# Sperm count fix



## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

So you've been to the doctors and had a fertility test done to determine sperm count and mobility as you and your partner are finding it hard to conceive.

You've cycled before, not always come off the best you could have.

Doctors rang with your results but, didn't come back in your favour to conceive. They will want to question you on history and give you further tests.

what is you next line of protocal if you were to take it into your own hands to be faster than the nhs


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## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

When was last cycle mate, recent?


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Been off a few month now, and my only reason for cycles is competition in mind. Massively motivated for it.

Now I'm f**ked, as my mrs wants a baby now.

People have conceived on cycle, with many previous cycles behind the conception also.

Im in a massive predicament because I want to enter competitions and to do so I need to cycle and carry on forward.

Is there no way to gain the sperm count back healthy whilst continuing my journey with competition in mind.

Or is it a complete stop cycling going to natty levels and wait till we conceive.

Im 35 now and time is ticking. It's not on my side to stop now with comps in mind.

@Pscarb

tagged you mate as you know your stuff


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

you do not need to stop using gear obviously chances are greater if you did, but given the correct ancillary stack conception can be achieved, my 2 youngest boys where both conceived on cycle my youngest through a competition prep.


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> you do not need to stop using gear obviously chances are greater if you did, but given the correct ancillary stack conception can be achieved, my 2 youngest boys where both conceived on cycle my youngest through a competition prep.


 Thanks for the reply Paul, I very much appreciate it.

i assume my doctors will now want to maybe retest, have bloods taken etc and go from there, so this is also a predicament.

its nice to hear it's definitely possible whilst following the current path I've chosen, but not only is my count and mobility affected at the moment from use but the mrs also has low fsh which means she may not be ovulating, (nothing to do with the sport, but just unlucky leading a typical normal lifestyle)

which means they need to fix that also.

Could you possibly send me a inbox to help with the conception stack, to achieve conception whilst continuing, as I'm unsure the correct process for doing it this way and if I should avoid any compounds etc.

regards


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> you do not need to stop using gear obviously chances are greater if you did, but given the correct ancillary stack conception can be achieved, my 2 youngest boys where both conceived on cycle my youngest through a competition prep.


 What would be the correct ancillary stack?

heard many different opinions.


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

geeby112 said:


> What would be the correct ancillary stack?
> 
> heard many different opinions.


 Paul put this ancillary stack up a while back now, can be found with a search.

1000iu of HCG twice a week

75iu of HMG 3 times a week (can get away with twice a week)

20mg Nolvadex per day

800iu Vitamin E per day

150mg Proviron per day

now most i have given this protocol to (and others like it) have asked the same question,

"How long should i do this for"

my answer is simple

"for as long as you need to"

the HMG will do its work within the first month so you can drop that after 4 weeks (its not cheap)


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Also as an update on my results they were 20% mobility and 0.2 million sperm.

So a low result.

Doctor has asked for another sperm test to be done to double check, so I'll start the protocol and then retest in a few months see if anything improves, and update


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## sean m (Sep 20, 2015)

Is there any worry that the child could be affected ?

If the compounds your taking is "damaging / reducing " count and mobility.

Only curious as have a nephew with fetal alcohol syndrome.


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

sean m said:


> Is there any worry that the child could be affected ?
> 
> If the compounds your taking is "damaging / reducing " count and mobility.
> 
> Only curious as have a nephew with fetal alcohol syndrome.


 Something I have asked myself, but have no idea to be honest, I'm hoping it won't affect the foetus or child later on.

I assume once a healthy sperm enters the egg it's all good. How healthy the sperm maybe is another question.

Maybe cycling will affect it compared to a natty sperm. "No idea"

hope someone can clear that up!

@Pscarb tagged as you may know this!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sean m said:


> Is there any worry that the child could be affected ?
> 
> If the compounds your taking is "damaging / reducing " count and mobility.
> 
> Only curious as have a nephew with fetal alcohol syndrome.


 the compounds you take do not damage sperm they lower the production, it has never been shown that steroids or any PEDs damage sperm to a degree that it affects the child conceived, you cannot compare steroid use to Alcohol abuse it just is not that simple.


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> the compounds you take do not damage sperm they lower the production, it has never been shown that steroids or any PEDs damage sperm to a degree that it affects the child conceived, you cannot compare steroid use to Alcohol abuse it just is not that simple.


 Perfect as always Paul. Cheers


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## stargazer (Sep 14, 2017)

sean m said:


> Is there any worry that the child could be affected ?
> 
> If the compounds your taking is "damaging / reducing " count and mobility.
> 
> Only curious as have a nephew with fetal alcohol syndrome.


 No.


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## stargazer (Sep 14, 2017)

Beasted said:


> Also as an update on my results they were 20% mobility and 0.2 million sperm.
> 
> So a low result.
> 
> Doctor has asked for another sperm test to be done to double check, so I'll start the protocol and then retest in a few months see if anything improves, and update


 No one has mentioned Clomid, i would swap that out for the nolva as that is doing naff all and there should be Vit D in there too, and you don't need the prov.

The above that i have written is about increasing your sperm count, nothing more.


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## MarkyMark (Jul 14, 2015)

Ok i guess i can give some good feedback with regards to this as i am in a similar position. I have been B&C for around 2 years now and used HCG throughout however there have been times where i have neglected to pin at least twice a week and even at lower doses.

currently running 300mg Test E and 1g primo E per week. HGH 2IU ED, HMG 150IU 3 times per week and HCG 500IU e2d (HMG was started around 7 weeks ago and at this time increased the HCG dosing to the 50IUI every 2 days).

I never had a sperm analysis done before starting the above HMG/HCG protocol.

There is not much info on HMG however having used this i have done some research and also had bloods done to confirm. HMG contains 150/75IU of actual FSH which is extracted from womens urine who have reached menopause. FSH usually has a half life of around 4 hours however in menopausal women FSH naturally has a much longer half life (which is in excess of 12 hours as i understand). after a shot of HMG peak FSH is reached around 20 hour mark then slowly tapers off at this point.

HMG does not contain LH but instead HCG as the half life of LH is around 20 mins.

When running HMG i had bloods taken around 24 hours following my last pin and FSH was around 4.5 (range 1.5 to 12).

so around the 7 week mark i purchased a yo sperm test kit (check it on amazon). it is basically a small microscope that you attach to your smart phone and you use the camera on your phone to view the video on the app. the app then records via your camera and uses an algo which determines if your sperm motility is >6million per ml. after 7 weeks of the HMG and HCG protocol i am in the >6million motil sperm per ml. any thing below 6 million is considered low and one would likely find fertility to be difficult. My actual level was "low normal" (still above 6 mil per ml of course and sufficient to fertilise an egg) however at 7 weeks i am quite happy as before this time i would say it was likely i had little if any motile sperm (however this is speculation).

its said that it can take 3 months for sperm to mature and i am around 5 weeks till this point. for this reason i am going to increase the HMG to 4 times per week for this duration and re-test in 6 weeks time and then take a view on it at this point if i pull back the HMG dosing to save on costs moving forward.

Im looking to start a family in the next 2 or 3 months so i am using this time now to get the count up and maintain it - i will then drop down to TRT dose of Test E for the duration both my self and my partner are trying.


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## MarkyMark (Jul 14, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> the compounds you take do not damage sperm they lower the production, it has never been shown that steroids or any PEDs damage sperm to a degree that it affects the child conceived, you cannot compare steroid use to Alcohol abuse it just is not that simple.


 Hi Paul, as per my post above, i am currently using the above HMG and HCG protocol to get my count up over the next few months and ideally with the aid of the HMG improve my last results which were "acceptable" even thus far in.

I will be dropping to TRT dose test E and have no issues with regards to whether synthetic testosterone can damage sperm cells which then cause defects to the growing fetus (such things are usually applicable if the woman is using said drugs which of course my wife isnt).

With that said i am a little cautions with HGH which i am using at 2IU a day which is a pretty low dose but it keeps my igf1 in the high normal range which i find beneficial and is also helping me along with my long term rehab with my shoulder/RC issues with PT excessive i have incorporated into my training. Ideally i would like to continue using these but siding with the idea to drop it also.

I have read a few threads on other forum where by people advise for a man not to use HGH while trying to conceive as there are "possibility" that it could cause changes to the sperm cells which could damage the growing fetus (obviously these people are not doctors or scientists..)

on the contrary all of the studied i could find were of those that suggested HGH helps with increasing a mans sperm motility and i could find nothing officially which says it can cause any damage to the baby itself?

just wondering your views on this also?

Also can i ask for how long you were on before you managed to conceive with each of your boys? As typically you can remain fertile for many months when starting a cycle as it takes many months for perm to be produced in the testis and they dont simply die of as soon as you start administrating the steroids.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

MarkyMark said:


> Hi Paul, as per my post above, i am currently using the above HMG and HCG protocol to get my count up over the next few months and ideally with the aid of the HMG improve my last results which were "acceptable" even thus far in.
> 
> I will be dropping to TRT dose test E and have no issues with regards to whether synthetic testosterone can damage sperm cells which then cause defects to the growing fetus (such things are usually applicable if the woman is using said drugs which of course my wife isnt).
> 
> ...


 i have been on HGH for the conception of all 4 of my kids, the talk about it damaging the fetus is bollox plus it does not alter sperm and if it does not alter sperm it can't have any effect on the fetus.

with my 6yr old we conceived 7 weeks into a Test P/Tren A cycle, with my 2.5yr old i was 9 months in (7 months Pre-comp, 2 months before my holiday) to a cycle when we conceived Sam.

having kids is a huge thing if you are worried in any way then come off all drugs as the stress you will have wondered if something you are using will either stop you from having kids or that you will damage them will affect the chances of you conceiving.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

I came off AAS to conceive. My wife was running var and I was running test/var. I ran power pct and few months later we hit the jackpot. My girl is now 3 years old and the lil Angel is as strong as an ox I swear lol

I then went on to 1.5yr of cycle/TRT then the wife decided that we try for a second kid. This proved difficult I came off and struggled for months libido shot erections gone and my head was a mess. Went back to trt and ordered everything I needed for heavy power pct this time gave enough time to let the synthetic test leave the system before I started. Hit a wall again.

finally found a protocol think it was the dave palumbo fertility cycle which was basically low test with hcg/hmg/clomid/Proviron etc.... one month later we fell pregnant. We did lose the little one on our first trimester but it had no bearing on AAS. Just fate really


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

About time I gave a thread revival after a long journey and I'm probably in a good place to post a update on this situation now.

Been depressing and felt less of a man not being fertile.

As most know on this thread, my results were 20% mobility and 0.2 million sperm and we're not formed properly.
In a nut shell things weren't looking good.

"To add" I've never abused gear, kept a doses and stacks mid range at a maximum, always researched and always came off as required by well known elders and science tells us.

Anyway those results were after 3months after stopping PEDs and a proper pct ended the drug taking.

So I stopped/finished any drugs on July/august 2018.

Then this year....

8 months after stopping gear the mrs fell pregnant, we had a early private scan at 6weeks, terribly straight after the scan she bled and we lost the baby, happiness out the window, the form of the sperm were still affected but count and mobility was increasing slightly, it's was the form which made the embryo and fetus not properly forming..

Can tell you now I was hating myself and it was all my fault.

I was rebooked to have yet another sperm test and that was taken beginning of October this year, 2019.

So another 6 months from the conception loss!

Low and behold the day I gave my sample in I get a call from the mrs and her period is late (now 9 weeks ago) few days after being late she does 5 pregnancy tests and all "positive" were very happy!

1 week after this I get a letter to say my sperm is in normal range, "mobility/form/amount per ml & count"

"Brilliant"

So it's taken 15 months completely off any drugs to get my sperm to normal, she's now 9 weeks pregnant today.

We had a early scan yesterday, as she has had some cramps but the scan showed us all good so far, heart beating away! 

Midwife appointment this Tuesday to discuss the result of the scan etc.

Will update when I have more news on my journey!


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your news mate but genuinely please for the both of you now.

All the best.

PS, nice nail varnish!


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Endomorph84 said:


> Sorry to hear about your news mate but genuinely please for the both of you now.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> PS, nice nail varnish!


 Thanks mate.

Hopefully all goes well, once the 12 week scan is done and good, chances are greatly increased to go full term.

Yea went for a nice pearl white varnish, pleased how it came out actually. Haha ?


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## Hiitlove (Sep 18, 2018)

Beasted said:


> About time I gave a thread revival after a long journey and I'm probably in a good place to post a update on this situation now.
> 
> Been depressing and felt less of a man not being fertile.
> 
> ...


 Hi congratulations on the lovely news. I know how difficult the whole process is and how stressful. My hubby and I are in the same boat. He's been off everything since April 2018. One early loss in Feb this year. Fluctuating sperm results. They did go up earlier this year and then middle of this year dipped Again. His testosterone level is still low but Lh and fsh in range. He's trying HMG on it's own at the moment. He's tried Clomid previously but it makes him too emotional. If you don't mind me asking what was your pct and for how long? And did you take anything else to help? Thank you and congrats again


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Hiitlove said:


> Hi congratulations on the lovely news. I know how difficult the whole process is and how stressful. My hubby and I are in the same boat. He's been off everything since April 2018. One early loss in Feb this year. Fluctuating sperm results. They did go up earlier this year and then middle of this year dipped Again. His testosterone level is still low but Lh and fsh in range. He's trying HMG on it's own at the moment. He's tried Clomid previously but it makes him too emotional. If you don't mind me asking what was your pct and for how long? And did you take anything else to help? Thank you and congrats again


 Hi and thanks, all I can't say is it takes time and rushing things could lead to problems when conceiving because it's forced and not naturally occurred. That's my experience anyway.
Basically I would say stop all drugs, recover naturally, once the sperm and bloods fully recovered to normal range then start trying. Having miscarriages is just to hard.

My pct was clomid 100/100/50/50 & tamoxifen 20/20/20/20 which was started two weeks from (long acting) last shot. 
Always ran 1000iu hcg every week "during" cycles. Didn't take anything else to help just my normal multi vitamins and fish oils.


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## Hiitlove (Sep 18, 2018)

Beasted said:


> Hi and thanks, all I can't say is it takes time and rushing things could lead to problems when conceiving because it's forced and not naturally occurred. That's my experience anyway.
> Basically I would say stop all drugs, recover naturally, once the sperm and bloods fully recovered to normal range then start trying. Having miscarriages is just to hard.
> 
> My pct was clomid 100/100/50/50 & tamoxifen 20/20/20/20 which was started two weeks from (long acting) last shot.
> Always ran 1000iu hcg every week "during" cycles. Didn't take anything else to help just my normal multi vitamins and fish oils.


 Thank you. My worry is natural recovery just doesn't seem to be happening  it's been 18 months! Last semen analysis after 15 months showed 15million sleep .. testosterone level was low. So perhaps he's permanently damaged himself. He's on vitamins and fish oils. He didn't use any hcg on cycle and was completely shut down. Literally zero sperm April 2018 ? perhaps our option now is ivf. Wishing you all the best with the pregnancy and your baby


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Hiitlove said:


> Thank you. My worry is natural recovery just doesn't seem to be happening  it's been 18 months! Last semen analysis after 15 months showed 15million sleep .. testosterone level was low. So perhaps he's permanently damaged himself. He's on vitamins and fish oils. He didn't use any hcg on cycle and was completely shut down. Literally zero sperm April 2018 ? perhaps our option now is ivf. Wishing you all the best with the pregnancy and your baby


 Possibly because he didn't use hcg on cycle and a proper pct to finish has caused longer lasting effects.

I mean I had 0.2 million and now have 45million. 
Yea it took me over a year to recover naturally and that was even after using everything correctly whilst on cycles and coming off.

Everyones body and make up is different, but after all that time he's been off not touching peds he should have some improvements.

Thanks, wish you all the best also


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## Hiitlove (Sep 18, 2018)

Beasted said:


> Possibly because he didn't use hcg on cycle and a proper pct to finish has caused longer lasting effects.
> 
> I mean I had 0.2 million and now have 45million.
> Yea it took me over a year to recover naturally and that was even after using everything correctly whilst on cycles and coming off.
> ...


 Thank you. I guess patience is key ... so happy it worked out for you guys


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## Beasted (Sep 22, 2010)

Well this is an update.

Arnold was born on 28th June 2020.

Full of health and full of life!

Happy days!


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## Juicy Goosey (Aug 25, 2012)

Congrats mate! Buzzing for you! Great name as well!


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## Juicy Goosey (Aug 25, 2012)

Hiitlove said:


> Thank you. I guess patience is key ... so happy it worked out for you guys


 Hi Hiitlove,

This might not be necessary anymore as your post was from over a year ago, but thought I'd post it here in case it helps. I've posted this on a couple of other fertility threads as well.

My eldest boy was conceived during a power PCT blast (by accident) with high doses of HCG being run, but the second time round was a very intentional fertility cycle after months of trying for a second kid without much luck. I think we were quite lucky as I only had to run the protocol for 6 weeks before hitting the jackpot and a lot of the research I've read suggests it may take up to 3 months for the protocol to take effect properly, but who knows? This may be worth worth your husband giving it a shot, or at least considering before going down the route of IVF.

My cycle was as follows:

- 1500iu HCG - EOD
- 75iu HMG - EOD (alternate with HCG)
- 50mg Clomid - ED
- 20mg Nolva - ED (was advised this will help keep oestrogen down, as well as prevent desensitisation from the HCG - how much truth there is to this I don't know but ran it anyway on the off chance this advice was correct)
- Fertility Multivitamin (probably had very little effect but thought it can't hurt)

I had Proviron on hand as I've read this can help boost sperm motility, but didn't end up needing to use it.

Good luck to you both! Hope this helps!


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## Garryspoon (Oct 2, 2018)

Beasted said:


> Well this is an update.
> 
> Arnold was born on 28th June 2020.
> 
> ...


 F**king amazing news mate, made up for you. :beer:


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## scottysafc (Mar 21, 2017)

Get in there lad chuffed to bits for ya!

Gives me hope for sure seeing as though I've been dishing it out bareback for 10 years now and not the slightest whiff of a bairn, that I know of anyway!


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## MarkyMark (Jul 14, 2015)

Good man, congrats.

FYI since my post back in 2018 at the start of the thread, we went on to have our daughter who was born in sept 2019 - wife fell pregnant on the second month following my HCG/HMG protocol. was using TRT test dose along with 1g primo for the duration of this time also.

Soon after i stopped HCG and HMG and continued to B&C since. have done some sperm tests for the hell of it since then and my count is now 0.

looking to start trying again next summer and still have enough HCG and HMG for a good 6 months.


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## 1878 (Jul 13, 2013)

100% the best thread I've ever read on a forum.

Well played mate, brought a smile to my face :thumb

Got 2 girls of my own 6 & 3 and we struggled to conceive for a couple years with the first (not juice related) but not nice thing to go through. Glad it all worked out for you


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