# Starting the Dorian Yates split workout



## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Firstly, just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my original post and show me the (multiple) errors of my ways with the previous workout.

After some good advice I have decided to go with the Dorian Yates workout from his early years for my bulking plan. I am on approx. 3500 cals per day and as I can only train during work days I will be doing the split as follows:

Mon - Workout 1

Tues - Workout 2

Weds - Rest day/ 30 mins cv

Thurs - Workout 1

Fri - Workout 2

Sat - Rest day/30 mins cv

Sun - Rest day

This is the workout:: Using Table 2

So far I have been doing a variant of 5x5's and have put on 8lbs over the first 7 weeks of trying to bulk, currently at 199lbs. I am really hoping by sticking on this new plan for a good few months I can pack on some good size.

I have split the workout out like this:

*..........................................Workout 1.....................................*

*Chest:*

Bench press 3 x 8

Incline DB press 3 x 8

Incline DB flys 2 x 8/10

*Back:*

Lat pulldown 3 x 8

BB Rows 3 x 8

Romanian Deadlift 3 x 8

*Shoulders:*

DB Shoulder press 3 x 8

Side lats 3 x 8

Bent over lats 3 x 8

*Abs*

Crunches 3 x failure

Hanging leg raises 3 x failure

*..........................................Workout 2.....................................*

*Thighs:*

Squats (or leg press if squats aggravates my old neck injury) 4 x 8

Hack squats 3 x 8

*Hamstrings:*

Reverse curls 3 x 8

*Calves:*

Calf raises 3 x 8

*Biceps:*

BB curls 3 x 8

One arm DB preacher curls 2 x 8

*Triceps:*

Pushdowns 3 x 8

Skull crusher 2 x 9

My plan is to do 1 warm up set and then 2-3 working sets with the last set to failure. I also read up that after about 6-8 weeks you should do a deload. anyone shed any light on how best to do this and for how long? I was thinking take off say 30% of the weight, up the reps a bit and just do this for say 2 weeks before ramping it back up to progressive increases? Please correct me if im wrong here.

Looking forward to getting going and hopefully can report back with any gains that are made!!!

Thanks again.


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

Good luck with it.

The only thing I'd change is do Decline Bench Press and not Flat Bench. Flat puts too much strain on the pec tendon and Dorian himself says the Decline is one of the most underrated chest exercises there is and advises against Flat Bench unless you're a Powerlifter.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Am going to avoid commenting on exercise selection as that's quite a personal thing, but I can assure you that the split itself is a pretty good one, allowing a reasonable training frequency with enough rest to go pretty intense.

Get the volume and intensity right for your own thresholds and you should be able to progress for a while on this split.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks

did workout 1 monday and workout 2 today.

Todays sesh was brutal on my legs. Hack squats were something else - definitely havent been training legs properly before!

looking forward to a long stint on this hopefully can report some good results


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Thanks
> 
> did workout 1 monday and workout 2 today.
> 
> ...


 Hack Squats are definitely interesting the first time you do them heavy. I'm used to crushing legs but added them into my routine recently and had a bit of trouble walking for a couple days after.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Kitson said:


> Hack Squats are definitely interesting the first time you do them heavy. I'm used to crushing legs but added them into my routine recently and had a bit of trouble walking for a couple days after.


 Yeah ridiculous mate, wasn't even heavy but my thighs and hamstrings are battered!! That was straight after leg press - talk about killing yourself!

Full day off today and then back to workout 1 tomorrow, workout 2 friday


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Am going to avoid commenting on exercise selection as that's quite a personal thing, but I can assure you that the split itself is a pretty good one, allowing a reasonable training frequency with enough rest to go pretty intense.
> 
> Get the volume and intensity right for your own thresholds and you should be able to progress for a while on this split.


 Can i just ask, is having the weds totally off a good thing or should i go and do 30min cv? Same for sat/sun?

lastly, can someone explain this deloading phase? When should it be done and how exactly do u do it and how long for please?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Baggy said:


> Can i just ask, is having the weds totally off a good thing or should i go and do 30min cv? Same for sat/sun?
> 
> lastly, can someone explain this deloading phase? When should it be done and how exactly do u do it and how long for please?


 Just do the program as written for a few weeks.

For a dead load just do one top set of about 60%1rm


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Good stuff mate. I know we spoke about Dorian's one-set-beyond-failure style of training yesterday as well but maybe stick with this two-set style for a while first to help settle into it, then maybe after a while when you're used to training to proper failure then give the HIT a go.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Good stuff mate. I know we spoke about Dorian's one-set-beyond-failure style of training yesterday as well but maybe stick with this two-set style for a while first to help settle into it, then maybe after a while when you're used to training to proper failure then give the HIT a go.


 Thanks mate yes this one is thanks to you. I also read your write up from years ago about Dorian.

Yeah i think i will do the 2-3 sets as stated on here for a but, going as heavy as possible and to failure on last set.

Then maybe mix it up in a few months with his HIT techniques and maybe 5x5 the exercises.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

As said above by @simonthepieman just stick with the program using 2-3 intense work sets, and deload is usually exactly as said just one non-failure set at roughly 60-65% 1RM. A deload is basically an intensity rest where you aren't thinking about being progressive but do just enough to work the muscle.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Baggy said:


> Thanks mate yes this one is thanks to you. I also read your write up from years ago about Dorian.
> 
> Yeah i think i will do the 2-3 sets as stated on here for a but, going as heavy as possible and to failure on last set.
> 
> Then maybe mix it up in a few months with his HIT techniques and maybe 5x5 the exercises.


 ffs, stop mixing it up too.

If you are at the level I understand you to be, you should be able to get 3-4 month months runway out this routine. By all means throw in some vanity sets here and there, but refrain from wholesale changes.

Mixing routines doesn't bring in the best of all them, it waters it all down


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> ffs, stop mixing it up too.
> 
> If you are at the level I understand you to be, you should be able to get 3-4 month months runway out this routine. By all means throw in some vanity sets here and there, but refrain from wholesale changes.
> 
> Mixing routines doesn't bring in the best of all them, it waters it all down


 Cool thanks mate, not planning any major changes was just talking about the odd sesh here and there. Looking forward to a solid 6 months minimum on this, maybe more to be honest


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

dtlv said:


> As said above by @simonthepieman just stick with the program using 2-3 intense work sets, and deload is usually exactly as said just one non-failure set at roughly 60-65% 1RM. A deload is basically an intensity rest where you aren't thinking about being progressive but do just enough to work the muscle.


 Thanks mate, I was thinking to stick with the progressive plan for 8 weeks and then 1 week deload before going back on to heavy again


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Baggy said:


> Thanks mate, how long do you run a deload for?
> 
> I was thinking to stick with the progressive plan for at least 2 months and then 1 week deload ?


 deadload is just a week.

Don't over plan. Deload when you need to rather than any preplanned diary date. Typically when you think you are going to stall on progression or get close to it the following week is a good time.

For newbies you normally have enough runway for a while.

For most normal people you will have an enforced deadload by holidays, work, schedules anyway. A deload isn't a magic tool, is just an active rest


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok cool thanks again bud much appreciated


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Baggy said:


> Firstly, just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my original post and show me the (multiple) errors of my ways with the previous workout.
> 
> After some good advice I have decided to go with the Dorian Yates workout from his early years for my bulking plan. I am on approx. 3500 cals per day and as I can only train during work days I will be doing the split as follows:
> 
> ...


 I actually quite like the look of this and I have always been a volume guy. I have recently changed over to 4 on 1 off and hitting much heavier weights but for me there is to much rest. I hate resting and feel I recover quickly, even with heavy weights to complete fail (for example did 3 warm up sets on decline machine press and then a working set of 200kg, triple drop set with forced reps and negatives and chest was fine 2 days later) Train with a bit of flexibility and instinct and it could work very well IMO


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> deadload is just a week.
> 
> Don't over plan. Deload when you need to rather than any preplanned diary date. Typically when you think you are going to stall on progression or get close to it the following week is a good time.
> 
> ...


 Agreed.

I've tried to schedule in deload weeks, but find that sometimes it's just taking a step back when you would be better off keeping your momentum going.

Deload weeks will usually present themselves as holidays, times when work gets out of hand or a dose of the lurgey. If none of these crop up, I generally find I need one after 8-12 weeks of hard training.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

BoomTime said:


> I actually quite like the look of this and I have always been a volume guy. I have recently changed over to 4 on 1 off and hitting much heavier weights but for me there is to much rest. I hate resting and feel I recover quickly, even with heavy weights to complete fail (for example did 3 warm up sets on decline machine press and then a working set of 200kg, triple drop set with forced reps and negatives and chest was fine 2 days later) Train with a bit of flexibility and instinct and it could work very well IMO


 200kg decline chest... nice mate!!!!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

I guess the only issue here is at the moment im doing this 100% natural so its going to be a very loonngg road. Its hard not to get a bit fed up when you dont see results after a few months but i guess u got to keep laying down the foundations!


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> I guess the only issue here is at the moment im doing this 100% natural so its going to be a very loonngg road. Its hard not to get a bit fed up when you dont see results after a few months but i guess u got to keep laying down the foundations!


 This is true. Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Kitson said:


> This is true. Rome wasn't built in a day.


 ha, true.... I may introduce some peptides in a month or 2. Did them last year for 3-4 months and got on well with them - nothing major but then im not looking to go outrageous


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## TREACLE (Jun 6, 2016)

Due to there being several big movements per workout I'd recommend doing no more than 2 work sets per movement initially. This will be enough and you can always start introducing more volume as time goes on.

What matters in reality is that you stick to it, train HARD, eat well and sleep well.

Goood luck! Enjoy!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

TREACLE said:


> Due to there being several big movements per workout I'd recommend doing no more than 2 work sets per movement initially. This will be enough and you can always start introducing more volume as time goes on.
> 
> What matters in reality is that you stick to it, train HARD, eat well and sleep well.
> 
> Goood luck! Enjoy!


 Thanks... I have my leg day day.... still got some DOMS from Tuesdays sesh!!

I am trying to go heavy as I can, but having not trained for a year, and not properly for 2.5 yrs I am sooo bloody weak lol !


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## TREACLE (Jun 6, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Thanks... I have my leg day day.... still got some DOMS from Tuesdays sesh!!
> 
> I am trying to go heavy as I can, but having not trained for a year, and not properly for 2.5 yrs I am sooo bloody weak lol !


 If you're fresh into the gym I wouldn't push it for the first couple of weeks. Focus on good form, do not go too heavy. Gradually build up.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

TREACLE said:


> If you're fresh into the gym I wouldn't push it for the first couple of weeks. Focus on good form, do not go too heavy. Gradually build up.


 Not really fresh as been dipping in and out but yeah I could say this is the first time in a long time that I've been focused and able to push myself as hard as my body will take.

I'm 8 weeks in to my attempted bulk so far. but this is the first week of this Dorian workout.


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

If you haven't already I would watch these videos from Dorian as well. It relates to a lot of your routine so it's helpful getting tips from the man himself!

Dorian Yates' Blood & Guts 6-Week Training Program:


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Kitson said:


> If you haven't already I would watch these videos from Dorian as well. It relates to a lot of your routine so it's helpful getting tips from the man himself!
> 
> Dorian Yates' Blood & Guts 6-Week Training Program:


 Thanks - yeah I watched his back and chest routines. to be honest I was asking if his split routine was worth doing (ie, one body part a day) but was advised this upper/lower split is better to gain size


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm currently following the exact routine described in those videos and it's working well.

I like the aspect of pushing hard and finishing at the gym in 50 mins instead of over an hour which is what I did before.

To be honest you can't go wrong with following Dorian's advice. He's one of the only Mr.Os I agree with on a lot of things and he's very relatable.

Check out this guy's channel by the way - slot of interesting content for anyone who comes across this thread and wants some stuff on Dorian.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC9kjZPcivdXV-BGmgeWZ1cw


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Kitson said:


> I'm currently following the exact routine described in those videos and it's working well.
> 
> I like the aspect of pushing hard and finishing at the gym in 50 mins instead of over an hour which is what I did before.
> 
> ...


 Just watched that first video u put up, interesting stuff thanks. will look at the youtube one too now


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Just watched that first video u put up, interesting stuff thanks. will look at the youtube one too now


 I'd recommend watching the one where he trains with Chris Cormier. Just goes to show how brutal Dorian's methods are haha.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

so just over a week in and im broken 

my lower back is sore and the top of my left shoulder is very sore.

The worst pain is my ribs, chest, shoulder blades, all of which are causing 8/10 pain for 3 days! was just about to change the training up after this week (which is a rest/de-load week as im 10 weeks into the overall bulking) ..... however, a great club member who's helping with my injury has suggested the pain im getting around ribs/shoulders is due top a new scalene exercise im doing to help strengthen my scalene and improve pinched nerve around brachial plexus.

so I will leave it as it is and go again next week at 80% what I ended weights on last week.

I hit 200lbs on Saturdays weight in, so that's 9 lbs added in 10 weeks - not all muscle at all - so im pleased with the steady gains especially with no PEDS>


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> so just over a week in and im broken
> 
> my lower back is sore and the top of my left shoulder is very sore.
> 
> ...


 I would still rest your upper body, which to be honest it sounds like you may have no option about anyway! You haven't asked on your other thread what you should do about your training, and it may just have been assumed you'd be taking a break. I'd at least clarify.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I would still rest your upper body, which to be honest it sounds like you may have no option about anyway! You haven't asked on your other thread what you should do about your training, and it may just have been assumed you'd be taking a break. I'd at least clarify.


 Hi yeah I am going to take the whole week off training mate and rest it completely - not even doing any lower body this week.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Hi yeah I am going to take the whole week off training mate and rest it completely - not even doing any lower body this week.


 Sorry, I didn't read properly there! Although you may well want to be resting your upper body for much more than just the rest of this week.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sorry, I didn't read properly there! Although you may well want to be resting your upper body for much more than just the rest of this week.


 I am hoping what he said on my injury thread is correct and this flare up is actually down to this scalene exercise hes getting me to do and nothing to do with the training. I have pushed hard for 10 weeks so far and nothing really flared up until I tried this scalene exercise.... granted it was also the same time I started this Dorian schedule but there's not much in the schedule I wasn't already doing except hack squats and flys.

its a frustrating week as I have been really enjoying getting back into it all and although all my max weights are pretty s**t its still hard for me and im upping them as/when I can


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

This de-load week off is Zzzzzzzz


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> I am hoping what he said on my injury thread is correct and this flare up is actually down to this scalene exercise hes getting me to do and nothing to do with the training. I have pushed hard for 10 weeks so far and nothing really flared up until I tried this scalene exercise.... granted it was also the same time I started this Dorian schedule but there's not much in the schedule I wasn't already doing except hack squats and flys.
> 
> its a frustrating week as I have been really enjoying getting back into it all and although all my max weights are pretty s**t its still hard for me and im upping them as/when I can


 Its best to deload before the pain becomes too intense too work out. I usually deload once every four weeks.

How do you think the DY split is working for you at the mo?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Its best to deload before the pain becomes too intense too work out. I usually deload once every four weeks.
> 
> How do you think the DY split is working for you at the mo?


 Well it broke me pretty quick 

nah i really like it i think if will bring on legs a lot - i feel well out of shape this week doing nothing buzzing to get going again monday. Got all my sups thro post like vit d, creatine, zma and omega3


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

So just finished my de-load week which was boring!!

weighed in today and was same as last saturday @ 200lbs. Arms gone down 1cm and stomach gained 1cm but legs, chest etc stayed the same. Not sure if thats about right?

Dont feel pumped at all though so will be pleased to get back to weights next week


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> So just finished my de-load week which was boring!!
> 
> weighed in today and was same as last saturday @ 200lbs. Arms gone down 1cm and stomach gained 1cm but legs, chest etc stayed the same. Not sure if thats about right?
> 
> Dont feel pumped at all though so will be pleased to get back to weights next week


 I'd stop measuring yourself every week to be honest. Once a month would be easily frequent enough. Although it can be tricky to measure yourself in exactly the same way each time, and the variations you're seeing week to week are most likely evidence of this.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Oh, and if you're comparing the size of your arms cold vs with a post workout pump then obviously they're going to be smaller. There's no point comparing measurements like that.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Oh, and if you're comparing the size of your arms cold vs with a post workout pump then obviously they're going to be smaller. There's no point comparing measurements like that.


 no mate never measure after training.

I literally just do it around 8am each sat morning for weights and measurements no other time to keep it consistant


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> no mate never measure after training.
> 
> I literally just do it around 8am each sat morning for weights and measurements no other time to keep it consistant


 It will be a measurement repeatability issue then - there's no way your arms are actually 1 cm smaller after a week of approximately maintenance calories.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> It will be a measurement repeatability issue then - there's no way your arms are actually 1 cm smaller after a week of approximately maintenance calories.


 Yeah I would have thought it's just because you don't have the pump from working out all week


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Oh, and if you're comparing the size of your arms cold vs with a post workout pump then obviously they're going to be smaller. There's no point comparing measurements like that.


 yeah i reckon you're right mate. Perhaps its a slightly different point in the arm i measured who knows!

Belly definitely gone up a notch though!!

last day of anti inflams today then ive got all the viatmins etc you mentioned to start me off next week


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Belly definitely gone up a notch though!!


 That's harder to measure consistantly than your arms to be honest, but will also just change with how you stand/how tense your abs are, and how much food/gas you have in your GI track. You won't have gained 1 cm of fat. (If you want to track abdominal fat then body fat calipers would be a much better bet than trying to measure your waist.)


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Oh, and if you're comparing the size of your arms cold vs with a post workout pump then obviously they're going to be smaller. There's no point comparing measurements like that.


 thanks mate. Looking forward to going again monday, 80% of the weight i ended on to build up again


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Nobody is going to lose any measureable muscle in a week, let alone a week where you're still training.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

@Mingster cheers mate. Yeah i took a whole week off no training at all. Been trying to bulk for 10wks and also snagged neck last wkend so i think i needed it


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> cheers mate. Yeah i took a whole week off no training at all. Been trying to bulk for 10wks and also snagged neck last wkend so i think i needed it


 I suspect you meant to quote @Mingster there.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

yep, my bad. Phone's having a moment !!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Mingster said:


> Nobody is going to lose any measureable muscle in a week, let alone a week where you're still training.


 cheers mate. Yeah i took a whole week off no training at all. Been trying to bulk for 10wks and also snagged neck last wkend so i think i needed it


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> yep, my bad. Phone's having a moment !!


 The forum's having a moment to be fair, lots of things are playing up.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

1st day back on the routine today after a full week off deload.

Did it all at 80% of what i was doing the week before and it felt a bit heavy! I hadnt actually got to big weights anyway so 80% of that really isnt too much but will build it up slowly

its a great routine though, like it


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Annoying weigh in this morning

last week after my deload week off i was 200lbs which is exactly the same as i was the day i started my deload week

now one week back eating properly and 4x gym sessions and im now 198.8lbs!! 

look forward to when i can actually see some differences in body shape as im nearly 3 months in and dont look any different despite gaining 8-9lbs


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Annoying weigh in this morning
> 
> last week after my deload week off i was 200lbs which is exactly the same as i was the day i started my deload week
> 
> ...


 Don't worry mate. 3 months isn't that long to see the results you're expecting. I reckon when you reassess at 6 months you'll notice the difference.

The most dramatic result will be seen after a full bulk and cut too I found at the start.

Can i ask how tall are you?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Don't worry mate. 3 months isn't that long to see the results you're expecting. I reckon when you reassess at 6 months you'll notice the difference.
> 
> The most dramatic result will be seen after a full bulk and cut too I found at the start.
> 
> Can i ask how tall are you?


 Yeah i take pics and def dont look any different. Although 9lbs gotta have gone somewhere?

im 6"1 mate


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Yeah i take pics and def dont look any different. Although 9lbs gotta have gone somewhere?
> 
> im 6"1 mate


 Thought so. I think when your a little taller it takes more weight to see the mass on the frame. 9lbs on a 5"10 person is drastically different to 9lbs on someone > 6ft.

It'll take more weight to notice a difference (or at least it did for me being 6"2). But when you do fill out you REALLY fill out. Patience is key


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Thought so. I think when your a little taller it takes more weight to see the mass on the frame. 9lbs on a 5"10 person is drastically different to 9lbs on someone > 6ft.
> 
> It'll take more weight to notice a difference (or at least it did for me being 6"2). But when you do fill out you REALLY fill out. Patience is key


 Yeah thanx mate. Ive just started creatine this week so hopefully that will help too.

Bloody frustrating when u want to see results but still enjoying the journey!


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Yeah thanx mate. Ive just started creatine this week so hopefully that will help too.
> 
> Bloody frustrating when u want to see results but still enjoying the journey!


 I know what you mean, but every day is a step closer than you were yesterday


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> last week after my deload week off i was 200lbs which is exactly the same as i was the day i started my deload week
> 
> now one week back eating properly and 4x gym sessions and im now 198.8lbs!!


 It might be worth weighing yourself daily for a short while so you get an idea of how much your weight can vary from one day to the next. I 'gained' 500g (1.1 lb) in one day last week for example. I didn't gain that amount of any tissue of course, it will just have been differences in the amount of food and water in my body.

If you can be bothered, weighing yourself daily and comparing weekly averages is a better way to track progress. It certainly isn't necessary though.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> It might be worth weighing yourself daily for a short while so you get an idea of how much your weight can vary from one day to the next. I 'gained' 500g (1.1 lb) in one day last week for example. I didn't gain that amount of any tissue of course, it will just have been differences in the amount of food and water in my body.
> 
> If you can be bothered, weighing yourself daily and comparing weekly averages is a better way to track progress. It certainly isn't necessary though.


 Yeah may try that for a while mate. I always do it on waking up after going to the loo so try and keep everything regular

just want to grow but grow properly. Can def feel it around midrift which is annoying especially this week when i actually lose overall weight!

u see the guys with amazing physique and a flat/toned stomach and thats the plan but seems impossible from this stage!!!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> just want to grow but grow properly. Can def feel it around midrift which is annoying especially this week when i actually lose overall weight!
> 
> u see the guys with amazing physique and a flat/toned stomach and thats the plan but seems impossible from this stage!!!


 I've said it before, but I would still be tempted to focus on fat loss for a while in your position. You're obviously not happy with the abdominal fat you currently have, and it's only going to get worse over time with current plan. You'll look better leaner, and it will be easier to see progress.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Yeah may try that for a while mate. I always do it on waking up after going to the loo so try and keep everything regular
> 
> just want to grow but grow properly. Can def feel it around midrift which is annoying especially this week when i actually lose overall weight!
> 
> u see the guys with amazing physique and a flat/toned stomach and thats the plan but seems impossible from this stage!!!


 If you're going for physique I agree with Ultrasonic on that. Cutting will reveal the muscle under it.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Yeah i hear what you're saying but ive started this journey now and i want to see what i can do over winter and really try and hit it hard while keeping this TOS injury at bay.


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## Rmj11 (Nov 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> Firstly, just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my original post and show me the (multiple) errors of my ways with the previous workout.
> 
> After some good advice I have decided to go with the Dorian Yates workout from his early years for my bulking plan. I am on approx. 3500 cals per day and as I can only train during work days I will be doing the split as follows:
> 
> ...


 I'm doing this routine also but I do it differently to how you're doing it. Where it says 3 sets of 8 I do a warm up for 8 reps then increase the weight and do 8 reps to failure then do a back off set by reducing the weight by 10% for another 8 reps. Sometimes I just keep to the same weight so after the warm up set I do 8 reps to failure then for the next set do 6 reps to failure.

I think that's how you do this routine. I know Dorian always did 2 work sets but in a warrior's story which this routine came from Dorian said he did 3 main sets in the beginning but that contradicts what he said in the book blood and guts that he did 2 work sets.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Rmj11 said:


> I'm doing this routine also but I do it differently to how you're doing it. Where it says 3 sets of 8 I do a warm up for 8 reps then increase the weight and do 8 reps to failure then do a back off set by reducing the weight by 10% for another 8 reps. Sometimes I just keep to the same weight so after the warm up set I do 8 reps to failure then for the next set do 6 reps to failure.
> 
> I think that's how you do this routine. I know Dorian always did 2 work sets but in a warrior's story which this routine came from Dorian said he did 3 main sets in the beginning but that contradicts what he said in the book blood and guts that he did 2 work sets.


 Yeah i do warm up setsand stretches and then 3 working sets of 8 or to failure mate


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Having always trained Powerlifting style I recently decided to switch over to BB and thought Dorian was the best blueprint to follow. Interesting stuff on this thread and very useful. I'm booked in for a workshop in Leeds in January with a guy who's a certified HIT coach I think.

Would you all say the routine in the OP is good for me to jump on coming from powerlifting or do I need to do something else as a BB noob?


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Bataz said:


> Having always trained Powerlifting style I recently decided to switch over to BB and thought Dorian was the best blueprint to follow. Interesting stuff on this thread and very useful. I'm booked in for a workshop in Leeds in January with a guy who's a certified HIT coach I think.
> 
> Would you all say the routine in the OP is good for me to jump on coming from powerlifting or do I need to do something else as a BB noob?


 I'd say it's a pretty decent routine. But it's whatever works for you. Try it and see  you obviously have some experience. The changeover isn't going to be too difficult I would have thought.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> I'd say it's a pretty decent routine. But it's whatever works for you. Try it and see  you obviously have some experience. The changeover isn't going to be too difficult I would have thought.


 Ok thanks, I'll start off with the induction programme and see how it goes.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

By the way which book is this from?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bataz said:


> Having always trained Powerlifting style I recently decided to switch over to BB and thought Dorian was the best blueprint to follow. Interesting stuff on this thread and very useful. I'm booked in for a workshop in Leeds in January with a guy who's a certified HIT coach I think.
> 
> Would you all say the routine in the OP is good for me to jump on coming from powerlifting or do I need to do something else as a BB noob?


 Try it and see how you get on. Personally I think the weight of evidence supports more sets being better for hypertrophy (natty anyway), but there are far more variables that just sets/reps, and it's impossible to give a clear and simple answer of what is best.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Really looking forward to the workshop in January. Hopefully pick up some good ideas, techniques etc


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Is this the HIT style of his training?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bataz said:


> Is this the HIT style of his training?
> 
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm


 Yes.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Bataz said:


> Having always trained Powerlifting style I recently decided to switch over to BB and thought Dorian was the best blueprint to follow. Interesting stuff on this thread and very useful. I'm booked in for a workshop in Leeds in January with a guy who's a certified HIT coach I think.
> 
> Would you all say the routine in the OP is good for me to jump on coming from powerlifting or do I need to do something else as a BB noob?


 Im no BB at all and I jumped straight in and enjoying it - 4 times a week means I hit all muscles twice a week/


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Bataz said:


> Is this the HIT style of his training?
> 
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm


 Yep. It's made out to be a complicated program by BB.com but it's very simple. Any warmup/ramp-up sets as needed, then one maximal set to all-out failure, then finish that set with an "intensity technique" (forced reps if training with a partner as you can see in the video, but even if you're training alone then dropsets, cheats, partials or rest-pause will also do the job). Dorian has even said in his books that forced reps should be used sparingly and that dropsets were one of his favourite set-extending methods.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Yep. It's made out to be a complicated program by BB.com but it's very simple. Any warmup/ramp-up sets as needed, then one maximal set to all-out failure, then finish that set with an "intensity technique" (forced reps if training with a partner as you can see in the video, but even if you're training alone then dropsets, cheats, partials or rest-pause will also do the job). Dorian has even said in his books that forced reps should be used sparingly and that dropsets were one of his favourite set-extending methods.


 Yeah having watched all the videos at length I can see how simple but effective the programme is. I do train alone so I'll use dropsets etc really looking forward to giving it a try.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Had the best session to date on my plan in the OP.

Upped all the weights, felt good and focused and really enjoying the workouts.

I twinged by lower back again doing RDL's like I did 3 weeks ago so I need to check out my form as was only doing it with 70kg so shouldn't be aggravating my lower back


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> I twinged by lower back again doing RDL's like I did 3 weeks ago so I need to check out my form as was only doing it with 70kg so shouldn't be aggravating my lower back


 This is a good video:






Note that because RDLs work the negative more than deadlifts, you'll likely find you lower back reaches its limit at lower weight. On the flip side, RDLs are a good lower back exercise.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Just done the delts & triceps workout, quality, loved it!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> This is a good video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Are you sure that's the right link? #caramel pudding 

yeha on my RDl I bring the bar just below knee cap - I noticed in Dorian's blood/guts video recently he tells the guy to just bounce off the lower back so not to actually go down past thew knee....


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Are you sure that's the right link? #caramel pudding
> 
> yeha on my RDl I bring the bar just below knee cap - I noticed in Dorian's blood/guts video recently he tells the guy to just bounce off the lower back so not to actually go down past thew knee....


 No idea where that link came from!

From memory I think what Dorian is talking about is an exercise for back, so he wasn't worrying about going for the full stretch of the hamstring as you do for an RDL.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I think the earlier link must have been the advert I skipped, this was what I meant:


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> No idea where that link came from!
> 
> From memory I think what Dorian is talking about is an exercise for back, so he wasn't worrying about going for the full stretch of the hamstring as you do for an RDL.


 Yeah my RDL are part of my back workout - I have the 2 separate days of doing legs per week. maybe I should just stop at the top of the knee


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I think the earlier link must have been the advert I skipped, this was what I meant:


 Good video mate thanks - I may leave RDL's on Friday and start again next week... just putting some heat into lower back next few days!


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Baggy said:


> Yeah my RDL are part of my back workout - I have the 2 separate days of doing legs per week. maybe I should just stop at the top of the knee


 Could just rack pull ?


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Hope you have a reliable training partner.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

theBEAST2002 said:


> Hope you have a reliable training partner.


 Me? No training partner mate


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