# How much more to cut?



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Been cutting for the last 4 months to get rid of a lot of bodyfat. Aim is to get below 10% bf and then lean bulk. Problem is I'm getting really thin but I need to lose more fat. How much more do I go before I'm 'lean enough'?

Before.



Now.


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## Vivid (May 14, 2009)

Everyones definition of leans different&#8230; Just continue until your happy. For me its below 12%, i'm around 12% now but aiming for 9% within the next month.


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## Love2DL (Aug 29, 2012)

I would lean bulk now.


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

MFM said:


> Been cutting for the last 4 months to get rid of a lot of bodyfat. Aim is to get below 10% bf and then lean bulk. Problem is I'm getting really thin but I need to lose more fat. How much more do I go before I'm 'lean enough'?
> 
> Before.
> 
> ...


depends how you are cuttting, the thin could be temporary until you get your diet back up to above maintenance and fill out.

it looks to me like your still 18-25% at a really rough guess with only seeing the front and guessing if you are flexed or not.

your shoulder have lost size from looking at it and your waist is still there. you have been dropping cals constantly as you lose weight right?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

To be honest mate for a 4 month cut you haven't lost much.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Josh Heslop said:


> depends how you are cuttting, the thin could be temporary until you get your diet back up to above maintenance and fill out.
> 
> it looks to me like your still 18-25% at a really rough guess with only seeing the front and guessing if you are flexed or not.
> 
> your shoulder have lost size from looking at it and your waist is still there. you have been dropping cals constantly as you lose weight right?


Wow, still around 20% bf! You don't realize how fat you are until you lean out for months and then you're still fat. Haha.

I dropped the calories considerably to begin with, but that only had an effect for so long. Dropped it more again and then again, so I'm now on around 2100 cals a day. Not a lot for someone who's 6'2". In the first pic I was 95kg and now I'm 84kg. Does that mean I'll have to drop around another 10kg before I get close to 10% bf?

I'm not really keen to drop the calories even further, but I will if I have to. I've started doing more intensive cardio this week to try and help things along and it seems to be working.

I would appreciate any pointers though.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> To be honest mate for a 4 month cut you haven't lost much.


You say that, but for someone who has never cut in his life I don't think I've done too badly. The progress you see in the pics are from 3 months as I didn't train over Christmas.


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## Jayster (Oct 26, 2013)

MFM said:


> Wow, still around 20% bf! You don't realize how fat you are until you lean out for months and then you're still fat. Haha.
> 
> I dropped the calories considerably to begin with, but that only had an effect for so long. Dropped it more again and then again, so I'm now on around 2100 cals a day. Not a lot for someone who's 6'2". In the first pic I was 95kg and now I'm 84kg. Does that mean I'll have to drop around another 10kg before I get close to 10% bf?
> 
> ...


Have you thought about IF w/ fasted cardio?


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

MFM said:


> Wow, still around 20% bf! You don't realize how fat you are until you lean out for months and then you're still fat. Haha.
> 
> I dropped the calories considerably to begin with, but that only had an effect for so long. Dropped it more again and then again, so I'm now on around 2100 cals a day. Not a lot for someone who's 6'2". In the first pic I was 95kg and now I'm 84kg. Does that mean I'll have to drop around another 10kg before I get close to 10% bf?
> 
> ...


do this then and get it looked at properly. lets assume you train decently, and we now know your stats.

post up a very honst diet, including cheats and what you might snakc on, any drinks and juices too


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Jayster said:


> Have you thought about IF w/ fasted cardio?


I have, and it's an option if it really works.

I always train fasted though as I train first thing in the morning.


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

From the photo I don't think you are getting thinner - only better

Looks like a lot of quality work - respect !

I personally think you look a million times better

No real input just a thumbs up for hard work


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## Jayster (Oct 26, 2013)

MFM said:


> I have, and it's an option if it really works.
> 
> I always train fasted though as I train first thing in the morning.


It's not for everyone mate, but if you feel like mixing things up it might keep you motivated. Take the criticism on the chin and use it as motivation and get lean boy


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## Vivid (May 14, 2009)

I'd agree that your about 19-20%. Keep it as you have with the additional cardio, no need to drop cals further yet. You been doing refeeds? I'd have expected faster weight loss than just over a lb a week on 2.1k cals at your height/weight though tbh. When you say dropped a lot, what cals did you start on? To get to 10% from 20% you'll need to get down to around 75kg with no muscle loss...


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

andyhuggins said:


> To be honest mate for a 4 month cut you haven't lost much.


Andy, I don't want you looking at my pics mg:

Its difficult to get a clear idea from only two pictures but there is a level of fat loss. I would say your body fat is about 15 to 20%. Your body fat is roughly the same as mine and I am currently cutting. When cutting I always find I look very flat but you have to just keep going until you get to where you want to be. Once you up the calories again the muscles will fill out and you will look a lot fuller.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

@MFM as said previous post your diet etc so people can advice you mate.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Josh Heslop said:


> do this then and get it looked at properly. lets assume you train decently, and we now know your stats.
> 
> post up a very honst diet, including cheats and what you might snakc on, any drinks and juices too


Tbh, I don't have a strict set diet. I do get help from a nutritionist who asked if I wanted a set diet where I eat what he says, or a flexible diet where I eat what I want(within reason) as long as I hit my macros every day.

I went for the latter and just make sure I don't go over my macros. At the moment my macros are as follows.

Protein = 240g

Carbs = 140g

Fats = 60g

Then once a week I have a refeed day where I increase the carbs to 320g and eat a little less protein.

On a typical day I will eat like this.

Wake up, train.

8:00 - Two slices wholemeal toast with butter, 3 scrambled eggs, peanut butter and honey. Coffee with milk and sugar.

13:00 - 300g chicken and steamed mixed vegetables.

19:00 - 300g extra lean steak mince(or meatballs or burgers or bolognese), 140g basmati or jasmine rice, mixed steamed vegetables or corn on the cob etc.

That usually takes care of the calories for the day and I make up the rest of the protein, fat and carbs with a protein shake, peanut butter and skimmed milk if I have to.

I also snack on mixed nuts and dried fruits during the day, but it's minimal and probably only a handful.

And that's how I eat. No cheat meals as such and I never eat greasy deep fried food or takeaways. And if I do, it will be something like Nando's chicken with mash.

My only vice is a few alcoholic drinks over the weekend, but I always have Pepsi Max, never full sugar pop. Other than that I will drink coffee or tea with sweetener and a bit of milk. I only have sugar with one cup in the morning.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Vivid said:


> what cals did you start on?


I used to be on 3200-3500 cals a day dropped to 2100 cals.


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

MFM said:


> Tbh, I don't have a strict set diet. I do get help from a nutritionist who asked if I wanted a set diet where I eat what he says, or a flexible diet where I eat what I want(within reason) as long as I hit my macros every day.
> 
> I went for the latter and just make sure I don't go over my macros. At the moment my macros are as follows.
> 
> ...


well if this is right im confused a bit, it looks alright, not exactly perfect like you siad with no set plan.

i just have two questions to ask then. this protein shake, you said a shake. so you make up for everything you missed in just one of them or is it spread out through the day?

what do you eat on the refeed day and when you you have the extra to match up to that? might be worth seeing what ahppens with out the re feed. or like someone has said IF, or possibly keto diet, so drop the carbs even lower and jump the fats up to balance out more.

cause my working out would say your progress and loss should have been faster. unless you have taken a long long time to get down to that 2,060 cals


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Josh Heslop said:


> well if this is right im confused a bit, it looks alright, not exactly perfect like you siad with no set plan.
> 
> i just have two questions to ask then. this protein shake, you said a shake. so you make up for everything you missed in just one of them or is it spread out through the day?


Yes mate, only one shake. It doesn't take a lot to make up a measly 2000 odd calories! My nutritionist told me that meal timing is irrelevant anyway and you can have 6 meals a day or 1 if you wanted.



Josh Heslop said:


> what do you eat on the refeed day and when you you have the extra to match up to that?


I'll have lots of fruit, rice, bread, pasta, sugary yogurt drinks and even sweets like haribo etc. Basically anything full of carbs or sugar.



Josh Heslop said:


> might be worth seeing what ahppens with out the re feed. or like someone has said IF, or possibly keto diet, so drop the carbs even lower and jump the fats up to balance out more.
> 
> cause my working out would say your progress and loss should have been faster. unless you have taken a long long time to get down to that 2,060 cals


This is what's puzzled me as well. I dropped straight to around 2300 calories in the beginning. The fat came off quickly for a week or two and then slowed down, so I lowered the calories again. I would have thought that with a relatively big drop in food I would have seen quicker fat loss, but somehow my body has found a way around that. Haha


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

MFM said:


> Yes mate, only one shake. It doesn't take a lot to make up a measly 2000 odd calories! My nutritionist told me that meal timing is irrelevant anyway and you can have 6 meals a day or 1 if you wanted.
> 
> I'll have lots of fruit, rice, bread, pasta, sugary yogurt drinks and even sweets like haribo etc. Basically anything full of carbs or sugar.
> 
> This is what's puzzled me as well. I dropped straight to around 2300 calories in the beginning. The fat came off quickly for a week or two and then slowed down, so I lowered the calories again. I would have thought that with a relatively big drop in food I would have seen quicker fat loss, but somehow my body has found a way around that. Haha


alot of the best diets are very much based on timed eating. IF all about timing. carb cycling all about timing, re or pre loading all about timing. keto about timing so you dont starve to death and binge.

with the refeed though when do you eat it? if you sit and eat a load of crap before sleeping its not going to be the best for fat loss. i think it could be worth skipping the refeed for a while and seeing the effects of it, i havent refeeded for around 4 weeks. havent really cheated at all for 4 weeks either and ive lost faster than ever

it might just be a good idea to try a different diet and plan it out properly time wise to see if it makes a difference.

i am personally a fan of times carbs and keto. might be good for you given how you eat.

refeed you body after you train, not sumint to stupid though. if i remember right sumint arond 50-80g of carbs then stay off carbs for the rest of the day with veg not counting towards carbs really. no carbs on your off days if you can manage that, then one day a week increase the carbs so a bit higher to properly refeed your body. (now these arent my words, i read sumint that i look to mean this and tried it last year and ti worked in cutting time, please correct me if i have some things wrong). increase fats a it aswell to keep the calories at a healthy level

keto is just keto, no carbs, high pro, high fat, high as in 100g of fat plus depending. and one refeed day but dont go totally mental on it


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Cheers bud, I will certainly look into that. Until I have a clearer idea of what I need to do, I will keep pushing the cardio.

One thing about the training side of things - Do I mostly concentrate on strength training while on a cut as training for hypertrophy wouldn't make sense as I won't build any new muscle anyway?


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