# Why bulk and then cut?



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

OK... So you bulk for 3 months for example.. You gain 5kg, 2.5kg muscle and 2.5kg fat..

Then you cut for a month.. You lose 4.5kg, 2kg and 2.5kg fat.

You're 0.5kg heavier, with 0.5kg more muscle

Why not just put the 0.5kg muscle on slowly over 4 months and not put yourself through the hell of cutting?


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Agreed. Lean bulk! Increase calories just enough to gain but not to increase bodyfat.


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## cuggster (Aug 3, 2011)

This is what i ask people, why are you getting big, then just getting rid of it all, to look average again? lean bulk is the way forward, clean diet, with the extra calories!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

agreed again, see so many fat bodybuilders it beggers belief.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

^^ Agreed, iam lean bulking now and find it much better, fitness is still there and tbh i don't see the point in getting fat. To many people use bulking as an excuse to get fat as i did but never again imo


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

I find it hard to get a balance of Lean Bulking Calories, I either don't gain, or I lose my abs in a few weeks. I can't win, now I just eat lots n lots, still gaining weigh but not that much fat, still see my abs, just got a wee belly.

Could lose it in about a few weeks if I wanted to.


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## Barman (Feb 29, 2012)

well i dont find that at all tbh i bulk up then i cut fat i still end up being bigger fuller than i was


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## Barman (Feb 29, 2012)

scott.taylor said:


> I find it hard to get a balance of Lean Bulking Calories, I either don't gain, or I lose my abs in a few weeks. I can't win, now I just eat lots n lots, still gaining weigh but not that much fat, still see my abs, just got a wee belly.
> 
> Could lose it in about a few weeks if I wanted to.


if your worried about gaining a bit of fat unless youvr amazing genteics you wont be gaining much in size


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

Barman said:


> if your worried about gaining a bit of fat unless youvr amazing genteics you wont be gaining much in size


That's why I stopped caring about having visible abs.

My Fiancée obv loves me lean, but gotta sacrifice them for more mass.

I'll cut eventually once I've got a decent bit of lean muscle worth cutting for. Lol


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

so your saying get fat then turn it magically into muscle?

TBH it all sounds like an excuse to be fat.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Agree with OP,Why can't you just gain lean muscle without gaining fat????

Oh yeah...that requires dedication and detail to diet...silly me!


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

Any of you guys have a cheat meal while lean bulking?


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

billly9 said:


> Any of you guys have a cheat meal while lean bulking?


About 5 days a week lol


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## User Name (Aug 19, 2012)

> Why bulk and then cut?


Because...........


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

There are lots of people who claim to lean bulk here. Wonder how many actually make any progress and how many cost along. Don't get me wrong, I don't get fat, but I feel like I make any progress unless in calorie surplus.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

If it was so easy to hit a bang on amount of calories that allowed you to put on muscle and only muscle then we'd all be laughing.

But it isn't, which is why most people put on fat whilst bulking. Plus not everyone is concerned about having abs visible every day of the year.

If you're adding a 50:50 ratio of muscle:fat when you're bulking you're doing it wrong anyway.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

L11 said:


> OK... So you bulk for 3 months for example.. You gain 5kg, 2.5kg muscle and 2.5kg fat..
> 
> Then you cut for a month.. You lose 4.5kg, 2kg and 2.5kg fat.
> 
> ...


I am coming round to this way of thinking myself.I used to allow myself to get fat whilst bulking,really it was just an excuse to be slack with diet.Tbf bulking that way I did put a lot of muscle on BUT it was underneath layers of fat and I looked sh1t,if my goal was pure strength then fine but it's not i want to look good!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Horses for courses...just because A works for Tom doesnt mean itll work better for Dick. Some dont mind carrying a bit of fat if it means extra size and strength.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

if you eat v clean and big, you wont put on much fat at all

it takes abit of willpower, but results speak for themseleves

currently getting lean till xmas then january is where i ramp clean cals up, cant wait

tried it before and even tho i was a fatter bf i ddint gain much fat

so my theroy is get lean as i can, then bulk then shud stay looking good yr round


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

how many "bodybuilders" do you see without abs?

hardly any! so am getting abs then starting from a blank canvas


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## Super_G (Feb 20, 2012)

I understand that guys will want to do it the lean bulk way but basically can't as they can't keep the diet strict, beer etc comes into play. Personally I'd rather be a smaller guy with slower steady gains than a guy lifting more weight with a belly like Santa


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

C.Hill said:


> About 5 days a week lol


Haha, care to elaborate?


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

billly9 said:


> Haha, care to elaborate?


if your traning enough, doing cardio and taking enough drugs

you will get away with allot! :thumb:


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Little_Jay said:


> how many "bodybuilders" do you see without abs?
> 
> hardly any! so am getting abs then starting from a blank canvas


99% of the guys you see with abs aren't bodybuilders, they're skinny [email protected]

Anyone with visible abs who would be classed as big are very few and far between.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

Dux said:


> 99% of the guys you see with abs aren't bodybuilders, they're skinny [email protected]
> 
> Anyone with visible abs who would be classed as big are very few and far between.


yer id rather have abs and look decent than be a fatty


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

You should be able to keep a bit more than 10% of muscle gained in a bulk when cutting. If you don't, you're not doing it right.

But anyway...

I prefer bulking and cutting simply because I find it an easier regime to adhere to. 3 months bulking followed by 3 months cutting means that there's a bit of variety - I'm not doing the same thing over and over again.

If I had to go on a long, slow bulk for years and years, I'd probably go mad with boredom.

The other thing is, with a bulking and cutting: as it's done over cycles, there's a little bit more room in there for cheating if you want it.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

billly9 said:


> Haha, care to elaborate?


Erm... Dominos/pizza hut, nandos, mcds, subway, whatever really lol


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

2004mark said:


> There are lots of people who claim to lean bulk here. Wonder how many actually make any progress and how many cost along. Don't get me wrong, I don't get fat, but I feel like I make any progress unless in calorie surplus.


Same here.


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Because when people bulk they dont do it cleanly and add a shed load of fat that they then want to shift. Then they cut and lose muscle in the process and it all starts again. Been here and done it the first 18months of training, regret it.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I think a lot of people, myself included find it very difficult to clean bulk as any additional calories just seem to turn to fat. Even with a clean diet I find I gain bodyfat quickley. This time around I will be trying a higher fat intake with a lower carb intake whilst maintaining a constant level of protein in the hope this will provide the results Im after. For a long time I have just been spinning my wheels and getting nowhere by constantly going from cut to bulk in and endless cycle. I will give the clean bulk a fair go and see what happens.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Little_Jay said:


> yer id rather have abs and look decent than be a fatty


Horses for courses, depends what you're training for. I'd happily (I have) sacrifice having abs to be 18st and look pretty decent than have abs at 12stone and not actually look like I train unless I lift my shirt up.

Other people are just obsessed with having abs.

Then there's the odd few that can be massive and have visible abs.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Tennis playes have good abbs but very little muscle, thats not the look Im after so abbs are not important for me (good job too). I would rather look like I workout than have a nice set of abbs.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Just take AAS and everything's possible!!!


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Dux said:


> Horses for courses, depends what you're training for. I'd happily (I have) sacrifice having abs to be 18st and look pretty decent than have abs at 12stone and not actually look like I train unless I lift my shirt up.
> 
> Other people are just obsessed with having abs.
> 
> Then there's the odd few that can be massive and have visible abs.


Couldn't imagine being 18 stone! Fcuk trying to maintain that lol


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

agrre with the op, I cut down 30lbs and went from 23% bf t 11% then I added clean carbs ad went back up 20lbs and only gained 0.8%bf.

When I was 20lbs under my starting weight on my way back up I had 6lbs more lbm than at my heaviest weight


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

mixerD1 said:


> Horses for courses...just because A works for Tom doesnt mean itll work better for Dick. Some dont mind carrying a bit of fat if it means extra size and strength.


Exactly.

Lean bulking isnt for everyone.

You may as well say that 1 routine suits all.

Horses for courses


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

C.Hill said:


> Couldn't imagine being 18 stone! Fcuk trying to maintain that lol


It's not that hard, just expensive


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

billly9 said:


> Any of you guys have a cheat meal while lean bulking?


all the time mate.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Me i like getting fat o a bulk i feel happy with abit of tummy when i bulk  Then i feel even more happy when iknow i have the knowledge and capability to shed the fat iv put on again  Its a ego thing


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

saxondale said:


> so your saying get fat then turn it magically into muscle?
> 
> TBH it all sounds like an excuse to be fat.


No. He's saying add muscle and fat then lose the fat. There's no reason to lose the muscle on a cut.

There is also no reason to add that much fat on a bulk.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> Me i like getting fat o a bulk i feel happy with abit of tummy when i bulk  Then i feel even more happy when iknow i have the knowledge and capability to shed the fat iv put on again  Its a ego thing


Just don't see the point in gaining a belly on a 'bulk' when there's no real need/excuse too?


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

C.Hill said:


> Just don't see the point in gaining a belly on a 'bulk' when there's no real need/excuse too?


tbh iv stayed very lean or much leaner then before this year & im happy with that , but idk women here do like abit of a belly to kozy with


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> tbh iv stayed very lean or much leaner then before this year & im happy with that , but idk women here do like abit of a belly to kozy with


Any excuse to slack ey


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

C.Hill said:


> Any excuse to slack ey


ANY & besides im dead serious about bodybuilding but i also want to enjoy life abit you know?  Now get your ars on my damn journal you have not visited me in along time my old friend


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

If you're losing nearly as much muscle as fat on your cut you are doing it horribly wrong.


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## Barman (Feb 29, 2012)

saxondale said:


> so your saying get fat then turn it magically into muscle?
> 
> TBH it all sounds like an excuse to be fat.


WTF are you on about :/ your bulking you have more kcals coming in than your using you will gain fat yes big ****ing whoop de do :/ ytou gain muscle as well duh...... you cut the fat simple really well it works and im still bigger than you just saying


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Barman said:


> you cut the fat simple really well it works and im still bigger than you just saying


Oooooh you bìtch!  lol


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## Barman (Feb 29, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Oooooh you bìtch!  lol


Oh i know i know love it  ahaha


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

the original idea behind bulking was, to provide a large strength increase and use the extra strength in a low rep very heavy routine to build large amounts of muscle beneath the fat, when you did that, you could slowly diet the fat off but keep nearly all the strength and muscle gains.....that was the thing years ago, it seems to have changed now.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Mingster said:


> No. He's saying add muscle and fat then lose the fat. There's no reason to lose the muscle on a cut.
> 
> There is also no reason to add that much fat on a bulk.


apparently you cannot cut without loosing muscle and see below



Barman said:


> WTF are you on about :/ your bulking you have more kcals coming in than your using you will gain fat yes big ****ing whoop de do :/ ytou gain muscle as well duh...... you cut the fat simple really well it works and im still bigger than you just saying


except when you lack the willpower to loose the fat you gained and the end result is your simply fatter than before you started (not you personally, I have no idea about your willpower)


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Erm... Dominos/pizza hut, nandos, mcds, subway, whatever really lol


since when was this a clean bulk, or were you being sarcastic :tongue:


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

saxondale said:


> apparently you cannot cut without loosing muscle and see below
> 
> except when you lack the willpower to loose the fat you gained and the end result is your simply fatter than before you started (not you personally, I have no idea about your willpower)


You can maintain on a cut if you use enough gear.

Bottom line is if you eat over maintenance your gonna put on excess fat, no matter how clean your diet is. Eating 5000 of mega clean cals would still result in putting on fat if you were over eating.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

pottsyislash09 said:


> since when was this a clean bulk, or were you being sarcastic :tongue:


You can lean bulk with a few cheat meals a week no problem


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> You can lean bulk with a few cheat meals a week no problem


I am proof of this - someone will try and argue the opposite though, no doubt.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

saxondale said:


> I am proof of this - someone will try and argue the opposite though, no doubt.


I have a very fast metabolism. I'd find it impossible to even maintain my size eating a totally clean diet.


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> You can lean bulk with a few cheat meals a week no problem


i would put on fat easily normally,

but i eat reasonalbly clean throughout the week and maybe have a pizza or someting on a sunday or maybe a few drinks,

and i am gaining well, and not gaining anymore fat really!! even added 20 mins cardio in few times a week to help me out,

so i can see for people who dont gain much fat easily could do it!! lucky ****s :tongue:

but i suppose the test helps me


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Mingster said:


> I have a very fast metabolism. I'd find it impossible to even maintain my size eating a totally clean diet.


I`ll happily have several "bad" meals a week - off to the handmade burger co tonight for example.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

saxondale said:


> I`ll happily have several "bad" meals a week - off to the handmade burger co tonight for example.


This is the issue really.

To me things like ice cream, home made burgers, egg sarnies, Sunday dinners, beans on toast etc aren't 'cheat' meals. I eat a chocky bar as my pre workout. I'm partial to pancakes with lemon and honey and ate 14 in one sitting a couple of weeks ago. I'll eat all of these in with my normal diet. For a cheat meal I'll have a takeaway, pizza, kebab, a few pasties or similar and some doughnuts

Others find a slice or two of bread unacceptable.

We are all different in that our bodies process food in different ways. Some put on pounds looking at biscuits, some don't. It's just the way it is...


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

During this year I was on a recomp and managed to loose over 4 inches off my waist whilst maintaining the same bodyweight so it is possible to maintain and even build muscle whilst loosing fat and thats from a natty. You just need to make sure your diet is correct and you train well with enough rest. With the addition of some AAS who knows what would be possible ?


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

aad123 said:


> During this year I was on a recomp and managed to loose over 4 inches off my waist whilst maintaining the same bodyweight so it is possible to maintain and even build muscle whilst loosing fat and thats from a natty. You just need to make sure your diet is correct and you train well with enough rest. With the addition of some AAS who knows what would be possible ?


You'd get canny lean massive! give it a go!


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

saxondale said:


> I am proof of this - someone will try and argue the opposite though, no doubt.


no offence dude, but if thats you in the avatar, then it looks like you are carrying abit of fat around your mid section, and dont appear to have the bulk above.

perhaps you need to change how you are eating, coz i cant see the proof.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

portion size, not eating 6 slices of bread with every meal and no snacking.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

alan1971 said:


> no offence dude, but if thats you in the avatar, then it looks like you are carrying abit of fat around your mid section, and dont appear to have the bulk above.
> 
> perhaps you need to change how you are eating, coz i cant see the proof.


non taken, pictures now two weeks old. I`m looking at the bigger picture (pun intended) we`re just starting to bulk back up. Look again by the end of Jan to see if I`ve managed it.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

saxondale said:


> non taken, pictures now two weeks old. I`m looking at the bigger picture (pun intended) we`re just starting to bulk back up. Look again by the end of Jan to see if I`ve managed it.


I see a January challange coming on....


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

alan1971 said:


> no offence dude, but if thats you in the avatar, then it looks like you are carrying abit of fat around your mid section, and dont appear to have the bulk above.
> 
> perhaps you need to change how you are eating, coz i cant see the proof.


if he is classed as fat, what kind of world are we living in :confused1:


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

saxondale said:


> non taken, pictures now two weeks old. I`m looking at the bigger picture (pun intended) we`re just starting to bulk back up. Look again by the end of Jan to see if I`ve managed it.


you natty, or doing the gear?

personally at 41 i dont think i'll ever have a six pack, so not aiming to, but aslong as i can keep my bodyfat down, and when in a vest i have a good set of shoulders and a pair of big arms, i'd be more then happy.

i think its true what someone said above about you usually only see the skinny guys with the six packs though.


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

pottsyislash09 said:


> if he is classed as fat, what kind of world are we living in :confused1:


i said he's carrying abit of fat around the mid section, which he is...FACT. he's no porker though.


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## Markyboy81 (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree with a lot of the posters here, it can be incredibly difficult to get your diet just right so that you're only gaining muscle. Most people if they aren't gaining fat probably aren't consuming enough to gain muscle either. Whereas if you are gaining a little fat you at least know that if your training is right you should be gaining muscle.

I don't really understand the whole 'eat clean' thing, it's really a matter of calories in vs calories out as long as you're taking on enough protein.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

It will be nice to get some experience input on this ?


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## Markyboy81 (Jan 27, 2012)

alan1971 said:


> i said he's carrying abit of fat around the mid section, which he is...FACT. he's no porker though.


I think that's a bit of an exaggeration looks like he's got a bit of definition there (no ****)


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Markyboy81 said:


> I don't really understand the whole 'eat clean' thing, it's really a matter of calories in vs calories out as long as you're taking on enough protein.


So high vs low gi carbs make no difference? Saturated vs non saturated fat? (all calories equal of course)

This isn't a rhetorical question I genuinely don't know..


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

I did a huge ass dirty bulk for a year, gained a lot of size but a lot of fat too.

Do I regret it? Hmmm no but now I stay leaner on the offseason so I can see progress easier.

Cutting as a start means you have fck all to cut and see. I would always advocate bulking first so you have something underneath to see rather than ribs.

This is all based on goals though. Some want to cut right away but if size is the overall goal, is advise against


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I follow a 6 week bulk/6 week cut protocol. I eat a little over maintenance on the bulks and a little under on the cuts. I probably add 6/7 lbs on the bulks and lose 5/6 lbs on the cuts for an average net gain of 1lb of muscle over a cycle. Although I don't train for muscle growth as such, and have no interest in 6 packs etc, I have found that, after doing this for 6 months plus, I have developed visible abs throughout this process.

It's also much more fun than long bulks/cuts, for which I see no purpose unless dieting for a show tbh...


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

Markyboy81 said:


> I think that's a bit of an exaggeration looks like he's got a bit of definition there (no ****)


i agree there is abit of difinition, but there is abit of fat, its not alot, but you can see it.


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## Markyboy81 (Jan 27, 2012)

I'd like to know this as well. All I can say is that I've been using myfitness pal over the last year and didn't worry about the type of food I was eating, I just adjusted calories. I upped my calories in the first 6 months and managed to make some muscular gains and did add a bit of fat too. Over the past 6 months I've reduced my calories and shed a lot of the fat without losing muscle.

I'm sure that paying attention to glyceimic index does make a difference, but as soon as you start combining foods, all that goes out the window anyway.

I guess i could have got better results if I paid more attention to the macros but to be honest I can't be bothered and love carbs too much! I've made good progress as it is so see no real reason to change.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Markyboy81 said:


> Over the past 6 months I've reduced my calories and shed a lot of the fat without losing muscle.
> 
> .


THing is, how exactly do you know that you've not lost muscle?


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## Markyboy81 (Jan 27, 2012)

I suppose I don't know that for sure, but my lifts have increased and I don't appear to have lost any size


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## bayliss (Aug 12, 2010)

scott.taylor said:


> I find it hard to get a balance of Lean Bulking Calories, I either don't gain, or I lose my abs in a few weeks. I can't win, now I just eat lots n lots, still gaining weigh but not that much fat, still see my abs, just got a wee belly.
> 
> Could lose it in about a few weeks if I wanted to.


same here.gain muscle and no fat seems impossible.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

alan1971 said:


> i agree there is abit of difinition, but there is abit of fat, its not alot, but you can see it.


Six months ago I was fat so have to say I agree with this, there is room for improvement, we`ve lost more this last week BUT not reached my Xmas goal yet but thanks to everyone for the compliment

Pictures on Xmas eve, how about that?

natty BTW


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

L11 said:


> THing is, how exactly do you know that you've not lost muscle?


quick look at the back pictures in my journal, lost fat, muscle bigger (plus I measure them?)


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## loganator (Mar 19, 2011)

L11 said:


> OK... So you bulk for 3 months for example.. You gain 5kg, 2.5kg muscle and 2.5kg fat..
> 
> Then you cut for a month.. You lose 4.5kg, 2kg and 2.5kg fat.
> 
> ...


last time i bulked then cut i gained 5 lbs of muscle whilst loosing 2 and a half stone of fat ......personally i dont think you have the same energy for training if your on low carbs all the time , i like to enjoy tearing up the gym in the offseason then enduring the suffering pre contest ....

at the end of the day you missing one thing , we are all individual and respond differently to carbs, fats and protien so basically there isn't one rule that works for everyone weather bulking or cutting ...we are all different and what works for me may not work for you or others and vice versa


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

In on this


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

ash1981 said:


> In on this


lol abit late mate


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ha yea I just wanna read it later when Im back


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Because a lot of people get carried away with their eating when they're trying to gain muscle and before you know it you're giving yourself all sorts of crap reasons why it's fine to eat those doughnuts! And then a few months later you're so fat you have to go on a crash diet. :lol: Ah the fun of bodybuilding. 

Seriously, who can eat cleanly day in day out without crumbling. Not many people, especially when you don't feel like you are on a restricted diet.... oh it won't hurt... not this once.... twice... sh*t 100th junk food this week....


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

I always wondered this from day one

Now I can see it's cause it's a lot easier, depends how much dedication you want to put in, some would say eating nothing but clean is too dedicated for the average joe, others would say excessive bulking then strict dieting is too dedicated.. at the end of the day it's each to their own


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

defdaz said:


> Because a lot of people get carried away with their eating when they're trying to gain muscle and before you know it you're giving yourself all sorts of crap reasons why it's fine to eat those doughnuts! And then a few months later you're so fat you have to go on a crash diet. :lol: Ah the fun of bodybuilding.
> 
> Seriously, who can eat cleanly day in day out without crumbling. Not many people, especially when you don't feel like you are on a restricted diet.... oh it won't hurt... not this once.... twice... sh*t 100th junk food this week....


LOL i agree but to be honest the amount off clean food that i go through to make up 500g protein 250g carbs and 150g fats day leaves not alot off room for junk


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Mostly made up off Mince, Chicken, Cheese and yes 250g coming from shakes protein wise i'm aiming for 50/50 solid shakes and lots off fish oil


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

500g protein is incredible mate! Respect is due!! I doubt I get anywhere near 300g most days.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

500g of protein seems a lot, are you sure your body requires that much ? I find that meats and fish tend to cost quite a lot so if 500g is not required would it be cheeper to purchase less meat and save a few £s. This is not a criticism just a question. I know people on aas require more protein but how much is required for both natural and assisted trainers ?


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

aad123 said:


> 500g of protein seems a lot, are you sure your body requires that much ? I find that meats and fish tend to cost quite a lot so if 500g is not required would it be cheeper to purchase less meat and save a few £s. This is not a criticism just a question. I know people on aas require more protein but how much is required for both natural and assisted trainers ?


to be honest can't tell u 100% this game has way to many different ways of doings things


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