# Chest and bis vs back and bis



## mark1436114490 (Apr 20, 2003)

I've recently re-jigged my workout to give my chest a little more attention by training it on its own day instead of with biceps. I have moved my bicep work to my back day.

I have found that after my back workout my biceps are already pretty tired and I'm curling alot less weight before the are totally fcuked. When I was doing bis after chest they felt fresh and I could shift much more weight for more excercises before they were dead.

Is the aim to kill them by whatever means or is the heavy weight more productive?


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

TBH mate I find it hard to accomodate my biceps.

I find that on back day I do more pulling movements (deadlift, rows etc) which really takes it out of my bis. I do them now on leg day but I still find it hard especially now I'm doing stiff-leg deadlifts.

I think you should move it to another day or stick with what you already have, unless you have loads of time on your hands I wouldn't bother trying to hammer one bodypart on its own day too much.

Best of luck, Jock


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

i typed a huge ass long winded reply to this explaining why you shouod either ignore your biceps and cycle thier training on-off every other month, or gruop them on back day as they also fall into the upper bodies pulling kinetic chain.

then my computer froze and i had to re-start, losing the whole bloody lot.

imo: do them on back day, and cycle thier trianing on and off every month.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

same here. if your caning them doing your back day, then wait a couple of days til its your chest then cane them with isolation moves it limits recovery time.

IMO do them on back day also.

my BBing split was

mon push

weds pull

fri legs

allowing a weeks recovery til hitting it all over again.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

sound advice above


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

big pete said:


> my BBing split was
> 
> mon push
> 
> ...


Why not do legs on wednesday and do pull on friday? It give the upper body more space to recoup?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2004)

> Why not do legs on wednesday and do pull on friday? It give the upper body more space to recoup?


you could, but there is no need. so you can do it any way you wnat. the pull muscles are only antagonists at best for the push day, and vis versa, so it should afect perfromace too much.

persoanly, i do:

legs

upperbody

legs

or

legs

upperbody

legs

upperbody

and i don't split the upper body into push and pull myself. i do it all in one go.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

ive started adding another day which is traps, rear delts and bis


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2004)

why?


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

what dya mean why? im working off a six day split at the moment and that just happens to be one of my days. Theres nothing wrong with mixing things up a bit and changing your routine!


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2004)

what i meant by why was exactly that. why do you need to hit your biceps and traps on a separte day? (or your rear delts.)

i can see the reason for the isolation of these muscles, but why can't you shove them in on your back day? delts need 1-2sets of 6-8 reps of isolation, thats it. same for biceps and same for traps. that would take you 10mins at most.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

you seriously only do 2 sets for your shoulders?

Its the just the way the routine is written, you end up hitting each muscle twice a week, once primarily and once secondarily. Its a very different approach to the norm, which i have allready followed for a while. I just needed a change as i was getting bored and tbh im enjoying it and it is keeping me motivated (well, most of the time anyway)

Main delt workout primarily hits the anterior and lateral head then on to triceps.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2004)

actually i do 8-10 sets for shoudlers.

3x5 military press, 3x5 bb rows, 3x5 benching + 1-2 sest of rear delt raises every other week.

thats it. my shoudlers are massive, like my legs and forarms, they are prolly my best bodypart.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> you could, but there is no need. so you can do it any way you wnat. the pull muscles are only antagonists at best for the push day, and vis versa, so it should afect perfromace too much.
> 
> persoanly, i do:
> 
> ...


This dosn't count for you and I dont think anybody should do them behind but. Have you ever done pulldowns behind the neck (I dont recomend bad on the rotator) and had your outer chest sore? I also throw in rear delt on back day. Like I said I would do legs in between thats just me though.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2004)

> This dosn't count for you and I dont think anybody should do them behind but


what do you mean, "this doesn't count for you"

why doesn't my post count?


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

one thing still bothers me about how we all train.

When you exercise, you testorone levels are increased dramatically. Now why dont we train more frequently, hitting each muscle at a much less intensity.

I have read recovery for muscles take 24 hours, people mistankingly accuse overtraining for "pain". And so when a 3 day split is performed, time is wasted because the muscle has already recovered and then the fibres have to wait another 1-2 days in which time catabolics issues actually start to kick in.

Think about it?

A builder is working 5 days a week, he is lifting heavy machinery, concrete. All independant free weights using the back,legs, bi's and so on in lifting. Using the whole body in other words so exhaustion and overtraining for one particular muscle group is minimised. Because one body part is not totally exhausted, he IS then able to go back and do the same again, without the risk of "overtraining". The whole body is growing and getting stronger after every working day. All builders have great masculine dense figures, and they dont even try for It or eat specifically to accomodate for it. The body can only grow from certain amounts of stimilus applied, hitting it as hard as you possibly can after one workout is putting too much stress on that area and so only 5% let's say of that effort is actually converted, why not apply stimilus to every bodypart and use that percentage to grow from every bodypart?

This is proven by every builder with great dense chests and legs, and rememvber they dont even try for it.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Hi there Mark

Dunno if this helps you But this is similar to what I do not gonna go into it in too much detail there is a bit too much of that going on in here lately back to basics.

Monday Chest and tricep

Wednesday Shoulders and back

Friday Arms and legs

If you want a more intence workout on your chest try supersets, What I do is keep the reps to 8 to 12 rep per set.

I think Big pete and winger are right and its all down to personal taste ie what workes with you.

Anyway keep us posted dude


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Hardrive said:


> Hi there Mark
> 
> Dunno if this helps you But this is similar to what I do not gonna go into it in too much detail there is a bit too much of that going on in here lately back to basics.
> 
> ...


im not complicating things, just a simple observation

But he is right, what works for you iS what needs to be done, just experiment for a little while.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Sorry Killerkeane you must of posted that post at 6:58 as I was typing my post I agree with ya. Just trying to keep things simple hope I didnt offend ya didnt mean to


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

lol, looking back at my post it looked a little "sarcastic", sorry it wasnt. It didn't offend me at all, what you say is 100% right.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> what do you mean, "this doesn't count for you"
> 
> why doesn't my post count?


Because you dont do pulldowns.............have another , notice the happy face... 

James just because you put a mad face dosn't mean you are mad.........ha ha ha.

Take some tamoxifen


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James my man, I have read every one of your posts!


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> what i meant by why was exactly that. why do you need to hit your biceps and traps on a separte day? (or your rear delts.)
> 
> i can see the reason for the isolation of these muscles, but why can't you shove them in on your back day? delts need 1-2sets of 6-8 reps of isolation, thats it. same for biceps and same for traps. that would take you 10mins at most.


I have to agree I would at least have traps in back day.

What is your full 6 day split?


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

day 1 quads and hams

day 2 shoulders and triceps

day 3 back 1 (traps, rohmboids, rear delts and biceps)

day 4 abs, hams and calves

day 5 chest shoulders and tris (primarily chest)

day 6 back 2 (Lats only) and calves

Is the same routine that a guy who is entering the universe is on at the mo at my gym.

I know that doesnt mean its neccesarily right for me, but i fancied a change and am enjoying it. The sets and reps are very different from what ive used before so its taking its toll and im responding well.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

winger said:


> Because you dont do pulldowns.............have another , notice the happy face...
> 
> James just because you put a mad face dosn't mean you are mad.........ha ha ha.
> 
> ...


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

I dunno about the rest of the boys but ive nearly come round to your way of thinking, now im not in shape but im trying hard to get there and as ive said before right after my next course, i,ll lose some body fat then im posting pics for the boys to do thier worst, im wondering if you could do me a favour? Can you post a couple of pics of yourself big legs and melon delts just to convince me your theory works?CHEERS PAL


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

no. i don't have acess to a digi cam right now. thats why. the only pics i have are of me @ 160lbs. thats small. i am 190lbs now. as soon as my gf coes back off her holidays i will get some pics done. howszat?


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/robmoatesv2/album?.dir=/bee6&urlhint=actn,del%3as,1%3af,0

i have removed the one of my front and face. remeber, i am 30lbs of muscle lighter there.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

you have 12hrs to view themm before i make the album private again.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

but get the new ones done its kind of hard to believe , lets see the evidence buddy


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

john33 said:


> He knows I was kidding. We pm each other.........he he he.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/robmoatesv2/album?.dir=/bee6&urlhint=actn,del%3as,1%3af,0
> 
> i have removed the one of my front and face. remeber, i am 30lbs of muscle lighter there.


Looking good mate. I still dont know how you bent the nails?


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

john, whats kind of hard to beleive? that i am now nearly 190lbs? if you come at me with another callout statement like that i wont post them. don'tyou dare accuse me of lying. i don't ask you to pot pictures to prove your training theory works, do i?

don't think i am doing this to prove myself. its to satisfy your curiosity only. i have no desire to call people out, or to see other semi naked men. thats your request. remember that.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

winger, it took me nearly a year to bend a 6" shiny bright steel nail.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

i can tear a phone book (yellow pages) spine first too


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

So much for 12 hours...........Rob.........lol:cool:


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

john33 asked to see them for whatever strange reason. you didn't. he has obviously seen them (see his post) so i have taken them down. they are not any of anyone elses business, are they? (answer=no).

i take it thats you, in your avatar?

if i wanted to be called Rob, i would have joined as Rob. i don't, so don't use it.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

I did ask for them before ie your stats and so on... no recent ones Robert some intresting posts on muscletalk makes a good read

Yes thats me in the avitar AND

On a diffrent matter though chill out a bit. (hardrive, 22/08/2004)


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

baiting again eh. you never know, somone might rise to it one day.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

god youd think with so many people saying this to you you might, a little at least!

And lets not have any silly threats, were supposed to be adults, just a couple more things:

why would you want to bend nails? and what do you do now for numbers call 118 118?

and to qoute what you keep telling hard drive chill out a bit mate!

PANTHRO HAVE A WORD MATE, THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND!, AND AS YOULL SEE THIS TIME ITS NOT ME THATS AT IT,LOL!


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

what on earth are you on about "silly threats"????? no one, neither me, nor hardrive, has made any threats.

i want to bend nails as a demonstartion of strength. why the hell else? why do you lift weights? why is Hossien RZ as oly lifter. cos i/you/we/they want to. thats why.

and please for the love of god stop telling me to chill. i am chilled. you are the one with the attitude of my 7 year old neice: "he isn't saying mate and putting smilyes in his posts so he hates me". grow up. i don't hate you. i don't know you, you and your opinions mean nothign to me, so why would i not be "chilled"?

anyone with half a brain can see that i am not i any way agressive/provocative. you post, i reply. thats how forums work.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> PANTHRO HAVE A WORD MATE, THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND!, AND AS YOULL SEE THIS TIME ITS NOT ME THATS AT IT,LOL!


if you don't want me to respond then don't ask me questions. its that simple.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Its all good guys.

Just some frendly conversation going on thats all.

I know some of the guys have some extra testosterone floating around and this can cause some aggression.

So just take some deep breaths and communicate like all intelligent Men.

Ive seen his picks and I really want to see the 190 lb pics.

The bending of the nails and tearing of phone books has quite a history for show. This is how Men showed their feats of strength.

Another one was a guy that got up under a hourse and squatted him up. The horse was laying over his shoulders.

The tearing of a phone book is alot of tecnique.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> The tearing of a phone book is alot of tecnique.


damn, my secrets out! 

i will take 2 pics of me (f+ B) @ 190lb as soon as i get my digi cam back off the gf. though the only people that will get to see them will be winger and hacksii. cos i said so


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

NO ONE SAID HARD DRIVE WAS MAKING THREATS, I WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU, RE: DONT DARE CALL ME A LIAR, I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT. GET A GRIP , GET A LIFE, GROW UP ALL YOUVE DONE SINCE YOUR FIRST POST IS CAUSE CONTROVERSY AND I END UP GETTING A REPRIMAND OF PANTHRO FOR SUGGESTING A DEEP BREATH OF CALM, SORRY JAMES BUT YOUR WELL OUT OF ORDER MATE!  NAH WHAT THE HELL I,LL ACT LIKE YOU:mad:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sounds good to me.

Id snap one off of me but post cycle this time around was bad.

You have seen my pics right?

Im old and will be 45 in September.

Oh so will winger. 

I want to check it out titor


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

LARSSON,S GONNA COME BACK TO HAUNT US, LOL NEVER MIND THE ENGLISH TEAMS GOT GOOD DRAWS, CONSPIRACY THEORY OR WHAT, OR AM I JUST PARANOID?


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Here you are james if you want to play silly games with your sig fine oh and its ment as a joke ok       look smilies

completetwatpost.bmp


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

john33, you posted this @ 14:34 today:



> And lets not have any silly threats, were supposed to be adults


so i asked you what silly threats you were on about? and you get all touchy. why the CAPS, its not like i can't read normal letters.



> RE: DONT DARE CALL ME A LIAR, I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT


you said it was hard to beleive so i need to post up some evidence. i told you in nice terms to fcuk off. if you don't beleive it, do you think i care? do you thin it affects my training progress because some random guy doesn't beleive me?



> GOD GET A SENSE OF HUMOUR


beleive it or not, i actually have one. i just haven't had the oppertunity to use it yet as i keep having to reply to tiresome and petty arguements like this.

if you wnat to draw a line under this then go for it. i already have.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

LOL.

John, no shouting please.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

hardrive, thats actually genuinely funny  . though its getting old now.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

RE : TAKE SOME TAMOXIFEN, THAT WAS ACTUALLY WINGER WHO SAID THAT TO YOU, I TOLD YOU TO GET OF THE HALOTESTIN AS A JOKE, I,LL EXPECT AN APOLOGY IN THE POST!


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> RE : TAKE SOME TAMOXIFEN, THAT WAS ACTUALLY WINGER WHO SAID THAT TO YOU, I TOLD YOU TO GET OF THE HALOTESTIN AS A JOKE, I,LL EXPECT AN APOLOGY IN THE POST!


ok,

Dear John33,

i am writing to you to express my most humble apologies for the misquoting of your good self. should you choose to accept this apology i would be forever in your debt (figure of speech).

kind regrds

James xxx


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ok guys, If everyone does not chill out (all) then I will lock this thread.

This is your first and only warning.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

philipebrown said:


> day 1 quads and hams
> 
> day 2 shoulders and triceps
> 
> ...


I think a big part for me is I don't like training more than 4 days a week max,

Hams twice a week and quads only once?

Are you doing any form of rows for you back?

Could you tell me what you do on each day? I'm just curious BTW not trying to pick holes in it.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

to do this , you know lift a car thing i had some pics but ive lost them, when my girlfriend comes back from work, i,ll see if she can be bothered taking any new ones for me to post,lol lol lol lol, ha ha ha, 

oh guys please can we all take hackskiis and panthros advice and lets all be friends again please it was much nicer when we were all cool?


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> Hams twice a week and quads only once?


hope you don't mind me chipping in biker. hams are supposed to be massively more powerful than your quads, though not as big. it depends entirly on the exercise selection though. compound that engage the hams usually have some effect on the quads anyway. if he means isolations on the other hand, you are right imo.



> I think a big part for me is I don't like training more than 4 days a week max,


likewise.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

on way i didnt see your post sorry it wont happen again, but its getting silly now.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> oh guys please can we all take hackskiis and panthros advice and lets all be friends again please it was much nicer when we were all cool?


yep. you will have a PM from me i the next couple of minutes regarding an issue in your most recent post though.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

lol the whole forum is going to end up in your sig mate! 

I'm sad that I didn't even cut the grade to make it into it.

... re this thread feel free to chip in mate


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> I'm sad that I didn't even cut the grade to make it into it.


i was going to put you in but i thought "nah, that wuss will be crying into his beer all night if i do, so i'll give him a break."



> re this thread feel free to chip in mate


have done. see above.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> i was going to put you in but i thought "nah, that wuss will be crying into his beer all night if i do, so i'll give him a break."


lmfao 

Not beer though  No alcohol for me dude.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

> No alcohol for me dude


girl


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

i would like to apologise to james titor for anything he feels was unjust or unrequired, to my fellow lifters and bodybuilders in uk-muscle im sorry if i have in anyway lowered the tone of the forum.

I do feel however that there was more than me who took part in this episode, i think it just shows that we have a difference of opinion and thats healthy it also shows that some can take criticism better than others, so once again im sorry and no hard feelings, john33.:cool:

p.s anyone else got anything to say????????????????


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

I couldnt really lift a car, lol lol lol lol, ha ha ha


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

no room for that if you're serious about training mate, well maybe the odd pint but so far this year I've had 1 guinness.

Don't get me wrong I used to get ****ed every single week but the hangovers started to last longer and longer the older I got (anyone else notice that?) I felt it was getting in the way of my training so I stopped it, I actually don't miss it at all.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

john33 said:


> I couldnt really lift a car, lol lol lol lol, ha ha ha


poof!

Well getting the two back wheels of the ground isn't too hard


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2004)

john, i woud like to add something;

thankyou for the response, i agree that we both can behave a little immaturely sometimes. for that i apologise.

alls cool my end mate.


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## Mr T (Apr 4, 2003)

james im sorry and as i mod i should prob not speak like this but u sicken me.....know it all..


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

Biker said:


> poof!
> 
> Well getting the two back wheels of the ground isn't too hard


lol, what type of **** end of a car did u lift matchbox, joke mate you look like you could manage it!


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

ok guys .. way off topic now and also degenerating rapidly.

Personally James I wouldn't be proud to have those quotes in my sig.



L


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## Mr T (Apr 4, 2003)

my comment was maybe OTT but hey whats the point of living life when guys like james have seen it all, did it all and know better than everyone else, i fed up coming home from a hard days work to read 50 new argueing posts by him.....


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