# Bulk or cat



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

hello guys,

i am 6' 1'' or 1.85cm

normally i want six-pack but it seems that i will not have it with cutting?
i went to gym 6 months ago.I was 81-82 kg or 178 lbs and then started to cut but probably i decreased my calorie intake to fast from 2300-2400 to 1800-1850 and then i started to lose weight.

now i am 75 kg but high fat proportion and i'm taking 1900 calorie per day. I am probably become skinny-fat and i feel so depressed. So what is your recommedation to overcome this situation? Bulk or cut?

But if i start bulking should i increase calorie gradually? or fast? please help

here some photos:

View attachment IMG_2634.JPG


View attachment IMG_2678.JPG


View attachment IMG_2679.JPG


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cat  .

Seriously though, if the process of trying to lose fat is making you feel depressed then I think you should definitely switch to focusing on gaining muscle for a while.

You say you went to the gym 6 months ago. I trust you mean that's when you first went to the gym and have been training all the time since then?


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Cago1355 said:


> and then started to cut but probably i decreased my calorie intake to fast from 2300-2400 to 1800-1850 and then i started to lose weight.


 That's what happens when you cut calories, you lose weight? What were you expecting to happen?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

What's your training routine? I don't think you are ''becoming'' skinny fat just you didn't have much muscle to start with. I'd recommend full body routines 2 to 3 times a week using big compound lifts. You don't need to do that many exercises and should be done in an hour. Train hard and get better at the lifts.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Cat  .
> 
> Seriously though, if the process of trying to lose fat is making you feel depressed then I think you should definitely switch to focusing on gaining muscle for a while.
> 
> You say you went to the gym 6 months ago. I trust you mean that's when you first went to the gym and have been training all the time since then?


 sorry for misunderstandings

i started to go to the gym 6 months ago and until now,i made a strict diet.Then i dropped 81 to 75.However;i'm 1.85 or 6' 1'' so it looks skinny. When i started to doing cut,i thought that i am going to have six-packs but;i stayed fatty so i can't decide now what should i do


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> What's your training routine? I don't think you are ''becoming'' skinny fat just you didn't have much muscle to start with. I'd recommend full body routines 2 to 3 times a week using big compound lifts. You don't need to do that many exercises and should be done in an hour. Train hard and get better at the lifts.


 Hello,

my training routine is 3-4 times in a week

i am doing full-body workouts

i have done it in an hour,and i am giving importance on progressive overload

the problem is i'm 75 but my body fat is not low so i can't see my packs.Therefore,i am afraid to become skinny-fat if i go down to 70 kg


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Hello,
> 
> my training routine is 3-4 times in a week
> 
> ...


 Stop thinking about 'skinny fat'. If you lost more fat you would look leaner and would have more abdominal definition.

As I said above though I would focus on gaining muscle since you are getting depressed thinking about fat loss.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Bulk without a doubt.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Cago1355 said:


> Hello,
> 
> my training routine is 3-4 times in a week
> 
> ...


 What have you lifts progressed from and to?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Robbie said:


> What have you lifts progressed from and to?


 not much,probably 10 kg

squat 40 ->70-75

My workouts

Front Squat 4 x12

Bulgarian Squat 3x15

Bench press 4x12

Shoulder press 4x12 superset with barbell row 4x12

Hammer curl 4x12

HIIT cardio 2 times in a week


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Stop thinking about 'skinny fat'. If you lost more fat you would look leaner and would have more abdominal definition.
> 
> As I said above though I would focus on gaining muscle since you are getting depressed thinking about fat loss.


 what if i lose more weight and become 72-71?

is it possible to look more defined like six-packs ?

cuz now i am 75 and probably %16-17 bf


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Cago1355 said:


> not much,probably 10 kg
> 
> squat 40 ->70-75
> 
> ...


 You do that every time? No back exercises?

find yourself a good beginners linear progress program


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> Hello,
> 
> my training routine is 3-4 times in a week
> 
> ...


 Your being unrealistic. You will not get your ideal body in 6 months. Focus on getting stronger on your lifts. When you are able to squat 100kg properly for reps you will have a lot more muscle on your body. Looking at your pictures I see not point to continue dieting. I would suggest maintaining your weight or very slowly increase it.

Stopped getting depressed about it. Get a log book or an app on your phone and record your workouts. You can then moniter your progression and it will help you to set targets. As long as you getting a few more reps or lifting a little more even if it's only a little bit then you will be moving forward towards your goals.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> what if i lose more weight and become 72-71?
> 
> is it possible to look more defined like six-packs ?
> 
> cuz now i am 75 and probably %16-17 bf


 Losing fat will reveal the muscle you already have. Do I think you'd like how you looked if you lost enough fat to see your abs? Probably not.

For training I'd suggest you try something like the following (but doing RDLs not SLDLs).

https://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Robbie said:


> You do that every time? No back exercises?
> 
> find yourself a good beginners linear progress program


 yeah many times i am following this structure with different movements but always full body

how about strong lifts? do you think it is good?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> Your being unrealistic. You will not get your ideal body in 6 months. Focus on getting stronger on your lifts. When you are able to squat 100kg properly for reps you will have a lot more muscle on your body. Looking at your pictures I see not point to continue dieting. I would suggest maintaining your weight or very slowly increase it.
> 
> Stopped getting depressed about it. Get a log book or an app on your phone and record your workouts. You can then moniter your progression and it will help you to set targets. As long as you getting a few more reps or lifting a little more even if it's only a little bit then you will be moving forward towards your goals.


 Lastly,

should i jump to the 2500(maintenance calorie) in 1 week from 1900 or gradually increase 50 calorie per week in 3 months ?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

You don't need to choose....... You can bulk and still have a cat.

My mate Dave has a cat and he's fat as fvck


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Lastly,
> 
> should i jump to the 2500(maintenance calorie) in 1 week from 1900 or gradually increase 50 calorie per week in 3 months ?


 Are you currently losing weight eating 1900 kcal per day? If so at what sort of rate?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Are you currently losing weight eating 1900 kcal per day? If so at what sort of rate?


 Yeah i am losing weight at 1900 cal

2 pounds per month


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I'd say bulk. Just getting a cat isn't going to satisfy you.


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## Sub97 (Dec 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> You don't need to choose....... You can bulk and still have a cat.
> 
> My mate Dave has a cat and he's fat as fvck


 I don't know why but I was pissing myself at work after reading this, for about 2 minutes!


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> yeah many times i am following this structure with different movements but always full body
> 
> how about strong lifts? do you think it is good?


 I've never really used a program as such. I've just picked exercises to train the whole body and tried to get better at them. A lot of people say strong lifts is good so worth a go. It's not really about what program you pick it's more how much effort you put in. As long as it's a sensible program with progression in mind it should work.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah i am losing weight at 1900 cal
> 
> 2 pounds per month


 I'd try something like increasing calories by 200 kcal for one week, another 200 kcal the following week and then assess from there. If you aren't slowly gaining weight increase by 100 kcal per week from there as needed.

Gaining weight with zero fat gain isn't realistic but equally you shouldn't be gaining loads of fat.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Sub97 said:


> I don't know why but I was pissing myself at work after reading this, for about 2 minutes!


 You're welcome lol


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Definitely bulk. You are sort of where I am atm but with hardly any real muscle. If you continue cutting you will likely end up looking emaciated and will still have a bit of a belly. "6 packs" are difficult to achieve for most.

I would cautiously suggest upping to 2500 for starters and providing your training is on point you should see progress. When you've filled out a bit you won't notice your belly so much. Make sure you keep on top of your cardio also.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

What level/duration of cardio?

Mate, you look like you just don't have a proper diet or training set up.

I'd say if you were to be "lean " you've got another 5kgs at least to lose. You look skinny because, well, you are. You won't look like you're muscular because you haven't developed any. It takes time. 6 months is nothing. You're learning.

I don't like your training layout either.

"Bulk" would just be an excuse for you to put more fat in to be honest.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> What level/duration of cardio?
> 
> Mate, you look like you just don't have a proper diet or training set up.
> 
> ...


 2 Times 20 min HIIT+fullbody workout + 1900 cal diet

So why did you tell like this? Can't i build muscle in bulk ?


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Cago1355 said:


> 2 Times 20 min HIIT+fullbody workout + 1900 cal diet
> 
> So why did you tell like this? Can't i build muscle in bulk ?


 Yes you can build muscle. But I don't think you are not a position to know how. YouTube and this forum will help. I still think you should focus on a bit more cardio and just a basic workout for a bit until you are actually "fit and strong". Just adding calories n to a routine that isn't working is a waste of time.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Yes you can build muscle. But I don't think you are not a position to know how. YouTube and this forum will help. I still think you should focus on a bit more cardio and just a basic workout for a bit until you are actually "fit and strong". Just adding calories n to a routine that isn't working is a waste of time.


 You told me that you have 5 kgs to lose? 70kgs is proper for me ?

Actually i know how to build muscle

the problem is that i do not know how to start


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Cago1355 said:


> Actually i know how to build muscle


 Not being rude, but you haven't managed to show that. Knowing how to and actually doing it are two different things.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Robbie said:


> Not being rude, but you haven't managed to show that. Knowing how to and actually doing it are two different things.


 So Please help me where to start


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Cago1355 said:


> You told me that you have 5 kgs to lose? 70kgs is proper for me ?
> 
> Actually i know how to build muscle
> 
> the problem is that i do not know how to start


 No offence buddy. But if you knew how to build muscle it would show.

Yes. I'd say you still have 5kg to lose of fat. If you want to "look" even slightly athletic.

You would start as you would continue.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Cago1355 said:


> So Please help me where to start


 I did.

The answer won't be any different from anyone else.

Just fix your diet. Do some heart rate increasing cardio and pick a workout routine that you can stick to for 3 ish months.

Assess from there.

Again. YouTube and this forum. All the info you'll ever need


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> No offence buddy. But if you knew how to build muscle it would show.
> 
> Yes. I'd say you still have 5kg to lose of fat. If you want to "look" even slightly athletic.
> 
> You would start as you would continue.





simonboyle said:


> I did.
> 
> The answer won't be any different from anyone else.
> 
> ...


 Last question is that i am 75 kg,so when i calculate that 1900 cal need for losing weight

so should i continue with 1900 cal or maintenance calorie?


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Well what's your maintenance?

What's the breakdown of those calories? Write it up. Per meal. Including pro/carb/fat and cals per meal.

Then we'll take it from there


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Well what's your maintenance?
> 
> What's the breakdown of those calories? Write it up. Per meal. Including pro/carb/fat and cals per meal.
> 
> Then we'll take it from there


 I am not sure about maintenance because for 3 months,i've been doing 1900 cal diet,so probably it has changed

but i am using the diet like this 1900 cal per day;

-130 gr protein

-80 gr fat

-rest carbs

Breakfast at 7 am

Oatmeal - 60 gr

4 Large eggs

10 gr nuts

20gr peanut butter

Lunch at 12:30

Grilled chicken or fish or meatballs(150-200 gr )

Yoghurt

Salad

Vegetable

*BEFORE TRAINING OATMEAL AND YOGHURT

TRAINING SESSION

Dinner at 9 pm

150-200 gr chicken

100 gr carb(brown rice)


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Why are you eating 150-200g of meat but you know how much protein your consuming? That will make a lot of difference... which is it?? And are those weights cooked or uncooked as again this will make a huge difference! Same with rice (also you can have white rice, brown rice isn't any better or worse for dieting)

also why so much fat? 80g is shed loads for cutting, aim for 25% of calories and that would be more like... thats 53g and plenty for health and nutrition reasons...

That way you can up your carbs and see if workouts get better with extra carbs, it's another 50g of carbs for a little reduction in fats

your quantitys are missing for most things and seemingly variable for meats??? That's not a strict diet you've written out there...


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

^this.

But I disagree with the comments about fats.

It's individual but that would be similar to what I would do.


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Stop what you're doing. Bulk and get strong with a strength program. You can't even squat your body weight after 6 months. That's ridiculous. 10 nuts, x grams of that... fk that. Stop overthinking your diet. Eat like a man and get your newbie gains that you clearly haven't gotten from bad training.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Have a read back through the thread as various people have offered you advice on what to do. Not everyone agrees as there is no 'right' answer but the main ideas are mostly similar.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Why are you eating 150-200g of meat but you know how much protein your consuming? That will make a lot of difference... which is it?? And are those weights cooked or uncooked as again this will make a huge difference! Same with rice (also you can have white rice, brown rice isn't any better or worse for dieting)
> 
> also why so much fat? 80g is shed loads for cutting, aim for 25% of calories and that would be more like... thats 53g and plenty for health and nutrition reasons...
> 
> ...


 Uncooked meat proportions

because i can reach easily to 120 gr protein per day with this diet

1.7 times bw is ok they said

what is Your recommondation?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Uncooked meat proportions
> 
> because i can reach easily to 120 gr protein per day with this diet
> 
> ...


 If that is body weight in kg that is fine when gaining weight. (A bit more when focusing on fat loss may be beneficial but it's less clear cut.)

Your training and total calories are more important than the exact amount of protein you eat - focus on these right now.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> If that is body weight in kg that is fine when gaining weight. (A bit more when focusing on fat loss may be beneficial but it's less clear cut.)
> 
> Your training and total calories are more important than the exact amount of protein you eat - focus on these right now.


 Ok i am going to do a 3-months program,and then gradually increase my calories to maintenance calorie from 1900

and then start stronglifts 5x5 to gain strength and weight


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Ok i am going to do a 3-months program,and then gradually increase my calories to maintenance calorie from 1900
> 
> and then start stronglifts 5x5 to gain strength and weight


 Depending what you mean by 'gradually' note that I gave you a specific calorie increase suggestion above.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Uncooked meat proportions
> 
> because i can reach easily to 120 gr protein per day with this diet
> 
> ...


 If you want to gain size I'd drop the fats down a touch to 60g, add in carbs then to 2300 calories (this should be about maintenence or just above if you've been losing at 1900) there's nowt to cut too, so I'd focus on adding some size at 2-3lb a month with a decent hard training regime and go from there

as above (ultrasonics post) up calories gradually and weigh yourself once a week at the same time or use the happy scale app to record it over time (I'm 40 and love a good app!)

what are the weights for all the other bits and i or someone else will check your diet to make sure there's no glaring mistakes... it's not hard to get something wrong and be 3-400 calories out (add cooked or uncooked to rice and stuff like that... I always use uncooked for rice as if you cook it longer it gets heavier... small difference but I figure if I'm gonna weigh it I might as well get it bang on)

your diet looks reasonable but as I said possibly a bit ott with the fats at the expense of carbs - carbs are fuel and replenish glycogen stores in muscle that workouts deplete which is why I don't skimp on them in a diet plan, but as also said everyone is different, some do better with higher fats, some higher carbs... try both and see If you feel any different either way


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> If you want to gain size I'd drop the fats down a touch to 60g, add in carbs then to 2300 calories (this should be about maintenence or just above if you've been losing at 1900) there's nowt to cut too, so I'd focus on adding some size at 2-3lb a month with a decent hard training regime and go from there
> 
> as above (ultrasonics post) up calories gradually and weigh yourself once a week at the same time or use the happy scale app to record it over time (I'm 40 and love a good app!)
> 
> ...


 What about exercise program?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> What about exercise program?


 As said above pick one you can stick to for three months and see what progress you make...

having done stronglifts... I wouldn't recommend it for mass, if you wanna put meat on your bones I'd do a push pull legs routine starting now and see how you grow!


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> As said above pick one you can stick to for three months and see what progress you make...
> 
> having done stronglifts... I wouldn't recommend it for mass, if you wanna put meat on your bones I'd do a push pull legs routine starting now and see how you grow!


 But is it proper to use beginner program?

because i Have been in the gym for 6 months


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

For now I'd personally suggest just focusing on total calories and protein. So long as you don't go out of your way to be really low fat or really low carb then whatever you do will be fine, and it doesn't need to be the same every day either.

Good training, appropriate calories and enough protein are by far the most important factors.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> But is it proper to use beginner program?
> 
> because i Have been in the gym for 6 months


 Use any method you like as long as it's something you can stick at and enjoy doing, stronglifts, push pull legs, upper lower, full body... Don't add to it or mess with the routine, just pick one and do it as it's laid out for mass and strength id do full body or push pull legs, personally I found stronglifts a bit lack lustre for adding mass although I probably didn't eat anywhere near enough while doing it!

youve been losing muscle and fat for 6 months, now you need to up your food game and add some muscle

in your initial post you said you can't find a six pack... you could but you'd have to drop more fat off your frame! But you have very little muscle to begin with so you'd look like a stick at 6'1, add some mass and then cut, but remember Rome wasn't built in a day!


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Use any method you like as long as it's something you can stick at and enjoy doing, stronglifts, push pull legs, upper lower, full body... Don't add to it or mess with the routine, just pick one and do it as it's laid out for mass and strength id do full body or push pull legs, personally I found stronglifts a bit lack lustre for adding mass although I probably didn't eat anywhere near enough while doing it!
> 
> youve been losing muscle and fat for 6 months, now you need to up your food game and add some muscle
> 
> in your initial post you said you can't find a six pack... you could but you'd have to drop more fat off your frame! But you have very little muscle to begin with so you'd look like a stick at 6'1, add some mass and then cut, but remember Rome wasn't built in a day!


 Great

thanks !

I will share the results


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

Cago1355 said:


> Great
> 
> thanks !
> 
> I will share the results


 So what did you decide to do?


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

simonboyle said:


> What level/duration of cardio?
> 
> Mate, you look like you just don't have a proper diet or training set up.
> 
> ...


 See guy is getting told two different things, to cut and bulk


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

B3NCH1 said:


> So what did you decide to do?


 1.I am going to increase calorie from 1950 to 2400-2500 scale in 3 weeks

2. 3 times in a week,this program



DUMBBELL BENCH PRESS

3

8,10,12

LAT PULLDOWN

3

8,10,12

OVERHEAD DUMBBELL PRESS

3

8,10,12

LEG PRESS

3

8,10,12

LYING LEG CURL

3

8,10,12

ROPE PRESSDOWN

3

8,10,12

BARBELL BICEPS CURL

3

8,10,12

STANDING CALF RAISE

3

8,10,12

CRUNCH

3

15




LEG PRESS

3

10,12,15

LEG EXTENSION

3

10,12,15

LYING LEG CURL

3

10,12,15

SEATED LEG CURL

3

10,12,15

STANDING CALF RAISE

3

10,12,15

SEATED CALF RAISE

3

10,12,15




BARBELL BENCH PRESS

3

10,12,15

DUMBBELL FLYE

3

10,12,15

BARBELL BENT-OVER ROW

3

10,12,15

LAT PULLDOWN

3

10,12,15

OVERHEAD DUMBBELL PRESS

3

10,12,15

DUMBBELL LATERAL RAISE

3

10,12,15

BARBELL BICEPS CURL

3

10,12,15

MACHINE PREACHER CURL

3

10,12,15

LYING EZ-BAR TRICEPS EXTENSION

3

10,12,15

ROPE PRESSDOWN

3

10,12,15

CRUNCH

3

15, 20


-What do you think?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

B3NCH1 said:


> See guy is getting told two different things, to cut and bulk


 So do you think he was wrong?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> 1.I am going to increase calorie from 1950 to 2400-2500 scale in 3 weeks
> 
> 2.
> 
> ...


 Where did you get that from?? Way too complex!! Doing more doesn't mean more gains or it's better...

stronglifts is as simple as it gets for strength

or for growth/hypertrophy pick one exercise for each body part and do 3x10 for each exercise, you don't need seated and standing calf raises for example, and if that's three days it's all over the shop!!

where did you get it from? Look up push pull legs or full body routine on google, and have a look for results from body building.com I think it is, should be a few simple layouts for that...


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> So do you think he was wrong?


 Opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one and now your going round in circles

what do you want to do?? Do you want to strip every last bit of fat until you get abs? Or add some mass to your frame?

it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's what you want!!!! Pick one and do it, but run your exercise plan past us first as the one you've found or written above is god awful! Too much crap and fluff that you don't need to be doing


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Where did you get that from?? Way too complex!! Doing more doesn't mean more gains or it's better...
> 
> stronglifts is as simple as it gets for strength
> 
> ...


 I took it from a popular bodybuilding magazine


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

B3NCH1 said:


> See guy is getting told two different things, to cut and bulk


 Actually he said he needs to have a proper training program and nutrition in place before doing anything further...


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> I took it from a popular bodybuilding magazine


 Really? that's not a starter routine in any way shape or form and is possibly the worst exercise routine I've ever seen...


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one and now your going round in circles
> 
> what do you want to do?? Do you want to strip every last bit of fat until you get abs? Or add some mass to your frame?
> 
> it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's what you want!!!! Pick one and do it, but run your exercise plan past us first as the one you've found or written above is god awful! Too much crap and fluff that you don't need to be doing


 Yeah the important point is my idea

however people told me that i don't have enough muscle.Therefore it is not possible to look muscular if i lose more fat and weight.So i think,i need to Cancel my abs idea at least for now and bulk


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Really? that's not a starter routine in any way shape or form and is possibly the worst exercise routine I've ever seen...


 https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/the-best-3-day-plan-work-out-less-get-more-ripped.html

what about this one if i want to go for bulk?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Really? that's not a starter routine in any way shape or form and is possibly the worst exercise routine I've ever seen...


 Chest/Triceps



Barbell Bench Press - 3 x 6 reps


Incline Dumbbell Press - 3 x 6 reps


Chest Dips - 3 x failure


Dumbbell Skull Crushers - 3 x 6 reps


Overhead Triceps Extension - 3 x 6 reps


Back/Biceps



Deadlifts - 3 x 6 reps


Pull-Ups - 3 x 6 reps


Pendlay Row - 3 x 6 reps


Barbell Curl - 3 x 6 reps


Dumbbell Hammer Curl - 3 x 6 reps


Shoulders/Legs



Barbell Military Press - 3 x 6 reps


Dumbbell Side Laterals - 3 x 6 reps


Barbell Squats - 3 x 6 reps


Leg Press - 3 x 6 reps


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Chest/Triceps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Again that's a split routine, more advanced than you are and would only hit body parts once a week if you train three days, for a three day week I'd pick a dead simple full body routine and train everything every couple of days, or if training four times a week do push pull legs and hit everything three times every 5-6 days or so

ignore the words next to a routine i.e. Bulk or cut, that has to do with diet not exercise, eat enough to find your maintenence, then push calories more and you'll find there's a band where you stay the same weight rather than an amount of calories, so maybe 2000-3000 calories, but I'd start and build them up slowly until you start to gain weight very gently and stick at that for a bit


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

A decent full body routine is

barbell bench 2x10

lateral raise 2x10

Pendley row 2x10

hammer curls 2x10

tricep overhead press 2x10

leg extension 2x10

hamstring curl 2x10

dead simple, 90 seconds rest and use a weight which is taxing on the last rep, if you feel comfy getting an extra rep add a little weight for next session


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

superdrol said:


> A decent full body routine is
> 
> barbell bench 2x10
> 
> ...


 I will add if I could squat I would over leg extensions... but it's my dodgy back which prevents this...


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> A decent full body routine is
> 
> barbell bench 2x10
> 
> ...


 Should i add squat or deadlift ?


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> But is it proper to use beginner program?
> 
> because i Have been in the gym for 6 months


 Don't take this the wrong way but you are a beginner. Anyway push/pull/legs can be used by anyone. The more simple routines are normally the best routines, there is less faffing about and more hard training.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Cago1355 said:


> Should i add squat or deadlift ?


 If it's a three day routine you could add squats one day and reads n another then run the routine as typed the third.

But again as said you're going to have to just pick something


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> Should i add squat or deadlift ?


 Read the 2nd article

http://www.naturalstrength.com/search/label/Bob Whelan - Maximum Strength?updated-max=2009-05-28T13:42:00-04:00&max-results=20&start=24&by-date=false


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

simonboyle said:


> If it's a three day routine you could add squats one day and reads n another then run the routine as typed the third.
> 
> But again as said you're going to have to just pick something


 That would actually be very nice I reckon and give the whole body a kicking each workout, nice!


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> That would actually be very nice I reckon and give the whole body a kicking each workout, nice!


 so the plan is:

squat 3x5

barbell bench 2x10

lateral raise 2x10

Pendley row 2x10

hammer curls 2x10

tricep overhead press 2x10

leg extension 2x10

hamstring curl 2x10

how is it?


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> so the plan is:
> 
> squat 3x5
> 
> ...


 Leg extension and hamstring curls one day, squats another, deads another, all bases covered and not too taxing doing it everyday

bench to tricep overhead press every day and then the above tagged on in rotation

and squat 2x10 aswell, not 3x5, use lighter weight, get form right and go for it

only thing I'd do sets of 5 reps for is deads as they can be very taxing!


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Leg extension and hamstring curls one day, squats another, deads another, all bases covered and not too taxing doing it everyday
> 
> bench to tricep overhead press every day and then the above tagged on in rotation
> 
> ...


 Why 2 sets instead Of 3


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Why 2 sets instead Of 3


 Simple answer, your doing every exercise every other day, it's so you don't burn out after a week or two, as long as you use a weight that challenges you and you struggle to get those last few reps then you'll grow! And faster than hitting each muscle once a week! Your gym session should take roughly 50-60mins

so rather than 45kg bench for 3x10 your doing 55kg for 2x10 and feeling just as knackered at the end 

too much volume can hurt gains! Once you get to know your body you can try more volume, but stick with this for 12 weeks and see how it goes, if your eating in a slight surplus and gaining 2-3lb a month your doing it right!

at the end of the day you'll be working hard for those 50-60 mins, don't cheat any exercises, hammer curls from a dead hang, no inertia etc, slow the negatives down...

in other words your training smarter!!


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Leg extension and hamstring curls one day, squats another, deads another, all bases covered and not too taxing doing it everyday
> 
> bench to tricep overhead press every day and then the above tagged on in rotation
> 
> ...


 Today i have done this training

it just took 20 min ...


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Today i have done this training
> 
> it just took 20 min ...


 Then the weights were nothing like heavy enough for you. Saying 2x10 means doing so at a weight where you struggle to get the 10th rep.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Then the weights were nothing like heavy enough for you. Saying 2x10 means doing so at a weight where you struggle to get the 10th rep.


 Yeah but

the rest time 90 seconds right ?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah but
> 
> the rest time 90 seconds right ?


 I might rest for longer, but even with that you can't do 16 sets with 90s rest in 20 minutes.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I might rest for longer, but even with that you can't do 16 sets with 90s rest in 20 minutes.


 I did

i actually work very hard for 6 months but probably wrong diet could not help me


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> I did
> 
> i actually work very hard for 6 months but probably wrong diet could not help me


 Then it took you more than 20 minutes...


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Then it took you more than 20 minutes...


 Little bit more

but certainly not 40


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Cago1355 said:


> Little bit more
> 
> but certainly not 40


 My weights( l could lift more but for the first time,I did little bit easier)

bench press -> 50 kg

side lateral raise->8 kg dumbells

Pendley row -> 40 kg

Hammer curl-> 10 kg dumbells

triceps overhead -> 20 kg

squat-> 70 kg


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Little bit more
> 
> but certainly not 40


 40 is more what was in mind though I think. It will partly depend how quickly you can go between different exercises (changing weights etc). Personally I would use heavier weights and longer pauses, especially on major lifts like squats.

I should let @superdrol comment on this really though as it's his routine - I just replied as I saw your post appear after I'd replied to one of your other threads.


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

12x 90 seconds rest is 18 minutes by itself, setup and each set will take 90 seconds each, that's another 18 minutes, assuming no time spent changing weights and stuff, so twenty minutes?? Really lol, I said it would take no more than an hr, assuming time for changing weights, moving round the gym etc so if you had a good run 40 minutes isn't beyond the realms of possibility but I suspect because it's light you were rushing to see how quick you could get it done

also there's warm up sets for some not all of the exercises and 90 seconds rest after those aswell... so I think your either not lifting with decent warm ups and actually giving the muscle time to warm up i.e. Allowing 90 secs after that aswell to let the muscle properly fill with blood and warmup, for example for a bench, I'd do a few sets of 10x20kg to get the blood flowing, then up the weight to the next 20kg increment (40kg for you) and do 3 reps of that, then 50kg for my work sets, shoulders should be relatively warm by now with bench, so straight into lateral raises and then because your relatively light I'd go straight through the rest as they all get warmed up to some degree with initial exercises, once rows get to 60kg if warmup with some reps at 40kg aswell for a bit of blood flow...

theres another 6 minutes there

Plus if you say you could do more work it will seem easy, add 2.5kg to bench and rows next session, and 1kg on the dumbell exercises, you'll soon be blowing out of your arse to failure and wishing you had more time for rest  Wait until your struggling to press the weight for 10 and failing the last rep and it takes a week or so to progress and add weight


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Set your stop watch going on your phone when you start and hit lap each time you finish an exercise, then once it says 90 seconds do your next set, and don't just lift the weight, anyone can do that, when lowering your bench, control the weight for 2-3 seconds, and then explode it back up, will prob take 5 seconds a rep, that's about right once you've took a breath and lowered it again...

possibly we have different views of hard work and lifting with effectiveness


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Set your stop watch going on your phone when you start and hit lap each time you finish an exercise, then once it says 90 seconds do your next set, and don't just lift the weight, anyone can do that, when lowering your bench, control the weight for 2-3 seconds, and then explode it back up, will prob take 5 seconds a rep, that's about right once you've took a breath and lowered it again...
> 
> possibly we have different views of hard work and lifting with effectiveness


 Yeah man but i'm learning


----------



## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

You use more weight for side laterals and hammer curls than I do...


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Robbie said:


> You use more weight for side laterals and hammer curls than I do...


 Idk Your level but i am doing movements slowly and take care Of rom


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Cago1355 said:


> I did
> 
> i actually work very hard for 6 months but probably wrong diet could not help me


 No you can't. Maths much.

16x1.5 (which is 90 seconds) is 24 minutes of rest you buffoon.

Stop talking so much shite.

You are clearly fu**ing about,????


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Mate. You're at it.

You want a magic routine or something?

If you did this in anywhere near 20mins then you were doing it wrong and just going through the motions.

Again. YouTube.

Watch a workout. See how yours differs.

I guarantee that you are doing it wrong.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> Mate. You're at it.
> 
> You want a magic routine or something?
> 
> ...


 Dude

probably not wrong

but to learn all movements,i made them with lower weights


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> No you can't. Maths much.
> 
> 16x1.5 (which is 90 seconds) is 24 minutes of rest you buffoon.
> 
> ...


 Hey

don't be rude

you are not in the street


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Cago1355 said:


> Hey
> 
> don't be rude
> 
> you are not in the street


 ???

Huh?

I stand by the overall point. You are chatting s**t. Be open. Be honest. Otherwise you're coming across like a troll


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

simonboyle said:


> ???
> 
> Huh?
> 
> I stand by the overall point. You are chatting s**t. Be open. Be honest. Otherwise you're coming across like a troll


 I am open

maybe i didn't do rest time as 90 seconds,maybe Lower

i don't Need to say a lie

i always tell my flaws

i told you as a beginner,i used lighter weights to complete movements succesfully


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ok.

Then you need to reassess what you write.

Or take notes.

Or use a watch.

Etc.


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Idk Your level but i am doing movements slowly and take care Of rom


 not that slowly or you wouldn't be done so quick, anyway, next time use a stopwatch and do 90 seconds, it's good practice for when you actually get heavy and need 90 seconds, I get that you want to learn the movements and get the exercises right, with good form... but coming back with it was done in twenty minutes is hardly factually correct, if you'd said I didn't need 60 seconds rest even... and powered through everything because it was light that would've been more like it, just say it how it is and don't mix facts with story' and in a few weeks you'll be hitting some decent weights and wanting more than 90 seconds rest

it's ok if you do need more than 90 seconds to get your second set of ten, just remember next time you need to repeat it with 90 seconds rest and only then increase weight, it's all about being honest with yourself and deciding if the lift was 100% or a bit messy for the last few reps

don't be in a rush, only increase weight when you can do your 10 or 11 with perfect form :thumbup1:


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Idk Your level but i am doing movements slowly and take care Of rom


 Look at his avatar... there's a big clue there, are you in that shape? Maybe he's subtly trying to help you learn??


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Look at his avatar... there's a big clue there, are you in that shape? Maybe he's subtly trying to help you learn??


 Yeah i am not in that Shape

and i am not doing this sport for shape

just for Health,Shape is the Result


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah i am not in that Shape
> 
> and i am not doing this sport for shape
> 
> just for Health,Shape is the Result


 So what did his comment teach you??


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> So what did his comment teach you??


 C'mon man

ask Yourself

8 kg lateral raise and 10 kg hammer curl are not Much


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> C'mon man
> 
> ask Yourself
> 
> 8 kg lateral raise and 10 kg hammer curl are not Much


 Depends if your lifting with your ego or training clever... with hammer curls anyone can throw a weight up, lift it over 3 seconds per rep up and the same on the negative, suddenly it becomes a very heavy weight... and your time under tension that makes the muscle grow has tripled, so your two sets are now two times more effective for breaking down muscle fibres

when you say not much, who for? You? Him? Me? Don't worry about two of those people, stick to just you and lift slowly, weight is largely irrelevant as long as you carry on increasing work done over your twelve weeks, be that withmore weight, longer negatives, more reps... the weight is only one part of the work you do...

grab a 2kg dumbell and hold it out with a straight arm for as long as you can, takes more effort than holding it there for a second?? Same with slowing the movement down, it's a lot more work done...

telling us what's light or heavy is relative to how you lift...


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Tell you what, get someone to video you doing two sets of hammer curls with ten kg with 6 seconds per rep with a 90 second break between sets and then tell me it's light, use a stopwatch so you don't cheat and if you can do proper controlled hammer curls without moving your elbows and full control of the weight for the full duration of the motion I'll eat my hat  I suppose your 20 minute workout that turned into maybe forty, with maybe less than 90 second rest times may reflect badly on your time keeping skills mind lol


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Tell you what, get someone to video you doing two sets of hammer curls with ten kg with 6 seconds per rep with a 90 second break between sets and then tell me it's light, use a stopwatch so you don't cheat and if you can do proper controlled hammer curls without moving your elbows and full control of the weight for the full duration of the motion I'll eat my hat  I suppose your 20 minute workout that turned into maybe forty, with maybe less than 90 second rest times may reflect badly on your time keeping skills mind lol


 here's another question about diet:

let's say my bmr is 2500 calories

And i want to go for bulking

so i should increase it 3000 calories to gain fat

However,is it a good strategy to take 2500 at rest days and 3000 calories at workout days?


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Covered that one already, both me and ultrasonic I think in this thread... increase calories slowly until scales start to move, if your consuming 2500 calories and losing/maintaining weight I'd have no problem with 2800 calories for a few weeks, then up it by 200 cals every few weeks until the scales start to move gently...

but you won't know your bmr now your program has changed... it will change also... so you need to train consistently and eat the same then workout how the two marry up :thumbup1:

as for varying calories, I prefer to stay constant... reasoning... what days do you grow on?? Training or none training?? The answer is why I wouldn't drop cals on none training days... stay consistent while your learning


----------



## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

Wheres the cat in all this? Guess you chose to bulk?


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Inapsine said:


> Wheres the cat in all this? Guess you chose to bulk?


 It's sat on the mat obviously!


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah i am not in that Shape
> 
> and i am not doing this sport for shape
> 
> just for Health,Shape is the Result


 I thought it was all about a six pack?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> here's another question about diet:
> 
> let's say my bmr is 2500 calories
> 
> ...


 You need calories both to train and to recover/grow, so eat the same total calories every day.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I thought it was all about a six pack?


 yes,i said i'm obsessed with six-packs but this doesn't mean that i am just doing for it

because i'm also obssessed with living,so something that makes me stronger and healthier,is a true thing


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Cago1355 said:


> C'mon man
> 
> ask Yourself
> 
> 8 kg lateral raise and 10 kg hammer curl are not Much


 8kg lateral raise is fine, its not like its a ****in main lift or a compound movement.

True hammer curls are brutal, I can only do 14kg with strict movemnt and slow reps. Most people jush throw the f**kers up though.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Tell you what, get someone to video you doing two sets of hammer curls with ten kg with 6 seconds per rep with a 90 second break between sets and then tell me it's light, use a stopwatch so you don't cheat and if you can do proper controlled hammer curls without moving your elbows and full control of the weight for the full duration of the motion I'll eat my hat  I suppose your 20 minute workout that turned into maybe forty, with maybe less than 90 second rest times may reflect badly on your time keeping skills mind lol


 Routine took 50 minutes


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Routine took 50 minutes


 That's more like, and once you start pushing the weight it will turn into an hr as last reps become hard, don't rush to get there, don't throw a load of extra weight on the bar, stick with it and make sure your diet is spot on, this first few months are the fast track to learning about your body and the nutrition it requires, walk before you can run so to speak


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> That's more like, and once you start pushing the weight it will turn into an hr as last reps become hard, don't rush to get there, don't throw a load of extra weight on the bar, stick with it and make sure your diet is spot on, this first few months are the fast track to learning about your body and the nutrition it requires, walk before you can run so to speak


 What if bulking makes my love handles more ?

View attachment IMG_2349.JPG


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> What if bulking makes my love handles more ?


 It will slightly over time. So what?


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> It will slightly over time. So what?


 Idk

i don't want to be embarrassed to shirt off


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Idk
> 
> i don't want to be embarrassed to shirt off


 This is why 'bulking' or as I prefer a 'gaining phase' should be done whilst keeping fat gain under control. Yes you will gain some, but it shouldn't be loads. If you get to a point you really aren't happy with, cut.

I think you said you were cutting for three months? Presumably you're a fair bit leaner now than when you started?

If you are still uncomfortable with you current body fat level then focus on fat loss for a bit longer though. It's a question of what you'd be happiest doing. You started this thread saying you were getting depressed focusing of fat loss though which is why I suggested you switched to a gaining phase, at least for a while.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> This is why 'bulking' or as I prefer a 'gaining phase' should be done whilst keeping fat gain under control. Yes you will gain some, but it shouldn't be loads. If you get to a point you really aren't happy with, cut.
> 
> I think you said you were cutting for three months? Presumably you're a fair bit leaner now than when you started?
> 
> If you are still uncomfortable with you current body fat level then focus on fat loss for a bit longer though. It's a question of what you'd be happiest doing. You started this thread saying you were getting depressed focusing of fat loss though which is why I suggested you switched to a gaining phase, at least for a while.


 Is this too much rice ?

I cooked 100 gr brown rice but it looks like so muchhh

View attachment IMG_2766.JPG


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Is this too much rice ?
> 
> I cooked 100 gr brown rice but it looks like so muchhh
> 
> View attachment 145032


 See my point earlier about deciding how many calories you need to determine portion size... That doesn't look like rice in your photo though?

When gaining I'll have up to 150g (uncooked) portions of white rice but I'll have far less when aiming for maintenance or a calorie deficit.

I prefer white rice to brown and it's debatable which is actually healthier since brown contains more mercury.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> See my point earlier about deciding how many calories you need to determine portion size... That doesn't look like rice in your photo though?
> 
> When gaining I'll have up to 150g (uncooked) portions of white rice but I'll have far less when aiming for maintenance or a calorie deficit.
> 
> I prefer white rice to brown and it's debatable which is actually healthier since brown contains more mercury.


 Okay,so for gains i'm cooking 100g uncooked rice for portion and then i'm incrasing +200 cal


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Okay,so for gains i'm cooking 100g uncooked rice for portion and then i'm incrasing +200 cal


 There is no 'correct' portion size for rice!

Do you even like rice? You're slightly talking as if you've never cooked it before.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> There is no 'correct' portion size for rice!
> 
> Do you even like rice? You're slightly talking as if you've never cooked it before.


 Yeah my favorite carb is rice


----------



## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah my favorite carb is rice


 Pizza, chips and ice cream are my favourite carbs!


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> Is this too much rice ?
> 
> I cooked 100 gr brown rice but it looks like so muchhh
> 
> View attachment 145032


 Looks like you've just been sick and then fapped one out on top of it.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah my favorite carb is rice


 OK, good  . Basing your diet around things you like to eat is important.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Robbie said:


> Pizza, chips and ice cream are my favourite carbs!


 Hhaha yeah but I have never eaten them before cus I don't like them


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> Looks like you've just been sick and then fapped one out on top of it.


 Hahaha sorry man if you don't like the view


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> This is why 'bulking' or as I prefer a 'gaining phase' should be done whilst keeping fat gain under control. Yes you will gain some, but it shouldn't be loads. If you get to a point you really aren't happy with, cut.
> 
> I think you said you were cutting for three months? Presumably you're a fair bit leaner now than when you started?
> 
> If you are still uncomfortable with you current body fat level then focus on fat loss for a bit longer though. It's a question of what you'd be happiest doing. You started this thread saying you were getting depressed focusing of fat loss though which is why I suggested you switched to a gaining phase, at least for a while.


 Yeah I saw some little changes in last 3 months

for example

veins in my arm,a little bit more obvious packs,thiner belly


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Hhaha yeah but I have never eaten them before cus I don't like them


 Then how do you know you don't like them?


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Then how do you know you don't like them?


 Because I am against all the unhealthy things whether they are delicious or not ☺


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Because I am against all the unhealthy things whether they are delicious or not ☺


 None of the foods mentioned are flat out unhealthy!

I am one of the most health conscious posters here and I frequently eat chips, pizzas and ice cream.


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> None of the foods mentioned are flat out unhealthy!
> 
> I am one of the most health conscious posters here and I frequently eat chips, pizzas and ice cream.


 C'mon

even i don't drink whey proteins that is sweetened with sweeteners

so they are pretty unhealthy

ice cream - sugar

pizza-sausage,oil,pan

chips-oil include cancerogens


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> C'mon
> 
> even i don't drink whey proteins that is sweetened with sweeteners
> 
> ...


 I'm afraid you're very wide of the mark in terms of genuine health concerns with pretty much all of that lot. I'll give you that limiting processed meat is a good idea and at a stretch that burnt chips would be very slightly carcinogenic but that's being generous.

Not that you have to eat things you have (incorrect) health concerns about though, it's just a question of unecessarily depriving yourself of otherwise enjoyable food.


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> C'mon
> 
> even i don't drink whey proteins that is sweetened with sweeteners
> 
> ...


 Cookchips in olive oil if your that bothered

fruit contains sugar

pizza is dough, cheese, tomatoes... you don't need sausage... oil or pan on it whatever that is...

your ideas of healthy foods are warped buddy!! And your cmon comment implies you think ultrasonic is wrong??? You are, not he!!


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Cookchips in olive oil if your that bothered
> 
> fruit contains sugar
> 
> ...


 Yeah but I don't say that fruits are so healthy

Don't support the idea that these sh**ty foods are need !


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm afraid you're very wide of the mark in terms of genuine health concerns with pretty much all of that lot. I'll give you that limiting processed meat is a good idea and at a stretch that burnt chips would be very slightly carcinogenic but that's being generous.
> 
> Not that you have to eat things you have (incorrect) health concerns about though, it's just a question of unecessarily depriving yourself of otherwise enjoyable food.


 For me they are not enjoyable


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah but I don't say that fruits are so healthy


 Everything is healthy as long as you don't overdo any one thing! Fruit is full of vitamins and minerals! And your the one that eats brown rice which is known to contain mercury, I hope your not going to eat any more poisonous brown rice now!!



Cago1355 said:


> For me they are not enjoyable


 Again talking out of your backside... your basing this on your vast experience of food... you've just said you haven't eaten them so you'd know this how??


----------



## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Everything is healthy as long as you don't overdo any one thing! Fruit is full of vitamins and minerals! And your the one that eats brown rice which is known to contain mercury, I hope your not going to eat any more poisonous brown rice now!!
> 
> Again talking out of your backside... your basing this on your vast experience of food... you've just said you haven't eaten them so you'd know this how??


 lol,still in the 21th century,this old medicine quotes are there !

yeah but can you please read it again? I didn't say fruits are unhealthy,i said they are not SO healthy,that means that sugar harms you but;vitamins and minerals compensate.But for fast food,it is not logical to take 50gr sh*t fat and 10g protein


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> lol,still in the 21th century,this old medicine quotes are there !
> 
> yeah but can you please read it again? I didn't say fruits are unhealthy,i said they are not SO healthy,that means that sugar harms you but;vitamins and minerals compensate.But for fast food,it is not logical to take 50gr sh*t fat and 10g protein


 Sugar doesn't harm you!! Your just incorrect!!


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Sugar doesn't harm you!! Your just wrong!!


  okay,after this sentence i don't think it's meaningful to discuss


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> okay,after this sentence i don't think it's meaningful to discuss


 No please tell us how sugar is so bad for us, I'm curious as to your reasonings for this statement

edit. Actually people who say they can't discuss things are generally clueless and don't actually know any scientific basis for stuff they've said... says a lot about a person and there level of knowledge normally, feel free to prove me wrong with your reasoning about sugar being bad for us and unhealthy


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Do you drink milk?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> No please tell us how sugar is so bad for us, I'm curious as to your reasonings for this statement


 okay man,you're right and i'm wrong,do whatever you want and sugar is harmless


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Do you drink milk?


 nope because of lactose,also not yoghurt,not bread

red meat max. 2 times in a week,fish,turkey,kale,spinach,nuts,salad,not canned tuna,no pasta at all,never processed foods,eggs from village and cage-free chickens,no teflon,no microwaves,no smartphones,don't use telephones under %20 battery


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> okay man,you're right and i'm wrong,do whatever you want and sugar is harmless


 Again your clueless, you can't even justify your sweeping statement!! Just act like a child after all the help we've given you I would hope you could at least have some decency and show us your reasoning, pathetic!


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Again your clueless, you can't even justify your sweeping statement!! Just act like a child after all the help we've given you I would hope you could at least have some decency and show us your reasoning, pathetic!


 lol your attitude makes you funnier dude

sorry but you don't have to right to say 'pathetic',you should respect when you are arguing with someone

i don't see a reason to talk with you about the damages of sugar,i don't want to become tired because of you,sorry


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not arguing, you made a sweeping statement and now can't give any evidence for it, all the advice I've given I've explained whys and wherefors and can happily back it up if needed too, it's based on fact... you should show some respect for those who've helped you on here by enlightening us and giving something back... oh wait you can't because you have no clue and there's no scientist or nutritionist in the world that would say sugar is bad for us


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Nothing wrong with sugar mate you have a warped view on what's healthy or not, to much of anything can be bad but what they are talking about is fine, wouldn't expect much else from you though since you haven't grasped the basics yet


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Yeah but I don't say that fruits are so healthy


 That comment is worrying as here your lack of knowledge is probably actually having a negative effect on your health. For health benefits I generally eat one banana, one apple and one kiwi per day. Fruit has an utterly unquestionable positive effect on health and avoiding it because of sugar content (I'm guessing) is totally misguided.

This video for example refers to a paper showing the positive effect that eating fruit has even on people with diabetes , followed by studies looking at frankly absurdly high fruit consumption with no adverse effects:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I'll just add one other interesting fruit related video, where the second half suggest possible anti-cancer properties of various fruits:


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'll just add one other interesting fruit related video, where the second half suggest possible anti-cancer properties of various fruits:


 Am I counted as beginner ?

I lifted before just 3-4 months but still can I gain noob gains?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Am I counted as beginner ?
> 
> I lifted before just 3-4 months but still can I gain noob gains?


 It slightly depends how effective your first 3-4 months training were but it makes no practical difference and so isn't worth thinking about. Either way you need to be pushing yourself as hard as you can to make progress in the gym.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> Am I counted as beginner ?
> 
> I lifted before just 3-4 months but still can I gain noob gains?


 With weight lifting there is a thing called diminished returns. When you first start you can get fast results with little effort but as you get closer to what could be called ''your'' natural limit you need to put more effort in but will get slower results. It's not so much down to how long you have been training but how much progress you have made/muscle built.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> With weight lifting there is a thing called diminished returns. When you first start you can get fast results with little effort but as you get closer to what could be called ''your'' natural limit you need to put more effort in but will get slower results. It's not so much down to how long you have been training but how much progress you have made/muscle built.


 Oh yeah good news after long time


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## doopy (Jun 2, 2017)

bumping but watch this video


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> With weight lifting there is a thing called diminished returns. When you first start you can get fast results with little effort but as you get closer to what could be called ''your'' natural limit you need to put more effort in but will get slower results. It's not so much down to how long you have been training but how much progress you have made/muscle built.


 I have a problem

last week I was 75.1 kg but then I took a 1-week break because I was pretty sick.Today,this morning scale shows that I am 77.4 :/ what should I do?

i didn't take excess calories during 1 week,i didnt eat junk food,my calorie level was 2100


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Carry on it will sort itself out, don't stress!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Totally forget about it. And next time don't stress about counting calories if you're properly unwell.

Getting in better shape naturally is a long term process. What happens in one week is nothing.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> I have a problem
> 
> last week I was 75.1 kg but then I took a 1-week break because I was pretty sick.Today,this morning scale shows that I am 77.4 :/ what should I do?
> 
> i didn't take excess calories during 1 week,i didnt eat junk food,my calorie level was 2100


 You did not put on 2.3kg of fat that would be getting on for 18000 calories in excess to do that.


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> You did not put on 2.3kg of fat that would be getting on for 18000 calories in excess to do that.


 So what should i do now?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cago1355 said:


> So what should i do now?


 Your overethinking everything. Just keep doing your workouts and aim to increase your lifts.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Totally forget about it. And next time don't stress about counting calories if you're properly unwell.
> 
> Getting in better shape naturally is a long term process. What happens in one week is nothing.





superdrol said:


> Carry on it will sort itself out, don't stress!





monkeybiker said:


> Your overethinking everything. Just keep doing your workouts and aim to increase your lifts.





Cago1355 said:


> So what should i do now?


 Erm... are we speaking Sanskrit??  you'll add weight by stressing!! Just go with it!! Move on, forget it!


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Erm... are we speaking Sanskrit??  you'll add weight by stressing!! Just go with it!! Move on, forget it!


 But man what about my calories ? How can i find my maintenance with these changes ?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> But man what about my calories ? How can i find my maintenance with these changes ?


 Add 32 calories per pound you've added... then subtract 16 calories per half pound added... in other words what we've said, nothing has changed in reality (and breathe... that's me not you!) I'll repeat (and it's not for my health) give it a few weeks and all will sort itself! Carry on as you are with 2100 calories


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Maintenence isn't a set figure, it's a range, it could be your maintenence is 1900 to 2500, you might not gain weight until 2700 that's why we said stay consistent, but as said when your ill f**k the diet, eat whatever you like to fuel getting better and feeling better


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> But man what about my calories ? How can i find my maintenance with these changes ?


 Just eat whatever you were going to for the next week. You also don't need to find maintenance calories - what you're after is the calories that lets you gradually gain weight without too much fat gain.

If you don't mind the extra work you would be better off weighing yourself daily but NOT worrying about the fluctuations from one day to the next. Instead compare the average weight from one week to the next.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just eat whatever you were going to for the next week. You also don't need to find maintenance calories - what you're after is the calories that lets you gradually gain weight without too much fat gain.
> 
> If you don't mind the extra work you would be better off weighing yourself daily but NOT worrying about the fluctuations from one day to the next. Instead compare the average weight from one week to the next.


 I find happy scale is decent for that, it's an app for the iPhone and just lets you log it and gives an average of the past few weighs, simple and does the maths for you


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just eat whatever you were going to for the next week. You also don't need to find maintenance calories - what you're after is the calories that lets you gradually gain weight without too much fat gain.
> 
> If you don't mind the extra work you would be better off weighing yourself daily but NOT worrying about the fluctuations from one day to the next. Instead compare the average weight from one week to the next.


 I find happy scale is decent for that, it's an app for the iPhone and just lets you log it and gives an average of the past few weighs, simple and does the maths for you


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

superdrol said:


> I find happy scale is decent for that, it's an app for the iPhone and just lets you log it and gives an average of the past few weighs, simple and does the maths for you


 Sounds good.

(I'm afraid I'm sad enough to have an Excel spreadsheet for this.)


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just eat whatever you were going to for the next week. You also don't need to find maintenance calories - what you're after is the calories that lets you gradually gain weight without too much fat gain.
> 
> If you don't mind the extra work you would be better off weighing yourself daily but NOT worrying about the fluctuations from one day to the next. Instead compare the average weight from one week to the next.


 Okay so i am gradually increasing my calories from 2100 to 2300


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Okay so i am gradually increasing my calories from 2100 to 2300


 Stick to 2100 for a few weeks and let your weight settle again, there's no rush, you've just upset the equilibrium with being ill, let that settle out and then see what happens after that


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Okay so i am gradually increasing my calories from 2100 to 2300


 Whatever I said to you before - I can't remember now! Nothing too gradual though.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Whatever I said to you before - I can't remember now! Nothing too gradual though.


 Not nit picking... revenge is sweet  :whistling:  do you mean nothing too rushed  or do it gradually


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Not nit picking... revenge is sweet  :whistling:  do you mean nothing too rushed  or do it gradually


 Revenge for what ?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> Revenge for what ?


 Last time he wrote 'not nit picking' on one of my posts


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

superdrol said:


> Not nit picking... revenge is sweet  :whistling:  do you mean nothing too rushed  or do it gradually


 I meant what I said actually - look up gradual in a dictionary  .

(I was saying don't increase calories too slowly in the range he suggested, as from memory I think I'd suggested doing it in one go.)


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Cago1355 said:


> Revenge for what ?


 Pointing out superdrol has a thing for small bananas  .


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> I meant what I said actually - look up gradual in a dictionary  .
> 
> (I was saying don't increase calories too slowly in the range he suggested, as from memory I think I'd suggested doing it in one go.)


 Need more nit picking practice!  You did actually say 200, then 200, then 100 per week so I'll let you off just this once but leave the small bananas out of it!


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

@superdrolHey guys,it's been a long time with no see ! I hope,you both fine and healthy [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=https://content.invisioncic.com/r270564/emoticons/default_smile.png&key=d55715e8a12c171da21d36e4bad989bf0c849932e043beebf183e080c7a15a74[/IMG]

I just want to share with you that i have completed 3 months with a program above.I have gained nearly 2 kilos and increased the weights.But now,i have a question.At that time,should i change my program.If i should,which program do you recommend ? thanks


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cago1355 said:


> @superdrolHey guys,it's been a long time with no see ! I hope,you both fine and healthy [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=https://content.invisioncic.com/r270564/emoticons/default_smile.png&key=d55715e8a12c171da21d36e4bad989bf0c849932e043beebf183e080c7a15a74[/IMG]
> 
> I just want to share with you that i have completed 3 months with a program above.I have gained nearly 2 kilos and increased the weights.But now,i have a question.At that time,should i change my program.If i should,which program do you recommend ? thanks


 As long as you can still progress with the weights as you have been doing carry on as you were doing, the body doesn't get used to a workout, so carry on as you were buddy, I'm sure squats had a mention when we sorted out the workout plan?


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## Cago1355 (Aug 22, 2017)

superdrol said:


> As long as you can still progress with the weights as you have been doing carry on as you were doing, the body doesn't get used to a workout, so carry on as you were buddy, I'm sure squats had a mention when we sorted out the workout plan?


 Yeah actually there is squat


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