# First cycle - test e + Winstrol 15 weeks



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

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## WhoDoesRoidsLOL (May 20, 2021)

Cycle looks alright. Nothing to add here. Would adjust the arimidex as needed and visual sides from clomid are not all that common. Never had that issues.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Good chance that the sdex dose is too high. 

I'd not need any on that cycle


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

G-man99 said:


> Good chance that the sdex dose is too high.
> 
> I'd not need any on that cycle


Sdex??


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Sdex??


Arimidex


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

G-man99 said:


> Arimidex


Do you reckon I should not use it until I see/if I see any sides?

Cheers for info


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

I doubt you need any but if some 0.5 mg adex once a week would be suffice on that dose 

var I would run throughout week 1-PCT
Any reason for 10 weeks over 12-14?


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Do you reckon I should not use it until I see/if I see any sides?
> 
> Cheers for info


Yeah wait and see how you respond mate, much better than potentially crashing your estrogen and going from there. Also are you planning on doing bloods?


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Any thoughts on the above?


Good possibility you won't need any AI on that dose so only introduce if necessary, then use 0.5 E3D and adjust up/down as needed.
Clomid is far superior for PCT as does all the hard work, nolva is a weak gonadotropin stimulant but it's great for preventing oestrogen rebound gyno.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Tricky said:


> I doubt you need any but if some 0.5 mg adex once a week would be suffice on that dose
> 
> var I would run throughout week 1-PCT
> Any reason for 10 weeks over 12-14?



I’d like to do a shorter cycle for my first and see how I get on. 

Will probably do a second one a few months after with a different stack/length of time. 

Im looking to recoup lost muscle from being a fat bastard for four years, then having to cut for 6 months like I’ve just done + add some quality lean muscle.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

TURBS said:


> Good possibility you won't need any AI on that dose so only introduce if necessary, then use 0.5 E3D and adjust up/down as needed.
> Clomid is far superior for PCT as does all the hard work, nolva is a weak gonadotropin stimulant but it's great for preventing oestrogen rebound gyno.


So I should add in the Clomid for PCT then alongside nolva? I will do if it’s optimal


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> So I should add in the Clomid for PCT then alongside nolva? I will do if it’s optimal


Yes would run alongside.
As mentioned, good idea to get a full blood panel before embarking on taking steroids as gives you a base point for recovery and any issues that may arise.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

TURBS said:


> Yes would run alongside.
> As mentioned, good idea to get a full blood panel before embarking on taking steroids as gives you a base point for recovery and any issues that may arise.


Recommended dose for the Clomid? I’ve seen 100/100/50/50 around.

I have a blood test kit from medichecks so I’ll be using that to test everything beforehand. I’ll also get one for after PCT to make sure everything’s hunky dory.


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Recommended dose for the Clomid? I’ve seen 100/100/50/50 around.
> 
> I have a blood test kit from medichecks so I’ll be using that to test everything beforehand. I’ll also get one for after PCT to make sure everything’s hunky dory.


You could probably lower that a bit especially if worried about sides, maybe 50/50/50/25.
That's great, leave the retest until minimum 8 weeks past PCT to give chance of recovery.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

TURBS said:


> You could probably lower that a bit especially if worried about sides, maybe 50/50/50/25.
> That's great, leave the retest until minimum 8 weeks past PCT to give chance of recovery.


Ok cheers.

Great info, really appreciate the help from everyone thus far.


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

TURBS said:


> You could probably lower that a bit especially if worried about sides, maybe 50/50/50/25.
> That's great, leave the retest until minimum 8 weeks past PCT to give chance of recovery.


Clomid is falling out of favor these days isn't it I'm sure I've read that it's not as effective as nolva with a much higher chance of sides.


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

Godwin said:


> Clomid is falling out of favor these days isn't it


Yes, B&C is winning  

Clomid is more effective over nolva hence why used for TRT, I would do clomid only if had a choice between the two.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’ll post photos of all the gear beforehand + my bloods and stats.

Will then update at the end(I actually will, unlike so many other unfinished journals on the internet).

May even throw in a before/after body shot for good measure.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

You’re shut down. Use test, then stopping the cycle at 10 weeks when everything is in full swing. I would be running 12 weeks and maybe even 13/14 at a push to maximise gains but it’s up to yourself.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Tricky said:


> You’re shut down. Use test, then stopping the cycle at 10 weeks when everything is in full swing. I would be running 12 weeks and maybe even 13/14 at a push to maximise gains but it’s up to yourself.


Maybe that’s a good idea. I’ll see how I’m feeling/looking then I could push the 10 weeks out to 12-14 if it’s feels right.

Not looking for huge gains however + I have a trip second half of august and can’t be arsed taking prescription drugs for PCT through the airport. Trying to get it done and dusted by then to avoid the hassle.


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I’ll post photos of all the gear beforehand + my bloods and stats.
> 
> Will then update at the end(I actually will, unlike so many other unfinished journals on the internet).
> 
> May even throw in a before/after body shot for good measure.


Make sure you get your bloods taken venous, the finger prick test is notoriously inaccurate.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Godwin said:


> Make sure you get your bloods taken venous, the finger prick test is notoriously inaccurate.


Really? That’s shit as I have a finger prick test here. I’ll look into getting it done on Harley street instead then.


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## 132814 (Dec 1, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Stats;
> 
> 33 years old
> 5’8
> ...


Doesn’t look bad at all mate, personally I’d leave the Ai out until I got symptoms, I’d also not run an immediate pct with you running HCG throughout the cycle 250iu 3x a week is enough, after your cycle is pull bloods 6 weeks post and see where Fsh,LH and serum test were at before deciding to use pct drugs.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Really? That’s shit as I have a finger prick test here. I’ll look into getting it done on Harley street instead then.


I’ve done about 10 Finger prick blood tests with medi checks and they have always been been bang on for me.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

Sustanation79 said:


> Doesn’t look bad at all mate, personally I’d leave the Ai out until I got symptoms, I’d also not run an immediate pct with you running HCG throughout the cycle 250iu 3x a week is enough, after your cycle is pull bloods 6 weeks post and see where Fsh,LH and serum test were at before deciding to use pct drugs.


Never heard of anyone suggesting someone doesn’t do a PCT! Not great advice IMO. I would run the PCT always. Belt and braces


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## Todai (Jul 18, 2010)

sitries said:


> Never heard of anyone suggesting someone doesn’t do a PCT! Not great advice IMO. I would run the PCT always. Belt and braces


The theory, is your balls never shut down so its not needed. I don't subscribe to it, because its person dependant however the sake of a few bigmac meals worth of meds, throw it in. it's not going to make things worse


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Cheers for all the info, really helps me


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Stats;
> 
> 33 years old
> 5’8
> ...


Sensible and ideal. Personally I'd say leave the anavar till the second or further cycle. See what test is like solo. AIs are harsh and may not be necessary. Low doses keep sides minimal too, so that may need tinkering with or dropped all together (if you feel slow, lethargic, loss of horn and sore joints etc, men need estrogen too)


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## 132814 (Dec 1, 2021)

sitries said:


> Never heard of anyone suggesting someone doesn’t do a PCT! Not great advice IMO. I would run the PCT always. Belt and braces


Well you’ve obviously lived under a rock as nowadays people use blood tests as a measuring stick instead of mindlessly throwing drugs at an issue and hoping they work , it’s very common to find 6 weeks post cession of anabolics that your FSh,LH and serum test are back in range and will naturally go up on their own accord, if they didn’t then yes this would warrant a pct, but in addition the man is going to be using HCG on cycle which will also increase his chances of recovering without a pct.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> Sensible and ideal. Personally I'd say leave the anavar till the second or further cycle. See what test is like solo. AIs are harsh and may not be necessary. Low doses keep sides minimal too, so that may need tinkering with or dropped all together (if you feel slow, lethargic, loss of horn and sore joints etc, men need estrogen too)


duly noted.

would using anavar in conjunction with test e enhance the fat loss? I suppose it’s dependant on the individual. That was my thinking when including it.

this is bearing in mind that I’ll be eating at around maintenance, keeping protein high, as I want to continue to lose BF% and put on some lean Muscle. Not expecting miracles of course.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> duly noted.
> 
> would using anavar in conjunction with test e enhance the fat loss? I suppose it’s dependant on the individual. That was my thinking when including it.
> 
> this is bearing in mind that I’ll be eating at around maintenance, keeping protein high, as I want to continue to lose BF% and put on some lean Muscle. Not expecting miracles of course.


No. Just no buddy.
Fat loss isn't a result of steroids, it's diet and training.
Looking to a drug for fat loss is a hiding to nothing.
Trying to grow and lose fat is also a hiding to nothing. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.
Adding more steroids as you want to be leaner is the wrong mind set. No need to get fat but if you're trying to grow then eating in a surplus is needed. You'd just be wasting the drugs.

It's your first cycle and you're trying to do things those that have been training for years and are on point still struggle with.

Take the test. Up calories and grow. Don't get fat, but grow. See how it all impacts you and adjust from there. You don't ever "need" more than one compound either by the way. It's just choice and preferences. And each different compound comes with its own issues and sides.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> No. Just no buddy.
> Fat loss isn't a result of steroids, it's diet and training.
> Looking to a drug for fat loss is a hiding to nothing.
> Trying to grow and lose fat is also a hiding to nothing. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.
> ...


ok fair enough. Cheers for the insight much appreciated.

by putting on lean muscle,the BF% will go down. That’s my goal. As stated previously I’m not hoping For miracles.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> ok fair enough. Cheers for the insight much appreciated.
> 
> by putting on lean muscle,the BF% will go down. That’s my goal. As stated previously I’m not hoping For miracles.


In percentage value yes, but not in real terms. 

Realistically you should lose fat when on cycle as it increases your metabolism, and nutrient partitioning favours muscle growth. Plus fat cells have androgen receptor too.

But focusing on that means you're missing the bigger picture. If you gain muscle, sure, the percentage will lower but you're not losing fat mass. Adding to the overall weight you carry will lower the percentage of fat, as that's how maths works.

Eat in a slight surplus. Focus on training progressively and pushing yourself. Being sensible and monitoring sides and diet will result in great things.

Most juts bang in more gear and wait for the drugs to do it for them.

You're on the right path. Slow and steady.

Don't let the UKM nonsense swallow you though.

You'll have people here telling you you need to be on at least a gram or you'll not gain etc 

Learn for yourself by keeping it simple and focusing on what matters, the training and diet. Drugs are just the icing on the cake. And as little of them as possible is the way to go.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> In percentage value yes, but not in real terms.
> 
> Realistically you should lose fat when on cycle as it increases your metabolism, and nutrient partitioning favours muscle growth. Plus fat cells have androgen receptor too.
> 
> ...


i shall be heeding your advice and be focusing on gaining lean muscle only then. Slight surplus in calories.

Thanks for the advice, it’s really honing this all in for me.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> i shall be heeding your advice and be focusing on gaining lean muscle only then. Slight surplus in calories.
> 
> Thanks for the advice, it’s really honing this all in for me.


You're in the right path mate


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

Sustanation79 said:


> Well you’ve obviously lived under a rock as nowadays people use blood tests as a measuring stick instead of mindlessly throwing drugs at an issue and hoping they work , it’s very common to find 6 weeks post cession of anabolics that your FSh,LH and serum test are back in range and will naturally go up on their own accord, if they didn’t then yes this would warrant a pct, but in addition the man is going to be using HCG on cycle which will also increase his chances of recovering without a pct.


I hear what your saying but what if you’ve waited 6 weeks and LH and FSH haven’t recovered….. then you’ve lost a 3 week window of recover. 

In addition to that, how many people do you know of that are on the hall with getting bloods done etc for their 1st cycle!? I know I wasn’t.


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## 132814 (Dec 1, 2021)

sitries said:


> I hear what your saying but what if you’ve waited 6 weeks and LH and FSH haven’t recovered….. then you’ve lost a 3 week window of recover.
> 
> In addition to that, how many people do you know of that are on the hall with getting bloods done etc for their 1st cycle!? I know I wasn’t.


Obviously you didn’t hear what I was saying as your response post wouldn’t of been uploaded if you did.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

Sustanation79 said:


> Obviously you didn’t hear what I was saying as your response post wouldn’t of been uploaded if you did.


Nope. Just read your post again and same response from me I’m afraid (minus the spelling mistakes).


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Afternoon gentlemen.

I have begun my cycle 20/04/2022.

300mg test e E7D
500iu HCG E3D
50mg Anavar ED

May add in the Arimidex just in case, just doing some more reading first.

My current stats;

33
5’8
76kg

Ive been going 3 x a week in gym with a basic split of compound movements followed by isolation movements, keeping it simple, but will up that if I recover more quickly to 5 x a week, let’s see what happens.

I’ve been dieting since January and will continue to be in a small deficit for the next couple of weeks, then up my calories to maintenance. Ill play it all by ear and see how my body reacts.

I’ll post my exact diet soon with macros and calories. Ill also post updates/progress.

I will also post pics, but not just yet.

cheers for all the help so far.

Johnny


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

FYI, my last blood test in June 2020 showed I had 19nmol/L of testosterone.

I shall be doing another during my cycle and after PCT.

cheers


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I may also increase the dosage of test e to 450mg a day. I’ll see how I respond then make a decision. I want to maximise my first cycle if I’m shutting my natural test down.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Ok, these are my macros, please advise if this isn’t optimal;

[email protected] 1,750 calories
[email protected] 2350 calories

2.7g protein per kg of body weight
40/40/20 split

Macros
205g protein = 820 calories
205g carbohydrate = 820 calories
57g fat = 400 calories
Total = 2040 calories

310 calorie deficit

Will up calories to maintenance/small surplus after 3/4 weeks if everything goes well. Will see how my body responds. Last thing I want is to add body fat.

My body seems to do well when holding onto muscle in a deficit, even at lower levels of protein per kg of body weight.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

My current training split;

Aiming for 3 sets of 8/12 reps on each. This isn’t set in stone and I’ll be upping sets/weight as necessary. Any advice very welcome. 

Day one 

Chest
Bench press 
Decline Bench 
bench Dumbbells 
Bench dumbbell flys 10kg 

Triceps
Skull crusher dumbbell 
Standing overhead dumbbell lift
Cable pull downs 

Abs
Ah machine 
Sit ups 

Day two

Shoulders
Olympic press
Arnold press 
Upright barbell row(pull up to chest from resting position) 
Reverse incline side raises 
Side standing partial dumbbell lifts 

Abs
Ah machine 
Sit ups 

Day three 

Legs
Squats 
Leg press(squat) machine 
Standing lunges 

Abs
Ah machine 
Sit ups 

Day four

Back
Body weight pull-ups 
Deadlift 
Bent over row
Dumbbell bench pulls 

Biceps
Seated Barbell curls
Standing alternating curl 
Seated alternating curls


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> [email protected] 1,750 calories
> [email protected] 2350 calories
> 
> 2.7g protein per kg of body weight
> ...


Looks alright. I'd prefer more carbs personally. If you use the usual 1g protein/lb of body weight, you'll be able to substitute roughly 40g of protein for carbs which might help you feel fuller/fuel your workouts.


JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> My current training split;
> 
> Aiming for 3 sets of 8/12 reps on each. This isn’t set in stone and I’ll be upping sets/weight as necessary. Any advice very welcome.
> 
> ...


Also looks okay.

I don't get on well with doing 2 pressing movements for shoulders in one workout myself, but it's personal preference.

The leg day could do with a direct hamstring movement like RDL, GHR, lying/standing leg curl and some direct calf work like standing/seated calf raise.

For biceps, you're not going to get much extra out of doing alternating curls standing and then seated. I'd replace one with something that is hitting the bicep a little differently rather than mimicking the exact same movement standing/seated.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’ve decided to go 12 weeks instead of 10 on test e. I may do 4 weeks on 300mg then up it to 600mg for 8 weeks. I’ll see how I respond.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Currently training shoulders.

the burn I’m getting is insane, never had this much of a burn/pump before in my life.

trained biceps and back yesterday and pain is minimal, would usually get awful DOMS.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

update;

I’m up 2kg. I can noticeably see an increase in my muscle mass, although the weight is probably a lot to do with water.

I’ve always had puffy nipples. Im worried about it now and maybe I should put in the Arimidex to combat any sides of that nature. I was thinking 0.5mg E3D and see how it goes from there.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’m going to be eating slightly less than what I posted before, then up it from there if needed. I’ve put on 2kg in a week so I want to minimise fat gain. 

Here is my diet plan worked out;

BMR = 1750

Macros of the below;
1,774.5 calories
42.3g fat
181g carbs
170.9g protein

Supplements;

Cod liver oil omega 3&6
Co enzyme q-10
Magnesium
Multivitamin

Breakfast
200g skyr yoghurt 0% fat
100g grapes
50g blueberries
2 dates(35g without stone)

348.5 calories
1.6g fat
65.5g carbs
23g protein

Lunch
160g chicken breast(sainsburys sliced cooked)
100g Broccoli 
200g cooked weight Koshihikari rice 

410 calories 
4.1g fat 
54.2g carbs 
41.6g protein 

Snack
50g Peanuts

294 calories 
23.2g fat
7g carbs
12.2g protein 

50g whey Protein isolate choc/peanut butter with water

172 calories
0.6g fat
1.4g carbs
40g protein 

Dinner
200g chicken breast raw weight skin off 
200g Vegetables (broccoli, peppers, courgettes, onion etc)
10g olive oil
200g cooked weight Koshihikari rice 

550 calories 
12.8g fat
52.9g carbs 
54.1g protein


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Can a mod move this to training logs/journals please? I’ll keep updating


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## 134637 (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I’m going to be eating slightly less than what I posted before, then up it from there if needed. I’ve put on 2kg in a week so I want to minimise fat gain.
> 
> Here is my diet plan worked out;
> 
> ...


I don't think you're eating enough. The weight gain is clearly water, not fat. 

You're wasting this cycle, considering your stats, if you're going to barely eat enough food for maintenance let alone muscle building.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Pegasus said:


> I don't think you're eating enough. The weight gain is clearly water, not fat.
> 
> You're wasting this cycle, considering your stats, if you're going to barely eat enough food for maintenance let alone muscle building.


I’m going to up calories as I go.

I’ve just come off a 5 month calorie deficit. I need to add calories in progressively otherwise I’ll shit my pants in the gym 😂

My BMR + activity is 2350. I’ll add in 500+ calories in the next week or so, but I’m gauging how my body reacts as I go. 

By week 3-4 I’ll be in a healthy surplus without adding fat. It’s better to keep things open to change instead of arbitrary numbers.


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Can a mod move this to training logs/journals please? I’ll keep updating


Done.


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Following mate, follow all current Journals! 👍


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

You obviously haven’t gained 2KG of fat or anywhere near that amount in a week with the calories you’re eating. It’s extra water and glycogen from introducing gear. I understand you’re trying to be conservative but at the same time, if you spend 3 weeks making tiny adjustments and gauging, that’s a quarter of your cycle gone.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

This morning I’m currently up 3.3kg since last Tuesday(26/4/22).


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## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> This morning I’m currently up 3.3kg since last Tuesday(26/4/22).


I’m 3wks in on my first cycle and 4kg heavier. I don’t look fatter, body fat calliper measurements haven’t changed, and waist circumference hasn’t changed. Try not let your weight gain alone give you the impression there is a lot of fat and start dropping calories. It’s quite startling watching weight shoot up rapidly I know.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> I’m 3wks in on my first cycle and 4kg heavier. I don’t look fatter, body fat calliper measurements haven’t changed, and waist circumference hasn’t changed. Try not let your weight gain alone give you the impression there is a lot of fat and start dropping calories. It’s quite startling watching weight shoot up rapidly I know.


100%

I’ve just come off a long calorie deficit diet so I expected a bounce back of water.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Blood pressure this morning is first reading; 117/59 second reading; 118/60

97% blood oxygen level


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Strength is up. I feel like I can do more in the gym. Should I do more sets of different exercises or not?

I trained legs last week and I couldn’t walk. Trained them again two days ago and only my arse hurts, but they overall feel good.


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> This morning I’m currently up 3.3kg since last Tuesday(26/4/22).


I've probably put 3.3 ounces on in the same time mate... 😂


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Second injection on Monday. Got a lot worse PIP from it, limping a bit and now have flu like symptoms and my stomach is painful.

Hopefully will go away by tomorrow


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’ve always had puffy nipples since being a teenager and they look extra puffy at the moment. So I’m doing 0.5mg Arimidex twice a week.


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## DKH1988 (May 3, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I’ve always had puffy nipples since being a teenager and they look extra puffy at the moment. So I’m doing 0.5mg Arimidex twice a week.


Following mate. 
Go careful not to tank your e2. Most people won't need any ai on 300mg test a week. If the only sides you're getting is puffy nips (which might just be in your head rather than they're actually puffier than normal) have you though about just taking nolva instead. Flooring your estrogen levels will make you feel shite, just something to bare in mind


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

DKH1988 said:


> Following mate.
> Go careful not to tank your e2. Most people won't need any ai on 300mg test a week. If the only sides you're getting is puffy nips (which might just be in your head rather than they're actually puffier than normal) have you though about just taking nolva instead. Flooring your estrogen levels will make you feel shite, just something to bare in mind



Noted.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Advice needed;

I’m going away at end of august for a week. I was thinking of running the test-e @ 300mg/week closer to that date, so that would extend the cycle to 14/15 weeks. The Anavar will be dropped after 8 weeks as per normal. Then do PCT a couple of weeks after I got back. It saves having to take PCT drugs into and out of foreign countries. 

Is the length overkill or does it sound reasonable?


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Advice needed;
> 
> I’m going away at end of august for a week. I was thinking of running the test-e @ 300mg/week closer to that date, so that would extend the cycle to 14/15 weeks. The Anavar will be dropped after 8 weeks as per normal. Then do PCT a couple of weeks after I got back. It saves having to take PCT drugs into and out of foreign countries.
> 
> Is the length overkill or does it sound reasonable?


The length is normal.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

DLTBB said:


> The length is normal.


Lovely. Plan implemented 💪🏻

I’ve upped calories by 500 too FYI


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Update;

My strength is noticeably improving. 

The pump in my forearms and biceps are insane.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

People say you see changes after 4/5 weeks.

I’m two weeks in and already look noticeably jacked. The vascularity is very noticeable and that’s at 20% BF too.

Very happy and impressed so far.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Strength is going through the roof. I’m surprising myself with how easy it is to lift. Added 17.5kg to bench press already with ease.

All I can say is wow.

+ just got my first insane back pumps, strangest feeling ever - and I was only doing reverse sit ups unweighted 😅


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I bought a couple of test kits to see whether my Anavar 50mg tabs are real or not.

Looks like it’s winstrol from the test results. So my first cycle is test e 300mg and winstrol.

Im unsure of the veracity of these test kits but if true I’m a bit pissed off. Why pass off winstrol as anavar, robbing bastards.

calling out Adelphi research for being stupid pricks.

Shall I continue the winstrol as normal as I’ve been taking it for three weeks now, or drop it? Or buy another labs Anavar instead and swap out the winstrol? Need advice on that.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Ok so end of week 3. 

I’m up 7kg. No noticeable fat gain. 

Insane


----------



## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

Can you see any changes in the mirror?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> Can you see any changes in the mirror?


Yes. All over my muscles have gained size, haven’t put on any noticeable fat. I’m regaining my v taper. 

T-shirts sleeves are tighter. 

Big changes


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’ve taken my fourth weeks worth of test-e today. I’m taking a blood test today to see where everything is and if I’m on track health wise.

I haven’t noticed any negative side effects. I do have puffy nipples, but I already had those and I have pubertal gyno so it’s more than likely not any worse due to the cycle.

I do feel horny a lot more and my dick hurts if i don’t see to it on the regular 😂

I have less aches and pains than before starting. Although that may also be down to eating more(I was on deficit for 6 months) and being back in the gym more. Apart from that I feel the same as usual.

I’ll report back when I get the blood test results.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’m thinking of upping the test e to 600mg a week from next week. I’ll await the blood test results and advice from you guys before doing so.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Blood pressure results today;

118/64

Pulse; 61 BPM

Blood oxygen level; 98%


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I’m thinking of upping the test e to 600mg a week from next week. I’ll await the blood test results and advice from you guys before doing so.


Sounds like you’re gaining well and have no side effects and your blood pressure is good, don’t fix what isn’t broken man.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

DLTBB said:


> Sounds like you’re gaining well and have no side effects and your blood pressure is good, don’t fix what isn’t broken man.


very true. I think unless the blood test results come back and show my gear is underdosed, or I suddenly stop seeing gains, then I should keep it the same throughout.

ill be left with some spare gear. Can use it next one I hope.

im thinking of doing the PCT. Giving my body some time, then going for a second cycle in October. same goal as this one. Then in march/April next year doing a proper cutting cycle.

i should have built up a really solid physique by that point.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> very true. I think unless the blood test results come back and show my gear is underdosed, or I suddenly stop seeing gains, then I should keep it the same throughout.
> 
> ill be left with some spare gear. Can use it next one I hope.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're making good headway so far anyway. I reckon the Test will be alright but will be interested to see bloods. Yeah once you're 3 cycles in, you'll have built a solid physique man.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

_I’m looking at adapting my training so I can hit every muscle twice a week instead of once. 

Any advice will be much appreciated. _


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

UPDATED DIET

I’ve been eating like this the last two weeks. I also add in things sometimes, like a bit of steak, some bread etc, if I’m feeling peckish. I own a Restaurant so I can add things in easily(I don’t eat the desserts, the diet is staying clean and I’m strict). 

weight; 83.5kg

2,365 calories
72g fat
234g carbs
194.8g protein

Breakfast
200g skyr yoghurt 0% fat
100g grapes
50g blueberries
2 dates(35g without stone)

348.5 calories
1.6g fat
65.5g carbs
23g protein

1 bagel
10g peanut butter

296.5 calories
6.5g fat
46g carbs
11.7g protein

Lunch
160g chicken breast(sainsburys sliced cooked)
100g Broccoli
200g cooked weight Koshihikari rice

410 calories
4.1g fat
54.2g carbs
41.6g protein

Snack
100g Peanuts/cashews

588 calories
46.4g fat
14g carbs
24.4g protein

50g whey Protein isolate choc/peanut butter with water

172 calories
0.6g fat
1.4g carbs
40g protein

Dinner
200g chicken breast raw weight skin off
200g Vegetables (broccoli, peppers, courgettes, onion etc)
10g olive oil
200g cooked weight Koshihikari rice

550 calories
12.8g fat
52.9g carbs
54.1g protein


----------



## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

Thought you were upping calories? Remarkable weight gain considering. My weight gain stalled this week and am on about 2750 and similar weight and time through first cycle


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> Thought you were upping calories? Remarkable weight gain considering. My weight gain stalled this week and am on about 2750 and similar weight and time through first cycle


I upped from 1700 to 2365


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> _I’m looking at adapting my training so I can hit every muscle twice a week instead of once.
> 
> Any advice will be much appreciated. _


Yes, Full Body Routine.... 👍💪


----------



## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I upped from 1700 to 2365


That’s still quite low. If you are putting on weight something doesn’t seem to be adding up. 7kg can’t all be water surely?!?


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> That’s still quite low. If you are putting on weight something doesn’t seem to be adding up. 7kg can’t all be water surely?!?


No, I’ve definitely added muscle too. Although I came off a long deficit and the rebound is expected. Happened to me before without any PEDs. 

my BMR is 1900 calories, I’m eating 2365 now, plus I eat a bit more steak etc when I cook in the restaurant. I’m probably closer to 2500-2600. That’s more than enough. It’s maintenance + a small surplus. You don’t need to eat hundreds of calories over that to gain muscle.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

That is a huge change, and just in 3.5wks. Doing something right 👍


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> That is a huge change, and just in 3.5wks. Doing something right 👍


Cheers mate. I’m obviously aware that I’m a fat bastard and that mindset is hard to shift.
November last year I was 98.5kg, all fat. I’d lost a lot of my muscle. I went down to 74kg by March this year and I’m now back up to 83-84kg. Obviously it’s not fat this time.

Im deadly serious with my diet and training, so maybe my progress will look fast to others, but how many people actually Stick to their diet and training religiously? When I do something I do it 100% or not at all.

hopefully everyone will be shocked at the difference this time next year. I’ll keep updating regularly.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Biceps 15.5 inches 
Hoping to add an inch by end of cycle.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Supplements I’m currently taking



Co enzyme q10


Thiamin (Vitamin B1)0.17 mg15Co-Enzyme Q10200 mg

Multivitamin


Vitamin A (RE)800 µg100%Vitamin E (α-TE)15 mg125%Vitamin C100 mg125%Vitamin K30 µg40%Vitamin B1 (Thiamin)1.4 mg127%Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)1.75 mg125%Vitamin B62 mg143%Vitamin B122.5 µg100%Vitamin D5 µg100%Biotin62.5 µg125%Folic Acid200 µg100%Niacin (NE)20 mg125%Pantothenic Acid7.5 mg125%MineralsCalcium162 mg20%Phosphorous125 mg18%Magnesium100 mg27%Iron5 mg36%Iodine100 µg67%Copper500 mg50%Manganese2 mg100%Chromium40 µg100%Molybdenum50 µg100%Selenium30 µg55%Zinc5 mg50%Lutein500 µ

Cod liver oil


Vitamin A400 µg RE50Vitamin D35 µg100Cod Liver Oil501 mg-& Fish Body Oil499 mg-Providing EPA & DHA187 mg

Magnesium


Magnesium750mg100


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Great condition in 2015 mate. Surprised how big you got, but you have been honest, making excellent progress and well done getting all that weight off. 👍


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

BLOOD TEST RESULTS;



















I took the test a couple of hours after injecting 300mg test e on a Monday. That was a week after my last jab. I trained legs the day before. maybe the testosterone level would be higher if I took the test a day or so after injection.

these are the doctors notes with the test;


thank you for the information provided on your medical history. I understand that you are taking this test as a general check due to being on anabolic androgenic steroids.

You have a high level of alanine transferase. This can indicate inflammation within the liver and has many causes, common ones include prescription medications, heavy exercise and recent infections.
In your case your result is significantly high and so I also recommend you share this with your GP who may wish to arrange further tests to look into the cause. If you are feeling unusually unwell with any new symptoms such as pain, nausea, vomiting or change in your bowels then I would suggest you consult a doctor at your earliest convenience, ideally today.

Your albumin is slightly decreased, this is not a cause for concern.

Your cholesterol profile shows that you have low levels of protective HDL cholesterol. It is important to try to rectify this as HDL is protective against cardiovascular disease (heart attacks, strokes, etc.) and low levels can increase your risk for these issues. You can improve this by increasing your oily fish consumption. Two portions of oily fish per week are recommended. Examples of oily fish include salmon, trout, tuna, mackerel, herrings, sardines and pilchards. Omega 3 supplements, flax & chia seeds are also good if you don't like fish.
Low HDL can also be caused by supplements aimed at raising testosterone.

Your triglycerides are a little increased, a common cause for this is eating prior to the test. Yours are only slightly increased and are not a cause for concern. Over your lifetime having slightly increased levels of triglycerides can act to increase your risk of heart disease and stroke. If your triglycerides remain elevated on future tests then decreasing your intake of fatty foods and alcohol can help to decrease your triglyceride level. Omega 3 supplements can also help to reduce levels.

You have a markedly elevated creatine kinase level. This is a breakdown product from injured muscle. It is a common finding in a bodybuilder or athlete, however yours is at a level that starts to raise concerns about a condition called rhabdomyolysis. The threshold at which we start to consider this is 1000 in a person of average build. The value for an athlete is likely to be higher if they have significantly increased muscle mass.
There are a wide range of potential symptoms. The classic example is dark brown or tea-coloured urine. Other symptoms that would cause concern include muscle tenderness, swelling, stiffness and cramping, accompanied by weakness. There are also some non-specific symptoms, such as malaise, fever, abdominal pain, and nausea and vomiting. If any of these affect you then I recommend attending your local emergency department today. If you are feeling well then I recommend repeating your CK test at least 48 hours after any intensive exercise to establish what your baseline is.

Your vitamin D levels are at the low end of the normal range. vitamin D levels which are not in optimal range can affect your motivation to exercise, and your speed and stamina whilst exercising. Taking 400 iu (10mcg) per day will help to keep your vitamin D at healthy levels.

Your testosterone level is high in keeping with being on anabolic androgenic steroids.

Overall then there are a few areas to follow up on such as the liver function and creatine kinase. I hope that you have found this information useful and please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any queries.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Week 5;

I’ve upped my test e dose to 450mg a week. Week 1-4 I did 300mg.
I’m injecting every Monday/Thursday instead of once a week.

interested to see how it effects everything when a little higher in dose and taken twice a week.

I’m seeing insane results so far. Possibly due to muscle memory as well, but I’m starting to see strength territory that I’ve never been in before. 

Bearing in mind I’m only in my fifth week, I’m excited to see how I am when the test e really kicks in full force. 

my balls are the same size as always. Hopefully that’s the HCG doing it’s thing.

my nips have calmed down a fair bit, I only did Arimidex twice in week 3 and dropped it.


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## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

Whats been the sum total of weight gain/loss so far?


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> Whats been the sum total of weight gain/loss so far?


ill weigh myself tomorrow morning. I think around 10kg total


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Had a bad twinge in my lower right back today doing squats. Think it’s from bad deadlift form. Had to stop squats on third working set.

Buying grips for deadlift to help out. Maybe I should go slightly higher reps/lower weight with deadlift.


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## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> ill weigh myself tomorrow morning. I think around 10kg total


I shot up 6kg in 5wks. But in the last week ive probably 'only' gained 0.5kg. Which is still a lot, but was quite enjoying it going up more than twice as fast! Be interesting to see if you also plateau


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> I shot up 6kg in 5wks. But in the last week ive probably 'only' gained 0.5kg. Which is still a lot, but was quite enjoying it going up more than twice as fast! Be interesting to see if you also plateau


I will do. I came off a long harsh calorie deficit, so part of the bounce back in weight was water, glycogen and more food in my body.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Added in 2000iu of vitamin d3 a day as my blood test showed in the low normal range. That was with my multivitamin containing vitamin d. Goes to show the bioavailability of multivitamins can be shite.


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Added in 2000iu of vitamin d3 a day as my blood test showed in the low normal range.


Might be an idea to add in Vitamin K2 alongside if not already taking it, it increases calcium in the bones and reduces calcium plaque in the arteries.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I have this in my multivitamin;



Vitamin K30 µg40%

I’ll buy k2 mate cheers for the recommendation.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Weight this morning;

86.3kg

up 10.6kg since the start of my cycle.

thats shit loads isn’t it 😅


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Multivitamins don't have the maximum dose for all Vitamins, you usually have to buy individually if you want to up the dosage of any them. I used to have the main vitamins bought individually, then switched to a sports multivitamin. I may switch back myself.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Felt like shit the past two days. Tired, no energy, aching everywhere.

think it’s a combination of overtraining and work. Hurt my lower back earlier in the week.

been to gym 4 instead of 5 days this week. No big deal. Worked every body part.

Need to try and get better quality sleep.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Felt like shit the past two days. Tired, no energy, aching everywhere.
> 
> think it’s a combination of overtraining and work. Hurt my lower back earlier in the week.
> 
> ...


My advice is to listen to your body. I know you won't want to waste a week of cycle having a rest but a few days off is probably a good idea.


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

Pegasus said:


> My advice is to listen to your body. I know you won't want to waste a week of cycle having a rest but a few days off is probably a good idea.


I second that advice, you’ll progress much better and avoid injury and missing a couple days of training wont be too detrimental in the long run. At the end of the day you will still be making progress by taking some days to recover.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Yes true. I agree with you both. I’ve already taken two days off, see how I feel in the morning. If I still lack energy I’ll leave the gym until Wednesday at least. I’m going on a small holiday Monday/Tuesday anyway so it’s a good excuse. 

Ill continue eating well throughout of course.

I’m looking forward to dropping the winstrol too as my left elbow is dry as ****.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Feel a lot better today so doing shoulders and biceps.

i need to chill out with going too heavy with deadlifts and squats. That’s what’s ****ed me over. Still been to gym 4 times this week and done everything I needed to do + extra biceps workout.

The pump on biceps and forearms is insane today


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

My lower back feels constantly pumped. I’ve done next to nothing today and not been in the gym since Sunday, but it feels like I’ve done a mega deadlift session.

is this the Winnie?

ive done the Winnie for 6 weeks today. Was planning on running it a further two weeks. Will dropping it out now get rid of these horrible back pumps?


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> My lower back feels constantly pumped. I’ve done next to nothing today and not been in the gym since Sunday, but it feels like I’ve done a mega deadlift session.
> 
> is this the Winnie?
> 
> ive done the Winnie for 6 weeks today. Was planning on running it a further two weeks. Will dropping it out now get rid of these horrible back pumps?


I’m not experienced with winnie but i am aware different orals cause different pumps for people.
Tbol for me causes shin pumps, other say it causes lower back pumps 🤷‍♂️
Could very well be the winny , i’ve heard taurine can help with it and dropping it certainly will if it is the cause.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’ve knocked the Winnie on the head. Done it for 6 weeks. Joints are dry/aching, back feels ****ing horrible, aching all over and feel lethargic and no motivation, headaches and neck ache.
Hopefully those things will go now I’ve discontinued use.
I’m continuing on 450mg/week of test e jabbed twice weekly for the next 8-9 weeks.

cheers for everyone’s input so far.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oh yeah, I’ve got a bit of spots around the top of my arse/on the Cheeks 😅 not the squeezable kind but they’re red and lumpy.

not necessarily bad or anything but something I’ll keep an eye on.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Feeling decent in the gym today, pumps feel better. Could be discontinuing winny or the paracetamol I had this morning. Time will tell


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Amazing how quickly the effects of the winny wear off. I was getting huge pumps that lasted forever, now after the gym the pumps gone. No more pumps whisking egg whites. Kind of a relief to be honest.

24 hours for the effects to vanish.


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> No more pumps whisking egg whites. Kind of a relief to be honest.
> 
> 24 hours for the effects to vanish.


I find that absolutely hillarious, ive never experienced that from orals so it just sounds wild. Glad you’re not dealing with the pumps anymore i hear they can be impossible to work out with at times.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> I find that absolutely hillarious, ive never experienced that from orals so it just sounds wild. Glad you’re not dealing with the pumps anymore i hear they can be impossible to work out with at times.


i did some reverse sit ups on one of those machines with no weight. I had to sit down three times walking back from the gym because my back was Fvcked.

whisking egg whites, my forearms were like popeyes 😅 pretty mental


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Amazing how quickly the effects of the winny wear off. I was getting huge pumps that lasted forever, now after the gym the pumps gone. No more pumps whisking egg whites. Kind of a relief to be honest.
> 
> 24 hours for the effects to vanish.


I have to do a strange hip sway / dance whilst washing up because of the insta back pumps. Surreal


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> I have to do a strange hip sway / dance whilst washing up because of the insta back pumps. Surreal


Fvcking horrible isn’t it.

ive got 8 more weeks worth of 50mg tabs. Can’t sell them because it’s illegal 😅 might use them again next year when I’m much leaner as a finisher.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

My back is twinging and painful on the right hand side so I’m dropping deadlifts and squats until it clears up.

Even doing barbell rows is painful at 70kg 3x9.

fvcking annoying but hopefully it clear up. I’ll have to get some frozen peas or something. Any other advice on how to clear it up would be appreciated.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> My back is twinging and painful on the right hand side so I’m dropping deadlifts and squats until it clears up.
> 
> Even doing barbell rows is painful at 70kg 3x9.
> 
> fvcking annoying but hopefully it clear up. I’ll have to get some frozen peas or something. Any other advice on how to clear it up would be appreciated.


Your back pumps and issue sounds similar to mine. Long story short I was without my car for 4 weeks, felt great, first week back driving and the right side is once again a slight issue. Not sure if you spend a lot of hours in your car? Thought I'd mention.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Your back pumps and issue sounds similar to mine. Long story short I was without my car for 4 weeks, felt great, first week back driving and the right side is once again a slight issue. Not sure if you spend a lot of hours in your car? Thought I'd mention.


cheers for reply. I stand constantly for 8-10 hours with my job and also need to look down alot(chef).

i definitely Fvcked it when I did deadlift and then squats last week. But the constant standing along with heavy gym work is really doing a number on me.

Its pissing me off because I just want to lift.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> cheers for reply. I stand constantly for 8-10 hours with my job and also need to look down alot(chef).
> 
> i definitely Fvcked it when I did deadlift and then squats last week. But the constant standing along with heavy gym work is really doing a number on me.
> 
> Its pissing me off because I just want to lift.


Ahh right that makes sense then. 

I cannot recommend a foam roller and small physio ball enough. I spend a good amount of time daily using each to keep my issues at bay


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Ahh right that makes sense then.
> 
> I cannot recommend a foam roller and small physio ball enough. I spend a good amount of time daily using each to keep my issues at bay


I’m 100% getting those then, had a few people say about these but didn’t buy them. Nice one


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Oioi is right, foam rolling, hot soothing bath, plenty of sleep and recovery (light) exercise.

It looks like you have pulled a back muscle, it would be best to leave the Deadlift and Squats for now, you don't want to make it any worse. I know it's annoying but you can train around it. Progress seated leg extension, hamstring curls and calves (if your gym has this equipment), then use a seated leg press.

I've had a bad back, working on cars and lifting things you should have used a hoist. I think it is never the same again mate, but that is my experience. Cheers.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I can’t believe how different I feel since stopping the Winnie 50mg daily.

stopped two days ago and I feel back to normal. Got energy, feel like I can actually work, goto the gym and feel motivated.

my back pump was getting out of control, I had no energy, lethargic, my muscles hurt and aches doing literally anything, joints ached. I had headaches, felt off kilter(not dizzy, just the muscle pains and headaches made me feel off balance constantly) I was working and felt like I wanted to tell people to just leave and that i had to stop. Felt like I couldn’t continue. When I sat down I was done, couldn’t muster any more energy to do anything else.

but the first 3-4 weeks were amazing.

crazy how it affects people differently. I wonder who else felt that bad on Winnie.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

87.9kg this morning


----------



## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

You're like me mate just one of the unlucky ones who gets back pumps, though you lasted 6 weeks before they really set in and you've only tried one compound so there's hope for the future with something different.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Godwin said:


> You're like me mate just one of the unlucky ones who gets back pumps, though you lasted 6 weeks before they really set in and you've only tried one compound so there's hope for the future with something different.


indeed.

im definitely doing PCT whilst eating at maintenance, then a second cycle in September-December to build more muscle. Then in March/April next year going to do a cut to reveal the hard work. 

I’m thinking for all cycles to use test-e only, but may try something else if it’s worth it. I’m never going to be doing multiple compounds or huge amounts.


----------



## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> indeed.
> 
> im definitely doing PCT whilst eating at maintenance, then a second cycle in September-December to build more muscle. Then in March/April next year going to do a cut to reveal the hard work.
> 
> I’m thinking for all cycles to use test-e only, but may try something else if it’s worth it. I’m never going to be doing multiple compounds or huge amounts.


Test will serve you well mate it's the only one I do besides orals and all of them so far have given me back pumps. To be honest I am considering trying another compound but we'll see.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Godwin said:


> Test will serve you well mate it's the only one I do besides orals and all of them so far have given me back pumps. To be honest I am considering trying another compound but we'll see.


I genuinely think you can get an insane physique with test only. Unless you want to be an IFBB pro I don’t see the point of playing with your health more than you need to!


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I genuinely think you can get an insane physique with test only. Unless you want to be an IFBB pro I don’t see the point of playing with your health more than you need to!


But… More drugs more fun?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> But… More drugs more fun?


I’ve never been into drugs or drinking all the time. I go months without alcohol.
I can see why people would think that way though.

it’s also when people don’t get magical results, they think more is more, instead of actually giving it 2 years or so to build a physique. They want It yesterday.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Shoulders and legs today, stronger than last week, progressing nicely.

knocked barbell squats on the head until my back injury clears up.
The random spots I had on my body and top of my arse are clearing up since discontinuing winstrol use. 

Woke up early today, had breakfast, then went back to sleep until 2pm. Feeling lethargic today but still smashing it out.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Chest/triceps today

Back also feels a lot better. Can actually pick stuff up infront of me and sit up in bed without feeling like my backs going to pop 😂

Stronger than last Thursdays chest session too. Added a few reps on the bench.


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Chest/triceps today
> 
> Back also feels a lot better. Can actually pick stuff up infront of me and sit up in bed without feeling like my backs going to pop 😂
> 
> Stronger than last Thursdays chest session too. Added a few reps on the bench.


What are the stats atm?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> What are the stats atm?



5’8
88kg

Bench 80kg 3x11 ATM

Starting Seventh week of cycle.


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

What was your winny dose again?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> What was your winny dose again?


50mg daily for 6 weeks


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

I once tried winny And it gave me great endurance but a constant headache that wouldn't go away. Also started getting achey joints. Wouldn't personally use again


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

PaulNe said:


> I once tried winny And it gave me great endurance but a constant headache that wouldn't go away. Also started getting achey joints. Wouldn't personally use again


My back pumps were so bad and joints very achy. Definitely will not do it again.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Bit sh1tty being a tool on someone's jog


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Oioi said:


> Bit sh1tty being a tool on someone's jog


Init. Leave logs for proper discussion and keep the handbags for General Con. The lad only posted about being a newbie and being at 20% body fat a few weeks ago too. Best to get your head down and learn a thing or two rather than get into daft arguments at that stage.


----------



## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

Thread cleaned up.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Back/biceps today

mostly going up in weight on each exercise

biceps seem to have suffered slightly from stopping winstrol use. Not as much power.

Although I’m not bothered because either way I’ll be building muscle. Does hurt a tad though 😅


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Back/biceps today
> 
> mostly going up in weight on each exercise
> 
> ...


Granted your issues were legit but this bro science of dry joints imo gets used too frequently. I liked winstrol, great drug imo. I cycled big figures weekly with absolutely no issues joint wise. I'm not saying dry joints aren't a possibility but winny is disregarded almost instantly when I'd say that side is less common than the bros say. 

Shame the pumps wrote you off.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Granted your issues were legit but this bro science of dry joints imo gets used too frequently. I liked winstrol, great drug imo. I cycled big figures weekly with absolutely no issues joint wise. I'm not saying dry joints aren't a possibility but winny is disregarded almost instantly when I'd say that side is less common than the bros say.
> 
> Shame the pumps wrote you off.


person dependant isn’t it.

to be fair it felt great for the first 4 weeks or so. Just the last two weeks sides started to become apparent.

its all good, test-e is more than sufficient for me.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> 5’8
> 88kg
> 
> Bench 80kg 3x11 ATM
> ...


Your bench is exactly where I wanna be. Post up some pics bro I wanna see what that kinda physique looks like. My next goal ya know. Just blur your fave out.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

blood pressure today;

116/66

blood oxygen level; 96/97%


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Cold Biceps measurement today

16.25 inches flexed

Didn’t goto the gym today so completely cold measurement.

that’s up 0.75 inches since last measurement. Pretty decent.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Cold Biceps measurement today
> 
> 16.25 inches flexed
> 
> ...


Did you measure it before cycle? Any difference?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Did you measure it before cycle? Any difference?


at least two inches difference


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> at least two inches difference


Shit dude. Mine are like 13


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Shit dude. Mine are like 13


I’ve trained since I was 14. I lost alot of muscle over the past 2/3 years but I have actual muscle memory so I bounced back quickly + my diet and training are on point.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> todays photo.
> 
> View attachment 216259


Really bro? You're bigger than me for sure but I like the way I look better.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

feeling achy a lot recently. Lack of energy. Base of back still hurts when walking, finding it a bit taxing to walk to the gym(1/2 a mile) to be honest, when before it wasnt a problem.

Nipples are a bit tingly too.


could this be high oestrogen?


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> feeling achy a lot recently. Lack of energy. Base of back still hurts when walking, finding it a bit taxing to walk to the gym(1/2 a mile) to be honest, when before it wasnt a problem.
> 
> Nipples are a bit tingly too.
> 
> ...


Very well could be i found the same thing on some cycles with no AI, took small dose and felt better quite quickly. If possible bloods will tell you for sure though to avoid simply speculating.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> Very well could be i found the same thing on some cycles with no AI, took small dose and felt better quite quickly. If possible bloods will tell you for sure though to avoid simply speculating.


couple of weeks ago my oestrogen was 121 I think it was.


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Really bro? You're bigger than me for sure but I like the way I look better.


Aye because being skinny fat is better than having muscle and a bit fat isn't it mate


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Left nipple is buzzing today, feels bigger underneath the nipple. Right nipple fine. Strange how it’s only one side.. I’ll take some Arimidex and see how it progresses


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Left nipple is buzzing today, feels bigger underneath the nipple. Right nipple fine. Strange how it’s only one side.. I’ll take some Arimidex and see how it progresses


Maybe have some nolva on hand just in case. It's never a bad idea to have it in your arsenal


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Fvck off my journal. You’re not giving me advice.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Fvck off my journal. You’re not giving me advice.


Just tryna help out a fellow lifter. I don't know why we can't be friends. We're similar in some ways and different in others but why derail your own thread.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Just tryna help out a fellow lifter. I don't know why we can't be friends. We're similar in some ways and different in others but why derail your own thread.


You’re an alien creature, we have nothing in common. If you looked at the start of this journal, you’ll see I have Arimidex, Nolvadex, clomid, HCG.

I’m ready to go. Nolva is going to be used for PCT.

i think we even had a discussion on Aromasin v Arimidex for AI on cycle. Arimidex won, hence why I’ve got it over aromasin.

read it, you may learn something.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> You’re an alien creature, we have nothing in common. If you looked at the start of this journal, you’ll see I have Arimidex, Nolvadex, clomidI’m ready to go. Nolva is going to be used for PCT.
> 
> i think we even had a discussion on Aromasin v Arimidex for AI on cycle. Arimidex won, hence why I’ve got it over aromasin.
> 
> read it, you may learn something.


Okay fair enough


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Chest/tris today

bench up to 85kg 3x8. Could definitely get 1/2 more out with a spotter.

since I removed Winnie, I feel less powerful in the gym, although my strength is increasing.


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Chest/tris today
> 
> bench up to 85kg 3x8. Could definitely get 1/2 more out with a spotter.
> 
> since I removed Winnie, I feel less powerful in the gym, although my strength is increasing.


Moving those weights up mate, Keep it up


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Did you ever consider using T3 this cycle since it's a cut? Could have been a great addition (although I've never used it).


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> Moving those weights up mate, Keep it up


Cheers fella


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Did you ever consider using T3 this cycle since it's a cut? Could have been a great addition (although I've never used it).


I’m not cutting. If you can’t be bothered to read the journal don’t bother posting.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Took 0.5mg Arimidex today. Will do so every 3 days.

not sure if it’s placebo or what but my back pain is slightly better, less tingling in the nipple, I feel slightly less sluggish and feel much better.


----------



## Cronus (Jun 5, 2012)

Id **** Flat Bench off and replace with DB's. 

Prioritizing Incline BB and Flat DB's + Dips is all I have done now really for my chest, 2 sets of each and really helped improve that upper chest thickness


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Cronus said:


> Id **** Flat Bench off and replace with DB's.
> 
> Prioritizing Incline BB and Flat DB's + Dips is all I have done now really for my chest, 2 sets of each and really helped improve that upper chest thickness


Great chest dude!


----------



## Cronus (Jun 5, 2012)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Great chest dude!


Thanks you too


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Cronus said:


> Thanks you too


You must have been half asleep typing that! I have good delts for my size, but like, SLIGHTY above average. Nothing to write home about.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Cronus said:


> Id **** Flat Bench off and replace with DB's.
> 
> Prioritizing Incline BB and Flat DB's + Dips is all I have done now really for my chest, 2 sets of each and really helped improve that upper chest thickness


i do incline dumbbells at the moment. Everything progressing nicely so no need to ditch flat bench. Bit of an odd recommendation.


----------



## Cronus (Jun 5, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> i do incline dumbbells at the moment. Everything progressing nicely so no need to ditch flat bench. Bit of an odd recommendation.


Because flat bench is actually quite a technical movement and I se lots of guys do it without being to really engage their chest. You've got more of ability to bring in your shoulders and triceps more so then DB's and no one I seen has a lagging mid chest, hence making a incline a priority.

I see guys that can flat bench a good 20kg more than me and still don't have a developed chest.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Comparison photo of me at the end of a long calorie deficit to lose 24kg. Start of April 2022


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Definitely a big improvement mate, well done!


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

No gym today.

pain in my right rotator cuff from yesterdays shoulder workout. Fvcking painful when moving.
Also forearms hurt a bit from preacher curls.

strength still slowly increasing. Added another rep onto a few exercises and/or weight to the bar.


----------



## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

Might need to bleach my eyes after that pic! But good progress mate. Insults aside- being lazy and not wanting to go back through posts... Did you start this off as a cut or am I imagining that? Just wondering how long, calorie deficit, and did it make much difference (if you did). Ignore me if not.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> Might need to bleach my eyes after that pic! But good progress mate. Insults aside- being lazy and not wanting to go back through posts... Did you start this off as a cut or am I imagining that? Just wondering how long, calorie deficit, and did it make much difference (if you did). Ignore me if not.


i was about 98kg in October 2021. Did a calorie deficit until Xmas day and got down to 80kg. Came back from holiday where I put on 3kg and then went down to 74kg from February to April 2022. All that was natural, no fat loss supps, no PEDs(never took any prior either).

i was in a severe deficit, it was around 1300 calories a day. I wasn’t eating enough protein etc, I just wanted to get to a normal weight and not be fat anymore. I was losing 2kg a week most weeks. 

started my first cycle end of April 2022. On my 9th week now.


----------



## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

Thanks for reminding me. Keep up the good work. Will be quite a change by the end.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Full-speed said:


> Thanks for reminding me. Keep up the good work. Will be quite a change by the end.


planning on doing a second muscle building cycle in September/October this year. Then a cut in March/April 2023 to reveal the hard work. I’ll keep posting here unless I’m banned 😅


----------



## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

You might get banned for x-rated photos before you get banned for arguing 😄


----------



## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

Visible difference there that's a real confidence booster. I like the cheeky leg spread on the second photo mate.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

What do you weigh atm dude?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Godwin said:


> Visible difference there that's a real confidence booster. I like the cheeky leg spread on the second photo mate.


Spread the legs for the lads


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> What do you weigh atm dude?


around 90kg


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Added micronised Creatine 11.2g a day around a week ago. I’m not doing a loading phase.

The amount is 11.2g because of the dosage of each capsule from myprotein.

hopefully it’ll help with strength etc in the next couple of weeks, coming into the best phase of my first cycle. Start of my tenth week. Looking to add as much muscle as possible.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Looks like you've gained a good chunk of muscle mass so far this cycle.


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Massive difference. Keep doing what you're doing


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Cheers guys.

you’ll be shocked how different I’ll be this time next year


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Back shot from today;


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> This morning I’m currently up 3.3kg since last Tuesday(26/4/22).


It'll get peed back out just as quick


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> It'll get peed back out just as quick


Well I’m up 13kg now


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Well I’m up 13kg now


Just remember it though..the amount that panic when coming off that they're shrinking and losing muscle. Can easily pee out 5kg in a week when coming off🤣


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> Just remember it though..the amount that panic when coming off that they're shrinking and losing muscle. Can easily pee out 5kg in a week when coming off🤣


yeah I’m really not bothered about losing weight. I need to lose 15kg of fat anyway. All the muscle I’ve built is within my genetic limit so as long as my pct and diet is correct, I won’t be losing any muscle.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> yeah I’m really not bothered about losing weight. I need to lose 15kg of fat anyway. All the muscle I’ve built is within my genetic limit so as long as my pct and diet is correct, I won’t be losing any muscle.


I know. It's a mental thing. Hence why I'm saying it.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Good progress mate


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Gym tonight;

Chest and triceps;


Chest

Bench press 60kg 1x12(warm up) 85kg 3x10

Incline bench Dumbbells(15/30 degrees angle) 30kg 3x11

Dumbbell flys 20kg 3x12

Converging chest press(machine) 52kg 3x7

Pecdec 3x12 45kg



Triceps

Skull crusher dumbbell 32kg 3x12

Close grip bench press 50kg 3x10

Cable pull downs 12.5kg 3x15

numbers will differ as these were couple weeks ago reps/weight


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Definitely stronger.

bench press 85kg 2x11 1x9 (was 3x9)
Dumbbell incline bench 30kg 2x12 32kg 1x10 (was 30kg 3x10)
Dumbbell flys 20kg 3x12 (was 3x8)

big improvements from last Saturday


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Dont know why but I feel euphoric all of a sudden. Happy as Fvck. Still in the gym 😅😋


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Definitely stronger.
> 
> bench press 85kg 2x11 1x9 (was 3x9)
> Dumbbell incline bench 30kg 2x12 32kg 1x10 (was 30kg 3x10)
> ...


Bench is flying up mate, overtaken me just about fck i gotta work harder


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> Bench is flying up mate, overtaken me just about fck i gotta work harder


😂 my goal is to get to 100kg 3x8 but I don’t think I’ll make it this cycle.


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> 😂 my goal is to get to 100kg 3x8 but I don’t think I’ll make it this cycle.


Are you focusing the rest of your programming on getting the bench up too or just a little side goal? Sorry if you’ve mentioned before.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> Are you focusing the rest of your programming on getting the bench up too or just a little side goal? Sorry if you’ve mentioned before.


Just a side goal. My main goal is to increase muscle size.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Just a side goal. My main goal is to increase muscle size.


Eating surplus right?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Eating surplus right?


No I’m eating 1000 calorie deficit


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> No I’m eating 1000 calorie deficit


Can't tell if your serious? I've only been skimming through your last 3 pages or so


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Can't tell if your serious? I've only been skimming through your last 3 pages or so


Of course I’m in a surplus you nugget 😉😅


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

FYI

i had 4 wanks yesterday. I’m 33 years old. This cycle has made me 18 again 😂.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> FYI
> 
> i had 4 wanks yesterday. I’m 33 years old. This cycle has made me 18 again 😂.


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> FYI
> 
> i had 4 wanks yesterday. I’m 33 years old. This cycle has made me 18 again 😂.


Pictures of imperial leather will get off you more than any drug


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

PaulNe said:


> Pictures of imperial leather will get off you more than any drug


pictures of that rat will make my cock and balls retreat inside my body like I’m in the fvcking Antarctic.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Back biceps today

stronger all round.

fvcking hard though. Pushing hard in the gym then working 10 or so hours in the evening standing and stretching about constantly, my back is in so much pain 😅😩


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

chest and triceps again today, lower volume as it’s my second chest/tris of the week.

Didn’t have any coffee before I went and I felt nackered throughout the workout. Went to bed at about 2:30am last night too. Sleep plays such a huge role when you’re over 30. I could have done this in my twenties easily. Now it’s a real struggle.

energy very low, very tired and now in work, ill be finished around 11-12 this evening. I’ve necked a double espresso, will have another and push on through it.

eitner tomorrow or Sunday is shoulders day. Done 5 days in the gym again this week.

on my ninth week of my cycle now. I’m thinking of running it up until holiday in august, lowering the dose to 150mg for 8-10 weeks then going on another cycle on the run up to Christmas. If I don’t do this then I’d have to PCT then stay off any PEDs until after Xmas due to time constraints. Which will drive me insane as I have my goals in mind constantly.

im then thinking of doing pct in the new year. Giving my body plenty of time to recuperate and go from there.


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Welcome to the blast and cruise lifestyle mate. May the force be with you


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Another one joins the club.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

One of us, one of us


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Question;

Sex drive Is high, but I used to cum buckets and shoot it out at least Two metres. Now it’s thick and a bit shit. Shall I up the HCG or is there another way to get my erupting loads back?


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Question;
> 
> Sex drive Is high, but I used to cum buckets and shoot it out at least Two metres. Now it’s thick and a bit shit. Shall I up the HCG or is there another way to get my erupting loads back?


There was a porn star stack thread somewhere years back


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Welcome to the blasting a cruising club bro


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> Welcome to the blasting a cruising club bro


You are our inspiration. He will appreciate this comment more than any others


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’m not part of a blasting and cruising life. I’m just bridging because of a holiday I have in between. I’ll pct in the new year.

is there a way to block individuals from commenting on your journal? 😅


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Feeling very lethargic and tired most days now. Thinking it may be too high or too low oestrogen. Doing a venous blood test next week to see how everything is.
I’ve been raking Arimidex 0.5mg every 3 days. So could be that.
I’ll update with results when I have them.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Feeling very lethargic and tired most days now. Thinking it may be too high or too low oestrogen. Doing a venous blood test next week to see how everything is.
> I’ve been raking Arimidex 0.5mg every 3 days. So could be that.
> I’ll update with results when I have them.


0.5mg Arimidex does sound like too much for 300 test. I need that much for 250mg test, but my anti-psychotics and anti-depressants cause increased estrogen conversion.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Are you still taking Winstrol or was that for the first 4-6 weeks only?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Update;

i had a shot of espresso before the gym, I had a great workout and my biceps have jumped up in strength significantly after struggling a bit for two weeks.
Feel full of energy and the bicep pump is insane today.

good end to the day after feeling like shit earlier.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Update;
> 
> i had a shot of espresso before the gym, I had a great workout and my biceps have jumped up in strength significantly after struggling a bit for two weeks.
> Feel full of energy and the bicep pump is insane today.
> ...


Well timed caffeine can get me through almost any activity I've found. Very valuable tool


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

i have quite a few spots on my back, in random places and under my chest/at the top of my stomach. It’s not bad or anything but still noticeable and annoying. Is there any way of reducing this from occurring? Considering I’m only on 450mg of test-e a week taken Monday/Thursday. Could my next cycle be lower test-e and another compound for example?
Cheers


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Planning for the bridge I’m going to do between this cycle and my next.

I need to lose body fat. So I’m going to change my diet and get rid of as much fat as possible in 8-10 weeks(however long i decide to bridge between cycles). And utilise the high normal test levels I’ll have to hold onto the muscle whilst doing so.
I’m about 25% BF at the moment and it’s got to go, it’s really ridiculous and can’t stay like this for much longer.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> i have quite a few spots on my back, in random places and under my chest/at the top of my stomach. It’s not bad or anything but still noticeable and annoying. Is there any way of reducing this from occurring? Considering I’m only on 450mg of test-e a week taken Monday/Thursday. Could my next cycle be lower test-e and another compound for example?
> Cheers


Bloods will give you a better idea. Possibly E2 related. Could be the same reason you’ve been feeling lethargic recently. Scrubbing with Nizoral shampoo can be good to combat a mild acne flare up. I can’t remember the science behind it but I’ve done it in the past and it definitely helped.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Planning for the bridge I’m going to do between this cycle and my next.
> 
> I need to lose body fat. So I’m going to change my diet and get rid of as much fat as possible in 8-10 weeks(however long i decide to bridge between cycles). And utilise the high normal test levels I’ll have to hold onto the muscle whilst doing so.
> I’m about 25% BF at the moment and it’s got to go, it’s really ridiculous and can’t stay like this for much longer.


It sucks when you used to have an eight pack and then get fat and don't feel the same. I have an 8 pack under 20% bf


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Planning for the bridge I’m going to do between this cycle and my next.
> 
> I need to lose body fat. So I’m going to change my diet and get rid of as much fat as possible in 8-10 weeks(however long i decide to bridge between cycles). And utilise the high normal test levels I’ll have to hold onto the muscle whilst doing so.
> I’m about 25% BF at the moment and it’s got to go, it’s really ridiculous and can’t stay like this for much longer.


I'm planning similar on DLTBB advice, bulk on cycle, trim down on cruise. You seem fine cutting so you should be in a good position to steadily bulk after. 

I do agree, 25% isn't something you want for long. 

How long left on this cycle dude?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> I'm planning similar on DLTBB advice, bulk on cycle, trim down on cruise. You seem fine cutting so you should be in a good position to steadily bulk after.
> 
> I do agree, 25% isn't something you want for long.
> 
> How long left on this cycle dude?


I’m finishing my 8th week today. I’ll go up to 21st of august so 16 weeks in total. 8 weeks left to go.

Ill give myself 8 weeks to cut some fat. Ill be happy to lose 5-8% BF and then put on some major muscle going into Xmas. Then March or so next year cut to sub 15% BF. Should be looking freaky by this time next year then.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Today I’m 88.5kg. So scales not changing the last couple of weeks. I’d be happy if I could magically lose some fat and build some muscle simultaneously but instead I’ll look at my diet and adjust the calories upwards if needed.
Strength still improving but I didn’t take into account 5 days a week in the gym, only 3.

it’ll be easy to up the calories, changing from 0% fat yoghurt to normal fat yoghurt for example.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Today I’m 88.5kg. So scales not changing the last couple of weeks. I’d be happy if I could magically lose some fat and build some muscle simultaneously but instead I’ll look at my diet and adjust the calories upwards if needed.
> Strength still improving but I didn’t take into account 5 days a week in the gym, only 3.
> 
> it’ll be easy to up the calories, changing from 0% fat yoghurt to normal fat yoghurt for example.


How tall r u mate?


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Imperitive.Intel said:


> How tall r u mate?


5’8. You keep asking questions that can be answered if you read this journal.


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Look at the instructions for the blood test.

no weights or protein rich meals 48 hours before the blood test. NO EJACULATION. 48 hours before. FFS I may as well get a refund😅


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Just got to the gym for chest/tris

I can’t really do anything else to start but bench press.

Got four Asian young lads wearing lifting belts doing one rep maxes. Shouting 3,2,1 UPPPP. dropping weights off the ends of the bar. Said they’ll be ages. Zero % accountability for Their actions or understanding of how people perceive them. Basically it’s always the same kind of people and everyone thinks they’re cvnts.

is it just me or should people like this be banned from public gyms.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Just got to the gym for chest/tris
> 
> I can’t really do anything else to start but bench press.
> 
> ...


My gyms full of those idiots. The turbo "ssssssstt" noise idiots while they bounce the var off their chest followed by some worm motion


----------



## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> My gyms full of those idiots. The turbo "ssssssstt" noise idiots while they bounce the var off their chest followed by some worm motion


Thing is, they’re doing 85kg 1RM. What’s the point. They’re literally just ego lifting and not training at all 😂
Why’s it always the same kind of people too?


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Thing is, they’re doing 85kg 1RM. What’s the point. They’re literally just ego lifting and not training at all 😂
> Why’s it always the same kind of people too?


Should see my puregym if you think 85kg and screaming is bad 😂 group of kids gathered screaming over 60kg is simply the norm


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Thing is, they’re doing 85kg 1RM. What’s the point. They’re literally just ego lifting and not training at all 😂
> Why’s it always the same kind of people too?


The same guys who'll try to curl the 40kg ez bar using their entire body, or the cvnts that chest press db's with a 2" rom then slam the weights down


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Guy did 110kg, took him 30 seconds to get the bar up. They were all screaming after hugging.

Fvck me it’s like a YouTube video, cringe as Fvck they literally don’t care about anyone else 😅


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Bench press is up

last Friday;

85kg 3x10
5 minute breaks in between sets

today;

90kg 3x8
3 minute breaks in between sets

training Chest twice a week is really paying off.

maybe I can hit the big milestone by end of cycle. 100kg 3x8


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Got this feeling of buzzing starting from my bum hole and running all the way up the base of my shaft, all around my balls and to the tip of my cock, then all over my bellend.

fvcking painful being in the gym with all the girls walking about, I just want to whap my wanger out and shove it inside every.single.one of them.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> *Got this feeling of buzzing starting from my bum hole and running all the way up the base of my shaft, all around my balls and to the tip of my cock, then all over my bellend.*
> 
> fvcking painful being in the gym with all the girls walking about, I just want to whap my wanger out and shove it inside every.single.one of them.


That was very, erm, descriptive.

No hard feelings over the earlier scuffle ✌🏻


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Vic90 said:


> That was very, erm, descriptive.
> 
> No hard feelings over the earlier scuffle ✌🏻


Knew you’d like it mate.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Knew you’d like it mate.


It was very homoerotic! Unfortunately for all the gay men out there, for me thinking of a man's bumhole is like thinking of dead puppies.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Vic90 said:


> It was very homoerotic! Unfortunately for all the gay men out there, for me thinking of a man's bumhole is like thinking of dead puppies.


What about a hard, throbbing bell end? 🔔


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

3x12 pull ups easy now, was 3x9 last week.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Completely annihilated my forearms on back, so much so that I couldn’t complete my biceps exercises. Couldn’t even lift light without my forearms burning with pain on the outsides.

killer.

Definitely stronger though and I’ll take a day off tomorrow to give them a chance to heal. Then legs on Thursday.

started using straps for dumbbell rows, will do the same for lat pull downs in future As I felt the forearms going at that point. I’m stronger and having less rest between sets which I didn’t realise would Fvck my forearms this much.

learn something new every day.

My tendons need to catch up with my muscular growth.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

When I was in the gym a few months back, no one looked at me. Now, I walk into the gym and guys look at me for prolonged periods.

i remember the feeling from a few years back when I was in good shape.

also some guys try to strike up conversations with me/more easily talk to me then before.

i find it funny to be honest.

i don’t even look good, but maybe Im perceived as bigger by others, relative to how big I think I am in my own head.

I’m also about to buy XL tops when I was wearing XS and S. the arms are so tight on all my clothes 😅


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> When I was in the gym a few months back, no one looked at me. Now, I walk into the gym and guys look at me for prolonged periods.
> 
> i remember the feeling from a few years back when I was in good shape.
> 
> ...


Sometimes when I can see a guy out the corner of my eye having a good stare I quickly turn round and lock eyes just to see them flap around pretending like they weren't watching 😂


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Sometimes when I can see a guy out the corner of my eye having a good stare I quickly turn round and lock eyes just to see them flap around pretending like they weren't watching 😂


😂 That happens to me but when I’m staring at women. This cycles got me frothing at the mouth


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## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> When I was in the gym a few months back, no one looked at me. Now, I walk into the gym and guys look at me for prolonged periods.
> 
> i remember the feeling from a few years back when I was in good shape.
> 
> ...


People will treat you with More respect when you're bigger. It's a shitty fact but a still a fact. Something I noticed when I first started getting serious about lifting. I like to think I treat everyone the same. I'm an arsehole no matter how big or small you are


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

PaulNe said:


> People will treat you with More respect when you're bigger. It's a shitty fact but a still a fact. Something I noticed when I first started getting serious about lifting. I like to think I treat everyone the same. I'm an arsehole no matter how big or small you are


One guy said I’ve got huge arms(they’re only 16.75 inches when flexed) another asked if I play rugby. Lol


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## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> One guy said I’ve got huge arms(they’re only 16.75 inches when flexed) another asked if I play rugby. Lol


I remember my first compliment I got years ago when I did my first bulk and then cut as a natty. I was told I look skinny but muscular by a girl I worked with. Never knew how to take that comment haha but as I got bigger and bigger I had more blokes comment on the size of my chest or ask me the generic how much do you bench. They treat you differently


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## Full-speed (10 mo ago)

Got a compliment on the size of my pecs by a couple of female friends the other day out of the blue. Nothing like that has ever happened before. Really motivates me to keep at it (working out and taking the roids!)


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Ye haven't seen a few mates in a while and they all said something instantly. Felt guuuuud mayn


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> One guy said I’ve got huge arms(they’re only 16.75 inches when flexed) another asked if I play rugby. Lol


The rugby comments always seem to come from older folks I've found funny that.


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## Todai (Jul 18, 2010)

PaulNe said:


> People will treat you with More respect when you're bigger. It's a shitty fact but a still a fact. Something I noticed when I first started getting serious about lifting. I like to think I treat everyone the same. I'm an arsehole no matter how big or small you are


One of my favourite things to do after “ you don’t look like your on steroids anyways so I believe you” is to say “ you finished with that wee man” 😂😂


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Godwin said:


> The rugby comments always seem to come from older folks I've found funny that.


Was a 30 something black Nigerian bloke actually, full of backne but quite hench.


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Was a 30 something black Nigerian bloke actually, full of backne but quite hench.


Regarding the backne make sure you keep on top of your breakout try that shampoo that got reccomended. It only gets worse in my experience.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Taken two days off the gym. Let my body recuperate. Well needed.

will still do 4/5 sessions this week(done 2 already).

Amazingly enough, all the idiots who say with steroids you can train 24/7 and recover instantly are talking shite. Still takes a similar amount of time to being natural.


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Taken two days off the gym. Let my body recuperate. Well needed.
> 
> will still do 4/5 sessions this week(done 2 already).
> 
> Amazingly enough, all the idiots who say with steroids you can train 24/7 and recover instantly are talking shite. Still takes a similar amount of time to being natural.


I remember my first cycle feeling invincible training 2x a day some days 7 days a week  

Just because i wasnt overly sore meant i was recovered right!


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Alex12340 said:


> I remember my first cycle feeling invincible training 2x a day some days 7 days a week
> 
> Just because i wasnt overly sore meant i was recovered right!


i trained my back so hard the other day doing two different lat pull downs, pull ups, assisted pull ups that my forearms gave in when I tried to do my biceps. Literally couldn’t even lift light on the preacher curl bar.

i knew I needed a couple of days off at that point 😅


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## Cronus (Jun 5, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Taken two days off the gym. Let my body recuperate. Well needed.
> 
> will still do 4/5 sessions this week(done 2 already).
> 
> Amazingly enough, all the idiots who say with steroids you can train 24/7 and recover instantly are talking shite. Still takes a similar amount of time to being natural.


Alot of its age too I think. In my 20s I could smash ppl 6 days a week no problem. I'd struggle to do that now. Ultimately training experience means you're be training more efficiently too, so much better at recruiting the muscle. Anything more than 8 sets per session for a major body part becomes unproductive for me now


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Cronus said:


> Alot of its age too I think. In my 20s I could smash ppl 6 days a week no problem. I'd struggle to do that now. Ultimately training experience means you're be training more efficiently too, so much better at recruiting the muscle. Anything more than 8 sets per session for a major body part becomes unproductive for me now


yeah definitely. Although I do think my tendons are lagging behind my rapid muscle growth, which would have been a problem at any age. Tennis elbow basically.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I’m feeling tired a lot, sleepy, like I’ve just woken up, achy, bass of back always hurting etc. Is this from test-e, HCG or Arimidex? I need to get rid of this feeling because it’s killing my productivity and I feel like shit with it.


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> yeah definitely. Although I do think my tendons are lagging behind my rapid muscle growth, which would have been a problem at any age. Tennis elbow basically.


Tread carefully dude, I've been fighting tendonitis on and off for almost 4 years. Don't let it get too bad.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Oioi said:


> Tread carefully dude, I've been fighting tendonitis on and off for almost 4 years. Don't let it get too bad.


Taken three days off the gym as a precaution.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I’m feeling tired a lot, sleepy, like I’ve just woken up, achy, bass of back always hurting etc. Is this from test-e, HCG or Arimidex? I need to get rid of this feeling because it’s killing my productivity and I feel like shit with it.


I feel like this when my e2 is off. Sounds like yours might be too low. Usually accompanied by cramps and muscle spasms.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Vic90 said:


> I feel like this when my e2 is off. Sounds like yours might be too low. Usually accompanied by cramps and muscle spasms.


I’ll stop the Arimidex for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.


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## Cronus (Jun 5, 2012)

Have you had a deload or active break since starting? 

I take 4-5 days off every 4-6 weeks, regardless if I still think I can push further.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Cronus said:


> Have you had a deload or active break since starting?
> 
> I take 4-5 days off every 4-6 weeks, regardless if I still think I can push further.


Just done three days off the gym.

didn’t feel like this last year doing 6x days gym a week in a steep deficit though.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Back after a 6 day break from the gym.

bench was; 90kg 3x8

today; 90kg 3x9

i kept eating consistently through the off days.

should be hitting 100kg for reps easy by end of this cycle. Let’s go!


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Just done three days off the gym.
> 
> didn’t feel like this last year doing 6x days gym a week in a steep deficit though.


You'll be training at a completely different intensity compared to last year now you're using PEDs. You're lifting weights/reps you've never lifted before week on week. It'll be more taxing. That and you've now got other things to worry about like controlling your E2.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

DLTBB said:


> You'll be training at a completely different intensity compared to last year now you're using PEDs. You're lifting weights/reps you've never lifted before week on week. It'll be more taxing. That and you've now got other things to worry about like controlling your E2.


Yeah you’re right. I’m not even noticing it. Sometimes it’s hard to look from a third person perspective.

the days off did me good. And I’m stronger too.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Around 7-8pm this evening, fatigue and flu like symptoms hit me. Lower back and both ventrogluteal sites are in pain and I can’t move my legs well or bend down well. Felt like I needed to fall asleep, nackered.

happening often now. I’m getting a blood test done very soon so hopefully I can get the better of this. It’s pissing me off as I work primarily in evenings and that’s when it tends to hit!


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Feel shitty still today. Got pip which fvcking kills to be honest. Feel flu like symptoms, tired.

are these needles too big/causing pip which then leads to these flu like symptoms?

I’ve been using the green 21g x 1 1/2 for intra muscular.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Feel shitty still today. Got pip which fvcking kills to be honest. Feel flu like symptoms, tired.
> 
> are these needles too big/causing pip which then leads to these flu like symptoms?
> 
> ...


Nah, although 21G is like shoving a drain pipe into your muscle which will cause more pip.

Could it be that you're just overworked and exhausted, and that you could have picked up a virus? Unusual to suddenly get this from your cycle if you haven't had any issues so far and nothing else has changed.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Vic90 said:


> Nah, although 21G is like shoving a drain pipe into your muscle which will cause more pip.
> 
> Could it be that you're just overworked and exhausted, and that you could have picked up a virus? Unusual to suddenly get this from your cycle if you haven't had any issues so far and nothing else has changed.


i just took 6 days off the gym, never been overworked before and I’ve always worked a lot. The only difference is I’m on PEDs.

i stopped talking Hcg and arimidex the other day to see if those were causing it and I only seem worse now.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

My leg is swollen at the injection site so that’s probably giving me the symptoms. That and my oestrogen is either too high or too low(blood test next Tuesday to find out).

Im going to change to these needles below for IM injection. To be fair the ones I have now are like harpoons. I’ll also change injection site to quads.


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

You've been doing yourself with the greens this whole time mate? I'm surprised you haven't got bad pip up until now.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

I read it as he’s been drawing with the greens and pinning with the blues which is pretty normal. Have you changed labs or ester or vial recently prior to getting the PIP and flu symptoms?


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Godwin said:


> You've been doing yourself with the greens this whole time mate? I'm surprised you haven't got bad pip up until now.


Yes greens to pin. I did get flu symptoms back in the second/third week but not this bad.

blues are for my sub Q injections sorry.

i stopped HCG a few days ago and my nuts ache and have shrunk. Maybe time to get back on it 🤦🏼‍♂️


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

DLTBB said:


> I read it as he’s been drawing with the greens and pinning with the blues which is pretty normal. Have you changed labs or ester or vial recently prior to getting the PIP and flu symptoms?


Sorry greens to do both and blue was sub q


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## TheGodHimself (6 mo ago)

Naaaah using greens to pin? Jesus. I'm a huge fan of 27g 5/8" for anything under 1ml and 25 1 inch for anything over that. Totally up to yourself and what works best for you, just order 10 of a few different ones and see which is best for you. 27g 5/8" is more than enough to hit IM for me at 15% bf roughly.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Sorry greens to do both and blue was sub q


Oh yeah they’re a bit bigger and thicker than necessary. I’ve used them before when I’ve had none left but the blue or orange ones will be much better.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

TheGodHimself said:


> Naaaah using greens to pin? Jesus. I'm a huge fan of 27g 5/8" for anything under 1ml and 25 1 inch for anything over that. Totally up to yourself and what works best for you, just order 10 of a few different ones and see which is best for you. 27g 5/8" is more than enough to hit IM for me at 15% bf roughly.


Cheers


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

DLTBB said:


> Oh yeah they’re a bit bigger and thicker than necessary. I’ve used them before when I’ve had none left but the blue or orange ones will be much better.


Thanks for the advice, much appreciated, I ordered the oranges, I’ll also change sites, should help a lot.


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## TheGodHimself (6 mo ago)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Thanks for the advice, much appreciated, I ordered the oranges, I’ll also change sites, should help a lot.


I've personally only ever used long esters and pinned my quads. No scar tissue with the 7 days break inbetween (twice a week for me) and seems to be okay.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

TheGodHimself said:


> I've personally only ever used long esters and pinned my quads. No scar tissue with the 7 days break inbetween (twice a week for me) and seems to be okay.


Quads was my preference, I’ll go for it tomorrow, might have to be with the blues until my oranges turn up but better than the greens at least


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> i just took 6 days off the gym, never been overworked before and I’ve always worked a lot. The only difference is I’m on PEDs.
> 
> i stopped talking Hcg and arimidex the other day to see if those were causing it and I only seem worse now.


Sounds like a bad injection going off your other post. Should clear up soon. 

Fwiw I've injected with greens before like @DLTBB when running out of everything else but blues and oranges seem to be ideal now, the smaller the gauge the less potential scar tissue etc.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Vic90 said:


> Sounds like a bad injection going off your other post. Should clear up soon.
> 
> Fwiw I've injected with greens before like @DLTBB when running out of everything else but blues and oranges seem to be ideal now, the smaller the gauge the less potential scar tissue etc.


Strange how an injection can make you feel so much like shit. Must be an immune response to perceived foreign bodies or something similar.

Im feeling slightly better again today. Injection site feels like I’ve been given a dead leg still.

Will be in the gym again today, back and biceps.

Onward and upward.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> Strange how an injection can make you feel so much like shit. Must be an immune response to perceived foreign bodies or something similar.
> 
> Im feeling slightly better again today. Injection site feels like I’ve been given a dead leg still.
> 
> ...


I've had that feeling overcome me pretty much immediately once. It was the first shot of a test/mast/deca cycle and pretty much straight away I felt the urge to throw up and felt like I had flu. Lasted a few days and cleared up, there was zero pip at the site. It was bizarre.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

Vic90 said:


> I've had that feeling overcome me pretty much immediately once. It was the first shot of a test/mast/deca cycle and pretty much straight away I felt the urge to throw up and felt like I had flu. Lasted a few days and cleared up, there was zero pip at the site. It was bizarre.


I’ve got a golf ball sized swelling now too, fvcking annoying 😅


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I did my right ventroglute today as I saw a few people saying not to inject quads. Scared me off a bit.

I used the blues today and it went in so easily. didn’t feel a thing. It stings a bit now though. Hopefully it’s all good.

The greens were like putting a harpoon into my muscle.

oranges will be even easier so looking forward to getting those.


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## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> I did my right ventroglute today as I saw a few people saying not to inject quads. Scared me off a bit.
> 
> I used the blues today and it went in so easily. didn’t feel a thing. It stings a bit now though. Hopefully it’s all good.
> 
> ...


Oranges and higher are smooth like butter, i normally use blues myself.


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

There does seem to be a compromise sometimes with oranges if your pinning a reasonable amount of oil. The fact the oil moves so slowly can lead to more unintentional movement.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

Oioi said:


> There does seem to be a compromise sometimes with oranges if your pinning a reasonable amount of oil. The fact the oil moves so slowly can lead to more unintentional movement.


Wife does it for me so I can just blame her


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

I was doing 27.5kg preacher curls 3x12 two weeks now.

now struggling with that weight and only got 4 out.

as my backs getting stronger, my forearms and grip are getting worn out before I jump onto biceps, making it incredibly difficult to lift heavy.

frustrating.

Also feeling really sick and Ill from the bad injection but still going for it as hard as I can.

The one thing I wish I could get rid of is the lower back pain and lethargy. Hopefully the blood test next week will give me the key to solving those issues.


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## 134633 (10 mo ago)

100% need to do a cut after this cycle. I thought I’d build muscle until next year but I can’t go on much longer eating this much and carrying this much fat. Uncomfortable and bloated, hate it.


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

JohnnyBiggerton1986 said:


> 100% need to do a cut after this cycle. I thought I’d build muscle until next year but I can’t go on much longer eating this much and carrying this much fat. Uncomfortable and bloated, hate it.


I also hate carrying extra fat. Even when on a surplus (hate the term bulking) I try and stay lean. My avi is about as high as I let my bodyfat go. Might take longer to grow but it works for me.


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Anything north of 15% and I'm grumbling about it


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

Member requested to leave so thread closed.


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