# WHATS BEST TO TAKE POST WORKOUT



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi i take whey protein post workout whats carbs are best to take with this heard dextrose and maltodextrin are good sources ,i know the dextrose causes an insulin spike which is what is required to restote muscle glycogen stores but i have also hear taking this could cause fat stores, whats the truth behind it ?

im currently havng as post workout 50g of whey with a banana ad some grapes sometimes pineapple , i just wondering whether im short changing myself and shoul take dextrose and maltodextrin 50/50 ratio or just malto or just dextrose any views on this would be appreciated with regards to does it or could it cayse fat stores


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## mark44 (Jun 22, 2011)

I use vitargo, that is meant to be one of the best fast acting carbs. It can be used post and pure workout.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

i just got some vitargo from my protein i understand that this is a maize starch carb , whats the truth behind this stuff could this cause fat gain ?


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

My cocktail of choice is-

75g whey

70g dextrose

6g creatine

10g glutamine

10g bcaa's

6g leucine

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm........


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

have you noticed any fat gain with the dextrose ?


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## Djibril (Aug 14, 2009)

it would not be fine using some Oatmeal?.. im not really sure it should be any more beneficial using dextrose or maltro or whatever


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## Bicep_Bill (Dec 10, 2011)

waxy maize starch is basically a form of cornflour

vitargo is hydrolized barley starch

if you have carbs pre workout, then the need for fast acting carbs post workout are not necessary.

However, WMS/Vitargo/Dex/Malto/Oats etc are all suitable post workout

Simple things like two slices of bread or a banana are also good options

Have whey, some carbs(portion size depending on goals) followed an hour later by a good meal


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## Bicep_Bill (Dec 10, 2011)

also i dont think there is a need to have any more than 50g whey post workout, i would use 30-40g max, with 30-60g carbs depending on goal, with some healthy fats as well.

followed by large tin tuna, 30ml mayo, 2/3 slices whole grain bread, 400ml milk. Or something like that.


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## Sureno (Feb 8, 2011)

i just take CNP Pro Recover, 4 scoops (160g)


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

big vin said:


> have you noticed any fat gain with the dextrose ?


No mate, been using it for years.

Depends how you use it.

If it fits your macros etc then it's all good. Best time to get simple carbs in IMO.


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## mark22 (Jul 13, 2011)

40g dextrose from coop pwo with 45g protein. Works great and no fat gain as it fits into my diet.


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## Russs (Nov 14, 2011)

....jack3d :lol:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

wow,so much over thinking going on here.

to throw the cat amongst the pigeons,for me and the guys i prep i actually tell them to eat a frys turkish delight pwo,in fact heres a step further for you,one of the top prep guys on the planet skip hill recomends his clients use a simple sugar cerail like frosties or coco pops post workout,people it aint gnr make you fat lol

keep it simple,your only trying to cause an insulin spike,your body will deal with the carbs no matter what the source.


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## Russs (Nov 14, 2011)

but what if you have no pancreas?

lol joke


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

throw in another cpl of crispy trips or a zinger and you got the perfect pwo recovery meal


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Just a quick question...

Would you guys who bulk and cut use different amounts of fast acting carbs after a workout, or do you keep it the same amount?

For example, on MyProtein, the recommended dosage for Vitargo is 75g which gives you 69g of fast carbs. When cutting, would some of

you fellas half that amount to say 30g.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

if it fits in with the daily macros then it makes no odds,tbh the label recomending that is just a rule of thumb and nothing set in stone,for years everyone spouted that 50g carbs was the way,what suddenly changed?fact is everyone will be different,imo recommending a 75g portion is prob only a sales thing,forever you were recommended to use 50g of maxim lol

everyone has different glycogen uptake,not everyone depletes their glyc stores as effectively as the next person due to variances in training intensity,duration etc,trial and error people


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## Brutal1 (Jan 25, 2011)

Big Vin, Going by your Avi mate id say what ever your doing is working just fine, goin by the size of you, we should be asking you what to eat PWO


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

weeman said:


> if it fits in with the daily macros then it makes no odds,tbh the label recomending that is just a rule of thumb and nothing set in stone,for years everyone spouted that 50g carbs was the way,what suddenly changed?fact is everyone will be different,imo recommending a 75g portion is prob only a sales thing,forever you were recommended to use 50g of maxim lol
> 
> everyone has different glycogen uptake,not everyone depletes their glyc stores as effectively as the next person due to variances in training intensity,duration etc,trial and error people


Thanks for the useful info Weeman. You seem like you have a lot of knowledge so I hope you don't mind me picking your brains for a few minutes lol.

I've been considoring Vitargo for a few days now and even made a thread on it but soon changed my mind when a few knowledgable people said

that glycogen is replenished with PWO meals anyways and unless your going to workout again in the same day, Vitargo or any other fast acting

carb isn't really necessary.

My issue is that I have very long workouts which range between 120-180 minutes. On all compound exercises I alway's max out and when I start

training for hypertrophy, the workout's become very intense. Today I trained chest and triceps and had a whey isolate shake afterwards.

About 10-15 minutes later though I started feeling really slugish, tired, and extremely low on energy. My girlfriends a pharmacist so as she was working

today I asked her to check my blood sugar levels which came in normal. I was thinking maybe I feel like sh*t cos of the lack of carbs during my long-ass workouts.

My only fear is that I'll put on fat lmao. When I was bulking, I weighed in at 104kg and now I'm 86.5kg and love the leaness. I only eat low GI carbs which

consist of: rice, oats, sweet potatoes and quinoa.

I think I've got a mental block where I can't help feeling like having fast acting carbs such as Vitargo or Dextrose will blow me up like a balloon and take away

my recently found leaness lol.

What do you make of all this mate?

*Edit:*

Feel free to give your opinion on this matter as well Empire Boy 

*Edit 2:*

May I just also add I'm only talking about using fast acting carbs on workout days. Do any of you fellas use them everyday?


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

Whey protein

Amino tabs

Bannana

Then as soon as you get home have a post workout meal .. Simples!


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Empire Boy said:


> I lost a % of bf in 4 weeks on insulin and peptides, and PWO, with 8-10ui of 'slin, I was guzzling down 200-250 grams of high and low GI carbs with 300grams of protein in 4 hours, sometimes more, not an ounce of fat, and I didn't gain an ounce of fat, I lost a bunch! (I did not eat carbs during the day, and I did cardio, so I was depleted big time often)...I was also not on any fat burners, just caffeine, chromium pic and ALA...all those carbs did not get converted to tri-glycerides and stored as fat b/c they were being crammed into my liver and muscles...
> 
> But as weeman says, how much you take (assuming you're not doing 'slin of course!!) really depends on how glycogen depleted you are, as well as your genetic potential to store glycogen (some don't store as much, and so get fatter easier)...But to not have high GI carbs post workout will be a big mistake, as this is the perfect time to cause an insulin spike. Don't be afraid of the carbs...if you are really concerned you can measure your BG based on varying amounts of carbs until you find the sweet spot, but this will also be related to your workout and cardio intensity for that day, i.e. how glycogen depleted you are.


Thanks for the reply mate.

Would you say taking a scoop of instant oats mixed with whey isolate is a feasable option? I know oats are low GI and slow acting

but in essense wouldn't they do a similar job but just over a sustained period of time?

Not really feeling Dextrose as I used to take it and it didn't sit well with my stomach at all. Vitargo seems to be the best option at the moment.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Empire Boy said:


> No, use the dextrose, maybe use it after days you did an intense session. But you have to trust the science and experience of trainers like weeman...guys who are 7% bf are cramming in High GI carbs PWO like there is no tomorrow b/c they know its going to be shuttled to muscles and the liver not converted and stored as fat...


Not that I'm doubting your or Weemans advice/opinions but wouldn't Vitargo do an even better job as it replenishes muscle glycogen 70% faster?

There seems to be a lot of research on Vitargo as well and it all appears to be very positive.

Price wise it isn't too bad either. A 2.5kg bag would last roughly 71 workout days. That's approximately just over 4 months if you train 4 times a week 

Any reason why you prefer Dex over Vitargo mate (taking price out of the equation).

*Edit:*

Just realised that I'm not sure whether your recommending Dex over Oats or Vitargo lol


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Here's some food for thought...

If the aim post-workout is to replinish glycogen levels, wouldn't using high doses of Glutamine do the same thing with zero chance of any fat gain for those who are cutting?


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## Brutal1 (Jan 25, 2011)

As far as fat gain goes, I have used a whey shake with piece of fruit after weights training, whey with no carbs, and whey with Maltodextrin, I have never noticed any difference in fat/weight gain.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Brutal1 said:


> Big Vin, Going by your Avi mate id say what ever your doing is working just fine, goin by the size of you, we should be asking you what to eat PWO


Hey thanks for the compliment my usual post workout shake is 2 scoops of whey about 50g with a banana and about 30g of pineapple and some aminos followed half hour later with a solid meal , was just wondering whether the carbs in liquid form i.e dextrose malto would be better


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

I have a handful of wine gums, 2 scoops of PHD Iso7, an extra scoop of whey and 2 KreAlkalyn tablets.

An hour later I'll then eat chicken and rice/jacket potato.


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## shane278 (Aug 25, 2008)

I like a mixture of whey, carbs and creatine.


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## BodyBuilding101 (Mar 8, 2006)

Sureno said:


> i just take CNP Pro Recover, 4 scoops (160g)


I use the same but only 2 scoops...


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## kev1 (Nov 11, 2010)

weeman r u serious????

ive been necking rancid tasting vitargo and waxy maize starch for years.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Contest said:


> Thanks for the useful info Weeman. You seem like you have a lot of knowledge so I hope you don't mind me picking your brains for a few minutes lol.
> 
> I've been considoring Vitargo for a few days now and even made a thread on it but soon changed my mind when a few knowledgable people said
> 
> ...





Empire Boy said:


> I lost a % of bf in 4 weeks on insulin and peptides, and PWO, with 8-10ui of 'slin, I was guzzling down 200-250 grams of high and low GI carbs with 300grams of protein in 4 hours, sometimes more, not an ounce of fat, and I didn't gain an ounce of fat, I lost a bunch! (I did not eat carbs during the day, and I did cardio, so I was depleted big time often)...I was also not on any fat burners, just caffeine, chromium pic and ALA...all those carbs did not get converted to tri-glycerides and stored as fat b/c they were being crammed into my liver and muscles by the 'slin, and there was plenty of room as I was so depleted from cutting my carbs out during the day and then doing HIIT after weights for 20mins...
> 
> But as weeman says, how much you take (assuming you're not doing 'slin of course!!) really depends on how glycogen depleted you are, as well as your genetic potential to store glycogen (some don't store as much, and so get fatter easier)...But to not have high GI carbs post workout will be a big mistake, as this is the perfect time to cause an insulin spike. Don't be afraid of the carbs...if you are really concerned you can measure your BG based on varying amounts of carbs until you find the sweet spot, but this will also be related to your workout and cardio intensity for that day, i.e. how glycogen depleted you are.


empire basically nailed it all with his answers 

Vitargo imo is just an over rated fad supp,its a cool name etc and people been jumping on it for years now,it used to cost a small fortune back in the day lol

keep it simple on this front like i said already,dextrose,malto,fkn jelly sweets,whatever,your just trying to create a fast instant spike,nothing else,there is no mystical super carb out there,and like many other things tbh vast majority on here would be very hard pushed to notice any difference other than the placebo effect the super label has filled their heads with regards the carb spiking subject. 

Regarding the sluggish feeling after a high intensity work out,you failing to recognise something obvious,your gnr feel a comedown of sorts too mate,all those endorphins etc,adrenalin been pumping for hours,your return back to Banner mode,you cant stay in hulk mode all day,just burn out,doesnt matter what or how many carbs i take pwo i always feel sluggish as a mofo when on song,only thing that would lift me up at that point is a little nap or for instant then something stimmy/phet related lol


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

to emphasise the not over complicting it thing,only supps i use is pro 6 and extreme whey,some malto,krevo caps,vit c tabs and CLA caps,thats it,now without sounding like a pr1ck i think think its fair to say i have achieved size and conditioning using that most would sell there mothers for,all i am trying to say is stop looking for the new super duper formula,secret breakthrough in supp timing etc,just keep it simple,get the sh1t in,train,eat,sleep,shag like a beast and dont be scared to drink alcohol lolol


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheers for the useful insight Weeman 

I take it your not a big fan of BCAA's or EAA's either then? I myself don't use BCAA or EAA

but it seems to be one of the products that people push the most. I actually made a thread

today (that no one has replied to yet lol) about what supplements are over-rated when taking

gains and costs into considoration when an individual is already on juice.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Contest said:


> Cheers for the useful insight Weeman
> 
> I take it your not a big fan of BCAA's or EAA's either then? I myself don't use BCAA or EAA
> 
> ...


not that i am not a fan of them,they defo useful,i have gone bouts of using them just not been consistent enough with them,also to be really honest if your drinking a multi source prot shake like Pro 6 for example (yeah blatant plug but i wouldnt say it if it was sh1t) then you already got a constant stream of aminos rumbling around your system,same if you got a gut full of meat digesting away,amino's trickling in all day 



Empire Boy said:


> I think it is fair to put yourself forward as evidence...you are a perfect example of how keeping it simple (in both what you eat and when) is the best way to go...There are no secrets, high GI is high GI, insulin is insulin, protein is protein etc etc. Some are more insulin sensitive, some more resistant, others as said above are better at storing carbs, others aren't. Some have more AR receptors etc etc The only really complicated thing in this game is knowing your own body...and even more complicated is having the discipline to stick to a structured diet and training programme in relation to it...the supplements and food are the easy part...it all gets broken down and/or stored as the same sh1t at the end of the day, so why spend £20 for a kilo of something you can pay a fiver or less for...
> 
> Weeman didn't get one of the best physiques on UK-M by cramming a bunch of expensive PWO shakes or supplements down, its the outcomes of years of structured diet and training, sticking to it, and doing it right. And one of the basics in this game is getting an insulin spike PWO, whether natural or exogenous, as this is when you are extremely anabolic...


nail on the head there mate 

tho dont know about me havin one of best physiques on here lol lot of awesome physiques on here,i class myself as lower tier of the competitive guys lol

it also took a fair bit of drug and alcohol abuse to build this physique too you know  lol


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## kev1 (Nov 11, 2010)

so you'd just take dextrose and whey post workout?


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## kev1 (Nov 11, 2010)

thanks mate


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Empire Boy said:


> BCAAs I don't really get, or adding in extras like glutamine and taurine, b/c, as weeman is saying, if you are ingesting 250-400 gram of protein a day, well, you got all 20 of the fackers pretty much covered...


That's what I've often wondered about BCAA's, I eat every 2 1/2 hours, upto 400mg protein a day, so do I really need a top up of them? All the shakes I have claim to be rich in them, so will an extra 5-10mg from tablets/powder really necessary, especially considering how much it costs?

I'm currently using USP's 8:1 during work outs, but that's only because my workouts run to 1 1/2+ hours.


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## mark22 (Jul 13, 2011)

I think bcaa's are best saved for when you're cutting before fasted cardio etc. to try and spare as much muscle as possible.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

big vin said:


> Hi i take whey protein post workout whats carbs are best to take with this heard dextrose and maltodextrin are good sources ,i know the dextrose causes an insulin spike which is what is required to restote muscle glycogen stores but i have also hear taking this could cause fat stores, whats the truth behind it ?
> 
> im currently havng as post workout 50g of whey with a banana ad some grapes sometimes pineapple , i just wondering whether im short changing myself and shoul take dextrose and maltodextrin 50/50 ratio or just malto or just dextrose any views on this would be appreciated with regards to does it or could it cayse fat stores


5 pints of Stella..............


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## mark22 (Jul 13, 2011)

I often wonder if it's better to keep beer consumption to pwo :whistling:

And I do usually.


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## poundcoin (Jan 30, 2010)

Would a few scoops of instant oats from MP with a scoop of whey be enough? Or should I add in some dextrose and stuff?


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## Alex The Kid (Feb 21, 2008)

Half a packet of skittles does the trick with a protein shake


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

8 jelly babies. No joke.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Fact is, most people don't need "fast" carbs PWO. Neither is it detrimental to go without them.

We went over the reasons in depth in this thread not long back:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/gaining-weight/154599-pwo-sugar-induced-insulin-spike-ja-oder-nicht.html

In summary:



bayman said:


> Jesus, this has been done to death multiple times on here, with references to boot! In summary:
> 
> 1. Protein around training = good.
> 
> ...


Obviously things are a little different if you are injecting exogenous slin.


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