# Bulking



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Would appreciate any advice, as much as I know it will be critical. Just trying to put weight /muscle on since having jaw surgery.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

personally i would cut with a small deficit or at the most eat at maintainence and train hard.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Ok man thanks. Just wasn't sure if I'd built enough foundation to warrant a cut at this stage. I know I'm gaining fat in the stubborn areas but my lifts are going up and I'm filling clothes better so I'm hoping I've made some gains.


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

ajloney said:


> Would appreciate any advice, as much as I know it will be critical. Just trying to put weight /muscle on since having jaw surgery.
> 
> View attachment 155995
> 
> ...


 How much have you gained since you started bulking an what tine frame?

You look like you are gaining too fast to me and will end up back to square one when you cut, basically skinny fat.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey man. I've gained around 11 lbs since December ....yea I don't want to cut just yet when I haven't built a decent foundation


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

ajloney said:


> Hey man. I've gained around 11 lbs since December ....yea I don't want to cut just yet when I haven't built a decent foundation


 what is your routine, are your measurements and weight on the bar going up?


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

I do four days currently

Monday chest and triceps

Tuesday back and biceps

Thursday shoulders

Friday legs

The main three lifts are progressing with weight and reps.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Cardio basically walking most days


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

Not sure what you are doing worng then maybe this members will help @Sparkey @dtlv @Ultrasonic


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Lol I didn't realise I was doing wrong


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

ajloney said:


> Lol I didn't realise I was doing wrong


 What did you look like before you started to bulk, how much has your wasit increased?

You look like you are gaining too much fat t me but that is just my opinion will know better @superdrol


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Skinny and malnourished


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Thanks. I take quite a keen interest in nutrition actually. I get majority of my calories from cuts of meat and white rice. I would consume some fruit and vedg every other day and am hitting around 3000 calories a day. Making sure I hit my protein macros and ensure I don't go overboard on fat. Eggs, oats and the occasional shake. Just saying


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

PanamaPower said:


> I recommend taking a closer look at your diet. You will get out of your body what you put into it. If you are bulking on ice cream and Oreos, you will gain fat at a much higher rate than you will muscle. There is an abundance of dietary info on this forum. You can also consider paying a dietitian for a month or something, learn what they teach you, and continue that process by yourself. It's really not hard to prepare meals. Just like anything else we do as humans, you create a routine and it just becomes part of your daily/weekly tasks. I hate saying "good luck with your goals!" because it has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with hard work and determination. Now get out there and kick your own arse!


 I think my issue is the intensity of my training. I have twin boys and am working out 1 hour 1/4 first thing in the morning around 430. If I'm honest I just don't get a huge pump... I'm stuck between reps and weight. I really want to get this right and I have been gaining strength and my missus says I look better because I fill a t shirt but beneath it I am still uncomfortable..


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

ajloney said:


> I think my issue is the intensity of my training. I have twin boys and am working out 1 hour 1/4 first thing in the morning around 430. If I'm honest I just don't get a huge pump... I'm stuck between reps and weight. I really want to get this right and I have been gaining strength and my missus says I look better because I fill a t shirt but beneath it I am still uncomfortable..


 Your surplus is too big, you are gaining muscle and fat at the same rate, hit 2800 and see what you do then, but I'd be tempted to cut back to where you started with some extra muscle and start again being honest with a smaller surplus as per first sentence 

you were pretty lean for average joe, youve just gone a fraction too hard and added a touch too much fat, everyone's done it, probably more than once, don't stress and do a 8 week cut at 2000 calories to start, sort yourself and now you know better where calories need to be when you lean bulk again :beer:


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Your surplus is too big, you are gaining muscle and fat at the same rate, hit 2800 and see what you do then, but I'd be tempted to cut back to where you started with some extra muscle and start again being honest with a smaller surplus as per first sentence
> 
> you were pretty lean for average joe, youve just gone a fraction too hard and added a touch too much fat, everyone's done it, probably more than once, don't stress and do a 8 week cut at 2000 calories to start, sort yourself and now you know better where calories need to be when you lean bulk again :beer:


 Excellent man. Thanks for the advice. Will reducing the calories to 2800 and hitting the weights a bit harder help? I'm getting married in November and want to fit a suit decent. I was too skinny when I started ... Thanks again


----------



## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

ajloney said:


> Will reducing the calories to 2800 and* hitting the weights a bit harder *help?


 that's your issue. you shouldn't need to ask this question, 11lbs since December isn't exactly fast weight gain. Sounds like you need to learn to train with intensity.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Robbie said:


> that's your issue. you shouldn't need to ask this question, 11lbs since December isn't exactly fast weight gain. Sounds like you need to learn to train with intensity.


 Ok thanks


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Post up your routine and weights you started with and where you are now

so for example

bench press 3x10 35kg to 55kg


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

I will do this when home mate. Thanks


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Robbie said:


> that's your issue. you shouldn't need to ask this question, 11lbs since December isn't exactly fast weight gain. Sounds like you need to learn to train with intensity.


 I understand this was a stupid question. I've been learning as I go and I shouldn't have said that. I was too fixated on the surplus and training to build but understand maybe working extra hard and reducing my calories would have been counter productive but if my surplus was too high then I understand this.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Reading through the thread it sounds like you suffer from the 'busy life' phenomenon that at times makes it difficult for all of us. One of my best friends also has twin boys, aged two now I think. Workout time is not exactly easy to fit in, or to focus on fully.

I'd do two things in your situation - first, to deal with your over-bulk, I'd drop calories so that you are in a very mild calorie deficit of just 200-300kcals or so. That won't be too painful in regards to tiredness or hunger, and will allow you to still train hard whilst bringing back some leanness. The second thing would be to improve the quality of your training.

What's your current routine?


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

dtlv said:


> Reading through the thread it sounds like you suffer from the 'busy life' phenomenon that at times makes it difficult for all of us. One of my best friends also has twin boys, aged two now I think. Workout time is not exactly easy to fit in, or to focus on fully.
> 
> I'd do two things in your situation - first, to deal with your over-bulk, I'd drop calories so that you are in a very mild calorie deficit of just 200-300kcals or so. That won't be too painful in regards to tiredness or hunger, and will allow you to still train hard whilst bringing back some leanness. The second thing would be to improve the quality of your training.
> 
> What's your current routine?


 Awk I'm by no means making excuses I just hated wasting time with the boys in the evening working out so I decided to get out of bed earlier and do an hour 4 times a week before heading to work. So basically get up 430 and work out until 530/45. At the minute I'm doing Steve cooks big man on campus in my garage. I don't have machines so I'm alternating the machine exercises with weights as best I can. So usual split Monday is chest and triceps Tuesday back and biceps, Thursday shoulders and Friday legs. I personally don't think I've been pushing as hard as I can as I'm getting through he routine without much stress. I know I need to begin progressively overloading and I think that's where I've failed. I feel bigger but still conscious in the areas I was to begin with, belly and chest. I have avoided a deficit because I think I'll just shrink back to skinny fat again... thanks for the advice man


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

ajloney said:


> Awk I'm by no means making excuses I just hated wasting time with the boys in the evening working out so I decided to get out of bed earlier and do an hour 4 times a week before heading to work. So basically get up 430 and work out until 530/45. At the minute I'm doing Steve cooks big man on campus in my garage. I don't have machines so I'm alternating the machine exercises with weights as best I can. So usual split Monday is chest and triceps Tuesday back and biceps, Thursday shoulders and Friday legs. I personally don't think I've been pushing as hard as I can as I'm getting through he routine without much stress. I know I need to begin progressively overloading and I think that's where I've failed. I feel bigger but still conscious in the areas I was to begin with, belly and chest. I have avoided a deficit because I think I'll just shrink back to skinny fat again... thanks for the advice man


 I get where you are coming from, is not always easy to do things the way we'd like to, and given priorities family should always come first.

That said, even with your limitations (hours you can train and training at home), it's still possible to make it work. One of your limitations (not going to a gym but training in your garage) can also actually be a strength - the fact you have some kit to train at home means you can in theory train to any frequency.

My suggestion would be to change your routine to either a simple three day per week full body routine, or to an upper/lower training each twice per week. I'd stick mostly with compound exercises and just a few single joint exercises, and keep to a modest number of sets. Later on today when I come back on the forum I can give you a sample routine as a suggestion if you like that you can adjust according to what equipment you have available. Others will also be happy to help with suggestions too I'm sure.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

dtlv said:


> I get where you are coming from, is not always easy to do things the way we'd like to, and given priorities family should always come first.
> 
> That said, even with your limitations (hours you can train and training at home), it's still possible to make it work. One of your limitations (not going to a gym but training in your garage) can also actually be a strength - the fact you have some kit to train at home means you can in theory train to any frequency.
> 
> My suggestion would be to change your routine to either a simple three day per week full body routine, or to an upper/lower training each twice per week. I'd stick mostly with compound exercises and just a few single joint exercises, and keep to a modest number of sets. Later on today when I come back on the forum I can give you a sample routine as a suggestion if you like that you can adjust according to what equipment you have available. Others will also be happy to help with suggestions too I'm sure.


 Of course man I would welcome any suggestions. Appreciate it


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I'll leave dtlv to suggest a routine but it would help if you could tell us what equipment you have in your garage, so we know what exercises are possible.

I train at home in my garage too BTW. The convenience of being to train when I want far outweighs the different range of equipment I'd have in a gym for me.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Would appreciate any advice, as much as I know it will be critical. Just trying to put weight /muscle on since having jaw surgery.
> 
> View attachment 155995
> 
> ...


 Cardio.

Start a lifting program of your choice and adjust from there.

Could lower calories but the training and cardio will be the deficit.

Bulking is a term I hate.

It's just an excuse to get fat.

Little changes. Little improvements.

You need to tell us what you are doing now. How you are training. What you are eating etc.

Info helps.

You've provided exactly jack and ?


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Ok man thanks. Just wasn't sure if I'd built enough foundation to warrant a cut at this stage. I know I'm gaining fat in the stubborn areas but my lifts are going up and I'm filling clothes better so I'm hoping I've made some gains.


 To be honest mate, you're carrying a lot of fat.

Not a little in the stubborn areas.

That just means you're eating far too much.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

simonboyle said:


> Cardio.
> 
> Start a lifting program of your choice and adjust from there.
> 
> Could lower calories but the training and cardio will be the deficit.


 Cardio takes time though whereas eating less doesn't, so for the OP I'd favour the latter personally.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Cardio takes time though whereas eating less doesn't, so for the OP I'd favour the latter personally.


 I'd make the time to be honest. The difference it makes for training, growth, mental well being and overall health is more than worth it.

And with twin boys you should consider it to make sure you're there to see them grow old.

But yeah, I agree a deficit can be achieved both ways, but one is far superior and has so many more benefits that it isn't even a consideration to compare the two.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Cardio.
> 
> Start a lifting program of your choice and adjust from there.
> 
> ...


 Ok man apologies. I am currently doing the Steve cook program so it's basically 4 says chest triceps, back and bi, shoulders and legs. Calories are mainly in form of white rice, eggs, lean meats, mango, pineapple, some broccoli occasionally, mushrooms, bell peppers, butter milk. Hitting around 3000 calories but honestly I think it's my training.... just not up to the intensity I should be. I have a barbell and dumbbells. I have a bench that inclines and declines and can hold the bar. I also use the rafters of garage for pull ups chin ups etc .... hope this helps



simonboyle said:


> To be honest mate, you're carrying a lot of fat.
> 
> Not a little in the stubborn areas.
> 
> That just means you're eating far too much.


 Cheers lad. Sometimes regret coming on here, often leaves you feeling worse than you thought. But I respect the honesty, obviously worse off than I imagined. I'll take it on he chin


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Ok man apologies. I am currently doing the Steve cook program so it's basically 4 says chest triceps, back and bi, shoulders and legs. Calories are mainly in form of white rice, eggs, lean meats, mango, pineapple, some broccoli occasionally, mushrooms, bell peppers, butter milk. Hitting around 3000 calories but honestly I think it's my training.... just not up to the intensity I should be. I have a barbell and dumbbells. I have a bench that inclines and declines and can hold the bar. I also use the rafters of garage for pull ups chin ups etc .... hope this helps
> 
> Cheers lad. Sometimes regret coming on here, often leaves you feeling worse than you thought. But I respect the honesty, obviously worse off than I imagined. I'll take it on he chin


 Not worse buddy.

Just takes an outside eye to critique.

And we are all in the same boat. It's a bitchy little thing this thing we do. Picking faults etc.

And that isn't really telling us what you're eating and doing.

You've been asked for weights, progression, measurements etc several times so,far.

Need to know these.

And "about 3000 calories" means you're guessing.

Always hear that from people I help. They just pick a number.

Weigh your food.

Know it exactly.

And I find it hard to believe that if you are training and at least somewhat active that 3000 Cal's would put that much fat on you. As well as the increase in size.

What height are you?

If guess your calories are much higher.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

simonboyle said:


> I'd make the time to be honest. The difference it makes for training, growth, mental well being and overall health is more than worth it.
> 
> And with twin boys you should consider it to make sure you're there to see them grow old.
> 
> But yeah, I agree a deficit can be achieved both ways, but one is far superior and has so many more benefits that it isn't even a consideration to compare the two.


 In this situation I'd actually be concerned about possible negative effects on the priority of muscle gain by doing cardio. It sounds like recovery/growth may already be an issue due to limited sleep so I'd be cautious about adding cardio into the mix.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

As an example.

I'm 38

6 foot 2 inches.

94kgs

I train PPL with a couple of random sessions thrown in each week.

Conditioning or strength or cardio etc.

I consume (at the moment as immjust working on overall fitness and a bit of recomp) 3000 cals a day plus the occasional extra on top if I go out or feel like something.

Also recovering from injuries.

I have clearly visible abs and am gaining slowly. Have maybe out on 1kg of fat total as cardio hasn't been intense.

Push is

Hammer strength rows super settled with overhead raise 4 sets of 15

Hammer strength pulls superset with barbell rows

Same sets and reps

Shrugs and BBcurls

Same sets reps

Wide cable rows superset with hammer curls

CG cable lats superset with cable curls

Cable shrugs with cable curls (single arm innancabke station) as a finisher for fun and a pump

Then face pulls and rotator cuff work to finish.

Cardio.

Weights are unimportant as they change if I want to go heavy or chase a pump, as said my goals are fitness and recomp just now so weight progression isn't my goal.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> In this situation I'd actually be concerned about possible negative effects on the priority of muscle gain by doing cardio. It sounds like recovery/growth may already be an issue due to limited sleep so I'd be cautious about adding cardio into the mix.


 I don't believe that to be an issue for 99% of the people who train. Just an excuse to be honest imho.

If he is gaining fat, then he has the calories to burn.

I've never had an issue gaining and leaning out.

Cardio also helps with muscle gain.

Improves recovery, blood flow and new blood vessel growth to feed and help develop new muscle tissue.

And it would only even be a consideration if it was super intense and long duration.

A 30 mins cycle or jog 3-4 times a week? Nope


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> As an example.
> 
> I'm 38
> 
> ...


 Monday

barbell incline 4 sets 10/12 reps start with 20kg plate each side. Bar is around 6kg. Then progress 2kg each side until final set. Drop reps if necessary to 8 on last set

dumbell flies 4 sets 10/12 reps. Start with 10kg and add 2 kg each side until finals set.

dumbell press 4 sets 10/12 reps start with 20kg and add 2 kg each side each set.

press ups try to do 4 sets 10/12

skull crushers superset with close grip bench press. Start around 14kg and add 2 kg each side each set

tricep kickbacks start 6kg and add according to how my form is holding out

dumbell overhead extension. Start 12kg and add 2 kg each side each set

Tuesday

wide grip pull ups 4 sets 8

bent over rows start 44kg and add 2 kg each side for 4 sets

dumbell single arm rows start 22kg and add 2 kg each side 4 sets

Deadlifts start around 70kg and work up to 100 for reps 8/10

Barbell curls start 22kg and work up to 45 by set 4

Incline curls start 10kg add 2 kg each side for 4 sets

Spider curls over bench start 20kg work up to 36kg for 4 sets

Thursday

Straight leg deadlifts start around 50 work up to 80kg on fourth set

Back squats start 60kg work up to 90 over 4 sets 10

Goblet squats 30kg dumbbell up to 45kg 4 sets 12

Calf raises with barbell 4 sets start 60kg work up to 90kf over 4 sets 10

Friday

Dumbbell shoulder press 3 sets 10/12 start 12 kg work up to 22 over 4 sets

Lateral raises start 8kg up to 12 kg over 4 sets 10

Superset front barbell raise into upright row. Start 10kg up to 22 over 4 sets

Barbell shrugs 4 sets 12/15 start 60 work up to 90

Meals generally

Oats with chia seeds peanut butter, blueberries and a protein shake

Normally around 912 calories weighed and tracked

Steak and white rice weighed around 814 calories

Greek yogurt and mango 290 calories

Chicken breast and boiled potatoes with salsa and mushrooms around 500 calories

If theres calories left I'd usually have a banana with brown toast or milk to get me as close to 3000

Hope this helps

I'm 6'1 32 years


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Monday
> 
> barbell incline 4 sets 10/12 reps start with 20kg plate each side. Bar is around 6kg. Then progress 2kg each side until final set. Drop reps if necessary to 8 on last set
> 
> ...


 Christ man if that's accurate then you must really be under training as I would walk most of that off in an average day.

No idea how you have gained that amount of fat on that amount of calories.

You sure?

I'd recommend weigh everything and double check. You drink a lot of tea and coffee? Milk and sugar?

Drink juice a lot?

Snack? Chocolate?


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

simonboyle said:


> Christ man if that's accurate then you must really be under training as I would walk most of that off in an average day.
> 
> No idea how you have gained that amount of fat on that amount of calories.
> 
> ...


 That doesn't follow though, if I eat 4K calories I recomp, I lose weight on 3k, I'm 6ft, 95kg and cant put weight on unless I push to 4250, not particularly energetic, always feel warm so metabolism must be reasonable though but it doesn't follow that what's good for one is good for another even if identical shapes, he's also carrying a lot less muscle than you I'd think bud

id also be willing to question accuracy's of his weights or form if he can do lateral raises with 12kg with perfect form for 12 reps after pyramiding from 8kg... especially after doing shoulder presses with 22kg for reps also...

something is off somewhere...


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

superdrol said:


> That doesn't follow though, if I eat 4K calories I recomp, I lose weight on 3k, I'm 6ft, 95kg and cant put weight on unless I push to 4250, not particularly energetic, always feel warm so metabolism must be reasonable though but it doesn't follow that what's good for one is good for another even if identical shapes, he's also carrying a lot less muscle than you I'd think bud
> 
> id also be willing to question accuracy's of his weights or form if he can do lateral raises with 12kg with perfect form for 12 reps after pyramiding from 8kg... especially after doing shoulder presses with 22kg for reps also...
> 
> something is off somewhere...


 I know I'm carrying fat and I'm not a muscular build, I'm trying. Form falters then I drop reps .... It was a rough guide I put together I understand that's vague but I'm just trying to give an idea. I know my sessions are half assed and I feel I need to push it alot harder from now on


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Christ man if that's accurate then you must really be under training as I would walk most of that off in an average day.
> 
> No idea how you have gained that amount of fat on that amount of calories.
> 
> ...


 I only walk for cardio too. I drink black coffee no sugar. It lays in my workouts. I know it. My weights may be off apologies but my intensity is clearly lacking as I start work at 630 I push through the workout from 430 to 530 as quick as I can


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

ajloney said:


> I know I'm carrying fat and I'm not a muscular build, I'm trying. Form falters then I drop reps .... It was a rough guide I put together I understand that's vague but I'm just trying to give an idea. I know my sessions are half assed and I feel I need to push it alot harder from now on


 It could be that or it could be less than perfect form that's not being effective at working the muscle, heavy isn't everything, I feel good after reload week and just moving weight slowly with exquisite form! I have just dropped all my weights to get form bang on and it seems to be working far better!


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

ajloney said:


> I only walk for cardio too. I drink black coffee no sugar. It lays in my workouts. I know it. My weights may be off apologies but my intensity is clearly lacking as I start work at 630 I push through the workout from 430 to 530 as quick as I can


 Then do less with better form! It will be beneficial if you can recover better and train more intelligently vs with mega speed


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Would you suggest higher reps with perfect form or stick.... I know by look of my body that I'm just way off what I'd hoped to achieve


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Also if weights are a guess how do you know you progress? Start recording stuff, use an app

make sure each session you get an extra rep, a little more weight in one set, less rest, all are progress indicators!

for example I can row the stack (91kg) on a low row for 19 reps, yesterday I rowed 70kg but slower and more deliberate, focusing on the squeeze and contraction, I still managed 15/12/12, but my upper back has been used properly for the first time, I can feel it all day, I've used it for the first time I suspect! So I moved less weight, but used more muscles doing it!


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

ajloney said:


> Would you suggest higher reps with perfect form or stick.... I know by look of my body that I'm just way off what I'd hoped to achieve


 No I suggest doing as many reps as you can with a given weight until form breaks down, there is no one size fits all solution, don't push weight in favour of form!!

see what dltv comes up with, he's a personal trainer and sometimes when someone like him offers to help I can't help but think he should be left to it like ultrasonic said above...


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

simonboyle said:


> I don't believe that to be an issue for 99% of the people who train.


 My comments were specific to the OP, not more generally.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Did my workout this morning hitting upper body. Pushed myself harder and went until maybe had one repmleft in me and then upped the weight. I appreciate all your help lads. I'm as big of critique of myself as you guys have been and I know I'm a way off being in good shape. I will crack it tho. Thanks for all the advice I will take it all on board


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> barbell incline 4 sets 10/12 reps start with 20kg plate each side. Bar is around 6kg. Then progress 2kg each side until final set...


 I would change this approach, for all of your exercises. Yes you need to warm up, and when going to heavier weights need some low rep sets to get used to the weight, but for your work sets I would be doing 4 sets at the same weight, and then on successive workouts be looking to either do more reps at this weight, or to increase the weight.

As an example, for your incline press maybe do 12 reps at 26 kg (bar plus 10 kg per side), one or two reps at 44 kg (or a similar weight, depending what your plates allow), then 4 sets of 10-12 @ 54 kg (bar plus 24 kg per side) as a starting point. For subsequent chest exercises you won't need to warm-up, and you can probably just straight to your working set weights. You could do a small number of reps at an intermediate weight if you find it helps though. You need to experiment to see what reps and weight increases work for you but the idea is to focus your efforts on the sets that are going to stimulate growth, whereas currently I think you're wasting a lot of effort on sets that probably aren't very productive.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I would change this approach, for all of your exercises. Yes you need to warm up, and when going to heavier weights need some low rep sets to get used to the weight, but for your work sets I would be doing 4 sets at the same weight, and then on successive workouts be looking to either do more reps at this weight, or to increase the weight.
> 
> As an example, for your incline press maybe do 12 reps at 26 kg (bar plus 10 kg per side), one or two reps at 44 kg (or a similar weight, depending what your plates allow), then 4 sets of 10-12 @ 54 kg (bar plus 24 kg per side) as a starting point. For subsequent chest exercises you won't need to warm-up, and you can probably just straight to your working set weights. You could do a small number of reps at an intermediate weight if you find it helps though. You need to experiment to see what reps and weight increases work for you but the idea is to focus your efforts on the sets that are going to stimulate growth, whereas currently I think you're wasting a lot of effort on sets that probably aren't very productive.


 Brilliant. I totally agree. I would get through my sets pretty easy and it's only if I have a morning off that I would push to point of struggling form on last rep. I will take this advice. Thank you


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

One other thought. Are 2 kg plates the smallest that you have? If so I'd buy yourself some 1 kg and 0.5 kg plates as these well as these will low you to make smaller weight increases.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Yea I have 1 kg plates as well. I will invest in some more when I get paid.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Brilliant. I totally agree. I would get through my sets pretty easy and it's only if I have a morning off that I would push to point of struggling form on last rep. I will take this advice. Thank you


 I'm slightly concerned you are still concerned about properly pushing yourself, in that at least the final set of an exercise needs to be a struggle to complete, if indeed you don't fail to complete the rep. But without excessive use of momentum.

Let's say you're trying to do 4 sets of an exercise with a goal of achieving 4x12 before increasing the weight. The first workout you might achieve something like 10 reps, 9 reps, 9 reps and 7 reps on successive sets, with each pushed to the point of being a struggle to complete the last rep but trying not to push it so far that you fail to complete a rep. You'll get better at judging this with experience. Over subsequent workouts you need to aim to do more total reps, but don't take any set beyond your target 12 reps. So you might have a workout where you do say 12 reps, 12 reps, 11 reps and 10 reps. The next time you'll probably be able to do 4 x 12, and then the next workout you increase the weight and start the process again.

There are lots of other ways to structure progression but I think this would be sensible for you.

You do need to consider safety though. Do you have some sort of safety bars to catch the bar if you can't complete a rep when bench pressing or squating? If not you need to get something so that you do.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm slightly concerned you are still concerned about properly pushing yourself, in that at least the final set of an exercise needs to be a struggle to complete, if indeed you don't fail to complete the rep. But without excessive use of momentum.
> 
> Let's say you trying to do 4 sets of an exercise with a goal of achieving 4x12 before increasing the weight. The first workout you might achieve something like 10 reps, 9 reps, 9 reps and 7 reps on successive sets, with each pushed to the point of being a struggle to complete the last rep but trying not to push it so far that you fail to complete a rep. You'll get better at judging this with experience. Over subsequent workouts you need to aim to do more total reps, but don't take any set beyond your target 12 reps. So you might have a workout where you do say 12 reps, 12 reps, 11 reps and 10 reps. The next time you'll probably be able to do 4 x 12, and then the next workout you increase the weight and start the process again.
> 
> ...


 Don't be concerned. Ok it's obviously a case of not progressing and guessing weights and first couple of sets being too easy. I need to keep better check of my starting and warm up weights. I can see where I'm going wrong. Thanks for pointing things out


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Don't be concerned. Ok it's obviously a case of not progressing and guessing weights and first couple of sets being too easy. I need to keep better check of my starting and warm up weights. I can see where I'm going wrong. Thanks for pointing things out


 Don't take my comments as criticism BTW. I was guilty of not pushing myself anything like hard enough when I first started training.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Of course not. I've seen the knowledge and advice you have given. If I was pushing as hard as I should i would be in a better position than I am.... It's all learning and obviously not something I can wing. Thank you for your help


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm slightly concerned you are still concerned about properly pushing yourself, in that at least the final set of an exercise needs to be a struggle to complete, if indeed you don't fail to complete the rep. But without excessive use of momentum.
> 
> L*et's say you're trying to do 4 sets of an exercise with a goal of achieving 4x12 before increasing the weight. The first workout you might achieve something like 10 reps, 9 reps, 9 reps and 7 reps on successive sets, with each pushed to the point of being a struggle to complete the last rep but trying not to push it so far that you fail to complete a rep. You'll get better at judging this with experience. Over subsequent workouts you need to aim to do more total reps, but don't take any set beyond your target 12 reps. So you might have a workout where you do say 12 reps, 12 reps, 11 reps and 10 reps. The next time you'll probably be able to do 4 x 12, and then the next workout you increase the weight and start the process again.*
> 
> ...


 How would you do this if your sets are 8-12?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

B3NCH1 said:


> How would you do this if your sets are 8-12?


 Exactly as I wrote. The weight increment will determine what the lower rep limit will end up being. As in if someone achieves 4x12 and makes a small weight increment they might be able to do sets of about 10, but with a bigger increment it could be 8.

Don't get hung up on specific rep ranges: what matters is progression over time.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Yea I need to monitor my volume and progressive overload more.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Yea I need to monitor my volume and progressive overload more.


 I'd make a note of the weight and reps done for every set.

This may be obvious but note that increasing reps at the same weight is progressive overload, not just increasing weight.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Ok.and once I manage 4 sets of 12 with perfect form then it's time to increase weight. Am I right


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Ok.and once I manage 4 sets of 12 with perfect form then it's time to increase weight. Am I right


 Yes.

I would be changing your routine too BTW but hopefully dtlv will be back with a suggestion. He's a much more experienced coach than I am.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

superdrol said:


> That doesn't follow though, if I eat 4K calories I recomp, I lose weight on 3k, I'm 6ft, 95kg and cant put weight on unless I push to 4250, not particularly energetic, always feel warm so metabolism must be reasonable though but it doesn't follow that what's good for one is good for another even if identical shapes, he's also carrying a lot less muscle than you I'd think bud
> 
> id also be willing to question accuracy's of his weights or form if he can do lateral raises with 12kg with perfect form for 12 reps after pyramiding from 8kg... especially after doing shoulder presses with 22kg for reps also...
> 
> something is off somewhere...


 Yeah, I agree, that's why I'm asking for the extra info.

Doesn't follow that he'll be the same. But someone his size eating only 3k and also working out, it would be unlikely as most people, or the majority, wouldn't gain like he has on that.

For someone his age and size I'd say it's only just around his maintenance. But that's a guess, an educated one but still a guess. As you said, something is just off.

3k from "clean" calories on a reasonable workout program plus raising 2 kids would put you at at least 3k to maintain IMHO


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> My comments were specific to the OP, not more generally.


 Fair play buddy, I'd apply it more to the OP due to the level of fat he has gained.

Difference of opinion.

But for me, saying to someone who has gained a lot of BF that cardio will hurt his gains is silly.

Like very silly.

It certainly will hurt his fat gains.

But then I'm a cardio proponent and as stated don't buy in to the "cardio kills gains" nonsense.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> I would change this approach, for all of your exercises. Yes you need to warm up, and when going to heavier weights need some low rep sets to get used to the weight, but for your work sets I would be doing 4 sets at the same weight, and then on successive workouts be looking to either do more reps at this weight, or to increase the weight.
> 
> As an example, for your incline press maybe do 12 reps at 26 kg (bar plus 10 kg per side), one or two reps at 44 kg (or a similar weight, depending what your plates allow), then 4 sets of 10-12 @ 54 kg (bar plus 24 kg per side) as a starting point. For subsequent chest exercises you won't need to warm-up, and you can probably just straight to your working set weights. You could do a small number of reps at an intermediate weight if you find it helps though. You need to experiment to see what reps and weight increases work for you but the idea is to focus your efforts on the sets that are going to stimulate growth, whereas currently I think you're wasting a lot of effort on sets that probably aren't very productive.


 This.

This is how I train most frequently.

Straight working sets.

It's also simpler for a home workout I'd imagine.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm slightly concerned you are still concerned about properly pushing yourself, in that at least the final set of an exercise needs to be a struggle to complete, if indeed you don't fail to complete the rep. But without excessive use of momentum.
> 
> Let's say you're trying to do 4 sets of an exercise with a goal of achieving 4x12 before increasing the weight. The first workout you might achieve something like 10 reps, 9 reps, 9 reps and 7 reps on successive sets, with each pushed to the point of being a struggle to complete the last rep but trying not to push it so far that you fail to complete a rep. You'll get better at judging this with experience. Over subsequent workouts you need to aim to do more total reps, but don't take any set beyond your target 12 reps. So you might have a workout where you do say 12 reps, 12 reps, 11 reps and 10 reps. The next time you'll probably be able to do 4 x 12, and then the next workout you increase the weight and start the process again.
> 
> ...


 Solid advice here OP.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Fair play buddy, I'd apply it more to the OP due to the level of fat he has gained.
> 
> Difference of opinion.
> 
> ...


 I'm still here. Stop talking about the fat guy. Look it boils down to simple, I wing workouts. I know what needs done and I have completed what feels comfortable. I have not been progressively overloading and I have not monitored volume and have been little to no cardio other than 10,000 steps. Obviously I've been in a surplus and not pushed hard enough to reduce the fat gain. I will change things up and switch to a upper/lower split. I will monitor my progression and keep my calories weighed and accounted for.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> I'm still here. Stop talking about the fat guy. Look it boils down to simple, I wing workouts. I know what needs done and I have completed what feels comfortable. I have not been progressively overloading and I have not monitored volume and have been little to no cardio other than 10,000 steps. Obviously I've been in a surplus and not pushed hard enough to reduce the fat gain. I will change things up and switch to a upper/lower split. I will monitor my progression and keep my calories weighed and accounted for.


 I didn't call you a fat guy buddy, it sjust the term to use, fat gains.

You've gained fat.

It wasn't meant to be an insult.

We are not PC in this "sport" and will more often than not be blunt. But blunt and honest.

If I insulted you I apologise.

But I will stand by the cardio comments.

Don't buy in to the nonsense. Cardio is good for you.

It'll improve your physique. It'll improve your energy levels. It'll improve your mental health.

It'll improve your overall health and longevity and quality of life.

And it'll lean you out and you'll see.more of the shape you've built.

Trust me. Everyone who actually starts doing regular cardio gets so much benefit from it.

You're on the path just now that so many get on where they always chase bigger as they don't look like they want. At any given level of development being leaner will always make you look better.

You see the shape, the separation. The pumps look awesome. The veins start to appear and you'll see every pound of muscle.you gain.

That's my advice.

Ultrasonic has given you solid advice too, we both agree on most of what he has typed, just the cardio aspect of it that we are disagreeing on.

I'm not saying become a marathon runner buddy.

3 to 4 30 mins sessions a week.

How about try it for a few weeks and let us know what you feel like and if it helps you and you feel better.

Can be a skipping rope.in your living room.or anywhere. (That would actually be a great form.of cardio, one of my favourites as long as I don't c**t it face first as I usually do when I trio myself)


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Nah I didn't take it as an insult ... I knew putting my picture out on here it's to receive the critism and advice I need. Going from skinny to what I am now, holding more fat my missus is like your arms look bigger and your chest looks bigger in clothes but I know when I take top off or sit in a seat, I feel fat, I don't feel big. I will try doing some cardio sessions as well as taking a program more serious in terms of volume and pushing myself.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Just as an addition.

Only.barely touches on what it does for exercise capacity. But the other benefits it does, not can but does provide.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Nah I didn't take it as an insult ... I knew putting my picture out on here it's to receive the critism and advice I need. Going from skinny to what I am now, holding more fat my missus is like your arms look bigger and your chest looks bigger in clothes but I know when I take top off or sit in a seat, I feel fat, I don't feel big. I will try doing some cardio sessions as well as taking a program more serious in terms of volume and pushing myself.


 Good stuff buddy.

I'm sounding like a fanatiyhere, but cardio really does improve everything.

And if you think it'll hurt your gains? Look at athletes.

We'll not mention the possibility of PEDs, but many many sports have very muscular athletes who do 100s of KM per week of intense cardio. 100s. One that always comes to mind for me are boxers. They do sparring work, that's tough cardio, technique and road /endurance work. Can add up to about 3 hours of cardio a day.

And I'll counter that by adding in marathon runners.

If you look like a boxer, you're good.

Look like a marathon runner, you've f**ked it and went too far lol.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/can-cardio-ruin-your-gains.html

A decent and short article with relevant studies linked.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/can-cardio-ruin-your-gains.html
> 
> A decent and short article with relevant studies linked.


 I will definitely look into it mate. Are we talking runs or walks .... I would implement 10 minute walks after meals and hitting around 10,000 steps.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

simonboyle said:


> I'm a cardio proponent and as stated don't buy in to the "cardio kills gains" nonsense.


 It's a discussion for a different thread but for info. there is some study data that shows cardio can reduce muscle gain. The debate is over what type of cardio and how much.

For the OP though I think it's more a question of fatigue management. Everyone has a limit to recovery abilities that need to be balanced with training volume. The fact the OP already stated he needs to get up at 4:30 to train and his description of his busy schedule makes me think he's already going to have issues due to limited sleep.

My general view BTW is that everyone ought to be doing some cardio for general health but for fat loss I personally prefer calorie restriction. I very much appreciate different people have different preferences in this regard though  .


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

If you are finding it hard enough to push, instead of focusing on straight sets you can do the heaviest set as your first working set. Personally, i find it very hard to do the progression on straight sets. It was very slow for me.

You can give a try to this way as well, suppose you are currently doing 60kgs for 10 reps on Bench press

So your warm up sets will be

Warm up set 1 :- 20% for 10 reps of Max load to be performed on that day

Warm up set 2 : 40% for 5 reps

Warm up set 3 : 60% for 3 reps

Warm up set 4 :- 80% for 1.

Your first working set would be 60kgs for 10 reps.

Working set 2 :- 90% of 1st working set

Working set 3 :- 80% of 1st working set

and so on.

In the next bench session, i will add the minimum weight possible on bar and aim for 10. Unless i will be able to perform designated reps, i won't increase the load.

Rest working sets will be same, no matter whether you achieve targeted reps on not. You will be able to achieve the designated reps on other working sets because you have already done in your last session.

This way, the progress is quicker and progressive overload is easily manageable IMO.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Can I just ask guys. Will pushing the workouts and implementing overload be ok to crack on with or will I need to cut down before trying to gain some form of shape. Have I went too far adding weight that I'll need to cut down again


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Can I just ask guys. Will pushing the workouts and implementing overload be ok to crack on with or will I need to cut down before trying to gain some form of shape. Have I went too far adding weight that I'll need to cut down again


 I would reduce the calories you eat a bit (maybe 400 kcal) and push the training as discussed. Hopefully this will allow you to slowly lose some fat whilst still making reasonable training progress. You need to try something and then see how it goes.

If you decide you want to do some cardio then you wouldn't need to reduce calories as much but as you've probably gathered I'd personally stay clear of cardio for now.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Ok man thanks. I will reduce the calories and stick to my 10 minute walks each day. It's seems a stupid question but my current position will and look, will I not just start to get smaller. I feel arms and chest have gained a little but when I cut down before I just looked I'll and skinny.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Ok man thanks. I will reduce the calories and stick to my 10 minute walks each day. It's seems a stupid question but my current position will and look, will I not just start to get smaller. I feel arms and chest have gained a little but when I cut down before I just looked I'll and skinny.


 Purely losing fat will make you smaller. It sounds like you've gained some muscle since the last time you were lean though and hopefully you'll continue to gain more.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Sounds like OP needs a little fire behind him, some tenacity!


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

I assume op means myself. Yea my intensity has been out of whack since double jaw surgery but I've never moved forward from it. Lost alot of weight and went straight to a surplus and didn't lift with intensity. Trying to change that now before I get fatter


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> I assume op means myself. Yea my intensity has been out of whack since double jaw surgery but I've never moved forward from it. Lost alot of weight and went straight to a surplus and didn't lift with intensity. Trying to change that now before I get fatter


 OP means either Original Poster (the person who started the thread) or Original Post (first post of thread).


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

ajloney said:


> I assume op means myself. Yea my intensity has been out of whack since double jaw surgery but I've never moved forward from it. Lost alot of weight and went straight to a surplus and didn't lift with intensity. Trying to change that now before I get fatter


 Yeah op = original poster 

whereabouts are you from roughly?


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Yeah op = original poster
> 
> whereabouts are you from roughly?


 Ah. Cheers. Northern Ireland


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> I will definitely look into it mate. Are we talking runs or walks .... I would implement 10 minute walks after meals and hitting around 10,000 steps.


 Walking isn't cardio buddy.

As said, skipping or some such.

Something that gets your heart rate up and breathing heavily.

Hill walking.

Conditioning work.

Stuck YouTube on and do a cardio workout following that.

Can't remember many channels. Think fitness blender is one.

Plenty though that all do coached 5-10-15-20 minute workouts.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's a discussion for a different thread but for info. there is some study data that shows cardio can reduce muscle gain. The debate is over what type of cardio and how much.
> 
> For the OP though I think it's more a question of fatigue management. Everyone has a limit to recovery abilities that need to be balanced with training volume. The fact the OP already stated he needs to get up at 4:30 to train and his description of his busy schedule makes me think he's already going to have issues due to limited sleep.
> 
> My general view BTW is that everyone ought to be doing some cardio for general health but for fat loss I personally prefer calorie restriction. I very much appreciate different people have different preferences in this regard though  .


 Yup. Didn't want to go down the study route, but type and intensity are factors.

There are also studies showing it improves recovery and over all workout capacity. Plus improves energy levels. Reduces fatigue etc.

I think, personally, it would benefit the OP many fold.

And not only does it help with fat loss, but it helps prevent further fat gain, improves metabolic processes, improves nutrient use and allocation, improves your hormone profile in favour of being leaner, and offsets things like pre diabetes, and actual diabetes.

So it's simply a no brained for me.

Add in nutrient delivery, preferred hormone profile after training, clearing fatigue toxins from resistance training and increasing oxygen delivery to the trained muscles then yeah, I think it suits.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Can I just ask guys. Will pushing the workouts and implementing overload be ok to crack on with or will I need to cut down before trying to gain some form of shape. Have I went too far adding weight that I'll need to cut down again


 You need to lose fat, if that's what you are asking, regardless how much muscle you ever put on, that fat will still cover it.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

ajloney said:


> Ok man thanks. I will reduce the calories and stick to my 10 minute walks each day. It's seems a stupid question but my current position will and look, will I not just start to get smaller. I feel arms and chest have gained a little but when I cut down before I just looked I'll and skinny.


 No.

 Muscle loss isn't something that happens easily.

Too many people worry about silly shite.

It's like when people say "I don't want to get too muscular" when they've never touched a weight, like it's that easy.

If you are eating and training. With high protein, then muscle loss just isn't an issue.

You will get "smaller" as there will be less (fat) of you, but you will look more muscular and athletic.

Look at body builders, off season to on stage, it's an extreme comparison but they are "getting smaller" to get on stage, but look like fecking beasts.

Get where I'm going?


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Yea I understand. I will up my intensity and start to look for weight loss to see how I get on. I'm hoping I've gained something to reveal in the 6/7 months


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Can I gain strength/muscle while losing the fat at a smaller surplus and higher intensity??


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

What about keto to lose the fat. I follow mark bell and they speak very highly of the diet, given I don't have the same muscle to cut down to


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

ajloney said:


> What about keto to lose the fat. I follow mark bell and they speak very highly of the diet, given I don't have the same muscle to cut down to


 Train like a baastard never mind these over complex details!


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Oioi said:


> Train like a baastard never mind these over complex details!


 Lol well I intend to do that now. Anyone I know just trains like a bastard as you say and eats Their meals.... Sometimes its all too complex and gets confusing ...alot of knowledge on here though


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

ajloney said:


> Lol well I intend to do that now. Anyone I know just trains like a bastard as you say and eats Their meals.... Sometimes its all too complex and gets confusing ...alot of knowledge on here though


 It is simple though. You train hard and eat and rest. The fitness industry tries to make it complicated so they can sell you something.


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

ajloney said:


> Lol well I intend to do that now. Anyone I know just trains like a bastard as you say and eats Their meals.... Sometimes its all too complex and gets confusing ...alot of knowledge on here though


 Everyone has certaily spoken sense with their advice.

Get in "the zone" so to speak, lift hard, muster some agression to really get some PB's set "personal bests"


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> Can I gain strength/muscle while losing the fat at a smaller surplus and higher intensity??


 No, you need to be in a deficit to lose fat. My calorie suggestion above was to put you in a small deficit though (in combination with the improved training intensity).


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ajloney said:


> What about keto to lose the fat. I follow mark bell and they speak very highly of the diet, given I don't have the same muscle to cut down to


 Don't do keto. It will very likely hinder your training progress, is unecessarily restrictive and won't offer superior fat loss to a normal diet with the same daily calories.


----------



## Lancashiregent (Jul 29, 2015)

Interval training is great, or sprints. Sprints have been shown to create HUGE increases in Growth Hormone which is why sprinters are muscular, as opposed to marathon runners who are anything but.

One short and effective 20 minute cardio routine is on a treadmill. Set the incline to 12, and then 30 secs at around 4.5kph and then 45 seconds at 6.5 - 7 kph.

20 mins and done.

You might not have access to a treadmill, but another simple and effective routine that you might find useful is on this thread here.

I eventually worked up to all sets and reps ( almost) with 40 squats on the last set. This is a great conditioning routine whilst also using weights. There is no way on God's green earth you would be able to do all sets and reps without making significant changes to your body composition ( unless you consistently and significantly over ate)

Loads of great advice already in this thread but fat loss is key for a quality physique and will improve your insulin sensitivity/help the food you eat go where it should instead of turning into fat.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/306381-fadis-30kg-of-humility/?do=embed


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Lancashiregent said:


> Interval training is great, or sprints. Sprints have been shown to create HUGE increases in Growth Hormone which is why sprinters are muscular, as opposed to marathon runners who are anything but.
> 
> One short and effective 20 minute cardio routine is on a treadmill. Set the incline to 12, and then 30 secs at around 4.5kph and then 45 seconds at 6.5 - 7 kph.
> 
> ...


 Wow that looks intense. So this would almost be a cardiovascular exercise .... I will try this next week when I have worked out all my stats etc for my program ... Cheers man


----------



## Lancashiregent (Jul 29, 2015)

ajloney said:


> Wow that looks intense. So this would almost be a cardiovascular exercise .... I will try this next week when I have worked out all my stats etc for my program ... Cheers man


 Yes - it works your cardiovascular system - but try doing 50 squats and you will be feeling it in your muscles as well - believe me.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Lancashiregent said:


> Yes - it works your cardiovascular system - but try doing 50 squats and you will be feeling it in your muscles as well - believe me.


 Oh I believe you man. Sounds intense


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

I like keto but that's because mainly that's how I prefer to eat anyway.

In relation to training I'd say no.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow this thread got busy. I was intending to post some advice on here but @Ultrasonic, @simonboyle and others have given some great tips already and I don't want to add anything more to confuse things.

A few pages back Ultrasonic posted explaining how to approach straight sets, increasing reps for a few sessions until you reach a target that you can achieve for all sets (with the latter sets always more difficult and requiring determined focus and effort for multiple reps), then increasing the load for the next session, seeing your reps drop then building back up again - this is exactly how to go about progression. There are numerous different splits and exercise selections you can put together that work that you can choose to do, but stick to that specific principal of progression, and keep at it for a good while. The consistency over time progressing using this approach will drive your gains.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

dtlv said:


> Wow this thread got busy. I was intending to post some advice on here but @Ultrasonic, @simonboyle and others have given some great tips already and I don't want to add anything more to confuse things.
> 
> A few pages back Ultrasonic posted explaining how to approach straight sets, increasing reps for a few sessions until you reach a target that you can achieve for all sets (with the latter sets always more difficult and requiring determined focus and effort for multiple reps), then increasing the load for the next session, seeing your reps drop then building back up again - this is exactly how to go about progression. There are numerous different splits and exercise selections you can put together that work that you can choose to do, but stick to that specific principal of progression, and keep at it for a good while. The consistency over time progressing using this approach will drive your gains.


 Yea the help and advice has been overwhelming. I got compliments from my missus that arms and chest are nice because I was so damn skinny after jaw surgery but I knew in my heart of hearts that I was packing on more fat than muscle .... Appreciate all the advice and will definitely read up on it all and implement it. Thanks folks


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> One other thought. Are 2 kg plates the smallest that you have? If so I'd buy yourself some 1 kg and 0.5 kg plates as these well as these will low you to make smaller weight increases.


 what do you do when you stall at a weight on the bar, deload or take a weeks rest?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

B3NCH1 said:


> what do you do when you stall at a weight on the bar, deload or take a weeks rest?


 As a beginner you should be able to progress for a long time without stalling using the method I described. Smaller weight increments help too. (Appropriate nutrition and rest matter as well of course.)

Options to try would include increasing the weight for one workout and then dropping the weight back down. Or to reduce the weight for a workout, doing higher rep sets than your usual target, then increase the weight up in the next workout. Another option is to add some additional reps in an extra set.

When doing different exercises for the same body part in a workout look at progress overall, since if you achieve a PB in the first exercise you might then not do so well in the second.


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

Doing what @Ultrasonic suggested with the overload .... When this week is over I will have a list of numbers that I am working to. Thanks for advice. I am keeping tight on the calories at 2500 and keeping an eye on scales. What sort of loss should I be aiming for to make sure I am on the right road.? I have taken pics to monitor and hopefully there is some muscle beneath to reveal and I haven't completely wasted my time since surgery. Thanks guys I am not looking to be shredded. Just to look like lift and be healthy.


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

ajloney said:


> Doing what @Ultrasonic suggested with the overload .... When this week is over I will have a list of numbers that I am working to. Thanks for advice. I am keeping tight on the calories at 2500 and keeping an eye on scales. What sort of loss should I be aiming for to make sure I am on the right road.? I have taken pics to monitor and hopefully there is some muscle beneath to reveal and I haven't completely wasted my time since surgery. Thanks guys I am not looking to be shredded. Just to look like lift and be healthy.
> 
> View attachment 156387
> 
> ...


 Look at losing between 1-2lbs a week


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

On 8 week program. Have made it to week 7.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Noticable progress, @ajloney, good work. :thumbup1:


----------



## ajloney (Apr 4, 2017)

dtlv said:


> Noticable progress, @ajloney, good work. :thumbup1:


 Thanks man


----------

