# been on ckd keto diet for 8 weeks quick review please



## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

been on the ckd keto diet for 8 weeks now, just wanting some advice if the diet is ok, been losing weight every week so i must be doing something right :thumb:

started at 180lb and about 28% bf 8 weeks later i am

now 165lb and 21% bf 

is these good results or not?

my diet and cardio is

7am 2 eggs 10g butter

10am 50g nuts

12.30 100g chicken, 30g natty peanut butter

3pm 50g nuts

5pm 30g protein shake pwo on weight training days only

6pm 100g extra lean steak mince

9pm 2 eggs 10g butter

10g fish oil and 5g extra fibre each day

comes to

1632 calories

117g fat 65%

133g protein 33%

9g carbs 2%

slowly brought the calories down from 2000 cal to the above numbers

45 min fasted cardio with 15mg yohimbine and 200mg caffine 6 days a week

weight train 3 days a week and do 45min cardio after weight sessions and an eca 30+ tab (i dont think these are doing much i cant feel the caffine working)

i have worked up to all this cardio in the past 8 weeks, been doing all this cardio for 2 weeks now as i thought the results had slowed done a bit, and i have only been using the yohimbine and eca for 2 weeks also

any advice would be great and anything else you need to know fire away

thanks

andy :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

Anyone?


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## dudz (Oct 27, 2008)

Cals are really low + your doing 6 days cardio & weight training too, would've kept em at 2.5k+ and just kept going.

Have you been having regular refeeds?


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## AB1990 (Nov 3, 2009)

Kcals are too low i would of kept them just below 2500 and your protein is quite low also.


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## smaj210 (Aug 1, 2009)

as above but 7% bodyfat drop is good well done


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

dudz said:


> Cals are really low + your doing 6 days cardio & weight training too, would've kept em at 2.5k+ and just kept going.
> 
> Have you been having regular refeeds?


having refeeds from friday evening and all day saturday, some weeks i dont count carbs and others time i have it all worked out, i always eat at least 600g though and low fat, high protein 



AB1990 said:


> Kcals are too low i would of kept them just below 2500 and your protein is quite low also.


i think some people overestimate how much protein is required tbh. i am aware that i wont be building any extra muscle due to the low cal and protein, according to the lyle mcdonal book i have been reading to much protein can take you out of ketosis

2500 is just below maintenance though i think that is too high mate



smaj210 said:


> as above but 7% bodyfat drop is good well done


thanks mate 

i dont know if i should up my calories now or wait until the weight loss stops completely?


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Just wondering for breakfast and later on why you adding 10g of butter with 2 eggs?

As stated cals and protein to low, you have to add alot of protein when loosing fat or muscle will be sacrificed. a good amount of % bf you have lost in a very short time,i would be concerned as being under 12 stone at 21% bf aint a great point to be, if you were to reach around 13-15% bf what weight would you be at:confused1: ( better to loose bf slowly while weight decreases breifly - reason i say this seen this many times guys go all balls out at gym trying to loose fat fast and all they left with a small version of themselves before with more excess skin)

It takes time mate and the results will come just dont go by weight on the scales, use the mirror , trust me skinny fat person aint a good look.

Not trying to put a damper on things mate and it seems to be your working your a55 off, just need more healthy calories and protein. good luck:thumbup1:


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

geeby112 said:


> Just wondering for breakfast and later on why you adding 10g of butter with 2 eggs?
> 
> As stated cals and protein to low, you have to add alot of protein when loosing fat or muscle will be sacrificed. a good amount of % bf you have lost in a very short time,i would be concerned as being under 12 stone at 21% bf aint a great point to be, if you were to reach around 13-15% bf what weight would you be at:confused1: ( better to loose bf slowly while weight decreases breifly - reason i say this seen this many times guys go all balls out at gym trying to loose fat fast and all they left with a small version of themselves before with more excess skin)
> 
> ...


the butter is to add more fat and it helps me to eat the eggs, i dont think i could eat them without it.

what would you suggest the cals and protein be set at? i would say another 30g of protein

i assume the grams of fat are ok, maybe a slight increase in them perhaps?

your not putting a downer on it mate :laugh:

its good to hear advice.

should the amount of cardio be kept the same when i increase the calories?


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

I think i will up my cals to 2200 and take protein to 160g and continue to do the same amount of cardio

Doed this sound better?


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

I think i will up my cals to 2200 and take protein to 160g and continue to do the same amount of cardio

Doed this sound better?


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

Read any of the keto threads by B1GJOE, or google Lyle Mcdonald CKD.

If i remember right, which i usually don't, 12cal/lb of bodyweight is recommended for fat loss, of which:

1g protein/lb of LEAN MASS

30g max carbs so 120 cals

The rest of your total cals from fat


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

Taylor01 said:


> Read any of the keto threads by B1GJOE, or google Lyle Mcdonald CKD.
> 
> If i remember right, which i usually don't, 12cal/lb of bodyweight is recommended for fat loss, of which:
> 
> ...


Yeh i have the book by lyle looks like my cals are fine at 2200


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

changed my diet to the following numbers

2188 calories

163g fat 68%

162g protein 30%

13g carbs 2%

how do these numbers look? :confused1:

i was thinking about doing the same amount of cardio, would this be overkill? 

or should i drop the post weight cardio and do the 5 fasted cardio sessions?

opinions please

thanks :thumbup1:


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

Anyone??


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

bump


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Try some really dirty refeeds!

During the last 14 weeks of CKD I've done all sorts of refeeds. The worst weeks of my diet were post Chicken and sweet potato, planned refeeds. My absolute best weeks were post down right dirty refeeds. So I've concluded that refeeds is just a case of smashing whatever you like, get the job done then stop! Try and get a 1000 to 1500 grams of carbs in during the weekend refeed, and enjoy whatever you like. The only thing I try and do, is keep it low fat until the last meal, then I have a really dirty high fat high carb meal, like burger and chips with a bag of cookies for dessert!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

If you need advice about dirty carb ups, just ask Taylor01.

Give him an example of one of your refeeds Taylor! I couldn't slam in what you do!


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

tbh i have had more dirty refeeds than planned ones joe :lol:

how does the cals look at 2200 and the amount of cardio?

you seem to be the biggest keto dieter on here :laugh:

cheers


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

andy51086 said:


> tbh i have had more dirty refeeds than planned ones joe :lol:
> 
> how does the cals look at 2200 and the amount of cardio?
> 
> ...


Fortunately for you I've just done my macro's for the week. And to be honest for the last 4-5 weeks I've been going against my own advice, and going sub 2000 cals, and it has been working. I'm now 2 weeks out, so this week I'm going even lower.

My current weights (204lbs Friday Morning in depleted state)

..........................(210lbs Sunday Morning post Carb up)

Bodyfat at the moment is around 7-8%

Total calories 1703

Protein 196g (46.1% Cals)

Fat 95.6g (50.5% Cals)

Carbs 14.4g (3.4% Cals)

As you are much lighter than I am my advice would be go a lot lower on your total calories during Keto phase, and have much bigger refeeds. Seems to work for me, and has got me through a sh1tty plateau. Don't hold me accountable, I'm just telling how I have got through a sticking point. I managed to drop 10½lbs in 4 weeks, and dropped about 4-5% bodyfat, with no loss of strength, and no noticeable muscle loss. Also, on AM cardio I've been doing the following:

Wake up have 4g tyrosine, 4g BCAA, 1g Vitamin C, 20mg Yohimbine, 200mg Caffeine. 15 minutes later when in system, get on the bike, do 5 minutes steady state, 5 minutes all out high resistance, then 30-40 minutes steady state. The 5 minutes of hell should release epinepherine and norepinepherine which will burn fat during the 30-40 minutes steady state.


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks joe i will do the next few weeks at 2100 cals and if its not working then i will drop the cals back some more


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> If you need advice about dirty carb ups, just ask Taylor01.
> 
> Give him an example of one of your refeeds Taylor! I couldn't slam in what you do!


This weekend was pretty lame by my standards, but i'll list it anyhow just so i can see how much sh1te i actually consumed

Depletion session followed by:

Shake 40g protein 80g carbs

Multipower crunch fit, CNP pro flapjack(as i was driving home)

Hour later, tiny slice of cheesecake(and it actually was)

Hour later ish, 7inch calzone pizza with bolognese and extra cheese

Potato wedges, portion of dry chicken tikka

That meal would usually be much larger but as i was going out i didn't wanna be bloated and gagging for a dump

Couple hours later, quarter of a 600g chocolate and vanilla cheesecake

Couple hours later, half portion of sweet n sour chicken balls, leftovers from parents meal

Followed by nearly a full box of coco pops with loads of full fat milk and sugar, only stopped there as i ran out of milk

Thats pretty poor going for me:confused1:


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

Would you check my refeed please?

3.30pm Depletion session followed by:

50g whey 50g Malto 50g Wax Maze 50g Dex

Same again 2hrs later

Chili with rice & a 1ltr of Lucozade

50g Mp Smooth Milk night time shake with 50g each of Malt/Dex/Wax

Breakfast = 50g whey 50g Dex and 100g oats with a banana. 2xtoast with syrup, muffin,

1x whole malt loaf and a pint of fresh OJ

Chicken, sweet potatoes and veg

Steak, Sweet Pots and veg

Whey & oats

1ltr Lucozade, 2 bags of wine gums and a HP protein bar

Night time shake with 50g Dex/Maze/Malto

Seems to work great though the early morning cardio feels........Urrrrrrrrrg!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Taylor01 said:


> This weekend was pretty lame by my standards, but i'll list it anyhow just so i can see how much sh1te i actually consumed
> 
> Depletion session followed by:
> 
> ...


That is really crap for you mate. I've known you to double that quantity! What you playing at?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

The Big Dog said:


> Would you check my refeed please?
> 
> 3.30pm Depletion session followed by:
> 
> ...


Not bad totals, however, I'd move up the night time shake, and 1ltr lucozade and wine gums to the top of the list. and the sweet potato meals to be the last 2 meals of the carb up. Your body will deal with the simple sugars better at the start of carb up, then move onto the slower carbs.

Maybe:

3.30pm Depletion session followed by:

50g whey 50g Malto 50g Wax Maze 50g Dex

Same again 2hrs later

50g Mp Smooth Milk night time shake with 50g each of Malt/Dex/Wax

Breakfast = 50g whey 50g Dex and 100g oats with a banana. 2xtoast with syrup, muffin,

1ltr Lucozade, 2 bags of wine gums and a HP protein bar

1x whole malt loaf and a pint of fresh OJ

Night time shake with 50g Dex/Maze/Malto

Night time shake with 50g Dex/Maze/Malto

Chili with rice & a 1ltr of Lucozade

Chicken, sweet potatoes and veg

Steak, Sweet Pots and veg

Whey & oats


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> That is really crap for you mate. I've known you to double that quantity! What you playing at?


I know, i even bought a tub of ben n jerry's, and didn't eat it.

I was at someone else's house after my pizza etc so didnt do my usual gluttonous pig thing. Next time i'll do it properly, and so i should after i gave you a talking to about pansy carb ups.


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

even that seems like a lot to me taylor i usually have

friday

100g dex 50 whey

pack of haribo

baked potato and tuna or big bowl of pasta and sauce

tub of ben and jerrys frozen yoghurt

saturday

bowl of bran flakes

2 slice of brown toast and cheese

brown tuna sub roll and small cake

go out for a carvery all you can eat( 2 slice meat and all the spuds and veg you want)

steak, spuds and veg/ dominos texas bbq medium pizza

one more tub of b&j if i can manage (very rare though)

that any good?


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

I'd say that beats mine this week. I normally go proper mental and it seems to work.

Anyhow, i blame B1GJOE, when i first started dieting at the same time he did, when first cheat meal came around, he said, 'you are going to eat at least 4000cals in one hit, aren't you?'

So the challenge was set and ive been going gradually more and more crazy each week, and now i'm doing a CKD it's actually got a proper purpose, and you can probably see why i only refeed from the end of depletion until i go to bed the same night.

I could do far too much damage in a 24 hour refeed window, i think i'd go throught the night and not bother sleeping to get more in.

And yes, I am a greedy [email protected] lol


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

i seem to have a dirty refeed every time now i think i have a problem lol

i seem to be losing weight at the moment but i still feel as if my stomach and chest arent losing any fat in that area,

clothes feel loser but thats about it

is this good news or bad?


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

Everyone has stubborn areas where the fat comes off last, are you losing, maintaining or gaining strength?

Oh, and are you taking measurements?


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> Fortunately for you I've just done my macro's for the week. And to be honest for the last 4-5 weeks I've been going against my own advice, and going sub 2000 cals, and it has been working. I'm now 2 weeks out, so this week I'm going even lower.
> 
> My current weights (204lbs Friday Morning in depleted state)
> 
> ...


calorie wise how low should i go?

i was on 1700 cals as stated earlier in the thread.

protein was 130g the rest was fat


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

Taylor01 said:


> Everyone has stubborn areas where the fat comes off last, are you losing, maintaining or gaining strength?
> 
> Oh, and are you taking measurements?


i would say that at the start of the diet i was gaining strength, 8 weeks into it and i think i am maintaining as my lifts are going up slowly.

i am not sure what to do about my cals

people were saying they were too low at 1700 and the protein was too low,

the last thing i want is to do all this dieting and cardio and still end up with a fat stomach and moobs but 2 stone lighter, that is my biggest fear :scared:

i check my body fat with some calipers and that it mate, they can be inaccurate at the best of times

should i take measurements from my waist, chest, back etc? :confused1:


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

I've put a mate on a CKD, so this is all just opinion and the way i do it, but we get measurements of:

Waist(belly button), chest (nipple line), upper arm, thigh, calf

Skinfold measurements on about 6 sites.

Lifts going up slowly is still progress, and should stop you losing muscle IMO, so you wont end up losing all your muscle and be left as a skeleton with a belly.

I'm not much different bodyweight wise than you and my calories aren't very high to be honest, but i've just re-jigged things slightly so can't say how high or low they are until i've figured it out.

Just find yourself a happy medium where you're losing fat and maintaining/slowly increasing strength, then keep adjusting when you stall, but not in huge amounts.


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

im back at 1900 cals with 160g protein and 15g carbs the rest fat thats 200 cal more than i have been on in the past few weeks

i will start taking measurements i shall get my good lady to help especially with the most important measurement lol

i have on been using the 1 site for my skinfold measuremnet the one above your right hipbone, forgot the name of it begins with an "s"


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

suprailiac?

I can't remember the ones we do, Suprailiac, subscap, abdomen, bicep, tricep, few others i think.


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

sounds like it to me mate,

what do you think about the cardio?

too much not enough?

i must be doing your head in with all these questions


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## Taylor01 (Mar 28, 2008)

Na it's cool mate, sitting on here is helping me put off other stuff i should be doing but don't want to.

If it's working, stick with it for now until you stall, then increase.

I always find it easier to increase cardio before lowering cals, because it still means you get to eat plenty, and therefore less likely to jack it in because your starving. lol


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## andy51086 (Jun 25, 2008)

Taylor01 said:


> Na it's cool mate, sitting on here is helping me put off other stuff i should be doing but don't want to.
> 
> If it's working, stick with it for now until you stall, then increase.
> 
> I always find it easier to increase cardio before lowering cals, because it still means you get to eat plenty, and therefore less likely to jack it in because your starving. lol


glad i can be of help :thumb:

i see what your saying, i feel pretty full on what i eat just now, i dont crave anything carb wise until thursday :laugh:

i guess thats because i have been doing the diet 8 weeks now so its easier to get into ketosis

i couldnt imagine doing anymore cardio at the moment, if needs must then i will


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