?


----------



## hackskii

BassJunkie said:


> Thanks, what about the increasing weight/decreasing reps thing, does it sound alright?


Try increasing the reps each week, when it goes above your target range of reps, then add some more weight.


----------



## BassJunkie

hackskii said:


> Try increasing the reps each week, when it goes above your target range of reps, then add some more weight.


I just meant the 52.5x12 60x12 67.5x10 75x8 thing.


----------



## Richards9876

So ive been to the gym today and done a Pull session as per below:

Deadlifts

100kgs Warm up x 8 Reps

105kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps

Lat Pulldowns

45kgs Warm up x 10 Reps

60kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps

DB Upright Row

30kgs Warm up x 10 Reps

40kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps

I managed all this in 20 minutes so i was in & out of the gym in 25 minutes. Now compared to my previous 45-60 minutes training sessions i left the gym feeling like i had hardly trained even though the above weights were the most i could lift with perfect form.

I have read the thread front to back and back to front and it seems that everyone rates this workout highly but i left feeling like i had hardly trained.

Has anyone felt the same when switching onto this routine?


----------



## winger

I would give it a try and if you start having personal bests in your lifts then you did something right.


----------



## dmcc

Wait to see how sore you are tomorrow. Or, up the weight next week and do 5x5 instead, as recommended in the original post. It might not seem like a lot at the time, but you know it the next day. I do 5x5 and, including a thorough warm-up, can be done in half an hour, though pull day is sometimes more like 50 mins. But I feel it the next day.


----------



## Richards9876

winger said:


> I would give it a try and if you start having personal bests in your lifts then you did something right.


To be honest tonight was a personal best for me particuarly on Deadlift as i was quite chuffed with 105kgs for 3 Sets x 8 Reps with perfect form.

I know compared to what some guys are deadlifting its nothing but everyone needs to start somewhere i suppose and especially with proper form.

Just a strange feeling leaving the gym 25 minutes after i arrived when im used to being there 60 minutes.


----------



## Richards9876

dmcc said:


> Wait to see how sore you are tomorrow. Or, up the weight next week and do 5x5 instead, as recommended in the original post. It might not seem like a lot at the time, but you know it the next day. I do 5x5 and, including a thorough warm-up, can be done in half an hour, though pull day is sometimes more like 50 mins. But I feel it the next day.


Ill see how i feel tommorow as a gauge and then look at tweeking the reps/ sets next week.

What do you do on Pull session that takes 50 minutes if you dont mind me asking? I warmed up on each exercise and had a 60 second rest between each set but still got in and out in 25 minutes.


----------



## dmcc

Richards9876 said:


> What do you do on Pull session that takes 50 minutes if you dont mind me asking? I warmed up on each exercise and had a 60 second rest between each set but still got in and out in 25 minutes.


LOTS of stretching as I have a history of back trouble and I need to protect it. I also do 3 sets of deads to get warmed up properly and to prepare my back. Also, the 5x5 programme takes a lot out of you and it can take a good three minutes between sets to recover (and slap more plates on the bar). And again, lots of stretching at the end.


----------



## Richards9876

dmcc said:


> LOTS of stretching as I have a history of back trouble and I need to protect it. I also do 3 sets of deads to get warmed up properly and to prepare my back. Also, the 5x5 programme takes a lot out of you and it can take a good three minutes between sets to recover (and slap more plates on the bar). And again, lots of stretching at the end.


Cheers, think im going to play by how i feel tommorow and then possibly tweek sets/ reps next week.

Also, Do you also stick to the exercises set out in the original post?


----------



## dmcc

Kind of. My journal is linked under all my posts and you can see what I put myself through there, but it's built around 4/5 core compound lifts - bench press, squat, deads, rows and military press, all using 5x5.

To put my pull day in perspective, today I did chest and was done in an hour, and that included stretching, warm-up, cardio and getting changed.


----------



## Richards9876

Is there a particular reason why you stuck to just chest as opposed to training Back & Biceps as per the original post?

Ive just had a quick read of your journal and seen that you seem to some 1RM on deadlifts and squats for example. Do you reccomend that i give stuff like this a go or should i just stick to building my strength up for now?

Also, i have done Deadlifts tonight on my Pull Session and according to the original post Legs night has SLDL - now due to timing this week i am going to have to train legs tommorow night.

Is it wise to do deadlifts 2 nights in a row or should i switch them for something else?


----------



## winger

Richards9876 said:


> Just a strange feeling leaving the gym 25 minutes after i arrived when im used to being there 60 minutes.


Were you making gains?

My workouts are every other day and they are only 23 minutes during my 30 minute lunch break and IMO that is plenty.

I didn't start the thread so I really don't like to step on anybodies toes but I agree with Tall. If you are adding weight to your lifts you are doing something right. Also, I have yet to see a guy with a 500 lb dl, a 400 lb squat and a 300 lb bench be a small guy.

It forces the body to grow!

Personally I would stick to the program and try it out. You can never go wrong with basic compound movements.

Also, did anyone notice there is no direct arm work? That is probably because the body maintains balance. If you work legs your arms will grow.

With every push excercise you hit triceps, with every pull excercise you hit biceps.



Tall said:


> *The Routine*
> 
> *Pull Day (Back and Bis)*
> 
> Deadlifts
> 
> Chins (Palms facing) or Lat Pulldowns
> 
> Rows (Palms facing if you wish)
> 
> *Legs*
> 
> Squats
> 
> SLDL
> 
> Calf Raises (Optional)
> 
> *Push Day (Chest,Tris and Shoulders)*
> 
> Bench (Flat or Incline)
> 
> Overhead Press
> 
> Dips Or Close Grip Bench Press


----------



## Richards9876

Well woke up today and felt the DOMS which was good and i have done Legs tonight. Going to stick to the routine for sure...


----------



## dmcc

Richards9876 said:


> Is there a particular reason why you stuck to just chest as opposed to training Back & Biceps as per the original post?


I think you've misread my post - I was making the comparison between how long it takes me to do a big back session and then chest.



> Ive just had a quick read of your journal and seen that you seem to some 1RM on deadlifts and squats for example. Do you reccomend that i give stuff like this a go or should i just stick to building my strength up for now?


Depends what you want out of this mate. If you're training for strength, then doing 1RM work is useful. I've only really done it on deadlifts, and it's only been over the last few months. Once you've built up a good bit of strength, why not give it a go? But be careful and sensible about it.



> Also, i have done Deadlifts tonight on my Pull Session and according to the original post Legs night has SLDL - now due to timing this week i am going to have to train legs tommorow night.
> 
> Is it wise to do deadlifts 2 nights in a row or should i switch them for something else?


If you're doing it right, deads and SLDL hit different muscle groups - SLDL is more hamstrings. Perhaps not that advisable to do pull and legs back to back, but if you feel up to it, try it. Listen to what your body tells you.


----------



## Richards9876

Cheers for that - after re-reading your post again i must have read it wrong.

Ive started a journal myself to track where i am up to and hopefully get some pointers along the way.


----------



## Rob68

just started the ppl training routine this week....because of my work and gym opening times i have done it tuesday wednesday thursday....am i ok to do it on consecutive days,and have a rest for a couple of days?...

thanks rob


----------



## Guest

as long as its different body parts sure, wont make any difference in my opinion, i did legs and shoulders yesterday and back and triceps today because i need friday free


----------



## Rob68

Mrdaveyk said:


> as long as its different body parts sure, wont make any difference in my opinion, i did legs and shoulders yesterday and back and triceps today because i need friday free


thanks for that:thumbup1:


----------



## invisiblekid

Richards9876 said:


> So ive been to the gym today and done a Pull session as per below:
> 
> Deadlifts
> 
> 100kgs Warm up x 8 Reps
> 
> 105kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps
> 
> Lat Pulldowns
> 
> 45kgs Warm up x 10 Reps
> 
> 60kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps
> 
> DB Upright Row
> 
> 30kgs Warm up x 10 Reps
> 
> 40kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps
> 
> I managed all this in 20 minutes so i was in & out of the gym in 25 minutes. Now compared to my previous 45-60 minutes training sessions i left the gym feeling like i had hardly trained even though the above weights were the most i could lift with perfect form.
> 
> I have read the thread front to back and back to front and it seems that everyone rates this workout highly but i left feeling like i had hardly trained.
> 
> Has anyone felt the same when switching onto this routine?


100kg warm up when your doing 105kg for your heavy sets?

That looks like an injury waiting to happen to me mate. Lower your warm up weights and/or add additional warm up sets - JMO.

Big, a mod who I'm not sure posts much here anymore, did a similar thread and people usually saw good results on his workouts too - so be reassured this kind of workout does produce results.


----------



## Lux

Richards9876 said:


> So ive been to the gym today and done a Pull session as per below:
> 
> Deadlifts
> 
> 100kgs Warm up x 8 Reps
> 
> 105kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps
> 
> Lat Pulldowns
> 
> 45kgs Warm up x 10 Reps
> 
> 60kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps
> 
> DB Upright Row
> 
> 30kgs Warm up x 10 Reps
> 
> 40kgs 3 Sets x 8 Reps
> 
> I managed all this in 20 minutes so i was in & out of the gym in 25 minutes. Now compared to my previous 45-60 minutes training sessions i left the gym feeling like i had hardly trained even though the above weights were the most i could lift with perfect form.
> 
> I have read the thread front to back and back to front and it seems that everyone rates this workout highly but i left feeling like i had hardly trained.
> 
> Has anyone felt the same when switching onto this routine?


One problem with what you did mate. Wrong rowing exercise!

The idea is to be using bent over rows. Not jumping on you, just pointing you in the right direction 

Also, warm up sets need to be lower. I usually do a few sets of around 50-60% of work set weight as you don't want to over tax the muscle before you get to hit it hard. The idea is to get the blood flowing and the muscle warmed up ready for your working weight.

Sometimes its worth slowly increasing the weight on warm up sets so say 1 set at 50% then 1 set at 60% then 1 set at 70% before lifting work weight.

This type of routine has been around for ages and constantly gets very good reviews and recommendations on so many BB boards because its very effective for so many people.

Keep up the hard work :cool2:


----------



## hackskii

Lux said:


> One problem with what you did mate. Wrong rowing exercise!
> 
> The idea is to be using bent over rows. Not jumping on you, just pointing you in the right direction
> 
> Also, warm up sets need to be lower. I usually do a few sets of around 50-60% of work set weight as you don't want to over tax the muscle before you get to hit it hard. The idea is to get the blood flowing and the muscle warmed up ready for your working weight.
> 
> Sometimes its worth slowly increasing the weight on warm up sets so say 1 set at 50% then 1 set at 60% then 1 set at 70% before lifting work weight.
> 
> This type of routine has been around for ages and constantly gets very good reviews and recommendations on so many BB boards because its very effective for so many people.
> 
> Keep up the hard work :cool2:


Nice post bro.


----------



## winger

You two get a room...lol


----------



## Richards9876

Lux said:


> One problem with what you did mate. Wrong rowing exercise!
> 
> The idea is to be using bent over rows. Not jumping on you, just pointing you in the right direction
> 
> Also, warm up sets need to be lower. I usually do a few sets of around 50-60% of work set weight as you don't want to over tax the muscle before you get to hit it hard. The idea is to get the blood flowing and the muscle warmed up ready for your working weight.
> 
> Sometimes its worth slowly increasing the weight on warm up sets so say 1 set at 50% then 1 set at 60% then 1 set at 70% before lifting work weight.
> 
> This type of routine has been around for ages and constantly gets very good reviews and recommendations on so many BB boards because its very effective for so many people.
> 
> Keep up the hard work :cool2:


Cheers for that, im pretty new to this kind of training so any advice is good advice. Luckily im only one week into it so ill amend my warm up sets and rows next week.


----------



## toxo

for the 5x5 do you use the same weight for all sets or add progressively more weight?


----------



## walks

[email protected] said:


> for the 5x5 do you use the same weight for all sets or add progressively more weight?


Some up the weight on every set, others use the same weight every set and add weight every week. Up to you


----------



## Rob68

would it be more beneficial to do standing military press over seated ones?

rob


----------



## hackskii

RJ68 said:


> would it be more beneficial to do standing military press over seated ones?
> 
> rob


Sure, it incourperates more core.


----------



## Tall

j.m. said:


> Hiya mate,
> 
> I've just started the routine that you have posted up in the Getting Started section. I wanted something simple that can help me grow & improve my strength.
> 
> Just a few questions I wouldn't mind asking though if you have a minute.
> 
> With Rows, what sort of grip would you suggest? I would normally have a grip of a bit wider than shoulder width, is this ok? Also, how is it best to perform it? When doing bentover rows with free weights, I find that my lowerback gets alot of pain (I also get this whilst deadlifting) so normally do it on a freeweight machine thing? Would this be ok or would it be more beneficial to use freeweights & use lighter weights & see if it is my form affecting me?
> 
> On the Bench press, does it matter if I were to use normal bench or dumbbell press? Just most of the time I don't have a spotter so feel more confident with dumbbells so if I ever dropped the weight or couldnt get it back up I can always drop the dumbbells.
> 
> Finally, overhead press, what is the best way to do it? Dumbbell, bar or smith & also standing or seated? I would really like to isolate the delts as I would really love to improve them.
> 
> Last night I gave the push day a go, bench, overhed & dips, just doing 4 x 10-12 for each & I can really feel it today in my chest & triceps so it worked :thumb:
> 
> I was amazed at how little had to be done to get a good burn as I would normally do at least 3 exercises for each body part.
> 
> Thanks alot


Pendlay rows I find give the best carryover to deadlifts, I use a pinkies on rings, double overhand grip.

If you are getting pain rather than a pump then go and see a physio. If it's just a pump then back off the weight so you aren't cheating and putting alot of strain on your lower back.

I don't find that my BB Flat Bench increases when my DB Flat Bench does, but my DB Flat Bench will follow my BB Flat bench. If you want to get better and Flat Bench then Flat Bench more.

If you just want to train chest then do DB Bench if you really don't feel confident, but you don't need to be working to failure.

OHP standing using a Barbell.


----------



## walks

Tall said:


> Pendlay rows I find give the best carryover to deadlifts, I use a pinkies on rings, double overhand grip.
> 
> If you are getting pain rather than a pump then go and see a physio. If it's just a pump then back off the weight so you aren't cheating and putting alot of strain on your lower back.
> 
> I don't find that my BB Flat Bench increases when my DB Flat Bench does, but my DB Flat Bench will follow my BB Flat bench. If you want to get better and Flat Bench then Flat Bench more.
> 
> If you just want to train chest then do DB Bench if you really don't feel confident, but you don't need to be working to failure.
> 
> OHP standing using a Barbell.


Ive just changed my form on the compound lifts after watching the rippetoe vids on YouTube.

Going to give those pendlay rows a bash tomorrow.

Going to give the starting strength routine a bash in a few weeks. Any1 used it before?


----------



## Bulldozer

walks said:


> Ive just changed my form on the compound lifts after watching the rippetoe vids on YouTube.
> 
> Going to give those pendlay rows a bash tomorrow.
> 
> *Going to give the starting strength routine a bash in a few weeks. Any1 used it before? *


Yes i have mate, when i first started training. Awesome routine, i made very good gains :thumbup1:


----------



## hackskii

If bent over rows hurt you, then swap them with cable, the movement wont be so locked on the back.

Deads I would suggest offer less of a risk than bent over rows, due to the back not being locked in the dead lift.

Or, you can use those machine that support your chest so you can pull as hard as you want.

For bodybuilding, it is angles, I like the idea of a dead lift, low row, mid row, and high row, just not all in the same sitting, moving things around offer diffrent stimulation, and this helps to keep you growing.

the low row I like as it gets just up under the traps, and some trap. I have a nice hammerstrength machine for that and it supports your chest and has a fantastic stretch.


----------



## j.m.

Thanks for the replies, been busy with exams this las week or so & havent had time to replie to the thread. Reps for the help! :thumb:



Tall said:


> Pendlay rows I find give the best carryover to deadlifts, I use a pinkies on rings, double overhand grip.
> 
> If you are getting pain rather than a pump then go and see a physio. If it's just a pump then back off the weight so you aren't cheating and putting alot of strain on your lower back.
> 
> Yeah its, pain, I tried the Pendlay rows too & these cause pain as well. I can deadlift 80-90kg, or did before christmas but this really hurt the lower back, yesterday I tried light ones on the pull day with just 5kg eitherside of a 5 or 6 foot bar & this still gave pain when I finished, it is like I cannot stand upright for a minute & have to sit down & bend over & slowly force myself up right.
> 
> What sort of thing could the physio do as I have never seen one before?
> 
> It may because I am not very flexible, my sister is back soon for a month & she goes to yoga in Australia 5 or 6 times a week every morning so she has said I am doing it with her every day to see how much more flexible I can become in a month which may help.
> 
> I don't find that my BB Flat Bench increases when my DB Flat Bench does, but my DB Flat Bench will follow my BB Flat bench. If you want to get better and Flat Bench then Flat Bench more.
> 
> I am mixing it up at the moment, when I have a friend with my I have done BB Bench so he can spot me, but when on my own I am using dumbells.
> 
> If you just want to train chest then do DB Bench if you really don't feel confident, but you don't need to be working to failure.
> 
> OHP standing using a Barbell.
> 
> Started these & have the first doms that I can ever remember in my shoulders. :thumb:





hackskii said:


> If bent over rows hurt you, then swap them with cable, the movement wont be so locked on the back.
> 
> I have been alternating between cable & the freeweight machine which is feeling better on my back
> 
> Deads I would suggest offer less of a risk than bent over rows, due to the back not being locked in the dead lift.
> 
> Or, you can use those machine that support your chest so you can pull as hard as you want.
> 
> For bodybuilding, it is angles, I like the idea of a dead lift, low row, mid row, and high row, just not all in the same sitting, moving things around offer diffrent stimulation, and this helps to keep you growing.
> 
> the low row I like as it gets just up under the traps, and some trap. I have a nice hammerstrength machine for that and it supports your chest and has a fantastic stretch.


----------



## j.m.

Oh, by the way, regarding deadlifts, whilst in australia I had a session withe a personal trainer who helped me with form & got it perfect but still had some trouble, I have also asked two different trainers at the JJB gym where I train & both say my form is correct but werent sure why it was hurting still...


----------



## winger

j.m. said:


> Oh, by the way, regarding deadlifts, whilst in australia I had a session withe a personal trainer who helped me with form & got it perfect but still had some trouble, I have also asked two different trainers at the JJB gym where I train & both say my form is correct but werent sure why it was hurting still...


Maybe your back is out of alignment. Maybe a good chiropractor could help that.


----------



## Rob68

ive just done push session 5x5.....but by the time ive finished the session i feel like i m only just getting started,and could keep going and going so to speak.......

is this just adrenalin from the work out

am loving ppl 5x5 as i feel i was not making any more gains on my old routine....

cheers rob....


----------



## BassJunkie

I still don't understand why this thread isn't a sticky yet...


----------



## [email protected]

I have just started the gym and plan on giving this training program a go. Just wondering if you could replace the standard squats with hack squats and still gain the full workout??


----------



## BassJunkie

[email protected] said:


> I have just started the gym and plan on giving this training program a go. Just wondering if you could replace the standard squats with hack squats and still gain the full workout??


Why do you want to do hack squats rather than back squats?

with back squats you can use more weight which will tax your muscles more and give you better results so basically, back squats will more likely give you better results.


----------



## [email protected]

Only because i train alone and feel safer doing hack squats on the machine.


----------



## BassJunkie

Doesn't the gym have a power cage or a squat rack? If not then sure go for the hack squat, or just ask someone at the gym to spot for you, just keep in mind that you wont be able to add as much weight so you won't get as good results.


----------



## BassJunkie

I was just wondering how I can train my pull-up strength while doing this routine? I cant even do one yet :tongue:

There are a few things I've found out there but they all involve doing them most days and I would like to fit it in around this split.

I workout at home so I don't have a pull-down machine and I don't have a resistance band but I do have a girlfriend to help lift me if need be so what do you guys recommend?


----------



## hackskii

If you can do one pullup you will be able to do 10 over time, you have to do them to improve on them.


----------



## winger

Have your gf hold your feet were you shoe laces would be. That way you can extend your legs and help as much as you want and she doesn't have to lift you.


----------



## 7i7

hackskii said:


> If you can do one pullup you will be able to do 10 over time, you have to do them to improve on them.


rows are fastest route there - at least were for me :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

7i7 said:


> rows are fastest route there - at least were for me :thumb:


That may be, and this makes alot of sense.

Alot of sense actually.


----------



## winger

Pull-ups for width, rows for thickness, but that's just me. :whistling:


----------



## big

winger said:


> Pull-ups for width, rows for thickness, but that's just me. :whistling:


Ok so that's width and girth sorted... but what about length? :confused1: :whistling:


----------



## 7i7

big said:


> Ok so that's width and girth sorted... but what about length? :confused1: :whistling:


static hanging :lol:


----------



## SinisterExtreme

I have always trained using basic routines like this. I find I get stronger and grow better from doing so. Thank god i found "Brawn" by Stuart McRobert back in the day!!


----------



## BassJunkie

My pull-up bar is a doorway one, and because it isn't high the only way I can hang from it is if I curl my lower leg up, even then hanging at arms length my knees are only an inch or two from the floor.

What about if I had my feet on the floor and if I was struggling push a little with my feet? the only thing is I'd be worried I'd cheat too much for it to work :tongue:


----------



## Bulldozer

I couldnt do mant chins to start off with,, so i used to do as many as i could and then do the negative part of the lift only until failure...

I was soon knocking out sets of 10


----------



## BassJunkie

I've been doing a couple of negatives every time I go past the door, trying to do it as slowly as possible, I think I'll continue this for a week and then have a go at them again.

Thanks guys


----------



## winger

big said:


> Ok so that's width and girth sorted... but what about length? :confused1: :whistling:


Shave and get some black paint.


----------



## [email protected]

Dumb question but what does SLDL stand for? I presume the last bit is dead lift


----------



## BassJunkie

[email protected] said:


> Dumb question but what does SLDL stand for? I presume the last bit is dead lift


Straight-leg deadlift or stiff-leg deadlift

http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?exercise=Straight+Leg+Deadlifts&table=exercises&ID=66


----------



## dmcc

Straight Leg Deadlift.


----------



## hackskii

Good mornings are another nice hamstring to glute tie in exercise.


----------



## Guest

hackskii said:


> Good mornings are another nice hamstring to glute tie in exercise.


 Great also for the spinal erectors a body part often overlooked.


----------



## [email protected]

Ah that explains it. I though deadlifts where for the back,Done my first SLDL yesterday and my hamstrings are feeling it 2day!


----------



## [email protected]

Another question:tongue:

Have been recomended to try the Bill Starr 5x5 program.As i begineer i dont know whats best for me.Any advice welcome?


----------



## winger

[email protected] said:


> Another question:tongue:
> 
> Have been recomended to try the Bill Starr 5x5 program.As i begineer i dont know whats best for me.Any advice welcome?


Try it, you might like it. Any routine that has you adding more weight to the bar is a good routine. If you stall, change the routine or deload.

Actually, if you find a routine that you are sticking with, that is the routine you should stick with.


----------



## big

winger said:


> Try it, you might like it. Any routine that has you adding more weight to the bar is a good routine. If you stall, change the routine or deload.


Very sensible advice


----------



## curtis

How to people rate this towards something like Rippetoes working mostly 3x5 apposed to 5x5 like here?


----------



## Bulldozer

curtis said:


> How to people rate this towards something like Rippetoes working mostly 3x5 apposed to 5x5 like here?


I dont agree that a push/pull/legs is optimum for a beginner.. But Tall's routine is pretty sound and its better than what 95% of most guys start on thats for sure..

Rippetoe is the Daddy... Although i have a lot of respect for some of the guys on here i dont think anybody could really argue with Rip method's as they speak for themselves..

I used Starting Strength when i first hit the weights and did very well on it.


----------



## curtis

Bulldozer said:


> I dont agree that a push/pull/legs is optimum for a beginner.. But Tall's routine is pretty sound and its better than what 95% of most guys start on thats for sure..
> 
> Rippetoe is the Daddy... Although i have a lot of respect for some of the guys on here i dont think anybody could really argue with Rip method's as they speak for themselves..
> 
> I used Starting Strength when i first hit the weights and did very well on it.


Thanks for that, Repped 

Just started out using Rippetoe's start of this week, alternating workouts instead of doing the whole 3 times a week thing.

Had 3 weeks of doing 10 exercises and all these cable stuff, I enjoyed it but I'm enjoying this more now. Only put on 1.5lb in that 3 weeks, along with aload of fat (4-5% infact) worked out about 6lb of fat on it's own. Still skinny as a twig though, only a pinch of fat on me.


----------



## winger

curtis said:


> only a pinch of fat on me.


I wish I could say that. :whistling:

Love the strength training for building a very solid base.


----------



## Tall

Bulldozer said:


> I dont agree that a push/pull/legs is optimum for a beginner.. But Tall's routine is pretty sound and its better than what 95% of most guys start on thats for sure..
> 
> Rippetoe is the Daddy... Although i have a lot of respect for some of the guys on here i dont think anybody could really argue with Rip method's as they speak for themselves..
> 
> I used Starting Strength when i first hit the weights and did very well on it.


Million ways to skin a cat. Try getting most folk on full body 3x per week and everyone on the boards will cry overtraining.


----------



## Tall

winger said:


> *Try it, you might like it. Any routine that has you adding more weight to the bar is a good routine. If you stall, change the routine or deload. *
> 
> Actually, if you find a routine that you are sticking with, that is the routine you should stick with.


I would rather they fixed their weakness than changed the routine.


----------



## Bulldozer

Tall said:


> Million ways to skin a cat. Try getting most folk on full body 3x per week and everyone on the boards will cry overtraining.


Indeed.

Nowt wrong with Full body's tho, especially for beginners , as you know 

Nowt wrong with full body's for an intermediate/advanced lifter if they are periodized properly :whistling:


----------



## Tall

Bulldozer said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Nowt wrong with Full body's tho, especially for beginners , as you know
> 
> Nowt wrong with full body's for an intermediate/advanced lifter if they are periodized properly :whistling:


I've been doing 3x Full Body as a deload. I don't think we can mention Periodisation on here though Bully :lol:

It's actually been a nice break to do Chest (CG)/Back/Legs/Shoulders/Arms 3x per week

Set some nice PBs even while deloading - as I'm sure you well know a deload doesn't always mean going light :whistling: and got some nice volume in there too.


----------



## Bulldozer

Aww yes the dreaded "P" word 

I forgot its a homosexual.. ahem i mean bodybuilding forum  :laugh:


----------



## Tall

Bulldozer said:


> Aww yes the dreaded "P" word
> 
> I forgot its a homosexual.. ahem i mean bodybuilding forum  :laugh:


When in doubt just shout "Up the dose" :lol:


----------



## winger

Tall said:


> When in doubt just shout "Up the dose" :lol:


WWJD, what would Joe do.


----------



## Tall

winger said:


> WWJD, what would Joe do.


Injure himself:lol:


----------



## winger

Tall said:


> Injure himself:lol:


Oh you got me on that one. LOL. That came from left field.


----------



## hackskii

Yah, just up the dose.

"New member" Help guys I cant sleep from all the clen I am taking, what should I do?

"*Joe*" Take another G of test a week.... 

"New Member" OK, thanks for the advice.


----------



## leafman

Just started somat like this after reading this thread.

monday push day

flat incline and decline 5x5 ?

Overhead press 5x5

Close grip bench press 5x5

wednesday legs day

Squats 20 reppers

Calf raises 5x5

Sldls???

Friday pull day

lat pull downs 5x5

Rows 5x5

Deadlifts 20 reppers

Couple of questions if any one can help. Is this ok? And am i doing enougth doin this? Also this might sound really stupid but what are SLDLs?

Iv just started this today so a answer on the sldl question would be appretiated.  (as i got legs wedensday)


----------



## Bulldozer

leafman said:


> Just started somat like this after reading this thread.
> 
> monday push day
> 
> flat incline and decline 5x5 ?
> 
> Overhead press 5x5
> 
> Close grip bench press 5x5
> 
> wednesday legs day
> 
> Squats 20 reppers
> 
> Calf raises 5x5
> 
> Sldls???
> 
> Friday pull day
> 
> lat pull downs 5x5
> 
> Rows 5x5
> 
> Deadlifts 20 reppers
> 
> Couple of questions if any one can help. Is this ok? And am i doing enougth doin this? Also this might sound really stupid but what are SLDLs?
> 
> Iv just started this today so a answer on the sldl question would be appretiated.  (as i got legs wedensday)


Id personally swap monday and wednesdays session around mate, that way you have maximum time between legs and back, the biggest muscle groups.

Id also do deadlifts first on fridays...

And SLDL stands for stiff leg dead lift

Its a sensible routine and your do well on it if you train hard.. Add a small amout of weight to the bar each week


----------



## leafman

So swap monday for wednesday ? as from now you think? just means my chest is gonna take a hammering again on wednesday lol. The only reason I put deads last is because after doin them for first time last friday i was fu ked and was weak and sh t all session? Mayb ill get used to it ill see how it goes. Cheers bulldozer


----------



## Tall

leafman said:


> So swap monday for wednesday ? as from now you think? just means my chest is gonna take a hammering again on wednesday lol. The only reason I put deads last is because after doin them for first time last friday i was fu ked and was weak and sh t all session? Mayb ill get used to it ill see how it goes. Cheers bulldozer


This is common and I understand why you feel that way.

The simple answer is to correct your mid-workout nutrition, and increase rest periods AFTER deadlifting.


----------



## leafman

Right i dont have any mid work out nutrition? Any advice for sommat? drink or fruit? bannana ? love em thats all lol. Do you mean hav more rests inbtween sets? This is the thing im gonna have a go at 20 reppers instead of five sets of five deads like i did last time. Mayb i done too much considering it took me all weekend to recover lol and id never done them before. Thanks Tall 

Sorry just seen the after deadlift statement, so more rest after mayb a quick sommat then? then continue with workout? Thanks again


----------



## winger

Tall said:


> increase rest periods AFTER deadlifting.


What is optimal? On average of course.


----------



## BassJunkie

Arrgh, I can't decide what sets and reps to do, I was doing stronglifts before, doing 3x5, and That was fine but I want to go for size over strength this time. I'm gonna be doing the routine in the OP, and I still want strength but I want more size. At first I was thinking of doing 3x8 but I don't know whether I would gain much strength from this. Any suggestions?


----------



## winger

BassJunkie said:


> Arrgh, I can't decide what sets and reps to do, I was doing stronglifts before, doing 3x5, and That was fine but I want to go for size over strength this time. I'm gonna be doing the routine in the OP, and I still want strength but I want more size. At first I was thinking of doing 3x8 but I don't know whether I would gain much strength from this. Any suggestions?


Why not work with all the rep ranges.


----------



## cecil_sensation

very good post mate, some really good stuff there bud


----------



## BassJunkie

winger said:


> Why not work with all the rep ranges.


pyramids? I've heard they are not very good for strength.


----------



## winger

BassJunkie said:


> pyramids? I've heard they are not very good for strength.


Chest as an example. If you do two exercises for chest you could do bench for 5 reps and 8 reps for inclines.

Or one week go heavier and one week lighter or if your not feeling as strong just do reps that workout. I always mix it up and almost never do the same rep range.


----------



## BassJunkie

Ahh yeah, I see what you mean, could get a bit confusing though, I like to be able to track my strength gains.


----------



## BassJunkie

Time to give this thread a little bump.

I'm going to be doing this 5x5 Reg Park style (it's more 3x5 with two warm-up sets, you do one set at 60% of working weight, one set at 80% then 3x5 with the working weight)


----------



## leafman

Gotta say this worked a treat for me. I trained three times a week (stil am at minute) leg day,push day and a pull day. 

Thanks Tall were ever u are hiding :thumbup1:


----------



## BassJunkie

leafman said:


> Gotta say this worked a treat for me. I trained three times a week (stil am at minute) leg day,push day and a pull day.
> 
> Thanks Tall were ever u are hiding :thumbup1:


Are you doing the routine in the OP or are you doing something else? Sets/reps? how long you been training for?


----------



## dog5566

just reading my old Gold's Gym book, to do squats correct you got to go down on an 8 second count an up on a 3, for 20reps

doss any one hear do this? i no the most reps i do is 12,


----------



## martin brown

dog5566 said:


> just reading my old Gold's Gym book, to do squats correct you got to go down on an 8 second count an up on a 3, for 20reps
> 
> doss any one hear do this? i no the most reps i do is 12,


That's take a hell of a long time to do a set - nearly 4 minutes!

No I sure don't do that.


----------



## dog5566

martin brown said:


> That's take a hell of a long time to do a set - nearly 4 minutes!
> 
> No I sure don't do that.


i no, i did squats lastnight 4 sets of 10 reps, an i can hardly move today, let alone 20 that slow!! lol


----------



## Lil D

Great Post Tall but im curious about the week off do you mean literally do no weights at all.

Or more like after 8 weeks of 5x5s a week of weight at maybe 40-50% and very high reps and then back to normal? If you mean nothing at all would cardio and carrying on with corework alright?

And just a question about what you think of changing routine for cutting to full body workouts for purely burning as many calories as possible while still maintaining enough muscle stimulus? Just curious because thats what I've started at the mo due to being out a fair while injured and need to get back in shape and better sooner rather than later. Cheers and again great post :thumb:


----------



## leafman

BassJunkie said:


> Are you doing the routine in the OP or are you doing something else? Sets/reps? how long you been training for?


err slightly diff but same thing. I started very strict to what Tall set out but have refined it bit now to suit meself. I done..

monday.. push day (chest shoulders and triceps) sets of 5x5 on flat bench incline bench,decline bench, seated db press and close grip bench press.

wednesday... leg day ( squats, ham curls and leg extensions and started calfs later on a few week into it) Done 5x5 for squats only others were 3x8.

friday.... pull day (back and biceps) sets of 5x5 deadlifts chins and seated row.

I done that for about 8 week and went from 8 stone 4 to ten stone lol. Yes i have been taken supps and a few other things :whistling: but the training was pretty much spot on for building mass in my opinion.

I still do 3 days a week at minute and still use push pull and leg days. I have added a few things in now thow. If interested i got a journal goin take a look but its a long read. Iv went from 8 stone 4 to 10 stone 8 in about 12 week ish i think. Like i say thow i aint shy when it comes to taking supps. Really is down to diet tbh in my opinion and that has been the hardest thing for me. Hope some off this might help buddy. 

i didnt do it bang on what tall said thow. I changed the way i increased weight but have made staedy gains in this. I took the basics from the routine.

Bye the way Tall were are you ????????


----------



## BassJunkie

I'm doing the routine as laid out by tall, I wwas originally doing strength training then sort of f*cked about for a month or so trying different things but I'm gonna go back into this more seriously. 5x5 but reg park style like I mentioned on the last page.

Just did the pull day today and was full of energy. I want to get to 73kg (I'm 69kg now) then cut down to 12% bf (16% now) then bulk up a lot.


----------



## BassJunkie

I've always had trouble with the overhead press so I had a thought to switch it with incline bench then going back after i reach a weight I'm happy with.

Does this sound like a good idea?


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## leafman

BassJunkie said:


> I've always had trouble with the overhead press so I had a thought to switch it with incline bench then going back after i reach a weight I'm happy with.
> 
> Does this sound like a good idea?


Im thinking it would need to be a steep incline to do shoulders but tbh i really aint the person to ask. Mayb someone else can help u out with this.

I use db for my push day. I dont do flat bench now just a slight incline and decline 5x5 then shoulder press 5x5 then i do close grip bench 5x5 heavy as i can.


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## Tall

BassJunkie said:


> I've always had trouble with the overhead press so I had a thought to switch it with incline bench then going back after i reach a weight I'm happy with.
> 
> Does this sound like a good idea?


Not really mate.

Just do OHP


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## martin brown

BassJunkie said:


> *I'm doing the routine as laid out by tall*, I wwas originally doing strength training then sort of f*cked about for a month or so trying different things but I'm gonna go back into this more seriously. 5x5 but reg park style like I mentioned on the last page.


You DID the routine. Then you messed about...

Maybe that's your problem there. Just follow the routine. Word for word. No changes, no alterations.

Such a simple thing yet confuses so many!


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## BassJunkie

Yeah I know, I ended up going away for a few weeks and when I got back had other things on my mind so lifting got pushed to the side. I'm going to follow it properly now though


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## Tall

winger said:


> What is optimal? On average of course.


Goal dependant really. It's linked to effort expended and conditioning.

I've no qualms about finding a corner to quietly die in for 20mins after heavy squatting if it means I can complete the rest of the work I need to do that session.

If Leafy is screwed after deads then he just needs to rest for a bit, then crack on when he's ready.


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## BassJunkie

I'm so p*ssed off at myself today.

I am always really careful about stretching, I do dynamic stretches before and static stretches after my workout. And I nver have any DOM because of it.

So today (leg day) I do my usual stretches and do the squats, then it comes to the SLDL and at the end of the first set I go down and argh! I suddenly realise I forgot one stretch... the hamstring stretch. I now have a pulled hamstring 

So annoyed, I barely ever forget stretches.


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## leafman

Tall said:


> Goal dependant really. It's linked to effort expended and conditioning.
> 
> I've no qualms about finding a corner to quietly die in for 20mins after heavy squatting if it means I can complete the rest of the work I need to do that session.
> 
> If Leafy is screwed after deads then he just needs to rest for a bit, then crack on when he's ready.


Good to see you back about :thumbup1:

After what u said i have a bannana and a five min rest after deads now, but am getting to stage now were i only need a few mins rest. It gets easyier more I got used to it. Thing is id not done deads before untill i started this routine.

Have to say i still use the basics as it is a easy routine for anyone to follow and plus i only have 3 days spare a week to train. Best thing i done tbh :thumbup1: And thanks again tall for help mate.


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## rimzie_84

Ive been reading alot on Ripptoes basic programme, i just wanted to know if this is directed at teenagers or if anyone can actually follow it. Thanks

I am 25


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## rustie83

Can't thank u enough. Sorry if I bugged anyone with my post earlier.

I've only been on the site 4 days.


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## bcfclee27

Am gonna give this a try but want to know how often i do the routine.

Would it be say....

Mon - Pull

Tues - REST

Weds - Legs

Thurs - REST

Fri - Push

Sat - REST

Sun - REST

Is that right ????


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## bcfclee27

Anyone ????


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## bcfclee27

On pull day where tall says chins and rows - palms facing is that palms facing each other or palms facing you ?


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## winger

Probably palms facing palms. That push pull routing is fine.


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## bcfclee27

winger said:


> Probably palms facing palms. That push pull routing is fine.


 cheers mate


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## Stupeo

Quality post mate. I started on this routine tonight at the gym...

Reps to OP.

Matt.


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## Gerry_bhoy

Started something basic like this, this week.

Was wondering if 1 bench exercise was enough for a push day.

After a 5x5 I now believe it is


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## Falcone

I'm doing a 4 day split at the moment, I think I have too much isolation etc for a beginner. Can I ask; what do you mean by *"You should look to add in flexability work, core work"*?


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## leonface

Falcone said:


> I'm doing a 4 day split at the moment, I think I have too much isolation etc for a beginner. Can I ask; what do you mean by *"You should look to add in flexability work, core work"*?


well the given workouts are simply upper body/lower body with no core workouts, (such as planks, sit ups, leg raises, that sort of thing). he's saying to not just do what is put down, use that as a base

...i think


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## bcfclee27

would this routine be good for hypertrophy ?


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## strange_days

bcfclee27 said:


> would this routine be good for hypertrophy ?


Yes !! :thumb:


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## TinyGuy

hope im not flogging a dead horse and know im a newbie, but i find myself linking people to this thread quite often, and finding it is difficult.

Not a prob for me now its bookmarked, but maybe a sticky is in order?


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## craig24

I know this is an old topic, but it looks like a great workout.

I can only get to the gym, Mon, Tues, Thurs & Fri

Could I do this workout but train, Mon, Tues & Thurs ?

Or do I need a day rest between?


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## Rosko

Course you can mate.

One thing i would say though, do Legs Mon, Push Tues and Pull Thurs.

It''l give you legs time to recover before doing deadlifts on thurs, and also give your lower back time to recover before doing squats mon.

Its a good basis of a routine, it basically what i do, one day on one day off. Go heavy on the main compound and do it first (Bench/Deads/Squat).


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## craig24

Cheers for the reply mate. I will be starting this on Monday then. Can hit some cardio on Friday aswel now.


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## craig24

Thanks KJW, I might do, it will help me keep a record then.


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## Rosko

Buy a little diary or note book and keep a log of your sessions. I started doing it a while back and its really helped me make sure i never go backwards and try to progress little bit by bit each week if i can.


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## craig24

Going to go and get 1 of them tomorrow. Done my first day today, legs feel good, but seemed to be in and out the gym really quick, and felt like I could of done alot more.

I imagine the push day is going to be even quicker.


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## Rosko

45 mins is all you need mate, sometimes less.

Legs day for me is 3x6 heavy sets of squats, then 4x12 on leg press, leg ext, ham curls, calf raises.

Get in, get out, eat!!!


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## craig24

Rosko said:


> 45 mins is all you need mate, sometimes less.
> 
> Legs day for me is 3x6 heavy sets of squats, then 4x12 on leg press, leg ext, ham curls, calf raises.
> 
> Get in, get out, eat!!!


I was in there like 25 mins tho, 5x5 squats, 5x5 sldl, 3x20 calf raises.

Felt like I could of done alot more, I will keep the workout as it says tho, and give it 5 weeks or so, see how it goes.


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## Rosko

I don't really like sldl but each to their own.

Add leg extensions or leg press, plenty of room for another lifts for quads.

Also, why 3x20 calves? Your calves get worked all day when you walk etc, so if anything, they need to be hit HEAVIER and HARDER to really work them.


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## craig24

So I can throw in like 1 more exercise on each day and it will be ok?

Cheers for the help mate!


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## Rosko

KJW said:


> Would also be good for others to give you input too.


Feel free to advise then KJW! :confused1:


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## nealo

Any chance you could do a basic diet sheet to go with this routine? IE when to take your protein supplements etc before or after how much etc etc.


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## milzy

Tall said:


> Lets just say it wasn't the 20reppers that got him...


It was an enlarged heart disorder. RIP.


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## loganchristophe

Excellent explanation of different progression techniques. Added to my memory


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## dtlv

loganchristophe said:


> Excellent explanation of different progression techniques. Added to my memory


Am glad you bumped this thread, not seen it before and is a very good routine and explanation by one of our ex mods.


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## DigIt

How does a 'rest-pause' style work? Pause so that the move becomes isometric for a second or two between reps?


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## ConstantCut

Subbed


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## PurpleOnes

So with 5x5 rep range it is the same amount of weight during a workout done in 5x5?

I have done previously 12-8-6 rep in 3 sets.


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