# employment reference cost me a great job



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Basically I got the job in September and since then I have turned down job offers....meanwhile the employer has been chasing up references for 3 months and I got a letter this morning saying due to 1 poor reference the offer of employment has been WITHDRAWN...

I am absolutely heart broken...angry...confused...I feel sick

this was a step up for me from a job...to a career in sport and fitness and I was super excited finally to be on track and start working on my career rather then just a normal job

I have contacted ACAS which deal with these kind of complaints and they said the people who offered me the job are fine to withdraw but the reference company is not...ASDA provided me with the poor reference and my old uni provided me with a great one

he said get a copy of the reference and go with a solicitor and potentially sue them for defamation of character

literally just ****ing ruined my morning completely when I read the letter...

Anyone got any advice about this? heard of anything similar happen to people


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

what did ASDA say that was false?


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

that is so unfair mate. I feel absolutely sick for you.

I just started a new job....... hope this does not happen to me as well as they are asking me for references but I have only ever worked for myself and 1 other company


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Heavyassweights said:


> what did ASDA say that was false?


haven't got the reference yet but it was "negative and poor" my potential employer said...I have requested the reference


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> that is so unfair mate. I feel absolutely sick for you.
> 
> I just started a new job....... hope this does not happen to me as well as they are asking me for references but I have only ever worked for myself and 1 other company


thanks man I've never had this problem in the past...honestly didn't think this could ever be a thing, I assumed there was some law in place to guarantee a good reference


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## Test-e (Mar 26, 2014)

Really? I thought the general consensus was that references were all positive. Feel for you mate, hope you get the situation resolved.

Back when I worked for tesco, some time ago.. was not the best employee but still got a nice reference from management.


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## Amann (Apr 9, 2014)

At least you know now for future ref to never give asda as one of your references....


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

JuggernautJake said:


> Basically I got the job in September and since then I have turned down job offers....meanwhile the employer has been chasing up references for 3 months and I got a letter this morning saying due to 1 poor reference the offer of employment has been WITHDRAWN...
> 
> I am absolutely heart broken...angry...confused...I feel sick
> 
> ...


I wouldn't shop at ASDA again to spite them


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## Brook877 (May 16, 2012)

I didn't think a negative reference could be given, I believed if you had parted on bad terms they could refuse to provide one or just give a report on your attendance, amount of sick days etc?


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

Brook877 said:


> I didn't think a negative reference could be given, I believed if you had parted on bad terms they could refuse to provide one or just give a report on your attendance, amount of sick days etc?


This is exactly how I understood it, I am pretty sure this is the case, I would get this checked out...


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## mlydon (Dec 4, 2014)

thats really unfair mate . f*** asda


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

I was also under the impression that companies usually just stick down the dates you worked there from and to, along with number of sick days?

Hope you get this sorted OP, that would have ruined more than my morning!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> haven't got the reference yet but it was "negative and poor" my potential employer said...I have requested the reference


Why do you think they wrote that?


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Op, you reckon they gave you a bad reference, because of that time you took a pooh in Aisle 3, beside the Bananas?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Asda is a huge company with a massive turnover of staff

Their HR team will be second to none regarding employment law and regulations

They would not have put something in his reference that they couldnt back up with evidence if requested.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

If you got sacked for gross misconduct then they are within their rights to state 'Terminated, on grounds of gross misconduct.'

Is that what happened?


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## Jamieson (Jul 11, 2014)

As far as I'm aware there are only 2 circumstances when a reference can be deemed 'negative' and these are if a character reference is asked for and can there fore be subjective and open to the interpretation of the person writing it OR it pertains to a job that is regulated, i.e., Lawyer, Banking, Medicine etc, and here they would note any complaints/regulatory/conduct issues which could be negative. Most reference are now just dates of employment, job title and absence, with this including punctuality, sick days and unauthorised absence, which are common in supermarket/retail work, so it could be this aspect of it that the new employer didn't like.

Hope you get it sorted.

J.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

banzi said:


> Asda is a huge company with a massive turnover of staff
> 
> Their HR team will be second to none regarding employment law and regulations
> 
> They would not have put something in his reference that they couldnt back up with evidence if requested.


you would think...but it wasn't done by HR but the head manager and it was done in pen so she printed it off and did it her self

she ticked the box punctuality as poor...which is a flat out lie...unless 1 sick day in 6 months is poor...but in terms of being on time I was NEVER late


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

you may join Chad Evans down at the local Job Market


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

https://www.gov.uk/work-reference

You may aswell take them to court if its genuinely unfair


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## Marvin Monkey (Nov 6, 2014)

Ok here's the deal.

You cannot provide a "bad" reference in the respect of your former manager giving their own personal opinion of you or your work performance. You can however answer specific questions that the reference asks such as:

How many times was this person absent from work while employed?

How many times was the person late on duty?

Would you consider the applicant trustworthy?

Would you employ this person again?

Questions that your potential employer would consider relevant to your new role. The issue arises in how your potential employer interprets the answers given, some are just yes / no, others require a written response. In all cases whatever answers are provided the previous employer will need to back them up with facts and figures if you do not agree with the information they have provided. unfortunately your potential employer will not be interested in your dispute with your former employer it is far easier for them to offer the vacancy to the next best candidate.

It is common practice for your former line manager / boss to provide the reference, if you have any issues with the information provide you need to contact their HR department direct and take it from there.

p.s. don't provide them as a reference in future


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

dann19900 said:


> https://www.gov.uk/work-reference
> 
> You may aswell take them to court if its genuinely unfair


yea read that...I genuinely believe it is unfair...I was with them for 7 months why didn't they sack me if I was so bad?...getting a phone call from a solicitor later


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Marvin Monkey said:


> Ok here's the deal.
> 
> You cannot provide a "bad" reference in the respect of your former manager giving their own personal opinion of you or your work performance. You can however answer specific questions that the reference asks such as:
> 
> ...


they left those closed questions blank...I had questions like that on the reference but they wern't answered

they also left the open questions blank simply putting N/A...things like briefly describe why the applicant is suitable for the role...N/A... I got an absolutely amazing review from my University lecturer

the only thing they did on the reference was tick boxes for 5 different things...honesty, punctuality, team working etc...I got fair 4 and poor for 1


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> you would think...but it wasn't done by HR but the head manager and it was done in pen so she printed it off and did it her self
> 
> she ticked the box punctuality as poor...which is a flat out lie...unless 1 sick day in 6 months is poor...but in terms of being on time I was NEVER late


If thats the case and you can prove it, then its looking more like unlawful dismissal as opposed to unfair.


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> thanks man I've never had this problem in the past...honestly didn't think this could ever be a thing, I assumed there was some law in place to guarantee a good reference


unfortunately you cant guarantee a good or bad reference... it has to be fair though.... HOWEVER just bare in mind if you have only been at your new company for 3 months they still have the right to do what they have done and withdraw employment. You don't have a leg to stand on until you have been with a company for two years.

Also if you want to try pursuing the case with ASDA this is gonna COST you a fair bit mate. Its kinda one of them really really really unfortunate circumstances.

Absolute disgrace personally

Similar thing has happened to my friend ... and he was unfairly dismissed ... but had not been with the company long enough

Citizens Advice - Dismissal


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

Is this job offer from your current employer as a promotion or a new potential employer? Have you remained employed during this time are has this caused you to be out of work?

Ticking a box on a scale of 1-5 isn't necessarily classed as a bad reference if the question was asked by the new employer and 'fairly' answered by the previous employer. For example if you were late twice a week several weeks in a row, marking 1 for punctuality would be a fair assessment and not deformation of character.

The fault may well lie with the new employer rather than ASDA. As an employer you are not allowed to directly ask a question to a referee that may potentially lead to a negative response. However you can ask open ended questions and if the referee freely gives you the information then it is deemed fair. It is a rather grey area but you have very little to go on IMO.


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

I'm a trainee lawyer, albeit not in employment. Ask politely for a copy of the reference, consider it and if you feel you want to either join a Union and speak to a rep or if you can afford it, see a solicitor.

You can nornally get a fixed fee review and advice etc for a few hundred, which may be worth considering.

Good luck


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Misspinky1983 said:


> As far as im aware, a compant CANT give you a bad referance, if they feel the need to give you a bad one they should say they cant provide you with one.


They can do what they like.

Whether that leaves them open to legal action is another matter entirely.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Bensif said:


> Is this job offer from your current employer as a promotion or a new potential employer? Have you remained employed during this time are has this caused you to be out of work?
> 
> Ticking a box on a scale of 1-5 isn't necessarily classed as a bad reference if the question was asked by the new employer and 'fairly' answered by the previous employer. For example if you were late twice a week several weeks in a row, marking 1 for punctuality would be a fair assessment and not deformation of character.
> 
> The fault may well lie with the new employer rather than ASDA. As an employer you are not allowed to directly ask a question to a referee that may potentially lead to a negative response. However you can ask open ended questions and if the referee freely gives you the information then it is deemed fair. It is a rather grey area but you have very little to go on IMO.


I've been working as a self employed personal trainer and martial arts coach while I was waiting to start my new job...I quit ASDA in august...got the job my new job in September since then I have worked self employed waiting to start...also turning down job offers waiting to start my perfect job!

How about having 1 sick day and never ever been late in 7 months of work...I would not consider that 1 out of 5... or "poor" as the manager ticked


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

within first 3 month they can do what ever they like, "3 month trail", but I think it was just an excuse.. sorry mate, it happens.. don't waist your time, find something else instead. With this case you just chasing the wind... G'luck!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

sauliuhas said:


> within first 3 month they can do what ever they like, "3 month trail", but I think it was just an excuse.. sorry mate, it happens.. don't waist your time, find something else instead. With this case you just chasing the wind... G'luck!


His issue isnt with his new employer its his old one ASDA


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

2004mark said:


> They can do what they like.
> 
> Whether that leaves them open to legal action is another matter entirely.


This, most companies are afraid to give bad references but if they want to then can. Pretty ****ty thing to do, I'd go the legal route.


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

I thought you weren't actually allowed to give a bad reference, just decline to provide one?

Guess that's bollocks!


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

time to drop @FelonE a pm and get him to break some skullllzzzzzzz (by PM)

add that to your lyrics felone


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

i know how you feel when you get ****ed by a company you trust, manager at my place had a vendetta against my family (she is now "on the sick" to the public and an investigation is taking place, but we know what ti means), her and her group of friends at the center tried to get me fired by giving 12 offical complaints, i work a reception and as a PT. some of the list below.

Selling pills and drugs to clients... yes clearly

assaulting a member of staff, apparently in front of kids and camera's, wonder why it wasnt recorded?

refusing to help people in the gym and turning them away, why would i turn down work?

not leaving diary notes...am i expected to write "no notes" every time i leave if there are none?

walking back and forth from the gym to reception 3, yes a whole 3 times in one night to do paper work, apparently thats complaint worthy.

shouting at staff...

list goes on for a while longer. but every single one was proven wrong with in a 20 min meeting.

if its false claims get them for what ever you can, people higher up dont think about how a few words effect the working man, i could have been ****ed for life if i wasnt backed up by every gym member and other member of staff


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## no-way (Oct 14, 2012)

Brook877 said:


> I didn't think a negative reference could be given, I believed if you had parted on bad terms they could refuse to provide one or just give a report on your attendance, amount of sick days etc?


I do this as standard. We do not provide personally references for anyone, only matters of fact. i.e Salary, amount of sick days taken dates of employment etc...

When you start giving personal references you open yourself up for trouble.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Heavyassweights said:


> time to drop @FelonE a pm and get him to break some skullllzzzzzzz (by PM)
> 
> add that to your lyrics felone


I'm a verbal hard cvnt mate. I'll give matey a right stiff talking too.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

JuggernautJake said:


> I've been working as a self employed personal trainer and martial arts coach while I was waiting to start my new job...I quit ASDA in august...got the job my new job in September since then I have worked self employed waiting to start...also turning down job offers waiting to start my perfect job!
> 
> How about having 1 sick day and never ever been late in 7 months of work...I would not consider that 1 out of 5... or "poor" as the manager ticked


If that's the case then IMO you have a case, however the risk you run is the new employer stating this isn't the only reason for them withdrawing their offer which is quite possible.

Personally, as angry as I would be too, I would probably let it go. The only reason being, persuing this could be months, if not years of pain and money for little return. By the time you succeed, if you succeed, you will be in a new job anyway. It's total bullsh*t but unfortunately this happens.

Bit like my ex-gf taking half my blooming house!!!!!!


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

sauliuhas said:


> within first 3 month they can do what ever they like, "3 month trail", but I think it was just an excuse.. sorry mate, it happens.. don't waist your time, find something else instead. With this case you just chasing the wind... G'luck!


I suspect this may be the case. If you were already working there then what does it matter what a reference says? They should be able to form there own opinion.

Also as far as the legal side, what would he achieve? I think he would be better off focusing his energies on getting another job.


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## Marvin Monkey (Nov 6, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> they left those closed questions blank...I had questions like that on the reference but they wern't answered
> 
> they also left the open questions blank simply putting N/A...things like briefly describe why the applicant is suitable for the role...N/A... I got an absolutely amazing review from my University lecturer
> 
> the only thing they did on the reference was tick boxes for 5 different things...honesty, punctuality, team working etc...I got fair 4 and poor for 1


As I've pointed out it's all to do with how your potential employer interprets the information (or lack of information) from your previous employer, leaving questions blank or putting N/A (rightly or wrongly) speaks volumes to a new employer. Again your new employer (or was going to be) will not be interested in your view on the references and will simply move onto the next candidate. I know that sucks for you but that's business I'm afraid.

Your only recourse is to initiate a data access request with ASDA who are legally required to provide you with any and all information on your employment with them. IF any of that information is incorrect, grossly unfair or unduly biased for no good reason then you have a case, a solicitor who deals with such issues is your best bet.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

JuggernautJake said:


> thanks man I've never had this problem in the past...honestly didn't think this could ever be a thing, I assumed there was some law in place to guarantee a good reference


my understanding was a company in the UK couldnt give a bad reference, they could only decline to give one.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

You need to get over it and move on. Not much you can do about it IMO....Chit happens. Channel your energy looking for a similar or better job.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Bensif said:


> If that's the case then IMO you have a case, however the risk you run is the new employer stating this isn't the only reason for them withdrawing their offer which is quite possible.
> 
> Personally, as angry as I would be too, I would probably let it go. The only reason being, persuing this could be months, if not years of pain and money for little return. By the time you succeed, if you succeed, you will be in a new job anyway. It's total bullsh*t but unfortunately this happens.
> 
> *Bit like my ex-gf taking half my blooming house!!!!!*!



View attachment 164078


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

banzi said:


> Asda is a huge company with a massive turnover of staff
> 
> Their HR team will be second to none regarding employment law and regulations
> 
> They would not have put something in his reference that they couldnt back up with evidence if requested.


That sir, is bollocks. I've had dealings with both Asda and Tesco and their HR teams, most likely the admin staff, are a complete bunch of incompetents. Delayed references are the norm, they'll most likely have something on file submitted by a disgruntled manager because you left them in the **** needing to find a replacement.

Anyway, in terms of giving a bad reference, it's a common misconception that you can't give a bad reference, what's the ****ing point of having a reference then! As long as the reference is factual, it can be as good or as bad as the person was.

I feel for you mste, I'd do as ACAS suggest and get a copy. Speak to the new employer directly, try and find out what was so bad in their eyes, offer additional references or extended probation period so you can prove yourself. Things like that may go in your favour.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DappaDonDave said:


> That sir, is bollocks. I've had dealings with both Asda and Tesco and their HR teams, *most likely* the admin staff, are a complete bunch of incompetents. Delayed references are the norm, they'll *most likely* have something on file submitted by a disgruntled manager because you left them in the **** needing to find a replacement.
> 
> Anyway, in terms of giving a bad reference, it's a common misconception that you can't give a bad reference, what's the ****ing point of having a reference then! As long as the reference is factual, it can be as good or as bad as the person was.
> 
> I feel for you mste, I'd do as ACAS suggest and get a copy. Speak to the new employer directly, try and find out what was so bad in their eyes, offer additional references or extended probation period so you can prove yourself. Things like that may go in your favour.


You do not fill me with confidence with the comments I bolded.


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

banzi said:


> You do not fill me with confidence with the comments I bolded.


Thankfully I've never worked for them, if it's their HR advisors providing the poor service, they're worse than I give them credit for.

Most likely you're an employment law expert...


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DappaDonDave said:


> Thankfully I've never worked for them, if it's their HR advisors providing the poor service, they're worse than I give them credit for.
> 
> Most likely you're an employment law expert...


So its 'likely' they are idiots, you have no idea?

You said you had dealings with them, obviously not or you wouldn't have used the word "likely"


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Well whatever you do you'll need to speak to the ASDA manager who have you the reference. If you let it go like some have suggested it's just going to bite you in the **** when your next employer is asking for a reference!


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## Keenam (Jan 24, 2010)

You're going about this in exactly the right way. Well done. Don't speak to the manager until you have copy and have taken advice then the convo can be done in writing so that it is clearly recorded.


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

Ok don't want to sound bad but maybe the new employee thought you wasn't good enough at the new job and used this as an excuse for dismissal? Most people don't admit when there crap at something so I can see why the thread was made, not everything is black and white..


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

just sacked a kid at our place

"but my time keepings perfect I`ve never been late" yeah but does fvck all when gets there, psses of early most days.

not saying you do, did or would OP


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