# HGH - Truth or Myth



## larus (Sep 23, 2015)

I'm now in my fourth months of HGH, started 1st of January along with PCT after a 16 weeks Test Cyp cycle at 400/500 week (well..did 6 weeks of 200/week NPP in the middle). I thought it'd help me going through PCT in terms of both mood and muscle gains. And yes, I just turned 40 so also for its presumed anti aging benefits which I will address in a bit. Must mention my HGH is all pharma grade, Lilly or Nordilet, the latter for when I travel. I started at 2iu and gradually raised every couple of weeks or so to 5iu now. I have been at 5iu over the last two weeks. My plan is, well , was to keep it at 5iu but I will have to decrease back to 4iu or even 3iu because the joint pain is awful. Also in May I will start a new cycle so wont need HGH as much I guess.

Results week 13:

Sides: 1) Felt very sleepy, mostly after the first month when I raised it to 3iu. I got past that Iand I feel fine now even though I take naps when i can mid afternoon (mostluy week-ends or when I travel and have some spare time); 2) Joints. As far as joints the pain is AWFUL. Progressively I got a awful lot of joint pain. This is so bad now that is really keeping me from training as I used to.

Benefits: mmm not much that i can see so far....perhaps helped a bit in terms of body comp, but cant really say that for sure. I was 5% BF before cycle, I was 5% on cycle and I'm still 5% body fat now. In terms of gains, I gained more or less 7Kg on cycle all muscles (I was 76kg and I got to 82.5kg) and I lost about 2.5kg or so since December. I do a lot of Crossfit, so it's unlikely I gain massively in terms of weight. In terms of strength, I obviously lost some but actually not as much as I thought. Talking a couple fewer reps perhaps, but all plates on the bar have stayed pretty much the same for the key lifts (deadlift, squat, bench). If i really had to go for one rep, which I havent in a while, I'd guess I probably I lost 5% maybe?. Well..this at least up to last week, now I have really bad shoulders joint pain (and hips too, which I never never had! it took me a while to figure out it was a hip!) and cant bench and do any strict press or even less Olympic lifts like snatch and C&J). Ah yes, one benefit is that I sleep like a rock at night. 10.30pm to 5.30am straight

Questions:

1) Does anybody actually know why HGH cause joint pain? there are 1.000.000.000.000.000 posts and threads on this, I've probably read a good chunk yet no one single clear answer. Some point to growth in ligaments/tendons, others to fluid retantion in the joint oh well..Any strong thesis? Does it go away or should I just lower the dose, as I'm planning to do?

2) As far as anti-aging, I have been reading a bit on this. Most academic studies (one of the last I've read is this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682398/ ) seems to suggest that there are no benefits in terms of halting and even less reversing aging for people that have a normal function of their pituitary gland, independently from the amount of gh that the latter produces based on age, which of course is a lot less for a 60yo than for a 20yo. Nonetheless, not really many benefits, most group studies seem to point to sides rather than benefits, which include rthralgias, edema, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance and possibly also diabetes.

Hope these studies are wrong i still have a decent inventory of Lilly cartridges.... Thoughts?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

larus said:


> Questions:
> 
> 1) Does anybody actually know why HGH cause joint pain? there are 1.000.000.000.000.000 posts and threads on this, I've probably read a good chunk yet no one single clear answer. Some point to growth in ligaments/tendons, others to fluid retantion in the joint oh well..Any strong thesis? Does it go away or should I just lower the dose, as I'm planning to do?


 this on the main is caused by fluid retention simply lowering the dose will relieve it and then increase it slowly to a point your body can handle the increase in retention, ligaments and tendons will not grow by using GH especially in the short time it takes to see this side effect.



larus said:


> 2) As far as anti-aging, I have been reading a bit on this. Most academic studies (one of the last I've read is this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682398/ ) seems to suggest that there are no benefits in terms of halting and even less reversing aging for people that have a normal function of their pituitary gland, independently from the amount of gh that the latter produces based on age, which of course is a lot less for a 60yo than for a 20yo. Nonetheless, not really many benefits, most group studies seem to point to sides rather than benefits, which include rthralgias, edema, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance and possibly also diabetes.


 the studies are not wrong i am afraid when it comes to long term daily use of synthetic GH there are as many of not more sides than benefits, although the diabetes reference is a push, i assume it has been mentioned as a "Next phase" type thing if you push the insulin resistance point but i cannot see this happening myself. synthetic GH over time will negatively impact on the PG plus it suppresses natural release.

as we age essentially we don't produce less GH we release less GH, this is where GHRP/GHRH peptides in my opinion are a better option for someone looking for the results you are looking for, these peptides assist the body to release more natural GH in pulses....if you want the effects you are after then i would say to look at GHRP/GHRH peptides

read this article which will give you a basic understanding of what they are and what they do....

http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> this on the main is caused by fluid retention simply lowering the dose will relieve it and then increase it slowly to a point your body can handle the increase in retention, ligaments and tendons will not grow by using GH especially in the short time it takes to see this side effect.
> 
> the studies are not wrong i am afraid when it comes to long term daily use of synthetic GH there are as many of not more sides than benefits, although the diabetes reference is a push, i assume it has been mentioned as a "Next phase" type thing if you push the insulin resistance point but i cannot see this happening myself. synthetic GH over time will negatively impact on the PG plus it suppresses natural release.
> 
> ...


 Pscarb what is a common dose for tendon related problems? I mean what are effective doses without causing too much side effects.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

there isn't one as we all react differently, you have to start low and increase slowly


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> there isn't one as we all react differently, you have to start low and increase slowly


 so what you think about 2 IUs pharm grade GH with test e 200mg-w along with 250mg deca? BPC 157 from peptidesuk was bunk, have to find another solution for my problems


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

what do i think of it? for what purpose?


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> what do i think of it? for what purpose?


 I have tendonitis in my shoulder and also in my left bicep


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

I'd try a bit higher dose test than deca, 300-400 with 200 deca, I ran this and it helped no end, to the point where my shoulders feel vaguely normal and I'm now gonna start a fresh cycle with 600 test and 400 deca plus 50mg anadrol for 50 days and properly push for some size 

cant comment on the peps though sorry!


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

superdrol said:


> I'd try a bit higher dose test than deca, 300-400 with 200 deca, I ran this and it helped no end, to the point where my shoulders feel vaguely normal and I'm now gonna start a fresh cycle with 600 test and 400 deca plus 50mg anadrol for 50 days and properly push for some size
> 
> cant comment on the peps though sorry!


 how long you were on a cycle?


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

CROcyclist said:


> so what you think about 2 IUs pharm grade GH with test e 200mg-w along with 250mg deca? BPC 157 from peptidesuk was bunk, have to find another solution for my problems


 add some insulin to it, GH is a waste of time without Insulin! 2iu pharma with the insulin of your choice.. sit down, relax, and watch the magic happen...


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

BetterThanYou said:


> add some insulin to it, GH is a waste of time without Insulin! 2iu pharma with the insulin of your choice.. sit down, relax, and watch the magic happen...


 why insulin?I'm not gong on a bulk I want to run a cycle for my tendon repair.I'm planning to train light just to maintain mass.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

CROcyclist said:


> how long you were on a cycle?


 I ran it short at 7 weeks, and I've gone cold turkey for 7 weeks after I did my back and had a month off work pretty much, shortly to jump back on, I normally drop to cruise dose, but have literally done nowt for the seven weeks! (I'm 37 and had the snip so balls can shrivel a bit for me, it doesn't make any odds, have had no bad feelings from the lack of test at all, but it was low pre cycle at 10.summat)


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BetterThanYou said:


> add some insulin to it, GH is a waste of time without Insulin! 2iu pharma with the insulin of your choice.. sit down, relax, and watch the magic happen...


 no its not needed, the action of GH does not rely on insulin to work plus he is using it for tendonitis can you link to the reference where insulin makes GH work better for any purpose but mainly tendonitis please?

tendonitis is a specific issue that involves inflammation of the tendon, a stack with TB500 and BPC157 would be a better option than deca and GH to be fair, i understand why you are using what you are but i think your using to many things to be able to resolve the issue.

you can use the Gh and AAS but i would clear the injury up first with the peptides i mentioned above, but you must rest the bicep and shoulder plus add physio for it to properly heal just using PEDs will not resolve the issue......take the hit stop training the upper body and seek the help of a physio plus use the two peptides above and you will get it sorted......


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> no its not needed, the action of GH does not rely on insulin to work plus he is using it for tendonitis can you link to the reference where insulin makes GH work better for any purpose but mainly tendonitis please?
> 
> tendonitis is a specific issue that involves inflammation of the tendon, a stack with TB500 and BPC157 would be a better option than deca and GH to be fair, i understand why you are using what you are but i think your using to many things to be able to resolve the issue.
> 
> you can use the Gh and AAS but i would clear the injury up first with the peptides i mentioned above, but you must rest the bicep and shoulder plus add physio for it to properly heal just using PEDs will not resolve the issue......take the hit stop training the upper body and seek the help of a physio plus use the two peptides above and you will get it sorted......


 I have mentioned before I have used BPC 157 and it was bunk, spent 220 pounds and it did nothing for my tendons.I can't source AV peptides because they don't ship to Croatia and I highly doubt any of european peptide sellers make BPC 157 worth trying.

I'm not training at all, and I'm very depressed.I'm in the state of mind where I would eat dogs s**t if I know it would help.just don't know what to do anymore


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

where did you get the BPC from? what dosing protocol did you use


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> where did you get the BPC from? what dosing protocol did you use


 peptidesuk.250 mcg x2 a day...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i use BPC from Pure peptides and found it to be very good at a dose of 350mcg twice a day micro dosed around the area of the injury not one bolus shot


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> i use BPC from Pure peptides and found it to be very good at a dose of 350mcg twice a day micro dosed around the area of the injury not one bolus shot


 maybe I should try with purepeptides.hope this time would work...

fcking lab pushers I regret the day when I read about peptidesuk.


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## AngryBuddha (Nov 25, 2015)

Been on 5iu 2 days on 1 day off for 3-4months now and noticed nothing, no fat loss, anti aging, fk all


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

AngryBuddha said:


> Been on 5iu 2 days on 1 day off for 3-4months now and noticed nothing, no fat loss, anti aging, fk all


 probably fake GH


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## AngryBuddha (Nov 25, 2015)

CROcyclist said:


> probably fake GH


 Ankebio ansonome, hyge blacktops with code


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## CROcyclist (Jun 1, 2015)

AngryBuddha said:


> Ankebio ansonome, hyge blacktops with code


 as far as I heard blacktops are not good...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

AngryBuddha said:


> Been on 5iu 2 days on 1 day off for 3-4months now and noticed nothing, no fat loss, anti aging, fk all





AngryBuddha said:


> Ankebio ansonome, hyge blacktops with code


 is it the 100iu or 40iu ansomone as i have been using the 40iu ones at 4iu M/W/F for 2 weeks and are fuller all ready a bit early to tell for body composition but i am holding condition nicely


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## stevebills (Oct 9, 2007)

AngryBuddha said:


> Been on 5iu 2 days on 1 day off for 3-4months now and noticed nothing, no fat loss, anti aging, fk all


 I think hgh is very over rated and is not the miracle drug peeps say it is

Pros use 20 ius a day but they prefer to die young with shreeded body's lol


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## AngryBuddha (Nov 25, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> is it the 100iu or 40iu ansomone as i have been using the 40iu ones at 4iu M/W/F for 2 weeks and are fuller all ready a bit early to tell for body composition but i am holding condition nicely


 100iu ones mate, going to switch to peptides which i found better in past


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i do not believe the 100iu packs are of the same quality as the 40iu packs (these are what is used in Chinese hospitals) comparing our results makes me believe this even more


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## meekdown (Aug 3, 2009)

I second this, last year the only hgh I used in the later part of the year was the 40iu kits and I have never looked or felt better, from the start of this year I have been running the 100iu ones and I much prefer the 40s, so I have switched back as I gave the 100s a fair enough run and I wasn't impressed by them, the 40iu kits are much better imo


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## larus (Sep 23, 2015)

Update: the combination of a lower dose at 3iu and two days full rest / no training thanks to my toddler son giving me a nasty stomach bug caught at his nursery reduced the joint aches a LOT! Well, i think lowering the doose really helped, perhaps I went up a bit too fast or I simply cant take 5 iu day of pharma grade.

Now Im ready to start my second cycle, was thinking to start 1st of May to make it exactly four months off but will start next weekend . Its gonna be Test E like last time 400 (maybe 500 ...) week and NPP @200 week, only Test E (and perhaps may add Primobolan ... I wanted to try another steroid and i'm investigating it..looks good in terms of my goals ie dont care about becoming huge, definition is more important and little sides. Equipoise seems a cheaper option to Primo but head now got stuck with the former.

Will finish off the last month (August) of the cycle with Test Propionate only. Last time I started like a good boy at 50 daily and ended it at 100 daily, was REALLY fun! I recovered pretty good from the other (and my first cycle) and I did some HCG weekly and (and HMG at the end) so will do this even this time.

For those interested, PCT was almost one month clomid at 100mg (last week at 50mg) and Torem. It started really fine emotionally ie no change or perhaps tbh I almost was enjoying the new "angles" Clomid was bringing to my perspectives...until about mid January (like three weeks in or something like that) when I became really weird, and yes I also cried a couple of times while fighting with my wife (and we almost NEVER fight...not to that point)...oh well nothing is free.


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