# Can you gain while on PCT



## Tomo1984 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Quick question

Is it possible to continue gaining muscle during PCT?

PCT is Clomid, Nolv & HCG.

Supps, are Multi vit, ZMA, B Tribulis, & Fish oils.

Cals are currently at mainatinace with high pro, so thought if i up cals and more protein could you continue to gain.

thanxs


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## bluesteel (May 28, 2010)

depends on your cycle, depends how long youve been training and depends on your diet and training etc but i would say no.

everything is stacked against you during PCT. keeping gains for a lot of people is hard work so making further gains is unlikely. not saying impossible but you have to work monumentally hard to get tiny gains.


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## standardflexer (Jul 16, 2008)

I have gained back width coming off before due to on cycle lat pulldown and not widegrip pull ups and not deadlifting, in pct I started doing widegrip pull ups and deadlifting so yes i gained muscle.

If you make changes for the better regarding training and diet you could gain.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

my aim at the moment is to gain some lean mass and keep bf% at same or lower it, i am on cycle,then i will wait and use the ''cruise'' period, too cut and get my bf% as low as possibe and during pct hopeing the rebound i get will help carry me through it and gain on it then a long break for me


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## aseeby19 (May 3, 2010)

U sure can mate jus don't take any anti e or htpa recovery product and let the estrogen do its magic  focus on nutrition , rest , low volume workouts and maintanence for now


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Tomo1984 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Quick question
> 
> ...


Not if you have no testosterone. Testosterone is the building block to muscle growth, without it you can't build muscle.


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Tomo1984 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Quick question
> 
> ...


Can you enlighten is further on your actual pct regime?

I would not be using hcg as part of a pct, better used during a cycle IMO, or even at the end of a cycle before pct, but not as part of a pct.

You could still make gains but only if you were not heavily shutdown as I have made gains post cycle in the past.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Dezw said:


> Can you enlighten is further on your actual pct regime?
> 
> *I would not be using hcg as part of a pct*, better used during a cycle IMO, or even at the end of a cycle before pct, *but not as part of a pct.*
> 
> You could still make gains but only if you were not heavily shutdown as I have made gains post cycle in the past.


I agree, it's obviously better to not let the testes shut down in the first place but what is the reason for not using hCG in PCT? or are you just saying what others have said?


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> I agree, it's obviously better to not let the testes shut down in the first place but what is the reason for not using hCG in PCT? or are you just saying what others have said?


I would use it before pct but not during.

Have read some studies and also from experimenting on myself it seemed to hinder recovery when used during pct for me, but when used for duration of cycle and stopping before pct started recovery was almost not needed, felt the best ever after a cycle, just my experiences mate.


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## standardflexer (Jul 16, 2008)

aseeby19 said:


> U sure can mate jus don't take any anti e or htpa recovery product and let the estrogen do its magic  focus on nutrition , rest , low volume workouts and maintanence for now


Im interested in this reply what estrogen magic is there?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

standardflexer said:


> Im interested in this reply what estrogen magic is there?


That would be the DD set of boobies  .


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

mars1960 said:


> Not if you have no testosterone. Testosterone is the building block to muscle growth, without it you can't build muscle.


Acht, now now that's not STRICTLY true. 99% though...:laugh:

Purely speculative BUT I reckon your best chance is if you deliberately drop training loads and volume in the last 2 weeks of your "still got T in me" time, so maybe keep training heavy the week after your last shot, then back roght down or stop training. You won't lose mass as you still have artificially high T levels and a maint. kcal diet.

Then on starting PCT, resume training with moderate loads, increasing those loads by 5-10% or so per session throughout PCT. Repeated exposure to heavier loads should fire mTOR pathways well enough and given some BCAA and a bitty of carbs around training and a reasonable training frequency (2-3x / week) this should go quite a way to offsetting the hormonal drop off for the 2-3 weeks it allegedly take to turn the nads back on.

Typically during PCT exposure to load is less and less over time - why not deliberately reverse that?

Just a thought.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

It is 100% true from a purely biological perspective  .


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## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

I don t believe you can gain in PCT. It is hard enough to maintain 100% of what you gained on cycle. You have left an artificially high anabolic environment for an artificially high catabolic environment. If gains or even 100% maintenance were possible then there would be far fewer numbers of men using blast and cruise methods


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## standardflexer (Jul 16, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> That would be the DD set of boobies  .


lol

aseeby19 please reply.


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## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

aseeby19 said:


> U sure can mate jus don't take any anti e or htpa recovery product and let the estrogen do its magic  focus on nutrition , rest , low volume workouts and maintanence for now


Without hpta recovery estrogen will be very very low. You have to have testosterone to produce any estrogen, the lower you T the lower your E. Estrogen magic - estrogen does not build muscle - the reason that people with high estrogen think they gain more on a cycle with high estrogen is simple - worthless water retention and the useless weight that goes with it


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## robc (Sep 21, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> It is 100% true from a purely biological perspective  .


The testes might not be pumping out testosterone but there will be some test in the blood still surely?

Although whether or not this would be enough to facilitate any gains I have absolutely no idea :beer:


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> Not if you have no testosterone. Testosterone is the building block to muscle growth, without it you can't build muscle.





mars1960 said:


> It is 100% true from a purely biological perspective  .


Really?

Because the biology student in me seems to think that amino acids are the building blocks of muscle.. Testosterone is a messenger, nothing more, just like any other hormone.

(But yes, without it you can't build muscle  )


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

robc said:


> *The testes might not be pumping out testosterone but there will be some test in the blood still surely*?
> 
> Although whether or not this would be enough to facilitate any gains I have absolutely no idea :beer:


I said in the first post if you have* no* testosterone.



MillionG said:


> Really?
> 
> *Because the biology student in me seems to think that amino acids are the building blocks of muscle.. Testosterone is a messenger, nothing more, just like any other hormone.*
> 
> (But yes, without it you can't build muscle  )


Fair point  .


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## stri8ted2210 (May 23, 2009)

aseeby19 said:


> U sure can mate jus don't take any anti e or htpa recovery product and let the estrogen do its magic  focus on nutrition , rest , low volume workouts and maintanence for now


Let the estrogen do its magic?? What catabolise all your muscle tissue, Dont think so.


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## robc (Sep 21, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> I said in the first post if you have* no* testosterone.
> 
> Fair point  .


Ok. Is it possible then to have absolutely zero testosterone at all in the body?


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## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

robc said:


> Ok. Is it possible then to have absolutely zero testosterone at all in the body?


It is unlikely you will have zero - your adrenal glands will produce a little but at best we are talking female levels of testosterone. You will not build muscle on these - testosterone is essential for building muscle in men


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## madmanc89 (Apr 6, 2010)

having ran tamoxifen throughout my course at 20mg ed for various reasons i am wondering whether this means less shutdown??


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

madmanc89 said:


> having ran tamoxifen throughout my course at 20mg ed for various reasons i am wondering whether this means less shutdown??


 No, in fact tamoxifen can actually increase estradiol levels in males.

Estrogen is extremely suppressive, SERMS do not reduce estrogen, you should run a low dose AI on cycle instead.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

madmanc89 said:


> having ran tamoxifen throughout my course at 20mg ed for various reasons i am wondering whether this means less shutdown??


Unlikely, it just protected you from the circulating estrogen. Any positive effects it would have had on your HPTA would have been overridden by the negative feedback due to the test in your system


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## madmanc89 (Apr 6, 2010)

SD said:


> Unlikely, it just protected you from the circulating estrogen. Any positive effects it would have had on your HPTA would have been overridden by the negative feedback due to the test in your system





mars1960 said:


> No, in fact tamoxifen can actually increase estradiol levels in males.
> 
> Estrogen is extremely suppressive, SERMS do not reduce estrogen, you should run a low dose AI on cycle instead.


i thought as much. just needed it clarifying. cheers guys:thumb:


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## Tomo1984 (Mar 21, 2010)

Ok so most people state you cant gain during PCT...! Which i have found out!

So how long after PCT is over is it possible to start gaining again??


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