# Andreas Munzer's dice-with-death cycle



## AncientOldBloke

I lifted this from William Llewellyn's Anabolics book


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## noongains

Didnt think it looked bad until i saw daily

Hows the book?


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## AncientOldBloke

Book is great! Version 10 (the latest) costs £130.

Mine is 2006 - not that that matters for anyone not competing (eg me) who got it for a fiver.


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## arcticfox

HOW MUCH GEAR wow


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## ILLBehaviour

is that actually a cycle someone done for 10 weeks ?

guessing if the cycle didn't kill you, you would have a pretty bad valium habit after 10 weeks.


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## AncientOldBloke

It killed him. Literally.

Apparently, when they opened him up they found dry crumbly growths the size of table tennis balls in his liver


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## ILLBehaviour

> It killed him. Literally.
> 
> Apparently, when they opened him up they found dry crumbly growths the size of table tennis balls in his liver


so why the f**k did he do such a crazy cycle, what was the point.


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## AncientOldBloke

Who the f**k knows what goes on in the hallowed, rarefied minds of top athletes?

Means justify the ends? Fame? Fortune? Ego? Fear of failure? No family life? No other hobbies? A need to please the crowd? Any combo of the preceding?


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## superpube

Whats the purpose of adding valium into that ickle bickle cycle?


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## SK50

superpube said:


> Whats the purpose of adding valium into that ickle bickle cycle?


I can only imagine sleep would be impossible on that much gear without benzos

Daytime anxiety could be pretty brutal too


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## Irondan

Not many as ripped as him. Just skin and muscle.


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## Jamieson

A living anatomical diagram. I remember chatting to a guy who competed with him back in the day and he said it was common knowledge that his conditioning was literally killing him and at one show he came in at a tad under 3%BF, which had apparently been confirmed by some type of hydro analysis weighing device that takes in to account internal lipid levels as well as subcutaneous tissue. No wonder it finally did him in............


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## lewdylewd

Jamieson said:


> A living anatomical diagram. I remember chatting to a guy who competed with him back in the day and he said it was common knowledge that his conditioning was literally killing him and at one show he came in at a tad under 3%BF, which had apparently been confirmed by some type of hydro analysis weighing device that takes in to account internal lipid levels as well as subcutaneous tissue. No wonder it finally did him in............


If that 3% thing is true then yeah no wonder he kicked it I thought >5% (including internal fats) was lethal.

PS cool 2nd name bro I'm a Jamieson too.


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## Omar-Little

Read a fantastic book about him called Muscle a few years back. It claims that he was in agony for a few weeks before the Arnold show but kept on trying to get leaner as that waS the thing that made him stand out. One of the other competitors said it was like touching a corpse when you touched him.


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## BetterThanYou

24iu pharma HGH ED wtf?! :huh:


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## Sams

@barsnack think this should be your October cycle brah


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## AncientOldBloke

Wonder what that pr**k Zyzz was on?


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## Sams

AncientOldBloke said:


> Wonder what that pr**k Zyzz was on?


Just 500mg Test e per week and then he started DNP which was a factor in his death


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## AncientOldBloke

DNP would do it. Esp if he went into steam rooms in Thai whore houses.

I think his bod is/was varr'ed up and trennified.

Plus the sumbitch was young. What a waste.


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## Oldnewb

Wasn't it the extreme diuretic and related stuff that was attributed to his death rather than the steroids?

(Munzer that is)


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## AncientOldBloke

Oldnewb said:


> Wasn't it the extreme diuretic and related stuff that was attributed to his death rather than the steroids?


That's what the Weiderzines said. In fact, they didn't go into too much details about cause of death beyond too many diuretics.

Momo Benaziza's cause of death was apparently also diuretics.

https://www.t-nation.com/steroids/big-dead-bodybuilders

Basically, I enjoy owning a fast car, but I never want to compete in it on a racetrack. Too many variables to go wrong.


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## Test-e

if you travel round Greece, Italy there are statues of him everywhere.


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## superpube

He looks ill


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## Irondan

Paul Dillet nearly died on stage from diuretics. This is him getting carried off.


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## Jason Gray

how the hell did he do that much GH without a pain-killer as strong as oxy-codone...the sides must've been ridiculous...


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## freddee

Someone on here posted their cycle a few years back, all oral, some kid posted how great a cycle it was and he did not care what people said he had read reports and knew it all, in all I would estimate there was 300+ mg's per day of dianabol, winstrol, oxymeth, and the funny thing was a lower dose of var, personally if you mess with that many orals for any length of time you are going to be in big trouble in time.

I'm sure some people don't understand the difference between a 17c oral and an injectable.


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## Gary29

Irondan said:


> Paul Dillet nearly died on stage from diuretics. This is him getting carried off.


Where's the bloke in the middle 'holding' him?!


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## 195645855

Gary29 said:


> Where's the bloke in the middle 'holding' him?!


Well you can clearly see the blonde guy has his upper body with each of the others holding one of his legs.


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## Dark sim

Irondan said:


> Paul Dillet nearly died on stage from diuretics. This is him getting carried off.


Sad sight


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## Jamieson

Dark sim said:


> Sad sight


Very true. It reminds me of what I heard Lee Priest once say at a seminar when some young guy asked if he should use slin in his contest prep for some local amateur show he was doing and Lee replied along the lines of 'You're a fcuking idiot, risking your life for a £30 plastic trophy', got me thinking if a newbie is looking at slin what lengths will guys who make their living at this go to?


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## Dark sim

Jamieson said:


> Very true. It reminds me of what I heard Lee Priest once say at a seminar when some young guy asked if he should use slin in his contest prep for some local amateur show he was doing and Lee replied along the lines of 'You're a fcuking idiot, risking your life for a £30 plastic trophy', got me thinking if a newbie is looking at slin what lengths will guys who make their living at this go to?


If you look at the sport as a whole, it is crazy, as only a very small % will go on and do something within the industry, yet the amounts being used by some are crazy.


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## Fluke82

Dark sim said:


> If you look at the sport as a whole, it is crazy, as only a very small % will go on and do something within the industry, yet the amounts being used by some are crazy.


Will you ever use slin, to progress.


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## Gary29

Jamieson said:


> Very true. It reminds me of what I heard Lee Priest once say at a seminar when some young guy asked if he should use slin in his contest prep for some local amateur show he was doing and Lee replied along the lines of 'You're a fcuking idiot, risking your life for a £30 plastic trophy', got me thinking if a newbie is looking at slin what lengths will guys who make their living at this go to?





Dark sim said:


> If you look at the sport as a whole, it is crazy, as only a very small % will go on and do something within the industry, yet the amounts being used by some are crazy.


Wasn't this @banzi 's point the other day in the 'bodybuilder' thread?

I'm by no means in stage shape and probably never will be, but the lengths that people are willing to go to win even amateur contests is strange to me. I don't know whether their dedication should be admired or pitied in some way as many are literally risking their lives to win plastic trophies.


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## Dark sim

Drogon said:


> Will you ever use slin, to progress.


I have. It is not dangerous imo, it is misunderstood by many. The doses people go wrong with are not doses I'm anywhere near or advocate using.

I inject 10iu post training, then I have my quick carbs. I sometimes use 2-3iu before a carb meal. When I use it, I cycle 4 weeks on 4-6 off.

EDIT: Can't say I rate it so far, but maybe because I have not gone high enough. That's the problem!!

In my opinion fat burners and diuretics are more dangerous.


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## Fluke82

Dark sim said:


> I have. It is not dangerous imo, it is misunderstood by many. The doses people go wrong with are not doses I'm anywhere near or advocate using.
> 
> I inject 10iu post training, then I have my quick carbs. I sometimes use 2-3iu before a carb meal. When I use it, I cycle 4 weeks on 4-6 off.
> 
> EDIT: Can't say I rate it so far, but maybe because I have not gone high enough. That's the problem!!
> 
> In my opinion* fat burners *and diuretics are more dangerous.


As in t3/t4/eca/clen/DNP are the ones of the top of my head?


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## Dark sim

Gary29 said:


> Wasn't this @banzi 's point the other day in the 'bodybuilder' thread?
> 
> I'm by no means in stage shape and probably never will be, but the lengths that people are willing to go to win even amateur contests is strange to me. I don't know whether their dedication should be admired or pitied in some way as many are literally risking their lives to win plastic trophies.


It was. I think risking your life is an exaggeration and slightly dramatic.



Drogon said:


> As in t3/t4/eca/clen/DNP are the ones of the top of my head?


Yes


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## SK50

MissMartinez said:


> Was this in that book Confessions of an unlikely bodybuilder? Thought it said in that, often bbers logged excessive cycles in case they got caught with a large stash as many were also dealers... Logging crazy cycles might get them of a charge of supply if they can get away with 'personal usage'


I read this on another forum and it sounds like a reasonable explanation for the cycle note that was found.

Guess we can only speculate and never know for sure...


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## Dead lee

The cycle doesnt add up IMO 24 iu of pharma GH ED would render your hands numb, i dont believe many if any use that sort of dosage of pharma GH in the real world.

Also IGF -1 was it even available then, clen for 10 weeks, some things dont add up.


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## Lawrence 82

Dead lee said:


> The cycle doesnt add up IMO 24 iu of pharma GH ED would render your hands numb, i dont believe many if any use that sort of dosage of pharma GH in the real world.
> 
> Also IGF -1 was it even available then, clen for 10 weeks, some things dont add up.


i cant hold a tea mug without loosing grip and throwing on myself.. n that on 5iu generic hyge blacktop lol , does seem a ridiculous amount.


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## Sustanation

AncientOldBloke said:


> Book is great! Version 10 (the latest) costs £130.
> 
> Mine is 2006 - not that that matters for anyone not competing (eg me) who got it for a fiver.


the latest goes for around £50 band new who evers selling it for £130 is a right flapjack,


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## AncientOldBloke

You mean whoevers buying it for £130 is a right flapjack


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## Blackzillian

Dark sim said:


> Sad sight


John Romano admitted he was partly to blame. He advised Dillett to take a full tab of lasix or something without knowing he was already on diuretics.Dillett assumed Romano knew he was already on so he went ahead and took the tablet.


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## Jamieson

Just as a bit of a side bar, but if he was using that amount of HGH & Slin, how comes no distended stomach?

And if it's not slin & HGH that's responsible for the whole turtle shell stomach look, what the heck has been causing it and why do guys persist with it, if it's clearly avoidable?


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## Dark sim

Jamieson said:


> Just as a bit of a side bar, but if he was using that amount of HGH & Slin, how comes no distended stomach?
> 
> And if it's not slin & HGH that's responsible for the whole turtle shell stomach look, what the heck has been causing it and why do guys persist with it, if it's clearly avoidable?


Volume of food, carb up issues. I think age is a factor. And the fact everyone is different.


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## JayPardoe.com

All I got was whiplash trying to read that s**t.


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## MRSTRONG

i know of some top strongmen that have used upto 100iu hgh during WSM days to rest and recover but not for long periods , you can build a tolerance to the sides and everyone is different


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## Blackzillian

MRSTRONG said:


> i know of some top strongmen that have used upto 100iu hgh during WSM days to rest and recover but not for long periods , you can build a tolerance to the sides and everyone is different


Piana in one of his videos said he used 20ius a day at one point. Not sure whether he was exaggerating or not.


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## Jamieson

Dark sim said:


> Volume of food, carb up issues. I think age is a factor. And the fact everyone is different.


Argh, I se. Thanks buddy, makes sense.


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## d0nny2600

Body was literally a pin cushion. Nothing is worth that


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## AgoSte

Do you think I can kick start my cycle of long esters with his dosages? Or should I add something?


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## Blackzillian

AgoSte said:


> Do you think I can kick start my cycle of long esters with his dosages? Or should I
> 
> Why?


Why


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## SickCurrent

Wut no bain? no phet? Lightweight baby.....


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## Jason Gray

AncientOldBloke said:


> Wonder what that pr**k Zyzz was on?


My guess re what the pr**k was on would be DNP, AAS, meth, Kamagra and a Thai prostitute.


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## Jason Gray

SK50 said:


> I can only imagine sleep would be impossible on that much gear without benzos
> 
> Daytime anxiety could be pretty brutal too


I actually think the cycles wrong. He'd need some serious pain med's in there to handle that much HGH, etc, nubain, lidocaine, oxycodone, etc. Found the below interesting:


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## Blackzillian

Jason Gray said:


> My guess re what the pr**k was on would be DNP, AAS, meth, Kamagra and a Thai prostitute.


Google DNP and one of the articles on it claims it was the culprit.


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