# Dieting for a show



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

On request from Dazza, here's my current diet I'm following for the BNBF Scottish Championships in June. The plan is obviously to get in the best shape possible for the show so I've cut my calorie's from around 3000kcal down to 2600kcal to create a deficit to start the fat burning possible. It's worked pretty well so far since I've gone from being 14st to around 13st 4. I'll continue to drop calories out the diet as the weight loss begins to slow. Here's the plan though.

*On waking: *20g of Extreme Whey

*BF:* 100g porridge oats, 3 eggs (only 2 yolks) and 200ml 1% milk.

*Meal 2:* 30g porridge oats and 30g of Extreme Pro-6

*Meal 3:* 75g (dry weight) basmati rice, vegetables and chicken breast..

*Meal 4:* 75g (dry weight) basmati rice, vegetables and chicken breast.

*Meal 5:* 75g (dry weight) basmati rice, vegetables and chicken breast.

*Train*

*Post Workout:* 100g of Build and Recover

*Meal 6:* 75g (dry weight) basmati rice, vegetables and chicken breast.

Red meat, and fish: I eat red meat and fish a couple of times a week instead of chicken for the different amino acid profiles, and for the different minerals, vitamins and fats that come with these sort of foods.

I'll also eat sweet potato and white potato, instead of rice a couple of times for the same reasons, bur I mostly eat rice mainly because of convenience.

Veg: the veg i eat, tends to be what you would regard as fibrous sources or low calorie: mushrooms, leaks, cucumber, broccoli, peppers, lettuce, asparigus, red onion etc.

Totals

*Carbohydrate: 383.5g Protein: 189.9g Fat: 49.9g *

*Calories: 2643.3 Kcal*

Any questions fire away.


----------



## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

How much chicken would you have per meal roughly?

How do you drop calories without becoming more hungry? What calories are you likely to go down to, know this will depend on the fat loss but guesstimate figures.


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

And do you really diet down for a show with zero cardio?


----------



## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

When you say rice, veg and chicken... is that literally all you have on your plate? Any seasoning, sauce etc to give a bit of taste? Or are you super strict with it?


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

SX Dave said:


> How much chicken would you have per meal roughly?
> 
> How do you drop calories without becoming more hungry? What calories are you likely to go down to, know this will depend on the fat loss but guesstimate figures.


It works out at around 100g dry weight with every meal.

Eating veg high in fibre keeps you full and protein is quite satisfying for hunger Dave, as does eating every other hour, it generally keeps you ticking over nicely. When it get's closer to show time though, little things like fat burners that suppress your appetite, and drinking plenty of black coffee help you get through the day. It's only generally the last few 4 weeks that becomes an issue and experience counts for a lot, this is my 13th or so show, you kind of get used to it and sadly it nearly always comes with the territory.

As you get closer to the show your bodyfat and weight drops, as does your body's need for calories, i.e my requirements to maintain weight will be coming down so I don't need 3000kcals anymore, and if you consider I might only have around 75kg of muscle on my frame and that fat isn't metabolicly active (brown fat is a myth btw) then it works out fine.

I only make adjustments based on when the fat loss starts to slow, if I go from losing 2lbs a week to 0lbs then it's time to make an adjustment where I might knock off 100kcals from a non training day and when your on the edge that makes a hell of a difference. The next step is to cycle the calories and then go from there if I had to guesstimate where it might be come a month out from the show then it might look something like this:

Monday Back: 2400kcals

Tuesday Chest: 2300 Kcals

Wednesday off: 2100 kaks

Thursday shoulders: 2300 kcals

Friday Legs: 2400kcals

Weekend: 2100kcals

Now bare in mind I've not included the calories in the veg for that original diet I posted or for those there so it might well be the case that you could add an extra couple of hundred onto each day.

I wouldn't like to go any less than that ever, in which case a few cardio sessions might be thrown in but if your still losing the weight Dorsey then there really is no point. A contest diet is all about making adjustments. If your body is giving up fat then there's no point making changes, cause then what do you do if you stop losing fat, and your already doing a ton of cardio!

Sauce BJ lol you must be kidding, very few sauce's are low in cals, their are low cal options out there I'm sure but I've yet to find them. I add seasoning and spices to my chicken, veg or potato's to add flavour. I might add a touch of lemon , juice, cider vinegar or a touch of Tabasco to the meal, or some soya to flavour the rice. But as extreme pointed out in another post the other day about apple juice, your just adding pointless calories, your body doesn't need and your diet could do wit out if your trying to maintain a deficit. I'm strict with this after all this is a bodybuilding show , I'm not trying to win slimmer of the month at weight watchers


----------



## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Haha fair enough, I was kinda expecting that answer. Im eating 200g turkey mince and 50g basmati rice as a meal but couldnt handle the blandness of it. half a tin of chopped tomatoes and a few chilli's later i actually look forward to eating it.

I know my strictness probably doesnt need to be anywere near yours, but I was just curious as how / if they would effect someone like me?


----------



## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Nice post Andy some good details and a bit more of an insight into prep 

One thing that did stand out was "brown fat is a myth" funny as Doug said about lean-r working in brown fat in another thread? I'd like to hear both your sides on that one as you both know your stuff...


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

if you added in more carbs or fats, it would allow you to do some cardio..

im a big beleiver on being on as much food as poss and burning off excess with abit of low impact low resistance cardio..

thereby getting as much benefit from the chemicals in food and getting greater anabolic effect..

i was chatting with paul george after a show he`d been guest posing at and the other guest poser did zero cardio for the show and his upcoming competitions..

PG`s head was boggled lol..

its just a comment he made that always stuck with me.. 

honest to god i`m not trying to teach you to suck eggs dude..


----------



## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

I see the point Cal, when I spoke with Neale Cranwell he told me more food and more cardio helps bring the cuts in the legs out better etc. Guess as everything,everyone has their opinion or methods. More than one way to skin a cat, and all that...


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Out of interest Andy, do you think dieting down as a natty would be alot different compared to being enhanced

I'm thinking that hormones protect muscle mass and would force the body to use fat rather than muscle for energy a lot easier than when dieting naturally


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm still undecided on the cardio situation

I do plenty cardio myself but alot of that is to keep my cardiovascular system healthier because of the hormones I take rather than to just lose weight

A former pro said no cardio is needed to get down to 8%, it can be done on weight training and diet!


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

I must admit, i've always wondered why more food is eaten only for cardio to burn off the calories - seemed a waste. Starting to understand now...


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

yannyboy said:


> I'm still undecided on the cardio situation
> 
> I do plenty cardio myself but alot of that is to keep my cardiovascular system healthier because of the hormones I take rather than to just lose weight
> 
> A former pro said no cardio is needed to get down to 8%, it can be done on weight training and diet!


I'd love to think that's true and not just for those with fantastic genetics. Started running early doors a few morning a week but my knees are completely shot to bits already, not been able to do anything in the best part of a fortnight now.


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

over reliance on low impact cardio at low intensity for long durations tends to cause a phenotype change in your muscles, to the smaller type 2 fibres. I wouldn't advice it for someone dieting for a show, unless they had boat loads of weight to come off. It works no question and it can help you get in shape, but it can end up leaving you smaller than if you had performed a high intensity style training.

Dieting for a show for a natty shouldn't really be any different for an assisted bodybuilder Yanny. The goal of trying to preserve as much muscle as possible while burning the excess fat is still the same. The assisted bodybuilder though has more tools in his locker to obviously preserve that precious muscle mass. Despite anabolics, a low carb approach, or keto diet will still result in the loss of muscle, as will over doing cardio, and restricting your calories to much. I'd liken the scenario to a clinical trial and examples I've given in the past: two subjects on two different diets. One Keto or low carb, one moderate carb, high protein and low fat. subjects lose a similar amount of weight yet, the ones on the higher carb, low fat diet retain more muscle mass and obviously improve body composition. So why as a assisted bodybuilder would you want to go down the route of a diet you know is more catabolic in the first place?

Now with that in mind, I don't see how with a combination of various substances available to the assisted bodybuilder they would fail to meet that goal of preserving muscle and burning fat. I'd say that dieting naturally this is much more of a challenge.

I've heard of plenty of examples from guy's on the natural circuit who don't do cardio to get in shape for shows and managed to achieve BF levels well below 8%, Last years British Grand Prix Champion Dave Kaye was a great example of this and he looked sick!

You have to realise as a natural, a lot of us are really don't want to do much cardio, simply because of how catabolic it can be, especially low moderate pace stuff, the goal is always muscle preservation.

As for brown fat Dave, I called it a myth but I guess that's unfair since it exists. We have small deposits on our back between our shoulder blades and a few other places close to organs. The evidence that it's metabolically active though in situations such as exercise is less than compelling, in fact there is very little evidence that it maybe metabolically active in anything apart from scenarios involving shivering to keep warm, and even that evidence is sketchy. It seems to play a role though in new born babies, and rodents have large deposits. Any substance that works on activating brown adipose tissue would have to be effective in activating brown adipose tissue uncoupling protein, or at least play a part in that pathway. So lean-R may have a role there, I'm not sure what ingredient would play a part. The contribution of brown fat to actual energy expenditure in situation where your not shivering is likely to be low.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

just googles dave kaye 

what if the cardio wasnt for prolonged periods tho?

do you not think that the extra chemicals you`d be getting from the food might not be beneficial?

or is it essentially a case of swings and roundabouts, ie a trade off..


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Low intensity cardio has to be extended in order to make it predominately a fat burning pursuit, otherwise you have a trade off between just burning extra glucose and a little bit of cardio. Even if you include it at the end of an exercise session it's to catabolic, since glucocorticoids tend to be elevated and the primary concern should be to start the refuelling process. Then consider how much extra calories you stand to burn in such a workout 50 - 100 kcals that would equate to maybe 13 - 25g of extra protein or carbs. Ifyour going to do that type of cardio keep it for the morning when you wake up after a pro shake or breakfast just to get the metabolism kick started for the day.


----------



## MichelleD (Dec 9, 2011)

My brain has gone into serious overthinking mode, so I apologise for what's coming! :becky:

I have some stubborn bodyfat I still need to lose, but a lot of muscle I need to gain. I do 3xhour long and 2x30 min cardio sessions a week, of which 4 out of 5 sessions are first thing in the morning. In your opinion, am I thwarting my efforts at gaining muscle by doing this? I also eat more to compensate for the cardio.


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

If it was me personally, I would rather burn 500 calories doing cardio and eat that amount extra rather than just cut the 500 calories out!

Also Andy, there is no way you can preserve muscle the same way as an enhanced bodybuilder

They can starve themselves and along as the hormones are high enough, they will be okay

A natural bodybuilder would be eating muscle tissue all day long adopting that procedure


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

yannyboy said:


> If it was me personally, I would rather burn 500 calories doing cardio and eat that amount extra rather than just cut the 500 calories out!
> 
> Also Andy, there is no way you can preserve muscle the same way as an enhanced bodybuilder
> 
> ...


Completely agree, I maybe never made that clear or there's a typo somewhere. A "natty" is at a much great risk of losing muscle, hence why you wouldn't want to risk that muscle with ton's of cardio, and why diet has to be the main priority when trying to lose weight. it's massively catabolic cardio for reasons I'm not going to go into (but in lay terms you get an increase in protein breakdown and you don't see the large spikes in protein synthesis you get with resistance training). I'm not sure where you get 500 calories from though if you do 40 - 60 minutes of cardio at a low intensity, you might burn 300+ and I'd rather have that come from cutting calories than lose muscle because of a phenotype conversion that I mentioned previously, and no amount of hormone will prevent that. Type 1 fibres are small so placing that much emphasis on them with large amounts of cardio is silly

to lose 500 calories from just cardio might be 1hr 30 minutes worth of work.

Think about a diet long term not just from week to week. If you start off doing 40 minutes of cardio every day or ever other day like so many do, by the time you get within a few weeks of a show your in a deficit, doing ton's of cardio and training 5 or 6 days a week. It's exhausting and I've done it got in shape and won shows, but you want to be fresh, full and strong when your on stage not depleted flat and weak. When do you rest the CNS after all. I've competed for a number of years 2006 was my first show and I've done diets high carb, low carb, high protein and so on the first year I went from doing a lots of cardio to almost none I was almost a stone heavier on stage, now that's unheard of for a natural bodybuilder to gain that amount of muscle, it all comes down to your prep. I know a lot of the top guy's in the natural scene in the UK it's not just me that takes this approach.

If you want to shift fat Michelle, then like I said to Yanny why would you add calories to compensate for those cardio sessions? and like I've mentioned multiple times why would you want to increase the number of smaller muscle fibres, thirdly cardio is massively catabolic when your natural. Your Cal's client so I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

I think you should sit down and reassess your goals. Are you trying to get ripped for summer, do you just want to feel good in your own skin. Whats the real long term goals? I mean do you want to compete? whatever the goal is, it will be better served if you have more muscle and you can train harder in the gym, than if your eating into all that hard gained mass with cardio.


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

I agree with alot of Andys points but one thing I will say about cardio, the more you do it, the more efficient your body becomes

i.e. when you first start doing cardio, you could do 30 mins and burn 200 calories with bpm reaching maybe 130

After a month, the 30 mins cardio might only shift 150 calories and bpm only getting to 120

Which shows as time goes by, to keep the cardio at the same intensity, you will have go faster, use more resistance or go longer to keep it constant


----------



## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

Great thread !!


----------



## MichelleD (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. My aim is to compete within the next couple of years. I guess Cal will read this and give me his response! Thanks again


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah more or less Yanny,

Thanks franki, anymore topics you wan't me to give an insight into fire away.

We'll see you up there soon enough I'm sure Michelle.


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

First rate reason for me to avoid cardio!! 

I have little time to commit to it, my knees are starting to play up and to be totally honest I don't bloody well enjoy it either!

Diet/training have taken me this far so I feel they can take me further yet.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

m is on hols in a few weeks time..

nothing gets in the way of fatloss till the bikini is on..

ive tried.. lol

whole story always helps.


----------



## MichelleD (Dec 9, 2011)

10 days actually lol


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

We'll have to run a book to see if M can steer clear of MC while on hols??!


----------



## MichelleD (Dec 9, 2011)

Dorsey said:


> We'll have to run a book to see if M can steer clear of MC while on hols??!


I can give you the answer already - no I won't be able to! I'll get 90 mins wifi access a day there, so that will be my daily MC ration :becky: I'm obsessed!!!


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ha, you most certainly are dudette!! Once we get on a plane this year I think I'll be read the riot act regarding MC!!


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

AChappell said:


> If you want to shift fat Michelle, then like I said to Yanny why would you add calories to compensate for those cardio sessions? and like I've mentioned multiple times why would you want to increase the number of smaller muscle fibres, thirdly cardio is massively catabolic when your natural. Your Cal's client so I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
> 
> I think you should sit down and reassess your goals. Are you trying to get ripped for summer, do you just want to feel good in your own skin. Whats the real long term goals? I mean do you want to compete? whatever the goal is, it will be better served if you have more muscle and you can train harder in the gym, than if your eating into all that hard gained mass with cardio.


andy to be fair we`re not talking about losing bf for a competition right now and the aims are to get M`s bf down so theres no problem areas, we minimize muscle wastage by training less frequently and relying on rest more than most.

any issues i may have with bulking are my own and not down to me not my methods..imo.. 

her weights are all going up so i suspect she`s not over doing cardio, she looking leaner and muscle size is more apparent on an almost weekly basis.. *altho its gonna be reigned in after her holiday*..

i think saying cardio is massively catabolic is rather alarmist tbh, however dieting down for a comp is a lil bit different to where we`re at right now..

i walk the dog hard 2x a day for 30 mins every day, its not systemically demanding and the health benefits for me seem obvious..

on my fitness instructors course (lol) i was told something like this..

Cardiovascular exercise can aid weight training. Aerobic training stimulates the flow of oxygen throughout the body, enhancing the state of blood vessels. Blood vessels bring oxygen and nutrients to muscles and takes away waste products, *enhancing muscle synthesis*. If you strengthen the condition of your blood vessels, *you improve muscle-building capacity*. Cardiovascular exercise also burns calories, allowing you to eat more muscle-building foods.

the wabba dude also said something about increasing the amount of blood vessels to a muscle??? thereby allowing more blood to a muscle, thereby allowing an increase in the size of the muscle.. sommat like that, as you know i`m no scientist lol..

ive also read that theres nothing more anabolic than food..

less food you eat less anabolic help..

altho is M is gonna compete we`re gonna take little steps, first step is to look good, get rid of any extra fatty areas, get her abs showing then focus on building a frame for her body and focus on compounds.

nope its not important for her abs to show, but she`s only been training 6 months and she want what everyone wants, then we`ll work on next steps..

we have a picture a chick with abs as the first goal..

so far we`re 6 months ahead of schedule :wink:

this is the first goal..

actually the first goal is to win the t bullet challenge naturally assuming i dont lol altho from what my man flint has been saying his before pictures will have no shame lol...

gonna be a crazycal 1 2 3 eitherway haha :becky:

actually jking aside the way life is right now, i`ll be happy to just to get my training in, stay injury free and keep my weight up.. psyche! :becky:


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

I read an article a while back saying that pro's actually grow into a show, i.e. they lose bodyfat whilst simultaneously gaining muscle

How do they do it, by doing tons of cardio and still being able to eat tons of food!!

Obviously they are taking huge amounts of drugs, so whether this can be carried over for the natty is something for debate!


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i`ll be specific, im not talking about precontest dieting cos i simply dont know, i *think *i`m talking to within 3-6 months of a comp from 2-3 years out.


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

So M's long term plan is to compete in 2-3 years Cal?


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yes, when she`s ready too, not cos we`ve set an unrealistiCALly early date we feel compelled to stick too..

similar to your good self..


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> yes, when she`s ready too, not cos we`ve set an unrealistiCALly early date we feel compelled to stick too..
> 
> similar to your good self..


Exactly, I'm going to take it as it comes as well, although if I'm not ready by the time I'm 50, 5 years away, I will be disappointed!


----------



## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

I have found a good tight diet with little cardio, except maybe walking! was more benificial, than doing loads of cardio and having a bit of a sloppy diet, but I have dieted down well on over 3000 calories, clean eating, low carb, but obviously a natty must be a little more careful, I take a while to get my head around a diet and take a couple of weeks cutting things out and lowering certain macros, but I always raise my fats if I lower my carbs, and not all healthy fats either! obviously these would have to go down as your target date nears, something like a holiday is perfect to try things out and see howe your body reacts imo...


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

I agree with Freddie on keeping fats higher when carbs go down

I've done this since Xmas and I've lost plenty of bodyfat!


----------



## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

Using coconut oil at the moment, its pretty good, I put it in my shakes, cook with it, I have had dirty ones like suger free jelly and double cream, and cheese under the grill while dieting and lost weight nicely, it doesnt seem that dark when you have those little treats lol


----------



## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

AChappell said:


> On request from Dazza, here's my current diet I'm following for the BNBF Scottish Championships in June. The plan is obviously to get in the best shape possible for the show so I've cut my calorie's from around 3000kcal down to 2600kcal to create a deficit to start the fat burning possible. It's worked pretty well so far since I've gone from being 14st to around 13st 4. I'll continue to drop calories out the diet as the weight loss begins to slow. Here's the plan though.
> 
> *On waking: *20g of Extreme Whey
> 
> ...


Cheers Andrew nice to see your diet brake down, you've lost that much weight already when did you start you cut then ?

Am doing ok on my cut so far gone from 12st7 to 11st7 added cardio recently I know you don't like this lol. Measurements seem to be stable in the right areas so hopefully keeping the muscle and losing fat, BF gone from 24% to 16.9% according to my BF calipers


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

TheCrazyCal said:


> andy to be fair we`re not talking about losing bf for a competition right now and the aims are to get M`s bf down so theres no problem areas, we minimize muscle wastage by training less frequently and relying on rest more than most.
> 
> any issues i may have with bulking are my own and not down to me not my methods..imo..
> 
> ...


This thread is dieting for a show for the natural bodybuilder. Now I've gone over this multiple times as to why it's more important for the natural to avoid lots of cardio, during his/her prep. And as anabolic as food is, it's still out stripped by that of a a mechanical stimulus, so you always run the risk of losing tissue, more cardio more catabolic. Now the amount of M say's she's doing sounds like a classic formula for eating muscle tissue no matter how you address rest or muscle wasting, hour long sessions should be avoided period. I'm not against cardio. it's benefits are obvious, but it's important to do the right kind. If your clients goal is to develop a muscular strong physique why would you have them engage in the same kind of activity as a distance runner, with such long sessions. H.I.I.T is the only cardio I'd recommend for anyone looking to get in shape for a show or if they where looking to shed pounds for a summer holiday. Your metabolism stays elevated far longer, so you burn more fat, you stimulate those type 2 fibres, catabolism is significantly reduced and you increase both anaerobic and aerobic enzymes. It's far more efficient,more specific, less time consuming, plus the angiogenesis you referred to will be far more pronounced as will the other benefits, of cardio compared to long sessions.

I think you should look to address all of the issues you've talked about by following a H.I.I.T protocol rather than lots of low intensity cardio sessions.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ok mate i`ll leave it there i think...thanks..


----------



## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

Before pictures will be posted tonight with luck xxx


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Andy, is there no truth in that low to moderate cardio burns fat but if it gets too high, then glycogen will be burned instead

I've always done low impact cardio, bpm 120-130, and I've lost fat very nicely, then again, I'm not a natty!


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

I wouldn't say it's the truth Yanny, but not to wide of the mark.

Energy systems can't be separated so it's not a case of a switch where you start using one fuel source or another, the contribution just becomes greater from one fuel source.

The low intensity cardio your talking about between 60 - 70% of your HR will primarily burn glycogen as it's main energy source initially. B-oxidation is fairly inefficient process, but after around 20 minutes of exercise the main metabolic fuel your body utilises will be fat. Where as the energy contribution from glycogen will be much lower. The two are not independent though and glycogen may contribute between 20-30% of the total energy. Gluconeogenesis will also start ticking over to provide a small energy contribution from protein (hence why it's catabolic, and why people will take aminos during cardio). The fact that glycogen is still used is why runners hit the wall during marathons, they simply run out of fuel.

As activities become more intense of more anaerobic in nature the demand for energy becomes greater, so you start to see a switch back to a more glycogen dependent exercise and the contribution from fat at say 80% of your max HR may only be 20 - 30% but your still burning fat. The same pattern will continue until you reach your anaerobic threshold where you can't deliver oxygen to your muscles fast enough to keep the process aerobic and your body has to start relying on lactate, and the PCr,ATP systems for fuel, which only have a limited capacity for endurance and the inevitable cessation of exercise whether you like it or not will follow.

These systems are highly trainable though, and actually what you tend to see in top athletes is an ability to utilise fat as the main energy source at intensities up to 85% of their max HR while they might have a lactate threshold as high as 90%.

Not being a natty you don't really have to worry about the catabolic processes of cardio, for the natty you have to look at it as much more as a metabolic stimulator rather than a tool for creating a energy deficit.

Anyway I hope that answers your question.


----------



## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Very good post Andy ^^^^


----------

