# Fighters And Steroids



## SteSteez (Jul 21, 2007)

Do you agree with fighters taking banned substances under athletic commision?

Should fighters be allowed to take anything to enhance their performance legally?

Which fighters do you think are currently taking steroids?

We know guys like Wanderlei Silva have taken steroids in the past when in Pride but I have my doubts as to if hes taking courses whilst in the UFC.

Thiago Alves is a name that springs to mind for me, aswel as the canadia golden child GSP.

Myself i'm very liberal and if they want to do it they should be allowed to, same opinion on all drugs really... But what about the athletes that wish to remain clean? they'll just get destroyed unless genetically gifted beyond means.

So i'm for athletes who wish to do steroids going into promotions that allow steroids, and those who wish to remain clean going into promotions such as UFC that do random testing, this way those on the roids can fight those on the roids.. these organisations may put on better fights though with the UFc losing out.


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## Yetiman (Feb 9, 2008)

Let people take them who want to take them, and fight who ever they want to fight. Tiger woods has had an operation done on his eye to give him better vision and depth perception than anyone can naturally. People dont go to arms calling him a cheat.

People will always use and a lot that fight do use to get bigger,faster stronger.... Actually that is a good programme/film on steroid use in sport. A lot of people depending on the AAS they use get bad pumps, now your telling me that on the old AAS during a fight you pump up that its going to benifit you? Its not. Yes AAS can help recovery time and what not but take it if you want to, dont if you dont.


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## djkt (Oct 8, 2008)

hmm i see where ur coming from, but if they are allowed it means all the fighers who dont take them have a dissadvantage under those who do, at the end of the day it sends a bad message out to all the younger UFC fans who will end up thinking taking steroids is safe.

even Laben him self said

â€œIâ€™ve really done everything I can to turn my life around, and this is a huge setback for me, but it is something I will have to deal with. During my time off from fighting, I want to speak to kids about the dangers of using performance enhancing agents and let them know it just doesnâ€™t get you ahead in life. Of course this is a hard hit for me monetarily, but more so this is embarrassing for me and for all of my fans. I apologize to the UFC and everyone who supported me in my fight in England. I hope to work through this and get back to fighting soon.â€

i think if fighters want to take them then they do so at there own risk and if they get banned then its there fault. lets keep the sport clean, just like every other well respected sport.

what kind of light is cast on MMA if MMA is one of the only sports where steroid use is allowed?


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

djkt said:


> hmm i see where ur coming from, but if they are allowed it means all the fighers who dont take them have a dissadvantage under those who do, at the end of the day it sends a bad message out to all the younger UFC fans who will end up thinking taking steroids is safe.
> 
> even Laben him self said
> 
> ...


No sport is clean from steroid users, i bet the united kingdom's top chess player has the occasional dabble of the deca 

IMO if an athlete wants to do them then there going to do them, everyone wants an edge and a lot of people see Anabolic steroids as the answer to giving them the edge...a lot of the side effects really are blown out of proportions Yeti mentioned Bigger, faster, stronger i linked it a while ago on here somehwere really good documnetary if you get the chance to see it

I dont agree with Athletes using AAS but then i dont really disagree i can see why they would do it, if they get caught though they need to hold there hands up and say yep i did it, and take the punishment rather than blaming it on cough tablets or something.....

Whos on gear in the UFC?? Dont know Alves does spring to mind although he could just be a genetic freak one thing that will pack mass on you is GH (growth hormone) which is a lot harder to detect


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## Yetiman (Feb 9, 2008)

To be fair though, people are fighting people that use AAS. So if you put all the cards on the table and allow anyone to take it then they have the option of taking it them selfs. Or they have a choice not to. Either way people will use in the sport, right or wrong it would just make it a fairer playing ground.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

No.. simple. I hope every dude that takes drugs to gain an advantage gets caught.It aint fair. Its cheating.

Im with BJ, i hope the dude that cheats , gets battered.

Unfortunately, it just aint as simple as that though is it. I take protien, bcaa', creatine. I know as we all do that protien will aid muscle growth etc. I know that creatine for me works fantastically well. I also know that some of the guys that i fight take nothing. I usually beat them. Am i cheating? I dont know really. I am always at least 10 yrs older than any one i fight, maybe its just making thing's equal?

In reality, we all know what cheating is. We all know that every single aspect of an athelete's diet cannot be checked and controlled. So certain supps are allowed.

In reallity we all know that steroids, HGH etc is cheating. We have to be mature about this. I wouldnt want my son taking all the shit ive taken over the yrs. I dont want him in a fight with some guy in the future that has been jackin up on the latest super drug. I want a fair fight.

Mind body and skill is surely what we and the fighter's want to see.

Any one that says" have a seperate promo for bin heads and a promo for natural atheletes" is livin in a dream world. What sponser would throw their money at a dude that is openly taking drugs. It just aint gonna happen.

MMA has to be clean. MMa has to test every fighter. MMa should seriously think about banning any fighter caught taking drugs for a long long time.

Once again im with Bj.smash the mofo's.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

That was far too serious. I dont do serious very often, so would like to give a big HAI YAAAA ya ding bats. :growl::baffled::shocked: 

Just to even it out a little.


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## djkt (Oct 8, 2008)

marc said:


> No sport is clean from steroid users


 sorry my bad was meaning that steriods are banned in most major sports so y should mma be any different


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

Watched"Bigger, Stronger, Faster" the other day, great insight into steroids and some good arguments both for and against. Can you ever really say that anything doesn't give and edge if the other guy doesn't use.. Have to say I've been tempted and may do it as I get older adn training gets harder. I'm not going to compete after all.


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## maddog21 (Oct 26, 2008)

personel opinion when competing i.e pro/semipro/am m.m.a then no they shldnt make them legal however outside of competition its should be personel choice as the only person you are cheating is yourself.

as for creatine (excuse the poor spelling plz lol) and other legal substances they are legal for a reson ok yes they do aid in muscle growth etc but not as drasticaly as AAS and other forms of banned steds and cems and they are there realy to help us "hardgainers" compete which in my eyes is ok whoever decides to take them or not like with whey powders etc and the only way we would ever have a 100% fair playing feild is if they banned any and all kinds of cems, steds, powders and so on that way it would be man on man with no added extras or little cem help here n there.

but as we all know sum1 sumwhere will cheat ity just a fact and yeh they shld atleast have the balls to admit it when they get caught and take there puinishment like leban has


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## SteSteez (Jul 21, 2007)

spitfire said:


> No.. simple. I hope every dude that takes drugs to
> 
> MMA has to be clean. MMa has to test every fighter. MMa should seriously think about banning any fighter caught taking drugs for a long long time.


With MMA being a sport and The UFC having such a stronghold on the sport this is where the problem arises.... If UFC go ahead and life-ban the fighters they have spent millions of dollars in promoting these athletes, the athletes either wll just go to another promotion (unless its a athletic commision ban)

Chris has been given what a 9 month ban? sorry but my retarded ass sees this ban as being completely pointless as after this defeat wouldn't he be doing nothing for 9mths anyway?

so the ban is pointless.

The bans need to be harder but The UFC won't condone this due to them putting heavy amounts of promotion into their contract signed athletes.

i love watching the UFC, they post profits and pay their fighters good money in comparison with other promotions however they have too much of a control over the sport in my opinion.

there needs to be a fully recognised governing body like FIFA in football, i know there is WAMMA but if the fertitta brothers put out their spag bolognese on the table WAMMA would lick it all up.


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## Cha$e (Dec 11, 2007)

I dont support or condone the use of steroids or performance enhancing drugs in any sport and therefore think they should not be allowed and poeple punished accordingly if caught but i accpet the fact there will alwats be people testing the boundries with it in any sport.


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## DROGO (Nov 2, 2008)

how many of u on here would or have taken them?


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## Cha$e (Dec 11, 2007)

DROGO said:


> how many of u on here would or have taken them?


Can say i wouldn't as i know i can make weight myself without having to use anything illegal. With the amount of legal supplements out there to aid with fat burning and metabolizing he took the easy way out.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

Ive taken prohormones when i was about 18 didnt have a clue what they where someone just said 'they make ya big' so i took a months course, got exactly the same side effects as i would have with taking a course of gear, low test levels, acne back ache lasted about 2 months after it was horrible, that being said a lot of side effects occur when people havent got a clue what there doing and just take something...i have a question though

Creatine is a naturally occuring substance made predominatly in the liver and ends up being stored in skeletal muscle and is legal for anyone including athletes

Testosterone is a Hormone made in the Testes and is illegal to use (for an athlete)

So if these are both natural substances made in the body why is one illegal and one isnt?


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## Yetiman (Feb 9, 2008)

maddog21 said:


> personel opinion when competing i.e pro/semipro/am m.m.a then no they shldnt make them legal however outside of competition its should be personel choice as *the only person you are cheating is yourself.*


Sorry I did not read all your post, I got as far as the bold in the above. How is it cheating?


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

SteSteez said:


> With MMA being a sport and The UFC having such a stronghold on the sport this is where the problem arises.... If UFC go ahead and life-ban the fighters they have spent millions of dollars in promoting these athletes, the athletes either wll just go to another promotion (unless its a athletic commision ban)
> 
> Chris has been given what a 9 month ban? sorry but my retarded ass sees this ban as being completely pointless as after this defeat wouldn't he be doing nothing for 9mths anyway?
> 
> ...


yeh. i Agree. It's a conumdrum indeed.

The sport will evolve thought. As it gets bigger, the media will scutinise it more. Then thing's will have to be done as sponsors will not stay when the dirt starts to fly.

Fighter's need to be able to move between promotion's. Which i think will happen in the future.A gov body will be formed then promotions will have to come in to line.


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## maddog21 (Oct 26, 2008)

Yetiman said:


> Sorry I did not read all your post, I got as far as the bold in the above. How is it cheating?


well by pumping yourself full of gear your not realy gaining all the muscle yourself your taking a short cut and in the end you will know that all the muscle etc isnt a result of hard work and determanation so yeh your cheating yourself out of the proudness of knowing you worked hard for it with out any shortcuts but thts just my personel opinion and yeh there are people who wouldnt think that way but i know i would hence i wont ever use them ( unless there is a medical reason y i would need to lol)


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## djkt (Oct 8, 2008)

maddog21 said:


> you will know that all the muscle etc isnt a result of hard work and determanation so yeh your cheating yourself


to be honest it still takes some pretty hard work in the gym othewise there'd be no point takin em. dont know why im deffending lol as im aginst em 2


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## Yetiman (Feb 9, 2008)

maddog21 said:


> well by pumping yourself full of gear your not realy gaining all the muscle yourself your taking a short cut and in the end you will know that all the muscle etc isnt a result of hard work and determanation so yeh your cheating yourself out of the proudness of knowing you worked hard for it with out any shortcuts but thts just my personel opinion and yeh there are people who wouldnt think that way but i know i would hence i wont ever use them ( unless there is a medical reason y i would need to lol)


I would like to say, you do not take one cycle and become a beef cake, most people to get big will take a lot of cycles, correct PCT and a decent diet. A lot of people that do not do their cycle correct or train hard will loose most of what they gain during their PCT. You are telling me that to eat 4000 + calories a day clean to gain the most on a cycle is easy?

I did a clean bulk once ( un aided ) and was eating 4200 calories a day, I could not bloody move let alone work out. You still have to work hard during a cycle, most people will work even harder, it is not cheated muscle it is still muscle you have worked for. To say it isnt a result of hard work and determination I think is very nieve of you mate.

To be fair most people have no idea about steroid use and their views and judgements are clouded - no offence like you said it is your opinion like this is my opinion. But I think to say that the muscle is not a result of hard work is very niave (sp)


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## Chibi Sean (Dec 21, 2007)

If you allow everyone to take them you're essentially forcing everyone to take them as it'll become the only way to create a level playing field.

This can't be allowed to happen, the health risks involved in steroid usage are widely documented.

What's needed is more extensive random drug testing by commissions on fighters in between fights to better try and eradicate usage, also better methods of testing for HGH need to be developed. There have been advances in this field in 2008 so their implementation needs to be pushed through as rapidly as possible.


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## Chibi Sean (Dec 21, 2007)

marc said:


> Ive taken prohormones when i was about 18 didnt have a clue what they where someone just said 'they make ya big' so i took a months course, got exactly the same side effects as i would have with taking a course of gear, low test levels, acne back ache lasted about 2 months after it was horrible, that being said a lot of side effects occur when people havent got a clue what there doing and just take something...i have a question though
> 
> Creatine is a naturally occuring substance made predominatly in the liver and ends up being stored in skeletal muscle and is legal for anyone including athletes
> 
> ...


First reason off the top of my head is that creatine doesn't cause right ventricular hypertrophy


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## Yetiman (Feb 9, 2008)

Chibi Sean said:


> First reason off the top of my head is that creatine doesn't cause right ventricular hypertrophy


But this is only a possible side effect... This is a common mis conception about the heart growing on steroids(from memory), can you show me study's where this is the case and linked 100%? afaik - the only thing that can cause this is clen and that was tested on horses but with a much higher dose.


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## Rodders (Jun 19, 2008)

marc said:


> No sport is clean from steroid users, i bet the united kingdom's top chess player has the occasional dabble of the deca
> 
> IMO if an athlete wants to do them then there going to do them, everyone wants an edge and a lot of people see Anabolic steroids as the answer to giving them the edge...a lot of the side effects really are blown out of proportions Yeti mentioned Bigger, faster, stronger i linked it a while ago on here somehwere really good documnetary if you get the chance to see it
> 
> ...


You got the link to that documentary mate?


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

It's really well seeded on BTjunkie if you're into torrents mate, well worth watching too IMHO.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

its no more cheating then grabbing your shorts to stop a sub or grabbing the cage to stop a take down thay all do it, its impossible to train the way thay do with out taking aas.

as for it being dangerous to there health there not on higher enough doses due to cardi ofor it be be bad for there health.

its not something i would do but then again im never going to step into a cage with gsp


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

Chibi Sean said:


> First reason off the top of my head is that creatine doesn't cause right ventricular hypertrophy


Are we talking use or abuse?

Creatine in high doses can cause renal problems, sometimes even failure but where talking massive doses, probably the same with AAS massive doses will have side effects

Have a read of this chibi:

Prospective echocardiographic assessment of androgenic-anabolic steroids effects on cardiac structure and function in strength athletes.

Hartgens F, Cheriex EC, Kuipers H.

Netherlands Centre for Doping Affairs, Capelle aan den IJssel, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Since the abuse of androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) has been associated with the occurrence of serious cardiovascular disease in young athletes, we performed two studies to investigate the effects of short-term AAS administration on heart structure and function in experienced male strength athletes, with special reference to dose and duration of drug abuse. In Study 1 the effects of AAS were assessed in 17 experienced male strength athletes (age 31 +/- 7 y) who self-administered AAS for 8 or 12 - 16 weeks and in 15 non-using strength athletes (age 33 +/- 5 y) in a non-blinded design. In Study 2 the effects of administration of nandrolone decanoate (200 mg/wk i. m.) for eight weeks were investigated in 16 bodybuilders in a randomised double blind, placebo controlled design. In all subjects M-mode and two-dimensional Doppler-echocardiography were performed at baseline and after 8 weeks AAS administration. In the athletes of Study 1 who used AAS for 12 - 16 weeks a third echocardiogram was also made at the end of the AAS administration period. Echocardiographic examinations included the determination of the aortic diameter (AD), left atrium diameter (LA), left ventricular end diastolic diameter (LVEDD), interventricular septum thickness (IVS), posterior wall end diastolic wall thickness (PWEDWT), left ventricular mass (LVM), left ventricular mass index (LVMI), ejection fraction (EF) and right ventricular diameter (RVD). For assessment of the diastolic function measurements of E and A peak velocities and calculation of E/A ratio were used. In addition, acceleration and deceleration times of the E-top (ATM and DT, respectively) were determined. For evaluation of factors associated with stroke volume the aorta peak flow (AV) and left ventricular ejection times (LVET) were determined. In Study 1 eight weeks AAS self-administration did not result in changes of blood pressure or cardiac size and function. Additionally, duration of AAS self-administration did not have any impact on these parameters. Study 2 revealed that eight weeks administration of nandrolone decanoate did not induce significant alterations in blood pressure and heart morphology and function.

*Short-term administration of AAS for periods up to 16 weeks did not lead to detectable echocardiographic alterations of heart morphology and systolic and diastolic function in experienced strength athletes*Source: cutting edge muscle/studies


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

imo...ban all chemical enhancing or "currently banned drugs by athletic commision" anyone who believes that taking steds is just as hard work as working hard for honest muscle has convinced themselves this either as they are on them and trying to justify or they are so naieve (sp) its beyond comprehension...and imo most of todays atheletes in the UFC are on some form of illegal substances ...yes their are genetic gifted individuals but not as many as people believe muscular bodybuilder lookalikey with 6% bodyfat ...that aint no genetic average athelete I have ever met, yes even after 25plus years of training (hanging around weight rooms/boxing gyms/dojo's etc etc) ban atheles caught like every other sports otherwise as correctly written by other members - the sport will not be taken seriously - WWF people - what is your first thoughts yeah, stedded up freaks dancing around to a pre determined result - any grown ups admit to watching it, let alone thinking wow what atheletes, did anyone see the report on North west tonight (this week) with a cycling athelete who was given oxygen at the point of his Latic acid threshold?? got and extra 10 % performance which would be enough to make him cycle to the end of the course a second or 2 faster - that is a an advantage and just enough at the top level between a medal or no medal. he he...keeping it real folks:happy:


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

Rodders said:


> You got the link to that documentary mate?


For some reason the link i watched it on is not working, i'll see if i can find another one


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## SteSteez (Jul 21, 2007)

Si-K said:


> imo...ban all chemical enhancing or "currently banned drugs by athletic commision" anyone who believes that taking steds is just as hard work as working hard for honest muscle has convinced themselves this either as they are on them and trying to justify or they are so naieve (sp) its beyond comprehension...and imo most of todays atheletes in the UFC are on some form of illegal substances ...yes their are genetic gifted individuals but not as many as people believe muscular bodybuilder lookalikey with 6% bodyfat ...that aint no genetic average athelete I have ever met, yes even after 25plus years of training (hanging around weight rooms/boxing gyms/dojo's etc etc) ban atheles caught like every other sports otherwise as correctly written by other members - the sport will not be taken seriously - WWF people - what is your first thoughts yeah, stedded up freaks dancing around to a pre determined result - any grown ups admit to watching it, let alone thinking wow what atheletes, did anyone see the report on North west tonight (this week) with a cycling athelete who was given oxygen at the point of his Latic acid threshold?? got and extra 10 % performance which would be enough to make him cycle to the end of the course a second or 2 faster - that is a an advantage and just enough at the top level between a medal or no medal. he he...keeping it real folks:happy:


LoL your post made me laugh man...

Anyway, if most athletes in the ufc are on someform of illegal substance why when they do tests after fights the majority of fighters are clean?

My only understanding is that they know when and how to administer the right amount of gear after advice given by professionals enables them to say administer a certain level of testosterone for many months, and say two months before their scheduled fight they come off the gear so it doesn't show up on tests.

Or maybe there are other ways around it,apart from the obvious backhanders of athletic commisions.

I know in The UK most if not all of the shows do not administer P.E.D tests on their fighters so alot of fighters in the uk could easily do P.E.D


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

SteSteez said:


> LoL your post made me laugh man...
> 
> Anyway, if most athletes in the ufc are on someform of illegal substance why when they do tests after fights the majority of fighters are clean?
> 
> ...


apart from the u.s and a few other countrys aas are legal including the u.k.

alot of the rules dont say anything about using them when your not fighting, there just not allowed when you are, so if you use aas betwean fights your not doing anything wrong in alot of cases.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

Ste - answered your own question their mate - plus the users are always 1 step ahead and Toxo is on the money as well (imo), anyone hear about the athletic commission are now testing samples upto 8 yrs after an event - so if you win a medal in 1 olympics 8 years later it could be revolked...is it still worth cheaping for? yep, as think of the money you would have made in sponsorship during those 8 years - just hope Nike don't ask for it back, he he. Must admit I expected some harsh responses as my view is fairly extreme.(that's asking for it?!!!):happy:


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## MilfhunterMMA (Jan 10, 2009)

maddog21 said:


> personel opinion when competing i.e pro/semipro/am m.m.a then no they shldnt make them legal however outside of competition its should be personel choice as the only person you are cheating is yourself.
> 
> as for creatine (excuse the poor spelling plz lol) and other legal substances they are legal for a reson ok yes they do aid in muscle growth etc but not as drasticaly as AAS and other forms of banned steds and cems and they are there realy to help us "hardgainers" compete which in my eyes is ok whoever decides to take them or not like with whey powders etc and the only way we would ever have a 100% fair playing feild is if they banned any and all kinds of cems, steds, powders and so on that way it would be man on man with no added extras or little cem help here n there.
> 
> but as we all know sum1 sumwhere will cheat ity just a fact and yeh they shld atleast have the balls to admit it when they get caught and take there puinishment like leban has


There are reasons why they are banned at other sports, one reason is that it damages the athlete's long term health. When you start allowing using roids there is no end in it + it sends out a bad message.

Don't allow them!


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

MilfhunterMMA said:


> There are reasons why they are banned at other sports, *one reason is that it damages the athlete's long term health*. When you start allowing using roids there is no end in it + it sends out a bad message.
> 
> Don't allow them!


So does smoking, drinking, eating junk food but anyone is allowed to do that?


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

the government gets tax on them!!!...if they are gonna legalise steds that would probably be why (nothing to do with new research proving they are safer than they thought - which they are not).

From people I know the steds tuck about 6 months before side effects (bad one's) scared em off - obviously they probably did not know about cycling etc but for this weak example you could say drugs are a lot worst that cigs, beer and cheesburgers - unless whilst pissed you drop your ciggy, go to get it back slip on a cheesburger and fall under a bus and kill yourself:laugh::laugh: an lets face it Marc if a peice of food is on the line you would probably take the risk (Marc eats for England) 

Works not good for your health - stress and getting up early and for most of use dealing with dickheads so can we not start a campaign to ban that instead?.:yes:


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## temeura (Oct 29, 2008)

I guess that now Coleman is back in the UFC, he'd have stopped juicing!

It did make him rather angry!


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## MilfhunterMMA (Jan 10, 2009)

marc said:


> So does smoking, drinking, eating junk food but anyone is allowed to do that?


I have no idea why u make that comparison, cause its completely different. I'm talking about fair competition and an athlete has to reach a certain goal. if one uses it everyone will have to which deteriorates their health, just because they wanna win badly.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

Ok then please post up some Evidence of 'AAS Damaging an athletes long term health'.

Im not talking about Abuse of AAS, but structured Cycles with a solid pct, there are far too many misconseptions regarding steroids


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