# does anyone have a staffie cross american pitbull?



## stone14

as above does anyone have one of these? do you get any hassle of police for having it?

i no american pitbulls are illegal but a registered cross isnt.


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## adamdutton

im affraid if the dog warden sees it as a pitbull type it will be deemed illegal and will be seized and pts if classed dangerous and you will be charged with owning a illegal breed under dangerous dogs act.

even full staffies can be seized if the dog warden thinks it could be a pit bull type, even american bulldogs have been seized,

there was one guy who had a litter of american bulldogs seized and they were pts as they were deemed pitbull type but the mum and dad of the pups wernt and were released back to owner, now thats how stupid the law is, any bull breed dog now adays is under fire,

best off sticking to fully registered staffies still not 100% safe from the law but there is less chance of them being seized and if they do get seized will most likely be returned,

remember the law says PITBULL TYPE as there is actually no proper standard for a pitbull.


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## stone14

ok a leave it then cheers


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## adamdutton

here is a good example of what i mean below are some pictures and some are staffies and some are pitbulls the problem is even the so called profesionals cant tell the differance so they would all be just classed as pitbull types


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## noturbo

Got to admit i worry about this with Bailey, we have no papers for him so he could be pts as "pitbull type"

I do take him away from town for most of his walks and only let him off the lead when its deserted to avoid any complaints, sad state of affairs if you ask me :cursing:


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## danimal

mate police dont really know what pits look like etc you wouldnt have a problem having a full bred pit as long as it didnt atack anyone or you werent involved in other things the police don tlike like drugs and thus get attention drawn to you! i know lots of people that wander around with pitbulls no problem


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## adamdutton

i know it should be the deed and not the breed that are punished, staffies and pitbulls probably have the best natural temperment you could want a dog to have, it just takes a responsible owner to take care of it, there are a lot more types of dogs that have bad temperments but because there not bull breed types it is ok and dont get reported, jack russels have a worse temperment than pitbulls its just there are so many idiots who get them to make them look hard and train them to be nasty so all the other bull breed owners get the same label.

just yesterday i had one of my staffies out and was doing swimming with him when a bloke and his 2 kids walked in the place i put mine straight on the lead, but they didnt put theres on and it was a big red nose pitbull and it came running straight over to mine, i grabbed my staffie and my wife grabbed the pitbull and shouted the owner to get his dog and his reply 'its ok he wont do anything' well thats all good but what if my dog looks up and sees a dog running towards him at full pelt what do you think his reaction is going to be? the dog didnt seem aggresive toward other dogs, but it was a male and mine was a male and mine had his toy which he loves and i doubt he would let a strange dog try take it off him.


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## BLUE(UK)

I used to know someone who used to walk about with a gun in his belt,the cops didn't think he looked the type and nor did he draw attention to this fact by doing anything else illegal.Didn't mean there was no chance of him getting pulled in for it cos eventually the wrong/right person saw it and reported him and he had his home searched.

Truth be told,there are so many eyes out there in communities.....and sometimes some are of the jealous kind.

I just dont think it's fair on the dog to not have much freedom.


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## adamdutton

agree with blue(uk) most of the dogs that are getting seized now are because of people grassing and thats because of the bad publicity.


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## megatron

Whats the obsession with dangerous dogs ffs? Why does every person in the UK seem to have to own a pitbull (cross)... There are tons of dogs that don't savage people. I don't get it. IS it the hardman image or something?


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## COLINSRI

I ive in hemel hempstead and nearly every chav here has a staff.........I don't wanna be part of that..........as for pitballs, they are banned for a good reason. Sameas guns are banned forgood reason.


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## Karen

According to research published, an innocent dog a week dies due to the stupid DDA ....

It is up to the owner to prove their dog is innocent and the police are so rubbish they don't even know what a pitbull looks like half the time 

Edited to add, I have a staffy girl who is 7. She is the softest dog I have ever owned and I am not a chav - there is a campaign to try get middle aged women to become staffy owners (that will be me then) to try get them away from the chav having the hard dog image. I think its a good idea because if they become uncool then people will realise what a great family pet they make


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## noturbo

megatron said:


> Whats the obsession with dangerous dogs ffs? Why does every person in the UK seem to have to own a pitbull (cross)... There are tons of dogs that don't savage people. I don't get it. IS it the hardman image or something?


 I have a staffy mate and no its not the hard man image, its the character and the personality of the dog. Also how good they are as family pets and around kids. Of all the dog breeds the kennel club only recomends 2 breeds of dog with families with kids, one of which is the staffordshire bull terrier! They are not called the "nanny dog" for no reason

They are not monsters and dont go round everyday savaging children :cursing:


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## COLINSRI

This is what pits are good at:






2.31 onwards

Lucky the dude had a gun.......

....great movie


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## noturbo

COLINSRI said:


> This is what pits are good at:


What, swiming? Acting?


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## COLINSRI

Chasing dudes whom decide to fvck with hillbilly drug dealers....


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## megatron

noturbo said:


> I have a staffy mate and no its not the hard man image, its the character and the personality of the dog. Also how good they are as family pets and around kids. Of all the dog breeds the kennel club only recomends 2 breeds of dog with families with kids, one of which is the staffordshire bull terrier! They are not called the "nanny dog" for no reason
> 
> They are not monsters and dont go round everyday savaging children :cursing:


That's cool, I didn't know staffies were so safe. Of course pitbulls are a different story.

IT doens't sadly stop the image, in every gang of chavs i see there are 1 or 2 staffies being dragged about. :cursing:


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## noturbo

Actually pitbulls arn't that different, people really have the wrong idea. The pitbulls greatest strengths turn out to be its greatest weakness. Its Strong, fast, pwerfull, willing to please its owner etc. which makes it a brilliant dog in the right hands. Unfortunately it also makes it potentially dangerous (like alot of other dogs) when in the wrong hands! Its chavs that are attracted to these traits for the wrong reasons and use them in a negative way.

Also people always say theyre "fighting dogs" so must be dangerous, again this is totally wrong. Centuries back when dog fighting was popular and legal they bread there dogs to have game and fight to the death, WITH ANOTHER DOG! Any human aggression was stamped out by killing any dog that showed aggression towards people, this is why dogs that were used for fighting in the past generally are not human aggressive unless its trained into them

Pitbulls and Staffordshire bull terriers are generally of sound tempremant and i couldnt agree more with the statemant "deed not breed"


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## stone14

i think it is how a dog is brought up that can make it dangerous not the breed (altho i no some breeds are more boustrous than others). it is the type of person that brings it up that makes it unpredictable and dangerous. i believe any dog can be a great loving pet if brough up correctly even pits. cause pits are known for fighting, that attracts a certain type of person to them (i dont mean everyone that has one mind), some ppl try to bring them up to be "hard" and thinking there cool and cause they have a dog theyve brought up to guard and attack which can be good or bad again on how you bring it up. they dont realy no what there doing can make the dog umpredictable.

you cant bring a dog up to be a hard fighting dog then the next min expect it to be cuddly and play with kids. its one or the other imo, some ppl want the best of both worlds. i think ppl bringing there dogs up like this is what makes them dangerous.

if you get what i mean lol


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## stone14

megatron said:


> IT doens't sadly stop the image, in every gang of chavs i see there are 1 or 2 staffies being dragged about. :cursing:


prob cause there cheap, lots for sale easy to get hold of, loyal great pets as is any breed of dog if brough up correctly.

also the image they have which is wrong imo as with pits. its the owner that makes a dog how it is


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## danimal

i can assure there are many dog breeds not on the dda that are far more dangerous to humans in the wroing hands! imo dog is brought up to teh way it behaves, you get a pitbull in the right hands and its a loving companion! put a lab in the wrong hands and it has just as much propensity to kill someone as a pitbull! also you will find pitbulls were trained to fight dogs, not humans a true pitbull will be barely bigger than a large staffy! have a look at presa canario or bourbells or some of the mastiff breeds that were bred as guard dogs and are still legal yet no one complains about them! i think the main reasons pitbulls got "banned" (completely unpoliced) is that they were more popular with ****s and that they have an agressive sounding name so it was easier for the government to shut the press/public up by banning them! and guys please dont believe all you read in the papers, its not only steroids that are hyped up massively!


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## noturbo

danimal said:


> i can assure there are many dog breeds not on the dda that are far more dangerous to humans in the wroing hands! imo dog is brought up to teh way it behaves, you get a pitbull in the right hands and its a loving companion! put a lab in the wrong hands and it has just as much propensity to kill someone as a pitbull! also you will find pitbulls were trained to fight dogs, not humans a true pitbull will be barely bigger than a large staffy! have a look at presa canario or bourbells or some of the mastiff breeds that were bred as guard dogs and are still legal yet no one complains about them! i think the main reasons pitbulls got "banned" (completely unpoliced) is that they were more popular with ****s and that they have an agressive sounding name so it was easier for the government to shut the press/public up by banning them! and guys please dont believe all you read in the papers, its not only steroids that are hyped up massively!


 Totally agree, there are many breeds with much more man stopping power and much more natural aggression. Like the Caucasian Ovcharka for example. If a chav had one of those then it would no doubt harm or kill someone


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## adamdutton

i have 3 staffies and 1 american bulldog, my dad has 4 staffies, my sister has a staffie my other brother has 3 staffies and my other brother has a staffie and my other brother has a shar-pei, all these dogs were originally bred for fighting, and funnily enough none of our dogs have ever SAVAGED kids and none of us are chavs,

we all have these dogs as they are the most loving and caring dogs you could want, my dogs will jump out of a 6ft kennel to great me when i get home thats how much they love us, i could never have another breed of dog now as it simply wouldnt be good enough,

i work my dogs hard they go swimming do weight pulling do the A frame and do sprints and all of them are in superb condition, you will probably notice the dogs that the chavs walk round are overweight staffies as thats all they do walk them round the streets trying to be hard, they are working dogs and need to be worked otherwise they simply wont be happy.


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## adamdutton

this is how good staffies are ive never seen a jack russel be like this with children have you?


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## bigwool

i've got a staff and i crossed her with a full pit.(mine which i gave away)

i kept one of the pups and she is honestly the best dog i have ever owned.

she's great with kids and loves to be played with and cuddled.

great guard dog too and very well behaved,but she IS a bit naughty when it comes to other dogs so she has to stay on her lead when we're out.

her mum(my staff)is the picture in my avatar and she's doing her smiley face to show she's nice


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## mattman

chavvy dogs


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## noturbo

mattman said:


> chavvy dogs


 :cursing:


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## diaita

noturbo said:


> I have a staffy mate and no its not the hard man image, its the character and the personality of the dog. Also how good they are as family pets and around kids. Of all the dog breeds the kennel club only recomends 2 breeds of dog with families with kids, one of which is the staffordshire bull terrier! They are not called the "nanny dog" for no reason
> 
> They are not monsters and dont go round everyday savaging children :cursing:


At last a person who knows the breed,I used to show staffies and the amount of people that would comment and take pics, when my kids kept him company in his show cage he even went out of his way to give a young child that was crawling around at crufts a kiss.Its very hard to get a staffies to bite a human,they tend to shake really bad even if you raise your voice or tell the kids of.


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## noturbo

diaita said:


> At last a person who knows the breed,I used to show staffies and the amount of people that would comment and take pics, when my kids kept him company in his show cage he even went out of his way to give a young child that was crawling around at crufts a kiss.Its very hard to get a staffies to bite a human,they tend to shake really bad even if you raise your voice or tell the kids of.


Bailey runs and hides as soon as he heres a carrier bag rustling :lol: Hardly a man eater lol


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## diaita

noturbo said:


> Bailey runs and hides as soon as he heres a carrier bag rustling :lol: Hardly a man eater lol


hahah i think they are all the same m8,does he play with other dogs,mine plays with most he lets my sister bechions bite him,but if theres a bull breed or other staffie ive got to be on my gaurd.


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## _kevinjames_

been reading this post with interest and im glad to say that the replies are mainly intelligent and not naive. the media portrays both staffs and pits as these agressive baby eaters when people dont know the true circumstances of the attacks. i have 2 staffs and i wouldnt have any other breed. their full of character and anyone who has owned one for the right reasons will tell you they are soft as ****. my male staff is scared of wheelie bins and lamposts. here are my two, i love showing them off.


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## diaita

the one on the right has a lovely head looks like a mohogany brindle?


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## noturbo

They are gorgeous mate!! :thumb:


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## danimal

that one on the right looks like the perfect staff to me lol not taht the one on the left has anything wrong with im lol still lush


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## noturbo

diaita said:


> hahah i think they are all the same m8,does he play with other dogs,mine plays with most he lets my sister bechions bite him,but if theres a bull breed or other staffie ive got to be on my gaurd.


Yeah he loves other dogs, but like you say bull breeds seem to be a bit stand offish. Just the other day there was an EBT staring at him and he just sat there and stared back, could have cut the atmosphere with a knife :lol:


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## diaita

noturbo said:


> Yeah he loves other dogs, but like you say bull breeds seem to be a bit stand offish. Just the other day there was an EBT staring at him and he just sat there and stared back, could have cut the atmosphere with a knife :lol:


mine kept me on my toes in the ring at the bigger shows,hes a bugger for staring at other staffies waiting for eye contact then he'd lung,in a ring with 50 or more dogs it's hard work.


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## _kevinjames_

yes hes mahogany brindle i suppose, never seen any the same like. you said you used to show them, are they rare. u wouldnt think he was the nonregistered dog out of the two. hes not two yet so might get a touch bigger but hes in good condition and im pleased how he is. hes more athletic and stronger than most the bully ones hes played with.


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## diaita

_kevinjames_ said:


> yes hes mahogany brindle i suppose, never seen any the same like. you said you used to show them, are they rare. u wouldnt think he was the nonregistered dog out of the two. hes not two yet so might get a touch bigger but hes in good condition and im pleased how he is. hes more athletic and stronger than most the bully ones hes played with.


Not many about,a really nice dog m8,KC papers are only important for show or show breeding with really,as you can trace back ancestry its all about selective breeding towards the perfect standard,at present casanova at cross guns would be a name to look for.can't remember how many but he holds the most CCs(1st over all winner at champ show level)


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## BLUE(UK)

My dog before she was eventually put down due to ill health.She was young in the picture but lived to 10years old.










She was the best dog anyone could wish for.

My brothers dog......


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## barney-rubble

my m8 has an american pit ball and has had it for years! but getting caught is a chance u have to take


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## noturbo

Another two gorgeous staffs, both look in great condition :thumbup1:


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## Karen

noturbo said:


> Yeah he loves other dogs, but like you say bull breeds seem to be a bit stand offish. Just the other day there was an EBT staring at him and he just sat there and stared back, could have cut the atmosphere with a knife :lol:


I don't agree with bull breeds being standoffish. If anything it would be the more terrier type that would want to be in your face.

If the breed is to survive not being outlawed it has to be done with positive examples. They are no different to any other dog and it really is all about how your raise them, not what they are. You have to in my opinion play down all the "tough rumours" of the breed and show others what a great family pet they would make. Simple things like not parading them around in those stupid big thick leather collars/harnesses and huge chains... if your dog is trained it doesn't need some big thick chain hanging off it. It is our responsibility as staffy owners to help protect this wonderful breed !

Mine doesn't bark (far too much effort), has never growled at another dog or person, sleeps for england and snores like a pig. She would lick you to death and that is probably as vicious as she would get.

I hope that someday soon another breed of dog will become fashionable and staffs will be left alone - so many in rescue now because of bad press reporting and rumours that are unfounded


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## BLUE(UK)

noturbo said:


> Another two gorgeous staffs, both look in great condition :thumbup1:


Thanks. :beer:


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## noturbo

Karen said:


> I don't agree with bull breeds being standoffish. If anything it would be the more terrier type that would want to be in your face.


Nooo you misunderstood what i said, bullbreeds are great lol! I own one myself and will own staffies for the rest of my life. I meant that my dog is friendly with all dogs but is wary around other bull breeds, especially males. I think you took what i said out of context


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## Patch

I don't disagree with CERTAIN people owning these types of dog but their are a few ar5eholes who think its a status symbol and drag and kick it around til it becomes bad tempered. However a staff attack my oldest girl when she was playing on a swing in a public park. My wife had to hold my daughter (6 years old) up in the air for 5 minutes (i was in work so can't vouch for this) cos the ****ing [email protected] that owned it didn't do sh1t. So as far as im concerned i've got NO fvcking time for them. I have also been put off by Rottweilers...i had to explain that my labrador was playing with the fvcking thing when it SMASHED through my garden fence and (i'll just say abused and bit) my dog. When i come home from work, this is the last **** i need!

There is no need to own these dogs IMO...ffs they don't even look pleasant after they leave their puppy years!

Just my opinion, but i don't like the fvckers, and never will (dogs or the irresponsible owners)!


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## Patch

I don't disagree with CERTAIN people owning these types of dog but their are a few ar5eholes who think its a status symbol and drag and kick it around til it becomes bad tempered. However a staff attack my oldest girl when she was playing on a swing in a public park. My wife had to hold my daughter (6 years old) up in the air for 5 minutes (i was in work so can't vouch for this) cos the ****ing [email protected] that owned it didn't do sh1t. So as far as im concerned i've got NO fvcking time for them. I have also been put off by Rottweilers...i had to explain that my labrador was playing with the fvcking thing when it SMASHED through my garden fence and (i'll just say abused and bit) my dog. When i come home from work, this is the last sh1t i need, trying to explain why Buster is walking funny! (this may sound like im taking the p1ss...BUT I FVCKING AINT)

There is no need to own these dogs IMO...ffs they don't even look pleasant after they leave their puppy years!

Just my opinion, but i don't like the fvckers, and never will (dogs or the irresponsible owners)!


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## stone14

diaita said:


> the one on the right has a lovely head looks like a mohogany brindle?


what is one of those??


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## noturbo

stone14 said:


> what is one of those??


Its the colour


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## stone14

gdgd lol


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## itraininthedark

i have mates who live around the corner that have pitts, and they've bred them for years.. the dogs have been fine so far, but their trained hard and kept mussled when out on the street, ........persoanlly i think the dog is a as bad as the owner.. if the owner dont give a **** and treats the dog like ****, the dog will turn nasty, and unfortunately a pitty can turn very very nasty


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## leveret

adamdutton said:


> this is how good staffies are ive never seen a jack russel be like this with children have you?


i only watched the 2nd one but seemed to me the dog was following a small child who was clearly terrified.


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## noturbo

Liam said:


> i only watched the 2nd one but seemed to me the dog was following a small child who was clearly terrified.


Is that a joke?


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## Merouria

noturbo said:


> Is that a joke?


I would have thought so mate, the girl in the vid is clearly happy! I used to have a staff, amazing dog, she loved people and kids and would never be aggressive. She sadly died in March but she will never be forgotten probably will be the best dog i will ever have but my new dog (Bernese Mountain dog) will have a chance to prove me wrong. He is 10 weeks old and is a terror at the moment chews everything and anything despite the fact he has 6 chewable toys!


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## noturbo

Merouria said:


> I would have thought so mate, the girl in the vid is clearly happy! I used to have a staff, amazing dog, she loved people and kids and would never be aggressive. She sadly died in March but she will never be forgotten probably will be the best dog i will ever have but my new dog (Bernese Mountain dog) will have a chance to prove me wrong. He is 10 weeks old and is a terror at the moment chews everything and anything despite the fact he has 6 chewable toys!


I thought so but its hard to tell without a lol or a smiley lol

Typical puppy that isnt it mate, Bailey chewed anything but his toys when he was a young puppy lol, trainers and the couch were his favourite :laugh: Should be better in a couple of months though :thumbup1:

Sorry to here about your staffy too!


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## donggle

adamdutton said:


> here is a good example of what i mean below are some pictures and some are staffies and some are pitbulls the problem is even the so called profesionals cant tell the differance so they would all be just classed as pitbull types


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## donggle

noturbo said:


> I thought so but its hard to tell without a lol or a smiley lol
> 
> Typical puppy that isnt it mate, Bailey chewed anything but his toys when he was a young puppy lol, trainers and the couch were his favourite :laugh: Should be better in a couple of months though :thumbup1:
> 
> Sorry to here about your staffy too!


we had a wooden surround on our fireplace, i say had because mine chewed it to bits. he loves it when you put a sausage or a treat in an empty plastic bottle, he'll have the top off in seconds and be licking the inside for ages. this morning he woke me up, ran into the garden and wouldn't leave the hosepipe alone until i turned it on and squirted him. he chases the falling water everywhere, i'll video it and get it up.


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## Robsta

Two things, I really don't see why people cross staffs with pit.

The only reason is so they can say "it's half pit man, well 'ard" as there is no other logical explanation. Why cross two great dogs to make half and half.

Also, there is a simple solution to the dangerous dogs act, which i have put up on this board before.

DOG LICENCING.---make evry single dog owner pay a fee (this will stop chavs on dole, as a dog is a luxury and if you can't afford it you shouldn't be able to have it)

Also, for every breed specific, such as larger,energetic dogs, premises should be viewed so it is adequate (stop 2 rotties in 7th floor council flats)

Basically, vet the people and premises so they can determine if the premises are fit for a dog, the owner has the time to walk the dog, and the owner can afford the dog....quite simple really.

Any altercations involving the dog, then they go on a points system similar to driving licence, once a limit is reached, no more doggies for you.......quite simple really, but I wouldn't expect labour to think of it...


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## Robsta

I have an Akita, had rotties before but they died of old age.

My Akita is superb, but if he sees another dog, he wants to eat it, this is why they need to be owned by responsible owners. (not me, the wife....lol)

But all dogs that are quite handy, need to be treated with respect and trained correctly. This is the problem, people buy the dog, then think that's it, when buying it is jusst the start of being a responsible owner. Far too many people have dogs in this country that can't even look after themselves.

As my above post says, the only way to sort out the mess, and stop dogs being blamed for their sh1te owners is to bring in licencing.......


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## noturbo

Good plan Robsta, totally agree!


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## noturbo

estfna said:


> we had a wooden surround on our fireplace, i say had because mine chewed it to bits. he loves it when you put a sausage or a treat in an empty plastic bottle, he'll have the top off in seconds and be licking the inside for ages. this morning he woke me up, ran into the garden and wouldn't leave the hosepipe alone until i turned it on and squirted him. he chases the falling water everywhere, i'll video it and get it up.


Bailey is the same with water, you should get one of those bubble making machines and watch your dog go nuts trying to eat every last bubble before it hits the floor, Bailey loves it :lol:


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## Robsta

It's such a simple solution, it wouldn't cost the gov't a thing as the fee would make it self sufficient. With all the furore over so called dangerous dogs (I don't believe in dangerous dogs, just idiotic,thick, irresponsible owners) you'd think this would already be up and running. But as dogs aren't gay, lesbian, foreign, own land with oil on it, or have a different religion the gov't for some reason don't seem interested...


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## maccer

Robsta said:


> I have an Akita, had rotties before but they died of old age.
> 
> My Akita is superb, but if he sees another dog, he wants to eat it, this is why they need to be owned by responsible owners. (not me, the wife....lol)
> 
> But all dogs that are quite handy, need to be treated with respect and trained correctly. This is the problem, people buy the dog, then think that's it, when buying it is jusst the start of being a responsible owner. Far too many people have dogs in this country that can't even look after themselves.
> 
> As my above post says, the only way to sort out the mess, and stop dogs being blamed for their sh1te owners is to bring in licencing.......


I have an akita - absolutely love her, need to be brought up firm!! She is over aggressive with other dogs but I introduced her to a lab pup the other day after 30mins they got on fine, but the akita has to let the other dogs know she is the boss!!

Had a a banddogge (sp?) that I used to look after at uni - absolutely amazing boy, great in the house but again bad with other dogs.

I agree about the dog licensing that is a simple and logical solution.


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## wyllis100

Whilst I agree that the majority of the time the owners can be blamed for the behaviour of their dog it is not the case every time.

I have owned dogs and had this Jack Russell bitch from pup who was a nightmare. She was just an evil little bas**rd thing!!! Sold her on pretty sharp.

And although I agree with the people saying that they have lovely dogs and they wouldnt hurt anything IMO why take a chance with kids? I know that little girl was happy but it would only take one moment for that dog to turn and half of that little girls face would be gone!!! Made me feel uneasy.

I also find it hard to believe that dog licencing would work. How would you police it? There are people on here saying they have or know someone with American pitbulls etc. Plus if you think that the buck stops at Chavs with no money being the only irresponsible owners you are wrong. It would cost the government millions, the licence fees would be a minor amount clawed back against what it would cost for sub contracted organisations to do this job.


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## itraininthedark

im getting a cane corso hopefully over next few months!! cant wait!!


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## stone14

what does one of those look like? pics?


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## noturbo

stone14 said:


> what does one of those look like? pics?


Huge lol, one for the experienced dog owner me thinks!


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## Trenzyme

noturbo said:


> Huge lol, one for the experienced dog owner me thinks!


 WTF IS THAT??!!


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## Trenzyme

Ive own a staffy bitch and a have a mate who breeds english pits, ive never met a bad pit just bad owners, Ive never seen any one other than in the news that has been attact by a bull/pit breed but qiute a few that have been by so called socail dogs ..labs,terriers ect


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## adamdutton

estfna the first dog in the pics you put up is a staffie the second is an apbt

and to liam your post saying my daughter was terrifieid is the stupidest thing i have ever heard cant you hear her laughing? my dogs even know not to jump up at her, they listen to her more than they listen to me, she can get all 4 of my dogs to do anything she wants.

seems like a lot of people actually know what they are on about but you will always get people who dont have a clue and thats where all the damage and bad naming of bull breeds comes from.

alot of people nowadays see breeding dogs as a money making thing so they will breed any dog together as long as it has got papers thats all that matters, they dont consider temperment testing and testing for genetic diseases, and thats why there are so many poor examples of bull breeds out there. the best thing to do if you want a bull breed is do alot of reaserch on the type of dog you want and make sure they have perfect temperment and make sure the parents have perfect temperment.

and what ever you do dont buy a bull breed dog of a piczo site as you could be getting anything


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## adamdutton

check these poor dogs out



















an example of people not caring about the dogs some people actually try breed dogs like this


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## adamdutton

some pics of my dogs

my american bulldog










my 3 staffies from working lines





































and my old american bulldog


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## trickymicky69

itraininthedark said:


> im getting a cane corso hopefully over next few months!! cant wait!!


they remind me of the cane presa canarian type dogs. very loyal but will only bond with one family in its lifetime. very protective and very difficult to look after because their will is so strong.


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## donggle

wyllis100 said:


> Whilst I agree that the majority of the time the owners can be blamed for the behaviour of their dog it is not the case every time.
> 
> I have owned dogs and had this Jack Russell bitch from pup who was a nightmare. She was just an evil little bas**rd thing!!! Sold her on pretty sharp.
> 
> And although I agree with the people saying that they have lovely dogs and they wouldnt hurt anything IMO why take a chance with kids? I know that little girl was happy but it would only take one moment for that dog to turn and half of that little girls face would be gone!!! Made me feel uneasy.
> 
> I also find it hard to believe that dog licencing would work. How would you police it? There are people on here saying they have or know someone with American pitbulls etc. Plus if you think that the buck stops at Chavs with no money being the only irresponsible owners you are wrong. It would cost the government millions, the licence fees would be a minor amount clawed back against what it would cost for sub contracted organisations to do this job.


i can hand on heart say that if i did ever have a baby i would have no problem whatsoever leaving my dog in a room alone with the baby in a pram etc. if anything i'd come back in and the baby would be covered in slobber.


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## diaita

itraininthedark said:


> im getting a cane corso hopefully over next few months!! cant wait!!


great dogs,massive, powerful and very loyal dog,would defo introduce to other dogs and humans from a very early age(puppy classes are good)


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## diaita

Robsta said:


> Two things, I really don't see why people cross staffs with pit.
> 
> The only reason is so they can say "it's half pit man, well 'ard" as there is no other logical explanation. Why cross two great dogs to make half and half.
> 
> Also, there is a simple solution to the dangerous dogs act, which i have put up on this board before.
> 
> DOG LICENCING.---make evry single dog owner pay a fee (this will stop chavs on dole, as a dog is a luxury and if you can't afford it you shouldn't be able to have it)
> 
> Also, for every breed specific, such as larger,energetic dogs, premises should be viewed so it is adequate (stop 2 rotties in 7th floor council flats)
> 
> Basically, vet the people and premises so they can determine if the premises are fit for a dog, the owner has the time to walk the dog, and the owner can afford the dog....quite simple really.
> 
> Any altercations involving the dog, then they go on a points system similar to driving licence, once a limit is reached, no more doggies for you.......quite simple really, but I wouldn't expect labour to think of it...[/quot
> 
> i seem to remember when i was a kid,that you needed a dog license?


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## diaita

Robsta said:


> I have an Akita, had rotties before but they died of old age.
> 
> *My Akita is superb, but if he sees another dog, he wants to eat it, this is why they need to be owned by responsible owners*. (not me, the wife....lol)
> 
> But all dogs that are quite handy, need to be treated with respect and trained correctly. This is the problem, people buy the dog, then think that's it, when buying it is jusst the start of being a responsible owner. Far too many people have dogs in this country that can't even look after themselves.
> 
> As my above post says, the only way to sort out the mess, and stop dogs being blamed for their sh1te owners is to bring in licencing.......


thats bang on rob,any breed of dog that was origanaly bred to fight other dogs can not be trusted around other dogs,and in dead needs a responsable owner.


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## warren

i have always had german shepards around me since i was born and unfortunatley just lost my last one , he had to be put down due to old age but we are getting another one soon, can i just say though

( not to any one specific just in general) ; i dont care how soft some one says their dog is or what breed they are NO dog should be left around a child alone as they are still unpredictable, the reason staffies and rotties etc etc have got a bad name is they dont show much facial expression of being annoyed untill the last moment when their choppers come out and they are by this time pi$$ed, but still cant judge the dog. my last german shepard was the softest dog ever, obedient , but he was also the biggest iv seen and i have had a few but id never leave him with strangers or kids alone.

happy dog owning though


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## mark3571

megatron said:


> That's cool, I didn't know staffies were so safe. Of course pitbulls are a different story.


depends how you look at it

if you look at the history of the pit bull terrier here

http://www.pitbullregistry.com/PitBull%20History.htm

you will see that the pit bull and the staffy are supposedly closely related, with some saying they are one and the same dog, just the american ones were bred bigger.


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## mark3571

estfna said:


> those 2 pictures, what are they? my dog has the face of the 1st but the exact colouration and high hip as the second one. the only difference between mine and the 2nd one is the face and that mine has a few spots.
> 
> mine is 100% legal though as he was abandoned as a pup and we got him through dogstrust.


just because you got him from dogstrust dosent make him legal, if a warden or plod deems him a pit type, you have to prove he isnt, and that is a hard thing to do as far as im aware.

im in the same boat as you though, i got one from a very well known recue centre and to me he looks like a pit, but he was described as a staffy.


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## _kevinjames_

adamdutton said:


> some pics of my dogs
> 
> my american bulldog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my 3 staffies from working lines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and my old american bulldog


**** me mate, how you get that second bulldog so well conditioned. i assume you do weight pulling and other conditioning work with your dogs. what techniques do you employ??? do you hav a springpole???


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## stone14

what is a springpole?

could you put a harness on your dog and attach chain and weights? is that what you mean by weight pulling?

what other conditioning work is there?


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## mark3571

weight pulling as far as im aware is as you say a trollet with weights on harnessed to your dog, and i think its timed over a set distance and quickest wins.

i could be wrong though


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## adamdutton

yes he did weight pulling also swimming A frame spring pole and sprints.

the spring pole is where you attatch a strong spring like a spring off a garage door to a tree or something high with a rope on the end then the dog jumps up and hangs on to it and it bounces up and down while keeping there back legs just touching the floor, i will put some videos up for you.


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## noturbo

The weights you see some pitbulls pull is insane, there will be plenty of videos of it on youtube!


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## adamdutton

spring pole and A frame

the weight pulling competitions are done over a set distance (16ft) and the dog has a minuite to pull it the distance and basically the dog that pulls the most weight within the time limit wins, one of my staffies has gained 3 titles from weight pulling and she has qualified for the national championships, and if she wins there she will be british weight pull champion


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## adamdutton

one of my staffie in competition


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## diaita

Is ray holmes still goin


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## Britbb

megatron said:


> Whats the obsession with dangerous dogs ffs? Why does every person in the UK seem to have to own a pitbull (cross)... There are tons of dogs that don't savage people. I don't get it. IS it the hardman image or something?


Totally agree mate.

WHAT IS THIS OBSESSION PEOPLE HAVE, PARTICULAR ON MUSCLE FORUMS FOR WANTING PITBULLS?

Dont get a pit/staffie cross! The reason people bred staffies with pitbulls are that they took the worst pitbulls with the worst mentalities (ie the crazy fighting ones which are not true breed qualities) which are not proper bred pitbulls and started breeding them with staffies...this has in turn ruined some of the staffie gene pool aswell, because the pitbull staffie cross is the result of a 'ardman' mixing both breeds to allow him to keep his beloved 'ardman pitbull in this country...basically bringing in the worst elements of the pitbull's behaviour into the staffie gene pool. Which has also tarnished the staffie's rep now aswell, sad because true staffies with good temperament are very good around humans and kids.

DONT BELIEVE ME...LOOK IT UP AND YOULL SEE IM TELLING THE TRUTH!!!

Why dont you go the whole way and get a timber wolf instead?

Or how about a lion cub?

A gorilla?

A baby nile crocodile?

A funnel-web spider?

A taipan snake?

You could go to the pub and down a few brews afterwards pull out a little matchbox...inside the matchbox is your ultimate 'ardman pet!!!

Out crawls on a little leash made of a chain of paper clips a giant funnelweb spider that youve squashed up into the match box so it becomes really aggressive when it comes out...then you could walk the spider with its paperclip leash across the bar and show people your brilliant exotic funnelweb spider pet???

HOW BOUT THAT??? :lol: :wink:


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## warren

i have just been on holiday to spain and here is my new pet










hahahahaha


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## diaita

at least is muzzled very responsable


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## donggle

^ funny you should say that brit, i've always wanted an arctic wolf as a pet. they are beautiful animals.


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## Robsta

Beautiful animals, but not really pet material....

Could always look at a Czech Wolfdog instead....


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## wyllis100

Estfna?? WTF?? Have you got kids? I personally would never leave any kind of animal with teeth and power that could rip my children apart at the flick of an instinct switch alone with either one of them. Even if you are a dog lover and trust them completely you should always be with them around children. Like I said - its just not worth it.


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## Robsta

whilst my dog is superb with my children, I wouldn't take unnescessary risks and he is not generally alone with them at any time.....

Why risk it, just not worth it.


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## warren

my local butchers son is a copper and is letting us adopt one of the german shepards he trained but did not make the final pick for a police dog, and it is a puppy (ish lol) but we both agreed even though it is a very well trained dog , dont let it off the lead in public areas and dont leave it with kids. and this is a dog that will sit , stay , move stop, jump, roll over, bark etc etc etc on demand.


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## donggle

wylliss100

no i haven't got kids, but if i did (i have very very young sisters), i wouldn't make a point of taking the dog out of the living room while the child was in there whilst i went into the kitchen to make a cuppa.


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## 6083

Adam Dutton,

Not being funny but you had put those pics up of your american bulldog on a different forum and said you had to have it put down due to aggression?

On another note i have 2 German Shepherds and find it interesting on a nature/nurture front -- i would have origonally said that no matter what dog you have, it is the owner that is at fault-- but since owning them i have realised just how much is genetic with them regarding their protective and guarding instincts. they are both good natured and soft but if they hear a noise in the house, my male will literally jump down the enitre flight of stairs trying to get to it, they really do go mental when they think an intruder has come in, so god help anyone that breaks in!

ive also found taking 2 dogs out at once, how the pack mentality causes problems.

ie one dog on its own will do somthing and then stop, weras with 2 dogs, 1 will do somthing-- the other will then folllow suit, at the point the first one would stop, because it sees the 2nd dog doing it-- the 1st one then carries on.

I think with dogs and owners we are talking about control if you dont have control of your animal you shouldnt be in a situation with it where it can do anyone else any harm

I think Robstas licening idea is a good one because it can be used as a tool to remove and to prevent idiots getting certain dogs. i dont mean that it will stop anyone getting certain dogs across the board, but if somone is out with a nuisance dog they shouldnt have, then the police can use the licensing tool to prosecute them.

On the estate i live on--there must be at least 15 dogs, i can honestly say 10 of them are not taken outside their gardens AT ALL, in my opinion based on that example and other experiences i would say that 90% of the dog owning public do not exercise their dogs and socialise them properly, if you leave a dog in a cage,pen, garden all the time is gets very frustrated--when it finally gets out it does not know how to behave and will do innapropriate things.

My dogs are taken out 3 times a day for proper walks, not just nipping to the nearest bit of grass for it to have a crap like i see with most owners.


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## adamdutton

yes i had my old american bulldog pts for aggression and thats how much of a responible owner iam, i dont want any aggression at all in my dogs so when it showed signs i had him pts, i could have done what other people do and sell him for as much as £800 but once again iam a responsible owner and dont think it is fair or right to do that so the best thing to do was have him pts.

plus what point are you making in bringing it up? all you did is prove iam responible owner

if i said i had an american bulldog and he is aggressive then you would have a point but as you already knew i had him pts

so thank you for letting every know that iam a responsible owner and dont have these dogs for the hardman image.


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## warren

GTT said:


> Adam Dutton,
> 
> On another note i have 2 German Shepherds and find it interesting on a nature/nurture front -- i would have origonally said that no matter what dog you have, it is the owner that is at fault-- but since owning them i have realised just how much is genetic with them regarding their protective and guarding instincts. they are both good natured and soft but if they hear a noise in the house, my male will literally jump down the enitre flight of stairs trying to get to it, they really do go mental when they think an intruder has come in, so god help anyone that breaks in!


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## 6083

Yeah i agree with you it is mostly the owner but i was just saying that you cannot discount their genteic predisposition, however the animal always looks towards the owner for leadership if you are in fact the leader.


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## Robsta

The thing is, an american Bulldog is always likely to show aggression, this is in their make up. Same as Akita's and other fighting dogs. Now to get them put to sleep when they show what is in their nature just baffles me.

Obviously you handle it, i.e, muzzle the dog, don't let it around other people etc,.

If you didn't want a dog with any aggression.......get a kitten.

It's like getting an Alligator, then shooting it when it tries to eat someone. All dogs are that.......dogs, not humans, therefore can at some point show agression as it is how they communicate their point. Now being a responsible owner, if you cannot deal with aggression don't buy the fcukin thing in the 1st place. As said, I have an Akita, but I know if it gets within lunging distance of a dog it will have it, that's why he's muzzled. Also, we don't leave him p[urposely alone with the kids, although he adores them....just not worth the risk, plus I know if my daughter has any friends around, then outside the dog will stay until they've gone.

But to get a dog put down because it shows aggression is beyond me......wouldn't a labrador do, or cat ffs.


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## itraininthedark

stone14 said:


> what does one of those look like? pics?


sorry took so long didnt subscribe to thread so didnt know you'd asked mate. yeh these dogs not really advised for unexperienced owner, have had a pair before and there amazing dogs strong as hell, and lovely with the family, but hey will chaleenge you for the alpha male position if you give them any leeway.. great dogs though.


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## itraininthedark

Great Guard dogs too, i remember once i was away from home doing some minding work, me mam and ex mrs were home alone, two well known local crack heads who iv had lot of trouble with knew i was out of town, and tried to break into the house, my mum bless her was too scared to come down, she just watched from the window!! but from what she said it was not pretty what the dogs did to those two junkies.. i had the dogs trained to the tee, had them trained to guard and socialised everything, but dogs arent stupid they know when there families in danger. il always choose a cane corso over any other dog, its a dog you can rely on 1000%. If you are gonna buy one, always see the parents of the dogs first to make sure theres no anger management issues and that the dogs have been treated well


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## itraininthedark

Robsta said:


> The thing is, an american Bulldog is always likely to show aggression, this is in their make up. Same as Akita's and other fighting dogs. Now to get them put to sleep when they show what is in their nature just baffles me.


 :cursing:

fully agree mate, my uncle breeds all sorts of dogs and he rescues dogs also takes them from people considering having there dogs put down. In short, he says the best way is to always let the dog know you are the alpha male... hes on your turf, you feed him when you want.. let the dog suck up to you and ignore it, play with it when you wnat to play not when the dog wants to play etc. theres loads of techniques, but hes very experienced.. he holds the ideal no dog needs to put down and can always be turned to be a gentle dog if treated right. different dogs needed to be raised differently. ive found socialising with lots of other dogs and socialising with lots of people helps calm the temprement of the dog.. also not feeding them pedigree chum as this makes them go mental.. like kids on cola!!


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## BIG GRANT

i hate those chavey ****s walking around with there mean looking dogs, plus what people dnt realise is staffies are in my oppinion 1 of the most loving and caring breed of dog, its just the image these so called hard men are giving them. thought i would trow in 1 of my old english bulldog when i first got him 5 years ago. heres bobby


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## itraininthedark

BIG GRANT said:


> i hate those chavey ****s walking around with there mean looking dogs, plus what people dnt realise is staffies are in my oppinion 1 of the most loving and caring breed of dog, its just the image these so called hard men are giving them. thought i would trow in 1 of my old english bulldog when i first got him 5 years ago. heres bobby


yeh mate very true, everyone i know who has a staffy, there really loving happy and funny dogs.


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## noturbo

itraininthedark said:


> :cursing:
> 
> fully agree mate, my uncle breeds all sorts of dogs and he rescues dogs also takes them from people considering having there dogs put down. In short, he says the best way is to always let the dog know you are the alpha male... hes on your turf, you feed him when you want.. let the dog suck up to you and ignore it, play with it when you wnat to play not when the dog wants to play etc. theres loads of techniques, but hes very experienced.. he holds the ideal no dog needs to put down and can always be turned to be a gentle dog if treated right. different dogs needed to be raised differently. ive found socialising with lots of other dogs and socialising with lots of people helps calm the temprement of the dog.. also not feeding them pedigree chum as this makes them go mental.. like kids on cola!!


Yeah there are lots of ways to be alpha with your dog, like never letting your dog walk through doors first, and always feed your dog after everyone in the family has eaten first. And i agree pedigree chum is terrible, i only feed Bailey prize choice minced beef/tripe, bones and arden grange dry food.


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## stone14

itraininthedark said:


> sorry took so long didnt subscribe to thread so didnt know you'd asked mate. yeh these dogs not really advised for unexperienced owner, have had a pair before and there amazing dogs strong as hell, and lovely with the family, but hey will chaleenge you for the alpha male position if you give them any leeway.. great dogs though.
> 
> View attachment 15312
> 
> 
> View attachment 15313
> 
> 
> View attachment 15314


are these legal, how much can u get one for?


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## adamdutton

the thing is he wasnt aggressive with dogs that i could easily handle no problem he was very human aggressive and when you say show him you are alpha dog it just simply didnt work with him he would never back down, (i know as i got bit by him)

also if it was just strangers he was aggressive with i could also handle easily but he got aggressive with me and my wife and having a 2 year old girl at the time was a bit dodgy, if you have a dog that is like this and you simply just sell it on you are not a responsible owner and dont deserve to own a dog in the first place,how would you feel if you sold it then a month later it had attacked somebody? or killed a child? this is why people get attacked and the bull breeds have a bad name as there are some out there that are human aggressive and some idiots think it is normal or good and if you know anything about bullbreeds you will realise they are not supposed to be human aggresive that is down to bad breeding.

plus i very much doubt anybody could have even got a lead on him to take him if i did sell him


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## adamdutton

the american bulldog i have now has the perfect temperment and thats because of very selective and good breeding (how it should be done)

if you have ever been to a bull breed show one of the things they do is test the temperment of the dogs, i have been at shows where the judge pulls out a stick and goes towards the american bulldog and if it shows aggression it is kicked out and deemed no good.

american bulldogs are not supposed to be human aggressive, the only reason some are is because of bad breeding and people breeding them for money. and not caring about the dogs.

they are used or were used for

1) guarding but who says a dog has to be human aggressive to be a guard dog for example body guards they are there to protect people but they dont go round battering everybody do they. they only protect when they need to, like guard dogs.

2)hog hunting, again no need to be human aggressive how are you supposed to get the dog off the hog if it is human aggressive without it turning on you

3)fighting, again human aggression is a big no

they are supposed to be friendly assertive happy and at ease with people with a high prey drive


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## Robsta

If a bloke walked towaqrds my dog with a stick as in going to hit him, I'd hope my dog would have the sense to chew his arm off.

All you're on about there is training mate, it's nothing to do with good breeding,bad breeding.

Just because a dog rips someones head off, doesn't mean it's pups will.


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## adamdutton

it doesnt mean it will but there is a higher chance of it especially in the american bulldogs lines (not sure about other breeds) i know this as i have had experiance with it i found out that my dogs sire was pts for biting a little girls calf muscle off (this happened after i got him) and my dog was very socialised i went to shows and went to weight pull training nearly every week with strangers but still became human aggressive so it wasnt down to training it was already in his genes.

why do you think all reputable breeders of american bulldogs temperment test there dogs before breeding, so the ones with suspect temperments dont get bred from. and cant be passed down in the genes.


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## itraininthedark

stone14 said:


> are these legal, how much can u get one for?


yes mate they are legal, you lookin for good puppies bred from a good varied blood line with good hip scorings and from a good family between £1000 and £8000. its not set in stone though mate comes down to the breeder ultimately :thumb:


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## itraininthedark

adamdutton said:


> the thing is he wasnt aggressive with dogs that i could easily handle no problem he was very human aggressive and when you say show him you are alpha dog it just simply didnt work with him he would never back down, (i know as i got bit by him)
> 
> also if it was just strangers he was aggressive with i could also handle easily but he got aggressive with me and my wife and having a 2 year old girl at the time was a bit dodgy, if you have a dog that is like this and you simply just sell it on you are not a responsible owner and dont deserve to own a dog in the first place,how would you feel if you sold it then a month later it had attacked somebody? or killed a child? this is why people get attacked and the bull breeds have a bad name as there are some out there that are human aggressive and some idiots think it is normal or good and if you know anything about bullbreeds you will realise they are not supposed to be human aggresive that is down to bad breeding.
> 
> plus i very much doubt anybody could have even got a lead on him to take him if i did sell him


must have come from bad bloodline, or bad experience when the fella was a pup, my uncle would be the best to deal with dogs like this hes amazing with them, but his arms are scarred to hell from many bites, but he knows what hes doing... in my personal opinion though, some dogs, just like people are so far gone theres only so much you can do to help them.


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## adamdutton

was definatley bad bloodlines i didnt do the nesecary reaserch into the dog before i got him but you live and learn, also it didnt help that he was deaf.

im just glad it was me that got him as if it was somebody else good knows what could have happened.

he was an amazing dog though and a very keen worker and thats how i got him in the condition he was in.


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## Robsta

adamdutton said:


> im just glad it was me that got him as if it was somebody else good knows what could have happened.
> 
> .


Yeah, it might still be alive.....


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## adamdutton

doubt it it would have been seized by police and dog warden for attacking someone and then pts.

trust me i knew this dog and i know it would have done some serious damage to somebody if a responsible owner didnt have him.

i know your trying to say i dont know how to handle a dog but trust me i know more about these dogs than you ever will i have 3 staffies and an american bulldog at the moment and i keep all 4 of them in top condition they all have perfect temperments with humans, i know people who breed these dogs and who keep the best dogs in the country. i even got invited down to ed reids house to show my dogs (i bet you dont even know who he is)

lets just say bodybuilding is your speciality but dogs are mine.

these are some pics of the american bulldog that was pts














































he was the best conditioned american bulldog in the country. and still is havnt seen one in as good condition as him yet.


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## Robsta

Bottom end is, you got a dog or a breed that are known as difficult, then you got it killed because you couldn't handle it.

Mate, next time get a labrador or a kitten. I don't care how much you know about whatever breed, bottom end is you don't know enough about them or it would still be here......

The dog paid for your failures...


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## adamdutton

dont think so mate you dont know what you are talking about.

did you know labradors are also working dogs and to be happy and healthy also need to be worked.

i could handle him very easily just didnt want to risk my daughter getting hurt or risk selling him and anybody else getting hurt.

why do you have an akita then as you obviously know less about dogs than me your exact words were 'If a bloke walked towards my dog with a stick as in going to hit him, I'd hope my dog would have the sense to chew his arm off.'

then guess who would get locked up and have there dog seized off them and destroyed and be banned from having dogs.

have a read of this, this is how they temperment test your dogs

BACT 1;

You had to walk your dog in circles with other dogs close by , the dog must NOT be aggrsive in any way shape or form .

The dog must be under control at all times and heal

A stranger had to approach the dog in a mencing fashion , the dog must bark , then the stranger approaches normally the dog must let him be patted without aggresion ...

A stranger fires off two rounds from a Gun near to the dog . the dog must not back away or show aggresion and must not move towards to gun.the lead must stay slack ...if the dog moves forward or back he fails ...

==============================================

BACT 2

Test is held in a public place ie, market place, railway or bus station, supermarket parking

Dogs with a long leash & choke collar, no harness or pinch collar

Healing on leash in the street, stop and sit on traffic red lights

Dogs stay alone outside a shop, whilst handler is inside shop

Balanced reactions to traffic situations, noise, trucks, people

Dog is always under control and , if excited, can be calmed by handler

Drive by train / bus / metro (if possible)

Basic jump on obstacles

Stairs, escalator

Different undergrounds

Basic obedience (in a protected place, park, field)

Healing on leash, moving slow and fast, angles, through a group

sit and down, on leash or off leash.

Dogs stay alone sit or down: distance to handler 20 m

Handler recalls dog

2 gunshots: distance 50 m


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## stone14

itraininthedark said:


> yes mate they are legal, you lookin for good puppies bred from a good varied blood line with good hip scorings and from a good family between £1000 and £8000. :thumb:


wow, thats alot for a dog. i though british bulldog wer expensive at £1500-£2000


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## adamdutton

me and my brother rescued a staffordshire bull terrier that was bred for and used for dog fighting all its life it was very dog aggressive as you can imagine, we have had this dog for about 4 months now and it can now be let off with the other dogs to run free, when we got it it would just try kill any other dog,

now if that isnt proof of knowing how to handle these dogs nothing will be

here are a couple of pics of him


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## stone14

adamdutton said:


> 'If a bloke walked towards my dog with a stick as in going to hit him, I'd hope my dog would have the sense to chew his arm off.'
> 
> then guess who would get locked up and have there dog seized off them and destroyed and be banned from having dogs.


isnt it in a dogs or any animals instinct to defend itself, just because a dog attacks a man that is going to harm it, doesnt mean the dog is dangerous or bad and doesnt deserve to be pts does it?

fare enough if it was a guy walking down the road and the dog ran after him and savaged him then that was unprovoked, but if a dog is going to be attacked then its the guys fault not thr dogs??


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## Robsta

That's all well and good mate.. but don't tellme I don't know what I'm on aboput as I've had dogs all my life, and never had to get one put down yet.

If a bloke walked on my property with a stick raised to hit my dog, then I'd expect nothing more of him than to rip his arm off.......

I have signs up (disclaimers) stating the fact that I have a guard dog on site and any trespassers will be bitten, which in a court of law is what's required to warn people.

Without the disclaimer you're in trouble, with it you're not........

I have signs on my gate, drive, front window and back window (although it's impossible to get round the back without going through the front)

I sought legal advice on the subject as I have been in court over my dog, and this is what I was advised by the police.......


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## kawikid

This is a very interesting thread. There are clearly a few owners on here who i would never want to meet if i was out with my dog.

I have a greyhound. Big 65lb bitch, ex racer. There's none of this aggression, staring out etc. No growl or hackles up, displaying, just a look, ears up, locks on, then boom, 35-40mph towards the object. It was the silent assassin. Anything it saw, dog, paperbag, rabbit, platic cup blowing in the wind, etc and it would lock on and chase it down and try and shake it to bits. She would whimper, and rear up and shake, try to bite though the lead, jump,twist do anything to try and get to it. (no other dogs were harmed in the training of this greyhound). She was classed as very high preydrive by the retired greyhound trust and i was told these dog can never be turned around.

I put in the work, read books, went to seminars, i went up the the rescue centre and watched race dogs interact with each other regularly so i learned to read their signals. All dogs have basic signals, but some can vary breed to breed. A greyhound can be sensitive and can show signs of nervousness around other dogs, ears back, head turned away, only looking by turning eyes, slowing down movements. Most owners think this is submissive and fearfull. Then BANG. It turns into fear agression and the greyhound nails the other dog.

EVERY day. Every single day, christmas, the lot. I worked with her for 1 hour. No physical punishment, stading in a field with a stuffed rabbit skin on a length of fish line training her off to stop chasing. Taking her to new places, introducing her to the *right* dogs, the calm ones, first to socialise her.

After a full years worth of training i can now walk her offlead anywhere. I can read her body language and tell when she is starting to lock onto something and i can snap her out it immediatley. She will run and play with most other dogs, spaniels, collies, terriers, little lassa apso's.

*BUT*......... Like any dog she has a built in basic instinct. If i was walking her down the street and a cat burst out of a hedge and ran straight infront of her she would instantly try and nail it. There are certein things you cant change. It's like you walking down a dark alley and someone jumping out on you. Instinct will make you jump and get a fright, instinct will make her get chase something that moves fast. This is why you have to take a serious interest in the dog and be responsible. Once you put in the work it becomes really enjoyable to own a dog. In the 1st 6month of owning her it no fun.

There is a guy walk in the same ares with an Akita. His dog contantly shows major agression to any other dog, but he walks it on a sh*tty puny extendable lead. I spoke to him few times. He boasts, "Akita's hate other dogs", "They're bread from an area where there's no food so everyother dog is competition". But the dog drags him out the door 1st and pulls him constantlyon walks. IT is the boss, he has feck all interest in training it, he just gives it constant affection and treats.

The most important thing is exercise and limiting affection to the right times. I take her to the parks, river, woods and run her 2-3 times a day. She's exhausted by the end of it. I find other dogs are the problem, you just dont know how they have been trained and brought up. I could let her run over and sniff any dog, but if it's a strange dog i am blind to how that dog will react to her. Prob 70-80% of owners i meet have zero interest in training or learning about their pet.

I went to a seminar in the States by a guy called Ceszar Milan. That guy has the right idea. Treat a dog like a dog. Give it what IT needs, not what YOU need. Too many dogs get killed all because of their owners ignorance.


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## adamdutton

i have had dogs all my life and have never been in court with them so obviously i am doing something better than you.

you just said it all

i dont need signs as my dogs are trained well and would never attack anyone, they would bark and warn us instead of any problem then i would sort it out, you obviously cant handle and train your dog as you know it is human aggresive but do nothing about it. you cant even trust it to be left alone with your kids.

did you know they are trying to change the dog law now it it isnt breed specific any more if you have a dog that is aggressive no matter what breed it can be taken off you and pts

kawikid well done in what you achieved you are obviously a responsible owner and took the time to reaserch and put in the hard work well done


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## andyboro

In the past, I had an 'irish staff' as they were calling them at the time and she was great - zero aggression, no chewing - nothing at all.. I found this fairly amusing because the guy i got her from was giving her away because she was destroying his house on a regular basis.. All it took to change her attitude was a change of scenery and the right attitude from me..

I now have a male staff called benson who is the softest, most loving staff ive ever met (although he's busy trying to catch a fly as i type lol) - the bad rep these little guys get really infuriates me and i would absolutely sign up for the licensing if it came into place..

I dont profess to be an expert but all it really takes IMO is to incorporate some of the pack cultures into your life - i.e You eat first, dog eats when theyre told, you leave the house first for walks, walks are exactly that and not the dog dragging you around the streets and one of the most important ones for me.. when you enter the house, you say hello to your family first and the dog last!

to robsta.. im not gonna tell you you dont know what your doing mate but you say that you would exepect your akita to rip off the arm of a man trying to attack it with a stick..... does that mean that you also think your dog has enough intelligence to distinguish between that and say.. a child in the same situation?? IMO getting an animal destroyed in the situations described is 100% the right thing to do - any other course of action could lead to human injury/fatality and that really isnt acceptable.


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## mark3571

i currently have a 11 year old pit bull bitch who we got off some one as it was chewing everything in site apparently and messing in the house, we have had her 7 years and she never once chewed anything nor messed in the house (apart from the very ocasional accident) i believe she is from the patrick strain of dogs due to her copper eyes and red nose, she is the best children orientated dog i have seen, i trust her with my kids 100% and she has never shown any agression toward any of our family, but as a guard dog she is excellent.

sadly she has been diagnosed with lung cancer and will have to be pts very soon, i shall miss her and will never get another one like it


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## _kevinjames_

robsta you are wrong to blame adamdutton for putting his dog down cos it was the right thing to do.

kawikid i have a lot of respect for what you did as i know how hard it is too remain consistant in training.

adamdutton, im interested in working my dogs the same way as you starting with a springpole and maybe building an a-frame. my other concern is diet for my staffs. what diet do you use for yours????


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## noturbo

Just thought I would add a pic of my viscous dog attacking a child :lol:


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## diaita

m8 im sorry but thats not on,you can see the blood around that little boys mouth hes obviously been fighting with another child,putting a staff in that situation is asking for trouble,does the little boy get on with older children or does he only attack ones his age. LOL great pic m8


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## noturbo

diaita said:


> m8 im sorry but thats not on,you can see the blood around that little boys mouth hes obviously been fighting with another child,putting a staff in that situation is asking for trouble,does the little boy get on with older children or does he only attack ones his age. LOL great pic m8


 :thumb:

Sorry about the chocolate, he tends to inhale chocolate profiteroles and half of it always ends up all over his face :lol:


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## diaita

noturbo said:


> :thumb:
> 
> Sorry about the chocolate, he tends to inhale chocolate profiteroles and half of it always ends up all over his face :lol:


Its a great pic m8 shows the breed to a T


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## adamdutton

well they have been getting fed a raw diet but he place i get it from is going down hill a bit (not enough food and it is going off very quickly) so i have just put them back on a complete food diet to see how they get on its a food called healthy options and is a total natural food with no fillers.

you will see a big differance in your dogs once you start doing these activities they will love you even more and will be really fit, it could take a while to get them doing it but once they start you wont beable to stop them.

here is a pic i found of mine


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## noturbo

Great pic :thumb:

Bailey used to eat rubbish because we had a real problem finding something he would like and stick too, now we feed him prize choice raw mince which has nothing but minced meat in it, you buy it in frozen packets and he does really well on it. Loves the beef or tripe, his coat is really shiney and his condition is pretty good for a 6 month old puppy so id recomend that to anyone

We also give him Arden Grange dry food sometimes too as a snack or if we run out of mince


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## 6083

Just wanted to raise a couple of points.. to Adam

Bull Breed shows-- i assume are about weight pulling, feats of physical strength aswell as asthetics.

What in your opinion would be the incidence of steroid use in these dogs?

I know from reading that people who breed for Dog fights use steroids with their dogs.

id also like to bring up a general point between somone that keeps a dog as a family pet and a breeder or somone that shows their dogs.

Take my GSD breeder for example--they have 12 GSDs, the origonal male they started showing has been eclipsed by another male they have bought that is genetically superior, so they have sold their origonal dog to another person.

personally from a family dog owners point of view i would never ever do this as my dog is part of my family- i would literally live on the street before i gave up either of my dogs.

so my point is to a breeder/show`er a dog is more of a 'thing' than a family member, i know our GSD breeder loves their dogs but i dont think its exactly in the same way i love mine. for starters i would never keep a dog chained up/living outside - i understand people who have working dogs keep them outside which keeps them from being soft (so ive heard) so what when the dog has outlived its usefulness--do they get rid of it--seems most do.

so i think a distinction needs to be made between a family pet and a working dog/show dog

i also think there is a big difference in the animal world to a person raising a stick at a dog with the sole intention of causing the dog damage and somone at a show showing fake aggression towards a dog in a temperament test.

a dog can feel aggression and fear in another dog and another person-- a stable dog will be able to read the intention of somone in that situation.


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## adamdutton

people who show there dogs generally love there dogs more than the average pet owner and thats why they show, breeders that could be a different story as some are in it just to make money, all the breeders i know breed the dogs to improve them in any way so they would breed and always keep at least one back for future breeding.

i know the person who owns the strongest dog pound for pound in europe and he has never or never will use steroids in fact i dont know anyone who does. it would probably cause serious damage in a short period of time as there organs are much smaller.

im not sure where you read that people who fight dogs use steroids as this is untrue, fighting dogs are meant to be lean and athletic and strong but a dog with a lot of muscle is no good as they get tired quicker (same as humans for example a marathon runner can go for longer than a sprinter)

you are correct in what you say about people getting rid of dogs once they have surved there purpose but this is usually in racing dogs, it is totally different for bull breed dogs as they form a real bond.


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## stone14

adamdutton said:


> here is a pic i found of mine


lol those 2 little staffies look exactly like my gf staffie who is 3. she is a small staffielike them, is that big guy a staffie also? big diff in size


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## 6083

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6960788.stm

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news?articleid=2962754

just google steroids and dog fighting, sounds like the norm to me, steroids only make you bulky if its the right kind of steroid taken with sufficient calories-- look at proffessional cyclists-- the epitome of endurance--they take steroids- notably test, in a dog the increased aggression from gear would put it at an advantage in a fight, it would also benefit from a stonger bite.


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## adamdutton

yes he is a staffy they are actually all litter mates, the one in red is the smallest and the one in the green has nearly caught up to the other one in size now.

steriods in dog fighting definatley isnt normal the media can basically write anything they want because if your not involved or know people who used to be involved you have to go by what they write.

the dogs that are used for fighting are purposely bred for fighting and very very selectively bred, they will only use dogs that are proved winners and when they have a litter they will pick the ones which are best and usually cull the others, the dogs they choose for fighting are naturally very dog aggressive and very human friendly if they dont have both these traits they wont be used so there is really no need to add steriods and such to make them more aggressive as they already are.

but people will still do it i dont dis agree with you there but it is not normal and is actually frowned upon.

just to be clear i only know this from research and from people who used to be involved in this barbaric sport, i never have or never will be involved in this sort of thing.


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## diaita

GTT said:


> id also like to bring up a general point between somone that keeps a dog as a family pet and a breeder or somone that shows their dogs.
> 
> Family pet first and foremost showdog second,no longer show him because he didnt like it
> 
> Take my GSD breeder for example--they have 12 GSDs, the origonal male they started showing has been eclipsed by another male they have bought that is genetically superior, so they have sold their origonal dog to another person.
> 
> This definatly goes on,another thing you may not know a show champ(STUD DOG) in any country may be shipped to another countrys(SHOW KENNEL),to hopefully become a champ in that country,this is IMO the greed behind show dogs.Its all about stud fee's and recognition of your kennel
> 
> personally from a family dog owners point of view i would never ever do this as my dog is part of my family- i would literally live on the street before i gave up either of my dogs.
> 
> so my point is to a breeder/show`er a dog is more of a 'thing' than a family member,
> 
> I would'nt put breeder and show'er in the same cat,
> 
> yes breeders do give out there older dogs some to responsable homes who actualy wait for them to retire the dog, i would say 70% of show dogs are family pets
> 
> i know our GSD breeder loves their dogs but i dont think its exactly in the same way i love mine. for starters i would never keep a dog chained up/living outside - i understand people who have working dogs keep them outside which keeps them from being soft (so ive heard) so what when the dog has outlived its usefulness--do they get rid of it--seems most do.
> 
> * POLICE DOGS*
> 
> so i think a distinction needs to be made between a family pet and a working dog/show dog
> 
> I woud'nt put show dog and working dog in the same cat
> 
> i also think there is a big difference in the animal world to a person raising a stick at a dog with the sole intention of causing the dog damage and somone at a show showing fake aggression towards a dog in a temperament test.
> 
> a dog can feel aggression and fear in another dog and another person-- a stable dog will be able to read the intention of somone in that situation.


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## itraininthedark

GTT said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6960788.stm
> 
> http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news?articleid=2962754
> 
> just google steroids and dog fighting, sounds like the norm to me, steroids only make you bulky if its the right kind of steroid taken with sufficient calories-- look at proffessional cyclists-- the epitome of endurance--they take steroids- notably test, in a dog the increased aggression from gear would put it at an advantage in a fight, it would also benefit from a stonger bite.


some steroids inhibit your cardiovascular indurance, i know endurance atheletes are big fans of EPO...


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## 6083

itraininthedark said:


> some steroids inhibit your cardiovascular indurance, i know endurance atheletes are big fans of EPO...


Yep but test use in cycling is pretty widespread along with EPO, epo isnt a steroid though just increases red blood cell count and has a yummy yummy habit of causing a stroke if you take too much as it turns your blood to treacle.

every major dog fighting ring ive read about being exposed has netted steroids.


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## ricklee82

i think staffies are loving dogs i had them in past .i got a rott now there just the same but ppl on the parks will cross the road pick up there kids all down to dik heads treatin them like fightin machines .


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## Nemises

Yes i agree, bad owners give dogs bad names!

I have a presa canrio. He gets some funny looks and people would cross the road to avoid him. But he would only lick you to death


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## itraininthedark

nemises_gendo said:


> Yes i agree, bad owners give dogs bad names!
> 
> I have a presa canrio. He gets some funny looks and people would cross the road to avoid him. But he would only lick you to death


yeh i think some dogs are given a bad image by a few irresponsible individuals. is that your dog in your picture?? if so, where did you get the ears docked?


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## Nemises

Nope its not my dog! i just couldnt be bothered to resize mine for an avatar.

my dog still has ears. used to want them cropped! but i got used to them.

my dogs got plenty of ear lol :lol:


























http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u293/nemises_gendo/DSC00100.jpg]


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## chrismac

Here is your avatar sir.


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## Nemises

Much appreciated, thanx for takeing the time


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## chrismac

No worries - your dogs are beautiful.[however I just spotted the lipstick on the last pic! lol]

I am getting an English Bulldog in a few month or so.


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## diaita

chrismac said:


> No worries - your dogs are beautiful.[however I just spotted the lipstick on the last pic! lol]
> 
> :lol:i was'nt goin to mention that
> 
> I am getting an English Bulldog in a few month or so.


Nice dogs, go a dog show look for utility class you'll get some good info from the breeders:thumbup1:


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## laceymay

alrite mate lovely dogs you got any more pics and wat training do you do ive got an irish and its time to start him training now he's 18months you can send them to my emails at [email protected]

regards

tom


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## xpower

Old thread revival...however

I must agree with those who know the Staffie breed.

One of the few breeds that are good with children,not a naturally aggressive dog towards people

One of the most misunderstood breeds

I've had my rescued Staff for many years (from 2 too the remarkable age of 18 at present)

You couldn't wish to meet a nicer dog.

Sadly he had a stroke a few months ago (but is OK now, once he has woken up properly)& has also got an inoperable tumour in his nether regions.

My vet. is still amazed at how gorgeous & well he looks for his age.

Blame the owner not the dog in most cases IMO.

Xpower


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## gooner fc

Agree with alot of the comments its the owners and not the breed.

Just sick and tired of people walking around with big powerful breeds and have not got the strength to do anything if the dog losses it.

I own a powerful dog myself and will not let my girlfriend walk him incase of anything was to go wrong, not that theirs anything wrong with my dog, his very obedient, incase another dog came up to him and started fighting.


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