# training experiment



## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

im at this gym with all the machines and some free-weights at the moment because my mate owns it and its a free membership we have started this training experiemtn i have tried explaining to him that this wont work because you need time for the muscles to recver but this is the kind of thing we done yesterday and next monday we will be starting and doing it every week day

we started off by going on this stepper then biking for 20 mins and then rowing for 5000 metres, then we started on the weights we done all body parts and all different types of exercies from upside down crunches with a medicine ball in my hands to benching etc ...... but ive tried telling him the body wont get enuf rest but he seems to think its ok, so wot do you guys think?

also say i progress to the top weights this guy has in his gym (not very heavy) and i end up being the right size i want can i just stick at the same weights and stay at that size then?

thankoooooo


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## verve (Sep 10, 2003)

Unfortuneatly some people just won't listen. I had a mate who did 3 hour workouts, didn't have a good diet etc. and I kept trying to give him advice, but he wouldn't listen. Now he's stopped lifting weights, blaming genetics. I think the best thing for you to do is do your own thing, when he sees you progressing faster than him he may change his mind


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Leave him to it. People need to learn by their own mistakes. You can lead a horse to water etc.

He will likely overtrain extremely quickly and will probably regress eventually. This is the point where the devoted people research and change things up, and the lazy give up.

I suppose that if he's doing extremely sub-optimal weights, it could work as a cardio session, but it's a horrible idea if trying to build muscle.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Deano! said:


> also say i progress to the top weights this guy has in his gym (not very heavy) and i end up being the right size i want can i just stick at the same weights and stay at that size then?


Probably, although you're human, so your goals will probably increase when you get closer to them.

It's entirely possible to get to a weight, and then just maintain continually by manipulating diet and training routine. I personally can't see how that would be fulfilling or satisfying at all - putting in effort to stay looking the same. Constant improvement is way more fun


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Steve Reeves used to train for upto 3 hrs at atime 3 times a week doing the whole body each workout and it worked for him,

Now do we say its just down to genetics(the old standby)and say he would have grown no matter what he did?????

OR

Do we look at what and how he did it and understand his attitude and application of his workouts???

You can train the wholebody and do extended workouts its how you do them and how you approach them both during and after they are over that counts.

Made some great gains doing longer workouts and highr sets in the past,but looking back it was my aftercare that effected my ability to use them longterm and get out of the asmuch as I should have done.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

i am a firm brliever that people new to training can get away with training each bodt part 2-3 times a week

As we get bigger over the months we need to move to once a week sesions


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Totally agree,newbies enthusiasm for training helps em train more often,they want to so let them.

But I also believe that even advance trainers can train bodyparts twice-three times a week and even 2-3 times aday if everything else is implace and they have the right mind set.

I`ve done it and made some interesting gains in the past.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKI said:


> Steve Reeves used to train for upto 3 hrs at atime 3 times a week doing the whole body each workout and it worked for him,
> 
> Now do we say its just down to genetics(the old standby)and say he would have grown no matter what he did?????


Or maybe he grew in SPITE of what he did?

The other alternative is that it really doesn't matter how you train, and that diet is infinitely more important, and to some extent the drugs you're running.

Arnold used to train for 2 hours twice a day, 6 days a week, hitting each body part EOD. He did a lot of sets, rarely went to failure, and had brief rest periods.

Mike Mentzer used to train 15 minutes at a time, once every 5 day or so, hitting half the body each time. He went to total momentary muscular failure and did 1 set.

Both of these guys had stunning results and trained so ridiculously differently. Both of these guys had amazing genetics of course.

The reality is, IMO, for the average trainee, with average genetics, something in between these routines seems to work.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

Beginners can fart and put 3" on there arms.

Pro's use more drugs than an army of freaky aliens that don't breathe air, they just inhale crack.

What either of those groups of trainees do is none of your/our concern, what YOU do is FAR more IMPORTANT.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

yeah but hes my new training partner and im training with him we're both doing the same routine i had a go the other day and was in pain the day after (yesterday) and now we'll be doing that same routine every week day starting monday like


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Deano! said:


> yeah but hes my new training partner and im training with him we're both doing the same routine i had a go the other day and was in pain the day after (yesterday) and now we'll be doing that same routine every week day starting monday like


Just because he's your training partner, it doesn't mean you should let him sabotage your routine. Either drop the routine, or drop him. Bottom line: if you carry on hitting every body part every day, you'll end up getting weaker, smaller and probably ill.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Just listen to your body Deano.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> Mike Mentzer used to train 15 minutes at a time, once every 5 day or so, hitting half the body each time. He went to total momentary muscular failure and did 1 set.


Biggest load of bull going,I`ve read quite a few articles over the years that all point to mentzer building his bod primarly with volume training and the one set theory was something he "thought"(with the help of jones)had potential,even when he did most of his writting about 1 set per bodypart he could still be seen in the gym doing multiple set workouts.

I dont believe in genetics,thats just a lazy mans excuse.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKI said:


> Biggest load of bull going,I`ve read quite a few articles over the years that all point to mentzer building his bod primarly with volume training and the one set theory was something he "thought"(with the help of jones)had potential,even when he did most of his writting about 1 set per bodypart he could still be seen in the gym doing multiple set workouts.


Certainly Mentzer trained a lot of people with the 1 set per bodypart, and it worked for them. He had numerous clients, both in person and by telephone, who succeeded with this system. Casey Viator is another bodybuilder and trainer who did this.

Dorian Yates also comes pretty close - while he hits 3-4 exercises per bodypart, he only does 1 set of each.



> I dont believe in genetics,thats just a lazy mans excuse.


So are you saying you could take Woody Allen and turn him into Ronnie Coleman?

Genetics play a MAJOR part. That's not to say Woody couldn't put on 50+lbs of mass, but he'd never be Ronnie Coleman. It's his genetics that determine this. No amount of juice will change that.

Also, you see plenty of muscular people who eat like crap, drink at the weekends and don't put any thought into their training, and they progress well. And you see plenty of people who eat perfectly, don't drink, and follow good training routines without making progress. Are you saying that genetics aren't playing a part here?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> Certainly Mentzer trained a lot of people with the 1 set per bodypart, and it worked for them. He had numerous clients, both in person and by telephone, who succeeded with this system. Casey Viator is another bodybuilder and trainer who did this.


Viator built his bod with high volume,only in his later training did he swap over to HIT plus during the jones experiment(HIT training) he would go home and do extra training at home because he knew he hadnt done enough.

HIT is good for strength gains not bodybuilding,it just stresses the central nervous system too much.

So are you saying you could take Woody Allen and turn him into Ronnie Coleman?

Probaly could do it,

Yeah get his diet right and training and mind set and he or anyone can grow and grow big,plus add gear growth igf1 insulin plasma expanders dnp thyroid and all the other little goodies into the mix and you will get one big "woody"

Its all in the mind,most of the biggest people I have ever seen have "ALWAYS" been the ones who are the most relaxed easy going come what it may types,when in the gym their in the gym when out the gym doesnt exist.

If you believe you have a genetic flaw then you will get one and no amount of advice/prompting will get you were you should be.

To look at me at school you would have thought I would be the last person to "EVER" put on a stone never mind the 105lbs I did put on it 8 yrs,

Why did I acheive this????

Because I never beleived that I couldnt,if people said I wouldnt reach a certain weight then I busted a gut and did everything I could think of to get there and get there I did.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

Balls and heart make a champion, not drugs nor money. Not genetics, nor food. Not 20 rep squats, nor 5x5. And definitely NOT excuses.

The only people that absolutely, utterly, will never, ever be 'Mr Olympia' are those with a limb missing.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

so 5 days a week and each week day i do one body part and change over for the 5 days would that be any good? i mean i need to work out which routine works best for me i know but is that still ok for me to build up? nothing wrong with it like


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> Balls and heart make a champion, not drugs nor money. Not genetics, nor food. Not 20 rep squats, nor 5x5. And definitely NOT excuses.


Not genetics huh?

So with that I can be a professional basketball player @ 5'6.5".

Win the 100 yard dash in the olympics?

*Rubbish*, Genetics do play a role in things.

Look how stupid some people are and tell me that this is not genetics bacause they wernt taught properly?

Diet?

That is almost as funny as the genetic comment.

Some people have alergies and will always have them to certain foods.

Are you implying that people that train wont have food alergies?

What about people that are insulin resistant and insulin sensitive?

Some people really have to watch what they eat or they will get fat.

Diffrent body types endo/ecto/meso, all genetics in their roll. All these body types will have diffrent responces to diffrent foods. What is most important is knowing which responce to food is right for the person.

Trial and error here and some common knowledge about this will help.

Oops, I forgot, just balls and heart is all it takes.

Start using your brain bro. :axe:

You use the tools that you have to the task at hand.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Deano! said:


> so 5 days a week and each week day i do one body part and change over for the 5 days would that be any good? i mean i need to work out which routine works best for me i know but is that still ok for me to build up? nothing wrong with it like


That is fine. You can check out my routine under the journals if you would like. Or not.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

thanks mate for that, hellish usefull


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

> So with that I can be a professional basketball player @ 5'6.5".


Yes. IIRC there are 4 that are under 5'8''.



> Win the 100 yard dash in the olympics?


Its 100m. And yes, with enough ****ing guts, you can.



> *Rubbish*, Genetics do play a role in things.


Genetics are a factor, nothing more than a minor inconvinence. Just like most things in life are. Champions don't have it any ****ing easier than you do. Albert Einstien was dyslexic, Stephen Hawking has ****ing motor neuron disease both those men overcame difficulties me and you can never fully comprehend. BUT; they didn't just overcome those problems, they ****ing ****ed all over them. They ARE (were in the case of A. E.) the best in the world at what they do.

Life ****s on you from time to time, suck it up and ****ing deal with it. I am an ecto, a 'hardgainer'. Yet I still manage to put on 60lbs this last 12 months. Infact, I am in the top 10, if not the top 5 strongest people on this board, and all that, after 12 months. Why? 'Cos I don't make excuses.



> Look how stupid some people are and tell me that this is not genetics bacause they wernt taught properly?


This is an entirely different matter, and so not a good analogy to make, but, I will humour you:

It si my opinion that everyones brain has the same capacity, the same functions, an the same level of problem solving ability. The problem IS in the teaching.

In Britian alone, there are 70 MILLION people and yet every single one is expected to learn the same things in the same way and at the same rate.

For all you/I know, the best way to get our (as yet not fully understood) brains to process infoamtion, and generate ideas could be to do that via the media of dance/song, but because no-one can be ****d finding this out, we will probablly never know. Listen to a few seconds of a song just once, and you can remeber the tune vey easily, even though it is a very complex thing to replicate/convey to others. Listen to a series of numbers and letters (8y8c8hc85hyv8hghv8hgt58t5hv8) for the ssame amount of time and you would have a hard time replicating that/regurgitating it to others. Getting the point? There are no stupid people, just those that don't yet understand concepts as no one has managed to tap into the best way to engange them.



> Diet?
> 
> That is almost as funny as the genetic comment.
> 
> Some people have alergies and will always have them to certain foods.


Thats a crap excuse. My brother is ceoliac (cannot eat gluten) AND diabetic YET he still manages to be one of the best football players in our county.



> Some people really have to watch what they eat or they will get fat.


Tough ****ing ****. Watch what you eat then. Its not easy, but it certainly is not impossible.



> Oops, I forgot, just balls and heart is all it takes.
> 
> Start using your brain bro. :axe:


LMFAO.

Sum up:

1. Its not easy.

2. It most definitely is NOT impossible.

3. Excuses make losers, balls and heaart makes champions.

I am ****ing sick and tired of the ****ing bull **** people are fed in life full stop, the internet is the last place where they can't get to us, the last place they can't censor and manipulate us.

Stop the bull****.

SUCCESS COMES FROM AND IRON WILL: TO NEVER, EVER, GIVE UP.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

*awaits calls for banning and avalanche of bad reputations points*


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Ban him.... neg point him up


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

LOL. Thanks Barry.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well I guess everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Just like you being one of the storngest guys on this board............lol

Proven fact, steroids put on muscle. Infact a double blind study that used 3 different groups of people were used in a study.

1st group did gear and lifted weights.

2nd group just did gear.

3rd group just lifted.

To make a long story short that is the results in that order. The gear only guys put on more muscle then the guys that lifted.

I bet the top ten guys that went to the olympia all did gear.

What about muscle attachment points? We are not all built the same.

Raise a black boy in an all white neigborhood and what color is he?

Why are the fastest runner in the world african american?

Why are most of the strong men white?

Why are most of the best ping pong players Japaneese?

Titor I love you but you are so wrong here it is laughable.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Oh another thing. Why do female wolves mate with the alfa male wolf only? Cause he tries harder............lol


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

I am not aware of anyone else on this board that does rack pulls with 320kg (700lbs)... are you?

Anyhoo, enough of the egotism.

I am aware of that study. So what the **** does that prove? AAS put on muscle? GREAT.... I never knew that. (FYI: EVERY SINGLE GUY AT THE OLYMPIA WAS ON MORE ASS THAN A DYSLEXIC DONKEY).

Most of the strong men are white because its a sport usually favoured by the developed world. How many Iraqies do you know that can afford £30k a year on drugs and food, let alone the training facilities to be WSM?????? How many StrongMan gyms are there in centeral Bagdad?

People in the developing world have more to worry about than a ****ing barbell.

Black sprinters use the same muscle fibres (I.e. Fast twitch) to generate power as white PLers like Gene, or Asian/Eastern block Oly lifters like Reza Zadeh....... think about that.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

First off never done rack pulls and dont really see a reason to eather.

Second do you really think it is a coincidence that the fastest men on the planet are black?...................lol Come up with some facts and I will listen. Just because you are uninformed, dosn't mean that you know what your talking about.  Titor, this is borderline laughable.............lol Sorry, can we move this thread to the comedy corner


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> Life ****s on you from time to time, suck it up and ****ing deal with it. I am an ecto, a 'hardgainer'. Yet I still manage to put on 60lbs this last 12 months. Infact, I am in the top 10, if not the top 5 strongest people on this board, and all that, after 12 months. Why? 'Cos I don't make excuses.


Mate, ability to put on 60lbs in 12 months means you're most definitely NOT a hardgainer!

What are your core lifts (squat/dead/bench)?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2004)

Yes I am. I gained nothing for 4 years, no, 5 years. Then I started to LISTEN to people stronger than me and stop listening to whinging know-it-alls that have 'trained more years than I have lived' and still only weigh 200lbs @ 10% bf with ****ty lifts.

Big,

My Sq/Bp/Dl is in a PM to you. Frankly, if I posted it up, 99% wouldn't belive me.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> Yes I am. I gained nothing for 4 years, no, 5 years. Then I started to LISTEN to people stronger than me and stop listening to whinging know-it-alls that have 'trained more years than I have lived' and still only weigh 200lbs @ 10% bf with ****ty lifts.
> 
> Big,
> 
> My Sq/Bp/Dl is in a PM to you. Frankly, if I posted it up, 99% wouldn't belive me.


I dont have them mate!


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

They were sent to 'big', he asked, you didn't. I'm not psychic


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> They were sent to 'big', he asked, you didn't. I'm not psychic


If you were you wouldn't be posting now would you. Also you would stop the sillyness and see the light.............lol


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

LOL. I guess were going to have to 'agree to disagree' again then. Doh. I wish just once someone would see my point of view.

EDIT: 2nd thoughts, I don't give a flying **** really.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> EDIT: 2nd thoughts, I don't give a flying **** really.


Yes you do our you wouldn't keep posting.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Thats it? Come on big guy, give up some kind of rebutle. Nice lifts by the way are those in pounds or kg?..................lol


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

lbs or kilo lmao winger!!!!


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

kg you goof.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

diary barry said:


> lbs or kilo lmao winger!!!!


Even if it was pounds they would be good lifts.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

But he is still wrong.......................lol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Even the balls you are talking about titter are genetic.

Even the heart you are talking about are genetic titter.

How closed minded you are.

Not everyone is wrong and look at the proof here:

Pit bulls, pound for pound are the most ferocious and aggressive dogs their is.

First pick for fighting by all in the dog world.

Is this by mistake?

Not by along shot. They were bread this way to be as such.

Interbred to fight like this. That is their job!

Can my 58 pound lab come up against this ferocious creature and come out on top?

Not a chance.

Lets look at the record books and tell me which race is good at what.

Are they not all athletes?

Do they all train?

Do they all want to win?

Don't they all want to be the best?

Your balls and heart are what makes winners?

Bullcrap!

Listen to reason for once and I don't want to hear about your strength training on how you are one of the strongest 10 on the board. Don't forget you train this way and even this is in question.

Are you stupid?

Add 20 years to you and your lifting heavy and come back and tell me that you are still among the strongest 10 on this board.

Strength is endurance, run a marathon and lets just see what place you come in.

Strength is full range of motion lets see you stretch and do the splits like me and am 45 years old.

Strength is the ability go get up every morning and support your family and do this to the best of your ability for 30 or more years.

Strength is the ability to see flaws and not expose them.

Strength is the ability to put a smile on someone's face that is having a bad time and expecting nothing in return.

Strength is compassion, love, and desire to fulfill your commitments to others.

Injury will sideline the best and age will sideline all!

It is not what you are that is important but what you are to others that is important.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

This is my balls and heart above^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^She is 5 and I am the #1 in her life!

Well maybe #2 besides Mom.

Titter, we will agree to disagree here :beer:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Give her the remote!


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

many people use genetics as an excuse for not getting what they desire, and personally I hate to hear people blaming genetics, 99% of people can build a good pyhsique with decent diet and exercise, most never get the diet part right.

But I have to say it's ridiculous to believe that genetics don't come into it, you will not be at the top in any physical sport unless you are blessed with good genetics. That's simple fact. Without good genetics you will not be on the stage at the O or in the final of WSM etc.

I missed your lifts James? did you edit them out of your post? top 5 on the forum, I'm impressed considering the last time I seen you posting them I didn't think they were anything outstanding. As an example your 1 rep max on squat a couple of months ago was 140kgs, I would imagine there's plenty of guys here using that weight (and heavier) for working sets of 8 reps. I would imagine the top 5 around here are squatting 200kg (or very close to) for 1 rep.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

James I agree with you all the way,

Genetics bull****

"Consieve believe achieve"

They did a program here in the uk called the challenge or experiment were they took just ordiary joe bloggs and helped them over 12-16 weeks to do the challenges of a lifetime,one attempted everest one walked to the north pole others did endurances races(some seiously brutal ones)and some of those races they won with no other background training in what they were doing,just proper training and diet regime and a sports phycologist helping them to get into the right mindset and helping them over come any mental blocks they were getting on the way.

Like I said earlier all the best bodybuilders that have ever been have been the ones with the right/best mindset,but everybody else just says its "genetics"

All I can say to that then if you go by how my genetics were as a youngster I should never have attempted this sport ever.

I used to throw the javelin for my school and at 4 foot 10 inches and weighing in at 91lbs at 16yrs old I was in the top 5 in the schools inmy area throwing nearly 40 meters with the shortest and slowest run up.

Why???

Because I worked on my techneque first and foremost I watched and watched and watched how the pros did it and altered it to suit me,people would laugh at me when I turned up to throw,didnt laugh much longer when I unleashed the fu(king javelin and kicked their asses.

And thats exactly the same appraoch I put into training try try try and if you fail try harder you`ll get there in the end.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

so you don't believe some people are more genetically gifted to be muscular and strong? come on dude be serious!

I could show you guys that haven't a clue what they're doing have crap diets and not very good training routines and they've gained better results than people training and eating properly for years.

An example is I guy I know who has only been training for 3 months, he's 5'10" and is now looking very muscular considering he's only started! he's sitting at 210lbs and benching 120kgs for sets of 8 reps. He doesn't have a clue and has just been following a routine out of a magazine. His diet is the same as any normal person 3 meals a day and not the right stuff, he doesn't even have a manual labour job and sits in an office all day so that can't expain his muscle. You can't tell me that guy doesn't have better genetics as there is no other explanation.

Myself and a guy I used to train with, both ate the same, cycled the same, trained together etc. started out with similar stats. Over the period of 2 years I ended up lifting at least 20-40kgs more than him in all the main lifts and weighed 2 stone heavier than him. What explanation is there for this other than genetics.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

well i agree with james 85% i think you aim high enough and you work hard at it you can do what you want with the results you desire, i think a fw people are coming across too strong with there disagreements, and i also agree with biker, i think genetics have to play a part in it, but i think its a small part anyways im a newbie but to me james makes more sence


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

as I said Deano I partially agree myself as many people use genetics as an excuse for failure and I hate hearing people saying they haven't good genetics, we all have good enough genetics to get a reasonable build, but to be exceptional I think requires something extra.

genetics are a factor and IMHO it's silly to suggest they are not.


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## GoldenArrow (Mar 30, 2004)

Biker said:


> Myself and a guy I used to train with, both ate the same, cycled the same, trained together etc. started out with similar stats. Over the period of 2 years I ended up lifting at least 20-40kgs more than him in all the main lifts and weighed 2 stone heavier than him. What explanation is there for this other than genetics.


Diet?


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

GoldenArrow said:


> Diet?


I take it you didn't actually read what you were replying to


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

OSC very impressive photos and a great transformation. But as I said I believe everyone can build a good body irrelevant of genetics, what I'm trying to say is that genetics come into play when it's the very top of the sport, know what I mean?


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

Biker, my lifts were in a PM to Big, as he was the only one that asked for them. If you read the post I said top 10, maybe top 5. Name more than 10 people on this board *that pull* 210kg with no belt, no straps, no nothing, and at less than 91kg BW..... and I will STFU. also, ask them how long it took to get there.

*that pull*= not used to, or have done, I mean do it now, and have proof.

Its not like being No11 is anything to be ashamed of anyhoo.

Back on topic:

WHERE THE HELL DID THIS GENETICS DOESN'T EXIST THIG COME FROM?

Guys, as a biology degree student, I am more than aware of the existence and role gentics play. HOWEVER. Adaptation can overcome that fairly easily.

IIRC Franco used to compete around the 220 mark, as does Dexter (and the list goes on). Getting even a 5'4'' man to 220 is not going to take an act of God, no matter how ****ty his 'genetics' are.

Look at GoldenArrows sig, if you can relate to that, you'll see what I am talking about.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

Biker said:


> OSC very impressive photos and a great transformation. But as I said I believe everyone can build a good body irrelevant of genetics, what I'm trying to say is that genetics come into play when it's the very top of the sport, know what I mean?


Agreed, but they are not as much of a deciding factor as determination and balls. IMO.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

well I would guess that anyone claiming it would be giving the same proof you are their word.

I would guess theres probably a fair few shifting that sort of weight. Although not me as I come into your "used to be able to" category 

from the very first time I deadlifted to the first time I achieved a 200kg deadlift took about 8 week of training with doing deads in my workout I think I managed at 160 on my first day trying them (previously I hadn't been doing them)


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> Agreed, but they are not as much of a deciding factor as determination and balls. IMO.


I also agree with that comment.

But this thread appeared to be going in the direction of suggesting that genetics had no part in the sport which is wrong.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

Biker said:


> well I would guess that anyone claiming it would be giving the same proof you are their word.
> 
> I would guess theres probably a fair few shifting that sort of weight. Although not me as I come into your "used to be able to" category
> 
> from the very first time I deadlifted to the first time I achieved a 200kg deadlift took about 8 week of training with doing deads in my workout I think I managed at 160 on my first day trying them (previously I hadn't been doing them)


Not sure why I asked for proof, its not somethign I usually do. Just typed fast. Apologies.

I would guess there were a fair few too. As in, less than 10 that do it totally, 100% RAW. If there is more than 10, then cool, great, but what will they be pulling in 6months, a year, 5 years???

I know you used to be able to. I wrote that so I didn't get 20 replies from bull****ters saying 'back in the day I pulled 700kg with 1 arm etc etc'. 

160 first time: I wish I had your genetics..... LOL. Seriously, I am happy to agree to dis..... on this. Its going in circles.


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## GoldenArrow (Mar 30, 2004)

Ok, I missed the 'both ate the same' bit. Does this mean you lived together, worked in the same place, prepared exactly the same meals and halved them exactly, ate at exactly the same time....etc etc.

Cause if not my reason could still be valid.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

GoldenArrow said:


> Ok, I missed the 'both ate the same' bit. Does this mean you lived together, worked in the same place, prepared exactly the same meals and halved them exactly, ate at exactly the same time....etc etc.
> 
> Cause if not my reason could still be valid.


lol no we didn't live together but we both followed the same diet plan. so although there may have been some small differences they should be pretty close.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

if they had roughly the same plan then diet cant really be a factor (in this case anyway) as biker had a much larger difference on lifts and body weight


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

Agree Biker. Not sure why the thread went off on some crazy 'genetics don't exist' tangent. Ah well.


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## GoldenArrow (Mar 30, 2004)

Biker said:


> lol no we didn't live together


Thank God!


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

well we discovered as time went on that he needed to consume about 1000 more cals a day than me to get similar results... but surely genetics should be the reason for that to be the case?


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2004)

Yes they would, but its the determination that makes him consume that extra 1000kcals to keep up with you.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Biker said:


> well we discovered as time went on that he needed to consume about 1000 more cals a day than me to get similar results... but surely genetics should be the reason for that to be the case?


exactly that, that has just proved there is such a thing as genetics? The fact is people get results at faster rates than others irrelevant of how much food you eat. Genetics have to be considered but i agree with everyone, 99% of people if they really wanted to could gain weight, some have to apply more effort than others.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

If I had the awsome genetics I probably wouldn't have lifted in the first place. That was 29 years ago. Still look like sh1t and never used genetics as an excuse.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Biker said:


> OSC very impressive photos and a great transformation. But as I said I believe everyone can build a good body irrelevant of genetics, what I'm trying to say is that genetics come into play when it's the very top of the sport, know what I mean?


Thanks,

But I know for a "FACT" that if I hadnt have done some of the things I had done I would have been at least 2 stones(28lbs for winger)heavier than what I got to,irrespective of "genetics"or what ever you want to call them.

I suppose this is just one of those disscussions were going to have to agree to disagree.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Look, the genetics part is set for us. Diet is key at this point in the game. But like biker said, the best of the best...............genetics. Well and Cookie too.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

killer kean mate james aint saying genetics DONT exist hes saying they cant hold you back, determination and hard work will overcome anything


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I like that long hair by cookie pick.

You look like that karate actor, that German guy that does all those cool kicks.

Anyway, That is my favorite pick cookie.

I never used the excuse that I had bad genetics for anything other than being short

Everyone can have a good body with some work in the gym and a good eating plan.

Set obtainable goals and reach for them.

I was just in disagreement with the original post that diet was nothing and genetics was nothing.

I believe this to be wrong and just made my points to validate my disagreement.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> DL: 185kg
> 
> SQ: 140 ATG


*Dated: 18-09-2004, 10:47 PM*

Top 5 huh?

These are your favorite lifts too.

Hate to see what the bench looks like.

Looks like you need some genetics


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well I guess that makes me one of the top 5 then.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah, I can bench what he can squat


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKI said:


> Thanks,
> 
> But I know for a "FACT" that if I hadnt have done some of the things I had done I would have been at least 2 stones(28lbs for winger)heavier than what I got to,irrespective of "genetics"or what ever you want to call them.
> 
> I suppose this is just one of those disscussions were going to have to agree to disagree.


If we all knew what we do now 10 years ago we would all be a lot bigger  but sadly for most of use that's the way it works out.

I don't really disagree with you OSC, I think you appear to think I'm saying you can't get a good build without great genetics and I've tried to make it clear throughout this thread I don't believe it's the case and for most people it's just an easy excuse, I just think it is a factor at the very peak of the sport I think it's the difference between those that win comps like the O and those that win smaller comps.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

I used to train with a guy that could bench 220kgs and deadlift 320kgs... I spent most of my time training with him feeling very puny


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well I agree, and I am still top 5..............lol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I do notice that the older I get I seem to put on mass easier.

I dont know the reason for this other than the fact im not as active as I once used to be.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2005)

That was 4 months ago you queer. I am 20lbs of musclew heavier and both of those lifts have about 30kg+ on them now, RAW. With a belt your looking at 40kg+


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2005)

hackskii said:


> Yah, I can bench what he can squat


I had no idea you were capable of a 160kg+ bench? Those lifts are:

[1] 4 months out of date.

[2] At a bodyweigfht of 180lbs, I am over 200 now.

[3] That is a RAW, as in no belt, ATG squat. To parallel and with a belt and wraps I can squat alot more. My best RAW ATG squat is 150kg. With a belt and to paralell I would wager that its in the region of 165kg, and with wraps your looking at 180kg minimum.

Don't be a d*cksucker. You have been training 25years so you told, and your lifts, like mine, are ****. Get with the program.

Lastly, my strength has nothing to do with any of this, the fact is, you got owned big time with your excuses so you picked out an egotistic statement of mine to play with.... That method of trying to discredit someone makes ytou look dumb. Its 1 step short of resorting to insults 'cos your rubbish at constructing aand putting your ill-thought-through point accross.

Any further discussion of my strength will be ignored. Think what you like, its no skin of my ****. In 6 months you'll be using the same weights and look the same, while I will be bigger and stronger than ever. Why? Because I don't make excuses.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> That was 4 months ago you queer. I am 20lbs of musclew heavier and both of those lifts have about 30kg+ on them now, RAW. With a belt your looking at 40kg+


That was 3 months ago and you are not 20 lbs of muscle heavier.

Maybe more like 4 lbs max being natural, and maybe not even at all 

The more you talk the more you seem to discredit yourself.

Titter you have been on the defence ever since you said that balls and heart were everything. Which is false.

You said that you were probably one of the top 5 in strength on the board. Which is false as well.

If you dont like the responces then dont make the comments.

I didnt call you any names like you just called me.

What gives?

You are exagerating to prove your point, calling me names because you are wrong and acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum.

You have been kicked off other boards, encite members here to arguement here and you say that I discredit myself?

Laughable bro.

Oh and if I had a bench shirt on I would bench more than you squat.

Would of's, could of's, should of's.

All excuses bro.

Oh and by the way you have been warned about name calling.

This will be your last and final warning about name calling titter.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> That was 4 months ago you queer.


thats not needed mate.... 



James.Titor said:


> I am 20lbs of musclew heavier and both of those lifts have about 30kg+ on them now, RAW. With a belt your looking at 40kg+


in 3 months u put on 20lbs of muscle natural?? i dont know many people that can gain 20lbs in 12 weeks on a cycle and keep it let alone natural


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

Maybe it was a little fat too?


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

bit off topic now guys :s


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

as i can only get on fleetingly, James you are well out of order, the name calling, the sarcasm, the i can lift this and if i wore this and that i could do more, its all crap, you need to have a look at yourself, you were doing so well and now you,ve just gone back to the same crap you used to spout before.

if you only come here to instigate which i think you do, you,d be better of not dropping by, and to all the mods on our board, how we can ban Insanity for what he did and how i can get 3 threads in a row locked for what i wrote, but this drivel can be tolerated is for me unbelievable, i think we need to have a look at the way were going with the board.

Its anew year and were trying to go forward yet we still put up with all this negativity, lets sort it out, asap.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Jimmy said:


> Maybe it was a little fat too?


Lol.

Hey James, why do you use belts and wraps in the first place? Remember the straps thread?

Here is a quote from you on the straps thread #20 to be exact.



James.Titor said:


> and thats why i lift in shorts and t-shirt. no belts, no wraps, no straps, no shirt, no suit. the only things i am wearing surplus to shorts and t-shirt is chalk on my hands, socks on my feet (yes, no shoes) and a bandana.


You went from Raw to aided lifts? Not having a go.  <-----------------------smiley it's all good.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

lol it is a bit out of order him getting away with thi somebody needs to give him an official warning or something


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

John

as far as I am concerned the argument is between hacks and james so if hacks wants him off then we will discuss it in the mod forum

there is alot discussed by us and a lot more that goes on that the members are unaware of

your a nice guy john with lots to contribute which makes all of us shine to you but please dont tell us how to mod buddy

the insanity thing is old news now....i never had a prob with him but if his crimes were so inocent, he would be back

I for one dont mind him back but the mods that have been around longer than myself have had to deal with him quite a bit over the past from what I hear

Please john, leave the mods to do their job with out too much stick....admin are the people to keep us in line mate 

cheers


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Yea John it's not always about you....................lol


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

winger said:


> Yea John it's not always about you....................lol


ROTFLMFAO    :bounce:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Poor guy, Jimmy just ripped him a new one...........lol


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

That wasnt my intention guys

i like john, i just wanted him to understand a little about how and why things are done


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

and i wasnt telling anyone how to run things, so i think you maybe took things a little out of context, and your right on the Insanity front so i wont mention that again.

how ever i was only drawing comparison to how i can get 3 threads in a row shut down, whilst speaking about the rep points issue, but this crap can be tolerated for so long, and i dont mean just this thread, its been going on for ages, and on the issue of its between hackskii and james, mate when we all have to put up with it in the forum, it affects more than the people ive mentioned above, and as ive read and written countless times aswell we dont know how many new members are seeing it, i just dont think it looks good for the board, yours john.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

thats ok john, you havent offended anyone ok


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2005)

> That was 3 months ago and you are not 20 lbs of muscle heavier.
> 
> Maybe more like 4 lbs max being natural, and maybe not even at all


My maxes were from the last time I maxed, August. August is the 8th month. 12-8=4.

What you beleive is entirely up to you. The fact of the matter is, I am 200lb now, and in September I was 180ish.



> Titter you have been on the defence ever since you said that balls and heart were everything. Which is false.


How am I to defend a statement without being defensive? Think about this before you type.



> You said that you were probably one of the top 5 in strength on the board. Which is false as well.


I meant to of use the word 'probablly'. Even so, I don't much care. Like I said, the onyl reason you dwell on this (which has nothign to do with the topic) is because your arguement is ****. Mine is not only truth, but backed by the ONLY semi-pro BBer (I.e. NOT YOU) in this discussion. Namely, OSC. He even gave me rep points for my post, infact, if you must know I recived more rep points for my posts in this topic than I accumulate do in any other topic.... (28 or something) What does that tell you?



> If you dont like the responces then dont make the comments.


Likewise.



> I didnt call you any names like you just called me.
> 
> What gives?


Are you blind? I said, it IS ONE STEP AWAY from name calling, something I was not able to resist myself.



> You are exagerating to prove your point, calling me names because you are wrong and acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum.


I don't throw tantrums, I just tell the truth and don't let you get away with bull****ting people. I WILL be a champion, poor genetics or not.



> You have been kicked off other boards, encite members here to arguement here and you say that I discredit myself?


Er... Yes. And your point is what exactly?



> Oh and if I had a bench shirt on I would bench more than you squat.
> 
> Would of's, could of's, should of's.
> 
> All excuses bro.


Yes they are. IF I had a bench shirt I could prolly bench more than I can squat RAW too. Big ho ho. Greaaaaat. Well done.



> Oh and by the way you have been warned about name calling.
> 
> This will be your last and final warning about name calling titter.


Big deal, you think I am ****ing ****d? You think I come here to learn from you? I come here to share my knowlage, ban me if you wish. BTW, your a hypocrite, calling me titer, however inoffensive it seems to you, is name calling. Its not my name, you don't have permission to call me by it. So, either stop being a girl and let me call you a queer from time to time, or don't call me titter or ANY other variantion on the words: James Titor.

I am done.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

ok, closed until this disrespect ends


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Problem sorted.

I apologize to anyone on the board who got offended with my comments.

We are all here to learn and have some fun.


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