# Upper/lower split



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

After my hols im thinking of doing this as my 4 dayer, really like the idea of working every muscle group twice weekly

Upper A.

Bb bench - 3x8

Cable crossovers - 3x15

Bb rows - 3x12

Behind neck press - 3x8

Db skulls - 2x10

Db preacher - 2x20

Lower A.

Squat - 4x6

Extensions - 3x15

Seated curl - 2x15

Standing calfs - 3x20

Rear delts flys - 3x15

Upper B.

Deads - 3x8

Dips - 3x12

Narrow grip pulldown - 3x15

Upright rows - 3x15

Bb curl - 2x12

straight bar pushdowns 2x20

Lower B.

Leg press - 4x10

Lying leg curls - 4x20

Seated calfs - 4x10

Weighted crunches - 3x15

Leg raises - 3x20

To be performed mon/tue/thurs/fri.

Had to add in the rear delt work into the first lower day but could take it out if neccessary

Ive tried to vary the rep range as much as i can.

Trying to go heavy and low rep on compounds and higher reps to really feel the contraction on the iso lifts

My only real worry is that im doing Hamstrings the day after doing deads

Any thoughts guys???


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

You know my theories Ash

Not a size building routine imo. Far too much work and far too many isolations for my liking....


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Agree with ming .


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ok so how would you structure a 4 day upper/lower split then chaps?


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Its just at the minute i have been doing very high volume and rep ranges and i would say my arms have grown, considering im losing weight.

Unless its co there more cut now, and tannes:lol:


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Day 1. Bench x5. Bent Rows x3. Bench Dips x2.

Day 2. Squat x5. SLDL x3. Calf Raises x3.

Day 3. OHP x5. Dips x3. CGBP x2.

Day 4. Deads x5. Chins x3. Lunges x2.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Mingster said:


> You know my theories Ash
> 
> Not a size building routine imo. Far too much work and far too many isolations for my liking....


Cant actually believe you were the first on this bud:lol:


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I like upper/lower splits, but generally select exercises when setting up a routine for myself that go somewhat closer to Mingsters suggestions with mostly compounds, although I do throw in some ancillary single joint exercises too for weaker areas and to avoid imbalances.


----------



## LeviathanBodyBuilding (Jan 9, 2012)

looking at your first split, imo deads should be on a leg day day...you wont go far wrong with mings advice, helped me out loads when i was trying to design a split, saw most recent (have been training for nearly 4 1/2 years now) gains in a reduction in volume, and an increase in intensity :thumb: really goes to show less sometimes = more


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

danMUNDY said:


> looking at your first split, imo deads should be on a leg day day...you wont go far wrong with mings advice, helped me out loads when i was trying to design a split, saw most recent (have been training for nearly 4 1/2 years now) gains in a reduction in volume, and an increase in intensity :thumb: really goes to show less sometimes = more


what progress have you made in 4-1/5 years ?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Dtlv74 said:


> I like upper/lower splits, but generally select exercises when setting up a routine for myself that go somewhat closer to Mingsters suggestions with mostly compounds, although I do throw in some ancillary single joint exercises too for weaker areas and to avoid imbalances.


I agree with what you're saying here....I'm not totally adverse to isolations, and have specialised with Laterals over the past 12 months to balance and round out my shoulders to good effect. On the other side of the coin, I have never, ever seen anyone put an inch on their arms using Preacher Curls without doing heavy back work alongside.

There is value in certain isolation exercises but, really, you need a fair bit of muscle mass to isolate before you see results comparable to the effort expended ime


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Mingster said:


> I agree with what you're saying here....I'm not totally adverse to isolations, and have specialised with Laterals over the past 12 months to balance and round out my shoulders to good effect. On the other side of the coin, I have never, ever seen anyone put an inch on their arms using Preacher Curls without doing heavy back work alongside.
> 
> There is value in certain isolation exercises but, really, you need a fair bit of muscle mass to isolate before you see results comparable to the effort expended ime


I agree mate, the foundation of strength and basic size always comes from the compound movements... isolations for finishing once the foundation is largely there.

I must admit though I am one of those people who seems to have different muscles that respond best (in respect of hypertrophy) to differing reps to failure... generally my chest, back, traps prefer lower heavier reps, but my legs and arms like higher reps.

For legs this is no problem because I can just stick with compounds pretty much and do them higher rep (only two isolation type exercises I do for legs are leg curls and calf raises), but for arms this means I kind of have to add in higher rep isolation exercises on top of the lower rep compound movements for my chest and back. I also do best to use laterals and bent lateral for my side and rear delts combined with a compound exercise (usually clean and press), but my delts respond quite well to any rep scheme.

I also then do some direct core work and also rotator cuff work fairly regularly too, but consider that ancillary work to maintain postural balance and prevent injury rather than muscle building work.


----------



## diddler (Nov 12, 2011)

Mingster said:


> Day 1. Bench x5. Bent Rows x3. Bench Dips x2.
> 
> Day 2. Squat x5. SLDL x3. Calf Raises x3.
> 
> ...


Is that 5 sets 3 and 2 sets? Same weight after warm up stronglifts style, of ramping up to top set?

Ta


----------



## LeviathanBodyBuilding (Jan 9, 2012)

ewen said:


> what progress have you made in 4-1/5 years ?


well after i first stepped foot in the gym, i used a typical high volume, low intensity split chest/tri, back/bi legs/shoulders added about a stone, then after my first year i did rippetoes starting strength took my squat from 50kg -100kg 3x5, added a bit more size to my legs from this, then carried on with the high volume/low intensity straight set approach, diet got a bit sloppy and dirty bulked, strength gains were great but i didnt look pretty, stripped myself of 2 odd stone of fat and mostly, if not all my upper body strength went to pot, although the strength in my legs remained constant. really focused on my diet and eating clean, but this time there wasn't any improvements from training approach i had opted for. even felt like the lifts were starting to regress...after being a member on here for a while i put up a workout split idea, and ming kindly gave me some advise in regards to low volume, and high intensity but keeping the frequency low, took it on board and my lifts have started to go up, before hand i couldnt even get a set of 12 on parallel bars at my body weight which at the time was 13.5 stone, now im nearer 14 stone, leaner than i have ever been and i can dip a set of dips for 9 reps with 25kg hanging off me, i also took my squat from 100kg x 12 to 110 x15, quite happy with that atm, obvs there are a lot more to my routine than just those, but thats an example of how i managed to get past a plateau from dropping volume and increasing intensity..in ansd out of the gym alot quicker as wellm which is a bonus  if i hadnt of had mings advice id prob still be stuck there now


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

This can be tweaked a lot to personal interests, but has served me very well

Upper1

Bench 3 x 5

Row 3 x 5

Dips 4 x 10

Pull ups BW 4 x F

optional bi's & Side raises

Lower

Squat 3 x 5

SLDLs 4 x 10

Lunges 2 x 8 el

optional calves

Upper 2

Decline bench 3 x 5

t-rows 3 x 5

OHP 4 x 10

Chins 4 x 10

optional - triceps & facepulls

lower 2

Deadlifts 3 x 5

front squats 4 x 10

GHR or pull throughs or hamstring curls 2 x 8

optional - calves


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> This can be tweaked a lot to personal interests, but has served me very well
> 
> Upper1
> 
> ...


Nice, good template for others IMO


----------



## diddler (Nov 12, 2011)

^^^^^^^^

I like the look of that as a change from SL 5x5 . Are the sets ramped to a top set, or (warm ups )and sets at the same weight?


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Mingster said:


> Day 1. Bench x5. Bent Rows x3. Bench Dips x2.
> 
> Day 2. Squat x5. SLDL x3. Calf Raises x3.
> 
> ...


Ok so how about this then...

Bench(5x6),Yates row(3x12),Skulls(2x15)Straight pushdowns(1xfailure,high reps)

Squat(5x6),Hammy curls(3x12),standing calfs(3x15),Core

OHP(5x6),Dips(3x12),CGBP(2x8),Cable side laterals(1xfailure,high reps)Core

Deads(5x6),Narrow pulldowns(3x12),Leg press(2x20),extensions(1xfailure,high reps),DB preacher(1xfailure, high reps)

Deload every 8 weeks or so

Small bit of iso work in there to failure just to burn out, after every deload change up a exercise...eg replace Leg Press for Lunges, Narrow Pulldowns for Chins

Go on Ming,tear it apart:laugh:


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Dtlv74 said:


> I agree mate, the foundation of strength and basic size always comes from the compound movements... isolations for finishing once the foundation is largely there.
> 
> I must admit though I am one of those people who seems to have different muscles that respond best (in respect of hypertrophy) to differing reps to failure... generally my chest, back, traps prefer lower heavier reps, but my legs and arms like higher reps.
> 
> ...


I agree with this also. When I was building my physique I stuck more rigidly to the 5x5 style lower rep compound work. These days I tend to do much higher rep compounds. I tend to do 1 major compound - deads, squat, dips - for 6-12 reps, then 1 or two other compounds for a minimum of 10-12 reps and often much, much higher utilising drop sets, negatives, partials etc to up the intensity of the set.



diddler said:


> Is that 5 sets 3 and 2 sets? Same weight after warm up stronglifts style, of ramping up to top set?
> 
> Ta


I would increase weight throughout the 5 sets, one warm up and 2 max effort on the 3 sets, and 2x max effort on the 2 sets.



ash1981 said:


> Ok so how about this then...
> 
> Bench(5x6),Yates row(3x12),Skulls(2x15)Straight pushdowns(1xfailure,high reps)
> 
> ...


No, mate. Looks much better to me:thumbup1: It has your...er, touch to it but that's a good thing. As I've said before, if you give it your best shot I'm sure you will see results. But you have to give it a chance for a decent time period


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

diddler said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> 
> I like the look of that as a change from SL 5x5 . Are the sets ramped to a top set, or (warm ups )and sets at the same weight?


theoretically it could be either, but i'd recommend the same weight if possible


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

Brilliant I'm basing my routines around this thread.

Was on an upper/lower split loved it then moved to (peer pressure) a 4 day split chest, back, legs, etc but found that most dudes doing it in gyms are muscley and ripped yeah, but dwarfs - I want to be a powerhouse

Could I include a punchbag day(various bags) and a running day(spints, bounds, wind sprints, etc..) along with this so basically 4 weights, 2 impact or would that be *suicide*?

Have recently gave up a long term(17 years from age 15) weed addiction (mainly due to this site tbh and units I training with) and have a very good recovery now.

Training 17 month now but with consistency for 7 months.

EDIT: want 6 days to keep me on straight and narrow but not if its counter productive to my progress- my other bigy is binge drinking 24hour sessions etc but have it down to once every 2 months and headed home just as party was getting going on Sat night thinking sh it I wont be able to train properly on Monday if I keep drinking


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I think you could include anything you want as long as it doesnt effect recovery time and also make sure your eating/drinking enough


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

ash1981 said:


> I think you could include anything you want as long as it doesnt effect recovery time and also make sure your eating/drinking enough


Thanks Ash. Yeah Im eating and drinking enough that for sure feel like macro machine last couple of months and supplement cupboard is bulging.

Will just need to try it see how I get on. Can't believe how good my recovery time is being weed free, sleeping really well now also so prob this combined with body not having to recover from drugs- perfect.

Strange to think that a website could get me off the drugs :laugh: never really wanted away from it just priorities are different now


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

chinup said:


> Brilliant I'm basing my routines around this thread.
> 
> Was on an upper/lower split loved it then moved to (peer pressure) a 4 day split chest, back, legs, etc but found that most dudes doing it in gyms are muscley and ripped yeah, but dwarfs - I want to be a powerhouse
> 
> ...


It depends on your goals, but boxing dramatically affects upper body lifting recovery. Especially if you are natty. Sprinting is fine. Do it the day after squats (or another day later) and never the day before.

Swimming or something low impact GPP would be a good idea. Look into sled drags, prowler or even kettle bells instead.


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> It depends on your goals, but boxing dramatically affects upper body lifting recovery. Especially if you are natty. Sprinting is fine. Do it the day after squats (or another day later) and never the day before.
> 
> Swimming or something low impact GPP would be a good idea. Look into sled drags, prowler or even kettle bells instead.


Goals are to keep progressing just now with lifts and get ripped up (or just lose most of this huge ring round waist) over next couple of months.

Long term is strongman under 90kg stuff but next couple month just to get leaner and more explosive.

Not fan of kettles tbh think it watching so many puny personal trainers and their feeble clients that has put me off them stupid I know.

Will have a look at prowler thanks very much 

Should have access to a sled next month.

Yeah Natty bro but have some natural test boost tabs for next 2 months just to perk me through. Have gym sorted now and after my dental wounds heal (butchered a few hours ago) I'm planning on posting a journal based on this upper/lower thread and bits pieces taken from Ewans, Strongmanmatts, etc... threads as well

split would be

Low rep Upper

Low rep Lower

Running type moves

High rep Upper

High rep Lower

bags and pads

rest


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I'd drop the boxing and look intro power, sled, sprinting, jumping

google "westside GPP". If thats what some of the strongest guys in the world use for conditioning then its good enough for you


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

chinup said:


> Thanks Ash. Yeah Im eating and drinking enough that for sure feel like macro machine last couple of months and supplement cupboard is bulging.
> 
> Will just need to try it see how I get on. Can't believe how good my recovery time is being weed free, sleeping really well now also so prob this combined with body not having to recover from drugs- perfect.
> 
> Strange to think that a website could get me off the drugs :laugh: never really wanted away from it just priorities are different now


Yea i smoked it for about 10 years solid, it ruled my life, was just always on a mission to get a ten bag,no matter what time of day it was,couldnt afford anything else


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I'd drop the boxing and look intro power, sled, sprinting, jumping
> 
> google "westside GPP". If thats what some of the strongest guys in the world use for conditioning then its good enough for you


westside GPP- On it just now cheers.

Am planning on single leg bounds, double leg bounds, mma sprawls into air jumps as part of running day? Would they cover the jumping you recommend?

Wont have access to box for box jumps on this training day

Like the boxing as live in Glasgow, the murder capital of Europe, and like my new muscle being effective if push comes to shove. Been hitting bags throughout life gives me real buzz as well.


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

ash1981 said:


> Yea i smoked it for about 10 years solid, it ruled my life, was just always on a mission to get a ten bag,no matter what time of day it was,couldnt afford anything else


No prob getting it last few years place is saturated with it. On a mission yeah! :laugh: mind I even phoned in sick to work once so I could get some :wacko:

Thinking on it now I've saved fortune already


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

chinup said:


> No prob getting it last few years place is saturated with it. On a mission yeah! :laugh: mind I even phoned in sick to work once so I could get some :wacko:
> 
> Thinking on it now I've saved fortune already


Mate i pinched my mums car to get some, walked 10 miles there and back to get some, smoked it at work, in my bedroom.

I was a mess


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

I've taken this thread right off track and I apologise for this just curious as to what to include round my Upper / Lower split.

Will be taking collagen (10 gram a day), arginine (raw few gram in morning) and usn jointplex (2 x twice daily) do yous think that combined with the impact cardio and weights this could

thicken/strengthen my bones(weights and impact training does this), plates (arginine) and tendons (collagen). I only want to do this cycle for 60 days then just uppr lower 4 day split with 1 cardio

but don't wan't joint issues due to overtaining but could it actually benefit me long term in terms of tendons and plate thickness ? or am i pie in the sky with my logic???


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

ash1981 said:


> Mate i pinched my mums car to get some, walked 10 miles there and back to get some, smoked it at work, in my bedroom.
> 
> I was a mess


Well your sorted now Bro and looking powerful


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> This can be tweaked a lot to personal interests, but has served me very well
> 
> Upper1
> 
> ...


Hey mate, I'm interested in using a routine such as this. I've currently been using 3x per week DC and i love it primarily because of the short durations. Despite being a relative beginner with only a few years experience, the intensity wasn't a problem for me as it was quick which is a big deal to me with my lifestyle. That being said I feel like I need a change of routine. My question with the Upper/Lower split is do you take each of the sets of 5 listed to failure? Or should it be the same weight for each set making sure that 5 can be achieved on the last set and then increasing it next time?


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

chinup said:


> I've taken this thread right off track and I apologise for this just curious as to what to include round my Upper / Lower split.
> 
> Will be taking collagen (10 gram a day), arginine (raw few gram in morning) and usn jointplex (2 x twice daily) do yous think that combined with the impact cardio and weights this could
> 
> ...


I wouldnt say pie in the sky.

I have found that using cod liver oil wonders for my joints. Tea spoon in the morning, mix with water, rough as fck but its do-able


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

bigtommay said:


> Hey mate, I'm interested in using a routine such as this. I've currently been using 3x per week DC and i love it primarily because of the short durations. Despite being a relative beginner with only a few years experience, the intensity wasn't a problem for me as it was quick which is a big deal to me with my lifestyle. That being said I feel like I need a change of routine. My question with the Upper/Lower split is do you take each of the sets of 5 listed to failure? Or should it be the same weight for each set making sure that 5 can be achieved on the last set and then increasing it next time?


Personally and what i have been advised in the past is to get heavier through the weights and reps, so if you start with 50kg bench for 15 reps(set 1) then 60kg x 12(set 2), and so on until you get to your heaviest set and lowest rep range, 100kg x 4 for example

Even if you are stuck at this weight for 3 weeks or so as long as say on set 3 you go from 70kg x 10 reps to say 72.5kg for the 10 then you are making progress, it all adds to being able to push more on that last set

Cant believe i write this stuff but somehow struggle to put it into practise myself sometimes


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

ash1981 said:


> I wouldnt say pie in the sky.
> 
> I have found that using cod liver oil wonders for my joints. Tea spoon in the morning, mix with water, rough as fck but its do-able


Yeah joints are fine the now, overtrained recently by doing 2-3reps on squats and deads 2 days in row and was really stiff but the USNjointplex sorted it out in few days

(previously last year I'd have taken week or two off thats how pathetic last years training was)

but literally want bigger plates, fatter bones and meatier tendons so hope the collagen (10 gram a day), arginine (raw few gram in morning) and usn jointplex (2 x twice daily)

will help me get this when combined with hardcore upper/lower split and impact cardio

Want these as think it will help me further down the line with lifts?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Hey mate, I'm interested in using a routine such as this. I've currently been using 3x per week DC and i love it primarily because of the short durations. Despite being a relative beginner with only a few years experience, the intensity wasn't a problem for me as it was quick which is a big deal to me with my lifestyle. That being said I feel like I need a change of routine. My question with the Upper/Lower split is do you take each of the sets of 5 listed to failure? Or should it be the same weight for each set making sure that 5 can be achieved on the last set and then increasing it next time?


The latter, I don't train to failure (well avoid doing it too often). Start at a modest weight work up each week. There are various things you can do when you max out. What I would recommend doing is dropping to 2x5 and 3 x 8 and keep increasing weight. once you fail here, go back to the same weights you failed (or almost failed at) for 3x5 and 4 x 10 hopefully you should get these up fine this time

If you want to save time you can superset the push/pull exercises. I can get it done and showered within a lunch break


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

chinup said:


> westside GPP- On it just now cheers.
> 
> Am planning on single leg bounds, double leg bounds, mma sprawls into air jumps as part of running day? Would they cover the jumping you recommend?
> 
> ...


mental health is equal if not more important than physical health. So do what you have to do. I'd focus on speed and technique rather than imagining you caught the bag in bed with your misssus


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea it will help you no end for sure it certainly wont hinder you.

A lad who i used to train with always said that higher reps will increase connectivity tissue strength.

Going on how Mingster trains i think the deload week applied every 6/8 weeks will be for this reason.

I also read yesterday that instead of lowering the weight on deload just decrease the amount of sets, that way your muscle are still lifting the same weight just not as many times, which makes sense to me as the 'going backwards' feeling is never good


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

ash1981 said:


> Personally and what i have been advised in the past is to get heavier through the weights and reps, so if you start with 50kg bench for 15 reps(set 1) then 60kg x 12(set 2), and so on until you get to your heaviest set and lowest rep range, 100kg x 4 for example
> 
> Even if you are stuck at this weight for 3 weeks or so as long as say on set 3 you go from 70kg x 10 reps to say 72.5kg for the 10 then you are making progress, it all adds to being able to push more on that last set
> 
> Cant believe i write this stuff but somehow struggle to put it into practise myself sometimes


Cheers mate.

I'm still slightly puzzled though as the routine generally outlines 3 sets of 5 yeah? So 5 reps each time? It cant be 5 reps to failure each set with the same weight so this would mean making the sets profressively lighter or else it means that the first two arent to failure?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> The latter, I don't train to failure (well avoid doing it too often). Start at a modest weight work up each week. There are various things you can do when you max out. What I would recommend doing is dropping to 2x5 and 3 x 8 and keep increasing weight. once you fail here, go back to the same weights you failed (or almost failed at) for 3x5 and 4 x 10 hopefully you should get these up fine this time
> 
> If you want to save time you can superset the push/pull exercises. I can get it done and showered within a lunch break


Gotchya!

So basically its all geated toward the final set and hitting a max here. The first two would stop at 5 short of failure?

Will take a bit of adapting to as i'm used to rest pausing 3 times to faikure each time on every exercise lol.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

bigtommay said:


> Cheers mate.
> 
> I'm still slightly puzzled though as the routine generally outlines 3 sets of 5 yeah? So 5 reps each time? It cant be 5 reps to failure each set with the same weight so this would mean making the sets profressively lighter or else it means that the first two arent to failure?


No mate there not, you can either say warm up with the a weight 50% of max weight then go for it with those 3 sets of 5 reps or just forget the rep range and go for 5 sets of 15,12,10,8,6. 3 sets of 15,12,8. Go like that if you want:thumbup1:


----------



## chinup (Apr 5, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> mental health is equal if not more important than physical health. So do what you have to do. I'd focus on speed and technique rather than imagining you caught the bag in bed with your misssus


Pad work or light bags for speed my man.

Technique is there to an extent. Speed isn't something you go for when doing heavy bag work aim is to really smash it.

Mental health is paramount I agree- wonder how fried my brain actually is?? bubblegum?

If the bag had been in bed with my missus it would be too tired out and prob looking for a rest


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

nope.

week 1 = 3 sets of 5 reps @ 80KG

week 2 = 3 sets of 5 reps @ 82.5KG


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> nope.
> 
> week 1 = 3 sets of 5 reps @ 80KG
> 
> week 2 = 3 sets of 5 reps @ 82.5KG


My apologies, im having trouble with this due to the current training system.

With three sets at the same weight is it essentially just playing the numbers game irrespective of whether theres more in the tank?

For instance say on a final set when youre at 5 and feel you can hit 6 do you go for it?

Also, if the first and second set is at the same weight and reps as the final then this woukd suggest that they are being cut short of their maximum? Woukd this be correct?

For example

1st set fresh so could manage 8 reps but stop at 5

2nd more fatigued than before first set ...csn manage 6 but stop at 5

Final set a lot more fatigue so near max intensity totry and push out 5

Am i thinking along the right lines?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Bingo. Your primary goal is hit your target and move the weight up each week


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Bingo. Your primary goal is hit your target and move the weight up each week


Awesome. I was just struggling to follow as i'm used to hitting total failure on most sets. Looking forward to upping the weights a bit and lowering the rep range.

Thanks Mate


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Welldone. You are on the journey to awesome


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Awesome. I was just struggling to follow as i'm used to hitting total failure on most sets. Looking forward to upping the weights a bit and lowering the rep range.
> 
> Thanks Mate


if you find yourself struggling to control your ego and are desperate to have some fatigue you can do it on the last set of an exercise ie

5 reps of 80KG

5 reps of 80KG

AMRAP (as many reps as possible) of 80KG

if you can get 8+ move up to 82.KG next session, if you make 6 or 7, just go up to 80KG for 3 sets of 6 reps.

However try to avoid going to absolute failure. ie where you need a spotter to lift the bar and do it to positive failure ie.where it becomes a slog and form starts to go to ****, but you lift the bar on your own accord. Use this sparingly as it starts taking its toll.

You should find your lifts going up quicker when training like this and lifting significantly heavier weight will induce hypertrophy better than going to failure with lower weights


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> if you find yourself struggling to control your ego and are desperate to have some fatigue you can do it on the last set of an exercise ie
> 
> 5 reps of 80KG
> 
> ...


Cheers Mate,

This is always a subject that confuses the sh1t out of me if i'm honest.

There are so people recommending to train every exercise to failure for one working set then there are others who say two working sets to failure, then there's those who recommend rest pausing/drop setting to failure each time then there are those who never go to failure. Then there's positive failure like you say. Is there any correct answer or is just specific to the individual.

I just read an old (and great btw) thread by hacks about how to keep gains off cycle and he outlines an ideal sort of routine for un-juiced individuals and in it he recommends low volume sessions with sometimes 1-2 all out working sets which i presume by all out means to failure? (to me all out means to the end surely?) However he does note that for many individuals that 2 all out may even be too many working sets.

My head spins lol. Finding routines is fine however the intensity to apply is the difficult part for me to get to grips with even after a few years of training.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Pm me your email. I don't mind coaching you if you like


----------

