# Does shoulder pressing really work?



## M-16 (Dec 3, 2013)

First post from a returning ex-member.

I`ve been mulling over something Mingster wrote recently about not doing shoulder presses, just working the side and rear delts. Watching someone pressing today, it looked like mostly front delts being worked. So, two questions;

1 have I misunderstood what was originally posted, and

2 Anyone do a shoulder workout without presses- if so, can you post up your routine?


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## danefox (Oct 18, 2013)

M-16 said:


> First post from a returning ex-member.
> 
> I`ve been mulling over something Mingster wrote recently about not doing shoulder presses, just working the side and rear delts. Watching someone pressing today, it looked like mostly front delts being worked. So, two questions;
> 
> ...


I use to do shoulders with NO Shoulder presses (had issues with my tendons, couldn't do anything where I had to lift my arms above my shoulders)

4 sets Upright Rows

4 sets Side Laterals

4 sets Front Laterals

4 sets rear laterals

would go for 8 to 12 reps each set, when I could do 12 reps in all 4 sets would up the weight.

Hope this helps.


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## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

M-16 said:


> First post from a returning ex-member.
> 
> I`ve been mulling over something Mingster wrote recently about not doing shoulder presses, just working the side and rear delts. Watching someone pressing today, it looked like mostly front delts being worked. So, two questions;
> 
> ...


i havent shoulder pressed for a long time and i cant see much of a difference although i would still do them if it were not for niggly injuries


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

A heavy shoulder press will activate all three delts, I'd image you just read his post wrong. The one that would get the least amount of work would be the rear one I'd imagine. Intention of the moment and angle of body will play a part though.

I find it hard to do strict presses due to flexibility, so do a hang-clean push-press with a bar then strict standing press with a weird machine we have that lets me push against it as well as up.

Pressing has to be the king of shoulder development.


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## SwAn1 (Jun 4, 2012)

I never shoulder pressed at all until a year ago and found that when I tried I could lift 80-90% of what I could on bench. I was quite surprised. I guess I'm probably quite tricep dominate on both


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't shoulder press much these days.

As in everything a lot will depend on your goals, but my thinking goes as follows...

I'm a big believer in getting the absolute most from every workout. This, to me, means no wasted exercises, sets, or even reps. Every bit of every workout must have a purpose. I've nothing against doing 4 sets of 10 for every exercise, for example, but only if you can explain to me why this is beneficial.

Personally I get all the anterior delt stimulation I need from my bench pressing. To add in a OHP exercise would be overkill for me so I don't bother. Yes, you may get medial and posterior delt stimulation from OHP, but not enough to warrant the use of another heavy compound exercise imo. Another big pressing exercise would simply eat into limited energy resources and reduce the effectiveness of the remainder on my workout. I add side and rear lateral raises on bench day and face pulls on deads day and that does me very nicely thank you.

I understand that this may not be appropriate for everyone but, again imo, the anterior deltoid is the most worked muscle in most peoples workouts and the shoulder is a very delicate and complex joint. It needs training, but training with care.


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## J1mmyc (Mar 25, 2012)

How about behind neck seated presses my delts have come along a lot since doing them


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

I only do side raises for my shoulders ATM and their bigger than ever


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

No shoulder pressing does not work !

Nether does squats for hams and glutes !

Ok kidding aside if done in a strict form all the way down not like most people do to presses it does work,

Also depends on ur genetics if u have huge dominant front delt then maybe u need to press as much


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

I used to do separate exercises for all three heads and try and hammer them with loads of sets and reps, light & heavy and everything in between! My shoulders were always only average at best.

A couple of months ago I started the stronglifts programme (which includes the OHP) and since then even though I started with just the bar (now up to 55kg) and my shoulders have come on leaps and bounds. The strict press has definitely worked for me.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Work ya sure why not as your stimulating the muscle but essential...nope.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Seated DB is a bad choice but I think standing DB/bb has a place. My personal favourite is seated DB press but sat facing the bench


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

I have experimented with no presses for shoulders. A few years ago but went back to including presses. I use a lot of push press and military press as i feel they are the bast for overall mass of the delts. I use 2 types of lateral raises as that made my delts fill with blood and really blew them up and started hittng rear delts on shoulders and back day.


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## jimmy26 (Apr 1, 2009)

I go with Standing DB's and not too heavy.. Don't turn it in to a standing incline bench by leaning back too far


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Not very scientific ,, but I do them because I like them.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

I do them and they work for me


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Without derailing this thread. One of the best things i ever did was stop doing front delt raises. They are possible the most over worked muscle.


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

2004mark said:


> A heavy shoulder press will activate all three delts, I'd image you just read his post wrong. The one that would get the least amount of work would be the rear one I'd imagine. Intention of the moment and *angle of body will play a part thoug*h.
> 
> I find it hard to do strict presses due to flexibility, so do a hang-clean push-press with a bar then strict standing press with a weird machine we have that lets me push against it as well as up.
> 
> Pressing has to be the king of shoulder development.


I've often wondered that. Is it best to sit bolt upright? Or even stand?


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Mingster said:


> I don't shoulder press much these days.
> 
> As in everything a lot will depend on your goals, but my thinking goes as follows...
> 
> ...


Same here...if I do a heavy set of seated shldr press or bench first in the week you better believe the other will suffer to the point of being hardly worth doing and then be in pain for the rest of the week too. Also, my brother, younger and not quite as big as me discovered the same lately and is suffering with an ongoing pain in rotator cuff in shoulder as a result of overdoing both. In fact, I'd have to say, for maximum development...benching whatever variation of is perfect for shldr first in the weeek...saving you enough to hammer the lateral and rear delt heads which for a lot of lads I see don't get the best possible workout for those heads as a result of focusing too much on the anterior head.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

back when i was still pretty new to training i used to put most emphasis on pressing with shoulders but reality was medials and especially rears tend to be neglected

would never cut pressing out of shoulders day but focus alot of sides and rears now. gotta get that 3D effect where they popping from all sides


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

eezy1 said:


> back when i was still pretty new to training i used to put most emphasis on pressing with shoulders but reality was medials and especially rears tend to be neglected
> 
> would never cut pressing out of shoulders day but focus alot of sides and rears now. gotta get that 3D effect where they popping from all sides


When you're benching and pressing 100k+ for sets and you're in around 40yrs old or more....the rules change dude.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> When you're benching and pressing 100k+ for sets and you're in around 40yrs old or more....the rules change dude.


i know what you mean about pressing twice a week and 1 affecting the other. i rarely do shoulder and chest in the same week. currently doing shoulders fortnightly


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

mixerD1 said:


> Same here...if I do a heavy set of seated shldr press or bench first in the week you better believe the other will suffer to the point of being hardly worth doing and then be in pain for the rest of the week too. Also, my brother, younger and not quite as big as me discovered the same lately and is suffering with an ongoing pain in rotator cuff in shoulder as a result of overdoing both. In fact, I'd have to say, for maximum development...benching whatever variation of is perfect for shldr first in the weeek...saving you enough to hammer the lateral and rear delt heads which for a lot of lads I see don't get the best possible workout for those heads as a result of focusing too much on the anterior head.


fcck that lol,i do loads of standing mill press start of the week front and behind neck with arms,then chest on fri

rear delts twice a week too,less sets though 8-9 reps.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

I know guys...but how much are ye pressing....what age are ye? Behind the head..is it strictly necessary...what kg are ye pressing behind...is standing stricter then seated? Are ye training for size, strength or ego?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I Just do push press and side laterals for shoulders.

Push press just seems more of a (I hate this term but I'll use it anyway) "functional movement" than a strict press and I seem to benefit more from it.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

The questions I would be asking myself are...

What does OHP give me that bench and lateral work doesn't?

If so, why am I doing X amount of sets/reps of OHP?

Am I overdoing anterior deltoid work and asking for an injury?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

mixerD1 said:


> I know guys...but how much are ye pressing....what age are ye? Behind the head..is it strictly necessary...what kg are ye pressing behind...is standing stricter then seated? Are ye training for size, strength or ego?


its a lot harder than seated yes,behind the neck hits my delts better ,and yes train for size,strength

secondary im an all out bbuilder so no lifting ego,and im older than you probs..somrtimes you have

to force the muscle to grow,and usually that can mean a bit of pain and discomfort.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Smitch said:


> I Just do push press and side laterals for shoulders.
> 
> Push press just seems more of a (I hate this term but I'll use it anyway) "functional movement" than a strict press and I seem to benefit more from it.


no mate your absolute correct,although I do a strict press,it brings ito play more muscles,core ect

and recruits more secondary muscles in upper back,so leading to more health in the delt area,

scapular and rhomboids are recruited too all theses muscles will help you avoid common

delt injuries.


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## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

Galaxy said:


> Work ya sure why not as your stimulating the muscle but essential...nope.


Genuinely not trying to be a dick but can someone translate?


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

mal said:


> its a lot harder than seated yes,behind the neck hits my delts better ,and yes train for size,strength
> 
> secondary im an all out bbuilder so no lifting ego,and im older than you probs..somrtimes you have
> 
> to force the muscle to grow,and usually that can mean a bit of pain and discomfort.


Srsly? Im nearly 40...I find seated much harder/stricter than standing. I hate behind the head...only done them a handful of times cos of injuries and hate the feeling of them. No mention of weight...


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

My delts are my best assets and I swear by pressing, but I am also a strong believer in side raises being critical for width. Cutting out shoulder presses seems as ludicrous as cutting out chest press and just relying on flys for chest development.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Mingster said:


> The questions I would be asking myself are...
> 
> What does OHP give me that bench and lateral work doesn't?
> 
> ...


its right what you say ming,but in the end its an individual thing regarding your individual goals,plus

I like caning my delts, they respond best to harder workouts,and I havnt got time to fvck about:lol:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I hate the OHP but I do it because my shoulders look better for adding them into my workouts. I do a mix of full ROM and partials.

How much anterior delt recruitment can depend on your technique too, I get under the bar by tilting my torso slightly where as the majority of presses I see people do has the bar placed far forward.


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

braxbro said:


> Genuinely not trying to be a dick but can someone translate?


I think it is meant to read:

Do shoulder presses work? Yes sure they do, after all they stimulate your muscle fibres. But are they essential? No


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

mixerD1 said:


> Srsly? Im nearly 40...I find seated much harder/stricter than standing. I hate behind the head...only done them a handful of times cos of injuries and hate the feeling of them. No mention of weight...


which gets to the main point if you hate an exercise you wont get jack from it,no point doing it,god

nearly forty,i was mr wales in my middle thirties lol,seems a long time gone now:whistling:


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

mal said:


> which gets to the main point if you hate an exercise you wont get jack from it,no point doing it,god
> 
> nearly forty,i was mr wales in my middle thirties lol,seems a long time gone now:whistling:


No, I hate the feeling from them...Ive dislocated my shldrs a few times and they grind if I go behind my head. Mr. Wales...never heard of it...what is it, a beautiful sheep pageant? JK mate...respect!!


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Buzzz_ said:


> My delts are my best assets and I swear by pressing, but I am also a strong believer in side raises being critical for width. Cutting out shoulder presses seems as ludicrous as cutting out chest press and just relying on flys for chest development.


I'll second that on side laterals, definitely the best for that cannon ball shoulder look.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Buzzz_ said:


> My delts are my best assets and I swear by pressing, but I am also a strong believer in side raises being critical for width. Cutting out shoulder presses seems as ludicrous as cutting out chest press and just relying on flys for chest development.


I don't think this is a fair comparison at all. Bench Press stimulates the shoulders to a massive degree. OHP has minimal effect on the pecs. I'm not suggesting that presses should be eliminated from shoulder work, only those presses of an overhead nature


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Mingster said:


> I don't think this is a fair comparison at all. Bench Press stimulates the shoulders to a massive degree. OHP has minimal effect on the pecs. I'm not suggesting that presses should be eliminated from shoulder work, only those presses of an overhead nature


this is a very salient point.

It's very valid if you are doing a PPL (like I know mingster does)

However you do chest and shoulders seperately then there is are few ways to skin this cat


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

rectus said:


> I hate the OHP but I do it because my shoulders look better for adding them into my workouts. I do a mix of full ROM and partials.
> 
> How much anterior delt recruitment can depend on your technique too, I get under the bar by tilting my torso slightly where as the majority of presses I see people do has the bar *placed far forward*.


exactly ,big injurys right there,i like my elbows right back,watch weightlifters training there shoulders,its all

standing strict movments,delts back and down,head forward,they would not train like this if it was

unhealthy for area.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

mal said:


> exactly ,big injurys right there,i like my elbows right back,watch weightlifters training there shoulders,its all
> 
> standing strict movments,delts back and down,head forward,they would not train like this if it was
> 
> unhealthy for area.


Probably my dream physique there.

Wouldn't mind his strength too!


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

Kind of makes sense this entire thread, I only do pushes above the head and never do side raises, hence why my side delts suck donkey bollocks.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

vtec_yo said:


> I've often wondered that. Is it best to sit bolt upright? Or even stand?


Totally depends on how you define best. The more you lean back the more it will focus on your front delts and even bring your pecs into play... great if you're a strongman looking to lift the biggest weights you can, but maybe a stricter more upright motion would be a more efficient way for a bb'er to target the delts.

Personally I can't push up vertically unless it's against a fixed bar (like a smith machine) and even then I have zero power due to poor flexibility. Just by changing the angle by 15 deg or so I can literally double the weight and it just feels more right.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Probably my dream physique there.
> 
> Wouldn't mind his strength too!


heres a better video showing form..


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## M-16 (Dec 3, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies, I`ll try not pressing for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.


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## MiXiN (Mar 25, 2013)

Love finishing off with the Shoulder press using Barbell after lateral raises, etc'..

Brings a nice burn to all heads and good form until exhaustion for me.


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

Mingster said:


> I don't think this is a fair comparison at all. Bench Press stimulates the shoulders to a massive degree. OHP has minimal effect on the pecs. I'm not suggesting that presses should be eliminated from shoulder work, only those presses of an overhead nature


I understand what you are saying but I would much rather isolate the shoulders completely when working them. It would seem that when working chest, the shoulders are indeed used but from personal experience the majority of the stimulus in only in the front deltoid. I wouldn't be comfortable relying solely on a chest workout to work my shoulders aswell. To me it seems an OHP is more efficient, hitting all three heads at once.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Buzzz_ said:


> I understand what you are saying but I would much rather isolate the shoulders completely when working them. It would seem that when working chest, the shoulders are indeed used but from personal experience the majority of the stimulus in only in the front deltoid. I wouldn't be comfortable relying solely on a chest workout to work my shoulders aswell. To me it seems an OHP is more efficient, hitting all three heads at once.


I don't believe the OHP hits all heads at once, especially as most people use a bench to lean against. You get minimal side and next to no rear head involvement. I'm not saying that OHP is a bad exercise by any means, only that people should think about how they are doing things and are structuring their workouts to get a little more from them.


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

Mingster said:


> I don't believe the OHP hits all heads at once, especially as most people use a bench to lean against. You get minimal side and next to no rear head involvement. I'm not saying that OHP is a bad exercise by any means, only that people should think about how they are doing things and are structuring their workouts to get a little more from them.


Personally for me, it does but everyone is different and technique differs. Other than that, I totally agree which is why I would never neglect side laterals and reverse flys/alternate rear delt excercise


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