# The Ketogenic Diet, while on a cycle...



## A.J. (Sep 14, 2010)

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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

I tried it...couldnt stick to it after one week. Felt like absolute s.hit. It is effective, i just NEED carbs to function. I find i can train hard and do lots of cardio on high carb, high protein, minimal fats.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

A.J. said:


> Anyone here ever been on a Keto diet, while on a cutting cycle? If so, what AAS?
> 
> I'm looking to burn some body fat while preserving (maybe gaining a little more) muscle, than i have now. I will probably opt for anavar or tbol for this cycle.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated


I already replied to you on a different thread, but always on the same theme.

If you're 18% BF, as you stated on this other thread, then it should be relatively easy to cut (between 1 and 1.5 pounds per week) without losing any muscle mass.

Why would you want to go on gear?

Cut first and do a nice bulking cycle on gear after!


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## A.J. (Sep 14, 2010)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> I tried it...couldnt stick to it after one week. Felt like absolute s.hit. It is effective, i just NEED carbs to function. I find i can train hard and do lots of cardio on high carb, high protein, minimal fats.


did ur muscles feel any smaller after that one week? ... And what kind of plan do u follow if u were to cut down? If its not a keto one.


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## A.J. (Sep 14, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I already replied to you on a different thread, but always on the same theme.
> 
> If you're 18% BF, as you stated on this other thread, then it should be relatively easy to cut (between 1 and 1.5 pounds per week) without losing any muscle mass.
> 
> ...


Cheers for ur input mate. Was only considering do the diet on an aas cycle, as i didnt want to lose the muscle i already have. But what u said makes sense thanks


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## bagwash (Aug 31, 2005)

Have just finished 6 weeks in Keto, combined with 750mg Test Enanthate p/wk, and cycled Anavar between 50 to 100mg p/day. Strength remained good and muscles hardened. Will definitely consider again as pre holiday run in.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Ya i tried it there about a month ago and lasted about 5 days. I simple just can't survive without carbs, have a physical job too which didn't help.

Needless to say i'll never try it again.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> I tried it...couldnt stick to it after one week. Felt like absolute s.hit. It is effective, i just NEED carbs to function. I find i can train hard and do lots of cardio on high carb, high protein, minimal fats.


i did the same, fcked it right off after about 2 weeks. felt like death and lost about 15kg on every single lift.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

A.J. said:


> did ur muscles feel any smaller after that one week? ... And what kind of plan do u follow if u were to cut down? If its not a keto one.


i've done this a few times. Keto is protein sparing by nature. Gear wise, you wont get the usual "pump" and fullness as you're glycogen depleted. You just need enough to retain muscle mass. 600mg test is fine. Optionally, add 400-600mg primobolan depot, well known for building muscle on low calorie diets.

Now the real "trick" is dbol... when you carb up. On your carb up day, pop 40-50mg dbol every 4 hours (thats the half life). The reason is the carb up is designed to "swell" the muscle, and dbol really does add to this process. Further, dbol adds extra protein synthesis ability.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I already replied to you on a different thread, but always on the same theme.
> 
> If you're 18% BF, as you stated on this other thread, then it should be relatively easy to cut (between 1 and 1.5 pounds per week) without losing any muscle mass.
> 
> ...


cutting on gear is more important than bulking on gear...

Cutting is a catabolic process. You will loose muscle before fat if not on gear, which ensures ONLY fat is lost..

bulking is an anabolic process- you wont loose muscle without gear, you just wont build as much..

why take 3steps backwards, and 1 step forwards?? LOL


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> cutting on gear is more important than bulking on gear...
> 
> Cutting is a catabolic process. You will loose muscle before fat if not on gear, which ensures ONLY fat is lost..
> 
> ...


Ive thought about this lately and I wonder if it would actually be more beneficial taking more gear on a cut and less on a bulk.


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

For me, going low to no carb constantly is a bad idea. I have used carb cycling (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) whenever I need to cut and after much trial and error the protocol that works best for me is this:

Training Days : 5% above maintenance calories, moderate carbs. Only 3-4 of the meals I eat will have carbs. The rest are low to no carb. Carbs are timed around training. If I'm training in the evening, I'll eat carbs at breakfast, and then low carb meals until pre-training. Follow up with fast acting liquid carb and protein post training as usual; then 1 hour later, a solid meal with a moderate amount of carbs. Total daily carbs on a day like this are roughly 225-300g depending how short or far I am into the cut.

Off-Training / Cardio: 500 cals below maintenace. Carbs for breakfast. Low to zero carbs rest of day unless doing HIIT. If so, as small an amount of carbs before and after HIIT as I can get away with. Preferably do HIIT straight after breakfast to eliminate this problem. Typical carbs on this day are 75-125g; 125 probs at the start, hitting 75 or less coming to the end of the cut.

I never run more than 2 days of low carbs without carbing up, even if it's not a training day. Muscle loss is as low as I can make it. There'll always be a little I believe but it's as best a ratio as I can achieve. I now throw a DNP cap into a couple of low carb days which accelerates the fat loss and doesn't leave me feeling pish so I can't train properly the next day.

Ant


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> I tried it...couldnt stick to it after one week. Felt like absolute s.hit. It is effective, i just NEED carbs to function. I find i can train hard and do lots of cardio on high carb, high protein, minimal fats.


You're supposed to power through the first week as that's the hardest time as your body is adjusting. After that it's meant to be a lot easier.

My understanding is you don't need any AAS on Keto as it uses your fat stores as a fuel source, not your muscle. This is what I plan to follow:

*Dave Palumbo diet plan*

200lb male

Meal #1: 5 whole eggs (Omega-3), 4 egg-whites (can be liquid egg-whites).

Meal #2: Shake: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ½ tablespoon of All Natural Peanut Butter (no sugar).

Meal #3: Lean protein meal: 8oz Chicken with ½ cup cashew nuts (or almonds, walnuts).

Meal #4: Shake: same as meal #2.

Meal #5: Fatty protein meal: 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or Red Meat with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia Nut Oil and Vinegar.

Meal #6: Same as meal #2 and #4, or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra egg-whites.

I have a lot of body fat to lose so this should hopefully get me where I want, and I ideally want to follow it with the Paleo diet but I don't know if a man my age could handle being completely off the beer


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## johnuk (Jul 11, 2006)

the palumbo diet is very good you need to stick to it tho and it does start working well after 2 weeks on the diet you need to have a cheat meal once a week to ramp up your matablism i do it last meal on a sunday pizza and ice cream usually , you need to be able to suffer on diet and most people cant


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## A.J. (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah im on day 2 of the palumbo diet. It's not as hard as some people say.. But then again im only on day 2 lol. I think its KEY to have atleast 80g of good fats a day. (fish oils etc) Its these good fats that help you lose body fat theoretically speaking. Once u go past the 7 day mark ur body should be in full keto state, meaning u should have just enough energy as u had when u were on a carb diet.

As far as doing this with an AAS.. There are mixed opinions on this :s


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> cutting on gear is more important than bulking on gear...
> 
> Cutting is a catabolic process. You will loose muscle before fat if not on gear, which ensures ONLY fat is lost..
> 
> ...


I've cut down over the last few months from about 27% BF to 12% BF and I haven't stopped yet, without using any gear and without losing any muscle. In fact I've actually managed to increase all of my lifts. And no - I'm not at all new to training, so it wasn't a case of beginner syndrome, i.e. managing to add muscle and lose fat simultaneously.

Yes, cutting is a catabolic process, which is why alot of people lose muscle on diets, especially when they start to get below about 15% BF. As I've posted on here (albeit not in this section) I'm a big fan of Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 for dieting without losing muscle. It absolutely is possible with an intelligent diet, in this case a CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet). The diet has distinct micro-phases all within one week of severely cutting calories combined with depletion workouts and the really heavy low-rep workout is strategically placed after the carb-up. Basically it is designed to strip fat whilst also incorporating an anabolic phase.

Since the OP is at 18% BF all I'm saying is that it isn't necessary to use gear to cut down to a good level. Perhaps in the lower levels of bodyfat, which admittedly I haven't yet reached, there is much higher chance of losing muscle together with the fat and gear would most certainly be beneficial. But he isn't there yet by any means.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

A.J. said:


> yeah im on day 2 of the palumbo diet. It's not as hard as some people say.. But then again im only on day 2 lol. I think its KEY to have atleast 80g of good fats a day. (fish oils etc) Its these good fats that help you lose body fat theoretically speaking. Once u go past the 7 day mark ur body should be in full keto state, meaning u should have just enough energy as u had when u were on a carb diet.
> 
> As far as doing this with an AAS.. There are mixed opinions on this :s


Cool, keep me updated on how you get on.

Mixed opinions from who? Juice heads or people who understand how Keto works?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Cr3do said:


> Also is there a book or something on this diet?


Most definitely, but I haven't read any books, just articles. This is my source of Palumbo's diet: http://gymblog.co.uk/diet-and-nutrition/dave-palumbo-diet-bodybuilding-keto-diet/


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## capo (Jul 24, 2011)

rectus said:


> You're supposed to power through the first week as that's the hardest time as your body is adjusting. After that it's meant to be a lot easier.
> 
> My understanding is you don't need any AAS on Keto as it uses your fat stores as a fuel source, not your muscle. This is what I plan to follow:
> 
> ...


How long are you thinking of running this diet for and do you have a carb up day like Skip Loading


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

capo said:


> How long are you thinking of running this diet for and do you have a carb up day like Skip Loading


Ideally until I am at a body fat percentage I am happy with. I don't know how hard the diet is going to be to live on. I don't think I'll bother with a carb load day but I will look into it more nearer the time as I am bulking now.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Cr3do said:


> Just watched the videos on that link, im starting this tomorrow!
> 
> Thanks man!


Be sure to let me know how you get on.


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