# Interesting read on IGF-1LR3



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have said many times of late that IGF-1LR3 does nothing for muscle growth and what many feel is growth is the "Pump" side effect that comes with its use, here is an abstract that clearly indicates that IGF1 plays *no role whatsoever in exercise-induced muscle growth*. It is involved in developmental muscle growth and tissue regeneration, which both involve different pathways. IGF1 has been shown useful for healing injured tissues.

this study i got from Dats site you can find it here Dats Forum

All credit goes to VX1 from that forum......



> IGF1 and Muscle Growth
> 
> IGF1 is thought to induce muscle hypertrophy, by distinct mechanisms. The IGF1 receptor is a tyrosine-kinase receptor which induces cellular signal transduction chains by adding phosphate groups or "phosphorylating" specific proteins within the cell. Activation of the PI3K/AKT
> http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?5088-Kinase-Inhibition-%96-A-Magic-Bulletkinases
> ...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

so your basicly using it for the wrong reason if you expect it to cause muscle growth, what benifts do you get form it then mate is it still werth taking as a combo with other peps?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i don't use it for the reasons above it is clear that it might help with healing injuries but you get no exercise induced muscle growth from it plus this below i found again on Dats site explains why some see fat loss whilst others don't...



> IGF-1 and Lipolysis
> 
> In healthy humans IGF-1 administration reduces both GH, which stimulates, and insulin, which inhibits lipolysis. Which one wins? There is a reduction in lipolysis in healthy subjects administered IGF-1 which appears to occur because of a reduction in GH-induced lipolysis, which exerts a greater effect than insulin.
> 
> ...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

as it may help healing injuries do you think its fair to say it may help reduce them accuring aswell, ie if minor injuries go un noticed if taking igf1 they should heal quicker and not blow up into something bigger. sort of like an injury prevention ped?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

after reading these two post above you really have to ask yourself what is the reason i am using any type of synthetic IGF-1 be that LR3 or Des?? maybe its because everyone else is?? and following what others do blindly is easier than working out what is it that it is giving you?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stone14 said:


> as it may help healing injuries do you think its fair to say it may help reduce them accuring aswell, ie if minor injuries go un noticed if taking igf1 they should heal quicker and not blow up into something bigger. sort of like an injury prevention ped?


it may do i really cannot say but when you read the above, if you are not GH deficient then it will hinder fat loss and actually lower GH output naturally? and natty IGF-1 so i would not use it at all......

i do think many mistake the PUMP feeling as growth but this is a side effect which will go once the drug has been stopped


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> after reading these two post above you really have to ask yourself what is the reason i am using any type of synthetic IGF-1 be that LR3 or Des?? maybe its because everyone else is?? and following what others do blindly is easier than working out what is it that it is giving you?


100% on this ...As do most guys use peptides for the wrong reasons

Injuries Lr3 is good as a anti inflammatory


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

thoon said:


> 100% on this ...As do most guys use peptides for the wrong reasons
> 
> *Injuries Lr3 is good as a anti inflammatory*


thymosin beta 4 is way way better for this.........


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## sorebuttman (Sep 20, 2009)

So what route would you go down if you, needed to have metal work our your upper arm and they cut through the Tricep to get to rods and screws

Peptide wise


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sorebuttman said:


> So what route would you go down if you, needed to have metal work our your upper arm and they cut through the Tricep to get to rods and screws
> 
> Peptide wise


GHRP-2/Mod GRF saturation dose 3 x day

+ 500mcg (1000mcg is better)/Mod GRF (250mcg) before bed (extended half life enables a second release of GH 4hrs after the first release)

+ pMGF high dose x 2 week (on nights not using IPAM)

+ Thymosin beta 4 (4-6mg Fri/Sat/Sun) for 4 weeks then 2mg per week for 6 weeks.....or continuous

this is what i would do......


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> thymosin beta 4 is way way better for this.........


Not got round to using it yet to be honest mate ..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

thoon said:


> Not got round to using it yet to be honest mate ..


i used it this year for my shoulder injury it certainly speeded up recovery whilst enabling me to train....


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Sounds like this is next on my list ,,


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> i have said many times of late that IGF-1LR3 does nothing for muscle growth and what many feel is growth is the "Pump" side effect that comes with its use, here is an abstract that clearly indicates that IGF1 plays *no role whatsoever in exercise-induced muscle growth*. It is involved in developmental muscle growth and tissue regeneration, which both involve different pathways. IGF1 has been shown useful for healing injured tissues.
> 
> this study i got from Dats site you can find it here Dats Forum
> 
> All credit goes to VX1 from that forum......


So, can you clarify this for me. Igf-1 lr3 does not build muscle from exercise.... Apparently from reading around the net using Nolva on cycle reduces igf-1 levels by around 23% which *apparently* hinders gains. If this is not the case with the above, is the whole Nolva hinders gains absolute BS?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Elvis82 said:


> So, can you clarify this for me. Igf-1 lr3 does not build muscle from exercise.... Apparently from reading around the net using Nolva on cycle reduces igf-1 levels by around 23% which *apparently* hinders gains. If this is not the case with the above, is the whole Nolva hinders gains absolute BS?


Synthetic IGF-1LR3 does not build muscle from exercise in adults....Correct

yes Nolvadex has been shown to lower IGF-1 levels by 25%. This is to do with its agonist effects in the liver it could hinder gains but not from a steroid cycle as AAS do not convert to IGF-1

although i am unsure why i am taking your question as you feel there is a connection between the two questions you have asked??


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> Synthetic IGF-1LR3 does not build muscle from exercise in adults....Correct
> 
> yes Nolvadex has been shown to lower IGF-1 levels by 25%. This is to do with its agonist effects in the liver it could hinder gains but not from a steroid cycle as AAS do not convert to IGF-1
> 
> although i am unsure why i am taking your question as you feel there is a connection between the two questions you have asked??


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> Synthetic IGF-1LR3 does not build muscle from exercise in adults....Correct
> 
> yes Nolvadex has been shown to lower IGF-1 levels by 25%. This is to do with its agonist effects in the liver it could hinder gains but not from a steroid cycle as AAS do not convert to IGF-1
> 
> although i am unsure why i am taking your question as you feel there is a connection between the two questions you have asked??


I had a feeling you might say that, I'm linking the 2 purely on the basis of whether igf-1 has anything to do with building muscle. I thought if igf1-lr3 wasn't important then how important would igf-1 be as aren't they pretty much the same? Lr3 being a slow releasing peptide?


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> Synthetic IGF-1LR3 does not build muscle from exercise in adults....Correct
> 
> yes Nolvadex has been shown to lower IGF-1 levels by 25%. This is to do with its agonist effects in the liver it could hinder gains but not from a steroid cycle as AAS do not convert to IGF-1
> 
> although i am unsure why i am taking your question as you feel there is a connection between the two questions you have asked??


Just to clarify paul, I'm currently using nolva to prevent any gyno from dbol. From everything I've read over the Internet I would be hindering my gains slightly but to me that's a small price to pay to prevent gyno. After reading the above article on igf-1 lr3 and its lack of use in muscle building I'm now confused as to the so called major importance of igf-1 and whether or not using nolva will affect my gains on aas. You said in your reply above nolva can reduce gains but not on aas, by this do you mean if I was to take nolva as a natty it could have an affect? And could you elaborate a bit more as to why taking nolva with aas will not affect gains? Thanks mate


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

you are mixing up two things......IGF-1LR3 is injected as you know and becomes systematic the way this acts in the body is totally different than naturally occurring IGF-1 which is converted in the Liver from GH release or injection (peptides/Synthetic) but also you have muscle IGF-1.....

IGF-1 naturally occurring works it is how the body functions but using a synthetic version which is what this thread is about does not use the same pathways in matured adults (not developing in growth so not a child) in developing muscle cells as IGF-1 one does.......

Nolvadex reduces IGF-1 by approx 25% so conversion to IGF-1 naturally is affected, now this will effect gains to a degree but it will not be noticeable in the big picture....

if you bring it down to the basics and look at the amount of weight/muscle it will effect is negligible you will cause more harm letting your estrogen levels run amok and get gyno than you will benefit from 25% more IGF-1 when the overall amount is small.......

now i have seen the study a long time ago and i cannot remember what the dose was they used or the finer details as these are important.......

concentrate on the more important things like food, rest and training than if your gains may be effected by using nolvadex......


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> you are mixing up two things......IGF-1LR3 is injected as you know and becomes systematic the way this acts in the body is totally different than naturally occurring IGF-1 which is converted in the Liver from GH release or injection (peptides/Synthetic) but also you have muscle IGF-1.....
> 
> IGF-1 naturally occurring works it is how the body functions but using a synthetic version which is what this thread is about does not use the same pathways in matured adults (not developing in growth so not a child) in developing muscle cells as IGF-1 one does.......
> 
> ...


I agree paul, I was getting the two mixed up and getting a bit confused. Thanks for clearing that up mate.


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## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> GHRP-2/Mod GRF saturation dose 3 x day
> 
> + 500mcg (1000mcg is better)/Mod GRF (250mcg) before bed (extended half life enables a second release of GH 4hrs after the first release)
> 
> ...


Paul,

What do you consider high dose mgf in this protocol? Also does it matter when you take it?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Big Ian said:


> Paul,
> 
> What do you consider high dose mgf in this protocol? Also does it matter when you take it?


it is 2mg twice a week, you would take it straight after training split 500mcg into 4 muscle groups (left shoulder/chest, right shoulder/chest) making sure you took no peptides or synthetic GH until the morning after (assuming training at 5pm ish)

it should say MGF not pMGF though.


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## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> it is 2mg twice a week, you would take it straight after training split 500mcg into 4 muscle groups (left shoulder/chest, right shoulder/chest) making sure you took no peptides or synthetic GH until the morning after (assuming training at 5pm ish)
> 
> it should say MGF not pMGF though.


Thanks paul. And this would be for injury repair? My main issues are with my forearms and knees. Where would you suggest pinning?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Big Ian said:


> Thanks paul. And this would be for injury repair? My main issues are with my forearms and knees. Where would you suggest pinning?


the whole protocol you quoted is for injury repair, but the MGF high dose use i mentioned above is for new muscle cell growth (i think i got confused when you asked the question buddy)


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## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> the whole protocol you quoted is for injury repair, but the MGF high dose use i mentioned above is for new muscle cell growth (i think i got confused when you asked the question buddy)


Thanks mate. So the high dose peg mgf would be better injury repair then? If so what dose and how would you use?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes due to its longevity (cleaving off the peg) 500-1000mcg is a dose i would use depending on the injury, one of the issues with pMGF is that many do not use a high enough dose


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## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> yes due to its longevity (cleaving off the peg) 500-1000mcg is a dose i would use depending on the injury, one of the issues with pMGF is that many do not use a high enough dose


Thanks bud. And coz its peglated does it not matter where or when its pinned?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Big Ian said:


> Thanks bud. And coz its peglated does it not matter where or when its pinned?


not really although micro dosing has been a success with some injuries in the area of the injury


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## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> not really although micro dosing has been a success with some injuries in the area of the injury


Thanks bud appreciate your help


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## 222 (Feb 7, 2014)

http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?59675-Very-good-I-found-on-IGF1-LR3-MUST-READ!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

222 said:


> http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?59675-Very-good-I-found-on-IGF1-LR3-MUST-READ!


this is old and very out of date (2011) synthetic IGF-1LR3 does not follow the needed and same pathways as Muscle IGF or Liver IGF that is naturally produced and needed for proliferation, the first post in this thread is a study that shows this......this what you have quoted is an opinion really based on what natural IGF does and it has been applied to synthetic......


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