# Do You Believe In God?



## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

*Do You Believe In God?*​
Yes12139.93%No17557.76%You Lucky Sod Give Me Summit!72.31%


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

i was completely out of my tiny little mind when i wrote this.


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## Stone (Jul 25, 2005)

I believe in God as a presence as a spiritual power. I also believe in God as a whole rather than something/one.


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

again..hey true! come back to reality!


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## ianp (Aug 13, 2007)

a simple no is the answer


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## Glyneth (Sep 14, 2007)

No


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

After seeing all the pain and suffering my ex has to go through, no I don't.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I don't believe in god, but I believe that others have the right to believe what they like so long as it doesn't end in others getting hurt..


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Well can I have a copy of that music and uurrmmm what table did you play on??? ££££

Dont believe in christian god, jewish god, muslim god any other religous nutt house God. Reason being is they all say they right, the others are wrong and dam all those nonbelievers to hell. There is something out there but it's not what we have been taught all our lives. Religon is a crutch, it's something to blame things on, something to turn to when feeling down, something to have faith in instead of having true faith in yourself.

To believe god is loving and and cares for all of us and ignore the young helpless kids in Africa who grow up being raped throughout their lives without God helping them is ignorant. The numerous honest caring famlies washed out in the Sunami. The innocent famlies killed everyday in Iraq at the Hands of the Americans or the Palastinies at the hands of the Jews. Where is god when those people need him most...

To often when something good happens we say "It's god's will"

But when something bad happens we say "He works in mysterious ways"

I dont know if we will ever have the true answer.

P.s. ( I answered no...  )


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

TaintedSoul said:


> Well can I have a copy of that music and uurrmmm what table did you play on??? ££££
> 
> Dont believe in christian god, jewish god, muslim god any other religous nutt house God. Reason being is they all say they right, the others are wrong and dam all those nonbelievers to hell. There is something out there but it's not what we have been taught all our lives. *Religon is a crutch, it's something to blame things on, something to turn to when feeling down, something to have faith in instead of having true faith in yourself. *
> 
> ...


Bingo Tainted, thats my belief.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I have some religious friends, who I love to anger by talking directly to God as if he were a mate, and basically taking the **** or blaming him when I loose on halo 3. So funny to see my mates get really ****y about it.

I'm just like "Come on then You C**t God, if you're the big man do something".

Hehe religion is for the weak imo.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I do believe in the afterlife whether it be heaven or here on earth in another dimension, i have seen so much freaky **** in my life it would be virtually impossible not to believe in it!!


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

yes but i could go to church more!


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

No,i dont believe in God and im not religious,however,if some people feel the need to have beliefs and faiths,in order to lead a more productive life,then it can only be a good thing.

The problems arise when people use religion as an excuse to vent their extremist beliefs and actions.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

I dont believe in god as such, but i believe that something connects us all in someway, poss spiritual or maybe its just the fact that we only utilise something like 20% of our brains and they capable of so much more than we realise, so it there could be some sort of telepathic connection there.

TBH, I know it sounds funny but Star Wars and the force type thing could maybe not be to far from the truth in not such an exaggerated way IMO.

Who knows, but i think its def got something to do with ourselves and our minds as opposed to some "spiritual being"


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

I think everyone is entiteld to something to believe in. I'm sure one could say gym is for alot of us what religion is for others. Heck worship a rock if it get's you by find your crutch and go with it.

But I dont think god, the son and the holy spook is it!


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

so when you die , thats it ????


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Kezz said:


> so when you die , thats it ????


I dont believe that at all, I dont believe that when you die thats it.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

so what do you think then??


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Are we human beings having a spiritual experience.....

Or are we spiritual beings having a human experience.

meaning perhaps this is just a phase of a greater life we not aware of?


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I was raised as a catholic although I dont go to church anymore.

I dont know if I believe in God as this would promote fate and negate self determination which I think as humans we make our own fate through the choices we make in life.

I simply cant understand how people can go to war over the belief in a fairy/spirit/god.

Its OK to follow the teachings of religion i.e. leading a moral life, not committing crimes, self actualisation as these are central to probably every religion in some way.

Religion has for years been used by the mentally agile to corrupt the mentally weak for tangable gains. The problem with religious teachings is that all to often they can be misinterpreted (intentionally or not) to promote crimes against another man.

I have a code/belief that I follow and it goes like this

1. Dont harm others unless they try to harm you.

2. Always respect others unless they show you no respect.

3. Improve yourself through knowledge and experience to be a better person

thats not the whole lot but I bet if you picked up any religious text you would see something similar as a core belief.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

I believe in science, not King James' mistranslated version of a book.


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## simeon69 (Nov 15, 2007)

i belive in god etc and i reackon 99.9% of us have done even for a brief moment if someones ill? lotto numbers england rugby world cup final lol or you just want a bit of luck you proberly have said a little "please god help me" or "help them" etc

wether its happened for you or not proberly would determine if you belive or not!


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TaintedSoul said:


> Are we human beings having a spiritual experience.....
> 
> Or are we spiritual beings having a human experience.
> 
> meaning perhaps this is just a phase of a greater life we not aware of?


Good call


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Tinytom said:


> I was raised as a catholic although I dont go to church anymore.
> 
> I dont know if I believe in God as this would promote fate and negate self determination which I think as humans we make our own fate through the choices we make in life.
> 
> ...


Very good post. Agree


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I use the code of druss the legend:

"Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal.

These things are for lesser men.

Protect the weak against the evil strong.

And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil.

Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender.

It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found."

---The "Iron Code" of Druss


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Biggest lie ever told .

No god, no after life, no ghosts.

I believe there was a man called jesus, as this is historical fact. But he wasnt divine, he was merely another man, who inspired people.


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## genan (Jul 19, 2007)

Truewarrior1 said:


> i do now. lately ive been believin in him more and more, and you may say this is just luck but tonight i started out with 128 pounds at midnight and im now calling it quits with 756, this is all from roulette,i played gospel music n basically prayed to god saying i know he doesnt believe in gambling but to please give me this and ill share. i also did i a good deed today by asking my dad if my mate from bristol (im in london) who keeps gettin beat up by her uncle if she could stay here and he said yes, so im gnna take her out on a shoppin spree with some of the money, go to amsterdam with some, some to parents, n buy presents for friends, who wants one? at one point i was at 500, i changed the tune got down to 100 pounds then changed it back and back up to 756 called it quits uninstalled n done! 3 days n its in the bank  took me 2 hours 30 mins total to make that.


 mg: are you serious? you won some money and now you believe in God? surely, this must be a joke. god is just one of those creatures in peoples mind that we created to explain the unexplainable. only thing is, we now know much more about the universe than the people 2000 years ago. living your life following a set of rules made by those people is not something an intelligent, thinking being in the XXI. century should do imo. be nice to people not because you want to go to heaven but because thats your moral code. and when you face some questions in your life no one can answer, dont turn to religion because they fu*n dont know it either. its something very human that we have to KNOW the answer to EVERYTHING. and if we dont have the answer we INVENT one. thats religion. nothing but a human invention. :amen:


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

no,ive believed in god before but more recently in the past week stronger.ive never seen one of my threads blow up so fast.


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

I think the aliens made us plain and simple!


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## Patch (May 30, 2007)

offo said:


> I think the aliens made us plain and simple!


it would certainly explain you and Daps


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

Have you heard of a bloke called Charles Darwin and a book he wrote in 1859 called Origin of the Species? It is a devasting rebuttal of the God myth.

Do yourself a favour instead of engaging in internet banter and do a bit of background reading.

Try reading several books by Richard Dawkins, such as "The Selfish Gene" or "The Blind Watchmaker" and finally "The God Dellusion".

You will find all three comprehensively deal with this subject.

Unfortunately no religion has respected the rights of non believers throughout the ages and doesn't now. In a recent poll in America, people were asked who was less likely to become a President of the USA, a homosexual, a black person or an Athiest, and it was the Atheist who was considered the least likely to win an election. I could go on and on, 9/11, Palestine, Iraq, Bosnia, Northern Ireland, etc, etc


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Yes undoubtedly i do believe in god i also believe he works in mysterious ways!

I did lose my faith some time back and i was resentful to him for personal reasons but now i know that he does exist!

I think its funny how many people actually don't believe in him but i guess its each to their own, i only hope that they do believe in something no matter what it is as without belief there is no hope!

I am not one of these preacher type people and i don't believe that you have to go to church for god i believe that the best church is within yourself but i guess thats just me!

One thing i don't personally like again its just my personal opinion is the sorts of religion who come knocking at the door as if you want to believe then you will and same as if you want to go to church you will find one!


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Chris4Pez said:


> I think its funny how many people actually don't believe in him but i guess its each to their own, i only hope that they do believe in something no matter what it is as without belief there is no hope!


You don't have to believe in a flying spaghetti monster to not be a c*nt to people mate. Unless you are just a weak minded mouth-breather (not saying YOU - just you as in people).


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

threads like this can go on for ever and get nowhere, now wait until your dying breath and then say you dont believe in the afterlife!!!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Kezz, this "thread" has been going on since the dawn of time, if you know what I mean 

People will never, ever agree on this one. Doesn't mean it's not interesting though


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

What created the existance before everything happened?

Dont say the big bang! What happend before the big bang? Everything has to start from somewhere.

So there must be a God


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Ollie, stuff like that boils my head dude.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2007)

My family is Budist orintated personally i am not sure but i am certaintly not christian.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Ollie B said:


> What created the existance before everything happened?
> 
> Dont say the big bang! What happend before the big bang? Everything has to start from somewhere.
> 
> So there must be a God


You're a muslim? I ask because a good buddy and I always agrue about this and this is one of his main arguments - that and evolution not being scientifically proven. My rebuttal is that science is not complete, our scientific understanding of the universe is incomplete - that doesn't mean you just fill in the blanks and say "God did it". To me that's simply copping out - like when stupid people don't understand something they say it's magic.


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

Ollie B said:


> What created the existance before everything happened?
> 
> Dont say the big bang! What happend before the big bang? Everything has to start from somewhere.
> 
> So there must be a God


Is that a p1ss take?


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

This thread is gonna be a long one 

Or will end up getting locked because it goes tits up.

Bottom line is believe what you want.

Just dont knock on my fecking door trying to convert me on my doorstep, man that ****'s me off


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yes I do believe.

Well, how about a couple of things to ponder:

Out of all the speces of birds, fish, animals, etc, why just woman and man?

If you look at the odd's here why not 10, or 50 diffrent speces of human?

I think this is by design.

Why is the earth a certain distance from the sun?

I mean if it was farther away we would die and probably freeze, if it was closer we would burn up.

Why is it tilted on its axis?

If it wasnt there would be no seasons, due to the polar caps and such this is necessary for survival.

Or what about our atmosphere which acts like the perfect filter so we can go out in the sun.

Or why is there water?

Just so happens to need that one for survival.

Or what about fire?

Need that one for survival too.

What about air?

Need that one too, and why is it at the perfect mixture to sustain life.

What about gravity?

If there was too much we would be smashed, not enough and we could float away.

Why is there perfect gravity to sustain life?

The more obvious one was the ratio of the gravitational force constant to the electromagnetic force constant. It cannot differ from its current value by any more than one part in 10^40 (one part in ten thousand trillion trillion trillion) without eliminating the possibility for life.

Look at the heart for example, it can beat for 100 years via some mysterious source of energy.

Or the brain being just a 3 pound piece of tissue, it can store 100 years of memories.

Why do atheists demand the believers to prove the existance of god?

Why do atheists only point to science and logic as it suits their beliefs?

Why do Atheists fight so hard against someone they believe to be non-existant? I mean, it is like they are looking for someone to answer the question they already know deep down inside.

What about the laws of entropy?

*Deffinition*

en·tro·py (ntr-p) KEY

NOUN:

pl. en·tro·pies

Symbol S For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.

A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.

A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.

The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.

Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.

In the model of evolution enrophy crushes that, because it is going from disorder to order and the laws of enrophy are clearly in opposition here.

Just like you clean your garage, it does not go from dirty to clean but clean to dirty.

The laws of entropy are absolute.

Do you really think of all the diffrent things that go on in the body happened by evolution?

Which by the way evolution by deffinition is religion as it believes in evolution as putting faith in accepting it.

Yah, there is a God.

i just dont see randomness.


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

megatron said:


> You're a muslim? I ask because a good buddy and I always agrue about this and this is one of his main arguments - that and evolution not being scientifically proven. My rebuttal is that science is not complete, our scientific understanding of the universe is incomplete - that doesn't mean you just fill in the blanks and say "God did it". To me that's simply copping out - like when stupid people don't understand something they say it's magic.


So your calling me stupid. Thanks mate, all i did was voice my opinion and got flammed for it. 

Im a christian not a muslim


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

GReat post!!!


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

Porky Pie said:


> Is that a p1ss take?


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Yes I do believe.
> 
> Well, how about a couple of things to ponder:
> 
> ...


Sorry Scot, but nothing you said there is any real reason for ME to start thinking God exists.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Ollie B said:


> So your calling me stupid. Thanks mate, all i did was voice my opinion and got flammed for it.
> 
> Im a christian not a muslim


No, read what I wrote mate, never called you stupid.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Ollie B said:


> What created the existance before everything happened?
> 
> Dont say the big bang! What happend before the big bang? Everything has to start from somewhere.
> 
> So there must be a God


Exactly.... everything has to start from somewhere.......

........ so who created God?

That's where the christians always bail out and say "Have faith... Jesus loves you!!"


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

Where to start....

Man is just another species, there's no revelation there. We've evolved, cats and dogs and rats have evolved. Yes, we're capable of sophisticated thoughts, but then so are primates and dolphins.

The Earth is the distance from the Sun because it is. If it was any different life here wouldn't happen, its just a happy coincidence for you and me that it is. There is a high likelyhood that there are many planets that also have conditions for life, another coincidence. Does this prove the existence of a supernatural creator? No.

Yes the human body is fantastic - it has evolved to be that way. No creator required. Just evolution. The more you deny this, the more a crank you sound to any intelligent person.

I don't demand "proof", however on the evidence there is I see there is a significantly higher chance that there isn't a God than there is. There is no proof for or against the proverbial "spaghetti monster" to use Bertrand Russell's analogy but we can be fairly sure that one doesn't exist.

What other than science and logic do you want me to rely on? And if there was definate scientific data to show the existence of God, I bet you wouldn't hesitate to use it, would you. (In fact there have been numerous attempts to do so that have always failed)

As an Aethiest I am not fighting you for your beliefs, you can beleive in anything as long as it doesn't harm me. But as I have already pointed out religion is an evil that does cause massive harm in this world and the sooner we learn to live without it the better.


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

Sorry guys but Im not going to post anymore on this thread. I can see this is gonna carry on and on.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Ollie B said:


> Sorry guys but Im not going to post anymore on this thread. I can see this is gonna carry on and on.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

What always tickles me is a lot of people dont turn religious until something trumatic happens to them.

They loose there partner or kids tragically or they are diagnosed with a terminal diesease and all the sudden they believe in god!! Its very sad for there loss/ circumstances , but that dont make god real !!

I think humans need to believe that there is some supreme being looking out for them, its a kinda weakness. That there is life after death etc.

What i dont get is humans think they are so bloody important, why dont sheep and cows and dogs goto heaven ?? Why dont they have spirits? Why dont they have an after life?? We are after all animals too!!!!

If there was a god, if he had any sense he would hate us!!! We kill each other for no reason, or over greed for somebodys land. Why wouldnt he choose to look after another more gentle species that arent as bad as man.

Man is the plague of this world, we will eventually totally fook it up i believe and probably wipe ourselve out in the process. Does that matter ??? ......... NO!!!!

In the big picture, looking at the universe man is nothing! If we all died out it would make absolutely no difference to anything, life would just go on!!!


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Bulldozer said:


> What always tickles me is a lot of people dont turn religious until something trumatic happens to them.
> 
> They loose there partner or kids tragically or they are diagnosed with a terminal diesease and all the sudden they believe in god!! Its very sad for there loss/ circumstances , but that dont make god real !!
> 
> ...


Well spoken old chap...

Dying for the day a alien race can be proved.. the religous people will have to rethink it all over again! Cause in the begining there adam and eve and some ugly looking klingon!!!


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Porky Pie said:


> Where to start....
> 
> Man is just another species, there's no revelation there. We've evolved, cats and dogs and rats have evolved. Yes, we're capable of sophisticated thoughts, but then so are primates and dolphins.
> 
> ...


That is an awesome post mate!!!

That point is especially good!! I see religion as evil !! Look how many men , woman and children have died throughout history for its cause, and continue to die for it!!

Yet i dont know of any religion that says its ok to kill, strange that!! Talk about being a hypocrit


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

But as I have already pointed out religion is an evil that does cause massive harm in this world and the sooner we learn to live without it the better.

just like we must learn to live without

Drugs

Muggings

rapists

racism

peados

burglars

the list goes on and on, there is no evidence whatsoever to prove that the afterlife doesnt exist, none whatsoever, although there is plenty to prove it does but its up to you whether you believe it or not, religion does far more good in the world than bad and just because some old geezer from over 100 years ago says there is no god it doesnt mean there isnt...................


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## Lord Lucan (Feb 22, 2006)

i belive in god however all religious texts have been passed through that many hands over 1000's of years that it's hard to say that whats left is true or if it is the message of some 2000 year old extremist that wanted people to follow what he/she said and also no1 would ever know what the origional people in the holy books wanted to say as bits can and will have been taken out, there could be a comandment that said thy shall covet thy neighbours wife but no1 will ever know what the "truth" is until we die thats why they are all called FAITH's aswell as religion as you need to trust that there is something if you want to meet somethin,

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he did not exist?? how can we prove this unless we can see god to prove that ther is a devil? how do we know that islam, judiaism, christianity and hinduism are not just the workings of derranged old fasioned hitler/stalin types who wanted everything to follow there paths?


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## Lord Lucan (Feb 22, 2006)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

thats enough from me ranting on anyway


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Kezz said:


> religion does far more good in the world than bad


Surely you cant believe that mate?

Fair enough if you wanna believe in god, but that statement is obsurd!

Half the wars through history have been over religion, millions upon millions have died. Look at WW2 , the jews for a start


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

imo "God" was just the first person who learned to write and he wrote a book about how awesome he was lol.


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## Lord Lucan (Feb 22, 2006)

Bulldozer said:


> Surely you cant believe that mate?
> 
> Fair enough if you wanna believe in god, but that statement is obsurd!
> 
> Half the wars through history have been about religion, millions upon millions have died. Look at WW2 , the jews for a start


as nelly said "more people have died in the name of the lord than in any natural disaster disease or gang war"- very good point i think


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> there is no evidence whatsoever to prove that the afterlife doesnt exist, none whatsoever, although there is plenty to prove it does


Such as? I don't really think a peice of text is proof, I can write down that i'm 300lbs 5% bf, that doesn't make it true (damn it).


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

the killing of the jews had nothing to do with religion, it was more to do with how powerful they were businesswise etc, also ethnic cleansing had nothing to do with religion either


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> Such as? I don't really think a peice of text is proof, I can write down that i'm 300lbs 5% bf, that doesn't make it true (damn it).


Ive never been to Australia but i'm sure it exists


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

So, you suggest evolution, I do believe in evolution among speces and evolving, but there is no proof that man was made from some cosmic goo.

Evolution has holes all over it.

Your statement:



Porky Pie said:


> Yes the human body is fantastic - it has evolved to be that way. No creator required. Just evolution. The more you deny this, the more a crank you sound to any intelligent person.


You are putting your faith in evolution, this is what you said. But science can not prove that I came from some cosmic goo and evolved to what I am.

Insulting me wont help your arguement.

I am no dummy here, this was supposed to be some sort of intillegent thoughts or posts.

Insulting me by calling me a crank is childish.

I could care less what anyone believes.

Who said God had to be proven?

In fact the very essence is about faith, that is something you cant see, prove, touch, small, feel, that is why it is called faith.

Science is funny, it evolves too, one day it is one thing and another day it is another thing.

The earth was thought to be flat, till Columbus sailed the ocean blue, they were gonna lock him up, but now we know it is not flat.

You may not know the answers in your life time, that is ok, who gives a fcuk anyway?

If anyone could understand God, or explain his existance then he would not be man.

Look at it like a bet.

You bet there is a god, when you die you go to heaven.

You bet there is no god, when you die you dont go to heaven.

Every culture in existance has had some form of seeking something that was divine.

I think this is a hard wired thing within man.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Kezz said:


> the killing of the jews had nothing to do with religion, it was more to do with how powerful they were businesswise etc, also ethnic cleansing had nothing to do with religion either


Nothing to do with religion ??? Come on bud. I aint having a go at you mate, and im not trying to rock your faith. But get real.

Of course religion played a part. As it has in thousands of wars!!


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Simple Yes. He does not have a beard, he never walked the earth so to speak. He is not one person he his part of everyone. Only those who need him can see, perhaps not see but feel, him.

I found him when I needed him, when my dad left, when my gran died, when I had to stop my mum commiting suicide, when my brother had been beaten senseless, when I needed to stop drugs, when I needed to go back to college......there is always choice in your head, I think that god is one of the choices in there too...

I could talk for hours on the subject and I aint no bible basher, I only go to church for wedding etc....but if god helps people get through tough/happy/sad times then I'm all for him/her....and not just our god any god.

Great post by tainted on the first page BTW


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Bulldozer said:


> Nothing to do with religion ??? Come on bud. I aint having a go at you mate, and im not trying to rock your faith. But get real.
> 
> Of course religion played a part. As it has in thousands of wars!!


yes i know what you mean, but there are more to the wars than just reigion, the vikings invaded everywhere for? the romans? ghengis kahn? boer war? none of those were to do with religion, although there are plenty that have but in all honesty if there were no religion i recon the wars , invasions would still happen


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hell the chineese used to have wars over gensing.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> Ive never been to Australia but i'm sure it exists


That's not an answer. Iv'e never flown by flapping my arms but i'm sure I can.



> In fact the very essence is about faith, that is something you cant see, prove, touch, small, feel, that is why it is called faith.


How convenient that is man, that's part of my problem with religion, faith for it's own sake.

I could say that I happen to believe that punching kids in the face is my path to enlightenment.


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

I believe that, as a species, religion is the psychological cancer of our existence.

I do however respect the right of others to hold their own beliefs.



L


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

imo defo no god, spirits, fairies ect

what youve got to understand is that life evolved/adapted to its surroundings. thats why it all seems to fit so perfectly.

people also have difficulty in comprehending the timescale of evolution ect, its incomprehensible because we are never exposed to it.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

I just feel its something for some ppl to grasp hold of and give them something to believe in at certain points of their lives.

Sometimes having something to look forward to or something to relate to can make a big difference, I don't think anything less of ppl who believe in a god but as long as they don't force their views on me y'know.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Five-O said:


> I just feel its something for some ppl to grasp hold of and give them something to believe in at certain points of their lives.
> 
> Sometimes having something to look forward to or something to relate to can make a big difference, I don't think anything less of ppl who believe in a god but as long as they don't force their views on me y'know.


what like people that dont believe force their views on you!! LOL, these debates are ace and go on for ever and ever amen :bounce:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok just throwing it out there, BUT there are so many different religions in the world and lots of them believe in one or many or totally different gods or some dont believe in a god at all.

They will all argue their case till they are blue in the face, but all of the fcukers cant be right lol.

So what does that tell you?


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

some people cant see any further than whats in front of their own two eyes


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

I predict 100 page long thread


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Aye bully, providing it doesnt turn into a flame war like most threads on religion do.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

nah it wont, we are all mates here!! i like a good old debate even though this one can never be resolved he he


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Nope lol There is no evidence to support either side really so it will always be an inconclusive argument, and people will go on believing whatever they wish.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

I would like to hear one of the "free masons" on here views on religion etc etc, because i have a sneaky feeling that they are privvy to some information that will make a lot of people look very very silly one day


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

jw007 said:


> I would like to hear one of the "free masons" on here views on religion etc etc, because i have a sneaky feeling that they are privvy to some information that will make a lot of people look very very silly one day


To be a freemason you have to have a belief in a higher power or God of some sort, do you not?


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

ther cant really be a god,

who made him?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Cap said:


> To be a freemason you have to have a belief in a higher power or God of some sort, do you not?


Dont know, thats why i asked


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

Cap said:


> Nope lol There is no evidence to support either side really


There is a phenomenal amount of evidence to support evolution.



L


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Lorian said:


> There is a phenomenal amount of evidence to support evolution.
> 
> 
> 
> L


Of course, I think what he means is that you can't disprove or prove the existance of god.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Cap said:


> To be a freemason you have to have a belief in a higher power or God of some sort, do you not?


I think you have to believe in a supreme being.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

megatron said:


> Of course, I think what he means is that you can't disprove or prove the existance of god.


bingo


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## sparky (Jul 10, 2007)

A belief in God is just like any other unprovable belief, just like belief in santa claus or the tooth fairy, or even ghosts. None of these necessarily warrant a religious dedication.

i believe religion is man made and therefore is inherently flawed and not worth following...


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## MXMAD (Oct 11, 2007)

I beleive in god.

Probably sounds a bit stupis to those who dont but somthing happend to my dad some years back and i prayed he would be ok.

He was ok and ever since that day i beleive there is somthing there that answerd me.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Kezz said:


> the killing of the jews had nothing to do with religion, it was more to do with how powerful they were businesswise etc, also ethnic cleansing had nothing to do with religion either


Jews were punished for a greater goal... Israel and the balfor declaration! Hitler wanted a solution for the Jews.. not an extermination but a homeland other than Germany as they were becoming a nuisance. Zionist wanted Israel and hence the Holocaust which we all fear to say anything against was born. Your average Jew back then paid for the sins of those meddling in politics and sinister plan of the Zionist. These days it passed off as anti-semitism meaning agaist Jews/Judiasm.

Yet Lenin and Trotsky the Russian Jews were responsible for killing more than 100million christians. We dont hear about that incident... That was either religous or ethnic cleansin.

In Africa real ethnic cleansing was Hutu tribs against the Tusi. This was no religous slaughter but purely what blood you were born from. True ethnic cleansing. no religion there where almost 1million people died.

Before getting sidetrack onto some very hot topics Kezz and I touched on I have to ask..... Where was god in either of those? All the little kids who never had a childhood? Oh he was working in misterious ways?

I think before you start defending god you have to start looking at what you are believing in and serving. He allowed the above atrocities to take place. He ordered Abraham to go and slaughter his son Isaac as proof of love and devotion for God? In this day an age you go to jail for planing stuff like that? Who in their right mind would ask any man to prove his devotion by sacrificing his own son. |That's pretty sick if you ask me?

And let's not get onto the views of woman in the old testament? Surprised any woman are religous?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

A little humour on the topic at hand to lighten things up a little....





================================================
​
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her Radio show. On her radio show recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, and then posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as appropriate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend thehomosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male andfemale, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friendof mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned inExodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbours.They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees'of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses.Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden byLev 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?(Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Lorian said:


> There is a phenomenal amount of evidence to support evolution.
> 
> 
> 
> L


It is not conclusive.

On either side.

Again it is about faith.

There is no conclusive evidence that evolution caused me to be here.......zero................

Sure you can summize it, but in the end not conclusive.

Congress can't dictate morality, neither can man.


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

7 pages in 24 hours, not bad true, not bad, i think it's a record, i actually made 1000 in the end last night.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I do believe in God. As to whether I'm a good example of a believer, then no I'm not.

I lost my mother on friday and I really believe she has gone somewhere better than this place.


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

did god say anything about coke? it's jus a plant.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

I believe in the hope that God brings to some when they have nothing left. When a begger on the street is holding a cross or a soldier is wearing one when he dies. Thats when I believe in God - where the belief isn't the existence of God but the belief that God is something that brings hope to those who have none.

I can't stand the general idea of religion as I see it as one of the most successful business in the world - giving believers nothing but mere self spiritual belief. Notice how many times the collection tray in a Sunday mass passes you? No I won't give the religion itself money, but I would put money into the essence of God in other ways - like a donation to charity or something similar.

I am no Buddhist however I believe in Buddha as he was just a normal man with belief in himself. The Buddhist religion fascinates me as it is the only religion in the world where 100% of it's donations go back into the religion itself. Every single cent that is donated to the Buddhist religion goes into building a Buddhist statue or something similar. Worshipping a man who believed in himself and the way of thinking he encouraged others to think is amazing.

But as I said, no I don't believe in God as a spiritual entity or higher power, however I do believe in God when it brings people hope when there is none.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

Kezz said:


> so when you die , thats it ????


To me, death is sleep and never waking up. So in saying that, your brain will still function, you as the being is still there. Its just going to bed for an eternity. In my opinion, that sounds like paradise to be able to sleep forever.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

Chris4Pez said:


> I think its funny how many people actually don't believe in him but i guess its each to their own, *i only hope that they do believe in something no matter what it is as without belief there is no hope!*


You are an exact example of what I just said in my earlier post. I do however 100% disagree with that statement, unless you accept believing in yourself as a belief. Then I will agree.

If you don't believe in some form of divinity but believe in yourself, than there is definitely hope. In fact so much more hope if you believe in yourself rather than a divinity that is so questionable in existence at this day and age. Someone who 100% believes in themselves has a lot more hope than those who don't - whether they believe in a divinity or not - if you don't believe in yourself than you really do not have any hope.

*Apologies for the triple post. Have been reading through the thread and posting thoughts as I have read them.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

hackskii said:


> It is not conclusive.
> 
> On either side.
> 
> ...


Evolution can't be proved 100% but there is alot of evidence to support it, in contrast to the zero evidence to support God. It's simply irrational to fill in the blanks with God.

It just boils down to the kind of scenario where if you don't understand something then God did it, end of. Not really the best way to progress our understanding of the physical universe - when we meet something we can't currently explain, instead of trying to work it out - just blame it on God.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

Yes you are right there lads. You cannot prove something does not exist. However you can prove that something does.

In saying that, people who wish to believe in something that was created back when they thought the world was flat are believing in something fairly blindly. You can prove that something is less likely to exist but you cannot prove something doesn't exist.

It is like saying "aliens exist" then traveling the entire universe and find nothing, then coming back and saying they don't. You can say "they probably don't exist" but you can never rule it out.

Aliens, God, monsters, ghosts, bigfoot - all created by a single person with a theory and no one can prove that it isn't true - as you cannot prove something doesn't exist.


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

robsta9 said:


> I lost my mother on friday and I really believe she has gone somewhere better than this place.


Rob, I'm very, very sorry to hear that my friend. Sincere condolencies.

Chin up, dude. Your a strong guy.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Marc, given the size of the universe the chances of there being life on another planet are very high. It's just that the sheer scale is incomprehensible by our minds.

It's like the whole argument about the first amino acid "somehow" changing into the precursors for live by mutation... Yes it's phenominally unlikely to occur (the old example of monkeys, tipewriters and the encyclopedia britanicca) - however over a large enough scale it becomes likely to happen.

I think statistically there is far more reason to believe aliens exist that a divine creator.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Before getting sidetrack onto some very hot topics Kezz and I touched on I have to ask..... Where was god in either of those? All the little kids who never had a childhood? Oh he was working in misterious ways?

WHo knows, he works in mysterious ways!! how do we know it was not the work of he devil?? when satan was cast out of heaven he was sent to earth with countless thousands of his soldiers, and i have no idea why as it seems to be a pretty snide trick, satans work on earth seems to be in full flow theses days as his sole job would appear to be to destroy us, split up our families, have us turn on each other with wars etc i know people say " where was god when this was happening" etc, but why would it be gods problem?? there can be no growth without resistance


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

If you travelled back in time with a host of gadgets from this time period to the caveman era then the caveman may very well think you are a God because he doesnt understand the technology. Therefore perception of 'god' is simply a viewpoint.

Lets just speculate for a second about stuff we dont understand like for example amino acids mutating to form base proteins and then evolution into life.

Now if you think about what we knwo today about gene therapy and DNA compared to 50 years ago.

Is it not logical to assume that in 200 years we will have even more complex understandings about life.

'God' may very well be a species of advanced knowledge that visited earth at some point and created these changes in evolution through intervention.

You dont know for sure. BUt that doesnt mean that God exists and created the universe or aliens caused the evolution of the human race through gene manipulation or if it was simply the natural development of the biology of the organisms.

I think if belief in God makes you a better person and gives you whatever you need then thats fine and good. However so many people use 'in the name of God' to perpetrate crimes that its a very contensious issue.

I mean logically if God was all powerful then why not just strike down the infedels with a lightning strike or something. Why does he need some idiot with a pack of fertilser strapped to his back to do it for him?

Unless he's very busy of course


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I've had this debate too many times and get too passionate to get involved while I should be working but all I will say is

Yes I do believe in god, not nessacerily in the post-fabricated rules invented by the church many years after in order to manipulate people.

Who were the first people to translate the bible? Now knowing that, what are the odds that they were put under pressure to manipulate certain areas of the text by the powers that be at the time?


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/055277331X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-8933260-5946021?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193830811&sr=8-1

This is a good examination of the argument. Worth a read if you are interested. Its an Atheist point of view but might be of interest to those of faith, if only to refute the arguments through thier "belief" lol!


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Who is watchin most haunted live at the moment, its the last one tonight so hopefully it will be a good one!!! :spider::evil::rip::mad2::axe:


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

I just think that people who beleive that "god" speaks to them are not quite all there, i have nothing against people being religious but hate religeon being forced on me


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## Rowlf (Jan 10, 2007)

"If God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent Him"

Voltaire


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## Platinumph (Feb 14, 2005)

I believe everyone has a right to believe or not believe in something 'higher' out there.

I was bought up in a religious household and attended church quite a lot, as i got older I stop going so much, as I have my own ideas on religion.

Yes, I think there is more to life than just what I see and here, I just keep my own ideas to myself, and believe in what works for me..


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

This is my favorite guy on creation vs evolution.

http://www.jsamples.com/WebFiles/sound/DP/creationism_vs_evolution.au

http://www.jsamples.com/WebFiles/sound/Chuck_Missler_G_07.au


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

hackskii said:


> This is my favorite guy on creation vs evolution.
> 
> http://www.jsamples.com/WebFiles/sound/DP/creationism_vs_evolution.au
> 
> http://www.jsamples.com/WebFiles/sound/Chuck_Missler_G_07.au


Just sounds like a non-scientific guy who fills in teh blanks with god... It's too complex - god made it... It's just the same thing again.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

What if space is something humans have no concept of? What if space is something that is always there and has always been there and will always be there? Humans have a limited time of life, so we apply the man made dimension of time into things to help our own understanding...however the universe is far more complex, it could have infinite dimensions to it, there could be parrallel universes.

We cant simply say that there is no existance of God, when we cant figure out even past a 4th dimension...we know absolutely nothing compared with what is out there and yet we seek the answer to the hardest question of them all. We must accept that we are only looking for the answer (and we can only look for the answer) using our own human knowledge, however this knowledge is totally useless because the answers we seek are way beyond our limited comprehension...just as a dog can not tell the answer to 10 divided by 2, it is beyond their intellect...we are asking questions which we cant answer because they are beyond our ability.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Lorian said:


> There is a phenomenal amount of evidence to support evolution.
> 
> 
> 
> L





megatron said:


> Evolution can't be proved 100% but there is alot of evidence to support it, in contrast to the zero evidence to support God.


You guys are talking micro-evolution. I believe In that.

But.

Darwin himself, at seven locations in The Origin of Species, urged the reader to ignore the fossil record if he or she wanted to believe his theory.

Darwin's theories were flawed.

The fossil record is contrary to Darwin's theories.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

I believe in God.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> What if space is something humans have no concept of? What if space is something that is always there and has always been there and will always be there? Humans have a limited time of life, so we apply the man made dimension of time into things to help our own understanding...however the universe is far more complex, it could have infinite dimensions to it, there could be parrallel universes.


Having a degree in theoretical physics I find that post offensive. Time is not "man-made" by a long shot, it's the fourth dimension... There are strong theories about multiple dimensions etc and the big bang. People have spent their lives researching and theorising this from evidence and mathematical proof, you are talking in very "airy fairy" terms "what if man has no concept of space blah blah" it doesn't even mean anything. Sorry but it's sh1te.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I don't know mega, it sort of made sense to me...


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm sure there is more to heaven and earth than our little philosophy of it


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

hackskii said:


> You guys are talking micro-evolution. I believe In that.
> 
> But.
> 
> ...


Do you believe that God created man, the Earth, oak trees, dinosaurs? i.e intelligent design?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Porky Pie said:


> Do you believe that God created man, the Earth, oak trees, dinosaurs? i.e intelligent design?


Absolutly.

When I look around I see God's hand in everything.

Man can corrupt anything and everything, I dont put much faith in him (man).


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

interesting how the believers have overtaken the nonbelievers in the poll..


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

How do you know there is a god for those of you that believe?

Have you seen him? spoken to him (2 way ) ? (seriously hope no one says yes to that)

Or is it because you have been taught that by your parents/teachers etc ?? If you hadnt of been taught that then would you still know there was a god?? No of course not!

My point is Religion is man made. It just gets passed on from generation to generation. And man makes changes to it as and when he see's fit. Or when it fits in with todays society.

Its a lie that started 2000 years ago when people where at there most desperate and would have believed anything!


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

here here bully


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Bulldozer said:


> How do you know there is a god for those of you that believe?
> 
> Have you seen him? spoken to him (2 way ) ? (seriously hope no one says yes to that)
> 
> ...


I spoke to god the other week down the big white telephone!!


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

i spoke to him when i was heavily anaesthetised lol.


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Absolutly.
> 
> When I look around I see God's hand in everything.


So did god create man, or are we **** sapiens a product of evolution? What's your take on this?

What reason is there for micro evolution, if we have a divine creatror? Why not stick with the old creating us "in a day" line Scott and be done with it?


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

god gave man freewill so we can have belivers and non belivers,so all you sceptic can thank god that he allowed you to have your viewpoints although they are wrong,that is his wisdom,that way only the faithfull will go to heaven.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

ARNIE said:


> god gave man freewill so we can have belivers and non belivers,so all you sceptic can thank god that he allowed you to have your viewpoints although they are wrong,that is his wisdom,that way only the faithfull will go to heaven.


Come on....

I am born... not my choice!! But I'm dealing with it!!

But seeing as I was born I have to adhere to "God's" rules and be grateful for the life I never asked for.

I go out and gorgeous woman in little mini skirts are all around, and I am supposed to have clean thoughts.. But guess what.. the last thought on my mind is... "I wonder if she is cold". We have fast cars, booze, movies, music, life etc.. etc.. all go against what God wants from us. So either he takes it away from us or leaves us to enjoy it and stop threatening us with a terible life after we die if we dont... cause once again.. I did not ask to be born!! .... but I am enjoying it so far so I reckon we even!!

He stuck us here and we dealing with it the best we can!! He spoke to man back in the day when they wrote all the scriptures... why does he not talk openly to anyone now. The usuals follows right about now "have faith", "Jesus is coming", "the lord works in mysterious ways"..... We just as lost now as we were lost in the desert 2000 to 3000 years ago. Yet we have more temptations as the poeple back then but God supposedly only wanted to speak to them.

There has been numerous cases of virgin mothers in the past. Mary was not the first. And quite frankly I would be ****ed if God shagged my woman before I did. And did this act not result in mary breakking the law "Thou shalt not commit adultery"?

Where did Cane get his wife... thought insest was not allowed.

Come on... who writes this sh!t anyway. We can go on for hours about how the bible contradicts itself. but I think as religon dies more and more laws come into play.. it was there to control man and it's loosing it's effect.. hence more laws to keep us under control... cattle in a big pen called earth!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Porky Pie said:


> So did god create man, or are we **** sapiens a product of evolution? What's your take on this?
> 
> What reason is there for micro evolution, if we have a divine creatror? Why not stick with the old creating us "in a day" line Scott and be done with it?


Yes we were created in God's image.

Why does everything have to be explained?

Many things are not understood, I can accept this and go on.

Micro-evolution?

Hmmmm, that is easy, because God wanted it that way.

I nor anyone else can question God.

Again if a man could understand God, he would not be man.

I rather like the way things are actually.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

What I don't get is that Vanity (pride) is one of the 7 deadly sins. Some say it's the most evil sin. Yet, god created us to worship him and live our lives in his name? Even if god didn't create us for that purpose, the church wants us to believe that everything we do should be done for god.

Sounds like god is pretty damn vain.

What I want to know is why didn't god let the fist humans in on the fact that their was a god? Why did it take 1,000's of years of humans being on earth for him to finally make his presence known instead of letting them pray to false gods? Does that mean that the first civilizations that didn't even know of the "right" god all go to hell? That's pretty unfair.

I really think the only intelligent design is the design of an institution that can convince people that tithing is the way to heaven. Why can't people give their money directly to charity, or some homeless guy on the street rather than a church?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

miami797 said:


> I really think the only intelligent design is the design of an institution that can convince people that tithing is the way to heaven. Why can't people give their money directly to charity, or some homeless guy on the street rather than a church?


Cause then the priests won't have any money to pay off all the little choir boys they abuse!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

miami797 said:


> What I want to know is why didn't god let the fist humans in on the fact that their was a god? Why did it take 1,000's of years of humans being on earth for him to finally make his presence known instead of letting them pray to false gods? Does that mean that the first civilizations that didn't even know of the "right" god all go to hell? That's pretty unfair.


The very first humans did in fact have open dialog with God.

They chose the seperation by not listening to what God told them NOT to do.

After that, the perfection was lost.

All your hostility twards God really boils down to Adam and Eve not listening.

Sorry guys but I have to bow out of this thread, not that I won't defend what I believe, but my belief system is based on faith and that is something that can not be proved.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

Hack, I'm not putting down your beliefs. I've been asking these questions to myself since I was in CCD classes when I was a kid. I've always questioned everything I've learned.

Adam and eve was a metaphorical story in my eyes. The tree the eve ate from was the "tree of knowledge." Seeking knowledge from somewhere other than god is what doomed mankind.

Most people don't even know who the very first humans are. Everyday history gets rewritten because we're finding more out about our past. If god had open dialog with the first people than why was their belief in god so much different than current beliefs? Wouldn't they have a better clue about how to worship god if he had that open dialog? If so than why aren't we following the same rituals? Most early cultures believed in astrology more than a god.

If god loves us as much as people say, than why create us to be able to screw up and go to hell? I love my child enough to wish only the best for him, his future, and his after life if their is one. If god loves him more than I do, than why let their be the possibility to go to hell, or rape or murder one of god's other children? Yeah, people are going to say "well, life is a test", but it's a cruel test if you ask me.


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## 7i7 (Sep 22, 2007)

Most people just cant accept that they are only animals and theres no afterlife, thats why simple social control mechanism like religion still exists - and will continue to do so.

BTW - I thought even christians moved past creationism, but oh well.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

If life is a test, where do all the miscarriages, the baby deaths etc go after they die? They haven't had enough time for their minds to develop enough to either believe or not believe. we know how they got there but they just woke up from a deep deep sleep.. where do they go when they die if they haven't developed any beliefs. answer me that one.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

As it says in the bible, children are innocent mate, therefore allowed into heaven.

This thread can go on and on and no-onw will be any better off for it.

Those who believe will keep believing and those who don't, won't simple. But is it really decent to pour scorn on and criticise those that choose to believe in a higher being? I don't think so.

I believe in god, I'm nopt saying I believe in everything the bible tells us, but I believe there is a higher power than us. And for man to think he's the be all and end all, really sums man up, don't you think


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

True... we all entitled to believe what we want to believe. Be it faith or something to hang onto. And yest his converstation will go on and on and on untill we either evolve into pure energ or the Lord comes to save us.

Either way.... bodybuilding is real!! And something we all agree on.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, etc. were all Jesus before Jesus was. Learning the similarities between all of these people may strengthen your beliefs, especially in the belief that god made his presence known since the onset of human life, or you may start to see how it can all be astrological metaphors.

Then again, it could just be plagiarism at it's finest.


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## genan (Jul 19, 2007)

ohh by the way if you reading this forum and are one of the 4.5 billion non-christian people i have bad news for you. you are fu*ed from the start mister - you go to hell. :flame: sorry to break the news for you. chin up.

also, i`m not sure what happened to the guys who lived before jesus, probably they got amnesty? 

although i must admit that believeing in god is a bit more understandable for me than believing in a religion. but just a bit.


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

TaintedSoul said:


> Come on....
> 
> I am born... not my choice!! But I'm dealing with it!!
> 
> ...


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

megatron said:


> Having a degree in theoretical physics I find that post offensive. Time is not "man-made" by a long shot, it's the fourth dimension... There are strong theories about multiple dimensions etc and the big bang. People have spent their lives researching and theorising this from evidence and mathematical proof, you are talking in very "airy fairy" terms "what if man has no concept of space blah blah" it doesn't even mean anything. Sorry but it's sh1te.


Thanx for the reasonable and friendly debate fella:rolleyes:

So with your degree in physics you think you know how the universe/space works? You might know more than some...but you know fuk all and so does every other human whos ever lived in the whole scheme of things.

I SAID THAT TIME WAS THE 4TH DIMENSION. Time is measured in a man made principle however...aka galileo's work. Infact it is the 4th dimension that we are aware of...whos to say there isnt a more simplier dimension than time, or height, width and depth? They are the simplest dimensions that we can think of with our intellect...but whos to say that our intellect means a damn thing, it could mean nothing. The same with 'mathematical proof' could all mean nothing, maths is our way of proving something using methods we are comfortable with...it doesnt give complete 'proof', it merely is made up to prove our 'human observations'. What if our 'human observations' are zero compared with the real 'truth' out there?

So what is the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 200006 dimensions fella? Please enlighten me...tell me what parralel universes are like? Even if you knew that, youd still know fuk all about space.

Do you find it hard to believe that space (which is just that, a 'space') is there, has always been there and will always be there? So if 'space' did not exist at one point (before time began) and the matter within space is constantly recycled...what is wrong with that idea? Would 'space' itself die as if it is a living organism that dies and seizes to exist? Where would it go? It is a void...what im saying is that either that void has been there forever and will always exist forever...or something must have caused that void and everything in it to suddenly appear?

In the end youve had a rant because youve got a physics degree, congratulations you mustve studied hard...but to think that you 'know' or anyone else on this planet 'knows' how space works is pathetic. No human has the ability to know completely how space works as it is beyond human intellect.

The same way that if God does exist, and we (just as you said 'mathematical proof') try to prove his existance with our pathetic 'human knowledge' then we are not only naive but extremely arrogant. To think that if there is an all powerful being who is infinitely more powerful than everything in the universe combined yet we mere humans are trying to scientifically 'prove' his existance with our next to nothing knowledge it shows how stupid we are.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Well I'd love to argue the details of physical models but unless you know something to start with it's pointless. Akin to debating with a kid frankly, believe what you want to believe that man know nothing about "space". It's just boring to read.

Sorry but iv'e spent a large portion of my life studying physical models of the universe, Quantum mechanics, string theory etc. And to be told that the human understanding of the universe is basic, by someone who can't grasp it's depth - is insulting.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

Is this going to get into string theory next?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

megatron said:


> Well I'd love to argue the details of physical models but unless you know something to start with it's pointless. Akin to debating with a kid frankly, believe what you want to believe that man know nothing about "space". It's just boring to read.
> 
> Sorry but iv'e spent a large portion of my life studying physical models of the universe, Quantum mechanics, string theory etc. And to be told that the human understanding of the universe is basic, by someone who can't grasp it's depth - is insulting.


From what i can gather (i only got A-level physics lol) I think Britbb is just trying to say that altho we as humans think we have an understanding of the universe ie quarks, string theory etc etc which all makes sense from our perception of things, it could all be completely wrong because it might be just that... our perception of things and we really have no way of truley knowing.

Can sort of see his point mega


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

What if there are more dimentions?

I think mathmatics already prove's this.

If we are in just 4 dimentions and something else can be in lets say 10 dimentions, could they/that thing pass through other dimentions without us even knowing it?

I dont know jack about physics, but to me it does not sound logical to believe in randomness to get me to ponder this question of my vary existance.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

megatron said:


> Well I'd love to argue the details of physical models but unless you know something to start with it's pointless. Akin to debating with a kid frankly, believe what you want to believe that man know nothing about "space". It's just boring to read.
> 
> Sorry but iv'e spent a large portion of my life studying physical models of the universe, Quantum mechanics, string theory etc. And to be told that the human understanding of the universe is basic, by someone who can't grasp it's depth - is insulting.


Dont you get it...'physical models of the universe' are a complete load of sh*t. Those physical models are there to help humans understanding of space...what part dont you get that we have just tipped the iceberg...infact its like weve literally only just touched the first atom of the iceberg.

You are looking at space from a humans perstective. Just say as a fly hsa no perspective of life or death...it simply lives and dies without thinking about death or God or anything else philosophical because it is beyond the flies ability to do so. Hence God is beyond our ability to understand. We can understand a the first atom of the universe just as a well trained monkey might be able to add together some single digit numbers.

Dont you realise that what we see and sense around us is not 'all that is there'...there are different colours we can not see (surely your physics has told you this) there are noises we can not hear...as such there are dimension we do not know of (and can not because we cant relate to these dimensions as they are beyond our comprehension as a human).

You are totally closed to the fact that science 'could' be wrong. Totally obsessed with the 'material' world as humans see it. Humans are a species, we have limited intelligence, the way we see the world is different to how a slug sees the world, different to how a fish or donkey see the world. They are all species aswell...just as they have limitations and can not understand quantum physics so to we have limitations and can not figure things out beyond our ability. Whilst we have found 4 dimensions (that fit what we know as humans) there could be millions of dimensions out there that we dont know and cant understand and will never know.

But you carry on thinking that as a 'well studied human' that you know a lot about space and how it works. (You know more than other humans about space...but that is just the first atom in the iceberg).


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> Dont you get it...'physical models of the universe' are a complete load of sh*t. Those physical models are there to help humans understanding of space...what part dont you get that we have just tipped the iceberg...infact its like weve literally only just touched the first atom of the iceberg.


I'm sorry but I don't see how you are qualified to make that judgement? As I see it we understand MOST of the mechanics of the universe through experimentation, mathematics and hard graft. What is left is the small part. But then who am I to say? I only have a degree in it, i bow down to your superior knowledge and experience.

Anyone can say "Yeah man but what about, like space dude?... We hardly know anything about it eh?" whilst not actually having the first idea of how much we DO actually know. Well we do know alot, most in fact - but again it's pointless trying to debate the details with someone who doesn't know anything about them. It's getting boring trying to explain that over and over frankly.

Just because we don't currently have an explanation for X does not mean that we won't, and it certianly doesn't mean "god did it". This is the attitude which holds back human progression imo.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

i cant believe how popular this thread got lol


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

Hi Guys, may I make a suggestion, for what its worth.

I am a happy and content aethiest. I am happy with people beleiving in what ever they want so long as that beleif is not forced upon others or used for gain.

For many years I have pondered about religion and through this thought I have concluded that it is not for me for pure lack of any trust in it.

Firstly, from an early age we are forced to read and beleive in a book which we do not know where it came. It has been translated into many languages throught the ages and it is beleived to have been amended during the english translation during the times of King James.

Why is all religion male orientated. Ok, save for Mary, who appears to play a sedentry role all things appear to be in the males favour. This also extends to islam where women are the subserviant ones, ie - covered by clothing, not allowed to meet other men etc. This leads me to beleive that the bible, koran and other holy books were written by men and in their best interests.

Also, I understand that the romans played a big part in spreading the bible. This makes me think that it was imposed upon people of nations as a tool to batter them down with. People say that the Roamns embraced other cultures and beleifs. This is true in part as they adopted some of their beleifes (which again makes it open to criticsm as to whether it is pure) but apart from this christianity was spread by the sword.

Again, if I am non beleiver then I will be damned to eternal fire. That does not sound like a god I wish to be associated with.

Religion has been used by all people over the years to assert their authority over others. You can scare someone with a stick and sword but scare them with thoughts and you have them won. How easy is that - its like the 'thought police'.

Some people are happy to beleive in something just for the pure feeling of sensation of belonging to something. I beleive this to be 'faith'. I am a practical person and find it hard to beleive in something which has no face.

Also, people on here have said that in times of troubles people turn to religion. Well, surely on that basis then religion must be responsible for the bad times aswell. I mean, if it is god who allegedly brings us into the world and him who takes us then surely it is he (mmmm male again) who is responsible for everything in between, including cause of death. Therefore, why does god do this?

On this basis I feel people are too afraid 'not' to beleive. So much so that paranoia sets in which in turn makes people wish to insert their beleifs onto others. Hypacrticial or what (sorry to use a biblical reference there!).


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

megatron said:


> I'm sorry but I don't see how you are qualified to make that judgement? As I see it we understand MOST of the mechanics of the universe through experimentation, mathematics and hard graft. What is left is the small part. But then who am I to say? I only have a degree in it, i bow down to your superior knowledge and experience.
> 
> Anyone can say "Yeah man but what about, like space dude?... We hardly know anything about it eh?" whilst not actually having the first idea of how much we DO actually know. Well we do know alot, most in fact - but again it's pointless trying to debate the details with someone who doesn't know anything about them. It's getting boring trying to explain that over and over frankly.
> 
> Just because we don't currently have an explanation for X does not mean that we won't, and it certianly doesn't mean "god did it". This is the attitude which holds back human progression imo.


Try to realise that we are only animals, we only have certain senses and certain intelligence...Lets make another comparison, a dog thinks it knows everything about the world from a dogs perspective, likewise we know more than the dog, yet we only know everything in the world from our own perspective.

Im not trying to argue with you about quantum physics or astro physics, you have studied it yet i have not...but you are pretty foolish to think (as humans) that we know almost everything about quantum physics/mechanics. Very foolish...we know absolutely nothing.

You seem to still be closed. Science is our own human method of solving and understanding things, science can only go so far as our own limited intelligence. Just as you cant get a slug to recite the whole works of shakespeare backwards (because it is beyond the ability of the slug) likewise you cant call upon a human to do something beyond its limitations aswell.

So you are basically saying that humans know vritually everything? 

That to me is very arrogant and foolish. If i wanted i could go back to university and get myself a physics degree (i have the a level grades and been to uni before) i could get my degree and then what? I will know about hte universe, about space, about GOD??? I dont think so somehow...i think id know a bit more about the universe and how we can understand it using our methods of science...but i wont and can never know fully about the universe because i only have limited intelligence.

Humans have 5 senses, we can only understand things around us via our 5 senses (some might not have the full 5 senses either). Stop trying to insult and just simply acknowledge that our senses arent enough because there are things that our senses can not pick up...they are beyond our ability.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Britbb said:


> Try to realise that we are only animals, we only have certain senses and certain intelligence...Lets make another comparison, a dog thinks it knows everything about the world from a dogs perspective, likewise we know more than the dog, *yet we only know everything in the world from our own perspective.*


That is true, perception is reality. And since everyone has a different perception of the way the world is, how can you tell what is really real?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm going to have to say "no". Sadly I believe in science, logic and evolution rather than (albeit much nicer) fairytales.


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## Gridlock1436114498 (Nov 11, 2004)

Join the Alternative Faithful:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4547464981


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Just thought I'd throw this up for kicks...






Marco V - Godd

Do you believe in a god that satisfies?

Do you believe in a god that opens eyes?

Do you believe in a god that tells you lies?

Or do you believe in me?

Do you believe in a god that brings you down?

Do you believe in a god that wears a crown?

do you believe in a god that makes you bow?

Or do you believe in me?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Gridlock said:


> Join the Alternative Faithful:
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4547464981


Too much to read as I have only been awake for an hour or so... But foudn this comment funny...

*Stuart Raikes (no network) wrote*

*
at 9:27am on August 31st, 2007*

*MMMMM very deep Grid mate,....*

*
*

*
altho i am DYING to say something sill right now, i shall refrain...and respect your group,..*

*
*

*
unless, humour is my way of expressing how i feel,...???*

*
*

*
mmmm*

*
*

*
errrrrr,....*

*
*

*
ok!!!.....*

*
*

*
**** flaps!!!! *

*
*

*
dogs bum hole!!!!!*

*
*

*
big hairy muff!!!!!*

*
*

*
sorry....*


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Britbb said:


> dog thinks it knows everything about the world from a dogs perspective
> 
> You seem to know alot about dogs
> 
> ...


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

> I'm not telling anyone not to believe in a god, just that there is no reason apart from self-comfort.


Bingo Mega!

But then I bet my house that you have never seen a ghost either? LOL

Its like I said before, if god can help people to get over hard times in their life and deal with stuff then fair crack IMO I mean no-one wants to her that quantem particles or black holes made the earth when their family dies - just that they are in a safe place etc....or like when my mum used to drink, it was going to church that helped her get sober....god sure as hell helped her if he's real or made up!

Ending note from me.....look at how close the votes are in the poll. this is kind of like a microcosm.....well it has been going on since forever!


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

as far as science goes, we only know as much as we know..... so thats it is it?? AS far as god and religion goes, if we were meant to know everything about the afterlife we would, but imagine if we did, there would be a heck of a lot of people topping themselves to go to a better place but thats not what life is about, its a journey of understanding and enlightenment


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## BIGGA (Sep 23, 2007)

No, iron is my god and the bench is my altar, long live free weights! j/k


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

This thread is still going on.... and it hasnt turned into a Californian hillside!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

TaintedSoul said:


> This thread is still going on.... and it hasnt turned into a Californian hillside!


Haaaa haaaa, just saw on the news how about 750 more people in some appartment complex was told to evacuate.

Strange as I must be seeing from a diffrent set of eyes than others.

I love logic, I love to be stimulated, but strangly I see evidence of God all around me.

I dont believe in randomness, I do feel everything happens for a reason, I do see this.

Can I explain it?..............No.

Do I even understand it?..No.

Can I accept it?.............Absolutly.

There are some things that have happened to me and my twin that just seem to freaky to be coincidence.

What if God put little things in your way to notice something?

I will leave this with this scripture as I see it fits here, 1 Corinthians 1:27:

but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Haaaa haaaa, just saw on the news how about 750 more people in some appartment complex was told to evacuate.
> 
> Strange as I must be seeing from a diffrent set of eyes than others.
> 
> ...


But come on Scott,

How can you accept that you have to live with imperfection cause of Adam and Eve and how can you except God only spoke to them back in the day and now we have to wondering around having faith and guessing certain happy and positive events are his will?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

TaintedSoul said:


> But come on Scott,
> 
> How can you except that you have to live with imperfection cause of Adam and Eve and how can you except God only spoke to them back in the day and now we have to wondering around having faith and guessing certain happy and positive events are his will?


I do think God speaks to us.

How could the creator of man be questioned by man?

i mean if there is questions then fine.

But God does not have to answer to us.

I cant even call foul here because God is God, who am I to question that?


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Mega, you are making me bored.

If you think that science has an answer for everything then you are deluded.

We can only have an answer for what questions we know to ask, science can only make sense of what we put infront of us. Science can only explain to us answers TO WHAT WE CAN SENSE AND WHAT WE KNOW IS OUT THERE.

We are a species of animal, our 'understanding (science)' is based on our senses, what we make of our surroundings. Just as is every other animals.

So we understand about particle theory as you said (well actually we dont, we dont have a clue about particle theory as it goes because we cant visualise it...we cant understand how hwole mountain ranges are made up, we cant understand how particles come together to form living beings...this is way beyond us, however maybe one day the answers to these questions will be found)...but you make a valid point nevertheless, a point that BACKS UP WHAT IM SAYING EVEN STRONGER. You mentioned particle theory...science (our understanding) has given us knowledge of how particle theory works (on a level that we can understand)...this is because we know particles exist so we ask questions about them and then we solve them, 'understanding'.

How are we to ask questions and understand things that we DONT KNOW EXIST?

What if there are limitless things in space that we dont even know are there?

We can only know what exists using our brains...as i have said, the same with any other animal...so what we know to exist will be different to what a monkey knows to exist, correct?

It is because our brains have limitations, we can only try to understand what we know to exist...unfortunately this is nothing compared with what is out there...it is the tip of the iceberg...hence why we can never understand space fully because there are things in space we can never see, hear, feel etc because they are beyond what we can ever understand.

If you think that all that is out there is what we can sense with our senses...then you are totally deluded.

Science has given us an understanding about what we know exists...but 'what we know exists' is nothing compared with what really exists out there.

Go on...i await another slapdash attempted insult reply from you. (Instead of having a good polite debate, im guessing i'll be treated to a reply like 'you seem to like dogs' as in your previous post). 

Anyway, you have the last post as i cant be asked talking to someone with a closed mind.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

hackskii said:


> God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,


And God has chosen saturday nights to get nutted.... 

Well he has for me anyway.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I do seem to think Brit has an excellent point and while I see mega's view. I am leaning toward Brit's views. I do believe in God, I'm not saying everything in the bible as we know it today is correct by a long way, but I think we are too miniscule to think we are the top of the tree by a long way.. (I know what I mean anyway  )


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

robsta9 said:


> And God has chosen saturday nights to get nutted....
> 
> Well he has for me anyway.


LOL, is that your cheat night Rob?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

The problem with believing in God is that you can't also believe that people are responsible for their own actions...

If there is an all-seeing all-knowing omnipotent God, then he MUST know all and see all. If that's the case, then he knows what you're going to do next. If he knows what you're going to do next, then effectively the future is mapped out. If the future is mapped out, then you don't actually have any say over what you are going to do, or what you just did. If that's the case, then we are all just robots, doing what out future tells us to do.

No, I'd rather take the science option please, where I am responsible for my own actions and where I can make choices to determine my future, and live and die by my own decisions.

Having said that, I believe we're pre-programmed anyway, so my argument is ALMOST out of the window


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I would really love for something to change my mind on the subject, it can be very bleak resigning yourself to a finite lifetime; accepting your mortality.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

refuse to accept it then boyo and have faith!!!  :angel:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

A quote I love from the film PITCH BLACK with Vin diesel, where they are trapped after being chased by aliens.....

Imam being the holy man and vin diesel riddick obviously.

"*Imam*: Because you do not believe in God does not mean God does not believe in - .

*Riddick*: Think someone could spend half their life in a slam with a horse bit in their mouth and not believe? Think he could start out in some liquor store trash bin with an umbilical cord wrapped around his neck and not believe? Got it all wrong, holy man. I absolutely believe in God... And I absolutely hate the fcuker.

*Riddick*: Where the hells your God now"


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

I think Thomas Paine was onto something. It's all sun worship.


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

TaintedSoul said:


> Or are we spiritual beings having a human experience.
> 
> meaning perhaps this is just a phase of a greater life we not aware of?


Pretty much my belief.

Take Reiki energy healing, was a bit sceptical at first but after a couple of sessions trying to "allow it in" there really is something going on. Anyone that has had a few sessions will understand.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

mrmasive said:


> Take Reiki energy healing, was a bit sceptical at first but after a couple of sessions trying to "allow it in" there really is something going on. Anyone that has had a few sessions will understand.


Can`t beat Reiki,

I`m a Reiki Master...........

And I believe in God..........

I also believe that a person IS responsible for their own actions...

I beileve in reincarnation........

The afterlife

Heaven & Hell

Spirits (Ghosts)

And a host of other things, including the bible.......


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

Yeah could have continued lol.

I have recently been thinking about doing Reiki L1.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

mrmasive said:


> Yeah could have continued lol.
> 
> I have recently been thinking about doing Reiki L1.


Go for it, then if you like it you can decide to just go to L2 and not bother with the Master side of things...

I do about 10+ versions of Reiki all of which are slightly different in the way they feel to the person recieving the energy...


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Go for it, then if you like it you can decide to just go to L2 and not bother with the Master side of things...
> 
> I do about 10+ versions of Reiki all of which are slightly different in the way they feel to the person recieving the energy...


BLoody witch doctory


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> And I believe in God..........
> 
> I also believe that a person IS responsible for their own actions...


So is your God not omnipotent then?


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## Kel (Jan 24, 2005)

jw007 said:


> I would like to hear one of the "free masons" on here views on religion etc etc, because i have a sneaky feeling that they are privvy to some information that will make a lot of people look very very silly one day


 i agree with JW here would be very interesting to here a masons take on it.


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## Kel (Jan 24, 2005)

I believe there is something or someone but im not religious and never have been. My personal view is this is the "hell" that we live in murders, rapes, drugs so on, so i would like to think that we will go to a better place when we pop our clogs.

Imo the body is nothing more than a vehicle which carries the soul when i go id like to believe my soul will live on be it in another form of life whatever. We will never know.

What gives one person comfort another person takes the p*ss out of its the same with everything, the only thing we can do is respect other peoples views and get on with life.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

megatron said:


> BLoody witch doctory


HAHAHAHA, funny sod:love:


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

big said:


> So is your God not omnipotent then?


Like all things God (or whatever people wish to call him/her) gives us a *choice* with that in mind if we have a life of sin then we go to *hell* if we are *good* we go to heaven..

Whilst in *hell* we still have choices to make in that we can *repent* and slowly make our way to *heaven* with the help of *gaurdians*.

Within the *heavenly relm* there are 7 levels to reach the next level we have to become more *enlightened/spiritual* and to do this one option open to us is *reincarnation* in which we *choose* the type of life we are to lead but whilst back upon the *earthly plain* it is our own *choices* which will once again decide if we are to progress any further *spiritually*...

Life is all about learning from the mistakes we made *previously*

And all that is down to our own *choices*

And that Big is how I see & believe it.....

"As you give so shall you also recieve"


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Never heard of the comment pop our clogs before, that sounds kind of cool.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

This old chesnut is still going? No bibles have been burnt and no ones been crusified!!

Impressive!!


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

Just used to roll a few splifs with.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

miami797 said:


> Just used to roll a few splifs with.


hahahahaa my mom found me doing that when I was 16 or 17. The paper is just too perfect. Anyway she was still rather religous back then and I got into all sorts of sh!t.

I was just trying to make my way through Genesis as best as I could.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Gains said:


> I agree. Anything that relies on and actively encourages unquestioning faith is also very dangerous in my opinion.


I am deadly, fookin deadly man!! LOL


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

i agree with you Kez.

Religion is devisive and serves only to devide people. Just the way the top brass like things.

My mate skinned up with a page of the bible too many many years ago. We ribbed him for years over it and he fealt really guilty about it. Pathetic if you ask me.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

It's recycling. Most don't read the book themselves anyway. They probably wouldn't even notice a few pages missing.

Me on the other hand. I've read the bible and I've smoked it. If we're aloud to eat and drink jesus, why not smoke him?

Off topic a bit, but my mother always told people that she would never get cremated for fear that I would smoke her ashes.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

miami797 said:


> It's recycling. Most don't read the book themselves anyway. They probably wouldn't even notice a few pages missing.
> 
> Me on the other hand. I've read the bible and I've smoked it. If we're aloud to eat and drink jesus, why not smoke him?
> 
> Off topic a bit, but my mother always told people that she would never get cremated for fear that I would smoke her ashes.


PMSL - classic.


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

nice one - hows the nipper Miami?


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

cant believe this is still going on,lol, probably one of truewarriers better threads ehh


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

He's good. He's always making me laugh.

It's thanksgiving week here in the States, so I get some extra time off work to play with him and change his sh*t diapers.


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

*takes a bow*


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## Farmer_Joe (Nov 20, 2007)

i dont believe in god, because i believe in science and there is no evidence or factual data. but i would like to know what is passed space and they talk of the big bang, well what the hell blew up???


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

what evidence is there that their isn't a god? you're going to say cos bad things happen to good people etc etc,but who said god has to be all powerful? theres two sides to a coin.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Did anyone see Never Mind The Buzzcock's last night? When Simon Amstel was grilling Jermane Jackson about Religon (he's Muslim but used to be christian) he said, I think its good that you use religon to find answers to questions you dont know, personally I use Google!

LMFAO


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Magic Torch said:


> Did anyone see Never Mind The Buzzcock's last night? When Simon Amstel was grilling Jermane Jackson about Religon (he's Muslim but used to be christian) he said, I think its good that you use religon to find answers to questions you dont know, personally I use Google!
> 
> LMFAO


LOL


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Truewarrior1 said:


> what evidence is there that their isn't a god? you're going to say cos bad things happen to good people etc etc,but who said god has to be all powerful? theres two sides to a coin.


Ahh you wish us to prove a negative... Don't be silly.


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## John Hodgson (Jan 17, 2007)

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

The above is very interesting, covers a number of issue's, the first part is about religion. Watch and make your own mind up!!!

For me the answer is simply NO, but everyone has the right to their own beliefs as long as no harm is done to others.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

John Hodgson said:


> http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
> 
> The above is very interesting, covers a number of issue's, the first part is about religion. Watch and make your own mind up!!!
> 
> For me the answer is simply NO, but everyone has the right to their own beliefs as long as no harm is done to others.


This is a long one guys, but give it a watch, trust me it'll *really* open your eyes I *can* assure you.


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## genan (Jul 19, 2007)

it all started like this (according to eddie izzard  )


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

John Hodgson said:


> http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/


This is the whole movie to that banking piece I posted a while back.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

John Hodgson said:


> http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
> 
> The above is very interesting, covers a number of issue's, the first part is about religion. Watch and make your own mind up!!!
> 
> For me the answer is simply NO, but everyone has the right to their own beliefs as long as no harm is done to others.


My brother has been on about this. perhaps a sunday watch for me.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I am watching it now, I will try and keep an open mind.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, that movie was totally heavy.

Made me sad, not because of the religion part, but the 911, world banking and the other stuff.

Oh man, that is some sad information, keeping the people stupid while they fleece the flock.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Wow, that movie was totally heavy.
> 
> Made me sad, not because of the religion part, but the 911, world banking and the other stuff.
> 
> Oh man, that is some sad information, keeping the people stupid while they fleece the flock.


Yip... MTV, sports, movies, fashion... entertain them while you carry on with your agenda.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

hackskii said:


> Wow, that movie was totally heavy.
> 
> Made me sad, not because of the religion part, but the 911, world banking and the other stuff.
> 
> Oh man, that is some sad information, keeping the people stupid while they fleece the flock.


And according to that, some of the taxes you pay over there are illegal/unconstitutional too.


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

i dont wish to delve too deeply but this is what David Icke has been sayiong for years. I saw DI give a speach about 10 years ago and he really made me think. Once you get passed the alien/shapeshifting stuff the info he provides and backs regarding religion, politics and commerce is amazing. Well worth a look guys if you have spare time.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

I watched a bit of that zeitgeist movie and it looked pretty interesting, takes ages to load though, I take it it cant be purchased on dvd? I got to the bit concerning religion where they were talking about the defining events of religious figures, the virgin births, 25th dec, died, resurrected in 3 days, etc


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

wow how interesting. Before I comment I would love to hear from any of you 'beleivers' as to what you think of it?

By the way - John and Paul how have you the time to be watching this. Should you two not be training or building gyms?


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

Cap said:


> I watched a bit of that zeitgeist movie and it looked pretty interesting, takes ages to load though, I take it it cant be purchased on dvd? I got to the bit concerning religion where they were talking about the defining events of religious figures, the virgin births, 25th dec, died, resurrected in 3 days, etc


cap - its available on Torrentspy to download (bittorrent)


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

Taxes were even voted unconstitutional at one point in our history. The 16th amendment does give them the power to tax us now though, but constitutionality of it is still a debate. The way it was worded was different for each state, and places like Ohio weren't even states yet at that point. So when Ohio ratified the amendment it shouldn't have counted.

This movie is just the tip of the ice berg. Check out The Bohemian Club (Bohemian Grove) and see what presidents really do for fun. The evangelists that voted for bush will be shocked at that one. Check out prison camps here in the US, and everything else that FEMA has planned for Martial Law to go into effect. Don't believe me, just check REX 84. That was exposed during the Iran Contras, and is still in effect today.

Just read the patriot act, and the new Victory act. The Victory Act gives the US government the power of "secret executions" of us citizens. If anyone in this country took the time to read the crap that these politicians are putting through it would open their eyes. Forget the conspiracy theory stuff, just stick to the stuff that we know is for real.


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

we have a number of enlightened ones on this site. I have never been the same since going to see David Icke. Call me apathetic but I am so annoyed with the arrogance of politicians these days that I just dont want to vote, not a case cant be bothered, I really can be but just dont want to.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

leeston said:


> wow how interesting. Before I comment I would love to hear from any of you 'beleivers' as to what you think of it?


I can give you my two cents worth.

Before Christ everything pointed to his comming.

After he died everything points back to Christ.

Notice after his death nobody has had any of the same names and such as those prior too Christ?

I see many things there like in the stars that point to Christ, not being another immitation of the others.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

cleverly done film, just like that load of bollox that was put out about 911


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

leeston said:


> we have a number of enlightened ones on this site. I have never been the same since going to see David Icke. Call me apathetic but I am so annoyed with the arrogance of politicians these days that I just dont want to vote, not a case cant be bothered, I really can be but just dont want to.


people who don't vote have NO right to complain about the government IMO,if you didn't vote what the hell did you expect? yes you're only one person but theres millions out there thinking the same,what if you all voted! (that's not me taking a shot at you personally)


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

no worries truewarrior. I know you are not being personal but I have thought along the same lines as you before about other people who chose not to vote.

However, david icke sums this up perfectly.

ALL of the politicians are puppets. Big business is the puppet master. Vote for this puppet, no vote for that puppet but look closer and they are all being operated by the same thing!

What I mean is it does not matter who you vote for. The big three are the same under the skin and the policies would all amount to the same if they were to get in.

truewarrior - answer me this. What if I dont like the big three parties (or the smaller ones). Who should I vote for then?

Should I just vote for the sake of it?


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

leeston said:


> no worries truewarrior. I know you are not being personal but I have thought along the same lines as you before about other people who chose not to vote.
> 
> However, david icke sums this up perfectly.
> 
> ...


I think if you look, its not that hard to see they are all the same. I dont vote for pretty much the same reason you dont Leeston, however I have not read any of Ickes work. I have heard about the lizard stuff and the like though. Any recommendations as to what to read?


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

go for his modern stuff but all of his work is readable.

I TOTALLY agree about the lizard stuff as being embarressing and must turn alot off. However, after the first sections he moves onto the politics stuff, thats where it gets interesting.

I had his book on 911 a few years ago. It had a bright yellow cover, and it was soo interesting. I have also downloaded some of his stuff and i could send the dvd's to you if you wanted.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

leeston said:


> truewarrior - answer me this. What if I dont like the big three parties (or the smaller ones). Who should I vote for then?
> 
> Should I just vote for the sake of it?


Well, I am not truewarrior but I will tell you why I vote.

I vote for the lesser of the evil's.

You can also vote for propisitions and other ammendments, after all those don't go through without a majority vote.

I am thankfull that I have the oppertunity to vote.


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

*smartass remarks on* if you don't like the government here move to canada *smartass remarks off* to be honest no they don't all have the same policies,if you actually read into it and watch shows like question time you'll see although the conservatives and labour don't differ to much,lib dems take a different approach.i haven't voted yet but i will vote for them,sure they probably won't win,but it might just be enough votes for them to slowly gain more seats in the big house


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

i feel you see only what they want you to see. Mate, they are dictated to by big business and things like Iraq war would have happended even if Lib Dems were in even though they 'sort of' disagreed with it when labour commited us.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Cap said:


> I think if you look, its not that hard to see they are all the same. I dont vote for pretty much the same reason you dont Leeston, however I have not read any of Ickes work. I have heard about the lizard stuff and the like though. Any recommendations as to what to read?


I think David Icke practises disinformation. Truth mixed in with sh!t.

I like to browse these from time to time.

www.rense.com

www.prisonplanet.com

Rense has been talking about all the things miami mentioned ages ago. I somehow feel these sites are allowed to run as a test bed to see the publics reaction.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

I think this explains voting for either party does not matter.

Democracy in action!


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

Speaking of third parties. What's up with the BNP? They seemed to be party of choice in south london. Is it as racist as some people make it out to be, or is it more of a Nationalist party?

Ron Paul is one politician that I'm starting to like. I've been voting democrat ever since I could vote, but this is the first republican that I like. He's the only true republican up for nomination. If you look at how bush votes and read the patriot act how can you tell me that he's stands for constitutional rights and making the government smaller?

I may have to register republican so I can vote in the republican primary.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

I dont actually know to be honest! The papers and media spout so much bull**** about them I do wonder if they are as bad as they are made out to be?


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Cap said:


> I dont actually know to be honest! The papers and media spout so much bull**** about them I do wonder if they are as bad as they are made out to be?


I dunno mate, never really been into the whole "****** niggger niggger, out out out" scene myself... Some may call it racist I suppose...


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

megatron said:


> I dunno mate, never really been into the whole *"****** niggger niggger, out out out"* scene myself... Some may call it racist I suppose...


WTF ??? what you on about?


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

TaintedSoul said:


> WTF ??? what you on about?


allegedly that is what the BNP are like according to Mega


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

that was the NF wasnt it, BNP are ok now


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Yeah sure they are, until the doors are closed then the white hoods come on... Conservative is far enough right for me, nothing against foriegners (apart from the French who all deserve to die horribly).


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

BNP are heavily linked to the NF. there was a documentary on it a while back.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Subject: Fwd: FAITH... Incredible argument

FAITH-a civil debate

As the bell rings to begin class, a Professor walks around his desk. He pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

Professor: "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

Michael: "Yes sir."

Professor: "So you believe in God?"

Michael: "Absolutely."

Professor: "Is God good?"

Michael: "Sure! God's good."

Professor: "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

Michael: "Yes."

Professor: "Are you good or evil?"

Michael: "The Bible says I'm evil."

The Professor, grinning: "Aha! The Bible!"

The Professor paces back and forth.

Professor: "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

Michael: "Yes sir, I would."

Professor: "So you're good...!"

Michael interrupts: "I wouldn't say that."

Professor: "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

Michael just looks at the professor blankly.

Professor: "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

Michael remains silent.

Professor: "No, you can't, can you?"

The Professor takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

Professor: "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

Michael, hesitantly: "Er...yes."

Professor: "Is Satan good?"

Michael, without hesitation: "No."

Professor: "Then where does Satan come from?"

Michael, feeling awkward: "From God."

Professor: "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

Michael: "Yes, sir."

Professor: "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

Michael: "Yes."

Professor: "So who created evil? If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Michael just stares at the professor with no expression.

Professor: "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

Michael, looking down at his feet: "Yes."

Professor: "So who created them?"

Michael does not answer.

Professor: "Who created them?"

Michael still will not answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom in front of another student. The class is mesmerized.

Professor: "Tell me; do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

William: "Yes, professor, I do."

Professor, as he stops pacing: "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

William: "No sir. I've never seen Him."

Professor: "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

William: "No, sir, I have not."

Professor: "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

William: "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

Professor: "Yet you still believe in him?"

William: "Yes."

Professor: "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

William: "Nothing. I only have my faith."

Professor: "Yes, faith; and that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

Suddenly, another student in the back of the room stands quietly for a moment, until the professor looks in her direction.

Professor: Yes, Ashley. You have something to add to the discussion?

Ashley: "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

Professor: "Yes. There is heat."

Ashley: "And is there such a thing as cold?"

Professor: "Yes, there is cold too."

Ashley: "No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet.

Ashley: "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to -458 degrees below zero Fahrenheit, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

Ashley: "What about darkness, professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?"

Professor, without hesitation: "Yes, what is night if it isn't darkness?"

Ashley: "Again, that is inaccurate, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a very interesting semester.

Professor: "So what point are you making, young lady?"

Ashley: "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time.

Professor: "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

Ashley: "You are working on the premise of duality. You argue that there is life and then there is death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can not even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never been seen, much less fully understood; either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

The professor looks stunned.

Ashley: "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

Professor: "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young lady, yes, of course I do."

Ashley: "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

Ashley: "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and can not even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. Ashley remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

Ashley: "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean." The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out into laughter.

Ashley: "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. It certainly feels like an eternity before the professor finally speaks.

Professor: "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

Ashley: "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life. Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Professor, now seeming a bit uncertain: "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

Ashley: "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sits down at his desk, obviously in deep thought.

This is a similar transcript to a discussion that actually occurred in a Philosophy classroom in America. The professor is now a Christian. Michael went on to become a philosophy professor, a Christian one. William became a pastor. Ashley became a biological engineer.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Absolutely superb scott. I would rep you but I only did yesterday and cannot...

Really sums up this thread I think


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

robsta9 said:


> Absolutely superb scott. I would rep you but I only did yesterday and cannot...
> 
> Really sums up this thread I think


Thanks, a Christian frend sent that to me at work so im like Hmmmmmm, perfict place to park that one


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Subject: Fwd: FAITH... Incredible argument
> 
> FAITH-a civil debate
> 
> ...


If I'd been the Prof, I'd have battered Ashley - cheeky little Cnut.

Dreadful, spurious, plain wrong, total work of fiction - evolution not proved - rubbish!

Scott - you're a good guy - I like and respect you. Give up on this one - you've made your point. You have your faith, non believers have science, logic and rational thought - never the twain shall meet so it seems.

You are descended from a monkey....


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

How do you know Ashley wouldn't have battered you porky.....lol

You may be descended from a monkey, I am descended from the all knowing, all seeing, absolute master of the entire whole universe...Mr robsta snr, and he passed his attributes onto me


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Porky Pie said:


> If I'd been the Prof, I'd have battered Ashley - cheeky little Cnut.


LMFAO!!!!


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

robsta9 said:


> How do you know Ashley wouldn't have battered you porky.....lol


I'll give you that one.:beer1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Porky Pie said:


> Scott - you're a good guy - I like and respect you. Give up on this one - you've made your point. You have your faith, non believers have science, logic and rational thought - never the twain shall meet so it seems.
> 
> You are descended from a monkey....


How could anyone respect me if I just gave up?

So, what you are saying is that you respect me, but if I give up on this one and concede you would have more respect for me?

Hardly

Nope, I just might turn up the heat and allow you to give up! mg:


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Porky Pie said:


> I'll give you that one.:beer1:


lol....:love:


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

No not at all. I feel 100% that there is no such thing as god.Thats because i strongly believe evolution. Everything adds together about evolving etc.

Evolution in my opinion basically puts God out of the equation.

I would like there to have been a God and heavan etc but just dont think there is.


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

I fully agree with you mate. Heres another question to make you think tho . .

we have evolved to where we are now, but where will evolution take us in hundreds or thousands of years time?


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

my name is Thor, and I am a god. So yes I belive in gods!

I belive in Science, I belive in evolution. But I do also belive in God.


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Lux said:


> I fully agree with you mate. Heres another question to make you think tho . .
> 
> we have evolved to where we are now, but where will evolution take us in hundreds or thousands of years time?


Really dont have a clue. Well i think on average people are getting taller. So i think we will just get taller.


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

YetiMan said:


> my name is Thor


Do you have a massive hammer?


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

dmcc said:


> Do you have a massive hammer?


Why now you mention it


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## stow (Jun 5, 2007)

Started as organic matter, end as organic matter when lights out. Here by total chance. Make the most of it.

Fine with people having faith etc if it helps them justify existance or overcome problems, but it doesn't change the above for me.

Thats my view.


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

stow said:


> Started as organic matter, end as organic matter when lights out. Here by total chance. Make the most of it.
> 
> *Fine with people having faith etc if it helps them justify existance or overcome problems*, but it doesn't change the above for me.
> 
> Thats my view.


I personaly think this comment is some what unfair. Because I belive in god does not mean I look to god or faith to justify my existance nor to overcome any problems so I do think this is some what of a unfair statement.


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## JawD (Sep 15, 2004)

I hate this question. Im 36 years old and I dont have an answer. No! Im 35  36 soon. Anyway, I dont think its as clean cut as yes or no. I dont think there is a God in the guise the bible would have you believe. I think to ask if God is real you have to ask what is God? I think God is different to alot of people. I class myself as spiritual. I am Catholic, but not practicing nor confirmed. I dont really believe in the bible but do think it teaches some good values. I dont believe in Jesus as per the bible, but do think there was a guy called Jesus who done things that were perceived as miracles.

My whole problem with Catholisism is the way they bastardised Paganism to make christianity more believable / easier for the masses to accept. The church used to be one mass corrupt organisation. So, I struggle to accept the whole bible deal / church / God etc. But, I do not think that everything is so black/white. Alive then dead.

Im not sure, maybe Im just scared of not being alive? maybe I just want to believe that Ill be at peace with my past relatives when I die. I think there is **** loads that Man doesnt understand. Because we dont understand it or cant explain it we just shrug it off as not being possible.

Im open minded pretty much. But if you asked for a black/white answer Id prob say no. Its just not that straight forward as this damn reply proves


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## foxriver (Jan 6, 2008)

i'm a buddhist and have been for year. life is good


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Do we have any scientologists in here ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Look at the TAO, that has God implications from 2500 years ago, very interesting stuff if you want to read it.

I think there are 81 verses and some of them are super heavy stuff.

This is just one translation.

TAO.pdf


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## JawD (Sep 15, 2004)

nathanlowe said:


> Whats the religion where you believe in science.
> 
> Scientology, i should be in that.


Isnt that was Tom Cruise is? Bunch of nutters


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Yeh he is.

And brad pitt is buddhist i think.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Who revived this thread???


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## tahir (Feb 15, 2008)

TaintedSoul said:


> Who revived this thread???


lol!

exactly wat i was thinking


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

I believe in a god, My god, I talk to him every day, I tell him when I'm p1ssed at him and he lets me know when he's p1ssed at me. I don't have to go to a building or temple to do it. Don't need to confess my sins to a mere mortal. He already knows what i've done and what I'm capable of doing. We got it all worked out between the two of us.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, great thread...

I respect everyones views.


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## flapjack (Mar 1, 2008)

As you sit there at your PC you are at the centre of an infinite Universe.

If you close your eyes you can imagine the entire Universe inside your mind.

Which one is real???????

Does anything really exist?????????

No I don't take drugs, but I should probably get more sleep.


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

Is there a fifth dimensional world? Seventh dimensional? Would that make us appear like a two dimensional object does to us? Could that be the secret to the paranormal, they just exist in a different dimension that makes it so we can't see them but they can see us?


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Absurdist atheist here! Basic tenets...

Rejection of any purpose or meaning to life.

Rejection of any higher power.

Rejection of suicide as a way out of life.

So you're left with : life is pointless / meaningless, get through it anyway, then when you're dead, you're dead and it's done.

Cheers,

G


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## DRED (Apr 13, 2006)

why is there so much pain and suffering in the world,surley a god would not want this!

children suffering,horrible disease.

i know everyone has to die and i hope there is something else after this life but why make people suffer?


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## simeon69 (Nov 15, 2007)

ok this is for all the none belivers!!

would you get/have been married in a church? get a child christened? or even take a loved one to church (god forbid) if they died for one last send off? if you didnt belive in him would you not just take them to the cemetary say your personal good byes and then go home??

sim


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## JawD (Sep 15, 2004)

simeon69 said:


> ok this is for all the none belivers!!
> 
> would you get/have been married in a church? get a child christened? or even take a loved one to church (god forbid) if they died for one last send off? if you didnt belive in him would you not just take them to the cemetary say your personal good byes and then go home??
> 
> sim


Here's a thought along these lines. I became a father in Sept. My son is now 6 months old. Before then my view was always not to get him christened as who was I to decide what his religious beliefs were.

However, now that he is born my opinion has changed. I am considering getting him christened. But why? Because the teachings of the church are good. While I might not believe in the bible (as I say before I class myself as spiritual but Ill not go into any great depth there), thats not to say I dont want my son learning about what the church has to offer.

Like any parent, I want him to grow into a decent person. Not God fearing, but dare I say like me in a way, only better. One that understands right/wrong and so on. Maybe, just maybe, if I put him on this path, then when he is older to choose and decide he can. If he wants to leave the path I put him on then so be it that would be his choice.

Its not decided, its still something Im considering. Thing is, religions and faiths are mans making. But whatever there is, is bigger than man and all that he makes. I often do think that man has such an elevated view of himself when it comes to all things. As it is, we're pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

simeon69 said:


> ok this is for all the none belivers!!
> 
> would you get/have been married in a church? get a child christened? or even take a loved one to church (god forbid) if they died for one last send off? if you didnt belive in him would you not just take them to the cemetary say your personal good byes and then go home??
> 
> sim


I would definately not get married in a church, never have a child christened, i would arrange a church funeral for a loved one if that was what they wanted but only if i knew that was what they wanted, when i die i want nothing religious at my funeral as far as i am concerned may as well just throw me on the fire when i die, or throw me overboard off a boat.


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## tony1401 (Mar 8, 2008)

Kezz said:


> I do believe in the afterlife whether it be heaven or here on earth in another dimension, i have seen so much freaky **** in my life it would be virtually impossible not to believe in it!!


same ere, but no one ever believes me


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## jonidee (Jan 7, 2008)

simeon69 said:


> ok this is for all the none belivers!!
> 
> would you get/have been married in a church? get a child christened? or even take a loved one to church (god forbid) if they died for one last send off? if you didnt belive in him would you not just take them to the cemetary say your personal good byes and then go home??
> 
> sim


Do you not think this is down to a lack off options?

I mean where else can you legally go for a funeral or a wedding?

Not a lot of options, plus its all about the bride isn't it, church, big dress, fancy cars and flowers etc.

I personally don't think in this day and age people even consider the God thing, more the thousands of pounds they have just spent, lol.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> I would definately not get married in a church, never have a child christened, i would arrange a church funeral for a loved one if that was what they wanted but only if i knew that was what they wanted, when i die i want nothing religious at my funeral as far as i am concerned may as well just throw me on the fire when i die, or throw me overboard off a boat.


satan rubs his hands in anticipation of his next soul he he


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

simeon69 said:


> would you get/have been married in a church? get a child christened? or even take a loved one to church (god forbid) if they died for one last send off? if you didnt belive in him would you not just take them to the cemetary say your personal good byes and then go home??


It's illegal for me to get married in a church (I dislike the term "civil partnership" - ugh), will never have children and will have a secular send-off. Then again, my religious views are the product of an Irish catholic upbringing...


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## bigdaftjoe (Nov 21, 2005)

but surely your god will "forgive you" if you repent?


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## 2tpaul (Feb 27, 2008)

yes i think theres a god, i dont go to church though


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2008)

Yes for me, 100%.


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## Artemis (Mar 23, 2008)

fuk me half the people in africa are chritsian and die of starvation. babies are born with aids and die months later. a lot of these are good people that believe in god and living a good life and look at what happens to them. so know i do not believe in god. may western societies enjoy their wealth and the benefit of thinking that living a good life brings reward as a christian from god. their is only nature and mans ability to destroy everything on this lousy planet


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

I had alot of religous bull crap when i was growing up mum was a church goer... well now they stopped attending the church...and they realised it is all rubbish with seedy little power struck men..

honestly if god was a real entity he wouldnt go through corrupt men to teach his dealings it would probably use women


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## Artemis (Mar 23, 2008)

here here


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## bkotey (Mar 29, 2007)

TaintedSoul said:


> Who revived this thread???


God Maybe? lol


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## taylzo (Mar 9, 2008)

Artemis said:


> fuk me half the people in africa are chritsian and die of starvation. babies are born with aids and die months later. a lot of these are good people that believe in god and living a good life and look at what happens to them. so know i do not believe in god. may western societies enjoy their wealth and the benefit of thinking that living a good life brings reward as a christian from god. their is only nature and mans ability to destroy everything on this lousy planet


I'm with you on that


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## yeomans_12 (May 31, 2007)

id like to think theres a god but theres a hell of alot of questions and not enuff answers if u know wat i mean

:bolt:


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## Artemis (Mar 23, 2008)

hey Taylzo glad u agree. im sverley pationate about my opionions on the subject lol..people tick me off that think 2 prayers a day keep the bad stuff away..anyway love ur pic and its nice to have somone agree with me, dont spose ur local lol?


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## Naty (Mar 25, 2008)

taylzo said:


> I'm with you on that


agree totally ... No i dont belive in god!


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

big said:


> The problem with believing in God is that you can't also believe that people are responsible for their own actions...
> 
> If there is an all-seeing all-knowing omnipotent God, then he MUST know all and see all. If that's the case, then he knows what you're going to do next. If he knows what you're going to do next, then effectively the future is mapped out. If the future is mapped out, then you don't actually have any say over what you are going to do, or what you just did. If that's the case, then we are all just robots, doing what out future tells us to do.
> 
> ...


I understand what your saying mate but in the bible it says God gave humans free will so basically we make our own decisions and are responsable for our own actions and thus are in control of our own destiny.

Thats what the bible says anyway.

I dont follow a certain religion but i do believe in god but for me its just a personal faith thing and i feel it helps make me a better person. I would never force my beliefs on someone else though and believe religion should be a personal journey.

I dont think you have to be a saint either to believe in god as im certainly not and i have done bad things and probaly will again in my life but i do try and do good things aswell and believe although weak at times im a good person at heart.


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## Artemis (Mar 23, 2008)

bible also said moses crossed the red sea. In fact the orgional script shows that moses crossed the Reed Sea, which is a shallow watered marsh. Also the Hebrews were armed and killed the son of Ramesys in a battle.So much for the peacefull god driven march out of egypt. Ramesys son was killed by God, but rather by men that believed in god. The bible is chinese whispers and more or less fables and myths based on gossip, so please dont quote the bible, the best selling work of fiction in history.


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

Re what Artemis said - various aid agencies state (rightly, in my view) that the child death rate and AIDS problems in Africa would be alleviated if the catholic church, highly active in Africa, relaxed its ban on condoms.


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

dmcc said:


> Re what Artemis said - various aid agencies state (rightly, in my view) that the child death rate and AIDS problems in Africa would be alleviated if the catholic church, highly active in Africa, relaxed its ban on condoms.


is this only from the married couples then? as sex outside marrige is also not allowed! but are you saying people only choose to ignore the marrige part and would jump on the use of condoms? england is secular and condoms are available for free and in every pub toilet in the uk but we still have the highest teen pregnancy rate in europe with std rising rapidly amongst the youth,oh hang on its the catholic churches fault.........lol:confused:


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

That's not what I'm saying. The Catholic Church is very active in Africa and has a lot of influence. Culturally, families in Africa tend to be larger than here in Europe and proportionately the infant mortality rate is higher, and the HIV infection rate is sky-high. Use of condoms would cut the infection rate, but the Church teaches that use of contraception is a sin, and devout followers therefore do not use condoms.

The problem here of teenage pregnancy has less to do with the Chuch and more to do with getting bladdered and not thinking.


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## taylzo (Mar 9, 2008)

Artemis said:


> hey Taylzo glad u agree. im sverley pationate about my opionions on the subject lol..people tick me off that think 2 prayers a day keep the bad stuff away..anyway love ur pic and its nice to have somone agree with me, dont spose ur local lol?


Yeah, me too, I get terribly offended when people try to force their opposite opinions on me!

I'm from Northern Ireland, don't think thats local to you!! And cheers, although that pic only highlights the fact that there is no muscle definition in my arms and it has to be sorted lol.


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

taylzo said:


> I'm from Northern Ireland


Me too! And I think that is one reason why I now have a deep distrust of religion


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## thevoice (May 10, 2007)

I belive in Jesus and the Christian view of events.


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## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

nope


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

I'd love to believe in it.. I just can't. Science and the evidence of evolution just points me away from it all. Throughout your life you lose people to illness and tragedy and people call it gods will.. I'm sorry but IMO religion is a humans way of dealing with the pain and fear of death.. I think people need to believe more in people as apposed to someone who you cannot see. The bible is a book, Lord of the Rings is a book.. In a few hundred years people might believe in Frodo!

Sorry if I cause any offence but it's my opinion.


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Nope.

Its made up


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## strongasanox (Mar 14, 2008)

well when im in the sh!t, i normally have a pray to god


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

darwinian evoltionary principle for me not creationism

each to their own tho whatever gives them strength


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't believe in God, I am a very logical person and I can't believe something that has no definite proof. I am not someone who just says NO and thats it, I'm quite philisophical about the whole thing and it is a debate that I have always loved.

Take the universe for example, to me, the concept of it being infinite is so far beyond human comprehension that we can only ever speculate about what it holds or how it cam about which is another key point that gets overlooked in itself

In life everything we know has a beginning and an end and everyone assumes this is the same with the universe but if the idea of being infite is beyond our understanding then maybe there is something that we have no Idea about, ie the concept that maybe there was no start point and in the same way the univers goes on forever, possibly the life of its existence is infinite too.

If this is the case then there is no need for a God, a model of infinity suggest that if you took an infinite amount of monkeys and an infinite amount of time, eventually one would write the complete works of Shakespeare. If the existence of the universe is infinite too then surely the possibility of life as we know it could well have occurred through a matter of chance.

In the same way you look at the world and it's wonders and I find it impossible to belive that it was 'created' by a form of being, again I think we can only speculate about how something so amazing and vast came to existence, and when speculation is the only option I have always liked to think a bit outside the box, hence the above 

On the other hand even after studying A-level biology, an understanding the science between how life is created, the moment I had my son put in my arms, and saw how even though he was so tiny everything was perfect, I couldn't help but think that the process is too complex to have come about by chance, surely there must have been an element of design???


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

just take comfort in the fact that maybe there is, just because "we" dont believe doesnt meant there isnt, or some scientific bollox has swayed you............ you will wished you had believed when you are taking your last breath


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

Dont get me wrong if there is a god and he is as forgiving as he is meant to be then I fully hope that he will forgive my ignorance at the pearly gates and save me from hell, I might take him some growth hormone to sway him though, I mean he must be showing his age by now!!!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Great post Miles mate.. I just think the human brain isn't evolved enough to understand the concept of infinity.. It's like the number system.. Numbers go on forever..- to +. Everything we know has a begining and an end so it's understandable as to why we can't grasp it!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

LOL Miles!


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## N2GB (May 23, 2008)

strongasanox said:


> well when im in the sh!t, i normally have a pray to god


 I was in a bad way 4months ago & I did as above...

Came through that with the results I wanted to have more than anything else...9 years ago my eldest was only 2yrs old & was really ill in hospital,every night after leaving I would find myself asking for him to pull through,,2wks later he came out of hdu 10 days after that he came home.

Who knows if it did any good but at the time it sure made me feel a heck of a lot better


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

I have to admit although I dont believe in god, when I have had very difficult times I find cathedrals very relaxing places to gather my head and I have had a similar thing to the above and I can understand how that feeling can lead to belief


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## 3weights (Jul 22, 2008)

God did not make man,man maketh the god.


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## steelicarus (Jul 24, 2011)

maybe not religious but i am spiritual, was brought up as greek orthodox and went to a catholic primary school - there is somethingthere but i dont think its something easily quantifiable by a book or a ritual


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## wombat68 (Mar 21, 2008)

Not religious in the slightest here and dont think I ever will be.

What others believe in is up to them tho and I will always respect other peoples beliefs.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Britbb said:


> Dont you get it...'physical models of the universe' are a complete load of sh*t. Those physical models are there to help humans understanding of space...what part dont you get that we have just tipped the iceberg...infact its like weve literally only just touched the first atom of the iceberg.
> 
> You are looking at space from a humans perstective. Just say as a fly hsa no perspective of life or death...it simply lives and dies without thinking about death or God or anything else philosophical because it is beyond the flies ability to do so. Hence God is beyond our ability to understand. We can understand a the first atom of the universe just as a well trained monkey might be able to add together some single digit numbers.
> 
> ...


This is a very well made point that has been shot down by a number of people who dont seem to have the ability to think for themselves simply because they have read books on the topic.

As bb said all the models that have been developed are from a human perspective to help our understanding , experimentation backs up and fits the models to date but in a similar way that the theory that the world was flat was backed up by simply observation of looking around. We have only scratched the surface of our understanding of the universe and most agree that the more we find out the more apparent it is how much more there is to know.. we actually know very little

i dont believe in God as there is not one shred of evidence to prove of a gods existence.... No person of any religion can offer any proof, that is the paradox of their believe because proof supersedes faith and the basis of their belief is faith in the existence of something that cannot be proved (.... read Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy to elaborate on this )


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## 6108 (Jun 26, 2007)

'at the end when to find the gods we will know that they are ourselves' In 'How to Build a Flying Saucer: And Other Proposals in Speculative Engineerings', By T. B. Pawlicki


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

My sound naff but my beliefs control my life. Everyday I honestly look at everything and think ''how awesome''....to think that God created such an amazing place as Earth...

I know not everyone has beliefs but I pray that one day everyone will realise the truth...before it's too late.

Hope I don't sound like a Bible basher :laugh:...but I think that to have a belief in God...in another world 'better' than this..where there is no suffering, pain etc..just gives you the most unbelievable feeling of peace inside. To feel this deep inside your soul cannot really be explained..it's something so personal and intense.

I literally pray for everyone to feel that.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> My sound naff but my beliefs control my life. Everyday I honestly look at everything and think ''how awesome''....to think that God created such an amazing place as Earth...
> 
> I know not everyone has beliefs but I pray that one day everyone will realise the truth...before it's too late.
> 
> ...


Too late G4, you sound like a bible basher now


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> Too late G4, you sound like a bible basher now


lol........whatever :tongue:


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> lol........whatever :tongue:


 :tongue: :tongue:


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## junior (Jan 12, 2008)

I think there is something out there but cant really say its a one god more like some sort of alien nation that probaly created man and put him on earth. What with the size of the universe its only reasonable to think that there are other living species of life out there somewhere probaly more advanced than us, who knows?

junior


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## pecman (May 11, 2008)

We should all believe in god look at ronnie coleman he prays before his workouts and look at the size of him,lol

Not so sure about dog the bounty hunter though,he he

I think the bible is a crock of shat, but i do believe and hope there is something after this life, And who knows we could be in hell already!!!


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## acsmyth (Apr 27, 2008)

Yes, been a Christian now for about 2 years. Before was in a bad way, found myself in a church one morning and felt something I couldn't put into words....felt like a sense of peace, like someone or something had released all the angst within me, I was an crying with tears of joy/sadness.

Surreal experience so thats when I became a Christian and dropped alchohol/drugs. Never looked back since....


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

treu belivers in god are peaceful friendly people, fantics give a lot of religous people a bad name. but if you dont believe in god fair enough a slong as your not hurting people ro enforcing your views on anyone else and the same if you do believw in god.


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

I find it very hard to believe in even though i was brought up as a christian and used to go to church every week when i was a child. The whole god made the world in 7 days is a load of balls to be honest.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

lambert said:


> I find it very hard to believe in even though i was brought up as a christian and used to go to church every week when i was a child. The whole god made the world in 7 days is a load of balls to be honest.


i think its more of like a metaphoric thing matey? not sure but 7days is some good going!!


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

lol maybe it is a metaphor i dont know, just that and a load of things from the bible sound like nonense to me. walking on water, turn water to wine, feeding the 5000 and all that.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

it depends wether you believe in supernatural powers or not, i'm sure there is more to heaven and earth than our little phylosophyof it... although a lot of it does seem far fetched, but as far as the supernatural is concerned i am 100% convinced there are other forces at work other than ours


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

God creates adam and eve , tells them to be fruitful and multiply , so did the children of adam and eve reproduce with each other?


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Consider the following (all taken from Ricky Gervais)

Why did god make a snake that could talk in the garden of eden ... surely asking for trouble

Where was god when the snake told eve to eat the apple (god is supposedly omnipotent)

Adan and Eve had two sons .. how did the human race continue thru to the next generation

Light was created after the heaven and earth so suggests he made the universe in the dark ... pretty impressive although he is god ... still think making light first would have been better plannned

..... basically the bible is a work of fiction that is so full of holes its not worth considering as a serious explanation to anything

Religion was a form of control when people were very stupid and allowed the few in power to do what they wanted ... unfortunately people seem reluctant to shed these dated beliefs .. mainly thru insecurity and fear


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

lambert said:


> God creates adam and eve , tells them to be fruitful and multiply , so did the children of adam and eve reproduce with each other?


metaphor for males and females, not two single entities.. i think


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

acsmyth said:


> Yes, been a Christian now for about 2 years. Before was in a bad way, found myself in a church one morning and felt something I couldn't put into words....felt like a sense of peace, like someone or something had released all the angst within me, I was an crying with tears of joy/sadness.
> 
> Surreal experience so thats when I became a Christian and dropped alchohol/drugs. Never looked back since....


That's awesome 

I was brought up Catholic so my life as a child was full of prayers, hymns,Mass, Communion days etc as I am sure anyone else here who went to a faith school could tell you.

I always remember believing but it was only as I grew older that I became aware that what I was feeling wasn't something that I was 'taught' to so to speak but it was actually something that I was feeling deep in my soul.

I always feel that there is no need to even go to Church as God is all around us...if you really truly have faith then it's deep deep inside you and you feel it regardless of where you are or what you are doing.

I felt something similir to your experience about 1 month ago...it wasn't a particularly interesting day and I hadn't been doing anything different than usual and I was alone...but I just remember feeling overcome with such an amazing sense of peace and love...my instict was to reach for a picture of Jesus and I couldn't stop looking into his eyes....the feelings that came over me of a total sense of peace/love/serenity I just cannot put into words....I was just crying and literally praying that the whole world could feel that. It was as if nothing else mattered. Nothing could ever beat that feeling


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

Just to add....after reading peoples arguments against God based on discrepencies in the Bible etc....I just want to say that to some people their faith is what makes them inside...they don't take the Bible word for word because what they feel is something so personal and can't be explained.

I for one am not the type of person to read the Bible every day nor do I go to Church on a regular basis...but I don't feel that I need to coz I know that what I feel cannot be changed and will no be less just coz I don't go to Church or read the Bible everyday. God is everywhere not just a Church or in a book...To have true faith you feel it in your core


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## 3weights (Jul 22, 2008)

ShaunMc,I have to say your ideas on the subject are interesting.

I do not believe in god,I have never seen the evidence to suggest he/she(what does it matter when imaginary) is out there.

I find religion an insult to forward free thinking.

Its a shame that more people are not prepared to open up to critical thinking on the subject.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

just because you have no evidence of something it doesnt mean its not there


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

3weights said:


> ShaunMc,I have to say your ideas on the subject are interesting.
> 
> I do not believe in god,I have never seen the evidence to suggest he/she(what does it matter when imaginary) is out there.
> 
> ...


who says anythings out anywhere?? and how is religion an insult to forward free thinking:

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (*Albert Einstein*)



I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (*Albert Einstein*, 1954)

As we shall see, the concept of time has no meaning before the beginning of the universe. This was first pointed out by St. Augustine. When asked: What did God do before he created the universe? Augustine didn't reply: He was preparing Hell for people who asked such questions. Instead, he said that time was a property of the universe that God created, and that time did not exist before the beginning of the universe. [*Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time (New York: Bantam, 1988),*

On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job! *[stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time (New York: Bantam, 1988), pp. 8-9.]*

One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics. *[stephen Hawking, Black Holes & Baby Universes]*
​
*the most forward free thinking and greatest minds of our time....*


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Kezz said:


> just because you have no evidence of something it doesnt mean its not there


Not sure what you mean by this Kezz. Many people who believe in god use the negative argument to verify his existence ... ie "if you dont believe in god then prove he doesnt exist" .... its impossible to prove the negative

to prove something exists some evidence is needed

"if you believe in god prove his exists" to which most people wont be able too


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> Not sure what you mean by this Kezz. Many people who believe in god use the negative argument to verify his existence ... ie "if you dont believe in god then prove he doesnt exist" .... its impossible to prove the negative
> 
> to prove something exists some evidence is needed
> 
> "if you believe in god prove his exists" to which most people wont be able too


very true shaun, which is why i alwys ahve the view in dont force people to believe, but if someone asks, share with them what you know wether it be negative towards athe argument or positive..


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> Just to add....after reading peoples arguments against God based on discrepencies in the Bible etc....I just want to say that to some people their faith is what makes them inside...they don't take the Bible word for word because what they feel is something so personal and can't be explained.
> 
> I for one am not the type of person to read the Bible every day nor do I go to Church on a regular basis...but I don't feel that I need to coz I know that what I feel cannot be changed and will no be less just coz I don't go to Church or read the Bible everyday. God is everywhere not just a Church or in a book...To have true faith you feel it in your core


but why do you need the belief in a fictional entity to have a feeling of worth and goodness inside. Why not feel this simply because you are you

we look to our childhood and wonder how we ever believed in father christmas .... in hindsight the story of him is so far fetched we wonder how we ever believed it. The belief in god is the same .... all your looking for in your belief in god is the same sense of wonder you felt with father christmas ...


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> but why do you need the belief in a fictional entity to have a feeling of worth and goodness inside. Why not feel this simply because you are you
> 
> we look to our childhood and wonder how we ever believed in father christmas .... in hindsight the story of him is so far fetched we wonder how we ever believed it. The belief in god is the same .... all your looking for in your belief in god is the same sense of wonder you felt with father christmas ...


it doenst give me a feeling inside mate, more keeps me on track and gives me direction in very difficult times...

...father christmas aint real??

..shaun your evil.. just plain evil


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

itraininthedark said:


> ..shaun your evil.. just plain evil


the games up i am the son of Lucifer ... you should have seen it coming mate its written in the bible ..... lol

i better get working now Armageddon is on its way


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> Not sure what you mean by this Kezz. Many people who believe in god use the negative argument to verify his existence ... ie "if you dont believe in god then prove he doesnt exist" .... its impossible to prove the negative
> 
> to prove something exists some evidence is needed
> 
> "if you believe in god prove his exists" to which most people wont be able too


 I know but there isnt a shred of evidence anywhere to prove that a god doesnt exist either.......... how do you know we havent had any evidence?? most people cant see further than with their own two eyes... infact its a completely pointless argument as you either believe or you dont!!! LOL


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> the games up i am the son of Lucifer ... you should have seen it coming mate its written in the bible ..... lol
> 
> i better get working now Armageddon is on its way


 :lol: :lol:


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

ShaunMc said:


> Not sure what you mean by this Kezz. Many people who believe in god use the negative argument to verify his existence ... ie "if you dont believe in god then prove he doesnt exist" .... its impossible to prove the negative
> 
> to prove something exists some evidence is needed
> 
> "if you believe in god prove his exists" to which most people wont be able too


Prove love exists........


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Magic Torch said:


> Prove love exists........


When i look in the mirror, a glazed look comes over my eyes, i get this funny tingling in my tummy.

My heart rate goes up, breathing rate goes up, i get a warm fuzzy sensation..................

Then i come in my pants

Proof enough for me:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

LMFAO You forgot the twiching of the asshole tho........


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Magic Torch said:


> Prove love exists........


many philosophers would say it doesnt exist as a physical reality it is simply an experience. I had a dream last night that i fell off a building , i cant prove that , it was simply an experience. My dream wasnt real and it didnt form part of physical reality.

This is similar to what people think of as GOD ... its not real it is simply an experience that they have that they cant explain .. it is not real nor does it form part of physical reality. because they think they experience god it doesn't mean he exists


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

ShaunMc said:


> many philosophers would say it doesnt exist as a physical reality it is simply an experience. I had a dream last night that i fell off a building , i cant prove that , it was simply an experience. My dream wasnt real and it didnt form part of physical reality.
> 
> This is similar to what people think of as GOD ... its not real it is simply an experience that they have that they cant explain .. it is not real nor does it form part of physical reality. because they think they experience god it doesn't mean he exists


Ah and we get to the point I think...does it need to be real in a physical sense to exist? Because they think they experience god, do they not experience him?


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Magic Torch said:


> Ah and we get to the point I think...does it need to be real in a physical sense to exist? Because they think they experience god, do they not experience him?


because i dreamt i fell off a building doesnt mean i experienced falling of a building .... i see what your saying .... but coz someone experiences something a they decide to call it god doesnt mean he / she exists

what if i believe in the Thor the norse god .. he talks to me and gives me the strength to train and sometimes when i train i feel his strength go through me (im making this up ???) does that mean he exists coz i experince him ... or would it mean im deluded


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

how would you know it was thor though? you only think it is and it maybe someone different, perhaps a reincarnation of scooby doo as we all know he is real??? well i hope he is!! shageeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

ShaunMc said:


> because i dreamt i fell off a building doesnt mean i experienced falling of a building .... i see what your saying .... but coz someone experiences something a they decide to call it god doesnt mean he / she exists
> 
> what if i believe in the Thor the norse god .. he talks to me and gives me the strength to train and sometimes when i train i feel his strength go through me (im making this up ???) does that mean he exists coz i experince him ... or would it mean im deluded


LOL yes he exists! He exists to help you understand how to get through your gym session! That is my point (very bad at explaining lol) If God, or Thor - or Scooby doo Kezz  , helps your to understand, get through something be that training, a death or anything else then they are real enough for me!

Sooooo subjective tho....I understand your points tho mate


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Magic Torch said:


> LOL yes he exists! He exists to help you understand how to get through your gym session! That is my point (very bad at explaining lol) If God, or Thor - or Scooby doo Kezz  , helps your to understand, get through something be that training, a death or anything else then they are real enough for me!
> 
> Sooooo subjective tho....I understand your points tho mate


i totally understand what your saying mate and i see why some need that belief ... its when that belief effects others that i dont understand

throughout history and even today how many people have died in the name of religion or there belief in god ... even recently a woman was jailed for calling a teddy bear Mohammad. A way to find inner peace is one thing but the cause of most wars in human history is another

:laugh:


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

Kezz said:


> I know but there isnt a shred of evidence anywhere to prove that a god doesnt exist either.......... how do you know we havent had any evidence?? most people cant see further than with their own two eyes... infact its a completely pointless argument as you either believe or you dont!!! LOL


Exacto!


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> the games up i am the son of Lucifer ... you should have seen it coming mate its written in the bible ..... lol
> 
> i better get working now Armageddon is on its way


Even Lucifer believes in God! In fact he was God's favourite Angel until he fell.


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

I believe, i have personal reasons for this. I not sure what is exactly there for us after death but it's something.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> Even Lucifer believes in God! In fact he was God's favourite Angel until he fell.


 i truly believe you are a member of the GOD SQUAD lol :laugh:


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> i truly believe you are a member of the GOD SQUAD lol :laugh:


 

Tis the truth


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

KEZZ- im looking forward to carrying on this debate with you next to a pool in vegas in a few weeks as im a little bothered by you saying some folk are short sighted for not being believers.

i have a very complicated view of us as humans on this earth and what makes it all tick, and ive had some nasty stuff happen in my family but in no way have i ever thought of god or heaven it just doesnt click with me i believe in science in the creation of the earth but as complicated as we are as human beings there is so much to the human spirit than is obvious,

till the pool-side my friend, you can buy the beers:beer:


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Yes I do believe.
> 
> Well, how about a couple of things to ponder:
> 
> ...


I can see here that you have been studying your christian science, so in someways you are no different to people who choose to study conventional science and discuss their findings. You state that "Why do atheists only point to science and logic as it suits their beliefs?", is this not what you are doing by picking out statements you have learned in your lessons to back up your theory?

Each to their own i say, if you are a believer, Good i am happy for you, however why is it that:-

Believers always feel the need to convert non believers, and look upon non believers as not leading a true and fullfulling life.

I would like to state that i have many religious friends and would like to think of myself as not being biased regarding religion, however from personal experiences with someone who is a "devoted christian" of the new era of churches, has given me cause for concern with the their outlook on people who do not live a "Christian Life". I will quote a conversation I overheard "I dont want to hear about your sexuality in here, if you need councelling you can come and talk to me" (the person she was talking to was gay).

This person believed that this gay female could accept god and through re-training could stop being gay and lead a christian life:laugh:

Oh but it was also perfectly fine for peadophiles to find god and stop being abusers and lead a fullfilling christian life at this particular church? :whistling:

Why can you not be content with life and just accept that people are different for one good reason, Diversity and the Future, whatever it may be.

Non believers are not bad, they just don't want to be recruited and all they live for is peace and happyness in the world, and i believe that we are happier and more content than christians as we live for ourselves in this beautifull amazing world.

:thumbup1:


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

nigs66 said:


> I can see here that you have been studying your christian science, so in someways you are no different to people who choose to study conventional science and discuss their findings. You state that "Why do atheists only point to science and logic as it suits their beliefs?", is this not what you are doing by picking out statements you have learned in your lessons to back up your theory?
> 
> Each to their own i say, if you are a believer, Good i am happy for you, however why is it that:-
> 
> ...


i think if you believe in god it doesnt mean you cant lead a fruitfull and full life saying non believers have more fun is being silly!

What makes one person happy doesnt do it for another,and its not only christians who believe in God.

At the end of the day i think you do or you dont but i cant understand why people require proof,thats the whole point.............Faith!!

I do believe but not too bothered if anyone else does'nt,im sure my ancestors wer'nt monkeys or fish though


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

The greatest trick the Devil ever performed was convincing man that he doesn't exist...


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

Although I'm no christian I do believe in God, although sometimes when you hear of things like young kids dying or diseases like cancer it makes you wonder why God would let this happen, I mean why aren't the rapists, paedophile's and murderers wiped out instead of innocent young kids?



nigs66 said:


> I would like to state that i have many religious friends and would like to think of myself as not being biased regarding religion, however from personal experiences with someone who is a "devoted christian" of the new era of churches, has given me cause for concern with the their outlook on people who do not live a "Christian Life". I will quote a conversation I overheard "I dont want to hear about your sexuality in here, if you need councelling you can come and talk to me" (the person she was talking to was gay).
> 
> This person believed that this gay female could accept god and through re-training could stop being gay and lead a christian life:laugh:


I heard this being said by a leading MP from northern ireland assembly too


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

cellaratt said:


> The greatest trick the Devil ever performed was convincing man that he doesn't exist...


i like it!! i watched a programme about the devil and it was going on about the evil of the 20th century and apparently the most evil thing is the WEB! the number of the beast is used by nearly all humans in developed countries and this is WWW. at the beginning of every web address........... the letters WWW represent old hebrew numerals or some ancient biblical language of 666....... the number of the BEAST.

sounds right to me,

look at all the evil things and depraved things the net is used for????


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

nigs66 said:


> KEZZ- im looking forward to carrying on this debate with you next to a pool in vegas in a few weeks


You had to slip that in didn't you.....git, not jealous at all :tongue:

Make sure you and Kezz get plenty of pics!



nigs66 said:


> I can see here that you have been studying your christian science, so in someways you are no different to people who choose to study conventional science and discuss their findings. You state that "Why do atheists only point to science and logic as it suits their beliefs?", is this not what you are doing by picking out statements you have learned in your lessons to back up your theory?
> 
> Each to their own i say, if you are a believer, Good i am happy for you, however why is it that:-
> 
> ...


Oi guys we are supposed to be 'roid heads' can you all stop with these sensible posts! Your giving this forum a bad name, we might even have a thread about gardening next 

Good post, I am a christian but I would never talk about it to someone who doesn't want to listen. I am friends with Hindus, Seeks, RC's and one Scientologist (could go on all day lol), but we never talk about anything on faith....I might ask my mate about fasting etc but thats just because I find it interesting.

I like your last paragraph tho. Some people cant stand diversity, they feel the need to explain everything! Scientists and artists will never agree!


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Magic Torch said:


> You had to slip that in didn't you.....git, not jealous at all :tongue:
> 
> Make sure you and Kezz get plenty of pics!
> 
> ...


thats my rant about god over im of gardening now


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're a c*nt


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

Magic Torch said:


> Prove love exists........


i have the urge to slip it in when my mates doin stiff legs... is that not love?? :tongue:


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

ARNIE said:


> i like it!! i watched a programme about the devil and it was going on about the evil of the 20th century and apparently the most evil thing is the WEB! the number of the beast is used by nearly all humans in developed countries and this is WWW. at the beginning of every web address........... the letters WWW represent old hebrew numerals or some ancient biblical language of 666....... the number of the BEAST.
> 
> sounds right to me,
> 
> look at all the evil things and depraved things the net is used for????


i have mate actually who's quite disturbed (old doorman mate) in the fact that he belives he is the reincarnation of the new devil on earth... he's an asian bloke 6'5 24stone bodybuilder/boxer... hes riddled with stab wounds and has been shot three times, once in leg, once in stomach and once in the bloody head... he has a metal plate pn the the ritght top quarter of his skull..... he is off his head.. some of his quotes;

You wanna dance with the devil COME DANCE WITH ME

You cant kill me!! you caaaant kill me!! im not of this world!!

When i get to hell im gonna get the devil in head lock, break his neck and stick his tail up his @rse

if i was a mortal human like you id be afraid of me..

theres many more but there quite disturbing but unforgettable, and eerie

He doesnt get much work on the doors now days, mainly because the guy comes across as mentally disturbed.. but i dont think he'd say these things if he had actually seen the devil..


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

itraininthedark said:


> i have mate actually who's quite disturbed (old doorman mate) in the fact that he belives he is the reincarnation of the new devil on earth... he's an asian bloke 6'5 24stone bodybuilder/boxer... hes riddled with stab wounds and has been shot three times, once in leg, once in stomach and once in the bloody head... he has a metal plate pn the the ritght top quarter of his skull..... he is off his head.. some of his quotes;
> 
> You wanna dance with the devil COME DANCE WITH ME
> 
> ...


Blimey!!

Yeah I agree with the the last statement you made...think he needs to experience an NDE (near death experience) to the dark side and think that would shut him up :tongue:


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

religion - based around folklore and used to control people by those in power or those wishing to gain power.... its just another school of thought, just like science ..... not THE be all and end all as some believe in my opinion..... and all about money and power

however as as student of history its very interesting as most religious events are intertwined with historical incidents and I would dearly love to know whats on the rest of the dead sea scrolls that the israelis have locked away ... especially as the bible is basically an edited highlights and collection of only a portion of these texts....

people in a moment of need look for something beyond the realms of normality, a belief gives someone purpose (which is good) and the basic tenants of ALL religions are essentially be nice to one another - obviously this is abused, look only at wars or acts of violence in the name of religion, look at how the Vatican become so rich and powerful and how other countries poor huge amounts of money into things like gold plated temples/mosques when that money could be far better spent - But it keeps the popualce happy and in check (thus ensuring loyalty and payment of taxes etc)

before the 'modern religions' though no one worshipped a single god but rather a collection off them or even before that the earth, wnd, sea etc....

if you belive or not i guess doesnt matter as it cant be totally proven in either way , personally I would have to say no .... but if it enables someone to be a better person then cool - believe what you want to.... if it then influences others or causes harm then its a bad thing


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ARNIE said:


> i watched a programme about the devil and it was going on about the evil of the 20th century and apparently the most evil thing is the WEB! the number of the beast is used by nearly all humans in developed countries and this is WWW. at the beginning of every web address........... the letters WWW represent old hebrew numerals or some ancient biblical language of 666....... the number of the BEAST.
> 
> sounds right to me,
> 
> look at all the evil things and depraved things the net is used for????


Exactly...also the following which was told in the Bible book of Revelations when it was written...again it is about the mark of the beast (d***l)

Very eerie!!



"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, freeman and slave, to receive a mark on (or in*) his right hand or on (or in*) his forehead, so that no-one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom, if anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person and it's number is 666." Rev 13:16-18

*Look at any barcode on ANYTHING that you buy and you will see the same mark*
​









Enough said
​


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

cellaratt said:


> The greatest trick the Devil ever performed was convincing man that he doesn't exist...


Spot on!


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> Spot on!


thats a quote from the film "the usual suspects" Kevin Specey says is (or Keyser Soze) when being interviewed

having read some of the crap about the devil, the www and bar code conspiracy theories im surprised some of you leave the house or more accurately im surprised your ALLOWED to leave the house


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> Exactly...also the following which was told in the Bible book of Revelations when it was written...again it is about the mark of the beast (d***l)
> 
> Very eerie!!
> 
> ...


and why exactly would the devil do this ....... ???????? some form of subliminal advertising or is he on commission with every product bearing a bar code

please tell me you dont really believe this stuff


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Nice to know the devil is keeping up with all these new technological breakthroughs...

I love Bill Hicks <3


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

I'm sorry but are you guys serious. What a load of b0llox! PMSL!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

may the devil and his demons infest your anus luke.... its already starting to happen as garry glitter is moving next door to you aint he....


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

and he has a bar code stamped on his ass with your name on it, lol


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

which he slipped in between your cheeks when he held you as a child... luke did gary glitter sniff you or stare into your eyes when he held you? do you remember it? :tongue:


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

:lol: :lol: look what i found......... :whistling:


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

itraininthedark said:


> :lol: :lol: look what i found......... :whistling:


Ohhh seee....your life was mapped out before you knew it!!!! :laugh::laugh:

Pmsl at the pic


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> and why exactly would the devil do this ....... ???????? some form of subliminal advertising or is he on commission with every product bearing a bar code
> 
> please tell me you dont really believe this stuff


Hey I didn't make this up :confused1: :innocent: ...remember that Revelations was written long before any barcode was 'invented'


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> Hey I didn't make this up :confused1: :innocent: ...remember that Revelations was written long before any barcode was 'invented'


my shopping bill came to £66.6 the other day does that mean the devil was working for ASDA

A chic down the gym weighs 66.6 kg does that mean she is the devils daughter

Take any random number and it will come up time and time again in odd places ... if you consider we use numbers everyday and there are 6 billion people on the planet it aint really that spooky is it

believing in god is one thing but this is where it all goes wrong with these crack pot ideas

anyway im off as the woman down the road is 66 and lives at number 6 and me and the neighbours have decided she is a witch and in league with lucifer and so are off to burn her at the stake

:cursing:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Well IMO if there is a GOD, and he supposedly designed\made us, then he also built in anabolic\androgenic receptors on purpose.

He also gave us the ability to produce sythentic testosterone, gh and other PEDS

Stands to reason therefore we are designed to be geared up to the eyeballs.

So in effect im fulfilling GODS will

PRAISE THE LORD:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And later this week i might do some more of the lords work


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

the devil made love to my anus last night while i was watching Passion of christ


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## 3weights (Jul 22, 2008)

MaKaVeLi said:


> the devil made love to my anus last night while i was watching Passion of christ


ha ha,But did you enjoy it? 

I have a question for the theists,if one is to believe in god then one must believe in a creator right?

Then my question is who made god?

And who made him/her and so on and so on.....


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

i like religion, lovely opiate for the blind masses,keeps them in order,good morale compass.it's okay that some people need to believe in a higher power to have meaning in their life. it's okay that they just want to pray and hope that theres something more than just being put 6 feet under or burnt. i don't believe there is.

why would a just god allow evil? human free will right? so he's powerless to do anything or just apathetic..remind me why i'd worship him..


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> my shopping bill came to £66.6 the other day does that mean the devil was working for ASDA
> 
> A chic down the gym weighs 66.6 kg does that mean she is the devils daughter
> 
> ...


lmao :laugh:.....quick someone pick that dummy up off the floor!! :tongue:


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

I believe in god , never used to but i'd say if you dont have any faith in your self but have faith in god it helps alot of people through alot of things. I believe in god but not religion.

On the case of god letting people suffer , well isnt that free will? The suffering is'nt cause by god , its caused by other people =/

I think alot of people like to blame god because its the easy to blame god than accept things the way they are ie diseases like cancer =/

Sh!t happens unfortunetly =/ Life goes on though.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> lmao :laugh:.....quick someone pick that dummy up off the floor!! :tongue:


ahh thats just a disappointing answer .... i thought this was a debate about an issue at least come back with an amusing answer thats intelligent rather than the playground approach ..... :confused1:

think i will stick to the threads about training and gear ... much less controversy lol


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

God created paedophillia....?

God programmed us to have the capacity to create meth,knives, guns.... Jade Goody?

He honestly can't exist or he is satan himself.


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> ahh thats just a disappointing answer .... i thought this was a debate about an issue at least come back with an amusing answer thats intelligent rather than the playground approach ..... :confused1:
> 
> think i will stick to the threads about training and gear ... much less controversy lol


lol....well I can only see one person getting miffed about this topic :confused1:

Anyways...it's obvious that everyone is going to have differing opinions about this topic and everyone will give their 10p worth but I don't think it's fair to get annoyed just coz another persons opinion is different :confused1:

We are all adults and we all have our views....to us that have beliefs then we have our own ideas on this and at the end of the day all this 'scientific' argument malarky won't change that  the same way that those who don't believe won't be made to if they don't even give it a try or come up with any excuse not to look beyond what is in front of their own eyes.

It's fair enough if people don't have beliefs but whether it sounds nerdy or not I will still continue to pray that others find the same feelings of peace and compassion that I think is multiplied when you have faith in something or someone beyond this world.


----------



## 6108 (Jun 26, 2007)

very good g4


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Girl4 said:


> lol....well I can only see one person getting miffed about this topic :confused1:
> 
> Anyways...it's obvious that everyone is going to have differing opinions about this topic and everyone will give their 10p worth but I don't think it's fair to get annoyed just coz another persons opinion is different :confused1:
> 
> ...


having an opinion about a topic dont mean im miffed i was just joining in and offering opinions.........

maybe your just too used to people smiling sweetly and agreeing with you Girl 4 ...... sorry if you take debate as being miffed

what you say is true you wont change peoples opinions or views .... so why contribute to the thread ????? maybe its coz debate is interesting

shame you had to take such an approach and make asumptions about me


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

But Shaun, you have already admitted that you are the Devil!! LOL


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Just seen those pics!! LOL u f()ckers.


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## LAX (Aug 27, 2008)

there is no geezer called GOD,we humans are really non physical beings experiencing a physical life. there are countless planes of existence, some that cant even be explained or understood by our conscious waking mind. only our true self or soul can comprehend this.

when you hear some nutter saying he has found god, basically he has found himself, he has

connected with his unconscious soul,


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> thats a quote from the film "the usual suspects" Kevin Specey says is (or Keyser Soze) when being interviewed
> 
> having read some of the crap about the devil, the www and bar code conspiracy theories im surprised some of you leave the house or more accurately im surprised your ALLOWED to leave the house


It being a quote from a movie doesn't make it less relevant to the conversation...Not sure where the line originated but I doubt the writer of the movie was the first one to say it...


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

LAX said:


> there is no geezer called GOD,we humans are really non physical beings experiencing a physical life. there are countless planes of existence, some that cant even be explained or understood by our conscious waking mind. only our true self or soul can comprehend this.
> 
> when you hear some nutter saying he has found god, basically he has found himself, he has
> 
> connected with his unconscious soul,


Welcome to the board Lax...you should fit in nicely...


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Kezz said:


> But Shaun, you have already admitted that you are the Devil!! LOL


Fcuk i wasnt supposed to reveal my identity ........ oh well now you know is there anything you have always wanted ...... it will only cost you your soul :cool2:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

cellaratt said:


> It being a quote from a movie doesn't make it less relevant to the conversation...Not sure where the line originated but I doubt the writer of the movie was the first one to say it...


never said it did ............ i was just giving some info about the quote for those who might have been interested


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

lax i'd just like to know where you heard about the different planes of existance? watched a few things and possible believe that myself matey.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Truewarrior1 said:


> i'd just like to know where you heard about the different planes of existance?


Dude...........

I seen these in my lifetime, they mainly are on Friday's...........................lol


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

haha hackskii you old boy  i trust everything is good!


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## paramuscle (Aug 28, 2008)

I think of this in the same light as I would forced attrition. I mean to say that if you don't believe in God, that's your business and your prerogative but my question is, "what if you're wrong"?

Statistically 95% of the population of the world believes in some form of higher power. IF I am wrong and we die and that is the end, I have lost nothing.........If I am right and God does exist and denying Him condemns you to a life of suffering for eternity, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution. Self preservation is an instinct I possess and it just seems to me that it is better to hope than to deny it.

I am a very educated man and I think about how I came to believe in God and Christianity and it was not because someone told me to, it was not because of a preacher. I studied and pondered over the subject for a very long time and came to the conclusion after a careful examination of the facts. It is sort of like being on a jury panel and having to decide a murder trial. I was not present at the time of the crime so I have to listen to all the evidence and weigh my decision on the side that is most convincing. For me, it was Christianity. If you don't believe, that's your business and I would never deny anyone that right or step on anyone's toes about it but, I have educated myself and THEN made a decision that was not based on popular culture or thought. This would be my hope for everyone, to weight the evidence and then make a decision. It could mean a lot in the end.

~PM


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

3weights said:


> ha ha,But did you enjoy it?
> 
> I have a question for the theists,if one is to believe in god then one must believe in a creator right?
> 
> ...


some things are eternal


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

Greekgoddess said:


> A life of suffering for eternity sounds rather like my cutting diet at the moment.....!
> 
> Come on, isn't there enough suffering in this life to put a stop to, rather than worrying about the next one?
> 
> More lives have been lost for the cause of religion than any other reason.


..wouldnt blame it on religion, id blame it more on people who twist what it says for there own benefits and enforce these views on others..


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

ShaunMc said:


> and why exactly would the devil do this ....... ???????? some form of subliminal advertising or is he on commission with every product bearing a bar code
> 
> please tell me you dont really believe this stuff


Eugh, can't rep you again


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

megatron said:


> Eugh, can't rep you again


no worries mate the thought was there ha ha


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

And Marlborgh **** are made by the KKK.....LMAO


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Girl4 said:


> lol....well I can only see one person getting miffed about this topic :confused1:
> 
> Anyways...it's obvious that everyone is going to have differing opinions about this topic and everyone will give their 10p worth but I don't think it's fair to get annoyed just coz another persons opinion is different :confused1:
> 
> ...


Its things like this that annoy me, why because you dont believe do you need some "preacher" praying for you???

Im quite happy myself without your prayers.

And why do i have no feelings of "peace and compassion" just because i dont agree with your views.

Have you ever thought that maybe we are more at peace with ourselves as we dont have any"fictional entity to please"

As for believing in GOD, one of my favourite scenes ever from a movie is this one form the film PITCH BLACK with Vin diesel

*HOLY MAN* -Shall we pray together? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

*VIN DIESEL* -It is pointless.

<o></o>

*HOLY MAN* - Because you do not believe in God<o></o>

does not mean God does not believe in you -- <o></o>

*VIN DIESEL* -Think someone can spend half their life<o></o>

in the slam...

...with a horse bit in their mouth<o></o>

and not believe? <o></o>

Think he could start out<o></o>

in some trash bin...<o></o>

...with an umbilical cord<o></o>

wrapped around his neck and not believe?<o></o>

<o></o>

Got it all wrong, Holy Man.<o></o>

<o></o>

I absolutely believe in God.<o></o>

And I absolutely hate the mother fcuker.<o></o>


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I put god in the same group as father chrismas, fortune tellers, david blane... Elaborate cons - with no evidence after two thousand years +

When you die you don't go anywhere - you just die - end of - oblivion.

Before the religious ask me to prove anything, I don't have to. I'm not the one saying that there is a big dude with a white beard who created everything and then getting the hump when someone says bollox.


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

ShaunMc said:


> thats a quote from the film "the usual suspects" Kevin Specey says is (or Keyser Soze) when being interviewed
> 
> having read some of the crap about the devil, the www and bar code conspiracy theories im surprised some of you leave the house or more accurately im surprised your ALLOWED to leave the house


 why do you read crap?


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

crap reading..a smelly affair


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

megatron said:


> I put god in the same group as father chrismas, fortune tellers, david blane... Elaborate cons - with no evidence after two thousand years +
> 
> When you die you don't go anywhere - you just die - end of - oblivion.
> 
> Before the religious ask me to prove anything, I don't have to. I'm not the one saying that there is a big dude with a white beard who created everything and then getting the hump when someone says bollox.


 mega the above can be proved fake!

and you are the one saying there is no big dude and no after life now prove this


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

ARNIE said:


> mega the above can be proved fake!
> 
> and you are the one saying there is no big dude and no after life now prove this


i have said this before its not for the disbeliever to prove the negative (its impossible) ... its for the believer to prove the positive

if i said i had been abducted by aliens its not for you to disprove its for me to prove .... you cant prove a negative belief

the reason i keep reading crap is coz u keep writing it lol


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

this is going around in circles people!! and it always will - how wars begin!! its best everyone keep there own theological theories to themselves


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2008)

Have to say no.

'God' in my eyes is the all seeing all knowing entity that created the heavens and the earth. I do not belive in this.

I wont comment on religion as it normally lands me in a big mess.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

ARNIE said:


> mega the above can be proved fake!
> 
> and you are the one saying there is no big dude and no after life now prove this


I will give my house to anyone who can prove the existance of god.

*waits*

*tumbleweed*


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> I will give my house to anyone who can prove the existance of god.
> 
> *waits*
> 
> *tumbleweed*


it can be proved by you, to yourself.. its hard to explanation, but i have no quim with anyone who dont believe..


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm a reasonable person, if there was any logical evidence or real argument I would believe/consider. I don't believe that there is definately no god - I believe that it is possible, just that if it were, there would be proof.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> I'm a reasonable person, if there was any logical evidence or real argument I would believe/consider. I don't believe that there is definately no god - I believe that it is possible, just that if it were, there would be proof.


in the business im working for during the day, we had to take out an insurance policy for a plant we've just built insuring us for almost everything from extreme weather to asteroids, to UFO's or as written by the actual insurance company itself in the policy - *Insured against events and situations that can be deemed as an act or acts of god.* <-- i was confused when i red this. but its true and its not new.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

itraininthedark said:


> in the business im working for during the day, we had to take out an insurance policy for a plant we've just built insuring us for almost everything from extreme weather to asteroids, to UFO's or as written by the actual insurance company itself in the policy - *Insured against events and situations that can be deemed as an act or acts of god.* <-- i was confused when i red this. but its true and its not new.


lol yes, don't the religious people here find that abuse of religion insulting?


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

All I want to say is that I think it's good how everyone has their own opinions and that I guess time will tell :confused1:

Hope my opinions personally didn't make anyone feel :cursing: as I don't want that to happen!...I know we all have our own views etc 

Anyway....off subject and nothing at all to do with this thread but it's a beautiful day today outside (well...it's not raining at least  ) and think I might go and wash the car!

Cya!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

Girl4 said:


> it's a beautiful day today outside (well...it's not raining at least  ) and think I might go and wash the car!
> 
> Cya!


i cant see outside.. but il take your word for it


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## LAX (Aug 27, 2008)

Truewarrior1 said:


> lax i'd just like to know where you heard about the different planes of existance? watched a few things and possible believe that myself matey.


tbh i dont know where, basicly i myself am 'connected' to my soul,

and when information comes into my being i instinctly know that to be

either a load of bollox or true to the case, on top of that i have had many

astral projections, where i have experienced many different non physical worlds, when we die we go to whatever plane we are in vibration with,

most people are so attached to this physical planet earth and there human body so when they die they go to a non physical replica of the earth where they will meet up with there loved ones,religious people may be in 'heaven'. evil murderers may be in 'hell'. and im afraid that those muslim suicide bombers will probably have all those nice things that they expected.its all about your thoughts and what you believe in,and your current state of mind at death. however, when

you finally come to terms with who you really are then you are able to

move on to different planes of existence, or even return to earth in a fetus. death is only the end of your flesh and bones, so enjoy your current time

here on planet earth....now im off to the fookin gym to release some physical energy


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

LAX said:


> tbh i dont know where, basicly i myself am 'connected' to my soul,
> 
> and when information comes into my being i instinctly know that to be
> 
> ...


Give me a ****ing break...


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

LAX said:


> tbh i dont know where, basicly i myself am 'connected' to my soul,
> 
> and when information comes into my being i instinctly know that to be
> 
> ...


Think that's a really interesting post....Heaven as we know it...or should I say from a Christian point of view is like a more beautiful, sin free, pain free 'replica' of this Earth now ....after all our Earth IS really beautiful...it's the people and their sins that make it insufferable.

All religions believe different things whether it's 7 Heavens and 7 Earths...this one being a neutral world where we decide which way we are gonna go....there are so many takes on things but as with everything, peoples beliefs differ slightly...at the end of the day the basis of most religions is the same God...surely that counts for something.


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

ZzzZzzZZzzzZZZzzzzzZzzZZZZzz Please.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2008)

LAX said:


> tbh i dont know where, basicly i myself am 'connected' to my soul,
> 
> and when information comes into my being i instinctly know that to be
> 
> ...


 Nice post, hope that happens:thumbup1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont mind people praying for me, any of you guys or girls that want to do so I would appreciate it.


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

hackskii said:


> I dont mind people praying for me, any of you guys or girls that want to do so I would appreciate it.


I pray for you guys and gals all the time, even if you don't want it...gives me peace inside...


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

read richard dawkins the god delusion

regardless of yourcurrent stanpoint-its a good book


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

Thought this was cool

C8aFxk0aUuU[/MEDIA]]


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## paramuscle (Aug 28, 2008)

megatron said:


> I will give my house to anyone who can prove the existance of god.
> 
> *waits*
> 
> *tumbleweed*


Try looking into the writing of Favius Josephus. He was a first century historian who lived from A.D 37 until some time after A.D. 100. He was not a Christian and was tasked with keeping the records. He wrote in *The Antiquities of the Jews, *3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Some people still argue the validity of the writings but they still exist and the fact that they do exist should give pause.

Other works outside of religion also cite the life of Jesus including The emperor Nero's decision to blame the fire that destroyed Rome in A.D. 64 on the Christians. The Roman historian Tacitus wrote this, Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . .

The interesting point for me is that he says that the origin for the term, Christians, comes from the man named Christus........the translation for Christ, and he suffered the extreme penalty which is death at the hands of Pilate.

Pliny the Younger was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around A.D. 112 and he reported DIRECTLY to the emperor Trajan. He also was not a Christian but rather was tasked with the interrogation and persecution of Christians. He was charged basically with the extermination of everyone accused of Christianity and in one of his letters to the Emperor, he writes this, They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.

Pliny gives us insight from the first century as to the practices of early Christians. This is occurring about 70 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. Not much time has passed and people are believing the tale of Christ enough to die for it? Why would anyone let themselves be persecuted and murdered for a lie that some of them quite possibly might have actually even witnessed?

The Babylonian Talmud also speaks of the man known in the rabbinical writings as Yeshu, which is the Hebrew pronunciation of the name of Jesus. It states, On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald . . . cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy.

The concept of Judaism does not allow that Christ was or is the Messiah. Why would they reference him so? They attribute the things he did to sorcery as some here do also. What is interesting to me is why? Why bother saying that he was a sorcerer if it was all a lie? Why not just come out and say that these things did not happen? My answer is that in the first century, there were still people alive who had seen and experienced Jesus and the works he performed, they knew it to be the truth and you can't go around calling them all a bunch of liars so you have to come up with another explanation, magic.........

Lucian of Samosata was a 2nd century satirist or comedian of sorts and he writes this in the 2nd century, The Christians . . . worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . [it] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.

Obviously he is poking fun at the Christians so we know from that fact alone that he is probably not a Christian. He does however mention that Jesus was a man which gives some more evidence that Jesus was real. He also indicates that his followers thought very highly of him and that they worshiped him. He doesn't ever use the name Jesus but it is very clear if you read it all, who he is referring to.

All of these references come from works outside of religion, from people who were not religious. That fact intrigues me very much. If you want more, I can literally do this all day long but since it is getting a bit long winded, I will resign myself to the fact that I have presented sufficient evidence to make a good argument for the life of Christ being documented. Can anyone dispute these claims?

Also, the color and the emphasis are mine............

~PM


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

paramuscle said:


> Try looking into the writing of Favius Josephus. He was a first century historian who lived from A.D 37 until some time after A.D. 100. He was not a Christian and was tasked with keeping the records. He wrote in *The Antiquities of the Jews, *3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
> 
> Some people still argue the validity of the writings but they still exist and the fact that they do exist should give pause.
> 
> ...


impressed with the level of research you have done but fail to see how any of this proves the existance of god which is what Megatron asked for ????

in may prove the existence of a man called Jesus which most people would accept but not the existence of god


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## 3weights (Jul 22, 2008)

Is it correct in saying Christians believe that god is a magical being,a 3 in 1 character?.

If that is so,then to christians there mere fact that jesus lived is enough to suggest that god exists also!

The txt by paramuscle is unconvincing,is does not prove a god,only jesus.


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## 6108 (Jun 26, 2007)

Here's a quote from a film which you might find interesting:

Person A 'Who is God?'

Person B 'Ok, How can I explain this?.. You know when you wish for for something real badly? when you are desperate and in dire need of help? And you ask, hope and pray for this help?'

Person A 'Yeah'

Person B 'Well God is the guy who ignores you!'


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

hotelcalifornia said:


> Here's a quote from a film which you might find interesting:
> 
> Person A 'Who is God?'
> 
> ...


What a nice thought:confused1: 

Well, i dont speak for anyone else, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i am not trying to push mine onto anyone else's.

I believe in GOD.


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## paramuscle (Aug 28, 2008)

What I was illustrating was the fact that the life of Jesus can be proven, in as much as any historical figure could be proven. We take the word of the scholars when they describe ancient Rome to us and yet none of us have seen it. Why then do we feel the need to question the authority of the Bible? The answer is simple, it is because it contains thoughts and images that we can not understand. There are things in the Bible that seem unbelievable and our human minds can't grasp the idea of these things because they are too far out in left field.

As far as proving God, I am quite sure I actually did that. By your own admission, I proved to you the life of the man named Jesus so the only question remaining is, "was he who he claimed to be"? "Was he the son of God, God incarnate"? The answer is written down if you will but look for it. The works he did were attributed to magic, he appeared to many people (over 500) after he was crucified. Granted there are many who would use theories such as the Swoon Theory (google it) to try and explain what happened but they are not convincing. They don't ever come out and say that it didn't happen, they try to explain it in human terms. Once you accept that he di these "magical' works, there is really only one possibility. And, for Christians, proving that Jesus was real, is also proving that God was real...............As for what Most people would accept, you may find this hard to believe but you are in the minority .........most people do believe in God, especially when they are at the end. In my line of work, I have seen it many times.......they swear that they don't but they always end up praying.

I have not been angry or bitter or tried to be ugly in any way, A question was asked and I have responded to it in hopes that some would find it helpful and enlightening. If you do not then I apologize but the truth is the truth, no matter who doesn't like it.

*In the seventeenth century the mathematician Blaise Pascal formulated his infamous pragmatic argument for belief in God in Pensées. The argument runs as follows:*

*
*

*
If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation).*

*
*

*
How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God. There have been several objections to the wager: that a person cannot simply will himself to believe something that is evidently false to him; that the wager would apply as much to belief in the wrong God as it would to disbelief in all gods, leaving the the believer in any particular god in the same situation as the atheist or agnostic; that God would not reward belief in him based solely on hedging one's bets; and so on.*

I always like Pascal's wager the best and the preceding text came from

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html

~PM


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## Graystone (Sep 1, 2007)

I don't believe in God


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## paramuscle (Aug 28, 2008)

That's OK .............. he still believes in you.

~PM


----------



## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

paramuscle said:


> That's OK .............. he still believes in you.
> 
> ~PM


PMSL


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

paramuscle said:


> What I was illustrating was the fact that the life of Jesus can be proven, in as much as any historical figure could be proven.


Yeha that's not near proving the existance of God...



> We take the word of the scholars when they describe ancient Rome to us and yet none of us have seen it.


Well no apart from all the ruins, the colleseum etc...



> Why then do we feel the need to question the authority of the Bible? The answer is simple, it is because it contains thoughts and images that we can not understand. There are things in the Bible that seem unbelievable and our human minds can't grasp the idea of these things because they are too far out in left
> 
> field.


i.e. a load of bollocks, you believe what you want mate - I need proof of something before I can start to think it's true - just because it's written in a book means nothing to me. In that case Lord of the Rings must also be true... lol



> If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation).
> 
> How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God.


So you believe in God to hedge your bets? That I can actually understand.


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

megatron said:


> Yeha that's not near proving the existance of God...
> 
> Well no apart from all the ruins, the colleseum etc...
> 
> ...


couldnt have put it better myself .....

isnt gambling a sin though .... strange that the religious make up their rules to suit their purpose .... hold up a second, thats the only way the bible makes sense ha ha


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

INFIDELS!! im coming for you!! :devil2: :devil2:


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

its a good job this thread isnt about allah other wise you guys will have had your heads cut off with a rusty pen knife by now, LOL


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> its a good job this thread isnt about allah other wise you guys will have had your heads cut off with a rusty pen knife by now, LOL


Same thing, different name.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

go on then start calling allah a joke then!!!! i dare ya


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

and the koran a load off bollox!!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

Kezz said:


> go on then start calling allah a joke then!!!! i dare ya


fcuk that right off.. look what happened to that salman rushtee guy, hes got every single muslim in the world after him..


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> go on then start calling allah a joke then!!!! i dare ya


I wouldnt say that about any god, it's offensive to those who do believe. But I will happily say that I don't think it's real. As for religious text being a load of bollocks, yes and no... Do they give any proof of the existance of a god, no, not at all, but they do teach people (thick people) what right and wrong is, that is their value. But I feel in this day and age we should know what's right and wrong anyway.


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

As this God debate has been going on a very close friend of mines mother passed away at the age of 47, my friend is 21 and has two older brothers and one younger sister. On early hours of Saturday morning she passed away exactly 5 years to the month she was diagnosed with Cancer, my friend and his family had stayed with her all night as nurses etc basically told them she wouldn't make it till next day. All the family were talking to her as she lay dying but with no response from their mother only that she was breathing, the oldest brother had just said to her not to worry about her young daughter who is only 17 and then she gave her last breath. I know this probably doesn't seem like much but the mother was worried about all the family when she passed away and had expressed her worries about the young daughter would cope etc. It seems that once this was said to the mother she was at peace and just let herself go. I have had close people who have died and strange things have happened like that too when the are on the 'death bed' and I find it surreal. It gets you thinking about why her last breath was after she got comfort knowing that her youngest would be ok and in similar deaths of close friends and family something has happened to get people thinking.

If anyone has something to say about this please be gentle as this is a very close person to me.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Why people believe in god:

1. Upbringing, children believe anything - impressionable.

2. Trauma, poeple can't cope with severe trauma without kidding themselves that there is a god/heaven to make it all better.

3. Idiocy.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

lol what a load of bollox


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

megatron said:


> Why people believe in god:
> 
> 1. Upbringing, children believe anything - impressionable.
> 
> ...


Megatron so what your saying is that everyone who believes in God is an idiot?

My Dad has exactly the same view in that he doesn't believe in God. The thing is people choose to believe in or not believe in God for their own reasons, I'm sure everyone on this board has someone in the family or close friends that believe in God. There's always gonna be an argument of proof as the bible doesn't seem enough proof for people. Another argument would be if there was no religion there would be no wars:confused1:


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

SHAROOTS said:


> Megatron so what your saying is that everyone who believes in God is an idiot?


I don't think my post was confusing mate, there were three reasons I put down... One of them was stupidity. So no.


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

It shows how much religion has effects on people wether believe or not believe as this thread has over 31 pages already, everyone with a view.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

SHAROOTS said:


> *It shows how much religion has effects on* *people wether believe or not believe* as this thread has over 31 pages already, everyone with a view.


Your not wrong.

Most Conflicts between coutries over the years have been religious based.

Great advert to believe IMO:confused1:


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

jw007 said:


> Your not wrong.
> 
> Most Conflicts between coutries over the years have been religious based.
> 
> Great advert to believe IMO:confused1:


Another thing that gets me about religion is why there is always another explanation of the Bible etc. I am protestant but find over here in Belfast we have Presbyterian, Elim, Methodist and Church of Ireland and everyone has a different definition of the works of the Bible, Jesus etc. It's strange and confusing as to who's version is right.

Not as bad as Islam I suppose were you have peaceful Muslims and then the headers that define it a different way and want to do everyone in as infidels:confused1:


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

uh.. i believe in ME....

im courteous, fair (in the main), loyal to those around me, and never been nasty to anyone except my flatmate who stole from me when i was in hospital (he ended up wetting his pants)

i think the NEED to believe in something stems from a lack of self confidence or a requirement to rationalise everyhting around someome

im religious in the fact im Roman Catholic in faith and Irish by birth... both of which i had no choice in...

when my Dad died i read athte church, carried the coffin, and lowered him into the ground... so i paid respects in a conventional sense... kept my moms and relatives happy...

then for my own personal thoughts i went back to the grave the next day and just sat there, chatting to him... letting my thoughts of him wander through the memories of my life up[ to then......

what i mean here, is its one thing to adhere to a set of religious rules because you're brought up with it and are expected to... its another just generally being respectful, moral, and contemplative through your life for you OWN mental well being


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

SHAROOTS said:


> As this God debate has been going on a very close friend of mines mother passed away at the age of 47, my friend is 21 and has two older brothers and one younger sister. On early hours of Saturday morning she passed away exactly 5 years to the month she was diagnosed with Cancer, my friend and his family had stayed with her all night as nurses etc basically told them she wouldn't make it till next day. All the family were talking to her as she lay dying but with no response from their mother only that she was breathing, the oldest brother had just said to her not to worry about her young daughter who is only 17 and then she gave her last breath. I know this probably doesn't seem like much but the mother was worried about all the family when she passed away and had expressed her worries about the young daughter would cope etc. It seems that once this was said to the mother she was at peace and just let herself go. I have had close people who have died and strange things have happened like that too when the are on the 'death bed' and I find it surreal. It gets you thinking about why her last breath was after she got comfort knowing that her youngest would be ok and in similar deaths of close friends and family something has happened to get people thinking.
> 
> If anyone has something to say about this please be gentle as this is a very close person to me.


Have pm'd you


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

Can I just ask something...mainly to the peeps that don't believe in God and have children...and I hope this question doesn't open up any old wounds for anybody or make anyone feel uncomfortable.I use this example as I think that when your own child dies it can be even harder to deal with that say if it was your own parent.

*What would you do if your child died today?*

I know that some people will say ''theres nothing I can do about it'' or whatever...but just *really* think about it....it's the most hurtful heart breaking thing any parent could ever go through.

Would you rather think they have gone to 'nowhere' as there is nowhere else to go when we die and you are never going to see them again?

Or would you feel at peace knowing that they are going to a better place where they are being loved and feel completely happy...that one day you will see them again and all be happy forever?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Girl4 said:


> Can I just ask something...mainly to the peeps that don't believe in God and have children...and I hope this question doesn't open up any old wounds for anybody or make anyone feel uncomfortable.I use this example as I think that when your own child dies it can be even harder to deal with that say if it was your own parent.
> 
> *What would you do if your child died today?*
> 
> ...


What a stupid comment.

WTF!!!! Why would i be at peace because there dead.

God or no god she would be fckin dead and one way or another would not make me feel the slightest bit better.

grow up and stop preaching.


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## Girl4 (May 20, 2008)

jw007 said:


> What a stupid comment.
> 
> WTF!!!! Why would i be at peace because there dead.
> 
> ...


I don't feel it's a stupid comment as it is something that happens day in and day out in the world.

I think that if it were to happen then you would possible feel very differently.

Why do you always post so aggressively?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Girl4 said:


> I don't feel it's a stupid comment as it is something that happens day in and day out in the world.
> 
> I think that if it were to happen then you would possible feel very differently.
> 
> Why do you always post so aggressively?


Death happens day to day.

First off *IF* there is a GOD and he took my daughter from me, then hes a pr1ck.

Secondly, If he did that to me or my daughter then why would i want her going anywhere near the ****., and IF i ended up in same place as him i would smack him in the mouth.

And thirdly, if my posts come across aggressive on this thread its because i hate holier than thou hypocrites who think their lives are better than others and they live better more fullfilling lives because they have "faith".

In fact most of the nastiest, evil people i have ever met have been religious, and there is more child abuse in religious sectore than anywhere else.

And this is not a personal attack on you


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Girl4 said:


> Can I just ask something...mainly to the peeps that don't believe in God and have children...and I hope this question doesn't open up any old wounds for anybody or make anyone feel uncomfortable.I use this example as I think that when your own child dies it can be even harder to deal with that say if it was your own parent.
> 
> *What would you do if your child died today?*
> 
> ...


My point exactly, many people who do "believe" only do so because they can't cope with the mental trauma of events like these... Ever wonder why most religions target the berieved? Because people are weak in that state and irrational - two nice factors when it comes to believing in a concept with no proof.

If it happened to me, i'd personally prefer not to kid myself just for the sake of some bull5hit "inner peace".


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

that is because the people that do these things just use religion as a shield to unleash their ungodly acts on the innocent


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Kezz said:


> that is because the people that do these things just use religion as a shield to unleash their ungodly acts on the innocent


Exactly, so its all fake..........Like WWE


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

jw007 said:


> Exactly, so its all fake..........Like WWE


lol, there's a ton of dumb fookers out there that think both are real


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> My point exactly, many people who do "believe" only do so because they can't cope with the mental trauma of events like these... Ever wonder why most religions target the berieved? Because people are weak in that state and irrational - two nice factors when it comes to believing in a concept with no proof.


 I believe there is an afterlife and can certainly cope with day to day things without turning to it for help........... its quite a nice feeling "knowing"


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

WHAT WWE IS FAKE!!!!

MUMMY..........................


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

CAN YOU SMEELLLLLLL WHAT JW007 IS COOKING


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> I believe there is an afterlife and can certainly cope with day to day things without turning to it for help........... its quite a nice feeling "knowing"


I don't know if ur taking the p or not.

I never said that religion was used to cope with day to day things, but you can't deny that death is a hell of alot easier to swallow if you think there is a heaven. And lets get it straight - nobody "knows" f**k all about an afterlife or god... To "know" it there would need to be proof, that's why it's called "belief".


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Kezz is opening a can of whoop ass!!!!!!!!!


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

i live my life in a mostly karmic way.. not to get too fagly squigly bout it

i just treat people with respect... pretty fairluy,,, and with a large degree of ass-woopin if they cross me...

i think that should see me ok with most religions come judgement day


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> I don't know if ur taking the p or not.
> 
> I never said that religion was used to cope with day to day things, but you can't deny that death is a hell of alot easier to swallow if you think there is a heaven. And lets get it straight - nobody "knows" f**k all about an afterlife or god... To "know" it there would need to be proof, that's why it's called "belief".


 I bet you dont believe in ghosts or any other supernatural phenomenon either do you?? .............. if in your heart you "know" then you dont need any proof


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> I bet you dont believe in ghosts or any other supernatural phenomenon either do you?? .............. if in your heart you "know" then you dont need any proof


Again, there has never been any proof of any of that crap, I say crap because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

There are tons of prizes available to anyone who can demonstate evidence of any paranormal activity, if you're so sure that these things exist then how come nobody has ever claimed any of the prizes? ever?

By that way what you are saying is "thinking" not "knowing". You think there is an afterlife - you would have to have been there to know it. Just a matter of using the right words. Like I know my motorbike is red, because i've seen it - but I think that my mates motorbike is red because he told me.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

generally when paranormal things happen its when you least expect it, i have seen and experienced things that would make you **** your pants, but i cant prove it so will just have to take my word for it!! ........ and again i know and dont think there is an after life but once again you will just have to take my word for it


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> generally when paranormal things happen its when you least expect it, i have seen and experienced things that would make you **** your pants, but i cant prove it so will just have to take my word for it!! ........ and again i know and dont think there is an after life but once again you will just have to take my word for it


How do you know mate? I'd really like to know that.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

I think God and Paranormal are completely different things.

Dont believe in God, but plenty of unexplained stuff out there thats pretty interesting.

But then i think its all to do with human mind, as we use what 10% of our brain power.

must be some useful, unexplainable stuff we could do with other 90%.


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

For the people who do believe in god how many of u actually do soemthing about it? How many of you pray and go to church the mosque whatever? Cuz I know alot of people say that they are christian but when u say what church they go they are like oh i havent been for a while...and when u ask have u read the bible they are like no not got round to it or i got one somewhere... not

having a go but..i am just interested1


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

jw007 said:


> I think God and Paranormal are completely different things.
> 
> Dont believe in God, but plenty of unexplained stuff out there thats pretty interesting.
> 
> ...


Why unexplainable though?


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

i believe in the paranormal  or something cuz weird things do happen all the time i have witnessed a few weird things


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

megatron said:


> Why unexplainable though?


Maybe explainable, but not by me lol.

Ive had few "experiences", very werid ones, pointless elaborting, but things like deja vu etc etc and im sure they can be explained but ive never seen or read a reasonable explanation for stuff i have personally experienced.

Now dont get me wrong, on no level do i think its got anything to do with religion or God lol

And also its not happened a lot, just a few "strange" occurances over the years

But it could prob be in my head or mind playing tricks etc etc.

Just never had explanation for it.

But totally up for one if it were offered.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

offo said:


> i believe in the paranormal  or something cuz weird things do happen all the time i have witnessed a few weird things


Oh man alive give over...

Nobody has ever been able to demonstrate anything paranormal under laboritory conditions when a big pile of money has been offered. The argument that they only happen when you least expect it is not really valid. There are tons of fortune tellers, UFO sightings, tarot card readers, telechenetics that have been CONNING dumb fkers out of their money for a long time... When tested by a scientist -- guess what, it's all BS. Smoke and mirrors.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I have experienced many paranormal things, from when i was a young child right up to adulthood........ I have been visited by relatives (in spirit) on the eve of their death, I have been physically attacked by unseen forces, i have been forewarned about things that hadn't happened yet, when i was a small boy of around 7 years old i was laying in bed and a great big purple tunnel opened up in front of me with either a white light or a white horse at the end of it, my body felt as though it was being pulled foreward and being dragged backwards at the same time, in fact this has happened to me twice on both occasions i started to go into it but for some reason was snapped back........I find it very difficult not to believe there is something else now........

I have experienced so much more but the above is just an example


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

jw007 said:


> Maybe explainable, but not by me lol.
> 
> Ive had few "experiences", very werid ones, pointless elaborting, but things like deja vu etc etc and im sure they can be explained but ive never seen or read a reasonable explanation for stuff i have personally experienced.
> 
> Deja vu... I was watching something about it lastnight..and what htey said was that your mind mixes up memory with fact and for a moment ya brain has a lapse and cant decide if u have been there before or if its just a memory....really hard to explain


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

nah i have experience weird things but i havent had anything weird happen to me since i moved back to the uk....


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Crazy Kezz, although for me, those things you describe could easily be tricks of the mind. Iv'e seen some crazy stuff on acid 

But seriously, don't you think it's more likey that your mind can give you supernatural experiences when under stress/exhaustion/emotion than "something else"?


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## paramuscle (Aug 28, 2008)

offo said:


> For the people who do believe in god how many of u actually do soemthing about it? How many of you pray and go to church the mosque whatever? Cuz I know alot of people say that they are christian but when u say what church they go they are like oh i havent been for a while...and when u ask have u read the bible they are like no not got round to it or i got one somewhere... not
> 
> having a go but..i am just interested1


I honestly don't think that Christianity is defined by your attendance to church. I think each person is responsible for what they believe and going to church and paying tithes is not sufficient proof of someone's faith. As far as what I am doing about it, I have chosen to educate myself so that I can have an intelligent conversation about the subject. I believe that if this makes one single person start to question and believe, then my job has been done. It's ok that you don't believe but again, I do and I know why I do. My relationship with Christ is a personal journey to make myself and the people I touch better in some way, it isn't about a building full of hypocrites..........

~PM


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

i did get a vision of my dead dad while i was fout of it on pain killers after breaking my back/neck...

it wasnt way out there.. but i just got a feeling he was aty peace and i shouldnt worry about him...

went a long way to easing how i felt about the whole thing


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

PeterTheEater said:


> i did get a vision of my dead dad while i was fout of it on pain killers after breaking my back/neck...
> 
> it wasnt way out there.. but i just got a feeling he was aty peace and i shouldnt worry about him...
> 
> went a long way to easing how i felt about the whole thing


More likely that it's a mechanisim in your brain to help you survive (can't function if catatonic with grief) or "god"?


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> Crazy Kezz, although for me, those things you describe could easily be tricks of the mind. Iv'e seen some crazy stuff on acid
> 
> But seriously, don't you think it's more likey that your mind can give you supernatural experiences when under stress/exhaustion/emotion than "something else"?


 without a doubt, but i would know if i was under stress or not and i can assure you i wasnt!!! they were nothing like mushy or acid visions either, LOL


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

megatron said:


> More likely that it's a mechanisim in your brain to help you survive (can't function if catatonic with grief) or "god"?


well in the vision he was ranting on bout a tenner i owed him and how he was gonna kick my ass when i died etc etc... so i dont reckon it was survival thing

(just joking)

it was quite a profound experience to be honest... as for a coping mechanism... he succumbed to cancer over 7 years slowly.. right in front of our eyes so i/we had plenty of time to make our peace with the guy


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Kezz said:


> I have experienced many paranormal things, from when i was a young child right up to adulthood........ I have been visited by relatives (in spirit) on the eve of their death, I have been physically attacked by unseen forces, i have been forewarned about things that hadn't happened yet, when i was a small boy of around 7 years old i was laying in bed and a great big purple tunnel opened up in front of me with either a white light or a white horse at the end of it, my body felt as though it was being pulled foreward and being dragged backwards at the same time, in fact this has happened to me twice on both occasions i started to go into it but for some reason was snapped back........I find it very difficult not to believe there is something else now........
> 
> I have experienced so much more but the above is just an example


you aint been seeing anything weird about our flight to vegas have you, dont go seeing our plane blow up or something, marias already been to docs for her medication for flying.

there again if you start getting nervous and wont get on the plane,ill be following you mate. :thumbup1:

yeah i can believe the experiences you have with the 'PARANORMAL', still though i still feel it has nowt to do with any type of "god"


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Gonna bow out of this thread, I have made my arguments and I think my stance is clear. Can't really contribute anything else constructive.


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## paramuscle (Aug 28, 2008)

megatron said:


> Yeha that's not near proving the existance of God...
> 
> Well no apart from all the ruins, the colleseum etc...
> 
> ...


That's not what I meant exactly but rather, I was illustrating the fact that Pascal, a mathematician, stated that basically if you do believe in God and are wrong, you have lost nothing. If you don't and are wrong, you lose everything. His argument was that not believing makes no sense and we should all basically try to see for ourselves. I have found throughout the years that most people who do not believe, have never actually done any real research on the subject.

~PM


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

nigs66 said:


> you aint been seeing anything weird about our flight to vegas have you, dont go seeing our plane blow up or something, marias already been to docs for her medication for flying.
> 
> there again if you start getting nervous and wont get on the plane,ill be following you mate. :thumbup1:
> 
> yeah i can believe the experiences you have with the 'PARANORMAL', still though i still feel it has nowt to do with any type of "god"


 so would you say a god is normal or paranormal???????


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

As I have said before, does something HAVE to be physical/real to exist?

I mean if it exists in one persons mind/brain then to that person it is real.


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

See, this is why religion is bad - it's so divisive and causes nothing but strife.



ShaunMc said:


> couldnt have put it better myself .....
> 
> isnt gambling a sin though .... strange that the religious make up their rules to suit their purpose .... hold up a second, thats the only way the bible makes sense ha ha


Like Fundamentalists who are selective about Leviticus? Well if you're going to use the Bible as justification for saying nasty things about gays and whatever, better make damn sure you also refuse to wear mixed fibres, eat shellfish and pork, and bansih your wife when she's on her monthlies.



jw007 said:


> most of the nastiest, evil people i have ever met have been religious


The lovely Iris Robinson MP MLA for example...


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

you lot are just plain naughty, now get to sunday school and repent..... SINNERS !!!!


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Kezz said:


> so would you say a god is normal or paranormal???????


i would say a 'god' is normal to those who believe in a 'god'.

paranormal and spooky freaky goings on aint normal and got nowt to do with religion or god or jesus.

my boss gets messages from god y'know and then she goes round spreading what he has said to her- now that aint normal, its:bounce:mad.

i wonder when he tells her these messages, on the bog, in the shower, whilst making love(horrible thought)


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

nigs66 said:


> i would say a 'god' is normal to those who believe in a 'god'.
> 
> paranormal and spooky freaky goings on aint normal and got nowt to do with religion or god or jesus.
> 
> ...


she (my boss) can also give gay people councelling to turn them straight, wow now thats clever:confused1:


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

nigs66 said:



> she (my boss) can also give gay people councelling to turn them straight, wow now thats clever:confused1:


Is your boss Iris Robinson MP MLA?


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

IMO religion is just an addiction like anything else. Quite often people who have been really bad or drug addicts find god and then sort themselves out, really they have just swapped all the bad stuff for another addiction which happens to be god. It also acts as a safety net as they know if they stick to the rules they wont [email protected] up again. Really a strong person should be able to overcome life's adversities without needing to use religion. This is just my opinion and how i live my life and i don't want to offend those who believe in god. I personally think life is about balance in order to be truly happy and religions are extreme they are not balanced.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

nigs66 said:


> i would say a 'god' is normal to those who believe in a 'god'.
> 
> paranormal and spooky freaky goings on aint normal and got nowt to do with religion or god or jesus.
> 
> ...


 so therefore the paranormal is also normal to those who believe in it too?? so the paranormal is normal and the supernatural, is well "super" natural....... like me in the gym tonight hahaha..... regarding your boss she is just a plain headcase...... I hope she doesnt try and cure me of my impure sexually deviant thoughts though otherwise i will bash her with her bible, lol


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

dmcc said:


> Is your boss Iris Robinson MP MLA?


Didn't think you'd heard of Iris.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I wonder how many people that do not believe in God will talk to him on their death bed?


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

hackskii said:


> I wonder how many people that do not believe in God will talk to him on their death bed?


Might as well hedge your bets so to speak.


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

SHAROOTS said:


> Didn't think you'd heard of Iris.


Born in Down, bred in Fermanagh.

Haggard old cow could do with a gay man to do her hair and makeup... :laugh:


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

IMHO

Religion is the route of all evil.

I have seen more evil deeds done in the name of religion than I care to think about.

More men have died in the name of religion. Than anything else.

Religion kills more people per year, than smoking, drinking, and drugs combined.

Each to there own.

But some of the things I have been through and seen, lead me to believe that there is no God.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Another sinner to be fed to the beast.......... LOL


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

dmcc said:


> Born in Down, bred in Fermanagh.
> 
> Haggard old cow could do with a gay man to do her hair and makeup... :laugh:


Were abouts in Down mate, I'm from Belfast.

Would you give her one anyway? :innocent:


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Beans said:


> IMHO
> 
> Religion is the route of all evil.
> 
> ...


 :thumb:


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## liberator (Aug 27, 2008)

Somewhere in our brains is a functional area that requires us to have a "belief system"......

I don't belive in god, but I do have a belief system anyway...

shall I go off on one here, lol...... (takes a deep breath)

Human kind have very enquiring minds, and the one thing that is unique to use from any other animal on the planet is we have foresight - the perception of the significance and nature of events before they have occurred..

so if you friends parents die in a horibble accident, and you see your friend grieving...... then you then have foresight of what things might be like when your parent die for you.

*Why?*

ever seen anybody have a breakdown and they're sobbing and just asking "why, why, why, why?!"

We have a need to be able to give reason to things in our minds.. if we can't we search really hard for an answer, or just give our selves the nearest stupid answer that we find.... because not having an answer to any particular moral question would scare us too much and leave us vulnerable.... and we wouldn't be able to cope with it..

Whether you need a reason for why a child was raped and killed, a storm has killed 1000's in some part of the world, or why somebody has become rich and successful..... we will often give ourselves an easy answer and accept it, without really delving into the real reasons behind it.

With TV and Media growth in the recent decades people have become more aware of terrible global events, and also scientific reasoning behind it.... with the advancement of technology and science we are actually finding more accurate reasons for those morally difficult questions, and science is replacing religion.

Think about it........ what is the bible? Its a book of answers - are they the right ones? I dunno, but its answers that people can accept in their minds, and then stop worrying/thinking about that moral dilemma in their life.

Who wrote the bible/scriptures?

Well, personally I think it was written by a person/group of people most likely who were similar to todays psychologists, and the great philosophers of the past.

Babylon was once over run with alcohol, prostitution, and a mixed culture. Obviously with all of these come problems, moral and social just as we see in modern society.... somebody must have sat on the wayside and watched all of this, analysed it and come up with some possible solutions and answers as to why people are the way they are, and Im sure with that they wanted to make a record, so hence the scriptures were carved into stone as a way of policing society and human behaviour.

So.... with the questions where do we come from, how were we created, whats out there in space and on the edge of the possibly expanding universe, and what will happen to me when I die....... come some very difficult answers....

I've seen people go from being a raped boy to troubled man who used to have hallucinations, to being saved by religion (Wicca - White Witchcraft type stuff) for many years over to Christianity.

I've also seen a completely dedicated southern american woman go from being a total preacher & messanger of god to turning completely to witchcraft.

When one religion can't answer *all* of your questions, people try another.... both of these people were raped as children so had some really horrible morally difficult questions to answer in their minds. But I don't think anyone could actually accept the simple truth of why a person would do something like that, and destroy their lives because of a simple urge.

As human beings we continually endeavour to find answers. This is why we are advancing so quickly in the realms of science, whether it be up and into outer space, or down and into human genomes, cells etc...

But...... in my opinion the human race is so basic we will never have the answers to those few BIG questions...... we'll never know how the universe started, how life was created, or whats out there....

once upon a time, god created everything,

now its the big bang theory,

but even science is an assumption. Its a human interpretation of what we discover using technology and knowledge that we have created ourselves, so the chances of us being compeletely wrong on subject matter we know nothing about is quite high.

It is a scary thought thinking that when you die, thats it.... lights off, and nothing ever again, not a thought, colour, breath, or feeling... but in my books, thats what I believe.... and there is my belief system.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

amen


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

sing it brothers!


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

yup darkness lights out for you brothers!!!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

amen brrrrootttthheerrrrrrr...... halaaaayyyyyluuuuuullyaaaa myyy chiiillld!!!


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

years ago i would have been a templar waving my big weapon in your faces hahahaha LOL


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)




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## liberator (Aug 27, 2008)

nigs66 said:


> i would say a 'god' is normal to those who believe in a 'god'.
> 
> paranormal and spooky freaky goings on aint normal and got nowt to do with religion or god or jesus.


The paranormal events that people claim to experience are people searching desperately for answers to things they can't explain... They want to believe so desperately in life after death that they claim to see people in the afterlife, or events that claim to give evidence of an afterlife.

Or if and event occurs that a person can't begin to comprehend or understand it gets labelled as a paranormal phenomenon..

Other strong religious believers will have reason to shoot down any evidence that is put forth like photos, but then the same thing happens with people who claim to have stigmata......

For all this stuff that claims to have happened I've not seen any evidence that is unequivocably not fake or cause by humans....










wow, hes so handsome and famous.... and probably has a lavish lifestyle because of his followers and fans..... all people searching for reassurance and proof of an afterlife in their subconscious minds.....

at least he's making himself rich through other peoples weaknesses, and if you're business is related to peoples belief systems, then you got a good business cus theres 60million customers in this country, and 5 or 6 billion worldwide.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

hes also in the thread: this weeks poll for [email protected] of the week!!


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

i once had a dream i was picking potatoes in the rain...

i woke up with a wet stalk in my hand...

that count????


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-conversation/39392-w-nker-week.html


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

liberator said:


> The paranormal events that people claim to experience are people searching desperately for answers to things they can't explain... They want to believe so desperately in life after death that they claim to see people in the afterlife, or events that claim to give evidence of an afterlife.
> 
> Or if and event occurs that a person can't begin to comprehend or understand it gets labelled as a paranormal phenomenon..
> 
> ...


 No disrespect mate but that is the biggest load of bollox in have ever heard....... well the derek part is prob true


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## liberator (Aug 27, 2008)

Kezz said:


> No disrespect mate but that is the biggest load of bollox in have ever heard....... well the derek part is prob true


like i say..... its just what I believe, and probaby is bollox, but wouldn't want to offend anyone by telling them what I think is bollocks. A persons belief system is their life, and most people are willing to defend it with their lives wouldn't you say?... hence the stormy debates that go on about different religions and whos is best/right.

no offence taken :thumbup1:


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I know mate, its just sometimes people will go out of their way to prove their is nothing like they want there to be nothing......... just keep an open mind and wait for the end!!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

Kezz said:


> ......... just keep an open mind and wait for the end!!


a principle i use when im pi$$ed in a taxi with an ugly fat bird on the way to hers.


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

itraininthedark said:


> a principle i use when im pi$$ed in a taxi with an ugly fat bird on the way to hers.


i have actually gotten out of a taxi at a set of traffic lights and RAN for it she was that bad...

i was coming down off a pill at the time and minute by agonising minute that bitch was lookin worse and worse... all fat n sweatin n farty looking n ****...

n that was just ME

:blush:


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

SHAROOTS said:


> Were abouts in Down mate, I'm from Belfast.
> 
> Would you give her one anyway? :innocent:


Born in Ards, got out as soon as I could (before 3rd b'day). Went to QUB for 5 years...

And I'm one of those people who Iris wants to convert :thumb:


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2008)

I think the majority of faithy type people want to believe in God when something has gone wrong in their lives and they find this as a way of solice, they haven't any answers to their problems/grief so they turn to god in the hope they can find them, or make the pain in their lives somewhat answerable for..................................

I on the other hand think it's a load of fat hairy boll @cks, I've had sh1te the majority of my life and it's still goin on, I don't turn to god to thank him or ask why this sh1te keeps happenin to me as people when they get to adult hood are responsible for their own lives to a certain point.

I'd be more prone to knock the f00ker out and ask selfishly why couldn't he have picked someone else, and could I slip him a bung to at least make the reest of my life more enjoyable :thumb:

Linda x


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

not a beliver in the sky fairy tbh, and religion in general to me is ludicrous, blindly folowed by so many

however if you have a serious think about the origins of the universe ect, before the big bang - options become limited.

is it really so impossible??

i think it would be rather niave to discount anything.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2008)

coco said:


> not a beliver in the sky fairy tbh, and religion in general to me is ludicrous, blindly folowed by so many
> 
> however if you have a serious think about the origins of the universe ect, before the big bang - options become limited.
> 
> ...


Everyone has their own opinion on these matters, and it is personal to yourself, there is no right or wrong answer.

It amazes me how life and the planet were formed, that will always interest me.

But God is a personal decision, I'm not naive about this I just dont believe. Your born then you die, simple as IMO.

I was brought up going to church, sunday school etc etc, pushed onto me by one set of grandparents, it wasn't my choice.

I haven't had my children christened as I believe this is also their choice.

I have respect for people from all walks of life and their beliefs, and I most certainly wouldn't do anything to deliberately mock anyones faith or religion, I just don't believe myself, all from selfish reasons most probably, but thats it, thats me

Linda


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## Baggers (May 31, 2008)

This will sound a little cynical but for anbody (and im sure there will be a few on this forum), that spent time in Bosnia and Kosovo in the early 90's, I think you will agree that there can't possibly be a God. If there were, why on earth would he have allowed hiddeous things like that to happen.

I must admit that I used to have a bit of faith but after seeing first hand, the things going on in Afghanistan and recently in Iraq, it simply makes no sense.

I think its a case of "my god is bigger than your god" that has caused and is continuing to cause the majority of problems around the world.

Darwins theory is a much safer bet


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## Baggers (May 31, 2008)

PeterTheEater said:


> i have actually gotten out of a taxi at a set of traffic lights and RAN for it she was that bad...
> 
> i was coming down off a pill at the time and minute by agonising minute that bitch was lookin worse and worse... all fat n sweatin n farty looking n ****...
> 
> ...


LOLOL :bounce:


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

fully agree wit you lin,

im very much of the same thinking, its just when you get that bit further - things become impossible to comprehend - thats its just as possible there is a creator.

to totally discount it would be niave imo, years ago people were convinced the world was flat, everyone "beleived" that to be the truth, all im saying is that i dont think id discvount anything,

im really very anti -religous, i hate it with a true passion if im honest, and the pain and suffereing caused by it and see notr need for it in modern day, i will never encourage my kids to become religous.

peoples veiw on god very so greatly, imo a god is personal thing, for me its not an omnipresent being set out to look after everyone, or to look after souls in heaven, none of that i beleive.

its more the creator side - just because experience shows that fact is often strangeer than fiction - means to me it cannot totally be discounted


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2008)

coco said:


> fully agree wit you lin,
> 
> im very much of the same thinking, its just when you get that bit further - things become impossible to comprehend - thats its just as possible there is a creator.
> 
> ...


This is what fascinates me also, always has done always will, but I think if we knew the answer would it be as interesting?

Somethings in life will always remain a mystery, thats what makes each day differant from the next, and some will always be crapper than others :laugh:


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## knightrider (Sep 9, 2008)

I will keep is simple. Yes I do.


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

Lin said:


> This is what fascinates me also, always has done always will, but I think if we knew the answer would it be as interesting?
> 
> Somethings in life will always remain a mystery, thats what makes each day differant from the next, and some will always be crapper than others :laugh:


lol yeah

but it would be good to know - im a nosey bstard lol :laugh:


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2008)

coco said:


> lol yeah
> 
> but it would be good to know - im a nosey bstard lol :laugh:


So am I :laugh:


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

I dont think its that black and white....

I was brought up strongly to believe in god... over the last 5 years though i have battled with my personal true views on this world...

Still unsure of the conclussion.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2008)

GSleigh said:


> I dont think its that black and white....
> 
> I was brought up strongly to believe in god... over the last 5 years though i have battled with my personal true views on this world...
> 
> Still unsure of the conclussion.


Like I said it's YOUR personal preferance, YOUR opinion, YOUR belief...there is only one true answer, and that is your own 

x


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

All religions are basically the same IMO.

1. Our god rules

2. Praise our god

3. Don't sin

4. Anyone who doesnt beleive in our god is a sinner.


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Tinytom said:


> I was raised as a catholic although I dont go to church anymore.
> 
> I dont know if I believe in God as this would promote fate and negate self determination which I think as humans we make our own fate through the choices we make in life.
> 
> ...


well put and very similar to my own views.

I have strong faith in god but I am not particularly religious if that makes sense.... as someone else pointed out, every religion has something in its teachings that is negative (everyone else will go to hell, other people are all wrong etc....) and I dont agree with that part. I do however agree with the positive teachings of the bible in terms of fidelity, being kind to one another, not being selfish or greedy, loving your neighbour etc etc...

If it helps me to live a good and moral life then it must be a good thing, but I refuse to take it on fully as there are too many fundemental flaws in organised religion.

That said I wouldn't rule out putting more structure to it, particularly when the time comes to have children.


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

No, and I don't agree with the scare tactics either "you'll burn in hell for eternity etc." trying to scare people into following a religion. Well suck my pork sword ****.


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

Zara-Leoni said:


> well put and very similar to my own views.
> 
> I have strong faith in god but I am not particularly religious if that makes sense.... as someone else pointed out, every religion has something in its teachings that is negative (everyone else will go to hell, other people are all wrong etc....) and I dont agree with that part. I do however agree with the positive teachings of the bible in terms of fidelity, being kind to one another, not being selfish or greedy, loving your neighbour etc etc...
> 
> ...


some people use religion as a guide to provde morals to live by, i like to think human compassion/understanding would provide these morals without the need for religion.

it then lessens the need for religion and also the negatives that come with it,

all just imo of course


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Personally I HOPE there is a God, as that way there will be a Devil to punish all the sick,evil fookers in the world, most attrocities (war and such like) are caused by man, not God, war is just a grandiose example of Saturday night down the pub when you accidently bump into the town loon, pretty much all hell breaks out for sfa, when all is over someone asks what was that about and he replies "he knocked into me on purpose" you say you "no I fvcking didn't" and we all kick off again. We can't really blame God not interfering can we.

I can't really explain Hurricanes, earth quakes, tsunamis etc, could be God just blowing his nose

Of course just mho


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

coco said:


> some people use religion as a guide to provde morals to live by, i like to think human compassion/understanding would provide these morals without the need for religion.
> 
> it then lessens the need for religion and also the negatives that come with it,
> 
> all just imo of course


I do have these morals but it provides a focus for reflection and sometimes to remind me of some things, also some stuff from the bible is good to provide thought and reflection...

each to there own though.


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

yip

each to there own


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

I represent vital existence over spiritual pipe dreams!


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

i believe in karma - do good things and good things will happen


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## Incredibl3Bulk (May 6, 2008)

only when i need a favor.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Not at the moment, I have a very open mind though and always looking for answers as to why we've all been shat onto this planet without a rule book.


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## sofresh (Sep 9, 2008)

Yes, I believe in God, Jesus, The holy spirit


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Remember Hulkamaniacs, say your prayers, take your vitamins and you will never go wrong!


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

All I can say is that people that believe in God, require a God to compensate for their own inadiquacies, doubt, weekness and lack of capcity to accept their own mortality. For those people that are scared of life, cant believe this is all there is, cant accept their own death or a death of a loved one then there will always be a God......If it helps them deal with something they are incapable of dealing with on their own, then whom am I to change their minds........if u behave, ull go to heaven? hahaha okay said the pedo priests, the witch burning and torturing spanish inquisition and of course the Catholic Hitler and Evangelist George Bush Junior............


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Sorry religious people are weak and blind self deceivers, that follow the flock like sheep with no mind of their own and no capacity to see the world for what it is and no desire to as it will ultimatley leed to them taking responsiblity for their own meaning in live. How hard is it to understand that through history relgious people and people using religion have been the cruelest and most dangerous people in history. More death, pain and torture caused by mis guided fools has happened in the name of religion than for any other reason.


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

rant over...train hard guys and girls...soz i went of on one.....Read any of the teachings of ANTON LAVEY THEN LETS TALK


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

NickM said:


> Sorry religious people are weak and blind self deceivers, that follow the flock like sheep with no mind of their own and no capacity to see the world for what it is and no desire to as it will ultimatley leed to them taking responsiblity for their own meaning in live. How hard is it to understand that through history relgious people and people using religion have been the cruelest and most dangerous people in history. More death, pain and torture caused by mis guided fools has happened in the name of religion than for any other reason.


yeah yeah


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

NickM said:


> rant over...train hard guys and girls...soz i went of on one.....Read any of the teachings of ANTON LAVEY THEN LETS TALK


you rant against god then preach about Anton Lavay, a self proclaimed high priest of satanism....

You don't need god but you need satan! Isn't that just as week?

Or is it the whole Crowleyesq "do what thy will" you prefer which lavay never dreamed up.

Sorry but IMO satanism is pathetic


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

just because you have spiritual beliefs doesnt mean you are weak, why should it


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Lol oh dear! Lavey taught, that Satan is man's natural and animalistic behavioural traits and is basically what the church uses to make everyone feel guilty alnd need to attend church to purge their natural insticts. Lavey chose the term satan and satanist as a joke a mockery of the church. If u were informed at all, then you'd know that Lavey does not believe in Satan or the Devil. Lavey does not believe in God of the Devil......Thats Devil worshipers that believe in the actual Devil. Lavey was no more than a ****ed of atheist with a like for drama. His book is actaully a book of theology on religion.....I dont believe in the Devil or God. Undestand what u comment on before saying anything in future.


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Spirtual beliefs make you weak becuase it shows ur desire to look for solutions and answers to questions that have not yet been answered by science. The problem is the answers these people come up with are spiritual pipe dreams based on a fictional selection of books and faith installed by various heads of religious orders. It shows that people with are willing to by is to lies and superstition that is completly unsubstanciated, rather than accept what human kind actually understands. The worst are people that heavily let these fictional beliefs affect their decisions, rules, ethics, reasons to war and how they judge others. So yes spiritual beliefes do make you weak.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

NickM said:


> Spirtual beliefs make you weak becuase it shows ur desire to look for solutions and answers to questions that have not yet been answered by science. The problem is the answers these people come up with are spiritual pipe dream based on a fictional selection of books and faith installed by various head of religious orders. It shows that people with are willing to by is to lies and superstition that is completly unsubstanciated, rather than accept what human kind actually understands. The worst are people that heavily let these fictional beliefs affect their decisions, rules, ethics, reasons to war and how they judge others. So yes spiritual beliefes do make you weak.


I fully agree


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

The enlightened do have pity on you


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2008)

> Spirtual beliefs make you weak becuase it shows ur desire to look for solutions and answers to questions that have not yet been answered by science. The problem is the answers these people come up with are spiritual pipe dream based on a fictional selection of books and faith installed by various head of religious orders. It shows that people with are willing to by is to lies and superstition that is completly unsubstanciated, rather than accept what human kind actually understands. The worst are people that heavily let these fictional beliefs affect their decisions, rules, ethics, reasons to war and how they judge others. So yes spiritual beliefes do make you weak.


I sort of agree

Religion does help many who have suffered or are weak, directionless gives many some hope (when there is no hope at all).

The sign of a truly strong person is one who helps the weak instead of trampling on them

or ridiculing them, if all the strong countries, races and people gave a helping hand there would be little need for religion would there. That in a billion years would not happen so religion will be around for quiet some time.

I find the pope preaching to the poor hapless and then living In the Vatican that is actually classed a country with religious relics that are so valuable they simply can not put a price on to be totally Bcollocks.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2008)

i believe in myself not god he has never helped me.

But looking in the mirror maybe i should beleive in god ;o(


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2008)

Do You Believe In God?

Not unless his name is Chris Jenkins


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Originally Posted by *NickM* 

Sorry religious people are weak and blind self deceivers, that follow the flock like sheep with no mind of their own and no capacity to see the world for what it is and no desire to as it will ultimatley leed to them taking responsiblity for their own meaning in live. How hard is it to understand that through history relgious people and people using religion have been the cruelest and most dangerous people in history. More death, pain and torture caused by mis guided fools has happened in the name of religion than for any other reason.

Very true NickM

AND ONCE AGAIN FOR ALL YOU MISGUIDED 'SMILE GOD IS MAKE BELIEVE'


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Let me explain how it works: From the begining of mans existence man has wanted to understand everything. A leader will come along and basically claim to know things that others dont. In the need for these people to understand the meaning of life etc, they will flock around the maipulative leader in an effort to understand and cope with their lack of understanding. These small groups were the first religions. These power hungry witch doctors would then argue with surounding groups etc as their views differed from their own. This would have been done in order to gain more land, power and followers. As time went onthe smaller religions were swallowed up by the larger ones until, pretty much every land mass or contenant had a different religion and values of life. Most wars have been caused by religion or by gready men using religion to suit their own ends. U are now left with countries that still do the same thing now. Muslim East vs christian west and so on. The people that follow these leaders are the ones that end up doing the killing, not becuase they are bad people, but becuase they are to stupid to think for themselves and are brain washed. Even the unreligious Saddam Hussein called a jehad (holy war) on the west as his last TV apearance insighting his people to fight for more than just his power and leadership, but for their very souls. Like I said greedy people manipluating the weak. So yes its weak to be religious...........


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

That is wasted on me as you are deluded


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Kezz said:


> That is wasted on me as you are deluded


kEZZ YOU SOUNDING LIKE A CERTAIN SOMEONE I USED TO WORK WITH, WHATS GOING ON BUDDY, U AINT BEEN RECRUITED INTO SOME EVANGALIST CHURCH WHICH BELIEVES THE EARTH IS ONLY A FEW THOUSAND YEARS OLD:lol:

WHATS YOUR AVATAR PIC??


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Kez, all I can say is the term "enlightened", means fool or hears voices (ie: crazy person). Next time you talk to God, tell him to stop christian African babies being born with AIDS and starving with dying parents and with nothing but months to live please.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

its not gods fault they are being born is it?


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## THEMEAT (Oct 22, 2008)

imo their is no god!! I dont believe in heaven or hell, I think we make our own heaven and hell when we are alive. I do believe in reincarnation though and I also believe in fate.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

NickM said:


> Kez, all I can say is the term "enlightened", means fool or hears voices (ie: crazy person). Next time you talk to God, tell him to stop christian African babies being born with AIDS and starving with dying parents and with nothing but months to live please.


Oh it's all part of his big plan etc. Religion has an answer for everything (however rediculous)


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

My dad spent 17 years ill. ill beyond words, now he was a religious man, being brought up catholic then turning christian, now as the years of suffering went on his faith completly went and i'll always remember a few things he said to me just before he died.

'one thing i know now that as my time is up i am so glad to truly understand how religious peoples minds work, i feel so happy that i know i aint going to no so called heaven im just gonna die, ive lived my life well, life has'nt treated me well at all but i have contributed my all and been a good man in this wonderfull life'

' i do now actually feel a little stupid that i actually believed in a god, to me now thats such a funny thought'


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> Oh it's all part of his big plan etc. Religion has an answer for everything (however rediculous)


 lol wind em up and watch em go  , why is it the anti god squad are the only ones trying to ram their beliefs down everyones throats


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

:thumb:

cos its time the tables where turned, and its annoying that god squad are so deluded it makes ya angry.

tired of this, im off.

gay jesus.bmp


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> lol wind em up and watch em go  , why is it the anti god squad are the only ones trying to ram their beliefs down everyones throats


it's just painful to see so many clever individuals so deluded in self confort.


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## Bulldog77 (Jun 23, 2008)

> have a code/belief that I follow and it goes like this
> 
> 1. Dont harm others unless they try to harm you.
> 
> ...


Excellent Tom i agree with that pal, i was confirmed as a teeanager and wnet to a C of E school , but no longer consider myself as a practising Christian, my answer is i dont know , and as others have posted i find it hard to beieve when there is all this suffering going on all around the world, IMO religion causes more wars and conflicts that anything else.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> it's just painful to see so many clever individuals so deluded in self confort.


 I am sure they are happy with their beliefs just as you are with yours


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> I am sure they are happy with their beliefs just as you are with yours


I'm sure they are, but *I'm *not  The point is they place their trust and belief in something which has no basis in anything apart from a book some bloke wrote thousands of years ago. If I believed in the lord of the rings and that Sauron was real and there were elves etc. you might consider me a bit strange? Imagine the horror if someone found that book in two thousasnd years time and took it as truth...

There probably isn't a god, although I agree nobody can prove or disrpove it (because it has been cleverly defined for that specific purpose).

There is nothing to suggest the existance of god - but (how convenient) religious people will tell you that is the whole point, you must believe in something with no basis in demonstrable fact or reason, this is somehow "having divine faith". They make it sound aspirational and esoteric, which is why people go for it.

It's no surprise to me that the same people who believe in god also swear they have seen ghosts or paranormal events, telepathy all that crap. There are several scientific research institutions offering prises numbering in the millions of pounds to anyone who can demonstrate any paranormal ability under a controlled lab environment (for many years). Unsurprisingly nobody has ever managed to claim those rewards - because it's all fabricated lies.

Lets face it, it's in peoples interest to perpetuate the myths of religion, telepathy, clairvoyance etc. *Because they make money from it.* It's very clever really, religion on one level is an intricate, elaborate scam which nobody can contest because it "is deeply offenseive" to question peoples beliefs (hmm there's a trend occuring here orf convenient things). Why is it so offenseive? I am somehow being offensive to question why so many of my fellow human beings feel the need to "believe" in the existance of god, allah, jesus, ghosts, x-files, orcs...

I worry about my own mortality sometimes, it's a very tough issue to tackle as a self aware, conscious organisim - the event of ceasing to exist is the most fearful concept we can imagine... Then a scammer from some religion turns up and uses a very cleverly designed arguemnt (which has been desigened over thousands of years) which has no basis in fact but seems to makse sense while also removing the fear of mortality (fear being our greatest motivator) - sign me up, I don't want oblivion I want heaven!

I'm sure Kezz you will ignore this post or skim over it because you don't like it and will counter my argument with one line of rhetoric along the lines of "You don't know because you don't believe", that's fine just don't wonder why people argue against religion with conviction when you counter a logical argument with illogical statements.

Religious people:


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Megatron u are wise fellow brother of iron! When the Bible was concieved people thought the world was flat and didnt extend past India to the East and Ireland to the West. They also thought that they were looking at where actual stars were when looking at them, had little or no understanding of medicine and anatomy...Yet in this day and age people are still willing to believe that the miracles of Jesus were in fact that. 2000 years later with no evidence can show anything he actually did beyond dates and circumstancial evidence. At best Jesus was the Derek Accura/David Blaine of his era and deserved to get nailed to the cross for talking bollocks and claiming to be the son of God. The Jews actually got one thing right. He may have actually believed what he was saying, but then what if he didnt??


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Oh and according to The Bible as I was baptised, all i have to do is repent for my sins at the last minute (which there are pleanty) and I get away scott free. So I'm enjoying life fear and guilt free until then.........lol im kidding there is no idiot at the pearly gates with a good boy/bad boy list deciding if i deserve fluffy clouds or the big tackle roast


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

I will not insult valued members again, and I am an idiot for doing so.....


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

NickM said:


> Oh and according to The Bible as I was baptised, all i have to do is repent for my sins at the last minute (which there are pleanty) and I get away scott free. So I'm enjoying life fear and guilt free until then.........lol im kidding there is no idiot at the pearly gates with a good boy/bad boy list deciding if i deserve fluffy clouds or the big tackle roast


Leading on from that the catholic church used to provide documents to essentially confirm the repentance of a person... It was common during the times of the crusades etc. For the Church to sell these documents to people blank, so that they could fill them out when they did commit a sin. A "get out of hell free card" If that doesn't sound like a scam I don't know what does.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

NickM said:


> Kezz u are a retard, but its okay as God moves in misterious ways...ooga booga! wooooo (spooky)


Come on, no need for that mate, you are not going to win anyone over like this - there's a ton of intelligent, educated poeple who are religious.


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Yer sorry Kezz, i was out of order to be honest. What i have written is logical and sync. It just frustrates me when people will not and cant actually consider my words on the subject and are blinded by deluded faith...but Megatron was right, there was no reason for an isults. sozzle chap


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

The thing is, the ten commandments and 7 deadly sins are fictionally the direct orders of God. Yet out entire police, law and ethical society stems down from their basic principals. its like religious or not we are all still living in the shadow of a fictional book. It mind numbingly ludicrous....agree Megatron?


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## Gza1 (Aug 6, 2007)

i belive in God been brought up since the age of 5 as a christian (jw)


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> I'm sure they are, but *I'm *not  The point is they place their trust and belief in something which has no basis in anything apart from a book some bloke wrote thousands of years ago. If I believed in the lord of the rings and that Sauron was real and there were elves etc. you might consider me a bit strange? Imagine the horror if someone found that book in two thousasnd years time and took it as truth...
> 
> There probably isn't a god, although I agree nobody can prove or disrpove it (because it has been cleverly defined for that specific purpose).
> 
> ...


 I read it mate!  and that is your point of view which i respect.

I myself cant be sure if there is a god or not but i do strongly believe in the afterlife, ghosts, spirit, demons etc..... oh yeah and aliens too lol

of course people will try and make money out of it and generally when they make tits out of themselves it fuels the fires for people like yourself, but still it doesnt mean there is "nothing else"

I am sure there is more to heaven and earth than our little phylosophy of it so lets wait and see, there is nothing to be gained by slagging people off for their beliefs.

Peace and love


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

NickM said:


> Yer sorry Kezz, i was out of order to be honest. What i have written is logical and sync. It just frustrates me when people will not and cant actually consider my words on the subject and are blinded by deluded faith...but Megatron was right, there was no reason for an isults. sozzle chap


 no prob mate


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

NickM said:


> The thing is, the ten commandments and 7 deadly sins are fictionally the direct orders of God. Yet out entire police, law and ethical society stems down from their basic principals. its like religious or not we are all still living in the shadow of a fictional book. It mind numbingly ludicrous....agree Megatron?


Yes and no, do I agree with the 10 commandments in principle:

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' NO, I don't believe in any gods - irrelevent

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.' NO, attempt to stifle scientific progress potentially

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.' NO, I take in in vain almost constantly

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.' YES, everyone needs a day off

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.' YES, they gave me life (not god)

SIX: 'You shall not murder.' YES

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.' YES, don't commit trust to your partner if you can't hold it, unless she's into it 

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.' YES, but if i'm dying I will steal to live

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.' What does this mean? don't perve on tyour neighbours bird? Screw that - if he leaves his curtains open; his loss - my gain 

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.' What if you are the servant? or the wife? This law clearly only applies to the affluent middle class males of two thousand years ago

Basically don't be a c*nt and make sure you worship god. It follows the theme of all religion: mixing obvious agreeable things (don't murder or steal) with the self-interest of the religios propagators/scammers (you MUST believe in my god and only my god).

I don't think it's officially a crime not to worship god, or make little models of god or even covet they neighbors ox. So really I don't think that law is so based on religion in the UK in 2008 - I mean it's a good law that we don't rob and murder?

What is wierd is that out of the 10 commandments 3 of them are about only worshipping the Christian god and none of them mention anything about voilence, rape or child abuse - personally i'd put those waaaay above not coveting oxen or donkeys.


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

As a wise man once said " I never hated the one true God, but the God of the people I hated". This basically means of course I cant say for sure there is no God or no controlling power beyond our understanding, but the thing is it is beyond our understanding and no amount of writting fictional books will help human kind understand this any faster. I resent organised religion and the people that munipulate it to suit there own ends. The fact is there maybe a god, but then there may also be a birthday weasel lol. My point is human kinds desire to make sence of what it cant comprehend has led to a lot of wars and greed. Im happy to not know and until we do know, im sitting on the bench and am not taking anyones word for anything, becuase to do so would be foolish


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> I am sure there is more to heaven and earth than our little phylosophy of it so lets wait and see, there is nothing to be gained by slagging people off for their beliefs.
> 
> Peace and love


Thanks mate, for the record I don't believe that there is catagorically no god, rather that I find it extremely unlikely. In all honesty i'd love it if there were a god and afterlife - way better than oblivion, i'm comfortable in knowing that if there is a god he would know that I led a decent life and never fvcked anyone over, was a decent guy etc. and let me in to heaven even though I didn't drink wine, burn insence, eat wafers, cut off my foreskin, think of sex as evil, give money to churches, try and convert people, wage war on infidels... Oh I could go on - you get the picture lol


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

oh yer I see what u mean, but fundimentaly the seven deadly sins are still the current sins of man and if all are ignored they will normally result in ur getting in trouble with the law, hospital or someone you know and thats because they are still the values westerners covert, so yeah I do think Gods book affects our everyday lives of today even if ur not religious


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

NickM said:


> oh yer I see what u mean, but fundimentaly the seven deadly sins are still the current sins of man and if all are ignored they will normally result in ur getting in trouble with the law, hospital or someone you know and thats because they are still the values westerners covert, so yeah I do think Gods book affects our everyday lives of today even if ur not religious


Bleh, I made a long post on the wrong set of conditions, 10 commandments rather than 7 deadly sins. now I'm posted out for the day and need to have my afternoon nap


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

NickM said:


> Undestand what u comment on before saying anything in future.


I guess that's aimed at me....

I understand plenty.

I'm an atheist

I understand that no one on UK muscle is about to solve mankinds theologies and philosophies with a few glib words.

The parts of Anton Lavay that I have read are mostly regurgitation of Aleister Crowley (I hinted at that in my post), I've read heavily of Crowley.

Crowley died a sad lonely broke old man and he was a hell of a lot more charismatic, powerful and original than lavay. All his stuff that I can see is plagiarized from better folk.

I don't believe in God but I don't need a t1t with a satanic church either.


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Crowley dedicated his time to translating King Solomons semi ficticious lesser key of solomon which is in fact a grimoire. a grimoire being a means to conjure bloody deamons. Crowley beleievd in them and the essence of God and the Devil.............................................Lavey did not beleive in eather.

Crowley was all but a Devil worshiper and Lavey a Satanist...massive difference


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## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Uriel im sure u are now googling away, as u did the first time around. For me Laveys writing have been massivley enlightening even though he does love his pointless rituals, his theology is perfect and without room for debate. Crowley was a whole different matter and believed in genuine magic, demons and the Devil........One is agressivley atheist and the other a Christian, as to believe in the actual devil u have to believe in the God of the chritian faith.....thats not me and not lavey im afraid


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

NickM said:


> Uriel im sure u are now googling away,


No - I was eating pizza:rolleyes:


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

If people find comfort from such beliefs then that is fine, nothing wrong with that whatsoever. My mum got massive comfort from knowing she was on the way to a better place when she was dying, and if you lot want to take away such comforts from people, to make yourselves feel better, then frankly, you are not worth much imo...why not just let people believe what they want to believe and be done with it.....ffs


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

Somthing happened to me a 13 years ago, that tells me there can be no God.

The same thing leads me to hope and pray there is.

Funny who that works, no?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

So, if spiritual beliefs make you weak, then how come believing makes you have faith?

If one was to have faith, would this make one weak?

Faith is not there to solve anything.

Faith does not blame anyone, or anything.

Faith is just that, faith, this is believing in something, kind of like an opinion.

Are opinions wrong?

You can put your faith in yourself....................cool...............

But when you fail, does your faith fail too?

Did you fail?

If faith in God makes you happy, would this be a weakness?

If so, please explain, I see this as a strength, not a weakness.....

Take your time to go deep with this, I would love to read.......


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I think Hackskii put this up a while back...hell maybe even in this thread ffs....lol

FAITH-a civil debate

As the bell rings to begin class, a Professor walks around his desk. He

pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to

stand.

Professor: "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

Michael: "Yes sir."

Professor: "So you believe in God?"

Michael: "Absolutely."

Professor: "Is God good?"

Michael: "Sure! God's good."

Professor: "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

Michael: "Yes."

Professor: "Are you good or evil?"

Michael: "The Bible says I'm evil."

The Professor, grinning: "Aha! The Bible!"

The Professor paces back and forth.

Professor: "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over

here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you

try?"

Michael: "Yes sir, I would."

Professor: "So you're good...!"

Michael interrupts: "I wouldn't say that."

Professor: "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person

if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

Michael just looks at the professor blankly.

Professor: "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of

cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus

good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

Michael remains silent.

Professor: "No, you can't, can you?"

The Professor takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the

student time to relax.

Professor: "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

Michael, hesitantly: "Er...yes."

Professor: "Is Satan good?"

Michael, without hesitation: "No."

Professor: "Then where does Satan come from?"

Michael, feeling awkward: "From God."

Professor: "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is

there evil in this world?"

Michael: "Yes, sir."

Professor: "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything,

correct?"

Michael: "Yes."

Professor: "So who created evil? If God created everything, then God

created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our

works define who we are, then God is evil."

Michael just stares at the professor with no expression.

Professor: "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these

terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

Michael, looking down at his feet: "Yes."

Professor: "So who created them?"

Michael does not answer.

Professor: "Who created them?"

Michael still will not answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to

pace in front of the classroom in front of another student. The class is

mesmerized.

Professor: "Tell me; do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

William: "Yes, professor, I do."

Professor, as he stops pacing: "Science says you have five senses you

use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen

Jesus?"

William: "No sir. I've never seen Him."

Professor: "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

William: "No, sir, I have not."

Professor: "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt

your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or

God for that matter?"

William: "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

Professor: "Yet you still believe in him?"

William: "Yes."

Professor: "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable

protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to

that, son?"

William: "Nothing. I only have my faith."

Professor: "Yes, faith; and that is the problem science has with God.

There is no evidence, only faith."

Suddenly, another student in the back of the room stands quietly for a

moment, until the professor looks in her direction.

Professor: Yes, Ashley. You have something to add to the discussion?

Ashley: "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

Professor: "Yes. There is heat."

Ashley: "And is there such a thing as cold?"

Professor: "Yes, there is cold too."

Ashley: "No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room

suddenly becomes very quiet.

Ashley: "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat,

mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't

have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to -458 degrees below zero

Fahrenheit, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder

than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to

study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or

matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total

absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the

absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal

units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir,

just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,

sounding like a hammer.

Ashley: "What about darkness, professor? Is there such a thing as

darkness?"

Professor, without hesitation: "Yes, what is night if it isn't

darkness?"

Ashley: "Again, that is inaccurate, sir. Darkness is not something; it

is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light,

bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have

nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use

to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be

able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will

be a very interesting semester.

Professor: "So what point are you making, young lady?"

Ashley: "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is

flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time.

Professor: "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

Ashley: "You are working on the premise of duality. You argue that

 there is life and then there is death; a good God and a bad God. You are

viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure.

Sir, science can not even explain a thought. It uses electricity and

magnetism, but has never been seen, much less fully understood; either

one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact

that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the

opposite of life, just the absence of it."

The professor looks stunned.

Ashley: "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they

evolved from a monkey?"

Professor: "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process,

young lady, yes, of course I do."

Ashley: "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes

where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

Ashley: "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at

work and can not even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are

you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a

preacher?"

The class is in uproar. Ashley remains silent until the commotion has

subsided.

Ashley: "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other

student, let me give you an example of what I mean." The student looks

around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the

professor's brain?"

The class breaks out into laughter.

Ashley: "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain,

felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No

one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of

empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have

no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no

brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his

face unreadable. It certainly feels like an eternity before the

professor finally speaks.

Professor: "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

Ashley: "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith

exists with life. Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Professor, now seeming a bit uncertain: "Of course, there is. We see it

everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is

in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These

manifestations are nothing else but evil."

Ashley: "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto

itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and

cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God

did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not

have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes

when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sits down at his desk, obviously in deep thought.

This is a similar transcript to a discussion that actually occurred in

a Philosophy classroom in America. The professor is now a Christian.

Michael went on to become a philosophy professor, a Christian one.

William became a pastor. Ashley became a biological engineer.


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2008)

Great posts from Scott and Robsta^^^^^ I respect everyones believes and have read much of this thread.

Only problem I have is with a previous poster who stated something along the lines that people who have faith in God are weak, blind self deceivers and use god to compensate for there self inadequecies. *Reckless statements imo....*

To answer the poll I absolutely know there is a higher power that is present in my life, to whom I call God = yes i do


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I just read that post I put up again....It really is something ain't it...I definitely pinched it off one of Scott's posts ages ago....so credit to him.... :thumb:


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

I never even read this thread coz I thought it would just annoy me, but its the middle of the night and I am still awake so wandered in here....

I absolutely believe in god but i have no interest in trying to convince others too. It works for me, nuff said. I know I am a better person for it.

That is an awesome post too..... I enjoy things that make me think :thumbup1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Guys, some of the strongest dudes I ever met in my life were faith based.

I respect all and anyones post and responces, I will not condem or pick on anyone that has a diffrent attitude/thought/dicipline/concept than myself...........

I love all you guys, all the time, every time.

I love all of you guys and girls on this board.....................


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2008)

Nothing but love for you Scott. :rockon:

....LMAO at Robsta's edit from 10:19 a.m. today (which I have no idea what time it was over there.....5 hours difference??) :thumbup1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

If I ever made anyone feel Un-comfortable, I am sorry..........

I just like people, all people..........

Dammit, I got to to go the UK, if it is the last freaking thing I do.....................

One day I might be able to understand your guys English.................I think I am proper, and all others are not-proper............lol

I like your guys language.............I think it sounds cool........

Some of your posts I cant figure out.................That sucks..................I hate asking questions.........******Don't make fun*****....lol

Had a few..............Hell, sorry...........lol


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Guys, some of the strongest dudes I ever met in my life were faith based.
> 
> I respect all and anyones post and responces, I will not condem or pick on anyone that has a diffrent attitude/thought/dicipline/concept than myself...........
> 
> ...


We Luv ya right back Hackskii :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :thumb: :thumb : :thumb:

And regarding first point.... yeah - sometimes you get surprised at the people who confess to having faith or belief in god because in this country it has now become something which is almost laughed at or ridiculed if you mention it which is a shame....... its considered extremely un-cool. One thing I noticed about South Africa is many, many more young people are openly religious and completely comfortable with it (I see references on facebook pages etc). I think thats nice and as it should be. I've never been to the States but get the impression it may be the same there?

Whatever gives us strength and helps us to lead our lives as good people is a positive thing.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

> So, if spiritual beliefs make you weak, then how come believing makes you have faith?


That doesnt make sense to me, faith is the act of having confidence or belief in an idea, theology or person/people



> If one was to have faith, would this make one weak?


I'd say it depends where you place your faith, I have faith in my own abilities and the loyalty of certian people in my life. Not an illogical postulation in the existance of an all-powerful being that will make everything all right



> Faith is not there to solve anything.


I respectfully disagree, faith in a higher power as in the case of religion, the belief in the existance of a supreme, existential power serves the purpose to solve the primary fear of all humans: the oblivion of death.



> Faith does not blame anyone, or anything.


Faith in itself doesn't blame anything, it's a logical thought process, but certianly religions blame a ton of things, namely people of other religions, look at the history between the jews and muslims or the christians and muslims. Christians blame jews for the murder of their saviour as it's written in the bible so I understand.



> Faith is just that, faith, this is believing in something, kind of like an opinion.
> 
> Are opinions wrong?


Definately yes, opinions are frequently wrong. A guy called Hitler once has an opinion that anybody who wasnt white, heterosexual and non-jewish needed to be erradicated. Then there was another guy more recently who had the opinion that tens of thousands of Curdish people needed to die through mass murder (Saddam).



> You can put your faith in yourself....................cool...............
> 
> But when you fail, does your faith fail too?
> 
> Did you fail?


It could do, temporarily until reason kicks in and an understanding of the set of conditions that led to ones failing boulsteres it. An example could be that one fails an exam, does this mean that the person is inadequate or unable to complete that exam? It will possibly feel like it for the person in question *until* their brain works out that actually, they didn't study the right areas and were performing certian calculations incorrectly as the textbook from which they had been studying has mistakes.

Essentially faith based on reason and logic is a useful tool, faith based on ancient text to me seems illogical. If in a million years a future version of humans found a copy of Lord of the Rings would that then spark a religious following?



> If faith in God makes you happy, would this be a weakness?
> 
> If so, please explain, I see this as a strength, not a weakness.....


Happiness is one of the most important things in a human life, what is the point of being alive if it's only to exist in misery. That being said if religion is the only source of a persons happiness then perhaps that person needs to rethink why they lack happiness without religion.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

There is always one thing in common with these useless threads, the ppl who don't believe always feel the need to insult and put down ppl who do believe, not often the other way round though?? funny that innit, maybe tells us the type of people who don't believe aren't very desirable


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

tel3563 said:


> There is always one thing in common with these useless threads, the ppl who don't believe always feel the need to insult and put down ppl who do believe, not often the other way round though?? funny that innit, maybe tells us the type of people who don't believe aren't very desirable


How exectly was my post insulting, i'm trying to be realistic.


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Robsta said:


> Ashley: "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto
> 
> itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and
> 
> ...


I actually think that's a fairly weak argument and probably why the whole episode never happened..

Example...If there is a god and gods creates EVERYTHING, then he made Hitler (in my example), if he made hitler and we agree that hitler was evil then god CREATED evil in this case. This evil then is not therefor a lack of god but a creation of his.

If that struck me straight away when reading that post, I'm sure a professor would have had a better retort


----------



## Squeeeze (Oct 2, 2007)

Uriel said:


> I actually think that's a fairly weak argument and probably why the whole episode never happened..
> 
> Example...If there is a god and gods creates EVERYTHING, then he made Hitler (in my example), if he made hitler and we agree that hitler was evil then god CREATED evil in this case. This evil then is not therefor a lack of god but a creation of his.
> 
> If that struck me straight away when reading that post, I'm sure a professor would have had a better retort


Think you may have missed the point there slightly Uriel. What about, Hitler didn't have god/faith in his life so was evil because of the absence of god and not because he was created evil? Incidently, I don't think anyone is born (created) evil, I think they develop it along the way.

Not a believer myself, but liked that post of Haksi's that robsta quoted.


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I haven't "missed" the point mate, just looking at it from a different slant.

The point of the post was that evil is a lack of god "in your heart" so if a snake bites a child in the throat and fills it with venom, is the snake evil...?

God creates snakes - presumably he doesn't give them free will like he has with Man so he's made an evil creature then.....

Or is is just an impartial creation of nature going about it's business like I suspect?

God created the world and all the winds, earthquakes and storms... now your not telling me they have free will so a storm that kills innocent people is an evil creation? or maybe just nature again?


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

megatron said:


> How exectly was my post insulting, i'm trying to be realistic.


"

I wasn't commenting on your last post (typical non believer, self obsessed:laugh, but on previous posts by yourself and others in this and similar threads

Just an observation mate


----------



## MarkM (Sep 24, 2008)

Robsta said:


> Ashley: "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto
> 
> itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and
> 
> ...


Thing with this is that heat and light are things that can be measured; therefore we know that the reason for "cold" and "darkness" is the absence of this variable. However, we cannot measure God so to speak, and therefore cannot say that evil is the result of the absence of God.

As for the original question, I don't beleive in God myself. Still celebrate Christmas and Easter though.


----------



## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

MarkM said:


> Thing with this is that heat and light are things that can be measured; therefore we know that the reason for "cold" and "darkness" is the absence of this variable. However, we cannot measure God so to speak, and therefore cannot say that evil is the result of the absence of God.
> 
> As for the original question, I don't beleive in God myself. Still celebrate Christmas and Easter though.


You mean at Christmas you partake in the festivity of exchanging/receiving gifts


----------



## MarkM (Sep 24, 2008)

squalllion1uk said:


> You mean at Christmas you partake in the festivity of exchanging/receiving gifts


 :lol: Yep, that's the bit I like to celebrate.


----------



## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

yes i do,but sometimes i bloody wonder with all the sh*t i seen and being a scientist!!!!

guess i had it installed into me from young about being a catholic...!!!!

but aint stopped me from being a naughty boy...and still,i wait for all my loved ones who are ill or sick to get better?????

god help me!!!


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

MarkM said:


> Thing with this is that heat and light are things that can be measured; therefore we know that the reason for "cold" and "darkness" is the absence of this variable. However, we cannot measure God so to speak, and therefore cannot say that evil is the result of the absence of God.
> 
> As for the original question, I don't beleive in God myself. Still celebrate Christmas and Easter though.


Yes, this bit's nonsense too

Ashley: "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain,

felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No

one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of

empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have

no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no

brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Plenty of human heads have been opened up to reveal a brain so as the professor belongs to that same species - that's overwhelming physical data that he too has a brain.


----------



## Dezmyster (Nov 28, 2008)

I believe in god but i dont go to church.


----------



## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

Okay look folks, people dont even believe polititians and the tabloids and TV programs that are around these days, even with millions of witness's/viewers. Can can anyone with a brain cell take any stock in a book comprised of witness accounts discussing the paranomal 2000 years ago................?


----------



## NickM (Nov 25, 2008)

I mean Kate Price and Peter andre are split up in the tabloids but together in real life and the list goes on and one. All the conspriracy theories on Diana's death, UFO's bla bla bla. I mean people believe Derek Accura on most haunted, what next people talking to god himself and writting it in a book...oh yer thats ****s been done, its called the bible


----------



## bravo9 (Nov 5, 2008)

if god beleives in me then i beleive in him


----------



## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

catagorical resounding NO!


----------



## Judas (Jan 21, 2009)

Let's face it religion is the ultimate brainwashing tool. Further more I don't believe in God.


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

Judas said:


> Let's face it religion is the ultimate brainwashing tool. Further more I don't believe in God.


brainwashing in what way?

God has one a lot of good for a lot of people whether he is real or not


----------



## marc5180 (May 31, 2007)

I'd like to believe there was something after this life to look forward to.


----------



## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

bravo9 said:


> if god beleives in me then i beleive in him


One of the few threads that dont need digging up.

Anyway how do you know god believes in you?? Talk about adding to blind faith.


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

this thread still going????? oh dear..its been resurrected..


----------



## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

I believe in Gods.

One God? No.

I believe that Gods as we have come to know them are personifications of actual forces of nature, evolution and the spiritual symbolism within them which then reflects back to us, whereby we find ourselves seeing eements of the human condition which are akin to these forces and thereby perpetuating the ease of personification.

The Norse is the closest to what I believe to be the truth.


----------



## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

I believe in the power of chalk. But a god/gods? Nope.


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

TaintedSoul said:


> One of the few threads that dont need digging up.


Just what I was thinking, this could get messy...again :whistling:

*takes cover*


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

didnt thor know the hulk?


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Gym Bunny said:


> I believe in the power of chalk. But a god/gods? Nope.


but is the pen mightier than the chalk:rolleyes:



I'd rather tyson v lee came back than this:rolleyes:


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

lee would destroy tyson


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

I knew that was coming :lol:


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

i only speak the truth


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

You can't handle the truth


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

I AM THE TRUTH


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

itraininthedark said:


> I AM THE TRUTH


Apologies for my previous post, you must handle the truth pretty often:laugh:


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

you're avvy cracks me up itraininthedark


----------



## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

DUh DUh DUh

Guys - I am GOD therefore yes I believe...

:lol:

SYKE!!


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

pastanchicken said:


> you're avvy cracks me up itraininthedark


 :lol: :lol: what about this one?


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

Hahaha! it's a good job he's on holiday!

Just had a to hold a proper belly laugh in cos I'm still at work! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

theres loads of them mate on loads of differnet threads, we should all set them as our avi's as a little returning present for him!!


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

Ha, he'd go sick!!!


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

:lol: :lol: na! he seems a really nice chappy.. :lol: :lol: i think he'd find it quite funny..


----------



## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

I'd prefer to know what God's favourite AAS is


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

:lol:

yeah, he is really. plus he'll be proper chilled out after his hols :cool2:


----------



## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

nap 1000000000000's (10 a day) and shots of 100000000000000000000kg/gallon test (eod)


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

miles2345 said:


> I'd prefer to know what God's favourite AAS is


good question


----------



## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

well what is god? did he create life? no. did he create the universe? no, so what is left for god? we can even prove the phycological and political reasons why man created god.


----------



## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

itraininthedark said:


> nap 1000000000000's (10 a day) and shots of 100000000000000000000kg/gallon test (eod)


good answer


----------



## phenom82 (Dec 30, 2008)

God means creator doesn't it. Therefore i believe there is a God.


----------



## Nathrakh (Apr 5, 2004)

If there is or isn't a God is irrelavant. Here are the options:

He/She/It doesn't exist (no need to worry)

He/She/it does exist and is a totally benign being (no need to worry, just lead a basically good life like most of us do anyway)

He/She/it does exist and actually insists on us observing all the stupid rules, rituals and other hocus pocus we've invented over the years (do you really want to spend eternity with a tosser like that??...really not worht bothering about if you ask me)


----------



## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

god is not logical, so no.

more to the point if there is a god i'm going to hell.

hmmmm wonder what's worse ceasing to exist of going to hell........ i dunno

well if there is a god lets hope he takes pity on dumb body builders rather then the religious.

...............for pain, sweat and iron are my lord, my father, my god.


----------



## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

I believe in something which I am comfortable to call God because in my limited vocabulary there is no other way to refer "It" ..and no I don't believe in a traditional way as we see around, for me it's more than just a superpower, a science that explains the inexplicable, the missing variable from all incomplete, incomprehensible equations, the one who invented the karma cycle, the super consciousness ....


----------



## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

I've already voted no, but every time I see a thread like this, or hear someone ask if I believe in a god I am reminded of the question: Is Hell Exothermic? I've posted this in the Bronze thread already, but it's so funny I'm a reposting it:



> The following is supposedly an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
> 
> Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
> 
> ...


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

God is logical


----------



## dan the man (Apr 1, 2009)

i am god believe it baby


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

ragahav said:


> I believe in something which I am comfortable to call God because in my limited vocabulary there is no other way to refer "It" ..and no I don't believe in a traditional way as we see around, for me it's more than just a superpower, a science that explains the inexplicable, the missing variable from all incomplete, incomprehensible equations, the one who invented the karma cycle, the super consciousness ....


I like this post in general, not sure what you mean by the traditional way, but i think you have summed up the rest pretty well

it also made me feel like i smoked loads of ganj when i read it


----------



## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

erics44 said:


> I like this post in general, not sure what you mean by the *traditional way*, but i think you have summed up the rest pretty well
> 
> it also made me feel like i smoked loads of ganj when i read it


thanks ..traditional ways ...ok I can go on an on about that because it includes whole political, social, anthropological and cultural gamut

but for now I would give an example like the ways we tend to define God with a religion or set of rituals etc. ...for me the concept of God is much more and vast .. ..


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Man what an old thread lol. No I don't believe in God - I don't see why anyone would other than being told he's real by their parents.


----------



## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> Man what an old thread lol. No I don't believe in God - I don't see why anyone would other than being told he's real by their parents.


I like this answer tbh and feel the same way its only whats been passed down through generations "belief"

i dont believe in anything religous or god like well apart from my AAS source now that mans a god:lol:


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

ragahav said:


> but for now I would give an example like the ways we tend to define God with a religion or set of rituals etc. ...for me the concept of God is much more and vast .. ..


i agree

but i also believe in the traditional ways too, and i know this is a slightly different subject to the angle you are coming from but the traditional way gives us (the average man) someway of focusing on God or gives us an understandable form of God

This represention of god not only helps people understand the situation - it also turns people away


----------



## Nathrakh (Apr 5, 2004)

d4ead said:


> hmmmm wonder what's worse ceasing to exist of going to hell........ i dunno


Are you worried about the times before you existed? Wouldn't have thought so, so no need to worry about the time after you exist....just my thoughts on it.


----------



## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

erics44 said:


> i agree
> 
> but i also believe in the traditional ways too, and i know this is a slightly different subject to the angle you are coming from but the traditional way gives us (the average man) someway of focusing on God or gives us an understandable form of God
> 
> This represention of god not only helps people understand the situation - it also turns people away


I hear you what you are saying buddy, infact, in a sense, I too believe in traditional way because when I close my eyes while I am praying I see the images that I have been inculcated with from my upbringing ..what I am trying to say is that I do not tie myself with these ways and for me these are the little part of the concept that I understand as God...

because I am aware that these are the manifestation of my family beliefs and my religion ...and yes these things helps average men to understand the situation and make things less complicated, at the same time I cringe to see how these things bind us and make us intolerable to see beyond the set system ...we inherit and tend to what others see God as and not what we feel or experience. I have been fortunate to get an environment where I can question and sought answer, think in my own way and enhance my understanding, create my own representation which conform to my scientific nature, the curiosity about the inexplicable things and as well as dealing with various aspects of life ..

on a different note - for me, I have found that the spiritual aspect of God is more universal and the common denominator in all the representation and beliefs of God ...


----------



## nobody (Apr 20, 2009)

no.. its a load of made up nonsence jesus was a pimp and mary was his biatch. His dad was James Brown


----------



## luke28 (Apr 27, 2009)

NO


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

It just seems so illogical to believe in something you can't see or hear and have only read about in a dusty old book written by PEOPLE. It seems like sheer arrogance that some people seem to think they have a truth that I don't, but they're only humans like me, so how can they possibly have the power to know exactly how many virgins are waiting for them when they die lol?

It's a massive simplification obv, but the idea of believing that there's an invisible man living in the sky who sees everything we do, every hour of every day seems to border on mental illness; esp if people actually claim they can hear the voice of god - that's schizophrenia.


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

ragahav said:


> I hear you what you are saying buddy, infact, in a sense, I too believe in traditional way because when I close my eyes while I am praying I see the images that I have been inculcated with from my upbringing ..what I am trying to say is that I do not tie myself with these ways and for me these are the little part of the concept that I understand as God...
> 
> because I am aware that these are the manifestation of my family beliefs and my religion ...and yes these things helps average men to understand the situation and make things less complicated, at the same time I cringe to see how these things bind us and make us intolerable to see beyond the set system ...we inherit and tend to what others see God as and not what we feel or experience. I have been fortunate to get an environment where I can question and sought answer, think in my own way and enhance my understanding, create my own representation which conform to my scientific nature, the curiosity about the inexplicable things and as well as dealing with various aspects of life ..
> 
> on a different note - for me, I have found that the spiritual aspect of God is more universal and the common denominator in all the representation and beliefs of God ...


The spiritual aspect is what gives me the pleasure


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> It just seems so illogical to believe in something you can't see or hear and have only read about in a dusty old book written by PEOPLE. It seems like sheer arrogance that some people seem to think they have a truth that I don't, but they're only humans like me, so how can they possibly have the power to know exactly how many virgins are waiting for them when they die lol?
> 
> It's a massive simplification obv, but the idea of believing that there's an invisible man living in the sky who sees everything we do, every hour of every day seems to border on mental illness; esp if people actually claim they can hear the voice of god - that's schizophrenia.


Like i said in my post earlier, i think that the dusty old book is what helps people understand something but it also turns people away

im not sure even the most hardened religious nuts believe that everything said in the Bible actually happened, i dont think it should be taken so litterally


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

I believe God made Man and Earth in its perfect form

I believe the human body, the human brain are a miracle.

I never blame God for Sin, War, Destruction, Famine etc on Earth

I believe its possible to live a good life and be a good person.


----------



## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

If anyone told you today that they were pregnant and had been impregnated by an angel you'd call them a liar or have them signed in to the psychiatric ward, so i draw my own conclusions from that.

But each to their own, i just don't believe that what is impossible could ever have happened.


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

T.F. said:


> If anyone told you today that they were pregnant and had been impregnated by an angel you'd call them a liar or have them signed in to the psychiatric ward, so i draw my own conclusions from that.
> 
> But each to their own, i just don't believe that what is impossible could ever have happened.


like i said 2 posts ago

im not sure even the most hardened religious nuts believe that everything said in the Bible actually happened, i dont think it should be taken so litterally

and i dont think thats a basis to make your descision, but like you said - each to their own


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

erics44 said:


> like i said 2 posts ago
> 
> im not sure even the most hardened religious nuts believe that everything said in the Bible actually happened, i dont think it should be taken so litterally - *God created the earth in 7 days- a day being 1000 years:thumbup1:*
> 
> and i dont think thats a basis to make your descision, but like you said - each to their own


----------



## BrokenBack (Nov 12, 2006)

so the earth is only 7000 years old now is it????????


----------



## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

and what about the tooth fairy does the god squad believe in that too.........

im a non believer-who created the creator?

evolution--------over millions of years


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> like i said 2 posts ago
> 
> im not sure even the most hardened religious nuts believe that everything said in the Bible actually happened, i dont think it should be taken so litterally
> 
> and i dont think thats a basis to make your descision, but like you said - each to their own


Then there's the issue of picking and choosing, thereby creating your own custom religion. I feel you should either accept it all or renounce your's and every single religion out there as a load of old boll0cks.


----------



## BrokenBack (Nov 12, 2006)

im going to start my own up i think...........think it would end up more of a sex cult tho lol


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

BrokenBack said:


> so the earth is only 7000 years old now is it????????


 *God created the earth in 7 days- a day being 1000 years*

*-* not sure how old the earth is though??


----------



## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

erics44 said:


> like i said 2 posts ago
> 
> im not sure even the most hardened religious nuts believe that everything said in the Bible actually happened, i dont think it should be taken so litterally
> 
> and i dont think thats a basis to make your descision, but like you said - each to their own


That's not *all* that i base my beliefs on, it's just one of the more immediately obvious fundamental flaws with religion. I base my beliefs on the millions of pieces of actual, real, evidence that points towards evolution and the fact that there are no pieces of real evidence to back up the God theory.


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

Some people can't understand how to put a flat pack togethor, pass an exam, hold down a relationship, even eat properly but are experts on all things religious.


----------



## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

I believe in something more but not the God of classical theism.


----------



## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm a legend at flat pack furniture building, have many qualifications, have been with my girlfriend for over 4 years, eat very well and am also an expert on religion 

I base my decision (to quote Rafa Benitez) on facts, not mythology. Hard evidence that people can see and draw their own conclusions from.


----------



## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

T.F. said:


> I'm a legend at flat pack furniture building, have many qualifications, have been with my girlfriend for over 4 years, eat very well and am also an expert on religion
> 
> I base my decision (to quote Rafa Benitez) on facts, not mythology. Hard evidence that people can see and draw their own conclusions from.


Thats My Boy:thumb:


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Pelayo said:


> *God created the earth in 7 days- a day being 1000 years*
> 
> *-* not sure how old the earth is though??


The scientific community has it around 4.5 billion years. Not sure about the Christian science community though - I've heard 6000 years quoted a lot though. Baffles the mind.


----------



## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> The scientific community has it around 4.5 billion years. Not sure about the Christian science community though - I've heard 6000 years quoted a lot though. Baffles the mind.


It is a view held by some not all Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

StJocKIII said:


> It is a view held by some not all Christians.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism


Just the crazy ones then? :lol:


----------



## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> Just the crazy ones then? :lol:


They are all crazy.

Just kidding.

Honestly.


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

T.F. said:


> That's not *all* that i base my beliefs on, it's just one of the more immediately obvious fundamental flaws with religion. I base my beliefs on the millions of pieces of actual, real, evidence that points towards evolution and the fact that there are no pieces of real evidence to back up the God theory.


were not talking about religion we are talking about God


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> Then there's the issue of picking and choosing, thereby creating your own custom religion. I feel you should either accept it all or renounce your's and every single religion out there as a load of old boll0cks.


i dont think theres anything wrong with people taking from it what they can, the more good it does the better

and there many people in the world who closely follow a religion who dont think that they are boll0x, what makes you right and them wrong?


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

paulo said:


> and what about the tooth fairy does the god squad believe in that too.........
> 
> im a non believer-who created the creator?
> 
> evolution--------over millions of years


Do you not believe in the tooth fairy?

the idea isnt evolution verses god made the earth

the idea is god lended a hand


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

T.F. said:


> That's not *all* that i base my beliefs on, it's just one of the more immediately obvious fundamental flaws with religion. I base my beliefs on the millions of pieces of actual, real, evidence that points towards evolution and the fact that there are no pieces of real evidence to back up the God theory.


you are getting into a new debate now

your vision of science is built around the "hard evidence" that scientists have collected over the last centuries yes? the earth is round, it flys round the sun in a solar system made up of 9 planets, the universe started from the big bang, etc etc

500 years ago people believed the world was flat, if you were to go back and tell them it aint its round do you think they would accept it?

do you think in 500 years time all your scientific beliefs now will still stand strong then?

if the future man could hear about today's scientist's rules and perceptions they would probably laugh as we would at the perceptions of 500 years ago

is your "hard evidence" really hard evidence?


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> Do you not believe in the tooth fairy?
> 
> the idea isnt evolution verses god made the earth
> 
> the idea is god lended a hand


The tooth fairy is a very good analogy. There's about as much evidence for the tooth fairy as there is for god, yet we accept one to be untrue and one the be the only truth.


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> The tooth fairy is a very good analogy. There's about as much evidence for the tooth fairy as there is for god, yet we accept one to be untrue and one the be the only truth.


I think there is a lot of evidence that there is a god, and i think that thats what we are discussing


----------



## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

erics44 said:


> you are getting into a new debate now
> 
> your vision of science is built around the "hard evidence" that scientists have collected over the last centuries yes? the earth is round, it flys round the sun in a solar system made up of 9 planets, the universe started from the big bang, etc etc
> 
> ...


The earth being flat thing is quite exaggerated. Some of our scientific beliefs may not stand strong in five hundred years, but the theories we have now are backed up by some form of evidence, proven as best as we currently can.

What can religion prove?


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

StJocKIII said:


> The earth being flat thing is quite exaggerated. Some of our scientific beliefs may not stand strong in five hundred years, but the theories we have now are backed up by some form of evidence, proven as best as we currently can.
> 
> What can religion prove?


best as we currently can - this is my point

the science of 500 years ago was proved as best as they currently could and it turned out to be boll0x

you would be naive to think that our science isnt boll0x too

and the earth being flat isnt exaggerated as that was what they thought was true


----------



## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

Science is based on observation, experimentation and logical thought ...Religion is based on made up stuff!!


----------



## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

erics44 said:


> best as we currently can - this is my point
> 
> the science of 500 years ago was proved as best as they currently could and it turned out to be boll0x
> 
> ...


Yeah some of it turned out to be bollocks, it was found out to be bollocks by scientists searching for answers and explanations. Much like is going on now. I don't get your point, do you expect us to just sit back and wait for the answers?


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

18spike18 said:


> 500 years ago we didnt have the technoligy to prove much did we, this arguement holds no water, in 500 years i dont think we will be larfed at, it will more likely be thought of as the time when alot of important **** was found out.


do we have the technology now do we?

500 years ago we made some important discoveries also

my argument stands strong like a jug of holy water from babilon


----------



## PHHead (Aug 20, 2008)

I believe in God, I just choose not to worship him..............


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> I think there is a lot of evidence that there is a god, and i think that thats what we are discussing


I haven't read all 47 pages of the thread, so if you could just bullet point the genuine, bonafide evidence which pretty much proves there is a god, that'd help me out  . Don't bother with the vague stuff though  .


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

StJocKIII said:


> Yeah some of it turned out to be bollocks, it was found out to be bollocks by scientists searching for answers and explanations. Much like is going on now. I don't get your point, do you expect us to just sit back and wait for the answers?


i dont understand your question sorry

but my point is that the understanding of the earth, evolution, science, the big bang will definately be completely different in 500 years to what it is now, as it is now to what it was 500 years ago


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

18spike18 said:


> if you was diagnosed with some sort of terminal illness would you turn around and say 'i would be naive to think your science can prove this'
> 
> or would you be thinking o **** o **** and be hoping and prayin that there is the SCIENCE to give you a longer life ?
> 
> i think your quite naive, and probably a conspirace theory enthusiast.


we are talking about the evolution and religion not medicine

although its a reasonable comparison as today's medical science is quite advance, although it continues to advance and in as little as 30 years a lot of today's terminal cancers will no longer be terminal

50 years ago diabeties was terminal


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> we are talking about the evolution and religion not medicine
> 
> although its a reasonable comparison as today's medical science is quite advance, although it continues to advance and in as little as 30 years a lot of today's terminal cancers will no longer be terminal
> 
> *50 years ago diabeties was terminal*


Yeah and religion did fcuk all to help with that did it? :lol:

So we're cool to let science cure diseases and lead to technology which improves every aspect of our every day life, we just don't trust it to explain how the earth formed and need to conjour up some sort of angry, invisible god for that?


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> I haven't read all 47 pages of the thread, so if you could just bullet point the genuine, bonafide evidence which pretty much proves there is a god, that'd help me out  . Don't bother with the vague stuff though  .


  i havent either

what about the day jesus parted the waves? thats decent evidence


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

if there is a god (which there isn't) he is supposed to have created mankind with the sole purpose of worshiping him...now to me this sounds like a total megalamaniac, a sort supernatural invisible Sadam Husien....not someone I want to spend eternity with!


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## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

erics44 said:


> i dont understand your question sorry
> 
> but my point is that the understanding of the earth, evolution, science, the big bang will definately be completely different in 500 years to what it is now, as it is now to what it was 500 years ago


I though evolution would be coming up, out of interest are you playing devil's advocate or are these your beliefs?

Small intracacies of evolution may differ but the theory will stand fast. I don't believe this is a naive assumption, the fossil record, DNA, the fact is has been shown in a lab. I think its a pretty safe bet.

Cheers


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> Yeah and religion did fcuk all to help with that did it? :lol:
> 
> So we're cool to let science cure diseases and lead to technology which improves every aspect of our every day life, we just don't trust it to explain how the earth formed and need to conjour up some sort of angry, invisible god for that?


God lent a hand to evolution, pushed it in the right direction

i dont think hes angry tho, hes probly a laugh


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> i havent either
> 
> what about the day jesus parted the waves? thats decent evidence


I'm sorry evidence? What sort of evidence is there of that ever happening? Is it written in the bible? Surely even a monkey realises that that book was written by people and everything in it is either made up or exaggerated.

If that's what counts as evidence though, I have evidence that Harry Potter genuinely attended Hogwarts school of wizadry.


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

there is no God but there definately is a tooth fairy...how else does that coin get under my pillow??


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

18spike18 said:


> but does that mean the science of 50 years ago was bo llux ? as you said in another post. no. it means it has advanced.
> 
> you have just agrees with me and said it advances, not that it is bollux.


I may have said it was boll0x but i was using someone elses way of decribing things

bollox is a harsh way of looking at it but its wasnt exactly accurate

we thought the earth was flat, we advanced then realised it was round and thought the sun went round us, we advanced and realised we went round the sun, then we advanced and realised there were more planets going round the sun, etc etc

all im saying is todays science gives hard evidence for nothing as in 500 years we will advance and realise things are a bit different


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> God lent a hand to evolution, pushed it in the right direction
> 
> i dont think hes angry tho, hes probly a laugh


I heard he was an angry jealous god. In fact, isn't that written in the bible (you know, the book of facts)?


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

erics44 said:


> I may have said it was boll0x but i was using someone elses way of decribing things
> 
> bollox is a harsh way of looking at it but its wasnt exactly accurate
> 
> ...


If there was no science we would still think the world was flat. Religion has done nothing to advance us as a society; if anything it's holding us back. Hopefully it will eventually be eradicated from our society (naturally I mean).


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> I'm sorry evidence? What sort of evidence is there of that ever happening? Is it written in the bible? Surely even a monkey realises that that book was written by people and everything in it is either made up or exaggerated.
> 
> If that's what counts as evidence though, I have evidence that Harry Potter genuinely attended Hogwarts school of wizadry.


 

i dont really believe that jesus parted the waves

but thats why a lot of people dont follow or believe in or laugh at the idea of god because they think that people that do believe in him do believe in that sort of stuff too


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> If there was no science we would still think the world was flat. Religion has done nothing to advance us as a society; if anything it's holding us back. Hopefully it will eventually be eradicated from our society (naturally I mean).


im not sure i agree with the idea it hasnt done anything to help, and some religions seem extreme and do see to cause more harm than good

again tho thats another debate, we are talking about God in this one and now God versus evolution


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## Mikazagreat (Apr 10, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> If there was no science we would still think the world was flat. Religion has done nothing to advance us as a society; if anything it's holding us back. Hopefully it will eventually be eradicated from our society (naturally I mean).


If god is really there i would still NOT BELIVE IN HIM, this is one hell of a totally ****ed up RELIGION THING.

I grown up in a socity that mix between muslims and christians and learn everything about all religions cause i struggle in the 3 of them and belive me it's TOTAL ****.

i got 1 thing to show u about god


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

StJocKIII said:


> I though evolution would be coming up, out of interest are you playing devil's advocate or are these your beliefs?
> 
> Small intracacies of evolution may differ but the theory will stand fast. I don't believe this is a naive assumption, the fossil record, DNA, the fact is has been shown in a lab. I think its a pretty safe bet.
> 
> Cheers


like i said its not God verses evolution its the idea that God lent a hand

I do believe in God

i also believe in science and im not sure the theory will stand fast, the big bang and evolution theories as they currently stand have only been around for 50 years or so, theres most probably a lot of room for improvement


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Mikazagreat said:


> If god is really there i would still NOT BELIVE IN HIM, this is one hell of a totally ****ed up RELIGION THING.
> 
> I grown up in a socity that mix between muslims and christians and learn everything about all religions cause i struggle in the 3 of them and belive me it's TOTAL ****.
> 
> i got 1 thing to show u about god


 its not god or religion thats bad, its people that are bad


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Nathrakh said:


> Are you worried about the times before you existed? Wouldn't have thought so, so no need to worry about the time after you exist....just my thoughts on it.


more accurate way to say it,

wonder what im more scared off ceasing to exist or going to hell.

i always had the feeling if i went to hell id rule the place in a month for so


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

Im Buddhist as such i dont believe in a creator GOD who makes rules,reward the people who follow him and punish the people who dont.

We are all gods and sometime we ALL BE BUDDHAS (=ENLIGHTEMENT) just for the time being give help ,love and compassion to everyone,.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

that started off quite clever and ended in rambling that made no logical seance at all.

i mean any 8 year old knows that dark is an absence of light

cold is just lack of heat

but how does that reflect anything other then death is an absence of life.

all of which seem like simple open close statements to me.

as as for have you seen, smelt or touched the professors brain. totally irrelevant as yes we have touched and manipulated many peoples brains and that's how we discovered what they did.

I was hoping it was going to make some kind of point but it failed.

peoples problems with god dont come from a simple faith of something out there. The problems start when people let that faith take over there daily lives.

Dont get me wrong i mean everybody should try to be a nice person, as that makes common seance in the way we all get along.

We now know factually that the bible was basically cobbled together from different scriptures, then 500 years after the crusifiction they decided to add the bit about Jesus coming back to life, and remove some of the more earthly bits, Thats pretty well documented.

So there can be little question that Christianity is pants, as in there core bible. That however does not discard god.

Science has proven there are many things that science has no answer for. YET

after all the years i let my necrophilia get the better of me, i hope there is no after life or ill have a heap of angry ladys waiting for me.

just remember girls 'not 1 of you said NO'



Robsta said:


> I think Hackskii put this up a while back...hell maybe even in this thread ffs....lol
> 
> FAITH-a civil debate
> 
> ...


----------



## scot.r111 (Mar 25, 2009)

I believe there is a higher power and that higher power is extra-terrestrial (ET). Our ancestors are from a distant galaxy and they put us here as an experiment to see how long it would take for us to blow each other up. They are what we refer to as god....honest.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Mikazagreat said:


> If god is really there i would still NOT BELIVE IN HIM, this is one hell of a totally ****ed up RELIGION THING.
> 
> I grown up in a socity that mix between muslims and christians and learn everything about all religions cause i struggle in the 3 of them and belive me it's TOTAL ****.
> 
> i got 1 thing to show u about god


I will rep you cos I fcuking love George Carlin and that is one of my favourite ever clips!


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

scot.r111 said:


> I believe there is a higher power and that higher power is extra-terrestrial (ET). Our ancestors are from a distant galaxy and they put us here as an experiment to see how long it would take for us to blow each other up. They are what we refer to as god....honest.


Can't argue with that...they made a film about your god. Has to be real :lol:


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Kezz said:


> its not god or religion thats bad, its people that are bad


to be fair

god made evil

god made us

god gave us the capacity to do evil

god then gave us free will (even though god new what wed do with it)

god made the devil, what a great move that was 

im afraid the whole world has not yet evolved to a point where we can accept the other half is going to hell. I think that's the main problem with religions, if you dont believe in each one your going to there version of hell.

Well except scientology, thats a cracker. Invented by an author of science fiction tat was quoted as saying, this writeing is all well and good but if you want to make real money invent a religion. to make it simple they worship an alien that crash landed here.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

I must say, I'm glad we can debate this in a mature way without the mods having to step in. I've been in my fair share of religious debates in that past, and I often come across as very disparaging towards religion, but that's just cos it's something I have a lot of beef with. Let the debate continue tho, everyone's being very polite about it  .


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

incidentally Ashley would be going to hell according to her bible


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

d4ead said:


> to be fair
> 
> god made evil
> 
> ...


That's why I find it so crazy. Someone's got it seriously wrong here. Could it be...all of them?


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> I must say, I'm glad we can debate this in a mature way without the mods having to step in. I've been in my fair share of religious debates in that past, and I often come across as very disparaging towards religion, but that's just cos it's something I have a lot of beef with. Let the debate continue tho, everyone's being very polite about it  .


religion is total tosh all believers are ****s and gods cause wars :whistling: :ban:


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

d4ead said:


> religion is total tosh all believers are ****s and gods cause wars :whistling: :ban:


LOL negged! :lol:


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

d4ead said:


> to be fair
> 
> god made evil
> 
> ...


Why would God make Evil?

Thats like saying you build your own home, have kids, teach them to be evil, let them wreck your home and sit back and watch it happen because you gave them the capacity to do it, why would you do that?


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

If God didn't create evil, yet he is the creator of *all* things, then who did create it? And don't say the devil, because the devil had not the ability to create, there was nothing before God created it, therefore God must have created evil too?


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## BlitzAcez (Mar 6, 2008)

No god is not real, I have researched into this alot and have come to that conclusion, obviously it's my opinion.


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

T.F. said:


> If God didn't create evil, yet he is the creator of *all* things, then who did create it? And don't say the devil, because the devil had not the ability to create, there was nothing before God created it, therefore God must have created evil too?


I just feel its a pretty sweeping statement to put God and Evil in the same sentance. Who do we thank for Life? The Sun, the moon, the air we breathe, the food we eat, the miracle of childbirth, who made all these things possible? For some of us its God, for some of us its evolution, the big bang theory etc etc...its my view that certain things can't just happen, there has to be a creator, and i ask again, why create this earth and Man to inhabit it and then allow it to be slowly destroyed?


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

BlitzAcez said:


> No god is not real, I have researched into this alot and have come to that conclusion, obviously it's my opinion.


Would that be the same God mentioned in your Avi?


----------



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Pelayo said:


> I just feel its a pretty sweeping statement to put God and Evil in the same sentance. Who do we thank for Life? The Sun, the moon, the air we breathe, the food we eat, the miracle of childbirth, who made all these things possible? For some of us its God, for some of us its evolution, the big bang theory etc etc...its my view that certain things can't just happen, there has to be a creator, and i ask again, why create this earth and Man to inhabit it and then allow it to be slowly destroyed?


Childbirth isn't a miracle, it's a chemical reaction; a scientific process. If it was a miracle it wouldn't happen thousands of times a day. Every living thing on this planet needs to reproduce, I don't see how god has anything to do with it.

It just seems that when people don't have an answer for something they just stick "god" in there to fill the gap. God just complicates everything, science is a much simpler and more believable explanation.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

No single thing has prevented the progression of the human race more than religion.


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## scot.r111 (Mar 25, 2009)

Amen to that....


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> Childbirth isn't a miracle, it's a chemical reaction; a scientific process. If it was a miracle it wouldn't happen thousands of times a day. Every living thing on this planet needs to reproduce, I don't see how god has anything to do with it.
> 
> It just seems that when people don't have an answer for something they just stick "god" in there to fill the gap. God just complicates everything, science is a much simpler and more believable explanation.


Childbirth isn't a miracle?.....wow.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Pelayo said:


> Childbirth isn't a miracle?.....wow.


An invisible man lives in the sky and can see everything we're doing...OMFG!


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Yes I believe in God.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

P.S. a miracle = "A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can be explained by divine intervention, and is sometimes associated with a miracle-worker."

In what way is childbirth an interruption of the laws of nature? It's one of the most natural processes there is. What the fcuk are you on?


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> No single thing has prevented the progression of the human race more than religion.


 in what way?? it seems that most people arent religious ?


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## BlitzAcez (Mar 6, 2008)

Pelayo said:


> Would that be the same God mentioned in your Avi?


Yeah I guess it would.


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> P.S. a miracle = "A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can be explained by divine intervention, and is sometimes associated with a miracle-worker."
> 
> In what way is childbirth an interruption of the laws of nature? It's one of the most natural processes there is. What the fcuk are you on?


Yes, I believe in God.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Pelayo said:


> Yes, I believe in God.


I didn't ask.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> in what way?? it seems that most people arent religious ?


Let's be realistic here, religious bodies have, and always will hinder scinetific progress from Galileo to the US governments avoidance of stem cell research and current education of "creationisim" in schools.

It makes me sad to be part of the human race.


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> I didn't ask.


No u didn't but I thought it best to clarify where I'm comming from.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

megatron said:


> Let's be realistic here, religious bodies have, and always will hinder scinetific progress from Galileo to the US governments avoidance of stem cell research and current education of "creationisim" in schools.
> 
> It makes me sad to be part of the human race.


 well i supposes so, even they will have a tiny doubt in the back of their mind


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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> P.S. a miracle = "A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can be explained by divine intervention, and is sometimes associated with a miracle-worker."
> 
> *In what way is childbirth an interruption of the laws of nature? It's one of the most natural processes there is. What the fcuk are you on?*


Just to be clear I am not trying to convince you (or any other) to believe in God here.....

A miracle need not always be inexplicable and certainly the definition above is not a sufficient one ...

Just because you understand something doesn't make it less then a miracle. You know human body, you see it's alive, you know that the heart pumps to keep the body alive but is it not less then a miracle - such an intelligently functioning unit, our body. One can say that heart keeps the body alive but what is it that keeps the heart alive, what is it that makes the heart pump ..if you go on a micro level, science defines variables to identify something as living or non - living but how can one not help wondering who made those elements so vital...

you are easily saying "laws of nature" but where have these laws came form, who defined them.....

a miracle can be something be as esoteric and inexplicable as the mysteries like dual nature of light or as simple as child birth ...


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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

I think most of the posts in this thread is digressing. The question was whether one believes in God or not ..now one does not have to believe in Bible, Quaran or any other religious philosophy or even hell, heaven etc. to say that they believe in God ...I think the question was mainly whether or not you believe that there is someone, call it God, superpower or unnamed, inexplicable something ...


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

i believe there is something else, yes


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Kezz said:


> i believe there is something else, yes


I think the possibility of life on another planet may be there, but I've seen no evidence so cannot say that I "believe" this. As for believing there's some supernatural force out there, I don't believe it at all. Why would I?


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

AlasTTTair said:


> I think the possibility of life on another planet may be there, but I've seen no evidence so cannot say that I "believe" this. As for believing there's some supernatural force out there, I don't believe it at all. Why would I?


 why not?? you never know


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## Incredibl3Bulk (May 6, 2008)

Tbh im not particually open minded towards religion, i dont mean to offend because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I believe that it is all a load of tosh, i believe there is no god, jesus (if he existed?) was just a chippy and i also believe that when you are dead you are mearly worm food! I think that it is all a case of Chinese Wispers that got blown way out of proportion!


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Kezz said:


> why not?? you never know


LOL why not? :lol:

I have never heard, seen or experienced "god" in any way. Why on Earth would I believe in something that there's no evidence for and I've never seen? You're rational in every area of your life except this.

You don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster do you? Well why not?


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

megatron said:


> No single thing has prevented the progression of the human race more than religion.


this is a crazy statement

but if it is the case you could also argue that no single thing has helped the progression of the human race more than religion

anyway as stated before we are talking about god not religion


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

my comment on god making evil is from the Christian faith. god made his angels inc. his right hand man so to speak this angel turned on god and become the devil. God cast him form heaven.

one is to assume as he knows everything, he knew that he was making the devil when he made him, thus he chose to make evil.

this is of course not right by all religions i was just useing the Christian faith as a bench mark.

someone asked that's why im replying....

my parents are very Christian, i was brought up in catholic schools, i also have many friends that are ministers. Whom i enjoy banter with


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

the bible shouldnt be taken so literally

im not sure even the most hardened religious people actually believe that god had a mate who grew horns and turned into the devil


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

is god and region not tied? especially to those with a faith?

if we want to split them then my viw is

god if fine

religion is not


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

eric i think your being to literal, that description of the devil is not documented, in that case you could say god is a burning bush, as thats the only real physical description of him.

but yes Christians believe that god made the devil, made evil, and then gave us free will.

which was all i was saying in my post.


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

yes they are linked

but the merits of religion is another discussion


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## Paul08 (Mar 20, 2009)

d4ead said:


> if we want to split them then my viw is
> 
> god if fine
> 
> religion is not


Ive always sort of mocked people who believe in God and go to church. However, one of my new years resolutions this year was to try church and i havent missed a Sunday since January. I go by myself and im the youngest person there by about 20 years. As far as I can see most the people there seem really nice and friendly, they made me feel welcome, so i dont agree that religion is not fine. I have Muslim friends, a Hindu friend and my girlfriend is Catholic and all have alot of respect for other people. More so than my friends who arnt religious.

Since January i feel i judge people less now. Im also alot less concerned about what people think of me because i understand there are more important things.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

oh and i also believe in aliens, i think its daft not too. As at least there logical. Not so sure about them wasting time visiting us but heh.


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

d4ead said:


> eric i think your being to literal, that description of the devil is not documented, in that case you could say god is a burning bush, as thats the only real physical description of him.
> 
> but yes Christians believe that god made the devil, made evil, and then gave us free will.
> 
> which was all i was saying in my post.


like i say, im not sure even the most religious christains in the world actually believe that God was a burning bush

but you are right, christians believed God made everything which, in a not so black and white way, I believe too

bt you dont need to believe in any of that to be a christian and believe in God


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

i have nothing against meeting places for like minded people.

however religion is an excuse for unthinkable evil.



Paul08 said:


> Ive always sort of mocked people who believe in God and go to church. However, one of my new years resolutions this year was to try church and i havent missed a Sunday since January. I go by myself and im the youngest person there by about 20 years. As far as I can see most the people there seem really nice and friendly, they made me feel welcome, so i dont agree that religion is not fine. I have Muslim friends, a Hindu friend and my girlfriend is Catholic and all have alot of respect for other people. More so than my friends who arnt religious.
> 
> Since January i feel i judge people less now. Im also alot less concerned about what people think of me because i understand there are more important things.


----------



## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

you get evil people in all walks of life

you obviously see both sides of the argument tho


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## scot.r111 (Mar 25, 2009)

d4ead said:


> oh and i also believe in aliens, i think its daft not too. As at least there logical. Not so sure about them wasting time visiting us but heh.


So is it possible that God could be described as an alien or is he/she a higher being. I think any alien of far advanced knowledge/technology could be seen by us as a god, or in fact any way they chose to be seen.

There have been times on this planet where the technological advances of a society (egytians, incas etc) do not fit into the rest of the world. How did that happen and why did it not continue, was there an influence of a higher power.

I stand by my earlier claim that God is an Extra Terrestrial.....honest

Stargate.com


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Eric,

Yes you do have to believe all that to be christian. If you don't you are just forming your own religion based on that faith.

Its the same as non catholic christians believe catholics are going to hell.

Catholics pray to mary, mother og god. This is considered praying to a false god as as they don't repent for that sin, its off to hell thet go...

I had the pleasure of watching a couple of priests enjoying a debate once that was similar toan earlyer argument here. It went along the lines of hell is just the absence of god, and the nevel is just not having god in your life. The other priest got him thrown out of the church as a heritic quoting 'the greatest trick the devil ever performs is convinceing people he does not exist'

Shame the prist that was booted was a friend and a good man, buut apparently not achristian.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Yes I believe we may well have been influenced by aliens or maybe even porpergated by them.

But then much like stargate that does not make them gods, just more advanced.

I think of god as a supreme being over all, with no phisicle form.

What to you people think of dark matter? The most abundant thing in the universe but we have no idea what it is.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Let's start a new thread. Do you believe in aliens?


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

yep, yup and yes...


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

Hmm i think the religious aspect is a lot of horse sh!t but i believe in god and my fellow man as well. As its said we have our free will and to be honest the suffering is cause by people not by god but we blame god? I dont rely on god to change things and rather believe that god is going to change is mind and save us all.

Went to catholic school hated religion etc till i was about 16.

I possibly maybe have already posted in here


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

As we come to learn more about how the human body works, and complexities of what goes on, what the hell could've have created us?? And if there is a god, he/she must be a complete idiot, as he created the liver to make cholestrol which kills off another organ, the heart.

That was a metaphor in case you missed it. Meaning, there is nothing wrong with cholesterol, and there aint a frickin god!

IMO its a load of horse crap!


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

I think we are the Aliens... :confused1:


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## scot.r111 (Mar 25, 2009)

d4ead said:


> Let's start a new thread. Do you believe in aliens?


I'll go for that...


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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

squalllion1uk said:


> Hmm i think the religious aspect is a lot of horse sh!t but i believe in god and my fellow man as well. As its said we have our free will and to be honest the suffering is cause by people not by god but we blame god? I dont rely on god to change things and rather believe that god is going to change is mind and save us all.
> 
> Went to catholic school hated religion etc till i was about 16.
> 
> I possibly maybe have already posted in here


I think the word which is throwing everyone off the topic is "God" itself because what I am seeing here is that people are likening the term "God" with religion which infact is wrong. God is not religion. The various religions are individual interpretation of God. You don't have to follow a religion to believe in God. Do we all have same favorite music, No,

..similarly these various interpretations can't be acceptable to everyone.

I believe in something that makes sense to me for all the inexplicable and fascinating things which goes unnoticed to unaware mind .. as stated in my earlier post


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## 6108 (Jun 26, 2007)




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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> As we come to learn more about how the human body works, and complexities of what goes on, what the hell could've have created us?? And if there is a god, he/she must be a complete idiot, as he created the liver to make cholestrol which kills off another organ, the heart.
> 
> That was a metaphor in case you missed it. Meaning, there is nothing wrong with cholesterol, and there aint a frickin god!
> 
> IMO its a load of horse crap!


mate if you are basing your argument on something, do check up the veracity of it before...DO you even know that"Cholesterol is a very necessary stuff. It's converted into Vitamin D by sunlight, and it's the precursor for steroid hormones like the testosterone you need to grow, and the estrogen women need to be feminine."

The case of high cholesterol ....

" Unlikely. The body is an extremely intelligent and adaptive organism. Under some conditions, it could conceivably manufacture too much of something, but a more likely cause is that the manufactured cholesterol isn't being used, which leads to an accumulating excess.........Since cholesterol is needed to make testosterone, and testosterone functions in conjunction with growth hormone, it is likely that the signal to release growth hormone also triggers the production of cholesterol. If something interferes with the production or use of testosterone or growth hormone, then the body would keep signaling for it, and the liver would keep generating it. The result would be an oversupply of cholesterol."

What you said was a specific case of an individual body with a specific case history, you cannot generalize it for everyone ..


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

therefore, god created test, fast cars, beer, all the lovely stuff in the world... he's a good guy in my book, thank you lord for nitrous oxide, super forced induction adrenaline.......... ah fun  amen


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

d4ead said:


> Eric
> 
> Yes you do have to believe all that to be christian. If you don't you are just forming your own religion based on that faith.


What do you see as believing all that is christian?

Do you mean because i dont believe God was a burning bush I have created my own religion?

Like I said before, its that misconception of christians/church goers (that they all believe that God was a burning bush) that drives people away.

To look at a conversation about evolution that we have already had in this thread, people who mock these beliefs also believe that everyone who goes to church is stupid for believing that God made man

Which is fair enough but these are the same people who are also so sure that their perception of the scientific world is accurate.

In 500 years time today's perception of science will sound just as stupid as the idea that God made man, just like scientific ideas 500 years ago sound as stupid. Which is more believable - God made man or the earth is flat and if you sail too far you fall off the end?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

Science does not have accurate answers, but it does have have better accuracy than conclusions drawn from other methods.

That said, I believe in Aesculapius, because he affords utility to me, and he is my best mate.

J


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

science will never have answers to the supernatural, well i hope not anyway


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

Joshua said:


> Science does not have accurate answers, but it does have have better accuracy than conclusions drawn from other methods.
> 
> That said, I believe in Aesculapius, because he affords utility to me, and he is my best mate.
> 
> J


does science have more accurate answers?

in 500 years time people will probably look back at many of the scientific conclusions of today and think they are as stupid as the idea that a gray old man sat in the clouds made the earth and all the living creatures on it


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## B-GJ0E (Nov 4, 2008)

ragahav said:


> mate if you are basing your argument on something, do check up the veracity of it before...DO you even know that"Cholesterol is a very necessary stuff. It's converted into Vitamin D by sunlight, and it's the precursor for steroid hormones like the testosterone you need to grow, and the estrogen women need to be feminine."
> 
> The case of high cholesterol ....
> 
> ...


I think you totally missed my point. My point was that I know all about cholesterol, and that is not the bad substance we have had rammed down our throats for the past 50 years. It is actually a pre-cursor for pregnanolone which then converts to testosterone, or progesterone. I was being facetious. I was using cholesterol as a case in point to prove that god doesn't exist, it was a metaphor. I have read a lot on the subject of cholestrol and saturated fats, namely, Trick And Treat, Barry Groves. Good Calories Bad Calories, Gary Taubes. And The Great Cholesterol Con. I HATE the healthy eating campaigners with their carb based, low fat, diet. We are fed so much crap, just because some idiot, namely Ancel Keys made a wrong connection between saturated fats, cholesterol and heart disease. I even hate it when i read knowlegable bodybuilding articles about the benefits of Omega 6's and 9's, and slate saturated fat. Them Omega 6's are bad ****. Anyway, i'm going way off topic, I just wanted you know that I am NOT part of the brigade of people blind to cholesterol scam that is making fortunes for pharmeceutical companies manufacturing unecessary statin drugs.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

erics44 said:


> does science have more accurate answers?
> 
> in 500 years time people will probably look back at many of the scientific conclusions of today and think they are as stupid as the idea that a gray old man sat in the clouds made the earth and all the living creatures on it


Are answers more accurate? Sometimes. Is it perfect? No. However as a reasoning system, science is more reliable for consistently getting the best answers. If a method of forecasting is shown to be consistently more reliable than the best by existing scientific methods, the chances are that science will rapidly adopt, investigate and develop it.

I would agree that in 500years people will look back and think that we were stupid, in a similar way to how modern man looks back to the horrors perpetrated in witch hunts and in the name of heresy.

J


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Kezz said:


> therefore, god created test, fast cars, beer, all the lovely stuff in the world... he's a good guy in my book, thank you lord for nitrous oxide, super forced induction adrenaline.......... ah fun  amen


Then "god" must have also created cancer, rapists, cot death, politics...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

B|GJ0E said:


> I just wanted you know that I am NOT part of the brigade of people blind to cholesterol scam that is making fortunes for pharmeceutical companies manufacturing unecessary statin drugs.


Amen to that.

I know something that will be equal or grater than lowering bad cholesterol than statin drugs.

Oh, and it is totally natural solable fiber equal to 20 apples of fiber per serving.

It lowers cholesterol so well my buddy went to the doctor after he was on this for 6 weeks and the doctor said he could not do what that guy did....lol


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Amen to that.
> 
> I know something that will be equal or grater than lowering bad cholesterol than statin drugs.
> 
> ...


and..?


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

Joshua said:


> Are answers more accurate? Sometimes. Is it perfect? No. However as a reasoning system, science is more reliable for consistently getting the best answers. If a method of forecasting is shown to be consistently more reliable than the best by existing scientific methods, the chances are that science will rapidly adopt, investigate and develop it.
> 
> I would agree that in 500years people will look back and think that we were stupid, in a similar way to how modern man looks back to the horrors perpetrated in witch hunts and in the name of heresy.
> 
> J


if you agree what are we discussing? does science have the answers or doesnt it? and what does you last sentence mean?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

cellaratt said:


> and..?


Its called bios Life 2.


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Its called bios Life 2.


Thank You...


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

> if you agree what are we discussing?


I do not know if there is agreement. If you agree with what I wrote then you can assume there is agreement if you wish.



> Does science have the answers or doesnt it?


It has some answers to some of the questions asked. Not all the answers are right.

I would prefer to use science to diagnose an unusual lump on my body, than ask mystic meg's advice line or tarot cards or leave it in the hands of the gods.

Personally I would be more than happy with evidence based medicine to diagnose and treat me, however Aesculapius can give me a triple dose of placebo to wash down the medicine.



> And what does you last sentence mean?


That I agree with your assertion that when we look back things generally look crude (whether it be medieval science or our hair styles that were fashionable when we were kids ) - it is the symmetry reflecting society's progress.

J


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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

B|GJ0E said:


> I think you totally missed my point. My point was that I know all about cholesterol, and that is not the bad substance we have had rammed down our throats for the past 50 years. It is actually a pre-cursor for pregnanolone which then converts to testosterone, or progesterone. I was being facetious. I was using cholesterol as a case in point to prove that god doesn't exist, it was a metaphor. I have read a lot on the subject of cholestrol and saturated fats, namely, Trick And Treat, Barry Groves. Good Calories Bad Calories, Gary Taubes. And The Great Cholesterol Con. I HATE the healthy eating campaigners with their carb based, low fat, diet. We are fed so much crap, just because some idiot, namely Ancel Keys made a wrong connection between saturated fats, cholesterol and heart disease. I even hate it when i read knowlegable bodybuilding articles about the benefits of Omega 6's and 9's, and slate saturated fat. Them Omega 6's are bad ****. Anyway, i'm going way off topic, I just wanted you know that I am NOT part of the brigade of people blind to cholesterol scam that is making fortunes for pharmeceutical companies manufacturing unecessary statin drugs.


ok ..I got that now ....on another (lighter) note I don't know what was more amusingly confusing - your two different avvy with different posts but seemingly same username ..or your justification for your argument in that post ...anyway I respect your view as a non-believer


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## ragahav (Jun 11, 2008)

Raoul Duke said:


> Of course I do - Jai shri ram. Yeah i'm hindu. although I really admire buddhist philosophy too.


Where are you from buddy


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## Was_Eric (Jul 3, 2008)

Joshua said:


> I do not know if there is agreement. If you agree with what I wrote then you can assume there is agreement if you wish.
> 
> It has some answers to some of the questions asked. Not all the answers are right.
> 
> ...


we arent really talking about medical science or hairstyles we are talking about God creating the earth verses how our current science suggests it is created

it was suggested that God creating the earth is a nonsense idea and, as we seem to agree, our science will one day turn out to be nonsense


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