# Insulin



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Have been chatting with another member regarding insulin use.

I've only ever used pre workout along with hgh, however I'm wondering...if you were just to use say 2iu 2-3 times a day with meals, would you still need to use hgh in order to minimise fat gain?

Obviously when using slin pre workout you need to protect from fat gain caused by all the simple carbs, but if you're using slin with meals and not adding in any extra carbs, is it still necessary?

Sorry @Pscarb I know I've bugged you gor advice quite a bit lately, but had to tag you in this one mate

Cheers


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> Have been chatting with another member regarding insulin use.
> 
> I've only ever used pre workout along with hgh, however I'm wondering...if you were just to use say 2iu 2-3 times a day with meals, would you still need to use hgh in order to minimise fat gain?
> 
> ...


 ok let's get a few things out of the way first, Insulin Does NOT make you fat, calories make you fat, insulin's mechanism is to transport substrates to the cells that it really (it lowers MPB as well)

Using insulin around a workout makes no sense and you get zero benefit from it....

Pre-workout insulin use prevents the body from using glycogen from the liver, not a good thing

Post-workout insulin use is irrelevant as it adds nothing, there was a belief that using insulin post workout would increase MPS but this has found not to be correct, GLUT4 is activated from training so this will transport substrates to the cells so no need for insulin to do that, MPS is peaked via Whey protein and Insulin adds nothing to this process.

the more sensible way to use insulin would be in smaller increments with 2-4 meals through the day, i have some of my clients use 1-3iu with 3 meals a day away from training and it works extremely well.

if you use the amount of insulin compared to your current dietary needs then you won't add fat, but what many do is add 10iu of insulin daily then add at least 100g of carbs to cover that amount of insulin, but that is 400 calories more than they are currently eating and then are surprised why they get fat.....

so if say your breakfast has 35g of carbs then use 1-3iu of insulin, your current diet covers the insulin so no issue with fat gain.


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

Insulin makes you fat, don't use it unless you want to be fat


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Sams said:


> Insulin makes you fat, don't use it unless you want to be fat


 please explain how insulin makes you fat


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> ok let's get a few things out of the way first, Insulin Does NOT make you fat, calories make you fat, insulin's mechanism is to transport substrates to the cells that it really (it lowers MPB as well)
> 
> Using insulin around a workout makes no sense and you get zero benefit from it....
> 
> ...


 @Pscarb cheers for this. It's great to get all the rumours and brought science out the way and hear it right from someone who knows!!

How necessary is it to keep slin in the fridge mate? Would a cool place be OK? Unfortunately I'm back at me mum"s since coming back to the UK till I see where I end up working, so keeping slin In her fridge isn't really an option lol


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> please explain how insulin makes you fat


 Ooooh, this should be fun hahaha!!!


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> please explain how insulin makes you fat


 It increases body fat


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> ok let's get a few things out of the way first, Insulin Does NOT make you fat, calories make you fat, insulin's mechanism is to transport substrates to the cells that it really (it lowers MPB as well)
> 
> Using insulin around a workout makes no sense and you get zero benefit from it....
> 
> ...


 This has definitely cleared up a few things for me, just one question though @Pscarb would you also split GH in small increments around the slin injections as well through out the day ? or what would your protocol be ?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Sams said:


> It increases body fat


 That is such a good explanation :lol: :lol:


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

gymfreak2010 said:


> This has definitely cleared up a few things for me, just one question though @Pscarb would you also split GH in small increments around the slin injections as well through out the day ? or what would your protocol be ?


 Smash it all in one go


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Sams said:


> Smash it all in one go


 Wow, you're really on fire today mate...lol


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Wow, you're really on fire today mate...lol


 Any other technical questions you need an answer for start a thread and tag me in buddy.

Only technical questions regarding peptides, timings, shuttling nutrients, bloods etc. No newbie stuff and I will (as I have demonstrated in this thread) take time out to give back to UKM with my extensive knowledge.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Sams said:


> Any other technical questions you need an answer for start a thread and tag me in buddy.
> 
> Only technical questions regarding peptides, timings, shuttling nutrients, bloods etc. No newbie stuff and I will (as I have demonstrated in this thread) take time out to give back to UKM with my extensive knowledge.


 Cheers mate!!

So just to recap...

The reason insulin makes you fat is because it increases busy fat

And...

The best way to take gh is to "bang it all in one go"

Nice!!!


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Cheers mate!!
> 
> So just to recap...
> 
> ...


 Yes mate. Thats hush hush prep advice I have just given away for free there. If you want a more watered down simplistic version, refer to pscarbs version above


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

stuey99 said:


> Cheers mate!!
> 
> So just to recap...
> 
> ...


 mate I'm in tears lol


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

Sams said:


> Yes mate. Thats hush hush prep advice I have just given away for free there. If you want a more watered down simplistic version, refer to pscarbs version above


 you sound like the perfect coach !!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> ok let's get a few things out of the way first, Insulin Does NOT make you fat, calories make you fat, insulin's mechanism is to transport substrates to the cells that it really (it lowers MPB as well)
> 
> Using insulin around a workout makes no sense and you get zero benefit from it....
> 
> ...


 great post mate

was planning on trying the lower dose by meal approach on my next bulk myself and that's just solidified it

ive read a few bits on pre meal slin use and am i correct in thinking these lower doses (1-4iu) prevent the need to ingest sugars post shot ? ive heard that just regular low fiber carbs are enough to prevent hypo when using such doses (white rice, pasta ect)


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

Im just here to educate and give back by sharing my knowledge.


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Sams said:


> Im just here to educate and give back by sharing my knowledge .


 Let us know when you start ay


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> @Pscarb cheers for this. It's great to get all the rumours and brought science out the way and hear it right from someone who knows!!
> 
> How necessary is it to keep slin in the fridge mate? Would a cool place be OK? Unfortunately I'm back at me mum"s since coming back to the UK till I see where I end up working, so keeping slin In her fridge isn't really an option lol


 in a dry, cool place is fine mate



Sams said:


> It increases body fat


 i was going to actually answer this then i realised you are ahead of your time so it would be pointless to 



gymfreak2010 said:


> This has definitely cleared up a few things for me, just one question though @Pscarb would you also split GH in small increments around the slin injections as well through out the day ? or what would your protocol be ?


 GH taken with Slin holds no advantage to taken it away from the Insulin, i can answer better if you tell me what you hope to achieve by taking it with GH (at the same time)



swole troll said:


> great post mate
> 
> was planning on trying the lower dose by meal approach on my next bulk myself and that's just solidified it
> 
> ive read a few bits on pre meal slin use and am i correct in thinking these lower doses (1-4iu) prevent the need to ingest sugars post shot ? ive heard that just regular low fiber carbs are enough to prevent hypo when using such doses (white rice, pasta ect)


 there is no reason at all to ingest sugars when taking insulin, any starchy or sugary carb will do they are all carbs as long as you are covered with the carb amount you will be fine.....


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> in a dry, cool place is fine mate
> 
> i was going to actually answer this then i realised you are ahead of your time so it would be pointless to
> 
> ...


 Great!! One more question mate. Would it be OK to do 2iu slin at bedtime along with 50g complex carbs or would that be risky (ie would there be another peak to worry about whole I was asleep?)


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> ok let's get a few things out of the way first, Insulin Does NOT make you fat, calories make you fat, insulin's mechanism is to transport substrates to the cells that it really (it lowers MPB as well)
> 
> Using insulin around a workout makes no sense and you get zero benefit from it....
> 
> ...


 I'm saving this is a notepad file to read back over it when I use it soon lol.

Never knew that about preworkout insulin either


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> GH taken with Slin holds no advantage to taken it away from the Insulin, i can answer better if you tell me what you hope to achieve by taking it with GH (at the same time)


 Sorry I worded that wrong mate, I never meant taking GH & slin at the same time. What I meant was. would you advise splitting the 8iu of GH through out the day as like with the slin ? or does it matter ? I'm going to follow the M/W/F protocol 8iu per day.


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## Eddias (Dec 21, 2015)

Great information, whats experiences on Metformin vs Insulin, i know do slightly different things, but understood metformin was better for making muscle cells more sensitive to insulin uptake.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> Great!! One more question mate. Would it be OK to do 2iu slin at bedtime along with 50g complex carbs or would that be risky (ie would there be another peak to worry about whole I was asleep?)


 i wouldn't use Insulin around bedtime, with all the opportunities you have through the day i see no reason to use it at bedtime



gymfreak2010 said:


> Sorry I worded that wrong mate, I never meant taking GH & slin at the same time. What I meant was. would you advise splitting the 8iu of GH through out the day as like with the slin ? or does it matter ? I'm going to follow the M/W/F protocol 8iu per day.


 it doesn't matter, some will say they take GH with Insulin as this raises IGF-1 but IGF-1 is increased no matter when you take the GH and there is no extra benefit when taken with insulin as the release times are very different.

when you take GH, IGF-1 takes approx 4hrs to get going then peaks at 12hrs, Insulin will peak and disperse within that 4hr time frame (depending on insulin used) so there is no real interaction.

the best way to increase IGF-1 is by eating in a surplus



Eddias said:


> Great information, whats experiences on Metformin vs Insulin, i know do slightly different things, but understood metformin was better for making muscle cells more sensitive to insulin uptake.


 i have used both, metformin will increase insulin sensitivity better than insulin but the side effects with metformin use far outway the side effects of safe insulin use.


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> it doesn't matter, some will say they take GH with Insulin as this raises IGF-1 but IGF-1 is increased no matter when you take the GH and there is no extra benefit when taken with insulin as the release times are very different.
> 
> when you take GH, IGF-1 takes approx 4hrs to get going then peaks at 12hrs, Insulin will peak and disperse within that 4hr time frame (depending on insulin used) so there is no real interaction.
> 
> the best way to increase IGF-1 is by eating in a surplus


 Ok perfect, I have enough info to work with now, cheers buddy


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## Eddias (Dec 21, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> i wouldn't use Insulin around bedtime, with all the opportunities you have through the day i see no reason to use it at bedtime
> 
> it doesn't matter, some will say they take GH with Insulin as this raises IGF-1 but IGF-1 is increased no matter when you take the GH and there is no extra benefit when taken with insulin as the release times are very different.
> 
> ...


 can you elaborate on the side effects, are we talking long term effects or the short term side effects for like nausea, gas, vomiting, bloating, diarrhea and appetite suppression? hope that makes sense.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> i wouldn't use Insulin around bedtime, with all the opportunities you have through the day i see no reason to use it at bedtime
> 
> it doesn't matter, some will say they take GH with Insulin as this raises IGF-1 but IGF-1 is increased no matter when you take the GH and there is no extra benefit when taken with insulin as the release times are very different.
> 
> ...


 Possibly bro science again (which us why I'm asking)...if you're taking slin with meals do you need to keep fats low? Or does it make no difference? I generally have around 25g fats in each meal


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> Possibly bro science again (which us why I'm asking)...if you're taking slin with meals do you need to keep fats low? Or does it make no difference? I generally have around 25g fats in each meal


 it is correct in the way that it is easier for dietary fat to be stored as fat than Carbs and insulin is a transporter of substrates, so because someone would use insulin in the off season so in a calorie surplus then fat gain would be easier from dietary fats than Carbs when using Insulin....


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> it is correct in the way that it is easier for dietary fat to be stored as fat than Carbs and insulin is a transporter of substrates, so because someone would use insulin in the off season so in a calorie surplus then fat gain would be easier from dietary fats than Carbs when using Insulin....


 OK, so would you recommend reducing fats mate?

I'm not concerned with a small amount of fat gain as I'm fairly lean atm. Only really looking to add slin to pile on some mass as I've lost around 15kg over the last 18 months and feel like a bit of a stick insect (although I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks this lol)

Am I also right in thinking slin should be used around 30 mins after food?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

its down to you mate, for me i would prefer to eat more carbs than fat......

any surplus will add some fat but i would want to reduce the fat gain as much as possible

no you can take the Insulin (depends which type) just before you cook your food or heat it and you will be fine....


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> its down to you mate, for me i would prefer to eat more carbs than fat......
> 
> any surplus will add some fat but i would want to reduce the fat gain as much as possible
> 
> no you can take the Insulin (depends which type) just before you cook your food or heat it and you will be fine....


 when you say " depends which type" I'm planning on using nova, before or after meal ? also would you limit slin use to training days only or as I will be only starting with 1-2iu with three meals PD, continue on rest days too ?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

wow this is starting to feel like i am coaching some of you......


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## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> wow this is starting to feel like i am coaching some of you......


 Just a tad !!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> wow this is starting to feel like i am coaching some of you......


 Cheque's in the post mate lol


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