# how toxic is testosterone on the liver



## massive bastard (Jul 4, 2010)

Just wondering how toxic synthetic testosterone is on the liver and kidneys ?

and what would it be a good comparison to putting into your body?

ie three pints of beer or pain kills or coke or smack.

maybe a daft question but it one I feel I need to ask!!!

any opinion would be great thanks :bounce:


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

Depends if you mean injectable test or orals.

Now this is just my opinion, but I think the harmfull effects of oral steroids are very exaggerated.


----------



## massive bastard (Jul 4, 2010)

hi mate was thinking injectable testosterone but opinions on oral steroids would be good aswell


----------



## suliktribal (Apr 4, 2010)

As far as I'm aware, injectable test isn't hepatoxic at all. It doesn't have to survive a pass through your liver as it's absorbed into the bloodstream first, I gather.

Orals...well, there's some debate about that. Orals have to survive a pass through your liver and therefore, theoretically will do damage as it has to survive being destroyed.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

suliktribal said:


> *As far as I'm aware, injectable test isn't hepatoxic at all*. It doesn't have to survive a pass through your liver as it's absorbed into the bloodstream first, I gather.
> 
> Orals...well, there's some debate about that. Orals have to survive a pass through your liver and therefore, theoretically will do damage as it has to survive being destroyed.


Erm. it most certainly is.


----------



## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> Erm. it most certainly is.


 I thought so....but please elaborate a little more mate.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

mars1960 said:


> Erm. it most certainly is.


Not very


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

It cant be to bad or Else trt would slowly kill you.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

I just read an aritcle that says that testosterone toxicity is why men's mortality rate is naturally higher than that of women's....We die younger...but that could be something to do with 75 years of ear ache..."Oh I'm ready lord"...:laugh:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/men/story.html?id=fe5d335b-cec2-401c-9503-896be36480dc&k=81732

Not exactly Nasa grade research but there's no smoke without fire...


----------



## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

Being a bit of a 'Test Geek' these days, I was reading about TRT for HIV patients and from this found that injectable Test is highly hepatoxic to those with a compromised liver function.

There is also mention in the same study that it can be problematic to those with a healthy liver function.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Its low mate, we manufacture testosterone ourselves.

If dose is high, then moreso, but its low liver toxic.


----------



## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

gearchange said:


> It cant be to bad or Else trt would slowly kill you.


 No because most of what we do stresses the organs in some fashion.

Its to what extent that determines if real damage is done.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Not very


True, but then that depends on what comparisons you make.

Also esters play a role in testosterones hepatotoxicity.


----------



## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

massive bastard said:


> Just wondering how toxic synthetic testosterone is on the liver and kidneys ?
> 
> and what would it be a good comparison to putting into your body?
> 
> ...


Toxic would mean that when it is broken down in the liver it causes damage - this is not the case with injectable T. The side effects of very high doses of T on the liver and especially the kidneys do though cause damage (eg high blood pressure or high cholesterol)


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Its minimal unless you bang large amounts.

I have a few books that I just looked at along with the PDF for cypionate and they all suggest low toxcicity.

But, if anyone can find me something to read, I would love to see it.

I did read the cholesterol issue with liver, but again, with doses that are associated with TRT that isnt an issue.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Old but not out said:


> *Toxic would mean that when it is broken down in the liver it causes damage - this is not the case with injectable T*. The side effects of very high doses of T on the liver and especially the kidneys do though cause damage (eg high blood pressure or high cholesterol)


Get your facts right mate  . There is lots of reading material on injectable testosterone and hepatotoxicity and i'm not talking through secondary causes.

PS, as i pointed out earlier even different esters can have an effect on it's hepatotoxicity.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

When you say "hepatotoxic" sure it utilises the liver, or the liver has to do its job, but in in no way "stresses" it directly even at high doses of test

OBNO is correct, secondary factors are far more relevant to liver and kidney damage


----------



## massive bastard (Jul 4, 2010)

Wow thanks for great responses to my question lads tbh I hope this carries on as it seems to cause a bit of controversy and will a good source of info into the dangers to the liver and other organs. Thanks again lads


----------



## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> Get your facts right mate  . There is lots of reading material on injectable testosterone and hepatotoxicity and i'm not talking through secondary causes.
> 
> PS, as i pointed out earlier even different esters can have an effect on it's hepatotoxicity.


I suggest you read yourself

J Pharmacol Toxicol Methods. 1995 Aug;33(4):187-95.

Toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures.

Welder AA, Robertson JW, Melchert RB.

College of Pharmacy, Toxicology Program, University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, USA.

Abstract

Hepatic complications in athletes and bodybuilders after abusing anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) have been reported. Hepatic injury, including cholestasis, peliosis hepatis, hyperplasia, and tumors, have been attributed to abuse of the 17 alpha-alkylated AAS. Some of these pathological conditions have been reversed when individuals were converted to nonalkylated AAS regimens. The purpose of this study was to determine and compare the direct toxic effects of commonly abused AAS (both 17 alpha-alkylated and nonalkylated) in primary hepatic cell cultures. Primary cultures, established from 60-day-old Sprague-Dawley rats, were exposed to doses of 1 x 10(-8), 1 x 10(-6), and 1 x 10(-4)M 19-nortestosterone, fluoxymesterone, testosterone cypionate, stanozolol, danazol, oxymetholone, testosterone, estradiol, and methyltestosterone for 1, 4, and 24 hr. Lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release, neutral red (NR) retention, and glutathione (GSH) depletion were evaluated to determine plasma membrane damage, cell viability, and possible oxidative injury, respectively. Those cultures exposed to the 17 alpha-alkylated AAS, methyltestosterone and stanozolol, at doses of 1 x 10(-4) M for 24 hr and the 17 alpha-alkylated AAS, oxymetholone, at 1 x 10(-4) M for 4 and 24 hr showed significant increased in LDH release and decreases in NR retention while there were no significant differences with the nonalkylated steroids (testosterone cypionate, 19-nortestosterone, testosterone, and estradiol). GSH depletion was evaluated in cultures treated with 1 x 10(-8), 1 x 10(-6), and 1 x 10(-4) M concentrations of methyltestosterone, stanozolol, and oxymetholone for 1, 2, 4, and 6 hr. Cultures exposed to 1 x 10(-4) M oxymetholone were significantly depleted of GSH at 2, 4, and 6 hr; cultures exposed to 1 x 10(-4) M methyltestosterone were significantly depleted of GSH at 4 and 6 hr; and cultures exposed to stanozolol were not significantly depleted of GSH at any of the time periods tested. *These data indicate that the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids (methyltestosterone, oxymetholone, and stanozolol) are directly toxic to hepatocytes, whereas the nonalkylated steroids (testosterone cypionate, 19-nortestosterone, testosterone, and estradiol) show no effects at similar doses.* These data demonstrate a trend toward a structural-activity relationship to AAS-induced toxicity in primary cultures of rat hepatocytes.

Sports Med. 2004;34(8):513-54.

Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids in athletes.

Hartgens F, Kuipers H.

Department of Surgery, Outpatient Clinic Sports Medicine, University Hospital Maastricht, and Sports Medicine Center Maastricht, Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Abstract

Androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) are synthetic derivatives of the male hormone testosterone. They can exert strong effects on the human body that may be beneficial for athletic performance. A review of the literature revealed that most laboratory studies did not investigate the actual doses of AAS currently abused in the field. Therefore, those studies may not reflect the actual (adverse) effects of steroids. The available scientific literature describes that short-term administration of these drugs by athletes can increase strength and bodyweight. Strength gains of about 5-20% of the initial strength and increments of 2-5 kg bodyweight, that may be attributed to an increase of the lean body mass, have been observed. A reduction of fat mass does not seem to occur. Although AAS administration may affect erythropoiesis and blood haemoglobin concentrations, no effect on endurance performance was observed. Little data about the effects of AAS on metabolic responses during exercise training and recovery are available and, therefore, do not allow firm conclusions. The main untoward effects of short- and long-term AAS abuse that male athletes most often self-report are an increase in sexual drive, the occurrence of acne vulgaris, increased body hair and increment of aggressive behaviour. AAS administration will disturb the regular endogenous production of testosterone and gonadotrophins that may persist for months after drug withdrawal. Cardiovascular risk factors may undergo deleterious alterations, including elevation of blood pressure and depression of serum high-density lipoprotein (HDL)-, HDL2- and HDL3-cholesterol levels. In echocardiographic studies in male athletes, AAS did not seem to affect cardiac structure and function, although in animal studies these drugs have been observed to exert hazardous effects on heart structure and function. I*n studies of athletes, AAS were not found to damage the liver.* Psyche and behaviour seem to be strongly affected by AAS. Generally, AAS seem to induce increments of aggression and hostility. Mood disturbances (e.g. depression, [hypo-]mania, psychotic features) are likely to be dose and drug dependent. AAS dependence or withdrawal effects (such as depression) seem to occur only in a small number of AAS users. Dissatisfaction with the body and low self-esteem may lead to the so-called 'reverse anorexia syndrome' that predisposes to the start of AAS use. Many other adverse effects have been associated with AAS misuse, including disturbance of endocrine and immune function, alterations of sebaceous system and skin, changes of haemostatic system and urogenital tract. One has to keep in mind that the scientific data may underestimate the actual untoward effects because of the relatively low doses administered in those studies, since they do not approximate doses used by illicit steroid users. The mechanism of action of AAS may differ between compounds because of variations in the steroid molecule and affinity to androgen receptors. Several pathways of action have been recognised. The enzyme 5-alpha-reductase seems to play an important role by converting AAS into dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone) that acts in the cell nucleus of target organs, such as male accessory glands, skin and prostate. Other mechanisms comprises mediation by the enzyme aromatase that converts AAS in female sex hormones (estradiol and estrone), antagonistic action to estrogens and a competitive antagonism to the glucocorticoid receptors. Furthermore, AAS stimulate erythropoietin synthesis and red cell production as well as bone formation but counteract bone breakdown. The effects on the cardiovascular system are proposed to be mediated by the occurrence of AAS-induced atherosclerosis (due to unfavourable influence on serum lipids and lipoproteins), thrombosis, vasospasm or direct injury to vessel walls, or may be ascribed to a combination of the different mechanisms. AAS-induced increment of muscle tissue can be attributed to hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibres, in which key roles are played by satellite cell number and ultrastructure, androgen receptors and myonucle

Clin Interv Aging. 2007;2(4):567-76.

The many faces of testosterone.

Bain J.

Department of Medicine, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. [email protected]

Abstract

Testosterone is more than a "male sex hormone". It is an important contributor to the robust metabolic functioning of multiple bodily systems. The abuse of anabolic steroids by athletes over the years has been one of the major detractors from the investigation and treatment of clinical states that could be caused by or related to male hypogonadism. The unwarranted fear that testosterone therapy would induce prostate cancer has also deterred physicians form pursuing more aggressively the possibility of hypogonadism in symptomatic male patients. In addition to these two mythologies, many physicians believe that testosterone is bad for the male heart. *The classical anabolic agents, 17-alkylated steroids, are, indeed, potentially harmful to the liver, to insulin action to lipid metabolism. These substances, however, are not testosterone, which has none of these adverse effects.* The current evidence, in fact, strongly suggests that testosterone may be cardioprotective. There is virtually no evidence to implicate testosterone as a cause of prostate cancer. It may exacerbate an existing prostate cancer, although the evidence is flimsy, but it does not likely cause the cancer in the first place. Testosterone has stimulatory effects on bones, muscles, erythropoietin, libido, mood and cognition centres in the brain, penile erection. It is reduced in metabolic syndrome and diabetes and therapy with testosterone in these conditions may provide amelioration by lowering LDL cholesterol, blood sugar, glycated hemoglobin and insulin resistance. The best measure is bio-available testosterone which is the fraction of testosterone not bound to sex hormone binding globulin. Several forms of testosterone administration are available making compliance much less of an issue with testosterone replacement therapy.

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2006 Oct 18;(4):CD003045.

Anabolic-androgenic steroids for alcoholic liver disease.

Rambaldi A, Gluud C.

Centre for Clinical Intervention Research, Copenhagen Trial Unit, Department 7102, H:S Rigshospitalet, Blegdamsvej 9, Copenhagen University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark. [email protected]

Update of:

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2003;(1):CD003045.

Abstract

BACKGROUND: Alcohol is one of the most common causes of liver disease in the Western World. Randomised clinical trials have examined the effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids for alcoholic liver disease.

OBJECTIVES: To assess the beneficial and harmful effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids for patients with alcoholic liver disease based on the results of randomised clinical trials.

SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched The Cochrane Hepato-Biliary Group Controlled Trials Register, The Cochrane Controlled Trials Register in The Cochrane Library, MEDLINE, EMBASE, LILACS, and Science Citation Index Expanded until June 2006. Electronic searches were combined with full text searches. Manufacturers and researchers in the field were also contacted.

SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised clinical trials studying patients with alcoholic steatosis, alcoholic fibrosis, alcoholic hepatitis, and/or alcoholic cirrhosis were included. Interventions encompassed anabolic-androgenic steroids at any dose or duration versus placebo or no intervention. The trials could be double blind, single blind, or unblinded. The trials could be unpublished or published, and no language limitations were applied.

DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Outcomes are assessed at maximal follow-up. All analyses were performed according to the intention-to-treat method. The statistical package RevMan Analyses was used. The methodological quality of the randomised clinical trials was assessed.

MAIN RESULTS: Combining the results of five randomised clinical trials randomising 499 patients with alcoholic hepatitis and/or cirrhosis demonstrated no significant effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids on mortality (relative risk (RR) 1.01, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.79 to 1.29), liver-related mortality (RR 0.83, 95% CI 0.60 to 1.15), complications of liver disease (RR 1.25, 95% CI 0.74 to 2.10), and liver histology. *Anabolic-androgenic steroids did not significantly affect a number of other outcome measures, including sexual function and liver biochemistry.* Anabolic-androgenic steroids were not associated with a significantly increased risk of non-serious adverse events (RR 1.14, 95% CI 0.50 to 2.59) or with serious adverse events (RR 4.54, 95% CI 0.57 to 36.30).

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: This systematic review could not demonstrate any significant beneficial effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids on any clinically important outcomes (mortality, liver-related mortality, liver complications, and histology) of patients with alcoholic liver disease.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

I wouldn't worry the tiniest bit about the hepatotoxicity of injectables.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

jw007 said:


> When you say "hepatotoxic" sure it utilises the liver, or the liver has to do its job, but in in no way "stresses" it directly even at high doses of test
> 
> OBNO is correct, secondary factors are far more relevant to liver and kidney damage


You are both wrong. And OBNO, get off the rat cell culture crap, when i said reading material i mean't relevant reading material.

17b hydroxyl esters of testosterone (IE testosterone enanthate) have in rare cases using high dose regimes above standard TRT caused peliosis hepatitis and hepatic angisarcoma :tongue: .

But i agree with suitelf, i'm not worried, it's very rare, but the hepatotoxicity of the 17b hydroxyl esters of testosterone still exists.


----------



## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> 17b hydroxyl esters of testosterone (IE testosterone enanthate) have in rare cases using high dose regimes above standard TRT caused peliosis hepatitis and hepatic angisarcoma :tongue: .
> 
> But i agree with suitelf, i'm not worried, it's very rare, but the hepatotoxicity of the 17b hydroxyl esters of testosterone still exists.


Which is what I said earlier (without the 'science bit') but no one listened........... :tongue:


----------



## Doink (Sep 21, 2010)

As far as i'm aware the only concrete evidence was that taking testosterone above normal blood levels while suffering from decreased liver function i.e hepatits or while using medication that can be liver toxic can add further stress to the liver.

I've never heard or read anything definite about injectable test that indicated one way or the other with regards to usage with a healthy liver function.

Mars's examples are debateable here, Although he never provided a link to the study so i can't be 100% but The peliosis hepatitis is debatable as a contributing factor

as this can be increased blood pressure in the liver and also it can be caused by the use of tamoxifen as well as by androgens, which throws open another area of discussion.

And most of the evidence and causes are only based on hypothetical situations.

So it's a shady example, plus who's to say that it was definitely increased test that caused the Hepatic Angi*o*sarcoma*?

As i imagine you'd know that's often caused by foreign bodies or toxins travelling through blood vessels.. It could be anything, plastic, steel, Fairy dust, The list is endless and i doubt any evidence is conclusive enough to determine that this was undoubtebly caused by testosterone.

So i wouldn't state that as a good example,

It's debatable at best in this particular discussion, I'm More than willing to apologise if i'm proved wrong on this but i'm doubtful on that particular factor. It just couldn't be proven imo.

Now before you spit your dummy out like you did last time i asked you a question mars, i'm not SAYING you're wrong, i'm just saying the evidence here as with most things AAS related is debateable and open to interpretation,

I personally haven't seen any evidence that was conclusive enough to convince me one way or the other with regards to injectable test and as with many things it's probably user dependant, so i keep an open mind on the subject.

If you've got this evidence i'd love to see a link or example, rather than just vague or debatable quotes with no indication of where the info came from.

Cheers.


----------



## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> You are both wrong. And OBNO, get off the rat cell culture crap, when i said reading material i mean't relevant reading material.
> 
> 17b hydroxyl esters of testosterone (IE testosterone enanthate) have in rare cases using high dose regimes above standard TRT caused peliosis hepatitis and hepatic angisarcoma :tongue: .
> 
> But i agree with suitelf, i'm not worried, it's very rare, but the hepatotoxicity of the 17b hydroxyl esters of testosterone still exists.


I suggest you read again - only one is on rat cell "culture crap" all others are on human males but then again it may not suit you to read those


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Old but not out said:


> I suggest you read again - only one is on rat cell "culture crap" *all others are on human males* but then again it may not suit you to read those


 :lol: , iv'e read them twice, couldn't find any conclusive study that was actually done, as you are well aware by the small parts that you highlited.

So in fact they are not studies.

*17b hydroxyl dehydrogenase estered testesterones, textbook of hepatotoxicology volume 4, £75+ from your medical outlets, why don't you take a fcuking read*  .

Anyways enough of this, go back to your aromatase formula and believe what you like, at least i can put you on my ignore list so i don't have to read the rubbish you spout from what is in effect your very limited knowledge of most things, what is it they say? "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". :whistling:


----------



## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> :lol: , iv'e read them twice, couldn't find any conclusive study that was actually done, as you are well aware by the small parts that you highlited.
> 
> So in fact they are not studies.
> 
> ...


Again you are wrong - the last is a study. The other two are reviews - and as I would hope you realise all written in a review is referenced to a study that has appeared in a peer reviewed journal or book. The information is VERY relevant and has also been proven to the satisfaction of independent referees with very relevant qualifications.

As for "limited knowledge" I would have no idea wether I know more or less about the off licence use of AAS and related PEDS when compared to yourself. What I am very sure of is that 20 years of research has ensured I am more than able to read, understand and realise the relevance of of the papers I have posted (which obviously you do not). The book you suggest I read is almost 10 years old - which means the references are even older!! This means that at least three of the references I have provided are from more modern researchers! Plus it amazes me that you criticise review papers but are happy to quote a book - which in itself is a series of large reviews!!

Add me to your ignore please, I won t lie in bed tonight worrying about it.

I will return to my Aromatase formula but I suggest you do a little reading on very basic statistics. You might then realise that quoting a standard deviation in a research paper does not in any way suggest that the figures are in any way significant - as you have suggested on two occasions on the board.


----------



## benny_boy555 (Feb 2, 2015)

hackskii said:


> Not very


 as in a beer a day is not very hepatoxic? (not being a funny c*nt just wondering how test compares to drinking every day.)


----------



## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

benny_boy555 said:


> as in a beer a day is not very hepatoxic? (not being a funny c*nt just wondering how test compares to drinking every day.)


 ....sneaks in....

this is a 6 year old thread...

....sneaks back out.....


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Mildo said:


> ....sneaks in....
> 
> this is a 6 year old thread...
> 
> ....sneaks back out.....


 .....sneaks in....

this is a 7 year old thread .......

.....sneaks back out........


----------



## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

Still relevant and worthy of the bump


----------

