# just lost myself and put a hole in the wall...



## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Yes, i'm feeling all sorts of emotions out of nowhere and very unmotivated....... why ?

Because i work my ass off in the gym 3/4 days a week lifting as heavy as i can and with intensity and when i look in the mirror i see a flabby soft looking man with good gains but hidden under this soft outer layer esp the face/chest/abs areas not so much arms and legs..... that wouldn't be so disheartening had i been eating like a horse... I've actually been cutting back a lot ! so much so that the other night while going to lift my usual WARMUP WEIGHT i almost crushed myself as i failed on the first rep and felt unwell so left the gym... walked in and out in under 10 mins.....

So i'm having a hard time getting my head round what is going on and on top of that feeling like some emotional wreck won't go into how bad but it's bad! and for no reason at all.... Am i under eating so much therefore not got enough energy to heal and to also perform in the gym which led to me failing on a light set and walking out of the gym feeling a mess ? if so then why am i gaining fat ? i have a double chin developing along with a big swollen gut.

If i'm overeating ( which i can't see it being this ) that would explain me looking fat but won't explain me feeling like i need to sleep constantly and why i have no energy at all for my next session...

Anyone able to figure this out ?

Cliff notes:

Feeling weak and tired all the time and failing in the gym on weights i have previously used as a warm up not even max set.

looking fat around face/abdomen and chest area despite working ass off and cutting.

if i'm overeating would explain weight gain but not explain being too tired and weak for next session, if undereating explains weakness and emotions but not weight gain.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

1) Chill out. Taking a whole week off from the gym would probably be a good idea.

2) Track absolutely everything you eat and drink for a couple of weeks in Myfitnesspal, to start to get a better understanding of what you're actually eating.

3) If you post a bit more information about your training routine people may be able to offer some more advice.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> 1) Chill out. Taking a whole week off from the gym would probably be a good idea.
> 
> 2) Track absolutely everything you eat and drink for a couple of weeks in Myfitnesspal, to start to get a better understanding of what you're actually eating.
> 
> 3) If you post a bit more information about your training routine people may be able to offer some more advice.


 1) this works as i have done it in the past i take a week off, i begin to feel less emotional... i begin to thin out almost within a few days which is crazy since i thought it took months to see weight changes... not me i lose what looks like half a stone in a few days of not excercising... and i also look and feel better in general.

But the moment i return to the gym within 2 or 3 sessions it all begins again...... i have even took a full month or two off only to return to the gym feeling great and within a week or two i'm back to looking and feeling crap sometimes even slightly s uicidal.

2) I used to try and count made no difference.... if i cut i end up feeling like crap and messes with me hormonally not to mention the crazy weight gain regardless of the deficit and if eat plentiful to heal properly i feel good overall but get fat as f uck.

3) i do a push routine on mondays - pull - wednesdays and legs - fridays and on sundays do some cardio and isolation machines.... i tend not to take much breaks between sets... hate sitting about... so i go hard for the whole time im in there lifting as heavy as i can finish with ten minute walk then leave.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

fendertele said:


> 1) this works as i have done it in the past i take a week off, i begin to feel less emotional... i begin to thin out almost within a few days which is crazy since i thought it took months to see weight changes... not me i lose what looks like half a stone in a few days of not excercising... and i also look and feel better in general.


 Stress elevates a hormone called cortisol which in terms leads to water retention. When you reduce stress, cortisol drops and the water retention is reversed. I'm pretty sure this is what you've observed.



> But the moment i return to the gym within 2 or 3 sessions it all begins again...... i have even took a full month or two off only to return to the gym feeling great and within a week or two i'm back to looking and feeling crap sometimes even slightly suicidal.


 Weight training should be a fun hobby and should obviously never, ever make you feel suicidal. If you find it does that's a sign to either find a different hobby, or at the very least take it MUCH less seriously. It's a hobby, nothing more. I'll respond to your other points below but you absolutely must put this into sensible perspective, and if you feel anything I'm suggesting will make it more stressful for you, ignore it!



> 2) I used to try and count made no difference.... if i cut i end up feeling like crap and messes with me hormonally not to mention the crazy weight gain regardless of the deficit and if eat plentiful to heal properly i feel good overall but get fat as f uck.


 I'm suggesting you can do it so that you can post some more information so that people can try to help you with your diet. It's impossible for anyone to try to do so based on the information you've given. Note I didn't give you any sort of targets to aim for, simply to track what you normally eat and drink. Don't make any changes because you are tracking.

If cutting makes you immediately feel like complete crap it probably means you've tried to lose weight far too quickly. What macros you eat to reach a particular calorie goal will also affect your hormones.



> 3) i do a push routine on mondays - pull - wednesdays and legs - fridays and on sundays do some cardio and isolation machines.... i tend not to take much breaks between sets... hate sitting about... so i go hard for the whole time im in there lifting as heavy as i can finish with ten minute walk then leave.


 What exercises, sets and reps?


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Honestly I would find a new hobby, but saying that its impossible to give advice untill you post your routine and diet, if you are looking to lose weight I wouldnt try and lose all at once to do over a longer period of time if it's making you feel like that


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Stress elevates a hormone called cortisol which in terms leads to water retention. When you reduce stress, cortisol drops and the water retention is reversed. I'm pretty sure this is what you've observed.


 So how do i lower this ? i mean i can lower it if i stop exercising for a week but it returns after the first session back at the gym and continues as long as i keep exercising, i will literally go to the gym after a few weeks off looking slimmer and defined and will leave that same session looking puffier and retaining water as you say, then the next day i will be even more puffier from retention... if i choose to not attend the gym again as planned the next day i will slowly begin to deflate... if i choose to continue working out it will increase even more.....

So i can't see how i get round this ? if it is indeed cortisol and it takes a week of no exercise to balance out how can i go to the gym every second day without bloating up ?



Ultrasonic said:


> Weight training should be a fun hobby and should obviously never, ever make you feel suicidal. If you find it does that's a sign to either find a different hobby, or at the very least take it MUCH less seriously. It's a hobby, nothing more. I'll respond to your other points below but you absolutely must put this into sensible perspective, and if you feel anything I'm suggesting will make it more stressful for you, ignore it!


 It is fun i love the feeling while at the gym and afterwards for a few hours, then i start to feel jittery,anxious and emotional... then the accompanying physical signs come with it.... then the next day i feel the same and the more i workout the more it spirals.... i begin to feel better when i stop working out... the obvious answer would be not to workout... but i want to be fit and i am also currently shaving my head due to hair loss so i don't wanna be that skinny bald guy... so i need to find a way round this.



Ultrasonic said:


> 'm suggesting you can do it so that you can post some more information so that people can try to help you with your diet. It's impossible for anyone to try to do so based on the information you've given. Note I didn't give you any sort of targets to aim for, simply to track what you normally eat and drink. Don't make any changes because you are tracking.
> 
> If cutting makes you immediately feel like complete crap it probably means you've tried to lose weight far too quickly. What macros you eat to reach a particular calorie goal will also affect your hormones.


 basic day

Breakfast:

Tea

wholemeal bread with a filling usually peanut butter and jam or cheese and ham.

porridge oats made with water/milk and banana or jam for flavor.

breakfast bar on the go.

Lunch:

Sandwich with filling usually meat and cheese or tuna mayo etc....

protoats - little pot of oats with protein in it.

banana

cup of tea.

pre workout :

quick roll and something

rice yoghurt

post workout:

Protein shake with banana blended

2 breasts of chicken with mixed veg a few roast potatoes and gravy.

snacks before bed :

pbandjelly sandwich and cup of tea

piece of dark chocolate.

while working i drink a lot of water as it's manual labour. involving lots of walking and some heavy lifting/pulling.



Ultrasonic said:


> What exercises, sets and reps?


 Oh i do quite a bit because i go fast..

push day

DB chest press = 3x6 max weight

incline hammer press machine = 3x6 max weight

db shoulder press = 3 x 6 max weight

tricep pulldown cable machine = 3 x 6

chest press machine = 3 x6

tricep machine = 3 x 6

shoulder press machine = 3 x6

then i will go to the cable machine and work the same muscles performing standing position so will work the chest again pushing straight out/upwards/downwards chest flys shoulder press etc.....

then go for a walk on the treadmill slight incline.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Charlee Scene said:


> Honestly I would find a new hobby, but saying that its impossible to give advice untill you post your routine and diet, if you are looking to lose weight I wouldnt try and lose all at once to do over a longer period of time if it's making you feel like that


 I have been lifting for over 2 years...... this has been an going thing for me.... resulting in me getting bigger muscle wise but always with fat and water retention over the top of it... and constant periods of stopping due to illness or whatever brought on by lifting.... then returning trying to make little tweaks to see if anything helps but always getting the same results.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Your doing way too many exercises. Why can't you just do one chest press and that's it for chest? Just aim to get better at that exercise. What is the logic in doing more?


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

monkeybiker said:


> Your doing way too many exercises. Why can't you just do one chest press and that's it for chest? Just aim to get better at that exercise. What is the logic in doing more?


 i've always just liked doing it because i feel like i've really had a workout the last part is almost cardio like... so that is the culprit ? overtraining ? i think it's because i'm limited to the gym 3 days a week i think more is better to make up for 4 days off.... which is silly when i think about it as i have a manual labor job also on days off.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

fendertele said:


> I have been lifting for over 2 years...... this has been an going thing for me.... resulting in me getting bigger muscle wise but always with fat and water retention over the top of it... and constant periods of stopping due to illness or whatever brought on by lifting.... then returning trying to make little tweaks to see if anything helps but always getting the same results.


 Training looks poor, IMO you are doing far to much, I would look at some of the routines on here mate you could be getting out so much more of training if you did less, mabye this is why? As for putting on fat when lifting I would defos look at how many calories you are consuming you might be eating to much resulting in fat gain, have you tried cutting? mabye doing this for a bit to get your bf down you might find you look better leaner?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

fendertele said:


> i've always just liked doing it because i feel like i've really had a workout the last part is almost cardio like... so that is the culprit ? overtraining ?


 You can train at a high intensity for a short amount of time or low intensity for a long time.

The only way for me to complete your workouts would be to pace myself but then wouldn't be making progress.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Charlee Scene said:


> Training looks poor, IMO you are doing far to much, I would look at some of the routines on here mate you could be getting out so much more of training if you did less, mabye this is why? As for putting on fat when lifting I would defos look at how many calories you are consuming you might be eating to much resulting in fat gain, have you tried cutting? mabye doing this for a bit to get your bf down you might find you look better leaner?


 i thought i was cutting ? with my lifting at gym and my hard physical job and watching what im eating i woulda thought i was cutting.... but i think the fat gain is in actual fact water retention that doesnt go away until i stop lifting.... so it's catch 22. stop lifting lose water weight but gain fat or keep lifting lose fat but constantly bloated with water.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

monkeybiker said:


> You can train at a high intensity for a short amount of time or low intensity for a long time.
> 
> The only way for me to complete your workouts would be to pace myself but then wouldn't be making progress.


 yeah i kinda go full at it.... from the moment i get in till the moment i leave i'm lifting heavy as possible and without much rest between sets.... i have tried to make myself take rests but i just have it in my head ..... i coulda done another set in that time lol!!! and im always trying to keep it under an hour as i've read it's good for cortisol as i seem to be having cortisol issues from the water retention....

i do not exaggerate when i say when im weight lifting by the end of the week i look like i have been eating 40 big macs a day and within a week of not lifting i can slim down to being able to see my cheekbones and jaw line.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

fendertele said:


> i thought i was cutting ? with my lifting at gym and my hard physical job and watching what im eating i woulda thought i was cutting.... but i think the fat gain is in actual fact water retention that doesnt go away until i stop lifting.... so it's catch 22. stop lifting lose water weight but gain fat or keep lifting lose fat but constantly bloated with water.


 Cuttin is trying to lose weight and retain muscle, bulking is adding muscle, it's very hard to do at the same time I would pick one, you cut by eating less and/or moving more (usually cardio) but you still lift though to keep muscle, I honestly don't know where the bloating is coming from ultrasonic will probz know more, the only thing I would think is stress and non lifting factors, lifting shouldn't bloat you


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

fendertele said:


> yeah i kinda go full at it.... from the moment i get in till the moment i leave i'm lifting heavy as possible and without much rest between sets.... i have tried to make myself take rests but i just have it in my head ..... i coulda done another set in that time lol!!! and im always trying to keep it under an hour as i've read it's good for cortisol as i seem to be having cortisol issues from the water retention....
> 
> i do not exaggerate when i say when im weight lifting by the end of the week i look like i have been eating 40 big macs a day and within a week of not lifting i can slim down to being able to see my cheekbones and jaw line.


 If you are doing that many sets and getting very little rest between sets then you are not lifting as heavy as possible.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Charlee Scene said:


> Cuttin is trying to lose weight and retain muscle, bulking is adding muscle, it's very hard to do at the same time I would pick one, you cut by eating less and/or moving more (usually cardio) but you still lift though to keep muscle, I honestly don't know where the bloating is coming from ultrasonic will probz know more, the only thing I would think is stress and non lifting factors, lifting shouldn't bloat you


 yeah thats what i have been trying to do eat less, lift heavy to keep muscle and adding some cardio be it walking to prevent muscle loss.... i think the water retention is coming from lifting heavy and stressing my body causing cortisol rising and staying high long after lifting... then when it starts to lower i am back in the gym by this point lifting again causing a never ending spiral....

when i stop lifting after a week or so cortisol lowers and the water retention drops.... only to return the moment i lift and stress my body again.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

fendertele said:


> yeah i kinda go full at it.... from the moment i get in till the moment i leave i'm lifting heavy as possible and without much rest between sets.... i have tried to make myself take rests but i just have it in my head ..... i coulda done another set in that time lol!!! and im always trying to keep it under an hour as i've read it's good for cortisol as i seem to be having cortisol issues from the water retention....
> 
> i do not exaggerate when i say when im weight lifting by the end of the week i look like i have been eating 40 big macs a day and within a week of not lifting i can slim down to being able to see my cheekbones and jaw line.


 You can't be lifting heavy as possible if you feel you could add another set in that time mate


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

fendertele said:


> yeah thats what i have been trying to do eat less, lift heavy to keep muscle and adding some cardio be it walking to prevent muscle loss.... i think the water retention is coming from lifting heavy and stressing my body causing cortisol rising and staying high long after lifting... then when it starts to lower i am back in the gym by this point lifting again causing a never ending spiral....
> 
> when i stop lifting after a week or so cortisol lowers and the water retention drops.... only to return the moment i lift and stress my body again.


 Your doing the right things then man to drop the weight, mabye drop some of the excersises and up the rest time slightly you might be putting your body under to much stress doing higher intensity and a f**k load of volume


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

monkeybiker said:


> If you are doing that many sets and getting very little rest between sets then you are not lifting as heavy as possible.


 what i mean is i start off lifting at my max.... then with each exercise afterwards i lift the max i am able to lift at that point... and so on.

so for the dumbell chest press say my max is 35 kg each hand if i do this right away i can do 3 sets, but if i did this last and did the cable stuff first my max would probably be 25 kg each hand by the time i get round to it...

i shoulda said max weight for how much is left in the tank on each workout.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Charlee Scene said:


> Your doing the right things then man to drop the weight, mabye drop some of the excersises and up the rest time slightly you might be putting your body under to much stress doing higher intensity and a f**k load of volume


 yeah i'm just so worried bout losing muscle while cutting i try to lift the same weight as i did while bulking with the same intensity.....

I went in last night for my leg night set up the incline leg press machine to a comfortable warm up weight like usual and nearly crushed myself as my legs gave way and some guy had to come and lift it back up into position for me..... tbh i felt tired and weak before entering the gym and felt even more s**t when i was there... i just left after one failed leg press.. this is why i cant understand whats going on.... if im that tired and weak that would indicate i'm not eating enough more than overeating yet when i look in the mirror i'm looking fatter and softer... so it's messing me up trying to understand how too opposite things are occurring.

if i'm looking fatter and softer then i must be overeating ? if im overeating why am i feeling tired and fatigued and unable to lift at my max ? which leads me to think im undereating..... but then why am i looking fatter and softer... that's probably why i'm feeling so demotivated.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

fendertele said:


> yeah i'm just so worried bout losing muscle while cutting i try to lift the same weight as i did while bulking with the same intensity.....
> 
> I went in last night for my leg night set up the incline leg press machine to a comfortable warm up weight like usual and nearly crushed myself as my legs gave way and some guy had to come and lift it back up into position for me..... tbh i felt tired and weak before entering the gym and felt even more s**t when i was there... i just left after one failed leg press.. this is why i cant understand whats going on.... if im that tired and weak that would indicate i'm not eating enough more than overeating yet when i look in the mirror i'm looking fatter and softer... so it's messing me up trying to understand how too opposite things are occurring.
> 
> if i'm looking fatter and softer then i must be overeating ? if im overeating why am i feeling tired and fatigued and unable to lift at my max ? which leads me to think im undereating..... but then why am i looking fatter and softer... that's probably why i'm feeling so demotivated.


 I think you are just burning yourself out with your workouts.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

monkeybiker said:


> I think you are just burning yourself out with your workouts.


 i guess your right i'll just need to get over the all or nothing attitude i have... if i dont do all that stuff at the intensity im used too i feel like whats the point..it feels like im half assing it.... and as i said i feel great during and right after the workout it's just the recovery period it takes its toll on me physically and mentally.

i will try cutting back on the weight stuff and maybe do more cardio or something to fill my time in the gym or else ill be in and out in 10 mins lol!


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

fendertele said:


> i guess your right i'll just need to get over the all or nothing attitude i have... if i dont do all that stuff at the intensity im used too i feel like whats the point..it feels like im half assing it.... and as i said i feel great during and right after the workout it's just the recovery period it takes its toll on me physically and mentally.
> 
> i will try cutting back on the weight stuff and maybe do more cardio or something to fill my time in the gym or else ill be in and out in 10 mins lol!


 When cutting, keep the intensity (weight) on the bar but cut back the volume compared to when you are bulking, you can have high intensity or volume you can't have both you are burning yourself out, train hard but you need to be smart about it


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Charlee Scene said:


> When cutting, keep the intensity (weight) on the bar but cut back the volume compared to when you are bulking, you can have high intensity or volume you can't have both you are burning yourself out, train hard but you need to be smart about it


 just so i've got this right, when cutting i can either have heavy weight but less rep/sets or lower the weight and have more reps/sets ?

could i sustain the muscle i have using lower weight higher reps or is it advised to keep the weight the same and less reps/sets so when you go back to bulking your still able to lift where you left off ?

cheers,.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

fendertele said:


> just so i've got this right, when cutting i can either have heavy weight but less rep/sets or lower the weight and have more reps/sets ?
> 
> could i sustain the muscle i have using lower weight higher reps or is it advised to keep the weight the same and less reps/sets so when you go back to bulking your still able to lift where you left off ?
> 
> cheers,.


 IMO whatever got you your size when bulking do that but drop the volume, maintain (or add if you can) the same weight on the bar though if that makes sence

this is what lyle McDonald says

"IMO, any training that works for bulking works for cutting but yes, you can/may need to cut the volume (and or frequency), but maintain intensity (weight on bar). So rather than 4 sets of 6-8 + 2-3 set of 10-12 when you had plenty of food to recover from, you drop back to 2 sets of 6-8 and 1 set of 10-12 but try to keep the weight on the bar. What you really don't ever want to do is lower the weight on the bar. That's a fantastic way to lose muscle."


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

Charlee Scene said:


> IMO whatever got you your size when bulking do that but drop the volume, maintain (or add if you can) the same weight on the bar though if that makes sence
> 
> this is what lyle McDonald says
> 
> "IMO, any training that works for bulking works for cutting but yes, you can/may need to cut the volume (and or frequency), but maintain intensity (weight on bar). So rather than 4 sets of 6-8 + 2-3 set of 10-12 when you had plenty of food to recover from, you drop back to 2 sets of 6-8 and 1 set of 10-12 but try to keep the weight on the bar. What you really don't ever want to do is lower the weight on the bar. That's a fantastic way to lose muscle."


 :thumb :thumb


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

right so i'm 6 foot 2 inches and 118 kg .

can hit gym 3 days a week and like the push/pull/leg split.

anyone got any suggestions for a good routine that aint gonna burn me out but i will feel like i've really worked each muscle ?

and any tips for clean bulking cutting... to keep T high which will keep my Cortisol lower...

probably need a whole rework of my routine and diet to suit my crappy hormones.

cheers,.


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

this is where im at taken a couple of weeks ago with the water retention coming down a bit.

suggestions ?


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

back to basics mate, starting strength 5x5

have a diet break, get the mind set right.

have a big posh wannk and go h.a.m


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## Todai (Jul 18, 2010)

get out of bed, do some fasted cardio. 
go to the gym 6 days per week.

you will see improvements - dramatically.

edit - before 'fasted cardio doesn't work better than normal cardio because Lame Norton says so blah blah gang comes along' - go do it, rather than watching youtube videos.


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> back to basics mate, starting strength 5x5
> 
> have a diet break, get the mind set right.
> 
> have a big posh wannk and go h.a.m


 Utter rubbish.....until you got to the posh wank.....you are one smart mofo man :thumb


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

fendertele said:


> i've always just liked doing it because i feel like i've really had a workout the last part is almost cardio like... so that is the culprit ? overtraining ? i think it's because i'm limited to the gym 3 days a week i think more is better to make up for 4 days off.... which is silly when i think about it as i have a manual labor job also on days off.


 What is your job? If this is physically demanding then this could be a significant factor here, on top of your training as others have mentioned.

You want your training, diet and actually amount of sleep to allow your body to recover and grow between sessions. Having realistic expectations so that you don't add psychological stress into the mix will help too.

Another option to consider would be to alternate your workouts between the lower reps you're doing now and higher rep sessions 10-20 reps).

Are you using any PEDs?

It's not easy to comment on your diet. You look like you're eating a fair amount of food but you have an active job.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

todai said:


> get out of bed, do some fasted cardio.
> go to the gym 6 days per week.
> 
> you will see improvements - dramatically.
> ...


 I'm going to have to disagree with that - the OP is already very active by the sound of it so I really don't think trying to increase this is a good idea.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

If you could put your diet into MFP to give us calorie and macro totals that would help. It may be you'd benefit from a significant increase in carbs.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Are you taking a pre workout? I wonder if theres something in that which is making you feel shitty after a workout ie a caffeine crash


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

hey guys just a little update...

Since the initial post i have been eating like a horse... and i mean a horse and not even watching what i am eating.... mcds... chocolate... etc...

And not been lifting as i have been working away for the last week or so...

and i feel great!!!!! sleeping better and longer hours, my fat appearance has dropped and can actually see definition on body and more importantly my face... and generally feel much better, hadn't put 2 and 2 together but i was always feeling colder than i should have been.... since stopping the lifting and eating like a monster i have overall improved including my mood.

another thing i have also noticed is my muscles feel firm all day round now.... before they only felt firm when i was lifting and for a hour afterwards...

I think the increased eating has helped.... is it possible being that im a big guy naturally and with how intense i was going at the gym and having an active job... walking all day climbing ladders and lifting/pulling things with resistance.... i was needing another 1000/2000 cals a day ?

I can't explain how much better i feel since taking the week off lifting and eating like this... and i have felt this way before when i have had to stop lifting for same reason in the past.... i might just try to be less intense in the gym.... just lift as heavy for 3 set rather than 9-12 sets using different variations.

cheers.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

fendertele said:


> another thing i have also noticed is my muscles feel firm all day round now.... before they only felt firm when i was lifting and for a hour afterwards...


 This might be obvious, but if you were significantly undereating then you'll likely have been significantly glycogen depleted most of the time, and since glycogen pulls water into muscle cells this leads to smaller ('flat') muscles.

Glad you're feeling better  .


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## fendertele (Oct 21, 2015)

forgot to say no not taking anything pre or post workout. just vitamins.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

That's brilliant mate


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## Jayph (Feb 19, 2013)

i was like this after my hernia opp and felt s**t after not doing anything for couple of months what i found out was what works for others dont work for me after spending a bit of time reserching diffrent foods and monitoring my own with mfp and a few HITT sessions my weights coming off nice now. also another one was how many brews in the day at work i was having it all adds up. stick to it mate it will work if you keep chipping away at it


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Jayph said:


> i was like this after my hernia opp and felt s**t after not doing anything for couple of months what i found out was what works for others dont work for me after spending a bit of time reserching diffrent foods and monitoring my own with mfp and a few HITT sessions my weights coming off nice now. also another one was how many brews in the day at work i was having it all adds up. stick to it mate it will work if you keep chipping away at it


 I tend to not drink brews after 6pm now as to ensure the caffeine doesn't keep me awake.


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## Jayph (Feb 19, 2013)

Kill Kcal said:


> I tend to not drink brews after 6pm now as to ensure the caffeine doesn't keep me awake.


 do you find its helped you


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Jayph said:


> do you find its helped you


 Yeah I actually think it has. I also don't drink coke or Dr pepper too late for the same reason. At night I either drink cordial or milk... mostly milk.


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## Jayph (Feb 19, 2013)

Kill Kcal said:


> Yeah I actually think it has. I also don't drink coke or Dr pepper too late for the same reason. At night I either drink cordial or milk... mostly milk.


 am not to fussed about fizzy drinks mostly drink coffee water and the odd pepsi max cherry for a change of water


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Jayph said:


> am not to fussed about fizzy drinks mostly drink coffee water and the odd pepsi max cherry for a change of water


 Fair play


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The dark side is calling you, my friend...


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