# 3 or 4 day split



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi all

Like the title of the thread says, wondering whether to go with a 3 or 4 day split.

Been going to the gym on and off for years but never hit it consistently. You can probably tell from looking at me that I train a.bit but haven't had much success with gains at all.

Like who would go for three rather than four and vice Versa?

I'm ready (after so bloody long) to commit to this fully so would a.four day split ideally be better to go for? If so, any recommendations? For three day, read through some of the stickies so would crack on with those. Just know I'd feel idle only hitting the gym three days a week, like I'm not doing enough. I dunno, maybe I underestimate the value of the rests in between sessions.

Also want to add in a bit of cardio to stay fit. Maybe a couple of sessions a week. Probs alongside a sports drink to help performance and not hit cals much.

In terms if diet, will probs go for 500 or so over maintenance. Probs around 18% body fat currently.

Thanks guys


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Me personally would do 4 day and cut a bit of fat before bulking


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Yeah was thinking that mate but already dropped a bit of fat and already starting to look a bit weedy!

Was kinda hoping for some noob(as a noob to PROPER consistent training) muscle gain and fat loss at the same time by keeping my diet pretty tight.

My problem is I'm always changing my mindbabout the direction I should head in and end up nowhere!


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> My problem is I'm always changing my mindbabout the direction I should head in and end up nowhere!


ffs man up make a decision and stick with it for a while !!!

i think we need a kindergarten section


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

What sort of gains have you made so far? Are you natural (no steroids)?


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> ffs man up make a decisions and stick with it for a while !!!
> 
> i think we need a kindergarten section


Haha fair enough romper stomper. No defense on my part.

Are there any four day splits you'd recommend?

Saw this one from Tom Venuto:

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/new-bodybuilding-workout

Like the look of it but quite like the idea of doing the big compund lifts and this doesnt include deadlift (only RDL) and does include lunges which am not a fan of.

Also saw this one

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/how_to_build_size_and_strength_simultaneously

This includes dead lifts which is great but also things like buffalo squats which wouldnt be possible due to not having the equipment in my gym.

What i like about both routines is that theres a combo of strength and hypertrophy there.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> What sort of gains have you made so far? Are you natural (no steroids)?


Mate probably shouldn't have mentioned about gains as, to be honest, they're nearly non-existent. Ive consistently played sports over the years and done a bit of lifting but in terms of mass put on it really is minimal. Quite pathetic when i think about it as been a member of a gym for years. Problem is there have been massive periods where im not lifting but drinking/eating rubbish instead. Identified alcohol as the main problem. When i get drunk don't train for the best part of a week. Lose motivation, feel terrible, eat greasy food etc. Its taken me years but finally decided to more or less knock it on the head. Very occasionally go out and drink but really make it the exception to the rule.

Any thoughts on those work outs mentioned above?


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Yeah mate i agree. Quite pathetic how little progress ive made really.

Replied with links to a couple of work outs i came across but not sure if allowed.

Was basically two four day splits both focussed on strength on two days, hypertrophy the other two days.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Main issue with beginners is diet. Get to diet section and sort out a good diet.

As long as you are training hard and intense with compounds in there, just find the split that works for you. Also you could try 5*5, 5/3/1, Wendlers, Starting Strength etc etc if you wanted too.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> Main issue with beginners is diet. Get to diet section and sort out a good diet.
> 
> As long as you are training hard and intense with compounds in there, just find the split that works for you. Also you could try 5*5, 5/3/1, Wendlers, Starting Strength etc etc if you wanted too.


Thanks mate, will do. Think Wendlers is a four day split if i remember right.... if so, that could be the way to go then.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

fortress said:


> Mate probably shouldn't have mentioned about gains as, to be honest, they're nearly non-existent.


I didn't ask to be critical BTW, but because this affects what the best sort of training programme is for you right now. You'll be able to make the best gains on a beginner style programme, whereas if you'd already done this sort of thing effectively for a year or so then you would need something else.

So, in your position I'd go for something like Stronglifts for a couple of months, before moving onto a more varied whole body routine three times per week, including higher rep work than the initial 5x5. I would strongly suggest that you avoid any form of body part split routine to begin with. Simply put, training each muscle two to three times per week will give them a greater stimulus to grow. More advanced trainers need higher volume per session which necessitates longer gaps before training that muscle again to allow for recovery, which is where split training comes in.

Good luck  .


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

As a quick way to get a range of opinions rather than just mine, have a read of this thread from the natural bodybuilding section:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/natural-bodybuilding/222427-upper-lower-body-split-vs-full-body-workout-vs-training-split.html


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> I didn't ask to be critical BTW, but because this affects what the best sort of training programme is for you right now. You'll be able to make the best gains on a beginner style programme, whereas if you'd already done this sort of thing effectively for a year or so then you would need something else.
> 
> So, in your position I'd go for something like Stronglifts for a couple of months, before moving onto a more varied whole body routine three times per week, including higher rep work than the initial 5x5. I would strongly suggest that you avoid any form of body part split routine to begin with. Simply put, training each muscle two to three times per week will give them a greater stimulus to grow. More advanced trainers need higher volume per session which necessitates longer gaps before training that muscle again to allow for recovery, which is where split training comes in.
> 
> Good luck  .


Hey mate, that's a really helpful post. Thank you.

My one concern is only lifting three times a week. Want to get rid of this belly asap. Though maybe that's an opportunity to do some cardio one or two other days without worrying about overtraining.

Would something like starting strength also be an appropriate option? Can do all the research this weekend and start on Monday.

On a side note (should have mentioned this in my reply on the diet thread) was looking into nutrient partitioning to help the beginners gains of burning some fat and increasing muscle. So essentially partitioning carbs to around work out time and eating higher fat/protein the rest of the time. Again at around maintenance. What ya think?


----------



## Mr Beefy (Jul 6, 2014)

What do you want to achieve? are you natty?


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Mr Beefy said:


> What do you want to achieve? are you natty?


I've got very little muscle currently despite going to the gym every so often for years. Around 18% body fat currently. I'd like to get the physique(or near to it) of a fitness model and the take it from there. Never used steroids, really don't have much muscle at all.

You think the above sounds OK?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

First up, I'm not some great expert BTW, which is why I also directed you to that other thread. The likes of SimonThePieman and DTLV are much more experienced than I am.



fortress said:


> My one concern is only lifting three times a week. Want to get rid of this belly asap. Though maybe that's an opportunity to do some cardio one or two other days without worrying about overtraining.


Weight train three times per week, but if you want to drop fat then use primarily a calorie deficit, plus some cardio if you like. There is evidence to suggest that HIIT cardio is best for someone who is also weight training. Weight training isn't like jogging where you just do more to get greater results. You need to train in a way that allows you to continue to progress workout to workout, which requires time to recover and grow in between. Weight training too often is less effective.



> Would something like starting strength also be an appropriate option?


Sure. The most obvious difference is that SS is 3x5 and SL is 5x5, but if you read the SL programme properly you'll see it is suggested you drop to 3x5 if the weight progression becomes tough. To begin with you should be able to handle 5x5 which is why I suggest SL. Where I would become less sure of SS in your position is when it moves on to include the likes of power cleans and back extensions, which aren't common in bodybuilding routines. I'll be completely honest, I've never done either, they might be awesome, but I don't believe they are essential. SS also now adds in chin-ups, which are a good addition, as it gives some more direct bicep work.



> On a side note (should have mentioned this in my reply on the diet thread) was looking into nutrient partitioning to help the beginners gains of burning some fat and increasing muscle. So essentially partitioning carbs to around work out time and eating higher fat/protein the rest of the time. Again at around maintenance. What ya think?


Yes, that sort of approach works. If you can do it and stick with it easily, great. But don't feel it is essential. To begin with I'd primarily focus on getting a consistant number of calories per day, so that you can actually find out what your maintenance calories are, and eating about 1g / lb per day of protein.


----------



## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

i go 3 with the odd 4 thrown in


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

If diet is only good enough to fuel 3 day splits then you need to change diet to fuel the 4 day splits .


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ewen said:


> If diet is only good enough to fuel 3 day splits then you need to change diet to fuel the 4 day splits .


It depends what the 'split' is. Training whole body 4 times per week would mean training the same muscle on two consecutive days, which would not be ideal.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Ultrasonic said:


> It depends what the 'split' is. Training whole body 4 times per week would mean training the same muscle on two consecutive days, which would not be ideal.


I disagree , good examples are olympic lifters also swimmers .


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The OP is however neither an olympic lifter or a swimmer though. He is (presumably) somebody with a more normal life, including a job. That doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong, but they are different situations.

What would you recommend that the OP do?


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> First up, I'm not some great expert BTW, which is why I also directed you to that other thread. The likes of SimonThePieman and DTLV are much more experienced than I am.
> 
> Weight train three times per week, but if you want to drop fat then use primarily a calorie deficit, plus some cardio if you like. There is evidence to suggest that HIIT cardio is best for someone who is also weight training. Weight training isn't like jogging where you just do more to get greater results. You need to train in a way that allows you to continue to progress workout to workout, which requires time to recover and grow in between. Weight training too often is less effective.
> 
> ...


That's really helpful mate, thanks. Cool so will go for SL then - have downloaded the app. Will have a good read about it now.

Can imagine coming into these workouts on little carbs might be difficult so was thinking maybe low carbs on the off days then them a decent amount on work out days.

So if I go for around maintenance and chart how that goes. Can always adjust as things continue I suppose.

Main thing is to be consistent I suppose. That's been my main issue over the years.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

ewen said:


> I disagree , good examples are olympic lifters also swimmers .


Yeah would be interested in what you'd recommend too mate.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Ultrasonic said:


> The OP is however neither an olympic lifter or a swimmer though. He is (presumably) somebody with a more normal life, including a job. That doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong, but they are different situations.
> 
> What would you recommend that the OP do?





fortress said:


> Yeah would be interested in what you'd recommend too mate.


set a goal then work towards it hitting mini goals along the way .


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

ewen said:


> set a goal then work towards it hitting mini goals along the way .


Yeah suppose that's what it all boils down to 'ay.

Cool will crack on with the SL three times a week with a bit of cardio and eat around maintenance and take it from there.

Aim to get down to around 10% and then build up from there.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

fortress said:


> Yeah suppose that's what it all boils down to 'ay.
> 
> Cool will crack on with the SL three times a week with a bit of cardio and eat around maintenance and take it from there.
> 
> Aim to get down to around 10% and then build up from there.


my advice is to train on a 3 day split learning and mastering techniques also learning diet , this will give you a base to build from , you can then work towards the goal that I assume you have of being more muscular and having abs on show year round .

don't doubt yourself and change things up just follow a program and if after 6 months littke has changed then address the issue but until then just follow a method and learn nutrition .


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

ewen said:


> my advice is to train on a 3 day split learning and mastering techniques also learning diet , this will give you a base to build from , you can then work towards the goal that I assume you have of being more muscular and having abs on show year round .
> 
> don't doubt yourself and change things up just follow a program and if after 6 months littke has changed then address the issue but until then just follow a method and learn nutrition .


Thanks mate, appreciated. Cool will stick to the SL then and see how it goes.

As far as diet will start with maintenance, see how that goes and in the mean time learn more about it all. Hopefully fat loss and a bit of muscle gain. We'll see!


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Hey guys,

With Strong Lifts (starting tomorrow) is it OK for me to start the 5x5 with say a weight i can get 12 reps out with currently and move up from there?

Know those lifts already and pretty confident on at least decent form so seems a waste to just start with the bar.

Cheers


----------



## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

Do both!

Train every other day so you do 3 one week and 4 the next. You'll be able to make progress for months on this.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

fortress said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> With Strong Lifts (starting tomorrow) is it OK for me to start the 5x5 with say a weight i can get 12 reps out with currently and move up from there?
> 
> ...


If you definitely are confident re. form I'd probably start heavier.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Kazza61 said:


> Do both!
> 
> Train every other day so you do 3 one week and 4 the next. You'll be able to make progress for months on this.


That's a good shout mate, cheers. Will see how I get on this week and take it from there.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you definitely are confident re. form I'd probably start heavier.


Thanks mate. Only a small point I know but means I can start tomorrow more confident in what I'm doing.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

First 5 x 5 today. Was really excited to get started. Had rested all weekend so was really up for getting to the gym.

These are what I lifted.

Squat: 60kg x 5 sets of 5

Bench: 60kg x 5 sets of 5 (tried to start on 70kg but was too much for me. Was a bit surprised as can generally knock out 5 reps of 32.5kg dumbbells but maybe was because I went a bit wider than I naturally would with the dumbbells)

Barbell row: 45kg x 5 sets of 5

Row was probably the easiest of the 3. Had a bit more in the tank for squats and bench. More left in the tank for squats I'd say even though they were hard.

Need to tighten up my diet. Want to have a better look through the site for meal ideas. Had chicken breast, broccoli and some cashew nuts for three meals at work today. Would find that hard to do day after day.

Like how this work out gives me focus and a clear direction. For months I'd go to the gym not remembering exactly what I did last time and not sure on the exact exercises I'd do.

Checked weight this morning and am 160.8 lbs (am 5' 9'') and 17.7% body fat (dodgy to rely on this I know but just thought I'd mention).


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sounds like your grip was too wide on the bench press, which is more likely to get you injured. You should definitely be able to barbell press more than you can with dumbells.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sounds like your grip was too wide on the bench press, which is more likely to get you injured. You should definitely be able to barbell press more than you can with dumbells.


Yeah exactly mate. Was quite confident when i started the 70kg, but after two reps not so much! The chap spotting me helped with the next three but thought id re-set to 60kg and do 5x5 from there.

Will have a look at proper form for bench before friday.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Most people can get the same results from a 3 day, 4 day and 5 days split unless they are pretty advanced.

It's more about what you can do and give 100% too and get the most satisfaction from. If you live and breathe the gym 5 days is most emotionally rewarding. Whereas if you life is busy 3 days will deliver plenty of results if you smash it each and every time.

If you are cutting and natty and fairly inexperienced I would look at doing a 3 day routine like IAs SPBR and a PPL and just do cardio when you get spare time. Both are time proven routines that deliver result to 90%+ of people that do them. You can run them indefinitely with little tweaks and the cardio will speed up the fat loss


----------



## Guest (Jul 29, 2014)

Train heavy three times a week every week and up your food intake. 18% fat isnt to high so concentrate on gaining some muscle and dont worry about fat yet.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Most people can get the same results from a 3 day, 4 day and 5 days split unless they are pretty advanced.
> 
> It's more about what you can do and give 100% too and get the most satisfaction from. If you live and breathe the gym 5 days is most emotionally rewarding. Whereas if you life is busy 3 days will deliver plenty of results if you smash it each and every time.
> 
> If you are cutting and natty and fairly inexperienced I would look at doing a 3 day routine like IAs SPBR and a PPL and just do cardio when you get spare time. Both are time proven routines that deliver result to 90%+ of people that do them. You can run them indefinitely with little tweaks and the cardio will speed up the fat loss


Thanks for that. Not sure what the first two of those routines are but will have a google out of interest. Have gone with strong lifts so three days a week and really happy with the start. When im going to the gym i always end up going 4/5 times a week but perhaps am a bit flat at times. Was really up for going last night and would normally go again tonight but with this one i'll rest and hopefully go at it again 100% tomorrow. Gave it all when i was there and was focussed on doing the lifts as well as i can currently. One chap earlier in the thread mentioned always taking just one day off in between so would mean 4 one week/3 the next. That could be worth looking at i suppose if i feel ive extra capacity and not too busy.

I've usually fallen down more so on the diet side. Got to be honest. Havent tracked calories 100% but have an idea of what im eating and eating good quality stuff. Think this will make all the difference so will look to smarten this up a bit.

Yep gonna try to fit in cardio when possible. Might start playing football again on saturday afternoons.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

fortress said:


> Thanks for that. Not sure what the first two of those routines are but will have a google out of interest. Have gone with strong lifts so three days a week and really happy with the start. When im going to the gym i always end up going 4/5 times a week but perhaps am a bit flat at times. Was really up for going last night and would normally go again tonight but with this one i'll rest and hopefully go at it again 100% tomorrow. Gave it all when i was there and was focussed on doing the lifts as well as i can currently. One chap earlier in the thread mentioned always taking just one day off in between so would mean 4 one week/3 the next. That could be worth looking at i suppose if i feel ive extra capacity and not too busy.
> 
> I've usually fallen down more so on the diet side. Got to be honest. Havent tracked calories 100% but have an idea of what im eating and eating good quality stuff. Think this will make all the difference so will look to smarten this up a bit.
> 
> Yep gonna try to fit in cardio when possible. Might start playing football again on saturday afternoons.


strong lifts is an excellent choice for getting up and running quickly. You can progress on the others when you max out on strong lifts


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

dallas said:


> Train heavy three times a week every week and up your food intake. 18% fat isnt to high so concentrate on gaining some muscle and dont worry about fat yet.


Thanks mate. Eating good quality stuff. Trying to stay lower carbs and just hit them quite hard after the gym - so last night roughly 500ml lucozade then some oat cakes an hour later. Apart from that last few days just got them from veg.

Feeling good starting to get rid of the belly so think will stick to that but be are of keeping protein/fats high enough that im not sparing muscle.


----------



## Guest (Jul 29, 2014)

fortress said:


> Thanks mate. Eating good quality stuff. Trying to stay lower carbs and just hit them quite hard after the gym - so last night roughly 500ml lucozade then some oat cakes an hour later. Apart from that last few days just got them from veg.
> 
> Feeling good starting to get rid of the belly so think will stick to that but be are of keeping protein/fats high enough that im not sparing muscle.


Remember the guide . . . 50% food. 40% sleep.10% gym.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

dallas said:


> Remember the guide . . . 50% food. *40% sleep*.10% gym.


Thats something i need to look at actually.

Didnt start training til 930pm so was still wide awake when i went to bed at 1215 (find it difficult to sleep soon after training). Didnt sleep til at least 1 id say then up for work shortly after 7.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I've obviously no idea what your other commitments are, but training before rather than after your evening meal would be best if you can manage it. Both in terms of sleep and better post workout nutrition.

Oh, and training it worth WAY more than 10 % in my book, just as above nutrition and rest/sleep are important factors too.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> I've obviously no idea what your other commitments are, but training before rather than after your evening meal would be best if you can manage it. Both in terms of sleep and better post workout nutrition.
> 
> Oh, and training it worth WAY more than 10 % in my book, just as above nutrition and rest/sleep are important factors too.


Thanks mate, will try to do that. That late meal was actually the first whole food one i had since around 530 pm. Got to the gym around 9 so by the time i had finished, had the post workout drink and cooked it was after 11.

Theres a nutrient timing article on here which talks about staying low carb until after the workout then hitting your body with an immediate relatively large amount of carbs. If im not getting to the gym for a few hours after the previous meal would you say just some whey protein mixed with water straight before the workout would be ok?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

There are lots of different diets views, personally I would never workout in a low carb state.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> There are lots of different diets views, personally I would never workout in a low carb state.


Right, fair enough. Seemed fine yesterday but will see how it goes after a few consecutive sessions. Main thing is ive improved what im eating and training consistently. Suppose i can adjust smaller things like this as i go along


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

fortress said:


> Right, fair enough. Seemed fine yesterday but will see how it goes after a few consecutive sessions. Main thing is ive improved what im eating and training consistently. Suppose i can adjust smaller things like this as i go along


You need to find what works for you  . Was the article you read Pscarb's Timed carbs article? You should know that he really knows his stuff, and is WAY more knowledgeable and experienced than me! Loads of people do train when low on carbs. The little I've read makes feel this may be detrimental, and I personally see no need to ever train when low on carbs, so currently, I don't. Can I make a case for the difinintely being the optimal approach and that everyone should do this? Hell no! This stuff is seriously complicated if you start looking into it...

If you are looking to drop body fat, this is an article you may find interesting, offering one well respected person's point of view (or at least his view when he wrote the article, it may have changed!):

http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html

I am conscious that I often seem to overcomplicate things on this forum, but don't get bogged down in the diet details. Make progress in the gym and eat a decent diet and you will get in better shape. Everything doesn't have to be perfect!


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> You need to find what works for you  . Was the article you read Pscarb's Timed carbs article? You should know that he really knows his stuff, and is WAY more knowledgeable and experienced than me! Loads of people do train when low on carbs. The little I've read makes feel this may be detrimental, and I personally see no need to ever train when low on carbs, so currently, I don't. Can I make a case for the difinintely being the optimal approach and that everyone should do this? Hell no! This stuff is seriously complicated if you start looking into it...
> 
> If you are looking to drop body fat, this is an article you may find interesting, offering one well respected person's point of view (or at least his view when he wrote the article, it may have changed!):
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to reply mate.

Yep, was the article from pscarb that i was taking the low carbs before the workout from. I havent been doing it to the letter but been trying to keep fats at a good level and only obtaining carbs from veg etc.

To be honest, struggle with the diet massively. In the past ive thrown the baby out with the bath water and ended up eating complete sh1t so this time trying to be more moderate. So for example yesterday, was getting sick of the chicken and green beans so went to marks and bought a bit of salami and some cashew nuts and added them in. Not ideal i wouldnt have thought (particularly the salami) but better than what i used to do which was end up in McDonalds and eating half my body weight in chocolate! So yeah, if im feeling like im gonna eat garbage just trying to eat something helthy and nutritious. Will see where it takes me.

Had a read of most of the article. Will read the rest later. Looks like i need to up the protein further.

On a side note, how do you go about preparing meals? What i thought i could do during the next week or so is have a go at making a few different things and making a note of the macro splits on them.

Then when i need something can prepare them knowing what im consuming rather than it being guess work. So for example, scoop of protein, table spoon of almond butter, helf pint milk equals... Also for more substantial meals involving meat etc.

Obviously will need to cut in bulk for a few meals at work, but again if i work out the overall macors of the, say, three meals, then districbute the food as equally as possible.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, forgot to reply to this!



fortress said:


> To be honest, struggle with the diet massively. In the past ive thrown the baby out with the bath water and ended up eating complete sh1t so this time trying to be more moderate. So for example yesterday, was getting sick of the chicken and green beans so went to marks and bought a bit of salami and some cashew nuts and added them in. Not ideal i wouldnt have thought (particularly the salami) but better than what i used to do which was end up in McDonalds and eating half my body weight in chocolate! So yeah, if im feeling like im gonna eat garbage just trying to eat something helthy and nutritious. Will see where it takes me.


I think you're on the right track there. It is important that whatever diet you go for is sustainable in the long term. Obsessing about every minor detail has lead many people to 'crack' and eat a load of rubbish. Controlled 'cheats' are a much better approach. Having variety in your diet is good both from a sanity point of view, and actually also a general health point of view. Different foods have different micronutrient content, and having a very restricted diet has the potential to cause deficiencies as a result.



> What i thought i could do during the next week or so is have a go at making a few different things and making a note of the macro splits on them.


Sensible plan. Although if it all ends up seeming like too much work bear in mind that many, many people have sucessfully lost body fat without going to this level of detail.



> Obviously will need to cut in bulk for a few meals at work, but again if i work out the overall macors of the, say, three meals, then districbute the food as equally as possible.


Do what you prefer, but you don't have to spread the food evenly. A bigger breakfast, lunch and dinner with smaller meals in between is good too.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sorry, forgot to reply to this!
> 
> I think you're on the right track there. It is important that whatever diet you go for is sustainable in the long term. Obsessing about every minor detail has lead many people to 'crack' and eat a load of rubbish. Controlled 'cheats' are a much better approach. Having variety in your diet is good both from a sanity point of view, and actually also a general health point of view. Different foods have different micronutrient content, and having a very restricted diet has the potential to cause deficiencies as a result.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply mate - sorry been away on hols for a few days.

Im definitely seeing progress since i started training consistently a while back and really enjoyed last week, but know my diet could be a lot sharper. For now im happy to continue as is like you mentioned. Ive done it before where ive been perfect with all my food for a number of days then just got fed up with it all and gave up!

I've got a question re: the strong lifts if that's ok...

Probably should have mentioned but suffered quite a bad knee injury last year. Busted PCL, lateral/medial ligaments etc. Still haven't gone back to playing football properly and theres noticeable atrophy still.

Squats were certainly recommended to do by the physio i saw some time back and was doing a few sets of 12 twice a week.

But having done heavier ones for 5 reps three times last week seems to have taken its toll and my knee has been aching since the weekend.

Is there another strength starting programme which would go a bit easier on my knee? Perhaps one involving more deadlifts etc rather than squats.

Shame as enjoying this one but worry about the state of my knee!


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

fortress said:


> Thanks for the reply mate - sorry been away on hols for a few days.
> 
> Im definitely seeing progress since i started training consistently a while back and really enjoyed last week, but know my diet could be a lot sharper. For now im happy to continue as is like you mentioned. Ive done it before where ive been perfect with all my food for a number of days then just got fed up with it all and gave up!
> 
> ...


What you guys reckon about this one for my dodgy knee? Was recommended by Mingster in a recommend a PPL routine. Only squats once a week.

Deadlift 5 sets x 10,10,8,6,4 reps. Chins 3x10. Barbell Curls 2/3x12-15.

Bench 5 sets x 10,10,8,6,4. Dips 3x10. Skulls 2/3x12-15.

Squats 5 sets x 10,10,8,6,4. SLDL 3x10. Calf Raises 3x15-20.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I know nothing about knee injury rehab I'm afraid. You really want to be getting advice from people who do, so the best plan would probably be to see a sports physio again.

In the absence of expert advice I would definitely be avoiding low rep (i.e. high load) squats though.

Another related issue you probably have is a strength imbalalnce between your two legs, which again is something you want to get expert advice on how to handle.


----------



## fortress (Feb 5, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> I know nothing about knee injury rehab I'm afraid. You really want to be getting advice from people who do, so the best plan would probably be to see a sports physio again.
> 
> In the absence of expert advice I would definitely be avoiding low rep (i.e. high load) squats though.
> 
> Another related issue you probably have is a strength imbalalnce between your two legs, which again is something you want to get expert advice on how to handle.


Thanks for the reply.

Yeah it's likely that I'll need to see the physio again. They gave me sufficient advice in order to get back up to speed but suppose if i want to build muscle will need to look at the safest way to do that.

No pains in my knee today but its obviously a warning sign that i shouldn't go too heavy currently.

Might be a bit of a random version but perhaps for now will go with this new routine and when it comes to squats go heavy enough for three sets of 12 - unless somebody suggests a better idea.


----------

