# Swollen ankles/feet



## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Hey people,

Wondering if you can help me here.

Just recently, maybe the last week I have experienced a lot of swelling around feet and ankles such as that it is painful to wear shoes.

I am on my 3rd week of Test/Tren cycle.

Is this just water retention? If so, how would I know.

I'm probably up round 4 litres a day consumed.

The swelling feels solid though.

Bit confused.

Cheers

Chris


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

Time of the month? :lol:

Seem strange to me TBH. I had no bloat on test/tren, and the more water you drink the more you are likely to expel, so I doubt it's retention. Have you been on your feet more the last few days or injured them and not noticed?


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Not sure Darren.

I had a notion for a while that maybe they just got bigger on the gear and then my shoes became tight, which in turn led to more swelling.

Then I wondered why the hell my feet would get bigger, not like I have been doing alternate toe curls 

The only thing I can think of is that the other night when we had the boat on fire and the people in the water I was running around for hours in cowboy boots lol.

Maybe that is the problem, might invest in a nice comfortable pair of loafers and see if it calms down.


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## Jem (Mar 5, 2009)

cowboy boots :lol: :lol: :lol: that's brightened up my day no end :beer:


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

I'd go with the cowboy boots option. Seems the most likely cause.


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Tel mentioned high BP maybe??

Will get that checked tomorrow as well.


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

hmmm dont think it will be caused by the gear tbh could defo be a blood pressure/hearty thing or possible a gout type thing!! best get it checked just in case

have them up as much as possible over the weekend, as long as they are above your groin the sweling will drain to the lymph nodes in your groin

you can get some herbal water tablets from boots too if you want... aqua ban or there are some others in a blue box with yellow writing, they may help and bit!!


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

See my post on your thread mate, get it checked out pronto


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm sure that Chris is well used to having his legs above his head :whistling:

Sorry, lowering the tone.

Do your feet feel sore when not in shoes? I find that walking a lot, especially in uncomfortable shoes, sets my feet off.


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nah, they're fine, no pain, nothing.

Just uncomfortable in tight shoes thats all.

My dad has gout, but that is painful I believe, and he didn't get it for years.

Probably just getting fat lol, cankles


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sounds like oedema to me.


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Sounds like oedema to me.


yea its defo odeama hacks but we are trying to figure out why hehehehe :laugh:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

When you press firmly on the swollen areas for a few seconds and then release, is there a depression which takes a while to re-fill?

Or do your feet and legs feel swollen solid and no real depression is formed?

Are the swollen areas warmer than elsewhere?


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

There sure is Patrick. Just done it twice now and there is a little indentation.

Doesn't feel swollen if you know what I mean, without touching it or seeing it they feel normal out of shoes.

No warmer, "feels" normal when out of shoes.


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Just looked up that posh word that you said Briar and Hacks and it may be water after all??


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

Chris1 said:


> Just looked up that posh word that you said Briar and Hacks and it may be water after all??


yea it will be babe just not sure why u have it!! there can be a few causes!!

id suggest if your father has a history of gout best to get it looked at!! any heart probs in the family?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

You have classic oedema, Chris.

Please stop taking any more gear or supplements for now and go see a doctor tomorrow.

Drink a reasonable amount of water, but not an excessive amount. If your pi$$ is water clear rather than pale straw colour (and you're not on vitamins which can make your pi$$ yellow) you're drinking too much.

I think extra nagnesium may actually exacerbate oedema.


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Can a lack of exercise exacerbate this?

Basically I spend 99% of my day sat down or asleep?

Would more exercise help.

I'll drop the magnesium, which actually coincidentally I started the same time as the gear and could be a reason.

Wouldn't just stopping gear cause more problems Patrick?

At the risk of sounding ignorant, could it not just be because I was running round like a loon for 3 hours in uncomfortable shoes?

My urine is a little dark still if anything actually hence why I have upped the water intake the last maybe day, maybe 2.

Jesus, I'm cr*pping myself now!!!!


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

No problems at all re organs Briar.

I have one perfectly functioning kidney and one which is hanging in there, which was a birth defect.

My heart is healthy, my liver I am unsure.

Not as active as I could be either. Maybe should get more exercise?


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Right, I've jus done some research online, and now I have satisfied myself that I am not about to suffer an immediate and horrendous death I am a bit more relaxed.

Looking at the choices logically and taking all things into account I would suggest (and YES I will go and get this checked properly), it is either, a lack of water, or the liver under strain poss from alcohol.

Linking it with the colour of my urine I would deffo say it points to this, so I will ask for a blood test, they may be able to do onboard. Get the old liver function tested out just in case.

I will knock the alcohol dead, it's just not worth it, also the supps for now, although I think the Milk Thistle may still be a good shout?

Thats that really, until I get it looked at properly.

May request going to see a private doctor ashore in Southampton as I am not so sure about the ones onboard.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

The most usual cause of classic oedema is a lazy heart, followed by reduced kidney function.

You won't keel over suddenly, Chris, but it's important to find the cause.

Tren can cause heart irregularity, and was thought to stress the kidneys, but you'd prob have kidney ache if this were the case. I'd be surprised if it were the gear. Have you expereinced any heart palpitations or "heartburn"? Bad night sweats mean you'd need more water.

I don't like many supplements, like magnesium and milk thistle, which many medics do not rate. A multi-vit is OK but a good diet will supply almost everything you need.

If you had stressed your legs and feet with tight boots you'd be very unlikley to have oedema: the swelling would be hard and warm and have disappeared by now.

Sitting and not walking enough can indeed cause oedema. But a sudden burst of walking and running and regular cardio would eliminate it.

Sometimes people get oedema on night shifts because their body is out of synch.

Anyway, get it seen to!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

It's just a bit of water around you lowest limbs caused by the gear.

Gear makes you hold salt and the body takes on water to balance tha salts, even when you are careful and keep bloat down it can pool at your feet after a long day on your feet

I get it too, No big deal. I noticed sock tops leaving a dent when been on feet all day, I wouldn't worry chris.

Goes when I cruise so it is gear related


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Ok guys, been to the docs this morning.

The Edema we stablished is a Gravity Edema with slight pitting.

Basically everyone suffers from it to some degree as the day goes on, often you will find your feet and ankles more swollen at the end of the day just due to gravity pulling the water in your body down to your feet.

Then when you sleep at night the water re-distributes, especially if you keep your legs slightly raised, as this allows the water to drain back towards your lymph glands.

We deduced that this was most likely caused by the magnesium tablets.

Magnesium helps to regulate BP, it does this by dilating the blood vessels, it is often used by medics intraveinously when heart conditions arise. This exacerbated the normal swelling that happens due to gravity.

Answer, stop taking magnesium. It does all fit in with the time frame when we discussed it, allowing for the time taken for the magnesium tablets to take effect.

Phew 

Now, for information purposes only, and you should always get this checked by a medical proffesional.

He explained to me why it couldn't have been the following reasons.

Heart:

When it is your heart, the fluid is caused by the heart backing up fluids. These fluids empty into your lungs and then into your legs. If my heart had been the cause I would have had severe resperatory problems first long before any swelling had occured. Chances are that lying down would have been a struggle, let alone walking a few feet.

Liver:

If it had been my liver then aside from pain, there would have been yellowing of the skin, especially around the eyes.

Kidneys:

Well, I knew this from personal experience, the pain you suffer when kidneys are strained is like no other pain in the world.

However, aside from that, kidneys cause an all over swelling, so my fingers, face etc would have been massive.

The words "face like a chipmunk" were used as a description.

So, it is nothing for me to worry about. We discussed alsorts after that and it was nice to get the opinons of a doctor for a change. He spoke alot of sense.

Basically, all supps are rubbish "he said". Now, I am not convinced all of them are, however he explained that Supps are not regulated by any governing body such as the FDA, therefore they could have anything in them. He, and I believe he is correct, agrees that all nutrition, vitamins and minerals should come from solid good wholesome food (something I know many of you believe strongly in).

He also reccomended dropping protein shakes, however I do believe they have there place.

I'll copy and paste this into my journal and will come back later when I have more time and tidy it up with more technical descriptions for those that are interested, might help someone.

So, in conclusion, I am fine, no need to stop gear. Cut back on alcohol, sleep with legs slightly raised until swelling completely goes (it has already dissapeared in right leg).

Knock most of the supps on the head, especially magnesium.

Eat well, train hard and rest 

Chris


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

When you go on gear, especially something like tren, you tend to monitor yourself much more closely than normal looking for dreaded issues, it's easy to trot every daft little thing up to major organ failure.

Keep and eye on your self but keep it real.

I'm a bit like you I guess Chris - I can spend 16 hour a day on my feet n a bad day....not many people do that. That's why I'd seen it before


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Yes, but it is definately worth checking out though, as in 10 years I've never had that and that was back when i was on cargo ships standing all day long.

It goes to show that not all supps are good for you, trial and error.

TBH Uriel, it takes a bullet wound to get me to the doctors normally, but these were so bad I couldn't get shoes on which needed addressing.

I do over analyse stuff, and yes, more so now the gear is in, but if you look at the list of things it could be you gotta get it seen to. In my heart I knew it was nothing more, but then last night I got the fear bad lol.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Excellent news, Chris! :thumb:


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Chris1 said:


> Yes, but it is definately worth checking out though, as in 10 years I've never had that and that was back when i was on cargo ships standing all day long.
> 
> *It goes to show that not all supps are good for you, trial and error.*
> 
> ...


Great news Chris but......................

Playing Devils Advocate again:rolleyes:

We can't be selective what we believe and don't believe in Doctors, ask him his

opinion on AAS, see what he says and see if you believe him:whistling:

Just because said doc says all supplements protein blah blah blah doesn't mean

sh1t mate.

Just think about it

Just saying


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I've always thought you can get everything you need from a whole food diet but you really need to put some thought into it.

Supps are supps, they are meant to fill in holes in your diet.

It's not natural to eat gramms or zinc of magnesuim ar anything else so being surprised they upset the applecart should not shock anyone.

The odd protein shake a day is OK by me but eating some fresh beef, then fish, chicken, eggs and nuts seems so much better - lovely


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## Old but not out (Sep 8, 2009)

Chris1 said:


> Just looked up that posh word that you said Briar and Hacks and it may be water after all??


Water without a doubt - you need an AI


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

I agree mate, in fact its fact 

The point I was trying to deliver was that on the whole, in my experience of Doctors they

know Jack


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

good news chris


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

They do, but he was a doctor for a South african rugby team, so I would hope he would be a little bit more savvy towards our kind.

TBH Tel, I treat Doctors 90% of the time with contempt, thats why I always read up before hand and try not to go in ignorant, and thats why i asked for the anatomy lesson. Everything he said made logical sense. It has to be the magnesium, nothing else has changed.

Sure the amount of gear has, but I was on orals for ages before.

Supps have there place, but I have never found anyone who could honestly say that solid food is not far superior. I did not agree with the Protein shake theory he gave me.

It was to black and white, he just said it's sh1t, end of. Well its not though is it. If you can't stomach all the meals you need in a day then yes a shake will be better than nothing, but you're surely robbing yourself of all manner of other goodness by avoiding the whole food?

Thats why I still believe things like Omega fish oils, Vit C and, with my kidneys, cranberry extract are not such a bad idea. Magnesium I tried because I believed I had high BP, turns out I'm just a spaz who can't use a machine properly.

My BP is bang on perfect. If I had gone to a doctor rather than use an ill fitting amazon bargain buy he would have been able to tell me that and avoided all this.

So, even doctors have there place in this world I guess


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

tel3563 said:


> I agree mate, in fact its fact
> 
> The point I was trying to deliver was that on the whole, in my experience of Doctors they
> 
> know Jack


Doctors train and are experienced in looking after normal people.

When you start training like us, you are no longer normal. The things we do stresses your body to the max. It burrns through certain nutrients and compunds ata phenomilal rate trying to repair what we have just done.

Doctors don't know or care about it unless they are sport specialists.

Your normal 5 a day fruit diet will leave a bodybuilder fuked in no time.

You need to learn what damage you do to your body, learn what nutrients it gets through and what it needs to revbuild and you need to learn to supplement with them for the best results.

It's not easy


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Uriel said:


> Doctors train and are experienced in looking after normal people.
> 
> When you start training like us, you are no longer normal. The things we do stresses your body to the max. It burrns through certain nutrients and compunds ata phenomilal rate trying to repair what we have just done.
> 
> ...


Agree with all that but I was more talking about personal experiences

Doc told me I hadn't broke foot, I had

Doc told me I didnt have food poisoning, I had Salmonella

Doc told me I'd never kickbox, play footy or do weights ever again, I did and do

Doc told gf's dad he had a sore neck for a year, he had cancer

Doc told my mum pain in leg was arthritis for 2 years till it turned out to be a

blood clot which got to her brain and gave her a stroke

Thats what i mean mate


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I'll add one more thing my misses has told me (she sees treats and discharges patienst as a practitioner).

90% of a diagnosis is based on your history. If you omit anything or miss guide the physician (like gear use) you don't really have a realistic chance of a full diagnosis based on what you disclose.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Then again, you could get an anti gear doc who'll blame it all on gear.


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

The thing that has always baffeled me is, how can a GP be a master on everything?

Not meaning it as an insult to your missus, but normally I will just go to a GP and ask to be reffered straight to a specialist, although in my experience they aren't much better.

Took them 8 years to find out what was wrong with my kidney, a doctor in Canada to 30 mins.

Just think that there are good ones out there occasionaly, only a few, but they're there!


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

GP's have to be jacks of all trades, and that's the problem. They have to know a little about a hell of a lot.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Chris1 said:


> The thing that has always baffeled me is, how can a GP be a master on everything?
> 
> Not meaning it as an insult to your missus, but normally I will just go to a GP and ask to be reffered straight to a specialist, although in my experience they aren't much better.
> 
> ...


my misses isn't a gp mate she's an NP (Nurse practitioner)


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

dmcc said:


> GP's have to be jacks of all trades, and that's the problem. They have to know a little about a hell of a lot.


I have to sit regular exams, sit recurrent training, prove currency on type and have a new licence issued every 5 years and I fix fuking aeroplanes.

GPs can go a whole career with no further developement. It is beyond me.

Some will be keen and develope themselves others stagnate for sure


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Same with me Uriel, I constantly have to do training course after training course.

Just wish the people that played with lives did the same.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Chris1 said:


> Same with me Uriel, I constantly have to do training course after training course.
> 
> Just wish the people that played with lives did the same.


It's the way it should be I guess.

If I leave the industry for 2 years I'd have to start all over sitting all the basic license exams again!

I know gp's who have had kids, not practiced for 6 or 7 years then back to it


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