# Vegan Bodybuilding



## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi All,

We have seen a large portion of our sales coming through Soya Protein which was a nice surprise. I was wondering if there is a big vegan weight lifting scene or maybe its down to people being lactose intollorent?

any thoughts?


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

Hi Wheyman, I am a vegan bodybuilder. I use 200-250g of Soy Protein Isolate per day along with soy mince. I eat vegetables, rices, pulses, beans, grains, oats and nuts and get a very varied diet.

A lot of people imagine that a vegan's diet would not contain enough protein, but they could not be further from the truth. My diet gives me the full spectrum of amino acids and I gain quite well.

A plus side of soy isolate, is that it actually contains more arginine and glutamine (after its conversion from glutamic acid - 50% in whey and 80% in soy) than whey protein.

Since becoming a vegan I have not experienced any wind, bloat, stomach discomfort, etc, and all the general sensations I experienced in my stomach, intestines, and colon when eating flesh, eggs and dairy.

The myth that soy is estrogenic is just that; a myth. That assumption based on the actions of phytoestrogens has been proved wrong and it has been established that soy does not decrease testosterone and increase estrogen. I do not have man-boobs and I consume massive amounts of soy - point proven with anecdotal evidence as opposed to chinese whispers.

I think you will see the sales of soy increase once people step away from the marketing lead indoctrination that whey is superior - it is not, and realise it is a cheaper alternative. They can be mixed together for those who insist on putting dairy through their digestive systems.


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## iMunkie (Aug 10, 2011)

I know this is slightly off topic, but what are the advantages of using Soy Protein over the whey protein?

Back on topic, 3 of my mates that I train with have all recently turned vegan (or close to it). Not sure why exactly, but it seems like it's quite big in the gym I go to!


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## andy (Jul 3, 2011)

i actually toyed with the idea of becoming vegetarian (not vegan) for a while, cos my wife is.

theres a guy on youtube. scoobys his name and hes vegan, and hes done well.

scoobys workshop i think its called


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

Brecon said:


> I know this is slightly off topic, but what are the advantages of using Soy Protein over the whey protein?
> 
> Back on topic, 3 of my mates that I train with have all recently turned vegan (or close to it). Not sure why exactly, but it seems like it's quite big in the gym I go to!


Soy is comparable to whey, but it does contain considerably more arginine and glutamine than whey. Not many know that!

100g of whey isolate has 2g of arginine and 9g glutamine (18g glutamic acid after its conversion is 50% glutamine in whey).

100g of soy isolate has 7.6g of arginine and 15g glutamine (19g glutamic acid after its conversion is 80% glutamine in soy).


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

I think without protein powders it becomes a more difficult matter entirely to get enough protein, but definitely can be done with some effort.

Supplementation is a given due to the nature of the diet (iron, calcium, B12 all become an issue on a vegan diet), which goes slightly against the principles of the vegan movement.

I'm personally not sold on it as an ideal diet for bodybuilding purposes, although I commend the OP for persisting with it and making gains


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I used to be in touch with a PT who built an excellent physique as a natural and vegan bodybuilder, and as a PT he led a fair few vegans with bodybuilding aspirations to develop very good physiques too - a couple competed and did well if I recall correctly. Is definitely very possible to do well on a vegan diet so long as the diet allows for adaquate protein intake.

Soy isn't a bad protein at all, and I agree with comments above about the fears of soy estrogens being problematic for testosterone - really isn't anything to worry about... infact the only consistenly measured effects of soy phytoestrogens on men is a reduction in prostrate cancer risk, as the main action of soy phytoestrogens is to reduce the action of DHT in the prostrate, and DHT is the metabolite of testosterone which increases risk of prostrate issues.

Soy isn't the only protein good for vegans though - hemp protein has an excellent amino acid profile (although not the best tasting protein concentrate), and pea and rice protein powders are also good (and work very well combined for a mild tasting mix that has a superb amino profile).

Some good other vegan supps out there too such as algae derived EPA and DHA, a very pure alternative to fish oil supplements.


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

I believe there are even a few big MMA fighters that are vegans.


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

RickMiller said:


> I think without protein powders it becomes a more difficult matter entirely to get enough protein, but definitely can be done with some effort.
> 
> Supplementation is a given due to the nature of the diet (iron, calcium, B12 all become an issue on a vegan diet), which goes slightly against the principles of the vegan movement.
> 
> I'm personally not sold on it as an ideal diet for bodybuilding purposes, although I commend the OP for persisting with it and making gains


Again, a proper varied vegan diet does not require supplementation. B12 can be found in lots of food that isn't meat, eggs or dairy. There is also another indoctrinated myth regarding calcium. Only 15-20% of calcium derived from dairy produce can be digested by the body, whereas 100% derived from vegetables sources is digested. As for iron, again people assume it must come from meat, when in fact, there is more iron in 200g of spinach than there is in 2000g of steak.

Aside from eating meat for protein, meat-eaters really consume the majority of their vitamins and minerals from vegetables, fruits, pulses, beans, oats, breads, and nuts.

In fact, I would go as far as to say, that there are probably 'some' meat-eaters who actually do not have a varied enough diet to consume all the necessary aminos, vitamins and minerals, but labour under the impression they do.

I have also tried pea and rice protein and still have them on occasion.

A tin of beans on 2 pieces of whole meal bread yields roughly 30g protein, the small bags of mixed nuts and seeds I buy yield roughly the same, and the bags of soy mince I buy yield 75g of protein, so I do not derive 'all' my protein from soy isolate shakes.

Knowledge is power :smartass:


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## Bamse (Feb 5, 2011)

RickMiller said:


> Supplementation is a given due to the nature of the diet (iron, calcium, B12 all become an issue on a vegan diet), which goes slightly against the principles of the vegan movement.


Perhaps, but if one is a vegan for health and general well-being reasons, ethico-political ones, this shouldn't be a problem.


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

Bamse said:


> Perhaps, but if one is a vegan for health and general well-being reasons, ethico-political ones, this shouldn't be a problem.


It isn't a problem because iron, calcium, and B12 can be obtained from sources other than meat, eggs, and dairy


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## packard (Oct 2, 2007)

i have heard that soy protein is a anti-nutrient dont no if theres much truth in that tho


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

packard said:


> i have heard that soy protein is a anti-nutrient dont no if theres much truth in that tho


Soy, like many beans, contains phytates that the anti-soy brigade allege block mineral absorption. However, there is no proof that this ever happens in humans. There is also the claim that soy's phytoestrogens can promote cancer. What they don't tell you is that soy's isoflavones are harmless to the human body and have actually been found to block really dangerous chemicals called xenoestrogens and inhibit the growth of cancer. Those who slate soy normally have a financial vested interest in doing so; normally the meat and dairy industries who use diversionary tactics to prevent you learning the truth about their industries and their products.

http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm :smartass:

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/health-nutrition/soy-protein-benefits-use-1.htm :smartass:


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

Interesting stuff, I was thinking about Soy over whey protein as whey seems to give me terrible stomach bloat and cramps!


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Interesting stuff, I was thinking about Soy over whey protein as whey seems to give me terrible stomach bloat and cramps!


Whey is dairy, and digestive issues are extremely common with dairy, as are respiratory problems.

Read the second link I added; it is quite interesting regarding soy isolate's stimulation of T4 production :tongue:

I also saw a seminar where it was shown that milk/whey increases IGF-1 by 36% and soy isolates increase IGF-1 by 69%. Not sure how comprehensive the research was, but that would cause some serious growth. Probably explains why I am growing like a weed !!


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## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

DeanoXman said:


> A tin of beans on 2 pieces of whole meal bread yields roughly 30g protein, the small bags of mixed nuts and seeds I buy yield roughly the same, and the bags of soy mince I buy yield 75g of protein, so I do not derive 'all' my protein from soy isolate shakes.


Correct me if Im wrong but the 30g of protein you'd get from beans on toast is not complete protein and would not have the same bioavailability as 30g of protein from egg whites for example.


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Wheyman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> We have seen a large portion of our sales coming through Soya Protein which was a nice surprise. I was wondering if there is a big vegan weight lifting scene or maybe its down to people being lactose intollorent?
> 
> any thoughts?


here is a runner talking about protein....and the fact he doesnt eat meat, yet for a runner he is 15lbs over weight with muscle


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> Correct me if Im wrong but the 30g of protein you'd get from beans on toast is not complete protein and would not have the same bioavailability as 30g of protein from egg whites for example.


Yeh, I know that, but I have a soy isolate shake with that, and the meal is then complete, so I do not need eggs.

I was simply highlighting the fact that the protein I eat does not just come from soy isolate.

Similarly, just eating meats on their own during the day would not provide a complete amino meal. You would need to have a shake with the meat or another form of protein.

As Paul Borreson said, "Tuna is good for one thing, building a tuna, not a human".

The body is clever and holds the amino pool until all aminos are available in any event.

I was also under the impression that the BV rating has been found to be a quite crude way of determing a protein's value.


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

cas said:


> here is a runner talking about protein....and the fact he doesnt eat meat, yet for a runner he is 15lbs over weight with muscle


I think I have seen ths guy before. Is he the guy who suggests we don't even need protein?


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## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

DeanoXman said:


> I think I have seen ths guy before. Is he the guy who suggests we don't even need protein?


Yeah, lol, he's a vegan who doesn't eat nuts, soya or any king of legumes.He reckons he gets his amino's from salads and spinach as long as its raw and not cooked.lol


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## DeanoXman (Dec 4, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> Yeah, lol, he's a vegan who doesn't eat nuts, soya or any king of legumes.He reckons he gets his amino's from salads and spinach as long as its raw and not cooked.lol


Sounds like a bit of a whack-job to me :blink:


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

I am looking for a vegan bodybuilder to use in an article we are going to PR and release anyone want to be featured (you have to be vegan)


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Wheyman said:


> I am looking for a vegan bodybuilder to use in an article we are going to PR and release anyone want to be featured (you have to be vegan)


As long as you don't need to look like one!! Ive been vegan for 12 months but come from an endurance background so am not the biggest.

Out of interest, what flavours do you do? Any chance of some samples?


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

Robbie

in soya we do unflavoured and strawberry.

I love the strawberry flavour.

Private me for a sample


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