# head position while squatting



## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

Mark Rippetoe says to look down, it helps with hip drive. The guy in the elite fts video 'so you think you can squat' says to keep your head up, to keep the bar trapped. They both seem to make sense. Just wondering what people thought.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I look at a point slightly above my eyeline during set up and keep my eyes on that point throughout the lift. This gives me a pretty neutral head position tbh, slightly head up if anything.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

I generally phase out when i squat vision wise. But my head is generally neutral or slightly elevated as Mingster's is.


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

I get told up look up. I thought it was because your body follows what your head is doing so naturally you'll drive in that direction.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

i just look forward


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I think the most important thing is to make sure you keep your head in the same position while squatting. The angle itself doesn't make much difference imo.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

I go by the 'imagine your holding a tennis ball under your chin' method


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

look 30% up from level as it keeps the shoulders back and lets the bar rest further down rather than close to the neck...

It works for me anyway


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

looks like 'up' gets the vote!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Rippertoe does demonstrate that looking at the floor (neutral spine) allows you move more weight.


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

I'd say look up, this also helps you to keep your back tight, shoulder blades together, which really helps your squat


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

powerhousepeter said:


> I'd say look up, this also helps you to keep your back tight, shoulder blades together, which really helps your squat


But Rip says this kills hip drive?


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

I don't see how you can keep a tight back with your head down, plus ud feel like your guna fall forward surely


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

i can understand why people are told to look up.. or look forward or to keep there heads in a natural position.... but when looking down? could this lead to bending the back and effect how some one would hold an arch...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

If you look at Rippetoes forum, there are numerous videos of people squatting. As soon as there is any significant weight on the bar, they all do a good morning. Why? Because they are looking down.


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Read op, am answering before reading others answers....

Here goes....

My form on squatting is still a bit rough round the edges since my back injury, i don't look right down, but look between down and eye level(mentally i push away from this point)...i am ALWAYS being screamed at to *at least* look slightly up, as high as possible.....when i look lower(and get shouted at) i feel more comfortable, if a little less stable when going heavy, not sure if thats a mental thing though....now no comp is looming i will investigate and report back *my* findings as i go for 1 rep max mostly so will hopefully be able to see a difference.....will post findings in my journal


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

rectus said:


> Rippertoe does demonstrate that looking at the floor (neutral spine) allows you move more weight.


This is why i am willing to guinae pig looking down...i want power over anything else


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

Ser said:


> Read op, am answering before reading others answers....
> 
> Here goes....
> 
> My form on squatting is still a bit rough round the edges since my back injury, i don't look right down, but look between down and eye level(mentally i push away from this point)...i am ALWAYS being screamed at to *at least* look slightly up, as high as possible.....when i look lower(and get shouted at) i feel more comfortable, if a little less stable when going heavy, not sure if thats a mental thing though....now no comp is looming i will investigate and report back *my* findings as i go for 1 rep max mostly so will hopefully be able to see a difference.....will post findings in my journal


It does seem counter intuitive, but rippetoe does say that looking down gives you more power. In one of his videos he demonstrates it.


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

Ser said:


> This is why i am willing to guinae pig looking down...i want power over anything else


TBH, I just want to not break form! Like you, I've got a recurring back injury and if my form slips and my lower back comes into play it goes into spasm at the drop of a hat. Currently squatting very light and going up in tiny increments!


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

chilli said:


> It does seem counter intuitive, but rippetoe does say that looking down gives you more power. In one of his videos he demonstrates it.


What does rippetoe know though hay ;-)


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

chilli said:


> TBH, I just want to not break form! Like you, I've got a recurring back injury and if my form slips and my lower back comes into play it goes into spasm at the drop of a hat. Currently squatting very light and going up in tiny increments!


I would say if you have got a back injury, you definitely want to look ahead/up and puff your chest out, looking down seems like it will give more chance of rounding your back and causing a problem.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

It's not looking down as such, it's the position that puts the cervical and thoracic spine in its natural position. You're looking ahead, but you can't see yourself in the mirror.

I would say that if you have spine issues then it may be advisable to stay away from the squat (seek professional advice if you haven't already), some guys like Bill DeSimone recommend the leg press over the squat anyway because the spine is like a pyramid in its structure and the analogy he uses is that you wouldn't put a flat table top on the top of a pyramid.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

rectus said:


> It's not looking down as such, it's the position that puts the cervical and thoracic spine in its natural position. You're looking ahead, but you can't see yourself in the mirror.
> 
> I would say that if you have spine issues then it may be advisable to stay away from the squat (seek professional advice if you haven't already), some guys like Bill DeSimone recommend the leg press over the squat anyway because the spine is like a pyramid in its structure and the analogy he uses is that you wouldn't put a flat table top on the top of a pyramid.


but u wouldnt push a pyramid up against a flat surface lol


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Head neutral so neither up or down this keeps neck pressure down and helps hip drive but my eyes stay at eye level throughout .


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> but u wouldnt push a pyramid up against a flat surface lol


Well I've simplified something that's complex so here's the information in depth:


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Neutral or slightly up... if you're looking down pick up the nearest blunt object and hit yourself with it repeatedly


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Ripptoe is like a skinny steroid dealer why the fcuk would you listen to him when he looks like sh1t and doesn't lift anything worthy of his good rep that being said he speaks a lot of sense .

I would take advice from a handful of people and the one person I would listen to over anybody is Fred hatfield , I've had some lengthy chats with the guy and he is someone I look up to .


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## -dionysus- (May 29, 2011)

This is a complex one and all depending on your technique, body shape flexibility and goals.

Head position for me is neutral looking at a point 30deg up, with my head driving back into the bar (keeps the upper back tight). Now this works for me as my bar position is neither high (think olympic style) or low ( Powerlifters) and my stance quite wide. My hip drive and glute engagement are my weak points so have tried to widen my stance further.

If you have a low bar position and a wide stance your back would be tighter already- the elbows tend to point down more which also helps keep the back tight. (get a barbell and load it a 50% and try it)

Most powerlifters use this technique as some have rightly pointed out it enables them to move more weight (less distance travelled and the hips and glutes take more of the load.)

The squat is in my opinion the most technical lift, and even those that have been doing it for years are still learning things that will help.

I suggest you stip the back to 50% and try new things. You might find that looking down with a low bar position works better for you.

By the way if you a pad ignore everything I've said and ask yourself why your such a pussy


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

-dionysus- said:


> This is a complex one and all depending on your technique, body shape flexibility and goals.
> 
> Head position for me is neutral looking at a point 30deg up, with my head driving back into the bar (keeps the upper back tight). Now this works for me as my bar position is neither high (think olympic style) or low ( Powerlifters) and my stance quite wide. My hip drive and glute engagement are my weak points so have tried to widen my stance further.
> 
> ...


excuse me?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

chilli said:


> excuse me?


i read that bit 3 times and still dont get the first half lol


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## -dionysus- (May 29, 2011)

LOL.

There are whole books written on the squat and I have to remember that not everyone is obsessed with the squat.

High bar/low bar refers to where you place the bar on your back. Olympic lifters style lifters tend to go high bar, powerlifters low bar. The bar position affects your form, there are so many variables and you should try new things if your squat stalls.

I posted this before It's from a twitter chat a couple of weeks ago with Dave Tate from elitefts - if you want to get strong well worth a visit if you've not done so before.

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #1 - thinking its not technical and simple #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #2 - not setting up TIGHT from head to toe. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #3 - not arching the bar out of the rack. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #4 - not starting with a arch and ass back #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #5 - pulling air into your chest and not belly #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #6 - looking up instead of driving head and traps into the bar #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #7 - not spreading the floor and pushing knees out. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #8 - sitting down instead of back #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #9 - moving hips first out of the hole. The head and chest must move back first #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #10 - not using compensatory acceleration on the concentric phase. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #11 - looking down when the lift gets hard. When it gets hard drive head into the bar. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #12 - not using a box squat in one form or another. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #13 - not squatting with people stronger than you. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #14 - thinking there is a huge difference between squat training for raw vs geared. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #15 - not having an honest person watching your depth #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #16 - slacking on training your core. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #17 - being a pussy that is scared of big weights. #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #18 - not rotating bars - this can allow for same volume and intensity with a reduction in workload #Eliteftschat

Dave (CEO elitefts) [email protected]

Squat Mistake #19 - thinking you know it all when you don't know "squat" #Eliteftschat


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ewen said:


> Ripptoe is like a skinny steroid dealer why the fcuk would you listen to him when he looks like sh1t and doesn't lift anything worthy of his good rep that being said he speaks a lot of sense .
> 
> I would take advice from a handful of people and the one person I would listen to over anybody is Fred hatfield , I've had some lengthy chats with the guy and he is someone I look up to .


He's a powerlifter... they don't care about aesthetics, just raw power. Plus he had shoulder surgery so he can't lift like he used to. He's highly respected by fellow powerlifters. You said he speaks sense, so what is your problem with him? I am confused by your post. I bought his book (should be delivered soon) because the guys teaching methods are clear and concise and he clearly understands biomechanics.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Powerlifters use a low bar position and lean forward more than is good for them as this enables them to lift greater weights. It also places their lower backs in a vulnerable position which is prone to injury. Off season powerlifters usually revert back to Olympic style squatting to minimize this risk between competitions.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

I use an old style Ukrainian weightlifting squat technique used by Ihor Mykhaylovych Rybak - that gives huge balance - look straight ahead and as declining turn your head to the left - at the bottom of the squat head will be as far left as it can turn - look straight - and as moving upwards turn the head right at the top the head as far right as it can turn- look straight.

Its an amazing technique and hard to get used to but it should work in one fluid movement. You will notice a great difference in the gym !! try them out - see how it works for you


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

rectus said:


> He's a powerlifter... they don't care about aesthetics, just raw power. Plus he had shoulder surgery so he can't lift like he used to. He's highly respected by fellow powerlifters. You said he speaks sense, so what is your problem with him? I am confused by your post. I bought his book (should be delivered soon) because the guys teaching methods are clear and concise and he clearly understands biomechanics.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe

He competed in powerlifting from 1979 to 1988, winning the Greater Texas Classic in 1981 .

most of what he says is spot on however my point is would you listen to rip over someone like matt griff , the 2 have a clear understanding of bio-mechanics yet the difference is also clear that rip one 1 comp and griff holds many titles so which of the 2 would you listen to most ?

granted you dont need to be a world champion to teach or to be a great teacher .


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ewen said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
> 
> He competed in powerlifting from 1979 to 1988, winning the Greater Texas Classic in 1981 .
> 
> ...


I would listen to whoever is the most coherent and knows how to coach, not by how many competitions they had won - that's meaningless. It's not about listening to one respected trainer over the other, I'm sure the principles are the same so it's not a situation of either/or.

haha and again I am confused by your post, you make a point and then negate it. May I suggest your next response is "everyone's a winner, baby".


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> I use an old style Ukrainian weightlifting squat technique used by Ihor Mykhaylovych Rybak - that gives huge balance - look straight ahead and as declining turn your head to the left - at the bottom of the squat head will be as far left as it can turn - look straight - and as moving upwards turn the head right at the top the head as far right as it can turn- look straight.
> 
> Its an amazing technique and hard to get used to but it should work in one fluid movement. You will notice a great difference in the gym !! try them out - see how it works for you


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

rectus said:


> I would listen to whoever is the most coherent and knows how to coach, not by how many competitions they had won - that's meaningless. It's not about listening to one respected trainer over the other, I'm sure the principles are the same so it's not a situation of either/or.
> 
> haha and again I am confused by your post, you make a point and then negate it. May I suggest your next response is "everyone's a winner, baby".


lol i rather like that song .


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I tend to do high bar oly style squats Tommy Kono style with a neutral head position, eyes looking forward. I find better balance and a more natural fluid drive squatting this way.

One thing no one has mentioned yet though is that a neutral head position looks different depending upon the length of the torso/spine of the person doing it - a neutral spine/neck almost looks like an upward tilt of the head at the bottom of the squat for someone with a long torso/spine/neck, but for someone with shorter more compact proportions the neck almost looks tilted downwards at the bottom.


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

ewen said:


> lol i rather like that song .


great guitar riff!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

dtlv said:


> I tend to do high bar oly style squats Tommy Kono style with a neutral head position, eyes looking forward. I find better balance and a more natural fluid drive squatting this way.
> 
> One thing no one has mentioned yet though is that a neutral head position looks different depending upon the length of the torso/spine of the person doing it - a neutral spine/neck almost looks like an upward tilt of the head at the bottom of the squat for someone with a long torso/spine/neck, but for someone with shorter more compact proportions the neck almost looks tilted downwards at the bottom.


Do you watch many dwarfs squatting then lol


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## bottleneck25 (Sep 25, 2009)

i look up seems to help me with form and balance which is most important while squatting imo


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ewen said:


> Do you watch many dwarfs squatting then lol


On the faces of moustacheod men I'm guessing. Dirty boy.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

ewen said:


> Do you watch many dwarfs squatting then lol


midget sex weight training porn is all the rage nowadays, everyone who's anyone is watching it... where have you been ewen?!? :lol:


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> I use an old style Ukrainian weightlifting squat technique used by Ihor Mykhaylovych Rybak - that gives huge balance - look straight ahead and as declining turn your head to the left - at the bottom of the squat head will be as far left as it can turn - look straight - and as moving upwards turn the head right at the top the head as far right as it can turn- look straight.
> 
> Its an amazing technique and hard to get used to but it should work in one fluid movement. You will notice a great difference in the gym !! try them out - see how it works for you


anyone tried this yet ?? you will be suprised by the results !!


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