# How to keep your gains... This is a MUST READ!



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

How to KEEP GAINS from steroids

This info I have gleaned from self-research, trail and error, from my endocrinologist, from SWALE and from training hundreds of clients over the years.

This is a longish post but many of you will greatly benefit from reading it so try to bare with my "blathering"

First of all I would like to stress that I and my endocrinologist do not believe one can keep gains above ones natural max, or that level of muscular development that can be held to without steroids. In other words, I think one will always shrink down to the size that can be held to with ones own T production.

In reality what usually happens is that many (not all) steroid users fall BELOW their natural max within months of discontinuing steroids for one or all of the following reasons poor HPTA recovery and or lack of knowledge in regard to what makes up proper steroid free training.

If HPTA recovery is not fairly rapid and complete then obviously one risks dropping BELOW ones natural max in time. If one does not know how to train effectively without steroids then one will rapidly over train and drop below natural max in time, not to mention the strong possibility of injury which also will hinder gains keeping.

You can, however, makes gains well above your natural max while on steroids and then with prudent use of ancillaries, and proper natural training, hold to your natural max well into ones 50's and perhaps early 60's.

As an estimate of natural max the average guy of average height( 5"9 or 10") and with average bone structure and genetically typical recuperative abilities (vast majority of men) can usually get to a lean 190-195 with a bench of 275-300, full squat of 375-400 and a dead lift of about 500 pounds without steroids.

ANCILLARIES....HCG

Dare I say that HCG use is more important than SERMS(nolva or clomid) for good HPTA recovery after a LONG cycle( 12 weeks or longer)

Personally I would use HCG during any cycle 8 weeks or longer...and if you are really paranoid and want the absolute most rapid HPTA recovery then use it during any cycle for next to zero testicular shrinkage.

Now you will recover HPTA without HGC, and fairly quickly if you truly have not suffered from much testicular atrophy, but not as rapidly as you could and that will cost you at least some gains.

HCG, human chorionic gonadotropin, is a hormone taken from placentas during pregnancy. It mimics the action of LH from the pituitary and stimulates testosterone production in the testes.

It is important to the male bodybuilder in that proper use of this hormone PREVENTS testicular atrophy caused by HPTA shut down from steroid use.

If the testes are shut down they will shrink, it's as simple as that. The degree of shrinkage depends upon the length of time "on" androgens. Some guys literally see their testes atrophy down to raisin size. NO ****. Others see modest shrinkage and a few say they see NO shrinkage. In the latter this is BS and has to due with poor pre-cycle assessment of testicular size. After all how many of us sit down before a cycle and really feel the true size of our balls.

NOTE: all steroids will shut you down 100% and at a very low dose, and that includes Primo and Anavar for you skeptics. As little as 100mg a week of testosterone administered exogenously in the form of injections will shut you down in as little as a few weeks.

HPTA RECOVERY

The hormones that drive the HPT axis (LH and GnRH) recover full potential quite quickly post cycle. The hypothalamus rapidly senses a low androgen level and pumps out GnRH and this tells the pituitary to release LH for testicular stimulation of T production trouble is if the nuts are small they simply cannot respond well to this stimulation. The testes take a fair amount of time to "get going" after a long sleep and as a result T levels post cycle can be low for months (if greatly atrophied). This obviously results in a rapid loss of gains, not to mention psychological issues such as depression as well as physical issues like fatigue.

* SO it is important for "optimal" gains keeping to try to begin HPTA recovery with full or nearly full sized testes.

HOW TO USE HCG

It is best to prevent testicular atrophy in the first place rather than trying to bringing the boys back to size after they have already atrophied.

With this in mind prudent use of HCG is DURING a cycle.

HCG can be taken either IM or sub Q in the fat and yes you can mix it with your oils.

Take it at 500 IU's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.

Some use it post cycle at higher doses after their testes have already shrunk. This method works but I do not believe that it is the best way to use HCG. In this method one injects a high dose of HCG right near the end of a cycle but before clomid. The opening dose is often 3000iu's followed sometimes by another 3000 4 days later and then 1500iu's every 4th or 5th day and then the last shot is usually only 1000iu's total time three weeks.

No use taking clomid or nolvadex with the HCG since HCG will suppress the HPTA all by itself via the testosterone production it stimulates.

WARNING...if you use HCG at a high dose for too long you might desensitize the testes to LH so don't get carried away with it.

SERMS clomid and nolva

After any cycle a SERM should be used, either clomid or nolvadex.

SERMS help to "kick start" a sleepy hypothalamic GnRH response.

GnRH is pretty quick to recover but SERMS help the hypothalamus to "turn the key" on the GnRH impulse generating engine.

SERMS block the affect of estrogen at the hypothalamus and since estrogen is highly inhibitory this blocking affect allows for greater LH production. This "greater LH production" strongly stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.

If you use only gear that does NOT aromatize to estrogen then you don't have to worry about the inhibitory affect of estrogen post cycle (from the steroid)...but SERMs should still be used to counter the inhibitory affect of the estrogen seen form the T production (from the HCG use).....and also from the estrogen production from the aromatization of the T production form your testes after the HCG is stopped.

*Even if you never used HCG you should still use a SERM after a cycle with non aromatizing gear to counter the inhibitory effect of normal estrogen production (from the aromatization of T from your improving T production)

You have to wait until exogenous androgen levels drop to a similar level of what a normal T production would be, in order for this LH stimulating affect from SERMS to work, since androgens are also highly inhibitory on the hypothalamus.

So you must have to have a good grasp on the half-life of the various gear you use. You also have to be aware of the how the dose taken factors into the equation. i.e.: test cypionate has a half life of around 6 days so with this in mind 500mg of test cypionate will reduce to 250 mg in a week and about 125 in another week. That 125mg is about 100mg of pure testosterone (minus ester weight) and you can now begin SERM therapy because that level is near what a normal T output would be (slightly higher though)

NOTE: There is no penalty for starting a SERM too early but there is one for starting too late.

Search for half-life's of other gear in other threads on the boards.

On opening "SERM day", post cycle, you want to do a "loading dose" of about 200-300mg of clomid in divided doses in order to get blood levels up pronto. Then take 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for 3 more weeks MINIMUM... and longer after Deca use.

Alternatively you can use nolva at 80mg on day one in divided dose and then 40mg /day for a week and then 20mg/day for at least 3 more weeks.

PROPER STEROID FREE TRAINING POST CYCLE...for the genetically typical (most men)...not easy gainers.

Thanks to all the glossy magazines out there very few bro's really know how to train for gains without steroids. Dare I say that not a few of you turned to gear simply because you could not make very good gains as a natural.

Thanks JOE WEIDER, and others, for NOT telling the whole story in the glossy mags. THE ROUTINES IN THE MAGS WILL NOT WORK FOR 90% OF ALL MEN UNLESS THEY ARE, #1 ON GEAR AND #2, AT LEAST SOMEWHAT GENETICALLY GIFTED. Guys these pros are so out of touch with what works for the typical man training naturally that it isn't funny.

These guys are genetic freaks on a ton of gear...like 2-4 grams of test a week, other steroids, GH and insulin! Not only that but they don't have jobs outside the gym to drain them either!

Steroids not only help muscle building but more importantly they GREATLY improve recuperative powers.

Most guys continue to train in a very similar fashion while off gear as they did while on gear, especially in regard the number of days in the gym each week, and this is a HUGE ERROR.

Many guys simply over train after they stop the gear and loose huge amounts of muscle and many actually end up below their natural max potential in time. Others do not even bother training at all without juice!

I went to a Dorian Yates seminar a few years ago and he mentioned all this. Dorian's recommendations in regards to training without gear where almost identical to mine. Dorian said that most trainees should train no more frequently than three days a week on a three way split while "off" steroids and that all should use a low volume of sets and work primarily on the big basic compound movements with very hard work. FINIALLY A PRO THAT KNOWS AND TELLS THE TRUTH!

Most men simply cannot recuperate from frequent trips to the gym and even moderately high volume without the assistance of steroids. Most men are genetically typical in the recuperation department.... and that's at least 90% of you bro's.

I have good genetics for bodybuilding and I could train in almost any manner while on gear and gain well but even while on gear I choose to train infrequently, every other day on a three way split while "on" and Mon-Wed and FRI on a three way split while "off", and with low volume and very hard work...WHY?

For three reasons #1. I have other things to do in my busy life and #2. I make even better gains and get even bigger with this style of training...#3. I like it

****SO>>>>>How much more is it important for the typical trainee to train in a similar way without steroids in his system.

GUYS...you don't have to be in the gym 5 and 6 days a week and train with high volume in order to see excellent gains while "on" steroids and in fact most of you would do better training fewer days and with lower volume but with more effort on those sets.

For those that are in the gym 6 days a week and like 10-20 sets per body part and are making good gains then more power to YA...but you just might do better training less frequently and with less volume.

**** I am genetically gifted and I have seen my best gains on gear training every other day on a three way split with low volume and big efforts.

Remember you easy gainers...the pro's are very genetically gifted, on more gear than most of you and don't have jobs or go to school.

EXAMPLE OF PROPER STEROID FREE TRAINING...for the genetically typical, or probably at least 90% of all bro's on this board. Notice the focus on the big basic compound movements.

********PLEASE...the genetically gifted and easy gainers need not make negative comments!*********

Some of you like to be in the gym 5-6 days a week and like higher volume with more isolation work and you do well without steroids ...that's fine...but most men simply cannot gain well or even keep what they gained from steroids training like you. Dare I say that maybe you too would do better by cutting volume a bit, increasing effort, focusing on the big basics and spending a little less time in the gym each week.

MONDAY

all exercises to be done slow and strict...nothing super explosive or rapid. The KEY is hard work and a focus on progressive poundage gains in small to tiny jumps weekly.

Incline bench (30 degree) or some type of incline press. 2-3 warm ups of 5 and then 2 sets hard for 8 reps

Declines or weighted dips with elbows out. 2 sets of 8. Best overall chest developer works the entire chest well.

Abs now to rest triceps. 2-3 sets each of crunches and hanging knee ups. Add weight if you can do more than 20 reps. Try to curl the hips upwards as the knees come up above the waist.

Lying tricep extensions. 1 warm up of 8 and then 2 sets of 10 hard

Dips with elbows in. I like the hammer dip machine 2 sets of 8-10.

Toe press in leg press machine. Slow and full for 4 sets of 10-15 reps. reduce weight after each set after only 90 second rests between sets. Works the entire calf including soleus.

WEDNESDAY

Pull downs or chins with palms facing you grip. 2-3 warm ups of 5 and then 2-3 sets of 10 hard. Use straps...arch low back at bottom. Slow and strict!

Some type of row....arch the low back and squeeze. 2 sets of 8-10 Great for mid upper back and rear delts

Overhead press to front either on a 85 degree bench with a barbell or in a machine (hammer is good) 2-3 warm ups of 5 and then 2-3 sets of 8 hard. Works the entire deltoid complex including the rear head

Upright row with straps. grip about 10 inches wide 2 sets of 10

Shrugs 2-3 sets of 10

Curls 3-4 sets of 10 hard

forearm work if you like

FRIDAY

SQUATS....you MUST SQUAT and squat correctly and that means upper thighs to AT LEAST parallel...lower is better. 3 warm ups of 5...don't tire yourself out.... then 2 and at most 3 all out sets of 10. These sets should take you a long time to complete with very high effort. Rest 4 minutes between sets.

Hard squatting and dead lifting make you anabolic and help gains all over your body.

Now go over to the leg press machine and set the back rest as low as it goes (helps with full range of motion) and load up about 75% of your max weight for 10 reps.

Do one warm up set with this weight...not for your thighs BTW as they are already toast...it's to get your low back used to the deep motion of the press properly done.

Then load up your max weight for 10.

leg extensions 1 all out set of 10-15 slow and with a hold at the top

...with no more than 30 seconds rest do the leg press with that top weight you loaded up. The leg extensions done before the leg press pre-exhaust the thighs a bit and the relatively fresh glutes/hams and hips will really push those quads.

Leg press deep and with feet high on platform. 1 all out set of 10

ALTERNATIVEY you can get really good results from simply 3 sets of 10 of very hard deep squats.

Squats properly done work the entire quad/glutes/hams and low back very well you really don't need anything else for the quads.

SQUAT TIP

One key is to go a little below parallel until you feel your sacrum/butt "dip" into the pocket. This activates the powerful glutes, hips and hams and allows for more weight to be squatted and more quad stimulation.

DONE QUADS...now sit down for 5 minutes!

Stiff leg dead lifts....to just below knee height. Use straps. Back straight. PIVOT AT THE HIP. By far the best ham worker and a very good erector movement too. 2 warm ups of 5 and then 2 very hard sets of 10

SLDL not only work the hams very well but they also work the low back very well too.

Hyperextensions with weight 2 set of 10-15

OR

regular dead lifts in the rack...set pins at just below knee height. 1 warm up and then one set of 8-10(no bouncing) use straps

leg curl. 2 sets of 8

DONE! Short but very tough leg/back workout if done with a lot of effort and more than enough for the non-steroid user. Now crawl to your post workout protein shake!

TRUE HARD GAINERS

Believe it or not bro's not a few of you need to do even fewer working sets than I listed in the above routine. Hard gainers have a very limited ability to recover from weight lifting and believe me hard gainers are not rare at all and are far more common than easy gainers.

*** While training, and especially while natural, you MUST make weight progression and HARD WORK in the big basic movements your priority. Try to progressively add small and then tiny bits of weight to the bars weekly or every two weeks...even a 1- 2 pound gain per week on the squat and a 1 pound or less per week or two gain in the bench for reps is good progress, after the going gets really tough. Get some small plates www.fractionalplates.com

*Make sure you keep the reps strict and full as you progress in poundage though...you want REALGAINS and not gains in poundage due to progressively rapid and poorly executed reps.

After failing to get even tiny increases in weight for several weeks reduce the working sets OR let the reps drop to sets of 5...still trying to up the weights. When progress halts again take 10 full day off from weights...come back with about 90% of your previous best for the higher reps and work your way up to and past your previous bests.

Forget about all the isolation stuff...I gave you enough already....

You want big pecks (in all regions) and triceps then add 75 pounds to your declines or dips with elbows out.

You want big triceps then focus on adding 50 pounds to the overhead press and dips with elbows in you want big biceps then focus on adding 50 pounds to your chins and 75 to your rows you want big side delt's then focus on adding 50 pounds to your over head presses.

YOU WANT BIG WELL SHAPED RIPPED QUADS, HAMS and ERECTORS then add 200 pounds to your 10-rep squat and 150 pounds to your stiff leg deads!

CARDIO

limit the cardio to no more than 3 times a week for 30 minutes at pop or it will eat into your recuperative powers.


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## Godzilla (Apr 18, 2003)

Excellent post!


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## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

Already had a preview of this from Hackskii

Excellent read mate

Thanks a lot


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## demon (Apr 23, 2003)

Yeah, good post hackskii.

I printed it out for future reference.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

actually read it

but is there anyway to dumb it down i am not sure if i have grasped the concept


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ask away Robin.

If you have any questions write them down and just ask.

There are alot of guys here with experience that can help here, after all this is why I came here in the first place.

Sharing thoughts and experiances in body building, diet and gear.

Remember, the questions that you ask will be someone elses questions as well.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

well here is my first question, i am in my post cycle now, holding onto the gains i am pretty sure

but i have been training with this huge guy, he overtrains alot but is huge, and doesn't eat, he is natural and even on anti inflamitories for arthritis and he still grow

he said for me to train with him for a while, and he will get me big

now i think he is overtraining alot and i am worried about loosing muscle from my cycle

i seem to be holding onto it now,

he trains very high intensity and does about 6 excercises per big muscle group and 3 each for arms, but he works arms 4 times a week,

i don't know if this will work for me

it could

but i just don't want to sacrifice my gains!

thanks guys


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Unless you are on some serious gear, working arms 4 times a week is overtraining. But Let see if the other guys agree.

Or you can try it and if you dont get injured or your lifts dont increase or you get smaller then try it.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

no i am not doing arms 4 times a week he does i am curently doing them twice but i think i am guna cut down to once

i am just saying is increasing sets threating my gains?

thanks


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

robin_3_16 said:


> no i am not doing arms 4 times a week he does i am curently doing them twice but i think i am guna cut down to once
> 
> i am just saying is increasing sets threating my gains?
> 
> thanks


Will increasing sets threaten your gains?

Well, it depends on if you are giving yourself enough time to rest between each workout day. The huge guy you mention probably has very good genetics and so can get away with working his arms 4 times a week. Most people however choose to work each muscle group just once a week.

If you start to hit a muscle group too often then you`ll be overtraining an end up getting worn out, so you`ll probably end up having a week or so off, and your motivation will go out the window. Which will all affect gains.

During PCT its difficult enough as it is to get enough energy & motivation to keep hitting those weights and you need to try and keep that strength up and lift those same weights as you were previously. My best advice during PCT workouts is that if ache on a day when you are planning to do a workout, leave it another day, as your body needs extra time to recover than when you were on a cycle.

Your bound to loose some strength and some size, but dont let it de-motivate you. Think back to how you were before the cycle, and even if you lost 1/2 your gains, you`d still be bigger than you were previously.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

turbo said:


> My best advice during PCT workouts is that if ache on a day when you are planning to do a workout, leave it another day, as your body needs extra time to recover than when you were on a cycle.


Good advice here. It is easier to overtrain when test levels are low.


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## BIGP119 (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi new to this site...

ur bang on hackskii...exactly the way I train and ive place first in a comp and second with that style of training.I found that out yrs ago that ur average trainer cant take the volume approach after followin one of the pros routine and actually gettin smaller.I try to tell guys that in my gym but they dont listen to me even though I have one of the best physiques down there and one of the strongest.They go right back to doin a half hour biceps routine when I just do 1 exercise for biceps and they always wanna see my arms then..ha.....good post..alot of people need to wake up and smell the coffee.And if your goin to listen to any pro....defentely dorian..he keeps it simple


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Agreed!

NICE post


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

a really good informative read.


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## dirtride (Jan 19, 2005)

nice post hacks,, well done.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

This post is a year old......haaa haaa

Thanks.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

hackskii said:


> This post is a year old......haaa haaa
> 
> Thanks.


Well it should be a sticky!


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## Atlas123 (Oct 15, 2005)

I've recommended this site to all my mates because of first class posts like these - excellent read


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## dynamatiz (Nov 7, 2005)

cant believe ive missed this one, quality stuff hackskii

rep points for sure


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

Bump again


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

bump to read later


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## LondonGeezer (May 25, 2006)

EXCELLENT POST HACKS!!

:beer:


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## Toregar (Apr 5, 2006)

It's so weird I didn't notice this board a couple months ago =/ ... Needless to say I've been printing off EVERYTHING, and reading it all thoroughly. Posting some of it up on my walls at home 

Anywhoo, it's about time for a 3 month bump


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## darkstar (Jan 6, 2007)

Man my jewels feel almost bigger three weeks into a test prop. cyc. only.

I guess ill start HCG at small doses.


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## simeon69 (Nov 15, 2007)

bump for a very imformative posts reps mate!!

very good read cant belive never came across this earlier!!


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## gurry (Jun 6, 2007)

i vote for a stickee!


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

:bump: :bump: bumpty :bump: for later read!!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I did not write the original post, I dont use words like blathering.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

agree with it-but what if back probs and not squatting-what safely for legs/lumber


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Sheeesh now that's a post!! Thanks Scott, you should start writting a book. That's a quality piece you have written.

EDIT : Just seen it was written like a year ago.... So where's the publish book now???


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

TaintedSoul said:


> Sheeesh now that's a post!! Thanks Scott, you should start writting a book. That's a quality piece you have written.
> 
> EDIT : Just seen it was written like a year ago.... So where's the publish book now???


**************Ahem***********************



hackskii said:


> I did not write the original post, I dont use words like blathering.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Hacks 

Write a book 

Please 

and when you write the dedication part you can include me


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Captain Hero said:


> Hacks
> 
> Write a book
> 
> ...


I guess I could, but I don't do this stuff because I need the money, I do this stuff because I enjoy sharing, and enjoy learning (my favorite).

Not only that but everything I have learned came free to me so how in the hell can I justify charging someone else for my free

information?

Push come to shove and I needed the money then ok, until then it was free to me and it is free to all.

Since magazines are bullsh!t, you have to get the information some where.

On another note, yes, some books I did pay for, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The day I charge is the day I lose the love of this game and at this point it turn's into work..........................Screw that...................


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

have a read of survival of the fitest by mike stroud-you will like it


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## takeone (May 23, 2007)

good read,i will try that workoutwhen i start my pct.


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## Heydrich (Mar 27, 2007)

i'm new to the forum, but that was a great read, and have taken it on board, I'm looking to do growth hormone myself soon in the latter part of my cycle, as soon as i find a reputable pharmacy.

thanks for the read

Heydrich


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## tylerx (Feb 20, 2008)

Scott; I thank you for that great and sound advice. I was at my very best form when I was training infrequently and pushing for three time per week. This does help because some of the programs I have looked at were more structured for the chemically aided folks. Although I will be joining their ranks later this year or next year. At pesent I want to push hard natrually and see if I can reach that peak again. All good things in due time. However one thing goes for sure after doing a near 500 lbs Squat; I have little interest in pushing too far in that area because it landed me with a rather painful lower back injury for a few weeks early this year however that was owing to my not using a belt and in attempts to prove a point. Thanks for the advice and this post Scott.


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## bogman (Jun 25, 2007)

Great post.... just read it... as a hard gainer, have made good gains in my lifts using Big's Dual Factor training which is a 3 day/2 day a week routine.


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## O DOGG (Aug 12, 2008)

thanks mate ...... great post may the force be with you


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## bulkingphase (Aug 28, 2008)

Hello,please help! Im doing 100mg (2 vials) test prop Ed,ive only been onit for 4 weeks becasue of funds,got good gains & great strength! Got clomid for after,whats the best way i can keep these strength & size gains,pleas ehelp cheers J


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

How about ZMA together with Normal pct. For ex: novaldex + ZMA + proviron(for the libido bridge) and them some creatine and bcaa.All this training 3 times a week.

Thank´s.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, beings that zinc is totally important for testosterone production and immune system, then this is always welcome.

Not to mention zinc's mild anti-aromataze inhibition, all is good.

Zinc defencies are pretty common, this is one mineral that should be supplemented.


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

Thank you for the quick answer, that is what i will do, whit the pct, take 3 pill of ZMA(about 45mg of zinc) at bed time, for 30 days.


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## dirtymusket1 (May 24, 2008)

Great post Hackskii

Very informative


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## bulkingphase (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi,any one ever done a short test prop cycle & got great strength & size gains? Apart from pct how can i keep the strength i have,im pushing 130 kg on the flat bench,i dont want it to drop down to 90 kg again lol,im lovin it


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## Walshyp (May 1, 2008)

Top post mate! Gonna give the routine a go! Cheers!


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## wolverine (Jan 17, 2009)

nice read m8. I always run with hcg, nolva clomid and proviron right thro. No probs eva, only side effect was bad acne wif last cycle as i stacked on tren, however i was able to get sum roaccutine wich had me cleared within 3wks.

The training regime is interesting n i will keep it in mind!!!!


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## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

Excellent read.

Say no more:beer:


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## kipster (Jun 14, 2008)

very good post again,gona save this post for future reference,thanks Hackskii


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## Bazooka Tooth (Apr 7, 2009)

good post


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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

thanks for such informative post


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

just gonna print this info out now, it will come with me to the gym in my workout log book

looking forward to trying out this routine

impressive info for all no matter how long in the game i think


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## iMORE_TEST (May 23, 2009)

great advice,great post


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## timmytom (May 31, 2009)

hackskii said:


> Unless you are on some serious gear, working arms 4 times a week is overtraining. But Let see if the other guys agree.
> 
> Or you can try it and if you dont get injured or your lifts dont increase or you get smaller then try it.


hey thats a good post,it took me a while to understand it properly but i think i get what your saying.i was wondering if i took nap50'.say for abt a month, would i shrink down in size if i stopped taking them or could i stay the same size if doing the right workouts?im sorry if you've already mentioned this in your post,like i said i had trouble understanding it.thanks for your time and hope to hear from u soon


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Naps will give you alot of weight, and that might not be muscle.

They are supressive, they are a very strong steroid and the strongest oral there is and the only one associated with liver cancer.

I dont know why you would take anadrol myself, anavar is much safer and the gains you get you will be easier to keep.

Not to mention low on supression.


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## Van (May 22, 2009)

Thanks for the post, id like to know what HGC is ( can i find more about it on these boards?) and will most suplyers know what this stuff is if i ask for it ?

thanks!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Read the sticky understanding PCT in the steroid section, there are other articles too and just use the search button.

If your source does not know what HCG is then chances are he is pushing fake gear....lol


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

i'm bumping this


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

bump


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

bumpity bump


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## Críostóir (Dec 12, 2009)

irambo said:


> If someone interesting in Diamond Pharma products e-mail me; [email protected]


no


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

Excellent post matey.

The training information IMO is second to none, in fact almost identical to the way i train. After years of trial and listening to my body, i came to the conclusion that being an average guy, meaning average genetics, almost a hard gainer, that getting the job done with the fewest sets possible was absolutely the way to go.

I actually do very few working sets per bodypart, and make great gains from this. Too many working sets to me means pacing myself which kind of defeats the purpose. I agree the Mr Weider and a few others are only telling half a story.

I see so many people of all ages at the gym who must be doing over 20 working sets per bodypart, hammering themselves into the ground, due to bodybuilding myth evolving into bodybuilding law, if that makes any sense.

Well done and Hallallooya!


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## Nicolai (Apr 3, 2010)

Simply an amazing post! Thank you!


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

Awesome post! Food for thought indeed


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## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

I was always being told to use nolva with a dosage of 20mg/d for 4 weeks.

Now I read this it means that nolva needs a kickstart to work better for a faster recovery. Is this true?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I personally dont think it matters with clomid and nolva in the mix.


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## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm intending to use nolva and aromasin during my PCT.

Would it be better to take 80mg of nolva for 1 day, then 6 days 40mg/d following by 3 weeks of 20mg/d?


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## ian36uk (Jun 2, 2009)

this was really good

all content no filler


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, the doc I talked to about PCT didnt mention front loading it.


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## sliplats (Apr 11, 2010)

hi im new to this site but have regulary visted to read threads ive been training for a year now and no nothing about suppliments and what they can do for you. im looking to increase muscle size but need info on how to achieve the best results i was thinking of using oxbol50 but am not sure what this can do for me or if its the best thing for what i want to acheive also stuff you get from holland and barrets for example creatine, whey protien what do these do and should i be using them im totally clueless and need some guidance thanks any info is appreciated .


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## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

hackskii said:


> On opening "SERM day", post cycle, you want to do a "loading dose" of about 200-300mg of clomid in divided doses in order to get blood levels up pronto. Then take 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for 3 more weeks MINIMUM... and longer after Deca use.
> 
> Alternatively you can use nolva at 80mg on day one in divided dose and then 40mg /day for a week and then 20mg/day for at least 3 more weeks.


So you're saying that this doesn't mean anything?


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## Nutz01 (Jan 27, 2009)

Great post mate.

Will plan my post cycle workouts on this information.


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## sliplats (Apr 11, 2010)

if that post was for me then no


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Snuff-Sann said:


> So you're saying that this doesn't mean anything?


This is what I am saying, or the endo's say.

100mg clomid ED between 5 to 7 days doubles LH output and increases FSH from 20% to 50%.

That is what I am saying.

With that said, do you really think more is better?

I mean how could it be?

Those numbers are freaking crazy and measurable.

Why mess with success?


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## twitch (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi all

Just registered on the site to ask this as i found the post on google.. hackskii, top notch post mate even if it is as old as i am.

Im afraid although it all looks very useful i dont actually know what half of it means.. All the abbreviations may as well be chinese to me, What do they all mean?

E.G HPTA, HCG, LH, GnRH, and what are SERMS?

Basically, without flaming me (i've already decided to start a cycle and have the product etc.) Im in the middle of googling the best way to do this, but perhaps someone could help. Im going to be taking deca & sus as recommended by a friend, but what should i be taking alongside it to prevent testicular atrophy and any other potential side effects? And whatever they may be, are they as illegal as the steroids themselves or would i be able to pick them up easily? If you are kind enough to answer these questions for me, dumb it down as much as you can please.. Im a mechanic, nuff said.

Thanks for any help you may give me


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Read the Sticky in the steroid section that says "understanding PCT"

Then you can ask the questions there after your brush up on the read, it will answer the abbreviations as well.


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## Ninja (Apr 28, 2010)

Great post.

End of story. :beer:


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## aseeby19 (May 3, 2010)

I have decided to do hypettrophy through pct , any thoughts?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

aseeby19 said:


> I have decided to do hypettrophy through pct , any thoughts?


What do you mean?


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## aseeby19 (May 3, 2010)

hackskii said:


> What do you mean?


Oh sorry I meant hypertrophy workout eg.

Workout 3* wk

Workout A

2 sets of

Squat

Leg curl

Bench.

Deads

Chins

Dips

Miltary press

Shrug

Workout B

Leg press

Stiff Deads

Incline bench

Wide grip chins

Shoulder press

Skull crushers

Calf raises.

Workout a on the 3rd day and then workout b a b next week and so on ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, if you add stimulation via way of resistance training, the body has an adaptive responce to the stimulation at hand.

Pretty much all workouts will add hypertrophy, and even moreso in the begenning.

But I dont feel there is any one way of getting around this, and you can skin a cat by more ways than one.


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## charliesway (Aug 8, 2010)

HCG

Take it at 500 IU's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.

Hi just wondered where abouts in an 8 week cycle to do this??

I am taking tren ace 1ml every other day and winstrol inject every other day.

Thanks


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## billy_101 (Aug 24, 2010)

Amazing read right here , bumping


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## swampy9785 (Sep 27, 2008)

Great post. I know this question should perhaps be in the diet section, but I wanted you to ask you directly please Hackskii. I've previously read to up your calories during pct to also help keep gains. Is this correct, and would you then lower them after the 4 weeks of pct? thanks


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I would keep things at maintenance for PCT, you wont gain nor lose weight.

When androgens are low blood sugar regulation can be a problem.

Low androgens we dont want to add weight due to we might be adding fat.

Loss of calls might mean more catabolism due to low androgens.

Catch 22.


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## musclefox (Oct 21, 2008)

Good read.. :thumb:


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## deeppurple (Mar 13, 2010)

charliesway said:


> HCG
> 
> Take it at 500 IU's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.
> 
> ...


good lord boy. 400mg of tren a week...i hope this aint your first course.


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## swampy9785 (Sep 27, 2008)

hackskii said:


> I would keep things at maintenance for PCT, you wont gain nor lose weight.
> 
> When androgens are low blood sugar regulation can be a problem.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your speedy reply


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dutch_scott said:


> a proper tren course is 1200mg -2g tren so dnt go scaring new guys with stuff like this brothers :confused1:


Damn, that would cause me to have spontanious combustion with that, and have stage III stroke range with that cycle:lol:


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## B-lean (Aug 26, 2010)

top post fella. wish i had known this kinda info years ago before i wasted my gains over and over.was wondering if you have any advice on bringing back testicle size after they have shrunk. I have not done any steroids for atleast two years know and they are still atrophied from when i used to abuse without correct pct and off time. I am 27 and have low test levels. I see an endocrinologist but he monitors me every 6months or so to see my levels but never really does anything to cure me? Is it a perminent atrophy do you think? my sperm count all works ok and i dont have ED but would like to try and get some natural test back up to average level. I am around 160 pounds and 12 percent bodyfat by drapers formula that is. Any advice on the atrophy thing would be much apreciated. many thanks , B-lean


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

B-lean said:


> top post fella. wish i had known this kinda info years ago before i wasted my gains over and over.was wondering if you have any advice on bringing back testicle size after they have shrunk. I have not done any steroids for atleast two years know and they are still atrophied from when i used to abuse without correct pct and off time. I am 27 and have low test levels. I see an endocrinologist but he monitors me every 6months or so to see my levels but never really does anything to cure me? Is it a perminent atrophy do you think? my sperm count all works ok and i dont have ED but would like to try and get some natural test back up to average level. I am around 160 pounds and 12 percent bodyfat by drapers formula that is. Any advice on the atrophy thing would be much apreciated. many thanks , B-lean


You probably are fine, in the steroid section of the board there is a sticky on PCT, you can thumb through that, then if you have any questions, ask on that thread.


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## EmporioMani (Jun 25, 2010)

the post is really important for all of us and gr8 work Scott.

well one question, why is it easier to overtrain when your T levels are low ?

2nd question, how about doing 3 days a week weight lifting (bodybuilding) and 2 days a week cardiovascular exercises for 30 mins on each day when u are off cycle ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Being low in testosterone makes recovery take longer so in essence if you are training this could tap into recovery hindering gains.

Low testosterone levels also compromise blood sugar levels and a bunch of stuff.


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## APG (Mar 1, 2011)

This is a top read. well written and fairly clear and understandable. The section on training volumes will be very helpful for many people and i found it very informative.


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

haks are u sponsored by hcg manufacturers? you always waaaay over glamourise it.... so the point of this essay was that dorian yates said training less is more... no disrespect but not a big fan of this 1 lad.. you always talk about gear but how come u dont use? (serious question)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

andy gibbs said:


> haks are u sponsored by hcg manufacturers? you always waaaay over glamourise it.... so the point of this essay was that dorian yates said training less is more... no disrespect but not a big fan of this 1 lad.. you always talk about gear but how come u dont use? (serious question)


I posted that 8 years ago, I forgot what it even says. :lol:

If you do not have testicular function recovery is not possible.

HCG works best for this.

Not a sponsor at all.

I dont even know what I wrote about Dorian, remember original post was 8 years ago and I am not going to read it all over again.

Some of that was written by a TRT doctor named Swale (Dr. John Christler).

I have used gear for years, just now with my gyno, and higher blood pressure, its sides are more than I need.

I am 52, fully sexual, have night time erections, normal libido, I am not going to compromise anything for a bit of gear.

I respond very well to steroids, but the whole recovery deal, the gyno flairups, higher blood pressure, its not worth it anymore to me.

Bodybuilding is a very vain sport, some guys will do anything to look good on the outside.

I have a friend that looked awesome, but had the cardiovascular health of a 70 year old man, had pancreatitis, the lowest HDL the doctor ever saw at 5, anxiety issues, blood pressure issues, all from steroids, at one point with the pancreatitis, we actually thought he was not even going to make it.

But, for him wanting to look good, it costed him big time.

Looking good means little to me now, my happiness means alot.


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## Super -ingh (Aug 2, 2009)

Add Title


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