# Hitting the muscle once or twice?



## Plate (May 14, 2015)

What's everyone's take on how many times to hit the muscle in a week?

was having this debate with a friend and his point of view was that there isn't enough rest if you train then twice a week..

and do you think it makes a difference on how many times you should train the muscle weather you are on gear or not?

i have allways trained each muscle twice a week either on or off cycle, once a week seems nowhere near enough to me..


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Twice a week

Assisted once a week


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Prince Adam said:


> Twice a week
> 
> Assisted once a week


how come less when on?


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Done all sorts of various routines over last 20 years, twice a week is too much for me if not on gear. 5 days is definitely the sweet spot.

On gear on and twice a week is fine but not really a fan of ULUL routines. Too many to pack in in one session

Also I find some muscle can cope with twice a week whereas others struggle (if not on gear)

^^^^
All of the above assumes training to failure


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

No reason why you cannot train the same muscle 6 days in a row with one day off .

alot of russian strength routines have you squatting daily and pushing/pulling everyother .

some of my best gainz were had squatting daily and 3 x push 3 x pull sessions with one day off


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## Jamieson (Jul 11, 2014)

Frequency is purely down to the recovery ability of the individual, this in turn is dictated by various things like your tolerance of exercise, total volume per session, training intensity (as measured by intensity of effort not %1RM) and outside factors like sleep, stress levels and nutrition and AAS.

Having only just started using AAS - trained natty from 16/17 to 44 and have been on for 8 weeks now - I have found no difference in the systemic recovery or localised recovery in terms of time needed between workouts, currently doing ABA BAB so each body part gets hit once every 4/5 days, but obviously strength and size gains have gone through the roof.

One issue about training less frequently while on is that most guys up the volume and/or up the use of intensity and set extension techniques so need more localised recovery time before being able to train the body part again.

And localised recovery can be different for different muscle groups, Ie, some folk can train legs or chest or whatever every 3/4 days where they may well need a full week or even longer between back or arms etc.

Another thing to bare in mind is exercise choice and the amount of overlap you have in your complete routine. For instance doing CGB or dips for Triceps on a different day to Chest would mean you are actually training chest twice, or doing deads on back day and squats on leg day means both are hitting quads/hams and lower back, so again you're training legs/lower back inadvertently twice without necessarily realising it.


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## Jandir (Oct 8, 2015)

depends on the type of training.. if building muscle is the goal then ideally you want to hit the muscle as soon as its recovered from the last sesh. VERY rarely do intermediate/advanced trainers need a whole week to recover a muscle group. so imo hitting it twice a week is deffo the optimal

then you've got powerlifters, strongmen etc who's CNS will take more of a pounding under the stress of massive weights. there muscles might be recovered but the CNS will likely req more time. you'll get away with hammering it hard with a high training frequency, but eventually you'll need a week or so off to recover


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

IMO I much prefer hitting them once a week. Suits my lifestyle - by all means if you have the opportunity to train every day and recover then crack on.

but for me with family and full time work it's hard enough getting 4session a week in.

i also find the UL routines are great for legs but far to much to do on the upper days.... IMO


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Hitting each muscle once a week just doesn't do it for me. My best gains ever (when I was natty) came from full body 3x a week, and for the past 18 months I've been doing each bodypart twice a week on a two-way split - once heavy with a power movement & once with a hypertrophy style workout.

I've been reading up about very frequent training (daily squatting) and it sort of makes sense. Rather than grinding muscles to a pulp once a week, hit them little & often.

Been looking for a complete change of style, and I'm considering giving it a go


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Cheers for the responses!

@Major Eyeswater what did your routine look like on the full body workout 3x a week? You tried that routine while assisted?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I definitely grow/get stronger hitting em twice over once


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

2x for the win....


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

FelonE said:


> I definitely grow/get stronger hitting em twice over once


you ever tried just hitting them once a week?

this is where it gets me too, I have allways hit all muscles a lot 2x a week and my head won't let me drop down to once through fear of withering away lol

suppose everones different.. Might just have to give it a go..


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Plate said:


> you ever tried just hitting them once a week?
> 
> this is where it gets me too, I have allways hit all muscles a lot 2x a week and my head won't let me drop down to once through fear of withering away lol
> 
> suppose everones different.. Might just have to give it a go..


Yeah was doing once a week up until a few weeks ago. Prefer twice a week mate


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Natty, it makes no sense to hit them once a week, when it's been proven time and time again that protein synthesis in the muscle is only elevated for 48 hours or less regardless of how much you mash it into a pulp. Certainly not saying it won't work, just it likely won't work as well as twice a week.

Assisted, I still train them twice a week, always given me better results than mashing a muscle once a week. It's never too much if you balance the volume right, upper/lower splits or something similar are a good way to ensure you do it right. If you half the volume (compared to a normal 1x a week split, so for example instead of 4 chest exercises once weekly you do 2 chest exercises twice weekly) then you can double the frequency, simple as that really.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I said:


> Natty, it makes no sense to hit them once a week, when it's been proven time and time again that protein synthesis in the muscle is only elevated for 48 hours or less regardless of how much you mash it into a pulp.
> 
> Assisted, I still train them twice a week, always given me better results than mashing a muscle once a week. It's never too much if you balance the volume right, upper/lower splits or something similar are a good way to ensure you do it right. If you half the volume (compared to a normal 1x a week split, so for example instead of 4 chest exercises once weekly you do 2 chest exercises twice weekly) then you can double the frequency, simple as that really.


I read a study the other day that suggested the 48 hour window you've referenced is only for newbie trainers, when you become an 'intermediate trainer' the window becomes more like 16 hours. Suggesting that as your training age grows, your frequency needs to increase, also.

(on tapatalk but I'll try to find a link)


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Monday upper

Tues lower

Wed off

Thurs off

Fri upper

sat lower

sun off

Repeat.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

when i use Fortitude Training (start again next week) i train all body parts 3 times a week, last off season i did this i gained 5kg of lean tissue in 18months (shown by Dexa scans) if you have a decent muscle base training a muscle once a week is not the most effective way to train/grow...imo


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Too many people to quote,...

To the guys that hit them twice aweek, do you go to all out failure? Once every 5 days for me means including drop sets, failure on every exercise

Doing a tough routine twice a week is too much for me. It's OK for month or two but over the long run i really start to fatigue.

Having said all that i might have a crack at twice a week and ease up on the intensity. Also rather than pack in 10 or so exercises in the U day I'll rotate around.

Been a long time since I've tried it. Change is always good!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

what people need to understand is that it is very rare that someone can train at maximum intensity going to failure for months and months without having a low week or off week, any sensible person who trains will periodise their training to incorporate rest weeks......

plus many on this thread have mentioned going to failure on every set blah blah when you train a body part more than once a week, i can bet that few go to failure training a body part once a week.....

to progress in the gym you do not need to go to failure on every set in fact if you do your CNS will soon be shot, imo stopping 1-2 reps shy of failure then going to failure on your final working set for an exercise is more beneficial than going to failure on every set in the long run.......

and that is what needs to be considered the long term gain.........


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Apart from back, if my job schedule allows i try to hit every muscle twice.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

how would one typically train the body twice a week.

I feel upper/lower is great for legs but far too much on upper day to hit.

shoulders/arms/chest/back - that s a lot to hits is it not?


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## Jamieson (Jul 11, 2014)

herc said:


> how would one typically train the body twice a week.
> 
> I feel upper/lower is great for legs but far too much on upper day to hit.
> 
> shoulders/arms/chest/back - that s a lot to hits is it not?


Just depends how many sets/total volume you do. If you use lower vol like DC then its 1 work set for Chest, Delts and Triceps and then 3 for back (1 set of a chin/pulldown type movement and 2 sets of rows or deads) 6 sets for the whole upper body, apart from Biceps, isn't too much for anyone I don't think.

as for how to set up a twice a week routine, I use a more conventional HIT Upper/Lower on an ABA BAB split, training on any 3 non consecutive days a week or if I feel recovered I can switch it to EoD. The workouts are short but intense and the first 2 this week took 33 mins for Upper and 25 mins for lower from start to finish. Admittedly I rest only long enough to catch my breadth and not feel nauseous between exercises but perform each work set with smooth controlled reps with each set lasting between 50-120 seconds.

Upper had the following working sets per body part:

Back 4, Chest 2, delts 2, Triceps 1, biceps 1, forearms 1.

To help cut down the rest between sets and to avoid grip fatigue I alternate the push/pull movements, but still complete my total sets per body part in less time than if I did them conventionally and did all sets for each body part in order, ie, back first, then chest, on to delts etc.

Don't get too caught up in the amount of work you have to do for upper, it's the quality of the work you do not the quantum that counts. Sure, if you were doing 12-20 sets per body part an Upper/lower is no good but for low or lowish volume they work very well.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> what people need to understand is that it is very rare that someone can train at maximum intensity going to failure for months and months without having a low week or off week, any sensible person who trains will periodise their training to incorporate rest weeks......
> 
> plus many on this thread have mentioned going to failure on every set blah blah when you train a body part more than once a week, i can bet that few go to failure training a body part once a week.....
> 
> ...


All good points but I'll bet also many who say they hit failure are no where actually near it...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Galaxy said:


> All good points but I'll bet also many who say they hit failure are no where actually near it...


Totally agree


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## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

I've decided to give twice a week a go. It feels strange training a muscle again when it's still sore. I have in effect split the exercises and sets between 2 workouts instead now. Is that the best way to do it in anyone who's had success opinion?


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Plate said:


> Cheers for the responses!
> 
> @Major Eyeswater what did your routine look like on the full body workout 3x a week? You tried that routine while assisted?


Routine was Squats, Bench, Pulldown, Shoulder press, Pulley Rows, Curls, Pushdowns. Warm-up.then two sets to failure. Once a week I would use weights that made me hit failure at 15-20 reps, once a week 8-11 and once a week 4-6. The heavy day usually involved a drop of 10% in weight for the second set.

I did it for just over a year natty, then about 9 months assisted. Fantastic results both ways. Only downside was that it got a bit tedious.

I record all my workouts on an excel spreadsheet, and because I'm a business analyst for a living, I can crunch the data down to show exactly where I'm making progress & where I'm not - which was very useful for my first couple of cycles.

Only stopped because I wanted to experiment with some different styles. I tried GVT - which I didn't seem to gain much from, then went onto the routine I'm using now, which is based on Layne Norton's Power / Hypertrophy - but split PPL rather than upper/lower


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## AgoSte (Apr 14, 2015)

IMO... You should jeep a three day workout program and you train when you feel like you can, wether it is 3/4/5/6 times a week... (So once a week, almost twice, or twice).

I don't know if I managed to explain


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Two things to look at with this, studies and people's experiences.

Clinical studies, of which there have been a few good ones recently, suggest that for most people (both new to training and experienced trainers) grow slightly better when volume per workout is slightly smaller and training frequency more frequent - so as an average twice a week shows better results than once a week.

There are a few limitations with these studies though in that they match total training volume as a control, so compare doing either 5 sets twice a week or 10 sets per body part once per week. This therefore doesn't say what will happen if someone only trains a body part once per week but does more volume in one session that they could from the total of two shorter sessions, say 12 sets once a week versus 5 sets twice a week, nor does it say what might happen the other way if someone compared say 10 sets once a week or 6-7 sets twice per week.

The second thing is that although the average from these studies is better for higher frequency, for some people lower frequency works better - just a much smaller number of people. This means that higher frequency shouldn't be universally hailed as better.

In regards to anecdotal stuff something that has to be talked about is compliance, in that although the average for higher frequency seems better it's only a tiny bit better, and it may be that some people with naturally poor recovery ability or a difficult schedule for training a lot, training less frequently might work better for them to keep them training more consistently and therefore do better long term than by doing a workout they can't stick to.

Personally I believe in higher frequency. Twice, or even three times per week being great, and at the outside once every five days. You can certainly grow and gain strength on less, but I think for most people training more often works better.

The caveat though is that you have to train smart and balance the volume per session to the training frequency. I also think that introducing a periodized element can sustain progress longer, where you simultaneously increase loading and drop volume week by week to a point of going really pretty heavy, then do a couple of weeks of over-reaching using post-failure stuff like drop sets, negatives, forced reps etc, then a brief deload and then back to higher volume lower loads and start the cycle again.


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## Jandir (Oct 8, 2015)

im doing a PPL 2x a week... & im struggling to hit everything as hard as I feel I should be tbh. close to switching back to my old split

mon-chest

tues- back

wed-delts

thurs- legs

fri- arms

sat- off

sun-repeat


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

dtlv said:


> Two things to look at with this, studies and people's experiences.
> 
> Clinical studies, of which there have been a few good ones recently, suggest that for most people (both new to training and experienced trainers) grow slightly better when volume per workout is slightly smaller and training frequency more frequent -* so as an average twice* a week shows better results than once a week.
> 
> ...


Interesting

i am just back from the gym, doing twice a week at the moment. Definitely I can't hit the same strength as once every 5 days, Same yesterday, 2 reps down on leg press and today 2 reps down on bench.

Whether its good for overall muscle building (for me) is probably too early to tell. Once thing is for sure is that I am not recovering fully in 3 days off. And that is even with gear. Maybe my age is a factor. Also I am not doing the same volume per session when training twice a week

I have a lot of reservations about twice a week and in favour of every 5 days with high volume. However change is good and been surprised before so open to see what will happen this time


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> .


I agree


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> No reason why you cannot train the same muscle 6 days in a row with one day off .
> 
> alot of russian strength routines have you squatting daily and pushing/pulling everyother .
> 
> some of my best gainz were had squatting daily and 3 x push 3 x pull sessions with one day off


i like the sound of that, can't wait to get physio done and start squatting again!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Also I am not doing the same volume per session when training twice a week


How much have you reduced the volume by?


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

I currently train Chest, Triceps, Shoulders on a Monday heavy and aim for 3 x 5-8 reps. As this is an area of weakness I have also been doing the same session again on a Thursday or Friday.

The Thurs/Fri sessions are lighter and I aim for around 3 x 8-12. For example Bench Heavy is 65kg and bench lighter is 50kg 3 x 12, so thats a 30% difference. Millitary press is around a 40% difference ( 45kg and 32.5kg), CGBP (20%).

Should I operate in this Heavy Lighter fashion? Or would it be better to go heavy on both days? There is either a 3 day gap then 2 day gap, or 2 day gap then 3 day gap. At the minute the Lighter session isn't impacting the Heavy session to my knowledge.

Are there any ways of calculating what % my lighter day should be in comparison to my heavy? Or the range between total volume lifted?

At the minute, they both work on an adhoc basis. Increasing the weight when I reach 6-8 reps (heavy) or 10-12(lighter) and if I don't make the target reducing the weight for the 2nd or 3rd set.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Depends how I feel. Since iv been back training I'll hit back and legs once a week, chest twice, and shoulders and triceps almost every session.


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## ImAwesome (Sep 26, 2015)

I don't think it has to be *once* a week or *twice* a week. I think I've found a decent balance in between. I'll do 3 days on like this: Chest, Shoulders/Triceps, Back/Biceps and then have 2 days rest before re-starting my 3 days. Outside of that I do legs every Monday regardless.

So to make things look a bit clearer;

Monday - Legs (legs every monday)

Tuesday - Chest

Wednesday - Shoulders/Triceps

Thursday - Back/Biceps

Friday - REST

Saturday - REST

Sunday - Chest

Monday - Shoulders/Triceps

..and so on


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