# Strength Routine.



## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

Could someone into strength training (big) give me advice on training routine, Ive been diong madcow 5x5. but need to try something diffrent.

Can you make it so deadlifts on tue , that is all.


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## siovrhyl (Sep 14, 2008)

Tokars 5x3 System

Written by tokar

The 5x3/3x2/2x1 system is a simple and flexible way of training specific lifts for strength. The basic idea is this: regardless of how often you train a lift (although it should be at least once a week), you do 5 sets of 3 at the first workout, 3 sets of 2 at the second, and 2 sets of 1 at the third - with the working weights getting heavier each time. After the two singles you just go back to the beginning and do 5 triples again, but with a heavier weight than you lifted last time.

For example, six weeks of front squatting (1RM=140kg) might look like this:

Week	weight x reps x sets

1	110x3x5

2	120x2x3

3	130x1x2

4	115x3x5

5	125x2x3

6	135x1x2

As a rough guide, start the 5x3 at 80%1RM, the 3x2 at 85%1RM and the 2x1 at 90%1RM - but this will depend on various factors, including how long the cycle will be (start lighter for longer ones) and what the relationship is like between your performance at reps and your performance at singles. If you're particularly good at singles, for instance, you might have a 5% gap between 5x3 and 3x2 weights but an 8% gap between 3x2 and 2x1 weights. The exact weights you use are up to you; the progression and cycling is what is important.

Let's say you squat twice a week. Your workouts might look like this:

Week	Monday	Thursday

1	110x3x5	120x2x3

2	130x1x2	115x3x5

3	125x2x3	135x1x2

At this stage you will probably have to consider your recovery capacity. On the above matrix you will end up lifting 90%+ weights in consecutive weeks, which over several weeks can lead to overtraining. If the cycle is to be prolonged, deloading sessions have to be scheduled in. So the twice-a-week squat schedule might end up looking like this:

Week Monday	Thursday

1	110x3x5	120x2x3

2	130x1x2	deload

3	115x3x5	125x2x3

4	135x1x2	deload

Or you might prefer to have a whole week's deload:

Week Monday	Thursday

1	110x3x5	120x2x3

2	130x1x2	115x3x5

3	125x2x3	135x1x2

4	deload	deload

5	120x3x5	130x2x3

6	140x1x2	125x3x5

Deloading will mean cutting back on intensity. The volume of work in each session is not high on this program anyway, so a deload doesn't necessarily mean cutting back on volume in terms of number of lifts. 60%1RM is a fairly good level of intensity to work at during a deload session or week. No more than triples should be performed, and doubles are better in my opinion. "Light" high rep work is definitely out.

Exactly how your training pans out will depend on how long your cycle is (are you training towards a competition for example?), how you like to train, how good your recovery rate is, and how you feel from workout to workout. For instance, you might feel especially strong at one session and do 7x3 instead of 5x3, or 4x2 instead of 3x2. Adding the odd set here and there is fine, but it should be carefully managed - don't do 10x3 and then find yourself burned out and unable to complete 3 doubles at the next session. The basis of the program is 5x3, 3x2, 2x1. So add sets if you want, where able - but don't add reps. 5x5 is not an acceptable substitution for 5x3. Recovery and rep speed will both suffer. The only exception to this could be near to a competition where you might substitute a max double or triple in the 2x1 week if you find this useful for gauging your progress, your opener, or your 1RM. Hopefully, though, you will have tested your 1RM at some point anyway. If you think you can hit a PB in one of the 2x1 sessions, go for it. (If you hit a PB, you can drop the second single!) But this should be as you come towards the end of a cycle - and a cycle is unlikely to continue long after a PB has been achieved.

Over 9 weeks, then, back squat training (assuming a 1RM of 190kg) towards a powerlifting competition might look like this:

Week	Monday Thursday

1	155x3x6	165x2x3

2	175x1x2	130x2x6 (deload)

3	160x3x7	170x2x5

4	180x1x2	130x2x6 (deload)

5	165x3x5	175x2x3

6	185x1x2	170x3x5

7	180x2x3	190x1, 195x1 PB

8	155x2x5 (taper)	145x2x4 (taper)

9	no squat	135x2x3 (taper) Sunday: competition

Week 3 is clearly a good week - perhaps the lifter has had a lot of rest, or just feels the lifts are easy, so he adds a couple of sets to both workouts. At week 5 it starts getting harder so no extra work is done. Week 6 doesn't have a deload. This is because there is a competition coming up and it makes more sense to carry through to the next week, go for a big single and then taper over the final two weeks. These last two weeks don't follow the pattern. This is just how I like to taper (with thanks to Boris Sheiko), but it fits in very well.

You can use the system for more than one lift. You might use it for squat and bench press, training each two days a week:

Week	Day 1	Day 2	Day 3	Day 4

1	Squat 5x3	Bench Press 5x3	Squat 3x2	Bench Press 3x2

2	Squat 2x1	Bench Press 2x1	Squat 5x3	Bench Press 5x3

3	Squat 3x2	Bench Press 3x2	Squat 2x1	Bench Press 2x1

4	deload deload	deload deload

Or you could include other lifts, such as overhead presses or power cleans. Any compound barbell lift should be well suited to the 5x3/3x2/2x1 system. My next cycle will probably look something like this:

Week	Day 1	Day 2	Day 3	Day 4

1	Squat 5x3

Bench Press 5x3	Overhead Press 5x3

Deadlift 5x3	Squat 3x2

Bench Press 3x2	Power Clean 5x3

Overhead Press 3x2

2	Squat 2x1

Bench Press 2x1	Overhead Press 2x1

Deadlift 3x2	Squat deload

Bench Press deload	Power Clean 3x2

Overhead Press 5x3

3	Squat 5x3

Bench Press 5x3 Overhead Press 3x2

Deadlift 2x1	Squat 3x2

Bench Press 3x2	Power Clean 2x1

Overhead Press 2x1

4	Squat 2x1

Bench Press 2x1	Overhead Press 5x3

Deadlift 5x3/deload	Squat deload

Bench Press deload	Power Clean 5x3/deload

Overhead Press 3x2

The deloading in this example is based on my judgement of my own recovery capacity in the different lifts. In the 4th week I could either go straight to 5x3 on deadlifts and power cleans - after all, there's only been one really heavy week of each - or I could drop the weight and make the 4th week a light one pretty much across the board (after the singles at the beginning of the week). Usually I find that if I manage the workload in individual lifts well enough I don't need a whole week of deloading. Overhead presses don't seem to take that much out of me so there's no deloading scheduled for them. You have to find a pattern that works for you - and the flexibility of the system should enable that.

Finally, a word on assistance: it isn't part of this system. Most people will have their own ideas about what remedial strength work or hypertrophy training they need, and it should be possible to fit plenty of assistance programs into this layout. Personally I prefer simple linear progression for assistance - 3-4 sets, hard but not to failure, ramping up the weight and lowering the reps each week.

copy and paste fron sugdenbarbell.co.uk


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

Cheers mate, Used this your self? what kind of gains u make?


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## siovrhyl (Sep 14, 2008)

I find most of the popular routines work for a certain amount of time you just have to keep changing them round after a while to keep shocking the body no I haven't used this routine YET thought after having a good read thrrough it and speaking to a few guys on other forums it has really good reviews so when my current system starts slowing up a will try this one out!


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

That's exactly the sort of thing you want for strength. Something based on percentages, working in the 1, 3 and 5 rep range, doing 3-5 weeks and then a deload. Very nice.

Do a search for Wendler's 5/3/1 too, as this work really nicely for many people.


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

will do big. thanks


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

anyone tried smolov, Love to squat so might try this


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Yes, I have tried smolov. It is brutal.


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

how much you gain on your squat tho?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, I did it after a layoff.

Before the layoff I did a 200kg squat, to parallel, with a belt, a little rusty. I took some time off and came back with a 170kg squat. So I based the smolov percentages off of that and did it all without a belt and ass to grass.

I only did the first 3-4 week mesocycle, and got back to 200kg, but this time did it ass to the grass, without a belt.

So officially I gained nothing, but unofficially I went from a current 170kg to a 200kg which was far stronger than my best 200kg before the layoff.... if you see what I mean.

I did nothing else in those 4 weeks... literally just the squatting. My bench press didn't go down in that time, despite not doing a thing for chest.

It is brutal though. I couldn't do the 2nd mesocycle. I would highly recommend (as most people do), going off of slightly reduced percentages. Afterall, week 3 final lift is something like 10 sets of 3 with 80%+15kg. I found the repping stuff at the start the hardest personally.


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm currently taking a week off gym after reaching a plateau and getting slightly demotivated at the gym as a result so when i start back at the gym next week i'm gonna mix things up a bit and go for a big strength routine such as the Wendler's mention previously.

I'm hoping to gain mass strength instead of bulk this time as i have been mainly going towards bulking recently but after thinking about i would prefer to be stronger than bigger.

Do i still keep eating lots but add more cardio into my workouts to help out reaching my strength goals?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

The great thing about getting stronger is that you will most likely gain some good mass along the way. Plus, it sets you up for being able to gain more mass later, as 180kgx10 will build more mass than 60kgx10 

Yes, eat plenty, do some cardio for your heart and metabolism. Keep protein high, fats moderate and adjust the carbs based on how quickly you want to gain weight (i.e. whether you want to keep fat at bay).


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

big said:


> The great thing about getting stronger is that you will most likely gain some good mass along the way. Plus, it sets you up for being able to gain more mass later, as 180kgx10 will build more mass than 60kgx10
> 
> Yes, eat plenty, do some cardio for your heart and metabolism. Keep protein high, fats moderate and adjust the carbs based on how quickly you want to gain weight (i.e. whether you want to keep fat at bay).


Thanks for reply  in strength training who you stick to the main for lifts or could you also add something like shrugs to the routine?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Main lifts, plus assistance work mostly on weak areas.

In other words, take bench day:

Flat Bench - work up to a 5RM/3RM/1RM (alternate)

Incline DB bench - 2x8-12

Weighted dips - 2-3x6-10

Skulls - 2x12

That's a fairly standard one, but you mix it up based on your weaknesses. If you have strong tris, but weak delts, you do limited tri work but more delt work. Etc.

I wouldn't bother with shrugs as they are hit by deads and very rarely a weak point. Concentrate on working the core lift mostly, and then assistance on whatever is holding you back the most.


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## gold95 (May 23, 2009)

big said:


> Yes, I have tried smolov. It is brutal.


hats off to you for doing smolov, i'v seen a few start but didn't think any them ever finished (& no wonder)... if any1 is giving them a go let us know how you get on & best of luck


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## Bulkamania (Feb 16, 2009)

Quick question on the Wendler's 5/3/1 routine....

Week 1: 70/80/90% x 3

Is this all you'd do for squats in one workout? Or would you do more on top of this? Not on about isolation exercises or leg curls etc, just on about squats.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

It depends. Typically you would do warm-ups and then your 3 "work" sets.

After that, it is your call. Jim lists a few protocols:

1. Do nothing else

2. Do 5 sets of 10 at 50% of the same lift (this is called the Boring But Big template) and then call it a day

3. Typical bodybuilding type assistance work - i.e. 2-3 extra exercises, 3-4 sets of each.

I am doing 5/3/1 at the moment, and just do powerlifting style assistance, what with me being straight and everything 

So squat day looks a bit like this:

Squats: warm-ups, then 5/3/1

Posterior chain work (pull-thrus are my current fave) 3-5 sets of 20

Ab work - 2-3 sets of 20

Occasionally I will do 2 sets for calves, but usually not

I am very much a quad squatter still (trying to fix this!)... if I squatted more WSB style, I would probably throw in a couple of sets for quads as well, just to keep the size.

On the final set of 5/3/1 aside from the deload week, you are meant to do more reps if you can. So an all-out set of squats after 2 reasonable work sets should be enough really.

I highly recommend buying Jim Wendler's ebook. It is cheap and gives you a lot more thorough information than the stuff I just cobbled together from memory


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## Bulkamania (Feb 16, 2009)

big said:


> It depends. Typically you would do warm-ups and then your 3 "work" sets.
> 
> After that, it is your call. Jim lists a few protocols:
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up mate


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Right, i'm going with the Wendler routine which i will start next week.

Here is what i've come up with:

Workout Day 1 -

BB Shoulder Press*

Dumbell Row

Inc Dumbell Press

Workout Day 2 -

Deadlift*

Back Extension

Cable Crunches

Workout Day 3 -

Bench Press*

BB Row

Dips

Workout Day 4 -

Squats*

Leg Press

Hanging Leg Raises

For everything marked * i will be doing 5 reps > 3 Reps > 1 Rep following Wendler's method and for all the assistance exercises i will be doing 3 sets of 12 reps.

I will do 4 weeks on then a deload week and start again with higher weights.

:beer:


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Does anyone think this routine looks ok? Would anyone make any improvements?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Looks pretty solid to me mate. But it is 3 weeks (5x3, 3x3, 5,3,1) and then a deload.


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh yeah lol cheers mate. On the isolation exercises would you keep on the same weight until you can do all sets comfortably then increase the weight?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Yes. Either that or start lighter and up them every week for the 3 weeks, drop them for deload and then come back to the next cycle with a different exercise.


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Alright thanks for your input big. Greatly appreciated


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

No problem mate. Put up a journal. It will help you big-time, and I need people to see how well Wendler's stuff works


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Yeah might just do that i keep a written one anyway  i'm not in good enough shape for any pics yet though LOL


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Just started my routine felt really good even though they were quite low weights i'm also adding atleast 15 mins cardio per session to try and get some sort of 6 pack by my holiday in june!


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

On my current routine I'm doing my main compund exercise followed by two assistance exercises but I'm finishing my workouts after about 30-40 mins (including 15mins cardio) my question is should I add another assistance exercise or just stick to what I have?

Cheers guys


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2009)

Jesus, that smolov squat program looks a bit harsh! and im not adverse to a bit of hard work either!


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