# The ultimate fat loss /stage condition diet



## banzi

I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.

For your info



> SIMPLE- HOW TO GET CONTEST SHREDDED FOR ANYONE.
> 
> All these trainers and coaches make me sick acting like if it's some rocket science **** they are giving away, I have no problem with PT or coaches, they are good for motivation and guidance but where my problem lies is when they mislead their clients into thinking this **** is rocket science.
> 
> If you are on HRT or juice then listen up.
> 
> *Unlimited foods from "protein only sources" + low carbs (green veg allowed) and 20-40 grams of healthy fats will get anyone into single digits.*
> 
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> Unlimited foods from "protein only sources" + No carbs (green veg and others allowed)+ 20-40 grams of healthy fats will get you to contest bodyfat levels.*
> 
> *
> *
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> *
> Forget the calorie counting Bull ****, forget the complicated dietary metabolism Bull ****, forget the rocket science, all garbage, don't spend money on some expert trying to act like it is Calculus or physics. What I wrote above will get** ANYONE from point A to point B (contest shape) period.*
> 
> *
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> **THE LIST*
> 
> *
> *
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> **OK, here are your protein sources;*
> 
> Egg whites
> 
> Chicken breast
> 
> lean Turkey
> 
> Cod
> 
> Haddock
> 
> Salmon
> 
> Tuna
> 
> Talipia
> 
> Shrimp
> 
> Liver
> 
> Protein shake ( find one with less then 4 grams of carbs per serving)
> 
> *Now the following protein sources are kept to once a day;*
> 
> Lean steak
> 
> Lean ground beef
> 
> Lean roast beef
> 
> Veal
> 
> In general I do not consider certain vegetable source to be carbs, cause your metabolism process them without any storage of fat, in other words the calories do not convert to fat
> 
> *Here are your vegetable source;*
> 
> Asparagus
> 
> Broccoli/purple sprouting broccoli
> 
> Cabbage
> 
> Cucumber
> 
> Onion
> 
> Spinach
> 
> Romaine lettuce
> 
> Tomatoes
> 
> Green Peppers
> 
> *Now the following vegetables should be kept to a minimum;*
> 
> Celery
> 
> Carrots
> 
> Mushrooms
> 
> Peas
> 
> Dietary fats can come from flax oil or a supplement, I do not recommend they come from nuts or sees. From experience it is very easy to go crazy eating from nuts and seeds and can sabotage your diet.
> 
> Diet drinks are allowed, they have zero calories anyway.
> 
> Keep your veg. to one serving per meal.
> 
> *ECA to fuel workouts on no carbs*
> 
> 12 weeks maximum use only
> 
> The way ECA works is it gives you more energy on less carbs, so say you take 32mg of ephedrine and you have ate 300 grams of carbs, the energy you get from the ECA will NOT be that great, if you ate 200 grams of carbs then the additional energy you get from it ECA will be more, and if you ate 100 grams it will be more yet. On 0 carbs the energy increase is the greatest on ECA. It is almost as if the carbs diminish it's potency.
> 
> So it is amazing on a no carb diet. But the problem is people do not know how to use ECA in a maximum beneficial manner so they do not get proper results. First mistake is they take it daily and periodically, huge mistake, your receptors get used to the stimulants fast so before you know it you have to keep upping the dose to achieve the same levels of energy it produces.
> 
> This is how I use it, only on training days and prior to a workout to start off with, I will take 32mg of ephedrine, 200mg caffeine, and 80mg aspirin 20 minutes before a workout and I am on a no carb diet and the energy from the ECA is NO different from that of having eaten tons of carbs, I swear absolutely no different in energy levels at all, still cranking 400 on the bench for reps no problem.
> 
> By only using it when I need it I will not tap out my receptors that quickly and at around the 3 week mark I will take 48mg of ephedrine instead of 32 cause by this point I will need more to achieve the same results.
> 
> at the 5 week mark I am up 64 mg at one time and 300mg of caffeine, the aspirin always stays at 80mg cause the body does not adapt to aspirin ( at least not noticeably). Now every 4 workouts I up the ephedrine by 8mg and when I get to the 96mg of ephedrine I add another 100 mg of caffeine. Remember up to this point your primary reason to have used ECA is as a stimulant for your workout and of course there are other secondary benefits as well.
> 
> At week six I take 8mg of ephedrine when I wake up and 8mg at launch, at week 7 I take 16mg of ephedrine when I wake up and 16mg at launch, at week 8 I take 24mg of ephedrine when I wake up and so on and so on. *Now the primary reason for the ECA in the morning and at launch is for fat burning and to suppress appetite, while your pre-workout ECA still remains as a stimulant.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> *
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> *
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> *
> **Incorporating clen on a no carb diet*
> 
> TWO ways to do this, one requires you change your diet every two weeks and the other allows you to keep the same diet, however, your ECA protocol has to be changed.
> 
> *Protocol one;* Ok you are running on zero carbs so ECA is a must, and NO CARB diet has to include a stimulant such as ECA no matter what so since ECA and Clen together is rather hard on your heart, so I propose you take clen for 2 weeks and then ECA for 2 weeks, Clen for 2 weeks and then ECA for 2 weeks etc.
> 
> The 2 weeks you are on clen you will not have ECA to fuel your workout so you must take in carb pre-workout, but we are talking 100-150 grams of carbs daily. So your diet will be a no carb diet for 2 weeks (ECA) then a low carb diet for 2 weeks (Clen) etc. Plain and simple.
> 
> *Protocol two;* This one is a little harder so DO NOT do it if you are feeling to much anxiety, BE CAREFUL.
> 
> As mentioned earlier in the thread that on a NO CARB diet one must take ECA for 2 different reasons- reason #1 to stimulate your workout and reason #2- to stimulate fat burning and appetite suppressant.
> 
> Once you start taking Clen drop reason #2, I repeat drop taking ECA multiple times per day as a fat burner and an appetite suppressant. Now the reason is your fat burning will come from Clen and it is already doing a good job so ECA for fat burning is NOT necessary, also there are NO synergistic affect anyway. Now you still need to take ECA as a stimulant pre-workout, this is a must to fuel your workout. At this point nothing changes in your diet, still a no carb diet with Clen as your main source of fat-lose tool and ECA as your main source of stimulant to duel your workout.
> 
> *CONCLUSION;* Do not ask me which one is better, it is not anyones call but yours, this could be hard on your system so make sure you dot all i's and cross all your t's before you make a mistake that can hurt you.
> 
> Now as far as dosage, again Clen reactions vary from person to person so I do not know what would be to much or to little for anyone, but I will say this though; start at 20mcg and work your way up, add a little every 2 days until you reach what you like. If you do protocol 2 since you are on ECA as well I would not recommend you ever cross 100 mcg daily and that is a lot. Most people stick to 40-60.
> 
> *ADDRESSING THE CHEAT/CARB DAY[/*
> 
> If you are on low carbs no need for this
> 
> On a no carb diet most people use the weekly approach for a carb up day. I do not use this approach.
> 
> What I do is simple, I pick intervals in body weight throughtout the course of my journey and once every interval is met I have a cheat day.
> 
> Here is an example; start the diet at 250lb and I end up at 205lb so I pick all my cheat days in advance like this;
> 
> 244 lb
> 
> 239 lb
> 
> 234 lb
> 
> 229 lb
> 
> 225 lb
> 
> 221 lb
> 
> 217 lb
> 
> 214 lb
> 
> 211 lb
> 
> 208 lb
> 
> 205 lb
> 
> Every time I hit my next weight goal I have a carb up day. The carb up day is 300-350 grams of carbs and it does not matter if the carbs are from complex sources or simple sources cause you are way depleted anyway, you will burn it all regardless.
> 
> Now notice how the first interval is 6lb and the last one is only 3 lb, well that is because at the beginning you lose lots of weight fast and then as you approach less bodyfat your weight lost slow down. weigh yourself on empty stomach first thing in the morning


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## Abc987

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


Why mushrooms to a minimum?


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## Pinky

Good read  some useful info  its common sense really imo about the food choices etc


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## alekan

IIFYM is far superior


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## Alanricksnape

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


Instructions unclear, penis stuck in ceiling fan.


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## lukeyybrown1

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


I am currently running a low carb diet put after reading this my good fats are far too high.

can you just clear this up for me..... so for example if I am 210lbs and my goal weight is 200lbs... once I hit my 200lbs with 0 carbs i then have a cheat meal so I can then lose more weight again because currently I am doing 5 days low carbs and then 1 day carb up day. Regardless of weight loss.

Thanks mate great read.


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## 31205

So you could eat 2kg of chicken breast per day and that doesn't matter?


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## 31205

lukeyybrown1 said:


> I am currently running a low carb diet put after reading this my good fats are far too high.
> 
> can you just clear this up for me..... so for example if I am 210lbs and my goal weight is 200lbs... once I hit my 200lbs with 0 carbs i then have a cheat meal so I can then lose more weight again beause currently I am doing 5 days low carbs and then 1 day carb up day. Regardless of weight loss.
> 
> Thanks mate great read.


No, your goal is the bottom number. You'd have a carb up at weights in between your start weight and target weight. What weights you do the carb up is up to you. You only wanna shift 10lbs so you'd probably only have a few carb ups. He's trying to lose 45lbs.


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## Acidreflux

Basically an atkins diet without the fat...


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## Jalex

Oh no...y u do dis @banzi !!!!

Just as I was about to relax and get ready for bed...


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## BoxerJay

"In general I do not consider certain vegetable source to be carbs, cause your metabolism process them without any storage of fat, in other words the calories do not convert to fat"

I never knew this, is it definitely true?


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## 31205

What is classed as low carb? Unlimited protein only + low carb. How low is low and when does low stop being low? @banzi


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## Jalex

Okay. Ima pull a reversal. When people advocate iifym people against it go straight to the extremes I.e eating McDonald's and ice cream inky to fit macros.

In this scenario, you're saying if I eat 3kg of chicken breast, one nice big portion of lean beef, and 15 bowls of the listed vegetables (which would no doubt take me way into a surplus), I would not gain any fat? And would actually still lose fat? As the vegetables have no carbs right?

Lmao please...!


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## banzi

Jalex said:


> Okay. Ima pull a reversal. When people advocate iifym people against it go straight to the extremes I.e eating McDonald's and ice cream inky to fit macros.
> 
> In this scenario, you're saying if I eat 3kg of chicken breast, one nice big portion of lean beef, and 15 bowls of the listed vegetables (which would no doubt take me way into a surplus), I would not gain any fat? And would actually still lose fat? As the vegetables have no carbs right?
> 
> Lmao please...!


Try it tomorrow and see how many days you can do it for.

Diets like these are self regulating, you dont know until you try.


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## banzi

sen said:


> So you could eat 2kg of chicken breast per day and that doesn't matter?


Go for it mate, see how many days you can keep it up.


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## banzi

sen said:


> What is classed as low carb? Unlimited protein only + low carb. How low is low and when does low stop being low? @banzi


Its not my diet mate, all the info is there.


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## sauliuhas

Tomato, onion, liver, cabbage, wuld be a no go for me!


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## banzi

sauliuhas said:


> Tomato, onion, liver, cabbage, wuld be a no go for me!


then dont choose them, its up to you what you pick.


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## nWo

Jalex said:


> Okay. Ima pull a reversal. When people advocate iifym people against it go straight to the extremes I.e eating McDonald's and ice cream inky to fit macros.
> 
> In this scenario, you're saying if I eat 3kg of chicken breast, one nice big portion of lean beef, and 15 bowls of the listed vegetables (which would no doubt take me way into a surplus), I would not gain any fat? And would actually still lose fat? As the vegetables have no carbs right?
> 
> Lmao please...!


I won't get involved in the whole IIFYM vs clean eating debate (I'm IIFYM for the record), but here's a study that suggests that excess amounts of protein don't lead to fat gain, done on experienced lifters The effects of consuming a high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained individuals. - PubMed - NCBI

Basically, it suggests that protein is either used or excreted, not stored as fat. Not entirely conclusive but it seems like a well carried out study.


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## banzi

I said:


> I won't get involved in the whole IIFYM vs clean eating debate (I'm IIFYM for the record)' date=' but here's a study that suggests that excess amounts of protein don't lead to fat gain, done on experienced lifters The effects of consuming a high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained individuals. - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> Basically, it suggests that protein is either used or excreted, not stored as fat. Not entirely conclusive but it seems like a well carried out study.


Tommybananas incoming.....


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## JuggernautJake

banzi said:


> Try it tomorrow and see how many days you can do it for.
> 
> Diets like these are self regulating, you dont know until you try.


that self regulating quote is money!

thats the perfect way to describe these diets... yes if you eat TOO much chicken and TOO much veg you will gain weight.... BUT FU.CKING TRY IT... that **** is hard to do if your not a greedy bastard

hell, I'l straight up says its impossible for me to over eat on these types of foods, they are too filling... I could eat 10 plates of chips before I could 1 plate of chicken breast


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## banzi

JuggernautJake said:


> that self regulating quote is money!
> 
> thats the perfect way to describe these diets... yes if you eat TOO much chicken and TOO much veg you will gain weight.... BUT FU.CKING TRY IT... that **** is hard to do if your not a greedy bastard


I would say its impossible to do, you just get so sick of the food your body just stops you eating it.


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## banzi

JuggernautJake said:


> that self regulating quote is money!
> 
> thats the perfect way to describe these diets... yes if you eat TOO much chicken and TOO much veg you will gain weight.... BUT FU.CKING TRY IT... that **** is hard to do if your not a greedy bastard
> 
> hell, I'l straight up says its impossible for me to over eat on these types of foods, they are too filling... I could eat 10 plates of chips before I could 1 plate of chicken breast


Its like the guy who posts here bigbear (under construction guy), he claims he eats clean all the time, turkey mince and rice 5 times a day.

Guy is carrying 70lb of fat at least, no way is that happening on turkey and rice.


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## Major Eyeswater

Never got on with low carb diets myself, so I'm not speaking from experience - but isn't the lack of fat in this diet making things more difficult by stopping you from going into ketosis.


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## Carbon-12

forgot to ask. if you are keeping carbs to minimum 20-40g, and fats are this low too. how many calories should you be aiming for?


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## andyhuggins

Thanks @banzi. LOL


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## simonthepieman

Of only wine was a source of protein this diet would be heaven and I'd be ripped


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## Carbon-12

AlQaholic said:


> You missed the point numb nuts


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## PHMG

Anyone disputing this doesn't work and doesn't work well is a f.ucking idiot.

You will strip fat so fast it's crazy.

Problem is, it's hard as f.uck. I might try it.

....I'd probably last a maximum of 3 hours before I'm crying in the queue for McDonald's.


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## Jalex

PHMG said:


> Anyone disputing this doesn't work and doesn't work well is a f.ucking idiot.
> 
> You will strip fat so fast it's crazy.
> 
> Problem is, it's hard as f.uck. I might try it.
> 
> ....I'd probably last a maximum of 3 hours before I'm crying in the queue for McDonald's.


You're right bro in most cases it will work.

Because yes. They are foods with incredibly high volume to calorie ratio so it's hard to overeat.

But the point is why not just count your macros and eat foods you enjoy for the same result? Why limit yourself to these boring foods when if you ate the same calories/macros you would strip fast just as fast...!


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## B.I.G

You'll definitely lose body fat as I've yet to see someone who can overeat on purely clean foods. How long you last will be the issue lol but it will work.


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## hackskii

i see many holes in that diet, and who writes a diet based on clean, and ECA?

Celery is low in cals, high in fiber, and actually equates to nothing really.

Fish is ok, but so is meats.

Flax is an inferior Omega 3 and fish oils are far better profiles for EPA, DHA.


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## sledgehammer123

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


Is this the approach(diet) you take when dieting for a show? With zero carbs, is it 20-40grs fat that's used for fuel? Seems to low.

For the last 2 weeks Ive been on the Dave Palumbo Keto Diet. Very simple and the weight has been flying off.


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## banzi

Jalex said:


> You're right bro in most cases it will work.
> 
> Because yes. They are foods with incredibly high volume to calorie ratio so it's hard to overeat.
> 
> *But the point is why not just count your macros and eat foods you enjoy for the same result?* Why limit yourself to these boring foods when if you ate the same calories/macros you would strip fast just as fast...!


Because you dont get the same results.

You need to start paying attention.


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## banzi

MissMartinez said:


> I lasted 6 days doing this before I went to tesco and filled the trolly up with junk :lol:


Im disappointed.


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## banzi

hackskii said:


> i see many holes in that diet, and who writes a diet based on clean, and ECA?
> 
> Celery is low in cals, high in fiber, and actually equates to nothing really.
> 
> Fish is ok, but so is meats.
> 
> Flax is an inferior Omega 3 and fish oils are far better profiles for EPA, DHA.


Nothings perfect,

Anyone can add in improvements nutrition wise, we al know getting into contest shape isnt healthy any way.


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## simonthepieman

Jalex said:


> You're right bro in most cases it will work.
> 
> Because yes. They are foods with incredibly high volume to calorie ratio so it's hard to overeat.
> 
> But the point is why not just count your macros and eat foods you enjoy for the same result? Why limit yourself to these boring foods when if you ate the same calories/macros you would strip fast just as fast...!


It wouldn't be as fast


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## Tom90

@banzi if the refeed day is 300-350g carbs, would you just spread them out throughout the day?

Also, what about cardio?


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## DC1

I would consider low carb to be below 100g. I think low carb in the western diet sense could be anything below 250g - 200g. 30g or less is Keto (zero carb).

This diet will 100% work and work well without the Clen and ECA.

You simply will not overeat on these clean foods and even if you did you'd be lucky to sustain it more than a couple of days.

I'm in essence doing the same diet but my fats are a little higher as I eat whole eggs as opposed to the whites.

I've gotten to the same weight 2 months earlier than last year with zero cardio. I have been taking T3 and IMO this is a perfect supplement to a diet like this which is very high in protein.


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## gsxr

This diet to me sounds very much like a take on the dukan diet, which does work its just boring as hell


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## simonthepieman

IIFYM works extremely well for dieting.

But food avoidance and restrictive diets CAN work even better. Not as fun and requires more discipline.

It verses arguments this is the point never made and concluded too.

You can tweak and alter a diet based on pub med studies, bro science or anecdotes.

But what happens to your body is all that matters


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## PHMG

Jalex said:


> You're right bro in most cases it will work.
> 
> Because yes. They are foods with incredibly high volume to calorie ratio so it's hard to overeat.
> 
> But the point is why not just count your macros and eat foods you enjoy for the same result? Why limit yourself to these boring foods when if you ate the same calories/macros you would strip fast just as fast...!


Oh I'm not disputing that at all. And as you know that's how I do it.

But the diet banzi quoted will do it much faster.

Don't know if you have tried this method mate but it is hard as. The ECA is the key. Need that for energy as you get low on energy quite fast.

It's also very good for stripping water retention fast as sometimes it's hard to tell if holding fat or water. Few days on this with the ECA and increased water intake and you tighten right up and know where you stand.


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## PHMG

simonthepieman said:


> IIFYM works extremely well for dieting.
> 
> But food avoidance and restrictive diets CAN work even better. Not as fun and requires more discipline.
> 
> It verses arguments this is the point never made and concluded too.
> 
> You can tweak and alter a diet based on pub med studies, bro science or anecdotes.
> 
> But what happens to your body is all that matters


Exactly. IIFYM works well and is more manageable for people that that to live in the real world, want to look good and don't really consider themselves bodybuilders.

The diet posted is for your hard-core, very disciplined individuals that want to push themselves and thrive on the challange.

Even doing it sporadically on an IIFYM style diet is beneficial.


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## TommyBananas

The ultimate fat loss / stage prep diet:

Adherence

Calorie Deficit

Macronutrient goals to be hit

bye


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## PHMG

TommyBananas said:


> The ultimate fat loss / stage prep diet:
> 
> Adherence
> 
> Calorie Deficit
> 
> Macronutrient goals to be hit
> 
> bye


Yes, you are right mate. No one disputing. But this is faster. No doubt about it.


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## TommyBananas

PHMG said:


> Yes, you are right mate. No one disputing. But this is faster. No doubt about it.


What the dumb, hellish, unsustainable, unnecessary diet in OP?

Faster if it creates a larger deficit, sure.


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## PHMG

TommyBananas said:


> What the dumb, hellish, unsustainable, unnecessary diet in OP?
> 
> Faster if it creates a larger deficit, sure.


Not designed for sustainability though remember. It's designed for quick results. 12 weeks max. A "flash diet" if you will.

Great challenge with even greater results.

.....No fu.cking way I'd last


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## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> What the dumb, hellish, unsustainable, unnecessary diet in OP?
> 
> Faster if it creates a larger deficit, sure.


This is where you and jalex and your naivity fall down. If it can be sustained. It isn't unsustainable.

Many people can. Most of them are far better condition than you both (and I)

And it's more than just deficit. Of expect a learned man like your self to know that


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## TommyBananas

simonthepieman said:


> This is where you and jalex and your naivity fall down. If it can be sustained. It isn't unsustainable.
> 
> Many people can. Most of them are far better condition than you both (and I)
> 
> And it's more than just deficit. Of expect a learned man like your self to know that


It can be sustained if you want to enjoy a dull, boring life and never enjoy your meals, or time with friends/family if they are eating out.


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## PHMG

TommyBananas said:


> It can be sustained if you want to enjoy a dull, boring life and never enjoy your meals, or time with friends/family if they are eating out.


But there are some that will enjoy being like that. The extremely dedicated. They will thrive on it and will look awesome.

It's not for me personally but different stokes and all that.


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## TommyBananas

PHMG said:


> But there are some that will enjoy being like that. The extremely dedicated. They will thrive on it and will look awesome.
> 
> It's not for me personally but different stokes and all that.


As I've said before, if someone *really* wants to do it, thats cool - its when they do it thinking they have to that grinds my gears


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## PHMG

TommyBananas said:


> As I've said before, if someone *really* wants to do it, thats cool - its when they do it thinking they have to that grinds my gears


Completely agree with that.


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## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> It can be sustained if you want to enjoy a dull, boring life and never enjoy your meals, or time with friends/family if they are eating out.


You confusing a lifestyle with a diet.

No everything is the a permanent plan.

Well that's the great think about IIFYM, it can be. But just like mixing and rotating HIIT and LISS can achieve better result. Wavering intensity and staging diets can and often delivers better results.


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## TommyBananas

simonthepieman said:


> You confusing a lifestyle with a diet.
> 
> No everything is the a permanent plan.
> 
> Well that's the great think about IIFYM, it can be. But just like mixing and rotating HIIT and LISS can achieve better result. Wavering intensity and staging diets can and often delivers better results.


But its still unnecessary to go to the extremes of OP. Also, these kinds of eating behaviours are proven to lead to eating disorders.

Rigid vs. flexible dieting: association with eating disorder symptoms in nonobese women. - PubMed - NCBI


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## simonthepieman

PHMG said:


> But there are some that will enjoy being like that. The extremely dedicated. They will thrive on it and will look awesome.
> 
> It's not for me personally but different stokes and all that.


Exactly. Religion would never exisit with the joy of discipline and that is popular too.

A bad coach uses them as the basemark for all. Something Tommy and the Bro's share


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## TommyBananas

simonthepieman said:


> Exactly. Religion would never exisit with the joy of discipline and that is popular too.
> 
> A bad coach uses them as the basemark for all. Something Tommy and the Bro's share


I don't share sh1t. Some of the people I work with do not eat any junk and eat 'clean' foods only. Some follow keto. As that is what they adhere to better and enjoy eating.


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## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> But its still unnecessary to go to the extremes of OP. Also, these kinds of eating behaviours are proven to lead to eating disorders.
> 
> Rigid vs. flexible dieting: association with eating disorder symptoms in nonobese women. - PubMed - NCBI


That's a straw man and you know it. Going to the gym religiously can cause the same thing.

Doing anything with discipline and a hard to reach goal can.

Its the human condition.

You are better than this. Come on


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## TommyBananas

simonthepieman said:


> That's a straw man and you know it. Going to the gym religiously can cause the same thing.
> 
> Doing anything with discipline and a hard to reach goal can.
> 
> Its the human condition.
> 
> You are better than this. Come on


It isn't strawman, I should have said 'can' lead to eating disorders. But Layne has often said hee gets several people ccoming to him with eating disorders because of the way coaches were saying they had to eat/making them eat.

Everyone else loves to use strawman arguments, so why can't I?


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## Dan94

Wtf is a strawman?


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## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> It isn't strawman, I should have said 'can' lead to eating disorders. But Layne has often said hee gets several people ccoming to him with eating disorders because of the way coaches were saying they had to eat/making them eat.
> 
> Everyone else loves to use strawman arguments, so why can't I?


This is why the topic is ultimate, and no 'general beat practice'

I could write you a diet, youd enjoy, achieve faster progression and would involve mixing IIFYM and food avoidance, but your ego and dogma would stop you from doing it.


----------



## TommyBananas

simonthepieman said:


> This is why the topic is ultimate, and no 'general beat practice'
> 
> I could write you a diet, youd enjoy, achieve faster progression and would involve mixing IIFYM and food avoidance, but your ego and dogma would stop you from doing it.


Well I disagree, because there is no need to avoid any food, so your sentence doesn't make sense, lol.


----------



## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> Well I disagree, because there is no need to avoid any food, so your sentence doesn't make sense, lol.


I knew you would.

Youd rather sit behind dogma, with mediocre achievements. Making slow progress and have run poking holes in other than willing to try something that could be just as fun. Involve as much ice cream and make better progress.

Just because it disagrees with your values.

You are the same person you set out to dismantle. Its quite amazing.

Anyway. My KFC is getting cold


----------



## Pinky

banzi said:


> Try it tomorrow and see how many days you can do it for.
> 
> Diets like these are self regulating, you dont know until you try.


Last year i followed my BBing mates diet. Baically black coffee before workout, lift and cardio on empty tummy. 5 meals a day, 3 chicken, with broccoli one with pineapple, one with mushrooms

I did this for 2 weeks before i felt so ill, drained and weak it was awful. My skin went all dry and pasty looking. Granted i never took any pill prework outs i used C4.


----------



## Pinky

sauliuhas said:


> Tomato, onion, liver, cabbage, wuld be a no go for me!


Liver is rank. I dont know how anyone can put that kak in their mouth.


----------



## TommyBananas

simonthepieman said:


> I knew you would.
> 
> Youd rather sit behind dogma, with mediocre achievements. Making slow progress and have run poking holes in other than willing to try something that could be just as fun. Involve as much ice cream and make better progress.
> 
> Just because it disagrees with your values.
> 
> You are the same person you set out to dismantle. Its quite amazing.
> 
> Anyway. My KFC is getting cold


But your argument makes zero sense, it's no suprise that someonee such as MissMartinez would like your post, because she uses nonsensical ideologies and thinks Mike 'O Tren is a smart dude, lol.

Lets be honest here, I don't even know what point you're getting across - but I'm struggling to see why you think that your unmentioned method would be quicker than what I'm doing? You know why my way isnt quick right now? Cause I'm eating more than I should.


----------



## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> But your argument makes zero sense, it's no suprise that someonee such as MissMartinez would like your post, because she uses nonsensical ideologies and thinks Mike 'O Tren is a smart dude, lol.
> 
> Lets be honest here, I don't even know what point you're getting across - but I'm struggling to see why you think that your unmentioned method would be quicker than what I'm doing? You know why my way isnt quick right now? Cause I'm eating more than I should.


So you can't follow your own advice and you call your self a coach. No wonder your trainees have mediocre results

And just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it makes sense.

Tommy, you are naive, ignorant man. With the exception of Jalex. Who I'm not surprised, likes your posts, most people see it too.

But don't worry. You'll get there  your grounding is good at least


----------



## scottg2540

simonthepieman said:


> This is why the topic is ultimate, and no 'general beat practice'
> 
> I could write you a diet, youd enjoy, achieve faster progression and would involve mixing IIFYM and food avoidance, but your ego and dogma would stop you from doing it.


You want to write me a diet mate ???


----------



## 1manarmy

I don't think anyone who hasn't prepped for a show should personally say weather a diet will work or not, thats my opinion! Actual show condition is very different from being just lean as im learning now. This diet will work but there's many factors which are different for every person, peds.. Persons size and mass and starting bf Ect! But long story short the diet would work.


----------



## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> I followed my own advice, I got lean - you saw it. It's just not *that* important to me. I don't have the same goals as you, or someone else who wants to be sub 10% bodyfat.
> 
> I don't see why that has any relevance to the knowledge I do have, you haven't stated any method - so thats why what you've said makes no sense.
> 
> My trainess have not had mediocre results, I think thats very unfair to say  - none of them are stage athletes and all they wanted to do was either get to a healthy bodyfat or build some muscle. And apart from one of them, they're all naturals and all results were done in a very quick timeframe.


What is important to you. Size, strength, aesthetics, as athleticism, leanness?

They are all mediocre fro. What I can see.

The only thing you seem to excel at is excuses via pub med. Unless that's your goal. Then well done


----------



## Carbon-12

was waiting to see when exactly would this thread escalate............ didn't take long, did it?!


----------



## banzi

TommyBananas said:


> But your argument makes zero sense, it's no suprise that someonee such as MissMartinez would like your post, because she uses nonsensical ideologies and thinks Mike 'O Tren is a smart dude, lol.
> 
> Lets be honest here, I don't even know what point you're getting across - *but I'm struggling to see why you think that your unmentioned method would be quicker than what I'm doing?* You know why my way isnt quick right now? Cause I'm eating more than I should.


Lol , you have been cutting for 3 months at least and hardly changed

Jeez, I have dropped over as stone in 3 weeks.


----------



## banzi

MissMartinez said:


> About what gear? Most elite trainers lie so what, *layne most likely does too.*


lawsuit on-route to Ireland.


----------



## C33G

I know for a fact this wouldnt work for me, after about a week my weightloss would stall and id adapt to the diet an not be hungry and turn into a menopausal old woman.


----------



## banzi

MissMartinez said:


> I know that would grind on some people but he really is a positive person, most people I've encountered over in Danta Monica/Venice are. It's a totally different to here, ud have to go a few time for a while to see what I mean. They are all mad into that positive mental can do attitude and cutting out negative people from your life.
> 
> I kinda like that environment, people seem (whether they really are or not)happy and positive and it rubs off on you. Different strokes for different folk and all that.


I dont even ask people if they are using, I dont really care, if they look good , great, good for them.

If they tell me they are using but LLS I will try and help.


----------



## Dark sim

C33G said:


> I know for a fact this wouldnt work for me, after about a week my weightloss would stall and id adapt to the diet an not be hungry and turn into a menopausal old woman.


Why would your weight loss stall after a week?


----------



## C33G

Probably less than a week tbh - just stopped dieting on <2000 cals a day there. Plateaued so easily. Changes i made were Add in PWO shake P/C & carbs in the meal following, weightloss has continued...

When on less than 2k cals just felt ****, barely went to the loo either haha, training wasnt productive either, so yeah made the change. @Dark sim


----------



## Ultrasonic

Dan94 said:


> Wtf is a strawman?


If you're arguing/debating with someone, you misrepresent what they are saying, and then prove that this misrepresentation is false.


----------



## Dan94

Ultrasonic said:


> If you're arguing/debating with someone, you misrepresent what they are saying, and then prove that this misrepresentation is false.


Ah I see, cheers


----------



## Dark sim

C33G said:


> Probably less than a week tbh - just stopped dieting on <2000 cals a day there. Plateaued so easily. Changes i made were Add in PWO shake P/C & carbs in the meal following, weightloss has continued...
> 
> When on less than 2k cals just felt ****, barely went to the loo either haha, training wasnt productive either, so yeah made the change. @Dark sim


The diet posted is not calorie based. You can eat as much protein from the sources listed as you want.

Have you ever tried ECA? This would counteract the $hitty lethargy feeling you were getting.


----------



## 31205

Dark sim said:


> The diet posted is not calorie based. You can eat as much protein from the sources listed as you want.
> 
> Have you ever tried ECA? This would counteract the $hitty lethargy feeling you were getting.


Would eca be 100% necessary with this diet? Or would you just lose fat at a slower rate without eca?


----------



## Jalex

sen said:


> Would eca be 100% necessary with this diet? Or would you just lose fat at a slower rate without eca?


Eca is used to cover the poor layout, nutrional balance and idea behind this "diet".

I am trying a similar thing (but more of a crash diet, so different goals than this) at @banzi s suggestion and 2 days in have had to chuck in ECA due to brain fog, tiredness and performance loss. But heyho, what's another drug in the system!

Will weigh myself later expecting a huge water weight loss so difficult to tell results by the scale


----------



## Dark sim

sen said:


> Would eca be 100% necessary with this diet? Or would you just lose fat at a slower rate without eca?


It's not necessary no, would compliment yes. I would say slower without, for these reasons, ECA does have fat burning properties and with the increased energy levels they provide, they would produce more productive workouts. This way of dieting is not sustainable imo, but for a 12 week prep would work v well.


----------



## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> What is important to me? Knowledge and improving at what I do. I am mediocre at deadlift and squats so what? I am a great bencher. Does that mean I cant have knowledge or know how to do something? It doesnt and you know that too.
> 
> Thanks for the un-needed digs though  off to train!


I only go hard on you because I care.

X x


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> Eca is used to cover the poor layout, nutrional balance and idea behind this "diet".
> 
> I am trying a similar thing (but more of a crash diet, so different goals than this) at @banzi s suggestion and 2 days in have had to chuck in ECA due to brain fog, tiredness and performance loss. But heyho, what's another drug in the system!
> 
> Will weigh myself later expecting a huge water weight loss so difficult to tell results by the scale


I never use stims when dieting, never have done.

Its a diet that someone else uses and recommends, he feels the need to use stims thats his decision.


----------



## Abc987

banzi said:


> I never use stims when dieting, never have done.
> 
> Its a diet that someone else uses and recommends, he feels the need to use stims thats his decision.


I'm cutting ATM and for me im on really low carbs below 100g not to sure how much below and low fats.

I'm a bit of a sucker for stims and have been using for a while. Anyway I dropped them today and really felt the difference in the gym. I felt like I was running on empty and just couldn't keep intensity up.

I'm hoping it's on my head and I turn things around but I do think stims help whilst cutting


----------



## banzi

Abc987 said:


> I'm cutting ATM and for me im on really low carbs below 100g not to sure how much below and low fats.
> 
> I'm a bit of a sucker for stims and have been using for a while. Anyway I dropped them today and really felt the difference in the gym. I felt like I was running on empty and just couldn't keep intensity up.
> 
> I'm hoping it's on my head and I turn things around but I do think stims help whilst cutting


i dont get too wrapped up in reps and poundages when training, sure I might be a bit more fatigued, so what, I gave my all.


----------



## Abc987

banzi said:


> i dont get too wrapped up in reps and poundages when training, sure I might be a bit more fatigued, so what, I gave my all.


You speak a lot of sense recently banzi. A month a go I thought you was the biggest cvnt on ukm but your growing on me lol


----------



## babyarm

Abc987 said:


> You speak a lot of sense recently banzi. A month a go I thought you was the biggest cvnt on ukm but your growing on me lol


Oh no you didn't just say that  lol


----------



## Abc987

babyarm said:


> Oh no you didn't just say that  lol


 Can't believe it myself haha


----------



## hackskii

Overuse of stimulants can result in adrenal fatigue.


----------



## simonthepieman

Abc987 said:


> You speak a lot of sense recently banzi. A month a go I thought you was the biggest cvnt on ukm but your growing on me lol


I agree. I thought he was a bell end, but he's my favourite poster (present company excluded)

I don't agree with all he says, but he backs up what he says. Is actually helpful and in 'that thread' game up smelling of roses whilst Delhi and Tommy hit cringe town.

I'm more aligned to IIFYM, but I'd rather be associate to those who back it up with results and consistency

Although @banzi newest post is a bit crazy old man on the bus starting a fight.

I guess he's bored now antique roadshow is finishes


----------



## babyarm

Abc987 said:


> Can't believe it myself haha


Over time he does grow on you lol


----------



## Pinky

simonthepieman said:


> I agree. I thought he was a bell end, but he's my favourite poster (present company excluded)
> 
> I don't agree with all he says, but he backs up what he says. Is actually helpful and in 'that thread' game up smelling of roses whilst Delhi and Tommy hit cringe town.
> 
> I'm more aligned to IIFYM, but I'd rather be associate to those who back it up with results and consistency
> 
> Although @banzi newest post is a bit crazy old man on the bus starting a fight.
> 
> I guess he's bored now antique roadshow is finishes


Agree mate. Well said. I think theres many ways to cut fat, they all work but you have to find what works for you. What works for person A may not work for person B. I cant stand people who flatly refuse to accept any other diets work apart from the one they follow.

We all luv banz  x


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> Overuse of stimulants can result in adrenal fatigue.


Are you a doctor?


----------



## banzi

simonthepieman said:


> I agree. I thought he was a bell end, but he's my favourite poster (present company excluded)
> 
> I don't agree with all he says, but he backs up what he says. Is actually helpful and in 'that thread' game up smelling of roses whilst Delhi and Tommy hit cringe town.
> 
> I'm more aligned to IIFYM, but I'd rather be associate to those who back it up with results and consistency
> 
> *Although @banzi newest post is a bit crazy old man on the bus starting a fight.*
> 
> I guess he's bored now antique roadshow is finishes


I stubbed my toe on the corner of the coffee table.


----------



## bail

banzi said:


> Are you a doctor?


His opinion is about as worth while as yours am I not correct


----------



## banzi

bail said:


> His opinion is about as worth while as yours am I not correct


Yep.

He is just stating the obvious.


----------



## hackskii

banzi said:


> Are you a doctor?


No



banzi said:


> Yep.
> 
> He is just stating the obvious.


Not all people know the dangers of stimulants, and adrenal issues, not to mention being on gear using stimulants increases the risk of LVH.


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> No
> 
> Not all people know the dangers of stimulants, and adrenal issues, not to mention being on gear using stimulants increases the risk of LVH.


anyone using stimulants without first finding out the pitfalls deserve all they get.


----------



## A1243R

DC1 said:


> I would consider low carb to be below 100g. I think low carb in the western diet sense could be anything below 250g - 200g. 30g or less is Keto (zero carb).
> 
> This diet will 100% work and work well without the Clen and ECA.
> 
> You simply will not overeat on these clean foods and even if you did you'd be lucky to sustain it more than a couple of days.
> 
> I'm in essence doing the same diet but my fats are a little higher as I eat whole eggs as opposed to the whites.
> 
> I've gotten to the same weight 2 months earlier than last year with zero cardio. I have been taking T3 and IMO this is a perfect supplement to a diet like this which is very high in protein.


Are you only running T3 or are you on AAS too? Are you not running ECA or clen?


----------



## hackskii

banzi said:


> anyone using stimulants without first finding out the pitfalls deserve all they get.


Not to mention DNP, orals, insulin, peptides, HGH, peptides, and all gear for that matter, including pro-hormones.

Many will jump in feet first then cry for help later.


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> Not to mention DNP, orals, insulin, peptides, HGH, peptides, and all gear for that matter, including pro-hormones.
> 
> Many will jump in feet first then cry for help later.


I feel exactly the same way about those people.

They are the sort of people who put fire crackers in their mouths.


----------



## zyphy

MissMartinez said:


> About what gear? Most elite trainers lie so what, layne most likely does too.


lol you referring to layne norton?


----------



## DC1

ajguy1243 said:


> Are you only running T3 or are you on AAS too? Are you not running ECA or clen?


I'm running T3, Tren and test.


----------



## JuggernautJake

hackskii said:


> No
> 
> Not all people know the dangers of stimulants, and adrenal issues, not to mention being on gear using stimulants increases the risk of LVH.


what do you consider unsafe stimulant use?

specifically caffeine... 600mg plus a day?

or am I mis understanding the use of the word "stimulants" in this thread?

I take test and caffeine and your post has scared me lol


----------



## zyphy

MissMartinez said:


> I know that would grind on some people but he really is a positive person, most people I've encountered over in Santa Monica/Venice are. It's a totally different to here, ud have to go a few time for a while to see what I mean. They are all mad into that positive mental can do attitude and cutting out negative people from your life.
> 
> I kinda like that environment, people seem (whether they really are or not)happy and positive and it rubs off on you. Different strokes for different folk and all that.


i dont like people with a fake persona. thing is the guy has spouted 'im natty' so many times, he probably believes he is! :lol:

if he didnt constantly talk about it, i wouldve have a problem, but the guy is so up-his-own-**** it's unbelievable


----------



## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> I followed my own advice, I got lean - you saw it. It's just not *that* important to me. I don't have the same goals as you, or someone else who wants to be sub 10% bodyfat.
> 
> I don't see why that has any relevance to the knowledge I do have, you haven't stated any method - so thats why what you've said makes no sense.
> 
> My trainess have not had mediocre results, I think thats very unfair to say  - none of them are stage athletes and all they wanted to do was either get to a healthy bodyfat or build some muscle. And apart from one of them, they're all naturals and all results were done in a very quick timeframe.


you should open a gym like Vince Vaughns in dodgeball :lol:


----------



## simonthepieman

TommyBananas said:


> I can't even remember that film, lol.


cheeky dig aside, definitely worth a rewatch on a lazy day, a few characters we could link to many on here.


----------



## zyphy

MissMartinez said:


> @zyphy, can't quote for for some reason so will just reply by tagging you
> 
> To be fair he's very nice in person and quite helpful.
> 
> Its business, he's gotta differentiate himself from others and as people keep bringing it up he prob spouts off about it more than he should.
> 
> So many liars nowadays you just take it for granted that most are especially when there is money involved!


I'm sure he is a nice guy, but he goes over the top with the natty stuff. There are people out there who offer stuff like diet plains/training but dont mention they're natty when they're clearly on steroids


----------



## BennyC

LOL just LOL. Might as well devise a 'points' based system with 'free foods' I hear all the office whales banging on about all week at work.

Inb4 'what have you ever achieved your opinion/argument is invalid'.


----------



## simonthepieman

BennyC said:


> LOL just LOL. Might as well devise a 'points' based system with 'free foods' I hear all the office whales banging on about all week at work.
> 
> Inb4 'what have you ever achieved your opinion/argument is invalid'.


IIFYM and weight watchers ironically have many similarities


----------



## PHMG

simonthepieman said:


> IIFYM and weight watchers ironically have many similarities


Yeah, both work and both arnt optimum.


----------



## Tom90

I've already prepped my meals for this week, but next week I'll give this a go.

Managed to get from 95.5kg to 90.5kg over 5 weeks with ease, but have stalled the last two weeks, despite adding in more cardio.

Natty for what it's worth, hope I don't turn into a bad of bones..


----------



## latsius

banzi said:


> Go for it mate, see how many days you can keep it up.


Your right mate, on my test400 bulk last year, i ate 1.5kg of chicken breast a day for a week, as a lover of chicken breasts, my missus did me a home made grilled chicken breast burger on my day off, i said id rather a pack of biscuits and fries or something, i abused tuna, lo and behold i couldnt stand the smell, tried egg abuse, was physicallly sick, it eas a great cycle but du to me picking 1 protein source and going for it, i ended up hating food and have never really dieted properly since then

Small portions in comparison, i reckon with a mix of sources daily, i would have been alright


----------



## JuggernautJake

zyphy said:


> I'm sure he is a nice guy, but he goes over the top with the natty stuff. There are people out there who offer stuff like diet plains/training but dont mention they're natty when they're clearly on steroids


THEY ALL DO!!!!!!!!!

I'm torn how to feel about it...on 1 hand its unethical to lie on another YOU ****ING HAVE TO LIE to be successful

it's like winning the tour de france or gold in 100metre sprint , you just gotta ****ing take something to win


----------



## Jordan08

By looking at the article, one thing is for sure,It's tough to be on stage. :thumbup1:

And onetimehard is one of the moderator of getbig.com, if my memory serves me right.


----------



## 31205

latsius said:


> Your right mate, on my test400 bulk last year, i ate 1.5kg of chicken breast a day for a week, as a lover of chicken breasts, my missus did me a home made grilled chicken breast burger on my day off, i said id rather a pack of biscuits and fries or something, i abused tuna, lo and behold i couldnt stand the smell, tried egg abuse, was physicallly sick, it eas a great cycle but du to me picking 1 protein source and going for it, i ended up hating food and have never really dieted properly since then
> 
> Small portions in comparison, i reckon with a mix of sources daily, i would have been alright


Why not have a mixture rather than all tuna... All chicken... All eggs? If you have different sources all the time rather than just one, that probably keep you from getting sick of it?


----------



## SelflessSelfie

Personally this kind of diet works much better for me. The risk to over eat on IIFYM is far too great for me and the hunger gets the better of me. I have run flexible diets in the past but tend to Yo Yo a lot.

Running a clean diet now with the traditional cheat thrown in on the weekend for sanity and dropping 4lbs a week consistently. Up until recently I have had no issues with hunger or fatigue.

Macros 200p 125c 40-50f

1750-1900 calories a day.

T3, test, tren, mast and anavar help too.....


----------



## Kristina

Abc987 said:


> Why mushrooms to a minimum?


Still wondering this myself. Mushrooms have a very low carb content so not sure if the guy who wrote the diet had some other reason... can anyone point out what I'm missing?


----------



## Abc987

Kristina said:


> Still wondering this myself. Mushrooms have a very low carb content so not sure if the guy who wrote the diet had some other reason... can anyone point out what I'm missing?


Same I was hoping @banzi would of known the answer.

I love mushrooms and have them with virtually every meal


----------



## Frandeman

Full of protein for a vegetable

You know Quorn??? That ****y Vegetarians food??

It's just mushrooms.


----------



## banzi

Abc987 said:


> Same I was hoping @banzi would of known the answer.
> 
> I love mushrooms and have them with virtually every meal


No idea mate.

I dont see why the restriction on mushrooms


----------



## hackskii

I fail to see the mushroom connection for avoidance.


----------



## Stef92

Am I going wrong somewhere then with probably 50% of my 40g of fats coming from almonds/almond butter daily? Should I use some alternative? Not heard this before that nut/seed fat should be avoided? Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Nothing wrong with nuts or seeds, they are calorie dense, and I think the guy was saying one may tend to over eat them, but for the record, they happen to be good for you.


----------



## JuggernautJake

hackskii said:


> Nothing wrong with nuts or seeds, they are calorie dense, and I think the guy was saying one may tend to over eat them, but for the record, they happen to be good for you.


I just take nuts out on a cut PURELY because its easy to over eat on them


----------



## AlexB18

JuggernautJake said:


> I just take nuts out on a cut PURELY because its easy to over eat on them


I probably should do this but i just love my peanut butter far too much


----------



## JuggernautJake

AlexB18 said:


> I probably should do this but i just love my peanut butter far too much


ye man I'm the same... peanut butter whey is the closest I get ha


----------



## AlexB18

JuggernautJake said:


> ye man I'm the same... peanut butter whey is the closest I get ha


Ive actually learned to portion it out these days and leave it at that, **** knows how because 1 spoon quickly turns into 10 if im not careful haha


----------



## Ultrasonic

Just weigh nuts and peanut butter and there is zero problem.


----------



## hackskii

When I was dieting I ate lets say 1 small can of albacore, 22 grams of protein.

Then added a small apple at 20 grams of carbs.

Then had like 5 or 6 peanuts for my snack.

I counted them till I got the grams of fat I wanted in the meal/snack.


----------



## Tom90

Been on this diet since last Friday, gradually lost 3lbs over the following days until Monday, haven't been able to go to the toilet since then so weight has stuck at 194lbs..

Macros are 381 pro, 29 carb, 45 fats. Diet below

5 eggs scrambled

1 tbsp coconut oil

50g whey isolate

2 x fish oil

200g lean beef

Tomato, garlic cloves

200g chicken

100g cucumber

200g chicken

100g cucumber

20g peptopro

50g whey isolate

200g chicken

1 green pepper

2 x fish oils

1 tin of tuna

Cucumber and onion

30g casein

How do I sh!t more regularly?!


----------



## jammie2013

Tom90 said:


> Been on this diet since last Friday, gradually lost 3lbs over the following days until Monday, haven't been able to go to the toilet since then so weight has stuck at 194lbs..
> 
> Diet below
> 
> 5 eggs scrambled
> 
> 1 tbsp coconut oil
> 
> 50g whey isolate
> 
> 2 x fish oil
> 
> 200g lean beef
> 
> Tomato, garlic cloves
> 
> 200g chicken
> 
> 100g cucumber
> 
> 200g chicken
> 
> 100g cucumber
> 
> 20g peptopro
> 
> 50g whey isolate
> 
> 200g chicken
> 
> 1 green pepper
> 
> 2 x fish oils
> 
> 1 tin of tuna
> 
> Cucumber and onion
> 
> 30g casein
> 
> How do I sh!t more regularly?!


add coconut oil to your coffee


----------



## simonthepieman

Tom90 said:


> Been on this diet since last Friday, gradually lost 3lbs over the following days until Monday, haven't been able to go to the toilet since then so weight has stuck at 194lbs..
> 
> Macros are 381 pro, 29 carb, 45 fats. Diet below
> 
> 5 eggs scrambled
> 
> 1 tbsp coconut oil
> 
> 50g whey isolate
> 
> 2 x fish oil
> 
> 200g lean beef
> 
> Tomato, garlic cloves
> 
> 200g chicken
> 
> 100g cucumber
> 
> 200g chicken
> 
> 100g cucumber
> 
> 20g peptopro
> 
> 50g whey isolate
> 
> 200g chicken
> 
> 1 green pepper
> 
> 2 x fish oils
> 
> 1 tin of tuna
> 
> Cucumber and onion
> 
> 30g casein
> 
> How do I sh!t more regularly?!


broc and spinach. with that much meat you need your greens for soluble fibre and it will help alkalize your blood and stop you feeling lethargic and getting stomach acid issues too

and cocaine.


----------



## Tom90

simonthepieman said:


> broc and spinach. with that much meat you need your greens for soluble fibre and it will help alkalize your blood and stop you feeling lethargic and getting stomach acid issues too
> 
> and cocaine.


Had a sh!t twice today. I say a sh!t, but it was more like p!ssing out of my hoop, both times.

Wouldn't say I'm feeling lethargic at all. The thing is, I hate broccoli, how much spinach would I need to eat to hit decent fibre levels? Do you think a greens drink would be worthwhile?


----------



## simonthepieman

Tom90 said:


> Had a sh!t twice today. I say a sh!t, but it was more like p!ssing out of my hoop, both times.
> 
> Wouldn't say I'm feeling lethargic at all. The thing is, I hate broccoli, how much spinach would I need to eat to hit decent fibre levels? Do you think a greens drink would be worthwhile?


Better than not having greens.

****ting water is not good. It means you are still full of **** 

Spinich is amazing for you. Just ask Popeye. But you need a lot of volume. It cooks down loads.

Fry some garlic in some butter in a wide pan lightly. Put it a large bag squeeze half a lemon, toss it and put on the lids and wilt it. It will shrink to a small diat size and taste nice (I hope) add soy and chilli for a more Asian sensation


----------



## ausmaz

Re: mushrooms, i dont know what difference it makes but apparently mushrooms have a natural diuretic effect....although wouldnt that be a desirable effect for a pre-contest diet?


----------



## Tom90

simonthepieman said:


> Better than not having greens.
> 
> ****ting water is not good. It means you are still full of ****
> 
> Spinich is amazing for you. Just ask Popeye. But you need a lot of volume. It cooks down loads.
> 
> Fry some garlic in some butter in a wide pan lightly. Put it a large bag squeeze half a lemon, toss it and put on the lids and wilt it. It will shrink to a small diat size and taste nice (I hope) add soy and chilli for a more Asian sensation


All good on the weightloss front after those two ass wees, weighed 2lb less this morning, hit the first 5lb weightloss marker so having some carbs today. Had some basmati rice, gonna have some more rice later, then some noodles, and then a bowl of oats before bed


----------



## G-man99

Psyillium husk will help


----------



## Mark2021

Tom90 said:


> All good on the weightloss front after those two ass wees, weighed 2lb less this morning, hit the first 5lb weightloss marker so having some carbs today. Had some basmati rice, gonna have some more rice later, then some noodles, and then a bowl of oats before bed


How's the diet going mate? How's fat loss?


----------



## Tom90

Mark2021 said:


> How's the diet going mate? How's fat loss?


I stuck it out for two weeks, constantly felt bloated, lethargic, and I just couldn't sh!t, even eating a pound of broccoli a day.

I read Phil Learney's ebook, started listening to Mark Coles and Milos Sarcev and started to intergrate some of their principles. I'm eating a sustainable diet that's around 3000 cals a day, sh!tting regular, and managing to lose a pound or two every week, without doing any cardio! I could probably do with losing about 20lbs, but my holiday isn't for another 16 weeks, see how it pans out.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

What happened to @Jalex thread that backfired lol


----------



## bottleneck25

Good read i ate like this once for 3 months and took clen and t5 whilst using test p and tren ace and my god did i drop some weight i went from 21st to 14.5 st in just over 3 months i did however lose quite alot of muscle as i just couldnt eat enough protein to maintian the muscle i was working a job where i walked around all day also and was hitting the gym 6 times a week had more energy than ever .. But i think that was because of the t5 and clen


----------



## Big ape

who wants to go no carb and just eat veg though?


----------



## irish86

Big ape said:


> who wants to go no carb and just eat veg though?


NOT about that life ... unless I was competing.. and only a month r two


----------



## _Oscar_

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


This looks awesome and very simple to follow but is it really realistic to eat unlimited foods from protein only sources??

Surely if you're going above maintenance calories you wouldn't burn any fat?


----------



## banzi

_Oscar_ said:


> This looks awesome and very simple to follow but is it really realistic to eat unlimited foods from protein only sources??
> 
> Surely if you're going above maintenance calories you wouldn't burn any fat?


Your body self regulates, think about being full from eating a steak, you could eat a bowl of ice cream easily, another steak, not so much.

People start off eating loads of chicken but after a couple of days you struggle to eat enough to maintain let alone get fat.


----------



## _Oscar_

banzi said:


> Your body self regulates, think about being full from eating a steak, you could eat a bowl of ice cream easily, another steak, not so much.
> 
> People start off eating loads of chicken but after a couple of days you struggle to eat enough to maintain let alone get fat.


I'll try it.

Currently logging all cals into Fitday and reducing every 2 weeks or so. But at the moment I'm starving during the evening. Another 250g of turkey mince would be great if it's not going to stall my fat loss.


----------



## Ultrasonic

_Oscar_ said:


> I'll try it.
> 
> Currently logging all cals into Fitday and reducing every 2 weeks or so. But at the moment I'm starving during the evening. Another 250g of turkey mince would be great if it's not going to stall my fat loss.


Not sure if I've misread your post, but if you just add 250g of turkey mince to what you're currently eating it will reduce your rate of fat loss. Either try the whole diet or not at all.

The suggested diet is one approach for people who don't want to track food intake. Tracking as you have been is a better way to go IMHO, which is not to say the method in this thread won't get results.


----------



## banzi

Ultrasonic said:


> Not sure if I've misread your post, but if you just add 250g of turkey mince to what you're currently eating it will reduce your rate of fat loss. Either try the whole diet or not at all.
> 
> The suggested diet is one approach for people who don't want to track food intake. Tracking as you have been is a better way to go IMHO, which is not to say the method in this thread won't get results.


It will get results and its faster and easier than tracking.

And yes, if you are eating carbs and counting macros then adding in protein wont work

Its all or nothing with the diet.


----------



## Ultrasonic

banzi said:


> It will get results and its faster and easier than tracking.


It's definitely easier, but you can't argue it's faster, that will depend on what is eaten for the two diets being compared. You could eat an identical diet and count everything...


----------



## simonthepieman

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


very tempted to run this when my kid is born. I'll be tired as **** anyway and little chance to get to the pub or office where it all goes wrong.

I had a read through peoples response and they just don't get it. Whilst macro counting is great and works extremely well. Some frameworks are self regulating for 90% and the freedom of a diet plan makes it effective.

Interested to know why celery, mushrooms, carrots and peas would be excluded.

I think i get mushrooms, they act like sponge and absorb a lot of fats and oils. Which aren't bad. But for a diet like this where you don't count calories, you will find, it would likely up a few hundred calories into diet a day if you cook with the,

Celery is odd, no idea why.

Carrots do have a decent amount of calories compared to some things. because they are quite sweet raw, i find them good as a lower calorie alternative to fruit.

I love peas, good with fibre and a nice boost of protein into the mix (saying that on a diet like this protein is going to be plentiful anyway) Peas go great with steak


----------



## _Oscar_

Ultrasonic said:


> Not sure if I've misread your post, but if you just add 250g of turkey mince to what you're currently eating it will reduce your rate of fat loss. *Either try the whole diet or not at all*.
> 
> The suggested diet is one approach for people who don't want to track food intake. Tracking as you have been is a better way to go IMHO, which is not to say the method in this thread won't get results.





banzi said:


> It will get results and its faster and easier than tracking.
> 
> And yes, if you are eating carbs and counting macros then adding in protein wont work
> 
> Its all or nothing with the diet.


I'm currently having approximately 50g carbs per day all from broccoli, spinach, green peppers and onion as allowed in the diet.

My fats are approximately 50-60g per day and my protein is 230-250g per day all from chicken breast and lean turkey plus one whey PWO shake.

As far as I can see this meets with the parameters of the above diet??

My total cals usually fall in the 1750-1850 range.

However, on this diet I am very hungry in the evenings but the diet above suggests 'unlimited protein' from specified sources is permitted. What I am asking is can I consume an extra clean protein meal to reduce my hunger pangs in the evening or would this be a mistake?

Thanks for your input


----------



## Ultrasonic

_Oscar_ said:


> I'm currently having approximately 50g carbs per day all from broccoli, spinach, green peppers and onion as allowed in the diet.
> 
> My fats are approximately 50-60g per day and my protein is 230-250g per day all from chicken breast and lean turkey plus one whey PWO shake.
> 
> As far as I can see this meets with the parameters of the above diet??
> 
> My total cals usually fall in the 1750-1850 range.
> 
> However, on this diet I am very hungry in the evenings but the diet above suggests 'unlimited protein' from specified sources is permitted. What I am asking is can I consume an extra clean protein meal to reduce my hunger pangs in the evening or would this be a mistake?
> 
> Thanks for your input


If you eat exactly as you have been but add in e.g. an additional 250g of turkey mince per day it will reduce your rate of fat loss. You know this already of course.


----------



## _Oscar_

Ultrasonic said:


> If you eat exactly as you have been but add in e.g. an additional 250g of turkey mince per day it will reduce your rate of fat loss. You know this already of course.


This is what I thought, I knew it sounded too good to be true.

So the 'unlimited' protein suggestion is a load of BS then?


----------



## banzi

_Oscar_ said:


> I'm currently having approximately 50g carbs per day all from broccoli, spinach, green peppers and onion as allowed in the diet.
> 
> My fats are approximately 50-60g per day and my protein is 230-250g per day all from chicken breast and lean turkey plus one whey PWO shake.
> 
> As far as I can see this meets with the parameters of the above diet??
> 
> My total cals usually fall in the 1750-1850 range.
> 
> However, on this diet I am very hungry in the evenings but the diet above suggests 'unlimited protein' from specified sources is permitted. What I am asking is can I consume an extra clean protein meal to reduce my hunger pangs in the evening or would this be a mistake?
> 
> Thanks for your input


as said, you dont need to count anything, forget calories and macros

Eat as much lean protein as you like.


----------



## Ultrasonic

_Oscar_ said:


> This is what I thought, I knew it sounded too good to be true.
> 
> So the 'unlimited' protein suggestion is a load of BS then?


The point of the diet is it gives you a way to cut without tracking what you eat. If you stick to just the foods listed most people are pretty much guaranteed to end up in a calorie deficit and therefore get results. But there is no way in which it is somehow magically better than another keto diet with similar foods, or that eating less of these foods won't lead to faster fat loss than eating more of them.


----------



## Dark sim

_Oscar_ said:


> I'm currently having approximately 50g carbs per day all from broccoli, spinach, green peppers and onion as allowed in the diet.
> 
> My fats are approximately 50-60g per day and my protein is 230-250g per day all from chicken breast and lean turkey plus one whey PWO shake.
> 
> As far as I can see this meets with the parameters of the above diet??
> 
> My total cals usually fall in the 1750-1850 range.
> 
> However, on this diet I am very hungry in the evenings but the diet above suggests 'unlimited protein' from specified sources is permitted. What I am asking is can I consume an extra clean protein meal to reduce my hunger pangs in the evening or would this be a mistake?
> 
> Thanks for your input


So are you eating about 1kg of green veg? Normally about 5g carbs per 100g.

And the diet says 20-40g fats, you are beyond this.

On a diet you should be hungry to a certain degree.


----------



## banzi

_Oscar_ said:


> This is what I thought, I knew it sounded too good to be true.
> 
> So the 'unlimited' protein suggestion is a load of BS then?


Stop mixing this diet up with IIFMM

Its totally different

Eat the food on the list as instructed and stopp faffing about.


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> as said, you dont need to count anything, forget calories and macros
> 
> Eat as much lean protein as you like.


You're actually saying if he ate this diet for a month and lost X amount of weight. Then decided he wanted to eat 750g more chicken breast every night (which is fine per diet), the fat loss would be at the same rate and not slow down from when he wasn't eating this extra 750g chicken.

That is just ludicrous lol


----------



## Varg

Seems needlessly complex to me.

Everyone saying it's simple, but I find tracking kcals incredibly simple.

Plus, there is almost nothing on the protein list I can eat :laugh:


----------



## 2004mark

Varg said:


> Seems needlessly complex to me.
> 
> Everyone saying it's simple, but I find tracking kcals incredibly simple.
> 
> Plus, there is almost nothing on the protein list I can eat :laugh:


I think this is where people get all polarised in their opinions... some people think iifym is akin to a maths a level and like the structure of a set program, others find counting cals very easy and don't like the idea of a set structure for many reasons.

Horse for courses


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

Jalex said:


> You're actually saying if he ate this diet for a month and lost X amount of weight. Then decided he wanted to eat 750g more chicken breast every night (which is fine per diet), the fat loss would be at the same rate and not slow down from when he wasn't eating this extra 750g chicken.
> 
> That is just ludicrous lol


The point of this diet is that no one in their right mind would want to eat any more damn chicken lol


----------



## Verno

banzi said:


> No idea mate.
> 
> I dont see why the restriction on mushrooms





Jalex said:


> You're actually saying if he ate this diet for a month and lost X amount of weight. Then decided he wanted to eat 750g more chicken breast every night (which is fine per diet), the fat loss would be at the same rate and not slow down from when he wasn't eating this extra 750g chicken.
> 
> That is just ludicrous lol


That's the whole point behind the self regulation to the diet. Try eating the extra 750g of chicken, is nigh on impossible!


----------



## _Oscar_

Ultrasonic said:


> The point of the diet is it gives you a way to cut without tracking what you eat. If you stick to just the foods listed most people are pretty much guaranteed to end up in a calorie deficit and therefore get results. But there is no way in which it is somehow magically better than another keto diet with similar foods, or that eating less of these foods won't lead to faster fat loss than eating more of them.





Dark sim said:


> So are you eating about 1kg of green veg? Normally about 5g carbs per 100g.
> 
> And the diet says 20-40g fats, you are beyond this.
> 
> On a diet you should be hungry to a certain degree.





banzi said:


> Stop mixing this diet up with IIFMM
> 
> Its totally different
> 
> Eat the food on the list as instructed and stopp faffing about.


This is a typical day ..........


----------



## _Oscar_

Jalex said:


> You're actually saying if he ate this diet for a month and lost X amount of weight. Then decided he wanted to eat *750g *more chicken breast every night (which is fine per diet), the fat loss would be at the same rate and not slow down from when he wasn't eating this extra 750g chicken.
> 
> That is just ludicrous lol





Verno said:


> That's the whole point behind the self regulation to the diet. Try eating the extra *750g *of chicken, is nigh on impossible!


It was 250g extra I was suggesting.


----------



## 2004mark

_Oscar_ said:


> This is a typical day ..........
> 
> View attachment 173814


That's quite high fat chicken breast :confused1:

I'd check that out, you could be under eating


----------



## Big ape

_Oscar_ said:


> This is a typical day ..........
> 
> View attachment 173814


rather be obese then have to eat that everyday ... count your macros fit in foods u enjoy to make the process easier and fun. after using a app like myfitness pal after a week or two it litreally takes 5 mins a day to count your sh1t


----------



## Jalex

BrahmaBull said:


> The point of this diet is that no one in their right mind would want to eat any more damn chicken lol





Verno said:


> That's the whole point behind the self regulation to the diet. Try eating the extra 750g of chicken, is nigh on impossible!


Yeah am not denying its no self regulating for lazy or people that don't want a varied diet/cba to track foods.

Why would one stab in the dark for their total

Macros/calories etx.

Why wouldn't you make sure you know what you're consuming and therefore know that you're optimally working towards your goal. Rather than relying on a unstructured self regulating diet that will give you results no doubt, but like I say, how is that better than 100% knowing you are making the decisions for your desired progress?


----------



## banzi

_Oscar_ said:


> This is a typical day ..........
> 
> View attachment 173814


We are done.


----------



## Varg

Big ape said:


> rather be obese then have to eat that everyday ... count your macros fit in foods u enjoy to make the process easier and fun. *after using a app like myfitness pal after a week or two* it litreally takes 5 mins a day to count your sh1t


Correct, I'd go further - after using it for around a month you don't really need it at all because you are used to the kind of things and quantities you have to eat.


----------



## _Oscar_

2004mark said:


> That's quite high fat chicken breast :confused1:
> 
> I'd check that out, you could be under eating


That's just the breakdown given by Fitday.



banzi said:


> We are done.


Why??

Don't abandon me now, I'm trying to get this right??

I've tracked the thread down on Get Big, just reading through it now but it's 40+ pages long so going to take a while.


----------



## 2004mark

_Oscar_ said:


> That's just the breakdown given by Fitday.


Well check it... preferably on the packaging, because it's too high imo.

This is the biggest flaw with mfp and fitday... people just turn their brain off and don't bother checking

edit: 750g (raw) is 817.5 cals according to Tesco, so 400 cals less: Tesco British Chicken Breast Portions 490G - Groceries - Tesco Groceries


----------



## 31205

Big ape said:


> who wants to go no carb and just eat veg though?


I actually don't mind no carbs. Feel **** for a couple of weeks but after that I don't feel any different.


----------



## Verno

Jalex said:


> Yeah am not denying its no self regulating for lazy or people that don't want a varied diet/cba to track foods.
> 
> Why would one stab in the dark for their total
> 
> Macros/calories etx.
> 
> Why wouldn't you make sure you know what you're consuming and therefore know that you're optimally working towards your goal. Rather than relying on a unstructured self regulating diet that will give you results no doubt, but like I say, how is that better than 100% knowing you are making the decisions for your desired progress?


Simplicity....simple as!

Also it's not about counting or tracking calls or macros, why make something more difficult than it needs to be? How can you not know what your consuming? It's there in black and white!

No one is saying this diet is better than that diet :confused1: just pure and simple, it works and it works well.


----------



## banzi

_Oscar_ said:


> That's just the breakdown given by Fitday.
> 
> *Why??*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> Don't abandon me now, I'm trying to get this right??*
> 
> I've tracked the thread down on Get Big, just reading through it now but it's 40+ pages long so going to take a while.


you have the insructions in the OP

Follow them or dont, Im not a PT who has to kiss your ass.


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> Yeah am not denying its no self regulating for lazy or people that don't want a varied diet/cba to track foods.
> 
> Why would one stab in the dark for their total
> 
> Macros/calories etx.
> 
> *Why wouldn't you make sure you know what you're consuming and therefore know that you're optimally working towards your goal.* Rather than relying on a unstructured self regulating diet that will give you results no doubt, but like I say, how is that better than 100% knowing you are making the decisions for your desired progress?


----------



## Dark sim

sen said:


> I actually don't mind no carbs. Feel **** for a couple of weeks but after that I don't feel any different.


It can take that long for ketosis to kick in and you start to use ketones instead of glucose, as a fuel source.


----------



## _Oscar_

banzi said:


> you have the insructions in the OP
> 
> Follow them or dont, Im not a PT who has to kiss your ass.


LOL, I thought you were implying that there was some sort of glaring error in the Fitday table.


----------



## Jalex

Verno said:


> Simplicity....simple as!
> 
> Also it's not about counting or tracking calls or macros, why make something more difficult than it needs to be? How can you not know what your consuming? It's there in black and white!
> 
> No one is saying this diet is better than that diet :confused1: just pure and simple, it works and it works well.


What is more simple that entering "chicken breast, BBW protein flapjack, green beans" into your phone.

and "why make something more difficult than it needs to be?", because *you know* you are heading the right direction for the results you want rather than guessing.

so you can tell what deficit/surplus (which is the most important thing that matters when it comes to weight loss/gain) just by looking at the plate of cooked foods?

I'm, not saying this doesn't work, and for those that have trouble weighing, tracking and having self control, it may be better.

But who wants to eat that, even if it is for a competition, and get (more than likely) sub-par results.

People should be educated and let them choose foe the diet that suits them. Not "eat greens and unlimited chicken to get shredded".


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> View attachment 173816


If you had a company that you knew could make a profit by only doing certain things. Would you be happy with that or would you look at what the figures and what things you can do to optimally maximise your returns?


----------



## Dark sim

Jalex said:


> What is more simple that entering "chicken breast, BBW protein flapjack, green beans" into your phone.
> 
> and "why make something more difficult than it needs to be?", because *you know* you are heading the right direction for the results you want rather than guessing.
> 
> so you can tell what deficit/surplus (which is the most important thing that matters when it comes to weight loss/gain) just by looking at the plate of cooked foods?
> 
> I'm, not saying this doesn't work, and for those that have trouble weighing, tracking and having self control, it may be better.
> 
> *But who wants to eat that, even if it is for a competition, and get (more than likely) sub-par results.*
> 
> People should be educated and let them choose foe the diet that suits them. Not "eat greens and unlimited chicken to get shredded".


Elaborate on this stupid comment...


----------



## banzi

_Oscar_ said:


> LOL, I thought you were implying that there was some sort of glaring error in the Fitday table.


I didnt even look at it.


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> If you had a company that you knew could make a profit by only doing certain things. Would you be happy with that or would you look at what the figures and what things you can do to optimally maximise your returns?


If you had a puncture on a bike tyre and you only had a spoon and a sixpence, do you think you would get home by the time the milkman came around for his money.


----------



## a.notherguy

banzi said:


> If you had a puncture on a bike tyre and you only had a spoon and a sixpence, do you think you would get home by the time the milkman came around for his money.


how much money is the milkman owed?


----------



## banzi

a.notherguy said:


> how much money is the milkman owed?


I dont think its relevant


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

banzi said:


> I dont think its relevant


Is the milkman shagging his mum?


----------



## banzi

BrahmaBull said:


> Is the milkman shagging his mum?


He always has been.


----------



## a.notherguy

banzi said:


> I dont think its relevant


i do!

if he was owed alot, i would make sure i was home in time to pay him and would have to push the bike (no-one wants damaged rims or an angry milkman!).

if he wasnt owed much money, he would be happy to wait til next week so there would be no need to rush home. in this instance, id use the sixpence to buy a puncture repair kit instead.

p.s. good job i had a spoon on me cos they can make fairly decent tyre levers


----------



## banzi

a.notherguy said:


> i do!
> 
> if he was owed alot, i would make sure i was home in time to pay him and would have to push the bike (no-one wants damaged rims or an angry milkman!).
> 
> if he wasnt owed much money, he would be happy to wait til next week so there would be no need to rush home. in this instance, *id use the sixpence to buy a puncture repair kit instead*.


Cheapest one is a pound from poundland.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

banzi said:


> Cheapest one is a pound from poundland.


A pond? You keep changing the criteria.


----------



## a.notherguy

banzi said:


> Cheapest one is a pound from poundland.


hmmm, in that case, id use the 6pence to pay someone to go into poundland and get it discounted


----------



## Ultrasonic

2004mark said:


> That's quite high fat chicken breast :confused1:
> 
> I'd check that out, you could be under eating


Agreed, and I don't think the protein figure is right either, as it looks high at 30.8g per 100g. That's too high for the raw chicken I'd assume is meant, but I think also too low for cooked chicken?


----------



## Verno

Jalex said:


> What is more simple that entering "chicken breast, BBW protein flapjack, green beans" into your phone.
> 
> and "why make something more difficult than it needs to be?", because *you know* you are heading the right direction for the results you want rather than guessing.
> 
> so you can tell what deficit/surplus (which is the most important thing that matters when it comes to weight loss/gain) just by looking at the plate of cooked foods?
> 
> I'm, not saying this doesn't work, and for those that have trouble weighing, tracking and having self control, it may be better.
> 
> But who wants to eat that, even if it is for a competition, and get (more than likely) sub-par results.
> 
> People should be educated and let them choose foe the diet that suits them. Not "eat greens and unlimited chicken to get shredded".


Jakes I think your missing the whole point.

With this diet *I know* exactly where I'm heading, there is no "guess work" involved I know exactly the results it has. If you do follow this diet you *will* be in a deficit! How do I know that? I cut a lot of fat after the initial water loss.

When you say that people who use this diet have trouble tracking cals weighing foods and lack self control. With the utmost of respect, at best it's a generalisation - worst, complete bolox!

What makes you think the diet would give sub-par results? In your couple of years of training have you attempted such a diet? Btw I can tell you the results are anything but sub-par :wink:

Your last paragraph however is the one I feel we can all learn something from. Anyone who reads this thread and the countless other diet threads that we have, will be able to make an informed decision on what route they wish to take. We don't need one men armies telling us which is right and which is wrong.

Try them all! The proof of the pudding and all that.............

I don't feel *anyone* has the right to advocate or recommend a particular diet/regime/protocol until they've at least done a few for themselves.

For the record I've done most and they all have a place. This one *imo* gives *me* the best results.


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> If you had a puncture on a bike tyre and you only had a spoon and a sixpence, do you think you would get home by the time the milkman came around for his money.






Dark sim said:


> Elaborate on this stupid comment...


OK. Put in simple terms.

Why would someone want to eat chicken and broccoli, when they could get the exact (if not better, referring to me sub-par comment) same results eating varied foods provided macros/micros are exactly the same.



Verno said:


> Jakes I think your missing the whole point.
> 
> With this diet *I know* exactly where I'm heading, there is no "guess work" involved I know exactly the results it has. If you do follow this diet you *will* be in a deficit! How do I know that? I cut a lot of fat after the initial water loss.
> 
> When you say that people who use this diet have trouble tracking cals weighing foods and lack self control. With the utmost of respect, at best it's a generalisation - worst, complete bolox!
> 
> What makes you think the diet would give sub-par results? In your couple of years of training have you attempted such a diet? Btw I can tell you the results are anything but sub-par :wink:
> 
> Your last paragraph however is the one I feel we can all learn something from. Anyone who reads this thread and the countless other diet threads that we have, will be able to make an informed decision on what route they wish to take. We don't need one men armies telling us which is right and which is wrong.
> 
> Try them all! The proof of the pudding and all that.............
> 
> I don't feel *anyone* has the right to advocate or recommend a particular diet/regime/protocol until they've at least done a few for themselves.
> 
> For the record I've done most and they all have a place. This one *imo* gives *me* the best results.


Why do I have to try a diet to say it's sub-par.

We know how calories work, we know the fundamentals of weight gain/loss, how will this diet with limited foods give you better results than having the exact same calories etc with varied foods (which can be achieved by tracking etc).

Are you disupting the known facts about calories, human biology, nutrition etc?

If you say this is getting the best results, than that is not down to iut being better, but human error. You weren't tracking correctly, you had your macro split wrong, your total calorie amount wrong (granted, these need time to find out what's optimal for you).

Agreed last point, hopefully people read both sides on the information (where credible info is actually given) and debate and thereafter decide for themselves what to do.

Because at the end of the day...


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

Have the utmost respect for anyone who can do this diet. I'd rather cut off my gonads lol


----------



## dann19900

Jalex said:


> Why would someone want to eat chicken and broccoli, when they could get the exact (if not better, referring to me sub-par comment) same results eating varied foods provided macros/micros are exactly the same.
> 
> Why do I have to try a diet to say it's sub-par.
> 
> We know how calories work, we know the fundamentals of weight gain/loss, how will this diet with limited foods give you better results than having the exact same calories etc with varied foods (which can be achieved by tracking etc).
> 
> Are you disupting the known facts about calories, human biology, nutrition etc?
> 
> If you say this is getting the best results, than that is not down to iut being better, but human error. You weren't tracking correctly, you had your macro split wrong, your total calorie amount wrong (granted, these need time to find out what's optimal for you).


Because you won't be hungry on this diet, not done this exact one but normally cut on less than 50 grams of carbs. Tried iifym admittedly with more junk than 20% and I was absolutely starving hungry, if I have a biscuit or whatever iifym preaches then I want another 5. Think its just psychological, some find it easier to tell themselves they can only eat certain foods and stick to it. Same as lot of people lose weight on stuff like weight watchers despite it basically being a gimmick


----------



## Jalex

BrahmaBull said:


> The point of this diet is that no one in their right mind would want to eat any more damn chicken lol





dann19900 said:


> Because you won't be hungry on this diet, not done this exact one but normally cut on less than 50 grams of carbs. Tried iifym admittedly with more junk than 20% and I was absolutely starving hungry, if I have a biscuit or whatever iifym preaches then I want another 5. Think its just psychological, some find it easier to tell themselves they can only eat certain foods and stick to it. Same as lot of people lose weight on stuff like weight watchers despite it basically being a gimmick


Yeah that's fine mate. I agreed if people have trouble sticking to a varied diet and controlling themselves than this is where the value of this comes in, as its self-regulating.

Not disputing that at all


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> View attachment 173818
> 
> 
> OK. Put in simple terms.
> 
> Why would someone want to eat chicken and broccoli, when they could get the exact (if not better, referring to me sub-par comment) same results eating varied foods provided macros/micros are exactly the same.
> 
> Why do I have to try a diet to say it's sub-par.
> 
> We know how calories work, we know the fundamentals of weight gain/loss, how will this diet with limited foods give you better results than having the exact same calories etc with varied foods (which can be achieved by tracking etc).
> 
> Are you disupting the known facts about calories, human biology, nutrition etc?
> 
> *If you say this is getting the best results, than that is not down to iut being better, but human error. You weren't tracking correctly, you had your macro split wrong, your total calorie amount wrong (granted, these need time to find out what's optimal for you).*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Agreed last point, hopefully people read both sides on the information (where credible info is actually given) and debate and thereafter decide for themselves what to do.
> 
> Because at the end of the day...
> 
> View attachment 173819


Thats possibly the dumbest thing I ever read on this forum, you are getting better results and its because you are doing it wrong?????


----------



## 2004mark

dann19900 said:


> Because you won't be hungry on this diet, not done this exact one but normally cut on less than 50 grams of carbs. Tried iifym admittedly with more junk than 20% and I was absolutely starving hungry, if I have a biscuit or whatever iifym preaches then I want another 5. Think its just psychological, some find it easier to tell themselves they can only eat certain foods and stick to it. Same as lot of people lose weight on stuff like weight watchers despite it basically being a gimmick


I'm pretty sure you will be hungry lol


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> Thats possibly the dumbest thing I ever read on this forum, you are getting better results and its because you are doing it wrong?????


No, I said that's why he is getting better results doing this diet over iifym and not the same.

How can he not get the same results if he is easting exactly the same calories/macros either way (or better, as he will know for sure he is in his desired deficit). If this diet works for him then great, I said he must of been doing iifym wrong, not he IS doing it all wrong.

This meme sums you up, very well...


----------



## FelonE1

I'd get fvcking ripped on that diet


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> No, I said that's why he is getting better results doing this diet over iifym and not the same.
> 
> *How can he not get the same results if he is easting exactly the same calories/macros either way (or better, as he will know for sure he is in his desired deficit).* If this diet works for him then great, I said he must of been doing iifym wrong, not he IS doing it all wrong.
> 
> This meme sums you up, very well...
> 
> View attachment 173822


Because if you tried the zero carb approach you would find out that its not just about calorie restriction, you lose fat faster when glycogen stores are depleted, you IIFMM approach constantly tops up your glycogen stores halting fat burning.

I am not going to bother any more, you are clearly set in eating like a fuxking housewife so lose weight at the same rate as one.


----------



## Verno

Jalex said:


> OK. Put in simple terms.
> 
> Why would someone want to eat chicken and broccoli, when they could get the exact (if not better, referring to me sub-par comment) same results eating varied foods provided macros/micros are exactly the same.
> 
> Why do I have to try a diet to say it's sub-par.
> 
> We know how calories work, we know the fundamentals of weight gain/loss, how will this diet with limited foods give you better results than having the exact same calories etc with varied foods (which can be achieved by tracking etc).
> 
> Are you disupting the known facts about calories, human biology, nutrition etc?
> 
> If you say this is getting the best results, than that is not down to iut being better, but human error. You weren't tracking correctly, you had your macro split wrong, your total calorie amount wrong (granted, these need time to find out what's optimal for you).
> 
> Agreed last point, hopefully people read both sides on the information (where credible info is actually given) and debate and thereafter decide for themselves what to do.
> 
> Because at the end of the day...


Sorry on my phone so can't quote properly.

Why try the diet?

How could you possibly give an informed opinion on something without trying it first? Just because something looks good/or bad on paper doesn't necessarily mean it works well in practice! You would understand this if you'd done a few yourself to then be able to draw your own conclusion.

Re my human error, I have been In this game long enough now to know and understand how to track calories and work out macro splits. If I was a different person such an ignorant, single minded and off the cuff remark could be quite offensive! Is there any level you won't stoop to to try to discredit someone?

Jalex you are still missing the point and I feel your just too shortsighted to "get it" It's not about which diet is best, it's about which is best for "you"!

Would it really be so hard for you just to concede that someone has better results with a diet that you don't advocate because it suits them better?


----------



## banzi

FelonE said:


> I'd get fvcking ripped on that diet


In about 4 weeks mate.


----------



## FelonE1

banzi said:


> In about 4 weeks mate.


I reckon yeah. My cutting diet consists of low fat greek yoghurt,tuna,veg and a shake or two and that leans me out quick.


----------



## zyphy

banzi said:


> Because if you tried the zero carb approach you would find out that its not just about calorie restriction, you lose fat faster when glycogen stores are depleted, you IIFMM approach constantly tops up your glycogen stores halting fat burning.
> 
> I am not going to bother any more, you are clearly set in eating like a fuxking housewife so lose weight at the same rate as one.


Lol exactly.. Carbs are the primary source of energy... Take that away and you'll see an increase in the rate of fat loss (provided you're in a caloric deficit ofc)


----------



## Ultrasonic

banzi said:


> you IIFMM approach constantly tops up your glycogen stores halting fat burning.


A diet can be keto AND IIFYM - it depends what the macro targets are...


----------



## zyphy

FelonE said:


> I reckon yeah. My cutting diet consists of low fat greek yoghurt,tuna,veg and a shake or two and that leans me out quick.


Almost fits the description of the op lol


----------



## zyphy

Ultrasonic said:


> A diet can be keto AND IIFYM - it depends what the macro targets are...


I wouldn't say his style of iifym is what it's meant to be used as lol


----------



## FelonE1

zyphy said:


> Almost fits the description of the op lol


Similar. That's why I cut so quick lol


----------



## zyphy

TommyBananas said:


> Worst diet ever, for people who want to live like zombies and not enjoy themselves.
> 
> Only circumstance I'd ever recommend it is someone stepping on a stage, which 80% of the people in this forum don't and won't ever do and recommending this to the average Joe is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
> 
> This is also proven to cause eating disorders.
> 
> I AM OUT, TAG ME AS MUCH AS YOU WANT, BYE!!


Cya


----------



## zyphy

FelonE said:


> Similar. That's why I cut so quick lol


Can't argue against results, too many people stuck in studies but don't fit the bill lol


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> Because if you tried the zero carb approach you would find out that its not just about calorie restriction, you lose fat faster when glycogen stores are depleted, you IIFMM approach constantly tops up your glycogen stores halting fat burning.
> 
> I am not going to bother any more, you are clearly set in eating like a fuxking housewife so lose weight at the same rate as one.




Anyhow, I am making fine, if not great progress that I am happy with. Keep on the journal and see for yourself.



Verno said:


> Sorry on my phone so can't quote properly.
> 
> Why try the diet?
> 
> How could you possibly give an informed opinion on something without trying it first? Just because something looks good/or bad on paper doesn't necessarily mean it works well in practice! You would understand this if you'd done a few yourself to then be able to draw your own conclusion.
> 
> Re my human error, I have been In this game long enough now to know and understand how to track calories and work out macro splits. If I was a different person such an ignorant, single minded and off the cuff remark could be quite offensive! Is there any level you won't stoop to to try to discredit someone?
> 
> *Jalex you are still missing the point and I feel your just too shortsighted to "get it" It's not about which diet is best, it's about which is best for "you"!*
> 
> *
> Would it really be so hard for you just to concede that someone has better results with a diet that you don't advocate because it suits them better?*


Np mate. Replying on a phone is a nightmare :lol: , anyways...

Not trying to discredit you. In most cases that's why flexible dieting doesn't work. People do not understand or do not track correctly. If done properly, there is no posisble way it can be sub-par to any othe diet because it can REPLICATE any other diet. The point is you can vary your food intake.

My last post said to you if it works then its better for you and crack on. Man what are you talking about? I've said about 5 times in this thread that in circumstances this diet could/will be better for someone.

You have selective reading, clearly.

Does Alan Aragon have any experience competing, body-building, power-lifting, Olympic lifting, trying every diet. No. Yet he is one of the most accomplished, respected and complete persons in this fvcked up industry.

Take from his website:

lan Aragon has over 20 years of success in the fitness field, and is one of the most influential figures in the modern movement towards evidence-based information. He is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, National Academy of Sports Medicine, and National Strength & Conditioning Association. Alan's work has been published in the popular media as well as the peer-reviewed scientific literature, including the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, and Nutrition Reviews. He lectures at national and international conferences, and maintains a private practice designing programs for recreational, Olympic, and professional athletes, including the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Alan is the nutrition advisor of Men's Health magazine.


----------



## Ultrasonic

zyphy said:


> I wouldn't say his style of iifym is what it's meant to be used as lol


Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, were you referring to Jalex, or did you mean 'this' rather than 'his'?


----------



## Jalex

zyphy said:


> I wouldn't say his style of iifym is what it's meant to be used as lol


By his are you referring to me?

I use it correctly. Check my log, chicken, lean protein, eat my veg (although I do not always add it as I cba, just remember it) and fit about 300-500 cals worth of whatever I want into my diet, within my macros and calories

That is *flexible* dieting. I never recommend eating fast food only or a diet full of not nutritional junk

I swear 80% of people only read what they wanna read and have selective reading.


----------



## zyphy

Ultrasonic said:


> Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, were you referring to Jalex, or did you mean 'this' rather than 'his'?


You got the hint


----------



## Ultrasonic

zyphy said:


> You got the hint


Not sure I did? If the LOL was directed at me you are misunderstanding proper IIFYM.


----------



## FelonE1

zyphy said:


> Can't argue against results, too many people stuck in studies but don't fit the bill lol


Exactly mate. Too many people talking about stuff they've never done,just read about


----------



## zyphy

Jalex said:


> By his are you referring to me?
> 
> I use it correctly. Check my log, chicken, lean protein, eat my veg (although I do not always add it as I cba, just remember it) and fit about 300-500 cals worth of whatever I want into my diet, within my macros and calories
> 
> That is *flexible* dieting. I never recommend eating fast food only.
> 
> I swear 80% of people only read what they wanna read and have selective reading.


Here are 2 claims commonly posted on here:

1) you can get your cals from any food source provides it fits your macros

2) you can add in extra foods into your food for the day provided you hit your micro's and protein goals etc

Now the 2 are very different in reality yet they're both seemingly being marketed as two acceptable methods of dieting. The former is absolutely vague and total sh1t, the second is fine. So which are you supporting here?


----------



## zyphy

Ultrasonic said:


> Not sure I did? If the LOL was directed at me you are misunderstanding proper IIFYM.


Do you find it hard to deduce information? How was I directing that comment to you 'LOL'?


----------



## Ultrasonic

zyphy said:


> Do you find it hard to deduce information? How was I directing that comment to you 'LOL'?


You mean your post where you quoted me ???


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

LMAO


----------



## zyphy

Ultrasonic said:


> You mean your post where you quoted me ???


How can I be referring to you if I said 'his', fcking hell lol


----------



## Jalex

zyphy said:


> Here are 2 claims commonly posted on here:
> 
> 1) you can get your cals from any food source provides it fits your macros
> 
> 2) you can add in extra foods into your food for the day provided you hit your micro's and protein goals etc
> 
> Now the 2 are very different in reality yet they're both seemingly being marketed as two acceptable methods of dieting. The former is absolutely vague and total sh1t, the second is fine. So which are you supporting here?


I advocate number two, obviously.

I never advocate filling a diet with junk to hit your macros. Micro-nutrients, Fibre etc all come into play. Also the question of health which I also advocate working towards.

p.s. although fundamentally chit and not clear, it is possible to make your gains on number 1, but eventually micro nutrient deficiency etc will come into play and most possibly adversely effect results.

This is hwere the 80/20 comes in. 80% whole nutritious foods will sufficiently hit your micros fibre etc and the other 20% can be used to enjoy the amazing variety of food this world has to offer. Be it rare escargot, steak, or a pop tart.


----------



## FelonE1

zyphy said:


> How can I be referring to you if I said 'his', fcking hell lol


Are you referring to me?


----------



## Ultrasonic

zyphy said:


> How can I be referring to you if I said 'his', fcking hell lol


I wasn't sure you'd meant 'his' which is way I asked to try to avoid confusion :wink: . If you'd just said Jalex's all would have been clear.


----------



## zyphy

FelonE said:


> Are you referring to me?


Yeah bro, all this confusion is your fault ??


----------



## FelonE1

zyphy said:


> Yeah bro, all this confusion is your fault ??


I wasn't referring to you


----------



## Verno

FelonE said:


> Exactly mate. Too many people talking about stuff they've never done,just read about


lol I soooo couldn't agree more mate!

Give it a go bud, you'll look like a piece of old oak at the end. If you don't .....meh try something else


----------



## zyphy

FelonE said:


> I wasn't referring to you


??


----------



## FelonE1

Verno said:


> lol I soooo couldn't agree more mate!
> 
> Give it a go bud, you'll look like a piece of old oak at the end. If you don't .....meh try something else


Gonna cut from 1st Jan so I will mate. 8%bf here I come lol


----------



## Verno

Jalex said:


> View attachment 173825
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I am making fine, if not great progress that I am happy with. Keep on the journal and see for yourself.
> 
> Np mate. Replying on a phone is a nightmare :lol: , anyways...
> 
> Not trying to discredit you. In most cases that's why flexible dieting doesn't work. People do not understand or do not track correctly. If done properly, there is no posisble way it can be sub-par to any othe diet because it can REPLICATE any other diet. The point is you can vary your food intake.
> 
> My last post said to you if it works then its better for you and crack on. Man what are you talking about? I've said about 5 times in this thread that in circumstances this diet could/will be better for someone.
> 
> You have selective reading, clearly.
> 
> Does Alan Aragon have any experience competing, body-building, power-lifting, Olympic lifting, trying every diet. No. Yet he is one of the most accomplished, respected and complete persons in this fvcked up industry.
> 
> Take from his website:
> 
> lan Aragon has over 20 years of success in the fitness field, and is one of the most influential figures in the modern movement towards evidence-based information. He is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, National Academy of Sports Medicine, and National Strength & Conditioning Association. Alan's work has been published in the popular media as well as the peer-reviewed scientific literature, including the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, and Nutrition Reviews. He lectures at national and international conferences, and maintains a private practice designing programs for recreational, Olympic, and professional athletes, including the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Alan is the nutrition advisor of Men's Health magazine.


Lol I give up!

Keep fighting the good fight mate, maybe look up the definitions of context and condescension when you get chance though


----------



## Jalex

Verno said:


> Lol I give up!
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight mate, maybe look up the definitions of context and condescension when you get chance though


Sorry you feel that way Verno - but i do feel that it's because you are taking that view/offence of your own accord, not me actually being like that.


----------



## FelonE1

zyphy said:


> ??


Lol confused?


----------



## Verno

Jalex said:


> Sorry you feel that way Verno - but i do feel that it's because you are taking that view/offence of your own accord, not me actually being like that.


It would be easy to take offence mate but honestly I've not. It's just one of those things which will never be resolved on an Internet forum Jalex. Maybe I could look up context again as well mate  .

Either way I'm sure we can both agree like you said if it works for you then crack on.


----------



## Jalex

Verno said:


> It would be easy to take offence mate but honestly I've not. It's just one of those things which will never be resolved on an Internet forum Jalex. Maybe I could look up context again as well mate  .
> 
> Either way I'm sure we can both agree like you said if it works for you then crack on.


Defo, that's the main reason for a forum right, difference of opinions (and experiences) for people to read and make their own decisions  :lol:


----------



## Verno

FelonE said:


> Gonna cut from 1st Jan so I will mate. 8%bf here I come lol


There'd be no fcuking point cooking you then!

Don't mix those two words up eh


----------



## G-man99

FelonE said:


> Lol confused?


So, who are they referring too???


----------



## FelonE1

Verno said:


> There'd be no fcuking point cooking you then!
> 
> Don't mix those two words up eh


Hopefully I'll have some meat on me mate,it'll be lean though lol

Cooking or fvcking me.......both will involve you eating my meat


----------



## FelonE1

G-man99 said:


> So, who are they referring too???


I'm referring to you


----------



## G-man99

FelonE said:


> I'm referring to you


Thank god for that, was all of a fluster wondering who referred to who and which person was referring to the other!

At least it's all cleared up now :thumb:


----------



## FelonE1

G-man99 said:


> Thank god for that, was all of a fluster wondering who referred to who and which person was referring to the other!
> 
> At least it's all cleared up now :thumb:


Lol just took some Ibuprofen


----------



## zyphy

FelonE said:


> Lol confused?


lol was an emoji, not sure why it popped up as ??


----------



## FelonE1

zyphy said:


> lol was an emoji, not sure why it popped up as ??


Mine does on my phone


----------



## Dark sim

Jalex said:


> View attachment 173818
> 
> 
> OK. Put in simple terms.
> 
> Why would someone want to eat chicken and broccoli, when they could get the exact (if not better, referring to me sub-par comment) same results eating varied foods provided macros/micros are exactly the same.
> 
> Why do I have to try a diet to say it's sub-par.
> 
> We know how calories work, we know the fundamentals of weight gain/loss, how will this diet with limited foods give you better results than having the exact same calories etc with varied foods (which can be achieved by tracking etc).
> 
> Are you disupting the known facts about calories, human biology, nutrition etc?
> 
> If you say this is getting the best results, than that is not down to iut being better, but human error. You weren't tracking correctly, you had your macro split wrong, your total calorie amount wrong (granted, these need time to find out what's optimal for you).
> 
> Agreed last point, hopefully people read both sides on the information (where credible info is actually given) and debate and thereafter decide for themselves what to do.
> 
> Because at the end of the day...
> 
> View attachment 173819


You keep saying sub par. People get on stage with this type of diet, time and time again. Don't see many getting on stage using IIFYM and they are certainly not better results.


----------



## _Oscar_

2004mark said:


> That's quite high fat chicken breast :confused1:
> 
> I'd check that out, you could be under eating


Thanks for pointing this out bro. Having now checked some other online sources it seems Fitday is way off being accurate. Having now adjusted the reduction in fat allows me to eat more protein anyway. Win/Win. :thumbup1:


----------



## Jalex

Dark sim said:


> You keep saying sub par. People get on stage with this type of diet, time and time again. Don't see many getting on stage using IIFYM and they are certainly not better results.


So you're view is that you get the same or better results now knowing how many calories your body is consuming (which as already stated 100000 times if the most important factor in weight gain/loss) against accurately knowing how many you are consuming?


----------



## Dark sim

Jalex said:


> So you're view is that you get the same or better results now knowing how many calories your body is consuming (which as already stated 100000 times if the most important factor in weight gain/loss) against accurately knowing how many you are consuming?


I am saying this diet works, if followed correctly.

There are coaches out there that do not track macros, but they get people on stage, they get people in to finals.


----------



## Dark sim

_Oscar_ said:


> Thanks for pointing this out bro. Having now checked some other online sources it seems Fitday is way off being accurate. Having now adjusted the reduction in fat allows me to eat more protein anyway. Win/Win. :thumbup1:


So you are not actually following the diet on page 1


----------



## Jalex

Dark sim said:


> I am saying this diet works, if followed correctly.
> 
> There are coaches out there that do not track macros, but they get people on stage, they get people in to finals.


I have never said this diet doesn't work? :confused1:


----------



## Dark sim

Jalex said:


> I have never said this diet doesn't work? :confused1:


This diet isn't sub par then


----------



## Jalex

Dark sim said:


> This diet isn't sub par then


Ok mate. I'm just going to stop posting about all this now (in general). Feels like a witch hunt.

Lets just let people trial and error and do whatever the fvck they wanna do.


----------



## _Oscar_

Dark sim said:


> So you are not actually following the diet on page 1


I only just read the post for the first time today.

When I compared it to the diet I've been following for the last six weeks it was 'broadly' in line with it.

I'm not suggesting for a minute I've been doing the diet, I haven't, but what I was asking with my post a few pages back was whether or not I was inflicting undue punishment on myself by starving myself counting calories on my current diet when according to the diet in this thread I could in fact be eating as much chicken breast or turkey mince as I like.

I'm going to adjust my diet for the next six weeks starting today to be in line with the diet in this thread i.e. fats below 40g, carbs from spinach, broccoli, onions and green peppers, protein from whey, chicken breast and turkey mince only. It's not much different from what I'm already doing except I'll have to watch the fats a bit closer and increase my protein intake a bit.

Going by the original thread on Get Big the guy who wrote this diet advocates one to two carb up days per week with 200-300g carbs. If going for two days then they should be spread apart, not consecutive days. I'll probably just go with one carb up which is what I usually do anyway.


----------



## 31205

Dunno what there is to argue about. Banzi posted a diet. The diet works if you do exactly as it says.


----------



## Dark sim

sen said:


> Dunno what there is to argue about. Banzi posted a diet. The diet works if you do exactly as it says.


It is the iifym crew, can't let it be. I actually use iifym correctly, but I also acknowledge the diet posted works, have used it myself, when I was way behind in my first prep.


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> View attachment 173825
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I am making fine, if not great progress that I am happy with. Keep on the journal and see for yourself.
> 
> Np mate. Replying on a phone is a nightmare :lol: , anyways...
> 
> Not trying to discredit you. In most cases that's why flexible dieting doesn't work. People do not understand or do not track correctly. If done properly, there is no posisble way it can be sub-par to any othe diet because it can REPLICATE any other diet. The point is you can vary your food intake.
> 
> My last post said to you if it works then its better for you and crack on. Man what are you talking about? I've said about 5 times in this thread that in circumstances this diet could/will be better for someone.
> 
> You have selective reading, clearly.
> 
> Does Alan Aragon have any experience competing, body-building, power-lifting, Olympic lifting, trying every diet. No. Yet he is one of the most accomplished, respected and complete persons in this fvcked up industry.
> 
> Take from his website:
> 
> *lan Aragon has over 20 years of success in the fitness field, and is one of the most influential figures in the modern movement towards evidence-based information. He is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, National Academy of Sports Medicine, and National Strength & Conditioning Association. Alan's work has been published in the popular media as well as the peer-reviewed scientific literature, including the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, and Nutrition Reviews. He lectures at national and international conferences, and maintains a private practice designing programs for recreational, Olympic, and professional athletes, including the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Alan is the nutrition advisor of Men's Health magazine*.


amazing all that knowledge, yet if you follow the diet in this thread you can get in the same shape as Alan Aragon can get you and likely charge you £2,000 for the privilege.


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> amazing all that knowledge, yet if you follow the diet in this thread you can get in the same shape as Alan Aragon can get you and likely charge you £2,000 for the privilege.


but I would be eating the most horrible, bland foods, would not be able to enjoy life, squeeze lunch in with friends/colleagues, go for a meal with the girlfriend, have a beer with the pal, have a nice slice of that bday cake someone brings in. The restrictions are endless.

Instead I would be at home wolfing down 100's of grams of brocoli and chicken breast from a tupperware box, fapping with my tears as lube.#

Anyhow, idc, do as you please


----------



## Beans

I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that low/no carb diets are the simplest, most effective way to get down to low body fat percentages? How wrong I was.


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> but I would be eating the most horrible, bland foods, would not be able to enjoy life,* squeeze lunch in with friends/colleagues, go for a meal with the girlfriend,* have a beer with the pal, have a nice slice of that bday cake someone brings in. The restrictions are endless.
> 
> Instead I would be at home wolfing down 100's of grams of brocoli and chicken breast from a tupperware box, fapping with my tears as lube.#
> 
> Anyhow, idc, do as you please


Most restaurants I go to serve steak/chicken and an assortment of vegetables.


----------



## banzi

Ultrasonic said:


> It's definitely easier, but you can't argue it's faster, that will depend on what is eaten for the two diets being compared. You could eat an identical diet and count everything...


OK.


----------



## Jalex

banzi said:


> Most restaurants I go to serve steak/chicken and an assortment of vegetables.


Yeah, I do not find them my favourite foods.

Pizza, pasta, indian and chinese are my choice.

"Oh sorry guys, I know this Italian dinner has been arranged for 6 months but I'm cutting and can only eat veg and chicken, guess I'll have to see you all next year!

Or should I let my clients and colleagues know that we can only go to steakhouses that can provide me with my requirements.


----------



## Ultrasonic

_Oscar_ said:


> I'm going to adjust my diet for the next six weeks starting today to be in line with the diet in this thread i.e. fats below 40g...


Bear in mind the 'healthy fats' mentioned in the OP are things like flax oil and fish oil supplements, not the fats in your protein sources. Or at least that's my reading of it?


----------



## 31205

Jalex said:


> Yeah, I do not find them my favourite foods.
> 
> Pizza, pasta, indian and chinese are my choice.
> 
> "Oh sorry guys, I know this Italian dinner has been arranged for 6 months but I'm cutting and can only eat veg and chicken, guess I'll have to see you all next year!
> 
> Or should I let my clients and colleagues know that we can only go to steakhouses that can provide me with my requirements.


Is this diet not to get into contest shape?

I'm sure if you're trying to get I to contest shape, you could perhaps go for a beer etc after the contest you're getting in shape for? Not gonna kill you, waiting 12 weeks or whatever.


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## _Oscar_

Ultrasonic said:


> Bear in mind the 'healthy fats' mentioned in the OP are things like flax oil and fish oil supplements, not the fats in your protein sources. Or at least that's my reading of it?


I'm going to register on Get Big to get him to clarify a few points like this one.


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## Ultrasonic

_Oscar_ said:


> I'm going to register on Get Big to get him to clarify a few points like this one.


Please post back with any info you gain.

I'm pretty sure I'm right though. A major point is you don't need to be tracking macros, which if you start counting fat in chicken you will be. Just adding up a small amount of supplementary oil is far simpler.


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## 31205

TommyBananas said:


> Why wait when ya don't have to? ;-)


Why do people argue about a diet they're not being forced to follow? Not saying you are but some are. If people can't/don't want to eat chicken and green veg all day, they don't have to.


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## The-Real-Deal

TommyBananas said:


> What is important to me? Knowledge and improving at what I do. I am mediocre at deadlift and squats so what? *I am a great bencher. *Does that mean I cant have knowledge or know how to do something? It doesnt and you know that too.
> 
> Thanks for the un-needed digs though  off to train!


A very bold statement. What you won?......!!! Your just some lil cvnt who juices. 



babyarm said:


> Over time he does grow on you lol


Like athletes foot 



Beans said:


> I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that low/no carb diets are the simplest, most effective way to get down to low body fat percentages? How wrong I was.


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm off for a protein shake :laugh: :beer:


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## banzi

Jalex said:


> Yeah, I do not find them my favourite foods.
> 
> *Pizza, pasta, indian and chinese are my choice.*
> 
> "Oh sorry guys, I know this Italian dinner has been arranged for 6 months but I'm cutting and can only eat veg and chicken, guess I'll have to see you all next year!
> 
> Or should I let my clients and colleagues know that we can only go to steakhouses that can provide me with my requirements.


I know I have seen your photos.


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## Jalex

banzi said:


> I know I have seen your photos.


Yeah, please tell me what's wrong with them.

Didn't know you can instantly get lean overnight? Since I decided to diet, I have made great progress (being the progress I was intending to make and am very happy with)

So please, either tell me what my photos have to do with anything, or tell me how I can sudden drop 10% bodyfat overnight (sure you've got an answer right?)

You're so quick to jump on people's personal progress to divert the situition from your inability to understand basic things. You're clever, but not half as clever as you think you are. Your ego blinds you.


----------



## banzi

Jalex said:


> Yeah, please tell me what's wrong with them.
> 
> Didn't know you can instantly get lean overnight? Since I decided to diet, I have made great progress (being the progress I was intending to make and am very happy with)
> 
> So please, either tell me what my photos have to do with anything, or tell me how I can sudden drop 10% bodyfat overnight (sure you've got an answer right?)
> 
> You're so quick to jump on people's personal progress to divert the situition from your inability to understand basic things. You're clever, but not half as clever as you think you are. Your ego blinds you.




and if you had used my diet from the start of your log you would have been ripped by now.

Keep eating the cakes fatty.


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## Jalex

banzi said:


> View attachment 173863
> 
> 
> and if you had used my diet from the start of your log you would have been ripped by now.
> 
> Keep eating the cakes fatty.


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## zak007

No-one thought of setting up a tommybananas v banzi - The daily iifym v eating clean thread :lol:


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## FelonE1

zak007 said:


> No-one thought of setting up a tommybananas v banzi - The daily iifym v eating clean thread


No,we're sick of it now.


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## Frandeman

More entertaining than BBC lol


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## PHMG

Frandeman said:


> More entertaining than BBC lol


You find big black cock entertaining?


----------



## Frandeman

PHMG said:


> You find big black cock entertaining?


Yea but probably no as much as your Mrs


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## Harry Axe Wound

PHMG said:


> You find big black cock entertaining?


You took the big black cock right outta my mouth


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## walks

this is exactly the same diet that the DP diet becomes in the last few weeks to get those last few pounds off. its not as difficult as people think if only doing it for a few weeks, 12 weeks though would be tough. The main point however is in the very 1st post "If you are on HRT or juice then listen up". i wouldnt even think about attempting it off any type of gear. Serious muscle loss is certian


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## Rcooper

Interesting diet.


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## MPWFitness

I won't get into the fire fight, but all I can say is that it's weird that this diet is pretty much the exact diet I eat each day for contest prep with good success. It's uncanny as it mirrors my exact approach basically; If I am hungry I have a bowl of greens as a snack, I run clen/t3/eca, I don't have any protein shakes (have BCAAs x3 a day instead)

Basically five meals of lean protein with a large serving of greens, a fattier protein source pre workout (at the moment boiled eggs, but sometimes steak or salmon). Then as I get closer I take out the daily fattier option and as it as and when as a treat (so for the last 6 weeks I will only have the lean options such as chicken breast/turkey/white fish/tuna etc then once a week have steak and sweet potato).

I did it for 5 weeks last show only as that's all I had to get ready and came in the best condition ever (and lost 12kg!). As it was 5 weeks and I had to make weight I ditched any of the 'one a day' fattier options. Personally I have found keto/zero carb works for me, with a weekly bit of carbs (I literally mean a sweet potato on a Saturday night to go with my steak). I am now 2 weeks into my latest prep with ten weeks to go and this is my plan for the rest of the prep.

It mirrors Frank Zane's approach and the goldern era lot - ultra low carb, with a weekly carb up, dependant on your progress.

I mean it's contest prep, it's hard and it you need to be strong, I am just lucky that I never crave variety; if I am hungry, I eat, whether I eat the same thing yesterday or even earlier in the day doesn't bother me, it's just fuel to get me contest ready. Not saying it's the best way, or certainly not the only way, but it fits me and delivers for me. It does for the people I help prep too.,


----------



## TheScam

banzi said:


> I have taken this from another website, the author is a poster over on Getbig called Onetimehard.
> 
> For your info


Can I ask why it says "if you are on HRT or juice listen up" - this suggests to me this wouldn't work if you are natty?

I appreciate if you juicing it will be easier to keep or even build muscle while cutting, but if natural and protein levels are high you could still use this approach no?

If not, what would you suggest for someone natty? Other than "get on the juice" :laugh:


----------



## Ultrasonic

TheScam said:


> Can I ask why it says "if you are on HRT or juice listen up" - this suggests to me this wouldn't work if you are natty?
> 
> I appreciate if you juicing it will be easier to keep or even build muscle while cutting, but if natural and protein levels are high you could still use this approach no?


The two main concerns if natty would be if fat levels ended up so low they adversely affected hormone levels, and if calories were too low that you would lose weight too fast (leading to more muscle loss).


----------



## TheScam

Ultrasonic said:


> The two main concerns if natty would be if fat levels ended up so low they adversely affected hormone levels, and if calories were too low that you would lose weight too fast (leading to more muscle loss).


Cool thanks. So although I know the idea of this "diet" is that you dont need to be tracking calories etc, if you combined this with tracking your calories to ensure you didnt eat too low and consumed enough fat then it would be alright I guess?


----------



## MrSilver

Is there any point in doing this whilst at low 20% BF? Or wait until dropped into teens?


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## TheScam

MrSilver said:


> Is there any point in doing this whilst at low 20% BF? Or wait until dropped into teens?


You could do it now, but it wouldn't be totally necessary. At 20% a basic calorie deficit will see you shift weight - this would obviously work for that too, but it does say 12 weeks, depending on actual weight and goals you may need longer than that?


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## MrSilver

TheScam said:


> You could do it now, but it wouldn't be totally necessary. At 20% a basic calorie deficit will see you shift weight - this would obviously work for that too, but it does say 12 weeks, depending on actual weight and goals you may need longer than that?


So is this basically a keto diet plan more or less? Or is it just a high protein low fat & no carb diet?

I want to try something new, keto / low carb / no carb.

And as I'm on 600mg test E a week for next 10 weeks would be good timing.


----------



## Ultrasonic

MrSilver said:


> So is this basically a keto diet plan more or less? Or is it just a high protein low fat & no carb diet?


Not quite sure what you're asking, since a zero carb diet is a keto diet, although this diet is low carb rather than zero carb due to the vegetables.

As I understand it the major point of this diet is that it's a way of structuring a low carb and likely very low calorie diet without the need to count anything. The likes of @banzi and @DarkSim know far more about it though since they've used this sort of approach.


----------



## MrSilver

Ultrasonic said:


> Not quite sure what you're asking, since a zero carb diet is a keto diet, although this diet is low carb rather than zero carb due to the vegetables.
> 
> As I understand it the major point of this diet is that it's a way of structuring a low carb and likely very low calorie diet without the need to count anything. The likes of @banzi one @DaRkSim know far more about it though since they've used this sort of approach.


I thought ketogenic diet was high protein, high fat, no/very low carb?

This says high protein, low fat, no/low carb?

The main difference being this says:



> 20-40 grams of healthy fats


Thought on ketogenic you'd be aiming for more around 80g-150g fat a day?


----------



## Ultrasonic

MrSilver said:


> I thought ketogenic diet was high protein, high fat, no/very low carb?
> 
> This says high protein, low fat, no/low carb?
> 
> The main difference being this says:
> 
> Thought on ketogenic you'd be aiming for more around 80g-150g fat a day?


Well I thought if carbs were extremely low you ended up in ketosis either way, but I may be wrong? I understand what you mean though.


----------



## RexEverthing

Apologies for a bump on an old thread - anyone natural tried this diet? Would you just drop muscle as well as fat?


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## Ultrasonic

RexEverthing said:


> Apologies for a bump on an old thread - anyone natural tried this diet? Would you just drop muscle as well as fat?


No, but I wouldn't because as you suggest it would very likely lead to too much muscle loss.


----------



## xjx

Crap, I was out the forum for a year or two and definitely missed this thread.

I'd like to bump her back up


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## salted-bastrd

I just started this. Let's see how it goes.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

salted-bastrd said:


> I just started this. Let's see how it goes.


 Ripped AF yet bro?


----------



## zeevolution

salted-bastrd said:


> I just started this. Let's see how it goes.


 how u going



FuqOutDaWhey said:


> Ripped AF yet bro?


 yeah how he go


----------



## superdrol

salted-bastrd said:


> I just started this. Let's see how it goes.


 Ya dead??


----------



## RexEverthing

Great thread :lol:


----------



## anna1

RexEverthing said:


> Great thread :lol:


 Actual it is '

thanks for bringing that up

I will give it a try at some point

I love eca but I haven't noticed it's effects as described here so I just might

x


----------



## RexEverthing

anna1 said:


> Actual it is '
> 
> thanks for bringing that up
> 
> I will give it a try at some point
> 
> I love eca but I haven't noticed it's effects as described here so I just might
> 
> x


 I enjoyed the thread. Never tried that diet, sounds hellish and as a natural I think it would - quite frankly - fvck me


----------



## anna1

RexEverthing said:


> I enjoyed the thread. Never tried that diet, sounds hellish and as a natural I think it would - quite frankly - fvck me


 Maybe the first week to 10 days will be incredibly challenging but after that one gets used to anything

will give it a go September cause I know I'll come back looking like a pig 

x


----------



## CG88

anna1 said:


> Maybe the first week to 10 days will be incredibly challenging but after that one gets used to anything
> 
> will give it a go September cause I know I'll come back looking like a pig
> 
> x


 Have considered it previously, never bothered to try it. TBH when i run no carb/keto its very similar only higher fat from cheeses etc

May look into it again though


----------



## anna1

CG88 said:


> Have considered it previously, never bothered to try it. TBH when i run no carb/keto its very similar only higher fat from cheeses etc
> 
> May look into it again though


 It should work rather well if you can sustain for up to 4-6 weeks after that it's just unhealthy unless one wants to compete

x


----------



## CG88

anna1 said:


> It should work rather well if you can sustain for up to 4-6 weeks after that it's just unhealthy unless one wants to complete
> 
> x


 Yep for sure. If i do give it a go will log it


----------



## simonboyle

How would the ECa know how many carbs you'd had? And what about timing of the carbs?

What if you had all your carbs after your training ? After you'd used the ECa?

But to the low carb approach, I'd agree, this would get you stage ready. It's all about consistency. And dedication.

Most would fail with this diet.


----------



## anna1

simonboyle said:


> How would the ECa know how many carbs you'd had? And what about timing of the carbs?
> 
> What if you had all your carbs after your training ? After you'd used the ECa?
> 
> But to the low carb approach, I'd agree, this would get you stage ready. It's all about consistency. And dedication.
> 
> Most would fail with this diet.


 Maybe he just means that you'd really feel the impact from the ECA on low carbs as one tends to feel weaker those days ( I know I do )

I will try it to see if it does make a difference .

can't fluctuate the dosage though . Too much gives me vertigo

x


----------



## 66983

simonboyle said:


> Most would fail with this diet.


 ^This.


----------



## Ultrasonic

RexEverthing said:


> I enjoyed the thread. Never tried that diet, sounds hellish and as a natural I think it would - quite frankly - fvck me


 I'm pretty sure Banzi would have advised against this diet natty.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm pretty sure Banzi would have advised against this diet natty.


 He says right at the start... "if you are on HRT, listen up.."

Bottom line is this would obviously work, but also be fu**ing miserable. Most people don't have 1/100th of the willpower required to see it through.


----------



## Ultrasonic

arbffgadm100 said:


> He says right at the start... "if you are on HRT, listen up.."
> 
> Bottom line is this would obviously work, but also be fu**ing miserable. Most people don't have 1/100th of the willpower required to see it through.


 It would be a bad idea natty due to muscle loss.


----------



## AestheticManlet

anna1 said:


> Maybe the first week to 10 days will be incredibly challenging but after that one gets used to anything
> 
> will give it a go September cause I know I'll come back looking like a pig
> 
> x


 You will need gear if you're going to follow that diet.

No natty is getting shredded on that diet especially without losing significant lean mass.


----------



## anna1

AestheticManlet said:


> You will need gear if you're going to follow that diet.
> 
> No natty is getting shredded on that diet especially without losing significant lean mass.


 Yeah , I realize that

it's mentioned in OP as well I think

but I plan to get buffed this year 

x


----------



## AestheticManlet

anna1 said:


> Yeah , I realize that
> 
> it's mentioned in OP as well I think
> 
> but I plan to get buffed this year
> 
> x


 In for clit gains progress pics x


----------



## dtlv

AestheticManlet said:


> You will need gear if you're going to follow that diet.
> 
> No natty is getting shredded on that diet especially without losing significant lean mass.


 I agree. The cut would work, but IMO there are easier ways to achieve a better result - especially if Natty.


----------



## Dark sim

Just for clarification, there are types of keto, standard keto, where fat is main source of energy. Then there is cyclical keto, where protein is a bigger consideration. Either way, they both avoid carbs.


----------

