# Insulin - Will it make me fat?



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok I've got some slin, it was er... free shall we say, I got an autopen and a bunch of novorapid. Now, if I use the following protocol, will I still get fat from it?

I don't use it daily (maybe I should?) but while I'm not working I've used it like this (bear in mind, it's only been two times, so if I'm wrong let me know)

Workout - Shake

1 hour later - 4iu

10 mins later - shake with 30g protein 50g carbs (creatine, bcaa's, glutamine)

50 mins later - 100g rice (mix of white and brown) & 200g chicken

And no fat at all in the following 4 hours from the jab. I started on 2iu, I'm building up to possibly 10iu max. If I'm doing it like this, not too many carbs, not fat etc am I still likely to get fat from slin? Even if using it this way isn't going to make me huge, I'm sure it will help somewhat and as it was free I may as well use it! Oh and I use it in the morning after a jab as well first thing, same protocol with shakes and food.

Thanks, reps etc. for any help.


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

no slin want make you fat mate if done right but i would'nt run it that way, the way i know run mine 3 times day first thing morning mid day post work out,

if you gonna start post work out then,pin you slin srtaight after training,wait for 15-20min then have your shake 50g whey and 10g carbs per 1iu of slin so if you gonna have 4ui of slin have 40g fast acting carbs virtago i have but you can just have cheaper fast acting carbs,then either have a good solid meal within the hour of your shake about 30-45min later or have another shake this time with 50g protein and about 30g waxy or oats,if you have meal just keep it clean like chic and rice so on,when you up your slin obviously you gotta up your carbs!!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

TAFFY said:


> no slin want make you fat mate if done right but i would'nt run it that way, the way i know run mine 3 times day first thing morning mid day post work out,
> 
> if you gonna start post work out then,pin you slin srtaight after training,wait for 15-20min then have your shake 50g whey and 10g carbs per 1iu of slin so if you gonna have 4ui of slin have 40g fast acting carbs virtago i have but you can just have cheaper fast acting carbs,then either have a good solid meal within the hour of your shake about 30-45min later or have another shake this time with 50g protein and about 30g waxy or oats,if you have meal just keep it clean like chic and rice so on,when you up your slin obviously you gotta up your carbs!!


Ok cool thank you, I read a thread in here though saying that we produce about 10iu of slin naturally after training and taking in carbs though & this leaving it an hour method is the best but from your picture it doesn't seem to be doing you any harm! Is that the way you run it personally?


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

yeh i treid it few diif ways even pre work out pumps are amazing just gotta make sure you got enough carbs in you or during training,but i wouldnt try it as a beginner on slin,a bloke in my gym tha competes at high level runs it that way damn works for him i know ausbuilt runs similar method,pin slin first weather morning after training then 15-20 late shake then about hour later meal or another shake,shakes are good on slin cause digest quicker in body get shuttled easier,tha why i normally have either shake with 50g whey 100gvirtago then have another shake with 50g whey 30gvirtgo and 20g oats,or clean meal instead of second shake,when you get more use slin you get away with about 7-8g carbs per 1iu of slin but start with 10g carbs!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

as taffy has said that is how i understand ausbuilts method .


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Cheers guys I'll try this then, how comes the other method was touted on here, anyone know the reasons why one works better than another? Sorry for all the questions, I just wanna get this right, slin's serious business!


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## adpolice (Oct 27, 2011)

There is also mutants protocol which works really well


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

adpolice said:


> There is also mutants protocol which works really well


Link????


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

adpolice said:


> There is also mutants protocol which works really well


What's that bro? There's a rep and some general love in it for you.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

I've been under the impression if shooting postworkout to consume shake literally straight away to avoid hypo?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I finished a my workout today, then did half an hour on the heavy bag and did a shot of 8iu, set an alarm on my phone for 10 mins to have my shake but had it ready on the walk home, about 8 mins in things got a bit blurry so I done it there and then, also had some lucozade just in case but didn't need any.


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## trueukg (Oct 22, 2011)

is this your first time on it. im interested to see how you get on


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Tasty said:


> I finished a my workout today, then did half an hour on the heavy bag and did a shot of 8iu, set an alarm on my phone for 10 mins to have my shake but had it ready on the walk home, about 8 mins in things got a bit blurry so I done it there and then, also had some lucozade just in case but didn't need any.


Which Is why I thought it best to down shake straight away?


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

Tasty said:


> I finished a my workout today, then did half an hour on the heavy bag and did a shot of 8iu, set an alarm on my phone for 10 mins to have my shake but had it ready on the walk home, about 8 mins in things got a bit blurry so I done it there and then, also had some lucozade just in case but didn't need any.


you most prob felt like that cause you started on 8iu tha quite bit to start with mate!! i would started with bout 4-5iu the build up,you might find you feel like that or get dry mouth and wan eat everything in the fridge,the reason you wait for bout 15min is something along lines it takes about tha long to peak then have your shake!!you always better to carry glucose tabs or fast lucazde with you untill you get used to it!!


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

adpolice said:


> There is also mutants protocol which works really well


any more info on this!!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

C.Hill said:


> Which Is why I thought it best to down shake straight away?


thats how i understood of aus creatine protein and simple carb shake straight away with slin then a carb protein meal hour later max ..


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

@ trueukg - Yeah my first time, I will post back in here my results possibly if you like?



TAFFY said:


> you most prob felt like that cause you started on 8iu tha quite bit to start with mate!! i would started with bout 4-5iu the build up,you might find you feel like that or get dry mouth and wan eat everything in the fridge,the reason you wait for bout 15min is something along lines it takes about tha long to peak then have your shake!!you always better to carry glucose tabs or fast lucazde with you untill you get used to it!!


I've done one shot a 2iu, one at 4iu... should have gone to 6 but I went for 8, perhaps I shouldn't have skipped a step but the 4iu did f-all to me so I thought you know, get it going and all that.

I will wait the 15mins in future, at what point do I have to think "shake now or bye bye"?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

you pin then drink the shake .


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## trueukg (Oct 22, 2011)

yes plase mate it fascinates me


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

Tasty said:


> at what point do I have to think "shake now or bye bye"?


when you are shaking like a leaf, your body is pumping sweat like a hose and your vision is funny. Best do take it 5 min before tho.


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

Tasty said:


> @ trueukg - Yeah my first time, I will post back in here my results possibly if you like?
> 
> I've done one shot a 2iu, one at 4iu... should have gone to 6 but I went for 8, perhaps I shouldn't have skipped a step but the 4iu did f-all to me so I thought you know, get it going and all that.
> 
> I will wait the 15mins in future, at what point do I have to think "shake now or bye bye"?


ok mate no build up like tha should be fine its up to you end day if you want pin then shake straight away i tried many diff ways but i find the way i was adviced to do best but have carb drink or glucose tabs with you if you feel like that then maybe you better of just having simple carbs straight away like i said the protocol i was told wa this

pin slin i run 10iu at time morning midday post training

15-20min later shake with 50g whey 100g of virtago or dex but virtago awsome stuff

60 min later after first pin slin shake with 50g whey bout 50-60g carbs 30g virtago 30g oats or waxy

90 min later after pin slin solid meal carbs and protein,

or if you feel fine and dont want second shake have meal there,the problem is shakes are very good to run round slin but you soon get sick of them well i do anyway,

i run this for 4wks on 4wks of in my of time i use metformin!!

this works for me guys but we all diff and should try diff things see how we get on,and let others know if dont get much results try it diff,

like i said sometimes i run it pre work out i get good gains of that but if you feeling shaky and funny then do not try this you have to get use to slin and know wat your body can take,


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

sorry, but you simple do not need to use fast carbs with insulin, even the really fast ones like novorapid.

sure fire way to get fat is to shove a load of sugars down with it.

and i dont understand why people try to build up to 10ius, more doesnt equal better IMO when it comes to slin.


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

and why would you want to wait for insulin levels to peak before having carbs? that just means blood sugar is already on its way down. insulin levels will rise regardless of wether you have had food or not! you want the carbs and nutrients there ready to be shuttled into the muscles.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

@ Taffy I would rep you, but it says I have to spread them around a bit first! Thank you.



dazc said:


> and why would you want to wait for insulin levels to peak before having carbs? that just means blood sugar is already on its way down. insulin levels will rise regardless of wether you have had food or not! you want the carbs and nutrients there ready to be shuttled into the muscles.


Daz, firstly hi and thanks for posting but I don't understand? Why do I not need fast carbs, what do I do instead?


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

your asking me why you dont need fast carbs, but why do you think you need them?

do you think diabetics down a sugar filled shake each time they administer insuling. Before anyone points out that there are differences between someone whos diabetic and a bodybuilder whos not, yes im well aware of that. but after you take insulin your body isnt going to release its own, so what happens is dependant on the dose, type and administration of the insulin, and the foods eaten.

even the fasted insulins have a taper time of a few hours.

do your workout, have your PWO shake as normal, and make your tea including a good amount of complex carbs. as you sit down to eat your PPWO meal take your insulin.

start with 3-4 ius, and where you go from there is up to you, but personally i think about the 6-8ius mark is about where the gains/sides ratio peaks for most people


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

like i said daz wa works for some might not work for others 10iu is fine for me and no i dont get fat when i use slin,my diet good especially when on slin,

and like i said i tried the shake straight after slin and i didnt seem gain much doing it other way gains better,i run gh with my slin so maybe tha diff,

and 100g of fast ascting carbs want make you fat when taken with slin its rest of your diet make you fat imo!!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Only because I'd read posts on here from guys that had tried and tested it, are in good shape and well respected on here. I can only make informed decisions on the information I have.

I will try your method though, thank you.


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

I prefer insulin after meals but there are times when shakes are better especially with creatine/eea


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

TAFFY said:


> like i said daz wa works for some might not work for others 10iu is fine for me and no i dont get fat when i use slin,my diet good especially when on slin,
> 
> and like i said i tried the shake straight after slin and i didnt seem gain much doing it other way gains better,i run gh with my slin so maybe tha diff,
> 
> and 100g of fast ascting carbs want make you fat when taken with slin its rest of your diet make you fat imo!!


sure, but whats gained from using sugars, rather then complex carbs?

you can take advantage of a natural insulin spike PWO from the fast carbs ie sugars in your PWO shake, and then extend that window by using insuling to shuttle more nutrients than you would otherwise.

you dont need the fast carbs to prevent hypos, and they arent going to add to the insulin spike, as once you inject the body isnt going to release any!

but like you say, loads of different ways to do things, and ive seen ALOT of people get fat using insulin and think they are making gains, much like people talk about having gained 20lbs of muscle on a cycle, yet you see them a couple of years and they arent much different.

insulin is a tool just like aas, but nothing is going to put stones of LBM on in months, unless you have very very good genetics for muscle gain. for everyone else, the gains still need to be slow and steady or the majority will be fat!

however, thats just my take on it, others will and can disagree based on their experiences and knowledge, and there is no correct answer to things like this!


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

dazc said:


> sure, but whats gained from using sugars, rather then complex carbs?


faster digestion so gets to the muscle faster. (good in the AM)

carries other nutrients with them such as creatine/eea

I agree tho it is better just taking a few iu after meals with are high in protein and complex carbs and not too many.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Going back to the fatness thing, I don't eat ANY fats at all for 4 hours after I jab, if I was jabbing slin 3 times a day I'd never have any fat in my diet - surely this is a bad thing?


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Bump - anyone?


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

I would assume it is a bad thing.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

At the moment, I train Monday, Wednesday, Friday in the afternoon (as I'm not working, but my gym isn't open in the morning) so I don't use 3x per day I just do

Train - shot

Next morning - shot

(rest of the day off)

next day

Train - shot

next morning - shot etc.

So only using pwo and the morning after a workout. I'm doing this just because I'm not sure how to structure my diet around constantly being on slin!


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

dazc said:


> sure, but whats gained from using sugars, rather then complex carbs?
> 
> you can take advantage of a natural insulin spike PWO from the fast carbs ie sugars in your PWO shake, and then extend that window by using insuling to shuttle more nutrients than you would otherwise.
> 
> ...


your right mate like i said a bloke in my gym runs it the wat i posted and in fairness he damn good shape,but what works for me and him might not work for someone else,all i try to do is keep my carb in-take,all round my slin jabs so very carbs rest day,but maybe i give your way a go sometime!!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

TAFFY said:


> your right mate like i said a bloke in my gym runs it the wat i posted and in fairness he damn good shape,but what works for me and him might not work for someone else,all i try to do is keep my carb in-take,all round my slin jabs so very carbs rest day,but maybe i give your way a go sometime!!


Taffy, help me! You know about stuff!


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

Tasty said:


> Going back to the fatness thing, I don't eat ANY fats at all for 4 hours after I jab, if I was jabbing slin 3 times a day I'd never have any fat in my diet - surely this is a bad thing?


fats dont make you fat. too many cals will.

if you are paranoid then drop fats to 50-70g and carbs just enough to cover insulin, make the rest up with lean protein. 50mcg t3 and 200mcg t4 will help alot if you are eating enough protein.


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

if i was you mate just play it safe first time round stick to bout 6-8 iu max 2-3 times day have shake after jab,10g carbs per 1iu of slin.50g whey, then have solid meal within hour just keep it clean,if pin 2-3 times a day you should be still having another 4-5 meals a day anyway, so had good fats in then,

you can run t3 if you want with slin which will help,but up to you,your goal is to eat more while bulking and on slin just try keep your diet fairly clean,run it for max 4wks,then have few weeks of,like i said i normally keep my carb meals round my slin jabs other meals mostly fiborus carbs and protein and good fat!!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

dazc said:


> your asking me why you dont need fast carbs, but why do you think you need them?
> 
> do you think diabetics down a sugar filled shake each time they administer insuling. Before anyone points out that there are differences between someone whos diabetic and a bodybuilder whos not, yes im well aware of that. but after you take insulin your body isnt going to release its own, so what happens is dependant on the dose, type and administration of the insulin, and the foods eaten.
> 
> ...


you can take 3iu during most time of the day (prob not post workout unless you build up from 1-2iu) with no carbs at all most people will find, so pointless starting at this amount. Most use 3-4iu without carbs every 4 hours to get into ketosis on a CKG diet...


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Much appreciated, thank you. So aus your recommendation is shoot it pwo straight away?


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

good to see you back ausbuilt,tasty this is man help you i got most my knowledge of him which like i said was backed up by top bloke in my gym,!!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tasty said:


> Much appreciated, thank you. So aus your recommendation is shoot it pwo straight away?


no probs. If you search the forums, if you don't want to get fat, and most accurately control your carb intake, short acting 'slin is the most user friendly, and Novorapid, in the UK at least is the most common and fastest acting. Take 6-10 iu 3x day, and on training days, one of these should be immediately post work out (i pin in the cubicle in the loo with a pen so, pretty discreet, and there is no need to swab etc for sub-q). I do say, until you learn your response to a MEASURED amount of carbs (i.e use a measuring spoon/scales) test 30mins post shot with a BG meter. you should be above 6.0. if you're under, you need a 1-2g more carbs per kg lean body mass (fat doesnt need carbs, so dont calculate based on your fat mass).



TAFFY said:


> good to see you back ausbuilt,tasty this is man help you i got most my knowledge of him which like i said was backed up by top bloke in my gym,!!


thanks Taffy. My new job has a lot of travel so hard to be online much, now, but try and keep my nose in... on interesting topics at least!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> Looking f**king huge and cut in that avatar Aus! And with a bird half your age...legend.


thanks mate, its the most recent photo i have, back in September.. am actually 102kg now (was 104 in the photo, and at 8%) but am hovering at the 7% mark now.. sounds like not much.. but the difference in vascularity is crazy... when things slow down a bit, will try and get a proper photo in the gym.

PS.. who said you cant cut on 2g+ of test and 150mg/day of oxys!

that was a honeymoon pic- the bird IS 14 years younger than me, but is now the wife!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

good to see u back aus, looking good in avi :thumb:


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> you can take 3iu during most time of the day (prob not post workout unless you build up from 1-2iu) with no carbs at all most people will find, so pointless starting at this amount. Most use 3-4iu without carbs every 4 hours to get into ketosis on a CKG diet...


 in response to the reply to your edits to my post, i do like people that state their opinion as utter fact. and i do believe i said i KNEW the difference between a diabetic and an insulin user, but thanks for the lesson

and as for the above using 3-4 iu's with no carbs, well i absoloutely couldnt do that, it would send my hypo. So maybe realise that there are many different ways rather than thinking yours is the only correct way.

i know plenty of people that run it just the way i was talking about.

but your a high posting member so people will take your advice of 3x10ius im sure.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

dazc said:


> in response to the reply to your edits to my post, i do like people that state their opinion as utter fact. and i do believe i said i KNEW the difference between a diabetic and an insulin user, but thanks for the lesson
> 
> and as for the above using 3-4 iu's with no carbs, well i absoloutely couldnt do that, it would send my hypo. So maybe realise that there are many different ways rather than thinking yours is the only correct way.
> 
> ...


to be fair to u dazc, there is a sticky on insulin outlining the same protocol that you use (or v similar), and i havent tried either yet as i see merits in both.


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## adpolice (Oct 27, 2011)

Mutants protocol suggests slin pre-workout along with a shake containing fast-acting carbs(dextrose/vitaro/WM),EAAS+creatine(optional)start drinking after the shot slowly sipping until the end of workout,then an addititional shake+igf1(optional),an hour later a solid carb/protein meal.Unexperienced users should follow the typical 1 i.u of slin with 8grms of carbs,more advanced users with better understanding of how their body reacts to insulin can calculate the amino acids as well and use less carbs


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

cheers fatstuff. looking back, that last post was a little on the ****y side which it shouldnt have been, but i am 3 days out from competing so thats my excuse! i just dont like people stating their opinion in a way that comes accross as fact and telling me im wrong, when its such a subjective thing!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

dazc said:


> cheers fatstuff. looking back, that last post was a little on the ****y side which it shouldnt have been, but i am 3 days out from competing so thats my excuse! i just dont like people stating their opinion in a way that comes accross as fact and telling me im wrong, when its such a subjective thing!


aus knows his beans lol, regardless of his post count but.... a couple of lads on here have gone hypo from a similar protocol to aus (not uncontrollably i might add) but i havent heard of anyone going hypo of the ppwo way like u said but then...... it could be a matter of risk to gain ratio and if u know fully how to control it doing it aus's way, it might be more beneficial (i dont know this personally, just surmising) and your way may be safer due to recently having carbs an hour previous or however long it is. Like i said just surmising, dont know any of this for definite.


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

Fatstuff said:


> aus knows his beans lol, regardless of his post count but.... a couple of lads on here have gone hypo from a similar protocol to aus (not uncontrollably i might add) but i havent heard of anyone going hypo of the ppwo way like u said but then...... it could be a matter of risk to gain ratio and if u know fully how to control it doing it aus's way, it might be more beneficial (i dont know this personally, just surmising) and your way may be safer due to recently having carbs an hour previous or however long it is. Like i said just surmising, dont know any of this for definite.


he does indeed mate, ive read enough of his posts to know that, and his opinion is a very valid one for sure.

but if i were using sling, it wouldnt be the way hes suggesting, it would be the way i outlined! And i also wouldnt be suggesting that a newbie user start at 3x a day, and i also disagree that people need to try build up to 10ius a day.

for alot of people, myself included 10ius of something like novo becomes very hard to control, and the benefits of that dose over say 4-6ius simple dont make it worthwhile.

and im someone that will always go on the very cautious side when advising doses to new users, they can make the decision to push them higher later on if they need to, but why start out thinking you need to get to 10ius?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

me personally am considering starting off with 6iu work up to 8iu and bringing the carbs down to about 50g rather than 80g (progressively i mean though) as i dont want to get fat from it, i honestly believe this is one of them things you have to work out for yourself the best way as everyones different and may respond differently.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> aus knows his beans lol, regardless of his post count but.... a couple of lads on here have gone hypo from a similar protocol to aus (not uncontrollably i might add) but i havent heard of anyone going hypo of the ppwo way like u said but then...... it could be a matter of risk to gain ratio and if u know fully how to control it doing it aus's way, it might be more beneficial (i dont know this personally, just surmising) and your way may be safer due to recently having carbs an hour previous or however long it is. Like i said just surmising, dont know any of this for definite.


thanks mate. I also would like to point out that I most of the time make a point of saying that the use of a BG meter is essential in dialing in 'slin use... regardless of the dose..



dazc said:


> he does indeed mate, ive read enough of his posts to know that, and his opinion is a very valid one for sure.
> 
> but if i were using sling, it wouldnt be the way hes suggesting, it would be the way i outlined! And i also wouldnt be suggesting that a newbie user start at 3x a day, and i also disagree that people need to try build up to 10ius a day.
> 
> ...


thanks mate, sorry if I came across a bit abrupt, my excuse is it was like 2am in central europe when I was posting. All I really wanted to get across was that if you are going to take 'slin, you need to take an amount that will give noticeable results since you're decreasing your sensitivity when you use it (hence i advocate 4 week EOD cycles, followed by at least 4 weeks on metformin to regain sensitivity).

the more sensitive you are, the less actual 'slin you need... that being said, many can take 1-2iu carbless, and over 4 weeks build up to 3iu (for ketosis); so somewhere between 6-10iu is prob a good balance for bulking up.

Not saying the protocol I use (i didn't make it up, I adapted it from A.L Rea in building the perfect beast) is the only way, but I've had very good results of it... (as in lean gains, withou excess fat)


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

to be honest mate, if you put on fat easily then i would say that insulin is going to be of limited use. I think its best suited to people that are naturally skinny and struggle to put on weight, either fat or muscle.

People prone to gaining fat will have to play with the carb levels etc to avoid fat gain, and then it gets more risky in terms of hypos. if it comes on quikly and you have just had a meal, it can be a worryingly long time untill fast carbs start to kick in and bring you out of it.

Id say your probably better just using smaller doses and reasonable carb amounts, rather than higher doses and trimming carbs as much as possible. If your gaining fat it may also mean altering other areas of diet away from the insulin use, though be aware that the whole days food can have an effect on the reaction. so where you may be able to get away with 'x' grams of carbs, if you change things during the day, you may find its suddenly not enough


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## dazc (Oct 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> thanks mate, sorry if I came across a bit abrupt, my excuse is it was like 2am in central europe when I was posting. All I really wanted to get across was that if you are going to take 'slin, you need to take an amount that will give noticeable results since you're decreasing your sensitivity when you use it (hence i advocate 4 week EOD cycles, followed by at least 4 weeks on metformin to regain sensitivity).
> 
> the more sensitive you are, the less actual 'slin you need... that being said, many can take 1-2iu carbless, and over 4 weeks build up to 3iu (for ketosis); so somewhere between 6-10iu is prob a good balance for bulking up.
> 
> Not saying the protocol I use (i didn't make it up, I adapted it from A.L Rea in building the perfect beast) is the only way, but I've had very good results of it... (as in lean gains, withou excess fat)


no worries at all mate glad that we have got back onto the topic, as i do enjoy a good little discussion!

for what its worth, i do also know plenty of people (in fact probably the majority) that run insulin in the way you outlined, and of those i know quite a few that have made good gains. I also know quite a few that have piled on fat, but as will anything thats down to diet not a problem with the actual method.

Im quite insulin sensitive, indeed i suffer from reactive hypoglycemia, and its very easy for me to tip over into low blood sugar, even without insulin, especially when im very lean. If i take novo with fast carbs, ie a PWO shake, it then makes it quite unpredicatable as to how im going to react. where if i take it with PPWO meal, its a much more controlled response, and i can acurately predict how i will react. Ive also had better lean gains using with PPWO meal rather than PWO shake, so on balance or both results and safety its a much better protocol for me.

not something i have run for a while now anyway, since im no longer looking to add muscle in any quantity.


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

dazc said:


> no worries at all mate glad that we have got back onto the topic, as i do enjoy a good little discussion!
> 
> for what its worth, i do also know plenty of people (in fact probably the majority) that run insulin in the way you outlined, and of those i know quite a few that have made good gains. I also know quite a few that have piled on fat, but as will anything thats down to diet not a problem with the actual method.
> 
> ...


thats what i tried to get accross in one my earlier posts what works for some want for others,i can take 10iu of slin and with shake or two or one shake and meal iam fine never had problem only my apatite goes through roof,and i dont want seem iam bragging in saying tha,i just think you need to see wa works for you get loads advice do your research,then try it but be sensible!!


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