# Pre/Post Cardio



## Omoplata (Dec 3, 2007)

Hi

I'm looking to start moving my Cardio Sessions to the morning to aid with Fat Loss. I'm probably going to be running within 5-10 minutes of waking up. I need some advice on pre/post meals/supplements/drinks to help me with this.

Thanks


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Fasted cardio presents the risk of placing the body into a catabolic state.

I'd have something to eat upon waking - even if its just 25g whey and 25g oats in water or milk.

Other options would be HIIT/Tabatas done either after your workout or on non-workout days.


----------



## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

IMO, doing cardio on an empty stomach is best for fat loss. There would be little point in having oats just to burn them off 30 mins later.

Some BCAA's would be ok with some water. Not sure about running though, but it depends on what you do/what your goals are.


----------



## Omoplata (Dec 3, 2007)

Just looking to do some cutting with some morning Cardio. Road work being the only thing available really before work.


----------



## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

I get up, neck some BCAA's with water then hit the treadmill, then eat 30 mins after cardio with oats & a shake, but that's just me.

I've done fast walking through the streets before, it's not too bad. Get your I-pod on, head down & get walking/running.


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

chrisj22 said:


> IMO, doing cardio on an empty stomach is best for fat loss.


Hang on - I'll find a link


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

try this when the link is up: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=747976

HIIT or Tabatas, done non fasted is the least catabolic form of cardio.


----------



## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

I'll check the link out when it's back up & running. I would have thought anything high intensity on an empty stomach wouldn't be brilliant for fat burning TBH. Apparently, being able to hold a conversation (i.e. not holding on to the treadmill gasping for breath) whilst performing the x trainer, for example, is optimal for fat loss.


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

chrisj22 said:


> I'll check the link out when it's back up & running. *I would have though anything high intensity on an empty stomach wouldn't be brilliant for fat burning TBH*. Apparently, being able to hold a conversation (i.e. not holding on to the treadmill gasping for breath) whilst performing the x trainer, for example, is optimal for fat loss.


Lol thats what I'm saying 

If you do HIIT or any cardio when you wake up without eating first (i.e. fasted) you will place your body into a catabolic state.

Personally I do cardio at the end of a workout or on a morning.

But I never do any exercise in a fasted state.


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

The Google Cache of the article...

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:qbAeBg_URykJ:forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D747976+http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D747976&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk


----------



## Omoplata (Dec 3, 2007)

So many big words! So much to digest! So morning cardio... good/bad? Water + BCAA's... good/bad?

Haha. All the best for the new year!


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Waters + BCAAs = Good.

Morning Cardio before breakfast = bad IMHO.

Try doing HIIT or Tabatas after your workout and on non workout days if you can manage it.


----------



## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

On another board I read that BCAA's actually cause an insulin spike therefore shouldn't be taken before cardio. I've not had chance to read up anymore about this, but I was under the impression that BCAA's were perfect pre-fasted cardio to help prevent catabolism.

Maybe Glutamine is better? I've read much about people using <25g of Whey pre am cardio and still having very good fat loss results.

I like fasted am cadio - it's worked for me in the past. Not HIIT - just low intensity.

I'm interested in Tabatas - but I'd be interested to see how it affects workouts and recovery. I mean if you are doing push up tabatas for example, how would this impact chest/shoulder/tricep recovery? Just a thought.


----------



## Omoplata (Dec 3, 2007)

TH&S said:


> Waters + BCAAs = Good.
> 
> Morning Cardio before breakfast = bad IMHO.
> 
> Try doing HIIT or Tabatas after your workout and on non workout days if you can manage it.


Probably worth noting that I'm not a lifter... I'm only interesting in losing weight for the moment to make 75kg.


----------



## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

Omoplata said:


> Probably worth noting that I'm not a lifter... I'm only interesting in losing weight for the moment to make 75kg.


In that case just get yourself out running 3 or 4 times a week on an empty stomach,anytime that's convenient,and throw in some bodyweight exercises for good luck.

Diet will be key,i imagine some improvements to your current could be made.Post your typical days feed in the relevant section.


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

I would do some circuit training if i was you in that case.

Build a bit of muscle, loose fat at the same time (chances are)

Watch the diet. Job done


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

invisiblekid said:


> I'm interested in Tabatas - but I'd be interested to see how it affects workouts and recovery. I mean if you are doing push up tabatas for example, how would this impact chest/shoulder/tricep recovery? Just a thought.


Press up's wouldnt really be suitable for tabatas.

Burpees would be fine however. You need to really do a whole body type exercise to get the desired effect.

Will it effect recovery?? Possible...... only one way to find out tho


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

TBH IMO i would say that doing cardio on a totally empty stomach is bad but doing it on a protein intake of around 15-25g would be sufficient for fat burning without falling risk of going into a catabolic state IMHO that is, and i do know a lot of athletes and BB do this as well as doing cardio 1st thing in a morning speeds up natural metabolism for the rest of the day!


----------



## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

invisiblekid said:


> On another board I read that BCAA's actually cause an insulin spike therefore shouldn't be taken before cardio. I've not had chance to read up anymore about this, but I was under the impression that BCAA's were perfect pre-fasted cardio to help prevent catabolism.


Yes the l-lecuine in the BCAA does cause a significant release of insulin but how will this effect fat burning?

It won't of course unless you have consumed a carb source along side it. In fact the insulin will help prevent a heavy cortisol release so BCAA have two angles of attack on catabolism. It could possibly effect the GH release from your cardio (this is of course speculation and unproven).


----------



## Guest (Jan 1, 2008)

Ah stop stressing your self out so much do cardio first thing in the am maybe have a black coffee first if your eating is good through the day you will lose very little muscle, cracks me up how people want to eat so great around cardio and training and then the rest of the day its like who cares:crazy:


----------



## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Agree with Con..

Mornign cardio before food is the best imo.. the amount of muscle u can burn in 40mins is pretty damn low!!

get up hit a black coffee (or caffiene tab) some glutamine* and get your heart rate up2 140bpm for 40 mins.. have a lil stretch and get some food in ya!

* some say glutamine doesnt work- it costs about £15 for 1kg at bulkpowders which will last about a year... who cares if it does or doesnt for £15!!


----------



## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

Agree with DB and Con here. Catabolism during cardio is overhyped IMO- unless you've carb depleted over a number of days AND total kcals are very low.

I run for 30 mins most mornings on an empty stomach HR approx 160bpm and I think my lifts below aren't poor.

As long as your diet for the rest of the day is adjusted for this then you'll be fine.


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

pauly7582 said:


> Agree with DB and Con here. Catabolism during cardio is overhyped IMO- unless you've carb depleted over a number of days AND total kcals are very low.
> 
> I run for 30 mins most mornings on an empty stomach HR approx 160bpm and I think my lifts below aren't poor.
> 
> As long as your diet for the rest of the day is adjusted for this then you'll be fine.


I'm going to throw something in here ...

Assuming the OP is natural, he stands greater risk of catabolism than an AAS user.

Read the article I posted - tis an interesting read.

Long and short - nattys and the testosterone enhanced can't be expected to train the same IMHO.


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

The original poster dont even train with weights guys. Just wants to trim up a bit.

HIIT after a meal

Fasted low intensity am cardio

Fueled low intensity cardio

Cardio while eating lol

Its gonna make little difference with such moderate goals. 

Just get the cardio done


----------



## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

Well me I wake up 6:50 am, chew on a few grenades("fat burners" I have about 6 -.-) go for a 30 min walk to shop and back, now moved up to 30 mins on the bike. Once finished im dripping with sweat like a mofo! I have a creatine in juice shower and then eat at 8. So I finish at 7:30-7:35. I love my pre morning cardio and cause of the grenades im hot all day!


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2008)

TH&S said:


> I'm going to throw something in here ...
> 
> Assuming the OP is natural, he stands greater risk of catabolism than an AAS user.
> 
> ...


True but hes not getting cut for a show and muscle loss is highly overrated natty or not......ok ok if he really wants to get high tech he could use carnitine glutamine green tea and a whole range of various stuff but reading his post i think his best bet is just to get it done.

You are very valid with what you say though bud not disagreeing there


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

i have a coffee, get out of bed and do 30 mins fast paced walking before break when dieting, and when not dieting for that matter as it seems to energise me for the rest of the day


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Kezz said:


> i have a coffee, get out of bed and do 30 mins fast paced walking before break when dieting well i do it when not dieting too lol


How is the diet going Kezz ?


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I have had man flu for 2 weeks mate, so training and diet have been non existant, am gutted really but had my first workout last night and felt ok so will keep cals high for the next 4 weeks and hit the diet again mid feb for the final push


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Kezz said:


> I have had man flu for 2 weeks mate, so training and diet have been non existant, am gutted really but had my first workout last night and felt ok so will keep cals high for the next 4 weeks and hit the diet again mid feb for the final push


That sucks!!

Well hope you get back into it soon dude 

Dieting over the holidays would have been a bitch anyway lol


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2008)

Did you really eat 15 cheese burgers or are you just talking **** bully? If so thats very impressive i can manage 4 before i get close to puking!


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Con said:


> Did you really eat 15 cheese burgers or are you just talking **** bully? If so thats very impressive i can manage 4 before i get close to puking!


PMSL,

I dont make a habit of it, but yes i did nail 15 cheeseburgers the other day 

You need to try harder Con buddy 

reggers:reggers:


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

what one after the other?? respect!!!!


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2008)

Doesnt that work out at like 7500cals or some crazy ****?????????!


----------



## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Dunno how many calories lol

It was after a few beers, i get the muchies big time!

You wouldnt believe what i can eat when im hungry


----------



## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Bulldozer said:


> Dunno how many calories lol
> 
> It was after a few beers, i get the muchies big time!
> 
> You wouldnt believe what i can eat when im hungry


I would 

Appetite of destruction


----------

