# Proposed Insulin Cycle



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi all,

After much research and thought, I've decided to give Insulin a shot. I've been using gear for a fair bit but I want to add on more quality lean muscle to my frame. I was considering doing 4 weeks on and off. The following is the protocol I was considering.

Week 1 - 4IU PWO with 40g Dextrose & 60g Whey followed by a high protein low carbohydrate meal an hour later

Week 2 - 6IU PWO with 60g Dextrose & 60g Whey followed by a high protein low carbohydrate meal an hour later

Week 3 - 8IU PWO with 80g Dextrose & 60g Whey followed by a high protein low carbohydrate meal an hour later

Week 4 - 10IU PWO with 100g Dextrose & 60g Whey followed by a high protein low carbohydrate meal an hour later

Weeks 5,6,7,8 - OFF... And then rinse and repeat

Could some of the more experienced lot please critique my protocol.

I also have a few questions...

*1.* At the moment I am sub 10% body fat. I love my condition but it's more lean muscle I'm after. Is it possible to use insulin with *minimal/zero* gains in body fat?

*2.* Is it OK that the meal 1 hour after the insulin shot is very low in carbohydrates? I train in the evenings and my meal before bed tends to be 400g of chicken with 300g of salad.

*3.* Can decent gains be made from using low doses of insulin and only using it PWO?

*4.* Is the 4 weeks on and off protocol a good option?

*5.* Would using Metformin alongside insulin a good idea?

Cheers lads.


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## WallsOfJericho (Apr 4, 2009)

I know Ive said it loads of times, but I hate dextrose as a carb source, as a diabetic it has never helped when Ive gone hypo, id have lucozade post workout, how late do you train? eat and then sleep? because if its late i wouldn't take an insulin shot that close to sleep time either with such a low carb dinner.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I tend to finish gym by 10pm the latest and normally hit the sack somewhere around 2am.

Dextrose is fast acting carbs so that's why I imagine so many people tend to use it with slin. Everyone I know who has gone hypo have always used Lucozade to regulate themselves back to normal though.

Can any of you experienced lot give me feedback on my protocol and answer my questions please :whistling:


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

May I also ask, is there any advantage of using Vitargo as opposed to Dextrose as a PWO Insulin shake?

I've been doing more reading on other boards and the general consensus seems to be that using Insulin will inevitably lead to fat gain as well. I feel the people on this

board are much more knowledgeable however so any feedback from the more experienced slin users would be appreciated only

My plan was to consume minimal carbs through the day and get the bulk in the morning where I have 100g of Oats and then the rest in my PWO shake.

I also forgot to mention that I'm using...


1.2g Test

600mg Tren

900mg EQ

125mcg T3 (2 days on, 2 days off)


Was going to drop the Tren next week and replace it for Mast as I've been on Tren for far too long lol.

Was also going to throw in Clen during the 2 T3 off days.

If using a lower amount of slin PWO will eliminate putting on fat, I'll be happy to do so. I just need to know whether this is possible

or am I just whacking my head against the wall trying to achieve something that just isn't possible lol.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> Hi all,
> 
> After much research and thought, I've decided to give Insulin a shot. I've been using gear for a fair bit but I want to add on more quality lean muscle to my frame. I was considering doing 4 weeks on and off. The following is the protocol I was considering.
> 
> ...


no point in starting at less than 1iu/10kg of body mass- just reducing 'slin sensitivity for nothing. You also need to use a BG monitor. You may not need to use 10g carbs/iu 'slin, especially inthe 2nd meal an hour post 1st shake, but you won't know unless you measure BG.. cant stress this enough.

Paul borresson on DNP and 'slin:

http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/30/2/152.full



WallsOfJericho said:


> I know Ive said it loads of times, but I hate dextrose as a carb source, as a diabetic it has never helped when Ive gone hypo, id have lucozade post workout, how late do you train? eat and then sleep? because if its late i wouldn't take an insulin shot that close to sleep time either with such a low carb dinner.


I'm with you on dextrose. I say glucose as well and you can get it from bulkpowders/myprotein etc. I would even say possibly vitargo, but I don't think ts worth the money over lucozade or glucose powder.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheers for your input Ausbuilt, very much appreciated mate.

Could you tell me why using slin 3x per day is more beneficial? I was under the assumption that the purpose of using slin is to shuttle max nutrients into the muscles, so hence PWO is the best time.

Another reason I was considering PWO only is because I'm new to slin so thought I'd start off lightly.

How do this look to you Aus...

Weeks 1 - 4 - 8IU PWO with 80g Vitargo & 60g Whey, followed by a shake consisting of 100g of Oats with 300ml of milk an hour later, followed by a high protein, low carb solid meal about 30-45 minutes later.

I workout 6x per week excluding Fridays but I may as well do slin everyday PWO with me using it in the morning on the Friday. In addition to this I can throw in DNP like you mentioned at 200mg - 400mg per day for one month.

Would the gains differ substantially from using slin 1x per day everyday PWO as opposed to used it EOD 3x per week?

Cheers mate


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> Cheers for your input Ausbuilt, very much appreciated mate.
> 
> Could you tell me why using slin 3x per day is more beneficial? I was under the assumption that the purpose of using slin is to shuttle max nutrients into the muscles, so hence PWO is the best time.
> 
> ...


your carb intake is better in this post.

You may be able to take less, or better still, add DNP on your carb days at 200mg.

Look 'slin works by some cool biological processes, but also by the simple fact that you force down protein and carbs with the shakes- so you get more growth with the 3x daily approach, and a CRAZY pump..

but if you want to do PWO only then by all means, try that for a month, but at least start on 8iu...


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> your carb intake is better in this post.
> 
> You may be able to take less, or better still, add DNP on your carb days at 200mg.
> 
> ...


Lmao, cheers for the info mate. Using the 3x daily approach, would it be best done morning, pre and post workout?

And lastly... as I now train in the evenings, is it alright that my last insulin shot is 4 hours before bedtime?

*P.S*

I always thought you were an advocator of low carb diets Aus. When using slin, what's your daily carb intake if you don't mind me asking.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok, I think I have this all nailed now. This is what I shall be doing for 4 weeks...

*Insulin Protocol*



10IU PWO with 100g Vitargo & 60g Whey, followed by a shake consisting of 100g of Oats with 300ml of milk an hour later, followed by a high protein, low carb solid meal about 30-45 minutes later

500mg DNP

100mcg T3

200mcg Clen (2 days on, 2 days off)


*Gear*


1.2g Test

900mg Equipoise

600mg Masteron


*Diet*


Besides having carbs around the time I use insulin, the only other time I shall have carbs is in the morning when I have 100g of oats with 300ml of milk.

The rest of my meals will be sheer protein consisting of chicken, salmon, extra lean beef/steak with vegetables or salad.


My daily carb intake will be roughly in the region of 270g - 300g if I follow this protocol.

*Feel free to critique guys.*

@ausbuilt - I decided to go with insulin PWO only mate as it's my first time and I want to make sure I'm super responsible when it comes to it's use.


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

I never had a problem using Dextrose but did using malto. Stick to either dextrose or glucose.

I wouldn't bother using clen and stick to just T3 and the DNP if you are worried about fat gain. Gaining a litttle fat for the benefit of gaining more size is never bad IMO. As long as fat gain doesnt get ridiculous you know you can easily drop it with some cardio and lower cal diet in a few weeks.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

liam0810 said:


> I never had a problem using Dextrose but did using malto. Stick to either dextrose or glucose.
> 
> I wouldn't bother using clen and stick to just T3 and the DNP if you are worried about fat gain. Gaining a litttle fat for the benefit of gaining more size is never bad IMO. As long as fat gain doesnt get ridiculous you know you can easily drop it with some cardio and lower cal diet in a few weeks.


Cheers for your input mate.

Is Vitargo a fast enough carb source to use after using insulin and also, how big exactly is the PWO window? Is it literally 5-10 minutes or can slin be jabbed 30 minutes PWO?


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Contest said:


> Cheers for your input mate.
> 
> Is Vitargo a fast enough carb source to use after using insulin and also, how big exactly is the PWO window? Is it literally 5-10 minutes or can slin be jabbed 30 minutes PWO?


the sooner the better for me really mate. never used vitargo but a few mates have and think its good.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

liam0810 said:


> the sooner the better for me really mate. never used vitargo but a few mates have and think its good.


That's alright then. I've got the extra cash so don't mind investing in Vitargo lol.

Would you say 30 minutes PWO is far too long then? Looks like I'll have to jab in my car or something lol.


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Contest said:


> That's alright then. I've got the extra cash so don't mind investing in Vitargo lol.
> 
> Would you say 30 minutes PWO is far too long then? Looks like I'll have to jab in my car or something lol.


Either put it in your locker at the gym mate or in your car, just make sure you have your shake ready


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

liam0810 said:


> Either put it in your locker at the gym mate or in your car, just make sure you have your shake ready


Will do mate. Cheers for your help.


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