# DNP...first cycle. Advice?



## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Hey guys/girl...

Here's my second attempt at posting this thread, so I'll keep it short and add more detail shortly!



Pic taken feb'13 after a 28day fitness/nutritional programme I followed

What I'm going to run:

125mg for first 5-7days, then possibly upping to 250mg depending on my tolerance.

T3 50mcg - will I need to up this if I up the dnp?

3000mg VitC

800iu VitE

electrolytes

Anything I'm missing?

I was thinking of supplementing magnesium or 5-HTP as a sleep aid, any thoughts on this?

Diet:

Upon waking: 125mg dnp & T3 50mcg

GYM

Post workout shake; usually 30g whey & 5g creatine,

1hr later I'll either have a super shake: 500ml coconut milk/water, 30g whey, Tbsp wheatgrass, frozen spinach cubes, maca powder, chia seeds, blueberries, flaxseed, coconut oil, cinammon & ginger. Or 30-40g oats in 100ml coconut milk, topped with 3-4 scrambled eggs & tsp of agave syrup.

*all other vitamins that have been recommended for the cycle.

lunch: chicken and green veggies, possibly a sweet potato or rice.

snack: protein shake and almonds (any other suggestions?)

dinner: chicken or fish and green veg

pre-bed: casein shake, oat cakes and pb. Or CC and scoop of whey.

Would really appreciate any input you guys can add to this.

Thanks in advance


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## bigtoe900 (Jul 26, 2012)

looks good, no need to up the t3. have a good run and happy sweating lol


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## MA1984 (Jul 5, 2012)

hey mate,

I've used DNP once and will be doing another small cycle soon. Heres the protocol I follow from basskiller's wesbsite:

The 7-day DNP fat loss plan involves a moderate to high dosage of DNP for fat burning. The DNP fat loss plan involves a 7-day on, 7-day off approach with four distinct phases. Most athletes using DNP follow this type of cycle. The phases are as follows:

Phase 1: The 3-day Carb-Depletion Phase.

Phase 2: The 1-day Thyroxine (T3) Re-normalization Phase.

Phase 3: The 14-day DNP Phase.

Phase 4: The 2-day Post-DNP Phase.

Phase 1. The 3-day Carb-depletion phase

Phase One has a three-day duration and begins the four days preceding the ingestion of DNP. The purpose of this phase is to deplete muscle-glycogen content by restricting carbohydrates. This is achieved through a Ketogenic style diet.

Kcals should be restricted to 10-12 times bodyweight in lbs. And carbohydrates should be restricted to less than 60g/day. Protein is consumed at 1 gram per pound of bodyweight or higher and the remaining dietary calories should come from fat.

This phase lasts exactly 3 days, and will reduce muscle-glycogen levels so that the body is forced to rely on fat as fuel more readily when you start your DNP cycle.

Phase 2 The 1-day Thyroxine (T3) Re-normalization Phase

This is a new concept for DNP dieting. During the past three days, the athlete has restricted carbohydrates and as a direct consequence T4-T3 conversion is slowed down resulting in reduced T3 levels. This is bad for the DNP phase, as you need enough active T3 to last throughout the entire 7-day on DNP phase.

Day four of the DNP cycle involves a mega-carbohydrate meal at mid-afternoon (4-6PM) designed to create a massive insulin spike and re-normalize T4-T3. This concept has been extrapolated from ketogenic diets and has been shown to dramatically increase serum concentrations of T3.

Day 4 involves Keto eating until the Mega-carb meal. Then in the late afternoon, at least circa 250g of carbohydrates must be consumed to create an insulin spike. Any sugar (fructose, sucrose, maltose etc.) is fair game. Fructose in particular is good because it primarily re-fills liver glycogen which is directly involved in T4-T3 conversion. (Empty liver glycogen signals the thyroid to decrease T4-T3 conversion).

As a side-note, a 250g carb-meal after three days of Keto dieting creates a more pronounced insulin spike than would a 250g carb-meal after three days of normal eating.

Kcals during Phase 2 should be kept at 15X Bodyweight in lbs. Macro-nutrient break-downs can be calculated by the athlete. The only carb intake on day 4 should be the 250g carb-meal.

Phase 3 The 14-Day DNP Phase

The first two days of actual DNP consumption are the most important to follow correctly. During Days 1 and 2 of the actual DNP portion of the cycle, it must be determined if the athlete will have an allergic reaction to DNP.

Day 1: 200 mg of DNP is ingested

Day 2: 200 mg of DNP is ingested

At this point the dieter should be able to assess if an allergic reaction has occurred. A DNP-stimulated allergic reaction will lead to swelling in as little as 1 to 2 days time. Approximately 10% of athletes will have such a reaction. The unfortunate few who experience this type of a reaction must terminate the cycle immediately. Benadryl or Ketotifen (Anti-histamines) can be used to treat mild symptoms. Obviously a doctor should be consulted should the symptoms prove more severe.

Day 3: Dieters making it to day 3 of the DNP phase have the option of increasing their dosage. The normal dosage for beginners is 400mg DNP/day. Even an amount this small should provide outstanding results. A word of caution. DO NOT TAKE MORE, if you are not experienced with DNP-use. More advanced users may chose to go higher based on past experience.

The 400mg/day dosage is maintained from Day 3 through Day 9(Exactly 7 days). The last dose is taken on Day 9.

Supplementation and Nutritional Protocol for a DNP cycle:

1. An ECA stack is beneficial while on a DNP cycle as it as it acts as an anorectant. DNP raises Neuro-peptide Y levels in the brain, which is directly linked to increased hunger. Consuming 75-100mg total of ephedrine alkaloids/day should be sufficient to suppress appetite. PPA (Nor-ephedrine) should NOT be used as it causes lethargy when combined with DNP.

2. Anti-oxidants. Due to the DNP induced rapid combustion of fats, free-radical production skyrockets up-wards. To combat this, anti-oxidants must be used. Anti-oxidants are the single most important supplement to take on a DNP cycle.

a) Fat-soluble Anti-O: Vitamin E: 1000mgs/day

B) Water-soluble Anti-O: Vitamin C: 2-3g/day

c) Alpha Lipoic acid: 600-1000mgs/day

Dual-anti-oxidant: BOTH fat & water-soluble actually re-cycles other anti-oxidants.

3. Glycerol: Although optional, glycerol is often consumed at 15ml's 3X/day. Glycerol increases hydration for many athletes.

No additional supplements are really required other than these three. All the rest you have read in various DNP articles are more for peace of mind than improved functionality. I consider them overkill.

4. Water: Not a supplement, but an absolute necessity.

DNP causes sweating and can be incredibly dehydrating. Dehydration is the NUMBER ONE cause of most DNP problems and deaths. Excessive dehydration results in over-heating. Dieters who do not replenish fluids properly while on a DNP cycle could die. The consensus among athletes is that at least two gallons of water must be consumed daily.

5. EAT FRUIT while on your DNP cycle.

Fruit for some reason has been found to greatly reduce the lethargy associated with a DNP cycle. It also has a high water content, therefore it helps to keep the dieter hydrated. Watermelon is an obvious recommendation.

6. Dietary intake: There are several schools of thought on this matter, but sticking to the old standard always works.

Kcals should be kept anywhere from 10-15X Bodyweight in lbs. Macro-nutrient break-downs should be kept at around 20% fat, 30% protein and 50% carbs. (Changing the ratios in favor of more carbs and protein w/ less fat will result in a more fat loss but nothing special. Also, remember that more carbohydrates means more heat.)

Take for example the 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder. He would consume anywhere from 2200 to 3300Kcal /day (Depending on his appetite control).

WHAT NOT TO DO on a DNP cycle.

a) Do not under any circumstances consume alcohol or ANY type of diuretic while on a DNP cycle. Alcohol and diuretics will dehydrate you and can cause SERIOUS problems.

B) Do not remain in a hot environment without replenishing fluid loss due to perspiration. This too can also cause SERIOUS problems.

c) Do not begin with a high dosage of DNP if you are a novice. This is just asking for a trip to the ICU.

The half-life of 2,4 Dinitrophenol is 36 hours. So, after 36 hours, there is only 50% of the DNP remaining in your system. Therefore, 72 hours later 25% remains. Then 12.5% remains after 108 hours. After 5 days (120 hours), there's roughly 9% of the DNP left in your body that you had on Day 9. This DNP concentration is low-enough to allow you to begin Phase 4 of the cycle -- the 2-day Post-DNP phase -- without compromising glycogen synthesis rates. Kcals during Days 10-14 should remain the same as during days 3-9.

Phase 4: The 2 day Post DNP Phase.

The whole purpose of this phase is to get muscle-glycogen levels back to normal. The Ketogenic carb-up can be used as a sort of template for this phase.

After Phases two and three, muscle-glycogen levels are depressed and need to be replenished.

Day 15: Carb-intake should be 7g/Kg of LBM (lean body mass = bodyweight minus body fat.) So assuming a 220 lb bodybuilder has 0% body fat, lol, he would consume 700 g of Carbs. Protein-intake remains at 1g/lb and fat is restricted as low as possible.

The focus on day 1 should be on High-GI foods like Fat-free Ice-cream and all the other non-fat high sugar desserts. Calories should be around 4000 for the 220-lb bodybuilder -- in other words, 18X bodyweight in lbs.

Drastically restricting fat is CRITICAL here, as the body is still burning fat for fuel as you replenish your glycogen stores. In essence, the dieter is still losing fat while carbing up.

Day 16: Muscle-glycogen has increased, so carb-intake should be decreased from day one's 7g/Kg to only 5g/Kg of LBM. That would be 500g for our 220-lb bodybuilder. Protein is 1g/lb again. Fat remains as low as possible. Kcals for the dieter are reduced to 3000 Kcal range, or around 14X Bodyweight in lbs. The focus of Day 2 should be low-GI foods like vegetables, milk, lean meats etc.

Additional Precautions:

Dieters feeling extremely nauseated or who vomit during a cycle should discontinue use immediately and not restart for at least 36 hours.

Dieters should carry a pocket thermometer at all times. If body temperature rises above 102 Fahrenheit then the dosage should be lowered or the cycles should be terminated. Additionally, the dieter should take a very cold bath to lower the temperature.

In addition to water, V8 juice should be consumed. Drinking gallons of water depletes the body of electrolytes pretty badly predisposing the dieter to shock, nausea, lethargy, and even death. V8 is the best for replenishing electrolytes as it contains 950mg of potassium per 8oz compared to Gatorade's 35mg of potassium in 8oz.

Massive amounts of fruits and sweets should be consumed if one becomes nauseated or vomits - i.e. force feed yourself.

Dieters should never allow themselves to become overheated on a DNP cycle. Always stay next to a fan and keep the air conditioner on. Do not attempt a DNP cycle if you work out doors in a warm climate or another warm environment like a kitchen. Even at low doses this can build up and be potentially dangerous.

There are two versions of DNP - regular and crystalline. Know which one you are taking. When taking the crystalline DNP caps, never take more than 200mg at once if you've never used it before. Even if you are used to it, it is still much safer to spread the dosage throughout the day. Crystalline DNP is much faster acting and can rapidly elevate temperature.

Post-Steroid Cycle Use of DNP

One of the primary causes of muscle breakdown after a steroid cycle is suppressed TSH. Anabolic steroids suppress TSH, which in turn lowers T3 and T4 production by the thyroid gland. The reduction in TSH is one reason that anabolic steroids are such excellent muscle builders.

Soon after the completion of a steroid cycle, TSH up-regulates, which in turn super-stimulates the thyroid. This excess stimulation causes the thyroid to produce above normal levels of T3 and T4. This increase in thyroid hormones is highly catabolic and is the main reason why people lose muscle post-cycle.

Athletes have learned that they need to restrict T3 production post cycle to prevent muscle loss. A novel approach to achieving this goal is the use of DNP. About 80% of the body's endogenous T3 is produced from the metabolically inactive T4 to the metabolically active T3. The de-iodinase enzyme is responsible for this conversion. It literally cleaves off an iodine molecule.

By ingesting 200mg DNP/day, the athlete can correct the over stimulated Thyroid, returning T3 levels back to normal. DNP directly blocks the production of T3 from T4 via the de-iodinase enzyme.

As a bonus, the reduction in your ATP stores because of the DNP is counter acted by an increase in the oxidation of triglycerides as an energy source. The benefit is the elimination of any potential fat-gain from the low post-cycle testosterone levels. And as DNP is non-hormonal, it has no effect on HPTA recovery.

After cessation of DNP use post-cycle, the athlete will reap the benefits of the "Anabolic Rebound Effect" which further lends credence to the use of DNP as a post-cycle ancillary for the elimination of any post-cycle muscular losses.


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks for the responses guys :thumbup1:


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

I think you need to bulk up before considering DNP IMO. See what anyone else thinks though.


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

ZyZee_2012 said:


> I think you need to bulk up before considering DNP IMO. See what anyone else thinks though.


Thanks for your opinion mate, appreciate all the input I get.

My aim in using DNP would be to assist in shaving the last bit of fat around my waist as I'm pretty lean everywhere else. From there I'd finish dnp (2-3wks cycle max) and switch to carb cycling in the hope of adding lean mass over the rest of the year whilst maintaining my bodyfat at as low as possible for me.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

MA1984 said:


> hey mate,
> 
> I've used DNP once and will be doing another small cycle soon. Heres the protocol I follow from basskiller's wesbsite:
> 
> ...


I saw this article - the 4 phases and the use of high carbs some time ago, and I dont agree with some of it (particularly the high carbs - in my human guinea pig experiments on myself fat loss was significantly higher on carb restricted diet)... I am just finishing off some research on both how DNP works from scientific papers, and also how normal ATP functions in non-DNP'd Mitochondria, and some of the cycle advice - and I cant think who originally wrote this - doesn't stack up with the cell-biology and what happens when you add DNP, and what carbs actually do when on DNP. Until research is complete though - I stick by my advice you will find peppered all over this part of the forum. Total carbs should be restricted to 50-100mg per day.

I will Post the article in the next 3 weeks, so keep your eyes peeled. And as with my other articles - they will be based on as much science as I can lay my hands on - coupled with personal self-administered lab rat tests.


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

I was going to stick to lower carbs anyhow, as my body doesnt respond that well to high amounts. What would you say is the best carb source whilst using dnp? Complex or simple, or maybe a bit of both?


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Any suggestions on where to buy VitE and the ALA, a particular brand or anything I should be aware of?


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## Daz26 (Apr 28, 2009)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2312986/Sarah-Houston-Banned-slimming-drug-DNP-kills-medical-student-coroner-attacks-online-dealers-target-vulnerable.html

Fck that! Think ill ruin myself on the treadmill long before id consider ingesting DNP, especially if youre not even competing


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## Stillers (Jul 14, 2009)

Daz26 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2312986/Sarah-Houston-Banned-slimming-drug-DNP-kills-medical-student-coroner-attacks-online-dealers-target-vulnerable.html
> 
> Fck that! Think ill ruin myself on the treadmill long before id consider ingesting DNP, especially if youre not even competing


I get what you're saying but if its not abused, and this girl may done so by taking Prozac with DNP, then it's relatively safe to use.

How people have died running this year? Many more than the 62 people that have died (ever) from taking DNP, I'll bet.


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## Daz26 (Apr 28, 2009)

@Stillers fair one mate, was aimed more at the OP than the wider audience. I see DNP as a dirty compound only used by competitive bbders wanting that extra few %, not your average Joe gym goer looking to tighten up for holiday having eaten **** for the last 6mths (no ref to op!) people are popping them like aspirin...


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Daz26 said:


> @Stillers fair one mate, was aimed more at the OP than the wider audience. I see DNP as a dirty compound only used by competitive bbders wanting that extra few %, not your average Joe gym goer looking to tighten up for holiday having eaten **** for the last 6mths (no ref to op!) people are popping them like aspirin...


Thats a fair shout...and like I've said all along I posted here to get advice and everyone can have their own opinion.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Daz26 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2312986/Sarah-Houston-Banned-slimming-drug-DNP-kills-medical-student-coroner-attacks-online-dealers-target-vulnerable.html
> 
> Fck that! Think ill ruin myself on the treadmill long before id consider ingesting DNP, especially if youre not even competing


another Daily Fail article. the give away that she was taking a high dose, probably 500mg or more, is the fact that whites of her eyes were noticeably yellow. on the doses discussed here that wont happen. so she was taking to much, and the coupled with the prescription drugs, gave a cocktail with unknown effects.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ammo23 said:


> I was going to stick to lower carbs anyhow, as my body doesnt respond that well to high amounts. What would you say is the best carb source whilst using dnp? Complex or simple, or maybe a bit of both?


brown rice (lovely - takes longer to cook), wholemeal pasta (tastes less appealing), sweet potato - strange but true, and lots and lots of veggies...


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ammo23 said:


> Any suggestions on where to buy VitE and the ALA, a particular brand or anything I should be aware of?


I get it from ebay. D-Vits do a 400iu gell cap, Swansons a 600mg ALA cap, I use clubvits on ebay for VitC - all great an very cheap,


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

mini Bump...diet added to initial post, looking for comments/suggestions, if changes needed?

thanks in advance.

@DiggyV, thanks for all the advice mate...appreciate it.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Take your vits and other supps seperate from T3.

Take them with your first meal and T3 & DNP on an empty stomach.

I've found as little carbs as possible yielding better results


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks @G-man99, I'll change that. DNP/T3 before fasted training, and the rest with post shake/breakfast


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> Take your vits and other supps seperate from T3.
> 
> Take them with your first meal and T3 & DNP on an empty stomach.
> 
> I've found as little carbs as possible yielding better results


Interesting G - I always take mine all together - no noticed a huge difference - I'll try it next time and not any difference. :thumb:


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Was Mars who informed me that T3 should only be taken on an empty stomach and no food for at least 30mins.

Vitamins etc where also included in this.


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## Countryboy (May 26, 2012)

I take T3 and DNP as soon as i can before i eat, then vits not long after.

Club vits is where i got my vit C and E, 15£ for more than i'll need

ive had no real problem just hate hot rooms atm because they make me feel really warm


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Club vits is where i got my vit C and E, 15£ for more than i'll need


Thanks, will take a look at them :thumbup1:

Cant wait for the warmth sides tbh!


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

ammo23 said:


> Thanks, will take a look at them :thumbup1:
> 
> Cant wait for the warmth sides tbh!


youll prob regret sayin that when your balls deep in sweat!


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

Just_Bob said:


> youll prob regret sayin that when your balls deep in sweat!


It'll save on the the heating bill! I work from home and am always cold to the point my fingers are turning blue! A bit of heat and sweat will make a nice change...(i hope!)


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

ammo23 said:


> It'll save on the the heating bill! I work from home and am always cold to the point my fingers are turning blue! A bit of heat and sweat will make a nice change...(i hope!)


Ha fair enuf mate


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## ammo23 (Jul 13, 2011)

@Just_Bob, have you tried it or thought about trying it yourself? Whats your thoughts


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

ammo23 said:


> @Just_Bob, have you tried it or thought about trying it yourself? Whats your thoughts


Ive got some im just waiting for the right time when i can afford to sweat and be knackered! Will prob give it a go in a couple weeks, makin sure i read as much about it as i can also!


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