# how bodybuilding is 90% drugs



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

since it has been said someone chronically ill dependent on medications ike cancer patients cannot look like me, i wanted to state the following. im not pro or anything but you will see the points how little diet and training means and how much it is just the drugs. i am not proud of it, but i have no choice, so i deserve this body simply for still following my passion.

"just looking in here thinking i won't post anymore. but this is me telling you honestly. i was natural before i got ill.

even with only 3 working sets two times per week you can look like this when you take the right kind and amount of aas/supplements. now wether it is bad for my heart or this or that i don't care, drop on a hot stone (does this expression exist in english?)

and well 160mg oxycodone and strong stimulants make it possible to do a few reps. the muscle grows on aas anyways and actually doing 3 reps pullups with added weight for me is a lot easier than walking up 5 figts of stairs or sitting uright in a chair for an hour.

yet, the next day my state is much worse.

so here you have it from someone else, not some pseudopro anonymous guy. bodybuilding is all aas. not nutrition or training. aas is 90% as long as you lift something sometimes and eat something, even just icecream all day. can even get away with 60 grams of protein.

please let's not make an argument out of this, i just thought some may find that interesting. and in my avi, i ate cake and icecream everyday. lowcarb diet,cardio? i think people either have bad gear or they are lying. i think mostpros eat pizza and donuts in prep, i mean when you are cutting on 5-6000calories..."


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

You feeling ok pal?


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## countrybumpkin (Jul 2, 2011)

What a load of ****ing drivel


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

what a strange post


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Absolute horse shít

It's 90% diet, drugs are a minor part imo


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

i am thoroughly confused


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

frape


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

I think you're confusing 'bodybuilding' as a sport with adding a bit of muscle.

Of course anyone can bang in a bit of test, do a few half arsed workouts and look better than they did before... but that doesn't equate to bodybuilding. You're not going to get on stage eating 60g of protein a day and a couple of sets here and there lol


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

crazy mofo


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## Soul keeper (Jul 7, 2010)

Before you got ill?

Are you okay now?


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Off to eat cake and ice cream now...


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## 2H3ENCH4U (May 23, 2012)

I kinda understand what your saying but if that was true why do I see some guys on steroids who still look like fkin crap ?

AAS play a big part (probably much more than some of us like to admit) but it is definetly less than 90%.

If I had to guess I would say : -

40% Diet

30% Training

15% AAS

10% Mindset

5% Knowledge

just my 2 cents.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

poor training + poor diet + drugs = some gains

poor diet + hard training + drugs = better gains

diet on point + training on point + no drugs = some gains

Diet on point + training on point + drugs = magic happens.


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

I'm about 90% away from adding muscle... (goes to steroid section)

I'd say its more about consistency than anything. Been training with no more than a couple of weeks off at a time for the past 8 years. Added quite a bit of muscle. Had my diet been on point I wouldn't be so fat as I am now. When my diet was ok I didn't look too bad.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

the point was someone said it was impossible to look like me in my avi when you are chronically ill and dependant on extreme doses of pain meds suggesting i could not be that ill. people would assume that my body is only achievable with a bodybuilding diet, frequent and at least moderate volume workouts etc.

i explained how i got to look the way i do despite being chronically ill and physically in the condition of someone with the most sever illnesses.

how much medicine i need so i can physically function etc.

and that i was natural for 5 years and trained 5-6 days a week, sometimes 3 full body workouts with cluster training, doing like 20 sets of 3 reps with your 5 rm, negatives, all that. then i got ill. because i could not train or would shake and nearly collapse after lfting 20kg weights i started steroids and am currently on many pain meds and other medication. without them i can barely walk. after 800meters of waking i feel like i did hours of cardio and am completely exhausted.

yet i managed to look like this under all these circumstances because i took steroids.

View attachment 165546


my avi and that is me under the circumstances i explained. please be respectful, i am not half arsing workouts, i am going to the gym despite it being way too much for my body which is severely ill due to a neurochemical condition which causes extreme pain, fatigue etc.

yet i try my best but a bb lifestyle like before the illness is not possible for me, yet i can have an above average physique according to others, who claim it is impossible if i was that sick. so i explained that it was possible because of medication and aas.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

Soul keeper said:


> Before you got ill?
> 
> Are you okay now?


no, but i am better due to meds. it is chronic, 5 years now.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I think you should stop wasting your limited energy posting on a forum full of [email protected] and use it to recover your mind and body mate.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

banzi said:


> poor training + poor diet + drugs = some gains
> 
> poor diet + hard training + drugs = better gains
> 
> ...


Agreed


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

So shouldn't your Thread title be. "How I built my Body- Its 90% drugs"


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> the point was someone said it was impossible to look like me in my avi *when you are chronically ill and dependant on extreme doses of pain meds suggesting i could not be that ill.* people would assume that my body is only achievable with a bodybuilding diet, frequent and at least moderate volume workouts etc.
> 
> i explained how i got to look the way i do despite *being chronically ill and physically in the condition of someone with the most sever illnesses*.
> 
> ...


Are you ill?

You never said.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

put the wrong picture, the side one and avi are more current i think.


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

megatron said:


> Absolute horse shít
> 
> It's 90% diet, drugs are a minor part imo


Not at all. My diet and cals have increased while I'm in pct and I'v lost muscle from cycle. The drugs are a big part of bodybuilding.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

megatron said:


> I think you should stop wasting your limited energy posting on a forum full of [email protected] and use it to recover your mind and body mate.


it's funny because being on the laptop is really even bad for my state of health, i should be sleeping mostly, but don't want to live like that.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Proteincarb said:


> Not at all. My diet and cals have increased while I'm in pct and I'v lost muscle from cycle. The drugs are a big part of bodybuilding.


I'm not saying they are pointless but I don't think theyt are 90% by a long way. I'm my mind the ranking is:

1. Diet

2. Training

3. Lifestyle (not getting drunk every night and making sure you rest well)

3. Drugs


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

1 I LIKE TO EAT

2 I LIKE TO LIFT HEAVY THINGS

3 I WILL GROW BECAUSE OF 1 AND 2 COMBINED

5 if I add steroids I will consume more + grow + lift more

Simple is simple does


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

2H3ENCH4U said:


> I kinda understand what your saying but if that was true why do I see some guys on steroids who still look like fkin crap ?
> 
> AAS play a big part (probably much more than some of us like to admit) but it is definetly less than 90%.
> 
> ...


but i don't get how one can look bad on aas unless they have no knowledge. all that is needed for example to look like my pictures is understanding and manipulating metabolism through aas and supps, for me nutrient patitioners and also need ai because i get fat from estro an nutrient partitioners allow me to eat sweets and tons of carbs. but my diet is whatever i want and my training is simply very little volume and frequenzy as i can't do more.

normally i do 1 working set push, 1 pull, 1 flyes and 1-2 pump sets for arms simply movinf the weight slowly for some burn and pump. 45 min., 5 minutes rest or so, between 3 times a week in very good phases or once every 4-7 days in worse phases.


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

compare the biggest actual natty with the biggest bodybuilder and its easy to see drugs are atleast 50%. Training obviously important but some train light 5 times a week, some heavy 3 times a week and doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference. Diet most on here seem to say its just calories/macros so thats easy too


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

why do people put drugs last? yes, you will grow more naturally with training than on gear without training. but once you introduce gear 1 full body workoutper week with one set per muscle group will surpass any amount of volume you do naturally. regardless of diet.

i don't get how people take aas, train 4 times a week, do cardio, eat well and have 16-17 inch arms with 15% bf.

right now i haven't been training more than once a week so i got a little out of shape but also retain some glycogen, so i am now at 90kg with 18 inch arms, in the pics was 81kg with 17 1/2. bodyfat now maybe max 12% if avi is 8%. and im on underdosed primo and some masteron.

i did use more and stronger compounds before but never could have looked like this naturally, even when i was healthy and training harder than anyone i knew.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> why do people put drugs last? yes, you will grow more naturally with training than on gear without training. but once you introduce gear 1 full body workoutper week with one set per muscle group will surpass any amount of volume you do naturally. regardless of diet.
> 
> i don't get how people take aas, train 4 times a week, do cardio, eat well and have 16-17 inch arms with 15% bf.
> 
> ...


im interested to know what drugs AAS you use (doses and how you use them), what supplements you use and how you manipulate your metabolism. Do you think it possible some the prescribed medications you use help in anyway towards fat loss/muscle growth etc etc


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

no they don't help really. well one suppressed appetite so i cut a lot of weight but it didn't have enough benefits to keep it in.

the most important thing is that i take something to improve glucose metabolism like glycobol or burn24 and an ai like formestane.

i have used almost everything but never really long as i tolerate only a few compounds.

masteron, nandrolone, trestolon and primo seem fine. test and orals are absolutely horrible mostly. last time i used an oral i got a 48 hour hickup witout breaks onger than a few seconds. my liver cant handle them really. tren i got near psychotic and boldenone i am scared because of the immune dysfunction i have/had and flu symptoms. but i can try it again as my meds may prevent tren sides.

really what i want is inj. trest with formestane transdermal and hgh at a low dose. that would help me get in the gym more often and longer but the amount it costs i need to spend on painkillers...120i.u. pharm grade hgh every month i would be able to buy.


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## Dai the drive (Dec 17, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> why do people put drugs last? yes, you will grow more naturally with training than on gear without training. but once you introduce gear 1 full body workoutper week with one set per muscle group will surpass any amount of volume you do naturally. regardless of diet.
> 
> i don't get how people take aas, train 4 times a week, do cardio, eat well and have 16-17 inch arms with 15% bf.
> 
> ...


My friend you could be the cleverest person on the planet, but I will never know because your posts are harder to read than Chinese maths.

Please, pretty please with cherries on top, at least try to pop in the odd capital letter or sentence with fewer than a bezillion words.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> poor training + poor diet + drugs = some gains
> 
> poor diet + hard training + drugs = better gains
> 
> ...


Unsure where I am on this but probably something like;

Poor diet + hard training(when not ill) + no drugs = natty looking bloke.


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

It's a sliding scale. The more AAS you put in, the less diet, training and rest matter however this will be offset by increase in health risks.


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)




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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

welshman said:


> It's a sliding scale. The more AAS you put in, the less diet, training and rest matter however this will be offset by increase in health risks.


I agree with this too.

consistent use at decent levels will get you places without the need for being excessively anal with everything else.

Just because its not the best/'right' way, doesn't make it less true.


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

You really come out with some weird posts, without wanting to offend are you mentally ill or autistic etc?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

welshman said:


> It's a sliding scale. The more AAS you put in, the less diet, training and rest matter however this will be offset by increase in health risks.


law of diminishing returns?

Eating well and keeping BF at a sensible level will allow you take increase dosage and keep sides to a minimum.

Eating like a pig and blowing up like a ballon whilst on high doses is silly to say the least.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

no. diagnosed as perfectly mentally healthy. cannot see the connections between your question and the thread.

my post is a response to someone because the thread was closed.

i could tell you i am on a higher level of consciousness than humans and do not consider myself a mortal accumulation of flesh but eternal consciousness. i told this to my neurologist who is also a psychiatrist, he is one of the most open minded and probably the most intelligent man i ever met and he can actually understand my idea. he doesn't experience it that way but he thinks it is absolutely possible and in no way has anything to do with being mentally ill or deluded etc.

actually he has hinted at the fact that i am far more intelligent than the rest of the species and it is nice to talk to someone who is so smart, ones views are irrelevant because there is no wall between the communication.

everything is possible and reality is simply a state of mind. schizophrenics for example are not mad but on a different level of perception. i could go on...


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Neuroscience said:


> no. diagnosed as perfectly mentally healthy. cannot see the connections between your question and the thread.
> 
> my post is a response to someone because the thread was closed.
> 
> ...


You need locking in a cage


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> no. diagnosed as perfectly mentally healthy. cannot see the connections between your question and the thread.
> 
> my post is a response to someone because the thread was closed.
> 
> ...


Sure he's not just telling you that to keep you on side so he can keep tabs on you :lol:


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Neuroscience

Have a read of this:

Superhappiness ?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

megatron said:


> You need locking in a cage


because i am a danger to others? see how full of hatred you are? why does this concept i mentioned bother you this deeply?

does it scare you?

fortunately the expert thinks otherwise.

you know you are, as most people, incredibly afraid of life right? that's why you do not want to understand it. because it is too shocking.

basically most are walking zombies with no awareness. on top of that it is interesting how many people would like to hurt another. if you would see me locked in a cage, would you feel more comfortable in your construct which you call reality?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

2004mark said:


> Sure he's not just telling you that to keep you on side so he can keep tabs on you :lol:


no, he has kicked patients out before. also, you can see when someone is interested. and when they tell you they like you and they want to come to your wedding. but you won't believe it.

oh btw, he doesn't charge me anymore. only when he writes a script he is obligated to charge a session.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> no. diagnosed as perfectly mentally healthy. cannot see the connections between your question and the thread.
> 
> my post is a response to someone because the thread was closed.
> 
> ...


Making a guess at the circles you move in I wouldnt consider that odd.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Neuroscience said:


> because i am a danger to others? see how full of hatred you are? why does this concept i mentioned bother you this deeply?
> 
> does it scare you?
> 
> ...


Dude, i've know crazies before, they chat shít just like you are on this thread. "I am the most intelligent man, not human any more"

Fact is - if you were so super intelligent you'd not be on a forum full of meatheads professing yourself, with a poor grasp of English. I've met some of the smartest people on the planet in my life and know my place well enough, you just need help. Yes I would say you are more than likely a danger to others with the nonsense you're spouting, sure sure this "expert" backs up your delusions.... Does he get paid by any chance? lol

Get a 2nd opinion

Also taking 160mg of Oxycodone a day (heroin) is NOT good for your mental health and probably why you're losing your **** and think you're beyond the human race.

Why don't you do us a favour and rapture into pure energy?


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

Neuroscience said:


> no. diagnosed as perfectly mentally healthy. cannot see the connections between your question and the thread.
> 
> my post is a response to someone because the thread was closed.
> 
> ...


What I don't understand is why you continually feel the need to post about your health and when one post runs its course you always start another 90% of the time about your health!

(Ok I was lying I completely understand why but that's between me and you eh :wink: )


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> because i am a danger to others? see how full of hatred you are? why does this concept i mentioned bother you this deeply?
> 
> does it scare you?
> 
> ...





Neuroscience said:


> *no, he has kicked patients out before*. also, you can see when someone is interested. and when they tell you they like you and they want to come to your wedding. but you won't believe it.
> 
> oh btw, he doesn't charge me anymore. only when he writes a script he is obligated to charge a session.


For an intelligent man hes a bit lax where peoples feelings are concerned, Im surprised you havent picked up on that from your lofty perch.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> poor training + poor diet + drugs = some gains
> 
> poor diet + hard training + drugs = better gains
> 
> ...


From what I've seen as well

Good diet + poor training + drugs = decent gains.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

latblaster said:


> @Neuroscience
> 
> Have a read of this:
> 
> Superhappiness ?


interesting, couldn't read it all but i think everyting that happens is part of a story that one needs to see the end of, at least for me.

constant happiness for example would simply stop the potential to find out where the world originates from. it is like hiding from the inevitable realisation of what one truly is.

but i could be wrong because my mind wasn't able to read everythin in detail right now.

but for example, everything that happened has led me to the present and this present is my story and looking at "coincidences", even the bad things had a reason which made me understand things better.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> interesting, couldn't read it all but i think everyting that happens is part of a story that one needs to see the end of, at least for me.
> 
> constant happiness for example would simply stop the potential to find out where the world originates from. it is like hiding from the inevitable realisation of what one truly is.
> 
> ...


is that because you are ill?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

megatron said:


> Dude, i've know crazies before, they chat shít just like you are on this thread. "I am the most intelligent man, not human any more"
> 
> Fact is - if you were so super intelligent you'd not be on a forum full of meatheads professing yourself, with a poor grasp of English. I've met some of the smartest people on the planet in my life and know my place well enough, you just need help. Yes I would say you are more than likely a danger to others with the nonsense you're spouting, sure sure this "expert" backs up your delusions.... Does he get paid by any chance? lol
> 
> ...


my english is excellent for a foreigner and i never said i wasn't human anymore. i never was human. i am experiencing humanity currently. there is no difference between anyone in the end, only temporary stages of development.

higher leves of awareness are not reserved for anyone special, everyone can get there, most are simply hiding from something that scares them. getting to know oneself can be quite scary.

the weird thing is that i would never hurt any of you intentionally, yet you cannot stand me being around.

also, what is with the constant insults and statements like poor grasp of english? simply because i forget a letter here and there i do not comprehend the language?

obviously i understand what people are saying.

why are you bothered by someone harmless? are the people you surround yourself with driven, aggressive, dopamine-type achievers? do you like the occasional physical confrontation?

did you know that almost all people are asssumed to have a personality disorder these days? people here speak about madness, crazies etc. but don't realize they are most likely heavily disturbed in their behaviour and emotional responses. those are the true dangerous people.

you are more dangerous than me for sure. i don think it unlikely that you would like to beat me up for example.

i heard that british can be very aggressive but in wales i found many nice people. it seems in some parts of the rest of the UK there are a lot of quite angry people. i admit, i would be scared to tak openly about my philosophy or whatever you want to name it there. here in germany i don't. people may think it is nonsense but they do not feel as threatening to me.

btw, if you think i am weak or soft or whatever, it is true, i am not tough. but if necessary i could shoot someone. and despite my apparently unthreatening reactions, beating me up with a group of people or something like that would not be a good idea.

yet i will never seek physical confrontation.

i have heard so much stuff here that hints at people wanting me to suffer. get locked up, die, whatever. have you not found someone more worthy of punishment than someone who has never done anything bad to anyone. just prevented some deaths, suicides, give homeless money and so on. what an asshole...lol


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## Beats (Jun 9, 2011)

What a bizzare thread


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

sorry if ive missed but what is the actual chronic illness you have??


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

banzi said:


> For an intelligent man hes a bit lax where peoples feelings are concerned, Im surprised you havent picked up on that from your lofty perch.


what do you mean? he was kidnapped once in forensic psychiatry by a patient whose gf smugged a gun, a swat team came. he said he was more afraid of them than the an, because he only wanted out. afterwards he kept treating him.

the guy he kicked out was apparently not in need of help and being impolite. he dislikes impoliteness very much. it is all about an open minded approach. if someone is being an ass, why treat him if he doesn't need it? and yes, he can tell within an hour wether someone is in need or not. assholeness is not one of the illnesses he treats i think.


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## meateon (Jan 14, 2015)

Neuroscience said:


> what do you mean? he was kidnapped once in forensic psychiatry by a patient whose gf smugged a gun, a swat team came. he said he was more afraid of them than the an, because he only wanted out. afterwards he kept treating him.
> 
> the guy he kicked out was apparently not in need of help and being impolite. he dislikes impoliteness very much. it is all about an open minded approach. if someone is being an ass, why treat him if he doesn't need it? and yes, he can tell within an hour wether someone is in need or not. assholeness is not one of the illnesses he treats i think.


I think you need mental help pal, how can you believe you are above the human race and more superior than every other human being? The way you speak is not like a normal person, yet you claim to hold superior intelligence when you can barely string a basic sentence together. I thought basic English skills were taught before any other subject?


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## mlydon (Dec 4, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> what do you mean? he was kidnapped once in forensic psychiatry by a patient whose gf smugged a gun, a swat team came. he said he was more afraid of them than the an, because he only wanted out. afterwards he kept treating him.
> 
> the guy he kicked out was apparently not in need of help and being impolite. he dislikes impoliteness very much. it is all about an open minded approach. if someone is being an ass, why treat him if he doesn't need it? and yes, he can tell within an hour wether someone is in need or not. assholeness is not one of the illnesses he treats i think.


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## Chrisallan (Jul 11, 2014)

Mate,I'm open minded enough to listen to what anybody says,regarding all number of things,but would it not be better to post your feelings on a forum that has other people on it,who think like you?

Then,you wouldn't get offended or hurt by the obvious replies you are going to get on here.

I like your posts about the supplements you use and have tried some of the pre workouts you have recommended,but for the one or two people on here,who "get" what you are talking about,there are probably hundreds who are going to mock you.

You are definitely a one off,that's for sure!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> *what do you mean? he was kidnapped once in forensic psychiatry by a patient whose gf smugged a gun, a swat team came.* he said he was more afraid of them than the an, because he only wanted out. afterwards he kept treating him.
> 
> the guy he kicked out was apparently not in need of help and being impolite. he dislikes impoliteness very much. it is all about an open minded approach. if someone is being an ass, why treat him if he doesn't need it? and yes, he can tell within an hour wether someone is in need or not. assholeness is not one of the illnesses he treats i think.


That didnt happen in the UK.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Chrisallan said:


> Mate,I'm open minded enough to listen to what anybody says,regarding all number of things,*but would it not be better to post your feelings on a forum that has other people on it,who think like you?*
> 
> Then,you wouldn't get offended or hurt by the obvious replies you are going to get on here.
> 
> ...


Home | Looney Tunes


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

meateon said:


> I think you need mental help pal, how can you believe you are above the human race and more superior than every other human being? The way you speak is not like a normal person, yet you claim to hold superior intelligence when you can barely string a basic sentence together. I thought basic English skills were taught before any other subject?


what is with the constant remarks about my engish skills? i am perfectly fluent, eloquent and articulate.

also i never said i was superior, i said i am at a place in consciousness which everybody can access but is hiding from. everyones origin and where everyone will go back to. separation is really an illusion, the world is not separate and outside from oneself.

please, can someone explain which aspects of the english language i am not capable of using or understanding and what is wrong wit not speaking ike a normal person? the norm is defined by the largest group in a society and not an absolute, it is completely dependant on various factors. it seems people want to be normal but get really threatened when someone is not normal. but why care when said "person" doesn't harm you or has anything to do with your life whatsoever.

i asked a few people who i know and who know me quite well, why many people seem to have a problem with me, even when i do not even talk about anything relevant. could just be asking what the time is or say that i had granola for breakfast yet people look at me with this deep confusion and when i talk i try to avoid any subjects that will confuse people too much. so the answer was that they feel that i am different and they are afraid of me, as i am questioning their whole idea of themeves and the world and i pick apart the construct they live in and make it really fragile and people want to stay in their little home they have built in their minds. strangely, i never attack people or directly approach them or comment on their ideas or beliefs etc.

do you guys feel like somebody knows you fully? do you feel you know yourself or are these questions you do not have?

there are 2 people that can see me, all the others see something completely different.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> what is with the constant remarks about my engish skills? i am perfectly fluent, eloquent and articulate.
> 
> also i never said i was superior, i said i am at a place in consciousness which everybody can access but is hiding from. everyones origin and where everyone will go back to. separation is really an illusion, the world is not separate and outside from oneself.
> 
> ...


Nope, I think its the other way around, most here see you for what you are mate.



> what is with the constant remarks about my engish skills? i am perfectly fluent, eloquent and articulate.


Its subtle troll posts like those that give you away.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

Chrisallan said:


> Mate,I'm open minded enough to listen to what anybody says,regarding all number of things,but would it not be better to post your feelings on a forum that has other people on it,who think like you?
> 
> Then,you wouldn't get offended or hurt by the obvious replies you are going to get on here.
> 
> ...


i am not offended, i am not still here to defend myself. i am interested in learning more about why people are the way they are. i am also doing something that many may not have realized, but i refrain from responding with insults or aggression. i am not like that in real. i will tell people to go **** themselves. it was just interesting to see how mad and how aggressive it made people and at the same time made them feel like they had found a victim. i am sure ost here have someone they have to dea with in their lives that they hate, make them miserable, ruin there day but due to circumstances they cannot fight back. in-laws, bosses etc. then i suppose many look for some way to let the presssure out. find someone to put down and bellittle.

the things is, i have nobody who i need to show respect, i can decide wether i want to or not. that's maybe why i do not feel the need to insult others.

i remember though, at a time i was much unhappier i was also much more confrontational.

i get a few pms of members saying to ignore te idiots (those are there words) and not let it drag me down. thing is, it doesn't, i am trying to understand why people get so hateful about certain things.

i think people who are unkind do not like kind, compassionate people. when they pour their hatred onto them and the response is still not a reaction of anger or insults, it makes them want to kill that one...lol


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

The blokes on 160mg of oxy a day, it's amiracle he can think


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> i am not offended, i am not still here to defend myself. i am interested in learning more about why people are the way they are. i am also doing something that many may not have realized, but i refrain from responding with insults or aggression. i am not like that in real. *i will tell people to go **** themselves.* it was just interesting to see how mad and how aggressive it made people and at the same time made them feel like they had found a victim. i am sure ost here have someone they have to dea with in their lives that they hate, make them miserable, ruin there day but due to circumstances they cannot fight back. in-laws, bosses etc. then i suppose many look for some way to let the presssure out. find someone to put down and bellittle.
> 
> the things is, i have nobody who i need to show respect, i can decide wether i want to or not. that's *maybe why i do not feel the need to insult others.*
> 
> ...


Your contradictory posting designed to initiate a response is now getting boring, you need to change the record mate, the act is wearing a little thin.

Its subtle trolling, normally you would get away with it, unfortunately you have over egged the pudding.

Oh, and for the record, no one hates you, no one gives a fuk about you.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

1. Stop being a junkie

2. Stop droning on a public forum about your perceived superiority

3. Stop winging about being the victim

I'm out,t he bloke is either a junkie or a wind up merchant or both


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

no, that is my breakfast. it is up to 640 on bad days. also 200mg diazepam, 1200mg quetiapin and 100mg dexamphetamin.

i don't think. this is leftovers from before my brain gave up. i can still **** and make coffee basically after my first breakfast.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Okay, So after reading through this thread I can only conclude, although you come across as a very articulate individual you seem to read far to much into things. You have your own views and opinions which is fine, I would not expect it to be any different. However It does become quite apparent that you do have a lot of time on your hands which maybe a side-effect to your illness. Illness depending upon severity can and will have a profound effect the human mind which manifest themselves in numerous ways, deep depression for example. Some of your comments I actually find quite disturbing *"if necessary i could shoot someone"* for example. This comment has a profound classic psychological trait. You are either trying to threaten people in a none threatening manor or you have deep routed mental problems (Anders Breivik). Again maybe a underling condition of your illness.

Your somewhat random posts will be the subject of some ridicule as they do not come across as normal. This is very understandable given your illness and subsequent state of mind. I am 100% sure that not one person on this forum wants to hurt you in anyway. Its a forum for discussion nothing more. People will use it for humor while discussing various topics so it should be taken for what it is.

Have you ever considered therapy or been checked out for mental illness alongside your other conditions? You might find it a helpful tool in battling any daemons you have which lurk within.

Like you say it can be scary to really know yourself. My question is.... DO YOU?


----------



## meateon (Jan 14, 2015)

Neuroscience said:


> what is with the constant remarks about my engish skills? i am perfectly fluent, eloquent and articulate.
> 
> also i never said i was superior, i said i am at a place in consciousness which everybody can access but is hiding from. everyones origin and where everyone will go back to. separation is really an illusion, the world is not separate and outside from oneself.
> 
> ...


You may be fluent in speaking, speaking and typing are a complete different thing. Your grammar is poor at best, No one on here is saying they are more intelligent than others, Only you. Everyone is being themselves and not portraying to be someone that they are not. The reason people are getting confused is not because you are more intellectual or intelligent. Maybe it is more to the point that you try to speak deeply into subjects with no relevance to make your self sound more superior and intelligent than you actually are therefore making no sense what so ever. Give up the act, you aren't fooling anyone.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Neuroscience said:


> no, that is my breakfast. it is up to 640 on bad days. also 200mg diazepam, 1200mg quetiapin and 100mg dexamphetamin.
> 
> i don't think. this is leftovers from before my brain gave up. i can still **** and make coffee basically after my first breakfast.


there you go... Your brain is ****ed from drugs mate. You're so smart you got yourself hooked on unbelievable doses of the most dangerous and addictive drugs on the planet

*clap clap*

All makes sense now, most herion junkies couldn't tolerate that cocktail.


----------



## meateon (Jan 14, 2015)

Natty Steve said:


> Okay' date=' So after reading through this thread I can only conclude, although you come across as a very articulate individual you seem to read far to much into things. You have your own views and opinions which is fine, I would not expect it to be any different. However It does become quite apparent that you do have a lot of time on your hands which maybe a side-effect to your illness. Illness depending upon severity can and will have a profound effect the human mind which manifest themselves in numerous ways, deep depression for example. Some of your comments I actually find quite disturbing [b']"if necessary i could shoot someone" for example. This comment has a profound classic psychological trait. You are either trying to threaten people in a none threatening manor or you have deep routed mental problems (Anders Breivik). Again maybe a underling condition of your illness.
> 
> Your somewhat random posts will be the subject of some ridicule as they do not come across as normal. This is very understandable given your illness and subsequent state of mind. I am 100% sure that not one person on this forum wants to hurt you in anyway. Its a forum for discussion nothing more. People will use it for humor while discussing various topics so it should be taken for what it is.
> 
> ...


I take my hat off to you, Could not have explained it any better.


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

So what is the chronic illness? And you say you're not mentally ill but you take medication that treats mental illness and see a psychiatrist - very confusing

And I very much doubt your dosages of medication - 200mg of diazepam a day, course


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> Okay' date=' So after reading through this thread I can only conclude, although you come across as a very articulate individual you seem to read far to much into things. You have your own views and opinions which is fine, I would not expect it to be any different. However It does become quite apparent that you do have a lot of time on your hands which maybe a side-effect to your illness. Illness depending upon severity can and will have a profound effect the human mind which manifest themselves in numerous ways, deep depression for example. Some of your comments I actually find quite disturbing [b']"if necessary i could shoot someone" for example. This comment has a profound classic psychological trait. You are either trying to threaten people in a none threatening manor or you have deep routed mental problems (Anders Breivik). Again maybe a underling condition of your illness.
> 
> Your somewhat random posts will be the subject of some ridicule as they do not come across as normal. This is very understandable given your illness and subsequent state of mind. I am 100% sure that not one person on this forum wants to hurt you in anyway. Its a forum for discussion nothing more. People will use it for humor while discussing various topics so it should be taken for what it is.
> 
> ...


Pssst

Hes just trolling.

Dont take anything he says seriously.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

benno_2010 said:


> So what is the chronic illness? And you say you're not mentally ill but you take medication that treats mental illness and see a psychiatrist - very confusing
> 
> *And I very much doubt your dosages of medication - 200mg of diazepam a day, course*



View attachment 165555


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

This guy is genuinely mentally ill. He is psychotic, delusional, manic and deeply paranoid. He has expressed in the past that he kill everybody around him in seconds, with just his bare bands.

He does need to be sectioned for his safety, and more importantly, the safety of others. It is just a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone. If he were in the UK I'd report him to the relevant authorities myself.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> Pssst
> 
> Hes just trolling.
> 
> Dont take anything he says seriously.


Shhhh.... Thanks for the hint. :wacko:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Archaic said:


> This guy is genuinely mentally ill. He is psychotic, delusional, manic and deeply paranoid. *He has expressed in the past that he kill everybody around him in seconds, with just his bare bands.*
> 
> He does need to be sectioned for his safety, and more importantly, the safety of others. It is just a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone. If he were in the UK I'd report him to the relevant authorities myself.


lol, hes too weak to get out of bed FFS.


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

Neuroscience said:


> no, that is my breakfast. it is up to 640 on bad days. also 200mg diazepam, 1200mg quetiapin and 100mg dexamphetamin.
> 
> i don't think. this is leftovers from before my brain gave up. i can still **** and make coffee basically after my first breakfast.


Quetiapin =Efficacy in schizophrenia has been reported with doses ranging from 150 to 750 mg/day. Maximum clinical effect has been reported at 300 mg/day. The safety of doses above 800 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials.

Dexamphetamine= up to 60 mg per day in 2 to 3 divided doses for narcolepsy

Diazepam =at 10 to 15 minute intervals up to a maximum dose of 30 mg

These are the maximum doses that a doctor will prescribe ,so I have no idea what planet you are on with your Bullsh1t.


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## meateon (Jan 14, 2015)

gearchange said:


> Quetiapin =Efficacy in schizophrenia has been reported with doses ranging from 150 to 750 mg/day. Maximum clinical effect has been reported at 300 mg/day. The safety of doses above 800 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials.
> 
> Dexamphetamine= up to 60 mg per day in 2 to 3 divided doses for narcolepsy
> 
> ...


So we have a schizophrenic, narcoleptic, none sleeping mad man on our hands. Makes sense really


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Archaic said:


> This guy is genuinely mentally ill. He is psychotic, delusional, manic and deeply paranoid. He has expressed in the past that he kill everybody around him in seconds, with just his bare bands.
> 
> He does need to be sectioned for his safety, and more importantly, the safety of others. It is just a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone. If he were in the UK I'd report him to the relevant authorities myself.


This


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

meateon said:


> So we have a schizophrenic, narcoleptic, none sleeping mad man on our hands. Makes sense really


On ASS!

Anders Breivik eat ya heart out.....


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

gearchange said:


> Quetiapin =Efficacy in schizophrenia has been reported with doses ranging from 150 to 750 mg/day. Maximum clinical effect has been reported at 300 mg/day. The safety of doses above 800 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials.
> 
> Dexamphetamine= up to 60 mg per day in 2 to 3 divided doses for narcolepsy
> 
> ...


Lol where did he post that?? Funny that he didn't mention it when I repeatedly asked him yesterday!

What a lot need to realise is that with neurosciences problem or as far as I'm concerned disorder the more you entertain him the more satisfaction he gets funnily enough like a "normal" troll.

However he's not just a troll I'd hazard a guess that in the right circumstances neuroscience could be a very dangerous person!

Neuroscience at best your just delusional at worst you need another evaluation.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Verno said:


> Lol where did he post that?? Funny that he didn't mention it when I repeatedly asked him yesterday!
> 
> What a lot need to realise is that with neurosciences problem or as far as I'm concerned disorder the more you entertain him the more satisfaction he gets funnily enough like a "normal" troll.
> 
> ...


Im still at a loss as to why others haven't caught on yet.

Have you noticed how he avoids people who he knows are trolling him?

Guy knows exactly what hes doing.

He will go away for a while soon and come back again with the same script.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Yesterday you said that you take up to 480mg of Oxycontin, today it's up to 640mg.

Tomorrow?

You sure you're not smoking it - serious question?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I urge anyone to go through his post history and come back here and say they take him seriously.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/search.php?searchid=6693536

just go back through and pick random posts.

Its not posting its performance art.


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

banzi said:


> Im still at a loss as to why others haven't caught on yet.
> 
> Have you noticed how he avoids people who he knows are trolling him?
> 
> ...


Of course he will and it will be the same persecuted, self loathing superiority complex as before!

He wants to chuck in some Lorazepam and haloperidol with his diazepam and if he's really naughty some Zuclopenthixol too!


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> Okay' date=' So after reading through this thread I can only conclude, although you come across as a very articulate individual you seem to read far to much into things. You have your own views and opinions which is fine, I would not expect it to be any different. However It does become quite apparent that you do have a lot of time on your hands which maybe a side-effect to your illness. Illness depending upon severity can and will have a profound effect the human mind which manifest themselves in numerous ways, deep depression for example. Some of your comments I actually find quite disturbing [b']"if necessary i could shoot someone" for example. This comment has a profound classic psychological trait. You are either trying to threaten people in a none threatening manor or you have deep routed mental problems (Anders Breivik). Again maybe a underling condition of your illness.
> 
> Your somewhat random posts will be the subject of some ridicule as they do not come across as normal. This is very understandable given your illness and subsequent state of mind. I am 100% sure that not one person on this forum wants to hurt you in anyway. Its a forum for discussion nothing more. People will use it for humor while discussing various topics so it should be taken for what it is.
> 
> ...


i will answer you as the last person, since you took some time and seem to have no negative intention. i am in treatment for a neuroimmunological dysfunction of which the trigger is unknown but the symptoms are and are being treated with medication. i meant that if someone hurt my girlfriend fr example or my dad and i would not have to go to prison i could kill them. i think i would spend a ot of time reflecting upon that though.

since my neurologist is also a psychiatrist and most likely the best in the country with lot of influence, very intellectual and authoritative but at the same time kind, gentle and careful. he says i am mentally fine, a really nice guy and have an incredible sensitivity towards myself, my body, the effects of drugs and also others around me, so he let's me contribute a lot to my girlfriends therapy who has an actual endogenous psychosis inherited from her mother. he allows me to adjust dosages or give extra doses in emergenc cases as i see fit, as he knows i understand enough about neurochemistry and drug interactions. he also says i am the best that could have happened to her and there is nobody more able to care for her than me.

we are never mean to each other and will spend the rest of our lives together.

people here have called me mad, a junkie, told me i am not ill and said i should be locked up.

i know myself so well i use discussions like these to actually distract myself from myself, as absurd as it sounds. some nice insults and stuff can be more comfortable than what one finds when one drops all preconceived ideas.

i am not going to go into it anymore, but i know in some parts, yet not fully, how matter is consciousness and the world has not been created or appeared by a big bang but is eternal witout beginning and end. time does not move inearly into one direction but there is no time, it is only part of one of the things i am perceiving in this current story i am experiencing. in the end the question is after pysical death, will i accept that which i know will come and what i am or if it will be still intolerable for me. so yeah, maybe i should try to get rid of the fear of being alone (all-one). i just hope i can see my girlfriend again.

i suppose what makes the biggest difference is that people think they are in a world outside of thwm which is separate from them and keeps existing after their body dies. however, matter needs a conscious witness to exist and since i am currently witnessing the world, this one will disappear with the disappearance of my body, after which there will be only the self left. that which is inside of everybody and everybody is inide of. there is no difference between inner and outer, the space here is the same space as everywhere else. since something finit would need a kind of wall, something surrounding it, that means that there would have to be something outside of that and so on, which means that there cannot be an end to anything. there was no beginning either, what was before this beginning? nothing? nothing is also something. all there is is consciousness which has split into an infinite number of shapes and forms in order to share its infinite content and most of all love. the self split so all that endless beauty and love that it carries could be shared.

since you will not accept it as fact you may call it philosophy.

btw i have helped several mentally ill people and even prevented some from comitting suicide. i am far from mentally ill. i am spiritual, 90%of my mental activity comes from within (while for others it is mostly exogenous information on the job etc) and i am not a drug addict, i was, for the first time actually bull****ting about those dosages. by the way, contradictions do not make someone lower in credibility, they are natural and a sign of movement versus remaining static.

best regards


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Your written english seems to have suddenly improved.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

full of shít - bored now


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## meateon (Jan 14, 2015)

" i meant that if someone hurt my girlfriend fr example or my dad and i would not have to go to prison i could kill them."

I don't know what planet you are on but you cannot get away with killing anyone! If you are not in a stable mental state when killing someone it will not be classed as murder but it will be classed as manslaughter because of diminished responsibility down to mental health, so you therefore would have to stay in a mental hospital inevitably. You cannot just walk the streets after killing somebody, Also telling your doctor on how much medication to prescribe you?? Hahaha you are an absolute joke.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

megatron said:


> Absolute horse shít
> 
> It's 90% diet, drugs are a minor part imo


Not minor at all, they do play a significant role- you can't achieve a body on drugs naturally lol


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> i will answer you as the last person, since you took some time and seem to have no negative intention. i am in treatment for a neuroimmunological dysfunction of which the trigger is unknown but the symptoms are and are being treated with medication. i meant that if someone hurt my girlfriend fr example or my dad and i would not have to go to prison i could kill them. i think i would spend a ot of time reflecting upon that though.
> 
> since my neurologist is also a psychiatrist and most likely the best in the country with lot of influence, very intellectual and authoritative but at the same time kind, gentle and careful. he says i am mentally fine, a really nice guy and have an incredible sensitivity towards myself, my body, the effects of drugs and also others around me, so he let's me contribute a lot to my girlfriends therapy who has an actual endogenous psychosis inherited from her mother. he allows me to adjust dosages or give extra doses in emergenc cases as i see fit, as he knows i understand enough about neurochemistry and drug interactions. he also says i am the best that could have happened to her and there is nobody more able to care for her than me.
> 
> ...


To be frank and totally honest I find this post full of self indulgent drivel. Now your GF is NUT JOB TOO! You state you have medical professionals allowing to to self administer huge amounts of drugs not only to your self but to your GF. You even state you have lied, misled people regarding dosages of drugs!

I put it to you that you have been outed by your own arrogance by thinking people are stupid. If I find one piece of bull-**** in what is supposed to be a sincere post then all of that post with every other post which has been posted or is to be posted in the future by you will be treat with the same contempt as the pile of sh1t you have just wrote.

My diagnosis as a physiologist for you comes in two parts.

1) You have a head full of broken toys.

2) You have a head full of mad dogs sh1te...

Both of these conditions are not treatable......


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

View attachment 165557


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## mig8888 (Jul 27, 2010)

Neuroscience said:


> since it has been said someone chronically ill dependent on medications ike cancer patients cannot look like me, i wanted to state the following. im not pro or anything but you will see the points how little diet and training means and how much it is just the drugs. i am not proud of it, but i have no choice, so i deserve this body simply for still following my passion.
> 
> "just looking in here thinking i won't post anymore. but this is me telling you honestly. i was natural before i got ill.
> 
> ...


You can take all the drugs in the world buddy but if you're shovelling **** down your throat every day and taking in way to many calories you will look crap. You will be big though lol. Diet is key but that's not to say gear does not play a big role especially in top level bodybuilding.


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

if this would be true, it would be a lot more pros...

it's a combo of many things.. also lots of sacrifices that not everyone want to give in..


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## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

> since my neurologist is also a psychiatrist and most likely the best in the country with lot of influence, very intellectual and authoritative but at the same time kind, gentle and careful. he says i am mentally fine, a really nice guy and have an incredible sensitivity towards myself, my body, the effects of drugs and also others around me


Admit it, you're cheating on your girlfriend with him.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

IC1 said:


> Admit it, you're cheating on your girlfriend with him.


She doesn't care though.....I don't think she knows she's his girlfriend.....Hes just a bloke who comes and gives her her drugs then her special medicine when shes out of it! :wink:

This is wrong on so many levels.... :huh:


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## the wee man (Dec 17, 2014)

latblaster said:


> @Neuroscience
> 
> Have a read of this:
> 
> Superhappiness ?


that made my head hurt :confused1:

cheers shaun


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

that is incredible...

nut job? an illness of the brain which is genetic is a real illness.

so disrespectful. everyone who knows us incuding her parents have seen how much happier she is since she is with me. i take care of her and protect her all the time. she is completely clear minded but needs medication because without she will hear voices or hallucinate. she was born this way.

disrespect me all you want but don't disrespet her or doubt the fact that i have given joy to her life, we love each other like nobody else and will never leave each other. everyone who knows us or sees us says you too are perfect for each other or: when is the wedding.

you would probably have empathy for someone who lost a leg but you have absolutely no idea, as nobody else in this thread has.

it's funny though when i read about relationships and their problems...seems people argue and are miserable all the time. and nobody stays together. well funny...the drug addict and the nutjob are happy together or reconsider.

guy with physical illness. girl with genetically inherited illness of the brain, an organ. like diabetes or thyroid disease. some hormones are missing or out of balance and need to be restored. calling someone with genetic mental illness a nutjob is the worst of the worst. there is nothing worse than pychosis and you will never understand how much courage it takes to commit to things and try to manage your life. anyone in a wheelchair is so much better off.

by a million times. i had underestimated your extreme ignorance. i hope nobody ever calls her that in front of me...you are lucky. i told you, if someone hurts my gf...

i don't care how tough you think you are. if you were in germany i would have a few of you locked up in forensic psychiatry 

might bring you a pack of smokes once in a while. all of you have personality disorders. read about them. one will fit you.

take good care


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> that is incredible...
> 
> nut job? an illness of the brain which is genetic is a real illness.
> 
> ...


This is all white noise fella. I've never even read it......You lost me when you started to take the **** with you bull**** lies. Why not go post on a nut case forum where people might give a sh1t?

Hitlers fukin love child. He was as mad as a march hare too...


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

*Every single thing you write has NO creditability * :thumbdown:


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

you read it. and you will never know love. actually i should feel sorry for most here, because you carry no love in your hearts. why even live?


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Why are people doubting drugs is by far the most important when all the top bodybuilders are on steroids?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

ellisrimmer said:


> Why are people doubting drugs is by far the most important when all the top bodybuilders are on steroids?


Because they are not the be all and end all. You need to train FFS The drugs come second to training. Training putting the work in makes the drugs do their stuff.

This is the problem for vast amounts of recreational users. The drugs themselves are not a magic formula, pair them with fcuking hard work and dedication then bingo.


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## Chrisallan (Jul 11, 2014)

> Because they are not the be all and end all. You need to train FFS The drugs come second to training. Training putting the work in makes the drugs do their stuff.
> 
> This is the problem for vast amounts of recreational users. The drugs themselves are not a magic formula, pair them with fcuking hard work and dedication then bingo.


I agree with you,but look at the transformation of Boston Lloyd.

The amount of drugs he took to get in that condition is crazy and I don't think he would have got into that condition,ie,stage ready,without taking those amounts.

Of course you have to train like a demon,with consistency and eat with consistency,but I would say,in his case,the drugs played a huge part.

It would be interesting ,if it was possible ,to do a study on a few pro body builders and deduct how much of each thing (eating,training,drug use) contributes to their body's.


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## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

> Because they are not the be all and end all. You need to train FFS The drugs come second to training. Training putting the work in makes the drugs do their stuff.
> 
> This is the problem for vast amounts of recreational users. The drugs themselves are not a magic formula, pair them with fcuking hard work and dedication then bingo.


Pair them with hard work and good nutrition and you've got the optimal combination.

Having said that, time and time again you see someone join a gym, do the whole training, nutrition, supplements thing, get some good results, look like a regular gym user that lifts, nothing special. Then they layer on drugs and it's next level growth and far far quicker than the previous two combined were.

In terms of actual results, the biggest results come from the drugs for most people.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> Because they are not the be all and end all. You need to train FFS The drugs come second to training. Training putting the work in makes the drugs do their stuff.
> 
> This is the problem for vast amounts of recreational users. The drugs themselves are not a magic formula, pair them with fcuking hard work and dedication then bingo.


So are you for, or against AAS? I can never tell with your posts..

For a natty you sure do spend allot of time reading the AAS section too!


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> So are you for, or against AAS? I can never tell with your posts..
> 
> For a natty you sure do spend allot of time reading the AAS section too!


Personally I wont take it. If others do then that's their choice. As for being on the ass section I read through many posts in many sections and comment where I fee,l simples


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Archaic said:


> So are you for, or against AAS? I can never tell with your posts..
> 
> For a natty you sure do spend allot of time reading the AAS section too!


I think he has just given the game away.

He claims he doesnt take them yet "bingo" they are magic pills.

If thats the case then why be natty?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> *Personally I wont take it.* If others do then that's their choice. As for being on the ass section I read through many posts in many sections and comment where I fee' date=l simples
> 
> Why?


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

50% Drugs

20% Training

20% Food

10% Resting


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Natty Steve said:


> Personally I wont take it. If others do then that's their choice. As for being on the ass section I read through many posts in many sections and comment where I fee' date='l simples  [/quote']
> 
> Ok mate.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> I think he has just given the game away.
> 
> He claims he doesnt take them yet "bingo" they are magic pills.
> 
> If thats the case then why be natty?


I don't compete fella. Competing does not interest me in the slightest. I train for other more personal reasons. I am and always will be drug free. I have reached bigger and better shapes over the years than a majority of the recreational users as I call them. I feel within-myself that this is a far greater achievement than letting drugs do this for me. Its just who I am so get used to it. 

I am continuing my bulk until the end of March then I will reduce my calorific intake while maintaining my training routine. This is a tried and tested method which I have used over the years so watch this space.

My current stats:


----------



## Lean&amp;Mean&amp;Clean (May 9, 2008)

there is something right in the title opf the thread though, remember when Victor MArtinez got arrested at the airport for immigration issues and then 6 months later he did not even looked like a bodybuilder or with any kind of potential for it. Now he's rolling again in a very short time frame,not in his best shape though


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Lean&Mean&Clean said:


> there is something right in the title opf the thread though, remember when Victor MArtinez got arrested at the airport for immigration issues and then 6 months later he did not even looked like a bodybuilder or with any kind of potential for it. Now he's rolling again in a very short time frame,not in his best shape though


That's what happens when you don't train eat and have the drugs - you need all 3 simple as that - I remember seeing a pic of him when he was out of prison he looked scrawny as **** lol


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> *I don't compete fella.* Competing does not interest me in the slightest. I train for other more personal reasons. I am and always will be drug free. I have reached bigger and better shapes over the years than a majority of the recreational users as I call them. I feel within-myself that this is a far greater achievement than letting drugs do this for me. Its just who I am so get used to it.
> 
> I am continuing my bulk until the end of March then I will reduce my calorific intake while maintaining my training routine. This is a tried and tested method which I have used over the years so watch this space.


Lol, why should the justification of taking gear have anything to do with competing?

A plastic trophy for parading around in front of a load of schmos being judged by people who haven't even dieted yet alone stepped onstage.

I have more understanding when people say I use gear to pull the birds.

You still havent said why you dont use gear by the way,


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> Lol, why should the justification of taking gear have anything to do with competing?
> 
> A plastic trophy for parading around in front of a load of schmos being judged by people who haven't even dieted yet alone stepped onstage.
> 
> ...


Because I feel I would be cheating myself... Now get this.....I want to know what I can achieve naturally without the use of drugs.... simples Sorry if that's boring!

I'm also subject to random drugs tests at work.


----------



## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

> Because I feel I would be cheating myself... Now get this.....I want to know what I can achieve naturally without the use of drugs.... simples Sorry if that's boring!
> 
> I'm also subject to random drugs tests at work.


Even steroid tests Steve? We get random tests but not steroids. They're fookin expensive I know that much.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> Because I feel I would be cheating myself... Now get this.....I want to know what I can achieve naturally without the use of drugs.... simples Sorry if that's boring!
> 
> I'm also subject to random drugs tests at work.


So its a moral issue?

Now lets have a look at cheating.



> cheat
> 
> t?i?t/Submit
> 
> ...


Bearing in mind you are not competing with drug free athletes how are you cheating?


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

Neuroscience acting the jack of all trades, spilling a lie or 2 with every sentence.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> I don't compete fella. Competing does not interest me in the slightest. I train for other more personal reasons. I am and always will be drug free. I have reached bigger and better shapes over the years than a majority of the recreational users as I call them. I feel within-myself that this is a far greater achievement than letting drugs do this for me. Its just who I am so get used to it.
> 
> I am continuing my bulk until the end of March then I will reduce my calorific intake while maintaining my training routine. This is a tried and tested method which I have used over the years so watch this space.
> 
> My current stats:


whats that supposed to prove?


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

saxondale said:


> whats that supposed to prove?


15% bodyfat


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> So its a moral issue?
> 
> Now lets have a look at cheating.
> 
> Bearing in mind you are not competing with drug free athletes how are you cheating?


1) I don't compete with anyone as stated in my post????

2) Cheating myself. The answer is in my previous post.

Morals have nothing to do with it, it is basic personal preference. I don't need drugs to achieve the body size and shape I want. Its that simple!

As for the drug test question I don't have a clue what substances are tested for. I don't really care, I don't take any recreational or enhancing drugs of any sort So I have never questioned it. I would probably say the test would be quite an in depth test considering that people often die/get killed doing my line of work. Its a dangerous place. I work in the gas and Oil Industry.

I will be quite happy with 18" arms, 50" chest etc @ 10% bf. I'm not too far away from these goals as a natural lifter. I feel its very achievable with some hard work thrown in over the coming year..


----------



## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

> 1) I don't compete with anyone as stated in my post????
> 
> 2) Cheating myself. The answer is in my previous post.
> 
> ...


Don't feel you have to justify not taking drugs mate.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I don't mate, I think its the other way around. Its the users whoare trying to justify taking. As soon as someone has good size through hard work and dedication they scream ass..... :wink: Sad really.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Tbf tho Steve, you do make it well known that you are drug free and I don't recall anybody ever asking you if you weren't on this board. Not till you started posting diss in the AAS section anyway.

You even put Natty in your username nick aswell lol, just so nobody was mistaken. Do you talk about it often in real life, or is it something that has built up inside to the point of needing to vent online?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> 1) I don't compete with anyone as stated in my post????
> 
> 2) Cheating myself. The answer is in my previous post.
> 
> ...


So what bodyweight do think you are going to be at 10% bf?

There are bodymass calculators out there to establish natty limits.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Ps. I hope that fruit loop Neuroscience is happy with himself, starting all this sh1t and then fcuking off leaving us all to it :laugh:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> So what bodyweight do think you are going to be at 10% bf?
> 
> There are bodymass calculators out there to establish natty limits.


215-220lb ish

I know as that is what I used. A very good one by all accounts with some solid data to back it up.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> Tbf tho Steve, you do make it well known that you are drug free and I don't recall anybody ever asking you if you weren't on this board. Not till you started posting diss in the AAS section anyway.
> 
> You even put Natty in your username nick aswell lol, just so nobody was mistaken. Do you talk about it often in real life, or is it something that has built up inside to the point of needing to vent online?


LOL are you srs ....a bit bizarre..... tbh I never really look what sections I post in, as said I post where I feel.

No I'm in discussing the pro's n cones with anyone who wants. Ask a question and I may respond. :confused1:

for every users side there must be a none users side also, otherwise it would not be a discussion!


----------



## Chrisallan (Jul 11, 2014)

I worked in the gas and oil industry for 20 years and I never got tested for steroids and don't know anybody else who has.

They test for recreational drugs and I only ever got tested when I was starting a job with certain companies.

I never got a random.

There were rumours that they were going to start testing for steriods,but the cost is what is stopping them from doing it.


----------



## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

> 1) I don't compete with anyone as stated in my post????
> 
> 2) Cheating myself. The answer is in my previous post.
> 
> ...


Lol easy tiger, it was a genuine question I was interested thats all considering the costs involved to test for aas.

Woks in gas and oil? With a temper like that??...............Gotta be juicing:wink:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Verno said:


> Lol easy tiger, it was a genuine question I was interested thats all considering the costs involved to test for aas.
> 
> Woks in gas and oil? With a temper like that??...............Gotta be juicing:wink:


To pick temper up from words is down to the reader. So back at you.... the temper or state of mind is yours lol  Very calm, honest and to the point. easily picked up wrong :innocent:


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> LOL are you srs ....a bit bizarre..... tbh I never really look what sections I post in, as said I post where I feel.
> 
> No I'm in discussing the pro's n cones with anyone who wants. Ask a question and I may respond. :confused1:
> 
> for every users side there must be a none users side also, otherwise it would not be a discussion!


How can you have a discussion about something you have no experience in though? It would be like me going on Mumsnet and telling them what's what with morning sickness... My Mrs has been pregnant, so that makes my argument just as valid yeah, and they should take my advice on board???

Anwset is No.

It's your choice not to use AAS, but to take time out of your day to go actively seeking an AAS section and start posting condescending jibes - it's a bit sad..


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Chrisallan said:


> I worked in the gas and oil industry for 20 years and I never got tested for steroids and don't know anybody else who has.
> 
> They test for recreational drugs and I only ever got tested when I was starting a job with certain companies.
> 
> ...


I suppose its company dependent, what there policy is etc. Where were you Aberdeen?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> 215-220lb ish
> 
> I know as that is what I used. A very good one by all accounts with some solid data to back it up.


A No Bull**** Formula



> The formula is simple, yet surprisingly accurate and predictive of real world results.
> 
> The formula goes as follows:
> 
> ...


----------



## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

Archaic said:


> How can you have a discussion about something you have no experience in though? It would be like me going on Mumsnet and telling them what's what with morning sickness... My Mrs has been pregnant, so that makes my argument just as valid yeah, and they should take my advice on board???
> 
> Anwset is No.
> 
> It's your choice not to use AAS, but to take time out of your day to go actively seeking an AAS section and start posting condescending jibes - it's a bit sad..


It's a good point Steve?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> How can you have a discussion about something you have no experience in though? It would be like me going on Mumsnet and telling them what's what with morning sickness... My Mrs has been pregnant, so that makes my argument just as valid yeah, and they should take my advice on board???
> 
> Anwset is No.
> 
> It's your choice not to use AAS, but to take time out of your day to go actively seeking an AAS section and start posting condescending jibes - it's a bit sad..


I can give my side simple. We are in the general section not ASS as you thought earlier. I do seem to get alot of attention from ass users who tend to be picking my brains or questioning my Natty-ness so something somewhere has captured you interest.


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

> 1) I don't compete with anyone as stated in my post????
> 
> 2) Cheating myself. The answer is in my previous post.
> 
> ...


im a scaffolder mainly commercial projects, however been tested quite alot national grid mace etc when we subbed for them

only done basic five star test basic drugs etc,

not slating you natty btw think its good to see on a forum nowadays instead of the pleb op who started this thread,

who is basically trying to justify his doses by making annoying threads,

either way if you do get tempted by the dark side wouldnt worry massively about being tested


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

If I was going to succumb to the dark side as you put it lol, I would have done so years ago when I was younger :beer:


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> I can give my side simple. We are in the general section not ASS as you thought earlier. I do seem to get alot of attention from ass users who tend to be picking my brains or questioning my Natty-ness so something somewhere has captured you interest.


I know we're in Gen chat, the only reason you're in it tho is because a steroid thread got posted. If it didn't, you would be in the AAS section doing your thing there instead ha!I'm giving you a hard time for no real reason though so I'll stop now. I don't mind seeing you crop up in that section, you rile some people up and I find it amusing reading the aftermath lol.I don't think you're a bad guy really.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> I know we're in Gen chat, the only reason you're in it tho is because a steroid thread got posted. If it didn't, you would be in the AAS section doing your thing there instead ha!I'm giving you a hard time for no real reason though so I'll stop now. I don't mind seeing you crop up in that section, you rile some people up and I find it amusing reading the aftermath lol.I don't think you're a bad guy really.


You not giving me a hard time fella, ass or no ass, you ain't big enough.....:laugh: Yeah you'll see me around I don't mean to rile folks but hey I'm no shrinking violet. I post what I think to be true. I ain't always right though.... lol


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

Neuroscience in ruins, here

Ironic really, with that name


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

banzi said:


> Natty limits


Not for everyone though...


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Natty Steve said:


> You not giving me a hard time fella' date=' ass or no ass, you ain't big enough.....:laugh: Yeah you'll see me around I don't mean to rile folks but hey I'm no shrinking violet. I post what I think to be true. I ain't always right though.... lol[/quote']I had to take a guy around your size down in work last month. His head was a bit smaller tho :lol:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> I had to take a guy around your size down in work last month. His head was a bit smaller tho :lol:


What did you do put it in your mouth.....:laugh:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Maximum limits for a natural athlete.

View attachment 165582


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Mingster said:


> Not for everyone though...


I wounder why @banzi removed those stats, I wounder which orifice he pulled them out of? A six foot bloke @10% bf 13.7 stone maximum, come on its bordering on anorexic.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Frandeman said:


> 15% bodyfat


you put your own figures in - it said I was 2%


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> I wounder why @banzi removed those stats' date= I wounder which orifice he pulled them out of? A six foot bloke @10% bf 13.7 stone maximum, come on its bordering on anorexic.
> 
> there back as a picture
> 
> ...


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

There is no such thing as a universal rule for natty limit. I know several natty trainers who are over 100kg at 10-12%.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> What did you do put it in your mouth.....:laugh:


That's not a bad joke lol.. Best one I've heard you tell is the one that you're natty... BOOM! :lol:Beddy byes for me. Good night all


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mingster said:


> There is no such thing as a universal rule for natty limit. I know several natty trainers who are over 100kg at 10-12%.


all due respect, until someone has been down to 5/6% they dont realise how much weight it takes off

Most people who claim 10/12% are 15 at least.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

saxondale said:


> you put your own figures in - it said I was 2%


Screen shot or it never happened :tongue:


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

banzi said:


> all due respect, until someone has been down to 5/6% they dont realise how much weight it takes off
> 
> Most people who claim 10/12% are 15 at least.


What's 5-6% got to do with anything? I've been in this game even longer than you mate. I know what body fat % is.


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

I was measured at 14% body fat with calipers

Personally I reckon I'm 18%-20%

Cos at 14% I'd definitely have some sort of visible abs

Which is not currently the case :laugh:


----------



## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

Tag said:


> I was measured at 14% body fat with calipers
> 
> Personally I reckon I'm 18%-20%
> 
> ...


Is it not usually around 10% for abs to start showing unless you've got huge abs?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mingster said:


> What's 5-6% got to do with anything? I've been in this game even longer than you mate. I know what body fat % is.


Then you will know how light someone is for their frame when they hit that BF%

6ft 1 and 185lbs

View attachment 165583


and hes using, imagine what he would weigh natty.


----------



## Chrisallan (Jul 11, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> I suppose its company dependent' date=' what there policy is etc. Where were you Aberdeen?[/quote']
> 
> Yeah,mate,and holland,also.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> Screen shot or it never happened :tongue:


but, you still put your own figures in it - what was it supposed to show mate?


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Then you will know how light someone is for their frame when they hit that BF%
> 
> 6ft 1 and 185lbs
> 
> ...


he`s not very big


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

banzi said:


> Then you will know how light someone is for their frame when they hit that BF%
> 
> 6ft 1 and 185lbs
> 
> ...


You're confusing me mate.

No-one has mentioned 5% but you.

No-one is talking about competitive condition for two days a year.

I'll repeat this one last time as I'm not interested in your attempts to start arguments in empty rooms. I know natty trainers who are 10-12% bodyfat who weigh over 100kg. That is it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It's possible that you have not come across one of these people. That is fair enough.


----------



## Lousy_Bastard (Oct 20, 2008)

He has a point you know, but he has went about it the wrong way, there is a valid point there somewhere.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mingster said:


> You're confusing me mate.
> 
> No-one has mentioned 5% but you.
> 
> ...


How tall?

I dont want to start an argument either.

The best way to establish lean body mass is to be lean and shredded, thats your true muscular maximum potential

The guys at 10% at 100k may be holding 10k of water.


----------



## Lousy_Bastard (Oct 20, 2008)

banzi said:


> How tall?
> 
> I dont want to start an argument either.
> 
> ...


Your a tosser.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

banzi said:


> How tall?
> 
> I dont want to start an argument either.
> 
> ...


Around 5' 11" - 6 foot mate. These guys aren't giants. I, myself, am 5' 11" and fully intend to drop to 105kg over the next couple of months. I'll post a pic or two and we'll argue about it then


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

safc49 said:


> Is it not usually around 10% for abs to start showing unless you've got huge abs?


All 6, yes

But starts with 2, 4 etc @ 14% or so


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mingster said:


> Around 5' 11" - 6 foot mate. These guys aren't giants. I, myself, am 5' 11" and fully intend to drop to 105kg over the next couple of months. *I'll post a pic or two and we'll argue about it then:*)


Great stuff


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

banzi said:


> Great stuff


Don't get yourself banned in the meantime


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mingster said:


> Don't get yourself banned in the meantime


Ill try, I have been good since our chat.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> So what bodyweight do think you are going to be at 10% bf?
> 
> There are bodymass calculators out there to establish natty limits.


The sad fact that he even goes by weight tells me everything i need to know.

He will lose so much weight that it will discourage him and he will get back to bulking.

18 inch arms at 10% is possible on a 6ft guy with top tier arm genetics, imo.

This guy will pee out 20lbs of water before any fatloss occurs.


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Please refer to my signature

Anyone who doesn't admit steroids are magic beans is a clown, yes it takes hard work but your hard work goes ten times further when you're poking your leg with needles full of tren on a weekly basis


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

Mingster said:


> You're confusing me mate.
> 
> No-one has mentioned 5% but you.
> 
> ...


You don't get it do you?

At the leanest possible, you will know how much size you really carry.

It is the most precise assessment.

Your vague-ish 10-12% numbers mean jack **** and you know it.

Naturals at their leanest will all roughly have the same size.

100kg at 12 % will be lucky to be 80kg on competition day.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

jackedjackass said:


> You don't get it do you?
> 
> At the leanest possible, you will know how much size you really carry.
> 
> ...


QFT


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

> Because they are not the be all and end all. You need to train FFS The drugs come second to training. Training putting the work in makes the drugs do their stuff.
> 
> This is the problem for vast amounts of recreational users. The drugs themselves are not a magic formula, pair them with fcuking hard work and dedication then bingo.


The drugs have more effect on the body than the training does. If you took any Mr. Olympia and made it so they never had taken drugs NONE of them would have been household names if they just trained alone.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> Please refer to my signature
> 
> Anyone who doesn't admit steroids are magic beans is a clown, yes it takes hard work but your hard work goes ten times further when you're poking your leg with needles full of tren on a weekly basis


Are you natural or a gearhead?

I ask, because you look natural and a natural shouldn't talk about steroids.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Frandeman said:


> 50% Drugs
> 
> 20% Training
> 
> ...


hmm you forgot the most important factor, genetics


----------



## PLauGE (Oct 17, 2010)

So what percentage are we going for that gear helps?


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

megatron said:


> Absolute horse shít
> 
> It's 90% diet, drugs are a minor part imo


Couldn't agree more.

OP needs to check himself into a padded room with a doctor lol.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

Archaic said:


> This guy is genuinely mentally ill. He is psychotic, delusional, manic and deeply paranoid. He has expressed in the past that he kill everybody around him in seconds, with just his bare bands.
> 
> He does need to be sectioned for his safety, and more importantly, the safety of others. It is just a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone. If he were in the UK I'd report him to the relevant authorities myself.


now this interests me. someone can only be admitted to a closed mental institution if he is suicidal or incapable of caring for himself therefore in danger or dangerous to others. the latter does not include saying that i could kill someone not even that sometimes i would just like to kill someone for a specific reason. there needs to be an acute threat that can be proven. you cannot lock someone up for saying even that his dream is to commit genocide. it doesn't work that way. there needs to be an actual situation. btw. someone in psychosis cannot type on a laptop. at least not anything remotely readable.

paranoid of what?

and what danger do i represent? what do people think i am capable of? none of you would even be scared of me, if you met me you would see how ridiculously harmless i am. so where does this nonsense come from?

or is this a style of the forum and the contents aren't meant seriously but people just try to make up, for example, the most spectacularly sounding threat?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

saxondale said:


> but, you still put your own figures in it - what was it supposed to show mate?


You just talk bolix though


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> How tall?
> 
> I dont want to start an argument either.
> 
> ...


only 10kg of water lol he'd be dead


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jackedjackass said:


> The sad fact that he even goes by weight tells me everything i need to know.
> 
> He will lose so much weight that it will discourage him and he will get back to bulking.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to me?


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

i see the whole reason people are on here is to argue with each other. now i understand that it has nothing to do with the content at all. it is just about arguing.

i that some british hobby?


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

jackedjackass said:


> Are you natural or a gearhead?
> 
> I ask, because you look natural and a natural shouldn't talk about steroids.


are you angry because you took some steroids and gained some muscle but want credit for 'hard work', when in reality your 'hard work' would only get you as far as looking like someone who doesn't even lift?


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Neuroscience said:


> i see the whole reason people are on here is to argue with each other. now i understand that it has nothing to do with the content at all. it is just about arguing.
> 
> i that some british hobby?


what are you on about?

If you really and truly think that then just de-activate your account and dont sign back on?

There are many people on here that contribute very helpful information to those who are in need, topical conversations and sharing stories and having banter.

If you haven't realised that then thats your problem.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

so this banter which to somebody from another country seems like arguing is considered fun in britain then? it is not always easy to know these things.

for example if you did this in thailand you may get shot for loss of face. different cultures...

i came on here to educate about advancements in supplementation and to give people suggestions on natural performance enhancement and was accused of advertising so i kind of stopped, besides some pm contact with people asking about supplementation.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

well, read up on banter a bit. to me, this and constant sarcasm are not signs of intelligence but negative humour. humour is meant to lighten peoples mood and make them smile, banter seems to be an excuse for being full of negativity in disguise.

i said smile instead of laugh intentionally because you can easily laugh at someone. much more difficut to laugh with someone (without laughing about someone else with your mates).

i met lots of british people and this particular constant pretend-insulting each other to me is at first boring, then disrespectful.

now i understand why brits get in so much trouble in thailand. their culture does not include any insulting whatsoever, even if it is obviously not meant in any way to offend, in your view. to them, they may not act immediately but will always remember you. a single sentence could lead to you returning 5 years later and never be seen back in britain. no joke...


----------



## damn shame (Jan 2, 2015)

Neuroscience said:


> well, read up on banter a bit. to me, this and constant sarcasm are not signs of intelligence but negative humour. humour is meant to lighten peoples mood and make them smile, banter seems to be an excuse for being full of negativity in disguise.
> 
> i said smile instead of laugh intentionally because you can easily laugh at someone. much more difficut to laugh with someone (without laughing about someone else with your mates).
> 
> ...


Balls


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

as germans are famous for their lack of humour i will try to see if i can earn the art of banter. please let me know if i am doing it correctly.

someone said stephe natty i forgot would lose 10kg of water before losing any fat. he was wondering if the post was aimed at him. so could i say:

yeah it was stephanie, because you look like a marshmellow on her period.

would that be acceptable? or did i do it incorrectly?


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

damn shame said:


> Balls


what about the policeman who was mocked by his collegues, went to his wardrobe and shot them all?


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Neuroscience said:


> as germans are famous for their lack of humour i will try to see if i can earn the art of banter. please let me know if i am doing it correctly.
> 
> someone said stephe natty i forgot would lose 10kg of water before losing any fat. he was wondering if the post was aimed at him. so could i say:
> 
> ...


Mate your strung as hell, loosen up a bit mate lol.


----------



## damn shame (Jan 2, 2015)

Neuroscience said:


> what about the policeman who was mocked by his collegues, went to his wardrobe and shot them all?


Big Balls?

They where hiding in his wardrobe? I would have shot the [email protected]#kers too.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

lewishart said:


> Mate your strung as hell, loosen up a bit mate lol.


just shows i obviously didn't do it right


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

damn shame said:


> Big Balls?
> 
> They where hiding in his wardrobe? I would have shot the [email protected]#kers too.


but it was just banter. well, in thailand what he did was totally socially acceptable, his other collegues congratulated him on the act.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

> only 10kg of water lol he'd be dead


lmaoo considering the body is at least 50% water


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> Are you referring to me?


Yes he is.

And for the record you do look like you are carrying 10k of excess water.


----------



## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

Someone who doesnt take drugs can still the blow socks of someone that does use them. I dint use them for 8 years and blew the socks of with my strength with people that use them and iv decided im not going to use them again because im a demon in the gym and my testosterone is at a beast level with out them. I learned that they make you recover quicker but still need to do everything wright to get anything out of steroids


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> as germans are famous for their lack of humour i will try to see if i can earn the art of banter. please let me know if i am doing it correctly.
> 
> someone said stephe natty i forgot would lose 10kg of water before losing any fat. he was wondering if the post was aimed at him. so could i say:
> 
> ...


Nope, that is pretty much a spot on description.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Ill try, I have been good since our chat.


you`ve had "the chat" too.


----------



## damn shame (Jan 2, 2015)

Neuroscience said:


> but it was just banter. well, in thailand what he did was totally socially acceptable, his other collegues congratulated him on the act.


I really have no clue what you are talking about.


----------



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

banzi said:


> poor training + poor diet + drugs = some gains
> 
> poor diet + hard training + drugs = better gains
> 
> ...


Poor genetics + anything = sh*t gains

Good genetics + anything = magic happens.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Natty Steve'o

If you were actually in shape you'd be 180lbs if that. Anyone can walk around fat at 105kg like a water baloon. Prove everyone wrong and get in shape naturally and we shall see, i'm not baiting you i'm serious i'd like to see if you can.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

besides a lot of people here speaking worse english than me...

i would add: i gained a lot of strength naturally, could db-row 60kg, chinups with 30kg extra, 160kg deadliftx5, 25kg flyes, 24kg concentration curls. my bodyweight was around 75kg though and bf below 10. i did make it up to 80kg with just under 16 inch arms but with a bit more fat.

now if someone did a cycle and lifted those weights he would surely be bigger.

there are many guys who lift less than strong naturals, yet they are in a shape that is never achievable. not that gear doesn't make you stronger, but i suppose they feel no need for it as the body is transforming anyway. high volume pump training would never work for a natty, a natty needs to lift heavy.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> *besides a lot of people here speaking worse english than me...*
> 
> i would add: i gained a lot of strength naturally, could db-row 60kg, chinups with 30kg extra, 160kg deadliftx5, 25kg flyes, 24kg concentration curls. my bodyweight was around 75kg though and bf below 10. i did make it up to 80kg with just under 16 inch arms but with a bit more fat.
> 
> ...


why do you feel the need to insult people?

It goes against every single post you have made in the past.

And you forgot to mention youre ill, I think thats the first post where that has happened.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

i didn't insult anyone directly. yet many told me i have no grasp of the english language. there is a difference.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> i didn't insult anyone directly. yet many told me i have no grasp of the english language. there is a difference.


the difference is that you potentially hurt several people where attacking you personally only upset one.

Get yourself a keyboard with functioning caps lock or shift key, the one you have seem to be broken

and thanks for your opinion.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

banzi said:


> the difference is that you potentially hurt several people where attacking you personally only upset one.
> 
> Get your self a keyboard with functioning caps lock or shift key, the one you have seem to be broken


But he doesn't need to use caps, he's smarter than the rest of the human race!!


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

armor king said:


> Someone who doesnt take drugs can still the blow socks of someone that does use them. I dint use them for 8 years and blew the socks of with my strength with people that use them and iv decided im not going to use them again because im a demon in the gym and my testosterone is at a beast level with out them. I learned that they make you recover quicker but still need to do everything wright to get anything out of steroids


You don't have to do everything right at all

You need to do everything right to get everything out of your natural test

If you jabbed enough steroids you could live on fast food and be stronger/more muscular than every natty lifter in the world..


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

WilsonR6 said:


> You don't have to do everything right at all
> 
> You need to do everything right to get everything out of your natural test
> 
> If you jabbed enough steroids you could live on fast food and be stronger/more muscular than every natty lifter in the world..


No...


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

megatron said:


> But he doesn't need to use caps, he's smarter than the rest of the human race!!


He's not even a human, right? :wacko:


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

> Because they are not the be all and end all. You need to train FFS The drugs come second to training. Training putting the work in makes the drugs do their stuff.
> 
> This is the problem for vast amounts of recreational users. The drugs themselves are not a magic formula, pair them with fcuking hard work and dedication then bingo.


person A: Training/diet designed by phil heaths coach natty

person b: trains twice a week and eats as much as they like with phil heaths coach just sorting their drugs out. Blasting/cruising

Who do you think would gain more muscle in a year?


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## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

All these uppity natty's going on about steroids like they know something the users don't.

My opinion (as someone who recently crossed over to the dark side) is that steroids simply allow you to get more out of what you put in.

They allow you to push your body further and with the enhanced recovery you grow more as a result.

They allow you to make better use of the food you eat due to their nutrition partitioning effect.

They essentially speed up how quickly you can get results by making it possible for you to put more effort in and enhancing the result of what you do already.

They remove or at least raise that genetic limit to the mass you can hold (dose dependant?)

In regards to Mr Natty preaching all the time, don't you find that the worst offenders for being fake natty on YouTube shout about being natty more than anyone else?......

Maybe I should stick non smoker, non drinker in my name and go bitch at people on a smoking forum.

Neuroscience, couldn't give a fvck, posts are too damn long to read most of the time due to a biography being attached every time.

Entertaining thread non the less.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

I used to traing harder natty...was younger too

Is too easy with ass and you get faster results...so why no???


----------



## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

SelflessSelfie said:


> *All these uppity natty's going on about steroids like they know something the users don't. *
> 
> *
> *
> ...


I'm not a gynecologist but I know a **** when I see one


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

megatron said:


> No...


Yes...


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

The WeighTrainer - Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements

Its all about diet and how you loss the bf which has a direct bearing upon your water weight loss. The water loss will be replenished to normal levels once the diet calorific intake is balanced without gaining any body fat. You competing guys should know this. As I don't compete and want to maintain normal water levels @ say 10% I don't see why I cant achieve my goals. I'm not that far away ATM.

Current stats are

wrists 8"

ankles 10"

Arms 18"

forearms 14"

Neck 18.3"

Chest 48.8"

thighs 25.5" I was out for 18monts with a broken leg (easing back in).

Calfs 17"

waits 34"

Weight 237.6KG bulking up to 17 stone end of march. Then slowly reducing my calorific intake to loss BF I always keep a fine balance on my bulking calories vs my fat loss calories the figures are not to far apart. My routine remains the same. I work with the same intensity on slightly less calories. This is a slower process however the strength remains, gains are still possible the only difference is the body shape changes.

Try this to see how accurate you think it is : The WeighTrainer - Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements Calculator


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> Yes...


How long did you train before you took anything?

What gains did you make natty?

What gains have you made since?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> The WeighTrainer - Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements
> 
> Its all about diet and how you loss the bf which has a direct bearing upon your water weight loss. The water loss will be replenished to normal levels once the diet calorific intake is balanced without gaining any body fat. You competing guys should know this. As I don't compete and want to maintain normal water levels @ say 10% I don't see why I cant achieve my goals. I'm not that far away ATM.
> 
> ...


You "forgot" to add your waist size.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

The trouble is not one of you using who is spouting off isn't going to set the world alight. You would loos a comp to a pro natty. Yes drugs have there place but as a recreational user your not even breaking the natural boundaries for the most part.

The pros who use don't need to spout chit as you can see what they have achieved in the gym or on stage. These people are a minority who have dedication.

Once you stop jabbing yourself you deflate to a Joe soap. Nattys hold onto what they have for much longer periods. I have seen this time and time again over the years. Its laughable really.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> The trouble is not one of you using who is spouting off isn't going to set the world alight. You would loos a comp to a pro natty. Yes drugs have there place but as a recreational user your not even breaking the natural boundaries for the most part.
> 
> The pros who use don't need to spout chit as you can see what they have achieved in the gym or on stage. These people are a minority who have dedication.
> 
> *Once you stop jabbing yourself you deflate to a Joe soap. Nattys hold onto what they have for much longer periods.* I have seen this time and time again over the years. Its laughable really.


thats because the natty hasnt exceeded his natty limits, I thought that would be obvious.

Anyone natty or drugged stops eating well and training will lose muscle, the enhanced athlete will lose more because he has more to lose.


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## chris-a (Feb 28, 2008)

Neuroscience said:


> i didn't insult anyone directly. yet many told me i have no grasp of the english language. there is a difference.


mate, you're obviously a sensitive and spiritual person. your grasp of english is excellent although elements of your (german) personality (forgive me if i generalize here), such as logic for example, tend not to be quite so openly used amongst we brits when we're informally chatting. hence it may seem as though we're being rude and dismissive, we're not, really, it's just due to the fact (no offence) you're foreign and these things are quite difficult to notice. i'm sure it would take me many lifetimes of learning german before i finally 'got' every nuance, implied meaning etc.

existentialist ideas are probably better discussed somewhere other than a bodybuilding/training forum, interesting as they are to some of us, most people just aren't that bothered and there's a pretty big chance you'll come across as weird.

your body's illness sounds horrid, i'm sorry you're having to go through that.

so, if i were to say 'do one you poor me, wah-wah-wahbulance chasing, waffle-merchant, hippie nut-job, sausage munching nob-jockey' it would actually be with a degree of friendliness involved


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> thats because the natty hasnt exceeded his natty limits, I thought that would be obvious.
> 
> Anyone natty or drugged stops eating well and training will lose muscle, the enhanced athlete will lose more because he has more to lose.


 :yawn:


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

banzi said:


> How long did you train before you took anything?
> 
> What gains did you make natty?
> 
> What gains have you made since?


2 years natty, went from 9 stone to maybe 10.5 at a push, if I had a bad week I'd lose literally 5-6 lbs - religious bulking as well, intense training

2.5 years with gear, been close to 14 stone at low enough bf% to see abs - diet is quite hit or miss, I aim for 200g protein, high carbs and minimum 3000 calories - some days I eat a pack of midget gems and a couple pizzas for example if I'm hungover, I'm far from religious anymore - training is much less intense too but still manage to deadlift 2.5x bodyweight

I don't cope well on high doses, very susceptible to sides, especially psychological ones on stronger steroids so I stick to low doses, for example at the minute I'm running 200mg NPP 450mg EQ, training is spot on really but diet is very good but still far from that of a bodybuilder.. I get compliments, people say I'm 'hench' and the female attention is rife, and I know if I wasn't on cycle at the minute I'd look like a long distance runner

Inb4 the flames calling me skinny/do you even lift :lol:


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## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

> Once you stop jabbing yourself you deflate to a Joe soap. Nattys hold onto what they have for much longer periods. I have seen this time and time again over the years. Its laughable really.


On this point you are completely wrong.

https://thinksteroids.com/news/anabolic-steroids-result-in-permanent-muscle-gains/

There was a study that stated that satellite cells were permanently increased in steroid users but struggling to find it.

Anyway, once enhanced, you are always enhanced. Steroids make permanent changes to your physiology. It's why temporary bans in sports for drug use are pointless.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> 2 years natty, went from 9 stone to maybe 10.5 at a push, if I had a bad week I'd lose literally 5-6 lbs - religious bulking as well, intense training
> 
> 2.5 years with gear, been close to 14 stone at low enough bf% to see abs - diet is quite hit or miss, I aim for 200g protein, high carbs and minimum 3000 calories - some days I eat a pack of midget gems and a couple pizzas for example if I'm hungover, I'm far from religious anymore - training is much less intense too but still manage to deadlift 2.5x bodyweight
> 
> ...


Living the dream..... :laugh:


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> The trouble is not one of you using who is spouting off isn't going to set the world alight.* You would loos a comp to a pro natty*. Yes drugs have there place but as a recreational user your not even breaking the natural boundaries for the most part.
> 
> The pros who use don't need to spout chit as you can see what they have achieved in the gym or on stage. These people are a minority who have dedication.
> 
> Once you stop jabbing yourself you deflate to a Joe soap. Nattys hold onto what they have for much longer periods. I have seen this time and time again over the years. Its laughable really.


Nope


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> :yawn:


Great well thought out and productive answer.

Carry on doing what your doing believing you are making actual muscle gains.

When you finally decide to get your act together and get in shape let us know when you hit 175lbs.

Megatron has already asked you to step up and validate your opinion

You are carrying around 50lb of execss fat and water.

you still havent posted your waist size, tape not reach around?


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

banzi said:


> Great well thought out and productive answer.
> 
> Carry on doing what your doing believing you are making actual muscle gains.
> 
> ...


One of my oldest gym buddies is the exact same as this guy, he's basically too much of a puss for needles so he slags off gear users while walking around at 18stone of fat, he tried to get lean once and gave up 4 weeks in as he lost too much size. Keep stroking your ego and walking round with a gut and moobs if it makes you feel good. I'd rather be an actual bodybuilder with no excuses for my failures.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> you still havent posted your waist size, tape not reach around?


yes I have......

lets see what the summer brings.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> Please refer to my signature
> 
> Anyone who doesn't admit steroids are magic beans is a clown, yes it takes hard work but your hard work goes ten times further when you're poking your leg with needles full of tren on a weekly basis


Looking at your avatar pic I has a similar physic as you as 15 year old school boy, I was a natural skinny cnut.


----------



## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Interesting thread, I agree with both points being made.

1. Steroids are 'magical beans', you'll grow like a weed given everything else in place and will most certainly exceed natural abilities (If you didn't, you wouldn't use them, so all that's obvious)

2. Natural abilities are SERIOUSLY underestimated. But that's comes with being on & around AAS and talking/reading Nom stop about AAS. People forget their natural capabilities (Shît, most people don't even know what they are capable of because they have jumped on juice before even reaching half their genetic potential)

My first year/18 months of natty training I put on about 2 stone (8.5st-10.5st) stayed lean, just about kept a pathetically faint set of abs lol strength literally doubled at 8.5st I think I could barely bench 40Kg, at 10.5st Id nailed 80KG and was moving on to 90KG - Most AAS users would be chuffed with gaining that I'd imagine

I know full well those were a mixture of being a scrawny sod to begin with, and beginners gains, and that try will abruptly slow down sooner or later, but Its still decent IMO


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

WilsonR6 said:


> You don't have to do everything right at all
> 
> You need to do everything right to get everything out of your natural test
> 
> If you jabbed enough steroids you could live on fast food and be stronger/more muscular than every natty lifter in the world..


Well your wrong and you wrong about being stronger than anyone who hasnt used steroids. If you took a load ofsteroids and i nevr touched them you still wont be as strong as me because it just doesnt exist


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Natty Steve said:


> Looking at your avatar pic I has a similar physic as you as 15 year old school boy' date=' I was a natural skinny cnut.[/quote']
> 
> Maybe you should have spent more time learning to spell and less time working on your physique
> 
> ...


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Bless, someone just got home from school xx


----------



## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

WilsonR6 said:


> Maybe you should have spent more time learning to spell and less time working on your physique
> 
> I was a natural skinny cnut, now I'm a juiced up skinny cnut  I couldn't be happier with my physique, or even my life for that matter. All of that is irrelevant, you're just hurling insults because you're an uneducated retard keyboard warrior seeking a thrill from a pathetic passtime - fact still remains that steroids are magic beans and those who can't accept it are just shortcut taking juice heads looking for credit where it's far from due
> 
> ...


 being stronger than me lol. It doesnt exist im the strongest man that has ever lived or ever will live


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

armor king said:


> being stronger than me lol. It doesnt exist im the strongest man that has ever lived or ever will live


Bro I can curl 17.5kg dumbbells for reps. Behave


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

WilsonR6 said:


> Bro I can curl 17.5kg dumbbells for reps. Behave


Damn i best back off then


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> Bro I can curl 17.5kg dumbbells for reps. Behave


Wow ground breaking stuff fella, you must use ass for these super human achievements PMSL :laugh:


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Natty Steve said:


> Wow ground breaking stuff fella' date=' you must use ass for these super human achievements PMSL :laugh:[/quote']
> 
> Definitely not the sharpest guy I've ever come across, Steve


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> Definitely not the sharpest guy I've ever come across, Steve


Fkn comical coming from a drug abuser....


----------



## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

megatron said:


> Absolute horse shít
> 
> It's 90% diet, drugs are a minor part imo


exactly! that's what i tell everyone! whether wanting to gain or lose weight, training pretty much stays the same, gear doesnt change too much as usually a test base. the fundamental change is diet!


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

> Fkn comical coming from a drug abuser....


Are you actually natty? I'd love to see what shape you are in


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

WilsonR6 said:


> Are you actually natty? I'd love to see what shape you are in


It's called a circle


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

Some people here are digging holes so deep that they're at the bottom of the ocean

Good read nonetheless


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Yes 100% nat


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> Yes 100% fat


 :whistling:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> :whistling:


Bitch tits :tongue: :laugh:


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> Bitch tits :tongue: :laugh:


Lol I put up a new avi when get fat so I have incentive to cut. I could put on a tshirt tho with my arms up in front to hide my moobs and gut :laugh:


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

> Yes 100% nat


You remind me of Simeon Panda only not in shape and white.

Not that I can talk with all my bloat but at least I don't make exaggerated claims about my physique...


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Archaic said:


> Lol I put up a new avi when get fat so I have incentive to cut. I could put on a tshirt tho with my arms up in front to hide my moobs and gut :laugh:


You forgot arms bent so there is some vague resemblance to a muscle group


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Archaic said:


> Lol I put up a new avi when get fat so I have incentive to cut. I could put on a tshirt tho with my arms up in front to hide my moobs and gut :laugh:


Please do.... LOL

The insults are flying today lol Take it with a pinch of salt :thumbup1:


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> Please do.... LOL
> 
> The insults are flying today lol Take it with a pinch of salt :thumbup1:


No ill will on my part mate, just bants


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

SelflessSelfie said:


> You remind me of Simeon Panda only not in shape and white.
> 
> Not that I can talk with all my bloat but at least I don't make exaggerated claims about my physique...


Don't loose your head fella lol



megatron said:


> You forgot arms bent so there is some vague resemblance to a muscle group


Yeah you got that look down to a T..... :wink:


----------



## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

I just walked into this thread.

And I'm walking right back out - I'm too simple-minded to understand WTF the OP actually wants


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

SelflessSelfie said:


> You remind me of Simeon Panda only not in shape and white.
> 
> Not that I can talk with all my bloat but at least I don't make exaggerated claims about my physique...


Here's another back pic AVI with no muscular resemblance what so ever, head removed in shame. Looking at the AV you must be on ass fella.....:laugh:


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> Don't loose your head fella lol
> 
> Yeah you got that look down to a T..... :wink:


Just for you space hopper 

View attachment 165630


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

AncientOldBloke said:


> I just walked into this thread.
> 
> And I'm walking right back out - I'm too simple-minded to understand WTF the OP actually wants


For get about the OP he's a little mad. The rest is a hoot though... :thumb:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

megatron said:


> Just for you space hopper
> 
> View attachment 165630


Looking good, what BF%


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Natty Steve said:


> Looking good' date=' what BF%[/quote']
> 
> TBH i'm leaner right now - that was 2013 before a comp. Probably 7 i would say


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Yes it's all just banter, that's the way 90% of the threads in Gen Con turns out. Mingster or Pscarb comes along then, locks the thread and issues some infractions.

Typical day on UKM....


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> Here's another back pic AVI with no muscular resemblance what so ever' date=' head removed in shame. Looking at the AV you must be on ass fella.....[emoji23']


Head removal for anonymity only, got to protect my interests.

Oh and I stated that I wasn't in shape right now, but like you said earlier we will see what the summer brings.....

I have never claimed superiority over another for any reason, I simply use the tools I have available to me to help me reach my goals.

The only person who can judge someone's progress is the person themself as they are the only ones who understand all the circumstances involved. But nothing wrong with calling an apple an apple.....


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> Please do.... LOL
> 
> The insults are flying today lol *Take it with a pinch of salt* :thumbup1:


Maybe thats why you are carrying so much water.


----------



## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

Well this thread was interesting you bunch of nut cases, I'm going back to mums net as its less bitchy on there and less hormonal


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Whats your weight.

The most I will get down to is 10% that's my aim anyways. I'm a kick in the pants of 17 stone now so I'm looking to loose between 14-20lbs when I cut over a period of about six months. I will post up pics of the finished article August/September time. I'm hoping to be around 15,7 to 16 stone with visible abs. I can still see the outlines of them now through my belly fat but obviously as I loose bf they will become more n more prominent. 16st @ 12% would be quite acceptable for me.

Skeptics on here say it cant be done, so watch this space :thumbup1:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> Maybe thats why you are carrying so much water.


LOL thats rather good lol :laugh: 50 % water approx


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Head removal for anonymity only, got to protect my interests.
> 
> Oh and I stated that I wasn't in shape right now, but like you said earlier we will see what the summer brings.....
> 
> ...


Very true fella :thumbup1:


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Head removal for anonymity only, got to protect my interests.
> 
> Oh and I stated that I wasn't in shape right now, but like you said earlier we will see what the summer brings.....
> 
> ...


your in better shape than natty steve though (no ****) its the elephant in the room - he calls everyone else but looks like a first week in the gym fat guy.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> Whats your weight.
> 
> The most I will get down to is 10% that's my aim anyways. I'm a kick in the pants of 17 stone now so I'm looking to loose between 14-20lbs when I cut over a period of about six months. I will post up pics of the finished article August/September time. I'm hoping to be around 15,7 to 16 stone with visible abs. I can still see the outlines of them now through my belly fat but obviously as I loose bf they will become more n more prominent. 16st @ 12% would be quite acceptable for me.
> 
> Skeptics on here say it cant be done, so watch this space :thumbup1:


To give you and idea how far you have top go, I lost around 35lb between those 2 pics.

View attachment 165637


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> your in better shape than natty steve though (no ****) *its the elephant in the room* - he calls everyone else but looks like a first week in the gym fat guy.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> To give you and idea how far you have top go, I lost around 35lb between those 2 pics.
> 
> View attachment 165637


You look better in the first pink sunburned pic, probably stronger too. It looks more natural imo....What BF were you in both pics also at what weights. like I say i dont compete and anything under 10% is far to much, I think it would be to hard to maintain.

Cheers for being constructive. :thumbup1:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> You look better in the first pink sunburned pic, probably stronger too. It looks more natural imo....What BF were you in both pics also at what weights. like I say i dont compete and anything under 10% is far to much, I think it would be to hard to maintain.
> 
> Cheers for being constructive. :thumbup1:


probably pushing 7 in the second one cant remember in the first, I carry a lot of water if I eat a lot of carbs so BF is hard to estimate

Lowest I ever got was back in 96

View attachment 165638


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> probably pushing 7 in the second one cant remember in the first, I carry a lot of water if I eat a lot of carbs so BF is hard to estimate


I wont even attempt 7 lol What body weight were you between the two?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> I wont even attempt 7 lol What body weight were you between the two?


I was around 200 for the one in shape, so 235 or thereabouts for the first one.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> probably pushing 7 in the second one cant remember in the first, I carry a lot of water if I eat a lot of carbs so BF is hard to estimate
> 
> Lowest I ever got was back in 96
> 
> View attachment 165638


Did you find it hard to get to 7?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> I was around 200 for the one in shape, so 235 or thereabouts for the first one.


Looking good at those weights. :thumbup1:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Did you find it hard to get to 7?


I feel you hit a wall at a certain point and just macro eating doesnt quite cut it so to speak, thats why Im always arguing with tommybananas about it. 

You have to diet hard for that, I found it harder this time around at 48 as opposed to 31


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I feel you hit a wall at a certain point and just macro eating doesnt quite cut it so to speak, thats why Im always arguing with tommybananas about it.
> 
> You have to diet hard for that, I found it harder this time around at 48 as opposed to 31


Yeah my cut has slowed down a lot now. My original plan was to get to sub 10% but I'll be happy to get to 10 now,4-5 weeks left.


----------



## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

banzi said:


> probably pushing 7 in the second one cant remember in the first, I carry a lot of water if I eat a lot of carbs so BF is hard to estimate
> 
> Lowest I ever got was back in 96
> 
> View attachment 165638


 :drool: :wub:


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

......looks like ewen has a challenger for ar5e pics


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Drugs are a big part of bodybuilding.

There was a study on men that trained (no drugs), took steroids (no training), and drugs (and training).

Guess the results, guys on drugs and training gained the most muscle.

Guys using drugs no training gained more muscle than the guys that just trained.

So, for muscle waisting disease, AIDS, many are scripted GH, and gear, and no training they gain muscle.

I have seen a guy on tren in 12 weeks go from an average dude to probably 3 years of muscle growth.

Seen guys train for years and not even look like they lift.

Seen guys on gear, and train look like crap.

Genetics and their ability for gear to work do work, some guys won't see a lot of benefits from gear, I swell up huge on gear, and get strong, strong enough to rip muscle from the shoulders (2 bicep tears).


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Drugs are a big part of bodybuilding.
> 
> There was a study on men that trained (no drugs), took steroids (no training), and drugs (and training).
> 
> ...


going to have to call you on that one sir


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> Call him on what? It was an actual study but wouldn't expect you to comprehend that


I think he wants a link to the source, its how people normally verify claims.


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

> Yes 100% nat


You not gonna show us what shape you are in then?

Hackskii has spoken. Those who take gear gain more muscle without training than those who train without gear

Magic beans

/Thread


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> You not gonna show us what shape you are in then?
> 
> Hackskii has spoken. Those who take gear gain more muscle without training than those who train without gear
> 
> ...


You must have duff gear then!

yeah I will.....


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

banzi said:


> probably pushing 7 in the second one cant remember in the first, I carry a lot of water if I eat a lot of carbs so BF is hard to estimate
> 
> Lowest I ever got was back in 96


so you are "be there" on getbig.com ?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> so you are "be there" on getbig.com ?


I might not want people to know that.

Well done big gob.

Goggle image searching my photos

Dont you believe its me?


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

> You must have duff gear then!
> 
> yeah I will.....


What's your deadlift 1rm?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I might not want people to know that.
> 
> Well done big gob.


It's not hard to google image search mate lol.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> What's your deadlift 1rm?


Dunno never done one

What you bench?


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

banzi said:


> I might not want people to know that.
> 
> Well done big gob.


or you might not be the person you claim to be in the pictures


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> It's not hard to google image search mate lol.


Its not hard to PM people and ask questions either.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> or you might not be the person you claim to be in the pictures


Think what you like. :tongue:


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

> Dunno never done one
> 
> What you bench?


You don't deadlift? Why?


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

banzi said:


> Think what you like. :tongue:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> You don't deadlift? Why?


I never said I don't do deads


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


>


Just for you, I never posted as Be There on getbig


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

saxondale said:


> your in better shape than natty steve though (no ****) its the elephant in the room - he calls everyone else but looks like a first week in the gym fat guy.


Thank you hunny x ;p

I try not to judge anybody for their progress as they may have only started training a month so and who knows where they started. I was 254lbs and at least 60% body fat five years ago and 2.5 years ago I was 147lbs and a skinny runt. This is a marathon, not a sprint!

Anyway enough about me, I'll start sounding like neuroscience....

This thread sure had been entertaining


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Thank you hunny x ;p
> 
> I try not to judge anybody for their progress as they may have only started training a month so and who knows where they started. I was 254lbs and at least 60% body fat five years ago and 2.5 years ago I was 147lbs and a skinny runt. *This is a marathon, not a race! *
> 
> ...


a marathon is a race.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

banzi said:


> Just for you, I never posted as Be There on getbig


how about on bodybuilding.com :whistling:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> **** just got real haha


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> View attachment 165644


Looking fat lol


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> how about on bodybuilding.com :whistling:


I got banned on there, wasnt banzi though

I post on TMuscle as Banzi

Do you want my pin number as well?


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

banzi said:


> I got banned on there, wasnt banzi though
> 
> I post on TMuscle as Banzi
> 
> Do you want my pin number as well?


i want your clothes your boots and motorcycle


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> a marathon is a race.


Haha I know mate, I was editing my post as you quoted me. Been a hard week at work man.

Your pictures are inspirational btw dude, if I can ever get even close to your level in my lifetime I will be happy!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> Looking fat lol


I posted that when I first joined after getting jumped on, its an old pic.

Im just getting back in shape now after a ****ty time with BP and cholesterol meds and sickness over xmas

I will be in shape in around 3 weeks.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

saxondale said:


> going to have to call you on that one sir


I posted it on here some time ago, I can find it but don't really feel like searching.

But, give me a minute and I will look.

Remember, I have done this for 40 years, seen just about everything, and I know a guy personally that was a high amateur yet never made pro, he even said it was all about the drugs.

You can only hold as much muscle as hormonally you can.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> i want your clothes your boots and motorcycle


That would be even funnier if you knew who I was on getbig.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> I posted that when I first joined after getting jumped on, its an old pic.
> 
> Im just getting back in shape now after a ****ty time with BP and cholesterol meds and sickness over xmas
> 
> I will be in shape in around 3 weeks.


Sorry fella I couldn't resist. You know what its like on here :tongue:


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Haha I know mate, I was editing my post as you quoted me. Been a hard week at work man.
> 
> Your pictures are inspirational btw dude, if I can ever get even close to your level in my lifetime I will be happy!


just cruise gay for pay sites steal a few pics and pass them off as your own .

seems common on here along with buying audi`s


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

banzi said:


> That would be even funnier if you knew who I was on getbig.


terminator


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> just cruise gay for pay sites steal a few pics and pass them off as your own .
> 
> seems common on here along with buying audi`s


It would feel wrong cutting the heads off other people's pictures though, that's one step away from joining ISIS.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

AlQaholic said:


> Call him on what? It was an actual study but wouldn't expect you to comprehend that


for a link to the study - insult me if you want mate, your choice which way that goes


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

MMS: Error

This 10 week study took a group of 43 men of normal body weight between the ages of 19 and 40 who all had some degree of weight training experience. These men were then split up into 4 different groups:

Group 1 did NOT do any form of exercise, and did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Natural guys doing no weight training.)

Group 2 did NOT do any form of exercise, but they received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Drug users doing no weight training.)

Group 3 DID exercise, but they did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Natural guys doing weight training.)

Group 4 DID exercise, and they also received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Drug users doing weight training.)

Group 1 (no exercise, natural) experienced no significant changes. No surprise there.

Group 2 (no exercise, drug use) was able to build about 7 pounds of muscle. That's not a typo. The group receiving testosterone injections and NOT working out at all gained 7 pounds of muscle.

Group 3 (exercise, natural) was able to build about 4 pounds of muscle.

Group 4 (exercise, drug use) was able to build about 13 pounds of muscle.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Let me know if that link worked, I am on an iMac and the links might not be good, study was the New England Journal of Medicine.

Let me know if it works, if not I will use the laptop.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

right I`m going on a cycle - who wants to mentor me?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

hackskii said:


> MMS: Error
> 
> This 10 week study took a group of 43 men of normal body weight between the ages of 19 and 40 who all had some degree of weight training experience. These men were then split up into 4 different groups:
> 
> ...


Lol, I didnt take that much for the Britain finals.

Regarding gaining muscle and not training, why not?

Steroids were not designed for athletes, they were designed for seriously ill people with wasting diseases


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

saxondale said:


> right I`m going on a cycle - who wants to mentor me?


I will do that if you like.


----------



## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> View attachment 165644


Oh really??? Eat some carbs ffs ...


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Oh really??? Eat some carbs ffs ...


carbs tend to bloat me.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

hackskii said:


> Drugs are a big part of bodybuilding.
> 
> There was a study on men that trained (no drugs), took steroids (no training), and drugs (and training).
> 
> ...


study is bunk, the weight is simply water retention in the muscle.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> study is bunk, the weight is simply water retention in the muscle.
> 
> and I have a serious medical condition


fixed

You cant jump into a thread and expect to be taken seriously now.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Humans are 65% water. How does it feel to be a puddle you pack of [email protected]?


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> study is bunk, the weight is simply water retention in the muscle.
> 
> I have a serious medical condition.
> 
> I'm still better than all of you.





banzi said:


> fixed
> 
> You cant jump into a thread and expect to be taken seriously now.


Double fixed


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

and i am shocked you are older than 22. even possibly in your fourties. did you stop emotionally developing at some point? maybe a wife and kids would be a more meaningful content to life than what you do on this forum. i honestly thought you were at the most early twenties. you lack some aspects of a grown man. i don't quite know how to explain it...


----------



## jackdaw (Jun 18, 2014)

Lol


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Neuroscience said:


> and i am shocked you are older than 22. even possibly in your fourties. did you stop emotionally developing at some point? maybe a wife and kids would be a more meaningful content to life than what you do on this forum. i honestly thought you were at the most early twenties. you lack some aspects of a grown man. *i don't quite know how to explain it..*.


its the medication.

I wouldnt worry about getting older mate, the amount of meds you popping your internal organs will drop out your ass in the next 5 years.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Neuroscience said:


> study is bunk, the weight is simply water retention in the muscle.


Nope:Assessment of Muscle Size

Muscle size was measured by MRI of the arms and legs at the humeral or femoral mid-diaphyseal level, the junction of the upper third and middle third of the bone, and the junction of the middle third and lower third. The cross-sectional areas of the arms and legs, the subcutaneous tissue, the muscle compartment, and the quadriceps and triceps muscles were computed, and the areas at the three levels were averaged.

Analysis of Body Composition

*Fat-free mass was estimated on the basis of measurements of body density obtained by underwater weighing. *During weighing, the men were asked to exhale to the residual volume, as measured by helium dilution.

In bold, this explains that it was not water.


----------



## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Nope:Assessment of Muscle Size
> 
> Muscle size was measured by MRI of the arms and legs at the humeral or femoral mid-diaphyseal level, the junction of the upper third and middle third of the bone, and the junction of the middle third and lower third. The cross-sectional areas of the arms and legs, the subcutaneous tissue, the muscle compartment, and the quadriceps and triceps muscles were computed, and the areas at the three levels were averaged.
> 
> ...


My probs

You did shut his mouth up(@neurofreak)


----------



## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

In your OP you say you ate ice cream and cake every day and we're on a low carb diet.........what?

You also say nutrition more or less plays no part. Well if you remember the avi I used to use I had taken steroids. Yes I put on muscle but it was covered with fat by sh1t diet and I still looked crap. So nutrition plays a HUGE part

Steroids "assist" training and diet


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

megatron said:


> Natty Steve'o
> 
> If you were actually in shape you'd be 180lbs if that. Anyone can walk around fat at 105kg like a water baloon. Prove everyone wrong and get in shape naturally and we shall see, i'm not baiting you i'm serious i'd like to see if you can.


He will never get it.

He will never get there.

I am about 88kilos in what is competition shape(am tall).

If i start eating more from there, i will be 10 kilos heavier within a week, at least. All water an fat gains, none of it is muscle. Would still be 6-7% fat at this point.

I would hit 110 kilos at a much lower body fat level than Steve0.

People who have not been there have no understanding how the weight loss occurs.

If he knew how hard it is to get there, he would have started yesterday.

I tell you, he hasn't got the slightest clue, he is at the stage where he BS himself about how the size is there if he only bothered to get lean the world would see.

What i see is less than 80 kilos on stage.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> You don't have to do everything right at all
> 
> You need to do everything right to get everything out of your natural test
> 
> If you jabbed enough steroids you could live on fast food and be stronger/more muscular than every natty lifter in the world..


The resident joker is talking again.

How do you explain the widespread very bad looking users who do exactly what you suggest there?

Btw i am bigger than you even if i stop training for a year, fully serious.


----------



## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

2004mark said:


> Sure he's not just telling you that to keep you on side so he can keep tabs on you :lol:


And I bet he's still telling him to keep coming see him as well!

Also if the OP is as bright as he says he is and above the rest of us then why the fcuk is he on a forum where 90% of the members have the IQ of a potato?!


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

dann19900 said:


> person A: Training/diet designed by phil heaths coach natty
> 
> person b: trains twice a week and eats as much as they like with phil heaths coach just sorting their drugs out. Blasting/cruising
> 
> Who do you think would gain more muscle in a year?


The second guys gains would be bigger.

Fat gains.

The second guy will look worse.

Need proof? Look around in the gyms.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

> The WeighTrainer - Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements
> 
> Its all about diet and how you loss the bf which has a direct bearing upon your water weight loss. The water loss will be replenished to normal levels once the diet calorific intake is balanced without gaining any body fat. You competing guys should know this. As I don't compete and want to maintain normal water levels @ say 10% I don't see why I cant achieve my goals. I'm not that far away ATM.
> 
> ...


Man, your current stats can be summarised in one word.

Fat.

You know "Roseanne"? The comedian.

She has 20 inch guns too.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> How long did you train before you took anything?
> 
> What gains did you make natty?
> 
> What gains have you made since?


Are you saying this guy with the Justin Bieber muscularity has taken gear AND is saying everything comes easy on gear, despite being living proof of the opposite?

:confused1:


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

> yes I have......
> 
> lets see what the summer brings.


Larger waistbands?

:cool2:

Can i ask a serious question?

How long have you been training?

Why don't you look better yet?

What is bigger, your ankles or your calves?

Why do you believe in....what you believe?

After so many years, i'd wise up.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

armor king said:


> Well your wrong and you wrong about being stronger than anyone who hasnt used steroids. If you took a load ofsteroids and i nevr touched them you still wont be as strong as me because it just doesnt exist


Steroids are used to build muscle, not strength.

Hilarious thread.


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

> Whats your weight.
> 
> The most I will get down to is 10% that's my aim anyways. I'm a kick in the pants of 17 stone now so I'm looking to loose between 14-20lbs when I cut over a period of about six months. I will post up pics of the finished article August/September time. I'm hoping to be around 15,7 to 16 stone with visible abs. I can still see the outlines of them now through my belly fat but obviously as I loose bf they will become more n more prominent. 16st @ 12% would be quite acceptable for me.
> 
> Skeptics on here say it cant be done, so watch this space :thumbup1:


Go 0 carbs and you will lose 14lbs in 3 days and look flatfat.


----------



## Straighthate (Dec 22, 2014)

jackedjackass said:


> Steroids are used to build muscle, not strength.
> 
> Hilarious thread.


****ing idiot, explain why oly lifters use them if they dont want to build muscle?


----------



## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

Straighthate said:


> ****ing idiot, explain why oly lifters use them if they dont want to build muscle?


Why the harsh words?

I suggest an anti estrogen.

Steroids are more effective in building muscle than strength.

One can be very strong without steroids, while nobody will be big and lean without them.


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

jackedjackass said:


> Why the harsh words?
> 
> I suggest an anti estrogen.
> 
> ...


To a point.The very fact having more muscle allows you to lift more weight has to be considered.

But I can see what you mean as there are lots of big men who lift like kittens.


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jackedjackass said:


> The second guys gains would be bigger.
> 
> Fat gains.
> 
> ...


they don't have a pro controlling their drug intake do they. Fat gain? Hello t3+dnp


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

what are your actual stats today Steve?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> No I don't know her personally but hey something to aim for..... :thumbup1:
> 
> Hi Jackass (Appropriate name by the way)
> 
> ...


Oh dear.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> What?


Do you think this guy doesnt look good, or has stats that will destroy yours.

Careful calling people out.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> Whats yours saxonfail?


I would have told you but for the childish name calling


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

View attachment 165738


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> If he competes then yeah he will look good. I ain't calling anyone out I want to know what his stats are for my own reasons which will probably become apparent if he posts them.
> 
> Everyone knows mine, I'm hiding nothing and want to see whats realistically achievable. Is this Guy 100% natty or a user?


He doesn't compete but maintains 6/7% year round.

Its up to him to tell you his status regarding drugs.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> View attachment 165738


what a pile of garbage that is.

Maximum bulked bodyweight at 12%

and muscular bodyweight at 12%

Can someone explain what that means?


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> what a pile of garbage that is.
> 
> Maximum bulked bodyweight at 12%
> 
> ...


you make up some figures and put them in, stevo seems to live by the result.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> you make up some figures and put them in, stevo seems to live by the result.


and uses a funfair mirror to gauge his progress.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

jackedjackass said:


> Steroids are used to build muscle, not strength.
> 
> Hilarious thread.


So what are powerlifters taking?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> The WeighTrainer
> 
> Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements
> 
> ...


tldnr

cliff notes please.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> Id rather use one of these mirrors than use' date=' sorry abuse drugs....[b'].to get into shape.


thats never happened

You need to show us some pictures.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> How does the calculator stack up. Do you think its accurate?? Where are you at now stat wise in comparison with your maximum natural capacity? Only if you don't mind. Do you use gear?


first though - going from my AVI, do you think I use gear?


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> no


your right - I`ll measure my weight and let you know.


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

arms 16 inch

waist 32 inch

thigh 33 inch

chest 42 inch

172lbs

measurements as I`m sat here, not lean, pretty much same as Avi


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> 33" Thigh ?


no thats not right is it?

two secs

22 inch


----------



## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> how tall are you?


5 foot 71/2 - short **** mate, dont forget the half


----------



## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

Merkleman said:


> @SkinnyJ


So you gain more muscle taking gear and not training than you do training natty. Why da fock am i wasting my time being natty!?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> So going off the calculator you still have some good gains you can achieve training naturally before you hit your predicted natural limit @saxondale


should hope so but your thing doesnt take account of age.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

saxondale said:


> should hope so but your thing doesnt take account of age.


Exactly, an 18-24yr male is going to have allot more endogenous Test than a man in his 40s/50s. According to this calc they have the exact same potential...


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## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

dann19900 said:


> they don't have a pro controlling their drug intake do they. Fat gain? Hello t3+dnp


T3 helps how much?

The equivalent of how many calories per day?

DNP?

Have you tried that, say, year round?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> yeah this is true i suppose


so its bolloX then?


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## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

@nattySteve0:

You are overthinking this whole issue.

Simply keep training and eat less and you will look your personal best.

The numbers do not matter, Flex Wheeler had **** stats on paper.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> its far from boillx really. It does give realistic potentials for *up and coming nattys*


oxymoron.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> WTF





> oxymoron
> 
> ??ks??m??r?n/Submit
> 
> ...


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

OMG this thead still going? Lol


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

It all gets a bit blah blah blah now.


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)




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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

FelonE said:


> It all gets a bit blah blah blah now.


In the threads defense though - we are still waiting for stev`os current stats


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

saxondale said:


> In the threads defense though - we are still waiting for stev`os current stats


He's ten foot 1 and tons of fun.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

> lol


is that binary for your wrist?


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## nixo (Feb 16, 2014)

No one is as big off gear as you are on but unless u plan on stayin on you need the food to gain real muscle , anyone can take but it's about what you keep and gain


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

jackedjackass said:


> Steroids are used to build muscle, not strength.
> 
> Hilarious thread.


Steroids build muscle but doesn't increase strength. Sounds a bit. Doesn't make any sence


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

armor king said:


> Steroids build muscle but doesn't increase strength. Sounds a bit. Doesn't make any sence


Neither does your post.


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

banzi said:


> Neither does your post.


I never make sense mate


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Natty Steve'O - you're saying you will only lose one stone and be lean?

I would be flabbergasted if you were any heavier than 13 stone when you got in actual shape - you'll lose the first stone in one week.

When I say "in shape" I don't mean being able to see 4 abs first thing in the morning standing sideways either I mean seeing then lot and cuts in your delts, chest, visible lower back.

We need to get some sort of bet going on here, you're really kidding yourself


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

Natty stevo still preaching how great he is for being natty.

Natty and 30% bf.


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

megatron said:


> Natty Steve'O - you're saying you will only lose one stone and be lean?
> 
> I would be flabbergasted if you were any heavier than 13 stone when you got in actual shape - you'll lose the first stone in one week.
> 
> ...


He might prove you doubters wrong


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

armor king said:


> He might prove you doubters wrong


You can't turn fat into muscle


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

megatron said:


> You can't turn fat into muscle


If that's him on his avatar PIC the I think he looks like a beast


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

armor king said:


> If that's him on his avatar PIC the I think he looks like a beast


Plenty of fat dudes that look big mate, let's see how much of a beast he is sub 10% bodyfat I'd say he's 30% now so...


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

armor king said:


> If that's him on his avatar PIC the I think he looks like a beast


And he doesn't look fat he's got that v shape going. There's no need to be below 10% body fat unless that's your thing. 15% is considerd alright. Get good abs showing if youv got enough muscle there


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Has Neurosocio posted back at all yet?

This thread needs some more delrious dribble or will run out of steam soon.


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

megatron said:


> Plenty of fat dudes that look big mate, let's see how much of a beast he is sub 10% bodyfat I'd say he's 30% now so...


Nah i wouldnt say that 30% is pretty high. Iv been 26% looked big could tell I lift weights but didn't have that v shape


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

armor king said:


> Nah i wouldnt say that 30% is pretty high. Iv been 26% looked big could tell I lift weights but didn't have that v shape


Well we have yet to see a pic in focus, of more than his fat shoulder/arm so it's hard to tell.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

The post is so relating. I have few mates who were natural like me with almost a same diet. Now, they have taken the dark side and i don't dare anymore to have a workout with them. i am not saying that drugs are the only thing but surely the rewards are far more better than when you train naturally.


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