# are my kcals too high?



## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hey guys currently 190lbs 14%bf atthe moment. iam at begining of cycle

500mg test E - 10 wks

250mg tren E - 10 wks

25mcg t3 - 10 wks

and for the first 3 weeks iam running clen at 40/80/80 to drop some bf% before test and tren kick in.

my worry is im going to be eating too much, i ave a lowish carb high fat and protien

lke this p 300 f 280 c150 ( c 200 on training days )

this = to kcals 4300 on rest days - 4500 on training days.

that is high kcals but i figure im on cycle i want to maximise gains hence the high kcls, but hope to drop a % or two while on the tren too hence the lowis carbs

*carbs make me very bloaty


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

300g protien, 280 carbs and 150 fat is 3,670 cals mate. On your training days you are taking in 3,350.

I would lower this if you wanted to drop body fat based on your stats. Drop the fats to 100g and this should help. Once you`ve dropped the fat you want take the cals slightly higher near the end of the course


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Massive, explain how you get that to equal 3670!

1g Protein = 4kcal

1g Carbohydrates = 4kcal

1g Fat = 9kcal

That make, in my book = (300x 4)+(150 x 4)+(280 x 9) = 4320kcal


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Re read. Cannot see where I misinterpreted it?

Edit...I agree now massive is right based off HIS calculations for P,C,F, but they are not the same values as the OP. He got C and F mixed round.



> lke this p 300 f 280 c150 ( c 200 on training days )


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

280g fat that's ALOT


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

my main aim is to grow on this cycle, i havent enough mass, but was hopeing the bf% may go down abit to with the tren being in there.

my thought was, because i react badly to carbs (dont know why but carbs just bloat me and i get fat quickly on them) i would drop the carbs right down, and up the fats. so that my kcals were high enough to grow but and my limited carb intake is kept around training times to limit fat gain. i also do 4 x45min fasted cardio per week aswell as my lifting 4 times per week,

i am on the second week now and have dropped 2 lbs but i am on 50mg t3 and 40/80/80 clen for the first 3 weeks so expected to loose water etc for first 3 wks.

just worried i get fat on high kcals, but wont gain on lower kcals,


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

exactly that was my only worry of doing a cycle mate.. get fat on high calories and grow but won't grow on low calories .. but i think i'll just eat clean and grow then worry about fat after couple of growing cycles .. at the end of the day as long as you don't have hanging belly is ok then cut up proper once you got enough mass to show for. that's my aim for now .. i found out no point of having abz and being skinny :S


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah, if i can find it, i will give you a link to me when i quickly rushed to get abs out for a hol and shrunk to 10st in 4 weeks not cool. so i want to get bigger, im just hoping with my limited carb intake and morning cardio, i shouldnt get fatter, if i can get more muscle mass and not gain much fat then my bf% in turn shuld be lowered.

i suppose i could just keep an eye on my bf levels if i look like im getting fatter then lower the kcals, ah what to do ? lol


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Warren, to me your calorie intake is far too high.

A basic calculation shows that roughly 4300 calories is enough to sustain a bodyweight of 140kg (308lbs), taking into account a relatively high activity level for training.

As your currently about 86 kg, then this is just excessive. Ill put it out there, but willing to be corrected, but you will get fat on that many kcal.

You should adjust your diet accordingly, with small increments, and hit each target weight.

Can I ask how you came to those figured for protein, carbohydrates and fat?


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah mate no worries, always willing to take help.

in all honesty mate, i just ate clean and healthy with lowerd carbs. then decided to count them up , thats what it came to when i did write it up. the funny thing is im not gaining on them at the moment but i think that is because im on the t3 and clen right now.

ill post my full diet now


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

10am - cardio

11am - shake + 15ml olive oil

11.30am - 50g weetabix, 25g almonds, 25g sultanas, 250ml milk

1pm - weights

2.15pm - shake, cornflour 60g

3.30pm - 130g tuna, 50g mayo, 300g potato

7.30pm - shake + 15 m olive oil

11 pm - 300g meat, 30g olive oil, 75g cheese,

just before sleep - 50g peanut butter.

* the shake is divided into the 3 during the day but conssists of 500ml eggs ( ~10 eggs) 500ml milk, and 80g protien


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

I havent calculated the individual macros of those foods, but that is less than I eat, and no where near 4300 odd kcal???

Do you have it all broken down for each individual food item and respective macros?


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

i had it on a spread sheet, and worked it owt from what was wrte on the nut info, alot of my kcals come from the olive oil, mayo, and also the 10 eggs.

this is why i like high fat diets as i have nt got the stomach for large ammounts of food so the fats ake up for kcals.

100g carbs ( which would bloat me big style in one go lol) = 400kcals

where as i get like 350kcals from my mayo alone.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

could you post a screen shot of the spread sheet, I'd like to see it. Just to me, it doesnt add up. But im willing to be proved wrong.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

im just on way out but will be back in a coupe hours, ill post it up when i get in , no worries, if im wrong then id like to know, so i cqan correct it cheers bud


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

how do i post a screen shot , i have pressed print screen but then how do i get it on here?


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hope this worked


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

tried again, ok works just have to double click it to enlarge


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

OK mate if I can offer you the benefit of my experience as I imagine I have a similar body type to you and can hopefully give you some relevant advice.

Firstly it's taken me a couple of years to truly figure out what my body responds to, and I'm still working on it tbh, but I think you're going a bit overboard with the fat and the cals. My first cycle I thought "I've got to make the most of this" so I ate like a fcuking horse - gained a good amount of muscle but plenty of fat too. The second cycle was completely different when I realised that steroids aren't a miracle worker and will not allow me to get away with fcuk loads of food.

I've been drawing my inspiration recently from Evan Centopani as he's perhaps the only endo-medo IFBB pro, and thus his diet tips are more relevant to people with sub-par metabolisms and carb tolerance. If you check out his thread on MD you'll see that just after he won his pro card he was only taking in around 150g carbs at the start of his off season and would never go above 300g, even at his peak. He was probs around 260lbs at the time too.

His macro ratio is usually at a 1:1:1 ratio, so for example 300g carbs, 300g protein and 150g fat (more or less). Because he always used to diet on keto, his off season diet would merely be his precontest diet with carbs added; fat and protein remain static. Carbs are only used to manipulate insulin and put the body in an anabolic state and are thus the only difference between off season and precontest.

I've been experimenting recently. I'm upping my cals tomorrow but I'll be upping the fat slightly instead of the carbs, cos I'm currently taking in 35g carbs per meal. Ratio now will be 210/300/160 (plus a PWO shake on training days), so fairly off the 1:1:1 ratio, but I'd rather err on the side of caution as I certainly don't feel lacking in energy so I doubt extra carbs will help yet.

I certainly don't think you should jump right into 4300 cals. I'd suggest to make things simple going for maybe 35/50/20-25 per meal and forget the calories. If you think you need more food then up the carbs and fat slightly, but do it slowly so you can track progress. IMO focus on the macros and ignore the calories and the scales cos you'll give yourself a headache.

To give you an idea of my current diet, it's:

Meal 1

30g protein powder

5 whole eggs

1 multigrain bagel (buttered)

Meal 2

50g oats

50g protein powder

40g peanut butter

Meal 3

50g pasta

200g chicken breast

40g peanut butter

Meal 4

Same as meal 3

Train

Cardio

PWO

45g dextrose

30g whey

Meal 5

280g turkey mince (drained, blotted)

25g cashews

100g rye bread

Ketchup

Meal 6

250g quark

Pack of oat biscuits/ 50g grape nuts

40g peanut butter

Like I said each meal is 35/50/25. Metabolisms been raging on this, I've leaned out considerably in a few days and I'm just cruising atm so it's working well. Don't overdo it with the food just cos you're on cycle; you'll regret it if you do


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

thanks for the reply mate, i got weighed this morning and put 1lbs on even though im on clen and t3 i am leaner however. altough his is good im sure when i come off the t3 and clen next week , without the t3 and clen to help with extra fat i will no doubt put on far to much fat.so i will revise the diet, and drop the fats down to about 220, as for carbs 120-200 is plenty fr me i have plenty of energy bordering n hyper most of the time but thats more my personallity lol.

if i feel im not gaining ill up then sligtly, or gaining to much fat then ill drop them.

i do cardio fasted 4 times per week so this shoud allow me to eat a bit more without the fat gain.

thanks


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

just thought id add, i have just input my numbers the formulea on a the sticky ' formulating diet for beginners' and came out with 4530kcals per day for my intake lol, crazy. im not going that high but ill see how i go anyway


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> just thought id add, i have just input my numbers the formulea on a the sticky ' formulating diet for beginners' and came out with 4530kcals per day for my intake lol, crazy. im not going that high but ill see how i go anyway


That's probably way too much for an endo. IMO the best way to sort out your off season diet is you write out a keto plan that you'd follow pre-contest, then just add sufficient carbs to it to manipulate your insulin so you can grow. I'm not too comfortable taking my carbs past 250/210 (training/non-training) yet so I'll up my fats before anything else. 220g fat is a lot for your size though mate and far from necessary IMO. I'd prefer to start off on pro/fat for 6 meals (50/20 or something), then add 35g carbs to brekkie and PWO and see how you get on. Then add 35g carbs to meal 2 and see how you get on etc. Do this until you're gaining muscle and staying lean. That's what my experience has so far taught me.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

My thoughts mirror exactly what alastttair above has said. That is far, far too many calories for you. You will no doubt end up gaining weight, but alot of it will be fat. Unneccesary in my opinion.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

its so much conflickting info and read so many things that i over think things so much , cant help it lol the way i am. my lifts are going up every week even with only 150g of carbs in me. i may drop the fats down a bit but i have a weird body lol,

i seem to put on fat easy with carbs, but not with high kcals i really get confused with my own body

i think ill just lower them all and see what happens, and work by ear.

i have tried all sorts in the past, and either didnt grow or got too fat. when i was on mod carbs, mod fats i got fat, same on high carb low fat, so seems low carb high fat is the next to try. only problem is times where i have lowerd my kcals i just didnt grow lol


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> its so much conflickting info and read so many things that i over think things so much , cant help it lol the way i am. my lifts are going up every week even with only 150g of carbs in me. i may drop the fats down a bit but i have a weird body lol,
> 
> i seem to put on fat easy with carbs, but not with high kcals i really get confused with my own body
> 
> ...


It takes years to work out how you individually respond to various tweaks mate. I've been fine-tuning it for a couple of years now and still find that I'm doing something wrong. For someone with your body type, I'd recommend starting off with a static protein level (say 300g), a static fat level (say 150g) and as few carbs as possible to train and grow optimally while staying lean. See how you get on with just 45g carbs PWO. Try that for a few days - you'll probs find you need more food, so add some starchy carbs to breaky. Try that for a few days, then add more as necessary. If you make little changes and keep a note of it you'll know what's working and what isn't. I've given you all the advice I can and I'll just be repeating myself if I carry on. Like prodiver says though, you only need enough carbs for daily living and your intense training. Like I say, start off with the minimum, then add small amounts to see how you respond. Job done.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

thanks mate , thats what ill do, ill have 50g after am cardio as my body will then be craving food, that is also my pre wo meal too, then ill have my tuna and potato after the gym. the rest will be fats and protien, i wont be able to tell 100% untill after this week coming when i drop the clen and t3.

ill updat the thanks alot


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Warren, you have asked the question 'are my kcals too high' in the hope of receiving some advice. A number of people have replied with their thoughts, which happen to mirror each other. Yet, despite all this you are going to carry on regardless?? Silly in my opinion


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

Adam_W said:


> Warren, you have asked the question 'are my kcals too high' in the hope of receiving some advice. A number of people have replied with their thoughts, which happen to mirror each other. Yet, despite all this you are going to carry on regardless?? Silly in my opinion


no mate, maybee i didnt word it correctly, i meant i will lower the kcals by droping fat down, but do what allister suggested by also starting off with carbs very low and alter from there.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Sorry Warren, didnt see your reply to Alastairs post, just before my previous one. Your earlier post was misleading though!

Let us know your progress, will be interesting to see how you get on.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hey guys, well i have been on 150 ish carbs and hitting aound 3700kcals and iv dropped weight lol, but i am on clen and t3 and i am looking leaner. but the tren and test should be kicking in i can feel some brilliant strength gains in the gym so assumeing it is kicking in.

i have decided to take the advice , i started low seen how it went and think i will up kcals and carbs, so ill up carbs to 200 and kcals to 3800kcals.

im stopping the clen tomorow and lowering the t3 to 25mcg ass i feel the test and tren have kicked in now.


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