# FAQ on Jabbing



## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

* FAQ on Jabbing*

One of the most important factors when using steroids is safe practice, especially with injectables so I have worked with hacks to compile this info in a clear and consistent manner

It is for the benefit of all those who jab whether you are a newbie about to take the plunge and do your first jab or you are a more experienced user and want to brush up on your technique and refresh your knowledge

http://www.spotinjections.com/

This is a useful site that contains various tips and demonstrations on correct jab technique

Credit to hacks for helping me compile this information and Pauluk27.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

*How to Jab*

All oil based and water based anabolic steroids should be taken intramuscularly. This means the shot must penetrate the skin and subcutaneous tissue to enter the muscle itself. Intramuscular injections are used when prompt absorption is desired, when larger doses are needed than can be given cutaneously or when a drug is too irritating to be given subcutaneously. The common sites for in tramuscular injectons include the buttock, lateral side of the thigh, and the deltoid region of the arm. Muscles in these areas, especially the gluteal muscles in the buttock, are fairly thick. Because of the large number of muscle fibers and extensive fascia, (fascia is a type of connective tissue that surrounds and separates muscles) the drug has a large surface area for absorption. Absorption is further promoted by the extensive blood supply to muscles. Ideally, intramuscular injections should be given deep within the muscle and away from major nerves and blood vessels.

The best site for steroid injections is in the gluteus medius muscle which is located in the upper outer quadrant of the buttock. The iliac crest serves as a landmark for this quadrant. The spot for an injection in an adult is usually to 7 1/2 centimeters (2 to 3 inches) below the iliac crest. The iliac crest is the top of the pelvic girdle on the posterior (back) side. You can find the iliac crest by feeling the uppermost bony area above each gluteal muscle. The upper outer quadrant is chosen because the muscle in this area is quite thick and has few nerves. The probability of injecting the drug into a blood vessel is remote in this area. Injecting here reduces the chance of injury to the sciatic nerve which runs through the lower and middle area of the buttock. It controls the posterior of each thigh and the entire leg from the knee down. If an injection is too close to this nerve or actually hits it, extreme pain and temporary paralysis can be felt in these areas. This is especially undesirable and warrants staying as far away from this area as possible.

* THREE ACCEPTABLE SITES FOR INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTIONS:*

A) BUTTOCK

B) LATERAL SURFACE OF THIGH

C) DELTOID REGION

If the gluteal region cannot be injected for some reason, the second choice would be the lateral portion of the thigh. Usually, intramuscular injections in the thigh are only indicated for infants and children. The vastus lateralis muscle is the only area of the thigh that should be injected intramuscularly. This site is determined by using the knee and the greater trochanter of the femur as landmarks. The greater trochanter is the bony area that you can feel where the femur joins the pelvic girdle. The mid portion of the muscle is located by measuring the handbreadth above the knee and the handbreadth below the greater trochanter. Injecting into the front of the thigh or inside of the thigh is extremely unwise. These areas contain nerves as well as a number of blood vessels.

* WHAT TO USE FOR INJECTIONS*

It is important to choose the proper syringe for the administration of injectable anabolic steroids. The principle components of a syringe include a cylindrical barrel to one end of which a hollow needle is attached, and a close fitting plunger. The most acceptable syringe for injecting anabolic steroids is a 22 gauge 1 1/2" or 23 gauge 1" apparatus with a 3 cc case. This length allows for penetration to reach deep inside the muscle tissue. Shorter needles, 5/8" or 1/2" are usually not sufficient for intramuscular injections and occasionally leave a portion of the Injection in a subcutaneous area which will cause a swell between the skin and muscle as well as impaired absorption. The gauge size of a syringe represents the needle\rquote s diameter. The lower the gauge number, the wider it is. A 27 gauge needle is very thin. An 18 gauge is quite wide; it is often referred to as a cannon. The 22 and 23 gauge needles are not so large that they are difficult to insert, yet are large enough for solutions to easily be propelled through them. The use of insulin needles is not acceptable; they are simply too small. Usually, insulin pins are 25 to 27 gauge and only a 1/2" long with a 1 cc case.

* INJECTION PROCEDURES*

There are a number of steps that should be understood in order to complete a safe and proper intramuscular injection. First off, before handling any needles or vials, the user should take a thorough shower. Next, an alcohol swab should be used to clean the injection site and another alcohol swab should be used to clean the rubber stopper on top of the vial which will be drawn from. Then, take a brand new syringe out of its wrapper, remove its plastic top, draw about 2 ccs of air into it and insert it into the vial. Inject this air into the vial; this creates pressure within the vial and makes it easier to draw out oil based preparations. Then, turn the vial upside-down and slowly draw out the oil until you\rquote ve overdrawn at least 1/4 cc. For example, if someone was going to take a shot of 1 cc, they should pull out approximately 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 ccs of liquid, then tap the side of the case to help get the air bubbles that were drawn into the syringe to come to the top. At that point, the excess 1/4 to 1/2 cc could be injected back into the vial and the needle removed. Then, hold the syringe needle-side-up and continue to tap it to encourage all the air bubbles to come to the top of the syringe. Now, take another clean syringe, remove it from its sterile package and unscrew the needle from the syringe. Exchange the brand new needle for the one that has just been injected into the stopper. By using two needles for every injection, you can take advantage of using the full sharpness of the pin. The needle does suffer some dulling when it is pushed through the firm rubber stopper on a vial. It is important not to touch this needle before the injection. It should not come into contact with a counter top, your fingers, nor should it be cleaned with alcohol. This needle is sterile and should not be touched. At this point, once again swab the injection site with alcohol, then press the stopper of the syringe holding it needle-side-up, until the slight air bubbles that are at the top are pressed out. Once a bead of oil has appeared at the top of the needle, allow it run down the surface of the needle which provides lubrication.

At this time, take the syringe and hold it like a dart. Use the other hand to stretch the skin at the injection site and simply push the sharp clean needle in. After inserting it deep into the muscle, pull back on the stopper for a few seconds to make sure it does not fill up with blood which would indicate that the needle had been injected into a blood vessel. Providing there is no blood present in the syringe, slowly press the stopper down until all the oil is injected. Then, quickly pull the needle out and take another alcohol swab and press firmly on the injection site. This will minimize bleeding, if there is any, and by firmly pressing on the injection site and slightly massaging it, some of the soreness may be eliminated. It is important that the liquid is not injected too quickly as this causes more pain at the site during the injection and in the proceeding days.

After this procedure has been completed, return the plastic caps to shield the needles and make sure they are discarded properly.

To avoid discomfort and excessive scar tissue at the injection site, it is not wise to inject more than 2 ccs of solution per shot. It is also not prudent to use the same injection site more than twice a week (once a week is preferred) .


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

*ON ASPIRATION...*

Yes, aspirating is important, particularly if you are planning to inject a limb. If you are injecting your glutes, you don't need to worry about hitting veins as much, because it's fleshier and not flush with veins at the surface (within 1-1.5") Arms, however, or legs, can be dangerous areas, because they are rife with veins and you could potentially hit one. You don't want an intravenous injection (IV) you want an intramuscular injection (IM) with most AAS. Insulin and GH are a little different and require subcutaneous injections (under the skin only), but that's for another time.

So every time you inject an area that is leaner, has more veins visible, and is an "unknown" kind of area, always pull back the plunger once the needle is in the site. If you pull back and it feels as though it's resistant (how it ought to feel) then you're okay. But if you pull back blood, push the blood back in, slowly, without loading it with the AAS in the syringe too much, and pull the needle out.

Once out, unscrew the needle point and put another on. That needle is now dull and can cause an abscess if injected again. Also, it contains blood now, so don't expose it to air and then re-inject. That's important.

If you are are inexperienced, don't really hit other sites but your glutes in the first couple of years. You need some development to begin site injecting, IMO. Besides, I'm not a big fan of site injecting for most people. It's a tricky business and I've seen too many nightmare infections, abscesses and such.

More info here that I like:

Glute...place thumb tip on your top hip bone, spread your fingers out and straight. Where the tip of your pinky is where you jab

Yes, you have to cycle different body parts due to abcess and plain ole soreness.

Glute and thighs 1.5" and 1" for everything else.

* More on Aspiration:*

Aspiration is a technique used to ensure that needle placement is correct prior to injection. Assuming the correct syringe and needle, after insertion and prior to injection, pull back on the plunger. Resistance should be met and neither blood, air, or material of any kind should return into the syringe. If so discontinue the injection entirerly and repeat. If resistance is met with no aspirate material seen, injection can proceed.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

*Safe injection practice - general rules for ensuring your safety before, during and after a jab*

There are many important facts to take into consideration when administering an injection and if you follow the basic rules, then you will have trouble-free therapy. The points to watch out for are as follows:

* 1.* Never share needles with another person. Destroy after use.

* 2.* Avoid injecting into the exact same area more than twice per week.

* 3.* Keep the area to be injected as clean as possible, use an alcoholic swab.

* 4.* Use a sharp needle every time. Avoid rubbing on the base of the vial.

* 5.* Use two needles if possible. One for pulling, one for jabbing. Stay sharp!

* 6.* Inject slowly, carefully and make sure the jab is all the way in. Under no

circumstances should the fluid be injected just under the skin - it could abscess.

* 7.* Do not worry about a little blood. It could be that you have caught a tiny blood

vessel. Apply firm pressure to the area and it will stop.

* 8.* Tap away all bubbles from the syringe, the minute ones will not cause any

problems as it is an intra-muscular injections and not intra-vascular. Under no

circumstances should you inject into a vein. The bubbles will rise to the top and

then you can dispel any more if you wish without a problem.

credit to pauluk27


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

*How to site inject safely*

I have noticed that there are a lot of posts about site injections that lack important information. After reading them and talking with a couple friends on this subject, I decided that an article might help to clear up a few things. Some common questions are: What gauge needle should on use on which muscle? What areas can I shoot?.

* Traps:* Use 23g x 1.5"needles. Start with 1.5cc work up to 3.5cc When shooting into the traps you need to be careful of the veins and nerves that run up the side of the neck to the head, also starting with to much oil in this spot can cause a lot of neck pain. So start small and work your way up as you will with all of these injections. Start with 1.5 cc per Trap. When site injecting whether its for growth or swelling (there is no real scientific evidence that site injecting causes actual growth of the muscle tissue, although I feel it does and my triceps have defiantly gotten bigger since I started site injecting.) you need to keep balance between the right muscle and the left muscle, so make sure the amounts injected is even to both sides. When looking in a mirror you want to inject mid way on your trap between your shoulder and your neck, and slightly to the back side of your body. When you inject, I go slow, I know a lot of people suggest going fast, it seems that most people tense too much when shooting so by going slowly you don't tense and there is less bruising to the area. After breaking the skin and slowly pushing the needle in all the way, you pull back on the plunger to aspirate, you don't need to pull all the way back till you have bubbles floating in the oil, you only need to have a slight vacuum. If there is a slight vacuum or a bubble you are ok, if you hit a vein blood will come into the syringe, it's not a big deal pull the needle out and move to another spot. If you hit a nerve it feels like a tingle and you will see the nerve make the muscle twitch, it's uncomfortable so just pull the needle out and again start in another spot. Don't mistake the twitch of a muscle because you aren't relaxing. You need to keep your muscles relaxed when you site inject especially if it is a new spot for you. Now slowly inject the oil into the trap, do a 1/4cc at a time then wait a few seconds and continue till it is all in. Now when pulling the needle out pull ¼ of it out wait a few seconds twist slightly and then pull another ¼ out wait a few seconds and continue till it is completely pulled out. By waiting a few seconds you give the oil a chance to fill the space of the needle and you should minimize the amount of oil or blood that will leak out of the injection site. This will be the same procedure for all muscle groups.

* Deltoids: *

25g x 1" or 23g x 1" Start with 1cc work up to 2.5cc. All three heads of the delts can be injected into, although you will need help for the rear delt, the side and front delt shouldn't be a problem. When injecting into the front delt you need to be careful of the main vein that runs up the center of the arm from the bicep. You should be able to feel around on the delt and when you hit the vein you should actually see it pulse under the skin, obviously you want to be either to the right or left of the vein. Again follow the same procedure as above and pierce the skin slowly and push the needle in slowly, you shouldn't hit any nerves but like I said the vein is possible so just take things slowly. For the side head there aren't any surface veins to worry about, but you can inject two different ways, straight into the side of the head and down from the top. If you inject down from the top it looks more natural as the oil will push the muscle up, in from the side makes the side head actually stand out. Follow the same procedure for injecting.

* Biceps:*

25g x 1", 25g x 5/8", 23g x 1" Start with 1 cc work up to 2cc. The two heads of the biceps can be used although it is easier to shoot into the inside head, the procedure is slightly different for the bicep. What you do is flex and mark the spot of the peak of the bicep, now straighten your arm and relax the muscle, where you marked it is where you inject just to the inside or the outside of the main vein. Although it looks like you are injecting to high on the muscle you aren't, you want to inject deep enough though to push the head of the muscle up not have the oil sit on the top of the muscle, which will look like a lump instead of a bigger muscle.

* Triceps:*

25g x 1", 25g x 5/8", 23g x 1" Start with 1 cc work up to 2 cc. Even though there are 3 heads of the triceps you will only be injecting into 2 of them, the inner and outer head, not the head nearest the elbow. For the outer head you can use the 5/8 inch needle, again you will want to flex the tricep and inject in the thickest part of the head, shooting when relaxed of course. For the back head you can inject in two different spots, the thick area where the arm touches the side of the lats or the upper most part of the tricep. For the back part you need to be careful of the nerves and veins that run through this area of the arm, again injecting slowly does help here. When going into the top part you will be on a slight angle and injecting actually behind the head, this will help give a more dramatic look as well as extra shape.

* Chest:*

23g x 1", 25g x 1" Start with 1cc work up to 3 cc. The chest can be a very scary area to inject into especially with all of the horror stories of Milos Sarcev almost dying from injecting Synthol into his chest. There are 3 main areas that can be injected into the chest, the upper pecs which are injected on an angle, the middle pecs which are injected straight into and the side of the chest. The upper and middle chest shots give more thickness to the pecs, while the side injection gives more width. For the upper chest shot the needle goes in on an angle, almost like you are saying the pledge of allegiance, for this shot I use the 25g x 1" needle, you need to go in deep enough to get the oil in the muscle but not so deep that you are near any veins. For the middle shot you can use either needle, it will go in the direct middle of the chest, straight in. These shots do take some practice and of course you still need to follow all outlined directions and of course stay relaxed.

credit to Pauluk27


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow Cap, you put together the most informative post on injection practice I ever saw.

wanna do a Sub-Q one now?

I think that post deserves some reputation to it.

Very nice mate.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

*Sub Q injections*


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

here is some well written and very useful Sub Q info

http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_education/pepubs/subq.pdf


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## Z3R0-CooL (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks for the post bro.

one question though. why do u recommend 1.5 inch for thighs? i was under the impression that u use 1inch for thighs and the only time u use 1.5inch is for glutes. at least thats what spotinjections suggests...


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Z3R0-CooL said:


> Thanks for the post bro.
> 
> one question though. why do u recommend 1.5 inch for thighs? i was under the impression that u use 1inch for thighs and the only time u use 1.5inch is for glutes. at least thats what spotinjections suggests...


Here is the answer Z3R0, courtesy of my big brother Hackskii 

Well, I guess you could use 1.5" or just dont go in all the way. 1" is cool too, not sure exactally if it is only limited to 1".

Just because spotinjections suggests this doesnt mean anything, after all who in the hell shoots the traps anyway?

I am sure Ronny Coleman can get away with much longer than 1.5 in the quads.....lol.... 

Scott


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

See cap i knew you was dodgy, posting pics of mens bums


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Bulldozer said:


> See cap i knew you was dodgy, posting pics of mens bums


   :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

Bulldozer said:


> See cap i knew you was dodgy, posting pics of mens bums


Damn! Theres proof to my allegations if you guys at UK-M had any doubts about my post in general!!!!!!


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## Stig (Oct 8, 2007)

Quality information there for a newbie

Is there a better time of day to take your shot, i.e first thing in the morning??


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Id let cap handle this one but here goes.

It doesnt matter.

That was a nice thread created by a newbe.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2007)

if you aspirate and blood enters the syringe im confused about what you do... do you remove syringe from body and change needle then try again, with the blood in the aas aswell which will also be injected into the glute?


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## takeone (May 23, 2007)

yep!


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## MarkL (Nov 22, 2007)

Where is the best place to jag sus?

what mean by this is, will i get the same results if i jag glutes than delts?

cheers


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

MarkL said:


> Where is the best place to jag sus?
> 
> what mean by this is, will i get the same results if i jag glutes than delts?
> 
> cheers


Glute, least amount of pain for me.


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## MarkL (Nov 22, 2007)

yea i have been doing glutes, and it is still quite sore sometimes with the propionate.

cheers anyway


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

MarkL said:


> yea i have been doing glutes, and it is still quite sore sometimes with the propionate.
> 
> cheers anyway


Glute would be your best bet. If I do leg shots my leg is pretty much worthless and I look spastic walking


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

dom1986 said:


> if you aspirate and blood enters the syringe im confused about what you do... do you remove syringe from body and change needle then try again, with the blood in the aas aswell which will also be injected into the glute?


Mate the blood came from your body it isn't going to hurt if it goes back in!

You are fine mate just find a new site, swab it and jab away!


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## Singleshot (Jan 17, 2008)

For you Glute guys...

http://www.nursing-standard.co.uk/ar...18n25p3942.pdf


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

hey lads jabbed up my delt as usual last night, never really have any complications what so ever. The jab went completely fine as usual, but woke up this morning and my arm is real sore not where i jabbed but like 4 - 5 inches below where the deltoid finishes i.e. bottom of deltoid and top od the brachialis. first time this has ever happened and cant figure out what it is. It aches if i try to raise my arm or apply pressure... any ideas???


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## Dojo (Jun 19, 2008)

^^ is it hot to the touch/inflammed?

hurt if you put pressure on it?


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

na, found out what it was, courtsey of PSCARB (always give sound advice!! cheers mate), its the oil travelling through the muscle, it'll just feel sore at bottom of your delt (about 4 - 5 inches below the point of injection) at the insertion point of the brachiallis, as if someones tried to give you a dead arm..


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## dagsgaz (Nov 14, 2007)

lol the pictures of the **** tuck me by suprise:|


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

itraininthedark said:


> na, found out what it was, courtsey of PSCARB (always give sound advice!! cheers mate), its the oil travelling through the muscle, it'll just feel sore at bottom of your delt (about 4 - 5 inches below the point of injection) at the insertion point of the brachiallis, as if someones tried to give you a dead arm..


like this?

http://www.spotinjections.com/index3.htm


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## Graham24 (Jul 28, 2008)

Lost Soul said:


> http://www.spotinjections.com/index3.htm


Really good info on this thread and a very useful website about injecting.

Useful for me as embarking on my first injectable cycle, so all information i gather is extremely useful.

Well done guys.


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## The Animal (Jul 15, 2008)

Great read.

Proved to my old man that aspiration is important. The old school notion of 'ah thats all bollox' just won't cut it anymore.

If you did hit a vein, how long would it take before you noticed/died?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont think you would die, unless there was air in it to cause and enblism(sp)


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Fantastic info! Nicely put together guys. :thumbup1:

Cheers.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

id doubt you die mate unless your jabbing with a spade!! wouldnt worry about it!!


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## BigJamie (Mar 20, 2008)

Hi all,

How do you go about using multiple use vials?

i've only used ampules before, so am wondering how they are stored and how you prevent contamination etc.

One of these will last me 5 weeks, would that be safe to use?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yes, I have had mult-use vials that I have had the top off for awhile.

I keep them in a cool dark place in a box.

If in doubt, then just swab the top of the vail with rubbing alcohol.


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## BBBoy (Sep 16, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I need to inject Sustenon once a week. When is the best time to inject. The morning on a training day at the beginning of my training week?

Or is anytime a good time?

Cheers

BBB


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Makes no diffrence.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I've recently joined UK-M and find it very interesting. This thread on injecting's full of good stuff but as a diver paramedic who's done many injections and watched many self-inject I'd like to add something more detailed about good practice to maximize sterility and avoid infection.

Rubber gloves are used to give an injector some protection against needle stick injuries when injecting others. They're not necessary when injecting yourself, providing you wash your hands well.

OK - so you're ready to inject. Do the various steps in this order:

1. Leave the syringe and needle in their unbroken sterile packs.

2. Swab the rubber seals of phials and the necks of ampoules with alcohol/antiseptic wipes and let them dry.

It's true that this won't kill all the bacteria, but you'll wipe a large percentage away. Don't pop ampoules yet.

3. Meanwhile, pop the mating needle and syringe ends through their packs and with one movement IMMEDIATELY push the pin firmly onto the barrel. Don't touch the fittings with your fingers. Discard the packs but keep the pin capped and don't move the piston.

Draw up from the largest multi-use phials first (unless it's the last remaining dose), to avoid "cross-contaminating" different meds unnecessarily.

4. With the pin still capped, pull the piston back by the amount you're going to draw up. Most of the air you draw up will be the sterile gas in the pin cap.

5. Uncap the pin and IMMEDIATELY push it through the seal without touching the metal or glass and push the piston home. Invert the phial to submerge the pin tip and draw out the desired dose.

6. Pull the pin smartly out of the seal and IMMEDIATELY recap it. NEVER let an uncapped pin touch anything. If so, replace it IMMEDIATELY.

Pop any ampoules just prior to use.

Draw up in the same way from smaller phials or ampoules any other gear you're going to mix in the barrel. Don't push any previous gear into the next phial if it has further doses in it.

7. CAP THE PIN IMMEDIATELY YOU'VE LOADED THE BARREL AND KEEP IT CAPPED UNTIL THE ACTUAL MOMENT YOU'RE GOING TO INJECT.

Now you've time to compose yourself for the actual jab. The pin and barrel will be quite safe for a few minutes.

8. Swab the injection site and let it dry before injecting.

If you've been most careful not to blunt the pin tip on its plastic cap or the metal or glass of phials or ampoules there's no need to change pins before injecting. Each time a pin is changed there's more chance of bacteria entering the syringe.

A 21 is fine for both drawing up and injecting and will cause virtually no trauma with good injection technique.

Several clean passes through rubber seals will NOT materially blunt a tempered steel sharp. It's quite possible to draw virtually all the liquid out of an ampoule without blunting the pin tip.

If you do change pins, cap and pull off the old once first and IMMEDIATELY pop the new one's pack and push it onto the barrel.

If you see blood while pulling back - aspirating - during injection, again for the same reasons it's not essential to change pins. But IMMEDIATELY expel just the blood from the pin without touching it on anything, IMMEDIATELY recap it and start over somewhere else. You'll maintain the full dose of gear this way too.

NO apologies for repeating the word IMMEDIATELY so often. Even though injection should be done slowly and methodically it's important to minimize pathways and opportunity for infection to contaminate the pin and barrel, so don't dither while loading up.


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## Nev7 (Nov 23, 2008)

Can anyone suggest where I can by jabs on line.

thx

Nev


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Nev7 said:


> Can anyone suggest where I can by jabs on line.
> 
> thx
> 
> Nev


You mean needles and syringes? Sometimes E-Bay, otherwise google it, there are plenty of places. You can get them for free from your local needle exchange also.

SD


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

BBBoy said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I need to inject Sustenon once a week. When is the best time to inject. The morning on a training day at the beginning of my training week?
> 
> ...


On an off day is a good choice


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Can i us a 1 inch pin 4 glute or is it too small? thnx in advance


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

1 inch will just do if you're not porky and go in completely.

1-1/4 is best. The pin tip should be 1 inch minimum into the muscle.


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

is 1 inch ok 4 quad then m8? bf is low the only reason i ask is because i only have 1 inch for a minit and need to continue course 2nite. thnx


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Also another quick question. What would happen if the pin didnt reach the muscle but was still injected with gear?


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

mart revive said:


> Also another quick question. What would happen if the pin didnt reach the muscle but was still injected with gear?


if it is not injected deep enough it will create a lump were it is sitting inbetween the muscle and skin but will stil slowlys soak into the muscle :thumb:


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

so its not dangerous as such then?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

mart revive said:


> is 1 inch ok 4 quad then m8? bf is low the only reason i ask is because i only have 1 inch for a minit and need to continue course 2nite. thnx





mart revive said:


> Also another quick question. What would happen if the pin didnt reach the muscle but was still injected with gear?


A 1-1/4 inch needle is best but a 1 inch will be fine for all sites including quads as long as you push the needle fully in.

Unless you've got a 1 inch fat layer you'll definitely be in the muscle!


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

crazypaver1 said:


> if it is not injected deep enough it will create a lump were it is sitting inbetween the muscle and skin but will stil slowlys soak into the muscle :thumb:


Maybe - but massage it to dissipate it anyway!


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanx 4 advice gents dont no wot i'd do wthout this site lol


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Maybe - but massage it to dissipate it anyway!


why maybe? wot other outcome is there?


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## bogman (Jun 25, 2007)

Captain Hero & Scott thanks for this thread. Just did my first injection after reading your post three times. I'm not a big fan of needles to say the least, so knowing I was doing it right reassured me!


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

mart revive said:


> why maybe? wot other outcome is there?


Well it would prob be absorbed more by the lymphatic system from under the skin rather than via the muscle, but it won't do any harm - just prolong the absorption time...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It wont do any harm, Sub-Q injections for gear are becomming quite popular and have been used with the boys in TRT for a good while now, as recommended by Dr. Shippen.

Due to less vascularity, the sub-Q will take longer to absorb.

I know guys right now that do sub-Q injections and say they get less sides..........That is what they say anyway.

1" will be enough, I do 1.5" due to me having a big ass.

I do 1" in delts, I have done legs but they bleed super bad and once they squirted, not pretty.

Biggest thing to worry about would be air in the syrenge and getting that into a vein, I think that is called an embolism(sp), you might not make it through that one, I think it like vapor locks the ol ticker up....

That is the whole reason behind aspiration.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

hackskii said:


> I...I know guys right now that do sub-Q injections and say they get less sides..........That is what they say anyway.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Diluted yet prolonged sides - because the absorption times are prolonged...

Any non-isotonic fluid be it excipient or air injected into a blood vessel is liable to cause an embolism.

But a little air injected into a muscle will do no harm...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Prodiver said:


> Any non-isotonic fluid be it excipient or air injected into a blood vessel is liable to cause an embolism.


What do you mean by this?

Right on the air, I know dudes that put some air in the back of the barrel so when they shoot the gear gets removed from the head of the needle.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

hackskii said:


> What do you mean by this?
> 
> Right on the air, I know dudes that put some air in the back of the barrel so when they shoot the gear gets removed from the head of the needle.


Isotonic - buffered - fluids like intravenous saline or glucose solution have the right pH and viscosity and cause no adverse changes in blood chemistry when introduced into the bloodstream.

There's little point in holding the needle up and expelling all air bubbles when you've loaded a syringe: when you aspirate during injection, all excess air will be drawn into the syringe and if you let it rise to the top will help ensure every bit of gear is injected, as you say...


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## Cap'n Beefy (Nov 16, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> A 1-1/4 inch needle is best but a 1 inch will be fine for all sites including quads as long as you push the needle fully in.
> 
> Unless you've got a 1 inch fat layer you'll definitely be in the muscle!


Oh, I thought you didn't agree with pushing a needle all the way in?

Turncoat!! :tongue:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Prodiver said:


> Isotonic - buffered - fluids like intravenous saline or glucose solution have the right pH and viscosity and cause no adverse changes in blood chemistry when introduced into the bloodstream.


I know the body protects the blood pH over most all pH.

Variations of blood pH can have grave conciquences.

Saliva and urine vary much.

Keeping the PH more alkine in the latter is nice for promoting good health.

I would love to hear your insight in the saline or glucose solutions that would change the pH up or down.

Most minerals buffer pH more alkaline.

Id like to know more about this if you have the time.



Prodiver said:


> There's little point in holding the needle up and expelling all air bubbles when you've loaded a syringe: when you aspirate during injection, all excess air will be drawn into the syringe and if you let it rise to the top will help ensure every bit of gear is injected, as you say...


Yah, I dont do this but I know others that do, they miser all the gear they can and make it most productive.

Even the excess in the head and needle is not acceptable....lol

Not me, I actually dont like the idea of air in the injection site, but I bet there will be some regardless.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

> Oh, I thought you didn't agree with pushing a needle all the way in?
> 
> Turncoat!! :tongue:


Thanks! :laugh:

I don't agree with pushing the pin all the way in - normally! That's why I repeatedly said a 1-1/4 inch needle is better.

But this guy only had 1 inchers and needed to avoid blow back...


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

hackskii said:


> I know the body protects the blood pH over most all pH.
> 
> Variations of blood pH can have grave conciquences.
> 
> ...


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saline_(medicine) and note Ringer's Solutions...

Blood and urine pH vary naturally. Keeping them more alkaline is advocated by some - but I've never been persuaded that anything but a healthy diet and active life are necessary. The body is astonishingly resilient!

The volume of gear even heavy users inject is highly unlikely to change your natural pH at all. Heavy lifting will produce lactic acidosis in the muscles, but this will be quickly cleared in a fit bod and anyway seems to play an important part in muscle hypertrophy...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Prodiver said:


> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saline_(medicine) and note Ringer's Solutions...
> 
> Blood and urine pH vary naturally. Keeping them more alkaline is advocated by some - but I've never been persuaded that anything but a healthy diet and active life are necessary. The body is astonishingly resilient!
> 
> The volume of gear even heavy users inject is highly unlikely to change your natural pH at all. Heavy lifting will produce lactic acidosis in the muscles, but this will be quickly cleared in a fit bod and anyway seems to play an important part in muscle hypertrophy...


The healthy diet in regards to pH probably has more to do with the minerals in the vegetables and fruits.

I do believe in the ol pH thing.

Out of curiosity are you suggesting that lactic acid is involved in the process of hypertrophy, or the level of GH secretion from anaerobic exercise, and the byproduct being lactic acid?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

hackskii said:


> ...Out of curiosity are you suggesting that lactic acid is involved in the process of hypertrophy, or the level of GH secretion from anaerobic exercise, and the byproduct being lactic acid?


It has been suggested that lactate produced by heavy exercise is one of the irritant triggers for the activation of the satellite cells that mediate hypertrophy. Dig down in Google and Wikipedia...


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

So if you wer 2 use a 1-1/4 inch on glute would you push all the way in ?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

mart revive said:


> So if you wer 2 use a 1-1/4 inch on glute would you push all the way in ?


No - unless you're a really podgy bloke 1 inch in will do...


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Okey dokey thanx 4 your words of wisdom


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Wheres the best part of quad to jab. been doing roughly where trouser pocket would b but gettin quite alot of discomfort 12 hrs l8er lasting for 2-3 days.


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

Would the best bet be to order 22 gauge 1 1/2 inch or 22 and a 1 inch. ?Will be using for glutes AND thighs.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

1" is fine if you are not really fat.

I use 1.5 on the glutes myself.

I dont do leg shots.


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

hackskii said:


> 1" is fine if you are not really fat.
> 
> I use 1.5 on the glutes myself.
> 
> I dont do leg shots.


 I'm about 15 percent B/F. If 1.5 inch works for you i'll try that then. Suppose it's not to larger difference anyhow. :thumbup1: Also is it 3ml syringe i'd need, i scanned back over but couldn't see it saying....


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

Link of the syringe/needle i think i need, can anyone clarify this before i buy. 

http://www.medisave.co.uk/needles-22-gauge-black-c-137_385_401.html

http://www.medisave.co.uk/syringes-ml-c-137_384_543.html


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm no expert, but looks OK to me.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

The needle length itself isn't critical - providing you get the tip a good 1 inch into the muscle to prevent blowback or getting gear under the skin.

You don't have to push a needle all the way home - see discussion on here about it being "bad practice" - just ensure you're 1 inch into a muscle: so unless you're very podgy a 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 needle will do anywhere.


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks, also does it matter if i ordered 22 gauge "black", i hear everyone talking of green etc, does it matter?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

YoungGun said:


> Thanks, also does it matter if i ordered 22 gauge "black", i hear everyone talking of green etc, does it matter?


21, 22 and 23 gauge needles are all fine for oil-based gear.

For some strange reason the custom has developed of drawing up with a 21 (larger) and injecting with a 23.

But a 21 is not significantly larger or more painful than a 23 if your technique is OK, and providing you don't blunt the needle it's best not to change it.

If gear's rather thick to draw up, just warm it under your armpit or in a cup of tea - antiseptic swab it clean and dry afterwards!:laugh:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

If gear gets "under the skin" rather than deep in the muscle it will be absorbed gradually and will do no harm - providing it does not make a blister just under the epidermis which could be vulnerable to breaking: then the gear would leak out and infection could get in.

So subcutaneous injection should be in the fat layer (however thin) just under the dermis. The easiest site for this is on the tum.

Subcutaneous gear will have a different - apparently slower - absorption time than intramuscular, and this might also vary depending how deep it ends up.


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## ABOBO (Jan 16, 2008)

where exactly can you inject the quads?

laymans term


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

ABOBO said:


> where exactly can you inject the quads?
> 
> laymans term


To save you searching, here's what I've written elsewhere before:

Sit or stand and tense your quad(s). You can then see and feel where the quad is fullest. From the centre of this area you have 2-3 inches north and south, and 1-2 inches east and west in which to inject.

When you're ready to inject sit on a dining chair and move your lower leg until the quad is full but relaxed. Push the needle into your chosen site deliberately with your pen hand - don't jab. Only the first mm or so will pr**k. Go in fairly upright, but a small angle won't matter - especially to avoid aiming for the bone. Go in 1 inch (leaving about 3 mm of a 1-1/4 needle out).

If you feel an electric nerve pain, pull out. press on the wound, and try again elsewhere. If you feel a dull ache, you may have touched a blood vessel - but don't worry - leave the needle e in for now.

Let go of the syringe and let the needle find its own angle - it'll do no harm. Change hands to hold the syringe firm, pull back firmly on the plunger for a few seconds. If you see a few bubbles don't worry. If there's no blood in the needle top, inject smoothly over about 5 seconds. Withdraw the needle smartly, press on the wound for a few seconds, then massage well for a minute or two.

If you get blood on pulling back, withdraw the needle, press on the wound, hold the syringe needle down, expel just the blood and try again elsewhere.

Take your time - it's really easy and safe this way and hardly hurts!


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## ANABOLIC-EDGE (Apr 28, 2008)

Reference to hiting the bone Prodriver on the thigh, how do you do this on an infant, or someone very thin?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

ANABOLIC-EDGE said:


> Reference to hiting the bone Prodriver on the thigh, how do you do this on an infant, or someone very thin?


Inject at an angle.

Providing the needle tip is in the muscle and not close under the skin, the needle tunnel is long enough (~ an inch ideally) and you inject slowly deposition will be successful.


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## Cap'n Beefy (Nov 16, 2008)

ANABOLIC-EDGE said:


> Reference to hiting the bone Prodriver on the thigh, how do you do this on an infant, or someone very thin?


You would tend to use the glute.

Avoiding scrapping the bone is paramount. It can make a noise that is, to say the least, off-putting!! Quite common when pinning the shoulder!!


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

> You would tend to use the glute...


Perhaps, but best choose the fattest muscle on their body. The quads of very thin people are often fatter than their glutes...


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## get me big (Mar 21, 2008)

where are the most recomended sites for a sub q jab sorry if it has been done to death i thought i saw some one say the tum but cant find that post now (typical) :thumb:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

get me big said:


> where are the most recomended sites for a sub q jab sorry if it has been done to death i thought i saw some one say the tum but cant find that post now (typical) :thumb:


Yes - subQ jabs such as heparin are typically done on the tum.


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## get me big (Mar 21, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Yes - subQ jabs such as heparin are typically done on the tum.


so hcg is that done there too??????? :confused1:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

get me big said:


> so hcg is that done there too??????? :confused1:


Yes - if subQ.

But I think you'll find some guys do HCG intramuscularly - ask Nytol and others what they advise...


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## get me big (Mar 21, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Yes - if subQ.
> 
> But I think you'll find some guys do HCG intramuscularly - ask Nytol and others what they advise...


cheers for the help:thumb:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Screw that sub-Q, there is less scar tissue and more way more site injection spots.

It works the same as well and is easier IMO.


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## Drift (Jan 27, 2009)

what colour is 1inch needle?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

zainasaurus said:


> what colour is 1inch needle?


Needle colours denote the gauges.

A 0.8 mm 21 is green; a 0.7 mm 22 is black; a 0.6 mm 23 is blue.

All three gauges come in various lengths.

A 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 inch 21 green is fine for drawing up and injecting anywhere.

You only need to push the needle in 1 inch even if it is longer.


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Needle colours denote the gauges.
> 
> A 0.8 mm 21 is green; a 0.7 mm 22 is black; a 0.6 mm 23 is blue.
> 
> ...


Dont think I have ever seen a black needle


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

eurgar said:


> Dont think I have ever seen a black needle


For some odd reason even gauges have rarely been favoured in practice...

21s and 23s are the most common for IM injection.


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## big sy (Feb 2, 2008)

I was reading on another thread about injecting test sub q and it seems like a lot of people are starting to favor sub q over IM, so i was thinking i might try this on my next cycle..

what needle should i use for this? 0.6(blue) or the fine orange ones?

ill be using 500mg of test which will be two ml, so would i do 4 half ml shots?

and am i right in thinking u go through the skin about 1/4 of an inch in?


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## big sy (Feb 2, 2008)

big sy said:


> I was reading on another thread about injecting test sub q and it seems like a lot of people are starting to favor sub q over IM, so i was thinking i might try this on my next cycle..
> 
> what needle should i use for this? 0.6(blue) or the fine orange ones?
> 
> ...


Anyone??


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

big sy said:


> Anyone??


Why would you want to do SubQ gear?

Absorption times are less predictable than IM.


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## big sy (Feb 2, 2008)

Tbh Im not sure, people seem two favor it more on other sites and i dont like the thought of getting an absess in my delt, iv never had a problem yet i use a green 1 1/2inch, i go in a bit more than an inch, not long ago my mate got an absess in his delt and now he's got a big scar!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Pro, on another board there seems to be a trend of guys doing sub-Q.

For the TRT dudes using 100mg a week, some do sub-Q to slow down absorption so they dont fall day 5 or so.

A TRT doctor in the states named Dr. Shippen has done this for a while.

I dont do it, but it could be done.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

I got some questions that i dont think as been answered:

Once the needle is in and your about to inject how long would you say it should take to actually get the liquid completely out and pull needle out? About 30 seconds?

Also once pushed in can you experience sharpe pinching? Pains? Or any problems? Or is it a numb feeling?


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

GSleigh said:


> I got some questions that i dont think as been answered:
> 
> Once the needle is in and your about to inject how long would you say it should take to actually get the liquid completely out and pull needle out? About 30 seconds?
> 
> ...


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Shall i assume that because your not injecting into empty space, BUT into a mass that the plunger shouldnt just push down really quickly and there should be resistance and take a while to filter in?

Also if you feel nothing and its that numb... Is that a generally thought from everyone? ANd would pains or twinges or any discomfort mean somethings gone wrong?


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

Para 1 - yes. I always get a little resistance at first, though it lessens as more fluid goes in.

Para 2 - it's not exactly numb, but I don't feel anything as long as the needle doesn't move in any direction (in/out, up/down). I would say that if you feel any pain with the pin in, you've got a bad spot.

Bump for Prodiver though.


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## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

Great read...........excellent post.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

dmcc said:


> Para 1 - yes. I always get a little resistance at first, though it lessens as more fluid goes in.
> 
> Para 2 - it's not exactly numb, but I don't feel anything as long as the needle doesn't move in any direction (in/out, up/down). I would say that if you feel any pain with the pin in, you've got a bad spot.
> 
> Bump for Prodiver though.


Ah fair enough then! That all makes sense.

I would assume that tensing or moving the leg while trying to do something like this would cause the muscle to move, contract and would cause discomfort as its trying to perform this movement with something stuck in it?

Probably common sense but just typing out loud!


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

Yes. Keep the muscle relaxed throughout. And no harm with thinking out loud, better to ask questions then do a bad shot and suffer.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

All much as dmcc says...

Keep the muscle relaxed and still all the time while injecting! Don't move around!

Once you've slid the needle in to the right depth, let go completely and let the needle find its own angle. Then change hands and hold it still.

If you don't hold the needle still and go in a bit deeper you could touch a nerve or blood vessel - hold the needle fitting still, bracing your hand against your quad.

Aspirate!

Sometimes as you inject the build-up of gear can press against a nerve or blood vessel and give a dull ache - but it's nothing to worry about and will subside if you pause for a moment or two and then continue to push the plunger slowly. There's never any need to rush - especially when injecting Tren Ace!

Once the gear's in you can remove the pin smartly. If you prefer to wait a few seconds like dmcc to reassure yourself there's no blowback it'll do no harm.

Massage the site well afterwards.


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## kev-09 (Apr 25, 2009)

very nice guide especially for a newb like me 

this info will help me a lot

thanks and great work!!


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## lanky matt (Jun 9, 2008)

Really informative info for a newbie such as me. I had my first shots yeaterday and was done by a friend but unfortunatly got to do it myself next week. so all this info is very helpful. can you just confirm sonething for me. Whilst thew 2 shots of oil based aas's were being done i felt no discomfort at all but last night and today in quite some pain and 1 cheek is a little bit bruised and a little hard.around the injection site. have been told this is fairly normal for a first timer and in time it will be less irratable after a couple of times. and this will go after a few deays. but after reading your thread you mentioned there are somethings you can do to lessen the after affests of oil based substances . would really appreciate any advice from anyone . many thanks all.


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

Quick Q for those who inject delts - do you split the shot over both shoulders (even small ones)? If you do, do you change needles between shots?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You should always change the needles, it dulls them even hitting the rubber on the top.

I myself only shoot 1ml into the delts using a 1" needle.

Any more than that and I use the glute.


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## vinnievinnie (Jul 13, 2009)

Thanks a lot

Don't want to make the same mistake twice


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## john87 (Jun 29, 2009)

cheeers for the info cap. iv only been injecting for 3 weeks and all your info iv done . except for 1 thing once or twice iv wiped the needle with the alcohol wipes . hav i gt anything to worry about? w/b cheers mate.


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## chucknorris666 (Jul 20, 2009)

is it ok to pull the plunger off the barrel and carfuly just pore the aas into the barrel then replace the plunger? i have done this a few times as i get way to much air into the barrel when drawing the oil out, but no air what so ever when pulling the plunger out and poreing the oil into the barrel?

let me know everyons opinion on doing it this way as if its dangerous il try not to do it again lol ...


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## chucknorris666 (Jul 20, 2009)

no one??


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I wouldnt do it that way, use a drawing needle, then swap needles.


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## cheef (Dec 1, 2009)

gonna shoot 2ml of sus later in my delt always done quads where about on my delt should i shood?


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

many thanks for this, just emailed the link to a friend whos jabbing for the first time. This will put him at ease after hes read it.


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