# Do you use milk thistle on cycle?



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

*Do you use milk thistle on cycle?*​
Yes 2623.85%No 7366.97%Only on orals109.17%


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Alot of the time milk thistle gets recommended on here but does it actually do anything? Also seen a fair few people say that they dont bother with it so just wondering wether i should use it for my cycle?


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2012)

waste of time tbh.just drink 5litres of natures finest a day.no tablet will beat that.


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

Never have. I barely use anything on cycle.

- - - Updated - - -

Always tank about 5 litres of water a day anyway lol.


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## k3z (Oct 17, 2007)

Always used to back when it was common bro science.

Never made an ounce of difference and now i never bother, its money which could be spend on real meds instead


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

Don't bother


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Waste of cash imo a healthy live handles orals fine with out the need for sups to protect it imo


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## AK-26 (May 29, 2011)

No as its a load of bullsh*t, If you really want to protect your liver you'd stay away from booze and drink plenty of water.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Milk thistle is a joke anyway, but this stuff treats what steroids do to the liver, (oral steroid induced cholestasis): TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid).

Super long read but it is totally worth it.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?505283-The-ultimate-LIVER-thread-and-info-on-orals-and-ORAL-TOXICITY!!#.UFyVSUI7vTo

Snip:

As a matter of fact, using a liver support supplement such as TUDCA may even INCREASE the oral absorption and bioavailability of the steroid because it prevents cholestasis of the liver. You have to understand what happens in the liver when you use C17 alkylated orals. Cholestasis is defined as an impairment of bile flow in the liver. I don't know if you remember your highschool biology class, but bile is an extremely important component of the liver and of our body, because bile serves dual purposes:

1. In a way, it acts as a waste removal sewage fluid for the liver. All of the byproducts (not all necessarily bad, but stuff that your liver needs to remove on a regular basis or else it will harm the liver from an unhealthy buildup) that your liver creates from all the work it does in metabolizing a bazillion billion different things every day, gets collected as bile. In turn, bile salts really 'clean' the liver out.

2. Bile and the bile salts within it are very important to our digestion, especially of fats. It's stored in the gall bladder and then pumped into your duodenum (upper section of your small intestine) when you eat food to aid in digestion, as it assists in the breakdown of fats and such.

Now, in a nutshell, what happens when your liver gets 'damaged' from oral steroids is: (and i'm not going to get into the specific chemistry of it for ease of explanation to the layman) the liver is overloaded from processing the C17 alkylation on the anabolic steroid you are ingesting. What happens as a result is that it causes a slow down of bile flow in the liver, because the liver is getting so overloaded with the processes it is trying to undergo. The impairment of bile flow in the liver is known as cholestasis, and is a direct result of C17 alkylated steroid use . When bile flow is slowed down too much (or has outright STOPPED), the bile salts, which are very toxic to the liver cells, will start to damage those liver cells. The key idea here is BILE FLOW, and you'll see this repeated a lot in this post! The liver needs to keep churning bile through itself in all of its cells in order to clean out the metabolites resulting from all of the biochemical processes it's doing every second!

I don't have much time on me, so for further explanation I am going to quote a couple articles I found that explain in more detail what TUDCA does and how it literally is the ONLY liver support compound that is useful, to a much larger degree than anything else, at combating cholestasis:


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2012)

Hell no!


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## BigNick (Nov 25, 2009)

I usually use liv 52's DS but now I have read this I am gonna get me some TUDCA!


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

its just a gimmick mate,do the medical profession prescribe it to alcholics who would benefit the most ? no


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2012)

Hackskii , that's a good read, interesting about how the bile flushes the liver. So how does the bile in the gall bladder help here or is that not relavant as it mainly deals with digestion ? I am thinking about that in terms of my own liver, as I don't have a gall bladder, I had it removed. So should I take AAS's at any point, would the lack of gall bladder make things worse ?


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Junk, nice info there btw hacks


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Cheers guy saves me a few quid wont bother with it. Will not be boozing and always drink plenty of water anyway.


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

Has anyone managed to find TUDCA in UK?

I found this product from PowerMyself "Antaeus Labs Aegis" but it's £56 for a month supply. Which is just plain stupid.


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

Glad I'm not the only one lol.


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## BigNick (Nov 25, 2009)

Ahal84 said:


> Has anyone managed to find TUDCA in UK?
> 
> I found this product from PowerMyself "Antaeus Labs Aegis" but it's £56 for a month supply. Which is just plain stupid.


Found it here but I have never purchased it!!

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/tudca-tauroursodeoxycholic-acid-60-capsules.html


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

OldManRiver said:


> Hackskii , that's a good read, interesting about how the bile flushes the liver. So how does the bile in the gall bladder help here or is that not relavant as it mainly deals with digestion ? I am thinking about that in terms of my own liver, as I don't have a gall bladder, I had it removed. So should I take AAS's at any point, would the lack of gall bladder make things worse ?


I am not sure to be honest, I would think if you are a drinker then TUDCA would be a good idea to take once in a while, oral steroids as well.

Healthy liver would allow you to be healthier.

Not sure with no gall bladder.



Ahal84 said:


> Has anyone managed to find TUDCA in UK?
> 
> I found this product from PowerMyself "Antaeus Labs Aegis" but it's £56 for a month supply. Which is just plain stupid.


Well, you wont have to stay on it forever.



BigNick said:


> Found it here but I have never purchased it!!
> 
> http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/tudca-tauroursodeoxycholic-acid-60-capsules.html


Awesome, I will buy that today, thanks for that link.


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Milk thistle is one of the biggest myths out there.

Waste of time using it.


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

BigNick said:


> Found it here but I have never purchased it!!
> 
> http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/tudca-tauroursodeoxycholic-acid-60-capsules.html


I ordered from them once (not TUDCA) and got charged import tax.


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## JusNoGood (Apr 4, 2011)

kingdale said:


> Alot of the time milk thistle gets recommended on here but does it actually do anything? Also seen a fair few people say that they dont bother with it so just wondering wether i should use it for my cycle?


Got to say I've never seen it recommended on here?


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## loftus (Mar 9, 2012)

going to try ursodiol tabs before during and for a period after any future cycle.i got that horrible burning indigestion type symptoms on last course of anapolon..it was almost like my food was rotting in my stomach,it was aparently one of the symtoms of liver problems occuring..so now i hope to get plenty of ursodiol from turkey...and no more cc17 alkyalated gear for me...will also have bloods done after course of ursodiol.i dont get the indigestion type symptoms now after i ceased taking anapolon...


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

You know what? I've used oral steroids both with and without milk thistle. I've found that if I don't use it, I get nasty acid reflux, like I've got a stomach full of bile. I'm not too worried about my liver enzymes, they will bounce back after tbol or anavar or whatever, but I find my guts are just a lot more settled when I use milk thistle.

Its just the cheap Holland & Barrett tablets. Its quite a good general antioxidant, but particularly for your liver.

If you find you are getting tummy upset when using orals, give milk thistle a try. I don't know why it works, but I'm convinced that it does.


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## PowerMyself (Sep 29, 2011)

Ahal84 said:


> Has anyone managed to find TUDCA in UK?
> 
> I found this product from PowerMyself "Antaeus Labs Aegis" but it's £56 for a month supply. Which is just plain stupid.


Yep, very expensive indeed. Primordial's Liver Juice is much more affordable and a decent product.


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

PowerMyself said:


> Yep, very expensive indeed. Primordial's Liver Juice is much more affordable and a decent product.


But it has milk thistle as a main and only ingredient.

Also I don't like Primordial Performance due to their marketing hypes


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

Honestly everything I've read says the liver is a very strong organ... so long as you're not constantly kicking sh!t out of it it's fine


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## JusNoGood (Apr 4, 2011)

Zorrin said:


> You know what? I've used oral steroids both with and without milk thistle. I've found that if I don't use it, I get nasty acid reflux, like I've got a stomach full of bile. I'm not too worried about my liver enzymes, they will bounce back after tbol or anavar or whatever, but I find my guts are just a lot more settled when I use milk thistle.
> 
> Its just the cheap Holland & Barrett tablets. Its quite a good general antioxidant, but particularly for your liver.
> 
> If you find you are getting tummy upset when using orals, give milk thistle a try. I don't know why it works, but I'm convinced that it does.


That's interesting as a number of reports I've read list bloating, stomach upsets and diarrhoea as side effects of MT. I guess we're all different


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## Matdylan (Jun 3, 2012)

I have ben wasting my money I guess


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## jocksir (Aug 8, 2012)

interesting read hacksii, i was just about to start stocking on milk thistle.

i did find the TUDCA here http://bodyconsciousuk.com/liv.aspx


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

jocksir said:


> interesting read hacksii, i was just about to start stocking on milk thistle.
> 
> i did find the TUDCA here http://bodyconsciousuk.com/liv.aspx


Good man, take 2 tabs a day with a meal.


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

I don't use milk thistle or Liv52, but have them in, but just never use them


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

has anyone got any links to show that its not effective? i know milk thistle is bs but im having a debate with some nob ed and hes saying im being stupid for not using it, and that he was prescribed it, which i know is complete bollox


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## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

posted a link on fb mate


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

IGotTekkers said:


> has anyone got any links to show that its not effective? i know milk thistle is bs but im having a debate with some nob ed and hes saying im being stupid for not using it, and that he was prescribed it, which i know is complete bollox


I could be wrong but i dont think any independant medical studies have been done on milk thistle and oral steroids.

I have spoken at length with a consultant liver specialist though and he said it would do no good whatsoever.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

husky said:


> posted a link on fb mate


Got that mate, cheers! Will be using that as a reference!


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## Xbigdave79 (Mar 30, 2012)

I'd rathe buy more juice


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

Anything that is meant to be a liver protect is a waste of time...

Drink lots of water, get a blood test done to be doubly sure.


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## leedsgains (Apr 25, 2013)

IMO for the sake of a tenner or so why not just take it. It may or may not work but if there's a chance it does I'm in.

Not a replacement for drinking water and keeping on top of your bloods though. Every little helps...


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

leedsgains said:


> IMO for the sake of a tenner or so why not just take it. It may or may not work but if there's a chance it does I'm in.
> 
> Not a replacement for drinking water and keeping on top of your bloods though. Every little helps...


Not when there not a scrap of evidence that it does work id rather spend my tenner on some good food


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

shotgun said:


> waste of time tbh.just drink 5litres of natures finest a day.no tablet will beat that.


yeah I don't use anything but a shed load of water.

I did read in the past members who have had blood work done post cycles with and without such things as milk thistle and liv52 and made no difference in liver values.


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## leedsgains (Apr 25, 2013)

1010AD said:


> Not when there not a scrap of evidence that it does work id rather spend my tenner on some good food


Bargain Bucket?


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Nope, its just another compound for your liver to break down and is about as much use as tribulus!!


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## funkypigeon (Mar 3, 2013)

I bought some ages ago and then found out it was pretty worthless, but i still take 1 per day running dbol as its just sitting there, i also find that it dose help reduce hangovers if i take two before night out drinking.

But i wouldnt advise buying any for AAS purposes as its more or less a waste of money, just consume a lot of fluids and the liver should take care of itself, it is a very durable organ designed to take a bit of a beating due to chemicals and toxins in the enviroment anyway and is pretty efficient at rejuvenating as long as you dont subject it to a beating for an extended period of time pretty much all damage should be reversable.


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## Mike90 (Nov 21, 2013)

No never have, drinking water like a fish all day keeps the system clean.


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

There was a big study at Maryland University on milk thistle, double blind placebo study. The results were no different with or without, it was tested on people with Hep C. Interestingly though there is evidence it can be useful in sun creams for prevention of skin cancer and may stop cancer cells dividing in the liver.


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

Ahal84 said:


> Has anyone managed to find TUDCA in UK?
> 
> I found this product from PowerMyself "Antaeus Labs Aegis" but it's £56 for a month supply. Which is just plain stupid.


found some looking at th £25 option and looking for feedback Cheap Tudca


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Wheyman said:


> found some looking at th £25 option and looking for feedback Cheap Tudca


Bought the same one last week for my cycle.

Never used tudca before so can't add anything regarding info of its effectiveness


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