# Do squats, deads, bench, OHP and Pull Ups cover everything?



## EricTheViking (Nov 23, 2010)

Cos that's all I do down the gym. Along with a low carb diet. My main goals are to be less than 10% bodyfat. Around 14% at the moment. Oh and Cardio on my off days.


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Add some rows and you're golden.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Yep pretty much, also bent rows are another good one like has been stated.

Sticking to those movement or atleast base your workout around them and you wont go far wrong


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

No they dont cover everything lol


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## NICK_1 (Jan 27, 2009)

And possible add some dips too.....?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Arms will get hammered from all the pressing/pulling, but throwing in a few sets of curls/dips once a week would be good assistance work.


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

just wanna say one thing, if you want big arms...train your arms.

all this squat and your arms will grow, deadlift and you arms will grow...is BS.


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

nc007 said:


> just wanna say one thing, if you want big arms...train your arms.
> 
> all this squat and your arms will grow, deadlift and you arms will grow...is BS.


 It does work for your first 3-6 months IMO,after that they need to be isolated too


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

xpower said:


> It does work for your first 3-6 months IMO,after that they need to be isolated too


Yer first year of training , compounds are best i think.

after that its over lol


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

IMO much like xpower has said begineers dont need to do curls... skinny people dont need to do curls/isolation movments, I love seeing guys who just train arms, having no chest or back or "thickness" to there bodys they just look stupid.

Compounds>Isolation

A friend has just started the gym and under some bad advice and his own ignorance his chest routine features lots of crap like cable flyes, pushdowns etc... just benching would give him far greater gains, specially considering he is benching twice a week because he doesnt wanna do legs


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

nc007 said:


> Yer first year of training , compounds are best i think.
> 
> after that its over lol


I agree but wouldnt say its over, sticking to compounds and then adding isolation in as assitance work once your at a decent size is the way to go


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

AND just realised this is the strength and power forum... So isolation can **** off all together 

SQUATS & MILK all day


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## Fountain (Nov 25, 2009)

So you're suggesting first year of training (approximately) Full body - compounds, would be good.

after that look at splits/isolation?


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Fountain said:


> So you're suggesting first year of training (approximately) Full body - compounds, would be good.
> 
> after that look at splits/isolation?


Short answer is, yes I am.


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## Fountain (Nov 25, 2009)

That's cool, why though? unless of course a plateaus reached with the compound stuff, that makes sense.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

nc007 said:


> just wanna say one thing, if you want big arms...train your arms.
> 
> all this squat and your arms will grow, deadlift and you arms will grow...is BS.


You have a lot to learn.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

If a plateaus is reached simple deload and start again, there just isnt any need for isolation movement in a begineer imo, and I cant be bothered to google right now evidence to give my arugment any real weight other than simple broscience  sorry


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## EricTheViking (Nov 23, 2010)

nc007 said:


> just wanna say one thing, if you want big arms...train your arms.
> 
> all this squat and your arms will grow, deadlift and you arms will grow...is BS.


Are you talking from a Bodybuilding persepective or a Powerlifting perspective.

I can't see how being able to do lots of curls and other ***** exercises is going to help my core strength.

As for this "isolations are a waste after the first year of training" viewpoint ... are you telling me the key to strength after a year's training is curls and shrugs?


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## Fountain (Nov 25, 2009)

haha, that's fair enough, i know its what a lot of people say to do, i just wonder the science behind things thats all


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

nc007 said:


> just wanna say one thing, if you want big arms...train your arms.
> 
> all this squat and your arms will grow, deadlift and you arms will grow...is BS.


totally disagree, if u want big arms start pressing and pulling weights up in the 200kilo range....once ur lifting like tht...uv got big arms end of story....if u think curls will match a weighted chin up or even a snatch grip deadlift....ur never gonna b big mate


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

EricTheViking said:


> Are you talking from a Bodybuilding persepective or a Powerlifting perspective.
> 
> I can't see how being able to do lots of curls and other ***** exercises is going to help my core strength.
> 
> As for this "isolations are a waste after the first year of training" viewpoint ... are you telling me the key to strength after a year's training is curls and shrugs?


Like I said I only just realised this is in the strength and power forum so there is no need to ever do a single curl really unless its out of vanity or feeling alittle curious


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

XJPX said:


> totally disagree, if u want big arms start pressing and pulling weights up in the 200kilo range....once ur lifting like tht...uv got big arms end of story....if u think curls will match a weighted chin up or even a snatch grip deadlift....ur never gonna b big mate


great post

like JP said, you'll have big arms if you're pulling and pressing big numbers.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

When you say you should be pulling and pressing in the 200kg range, I assume you're talking about dips and deadlift?

Because I can't imagine many people will ever reach a pullup with 100+kg or a bench of 200kg. That seems a little extreme just to get decent sized arms.


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

Matt 1 said:


> You have a lot to learn.


im sure i do fella.

next year ill have over 20inch arms.

simples.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

A 200kg dips?


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

XJPX said:


> totally disagree, if u want big arms start pressing and pulling weights up in the 200kilo range....once ur lifting like tht...uv got big arms end of story....if u think curls will match a weighted chin up or even a snatch grip deadlift....ur never gonna b big mate


i know mate big compounds i do them ...every now and then.

i preffer just diong db rows for back tbh ...instead of deadlifting now

just like hack squating/leg pressing instead of barbell squats

and dont realy benchpress anymore

and shoulders i preffer supersetting side raises like my freind showed me (250kg raw bench freinds...who now dosent realy bench either lol) do heavy weight x10 med x10 light x10...thats a set. do x3 same for front raises...just what i preffer atm...

im sure ill change with time just like everything does.


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## phys sam (Jan 11, 2008)

nc007 said:


> im sure i do fella.
> 
> next year ill have over 20inch arms.
> 
> simples.


Pics or it didn't happen lol


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

Here's how I look @ it!

Compound movements are great for generally building up the muscle groups, they do in a sense 'cover all' or most avenues with regard to muscle growth.

You can build a decent physique by just using the compound movements and that's why many people advocate it, especially for beginners.

However, if you want to bring up weakenesses in your physique your going to have to go beyond compound movements and start experiementing with isolation techniques etc..

Now I bought into the ole 'squat and your arms will be big' , I didn't do any curls for a long time whilst training (in fact I only properly added an arm workout 10 weeks out from my first show)

The result of not doing and curling movements for arms, for me, was pathetic sized and conditioned arms! So in short, whilst I accept that complete beginners need not isolate their arms at first, it is an important part of keeping a weaker body part in balance with other areas.

The same applies for everything, if you have a weaker body part that doesn't respond well with compound movements, maybe you need to try different methods and possibly try different exercises.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> A 200kg dips?


Well yea, that's more likely than a 200kg bench press. Dipping with 100kg strapped round your waist is more attainable at around 100kg bodyweight than benching the equivalent weight.


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

:lol:


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

anabolik said:


> Well yea, that's more likely than a 200kg bench press. Dipping with 100kg strapped round your waist is more attainable at around 100kg bodyweight than benching the equivalent weight.


I bet to differ, and that wouldnt be a 200kg dip, that would be a 100kg dip... Strapping 200kg round your waist would make it a 200kg dip

Alot of people on here can bench 140kg+ 1 rep max and some for reps and other bench over 200kg+


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Lift big to get big. Simples.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> I bet to differ, and that wouldnt be a 200kg dip, that would be a 100kg dip... Strapping 200kg round your waist would make it a 200kg dip
> 
> Alot of people on here can bench 140kg+ 1 rep max and some for reps and other bench over 200kg+


So you're saying your bodyweight has no effect on your dips? You can't just say your bodyweight doesn't count in a dip, that's just silly. For instance I can do 5 dips with 20kg around my waist but can only bench 85kg for 5. Are you seriously suggesting that my bench is stronger than my dip when I weight 95kg myself?

It's well known that you can push more weight in the decline/dip position than a flat bench, so if you're right then how come I'm benching 65kg more than I dip?

Seems you're arguing over semantics....obviously it's "called" a 20kg dip but the actual weight your pressing includes your bodyweight.

I'm not sure why you're arguing over this? Obviously when you dip you are dipping your bodyweight, you can't deny that.


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## littlesimon (May 24, 2010)

nc007 said:


> just wanna say one thing, if you want big arms...train your arms.
> 
> all this squat and your arms will grow, deadlift and you arms will grow...is BS.


Funnily enough my biceps are touching 19" without training them directly, mind you it's probably genetics.

Anyways, I'd add some barbell rows and your golden mate

All I do is Squat, Bench, OHP, Deadlift and Row.


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

In fairness to marcfranco, if someone said to me, I dipped 50kgs on monday - I wud have expected them to dip their bw+ 50kg strapped to them - not that they weighed 50kg and did that -

So anabolik I think your in the wrong and your the one being pedantic ;0)


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

In fairness to marcfranco, if someone said to me, I dipped 50kgs on monday - I wud have expected them to dip their bw+ 50kg strapped to them - not that they weighed 50kg and did that -

So anabolik I think your in the wrong and your the one being pedantic ;0)


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

54und3r5 said:


> In fairness to marcfranco, if someone said to me, I dipped 50kgs on monday - I wud have expected them to dip their bw+ 50kg strapped to them - not that they weighed 50kg and did that -
> 
> So anabolik I think your in the wrong and your the one being pedantic ;0)


Cheers  I actually stopped reading his post because he started to confuse me im not sure what hes getting at


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Geez you guys are being anal about this.

Obviously when you say how much you dip you say the weight you added to your bodyweight. It's just how it's done.

BUT you can't discount the weight of your own body if you're looking at the actual amount of weight you're pushing in the exercise. Do you understand?

If you just do bodyweight dips then by your thinking you would be pushing no weight at all lmao

Do you see what I'm saying??


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

No stfu


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

brb doing bodyweight dips for 1000 reps because there is no weight being pushed....


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

LOOK

when you do chins/pullups/dips

say you do 10, thats 10 x BW (bodyweight)

Say you add 20kg and do 10, thats 10 x 20kg

Now, using me for example weighing around 100kg, you seem to think you would say 10 x 120kg if i was to add 20kg

But people dont do it like that because its ****ing gay


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

54und3r5 said:


> Here's how I look @ it!
> 
> Compound movements are great for generally building up the muscle groups, they do in a sense 'cover all' or most avenues with regard to muscle growth.
> 
> ...


 That's what I was trying to get across


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Are you even listening to what I'm saying?

Of course when you say how much you're chinning/dipping you say how much weight you add in the form of plates. BUT you're still actually chinning/dipping that weight plus your bodyweight. Add it up, numbers don't lie.

I'm not saying everyone should start adding their bodyweight onto their chinning/dipping numbers, that would just be confusing and stupid. I'm just saying that in reality they are actually moving their bodyweight as well as the weight they add.

I don't want to argue over this with you man, I'm just trying to get my point across.

I see what you're trying to say, can't you see what I'm getting at?


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## Team1 (Apr 3, 2008)

Agree with Mark franco

i wish i spent my first two years training doing almost all...bench, deads, ohp, pullups, squats, rows and dips. If i could go back i would do this and make curls and other small beer at that point much less frequent.


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

Dips...pmsl


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

anabolik said:


> Geez you guys are being anal about this.
> 
> Obviously when you say how much you dip you say the weight you added to your bodyweight. It's just how it's done.
> 
> ...


Yes I understand what your saying. I am educated, I am not a complete idiot! If anything you are being anal with this! Your bodyweight is a variable, it can constantly change! When I go to the gym and I do dips I would record

Bw x 10

20k x 10

40k x 10 etc

I don't jump on the scales everytime I do a sodding dip and add my bodyweight to it :S

Yes you are pushing your own bodyweight aswell, I accept that there is a thing called gravity, I learnt this theory at a relatively young age wouldn't you believe!

But the argument that your advancing is just pure nonsense...


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

littlesimon said:


> Funnily enough my biceps are touching 19" without training them directly, mind you it's probably genetics.
> 
> Anyways, I'd add some barbell rows and your golden mate
> 
> All I do is Squat, Bench, OHP, Deadlift and Row.


Could be to do with your 20stone


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## EchoSupplements (Jul 19, 2010)

Regarding arms if you're doing those 5 moves then squats and deads won't give you big arms particularly but OHP/Bench/Pull Ups will help especially if you do chins as well as pull ups.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

54und3r5 said:


> But the argument that your advancing is just pure nonsense...


I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing here.

I'm saying when you dip/chin you are doing the weight plus your bodyweight. That is literally all I'm saying here. And you just agreed with me.....why are you getting so angry dude?

I'm NOT saying when I record what I did in my workout I add my bodyweight to the weight I had around my waist. I NEVER said that!

I'm not even sure why we're still arguing over this to be perfectly honest.

I agree with you guys that you only officially count the actual weight you add to your bw in chin/dips etc.

And you've both agreed with me that your bodyweight is a factor in the weight you can dip/chin.

There's nothing more to say.


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not getting angry. Just your initial post was a little confused, maybe you put your opinion across wrong...

Anyway ill put away the shotgun...


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Well I agree I'm not the best at transferring my thoughts into language someimes mate.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Group hug!!! :beer:


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## Team1 (Apr 3, 2008)

nc007 said:


> Dips...pmsl


not a very useful post. care to expand?


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

anabolik said:


> When you say you should be pulling and pressing in the 200kg range, I assume you're talking about dips and deadlift?
> 
> Because I can't imagine many people will ever reach a pullup with 100+kg or a bench of 200kg. That seems a little extreme just to get decent sized arms.


I was tlkin about benching and bent over rows for both 200kgs.... But still dips and chins ye get them both in a range where uv got 100kg attached to u.....those shud b ur targets if u want arms over 20 inches IMO. Url hav 50 inch chest whilst ur at it too


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## littlesimon (May 24, 2010)

nc007 said:


> Could be to do with your 20stone


fatceps :lol:


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

nc007 said:


> Could be to do with your 20stone


And I'm fairly sure he didn't get to that by doing curls and kickbacks lol


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## nc007 (Nov 21, 2010)

Im



Team1 said:


> not a very useful post. care to expand?


arguing about dips... 



martin brown said:


> And I'm fairly sure he didn't get to that by doing curls and kickbacks lol


Im sure he wouldnt.

A good strength base is needed imo to get big.


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## Team1 (Apr 3, 2008)

so you recon dips aint a good exericse then?

short posts liek "Dips LOL" are not worth making are they? Thats the kinda post that puts people off using UKM as they are not in any way helpful and seem like they are just belittling with no reasonable post to explain.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

that combination will make you grow without doubt..... as would leg press... bent over rows...incline dumbell press.... dumbell shoulder press... cleans


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