# depression



## Machine1983 (Nov 27, 2013)

Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

Machine1983 said:


> Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off


 I have watched my Dad battle depression on and off for years and a good mate has been on anti depressants for 5 years+ and he is same age as me (27).

There will be good days and bad, you just need to enjoy the good and ride out the bad mate.

Have you spoke to a GP about how you feel?

All the best


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

No Flush Niacin at 3200mg per day in two divided doses has pretty much alleviated mine, and I don't remember a time when I did not feel that way, even as a child.

No kind of drug touched it at all, and IMO GP's are a total waste of time.


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## Machine1983 (Nov 27, 2013)

I take anti depressants, but theyre mainly to help with sleep, they dont seem to help with mood. i think a lot of its to do with thinking about things, past etc, thats the trouble


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## Ragnar (Dec 6, 2012)

I find some fresh air and intense exercise helps to clear my head when I start dwelling on the past, I find I think too deeply about bad things when I'm bored or sat on my ****! In other words, do something to take your mind off it if possible


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## AleisterCrowley (Jul 28, 2013)

Nytol said:


> No Flush Niacin at 3200mg per day in two divided doses has pretty much alleviated mine, and I don't remember a time when I did not feel that way, even as a child.
> 
> No kind of drug touched it at all, and IMO GP's are a total waste of time.


The last thing you need is to get addicted to over the counter drugs.A recent study showed curcumin was better at beating depression than prozac.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I doubt whether you will be able to 'shake it off'...I would strongly advise some Counselling to attempt to uncover any issues you have.

If you search on here, you'll find many people, myself included who have had or have this illness.

Practical things to do:

Good sleep

Fresh air

Good food

Regular exercise.


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## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

Machine1983 said:


> I take anti depressants, but theyre mainly to help with sleep, they dont seem to help with mood. i think a lot of its to do with thinking about things, past etc, thats the trouble


Stick with your GP and try and get professional help, CBT helps me no end. Especially in these cold months and work is doing my head in.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

As Mez says...CBT...it helped me a heck of a lot.


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## MarkF (Sep 20, 2013)

Suffered with depression for a over 5years now but my go reckons it started before then. It all came to head when I had a mental brake down in middle of the street.

All I can say is if affects us all differently I tried many different meds that didn't work I'm now in paroxatine at 60mg per day and it helps but there's still days I struggle! Counselling helped me a lot and I would say you give it a try. A GP main solution is to drug you up and that's not necessarily the best.

I would also find something to focus on that will help when your feeling down. mine was modifying cars it gave me a new hobbie/focus and helped me out so much!


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## Shadow (Aug 20, 2004)

I was off work for over 4 months last year with depression/stress and I found a combination of low dose medication, a counsellor and a hypnotherapist worked well for me. I was a cynic with the counselling and hypnotherapy but found it's worked better than the drugs medium to long term.

I still get good and bad days but as my doctor pointed out everyone gets good and bad days, it's when they become bad weeks/months you know there is an issue.


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## bigmitch69 (May 14, 2008)

You don't shake chronic depression mate. You just learn to live with it. Meds, exercise, low stress jobs and relationships, good friends. You'll have up days and down days. It's all about dealing with the down days. Wishing you the best.


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

I used to suffer depression and panic disorder, when i had a panic attack depression followed or if i was depressed i would take a panic attack,i first took it when i was 21 till i was in my 40s the panic attack have gone but i feel down quite a lot of the time, it ruined a good part of my life.

I have tried Prozac (that stuffs bad for me)

ativan (really bad ****)

Propanolol (done nothing for me)

Seroxat (withdrawal was worse than the attacks)

Diazapam (was the one for me)

the doctors dont really know the score but get specialized help it might make a difference.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

AleisterCrowley said:


> The last thing you need is to get addicted to over the counter drugs.A recent study showed curcumin was better at beating depression than prozac.


not sure why you quoted nytol and mentioned getting addicted to over the counter drugs , Niacin (what nytol mentioned) is vitamin B3


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

AleisterCrowley said:


> The last thing you need is to get addicted to over the counter drugs.A recent study showed curcumin was better at beating depression than prozac.


I think SSRI's are ineffective at best, and can actually make the problem worse in some cases.

Everyone with mental health issues should read this book, if you get it on Kindle it is only 99p!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spark-revolutionary-science-exercise-brain/dp/1849161577/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385757260&sr=8-1&keywords=spark+by+john+ratey


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

maverick1888 said:


> I used to suffer depression and panic disorder, when i had a panic attack depression followed or if i was depressed i would take a panic attack,i first took it when i was 21 till i was in my 40s the panic attack have gone but i feel down quite a lot of the time, it ruined a good part of my life.
> 
> I have tried Prozac (that stuffs bad for me)
> 
> ...


I have tried everything you mentioned apart from Diazapam, i have lived with anxiety and depression all my life since i was a kid at school, i am now 50 years old, there is no cure, you have bad days, and worse days, good days are very few and far between, i have seen psychologist on a number of occasions, they did nothing for me, i did a cbt course in 2011, it did nothing for me, i know everyone is different, but i know full well i will be like this until the day i die, know one said people are born 100% normal, some of us have defects, this is how i look at myself, not gonna waffle on, hope you cope well with it mate, i have made it to 50, god knows how, it's not been a great journey, but i will keep plodding on, until my numbers up


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> I have tried everything you mentioned apart from Diazapam, i have lived with anxiety and depression all my life since i was a kid at school, i am now 50 years old, *there is no cure*, you have bad days, and worse days, good days are very few and far between, i have seen psychologist on a number of occasions, they did nothing for me, i did a cbt course in 2011, it did nothing for me, i know everyone is different, but i know full well i will be like this until the day i die, know one said people are born 100% normal, some of us have defects, this is how i look at myself, not gonna waffle on, hope you cope well with it mate, i have made it to 50, god knows how, it's not been a great journey, but i will keep plodding on, until my numbers up


Have you tried high dose magnesium and niacin, plus running a mile every day?

http://www.psychiatrycentre.co.uk/

Watch the video on the home page then click the depression link.

I speak to the guy who owns this place, it is an interesting technology.


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

I was for over 10years mate. The thing that helped me and kept me focused was when I start training, changed my life


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## AleisterCrowley (Jul 28, 2013)

aqualung said:


> not sure why you quoted nytol and mentioned getting addicted to over the counter drugs , Niacin (what nytol mentioned) is vitamin B3


I quotes him because i agreed with his comment.He said don't go to the GP and get medicated for depression and i agreed and quoted a recent study that says a natural extract out performed a prescibed drug.I think you got mixed up.


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Nytol said:


> Have you tried high dose magnesium and niacin, plus running a mile every day?
> 
> http://www.psychiatrycentre.co.uk/
> 
> ...


How high a dose should i take, i am just about to watch the video, i know myself that i feel good for a few hours after a workout, sometimes maybe too confident, but then it fades away and i am back to being me


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

Ive had it really since as long as i can remember but i supose im lucky as mine is generally quite mild

Rather than ups and downs i just kinda stay below average with the occasional up an down

End up getting painted as someone lazy an abit of a cvnt when infact your trying 10 times more than anyone else

As people have said stay active dont dwell on things

Get up and go to sleep earlyish and at a regular time helps massivly!


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## Akura (Jun 9, 2012)

AleisterCrowley said:


> I quotes him because i agreed with his comment.He said don't go to the GP and get medicated for depression and i agreed and quoted a recent study that says a natural extract out performed a prescibed drug.I think you got mixed up.


I think your use of the quote facility is mixed up


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> How high a dose should i take, i am just about to watch the video, i know myself that i feel good for a few hours after a workout, sometimes maybe too confident, but then it fades away and i am back to being me


Have a read up on both things, but I take 3200mg of No Flush Niacin and 4 of these per day http://www.medshopexpress.com/081989.html

Other magnesium can work, but absorption is the key, I think bulk powders do a Magnesium Bisglycinate, which is supposedly quite well absorbed, but I can only vouch for the effectiveness of the Mag-Tab brand.

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/magnesium-bisglycinate-tablets.html?dpc=ZPL10&msg=New%20customer?%20Get%2010%25%20off%20your%20first%20Bulk%20Powders%20order&view=ppc&gclid=CNKUxYHzirsCFUzHtAodzBcA-A

This is the Niacin I use http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00373/No-Flush-Niacin-Inositol-Hexanicotinate.html

Read the book 'Spark' I put the link up for, it is about how cardiovascular exercise can actually change the brain and alleviate the symptoms of many mental disorders.

It is not an endorphin based quick fix, but a true potential brain changer, for anxiety, depression, bipolar, ADHD.

I really can not recommend the above things enough, as someone who suffered depression my whole life, plus other stuff, I can honestly say I am no longer in that category, and have not been for some time, I think for me the Niacin was the biggest factor, but Magnesium has been life changing for my mental health too, and I do mean life changing.

A guy I urged to try the above is now trying to get his psychiatric evaluation changed, as it was incorrect.

He thought he had ADHD as he had the symptoms, but it turns out that his anxiety disorder was the cause and after starting the above, within 2 weeks it was no longer there and nor were the ADHD symptoms.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Machine1983 said:


> Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off


This is one of the reasons why I lift...


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Nytol said:


> Have a read up on both things, but I take 3200mg of No Flush Niacin and 4 of these per day http://www.medshopexpress.com/081989.html
> 
> Other magnesium can work, but absorption is the key, I think bulk powders do a Magnesium Bisglycinate, which is supposedly quite well absorbed, but I can only vouch for the effectiveness of the Mag-Tab brand.
> 
> ...


Cheers Nytol, i will give it a go, after all i have nothing to lose, and everything to gain, thanks for taking the time to help out, sorry for the hijack op


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm being 100% honest when I say that I only suffer depression when OFF cycle.

Solution - stay on cycle. Worked wonders for me, wouldn't dream of going back to the state I was in before.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Cheers Nytol, i will give it a go, after all i have nothing to lose, and everything to gain, thanks for taking the time to help out, sorry for the hijack op


No problem mate, I like the fact this forum seems more open of late. I think you will find a greater % of mental disorders amongst those who train than the general population. We try to fix the inside by working on the outside, but most of the time you have to go deeper.

It took me until I was 30 to have the balls to do that.


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## Machine1983 (Nov 27, 2013)

cheers yeh i think its abt filling ur time so ur not thinking


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## twc_rm (Sep 3, 2010)

Just ordered some of the suggested supps myself, nothing to lose as others have said!


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

been on and off **** since poppin e's like candy back in the 90's was put on surmontil at first and whoa that **** would tranq a horse

finally got off citalapram a couple of years ago best thing i ever did now on low dose remeron and never better


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## Machine1983 (Nov 27, 2013)

So taking niacin and magnesium works?


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Just ordered these two from amazon, and going to get the wife to download the book on her kindle when she comes in from shopping


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Just ordered these two from amazon, and going to get the wife to download the book on her kindle when she comes in from shopping
> 
> View attachment 141337
> View attachment 141338


I have a friend who did a blog on those Niacin, just e-mailed her to get you a link if you want to read how she found they worked, which I think she said they did. Calmed her down a lot


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

lee85 said:


> I have a friend who did a blog on those Niacin, just e-mailed her to get you a link if you want to read how she found they worked, which I think she said they did. Calmed her down a lot


Cheers Lee, that would be great


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> I have tried everything you mentioned apart from Diazapam, i have lived with anxiety and depression all my life since i was a kid at school, i am now 50 years old, there is no cure, you have bad days, and worse days, good days are very few and far between, i have seen psychologist on a number of occasions, they did nothing for me, i did a cbt course in 2011, it did nothing for me, i know everyone is different, but i know full well i will be like this until the day i die, know one said people are born 100% normal, some of us have defects, this is how i look at myself, not gonna waffle on, hope you cope well with it mate, i have made it to 50, god knows how, it's not been a great journey, but i will keep plodding on, until my numbers up


Well Ken i am also 50 must have been a bad year lol,i have been to psychologists a number of times, but i think unless you suffer from it you dont really understand the feeling, the big change for me was stopping coffee/caffeine or stimulants of any kind it made a massive change.


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Cheers Lee, that would be great


No probs mate. It's 07.30 where she is, as soon as I get the link I'll post here


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

I have seen a few over the years, they just dont get how i feel, they might have loads of qualifications, but unless you are going through it for yourself, you dont fully understand, it used to stress me out just going to see this particular one, we ended up falling out, she just did not get it


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## hggcraig (Feb 6, 2011)

Haven't read the thread but suffered from depression since I was a teenager. The way I overcome it is to keep giving myself things to look forward to. I usually go to Thailand at least once a year so I always have something to look forward to.


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Cheers Lee, that would be great


Here ye go mate http://smilebreatheandgoslowly.wordpress.com/2013/08/04/new-approaches-no-meds-please/

She did say this about it " I stopped after about a month and a half. One of the issues you need to be careful of if you are doing this is that niacin can affect the kidneys so high doses are NOT recommended for long periods. That being said, I have not had a depressive episode since taking it."

She also does Yoga and says that really helps her. Check it out mate, hope that helps


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## Machine1983 (Nov 27, 2013)

im skeptical how can this niacin work? and it cant be good for your health surely?


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

lee85 said:


> Here ye go mate http://smilebreatheandgoslowly.wordpress.com/2013/08/04/new-approaches-no-meds-please/
> 
> She did say this about it " I stopped after about a month and a half. One of the issues you need to be careful of if you are doing this is that niacin can affect the kidneys so high doses are NOT recommended for long periods. That being said, I have not had a depressive episode since taking it."
> 
> She also does Yoga and says that really helps her. Check it out mate, hope that helps


Cheers Lee just read it, i did not realise i should only do one or two months on the niacin, say thanks to your friend for me, it looks like she is doing really good on them


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Cheers Lee just read it, i did not realise i should only do one or two months on the niacin, say thanks to your friend for me, it looks like she is doing really good on them


I let her know mate :thumb: Glad it came in handy. She's doing really well. Here is another update, I don't know if that was on it...

http://smilebreatheandgoslowly.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/the-niacin-update/


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

mrwright said:


> Ive had it really since as long as i can remember but i supose im lucky as mine is generally quite mild
> 
> Rather than ups and downs i just kinda stay below average with the occasional up an down
> 
> ...


to

They dont understand how exhausting it is, or how much you have to give just to do something others do without thought,

sometime the panic attack would leave me totally fckd, my calf muscles would be aching as if i was trying to grip the ground with my toes,

every time you take a panic attack you think you are dieing,i remember as a kid going to the doctors with yucky feelings in my stomach, he said it was like migraine of the stomach,and i think that was the beginning for me.

It runs in the family as both my brothers have it in different ways different symptoms but still connected to the nervous system.


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> I have seen a few over the years, they just dont get how i feel, they might have loads of qualifications, but unless you are going through it for yourself, you dont fully understand, it used to stress me out just going to see this particular one, we ended up falling out, she just did not get it


I went to see a psychologist in the 80s, 4 times i went 1st time was ok 2nd time she forgot my notes, 3rd time she once again forgot my notes so she made an appointment for the following week, i was there sitting waiting and she was on holiday i never went back.

The second one was standing in and had came out of retirement to cover maternity leave,he fell asleep 20 mins in no joke he started snoring, i walked out.


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

maverick1888 said:


> to
> 
> They dont understand how exhausting it is, or how much you have to give just to do something others do without thought,
> 
> ...


Panic is fairly routine to treat.


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

MrLulz said:


> Panic is fairly routine to treat.


If it was routine to treat, i wouldn't have had it 20 years,having a panic attack and having panic disorder are not the same,and people react different, maybe i'm not as macho as some !!!


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

maverick1888 said:


> If it was routine to treat, i wouldn't have had it 20 years,*having a panic attack and having panic disorder* are not the same,and people react different, maybe i'm not as macho as some !!!


I think the difference between the two is that panic disorder is when panic attacks become frequent enough to affect functioning due to situational avoidance?

What situations/places/environments do you avoid because of your panic or fear of having a panic attack?


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

MrLulz said:


> I think the difference between the two is that panic disorder is when panic attacks become frequent enough to affect functioning due to situational avoidance?
> 
> What situations/places/environments do you avoid because of your panic or fear of having a panic attack?


At first i thought you were being sarcastic, but your spot on,I used to avoid ques in shops going to places that was not within range of a hospital in case i chocked,

in traffic jams i would freak out heart would race mouth would dry up and i felt i was going to chock as i couldn't swallow,fight or flight would kick in and i could have got out and ran away but i didn't thank god, but now or in the last 8 years i do all i couldn't back then with no problems maybe i grew out of it,but if i take caffeine or stimulants i can feel twinges so i void,i don't think what if anymore i just get on with it


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Machine1983 said:


> So taking niacin and magnesium works?


Yes.



maverick1888 said:


> Well Ken i am also 50 must have been a bad year lol,i have been to psychologists a number of times, but i think unless you suffer from it you dont really understand the feeling


Of course, like any mental disorder, if you don't have it, it is often impossible to imagine.

At times I try to explain to others how I feel, and even to me it sounds ridiculous, but it does not make it any less true.

The best therapists are ones who have gone through what you have and come out the other side.



lee85 said:


> Here ye go mate http://smilebreatheandgoslowly.wordpress.com/2013/08/04/new-approaches-no-meds-please/
> 
> She did say this about it " I stopped after about a month and a half. One of the issues you need to be careful of if you are doing this is that niacin can affect the kidneys so high doses are NOT recommended for long periods. That being said, I have not had a depressive episode since taking it."
> 
> She also does Yoga and says that really helps her. Check it out mate, hope that helps


I've been using it for over 2 years, not missed a day, and had a full blood and heart function work up a few months ago, and everything was perfect.

Can you link me the studies that show this, dose, duration etc.



Machine1983 said:


> im skeptical how can this niacin work? and it cant be good for your health surely?


Why are you being so negative?

If you dont' want to try it, then don't. The last thing a thread on depression needs is negativity.

See above regarding my health.


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

maverick1888 said:


> At first i thought you were being sarcastic, but your spot on,I used to avoid ques in shops going to places that was not within range of a hospital in case i chocked,
> 
> in traffic jams i would freak out heart would race mouth would dry up and i felt i was going to chock as i couldn't swallow,fight or flight would kick in and i could have got out and ran away but i didn't thank god, but now or in the last 8 years i do all i couldn't back then with no problems maybe i grew out of it,but if i take caffeine or stimulants i can feel twinges so i void,i don't think what if anymore i just get on with it


Glad you're not as affected by things and can do things you previously can't.

This is a decent short read on panic if you wanted to take a look.


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## KRH (Jun 30, 2012)

I have been depressed for as long as I remember, I've tried a lot and nothing seems to 'shake it off'. You have to face it that nothing will get rid off it, it will always be there. I've tried OTC meds, SSRI's, etc. SSRI's make me worse. I was last on Paxil and it made me suicidal, since then I've refused to try any other SSRI's. Combine depression with very bad anxiety and you constantly feel like sh*t. I also suffer from panic attacks, at first certain things triggered them off, they started off mild and have now gone very bad. I now get random panic attacks caused by my mind. I somehow give myself a panic attack by obsessively worrying about a certain thing, it starts off with my lungs feeling like they're tightening up, then I struggle to breath, get heart palpitations, a choking feeling and dilated pupils. I'd take anything to prevent the panic attacks, the only thing that works is Valium (Diazepam), however I have to take enough to put me out. I guess the only thing you can do is ride it out.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

KRH said:


> You have to face it that nothing will get rid off it, it will always be there.


Mate, you can not have that attitude, although I do know how difficult it is to be proactive when you feel that way, and to actually give a $hit about anything.

Have you tried what is mentioned above? If not then you can not discount it.

Have you tried 30 minutes of hard CV each day? If so you can not discount it.

I'd have a friendly bet with you, that if you implemented both things for 3 months, your life would be very different to it is now.


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

KRH Try avoiding stimulants for a while see how you get on (ie) coffee/caffeine. i used to drink black coffee none stop when i had the garage, and a pt asked if i drank alot of coffee as my heart rate at rest was high,my heart rate was nearly at full pelt and that was before training.


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## tyke1 (Dec 17, 2010)

I have depression currently taking paroxetine at the mo but doin fuk all. Have bad thoughts a lot and ****ed up dreams. Struggled with OCD in the past and now always to and fro with the the thought of taking gear in a hope that it will help me. Mind is a strange thing.


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi Ken. Just visiting but saw your posts about depression and registered in order to make this post. I truly know how you feel being in exactly the same position myself. Nobody who hasn't had depression really understands how painful it is. And it seems to me that we all have our own unique version of the illness. I have tried every form of medication and none have helped. CBT made me worse.

I reached a point 12 months ago where I could not face spending the rest of my life with the pain I was in. I felt I had to recover by some means or other.

The fact is that there are options available. For a start, although CBT didn't help, I have found that the Nice guidelines also recommend different forms of talking therapy. In my case I paid for private Jungian Analysis and found it made a big difference but my money ran out after 5 months. So I am currently waiting for something similar called Interactive Psychodynamic Therapy which is available under the NHS. I am also considering ECT.

I am also waiting for an assessment from the Affective Disorders Unit at the Bethlem Hospital in London. I've been waiting for this since 2008. Long story, but essentially anyone can ask their GP for a referral.

I have made a mistake in not following this up faster because instead I discovered a drug that did work called Modafinil. I started to order it from the Internet. Big mistake. Modafinil is a widely used drug amongst students. It's also used by the army. It was originally designed to help people with Narcolepsy to keep them awake. If you take a normal dose you won't sleep for as long as you take it. Not only does it stop you sleeping but it acts as a mode enhancer. I started using it occasionally when the pain became so bad I needed something in order to function. In fact it was first prescribed by my doctor. But when a new Doctor took over they had a different treatment regime in mind and thought Modafinil could be dangerous in the long term.

They were right. But I had started to rely on it. So I just carried on getting it online. The consequences of doing this were all bad, but I won't list them here.

In summary, for people like me with long term serious treatment resistant depression, the options available are long term therapy and if that doesn't work ECT. (there are also more drastic solutions including DBS, deep brain stimulation, or vagus stimulation, as a last resort. These involve high risk lengthy brain surgery.)

So don't become resigned to your situation. I would recommend joining MIND. They have a great website that covers all the possible options. The only thing that keeps me optimistic is knowing that my Aunt and Grandmother both got better, even if it took ECT to achieve this.


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

MrLulz said:


> Glad you're not as affected by things and can do things you previously can't.
> 
> This is a decent short read on panic if you wanted to take a look.


I can relate to this totally,good read


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

i feel like sh1t most days. Some good ideas in this thread, thanks!


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

This is a great thread with some great ideas and personal experiences. I will most definitely be trying the niacin and magnesium. I didn't realise the cardio could be so beneficial, very interesting:

I've been battling depression and suicidal tendencies for the past 11 months now and what's helped me is force feeding good food and getting focused on my training. It's helped but I feel I have to force it and be very strong willed to keep it up.

I've refused all ssri's and after reading stories on here I'm glad I have. It's turned out one of my best friends is suffering badly also and has kept it from everyone but told me in confidence about it. We now meet up and chat for hours, it helps us both a lot.

I hope everyone here suffering can find some inner peace and overcome their problems eventually.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Aint read the thread but if you're depressed? don't take this the wrong way but are you getting some? cause I know that would be the route to me if I was depressed lol. serious bro just go and f*** a stunning girl and if you're still depressed? than I dunno lol....


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi KRH

Don't make the mistake I made. I have also had depression for as long as I can remember. I Don't know how old you are but I am 56, which I would guess is quite a bit older than you. I took part in the first Ironman Triathlon in about 1999 and yet spent most of last year in bed.

The fact is unless you take the illness seriously it is unlikely just to get better and there is every chance it will get worse. There are treatment options open and although it's tough you should find out what they are.

Your GP could make a referral to the Affective Disorders unit at the Bethlem Hospital in South London where you would get a proper diagnosis and be made aware what your options are. Another good thing to read are the NICE guidelines on how the NHS should treat depression.

http://guidance.nice.org.uk/CG90

I'm sorry to say that none of this will be easy. Any kind of treatment is likely to be expensive, but the simple fact is the you are entitled to it. No where does it say that you should learn to live with your condition. Unfortunately for anyone who has a mental health problem the services are under funded. The only reason for this is that they know they can treat people like they can, due to the nature of the illness they are unlikely to complain. If you rocked up at a&e with a broken leg they wouldn't just tell you to get used to it, they would fix it. Likewise they should fix your condition. And mine.

But the problem is that it requires time and money and is difficult to do. It probably doesn't help that if you are anything like me there are times when we believe it's our fault. I suggest you take the problem very seriously and focus on getting a treatment plan that will fix things. This won't be at all easy but unless you want to spend the rest of your life like you feel now, and with every chance of becoming much worse, you must muster what ever energy you can right now on making it happen.

I know this sounds like saying you should take more exercise, something I find intensely unhelpful, but it is essential. I have a pile of books on how to get over depression, all of which haven't helped, other than two written by Dorothy Rowe. I would strongly recommend you get these on AMAZON or audio.

Also, either watch on Youtube or get a book on Mindfulness by Cabat Zinn. These books are widely accepted as being the most useful by the medical profession and I can only endorse them.

They are not a solution but helpful while you work on getting a treatment plan in place. Valium is something that I also use if things get really bad, but it's not more than a sticking plaster. It is also highly addictive.

I'm sorry if the above sounds prescriptive, but it has taken me 50 years to get where I am, and I feel very passionate about doing whatever I can to prevent anyone going through the same.



KRH said:


> I have been depressed for as long as I remember, I've tried a lot and nothing seems to 'shake it off'. You have to face it that nothing will get rid off it, it will always be there. I've tried OTC meds, SSRI's, etc. SSRI's make me worse. I was last on Paxil and it made me suicidal, since then I've refused to try any other SSRI's. Combine depression with very bad anxiety and you constantly feel like sh*t. I also suffer from panic attacks, at first certain things triggered them off, they started off mild and have now gone very bad. I now get random panic attacks caused by my mind. I somehow give myself a panic attack by obsessively worrying about a certain thing, it starts off with my lungs feeling like they're tightening up, then I struggle to breath, get heart palpitations, a choking feeling and dilated pupils. I'd take anything to prevent the panic attacks, the only thing that works is Valium (Diazepam), however I have to take enough to put me out. I guess the only thing you can do is ride it out.


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## maverick1888 (Feb 9, 2011)

Youngstarz said:


> Aint read the thread but if you're depressed? don't take this the wrong way but are you getting some? cause I know that would be the route to me if I was depressed lol. serious bro just go and f*** a stunning girl and if you're still depressed? than I dunno lol....


This threads for grown ups, you should be asleep at this time lol


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

maverick1888 said:


> This threads for grown ups, you should be asleep at this time lol


 :blowme:


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Youngstarz said:


> Aint read the thread but if you're depressed? don't take this the wrong way but are you getting some? cause I know that would be the route to me if I was depressed lol. serious bro just go and f*** a stunning girl and if you're still depressed? than I dunno lol....


Although some might find your reply naive it does raise an interesting point. Anyone suffering from long term depression will know how badly relationships can be damaged by it. And from a personal perspective even when the opportunity unexpectedly arose to do as you suggest with a truly stunning woman, way out of my league (England Rugby players gf) I ended up being the one to call it off after two years because of the damage it was causing me and in the long term cause her.


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

John Andrew said:


> Anti depressants made me suicidal. Train, eat right, Get so tired you sleep. Find a woman to love. Get off your ass and live. WE all have bad times, good times and sad times. Learning to cope is part of learning to live. All the best mate. John


Indeed, life is a series of challenges that must be met. A life where we felt happy all the time would be unliveable. But depression is a condition that exists outside of the environment you talk about. It's nothing like feeling sad. What you are saying applies to most people, most of the time. Depression is a condition that prevents a person doing the things you suggest and acting in that way. You wouldn't be able or expected to "cope" with a broken leg. You would need help to get it treated. It's exactly the same with depression. It needs to be treated according to how badly it affects you.

That's why the psychological and psychiatric services exist. And why surgeons perform DBS and vagus nerve stimulation brain surgery. No one wants to have eight hours of surgery just because they feel sad.

It's quite possible to have a short depressive episode and recover without needing specialist intervention. But it's also possible to be born with a genetic predisposition to the illness that eventually lead almost to a refractory condition if anything in a persons environment as a child is at all damaging.


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Nytol said:


> I've been using it for over 2 years, not missed a day, and had a full blood and heart function work up a few months ago, and everything was perfect.
> 
> Can you link me the studies that show this, dose, duration etc.


This is someone else experience with the drug, if you're interested go read her blog about it...


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

lee85 said:


> This is someone else experience with the drug, if you're interested go read her blog about it...


It's not a drug, it is a vitamin, and I asked if there was any science?


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Nytol said:


> It's not a drug, it is a vitamin, and I asked if there was any science?


At the end of the day, I quoted what she had said and linked something I thought Ken would find helpful, taking it from someone else perspective who has took or is taken the stuff. If you really want to know, go research yourself...To make it clear Nytol, this is not my opinion, it's first hand from someone who took it...behave yourself


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

lee85 said:


> niacin can affect the kidneys so high doses are NOT recommended for long periods.





lee85 said:


> At the end of the day, I quoted what she had said and linked something I thought Ken would find helpful, taking it from someone else perspective who has took or is taken the stuff. If you really want to know, go research yourself...To make it clear Nytol, this is not my opinion, it's first hand from someone who took it...behave yourself


Your opinion or not, you posted it as fact with nothing to back it up.


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Nytol said:


> Your opinion or not, you posted it as fact with nothing to back it up.


Lol, I never posted a fact, I posted an experience...regardless, have a pleasant day


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

lee85 said:


> Lol, I never posted a fact, I posted an experience...regardless, have a pleasant day


You too


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

ive been in the mental health system for almost half my life and have taken pretty much every type and class of medication that is used in psychiatry , i have also tried things that are natural such as high dose omega 3's etc but never B3 (altho i take multi b everyday anyway) , over the year my diagnosis has changed depending on what pdoc ive seen from bipolar type 2 /cyclothymia/dysthymia / atypical depression with chronic anxiety -the list goes on .

the only thing i will say is try *everything* you can , from medications to psychological therapies to natural remedies -its a long drawn out process finding something that works and unfortunatley some never find it.


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

nemo183 said:


> Hi Ken. Just visiting but saw your posts about depression and registered in order to make this post. I truly know how you feel being in exactly the same position myself. Nobody who hasn't had depression really understands how painful it is. And it seems to me that we all have our own unique version of the illness. I have tried every form of medication and none have helped. CBT made me worse.
> 
> I reached a point 12 months ago where I could not face spending the rest of my life with the pain I was in. I felt I had to recover by some means or other.
> 
> ...


Hi nemo183 thanks for posting, i am going to give the vitamins a good month or two and see how i go on these, some of the treatment you mentioned in your post sound quite scary, good luck for the future mate, it's good to know we are not on our own going through this


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Vagal Nerve Stimulators are also used to control epilepsy & have gained interest/use for Depression.

I'll post some articles up when I have time to dig them up. I wouldn't really ascribe their use as high risk brain surgery though.

Deep brain stim is mostly done (in this instance) using Mag - Stim which is non invasive ....again I'll put up links later.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Some links:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/804311

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120726180305.htm


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks for this. I should have been more exact about this kind of brain stimulation. The operations, whilst lengthy, are relatively safe initially. The difficulty comes later on. There is the practical difficulty of needing the battery replaced every 4/5 years. The high risk element I mentioned was an increasing amount of data that has recently been published concerning the unpredictable nature of deterioration of the electrodes, that can lead to infection. As I understand, although this type of operation has a long track record of success with Parkinsons disease, for an unknown reason the outcomes regarding infection do not follow the path you might reasonably predict. Ie they are worse.

Mag Stimulation, as you say, is non invasive and as far as I know completely safe.

What would really help here is a copy of the NICE guidelines CG90. You can get it from your GP in the form of an a4 pink document. What's good is that it outlines what should be available and in what order. It might help people who currently feel stuck with a denigrating condition a basis to discuss their treatment with their doctor.

I think it says a lot about the members of this forum that this is one of the best threads on the subject I have ever seen, in perhaps the least likely place.

Thanks for the links. I will find a proper link to CG90


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

If you are reading this thread because you are suffering from depression and have got to the point where you have had it something and it isn't getting any better then please read this page where it outlines just about all the treatment options that are available.

http://www.national.slam.nhs.uk/services/adult-services/affectivedisorders/interventions/

You should also ask your doctor for form CG90 which is an A4 sized leaflet that goes into things in more detail. I can't find a suitable web version but you can visit the NICE guidelines website and they have various articles from short to 709 pages that outline the recommended treatment plans for depression under the NHS.

The NHS offer a stepped approach to treatment. If you have been struggling then you may just not be on the right step.

You should know that money might be playing a big part in stopping your recovery. Also, it is unwise to assume your doctor can be relied upon to always be concerned about your recovery. You need to manage your own plan and you can't do that unless you know what all the options are.

In brief, if your GP can't help you should get a referral to the local specialist service where you will be able to access better psychology and psychiatric services. They will have the ability to offer medication and therapy that your GP can't.

If you still aren't making progress they should then refer you to upwards to a national affective disorders team. They have the best people who understand depression in the country and access to every possible source of treatment going. They should give you a complete assessment which in turn will point to the most suitable treatment. It may be a different combination of drugs combined with the most suitable talking therapy. They also have access to ECT, Vagus nerve stimulation, deep brain stimulation and magnetic stimulation plus the ability to put you on research projects that look promising.

You should never feel like you have to just accept a deteriorating long term illness.

I have seen it said that a long term illness is likely to require a complex long term solution. The health service is designed to offer you a solution based around Cbt therapy and basic anti depressants initially because that's the most cost effective way of doing things for the majority of patients who have a short term episode of depression.

But if it hasn't worked for you then you must know what alternatives there are and have your own plans in place to encourage your health professional to start acting proactively. Once the basics have failed other treatments are far more expensive but you are still entitled to them. It's up to you to decide what impact your illness is having on your quality of life and that of your family and work colleagues, and also if things are stable or getting worse.

Don't allow years of your life to be wasted like I did before demanding proper treatment.

Good luck to everyone and thank you for the encouragement this thread has given me. I am afraid that this posting is far too long but do drop a reply or PM me and if I can help I will.


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

What's your description of depression anyone ?


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Excellent question, and hard to answer. My personal view is that all cases of depression are unique. No two people are the same. The NHS NICE guidelines describe the general symptoms for different levels, mild, moderate, severe etc. It's interesting to see how short a time they suggest it takes, given a set of symptoms, before the official criteria are met for meeting the criteria for depression. Most people who develop it don't seek help soon enough - in many cases they leave it for years, and eventually they only then go to the doctor when it is impacting on their lives to a considerable extent. By this time it is harder to treat.

The factors involved can include a genetic, environmental and life events element.

To answer your question from a personal perspective is hard because my diagnosis includes all of the above. Ten years ago I was a director of a. Plc and competing in Ironman Triathlons. This year there have been months when I haven't got up. (ten years ago I still had serious depression but was trying to manage it. Life was like a plate spinning act. The problem is that there is a limit to the number of plates you can spin and eventually if one falls off, the rest do)

The feelings involve fear, desperation, anxiety, emptiness, being trapped in a viscous circle and inwardly directed anger. The strange thing is that many times people know what is wrong but can't find a way out of it.

Depression is not just feeling sad. I used to get upset when work colleagues, after a bad day, would say "I'm so depressed about this". Depression is also not a trivial illness. It needs to be taken very seriously at the beginning. But who really wants to admit to having it, even to their GP?

Finally, it is very complex. I intended to make this post short but the more I thought about it, you can't describe it in simple terms. It's also true to say that unless you had depression, you have no idea what it's like.


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## Machine1983 (Nov 27, 2013)

lack of motivation to do anything, hopelessness


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## twc_rm (Sep 3, 2010)

In my case I'd describe my depression very much related to finding out that my dad was not actually my biological father, and that my actual father was a disgusting and abusive man-as was his mother (my biological grandmother). This drove me crazy to the point where I believed I was almost destined to turn out like them even though I have never been a violent nor angry person in my life. In turn I pushed away my girlfriend, who was also a great friend for 3 years before, to the point where she will no longer reply to a text or look at me in person, due to me becoming an unrecognisable person.

Some days I am OK, where as some days I go deep into almost an 'empty' feeling where I realise what I have lost, because of me not being able to handle the situation which was presented to me. All day I'll think about what I could of done better, that I'm going nowhere, that I'll never find a person like her again. Most importantly though, I look back and hate the person I became, I feel like it has tainted me and I can't get rid of it- like I was a completely different person and now I have to live with what I threw away. It's honestly hard to describe but I feel like there is nothing out there for me anymore, and the best I can hope and do is see out the day and pray that some day I will recover, forgive myself and move on, but that day isn't anywhere near just yet, and this has being going on for almost 3 year.

Just got to keep pushing and pulling through, and more importantly appreciating how lucky we are to be alive at the end of the day. My biggest fear is that I'm wasting the little time I have on this planet by feeling so empty and unhappy because of a bad period. Won't give up like, better days to come.


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi machine183, it took me a page to say what you managed in a line.......


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## LeVzi (Nov 18, 2013)

I have had it bad for the last 16 years, and the best thing i've ever used that's helped, is in fact Test ! ! ! All the time i've been on it, it's lifted me out of the slump.


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

That's interesting Levzi. What kind of dose? How long have you been on it? How quickly did you notice the effect?


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

@nemo183

Very interesting description of depression from yourself and very honest. I have all the same feelings too but one I've recently noticed I'm suffering from badly is what you mentioned as 'inwardly directed anger'. This is something I'm getting a lot of and it's causing me to be very aggressive towards others.

You mention fear which I feel a lot, but at times due to my inwardly directed anger I'm extremely wreckless. I work in security and have thrown myself into 2 real bad situations this weekend and not given a sh1t about what could happen to me, something I wouldn't have ever done in the past, it's like I almost want something bad to happen and sometimes get so angry I feel no fear whatsoever.

One of my other problems I have which is making me very sad, is I feel very incapable of feeling love. I have a son and a close bond with my dad, and a great girlfriend but sometimes I feel no love for them at all. It's horrendous even mentioning it as I know I love them very much but some days just feel nothing. Those are the dangerous days when I could quite happily harm myself.


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## Steviant (Sep 6, 2013)

Depression is an unfortunate name for the condition really, since it covers such a wide group of disorders and symptoms, including manic phases, which don't fit with the popular image of someone who is "depressed".

From personal experience I would say that depression (or anxiety) can affect anyone. Previously I would have considered myself if not immune, then highly unlikely to have that type of problem. The situation that caused was not the most stressful or difficult when looked at objectively, but in the event was difficult for me to deal with in a productive way.

I found that my GP was enormously helpful and extremely sympathetic. I am aware though that some practitioners (and some patients) are probably too quick to look to medication, partly through inclination and partly through resource.

Anyone who is worried, go and see your GP, as Nemo 183 says, it's often left until it has a serious grip, when it's harder to treat. It won't make you less of a man, and it doesn't mean you're crazy.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Machine1983;4675889]Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off[/quote

Im not surprised as after reading some your threads you've made me depressed to now


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Been taking 3200mg no flush niacin and 500mg of magnesium for 5 days now, I can't really get over how much better I feel. I had numerous suicidal thoughts each day and didn't converse much with anyone.

I've now had no bad thoughts and I am much more chatty. Biggest thing for me is not having my own voice going round and round in my head and thinking stupid thoughts. I hope this continues because I feel like a new man and much more confident.

@Nytol thank you for offering this advise. I never knew of it before

I also watched the film documentary 'food matters' and this has made me make significant changes to my diet, I'm swaying away from the old bodybuilding diet and more towards a much more nutritionally balanced diet with the inclusion of huge amounts of fruit and veg blended raw.

Here's to hoping this continues and my advice to anyone else suffering is to try it.


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## SwoleNerd (Dec 13, 2013)

Thought I would share an issue that causes my depression to get worse and is relevant in a bodybuilding forum I guess which is over training.

After 8-10 weeks solid training my depression can get really bad which is ironic as I started lifting as a coping tool but it's due to CNS fatigue so now I make sure to take a week off every 6-8 weeks and making an effort to look out for the signs of it starting.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

JR8908 said:


> Been taking 3200mg no flush niacin and 500mg of magnesium for 5 days now, I can't really get over how much better I feel. I had numerous suicidal thoughts each day and didn't converse much with anyone.
> 
> I've now had no bad thoughts and I am much more chatty. Biggest thing for me is not having my own voice going round and round in my head and thinking stupid thoughts. I hope this continues because I feel like a new man and much more confident.
> 
> ...


Reading that brought a big smile to my face 

I am so pleased to hear you have benefitted.

By not having that irrational and overwhelming stress and anxiety, you can start to consciously work on any behaviours which may not be of optimal benefit to you.

If you want to read more about the food/mind thing, have a look at 'The Ultra Mind Solution'.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2013)

I was depressed last time I took tren, circumstances aren't any different now I'm off it but I'm not depressed anymore

I'm very unhappy but I know it's only for the next six months


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

MattTwoWheels said:


> I was depressed last time I took tren, circumstances aren't any different now I'm off it but I'm not depressed anymore
> 
> I'm very unhappy but I know it's only for the next six months


Tren 100% affects most people in one way or another, normal tren makes me a very nasty person, but Methyltrienolone, (M-tren) made me massively depressed within a week of starting it each time I tried.

I strongly feel that us people prone to these feelings should stay away from such things.

Why six months mate?


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nytol said:


> Tren 100% affects most people in one way or another, normal tren makes me a very nasty person, but Methyltrienolone, (M-tren) made me massively depressed within a week of starting it each time I tried.
> 
> I strongly feel that us people prone to these feelings should stay away from such things.
> 
> Why six months mate?


I'm prone to depression, but the tren doesn't bring it out. As you know it does have other profound effects on me psychologically however when run at a high enough dosage


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

SwoleNerd said:


> I make sure to take a week off every 6-8 weeks.


Interesting - I've generally found that 6-8 weeks is as long as I will make consistent progress from full-on training, and if I try to go any further, I'll invariably stall on progress or just start feeling really jaded.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Leeds89 said:


> I'm prone to depression, but the tren doesn't bring it out. As you know it does have other profound effects on me psychologically however when run at a high enough dosage


That is what I meant, it f*cks us up in one way or another.

I did find that behaving like a pr1ck on tren, then feeling remorseful, sent me into a deep depression at times, so even though the tren did not chemically make me depressed, it was still the cause at times.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2013)

Nytol said:


> Tren 100% affects most people in one way or another, normal tren makes me a very nasty person, but Methyltrienolone, (M-tren) made me massively depressed within a week of starting it each time I tried.
> 
> I strongly feel that us people prone to these feelings should stay away from such things.
> 
> Why six months mate?


I'm at uni far away from home and I hate it

Genuinely hate it! North Wales is such a boring place when you've been brought up in Manchester


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Machine1983 said:


> Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off


A month...he lasted longer than I thought he would!


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Nytol said:


> Reading that brought a big smile to my face
> 
> I am so pleased to hear you have benefitted.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. I've smiled and laughed for the first time in nearly a year this week. My head just feels clearer now and I can focus on things and feel a bit more motivated. Me and the mrs went through a miscarriage 2 days ago and I dnt think I could have dealt with it without this niacin and magnesium. I still feel headstrong now given the circumstances.

I will take a look at the literature mate as I'm fascinated with how a healthy lifestyle and a good diet with adequate/high dose vitamins can help. Using 5g of vit c a day has helped a bit too I feel.

The advice you offered has been invaluable and watching the documentary food matter has inspired me to change my lifestyle and diet. Here's hoping it all continues, thank you.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

MattTwoWheels said:


> I'm at uni far away from home and I hate it
> 
> Genuinely hate it! North Wales is such a boring place when you've been brought up in Manchester


I know two people who went through similar things for the same reason as you mate.

It affected both of them deeply, and for a long time after they finished.

Is this your final year?



JR8908 said:


> Thanks mate. I've smiled and laughed for the first time in nearly a year this week. My head just feels clearer now and I can focus on things and feel a bit more motivated. Me and the mrs went through a miscarriage 2 days ago and I dnt think I could have dealt with it without this niacin and magnesium. I still feel headstrong now given the circumstances.
> 
> I will take a look at the literature mate as I'm fascinated with how a healthy lifestyle and a good diet with adequate/high dose vitamins can help. Using 5g of vit c a day has helped a bit too I feel.
> 
> The advice you offered has been invaluable and watching the documentary food matter has inspired me to change my lifestyle and diet. Here's hoping it all continues, thank you.


I'm sorry to hear about your loss mate.

A fiend of mine experienced a similar lost a couple of years ago, but just a few months later his wife was pregnant again and they now have a fantastic baby boy.

It is amazing how much what we eat/don't eat can influence our mental state. A few months ago I consciously decided to add wheat and oats back into my diet in an attempt to get more food in.

Not only did I feel physically bad, as I expected, but as the weeks went on my mood got lower and lower, even though external circumstances had not changed.

Once I became aware of the possibility that it could be what I was eating, I cut the wheat and oats again, and within ten days my mood was back to how it had been before.

Unfortunately if it is not a prescription pill, many don't even want to hear about it.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2013)

Nytol said:


> I know two people who went through similar things for the same reason as you mate.
> 
> It affected both of them deeply, and for a long time after they finished.
> 
> ...


How did it affect them? I get to switch for my final year to someone closer to Manchester  so just a few more months, using this time to focus on the gym lol


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

MattTwoWheels said:


> How did it affect them? I get to switch for my final year to someone closer to Manchester  so just a few more months, using this time to focus on the gym lol


Depression, anxiety, rec drug abuse, alcoholism, the last one obviously becoming a life long problem.

That is a great mindset mate, it is all about perspective, if you think it is $hit then it will be, and your mood etc will follow your thoughts, but even if it is less than ideal, you can focus on the benefits, (I love the accent on Welsh girls  and the scenery is gorgeous), and not get drawn into a viscous cycle of negativity breeding more negativity.


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## SwoleNerd (Dec 13, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Interesting - I've generally found that 6-8 weeks is as long as I will make consistent progress from full-on training, and if I try to go any further, I'll invariably stall on progress or just start feeling really jaded.


 To keep the progress going without needing breaks so often you could try cycling the intensity of your workouts. So for 3-4 weeks you go all out trying to make PR's and then have a back off week where you just rep out at an easier weight but no where near failure. Rinse and repeat.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

SwoleNerd said:


> To keep the progress going without needing breaks so often you could try cycling the intensity of your workouts. So for 3-4 weeks you go all out trying to make PR's and then have a back off week where you just rep out at an easier weight but no where near failure. Rinse and repeat.


I sort of do this - I'll ramp up the intensity over the 6-8 week period, then take a week off.

I quite like having a week off every couple of months, and I have a few joint niggles that benefit from the occasional layoff


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi Jr, really encouraging.


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

JR, I went through exactly the same kind of behaviours. I won't mention them for obvious reasons but I didn't give a toss about what might happen to me. I got into some heavy **** and just didn't care. I just got out the gear and used it. Could easily have got me seriously hurt or worse.

The relationship stuff is a really vicious circle. If you don't like yourself it's pretty well impossible to care about anyone else. All I can say is that eventually things got slowly better but there's still a long way to go. I think it's true to say that people who truly don't care about any thing that might happen to them are really dangerous. I know I was. I guess it lasted for about six months and then eventually I just ran out of anger. Just as well else I think I was capable of doing just about anything. Hang on in.


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## Jesus H. Christ (Nov 8, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I sort of do this - I'll ramp up the intensity over the 6-8 week period, then take a week off.
> 
> I quite like having a week off every couple of months, and I have a few joint niggles that benefit from the occasional layoff


It's funny, but one of my biggest challenges in the gym is actually not hammering myself into the ground; I always err on the side of too much rather than too little. Tried deload weeks, but find them agonizingly boring.


----------



## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

nemo183 said:


> JR, I went through exactly the same kind of behaviours. I won't mention them for obvious reasons but I didn't give a toss about what might happen to me. I got into some heavy **** and just didn't care. I just got out the gear and used it. Could easily have got me seriously hurt or worse.
> 
> The relationship stuff is a really vicious circle. If you don't like yourself it's pretty well impossible to care about anyone else. All I can say is that eventually things got slowly better but there's still a long way to go. I think it's true to say that people who truly don't care about any thing that might happen to them are really dangerous. I know I was. I guess it lasted for about six months and then eventually I just ran out of anger. Just as well else I think I was capable of doing just about anything. Hang on in.


Forgot to add what is I found most helpful was seeing a really good therapist once a week and just talking about all the stuff you mentioned.


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

nemo183 said:


> JR, I went through exactly the same kind of behaviours. I won't mention them for obvious reasons but I didn't give a toss about what might happen to me. I got into some heavy **** and just didn't care. I just got out the gear and used it. Could easily have got me seriously hurt or worse.
> 
> The relationship stuff is a really vicious circle. If you don't like yourself it's pretty well impossible to care about anyone else. All I can say is that eventually things got slowly better but there's still a long way to go. I think it's true to say that people who truly don't care about any thing that might happen to them are really dangerous. I know I was. I guess it lasted for about six months and then eventually I just ran out of anger. Just as well else I think I was capable of doing just about anything. Hang on in.


Good to hear it all came to a standstill for you mate I know how dangerous that type of behaviour can be. I couldn't care less if a car hit me or whatever else could have happened.

I can't stress enough how amazing this niacin and magnesium has been for me. I am still headstrong and feeling much much better. I will be honest, I didn't believe for one second some supplements could do this. My other half feels like she is with a new man and the man of old. Everyone around me has noticed a change. I sing to songs whilst driving again, laugh at people's jokes, just smile at things that are Supposed to make you smile. It's those little improvements that tell me I'm getting better.

I would like to hear from others on here what their experiences with niacin and magnesium are if anyone else has tried it.


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## MiXiN (Mar 25, 2013)

Aaaaaarrgh..... This is another BIG issue of mine.

Where's the Mental health subforum on here that was allegedly set up?

I CAN assist many a Man & Woman on this avenue, believe you me!


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## MiXiN (Mar 25, 2013)

...


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

JR8908 said:


> Good to hear it all came to a standstill for you mate I know how dangerous that type of behaviour can be. I couldn't care less if a car hit me or whatever else could have happened.
> 
> I can't stress enough how amazing this niacin and magnesium has been for me. I am still headstrong and feeling much much better. I will be honest, I didn't believe for one second some supplements could do this. My other half feels like she is with a new man and the man of old. Everyone around me has noticed a change. I sing to songs whilst driving again, laugh at people's jokes, just smile at things that are Supposed to make you smile. It's those little improvements that tell me I'm getting better.
> 
> I would like to hear from others on here what their experiences with niacin and magnesium are if anyone else has tried it.


Hi mate, I to have noticed a difference in myself, I am singing along to the radio, and even just bursting into song on my own, I am laughing out loud to things on the tv, I do not want to get carried away though, as I have been like this before only to fall badly back into a deep depression, a big thank you to @Nytol for putting me on these supplements

ps sorry for your loss mate


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Hi mate, I to have noticed a difference in myself, I am singing along to the radio, and even just bursting into song on my own, I am laughing out loud to things on the tv, I do not want to get carried away though, as I have been like this before only to fall badly back into a deep depression, a big thank you to @Nytol for putting me on these supplements
> 
> ps sorry for your loss mate


That is fantastic to hear!

You will possibly have the occasional down days, but from my own experience they will not be all consuming, and you can accept them for what they are, just a feeling which will pass.


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Cheers Nytol, i am going to run the supps for two months and see how i go, thanks again mate, hope 2014 will be the start of a new me


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Hi mate, I to have noticed a difference in myself, I am singing along to the radio, and even just bursting into song on my own, I am laughing out loud to things on the tv, I do not want to get carried away though, as I have been like this before only to fall badly back into a deep depression, a big thank you to @Nytol for putting me on these supplements
> 
> ps sorry for your loss mate


Amazing improvements given your previous posts and how much you have struggled with depression.

Please keep things updated mate as to how you are going with it all as I will be too. I think this can be of benefit to a lot of people suffering.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you as well as myself


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

JR8908 said:


> Amazing improvements given your previous posts and how much you have struggled with depression.
> 
> Please keep things updated mate as to how you are going with it all as I will be too. I think this can be of benefit to a lot of people suffering.
> 
> I am keeping my fingers crossed for you as well as myself


How long are you going to run the supps for mate


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> How long are you going to run the supps for mate


Permanently mate. No reason why not given the cost. No way I'm going back to how I was if the supps are helping me


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

JR8908 said:


> Permanently mate. No reason why not given the cost. No way I'm going back to how I was if the supps are helping me


I have read that high doses of niacin can be bad for your kidneys as well as your eyes, but i have just reread the article, and it says if you are taking statins, so i might stay on a little longer, good luck to everyone who gives them ago


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## Jesus H. Christ (Nov 8, 2013)

JR8908 said:


> I can't stress enough how amazing this niacin and magnesium has been for me.


I've never heard of this-does anyone know of a physiological mechanism that would explain it?


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## biggilb (Jan 30, 2009)

Hi guys, thanks for the involvement in this thread, brilliant to hear people benefiting after feeling awful for so long. I started niacin at 3500mg yesterday but still have a few questions.

1) At what point do people start feeling benefits (time wise)?

2) An article I read said that if niacin is failing to work, keep increasing the dosage until it does. What are peoples thoughts on this? At what stage would you consider an increase and in what sort of increments would you up it by?

3) I would like to add magnesium in to the equation but last time I tried magnesium I couldn't sleep. Has any one else had this? Is there any way around this? Maybe a specific type of magnesium or taking it at a certain time of day?

Great thread! Lets keep helping each other!

Sam


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Jesus H. Christ said:


> I've never heard of this-does anyone know of a physiological mechanism that would explain it?


DatBtru did give me some ideas on his site a while ago, but to be honest I did not really pay it that much attention, but if I come across it I'll re post it here with his permission.



biggilb said:


> Hi guys, thanks for the involvement in this thread, brilliant to hear people benefiting after feeling awful for so long. I started niacin at 3500mg yesterday but still have a few questions.
> 
> 1) At what point do people start feeling benefits (time wise)?
> 
> ...


A couple of weeks, it is not like magic, you just eventually realise that you don't feel as bad as you were, but me being cynical it took a few weeks more before I genuinely accepted it was so.

I got so used to feeling $hit that it became habitual as well as biological/psychological.

3200mg of niacin worked for me and continues to do so, so I can't comment on upping it, however many people have had good success with that dose, so start there and don't worry about things that have not happened yet.

Magnesium is neutral on my sleep pattern, but most other people say it improves the quality of their sleep.

I can only comment on the Mag Tab and the LEF's magnesium threonate, I've not used any others as they work perfectly.

When were you taking the magnesium and what kind was it?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

May purchase some niacin

Cheers for the good info @Nytol


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Hotdog147 said:


> May purchase some niacin
> 
> Cheers for the good info @Nytol


It is my pleasure to share mate, I wasted far too much of my life feeling bad.

Your avatar always brings a smile to my face


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

I been on the niacin and magnesium also since reading this thread. I've been pretty depressed for a long time and also someone who's adrenaline response flares up way too easily, this combo really seems to have put a stop to that.

Cheers Nytol.


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## twc_rm (Sep 3, 2010)

I've also been taking the supplements suggest by @Nytol and although I feel down sometimes, I must say I deal with it a lot better already. In the last couple of weeks I've found myself being able to handle situations much calmer where as before I would almost go in a panic which would exhaust. Thanks again for the advice


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

That is wonderful to hear, they allow me to make the effort I want to make regarding self improvement, but had previously been overwhelmed by negative emotion in one way or another.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I have been on sertraline for over a year now and want to stop taking it. I have lowered my dose but as I have done so my mood has also dropped. I don't want to be taking medication for the rest of my life but for me it did help. I might look into niacin, is it legally available.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

aad123 said:


> I have been on sertraline for over a year now and want to stop taking it. I have lowered my dose but as I have done so my mood has also dropped. I don't want to be taking medication for the rest of my life but for me it did help. I might look into niacin, is it legally available.


Yes mate, it is just a B vitamin.

I also used SSRI's for over a year, I'd suggest getting the niacin first, then try a reduced dosage once you have been using it a couple of weeks.

Can I ask how much you are on?


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## mark_star (Jun 14, 2012)

Nytol said:


> That is wonderful to hear, they allow me to make the effort I want to make regarding self improvement, but had previously been overwhelmed by negative emotion in one way or another.


I notice you take the no-flush, is that because you take them all at one time or is it more effective than standard?


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

mark_star said:


> I notice you take the no-flush, is that because you take them all at one time or is it more effective than standard?


No not more effective, just trying to take that much regular niacin would be really difficult for most due to the flushing and the discomfort that can bring.

Regular would be better as it has the cardio protective effects that the no flush seems at best to be inconsistent with.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I was on 50mg but have lowered it to 25mg.

@Nytol what sort of dose would you advise ?

@mark_star is there a sufficient amount of niacin in the multi-vit you supplied or would I be better adding in a pure nicin supliment along side my multi vit.


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## mark_star (Jun 14, 2012)

aad123 said:


> I was on 50mg but have lowered it to 25mg.
> 
> @Nytol what sort of dose would you advise ?
> 
> @mark_star is there a sufficient amount of niacin in the multi-vit you supplied or would I be better adding in a pure nicin supliment along side my multi vit.


no mate, from what I was reading you are looking at about 3000mg so you will need to add a separate niacin, I do some 500mg ones from Solgar


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

What is the "niacin flush" ? and what exactly is the cardio protective effect ?


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

I sometimes wonder what is wrong with my brain, if there's a chemical imbalance, or just some messed up wiring..

I can't say I'm clinically depressed, as do feel 'ok' half the time, but the other half I spiral into severe bouts of emptiness, feel defeated and beyond down. I get repetitive depressive thoughts, I analyze everything in my mind and take any detail that may have upset my in the slightest close to heart, and then start repetitively over-analyze that, again and again. When I'm in one of those bouts I can't bare to leave the house because I know it will lead to massive feelings of anxiety and self awareness, even just walking down the street to the local corner shop.

I don't have one single justifiable reason to feel that way, aesthetically I look allot better than the guy standing next to me, I'm in my late 20s, drink only once a week, I have a fiancee and two beautiful kids, I'm earning money, drive a decent car and live in a nice house.

I shouldn't feel like sh!t half the time when I know I have allot to be thankful for! It's sick! But I've just learned to accept over the last 15yrs that I'll always get these bouts, no matter what my circumstances are.

It's probably why I get overly addicted to whatever I get the slightest bit of enjoyment out of, it's prob my minds way of trying to keep that miserable cnut feely happy for 2mins :-/


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Archaic said:


> I sometimes wonder what is wrong with my brain, if there's a chemical imbalance, or just some messed up wiring..
> 
> I can't say I'm clinically depressed, as do feel 'ok' half the time, but the other half I spiral into severe bouts of emptiness, feel defeated and beyond down. I get repetitive depressive thoughts, I analyze everything in my mind and take any detail that may have upset my in the slightest close to heart, and then start repetitively over-analyze that, again and again. When I'm in one of those bouts I can't bare to leave the house because I know it will lead to massive feelings of anxiety and self awareness, even just walking down the street to the local corner shop.
> 
> ...


Have you ever considered taking antidepressants or sought any help for this ? It sounds like you have been suffering from mild to moderate depression for a long time.


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## twc_rm (Sep 3, 2010)

What I have found @Nytol since being on the supplements you suggested (coincidence or not, I don't personally think so) is that I am realising what I'm doing and starting to correct myself, perhaps what I couldn't do before when I was in such a bad mental state. I'll be the first to admit it, but I have over the past year told white lies (nothing harmful, just about my day) to the people around me in order to create myself in a more positive light and prevent them from worrying about me. What I have realised in this last two weeks is that this isn't necessary, I completely think through what I'm about to say and have found myself being more positive and more importantly, natural. Whether this is just an overall positive mindset that's creating this I'm not sure, but I've found it very comforting that I'm in fact attempting to correct the small faults that I have, which I believe have developed from being in a depressive state. As I mentioned before, certain bouts of over thinking or over analysing I have had which would spiral me into a state of anxiety or panic and then result in a bigger negative state are no longer happening- I'm dealing with thoughts in a much more rational and calm manner.

The bottom line that I can say to anyone who is considering taking magnesium and no-flush niacin, is that the faults about myself and situations around me which brought me into a deep hole, are being corrected rapidly by myself and ultimately I am looking to the future in a positive light. Starting to learn that you are the most important thing you should get right first and foremost, your own happiness, are really helping me look forward.


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## nemo183 (Nov 30, 2013)

Nytol said:


> Have a read up on both things, but I take 3200mg of No Flush Niacin and 4 of these per day http://www.medshopexpress.com/081989.html
> 
> Other magnesium can work, but absorption is the key, I think bulk powders do a Magnesium Bisglycinate, which is supposedly quite well absorbed, but I can only vouch for the effectiveness of the Mag-Tab brand.
> 
> ...


Thanks for going to the trouble of posting all the details Nytol. I am going to give it a go as well. It can't do any harm. If it helps me then it will also have overcome my lack of faith in the science behind it, which doesn't help.

I should explain that over the last 25 years I have become somewhat jaded by well meaning people offering advice on how to help my disabled son's condition using off the wall products.

Anyway, wish me luck. Ironically my referral to the Affective disorders unit arrived today. It was originally applied for in 2008.

By the way, I agree with your views on medication. I am hoping that the ADU have access to rTMS. It seems to offer the best way forward for me. Failing that I will try and have it privately. It's not cheap and the money will be hard to find. But I also know I can't face living out the rest of my life as I am. I am lucky in that I never get suicidal thoughts but that would be grim.


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## bukket (Jul 26, 2013)

hi nytol

I cant seem the find Mag-Tab SR Caplets - 100 Caplets on any British sites. Can you recommend an alternative brand?

Thanks in advance


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## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

If I don't take a magnesium supplement, I get anxiety and depression. Mag glycinate I now take. I first read about this about 3 years ago and it proves itself correct everytime I go through a period of eating rubbish and no supplementation. If I take 600mgs of mag glycinate before I go to bed I wake up in a good mood, as opposed to dreading going to workif I don't.


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## gymjim (Feb 1, 2009)

Im currently taking GABA... helps makes me relaxed as im always on edge.

Ive looked at the symptoms for depression for years and ive matched them all, but still i will not seek help as i cant convince myself, yet all the symptoms i have read has singalled depression..... Convinced ive got bi-polar though, just dont want to it proven!


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## boomer411 (Jan 4, 2014)

The fact that you recognize your depression is a great start. Depression can be a serious condition, have you thought about therapy?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> I'm being 100% honest when I say that I only suffer depression when OFF cycle.
> 
> Solution - stay on cycle. Worked wonders for me, wouldn't dream of going back to the state I was in before.


x2

Although this is a big decision and not one to be taken lightly. It has worked wonders for me but this may not be the cure for everyone.


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Does this niacin and magnesium work well? I'm thinking of buying some as I've suffered from anxiety and depression as long as I can remember


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## bukket (Jul 26, 2013)

Shaun84 said:


> Does this niacin and magnesium work well? I'm thinking of buying some as I've suffered from anxiety and depression as long as I can remember


i've just started taking both, i will report back in a week or two on the results


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

stuey99 said:


> x2
> 
> Although this is a big decision and not one to be taken lightly. It has worked wonders for me but this may not be the cure for everyone.


Annoying thing is I'm 24 and considering staying on for good because of this. I'm thinking B+C with HCG should keep me fertile long enough to have kids.

Truthfully I'm not too bothered about the potential negative effects on my health, very few people will understand, but Id take death over the way I used to feel any day


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Annoying thing is I'm 24 and considering staying on for good because of this. I'm thinking B+C with HCG should keep me fertile long enough to have kids.
> 
> Truthfully I'm not too bothered about the potential negative effects on my health, very few people will understand, but Id take death over the way I used to feel any day


I totally understand mate...you've read my thread in the aas section yeah? You need to do what's best for your sanity, but do it as safely as possible. If you do stay on for quality of life reasons then you want that life to be a long one. Steroids have transformed my life in ways that only someone like yourself can fully understand.

Pm me for support or advise anytime mate, my door is always open!!


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## pieball (Mar 4, 2008)

Machine1983 said:


> Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off


Mate I've been depressed for years now have OCD its pure pish .been on anti d's for years came off them a few times had to change pills now on 60mg of fluoxetine for OCD and depression, it's made me the man I am tho my OCD has made me better at my job and the depression has kept me away from alcohol so there's always a positive side


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## tyke1 (Dec 17, 2010)

OCD is a bitch. I am back on paroxetine for anxiety and depression. Looking into doing my first cycle but the OCD seems to hold me back with it. Always seem to worry about things.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

bukket said:


> hi nytol
> 
> I cant seem the find Mag-Tab SR Caplets - 100 Caplets on any British sites. Can you recommend an alternative brand?
> 
> Thanks in advance


No, you have to order the Mag Tab from the US unfortunately.

But you could try the glycinate as mentioned bellow.



digitalis said:


> If I don't take a magnesium supplement, I get anxiety and depression. Mag glycinate I now take. I first read about this about 3 years ago and it proves itself correct everytime I go through a period of eating rubbish and no supplementation. If I take 600mgs of mag glycinate before I go to bed I wake up in a good mood, as opposed to dreading going to workif I don't.


That is really good and interesting to hear.

I know many will be sceptical as it is just a supplement, but with the fact it is so cheap and easy to get everyone should give it a try.


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## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

Nytol said:


> No, you have to order the Mag Tab from the US unfortunately.
> 
> But you could try the glycinate as mentioned bellow.
> 
> ...


It definitely makes a difference, to me at least.

You are correct when you state there is skepticism towards it, but I think that's in large part to a population conditioned to believe that the only remedy to depression is via medication. Which, coincidentally just so happens to dovetail perfectly with Big Pharma's aim of selling/prescribing more medication. I have a mate who got sectioned when shortly after he got put on Prozac, and he isn't the only one.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

digitalis said:


> It definitely makes a difference, to me at least.
> 
> You are correct when you state there is skepticism towards it, but I think that's in large part to a population conditioned to believe that the only remedy to depression is via medication. Which, coincidentally just so happens to dovetail perfectly with Big Pharma's aim of selling/prescribing more medication. I have a mate who got sectioned when shortly after he got put on Prozac, and he isn't the only one.


I agree.


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## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

tyke1 said:


> OCD is a bitch. I am back on paroxetine for anxiety and depression. Looking into doing my first cycle but the OCD seems to hold me back with it. Always seem to worry about things.


How do you find Paroxetine?, I've been on it for about 18months tried to come of it slowly once and the withdrawals were horrible!


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## tyke1 (Dec 17, 2010)

Sub-Zero said:


> How do you find Paroxetine?, I've been on it for about 18months tried to come of it slowly once and the withdrawals were horrible!


Tbh I don't thinks it's doing much for at all. Feel no different. Still been having bad thoughts. What dose were you on?


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## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

tyke1 said:


> Tbh I don't thinks it's doing much for at all. Feel no different. Still been having bad thoughts. What dose were you on?


I'm on 20mg per day.

The thing with the bad thoughts is that they will continue to happen as you've created a habit of thinking that way. You need to accept these thoughts and not try and push them away as thats when these thoughts stick.

Learn to let the thoughts come and go as they please, don't give them any importance as thats what will give them their power. I know this is alot easier said then done, but it gets easier with practice.

Rememeber they're just thoughts brought on by an anxious mind.


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## tyke1 (Dec 17, 2010)




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## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)




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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

I've been on niacin and magnesium bisglycinate for a month now and still going fairly strong. I have had some bad days here and there but nothing like they used to be. Life is manageable now, libido has even come back a little bit.

I'm finding having bad days with diet and eating bread can set me back a little bit but in general I'm feeling much better. Bad thoughts sometimes creep in but they pass much easier and I don't ponder over the thoughts for any length of time now.


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## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Just came across this thread, I was last year diagnosed with intrusive thought OCD, the fear got to the point that I was telling my wife I had to leave the family. Fortunately I was fast tracked (still took 4 months) one to one therapy through the NHS and was also put on sertraline. Still have the terrible thoughts but not ad often and trying to learn to live with it.

Frankly, it's good to know I'm not alone.

word or advice, tren and OCD don't mix!! :whistling:


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## tyke1 (Dec 17, 2010)

Been on them 7 month. Had them in past aswell as sertraline. Tried cbt, it dint work out. Trying to let the thoughts just pass is really hard. I get tangled up in them. I know the worries are false but they seem so real.


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## pieball (Mar 4, 2008)

mph said:


> Just came across this thread, I was last year diagnosed with intrusive thought OCD, the fear got to the point that I was telling my wife I had to leave the family. Fortunately I was fast tracked (still took 4 months) one to one therapy through the NHS and was also put on sertraline. Still have the terrible thoughts but not ad often and trying to learn to live with it.
> 
> Frankly, it's good to know I'm not alone.
> 
> word or advice, tren and OCD don't mix!! :whistling:


I have them intrusive thoughts too I've had it from my teens now I just accept them dosent bother me now


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## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Good way to be.


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## pieball (Mar 4, 2008)

been on 60mg fluoxetine for a few years now for OCD but over the last year been getting depressed and not wanting to do anything but lie down, was at the docs today she didn't seen to want to change my tablets trying talking me into cbt which I already done about 8 years ago I told her I didn't need to talk to anyone,so I've to cut down my fluoxetine over 2 weeks then go back and get changed, but she told me there is no other tablets for OCD this can't be true if you guys are on different stuff


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## pieball (Mar 4, 2008)

Sub-Zero said:


> I'm on 20mg per day.
> 
> The thing with the bad thoughts is that they will continue to happen as you've created a habit of thinking that way. You need to accept these thoughts and not try and push them away as thats when these thoughts stick.
> 
> ...


20mg of what


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## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

pieball said:


> 20mg of what


Paroxetine


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Anymore updates on people who have started taking the niacin & magnesium? Is it having any effect?


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## buzzzbar (Sep 17, 2009)

Following nytol's recommendation of niacin and magnesium, I've bought both. I've been taking 3200mg of niacin every day for about a week. I feel more relaxed but it's early days yet so will report back when more time has passed.

I can't yet comment on the magnesium as I'm still waiting for it be delivered, hoping it'll arrive next week because that is supposed to be the real game changer and I have high hopes 

Stay strong


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Shaun84 said:


> Anymore updates on people who have started taking the niacin & magnesium? Is it having any effect?


Depression is hugely under control, barely any bad thoughts, have the odd bad day, but generally feel like 90% of my depression has lifted.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

JR8908 said:


> Depression is hugely under control, barely any bad thoughts, have the odd bad day, but generally feel like 90% of my depression has lifted.


Where did you buy it from (link please)


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

ewen said:


> Where did you buy it from (link please)


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000QISSPU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1390063415&sr=8-1π=AC_SX110_SY165


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Constant battle with depression here. Probably think about suicide most days for a long long time.

Very difficult to talk about. suffer from OCD and anxiety. spoke about it in another thread and @Sambuca gave me a link for some audio books so gonna try those.


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

ewen said:


> Where did you buy it from (link please)


Also use this mate @ 500mg a day

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/magnesium-bisglycinate-tablets.html


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

JR8908 said:


> Also use this mate @ 500mg a day
> 
> http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/magnesium-bisglycinate-tablets.html


Thanks , I use magnesium will cross ref see what difference is , thanks again buddy .


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Kennyken said:


> Constant battle with depression here. Probably think about suicide most days for a long long time.
> 
> Very difficult to talk about. suffer from OCD and anxiety. spoke about it in another thread and @Sambuca gave me a link for some audio books so gonna try those.


This is bad to hear mate.

Have you spoken to your go about cognitive behvioural therapy?


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Kennyken

Had no idea mate...it's dreadful I know. I guess you've tried CBT? That helped me immensely, but with 'another problem'...which in turn helped me cope.

Look after yourself.


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> This is bad to hear mate.
> 
> Have you spoken to your go about cognitive behvioural therapy?


It doesnt seem to be bad to me because ive grown up with it, its all im used too. dont think i could actually go through with it as i have a little boy now.

i wouldnt know where to start with cognitive behvioural therapy mate my doctors are useless


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

latblaster said:


> @Kennyken
> 
> Had no idea mate...it's dreadful I know. I guess you've tried CBT? That helped me immensely, but with 'another problem'...which in turn helped me cope.
> 
> Look after yourself.


no treatment at all. i bought some horny goat weed as i heard that helps but didnt take them all.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Kennyken said:


> no treatment at all. i bought some horny goat weed as i heard that helps but didnt take them all.


Get to another gp mate. Tell them how u feel and do not take no as an answer


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

talking about it to strangers (ie ukmuscle) actually helps tbh!

Too embarrassed to talk to drs or friends and family


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

I definitely have problems with depression. Starting to beat it though, through generally leading a more satisfying life. I'd go as far as to say that my main problem is letting things tip me back into depression to easily. No drugs have ever made a spot of difference tbh.


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Greenspin said:


> I definitely have problems with depression. Starting to beat it though, through generally leading a more satisfying life. I'd go as far as to say that my main problem is letting things tip me back into depression to easily. No drugs have ever made a spot of difference tbh.


any advice bud?


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Kennyken said:


> It doesnt seem to be bad to me because ive grown up with it, its all im used too. dont think i could actually go through with it as i have a little boy now.
> 
> i wouldnt know where to start with cognitive behvioural therapy mate my doctors are useless


You're the perfect candidate so mate...youve absolutely nothing to lose and can only gain.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

mixerD1 said:


> You're the perfect candidate so mate...youve absolutely nothing to lose and can only gain.


its gonna sound silly but im no good at talking and especially describing something that doesnt exsist


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Kennyken said:


> talking about it to strangers (ie ukmuscle) actually helps tbh!
> 
> Too embarrassed to talk to drs or friends and family


Don't be embarrased at all to talk to others. When I had Counselling, I told her more than I've ever told anyone else. She was so good.

The Samaritans are good to talk to. Life will get better.


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

latblaster said:


> Don't be embarrased at all to talk to others. When I had Counselling, I told her more than I've ever told anyone else. She was so good.
> 
> The Samaritans are good to talk to. Life will get better.


literally talking about here i feel myself getting teary  thing is ive got nothing really to be "upset" about. Just the only way i can describe it is a dark cloud over me and in the back of my head

Ive got the email address of the samaritans ([email protected] if anyone reading this needs it), might have to send them a lengthy email.

Fuking OCD is ridiculous too. i have to check everything so many times. The amount of times ive broken door handles and taps. 

Bad, bad times


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Send them an email....pour it all out. You really should start to sort this out with some help, it prolly won't cure itself.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Kennyken said:


> literally talking about here i feel myself getting teary  thing is ive got nothing really to be "upset" about. Just the only way i can describe it is a dark cloud over me and in the back of my head
> 
> Ive got the email address of the samaritans ([email protected] if anyone reading this needs it), might have to send them a lengthy email.
> 
> ...


How do you expect things to improve if you wont help yourself or take onboard what's just been advised to you?

You must like your depression.

Even if CBT only alleviated things for you, isn't it a fking improvement?

FWIW...Im not one of these people who think its a figment and have given advice on here to people before..but the first step to help comes from yourself.


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

@Nytol

Ordered the niacin today will get some magnesium tabs from H&B?


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

mixerD1 said:


> How do you expect things to improve if you wont help yourself or take onboard what's just been advised to you?
> 
> You must like your depression.
> 
> ...


point taken. easier said then done. Yeah was trying/hoping it would improve itself. like i said before up to quite recently i didnt think anything of it as ive grown up with it


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Tommy10 said:


> @Nytol
> 
> Ordered the niacin today will get some magnesium tabs from H&B?


H&B mag is pretty $hite, and over priced, the one from bulk powders the Det recommended would be a better choice.

With magnesium it is all about the absorption, H&B mag will likely end up in your toilet an hour after you take it, (I speak from experience  )


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Kennyken said:


> It doesnt seem to be bad to me because ive grown up with it, its all im used too. dont think i could actually go through with it as i have a little boy now.
> 
> i wouldnt know where to start with cognitive behvioural therapy mate my doctors are useless


i signed up to see a therapist through my local council website (kent county council) did an hour long phone consultation and filled in a form then two weeks later i was in therapy .

i was in a bad place mentally , i was a threat to others and myself however whilst in my first meeting it was clear i was not going to continue with the sessions as the environment and therapist was not right and if anything it heightened my depressive hatred , ive since not been back and recently been very low again and now im pulling through and feeling a little better day by day i know i need to seek more permanent help so that my out look remains more stable .


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

ewen said:


> i signed up to see a therapist through my local council website (kent county council) did an hour long phone consultation and filled in a form then two weeks later i was in therapy .
> 
> i was in a bad place mentally , i was a threat to others and myself however whilst in my first meeting it was clear i was not going to continue with the sessions as the environment and therapist was not right and if anything it heightened my depressive hatred , ive since not been back and recently been very low again and now im pulling through and feeling a little better day by day i know i need to seek more permanent help so that my out look remains more stable .


Best of luck sorting things out mate.


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@ewen

I understand mate about the therapist not being right, I've met a few who were very counterproductive..aka shite.

You just need to persevere & you'll find the right one. I was once in a very dark place emotionally. Now, I'm not...but it takes time.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

latblaster said:


> @ewen
> 
> I understand mate about the therapist not being right, I've met a few who were very counterproductive..aka shite.
> 
> You just need to persevere & you'll find the right one. I was once in a very dark place emotionally. Now, I'm not...but it takes time.


you just know when it doesnt feel right , thanks :thumbup1:


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

ewen said:


> i signed up to see a therapist through my local council website (kent county council) did an hour long phone consultation and filled in a form then two weeks later i was in therapy .
> 
> i was in a bad place mentally , i was a threat to others and myself however whilst in my first meeting it was clear i was not going to continue with the sessions as the environment and therapist was not right and if anything it heightened my depressive hatred , ive since not been back and recently been very low again and now im pulling through and feeling a little better day by day i know i need to seek more permanent help so that my out look remains more stable .


Finding the right therapist is not easy and can only be done with trial and error.

I saw quite a few, and I paid for all of mine privately so chose who I wanted, and even then some were total crap, (ironically the most expensive).

You should try the Mag and Niacin mate, I wish I had known about it 6yrs ago, I am positive it would have saved me, and others a lot of pain and heartache.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Nytol said:


> Finding the right therapist is not easy and can only be done with trial and error.
> 
> I saw quite a few, and I paid for all of mine privately so chose who I wanted, and even then some were total crap, (ironically the most expensive).
> 
> You should try the Mag and Niacin mate, I wish I had known about it 6yrs ago, I am positive it would have saved me, and others a lot of pain and heartache.


thanks , yeah im gonna give it a go , found an awesome new gym and training partner so that fills up some of my thoughts which is a step in the right direction , off out tonight so will get those tabs and powder ordered up tomorrow .


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

ewen said:


> thanks , yeah im gonna give it a go , found an awesome new gym and training partner so that fills up some of my thoughts which is a step in the right direction , off out tonight so will get those tabs and powder ordered up tomorrow .


If you were still down this way I'd give you the details of someone who helped me, and a few of my friends with issues, I have to give her a lot of credit for helping me to find my way out of the darkness.


----------



## Linc06 (Jun 23, 2013)

I've been on citalopram for years now. Just 10-20mg dosage. Helped take edge off anxiety etc.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Nytol said:


> If you were still down this way I'd give you the details of someone who helped me, and a few of my friends with issues, I have to give her a lot of credit for helping me to find my way out of the darkness.


that would of been good , i need to sign up to a GP so i`ll inquire and see what they can do , might not be as pushed for cash so i might fall lucky going through a gp .


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Linc06 said:


> I've been on citalopram for years now. Just 10-20mg dosage. Helped take edge off anxiety etc.


Generally I don't think SSRI's are great drugs, but Citalopram seems to be the best out of all of them for effectiveness and lack of side effects.

Definitely better for anxiety than it is depression.


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

Linc06 said:


> I've been on citalopram for years now. Just 10-20mg dosage. Helped take edge off anxiety etc.


I got them about 5 month ago but never took them , I had a light bulb moment when I took them out the packet

And thought WTF am I doing ? I don't wanna go on tabs ....and weirdly my mood changed , less anxiety


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Any ocd sufferers here too? X


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

ewen said:


> i signed up to see a therapist through my local council website (kent county council) did an hour long phone consultation and filled in a form then two weeks later i was in therapy .
> 
> i was in a bad place mentally , i was a threat to others and myself however whilst in my first meeting it was clear i was not going to continue with the sessions as the environment and therapist was not right and if anything it heightened my depressive hatred , ive since not been back and recently been very low again and now im pulling through and feeling a little better day by day i know i need to seek more permanent help so that my out look remains more stable .


I cant imagine what therapy feels like. Only what I see in films.

I remember trying to hang myself with my dressing gown belt. But couldn't when I was about 11.

Winter is def worse for me. Any attempt to make myself happy by changing things. Still doesn't make me happy.


----------



## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Kennyken said:


> any advice bud?


Find something that means something to you and pursue it - whatever it is. For me, I started training hard to get the body I want, I studied hard to get a place on a good degree as a mature student, I went to see a girl I met online from a tropical country and fell head over heals for her, and I play a musical instrument with the aim of continued progress in my ability to play it.

In a nutshell, I have positive things to work towards in my future. Sounds lame but feels like there's meaning to my life.


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

As Greenspin says, it's about setting goals & maybe not always achieving them, but to go in that direction.

Doing positive things.

Even now though, I can - if I let myself, have dark moments.


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## Linc06 (Jun 23, 2013)

Nytol said:


> Generally I don't think SSRI's are great drugs, but Citalopram seems to be the best out of all of them for effectiveness and lack of side effects.
> 
> Definitely better for anxiety than it is depression.


True, I've never had sides, apart from during the first few weeks.


----------



## Linc06 (Jun 23, 2013)

Tommy10 said:


> I got them about 5 month ago but never took them , I had a light bulb moment when I took them out the packet
> 
> And thought WTF am I doing ? I don't wanna go on tabs ....and weirdly my mood changed , less anxiety


Well as long as you feel better, that's the main thing mate. Hope it continues to do so.


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Linc06 said:


> True, I've never had sides, apart from during the first few weeks.


No delayed orgasm? That was the main negative for me.


----------



## Linc06 (Jun 23, 2013)

Nytol said:


> No delayed orgasm? That was the main negative for me.


Yep, but only for few weeks. I was like Paula Radcliffe. I could never finish.


----------



## Linc06 (Jun 23, 2013)

Ironically, thinking about Paula Radcliffe will delay any orgasm


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## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

Kennyken said:


> its gonna sound silly but im no good at talking and especially describing something that doesnt exsist


Kenny do you know of any triggers you have that set you off in a depressive state?

How long have you had the OCD for?

Definatley go and get some help, you've got nothing to be embarassed about.


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Kennyken said:


> its gonna sound silly but im no good at talking and especially describing something that doesnt exsist


The biggest breakthroughs I had in therapy, and I had quite a lot, were when something quite obvious was pointed out to me, so obvious that I did not see it for myself.

There is no magic, but sometimes we need an external view on things, this does not need to be a 'therapist', but trying to figure it out on your own, as I did for over a decade, is often futile.


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Sub-Zero said:


> Kenny do you know of any triggers you have that set you off in a depressive state?
> 
> How long have you had the OCD for?
> 
> Definatley go and get some help, you've got nothing to be embarassed about.


I don't know mate. My brain is too jumbled up. Xmas is proper depressing for me  and as silly as it sounds fb makes me depressed.

Ocd has been going on for years. My brain doesn't belive my eyes if that makes sense. I can check something 10 times but my brain wont belive it.

Suffer from anxiety big time too. From going to work to seeing mates. I could happily advoid people.

Where do I start with help?


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

Kennyken said:


> I don't know mate. My brain is too jumbled up. Xmas is proper depressing for me  and as silly as it sounds fb makes me depressed.
> 
> Ocd has been going on for years. My brain doesn't belive my eyes if that makes sense. I can check something 10 times but my brain wont belive it.
> 
> ...


You start by going to a Doc that will refer you to a pyschotherapist who deals with therapies that help with depression and OCD.

Try and make a list of stuff that makes you depressed, and then write out the stuff which you enjoy doing. Writing things down is great , as you can get to see the them rationally and realise some of the stuff that makes you anxious and depressed are pretty "silly".


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Sub-Zero said:


> You start by going to a Doc that will refer you to a pyschotherapist who deals with therapies that help with depression and OCD.
> 
> Try and make a list of stuff that makes you depressed, and then write out the stuff which you enjoy doing. Writing things down is great , as you can get to see the them rationally and realise some of the stuff that makes you anxious and depressed are pretty "silly".


Thanks mate :thumbup:


----------



## bukket (Jul 26, 2013)

update****

been on 3200mg no flush niacin and 400 mg magnesium per day for a couple of weeks now and i do feel better in general. Started to feel more positive with more "get up and go" if that makes sense

Can anyone recommend anything to take the edge of anxiety?

Thanks


----------



## HLG (Nov 13, 2012)

You need to take more tren.......


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

bukket said:


> update****
> 
> been on 3200mg no flush niacin and 400 mg magnesium per day for a couple of weeks now and i do feel better in general. Started to feel more positive with more "get up and go" if that makes sense
> 
> ...


Cool good to hear , I'm waiting on my niacin to arrive , where did you buy your mag?

What time do you take it ?


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

HLG said:


> You need to take more tren.......


Not a helpful comment.


----------



## HLG (Nov 13, 2012)

latblaster said:


> Not a helpful comment.


Your right i'm sorry


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## bukket (Jul 26, 2013)

cant remember but the brand is below

"doctors best high absorption 100% chelated magnesium"

i will try the stuff below next as recommended by nytol

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/magnesium-bisglycinate-tablets.html


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

HLG said:


> You need to take more tren.......


Wtf? :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Nytol said:


> No not more effective, just trying to take that much regular niacin would be really difficult for most due to the flushing and the discomfort that can bring.
> 
> Regular would be better as it has the cardio protective effects that the no flush seems at best to be inconsistent with.


I've been using regular Niacin for a few years to reduce pangs of seasonal affective disorder (wintertime is worst for me, short overcast daylight hours). It works very well, seems like a lifetime ago I was thinking all kinds of self-loathing madness. I use Quercetin and Cetirizine to antagonise Niacin induced flushing and these have eliminated all flushing discomfort, allowing me to dose Niacin a little higher. Here are the studies I found.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18831918

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2469708

Both are easily found on Amazon.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Conscript said:


> I've been using regular Niacin for a few years to reduce pangs of seasonal affective disorder (wintertime is worst for me, short overcast daylight hours). It works very well, seems like a lifetime ago I was thinking all kinds of self-loathing madness. I use Quercetin and Cetirizine to antagonise Niacin induced flushing and these have eliminated all flushing discomfort, allowing me to dose Niacin a little higher. Here are the studies I found.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18831918
> 
> ...


That is fantastic to hear mate, thank you for sharing.

So do you take the antihistamine every day to offset the Niacin flush?

How much Niacin are you using per day?

I am going to add a little bit of normal niacin into my daily supplements for the cardio protective effects.


----------



## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Just read thru the whole thread. I was first "depressed" at 17, I'm 28 now and it has destroyed my life.

I've lost friends, my partner, my daughter, my house, numerous jobs and the majority of the last decade to this horrible problem.

I also have OCD and eating problems, so have been passed thru various mental health sectors and tried every ssri there is.

I think it might be time to try these reccomended vitamins cos to be honest I can't face living like this another year.


----------



## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Wow. I have also just read through this thread. Depression is something that has affected me for most of my 20s, and for the last few years I have had bad anxiety too.

I use an sad light during these dark winter months, I feel it definitely helps. In the summer in the sun I am a different person, i have a spring in my step and am genuinely happy. It's not the best state of affairs given that I live in Scotland of course....

I have been on various antidepressants and have come off all of them. I was on mirtazapine for 2 years and weaned off it after I concluded I didn't want to be on medication. Looking back it made me even more of a social recluse than I am naturally. Plus the Brain fog and memory problems I had were no fun at all. Then the sexual sides too. I went back on in may '13 after a stressful incident and anxiety levels going sky high again, I dropped it again last month after (again) seeing that whilst it kept depression at bay I had no emotions or inclination to socialise. I was happy to sit in the house all day watching tv. That's not living.

I think it's correct to say that whilst some people definitely benefit from pharmaceuticals there is far too much reliance on them because of the huge amounts of money they generate for big pharma. They will never develop a 'cure' but only stop gap treatments which require constant medicating.

I am very intrigued by the experiences with niacin and magnesium. I have read a lot of very promising information of magnesium supplementation and it's benefits, especially with regard to anxiety which is my biggest problem right now.

I freeze in social situations, I avoid them (unless I am drunk) and never speak my mind or assert myself.

There has been a lot of very informative and helpful advice here. Thanks to all who have posted, esp @Nytol for the supp recommendations.

I will say one book which has been most helpful for me is 'the chimp paradox' by Dr Steve peters. It provides a useful model of how our brains work with regard to unwanted thoughts, feelings and behaviour. I guess it is along the lines of CBT.

Stay strong everybody.


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

@Conscript have you tried using a light therapy box for the SAD? This is a tough time of year no doubt. We all need sunlight!


----------



## twc_rm (Sep 3, 2010)

Sorry to hear that Growing Lad, from the little advice I can offer you from the mess my life was the last two years, I've been taking the supps that @Nytol recommended and I know I have been much better on them, too many coincidental things for it to not be them.

I think it's fair to say I'm more positive right now, than I was at any point during 2013 and for me that's a big step. Hopefully you'll find a positive reaction from taking them too. All the best mate.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Nytol said:


> That is fantastic to hear mate, thank you for sharing.
> 
> So do you take the antihistamine every day to offset the Niacin flush?
> 
> ...


I take both to counter the flush and control Pgd2 levels, primarly due to my ongoing battle with MPB tbh (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/), and negating flush at lower doses has allowed me to dose Niacin higher, which I feel has merit, in all.

I take 20mg Cetirizine everyday (am and pm split) and 800mg quercetin late evening, then 2000mg Niacin pre-bed with my peps (for synergy). Really don't notice any discomfort, unless my skin is scratched, raked or slapped..


----------



## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Conscript said:


> I take both to counter the flush and control Pgd2 levels, primarly due to my ongoing battle with MPB tbh (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/), and negating flush at lower doses has allowed me to dose Niacin higher, which I feel has merit, in all.
> 
> I take 20mg Cetirizine everyday (am and pm split) and 800mg quercetin late evening, then 2000mg Niacin pre-bed with my peps (for synergy). Really don't notice any discomfort, unless my skin is scratched, raked or slapped..  [/quote
> 
> ...


----------



## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Coming to the end of my two months on the sups, I don't really think that they have done much for me, ok I am not having bad thoughts like I was before going on them, I still get them now and then, but they are down by about 75%, I have just ordered 10,000 iu's of vitamin D3, plus some vitamin k2, you need vitamin k2 when you take vitamin D3, I would also say I am a bit more calmer on the sups, I still get anxious, and I am still depressed, maybe not as bad as before, but it is still there, I know I am not making much sense, they work but not as good as I thought they would, I will only find out how good they are once I have come off them, but then the vitamin D3 will be in my system, sorry for rambling on, good luck to everyone.


----------



## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Coming to the end of my two months on the sups, I don't really think that they have done much for me, ok I am not having bad thoughts like I was before going on them, I still get them now and then, but they are down by about 75%, I have just ordered 10,000 iu's of vitamin D3, plus some vitamin k2, you need vitamin k2 when you take vitamin D3, I would also say I am a bit more calmer on the sups, I still get anxious, and I am still depressed, maybe not as bad as before, but it is still there, I know I am not making much sense, they work but not as good as I thought they would, I will only find out how good they are once I have come off them, but then the vitamin D3 will be in my system, sorry for rambling on, good luck to everyone.


Although it sounds like you aren't where you would like to be mate at least do you feel that there has perhaps been some beneift with anxiety and your general demeanour? It is hard sometimes to really see what has made a difference because mental health is such a tricky area to get a grasp of. I mean our life situations and circumstances all affect our wellbeing but in exactly the same way our thoughts and our way of seeing things, our perspective on our experiences is warped by depression (and other mental health conditions) which in turn affects our behaviour and our life experiences.

What we think is what we will feel is what we will do. Or something.

It gets difficult to ascertain exactly what benefit certain supplements have definitely made sometimes unless there has been a really profound impact.

Let us know how you find the vit d3. I have ordered some myself aswell as the Niacin.

It is very interesting to see that simple vitamins (I think I read some B vitamins basically act as hormones somewhere) could be playing a large role in mental health. It makes you think about how our modern intensive farming methods and our lifestyles are resulting in deficiencies which in the past would have been covered completely by our basic diets. Because depression/anxiety must, in my opinion, be relatively modern diseases.

Of course our understanding of them is quite a relatively new development compared to other fields in medicine and diagnosis/increased reporting of their incidence has naturally increased with more awareness but still.

Anyway, it's always more motivation for the gym. That feeling as you've just finished off an intense workout, I usually get the tingles in the shower (without playing with the shower head...) I wish you could make that feeling last longer!


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Thorvald said:


> What we think is what we will feel is what we will do. Or something.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Spot on mate....think good & feel good. (mostly)


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

I was talking to a confirmed bi-polar fella yesterday...thoroughly entertaining and very interesting guy. Quite intelligent and well travelled/educated..excellent knowledge of history. A few lads who overheard some of the things he spoke to me about had a bit of a snigger till I told them he was a far more interesting fellow than they were....then he started talking about putting curses on people.z


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

@Nytol

Got my niacin and magnesium , couple of questions

Do I split the dose in to 3 ?

Is it ok to take while on anavar , I'm doing 100mg ed at the moment

I also take a multi vit , Vit C , fish oils and Glutamine ED

Is it cool to add the niacin / mag along with the above ?


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Tommy10 said:


> @Nytol
> 
> Got my niacin and magnesium , couple of questions
> 
> ...


I split it into am/pm just for convenience.

Yes, not a problem at all.

Again, no issue with any of those things.


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nytol said:


> I split it into am/pm just for convenience.
> 
> Yes, not a problem at all.
> 
> Again, no issue with any of those things.


Cool thanks


----------



## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Whoa, that niacin flush is something else! Feels like crazy sunburn and prickly skin...


----------



## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Finally got round to ordering some niacin and magnesium.

I'll keep you updated once it has arrived. Hope it helps me in the same way it's helped some of you with depression/anxiety


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Shaun84 said:


> Finally got round to ordering some niacin and magnesium.
> 
> I'll keep you updated once it has arrived. Hope it helps me in the same way it's helped some of you with depression/anxiety


Make sure to take the niacin on a full stomach mate. And if the flush is overwhelming pop an aspirin - dispersible works fastest.

Hope u feel some effect from the dupps chief.

Magnesium certainly helps me sleep which is no small feat after coming off the sedating sledgehammer that is mirtazapine.


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thorvald said:


> Make sure to take the niacin on a full stomach mate. And if the flush is overwhelming pop an aspirin - dispersible works fastest.
> 
> Hope u feel some effect from the dupps chief.
> 
> Magnesium certainly helps me sleep which is no small feat after coming off the sedating sledgehammer that is mirtazapine.


Cool mate cheers

Have the sups helped you much?


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## mozzwigan (Apr 20, 2012)

Machine1983 said:


> Anyone else suffer from chronic depression. i think iv been depressed since the start of my teens and cant seem to shake it off


i think drug & drink abuse started mine from my very early 20's im now 25, this year i quit drinking & smoking and i feel great I also started taking 5HTP tablets and they are working for me soooooo good m8, i feel way better now than i have in YEARS! i guess the no smoking and drinking are doing me real good but the 5htp are working great too, I have more energy and can think properly.


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi mate I've only been taking the niacin for 4 days so it's still early days. But I have read a fair bit of the science behind it and alot of very positive anecdotal reports both on this forum and others.

I feel it is giving me better pumps in the gym so far.

And as I said before magnesium helps me get a good 6-7 hours sleep which is of course a positive thing. Keep us updated with how things go mate.


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Same with you mate will be good to hear progress


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Got my niacin and magnesium. Any idea of what dose of each I should start off with?


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

@Nytol is the most informed on this stuff here, but here are my recommendations from my limited experiences sofar.

I suggest 500mg on a full stomach 2-3 times for the first couple days so you can gauge your response to the flush. If it is tolerable then you could up it to 1g each time.

What magnesium did you get mate?


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Shaun84 said:


> Got my niacin and magnesium. Any idea of what dose of each I should start off with?


Depends on what versions of each you got, but the doses are stated in the thread.

3000mg+ of niacin, Mag depends on absorption more than mg amount, if it ends up down the toilet then taking 1kg per day is not going to help.


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## Endur0 (Feb 1, 2014)

Had a quick flick through and I don't believe I seen recommendations for an Omega-3 fish oil supplement. I'm not talking about ****ty little Seven Seas capsules with about about 200mg. I'm talking about the liquid in a bottle that can contain 1500 - 3000mg of EPA & DHA per serving. Although I rarely feel seriously depressed, I do have a social anxiety disorder, and the best way to avoid a bad day is to make sure I'm on top form as soon as I get out of bed, and without a doubt that helps.

Since taking that supplement, I now whistle on the way to the shower in the mornings. When I look in the mirror and see my expression and see just a look of wellness, glowing skin etc.. I can just tell it's gonna be a good day!


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

I agree @Endur0 mate. Omega fatty acids (and with our western dietary habits mainly omega 3) can be very important for good mental wellbeing.The my protein flavoured omega 3 oil is something I have take on and off for the last cpl years. I am not running any just now because a) I'm broke and B) I am doing a couple of other supps and want to be able to ascertain what compounds have what effect if any on my mood and cognitive function. I have found that I am quite prone to the kitchen sink approach with supplementation so am trying to approach things a bit more tactically. 

Also it's good to hear you're keeping well and feel a real benefit from the omega 3!


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Nytol said:


> Depends on what versions of each you got, but the doses are stated in the thread.
> 
> 3000mg+ of niacin, Mag depends on absorption more than mg amount, if it ends up down the toilet then taking 1kg per day is not going to help.


I've ordered mag tab sr magnesium supplement 84mg and life extension no flush niacin 800mg. I ordered ones that some people have used earlier in the thread and had success with.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Shaun84 said:


> I've ordered mag tab sr magnesium supplement 84mg and life extension no flush niacin 800mg. I ordered ones that some people have used earlier in the thread and had success with.


They are what I use, and what I recommend.

I take 2 of each in the morning and 2 of each in the evening.

For me that dose works very well indeed, and I've had no need or desire to try more.


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## Shaun84 (Mar 7, 2012)

Cheers nytol I'll let you know how I get on


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

Well I have stopped taking Niacin supps now. I ran them for a couple of weeks and I know this isn't very long but tbh my depression was getting worse! I don't hold niacin responsible for this but also I do not feel that it helped me in that department either. I was taking up to 6000mg a day in two doses - it took a few days to work up to that, the first time I took 1g on an empty stomach I could've scratched my skin off with the flush.

I had to try something else thought because I was getting to the point where I was almost crying for no reason at work and in the gym. It's ****ing ridiculous sometimes! So I felt forced to take my mirtaz again which I had doiscontinued for 2 months. After a few days on that crap again where I could've slept for 25 hours each day and was completely spaced out and lethargic I remembered why I stopped them in the first place.

My current regimen for depression is Rhodiola Rosea. I will make a new thread about it because it is a fascinating substance!

Although niacin did not work for me it may well help others out and there is definitely no harm in trying seeing as it is very cheap. I wish health and happiness to everyone suffering from depression out there.


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

Thorvald said:


> Well I have stopped taking Niacin supps now. I ran them for a couple of weeks and I know this isn't very long but tbh my depression was getting worse! I don't hold niacin responsible for this but also I do not feel that it helped me in that department either. I was taking up to 6000mg a day in two doses - it took a few days to work up to that, the first time I took 1g on an empty stomach I could've scratched my skin off with the flush.
> 
> I had to try something else thought because I was getting to the point where I was almost crying for no reason at work and in the gym. It's ****ing ridiculous sometimes! So I felt forced to take my mirtaz again which I had doiscontinued for 2 months. After a few days on that crap again where I could've slept for 25 hours each day and was completely spaced out and lethargic I remembered why I stopped them in the first place.
> 
> ...


I've been on it for a few weeks now and really don't feel anything from the niacin , I felt much better on St. John's wart

And that pretty much kicked in under a week and I was happy and smiling and really relaxed , will finish the bottle though.


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

@Tommy10 I considered using SJW but went for RR. I feel better than I have in months right now - less anxiety, more energy, easier to stay positive etc.

Best thing you could do would be to finish the bottle and then you can evaluate what response if any you had from the stuff.

Good luck mate.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Thorvald

Sounds to me like you're going through some tough times mate...but nothing lasts forever. Remember this in the dark times.

Depression, the answer imo/ime often lies within. Medication - as I'm sure you know is not a permenant solution or indeed a cure.

For too long I was depressed, but it was only when I found a good Counsellor that I began to unravel what was going on in my head.

Have you had Counselling, it really does help & although there is often quite a long waiting time to access it, you'll feel some benefit.


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

latblaster said:


> Depression, the answer imo/ime often lies within. Medication - as I'm sure you know is not a permenant solution or indeed a cure.
> 
> For too long I was depressed, but it was only when I found a good Counsellor that I began to unravel what was going on in my head.
> 
> Have you had Counselling, it really does help & although there is often quite a long waiting time to access it, you'll feel some benefit.


Couldn't agree more, popping all kinds of pills and supplements might work as a crutch in the meantime but ultimately your goal should be to get "unravelled" (Coincidentally this is the exact word I used when I went for CBT/CAT!).

I spent from 18-24 struggling with depression but mainly severe anxiety. I found St John's Wort beneficial in the short term, but ultimately it was CBT/CAT (with some Sertraline to prop me up for 7 months) that completely turned my perspectives around. With therapy/counselling you get out what you put in, you have to be prepared to examine all your darkest fears and embrace the method, it's worth it though. For me now a melancholy day is a twice a year thing and I notice it immediately rather than being suffocated by it.

Have a look at mindfulness as well, I use it all the time now. As soon as your head starts spinning with what happened yesterday, earlier, a minute ago, what might happen tomorrow or the next day, how it's all going to pan out for the worst... Check into now


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Lotte said:


> Couldn't agree more, popping all kinds of pills and supplements might work as a crutch in the meantime but ultimately your goal should be to get "unravelled" (Coincidentally this is the exact word I used when I went for CBT/CAT!).
> 
> I spent from 18-24 struggling with depression but mainly severe anxiety. I found St John's Wort beneficial in the short term, but ultimately it was CBT/CAT (with some Sertraline to prop me up for 7 months) that completely turned my perspectives around. With therapy/counselling you get out what you put in, you have to be prepared to examine all your darkest fears and embrace the method, it's worth it though. For me now a melancholy day is a twice a year thing and I notice it immediately rather than being suffocated by it.
> 
> Have a look at mindfulness as well, I use it all the time now. As soon as your head starts spinning with what happened yesterday, earlier, a minute ago, what might happen tomorrow or the next day, how it's all going to pan out for the worst... Check into now


Are they called counsillors or therapists or what Lotte?


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Tommy10 said:


> I've been on it for a few weeks now and really don't feel anything from the niacin , I felt much better on St. John's wart
> 
> And that pretty much kicked in under a week and I was happy and smiling and really relaxed , will finish the bottle though.


Were you taking the niacin with 500mg of magnesium? The magnesium makes a massive difference. I stopped the magnesium and went downhill


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Thorvald said:


> Well I have stopped taking Niacin supps now. I ran them for a couple of weeks and I know this isn't very long but tbh my depression was getting worse! I don't hold niacin responsible for this but also I do not feel that it helped me in that department either. I was taking up to 6000mg a day in two doses - it took a few days to work up to that, the first time I took 1g on an empty stomach I could've scratched my skin off with the flush.
> 
> I had to try something else thought because I was getting to the point where I was almost crying for no reason at work and in the gym. It's ****ing ridiculous sometimes! So I felt forced to take my mirtaz again which I had doiscontinued for 2 months. After a few days on that crap again where I could've slept for 25 hours each day and was completely spaced out and lethargic I remembered why I stopped them in the first place.
> 
> ...


Interested to hear about Rhodiola Rosea. Heard it can lower cortisol which may be beneficial if your highly stressed.


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

mixerD1 said:


> Are they called counsillors or therapists or what Lotte?


It's interchangeable, I put both so people would be less confused... lol!

A therapy is a "curative process, rehabilitation or treatment procedure" and counselling is "professional guidance and advice". Essentially a good mental health psychologist will be doing both to try and help you fix yourself


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Thank you.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Lotte

Good posts. 

Are you familiar with Jon Kabat-Zin?


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

latblaster said:


> Good posts.
> 
> Are you familiar with Jon Kabat-Zin?


Cheers matey 

I wasn't but there's an hour long video on Youtube that I'll have to check out later. My main source for mindfulness stuff was my therapist and later this book;

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mindful-Way-through-Anxiety/dp/1606234641

Might not appeal to those who aren't a fan of reading though! So I'll be interested to see what Zinn has to say in this video 

Thanks for the tip!


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

JR8908 said:


> Were you taking the niacin with 500mg of magnesium? The magnesium makes a massive difference. I stopped the magnesium and went downhill


Yea dude ..


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## Thorvald (Jan 25, 2014)

latblaster said:


> @Thorvald
> 
> Sounds to me like you're going through some tough times mate...but nothing lasts forever. Remember this in the dark times.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. In all honesty I am not doing too bad right now, I am working full time again and have reapplied myself to training and eating. 

I won't take any meds again for sure and have a GP appointmennt next week where I will ask for some sort of therapy. Last time I requested a (re) referral to mental health services I was just put forward to an anxiety management class but tbh I didn't really fancy it and then got this job so I couldn't commit to the sessions. It was a group thing and the woman I spoke to during the initial assessment didn't seem too aware of the main symptoms I was concerned about whiich is depersonalisation/derealization.

At least if I can work on my self esteem issues which I can now look back and see that they have held me back my whole adult life with such a lack of confidence and not be depressed and so apathetic about life and stuck in a negative headspace I can work better with the depersonalized mindset. So I would love to try some course of therapy - I know some very good info was posted on this thread earlier and I will trawl back through to pull up some of the links which have been posted to treatment options on NHS.

I don't wish to hijack the thread, but I don't suppose anyone here has any experience of depersonalization?

I see mindfulness has been mentioned, I am currently (bit out of routine with it eeek) doing an online course of this. I can see that there may well be a lot of beneift to helping change my mindset and understand that a thought is just a thought etc through keeping at it. I find it very hard though - it seems to be in my nature to want to rush things through wham bam thank you mam style! I find it hard to just be still, an almost guilty feeling that I should be doing SOMETHING.

For now I will stick with R.Rosea but I don't expect any miracle cures anymore! Just a nudge to feeling a bit more able to relate to other people and hold a conversation would be nice lol...


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction, I find with doctors you get much better results out of them if you sortof already know what you need them to do (i.e: you ask for a referral for an assessment with a view to doing one on one CBT). While doctors don't like it when people have half a clue and think they know something, most respond well when you logically explain your need for something with good research done to back it up


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

I think the vitamin D3 I am taking is making more difference than the other two I was taking for two months


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## Amicus1968 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hi Nytol!! how are you? I live in Canterbury and I'm looking for a good gym as well as a reliable personal trainer to help me to be back on track again. I was trying to send you a pvt msg but I can't. Thank for your piece of advice.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lotte said:


> Sounds like you are headed in the right direction, I find with doctors you get much better results out of them if you sortof already know what you need them to do (i.e: you ask for a referral for an assessment with a view to doing one on one CBT). While doctors don't like it when people have half a clue and think they know something, most respond well when you logically explain your need for something with good research done to back it up


good advice lotte :thumbup1: , for CBT most will actually see an occupational therapist or care coordinator rather than a clinical psychologist (unless you have some very serious issues).

your area may also have IAPT services in its CCG that a GP can refer to directly for CBT/mindfulness/human givens etc - the waiting times for these are usually a lot shorter than a wait for an OT or clinical psychologist.

if you are looking for a diagnosis then its a psychiatrist you will need to be refereed to by your GP ( Psychiatrist = diagnosis+drugs) Psychologist = therapy , a psychologist cannot give a diagnosis tho they can advise a psychiatrist with one )


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## #93 (Oct 12, 2014)

https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

This was recommended on another forum I use, might be of use to some of you :thumbup1:


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