# i do behind the neck barbell pressing!!



## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

i have been doing behind the neck shoulder pressing(seated) as a staple in my shoulder routine...everybody keeps telling they are bad,and i need to change to front presses or try dumbells...but i have been doing them for years,no problems...and quite heavy too...i do believe in the saying,if it works for you dont change it!!!!

i may be one of those lucky robust people who it works for and benefits from it...i believe we are all different by DNA and we all respond,however minute the difference...differently!!!!

my behind the neck pressing feels bloody lovely,pumps are brill,feel the exercise and really gain from it...on occasion i do swap em for dumbells but i wont rid that exercise....why should i?


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

I like BTNP personally.

I don't think n00bies should be doing it, but I think it's a worthwhile exercise.

Issues come from BTNP when the person has done too much benching and front delts overpower rear delts.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

thanks for that advice th&s...i will bear that in mind...cos you just never know when too much is too much til it bloody well goes on ya!!!


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

i do it too and really see the benefit

as you said everyone is different


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

yeh i think its great exercise i love it, get awesome pumps from it.

this guy love sit too, all the way up to 200kg!! :


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

I stopped doing this years ago as it affected my shoulders so bad I couldnt hold a barbell in place without being in agony. In turn it stopped me squatting as I was i so much pain holding the bar in place. I guess Im just not flexible enough.


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

I personally dont do behind the neck exercises as i get alot of strain there which wouldnt be good in the long term causing me all sorts of problems. Id advise stick to the front.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

'behind the neck press places the shoulder joint in a compromising situation, especially for beginners.The joints are readily shoved to the dislocation position, the range of motion putting gratuitous stress on the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulders.

'

http://www.wowbodybuilding.com/shoulders-exercise/behind-the-neck-press.html


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## Lift (May 27, 2008)

^^^^^Its a danger for alot of people as the infraspinatus (an RC) can be impeded as it crosses over the acromion process (upper portion of scapula). Can ruin the shoulder in some cases!


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

Lift said:


> ^^^^^Its a danger for alot of people as the infraspinatus (an RC) can be impeded as it crosses over the acromion process (upper portion of scapula). Can ruin the shoulder in some cases!


This is the simple reason why i dont do it.


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## Lift (May 27, 2008)

Ollie B said:


> This is the simple reason why i dont do it.


Likewise! The danger outweighs the benefit in my mind


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## orange86 (Feb 17, 2008)

my chest is pushed forwards from alot of benching, how do i push it back, strengthen the back delts?


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

This excersise is NOT for me, but if its not uncomfortable to others, then I see no reason not to include it in a routine.

Many swear by this as the best overall shoulder building movement


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

So long as it doesn't hurt.

I personally would do front presses heavy and behind the neck presses lighter but it's whatever feels good to ya.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

The joints are not placed into the dislocate position, you are just required to externally rotate your shoulders.

If you are unable to externally rotate your shoulders, as is common with too much heavy flat bench and not enough RC/rear delt/shoulder girdle work then you will have other problems, which would preclude you from doing Barbell Back Squats for example.


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## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

TH&S said:


> The joints are not placed into the dislocate position, you are just required to externally rotate your shoulders.
> 
> If you are unable to externally rotate your shoulders, as is common with too much heavy flat bench and not enough RC/rear delt/shoulder girdle work then you will have other problems, which would preclude you from doing Barbell Back Squats for example.


De ja vu mate?

As above the joint is not dislocated (that would hurt a bit wouldnt it) nor is it subluxated (partially dislocated).

re someone post above- the infraspinatus is no where near, nor can it ever cross the acromion process. the infraspinatus (yes a rotator cuff muscle) attaches at the proximal humeral head and the medial border of the scapula.

it is not possible for the acromion process to be crossed by any muscle. are you thinking of the coracoid process? this is implicated in RC impingement.

behind the neck press is often done with bad form and too heavy a weight. maybe it doesnt suit your anatomy...I wouldnt brand it dangerous or wholly bad though.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Lift said:


> Likewise! The danger outweighs the benefit in my mind


Bingo..............


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

TH&S said:


> .....you will have other problems, which would preclude you from doing Barbell Back Squats for example.


Intestingly i cannot hold the barbell in the conventional way for back squats and therefore have to hook my arms around the bar and hold onto the plates due to the stresses on my shoulders.

Seems i have gone too far on the bench and not enough on the back?

Any way to remedial this?bent over rows are ok to an extent but above 50kg per side starts straining my lower back big time(old injury).

All info appreciated.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

thats the point-every one different with regards to range of movement in joints eg some can do press behind neck-like me and rear chins too -easy for me,guy i know cannot do press behind neck as he is very stiff,so folk should do the exercise that works for them to allow poundage progression safely not try to copy everyone else. find your best/most comfortable major exercises and work hard


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

My general test is that if my shoulder makes constant clicking noises, or it hurts then I don't do it, which is the case of these. I mush prefer push-presses, pressing the bar in front of my head, almost shaving the front of my face as I thrust the bar upwards, to directly over my head.


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

that said I can do them for for a rep or two, with moderate weights, e.g. when dismounting from a back squat position


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## Lift (May 27, 2008)

pauly7582 said:


> De ja vu mate?
> 
> As above the joint is not dislocated (that would hurt a bit wouldnt it) nor is it subluxated (partially dislocated).
> 
> ...


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

paulo said:


> thats the point-every one different with regards to range of movement in joints eg some can do press behind neck-like me and rear chins too -easy for me,


Paulo,i used to be able to do them fine and the same with the squat with the bar behind the neck.Could this be a lack of flexibility thing and something that i may be able to work back with some form of physio?

If so,any idea what exercises/stretches i should use?

Thanks.


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

I do them - usually every other session alternating with dumbbell presses, though I go lighter if I'm pressing behind the neck


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## Ironhorse (Mar 21, 2008)

I love behind the neck presses, i have no trouble doing them.

I do believe though going lower than your earlobes though is asking for trouble. I have seen people have alot of trouble with these but have also seen people myself included get away with silly weights.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I really cant do them anymore, I used to be able to do them when I was young, but if I loaded up on the bar and went for it, I would rip something.

As lift suggested, the benefits to risk factor make these a no brainer.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I really cant do them anymore, I used to be able to do them when I was young, but if I loaded up on the bar and went for it, I would rip something.
> 
> As lift suggested, the benefits to risk factor make these a no brainer.


For you perhaps, but that doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat.

Perhaps if people concentrated more on things like flexibility and constructing a rounded physique some of these issues would not occur.

@Blue - yes you are way to tight on your Pecs and Delts. I've heard it all over the boards that the only Rear Delt Work you need to do is rows, frankly I don't believe it.

Physio would be my first 'solid' suggestion. But why not start a thread tracking your progress? It would sure make interesting reading. MissBC and AH24 (among others) would have some insight no doubt.

Do you own any woody bands? Have a look into doing Broomstick Shoulder Dislocates but with a Woody Band or Towel rather than a broom handle initially.

I do 25 BSD per day (when I can be bothered :whistling: ) and it's getting easier and more flexible.

If you are struggling to correctly back squat then you are setting yourself up for longer term issues.

@Pauly - great minds think alike.

Too everyone generally - heres a concept for you all... Why not do some light Behind The Neck Pressing and then build from there...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

This is an exercise that places the shoulder joint into the dislocation position and the range of motion puts unnecessary stress on the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulders.

If two exercises offer similar benefits and one is more of a risk for shoulder injury than the other why do the one that offers no added benefit and adds risk of injury?

I know of no physical therapist that would even suggest these yet suggest them not be done.

Snip from some where else.

Problem #1: Rotation of the shoulder to achieve the overhead position makes the posterior deltoid totally ineffective at resisting gravity. The medial deltoid has limited function, if any, in this position, depending upon an individual's structure. Therefore, the exercise is almost entirely anterior deltoid work.

Problem #2: The rotation required to get the bar behind the head puts an enormous amount of stress o the rotator cuff and joint itself, as this is considered by the medical professional as the "most compromised position" for a shoulder joint. For some individuals it is even impossible to achieve this extreme position.

Problem #3: The depth of movement or range of motion commonly recommended is to touch the bar to the neck or occiput. This extreme range increases the stress on undesirable components exponentially. Meanwhile, the anterior deltoid becomes less effective at moving the weight at that depth due to loss of the force angle.

Problem #4: There is no substantial reason for moving the bar behind the head. This exercise is not only ineffective for most individual's goals, but is blatantly dangerous.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

hackskii said:


> This is an exercise that places the shoulder joint into the dislocation position and the range of motion puts unnecessary stress on the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulders.
> 
> If two exercises offer similar benefits and one is more of a risk for shoulder injury than the other why do the one that offers no added benefit and adds risk of injury?
> 
> ...


I used to do these and enjoy them, then i kept hearing that they are bad for your shoulders so i stopped doing them, when i tried to do them again just a few wks ago it was too painful even with a light weight.

I wish i'd never stopped doing them.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

mars1960 said:


> I used to do these and enjoy them, then i kept hearing that they are bad for your shoulders so i stopped doing them, when i tried to do them again just a few wks ago it was too painful even with a light weight.
> 
> I wish i'd never stopped doing them.


I cant rep you again..........

For the record my brother cant do them either, but he is a very strong overhead standup presser.

Why subject the body to a totally un-natural movement in the hope of more gains?

Nobody lifts behind the neck..................not natural by all means, as well as behind the neck pulldowns/pullups............


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

TH&S said:


> Do you own any woody bands? Have a look into doing Broomstick Shoulder Dislocates
> 
> I do 25 BSD per day (when I can be bothered :whistling: ) and it's getting easier and more flexible.


What are these? I can press behind the neck no problem but generally, I'm not very flexible...


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Beklet said:


> What are these? I can press behind the neck no problem but generally, I'm not very flexible...


I'll try and explain....

Take a bungee chord and hold it down near the pelvic area with straight arms,keeping the arms straight as possible,raise over the head....keep going right over until the bungee reaches your lower back/bum.....and return,again with straight arms.

25per day TH&S says.

I shall start them on saturday after my chest workout,going for a max lift of 4 plates per side so dont want to reduce my chances of success. 

Ooops,thanks for reminding me of this exercise TH&S.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

TH&S said:


> @Blue - yes you are way to tight on your Pecs and Delts. I've heard it all over the boards that the only Rear Delt Work you need to do is rows, frankly I don't believe it.
> 
> Physio would be my first 'solid' suggestion. But why not start a thread tracking your progress? It would sure make interesting reading. MissBC and AH24 (among others) would have some insight no doubt.
> 
> ...


First off,thanks for taking the time to reply and yes i know i could well be setting myself up for long term issues hence the reasons for wishing to try and do something about it.

No disrespect to good physio's but over the years i have seen various physio's and rarely have any actually helped,maybe because most only know how to get you up and mobile but when it's pain from exercise very few specialise/manage to treat at this level? So most problems/injuries i have rested for a short period and then rehabilitated myself by working light and around the injury and working in.(if that makes sense).

I dont have any bands at all,i will obtain some bungee straps which should be ok?

I'll start these on Saturday after doing my heavy bench press(1RM).

I have thought about a journal but in all seriousness i think i am around my peak/plateau point and just simply cannot gain any more muscle but keep changing my training around to try and trigger something at least....when i manage 4plates per side i am going to start doing high intensity training(3-4sets with just 30secs rest between sets)and see what happens.

Ohh,yesterday i trained my shoulders which i did front presses(usually 100kg) but after 4 heavy sets i did behind the neck presses but used just 40kg because it has been a long time since i last did them but reckon i could do 60kg with ease but as i say,not taking chances by rushing.


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I'll try and explain....
> 
> Take a bungee chord and hold it down near the pelvic area with straight arms,keeping the arms straight as possible,raise over the head....keep going right over until the bungee reaches your lower back/bum.....and return,again with straight arms.
> 
> ...


 :scared:

straight ams?????Ha ha there's no way - I can barely get my arms behind my head - those tricep extensions with dumbbells are a physical impossibility for me!!! I think I need a stretching programme..... :confused1:


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Use a longer length so your arms are further outwards but as time goes by and you get better at it you move the hands closer together. :whistling:


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

Shoulder dislocates:






Best bet is to get some cheap 2m long 32mm PVC piping from homebase/b&q and use that.

I maybe wouldn't go as fast as the guy in the video, don't bend your elbows, this may mean holding it quite wide, as you improve you should be able to hold it narrower.

For extra fun try squatting with it overhead, or behind, you should be able to do it in any position as flexibility improves. This will lend itself to things like barbell snatches and overhead squats.


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## Lift (May 27, 2008)

hackskii said:


> This is an exercise that places the shoulder joint into the dislocation position and the range of motion puts unnecessary stress on the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulders.
> 
> If two exercises offer similar benefits and one is more of a risk for shoulder injury than the other why do the one that offers no added benefit and adds risk of injury?
> 
> ...


Reps! Nothing more need be said. It may in some peoples opinion be a good way to build on the posterior delt (regardless of the above) but if I have to work a slight bit harder to get balance through other exercises but while staying safe then im all for that....


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

gerg said:


> Shoulder dislocates:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rhis purely for flexibility or does it train the RC muscles also?


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

GTT said:


> Rhis purely for flexibility or does it train the RC muscles also?


I'm not sure, it's a dynamic stretch, but you definitely get a "burning sensation". I'd imagine the rotator cuff is used in it, as something has to move the weight, but i'm not an expert on physiology.

Gymnasts use this for flexibility, and people like swimmers should have a good ROM for this


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

gerg said:


> I'm not sure, it's a dynamic stretch, but you definitely get a "burning sensation". I'd imagine the rotator cuff is used in it, as something has to move the weight, but i'm not an expert on physiology.
> 
> Gymnasts use this for flexibility, and people like swimmers should have a good ROM for this


I was doing these to rehab my RC injury and was fine for a few weeks then got a really sharp pain in my shoulder from it-- took it 2 weeks of no training to recover so i figure somthing tore. thankfully it was the last day before i went on holiday so missing the gym for 2 weeks wasnt an issue.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

hackskii said:


> This is an exercise that places the shoulder joint into the dislocation position and the range of motion puts unnecessary stress on the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulders.
> 
> If two exercises offer similar benefits and one is more of a risk for shoulder injury than the other why do the one that offers no added benefit and adds risk of injury?
> 
> ...


Shoulders are not placed into the dislocate position, this was discussed a couple of pages ago.

Problems come from lack of flexibility - i.e. too much bench and not enough rear delt work, and not enough stretching. Heck even your lats being too tight could cause problems. Weak RCs are going to have problems at some stage which could be induced by most pressing movements.

What happens in people with that lack of flexibility, is to try and get the barbell behind the neck they push their necks forward, while the internal and external rotators are working against each other due to that lack of flexibility.

People die and get seriously injured running marathons. Last time I spoke to St John's Ambulance they just said they were dreading the overweight, middle aged male runners who are running as they have something to prove or some charity to fund.

Does this mean we should all stop doing cardio?


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

BLUE(UK) said:


> First off,thanks for taking the time to reply and yes i know i could well be setting myself up for long term issues hence the reasons for wishing to try and do something about it.
> 
> No disrespect to good physio's but over the years i have seen various physio's and rarely have any actually helped,maybe because most only know how to get you up and mobile but when it's pain from exercise very few specialise/manage to treat at this level? So most problems/injuries i have rested for a short period and then rehabilitated myself by working light and around the injury and working in.(if that makes sense).
> 
> ...


Blue - I'm in the same boat. I'm looking for a decent physio who can walk the walk and talk the talk. I'm trying to call in some favours from the rugby boys and get use of their team physio.

Bungee cord is fine mate.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bro, I totally agree with you.

Trust me, I totally agree with you.

I have had an injury due to this very same problem.........(too strong chest and front delt, and too weak rhomboid and rear delt).

Paul Booth has the best words on this one, and below is as follows.



Nine Pack said:


> Thought this thread had fizzled out. Anyway, a protracted shoulder girdle (girdle meaning the shoulder joint and the traps region) simply means the shoulders are drawn forwards & inwards giving the rounded upper back & 'primate like' stance (some call it I.L.S; imaginary lat syndrome).
> 
> This comes about when someone focuses mainly on training the 'mirror muscles', by that I mean the chest, bi's & shoulders (and to a certain extent the abs). This will make them proportionately stronger than the musculature of the back & traps region and as these are all postural muscles, the shoulder girdle will be pulled forward even at rest, this is called 'protraction'. The back musculature also becomes weakened & elongated.
> 
> ...


This makes more sense than anything...........

I suffer from this.


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## orange86 (Feb 17, 2008)

i've never worked on my back delts so my chest looks like it is going in and i have tits lol.

i now incorporate face pulls. i.e. barbell rows, but row it to your neck and squeeze your delts at the top of the movement.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

i dont know if thats you in the avatar,but seems to me you look like you got...ahem...ti*ts alright!!!

moving on swiftly,does that rowing to your chins actually do the rear delts?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The plane to hit the rear delt would mimic the bench press.

I have heard that even dead lifts will aid in shoulder integrity.

But, I do try to modify the angles to hit a larger range of back.

You can have a strong back and not interfere with shoulders, but if you have a strong chest, you will interfere with shoulders.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

think i'll have a go,but i do like the traditional dumbell rear delt exercise the most...and then machine ones after...but worth a shot,always like to have a change here n there every so often...cheers hackskii


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