# Anyone else use no supps at all~?



## lumberjack (Apr 26, 2009)

Was not sure if this is in the right thread or not?

But does anyone on here not actually use supplements?

They just eat right and train hard?


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 6, 2008)

You can eat all you want but if you're not using supps than you are going to be lacking... So I don't think you are going to have too many followers on this one bud.


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## kyle82 (Apr 30, 2009)

supplements are important... if your diet goes with lots of fruits and vegetables, supplements may not be needed.. but make sure that there is enough supply of energy in a daily basis..

tasty foods, holiday packages


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## Jayy (Jan 5, 2008)

Me and my mate where having a discussion about this. I think supplements are (as teh name suggests) should supplement your diet, but what about all the big blokes in prision? They won't be on any supps yet are huge


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## dan the man (Apr 1, 2009)

also depends on what u class sups as


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## HJL (Apr 26, 2009)

ive only just started using whey, but to be honest i only have 2 scoops a day. this amounts to only 40gs of protine and i could easily find that amount in some extra chicken.


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## dan the man (Apr 1, 2009)

overdosing on egg whites for example would this be classed as as supp


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## Rickski (Jan 24, 2008)

I go through phases but I don't use much at all really can sometimes have a few days without even a protein drink for example.


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

Jayy said:


> Me and my mate where having a discussion about this. I think supplements are (as teh name suggests) should supplement your diet, *but what about all the big blokes in prision? They won't be on any supps yet are huge*


you can still get roids in prison


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## Dandy-uk (Apr 12, 2009)

you can get as big as u like without steroids or supps as long as your diet it decent i personally eat wot iwant just not too much of it and make sure i get a decent amoint of protein maybe im lucky i seem to just grow


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

Jayy said:


> Me and my mate where having a discussion about this. I think supplements are (as teh name suggests) should supplement your diet, but what about all the big blokes in prision? They won't be on any supps yet are huge


You'd be surprised what people can get inside mate.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

when i had a milk intollerance i couldnt use shakes

tbh, food is best...if you can eat 5000+kcals a day without shakes then do so...it will be better


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## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

Supplements should supplement your diet, not form it. Still they can help and are relatively hassle free PWO etc etc


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## Harry Sacks (May 3, 2009)

At my worst i was taking abut 28 tablets a day, but got to the point where i didn't know which were working and which were junk, so now only take protein powder, bsn no-xplode, multi vit and cod liver caps


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i dont take many "bodybuilder" supps as to say no xplode etc.

only really take whey protein.

however i take lots of general health supps, omega 3s, vit e, vit c, garlic, zinc gluconate, green tea caps etc


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

Harry Sacks said:


> At my worst i was taking abut 28 tablets a day, but got to the point where i didn't know which were working and which were junk, so now only take protein powder, bsn no-xplode, multi vit and cod liver caps


Fish oil caps are a lot better than cod liver oil Harry, you know that don't you?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

im getting 500ml liquid fish oil on monday to give a try  much easier to get in a high amunt of EPA and DHA and is cheaper


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## Harry Sacks (May 3, 2009)

T.F. said:


> Fish oil caps are a lot better than cod liver oil Harry, you know that don't you?


Yeah, just finishing off a huge load i brought before finding that out, then gonna switch


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Nothing at all. No protein, pills or anything.A well balanced,hydrated organic diet.If you believe you require extra protein, to grow muscle, do the maths.All that is required is a slight calorific excess.(drug usage asides)


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## neildo (Oct 9, 2008)

How much for 500mls? Cant really beat 270 caps for 7.78 from tesco on their buy 2 get 1 free deal!


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

whats your stats essexboy? just curious as many of your posts go against the whole high protein, lots of meat etc diets


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

MaxMuscle said:


> You can eat all you want but if you're not using supps than you are going to be lacking... So I don't think you are going to have too many followers on this one bud.


well im one.if you can explain how food supplements can aid muscle growth , im all ears.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

neildo said:


> How much for 500mls? Cant really beat 270 caps for 7.78 from tesco on their buy 2 get 1 free deal!


per cap what is the EPA etc?

um i got it from myprotein for £7.95

per 5ml is

EPA (Eicosapentaenoic acid) 825mg DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid) 550mg


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

Nope, you don't need supps.

I just have a good diet and 1g of Test a week and i'm doing ok.


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

YoungGun said:


> Nope, you don't need supps.
> 
> I just have a good diet and 1g of Test a week and i'm doing ok.


:laugh: 1g of test will be helping a little though :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2009)

I have periods where i do not have any shakes ext for weeks during these times i also drop every thing like multi-vits and the tens and tens of other supps i take. This usually happens when i go on holiday or take a week off from the gym.


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## Nitrolen (Jun 7, 2009)

Supps are just that - they supp your food intake. The benefits of taking, for example - Whey, is that it is a very convenient post work-out drink.

I think the prob now is that food is more expensive then it used to be. Last year I was buying tins of tuna for 50p - now they're double that.

I know of a well known natural body builder, who didn't take any supps prior to a comp and still won it.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

who?


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## Nitrolen (Jun 7, 2009)

BigDom86 said:


> who?


John Heaton-I believe.

Here's a recent vid of him:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Dandy-uk said:


> you can get as big as u like without steroids or supps as long as your diet it decent i personally eat wot iwant just not too much of it and make sure i get a decent amoint of protein maybe im lucky i seem to just grow


i seriously hope that post is a wind up.........



essexboy said:


> well im one.if you can explain how food supplements can aid muscle growth , im all ears.


if you honestly cant see in what way the designer proteins etc available on the market these days can aid in muscle growth then i am flabbergasted mate.

For example look at a multi source protein powder,you have anything up to 6 sources of protein available in a single serving,timed release rates and a spectrum of amino acids a meal simply couldnt hope to compare to,thrown into the mix is usually some form of gluteamine,digestive enzymes,creatine etc etc

If nothing else you cant argue based on cost alone that something like this is far more effective towards muscle building than the likes of say a plate of chicken/rice/veg.



Con said:


> I have periods where i do not have any shakes ext for weeks during these times i also drop every thing like multi-vits and the tens and tens of other supps i take. This usually happens when i go on holiday or take a week off from the gym.


I'm the same Con,i have periods where i will just have down time from the supps,go without any at all for a week or two,its also great as when you start them all up again afterwards its almost copmparible to the start of a cycle of gear i feel.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

weeman said:


> i seriously hope that post is a wind up.........
> 
> if you honestly cant see in what way the designer proteins etc available on the market these days can aid in muscle growth then i am flabbergasted mate.
> 
> ...


 Hi Weeman.I did carefully consider whether or not to make that statement.I was aware that it may induce a response.

Let me begin by saying,that im not here to make enemies, or court controversy.if my post appears curt and, or arrogant, please believe its not my intention, it just my writing style.

Il adress your first point.Designer proteins that are available, im sure are of a very high quality.If you are using drugs then their value is obvious, as consuming enough protein from foods alone to maximise your gains whilst on cycle must be overwhealming!

However ,my post was directed at those who do not use drugs.The simple fact of the matter is that muscle growth is directly related to intensity of effort, and rest.Nutrition , is only of value (and not significantly) after those requirements are met.its simple physiology.Lets assume we can naturally gain ten pounds of lean muscle in 12 months.A pound of muscle contains appox 600 calories, so 10 x 600 = 6000.that is the excess required to gain ten pounds of muscle not, a week but a year.that equates to 16 extra calories a day.If you take the recommended 25% protein, 60% carbs 15% fats recommendations, that equates to 4 calories,there are 4 calories in a gram of protien, so you require 1 extra gram per day.ok you may argue that bobybuilders need more. ok multiply it by ten, its still nothing really.Ill finish with this quote.Arthur Jones once said "guys in prison get huge pumping iron. They eat slop, too." For those who are chowing down hundreds of grams of protein every day, think about that piece of wisdom


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2009)

Pretty interesting response out of you essexboy i am impressed.

However a few points, in prison they have access to protein powders ext plus the food they eat can be eaten in large quantities at least in the prisons where people can build a lot of size. This prison body thing is an often misused example.

Suppluments are the reasons that naturals and i mean true naturals can build superior bodies to the past due to fast absorbing proteins ext.... generally drug users need less things like protein powder because the chance of the body going catabolic after lets say a work out is far lower so they can wait till they get home and then eat whole meal.

The actual process under which the body builds muscle is not 100% proven just like there is no 100% proven system of weight training to build muscle this renders the statement about protein worthless.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Con said:


> Pretty interesting response out of you essexboy i am impressed.
> 
> However a few points, in prison they have access to protein powders ext plus the food they eat can be eaten in large quantities at least in the prisons where people can build a lot of size. This prison body thing is an often misused example.
> 
> ...


 ill respond with my observations.

Whilst the prison remark is not definative, i beg to differ that they ALL have acess to protein and an abundance of food.Re your second point about naturals.All im going to say is genes.Any remarks you make about drugs, ill have to ignore ok, as ive no reference point or experience.You are correct, the exact process that creates growth are still not fully understood.So ill have to respond only with my own observations and experience.That leads me to believe without doubt that intensity of effort/rest are by far the most important factors, closely followed by correct form.Your final point.if the exact process is not understood(muscle growth) and my statement regarding protein is worthless, then surely the ingestion of protein is based on guesswork, tradition and rumour? which in fact it is!! By utilising this logic, I can state that standing on one leg whilst whistling "god bless America" will aid in the growth process.However I cant, as the onous is on me to PROVE the statement.I have submitted known physiological facts, the onus is not on me.im happy your impressed, but then why shouldnt you be?perhaps my name has led you to an inaccurate opinion of me,my finely built nemesis!


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## HGH (Apr 8, 2009)

i am back hardcore training on no gear and can get no supplements nor vitamins etc and my body is suffering slightly for it. I have inbalances in my body at present causing a touch of Gyno and also my ammonia problem when i sweat but besides that my joints, tendons and ligaments hurt the most whether thats because i am getting older or that my recovery/protein levels are not upto scratch. Given the choice i would have extra supplemetation just to be on the safe size.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

there was a great article were 2 dr's were arguing one was a coach who worked his theory's on people the other was a lab guy.

the lab guy was convinced that there was no need for extra protein, the field guy said well how come 99% of the guys i work with make improvements on it.

For whatever reason the lab facts were not mirrored in reality.

There diets were controlled, as was rest and activity.

The point is you can build muscle, of course with food alone but in my opinion you can improve further with supplementation.

I would say this is the case more so for naturals then for gear users.

protein, creatine, lglut, omega3 fish oil, are what i would advise and all are available in food. However in my opinion and experience, ive found that supplementing them helps.

There's also the thought of cost, time, ease, hunger, while not defining factors all lead towards use of supps over gaining the levels you would want through diet alone.

In short not necessary but offers an advantage.

It of course depends what levels you aspire too.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2009)

I would also like to make the point that when people "think" they eat very little protein as in protein from meat they are still often eat massive amounts of protein via complete vegetable sources ie the black guy who says "oh i eat only 1lb chicken per day no shakes ext" what he does not state is the 5lb of black beans and rice that he eats every day which gives him a massive amount of protein.

My point is if your eating good quality food in excess you will be eating a lot of protien like it or not....

I agree with what your saying over all essexboy.


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## Van (May 22, 2009)

essexboy said:


> well im one.if you can explain how food supplements can aid muscle growth , im all ears.


Im sorry but I have to stop you there sir, there is alot of science that has proven the body needs the correct amount of everything to work at its most efficient, this also leads into genetics e.g. if you have natuarally high test and a naturally high metabalism you will:

A. Grow muscle quicker than someone with low Testostorone

B. Carry less fat cells than someone who has a low metabalism

Its really basic science man, you then add in the factors which effect muscle growth which is primarly amino acids, but for your body to run at 100% you need the correct amount of every vitamin/mineral know to man as your body will not be deficent in anything so to speak thus leading your body to most probable out come = growth

There are 1000s of scientific studys that have gone into this.

I ask you the question - *Prove to me they dont work*

Until you have studys shown against a placibo that these dont work with full blood work etc you dont have a leg to stand on man

supps work its a fact (until proven otherwise) same as the world is round.

I must also comment on the whole ''guys in prision'' statement, they are on avergage bigger than your normal weedy charver but line those up against a bunch of guys from the O or even Nabba uk and they would like be so small in comparison, why? because there diet sucks and everything else sucks.. until you show me some stats from these so called ''prision guys'' there is very little to argue about.


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## Van (May 22, 2009)

It seems you dont understand the scientific approach , evidence must be presented if you are going to throw these thoughts and ideas around!


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Van said:


> Im sorry but I have to stop you there sir, there is alot of science that has proven the body needs the correct amount of everything to work at its most efficient, this also leads into genetics e.g. if you have natuarally high test and a naturally high metabalism you will:
> 
> A. Grow muscle quicker than someone with low Testostorone
> 
> ...


Sir, you are correct! the body requires an EXACT amnount of nutrients to function optiminally.However force feeding excessive amounts will not cause any futher reponses only an overload of the digestive system and a blocked up S bend!

REyour second point.I have stated scientific fact. The figures i quoted are not mine or random, but are easily available for all to see.

The "prove they they do not work" statement is not valid.I have presented the FACTS as above.The onus is not on me, i have made no claims, that they do work! the onus is on you to prove they do work!

Muscles are largely water. Show me one statement that states the inportance of adequate hydration.You wont. Its very hard to "sell" water, as its cheap and readily available.you dont need fancy marketing.

how can you compare prison lags with a conditioned athelete, who may have spent a year,training/dieting, and cosuming a ton of drugs, whilst the other spends 90% of his time in a cell?? However, you will still se a lot of big guys, DESPITE a less than perfect diet.They also dont spend all day traning and get plenty of rest.What does that tell you?Other factors far more important than diet are involved.

Tell you, you train like a "champion" with the perfect diet, all the drugs you want.We will put Con in a cell on three low protein meals a day, and one hours training a week, no drugs, and plenty of rest.(Sorry Con, all in the cause of science!) in a years time, we will compare who looks more like a champ.ill know who ill have my money on.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Van said:


> It seems you dont understand the scientific approach , evidence must be presented if you are going to throw these thoughts and ideas around!


Oh im afraid i do.if you can despute the figures that i posted above please do.You will not as they are fact, as 30 seconds on your pc will confirm.

In light of these facts, please post your "scientific" response as to why im wrong. Emotional, or opinionated replys are not valid.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

some very good and interesting points. my view is you need a balance. all to many people get sucked up into the whole supplements and go over the top with all these creatines, bcaas etc etc etc. i think whey is the only supplement which is worth the money


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## Neb (Jun 14, 2009)

You can also buy supps in prison such as whey etc, they get it in for you and you pay for it.

I rarely buy anything tbh...sometimes a mass gainer and whey but not often. I haven't had whey for 3 months.

I do however go through around 15 raw eggs a day and 5 pints of milk, blend tuna with coke zero to drink quickly on a daily basis so I guess this counts as supplementing my diet as I wouldn't do this if I wasn't lifting


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

Neb said:


> I do however go through around 15 raw eggs a day and 5 pints of milk, blend tuna with coke zero to drink quickly on a daily basis so I guess this counts as supplementing my diet as I wouldn't do this if I wasn't lifting


damn :| :beer:


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

The key point here, to me, is that the body ADAPTS to what it's fed with.

Jailbirds build physiques without what some people regard as optimum nutrition because their bodies haven't read the crap that is often thrown around on boards like this that says you must eat 300g of protein a day to grow.

Likewise, some people have sucked that myth up and eat these amounts, and because they grow from it, they think it's the only way.

Use of gear divides us into two groups, too. Gear users are generally the ones who preach massive protein intake as their bodies process it much more efficiently than naturals, but they generally don't seem to realise that their own logic doesn't apply to naturals.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

ba baracuss said:


> The key point here, to me, is that the body ADAPTS to what it's fed with.
> 
> Jailbirds build physiques without what some people regard as optimum nutrition because their bodies haven't read the crap that is often thrown around on boards like this that says you must eat 300g of protein a day to grow.
> 
> ...


good response!! if the body is feed inadequte nutrition, such as low calories, it will become more efficent at using those that are available.

Your second point has summed up, the mindset of a great percentage of BBs.they consume vast amounts of food, make progress, and assume its the diet that is responsible, without givivng themselves credit for working hard.Any progress that i make or not, it limited only by my genes.if im progressing im responsible, and will give myself the credit, and NOT atribute it to some dried powder!!

im directing my repsonses to only those that are natural.The rules are different for drug users.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

i think opinions on this front will always be divided as so far no study has proven beyond a reasonable doubt either way.

As i posted earlier the results of the studys i have read indicate that despite the fact that people shouldn't need or benefit from the extra protein they still do.

Its this argument, the facts and medical science say no, real life says yes.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

I find it funny this point about natural vs non natural trainers are made because i for one put on 50lb of muscle naturally and all besides one of the people i help with training and diet are natural so i am far from out of touch of what natural trainers need.

That said i do love reading threads and theorys posted by people who probably have not even built a physique that stands out in a crowd yet on the net they feel smart throwing figures and theories around(i am actually not speaking about any one on this thread but i have seen countless threads like this in the past and often the most upspoken guys are the ones with the least to show for it. What science says is one thing what will happen in reality is a different matter.


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

The supplement companies are making millions of pounds out of our desire to get bigger, thats why it is in all the mags that you need 2g of protein for every pound you weigh,i have an isolate drink after my workout with some dextrose, but i mainly eat beans on toast, chips, pizza,plus i drink more than i should, ok i dont have a great physique but i built it without all those powders they try and sell me, i bet i dont get 40 g of protein a day.


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## Tom1990 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> The supplement companies are making millions of pounds out of our desire to get bigger, thats why it is in all the mags that you need 2g of protein for every pound you weigh,i have an isolate drink after my workout with some dextrose, but i mainly eat beans on toast, chips, pizza,plus i drink more than i should, ok i dont have a great physique but i built it without all those powders they try and sell me, i bet i dont get 40 g of protein a day.


youll probs get 40g of protein in your post workout shake lol


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## bowen86 (Mar 17, 2008)

i eat nothing there for iam nothing.

i eat everything there for iam everything!

is that it?


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

I use so many sups...I sometimes lose track of what I'm spose to be taking when....but I often have the horrible feeling that sometimes I'm being conned, and that they are doing nothing at all...and yet I still take em cause I dont want to lessen my chances of growing....I'd love it if there was defintive evidence on some of the stuff ...its so easy to find reports that say they work and equally convincing reports that say they don't....god it's all so damm complicated


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

IanStu said:


> I use so many sups...I sometimes lose track of what I'm spose to be taking when....but I often have the horrible feeling that sometimes I'm being conned, and that they are doing nothing at all...and yet I still take em cause I dont want to lessen my chances of growing....I'd love it if there was defintive evidence on some of the stuff ...its so easy to find reports that say they work and equally convincing reports that say they don't....god it's all so damm complicated[/quoteAnds its that doubt that the Supplement companys thrive on.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i only think whey is worthwhile tbh. except health supps i use many


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

sickchest90 said:


> youll probs get 40g of protein in your post workout shake lol


I take 30g of isolate with 50g of dextrose. :thumb:


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## brian.garvin21 (Jul 18, 2009)

i also don't take any supplements because my diet contains all the nutrients as well as micronutrients that the supplements give.


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## boxer2quick (Feb 3, 2007)

solidcecil said:


> you can still get roids in prison


Yeah, but you wont get away with it for very long cos you get **** tests, roids are not that common inside


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i love how everyone thinks its so easy to get them in prison


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I don't take a lot of supps and I don't take massive amounts of protein... IMO why eat 12 or 18 eggs in one sitting (even just whites), can your body utilize that amount of protein in one sitting?

The body cannot store protein for later, It can turn it to fat and store that, it can't store carbs and it can't store very many supplements - which is why our p1ss is always flourescent yellow.

I always have 2 or 3 eggs at a time rarely more..

suppl wise - I have a good muti vit/mineral tab, essential fatty oils every day. a couple of proteing shakes about half of the month only (ie not every day) - a very good healthy varied diet that has taken me a long time to understand and use.


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