# The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss



## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

Very good read so thought i'd share. :thumbup1:

The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss

In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.

However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who's main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation-muscle for sports and high intensity activities.

My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.

I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I'll explain later.

How the diet works.

The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.

The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there's no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.

This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.

When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.

As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there's a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.

On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn't it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.

Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.

The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I've trained to the leanest, hardest they've ever been.

First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.

The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There's no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).

So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don't know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won't happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.

What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

So what about dietary fat? I know you're reminding yourself, "Didn't this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here's why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?

Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can't just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.

By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!

As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter's decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)

In Case You Missed It

So here's how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein-no fat or carbs.

Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.

Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!

CKD Workout

Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.

First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.

Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here's what we do:

On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:

(Note: You may feel free to tweak, shake, and turn this example upside down.

Everybody is different, so find what works for you.)

MONDAY: Chest, Back, Abs

High intensity workouts with 60 sec rest between sets, 90 sec rest between

each exercise

(this excludes all warm up sets)

Bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

T-bar Row 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Incline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Latpulldown to front 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Dips or Decline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Shrugs 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Flys (any type) 2 sets, 10-12 reps

Reverse flys 2 sets, 10-12 reps

Stiff-leg deadlift 3 sets, 10-12 reps

Rope ab crunch 3 sets, 10-15 reps

Reverse crunch 3 sets, 10-20 reps

TUESDAY: Shoulders, Arms

Same intensity mentioned before

Behind the neck shoulder press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Military press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Preacher curls 3 sets, 8-10 reps

French press or "skull-crushers" 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Shoulder raises (any type) 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Hammers 3 sets, 8-10 reps

V-bar tricep press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Reverse forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Wednesday: Rest or Cardio

Thursday morning: Rest or Cardio

Later on Thursday: Legs

Same intensity mentioned before

Squat or Leg press 4 sets, 6-10 reps

Lying leg curl 4 sets, 6-10 reps

Standing calf raise 4 sets 6-10 reps

Leg extensions 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Seated leg curl 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Seated calf raise 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Friday night: Final Workout

Same intensity mentioned before

Bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps

T-bar Row 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Incline bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Latpulldown to front 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Behind the neck shoulder press 1 set, 8-10 reps

Military press 1 set, 8-10 reps

Either curl exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Either tricep exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Stiffleg deadift 1 set, 8-10 reps

Normal floor ab crunch 2 sets, 10-20 reps

Reverse crunches 2 sets, 10-20 reps

Start the carb up for 24-30 hours!

Aerobics

Before we go on, I want to address the cardio/aerobics issue. Some people find that for the first month on a CKD, cardio/aerobics is not needed. However when fat loss does start to slow down a bit, that is when most start adding 30 min. sessions on their off days. Be careful though, you do not want to hinder your Thursday leg workout. So experiment and try to only add aerobic sessions if you feel you have to.

Supplements

So we have the basic diet outline stated, the workout, now what about supplements? Things that can extremely optimize this diet regime. Well, I have to admit no allegiance to any supplement company on this one: Water. Water is important on any diet, especially low carb since there is a diuretic effect, and more importantly during the carbing period. Glycogen is stored with water! You need as much water as possible to hydrate the depleted muscle. Trust me, you will feel a huge "pump" on Sunday morning from all the stored carbs and water INSIDE your muscle.

Speaking of muscle, the god of all sports supplement right now: Creatine. It can still be used on a low carb diet. Usually 10 grams a day during the low carb days, and around 20-30 grams during the carbing period should work for most everybody. I highly recommend it for everybody who doesn't get an upset stomach using it.

Finally, one that everyone that's dieted before knows about: The ECA stack. Most have not used pure ECA, but mainly herbal extracts in thermogenic products sold by sports supplement companies. For a pre-work out boost and increased fat burning through thermogenics (heat), this is my favorite supplement. It does its job, you feel it happening, and it can help you psychologically when you don't feel like working out that day.

Conclusion

With all this said, I will throw my personal opinion, thanks and motivation on or for the cyclical ketogenic diet. First of all, to me, it is the greatest diet every developed. It makes sense, works and isn't as hard to follow as one might think. Just stay motivated and concentrate on your goal.

When you have a craving during the week for that cupcake or pasta, just go eat a delicious serving of some pepperoni and melted mozzarella cheese. Or how about a hamburger patty covered in cheddar cheese and some strips of bacon? Foods that are delicious and that can satiate hunger.

I followed this exact plan this past summer for eight weeks and loss 18 pounds of fat without any loss in muscle. It was the leanest and most vascular I had ever seen myself.

And I must give thanks where thanks are due since I did not come up with this diet. Dan Duchaine, who recently passed away, brought my attention to a CKD with his book BodyOpus and Lyle McDonald has done deep research and wrote his book The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.

This diet can be for you. Oh you're only a mass builder? Well, lower bodyfat percentages even make you look bigger! Give it some thought and decide. Then achieve your goal. It's worth it: A diet with true fat loss.


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Cheers m8 good read! reps :thumbup1:


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

mart revive said:


> Cheers m8 good read! reps :thumbup1:


Thanks, i thought so too mate, i just dont agree with the routine they suggest


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

Graham Mc said:


> Thanks, i thought so too mate, i just dont agree with the routine they suggest


Yeah i must admit when i start this diet i wont be following this weights routine, as he says though you can tweak his workout or just totally change it to suit yourself


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, just realised in all low carb diets, during the carb ups they say high carb low/no fat, why is this?

isit just to ensure you dont go mad on the cals, or because they say carbs/fats shouldnt both be high in a diet together?


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers mate, just realised in all low carb diets, during the carb ups they say high carb low/no fat, why is this?
> 
> isit just to ensure you dont go mad on the cals, or because they say carbs/fats shouldnt both be high in a diet together?


Because your using fat as fuel instead of carbs for 6 days so when the carb up begins your then pumping a vast amount of carbs in for fuel/ to replace lost glycogen levels so fat intake should be at minimum, it all depends how serious your doing things if i was about to step on stage in 12 weeks id follow everything to the letter but just getting the bodyfat % low for the abs to poke out for the summer you dont have to be as strict as you'd think.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I've tried a similar diet to this before and don't like it - found my ability to sustain strength throughout several sets was significantly reduced and muscle growth really slowed.

Much prefer carb cycling that lowers carbs four days a week but doesn't ever take the body into ketosis... for me this makes it easier to maintain higher performance in exercise and so do more fat burning exercise as a whole and lose more bodyfat.

I know many people love these diets though so it's definitely worth a try.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, i know about the fats for fuel part, but im wondering why they dont say about 100g healthy fats on a carb up, its almost as if they dont want carbs and fats to be at high levels together. Im just worrying as I am eating around 100g healthy fats and 200~ carbs


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers mate, i know about the fats for fuel part, but im wondering why they dont say about 100g healthy fats on a carb up, its almost as if they dont want carbs and fats to be at high levels together. Im just worrying as I am eating around 100g healthy fats and 200~ carbs


Carbs + fats = time bomb, Remember this. Whatever the diet you're on, you need to choose high consumption of carbs or high consumption of fats Never mix carbs & fats. they say it leads to high cholesterol and diabetes but thats just what ive red up on.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Dietary fat in the presence of high insulin levels leads to fat gain. When you carb up after low carbs your insulin response will be very strong, ideal for glycogen recompensation but high dietary fat levels can spill over and be stored, taking away a lot of the hard fat burning work you did in the week.

If you're doing a CKD I would follow the recommendations and even take the fat lower if possible. I'm with Dtlv and find carb cycling out of ketosis even better.


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

Dtlv74 said:


> I've tried a similar diet to this before and don't like it - found my ability to sustain strength throughout several sets was significantly reduced and muscle growth really slowed.
> 
> Much prefer carb cycling that lowers carbs four days a week but doesn't ever take the body into ketosis... for me this makes it easier to maintain higher performance in exercise and so do more fat burning exercise as a whole and lose more bodyfat.
> 
> I know many people love these diets though so it's definitely worth a try.


I believe this is why they suggest a low weight but high volume training on a keto diet as strenght does decrease but some people experience things differently usaly takes a good 3 weeks befor you get used to no carbs and start feeling fine


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

would you recommend carb cycling for fat loss, or as a permanent diet? including building lean mass?

Damn so me having 200g carbs and 100g fat is a bad thing? Ive been told so many times to up my fats! thats why im eating nuts and eggs at night!


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> would you recommend carb cycling for fat loss, or as a permanent diet? including building lean mass?
> 
> Damn so me having 200g carbs and 100g fat is a bad thing? Ive been told so many times to up my fats! thats why im eating nuts and eggs at night!


well its all trial and error mate and whats easy to fit in your life style and easy to follow but a carb cycling diet is great for a permanent diet and fatloss while gaining lean mass


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> would you recommend carb cycling for fat loss, or as a permanent diet? including building lean mass?
> 
> Damn so me having 200g carbs and 100g fat is a bad thing? Ive been told so many times to up my fats! thats why im eating nuts and eggs at night!


Carb Cycling is great for nutrient partitioning and recomp, say you train every other day, you could do off day low carb, training day high carb pwo so you have best of both worlds. Would be good for lean bulking too.

Have your body in a low insulin fat burning state on your off days and an anabolic state on your training days.

Keto diets are good though, but it's a critical for my work that I can concentrate, I get very foggy in that window until I am running of ketones.

Oh and you could eat 200g c and 100g f on the same day just not at the same time if your goals are fat loss or to keep you bulk leaner. Carbs in the am and later in the day fat, your insulin will have stabalised before you have your nuts and eggs.

Personally I would keep fat around 25% of your macros unless you are going full on keto.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Graham Mc said:


> Thanks, i thought so too mate, i just dont agree with the routine they suggest


X2^^^

I complete the whole body by Tuesday evening. Training Sunday AM, Monday PM, and Tuesday PM. Get the workouts in whilst glycogen is available. Also, by depleting glycogen sooner in cycle, will increase fat loss during latter stages of cycle.


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## Virtus (Apr 30, 2007)

B|GJOE said:


> X2^^^
> 
> I complete the whole body by Tuesday evening. Training Sunday AM, Monday PM, and Tuesday PM. Get the workouts in whilst glycogen is available. Also, by depleting glycogen sooner in cycle, will increase fat loss during latter stages of cycle.


Joe, how do you structure your work outs. Is it legs on sunday, upper monday, full body on Tuesday and wait until friday to start carb up?


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, I do currently aim for carb/pro meals earlier in the day and then in the pm more fat/pro.

My fats are currently about 35% of my intake at 100g, I was thinking of dropping them to 80, would you recommend it?

I think I will keep to this and try and lean bulk and if the fat creeps on I will probably try a carb cycle. Only reason I wouldnt do it know is as im working out mon-wed-fri, if I had my 'off' days as days where I go low carb to try and loose fat I feel this would be eating into my muscle recovery the day after training


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

rankinc said:


> Joe, how do you structure your work outs. Is it legs on sunday, upper monday, full body on Tuesday and wait until friday to start carb up?


Carb up Fri Evening to Sat Evening

Legs Sunday

Push (Chest, Delts, Tris) Monday

Pull (Back, Bi's) Tuesday

Depletion whole body workout on Friday evening before carb up.

Cardio after each weight session, and

Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri AM

Wed, Thu PM


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

The Push pull system (what Joe does) is in my opinion the best workout plan around. It allows for maximum rest and efficiency in your training. IMO.


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

Heres a nice Push/Pull/Leg routine i followed for awhile :

Day One:

Bench Press 2 x 6-8

Incline Press, or incline Fly 2 x 10-12

Military Press 2 x 6-8

Tricep Extensions or Tricep Pushdowns 2 x 10-12

Day Two:

Pull-Up 3x5

Single Arm Row 2 x 8

Dumbell Curl 1 x 10

Heavy Abs 3 x 10

Day Three

Squats 2 x 10

Deadlifts 1 x 10

Seated Leg Curl 2x8


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Graham Mc said:


> Heres a nice Push/Pull/Leg routine i followed for awhile :
> 
> Day One:
> 
> ...


Mmmmmmmmmmm don't much like the idea of doing deads on your leg day. I feel deads is primarily back, although it does hit the glutes and hams. I don't think you will be maximising your recovery for back by doing this. Just my 2p


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

Yeah i do agree with you Joe because in all honestly i didnt do deads most of the time, i'd pop another set on squats with a nice warm up with going heavy on the main sets, Same with the leg curl and added in Calf raises 

I't was just an alright routine that got me started lifting thoughs weights :thumbup1:


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## Finchy (Jun 14, 2009)

Graham this is a fascinating read.

I have trained with weights for years - I love lifting and to me it's the best form of exercise to keep in shape. Myself and my training partner train in his garage. This means that we have quick access to the weights, which is what we need because we both have very busy careers and busy lives. We fit two training sessions in per week, which is not ideal, but the point is lifting is an efficient exercise and it keeps me stong and fit - despite my lifestyle which is long hours and a commute on top! THe redeeminig factor is that we hit it hard in those two sessions, squats, deads, bench, presses, chins, dips, all the good stuff.

A couple of years ago as I was progressing through my thirties (age not bench) I noticed the midesection was getting a bit softer, so I figured I needed to alter my diet somewhat. At first I tried cutting calories alone, but this was just impossible to manage long term.

My next train of thought was "who are the people who know how to drastically cut fat" - obviously the answer was competitive bodybuilders, and that led me to look at cutting carbs, which at the time seemed counter intuitive as I had always been taught that you need carbs for their energy (my opinion has changed on this somwhat now).

First of all I read "The Anabolic Diet" which sparked my interest in cutting carbs. I then happend to come accross a documentary on DVD called "Fat Head" (Tom Naughton) which outlines some basic concepts and follows a guy who eats fast food for a month (minus the buns) and actually *loses* fat.

After that I read "Protein Power" and gave the concept a try. Bacon and eggs in the morning, plenty of steak, eggs, red meat etc - and lo and behold, I effortly lost my "paunch". I was never overly fat, but I'm sure all the guys out there know what I mean when I say your midsection thickens a little.

So that's good, I can pretty much control my weight now, but I would be interested to see if things can be improved somewhat further by taking a further step, such as the Cyclical Keto diet.

So my question is - is this a strategy that is adopted by many competitve bodybuilders? Not that i'll ever compete, but I would like to get an insight into what actually happens as you start preparing for a contest and dropping fat. I would be interested to know how extreme things get.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

There are a few reason for cycling carbs, namely refueling glycogen stores within the muscles to maintain training intensity and up regulating the hormones that signal metabolic slow down over periods of dieting, Leptin, Ghrelin etc. Also to give a psychological break from having no carbs.

A straight keto diet with no break is only really good for those people who are sedentary and/or are obese.

Check BigJoes journal in the journal section for a competitive prep using this approach.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

UKWolverine said:


> There are a few reason for cycling carbs, namely refueling glycogen stores within the muscles to maintain training intensity and up regulating the hormones that signal metabolic slow down over periods of dieting, Leptin, Ghrelin etc. Also to give a psychological break from having no carbs.
> 
> A straight keto diet with no break is only really good for those people who are sedentary and/or are obese.
> 
> Check BigJoes journal in the journal section for a competitive prep using this approach.


Nicely summed up and exactly my view too :thumb:


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## Hench666 (Nov 5, 2009)

Hi there, thanks, it was a great read. The Aitkins diet suggests to eat 20g of carbs per day. What would you suggest the amount of carbs that you would need to eat when you are trying to keep the carbs low?

cheers mate, i think i missed it in the article


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## spaynter (Jul 6, 2009)

Anything under 50g is probably OK, but most CKD's call for < 30g per day. These usually come from incidental carbs (low levels in some food stuffs you're not eating for carbs) and fibrous green veg.


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## tomass1342 (Nov 12, 2009)

How long does it take to hit ketosis? and what level of ketosis should you be reaching?

Ive just tested using ketostix and had a reading of 0.05-0.15. I havnt had any carbs since sunday afternoon. Is this sufficient for fat loss?

Thanks


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

tomass1342 said:


> How long does it take to hit ketosis? and what level of ketosis should you be reaching?
> 
> Ive just tested using ketostix and had a reading of 0.05-0.15. I havnt had any carbs since sunday afternoon. Is this sufficient for fat loss?
> 
> Thanks


Want my advice?

Fcuk the ketostix!!!

I personally achieve the greatest fat loss when my ketostix show no trace. When they are showing deep purples I don't loose that much fat. For example my this week I have lost a massive 4.25lbs, and look much leaner, and the ketostix have shown no trace all week.


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## tomass1342 (Nov 12, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> Want my advice?
> 
> Fcuk the ketostix!!!
> 
> I personally achieve the greatest fat loss when my ketostix show no trace. When they are showing deep purples I don't loose that much fat. For example my this week I have lost a massive 4.25lbs, and look much leaner, and the ketostix have shown no trace all week.


lol, ok, well ive bought and paid for them now so i'll keep checking anyway


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## andybtsn (May 18, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Just signed up. I started the CKD diet a week ago now (10th May) and have ate purely protein/fat products till this day. I read it's best to go two weeks before carbing up so I intend to do a workout sesh on Friday then start loading up on the carbs.

What is bugging me at the moment, and I can't get my head around is if my body is in Ketosis right now, does it come out of Keto the minute I eat carbs? Is it only in Ketosis that I burn the fat? Which leads me to think I want to keep my body in keto as long as possible?

I lost 5lb in my first week.

I've been training for 6 weeks, I go four times a week split training.

I'm 6"3 and weight 15.5stone.

I hope someone can help me understand a little better, I have read just about every guide out there and still don't know it all 

Thanks

Andy


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Hey Andy, welcome to the board.

Your body wont react to the incoming carbs immediately, it will take a while to adjust from running off ketones to running off glucose. (24 hours or more if you've been on trace carbs for two weeks)

However I wouldn't concern yourself too much with slipping out of a ketogenic state, the benefits of a refeed far outweigh any potential downsides of having to get back in to keto.

You will find however that after a few cycles you will find it easier and easier to slip back in to keto, as your body becomes more adept at using ketones as a fuel source.


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## andybtsn (May 18, 2010)

Thanks for clearing that up mate


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

excuse my ignorance but is this lyle mcdonalds ckd diet or a version of it?

also has anyone ever tried the ro-cho diet?


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## Finchy (Jun 14, 2009)

Got form said:


> excuse my ignorance but is this lyle mcdonalds ckd diet or a version of it?
> 
> also has anyone ever tried the ro-cho diet?


First time i've heard of the ro-cho diet. Whoever's version of a CKD it is though, are they not all fundmanetally the same?


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## stl (Apr 12, 2009)

> First time i've heard of the ro-cho diet. Whoever's version of a CKD it is though, are they not all fundmanetally the same?


Rotational carbohydrate aka Carb cycling.

This diet differs because you shouldn't reach ketosis, you have Med/High Carb days within short periods of time at preset intervals (usually!) i.e pre/post workout,breakfast etc


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## Finchy (Jun 14, 2009)

I know this is an obvious question but I can take it can't I that whether CKD or low carb or whatever, you still have to drop your calories to drop fat?


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## Graham Mc (Oct 15, 2009)

BUMP


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Lyle Macdonalds version of this is called the Ultimate Diet 2.0, and i can vouch, as I'm doing it at the moment, that it is VERY effective at cutting fat but keeping lean mass even for us Natty's out there!

Everything in the book is made clear, structured and is very easy to follow. I wont lie- it is hard (glycogen depletion workouts are brutal) but it is the best diet I have ever tried (and I've done most of them!)

I would recommend reading the book even if your not interested in doing the diet as it is very informative on the physiological processes of fat loss.

I know i sound like a Lyle Macdonald rep but the man is very respected in the field and really does know what he is on about!

With regards to keeping fat low when you carb up: when you are glycogen depleted the body will shuttle incoming carbs straight into the muscles (glycogen supercompensation) but will still continue to burn fat for fuel (I eat around 6000kcals on my carb up and still lose fat). If you eat a high fat intake your body will burn the incoming fat instead of bodyfat, you probably wont gain any fat overall but you wont lose any either, simples.


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