# Why do naturals have to state they are naturals



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

.. ever noticed how natural bodybuilders always announce themselves as naturals where as the rest of us just say we are bodybuilders

why is this????? i always feel they are trying to gain some moral higher ground to make up for the fact that they are mainly pretty small

when a guy says to me he is a natural i just think ... you dont want it enough mate , stick to spinning or pump classes

im not talking about the newbies who are trying to gain size naturally before they decide to make the jump ... its the guys who classify themselves as bodybuilders but have to state they are natural bodybuilders

:thumbup1:


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

CON is a natural bodybuilder and he is far from small...... I think they proud of doing it without aid maybe?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

because they want to? does it bug you in some way?


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I got nothing against nattys... But no need to put it under your avatar


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

offo said:


> CON is a natural bodybuilder and he is far from small...... I think they proud of doing it without aid maybe?


ahahahahaha mate I hope you're joking


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Maybe because if you tell someone you are a bodybuilder they will assume that means you take steroids, its just known to be involved in the sport.

Perhaps its also to explain to a bigger bodybuilder why they are not as big, because they're natural.

I wouldn't agree people who are natural don't want it enough!


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> because they want to? does it bug you in some way?


only bugs me to the extent that they use it as a crutch to account for their lack of size .....


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## Bulldog88 (Aug 23, 2008)

i am natural and do not brag about it but the only reason i am natural is because i'm skint at the minute and can't afford them:cursing: maybe next year tho :thumbup1:


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

Personally I got into the sport because I was totally inspired by the assisted physiques. The natural look will never do anything for me. I think they like to say that they are natural so that people don't just think they are **** 'assisted' guys.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

offo said:


> CON is a natural bodybuilder and he is far from small...... I think they proud of doing it without aid maybe?


if you classify test as a natural substance i guess he is .. would question how naturally the test gets in his system without a needle


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## NB89 (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm still unsure on whether I will or won't use steroids.

Personally, at the moment i see the challenge of training naturally to see where my limits lay and once you reach your 'limit', exceeding it. This is probably the main reason for proclaiming yourself natural. A bit like completing a video game without using cheats, you get that added sense of achievement?

Also, what puts me off steroids and so taking them (I know I will get flamed for this), is the possibility of developing health problems later on in life, whether it be with my heart, testes or whatever.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> .. ever noticed how natural bodybuilders always announce themselves as naturals where as the rest of us just say we are bodybuilders
> 
> why is this????? i always feel they are trying to gain some moral higher ground to make up for the fact that they are mainly pretty small
> 
> ...


Many beleive they are natural because they have been "off" for a prolonged period. That is not natural.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

musc said:


> Personally I got into the sport because I was totally inspired by the assisted physiques. The natural look will never do anything for me. I think they like to say that they are natural so that people don't just think they are **** 'assisted' guys.


do they think by disassociation with steroid users gives them a moral high ground .... by stating their natural status it just implies the other guys rely on steroids for their size


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

musc said:


> Personally I got into the sport because I was totally inspired by the assisted physiques. The natural look will never do anything for me. I think they like to say that they are natural so that people don't just think they are **** 'assisted' guys.


nvm


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

Well I remember there being a discussion when someone said does it annoy you when guys get real big on steds etc..... I cant remember the whole conversation, Maybe I am wrong


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Liam said:


> or because they dont want any health problems / side effects / spend the money etc?


or big muscles ... lol


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I think its the lack of size thing, they look good but generally people associate bodybuilders which hugely muscled beasts


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

is there any big natural bodybuilders on site


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Well if someone who is natural gets to a good size and condition I see nothing wrong with them being proud of the fact they did it unassissted. meaning they had to more effort into diet and training (I'm not saying users don't put effort in to these, just that if your natural and do well you have to be very strict/consistent)


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## Bulldog88 (Aug 23, 2008)

offo said:


> Well I remember there being a discussion when someone said does it annoy you when guys get real big on steds etc..... I cant remember the whole conversation, Maybe I am wrong


Yeah i think i remember that 1 i think the guy got banned or something, to be honest it doesn't annoy me at all i can't wait until i start next year


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

hey dont get me wrong i got nothing against natural bodybuilders just dont know why they state they are natural ... why not just say you are a bodybuilder just not as big as some other bodybuilders


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> only bugs me to the extent that they use it as a crutch to account for their lack of size .....


Dont really think thats fair.Im not anyway taking the moral highground here,as many of my friends have taken them over the past thirty years,and some of the experiences that ive seen are far from desired.Thats my reason for not using them, nothing ethical.However its a lifestyle choice, and I would not judge.Having said that, if you have averae genetics building muscular size beyond normal levels is very hard, and i believe naturals state their "naturalness" in a bid to gain recognition for the hard work thats been put in, EVEN though they may not have the size of a user.Im not insinutating that steroid users dont work hard.Put the boot on the other foot. How would you feel standing next to an 18 year old Casey Viator, while he tells all that hes natural, and your not, even though he dwarfs you?


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

I guess it depends what context you mean, conversation situation etc.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Liam said:


> Well if someone who is natural gets to a good size and condition I see nothing wrong with them being proud of the fact they did it unassissted. meaning they had to more effort into diet and training (I'm not saying users don't put effort in to these, just that if your natural and do well you have to be very strict/consistent)


this is where i disagree and think it highlights the point i am trying to make .... they dont put more effort in than assisted guys ... no where near ... when on gear you train harder and heavier than ever .. you reach the point of pain and go past it ... you eat even when u dont wanna eat..... as a natural u are limited by nature u cant physically go to that point


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

i think many look upon steroids as an easier way than training natural?


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

ShaunMc said:


> this is where i disagree and think it highlights the point i am trying to make .... they dont put more effort in than assisted guys ... no where near ... when on gear you train harder and heavier than ever .. you reach the point of pain and go past it ... you eat even when u dont wanna eat..... as a natural u are limited by nature u cant physically go to that point


So true.... its so easy for a natural to say yeah well i'd look like that if i jabbed my @rse its just not the case.

In the gym if you point out a good physique alot of the time natty's will say yeah but he's on gear. All that is them trying to deal with their own insecurity by trying to take people's acheivements away. There are thousands of people accross the UK that use juice and don't even grow, that is why it annoys me when people say stuff like that as they don't have a clue what the guys that are in that shape do out of the gym. The relentless eating, personal sacrifice, etc etc.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> this is where i disagree and think it highlights the point i am trying to make .... they dont put more effort in than assisted guys ... no where near ... when on gear you train harder and heavier than ever .. you reach the point of pain and go past it ... you eat even when u dont wanna eat..... as a natural u are limited by nature u cant physically go to that point


They dont neccessarily put in more effort.However the results gleaned from the amount of effort expended percentage wise, is not as great as a user,otherwise there would be no point in using drugs.So therefore the 5/6 lbs of muscle that a Nat gains over say the course of a year, represents a far greater investment of time and effort.


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## barcz69 (Apr 29, 2008)

obviously u aint seen pics of sum of the natural bodybuilders around and then ul realise they do a lot more then spinning mate


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> ..stick to spinning or pump classes
> 
> :thumbup1:


 :lol: :lol:


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

essexboy said:


> They dont neccessarily put in more effort.However the results gleaned from the amount of effort expended percentage wise, is not as great as a user,otherwise there would be no point in using drugs.So therefore the 5/6 lbs of muscle that a Nat gains over say the course of a year, represents a far greater investment of time and effort.


again this is where naturals get it so wrong and use the steroid argument to account for their lack of success .. loads of guys use gear and carry on training as before and make no gains ..... the reason is its how you train when your on it which is a big factor .. u can push way beyond pain

watch a few clips of Ronnie Coleman training and then a clip of the top natural .... tell me then that the natural is putting in more effort ....lol


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

Put some up then mate, lets open the debate up!

As ever im behind the curve here, i meant put up some pics of the naturals as an answer to about 3 posts back!!


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

barcz69 said:


> obviously u aint seen pics of sum of the natural bodybuilders around and then ul realise they do a lot more then spinning mate


i know they do ... thats why i said spinning and pump classes ... hey it was meant to provoke debate which it has


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## Bulldog88 (Aug 23, 2008)

Not all naturals will turn around and say oh he's on roids just because they are bigger i certainly don't, a few of my friends are on steroids but ther is a couple of them that aren't as big as me.... yet, which is why i am looking to invest in some myself very soon.


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## barcz69 (Apr 29, 2008)

fair point lol


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

ShaunMC,the problem as a 'natural' to push too far would just lead to burn out and would never recover just like if he/she had mad sessions every 7days whereas an assisted person would recover,its what most stuff does.

As for eating most,just look at some of the 'mericans who could eat any of you guys out of any eatery AND chew the fat!!


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## barcz69 (Apr 29, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> again this is where naturals get it so wrong and use the steroid argument to account for their lack of success .. loads of guys use gear and carry on training as before and make no gains ..... the reason is its how you train when your on it which is a big factor .. u can push way beyond pain
> 
> watch a few clips of Ronnie Coleman training and then a clip of the top natural .... tell me then that the natural is putting in more effort ....lol


yea but if u put a user and a natty with similar genetic potential doing the same exercises with the same weights and eating the same food the user would grow more, even though the effort is the same a the natty.

Good thread by the way mate seems to be hitting a few nerves lol


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

barcz69 said:


> yea but if u put a user and a natty with similar genetic potential doing the same exercises with the same weights and eating the same food the user would grow more, even though the effort is the same a the natty.
> 
> Good thread by the way mate seems to be hitting a few nerves lol


i know what your saying mate but as blue said the same effort cant be applied because the natty would burn out way before he reached the effort required....

im not sayin that they dont train hard but quite ofetn i feel the competitive natty just wants to be a big fish in a very small pond


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> again this is where naturals get it so wrong and use the steroid argument to account for their lack of success .. loads of guys use gear and carry on training as before and make no gains ..... the reason is its how you train when your on it which is a big factor .. u can push way beyond pain
> 
> watch a few clips of Ronnie Coleman training and then a clip of the top natural .... tell me then that the natural is putting in more effort ....lol


 what you mean ronnie coleman uses steroids?


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

essexboy said:


> what you mean ronnie coleman uses steroids?


No just GH and creatine


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## cosa (Sep 8, 2008)

maybe it makes them feal like theyve worked harder in some way, which we all now is far from the thruth dosnt matter if you say it or not 9 times out of 10 if your a big person people instantly think ur on the gear anyway


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Nick B said:


> Also, what puts me off steroids and so taking them (I know I will get flamed for this), is the possibility of developing health problems later on in life, whether it be with my heart, testes or whatever.


this is a fair point although i do think a point blown out of proportion....you would not drink alcohol or smoke then?



Liam said:


> meaning they had to more effort into diet and training (I'm not saying users don't put effort in to these, just that if your natural and do well you have to be very strict/consistent)


sorry to say Liam but this is such a naive way of thinking it is pitiful steroids will promote muscle growth but it won't do it without diet and training you can train longer and more often than a natural because recovery is better but to say they put more effort in is stupid....



offo said:


> i think many look upon steroids as an easier way than training natural?


if it was that easy i would of been winning shows 20yrs ago when i started using steroids then....

there is a size difference between assisted and non-assisted bodybuilders but the muscle each of those to groups have built is through diet and training yes you will get individuals on both sides that do not need to be as detailed with their diet or train with as much effort as the rest of us to achieve their goals but make no mistake to build good *keep able *muscle diet and training has to be good no matter what path you take......

i do agree with Shaun though on why some naturals preach about it, i don't see the likes of Rob Hope Mezza or Fivos pushing the fact they are natural down everyones throats in fact you see it more from the guys who do not compete and look "normal" that feel the need to explain they are natural....although it doesn't bug me anymore it makes me laugh they feel the need to do it....


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

musc said:


> Put some up then mate, lets open the debate up!


Lets not,it's bullsh1t.

Imo the simple reason unassisted athletes display the fact they are "natural" is because they do not wish to be associated with drugs.

As for who trains harder,there can be no denying that both groups at an advanced/competitive level are equally disciplined.

As for your typical friday night mirror boy i would suggest strongly that his diet,training and lifestyle will not be as structured as that of a natural,as, if success is desired,being unassisted does not allow for it.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> this is a fair point although i do think a point blown out of proportion....you would not drink alcohol or smoke then?
> 
> sorry to say Liam but this is such a naive way of thinking it is pitiful steroids will promote muscle growth but it won't do it without diet and training you can train longer and more often than a natural because recovery is better but to say they put more effort in is stupid....
> 
> ...


well made point mate


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I mention on forums when asked that Im natural . I dont use it as a badge of honour or to gain higher moral ground just so that others can judge the advice I am giving or the questions I am asking .

An excuse for smaller muscles ?? Do me a favour ! BB is a hobby based on personal development . I could give a toss about anyone elses shape .

Do assisted train harder that naturals ? This has to be a yes as they can do more work outs . So naturals dont train hard ? err no , but clearly they train less .

I think we all have a similar aim and love what we are doing and dont like the " them and us " attitude of this post . BB is bloody hard work natural or assisted

(I cant use drugs as I get tested at work )

Anyway spin class starts at 8pm so better get my leg warmers out


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## beefcakebaggie (Jul 9, 2008)

Shaun MC, Maybe we state that because it's a fact? maybe were proud that we don't succumb to peer pressure? Maybe we just don't fancy sticking ourselves? - Whatever the reason, it's different for everyone.

I'm not the type to announce it (I've mentioned it before - but it's mainly to explain why I'm not a beast after 10 years of training), I don't have an issue with guys that use gear & although I may never get as big as them I enjoy the motivation of trying to be.

It sounds like it's your "issue" & your welcome to have it, my issue is slightly different, it's guys who are assisted chemically & claim not to be - That's just lying.


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> .. ever noticed how natural bodybuilders always announce themselves as naturals where as the rest of us just say we are bodybuilders
> 
> why is this????? i always feel they are trying to gain some moral higher ground to make up for the fact that they are mainly pretty small
> 
> ...


i guess im a hypocrite because i have natural under my name which is clear to see on my pic! haha i apreciate the bottom of your thread, and thats exactly how im doing it i think bulking up at the min is to be done in a natural form as im only just 17 and have been doing it 9 months its going to take me a while before i know what im doing.


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## jjj (Jun 1, 2008)

i copmpletely agree with shaunMC on this, there are guys in my gym and ive heard them before saying to new members, pointing at anyone with size, 'yeah that guys on gear thats why hes so big' or if someones benching 150+ and someone says wow look at that- people say, yeah but hes a sted-head thats why he can lift that. such a load of bollocks, so much so that i hid the fact i used gear when i started, then people found out and said 'get me some gear so i look like like you',

and to prove people wrong, i pointed them in the right direction, and loved seeing them 3 months later, no bigger or stronger, quitting the gym because they wernt jay cutler lookalikes benching 220 in a few weeks


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

offo said:


> CON is a natural bodybuilder and he is far from small...... I think they proud of doing it without aid maybe?


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

jjj said:


> i copmpletely agree with shaunMC on this, there are guys in my gym and ive heard them before saying to new members, pointing at anyone with size, 'yeah that guys on gear thats why hes so big' or if someones benching 150+ and someone says wow look at that- people say, yeah but hes a sted-head thats why he can lift that. such a load of bollocks, so much so that i hid the fact i used gear when i started, then people found out and said 'get me some gear so i look like like you',
> 
> and to prove people wrong, i pointed them in the right direction, and loved seeing them 3 months later, no bigger or stronger, quitting the gym because they wernt jay cutler lookalikes benching 220 in a few weeks


well said mate


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## beefcakebaggie (Jul 9, 2008)

jjj said:


> i copmpletely agree with shaunMC on this, there are guys in my gym and ive heard them before saying to new members, pointing at anyone with size, 'yeah that guys on gear thats why hes so big' or if someones benching 150+ and someone says wow look at that- people say, yeah but hes a sted-head thats why he can lift that. such a load of bollocks, so much so that i hid the fact i used gear when i started, then people found out and said 'get me some gear so i look like like you',
> 
> and to prove people wrong, i pointed them in the right direction, and loved seeing them 3 months later, no bigger or stronger, quitting the gym because they wernt jay cutler lookalikes benching 220 in a few weeks


 I do agree there are a lot of people like that - as you say they tend to be the guys who can't get any size as they don't have the intelligence to eat right etc, I don't think of myself as one though (Not now but I'm sure there was a time when we all used to be) & it's unfair to tar us all with the same brush.

Shaun, a question for you - Think back before you ever took anything, I assume you got bitten by the lifting bug & put on some size before you chose to start using. You didn't ever tell anyone that you were natural?


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

I was only typing what i have gathered from older threads and posts!


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

offo said:


> I was only typing what i have gathered from older threads and posts!


you can't bloody read much then offo...lol


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

nah i am sure that i have heard con say he was natural....may i misread but i have always though that..


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

haha theres a thread just been posted which says about the lads his gym which just point at people and say haha sted head, you will get that in evry gym and more often than not the poeple saying that will be poeple who have just joined and think there body will change in days and they dont understand that it all takes a long time to grow true muscle, it also takes a lot of commitment and form.

some of my mates come to the gym who have trained for say 3 years and in those thre eyears they have cheated them selves with there diet cheated on there sets and reps and they ask why i am looking better and stronger than them in just 9 months this is all down to training right and eating right, not down to the fact you take gear. thats how dumb they are to think you can just take sups and get big.... not how it works!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

if i was to do my time again knowing what i know now i would not of used gear when i did, i have competed without steroids and from this i have alot of respect for those that do not use steroids but maintain a physique as it must be hard not to follow the trend in some gyms...

a few guys have said to me in the past i am where i am now because i use steroids claiming what i have acheived is down to the gear this is insulting as the reason i am where i am now is down to knowledge and fukcing hard graft in the gym yes gear has its place but don't be fooled into thinking just because you use gear you will be very muscular and ripped as it really aint that easy well if it is i have been doing it wrong for a very long time


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I think this thread says more about the insecurities of the poster than anything else


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

jjj said:


> i copmpletely agree with shaunMC on this, there are guys in my gym and ive heard them before saying to new members, pointing at anyone with size, 'yeah that guys on gear thats why hes so big' or if someones benching 150+ and someone says wow look at that- people say, yeah but hes a sted-head thats why he can lift that. such a load of bollocks, so much so that i hid the fact i used gear when i started, then people found out and said 'get me some gear so i look like like you',
> 
> and to prove people wrong, i pointed them in the right direction, and loved seeing them 3 months later, no bigger or stronger, quitting the gym because they wernt jay cutler lookalikes benching 220 in a few weeks


Hello jjj

Why did you start AAS? what age?

You have a good physique,however out of curiosity,do you not think you could have achieved this without drugs?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Alex Redford said:


> poeple who have just joined and think there body will change in days and they dont understand that it all takes a long time to grow true muscle, it also takes a lot of commitment and form.
> 
> some of my mates come to the gym who have trained for say 3 years and in those thre eyears they have cheated them selves with there diet cheated on there sets and reps and they ask why i am looking better and stronger than them in just *9 months this is all down to training right and eating right, not down to the fact you take gear. thats how dumb they are to think you can just take sups and get big.... not how it works*!


weird how someone so young and new to the game knows this when there are guys around who have trained for years that don't understand this yet


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## jjj (Jun 1, 2008)

Gym-pig said:


> I think this thread says more about the insecurities of the poster than anything else


....disagree.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Gym-pig said:


> I think this thread says more about the insecurities of the poster than anything else


what are my insecurities then


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Gym-pig said:


> I think this thread says more about the insecurities of the poster than anything else


Calm yourself down sh1te stirring mate.


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## jjj (Jun 1, 2008)

ParaManiac said:


> Hello jjj
> 
> Why did you start AAS? what age?
> 
> You have a good physique,however out of curiosity,do you not think you could have achieved this without drugs?


i started using a year ago, i trained for 2 years natty, was happy with the results, then needed two shoulder ops and got very upset about losing size etc, so i used gear and added it when i thought my diet and training was good enough,

im nowhere near natty potential so sure, i could have done it naturally, but i chose not to and i have no regrets at all, i believe as long as you do it for yourself and not because 'your mates are' or because you just 'wanna look big for summer' then its fine

**age 20 when i did them.


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> weird how someone so young and new to the game knows this when there are guys around who have trained for years that don't understand this yet


Apreciated mate, dont want people to waste time training incorectly so try to let them know its all down to hard graft and dedication.


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> what are my insecurities then


If your not always helping someone than you feel your not needed... :innocent:


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

jjj said:


> i started using a year ago, i trained for 2 years natty, was happy with the results, then needed two shoulder ops and got very upset about losing size etc, so i used gear and added it when i thought my diet and training was good enough,
> 
> im nowhere near natty potential so sure, i could have done it naturally, but i chose not to and i have no regrets at all, i believe as long as you do it for yourself and not because 'your mates are' or because you just 'wanna look big for summer' then its fine
> 
> **age 20 when i did them.


Thankyou, a fair answer and a sensible approach


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Gym-pig said:


> I think this thread says more about the insecurities of the poster than anything else


What i was thinking.


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Five-O said:


> Calm yourself down sh1te stirring mate.


Sorry mate that was not my intention and huge apologises for any offence caused

What I mean is why raise the question ?

Yes Im Natural or yes I take gear - its still a lot of hard work , of which you can be proud

I dont care if someone says they are natural and I dont care whether they use gear - either way their body will have taken a lot of hard work !

So why feel strange when some says they are natural ? I dont when some says they use.

Just seems an odd topic to raise too me


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

From experience, it gets irritating to train unassisted and have chumps out and about call me a "sted-head" or a "juicer" when I've achieved everything I have without those particular supplements. Without getting into a huge argument or anything, I prefer to know I'm natural, but I don't disrepect the people who have made the choice to use performance enhancers in the same way I don't neccessarily look down on people who smoke weed. It's their thing, let 'em get on with it - it's just not for me.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

shaunmc i think you have some serious insecurities yourself.

i really dont see the problem in saying your natural, even if you are declaring it. so what? just because you couldnt achieve something naturally doesnt mean others cant. and jjj for someone who takes gear your not exactly very advanced.


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Why does it bother the OP enough to start a thread?

Dont care whos natty or not, the op as a steroid user cannot take a high horse with natty's thats just laughable imo


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

beefcakebaggie said:


> I do agree there are a lot of people like that - as you say they tend to be the guys who can't get any size as they don't have the intelligence to eat right etc, I don't think of myself as one though (Not now but I'm sure there was a time when we all used to be) & it's unfair to tar us all with the same brush.
> 
> Shaun, a question for you - Think back before you ever took anything, I assume you got bitten by the lifting bug & put on some size before you chose to start using. You didn't ever tell anyone that you were natural?


No cant say i ever did ... i wanted to be a bodybuilder and trained at the gym to achieve it .. the big guys were guys i aspired to be like .. i reached my limit and wanted to get bigger and that process involved taking gear

i never heard anyone say they were natural ... what would be the point your either a bodybuilder or not why add the extra word ... it wouldnt have gained you any brownie points


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

offo said:


> nah i am sure that i have heard con say he was natural....may i misread but i have always though that..


 Yes i am indeed naturaly good looking

I will tell you what the problem is.

People are so concerned with bringing every one else down to their level that if some one uses hormones and look much bigger and better than them they have to slander it off "its all the roids that make him big.

Or the gear taking bb who goes "yeah i am not olympia top ten material BECAUSE i dont have 10000 grand per year to spend on drugs".

Its the exact same thing.

Its the exact same thing as when some jealous non-working alcoholic scum bag slanders some one who has a nice hosue nice car ext with comments like "if i was born with a silver spoon in my mouth" or "we cant all be the lucky".

If you are happy in your self and with how you look (as you should be, why go through life disliking your self:confused1 then you should only have positive things to say and think about other people.......until they get in your face of course then things change:tongue:


----------



## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Gym-pig said:


> Sorry mate that was not my intention and huge apologises for any offence caused
> 
> What I mean is why raise the question ?
> 
> ...


fair do's mate, nice post :thumbup1:


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## adamdutton (May 13, 2008)

i think most decent hard working naturals dont have a problem with people taking gear as they know how much hard work and time and effort they put in to it.

but what i have realised is that people who do a progress record and who are natural dont get as much advice or comments as people who use gear, it seems alot of people who do use only want to know how other people who use gear are doing and dont care about naturals? why is this?

it seems more people who use gear have a problem with naturals rather than the other way around.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

shaun there is such thing as natural bodybuilding you know... i guess you dont recognise this though? you realise bodybuilding didnt start on drugs? when it first came about it was all "natural"


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## adamdutton (May 13, 2008)

natural










not many people assisted or not can come in better condition than this man


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> shaunmc i think you have some serious insecurities yourself.
> 
> i really dont see the problem in saying your natural, even if you are declaring it. so what? just because you couldnt achieve something naturally doesnt mean others cant. and jjj for someone who takes gear your not exactly very advanced.


.... and what would they be ?? let me explain something to you mate as im assuming you aint that bright .... this is a forum that discusses issues to do with bodybuilding .... my intention with this thread was to create a debate and to do that i chooses a topic that people feel strongly about .. if it makes you feel better next time i will post a thread that says "lets all hold hands and say how great it is to train natural or assisted "

problem with that approach is that no fcuker would post where as with this thread it has given you the chance to type away ur views instead of getting your mum to take pics of your underdeveloped but natural back for u to post on a muscle forum

bottom line is mate i couldnt give a toss whether ur natural so put your dummy back in :cursing:


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol exactly what i meant


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> lol exactly what i meant


think u have totally missed the point mate


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## BIG GRANT (Jan 12, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> .... and what would they be ?? let me explain something to you mate as im assuming you aint that bright .... this is a forum that discusses issues to do with bodybuilding .... my intention with this thread was to create a debate and to do that i chooses a topic that people feel strongly about .. if it makes you feel better next time i will post a thread that says "lets all hold hands and say how great it is to train natural or assisted "
> 
> problem with that approach is that no fcuker would post where as with this thread it has given you the chance to type away ur views instead of getting your mum to take pics of your underdeveloped but natural back for u to post on a muscle forum
> 
> bottom line is mate i couldnt give a toss whether ur natural so put your dummy back in :cursing:


 :rockon:


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

I think you have to let people be proud of what they achieve and how they achieve it.

Alot of the arguments sound like you can't be a bodybuilder without taking gear and to declare yourself natural is in someone an excuse as to why your not as big as the guy standing next to you... some people still believe that building your body up is something that is only limited by your natural growth limitations. Some people think their natural growth limitations are just an indicator to start taking gear.

The point is.. if you do something your proud of then shout about it...

When I posted about Natty BB the other week I mentioned Rob Hope... which then followed with posts saying they didn't believe him to be natural... and then a Pro BB and gear user posting up to declare he knew Rob Hope for fact that he was natural. I think Rob Hope as a natural in the face of all the people that accuse him otherwise, has all the right in the world to shout about his natural accomplishments.

Why hasn't he?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

shaun are you a bodybuilder if you have not won anything?


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

Doesn't take long for insults round here does it!


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> shaun are you a bodybuilder if you have not won anything?


 If you have not competed you are not a competitive bodybuilder end of story.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

no i actually want to know. so far we have

natural = not bodybuilder

take gear = bodybuilder

what about if you take gear and havnt accomplished anything in terms of competition does that make you still a bodybuilder or just a wanabe bb?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

BigDom86 said:


> shaun are you a bodybuilder if you have not won anything?


Mate, go stick your head ina blender, I really cannot see what your contributing or trying to put across except a load of b0llocks tbh.

"Mr 8th natural wonder of the world" :whistling:


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

Five-O said:


> "Mr 8th natural wonder of the world" :whistling:


 :lol:

Don this is not about naturals not being bodybuilders its about people needing to state they are natural.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yeah buddy 

i still dont see the problem lol. if you take gear fair enough if you dont fair enough. right now i dont, my cousin does. yes hes a bit bigger


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> no i actually want to know. so far we have
> 
> natural = not bodybuilder
> 
> ...


mate i said we are all bodybuilders i just dont get why guys have to add "natural" to the word....

in answer to your question about competing .. yes i do and yes i have won a few shows ... not sure how that contributes to the debate

seems odd that you accuse me of insecurities ....when the debate was quite productive and general ... you decided to add personal comments towards me ????? odd approach


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> yeah buddy
> 
> i still dont see the problem lol. if you take gear fair enough if you dont fair enough. right now i dont, my cousin does. yes hes a bit bigger


 Just you wait mate until you have been training a few years and have dedicated your life to getting bigger using every thing at your disposal and then having some teenager go "oh thats because of the gear" you wont be happy.


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Depends who they are stating that they are natural too.

If its just the average joe, then to be honest, they are probably stating their natural so its not assumed they havent just taken steroids and got big.

Alot of people think you take steroids and get massive.


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

i think most naturals wouldn't have an issue with telling everyone, sure there are some knobs but its the same with non-naturals and with everything in life


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Con said:


> Just you wait mate until you have been training a few years and have dedicated your life to getting bigger using every thing at your disposal and then having some teenager go "oh thats because of the gear" you wont be happy.


good post mate, to be fair im one of thos dumb teenagers which would say that sort of thing like yeh his on ggear , yeh hes natral and so on but this thread has totaly changed my opinion on it, much apreciated.


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## jjj (Jun 1, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> shaunmc i think you have some serious insecurities yourself.
> 
> i really dont see the problem in saying your natural, even if you are declaring it. so what? just because you couldnt achieve something naturally doesnt mean others cant. *and jjj for someone who takes gear your not exactly very advanced*.


and where do i once say i think im advanced???? if you actually read my posts you will see i said i know im not beyond my naturall limit yet, however *i chose for my reasons* to take AAS, whats wrong with that? its up to me what i do and in doing so i dont think im 'advanced' at all.

ive said it before and i'll say it again, if you think steroids are only for advanced people or people who compete then thats fine, but thats like saying nobody should get a fast motorbike like an R1, unless they want to proplerly race bikes???

i decided to take them. no peer pressure, no insecurities, i just wanted to. simple as that.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Alex Redford said:


> good post mate, to be fair im one of thos dumb teenagers which would say that sort of thing like yeh his on ggear , yeh hes natral and so on but this thread has totaly changed my opinion on it, much apreciated.


well said mate .... there u go DOM this thread has been educational ... i learnt your a [email protected] anyway....... lol


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> well said mate .... there u go DOM this thread has been educational ... i learnt your a [email protected] anyway....... lol


Haha owned! could just do with getting this message out to a few more people! hopefully we can keep this thread alive and people will become a little more educated and maybe pull there finger out.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

coool cool. i just have strong opinions that is all. and forums dont bother me, i like debates and discussions. i still dont think there is anything wrong with someone saying they are natural though. and there is nothing wrong with someone saying they take gear. and just so you know im not one of them guys who points the finger at people and say he takes steroids as i get it all the time aswell (eventhough i am in no way developed at all musclewise) and i know how it feels as people look at you thinking gear is what makes the man. i only get this when i go to my uni gym though, never when im back in london at my bb gym.


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## guinness (Jul 14, 2008)

I have read the recent threads regarding naturals supposedly attempting to gain the moral high ground, or simply state the point or whatever other way it is taken. I have no issues with it as I think we have a variety of opinions, attitudes and aspirations here which is what makes this site so great.

The one thing I will take exception to though Shaun (as a natural) is saying that assissted BBers train at a whole other level of committment and pain threshold. Its all relative Shaun...the guy who is lifting more weight, grunting louder and sweating more is not necessarily working harder, for longer or smarter than the 100lb girl on the threadmill who is busting her **s to break her 10k pb time. Gear will allow you to lift more and recover better and it helps you get bigger and leaner. It doesn't give you a better work ethic, make you smarter, make you more of a man and it shouldn't make you look down on those who work equally hard naturally but dont reap the same results in the same timeframe.

I have seen the Coleman's training vids and they are truly inspirational but quite hoestly I have seen the intensity matched by by wife when training for her Ironman...and to be clear she is not on gear. Just intense dedication training and incredible attention to detail on her diet.


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

Good post Guinness


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Got really annoyed by this thread.

In the publics eyes.

" You take steroids, get massive, its only water though and not muscle, your fat, you get heart problems, smaller dck etc"

Theres somebody in my gym who has been taking steroids for a year. I wouldnt say he looks any better then my mate who is 16 and could probably enter an u18s competion.

There is obvious differences between the ones who just take steroids and the ones who take the steroids and eat the right food.

Alot of people state theyre natural to avoid alot of the above reasons i first stated. I wonder how many times you have heard.

Ooooo wont your dck get smaller or oweee your goign to have heart attack.

Ahhh right you took steroids and got massive. Iiiii see.

Some people are tryign to get a point accross and cant really explain it propper.

I think some are saying.

If X person trained and didnt eat propperly etc, then A person who took steroids but didnt eat propperly etc. A person would probably make more gains then X person.


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## NB89 (Aug 1, 2006)

lol at this thread now, it started off casual I go out, come back and its this...

To be honest, who cares if people are natural or juiced and choose whether to declare it or not. A persons size and strength says it all, and if it annoys you take it on the chin and use it as motivation to train harder. Its similar to the idiots who don't have a clue and ask you if you use steds just because they haven't got a clue. Just use it as motivation...Then you will see more gains, natural or not!


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## Marsbar (Nov 10, 2007)

great thread .. have to agree with shaun though .. I've noticed this on a few boards that some naturals have to state all the time that they are natural .. so fcukin what ..I do feel that a lot of naturals use it as a crutch when they tell people they are a bodybuilder when they barely look like they work out. They feel by saying they are natural makes up for their lack of development ''cos you can't get really big without gear''! I used gear when I was younger then came off for ten years ..still trained my **** off .. then decided to start gear again 3 years ago as I felt I'd gone as far as I could naturally. Of course I'm generalising here and there are some cracking natural bb'ers ie. Hope, merrifield etc.

I've also learnt there are some proper tools on this board as well. For the poster who said bb'ing was 'natural' when it started .. that's funny cos bb'ers have been using gear since the 50's right around the time bb'ing took off.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

> For the poster who said bb'ing was 'natural' when it started .. that's funny cos bb'ers have been using gear since the 50's right around the time bb'ing took off.


bb is just a word. i meant general weight lifting to look bigger and better...


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

Dom just out of curiosity why do you call yourself the '8th natural wonder of the world?'


'Seven Wonders of the Natural World. This is a list of important places and things that are wonders today and are still around right now. They became wonders when world travelers going around the world discovered them and thought they were really special.'


 

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 width=98%" border=1>[TR][TD] Mount Everest​
<TD vAlign=top align=middle width=25%">The Matterhorn[/TD]<TD vAlign=top align=middle width=25%"> The Meteor Crater[/TD]<TD vAlign=top align=middle width=25%">Victoria Falls [/TD]​
[TR]<TD vAlign=top align=middle width=25%">Ayers Rock[/TD]<TD vAlign=top align=middle width=25%">The Grand Canyon[/TD][TD]

The Great Barrier Reef​[/TD][/TR]​​[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]​


Do you see yourself on the same lines as the above............it's none of my business I know jus askin mucka



Lin
​
</LAYER>


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## Marsbar (Nov 10, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> bb is just a word. i meant general weight lifting to look bigger and better...


Bodybuilding is a word used to describe someone who lifts weights to look bigger and better is it not?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

excellent post guinness....

right let me first do my MOD duties...

Shaun please do not criticise a members avatar please appreciate what all members have done to achieve the physique they have....

Dom do not insult other members development and appreciate that they have chosen a path just as you have....

any more personal insults they member will be banned for 7 days....

i and many other are getting a little tired to see that instead of healthy debate some like to draw it into insults.......this is a discussion forum i believe Shaun's intentions where to create a healthy debate....

We are all here for the same thing to increase knowledge to progress in the sport/hobby how an individual does this is entirely up to that individual as i have said many times natural or not the guys who are serious train and diet with 100% focus.......

the sad thing is that i have more respect for naturals than many have for me mainly because they just cannot get over the drug side of things shame really.....



cellaratt said:


> If your not always helping someone than you feel your not needed... :innocent:


there may be a little truth in that mate


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

because i am  well in my own mind i think i am. and i do weight lifting for myself and im happy with what ive achieved so far, well more than happy going from 11 stone to 16 stone in 4 years. doesnt really bother me what others say because at the end of the day all you have is your own views


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> excellent post guinness....
> 
> right let me first do my MOD duties...
> 
> ...


Amen


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

agree. sorry


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> excellent post guinness....
> 
> right let me first do my MOD duties...
> 
> ...


SORRY DAD !!!! lol

actually i was thinking same thing ... it made me laugh that most of the debates involving men end up as slanging matches

why dont the women do the same ... i would love to read a thread where Lin, Miss BC , Gymbabe , Fitbit, Beklet, Greekgoddess and Cardio Sux were all slagging each other off ... cant see it tho


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## Haimer (Sep 1, 2008)

I personally think it's because, as mentioned, when you say you are a bodybuilder people often associated it with steroids. Though I'm just a beginner, if I just mention bodybuilding then there always is a comment regarding steroids. So I think the natural Bodybuilder just wants it to be known he is assisted.

However, I also think that some believe they've worked harder than "assisted" bodybuilders. And I agree it's like a way to boost their ego to say they're a natural and have worked harder by being un-assisted. But I don't agree with this, I think both assisted & assisted bodybuilders work extremely hard.


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> SORRY DAD !!!! lol
> 
> actually i was thinking same thing ... it made me laugh that most of the debates involving men end up as slanging matches
> 
> why dont the women do the same ... i would love to read a thread where Lin, Miss BC , Gymbabe , Fitbit, Beklet, Greekgoddess and Cardio Sux were all slagging each other off ... cant see it tho


HA go for it mate set em up with a rant.

Off to bed hope you dont mind the add could maybe do with some advice off you,

Keep it real all!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

lol....

the fact that people get so fired up means there is a potential for a good debate....


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> SORRY DAD !!!! lol
> 
> why dont the women do the same ... i would love to read a thread where Lin, Miss BC , Gymbabe , Fitbit, Beklet, Greekgoddess and Cardio Sux were all slagging each other off ... cant see it tho


IMO we dont care who enhances their trainin, just the way (some) women are.............but if we did it'd be in a mud pit :laugh::laugh:


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Haimer said:


> I personally think it's because, as mentioned, when you say you are a bodybuilder people often associated it with steroids. Though I'm just a beginner, if I just mention bodybuilding then there always is a comment regarding steroids. So I think the natural Bodybuilder just wants it to be known he is assisted.
> 
> However, I also think that some believe they've worked harder than "assisted" bodybuilders. And I agree it's like a way to boost their ego to say they're a natural and have worked harder by being un-assisted. But I don't agree with this, I think both assisted & assisted bodybuilders work extremely hard.


its simple matey, if you put the training in and are dedicated then your going to get the results you want.


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## genesis (Jul 4, 2006)

Ive not got a huge amount to add this thread so i thought i'd throw somepics up of naturals, not that i have 1st class guaranteed proof they are natural, but people who say they are on the boards etc...

Layne Norton










Rob Hope










Fivos Averkiou


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Lin said:


> IMO we dont care who enhances their trainin, just the way (some) women are.............but if we did it'd be in a mud pit :laugh::laugh:


why did u stop there ..... ????


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

what about jim cordova?


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> what about jim cordova?


na dont think it would be as good with him ... i say just stick to the chics i said LIn, Fitbit, Miss BC etc ........


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## Haimer (Sep 1, 2008)

Alex Redford said:


> its simple matey, if you put the training in and are dedicated then your going to get the results you want.


Exactly. Whether you're assisted or not it still takes a lot of dedication. The training & the diet take up a lot of time & effort & in my opinion both assisted and non-assisted bodybuilders are so dedicated and work extremely hard.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

sorry im a bit dumb didnt understand. im saying jim cordova competes naturally, hes big


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> na dont think it would be as good with him ... i say just stick to the chics i said LIn, Fitbit, Miss BC etc ........


 PMSL!!!!!

This is such a good thread because it brings up good discussion it is a pity threads like this always take an ugly turn.

It doesnt make them any better in my opinion that they dont use any thing but i have to say people like Layne have a superb physique and i REALLY admire them for the hard work it takes to get into that condition which is the true test of being a bodybuilder.


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## genesis (Jul 4, 2006)

Jim Cordova


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> .. ever noticed how natural bodybuilders always announce themselves as naturals where as the rest of us just say we are bodybuilders
> 
> why is this????? i always feel they are trying to gain some moral higher ground to make up for the fact that they are mainly pretty small
> 
> ...


Why do you feel upset that someone has achieved what they have without the use of exogenous hormones?

Why do you feel that because someone chooses to see what they can achieve without the use of exogenous hormones that they "don't want it enough"? Are you suggesting that unless you use steroids you have no dedication?

Why do you feel that a natural trainer/powerlifter/bodybuilder is taking the moral high ground? Do you feel that the use of anabolic steroids is a moral issue? Do you have some deep routed sense of regret that perhaps you could have acheived more without the use of anabolic steroids?

Perhaps the natural bodybuilders are proud of what they have acheived. Do you have an issue with people being proud of acheivments? Do you feel as though you need to acheive something? Do you feel as though you ought to acheive more? Do you feel that you can only make acheivements with the use of anabolic steroids? Do you wish that you could make acheivements without the use of anabolic steroids?

Is the real issue here some kind of deep routed insecurity? As a child did you live with a man called Geppetto and were you teased about not being a real boy? :whistling:

Or are you just having a bad day and getting irked at daft young lads with daft titles in their use profiles? :thumb:

I can never understand the natty / non-natty divide personally.


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## Patch (May 30, 2007)

Naturals state they are natural for 3 reasons AFAIC!

1) To stop people asking if they take gear etc

and

2) Because they are happy with the size they have through no use of gear.

or

3) They dont like those who use steroids, or are nervous about them.

In all honesty though, i personally couldnt give a **** if anyone uses steroids or not...if they have a good physique, thats all that matters IMO.


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Personally I dont mind saying i compete naturally as i do.From what Ive seen people who compete naturally get stick..skinny this etc etc and people on gear get stick he's only on gear thats why he is big.Fact is its a sport split in 2 each has a choice and one aint any better than the other just different id rather look like rob hob than anyone in the olympia but if I could like darrem charles or shawn ray or kevin levrone or flex wheeler then Id take take over hope.The heading is wrong not all naturals fell they have to say their naturals or their better.Same as can be said as in why if you are bigger do people assume you are better eg look at his arms he must be a bodybuilder but he has 21inch legs.Ive posted my pics and extremly happy with what ive achieved and what i will achieve in the future.Big dom maybe i may see you on stage.patch+th&s agree but at the same time you cant preach you are natural so you train harder and better thats ps as ive trained with people whove told me their on substances and it was no big issue actually it was a poo session.Strong is strong no matter big is big no matter.I state im natural if people ask me what i compete.if i did nabba shows then id say i do nabba shows plus with my clothes on im not the biggest .

Agree with you con agree disagree its only a sport that doesnt need to get personal.

golden man loving it ukbbf then npa then possibly ukbbf


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

If there was too people stood next to eachother.

Exactly the same genetics, weight, height etc.

1 was natural and one was a steroid user.

They both looked exactly the same.

Would it be fair to say that the person who is natural, faced a harder time getting to the physique that the steroid user did ?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Look its simple

men=superior to women

AAS users = far superior to naturals

END OF


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

I see it as a Rugby type thing. You have League and Union. Both Rugby, with some similarities but essentially completely different competitions at the top level.


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## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

i don't give a flyin fook if you use or not.

as for women bber's i take my hat off to all of them newbie to pro its hard fooking work! but once you've been hit with the bug you just don't give in.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> once you've been hit with the bug you just don't give in.


Tis like a box of pringles 'once you pop, you jus can't stop'


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

i think its because its a major accomplishment to be in good shape and natural


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

nathanlowe said:


> If there was too people stood next to eachother.
> 
> Exactly the same genetics, weight, height etc.
> 
> ...


I don't thnk so no (assuming they both look good)

Yes the natty trained hard, but if the user didn't train hard as well then he would look like ****e.

A user training at the same intensity as a natty doesn't neccessarily mean the user will gain more... I think you have to hit certain "power bands" if ya like.

My R1 is fast as fook.. but is only REALLY powerful when gassed in the power band. Unitl you reach your power band lesser engine size bikes could probably hang with it.


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## fozyspilgrims (Oct 22, 2007)

Because they want people to know that what they have they have worked hard for and not taken drugs.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> bb is just a word. i meant general weight lifting to look bigger and better...


oh so you meant weightlifting well this is just a word aswell.....but i do understand what you mean though as you are not a bodybuilder until you compete in my eyes.........light the fuse and stand back 



jw007 said:


> Look its simple
> 
> men=superior to women
> 
> ...


in one foul swoop the evil man comes in and stirs the debate 



bizzlewood said:


> i think its because its a major accomplishment to be in good shape and natural


yet again a statement that assumes to look good all you need to do is use steroids....it is a major accomplishment to look good no matter if you are a user or not if it was really that easy then every single person who has used steroids would look the b0llox and we all know that is not the case.....


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

Which is fine.. but the discussion is more about the need to say it and look down on those who use..

Gear doesn't make you big unless you have the training/life style ethics to maximise the effect of the gear. In my opinion.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Liam said:


> Well if someone who is natural gets to a good size and condition I see nothing wrong with them being proud of the fact they did it unassissted. *meaning they had to more effort into diet and training (I'm not saying users don't put effort in to these, just that if your natural and do well you have to be very strict/consistent*)


STUPID

STUPID

STUPID

STUPID

COMMENT

I'd have thought that after being here so long that you would have more knowledge than this.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Floyde said:


> Which is fine.. but the discussion is more about the need to say it and look down on those who use..
> 
> Gear doesn't make you big unless you have the training/life style ethics to maximise the effect of the gear. In my opinion.


i agree in a way, Gear will make you big no matter the training or diet but if you want quality muscle then training and diet in my opinion is more important


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

JW07 its not so simple not everyone deems bigger as better.If 2 athletes are stoodnext to each other ripped symmetrical nice shape small waist wide shoulders back etc I prefer and thick its better than a short blocky chunky mass mess different strokes for different folks.A natural competitor carries as much as stigma as assisted.Ive been at a gym where certain people felt the need to tell me that I wont be s!it if I dont take gear yet he was just a fat mess and Ive had people on gear tell me gears bad blah blah my choice.How many people on this board can say theyve never made comments bit derogatory(spell check) regards naturals and the same wit myself (ive spouted about cutler in the past).

The general public assume that you can only be a bodybuilder if your huge and supposedly on growth etc.When Isay im a bodybuilder I get looks then I have to explain naturally :confused1: :whistling: then I have to show them if there's doubt.Hence why some people might spout on about that their natural eg con big dude is more likely to look the part than me in clothesand nobody would second guess he is a bodybuilder more that likely say "he's only that way due to gear":whistling: wrong.For me unless people are 2nd and 3rd guessing me then I have no reason to say I take gear just lift heavy ass weight yeah buddy! well I try.


----------



## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> oh so you meant weightlifting well this is just a word aswell.....but i do understand what you mean though as you are not a bodybuilder until you compete in my eyes.........light the fuse and stand back
> 
> in one foul swoop the evil man comes in and stirs the debate
> 
> yet again a statement that assumes to look good all you need to do is use steroids....it is a major accomplishment to look good no matter if you are a user or not if it was really that easy then every single person who has used steroids would look the b0llox and we all know that is not the case.....


Too many poeple seem to think that you can just use gear and you will get huge! haha not the case! hard work and dedication is what it takes. the sooner poeple get that into there heads maybe they will change their views on the whole subject.


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## guinness (Jul 14, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> i don't give a flyin fook if you use or not.


thats probably part of the issue here.

Picture two guys talking to a pretty girl. Both guys train equally hard and are equally disciplined with their diet. Only difference is one uses gear and the other doesn't. They are good mates and train together all the time. The girl doesnt know who uses and who doesnt, and probably doesnt care. She just sees one guy who is bigger and more ripped than the other.

The bigger guy will try to sweep the issue under the carpet and take it off the agenda thereby infering that it is his superior dedication and genetics that have him looking better than the other guy.

In response the smaller guy will try to put gear back on the agenda to make it clear that he is every bit as dedicated and focused but he has chosen not to take gear for personal reasons. That his apparent lesser condition is not a reflection of his resolve.

The girl then makes her choice depending on which set of values appeal to her most.

The actions of both guys make perfect sense to me and there is no right or wrong here. Thats why we will probably always have smaller equally dedicated guys drawing attention to the fact that they are natural and bigger equally dedicated guys not understanding why they keep making such an issue of it all the time.

Its all about who gets the girl.


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

On the money again Guinness, I reckon.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

The only people that 'should' say they are natural are people who compete on the natural stage.

All others who say it are just ashamed of their progress IMO.

I dont care if people use gear or not. BUt I so have issues with people who say they are natural and so thats why they arent very big.

Oh really? Nothing to do with your sh*t diet or crap training or endless nights out on coke and beer then?

I know thats a generalisation but I'd challenge any of the so called 'natural' bbers on here that make a song and dance about being natural to say that they are 100% spot on with their diet and training and dont touch drink or drugs recreationally.

Cos if you were 100% then you'd look good - simple.

What you put in you get out.

So stop p*ssing and moaning about how steroid users are bigger than you cos they take gear and fix your own training and diet.

This isnt aimed at all the excellent members here who dont take gear but train well and have discipline because they dont have the need to announce they are natural because they look good and are confident in their own self. No its aimed at all the guys who look joe average who feel the need to excuse their lack of progress with a 'well I dont take drugs so thats why I look crap' statement.

Unfortunately its always the minority of idiots who are crying like babies that spoil it for the rest of the hard training natural guys.

I trained for 4 years natural and in all that time I never resented any steroid user at all for how big they were, I respected the hard work and comittment they had to their training. I had many friends who were steroid users when I was 17 and they all advised me to wait for years before I ever did anything and they showed me how to train properly.

I also got the finger pointed at me when I was natural and only if asked did I ever say 'no I havent used anything' and I was proud of my development naturally but I didnt ever feel the need to beat my chest about it.


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> The only people that 'should' say they are natural are people who compete on the natural stage.
> 
> All others who say it are just ashamed of their progress IMO.
> 
> ...


im in the same boat you where in when you where 17... so im most deffinatly going to keep developing with only a strict diet and hard training and then think about what road i want to go down. good post man.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

I have to say... who gives a monkeys if you're natty or not!! its a personal choice so keep it just that... personal!!

I guess its the same as a gay guy having to advertise to the world that he's gay..


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Alex

Build a foundation of training and diet now and if you do ever decide to use gear you will progress 10 times faster.

Theres a lot of good info on this site to help you.


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> The only people that 'should' say they are natural are people who compete on the natural stage. FACT AGREE COMPLETLY THATS THE ONLY TIME I SAY IT
> 
> All others who say it are just ashamed of their progress IMO.
> 
> ...


 YOUR FINAL STATEMENT MADE ME LAUGH AS IVE HEARD IT BEFORE EVEN MY OWN PARENTS THINK IM GEAR OR HAVE BEEN.NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT AFTER 7-9YEARS I KNOW HOW MY BODY WORKS WHAT SUITS ME DIET WISE AND IF I DONT GET MASSIVE SO WHAT I CAN ALWAYS MAKE OTHER ADJUSTMENTS.

I THINK ITS A SHAME THAT EVEN WITHIN THE SPORT THERE IS SO LITTLE UNDERSTANDING AND RESPECT AND MY FAVOURITE WORDS STUPID ASSUMPTIONS


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## Ironhorse (Mar 21, 2008)

Hey hey hey, lets just remember at the end of the day were all after the same thing we shouldnt care whether some of us use steroids or not, however we go about it we should be supporting eachother.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

maybe 100% was a little high lol.

But you get the drift.

Funnily my parents have never asked me about gear, maybe cos they dont want to hear the asnwer lol.


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Ironhorse said:


> Hey hey hey, lets just remember at the end of the day were all after the same thing we shouldnt care whether some of us use steroids or not, however we go about it we should be supporting eachother.


 YOU FORGOT TO ADD BECAUSE ITS SUCH A SMALL SPORT MORE A HOBBY AND OR A WAY OF LIFE.Enjoy it learn etc


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

i agree with shaun mc most naturals who feel the need to state there naturalness are just doing so because they are ashamed that they are not bigger.... bodybuilding is about being bigger at the end of the day. nine out of ten none competitive naturals would not even pass for bodybuilders in day to day clothing. fact. in fact a fair few competitive naturals wouldn't....

i use gear because i want to be big, and i dont want to spend my life wishing i was .


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

PompyMan said:


> i agree with shaun mc most naturals who feel the need to state there naturalness are just doing so because they are ashamed that they are not bigger.... bodybuilding is about being bigger at the end of the day. nine out of ten none competitive naturals would not even pass for bodybuilders in day to day clothing. fact. in fact a fair few competitive naturals wouldn't....
> 
> i use gear because i want to be big, and i dont want to spend my life wishing i was .


Please can you name that 9 who wouldn't pass and then 10th who would? Thanks


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

TH&S said:


> Please can you name that 9 who wouldn't pass and then 10th who would? Thanks


Would - JW007, Con

Wouldnt - TH&S


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Tinytom said:


> Would - JW007, Con
> 
> Wouldnt - TH&S


That's not what your MOM said....


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

jw007 said:


> Look its simple
> 
> men=superior to women
> 
> ...


Hmmmm in light of previous posts on this thread, and taking all info on board, intelligently rationalising it, I feel i should perhaps modify my statement

MEN= FAR FAR superior to women

AAS users = FAR FAR FAR superior to naturals

AAS ABUSERS = FAR FAR FAR superior to naturals and aas users and also far far more cleverer

SHERIFF JW007 = Tough and hansome end everybody loves him (also far gayer and far superior than anyone)


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

:laugh: :lol:


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

JW007 LOL LOL LOL

AS I SAID STUPID ASSUMPTIONS NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE.YES IVE SAID THAT CLOTHES ON I DONT LOOK LIKE A BODYBUILDER BUT MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK THAT YOU ARE ONLY A BODYBUILDER IF YOUR MASSIVE.iVE SEEN PAUL GEORGE A PRO IN CLOTHES DOESNT LOOK HUGE NORMAL TO ME.THE FOCUS SHOULDNT BE AM I BIG OR NOT IT SHOULD BE IF IM GOOD ENOUGH...PAUL GEORGE AINT MASSIVE SHAUN T AINT MASSIVE BUT QUALITY.THE GAME IS TO BUILD A BETTER BODY IF YOU DEEM IT SIZE SO BE IT IF ITS SIZE SHAPE FLOWS SYMETRICAL AND CONDITIONED SO BE IT.GEAR OR NOT WHO CARES YOU MAKE THE CHOICE.Pompyman ive seen and know people who are on gear yeah with their clothes massive with tops on well the word abs ,delts, quads are foreign to them but big arms and chests make up their bodys.Hopefully pompy gear gives you the success you want but it aint a guarantee,especially if you aint got a clue regards diet and usage etc(nt saying you dont have a clue)


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

Some might say that people that aren't Bodybuilders are Health and Fitness/Physique Pro's?

Isn't what everyone is talking about the reason why there are Health and Fitness shows, Physique shows as well as the Mr Universe's, Olympia etc..

I dunno.. just wondering.

Its like Linford Christie wasn't a runner, he was a sprinter, Paula Radcliffe is a runner, not a sprinter. Basis of the sport is very much the same but their respective areas are totally different.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

TH&S said:


> That's not what your MOM said....


TBH I expected more in the way of intelligent retort.

Thats something that I'd expect Robsta/Robdog to say.

I'm disappointed in the level of insultage from you.

:nono:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Tinytom said:


> TBH I expected more in the way of intelligent retort.
> 
> Thats something that I'd expect Robsta/Robdog to say.
> 
> ...


I was suprised to, very very low level, way below mediocre insult that:confused1:

TT do you think TH&S has been hanging around with.........dare i say it.....Those NATURALS (urghh the word makes my skin crawl) again??


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

:laugh:



Tinytom said:


> TBH I expected more in the way of intelligent retort.
> 
> Thats something that I'd expect Robsta/Robdog to say.
> 
> ...


this highlights another important issue ... naturals aint big or funny :laugh:


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

AH mybe th+s needs to be ASSISTED with his insults as he is a nice personal so it doesnt come NATURALLY. LOL

Come on th+s fire back with natural and ay it loud and proud :thumb:  :laugh::laugh:


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

TH&S said:


> Please can you name that 9 who wouldn't pass and then 10th who would? Thanks


no i cant! sorry, but i am only talking from personal experience and i do not know any of the top naturals so maybe i will backtrack on that comment a bit..


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

ShaunMc said:


> :laugh:
> 
> this highlights another important issue ... naturals aint big or funny :laugh:


now thats humour...

:thumbup1:


----------



## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> Alex
> 
> Build a foundation of training and diet now and if you do ever decide to use gear you will progress 10 times faster.
> 
> Theres a lot of good info on this site to help you.


 cheers tom, thats what i wanted to do anyway just wouldnt do it until i knew how to do it properly and how to take it.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

jjj said:


> i started using a year ago, i trained for 2 years natty, was happy with the results, then needed two shoulder ops and got very upset about losing size etc, so i used gear and added it when i thought my diet and training was good enough,
> 
> im nowhere near natty potential so sure, i could have done it naturally, but i chose not to and i have no regrets at all, i believe as long as you do it for yourself and not because 'your mates are' or because you just 'wanna look big for summer' then its fine
> 
> **age 20 when i did them.


F*cking good post mate! It was YOUR choice and youre happy, F*ck em


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

jw007 said:


> I was suprised to, very very low level, way below mediocre insult that:confused1:
> 
> TT do you think TH&S has been hanging around with.........dare i say it.....Those NATURALS (urghh the word makes my skin crawl) again??





ShaunMc said:


> :laugh:
> 
> this highlights another important issue ... naturals aint big or funny :laugh:





Golden Man said:


> AH mybe th+s needs to be ASSISTED with his insults as he is a nice personal so it doesnt come NATURALLY. LOL
> 
> Come on th+s fire back with natural and ay it loud and proud :thumb:  :laugh::laugh:


I would have to say that TH&S as a natural is neither Big nor Funny nor Clever from his responses.

I also think he may be gay but not in the leagues of JW007 more like a gay that needs to 'tell' everyone he is a gay and mince around making daisy chains and squealing in a high pitched voice callin everyone darling so everyone (including girls) knows that he is gay and so there is definate anal cavage on his person.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

LOL @ all the topics between natural building and roid building.

I think to a point some times people dont believe that some people can do it without chemical enchancing drugs....

Like yesterday some one asked me if i was taking steriods because ive put on alot of bulk recently and i said no, just eating a lot of training properly now and naturally getting there.

I guess its nice to feel we doing it without assistance... TILL a point when you need the assistance to get that FREAKY look


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

GSleigh said:


> LOL @ all the topics between natural building and roid building.
> 
> I think to a point some times people dont believe that some people can do it without chemical enchancing drugs....
> 
> ...


Yeah right WHAT EVER!!

I say exactly the same too:whistling:


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

people used to ask me if i had started roids... was 50+ inch chest then... i think i peaked around 52 inch with a 34 waist...

i used to get it all the time...


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

jw007 you would be suprised how many people get asked if they take gear or not. as use is increasing any sign of muscle people think your on something lol. when i was boxing i was 11 stone at just under 6ft at that time ripped as hell, wasnt big in anyway but people assumed i was on something as i was so ripped :S its a strange world we live in these days


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

My comment wasn't aiming at 'proper bodybuilders'. Obviously people who take the sport seriously all train very hard and put alot of effort, natural or not.

Its the other people who user gear without a proper diet and still achieve great size and strength gains that I was aiming at. People I see in the gym regularly who I know don't eat nearly as well as me, who I know go out drinking often yet they still grow faster and lift heavier.

Maybe its my insecurity that makes me think 'they're on steroids' but meh it makes me feel better  .

I think anyone who is natural and trying hard at bodybuilding has the right to tell people.

Just like anyone who is not-natural has the right to keep it from people.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Liam said:


> My comment wasn't aiming at 'proper bodybuilders'. Obviously people who take the sport seriously all train very hard and put alot of effort, natural or not.
> 
> Its the other people who user gear without a proper diet and still achieve great size and strength gains that I was aiming at. People I see in the gym regularly who I know don't eat nearly as well as me, who I know go out drinking often yet they still grow faster and lift heavier.


Jealousy, Insecurity about yourself. How do you know they dont eat a proper iet do you live with them. Is your diet absolutely spot on.

You have been training/bodybuilding a year how long have they been training to achieve their goals?

Is your training all it could be? After 1 year I doubt it very much unless you have trained with a competitive bber a few times or had instruction from suchlike.



Liam said:


> Maybe its my insecurity that makes me think 'they're on steroids' but meh it makes me feel better  .


bingo



Liam said:


> I think anyone who is natural and trying hard at bodybuilding has the right to tell people.
> 
> Just like anyone who is not-natural has the right to keep it from people.


Why add in the word 'natural' to any conversation unless you are using it as an excuse for your own lack of progress.

'Tell' people, so do you talk about these other big guys with derision and say that they lift that heavy because they are on gear? But you are natural so thats why you cant improve?


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Gym-pig said:


> I mention on forums when asked that Im natural . I dont use it as a badge of honour or to gain higher moral ground just so that others can judge the advice I am giving or the questions I am asking .
> 
> An excuse for smaller muscles ?? Do me a favour ! BB is a hobby based on personal development . I could give a toss about anyone elses shape .
> 
> ...


Best post I've seen to press, only on page 2 though, reps man


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

I've yet to see a bottle of Sust move the bar from the rack.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> jw007 you would be suprised how many people get asked if they take gear or not. as use is increasing any sign of muscle people think your on something lol. when i was boxing i was 11 stone at just under 6ft at that time ripped as hell, wasnt big in anyway but people assumed i was on something as i was so ripped :S its a strange world we live in these days


I NEVER get asked EVER!!!!

Im sooooo freakin awesome i just get accused point blank.

In the words of the borg "denial is futile":lol: :lol:


----------



## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

jw007 said:


> I NEVER get asked EVER!!!!
> 
> Im sooooo freakin awesome i just get accused point blank.
> 
> In the words of the *borg* "denial is futile":lol: :lol:


bjorn borg?

i fink you mean resistance etc etc...

sorry, ill fark off n mind my own business...

:whistling:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

jw007 said:


> I NEVER get asked EVER!!!!
> 
> Im sooooo freakin awesome i just get accused point blank.
> 
> In the words of the borg "denial is futile":lol: :lol:


JW007 - don't you want around with a utility belt so you are never without your shot of Sust?










And I swear you had this t-shirt on (albeit briefly...) when we were down Hampstead Heath:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TH&S said:


> JW007 - *don't you want around with a utility belt so you are never without your shot of Sust?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have one already, its yellow and goes around my blue lycra suit.

Goes well with my red cape


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> Would - JW007, Con


I am not sure how much i like being grouped with JW007:confused1: :lol:

TBH i am rather suprised at many comments from people who have been on this board for quite a while i would have thought they learnt at least some thing during their time here:rolleyes:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Con said:


> I am not sure how much i like being *groped* with JW007:confused1: :lol:
> 
> TBH i am rather suprised at many comments from people who have been on this board for quite a while i would have thought they learnt at least some thing during their time here:rolleyes:


Fckin pervert


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

Con=700mg gear

JWOO7= 7000MG

Obvious conclusion Con= 10X more natural than JWOO7 thus Con= 10000X more impressive than JWOO7


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## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

The problem with threads like this is it becomes a "them and us" arguement where people can't reply without feeling they have to defend themselves/friends, which soon clouds the usefullness of the original topic.

I have no desire to tell any body anything unless they ask me or if I really think I can help.

I just have an opinion based on what I read and what I think is common sense (to me)


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Con said:


> Con=700mg gear
> 
> JWOO7= 7000MG
> 
> Obvious conclusion Con= 10X more natural than JWOO7 thus Con= 10000X more impressive than JWOO7


*JWOO7*= 7000MG "FICTIONAL"

Con= Irish (sort of) low level grasp of english language, Ugg ugg and grunts a lot

JW007 = English, understands most words and phrases and can colour by numbers


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## mr-motivator (Sep 11, 2008)

I personally think that natural or un natural you can only work so hard in and out of the gym. Whether on steds or not anyone who is that dedicated should get the respect they deserve from everyone in the bodybuilding community.


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## Haimer (Sep 1, 2008)

I've never actually trained with somebody on gear, atleast not to my knowledge. But when I change gyms I will come across assisted bodybuilders and I am quite looking forward to see them training.

I personally wouldn't attempt to "boast" about being a natural because not only is it not needed (unless someone asks do you use gear) but also 1 day you may find yourself actually using gear, in which case you've preached/boasted about being natural and then turn into a bit of a hypocrite.


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## dru0111 (Aug 28, 2007)

This is a long thread, so appologies firstly for my spelling and secondly if this has been covered. Why do people using gear have an issue with a natural trainer saying they are natural? I understand if the natural trainer is small and thinks he needs to mention it as an excuse for not being bigger! But for dedicated serious natural trainers I think it could be stated to gain slightly more respect (which is possibly due). Just my opinion, I hope this doesn't trigger any roid rage:tongue:


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

dru0111 said:


> This is a long thread, so appologies firstly for my spelling and secondly if this has been covered. Why do people using gear have an issue with a natural trainer saying they are natural? I understand if the natural trainer is small and thinks he needs to mention it as an excuse for not being bigger! But for dedicated serious natural trainers I think it could be stated to gain slightly more respect (which is possibly due). Just my opinion, I hope this doesn't trigger any roid rage:tongue:


Your 13 pages into it bro...I think it's been covered... :whistling:


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## dru0111 (Aug 28, 2007)

cellaratt said:


> Your 13 pages into it bro...I think it's been covered... :whistling:


Lol, thanks pal. Ill just read through it all.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

im gona get a new pic up  show you what us "small" naturals can do, and at 21 years old  wont be until i go back home tho so couple of weeks but it will be there


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

To be fair mate we already have the pic of andrew merrifield so we've seen what naturals can do!!

Check out page 6...


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

im bigger  no way i could ever get that conditioned though!! damn.


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

You may be bigger but he probably has more lean mass as a ratio of bodyweight


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

very true. been looking at some of his pics true inspiration. i think rob hope looks better though for some reason


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Never realised this thread was going to be so popular ... do i win a prize or summit

:laugh:


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

im sure u got some reps off it  thats enough


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> im bigger  no way i could ever get that conditioned though!! damn.


 Bro get real, strip off the water and fat and you would look about as muscular as a string bean on stage.

Big fvcking different being big in the gym while 15% bf and having a pump compared to sub 6%bf on stage under the lights next to other compitors.

BTW like my writing?


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

At the end of the day who cares whether you are on gear or not fact is per say dom could get in show shape and look stringy con could be massive on stage but somebody could always come along and be bigger and better.Natural i state it when mentioning that I compete size wise I have no issues I aint colman neither am i mr average.There are too many stupid misconceptions that all naturals are small and gear guarantee's success which people measure through size paul george hardly massive but has a pro card.In any show the BEST should always win whether 20stone ripped or 10stone ripped natural or not.mike williams god bless his soul beat plenty of nabba ebf people and had no issues.If assisted didnt put down natural with the sad old stupid assumptions and naturals didnt make weak ass excuses and belittle assisted compertitors success or and size then it would be sweet.

ps big dom 21 or not get your ass on stage 2009:thumbup1: lets see what you got


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Con said:


> Bro get real, strip off the water and fat and you would look about as muscular as a string bean on stage.
> 
> Big fvcking different being big in the gym while 15% bf and having a pump compared to sub 6%bf on stage under the lights next to other compitors.
> 
> BTW like my writing?


ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> Never realised this thread was going to be so popular ... do i win a prize or summit
> 
> :laugh:


Cant say Ive agreed with anything you have said , but full credit for getting a discussion going ! :thumb:


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol con. well maybe i would be your size if i was on 700mg test a week


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> lol con. well maybe i would be your size if i was on 700mg test a week


How to make friends and influence people...?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

huh was a joke mate but seriously i would be


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> lol con. well maybe i would be your size if i was on 700mg test a week


Not a chance mate!

have you seen your back:whistling:

Cant beat genetics no matter how much gear you take:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

ye ladies should sort out a straightener..


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i know i know lol i saw yours and cons backs in that over post... :| daaamn thats big.

btw con how comes you back looks bigger in the 19yr old one when you was natty than the one now? maybe its the lighting or something. dont take this as insult lol


----------



## dru0111 (Aug 28, 2007)

Golden Man said:


> At the end of the day who cares whether you are on gear or not fact is per say dom could get in show shape and look stringy con could be massive on stage but somebody could always come along and be bigger and better.Natural i state it when mentioning that I compete size wise I have no issues I aint colman neither am i mr average.There are too many stupid misconceptions that all naturals are small and gear guarantee's success which people measure through size paul george hardly massive but has a pro card.In any show the BEST should always win whether 20stone ripped or 10stone ripped natural or not.mike williams god bless his soul beat plenty of nabba ebf people and had no issues.If assisted didnt put down natural with the sad old stupid assumptions and naturals didnt make weak ass excuses and belittle assisted compertitors success or and size then it would be sweet.
> 
> ps big dom 21 or not get your ass on stage 2009:thumbup1: lets see what you got


Very very good post. :thumbup1:


----------



## Pritch30099 (Feb 25, 2010)

im a natty but i dont shout about it, only reason i am natty still is cause i feel im to young to be assisted yet. I give credit to anyone who takes this sport seriously because done properly ie diet, proper training etc it takes proper dedication!

Keep lifting fellas

Also Bigdom, i first stepped on stage at 18. im 21 now and doing under 23 class in 2009.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> lol con. well maybe i would be your size if i was on 700mg test a week


you really do miss the whole point don't you mate.....


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

read a bit furthur down..


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> btw con how comes you back looks bigger in the 19yr old one when you was natty than the one now? maybe its the lighting or something. dont take this as insult lol


 1) I had used gear for about 4 months in that 19 year old pic

2) I was 198lb and very lean in the other pic i was 220lb that said i was just as lean in that shot.

3) I dont think it looks smaller i just think the muscles "pop" out for whatever reason.

4)Its not 700mg test its 700mg meth-tren i may **** blood every am but it is sure worth not looking like a "natural":thumb:


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> read a bit *furthur *down..


Do you mean further?


----------



## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

TH&S said:


> Do you mean further?


farthermore to add to your further point, how far?


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> lol con. well maybe i would be your size if i was on 700mg test a week


i think con would be huge regardless of his gear intake .... some guys who train will always be big ... genetics is a masive factor as is motivation and drive to achieve. You only have to read Cons posts to see how driven the guy is . This is what many dont understand .. steroids do not make a physique.... how many of us have spoken to guy who wants to get on gear beacuse he wants to get huge then 8 weeks later he is moaning that the stuff was fake coz he aint grown

The guys who succeed in the sport always will do i belive they are so driven by the desire to build an awesome physique that gear just represents a stone that cannot be left unturned

my philosophy is i want to develop myself to the best i can and to do whatever it takes to achieve that ... maybe i dont understand the natural mentality that says ... "i wanna be big but i dont want do that .. it might be bad for me" .... that is not a criticism of naturals just a view i dont understand

those of us who have competed (bb or powerlifting etc) have manipulated our hormone levels, artifically increased our metabolism, injected Gh, Insulin, tanning agents u name it .... if we thought it would work there aint a lot we would leave to chance... jsut because the desire to be better outweighs logic .. if i wanted to healthy i would go jogging and eat salad ..

i never look at an athlete who tests positive and think "cheat" i just have admiration and think "you want it that badly you will sacrifice everything to be the best" .... thats why i dont understand the natural who states ... im a natural bb .. thats why im not as big as him" ... and that is something to be proud of ?????


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

Maybe its something along the same line as women , when they talk about theirs tits sometimes they say ' yeah and theyre all mine ' lol :lol:


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

There we go Shaun has pretty much said it all

Like he said either you have good genetics you will gain muscle and strenght easly i went from 150lb at age 18 to 202lb at my 19th bday this was completely natural. As far as strenght the first day i ever attempted to do a deadlift i was around 180lb and i pulled up 220kg (form wasnt the best but it went up:whistling.

At the end of the day you will never really understand why people train until they throw up, why they force feed food until they vomit and why they take chemicals in order to reach their goal until you have that deep down drive at any cost feeling within your self. Most people will never have this and sure they may do a cycle or two but the guys who keep going head down like a raging bull are they guys who get to the top or at least make their ideals come true.


----------



## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

When a women has massive tits alot of people will automatically think theyre implants so a lot of women state the fact that theyre natural if people make comment on them. I guess its the same with bodybuilding alot of people when they see a big guy will think that he takes steroids so he states that he is natural. ??


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

lambert said:


> When a women has massive tits alot of people will automatically think theyre implants so a lot of women state the fact that theyre natural if people make comment on them. I guess its the same with bodybuilding alot of people when they see a big guy will think that he takes steroids so he states that he is natural. ??


 Mate at the end of the day the majority of people are self loathing creatures filled with hatred towards them self and others.

Try and imagine a person no one will insult.

Race, religion, clothes worn, height, weight, way of speaking, way of walking......you name it and there will be people out there who will act negatively towards you. If it isnt steriods it will be some thing else:rolleyes:


----------



## adamdutton (May 13, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> i never look at an athlete who tests positive and think "cheat" i just have admiration and think "you want it that badly you will sacrifice everything to be the best" ....


does that mean you believe people who use gear are more dedicated and work harder than people who train naturally? and people who train naturally dont want to be the best they can be?


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

adamdutton said:


> does that mean you believe people who use gear are more dedicated and work harder than people who train naturally? and people who train naturally dont want to be the best they can be?


 Let me say yes but let me explain why.

When you take gear your tolerance to training increases you can train harder if a natural were to do this they would over train they can not train them self into the ground.

When you take gear your body can absorb massive amounts of nutrients when you are natural eating 5000+ calories (WHICH IS NOT BLOODY EASY) would be pointless rather sticking to a just above maintance diet is the way to go as a natural.

So there you go 2 of the hardest things about bodybuilding are easier for naturals.....


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Con said:


> Mate at the end of the day the majority of people are self loathing creatures filled with hatred towards them self and others.
> 
> Try and imagine a person no one will insult.
> 
> Race, religion, clothes worn, height, weight, way of speaking, way of walking......you name it and there will be people out there who will act negatively towards you. If it isnt steriods it will be some thing else:rolleyes:


100% agreed

i get it all the time for

1) my huge awesome size

2) my amazing good looks

3) my super intelligence

4) my huge amount of money

5) My nice car

6) my huge house (wih jacuzzi, sauna and sunbed and no im not lying:thumbup1

7) The fit people i associate with

8) My phenomenal strength and power

The list is endless

So you see im a target for virtually everyone... you jealous fcks:lol: :lol:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

adamdutton said:


> does that mean you believe people who use gear are more dedicated and work harder than people who train naturally? and people who train naturally dont want to be the best they can be?


i said i dont understand their way of thinking ... i couldnt say to myself i want to be the best no matter what , and then say ..but im not doing that ....

thats not saying im right , it just says i dont get it ... i would be happy for someone to explain to me ...


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

Just out of interest... as I don't know... is there a line that most wouldn't cross?

You see programmes and such like about Greg Valantino and his synthol habit, there was another programme about the dude who got implants in legs,chest, arms etc..

Shaun, you said steriods was just another stone that couldn;t be left unturned... but is there a line where the stones are left unturned?

Please don't take the question the wrong way.. just interested.


----------



## stfc (Oct 28, 2005)

shaun i hope this thread was not started after talkin to stuart lol,just remember wednesday is natural night lol.


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Floyde said:


> Just out of interest... as I don't know... is there a line that most wouldn't cross?
> 
> You see programmes and such like about Greg Valantino and his synthol habit, there was another programme about the dude who got implants in legs,chest, arms etc..
> 
> ...


thats a good question

i never classify Greg Valantino as a bodybuilder or someone who is driven ... bodybuilding is about building mucle and developing an image of body perfection... injecting oil is not developing muscle its highlighting the laziness of the individual


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

But it does highlight how driven he was to look as good as his mind wanted.

I've heard it loads of times that many bodybuilders will never think their big enough.. because by all rights Greg was a pretty impressive body builder before the synthol.


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

stfc said:


> shaun i hope this thread was not started after talkin to stuart lol,just remember wednesday is natural night lol.


ha ha as i keep saying ... testosterone is a natural substance ... therefore im more natural than most


----------



## adamdutton (May 13, 2008)

Con said:


> Let me say yes but let me explain why.
> 
> When you take gear your tolerance to training increases you can train harder if a natural were to do this they would over train they can not train them self into the ground.
> 
> ...


i understand where you are coming from but it is the gear that allows your body and mind to train harder so you are still training to your maximum effort and potential with out over doing it and so do people who train naturally, just because they cant go to the gym every day doesnt mean they are not pusing them selves to their limit.

i think if you are dedicated to get a better body weather or not you use gear you will still train to you full limit and potential, its just a bonus for people that use gear that there limit is higher but they are still putting in 100% effort just like a natural as you cant go beyond 100% of your limit (if you get what i mean)

but i would say that people who do use gear and know what they are doing probably are more dedicated and do put in more effort than the every day natural guy who goes to the gym once or twice a week (and goes round saying others are only big because of gear) as they have to be otherwise there is no point in using gear if they are not 100% dedicated. but they are not more dedicated than a natural who puts in 100% effort into everything they do to build a bigger better body.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

What most NATURALS are forgetting is that every AAS user has once been a NATTY so we know exactly what its like to be in your position.

There is nothing you can tell us because we have been there and got the T-shirt.

On the other hand, you have absolutely NO CLUE what its like to train assisted, So how can you even comment or make comparison?? You have nothing to compare to.

If an AAS users says its harder with drugs, Then it is because they have done them both


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

jw007 said:


> What most NATURALS are forgetting is that every AAS user has once been a NATTY so we know exactly what its like to be in your position.
> 
> There is nothing you can tell us because we have been there and got the T-shirt.
> 
> ...


good point


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i think people who dont take gear work just as hard if not more tbh. its just that when your on gear you can lift more weight doesnt mean your working harder. example say i do a drop set of bench 140, 100, 60 now thats extremely hard for me and would almost leave me crying in pain lol. whereas guys on gear can through up big weight, say 200k+, doesnt mean they are working harder its all in perspective of the person...


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> i think people who dont take gear work just as hard if not more tbh. its just that when your on gear you can lift more weight doesnt mean your working harder. example say i do a drop set of bench 140, 100, 60 now thats extremely hard for me and would almost leave me crying in pain lol. whereas guys on gear can through up big weight, say 200k+, doesnt mean they are working harder its all in perspective of the person...


Same bones, same skin, same joints BIGGER weight

More stress on body=HARDER


----------



## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

jw007 said:


> Same bones, same skin, same joints BIGGER weight
> 
> More stress on body=HARDER


can ya dumb it down a tad for me?

:lol:


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

jw007 said:


> If an AAS users says its harder with drugs, Then it is because they have done them both


So yuo have to actually DO something before you can have a valid opinion on it?


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Floyde said:


> So yuo have to actually DO something before you can have a valid opinion on it?


You can have any *opinion* you want mate, But you DONT REALLY KNOW


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

So why is it banned in so many Competative sporting activities?


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

jw007 said:


> You can have any *opinion* you want mate, But you DONT REALLY KNOW


So your saying its not really valid


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yeah but with gear for example. you do a 500mg test cycle ye. you get results. you try it again and you dont get results or little (just an example). therefore you either up the dosage or add in more compounds. this is not you working harder then is it, its the extra drugs working harder. no?


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

I think its also valid that many gear users never really reached their full potential as a natural trainer.. so how have they the knowledge of what effort a stringent natty puts in? ( I base this on the number of users that started/are under 20.. their still growing surely so natural potential is still a way off no?)

I always feel I have to say.. but I'm not making judgement.. just interested in how people from their opinions... its all part of a big learning curve


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

All this talk about weights etc makes me laugh.

bbing is how you look.

I look awesome so I know I work hard

Cocks who take loads of gear and dont look good dont work hard.

Naturals who look good show me they work hard

Naturals who dont look good dont work hard.

Simple.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Floyde said:


> So your saying its not really valid


Your opinion is your opinion, and your entitled to it.

Have you ever been bummed up the ar5e by another man?????

Yes??? No???

If not you would prob think it would hurt and its not enjoyable, Thats your opinion.....

But you dont really know do you??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> yeah but with gear for example. you do a 500mg test cycle ye. you get results. you try it again and you dont get results or little (just an example). therefore you either up the dosage or add in more compounds. this is not you working harder then is it, its the extra drugs working harder. no?


again this totally highlights the misconception of some guys ,,, it doesnt work like that ... ???????


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I know 'look good' is subjective but you get the drift


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

so how does it work shaun? if i have a misconception? how do people in that case end up on 2g+ gear a week if what i said is not true?


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

jw007 said:


> Your opinion is your opinion, and your entitled to it.
> 
> Have you ever been bummed up the ar5e by another man?????
> 
> ...


I thought it would hurt and it bloody well did!

But I had to double check

20 times.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> so how does it work shaun? if i have a misconception? how do people in that case end up on 2g+ gear a week if what i said is not true?


Well you will never know because you wont ever take it


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

jw007 said:


> Your opinion is your opinion, and your entitled to it.
> 
> Have you ever been bummed up the ar5e by another man?????
> 
> ...


Are you comig onto me? :blush: :blush:


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Floyde said:


> Are you comig onto me? :blush: :blush:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

never say never lol. why cant you answer my question? is it because ive hit the nail on the head


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> so how does it work shaun? if i have a misconception? how do people in that case end up on 2g+ gear a week if what i said is not true?


As your muscles increase in size you can handle more test to make them grow harder.

The effort stimulates the growth so extra effort has to be put in.

working at the same level just keeps the same size surely you know this as its the same for naturals as they grow bigger albeit at a slower pace they can handle more weight.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> never say never lol. why cant you answer my question? is it because ive hit the nail on the head


Its a stupid question mate, its different for everybody, you want a one rule fits all, it doesnt.

My mate took 10 shots of sus a week just because he had it sitting there,

Another mate took a whole bottle of tren (3000mg) because he thought the 10ml vial was 300mg per bottle not per ml

My reasons would be different to shauns or TTs, if your asking shaun directly thenhow do you know hes taken 2g a week?? but only he can answer you that


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yes tom. so basically its the gear which is making you work harder then? not yourself. therefore those assissted dont work any harder than naturals, its the extra help they are being given?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i wasnt asking people in particular i was making a comment and i see ive been answered, and what i thought was right


----------



## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> As your muscles increase in size you can handle more test to make them grow harder.
> 
> The effort stimulates the growth so extra effort has to be put in.
> 
> working at the same level just keeps the same size surely you know this as its the same for naturals as they grow bigger albeit at a slower pace they can handle more weight.


great info matey, cheers. still a gorowin boy at the min! my time is yet to come.


----------



## Floyde (Jun 22, 2006)

Alex Redford said:


> great info matey, cheers. still a gorowin boy at the min! my time is yet to come.


Out of interest what age do you think you will be ready? and do you think you will actually wait til then?

I'm a right impatient fecker... Hire Purchase was invented for people like me.. the idea of waiting for something good frustrates the hell out of me! :lol: :lol:


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> yes tom. so basically its the gear which is making you work harder then? not yourself. therefore those assissted dont work any harder than naturals, its the extra help they are being given?


Not MAKING

ALLOWING

Gear is a facilitator for growth not the stimulant.

Its the person that determines their own level of work, sadly most people lack the determination to push themselves to the limits.

Gear allows you to push through barriers that you couldnt do when natural hence gear users CAN train harder than a natural. Thats a fact you cant get away from because of the recovery ability of gear.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

So,if i(natural) see someone(aas) in the gym train much less harder than myself....can i assume he likes it in the bum?(which he knows doesn't hurt him).

*only joking before you have roid rage on me* :tongue:


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

BLUE(UK) said:


> So,if i(natural) see someone(aas) in the gym train much less harder than myself....can i assume he likes it in the bum?(which he knows doesn't hurt him).
> 
> *only joking before you have roid rage on me* :tongue:


Well AAS means you can take it harder in the ASS so maybe not.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

BLUE(UK) said:


> So,if i(natural) see someone(aas) in the gym train much less harder than myself....can i assume he likes it in the bum?(which he knows doesn't hurt him).
> 
> *only joking before you have roid rage on me* :tongue:


All AAS users are gay, its a side effect:thumbup1:

One ive come to love.

Oh and altho it looks like the aas is not training as hard, beleive me he will be, its all done with mirrors :lol: :lol:


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Just a quick question,before i decide whether he isn't training as hard as me,i should give thought as to whether he was working on his 'inner strength'??!! :whistling: :whistling:

Back on subject.......

I think i agree that those who 'want it more' would use aas unless they're content with being average sized yet in fantastic shape.

Along with this though,there are a LOT of people who use aas because they're idle and dont wish to put the hard work in at becoming the best that they can.Yes they will gain but not as much as they could with added efforts.


----------



## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

jw007 said:


> *All AAS users are gay, its a side effect:thumbup1:*
> 
> *One ive come to love.*
> 
> Oh and altho it looks like the aas is not training as hard, beleive me he will be, its all done with mirrors :lol: :lol:


Alot of feelings I have been having are starting to make sense now


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## Pritch30099 (Feb 25, 2010)

this is turning interesting.


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

here ya go lads, maybe this'll 'straighten' things out


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

Feeling very straight all of a sudden....


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

PeterTheEater said:


> here ya go lads, maybe this'll 'straighten' things out


she's well under age for sure

arrest that man!

she got web cam link?


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> i think people who dont take gear work just as hard if not more tbh. its just that when your on gear you can lift more weight doesnt mean your working harder. example say i do a drop set of bench 140, 100, 60 now thats extremely hard for me and would almost leave me crying in pain lol. whereas guys on gear can through up big weight, say 200k+, doesnt mean they are working harder its all in perspective of the person...


 You are just saying this to show off about your 3 plate bench press admit it:rolleyes:

There is a direct relation between aas and strenght however some of the biggest bb's are weak as **** and some of the strongest men do not look very muscular.


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

Mrdaveyk said:


> she's well under age for sure
> 
> arrest that man!
> 
> she got web cam link?


23 in that pic.. 19 in this


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2008)

I was liking her until i saw the curls:lol:


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

Con said:


> I was liking her until i saw the curls:lol:


s'ok mate, they;re her pubes.. from her back.. swept over...


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

con you got me i was trying to brag lol


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

Yea I was imagining a brunette...


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## PeterTheEater (May 20, 2004)

eh?

long blonde ringlets, 32 G tits, loves the c***..

n ye would ciomplain?

tisk tisk boys!!


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

jw007 said:


> What most NATURALS are forgetting is that every AAS user has once been a NATTY so we know exactly what its like to be in your position.
> 
> There is nothing you can tell us because we have been there and got the T-shirt.
> 
> ...


Its not a good point its another assumption I no that at some point you and anyone else was natty. People make choices bigger aint always better for some fact quantity isnt always better than quantity. Natty is a choice same as being assisted the work still has to be put in.


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

So from what Ive gathered from this thread is that according to some people on here natural is pointless isnt that as bad as saying people only get big because their on gear.Con and shaun you are so mistaken Ive made my choice you have made yours there is no written law that states competing naturally means you dont have the heart or drive to be big.People like mezza and fivos are mentioned but the late great mike williams,lee williams,jon harris,kevin skelland marcel arciel ben agoboke chris nsumbgu I could go on have competed in shows against supposedly better people with more drive etc blah blah nonsense and been successful.At the end of the day people will make choices I compete naturally but would love to look like darrem charles or dorian yates is it possible no.I dont say oh im natural i have no drive etc and I dont think if I took a shed load it would make a difference as dorian for example was a "different animal" from most and nobody could match that. As much as people are moaning about people spouting on about naturals saying their naturals this thread has taken on tones of natural bashing. It may be hard for some people to grasp that size is not the be all and end all to this little sport QUALITY shaun taverner(sorry if spelt name wrong) quality but that huge massive dude who people doesnt nail his condition good and big but not quality.I know someones going to comment on grammer etc as a dig but the fact is I wouldnt look at somebody bigger than me and thing jesus maybe I dont have the drive etc I think does he have the WHOLE package if he does then yes its a struggle but hey its a choice made


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I dont know what the big deal is about gear is anyway, it makes you look and feel better but thats about it, nowt magical


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

oh and sex drive!!! well unless you have tried it you will never know!!


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## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

Kezz said:


> oh and sex drive!!! well unless you have tried it you will never know!!


defo better when your the receiver :thumb: :innocent:


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Dunno about that tho.........LOL


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

:confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :whistling: :whistling: :confused1: :confused1: :whistling: :whistling: :innocent: :whistling:


----------



## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

cardio sux said:


> defo better when your the receiver :thumb: :innocent:


That's what jw007 said


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

ParaManiac said:


> That's what jw007 said


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

cardio sux said:


> defo better when your the receiver :thumb: :innocent:


Best thing i've ever heard!!


----------



## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> defo better when your the receiver :thumb: :innocent:


 OIOI


----------



## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

musc said:


> Best thing i've ever heard!!


you must of lived a sheltered life :tongue:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> defo better when your the receiver :thumb: :innocent:


hey i dont understand all this giving and recieving talk ??

in my opinion its better receiving gear than giving it ..... fcuk !!! how u gunna get big giving it ... or have i missed something :confused1:


----------



## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> hey i dont understand all this giving and recieving talk ??
> 
> in my opinion its better receiving gear than giving it ..... fcuk !!! how u gunna get big giving it ... or have i missed something :confused1:


re read and try again :whistling:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> re read and try again :whistling:


Cardio Sux i was joking u do know that dont ya he he


----------



## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

either joking .. or time to call men in white coats


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> either joking .. or time to call men in white coats


can you give me their number lol x


----------



## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

hahaha yeah i'm as mad as a box of frogs


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> hahaha yeah i'm as mad as a box of frogs


hey i never doubted it for a second ...


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## cardio sux (Jul 7, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> hey i never doubted it for a second ...


bugga ... thort i had ya fooled :tongue:


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

cardio sux said:


> bugga ... thort i had ya fooled :tongue:


hey its unlikely that one blond can fool another blond is it ????


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## Alex Redford (Sep 9, 2008)

ShaunMc said:


> hey its unlikely that one blond can fool another blond is it ????


This has been a quality thread shaun cheers buddie.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> .. ever noticed how natural bodybuilders always announce themselves as naturals where as the rest of us just say we are bodybuilders
> 
> why is this????? i always feel they are trying to gain some moral higher ground to make up for the fact that they are mainly pretty small
> 
> ...


same reason gay men adopt the high toned voice and how everything becomes super smashing fantastic!!!

They feel that if they don't do that they wouldnt get as much attention :laugh:

Ooo ooo ooo ooo, i'm a natural!!!!

Loookeemeeee!!!! No AAS!!!


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2008)

Kezz said:


> oh and sex drive!!! well unless you have tried it you will never know!!





cardio sux said:


> defo better when your the receiver :thumb: :innocent:


Are you 2 tryin to wind me up totally today......stop talkin about sex will ya, god you'd think we're all nympho's on here :wacko: :wacko:

Rockin backwards and forwards like some loon :drool:


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2008)

Incredible Bulk said:


> same reason gay men adopt the high toned voice and how everything becomes super smashing fantastic!!!
> 
> They feel that if they don't do that they wouldnt get as much attention :laugh:
> 
> ...


ha ha ive got a crackin mental image now of poofter naturals lol


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## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

hey shaun i thought i better add my bit to this conversation, by the way in case you were wondering its rich from the gym, picture doesnt do me justice, lol.

I respect natruals for going that way if they feel thats is what is for them but please come on im sure everyone on here reads the beef magazine and if you are like me i dont even bother looking at the natural results or pictures as i might as well go to a local swimming pool or fitness first health club and put some tan on some guys and away we go.

Bodybuilding is not just about being shredded its about being as big as you can be hence "building" in the title.

For as long as i compete in this sport i will not be natrual as my swimming days are long gone.

As for the reasoning behind this thread my good friend big shaun has started i totally agree, why do you have to feel the need to announce to everybody you are natural, is it an excuse for not actually looking like a bodybuilder, or like shaun said "not wanting it enough" or because you have some moral high ground on the subject, like the tossers who work in our local needle exchange who feel they have the right to lecture us about the dangers of steriods but if your taking heroin its ok?????


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

There are some fantastic naturals out there and IMO Fivos is one of them. He has achieved a great physique without the use of gear.. The thing is I have never heard the man preach about being natural. SO, he is obviously secure about his achievements and doesn't need to constantly assure people "I'm natural".


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Liam - I expected alot more from you considering your time on the boards.. Your posts seemed completely uneducated and nieve to be honest.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

stating your natural doesnt mean your insecure lol i dont get this notion. it means you dont want to be mistaken for taking gear (eventhough those on gear are very dedicated to what they do most of the time, although the use of gear in those who really dont need it yet is increasing).. as in the publics eyes if you are muscle then they see you as taking gear, which is why whenever people ask me if i do, which happens alot, i say no because i am proud of what i have achieved so far naturally. it doenst mean im insecure, as im bigger than many ass users anyway


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> as im bigger than many ass users anyway


 Again your blowing your own horn and trying to start up an arguement once again so i will put you in the red

You have plenty to contribute when it comes to training and your diet approach but you have said MORE than enough about naturals.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol. ok if that makes you fell better mate 

isnt the truth allowed on this forum no more? damn was better in the old days when i read this when osc, winger etc was here,,, aswell as you con


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> stating your natural doesnt mean your insecure lol i dont get this notion. it means you dont want to be mistaken for taking gear (eventhough those on gear are very dedicated to what they do most of the time, although the use of gear in those who really dont need it yet is increasing).. as in the publics eyes if you are muscle then they see you as taking gear, which is why whenever people ask me if i do, which happens alot, i say no because i am proud of what i have achieved so far naturally. it doenst mean im insecure, *as im bigger than many **ass **users anyway*


You're bigger than JW007...? :thumb:


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

**** knows why i tell people I am, i don't care either way. I'll be running a cycle soon anyways!


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

BigDom86 said:


> stating your natural doesnt mean your insecure lol i dont get this notion. it means you dont want to be mistaken for taking gear (eventhough those on gear are very dedicated to what they do most of the time, although the use of gear in those who really dont need it yet is increasing).. as in the publics eyes if you are muscle then they see you as taking gear, which is why whenever people ask me if i do, which happens alot, i say no because i am proud of what i have achieved so far naturally. it doenst mean im insecure, as im bigger than many ass users anyway


Mate, seriously, do yourself a favour and have a google about somatotypes and test levels as regards age.

You're clearly a meso and in your early 20's so you're in a win-win.

Others are not so fortunate.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol me a meso? do you want to see a pic of me from 4 years go? i know about somatotypes and im an ecto. i have small bone structure, i was under 11 stone 4 years ago.

also Con if you read my post again you will notice i didnt slate gear users, infact i complimented you so give me my green emeralds back! 

nope not bigger than jw007 hes a iranian beast, im talking about many others who use gear


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

> as im bigger than many ass users anyway


Your bodyfat levels and proportions from that avatar look way off. You have "chunky" arms with no definition and small lats. When you are ripped and still have some good size then you can make the statement you have made.. As it stands all I see is chunk.


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

I thought this thread was over.Assumptions made on both sides of the story that are wrong.

BIG DOM86! WILL YOU BE COMPETING IN 2009...christ will all your enthusiam you should ask organisers to help!!!!!

npa southwest und 78kg 2nd, bnbf novice 2nd. 2009 npa southwest und 78kg hoping 1st same with classic and may do und 80kg ukbbf.All the same sport just different options.Neil ashley awesome 2nd ukbbf und80kg .Status becomes relevant in choice of fed but at the end of the day its a small sport points have been made may this thread rest in peace


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

Littleluke said:


> Your bodyfat levels and proportions from that avatar look way off. You have "chunky" arms with no definition and small lats. When you are ripped and still have some good size then you can make the statement you have made.. As it stands all I see is chunk.


ouch


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Well it felt like his comment was somewhat aimed at me to be honest.. "Being bigger than many users"..

Makaveli is a good example of a natural. You have quite good levels of bodyfat aswell mate with good mass!


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Hey luke what am i chopped liver:whistling: 

Ps you doing the south coast next year.


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Werent harsh as the assumption was stupid and a tad disrespectful


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

with few exceptions the guys who declare themselves natural, usually dont need to waste their breath, i think if you just responded 'clearly, why would anyone think you used gear' they might not bother. the guys who look good natural only usually feel the need to talk about it when accused of using


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Spot on miles as ive been told that I got the way i am due to gear and must have a wee dick...bless mr average and his dumb assumptins


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Hey Golden man! Sorry mate 

I am considering the classics next year but am possibly too heavy!

Who knows what next year will bring! I will make a smart decision in January and you lot will be the first to know.. Well James L will.. As long as him turning pro this year doesn't make him forget me  PMSL!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

The small penis comment is the best.. Especially when 5 minutes later your beating them too the floor with it!! LOL


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Thats ok my feelings were hurt for a second ps what weight do you step on stage ie if 175 its 75+4kg 178 is max + i think above 178 is +6kg up to 180/182 therefore 80/82+6kg.

Or youve slept with their missus or their missus has tried to touch you up,i tell yeah its small but with the power i have behind it well only your missus would like to know:whistling: Then i might bea:whistling:t them with it if i can find it


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

I feel it's a disgusting attitude for a "user" to suggest another bodybuilding devotee "doesn't want it enough" just because they choose not to turn to drugs to improve their results. It's a different path to a different goal, and attitudes like that aren't conducive to reasonable, civilised debate. A natural doesn't want it any less than a "user", he just wants to do it differently and might actually be proud of what he has achieved with dedication and genetics whether he later intend to use drugs or not.


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

yeah just tell em thats all well and good but i could break your missus in half even with a cock as small as yours with the power i'd bang it into her with!!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

And Miles recieves a rep for that PMSL!!

Leg!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

GOTTA SPREAD SOME LOVE!! sorry dude. lol


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Goldenman I have to shoot as have people round so no time to reply.. PM me and I'll answer your question next time I pop on.. I'm not ignoring you honest! I LOVE YOU x lol


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

its ok i can wait but not long or my adhd tendancies start playing with my mind


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

miles you stole my thought

its all good luke if i was single i would be spreading the love....juice. :whistling: 

Id love to meet the gimpy people who started these assumption was checking in toilets etc across the country


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

Littleluke said:


> Well it felt like his comment was somewhat aimed at me to be honest.. "Being bigger than many users"..
> 
> Makaveli is a good example of a natural. You have quite good levels of bodyfat aswell mate with good mass!


haha cheers mate here's another pic without all the shadows, chest was lagging behind a bit here because it wouldn't grow much until i tried a very wide grip bench!


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> you dont want to be mistaken for taking gear
> 
> most naturals would only be mistaken for taking gear by a very naive non trainer, 99% of naturals do not look like they take gear they just wish they did. you only have to look through a bb mag such as the beef to see the vast vast difference in size between naturals and non naturals.
> 
> ...


you are obviously very secure mate which is not the issue, yes you are bigger than SOME gear users but i would not mistake you for taking gear. as luke said diet down a bit or show a photo with the outline of abs showing and we will see how big you are. not a dig mate just an observation

i realise this post may seem like an attack on you but i assure you it isn't mate i just think your views are wrong, but thats life i suppose if we all thought the same we would be very bored on this forum


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

Looking good there, Makaveli. What's your BF%? Looks to be around 15ish, maybe?


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

Inggasson said:


> Looking good there, Makaveli. What's your BF%? Looks to be around 15ish, maybe?


No idea mate, had it tested and it come back as 12%. You can slightly see the outline of my abs too


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

12 is good going, man!


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

mak i cant wait to see how your body reacts to steroids mate, fantastic progress fella


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

it wasnt a dig at you mate, but seeing as you have insulted me.yeah luke but i dont use over 1g gear a week mate like you to get in that size  i read your other comp thread thing. what you gona do next 2g? maybe if i cut down i will loose alot of size, who knows


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

PompyMan said:


> mak i cant wait to see how your body reacts to steroids mate, fantastic progress fella


Thanks man! I've already got the steroids but i'm gonna do the cycle after christmas when I can really focus on my diet and training. Your looking big mate. I think i read that you work on an oil rig?? must take a lot of dedication


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

bigdom86!!! your taking it too far.

1) size aint the be all and end all

2) youve made some MASSIVE assumptions that could annoy ALOT of people

3) lukes won shows/placed second so therefore id agree with his statement cut up get on stage and then comment

4) he didnt insult you..fact is for example if you competed naturally id say youve easily a stone+half to lose.Ive about 20-23 to lose a tad more and your chunkier than me thats not an insult its a fact.

Finally at the end othe day the youve made a choice be proud but at the same time be aware competing aint easy.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

im not making assumptions.. when have i assumed. i have stated facts thats all. it will only insult people if they are easy to insult or insecure. i dont go out to insult people, sure arguments start but so what? its a open debate. ill probably get banned soon anyway as people dont liek to hear certain things

i agree i need to loose weight to go on stage, all im saying is its alot easier with all the extra hands those on gear get, with different compounds for everything. shows these days are won by the best chemists not the best bodybuilder like in the old days, i mean look at jay cutler


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

Dom you are makin the classic mistake of putting Lukes success down to his gear intake ....... thats the mistake some of you natty boys make coz your not in the same league as some one like luke you try take away his efforts with the gear argument

i think Luke was honest about your physique and i think you may over estimate the size and quality of your muscle ...


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

you have your opinions and i have mine, that is fine with me. all im saying is when natural it is hard to have both large muscles and be ripped at same time, dont you think. and im saying gear makes this easier, much much easier. you saying this is wrong? or is this the "classic mistake" lol. mate some of my close friends take gear and i know they wouldnt be **** without it


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> stating your natural doesnt mean your insecure lol , as im bigger than many *ass* users anyway


mate is that a typo , did u mean your as big as many @rse users, coz that makes more sense than what you typed lol :laugh:


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

i am just kidding mate couldnt resist it


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Okay i wont argue but i compete naturally and i know some naturals who dont do 2-3hrs cardio colman does.You didnt make assumptions so how do you know that naturals train harder what makes you think that say eg luke increasing what he takes what he takes will make him bigger and better.I know users and they take more than luke and con combined and look crap...what yoursaying is one step away from your dick gets small from gear and your only big due .it may help but so does a good diet knowledge.I assume you know your stuff and even you can accept that.I will be honest and say that ive said yeah he is bigger than me due to gear but will also say dont make him better than me.

Im not offended just stating fact and its not a case of insecure or not more the tone of your thread and im not the brightest but what facts have you stated. This could go on and maybe what your saying is correct but saying YOU are bigger than most users aint fact more fiction.

Hopfully you compte next year


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

this is what i come on here for open debates. but then i get negged for my comments? its dumb.

dont get me wrong gear users work HARD, as naturals work HARD. it is different for each though but cant be bothered to go into it again as i will yet again get taken the wrong way


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

ShaunMc said:


> Dom you are makin the classic mistake of putting Lukes success down to his gear intake ....... thats the mistake some of you natty boys make coz your not in the same league as some one like luke you try take away his efforts with the gear argument
> 
> AGREE THERE
> 
> i think Luke was honest about your physique and i think you may over estimate the size and quality of your muscle ...


 AND AGAIN

BUT SOMEONE ALSO WROTE SOME BOLLOCKS ABOUT NATURALS LOOKING LIKE SWIMMERS AND NOT WANTING IT ENOUGH AT THE OF THE DAY ITS A CHOICE.NOBODY KNOWS OR CAN ASSUME THAT A TRAINS HARDER THAN B BECAUSE HE IS NATURAL OR NOT.

BIG DOM YOU CHANGED YOU VIEW AND I DO AGREE IN A MAJORITY OF CASES FOR NATURA COMPETITORS HOLDING ONTO QUALITY DENSE MUSCLE IS HARD BUT THATS THE CHOICE MADE.THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO TRAIS HARD WHICH YOU STATED PREVIOUSLY.ps I LOVE GOING SWIMMING AS I GET STARED AT DUE TO MY BODY AND EVEN MORE WHEN IM SWIMMING CAN HEAR THE HUBBIES "WHAT YOU LOOKING I COULD LOOK LIKE THAT IF I WAS ON THE STUFF".

BUT WHEN I WENT TO FLORIDE I GOT PUT IN MY PLACE 6FT4 292IBS AND H TOLD ME HE NEEDED TO ADD 30POUNDS YEAH I LOOKED LIKE MICHEAL PHELPS NEXT TO HIM BUT SO WOULDVE 90% ON THIS BOARD MONSTER AND I TRAINED WITH HIM WE PUSHED EACH OTHER AT THE GYM


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

Golden man do you have any links to your contest pictures?

Throw some up because you obviously have worked for many years at this and are a good example of a good natural:thumbup1:

Dom your making a classic mistake about Luke by thinking that because your bulked arms are larger than Lukes ripped up arms you are larger.

Bodybuilding is really not about size as it is about how it looks for example my arms are just a tad of 19 inches these days but due to the shape of them they look no where near as good as Lukes i have no problem saying this. TBH i see guys like you every day mate here in SC i can hopefully say this with out sounding racist but there are a lot and i mean A LOT of black guys with very large arms and delts but not a lot else i am talking 300lb 6ft2 carrying a fair bit of fat like you but natural (with the worst training methods i have ever seen) so yes they dwarf me horrificly but once dieted down i am pretty confident they wouldnt look nearly as good.

P.S. I will give you your green back once i have repped a few and can get back to you

Makak you look very good and if every thing works out you should have a good future in bodybuilding. What people dont realise is the majority of successful gear users started with a similar body to yours (perhaps not quite as good ;-) ) not that they looked like **** and only after gear did they build a great body.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

interesting debate.

well all i can hope for as a natural is bulky arms, or skinny arms as i cant have both bulky and ripped to shreds right now 

good i like having atleast one green emerald, not a fan of the red.


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## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

Christ is this still going.

Is it ever going to reach an agreement? lol nope

Naturals- 'gear gives you an advantage', 'if i took gear i would be like you blah blah'.

ASS users- 'we still have to work just as hard' 'gear isnt a magic pill'

There are some naturals posting who just need to do a bit research before they comment on gear. Things like 'how does someone end up on 2g of gear etc'. I knew that well before I started it.

I don't really think naturals have the right to comment on AAS users as they havent experienced AAS assisted training. Likewise, if an AAS user only trained natural or 4 weeks before jumping on gear they dont really have the right to comment.

Try saying to your wife 'oh the gas and air must have made childrbirth easy. donna down the road must have worked harder she did it natural'.

Walk a mile in my shoes kind of thing you know?

It's like saying who works harder men or women. An endless debate.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

men


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Con good points i have pics but to be honest i wouldnt post them on here as i was not happy with appearance over did the dieting and cardio.This was taken 8-9days out supposed to carb up instead i just ate alot of protein and didnt fill out;what was going on in my head went from ultra low to ultra ultra low carbs eating 400-500g protein:confused1: :cursing: :cursing:,luckly i was ultra lean and able to pump up and get vascular.as i said over did it from 94kg to 74.9kg this year im starting at 88/87 reckon 76/77 bigger and full.2009 no mistakes so expect to be first.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

Very nice physique mate i can see why you take offense at some comments, good luck with the contest prep for 09


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

when i go home ill get some new pics up as my avatar one is old and i put on some more chunk


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Con said:


> Very nice physique mate i can see why you take offense at some comments, good luck with the contest prep for 09


Thanks con

Dont really take offense more confused Ive stepped on stage at 86kg looked a mess but big then 80kg big thought i was spot on wasnt the case so last year went for it but a bit too much waist under 27 skeleton face weak as hell.I never once have said oh well might as give up..id do the nabba southwest if it was late april and if i looked out of place so what id try again with the aim of improving.Deep down i have limits but i will bust my ass trying(american terminology),gone are the days of heavy benching+squats,sensible though sometimes i get stupid eg 40kg db curls:whistling:.Con next year do you reckon you will be a british contender?

bigdom im chunkier than the photo but not like the american version


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

Golden Man said:


> Con next year do you reckon you will be a british contender?


 No chance for two reasons.

1) I am in America so will be competing in American shows.

2) I am no where near that kind of level.....hope to do well in some local shows. I nearlly did a show but thought i wasnt lean enough so pulled out one month early i then watched the show and was disgusted at the level of conditioning of most people (the majority had visable fat on their abbs:confused1 so will deffo give it a go next year.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

DRUGS ARE FOR MUGS


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

some drugs are ok


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Good to hear ,brit taking on the amateur yanks go on son do it:thumb:

Con you never know you could be the next shaun tavernor(sorry regards the spelling and my terms).


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Golden Man said:


> Dont really take offense more confused Ive stepped on stage at 86kg looked a mess but big then 80kg big thought i was spot on wasnt the case so last year went for it but a bit too much waist under 27 skeleton face weak as hell.I never once have said oh well might as give up..id do the nabba southwest if it was late april and if i looked out of place so what id try again with the aim of improving.Deep down i have limits but i will bust my ass trying(american terminology),gone are the days of heavy benching+squats,sensible though sometimes i get stupid eg 40kg db curls./quote]
> 
> This is why, even if I was good enough, I don't think I'd ever compete.
> 
> It is easily as much a science as it is an art & anyone that does compete, properly, has done sooooo damn well just to get on stage.


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

pauly7582 said:


> Try saying to your wife 'oh the gas and air must have made childrbirth easy. donna down the road must have worked harder she did it natural'.


Sh1te allegory mate. We all know giving birth is no worse than a hard legs session.

But just imagine how much ear ache we'd all get if they had to give birth every week. Jesus, it doesn't even bear thinking about.......


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## knightrider (Sep 9, 2008)

Im natural. I have said im natural in the past but only because im proud of it or because someone has asked me if I use gear or not. I dont see if as a big thing and cant believe there is over 20 pages on a thread debating this?

I am natural because I want to compete in the BNBF or NPA next year, also I believe that as I plpay american footy I am supposed to stay within the IOC regulations.

If I didnt wanna compete in a natural fed maybe I would consider using something different, I would never inject though as I am actually scared of needles (haha)

You can look at it in a different way if steroids and other performance enhancers were legal would alot of nattys use them, yes they would because they would not longer be banned from the feds they compete in. You would use what you could to give you as much help as possible without cheating wouldnt you? I rememeber right eph was allowed once apon a time and was then banned.

Only different between assisted bodybuilders and those who are not assisted is the supplements they use and what is and what is not allowed in the federation they compete in.

I might not get as big as some people who use gear, but its a good challenge, I would love to see how far I can go not taking anything and I take it as a compliment when people ask me if I do. There are young people in my gym who use gear and im far bigger then them, in a way that winds me up because I know they have not been training very long and I think they are looking for a quick fix, its a shame really as they will never see what they are capable off when not using anything.. then again I suppose they will never want to compete and only do it for vain purposes.

I see alot of slagging off of naturals in this thread, stating that they only say it because they are embarrised by their size etc..

Why dont assisted people/BB brag about using steroids, and other performance enhancing drugs? are they embarrised that they use these to aid in adding muscle? maybe they feel they have small muscles themselfs?

I think I have waffled enough... bottom line im not against using gear, its just not my cup of tea.


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## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

Knightrider i respect the fact that you have chosen your way but firstly do you honestly think American Footballers are all natural, also the guys who are smaller than you at your gym who use gear just dont eat and you cant call yourself a bodybuilder if you compete in the anb or bnbf, as to be a bodybuilder you must look like one


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

rich81 thats the worst thing i probably read. you cant call yourself a bodybuilder if you compete in the bnbf? the british natural bodybuilding fed? its got it in its name lol.

you must look like one? what does a body builder look like? jay cutler? ronnier? wolfe? good luck mate become a "bodybuiler" then


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## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

Dom are you one of those people who looks in the mirror and sees someone big??? you could do with a course of gear mate, your wasting your time training otherwise.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol. no i look in the mirror and im happy with what ive acheived, i may not be massive but so what? i do this for myself no one else. your comments are stupid, so those who compete in bnbf are not bodybuilders. rob hope is not a bb? of course not as he doesnt look like jay. i have respect for gear users who are dedicated but im guessing your one of the ones who just cant dedicate themselves so pin


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

Children this thread has gone completely pointless and your all just making fools of yourselfs at this point...shhhhhh....it's quite time let the adults talk for a little while...


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## knightrider (Sep 9, 2008)

rich81 said:


> Knightrider i respect the fact that you have chosen your way but firstly do you honestly think American Footballers are all natural, also the guys who are smaller than you at your gym who use gear just dont eat and you cant call yourself a bodybuilder if you compete in the anb or bnbf, as to be a bodybuilder you must look like one


In not talking about american football as a whole, in this country the american football leagues are supposed to abid my IOC regulations and I do so..

And how can you say competing in the NPA and BNBF dont make you a BB... its people like you who make gear users look like idiots. actually wait you just made yourself look like an idiot..


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## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

sorry mate do i not look like one


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

dont look any better than rob hope or mezza to be honest mate. good job though all the same. i see the ukbff is a proper bb whereas bnbf isnt though?


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

Reasons I would state I'm a natural; its easier to get x big with gear than without. Nothing else comes into it.


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## knightrider (Sep 9, 2008)

Silly comments like you made rich, really make you looks like a idiot and dont do the federation you compete in any favours.. I think they would be embarrised by your comments.

Personally mate you got a long way to go for a gear user.. not even in the same league as some of the naturals like Rob hope and peter chown beat you for size and easily for condition. So maybe you dont look like a bodybuilder? Cause those naturals competed in the NPA and BNBF...


----------



## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

i wouldnt pay an entry fee to watch a load of gay naturals on a stage, kate moss is bigger than half of the guys who compete in the bnbf and even she would fail the drug tests


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

but these gay naturals look better than you on stage, both in size and condition? what does that make you a full blown ***?


----------



## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

last time i checked i wasnt 10 stone so i must doing something right


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol why does weight matter. im 16stone, doesnt mean i look better than any bb


----------



## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

when you have competed, in fact when you start training then you have the right to say something, looking at your picture i thought it was my two your old nephew, and yes he is natural for now??


----------



## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

rich81 said:


> when you have competed, in fact when you start training then you have the right to say something, looking at your picture i thought it was my two *your *old nephew, and yes he is natural for now??


I take it you meant year? If you nephew is already that big there must be something really messed up in your family genetic pool. Still that's no excuse for your poor attitude.


----------



## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

rich81 said:


> i wouldnt pay an entry fee to watch a load of gay naturals on a stage, kate moss is bigger than half of the guys who compete in the bnbf and even she would fail the drug tests


Gay naturals? what a tit


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol mate your nothing special for a gear user and your pic has shown that. if you competed in the bnbf you still wouldnt be anything special


----------



## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

sorry my spelling mistake must of been all the gear i took caused my brain not to work, you naturals are really something to look up to, i really do aspire to look like a victim of starvation


----------



## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Dom, why is it that you never see rob hope, fivos or mezza screaming from the rooftops about how they are 'natural'?

They are natural, big deal...they have been training for years and years, years of hard diet, hard training...over 10 years!

They look great.

Whereas with yourself, you look as you should after a year or so of natural training...you dont need to scream from the rooftops about how 'natural' you are because everyone at your stage is natural...after another few years, then you decide what direction you want to go.

If you want to go competitive naturally then dont use aas, if you want to compete in a bodybuilding fed (opposed to a natural bodybuilding fed) then use gear...or you can even do a bodybuilding fed and be natural and against assisted guys like fivos and mezza have both done AND WON THEIR CLASSES AT REGIONAL LEVEL!

But fivos and mezza never constantly tell everyone they are natural because its a very immature thing to do, something (albeit not direct ignorance) it is a classic ignorant newbie error to do.

After youve been training another 5 years or so and have developed a better physique, then you will have people say 'good physique mate, well done' and not need to back up why you dont look like a bodybuilder just yet by making the excuse 'oh, but its natural'.

Because if you look at any natural bodybuilder who looks good, ie goldenman, fivos, mezza etc they dont constantly scream they are natural...they prefer to be judged strictly on their hard earned physique and thus there is no need to start saying what they compete in.

One either looks good or one doesnt, natural guys can look good so its ironic that the natural guys who havent been training long enough to look good (yourself) have to state you are natural...yet the ones who have put all the effort in and been training for 10 or more years ie fivos, mezza etc THEY LOOK GOOD and thus dont need to tell everyone how they are 'natural', even though they are

So...just keep training hard mate for another 4 or so more years, keep trying to progress and eat more, pay attention to diet and then you can become one of the 'natural bodybuilders who look good'...see?

Its all about how long/hard one has trained for and how their diet is.

The classic newbie error to make is to try to make out that the reason they dont look good is becaus ethey are natural...everyone has done it when starting off so its an easy ignorance to fall into.

But just train hard and intense, eat well and youll be onto a winning path mate


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

nice post brittbb but were past that bit of the discussion  i agree with what your saying though


----------



## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

i never said i was special i was just highlighting the point i have competed, as you hinted i might be an armchair bodybuilder


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

rich81 said:


> sorry my spelling mistake must of been all the gear i took caused my brain not to work, you naturals are really something to look up to, i really do aspire to look like a victim of starvation


Sadboy

I do hope, for your gf or bf sake, your penis is bigger than your IQ, probably not though:lol:


----------



## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

:lol:


----------



## rich81 (May 11, 2005)

unfortuately not, i must taken too much gear its all shrunk as the myth goes.


----------



## T_Woody (Jul 16, 2008)

rich81 said:


> unfortuately not, i must taken too much gear its all shrunk as the myth goes.


You really do need to grow up?

I think naturals state they a natural because they are proud of it. Why not be proud of it? But with people who use steroids are generally bigger, they can be proud of that. It's two different things in my mind.


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

MaKaVeLi said:


> Thanks man! I've already got the steroids but i'm gonna do the cycle after christmas when I can really focus on my diet and training. Your looking big mate. I think i read that you work on an oil rig?? must take a lot of dedication


neaRly mate, i work on a warship.... yeah it is a bit different sometimes trying to train at sea, for example i have to do high rep low weight squats as its too dangerous to do heavies. but i think of the positives such as being able to eat all the time, some people say for example builders/joiners etc etc might not be able to just pack in work and go get a meal when they want so i have more respect for people in those kinds of situations. we all have our hardships!!


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Whats happening with this forum.Where are all these idiots coming from . rich ive never weighed 10st and gay or is it fantasy time robe hope hope is 13st godfrey onyac is 15/16 same kev skelland gus fisher I COULD GO ON.I could continue your comments just show an ignornce to the sport.Seems to many people make comments in relation to the sport with no knowledge or understand.rip mike williams natural and placed 2nd from memory in wabba mezza placed 2nd neil ashley 2nd nabba and ukbbf under 80kg .I dont know it all but i understand enough to know that some of these posts are utter bollocks


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Peple who make these stupid comments should stick their pics up


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

he did earlier ^^ i commented to say mezza, rob hope, godfrey etc looked better


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

rich81 said:


> you cant call yourself a bodybuilder if you compete in the anb or bnbf, as to be a bodybuilder you must look like one


although i mostly think rich is talking BS, i kind of agree with this statement, as i said earlier in the thread most natural (non competitive) trainers do not look like they train when fully clothed. and to be fair some competitive naturals dont look like they bodybuild when fully clothed either.

standfast the freaks like mezza, like fivos/rob hope etc etc

i use because i would rather one day look like long term gear users look, which basically is a lot bigger than none gear users.

however i completely respect someones decision not to use, i still think the can be called bodybuilders (if they compete, but thats another debate)..... i just dont see the need to shout about being natural as it doesnt make a difference..... if you are a big natural people will think you have taken gear anyway because thats the stupidity of joe public


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

[email protected] this thread...its getting close to that time again me thinks (locking the thread)


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

how much weight you got on dat dere bar

<--------------------


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> how much weight you got on dat dere bar
> 
> <--------------------


 332.5kg done pretty much exactly two years ago, thought it would be a change to the normal poser pics


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yeah i prefer it 

what you dl now? after two years


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> yeah i prefer it
> 
> what you dl now? after two years


 220kg for sets of ten after i have done all my other back exercises, no need to go heavy for bb.


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

you havnt done any comp lifts since?


----------



## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Con said:


> 332.5kg done pretty much exactly two years ago, thought it would be a change to the normal poser pics


 :rockon:

50k plates hey?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

rich81 said:


> you cant call yourself a bodybuilder if you compete in the anb or bnbf, as to be a bodybuilder you must look like one


sorry mate you are totally wrong here to be called a bodybuilder is about standing onstage not the look you have, don't slate others who have stepped onstage please...



rich81 said:


> when you have competed, in fact when you start training then you have the right to say something, looking at your picture i thought it was my two your old nephew, and yes he is natural for now??


do not insult fellow members pics Rich their is no reason to get personel mate i am sure many could slate your picture....just because you have competed does not make you better than everyone else.....please play nice


----------



## knightrider (Sep 9, 2008)

PompyMan said:


> although i mostly think rich is talking BS, i kind of agree with this statement, as i said earlier in the thread most natural (non competitive) trainers do not look like they train when fully clothed. and to be fair some competitive naturals dont look like they bodybuild when fully clothed either.


Are you being serious or you on a wind up to? Some gears users dont look big when wearing clothes...

What is your definition of a bodybuilder? or do you mean people in lift weight in general? and bodybuilder was a slip on the tounge.. cause i can assure you there is a difference..

Its like saying everyone on here is smaller then ronnie coleman so therefore they cant be a bodybuilder..

I wish people would think before they type out their posts..


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think the question needs to be asked.

Who cares if one is natural or assisted?

Only problem I see is a guy using gear in a natty comp.

Outside of that, it is the users choice.

This topic will not have an ending.

Lets keep the comments nice, or I will be forced to close this thread.


----------



## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Pompy, I thought that idea of being a bodybuilder meant that it mattered not what you look like in your clothes only without them?

Out of interest many times at a comp have you seen bodybuilders go on stage fully clothed?


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Agree with CON,mods please read this thread and lock it as it seems all the special people are coming out to play and insulting people where its not called for. PS con good luck abroad hopefully the experience will help you when your back in good old blighty


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

i think it has raised a lot of good debate and its clearly a topic people feel strongly about

but as it has been said there is no solution or right or wrong answer only opinions

thanks for all the comments tho

natural or assissted .... stay focussed and train hard


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

ShaunMc said:


> i think it has raised a lot of good debate and its clearly a topic people feel strongly about
> 
> but as it has been said there is no solution or right or wrong answer only opinions
> 
> ...


Very diplomatic and sensible responsible


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

nooo dont lock. its a good debate. this is a open forum so all opinions should be allowed. think its one of the best threads ive posted in on here actually, eventhough ive made many enemies


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dom unfortunatly mate we decide if it will be locked  if the personel insults continue then the thread will be locked


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## adamdutton (May 13, 2008)

ive seen mezza a lot in real life fully clothed as he lives quite near me and in off season when clothed you wouldnt know he was natural, he looks huge off season and you would definatley know he was a bodybuilder, when i first met him and saw him fully clothed i always thought he used gear he was that big.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

but its not insulted. its constructive criticism


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yeah i dont get the in clothes bit either? i know plenty of naturals who are huge. but they are older guys, say late 30s mostly


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

GAY SWIMMERS THE GENERAL DISREGARD AND DISRESPECT FOR CHAMPS AND ESTABLISHED KNOWLEDGEABVLE BODYBUILDERS IS AND HAS BEEN INSULTING


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> but its not insulted. its constructive criticism


well keep going with your constructive criticism mate


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yeah but goldenman you know the truth so therefore it is not insulting, it is just uneducated remarks by idiots. it is if someone said to a gear user they have a 1/2" cock, but we all know the truth that they may have almond balls but their manhood stays roughly the same


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> yeah but goldenman you know the truth so therefore it is not insulting, it is just uneducated remarks by idiots. it is if someone said to a gear user they have a 1/2" cock, but we all know the truth that they may have almond balls but their manhood stays roughly the same


 Exactly so why are people chosing to post bs of the the same nature and and not be respectful of experienced views.I like nytol look and flex and shaun t and neil ashley and jason conway aint concerned on federation or dosage just the look sane way as I aint a fan of cutler.I wouldnt come on and say Im bigger than a 90% of pro's or he looks like a gay swimmer:whistling: :whistling: :cursing: ,thats plain ignorant and dumb and shows a lack of knowledge or and respect and insulting. Same as I know my nutrition but would preach to tiny tom on what stuff he should take as I dont have the "practical" knowledge.

Hope dom some day you grace the stage I cant be missed


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

we will see what happens mate


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

knightrider said:


> Are you being serious or you on a wind up to? Some gears users dont look big when wearing clothes...
> 
> What is your definition of a bodybuilder? or do you mean people in lift weight in general? and bodybuilder was a slip on the tounge.. cause i can assure you there is a difference..
> 
> ...


no i am not on a wind up mate... i never said naturals were not bodybuilders, of course they are (competitive ones, but like i said thats a different debate and one we have done to death on here). there is no point getting high and mighty saying you wish people would think, i did think, just cos you dont agree doesn't make me wrong.



Captain Hero said:


> Pompy, I thought that idea of being a bodybuilder meant that it mattered not what you look like in your clothes only without them?
> 
> Out of interest many times at a comp have you seen bodybuilders go on stage fully clothed?


yes on comp day is all that matters to competitors..... BUT how often does one compete.... once or twice a year usually..... therefore i would still want to look big when i am fully clothed. not that i do right now i am just saying.

not seen any on stage fully clothed but i have seen onstage wearing boxers instead of trunks lol

really didnt mean to get anyones backs up saying about naturals sometimes not looking like they train but i stand by the comment...

like i have stated time and time again i have upmost respect for naturals, in fact anyone who tries to better themself, but the fact is i personally would rather look like a gear user looks than like a natural the look does not appeal to me. (again standfast on the freaks like rob and mezza, even after 10 years on gear i won't look like them)

i still dont feel the need to shout about being natural because its as if people think that they would be mistaken for gear users when in most cases they would not


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be fair Pompey anyone can look big in clothes in fact gyms are full of these guys it takes no discipline to look big in clothes the key is to look big in and out of clothes otherwise the women will be gutted when you strip off


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

PompyMan said:


> no i am not on a wind up mate... i never said naturals were not bodybuilders, of course they are (competitive ones, but like i said thats a different debate and one we have done to death on here). there is no point getting high and mighty saying you wish people would think, i did think, just cos you dont agree doesn't make me wrong.
> 
> yes on comp day is all that matters to competitors..... BUT how often does one compete.... once or twice a year usually..... therefore i would still want to look big when i am fully clothed. not that i do right now i am just saying.
> 
> ...


But imagine how huge-er and awesome-er they would be if they took gear


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair Pompey anyone can look big in clothes in fact gyms are full of these guys it takes no discipline to look big in clothes the key is to look big in and out of clothes otherwise the women will be gutted when you strip off


very true, there was a guy in the gym the other week and he had about five coats on and looked massive, as he warmed up and stripped down to a vest he just seemed to get bigger every layer he took off i was gutted. did have a word with him though and tried to get his secrets lol... and to be fair he was very friendly.


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

jw007 said:


> But imagine how huge-er and awesome-er they would be if they took gear


very true, maybe someone can photoshop a pic.... mezza in particular as i prefer his shape over robs but that is obviously all subjective


----------



## Dwaine Chambers (Sep 14, 2008)

I have the solution to everything. There should be no such thing as natural bodybuilding. Instead they should call it "legal body building".

I read there were substances that were legal ten years ago that are now banned, yet people calling themselves natural probably would have been taking these things at that time. They would still consider themselves natural during that period, even though they would not be natural if they tested positive for them now. So legal bodybuilder seems a better way to describe the difference.

There you go, sorted.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Am i correct in thinking AAS dont actually do anything???

All they do is send a signal to the body, so the body acts in a different manner.

Ie cocaine doesnt "do anything" it just tells brain to produce a few more endorphins????


----------



## Dwaine Chambers (Sep 14, 2008)

Or maybe naturals could be called Testicular body builders?

Makes sense?


----------



## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

PompyMan said:


> very true, maybe someone can photoshop a pic.... mezza in particular as i prefer his shape over robs but that is obviously all subjective


before/after lol


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

awesome pic, photoshop me (but bigger lol)


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

jw007 said:


> awesome pic, photoshop me (but bigger lol)


haha thanks, you got a better pic mate?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

MaKaVeLi said:


> haha thanks, you got a better pic mate?


in my jwoo7 shic thread in shows pros inspiration section:thumbup1:


----------



## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> shaunmc i think you have some serious insecurities yourself.
> 
> i really dont see the problem in saying your natural, even if you are declaring it. so what? just because you couldnt achieve something naturally doesnt mean others cant. and jjj for someone who takes gear your not exactly very advanced.


mate, no offence, but you don't need to put your 100% natural in your avvy as we can simply tell by looking.... :whistling:


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Robsta said:


> mate, no offence, but you don't need to put your 100% natural in your avvy as we can simply tell by looking.... :whistling:


PMSL


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Robsta said:


> mate, no offence, but you don't need to put your 100% natural in your avvy as we can simply tell by looking.... :whistling:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> shaunmc i think you have some serious insecurities yourself.
> 
> i really dont see the problem in saying your natural, even if you are declaring it. so what? just because you couldnt achieve something naturally doesnt mean others cant. and jjj for someone who takes gear your not exactly very advanced.


Is there realy any need for the personal insults?


----------



## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

Robsta said:


> mate, no offence, but you don't need to put your 100% natural in your avvy as we can simply tell by looking.... :whistling:


Well said that man.


----------



## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

before/after

















might aswell make you green while im at it:laugh:


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

lol good photoshopin


----------



## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

Why is JW007's right hand so white?


----------



## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Robsta said:


> mate, no offence, but you don't need to put your 100% natural in your avvy as we can simply tell by looking.... :whistling:


^^^^^^^ what he said :thumbup1:


----------



## cypsup (Aug 3, 2008)

you got any peas and sweetcorn for sale???? pmsl


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

PMSL, can you make him pasty, no tan please,


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Beans said:


> Why is JW007's right hand so white?


RSI and nerve damage, from too much self abuse, :whistling:


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Nytol said:


> RSI and nerve damage, from too much self abuse, :whistling:


Is it not his left hand as a result of his friend charles?  :thumb: :whistling:


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

MaKaVeLi said:


> before/after
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FCKIN awesome:thumbup1: rep you again when spread love, can you make me normal colour as well so i can send people and pretend me:thumb:

ps

look like marcus rhul

:beer:

sorry you HAVE missed it


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Beans said:


> Why is JW007's right hand so white?


my pre workout stimulant:whistling:


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Nytol said:


> PMSL, can you make him pasty, no tan please,


fck off, im no ginge:lol:


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

Robsta said:


> mate, no offence, but you don't need to put your 100% natural in your avvy as we can simply tell by looking.... :whistling:


lol true. ill try and get my cousin to take some pics with me as hes bascially as before and after of me taking gear :thumb:


----------



## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> lol true. ill try and get my cousin to take some pics with me as hes bascially as before and after of me taking gear :thumb:


 !!!


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

Golden Man said:


> !!!


?

as in im the before hes the after :cool2: looks good tho


----------



## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

We aren't gonna start this stupid sh!t again today are we...While we are at it Why does Natural peanut butter feel the need to say it's Natural on the label in big letters and the artificial peanut butter only states it with small letters as if it was ashamed or something...Really guy's give this fecking thread a break for awhile...It's served it's purpose and know it's time to move on...play nice...


----------



## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Con said:


> Golden man do you have any links to your contest pictures?
> 
> Throw some up because you obviously have worked for many years at this and are a good example of a good natural:thumbup1:
> 
> ...


Hey, haven't been on the boards a few days and have come back to catch up on this thread.

I really appreciate your comments buddy 

Dom - I don't remember if I posted mg of the gear I was using in prep for my show? But, now in total I am using less than 1g.


----------



## cypsup (Aug 3, 2008)

cellaratt said:


> We aren't gonna start this stupid sh!t again today are we...While we are at it Why does Natural peanut butter feel the need to say it's Natural on the label in big letters and the artificial peanut butter only states it with small letters as if it was ashamed or something...Really guy's give this fecking thread a break for awhile...It's served it's purpose and know it's time to move on...play nice...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BigDom86 said:


> ?
> 
> as in im the before hes the after :cool2: looks good tho


he is the after for him his look will have no bearing for when and if you take steroids..


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

it does because we are both very similar builds mate. i dont wana get into genetics tho


----------



## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

BigDom86 said:


> it does because we are both very similar builds mate. i dont wana get into genetics tho


Dom, you talk some sh1te mate...pmsl


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yeah i know. but i would have a idea you know as hes my cousin and as hes a similar build ecto


----------



## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

BigDom86 said:


> yeah i know. but i would have a idea you know as hes my cousin and as hes a similar build ecto


Dom, you have a lot to learn bud.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has a different genetic shape, its pre determined, nothing we can do, so how your cousin appears dieted down, compared to you, would be different.


----------



## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

Yes no way he can have the same mix of muscle fibre types unless he was an identical twin. Put the pics up anyway so we can see this monster for ourselves!!


----------



## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

ok mate no prob. lol i should know this as i study medical biochemistry


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

big Dom i feel i have given you purpose to your life by starting this thread as you have posted fcuking loads on it ?


----------



## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> ok mate no prob. lol i should know this as i study medical biochemistry


I assume that, although there is no anabolic steroid module, there is some genetics component to your course. In which case you should understand how inaccurate your statement was.


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

can i change the title of this thread to "BIG DOMS NATTY BLOG"


----------



## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> big Dom i feel i have given you purpose to your life by starting this thread as you have posted fcuking loads on it ?


might make you feel less guilty about all those steroids you take you junkie!!!!!

:tongue:


----------



## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

BigDom86 said:


> ok mate no prob. lol i should know this as i study medical biochemistry


Don't know what that is but its pretty simple that everyone has an individual genetic make up and an exclusive mixture of the 3 muscle fibre types.


----------



## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

pauly7582 said:


> might make you feel less guilty about all those steroids you take you junkie!!!!!
> 
> :tongue:


Problem is that his usage is spiralling out of control to the extent that he is getting roid rage on the school kids :laugh:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

guess i will sleep a bit easier....especially when i remembered that even when off i use your PB lifts as a warm up lol

sorry mate didnt realise Doms boyfriend posted on here :cool2: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

musc said:


> Problem is that his usage is spiralling out of control to the extent that he is getting roid rage on the school kids :laugh:


he was a big school kid tho mate ....


----------



## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

ShaunMc said:


> he was a big school kid tho mate ....


Its no excuse, next you'll be telling me he started it!!


----------



## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

he did ......... fcuking naturals always tring to wind me up .. they start from a young age these days lol


----------



## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> guess i will sleep a bit easier....especially when i remembered that even when off i use your PB lifts as a warm up lol
> 
> sorry mate didnt realise Doms boyfriend posted on here :cool2: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Omg, as if anyone would post a comment like that for real. I was joking you t1t, I use gear.

I'd ask for proof of you warming up with 240 but you'll be too busy reading the job paper I guess.


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

pauly7582 said:


> Omg, as if anyone would post a comment like that for real. I was joking you t1t, I use gear.
> 
> I'd ask for proof of you warming up with 240 but you'll be too busy receiving a blowjob from me I guess.


Sick!


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

pauly7582 said:


> Omg, as if anyone would post a comment like that for real. I was joking you t1t, I use gear.
> 
> I'd ask for proof of you warming up with 240 but you'll be too busy reading the job paper I guess.


mate i know u was kidding i was winding you up back ...... i was using the same dry humour back at ya .... ?????

hey im not that much of a t!t .. look at the banter with musc !!!


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

I blame the roids.....the haemorroids.


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## musc (Oct 11, 2006)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I blame the roids.....the haemorroids.


I blame Police and Traffic Wardens for everything...


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

musc said:


> I blame Police and Traffic Wardens for everything...


I blame Thatcher. :lol:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

PMSL

32 pages.

Oh dear.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

musc said:


> I blame Police and Traffic Wardens for everything...


Dont get me started.....


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

TH&S said:


> PMSL
> 
> 32 pages.
> 
> Oh dear.


Do something useful and empty your PM's inbox.


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## ShaunMc (Apr 28, 2008)

hey is this thread setting a record do i get reps or summit

altho 99% of it is b0llox i admit .... but thats only the naturals input


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## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

Ooooooops. I feel like Robsta lol.

Told you roids make you paranoid :blush:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Do something useful and empty your PM's inbox.


It's empty(ish) treacle.

Only 88PMs in the inbox now.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

ShaunMc said:


> hey is this thread setting a record do i get reps or summit
> 
> altho 99% of it is b0llox i admit .... but thats only the naturals input


Hey don't lump me in with Dominique. :confused1:

Otherwise I'll start on the whole "those that can do..." thing :thumb:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

thread run its course....now closed


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