# My 3 Day Feedback On Insulin & Questions



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey all,

Been on insulin for 3 days now and feel fine though I have some major questions as my body doesn't seem to be sensitive to insulin at all.

This is basically what I've done over the past 3 days...

Monday



18:00 - 2 slices of Burgen bread toasted, 50g Whey


19:30 - 4iu insulin pre-workout, 12.5g Vitargo, 12.5g EEA, 12.5g Creatine


During workout, sip on - 12.5g Vitargo, 12.5g EEA, 12.5g Creatine


Post-workout - 50g Whey, 25g Oats


Evening meal - 2 large plain chicken breast pieces, salad


Before bed - 250g Quark, 50g Casein


Tuesday



18:00 - 2 slices of Burgen bread toasted, 50g Whey


19:30 - 6iu insulin pre-workout, 12.5g Vitargo, 12.5g EEA, 12.5g Creatine


During workout, sip on - 12.5g Vitargo, 12.5g EEA, 12.5g Creatine


Post-workout - 50g Whey, 25g Oats


Evening meal - 2 large plain chicken breast pieces, salad


Before bed - 250g Quark, 50g Casein


Wednesday



18:00 - 2 slices of Burgen bread toasted, 50g Whey


19:30 - 8iu insulin pre-workout, 12.5g Vitargo, 12.5g Whey, 12.5g Creatine


During workout, sip on - 12.5g Vitargo, 12.5g Whey, 12.5g Creatine


Post-workout - 50g Whey


Evening meal - 2 large plain chicken breast pieces, salad


Before bed - 250g Quark, 50g Casein


As you can tell, my carb intake around my insulin timings is quite low but I feel absolutely fine? How can my body be getting away with such little carbs?

Today I even dropped the 25g of Oats I normally have post-workout but no signs of hypo at all. My workouts have been great and I literally have nothing to complain about.

*The questions*


Is it normal for certain individuals to require f*ck all carbs when using insulin?

I'm a little confused now as do I stay low carb whilst using insulin as this allows me to keep unnecessary fat gains off? It's pretty evident I'm coping fine at the moment.

I've been using Metformin for over a year now. Can this be the reason to why I'm not sensitive to insulin?


May I add...


I'm also using 250mg of DNP EOD

Besides the carbs mentioned above, the only other time I consume carbs in the day is at 08:30 when I have Oats for breakfast.

I will be using 10iu tomorrow with the same amount of carbs today and see how I feel. If I feel fine, I'll be sticking to 10iu's and not using anymore.


I hope someone can shed some light on this...


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## mark67 (Apr 14, 2010)

Metformin increases sensetivity to insulin i take it for 4 weeks then go back on slin for 4weeks


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

That's what I'll b doing as well from now on. Still don't understand how I'm not going hypo and passing out in the gym though :lol:


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## fletcher1 (Jun 14, 2012)

test your insulin by not consuming carbs and seeing if u go hypo, i may get flamed for saying this but if your at home with a decent sugar suply at hand hypo is easily rectified??

at least u can then say its not your insulin thats the problem, the slowly adjust the carbs u consume to where u need them to be

Fletch


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I highly doubt it's a problem with my insulin as I got it directly from the pharmacy :whistling:

I'm unsure on how to adjust my carbs as; do I stay low carb and use insulin or do I bump up my carbs and use it. The reason I ask this is because I don't know whether I'll yield any results by using insulin with a low carb intake. On the other hand I want to keep fat gains as low as possible.

If someone can answer that for me it would be great :thumb:


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## RascaL18 (Nov 13, 2008)

You got a BG meter?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

RascaL18 said:


> You got a BG meter?


No I haven't mate but I can get one.


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## RascaL18 (Nov 13, 2008)

Get one and see what's goin on


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## fletcher1 (Jun 14, 2012)

RascaL18 said:


> Get one and see what's goin on


Good advice


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Will do lads. Thanks for the advice.

Have any of you fellas come across any other people who use insulin with minimal carbs without any issues?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Sounds like your slin could possibly be fu*ked, have u tested bg to see what's happening In your blood?

Slin needs to be kept in the fridge.

And no its not normal for people to take slin and not need carbs. studies show a low tolerance to slin is best for long term health. And why people use metiform to get sensitivity down.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Sounds like your slin could possibly be fu*ked, have u tested bg to see what's happening In your blood?
> 
> Slin needs to be kept in the fridge.


The chances of the slin' being f*cked is very very low mate. I picked up a box of Novarapid from a high street pharmacy. It was refrigerated but the

instructions state that once you start using it, do not put back into the fridge, but instead keep in a cool, dry place.

Haven't test BG yet but will do this week.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> The chances of the slin' being f*cked is very very low mate. I picked up a box of Novarapid from a high street pharmacy. It was refrigerated but the
> 
> instructions state that once you start using it, do not put back into the fridge, but instead keep in a cool, dry place.
> 
> Haven't test BG yet but will do this week.


In that case I'd defo say your slin is g2g then, I'd have a shot and monitor bloods as the guy above sed, keep carbs low see how your body reacts.

I think everyone has there own tolorances from there lifestyle and food intake. But you do seem to have a tolorance to it. I'd defo look into metiform.

You realy want to get your tolorance close to the guideline 1iu per kg of bw

and

10g carb per 1iu.

Imo


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

If you have a high tolorance and can use big doses of slin with little carbs then the slin isn't being as effective as it should,

if one guy cant take 50g carbs with 20iu and another guy can only take 5iu with 50g carbs. The lower more sensitive guy is ulitlising the slin far better, big does with low carb intake need there sensitivity to increase to make there use more effective.

Jmo I'm no expert just my take on it, less should be better?

You don't realy want floods of insulin in you when its doing very little. Slin use can lower the tolorance further depending on doses and duration of use.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

1 think I can't understand atm is how if a guy tests his morning bg reading and its fine, his bloods thru day and every day are fine but when he injects 10-20-30iu fast slin with little carbs his bg reading is still fine?

Does this mean he has a naturally high slin release? So he can handle bigger doses?

If you have a low tolorance to slin to start with then your body must produce more since there is a low tolorance to start with? Other wise you would have high bg problems from large carb intakes right?????


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> In that case I'd defo say your slin is g2g then, I'd have a shot and monitor bloods as the guy above sed, keep carbs low see how your body reacts.
> 
> I think everyone has there own tolorances from there lifestyle and food intake. But you do seem to have a tolorance to it. I'd defo look into metiform.
> 
> ...


Could it be that I've been on a low carb, high protein diet for over a year mate? I rarely have cheat meals at all and my carb intake on a daily basis is always sub 150g.

If I can use 10iu of slin' with only 25g Vitargo + 25g of Whey + 25g Creatine, should I carry on with this? Most importantly, will I see any gains?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Another question I have is that I know fats must not be consumed around 'slin timing, but if I'm using 'slin at 19:30, can I consumer fats earlier on in the day such as the afternoon?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> Could it be that I've been on a low carb, high protein diet for over a year mate? I rarely have cheat meals at all and my carb intake on a daily basis is always sub 150g.
> 
> If I can use 10iu of slin' with only 25g Vitargo + 25g of Whey + 25g Creatine, should I carry on with this? Most importantly, will I see any gains?


im not sure tbh mate, probably best someone similar to you to comment, im over senstive if anything. i need way over the 10g per 1iu or my bg is droping to far. there is guys on here running 15-20iu fast slin as iv seen the odd post from them but cant think which members ther are.

maybe a slow slin morning daily dose then fast slin ontop will suit you, i think @ausbuilt@ runs slow and fast, he could offer better help than me, im still new and learning for my own slin use atm.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> Another question I have is that I know fats must not be consumed around 'slin timing, but if I'm using 'slin at 19:30, can I consumer fats earlier on in the day such as the afternoon?


yeh that sounds fine dude.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> yeh that sounds fine dude.


Cheers for the advice mate. I'm waiting for @ausbuilt to wake up myself and share his knowledge about this subject lol.

By the way, what's your dietary fat and carb intake through the day whilst using 'slin?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

if you fancied a lil experiment you could try this, its a test for type 2 diabetes but still it has the normal ranges and will give you an idea if your natty slin release and tolorace is fine

##

Normal blood values for a 75-gram oral glucose tolerance test used to check for type 2 diabetes in those who are not pregnant:

........................................................./BG monitor reading

•Fasting: 60 -100 mg/dL......................../3.3-5.5

•1 hour: less than 200 mg/dL................./11

•2 hours: less than 140 mg/dL.............../7.8

Note: mg/dL = milligrams per deciliter....

*1mmol/L =18mg/dl*

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003466.htm

##

*reading info*

Normal value ranges may vary slightly among different laboratories. Many factors affect a person's blood sugar level. A body's homeostatic mechanism, when operating normally, restores the blood sugar level to a narrow range of about 4.4 to 6.1 mmol/L (82 to 110 mg/dL) (as measured by a fasting blood glucose test).[9]

*Despite widely variable intervals between meals or the occasional consumption of meals with a substantial carbohydrate load, human blood glucose levels tend to remain within the normal range. However, shortly after eating, the blood glucose level may rise, in non-diabetics, temporarily up to 7.8 mmol/L (140 mg/dL) or a bit more.* The American Diabetes Association recommends a post-meal glucose level of less than 10 mmol/L (180 mg/dL) and a fasting plasma glucose of 5 to 7.2 mmol/L (90-130 mg/dL).[10]

The actual amount of glucose in the blood and body fluids is very small. In a healthy adult male of 75 kg with a blood volume of 5 liters, a blood glucose level of 5.5 mmol/L (100 mg/dL) amounts to 5 grams, slightly less than two typical American restaurant sugar packets for coffee or tea.[11] Part of the reason why this amount is so small is that, to maintain an influx of glucose into cells, enzymes modify glucose by adding phosphate or other groups to it

*## converting usits from the test to BG monitor readings*

The international standard way of measuring blood glucose levels are in terms of a molar concentration, measured in mmol/L (millimoles per litre; or millimolar, abbreviated mM). In the United States, mass concentration is measured in mg/dL (milligrams per decilitre).[8]

Since the molecular weight of glucose C6H12O6 is about 180 g/mol, for the measurement of glucose, the difference between the two scales is a factor of 18,* so that 1 mmol/L of glucose is equivalent to 18 mg/dL*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_sugar#Units

##


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> Cheers for the advice mate. I'm waiting for @ausbuilt to wake up myself and share his knowledge about this subject lol.
> 
> By the way, what's your dietary fat and carb intake through the day whilst using 'slin?


i dont monitor my fat but my carb is very high, as im bulking its probably overly high tbh. i use smalle doses post meals now, ghrp6 pre meals and 2-3iu novo post meals x4 ed. i dont get on with bigger doses i just cant tolerate it. 5iu with 200g carbs was as high as i went, it was the inisial spike that wud fuk me, if i had enough carbs to get over it id be fine, if not then id feel like **** for about an hour or so. so id rather have a meal and small dose slin post meal then 5iu and 170+carbs.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

stone14 said:


> if you fancied a lil experiment you could try this, its a test for type 2 diabetes but still it has the normal ranges and will give you an idea if your natty slin release and tolorace is fine
> 
> ##
> 
> ...


so readings above those listed would show there is insulin resistance problems and gb is going to high.

##

Higher-than-normal levels of glucose may mean you have prediabetes, diabetes, gestational diabetes or cushing syndrome.

Between 140 - 200 mg/dL is called impaired glucose tolerance. Your doctor may call this "prediabetes." It means you are at increased risk for developing diabetes.

A glucose level of 200 mg/dL or higher is a sign of diabetes.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003466.htm

##

i dont mean to scare you with this part just posting what the link says lol.

it just seems like a simple test for those who handle high slin doses with minimal carb intake to try out.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> i dont monitor my fat but my carb is very high, as im bulking its probably overly high tbh. i use smalle doses post meals now, ghrp6 pre meals and 2-3iu novo post meals x4 ed. i dont get on with bigger doses i just cant tolerate it. 5iu with 200g carbs was as high as i went, it was the inisial spike that wud fuk me, if i had enough carbs to get over it id be fine, if not then id feel like **** for about an hour or so. so id rather have a meal and small dose slin post meal then 5iu and 170+carbs.


Do you consume a lot of healthy fats then mate? I was under the impression that eating any type of fats whilst on slin' means an individual would store more fat on their frame.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> if you fancied a lil experiment you could try this, its a test for type 2 diabetes but still it has the normal ranges and will give you an idea if your natty slin release and tolorace is fine
> 
> ##
> 
> ...


I feel quite freaked out reading that :lol:


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I wouldn't worry, was just an idea mate. I don't have much of an understanding of slin tbh other than the ovious basic's, I just can't understand how someone can have natty and normal slin tolorance and at the same time inj big slin doses with little carbs and still have normal bg readings, being that inj slin and natty slin has the same potency... Maybe its just bacause I can't handle much, there is guys on 50iu ed and fine.

That said, oviously what's a big dose to me isn't a big dose to others, and the normal range must be a lot wider than I'm thinking. Must be more to it than simply 'x' slin for 'x' carbs in non-diabetics.

The 10g carb per 1iu slin, 1iu per 10kg of bw as being the center of the normal range, but stretched out to low-and-high tolorance's must be a pritty wide range before its a problem.

You would think that there would be more info available than just 10g carb per 1iu for level blood cons, or maybe there is and I just havnt come across it yet.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> I wouldn't worry, was just an idea mate. I don't have much of an understanding of slin tbh other than the ovious basic's, I just can't understand how someone can have natty and normal slin tolorance and at the same time inj big slin doses with little carbs and still have normal bg readings, being that inj slin and natty slin has the same potency... Maybe its just bacause I can't handle much, there is guys on 50iu ed and fine.
> 
> That said, oviously what's a big dose to me isn't a big dose to others, and the normal range must be a lot wider than I'm thinking. Must be more to it than simply 'x' slin for 'x' carbs in non-diabetics.
> 
> ...


I heavily researched this theory about 10g per iu and discovered that most people were using this as a safe guideline. I noticed a lot of people eventually tapered down their

carb intake and I saw people go as low as 5g per iu. If I'm not mistaken I'm sure @ausbuilt uses 6g per iu.

My tolerance seems to be stupidly low as yesterday I had 3.2g of carbs per iu.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I have another question.

I've heard Novarapid is active for roughly 4 hours. This means I have to control and watch what I eat post 'slin usage. But what about the foods I may have eaten 1-4 hours pre-slin? Would they have any effects in terms of what nutrients are used when injecting exogenous 'slin?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> I have another question.
> 
> I've heard Novarapid is active for roughly 4 hours. This means I have to control and watch what I eat post 'slin usage. But what about the foods I may have eaten 1-4 hours pre-slin? Would they have any effects in terms of what nutrients are used when injecting exogenous 'slin?


Not sure exactly since any food you've consummed prior will have caused the nessesary natty slin release with you being a non-diabetic.

But any carbs/food still to be digested will add to youe bg when you inj slin as its yet to be digested, so depends what your eating prior and what it is. Ie if you have a large amount of slow carbs then they can feed you into year slin shot if its yet to be digested and absorbed.

I'd say 1-2 hours prior but doubt 3+hours will make an effect with the initil spike from novo? Could be wrong tho.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Not sure exactly since any food you've consummed prior will have caused the nessesary natty slin release with you being a non-diabetic.
> 
> But any carbs/food still to be digested will add to youe bg when you inj slin as its yet to be digested, so depends what your eating prior and what it is. Ie if you have a large amount of slow carbs then they can feed you into year slin shot if its yet to be digested and absorbed.
> 
> I'd say 1-2 hours prior but doubt 3+hours will make an effect with the initil spike from novo? Could be wrong tho.


Well considering I have 2 slices of Burgen bread 60-90 minutes prior to my workout, I guess the bread must be drip feeding me post-insulin during my workout.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> Well considering I have 2 slices of Burgen bread 60-90 minutes prior to my workout, I guess the bread must be drip feeding me post-insulin during my workout.


Yeh I'd say so, burgen is low gi, good fats (from there seeds) and high fibre, so will have a slow digestion rate. I think there around 125cal per slice.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Looks like I'm not super-human at all. Here's what I did tonight...

18:00 - 2 slices of Burgen bread toasted, 50g Whey

20:00 - 10iu insulin, 12.5g Vitargo, 25g Whey, 12.5g Creatine

Intra-workout - 12.5g Vitargo, 25g Whey, 12.5g Creatine

21:30 - 50g Whey

During my workout I felt quite tired and lethargic today and also developed a headache. I could feel slight signs of hypo but sipping on my intra drink kept me from going completely hypo. At the end of my workout the headache was gone but after my post-workout shake when I began driving back home, the headache developed again and I still have it. I still feel ever so mildly hypo now but it's nothing major.

At least this shows that using 10iu pre-workout with only 25g of carbs is about the most I can handle whilst having to suffer mild signs of hypo. When using 8iu's last night I was completely fine as mentioned earlier on in this thread.

The question now is, do I opt for using...

8iu with 25g Vitargo, 50g Whey, 25g Creatine (Spread pre and intra workout)

or do I do

10iu with 50g Vitargo, 50g Whey, 25g Creatine (Spread pre and intra workout)

Opinions please


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I get headaches also this is the 1st sign of hypo for me its always behind my right eye.

If I were you i would either go for 8iu or 10iu and more carbs, you don't want to be boarderline hypo, you need to keep bg in the normal range.

Also just a thought, if you drop carbs down to the bare minimum you could be reducing the over all benifit of taking the slin. Ie 50g carbs pushed into your muscles will help recovery a lot more than 25g carbs. I think guys only go borderline carbs because they need to to try and control the fat, if you bulking then there's no reason to go to your bare minimum is there?

You want as much nutes in your muscles as possible, as that the purpose of using slin isn't it? I think 10iu is a big dose to use if your only going to benifit from 25g carbs...

I'm just thinking why use slin if your going to minimise its storage the reason your using it is to increase storage in the muscles for better recovery and gain, but then you give it minimal nutes. If you give it 25g carbs its only going to store 25g carbs. I don't think you can expect to grow off a 10iu shot with only 25g carbs??? Its like max peds with minimal macros...

Its like filling your 60l petrol tank up just to drive half a mile. The fuel is there to progress further but you didn't use it???


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> I get headaches also this is the 1st sign of hypo for me. If I were you i would either go for 8iu or 10iu and more carbs, you don't want to be boarderline hypo, you need to keep bg in the normal range.
> 
> Also just a thought, if you drop carbs down to the bare minimum you could be reducing the vover all benifit of taking the slin. Ie 50g carbs pushing into your muscles will help recovery a lot more than 25g carbs. I think guys only go borderline carbs because they need to to try and control the fat, if you bulking then there's no reason to go to your bare minimum is there? You want as much nutes in your muscles as possible, as that the purpose of using slin isn't it? I think 10iu is a big dose to use if your only going to benifit from 25g carbs...


Cheers for your useful feedback @stone14

As I was borderline hypo today when using 25g of carbs, I think I'll be fine using 10iu with 50g of carbs. However, I'm contemplating mixing fast and slow carbs to my intra-workout shake. How does this looks to you mate?

Pre-workout - 10iu insulin, 25g Vitargo, 25g Whey, 25g Creatine

Intra-workout - 25g Vitargo, 25g Oats, 25g Whey, 25g Creatine

Post-workout - 50g Whey

I think Ausbuilt also uses a blend of fast and slow carbs to a ratio of 60/40 from what I remember. He however does not use insulin pre-workout lol.

My aim is to add on as much lean muscle to my frame as possible whilst keeping fat gains to a minimum. Do you still think using 10iu with 50g of carbs is the right approach for me? Bare in mind I also use 250mg of DNP EOD.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I remember aus saying something about getting less hypo while using dnp with slin - maybe this is the cause


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Contest said:


> Cheers for your useful feedback @stone14
> 
> As I was borderline hypo today when using 25g of carbs, I think I'll be fine using 10iu with 50g of carbs. However, I'm contemplating mixing fast and slow carbs to my intra-workout shake. How does this looks to you mate?
> 
> ...


Yeh I'd say it looks fine dude, aslong as your bg is in normal range that's all that matters, as for max lean gains I'm still not convinced you will benifit from all the slin on lower end carbs, iv not got enough experience to say if tour carbs are enough, your having 100g protein total that's spot on defo plenty. I'd just go from here use that see how you gain then change it as you need to if the results aren't satisfiying.

but are you using slin at other times ie 10iux3 ed or just pre wo?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Fatstuff said:


> I remember aus saying something about getting less hypo while using dnp with slin - maybe this is the cause


Yeh I can't remember off the top of my head now but dnp blunts slin effectivness in some way, but my minds gone blank on that one. Guys using slin+dnp notice they can use more slin with less carbs than usual.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Yeh I'd say it looks fine dude, aslong as your bg is in normal range that's all that matters, as for max lean gains I'm still not convinced you will benifit from all the slin on lower end carbs, iv not got enough experience to say if tour carbs are enough, your having 100g protein total that's spot on defo plenty. I'd just go from here use that see how you gain then change it as you need to if the results aren't satisfiying.
> 
> but are you using slin at other times ie 10iux3 ed or just pre wo?


Only using it pre-worokout mate. It's true that DNP does blunt the effectiveness of insulin but I'm on a very low dose of 250mg eod.

I've also read that the pre-workout approach is good to also keep fat gains to minimum.


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