# Hypertrophy for Size



## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

I have put together a new routine to try and gain a little size! Mainly my chest and my back! I am pretty lean just now and dont fancy the bulking iidea i would rather do it slowly without gaining to much fat! obviously i have upped my cals but nothing drastic that is gonna see me lose my abs. I train 3-4 times at the gym so sometimes miss leg days as i have football training twice per week and a football match on a saturday so that does my cardio.

I think the Back and Chest routine are ok but im unsure about the shoulders bi's and tri's.

I am looking for opinions on what you think could be tweaked or added in. I am pretty in-experienced at putting together programmes so this may be rubbish!

All exercises have 5 mins fast paced on the cross trainer to warm up.

most exercises are 4 sets with 12 reps...if i complete the reps on all 4 sets then i will up the weight the next time.

Ps sorry for my description on some of the exercises!! :innocent:

*Back*

*
*

Strict Pull Ups - 4 x 10

Bent over BB rows - 4 x 12 (40kg+bar)

Superset with Close Grip Pressups - 4 x 12

Seated Row Close Grip Wide Elbows - 4 x 12 (30kg)

Superset with Close Grip Pressups 4 x 12

Lat Pulldown Behind the Neck - 4 x 12 (40kg)

Standing Lat Pulldown 4 x 12 (20kg) Standing with arms straight just wider than shoulder width on a straight bar, going from above eye level bringin down to waist with straight arms. Bar connected to cable point above headPull

Superset with Close Grip Pull up 4 x 12

Cable Crossover - 4 x 12 (6.25kg) Pulling from Chest at shoulder height to straight arm as if you were standing in the shape of a T.

*Chest*

Dips 4 x 15 at body weight

Incline Bench - 4 x 12 (50kg+bar)

Superset with Hammer Curl DB - 4 x 12 (10kg)

Flat Bench 4 x 12 (55kg+bar)

Superset with Hammer Curl DB 4 x 12 (10kg)

Weighted Dips - 4 x 12 (10kg plate)

Cable Flys - 2 sets of the following:

30 x 7.5kg

15 x 10kg

8 x 12.5kg

4 x 15kg

8 x 12.5kg

15 x 10kg

30 x 7.5kg

*
Shoulders, Bi's & Tri's *3 exercises done at a time as a circuit set 1 of each exercises then rest

Arnold Press - 3 x 12 (12kg DB)

Hammer Curl - 3 x 12 (10kg DB)

Close Grip Press Up - 3 x 12

EZ bar upright Row - 3 x 12 (15kg+bar)

EZ bar curl - 3 x 12 - (10kg+bar)

Closegrip Press Ups - 3 x 12

Cable Front Raise Bar - 3 x 12 (10kg)

Cable Side Raises - 3 x 12 (7.5kg)

EZ Bar Overhand Curl - 3 x 12 (10kg+bar)

*Legs*

Squats - 1 x 20 (40kg+bar)

4 x 12 (80kg+bar)

Seated Quad Extensions - 4 x 12 (80kg)

Calf Raises Using Barbell - 4 x 12 (100kg+bar)

Seated Leg Press - 4 x 12 (200kg)

Lunges - 4 x 12 with 16kg DB in hand


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## Wong (Sep 12, 2014)

Think about adding in stretching between sets, especially if certain muscles are stubborn to grow. Look up the FST-7 routine by Hany Rambod.

Most things are dependent on your own body, but I do find adding in some higher rep as well work for arms and shoulders makes a big difference for me as well as keeping very short rest times (<30 sec).


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## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Just a typical bro split, I don't see the point myself.
> 
> If you want to get bigger, increase frequency. Hit bodyparts 2-3x a week.


so basically try split all the muscle groups into 2 sessions and try push for 4 workouts per week? or 3 full body sessions?

i thought about doing full body workouts but how many exercises would i need per body part?

3 chest, 3 back, 3 shoulders and hope that the bi's and tri's get hit within the other muscle groups?


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## Jamieson (Jul 11, 2014)

If you're natty then simply train your whole body twice a week if you're training to MMF or 3 times if you're stopping short of failure, as you're recovery quicker, but won't stimulate as much growth as quickly. Regardless of BB orthodoxy I or 2 working sets per body part is all you need if they are done properly, i.e., you use proper form, a slow and controlled rep speed of at least 4/4 and are giving it your all on every working set. If you're training hard doing any more sets is a waste of time and just eats in to your recovery time.

Chose an exercise from each of the 6 main planes of movement, I certainly wouldn't bother with Elbow Flexion and Xts - i.e., curls and tricep extensions of any sort, as you will make far more progress by adding 10lbs on your weighted dips and chins regularly then you will curling or doing skulls.

As for missing leg day, utter nonsense, just because you play footie doesn't mean you shouldn't train your legs. A basic programme with Deads and squats will make your whole body grow so don't skip them just because they are hard work.

Anyway, bets of luck!


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## Wong (Sep 12, 2014)

If you want to try higher frequency training, I think Layne Norton has quite a bit of info to make that work best. Also look up HST training everyone I know that has tried it has got very good results for the first few months, but you need to cycle it. Plus you don't get DOMS which is a massive bonus when you play sport.


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## Jb1983 (Oct 8, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> Either full body workouts.
> 
> Upper/Lower workouts.
> 
> ...


Hi,

What would be your suggestions for your full-body routine above for sets and reps and assistance work..

Thanks in advance.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

personally that back routine looks OTT for a natty.

personally an upper/ lower or PPL, but training 4 times a week would be better IMO.

Also a tip. Use straps for all your back work and releax your grip, you'll get tons more back stimulation


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

simonthepieman said:


> personally that back routine looks OTT for a natty.
> 
> personally an upper/ lower or PPL, but training 4 times a week would be better IMO.
> 
> Also a tip. Use straps for all your back work and releax your grip, you'll get tons more back stimulation


Some great advice as ever from @simonthepieman


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## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> personally that back routine looks OTT for a natty.
> 
> personally an upper/ lower or PPL, but training 4 times a week would be better IMO.
> 
> Also a tip. Use straps for all your back work and releax your grip, you'll get tons more back stimulation


so pretty much make it simple?

day1 - deadlifts, bent over rows and weighted pull ups?

day 2 - bench, military press and weighted dips?

day 3 - squats, lunges and calf raises?

day 4 - start over again from day 1

do you think that something along they lines would be more beneficial?


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

p.cullen said:


> *Back*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


I have nearly 20 years total training under my belt & I'm on gear. That routine would be too much volume for me.

Simplify it. Massively


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I have nearly 20 years total training under my belt & I'm on gear. That routine would be too much volume for me.
> 
> Simplify it. Massively


I agree... 32 sets on back. Just don't see how you can make each set count when doing that much. Almost 3 times the amount of sets I'd do.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

2004mark said:


> I agree... 32 sets on back. Just don't see how you can make each set count when doing that much. Almost 3 times the amount of sets I'd do.


The highest I'm going is 15 sets for shoulders - but that's because I'm trying to bring them up at the moment, and that's once a week. By the time I've worked through that, I literally cannot move my arms properly.

My other shoulder workout is just 4 sets of seated presses.

The most productive routine I ever followed when I was natty was a full body / 3x a week routine. 2 working sets per bodypart. I gained fantasically on that, and would reccomend it to anyone.


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## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Just take a proven routine and use it. Stop trying to create something yourself.
> 
> Lyle McDonalds GBR
> 
> ...


I find alot of the routines i have looked at have exercises i dont like doing so i would need to swap them with something else thats why i am trying to find one thats suited to me.



2004mark said:


> I agree... 32 sets on back. Just don't see how you can make each set count when doing that much. Almost 3 times the amount of sets I'd do.


I dont really mind the volume of the workout i dont find it to much. but if i will benefit more by doing less then it is definitely something i am willing to look at. ive said it before i havent got much experience on this field so i am open to all suggestions


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

p.cullen said:


> so pretty much make it simple?
> 
> day1 - deadlifts, bent over rows and weighted pull ups?
> 
> ...


If you did that, i have no doubt you'd be 100% successful.

By all means, throw in the some extra fluff here and there, but you nail those 3 lifts and keep progressing the gains will come


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

Training split when train every body part once a week and completely destroy it is ok when taking gear, bc even if you crush it with enormous volume and weight, it will still grow bc of the juice.

On the other hand when being natural, I found this type of training useless. As natty you should hit every body part at least twice a week, not to kill it in one session. You give it a stimuli on Monday for example, the next two days it will recover (or grow eventually) and then what? Waiting 4 or more days for another stimuli (+ hormone release with heavy compound movements).

Stick with frequency...look at cyclist and tell me they got small legs


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

2004mark said:


> I agree... 32 sets on back. Just don't see how you can make each set count when doing that much. Almost 3 times the amount of sets I'd do.


Really, with volume training like this, the point is less "make every set count", more "let the volume and cumulative fatigue take care of the hypertrophy". Does indeed work for some, not my cup of tea though, like you said this is about 3x my normal volume.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

p.cullen said:


> I find alot of the routines i have looked at have exercises i dont like doing so i would need to swap them with something else thats why i am trying to find one thats suited to me.


So then swap the exercises with similar ones that suit you better. Saying that, I don't particularly "like" doing high rep squats - they're ****ing painful and make me want to be sick - but I do them, because they bloody well work :thumbup1:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> The highest I'm going is 15 sets for shoulders - but that's because I'm trying to bring them up at the moment, and that's once a week. By the time I've worked through that, I literally cannot move my arms properly.
> 
> My other shoulder workout is just 4 sets of seated presses.
> 
> The most productive routine I ever followed when I was natty was a full body / 3x a week routine. 2 working sets per bodypart. I gained fantasically on that, and would reccomend it to anyone.


My shoulder routine that I've gained better than any other routine on (this is on an upper/lower type split):

Session one:

Arnold presses - warmup set, set to failure, dropset.

Session two:

Standing DB shoulder presses - warmup set, set to failure, push-press/cheats to failure.

Short. Sweet. Brutal. Effective. :thumbup1:


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

> My shoulder routine that I've gained better than any other routine on (this is on an upper/lower type split):
> 
> Session one:
> 
> ...


Do you even shoulder?


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

VeneCZ said:


> Training split when train every body part once a week and completely destroy it is ok when taking gear, bc even if you crush it with enormous volume and weight, it will still grow bc of the juice.
> 
> On the other hand when being natural, I found this type of training useless. As natty you should hit every body part at least twice a week, not to kill it in one session. You give it a stimuli on Monday for example, the next two days it will recover (or grow eventually) and then what? Waiting 4 or more days for another stimuli (+ hormone release with heavy compound movements).
> 
> Stick with frequency...look at cyclist and tell me they got small legs


This is very true.

Natural trainers are much better training frequently but with low volume. One of the ways that gear works is by enabling you to recover from grinding your muscles into a paste - I certainly manage to cope with workouts now that would have half killed me when I was natty. But you still have the recovery time to deal with - a high volume workout still takes 3-4 days to recover from.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

VeneCZ said:


> Training split when train every body part once a week and completely destroy it is ok when taking gear, bc even if you crush it with enormous volume and weight, it will still grow bc of the juice.
> 
> On the other hand when being natural, I found this type of training useless. As natty you should hit every body part at least twice a week, not to kill it in one session. You give it a stimuli on Monday for example, the next two days it will recover (or grow eventually) and then what? Waiting 4 or more days for another stimuli (+ hormone release with heavy compound movements).
> 
> Stick with frequency...look at cyclist and tell me they got small legs


Totally agree with this: I hit all my body parts twice a week.

I also start all my workouts going heavy with compounds, then do isolation exercises concentrating on getting a good squeeze/contraction. Been getting awesome gains on this bulk using this (and I'm natty).


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Btw OP, you need to do experimentation to find exactly what works for you. And I wouldn't limit my rep ranges to just 10 for example, use all types of rep ranges and you will see great gains.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Squat, dead, bench -- each once a week on separate days. Put weight on the bar. Tried, tested and time proven. Works natural or juiced.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

SK50 said:


> Squat, dead, bench -- each once a week on separate days. Put weight on the bar. Tried, tested and time proven. Works natural or juiced.


I would add OHP in there as well - an underrated compound movement.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

zyphy said:


> I would add OHP in there as well - an underrated compound movement.


Agreed. My post was intentionally succinct. Assistance is a given.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> I'd rather train them 2-3x a week, seeing as our body is very capable of doing so.


Of course you can. You can squat every day if you like. All oly lifters and some powerlifters train that way. But volume must be balanced with frequency for it to work. No one squats til they drop 3 times a week.

I am a fan of high frequency lifting but once a week blast & bomb is the most tried, tested, and convenient for most lifters.


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

Plenty of people have probably told you this already mate but there are a tonne of physique related problems that can be solved by doing two things 1. Forget about your abs and get in a caloric surplus 2. Get a $hitload stronger on the big movements, until you can squat 4 plates bench 3 and deadlift 5 or more do not even think about doing much else....just my two cents bud, all the best.


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

As far as routines go mate pick something lime icf 5x5, stronglifts or 5/3/1 and give it a good 12 month run....have fun!


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

TommyBananas said:


> Just take a proven routine and use it. Stop trying to create something yourself.
> 
> Lyle McDonalds GBR
> 
> ...


this.. op take a look at lyels GBR and get an idea of the amount of exercises and sets for a U/L and then program your own.

mine currently looks like:

monday upper:

bench press (6x2 heavy OR 8x3moderate OR 3x8-12light. basically using a modified cube rotation)

pendlay rows 3x5

incline DB press 2-3x8-12

pullups 3xAMRAP

OHP 3x5

tuesday lower:

cube programming for squat

wednesday off.

thursday upper:

flat DB press

weighted chins

weighted dips

Tbar row

friday:

cube programming for deadlifts


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## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

I have had a look online at some PPL splits and have found one that suits. I have tried the 3 sessions but i dont really feel that i am doing enough?? I know for a natty sometimes less is more but is this true in this instance or should i be doing more?

*Push*

Flat Bench 3 x 5

Military Press 3 x 5

Incline DB Press 3 x 8

Side Lat Raise 3 x 8

Overhead Tricep Ext 3 x 8

Barbell Shrug 2 x 15

*Pull*

Deadlift 2 x 5

Barbell Bent over row 3 x 5

Pull Up 4 x 6

Curl of your choice 3 x 8

Face Pulls 3 x 15

*Legs*

Back Squat 3 x 5

Front Squat 3 x 6

Hamstring Curl 4 x 8

Standing Calf Raise 4 x 12


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

The problem I find when working out a routine is that everyone's got s different opinion. If you put 20 body builders in a room and asked them to write out there programme you'd get 20 different answers. The trick is to find what works for you and stick to it imo


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

p.cullen said:


> I have had a look online at some PPL splits and have found one that suits. I have tried the 3 sessions but i dont really feel that i am doing enough?? I know for a natty sometimes less is more but is this true in this instance or should i be doing more?
> 
> *Push*
> 
> ...


If you were doing it twice a week its plenty.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

p.cullen said:


> ..should i be doing more?


If you finish your workout thinking "should I have done more ?", then you probably weren't training hard enough.

My workouts are typically 20-25 working sets when I'm on cycle and 10-15 off-cycle.

I seldom come out of a workout thinking "I could have got a few more sets in there." In fact, I'm more likely to be wondering if I can make it to my laptop & delete my browser history before I die.


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