# Need to clean bulk after cyclical ketogenic diet



## Tomwlsn99 (May 30, 2009)

I'll be finishing my CKD in a few weeks time. I'll start introducing carbs back slowly to hopefuly avoid putting the fat back on. What I need though is help coming up with a plan which will hopefuly enable me to gain muscle and gain very little fat.

How do I work out the number of calories I need to eat each day in order to do this?

When I have this figure is there a certain way in which it should be made up ....... I.e protein/carbs/fat (40/40/20) etc.

I understand that carbs really are only there to provide us with energy. Any more than what we need for energy will generaly go to fat storage. So is there an amount of carbs to stick to on a daily basis to reduce this risk (100g/200g)??


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

There's so many variables mate. Firstly, you have a much better idea than we do of how many cals and carbs you need to grow. That's because you know your body better than we do, you know how many cals you need to lose weight etc, so you can obv figure out how many cals you'll need to gain.

You should be able to bulk on a CKD mate, but you're gonna want to take in slightly more than 30g carbs a day so you're not in ketosis (as it's very catabolic), but your body is still using fat as it's primary fuel source. As long as cals are high you'll feel great on this.

If you don't want to do the high fat/ carb-up thing, then just up your cals to maintenance levels (by upping fats) for the first week and just add in 45g dextrose PWO on training days. Then you could add in 45g carbs for brekkie the next week etc. Loads of options - you could either go high fat/ low carb, high fat/ zero carb, mod carb/mod fat/ high protein etc etc. Just decide what you'd rather do.


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## Tomwlsn99 (May 30, 2009)

So how would you split it up if you wanted high protein/mod carb/mod fat....?

50/30/20.....?

I appreciate what your saying about me knowing my body etc so really I should be able to work out how much I need to eat in order to gain muscle. Is there a good place to start, like 500cal above maintenance? I'm currently 500 below maintenance.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

If you want a pro to use as inspiration mate, Evan Centopani (this is going back a year or two admittedly) when he won his pro card used a CKD to get into contest condition, and a 1:1:1 ratio diet at the peak of his off season. To make it simple, I'd say when you come to the end of your diet add in carbs at brekkie and PWO; say 45g in each meal as this is when your body really needs carbs. That's an increase of 360 cals right there (90g carbs). So you could add say 75g oats to brekkie and 45g dextrose PWO. Try that for a week or two. You probs won't gain from it, but it's always better to slowly ease into things and eventually peak at a certain off season diet and training regime. The majority of pros spend months transitioning from contest dieting/ training to full off season training.

So I suggest you add small amount of carbs to each meal until you're at a 1:1:1 ratio. For example, 300/300/150 c/p/f. That's not what I'll be doing when I finish my diet, but that's what you can do it you like. I personally love carbing up, so I'll probs still follow a CKD but with double the fat during the week. I might add in small amounts of dextrose PWO to keep me anabolic and out of ketosis too.


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## Tomwlsn99 (May 30, 2009)

Nice one Al mate. I'll give what you say a go when I come off the CKD. Alot of maths involved but I'll get there lol


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