# No DOMS? Not working hard enough?



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

As title really, I have been going to the gym for about a month now and noticing some small gains and genuinly loving working out, but when I started I was getting some intense doms a day or two after working out, I have now increased the weights I am lifting but no longer getting doms, so am I not working out as hard as I was before? I feel like I am training just as hard, the only difference is I started taking protein shakes, but I wouldnt have thought that would have changed much?

Cheers, Ross.


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Eventually DOMS will get less and less painful/noticeable

You should definitely feel something though

What's your training like?


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

no, soreness is not an indication of muscle growth. just carry on with your doing train to failure lift heavy good form etc if you stop growing, eat more. simples


----------



## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

DOMS has no indication to muscle growth whatsoever. If your training to failure, you are training hard enough....


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

Ok cheers, Just some people have said to me if you're not aching after then your not training hard enough, I always push to failure, and do 2 sets with around 20 reps per set.


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Do 4 x 8-10 reps of 80-90% of your 1rep max for 4/5/6 exercises

If your muscles aren't sore then I envy you


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Are you training the same body part more than once a week? One of the main adaptations that occurs with frequent training is reduced DOMS as the body develops a more efficient immune response to the inflammation.

Even if not training that frequently though DOMS should get easier. I get it very badly in the first 2-3 sessions after a layoff, and more than normal when I first introduce new exercises, but under normal circumstances don't get it as such, just a 'heavy feeling' in the muscle (no soreness like when first starting a routine) lasting around 18-24 hours.


----------



## Gman81 (Nov 11, 2012)

As WilsonR6 said, reduce the reps and increase the weight/sets, that'll get you aching!


----------



## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

For me I've changed my split to a 4 day upper/lower/day off/upper/lower routine and previously where doing a 3 day, chest/tricep, back/shoulder/bi's, legs,I would have massive doms, doing a 4 day split I can't really say I've had anything too noticeable since working the muscles the same frequency, but split over an extra day and less intensely all at one time.

For example whereas I still do tricep work twice a week, instead of hammering dips, tricep pull downs, and skullcrusher/cgb all in one session, I'll do Monday pull downs, and thursday dips and skullcrusher/cgbp. Find hitting it all on one day far too much, lactic acid builds up, and repair takes longer. Strength and size has increased on this new routine


----------



## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

I try and ensure I don't get DOMS personally. Just means you need more time to recover after and it will more than likely take intensity out of your next workout if you train through them.


----------



## stoatman (Sep 13, 2012)

20 reps mate ? , as suggested get that down to 6-8 for a heavier weight . Should find better muscle gains that way


----------



## AuburnMuscle (May 27, 2011)

You will notice you will get muscle soreness more extreme on certain body parts rather than others, don't worry about it. Use the principle of progressive overload to build muscle i suggest you do a little research on it to further enlighten you as they are many good articles explaining it.


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

WilsonR6 said:


> Do 4 x 8-10 reps of 80-90% of your 1rep max for 4/5/6 exercises
> 
> If your muscles aren't sore then I envy you


8 to 10 reps 80/90% of 1 rep max for 4 sets?? dats pretty much impossible.


----------



## Lockon (Nov 21, 2011)

pretty accurate imo


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

Ok, cheers for summing that up for me guys, but now on another note from what some of you said, I am thinking that maybe the workout I have been put on isnt going to be the best for building my muscles, I am at the gym tonight and will copy my plan out and see what you guys think.

Cheers, Ross.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

rossrox said:


> Ok, cheers for summing that up for me guys, but now on another note from what some of you said, I am thinking that maybe the workout I have been put on isnt going to be the best for building my muscles, I am at the gym tonight and will copy my plan out and see what you guys think.
> 
> Cheers, Ross.


i`ll bet its sh1t .

who put you on it ?


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

The instuctors at my gym, thats what I am thinking, when I show you guys you will just laugh at it haha.


----------



## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Yeah more than likely will be opposite of what we'd have you do here!

I'm in college right now studying to be a PT, and I've had so many arguments and disagreements with the teachers!

The problem is, a gym instructor will have plans for an all around fitness approach, whereas if you had a personal trainer or even explained to your gym instructor that you couldn't care less about functional everyday fitness and you just wanna get massive then the playing field changes.

Did you outline your goals with him before he gave you the plan?

Aswell, the doms isn't a true sign of growth but it is one side effect you'll feel. Switch up exercises as well as weights reps, eg, don't concentrate on bench press all the time, throw in incline dumbbells as your first main chest exercise now and then etc


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

rossrox said:


> The instuctors at my gym, thats what I am thinking, when I show you guys you will just laugh at it haha.


im laughing already


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

golfgttdi said:


> Yeah more than likely will be opposite of what we'd have you do here!
> 
> I'm in college right now studying to be a PT, and I've had so many arguments and disagreements with the teachers!
> 
> ...


why ?


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah my words to them was get rid of my fat and build up muscle, going to the gym now so will copy out my plan and show you guys.


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

Right heres my plan...

Day one (Mondays)

Dual link incline press 2 sets, 15-20 reps per set @ 50kg

Pec Deck 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 35kg

Hammer Press 2 sets @ 15-20 @ 7.5Kg Each side

Assisted dips 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 75k

Tricep extension 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 25kg

TRX Chest press 2 sets @ 15-20

Flexi balls ab crunch 2 sets @ as many as possible

Day two (Wednesdays)

TRX row 2 sets @ 15-20 reps

Wide grip lat pulldown 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 40kg

Dual link row 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 40kg

Bent over BB row 2 sets @ 15-20 @ 30kg

BB bicep curl 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 30kg

Bicep curl machine 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 20kg

TRX legraise 2 sets @ as many as possible

Day three (Friday)

Hammer shoulder 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 10kg Each side

Cable front raise 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 30kg

Cable upright row 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 30kg

45 degree leg press 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 60kg

Thigh extension 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 55kg

Seated leg curl 2 sets @ 15-20 @ 55kg

calf raise machine 2 sets @ 15-20 reps @ 60kg

I always warm up with 5 - 10 mins on either running machine or cross trainer

So thats my plan, now you can have a laugh haha

Cheers, Ross.


----------



## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

ewen said:


> why ?


Really? Your asking me why you shouldnt switch up your exercise layout now and then?

The body adapts very quickly, I know his trainer may have spouted a load of crap at him, but its pretty basic to keep your body challenged, and yeah upping the weight will do this, but switching exercises around will too!

you have 19000 posts?


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

I would still do bench,deadlifts and squats every week anyway.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

golfgttdi said:


> Really? Your asking me why you shouldnt switch up your exercise layout now and then?
> 
> The body adapts very quickly, I know his trainer may have spouted a load of crap at him, but its pretty basic to keep your body challenged, and yeah upping the weight will do this, but switching exercises around will too!
> 
> you have 19000 posts?


if an exercise like for example squat works why change it ? the only changes needed are weight/reps/sets .

@dtlv74 has posted a study on this before that shows an exercise is still just as effective many years after taking it up and only the reps sets weight needs to be changed .

my routine has not changed in months and im forcing my body to grow bigger and stronger by doing so , to get stronger on ohp i need to ohp same with deadlift squat or any exercise you only get stronger and better by doing it , look at olympic lifters they do the same exercises for hours weekly monthly yearly over and over again .

@Mingster also hasnt changed his routine to any great extent other than when picking up injurys (as is normal with lifting heavy sh1t)

repetition consistency is key .

19.941 posts thats pretty close to my bodyweight in stone and lbs lol not bad considering i was not much over 11 stone when i first signed up here .


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Rarely change my exercises tbh. An occasional change in set or rep volume, or more or less rest between sets is enough to keep the body guessing.

You have to stick with an exercise to get strong at it. You have to bench to get a big bench, squat to get a big squat etc imo...


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

I have posted my workout twice now :S But apparently I need a moderator to approve it before its posted? :S


----------



## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm using ghrp-6 and don't really feel and soreness after working out now, I'm 100% training properly and have just started a new routine. Putting it down to the ghrp increasing recovery, plus i'm active at work all day laying brick/block


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ewen said:


> if an exercise like for example squat works why change it ? the only changes needed are weight/reps/sets .
> 
> @dtlv74 has posted a study on this before that shows an exercise is still just as effective many years after taking it up and only the reps sets weight needs to be changed .
> 
> ...


Indeed. The whole "confuse the muscles" mentality comes from the magazines who have to fill their pages with new content e.g. some swiss ball kettle bell TRX workout. If magazines were honest, there would be 5 pages for the major movements and it'd be the same every month 

So, let's go with the bench press: You have hit a plateau so there are some things you can change to break you past that -


Rep tempo

Rep range

Time between sets

Negatives


If you decide to do another movement instead for your chest, you're just going to become weaker than you were before on the bench press. The adaptation will come from the things listed above.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I do BP, SQ, DL and OHP only every week without fail.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> I do BP, SQ, DL and OHP only every week without fail.


No rowing movements?


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

rectus said:


> Indeed. The whole "confuse the muscles" mentality comes from the magazines who have to fill their pages with new content e.g. some swiss ball kettle bell TRX workout. If magazines were honest, there would be 5 pages for the major movements and it'd be the same every month
> 
> So, let's go with the bench press: You have hit a plateau so there are some things you can change to break you past that -
> 
> ...


And assistance exercises but these are assistance not substitutes .


----------



## rossrox (Sep 3, 2012)

Plan is now up on page two, if anyone cares to have a lookey


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

rossrox said:


> Right heres my plan...
> 
> Day one (Mondays)
> 
> ...


for a newbie as an intro then yes i can see the reasoning but only for first 4-6 weeks BUT the compounds should be learnt from day one .

go poke the dudes eyes out


----------



## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

And if youve been on the block so long then you know damn well if you show me a study saying option A worked i can show you a study saying option B worked. Most of these 'studies' dont cant be used for 100% of people because the variables are way to hard to line up. You went from 11 stone to 19 stone, thats incredible work, regardless of weather its natty or not thats a massive achievement and one that wud have me think your probably genetically inclined to grow with hard training and food maybe a little more than the average guy? . Thing is, everyones different, A sure fire way to burst past a plateux is to change it up and come back stronger! Im pretty sure you already know that and were just being a smart ass.



ewen said:


> if an exercise like for example squat works why change it ? the only changes needed are weight/reps/sets .
> 
> @dtlv74 has posted a study on this before that shows an exercise is still just as effective many years after taking it up and only the reps sets weight needs to be changed .
> 
> ...


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

golfgttdi said:


> And if youve been on the block so long then you know damn well if you show me a study saying option A worked i can show you a study saying option B worked. Most of these 'studies' dont cant be used for 100% of people because the variables are way to hard to line up. You went from 11 stone to 19 stone, thats incredible work, regardless of weather its natty or not thats a massive achievement and one that wud have me think your probably genetically inclined to grow with hard training and food maybe a little more than the average guy? . Thing is, everyones different, A sure fire way to burst past a plateux is to change it up and come back stronger! Im pretty sure you already know that and were just being a smart ass.


why thank you and i appreciate what your saying and you are right i just have certain goals for example i want a big over head press so changing it is not an option but changing assistance exercises is however in bodybuilding things could be different im not sure as all i do is train for my goals .


----------



## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Can sometimes get akward in fitness/lifting/bbing cirles with whos 'right' or 'wrong' cause theres never a one for all plan that will be right for all goals etc.

Oh well he said do this and he's huge but he said do that and he's strong as an ox,

Guess its trial and error till you find how your own body responds best.

Youve obviously found the best way to grow yours! But your probably on the celltech so thats cheating. 



ewen said:


> why thank you and i appreciate what your saying and you are right i just have certain goals for example i want a big over head press so changing it is not an option but changing assistance exercises is however in bodybuilding things could be different im not sure as all i do is train for my goals .


----------

