# Bulking diet and program opinions



## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi guys/girls

Could I have your thoughts and opinions on my diet and training program, am 5ft6 75kg and about 18%bf am trying to lean bulk to around 85kg then cut up to 10%bf and try and keep the muscle.

So at 165lbs I think I need to eat around 2640cals for lean bulk and 2970 for mass gain does that sound about right ? cus I have been eating closer to 2900cal for 3 weeks now and have not seen the scales increasing. would of expected 0.5lb - 1lb gain a week

Diet and training listed below:

9am Extreme Whey Protein

930-10am 100g Quaker Oats with 300-400ml rice milk or soya milk ( I do semi skimmed every other day).

12-12.30pm 200g Balsmalti white rice + 120g Turkey or chicken, ham or tin of tuna in brine + 150g of veg brocolli, cabbage, green beans

2.30-3pm 200g Balsmalti white rice + 120g Turkey or chicken, ham or tin of tuna in brine + 150g of veg brocolli, cabbage, green beans

5pm Pre workout Extreme Whey (Was thinking of changing this to B&R what you think?) + Banana + 6 BCAA Reflex tablets

6-630pm Post workout Extreme B&R + 6 BCAA Reflex tablets

730pm 100-200g meat or fish + 100-150g veg + 250g rice or 200g pasta or sweet potatoes ( Normal white potatoes ok here) ?

11pm Extreme Pro-6 with water or should I take this with semi skimmed milk as well?

Triple Omega 3-6-9 1200mg + Radiance Multi vitamin & Minerals one a day tablet. Which I normally take with breakfast or lunch.

To much vits & mins?

Monday:

Bench Press 1 warm up set 3 working sets reps 10-15 then 3-8 reps

Incline Press/DB 3-4 sets 3-8 reps

Decline DB 3 sets 3-8 reps

Triceps lying EZ bar ext 1 warm up set 3 working sets 10-15 then 3-8 reps

Close grip bench press 3 sets 3-8 reps

Weighted Dips 2 sets

Tuesday:

Squats/Leg press 2 warm up sets 3 working sets 5 reps

Quad ext 3 sets 5-8 reps

Ham curls 3 sets 5-8 reps

Calf raises 4 sets 5-8 reps

Wednesday: REST

Thursday:

Lat pulldowns/Weighted pull ups 1 warm up set 3-4 sets 5-8 reps

Single Arm rows 3 sets 5-8 reps

Narrow grip pull downs 3 sets 5-8 reps

Dead lifts 1 warm up set 3 working 1-8 reps but every other week

Biceps EZ bar curls 1 warm up set 3 working 5-8 reps

DB curl/ concentration curl 2 sets 5-8 reps

Friday:

Shoulder Mil press or DB press 1 warm up set 3 working 5-8 reps

Side lateral raises 3 sets 5-10 reps

Rear delt rasie 3 sets 8-10 reps

Upright rows 3 sets 5-8 reps

Barbell shrugs 3 sets 3-8 reps

Sat + Sun: REST

Also do you consume the same amount of calories on non-training days as well ?

Is there any truth, when they say your body can only consume a certain amount of Carbs at any one time as the rest will be stored as fat ?

Thanks all


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

hey bud, i personally dont think youre metabolism is an exact equation.

stress can affect the bodies metabolism in many ways..

so increase cals slightly more.

imo i`d just cut now mate.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

training more days than you rest will also affect youre metabolism ie imo make it more likely to be catabolic than anabolic.


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Want to get bigger first Cal as will lose quiet a bit of size on the cut I think.

Keep adding cals until scales start to move then ?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

being simplistic yes.

ive tried lean bulking my way out of a situation and altho im not everyone it didnt work bud.

you`d need anabolics to even stand a chance imo..

i spent 10 months losing 10lbs at a rate of 1lb a month and lost very little muscle imo..

and i look sooo much better.


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

So you kept your muscle due to keeping protein intake high ? 1lb a month that's slow but I guess if you kept the muscle its worth it


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i keep my protein very hi tbh

about 2g per pound of bw


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

what you think on the red parts in my first post ?

And

Also do you consume the same amount of calories on non-training days as well ?

Is there any truth, when they say your body can only consume a certain amount of Carbs at any one time as the rest will be stored as fat ?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

if you use milk at nite the protein powder is absorbed slower.

milk contains casein which is a slow release protein.

take a multi vit if you want.

theoretically a recovery type protein drink will be beneficial.

they do nothing for me.

i dont think much of your routine at all.

presumably your natural and expect to gain muscle on that.

you train more days than you rest for a start dude.

its a typical routine that doesnt work for many people and hence youre thinking B&R is gonna correct that?

i will suggest one thing that i cant resist to correct :becky:

weighted dips, last after youve already worked triceps on 5 exercises containing 15-16 sets

if thats possible, and im saying this with the greatest respect, do you think you actually trained very hard on those preceding 15 sets?

i do 12 sets tops for chest shoulders and tri`s.

if i thought doing more sets would be beneficial i`d do em..


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

TheCrazyCal said:


> if you use milk at nite the protein powder is absorbed slower.
> 
> milk contains casein which is a slow release protein. So no need if Extreme pro-6 is based along those lines , ok if I want to up calories or do you think it will effect the way the drink works ?
> 
> ...


Above in red and I hear what you are saying regarding the rest, I went back over to this routine from a 5x5 as towards the end of the 12 week program on 5x5 I was finding I was starting to feel like my body was feeling the constat heavy weights, if that makes sense


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

fleg said:


> You're under eating big time to train that much. I'm on 4500cals 350g pro and low carb at 350g and leaning up while putting weight on the bar. Overtraining (as many will put this) will be particularly pointless if you're under eating. You will have heard many pros say 'there is no such thing as over training, its just that you are under eating'. You're metabolism will slow down big time as Cal has said. Obv what pros say might not apply to the masses! But it's something I think speaks a lot of truth..
> 
> You're actually getting far more carbs than me do you have an idea how many g's? Calories should not be primary focus. Am hitting around these figures 400g carbs - 250g pro - 90g fats
> 
> ...


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Just to add I recently added more carbs after reading Andy's section about carbs and natural BB


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

try and go into the gym with same energy each time.

if i could get extra reps on occasion and didnt get them i would be seriously concerned.

imo you should know what youre gonna hit with poundages and reps before you step foot in gym :wink:


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Think we getting wires crossed here. I know my weights I can do 5 reps with, but some days people have more energy and I can push out 2-3 more reps so up starting weight the following session. :wink:


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i dont think we are getting our wires crossed dude..

why do you have more energy somedays?

work out why and fix it.

hint, train less and you`ll consistently have more energy 

i`d be questioning heavily if i got an extra rep when i didnt expect it, and why i wasnt getting it every week..


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

probably due to how much work I have done during the day


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

then wait a day and then train, you`ll have more energy cos you`ll have recovered more.

my man fleg is one of the few people i know who can train with hi frequency and grow, he`s 6"6 and somewhere near 20 stone and not fat..

dont presume youre a genetic freak.

imo training 4x a week is contributing to your tiredness.

essentially for most people thats too often.

you wouldnt expect to grow if you partyed everynite, a hard job and 4x aweek is just as detrimental..

n btw i`d be prexhausting my deadlifts with a leg exercise not a back one. :wink:

actually i`d do deads first but thats something else.


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

been looking at your basic spilt routine Cal,can that be adapted to 3 times a week instead of 2 ? I guess just alternate so do mondays session then repeat again on friday then repeat tuesdays session on monday ?

Think I see it under beginner thread when browsing, guessing still ok if you arent a beginner as you say "don't over think keep it basic":wink:


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

that depends on what you define as a beginner and whether 4x is better than 3x aweek training and whether 3x a week is actually better than 2x..

so far youve guessed high and imo got it wrong..

i`d suggest trying to figure out when your genuinely ready to train again as the determining factor.

i am currently stiff leg deading 135kg if i plateau i`ll drop back to 120kg.

i need more rest the harder i`m training.


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Can't I ever get a straight forward answer ?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

your training is currently crap, imeho train 2x a week.

oh yeah you place to much importance on supplements too 

i`m tryng to get you to ask yourself questions.

i try to teach people rather than tell them what to do.


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Lmao yeah I can see ur point

Bloody struggle to eat what I eat now

Twice a week won't keep me out the house though


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

then do some cardio instead of training.


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## MichelleD (Dec 9, 2011)

I think the best advice anyone can give you is to stick to what Cal has advised without trying to change any of it, and you'll get the results you're after. There are plenty of people who can vouch for that :becky: Good luck :thumb


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Then u aren't resting the body no ? Or very low impact exercises ?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

youve answered your own q


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## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Dazza said:


> Hi guys/girls
> 
> Could I have your thoughts and opinions on my diet and training program, am 5ft6 75kg and about 18%bf am trying to lean bulk to around 85kg then cut up to 10%bf and try and keep the muscle.
> 
> ...


Dazza patient's is a virtue in this game, this is now the 3rd time you've posted a diet, after I made a few tweaks. Prior to that you where never eating as much as this or as clean. I told you to stick with it for a couple of months and see how you get on. What's the point in posting something around 2 weeks later, just to get different answers after you specifically asked for my advice?

Patient's is a virtue in this game and constancy is vital. Your diet looks fine, training looks fine and your rest looks fine, so how about instead of looking for flaws in your approach actually stick with something for any length of time and then evaluate your progress after 12- 16 weeks. It took me around 2 to 3 years to get up to 85kg from 75kg, Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Andy I wouldn't of asked in another section if I had a response from you after the intial response ? and I did leave it a while before doing another thread. I would rather take advice from someone at your level or others that have simular credentials. And the only person responding on this thread is Cal, I thought this forum was full of top quality BB.

Cal why would you like this comment if through the whole thread you have been saying junk the 4 day spilt and rest more ? bit of a hypocrite !


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Not at all Fleg but how can I make an informed decision if one person is saying one thing and another saying something else.

I have increased foods since being told by Andy and I did reply to your questions, you may have missed them ?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

> so how about instead of looking for flaws in your approach actually stick with something for any length of time and then evaluate your progress after 12- 16 weeks.


think i`ll let you get on with it dude..

jog on..


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

lol very mature


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

Bud patience is a virtue most guys on here will ever thing to help u i take it ur a young guy to patience


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

Not at all am 34, but if you read the whole thread you will see my point am sure. Am not digging anyone out and appreciate the advice but when 2 people completely contradict each other how is someone ment to make there own mind up !

Andy had been very helpful but I had no response in a while so I thought if he was busy, then why not use this forum for more information ???? Surely thats what forums are for ???


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

i know what ur saying I am still trying to get my head round it I just readed and listen and try and work out what best for me I cant tell u what to do Cal a trainer so try out what he said and see if it works for u HOPE U GET THERE BUD


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

MEEKY said:


> i know what ur saying I am still trying to get my head round it I just readed and listen and try and work out what best for me I cant tell u what to do Cal a trainer so try out what he said and see if it works for u HOPE U GET THERE BUD


Thanks thought I was missing something somewhere


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## Dazza1466868025 (Jan 11, 2012)

fleg said:


> As andy said though its been like 2 weeks and you're asking for further critique on a diet he has already looked at reviewed and re worked.
> 
> If you want to stick with this routine, which all be it is not too bad, there needs to be a couple of changes. But really I think you're answering you're own questions when you're saying how exhausted you are...
> 
> ...


Only started this thread Fleg as aditional questions weren't answered, no offence was ment to be taken from this.

I started training when I was 17 and got to 12.5st and was pretty happy at the time, then beer,girls,cars took me attention and gym wasn't my main hobby. slippery slop till 28ish and then had 3-4 years completely off.

Just got back into the gym with my bro in the last 1.5 year really and at the start I was cutting due to a throat thingy and cut out nearly all carbs. Got down to 66kg and decided to give the gym a real blast again (mid life crisis lol  ).

So hence the questions and advice on diets and training programs as I don't want to waste time and want to try and get to the best I can.

I've always done split routines early days, until now when I have run the 5x5 program for 12 weeks made good gains but started to get bored with doing same routine so I started the split again 4 weeks so far. Am hitting 8 reps all the time unless I try to bet a PB then I may get 1 or 3 reps, then I increase weights

Hope that clears things up a bit


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