# Best way to lose weight (maintaining muscle not necessary)



## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

I haven't posted on here in a while. Since moving out, my diets been pretty horrible. Whereas before I was trying to build muslce, whilst losing weight. I'm definitely fat now and I have to lose the weight.

Money's tight so I can't go on all protein/no carb diets (at least for now). I've quit my gym membership because although a lot of advice online is conflicting, they all seem to aggree that it isn't necessary to go the gym to cut.

I've bough a bog-standard exercise bike and an all in one pull up, dip, push up, crunch machine. Will this be sufficient?

Also...any diet tips based on a £25 per week budget for food?


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## nick-h (Nov 17, 2011)

your gonna need to work out your cals to eat under your maintenance, there is no black magic to losing weight eat less move more


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

a combination of fasted cardio, intermittent fasting and heavy lifting works best for me

e.g - jog before work.

first meal at lunch time.

train afterwork - low volume, heavy compound lifting.

then big meal after gym


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Whats your weight?

Whats your fat?

How old?

How tall?

What do you work as? Student?

People say it isnt necessary to go to the gym to cut? That all depends what you want to be left with once youve finished cutting...... a skinny runt with saggy skin, or a toned male with a 6 pack ? :thumb:

Your finances seem to be a slight prob, and I can see why youve cancelled your gym to increase finances. Eating healthty and below maintenance for £25 isnt bad at all. Just avoid the supermarkets, go to a local fruit and veg shop as they are usually cheaper and their produce lasts longer. Avoid pre made foods - eg Sliced melon ready to eat, get a melon, cut it, tupperware it.

Go to costco, macro and buy a wod of chicken breast at £4 per kilo, compared to £8 per kilo in tesco.

Stop drinking pop. Drink more water, if you need flavour, Lemon squash is about as awesome as it gets 

What do you intend to do on the excersize bike and how often? or will it be a clothes horse for the evening?

You dont train and are overweight, can you do pullups / dips? Not being insulting, just working out whether youll use the kit you bought.


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

First, work out your TDEE. 20 hr intermittent fasts make a 1000 calorie deficit pretty easy to deal with.

Mathematically then a 1000 cal defecit ed = 2 lb per week fat loss, which is fast enough for me.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

ki3rz said:


> 20 hr intermittent fasts make a 1000 calorie deficit pretty easy to deal with.
> 
> mathematically then a 1000 cal defecit ed = 2 lb per week fat loss, which is fast enough for me.


1k cal defecit per day, id be chewing my arm off by lunch time  500 per day works for me, when you combine the cals burned from training the weight flies off. Dont forget your quite lean in your pics, the op states hes carrying some timber, so I would imagine a change and suddenly eating right and a bit of excersize and he will loose several pounds per week to start off with


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Losing weight without making any attempt to preserve muscle tends to lead to yo-yo dieting. Most people that take this approach just end up as either skeletons or blobs. Usually the latter.


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## nick-h (Nov 17, 2011)

http://www.fitnessfrog.com/calculators/tdee-calculator.html


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> 1k cal defecit per day, id be chewing my arm off by lunch time  500 per day works for me, when you combine the cals burned from training the weight flies off. Dont forget your quite lean in your pics, the op states hes carrying some timber, so I would imagine a change and suddenly eating right and a bit of excersize and he will loose several pounds per week to start off with


I have reefed days regular. A 1000 cal deficit for me works out at 1800, so it's not that bad mate.

But OP you need to work out your maintenance level, and eat less than that. There's loads of bodyweight exercises you can do to retain as much muscle as you can.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Whats your weight?
> 
> Whats your fat?
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply, I was doing something.

I'm vastly overweight: 110 kg.

I'm 17.

I'm 177 cm.

I'm a full time college student.

I drink a lot of diet coke and flavored water which has few calories. So I'm not convinced my extra caloric intake comes from drinks. Although it'd probably be a good idea to drink more water. I've been using the exercise bike for half an hour daily for the 2 weeks I've gotten it. I probably should step it up though.

I haven't yet set up the dip/pull up thing (It arrived on Saturday). I won't mind using it. Assuming I have a suitable doorway, I know how to build up from one chin up to many, as I've done it before.

But as said, strength training isn't really what I wanted to achieve. I'd always watched my diet but then an older friend of mine encouraged me to eat what I wanted. After moving out, I didn't go much to gym (poor excuse: self consciousness) leading to me gaining around 20+kg in a yr as I continued to eat what I wanted..


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

In this case, you'd suggest I return to the gym. Because there's no way purchasing the weights needed to do compound lifting would be practical.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

ki3rz said:


> First, work out your TDEE. 20 hr intermittent fasts make a 1000 calorie deficit pretty easy to deal with.
> 
> Mathematically then a 1000 cal defecit ed = 2 lb per week fat loss, which is fast enough for me.


That shouldn't be a problem, I guess. I skip a lot of meals then snack on high cal snacks these days.

I'd just need to switch the high cal snacks to low cal meals.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Ian_Montrose said:


> Losing weight without making any attempt to preserve muscle tends to lead to yo-yo dieting. Most people that take this approach just end up as either skeletons or blobs. Usually the latter.


When you say yo-yo do u mean cycling between eating loads and eating little?


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

Rubes said:


> That shouldn't be a problem, I guess. I skip a lot of meals then snack on high cal snacks these days.
> 
> I'd just need to switch the high cal snacks to low cal meals.


Also, low cal meals can end up being more satisfying than high cal snacks due to more fibre. I'm 17 and in college full time as well btw, works very nicely with my college days as I don't have to worry about preparing meals to take in every day.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

So Just to confirm....are you saying that the calorie deficit is more important than cardio?


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Rubes said:


> When you say yo-yo do u mean cycling between eating loads and eating little?


Kind of, but it's more about how the bodies of poorly educated dieters tend to fluctuate.

Think of it in these simple terms.

The rate at which you expend energy, or burn calories, is highly dependent on how much lean tissue (muscle) you have. If you lose weight without making any attempt to preserve muscle you lose both fat and lean tissue. The loss of lean tissue reduces your base metabolic rate and also the amount of energy you expend when exercising.

So, you reduce cals/up cardio and lose both muscle and fat. You eventually return to normal intake levels and your body starts to rebuild its fat reserves. Before you know it, you look worse than you did before the first diet. So you go at it again and strip off even more lean muscle. Repeat ad nauseum until either losing all hope or changing tactics.

There are other contributing factors, such as the way the body responds to starvation but the main point to take is that if you focus solely on losing weight, rather than on losing fat, you will end up not being a very happy bunny.

If you can't afford to go to a gym then look at options that don't require expensive equipment - dips, chins etc. You don't need to train like you are prepping for Britain's strongest Man - just put regular weighted stress on your major muscle groups.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Ian_Montrose said:


> Kind of, but it's more about how the bodies of poorly educated dieters tend to fluctuate.
> 
> Think of it in these simple terms.
> 
> ...


I see. That makes a lot of sense. I thought that the only reason why members on here would talk about maintaining muscle whilst losing fat was due to their bodybuilding goals. I didn't realise that that advice would be applicable to someone like myself.

I can afford to go to the gym but I wasn't that fit and I was only doing cardio so it seemed to make more sense to get a bike, build my fitness and jog as well as oppposed to paying the £25 a month.

I guess. I could do resistance exercises at home and the aforementioned exersize bike and jogging with a view to returning to the gym once my strength reaches a certain level.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Lifting weights can burn just as many calories as using a treadmill / cycling machine..... so in 40 mins on a treadmill, vs 40 mins lifting. The calories burned "can" be the same, just the end result is whats left after all the fats gone. Obviously lifting will leave behind a much better shape


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

If you can't afford the gym membership I was going to say look at calisthenics on YouTube or something. But if it's confidence issues, I doubt you'd be up for doing that either..


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Or, download / youtube the insanity workout, thatll strip some fat off yo a$$


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Rubes said:


> So Just to confirm....are you saying that the calorie deficit is more important than cardio?


Most definitely. IIRC you need to burn around 3500 cals to lose one pound of body weight, if you're working hard that's probably about 5 hours on your bike. If you combine the calorie deficit with the cardio, then you're onto a winner!


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

ki3rz said:


> If you can't afford the gym membership I was going to say look at calisthenics on YouTube or something. But if it's confidence issues, I doubt you'd be up for doing that either..


Well most calisthenics exersizes can be done at home/park so confidence won't be an issue.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

ki3rz said:


> If you can't afford the gym membership I was going to say look at calisthenics on YouTube or something. But if it's confidence issues, I doubt you'd be up for doing that either..


Well most calisthenics exersizes can be done at home/park so confidence won't be an issue.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Or, download / youtube the insanity workout, thatll strip some fat off yo a$$


I've heard good things about that and the p90x programme. But then u hear good things about everything so I'm always a little skeptical. I'll see if I can get Insanity cheaply (freely) then


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

Rubes said:


> Well most calisthenics exersizes can be done at home/park so confidence won't be an issue.


that's an option then :thumbup1:


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

eat less move more, when muscle maintenance isn't a concern losing weight is extremely easy


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Lew1s said:


> eat less move more, when muscle maintenance isn't a concern losing weight is extremely easy


Thanks. Though...from what @ian said, it'd be foolish to not try to conserve my muscle tissue as losing it would inhibit my metabolism and cause me to seriously plateau. Then I'd have to deficit somemore leading o more muscle loss... The end product being pretty undesirable.


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## nick-h (Nov 17, 2011)

your TDEE is about 3100 with light exercise so take 500 off that 2600 cals and you will lose weight.

lay of the sugar and ****ty carbs , keep protein high and some good fats.

do your cardio one day, body weight exercises another day.

doing your cardio fasted will be an advantage.

you can do enough body weight exercises to help maintain muscle mass at home, dips, push ups, squats, leg raises , do some curls with the kitchen table if you have to! get a mate on your back and do some sqauts!!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Ok, so youve had 26 hrs 

What did you eat today so far? and what excersize have ya done


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

nick-h said:


> your TDEE is about 3100 with light exercise so take 500 off that 2600 cals and you will lose weight.
> 
> lay of the sugar and ****ty carbs , keep protein high and some good fats.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I was thinking of investing in a healthy weight like 20kg to use (accompanied by a DVD).


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Ok, so youve had 26 hrs
> 
> What did you eat today so far? and what excersize have ya done


Today:

I've had 3 wheatabix bars with a tea spoon of sugar along with soya milk (My typical breakfast)

The only exercise I've done today so far today is some push ups.


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## bobbydrake (Nov 19, 2012)

Weight lifting will definately help with losing fat. Low(ish) carb eating and trying to build muscle will strip the fat off. The more muscle you have the better as your body will use more calories up maintaining the muscle. Don't eat low fat food as usually the healthy fats are taken out and replaced with sugar (which your body will store as fat).


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Try to keep off the sugar mate


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## nick-h (Nov 17, 2011)

any reason for the soy milk as well?

kettle bell might be a good investment


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

nick-h said:


> any reason for the soy milk as well?
> 
> kettle bell might be a good investment


Well I usually have some sort of milk with wheatabix as it's way too dry on it's own (think that's the norm?). As to why soya as opposed to dairy, I'm used to the taste. I was told some yrs ago by a doctor to stay off the dairy. Although that advice is no longer applicable, as said: I'm used to it.


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## nick-h (Nov 17, 2011)

just wondering if it's a lactose thing, there is a few studies out there which say soy increases estrogen in males. which isn't a good thing


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Nope. NOthing to do with lactose intolerance.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

I've decided I'll just rejoin the gym. The bike will still be a good investment as I can use it on busy skl terms but if I rejoing, I'll be able to do weight lifting pretty easily.

Also...with the confidence thing, as it's the summer hols I'll be able to go when it's really quiet.

I can finally start Stronglifts 5x5 which was recommended to me, many moons ago without being embarrassed about starting with just a bar.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Ok so we are 48 hrs in, list your meals from yesterday mate


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

AIDS?


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Ok so we are 48 hrs in, list your meals from yesterday mate


As said, for breakfast I had wheatabix + soy milk with a teaspoon of sugar.

For lunch I ended up having a sweet and sour chicken breast and soom stir fried noodles.

Later that day, I had 100g of Cashew nuts.

To supliment any hunger urges I drank alot. I had a 2litre zero Sprite and 1 litre flavored water (1cal).


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

MattGriff said:


> AIDS?


I'm not sure whether this is a joke based on the fact that people afflicted with AIDS, lose weight quickly or whether you actually mean some type of workout I've not heard off.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Rubes said:


> I'm not sure whether this is a joke based on the fact that people afflicted with AIDS, lose weight quickly or whether you actually mean some type of workout I've not heard off.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA REPS


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Rubes said:


> I'm not sure whether this is a joke based on the fact that people afflicted with AIDS, lose weight quickly or whether you actually mean some type of workout I've not heard off.


Advanced Interval Dissipation System


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA REPS


Thanks!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Rubes said:


> As said, for breakfast I had wheatabix + soy milk with a teaspoon of sugar.
> 
> For lunch I ended up having a sweet and sour chicken breast and soom stir fried noodles.
> 
> ...


HOw many weetabix? do you really need the sugar?

Sweet n sour is full of sugar mate

What was your evening meal? or did you have the cashews?

Do you really need 3 litres of pop per day? can you drink lemon squash?

Did you train? walk anywhere? even a 20 min walk to the shops?


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

I didn't think a teaspoon made that much difference. I had 4 bars.

I didn't realise there was much sugar in the sweet and sour.

I just had the cashews as I'd already eaten alot for lunch. It sounds a lot (3l of pop) but it was all sugar free. And next to no cals, I checked!

I did the usual 30 minutes of bike. I walked a very short distance: about a mile. I did some pushups and dips.

*Today*

Skipped breakfast.

Lunch: a couple croissants.

Snacks: 200g of Cashew nuts and 2 bananas.

Evening meal: chicken breast, broccoli and carrots along with some chopped tomatoes.

Drinks: 1l of flavoured water. 1 cal.

Exersize: Pushups, dips, situps, crunches.

I'll also use my bike later on. Possibly 1hr to compensate for the croissants.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Today was a lot better 

Avoid skipping breakfast, it kick starts ya metabolism and helps loose weight

Why not make a log? in 3 months time it will remind you how far youve come


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Madoxx said:


> Avoid skipping breakfast, it kick starts ya metabolism and helps loose weight


you sure?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> I didn't think a teaspoon made that much difference. I had 4 bars.
> 
> I didn't realise there was much sugar in the sweet and sour.
> 
> ...


highlighted the bad bits from today, better diets are posted in the stickies at the top of the loosing weight section mate.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Rubes said:


> I haven't posted on here in a while. Since moving out, my diets been pretty horrible. Whereas before I was trying to build muslce, whilst losing weight. I'm definitely fat now and I have to lose the weight.
> 
> Money's tight so I can't go on all protein/no carb diets (at least for now). I've quit my gym membership because although a lot of advice online is conflicting, they all seem to aggree that it isn't necessary to go the gym to cut.
> 
> ...


More to the point, why are you wearing a pokemon t shirt?


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## M_at (May 2, 2009)

Look is no one going to give this guy the fast method?

This video will give you the quicket way to a decent amount of weight loss

http://www.amazon.co.uk/127-Hours-DVD-James-Franco/dp/B004I5C3V2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373488811&sr=8-1&keywords=127+hours


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> highlighted the bad bits from today, better diets are posted in the stickies at the top of the loosing weight section mate.


Ah. I naiively thought that all fruit and nuts would be good. I've skim read the "timed carbs sticky". It seems faily reasonable to achieve in my budget. I could eat cheaper foods like pasta on "carp-up" days to balance out the cost as high protein foods is steep.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

saxondale said:


> you sure?


http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/fitness/weight-loss/fact-or-fiction-eating-breakfast-can-help-you-lose-weight.html

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/lose-weight-eat-breakfast

http://www.eatingwell.com/nutrition_health/nutrition_news_information/healthy_breakfast_foods_for_weight_loss

http://www.weightloss.com.au/articles/healthy-diets/breakfast-and-weight-loss.html


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> More to the point, why are you wearing a pokemon t shirt?


I recently bought a few (humorously) designed t-shirts to draw onlookers attention away from fat and to the design(s).


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

M_at said:


> Look is no one going to give this guy the fast method?
> 
> This video will give you the quicket way to a decent amount of weight loss
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/127-Hours-DVD-James-Franco/dp/B004I5C3V2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373488811&sr=8-1&keywords=127+hours


Haha. I've never watched the film but I suppose I could benefit from the determination that guy had to cut his own hand off. Ouch!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Madoxx said:


> http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/fitness/weight-loss/fact-or-fiction-eating-breakfast-can-help-you-lose-weight.html
> 
> http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/lose-weight-eat-breakfast
> 
> ...


 @Pscarbs claimed that not eating keeps fat burning going for an extra 2 hours - you claim eating starts the process.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> highlighted the bad bits from today, better diets are posted in the stickies at the top of the loosing weight section mate.


Is the bike highlighted because exercise should be earlier in the day?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Ah. I naiively thought that all fruit and nuts would be good. I've skim read the "timed carbs sticky". It seems faily reasonable to achieve in my budget. I could eat cheaper foods like pasta on "carp-up" days to balance out the cost as high protein foods is steep.


forget all that shizzle - work out your daily calorie requirement and eat less - that really is all there is to it.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Is the bike highlighted because exercise should be earlier in the day?


it`s highlighted because you say your going to do it later - which means you know your not actually going to bother


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Madoxx said:


> Today was a lot better
> 
> Avoid skipping breakfast, it kick starts ya metabolism and helps loose weight
> 
> Why not make a log? in 3 months time it will remind you how far youve come


no it does not, your metabolism is not stopped why do people keep thinking the metabolism stops over night???? you wake in a natural fat burning state if your goal is to lose fat then delaying eating a carb rich breakfast will stop this natural fat burning state as when insulin is released fat burning stops.

this may not be everyones goal but it does help with fat burning.....

and once again your metabolism does not stop nor does it magically raise to a high level when you eat the exception to this is if you are in a calories deficit state for a good time and breakfast is more like a very high carb refeed thus Leptin is raised and the brain raises metabolism but this is not something that happens just by not eating overnight.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> forget all that shizzle - work out your daily calorie requirement and eat less - that really is all there is to it.


Well I've rejoined myfitness pal. It says I should be eating 1,390 cals for my goal.

I'm about to log in todays food and exercize to see how I've done.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> no it does not, your metabolism is not stopped why do people keep thinking the metabolism stops over night???? you wake in a natural fat burning state if your goal is to lose fat then delaying eating a carb rich breakfast will stop this natural fat burning state as when insulin is released fat burning stops.
> 
> this may not be everyones goal but it does help with fat burning.....
> 
> and once again your metabolism does not stop nor does it magically raise to a high level when you eat the exception to this is if you are in a calories deficit state for a good time and breakfast is more like a very high carb refeed thus Leptin is raised and the brain raises metabolism but this is not something that happens just by not eating overnight.


I'm a little confused @Pscarb!

You said that "delaying eating a carb rich breakfast will stop this natural fat burning state as when insulin is released fat burning stops". But isn't insulin released in response to carb consumption? So I'm not sure how delaying a carby breakfast would stop the fat burning state if it's insulin that makes it stop. Sorry. :S


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Rubes said:


> I'm a little confused @Pscarb!
> 
> You said that "delaying eating a carb rich breakfast will stop this natural fat burning state as when insulin is released fat burning stops". But isn't insulin released in response to carb consumption? So I'm not sure how delaying a carby breakfast would stop the fat burning state if it's insulin that makes it stop. Sorry. :S


i forgot to add a "as this will stop"

when the body releases insulin fat burning is stopped so by NOT eating a carb rich breakfast straight after you wake you take advantage of the naturally occurring fat burning state you wake in....

it does not have to be 2hrs it could be longer it could be an hour i find 2 hours is a good length of time.....


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> i forgot to add a "as this will stop"
> 
> when the body releases insulin fat burning is stopped so by NOT eating a carb rich breakfast straight after you wake you take advantage of the naturally occurring fat burning state you wake in....
> 
> it does not have to be 2hrs it could be longer it could be an hour i find 2 hours is a good length of time.....


Oh. I see. Thanks


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Well. I'm just going my bike now. Thanks for the help so far everyone. Can't believe I forgot about myfitnesspal. It's a great resource. I might cancel a couple of my travel plans, then this summer to apropraite some protein as eating 1g per pound of my current bodyweight (240!) would be too expensive. Besides, i'm sure that the other stuff from the food that I'd need to eat would push my cals above the 1390.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Clearly I was wrong @Pscarb funny how much crap info is out there on the web, for example;

"This isn't a myth. Those who eat breakfast lose more weight than those who skip breakfast. Why? Because your metabolism slows down when you sleep and doesn't rev up again until you eat.

Source - Barbara Rolls, Ph.D., Professor of Nutrition, Penn State University"

cheers for the heads up


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Rubes said:


> I might cancel a couple of my travel plans, then this summer to apropraite some protein as eating 1g per pound of my current bodyweight (240!) would be too expensive.


Carefull there mate, you may have got your maths wrong, who told you 1g per lb of body weight? I really doubt you'll need 240g of protein per day if you dont have the muscle mass to support / need it. Your 5 ft 8 and "vastly overweight" (Your words)


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

calorie deficit + HIIT


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Madoxx said:


> Clearly I was wrong @Pscarb funny how much crap info is out there on the web, for example;
> 
> "This isn't a myth. Those who eat breakfast lose more weight than those who skip breakfast. Why? Because your metabolism slows down when you sleep and doesn't rev up again until you eat.
> 
> ...


has Barbera Rolls Ph.d. ever come 6th in a provincial bodybuilding competition? I think not!


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Carefull there mate, you may have got your maths wrong, who told you 1g per lb of body weight? I really doubt you'll need 240g of protein per day if you dont have the muscle mass to support / need it. Your 5 ft 8 and "vastly overweight" (Your words)


5 ft 9,10*. I got that advice from the "How to set up a generic fat loss diet" Sticky. Plus I remember it from various mags/articles I've read in the past.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

I am a little puzzled as to what my weight goal should be though. Is there a formula to work this out? Even when I was relatively lean, my BMI was still not in the normal zone due to my body type (I think). Additionally, I'm meant to be working on maintaining/building my muscle which suggests that my weight may not be the best indicator of progress.

So to re-clarify, What's the best type of goal for me to set?

To help give you a better understanding of how I look, I can upload some pics if that helps!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

saxondale said:


> has Barbera Rolls Ph.d. ever come 6th in a provincial bodybuilding competition? I think not!


Nono, I wasn't trying to argue, i was just saying that if someone in the field can get it wrong then I got no chance


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Rubes said:


> I am a little puzzled as to what my weight goal should be though. Is there a formula to work this out? Even when I was relatively lean, my BMI was still not in the normal zone due to my body type (I think). Additionally, I'm meant to be working on maintaining/building my muscle which suggests that my weight may not be the best indicator of progress.
> 
> So to re-clarify, What's the best type of goal for me to set?
> 
> To help give you a better understanding of how I look, I can upload some pics if that helps!


Hi Rubes

I think the first goal you should set is to continue developing your understanding of nutrition and exercise and what works for you. As has already been demonstrated just in this short thread, there are a multitude of different points of view and no single strategy that everyone agrees on. Read, talk, learn but most of all track what you do and how your body responds. Don't assume that everything you currently think of as accepted wisdom is valid. For example, the classic low-fat approach to weight loss is not as effective as the majority of the population think it is. Spend any spare time reading the various sub-forums on here and don't be afraid to post when something doesn't make sense to you. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Keep track of your weight but don't let that be your primary focus. The mirror is your best judge when it comes to fat loss. Strength is a good marker when it comes to muscle retention/growth. Keep notes (weight, body measurements, exercise performance, food intake) but don't get too analytic about it just yet - physical self-improvement is a marathon not a sprint.

Most of all, and this sounds corny, but don't let it get you down. An unhappy mind leads to an unhealthy body. So focus on your successes and put any set-backs down to experience and lessons learned. You will get to where you want to be as long as you keep moving forward, even if the steps are only small.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Ian_Montrose said:


> Hi Rubes
> 
> I think the first goal you should set is to continue developing your understanding of nutrition and exercise and what works for you. As has already been demonstrated just in this short thread, there are a multitude of different points of view and no single strategy that everyone agrees on. Read, talk, learn but most of all track what you do and how your body responds. Don't assume that everything you currently think of as accepted wisdom is valid. For example, the classic low-fat approach to weight loss is not as effective as the majority of the population think it is. Spend any spare time reading the various sub-forums on here and don't be afraid to post when something doesn't make sense to you. There is no such thing as a stupid question.
> 
> ...


Thanks. In addition to monitering my food on myfitnesspal, I'll try to keep a progress diary. I'll record measurements weekly and weekly calories consumed and burnt.

With regards to today, I'd roasted a chicken last night so I ate a portion of that with a wrap. To my horror, a few minutes ago, I discovered that that wrap had 35g of carbs!

I'm currently evening a few sausages. I'm going to have that with 3 scrambled eggs for my lunch.

As I've already had so many carbs for the day, I'll avoid rice/pasta/potatoes so I'll go for something like The aforementioned raosted chicken (well some of it) with some vegetables.

*Exercize*

I went on a 2.5 mile walk this morning and will do the usual bike later.

I don't restart the gym till the 1st of August so I think I'll add skipping to my regime as I'm loathe to try jogging untill my fitness levels are up. I'd look idiotic jogging for a short distance then heavily panting whilst walking


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Well my net calorie consumption (taking into account the exercise) today was 671 cals! That's good I guess. Though...it does seem a tad low.

I'll go ahead and plan what I'm eating tomorrow now!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Well my net calorie consumption (taking into account the exercise) today was 671 cals! That's good I guess. Though...it does seem a tad low.
> 
> I'll go ahead and plan what I'm eating tomorrow now!


list your food up fella.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> list your food up fella.


Sure:


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Sure:
> View attachment 128534


now what did you really eat?

no-one eats just 1/4 of a chicken breast.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> now what did you really eat?
> 
> no-one eats just 1/4 of a chicken breast.


That. I roasted a chicken last night and put the meat in a container. I've no idea what part of the meat I ate, but it was about a 1/4 of a breast.. And as I awoke late, I had more of a brunch. So I ate the 1/4breast whilst the omlete (egg and pepper) was cooking  .


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> That. I roasted a chicken last night and put the meat in a container. I've no idea what part of the meat I ate, but it was about a 1/4 of a breast.. And as I awoke late, I had more of a brunch. So I ate the 1/4breast whilst the omlete (egg and pepper) was cooking  .


your gone to have to be more aware of what your eating than that mate.

you`ve really only eaten one meal IMO


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> your gone to have to be more aware of what your eating than that mate.
> 
> you`ve really only eaten one meal IMO


I'd think the ratio was good in the end! Carb relatively low. Fat and protein up!

I forgot to include the wrap I ate  .


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Well today was better, I feel.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Well today was better, I feel.
> 
> View attachment 128739


thats better - my dinner yesterday

View attachment 128740


snap


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> thats better - my dinner yesterday
> 
> View attachment 128740
> 
> ...


Ah  . Isn't that a large portion size?

I cooked 1k of mince. Seasoned it then added a tin of chopped tomatoes. It's now in a container so I'll freeze some and have the rest over the next couple days. I'll grab some veggies when I'm in Manc city centre too tomorrow so I consume less rice!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Ah  . Isn't that a large portion size?
> 
> I cooked 1k of mince. Seasoned it then added a tin of chopped tomatoes. It's now in a container so I'll freeze some and have the rest over the next couple days. I'll grab some veggies when I'm in Manc city centre too tomorrow so I consume less rice!


always try and cook two days food at a time - easier that way.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

saxondale said:


> thats better - my dinner yesterday
> 
> View attachment 128740
> 
> ...


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> ...


?

Edit: just seen the writing!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Madoxx said:


> I love meatballs, bllx to cooking on a lecky stove tho


electric hob, rented house - can`t wait to get out of here.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> electric hob, rented house - can`t wait to get out of here.


Ah. Good luck with the move when you do! @saxondale !


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

You really only have 2 weetabix and 100g milk?

4 sausage, chicken and 1/4 tin of beans for dinner? No toast?

I like your tea, good, 13% of tomato tin?

Wheres teh veg mate? really filling, really good for you and really low in cals.

What about drinks?


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> You really only have 2 weetabix and 100g milk?
> 
> 4 sausage, chicken and 1/4 tin of beans for dinner? No toast?
> 
> ...


Yes. I was pretty tired after b'fast though, esp after the walk. I kept remarking to my grandma (whose house I walked to) that I was hungry. Thankfully she kept me from buying something stupid to eat outside. Tomorrow I'll try to have a bigger b'kfast and keep the smaller meal for lunch  .

No toast. I ran out of bread and it seemed foolish to get more as I'm trying to keep a low carb to fat/protein ratio.

Well I one tin of chopped tomatoes go in with the 1kg of mince. As I had 17% of the mince. It seemed safe to assume that I had a similar % of the can of tomatoes. I wasn't sure how else to work it! I made sure that the concentration of tomato to mince was pretty even in the container!

For drinks. I had 1.25l of diet coke, 500ml of pepsi max and a standard bottle of flavored water (0cals also so volume shouldn't matter).

I've really been tempted to consume something hence the amount I've been drinking. After logging my food, I also had 6 cashew nuts.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> For drinks. I had 1.25l of diet coke, 500ml of pepsi max and a standard bottle of flavored water (0cals also so volume shouldn't matter).
> 
> I've really been tempted to consume something hence the amount I've been drinking. After logging my food, I also had 6 cashew nuts.


no more pop.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> no more pop.


Silly Q, why? I thought it's only negative was the amount of cals. Take that away with the sugar free version then...


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Rubes said:


> Silly Q, why? I thought it's only negative was the amount of cals. Take that away with the sugar free version then...


because you`re not 6 years old.

I would have to get hold of a bottle to see what craps inside it.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

saxondale said:


> because you`re not 6 years old.
> 
> I would have to get hold of a bottle to see what craps inside it.


Lol. Well I'll see how drinking water goes tomorrow!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

How did yesterday go, did you avoid the pop? Did you train? How about diet?


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> How did yesterday go, did you avoid the pop? Did you train? How about diet?


I only had 500ml of pop which is progress. Diet wasn't so good. See below:



I didn't really train. (I was quite tired) but I intend to today [i've already started].

I've a summer skl this week coming (monday to Firday) in London so I'll only able to somewhat controll my diet and exercise. As I'll eat what's given and I need to to stay within premises but I can do calisthenics style things at home.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

No offence mate, but your diet is ****........ and your lazy...........

You didnt train, cos your tired, im not suprised your tired looking at that diet. Theres hardly any proper nutrition, Its the weekend and your a student and all you managed was 20 mins dog walking

Yeah you maybe eating 1700 cals, and class yourself as a defecit, but it really is ****......

In a whole day, you had 5 sausages for breakfast, some nuts for lunch and tomatoes for evening meal. Your pop took up over 20% of your daily calories. If you really really have to have pop, buy coke zero, its pretty much the best pop when on diet, but again its full of other crap.

Your diet is mainly fat, low protein and low carbs.

Even the sausages you eat are [email protected], richmond are just poor quality.

Do you eat salad?, fruit? Do you eat veg? How about chicken? Do you like oats? Theres a lot more options at 1700 calories that will give you loads more energy, will keep your belly full, and make you loose weight faster

Im cutting at the moment, im in the gym 8-10 times per week, I have a full time job, a wife and 4 kids to look after. I still manage to get in at least 6 nutritious meals per day and have am loosing weight well.

If this is your discipline level on the first week, your diet will last you about 4 years  train hard, diet hard, get the results


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> No offence mate, but your diet is ****........ and your lazy...........
> 
> You didnt train, cos your tired, im not suprised your tired looking at that diet. Theres hardly any proper nutrition, Its the weekend and your a student and all you managed was 20 mins dog walking
> 
> ...


You say that but I've roughly kept to the calorie count so far. I've been cooking. I've walked (I never do), bike etc...

Prior to this, I'd taxi everywhere...I'd buy many takeaways, eat a lot of sweety scacks etc... I've avoided the temptation and eaten what I considered to be reasonable meals. I'll see what happens when I purchase food next week Saturday as I'll have more money then.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah you are on track for calories.

Im not saying you need to do 4 hrs of cardio either....

If you felt light headed its usually cos your fats are too high and ou body has run out of carbs and is switching to Fat burning mode. Pop isnt the answer, eat a banana, that has sugar too, good sugar

Your skint, dint realise that, the joys of being a student.

Im not saying go to the gym 8-10 times a week. What I am saying is that eating all that crap and then a simple 20 min walk doesnt show much willing in terms of diet.

Lets compare diets shall we, heres what I just made you in 5 mins;

*Yours:*

Breaky: 5 sausages

Dinner: 100g Nuts

Evening Meal: Mince and tinned tomatoes

Drinks: Rubicon

Total calories 1795, 74g protein, 117g fat, 78g carbs

*Mine*:

Breaky: Omelette, 6 eggs (3W), with 2 piece of bacon and 30g mushrooms

Snack: Apple, 30g mix of nuts, almonds, macadamias, cashews

Dinner: Tin Tuna, mayo, cherry tomatoes, 100g basmatti rice, cucumber, pepper, lettuce

Afternoon snack: 200g Honeydew melon

Evening Meal: Sirloin steak, cabbage, green beans, brocolo, sweet potato, bisto gravy on top

Bed time snack: Celery split and loaded with 30g peanut butter

Drinks: 1 pint of Coke zero with lunch, and another at tea time

Total calories 1780, 136g Protein, 75g Fat, 116g Carbs

Now I know which Diet would make me happier throughout the day and keep my belly full. The extra protein will keep any muscle you have, the extra carbs will help avoid going dizzy and all my fats are good fats, not much saturated


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Given up ?


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Given up ?


No! I'm just in the summer school, as mentioned. I'm not really able to weigh portions sizes/control what I'm eating that much but I'm doing best as I can. And it's still a lot less that what I was consuming before! I've been doing calisthenics style stuff in my dormroom and I've introduced squatting into my routine.

Pullups won't be an option untill I rejoin the gym as my contraption doesn't fit into my doorway and I can't get ahold of my landlord to ask about the screw in version. But I rejoin in a couple weeks.

Any suggestions on where to find a routine without barbells? As you know, I'd wanted to do 5x5 but according to the virtual tour of the nearest centre of the gymchain I'm rejoining, they only have machine barbells as opposed to free ones. And from what I understand barbells>dumbells>machine barbells.

The facilities may have changed since that virtual tour so I'll have to check when I rejoin and there's another branch that's not near my house but near my college so I'll have to check there also once my membership restarts.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Brilliant, just checking your still on it


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Brilliant, just checking your still on it


Any reply on the place to find a good routine that doesn't require barbells?


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-ripped-dude-whats-an-effective-bodyweight-workout.html

Try that mate, lower the reps from 30 to 15, complete all the work he has shown, but only do 3 sets of each for now, aslo increase the resting time to 70 seconds.

Next week increase the sets to 4, the week after 5.

Then once you hit 5 sets start increasing the reps till you can do the full reps, once you get there, cut down the rest time gradually


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> How did yesterday go, did you avoid the pop? Did you train? How about diet?





Madoxx said:


> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-ripped-dude-whats-an-effective-bodyweight-workout.html
> 
> Try that mate, lower the reps from 30 to 15, complete all the work he has shown, but only do 3 sets of each for now, aslo increase the resting time to 70 seconds.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Now I feel silly for rejoining thr gym!


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## Dark_Ansem (Jun 25, 2013)

as far as stupid what I say might sound, you should focus on keeping muscle mass. it's the reason I even considered DNP (due to distratrous over-prolonged diets in the past who ate me up from within) as muscle mass burns more calories than fat.

paradoxically you could end with your ideal weight but with more % of fat than what is advisable.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Rubes said:


> Thanks. Now I feel silly for rejoining thr gym!


Sorry must of misread, one minute you can't afford gym, next you have dumbells and a pull up bar, then your in college and can't do this, can't do that, we are post number 109 now, cnt keep up..... I assumed you wanted a routine that you coukd do without weights....

So you've joined a gym now then, and it had various machines but only dumbells?


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

I was always able to afford gym. But I wasn't going and it was an expensive waste so I quit. I've never had dumbells. I do have a pull up bar that wont fit in my doorway. I am in college. I have rejoined the gym and can start going on 1 August. I wasn't aware I changed anything. It has machines, dumbells and a machine fixed barbell.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Your routine is helpfill madoxx. For now, it's way better than what I've been doing at home.


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## MC-Racer (Mar 15, 2013)

Rubes, find a friend who is as motivated as you to go to the gym and bounce off him and if your skint invest in a road racer pushbike. mine saves me £150 a month in tube fares and helps me burn 1000 cals a day even before I've walked in the gym.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Do what I suggested until Aug 1st when you have gym membership, then switch onto the "All pro beginner routine" listed here -http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

Its a nice simple routine that will work you all over, a few times per week.

You will need to do the following changes tho to avoid barbell;

Squats - do dumbell squats

Overhead barbell presses - do dumbell push press

Barbell curls - do dumbell curls

Stiff leg deads, do it with dumbells


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Do what I suggested until Aug 1st when you have gym membership, then switch onto the "All pro beginner routine" listed here -http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1
> 
> Its a nice simple routine that will work you all over, a few times per week.
> 
> ...


Ah, Cheers mate. I didn't even realise you could do dumbell deads but a quick google search shows u can  and the technique


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Well it's a few days before I can attend the gym again. I've dropped a pant size (two on certain brands) since I started.


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## Beats (Jun 9, 2011)

All im reading in here are excuses for not dieting or training

@Madoxx has spent alot of time giving you some sound advice here and your going on 20 min dog walks and eating richmond sausages

FFS mate stop being a lazy cnut and get training and dieting properly!


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Dizzee! said:


> All im reading in here are excuses for not dieting or training
> 
> @Madoxx has spent alot of time giving you some sound advice here and your going on 20 min dog walks and eating richmond sausages
> 
> FFS mate stop being a lazy cnut and get training and dieting properly!


Which I've thanked him for. I have seen results already...

MFP defaults my runkeeper sessions to dogwalks. In any case, since I've stopped coming on here I've been doing a 2.5 minimum walk and have followed the suggested bodyweight routine.

My net daily calories are good and my gym membership restarts tomorrow. Also...I no longer feel fatigued all the time.

Edit: I assume the excuses you're referring to are: no gym membership at the time, being away at a summer school and having already blown my money on food?

If so, They're all non-valid atm.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

How much you lost so far mate


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Not sure how this forum views nerco-ing but God, how cringe it is to return to this thread years later. Can't believe I was defending eating a ton of sausages. It's been years, now 22.

Goals are still the same. I ended up peaking round 130kg when I was 18 due to disordered binge-type eating. I went down to about 100 in 2016 but peaked to 115 later that year after some depression but now I'm back at 100kg (well 99.7). Not sure exactly what to aim for. My mental health, motivation and diet are fine for the most part.

How would you pick your goal weight? I'm 179.3 (5 foot 10.6) and according to the BMI cals, my ideal weight is 80kg or lower. Now, I know in cases like the Arnolds, it can go a bit awry but as I'm not lifting heavy, we can assume that's not the case.

But based on my album photos here, I don't think I looked particular overweight. I wore size 30-34 jeans and was 85kg at the time and I was younger then (16?) => mid 70s seems too thin. So my current plan is to get to 90 asap, perhaps stop weighing from there and do a mirror check to see where I'm happy, perhaps ending towards 80 at a more relaxed pace. That seem reasonable?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Rubes said:


> How would you pick your goal weight?


 I wouldn't. I'd go by body fat levels and muscle mass (the later could be too low for general health even if you don't care about the look).

Not read rest of thread BTW.


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## Rubes (Sep 4, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I wouldn't. I'd go by body fat levels and muscle mass (the later could be too low for general health even if you don't care about the look).
> 
> Not read rest of thread BTW.


 Hey dude, thanks for your reply.

And that's fair. Since turning veggie, I think I get between 80 and 100g of protein per day on average. I do plan to start lifting when I get to some sort of acceptable weight for sports reasons but that's awhile way yet. Fat % is a good shout. Using one of those hand held machines when I was 116kg a couple months ago, I was 40% fat and 25% a couple weeks ago at 100.8kg. 
Using some excel wizardry:









Which would mean that I'd be lean around 85.

Although back when I used to frequent these sorts of boards, I know those sorts of hand held things can be innacurate and it's possible I'm far higher than 25 atm.

This is what I'm looking like atm. As can see, am chubby though don't have a pot belly.


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