# Current diet 1 week in..



## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

Hey,

I'm 6 2", 156lbs and vegetarian.

I'm one week into new diet and training for putting on muscle mass, heres a normal day..

Meal 1

Large bowl of cereal

multi vit tab

vit c tab

Meal 2

2 rounds of sandwiches, salad with lots of cottage cheese

Meal 3

Beans on toast (1 tin, 2 pieces of toast)

Meal 4 (before training)

Quorn meal (eg/ burgers, sausages, fillets), potatoes and veg

Meal 5 (after training)

Scrambled eggs (3-4 eggs, 2-3 slices)

1-2 pints of milk

Far from perfect but I've also come a long way.

I know my breakfast is especially week in protein.

I snack on bananas throughout the day (2-3 per day) and try to eat nuts when I can.

I've bought some lentils but am currently looking for some good recipes 

I think protein shakes are the way to go, eg/ mixed in with oats in morning, and one before training or something?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Cheers.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

What is with all the vegetarians in the UK?


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

lol, its a conspiracy chef 

Any help with the diet though?


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

man u really shoot urself in the foot bein a veggie..but hey u are so we cant change that!!

drop some egg in with some oats for breakie...eggs are the way to go my friend (i have a minimum of 6 a day) also cotage cheese and milk are also fairly good... protien shakes are good for convienence but can never replace whole food unfortunatly...

bein a veggie carbs arn't very hard to come by but ur protein sorces are limited as u well know...

obviously up the greens mate its lackin hard which will be a good sorce of nutrients and carbs!!

one more thing how can u live without bacon mate??  have to eat it daily!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Toss a scoop or two of whey protein in the oats or your cereal, tastes better too.

Eggs are good.

Eat some nuts, Almonds might be best.

Some vegetarians eat tofu but I have read soy based protein can raise estrogen so not sure if this would be a good idea.

I also hear vegetarians suffer from deficiencies in creatine and vitamin B12 so you might want to add that into your diet. Also zinc might be good to add too.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

McRonix

I'm working on a vege diatia for the furture

so far what I have found that works best...

Replace the meats in my diatia with a shake consiting of whey protein (desighner), cottage cheese (whole fat), yogurt (whole fat) and water (you need to look up the exact values for each meat and its measurement and then mix this up to match it exactly for each meal, not just general as every is designed in combinations in my diatia).

If you can keep in the eggs, and fish at the very least.

yeah you loose out on all of the extermely good health benefits of meats like natural cla and optimal saturated fats (yes sat fat is good for you in a balanced athletic diet) ect ect ect

I assume you are doing it for religous reasons???


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

hackskii

vege's suffer from massive shortages of many many vits/min/other key items found only in meats


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

No, he's listed the main ones, except I dont think creatine applies.

I take multi vits and eat lots of eggs/dairy/veg so I get most vits I need.

Proteins the main problem.


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

Not religious, partly ethic and partly choice.

Never was a huge meat fan, nor fish.

Just a way of life for me now.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

This is usually where I go into the speach about truth, honesty and how to be honest I would have to tell you that you are robbing yourself of a healthy life by not eating meats... BUT it is your choice. So I'll drop it.

You can still follow my diatia (and should) but use the substitutes I outlined above, it would be essential you follow the top 5 iitems in my alchemy as well or your screwing yourself out of optimal living or even just getting by.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah, I dont know alot about vegitarian diets but I do know that some swear by them.

Might be good for acid ashing and alkaline ashing tho, raising the bodys PH for good health.

I do know that meats tend to lower PH but if taken in with a vegetable and minerals then this will curb the lower PH values of the acid ashing of the meats.

Fats are neutral in PH, but good for eicasinoid production and test production.

*Rant over.*

I would like to read more about vegitarian diets and weigh the benifits to loss values in health.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

The bodies ph is so exact, the diet doesnt do a thing for that, salt and water controls almost all of your ph, that whole ph thing was another myth/fad like the diet for blood stuff and many many other things


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ChefX said:


> The bodies ph is so exact, the diet doesnt do a thing for that, salt and water controls almost all of your ph, that whole ph thing was another myth/fad like the diet for blood stuff and many many other things


So minerals aside from Salt dont effect PH?

Of course they do.

I feel that cancer and desease thrives in an acidic environment.

Raising PH through eating foods that have minerals are vital for good health.


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## dk246 (Jun 19, 2004)

cos hes a vegie does this mean he cant have chicken??? 

lol joke 

emagine no kfc's id shoot ma self:rolleyes:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Oh man a vegetarian that ate fish and eggs!


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

hackskii said:


> So minerals aside from Salt dont effect PH?
> 
> Of course they do.
> 
> ...


 I'm sorry I do stand corrected I was refering to mineral salts and these minerals/salts are completely controlled by fluid balance aka water. If you take in enough of your mineral/salts and drink enough water you can't effect your blood ph with food enough to cause effect. nope notta cant. (but exercise can)

pH of the plasma ( pH of the plasma of whole blood = conventional "blood" pH) is controlled at 7.4 (7.35 - 7.45).

Notice how small of a range that is?

Now go get your blood tested and try to change that ph through food, try really really hard and see what happens. It will stay in that range.

Now in support of what you are saying, Theoretically, opposite pH changes could occur in body zones from shifts of acid or base from one point of the body to another. Proving that such a change has occurred has been impossible so far.

have you ever changed your ph through say too much work load aka exercise and thrown up. That change is so small its not funny and the result is puking.

The PH of blood typing and foods for health are a myth. I'm sorry to say that as I wish it wasn't it would be an instant and quick cure.

IMHO


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

OK that post came out wayy worse than I intended. please don't take it in any nasty way.

But there just are so many myths in medicine and nutrition (especially holistic nutrition)

we know a really well balnced diet is best. down the middle. simple. its not a miracle though.


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## dk246 (Jun 19, 2004)

hey chef where the hell u learn all this stuff

i still get stuck adding the pl8s up in the gym!!! lol

share ur secret


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

My secret. LOL no one every really wants to know the secret, that ruins it for everyone. Put it this way, I got an early start, I learn very fast and I got some very influential help. If you want to accelerate your learning, ask. I teach a class on it every now and again. I used to require all my trainers who worked for me to take it.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

ChefX said:


> I'm sorry I do stand corrected I was refering to mineral salts and these minerals/salts are completely controlled by fluid balance aka water. If you take in enough of your mineral/salts and drink enough water you can't effect your blood ph with food enough to cause effect. nope notta cant. (but exercise can)
> 
> pH of the plasma ( pH of the plasma of whole blood = conventional "blood" pH) is controlled at 7.4 (7.35 - 7.45).
> 
> ...


So what about gout??? isnt that caused mainly through too high a count of acid in the blood.

Or athritis which can be dramatically reduced if you remove acid forming foods from the diet,like excessive meat intake as an example and increase alkaline foods as in fruit and veg.

Or heartburn which for most people is down to too much of the wrong food ie acid forming foods and the body producing too much acid hence the acid reflux,which 9 times out of ten can be cured by eating a higher intake of fruits which are alkaline forming(as long as yu eat the sweet variety of fruits not acid ones)


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

I should drop this now to prevent a stir, but I'll pursue it a bit further.

The pain and swelling of gout are caused by uric acid *crystals* that deposit in the joint. Uric acid is a substance that normally forms when the body breaks down waste products called purines. Uric acid usually is dissolved in the blood and passes through the kidneys into the urine. In people with gout, the uric acid level in the blood is so high (not the blood PH and alkalines will not alter these crystals, they need enzymes like the ones found in cherries) that uric acid crystals are deposited in joints and other tissues. This causes the joint lining (the synovium) to become inflamed. Uric acid is produced by the body. Controlling the bodies reactions are the answer to controlling gout, not PH. By the way ever notice how circulation slows down in larger fatter people and how they get gout? Since the blood can not remove the crystals 9which are natural) from the body they get built up in regions and people develope gout, if you have them just loose some fat and exercise the gout clears up. Exercise raises acid levels in the blood, it should make gout worse if ph is to blame but its actually the cure. (same for below)

arthritis - there are more than 100 different types of arthritis and the cause/treatment is different for each. Some things are the immune system attackting the joint tissue (this is starting to show up with dnp users now in research big time by the way), bacterial and viral attacks, damage from impact and yes, poor nutrition as well. PH is not one of them. Again when people switch from eating junk to eating vegetables (what they consider a low alkaline diet0 they feel better, it is not the alkalinity or Ph of the diet, its the nutrition. Also people who are overweight have a higher frequency of arthritis (its the weight and lack of musclular support).

heartburn - a big one for many, Excess - Coffee, tea, Chocolate, Fried and fatty foods, Tomatoes and tomato-based products, Alcohol, Tobacco and Citrus juices, tend to "relax" the lower esophageal sphincter (LES). They allow the reflux of stomach contents into the esophagus. It also can "increase" the production of stomach acid. (not the blood ph)

Large meals, Eating within 2 to 3 hours prior to bedtime & Wearing tight fitting clothing

A full stomach can put extra pressure on the lower esophageal sphincter (LES), which will increase the chance that some of this food will reflux into the esophagus. Also Lying down with a full stomach and clothing that fits tightly around the abdomen will squeeze the stomach.

NOW here is the situation, I understand why and what about this discussion because I am both an MD and a ND I have sudied both sides, but I still work at the base. the above is only IMHO not facts. It is for a discussion and does not mean anyone else is wrong, it is only my reasons and observances.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

just like to add to the above about heartburn.

If you get it dont waste your time on antacid drugs from the chemist eat some fruit instead a hell of a lot helthier for you than those antacid formulas the drug companies keep pumping out.

Biggest con in the drug industry.

the more you use em the more you`ll "HAVE TO US THEM" in later years.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> just like to add to the above about heartburn.
> 
> If you get it dont waste your time on antacid drugs from the chemist eat some fruit instead a hell of a lot helthier for you than those antacid formulas the drug companies keep pumping out.
> 
> ...


man you are sooo right there. That is really the advice of all time. How many people never make a lifestyle change at all, they just take the pill. ICK


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## SA12 (Jun 2, 2004)

Guys... Sorry to have to be the one to ask...

But this was started by a newbie to the forum in order to get help for his diet and has turned into a thread completely irrelevant (Interesting, but irrelevant) to his original question.

Can someone give this guy help with is diet?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ive also read that if you cut the acid down too much (in the stomach) then the stomach acid might not be acidic enough to kill off the germs eaten in food.

Which can pass throught the stomach and end up giving you a chest infection.

That was some good reads guys and I enjoyed reading that alot.

But I have tested my urine and saliva for PH using Liptmus paper and the PH does change depending on the foods I eat.

So I guess it is the blood that has the least effect on PH so as not to worry if the urine is low in PH?

When I get heartburn, I have used green tea extract and it clared it up pretty fast.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

SA12 said:


> Guys... Sorry to have to be the one to ask...
> 
> But this was started by a newbie to the forum in order to get help for his diet and has turned into a thread completely irrelevant (Interesting, but irrelevant) to his original question.
> 
> Can someone give this guy help with is diet?


I thought I did answer the question

and then when the questions came from that

I asnwered them as best I could IMO.

That would make it relevant to the post.

BUT I seem to be wrong or missing something.

Sorry


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

hackskii said:


> But I have tested my urine and saliva for PH using Liptmus paper and the PH does change depending on the foods I eat.
> 
> So I guess it is the blood that has the least effect on PH so as not to worry if the urine is low in PH?


Your urine is the waste from your blood, so its ph doesn't apply to your body. like ketosis, if you are in ketosis but consuming less calories than you urn at best it will show is trace. which is not really what the blood is showing.

Sorry SA still OT


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## SA12 (Jun 2, 2004)

ChefX said:


> I thought I did answer the question
> 
> and then when the questions came from that
> 
> ...


Dont take things so personally...

I was just trying to get things back on topic...


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

gotcha

no worries then


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> When I get heartburn, I have used green tea extract and it clared it up pretty fast.


Bananas(sweet fruit) work best for me.



> Ive also read that if you cut the acid down too much (in the stomach) then the stomach acid might not be acidic enough to kill off the germs eaten in food.
> 
> Which can pass throught the stomach and end up giving you a chest infection


I`ve also seen this but it was written that "ALL" or "A LOT" of the virus`s germs today could be beaten by the use of better blood ph levels and that the acid in the stomach kills something in the region of about 95% of all the germs we take in,hence the snot/mucus that constantly runs down the back of your throat for the body to kill the germs/virus`s in in and to make antibodies for it in the fututre.



> Your urine is the waste from your blood, so its ph doesn't apply to your body. like ketosis, if you are in ketosis but consuming less calories than you urn at best it will show is trace. which is not really what the blood is showing.


If your showing raised acid levels in your urine surely that has to come from somewhere ie your blood??????

so at some point your blood has had to have a raised acid level for it to clear itself and push the excess acid into your urine through your kidney??????

As a personel test I use on myself as to wether there is animbalance within myself is taken from chinese medicine in that if you are hot/acidic then that will show through your stomach and along the meridian lines to a point in or just under your traps were you get a pinching feeling,most people just put this down to being tensed or stressed when in fact its your stomach/blood/innerself that is in an imbalance.

So when I get this feelling I cut back on the food/spices or anything stimulating and increase the fruits and veg and within a day or so i`m feeling great.


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## SA12 (Jun 2, 2004)

ChefX said:


> gotcha
> 
> no worries then


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

Chef..

You talk about how much I am losing out from the health benefits from eating meat, but at the same time a vegetarian diet provides a wide range of health benefits.

Research shows that vegetarians suffer less from many of the dieases associated with the typical Western diet, including obesity, coronary heart disease, hypertension, type II diabetes, diet-related cancers, diverticular disease, constipation and gall stones. A typical vegetarian diet reflects most of the dietary recommendations for healthy eating, being low in saturated fat and high in fibre, complex carbohydrates, and fresh fruit and vegetables.

So it has good and bad points. I acknowledge the fact that it is not ideal for muscle building but I remain confident that I will get substantial gain with a good diet (which I will continue to correct) and training.

As to all the pH stuff...**WHOOSH** over my head


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

McRoNiX said:


> Chef..
> 
> You talk about how much I am losing out from the health benefits from eating meat, but at the same time a vegetarian diet provides a wide range of health benefits.
> 
> ...


Actually research doesnt show that. Research shows the lifestyle differences of those who eat vegetarian clean (as in unprocessed foods aka more fruits and vegies) is better than someone who doesn't eat clean and meats. (your comparing two entirely different things, not meat or no meat but clean or not aka unprocessed or not aka fresh or mcdonalds)

When you compare things you have to compare them logically, if you eat clean and meats it actually shows the greatest benefits of any diets. You have to compare diets of the same calories as well and most vegetarian diets are very low calories hence the benfits of undereating show more promise than overeating not the vegetarian lifestyle. I used to go balistic in school when the vegies would start to tout a study and I'd tear it up, I can't compare fuels by using racing fuel in a yugo and low octane in a bmw. they just don't compare. Follow?

Typically a "clean" vegetaraian diet benefits most in society who are sedentary, but when you switch to an active lifestyle the need for "clean" diets that include meats is paramount.

compare two diets, same ratios (lets say isocaloric) same calories (lets say 12 times bodyweight) same activity (lets say a walker who lifts weights for health 3 times a week) and same risks/stresses. You will find that the clean meat eating will show you less dis-ease and better health than the vegie diet 99% of the time. I have participated in these studies and as such they are used as the base for extreme performance laboratory testing now. aka the gold standard. My diet mimiks this almost 100% for that reaons.

BUT as I said, its a choice, so I wil help you make the best choices i can with what YOU want to eat.

Cheers


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

I appreciate that. The probem with non-vegetarians is they are sucked into eating food sources such as kfc and mcdonalds a lot more than vegetarians as there is more available.

Another reason I feel almost "proud" to be a veggie is a more global view.

Vegetables are a more efficient source of protein than meat. 40 per cent of today's world grain production is used to feed meat-producing livestock.

Something for everyone to think about


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

wasn't sure if I should continue to post on this, so this will be my last post on this topic here

cookie

The kidneys clear or adjust the ph first pass/++, what is urine is not blood.

The ph of the blood adjusts very very very fast and for a reason, you die if it doesn't.

Otherwise we could use nitrogen strips to test for proten levels in the blood. (remember that gimmik from weider LOL)

You have to pull blood samples and in the case of ph a sample every minute over 1 hour to see the change. it is extremely small and is a sighn of kidney damage when it does show up. (with advanced athletes we now pull muscle biopsies to check these levels as well as blood test, urine samples are only used to see kidney function)

(support for you) NOW eating extreme on ph can effect the body as in stress the system, but we actully have found that low ph aka alkaline is worse as most protein foods come out undigested (it screws with the stomachs ability to digest proteins). the body handles a higher acidic environement better than low (in moderate cases, there are exceptions aka as you pointed out acid reflux indegestion).


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

McRoNiX said:


> I appreciate that. The probem with non-vegetarians is they are sucked into eating food sources such as kfc and mcdonalds a lot more than vegetarians as there is more available.
> 
> Another reason I feel almost "proud" to be a veggie is a more global view.
> 
> ...


Hence the wealthy eat meat and the poor don't. Here in the USA they throw away grain and corn because the produce more than they can use. (they feed it to the masses as corn syrup the worst food on the planet for health reasons) Eventually that will come to a stop (we hope).

There are substitutes that help in the vegetarian situation

I mentioned them before

milk, whey, cottage cheese, yogurt

but again its dairy and some people will not eat it.

Some things can't be substituted for aka fish oils and fish, but you have to make do.

I have a project where I commisioned a film producer to do a documentary on a program I created (my fast food diatia - release in the fall after the law suits LOL). The people only get to eat mcdonalds for 30 days just like in "super size me" but they have to eat it the way I designed (my menu selections) and they have to follow my exercise routine, the results are the opposite of what people would expect. Their BP levels, cholesterol, trioglicerides, bodyfat attitude is, well put it this way, most people would pay big money to be as healthy or liook as good as they do after the experiment.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

McRoNiX said:


> Research shows that vegetarians suffer less from many of the dieases associated with the typical Western diet, including obesity, coronary heart disease, hypertension, type II diabetes, diet-related cancers, diverticular disease, constipation and gall stones.


The studies you are quoting are comparing to people over-eating a typical western diet. You don't get any of these problems with a balanced diet containing meat.

If you over ate vegetarian food you could very well end up with worse. Government statistics can be looked at in so many different ways.

SD


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

I fail to believe that by eating nothing but mcdonalds for 30 days your health would not suffer. The meat quality alone is terrible.


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

So.. anyways, more eggs, milk, cottage cheese, yoghurt. All things I'm trying to do. what about flax seed oil?


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

IMHO

flax should only be used in conjunction with ala and

only if you will not take fish oils.

You need around 120g of flax to equal the

12g of fish oils I suggest for optimal levels.

(Those extra calories from the flax have to be taken back out of the other fat choices in the diet to keep the balance.)

(plus you need the butter as a fat to get the right kind of saturated fat yur missing from meats, which you DO need if you work out intensly and are trying to build/maintain muscle.)


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

For those who eat McDonalds, before you eat your meal (lunches and dinner)... have one side salad NO dressing and a pint of 2% milk. You can't have the fries (one day a week only) and you can't have any calorie beverages (one shake or sugar soda a week only). Otherwise choose any sandwhich you like for the meal as long as the total meal calories line up with what you are allowed (aka 12x bodyweight for the day split into 3 or 4 meals) you also must have 3 liters of water a day. Breakfast is simple, must have the milk and coffee or tea plus breakfast must have eggs in it otherwise choose according to your calories. Add in the other stuff from my diatia, post dinner walk, stomach vacuums, sleep stuff and stress reduction techniques. (otherwise known as lifestyle stuff) Now exercise, (follow my oppurtunitas) you must do synaptic facilitation training each morning 10 minutes, you must do metabolic training each evening 10 minutes and you have to do 2 weight workouts for 1 hour a week. (certain styles of exercise at key timing turns out to be the magic bullet here) If you added in my alchemy supps it becomes optimal (yes that is the right wording). You could even adjust the calories (just like in my normal Diatia) week by week and loose fat and gain muscle with it all while improving the outcome.

It has been tested. And it is proven.


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

120g of flax per day???


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

Just use the fish oils.

Honestly, I'd suggest you get my diatia&alchemy, and follow them to the letter with the exception in your case of replacing the meats with the options we went over above (there are a few others but best to talk about those off the board via-e-mail)

thats IMHO


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## McRoNiX (Dec 22, 2004)

thanks. When I get some cash I might well do that.

until then i'll just keep piling eggs down me, lol.

You've been a good help cheers.

Expect to hear from me in the near future


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You know Eskimo's ate almost all proteins and fats and had no cavities, heart desease, cancers, etc.

So saying saturated fats are bad is not entirely the case and in fact you have to have some in the diet for good health.

Cholesterol is a precurser for testosterone and I have read low cholesterol diets can lead to low testosterone levels in men.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> but we actully have found that low ph aka alkaline is worse as most protein foods come out undigested (it screws with the stomachs ability to digest proteins).


I know thats what I said in an earlier post,but from what your saying abou ph levels changing very little it does go to show that "Possibley any change" up or down could be bad for us as a little change can be see as a big change by the body with the ph being such a crucila thing for optimum health.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

so after all of this....

Moderation aka Temperance is the goal LOL

oops


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

"A penny of provention is worth a pound of cure"

But I still think foods alter ph more than we realise

oops


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> "A penny of provention is worth a pound of cure"
> 
> But I still think foods alter ph more than we realise
> 
> oops


Good food, good health.


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