# EOD of hGH injections are BETTER ! study says



## junk (Feb 24, 2005)

*EOD GH injections are better!..... study says*

A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577

clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in

the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower

your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic

short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who

may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:

Group I received daily hGH injections.

Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH

was the same for both groups.

Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.

Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended.

They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years

with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.

Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 SD

Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 SD for first and second year respectively.

Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 SD score

for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 SD score.

During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)

maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 SD score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment.

The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy.

The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater

than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 SD score).

At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater

than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only

negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term

results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,

so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used

it every day.

The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections.

Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather

the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels

and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected.

Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days

even after long-term hGH therapy.

The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in

selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile

pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections

do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.

"Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak

levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12-24 h. This pattern can be

regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses,

with a frequency of about eight per day."

"Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward

hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in

therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target

tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest

with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy

with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:

"alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree,

"Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the

hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (8), indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed

at the target organ level (9). "

An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be

hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day,

split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am)

and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm).

This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.

This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would

otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body

can utilize at once

Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.

Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc..

So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on

hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional

bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the

nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment.

Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having:

Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH.

Slow recovery

Decline in resting cardiac output

Increase fat mass

Decrease in metabolic rate

Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest

our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient

and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the

duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well

hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically

a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,

a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by

Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:

*http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/8/3573*

With references to 23 studies.

Here are some interesting graphs:










This graph shows the difference growth velocity difference pre GH treatment, and at the

end of the trial, 4 years after (2 years after withdrawal from GH treatment)

The dark bar marks the alternate day injections. The light bar marks the every day injections,

note that the every day injections group saw worse long-term (4 yrs) results as opposed

to the alternate day group.










This graph shows the annual bone age advancement in children treated with

alternate GH injections and daily injections.

The light bar marks the every day injections, the dark bar the alternate day injections.

In first two years (the years they were taking hGH), take a look at the relatively

small advantage ED injections gave over the EOD inj, as opposed to the 2 years

after withdrawal of the treatment. The EOD group shows a better response.


----------



## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Good post mate!


----------



## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

I don't know about better but it's certainly cheaper


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yea i have done both and i prefer ed i do get better results but i am of the impression that this study is more concerned about your own GH production post GH course rather than what the Course gives you...


----------



## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

I know from practical use that it works better ED over a period of 4 months+

the more the better also


----------



## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Jimmy said:


> I know from practical use that it works better ED over a period of 4 months+
> 
> the more the better also


This is the way ill be using it this time around.

Im doing 4 iu a day for 2 months, 6 iu a day for 2 months then 8 iu a day for 2 months as i have heard you plateu on HGH so the dose needs to be increased.


----------



## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

right on the subject of gh......

short half-life yeah?

builds up in your system to produce effects,yeah??

takes 4-5 weeks to notice effects, yeah???

why not frontload it, and do 8iu,6iu,4iu. NO????

just a thought?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Half life in the blood is 20-25 minutes and secreated from the pituitary gland during REM sleep.

I just printed up the article myself and am gonna read it at work

Ive always heard and felt that it needs to be taken for long periods of time.

The other way is 5 on and 2 off for reasons of dibeties. I never really believed that one tho. Alot of actors are on that stuff tho.

I can tell you this, it does work better for the older guys than the younger ones :bounce:

Its no mystery that HGH is my favorite. I dont get any sides and get to keep the gains.

Unlike :axe: *DECA* :gun:


----------



## traps2010 (Jan 22, 2010)

omg im confused now! i am just starting hgh and most of what i read says take 5 days on 2 off? should i try both ED and EOD and see works for me???


----------



## big (Sep 14, 2004)

traps2010 said:


> omg im confused now! i am just starting hgh and most of what i read says take 5 days on 2 off? should i try both ED and EOD and see works for me???


Yes

Most people don't notice any difference between (for instance) 4iu ED or 8iu EOD, but try it both ways and see which you prefer

Some people will tell you that you will get slightly better fat burning from ED first thing before cardio, but better mass from 8iu EOD before bed or PWO

Personally I've tried it a few ways and notice no difference between 2xED, ED, EOD or 2x/wk with the same weekly quantity.


----------



## Mikazagreat (Apr 10, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> yea i have done both and i prefer ed i do get better results but i am of the impression that this study is more concerned about your own GH production post GH course rather than what the Course gives you...


And i find split dose twice a day upon wake up and before bed time, gives me better results.


----------



## usc277 (Mar 4, 2010)

am doing an HCG blast....10 days after my last Test E injection, i will take 2500IU once a week for 4 weeks...a total of 10,000 IU.

anyone done this before ?


----------



## big (Sep 14, 2004)

usc277 said:


> am doing an HCG blast....10 days after my last Test E injection, i will take 2500IU once a week for 4 weeks...a total of 10,000 IU.
> 
> anyone done this before ?


Well, this thread is about GH rather than HCG

When using HCG, I prefer to do it throughout the cycle

Personally I think 2500iu is too high of a dose in one go. I'd rather split it into several 500iu shots throughout the week.


----------



## usc277 (Mar 4, 2010)

big said:


> Well, this thread is about GH rather than HCG
> 
> When using HCG, I prefer to do it throughout the cycle
> 
> Personally I think 2500iu is too high of a dose in one go. I'd rather split it into several 500iu shots throughout the week.


ohh my bad, no means to hijack, misread hgh as hcg 

thanks for advice anyway


----------

