# Cissus quadrangularis & injuries



## Truewarrior1

*jus bought 100g for me n a m8 each , information below.*

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Cissus has a large vitamin component but more importantly the ability to deliver the vitamin to the target tissue.Cissus also stimulates myoblast and osteoblast acitivity. Form my brief studies on Tendons, Osteoblasts and myoblasts stimulate collagen II synthesis. Just because we stimulate collagen II synthesis does not exactly correlate to HEALING of an injury. You can stimulate Collagen II synthesis and GROW NEW tissue. New tissue is great if its directly stimulated where injury occurs. You can stimulate new growth but the growth may be away from the injury. A great example is your brick wall has a whole in it and instead of patching the whole directly you build a NEW wall to over the whole. The structural instability is still present.

Cissus in research has proven to correct structural instability in fractures. The healing process of Fractures includes Tendon and ligament stability.

THE SCIENCE

Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 gramalso s to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis, which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.

Real World Application for injuries

Simply if your suffering from Joint pain, Ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage, Cissus is the supplement to use. It has been my experience that many grapplers take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. Cissus has the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury while promoting healing.

Some users will get instant relief and other will need to use Cissus for much longer period of time for complete healing of an injury. Leverage performance science is not claiming that Cissus will work 100% percent of the time that would be a foolish claim. We have estimated that 85% of user experience relief from our product. This number may lower or rise as more consumers send in reports. In the PHARMACUETICAL industry a 50% success rate is good. Since we talking about the Pharmaceutical industry, they have yet to produce a product that helps the healing process. They just develop pain medications that are often addicting.

THE OTHER SIDE EFFECT IS ANABOLIC!

Cissus is anabolic and anti-catabolic!!! Cissus users report a "PUMP" that we call the Cissus pump. The PUMP effect becomes prevalent at approximately 10-15 days of continous Cissus use. The "PUMP" is due to the increase of blood flow to the muscle. The Cissus pump will have you flexing your muscle for no apparent reason. This is when you know the product has exerted its effect.

Cissus is a powerful natural anabolic; if not the most powerful natural anabolic on the market. Why would a grappler need it? An Anabolic and anti-catabolic substance allows for faster recovery from exercise, from injury, increase in muscle strength, and stamina. In short, you will be able to train longer and recover faster without the negative effects of anabolic steroids.

Cissus is also an ideal product to use in conjuntion with cAMPED for dropping weight. Imagine decreasing bodyfat while simultaneously retaining your strength and preserving muscle mass while on a calorie restricted diet! The combined effects of Cissus and cAMPED become a powerful tool for any competive grappler!

WARNING

If using Cissus to heal injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) effect . This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution until full recovery has been achieved. On the contrary, if using Cissus primarily for its Anabolic properties your training program should be continued with maximum intensity to reap the full benefits of this product.

Roll On!

References

1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8

2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.

3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.

4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.

5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.

6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.

7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7rences

*
the feedback on this product so far has been nothing short of amazing in some cases...........*

"Amazing stuff. All I can say is that it works. I developed tendonitis in my right elbow. After going to the doctor, who gave me cortisone shots and to a physical therapist who did nothing, I heard about this stuff on bodybuilding.com. On the first dose, I noticed the pain going away. After a month, my tendonitis pretty much disappeared. Unreal. I've tried glucosamine/msm - a waste. This stuff works. I would say it healed me."

"Cissus, Ohh cissus! This stuff rocks! I had a serious shoulder pain for months. I began megadosing cissus at 12 caps a day (using usplabs cissus rx)... After 1 week pain was lessining. After two weeks, I was really starting to feel better. After 3 weeks The PAIN WAS GONE! It was amazing... Going from dealing with this naggin pain in my mid to rear delt for months.. to being able to bench and shoulder press like a champ! During this period I also leaned up dramatically w/ out drastic changes in my diet. To say the least I'm impressed!"

"Help my joints out in 3 days...nothing else worked unless I took it for 60 days or more.

This stuff is amazing. Haven't felt any anabolic effects from it though."

"I do quite a bit of squats and deadlifts.

Plus as a martial artist I have to have fleixibility and fluidity in my joints.

Cissus eased my joint pain in about a week of taking it.

And I seem to be able to move faster and the snaps on my punches and kicks are tighter

and more efficient.

Also it seems to help when I am lifting because its easier to maitain form; its like those small support muscles are stronger.

Might not work for everyone but it works perfectly for me."

"I DISLOCATED my patella (knee cap) December 26 2004. You can only imagine the kind of pain I went through. My doctor also told me I could never do squats for the rest of my entire life. It didn't set in till I realized he wasnt kidding. Going down the stairs even had me paranoid. My knee would alwasy feel funny walking down some stairs. After using this supplement my joints dont feel bad or have a different feeling that it usually has. I know it probably wont be the miracle pill that I'm looking for to completely heal an irreverisble problem (ligaments tore and supposedly they'll never heal 100%). But it does help a lot! so 5 stars"

"I had a neck injury and this really does kill pain. Hard to say if it strengthens tendons and ligaments yet but I can say for sure it eases pain. Actually helped with my pain more than ibubrofen.

I never noticed relief from glucosamin/msm so it's cool to have something else that's natural.

Also notice better pumps during training. A nice bonus."

*continued...*


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## Truewarrior1

"Cissus was a life-saver while on my first PH cycle. My joints and tendons where sore 24-7. Within a few days, they were all better. This stuff also gives some pretty great pumps; although, it takes some time for that to happen, but when it does, watch out. "

"Definitely works good and does what it says. Id been battling some tendonitis in my knees for quite a long time and its gone now. Theres no more pain and they just feel smoother. Two caps twice a day is all thats needed (Im around 230-240lbs too). I havent tried any other joint care products so I have nothing to compare it to, but Im having a hard time thinking anything could beat this.

Havent noticed anything anabolic from it though. Maybe thats only when its mega dosed."

" I have knee problems that always make leg days hard. With a combination of Cissus and occaisonally a Mobic, I'm virtually pain free.

And the price is very nice."

"

I was very skeptical but gave it a try for some knee pain I'd been having for several months. It didn't completely wipe it out, but it took it from about a 7 to a 3 on the pain scale in a matter of days. Gluc, Cond, & MSM did nothing. I am very impressed with this product."

"GREAT PRODUCT. I HAD ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY AND AFTER THE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WERE REALLY JUST DULLING THE PAIN I DECIDED TO TRY THIS. GLUCOSAMINE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE PAIN THIS STUFF ON THE OTHER HAND IS AMAZING. IT COMPLETELY WIPED THE PAIN OUT. I TAKE THREE TIMES A DAY TWO CAPS AND NO PAIN. THIS STUFF IS AMAZING AND FAR BETTER THAN THE 4 ALEVE PER DAY I WAS USING AND MUCH SAFER. I HAVEN'T NOTICE ANYTHING ANABOLIC THOUGH YET THAT IS NOT WHY I GOT THIS PRODUCT I GOT IT STRICTLY FOR PAIN RELIEF WHICH IT WORKS WONDERS."

*and only 2 negatives reviews*

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*

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"*I bought 2 bottles in hopes it would help with arthritic symptoms of an old shoulder injury as well as the anaboplic effects. Well, Ive taken this for 5 weeks and havent noticed anything from it. I wont be buying it again."

"

Nothing special to me. Had to up the dosage to 3 pills, twice daily to feel any joint repair. I feel like this product has been over hyped on the Forums."

*just posting some info on this new supp and i'll be updating this thread with how me and my friend get on with it.*


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## hackskii

Bump for Nytol, he was asking me if I heard about this. I typed up an article that was in a mag but had not any way near the info your article had.

Nice find.

My knees bug me too, I think I will buy some of this stuff.

Here is a snip:

A recent study was undertaken to investigate the role of Cissus quadrangularis in stimulating gonadotropins and to establish its use in male/female reproductive disorders as well as a safe alternative to synthetic androgens.*

50 Human healthy adult male volunteers were selected and each was given 120 capsules each containing either 150mg of Cissus quadrangularis (standardized to 5% keto-steroids) or 150mg microcrystalline cellulose. The bottles were coded and randomly distributed amongst the volunteers. Each volunteer was prescribed 1 capsule TDS ½ hour before meals.

Blood was drawn from each volunteer at day 1 and basal rates of testosterone, LH and FSH were determined. The volunteers were then called back at day 30 and day 60 for a second round of blood assay. The results are presented below:

These results show that serum testosterone levels were increased nearly 4 times over the levels at the beginning of the study. The largest increase in testosterone occurred in the first 30 days of this study.

*I think I might have found the cheapest price on the powder.*

*
I have a capper.*

http://customnutritionwarehouse.com/cissus-powder-p-1043.html


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## hackskii

Just purchased 2.2 pounds of this stuff.

I had to I got a discount for 10

I bought 1000 grams for just under 100 bucks with shipping and taxes. Came to just under $10.00 per 100 grams.

Might have to chuck it in my pwo shake.

I can only imagine what that stuff tasts like.

If it is as good as half the claims I am reading I will be happy, carb blocking, fat loss, muscle grwoth, bone health, joint health, raising testosterone, all good and this would be a nice addition to my PCT.

I hate market hype.


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## hackskii

Bump, product has arrived.

It smells like cocoa.


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## Nytol

Cheers Hack, it is supposed to taste quite nasty, I'd cap it, lol.

Be interested in your results, both of you.

TrueWarrior, where did you get yours from, can you post a link please if it is UK based, as I would like to get some.


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## the_gre8t_1ne

Bump wat Nytol said!


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## Tatyana

From True Warrior

www.bulkpowders.co.uk

x

x

x

T


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## Nytol

Thanks Tatyana, I shall order some now,  probably other stuff too, I tend to get carried away on that site, lol


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## hackskii

I gotta order those caps, I cant handle the smell of that stuff now:eek:


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## tkd

Im interested in using cissus, but need more info about doseages and what time to take them?


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## Nytol

I quickly read that 3g twice per day was good, but I need to look into it further.


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## hackskii

Nytol said:


> I quickly read that 3g twice per day was good, but I need to look into it further.


Well, for me I tend to double everything

If it says 3 I take 6 or even 9.

What ever you do dont put a spoonfull in your protein shake or it will go down the drain.

I gotta get those caps going. I have a capper but no caps.


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## Nytol

Lol, I shall be capping for sure


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## fits

keep us updated please hack, and any one else taking  :beer1:


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## tkd

USP labs recommends 1225mg twice a day.

Cissus Quadrangularis

Serving Size: 2 Capsules

Servings Per Container: 65

Amount Per Serving:

Cissus Quandrangularis 1225mg

Directions: As a dietary supplement, take two capsules in the morning prior to breakfast and two capsules six to eight hours later. Cissus Rx promotes healthy and strong tendons, ligaments, cartilage and joints. The anabolic effects of Cissus Rx should be felt within 12-18 days marked by an increase in strength, recovery, and blood flow to the muscle (pump). Cissus Rx should be used for a MINIMUM of thirty days to allow for full recovery and muscle growth potential.


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## Truewarrior1

it has definately made an improvement so far on my shoulder and my friends knee.


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## Tatyana

I got my powder on saturday, yes it is brown, and I would say it smells like celery!

It is seriously bitter, I think I am going to have to learn how to cap stuff.

x

x

x

T


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## Nytol

Just orderd Cissus (10%), MSM, and Glucosamine, I dont care which one works, as long as one does.

I shall cap all of them, not into drinking nasty stuff


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## invisiblekid

Is it any worse than Creatine CEE from bulkpowders? Also, would there be any problem just drinking it diluting juice and water?


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## hackskii

It is very nasty. I need to get started in my capping.

I got years worth.

Sounds good for PCT too.


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## Nytol

Hack, those Aflutops did nothing really, knees etc feel as bad now as they did before.

I did 1 amp per day for 21 days, which is the recomended course.


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## hackskii

Truewarrior1 said:


> it has definately made an improvement so far on my shoulder and my friends knee.


That is probably the natural analgesic properties of it, not so much healing. Injuries take a long time to repair, possibly even months.



Nytol said:


> Hack, those Aflutops did nothing really, knees etc feel as bad now as they did before.
> 
> I did 1 amp per day for 21 days, which is the recomended course.


Thanks for that, I always wondered if this worked.

Cheers.


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## hackskii

Just capped up 50 caps of "00"

I just put them in a bowl to use and they kind of got sticky in the bowl.

I bought over 2.2 pounds of this stuff and now I am thinking the powder will get moisture and then I wont be able to cap it.

I live near the beach and moisture in the form of humidity is everywhere.

Maybe I should throw some of those silicone things in there to absorb moisture.

I am starting on 5 a day to see if it helps. Hell, as much as I have I might take more.

I bought 1,000 caps


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## Nytol

How many mg did you get per cap?

Which Cissus do you have, the 5% or 10%, my plan is to take 6g per day of the 10%, I have 500g on the way, so it should be more than enough to see if it works at all.


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## hackskii

I dont know, they are 00 caps and I just filled them up.

I got so much of the stuff I am pounding like 6 caps a day maybe even more.

The stuff will go bad before I run out

I actually do notice the mild anti-inflammatory of it already after a couple of days on it.

Only tmie will tell really.


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## Nytol

You did not weigh them? That does surprise me.

I dont like 00's, I find them hard to swallow, I'd rather eat 3 size 0's, than 1 00.

Mine came this morning, smells nasty, certainly would not want to be drinking it :yuck:


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## Truewarrior1

i drink mine, you get used to it.


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## hackskii

I do notice that anti-inflammation properties.

Walking up the stairs I for sure noticed less pain.

I am very pumped about this and am taking 6-8 (00) caps a day.

I will keep you all informed.


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## fits

hackskii said:


> I am very pumped about this and am taking 6-8 (00) caps a day.
> 
> I will keep you all informed.


 You mean your excited about it? or you are feling the 'pump' that some people ay you get when using it?


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## hackskii

fits said:


> You mean your excited about it? or you are feling the 'pump' that some people ay you get when using it?


Well, I am on test and var and IGF at the moment so I am pumped anyway

I did feel good today.

I do feel less grindy at the moment, cissus has anti-inflammation properties in it so I am guessing that is it.

Connective tissue repair takes a long time to repair like 8-12 weeks.


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## invisiblekid

What is the actual RDA of USPlabs Cissus Quadrangularis 10%? And when should it be taken? From what I've read it is around 500mg - 1000mg depending on the consentration of the extract.

I've got the 10.35% and I'm thinking 2g p/day. I weigh 80kg. What is everyone else taking?


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## hackskii

Hell, I just brough 7 caps of 00 into work and I have no idea how much that is. Im probably like anyone else and if it says take 500mg I double it

Hell, probably even triple it or even more.

Been giving it to my dog too.

To my knowledge there isnt an RDA, and if there was how would they come up with that number?


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## DB

00 are normally around the 750mg mark i think mate (depending on the density of the powder and how compressed etc


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## hackskii

Ok, I didnt tap the caps and looking at them they are just under half full.

They settled and kind of caked together.

It is humid here and it sets the powder up like rock in days.

That stuff is seriously stickey when any moisture gets near it.

The caps were just laying in a bowl and now they have settled on one side and stuck in the cap.

Next batch I will tap the crap out of them. 

Nytol told me about the settling issue in a PM.

Oh well, I still have 950 "00" caps left

I think its anti-inflammatory properties are working.

I feel less stiff today.

And when you are as old as me this is a good thing......haaaaa haaaa

I love chopping myself down..........


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## Nytol

Truewarrior1 said:


> i drink mine, you get used to it.


You are hardcore mate, I could not even think about it, after smelling it,


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## hackskii

I almost barfed right now:eek:

Just kidding, I put some in some lactobacillus acidophilus liquid and my dog eats it right up.

Beings she was diagnosed with hip dysplasia I figure it cant hurt her.


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## Truewarrior1

Nytol said:


> You are hardcore mate, I could not even think about it, after smelling it,


its honestly no worse than drinking cee, my friend described the cissus taste as "the taste of death"


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## invisiblekid

I can live with a taste along the lines of CEE.

Slightly off topic - how is the dog doing Hacks?


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## Nytol

Truewarrior1 said:


> its honestly no worse than drinking cee, my friend described the cissus taste as "the taste of death"


I can only drink CEE mixed with ASDA pink grapefruit squash, but at least it does not have the nasty smell to it.

I'll trust your friends judgement, as I wont be trying it, lol.


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## fits

please kep us update hack, sounds an interesting spplement


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## Nytol

Feeling less pain after only 3 days.

A week ago, walking up and down stairs was painful, no I dont notice it.


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## hackskii

4 days on and I think I have less pain too.


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## hackskii

invisiblekid said:


> Slightly off topic - how is the dog doing Hacks?


She is running in the back yard and she is doing way better.

But, i hate it when she runs as I hear a popping noise from her hip.

Thats not good:axe:

She will eventually wear out that joint and calcium will take over and she eventually wont be able to walk.

But she is doing pretty damn good, i have her on tons of stuff and she is doin good.

Thanks for askin mate.

The thought of my dog right now just made me smile.


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## fits

so hows it going now guys?


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## Nytol

I am liking it a lot, there is less pain in my knees for sure, getting better by the day.

I just hope it continues.


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## hackskii

I actually think better but it will take weeks or even months to see the benefits.

Probably the anelgesic effects but hey, my knees are feeling better.

I also think I am going to up my fish oils too.

Any of you guys read that they tend to increase testicular size?


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## Nytol

hackskii said:


> Any of you guys read that they tend to increase testicular size?


No; not read that.

Is that on or off cycle? Any reason behind this?

I got my Krill oil today, smells really bad, like Fish food, but supposd to be great stuff.

http://www.mercola.com/products/krill_oil.htm


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## hackskii

Nytol said:


> No; not read that.
> 
> Is that on or off cycle? Any reason behind this?
> 
> I got my Krill oil today, smells really bad, like Fish food, but supposd to be great stuff.
> 
> http://www.mercola.com/products/krill_oil.htm


I read it but cant find the article now.

I figured if this happened to be the case maybe it might be a good idea to run either along my regular PCT or in back of it.


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## Nytol

hackskii said:


> I figured if this happened to be the case maybe it might be a good idea to run either along my regular PCT or in back of it.


Certainly cant hurt, but if it works, I will stay on it full time as a prevention to injury.


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## SD

Great thread guys,

Be very interested to see if this stuff works in promoting healing of the tendon/ligament injuries or whether it is just giving you pain relief or reduced inflammation, perhaps both!I guess we will know if you stop taking it and the symptoms return.

I have two sore subscapularis insertions from deep benching years back (and canoeing!) and a sore MCL and patella tendon on my right knee after tearing my ACL 3 years ago in a TKD competition. I am pretty much a walking injury which is why I took a break :laugh:

Are you sure that your improvement isn't down to the normal cycle of healing? Daily improvement isn't unheard of but if you have had it a long time with no change then I guess these results so far are quite exciting :bounce:

Good luck with the cissus, would get some but just spent £150 at bulk powders on other 'essentials' so couldn't justify the Cissus just yet.

SD


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## hackskii

Im still hammering them down.

I am a walking injury too but I bet my age might have something to do with it.

I am going to go ligher and get more range with a better stretch while things heal up.


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## SD

hackskii said:


> Im still hammering them down.
> 
> I am a walking injury too but I bet my age might have something to do with it.
> 
> I am going to go ligher and get more range with a better stretch while things heal up.


Your gonna stretch a tendon under load to heal it??? mg: SnaaaaaaaaP!!

Never mind, I am sure Winger will help you on and off the toilet old fella, such is brotherly love :gun:

:biggrin:

SD


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## hackskii

SportDr said:


> Your gonna stretch a tendon under load to heal it??? mg: SnaaaaaaaaP!!
> 
> Never mind, I am sure Winger will help you on and off the toilet old fella, such is brotherly love :gun:
> 
> :biggrin:
> 
> SD


I find when I stretch at home using rubber bands (heavy duty ones) I get like grissle feeling like subtle popping in the neck and stuff, this kind of helps me to get everything relaxed and put back where it is supposed to be.

The grinding albos and shoulder i think is due to overtraining and going too heavy for too long.

Last week I went to dumbells for chest and got very sore and had less grinding on my elbos, Im sure this will be beneficial as I am using diffrent angles and still sore using lower weight so this should help with the elbos.

Today is chest day so I will see how it goes today.

My injury to the shoulder came from a muscle imballance, I was doing too much pushing and not enough pulling.

Now I always do more pulling and kind of less pushing.

Its only taken like 3 years to heal:eek:

On my brother helping me on and off the toilet. I got that one all figured out.

I will just wear adult diapers so I never have to go to the toilet again, you just go in the diaper:eek: mg:


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## SD

Lol Hacks, you mean they haven't catheterised you at the home yet?

:tongue10:

SD


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## hackskii

SportDr said:


> Lol Hacks, you mean they haven't catheterised you at the home yet?
> 
> :tongue10:
> 
> SD


Hey that is a good idea then I can have all the beer I want and let it go into some 5 gallon bucket:eek:


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## Nytol

My pain relief from the Cissus seems to have hit a plateau, it has only been about 3 weeks, taking 3-6g per day, usually nearer 6.

Just wondering if anyone has found the same?


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## fits

Nytol said:


> My pain relief from the Cissus seems to have hit a plateau, it has only been about 3 weeks, taking 3-6g per day, usually nearer 6.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has found the same?


 OSC had the same result...but alot sooner..i think it was days......


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## hackskii

Nytol said:


> My pain relief from the Cissus seems to have hit a plateau, it has only been about 3 weeks, taking 3-6g per day, usually nearer 6.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has found the same?


Might want to up the fish oils, I notice when I drink more water and take in more fish oils I get less inflammation.


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## Nytol

The pain has not gotten any worse, and is still much better, but I was feeling better by the day, and now it seems to have leveled off a bit.

I am taking 2 krill oil per day, which are supposed to be better anti i's than fish oil.


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## SD

Have there been any improvements with the Cissus guys? Did the results plateau or continue? Is it just a pain killer/anti inflammation or do you think it is helping healing rate at all?

I appreciate you are taking other supplements too but any progress update would help.

Thanks

SD


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## Nytol

SportDr said:


> Have there been any improvements with the Cissus guys? Did the results plateau or continue? Is it just a pain killer/anti inflammation or do you think it is helping healing rate at all?
> 
> I appreciate you are taking other supplements too but any progress update would help.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> SD


Well I ran out for about 3 weeks due to being busy and lazy, and the pain in my knees did not return, so there has been some healing for sure.

I am back on it now, as I have had many tendon issues over the years, so shall take it as a prevention if nothing else, but I am sure there is plenty of healing left for my tendons to do.

Overal, I rate it highly, without a doubt the best thing for my particular type of joint pain, I have used, that includes GH and deca, (niether did anything).


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## SD

Nytol said:


> Well I ran out for about 3 weeks due to being busy and lazy, and the pain in my knees did not return, so there has been some healing for sure.
> 
> I am back on it now, as I have had many tendon issues over the years, so shall take it as a prevention if nothing else, but I am sure there is plenty of healing left for my tendons to do.
> 
> Overal, I rate it highly, without a doubt the best thing for my particular type of joint pain, I have used, that includes GH and deca, (niether did anything).


Thanks for the update, I think it is definately worth a try now.

Regards

SD


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## hackskii

I feel better too but I honestly think I was training too often and making things worse.

Paul Booth has been working with me to take longer for recovery and now instead of working out 5-6 days a week I have a day off every day after I train. I hit each bodypart once every 9 days.

This has benefitted me more than anything actually.

I have so much cissus, but capping it is a pain in the ass so I keep forgetting to do it. I also bought 1,000 "00" caps, I just need to take the time and cap.


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## SD

Get capping you pussy!

:tongue10:

SD


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## Karl(Reflex)

I have used cissus a few times and whilst i have noticed improvements when taking it, as soon as i stopped the pain was back.

I ran at pretty high dose (i think 12 caps ED) and didnt notice any anabolic affects or the supposed 'cissus pump'.

Naturally its going to work better for some injuries than others and the severity of the injury is a key factor.

Its pretty cheap so its not a huge dent in the wallet and some people have got on very well with it.

IMO i would give it 5 to 6/10.


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## hackskii

I think GH would be one of the better things for injuries.


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## Nytol

hackskii said:


> I think GH would be one of the better things for injuries.


Did nothing for mine


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## hackskii

Nytol said:


> Did nothing for mine


Well, depending on the injury it could take a rather long time.

I honestly think the longer GH cycles are better using less.

But that is just me.


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## Nytol

Well I'm looking at about the next 6 months on 5iu EOD, so we shall see 

I dont want to jinx myself, but all my injuries are good at the moment, even my tricep tendon is not inflammed after doing some overhead EZ extentions yesterday, (my favourite tricep exercise  )

Cissuss is king


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## boxer2quick

This stuff sounds wicked,what do you lot mean when you talk about capping?and does anyone know if I can buy this cissus stuff in a high street shop,I aint got a credit card to buy over the net or phone.I cut those up last year,


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## Nytol

I have not seen it in a shop, but I have not really looked, the only problem with pre capped Cissus, is it seems to be very expensive, even off the net.


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## boxer2quick

Ok,nytol,Thanks mate.Im really looking forward to trying cissus I have got quite a few injurys and they are doing my head in.Does this stuff taste that bad that you have to cap it up yourself to be able to swallow it then?


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## hackskii

The powder is dirt cheap compared to the caps.

I still havnt capped it yet, I got 2.2 lbs (1 kilo) of that in powder form.


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## Truewarrior1

but it does taste like a hooker shat in ure mouth tbh hacks.


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## hackskii

Well, the powder left on the caps is not good.

But for the price nothing is cheaper (bulk powder).


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## scammellman

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330339911972&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_5514wt_905


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## BBWarehouse

For those interested in caps, our new cissus has just arrived in - Cissus


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## kev1

pick mine up tomorrow!! hope it works!!!!


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## Rekless

Just got the Mega Cissus (50%) from MyProtein

Going to dose it as follows

Heavy lifting day (e.g. legs) 4x

Dose 1 - Pre breakfast

Dose 2

Dose 3

Dose 4 - with pre-WO stack.

Light lifting day

Dose 1 - Pre breakfast

Dose 2

Dose 3 - with pre-WO stack.

Non lifting day

Dose 1 - Pre breakfast

Dose 2 - Evening (but not just before bed).


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## cikko

Any further updates in this rather old thread?

I've just been reading about cissus for joint repair. It's too much pain to do a squat loaded over 30kg & the rehab 'thanx' I get is 2 days of grinding crunching and limping if i try to up the ante!

Fix-it in a pill? I hope so.

Updates would be great  :


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## jw390898

cikko said:


> Any further updates in this rather old thread?
> 
> I've just been reading about cissus for joint repair. It's too much pain to do a squat loaded over 30kg & the rehab 'thanx' I get is 2 days of grinding crunching and limping if i try to up the ante!
> 
> Fix-it in a pill? I hope so.
> 
> Updates would be great  :


Obviously biased but I never found cissus or glocamine etc helped me with my tennis elbow but when signing up as a rep the first order I made I included our Skeletal Balm product and it is magic! 3 months I had the pain and ended up with forearm mscule problems from compensating lifting anything etc after 2 weeks of use I never got a twinge or have done since.


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## cikko

THanks for that. I've done a quick search and I'm unsure a topical approach... the blurb certainly says it'll get deep into the joint.... I don't see how (not being rude)....

I currently take con/gluc/msm in fairly high doses and fish oil(s) - I don't know if they make any difference - but feel that something being pushed around my bloodstream must have more effect internally than a topical cream?

dunno


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## jw390898

cikko said:


> THanks for that. I've done a quick search and I'm unsure a topical approach... the blurb certainly says it'll get deep into the joint.... I don't see how (not being rude)....
> 
> I currently take con/gluc/msm in fairly high doses and fish oil(s) - I don't know if they make any difference - but feel that something being pushed around my bloodstream must have more effect internally than a topical cream?
> 
> dunno


Cannot offer guarantees as the nature of injuries are they can be so individual. When I used it myself I expected it to only help with the forearm muscle strain which developed as a result of lifting things up differently to compensate the elbow pain - but deicded being the product said 'skeletal' I would squeeze a decent blob and rub it in to the elbow then up and round into the forearm, did it 2-3x a day and always before and after training.

My father in law a scaffolder is always picking up different strains and pains in joints and muscles but had a wrist pain that he could not shake so I sent him away on the saturday morning with the remaining half a bottle I had (after curing my elbow I ordered so had and still have a back up bottle) and he felt improvements before monday.

Obviously everything is an expense but if what you are taking is not working and you get to the end of the run it might just do the trick - I am convinced at the least it will ease it.

Fish oils are good for lubricating the joints and maintaining their health as such but I do not believe they will have any sort of healing properties for an existing problem - they are more preventative.


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