# Size = Strength?



## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi guys, just something that has been worrying me for a while now.

I feel that i look stronger than i actually am, my muscles are large but not particularly dense.

My current training which i do every other day is;

Curls - 3 sets of 10 reps with 1 min break

Triceps - lift bar from behind my head up 3 sets of 10 1 min break

Reverse curls - 10 reps x 3 1 min break in between

Shoulders both out infront and to the side - 3 sets 10 reps with a 1 min break

Bench press - 3 sets 10 reps

Flies - 3 sets 10 reps

Bent over rowing - 3 sets 10 reps

Sit ups with weights on my chest

My diet is ok (considering im a beginner) and i supplement with protein 3 times a day so i have enough protein.

I am getting bigger using this routine but i don't feel strong.

Is there any changes / different routines i can do to help me get stronger.

Thanks for any help i hope this makes sense to you, i am certainly confused!


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Basically to make my point clear, there are boys at my school that a no were near my size but in a wrestle etc they match me for strengh. I realise this may be genetic to a certain degree but im sure i could train for strengh.

hehe love n kisses


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

If your training for strength lower your reps.

Around 1-4 reps is thought to be the best for strength.


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

1-4 reps of very high weights?

I always thought a lower weight and high rep would increase strengh by making muscles leaner / more endurance


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Liam said:


> 1-4 reps of very high weights?
> 
> I always thought a lower weight and high rep would increase strengh by making muscles leaner / more endurance


Erm...how would muscle endurance give you more strength? They are opposite ends of the scale lol.

Near 1 rep max (very heavy weight) for minimal reps produces best strength gains. Around 15-20 is endurance i think.

Look at it this way, cross country runners, usually pretty skinny.

100m sprinters, big powerful quads - generally speaking.


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

thanks babe, can i just do this along side my current training or do i need to train strengh / size seperately


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Doing both would be over-training.

Train one or the other, but even whilst training on one you will be gaining both - kind of 2 birds with 1 stone but will get better results on whichever one you choose.

Go for strenght you get size with it.

Go for size, strength comes to.

Just depends which goal is more important to you.


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Ok thanks i think for the moment i will continue how i'm going get some size on me then i'n a month or two i'll switch and go for more strength.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

start doin squats and deadlift or youll end up with big bod and twig legs- not a good look


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## kevo (Aug 7, 2003)

Liam said:


> thanks babe, can i just do this along side my current training or do i need to train strengh / size seperately


Lol, any time sugar


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## mickus (Aug 30, 2007)

Liam for strenght and size as ah24 has said aim for no less than 4 and make sure you fail at 6 reps... So you do the three sets as usual with two warum sets of 12 and 15 or something along those lines then last set make it working set to failure in which you only reach a max of 6 reps but no less than 4 and you will get strenght gains from this plus size to boot


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## tiptoe (Jun 22, 2007)

liam mate if you are wnating to increase strengh have a go at this routine. do monday wednesday friday and weekend off

Back traps biceps

deadlift 3x4-6

Chins 3 x 4-6 (add weight if need be)

Shrugs 2 x 4-6

Barbell curls 3x4-6

Chest shoulders triceps

incline press 3 x 4-6

dips 3 x 4-6 (add weight if need be)

dumbell shoulder press 2 x 4-6

clean and press 2 x 4-6

close grip bench press 3 x 6-8

legs

squat 3x 4-6

leg press 3 x 4-6

sitff legged deadlift 3 x 4-6

calve raises 3 x 6-8


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

paulo said:


> start doin squats and deadlift or youll end up with big bod and twig legs- not a good look


I agree don't neglect the legs.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, you guys need to think of strength in diffrent ways than just liniar.

If one can run a marathon then would he not be a strong long distance runner?

If one could do the splits and was super flexible then would not he have strenght in range of motion?

Strength comes in many sizes, shapes and colors.

Central nervous system (CNS) is a massive driver of the ability for the body to twitch and have power.

Diffrent fiber types get worked doing diffrent types of exercises.

70% of your 1 rep max will work 90% of your fast and slow twitch muscles.

There is more fast twitch muscles in your hamstrings than your quads.

Keep it simple, genetics play a huge part in strength and endurance along with stamina and flexibility.

CNS takes time to recover, morso than muscle.

If you are looking for strength then stick to basic compound lifts.

I am much bigger than my workout partner but we are about the same strenght with the exception of some lifts.

Sure with strength there is a more likelyhood of having more muscle, same token that with more muscle in theory there should be more strength.

The CNS is the bodies ability to fire.

I myself notice no diffrence in lower reps for size than higher reps and in my case I feel higher reps offer more muscle building properties than low reps.

Stick to basic compound exercises.


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## Conrad1436114525 (Mar 3, 2007)

you little philosopher you! lol clever clogs


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Although there may be genetic exceptions, in general to get bigger you need get stronger.

By all means work in the 8-12 rep range if you believe this genuinely gives you the most size. However, there are a LOT of guys out there who are lifting (for example) 40-50kg in this rep range on bench week in and week out, and then wondering why they aren't growing.

You NEED a decent strength base to gain decent muscle, unless you are a genetic freak.

IMO work on your strength, get your numbers up to decent levels (if they aren't already) and THEN switch to a more hypertrophy-oriented routine when you are able to do your 8-12 reps on bench press with considerably more than your bodyweight on the bar.

It is very rare to see a massive guy not be able to bench/squat/row/deadlift decent numbers.


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

doing 2 sets of 6 how do u know when u go up then when u hit 7 reps? or what lads


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## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

I agree ^^^^^BIG

Just like to add my advice for someone starting to lift that wants to get big.

1. GET PROPER FORM forget about weight for the first 2 months or so and do 10-12 reps to learn form (It is KING).

2. Once you have perfect form decrease your reps and go for strengh 4-6 reps trying to put either a rep or weight on the bar EW

3. When you are lifting decent numbers increase rep range to 8-12 and concentrate on contractions, drop sets HIT, and all the other advanced training methods.

Note: For a "Normal" person this whole process should take AT LEAST 2 years, at which point *if *your progress halts and diet, routine etc is correct THEN *consider *AAS.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

A Bodybuilder freind of mine told me about one of his trainign partners, he was in good shape but wasnt THAT big, and used to do powerlifting. He was told to go from his usual 3 to 8 reps for legs, up to as many as 20reps and withing in a few months his legs grew BIG!

so the story goes any way lol it would seem rep range makes a hell of a difference!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

There is also two parts to every lift, the eccentric and concentric, both of those need attention. Many times I see guys drop the weight to push or pull it back up, they forget that the negative is half of the weight being pushed and needs to be controlled.

I think ego lifters really cheat them selves and an experienced guy that controls the weight in both concentric and eccentric has more room for development and growth.

Ego lifters lift a lot but look like crap.

Ironically yesterday I was watching a bunch of youtube video's on this and it is strange how some guys are pretty strong but have terrible form and half rep things and look like crap.

One dude was doing 600lb shrugs but it looked like just twitches it was so short of range.

Hey more power to him picking up 600lbs from the rack but I do feel if he had used a weight he could get full range of motion on he would find better development.


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## kevo (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm with the whole form issue, I lift lighter on average than most of my gym buddies but I am very conscious of form and a nice slow negative


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

kevo said:


> I'm with the whole form issue, I lift lighter on average than most of my gym buddies but I am very conscious of form and a nice slow negative


I can give you two examples.

My workout partner always trys to do one more rep than me, usually with the worst form ever and I myself use very controlled movements due to injuries.

Now I am bigger than my partner but he is the same strength as me, but he controls nothing, the weight controls him.

If he is on a machine he will rock it back and forth to get that last rep.

I tend to squeeze and use both up and down portions of the lift, my partner just lets the weight drop.

In his eyes it is numbers in my eyes it is control and form.

You can use lighter weight if you control it more and use a slower cadence and probably get more development.


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## Conrad1436114525 (Mar 3, 2007)

i find this whole issue really interesting guys. So many of out gym freinds start lifting becuase their goal is to get big. One day they simply say...im fed up with the way i look and im going to change. Now theres nothing wrong with this, hell, it says alot about ones character when they stand up and decide to act on such a goal, after all it takes time and effort and lots of sacrifices are made. However naturaly lots of these people are so narrow minded in the gymnasium that they simply think "bigger weights, bigger gains" and their form is neglected in the pursuit of their goal.

Personaly im with Kevo on this one, form is central to my training. I started lifting after i went through heavy fitness conditioning for sports after i tore ligaments in me knee playing hockey and rugby. After i recovered, i stopped the gym work, after all the rehabilitation was complete and although my knee wasnt as strong as before, there was no need to keep hitting the gym.

However i just simply started to miss going to the gym regularly, i missed setting myself targets and achieving them. So i started again. Performing the excersises correctly in good form really gave me a buzz. In essence it was the training in itself and not the overall goal of getting big which i loved. And so, i can understand what Hackskii and kevo are getting at here. I just think its a mental thing...it often depends on why you go to the gym in the first place.


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## Conrad1436114525 (Mar 3, 2007)

offo said:


> doing 2 sets of 6 how do u know when u go up then when u hit 7 reps? or what lads


id keep going till you hit 9 reps. In the long run id cycle your training routine between strength (low reps e.g 6) and mass (high rep, say, 12 reps - so not stamina training). when im on low reps i get stronger so that when i alternate back to mass reps i can lift more and can grow bigger. vicious cycle of growth. i switch between different rep reanges every few months when i change my excercise routine.

consider giving this a go Offo, might help


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## rottweiler (Jul 9, 2007)

For strength how many sets of 1-4 reps should you do would you say 5. I heard 5x5 is great for strength.


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## rottweiler (Jul 9, 2007)

How many sets of 1-4 reps should you do for strength, 5? I heard 5x5 is excellent for strength.


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## ALake (Feb 13, 2007)

big said:


> Although there may be genetic exceptions, in general to get bigger you need get stronger.
> 
> By all means work in the 8-12 rep range if you believe this genuinely gives you the most size. However, there are a LOT of guys out there who are lifting (for example) 40-50kg in this rep range on bench week in and week out, and then wondering why they aren't growing.
> 
> ...


How do you get a strength base?


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

ALake said:


> How do you get a strength base?


By strength traning.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ALake said:


> How do you get a strength base?


Basic compound lifts.


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## The Rave (Jun 1, 2007)

I have found that strength to size ratio is completely genetic. My half brother is 20kg lighter than me at 65kg and yet he can bench over 100kg for 10 reps, whereas I can only do 80kg even though I am much bigger and have more muscle mass, his muscle is very hard and mine is relatively soft by comparason. I think a bit of the old Tbol would fix that though....


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Test will fix that better


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## kevo (Aug 7, 2003)

The Rave said:


> though I am much bigger, his muscle is very hard and mine is relatively soft by comparason.


Easy tiger! mg:


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## ALake (Feb 13, 2007)

I do all the compound's like Dips, Bench Dips, Pull Ups, Squats, Presses etc but I also do isolation like curls and lateral raises etc. Is that ok to do both or drop the isolation stuff?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

ALake said:


> I do all the compound's like Dips, Bench Dips, Pull Ups, Squats, Presses etc but I also do isolation like curls and lateral raises etc. Is that ok to do both or drop the isolation stuff?


It depends

IMO you are best served using ALL of your recovery ability to recover from compound movements and not waste energy on isolation stuff.

If you are a competitive bodybuilder who is already strong and massive, but are coming 2nd in your competitions because you have weak biceps, that's the time to start thinking about isolation movements - to bring up the weakness.

However, for 90%+ of trainees, you will be looking primarily for more lean mass - in which case, compounds is the way to go.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

big said:


> It depends
> 
> IMO you are best served using ALL of your recovery ability to recover from compound movements and not waste energy on isolation stuff.
> 
> ...


 I really need to take note of this! basic and it works!!! I over complicate my routine soooooooooo much!!! :crazy: I always tell others to stick to basic compound movements when asked for advice though lol


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## niknaknok (Jun 10, 2007)

Liam said:


> 1-4 reps of very high weights?
> 
> I always thought a lower weight and high rep would increase strengh by making muscles leaner / more endurance


this will cut /tighten you up i agree cut the reps to 4-6 id say after warm up but max out at 5 mate . 10-12 reps low weight is more a cardio thing also but if you want to get bigger do this and try and increase each month


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

niknaknok said:


> this will cut /tighten you up i agree cut the reps to 4-6 id say after warm up but max out at 5 mate . 10-12 reps low weight is more a cardio thing


WTF?! So please explain how exactly 1-4 reps will 'cut/tighten' you up?

And how is 10-12 reps like cardio?!:crazy:


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