# Is this Kind of Physique(Mid section mainly) Naturally possible?(With Picture)



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

*As the thread title says?*​
Yes 833.33%No1666.67%


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Hello Folks,

As the title says is this kind of physique (more concerned with mid section) possible naturally in your views and if not what should be the minimum dosages and compounds that can be used to get the Mid section like this?

Sorry couldn't post the full picture.

TIA


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

The conditioning doesn't look natural. Looks too dry an grainy.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

I understand, is it possible naturally in your view?. or a low test dosage can give this kind of look provided diet and cardio are in check?



Yes said:


> The conditioning doesn't look natural. Look stood dry an grainy.


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I understand, is it possible naturally in your view?. or a low test dosage can give this kind of look provided diet and cardio are in check?


Well if you just want abs then diet down. If you want the dry and grainy look then use heavy androgens.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks mate for an opinion:thumbup1:



Yes said:


> Well if you just want abs then diet down. If you want the dry and grainy look then use heavy androgens.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Anyone?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Looks like tren to me.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

inb4 benefit of the doubters

not natty... case dismissed


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Dry and grainy does not mean AAS use -

This is a tested drug free BB


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Dry and grainy does not mean AAS use -
> 
> This is a tested drug free BB
> 
> View attachment 171257


How long has he been natty for?

Ten minutes? ha


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> How long has he been natty for?
> 
> Ten minutes? ha


There will always be doubters, haters, call em what you will.

Are you saying there aren't any natural pro BB's, that are actually natty? IF you compare the size of this guy to the likes of simeon panda, mike ohearn, who also claim natty, then you would see the difference.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> There will always be doubters, haters, call em what you will.
> 
> Are you saying there aren't any natural pro BB's, that are actually natty? IF you compare the size of this guy to the likes of simeon panda, mike ohearn, who also claim natty, then you would see the difference.


honestly i was just joking.

But i honestly don't know what to think anymore, when i first started training i believed that the rock, and a few other celebrities would never touch drugs, that only idiots would do gear and that benching 60kg was something to strive towards.

Now my eyes are more open and somehow my perception is even murkier.

I think the only person that knows if they are natty, is that person.

It's always possible to get round all other tests.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> honestly i was just joking.
> 
> But i honestly don't know what to think anymore, when i first started training i believed that the rock, and a few other celebrities would never touch drugs, that only idiots would do gear and that benching 60kg was something to strive towards.
> 
> ...


How do you get round tests then, please elaborate...?

Yeah there are a lot more people on AAS than you first thought, so what, doesn't mean that there isn't such a thing as a natural pro BB.

The guy in the pic is at world level, not a typical regional competitor.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> How do you get round tests then, please elaborate...?
> 
> Yeah there are a lot more people on AAS than you first thought, so what, doesn't mean that there isn't such a thing as a natural pro BB.
> 
> The guy in the pic is at world level, not a typical regional competitor.


short half life, or juice for years and then go natty.

Lie detectors can be passed.

I'm confident there are lots of nattys in pro BB, but i think they are few and far between.

As i said no one REALLY know's the truth, except for the athletes.


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## darrylj92 (Apr 7, 2015)

it looks to dry and almost 3D to be completely natural .. I achieved something very similar last year at the ukbff Scottish using clen T3 and T5 ... if theres no AAS or stimulants aiding him then who ever prepped him deserves to be knighted


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> short half life, or juice for years and then go natty.
> 
> Lie detectors can be passed.
> 
> ...


So many who jump on AAS, after years of not being able to change their body, then make blanket statements that everyone else with muscle, especailly if that look looks unachievable, must be on gear.

Detection time for tren ace is 5 months., Nandrolone Decanoate is 18 months. Nothing to do with half life.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

That pic looks like it's had some work done it


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> So many who jump on AAS, after years of not being able to change their body, then make blanket statements that everyone else with muscle, especailly if that look looks unachievable, must be on gear.
> 
> Detection time for tren ace is 5 months., Nandrolone Decanoate is 18 months. Nothing to do with half life.


Your clearly misunderstanding me here....

If you think that every person on that natty stage is and always has been natty, your wrong in my optinion.

My point is i don't know who is and who isn't because everyone reacts differently to training and drugs.

No one really knows.


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## seandog69 (Mar 8, 2013)

Don't forget the major factor to determine that look and that's genetics


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> How long has he been natty for?
> 
> Ten minutes? ha


No 11 minutes, if that is natty, I am a saint.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> Your clearly misunderstanding me here....
> 
> If you think that every person on that natty stage is and always has been natty, your wrong in my optinion.
> 
> ...


No I'm understanding dw lol. Just making a point.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jsing2010 said:


> No 11 minutes, if that is natty, I am a saint.


Another clueless D1ckhead. Why do think so? Because you could never achieve anything close to this even on AAS?


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## sh4n3 (May 26, 2013)

That's not natural no way


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Impossible or close to impossible natural IMO.

Even if it was possible, it would be a comically difficult lifestyle to maintain to hold on to this look without AAS.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

SK50 said:


> Impossible or close to impossible natural IMO.
> 
> Even if it was possible, it would be a comically difficult lifestyle to maintain to hold on to this look without AAS.


So even at world level that look is impossible? Who said anything about holding that look? He preps for a show like every other BB, and gains quite a bit of fat off season.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

sh4n3 said:


> That's not natural no way


Show me what you can achieve naturally, post a pic...Assuming you didn't jump straight on gear.


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Another clueless D1ckhead. Why do think so? Because you could never achieve anything close to this even on AAS?


Name calling always makes your point right! I don't need to justify myself to you, I don't think it's natural and most people that know a little something will tend to agree with me. Have a good day believing WWE is real brah.


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## benny_boy555 (Feb 2, 2015)

sh4n3 said:


> That's not natural no way


agree 100%. not that anyone gives a fu*k about my newbie opinion! lol


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

In my opinion and it is MY opinion anybody and everybody in the fitness industry who are doing well and are known are juicing. And the pics too dry and grainy to be natty


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jsing2010 said:


> Name calling always makes your point right! I don't need to justify myself to you, I don't think it's natural and most people that know a little something will tend to agree with me. Have a good day believing WWE is real brah.


I know more than little. It's usually the guys who only know very little to nothing, that come to this conclusion all the time. Their physique usually shows this.

What's not real about WWE?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jsing2010 said:


> Name calling always makes your point right! I don't need to justify myself to you, I don't think it's natural and most people that know a little something will tend to agree with me. Have a good day believing WWE is real brah.


I know more than little. It's usually the guys who only know very little to nothing, that come to this conclusion all the time. Their physique usually shows this.

What's not real about WWE?


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I know more than little. It's usually the guys who only know very little to nothing, that come to this conclusion all the time. Their physique usually shows this.
> 
> What's not real about WWE?


I am going to assume that everyone that does not agree with you does not have the force?

If you have to ask then I can't tell you, sorry! Do you also believe in unicorns and that Kim Jong Un does not have an ar$e hole?


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> So even at world level that look is impossible? Who said anything about holding that look? He preps for a show like every other BB, and gains quite a bit of fat off season.


We each have our own opinion.

Yes, if I was to bet money, I would choose 'impossible'.

We had cameras before we had steroids, and I have never seen anyone look this before 1960s...


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

SK50 said:


> We each have our own opinion.
> 
> Yes, if I was to bet money, I would choose 'impossible'.
> 
> We had cameras before we had steroids, and I have never seen anyone look this before 1960s...


^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jsing2010 said:


> ^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^


What you couldn't articulate the words yourself lol.

Post a pic of yourself at your best, on gear off gear doesn't matter... I bet you look like $hit all day long.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

SK50 said:


> We each have our own opinion.
> 
> Yes, if I was to bet money, I would choose 'impossible'.
> 
> We had cameras before we had steroids, and I have never seen anyone look this before 1960s...


So you don't think the fitness industry has moved on a little since then lol?

If you think that is impossible then you clearly jumped on gear too soon.


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> What you couldn't articulate the words yourself lol.
> 
> Post a pic of yourself at your best, on gear off gear doesn't matter... I bet you look like $hit all day long.




took this just for you


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

Whats with all the defenciveness.... Wait your the guy in the pic! :,) aha


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jsing2010 said:


> View attachment 171263
> 
> 
> took this just for you


Probably not far off


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

little_johnson said:


> Whats with all the defenciveness.... Wait your the guy in the pic! :,) aha


No, I'm the guy in my avi lol.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> So you don't think the fitness industry has moved on a little since then lol?
> 
> If you think that is impossible then you clearly jumped on gear too soon.


Have heard stories of "natties" having sdrol in their bags at comps ffs lol

And the lie detectors are a right farce apparently


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

so why the defenciveness? People are gunna have opinions its each to there own who, theres no right and wrowrong so no point arguing the point, my opinion he aint natty nothing anyone will say, do, will change it.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> Have heard stories of "natties" having sdrol in their bags at comps ffs lol
> 
> And the lie detectors are a right farce apparently


Those stories smell like the stuff coming out of a bull's ass lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> Have heard stories of "natties" having sdrol in their bags at comps ffs lol
> 
> And the lie detectors are a right farce apparently


I am well aware there are falsely claimed natties, cannot stand them, but I also understand why they do it. But this mindset that everyone is juicing is too much.

Lie detectors can be passed with valium if need be.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> I am well aware there are falsely claimed natties, cannot stand them, but I also understand why they do it. But this mindset that everyone is juicing is too much.
> 
> Lie detectors can be passed with valium if need be.


It's what is blurring the lines of what people can expect to achieve tho


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Genetics play a very large factor in what one can achieve.

I fully believe there are gifted people out there who can look better natural that most assisted. Thats just life.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I am well aware there are falsely claimed natties, cannot stand them, but I also understand why they do it. But this mindset that everyone is juicing is too much.
> 
> Lie detectors can be passed with valium if need be.


This 100%


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

DC1 said:


> Genetics play a very large factor in what one can achieve.
> 
> I fully believe there are gifted people out there who can look better natural that most assisted. Thats just life.




Nuff said.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

little_johnson said:


> so why the defenciveness? People are gunna have opinions its each to there own who, theres no right and wrowrong so no point arguing the point, my opinion he aint natty nothing anyone will say, do, will change it.


So ALL WNBF athletes are juicing...

Some things aren't opinion based, just limited mindset, he is natural, it is not a matter of opinion. I don't expect many to have the same opinion cos their knowledge, training, diet, drive, determination, conviction is limited.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> It's what is blurring the lines of what people can expect to achieve tho


Yeah agreed. But as I said earlier, take a look at Simeon Panda and Mike Ohearn, they are much bigger than the guy I posted.

EDIT: To add to this, people shouldn't expect to achieve the same as some of these people, they just were not cut out for it. The work ethic along with consistency, is what fails a lot people. So many people train 5 days a week, but hardly any look good.


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

cant find a list of there pros etc so couldn't say in that aspect. I can underdtand that ive seen people go very far as naturals but i still think its too grainy and dry natty


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

little_johnson said:


> cant find a list of there pros etc so couldn't say in that aspect. I can underdtand that ive seen people go very far as naturals but i still think its too grainy and dry natty


That was my original point, you dont need AAS for dry grainy look. That is achieved by low bf.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Not natty


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Looks like he needs a good meal if you ask me


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

None of you fcukers even lift lol


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## sh4n3 (May 26, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Show me what you can achieve naturally, post a pic...Assuming you didn't jump straight on gear.


Look we all know there's no set rule of what's achievable naturally, but come on he's clearly using PED's and why wouldn't he be? its what he does, it's his job.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> None of you fcukers even lift lol


We're not asking if we look like we lift lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

sh4n3 said:


> Look we all know there's no set rule of what's achievable naturally, but come on he's clearly using PED's and why wouldn't he be? its what he does, it's his job.


Why is it clear? Cos you couldnt do it, or don't know anyone who could, doesnt mean it is not possible. So the whole line up at WNBF finals are ALL taking AAS?

It's not his job. Not many guys making a living as a BB.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> We're not asking if we look like we lift lol


Just making blanket statement lol


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Just making blanket statement lol


I'm offended lol.

Putting my stringers away now


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> I'm offended lol.
> 
> Putting my stringers away now


Up your AI, your estrogen must be creeping up lol


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Up your AI, your estrogen must be creeping up lol


Was nearly in tears singing Mariah Careys ' I want to know what love is' earlier so maybe you're right


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## sh4n3 (May 26, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Why is it clear? Cos you couldnt do it, or don't know anyone who could, doesnt mean it is not possible. So the whole line up at WNBF finals are ALL taking AAS?
> 
> It's not his job. Not many guys making a living as a BB.


Well that's a whole other conversation but for now I will agree That it's maybe possible but in my opinion (for what it's worth) he looks unnatural


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Seriously?. :confused1: ..There is something that i don't know then or i am doing it all wrong. I am natural, but the bitter truth is that all these years i have kept a check on my calories and cardio, but never reached even 50% of this guy's physique:cursing:. Moreover, if this kind of physique is attainable naturally, then why people who don't see themselves on stage take AAS?. Impatient and ignorant?



Dark sim said:


> Dry and grainy does not mean AAS use -
> 
> This is a tested drug free BB
> 
> View attachment 171257


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

But, is it possible for a natural guy standing at 200 lbs with around 5'8 to 5'10 height?. Achieving low bf% at 160-170 lbs looks attainable provided you know how it works to get that.



Dark sim said:


> That was my original point, you dont need AAS for dry grainy look. That is achieved by low bf.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

In terms of AAS or hard work assisted by proper knowledge? 



zyphy said:


> That pic looks like it's had some work done it


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## b4tm4n (Apr 11, 2014)

Natural from Valencia


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> So ALL WNBF athletes are juicing...
> 
> Some things aren't opinion based, just limited mindset, he is natural, it is not a matter of opinion. I don't expect many to have the same opinion cos their knowledge, training, diet, drive, determination, conviction is limited.


You do realise everyones talking about the guy in the OP.

The whole point of the thread and question not the guy you posted and seem to have a strong connection to


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

mrwright said:


> You do realise everyones talking about the guy in the OP.
> 
> The whole point of the thread and question not the guy you posted and seem to have a strong connection to


Are they lol? You can read minds. So, why were people replying to me?

Maybe read the thread in its entirety before commenting.

The OP pic is nothing and easily achievable naturally, if you know how.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Seriously?. :confused1: ..There is something that i don't know then or i am doing it all wrong. I am natural, but the bitter truth is that all these years i have kept a check on my calories and cardio, but never reached even 50% of this guy's physique:cursing:. Moreover, if this kind of physique is attainable naturally, then why people who don't see themselves on stage take AAS?. Impatient and ignorant?


We live in a very impatient world, and work ethic is not something familiar to a lot of younger guys these days.

I don't expect many to believe the guy I posted to be natural, because most couldn't achieve it. Bear in mind, he is at world level.


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## H_JM_S (Mar 27, 2012)

rich gozdecki is apparently 'natural' and trains at my gym occasionally ........ he's so fcking big! What tests are conducted for these drug free competition?s


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Are they lol? You can read minds. So, why were people replying to me?
> 
> Maybe read the thread in its entirety before commenting.
> 
> The OP pic is nothing and easily achievable naturally, if you know how.


They were replying ro you because you jumped in and called everyone fat ugly lazy idiots lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

H_JM_S said:


> rich gozdecki is apparently 'natural' and trains at my gym occasionally ........ he's so fcking big! What tests are conducted for these drug free competition?s


Another wnbf pro. Lie detector before stage & Urine test for winners.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

mrwright said:


> They were replying ro you because you jumped in and called everyone fat ugly lazy idiots lol


No I posted a pic that was hard and grainy, which apparently isn't achievable without AAS. Then they replied to me.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

If anyone thinks this isn't achievable

Natural needs to check out some natty pros

@ConP can also be a good example of this kind of natty conditioning


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

bail said:


> If anyone thinks this isn't achievable
> 
> Natural needs to check out some natty pros
> 
> @ConP can also be a good example of this kind of natty conditioning


Con isn't natty tho is he?


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> In terms of AAS or hard work assisted by proper knowledge?


Neither.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

BrahmaBull said:


> Con isn't natty tho is he?


He was when dieting for his last show

And when he achieved thay sort of condition

Say something?.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

bail said:


> He was when dieting for his last show
> 
> And when he achieved thay sort of condition
> 
> Say something?.


You can't suddenly claim natural, how are you to know how his previous AAS use effected his condition. I guess you don't understand much about the lasting effects of PED's

You are talking for con anyway who I don't believe even claimed natural but drug free. There is a big difference.

Say something.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Rich piana is my favourite natty bodybuilder

just 12 meals a day and training 7 days a week, who needs gear when your a 5%er


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

swole troll said:


> Rich piana is my favourite natty bodybuilder
> 
> just 12 meals a day and training 7 days a week, who needs gear when your a 5%er


Haha. 5% kill this sh1t!!11!!


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

BrahmaBull said:


> You can't suddenly claim natural, how are you to know how his previous AAS use effected his condition. I guess you don't understand much about the lasting effects of PED's
> 
> You are talking for con anyway who I don't believe even claimed natural but drug free. There is a big difference.
> 
> Say something.


Far point in regards to con being drug free not natty, previous ped Use of course would make a big diff in reguards to muscle gained,

But to condition no

Have you a argument to Counter argue against the condition that natty bbers come in at?


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

bail said:


> Far point in regards to con being drug free not natty, previous ped Use of course would make a big diff in reguards to muscle gained,
> 
> But to condition no
> 
> Have you a argument to Counter argue against the condition that natty bbers come in at?


Its impossible that previous PED use will have any long term effects on the body to positively effect condition?

Are you 100% sure?

I don't know the answer to this btw but I'd be sceptical for sure.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

then?



zyphy said:



> Neither.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> then?


A tan, lighting and Photoshop can do wonders. Hes clearly shredded but the aforementioned three factors enhance the look further


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

BrahmaBull said:


> Its impossible that previous PED use will have any long term effects on the body to positively effect condition?
> 
> Are you 100% sure?
> 
> I don't know the answer to this btw but I'd be sceptical for sure.


I suppose greater muscle mass

Could always have a postive effect on lower bf??


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

bail said:


> I suppose greater muscle mass
> 
> Could always have a postive effect on lower bf??


I was thinking if something like tren had been used previously then I could see it have a lasting effect on condition when dieting down without AAS.

All just theory tho lol


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## MrSilver (Aug 4, 2014)

This guy clearly isn't on any juice and looks good if you ask me..


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes but you will end up about 7 stone lol


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

lol..He is 175 lbs



cas said:


> Yes but you will end up about 7 stone lol


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

I should add third option in the poll as Photoshopped..lol..Your point looks quite valid on tan and lightning as this pic is from one of his photo shoot. Photoshopped?. I don't think so. I have met this guy twice, always look like he is one week outmg:



zyphy said:


> A tan, lighting and Photoshop can do wonders. Hes clearly shredded but the aforementioned three factors enhance the look further


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