# Non-carb containing alchohol whilst on Anabolic Diet / Keto...?



## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

So I'm currently on the anabolic diet, day 8. Avoiding carbs and aiming to keep them under 30g a day, pref as little as possible. Now I guess on the 'anabolic diet' you're in a Ketogenic state, training your body to use fat for fuel. When you eat a high amount of carbs you kick it out of this..

What about alchohol? I.e. Pure vodka, obviously it contains no carbs, the calories come from the alchohol element. I appreciate your body will utilize the alchohol for energy before it does fat, but will it kick me out of a 'Ketogenic' state and ruin the diet?

There seems to be no clear answer after a bit of googling! Some say your body turns the alchohol into glucose, some say it won't kick you out of keto at all, you just have to consider the extra calories and the fact your body won't use fat whilst it's using the alchohol, but after that it'll be fine!

I ask because I'm meant to be out drinking tomorrow night, but it's not a biggy if I don't go out, but if I can without ruining the diet I'd be happy with that! ( Don't mind minimizing fat loss due to it, but don't want to ruin my state of ketogenesis or whatever due to alchohol ruining it!)

I'd be drinking vodka + diet coke or something else diet with no carbs! Enlighten me please!

Edit: To clear this up, I'm NOT on keto, I'm on the anabolic diet. I was just under impression that they would apply in the same way to this.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

booze will knock you out of keto.

Vodka or not.


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

WannaGetStacked said:


> *I ask because I'm meant to be out drinking tomorrow night, but it's not a biggy if I don't go out*, but if I can without ruining the diet I'd be happy with that! ( Don't mind minimizing fat loss due to it, but don't want to ruin my state of ketogenesis or whatever due to alchohol ruining it!)
> 
> I'd be drinking vodka + diet coke or something else diet with no carbs! Enlighten me please!


 dont go out.

The way i see it. If you are gonna pursue something, pursue it properly or just dont bother mate.


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md19.htm

Read that mate


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

mikex101 said:


> booze will knock you out of keto.
> 
> Vodka or not.


Can you explain why?



hsmann87 said:


> dont go out.
> 
> The way i see it. If you are gonna pursue something, pursue it properly or just dont bother mate.


You need to enjoy yourself at the same time though! What's the point in life if you don't have fun from time to time? I obviously won't go if it's going to ruin what I'm doing, but if I can do so without sabotaging what I'm doing then I don't see the problem! Hence why I ask. :thumb:


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

God said:


> Just go out and not drink...simples


Liquid confidence! Wouldn't enjoy myself if I didn't drink, as sad as it sounds !



Rekless said:


> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md19.htm
> 
> Read that mate


So if I read that right.. it shouldn't effect Ketosis, it'll just delay fat metabolism as the alchohol will all be used before my body returns back to burning fat. If that's correct, I don't mind that.. As I don't mind 'delaying' my fat loss to enjoy myself, but I don't want turn my body back to using carbs as energy hence ruining the last 8 days of eating no carbs. Am I right in saying that?


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

WannaGetStacked said:


> You need to enjoy yourself at the same time though! What's the point in life if you don't have fun from time to time? I obviously won't go if it's going to ruin what I'm doing, but if I can do so without sabotaging what I'm doing then I don't see the problem! Hence why I ask. :thumb:


Personally, getting rat assed, or even tipsy for that matter isnt the be all and end all for me in having a good time and enjoying myself. There are many other ways to, especially when on a diet.

Im on keto at the minute. And im not drinking. But once im a ripped up mofo and am taking a week off to chill before i start my bulk you can be damn sure that i will be getting through single malt scotch like whey protein lol



God said:


> Just go out and not drink...simples


Good call.


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Water it is then mate and the f00kers will try and charge you for it!


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

hsmann87 said:


> Personally, getting rat assed, or even tipsy for that matter isnt the be all and end all for me in having a good time and enjoying myself. There are many other ways to, especially when on a diet.
> 
> Im on keto at the minute. And im not drinking. But once im a ripped up mofo and am taking a week off to chill before i start my bulk you can be damn sure that i will be getting through single malt scotch like whey protein lol
> 
> Good call.


Everyones different though I suppose mate! I personally don't enjoy myself in Town unless I drink, just how I am!

So can anyone confirm this is correct:

If I stick to pure alchohol with no carbs - it WON'T kick me out of 'Ketosis', nor will it 'ruin' my efforts of the last 8 days.

BUT, it WILL stop my body burning fat for fuel whilst it gets the alchohol out of my system - and in this sense this could be seen as counter-productive.


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## suliktribal (Apr 4, 2010)

It's impossible.

By its very nature, alcohol contains carbohydrates because ethanol which is the alcohol used in beverages, has to be distilled from carbohydrate containing grains/vegetables.

All alcoholic drinks contain enough carbs to take you out of ketosis.


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

suliktribal said:


> It's impossible.
> 
> By its very nature, alcohol contains carbohydrates because ethanol which is the alcohol used in beverages, has to be distilled from carbohydrate containing grains/vegetables.
> 
> All alcoholic drinks contain enough carbs to take you out of ketosis.


Vodka contains 0g of carbs..?


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## spaynter (Jul 6, 2009)

But alcohol does not spike insulin, therefore not knocking you out of ketosis.

If you're in a ketotic state, then the body will burn alcohol preferentially to fat, but it merely delays the ketone production until the alcohol's gone, it doesn't switch you back to glucose burning.


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

spaynter said:


> But alcohol does not spike insulin, therefore not knocking you out of ketosis.
> 
> If you're in a ketotic state, then the body will burn alcohol preferentially to fat, but it merely delays the ketone production until the alcohol's gone, it doesn't switch you back to glucose burning.


Yes this is what I was asking. So you could say it stops Ketosis in the sense that for the hours that you've got alcohol in your body, your body won't be fueling from fat. But it won't replenish glycogen stores meaning that you have to go through the initial phase of using up such stores to get into Ketosis.. Your body will be acting as it would normally in Ketosis immediately after all the alcohol is used up.


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Only drink I've found with hardly any carbs (apart from vodka) is this

http://www.michelobultra.com/AgeGate.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fdefault.aspx&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

You'll be lucky to find it round town though.

Although I'm back to not drinking now so just take the car


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

You shouldnt be in ketosis if you are on the Anabolic Diet anyway....


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## rfc (Mar 23, 2010)

suliktribal said:


> It's impossible.
> 
> By its very nature, alcohol contains carbohydrates because ethanol which is the alcohol used in beverages, has to be distilled from carbohydrate containing grains/vegetables.
> 
> All alcoholic drinks contain enough carbs to take you out of ketosis.


I don't think you understand what distillation is - when something is distilled then the separate chemicals that make up the substance are separated as the substance is heated to different temperatures and the separate components boil off. When this is done several times it is possible to get very pure alcohol with no carbs.


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

It won't knock you out of ketosis. You won't be burning fat until the alcohol calories are burnt off though. The body treats it as poison and stops metabolising anything else until it rids itself of the alcohol. Stick to clear spirits (tequila is my choice) and you should be good. Double vodka monster ripper, if you want something to drink rather than shoot, kept me in ketosis.


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## spaynter (Jul 6, 2009)

Yep


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Rekless said:


> You shouldnt be in ketosis if you are on the Anabolic Diet anyway....


Surely you would be..? As you're body is depleted of carb/glycogen stores, so it's burning fuel for fat (until you carb up on the weekends). I'm on day 8 so havn't carbed up yet. Surely the state of burning fat is in a depleted carb state is exactly the same as Ketosis? Please explain if I'm wrong!

So if I go out tomorrow night I'll stick to vodka and diet coke, nothing containing carbs!

Thankyou for your replies. :thumbup1:


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## suliktribal (Apr 4, 2010)

rfc said:


> I don't think you understand what distillation is - when something is distilled then the separate chemicals that make up the substance are separated as the substance is heated to different temperatures and the separate components boil off. When this is done several times it is possible to get very pure alcohol with no carbs.


Yeah, just googled it some more and read up...

I was wrong.


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## suliktribal (Apr 4, 2010)

Rekless said:


> You shouldnt be in ketosis if you are on the Anabolic Diet anyway....


Aye, from what I understand, anabolism refers to a state of growth.

I'm pretty sure that keto diets' emphasis is on fat loss as opposed to growth.

Influx of protein, carbs, fats and nutrients....

I could be wrong!


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## brockles (Jun 23, 2009)

As i understand it alcohol will be metabolised into glucose(almost immediately) which will kick you out of ketosis.

It will kick you out quicker than a chocolate bar or anything else you would avoid on keto.


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

brockles said:


> As i understand it alcohol will be metabolised into glucose(almost immediately) which will kick you out of ketosis.
> 
> It will kick you out quicker than a chocolate bar or anything else you would avoid on keto.


Read through the thread. It seems this is completely wrong.


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

WannaGetStacked said:


> Surely you would be..? As you're body is depleted of carb/glycogen stores, so it's burning fuel for fat (until you carb up on the weekends). I'm on day 8 so havn't carbed up yet. Surely the state of burning fat is in a depleted carb state is exactly the same as Ketosis? Please explain if I'm wrong!
> 
> So if I go out tomorrow night I'll stick to vodka and diet coke, nothing containing carbs!
> 
> Thankyou for your replies. :thumbup1:


No offence but have you actually read up on the Diet?

you are having 30g of carbs a day (or should be) which keeps you out of Keto


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## S.hen (Jul 7, 2010)

Me personally I don't drink when dieting cos I can't face eating diet food when I'm hungover.

If you have no time scale to your dieting get out there and enjoy yourself


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## brockles (Jun 23, 2009)

Taken from Lyle Mcdonalds - The Ketogenic Diet

"Although alcohol intake has been discussed briefly in previous sections, its effects on ketosis need to be discussed here, especially since many individuals want to know if alcohol is allowed on a ketogenic diet. In general, once ketosis is established alcohol tends to deepen the level of ketosis seen. Additionally, the pathological state of alcoholic ketoacidosis (which occurs when individuals consume nothing except alcohol for long periods) is known to result in potentially dangerous levels of ketones in the bloodstream. Alcohol may affect ketone body production in the dangerous levels of ketones in the bloodstream. Alcohol may affect ketone body production in the liver and alcohol itself can be converted to ketones. As well, the production of ketones from alcohol tends to result in less fat loss since less FFA is converted to ketones. Strictly speaking there is no reason that small amounts of alcohol cannot be consumed during a ketogenic diet although it should be realized that fat loss will be slowed. Additionally, anecdotal reports suggest that alcohol may affect individuals more (in terms of drunkenness, etc.) when they are in ketosis versus when they are not. Care should be taken by anyone consuming alcohol."


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Rekless said:


> No offence but have you actually read up on the Diet?
> 
> you are having 30g of carbs a day (or should be) which keeps you out of Keto


Everywhere I've read says 30g or LESS.. The idea is to eat minimal carbs on non-carb days.. no where have I ever read you should aim for 30g. I think you've misread that somewhere! (Google it and read through all the top articles, they all say 30g or less. 30g is the LIMIT, not the target.)

I've gone from 185lbs to 175.8 in 8 days so far and can see results.. so obviously what I'm doing is working! I appreciate the majority will be water weight, but I've definitely lost some fat too. :thumbup1:


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

brockles said:


> Taken from Lyle Mcdonalds - The Ketogenic Diet
> 
> "Although alcohol intake has been discussed briefly in previous sections, its effects on ketosis need to be discussed here, especially since many individuals want to know if alcohol is allowed on a ketogenic diet. In general, once ketosis is established alcohol tends to deepen the level of ketosis seen. Additionally, the pathological state of alcoholic ketoacidosis (which occurs when individuals consume nothing except alcohol for long periods) is known to result in potentially dangerous levels of ketones in the bloodstream. Alcohol may affect ketone body production in the dangerous levels of ketones in the bloodstream. Alcohol may affect ketone body production in the liver and alcohol itself can be converted to ketones. As well, the production of ketones from alcohol tends to result in less fat loss since less FFA is converted to ketones. Strictly speaking there is no reason that small amounts of alcohol cannot be consumed during a ketogenic diet although it should be realized that fat loss will be slowed. Additionally, anecdotal reports suggest that alcohol may affect individuals more (in terms of drunkenness, etc.) when they are in ketosis versus when they are not. Care should be taken by anyone consuming alcohol."


That proves your point wrong? Also if you were implying it's dangerous, that articles state it is so if alchohol is consumed for long periods of time whilst on Keto... I presume that's a lot longer than a single night! :thumbup1:


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## brockles (Jun 23, 2009)

You do realise about 70-90% of weight lost is water weight right? Also it will vary form body to body how many carbs can be consumed to stay in ketosis. 30g is just a guideline which should induce anyone into ketosis. When i did keto i was eating between about 3g and 20g of carbs a day.


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## brockles (Jun 23, 2009)

Yea it proves my intial thought wrong mate. Yea one night out you should be fine, its when alcoholics just consume alcohol for long periods of time that they can induce ketoacidosis.


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

brockles said:


> You do realise about 70-90% of weight lost is water weight right? Also it will vary form body to body how many carbs can be consumed to stay in ketosis. 30g is just a guideline which should induce anyone into ketosis. When i did keto i was eating between about 3g and 20g of carbs a day.


Read above.. I stated I realise most of this is water.. I'm not even on Keto so I think I've caused some confusion here. But I'm aiming to eat 30g on less as this is the guideline for the anabolic diet which is what I'm doing..


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

WannaGetStacked said:


> Everywhere I've read says 30g or LESS.. The idea is to eat minimal carbs on non-carb days.. no where have I ever read you should aim for 30g. I think you've misread that somewhere! (Google it and read through all the top articles, they all say 30g or less. 30g is the LIMIT, not the target.)
> 
> I've gone from 185lbs to 175.8 in 8 days so far and can see results.. so obviously what I'm doing is working! I appreciate the majority will be water weight, but I've definitely lost some fat too. :thumbup1:


Taken from an interview with the authour of the diet Dr DiPasquale

NM: Whoa, let me back this up for a second. So what you're saying is, if one were efficiently using ketones for energy and lipolysis on a carb depleted diet...*it shouldn't produce a state of ketosis?*

*
*

MD: That's correct. If you've adapted fully to the diet.

NM: So it's not preferable to be in ketosis if the objective is fat loss?

MD: That's right. This is where I differ from everybody else and why the Anabolic Diet is so effective where others are not. Ketosis is very catabolic! First of all, *the Anabolic Diet keeps you at 30 grams of carbs* a day, five days a week. That keeps you out of ketosis, but the body begins to adapt to using fat for fuel. On the weekend, you can eat as many carbs as you like. That's the anabolic phase, but the body is still in a fatburning mode. Once there's a spillover of carb calories to fat storage, after no more than 48 hours, *you go back to 30 carbohydrate grams a day*. Basically, this is meant to be a diet that can be followed easily. Who wants to wake up at night to eat or spend each hour of the day watching exactly how many calories you eat? What's interesting is that I've found that triglyceride levels rise on the days when high carbs are ingested.

Yes you are right 30g is not the target, maybe i worded it wrong, but you ARE eating carbs on mon-fri, meaning you wont and should go into keto. If you do your doing it wrong


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

WannaGetStacked said:


> Read above.. I stated I realise most of this is water.. I'm not even on Keto so I think I've caused some confusion here. But I'm aiming to eat 30g on less as this is the guideline for the anabolic diet which is what I'm doing..


Then why in your original post are you asking if Alcohol will knock you out of Keto.....


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Rekless said:


> Then why in your original post are you asking if Alcohol will knock you out of Keto.....


I was under the impression the diet would put you in Ketosis during the week. Maybe this is wrong I don't know.


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## tonyc74 (Sep 2, 2009)

If you cant stick to Keto why not just go med/low carb high protein and low fat....as long as you are in calorie deficit and your doing cardio/weights you will loose weight?

Personally i would rather do this than sacrifice my social life


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm not on Keto, I'm on the anabolic diet! Tried low carb/low fat high protein, but I seem to do better on no carbs at all! Less cravings for them.


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## spaynter (Jul 6, 2009)

Quite right. Some people can get into ketosis with 50g some with 10g. The question is - what's the point of being in ketosis? You don't lose fat any quicker than if you low-carb, but stay out of ketosis. IMHO, ketosis is a red herring, and not particularly suitable for body builders. It can take 2 or 3 days to drop back into ketosis after carbing up anyway. Add that to the period of the carb up, and you're only in ketosis 50% of the time anyway.


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