# Training volume, how much is too much?



## BigRT (Apr 22, 2014)

I can't help but notice when reading around that a lot of people's training volumes differ massively, some going as low as 4-5 sets per muscle group and that's it done..

just wanted to see what everyone else on here does? When I see that people have done 9-12 sets on chest I think if I did that I would be out the gym in 30 mins but I like to spend 60-80 mins in the gym.

For instance my last chest workout was like this.

4 X incline dumbbell press

4 x hammer strength press

4 x close grip dumbbell press

4 x decline hammer strength

6 x flies (3 for upper 3 for lower)

1-2 mins rest between sets

then I usually just finish the triceps off with a couple of sets at the end same with biceps on back, not too much because I have a specific arm day.

i usually go as heavy as possible to start with and then vary the rep ranges later on in the workout trying to concentrate on peak contractions and the "squeeze"

my routine at the min is as follows

mon - chest

tues - back/ traps

weds - rest

thurs - delts/ abs

fri - biceps/ triceps/ forarms

sat - legs

sun - rest/ cardio/ abs depending

so yeah compared to what I've been reading this seems like an obsurd amount of volume.. however my training isn't to indifferent to some of the real big boys at my gym. I just don't leave the gym satisfied unless I've done that sort of volume but wanted to compare to all your guys training!

Ive been training properly for 4 ish years by the way.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Are you a natty ?

However, that volume is a bit more for any. What I usually used to do, one compound and 2 isolation exercises for one bodypart.

For chest, let's say

1) I would do any of the three benches either with BB or DB

2) DB fly's, pec Dec, cable fly's, crossovers. Any two from them.

Recovery is very individual thing IMO. No one can tell if you are lifting too much or not. It's your own body that will tell the truth. But. That much of volume is not required for a single body part in one single day IME.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FWIW the best guess based on the literature is that you want to be doing at least 10 sets per muscle per week ( data for natties of course):

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brad_Schoenfeld/publication/305455324_Dose-response_relationship_between_weekly_resistance_training_volume_and_increases_in_muscle_mass_A_systematic_review_and_meta-analysis/links/57921c1d08ae33e89f74ef0c.pdf

I do about 10-12 per muscle per week at the moment, training each muscle twice per week.

What is ultimately 'best' will depend on the individual and some degree of experimentation is well worth it I reckon, which includes trying lower volume as well as higher.


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## BigRT (Apr 22, 2014)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Are you a natty ?
> 
> However, that volume is a bit more for any. What I usually used to do, one compound and 2 isolation exercises for one bodypart.
> 
> ...


 At the minute Im on cycle of test and tbol 2nd week in, But I'll only do a 10 week cycle and have a year off but training when off still I do high volume. I don't necessarily feel I'm doing something wrong because this year I have made some nice progress! Just made me think hold on a minute no one else is doing this sort of volume?


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## BigRT (Apr 22, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> FWIW the best guess based on the literature is that you want to be doing at least 10 sets per muscle per week ( data for natties of course):
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brad_Schoenfeld/publication/305455324_Dose-response_relationship_between_weekly_resistance_training_volume_and_increases_in_muscle_mass_A_systematic_review_and_meta-analysis/links/57921c1d08ae33e89f74ef0c.pdf
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the link mate I'll be sure to give that a good read!

Yeah I agree I have tried such as a push pull split before, so would have done a lot less volume on each muscle per workout. Ill probs try changing it up again soon. What's your routine look like?


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

That seems a normal workout for me, however, if your were smashing the intensity, every set was a near death exp and Natty, then i'd say it too much.

All depends on intensity, your nutrition, rest, etc.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

BigRT said:


> Thanks for the link mate I'll be sure to give that a good read!


 To be completely honest it won't tell you a fat lot, particularly on cycle. But it's out there so I thought I'd post it. There are just so many more variables to factor in than how many sets you do that getting a decent answer is pretty much impossible.



> Yeah I agree I have tried such as a push pull split before, so would have done a lot less volume on each muscle per workout. Ill probs try changing it up again soon. What's your routine look like?


 I'm working on my routine at the moment to be honest. Yesterday I did a lower session of squats, RDLs and calf raises. I like RDLs but they work the back a fair amount so currently wondering how best to balance things across the week. I was thinking of an upper/lower split four days per week.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

RobPianaLad said:


> That seems a normal workout for me, however, if your were smashing the intensity, every set was a near death exp and Natty, then i'd say it too much.
> 
> All depends on intensity, your nutrition, rest, etc.


 The higher the intensity the smaller the workload.


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## BigRT (Apr 22, 2014)

RobPianaLad said:


> That seems a normal workout for me, however, if your were smashing the intensity, every set was a near death exp and Natty, then i'd say it too much.
> 
> All depends on intensity, your nutrition, rest, etc.


 yeah i tend to have the first two exercises where i test my strength with really high intensity lower reps. then as my workout goes on it usually drops to get some nice reps focusing on getting a nice pump (i know people argue the pump means nothing but i feel the more blood in the muscle the more nutrients... plus it feels good!!!)


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

BigRT said:


> yeah i tend to have the first two exercises where i test my strength with really high intensity lower reps. then as my workout goes on it usually drops to get some nice reps focusing on getting a nice pump (i know people argue the pump means nothing but i feel the more blood in the muscle the more nutrients... plus it feels good!!!)


 thats how i have historically trained


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

This is an easier question to answer if you are training 'for something' ie trying to 'peak' either in terms of physique or strength or any other attribute you wish to develop....so you saying i do x sets of x movements is the answer to a question that cant be answered...

Are you improving the way you want? Do you enjoy training this way? If what your doing is working....your doing it right


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## skylarr123 (Dec 4, 2015)

Going against the grain of what 99% of people seem to say...

If your natural you should be training more volume/frequency than if your on aas etc.

I personally think you can train everything twice a week make better gains but especially if natural


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

skylarr123 said:


> Going against the grain of what 99% of people seem to say...
> 
> If your natural you should be training more volume/frequency than if your on aas etc.
> 
> I personally think you can train everything twice a week make better gains but especially if natural


 Don't know about the volume but practically everyone on this board would advise a natural to train with a higher frequency.


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## skylarr123 (Dec 4, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Don't know about the volume but practically everyone on this board would advise a natural to train with a higher frequency.


 Alot of people are under the impression naturals need to train less cause of the faster recovery of aas.

Same as people on aas need more protein or can metabolise more protein which is also incorrect


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

skylarr123 said:


> Alot of people are under the impression naturals need to train less cause of the faster recovery of aas.
> 
> Same as people on aas need more protein or can metabolise more protein which is also incorrect


 Read through some of the treads in the natural BB section, you will see full body routines highly recommended by most.


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## skylarr123 (Dec 4, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Read through some of the treads in the natural BB section, you will see full body routines highly recommended by most.


 I find full body routines to be pretty hard to the point of diminishing returns like if you've done a max set of squats you'd be pushed to do a mac set of rows for example. I find a PPL routine to bring the best of both so to speak


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

skylarr123 said:


> I find full body routines to be pretty hard to the point of diminishing returns like if you've done a max set of squats you'd be pushed to do a mac set of rows for example. I find a PPL routine to bring the best of both so to speak


 I see your point but you can always train full body with a different emphasis on each training day, there is no reason it always has to be squats first except with a few specific programs. Rotate the main lifts, add a couple of compound exercises for higher sets and reps and some isolation work on the end of each session. Should keep most going for years.


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## TREACLE (Jun 6, 2016)

A lower volume, higher frequency routine (push/pull my favourite) I've found gives the best mass and strength gains, after years of trial and error. FWIW


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

skylarr123 said:


> Alot of people are under the impression naturals need to train less cause of the faster recovery of aas.
> 
> Same as people on aas need more protein or can metabolise more protein which is also incorrect


 Not quite right on either front mate. In terms of frequency, in natties it's not all down to recovery or that natties need to train more - it's that protein synthesis is only increased for a few days after training so it makes sense to train each muscle twice a week. However, that doesn't mean training more often in general, it just means training each muscle often and train it at low volume to balance things. No need to train any more than 4 days a week as a natty.

AAS increases protein-turnover rate and synthesis, and while more protein isn't necessarily needed, it's beneficial.


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