# Struggling To Gain or More Patience?



## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

I'm 18 years old, 6ft2 and 72/73kg (11 and a half stone).

I lost a lot of wait a couple of years ago due to an eating disorder which left me very skinny all over (9 stone at 6ft1) - particularly my back. I have gradually put on weight and have got to healthy stage. My diet has always remained low fat and I've started to try to bulk. I've been hitting the gym for about a month and a half and reshaped my diet and workouts 5 weeks ago. Here it is:

I eat almost the same thing every day and only drink shed loads of water and some coffee:

Breakfast: 8.am

60g Porridge Oats with 250ml of Skimmed Milk and almonds

Banana

Snack:10.30 a.m

Apple

Lunch: 12.30pm

1 tin of Tuna with 2 slices Burgen soya & lynseed bread w/ lettuce

Banana

Pre Workout: 1.30pm

Whey Protein Shake

Post Workout: 4pm

Whey Protein Shake

Dinner: 6pm

Changes daily, usually something like wholewheat pasta with bolognese; 2 chicken breasts with vegetables; chilli con carne & rice

(ALways large Servings)

Before Bed:

Whey Protein Shake

Chicken Breast Pieces

Multiseed Pitta

I train: Monday: Abs & Chest; Tuesday: Legs; Wednesday: Abs & Back; Thursday: Biceps & Triceps; Friday: Abs & Shoulders; Saturday: Rest; Sunday: Hill Sprints x 8

-

I'm seen slight definition improvements in my arms, chest and legs. My abs have always been pretty good and obliques are improving but I don't seem to be truly bulking up as much as I'd like. I still feel quite skinny in the gym.

I'm wondering whether I'm doing anything wrong, should add anything to my diet, or if I just need patience?

thanks


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## dalboy (Sep 16, 2009)

How many calories a day is that? For 6ft2 doesnt seem nowhere near enough to gain weight.

Diet also lacking fats. No fish? Red meat?

Why are you on a low fat diet? Dietry fat is not related to body fat...


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## Andrewgenic (Jul 5, 2010)

I would start by eating more mate, try having something more substantial than an apple in the 10:30 slot for a start, some fish maybe.

Peoples metabolism varies enormously so you have to find what works for you, but you only gain muscle mass if you or in calorific surplus. My metabolism is very quick and as a result I have to eat $hitloads to grow which can sometimes be inconvenient. The best thing to do is plan ahead and try not to rely on shakes too much, although I am guilty of this for convenience sake.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

It comes in at about 2700. I try to keep saturated fats down so i don't gain excess fats, but I do also try to eat nuts throughout the day which i've missed out (taking them to uni.) My dinner changes every day and eat red meat, like steak mince and fish, depending on what's being made in the house! it's all home-cooked so all good stuff. How much calories should I be getting? and where from?


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

I used to be overweight before i drastically (and stupidly) lost a lot and always seemed to gain fat pretty easily, but because my diet has been pretty normal calories and low fat, I'm not sure ho quick my metabolism at the moment.


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## dalboy (Sep 16, 2009)

I would say roughly 3500

Your young so your body may still be growing.

Shakes are good to hit your target calories but rely on proper food rather than the shakes. Oats, whey, some ice cream, olive oil got me about 800 calories a shake. 2 a day thats 1600 already.

If I was you I would slowly increase calorie intake each week. Workout the macros so you know exactly what you should be consuming and what you are actually consuming. Less room for incorrect judgement.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

Right cool, I'll try to increase my eating then. If I'm off uni, I get protein from chicken or fish in the house, but I'm in studying at the moment so the protein shakes are kinda my only option. If I up my calorie intake, should I see results pretty quickly? I worry I depleted my muscles so much they'll struggle to grow.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

between 1:30-6:00 u need to add some food instead of or along side the shakes


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

and add some fats pre bed meal to slow absorbtion of the protein handful of peanuts or scoop of peanut butter


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Don't think you are getting enough protein at breakfast, looks low on calories throughout, if possible i would try to eat more whole food than shakes.

To be honest mate I feel your pain making the leap of faith to eat more food, i slimmed down to a fairly lean 88kg from a fat 103kg, I am about to start bulkling soon but I am terrified of gaining fat. At the end of the day you probably need to eat more than you think! Just stick with it, if you aren't gaining mass add cals.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

Food alongside the shakes is mentioned.. does this mean carbs? Wholemeal bread or something? I hate eggs so breakfast protein will need to come elsewhere. I get some protein from the porridge and oats but not sure what other protein i can get at that time? more chicken haha?

Yeah, i think i'll always have the bit at the back of my mind which is scared of gaining fat mate, but i'm just going to go for it and hope the rewards come!


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

*porridge and almonds


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

pasta,spuds and rice better than bread for carbs


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## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

I don't think you are going to see results as quick as you'd like. Your training time is not long at all in total, you need at least a year to see decend results as for a newbie you make your best gains in a year, its also the test of time, most people give up leading up to the year when they realise that its going to take 5-10-15 years to look like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman and a truck load of steroids.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

I don't want to get to a body building stage, more an athletic look. I want to have good muscle definition and mass and a balanced body. I know a guy who used to compete and he's massive, which I have mega respect for, but that isn't for me.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Discussions of daily calorie aside, i think that at your height and weight you should be looking at being able to gain 2-4lbs of lean muscle a month. As you are bulking, I'd expect total weight gain to be a little higher, somewhere in the range of 4-6lbs per month to take into account extra water and glycogen weight and some fat gain.

If you are gaining any less than 2lbs per month (both lean and fat gains combined) then I'd suggest maybe you aren't eating enough... and if gaining more than 6lbs then most likely you are gaining a lot more fat than muscle. If in the mid range though I wouldn't worry, and just try to be patient


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## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

6lbs a month is going to be a lot of fat gain... keeping bf levels where they are you are looking at about 2lb a month to stay lean.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

nice, i'll track my weight progress over the next few months. Thanks for all the advice so far by the way. It was mentioned i should eat more between 1.30 and 6, so try to get pasta, rice with my shake an hour after lunch? (assuming workout usually starts at just after 2.) Then more carbs with shake right after i'm done at 4?


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## Fullhouse (Mar 31, 2010)

You need more food and less protein shakes imo. Also where you have an apple should be a meal


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

LunaticSamurai said:


> 6lbs a month is going to be a lot of fat gain... keeping bf levels where they are you are looking at about 2lb a month to stay lean.


Yep, for me 2-3lbs per month is my lean gains zone... anything more is usually mostly fat.. unless it's training after a long lay-off and muscle memory is leanding a hand. Same rule applies when coming from a position of malnourishment. In those cases 3-6lbs of lean gains is perfectly possible with the right training and diet, but under normal circumstances for a natural 3-4lbs per month lean muscle is probably optimal.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

along side the extra carbs you want some protein so fish meat or nuts.


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## rocky666 (Jul 9, 2009)

to many people complicate things on here. Get a heavyweight gainer drink instead of whey. Something that has 800 cals per serving or more have one for brekky one postwork and one before bed then have 3 meals inbetween. I have done this with loads of underweight people over the years and its always work. Yes its not rocket science but it works. Dont overtrain also 3 times a week is plenty to start with.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

rocky666 said:


> *to many people complicate things on here.* Get a heavyweight gainer drink instead of whey. Something that has 800 cals per serving or more have one for brekky one postwork and one before bed then have 3 meals inbetween. I have done this with loads of underweight people over the years and its always work. Yes its not rocket science but it works. Dont overtrain also 3 times a week is plenty to start with.


Agreed


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

rocky666 said:


> to many people complicate things on here. Get a heavyweight gainer drink instead of whey. Something that has 800 cals per serving or more have one for brekky one postwork and one before bed then have 3 meals inbetween. I have done this with loads of underweight people over the years and its always work. Yes its not rocket science but it works. Dont overtrain also 3 times a week is plenty to start with.


is adding extra meals really confusing?


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## rocky666 (Jul 9, 2009)

also stop training everyday in the week train every other day. You need higher carbs Your 6ft 2 i have mate 6ft 3 and i swear down he eats bucket loads of food and never gets fat. And why the hill sprints when your training to gain weight. Diet and recovery are equally as important in your case.


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## steven_SRi (Nov 5, 2009)

i used to like making up big batches of chili with lean minced beef,kidney beans chick peas, tinned chopped tomatos. fill loads of tuppawear boxes with it, easy to take with you, quick to re heat and good with rice etc. a nice quick easy meal


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

yeah, i think i'll make big batches of things and take it with me. It's a monetary issue and the inconvenience of univeristy haha.

There's been lots of great advice but in terms of actually putting things into my diet it's a little confusing. Actually copying and pasting what i already eat and adding/subtracting would clear things up a little. If anyone can be bothered ha


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

ryan67 said:


> I'm 18 years old, 6ft2 and 72/73kg (11 and a half stone).
> 
> Breakfast: 8.am
> 
> ...


Mate, some ideas, not a finalised diet just some improvements I would make. Remember coffee is a diuretic. Cals can be added where necessary to make your macros correct. Hope this helps.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

If you are bulking then add a mass shake like: http://www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk/boditronics-mass-attack-evo---4kg-free-250g-boditronics-creatine-4652-p.asp

And have some protein with your breakfast, gains don't come overnight mate... you have to work at it


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

thanks a lot mate, I'll try make some ammendments like you've suggested. Definitely be increasing the intake anyway. I can't stmach eggs, but i think i'll eat some peanut butter or chicken in the morning to boost my breakfast. At night, i'm at home so can get proper food proteins before bed which will cut me down to 1 shake a day. Think the basic idea is I need more protein, an extra meal and adding in carbs with the protein and more healthy fats and fish.

Thanks for all the advice, always welcome


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

Going to try something like:

Breakfast: 8.am

60g Porridge Oats with 250ml of Skimmed Milk and almonds

Banana

*Chicken pieces*

Snack:10.30 a.m

*Tin of Tuna*

*
Oatcakes*

Apple

Lunch: 12.00pm

Tuna with 2 slices Burgen soya & lynseed bread w/ lettuce

Banana

Pre Workout: 1.45pm

*Chicken Pieces*

*
Potatoes/rice/cous cous (whatever available from uni canteen)*

Post Workout: 4pm

Whey Protein Shake

*30g oats*

Dinner: 6pm

Changes daily, usually something like wholewheat pasta with bolognese; 2 chicken breasts with vegetables; chilli con carne & rice

(ALways large Servings)

Before Bed:

*Wholemeal Toast with peanut butter*

*
1/4 tin of tuna that didn't fit on my lunch sandwich!*

*
Chicken pieces*

Might try making batches of chilli. should i sub this in for the 10.30 snack, lunch or pre-workout?


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

What do you mean when you say chicken pieces? Also, I recommended the mackerel for good fats, I don't think you have enough, even with the pnut butter


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

ryan67 said:


> thanks a lot mate, I'll try make some ammendments like you've suggested. Definitely be increasing the intake anyway. I can't stmach eggs, but i think i'll eat some peanut butter or chicken in the morning to boost my breakfast. At night, i'm at home so can get proper food proteins before bed which will cut me down to 1 shake a day. Think the basic idea is I need more protein, an extra meal and adding in carbs with the protein and more healthy fats and fish.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice, always welcome


Although chicken etc is better, there is no need to be afraid of shakes, if you are looking to gain then by all means have more on top of a good diet if you can stomach them... personally i'd have a 50g whey shake with the breakfast and fit the chicken in somewhere else in the day.. eating chicken fillets at 8am wouldn't be my choice, but if you don't mind them do that


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

Niall, tinned mackerel? On it's own or on bread mate? Never tried it as far as i'm aware, but i like all fish. The chicken pieces are pieces of chicken breast, 26g of protein per pack & 1.2g sat fat.

Raptor, it's a pain not being able to eat eggs as they seem a good choice in the morning. I think you're probably right, chicken that ealy might not go down too well when it comes to it haha.

Someone asked earlier about the hill sprints. I want to maintain good fitness level and the hill sprints are short and high intensity (the workout lasts no more than 15 mins). This is to burn fat but minimize muscle loss (like the 4.5 mile runs i used to do.) The hill sprints also kill my legs which need a lot of work, my calves especially which will help. Once a week shouldn't be detremental.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

I'd go for fresh mackerel if possible. I am not sure about tinned mackerel, i have never liked it but check it's nutrients and if there are loads of good fats go for it.

I hope we aren't talking about Fridge Raiders chicken pieces!


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

haha nah man, Bernard Mathews. Just like cut up chicken breast really, pretty good.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

So here's what I ate today:

Breakfast: 8.am

60g Porridge Oats with 250ml of Skimmed Milk and almonds

Whey Protein Shake

Snack:10.30 a.m

Tin of tuna

4 Oatcakes

Lunch: 12.30pm

1 tin of Tuna with 2 slices Burgen soya & lynseed bread w/ lettuce

Apple

Pre Workout: 2.30pm

1 Chicken Breast

Cous Cous

Post Workout: 5pm

Whey Protein Shake with Oats

Dinner: 7pm

Homemade chilli con carne with kidney beans & boiled rice

10pm:

2 slices of burgen bread toasted with peanut butter

Bernard Mathews Chicken Breast Pieces

Feel like I've eaten a horse! This look good?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

carry on like that for a bit if gains arent enough just add a bit more food


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Any idea on macros? If you eat more or less the same stuff every day it is worth knowing in my opinion, then you can manipulate and controlvery easily.


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## arrymc (Apr 19, 2011)

its only 5 weeks these things take time, how hard do you train ? do you train alone? i see alot of young new weight trainers start training but they really dont know what they are doing and dont push them selves to failure and flit from kit to kit,

i would really advise training with or at least watching the larger experienced guys as you can learn alot, also i am about your height and was about 8 1/2 stone when i was your age (used to be a runner) now 29 and 16st mainly muscle, try swapping your whey protein for some thing like a mass gainer bsn's cell mass worked great for me i saw really quick gains in size and strengh but you are still talking months and years not weeks , i used to eat about 3500 cal a day and about 180 - 200 grams of protein, like people have said previously you arent eating enough fats your body needs em ( mackerel fillets 3 times a week are great, cheap too so perfect for a student )eating a moderate amount of fats wont do any harm they will help you


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

niall01 said:


> Any idea on macros? If you eat more or less the same stuff every day it is worth knowing in my opinion, then you can manipulate and controlvery easily.


Not sure how to calculate them exactly mate? Total calories come in at about 3200.


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## arrymc (Apr 19, 2011)

just got to read packets weigh things for a bit if your not sure what your eating , or try caloriecount.about.com it tells you exactly whats in what food and what you are not eating enough of ,ignore the overall caloreis bit though it will always tell you that you are eating too much colories when you are bulking it just helps give you a good idea of what your actually eating . like i said before aim for around 3500


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

ryan67 said:


> Not sure how to calculate them exactly mate? Total calories come in at about 3200.


Total calories sound reasonable to me mate. To calculate macros just type in the food you are looking for followed by calories (ie chicken breast calories) and there's lots of sites with nutritional breakdowns. Not essential if you are sure your protein and fats are at a good level, but as I say if your diet is similar each day then you can have confidence in the values. I know everyone can't be bothered doing this, but I think it is worth doing. I think it would help you to develop a better overall knowledge of nutrition and be able to make good choices when you are stuck etc.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

arrymc said:


> its only 5 weeks these things take time, how hard do you train ? do you train alone? i see alot of young new weight trainers start training but they really dont know what they are doing and dont push them selves to failure and flit from kit to kit,
> 
> i would really advise training with or at least watching the larger experienced guys as you can learn alot, also i am about your height and was about 8 1/2 stone when i was your age (used to be a runner) now 29 and 16st mainly muscle, try swapping your whey protein for some thing like a mass gainer bsn's cell mass worked great for me i saw really quick gains in size and strengh but you are still talking months and years not weeks , i used to eat about 3500 cal a day and about 180 - 200 grams of protein, like people have said previously you arent eating enough fats your body needs em ( mackerel fillets 3 times a week are great, cheap too so perfect for a student )eating a moderate amount of fats wont do any harm they will help you


It's kind of hard to put a value on how hard someone trains. I don't go into the gym and mosey about like a lot of guys do. I train alone, but I stick my earphones in and get what needs to be done done, and then I'm out. Helps me concentrate more than standing about talking. My sessions usually last 2 hours, I work around the same schedule, but try to mix things up by doing trisets and supersets. If I feel I have a more to give, I'll do more until I feel I've done what I possibly can.

I'll try this mackerel suggestion that people are saying.. I am getting fats from the nuts I eat and eat fish in tuna twice a day.

How do the macros work, I have all the information on calories of each thing I eat.. but do I look at grams of protein, carbs and fats in each? Nothing is pure protein, pure carbs etc.. and is it healthy fats I look at?


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Everything pretty much has 4 values, calories, protien, carbs and fats. Note them all, that's the value of the food.

If you are training for 2 hours i doubt you are training intensely enough.


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## ryan67 (May 4, 2011)

Sorry I haven't replied earlier.. I just calculated the grams of protein, carbs and fat in this diet and it worked out as 271 grams of protein, 313.6 carbs and 129.8 fat. Considering my weight at the moment is this too much? too little? I'm not sure, feel like I'm eating a lot.


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