# Quick question - 2 Chest days



## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Going to the gym today with a mate, primarily to spot him etc (He's new and I said I'd help out)

Anyways, Iv been up'ing the tempo on chest workouts because it's lagging, I hit chest Wesnesday and I'm still ever so 'slightly' sore , have I left enough time for rest to be hitting it again?

Not sure I have the restraint to go to the gym and not do anything other than Spot!

Reason I ask as this might become a regular thing, and I'm hoping it will be good for a lagging chest and not detrimental, cheers!


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

Its fine to train while still having some doms, Obviously not if you in bits from your last work out.

Might be hard the first time but your body will adapt to the higher frequency, this usually results in considerably less doms.

Eg, when I used to squat 1x per week I would get doms, now I squat 3x per week I dont get doms.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ok thanks man!

Last thing I want to do is over-train and halt progress, but my chest does need the extra work.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

You'll not overtrain, crack on


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

I didn't feel like over-trained which is good.

But it was a weak performance, same with shoulder workout yesterday...It's almost as if I just don't have the energy levels any more (I'm only 19 so no excuses lol)

My sleep is ok (Last night 1am-8am) about 7 hours

My diet is good, high carbs...But I usually have 3 boiled eggs and 2 pieces of toast as my pre-workout roughly about an hour before hitting the gym.

What could the lack of energy be? ..Iv notice strength loss because of it, rather worrying.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

Mclovin147 said:


> I didn't feel like over-trained which is good.
> 
> But it was a weak performance, same with shoulder workout yesterday...It's almost as if I just don't have the energy levels any more (I'm only 19 so no excuses lol)
> 
> ...


Its likely to take time for you to adapt to that frequency before your can perform at 100%. also its unusual to go all out 2-3x per week, training would normally be periodized.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Mclovin147 said:


> But it was a weak performance, same with *shoulder workout yesterday*...


My concern would be trying to train chest the day after shoulders, since particularly your front delts won't have had time to recover (or grow).

Have you tried either decline bench press or chest dips done like this?






Both hit the chest much more effectively than say a standard bench press IME.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Mclovin147 said:


> I didn't feel like over-trained which is good.
> 
> But it was a weak performance, same with shoulder workout yesterday...It's almost as if I just don't have the energy levels any more (I'm only 19 so no excuses lol)
> 
> ...


I'd have considerably more carbs before a workout personally, I aim for 50g roughly.

Which is usually chocolate or something.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Mclovin147 said:


> I didn't feel like over-trained which is good.
> 
> But it was a weak performance, same with shoulder workout yesterday...It's almost as if I just don't have the energy levels any more (I'm only 19 so no excuses lol)
> 
> ...


If it continues then back off for a week or two mate.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

(Sorry, don't know how to quote multiple people)

- I don't usually work both shoulders and chest so closely

- I finish my chest workouts with 3 sets of dips to Failure

- Eggs and toast is only about 20g Carbs so Il try doubling up carbs


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Mclovin147 said:


> (Sorry, don't know how to quote multiple people)


You click on the icon at the bottom right of each post with the + symbol, and then click on Reply With Quote.



Mclovin147 said:


> But I usually have 3 boiled eggs and 2 pieces of toast as my pre-workout roughly about an hour before hitting the gym.


If you're only having that about an hour before you workout it will mostly still be in your stomach. The protein in eggs isn't absorbed quickly due to the fat content. Personally I'd have the meal at least 2 hours before the workout, and have some whey or essential amino-acids just before you start the workout.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> You click on the icon at the bottom right of each post with the + symbol, and then click on Reply With Quote.
> 
> If you're only having that about an hour before you workout it will mostly still be in your stomach. The protein in eggs isn't absorbed quickly due to the fat content. Personally I'd have the meal at least 2 hours before the workout, and have some whey or essential amino-acids just before you start the workout.


Cheers for the advice mate.

Will try it all. I have a quite fast metabolism see, so if I wait 2 hours Il be hungry in the gym lol


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Mclovin147 said:


> Cheers for the advice mate.
> 
> Will try it all. I have a quite fast metabolism see, so if I wait 2 hours Il be hungry in the gym lol


Have the meal that will fuel your workout a couple of hours earlier, then eat something else closer to the workout so that you don't feel hungry.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Mingster said:


> Have the meal that will fuel your workout a couple of hours earlier, then eat something else closer to the workout so that you don't feel hungry.


Thanks budd will try it Monday and see if it makes a difference.


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

Mclovin147 said:


> I didn't feel like over-trained which is good.
> 
> But it was a weak performance, same with shoulder workout yesterday...It's almost as if I just don't have the energy levels any more (I'm only 19 so no excuses lol)
> 
> ...


eat more. loads more. dont be afraid of putting on a few% of BF.

that and upper lower:

chest, shoulders, back

legs (squat)

REST

chest, shoulders, back

legs (deadlift)

REST

REST


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

harryalmighty said:


> eat more. loads more. dont be afraid of putting on a few% of BF.
> 
> that and upper lower:
> 
> ...


Thanks mate.

Quick update;

I'm defiantly seeing a rise in my bf% lately, lost my skinny runt six-pack abs a while ago, and it's gradually getting worse, so I'm quite content that I'm eating enough to promote muscle growth (I only really eat meat/fish with pasta/rice)

Iv started doing as @Mingster suggested, eating high carb meals about 2 hours before working out, then having a little bit more grub before I set off on the 1 mile walk to the gym (That's going to be great for when I cut, will start running/sprinting)

Only thing I struggle with is eating in the morning...Soon as I pass 12pm I can eat all day, just really struggle in the mornings, so force feeding myself carbs and protein before my workouts (always workout at either 11am or 1pm)

Usually do a 6 day split

Mon - Shoulders

Tuesday - Legs

Wednesday - Chest

Thursday - Arms

Friday - Back

Saturday - Chest (Can swap this, only chest again because it's lagging)

My workouts rarely exceed an hour in length (usually 45 minutes) to preserve calories etc ..Short and sweet.


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

Mclovin147 said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> Quick update;
> 
> ...


try cutting down to 3/4 days a week - im assuming your natty?

what does your macro split look like currently?

how much do you weigh?


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

There's no law says you need to eat pre workout. Plenty of people train fasted. Just eat enough pre workout so lack of food doesn't become an issue for you. As long as you get your overall daily calories in you'll progress just fine.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

harryalmighty said:


> try cutting down to 3/4 days a week - im assuming your natty?
> 
> what does your macro split look like currently?
> 
> how much do you weigh?


I could try 3/4 a week ..I try to limit the amount of time I'm in gym, I'm thin as sh1t standard ectomorph, I burn through calories real quick, taking advice from the a 'Hodge Twins' video, if you struggle to put on weight spend as less time in the gym (Burning serious calories) as possible, get in smash a workout and get out.

Usually 60g Fat 200-210g Carb 140-160g Protein

Weigh about 65KG at around 13%-14% (Haven't measured either for a while though, just guessing)



Mingster said:


> There's no law says you need to eat pre workout. Plenty of people train fasted. Just eat enough pre workout so lack of food doesn't become an issue for you. As long as you get your overall daily calories in you'll progress just fine.


I was working off the assumption that if your train fasted you burn muscle?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Mclovin147 said:


> I could try 3/4 a week ..I try to limit the amount of time I'm in gym, I'm thin as sh1t standard ectomorph, I burn through calories real quick, taking advice from the a 'Hodge Twins' video, if you struggle to put on weight spend as less time in the gym (Burning serious calories) as possible, get in smash a workout and get out.
> 
> Usually 60g Fat 200-210g Carb 140-160g Protein
> 
> ...


Have you been watching the island with Bear Grillys? They were starved and didnt burn muscle mate, its not an issue


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Have you been watching the island with Bear Grillys? They were starved and didnt burn muscle mate, its not an issue


I caught the first two episodes mate, planning on watching the rest on Channel 4 on demand (Or whatever it is lol)

If that's true it will make my mornings a lot less unpleasant/more productive !

Purposely Diddnt go to the gym today because it closes at 1, I woke up too late to start eating properly and carb load for the gym...Ahh well, another rest day won't hurt. Give it a crack tomorrow now.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Mclovin147 said:


> I caught the first two episodes mate, planning on watching the rest on Channel 4 on demand (Or whatever it is lol)
> 
> If that's true it will make my mornings a lot less unpleasant/more productive !
> 
> Purposely Diddnt go to the gym today because it closes at 1, I woke up too late to start eating properly and carb load for the gym...Ahh well, another rest day won't hurt. Give it a crack tomorrow now.


There's probably 6 or 7 people on here any of this bro science would actually make a difference to (they tend to have titles above thier avi's) for the rest its just an excuse.

The fact one is training far outweighs the damage done by eating a mars bar.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

saxondale said:


> There's probably 6 or 7 people on here any of this bro science would actually make a difference to (they tend to have titles above thier avi's) for the rest its just an excuse.
> 
> The fact one is training far outweighs the damage done by eating a mars bar.


Learn something new everyday!

It's probably because all I ever get told is to 'Eat more' so I can easily see my self being 22St at 30% within the next 3 years if I don't drop the bro science bad habits lol

I'm hoping now that Iv also now upped my reps on everything to 10-12 instead of 7 Il start seeing more size being added. I feel like working my chest twice a week for the past 2-3 months has really improved it.

Don't feel as flat chested, devolving a good hard centre chest...just need to close the gap on me sternum and Il be making good progress.

Also gonna drop the Bb for a few months on my press...Get a better burn with DB's, see if it makes a difference.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Mclovin147 said:


> I could try 3/4 a week ..I try to limit the amount of time I'm in gym, I'm thin as sh1t standard ectomorph, I burn through calories real quick, taking advice from the a 'Hodge Twins' video, if you struggle to put on weight spend as less time in the gym (Burning serious calories) as possible, get in smash a workout and get out.
> 
> Usually 60g Fat 200-210g Carb 140-160g Protein
> 
> ...


Eat enough overall and you won't have an issue imo.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Mclovin147 said:


> Only thing I struggle with is eating in the morning...Soon as I pass 12pm I can eat all day, just really struggle in the mornings, so force feeding myself carbs and protein before my workouts (always workout at either 11am or 1pm)


What time do you get up and what do you normally have for breakfast?

I don't feel hungry when I first get up and used to struggle to make myself eat much whole food. In the form of a drink though I typically have over 700 kcals for breakfast, and could easily eat more if I wanted to. This is from a blended drink of oast, whole milk, unflovoured whey, a banana, some peanut butter and water to make it up to about 500 mL. Either buy ready ground oats (e.g. Bulk Powders Ultra Fine Oats), or same a load of cash and make your own. I just buy 'Value' oats from Tesco. Put the amount you want to drink in your blender first and blen them up before adding anything else.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> What time do you get up and what do you normally have for breakfast?
> 
> I don't feel hungry when I first get up and used to struggle to make myself eat much whole food. In the form of a drink though I typically have over 700 kcals for breakfast, and could easily eat more if I wanted to. This is from a blended drink of oast, whole milk, unflovoured whey, a banana, some peanut butter and water to make it up to about 500 mL. Either buy ready ground oats (e.g. Bulk Powders Ultra Fine Oats), or same a load of cash and make your own. I just buy 'Value' oats from Tesco. Put the amount you want to drink in your blender first and blen them up before adding anything else.


Yeah I seriously need to start doing this....Gotta fish out the old blender then! Not a lover of peanut butter will give it a crack mate


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Mclovin147 said:


> Yeah I seriously need to start doing this....Gotta fish out the old blender then! Not a lover of peanut butter will give it a crack mate


You don't have to have peanut butter, just an example. Sometimes I eat and handful of almonds rather than adding PB to the shake. I have in the past also had a couple of tea-spoons of extra virgin olive oil to add some fats, although I realise most people will think this sounds odd! I drank this straight off the spoon, rather than adding it to the shake as I didn't like the taste.

By the way, I'm an ectomorth, train 3 times per week, including chest twice per week and my chest is growing. Do try the decline chest exercises I suggested above if you haven't already, flat bench did little for me and I'm currently just doing chest dips and decline DB presses (on different days).

What does your current chest day consist of actually?


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> You don't have to have peanut butter, just an example. Sometimes I eat and handful of almonds rather than adding PB to the shake. I have in the past also had a couple of tea-spoons of extra virgin olive oil to add some fats, although I realise most people will think this sounds odd! I drank this straight off the spoon, rather than adding it to the shake as I didn't like the taste.
> 
> By the way, I'm an ectomorth, train 3 times per week, including chest twice per week and my chest is growing. Do try the decline chest exercises I suggested above if you haven't already, flat bench did little for me and I'm currently just doing chest dips and decline DB presses (on different days).
> 
> What does your current chest day consist of actually?


Yeah Iv heard of the oil trick before, sounds gross but you won't know until you try!

We only have one decline bench in the gym I go to, and my upper chest is lagging so I'm usually trying to put most wor into incline.

My chest day looks like this;

Flat Bench BB: 10x4

Standing cable flyes: 10x4

Incline BB: 10x4

DB Flat bench/DB Incline/DB Flyes it's alternates week to week: 7x4

3-4 sets of dips to failure

Usually works good.

Only exercises I don't rate highly is DB Flyes, never really work my chest that well


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Mclovin147 said:


> We only have one decline bench in the gym I go to, and my upper chest is lagging so I'm usually trying to put most wor into incline.


It's hard to say without a picture, but based on your body weight my gut feeling is that you should be worrying about developing overall chest size and not likely minor perceived imbalances. Remember than the lower pec (the bit that attaches to the sternum) is by far the largest part, and the major contributer to overall chest size. You could mix decline and incline of course.



> My chest day looks like this;
> 
> Flat Bench BB: 10x4
> 
> ...


What do you mean by 'usually works good', I thought you were unhappy with your chest development?

When you say 10x4 do you mean 10 sets of 4 reps (how I would normally read it), or 4 sets of 10 reps? I'm guessing the latter would be more likely, but if you're doing the former I'd change that!


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's hard to say without a picture, but based on your body weight my gut feeling is that you should be worrying about developing overall chest size and not likely minor perceived imbalances. Remember than the lower pec (the bit that attaches to the sternum) is by far the largest part, and the major contributer to overall chest size.
> 
> What do you mean by 'usually works good', I thought you were unhappy with your chest development?
> 
> When you say 10x4 do you mean 10 sets of 4 reps (how I would normally read it), or 4 sets of 10 reps? I'm guessing the latter would be more likely, but if you're doing the former I'd change that!


Yeah overall chest devolement is the only reason why I keep BB bench. But Il be switching to dumbells from next week for a couple of months to see if it makes a difference.

It's 4 sets of 10 reps yeah lol sorry not with it it today mate.

Usually a good workout regarding Flat bench (But I think that's down to my form, I don't retract shoulders and push out chest enough I think, will drop the weight tomorrow and experiment with higher weights and see what I can achieve, but then Il be swapping to DB's because I always get good workout with them)

Also DB flyes don't do much for my chest I find, again will keep tweaking form to see if I can nail it.

Weakest part of my chest is lower-inner chest, next to zero mass, best would be outer lower-middle outer chest. Il upload a pick of my chest progress now mate to give you a better idea.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Are you increasing tbe weights your lifting? Your not going to get bigger until you do. Start at the start, move more weight.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

My tensed chest at 65KG bodyweight lol

Long road ahead!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Mclovin147 said:


> My tensed chest at 65KG bodyweight lol
> 
> Long road ahead!
> 
> View attachment 152108


Thought you were a skinny fcker?


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Are you increasing tbe weights your lifting? Your not going to get bigger until you do. Start at the start, move more weight.


Yeah I am budd.

Just jumped from 22.5KG flat DB to 25KG DB

I jumped too much on BB (60KG-70KG) might bring it back down to 65KG to help the form.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Thought you were a skinny fcker?


I think I bloody am!

The extra bf% Iv gained the past months has helped...I'm more of a skinny-fat packing a little muscle than what I used to be which was just a skinny guy!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Mclovin147 said:


> I think I bloody am!
> 
> The extra bf% Iv gained the past months has helped...I'm more of a skinny-fat packing a little muscle than what I used to be which was just a skinny guy!


I get you and merklman mixed up - just keep doing what your doing, its going the right way, it took me 18 months to start to think I looked like I worked out


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Mclovin147 said:


> Usually a good workout regarding Flat bench (But I think that's down to my form, I don't retract shoulders and push out chest enough I think, will drop the weight tomorrow and experiment with higher weights and see what I can achieve, but then Il be swapping to DB's because I always get good workout with them)


So good in the sense of it feels like you've worked your chest?



> Also DB flyes don't do much for my chest I find, again will keep tweaking form to see if I can nail it.


Loads of people here rate flies, but personally I've not bothered with them after watching this:






The video makes sense to me, and as I've had shoulder issues in the past I'm not going to risk it. If flies don't work for you I personally wouldn't stress about it and just not do them.



> Weakest part of my chest is lower-inner chest, next to zero mass, best would be outer lower-middle outer chest. Il upload a pick of my chest progress now mate to give you a better idea.


I don't believe you can seperately work inner/outer chest, a muscle contracts along its whole length. The reason you can target upper/lower chest is because the muscle has different attachments, to the sternum and to the clavicle. The 'lower-inner chest' you mention as having next to zero mass would seriously benefit from decline movements IMHO.

BTW, do you train natty or assisted?


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> So good in the sense of it feels like you've worked your chest?
> 
> Loads of people here rate flies, but personally I've not bothered with them after watching this:
> 
> ...


Yeah I mean a good workout, good pump & burn.

I'm the same mate, I love standing cable flyes, they really do burn...It's my go to chest workout, DB flyes just don't do the same for me.

Yeah I know what you mean mate, I haven't done decline for months because of only having one crappy bench that does decline, Il start using it mate.

I'm natty budd.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

^

I posted the above before seeing your photo. Your chest doesn't look like it is lagging to me!


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> ^
> 
> I posted the above before seeing your photo. Your chest doesn't look like it is lagging to me!


I feel like I have a set of tits rather than a muscular chest lol

Need to hit upper more...those lines abouty chest are my collar bone unfortunately 

I also think the lighting and angle does it wonders in the pictures, it's not an impressive chest by any means mate...only benches 80Kg max lol


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

harryalmighty said:


> eat more. loads more. dont be afraid of putting on a few% of BF.
> 
> that and upper lower:
> 
> ...


How do you even manage doing chest AND back in the same day AND shoulders lol i'm fvcked just off shoulders alone.


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> How do you even manage doing chest AND back in the same day AND shoulders lol i'm fvcked just off shoulders alone.


ok so for example my monday workout is:

flat DB bench 3x6

tbar rows 3x6

weighted dips 2x8

DB rows 2x8

lateral raises 2/3x15

thursday upper:

incline DB 3x8

weighted chins 3x6

shoulder DB press 2x8

Pull downs 2x10

CGBP 2x8

frequency and intensity over volume per body part works best for me.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

harryalmighty said:


> ok so for example my monday workout is:
> 
> flat DB bench 3x6
> 
> ...


Doesn't seem like enough to me. And do you not do squats/deads?


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> Doesn't seem like enough to me. And do you not do squats/deads?


monday - upper

tuesday - legs (squat

weds rest

thurs - upper

friday - legs (deadllift)

sat - rest

sun - rest

the above upper examples i gave you obviously have 1-2 'warm up' sets prior to those to get a feel. but its plently of volume for an upper workout if your putting your all into the sets you shouldnt want to do anymore.

also you can look at it like this - take my pushing exercises for example:

flat DB press 3x6

weighted dips 2x8

shoulder press 2x10

CGBP 2X8

lateral raises 2x15

thats a push day right there, just spread over two days. training 'intensity' can be anything man: frequency, volume, % of 1RM etc. also should note i train natty. why would i go in the gym do whats required to stimulate growth (4-6 sets per body part) then leave and not hit the body part again for a week. id rather go in do less sets with more intensity then smash it again 48hrs later.

some will say if you favour frequency why not PPLx2 per week (3 on 1 off) and this is because my recovery protocol would be messed up.

hope that is explained well enough.


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