# The PRO1's cycle



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Lets cut to the chase.

We all know what it takes to be a pro bodybuilder; dedication, desire, consistency with diet, training and supplementation but perhaps the most interesting part is that of a pro's cycle. It's also something that many are not willing to divulge or discuss, certainly not with anyone outside their close circle of friends/associates.

I am not going to give my name, not because I fear retribution by the IFBB but more because I am a fairly private person and wish to remain anonymous. Whether you choose to believe my pro status is up to you, it has no bearing on me or what I will be posting here, I will just say it as it is.

This is my current cycle

On waking and before bed:- 2ius Pharma grade GH, 7 days a week.

Weeks 1-4

1000mgs sustenon EW

400mgs norma deca EW

30mgs dbol ED (split into 3 doses)

50mgs anavar ED (split into 2 doses)

Weeks 5-8

1000mgs test enanthate EW

400mgs tren enanthate EW

50mgs anapolon ED (split into 2 doses)

50mgs winstrol ED (split into 2 doses)

Weeks 9-12

100mgs test propionate EOD

100mgs tren acetate EOD

50mgs anavar ED (split into 2 doses)

30mgs halotestin ED (split into 3 doses)

Weeks 13-16

PCT protocol

Weeks 17-18

Off all meds including PCT

I am currently 5 days into my first block of 4 weeks and around 4lbs up on my starting weight of 204lbs. I am now sitting at 208lbs, stripped in the morning.

I will add in my thoughts to this thread on a daily basis.

My lower back has already started to feel pumped at times especially when training hamstrings and calves today. I normally find this on anavar.

My energy levels are great and I feel great. I am sleeping well and normally rising to use the bathroom 1-2x per night.

My strength is rising nicely and today performed 3 sets of 8 straight legged deadlifts with 350lbs.

Tomorrow is sunday and is a rest day.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Got to ask, why are you using strong aromatising orals like dbol with var and oxy with winny? i don't get it.

PS, welcome to the board.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Good question and thankyou for your welcome.

The idea is to link an androgenic compound with a compound more anabolic in nature, same with the injectables too.

This theme runs throughout the 12 week cycle.

BTW oxy doesn't really aromatise.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

after week 18 do you go back on cycle or have a certain amount of time off.

I like the idea of the cycle and have seen alot of very similar cycles off really big lads and highly competitive ones over on US boards. However they usually change compounds at the 6/8 week mark any reason you change at 4? have you tried different length blocks and found this works best?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

PRO1 said:


> Good question and thankyou for your welcome.
> 
> The idea is to link an androgenic compound with a compound more anabolic in nature, same with the injectables too.
> 
> ...


Thanks, i see what you are trying to do.

I'll strongly disagree that oxy doesn't aromatise though, it just aromatises through a different mechanism.

Good luck, i'll follow with interest.


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## Jacko89 (Mar 4, 2009)

bump for later


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> Thanks, i see what you are trying to do.
> 
> I'll strongly disagree that oxy doesn't aromatise though, it just aromatises through a different mechanism.
> 
> Good luck, i'll follow with interest.


Yes indeed, but does not aromatise in the conventional way.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

hilly said:


> after week 18 do you go back on cycle or have a certain amount of time off.
> 
> I like the idea of the cycle and have seen alot of very similar cycles off really big lads and highly competitive ones over on US boards. However they usually change compounds at the 6/8 week mark any reason you change at 4? have you tried different length blocks and found this works best?


After the 6 week break I would then decide what to do. I normally have no game plan, it really depends on my blood work that my physician does and what he suggests I do regarding time off.

Thus far apart from the odd raised liver value, I have remained incredibly healthy.

I like to change compounds earlier than some may, as I have found that I normally start to plateau at around week 4-5.

I have used steroids in varying doses for around 8 years now, this is the heaviest cycle I have ever done and so I wished to document it for you good people to see. Hopefully we can all learn from it.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Interesting stuff. Do you use insulin?


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## special k (Jul 26, 2009)

are you going to be covering food intake and training breakdowns in this thread?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

kingprop said:


> Interesting stuff. Do you use insulin?


I have done in the past but really only recommend it for hardgainers and typical ecto's or meso/ecto body types, that have crazy metabolisms.

I am a pretty standard meso and have no problem gaining or losing weight, so insulin for me is just another drug I dont feel I need.

Bottom line is you have to be lean to use insulin and get the greatest benefit from it, too fat and it will just be anabolic to that tissue...Fat (adipose) tissue.


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## gold95 (May 23, 2009)

what was the rest of ur leg workout???


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> I have done in the past but really only recommend it for hardgainers and typical ecto's or meso/ecto body types, that have crazy metabolisms.
> 
> I am a pretty standard meso and have no problem gaining or losing weight, so insulin for me is just another drug I dont feel I need.
> 
> Bottom line is you have to be lean to use insulin and get the greatest benefit from it, too fat and it will just be anabolic to that tissue...Fat (adipose) tissue.


i told people that and they thought i was just trying to hold them back:cool:


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

special k said:


> are you going to be covering food intake and training breakdowns in this thread?


No this is just purely from an AAS perspective. Here however is a rough guidline to what I am doing presently.

I eat around 3800-4000kcals daily spread over around 7 meals. Same carbs, same protein in every meal, even in my PWO shake.

My body works well on routine and when it knows what it's going to eat and when.

I train 5 days a week

Mon chest/tri's

Tues quads

Wed off

Thurs back/bi's

Fri shoulders

Sat hams/calves

Sun off

No cardio off season.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

gold95 said:


> what was the rest of ur leg workout???


Seated curls

Standing curls

Donkey raises

Seated raises

Standing raises

3 sets for each

Back was too pumped to finish standing curls tho!


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Good reading buddy.

What about the use of IGF ? and do only go up to 4iu of GH a day?


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

picsssssss


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Very interesting indeed.

Cycles are by no means heavy either which is encouraging.

Do you respond well to AAS in general would you say relative to other competitors?


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## miller25 (Apr 22, 2007)

I think it's best no pics, as the guy is trying to keep a low profile. I value the info more than the photo's any way.


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## Rudedog (Jan 14, 2009)

This will be an interesting read


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

miller25 said:


> I think it's best no pics, as the guy is trying to keep a low profile.* I value the info more than the photo's any way.*


Good point mate,still i value your pic though sexy man :lol:

Anyway back on topic....interesting reading !!


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## miller25 (Apr 22, 2007)

pea head said:


> Good point mate,still i value your pic though sexy man :lol:
> 
> Anyway back on topic....interesting reading !!


Sorry I'm not that way out


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

I believe your a Pro......What is contained in your PCT Protocol??


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Welcome to the board. It certainly makes good reading and is interesting. Best of all your cycle is nice and simple and laid out for us to see..

Can i ask though, i see yopur last four weeks is short acting compounds and also what could be considered as pre contest compounds....is this to aid in the prep' for the pct to get the long acting stuff out or is it a cycle you would also use prior to a show??

Would you do a different cycle for a competition or is this a cycle you repeat each and every time??

Appreciate your time to do this :thumbup1:


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Welcome to uk-m. Thanks for sharing. Have subscribed to the thread


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

this should be very interesting,lookng forward to following this 

Why do you change from sust to test enanth after 4 weeks tho?i know you said you like to switch compounds and can understand the switch from deca to tren but your just swapping one test for another with the sust/test e.


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

I will be following with intrest.Thanks for sharing and being honest...As for cycle its not a very large cycle for a person who's used gear for 8 years and is a pro..Is it you respond well to gear.....Do you use Peptides???????


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

pea head said:


> Good reading buddy.
> 
> What about the use of IGF ? and do only go up to 4iu of GH a day?


I have done IGF-1 in the past, the last time was around 18 months ago. It's one of those compounds that I see no effect from during its use (many may disagree), its more of a subtle compound you see effects from months later. I personally get a lot more 'noticeable' effects from GH. I am very sensitive to GH though and find that by splitting the dose A.M and P.M, I am able to manage the side effects a lot better. For me water retention is the first sign of too high a dose. This manifests itself in my hands primarily and is when I know the dose is too high.

2ius is my maximum dose at any one time above that the sides out weigh any benefits for me. At that dose it keeps my appetite good and keeps my bodyfat in check during the off season.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

LittleChris said:


> Very interesting indeed.
> 
> Cycles are by no means heavy either which is encouraging.
> 
> Do you respond well to AAS in general would you say relative to other competitors?


I would say yes. I responded in 2006 to a course for 7 weeks of just 600mgs weekly (total of inj and oral) by gaining nearly 26lbs!!!

As far as others, I tend not to compare myself but it IS a huge misconception that most pro's use mega doses. Most of my pro 'friends' will use little more than a gram of test a week and many just 750mgs. They will of course use other compounds alongside their test base, but still many recreational guys will take double that.

Genetic predisposition plays a huge part in how an individual responds. I am lucky, I guess, that's why this course will be interesting not only for you but also for me and will tell me difinitively whether or not higher doses are the way to go for me and my physique.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> I believe your a Pro......What is contained in your PCT Protocol??


The first thing that I will say is that PCT is such a personal thing. Many protocols are banded around and all make sense, however probably only around 1% actually get their blood work done after PCT to establish levels and even fewer would have had their baseline levels doen before they actually started steroid use.

I integrate HCG right throughout all of my courses and afterwards too, then I use a combination of raloxifene and tomorifene for the remaining 3 weeks. The grand daddy of all LH and FSH stimulators is HMG and is something I may use if I feel recovery is being hampered or I have used a very suppressive steroid such as deca or trenbolone or any of it's derivitives.

True recovery takes far longer than 6 weeks which is why its important to keep things ticking along throughout a cycle with HCG.

The best way to recover fully is to come off and stay off for 18 months and let the body reach some kind of new homeostasis on its own.

Think of your body as a pool of water and all these performance enhancers/recovery aids, as stones. When they are thrown in the ripples are confused and many. Given time these ripples will settle and calm will once again return.


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## gold95 (May 23, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> Seated curls
> 
> Standing curls
> 
> ...


me thinks me smells a troll, lol...

i guess all the 'pros' use the same cycle??? its the same 1 thats been on the forums for years now... but what do i know...

'a pool of water & aids like stones' :lol:

if i'm wrong, welcome


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

BRABUS said:


> Welcome to the board. It certainly makes good reading and is interesting. Best of all your cycle is nice and simple and laid out for us to see..
> 
> Can i ask though, i see yopur last four weeks is short acting compounds and also what could be considered as pre contest compounds....is this to aid in the prep' for the pct to get the long acting stuff out or is it a cycle you would also use prior to a show??
> 
> ...


Thankyou for your welcome.

Yes they are there to make the most of the last 3-4 weeks of a cycle. All those compounds in the last 4 weeks will take 3-7 days to leave my body and allow PCT to be started. It also means I am not waiting 3 weeks for the long esters to leave my body and means I can continue to make gains in the last few weeks of a cycle.

I would generally do a pre contest cycle for 12 weeks. 6-8 weeks of long acting and 4-6 weeks of short acting esters, depending on how I am looking.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

weeman said:


> this should be very interesting,lookng forward to following this
> 
> Why do you change from sust to test enanth after 4 weeks tho?i know you said you like to switch compounds and can understand the switch from deca to tren but your just swapping one test for another with the sust/test e.


Yes, you could just stick with sustenon but for me it can be a painful compound especially when injecting for 8 weeks.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

gold95 said:


> *me thinks me smells a troll, lol...*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


and why is this so disbelievable??

that post is a bit uncalled for to be honest.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

gold95 said:


> me thinks me smells a troll, lol...
> 
> i guess all the 'pros' use the same cycle??? its the same 1 thats been on the forums for years now... but what do i know...
> 
> ...


Thankyou for your welcome, I think.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

PRO1 said:


> Yes, you could just stick with sustenon but for me it can be a painful compound especially when injecting for 8 weeks.


aaaah right lol yes i find sust very painful too,be it pharma or UG,always give me very sore injection sites,i prefer to use the likes of enanth/cyp etc for the lack of pain too.

Why not just bin using sust altogether and just stick with the enanth? or is it a case of you have some there so may as well use it up lol


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

weeman said:


> aaaah right lol yes i find sust very painful too,be it pharma or UG,always give me very sore injection sites,i prefer to use the likes of enanth/cyp etc for the lack of pain too.
> 
> Why not just bin using sust altogether and just stick with the enanth? or is it a case of you have some there so may as well use it up lol


Indeed, but I actually like the effect of sustenon. If I could run for 8 weeks i'd rather run sustenon than enanthate.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

really? what benefits do you feel it gives you over the test enanth or the like?


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

Nice thread and welcome


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

weeman said:


> really? what benefits do you feel it gives you over the test enanth or the like?


I feel better on it. I have more energy and less lethargy.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

I would like to add, and perhaps should have stated earlier, that just because I am a pro athlete it doesn't mean that I suddenly become 'all knowing', and or information that is definitive that I personally give.

AAS useage is so individual. What works for one person can give very little if any, effect in somebody else. Also doses are not definitive. One dose for one athlete may be highly toxic for another.

Please think very carefully before using any drug and or performance enhancer and make sure that everything is in place to use responsibly with health and wellbeing top of your list of priorities.

Lecture over, sorry guys.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

PRO1 said:


> *True recovery takes far longer than 6 weeks which is why its important to keep things ticking along throughout a cycle with HCG. *
> 
> *The best way to recover fully is to come off and stay off for 18 months and let the body reach some kind of new homeostasis on its own*.
> 
> .


a very sensible approach and very true.....



gold95 said:


> me thinks me smells a troll, lol...
> 
> i guess all the 'pros' use the same cycle??? its the same 1 thats been on the forums for years now... but what do i know...
> 
> ...


if you can point me out where you feel he has shown himself to be a troll we will act.....i know a cpl of Pro's and they do not all use a maountain of every drug going all the time this is a believable cycle but is only a small part of the overall picture....


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

Gold95..your an idiot..The guy has come on here to share his knolage and you call him a trol....Your the trol budy...Simple minded...


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## Catsup007 (Dec 17, 2008)

Welcome. I have a question, do you run hcg through out your cycle, or do you use it as part of your pct protocol? Also, your pct is only 3 weeks long?


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## gold95 (May 23, 2009)

bkoz said:


> Gold95..your an idiot..The guy has come on here to share his knolage and you call him a trol....Your the trol budy...Simple minded...


sticks & stones, is that the best u can come up with, calling me names?

u might believe everything u get told i don't. i'm Dorian Yates do u believe that? (if u do uv got a real problem with trust)..


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

I can't believe any pro these days would do PCT unless wanting to conceive.


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## Virgo83 (Jul 19, 2009)

gold95 said:


> sticks & stones, is that the best u can come up with, calling me names?
> 
> u might believe everything u get told i don't. i'm Dorian Yates do u believe that? (if u do uv got a real problem with trust)..


What was the point in your first post?? It seems you just want to start arguments, most people on here are trying to gain knowledge to help them use AAS as safely as possible. Maybe you should take your pointless comments elsewhere mate.

Will be following this pro 1, welcome to the board :thumbup1:


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## GHS (Oct 6, 2008)

Great thread and will be following it closely 

GHS


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

gold95 said:


> sticks & stones, is that the best u can come up with, calling me names?
> 
> u might believe everything u get told i don't. i'm Dorian Yates do u believe that? (if u do uv got a real problem with trust)..


hiya Dorian can i have an autograph......on this blank cheque:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Catsup007 said:


> Welcome. I have a question, do you run hcg through out your cycle, or do you use it as part of your pct protocol? Also, your pct is only 3 weeks long?


I generally use it throughout but if I feel I have atrophied then I will add some in afterwards.

I'll be honest though, PCT is normally something that doesn't happen betwen cycles. Yes HCG therapy will be continued but normally (last year or instance) I stayed on all year, just varying the doses (went down to 250mgs every 7 days for 6 weeks at a time) between cycles.

This time I felt I would use the aforementioned PCT protocol and assess how I felt during that time as evergy levels can quickly drop. It's not for recovery, rather how I feel. I will probably find that 250mgs a week would be a better bet and be less toxic than any PCT protocol.

For me, as stated before, the only way to recover is to come off everything. By treating one problem by administering drugs to counteract it, you can end up in a cycle of continuous drug taking.

My competitive days will last no longer than (I would guess) another 5 years, after which time I will probably have to spend most of my time on TRT. I am resigned to that. I will then be in my mid 40's when test levels can be low anyway, let alone those of a steroid using individual who has been using for around 12 years.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

ba baracuss said:


> I can't believe any pro these days would do PCT unless wanting to conceive.


Yes, I completely agree with this statement. Some will do it to 'convince' themselves that they are recovering but many will just take time off but it will be time off everything. Some of my competing peers will come off for 2-3 months, cold turkey, after a show which to be fair is the only way to give the body a complete break. Many will not train and spend more time with their families and try to live 'normally' for a while.

Remember you only see us when we are near contest condition and those photos are used time and time again in the magazines. You dont see us in the bodybuilding press when we are 'off cycle' or out of shape, that just doesn't sell magazines.


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

Welcome mate, its really refreshing to read something so informative and honest. Brill read mate, thanks


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

yeah i saw a pic of shawn ray once years ago and i thought wtf, when was 18 i thought the ripped look was how you was supposed to look all the time, i had very low bf anyway so i felt great


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Khaos said:


> yeah i saw a pic of shawn ray once years ago and i thought wtf, when was 18 i thought the ripped look was how you was supposed to look all the time, i had very low bf anyway so i felt great


There are very few pro's that stay 'in shape' throughout the year. Toney is one of the only ones that doesn't blow up big time. I was chatting with Lee at the Olympia and he was sitting at around 245lbs. He will be competing next year at around 198-200lbs, so that's a lot of weight to come off. He has blown up to 270lbs before so at 245lbs he is in his words 'lean'!!!


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

big silver back said:


> Welcome mate, its really refreshing to read something so informative and honest. Brill read mate, thanks


Thankyou for your welcome. I hope you find what I have to say interesting.


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

do you clean bulk off season or are your main meals clean then cheat inbetween and just monitor week by week

you said you have about 5 years left competing what are your goals in them 5 years

also is there any other peptides you could comment on or even supplements that you have found to benefit yourself

and do you only use pharma grade steroids or you quiet happy to use alot of these multi bottles that are about these days

sorry for all the questions


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

glanzav said:


> do you clean bulk off season or are your main meals clean then cheat inbetween and just monitor week by week
> 
> you said you have about 5 years left competing what are your goals in them 5 years
> 
> ...


I eat the same year round but I only weight carbs in the off season.

Right now I am trying to gain around 14lbs in the next 12 weeks which will take me to around 220lbs.

I love my red meat off season and will try to eat it every day at least once. I will also give myself around 6oz of whole milk after each meal too.

I use very few supplements off season, only really whey and gatorade. I prefer to get all I need from whole foods including lots of fruit and vegetables.

I cheat when I want to and I feel the need to but because my diet is so varied, I crave very little, if anything. I cheat more for the social aspect and to spend some quality time with my family around the dinner table.

My only goals are to step onstage each year improved, its that simple. The rest is in the judges hands.

As far as my steroid use, yes I use pharma for the majority but for certain meds like trenbolone, I have to use UGL. This will be the first time I have used trenbolone for around 18 months, there is nothing in the world that will make you grow like test and trenbolone.

I haven't used a lot of peptides to be honest, the best way to grow is food and test, it really is that simple. Apart from GH which is a year round staple, I have only briefly used IGF and Insulin.


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> There are very few pro's that stay 'in shape' throughout the year. Toney is one of the only ones that doesn't blow up big time. I was chatting with Lee at the Olympia and he was sitting at around 245lbs. He will be competing next year at around 198-200lbs, so that's a lot of weight to come off. He has blown up to 270lbs before so at 245lbs he is in his words 'lean'!!!


You state you were chatting with Lee at the olympia..............were you competing?

Thanks

Rep


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

wikked i always wanted to know the cycles of a pro, this is some cool ****, i will follow it closely, ima rep u to


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## Catsup007 (Dec 17, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> I generally use it throughout but if I feel I have atrophied then I will add some in afterwards.
> 
> I'll be honest though, PCT is normally something that doesn't happen betwen cycles. Yes HCG therapy will be continued but normally (last year or instance) I stayed on all year, just varying the doses (went down to 250mgs every 7 days for 6 weeks at a time) between cycles.
> 
> ...


I see. Thanks for the honest responses mate, real good information here. Anyways, some more questions for you. You run your gh all year long correct? Does your dosing vary when competing and off season? Also do you run a low dose of test year long more like TRT or you run a heavier dosage and kind of pre-contest year long?


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

PRO1 said:


> I generally use it throughout but if I feel I have atrophied then I will add some in afterwards.
> 
> I'll be honest though, PCT is normally something that doesn't happen betwen cycles. Yes HCG therapy will be continued but normally (last year or instance) I stayed on all year, just varying the doses (went down to 250mgs every 7 days for 6 weeks at a time) between cycles.
> 
> ...


This has been my thinking for a while now as ive reached 40 years, have my children etc and don't/ can't have anymore. Im of the opinion its more toxic/harsher on the system to yo yo doing cycles and pct's. Ive also accepted as being on helps me fully enjoy all aspects of training and i feel better to, that i may be on trt in the later years.....so be it though..:cool:

after all as we get old and test level naturally lower and we cruise on small amounts is there any great need to come off if children arent an issue???


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

chilisi said:


> hi,
> 
> welcome.. thanks for taking time to input onto the board.
> 
> ...


i asked that two pages back,stop skipping to the end then posting :lol: :lol:


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

weeman said:


> i asked that two pages back,stop skipping to the end then posting :lol: :lol:


Your question was the shift from sust to enth - it never covered the deca to tren shift so stop being naughty


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## wes (May 28, 2006)

weeman said:


> i asked that two pages back,stop skipping to the end then posting :lol: :lol:





Uriel said:


> Your question was the shift from sust to enth - it never covered the deca to tren shift so stop being naughty


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Good thread PRO1. Welcome to the board.

From your posts do you believe that hcg is all you really need and that a typical PCT is worthless so are just experimenting with it for now


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Pro1 - you must have tried mega doses to have the knowledge that they are not for you, can you give us an examle of how big you went, the sides against the benefits and why you finally settled on a couple of gramms of total meds EW?


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## boddy4 (May 14, 2007)

Thanks for the read PRO1. Just a quick question, you dont use insulin and you said who you feel should use it, ie hard gainers. If taking it how would you recommend it be used, for example fast acting at breakfast and PWO, or just slow acting. How long run a course? anything you can offer please pal. Thanks for your time


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Catsup007 said:


> I see. Thanks for the honest responses mate, real good information here. Anyways, some more questions for you. You run your gh all year long correct? Does your dosing vary when competing and off season? Also do you run a low dose of test year long more like TRT or you run a heavier dosage and kind of pre-contest year long?


I run GH all year at between 2-4ius daily, any more than this and the side effects aren't worth the benefits for me.

For somebody like me that competes every year, its pointless coming off for any length of time. Yes, this time I am adding PCT in at the end (mainly due to use of trenbolone and I am yet to see how effective this is) but normally its a question of just easing off and cruising with 250mgs every week to ten days between cycles.

You have to ask yourself what is more harmful? Coming off and your test crashing and estrogen going through the roof or just stabilizing blood levels of test by using a small TRT dose? Of course it is far safer to use a TRT dose. High estrogen and low test levels are the cause of all kind of serious (and not so serious) side effects in the male organism. I was born a man so why feel like a women whilst off?

Like I said at the start, I get my bloods done by a physician every 6 months or so and apart from a few elevated enzymes after the use of certain orals I am healthy.

As long as the body has a break from higher levels of androgens at various times throughout the year, I personally see no problems staying on all year, unless as was stated before, you are looking to start a family. Then you may need a break of 6-18 months, unless of course you go down the route of IVF or sperm donors.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

BRABUS said:


> This has been my thinking for a while now as ive reached 40 years, have my children etc and don't/ can't have anymore. Im of the opinion its more toxic/harsher on the system to yo yo doing cycles and pct's. Ive also accepted as being on helps me fully enjoy all aspects of training and i feel better to, that i may be on trt in the later years.....so be it though..:cool:
> 
> after all as we get old and test level naturally lower and we cruise on small amounts is there any great need to come off if children arent an issue???


Indeed. My last post above will explain my reasoning.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

wes said:


> :laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Good thread PRO1. Welcome to the board.
> 
> From your posts do you believe that hcg is all you really need and that a typical PCT is worthless so are just experimenting with it for now


Yes, unless you are having fertility issues and are wishing to start a family. Then apart from considerable time off, other meds may have to be used for a few months including HMG, nolva/clomid and or raloxifene/tomorifene.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Uriel said:


> Pro1 - you must have tried mega doses to have the knowledge that they are not for you, can you give us an examle of how big you went, the sides against the benefits and why you finally settled on a couple of gramms of total meds EW?


I dont think I have ever said that mega doses are not for me? I have just never used mega doses and in fact, as I said at the start of this thread, my current course (listed at the start) is my highest to date.

I cant use higher dose orals as I just feel unwell and my appetite goes. For me this is pointless as without the food, you aren't going to grow. I like to feel hungry and hate feeling bloated and generally unwell.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

boddy4 said:


> Thanks for the read PRO1. Just a quick question, you dont use insulin and you said who you feel should use it, ie hard gainers. If taking it how would you recommend it be used, for example fast acting at breakfast and PWO, or just slow acting. How long run a course? anything you can offer please pal. Thanks for your time


My favoured time for insulin use would be right before breakfast. Fast acting insulin such as Novorapid is designed to be used with solid meals, not fast acting carbs such as glucose,WMS, Vitargo etc. I find fast acting insulin works well with a complex carb such as oatmeal and also fructose found in fruit.

The second best time would be PWO but not straight after training. I would use the body's own natural surge in insulin when you ingest a sugary carb source. I would prefer to use insulin prior to the PWO meal around 60-90 minutes after your shake/training.

As for doseage, i have seen great results in individuals from 5ius in each dose, much more than that (unless you are heavily muscled) is a waste and lets face it most hard gainers dont carry a huge amount of tissue.

Long acting insulin IMO has no place in BBing except in the hardest gainers and leanest of individuals. If you carry more than 8-10% forget it.


----------



## pea head (May 28, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> I dont think I have ever said that mega doses are not for me? I have just never used mega doses and in fact, as I said at the start of this thread, my current course (listed at the start) is my highest to date.
> 
> I cant use higher dose orals as I just feel unwell and my appetite goes. *For me this is pointless as without the food, you aren't going to grow*. I like to feel hungry and hate feeling bloated and generally unwell.


Great statment mate...and coming from a pro...lets hope the folk who think the gear is the answer will read this and start to listen!!!!

:thumbup1:


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## bigsteve1974 (Jun 4, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> Got to ask, why are you using strong aromatising orals like dbol with var and oxy with winny? i don't get it.
> 
> PS, welcome to the board.


this is a good question and i have seen recentley a CAPSULE which is 50mg of oxy and 25mg of winny all in one... and the people using seemt to be getting some very good results.... :confused1:

steve


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

i still cant see your reason to swap from sustanon to test e at 4 weeks, test is test and if it was because at this point the small benifits of the short esters in sus would have played there part if any in getting it in quicker you may as well stick with the sus surley?

deca would have been at a decent level in the body at 400mg weekly just at the time you stop using it, ran on workin for 3 more weeks yes but at this point i dont see the benifit either over say tren all the way through as tren would hit the blood stream quicker wouldnt it

just wondering thats all mr pro


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

bigsteve1974 said:


> this is a good question and i have seen recentley a CAPSULE which is 50mg of oxy and 25mg of winny all in one... and the people using seemt to be getting some very good results.... :confused1:
> 
> steve


Both Oxy and Winny are very effective orals (probably the 2 most effective) so combining the 2 makes sense. I would up the winny dose though to 50mgs daily and for larger individuals do 100mgs of both split into 3-4 doses in any 24 hour period.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

jjb1 said:


> i still cant see your reason to swap from sustanon to test e at 4 weeks, test is test and if it was because at this point the small benifits of the short esters in sus would have played there part if any in getting it in quicker you may as well stick with the sus surley?
> 
> deca would have been at a decent level in the body at 400mg weekly just at the time you stop using it, ran on workin for 3 more weeks yes but at this point i dont see the benifit either over say tren all the way through as tren would hit the blood stream quicker wouldnt it
> 
> just wondering thats all mr pro


You need to read the whole thread and your first question would be answered.

You also have to remember that any steroid will be effective as soon as it hits the body. It doesn't have the ability to think, 'right I've been in here for 4 weeks, let's start work!'

Deca starts working as soon as it's put in, it only manifests itself after 2 weeks or so.

I use it for my joints and its great nitrogen retention properties. These continue after the product is ceased and the trenbolone is started.

I also dont like to use tren for longer than 6-8 weeks as it shuts me down really hard.


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## boddy4 (May 14, 2007)

Thanks for you advice pal


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

PRO1 said:


> You need to read the whole thread and your first question would be answered.
> 
> You also have to remember that any steroid will be effective as soon as it hits the body. It doesn't have the ability to think, 'right I've been in here for 4 weeks, let's start work!'
> 
> ...


it was my understanding of the logic of aas that levels of the compound increase in the body over time

it may start quickly but it wont be at the level of 4 weeks later, the decanote ester is slow entering and releasing

im supprised we havent had random guesses at who you are....... 'its jay cutler!' 

anyways just interested :thumb:

are you a pro thats has done well and top placed at big shows?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

jjb1 said:


> it was my understanding of the logic of aas that levels of the compound increase in the body over time
> 
> it may start quickly but it wont be at the level of 4 weeks later, the decanote ester is slow entering and releasing
> 
> ...


If I were Jay Cutler I would have hardly said I was 206lbs when I started my current cycle, not unless both my legs have been removed since the 'O'.

Plus I'm not entering into 'guess the pro' questions. Reading my first post you will see that I said I wanted to keep my identity private and that's exactly what I intend doing.

As far as the deca, yes, the levels will build up over time due to the long half life of the compound. That still doesn't mean it wont be effective during the 4 weeks of its use and the 3 weeks after ceasing.


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

flex lewis baby,

Are you a full time pro in that i mean do you have another job so to speak besides bodybuilding?


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Need-valid-info said:


> flex lewis baby,
> 
> Are you a full time pro in that i mean do you have another job so to speak besides bodybuilding?


flex lewis is in his early twenties,the guy has stated he is already 40 or near it.

I think it would be nice if people didnt ruin this by asking questions on his personal life/who is he/whats his day job/whats his favourite colour,the guy is doing us all a favour by giving us an insight to what he personally does,wether anyone wants to believe it or not.

For me its one of the most interesting threads for a good while,wether i agree with his methods or not so far:laugh:


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## LukeVTS (Dec 7, 2008)

i would laugh my ass off if it turned out he was 16 years old n 9st!


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

word to ya mother


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Need-valid-info said:


> word to ya mother


 :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: wtf does that even mean?


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## Jacko89 (Mar 4, 2009)

Im loving following this, very interesting.

Im with weeman on this, this guy is here to tell us how he does everything as a pro. Lets not ruin it by asking questions about who he is even after he has said he wants to keep his identity private.

Keep the information coming


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

PRO1 said:


> If I were Jay Cutler I would have hardly said I was 206lbs when I started my current cycle, not unless both my legs have been removed since the 'O'.
> 
> Plus I'm not entering into 'guess the pro' questions. Reading my first post you will see that I said I wanted to keep my identity private and that's exactly what I intend doing.
> 
> As far as the deca, yes, the levels will build up over time due to the long half life of the compound. That still doesn't mean it wont be effective during the 4 weeks of its use and the 3 weeks after ceasing.


your not jay cutler ahhh shucks ! lol was a joke bro you'll get use to the bords humour soon :thumb:

all the best to you!


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## jock_071279 (May 24, 2007)

PRO1 said:


> The first thing that I will say is that PCT is such a personal thing. Many protocols are banded around and all make sense, however probably only around 1% actually get their blood work done after PCT to establish levels and even fewer would have had their baseline levels doen before they actually started steroid use.
> 
> I integrate HCG right throughout all of my courses and afterwards too, then I use a combination of raloxifene and tomorifene for the remaining 3 weeks. The grand daddy of all LH and FSH stimulators is HMG and is something I may use if I feel recovery is being hampered or I have used a very suppressive steroid such as deca or trenbolone or any of it's derivitives.
> 
> ...


Wow, Will follow this me thinks  ... a question though

What dosages do you run your HCG at? both during and at the end? and do you run an AI along side ?

Thanks,

Jock


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## The_Wolverine (May 16, 2009)

weeman said:


> :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: wtf does that even mean?


 :lol: :lol:... according to the urban dictionary it means one of the below..

1) I fully agree with you, you nicely brought up fellow

2) Say hellow to your sexy milf

*3) I'm a white boy in need of a cool sounding motto. *

im guessing number 3!!! :tongue:

interesting read so far MR.Pro!!! :thumbup1:


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Need-valid-info said:


> flex lewis baby,
> 
> Are you a full time pro in that i mean do you have another job so to speak besides bodybuilding?


I am fortunate to earn my living from bodybuilding and you guys, the fans, are what makes the sport what it is.........A previlage.

You read the mags, buy the supplements, watch and support the shows etc. All these things that you guys do mean I can do what I love every single day.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

What are you expecting in the way of results from the proposed cycle?

Would you say you are well past you're genetic/natural potential?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

jock_071279 said:


> Wow, Will follow this me thinks  ... a question though
> 
> What dosages do you run your HCG at? both during and at the end? and do you run an AI along side ?
> 
> ...


Normally throughout a cycle I will run 3-500ius every 3-4 days depending on the dose of cycle. If I use any after I will use around 500ius every other day for 2-3 weeks or until I feel testicular size is where it needs to be.

If I do PCT I will either use Clomid and Nolva or Raloxifene and Tomorifene. The later have far less sides than Clomid and Nolva.

My preferred drug post cycle is HMG though, if I feel really shut down. Nothing gets your LH and FSH moving like that stuff. I would typically use 75ius every other day for around 4 weeks.

Like I said PCT is rare for me, I see no point in it. I am not trying to recover. Once my competitive days are over I will then address the issues and if that means a lifetime on TRT then so be it. Its a small price to pay for the life I have and am living.

All the time my health is not comprimised I will continue doing what I do. If my health suffered then I would stop tomorrow. I do have other interests away from bodybuilding and so does my wife and those would see me and my family financially secure.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> What are you expecting in the way of results from the proposed cycle?
> 
> Would you say you are well past you're genetic/natural potential?


I am looking to gain around 14lbs from this 12 week cycle. Of course I am past my 'natural' potential, as for my genetic 'assisted' potential, hell no!!


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

PRO1 said:


> I am looking to gain around 14lbs from this 12 week cycle. Of course I am past my 'natural' potential, as for my genetic 'assisted' potential, hell no!!


I see, just curious as i'm lucky if i can gain 7lb a year these days and thats on doses a tad higher than you are using.

Maybe it's my age and the fact that i have been cruising since my early 40's.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

I am now 1 week into my cycle and am weighing 212lbs, so up around 6lbs this week.

This is generally how things go with me, a large increase in week 1 which then settles down, week 2.

My lower back is very pumped all the time now and my hamstrings and calves (especially my soleus) are really sore from saturdays workout.

I trained chest today and was the strongest I have been for around 18 months, so everything so far is going as planned, if not better.


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## Damo86 (Aug 7, 2009)

Pro1 this was an excellent read and thank you for the valuable info.


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

By far the best read in a long time, i dont care what pro you are! (good luck and all the best to you) just keep the info coming mate. Thanks for taking the time to do this for us all


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## BenM (Sep 12, 2009)

Really interesting read. Thanks.


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## acer72 (Sep 3, 2008)

PRO1 like to see what your diet is like? Also you use any supplements?

Also when you deit for a show you take T3, DNP, Clen what dosages?


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

am just glad somebody is here telling it as it is, those who have used gear for a long time and really know what they're doing will know PRO1 is legit, knowing how to use a drug is always better than just taking it and hoping for the best, i did things which most people thought wouldn't work and well the proof was in the pudding:thumb:


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## Catsup007 (Dec 17, 2008)

Great read Pro1. I was wondering as well why the switch from deca to tren, and now that you cleared that out it makes perfect sense. I still have some more questions though. How do you usually use your gh? In the morning, in between meals? Also, wanted to know what is your opinion on metformin?


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

Hope this does'nt sound rood???But how old are you...And how long have you had your pro card???


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## mick_the_brick (Oct 29, 2008)

Welcome to the board..

and thanks for sharing


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

bkoz said:


> Hope this does'nt sound rood???But how old are you...And how long have you had your pro card???


i think he said hes around 40 yrs old

great post PRO1, do you think we use and depend to much on AAS HGH? and not on good diet training rest etc?

it seems alot of ppl just use copious amounts of **** without really considering the damage they may be doing to there bodies, im a little sceptic and afraid to use igf and the newer research peptides available today, what is youre opinion on igf and other research drugs?

would you use them at any stage during the year

thanks again


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

thanks for reply, and whichever cnuts that negged me suck my dick, if the question was that intrusive he wouldnt have answered it


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

acer72 said:


> PRO1 like to see what your diet is like? Also you use any supplements?
> 
> Also when you deit for a show you take T3, DNP, Clen what dosages?


I try to eat 7 meals a day.

I shoot for around 50g of carbs with each meal and around 45-50g of protein with each meal. I add macadamia nut oil to all my solid meals, probably around 10g per meal. I find this the best oil, superior to olive and flax.

Kcals work out to around 3500-3750 a day on average with a couple of cheats a week if i feel I need them.

I use ephedra, t3 and clen whilst dieting. T3 goes up to around 50mcgs daily and clen up to around 100-120mcgs daily.

I have never felt the need to try something that cooks me from the inside out so DNP is a no no.

My diet is very similar pre contest, I just start adding in cardio from 16 weeks out and my cheats go down to 1 a week.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Catsup007 said:


> Great read Pro1. I was wondering as well why the switch from deca to tren, and now that you cleared that out it makes perfect sense. I still have some more questions though. How do you usually use your gh? In the morning, in between meals? Also, wanted to know what is your opinion on metformin?


I use GH twice daily in the off season, once prior to my first meal and the second dose around 8-9pm. I normally go to bed at around 11pm so I find that once my deep sleep starts (at around 12-2am) the exogenous GH is out of my system and my natural GH can still be released.

Never used metformin so cant give you my thoughts on it.


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

Great thread :thumbup1:


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

lostwars said:


> i think he said hes around 40 yrs old
> 
> great post PRO1, do you think we use and depend to much on AAS HGH? and not on good diet training rest etc?
> 
> ...


We all depend on AAS and GH, that's just life; without them I wouldn't be a pro. HOWEVER, yes they are just part of the intricate puzzle that makes a show winning and world class physique. For me diet is number 1 and always will be.

Most pro's are fairly concious of their health and have regular blood work done. Their lives and livelihoods depend on them being in shape and remaining healthy.

My opinion on IGF, MGF etc is mixed. Give me AAS, GH and a good wholesome diet any day of the week. Plus AAS and GH have had a number of human studies carried out where as peptides are generally just researched in a test tube and not the human organism. I am sure there will be more human studies carried out in the next few years but as most things in bodybuilding, anecdotal evidence is all most athletes need to give something a try.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Flex Factor said:


> What about usage levels and timings in the lead up to a competition mate?
> 
> Quality read by the way. :thumbup1:


Pre contest I use just 2-3ius prior to my morning cardio. I also use it sub-cutaneously. I seem find better fat burning properties (especially locally) when done this way as opposed to I.M administration. I am sensitive to GH and find that higher doses will hold a tremendous amount of water on, and in, my physique, hence just a small amount is used.


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

thats awesom you can earn a living for what you love to do,

what positive do you feel/find from the testosterones you use? things like well being, endurance etc...

What positives do you feel/find from the GH you use? things like improved skin texture, fat loss etc...


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> I try to eat 7 meals a day.
> 
> I shoot for around 50g of carbs with each meal and around 45-50g of protein with each meal. I add macadamia nut oil to all my solid meals, probably around 10g per meal. I find this the best oil, superior to olive and flax.
> 
> ...


Regarding diet in the off season and pre contest i suppose. do you use a carb cut off or does each meal leading right upto pre bed have 40-50g carbs in.

if so what types of carbs do you use am/pm and before bed etc.

Also do you eat much red meat?

great thread mate and a very good insight for us younger lads trying to progress.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Need-valid-info said:


> thats awesom you can earn a living for what you love to do,
> 
> what positive do you feel/find from the testosterones you use? things like well being, endurance etc...
> 
> What positives do you feel/find from the GH you use? things like improved skin texture, fat loss etc...


I feel great on test. Test is king no matter what anyone says; it's what makes us men.

Recovery is probably the one of the best quality as well as the obvious; muscle size and density. The body works well with test, even in high doses and is able to metabolise a lot more than people realise without too many issues. I have never had any bad sides from test, only good.

Probably number one is libido though. Feeling like i did when i was 16 and being nearly 40 is not something to sniff at.

I get tremendous volumisation from GH, as much as 5-7lbs within the first week of use. I also get very noticeable fat loss when injected locally sub cutaneously. Skin texture becomes softer and smoother but to be fair I have always had good skin and never ever suffered from spots or blemishes, on or off cycle. This I put more down to diet and my use of a lot of healthy fats daily. I also get tremendous pumps from GH use but a down side for me is I do get some joint pain in my elbows, even on 2ius daily.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Flex Factor said:


> Cheers mate - has these level of use always been the case (i.e. 4 ius per day) or have you dropped it as you physique has developed and muscle mass grown?


I have used as much as 8ius daily on a rebound for about 6 weeks after a show but the sides were horrendous. GH is best taken little and often in my humble opinion and if you can afford it, buy pharma every time.


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

awesome, do you find the steroids/gh enable you to train harder? E.g. give you more grunt/aggression in the gym


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## stonecoldzero (Aug 30, 2009)

Pro1 -

Post much appreciated. Thanks for the time and insight.

Gotta ask, though (seeing as I opened my big mouth about it somewhere else)

- How is it possible that subcu hgh can cause localized fat loss?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

hilly said:


> Regarding diet in the off season and pre contest i suppose. do you use a carb cut off or does each meal leading right upto pre bed have 40-50g carbs in.
> 
> if so what types of carbs do you use am/pm and before bed etc.
> 
> ...


Yes every meal has carbs in but as the show gets closer the carbs come out later in the day depending on how things progress.

I use oats, sweet potato, white potato, bread, rice and vitargo as my staple carbs. Always oats for breakfast!!

Yes I love red meat and eat it at least once a day but like everything nice, it goes in the latter stages of the diet.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Need-valid-info said:


> awesome, do you find the steroids/gh enable you to train harder? E.g. give you more grunt/aggression in the gym


Without a doubt, you are bigger, stronger and feel like superman, plus when you are on cycle, mentally it makes you work harder (placebo effect). I am not aggressive by nature so dont really notice any increased aggression. If anything I feel calmer and more tolerant when on cycle.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

stonecoldzero said:


> Pro1 -
> 
> Post much appreciated. Thanks for the time and insight.
> 
> ...


Google search it and it will tell you the mechanism but if you have stubborn fat in localised areas/pockets, shoot your GH there and it will disperse over time, trust me. Favoured places for me are around the umbillical, kidneys and glute/ham tie ins.


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

PRO1 said:


> Google search it and it will tell you the mechanism but if you have stubborn fat in localised areas/pockets, shoot your GH there and it will disperse over time, trust me. Favoured places for me are around the umbillical, kidneys and glute/ham tie ins.


This is very interesting and the first time I have heard it.

I have never used Growth but it's something considered due to tearing my distal bicep tendon.. I believe it would be beneficial for this and obviously the other aspects..

If Growth can disperse fat in localised areas, can it disperse adpiose tissue in the chest from gyno?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Littleluke said:


> This is very interesting and the first time I have heard it.
> 
> I have never used Growth but it's something considered due to tearing my distal bicep tendon.. I believe it would be beneficial for this and obviously the other aspects..
> 
> If Growth can disperse fat in localised areas, can it disperse adpiose tissue in the chest from gyno?


GH is great for connective tissue, so yes, it would definately help the recovery and repair of such a tear.

You'd be a braver man than me injecting your nipple! I have heard of cases of GH induced gyno too, obviously via a different mechanism to estro gyno from aromatisation.


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## The_Wolverine (May 16, 2009)

stonecoldzero said:


> Pro1 -
> 
> Post much appreciated. Thanks for the time and insight.
> 
> ...


you may be proven wrong then!!!.. ha..

im very curious about this at the moment, iv just started a poll in the muscle research section asking how many people have got localized fat loss from growth,. not had much response as yet!

but people seem to think it doesnt... but would like some more input!

so pro1, if you have some stubborn fat let say lower abs.. would you just sub-q in the same areas every day til you see it going??

or would you subq lower left,.. next day lower right,.. next day upper right etc???

and how long before you see results??


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Pro1, Really appreciate your knowledge and insight....its very obvious you kno your stuff and are speaking from personal experience which is fantastic.

One question i have though since GH has been the topic for a few posts....GHRP6 seems to be getting quite popular lately. I don't know if youve usd it but whats your views on it mate since its meant to be, and some will swear, that its better the exo GH as it makes/encourages your body to produce more of your own..

Figure's mentioned are that 100mcg of ghrp6 is in the region of 5iu's of exo GH??


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

So you`re 204lb, hoping to rise up to 220lb, British, was at the O and you`re a pro who competes in the IFBB and you`re 40 ish...

You must be short, 5`4? Whats you`re competitive goals now you`ve turned 40? You hoping to improve your recent placing? lol


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

God said:


> He has already stated he doesn't want to disclose his identity inspector clueso


I`m not saying any names.. Good thread anyway, nice to see someone being honest and frank and telling people like it is. Good luck in the future!


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Welcome Pro1, thanks for picking UK-M to share this with, fascinating thread.

Some good questions by a lot of people but alas, can I apologise for the few dummy's we

have here:rolleyes: You know who you are

Good Luck with the cycle Pro1, not that it seems your going to need it :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2009)

Just wanted to say i have been reading this with interest. It is funny how people assume that the pro's take so many drugs. These are usually the same people that have no idea how to train or eat correctly and then spend all weekend drunk lol.


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## Themanabolic (Jun 25, 2009)

enjoying this ! keep it up


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Con said:


> Just wanted to say i have been reading this with interest. It is funny how people assume that the pro's take so many drugs. These are usually the same people that have no idea how to train or eat correctly and then spend all weekend drunk lol.


What is to say they don't? :confused1:

This one may be in the minority for all we know.

Great read nonetheless.


----------



## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

wat sides where you getting on 8iu of hgh

can we ask what hgh you manage to get your hands on


----------



## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

LittleChris said:


> What is to say they don't? :confused1:
> 
> This one may be in the minority for all we know.
> 
> Great read nonetheless.


I would imagine this is nearer the bottom end of AAS use for a pro. I heard Ruhl takes 7g test per week. There is stories of pros using 100iu slin a day and 30iu of growth. Believe what you will. There is no doubt some of this craziness does go on.

Lee Priest only uses 200mg primobolan a week so some pros just dont need a lot. :laugh:


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

it does help to have that genetic gift

which 90% of us dont seem to have i no older guys that competited in there days now barely do nothing and im ashamed to stand next to them unless thats just me being messed up in the head

roll on myostatin


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Con said:


> Just wanted to say i have been reading this with interest. It is funny how people assume that the pro's take so many drugs. These are usually the same people that have no idea how to train or eat correctly and then spend all weekend drunk lol.


Thats not funny:lol: , i think it's probably a well founded assumption, all the mass monsters take sh1t loads of gear, you know as well as i, if you want huge, you have to take a lot more than a couple of G's of gear a week.


----------



## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

exactly, u think cutler or any of the top guy only taking 1g a week no way


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

Bump that.I'm not gonna mention names as its not my mate.Its my friends coach from poland right now he's 236pounds and takes 3g test week and fanomimil amounts of other gear next to that.This pro1 just does it his way that works for him.and responds well to aas and gh.there is a polish world champ lady on 16iu ed gh no bull ****..all though does'nt stay on it to long.the way they see it is when you tAKE gh and blow up with water dont reduce because thats the most time to be shutling nutrients and the anabolic time..these are not my thoughts just what i've been told from the people's coach and there really good friends aswell so he would'nt be telling him porky pie's...


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

Some-one asked pro1 that can gh reduce adipose tisue in gyno.My friend has done this with succes!!!!But and i mean but his gyno was'nt full blown man boobs,,


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

gold95 said:


> me thinks me smells a troll, lol...
> 
> i guess all the 'pros' use the same cycle??? its the same 1 thats been on the forums for years now... but what do i know...
> 
> ...


tbh the 3800-4000 kcals was the only thing that made me think....ay? but apart from from that looks good will be reading this one!

PRO1- welcome buddy


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

The_Wolverine said:


> you may be proven wrong then!!!.. ha..
> 
> im very curious about this at the moment, iv just started a poll in the muscle research section asking how many people have got localized fat loss from growth,. not had much response as yet!
> 
> ...


I just alternate right and left. I notice the fat getting softer after a week or so and then skin folds start decreasing after around 10 days. Remember this is just in me, it may be different for others.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

BRABUS said:


> Pro1, Really appreciate your knowledge and insight....its very obvious you kno your stuff and are speaking from personal experience which is fantastic.
> 
> One question i have though since GH has been the topic for a few posts....GHRP6 seems to be getting quite popular lately. I don't know if youve usd it but whats your views on it mate since its meant to be, and some will swear, that its better the exo GH as it makes/encourages your body to produce more of your own..
> 
> Figure's mentioned are that 100mcg of ghrp6 is in the region of 5iu's of exo GH??


I have heard some good things about this peptide but I guess I see it like anything else that makes your body produce more of something.

Look at it this way. If you assimilate sugary drinks or foods then you will encourage your body to produce insulin which over an extended period of time could result in type II diabetes. Use exogenous insulin and in my opinion you protect your own body from such an event and burning out your own pancreas.

I see the same potentially happening with this peptide and its effect over time on the pertuitary gland. Just my own thoughts.

I may be way off but at the moment there are more studies on GH and I dont know many, if any at all, that say low dose GH use will effect long term efficiency off the pertuitary gland.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

glanzav said:


> wat sides where you getting on 8iu of hgh
> 
> can we ask what hgh you manage to get your hands on


I get very swollen hands with severe pins and needles and numbness (basically severe carpal tunnel) I also hold a tremendous amount of fluid.

I use either Norditropin Simplexx (45/30iu pens) or Nutropin AQ (30iu pens). Both are very easy to use as both are pre mixed.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> tbh the 3800-4000 kcals was the only thing that made me think....ay? but apart from from that looks good will be reading this one!
> 
> PRO1- welcome buddy


When all the kcals coming in are clean, its actually a lot of food to chow down.

Remember I'm not a big pro (around 210lbs) and I dont need to eat like one. An excess of 2-500kcals daily above maintainance will cause you to grow well and not put on any unwanted adipose tissue.

This is the biggest mistake guys make. They think they need more and more food and will eat whatever they can in order to get the kcals in.

For me eating the same food on my diet as my off season but without my daily cardio, means I can grow plus keep my metaboism and digestive tract healthy.


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## Eggo26 (Mar 17, 2009)

Hello PRO1, first thing i want to thank you for the great info u are willing to share with us! Second i want to ask you few questions.

I have done two cycles test-e 500 mg only a week. First weeks my libido was to the roof but after the third week it was really bad. Have you ever experienced this problem if yes how do u cope with it?

I decided to quit with everything but i am still struggling with the recovery phase. i have done 5 weeks of clomid and nolva after the cycle. I think testo shut me down big times. ( i don't even want to imagine what trenbolone would be to my system  ). What is a common pct for a professional body bulder? (i know you prefer to stay on all the time but for sure there is a common pct you would follow). can you please tell us mg and length of the pct!

Cheers


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> When all the kcals coming in are clean, its actually a lot of food to chow down.
> 
> Remember I'm not a big pro (around 210lbs) and I dont need to eat like one. An excess of 2-500kcals daily above maintainance will cause you to grow well and not put on any unwanted adipose tissue.


a KG of Muscle contains 4000 Kcal (protein), it obviously takes more energy to manufacture and assimilate it through biological responses (i don't know how many.....another 1000 kcal, 2?) If you only eat 200 cal over maintenance - it's going to take a while to bang a few KG on:confused1:

Saying that, I'm fat lol


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

awesome thread.... thank you for sharing


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## ares1 (Apr 27, 2008)

Uriel said:


> a KG of Muscle contains 4000 Kcal (protein), it obviously takes more energy to manufacture and assimilate it through biological responses (i don't know how many.....another 1000 kcal, 2?) If you only eat 200 cal over maintenance - it's going to take a while to bang a few KG on:confused1:
> 
> Saying that, I'm fat lol


yeah but realistically there is only so much muscle you can put on in a short space of time without risking health etc...

if you think about it 1kg is actually quite a lot - its hard to visualise the difference 1kg would make to a physique but if you take a kilo of mince and imagine putting that ammount of muscle on, it is actually quite a bit especially if its lean muscle.

Thanks for sharing youre infor PRO1 :beer:


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

CarbWhore said:


> if you think about it 1kg is actually quite a lot - its hard to visualise the difference 1kg would make to a physique but if you take a kilo of mince and imagine putting that ammount of muscle on, it is actually quite a bit especially if its lean muscle.
> 
> Thanks for sharing youre infor PRO1 :beer:


Kind of flys in the face of 1st time cycles of 500 mg EW for 10 weeks banging on 15 lbs (which is why it's all water and fat) I guess


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> ...An excess of 2-500kcals daily above maintainance will cause you to grow well and not put on any unwanted adipose tissue.
> 
> This is the biggest mistake guys make. They think they need more and more food and will eat whatever they can in order to get the kcals in...


Thanks so much for this, PRO1! It chimes exactly with a thread I started.

Subscribed to this thread and following your posts with relish!

Patrick


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## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

top thread mate... you said earlier yuy would rather use Raloxifene and Tomorifene than clomid and nova....never heard of the stuff..... why is this better?

ps welcome...sure your reps will go throught he roof.


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## nibbsey (Feb 12, 2008)

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us and welcome to the board.

Now, with that outa the way. Please, all of those who have got nothing to say thats constructive in any way keep your hands in your pocket and don't type what you're thinking. You make yourself look like a cvnt and puts people like PRO1 off coming here and sharing his knowledge with us. If you don't believe what he is saying, then don't act on it. But equally let other people make their own minds up.

I for one don't subscribe to the line that if you want to be huge you've gotta take $hit loads off gear. Coz i am huge and i don't. Bodybuilding is the sum of all its parts and gear is just one of them parts. Diet, consistency and tenacity oh and you gatta train hard also.

Rant over!

Question time: As you've said PRO1 earlier, you don't use PCT all that much. Do you then follow the Cruise & Blast scenario (Cruising on the 250mg TRT dose) and is that in your opinion the way that most of the pro's do it?


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

PRO1 said:


> GH is great for connective tissue, so yes, it would definately help the recovery and repair of such a tear.
> 
> You'd be a braver man than me injecting your nipple! I have heard of cases of GH induced gyno too, obviously via a different mechanism to estro gyno from aromatisation.


Thanks for the response mate.

Great to have you on the board.

Luke


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

nibbsey said:


> Great thread, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us and welcome to the board.
> 
> Now, with that outa the way. Please, all of those who have got nothing to say thats constructive in any way keep your hands in your pocket and don't type what you're thinking. You make yourself look like a cvnt and puts people like PRO1 off coming here and sharing his knowledge with us. If you don't believe what he is saying, then don't act on it. But equally let other people make their own minds up.
> 
> ...


Great post mate. Totally agree. Reps your way.

You msged me recently about my arm and I never replied due to manic times LOL. I'll be making a thread soon but all is very good!

Sorry to Hijack!

Back to the thread.

Pro1.. What's your opinion on someone of my age using growth. As I mentioned I have torn my arm therefore I see a key benefit in that respect. I am 22 years old.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Eggo26 said:


> Hello PRO1, first thing i want to thank you for the great info u are willing to share with us! Second i want to ask you few questions.
> 
> I have done two cycles test-e 500 mg only a week. First weeks my libido was to the roof but after the third week it was really bad. Have you ever experienced this problem if yes how do u cope with it?
> 
> ...


I have never had this problem but my guess is that you weren't using HCG through your cycle?

Add in 3-500ius every 3rd day from the second week of your next cycle and see if that makes any difference.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

KINGKONG24 said:


> top thread mate... you said earlier yuy would rather use Raloxifene and Tomorifene than clomid and nova....never heard of the stuff..... why is this better?
> 
> ps welcome...sure your reps will go throught he roof.


They are kind of 'new generation' SERMS and have fewer side effects. 20-40mgs of both in combination, do wonders.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Hi Pro1, have you/colleagues had any experience with naltrexone, its an alternative to HCG?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

nibbsey said:


> Great thread, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us and welcome to the board.
> 
> Now, with that outa the way. Please, all of those who have got nothing to say thats constructive in any way keep your hands in your pocket and don't type what you're thinking. You make yourself look like a cvnt and puts people like PRO1 off coming here and sharing his knowledge with us. If you don't believe what he is saying, then don't act on it. But equally let other people make their own minds up.
> 
> ...


Yes, I will cruise for around 6 weeks between cycles. Most guys do the same except after the end of year shows such as the Olympia, where many will take a couple of months completely off after the photo shoots are done and just hide away with their families, train infrequently and chill.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Littleluke said:


> Great post mate. Totally agree. Reps your way.
> 
> You msged me recently about my arm and I never replied due to manic times LOL. I'll be making a thread soon but all is very good!
> 
> ...


You are still young and to be honest too young to be taking AAS. However I understand that we dont live in an ideal world and that young guys and juniors want to progress in the sport of bodybuilding. I always try to encourage everyone to reach their genetic potential naturally before stepping over.

I didn't start using AAS until I was 26 and started using GH at around 30. I trained for around 8 years naturally until then finally realising that I had actually reached my natural genetic limit.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> Hi Pro1, have you/colleagues had any experience with naltrexone, its an alternative to HCG?


I have heard of this drug in the last 18 months but I have never personally used it or had the need to.


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## GHS (Oct 6, 2008)

Great thread PRO.

What are your thoughts on metformin?

GHS


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

after a show, do you run rebounds or come off?

if you do a rebound, what does your rebound cycles usually consist of?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> *When all the kcals coming in are clean, its* *actually a lot of food to chow down.*
> 
> Remember I'm not a big pro (around 210lbs) and I dont need to eat like one. An excess of 2-500kcals daily above maintainance will cause you to grow well and not put on any unwanted adipose tissue.
> 
> ...


yes i get that, i know its a lot of food but at the end of the day it is still only 4000kcals. i know that the body will put the good cals to better use then the bad ones but it still is not a lot of cals.

could you post up an average days diet (training and non) just so i can get an idea of the amount of food you are consuming?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

GHS said:


> Great thread PRO.
> 
> What are your thoughts on metformin?
> 
> GHS


Thankyou.

I answered this a few pages back. I have never used it.

Surely it would be better to use insulin. Insulin is a very safe drug, millions use it world wide. You just have to know how to use it correctly and sensibly.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Incredible Bulk said:


> after a show, do you run rebounds or come off?
> 
> if you do a rebound, what does your rebound cycles usually consist of?


Generally I just come off, however, if I run a rebound I do so around 3-4 weeks after the show, not straight afterwards.

The first 4 weeks the body makes tremendous gains naturally from the length of time on restricted kcals and also the residual mixture of AAS circulating in the system.

I would use the same as I would use off season so a mixture of test, deca and probably oral winstrol or dianabol. I seem to get on great with winstrol.

I dont use short acting esters in a rebound as I have used these for the last 6 weeks of my prep and it literally becomes a pain shooting day in day out. This way I can shoot just twice a week.

So its not really a rebound course, more of a post rebound course!


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

God said:


> How much more muscle mass have you added from when you were at your peak as a natural?


Nearly 50lbs I would guess.


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## Van (May 22, 2009)

nibbsey said:


> Great thread, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us and welcome to the board.
> 
> Now, with that outa the way. Please, all of those who have got nothing to say thats constructive in any way keep your hands in your pocket and don't type what you're thinking. You make yourself look like a cvnt and puts people like PRO1 off coming here and sharing his knowledge with us. If you don't believe what he is saying, then don't act on it. But equally let other people make their own minds up.
> 
> ...


He said earlyer he does low doses 7-10 days and thats the way he does it other come off and on but he doesnt see the point etc

should of kept your hands in your pocket... JK matey! :lol:


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> yes i get that, i know its a lot of food but at the end of the day it is still only 4000kcals. i know that the body will put the good cals to better use then the bad ones but it still is not a lot of cals.
> 
> could you post up an average days diet (training and non) just so i can get an idea of the amount of food you are consuming?


This was never intended to be a nutritional thread but I may well start one after this one in the relavant section.

Like I said in a previous post, 7 meals of around 50g of carbs/protein per meal and around 10g of added fats per meal. Carb sources are oats, white and sweet potato, rice (white), vitargo, fruit and protein from whey, eggs, milk, chicken, steak, fish and nuts. Added fats just from macadamia oil (as well as the fats naturally occurring in the foods given prior)


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> Nearly 50lbs I would guess.


SO at 26 u were less than 180lb or am i getting my numbers wrong?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

hilly said:


> SO at 26 u were less than 180lb or am i getting my numbers wrong?


Around 160lbs, I am around 210 now.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2009)

Sorry for this post Pro1 just wanted to reply to a few people.



LittleChris said:


> What is to say they don't? :confused1:
> 
> This one may be in the minority for all we know.
> 
> Great read nonetheless.


Perhaps but one thing i am sure of. The guys who have a very long career will be taking a lot less than the guys that crash and burn after a few years on the pro circuit.



MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> I would imagine this is nearer the bottom end of AAS use for a pro. I heard Ruhl takes 7g test per week. There is stories of pros using 100iu slin a day and 30iu of growth. Believe what you will. There is no doubt some of this craziness does go on.
> 
> Lee Priest only uses 200mg primobolan a week so some pros just dont need a lot. :laugh:


It is funny all the things we "hear" from a "mate of a mate":lol:



mars1960 said:


> Thats not funny:lol: , i think it's probably a well founded assumption, all the mass monsters take sh1t loads of gear, you know as well as i, if you want huge, you have to take a lot more than a couple of G's of gear a week.


True mate but its a nice wake up call for some guys on here. After all bodybuilding is NOT all about size. Look at James. L he used to put his cycles up for a while and they were even less than Pro1s and he ended up winning his pro card by actually losing size.

Right now a question for PRO1 if you don't mind. Have you tried various training routines such as the Heavy Duty/DC/whatever or have you always stuck to the same kind of routine?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> *This was never intended to be a nutritional thread but I may well start one after this one in the relavant section*.
> 
> Like I said in a previous post, 7 meals of around 50g of carbs/protein per meal and around 10g of added fats per meal. Carb sources are oats, white and sweet potato, rice (white), vitargo, fruit and protein from whey, eggs, milk, chicken, steak, fish and nuts. Added fats just from macadamia oil (as well as the fats naturally occurring in the foods given prior)


*pleas do* i find the nutritional aspect fascinating as it is some thing that can be forever improved as no one will ever get it 100% spot on. plus i think that there is too much of an emphasis on steroid use and nutrition comes 2nd in most cases. a training log would also be great!i doubt you will have the time for all of this and what you are doing atm is greatly appreciated!


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## nibbsey (Feb 12, 2008)

Van said:


> He said earlyer he does low doses 7-10 days and thats the way he does it other come off and on but he doesnt see the point etc
> 
> should of kept your hands in your pocket... JK matey! :lol:


 What are you trying to say MATEY?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Con said:


> Sorry for this post Pro1 just wanted to reply to a few people.
> 
> Perhaps but one thing i am sure of. The guys who have a very long career will be taking a lot less than the guys that crash and burn after a few years on the pro circuit.
> 
> ...


Good points there. There will always be cynics in this sport. There are those that use huge amounts of drugs but then there are many more that use very modest amounts and yes these are the guys that compete year in year out and remain very healthy.

As far as my training, I am fortunate in that most styles do work for me but I am a fan of volume in the lower body and more HIT for upper body. I train very instinctively now.

I change my training frequently to add different dimensions to my training and work rate. At the moment I am training at a fast tempo with around 60-90 seconds rest between sets. The guy I train with is very strong and has incredible recovery, so for me it means I have to raise the bar and take it to another level.

This level of intensity alongside my slightly higher anabolic support, should yield some great results.


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## Van (May 22, 2009)

nibbsey said:


> What are you trying to say MATEY?


You were having a rant at other community members for not reading the thread and didnt read it your self as he answered both of those questions you asked earlyer...so it was ironic!

Chill out not looking for an argument, just pointed it out as a joke. :thumb:


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## nibbsey (Feb 12, 2008)

Van said:


> You were having a rant at other community members for not reading the thread and didnt read it your self as he answered both of those questions you asked earlyer...so it was ironic!
> 
> Chill out not looking for an argument, just pointed it out as a joke. :thumb:


 In answer to you reply my friend. Yes the question was answered in a round about way earlier in the thread, i was merely asking for clarification on the topic using terminoligy that we all understand, so it is clearer in ALL of our minds what method PRO1 uses mostly and other pro's besides.

BTW I am chilled out totaly, i do not feel the need to enter into a slanging match with anyone OK matey? :thumb:


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## xyon (Nov 3, 2007)

Great thread this pro1, a lot of people think being a pro means putting how you look way before your health, so I think this thread is very positive in that respect.On a different note what did you think of this years placing's at the O? Do you think the judges got it right?


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## GHS (Oct 6, 2008)

Pro, just wondered if you could comment on any pro's (without mentioning any names of course) you know that do take excessive amounts of AAS and the differences (if any) between them and yourself?

We here stories from people like 100iu of slin a day is taken by some pros and that they are too scared to eat without taking slin etc. Do those types of mega doses really go on?

GHS


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

hello pro1....great read.....how do u typically deplete/carb up for a show...? 3day deplete/3day load?....and wats ur opinion on leaving the carb until the last 12-24 hours and sh!tloading? thanks mate


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## anadrol_mole (Jun 18, 2009)

what an awful cycle!why has noone else said this!


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

do you run privirion through out your course


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## Al Kerseltzer (May 5, 2008)

anadrol_mole said:


> what an awful cycle!why has noone else said this!


ok i get the feeling this is another wind up... but if you are serious....

why is this an awful cycle? i cant wait for this one.....


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## anadrol_mole (Jun 18, 2009)

Weeks 1-4

1000mgs sustenon EW

400mgs norma deca EW

30mgs dbol ED (split into 3 doses)

50mgs anavar ED (split into 2 doses)

Weeks 5-8

1000mgs test enanthate EW

400mgs tren enanthate EW

50mgs anapolon ED (split into 2 doses)

50mgs winstrol ED (split into 2 doses)

Weeks 9-12

100mgs test propionate EOD

100mgs tren acetate EOD

50mgs anavar ED (split into 2 doses)

30mgs halotestin ED (split into 3 doses)


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

explain why its crap


----------



## Rudedog (Jan 14, 2009)

Please enlighten us then buddy


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## Al Kerseltzer (May 5, 2008)

anadrol_mole said:


> Weeks 1-4
> 
> 1000mgs sustenon EW
> 
> ...


wow! your cutting and pasting skills are truely awe-inspiring....

now explain why its awful....


----------



## Al Kerseltzer (May 5, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> explain why its crap





Rudedog said:


> Please enlighten us then buddy


i wouldnt hold out too much hope guys, have a look at his previous posts:whistling:


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

anadrol_mole said:


> what an awful cycle!why has noone else said this!


why waste time with this "no pic, no rep" dont-know-sh1t idiot (yeah i said it)

Pro1 keep it up Bro:thumb:


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

****er complete wnaker


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

Castle bonita


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## Juntao (Oct 16, 2009)

PRO, what would your typical pre-contest cycle be like?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

ok im not a pro and i like the way i use gear but the only thing that got me on te gear is 4wks of long acting gear? why stop deca at wk4? it is just getting good. why change the test? test is test? i like the swap from fast to slow to come off and pct tho and the combo of gear is good if it was run for longer. if it was me i would just run test e 10wks deca 10wks and use other gear as it is then swap prop for test drop the deca and run it as it is last 4 wks. just me tho im no pro tho! still very interesting thred


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

big_jim_87 said:


> ok im not a pro and i like the way i use gear but the only thing that got me on te gear is 4wks of long acting gear? why stop deca at wk4? it is just getting good. why change the test? test is test? i like the swap from fast to slow to come off and pct tho and the combo of gear is good if it was run for longer. if it was me i would just run test e 10wks deca 10wks and use other gear as it is then swap prop for test drop the deca and run it as it is last 4 wks. just me tho im no pro tho! still very interesting thred


I asked the same question here mate- http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/76435-pro1s-cycle-3.html

Tho i still cant understand for the life of me why someone would feel more energy and less lethargy on sust over test enanthate,after all test being test and all.......but maybe its me thats wrong.

But hey to each their own and whatever anyone wants to believe fair enough,plenty of good info going on here


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## im sparticus (Oct 22, 2005)

WOULDNT NPP be better than deca on wk1-4, im no expert regarding show,but the amount of threads we have saying that the full benefit for deca is at least 10wk,wouldnt a shorter ester be better?


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

The Pro already said that Deca starts working as soon as it's banged in. The 3 to 4 weeks is when you feel it's strength building effects. You are anabolic on it straight off....

You no risten!!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Is this guy casting pearls before the swine?

He'll likely stop posting if you guys can't filter the poo out between the heed and the keyboarb


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## Anthony83 (Jun 9, 2009)

Hi pro1,very good thread mate,just wondering on ur orals,what labs do u use on ur dbol,anavar,and winstrel.also which tren do u use mate,thanks mate


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Uriel said:


> Is this guy casting pearls before the swine?
> 
> He'll likely stop posting if you guys can't filter the poo out between the heed and the keyboarb


^ x 2!

Pro - please don't stop posting!


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

dont stop moving can you feel the do do do...


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## BenM (Sep 12, 2009)

Tho i still cant understand for the life of me why someone would feel more energy and less lethargy on sust over test enanthate,after all test being test and all.......but maybe its me thats wrong.

I keep seeing guys stating that test is test. However, isn't the reason for using Sustenon because of the synergistic effect of the combination of test's, as this information states: http://www.steroids-directory.com/profiles/sust_250.htm?

Keep posting Pro, good read and firing up some interesting debate as well.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

hes sensitive to sust so thats why he swaps esters

please come back pro1


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2009)

weeman said:


> I asked the same question here mate- http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/76435-pro1s-cycle-3.html
> 
> Tho i still cant understand for the life of me why someone would feel more energy and less lethargy on sust over test enanthate,after all test being test and all.......but maybe its me thats wrong.
> 
> But hey to each their own and whatever anyone wants to believe fair enough,plenty of good info going on here


So do you feel the exact same way if you drink a few pints of cider compared to a few shots of vodka? Just because both are made out of alcohol?

I for one feel a large difference between lets say test enth and test prop.


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## The_Wolverine (May 16, 2009)

if sus makes him feel like that then fair enough, everyone reacts to things differently.. everyone gets different sides and effects so he obviously feels that he has had his kick start from the sus an now he can go onto enth as he doesnt feel like **** on!!

you can definatly feel the difference from starting on sus or enth,.. id understand people questioning him if he was changing from cyp to enth??.. yes test is test but sus is 4 different esters opposed to one, obviously its going to effect the body differently as your gettin the four different release time of test rather than the steady build up of something like enth??......


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

xyon said:


> Great thread this pro1, a lot of people think being a pro means putting how you look way before your health, so I think this thread is very positive in that respect.On a different note what did you think of this years placing's at the O? Do you think the judges got it right?


Yes Cutler all the way. Maybe I would have had Dex in 2nd spot though as he was bigger and leaner than last year. Branch is a tank but not the most pleasing but hey, its all about muscle this year, same in the 202's. The guy with the freakiest physique won, Kevin English.


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Good to see you back on board mate...helping out all us minions. thanks.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

GHS said:


> Pro, just wondered if you could comment on any pro's (without mentioning any names of course) you know that do take excessive amounts of AAS and the differences (if any) between them and yourself?
> 
> We here stories from people like 100iu of slin a day is taken by some pros and that they are too scared to eat without taking slin etc. Do those types of mega doses really go on?
> 
> GHS


I am sure they do go on but personally I dont know many, if any, that use more than 2g a week tops. As for slin, yes that goes on but not a lot more than 20-30ius daily. As all these things, everything is doubled and then a little bit more is added on for good measure.

In my experience, amateurs use more than a lot of pro's. Many try to make up for poor genetics or nutrition with more juice. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.


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## DanJ (Sep 12, 2008)

Excellent thread, very very informal. I think it should be stickied as there's a lot of solid information here.

And i for one would love to see a diet thread from you Pro1.

Many thanks for taking the time mate.

Dan :thumbup1: .


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

XJPX said:


> hello pro1....great read.....how do u typically deplete/carb up for a show...? 3day deplete/3day load?....and wats ur opinion on leaving the carb until the last 12-24 hours and sh!tloading? thanks mate


All depends on the individual. I like to deplete real low then heavily load but I have tried **** loading too.

There are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak. Most of the glycogen you store in a load is taken in during the first 24-36 hours anyway.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

glanzav said:


> do you run privirion through out your course


No, I have no issues with estrogen. I will use pre contest though.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Juntao said:


> PRO, what would your typical pre-contest cycle be like?


I would typically use test, deca and dbol for the first 6-8 weeks then swap over to test prop, tren, winny and halo for the last 4-6 weeks whilst incorporating some anti e's in there too.

Nice and simple really.

My doses are lower pre contest as all I am doing is holding onto muscle, not building.


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## DanJ (Sep 12, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> I would typically use test, deca and dbol for the first 6-8 weeks then swap over to test prop, tren, winny and halo for the last 4-6 weeks whilst incorporating some anti e's in there too.
> 
> Nice and simple really.
> 
> My doses are lower pre contest as all I am doing is holding onto muscle, not building.


That's interesting. I've always thought you would end up using more to combat the effects of carb depleting. i suppose though that if it's done correctly, losing muscle wouldn't be an issue.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Anthony83 said:


> Hi pro1,very good thread mate,just wondering on ur orals,what labs do u use on ur dbol,anavar,and winstrel.also which tren do u use mate,thanks mate


I use pharmaceuticals where I can for everything including orals except trenbolone but I am not at liberty to say which lab I use I'm afraid.


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## coldo (Dec 7, 2008)

Appologies if it's been covered before (did scan quickly) but what, if any 'cutting' drugs do you use and at what doses?

Clen/eph etc?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

DanJ said:


> That's interesting. I've always thought you would end up using more to combat the effects of carb depleting. i suppose though that if it's done correctly, losing muscle wouldn't be an issue.


I eat a lot of food when I diet.

Most people and I would say at least 80% of competitive bodybuilders, use too much juice when dieting. Dieting is hard enough without all the drugs too, intro too many at too high an amount and you will feel like sh1t. Period.


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## DanJ (Sep 12, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> I eat a lot of food when I diet.
> 
> Most people and I would say at least 80% of competitive bodybuilders, use too much juice when dieting. Dieting is hard enough without all the drugs too, intro too many at too high an amount and you will feel like sh1t. Period.


Makes perfect sense. Make, what is already a difficult journey, easier for yourself by keeping things simple. Thanks for the advice.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

coldo said:


> Appologies if it's been covered before (did scan quickly) but what, if any 'cutting' drugs do you use and at what doses?
> 
> Clen/eph etc?


I use clen, eca, t3 and t4 as I find the combination of the two is better than either t3 or t4 on its own, dont ask me why I just have found this through experience.

Never used DNP and never would. Some things just aren't worth it. Lazy man's drug who values bodybuilding more than life itself.

You have got to be a desperate son of a bitch to use that sh1t.


----------



## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

Originally Posted by *glanzav* 

do you run privirion through out your course



PRO1 said:


> No, I have no issues with estrogen. I will use pre contest though.


what is the reason for only using precontest.

Thanks for your time on this thread


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

You mean the steroids would make you feel like ****e pre contest if used in high dosages?

Could you explain...?


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

BenM said:


> Tho i still cant understand for the life of me why someone would feel more energy and less lethargy on sust over test enanthate,after all test being test and all.......but maybe its me thats wrong.
> 
> I keep seeing guys stating that test is test. However, isn't the reason for using Sustenon because of the synergistic effect of the combination of test's, as this information states: http://www.steroids-directory.com/profiles/sust_250.htm?
> 
> Keep posting Pro, good read and firing up some interesting debate as well.


well test is test if you like to combo esters then test e and prop on same cycle? like i said this is just me i aint a pro lol im a cock ed and what do i know about gear? lol


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

not sure if this is already said? but the use of orals through out, why is this do you think this is a safe thing to do?


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> I am sure they do go on but personally I dont know many, if any, that use more than 2g a week tops. As for slin, yes that goes on but not a lot more than 20-30ius daily. As all these things, everything is doubled and then a little bit more is added on for good measure.
> 
> In my experience, amateurs use more than a lot of pro's. Many try to make up for poor genetics or nutrition with more juice. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.


And then the amateurs are usually the ones with the health problems... go figure.

Enjoying this thread. I like to read a bit of sense in what is a crazy sport where pushing the limits of health while staying healthy is such a fine line!


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Replicator said:


> Originally Posted by *glanzav*
> 
> do you run privirion through out your course
> 
> ...


It helps keep me a little drier and used with adex it is great in the last 4 weeks. Also helps keep a little life below the waist!!


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Need-valid-info said:


> You mean the steroids would make you feel like ****e pre contest if used in high dosages?
> 
> Could you explain...?


High doses can make you feel sh1t at any time. I have some friends that are always complaining about being tired, feeling bloated and losing appetite. Add in a diet, endless cardio and high stress levels and these sides are just made a whole lot worst.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> not sure if this is already said? but the use of orals through out, why is this do you think this is a safe thing to do?


Define safe.

I feel the risk/benefit is worth while. Yes, liver values will be elevated for some but the doses are hardly high and on ceasing things settle back to pre cycle levels.


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

do you use site injections for your gear to help increase muscle size?


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> All depends on the individual. I like to deplete real low then heavily load but I have tried **** loading too.
> 
> There are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak. Most of the glycogen you store in a load is taken in during the first 24-36 hours anyway.


when you deplete do you drop down to just pro/veg days.... or do u keep some carbs in?...do you find a need to keep any carbs in to protect muscle during the depletion?

i heard of other pro's during crazyyy amounts of sets/reps for depletion....a friend of mine bumped into Silvio Samuel recently whilst on holiday and Silvio was doing 1000 reps for his chest depletion session......whats ur typical depletion regime? thanka again for the information mate....im learning a lot from reading what you have to say


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

BRABUS said:


> Pro1, Really appreciate your knowledge and insight....its very obvious you kno your stuff and are speaking from personal experience which is fantastic.
> 
> One question i have though since GH has been the topic for a few posts....GHRP6 seems to be getting quite popular lately. I don't know if youve usd it but whats your views on it mate since its meant to be, and some will swear, that its better the exo GH as it makes/encourages your body to produce more of your own..
> 
> Figure's mentioned are that 100mcg of ghrp6 is in the region of 5iu's of exo GH??


Bump.....:cool:


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## Dwaine Chambers (Sep 14, 2008)

You say that taking insulin will protect the pancreas and stop you getting diabetes. Is that something that is wildly known or is it just your own theory? I'm always worried about diabetes for some reason.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

Apologies if you have already wrote it out before, what dose of adex or proviron do you run 4 weeks out on your cut to help stay dry and 'active' down below lol


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Khaos said:


> do you use site injections for your gear to help increase muscle size?


No, not something I have ever done TBH. Either delts or glutes. Hate shooting quads. Wherever I put it I cant walk for a week!


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

XJPX said:


> when you deplete do you drop down to just pro/veg days.... or do u keep some carbs in?...do you find a need to keep any carbs in to protect muscle during the depletion?
> 
> i heard of other pro's during crazyyy amounts of sets/reps for depletion....a friend of mine bumped into Silvio Samuel recently whilst on holiday and Silvio was doing 1000 reps for his chest depletion session......whats ur typical depletion regime? thanka again for the information mate....im learning a lot from reading what you have to say


I always keep some carbs in. Going zero is counter productive and all it means is that you haven't dieted properly and are behind if you are going zero.

I also find if you go zero the body doesn't accept the carbs as well and during carbing up the athlete can feel really unwell.

I deplete down using moderate reps for my upper body during the last week, reps of 15 to 20 are ample but squeezing is essential along with isometrics between sets. I stop training quads around 2-3 weeks out as by then my cardio is high and my legs never recover.

I dont have a protocol as such. Last time I actually increased my carbs and fats over the last 2 days of depletion as I was ready to load a week out and my weight was dropping fast.

You have to play depletion by ear. Most are very depleted come the depletion phase and if you dip too low you will never fill back up in time.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

BRABUS said:


> Bump.....


Answer in post 144.

Keep up bro!!


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Dwaine Chambers said:


> You say that taking insulin will protect the pancreas and stop you getting diabetes. Is that something that is wildly known or is it just your own theory? I'm always worried about diabetes for some reason.


Just my own logical reasoning, nothing more. Remember this may not be the case with high doses but certainly doses between 5-10ius daily I would guess it may have a protective effect.

Perhaps something to research more fully?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Incredible Bulk said:


> Apologies if you have already wrote it out before, what dose of adex or proviron do you run 4 weeks out on your cut to help stay dry and 'active' down below lol


1mg of Arimidex EOD is ample. The half life is around 2 days and it is a very strong drug indeed. I have heard of guys doing 1mg 2x daily, far too much and just another 'more is better' mentality!

Proviron would be run at 50mgs daily but this drug is well tolerated by the body and the liver and can be run at 100-200mgs daily without too many issues. I personally would find 100mgs quite ample.


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## Team1 (Apr 3, 2008)

Hi Pro1

What did you run on your first ever course and how did that go for you?


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## miller25 (Apr 22, 2007)

Hi Pro1, I have been reading through this thread and found it interesting. Is there anything you think you can learn on this board? Also, what attracted you to this board? Is there anything you feel can learn from some of the guys on here, as there are some very knowledgeable guys on here?

Are you sick of the questions? Because I would be?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

Team1 said:


> Hi Pro1
> 
> What did you run on your first ever course and how did that go for you?


great question.

id furhter that to say. what was your first cycle, gains, sides, and what you learnt from it. and your 2nd cycle therefore


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Pro, you say you don't come off, so you are on year after year?

Have you found that your gains have diminished through the passage of time as a result? Obviously taking into account that as you increase in muscularture, further lean gains become increasingly difficult.

Considering this and assuming you had the opportunity to start again and change your cycle structure, would you change your approach of staying on to say a cycle, a period off (free from AAS), and then back on?

I read receptor saturation and other such theories about why staying on isn't optimal, and I was wondering what your personal opinion on this is.

Surely with progressive overload and attention to diet, it is possible to continue to gain?

Many thanks for a superb read.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Team1 said:


> Hi Pro1
> 
> What did you run on your first ever course and how did that go for you?


That's a great question and one that I am finding hard to remember.

I think it was 200mgs of deca weekly for 8 weeks. I remember the first shot. I was so nervous but excited. I was expecting to feel something straight away as soon as I shot it but obviously I didn't. My mate did it for me and all I remember was straight after I had a sales meeting at a restaurant and my glute slowly starting to ache during the meal!

I gained around a stone.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

miller25 said:


> Hi Pro1, I have been reading through this thread and found it interesting. Is there anything you think you can learn on this board? Also, what attracted you to this board? Is there anything you feel can learn from some of the guys on here, as there are some very knowledgeable guys on here?
> 
> Are you sick of the questions? Because I would be?


I think a lot of the U.S boards can learn from this one. It's a friendly place here and the mods jump on anything before its happened which is great. There is so much bullying that goes on on some boards and that's not right.

I am willing to learn from anyone if I think the reasoning is sound. There are a lot of guys that know more than me who post on here. Most of my info is from personal experience with only a little science. But you know as well as I do that sometimes personal experiences and anecdotal evidence can be just as strong as scientific fact.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

BigDom86 said:


> great question.
> 
> id furhter that to say. what was your first cycle, gains, sides, and what you learnt from it. and your 2nd cycle therefore


I had no sides except muscular gains.

My next cycle (6 weeks) was 300mgs of Viromone and 150mgs of Zambon Winstrol every week. Nice lean gains which led very nicely on from the deca cycle.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

LittleChris said:


> Pro, you say you don't come off, so you are on year after year?
> 
> Have you found that your gains have diminished through the passage of time as a result? Obviously taking into account that as you increase in muscularture, further lean gains become increasingly difficult.
> 
> ...


I do come off, just not as much as I used to. I used to take a good 6 months off every year whilst not competing. Its only in the last 2 years that I have had shorter breaks of 6-8 weeks where I have bridged with 250mgs a week.

I do agree that gains are diminished as times go by but now my goals are not to gain a lot more mass, just work on quality and maturity and you can do that with actually less juice than you think. My current cycle is a biggy for me and will not be the norm in the coming year. I have a goal of 220lbs and if I can get there and then just get harder at that weight I will have accomplished my goals.

Of course diet and training play a huge factor and its only 2 weeks ago I took my training to a whole new level of intensity, so we will see how that effects things.


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

You have taken your training to a whole new level of intensity, do tell more...


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Need-valid-info said:


> You have taken your training to a whole new level of intensity, do tell more...


Nothing new or earth shattering. I have swapped to extremely high intensity volume training. Just by cutting my rest periods down to 60-90 seconds (depending on the size of the body part trained) I have found the pumps insane and I feel pumped all the time in and out of the gym. I am doing around 10 sets for smaller bodyparts and around 16 for larger bodyparts, which is around a third more than I was doing. I am fairly lucky in that my body responds well to all types of training, its really just a question of how quickly over training kicks in. Once that happens I'll ease off the gas for a week or 2 and then hit it again.

You have to be instinctive at my level and just go by how you are feeling on a week to week basis. At the moment I feel great and I am gaining well and all the time that is the case I will continue as I am.

I wanted to change my training around anyway and just felt that to coincide it with a decent course would be beneficial after a period of 'nothingness'.


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

I am doing more volume also atm, FST-7 is awesome for a pump also aint felt anything like it in a long time


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Pro-1 do you get bloods carried out and if so how often and what do you get tested??


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> Pro-1 do you get bloods carried out and if so how often and what do you get tested??


Yes I try to get them done every 6 months or so.

I have all the usual stuff done; kidney function, liver function, full bloods (red and white), cholesterol inc triglycerides etc.

I have low cholesterol but also very low HDL too which means that my ratio is poor.

My creatine Kinase is always raised but that is down to having about 50% more muscle than an average man of my height.

What was quite startling were my friends bloods he had done. He is a natural athlete who I work with and a very good friend. I got him to have blood work done after his first show in June and it highlighted very low levels of test (2.3). Then he had them done again around 2 months ago and his test was recovering but his kidney function was becoming comprimised.

He then had his sperm tested as well as full bloods and his sperm was nearly 100,000,000 per ml even though his test was still low (I explained that it is the concentration of test around the testes that is important not the free test). Never before had the doctor seen anyone with this amount of viable sperm with such low test!

What was more of concern was his kidney function. His creatinine had increased as well as his urea and also his sedementation rate. In fact they were so concerned that they booked an emergency appt for him to have some scans. He was ****ting himself!!!! He was at stage 3 of kidney failure out of 5. They booked another blood test 5 days later so I thought I would run a little experiment. Anyway I had a look at his diet and his protein was high (around 325g) and he was training balls to the wall. I told him to take the next 4 days off the gym and bring his protein down to 25g per meal giving him around 150g for the day and to bump his fats and carbs up a little to compensate.

Anyway he had the bloods done again and they all came back perfect. The docter was completely baffled but it just goes to show how important diet is in all of this. Remember this guy was and is totally natural.

I told him everything would be fine and sure enough it was. He is still going to have the tests and the scans to see if any damage has been done from years of high protein use.

Just goes to show how some doctors still know nothing about our sport and how diet can effect it so much!!!

Blood work is essential, normally just for peace of mind but it can sometimes highlight a problem that if left could end up very serious indeed.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

God said:


> Wow, didn't realise that really high protein was that bad for your kidneys. Food for thought...


Kidney issues are more often than not caused by dietary issues in my experience or hereditary (i.e family history) Liver function is more comprimised by drug taking (i.e steroids and particularly oral 17aa ones) rather than diet.

It just shows the importance of blood work, even for natural athletes. Nowadays its incredibly easy to tuck away a lot of protein every day what with shakes, RTD's, test tubes, amino's, BCAA's etc, rather than back in the day when it was more often than not from food.

One of the reasons I rely very little on supplements (of any kind) and try to get most of my protein from whole food. In fact all I take are 4 scoops of powder a day, the rest is made up of whole foods


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## Themanabolic (Jun 25, 2009)

God said:


> Wow, didn't realise that really high protein was that bad for your kidneys. Food for thought...


a high protein diet tends to exasperate an existing kidney problems.

But if your kidneys are healthy, a large amount of protein will cause minimal problems (In both my opinion and my physiology lecturers)


----------



## SPIKE1982 (Sep 26, 2009)

PRO1 when you say you get your bloods done roughly every 6 month is this whilst you are on cycle or after you have finshed a cycle and finished PCT??

I only ask as i had mine done about 6wk ago about 3 days after i had finished my cycle (not the best time to get done i dont think lol) however most was in normal ranges apart from

SERUM UREA which was slightly over at 8.1mmol/L and my test levels were all over the place at

SERUM LH 0.1 U/L

SERUM FSH 0.5 U/L

SERUM TEST 52.1 NMOL/L

SHBG 6 NMOL but due to litrally just finishing my cycle i suppose this was to be expected??


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

SPIKE1982 said:


> PRO1 when you say you get your bloods done roughly every 6 month is this whilst you are on cycle or after you have finshed a cycle and finished PCT??
> 
> I only ask as i had mine done about 6wk ago about 3 days after i had finished my cycle (not the best time to get done i dont think lol) however most was in normal ranges apart from
> 
> ...


If I were to ahve them tested I would generally have them done nearing the end as this is when the concentration of drugs is at their highest. Whilst off I would normally have them down around 6-8 weeks after ceasing a cycle.

All those results are very typical of a AAS user. Very high test levels (from exogenous test) and very low FSH and LH due to shutdown. If everything else was good to go then I would say your body is healthy as this would be the time that any problems or raised values would manifest themselves. I would have them tested again in around 6-8 weeks time to see if LH, FSH and test levels are back within reference ranges. Depending on how long you have been on and the doses used, it would be very likely that all three would still be below where they should be but what you are looking for is an improvement and PCT can help this to a degree. As I said before true recovery is only apparant after 3-18 months off AAS in many individuals, even with PCT.


----------



## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Themanabolic said:


> a high protein diet tends to exasperate an existing kidney problems.
> 
> But if your kidneys are healthy, a large amount of protein will cause minimal problems (In both my opinion and my physiology lecturers)


Thanks for that, interesting information that I will pass onto my friend.


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

ye my kidney and liver values are slightly under and i get these dull achey/ stabbing pains now and then on the left and right lower side of bak and im not even on steroids


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## SPIKE1982 (Sep 26, 2009)

PRO1 said:


> If I were to ahve them tested I would generally have them done nearing the end as this is when the concentration of drugs is at their highest. Whilst off I would normally have them down around 6-8 weeks after ceasing a cycle.
> 
> All those results are very typical of a AAS user. Very high test levels (from exogenous test) and very low FSH and LH due to shutdown. If everything else was good to go then I would say your body is healthy as this would be the time that any problems or raised values would manifest themselves. I would have them tested again in around 6-8 weeks time to see if LH, FSH and test levels are back within reference ranges. Depending on how long you have been on and the doses used, it would be very likely that all three would still be below where they should be but what you are looking for is an improvement and PCT can help this to a degree. As I said before true recovery is only apparant after 3-18 months off AAS in many individuals, even with PCT.


Thanks alot PRO1 for the reply....Really enjoying this thread keep it up mate....:cool:


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Weight is now up to 214lbs so just 6lbs off from where I want to be in 9 weeks time. I am now 2.5 weeks into the course and feel great. I have volumised hugely over the last week and am at my all time heaviest bodyweight.

I am really looking forward to starting the trenbolone in around 1.5 weeks, this stuff works like magic with me and I haven't used it for nearly 18 months!

I am still not running any anti E's. I have no estro sides at all so I will just keep them on hand if I do start to feel anything. I have never suffered in the past so see no reason why I will need them this time.

My strength has gone up dramatically already, so I am delighted. All in all a great start, long may it continue.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

PRO1 said:


> Weight is now up to 214lbs so just 6lbs off from where I want to be in 9 weeks time. I am now 2.5 weeks into the course and feel great. I have volumised hugely over the last week and am at my all time heaviest bodyweight.
> 
> I am really looking forward to starting the trenbolone in around 1.5 weeks, this stuff works like magic with me and I haven't used it for nearly 18 months!
> 
> ...


glad things are going well mate


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

do you agree that taking anti Es can reduce test uptake and efficiency?


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## DanJ (Sep 12, 2008)

Pro1, what bodyfat percentage would you allow yourself to go up to on this cycle, seeing as you are trying to gain mass in a reasonably short space of time?


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## king_jamie_h (Oct 18, 2009)

U said earlier that GH burns fat locally. If you had gyno and injected in the chest would it get rid? Also for all of the guys who are quite new to steroid use would you say get on GH as soon as possible or get as big as you can get on steroids then go on GH?


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

Can you chuck some pics up?Cover the face


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> Can you chuck some pics up?Cover the face


don't take the mick bro, respect PRO1 and his privacy, i can recognise most BBs from a single bodypart:whistling:


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> Can you chuck some pics up?Cover the face


why?


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## king_jamie_h (Oct 18, 2009)

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> Can you chuck some pics up?Cover the face


ano stop takin the fukin **** this guy didnt have to come on ere


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## Need-valid-info (Mar 29, 2009)

stop abusing him, only takes one to tell him its not a great idea, stop following sheep


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

PRO1 said:


> I have heard some good things about this peptide but I guess I see it like anything else that makes your body produce more of something.
> 
> Look at it this way. If you assimilate sugary drinks or foods then you will encourage your body to produce insulin which over an extended period of time could result in type II diabetes. Use exogenous insulin and in my opinion you protect your own body from such an event and burning out your own pancreas.
> 
> ...


Apologies for the bump, i over looked the reply...

So re the above, am i right in interpretating what your saying is that by adding ghrp6 may have a negative effect on the pituatory gland due to it encouraging it to produce GH? Whereas adding gh would assist the pituatory gland??

interesting theory mate....ta...


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Khaos said:


> do you agree that taking anti Es can reduce test uptake and efficiency?


Its a possibilty. I have read that nolva especially can reduce the effects but I dont know by how much. The reason I dont use is more for the fact that why take another drug to combat others symptoms when you dont actually have any symptoms.

Its always wise to have some serms or ai's on hand just in case though. I would rather it took a little of the effect away than give me breasts.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

DanJ said:


> Pro1, what bodyfat percentage would you allow yourself to go up to on this cycle, seeing as you are trying to gain mass in a reasonably short space of time?


My bodyfat normally comes down when I go on cycle. I dont keep a check, only with the scales and visually. As long as a see separation in my thighs and my abs I'm happy. I tend to hold fairly evenly over my body.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

king_jamie_h said:


> U said earlier that GH burns fat locally. If you had gyno and injected in the chest would it get rid? Also for all of the guys who are quite new to steroid use would you say get on GH as soon as possible or get as big as you can get on steroids then go on GH?


No No. Gyno is caused by the GLAND in the breast enlarging, not just fat tissue surrounding it.

GH is a drug that is expensive and worthless to many individuals as it is not normally used for long enough. Money is far better spent on food, supplements and a well worked out cycle. If you have money to burn and can afford to stay on for 6 months plus then I think there are some benefits for its use.


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

What are your views on IGF. A useful peptide or not? I read something by Gavin Kane which stated that whilst GH was beneficial for dieting, the anabolic gains are primarily from the conversion to igf, so why waste money when you can buy it direct.

What do you think of this?


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## Chemical_doc (Mar 21, 2009)

First nice to see you there

Good cycle, constant switching products, many pro's are doing so, and this is also Milos Sarcev like's cycles.

Hope you'll reach your goals.

Few questions:

I've heard from few people I trust, and also read an article on rxmuscle written by Jhon Romano, that usa pro's have labs that produce gears for them and products are nothing less then human grade!

What are you thoughs on this?

What UG brands do you like?


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## musclemorpheus (Sep 29, 2005)

chemical if you have read this thread thoroughly he said in an earlier post he won't disclose what Labs he is using...


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

LittleChris said:


> What are your views on IGF. A useful peptide or not? I read something by Gavin Kane which stated that whilst GH was beneficial for dieting, the anabolic gains are primarily from the conversion to igf, so why waste money when you can buy it direct.
> 
> What do you think of this?


I prefer GH probably because I can visually see the effect of it quite quickly. IGF is a lot more subtle and changes may be seen but much later i.e months.

GH does have many other benefits as well as muscle tone which is why I prefer it. It allows me to eat more food and keeps my bodyfat in check in the off season.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Chemical_doc said:


> First nice to see you there
> 
> Good cycle, constant switching products, many pro's are doing so, and this is also Milos Sarcev like's cycles.
> 
> ...


A lot of US pro's are under 'Physicians' which are able to 'prescribe' these hormones without retribution. In the US it is not only illegal to sell AAS but also to possess and use unless you have a valid script from a registered physician.

As for the quality of AAS prescribed, that would vary from lab to lab. As far as my thoughts, I'm not at liberty to say.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

musclemorpheus said:


> chemical if you have read this thread thoroughly he said in an earlier post he won't disclose what Labs he is using...


Indeed, well observed.


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## BigRy (Oct 29, 2009)

great thread and some serious food for thought in relation to all of our cycles. keep it up pro


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Flex Factor said:


> Would you then say PRO1 that the length of time using GH is far more important that the quantities used? I.e. would you say 3ius a day for 10 months is far more effective than 9ius a day for 3 to 4 months?
> 
> Thanks again for taking the time to give us your opinions/views.


I used 8ius every day for around 3 months last year and I got big but also held a lot of water, had gut distention, numb hands for weeks, swollen feet etc, broken sleep etc..

The pumps were incredible but definately not worth the sides.

I am now taking 1.5ius 2x daily and feel great. No sides, some nice recompositioning, good pumps, great sleep so all in all.......

......LESS IS BEST BUT OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME...PERIOD


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## Origin (Feb 5, 2009)

Great thread Pro1, just read all19 pgs to catch up.

I just wanted to clarify something. I'm starting pct next week after being on for pre and post comp, in all about 16weeks. (dont laugh)

I have been using GH throughout building upto a dose of 5iu p/day. Now my friend who has helped me said to come off the GH and start again in the new year for when I start my next cycle.

Would it not be more beneficial to stay on the GH at a lower dosage with or without any gear in the system?

Thanks


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

after a show, how do you add back in the carbs into your diet for full rebound effect?

adding too much too soon and you look like a watery mess and spill over?

Too little and maybe not utilising the full anabolic growth potential?


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Origin said:


> Great thread Pro1, just read all19 pgs to catch up.
> 
> I just wanted to clarify something. I'm starting pct next week after being on for pre and post comp, in all about 16weeks. (dont laugh)
> 
> ...


I would say that 5ius is too much per day anyway. I would knock that down to 2-3ius per day. The longer you can run it the better IMO.

Taking a break wouldn't be a bad idea at all, sometimes its just nice to be 'normal' for a few months.


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## PRO1 (Oct 10, 2009)

Incredible Bulk said:


> after a show, how do you add back in the carbs into your diet for full rebound effect?
> 
> adding too much too soon and you look like a watery mess and spill over?
> 
> Too little and maybe not utilising the full anabolic growth potential?


Its not really about carbs (cetainly not complex anyway), its more about the dehydration and then the cutting of sodium prior to the show that causes the rebound straight after. Steer away from simple carbs (except PWO) as these will spike your insulin levels and cause you to hold more water and fat.

I just run with the rebound, its kind of inevitable but you can limit the rebound by having 1 day of eating what you like then get back on to the diet you started right at the start of your prep and then slowly add in carbs from there. The most important thing is to keep your water high, at least 6 litres daily for the 7-10 days after the show, this is key to limiting the rebound as well as doing a little pre breakfast cardio every morning for 2 weeks after then backing off slowly to 3-4 morning a week.


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## daz8 (Mar 22, 2007)

What a great thread Thanks


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

Really interesting read, hope he can give a big update on his progress and training plans over xmas..


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

Awesome thread this ...........it really is.


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Wheres Pro1??????


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

Veni Vidi Vici


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