# Can we end the egg debate once and for all!



## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

Hi again

Has been lots of posts recently with people suggesting raw egg whites in their pw shakes which i keep saying is a no-no!

Here is a post i found somewhere else which is similar to what i had been told..

Albumen in the urine is a general sign, as studies show that a significantly higher amount of malabsorbed protein (egg) was found in the urine of healthy individuals (1). Stable isotope techniques are used to determine the digestibility of raw eggs vs. cooked eggs. In another study, using this method, it was demonstrated that the assimilation of cooked egg protein is efficient, albeit incomplete, and that the true ileal digestibility of egg protein is significantly enhanced by heat-pretreatment (2). Heat-pretreatment of course being cooked.

Not to mention you have a 1 in 30,000 chance to get salmonella from a raw egg. Also, if you blend raw eggs or whatever, you can break up the chemical bonds of amino acids where as cooking them can hook the bonds together, which inevitably is the objective.

Hope this helps, over to you hackskii!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

yeah, this is what i have read on the egg issue, but thats the point of the board brown, to discuss and share. Salmonella is virtually eliminated if you shove em in the microwave for 20 secs, and if you whisk them up with hand gently, then the amino acid bonds are not broken so im gonna keep eating them raw, its quicker, easier and tastes better for me.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Interesting amino acid info - thanks


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## GREENLANTERN (Jun 20, 2004)

There is a tendancy amoungst some to overcomplicate nutrition and turn each meal into a scientific study. My advice would be to lighten up on the technical jargon....the formula for success has always been the same...train hard and eat well.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

with, u there mate, im relatively new in here and some of the answers/reply,s r far to difficult to understand and u look ridiculous if u ask again. I think the guys with the knowledge , who bye the way do have the knowledge should be a bit more considerate in offering thier help, english please guys rather than technical jargon from books please.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

GREENLANTERN said:


> There is a tendancy amoungst some to overcomplicate nutrition and turn each meal into a scientific study. My advice would be to lighten up on the technical jargon....the formula for success has always been the same...train hard and eat well.


I like this post. 

There is an enzime that needs to be killed while cooking. Eat it raw if you want. It is the most natural food known to man. It has everything the body needs except vitamin c. It is the beginning of life. God made it so how bad can it be. Sealed in its own shell. I worked in a grocery store 21 years ago and I was buddies with the dairy guy. They had pallets of eggs that they never refrigerated untill the refrigerator got empty. We never had anyone come up and say they got sick from eggs.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

there you go, i agree with you latern about people overcomplicating things when it comes to diet, but if we didnt then we would not be making half the progress as we all are?? Trial, success and error are inevetabilities when it comes to bodybuilding.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

But in my case it is mostly errors


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

you look okay to me winger?


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

wow, mr unpopular overnight. Didnt mean to be offending anyone on this one. It just seemed to crop up on loads of threads so i thought i would start one purely for that reason. As for the posts regarding "lets not get too complicated with scientific info" wtf?

Half the threads on this forum are based on scientific info because a lot of people are actually interested! If its not for you then read another thread. Im not having a go personally at anyone as i started this thread with the intention of having a discussion not having people tell me to stop being overcomplicated!


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

protein is abosorbed by breaking down the protein into the constituent amino-acids (there are twenty amino acids in total and any protein is made up of a combination of these aa's) - this process is called 'denaturing'.

Heating a protein gives the molecules more energy and as they vibrate, the weak bonds in between the amino acid chain break and the protein unfolds. At high temperatures proteins can gain enough energy to form strong covalent bonds with other adjacent molecules - this is why an egg turns hard when you boil it.

Certain chemicals can also be used to denature protein. These are typicaly Acids and alkalis, salts and sugars - the stomach contains amoungst other things hydrochloric acid and pepsin, hydrochloric acid denatures egg protein and pepsin digests it - not cooking an egg will not stop you from digesting it.

The protein in egg white can also be denatured by mechanical means when you whisk an egg.

The beating action tears the protein apart and the surface tension of the little bubbles breaks the bonds holding the amino acid chains. And makes it perfect for meringues 

I find it hard to belive that using a blender etc will break down the amino acids, this would have to be done so on a molecular level - breaking them down into Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen. If anyone has any studies to prove I am wrong here I would really appreciate it if you could post them as I'd find it interesting and would then throw away my blender - much to the joy of my wife!

Yes there is something like a 1 in 30,000 chance of getting salmonella - but this is only likely to happen if you are eating 'commercial' eggs- in which case you also need to be awaer the lipid profile is very different from a free range egg. Happy chickens = healthy eggs.

Normally, protein is not found in urine when a routine dipstick test is performed (this is sometimes called an albumin urine test). Phillip the post you quoted uses the term Albumen in the urine - if that is the case then you should check to see which species you are  Albumin is blood plasm protein. If you have protein in your urine it can be caused by a number of factors including kidney problems. This is because the kidney is supposed to keep large molecules, such as protein, in the blood and only filter out smaller impurities. Even if small amounts of protein do get through, they are normally re-absorbed by the body and used as a source of energy.

Some proteins will appear in the urine if the levels of protein in blood become high, even when the kidney is functioning properly - a high protein diet, where you are ingesting too much protein to be used is a key factor.

If the kidney is diseased, protein will appear in the urine -- even if the blood levels are normal.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

it was the quickest article id found!


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

lol... don't worry I wasn't having a dig - just adding to the debate. I think it is a good thread - so well started.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

damagedgoods said:


> lol... don't worry I wasn't having a dig - just adding to the debate. I think it is a good thread - so well started.


Agreed - A big question needed answering.


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## Musclehed (Feb 17, 2004)

OK im gonna add to the scientific arguement (sorry to whom I may offend). He is my arguement.

1. Cooked eggs taste better.

2. You are at risk of getting salmonella (although overstated

3. Why mix it with your shake? Use the eggs as a source of protein on its own, in another meal persay. You also slow down the digestion rate at which your whey is absorbed (assuming that you are drinking whey protein shakes).

4. Last but not least, the BIGGY the body can only utilize about HALF of the protein found in raw egg products.

So not only are you risking getting sick (although this is overstated), you're wasting your money. Lesson: Cook your eggs!

If people want studies I will be more than happy to provide.

COOK YOUR DAMN EGGS


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Briliant


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

musclehed, well said mate. What i was getting at but much more blunt and agressive!

lol


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

well I eat em raw sometimes and I think its ok...do what you want


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well Philipbrown, I like the article.

Damagedgoods, I liked that article and gave you both reputation points for that.

I love eggs. I eat them every day. I have read that cultures that eat alot of eggs live a long time (so much for the cholesterol theory).

Posted this on another thread but some facts about eggs:

What do eggs have in them?

The whites contain niacin, riboflavin, chlorine, magnesium, potassium, sodium and sulfur.

The yolks With the exception of riboflavin and niacin, the yolk contains a higher proportion of the egg's vitamins than the white. All of the egg's vitamins A, D and E are in the yolk. Egg yolks are one of the few foods naturally containing vitamin D.

Eggs also contain LECITHIN, Calcium, thiamin, folic acid and some good fats.

The yolk also contains more phosphorus, manganese, iron, iodine, copper, and calcium than the white, and it contains all of the zinc. The yolk of a Large egg contains about 59 calories.

I have read though that there is an enzyme in the egg that eating raw is not recomended. I cant remember if it is absorbtion or not good.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I eat 21 a week for over 25 years and I am still posting....................why does my left are hurt?...........................not


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

Musclehead - Thx for the reply - I admit I still don't understand why peopel say that we cannot digest 50% of a raw egg -

here is a little test for you to try at home.. get an egg - and put a small amount of the white in a glass - then get some vinager and add it to the glass so that 2/3rds are vinager. Swirl it around for a bit and leave it. you will notice a change in the egge white - it will go opaque and eventually whit and will look like it is being cooked. - Vinager is an acid - in fact it is a very weak acid, and this is just to illustrate a point, you can see the affect it that the protein becomes denatured, i.e. the peptied ponds that make the protein are broken. In the stomach you ave a much more acidic environment (concentrated hydrochloric acid), so the effect is much more severe - add to that pepsin, which is a digestive enzyme and you have the effect of 'cooking' the egg - albeit you do not kill the pathogens like salmonella if they are present as they are resistant to that envrionment. If you have any studies that make what I said flase pls share them - as I like to knwo if I am wrong.

I do cook eggs - as I like them, but I like to add them raw to my shakes, yes Whey shakes, as indeed this does slow down the absorption of the protien - but this way it geves the body a continious supply of amino acids - where as they are excreted if you absorb them too fast.


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

OH I saw a funny interview once on TV it was about 12 yearsd ago and they wer doing colesterol testing at a supermarket - they had the 'experts' beig interviewed and some joe public when they got their results and wer asking them about their lifestyes etc..

The experts were banging on about the importance of low fat diets and eating right and all these poor people were bieng given the bad news about their bodies.. .then some old guy - must have been about 90+, looking fit and healty was questioned - he had just had his test and it was well within the 'healty' levels - and he was asked what his secret was. his reply was Oh sipmle really I always eat about 2dozen eggs per day.. it was so off the cuff it couldn't have been scripted.... niice.


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## GREENLANTERN (Jun 20, 2004)

When you look at the nutritional conents in an egg...you could say that it is almost the perfect food item. Also if I remember rightly the protein in an egg also has the highest biological value.


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## Chico (Jul 21, 2004)

Eggs are like beans, they make me fart but I always cook them. Maybe if I dont cook them I wont fart


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

GREENLANTERN said:


> Also if I remember rightly the protein in an egg also has the highest biological value.


This is a fact.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

well, all i know is pro bodybuilders drink raw eggs all the time, arnie did in his time, and so will I!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Killerkeane said:


> well, all i know is pro bodybuilders drink raw eggs all the time, arnie did in his time, and so will I!


So did Rocky and look how much money he makes....................lol


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

yeah but why do they both talk funny? Must make there throats saturate in salmonella? They both spit out a rate of about 5 words every minute? But Arnie is definetly better than Stallone.

wtf am i on about?? Im tired, just done a 9 hour shift so pretty ****ted.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

damagedgoods said:


> protein is abosorbed by breaking down the protein into the constituent amino-acids (there are twenty amino acids in total and any protein is made up of a combination of these aa's) - this process is called 'denaturing'.
> 
> Heating a protein gives the molecules more energy and as they vibrate, the weak bonds in between the amino acid chain break and the protein unfolds. At high temperatures proteins can gain enough energy to form strong covalent bonds with other adjacent molecules - this is why an egg turns hard when you boil it.
> 
> ...


Im bumping this as I just found it again and thought it a good article.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

And I am diddy bumping it.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Killerkeane said:


> well, all i know is pro bodybuilders drink raw eggs all the time, arnie did in his time, and so will I!


and the Italian Stallion, Rocky Balboa! :beer:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Yo Adrian.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

I've got to admit I find raw eggs a quick and convenient way of adding extra calories when bulking... I grab a sandwich between meals and add 3 raw eggs. I'm currently doing 12 a day split over 4 doses!!!


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Aftershock said:


> I've got to admit I find raw eggs a quick and convenient way of adding extra calories when bulking... I grab a sandwich between meals and add 3 raw eggs. I'm currently doing 12 a day split over 4 doses!!!


Don't the eggs fall out of the sandwich being runny and all? 

I prefer cooked eggs, I have eaten eggs raw in my beginning years but I just hate the slimy taste of a raw egg. yukky.uke:

So if you whisk an egg that makes it totally unusable to the body? I won't be doing that again then.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Didn't Hilary Sw ank eat like 36 egg whites a day getting ready for "Million Dollar Baby"?

I wonder if there is somthing to that............ha ha ha ha.

Love your posts Big Tom!

I had to space her name or it came out like this......Hilary S****...........lol


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Killerkeane said:


> well, all i know is pro bodybuilders drink raw eggs all the time, arnie did in his time, and so will I!


no back in the 70's and 80's they used them all the time but nowadays you will find not many do Arnie did do this but he didn't have the protein supps that are available nowadays.

I am totally against eating/drinking raw eggs for the simple reason of salmanella it has nothing to do with the breakdown of amino's....

lets address this so whisking/beating the eggs breaks down the amino's and makes them useless does this apply to cutting or mincing chicken or beef??

i think not an egg is an egg full stop..

i eat lots of eggs either boiled or scrambled but i don't see why you would eat them Raw....:hungry:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I do tend to agree. Raw eggs have an enzyme in them that need to be killed as well. 10 seconds in the micro and you cant even tell. I suppose that is enough to kill the enzyme and salmanella. I really do think salmanella is over rated on eggs. I think it comes from the outside of the egg. Chickens poop out the same hole they drop eggs from. The egg is sealed.

I used to work at a Grocery store 25 years ago and they didn't refrigerate all the eggs. I would see pallots of eggs 6' high that never hit the refrigerator for months. We never had a complaint at our store for food poisoning.

I will say this again, man can not duplicate what God has made. How perfect is an egg? Fertil eggs are the sh1t.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well not only that winger but free range eggs have 19 times the Omega 3's as store bought eggs.

Omega 3's are critical for good health.

Free range cows too for CLA but then again those are few and far between to find those.

Nature has a way of taking care of itself.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i just found these snippets on the Ironman website...

The yolk contains nutrients not found in the albumen (white) portion. According to Dr. Melchior Dikkers, a research biochemist who was listed in Who's Who in Biochemistry, the yolk contains NUCLEAR PROTEIN which is part of the essence of life. Remember, the baby chick is formed from the yolk, and the white portion is the source of its food before it is hatched.

Egg whites should never be eaten uncooked. There is a condition called "egg white injury" which can lead to alopecia (hair loss) and other debilatating health problems resulting from consuming raw egg whites. There is no problem with raw yolks. For many years, I would throw away the white portion and add 3 egg yolks to my morning protein drink. The whites can be scrambled or made into an omelete, or soft boiling the egg slightly so that the white is coagulated. This actually inmproves the digestibility of the white.

Years ago, at a hospital in Alameda, CA, patients were fed the equivalent of 24 egg yolks a day and their cholesterol levels did not rise at all. Cooking eggs in bacon grease, butter or consuming them with other saturated fats will result in an elevated cholesterol level. The yolk contains biotin and lecithin which help inhibit cholesterol.

The factor in raw egg whites that blocks biotin absorption is avidin. While this biotin deficiency produced through consuming raw eggs is a possibility, I think a more immediate concern in regard to raw egg consumption is salmonella food poisoning. I've seen actual medical journal articles detailing how bodybuilders have contracted this type of food poisoning after consuming raw eggs. Although the incidence of salmonella actually being present in eggs is fairly remote, it can happen, and this is one lottery no one would want to win.

Also, the presence of lecithin in eggs as a controlling factor in cholesterol usage was dismissed by most scientists for years. Now these same scientists--pardon the pun--have egg on their collective faces--both yolk and whites--since the lecithin "theory" has now been scientifically confirmed in a number of studies. I also readily agree with the lack of science apparant in many of today's supplements. Such sellers prey upon the scientific ignorance of the public by making pseudo-scientific statements in ads that have absolutely no basis in fact. I alluded to this in my recent Ironman article in the top 10 sports supplements. I couldn't go into more detail due to advertising constraints, as you know having edited magazines. I had a newsletter that was published by Ironman a few years ago called Applied Metabolics, in which I wasn't limited since the newsletter carried no ads. It was 100% honest information, but sadly, few people knew about it, and the plug was pulled on it.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Good read mate. 

If possible I like my eggs soft boiled. The whites hard and the yokes soft. You can lower cholesterol by taking in 800-1000 mg's of lecithin a day. Why split up an egg? So what if cholesterol is in the yoke? That is why their is lecithin in the yoke.

Fcuk the scientists, lets go back 100 years and look at heart conditions..................rest my point. Lets look at carbs and I dont mean fruits and veggies eather.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

what many people don't realise is if you cut cholesterol your body will produce its own


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> what many people don't realise is if you cut cholesterol your body will produce its own


Right.


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## RAIKEY (Jun 30, 2005)

winger said:


> the egg. Chickens poop out the same hole they drop eggs from. The egg is sealed.


i,m not being picky , Wingy baby, but an egg shell is very porous ....

leave on in the fridge next to a strong flavour ...garlic for eg....and it will pick up a taste......


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

All im saying is you probably have better chances at getting salmanila from the outside of the egg instead of the inside. Say hi to Deano for me will ya.....lol


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## RAIKEY (Jun 30, 2005)

oh i gets yer !

cant say hello... he's gone 't' shop fer me some ****.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nice article PS, who is the author of that?

I would like to read more of his material.

Anyway, yes. If you reduce your cholesterol intake your body will only make more.

I have seen articles on people on low fat low cholesterol diets and they had low test levels.

All hormones are made from cholesterol.

Your liver produces 80% of the cholesterol in the body.

The brain is mostly comprised from cholesterol.

Look at mothers milk, it is loaded with cholesterol and fat is very important for the development of babies brains.

I have a book on this and will type up later.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Tinytom said:


> Don't the eggs fall out of the sandwich being runny and all?
> 
> I prefer cooked eggs, I have eaten eggs raw in my beginning years but I just hate the slimy taste of a raw egg. yukky.uke:
> 
> So if you whisk an egg that makes it totally unusable to the body? I won't be doing that again then.


The only way I can manage to eat raw eggs is to crack one into a glass and knock it on the head with the yoke intact.. then repeat until you have taken in the desired number..

If you whisk the eggs then it tastes slimey and disgusting and you will want puke lol


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Aftershock said:


> The only way I can manage to eat raw eggs is to crack one into a glass and knock it on the head with the yoke intact.. then repeat until you have taken in the desired number..
> 
> If you whisk the eggs then it tastes slimey and disgusting and you will want puke lol


I have done the same thing. If you break the yoke it does get slimmey. Oh slimmier.......lol.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

I think the main reason people get salmonella is down to the way the chickens are raised and the conditions they have to live in, all that sh!t about its bound to breed diseases.

So better idea would to eat a good quality free range egg if you intend to consume them raw...

As for the avidin/biotin thing...Nature sorted this one out for you itself as the yolk contains an abundance of the stuff to counter act the avidin in the egg white...I would guess that those that suffered probs like deficenceys and got egg bound were consuming large amounts of just raw whites.

With the blending beating issue...I think thats come about through a mixture of a couple of things in that in the 60`s/70`s bbers would avaoid blending their eggs during to it being written that it would breakdown the fat molicules too much and make digestion a lot harder..now going from experiance I have found that lightly beaten raw eggs do digest better than whole or blended...to lightly whisk would simply be just like chewing the food so setting of a chain reaction in the food eaten..

With regards to hospital usage of raw eggs they used to treat burns victims many many years ago with whole raw eggs to help the body heal faster.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Nice OSC. You are one smart egg.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Free range eggs have 19 times the Omega 3's than store bought eggs.

Free range is good.


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

I'm lucky as I've got my own chickens - so I know that they are healthy... happy chickens = healthy eggs.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

damagedgoods said:


> I'm lucky as I've got my own chickens - so I know that they are healthy... happy chickens = healthy eggs.


How many chickens and how many eggs do you get in one day?


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

I've got 12Chickens atm - in the summer I get about a dozen a day - in the winter more like 3 per day... the good thing about them is that you knwo that they are healthy as is their diet....


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

A dozen a day, that would be awsome. How much does the feed cost you? Are the eggs cheaper to go buy them? Free range eggs are the bomb!


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## bkotey (Mar 29, 2007)

Musclehed said:


> OK im gonna add to the scientific arguement (sorry to whom I may offend). He is my arguement.
> 
> 1. Cooked eggs taste better.
> 
> ...


:tongue10:. God i luv smileys. And eggs. Do disagree with you though. This is obviously a complex subject. Any more convincing studies would be welcome. Cheers.


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## ben jamming (Jan 28, 2008)

I currently by liquid egg whites from the supermarket. I use these in shakes all the time as it states they are safe to eat raw. i also usually throw in 1 or 2 raw eggs as well. I find it so convenient to whisk up a big shake. I can drink a shake in about 5 minutes, if i tried to eat everything in it individually, I reckon it would take me about 20-30 minutes as I am a slow eater. Surely it cant make that much of a difference whether eaten raw or cooked??


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

iv started using pasterised egg whites myself, have a pint of them before bed everynight (roughly 15 egg whites as apparently 300ml is 10whites) thing is im sh1tting them straight back out in the morning still in a liquid state.lol, so im questioning whether or not the body can actually absorb them


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## JawD (Sep 15, 2004)

Could you not have found an older post?


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Nice read, and wasn't everyone nice and polite back then.


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## Cheese (Jul 7, 2009)

Ken Hutchinson said:


> Nice read, and wasn't everyone nice and polite back then.


I was just thinking that... and as winger asked damaged goods a question that never got answered, i'm gonna answer it.

I have 4 chicken they are only young so i get 1 egg off each of them all year round.

As they get older there egg laying deminises... when they are 5 years old, instead of 28 each week i would expect 12.

A bag of food costs £7.50 ($10 i think) and lasts 1 month

28 x 4 = 112 eggs

7.50/112 = 6p each

16 eggs for less than a pound isn't bad in my books


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## rodrigo (Jun 29, 2009)

personally i cook the little blighters, raw doesnt bother me either but had a case of food poisoning onetime and was fcuked if i knew were i got it so would rather avoid the raw ones


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## Jayo (Jul 23, 2009)

So just to clear this up...whisking them *is* or *isn't* ok to do? I tend to have mine scrambled all the time and occasionally poached. Or doesn't it make a difference??


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

This reminds me of a story.

A chicken and a pig were talking and they said that their owner treats them so well they should do something for him.

The chicken says to the pig, "hey, lets make our owner some bacon and egg!"


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

hackskii said:


> This reminds me of a story.
> 
> A chicken and a pig were talking and they said that their owner treats them so well they should do something for him.
> 
> The chicken says to the pig, "hey, lets make our owner some bacon and egg!"


Rotflmao, oh my.


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

LOL! That BS about blending causes the breaking of the bonds..... PSML:lol:

These scientists are basically talking about splitting atoms with a blender. The blade edge itself is thick enough to hold millions of bacteria let alone molecules. I personally disregard this research from these scientists. :cool2:


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## Olympus (Jul 19, 2009)

Amen to Greenlanterns contribution.

I like this board a lot - but sometimes the science gets overwhelming!

I'm a newbie - so haven't been consuming raw egg white for a great length of time - but yes, I put two egg whites in my protein shake and haven't thus far felt I'd been poisoned!

My major complaint about a high protein diet is that it gives me wind! But I'm not blaming that on the eggs!

LOL 

Olympus


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