# Losing weight - Cutting to 10% BF.. Advice required



## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hey guys

First post on the forum and I was looking for some advice. I am aware that information is key to working out what's the best way to tweak at training/diet plan for everyone

I was hoping the following information may be of assistance in getting some constructive feedback.

*Statistics*:


Height: 5 ft 11" (adjusted after miss type) 
Weight: 13stone 12 lbs
Body Fat: 22.9% (According to Fitbit scales) 
Age: 32
History: Weight trained for 10 years so good core strength
Enhancements: None taken and I will stay natural 

*Requirements/goals:*


Reduce body fat: 10% (Target BF)

*Reason for goals:*


Got married, lazy and put on far to much weight in a 18 month period!

*Current calories in/out:*


3050 calories used by my body a day (According to 12 weeks of fitbit recorded data) 
2150-2450 calories consumed a day on average. 
600-800 calorie deficit a day (Assumed 6 days to lose 1lb of weight if maintained) 

*Diet plan statistics: *


60.7g - Fat intake (25%) - 9 calories per gram (546.3 calories)
217.1g - Carb intake (41%) - 4 calories per gram (868.4 calories)

179.3g - Protein intake (34%) - 4 calories per gram (717.2 calories)

Stats are taken from my Fitbit App (once daily food log has been input) 
**FOUND OUT WHY INACCURATE on original post - Some foods only register total calories, not the break down of fat/protein/carbs**
This is just taking a typical day and can alter day by day depending on type of meat (rice intake etc) 

*Diet plan detailed information:*


Breakfast post cardio: 439 calories - whey protein/eggs/milk/frozen blueberries/flaxseed (have to drink, cant eat in a morning) 
Morning snack: 223 calories - Banana and whey protein 
Lunch: 400-500 calories - Normally fish/meat with rice and veg
Afternoon snack: 276 calories - Tuna in oil with Mayo/MyProtein pancakes
Dinner: 450-550 calories - Usually meat with low GI recipe/plenty veg
Evening snack: 250 calories - Piece dark chocolate/Whey Protein 

*Diet supplements:*


1 * multi vitamin with morning snack
1 * Vitamin C tablet drink
1 * cod liver with morning snack and 1 with afternoon snack

*Training planner:*


Monday morning: 25min HIIT run (outdoor)

Monday evening: 45min weight training upper body
Tuesday morning: 45min cycling (outdoor)
Wednesday morning: 30mins Yoga
Wednesday evening: 45mins weight training lower body
Thursday morning: 25mins HIIT rowing (indoor) 
Friday morning: 25min HIIT run (outdoor)

Friday evening: 45mins weight training upper body 
Weekend - REST (normally a lot of walking though)

*Training additional information:*


Additional info: No less than 10,000 steps a day 
Exact break down of weight training routines can be provided

They include key: Squats, deadlifts, chin ups, rows, bench and core moves with isolation afterwards

Morning training is completed before breakfast as soon as I have woken up. 

*My questions:*


I want to increase the amount of BF% I can lose per week to a maximum and looking for advice on how to achieve this. 
I obviously don't want to lose to much muscle while reducing my fat levels so maintenance is key
Is there anything obvious which could be changed within my training planner to increase and speed up my results? 

Looking forward to any assistance or feedback.

Thanks, Garreth


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

For a start your cals are wrong.


34.7g - Fat = 312 Cals
89.1g - Carbs = 356 Cals
127.5g - 510 Cals

Total calories = 1178

Secondly the protein content is too low, youll loose muscle. Your LBM (Lean body mass) is weight minus bodyfat = 194lb minus 23% = 149 lbs. Guides indicate that you should get 1-1.5 g of protein per lb of LBM. So you would want 150-225g of protein in the diet.

If your training 8 times a week what will you do when your weight loss stalls? your already on a 600 calorie defecit. Your options then would be to increase training beyond this 8 sessions or drop the cals even further?

Is your morning cardio sessions fasted? Or after breaky?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> For a start your cals are wrong.
> 
> 
> 34.7g - Fat = 312 Cals
> ...


As already pointed out, your cals are wrong, which makes me think everything else you've written is also wrong.

You are going all out too soon. You need to hold back on too much cardio too soon. Else all you have to play with is calories. You will lose a shed load of muscle doing so much cardio, especially natural.

There is no fast way to lose BF, unless you want to start compromising muscle even more so.

And 5' 12", that makes you 6' in my book lol.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> As already pointed out, your cals are wrong, which makes me think everything else you've written is also wrong.
> 
> You are going all out too soon. You need to hold back on too much cardio too soon. Else all you have to play with is calories. You will lose a shed load of muscle doing so much cardio, especially natural.
> 
> ...


This


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## nibor (Jun 23, 2015)

Don't count on fitbit to be accurate for your cals out, many reports etc of it not being, just use it as a rough guide.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Madoxx said:


> For a start your cals are wrong.
> 
> 
> 34.7g - Fat = 312 Cals
> ...


Hey

*Calorie totals:*

O.k so the Fat/Carb/Protien stats were simply taken from my Fitbit. Once I input everything I eat that day it generated the information for me.

I'll take a look at that and post a more in-depth food analysis of what I am consuming to see what's going wrong there.

*Cardio:*

I've revised the original information to state its when I wake up and before breakfast.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> As already pointed out, your cals are wrong, which makes me think everything else you've written is also wrong.
> 
> You are going all out too soon. You need to hold back on too much cardio too soon. Else all you have to play with is calories. You will lose a shed load of muscle doing so much cardio, especially natural.
> 
> ...


Hey

5ft 12"  Miss typed and adjusted in the spec. I'm just under!

The calorie make-up is from stats produced by my Fitbit. So I'll take a closer look into that.

I'll post a more accurate guide relating to the diet plan to get an idea of where I can adjust and increase protein etc.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Never heard of fitbit, i Use myfitnesspal, great app

So that 3k cals per day maintenance, is that with your current training plan which is what? Lets be honest, you didnt get to 22% BF from training 9 times a week and watching what you ate.....

Your doing weights 3 times a week, why not simply drop your cals by 500 and see if you start loosing. If im right in the sentance above simply watching and tracking your food with good training will initiate the weight loss.Then in a few weeks add in some cardio


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hey

O.k.

I've input my actual diet and what food groups I am eating. I've excluded nuts as I simply can't eat them at all. Make me gag trying which is a shame as I know their good with Protein and fats.

If there's anything else I could add in at various stages of the day to increase the Protein in-take and any other sources?

Or if there is anything else anyone can recommend to include in the diet?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Hey
> 
> O.k.
> 
> ...


Right now the biggest concern is getting your total calories right, and second to that it's what your macros are. What the actual foods and is of lesser importance. But, if you end up being low on the fat front, the first things to think of are oily fish/fish oil capsules and olive oil. Oats actually contain a fair amount of fat if you fancy them as a carb source.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Oh, and I'd also use MFP instead of fitbit, although you still want to check the data for foods the first time you use it.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Right now the biggest concern is getting your total calories right, and second to that it's what your macros are. What the actual foods and is of lesser importance. But, if you end up being low on the fat front, the first things to think of are oily fish/fish oil capsules and olive oil. Oats actually contain a fair amount of fat if you fancy them as a carb source.


Hey

*Fitbit devices:*


Basically this is my watch which has in-built GPS and a battery that lasts 7 days. I wear in 24 hours a day to get my heart beat, steps, calories burnt and you can activate it during cycling and activities to GPS your routes on a map in dependant of your phone. Then when it sees your phone is syncs your live data with your app to give you a more accurate calorie burn for the day. That's why I use fitbit at the moment. I can import and foods from other APPS to get the macros right though I guess!

*Oats and fats:*


Maybe if I add in some oats to my morning shake to increase the calories slightly and increase some fats/carbs there? 
I could also start taking my fish oil capsules with 4 meals instead of 2 to increase the fat there? 

I can't see how to increase Protein easily though to stop the muscle loss previously mentioned by another chap on here.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Hey
> 
> *Fitbit devices:*
> 
> ...


OK if you're using one of those wrist band things I understand where you're coming from. Although I'm sceptical how accurate they may be generally and for weight training they will obviously be poor. If I do squats for example a motion tracker won't know how much weight I'm shifting. Or is there something you enter to try to account for this? Ultimately you'll need to do what the rest of us do, and adjust your calorie intake down until you are losing weight at a sensible rate - any number from an app will only ever been an approximate starting point.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, I'd missed your cod liver oil before and yes you could certainly have more. From an DPA and EPA point of there are better value options, although I know cod liver oil contains some vitamins too. I mentioned fish oil as I didn't think you were having any BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest you should start having loads. Not sure what type of milk you are having, but if it's not whole milk then that is another thing you could change to increase fat.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> OK if you're using one of those wrist band things I understand where you're coming from. Although I'm sceptical how accurate they may be generally and for weight training they will obviously be poor. If I do squats for example a motion tracker won't know how much weight I'm shifting. Or is there something you enter to try to account for this? Ultimately you'll need to do what the rest of us do, and adjust your calorie intake down until you are losing weight at a sensible rate - any number from an app will only ever been an approximate starting point.


Hey

*Calorie count:*


Yea that's fair enough. I think when you activate it for weight training it works from your heart beat to estimate it. I think it under estimates everything to be fair which is o.k I guess to give me an idea of a daily burn rate. 50 mins in the gym for example yesterday was estimated at 300 calories consumed. But either way I'll take on board its all a guideline!

*Milk/oil:*


Currently is skimmed milk in the morning shake
At least 3 portions of fish a week: Salmon/Cod/Prawns etc

*To the good stuff:*


So from all the information provided a few say I need to increase protein. 
Anything else anyone can see I can do to make this a more efficient training/diet planner to maintain or increase fat loss?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?

Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?
> 
> Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?


Well I was under the impression through a stack load of reading that dropping fat and gaining muscle at the same time without steroid assistance is almost impossible.

So I was going to get down to about 10% then change the diet plan to a clean bulk if possible and start to build up some solid mass and strength again. So yes I certainly want to add muscle size once I've a better cut. Or same time if I can?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, I'd missed your cod liver oil before and yes you could certainly have more. From an DPA and EPA point of there are better value options, although I know cod liver oil contains some vitamins too. I mentioned fish oil as I didn't think you were having any BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest you should start having loads. Not sure what type of milk you are having, but if it's not whole milk then that is another thing you could change to increase fat.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, I'd missed your cod liver oil before and yes you could certainly have more. From an DPA and EPA point of there are better value options, although I know cod liver oil contains some vitamins too. I mentioned fish oil as I didn't think you were having any BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest you should start having loads. Not sure what type of milk you are having, but if it's not whole milk then that is another thing you could change to increase fat.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, I'd missed your cod liver oil before and yes you could certainly have more. From an DPA and EPA point of there are better value options, although I know cod liver oil contains some vitamins too. I mentioned fish oil as I didn't think you were having any BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest you should start having loads. Not sure what type of milk you are having, but if it's not whole milk then that is another thing you could change to increase fat.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, I'd missed your cod liver oil before and yes you could certainly have more. From an DPA and EPA point of there are better value options, although I know cod liver oil contains some vitamins too. I mentioned fish oil as I didn't think you were having any BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest you should start having loads. Not sure what type of milk you are having, but if it's not whole milk then that is another thing you could change to increase fat.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

We know your sorry chill out man lol.

Site has went nuts....


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry for the repeat posts, phone was giving errors...


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Double post! :huh:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Double post!


Just double? Amateur


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sorry, I'd missed your cod liver oil before and yes you could certainly have more. From an DPA and EPA point of there are better value options, although I know cod liver oil contains some vitamins too. I mentioned fish oil as I didn't think you were having any BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest you should start having loads. Not sure what type of milk you are having, but if it's not whole milk then that is another thing you could change to increase fat.


(Not sure if you saw my reply due to forum glitch and the multi posts!)

*Milk/oil:*


Currently is skimmed milk in the morning shake
At least 3 portions of fish a week: Salmon/Cod/Prawns etc

*To the good stuff:*


So from all the information provided a few say I need to increase protein. 
Anything else anyone can see I can do to make this a more efficient training/diet planner to maintain or increase fat loss? 



Natty Steve'o said:


> Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?
> 
> Do you just want to drop fat or do you want to build muscle too?


(Not sure if you saw my reply due to forum glitch and the multi posts!)

*Gaining muscle while cutting down:*

Well I was under the impression through a stack load of reading that dropping fat and gaining muscle at the same time without steroid assistance is almost impossible.

So I was going to get down to about 10% then change the diet plan to a clean bulk if possible and start to build up some solid mass and strength again. So yes I certainly want to add muscle size once I've a better cut. Or same time if I can?


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hey folks.

*Updated original information:*

O.k I've updated with original spec after some questions were asked to make it more accurate with what advise I am after.

*Diet/training tweaks:*

So to improve my results, reduce muscle lose while cutting is there any further advice available?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Have you worked out what your actual macros are now?


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Have you worked out what your actual macros are now?


Hey

Yea. Spent a bit of time this evening working out which foods at missing Macro data on the app and getting the information updated and correct.

So I've just updated the original information taking into account an average day. I can now see carbs are high compared to Fats. Protein seems o.k...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Yeah, macros look sensible, but if you do decide to drop calories further it is carbs I would be reducing. And if you do want to increase the rate of fat loss this is what I'd do. Maybe try dropping to 2000 kcal per day.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

I would still advised against 25min fasted HIIT


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Actually I should have asked, how fast are yet currently losing weight?


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ah. multi-quote didn;t work properly. I;ll do that again.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Madoxx said:


> Hey. What's the reason behind this?
> 
> At the moment. About 1lb a week in reality according to the scales.
> 
> ...


CAN YOU DELETE POSTS ON THIS FORUM?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> CAN YOU DELETE POSTS ON THIS FORUM?


I don't think so, since the update.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I would leave fat where it is and just reduce carbs so you're at 2000 kcal per week. If you're already losing 1 lb per week you don't want to drop intake too much lower. 1-1.5% of body weight per week is usually considered the safe upper limit for weekly fat loss without losing too much muscle.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I would leave fat where it is and just reduce carbs so you're at 2000 kcal per week. If you're already losing 1 lb per week you don't want to drop intake too much lower. 1-1.5% of body weight per week is usually considered the safe upper limit for weekly fat loss without losing too much muscle.


O.k cool. That make sense. Keep it to a steady lose instead of any dramatic drops.

With relation to weight training: Keep it hard and intense with each session. HIIT cardio.... seems to be a split opinion if that's a good idea?

Drop the calories to about 2000 a day with reduced carbs and maintaining the protein at a high level...

Then I'm hopefully about there?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> O.k cool. That make sense. Keep it to a steady lose instead of any dramatic drops.
> 
> With relation to weight training: Keep it hard and intense with each session. HIIT cardio.... seems to be a split opinion if that's a good idea?
> 
> ...


First up you're already doing well as you're steadily losing weight :thumbup1: .

My 2,000 kcal suggestion is partly as I'm not quite sure how consistant you may have been up till now, so stick to as close to 2,000 kcal per day as you can for a couple of weeks as see how you get on. You can then re-assess.

Re. HIIT, first up what you're doing isn't really HIIT if you're doing it for 25 minutes. Proper HIIT is very instense short bursts, like e.g. this:






This doesn't in any way mean that the interval training you are doing isn't useful for fat loss, but it does mean some of the specific benefits of HIIT from study data don't apply, but also the risks of muscle loss that are raised probably aren't so relevent. To my mind, the most important factor for muscle retention is your weight training, so the main thing to watch is that your cardio doesn't detract too much from the effort you can put in at the gym.

In terms of training fasted, there is evidence of this causing catabolism (muscle loss) when muscles are completely glycogen depleted, but this won't be the case for you at the moment.

Ultimately though, since what you've been doing has been working for you, stick with it. But I wouldn't be looking to add in any more cardio (you're already doing a lot), so any further changes to improve fat lost should be from reducing calories IMHO.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> First up you're already doing well as you're steadily losing weight :thumbup1: .
> 
> My 2,000 kcal suggestion is partly as I'm not quite sure how consistant you may have been up till now, so stick to as close to 2,000 kcal per day as you can for a couple of weeks as see how you get on. You can then re-assess.
> 
> ...


Hi

O.k this is fantastic. Thank you very much and answers petty much most things I wanted to know about and I'll carry on and see how it carries on going for the next 4-8 weeks and what results are coming through. I'll read into HIIT more as well to see if I can alter my initial routine to be more effective.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I'll read into HIIT more as well to see if I can alter my initial routine to be more effective.


What I would do personally is replace all of your HIIT with lower intensity cardio, but you'll get a range of opinions on this.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> What I would do personally is replace all of your HIIT with lower intensity cardio, but you'll get a range of opinions on this.


I guess because its a morning exercise and while fasted I could simply mix it up. HIIT, HIIT variation and lower intensity cardio through the week. Keep the body guessing and cycling different forms of exercise. I'm also doing Yoga one morning a week as I've realized that 10 years of lifting weights (however much body fat I've put on) I'm massively inflexible with poor balance which as I am getting older is winding me right up. Must admit I've started positive affects from that with joint care and general well being even though I know that's not having an impact of the BF cutting program... Its made me feel better!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I guess because its a morning exercise and while fasted I could simply mix it up. HIIT, HIIT variation and lower intensity cardio through the week. Keep the body guessing and cycling different forms of exercise. I'm also doing Yoga one morning a week as I've realized that 10 years of lifting weights (however much body fat I've put on) I'm massively inflexible with poor balance which as I am getting older is winding me right up. Must admit I've started positive affects from that with joint care and general well being even though I know that's not having an impact of the BF cutting program... Its made me feel better!


Work to improve flexibiltity sounds like a good idea, and something I should probably do more of myself...

Whether fasted cardio has any advantage over non-fasted cardio from fat loss point of view is debatable BTW - I'll let you do your own Googling...


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Work to improve flexibiltity sounds like a good idea, and something I should probably do more of myself...
> 
> Whether fasted cardio has any advantage over non-fasted cardio from fat loss point of view is debatable BTW - I'll let you do your own Googling...


Yea. I found yoga properly hard. I mean sitting cross legged even hard.. But 8 week in I can do some fairly interesting positions for extended periods. Its amazing how tight my HAMS and legs were until I started. I feel its had a positive improvement on my squats and general way of life to be honest. Even showering with better reach so that's staying in the routine even when I get to the BF% I want.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hey

Looking at the new plan I have for this week. I'll be stabilized at around 2000 calories a day with less carbs than the last few weeks

Should I "carb cycle" like I've read a lot about on here or have a re-feed day on 1 day to shock the body? Or just stick to the 2000 calories 7 days a week?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Hey
> 
> Looking at the new plan I have for this week. I'll be stabilized at around 2000 calories a day with less carbs than the last few weeks
> 
> Should I "carb cycle" like I've read a lot about on here or have a re-feed day on 1 day to shock the body? Or just stick to the 2000 calories 7 days a week?


I would keep things as simple as possible for now.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, confused this thread with another one. I wouldn't personally bother with carb cycling as you're active most days, but I would make sure you have some of your carbs just before each training session. Refeeds are a complicated subject, but in the first instance if you aren't finding yourself generally struggling for energy you probably don't need one.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sorry, confused this thread with another one. I wouldn't personally bother with carb cycling as you're active most days, but I would make sure you have some of your carbs just before each training session. Refeeds are a complicated subject, but in the first instance if you aren't finding yourself generally struggling for energy you probably don't need one.


Ah fair enough.

I wouldn't say energy is the issue to be honest so I'll continue.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Ah fair enough.
> 
> I wouldn't say energy is the issue to be honest so I'll continue.


There are two reasons for a refeed meal/day/days. The first is functional, to try to increase leptin levels, which by the sounds of it you don't need. The second though is psychological, which shouldn't be discounted. A planned break is much better than an unplanned binge, both so you don't pointlessly beat yourself up over having 'failed' and because you'll likely eat fewer extra calories.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> There are two reasons for a refeed meal/day/days. The first is functional, to try to increase leptin levels, which by the sounds of it you don't need. The second though is psychological, which shouldn't be discounted. A planned break is much better than an unplanned binge, both so you don't pointlessly beat yourself up over having 'failed' and because you'll likely eat fewer extra calories.


O.k cool

I have a "planned break" for my wife's birthday so i'll work around that day and using the advice from the other thread work out how to calorie manage on that day better too.

Just finished tweaking the next 3 weeks of meal planning so we'll see how progress goes!


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hey

O.k done some tweaking taking on board some comments and a bit more reading.

*Training planner:*


Monday morning: 20min HIIT run (Interval)

Monday evening: 45min weight training upper body
Tuesday morning: 20min cycling (outdoor)
Wednesday morning: 30mins Yoga
Wednesday evening: 45mins weight training lower body
Thursday morning: Rest - No cardio
Friday morning: 25min HIIT run (outdoor)

Friday evening: 45mins weight training upper body 
Weekend - REST (normally a lot of walking though)

*Cardio sessions:*


Reduced to just 20 mins each morning, Intervals just to try and jump start the day.

*Weight training: *


Instead of isolating different body parts on different days i've gone for Upper/Lower split. 
Focusing on core: chin ups, dead-lifts, squats, bench, rows, presses. 
Only 60sec rest between sets and keeping work outs as intense as possible. 

*Calorie in-take:*


Roughly 2100 calories most days. Lower body days trying to increase to 2300. 
More fats/protein in diet last 2 weeks while trying to reduce carb intake without feeling tired. 

*Progress in the last 14 days:*


Scales (However in-accurate they are) are showing BF% down to about 20.5% 
Overall weight reduction is currently about 1.5lbs per week (Steady I guess) 

*Goals:*


Another 8.5% BF feels like its going to take forever at this rate! But I guess just carry on with it. 
Strangely strength hasn't reduced and legs do actually feel stronger! Not sure how. 

*Next question:*


I've got some Animal cuts (fat burners) 10 in a bag per serving which seems quiet something. 
Worth adding these in to give some assistance? Cycle them as it says each 3 weeks? Would I really get any additional gains using them?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Overall weight reduction is currently about 1.5lbs per week (Steady I guess)


That's excellent - keep up the good work :thumbup1: .

The 'fat burner' you've got is a colossal waste of money I'm afraid. Use what you've got as it may have a tiny effect but my advice would be to save your money in future. Don't use it late in the day or the caffeine will adversely affect your sleep (quality as well as duration). You are doing well right now, you don't need to be looking for things like this to help you.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> That's excellent - keep up the good work :thumbup1: .
> 
> The 'fat burner' you've got is a colossal waste of money I'm afraid. Use what you've got as it may have a tiny effect but my advice would be to save your money in future. Don't use it late in the day or the caffeine will adversely affect your sleep (quality as well as duration). You are doing well right now, you don't need to be looking for things like this to help you.


Hey

Ah thanks for the comments. I guess its why i've never stuck it out before and got down to such a lower BF% because it's (as everyone knows) so much harder to cut than bulk. So I don't feel like I am seeing the results but I guess another 5-8 weeks in and other 6lb lost and I should start to look around where I want to be as long as the loss carries on at a continual rate.

Fat burners... Fair enough. Taken on board.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hey

First time tonight I've been attempting and learning front loaded squats instead of always doing rear squats.

I tell you what that was an eye opener and something i'll keep in with my weekly routine. What a fantastic exercise. How i've not done that before I don't know!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Hey
> 
> First time tonight I've been attempting and learning front loaded squats instead of always doing rear squats.
> 
> I tell you what that was an eye opener and something i'll keep in with my weekly routine. What a fantastic exercise. How i've not done that before I don't know!


What do you like about them?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Doing well mate,keep at it


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> What do you like about them?


Seem to be able to press harder through front quads and thighs. So I did 4 sets of rear squats followed by 3 sets of front squats. 4 * 8 and 3 * 6 (slowly increasing weights. Ass to grass style too)


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## carrock (Apr 23, 2013)

GSM-1 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> First post on the forum and I was looking for some advice. I am aware that information is key to working out what's the best way to tweak at training/diet plan for everyone
> 
> ...


Less than 14 stone with 23 per cent body fat means your lean body mass is not much more than 10 stone. This seems very low to me for someone who has weight trained for 10 years. I'd concentrate on getting enough protein and putting muscle on, which you should be able to do. If you lose a bit of fat by dropping carbs and doing a bit of cardio that's a bonus.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

carrock said:


> Less than 14 stone with 23 per cent body fat means your lean body mass is not much more than 10 stone. This seems very low to me for someone who has weight trained for 10 years. I'd concentrate on getting enough protein and putting muscle on, which you should be able to do. If you lose a bit of fat by dropping carbs and doing a bit of cardio that's a bonus.


Hey

Yea... Honestly the lean figure is from a set of scales. I'll be honest I've got a good size chest, thick back and got a good build (apart from poor legs) So I need to have my body fat % checked correctly as I would assume my lean mass will be more than that. That did cross my mind when watching the figure on the scales fluctuate heavily between checking overall weight!


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## carrock (Apr 23, 2013)

GSM-1 said:


> Hey
> 
> Yea... Honestly the lean figure is from a set of scales. I'll be honest I've got a good size chest, thick back and got a good build (apart from poor legs) So I need to have my body fat % checked correctly as I would assume my lean mass will be more than that. That did cross my mind when watching the figure on the scales fluctuate heavily between checking overall weight!


I am the same height with a good size chest and back and my lean body mass is 12 stone. I simply cant believe that anyone of our height who lifts weights and has a bit of size has a LBM of 10 stone


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

carrock said:


> I am the same height with a good size chest and back and my lean body mass is 12 stone. I simply cant believe that anyone of our height who lifts weights and has a bit of size has a LBM of 10 stone


Hey

Yea fair do.

I don't know this will correlate to my muscle mass and size but my strength is adequate. Flat bench: 140kg with bar, bent over rows, dumbbell presses all with 50kg dumbbells etc. Pull ups with additional 20-30kg. All exercises for good number of reps and deep slow Technic.I'll sort some photos when I can!


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

O.k

So with things going well I thought it was time to re-look at the diet and see where I could pack in more Protein a day without making huge dramatic changes.

*References:*



40 top Protein food article - Gotta say I found this reference really helpful. 

Google search info - Type it into Google and it puts this as the NO.1 food (never heard of it, Spirulina) 

*Protein foods/replacements*


I'm thinking on my morning snack I have a banana/protein shake and a load of multi vits and cod liver oil, Change the Banana out for hand full of Sardines 
At lunch with my salmon, chicken and greens.... Take a small 50g Greek yoghurt 
This... Magical Spirulina food I've ordered and gonna try adding into my wake up shake
Gonna swap out the rice I have once a week for some Quinoa. 
Get another portion of pork chops off the bone in there too. 

Hopefully that should help increase the Protein intake without having a bland diet.

Anyone heard of or tried this Spirulina before?


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

O.k

But of an update.

Been playing around with various training splits to see what works for me.

Even though I have been cutting down BF% by strength in certain exercises has increased.

Deadlift for example just got to 150kg comfortably which I am happy with. Just want to get that to 6-8 reps and I'd be very happy.

The food I have to give credit to: Tuna and sardines. These are going down a treat at the moment!


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## boxer dog (Jul 16, 2010)

Hey following this.

Seems like you are going in the right direction, it takes some trial and error eh?

Just wanted to say about your point on Greek yog, I'm currently cutting and wouldn't want to do it without the Fage 0% fat stuff or Yeo valley natural flavour. I look forward to them at lunch, a break from tuna eggs fish or turkey!!


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

GSM-1 said:


> O.k
> 
> But of an update.
> 
> ...


I eat tuna when I cut too.


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Its refreshing to read a topic on weight loss where the OP actually seems committed to research and taking on the advice of experienced forum members.

You're doing excellent so far so keep up the effort! :thumb:


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

DC1 said:


> Its refreshing to read a topic on weight loss where the OP actually seems committed to research and taking on the advice of experienced forum members.
> 
> You're doing excellent so far so keep up the effort! :thumb:


Hey

Thanks chap. Well its a bit like business. Take on criticism and feedback, then adjust what your doing to get better results and better feedback 

I've had a few trips along the way due to stag-do's and wedding's where the diet goes to pot for a weekend here and there but generally progress is good

I'll get some photos up when I feel comfortable with that at some point.


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Bit of an update.

*Weight:* I'm down another 4lbs over the last 4 weeks. So steady 1lb a week.

*Strength: *Strangely going up in areas as previously noted. Changing to a lower/upper split seems to work well for me.

*Cut:* I an certainly see the waist and abs starting to flattened off more than before and more contrast between this area against pecs/lats. With that said. Still such a long way to go to get to 10% BF. At least another 8% left.

*Morning cardo:* Honestly this has gone completely out the window. I can not motivate my self in the mornings as the darker mornings draw in and its cold. I've no interest in going outside so I am now having to rely entirely on my weight training and gym training.

*Gym training: *With the above in mind I've increase to 4 times a week from 3. Still sticking to upper/lower splits but changing the core moves within them to give enough rest. Always a day inbetween as well. So Monday/Upper, Wednesday/Lower, Friday/Upper, Sunday/Lower, Tuesday/Upper etc..etc.. and ensuring key moves such as: Deadlifts, squats, shoulder press, chest press, wide grip pull ups, chin ups are essentially included in the week.

*Diet:* Managing to stick to the 2000-2100 calories well with at least 180g of Protein. Carbs still seem to high some days depending on the pre-planned meals with the wife but I do try to time them with training days. However if we have Carbs are only coming from: Brown rice, cous cous, sour dough, wholemeal wraps and rolled oats. So they are clean Carbs.

*New foods: *We've been introducing "super foods" for general health benefits. So if we have a cous cous salad we squeeze over an orange for vit C (as one example) I'm aware this will increase natural sugar levels though which isn't perfect for cutting so got to get the balance right there.

*Overview: *Generally going well but would prefer faster results (wouldn't we all)


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## GSM-1 (Jul 22, 2015)

Ain't it funny how life can quickly u-turn results!

After 6 weeks of moving house, huge changes at work and generally life getting on top of me, my diet has been fairly rubbish and training has not been good at all.

So it was back to the drawing board last week and get back on the boat.

Changed meals and a planner as well (attached), Obviously the meats each meal will be changed between: Salmon, Chicken breast, Corned Beef, Lean Mince, Quorn.

But its a good idea with a high rate of Protein and training days i'll have a little cous cous for lunch and non-training days cut them out to reduce the Carbs.

See how we get back on!


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