# What the f**k do i need to do?



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Hello

I have been to in a kcal deficit since February and ate a maximum of 1800-2000 kcal, which has worked well. My weight is 86 kg. 185 cm.

Regardless of that, it is that when I see the body, it looks really belly and the fat is hanging. I am not doing any lifting program or so. When I sit, the fat rolls arrive, since the body is not tight. Have previously weighed about 80kg, but the body was quite belly as well. My bodyfat percentage is somewhere between 20-30 i think

So what do i need to do now? To eat a lot of food does not work, then I put on a lot of fat again.

PS: Sorry for my english, i live in norway.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Just keep cutting , it gonna take a while but it will be worth it.

Do some sort of resistance training or cardio, if you have no access to cardio/weights just go for a 30 minute brisk walk, every other day.

This will speed up the fat loss considerably.

Don't give up!


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Not sure about your post.....you seem to suggest you have gained 6kg? If so, then you are not eating in defecit? Track your food on MyFitnessPal app on your smartphone.

With regards to your belly. I have lost 13kg in weight and my belly is still there. Weight has disappeared off my hips, around my sides but I understand that the belly is the first place fat goes on and the last place it comes off. You will get there eventually.

Good Luck.


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## jakes (Jun 1, 2017)

Hello mate,

As above, you are likely not eating in a deficit at all as it's very easy to lose track of calories in. Unfortunately I found myself in a situation similar to yours where I badly misjudged my intake, I went from tracking it with MyFitnessPal to doing it in my head, had a test day where I logged everything both ways and my estimation was almost 500 calories out.

The past 62 days I have been hovering around 1200 calories a day and no carbs with a GI above 8. I have lost 30lbs, down from 270 to 240. I can't emphasize how important it is to keep a proper log to ensure your intake is what you expect it to be.

Oh and that is with 0 additional exercise, I walk around in the day but rarely more than a mile or two.

Keep going man, it will be worth it.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> Just keep cutting , it gonna take a while but it will be worth it.
> 
> Do some sort of resistance training or cardio, if you have no access to cardio/weights just go for a 30 minute brisk walk, every other day.
> 
> ...


 Dude, i think u have misunderstood. Search up skinnyfat on google, and u will see, same as me.

I have to little musclemass i think, and its therfor i look fatter than i really are.

PS: Why cant i answer the people over me? I cant find the answer button..


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

jakes said:


> Hello mate,
> 
> As above, you are likely not eating in a deficit at all as it's very easy to lose track of calories in. Unfortunately I found myself in a situation similar to yours where I badly misjudged my intake, I went from tracking it with MyFitnessPal to doing it in my head, had a test day where I logged everything both ways and my estimation was almost 500 calories out.
> 
> ...


 What do you weigh? this sounds ridiculously low calories.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Dude, i think u have misunderstood. Search up skinnyfat on google, and u will see, same as me.
> 
> I have to little musclemass i think, and its therfor i look fatter than i really are.
> 
> PS: Why cant i answer the people over me? I cant find the answer button..


 I missunderstood nothing, and yes you really are that fat!

25-30% bf is fat no matter who it's on.

The reason you're losing weight but not fat is you're trying to lose it just by reducing calories, the body doesn't like to burn fat for fuel so you have to make it do so by burning it whilst doing either cardio or resistance training (or both).


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> Dude, i think u have misunderstood. Search up skinnyfat on google, and u will see, same as me.
> 
> I have to little musclemass i think, and its therfor i look fatter than i really are.
> 
> PS: Why cant i answer the people over me? I cant find the answer button..


 You need to be lifting weights to build the muscle. You CAN build muscle and lose fat at the same time. I don't know why people keep saying you can't. When more advance it would be more difficult but at your level you can be building muscle and losing fat. Don't get confused by this skinny fat thing. Just keep dieting and dropping the fat.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> You need to be lifting weights to build the muscle. You CAN build muscle and lose fat at the same time. I don't know why people keep saying you can't. When more advance it would be more difficult but at your level you can be building muscle and losing fat. Don't get confused by this skinny fat thing. Just keep dieting and dropping the fat.


 How? I am thinking to eat 2500 kcal, and trying to put on some musclemass.

If i just keep going down in weight, then i will NEVER get rid of that belly fat, because my musclemass is so little, and then i look alot fatter then i really am


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> I missunderstood nothing, and yes you really are that fat!
> 
> 25-30% bf is fat no matter who it's on.
> 
> The reason you're losing weight but not fat is you're trying to lose it just by reducing calories, the body doesn't like to burn fat for fuel so you have to make it do so by burning it whilst doing either cardio or resistance training (or both).


 Dude, how do u think my body will be if i am just losing weight/fat, and not adding any muscle on my body? Tighter, or just a alot thinner version of myself, with the belly fat?

Search skinnyfat


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Dude, how do u think my body will be if i am just losing weight/fat, and not adding any muscle on my body? Tighter, or just a alot thinner version of myself, with the belly fat?
> 
> Search skinnyfat


 The more work you put in the more you will get out.

If you just continue on a calorie deficit with no cardio or weights, you will just be a thinner version with the belly fat.

If you start and do cardio, running, swimming, walking etc whatever it takes to burn fat plus some weights you could look like the pic below in months.

Here's an example of skinny fat to lean.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

You are what is referred to as "skinny fat", fella, meaning you carry a load of fat around your midsection but have very skinny arms. It's genetics, there's not an awful lot you can do about it and it will be very difficult for you to build an aesthetic physique. Your best bet is to continue with your diet until you've lost as much fat as possible from around your midsection and then do a long, gradual bulk and try to build some muscle on your upper body to create the illusion of a better taper.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> How? I am thinking to eat 2500 kcal, and trying to put on some musclemass.
> 
> If i just keep going down in weight, then i will NEVER get rid of that belly fat, because my musclemass is so little, and then i look alot fatter then i really am


 Stay at 2000 calories and start a weight lifting program. Full body 2-3 times a week focusing on big compounds exercises. An example could be a leg/hip exercise (squat/leg press/dead lift/lunges) pic one or swap between workouts. Then horizontal press and pull. This could be flat bench press and dumbell rows. Then vertical press and pull. This could be overhead shoulder press and pull ups/cable pull downs.

It will take time so don't expect to be transformed in couple weeks. It will take several months to make visible changes.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> The more work you put in the more you will get out.
> 
> If you just continue on a calorie deficit with no cardio or weights, you will just be a thinner version with the belly fat.
> 
> ...


 Yes, that guy to right is my goal ish. But do u really think that he got that body from doing cardio/kcal deficit and no lifting weights?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> Yes, that guy to right is my goal ish. But do u really think that he got that body from doing cardio/kcal deficit and no lifting weights?


 Read it again, he says lifting weights.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> You are what is referred to as "skinny fat", fella, meaning you carry a load of fat around your midsection but have very skinny arms. It's genetics, there's not an awful lot you can do about it and it will be very difficult for you to build an aesthetic physique. Your best bet is to continue with your diet until you've lost as much fat as possible from around your midsection and then do a long, gradual bulk and try to build some muscle on your upper body to create the illusion of a better taper.


 Haha, what do u mean by very difficult to build a good physique? What is it more difficult for me, than the pic of the guy over u?


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## jakes (Jun 1, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> What do you weigh? this sounds ridiculously low calories.


 Hi mate,

As of this morning, 16 stone 12 lbs. Starting weight 19 stone 4. The idea is to hit 15% BF and then up calories, get on the starting strength to rebuild.

My diet consists of Huel and Tuna, multivitamins, synephrine / caffeine. Some days, like today, I've dropped 450 cals of Huel and went for beef jerky and popchips instead purely because liquid diets are grueling and sometimes you need to taste something other than tinned fish or synthetic sweetener.










There have been a few times I've messed up and binged but only about 5 days out of ~70.

Back OT, *log everything you eat young man*, you will likely be surprised. From working out your BMR, it would appear you are only ~100 cals off a day, there are ~3500 in a pound of fat meaning it will take you a month to lose 1lb if you do not create more of a deficit with exercise or intake reduction.










As above, the healthiest way is to start driving change in the gym. I've had great recommendations for the starting strength program although your mileage may vary. Don't worry about people telling you how you will look and don't worry about it, you will look good regardless of how big your arms are. Don't focus on a specific body image, focus on health and you will get there.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> Stay at 2000 calories and start a weight lifting program. Full body 2-3 times a week focusing on big compounds exercises. An example could be a leg/hip exercise (squat/leg press/dead lift/lunges) pic one or swap between workouts. Then horizontal press and pull. This could be flat bench press and dumbell rows. Then vertical press and pull. This could be overhead shoulder press and pull ups/cable pull downs.
> 
> It will take time so don't expect to be transformed in couple weeks. It will take several months to make visible changes.


 Ok ok.

But why does the guy above u say that i will never get a aesthic physqiue, because i am skinnyfat? Is that just bullshit, or true?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> Ok ok.
> 
> But why does the guy above u say that i will never get a aesthic physqiue, because i am skinnyfat? Is that just bullshit, or true?


 He said difficult not impossible. Genetics do play a big part but you can always make improvements.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> He said difficult not impossible. Genetics do play a big part but you can always make improvements.


 I see.

But whats ur advice to me? Should i continue kcal deficit, which again will mean no musclemass, or should i be on a maintance with a high protein, and lifting hard to try adding/tighting up my body?


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

jakes said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> As of this morning, 16 stone 12 lbs. Starting weight 19 stone 4.
> 
> ...


 Wow this is just so unhealthy!

1200 calories a day at 16st 12 (236 lbs).

What you are doing is not healthy, you are basically starving yourself and I absolutely guarantee you will put a lot of weight back on when you rebound!

It's up to you what you do but It doesn't have to be right.

10 x bodyweight in calories/lbs is the minimum calories I would go when just dieting, and even this is low.

For you that would be 2360 calories per day equalled out with 40% protein 40% carbs and 20% fat.

What you are actually doing is chronic undereating with the the calories you are taking in, yes you are losing weight but are only going to end up looking like o.p (skinny fat) because you will be burning muscle.

When the body doesn't get enough calories it turns off certain important functions like hair and skin health.

Also eventually your metabolism with crash and ultimately can lead to long term thyroid problems.

The most common issue that comes from chronic undereating is hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar, insomnia is another problem, hair loss, mood swings, cravings and binge eating.

The synephrine / caffeine won't be helping either as it effects your cortisol levels (stress hormone).


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> I see.
> 
> But whats ur advice to me? Should i continue kcal deficit, which again will mean no musclemass, or should i be on a maintance with a high protein, and lifting hard to try adding/tighting up my body?


 You could eat at a maintenance so your weight stays the same and lift weights with the aim to increase you strength by progressively lifting heavier.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Haha, what do u mean by very difficult to build a good physique? What is it more difficult for me, than the pic of the guy over u?


 Because you have comically wide hips, narrow clavicles and you carry the vast majority of your body fat around your midsection. And you can't change any of that, it's all inbuilt with your genetics. Compare that to somebody who naturally has a tiny waist, broad clavicles and carries most of their body fat in their hamstrings and glutes and it might hit home that you're going to have a much more difficult time building an appealing physique.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> You could eat at a maintenance so your weight stays the same and lift weights with the aim to increase you strength by progressively lifting heavier.


 Ok. But will i build some muscle on this way? Also just being in maintance?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> Because you have comically wide hips, narrow clavicles and you carry the vast majority of your body fat around your midsection. And you can't change any of that, it's all inbuilt with your genetics. Compare that to somebody who naturally has a tiny waist, broad clavicles and carries most of their body fat in their hamstrings and glutes and it might hit home that you're going to have a much more difficult time building an appealing physique.


 So what now then?

And where do u get that i have comically wide hips? Do u really think that i have that?


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Being that high body fat I wouldn't worry about eating in a surplus I would concentrate on cutting mate, lift weights and eat in a deficit then once you hit your bf goal focus on adding muscle


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> And where do u get that i have comically wide hips?



View attachment IMG_1841.JPG


View attachment IMG_1843.JPG


Look at the difference in waist/hip to clavicle ratio between the two pictures. That's why I'm saying you have wide hips. But surely you can see that by looking at the picture?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> View attachment 142540
> 
> 
> View attachment 142541
> ...


 Dude, i dont want a physique like that.

What about this? Possible? https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/1137/b06bd1c0-212f-0134-7ab2-060e3e89e053.jpeg?w=740&h=975&fit=crop&crop=faces&auto=format&q=70


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Dude, i dont want a physique like that.
> 
> What about this? Possible? https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/1137/b06bd1c0-212f-0134-7ab2-060e3e89e053.jpeg?w=740&h=975&fit=crop&crop=faces&auto=format&q=70


 Maybe but you'll have to lose a ton of fat and gain 15lbs of muscle first.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> Maybe but you'll have to lose a ton of fat and gain 15lbs of muscle first.


 How?

Kcal deficit and lifting together doesnt work. Need to choose one of them. Thinking of maintance, high protein and lifting hard


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> How?
> 
> Kcal deficit and lifting doesnt work. Need to choose one of them. Thinking of maintance, high protein and lifting hard


 A calorie deficit does work. Unless you have some kind of medical issue you're not telling us about it's pretty much impossible to use more calories than you consume and not lose weight.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> A calorie deficit does work. Unless you have some kind of medical issue you're not telling us about it's pretty much impossible to use more calories than you consume and not lose weight.


 This is for me narrow shoulders and small hips, http://oi1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/danmas75/5v3uz4-1-1.jpg. My shoulders are never like that.

But ok.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> This is for me narrow shoulders and small hips, http://oi1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/danmas75/5v3uz4-1-1.jpg. My shoulders are never like that.
> 
> But ok.


 Yeah, he looks like you but slightly leaner.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> Yeah, he looks like you but slightly leaner.


 Pic taken now. And then compare to the guy above, and say if i and him have like shoulders.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Pic taken now. And then compare to the guy above, and say if i and him have like shoulders.
> 
> View attachment 142543


 :lol:


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

smash00 said:


> Hello
> 
> I have been to in a kcal deficit since February and ate a maximum of 1800-2000 kcal, which has worked well. My weight is 86 kg. 185 cm.
> 
> ...


 Exercise


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> :lol:


 Dude, why are u trolling.

Serious, here u got ur narrow shoulders: http://cdn.scoobysworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/VNCafterwtmk.jpg


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Dude, why are u trolling.
> 
> Serious, here u got ur narrow shoulders: http://cdn.scoobysworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/VNCafterwtmk.jpg


 If you can't see that you've got a weak shoulder to hip ratio by looking at this picture I honestly don't know what to tell you.
View attachment IMG_1840.PNG


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

smash00 said:


> So what now then?
> 
> And where do u get that i have comically wide hips? Do u really think that i have that?


 Why not eat less and move more

hit the weights stay consistent and you'll lose weight I'm down 14 lbs in 3 weeks through not much effort just 2300kcals and resistance training no drugs or cardio yet


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Tricky said:


> Why not eat less and move more
> 
> hit the weights stay consistent and you'll lose weight I'm down 14 lbs in 3 weeks through not much effort just 2300kcals and resistance training no drugs or cardio yet


 Whats the point to continue losing weight? I will just be a much more smaller version of myself. Why not try to add muscle, eating 2500kcal ish?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> If you can't see that you've got a weak shoulder to hip ratio by looking at this picture I honestly don't know what to tell you.
> View attachment 142552


 Yes, but i am talking about narrow shoulders. Not weak. I know that i have weak shoulders, because i dont train, and then my body gets really slupp.

But extremly narrow shoulders? Lol


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Whats the point to continue losing weight? I will just be a much more smaller version of myself. Why not try to add muscle, eating 2500kcal ish?


 Because your fat


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

op, its simple eat in a small deficit and lift heavy weights on all the compound lifts, then when you are a lot leaner and have lost the stomach you can think about bulking up and lifting even heavier weights.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Tricky said:


> Because your fat


 Dude, search skinnfat

I look fatter han i am, because of small amount of musclemass.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

ILLBehaviour said:


> op, its simple eat in a small deficit and lift heavy weights on all the compound lifts, then when you are a lot leaner and have lost the stomach you can think about bulking up and lifting even heavier weights.


 Dont see the point lifting in deficit.

Why cant i lift in maintance with small amounts of carbs and high-protein? Isnt that better?


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Dude, search skinnfat
> 
> I look fatter han i am, because of small amount of musclemass.


 So you start a thread asking for advise then you go on to give advise

ypur fat with no muscle which can't be a surprise to you as your don't even lift ffs or have adequate nutrition to support growth.

You would be safter eating 2000kcals a day whilst lifting heavy and doing cardio.

Or do what you say eat more get fatter gain little mass and look even worse

crack on by all means mate but you need cut


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Dont see the point lifting in deficit.
> 
> Why cant i lift in maintance with small amounts of carbs and high-protein? Isnt that better?


 I'm lifting in a deficit now and I'm recomping. I'm down 14lbs strength is the same up on some lifts. Just focous on 180-200g protein with overall kcals at 2000 and lift weights and do cardio

consistency Is key this isn't a one week journey


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## Eddias (Dec 21, 2015)

lift weights, burns more fat, will increase size of shoulder to hip ratio, and Yep you can lift weights on a kcal deficit most if not all of us here do that when we are cutting. the Weight training does not change that much from bulking to cutting.


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## St. Michael (Mar 29, 2017)

Hi, I haven't read it all so maybe someone has said this already, but of course you have fat rolls when you sit down when you're 20-30%. You'll never lose these sitting fat rolls. I have them at 10-12%. Ignore sitting fat rolls. It's what you see when you stand that counts.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Dude, search skinnfat
> 
> I look fatter han i am, because of small amount of musclemass.


 Lose the excuses, your fat, no classification or name makes it better, you can lose 30lb and look better, hence your fat!! F**k me a spade is a spade and you son are fat, lose some excess blubber and you'll then know you can do it and then put your body into a better position to start adding muscle

dltbb isn't a troll... he is one of the best looking lads on this forum aesthetically so instead of arguing it maybe worth actually listening and stop making excuses!!


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

This thread is a waste of time, and for that reason...


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

smash00 said:


> Dont see the point lifting in deficit.
> 
> Why cant i lift in maintance with small amounts of carbs and high-protein? Isnt that better?


 you can do what the fvck you want but you wont lose that belly anytime soon.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Tricky said:


> I'm lifting in a deficit now and I'm recomping. I'm down 14lbs strength is the same up on some lifts. Just focous on 180-200g protein with overall kcals at 2000 and lift weights and do cardio
> 
> consistency Is key this isn't a one week journey


 How many kcal are u on daily?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Lose the excuses, your fat, no classification or name makes it better, you can lose 30lb and look better, hence your fat!! F**k me a spade is a spade and you son are fat, lose some excess blubber and you'll then know you can do it and then put your body into a better position to start adding muscle
> 
> dltbb isn't a troll... he is one of the best looking lads on this forum aesthetically so instead of arguing it maybe worth actually listening and stop making excuses!!


 I am 84 kg now and have 25% fat percent. If i want to get to 12-15 fatpercentage i need to be at 65 kg, in this tempo..


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Eddias said:


> lift weights, burns more fat, will increase size of shoulder to hip ratio, and Yep you can lift weights on a kcal deficit most if not all of us here do that when we are cutting. the Weight training does not change that much from bulking to cutting.


 How then? Dont i need to eat more, if i want to add muscle? How can i add/get tighter on a deficit?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> I am 84 kg now and have 25% fat percent. If i want to get to 12-15 fatpercentage i need to be at 65 kg, in this tempo..


 No you don't!! Again more excuses!!

84kg at 25% is 21kg of fat 63kg of lean mass

72kg at 12% is 8.63kg of fat and 63.4kg of lean mass

even your excuses dont add up!! Try actually lifting while in a deficit and not making excuses and you'll add muscle and lose fat!


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## Eddias (Dec 21, 2015)

Crack on you know best


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

You need to lift heavy and eat adaquate protein e.g. 180g min at your weight! More muscle you have the more kcals your burn doing nothing it's simple.

At the min your a fat mess making excuses not taking advise! You've a good 30lbs to lose then concentrate on adding muscle by increasing kcals slowly but in the mean time lift heavy rest and eat clean even at 2200 kcals and you'll gain muscle and burn fat as a newbie.


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Tricky said:


> eat adaquate protein e.g. 180g min at your weight!


 How much???

you trying to turn op into obese!


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## Essex666 (May 24, 2017)

Jesus... this thread is amazing.

OP you are blessed that people are still advising you 3 pages in, I have a feeling if I posted something like this, and then started shrugging off everyone's advice, I would make enemies quick.

You asked for advice, the guys have all stated the basics you need to get going, train, eat clean, just use some damn common sense, you are clearly in an unhealthy lifestyle. I weigh 10kg more than you, same height and I am still quite lean. It isn't rocket science mate.

Just train bro... 80% nutrition, 20% training, in 6 months you will thank yourself.

Given that you do limited or no activity... 4 days a week of even just cardio alone will benefit you greatly for a few months! Get your heart healthy, then worry about the muscles.

You have a hell of a lot of studying to do, there is so much information available, if you really want to change your life for the better then you will take the time to read and absorb every bit of information you can!


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

DLTBB said:


> You are what is referred to as "skinny fat", fella, meaning you carry a load of fat around your midsection but have very skinny arms. It's genetics, there's not an awful lot you can do about it and it will be very difficult for you to build an aesthetic physique. Your best bet is to continue with your diet until you've lost as much fat as possible from around your midsection and then do a long, gradual bulk and try to build some muscle on your upper body to create the illusion of a better taper.


 Imo that's bullshit, there are plenty of examples out there of people with similar genetics having built a an aesthetic physique.

Keep at it op but like others have said lose the fat first.


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## Wayno (Aug 5, 2016)

This has gotta be a wind up for sure :lol:


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Your fat, eat in a deficit and lift weights


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Charlee Scene said:


> Your fat, eat in a deficit and lift weights


 Yes and why am i fat? Because to little musclemass. And what will It help me to just keep going down without adding musclemass?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

B3NCH1 said:


> Imo that's bullshit, there are plenty of examples out there of people with similar genetics having built a an aesthetic physique.
> 
> Keep at it op but like others have said lose the fat first.


 I have earlier weighted 76kg. 10 less then now. I had the same amount of fat. Why? Small amount of musclemass.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

smash00 said:


> Yes and why am i fat? Because to little musclemass. And what will It help me to just keep going down without adding musclemass?


 Your not fat because you have little muscle mass you are just fat, you will look miles better being leaner, if you haven't lifted weights before you might even add muscle if you have just started and the leaner you get the more you will see your muscles, you don't seem to understand cutting will make you loose your fat and look better, THEN bulk and add more muscle


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Yes and why am i fat? Because to little musclemass.


 No. You are fat because you consistently ate too many calories.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

B3NCH1 said:


> Imo that's bullshit, there are plenty of examples out there of people with similar genetics having built a an aesthetic physique.
> 
> Keep at it op but like others have said lose the fat first.


 Any examples?


----------



## ghost.recon (Jan 28, 2017)

Just keep training consistent, and diet in check, don't over think and stress over things, it will just raise your cortisol levels. See it this way for example, every meal and training session is one step closer to your final goal. Not at your goal yet? Keep on dieting and keep on training. Simple.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

DLTBB said:


> Any examples?


 The beast that is Jason Genova :lol:









View attachment DSC_0303_KVEEGNZXMK.JPG


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

DLTBB said:


> Any examples?


 Simple fact is if he cuts down to a lean base he'll be able to see his progress better. And lots of people start from skinny.

Example of narrow shoulders and wide hips


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> No. You are fat because you consistently ate too many calories.


 Hahahah.

I have never eat alot of calories. It has ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING to do with food, but genetic. My sister has the same.


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Charlee Scene said:


> Your not fat because you have little muscle mass you are just fat, you will look miles better being leaner, if you haven't lifted weights before you might even add muscle if you have just started and the leaner you get the more you will see your muscles, you don't seem to understand cutting will make you loose your fat and look better, THEN bulk and add more muscle


 U see how my body is after i starter cutting. 10 times worse.

I will start with hard lifting, high protein and lifting at maintance(2,4 k kcal)


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

You need to add muscle. You've got very, very little which makes you look fatter than you really are. That means eating at maintenance or a slight surplus but working your butt off intelligently in the gym.

Here's what I'd suggest:

First, nutrition

You weigh 90 kg give or take, so your calorie maintenance window is

Bodyweight in lbs x 14 to bodyweight in lbs x 17

By bodyweight that puts you at 2700-3400 cal/day

At a guess your bodyfat is sitting somewhere around 25%, so that would mean your LBM is around 67 kg. That would put your calorie maintenance window at 2100-2500 cal/day.

I'd start out at 2500 cal/day and see how you go. Add 100 cal/day every time you stop seeing progress for over 10 days (which will be muscle gain, not scale weight so use the mirror and tape measure).

In terms of macros, because you're not carrying much muscle I'd probably avoid going too high in carbs. Something like 200 grams protein (800 calories), 35% of calories from fat (95 grams or 855 calories) and the rest from carbs mostly from rice, oats and potatoes (215 grams).

This is the advice i got from a guy which is ripped as fuuuck. I think he is spot on.


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

smash00 said:


> U see how my body is after i starter cutting. 10 times worse.
> 
> I will start with hard lifting, high protein and lifting at maintance(2,4 k kcal)


 Look either start lifting and trying to lose weight or shut the f**k up and stay fat, people have given you great advice here but you just keep moaning.

I'm thinking you're just a troll now


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Hahahah.
> 
> I have never eat alot of calories. It has ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING to do with food, but genetic. My sister has the same.


 No.



smash00 said:


> I will start with hard lifting, high protein and lifting at maintance(2,4 k kcal)


 That's fine. See how you get on. You need to do whatever you're most comfortable with and simply starting to weight train is obviously a good step.

Bear in mind longer term that you definitely could still gain some muscle whilst reducing calories enough to gradually lose fat as well. Losing some fat would also be a good idea for your general health.


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

smash00 said:


> You need to add muscle. You've got very, very little which makes you look fatter than you really are. That means eating at maintenance or a slight surplus but working your butt off intelligently in the gym.
> 
> Here's what I'd suggest:
> 
> ...


 To build decent muscle mass you have to be in a surplus and gain weight.

You are around 25% bf, nobody bulks that fat


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

B3NCH1 said:


> To build decent muscle mass you have to be in a surplus and gain weight.
> 
> You are around 25% bf, nobody bulks that fat


 As a beginner you can lose fat and gain muscle.


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

B3NCH1 said:


> To build decent muscle mass you have to be in a surplus and gain weight.
> 
> You are around 25% bf, nobody bulks that fat


 Dude, i dont want to weigh 70kg, that is so thin.

And ho is saying that i will bulk? Bulk is over 3k. I will also add cardio on 2,4/2,5


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

B3NCH1 said:


> Simple fact is if he cuts down to a lean base he'll be able to see his progress better. And lots of people start from skinny.
> 
> Example of narrow shoulders and wide hips
> 
> View attachment 142588


 That's average shoulders and average hips, doesn't look anything like how OP is built.


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> That's average shoulders and average hips, doesn't look anything like how OP is built.


 Ho is OP?


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Ho is OP?


 You.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Ho is OP?


 Original Poster (or Original Post) - so you.


----------



## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

This has got to be a wind up surely you come asking for help, everyone helps you and you dismiss everything that you should actually do but what do we know you obv know best, first thing you need to do though is accept you are overweight


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> You.


 Ok.

But i dont know why u are so fast to answer that i wont build a good physique. Ryan have normal shoulders like me, but he is just ripped. Cant see why i cant build a physique like him, if i train consisent and good.


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Charlee Scene said:


> This has got to be a wind up surely you come asking for help, everyone helps you and you dismiss everything that you should actually do but what do we know you obv know best, first thing you need to do though is accept you are overweight


 Ur advice is that i should continue cut, without getting musclemass, which will be impossible to get if i am under 2 k kcal


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Ok.
> 
> But i dont know why u are so fast to answer that i wont build a good physique. Ryan have normal shoulders like me, but he is just ripped. Cant see why i cant build a physique like him, if i train consisent and good.


 Because not only do you have bad genetics, you're delusional and you're not willing to listen or learn, as demonstrated by your replies in this thread.


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

DLTBB said:


> Because not only do you have bad genetics, you're delusional and you're not willing to listen or learn, as demonstrated by your replies in this thread.


 Bad genetics, ho do u know that? Do u want a body pic of my brother?

Do u think everyone gets born ripped? U dont think u can find millions of guys which has made a good pshyqiue, indepedent if they were born skinnyfat or thin?


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

smash00 said:


> Bad genetics, ho do u know that?


 By looking at you.


----------



## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Do u want a body pic of my brother?


 Body pic of mother will probably be best to assess genetics.


----------



## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

To be fair and no disrespect to @DLTBB but I'm struggling to see width of you hips as your carrying so much fat. Your around 35% body fat I'd say.

You need to learn to take advice, eat slightly under maintenance and lift weights and you will gain muscle mass and loose weight and will look a million times better in 12 months.

Bad genetics or not, with hard work you can defiantly improve your physique and health.

Its as simple as that.


----------



## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

smash00 said:


> How then? Dont i need to eat more, if i want to add muscle? How can i add/get tighter on a deficit?


 Of course you can add muscle mass on a deficit, when i first started training properly i did intermittent fasting and my calorie intake was around 2000kcal on training days, slightly lower on rest days.

My starting weight was 163lb, was strict on diet but not 100%, did this program for 12 weeks, lifting weights 3 days per week.

My finish weight was 155.4lb, My chest measurement increased by 7cm, Biceps increased by 2cm, Hip measurement reduced by 6.6cm!

The advise you have been given is correct and you need to take it onboard, lean down to lower bodyfat, then slowly lean bulk.


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

RRSUK said:


> To be fair and no disrespect to @DLTBB but I'm struggling to see width of you hips as your carrying so much fat. Your around 35% body fat I'd say.
> 
> You need to learn to take advice, eat slightly under maintenance and lift weights and you will gain muscle mass and loose weight and will look a million times better in 12 months.
> 
> ...


 Nop, the bodyfat is 26, have measured it

Anyway. When u are saying slightly under maintance, what do u mean by that? My maintance kcal is 2500. Can we say around 2300?


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

dbol Kid said:


> Of course you can add muscle mass on a deficit, when i first started training properly i did intermittent fasting and my calorie intake was around 2000kcal on training days, slightly lower on rest days.
> 
> My starting weight was 163lb, was strict on diet but not 100%, did this program for 12 weeks, lifting weights 3 days per week.
> 
> ...


 Wow, impressive!

Can i ask u which program u followed?


----------



## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

Nothing fancy, it was a few years ago now so can't remember everything but the main things I did was pull ups, deadlift, bench press and squats.

Obviously I did other exercises and muscle groups. I did legs and biceps on one day, back on another, chest on the other.


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> Wow, impressive!
> 
> Can i ask u which program u followed?


 Any sensible weights training program would work but you need to put the effort in and try to get stronger with your lifts.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Nop, the bodyfat is 26, have measured it


 The actual number is pretty irrelevant but however you measured it won't have been very accurate.



> Anyway. When u are saying slightly under maintance, what do u mean by that? My maintance kcal is 2500. Can we say around 2300?


 You also don't know what your maintenance calorie intake will be once you start training. Any calorie calculator is VERY approximate and although you can use it as a starting point it's ultimately a question of trial and error.


----------



## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

smash00 said:


> Nop, the bodyfat is 26, have measured it
> 
> Anyway. When u are saying slightly under maintance, what do u mean by that? My maintance kcal is 2500. Can we say around 2300?


 Looking at you, you look more than 26, the testers that you done could be well off but it really doesnt matter, as said above the maintenance calculators are very approximate and can be way of you won't actually know untill you start training, pick a calorie amount and lift weights, if you don't lose then reduce untill you are losing weight, when you start to look better (remember as a beginner you will probz add muscle aswell) and leaner you should start bulking and primarilary look to build muscle


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Tricky said:


> Because your fat


 Blunt but exactly right.


----------



## CG88 (Jun 4, 2015)

OP

Eat in a defecit and follow a basic lifting plan, something like SL 5x5 is good for beginners

if you bulk now you will just get even bigger, look even shitter, then be back on here in 6 months time at 40% bodyfat asking for advice


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

dbol Kid said:


> Nothing fancy, it was a few years ago now so can't remember everything but the main things I did was pull ups, deadlift, bench press and squats.
> 
> Obviously I did other exercises and muscle groups. I did legs and biceps on one day, back on another, chest on the other.


 But ur fat percentage before started training wasnt that high, was it? It looked like u have around 20%


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Charlee Scene said:


> Looking at you, you look more than 26, the testers that you done could be well off but it really doesnt matter, as said above the maintenance calculators are very approximate and can be way of you won't actually know untill you start training, pick a calorie amount and lift weights, if you don't lose then reduce untill you are losing weight, when you start to look better (remember as a beginner you will probz add muscle aswell) and leaner you should start bulking and primarilary look to build muscle


 I have measured it at home with a fat percetage thing. Anyway, see this under. I got this answer from a guy.

You can do just what you want, just say what I would do if I were you. The reasons for it are: -

You have very low muscle mass on your body per. now. You definitely have a low BMI that will define you as normal / healthy or even too easy, synonymous with your high fat percentage, I would guess you were about 25% as mentioned before, which is high especially when you Out of BMI standards is actually a thinning.

- You have already been running a long-term deficit, which will further minimize your noob gains on deficits, which will nevertheless be very limited, and hardly enough to "repair" the physics there

- More deficits will be almost guaranteed to relieve the amount of muscle leftover for the above reasons (Long-term loss already) and because you are a beginner when it comes to strength training and diet, it's much easier for you to eat lots and Exercise heavy strength. "If you exercise heavy strength and eat in a good kcal surplus, you will put on muscle mass, and even if you will get some fat in addition, the path to low fat percentage becomes much shorter, for example, a year or two. But it is not rocket research, heavy exercise and kcal excess = muscle mass. It's very simple. And mtp. Your level of knowledge is "Very Easy" something you need right now. You do not need any deficits with all calculations of macro distribution and calorie control. It will lead you even further into nobody's country.

- What is the point of removing fat when there is no muscle mass below there anyway? You do, of course, what you want. But any other tip than this, you will not get from me. I had not considered anything but profit and exercise training training. And when it comes to his other comment on the "Bodybuilder" tip you should rinse to the nearest dass, I could not agree more. Attachments from bodybuilding.com seem simple and smoothly blown.

Do u agree?


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

CG88 said:


> OP
> 
> Eat in a defecit and follow a basic lifting plan, something like SL 5x5 is good for beginners
> 
> if you bulk now you will just get even bigger, look even shitter, then be back on here in 6 months time at 40% bodyfat asking for advice


 40% bodyfat?


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## CG88 (Jun 4, 2015)

smash00 said:


> 40% bodyfat?


 When you gain even more weight


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## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

smash00 said:


> I have measured it at home with a fat percetage thing. Anyway, see this under. I got this answer from a guy.
> 
> You can do just what you want, just say what I would do if I were you. The reasons for it are: -
> 
> ...


 You lost me at you have a low/healthy BMI,

What's your weight and height?

BMI is a load of bollocks, but you do not have a healthy BMI.

EDIT:

BMI from height & weight in OP puts you overweight, but I'd re weigh on different scales to be honest because you look over 86kg if I'm honest...

I don't know who gave you that advice, but telling anyone your size to try add more weight and eat in surplus is ridiculous...

See here

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/849.aspx?CategoryID=51

I guarantee your waist is over 94 cm increasing risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer. Why would you not want to loose weight?

Your nothing to listen anyway so I don't know why I'm bothering.

Your fat, being fat is unhealthy, you need to loose weight.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Fs do what you want there is no helping you fatty


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Charlee Scene said:


> Fs do what you want there is no helping you fatty


 Ok, bye.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

RRSUK said:


> You lost me at you have a low/healthy BMI,
> 
> What's your weight and height?
> 
> ...


 Need to loose weight or loose fat?

My BMI is 25.1.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Do u agree?


 No.


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## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

smash00 said:


> But ur fat percentage before started training wasnt that high, was it? It looked like u have around 20%


 It was more than 20% mate, it's deffo worth cutting till your lean. I felt small but it's the right way to go


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

RRSUK said:


> You lost me at you have a low/healthy BMI,
> 
> What's your weight and height?
> 
> ...


 Most guys on here would be obese according to BMI, I know that I am weighing 96kg at 5ft 9.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Need to loose weight or loose fat?
> 
> My BMI is 25.1.


 Lose fat which is weight

you're fat with no muscle so how about lose that fat then eat in a slight surplus say 300kcals per day and add muscle

Its really that simple and to say you've a low healthy BMi is ludicrous your obese


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Tricky said:


> Its really that simple and to say you've a low healthy BMi is ludicrous your obese


 BMI is totally flawed but FWIW he's nowhere near being underweight on a BMI chart. If he currently weighs 86 kg he's actually closer to the overweight range.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

"Like I said...You have the lower body and you have no upper body, you got a problem building...wait a minute. You have the upper body, and you have no legs, you got a problem building your legs. You have the upper...you have the lower body and you don't have the upper body, the upper body, it is easier to build. So if you have the lower body and you don't have the upper body, it is easier to build the upper body. You have the upper body and you don't have the legs, you got a problem building the lower body... No, you don't understand. You have the upper body, but you don't have the lower body, you got a problem building downstairs. You got the up- legs on the bottom, it is easier to build on the top, so you don't have much as a problem. Yeah."


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> BMI is totally flawed but FWIW he's nowhere near being underweight on a BMI chart. If he currently weighs 86 kg he's actually closer to the overweight range.


 I know bmi is pointless as it's just height and weight but he quoted saying his bmi was low/healthy when it's not at his height and weight according to the bmi chat he is borderline obese


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Tricky said:


> I know bmi is pointless as it's just height and weight but he quoted saying his bmi was low/healthy when it's not at his height and weight according to the bmi chat he is borderline obese


 I was adding to your point, not contradicting it.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

dbol Kid said:


> It was more than 20% mate, it's deffo worth cutting till your lean. I felt small but it's the right way to go


 Ok. But u dont remember how much calories u eat? Was it more/less then 2000?


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Tricky said:


> Lose fat which is weight
> 
> you're fat with no muscle so how about lose that fat then eat in a slight surplus say 300kcals per day and add muscle
> 
> Its really that simple and to say you've a low healthy BMi is ludicrous your obese


 I weighted me now, and it sais around 86kg.

Anyway, i will try to lift and eat in deficit, but how much do u reckommend? Should we say around 2200? Or under 2000?


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> BMI is totally flawed but FWIW he's nowhere near being underweight on a BMI chart. If he currently weighs 86 kg he's actually closer to the overweight range.


 Yes, i am 86kg. My BMI sais i am normal. But i now that i need to add muscle and remove fat

Anyway, i will take ur advice and follow it, but i am still unsure about the calorieintake i need to have? I am personally thinking about 2100-2200 calories, which is slighlt deficit, and i dont want to be that much in deficit, because i know that i will burn calories when i am going to work/and lifting etc


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Dude, forget BMI, it's useless to you. Going by that chart I'm classed as obese yet I have a 6-pack...

Have you even joined a gym yet??

Seriously you're wayyyyyyy overcomplicating this. Start lifting weights a few days a weeks with intensity (meaning put some effort in) and do cardio 4-5 days a week while keeping your calories in a slight deficit. If you have no idea what calories you should be eating then start off at 2000 cals with 1g of protein per lb bodyweight. Check scales every week and aim to lose 1-2lb a week maximum, if you lose more then raise cals slightly, if you lose less then lower cals slightly.

That's all the information you need in order to get where you want to be. Starting Strength program would be a good foolproof place to start.

http://startingstrengthmirror.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Three_Flavors_of_Starting_Strength


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

anabolik said:


> Dude, forget BMI, it's useless to you. Going by that chart I'm classed as obese yet I have a 6-pack...
> 
> Have you even joined a gym yet??
> 
> ...


 I have heard that i should put on 2 gram per bodyweight protein? I am thinking around 185 gram?

And why do u reccomend cardio so much? 4-5 days is alot.


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## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

smash00 said:


> Ok. But u dont remember how much calories u eat? Was it more/less then 2000?


 i was on 1920kcal on training days. on non training days i only had 40g of carbs so calories was less than that.

To be honest i was on too little calories, i didnt do any cardio, so i would recommend just eating 2-300kcals under maintenance and keep adjusting slowly so you keep losing weight slowly.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

dbol Kid said:


> i was on 1920kcal on training days. on non training days i only had 40g of carbs so calories was less than that.
> 
> To be honest i was on too little calories, i didnt do any cardio, so i would recommend just eating 2-300kcals under maintenance and keep adjusting slowly so you keep losing weight slowly.


 How was ur protein intake? 2 gram per bodyweight?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Anyway, i will take ur advice and follow it, but i am still unsure about the calorieintake i need to have? I am personally thinking about 2100-2200 calories, which is slighlt deficit, and i dont want to be that much in deficit, because i know that i will burn calories when i am going to work/and lifting etc


 Pick a number, try it, and it you're not losing fat, reduce it by 100 kcal. Repeat until you are losing fat.

As for protein, I'd suggest about 150g per day for you as a sensible figure. Have a bit more if it helps stop you feeling hungry but don't go above 200g per day.


----------



## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

smash00 said:


> How was ur protein intake? 2 gram per bodyweight?


 1 gram per lb bodyweight


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Pick a number, try it, and it you're not losing fat, reduce it by 100 kcal. Repeat until you are losing fat.
> 
> As for protein, I'd suggest about 150g per day for you as a sensible figure. Have a bit more if it helps stop you feeling hungry but don't go above 200g per day.


 Why cant i go over 200 gram? Isnt it better to eat more protein, then less?


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

dbol Kid said:


> 1 gram per lb bodyweight


 So little?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Why cant i go over 200 gram? Isnt it better to eat more protein, then less?


 I gave you a sensible range. Too much protein limits the amount of carbs and fat you can eat for the same calorie total, and both are beneficial. They are also cheaper.

For someone aiming to gain muscle the evidence is that the most the body actually benefits from is around 0.8 g per lb of bodyweight BUT the data is for fairly lean athletes. Some more might be beneficial when focusing on fat loss though, in part for stopping you feeling hungry as I mentioned above. These were my thoughts in suggesting the range I did to you.


----------



## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

smash00 said:


> So little?


 1g protein per lb of bodyweight isn't that small, you can go higher but I still really go by that now, if I'm bulking I will go a bit higher.

Why do you think that is so low?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

smash00 said:


> I have heard that i should put on 2 gram per bodyweight protein? I am thinking around 185 gram?
> 
> And why do u reccomend cardio so much? 4-5 days is alot.


 That recommendation is for your lean bodyweight so 1.5g per lb would be plenty for you as you're carrying quite a bit of excess weight. Like I said don't overthink this too much. You're quibbling over little details when you should have already joined a gym and be on your way to your goal.

4-5 days cardio would be optimal. If you can't do that much then do what you can.

The main thing you need to stick to is the calories and a base level of protein. Basically eat whatever diet/foods you find easiest to stick to consistently. Trying to keep your macros in certain ranges isn't need at all for you at this level. I've been training for nearly 10 years and I don't have a specific diet, I eat whatever the hell I want as long as I get my protein in for the day. If I'm dieting I simply track my calories and make sure I don't go over for the day. Simple as that.

Have you joined a gym yet?????


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## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

No he hasn't, of course not, he won't take any advice and will still be in the same position in 12 months, but it won't be he's fault.

It will be genetics, or this forums or anyone's but he's own fault.

You've asked for advice and disputed everyone's advice at every possible chance.

And let's face it, most people on here are in better shape than you, so obviously have a better grasp at diet and training.

Eat less, train more. Its really that simple.

If you do these two things you will see improvements.

I honestly can't see how people have still the patience for this...


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I gave you a sensible range. Too much protein limits the amount of carbs and fat you can eat for the same calorie total, and both are beneficial. They are also cheaper.
> 
> For someone aiming to gain muscle the evidence is that the most the body actually benefits from is around 0.8 g per lb of bodyweight BUT the data is for fairly lean athletes. Some more might be beneficial when focusing on fat loss though, in part for stopping you feeling hungry as I mentioned above. These were my thoughts in suggesting the range I did to you.


 Which training program should i follow?


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

dbol Kid said:


> 1g protein per lb of bodyweight isn't that small, you can go higher but I still really go by that now, if I'm bulking I will go a bit higher.
> 
> Why do you think that is so low?


 Dont know, but i have heard that u build muscle faster/better if u eat more protein, then less. A place between 1,6/2 gram.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Dont know, but i have heard that u build muscle faster/better if u eat more protein, then less. A place between 1,6/2 gram.


 If you're reading decent evidence based sources then those figures will be per kg of body weight, not per lb.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Which training program should i follow?


 Step one is to join a gym. The single most important thing to do to begin with is to simply start training, so any routine you fancy trying is likely to be fine.

Quite what is suitable will depend what exercises you're comfortable doing and how much time you want to spend training but to give one suggestion you could try this:

https://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

DLTBB said:


> That's average shoulders and average hips, doesn't look anything like how OP is built.












Simple fact is OP needs to lose weight then add muscle slow, you can build a good physique no matter what your genetics.


----------



## Wayno (Aug 5, 2016)

B3NCH1 said:


> Simple fact is OP needs to lose weight then add muscle slow, you can build a good physique no matter what your genetics.


 If he took some of this advice on board by now he may well of lol


----------



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Step one is to join a gym. The single most important thing to do to begin with is to simply start training, so any routine you fancy trying is likely to be fine.
> 
> Quite what is suitable will depend what exercises you're comfortable doing and how much time you want to spend training but to give one suggestion you could try this:
> 
> https://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696


 Interesseting. But isnt it better to do full body workout programs, when i am new, or?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

B3NCH1 said:


> Simple fact is OP needs to lose weight then add muscle slow, you can build a good physique no matter what your genetics.


 What the f**k. What a transformation

Do u have the transformation to that guy, and what he did?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Interesseting. But isnt it better to do full body workout programs, when i am new, or?


 If you want to do a full body routine instead then do so. As I said above what you pick is less important than just starting to lift, and in a way that means you end up sticking with it.

But is there hard evidence that a whole body routine would definitely be better for you? No. Or I would have suggested it.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you want to do a full body routine instead then do so. As I said above what you pick is less important than just starting to lift, and in a way that means you end up sticking with it.
> 
> But is there hard evidence that a whole body routine would definitely be better for you? No. Or I would have suggested it.


 What do u think of Blaha ICF 5X5 program? I am thinking to do that.

I will eat around 2000-2200. And high protein. And low carbs, or should i eat alot of carbs?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> What do u think of Blaha ICF 5X5 program? I am thinking to do that.


 Try it if it appeals to you.



> I will eat around 2000-2200. And high protein. And low carbs, or should i eat alot of carbs?


 Aim for a tighter calorie range of you can. I'd aim for 2200 kcal to start. Bear in mind you'll be using more calories because of the training.

I'd keep things simple and just focus on calories and protein to begin with.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Try it if it appeals to you.
> 
> Aim for a tighter calorie range of you can. I'd aim for 2200 kcal to start. Bear in mind you'll be using more calories because of the training.
> 
> I'd keep things simple and just focus on calories and protein to begin with.


 I will keep a high protein, and low carb. Will start with 2200 kcal.

Thanks for the advices.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> I will keep a high protein, and low carb. Will start with 2200 kcal.
> 
> Thanks for the advices.


 Just in case this has got missed I'll say I'd still be thinking only up to 200g of protein per day. I also wouldn't deliberately go really low carb as this may adversely affect your training.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just in case this has got missed I'll say I'd still be thinking only up to 200g of protein per day. I also wouldn't deliberately go really low carb as this may adversely affect your training.


 Thinking about 185 gram, more or less.

What do u think about 200 gram carbs, is that alot? And around 65 gram fat.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> What do u think about 200 gram carbs, is that alot? And around 65 gram fat.


 Sounds good.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sounds good.


 But do u think that i will build any muscle? 2200 is pretty low.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

smash00 said:


> But do u think that i will build any muscle? 2200 is pretty low.


 Join a gym and find out. At your level I don't see why you would not build muscle.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> But do u think that i will build any muscle? 2200 is pretty low.


 It's not very low, you have a fair amount of body fat and by the sound of it you've never done any weight training, so yes. You may very well need to drop calories further to start losing fat but the answer would still be yes.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's not very low, you have a fair amount of body fat and by the sound of it you've never done any weight training, so yes. You may very well need to drop calories further to start losing fat but the answer would still be yes.


 Ok. But i am unsure if i should do this workout:

MONDAY - Back and Bicep

Lat pull down
Bent over row
Close grip row
Shrugs
T bar rows
Biceps curl
Hammer curl

TUESDAY - Chest and Triceps

Bench press
Incline flyes
Press ups
Decline flyes
Triceps extension
Skull crushers
Kick backs

WEDNESDAY - Leg Day

Stiff leg deadlifts
Smith or bar squats
Leg curl
Leg extension

THURSDAY - Shoulders

Shoulder Press
Side Laterals
Front Raises
Log Press

Or ICF 5X5?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Ok. But i am unsure if i should do this workout:
> 
> MONDAY - Back and Bicep
> 
> ...


 Stop asking questions and actually do something  . Either routine would be infinitely better than the zero training you're doing right now!

(My earlier comments on training routines still apply.)


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## BeingReborn (Aug 27, 2015)

Op, have you been on some kind of medication that has stacked weight on?

I think your diet sounds very, very low cal. I know women a fraction of your size that eat more.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

BeingReborn said:


> Op, have you been on some kind of medication that has stacked weight on?
> 
> I think your diet sounds very, very low cal. I know women a fraction of your size that eat more.


 What do u mean?

My diet has made med gone down -10kg. So it definitely works.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Why is this. The breast

The first pic i am around 82 kg, and lower fatpercentage. The second pic i am 88 kg and fatpercentage 26-30. Do u think that i have that new because of my fat percentage? Will it get away if i lift and run?

It looks like i have more on the second fat. Maybe because i am fatter?


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

smash00 said:


> Why is this. The breast
> 
> The first pic i am around 82 kg, and lower fatpercentage. The second pic i am 88 kg and fatpercentage 26-30. Do u think that i have that new because of my fat percentage? Will it get away if i lift and run?
> 
> ...


 if you put weight on and have higher bodyfat of course you are going to look fatter. Seriously wtf did you expect to happen.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

ILLBehaviour said:


> if you put weight on and have higher bodyfat of course you are going to look fatter. Seriously wtf did you expect to happen.


 Hahah

Is this called gyno or wtf? Because i have never seen that my breast are fatter, untill now..


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

smash00 said:


> Hahah
> 
> Is this called gyno or wtf? Because i have never seen that my breast are fatter, untill now..


 its most probably just fat so either follow the advice everyone has given you on this thread or start looking for a bra.


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Just lift 3x a week and do cardio on the days inbetween. I went from 14.7 to 12.4 doing exactly that, cutting on 2400 calories a day. Yeah, looked s**t but the fat was gone.









...and now its back cos im a greedy fat f**k :lol:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Kill Kcal said:


> Just lift 3x a week and do cardio on the days inbetween. I went from 14.7 to 12.4 doing exactly that, cutting on 2400 calories a day. Yeah, looked s**t but the fat was gone.
> 
> View attachment 142687
> 
> ...


 You obviously don't look 's**t' there, although you know this  .


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> You obviously don't look 's**t' there, although you know this  .


 No chest, no traps, still slight belly, no actual size. Just a lean body.

Edit: I guess s**t was over the top, but you know what I'm getting at.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Kill Kcal said:


> No chest, no traps, still slight belly, no actual size. Just a lean body.
> 
> Edit: I guess s**t was over the top, but you know what I'm getting at.


 I know but equally you look in better shape than most men and I'm sure the OP would be delighted to look like this.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Thread was painful to read almost on par with @vegmusclez :lol:


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## woodsyy (Nov 12, 2011)

IMO your in to much of a deficit, you need to increase cals to maintenance for a few days, get your head clear then come back down by 100 cals for 1 week. week 2 bring them down by 50 and do this each week, but if you start losing too much weight for example 3 or more pounds in a week just up the cals slightly. on the other-hand you could add in a refeed day every two weeks to kickstart your metabolism into gear and start burning fat more rapidly.

hope this helps mate, maybe even research on insulin sensitivity, i say this because when i learnt how the body metobilizes calories and insulin levels it was much clearer how to manipulate food to do what you want.

i didnt even read the whole thread just the damn title


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Kill Kcal said:


> Just lift 3x a week and do cardio on the days inbetween. I went from 14.7 to 12.4 doing exactly that, cutting on 2400 calories a day. Yeah, looked s**t but the fat was gone.
> 
> View attachment 142687
> 
> ...


 Wow, dude. Can i ask u if u have the before photo, before u started training? How high was ur fat percent before u started, over 20-25?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I know but equally you look in better shape than most men and I'm sure the OP would be delighted to look like this.


 His body is wow.

But, however its possible for me to get a physique like that is a another question.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

I have been cutting for some months now, and my weight now is 85kg. Happy with the weight, but not with the physique. My fat percentage is 25%.

I will start working out as hell, after i come home from vacation now in june. Do u guys reckommend me cardio too, or is it enough just being in kcal deficiti?

But why is my chest like that? Because fat? See the body under( me for 2 years ago ), and u see that the chest is much skinnier, and not so "big".


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> I have been cutting for some months now, and my weight now is 85kg. Happy with the weight, but not with the physique. My fat percentage is down to 24%.
> 
> I will start working out as hell, after i come home from vacation now in june. Do u guys reckommend me cardio too, or is it enough just being in kcal deficiti?
> 
> And thanks for all the answers.


 Cardio is just another way of achieving a calorie deficit. Eating 100 kcal less or using an extra ticket 100 kcal doing cardio has the same effect on fat loss.

I would start with no cardio given simply starting training will make you much more active than you're used to. You can add on cardio later if needed.


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

smash00 said:


> Wow, dude. Can i ask u if u have the before photo, before u started training? How high was ur fat percent before u started, over 20-25?


 Unfortunately no I don't, was too embarassed at the time lol. Not sure on BF% but wasn't happy!


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Kill Kcal said:


> Unfortunately no I don't, was too embarassed at the time lol. Not sure on BF% but wasn't happy!


 Aha ok. Which program did u follow then?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Cardio is just another way of achieving a calorie deficit. Eating 100 kcal less or using an extra ticket 100 kcal doing cardio has the same effect on fat loss.
> 
> I would start with no cardio given simply starting training will make you much more active than you're used to. You can add on cardio later if needed.


 Ok, i see.

But the chest. What is it like that? Too much fat? Will it get flatter when i start to train, and the body gets "tighter"?


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

smash00 said:


> Aha ok. Which program did u follow then?


 Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 and cardio on pretty much every rest day. Like 45 minutes at 6kmh on max incline. Or mixture of jogging/running and walking for a distance of 5km.

So compound lifts and treadmill.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Ok, i see.
> 
> But the chest. What is it like that? Too much fat? Will it get flatter when i start to train, and the body gets "tighter"?


 I think it's just a fat problem but the only way to categorically find out is for you to lose a lot of fat.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Kill Kcal said:


> Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 and cardio on pretty much every rest day. Like 45 minutes at 6kmh on max incline. Or mixture of jogging/running and walking for a distance of 5km.
> 
> So compound lifts and treadmill.


 Ah good, good! I will also do ICE 5x5, how did u like the program?

But is it nescesarrry do to cardio? Isnt Cardio is just another way of achieving a calorie deficit?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> I think it's just a fat problem but the only way to categorically find out is for you to lose a lot of fat.


 My stomach fat is reduced. I was 95 kg for 2-3 months ago.

But the chest is still the same as it was on 95 kg, weird. When i look at this guy, the first picture, its exactly as my chest when sitting, and look at him now. https://cdn.muscleandstrength.com/sites/default/files/field/image/transformation/michael-lee.jpg. I also think its fat, but weird that the size havent gone down regardless if i have gone down 10-11 kg.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> My stomach fat is reduced. I was 95 kg for 2-3 months ago.
> 
> But the chest is still the same as it was on 95 kg, weird. When i look at this guy, the first picture, its exactly as my chest when sitting, and look at him now. https://cdn.muscleandstrength.com/sites/default/files/field/image/transformation/michael-lee.jpg. I also think its fat, but weird that the size havent gone down regardless if i have gone down 10-11 kg.


 Stop looking at other people and just worry about you.


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

smash00 said:


> Ah good, good! I will also do ICE 5x5, how did u like the program?
> 
> But is it nescesarrry do to cardio? Isnt Cardio is just another way of achieving a calorie deficit?


 I like eating food - I need to do Cardio.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> What the f**k. What a transformation
> 
> Do u have the transformation to that guy, and what he did?


 Lost some fat and lifted... the end!! Your worrying about routines and stuff like it will make or break your training!! Instead of typing find a gym and pick any well known beginners routine and lift!!


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Lost some fat and lifted... the end!! Your worrying about routines and stuff like it will make or break your training!! Instead of typing find a gym and pick any well known beginners routine and lift!!


 Yes u have started.

But do u also reccomend lifting in a small deficit?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Yes u have started.
> 
> But do u also reccomend lifting in a small deficit?


 You need more than a small deficit to start losing a decent amount of fat. You should aim to lose at least 1lb per week.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ok. I weighted me today, and the weight show that i am around 83,5 kg. Really happy with that. U can clearly see that i have removed some of the fat, but still, when i sit, the fatrolls is really visible.

Will start lifting tomorrow, still a bit unsure if i should go with 2000 calories or up to 2400 calories, afraid to add alot of fat again.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

smash00 said:


> Ok. I weighted me today, and the weight show that i am around 83,5 kg. Really happy with that. U can clearly see that i have removed some of the fat, but still, when i sit, the fatrolls is really visible.
> 
> Will start lifting tomorrow, still a bit unsure if i should go with 2000 calories or up to 2400 calories, afraid to add alot of fat again.


 Read through this thread again - I'm sure everything relevant has already been said. Repeatedly IIRC.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Read through this thread again - I'm sure everything relevant has already been said. Repeatedly IIRC.


 Yes, i have lest everything.

The advice is that i should start lifting, and eating in 2200-2400 calories. And add cardio.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Yes, i have lest everything.
> 
> The advice is that i should start lifting, and eating in 2200-2400 calories. And add cardio.


 Then get it fu**ing done and stick to it. First few weeks you'll drop when you slow take 200kcals a day off. When it stalls next time increase cardio. Next time reduce 200kcals and increase cardio after that look to add clen at 60mcg ed if you want

its so so so so easy, eat less move more and look at the scales once and week to see the 1-2lb loss for motivation to keep plugging away


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Kill Kcal said:


> Just lift 3x a week and do cardio on the days inbetween. I went from 14.7 to 12.4 doing exactly that, cutting on 2400 calories a day. Yeah, looked s**t but the fat was gone.
> 
> View attachment 142687
> 
> ...


 did you mean 14.7 stone to 12.4 stone yeah?


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> did you mean 14.7 stone to 12.4 stone yeah?


 Yes mate.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Kill Kcal said:


> Yes mate.


 cool!

How long did that take you in total?


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> cool!
> 
> How long did that take you in total?


 I honestly couldn't tell you, getting down to 13 stone was a piece of piss though. I suppose even down to 12.7 wasn't that bad but I wasn't really taking rest days as if I wasn't lifting, I'd more than likely do 45-60 mins on the treadmill, max incline at around 6kmh.

Just to add, I'm in the process of doing this again, I would have been in the gym 10 days today alternating cardio with lifting.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Kill Kcal said:


> I honestly couldn't tell you, getting down to 13 stone was a piece of piss though. I suppose even down to 12.7 wasn't that bad but I wasn't really taking rest days as if I wasn't lifting, I'd more than likely do 45-60 mins on the treadmill, max incline at around 6kmh.
> 
> Just to add, I'm in the process of doing this again, I would have been in the gym 10 days today alternating cardio with lifting.


 How many calories were u eating? and whats your height? Sorry if i missed those details


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