# Need to gain fat and muscle



## NorthernNinja (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm 21 and have been training for over 2 years with significant breaks in between. Now before you judge and just tell me to eat more please read this first.

I went from 8.5 stone to 12.5 stone (Quite a bit of water weight). I have always been boney, even at my max weight I didn't gain much fat around boney areas (Knees and below, top of shoulders, wrist). I think when most of us think of skinny people we don't think really of truly boney people. I was athletic, strong, but still quite boney and now even more so at 11 stone. I deflate really quickly when I stop working out, and I do struggle with appetite.

So I want to gain fat and muscle. Most people won't comprehend the fat part, but when you're boney (not skinny fat) you do need both.

I need to eat more, but how can I increase my appetite and what should I mostly be eating, carbs? Would you recommend doing what sumo wrestlers do, skipping breakfast, working out on empty and having larger meals maybe just three times to build my fat stores and muscle?


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## Franko1 (Nov 19, 2008)

Do what ever you did to get to 12.5 stone before :thumb:


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## steve_b21 (Dec 18, 2008)

100g oats, scoop whey powder, 400 ml milk, Tb peanut butter... Comes to about 1000 calories.... Get a few of those in a day with some solid meals.


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## NorthernNinja (Feb 11, 2012)

Franko1 said:


> Do what ever you did to get to 12.5 stone before :thumb:


I gained a lot of water and muscle, never much fat. Plus I never really had a great appetite, I just forced food down, quite depressing really, which is why I want to try something new to get my appetite up and I heard this working on empty and eating larger more infrequently will put my body into starvation mode and lower metabolism. I do tend to snack frequently at the minute...


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm the same mate, but getting fat isn't the answer... if you kept bulking until you added an inch onto your wrists with fat then you'd have a 48" waist to go with it.

Bone structure is something you just have to live with.

If you're intent on putting weight on for the same of it then it simply comes down to creating a big enough surplus by eating shed loads. At your weight 4000cals a day would do it.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

LOL I wish i had to gain some fat !


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Truthfully, drink sugary drinks with every meal, fry every food and eat junk


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

2 x Double cheese burgers from McDonalds is bout 800 cals n 50g protein and somehow make me hungrier. And 1.50 each


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## Yoshi (Oct 4, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> Truthfully, drink sugary drinks with every meal, fry every food and eat junk


How's that working for you mate ?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

MacUK said:


> How's that working for you mate ?


im not doing that as im not trying to get fat u tit


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## DoIEvenLift (Feb 10, 2011)

op you sound like me, always been active and fit and strong, but small and boney, i started at just under 11stone, now at nearly 13stone. the width of my arms are still tiny tho  but the bicep peak and tricep are actually half decent. and my elbow is thin and boney, and my shins are boney


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## NorthernNinja (Feb 11, 2012)

DoIEvenLift said:


> op you sound like me, always been active and fit and strong, but small and boney, i started at just under 11stone, now at nearly 13stone. the width of my arms are still tiny tho  but the bicep peak and tricep are actually half decent. and my elbow is thin and boney, and my shins are boney


Still excellent gains though, I would love to be 13 stone. I admit my appetite is the main problem. I think I'm gonna try working out hard early and not eating until lunch then eating loads the rest of the day. I read somewhere that sprinting on an empty stomach makes you hungrier for the rest of the day then I read how sumo wrestlers skip breakfast, workout for 5 hours then eat and it makes sense. At the minute I have no need to store fat as I will just snack if I get hungry and have a constant supply of calories.

May not be the healthiest way, but if it packs meat on my bones, that is my priority for now.


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## DoIEvenLift (Feb 10, 2011)

yeah thats since january mate, dont look loads different to when i started IMO, just a bit bulkier. do you take shakes? i just take protein and oat shakes , get around 1500-2000calories a day just from shakes, not including any food i eat.

the thing with running and that before eating, is your going to be burning calories so actually going to need to eat more calories after to make up for it ?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Last summer I got over 14st for the first time in my life... looked much much better at 13 though without so much fat.


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## NorthernNinja (Feb 11, 2012)

DoIEvenLift said:


> yeah thats since january mate, dont look loads different to when i started IMO, just a bit bulkier. do you take shakes? i just take protein and oat shakes , get around 1500-2000calories a day just from shakes, not including any food i eat.
> 
> the thing with running and that before eating, is your going to be burning calories so actually going to need to eat more calories after to make up for it ?


Yes but I've read in several places that it makes you pig out for the rest of the day, which is something I could really do with to boost my appetite, so I'll give it a try for a couple of weeks.


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## DoIEvenLift (Feb 10, 2011)

NorthernNinja said:


> Yes but I've read in several places that it makes you pig out for the rest of the day, which is something I could really do with to boost my appetite, so I'll give it a try for a couple of weeks.


ive noticed since upping my daily calories since training, i actually require more food now and feel much more hungrier now im used to more food. if i went back to my old diet before i trained, id be starving and tummy rumbling half the day lol! how long you been training/trying to bulk?

just get shakes down you if you dont already mate


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

NorthernNinja said:


> I'm 21 and have been training for over 2 years with significant breaks in between. Now before you judge and just tell me to eat more please read this first.
> 
> I went from 8.5 stone to 12.5 stone (Quite a bit of water weight). I have always been boney, even at my max weight I didn't gain much fat around boney areas (Knees and below, top of shoulders, wrist). I think when most of us think of skinny people we don't think really of truly boney people. I was athletic, strong, but still quite boney and now even more so at 11 stone. I deflate really quickly when I stop working out, and I do struggle with appetite.
> 
> ...


I can empathise mate being quite ectomorphic myself (wrists under 7 inches at 5'11") and also struggling with appetite. I agree with some of the others though that bulking to add a lot of fat isn't necessarily the answer... when bulked it's much harder to assess just exactly how much muscle your training is adding, and often people fail to notice when muscle gain is sub optimal when bulking because bodyweight still goes up with the fat gain... and they hold just enough muscle to have moderate muscularity to their shape.

To help with appetitie, first thing I would do is not go overboard with protein intake, as high protein intakes can be quite appetite suppressing... keep it moderate, no more than 3g per 1kg bodyweight (roughly 1.5g per 1lb).

Likewise avoid excessive fibre intake (but definitely do include fibrous veg). Also, I think better practise for someone with limited appetite is to not eat until full at each meal or to eat too many meals heavy on slow digesting fats because that can disrupt appetite for meals later on... best thing imo is to actully eat fairly light meals but fairly frequently, say every 3-4 hours. Use shakes to top up food intake.

Different things work for different people though, so experiment for a while with things like meal size and frequency (and meal composition), and eventually you'll find what works for you.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

snack on nuts and seeds betqween meals is a good idea, 100g or either is 500-600cals protein and good fats


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