# Tasty's 8 week Tren, Beard & Alcohol Free Journal



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Welcome one and all, here is my journal for an 8 week cycle that starts next week. I'm a little bit premature posting in here, but I've just sat and written it all out, ordered the bits I need and generally got myself worked up for it. Here goes.

I have done a couple of cycles before and never made the most of them, wasted them in fact - I'm now in a position where I can be more structured and I've learnt to be more organised and less reckless. I'm hoping this means I can get the most out of this cycle. I'm going for low test and higher tren, as I've read around and this seems to be the best way to run it without becoming a sleepless psychopath. I haven't used any gear for over 6 months.

Aims: Body recomp / strength gains

I've put on a little weight over the festive period that I am in the process of shifting. Over the course of this cycle I'm looking for body recomposition and to push my lifts up a little. I've struggled with some injuries over the last few years (I have no ACL ligament in my shoulder now) and as such I've just been lifting light weights. I'm getting stronger each week, benching again with no pain (result!) and looking to push my lifts up.

Cycle:

Tren Ace - 50mg ED - 350mg PW

Test Prop - 50mg MWF - 150mg PW

Mast Prop - 50mg ED - 350mg PW

Caber 0.25mg 2 x PW

I have considered pushing the tren up to 400mg and the test up to 200mg - but my thinking is, if I can get results on less gear then why not? Happy to take advice on this (any of it).

Diet:

This is an outline of an average day, all approximations from myfitness app

1) Shake: approx 30g protein (1 scoop)

Bagel: 10g protein, 50g carbs

4 Eggs: 25g protein, 25g fat

2) 200g chicken: 60g protein

200g rice: 60g carbs

TRAIN

3) Shake: 60g protein (2 scoops)

Banana: 30g carbs

4) Same as two - maybe beef for chicken, rice for potato or pasta

5) Dinner - aim for at least 20-30g protein, good carbs and fats

6) Tub of Quark w/fruit

Protein - min approx 300g

Carbs - 250g-300g

This amounts to around 3,000 calories, without sauces (I will use low-fat mayo with my chicken, etc). Dinner is not set as I eat my dinner in a food hall, but it's usually quite good - salmon and rice, chilli con carne etc. Just going to eat whatever they serve with the highest protein content each day. Also gives me a little freedom to eat out occasionally if needed.

Training:

I'm looking to mix up strength & hypertrophy - currently considering two options. I'm either going to go for a mix of 5x5 and some hypertrophy work OR go for a set plan such as PHAT. If I go for the former, it will look something like this:

Workout 1

Flat Bench 5 x 5

OHP 5 x 5

DB incline press 3 x 8-10

DB Flyes 4 x 10

Lateral Raises 4 x 10

BB Curl 4 x 10

Workout 2

Squat 5 x 5

Leg press 3 x 8-10

Lunges 4 x 10

AB work

Workout 3Lat pull-downs 5 x 5 (I don't deadlift, slipped a disc doing it and won't go back - will swap these for OH pull ups when I'm stronger in a few weeks)

DB Rows 3 x 8-10

Rack pulls 4 x 10

CGBP 4 x 10

Rest

Repeat

Every day after training I try and do a few rounds on the heavy bag.

Please criticise / advice where you can. In the run up to next week I will be doing full-body workouts on a low-carb diet to shift a little fat and prep myself for the cycle.

Thanks!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

@Rick89 You said you'd be interested to see this... Would like your input on the training side of things, as you're a strong ****er.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Good luck with the cycle mate.

I don't mean to sidetrack your thread, but was interested in the bit about your ACL as I injured mine a few years ago and it has never been 100%. How come you don't have an ACL and what is holding the acromion and the clavicle together now?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Good luck with the cycle mate.
> 
> I don't mean to sidetrack your thread, but was interested in the bit about your ACL as I injured mine a few years ago and it has never been 100%. How come you don't have an ACL and what is holding the acromion and the clavicle together now?


Thanks mate and no worries. I stupidly got in a scrap a few NYE's ago and got pulled down a set of stairs backwards - fractured my clavicle and snapped the ACL clean in two. The answer to your question is - nothing, there is nothing holding them together. When I'm leaner I'll post a pic by my clavicle on the left side doesn't end in the right place. They did offer surgery to correct it, but to be honest it could have made it worse. I was in a sling for a few months and loads of physio, it obviously caused me loads of trouble with bench, shoulder work, even squatting (holding the bar). I'd nursed it back to health and this summer an awning at a pub fell on it! Haha. Not had much luck! I'm feeling good now though 

Has your Doctor offered any help?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Id maybe think about structuring you diet so the carbs are more around training.

Maybe

pro fat meal for breaky

Pro carb meal pre,pw,ppw

Pro fat meals rest of the day.

Could be worth thinking about?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

big_jim_87 said:


> Id maybe think about structuring you diet so the carbs are more around training.
> 
> Maybe
> 
> ...


Thanks mate - I had tried to do this with having rice with the meal before training, I might add in some fast carbs to my PWO shake as well as the banana, then rice in the meal after. Do you reckon this is enough or should I push it up? Thanks for the input.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Posting at 1:45 on a Tuesday. Definitely on tren


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

simonthepieman said:


> Posting at 1:45 on a Tuesday. Definitely on tren


Haha I haven't started yet mate! I'm working a bar job until term starts again, so I've not long finished.

As part of all this I'm giving up the drink for a while - working in a pub makes it both easier and harder. Harder because I'm surrounded by lovely drinks, easier because I see what it does to people!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

In the midst of all this I am booked in for a tattoo next Friday - been meaning to for a while and as a friend of mine passed away at Christmas, it pushed me to get in done and add something in there for him. I suppose this means I'll have to not train that arm for a few days? But I can schedule rest around it / squat 

My gear arrives tomorrow so I will post up a lovely pic of my goodies too.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I'd love some feedback on the training plan, also if anyone out there can help with some questions I have on pinning.

As I'll be doing it every day, my plan is to inject the tren @ mast with a slin pin, only using a barrel and needle for the mon, wed, fri jabs that include prop (and some EO, it's Wildcat prop 200 and the pip can be a crippler!). Does this look ok? I imagine mast and tren will go through my slin pin ok...


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tasty said:


> Welcome one and all, here is my journal for an 8 week cycle that starts next week. I'm a little bit premature posting in here, but I've just sat and written it all out, ordered the bits I need and generally got myself worked up for it. Here goes.
> 
> I have done a couple of cycles before and never made the most of them, wasted them in fact - I'm now in a position where I can be more structured and I've learnt to be more organised and less reckless. I'm hoping this means I can get the most out of this cycle. I'm going for low test and higher tren, as I've read around and this seems to be the best way to run it without becoming a sleepless psychopath. I haven't used any gear for over 6 months.
> 
> ...


Add in some SLDL on leg day and swap pull ups for pull downs and we are cooking


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

simonthepieman said:


> Add in some SLDL on leg day and swap pull ups for pull downs and we are cooking


I really want to start deadlifting again, but I'm so worried about injuring myself. I thought about getting a coach perhaps?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tasty said:


> I really want to start deadlifting again, but I'm so worried about injuring myself. I thought about getting a coach perhaps?


what happened?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

simonthepieman said:


> what happened?


I was deadlifting years ago (I was 18, so 7 years ago now) with a mate who was a lot stronger. Didn't want to look like a pussy and take some of his plates off, because I was 18 and stupid, and tried to yank it up. Ended up screwing up my back, couldn't work (or hardly walk) for a couple months, wasn't nice! I might watch some videos and throw in some really light deads at the end of my workout.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tasty said:


> I was deadlifting years ago (I was 18, so 7 years ago now) with a mate who was a lot stronger. Didn't want to look like a pussy and take some of his plates off, because I was 18 and stupid, and tried to yank it up. Ended up screwing up my back, couldn't work (or hardly walk) for a couple months, wasn't nice! I might watch some videos and throw in some really light deads at the end of my workout.


Watch videos, start light, focus on form you'll be fine.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Goodies have arrived! Looking forward to trying the Excel Labs Tren, the middle vial at the back is some prop I had left over, tub on the right is letro (on hand for emergencies, hopefully not needed).



5kg of whey arrives tomorrow (went for the MyProtein offer of 2 x 2.5kg bags for £50, got banoffee and cookies & cream) - also stocking up on VitC and a few herbal Nytols in case the insomnia rears its ugly head


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok so tomorrow is the big day, the start of the cycle. I'm back at uni and found my whey waiting for me - got 5g overall from MyProtein on offer for £50. Went for 2.5kg Banoffee and 2.5kg Cookes & Cream - also found a few samples from Bodybuilding Warehouse in some beautiful flavours so I'll add a little review of those as I go.

This journal is not only my cycle progress I've decided but my journal for being alcohol free AND for growing a beard. Started both from scratch on NYE and I intend to keep them up - drink at least until Feb and probably beyond / cut down a fair bit.

This week is going to be the toughest, adjusting to the diet and dealing with DOMS. I've been out the gym for week or so with illness so it's going to hit me hard. I'll document my lifts tomorrow, won't go too heavy or too much volume, going to ease myself in before going balls to the wall over the coming weeks. Food is delivered soon for the week and I'll include pictures of a day's eating.

PICS - I'll keep pics of my food and supplements and stuff, maybe a few training videos AND next weekend when I'm back home I'll get the mrs to take some of me for progress purposes.

I feel like a kid on Christmas eve!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok so today was / is the day.

I pinned 100mg Tren, 100mg Mast and 75mg Test prop - higher than my ED jabs will be, but it's a little kickstart of sorts.

Today was chest & shoulders. I will be brutally honest, I wanted to lie on here about the weights I moved today. A little embarrassed to say the least but I am returning from injury and I didn't want to push too hard in my first session back, so I will be honest about the lifts and we will see them improve over the coming weeks.

Bench - 5x5 @ 70kg

OHP - 5x5 @ 40kg

Incline DP press - 3x8 @ 20kg per side

Side lateral raises - 3x8 @ 10kg per side

Flyes - 3x10 @ 10kg per side

By the end of the week this will have gone up - I know this - it's just a head**** when you're first getting back.

Followed the diet well today. Cooked up 500g of mince then realised it was turkey mince, then realised I don't like turkey mince BUT I will eat it. So far:

9.30

1 x Bagel

4 x Eggs

1 scoop whey

11.30

200g Rice

200g Turkey Mince

1.30

2 Scoops whey

1 Banana

3.30

200g Sweet potato

200g Steak

Tomorrow will be my first leg day for a long long time, scared but also excited.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok so here's my morning update - the tren is definitely real tren, as I was up and awake a fair few times in the night. Not too big a problem though and I feel ok today, used one such wake up as an excuse to get shake down my neck. I have nytol that I will use sparingly when I need the kip! Other than that I have PIP in my leg but nothing major, most probably from the WC Prop 200 although I did stick some EO in there. Not going to let it affect my leg workout today! Meal plan is a little different I'm having to start with a banana and a shake, as I can't get in the kitchen to make breakfast. This has made me contemplate murder, so again this Excel Tren definitely works.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Jabbed 1ml into my delt with a slin pin, all went ok but this is a new site and I reckon I'm going to get some mad pip from this.


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

Tasty said:


> Jabbed 1ml into my delt with a slin pin, all went ok but this is a new site and I reckon I'm going to get some mad pip from this.


I only got delt pip on my first ever jab and after that it was painless so you should be fine.

How was jabbing with a slin? I had BP tren and it was like jabbing mud, pip was terrible no matter what I did!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Buzzz_ said:


> I only got delt pip on my first ever jab and after that it was painless so you should be fine.
> 
> How was jabbing with a slin? I had BP tren and it was like jabbing mud, pip was terrible no matter what I did!


That's good to know mate, thank you! It was ok, the jab was 0.5ml tren 0.5ml mast and it went through ok, slower than usual of course but ok. My hand was wobbling a little towards the end though. How bad was your delt pip? I've heard stories of people not being able to raise their arm etc!


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

Tasty said:


> That's good to know mate, thank you! It was ok, the jab was 0.5ml tren 0.5ml mast and it went through ok, slower than usual of course but ok. My hand was wobbling a little towards the end though. How bad was your delt pip? I've heard stories of people not being able to raise their arm etc!


I jabbed 2ml test first jab in the anterior delt. It just felt like if been punched in it, it was useable, I was holding ladders up with the pip so it wasn't too bad. But it's hard to gauge your experience from someone else's. Especially with different compounds and potential different delt too.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Buzzz_ said:


> I jabbed 2ml test first jab in the anterior delt. It just felt like if been punched in it, it was useable, I was holding ladders up with the pip so it wasn't too bad. But it's hard to gauge your experience from someone else's. Especially with different compounds and potential different delt too.


Good point. Hopefully it's not too bad, I might do some really light delt work before I hit legs today just to get the blood moving around the area - might help!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Buzzz_ said:


> I jabbed 2ml test first jab in the anterior delt. It just felt like if been punched in it, it was useable, I was holding ladders up with the pip so it wasn't too bad. But it's hard to gauge your experience from someone else's. Especially with different compounds and potential different delt too.


delts hurt the first time, i hear they get better though


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

simonthepieman said:


> delts hurt the first time, i hear they get better though


Well I had to break them in sometime, good to know they'll get better!

Legs today - first time I've trained them for a long time and I'll admit it was hard work. Going to be 100% honest with the weights again no matter how small, as I know they'll shoot up.

Squat:

Warm up 20kg x 10

50kg x 8

5x5 @ 70kg

Leg Press:

3 x 8 @ 100kg

I then went on to superset legs curls and lying ham raises (both on the same machine) can't say the weight as it isn't marked, but did 3 x 10. Didn't do any abs as at this point I threw up in my mouth a bit and decided to call it a day. I'll throw in abs at the end of back day tomorrow or do some on my rest day.


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> delts hurt the first time, i hear they get better though


Yeah it does, If I can remember correctly, delt pip was zero after about third jab but It was very smooth gear.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

:thumbup1:


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Milky said:


> :thumbup1:


Cheers Milky!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Some updates on the drinking and the beard!

Sat in the bar last night with everyone and had a diet coke, turned down a trip to the pub tonight - all is going well on that front so far. Not really struggling with it truth be told. Making sure I still get some social time and to be honest, I don't need drink. I think even when February comes I might lay off it for a while - or at least cut down!

Beard is going strong, mrs hates it but I'm loving it. Going to buy a decent trimmer so I can keep it neat - here's my progress so far!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Day 3 and yesterday's leg session has seriously affected my ability to walk! Might move back day over to tomorrow as I'm no use to anyone.

Having some issues with digestion, I look constantly bloated and feel sluggish as hell with all this food. If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear them.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Update on the lack of alcohol - played for my pool team today (won my singles game against their captain, lost my doubles game but we won 8-1 overall) and didn't have a drink. Been in a fair few social situations whereby I'd usually have a few pints and stayed away so quite proud of myself. Beard is still going strong. Tomorrow I will be back in the gym for my first back day of this course and Friday is my tattoo. Next week I'll really push on and we'll start to see progress


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Back again to talk to myself.

Diet is going well today - I will admit I missed some of my carbs yesterday, but as I didn't train I don't think it's too big a deal? I've been struggling to get it all down truth be told. Another jab in today, no PIP at all from yesterday's quad shot which is marvellous. Training back later but might go very light as I've given myself insane DOMS elsewhere so far and as I'm getting my tattoo tomorrow, it's probably best if my arms aren't sensitive to the touch.


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

Im listening/reading


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

bigchickenlover said:


> Im listening/reading


Thanks mate that's good to know!


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## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

300g protein? Makes no sense, that is ridiculous.

You also kept mentioning fast carbs etc etc, all ridiculous.

"5) Dinner - aim for at least 20-30g protein, good carbs and fats "

Good carbs?

Dude, I'm not meaning to be a dick but this is all nonsense.

Also, what are your bench, and squat numbers? (real numbers plz not added +20kg  )

I read you dont deadlift, goodluck.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ritchiedrama said:


> 300g protein? Makes no sense, that is ridiculous.
> 
> You also kept mentioning fast carbs etc etc, all ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Why is 300g of protein ridiculous? Why are fast carbs ridiculous? By good carbs I meant complex carbs, perhaps should have been a bit more specific for people such as yourself but others on here knew what I meant. You are meaning to be a dick, because you've come onto my journal calling it "ridiculous" and "nonsense". If you think I've got something wrong then why not offer a suggestion rather than offer an insult? That would be you trying not to be a dick. The weights I'm currently lifting are documented here. As I've said I'm returning after quite a serious injury, this week has been the first time I've benched or squatted for a very long time. If you'd like to stick around for the next 8 week you'll see where it goes and hopefully my ridiculous diet will yield some results.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

While we're here, there are a lot of big guys that don't deadlift. @Pscarb for example doesn't and you'd be hard pressed to find a better physique in the UK let alone on here.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> 300g protein? Makes no sense, that is ridiculous.
> 
> You also kept mentioning fast carbs etc etc, all ridiculous.
> 
> ...


ok i have to challenge you on this.....

why is 300g of pro ridiculous?

why are fast carbs ridiculous?

as for the good luck part when mentioning deadlifts seriously why the good luck comment? good luck for what?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tasty said:


> While we're here, there are a lot of big guys that don't deadlift. @Pscarb for example doesn't and you'd be hard pressed to find a better physique in the UK let alone on here.


there are certainly better in the UK buddy bout thanks, i don't squat either


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## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tasty said:


> Why is 300g of protein ridiculous? Why are fast carbs ridiculous? By good carbs I meant complex carbs, perhaps should have been a bit more specific for people such as yourself but others on here knew what I meant. You are meaning to be a dick, because you've come onto my journal calling it "ridiculous" and "nonsense". If you think I've got something wrong then why not offer a suggestion rather than offer an insult? That would be you trying not to be a dick. The weights I'm currently lifting are documented here. As I've said I'm returning after quite a serious injury, this week has been the first time I've benched or squatted for a very long time. If you'd like to stick around for the next 8 week you'll see where it goes and hopefully my ridiculous diet will yield some results.





Pscarb said:


> ok i have to challenge you on this.....
> 
> why is 300g of pro ridiculous?
> 
> ...


Ok, first of all NO data suggests anywhere to eat the amount of protein you are.

Secondly you're in an energy surplus, protein requirements can be even lower and also lower if carbs are higher.

Lyle McDonald, Eric Helms, Alan Aragon, Layne Norton (I believe) have plenty of science to back this up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24092765/ - Eric Helms data (and this is for people in a RESTRICTED energy state).





 - Jason Blaha on natural vs Enhanced Athletes





 - Jason Blaha on Eric Helms data and Jason suggests even LOWER protein intake because Eric's is too high

As for carbs, a carb is a carb, just eat the carbs you ENJOY most. I've been through this before. Data: http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html - Plenty of references there.

Don't worry about eating 6 meals a day, sort your correct macro-nutrient intake out and hit your targets, that is it.

Lower your protein, get more carbs in your diet.

Take this as you will, I don't really care - but it pains me to see such things.

And to clarify the deadlift, good luck comment, It wasn't a goodluck for the deadlifts - it was a good luck in general. Apologies.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have read all this data and even these guys agree everyone is different and therefore you should find what works for you as an individual.

there is no data to show that using this amount of Protein is harmful, there is no data to suggest you cannot eat this amount of protein either, plus the TEF from protein is a plus.

you may have been through a carb is a carb theory before but that does not mean it is gospel, a carb is not a carb when you place fibre, enzymes and effect on insulin release into the equation, so by your theory a guy who is severely obese can eat sugar donuts as hi only carb source and as long as they fit with his numbers he is cool?? not that simple.....

you need to put down the books sometimes and do some trial and error in the real world, i work with many people male, female, big small etc....and i can tell you now a carb is not a carb for everyone and more carbs is not the answer for everyone. i for one cannot eat the same amount of carbs as say @Tinytom my metabolism/physique/makeup does not allow me to, yet if i match the calories with a slightly changed macro split that goes more towards Pro/Fats over carbs then i grow and grow very well without putting to much bad weight on......

so back to the deadlift and the good luck message


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## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> i have read all this data and even these guys agree everyone is different and therefore you should find what works for you as an individual.
> 
> as for the Protein there is no data to show using more protein than what is needed is harmful plus the TEF from protein is a plus.
> 
> ...


1) we're not talking about anyone who is obese - however, I was obese and lost all my fat lbs through eating whatever carbs I chose. I know you are a fan of the 'bro-science' way but I'll be honest with you, real science is much more accurate 

2) I never claimed high protein intake was harmful, however; 300g of protein is expensive, and pointless. Adding a tonne more Carbohydrates in his diet would provide several benefits. As for the thing you said about eating as many carbs as Tinytom, it is ridiculous and I'm fairly certain you don't even log the foods/macronutrients you intake (forgive me, if I am wrong).

Calories is what makes you gain weight, your comment of "putting bad weight on" and your signature comment are absurd. I think you're a great guy pscarb, and I have respect for you I can tell you that much; but open your mind to the possibility that what you are preaching is non-sense and you could enjoy a much more flexible diet if you were to drop these ridiculous ideas.

To hit on the carb thing again, also. Like Marc Lobliner said in a recent video he is as bro as it gets, but all carb glucose ends up the same way in the body, and it does not matter - and he said if people don't understand that, they need to start learning.





 - Marc Lobliner (I am aware this is not science, however, what he is saying is).


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

@Tasty im reading too


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> 1) we're not talking about anyone who is obese - however, I was obese and lost all my fat lbs through eating whatever carbs I chose. I know you are a fan of the 'bro-science' way but I'll be honest with you, real science is much more accurate


for starters please do not insult me by assuming things about what i do or do not believe, firstly i am no advocate of bro science i am a believer in real world results and although there are many studies that are very relevant a lot of science is not. my knowledge and hence the advice i give comes from 25yrs in the game based on both real world and scientific results........just because you have accomplished something does not mean everyone can i know as i have seen it.



ritchiedrama said:


> 2) I never claimed high protein intake was harmful, however; 300g of protein is expensive, and pointless. Adding a tonne more Carbohydrates in his diet would provide several benefits. As for the thing you said about eating as many carbs as Tinytom, it is ridiculous and I'm fairly certain you don't even log the foods/macronutrients you intake (forgive me, if I am wrong).


you did not claim this but you also did not give a reason why eating this amount of protein cannot be of benefit, again you make assumptions i do log everything i eat both in the off season and pre comp, i weigh all my food apart from on a sunday where i relax, i am a advocate of this as in my opinion if you do not know what you are eating how can things be adjusted when you hit a wall in your progress? so what i have said about me and tiny tom is very accurate.....



ritchiedrama said:


> Calories is what makes you gain weight, your comment of "putting bad weight on" and your signature comment are absurd. I think you're a great guy pscarb, and I have respect for you I can tell you that much; but open your mind to the possibility that what you are preaching is non-sense and you could enjoy a much more flexible diet if you were to drop these ridiculous ideas.


i do not preach i write what i believe in, again with the assumptions that i have not tried what you are preaching....tut tut there are many reasons to why a calories is not just a calorie and other factors come into play, to be fair buddy i neither ask for or want your respect show me what you have achieved with this blinded way of eating and i will show you what i have achieved with my "Bro-Science" ways as you put it, and i am not talking about just with me.......



ritchiedrama said:


> To hit on the carb thing again, also. Like Marc Lobliner said in a recent video he is as bro as it gets, but all carb glucose ends up the same way in the body, and it does not matter - and he said if people don't understand that, they need to start learning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


again i fail to see your point, for every person who says one thing there is 10 more saying another........you seem to listen and read a lot then preach that knowledge but how much have you put into action? and then looked at the results......by your theories you could just eat haribo as a carb source and be good to go?? mmmm matching calories yes i suppose it would sound ok but then you have to look at the e numbers and the lack of enzymes but results would come because calories would be matched yes?? well as i have said before on such blinded threads it is not as simple as that.....

but to be fair i have had this type of argument with guys loads of times over the years and not one of them have built a decent physique and just seem to preach about a single way of doing things then criticise me for doing the same  the irony

you continue with this way of eating and i will continue with mine i will let both mine and my clients physiques do the talking by the results they achieve......

good luck

no reply on the dead lift comment then?? what do your videos say about that


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

@Tasty . What body fat are you ?


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> for starters please do not insult me by assuming things about what i do or do not believe, firstly i am no advocate of bro science i am a believer in real world results and although there are many studies that are very relevant a lot of science is not. my knowledge and hence the advice i give comes from 25yrs in the game based on both real world and scientific results........just because you have accomplished something does not mean everyone can i know as i have seen it.
> 
> you did not claim this but you also did not give a reason why eating this amount of protein cannot be of benefit, again you make assumptions i do log everything i eat both in the off season and pre comp, i weigh all my food apart from on a sunday where i relax, i am a advocate of this as in my opinion if you do not know what you are eating how can things be adjusted when you hit a wall in your progress? so what i have said about me and tiny tom is very accurate.....
> 
> ...


Read my first reply to you, about the deadlift comment, I edited it over 30 minutes ago.

You say you've argued with people over the years who haven't built a decent physique, but hundreds of people use Flexible dieting, Matt Ogus, Alberto Nunez - you say you use real world results, that' bro science dude, you are starting to sound ridiculous again. It doesn't matter how long you've been in the game - no one is saying what you do, does not work;as it does- but you're telling me other alternative methods don't work, or work aswell, which is absolute bull. I know for a fact you'll always get the other bro's coming in here defending your point, but that does not make you right, giiven your status it'll always be me vs the 100 on this forum; but you are talking nonsense.

If you HAD used flexible dieting and used the same macronutrient breakdown with different foods, results would be the same - that isn't even up for debate.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> 300g protein? Makes no sense, that is ridiculous.
> 
> You also kept mentioning fast carbs etc etc, all ridiculous.
> 
> ...


300g protein is fine for me a day. I've eaten more in a day but doesn't really make a difference to my progress.

I'm 95kg so a 2g protein x1kg ration is 190g a day for maintenance and 3 x 1kg for growth. So I'm im optimal range.

I think a lot of this super protein consumption is flawed thinking. Really if your digestive system is functioning well and the protein you eat is complete then 300g a day is sufficient for most peoples needs.

A lot of people are overweight and think that this weight also dictates protein consumption. If you are 3stone overweight from fat. Then how does this help by incorporating into the daily calorie requirement.

I don't bench. When I did used to I got shoulder issues. I prefer an incline press or DB press.

I also don't heavy Deadlift anymore. I prefer to Deadlift at the end of the session when the back is fatigued so that I can focus totally on the back as a muscle group.

I do like squatting but again I don't go for one rep max. Why would I if I'm a Bber and looking at physique enhancement rather than strength maximums. Personally if you are looking for a physique enhancement I would suggest not focussing on deads squats and bench as a measure of success. That's an old school 'my dick is bigger' type argument.

Lots of people in my gym stronger than me on bench and deads. But I'm bigger in terms of muscle.

Not trying to be a Cnut with this post but I do think your post to Tasty was a bit venomous and intended to put him down. If it wasn't then no probs but I do dislike this bro logic that the biggest lifts and the most food mean bigger muscles. Partially true but there's lots of ingredients in a physique.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> 300g protein is fine for me a day. I've eaten more in a day but doesn't really make a difference to my progress.
> 
> I'm 95kg so a 2g protein x1kg ration is 190g a day for maintenance and 3 x 1kg for growth. So I'm im optimal range.
> 
> ...


My deadlift comment was explained, it was not intended.

Protein requirements in a surplus are lowered, not raised.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Read my first reply to you, about the deadlift comment, I edited it over 30 minutes ago.
> 
> You say you've argued with people over the years who haven't built a decent physique, but hundreds of people use Flexible dieting, Matt Ogus, Alberto Nunez - you say you use real world results, that' bro science dude, you are starting to sound ridiculous again. It doesn't matter how long you've been in the game - no one is saying what you do, does not work;as it does- but you're telling me other alternative methods don't work, or work aswell, which is absolute bull. I know for a fact you'll always get the other bro's coming in here defending your point, but that does not make you right, giiven your status it'll always be me vs the 100 on this forum; but you are talking nonsense.
> 
> If you HAD used flexible dieting and used the same macronutrient breakdown with different foods, results would be the same - that isn't even up for debate.


well it is because it does not.....

firstly i am not your Bro and secondly i never said flexible dieting cannot work i said that you cannot eat haribo as your only carb source and get the same results maybe you should read my replies more closely.....

now i get results and it does matter how long i have been in the game it is called experience........and real world results is not Bro Science it is methods that work in real life, Bro-Science is doing something blindly just because it has always been done that way hell if your going to argue at least get your facts right....

so how many dieting methods have you actually tried? you seem to be an expert on this as you seem to be on cycling steroids yet you are in your 5th week on your first cycle?? but an expert from your posts.....

now i have been nice i have not ridiculed you in any way you do well to do the same 

you keep saying about how my methods work but i am blinded about other methods yet you are doing the same so what is the difference.....????

don't debate on what others have said debate on what you have actually done and from what i can tell you was fat then got ripped...........of hold on i remember you your the guy who when questioned about your weight and BF% achieved it was all out of whack.........ah yes the penny has just dropped well this is where i stop debating with someone with zero experience.......

have a good day

ps just seen your edit on the dead lift....ha ha yea ok thats exactly what you meant lol


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> well it is because it does not.....
> 
> firstly i am not your Bro and secondly i never said flexible dieting cannot work i said that you cannot eat haribo as your only carb source and get the same results maybe you should read my replies more closely.....
> 
> ...


How many dieting methods have I done?

I've done "clean" eating.

I've tried ketosis.

I've tried carb cycling.

I used flexible dieting latest, and would never change back. There is no need.

I never called you my 'bro' - you're actually quite rude, whether or not I am, you're immature for an adult. You don't like it when your ridiculous ideas/comments are challenged, I can tell. The things you are preaching are bro-science. You've also been banging on about haribo for a carb source, not one human being unless a moron would only eat haribo forr an entire day for their carb source, you're the kind of embarassment that uses examples to an extreme.

My use of steroids, or how long I've been using steroids is irrelevant, and this is how I know I've touched a nerve, this does not in anyway at all have anything to do with scientific knowledge. There are plenty of people, as stated with better physiques than you, who are dumber than you, and there are plenty who are smarter than you.

You stop debating with me because all you do is repeat the same bro-science, and you use THAT as gospel, you claim experience, but from what you're typing - it is bro science which you preach.

Yes, my deadlift comment did mean that - you know why? I didn't deadlift for over a year due to a back injury and I certainly don't "enjoy" Deadlifts.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> My deadlift comment was explained, it was not intended.
> 
> Protein requirements in a surplus are lowered, not raised.


Ok so just going by the numbers.

If I had 300g of incomplete pea or wheat protein a day.

That would be the same in terms of usable muscle building protein as 300g of chicken and whey?

Considering how you need a complete protein for optimal muscle building.

I attended an excellent seminar with phil Learney where he talked about this 'carb is a carb' debate. But I won't bother going into it as I'm pretty sure he explained it all in the almond milk thread where you posted a lot.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

this post makes no sense at all you contradict yourself from previous posts all the time.....i stop debating with you because you do not debate you repeat what others have said and believe it as truth.....

and you are walking a fine line with the insults i will not warn you again.....


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> Ok so just going by the numbers.
> 
> If I had 300g of incomplete pea or wheat protein a day.
> 
> ...


he did and this expert we have here dismissed him


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> Ok so just going by the numbers.
> 
> If I had 300g of incomplete pea or wheat protein a day.
> 
> ...


Not sure if I fully understand what you mean with the protein source you talked about - I'm not talking about sources, I'm talking you do not need 300g of protein a day 

I remember the posts with phil, I can't remember what the outcome was - but whichever it was, Science backs up what I stated, time and time again :-D

gotta go out for an all you can eat chinese now, better not gain too much bad weight right, pscarb? :}


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Not sure if I fully understand what you mean with the protein source you talked about - I'm not talking about sources, I'm talking you do not need 300g of protein a day
> 
> I remember the posts with phil, I can't remember what the outcome was - but whichever it was, Science backs up what I stated, time and time again :-D
> 
> gotta go out for an all you can eat chinese now, better not gain too much bad weight right, pscarb? :}


that is correct i am glad you are listening and learning


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> this post makes no sense at all you contradict yourself from previous posts all the time.....i stop debating with you because you do not debate you repeat what others have said and believe it as truth.....
> 
> and you are walking a fine line with the insults i will not warn you again.....


Insults? lol

I use Science as my source of information, I show you plenty of studies, you call people who follow different dieting methods people who have poor physiques when there are plenty with better than you who follow flexible dieting.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> that is correct i am glad you are listening and learning


That just goes to show that you haven't learnt the right information over 25 years, that is all. Like I said, preaching bro science. You are a lean individual, calories make you gain fat, not what types of foods you eat.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Insults? lol
> 
> I use Science as my source of information, I show you plenty of studies,


you show me 4 studies??



ritchiedrama said:


> you call people who follow different dieting methods people who have poor physiques when there are plenty with better than you who follow flexible dieting.


not sure what this means but i certainly have not said flexible dieting does not work and there are thousands of people with better physiques than me if not 100's of thousands but you are not one of them


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Insults? lol
> 
> I use Science as my source of information, I show you plenty of studies, you call people who follow different dieting methods people who have poor physiques when there are plenty with better than you who follow flexible dieting.


Interesting that you do rely on 'science' quotes.

Science is constantly changing and the whole thing with science is that it is constantly being challenged. By scientists.

To say you can't argue with science is actually a very clouded vision as scientists are constantly arguing with scientists. Challenging beliefs.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> That just goes to show that you haven't learnt the right information over 25 years, that is all. Like I said, preaching bro science. You are a lean individual, calories make you gain fat, not what types of foods you eat.


Ha HA.........should you not be going to eat something?? or going to Math lessons


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> you show me 4 studies??
> 
> not sure what this means but i certainly have not said flexible dieting does not work and there are thousands of people with better physiques than me if not 100's of thousands but you are not one of them


Sure, I am not one of them, but I am 24 years old and not used steroids for years - but I bet you one thing, I'll catch up


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> Ha HA.........should you not be going to eat something?? or going to Math lessons


Talks about insults, acts pig ignorant himself.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> That just goes to show that you haven't learnt the right information over 25 years, that is all. Like I said, preaching bro science. You are a lean individual, calories make you gain fat, not what types of foods you eat.


Actually it's not the calories. It's the calorific pathways.

Do you know the difference between the glucagon and insulin pathways?

This is how individuals who eat very low cal diets still end up fat.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> Interesting that you do rely on 'science' quotes.
> 
> Science is constantly changing and the whole thing with science is that it is constantly being challenged. By scientists.
> 
> To say you can't argue with science is actually a very clouded vision as scientists are constantly arguing with scientists. Challenging beliefs.


I agree, scienctists are always arguing with each other and challenging beliefs. But there is no study ever to suggest 300g of protein in anyone, especially not the OP.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> Actually it's not the calories. It's the calorific pathways.
> 
> Do you know the difference between the glucagon and insulin pathways?
> 
> This is how individuals who eat very low cal diets still end up fat.


If you are in an energy deficit you will not gain weight, that is the end of that.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Sure, I am not one of them, but I am 24 years old and not used steroids for years - but I bet you one thing, I'll catch up


not used steroids for years but on his 5th week of a cycle??? how does that make sense?????? please refer to Math comment 



ritchiedrama said:


> Talks about insults, acts pig ignorant himself.


ha ha i am afraid you have now stepped over the line if you cannot debate without making sly digs at me then you do not deserve to debate, you constantly say about me being blinded yet from your posts today and the ones in the Almond milk thread where you lied about your weight loss are blinded to anyone else's opinions.......


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Not sure if I fully understand what you mean with the protein source you talked about - I'm not talking about sources, I'm talking you do not need 300g of protein a day
> 
> I remember the posts with phil, I can't remember what the outcome was - but whichever it was, Science backs up what I stated, time and time again :-D
> 
> :}


I'm referring to the quality of the protein source. Surely you understand the basics of protein content and that animal proteins are normally vastly superior to veg source.

This is what I meant when I said about people consuming high protein diets unnecessarily because they don't consume enough complete protein. In a way agreeing with your statement about high protein.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> I'm referring to the quality of the protein source. Surely you understand the basics of protein content and that animal proteins are normally vastly superior to veg source.
> 
> This is what I meant when I said about people consuming high protein diets unnecessarily because they don't consume enough complete protein. In a way agreeing with your statement about high protein.


I know animal proteins are better, but not the entire story which I can admit - but it isn't an issue for me as I eat a lot of meat, I believe it is due to Amino Acids, but that's just in my memory somewhere could be wrong.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> not used steroids for years but on his 5th week of a cycle??? how does that make sense?????? please refer to Math comment
> 
> ha ha i am afraid you have now stepped over the line if you cannot debate without making sly digs at me then you do not deserve to debate, you constantly say about me being blinded yet from your posts today and the ones in the Almond milk thread where you lied about your weight loss are blinded to anyone else's opinions.......


I've stepped over the line? Read back your posts. You are being just as rude if not more. But you believe you can use your social status to talk down to me with your rude comments.

Yes, I've used steroids for five weeks, not yeas. You have used steroids for years.

Talk about my maths, yet you need to take English lessons I guess?


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

This thread may seem a bit aggressive but its actually full of information !


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> If you are in an energy deficit you will not gain weight, that is the end of that.


Actually no. Because the true energy deficit required for long term weight loss means that you will lose muscle before fat.

Because the body will enter a starvation phase of gluconeogenisis whereby bodyfat and muscle will be turned to energy.

This means that long term you lose body mass.

Would you say that's optimum from a physique perspective?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> I've stepped over the line? Read back your posts. You are being just as rude if not more. But you believe you can use your social status to talk down to me with your rude comments.
> 
> Yes, I've used steroids for five weeks, not yeas. You have used steroids for years.
> 
> Talk about my maths, yet you need to take English lessons I guess?


show me where i have talked down to you..........not where i have questioned your knowledge as that is a question just show me where i have insulted or talked down to you? have i called you things like pig ignorant or dumb.....


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> I know animal proteins are better, but not the entire story which I can admit - but it isn't an issue for me as I eat a lot of meat, I believe it is due to Amino Acids, but that's just in my memory somewhere could be wrong.


Not being too nasty but how can you profess to know so much about diet and nutrition without knowing that there are 22 amino acids in protein as a complete source?

But you are quick to write Paul off as knowing nothing and being closed minded?

Seriously before you want to enter a debate about advanced nutrition you should make yourself aware of those basics.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> Actually no. Because the true energy deficit required for long term weight loss means that you will lose muscle before fat.
> 
> Because the body will enter a starvation phase of gluconeogenisis whereby bodyfat and muscle will be turned to energy.
> 
> ...


for gods sake man stop with the Bro science you cannot gain fat when in a calorie deficit


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> Actually no. Because the true energy deficit required for long term weight loss means that you will lose muscle before fat.
> 
> Because the body will enter a starvation phase of gluconeogenisis whereby bodyfat and muscle will be turned to energy.
> 
> ...


A standard deficit, of 500-1000 calories, with sufficient protein intake (higher than if in surplus) - will work just fine. I do not claim to know everything,, and this has moved on from the original debate, I only debated what I did know.



Tinytom said:


> Not being too nasty but how can you profess to know so much about diet and nutrition without knowing that there are 22 amino acids in protein as a complete source?
> 
> But you are quick to write Paul off as knowing nothing and being closed minded?
> 
> Seriously before you want to enter a debate about advanced nutrition you should make yourself aware of those basics.


Same as above.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> for gods sake man stop with the Bro science you cannot gain fat when in a calorie deficit


Well that is impossible and if you think otherwise, that does show your true colours.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> show me where i have talked down to you..........not where i have questioned your knowledge as that is a question just show me where i have insulted or talked down to you? have i called you things like pig ignorant or dumb.....


Telling me to take maths lessons, mentioniing my physique (irrelevant) you just reply like a child.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Well that is impossible and if you think otherwise, that does show your true colours.





ritchiedrama said:


> Telling me to take maths lessons, mentioniing my physique (irrelevant) you just reply like a child.


ha ha ok then


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

have a good day.

@Tasty - on a serious note. you do not need 300g protein, not at all.

good luck with your log, sorry for all the posts.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> A standard deficit, of 500-1000 calories, with sufficient protein intake (higher than if in surplus) - will work just fine. I do not claim to know everything,, and this has moved on from the original debate, I only debated what I did know.
> 
> Same as above.


You've contradicted here.

As you've stated 'sufficient protein intake' as a fact not knowing that complete proteins will have a highe AA content and thus be muscle sparing. An incomplete protein will only contribute so much and most likely lead to muscle wastage.

That's why quality of protein is so important. If you don't know about the amino acids how can you possibly say 'sufficient' protein with any credibility.

Again not meaning to be nasty but it's evident that you need to learn a lot more about nutrition before having in depth debates with very knowledgable people.

Not saying your view is invalid but it lacks credibility. You say you're 24. I knew a fair bit back when I was 24 but that's the foundation of my knowledge now which is far superior because I've attended seminars and researched a lot and listened to experts in the industry.

You have a tendency to state a viewpoint as fact. Science is not fact. It's simply the knowledge that is known at the moment. It is constantly adapting.

For example phophatidylserine is a plant sterol that 12 years ago I bought very cheaply for anti stress and cortisol lowering after reading an obscure article in a journal. 5 years later it's linked to serious stress reduction and cortisol suppression and now you can't buy it at a reasonable cost.

At the time 'science' had not discovered it but it was known to the health community. So just because science did not recognise this anecdotal medicine it's a worthless piece of knowledge as it's not 'proven' by science?

Very blinkered attitude not to recognise real world application over proven double blind studies.

All information has merit.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> You've contradicted here.
> 
> As you've stated 'sufficient protein intake' as a fact not knowing that complete proteins will have a highe AA content and thus be muscle sparing. An incomplete protein will only contribute so much and most likely lead to muscle wastage.
> 
> ...


These scientific protein numbers from these studies ARE applied to real world situations, and work, as they should.

This whole Amino Acid complete protein stuff wasn't even anything I was directly talking about - so let me rephrase - he does not need 300g of animal protein products, 200 would be enough (I don't know his bodyweight, but his bf is not low). He is also in a surplus, so even less protein required. I don't take anything you say as nasty - you're a polite poster and I try and be as mature and reply as polite as I can,, because you're not posting nonsense.

My discussion with pscarb doesn't really require more knowledge at all. Extremely basic knowledge is all that is needed to deal with that debate with him.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Mate. Paul is one of the most knowledgable guys I know.

He's blunt talking but he knows his stuff.


----------



## ritchiedrama (Aug 21, 2013)

Tinytom said:


> Mate. Paul is one of the most knowledgable guys I know.
> 
> He's blunt talking but he knows his stuff.


Why has he posted such ridiculous information then? You telling me he is knowledagable is irrelevant.

I'll take Eric Helms, Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Layne Norton's information over his immature ramblings.


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> @Tasty . What body fat are you ?


At the moment around 20% I think, possibly less. It's hard to know because I carry it all on my stomach and chest and very little elsewhere. It's coming down though!


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ritchiedrama said:


> Why has he posted such ridiculous information then? You telling me he is knowledagable is irrelevant.
> 
> I'll take Eric Helms, Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Layne Norton's information over his immature ramblings.


dismissing someones knowledge because they do not agree with an opinion formed by an expert but repeated by someone who dismisses all other opinions than there own is the immature thing on this thread.......


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tasty said:


> At the moment around 20% I think, possibly less. It's hard to know because I carry it all on my stomach and chest and very little elsewhere. It's coming down though!


Tasty sorry for the derailment buddy


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ritchiedrama said:


> Why has he posted such ridiculous information then? You telling me he is knowledagable is irrelevant.
> 
> I'll take Eric Helms, Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Layne Norton's information over his immature ramblings.


I think you need to calm down with your hyperbole. There has been some great information in this thread now and massive thanks to @Tinytom and @Pscarb for their inputs - none of which has been ridiculous. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's worthy of ridicule (the actual meaning of ridiculous). Remember Aristotle, the mark of a wise man is that he can entertain a thought without accepting it. Dismissing everything you don't agree with out of hand devalues your argument massively.

My two cents - I have to make up the calories somewhere and I don't respond well to carbs. Telling me to up my carbs and lower my protein isn't going to help me personally, I know my body and I know that keeping my carbs high at other times has led to fat gain. Also I think I'm right in saying that AAS enables my body to make use of more protein? I'd rather go higher and definitely hit what I need, than lower with more carbs, possibly miss my protein intake and get fat. If any of this is wrong please correct me, but this is it as I understand it!


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> Tasty sorry for the derailment buddy


Not at all mate, some great info here.


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

AND one final post, the post I had intended for today, my tattoo is done. The hand with IMP on it and the cards is for my friend that passed away over Christmas, IMP was his nickname and as a massive poker lover (and the man who taught me) so it's a tribute to him. The Bell is part of my college emblem at uni.


----------



## davaxtc1 (Sep 26, 2013)

Sound like a bunch of bitch's, shhhh i want to hear about the tren!


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

davaxtc1 said:


> Sound like a bunch of bitch's, shhhh i want to hear about the tren!


On the tren front, it's affected my sleep and I've had a slight rise in aggressive thoughts but otherwise I'm ok. I think the ED shots might be helping? Give it time though! I can't wait for it to start kicking in properly.


----------



## wtw (Jan 10, 2013)

Good journal mate! Interested to hear how you get on with the tren.


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## davaxtc1 (Sep 26, 2013)

What's your PCT look like? You running an AI?


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

wtw said:


> Good journal mate! Interested to hear how you get on with the tren.


Thanks mate, me too! Haha.



davaxtc1 said:


> What's your PCT look like? You running an AI?


Running caber and a small amount of letro to keep everything in check! PCT will be ROHM PCT caps as it's easy to remember, along with HCG


----------



## davaxtc1 (Sep 26, 2013)

Are you running hgc throughout cycle?


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

davaxtc1 said:


> Are you running hgc throughout cycle?


No I'm not, I've read a lot of conflicting information about HCG, some advocate it and some don't. I do tend to agree with the fact that it seems odd to keep bringing them back on for them to be immediately switched off?


----------



## davaxtc1 (Sep 26, 2013)

HGC prevents complete shutdown when on


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

davaxtc1 said:


> HGC prevents complete shutdown when on


This is where I've heard otherwise, apparently you can't avoid complete shutdown and you're better to save your HCG for rebooting? I'd be happy to use it though if it will help.


----------



## davaxtc1 (Sep 26, 2013)

Well HCG mimics LH does is it not? Which in turn signals the testes to produce T.... well it certainly keeps balls plump and makes recovery easier, Have you noticed any shrinking whilst running this cycle?


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

late in on here buddy but looks like things are going smoothly so far

look forward to seeing your results , training looks spot on and jim is right on the diet front get them pro fats in and juggle carbs around training

keep up the work subbed mate


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

davaxtc1 said:


> Well HCG mimics LH does is it not? Which in turn signals the testes to produce T.... well it certainly keeps balls plump and makes recovery easier, Have you noticed any shrinking whilst running this cycle?


Not yet but I am less than a week in - I might invest mate, better to be safe than sorry. Tren is known for hard shutdowns so I suppose it's worth it. Thanks for the advice!



Rick89 said:


> late in on here buddy but looks like things are going smoothly so far
> 
> look forward to seeing your results , training looks spot on and jim is right on the diet front get them pro fats in and juggle carbs around training
> 
> keep up the work subbed mate


Hello mate! I'll move the diet around a bit then, see what I can improve and then put it in here for all to see. Good to hear some feedback on the training, hopefully I can really start pushing on! Going to have to leave any work with my arms for a few days to let this tattoo settle in though!


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

what did jim advise with diet mate?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> what did jim advise with diet mate?


To centre my carbs around training more - so pre, post and post-post workout. I'd prefer this actually as I'm struggling to get them down a bit. I may also space my meals out a little more as I'm find I've barely digested the last meal each time I eat and there's a period in the evenings where I'm not getting much food in and supplementing with shakes.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Oh and an update on the tren sides - my sleep is improving which is great, I think kick-starting with 100mg affected the first few days but it seems to be settling. Not feeling too aggressive (the odd flash of murder here and there :whistling: ) either. I am occasionally getting that sort of 'detached' feeling from time to time, where I don't care about much, but that comes and goes, doesn't last long. I'm away from home studying most of the time too so if I feel like that I can go hide away on my todd and it doesn't affect my life too much. I feel generally more confident too - not that I ever lack confidence, but I feel I can take the world on. Got stared down by some gang-types in Tottenham earlier and it didn't phase me in the slightest just strolled through them.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Tasty said:


> To centre my carbs around training more - so pre, post and post-post workout. I'd prefer this actually as I'm struggling to get them down a bit. I may also space my meals out a little more as I'm find I've barely digested the last meal each time I eat and there's a period in the evenings where I'm not getting much food in and supplementing with shakes.


what reason is to centre carbs around workout.? is this to lean out or gain muscle? Ive seen a few times on here just dont know the reason ?!?!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> what reason is to centre carbs around workout.? is this to lean out or gain muscle? Ive seen a few times on here just dont know the reason ?!?!


My thinking would be pre-workout to provide energy and post to replenish, with the added bonus that you will burn it faster than other times of the day (metabolism firing from workout etc) so will help with my recomp goals.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Tasty said:


> My thinking would be pre-workout to provide energy and post to replenish, with the added bonus that you will burn it faster than other times of the day (metabolism firing from workout etc) so will help with my recomp goals.


So if i followed that diet protocol mate i will gain mass and burn fat?? sorry for the questions but diet baffles me !!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> So if i followed that diet protocol mate i will gain mass and burn fat?? sorry for the questions but diet baffles me !!


No it's ok. I think with gear it's more possible.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

davaxtc1 said:


> HGC prevents complete shutdown when on


this is not true buddy it does not prevent shutdown it keeps the testes ticking over so when the cycle is over and recovery through PCT is the goal it makes it smoother....

think of it this way...

if you left a car in a garage over the harsh winter months and did not go in a turn the engine over when it came to spring to take the car out and drive it trying to start it would be a b1tch...

now with the same car go in once a week and turn the engine over then when spring arrives starting the car will be much easier......

apply this to your nuts when on cycle, by using HCG to keep them ticking over when PCT comes around recovery will be much easier.



Kennyken said:


> what reason is to centre carbs around workout.? is this to lean out or gain muscle? Ive seen a few times on here just dont know the reason ?!?!


using carbs around the PERI nutrition window has shown to increase recovery over not having them around a workout.

this study carried out on bodybuilders over a 10 week period found that Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from resistance training.

you can find the study here:Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> this is not true buddy it does not prevent shutdown it keeps the testes ticking over so when the cycle is over and recovery through PCT is the goal it makes it smoother....
> 
> think of it this way...
> 
> ...


What if carbs are taken with every meal throughout the day. Would the results be noticeable compared to just pre and post work out carbs. Say for a beginner?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> this is not true buddy it does not prevent shutdown it keeps the testes ticking over so when the cycle is over and recovery through PCT is the goal it makes it smoother....
> 
> think of it this way...
> 
> ...


I will invest in some HCG and have a read of that article, thank you.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Tasty said:


> Thanks mate and no worries. I stupidly got in a scrap a few NYE's ago and got pulled down a set of stairs backwards - fractured my clavicle and snapped the ACL clean in two. The answer to your question is - nothing, there is nothing holding them together. When I'm leaner I'll post a pic by my clavicle on the left side doesn't end in the right place. They did offer surgery to correct it, but to be honest it could have made it worse. I was in a sling for a few months and loads of physio, it obviously caused me loads of trouble with bench, shoulder work, even squatting (holding the bar). I'd nursed it back to health and this summer an awning at a pub fell on it! Haha. Not had much luck! I'm feeling good now though
> 
> Has your Doctor offered any help?


Hello mate, bit of a late reply.

Presumably your traps hold everything together then.

I had all sorts of treatment - chiropractic, physio, a couple of cortisone jabs. The pain seemed to move from my A/C joint to my shoulder joint which was a bit strange. Eventually went away but has returned a bit lately so I'm back doing rehab exercises etc.

Hope yours doesn't give you any more grief - it's demoralising when you have injuries that won't go away.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Hello mate, bit of a late reply.
> 
> Presumably your traps hold everything together then.
> 
> ...


If I'm honest mate I've been very lucky. They told me at the time I might never get my arm above shoulder-height and I'd need pins in there and all sorts. I went to a few physio sessions and then got a job elsewhere in the country so just kept up the exercises and never really went back (had little choice, I was so broke and it was a good job). Last year I was working at a summer job in a pub and the awning for the beer garden fell on the shoulder and I was back in A&E which set me back again. Now it seems to be ok, I felt a little twinge benching the other day but all in all it's been ok. Touch wood it doesn't come back. Hope yours passes again, like you say mate it's demoralising. We spend so long cooking and training, reading and obsessing about this sport and it does your nut when something like this holds you back!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Kennyken said:


> What if carbs are taken with every meal throughout the day. Would the results be noticeable compared to just pre and post work out carbs. Say for a beginner?


results?? i am not sure i follow, if you mean your recover would be noticeable well of course you would still recover if you had carbs with every meal but the recovery would be better if you used an intra shake.....

the point of the study i posted was to show that there is some truth in carb timing, for example you can increase your recovery from a workout by making sure you have carbs pre/post workout there is another study that goes further to intra workout as well.....

lets say you are on a cut and want to reduce carbs then reduce them from the meals furthest away from your training first thus not affecting recovery from a workout although the calories will be lower.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Tasty said:


> If I'm honest mate I've been very lucky. They told me at the time I might never get my arm above shoulder-height and I'd need pins in there and all sorts. I went to a few physio sessions and then got a job elsewhere in the country so just kept up the exercises and never really went back (had little choice, I was so broke and it was a good job). Last year I was working at a summer job in a pub and the awning for the beer garden fell on the shoulder and I was back in A&E which set me back again. Now it seems to be ok, I felt a little twinge benching the other day but all in all it's been ok. Touch wood it doesn't come back. Hope yours passes again, like you say mate it's demoralising. We spend so long cooking and training, reading and obsessing about this sport and it does your nut when something like this holds you back!


Mine just went on and on, during which time I stopped going to the gym because really a shoulder injury affects most of the upper body. It's such a complex joint as the chiropractor explained so it's no wonder they are so commonly injured.

I think my A/C tear came from benching on the smith. I usually trained alone so I could go to failure and just rack it, but what I've learned since is that it forces you to lift in an unnatural ROM which must have put extra strain on my A/C joint.

Sounds like you have been lucky as you say, except for that awning at least! Mine I have been told is due to an imbalance with my front being dominant, so I imagine it pulls the ligament forwards too much which causes inflammation. I do scapular retractions and pullovers to try to correct it, but if I sleep on that side it flares up again. Seems like it will always be there to some extent.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Mine just went on and on, during which time I stopped going to the gym because really a shoulder injury affects most of the upper body. It's such a complex joint as the chiropractor explained so it's no wonder they are so commonly injured.
> 
> I think my A/C tear came from benching on the smith. I usually trained alone so I could go to failure and just rack it, but what I've learned since is that it forces you to lift in an unnatural ROM which must have put extra strain on my A/C joint.
> 
> Sounds like you have been lucky as you say, except for that awning at least! Mine I have been told is due to an imbalance with my front being dominant, so I imagine it pulls the ligament forwards too much which causes inflammation. I do scapular retractions and pullovers to try to correct it, but if I sleep on that side it flares up again. Seems like it will always be there to some extent.


Sorry to hear that mate, hopefully over time you can correct the imbalance and it might improve. Mine kept me out of the gym for a long long time. Sadly from about when my avatar on here was taken, I lost a lot of size (and got fatter) and only recently has my training been the same. Like I said though I rested it for months and months really, tried to go back a few times but as you say your entire upper body is affected by it. I also found it extremely uncomfortable to squat (resting my hand on it hurt let alone a bar with my arm twisted up and around it). I'm hoping that it holds out for this journal. I'm considering building my strength for the next few weeks and then switched to a more hypertrophy focused training regime. I don't like lifting light but I've got my whole life to get stronger again and I don't want to push that step too far one day and throw it out all over again.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Diet has been a little off the boil last two days - which has been great in a way, because the bloat subsided and I can see that I'm a little leaner, which is nice! Eating so much food was making me look huge so it was nice to see I'm not a whale underneath. Not in the gym today, still waiting for the taft to heal plus I'm so behind with work I need to get that done. I'll be back in training chest tomorrow, hopefully ready to add some weight to that bar and push on.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Extra update: I think things are starting to happen, as my sex drive today has gone through the roof. When I say through the roof I mean smashed the roof, into the atmosphere, past the planets and into the universe. This has happened the day AFTER I get back from visiting my girlfriend. Probably for the best as she isn't fond of me in my prowling sex beast mode.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok so back in the gym today for chest & shoulders. Strength is on the up - only slowly but it's still early days. I'm starting to look better and my endurance has gone up a little so I added in a little extra pump work at the end.

Bench:

2 x 5 @ 75kg

1 @ 80kg

1 x 4 @ 75kg

1 x 5 @ 70kg

A bit up and down but wanted to see if I could get the 80kg... Form wasn't great for that but it was nice to put a bit more weight on the bar.

OHP

5x5 @ 50kg - Not pushing this too hard yet, don't want to force an injury but this felt a lot lighter today. Will go up a notch next week.

DB Incline Press

Biggest improvement 5x5 @ 25kgs per side - overall 10kgs more than last week, no issues with shoulder either which was nice.

Side DB raises

3 x 8 @ 15kg per side (up from 10kg)

DB Flys

2 x 10 @ 15kg per side

2 x 10 @ 10kg per side but much slower and more controlled

Then threw in some front delt work and a few more light flys for pump.

Not the hugest improvement, but an improvement. Couldn't probably ask for more in the space of a week


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## danefox (Oct 18, 2013)

ba baracuss said:


> Mine just went on and on, during which time I stopped going to the gym because really a shoulder injury affects most of the upper body. It's such a complex joint as the chiropractor explained so it's no wonder they are so commonly injured.
> 
> I think my A/C tear came from benching on the smith. I usually trained alone so I could go to failure and just rack it, but what I've learned since is that it forces you to lift in an unnatural ROM which must have put extra strain on my A/C joint.
> 
> ...


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Seems a common injury this ACL business!

An update on the Tren sides - I've been getting some and not others. I feel breathless a lot more - starting to notice this today more than ever. My BP is higher and I can feel it when I tie my shoes etc... Sides I haven't had - night sweats (my room is quite cold though), rage, paranoia. I will say that I used tren once before (wasn't ready) and experienced all of these. I have to say that I can't be sure whether it's due to the fact that a) I'm running low test and higher tren or B) the fact that I'm running tren ED rather than EOD. Either way, if I run tren again I will certainly use this method as it's been easy to control thus far - even been sleeping a lot better. I know there is still time and it hasn't been in my system long, touch wood it stays like this. So far, so good. Just waiting for the great sides i.e. being huge and strong and not as fat.

Oh and also - no update on the beard, bought a trimmer the other day and it 'trimmed' more than I hoped for so I'm back to the last photo however I am STILL ALCOHOL FREE! Been hard at times but overall so worth it, will definitely cut down on my drinking when the month is done. A few nights out are on the cards though. One or two.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Felt crappy today, coming down with something possibly - had a banging headache, loss of appetite etc. Not going to instantly point at the juice, as I think some people do, it could be the fact I've had a lot on recently and weather's changed and people are generally ill blah blah. Hoping to feel a bit better tomorrow! Got some work done which is good, will continue to push on. Still not had a drink and the beard is making a comeback!


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Beginning to make some progress then mate. Hope you don't come down with anything - it's just what you don't need.

If you stick with the beard you will find a level on the trimmer that you like and stick to it.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Beginning to make some progress then mate. Hope you don't come down with anything - it's just what you don't need.
> 
> If you stick with the beard you will find a level on the trimmer that you like and stick to it.


I'll power through mate, thank you!  Yeah progress has started and hopefully it'll continue. Haha thanks for the beard advice, I'm gonna stick with it!


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

If you have any glutamine it's good for the immune system. I also take zinc daily and it has reduced the amount of colds I get a great deal.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> If you have any glutamine it's good for the immune system. I also take zinc daily and it has reduced the amount of colds I get a great deal.


I haven't got any but I might get some as I'm looking into intra-workout shakes... I currently take 1-2g of Vit C a day (depending on whether I remember to take them). Feeling a bit better today so hopefully it won't get worse!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok so back in the gym today - moved legs to tomorrow and swapped for back, as I have a 9am meeting tomorrow I need to cycle to and there is little chance of me even crawling there if I squat today. NOT SKIPPING LEG DAY, moving it. Moving. Not skipping.

Back was good today, lifts all gone up. Would help if the stack was labelled so I knew what I was lifting. Looking forward to getting my strength back here so I can move onto pull ups and away from the lat pull down.

Pull down

1 x 5 @ 9 plates/9th setting

2 x 5 @ 10

1 x 5 @ 11

2 x 5 @ 10 - went a set over, but why the hell not

DB Rows

3 x 8 @ 27.5kgs per side

Reverse flyes

4 x 10 - various weights

and then some trap work, raises etc and then some triceps. Feel good today, can't wait to keep pushing those weights up! I know the weight isn't much now, but all the injuries all seem quiet so far, slow and steady will get me back.

Still struggling with digestion but ordered some Solgar tabs on the advice of @ewen and @Mingster hopefully they arrive soon and sort the problem, if not I'll go see the quacks.


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Subbed


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Greshie said:


> Subbed


Thanks Greshie


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Who's ya Daddy?????.......................in Son!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> Who's ya Daddy?????.......................in Son!


Cheers big man! Hopefully I can follow in your footsteps and start moving some big weights about!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Morning update - Don't usually update first thing but got a few things to say. Woke up this morning and looked like a different man from last week - I moved all my carbs to earlier in the day and as such woke up today with little to no bloat (I also ate sweet potato instead of rice or pasta for my carbs so that might be a contributor) anyway long story short I look a damn sight leaner than I did and a damn sight bigger. I know at this stage it'll be muscle memory more than anything, but it's nice to look better. 9am meeting was cancelled but I've got an essay in for 11am tomorrow so I might train tomorrow lunch time instead, that said I might need to get out of this room for a break later and I do fancy hitting some squats. All in all - happy Friday!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Legs, BOOM!

Enjoyed that today, glad I took the time to do it. Hit a little milestone... not the most impressive but it's one of those magic numbers we all love:

Squat

1 x 5 @ 70kg (wow this feels super light)

1 x 5 @ 80kg (nothing doing)

3 x 5 @ 100kg - much better!

I've squatted more before but it's nice, especially as it's only my second squatting session in over a year. Happy with this!

Leg Press

3 x8 @ 120kg

Then some extensions, ham curls, calf stuff  didn't do abs as the gym is tiny and some old Doris was doing some odd yoga stuff and farting away so I made a swift exit. Next stop, 100kg on the bench and then we're getting somewhere...


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Good squatting there for only your second time in twelve months!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Greshie said:


> Good squatting there for only your second time in twelve months!


Thanks mate! Hopefully it'll all keep going up and up


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

RIGHT

Chest today, on the up and up again:

Bench

1 x 5 @ 70kg

1 x 5 @ 85kg

1 @ 85kg

1 @ 90kg

1 @ 90kg (split these up as I did rest between each one)

1 x 5 @ 85kg

1 x 5 @ 80kg

Next chest session I might go for a 1RM and try for 100kg, reckon I can hit it - would be another nice little milestone on the road to recovery!

OHP

Considering splitting up shoulders and chest as I'm not really progressing with this, but then the frequency of my workouts will suffers (hitting everything every 4 days now) so not sure. Same time I don't want to push my shoulder too hard and pop it, any advice would be appreciated!

1 x 5 @ 65kg

3 @ 65kg

3 x 5 @ 55kg

DB Incline Press

3 x 8 @ 25kg per side

Side Raises

3 x 8 @ 15kg per side

Flyes

2 x 10 @ 15kg ps

2 x 10 @ 10kg ps

then some bicep stuff, few sets of 21s and hanging hammer curls

Might stray from the diet tonight and order a curry or something, can't face any more of what I've got in the fridge! Anyways it's nice to be moving forward. By the end of the 8 weeks I'd like to be repping 120kg on the bench, even just for a few. I know it's a jump but I reckon I can get there (even if there's nothing holding my shoulder together!).

Enjoy your weekend folks!


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Can't give any advice on the shoulder, but it's good to have a break from your diet every now and again, otherwise everything becomes monotonous


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Greshie said:


> Can't give any advice on the shoulder, but it's good to have a break from your diet every now and again, otherwise everything becomes monotonous


I reckon I'll nail a curry tonight, keema naan, the works


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok some updates! Diet yesterday went out the window and today hasn't been great - missed a few meals that I may catch up but I got stuck out so ce la vie. It is DEFINITELY the protein shakes making me bloated and sick, maybe I'm a little lactose intolerant? Not sure what to do as I can't hit my targets without shakes really. BEARD DISASTER, got my hair cut today and the idiot shaved a bit of my beard off. Will inspect it more when I get home, hopefully I can salvage it. Bought a tracksuit for the gym from Sports Direct for £16! Very happy about this, erm. Training back later on, hopefully some improvements are on the cards.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Have you tried digestive enzymes with your shakes? Do you mix with milk or water?

Link to tracksuit?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Have you tried digestive enzymes with your shakes? Do you mix with milk or water?
> 
> Link to tracksuit?


Mix with water mate. Started taking solgar which I think is helping, but I'm still really uncomfortable a lot of the day, which really affects my appetite!

No link, bought in store. It's just a dark blue Slazenger job, I'll post up a pic!


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> Ok some updates! Diet yesterday went out the window and today hasn't been great - missed a few meals that I may catch up but I got stuck out so ce la vie. It is DEFINITELY the protein shakes making me bloated and sick, maybe I'm a little lactose intolerant? Not sure what to do as I can't hit my targets without shakes really. BEARD DISASTER, got my hair cut today and the idiot shaved a bit of my beard off. Will inspect it more when I get home, hopefully I can salvage it. Bought a tracksuit for the gym from Sports Direct for £16! Very happy about this, erm. Training back later on, hopefully some improvements are on the cards.


Hi Son!

Go to the chemist and buy some lactaid....it deals with lactose intolerances ,also has your shake MCT in it,well known for digestive problems!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> Hi Son!
> 
> Go to the chemist and buy some lactaid....it deals with lactose intolerances ,also has your shake MCT in it,well known for digestive problems!


I'll check on the MCT - I'll find some lactaid thanks for the advice


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Trained m back today

Lat pull down (still down know what the weights are)

1 x 5 @ 10 plates/settings

1 x 5 @ 12

2 @ 12

3 x 5 @ 11

DB Row

3 x 8 @ 30kg per side

Reverse flyes, upright rows, inverted rows, some tricep stuff


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Weird session today, Tren really took over and I was just so ****ing angry the whole time. Trained chest, didn't really progress much, one too many people in the gym and I was visibly fuming so I left for 5 mins to cool down, one of my mates walked past and said something and I spent the next 20 mins working out whether he was trying to slag me off and planning to knock him out (he wasn't, it was just me being a knob). Basically I was just being a psychopath. Go tren. Haha.

Bench

1 x 5 @ 80kg

1 x 2 @ 90kg

1 @ 90kg

1 @ 87.5kg

2 x 5 @ 85kg

then did a set @ 70kg with strict form as some of these were ego lifts

Incline DB press

3 x 8 @ 25kg per side

OHP

5 x 5 @ 60kg

Side raises

4 x 10 @ 15kg ps

Flyes

4 x 10 @ 15kg ps

Then a load of bicep stuff. Not too bad written down I suppose, going to try and train earlier tomorrow so I'm alone.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Oh some other stuff. Lost the beard :sad: the barber butchered it yesterday and it looked a bit stupid and in my rage shaved the whole thing off. On a plus though I still haven't had a drink  so it's not all bad.


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Tasty said:


> Oh some other stuff. Lost the beard :sad: the barber butchered it yesterday and it looked a bit stupid and in my rage shaved the whole thing off. On a plus though I still haven't had a drink  so it's not all bad.


Perhaps the Barber was trying to tell you something!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Greshie said:


> Perhaps the Barber was trying to tell you something!


That he didn't like my beard? It was a beautiful beard :sad: why would you say these thing to me Greshie?


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Tasty said:


> That he didn't like my beard? It was a beautiful beard :sad: why would you say these thing to me Greshie?


Should go round and kick his door in ;-)


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> Should go round and kick his door in ;-)


Haha I'm a calmer man today. Haven't jabbed yet though...

Should be training legs today but might push training to tomorrow, got a lot of work to be doing.


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Tasty said:


> Haha I'm a calmer man today. Haven't jabbed yet though...
> 
> Should be training legs today but might push training to tomorrow, got a lot of work to be doing.


You wanna hear what his being saying behind your back ;-)


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> You wanna hear what his being saying behind your back ;-)


GRESHIE I WILL COME TO SCOTLAND AND KILL YOU!


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> Oh some other stuff. Lost the beard :sad: the barber butchered it yesterday and it looked a bit stupid and in my rage shaved the whole thing off. On a plus though I still haven't had a drink  so it's not all bad.


That will fook your strength,,,,,no beard... mg:


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> That will fook your strength,,,,,no beard... mg:


I'm 99% sure that's what ****ed up my lifts yesterday! All my power was in that ****er. I do look about 5 years younger now though.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> I'm 99% sure that's what ****ed up my lifts yesterday! All my power was in that ****er. I do look about 5 years younger now though.


Poor Samson! :lol:


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Why why why Delila :sad:


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> Why why why Delila :sad:


As i cook a lot is that more Delia?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> As i cook a lot is that more Delia?


I prefer Nigella for her, erm, dessert :wacko:


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> I prefer Nigella for her, erm, dessert :wacko:


Not to be sniffed at imho


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> Not to be sniffed at imho


Haha it's the real icing on the cake.


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Tasty said:


> That he didn't like my beard? It was a beautiful beard :sad: why would you say these thing to me Greshie?


Ah beauty is in the eye of the beholder..................



Kennyken said:


> You wanna hear what his being saying behind your back ;-)


Oi you! stop stirring .....



Tasty said:


> GRESHIE I WILL COME TO SCOTLAND AND KILL YOU!


oh err misses :tongue:



Tasty said:


> I'm 99% sure that's what ****ed up my lifts yesterday! All my power was in that ****er. I do look about 5 years younger now though.


Baby Face


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Now then now then now then (no paedo)

I DID NOT TRAIN MY LEGS TODAY. No, I did not. Got **** to do tomorrow that involves much walking and carrying, going to train them tomorrow night / Saturday wile I'm back home. Remember last time I said I'd do it? I did it, so stop doubting me.

Back - up and up!

Pull down (mix of wide grip, super-wide grip and not-quite-as-wide-but-still-pretty-wide grip)

1 x 5 @ 11 plates / settings

3 x 5 @ 12

1 x 3 @ 13

1 x 5 @ 12

DB Row

3 x 8 @ 32.5kg

then did upright rows, shrugs, triceps, reverse flyes, more triceps, close grip pull downs - basically I had a pre-workout today and could have been in there forever.

Was much better today as I was alone in the gym, nobody came close to death except me.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I am off home this weekend! Will try and fit a session in but to be honest, a few days off might do me some good. I think I'm on the threshold of the real magic because I'm starting to see changes a bit more. Not seen my bird for two weeks so hopefully 1) she notices my gains 2) I can work off some of this sex drive. Yes noticing my gains is more important.

Thinking about my cycle - I'm here for 8 weeks, then home for 6, then here for 8. Is there any point me coming off for 6 weeks, doing a PCT then going back on for 8 - or am I worth just dropping the tren and mast for 6 weeks, maintaining what I get from the cycle and then bringing it back for the last 8 weeks with a cut? Advice would be appreciated.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> I am off home this weekend! Will try and fit a session in but to be honest, a few days off might do me some good. I think I'm on the threshold of the real magic because I'm starting to see changes a bit more. Not seen my bird for two weeks so hopefully 1) she notices my gains 2) I can work off some of this sex drive. Yes noticing my gains is more important.
> 
> Thinking about my cycle - I'm here for 8 weeks, then home for 6, then here for 8. Is there any point me coming off for 6 weeks, doing a PCT then going back on for 8 - or am I worth just dropping the tren and mast for 6 weeks, maintaining what I get from the cycle and then bringing it back for the last 8 weeks with a cut? Advice would be appreciated.


250mg test/wk for the 6 weeks mate,as you i think,are on long esters ,you will never time it right coming off etc,should have used all short esters...planning easy


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> 250mg test/wk for the 6 weeks mate,as you i think,are on long esters ,you will never time it right coming off etc,should have used all short esters...planning easy


I am using short mate just thinking is it worth coming off for 6 weeks? I suppose I'll only have been on for 8!


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> I am using short mate just thinking is it worth coming off for 6 weeks? I suppose I'll only have been on for 8!


Come cold,no taper,then hit HCG1500 every 3 days ,four times ,then leave it a week and do one more lot of 1500,it should be fine,no loss


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> Come cold,no taper,then hit HCG1500 every 3 days ,four times ,then leave it a week and do one more lot of 1500,it should be fine,no loss


Ok interesting. No PCT meds?


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> Ok interesting. No PCT meds?


Keep nolveready but,i recon no need for 8 weeks mate


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Right, not in a good way today. Been hit with a severe case of man-flu which is pants as I'm just starting to make progress and I've got so much work to do :sad: as such my diet is all over the place and I've had to stay home instead of go back to uni (I'll die on a train) so I'm having to move my jabs around, not too big a problem but I need the routine really. Hopefully it doesn't last too long, either way I have to go back tomorrow.


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Tasty said:


> Right, not in a good way today. Been hit with a severe case of man-flu which is pants as I'm just starting to make progress and I've got so much work to do :sad: as such my diet is all over the place and I've had to stay home instead of go back to uni (I'll die on a train) so I'm having to move my jabs around, not too big a problem but I need the routine really. Hopefully it doesn't last too long, either way I have to go back tomorrow.


 well rest up today and hopefully you'll feel a great deal better soon, these things are part and parcel unfortunately


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Greshie said:


> well rest up today and hopefully you'll feel a great deal better soon, these things are part and parcel unfortunately


 My beard was protecting me! It's all your fault Gresh (somehow)!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok, I have no stepped foot in a gym for over a week. My illness ramped up FAST and I've had some serious flu, weak as a kitten, struggling to walk to the bathroom levels off illness. I missed a few days of jabs too, which isn't a good thing. I'm back on the jabs though and hoping to return to the diet and training within the next few days.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Hope your beard is progressing since the 'accident'...


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Mingster said:


> Hope your beard is progressing since the 'accident'...


Haha thanks mate. Yeah the beard is back on track BUT with Valentines day looming it'll have to go again if I want some loving. Given I've booked a posh hotel and bought lingerie for her I think I definitely need some.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Tasty said:


> Haha thanks mate. Yeah the beard is back on track BUT with Valentines day looming it'll have to go again if I want some loving. Given I've booked a posh hotel and bought lingerie for her I think I definitely need some.


As long as he leaves the beard alone this time. I'll be taking the missus to the finest Viking meadhouse for Valentines. No beard - no entry...Not for the missus obviously


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Mingster said:


> As long as he leaves the beard alone this time. I'll be taking the missus to the finest Viking meadhouse for Valentines. No beard - no entry...Not for the missus obviously


Haha the kind of establishment that only allows in bearded ladies is very niche!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I AM STILL SICK! :sad: it's been a week now - not stepped into a gym for over a week, feel like I'm shrinking and dying and shrinking some more. Getting back in there tomorrow, no matter what.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tasty said:


> My beard was protecting me! It's all your fault Gresh (somehow)!


Told you

Listen to your Father ONCE IN A WHILE,BLOODY YOUTH!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> Told you
> 
> Listen to your Father ONCE IN A WHILE,BLOODY YOUTH!


 :mellow: Sorry.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I WENT BACK TO THE GYM

YEARGHGHGH GET SOME etc

Half loved it, half wish I was dead BUT didn't do too badly. Was expecting my strength to have dipped like a diplodocus dipped in garlic dip on a big dipper, but it hasn't toooo much.

Bench

1 x 5 @ 70kg (this is easy)

1 x 5 @ 80kg (this is still easy)

1 x 3 @ 90kg

1 x 3 @ 90kg

1 x 5 @ 80kg

Not bad considering I've had flu for a week and survived on take away and biscuits.

Did OHP and a few other bits, didn't do all the exercises I usually do as I felt like I might pass out, but all in all, I'm back in the game!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok trained back today, not going to go into the nitty gritty of all the workout but I pulled more than I have in any other session - I think we can safely say the tren is working its magic if a week off with flu isn't even denting my lifts any great amount.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Any change in body fat mate?


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## deeconfrost (Dec 15, 2010)

So how is the tren treating you??


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> Any change in body fat mate?


Yes mate it's been steadily going down. I don't notice it day to day though as I'm so ****ing bloated 90% of the time. When I first wake up I can notice it though, which is nice. Going to come off in a few weeks - maybe cruise in my 6 weeks off uni, maybe just come clean off - then do a cutting cycle. Same meds again (maybe some GH thrown in) but with fasted cardio, PWO cardio, clen, t3 and every few days open the windows and throw in a DNP tab (I've got a few rattling around somewhere).


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

deeconfrost said:


> So how is the tren treating you??


Yeah ok mate. I get wound up from time to time, sleep some nights is a bit messed up but overall it's ok. Nothing like the other time I did it, I'm handling it so much better - no sure if that's down to ED jabbing keeping my levels even or lowering the test or a bit of both!


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## deeconfrost (Dec 15, 2010)

What was the other time you did??


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## deeconfrost (Dec 15, 2010)

Tasty said:


> Yeah ok mate. I get wound up from time to time, sleep some nights is a bit messed up but overall it's ok. Nothing like the other time I did it, I'm handling it so much better - no sure if that's down to ED jabbing keeping my levels even or lowering the test or a bit of both!


Trial and error etc?! Doing test and tren, 250 test and 150 tren


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

deeconfrost said:


> What was the other time you did??





deeconfrost said:


> Trial and error etc?! Doing test and tren, 250 test and 150 tren


Few years ago when I was young and silly think I did 500mg test 300 tren or something,

MWF jabs, really messed my head up something rotten!


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## deeconfrost (Dec 15, 2010)

Tasty said:


> Few years ago when I was young and silly think I did 500mg test 300 tren or something,
> 
> MWF jabs, really messed my head up something rotten!


Strength is up yeah?? How soon it kick in for you


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

deeconfrost said:


> Strength is up yeah?? How soon it kick in for you


Yeah strength is up, started noticing more of a difference week 3 but then had flu for a week so I'm hoping these next few will yield some big changes mate.


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## deeconfrost (Dec 15, 2010)

Good luck pal


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Sorry I've not been big on the updates, spent the weekend romancing my lady in a posh hotel room. Actually got to a point where even on tren, I could go again. For like half hour and a sandwich then I was back at it. Brilliant weekend! Had work to catch up on today so back in the gym tomorrow.

Some problems - been having issues with my elbows recently, worried this might be because I'm adding weight and my tendons aren't catching up? Also I get breathless so easily it's ridiculous, it's making life quite hard. Looking forward to the 6 weeks off before I cut.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Pics?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> Pics?


I've got loads, none for you animals though.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Tasty said:


> I've got loads, none for you animals though.


I'm not an animal. I like quiet walks on the beach too


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Kennyken said:


> I'm not an animal. I like quiet walks on the beach too


Hand in hand while some Michael Buble plays?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok so I know I'm not going at posting pics - I kinda want to put some up at the end and then on my cutting cycle, but I took some today that show some progress on my back. Not bad for 4-5 weeks with a week off for flu! 



















Will try and get the mrs to take some better ones of me soon.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Argh just had a dream that I was having a threesome with my bird and my housemate who's a model and it was so real, I've just woken up and I'm gutted, haha! Bloody tren.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

No training today, got so much uni work to do - back in for chest tomorrow, gonna push for that fabled 100k, even one dodgy rep will make me feel better.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Good man pics will help you track this!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

biglbs said:


> Good man pics will help you track this!


Cheers fella!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

BOOM *RELOAD* BOOM!

Today I wrote and submitted a 3,000 word essay and I BENCHED 100kg - the form would have got me thrown out of a comp, but **** it I can build on it. I know to some out there it will seem like sod all but considering at one point the weren't sure if I'd ever have mobility in my shoulder again, benching 100kg is a big step. Onwards and upwards from here 

Bench

5 x 80kg

1 x 90kg

1 x 100kg

1 x 100kg (failed)

3 x 90kg

5 x 80kg

OHP

5 x 5 @ 60kg

Incline DB Press

3 x 8/10 @ 25kg per side

Side raises

4 x 10 @ 15kg per db

Flyes

4 x 10 @ 15kg per db

Bicep stuff 

I'm getting there.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Definite progress in those pics mate.

Congrats on the bench too :thumbup1:


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Definite progress in those pics mate.
> 
> Congrats on the bench too :thumbup1:


Cheers mate  yeah I can see progress, good for such a short time frame. Sure it'll all look better when I cut too.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

How is the beard doing? Any outrageous attacks on it by barbers lately?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Shaved it all off for the bird at valentines, this is where I'm back to! Been drinking once a week max, sometimes not even that - drank 3 times maybe this year?


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

So you have to shave it off whenever you see your bird? 

Nice trap development. Must help with the A/C joint situation.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> So you have to shave it off whenever you see your bird?
> 
> Nice trap development. Must help with the A/C joint situation.


Haha pretty much, plus I've realised I haven't got the dedication. Basically between that photo and full beard is this straggly stage I can't deal with. I look like a hobo and I shave it off. I'm too weak.

Thanks mate, I suppose it must do actually. I've always been reasonably blessed in terms of lats - might be part of the reason it healed well, sort of holding it all together. You can see in that photo that my collar bone on the left side protrudes more where it's not attached at the end :sad:


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Tasty said:


> Haha pretty much, plus I've realised I haven't got the dedication. Basically between that photo and full beard is this straggly stage I can't deal with. I look like a hobo and I shave it off. I'm too weak.
> 
> Thanks mate, I suppose it must do actually. I've always been reasonably blessed in terms of lats - might be part of the reason it healed well, sort of holding it all together. You can see in that photo that my collar bone on the left side protrudes more where it's not attached at the end :sad:


I had a full beard phase but was the same - too scruffy and itchy. Only started because of shaving rash. Used to use a beard trimmer with no grader, then went onto a goatee type thing.

I only noticed the collar bone when you said. I wouldn't worry.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> I had a full beard phase but was the same - too scruffy and itchy. Only started because of shaving rash. Used to use a beard trimmer with no grader, then went onto a goatee type thing.
> 
> I only noticed the collar bone when you said. I wouldn't worry.


Yeah the itching is a pain in the backside! Cheers mate, good to know.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Sorry for the lack of updates, I'm in the business-end of this term and I've been mad busy, only hitting the gym 2-3 times a week and my diet is all over the place, thank god for Mutant Mass to bring my cals up when I haven't got time to cook! After this week things will be a lot easier work-wise, I've got my food all ordered in and I can hit the gym more. Just had to make the decision and my education is worth more than a few extra lbs in the gym!


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