# 3 day split critique



## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

day 1 squats 1x20

bench press 3x8

close grip bench press 3x8

day 3 squats 1x20

deadlifts 3x8

weighted chins 3x8

day 5 squats 1x20

military press 3x8

upright row 3x8

based on a breathing squat cycle with 2.5lb being addd to the squat every session over 6 week cycle

what do you think?


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

> what do you think?


you havent stated any goals to go off

its not ideal by fr

it has the basis of being 'ok' for newbies if:

rep ranges and exrcise choice are sorted

more leg work is done

lesser exercises weeded out

as it is it is not really ideal for anything

hypertrophy will be limited, strength non existant

pick a goal, post more info and more help can be given


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

the splits for mass, you do realise breathing squats are renowned for producing huge mass gains?

and where are the lesser exercises? maybe the close grip bench and possibly the upright row but the rest are all mass excercises!

as for more leg work my hams are getting hit 1s a week with the deads and my whole legs are getting hammered 3 times a week. no offence mate but if you think you can crank out a set of good mornings after 20 rep squats then more you than me


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

crack on if you think you are right mate

your training is poor, no ifs, no buts

if you can justify it, crack on



> you do realise breathing squats are renowned for producing huge mass gains?


funnily enough yes as i have documented time and time again due to the % of SO fibres in the quds

but then again one set is not enough to stimulate either strength, functional or non functional hypertrophy



> no offence mate but if you think you can crank out a set of good mornings after 20 rep squats then more you than me


lol


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

again, i agree with toxic

but this time, he wasnt 'blunt enough' lol

the workout isnt very well though about or put together

it wont do much for you, but go ahead if you want to...its no skin of anyone elses nose

please dont judge people by their post count though

you have spoken down to toxic a bit there...but he is very clued up on things


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

> but this time, he wasnt 'blunt enough' lol


lol, damned if i do, damend if i dont 

TBH its not a case of talking down to me, its a typical case of someone 'knowing better' only to make themselves look clueless

i will debate any point riased on justifying its worth as a plan

there is nothing advanced about the plan as their is a lack of appreciation for rep ranges to muscle group

the illogical notion of microloading 1kg a week on squats

unless you are starting on 100kg + for the 20 reppers the weight increase should be far more or some other form of progressive overload should be employed such as wave progression

but again im sure there will be a counter argument to justify what is in effect the re invention of the wheel

problem is the wheel is now a square shape

crack on mate

chest is lacking in volume

no horizontal plane for lats

again i could go on


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

I dont reckon you could recover from 20 rep squats 3 times a week personally.

Apart from that i dont think its as bad as everyone else has made out tbh

There is more than one way to skin a cat


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

recover from one set 3 times a week?

its recruiting endurance fibres for 45 seconds to 1 minute once, the revocery is not an issue

what do you like about the plan?

where is the chest work?

back thickness?

if you are going to do a FBR plan then rippetoe starting strength is better

or simply employ a logical push/pull/legs split or other split

this is neither


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> recover from one set 3 times a week?


20 rep squats are hardly "one set" , not like you mean it anyway!

If they are done properly and intensely you shouldnt be able to hardly stand up after! So yes, i think overtraining is defo possible!

When i perform them i use my 10 rep max for squats, once i get to the 10 i am obviously fooking knackered. Then i start puffing and blowing and struggle my t*ts off to get the next 10 reps out.

I personally find them much more taxing than say 5 x 5 for squats.

I didnt say " i liked the routine" , i said i didnt think it was as bad as everyone made out! I agree a push/pull/legs would probably be more sensible.

And yes, starting strength is a great routine.(i have used it) Where is the chest work in that??? Bench press is the answer, period!

Starting strength has back thickness work (pendlay row ) , but where is the back width work ???!

Sure it has OPTIONAL chins and dips in there, but they are just that optional


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Where's Big when you need him! I'd like to see his input.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

i would stick to a push / pull / legs split instead of squat&push / squat&back / squat&shoulders..

1. not enough rest between squat days

2. lacks any rowing movement (upright is more shoulders unless your talking bent over)

3. not enough legs

^ as the other lads have said.

maybe something more like this?

day 1 - push (chest)

bench

incline / decline bench

flys / cables

tri's

day 3 - legs

squats

deads

lunges? leg curls?

day 5 - pull/shoulders

chins

row / rev fly

lat pulldown

military press

upright row

^ very rough program but start with the base... when doing a split, make sure you target different muscle groups on the days as you won't give them enough rest - this is mainly in regards to your squats.

every anatomical movement can be categorised under 3 main subcategories - push / pull / legs.

start with that base and then add the rest.. you can either group shoulders with push or pull as both have some aspect of shoulders.. if day 5 is friday then you will have the weekend to rest before day 1 hits your shoulders again.. do shoulders on day 3 and they will still be fatigued from day 1 when doing chest.

if you are training for mass, maybe even increase the rep range to 10 but on the final set go down to 6-8 instead?

just my 2 cents worth.. feel free to rip it apart.

*edit... added "leg" before the word curls on day 3 to avoid confusion.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

AussieMarc said:


> day 1 - push (chest)
> 
> bench
> 
> ...


Sorry bud but thats not a push/pull/legs routine !!


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

lol...thats what i was thinking


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

push

chest

delts

tri's

pull

back

traps

bi's

legs

quads

hams

calves


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

Bulldozer said:


> *20 rep squats are hardly "one set" , not like you mean it anyway!*
> 
> If they are done properly and intensely you shouldnt be able to hardly stand up after! So yes, i think overtraining is defo possible!
> 
> ...


lol

lets just hope you dont decide on GVT then:confused:


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

German volume training is a different kettle of fish tho bud!

Kinda off topic!


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

why is it off topic?

you have stated its hard to do one set of 20 rep squats, which is not the case

3,4,5 sets maybe but the CNS and both anaerobic and aerobic system can easily handle one set

now, throw in 10 x 10 squats supersetted with military press on GVT is hard when you have 90 seconds rest....so it is on topic really?

the original plan is poor, 20 rep squats are no diferent to sprint drills in track training where drills are repeated time in time out


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

For 99% of people GVT is training suicide anyway IMO. Especially drug free guys.

Hell training 3 times a week can be too much period for hargainer ecto types.

I totally disagree with everything your saying bud, but thats just my opinion! And you know what they say about opionions!! They are like as*holes..... everybody has one


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

explain why GVT or volume training for that mater is suicide given the time its emloyed for

(beyond 'IMO' please...ie a logical reason)

do you not respect or rate the work of poloquin even after what he has done in the world of training?

what about eastern block training? are you aware of how training is done there?

i dont mind debates but conclusions based on IMO with no actual reason holds no water for me

cheers


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

Bulldozer said:


> Sorry bud but thats not a push/pull/legs routine !!


errr? where have i gone wrong?

mentioned the reason i grouped shoulders & back together - as you do shoulders in rows as well < if that is the error you are referring to then im no dummy - already explained my reason behind grouping back and shoulders together. not to mention you can also do delts in a pull - eg. front & side raises. doesn't seem like push to me?

if it makes you happy, swap day 1 & 5 around.. add bi's on day 1 and shoulders to day 5 minus tri's..


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> i dont mind debates but conclusions based on IMO with no actual reason holds no water for me


Well you just gave me your opinion!!! Or what else do you call that??


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

AussieMarc said:


> errr? where have i gone wrong?
> 
> mentioned the reason i grouped shoulders & back together - as you do shoulders in rows as well < if that is the error you are referring to then im no dummy - already explained my reason behind grouping back and shoulders together. not to mention you can also do delts in a pull - eg. front & side raises. doesn't seem like push to me?
> 
> if it makes you happy, swap day 1 & 5 around.. add bi's on day 1 and shoulders to day 5 minus tri's..


I didnt say there was anything wrong with your routine bud, chill out 

You said "i would stick to a push / pull / legs split" And all i said is that isnt a push/pull/legs split .

I dont see no wrong in pairing shoulders with back if you are so inclined, but that means its no longer a push/pull/legs routine


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

why are you arguing semantics?

please explain with GVT or any volume training is not suitable


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> why are you arguing semantics?
> 
> please explain with GVT or any volume training is not suitable


Ok mate, firstly i didnt say any volume training is not suitable, so lets get that bit straight!!!!!

Not everybody has the same recovery powers! A hardgainer is not gonna gain sh*t on GVT because its simple too much for there CNS to recover from.

Everybody is different and you have to find a balance of frequency/volume/intensity that works for YOU!!

For the majority of people GVT is simple too much volume!!

And everything you write in this little box in front of you is just "your opionion" And thats all it is mate!! You can use all the flashy terms you like!! Dont change the fact whatever you write here is your OPINION! :crazy:


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

> You can use all the flashy terms you like!!


shall i post some flashy terms on CNS recovery for you?


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> shall i post some flashy terms on CNS recovery for you?


So you demand an explanation on my opionion , but chicken out on yours?? hmm

Also you still havnt gave me an explanation why its so terrible apparently to just do bench press for chest and only do one back exercise. Yet you contradicted yourself by advising rippetoe's strating strength!?


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

well ive started a right little storm off here! not what i intended though i promise!

first off if i came over like i was talking down to you toxic then i apologise that is in no way what i meant. BUT when ive got body builders with years of experience behind them explaining how they put on an extra 6lbs while there off the gear and you turn round and just say no that wont work im not going to think much of you wether you 100lb or 320lb.

from what i can read (and im only assuming here) you have never tried breathing squats properly or your opinions would be different! they are not simply 1 set of 20 squats, the weight used is normally 80-90% of your 5 rep weight so roughly youl hit failure on your 7 or 8th rep then you just keep going 1 by 1 till youve done 20. Getting the idea of how hard its going to be now? its like going past failure by 13reps but on your own.

bulldozers not saying gvt is a bad way to train just its to hard for a lot of people to take with out huge rsting periods inbetween which will negate any gains from the sets in the first place. if your saying thats impossible then go and do 100 reps of your 1 rep max weight in the squat rack, then do the same the next day and the day after that and the day after that if you can honestly tell me at the end of the week that you feel healthy and have no serious injurys then il bow to your feet.


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

also if core excercises like deads and bench press are so bad for gaining mass then how do you explain the thousands of of bodybuilders and powerlifters that swear by them for packing on mass? or the golden rule of new lifters sticking to the big excercies?


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

harry_88 said:


> well ive started a right little storm off here! not what i intended though i promise!


Hey no worries buddy, its just a difference of opinion!

Im sorry for hijacking your thread


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

no problem mate if we all agreed on everything there wouldnt be any point to the forum.

im going to go ahead with the cycle and see if the gains are as good as i think they will be its only 6 weeks lost if there not and then i can give a proper yes or no answer from experience


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Its all a learning curve bud.

Let us know how u get on . good luck


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

AussieMarc said:


> errr? where have i gone wrong?
> 
> mentioned the reason i grouped shoulders & back together - as you do shoulders in rows as well < if that is the error you are referring to then im no dummy - already explained my reason behind grouping back and shoulders together. not to mention you can also do delts in a pull - eg. front & side raises. doesn't seem like push to me?
> 
> if it makes you happy, swap day 1 & 5 around.. add bi's on day 1 and shoulders to day 5 minus tri's..


its the words push/pull that get confusing

you have shoulder presses stated as a 'pull' for starters

but just to explain further

push...means exactly that, imagine its that you are pushing the weight the opposite way from where it wants to go..ie presses, pushdowns etc

pull...means pulling a weight the oposite way from where it wants to go ie pulldowns, rows, curls etc

there are a few 'grey areas' like flyes

but a fly is a push, as you are pushing the weights together

and lateral raises...some say its pulling the weight up, some say its pushing...the debate will go on for ever LOL

the thing to remember is that chest is predominantly a push, as are delts...so the little isolation excercises that break the rules, just get grouped with the compounds 

i know delts can be grouped either push or pull, but its best to group them with the push muscles, as back (pull) has traps and bi's on that day

is that as clear as mud now??


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

Bulldozer said:


> So you demand an explanation on my opionion , but chicken out on yours?? hmm
> 
> Also you still havnt gave me an explanation why its so terrible apparently to just do bench press for chest and only do one back exercise. Yet you contradicted yourself by advising rippetoe's strating strength!?


i have stated rippetoes starting strength is better structured

this forum is called advanced bodybuilding, therefore GVT would be fine as i would assume the trainer has an adapted to the nueral demans of training

recovery is about in the main CNS recovery which of course occurs within 12 hours

the other being glycogen replenishment, which again when bulking is not an issue

the demans of a 20 rep squat set is similar to a 400mt track event (which is docuemnted somewhere)

now and athlete training for that is able to complete more than one of those a day, and will replicate it more than once a week

rippetoes plan also is aimed at strength, it is not a bodybuilding plan, just a point of reference to call upon if someone has not sorted their trainin

same with bill starrs 5 x 5 plan...they are not designed for bodybuilders but will have more basic exercises with logic

so the original plan we have here has upright rows and CGBP

when volume is low these exercises are not ideal, simple as

trap work and direct tricep isolation is pointless

CGBP would be swapped for dips

upright rows for DB press or t worst a set of shrugs

as its an 'advanced plan' it should at least appreciate the rep ranges muscle hypertrophy from

for legs there should be some variety as quads have a split fibre % of 1 and 2 . this means heavy sets are used with high reps

advanced bodybuilding is about:

a combination of compounds and isolations

the right rep range to suit the muscle group

the plan above is not a case of this, its not a FBR routine nor is it a logical split

anyway, back to CNS.....and volume training

volume training is advanced BBing

the likes of serge nubret have put forward some volume plans as has brian haycock here

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

that is volume training


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> i have stated rippetoes starting strength is better structured
> 
> this forum is called advanced bodybuilding, therefore GVT would be fine as i would assume the trainer has an adapted to the nueral demans of training
> 
> ...


So all your basically saying is, he posted in the wrong section. lol

I am well aware of bill stars routine and rippetoe's and im fully aware they are strength based, and HST is way out there IMO. (even tho all this is way off topic!) But has worked for some, just shows how different we all are. You seem very narrow minded to me mate (no offence, just calling it how i see it)

Thanks for the off topic lecture anyway bud


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

advanced bodybuilding would suggest that, yes

narrow minded? no, just a professional in the field and when i disagree with something i will ask why

anyhow, back to CNS issues....

please state why volume training is not applicable for advanced trainers please rather than 'IMO' with no real reason

thanks in advance

if i were to be narrow minded i would say something along the lines of "do you train?" by looking at your avatar after giving advice but we know physical condition has little to do with nknowledge

so less of the pfeensive posts and back onto training as i hate to have meaningless debates based on semantics and personal digs

i like science, logic and so on

so over to you and no hard feelings


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> anyhow, back to CNS issues....
> 
> please state why volume training is not applicable for advanced trainers please rather than 'IMO' with no real reason


Where did i say that ?? You keep twisting things i have said ??

I said no such thing!! And i kinda get the impression (cos i have common sense) that the original poster harry is not an advanced trainer. dont you!? (no offence harry bud  )

AND WILL YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD THAT EVERYTHING YOU WRITE HERE IS "YOUR OPINION" . Just as what i write is mine. You have given me nothing except your opinion!

YES you are narrow minded and also child like! Dont spit ya dummy out at me buddy 

Yes i have an avvy pic up! Im not an MT keyboard warrior like you who dont post pics!! (so kiss my hairy a*s, no need to make it personal)

Its because of narrow minded opinionated guys like you that i dont post on MT, im sure you have upset your fair share of people over there (infact i know u have, guys have even left the board bacause of your attitude problem)

I wont bother to reply to this thread again, i dont see the point. Your obviously always right, i mean what 46,000 posts on MT and im sure everyone of those you was right !!! (atleast in your head lol)

Dont think you have got to me either bud, all i see is letters on a screen. 

:tongue10::tongue10::tongue10:


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

ok, fair enough mate

if you do get to scroll through on MT, have a look out for my show pics

i see we are going to have no out come to this

i shall leave you with your following quote



> Where did i say that ?? You keep twisting things i have said ??





> A hardgainer is not gonna gain sh*t on GVT because its simple too much for there CNS to recover from.


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/advanced-bodybuilding/23209-3-day-split-critique-2.html#post290378

so, as you are not going to respond, have a scan round the site for my show pics if you wish

peace


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

toxictoffee said:


> please state why volume training is not applicable for *advanced* trainers please rather than 'IMO' with no real reason


I said hardgainer. and i also said GVT, not volume training.

Do you go to spec savers ?


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

I wont bother to reply to this thread again, i dont see the point.

Oh Bully,you promised!


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

PARAMANIAC said:


> I wont bother to reply to this thread again, i dont see the point.
> 
> Oh Bully,you promised!


PMSL , i tried!! i couldnt resist hehe. keeps miss quoting me to try and make me look silly.


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

toxic you seem a bit confused, how can a set of 20 rep squats be no harder or create less hypertrophy than a 100m sprint in all conditions???

if thats the case then 20 reps with no plates will have the same effect as squatting 500lb or printing 100 metres!

if thats the case then i know a lot of people that are going to be over the moon when they realise they can stop squatting and just sprint for 5 mins a day!

no offence but you seem to be lost in your own arguments!

the cycle is not permanent and its well documented that high reps and weights when the body is used to low reps and heavy weights will produce extra growth and keep the body guessing.

were not talking about 20 reps with a weight i can just make the last rep with were talking about 20 reps with a weight i can JUST make the 6 or 7 rep with.

Before discussing the actual program, you must understand the psychology of 20-rep squatting. You can't just go to the gym, put some plates on the bar, start squatting and hope for the best. This program is as much about focus and mental toughness as it is physical exercise - probably more. You have to be mentally prepared or you will not make it. Pain and fear will be there with you, tempting you to stop, telling you to give up. Your body will be screaming for you to listen to them, and the little voice in your head will be begging you to do cease and desist. Tell them to shut up. You've got some growing to do!

borrowed from musclenet:











*High rep squats work wonders for building muscular bulk and strength, not just for the legs, but for the entire body. The program is ridiculously simple... See it to believe it. Learn more right here!*








*By:* David Whitley
​
Chances are that a lot of you have heard of the 20-rep squat program at some point along the line. It is an old-school approach to putting on size that was common a few decades ago when men were men and drugs were unavailable. You do one set of 20 reps of the squat, plus a few other exercises.

Every successive training session you add 5-10 lbs to your squat weight. It has been touted as one of the most effective programs ever designed for adding muscular size and strength in a short period of time, and with good reason; it works!

High rep squats work wonders for building muscular bulk and strength, not just for the legs, but for the entire body. The program is ridiculously simple to follow, brutally hard to do, and extremely productive. It's so productive, in fact, that I have never ever heard of anyone who did a version of this program correctly and didn't gain size and strength.

Whenever I have a client who wants to get big in as little time as possible, this is where we begin. I am going to outline a 6-week program that has put slabs of muscle on everyone who has ever followed it. It is time to stop living in Tiny Town. This is your ticket to Hugeville.










*Get Your Mind Right*










Before discussing the actual program, you must understand the psychology of 20-rep squatting. You can't just go to the gym, put some plates on the bar, start squatting and hope for the best. This program is as much about focus and mental toughness as it is physical exercise - probably more.

You have to be mentally prepared or you will not make it. Pain and fear will be there with you, tempting you to stop, telling you to give up. Your body will be screaming for you to listen to them, and the little voice in your head will be begging you to do cease and desist. Tell them to shut up. You've got some growing to do!

Squatting a heavy weight for 20 reps will not feel natural for your body. It will hurt. You will feel dizzy and light-headed. You will probably want to vomit. Go ahead. Your body may decide to completely shut down and leave you in the bottom of a squat, unable to rise. Obviously, safety is of primary concern.

Load the bar, get under it, tense up, and lift it clear of the pins. Step back, take a deep breath and begin. Squat all the way down, at least to parallel. Come back up, take a few deep breaths, and squat again. The further you get into the set, the more of an issue breath becomes.

In fact, old-timers sometimes called them "breathing squats". By the time you get to the last few agonizing reps, you will be doing more breathing than squatting. One of the reasons so much growth is stimulated on this program is that the muscles of the upper body are constantly working to support the weight and to fill the lungs with air. Take as many deep breaths as necessary between reps.

You must keep complete focus throughout the entire set. Convince yourself before you even get under the bar that you WILL NOT quit. The only reason to stop short of 20 reps is going into the hole and being physically unable to stand back up.

It is going to happen at some point; you will get into the bottom position and your legs will simply stop working. That's okay; next time you simply load the bar to the same weight and attack it again.

The length of the cycle is six weeks. This is a good amount of time for building size and strength without going into overtraining and burnout. Longer than six weeks usually amounts to diminishing returns. The standard protocol in the beginning is to train three times per week on non-consecutive days.

For example, the classic Monday, Wednesday, Friday schedule works perfectly. If you are not recovering well, you may train twice per week. The first time I tried this routine, I did well with MWF. A few months later, after I had done a couple of 20-rep cycles, I had great results training only on Tuesday and Friday. By this time, I had learned to focus better and was using fairly heavy weights, so the extra recovery was more warranted and well appreciated for me.

I have heard many different ideas concerning weight selection, and I believe that it is good to begin with the end in mind, especially for a first-timer on this program. Most people can reasonably expect to be squatting their 5-rep max (5RM) for 20 by the 6-week mark.

To determine your starting weight, take your current 5RM and subtract 5 lbs for each scheduled workout. So, if your current 5RM is 315 lbs and you are planning to train three times per week for 6 weeks (18 workouts), you should begin with 225 lbs, as 18 workouts x 5lbs per workout = 90lbs. Subtract 90 from 315 and you get 225. Simple enough.

After your squats, do a light set of pullovers for about 20-25 reps. I recommend using a 25lb plate and doing them across a bench, but you can use a dumbbell if you like. Think of this as a recovery aid more than an exercise. Stick with the same light weight for the duration of the cycle.

Other exercises are added based on your recovery ability. You should include at least one pressing movement and a pulling movement but you can add more if you feel like you can adequately recovery from the additional volume. Listen to your body; if it gets to be too much, you can always drop a set or two later.

A sample program for someone with good recovery ability might look like this:



Squat: 1x20


Pullovers: 1x20


Stiff-legged deadlift: 1x15

Pullovers: 1x20


Bench press: 2-3 x 10


Bent row: 2-3x15


Military press: 2-3 x 12

hell tom platzz was known to love 20 rep squats for his infamous legs, if that aint enough for you nothing ever will be!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194726&d=1113582674


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

im not lost in the argument at all mate

i have stated the breakdown of the quads and their fibre type

the SO fibres will of course hypertrophy off 20 rep sets, there is no doubt about that, they are endruance fibres. the issue being that the load required along with the lack of volume will do little for the hypertrophy of the FG which of course are a large factor of the quads

is this point something you disagree with

if you were varying your rep range then yes its logical, if not you are selling yourself short

its an argument i have had time and time again

now, if you are doing rest pause training in that set, then it may have its merits but again the contribution from SO fibres will be minimal as you are doing 'mini sets' within a set

what you have designed is not in lign with the cut and paste above

you have a split, not a FBR, you have just tagged squats onto a split. what is listed above is a FBR which has merits and is in the correct rep range and replicated 2-3 times a week

so, in short, your training is poorly thought out

you are not appreciating the composition of the quadriceps and have a plan that is a hybrid of everything that was right, but now is wrong

so FBRs 2/3 times weekly = fine

thats not what you have here and the structure needs alterning

are you seeing my point?

do you know about fibre types and stimulating them?

why are you not doing 20 rep deadlifts BTW if this is the theory

leave google alone and look at this from a point of logica rather than simply copy and pasting something that actually doesnt reseemble what you are doing


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

no im not doing the same as above because i know from experience my legs grow well with high reps but the rest of my body doesnt.

yes i do know about types of muscle fibre and with my dad working for a sports pharmaceutical company devolping the pills you throw down your neck id say id challenge your knowledge of human physiology any day of the week.

BUT i dont divulge in loook how clever i am conversation because from a bodybuilding point of view i dont give a crap how muscle fibres work, i dont care if its the best workout in the world on paper if it doesnt work for my body which is why i rely on my real world experience and that of others.

As for the difference between my routine and the FBR i dont think its going to make much difference, if i train my chest once a week and hard instead of half heartedly when im exhausted after to many excercises


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

plenty of other muscle groups hypertrophy off higher reps dont they....


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

bulldozer , do u post on mt ? Because the way i see it the only reason u r giving tt a hard time is because he posts on mt. So looks like u need to grow up.

:gun:

I post everynow and again on mt and other boards - all have their plus's and negatives


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Have you read the whole thread mate?

He insulted me!! and keeps miss quoting me, trying to make me look silly thats why im giving him a hard time!! as u put it!

He is very blunt and rude, there is no need to be that way.

Bodybuilding is not black and white! right and wrong. As he suggests it is.

I dont simple suck upto somebody because they are a mod or a respected member.(which is what it looks like u are doing) If i have an opinion i will say it. If im insulted, what do you expect me to say ?

I got a question for you ? why have you decided to pick on me? When if you have read the thread properly i have always been polite in my posts, using smileys and the word mate etc. Only to be insulted.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

On a side note, yes i do post on MT mate. Its an absolutely brillaint board, some great guys on there and lots of great info. But i feel there are too mant rude guys on there also. But thats just my opnion


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

guess i jumped the gun there mate

i thought him havin a pop at ur avtar was a bit bellow belt

i guess its all about opinions


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

anabolic lion said:


> guess i jumped the gun there mate
> 
> i thought him havin a pop at ur avtar was a bit bellow belt
> 
> i guess its all about opinions


    

No worries buddy.

I am not an argumentative guy, although reading this thread you probably think different lol.

Group hug


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

:beer1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Interesting posts.

I myself being 48 need to do the higher reps for legs as when I load the bar up my knees start telling me to stop.

Knee injuries will seriously hinder quad development

I myself only do each muscle group every 9 days.

I have found that I need alot of time for adaptive recovery for growth.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

hackskii said:


> Interesting posts.
> 
> I myself being 48 need to do the higher reps for legs as when I load the bar up my knees start telling me to stop.
> 
> ...


Yep i much prefer higher reps for legs also hacks.

I only train every third day! So im about on par with you for training each muscle every 9 days.

I think i probably use a lower volume of work than you also. But im stll progressing! Thats the main thing


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I train to failure for one set myself.

I don't care if I make the smallest of strength gains, they are still strength gains.

Bulldozer, it's only letters on that monitor. 

I love opinions myself, cause we all have them.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

winger said:


> Bulldozer, it's only letters on that monitor.


I know, i know 

A very wise guy taught me that


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Knowledge is free, the way you present it (karma) isn't.

Ya get more bees with honey then you do vintager. 

Say, is this guy going to be buying space soon? When is the banner coming up?


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

just thought id let you know how im getting on

7 days into the new workout, put on between 2 and 3lb naturally, its been f****** hard so far its been a long time since my body had a battering like this and its taking some getting used to lol my legs were in so much pain for the first 3 days but their feeling huge now and the rest of my body feels so much fuller and tighter!

workout now looks like this:

1x20 squats at 5rep max weight

3x8 bench press

3x8 shoulder press

3x12 deadlifts/ goodmornings depending on how im feeling

3x8 over row

all the sets are taken to failure and im starting 4 weeks of 30mg sdrol this weekend and il be upping the calories and going beyond failure for 2 of the 4 weeks. the way i feel already i can see some big gains coming (or me having a heart attack lol but in all seriousness its a lot harder than i thout it would be but it feels so good when i limp out of the gym i feel like a god!

thanks for the advice guys


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

why train to failure on all sets?

2-3lb added to the weights your shifting or body weight?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

2-3 lbs of muscle in a week?

That is never gonna happen.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

it does with maximuscle and cyclone you know, it does


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

toxictoffee said:


> it does with maximuscle and cyclone you know, it does


Add lean muscle?

Nah, never gonna happen.

Slab 3 pounds of meat on your shouders and tell me that you have 3 lbs of muscle.

Not even assisted this would happen.......

Sorry for being a nay sayer here:love:


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Are you drunk again hacks lol 

I think he was being sarcastic mate lol


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

sarcasm will catch on for our friends over the pond sooner or later :usa2:

cut the boy some slack, they have only been around for a couple of hundred years and only just realised how good soooocccccccer is now that beckham plays there

one step at a time

sarcasm may catch on by the time australians realise you dont have to have a mullet, wear a flannel shirst and bollock huggin jeans to go to school in

we have to be more accepting of our fellow english speaking nations


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Beckham is ours now.......lol

Is his ankle good now?


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Damn Toxic i didnt know u had a sense of humour mate  mg:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Bulldozer said:


> Damn Toxic i didnt know u had a sense of humour mate  mg:


Me either.

Hey Toxic, fly over the pond and the first round of Coffee is on me. 

Not a body shot though......lol.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

i dont have a sense of humour, i just have mental issues

as for coming accross the pond?

been a few times and TBH its somewhere i will go back to soon



> Beckham is ours now.......lol


and im sure he would have signed for a pub team like galaxy if they were paying logical wages, he would have, honestly


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

I loved seeing the highlights when Beck's scored his first goal for LA Galaxy.....

'It's Beck-ham.....Beck-ham scores!!!''. ''He really can bend a ball like Beck-ham''...pmsl.... I need to move to America...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

toxictoffee said:


> sarcasm will catch on for our friends over the pond sooner or later :usa2:
> 
> cut the boy some slack, they have only been around for a couple of hundred years and only just realised how good soooocccccccer is now that beckham plays there
> 
> ...


Haaaa haaaa, yes we are just babies.

But this is why I am here to learn all I can from our more dignified, and mature brothers.

I did get that as sarcasm, I just wanted to make sure they knew exactally where I am comming from.

Looking at a pound of beef is huge.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Damn Hijackers.......lol 

Harry, how is the workout coming along?


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

winger said:


> Damn Hijackers.......lol


I learnt from a pro :rolleye11


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bulldozer said:


> I learnt from a pro :rolleye11


oh that is a funny one.......Sorry for the hyjack.................


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

hackskii said:


> oh that is a funny one.......Sorry for the hyjack.................


Some of the best threads ever.......ooooopsie!......lol.


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

all good thanks winger, went on the superdrol yday- this is some evil stuff i feel 10 times as bad as i did on m1t on half the dose! hopefully itl push the gains up nicely tho!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Good luck with that Harry!


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

i would prefer to run meths and a vat of acid instead of M1T

filthy example of a drug offered to so many unsuspecting trainers OTC, no PCT infi in sight

what is the world coming to?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

toxictoffee said:


> i would prefer to run meths and a vat of acid instead of M1T
> 
> filthy example of a drug offered to so many unsuspecting trainers OTC, no PCT infi in sight
> 
> what is the world coming to?


Heard a guy got gyno from it that nolva wouldnt stop.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

no its likely according to some to be progesterone related

i gained:

gyno

body fat (on a diet as clean as a whistle and not in a massive surplus)

shut down for months

ended up in hospital, pi5sing thicker than i was sh1tting

its sh1te in a bottle


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

toxictoffee said:


> no its likely according to some to be progesterone related
> 
> i gained:
> 
> ...


Sad how some of the over the counter supplements do more damage than the real deal.

I never researched myself due to me not wanting to get into the OTC stuff.

As it is I took the andro, tribulis, sarsprillia, hot stuff, and much more.

I wont spend a dime now on that crap.

Any guys got info on M1T?

I would like to check it out just for curiosity reasons.

Sounds like the dark urination TT was due to liver.


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

its so liver toxic its untrue

M1T

methyl - 1 - testosterone

underground labs run the first one in the Uk

just google any big supps company in the UK and they should sell it

tribulus is good PCT for it according to the lad in my local shop

even though nolva/clomid PCT still gave me gyno and a trip to the hospital

then again i dont get on with dbol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Trib is worthless for PCT, I have tried many brands and spent massive money on diffrent ones claiming the Bulgarian was the best, etc.

End product, just had less money.

Clomid and nolva for this kid PCT, that is after the HCG has taken care of what it is supposed to (balls).....


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## toxictoffee (May 2, 2007)

for sure but they cant tell you that in the shop when you hand your £29.99 over for your bottle of gyno pills

6 OXO is the other one touted for a PCT for M1T

what a giggle


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## harry_88 (Jan 2, 2006)

i know its strange! everyone else goes on about how bad m1t was for them but i felt good on it! this sdrol stuff im not so sure on lol my eye sights a bit off, feel distant and spaced out 24/7 and i couldnt get enough water in me if i was a fish!

gains are coming thick and fast tho! this is my last cycle on orals anyway finally gona make the move to pins!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well good luck with all that Harry.


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