# Struggling to get 4000 calories of food



## ALake (Feb 13, 2007)

For me to grow it seems I need 4000 calories a day. But alot of the time it is a real struggle. Here is a typical day of eating for me yesturday

1. Breaskfast, Bowl of Cereal - 300 calories

2. 2 chicken fillets and 100g rice, 75g veg - 500 calories

3. 2 peanut butter sandwiches and banana - 400 calories

4. 2 chicken fillets and 100 g rice 75 g veg - 600 calories

5. 4 chicken drumsticks, 5 boiled potato, 75g veg 500 calories

6. 2 chicken fillets and 100g rice, 75g veg - 600 calories

7. 4 slices of peanut butter toast - 400 calories

= about 3400-3500. I also have two 40 g protein shakes which add about 500 calories but I want to eat 4000 calories of proper food. Anybody got any ideas?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Add more fats. They are easy calories.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

TBH the whole diet needs work

there is too much protein, lack of sources of it

as above lack of fats

incomplete meals

have a read below

http://www.fitnessuncovered.co.uk/diet-nutrition/bodybuilding-nutrition-articles/bulking_vtwo_new_and_improved_article.php


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

If you have a look at my diet thread you'll see that I am consuming 3000-3500 calories a day.

All you need to do is up the rice and fats in that and you will be there.

You may also want to vary the meals to include some steak or fish, I'm quite limited on what I can have on diet which is why it is mainly chicken and egg whites.


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## ALake (Feb 13, 2007)

Yes I do vary the meals most days when I get sick of chicken, Fish is expensive so I only eat it about once or twice a week. What is the best fat source?


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## ewokbowes (Apr 27, 2006)

ALake said:


> What is the best fat source?


 Try eating some seeds (pumpkin, sunflower, etc) they're loaded with efa or may be mixed nuts.


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

To be honest for strenght i think protien is overated. i might be way off but I would go for carbs heavy meal over a protien one. ofcourse balance is important but I feel people are afraid of the carbs for some reasion.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

ALake said:


> Yes I do vary the meals most days when I get sick of chicken, Fish is expensive so I only eat it about once or twice a week. What is the best fat source?


udo's oil, flax seed oil, olive oil, almonds, nuts etc, NATURAL peanut butter.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

wogihao said:


> To be honest for strenght i think protien is overated. i might be way off but I would go for carbs heavy meal over a protien one. ofcourse balance is important but I feel people are afraid of the carbs for some reasion.


agreed, I suppose obviously near to competitin carbs have to be monitored and manipulated but when bulking/building I love my carbs


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

the only fats you need worrying about to source are EPA/DHA

fish oils or krill oil

the 'average diet takes care of the rest

a few nuts ad seeds and olive oil for monos

but udos is a watse of money

flax is ok but has a poor conversion rate and most nuts are too n6 rich

simply eat fish or fish oils and have a balanced diet


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

avocado, coconut, walnut oil, almonds (the best of the nuts), oily fish - makarel, sardines, salmon etc err eat whole eggs maybe for beakfast, get a coffee grinder and grind flax seeds into your protein shakes and OMG I nearly forgot red meat.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> the only fats you need worrying about to source are EPA/DHA
> 
> fish oils or krill oil
> 
> ...


Absolutely nothing wrong with Udo's oil, overpriced - YES, but good sound stuff. I don't believe the "average diet" takes care of EFA either, or especially Alakes diet in this instance.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

and what is the ratio of flax oil converts to EPA and then DHA?

why do we need so many n6 fats?

isnt oleic acid from olive oil enough for 9s

=

udos a poor product as it then means all other omega balances are off unless you dont consume other fats

LNA has benefits but its not efficient enough to produce adequate 2g of EPA/DHA required as a baseline for humans


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> and what is the ratio of flax oil converts to EPA and then DHA?
> 
> why do we need so many n6 fats?
> 
> ...


Im afraid I don't believe IMO its a poor product, very happy with it, logic isn't always the answer to everything, it might make sense on paper but its how it works on an individual basis that matters.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

ALake said:


> Yes I do vary the meals most days when I get sick of chicken, Fish is expensive so I only eat it about once or twice a week. What is the best fat source?


Fish doesnt have to be expensive mate, f your looking at Salmon them yes but a lot of fish is very reasonable inc Pollock etc, just throw some fish oils in with it if its not a fatty fish.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

Five-O said:


> Im afraid I don't believe IMO its a poor product, very happy with it, logic isn't always the answer to everything, it might make sense on paper but its how it works on an individual basis that matters.


so basing it on?

how does the body make 18 chain carbon atoms in 20 and 22 diffrently in people though? (other than gender) im not sure what you are stating

so LNA > EPA > DHA

even with GLA present its shown the conversion rate is about 6% DHA is required by the human body

something udos cannot do effeciently unless you drank gallons, then of course you have to ask just how much fat do you need before you hit DHA requirements

simple enough

eat oily fish

a *few* mixed nuts and seeds

olive oil

fat from eggs and meat

UDOs is flawed

i am trying to establish why you state its *A* 'good'and *B* person specific as to how good it can be?

what hapens when you consume other fats in the diet too? then you n3/6 ratio goes to pot...the western diet is too rich in n6 fats anyhow to actively source them

cheers in advance


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> so basing it on?
> 
> so LNA > EPA > DHA
> 
> ...


Why make a mountain out of a molehill, I supplement my pro/fat meals with Udo's and Im lean, getting stronger and look ok in my book, by this I mean, if its not broken, don't fix it.

With all due respect your overcomplicating things IMO.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

no

i am merely debating this on the level that is not overcomplicating things, its simply stating fact

similar to someone posting

"a BMW M3 is the best sports car ever"

they may believe that, but on paper and in reality thats not the case

same with UDOs

its not the best choice of essential fats and i will debate that on the level of science not "becuase it works"

if all debate were on that level then there IMO would be nothing but anecdotal evidence

why have anecdotal evidence when you can have empirical?

im not trying to be an **** but this is a hyped product that has more holes than st andrews augusta and gleneages put together

in short:

alone its a poor choice for essential fats

you cannot argue the efficiency of one part of your diet based on you 'getting leaner' you can though post study after study to show LNA>EPA.DHA conversion is por and too many n6 fats is suboptimal

i simply debate on a level to include:

science

anecdotal evidence

my 2p

not just "becuase i think it works"

sorry if that offended you, its not meant to im simply stating its a sh1te product in comparison to the alternatives  (no offence in this post at all)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

toxictoffee said:


> so basing it on?
> 
> how does the body make 18 chain carbon atoms in 20 and 22 diffrently in people though? (other than gender) im not sure what you are stating
> 
> ...


I have not read the whole thread yet but Id like to comment on Udo's vs. fish oils.

First of all many know that I dont like Udo's oils or I should say fish oils over Udo's.

First fish oils offer a far better Omega 3 profile over flax, probably about 10 times.

The typical American diet is rich in Omega 6 fatty acids and defficient of Omega 3's.

The optimal ratio is 1/1 to 1/4 Omega 3 to Omega 6's.

With a diet rich in Omega 6's and defficient in Omega 3's, this will raise AA in the body and AA is a pro-inflammatory, and said to raise PG-2.

Omega 3 fatty acids have anti-inflammatory properties due to raising PG-1 and PG-3.

So strange as this very arguement is on another board where the debate has heated up terribly.

Thing with fish oils is they have to be refirgerated after opening as they can become rancid.

Only time I would prefere flax over fish would be if I was in a very hot climate and I had no access to a refrigerator.

Again, supplementation is just that. I supplement fish oils in my diet because I hate fish and I know I need more fish oil in my diet.

Although I do have an avacado tree in my back yard and eat avacado quite frequently.

Side bar here, my dog gets the most softest coat when I give her avacado and her dry skin goes away........

Ok, back on topic.

Due to the fact that the typical american diet is defficeint in Omega 3's and rich in Omega 6's this puts the ratio at around 1/10 to 1/25.

This can cause a host of problems and there is a SIP or Silent Inflammation Profile test that will test the ratio of AA to EPA and is something that is cutting edge and new here in the States.

Udo's has a blend of 3's, 6's and 9's, so for me due to the ratio being out of whack this seems like the last choice in fats for me to help raise the 3 to 6 ratio.

Again, eating nuts, seeds, avacado, olives all help to supply the body with good fats.

But remember you need saturated fats in the diet too, yes eggs offer some almost perfect food, but also butter is a good choice which has Butrate(sp) which is know to fight cancer.

Everything in moderation.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Some quotes from one of my favorite posters:



ChefX said:


> IMHO
> 
> flax should only be used in conjunction with ala and
> 
> ...





ChefX said:


> olive oil is a carrier of other things in food and essential, hence its in my diatia, butter is as well
> 
> BUT fish oils are powerful drug like and essential for optimizing health
> 
> ...


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

> Thing with fish oils is they have to be refirgerated after opening as they can become rancid.


so does flax

hence why it comes in an opaque bottle and must be put in the fridge

here in england we have a place called holland and barrett who sell flax oil which tastes like sh1te as a result of poor storage

you must keep any n3 fats in a dark cold plce, not just fishy oils

back on topic


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