# The Journey to low BF%



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Hey guys,

Recommended to start a journal from my previous thread I made. I asked how to achieve a 5-8% BF, now obviously quite hard to track to see what BF% you are but just something that looks outstanding is what I want.

I will keep track of this journal everydsy and post lifts, good, bad and everything to do with what I'm doing if anyone is curious. I am by no means massive, and do not want to be really. A nice athletic shape is by desired goal. Some of you may think I'm stupid for my choices I have made in the past. So I'll go into what I have tried quickly and explain.

*Drugs I have tried:*

Tren A

Test E

Test P

Test S

Winstrol oral and injectable

Anavar

Clen

GH

Mast P

Mast E

*Why? *

Well, to get into it, I was diagnosed by a UK doctor with low test. Always had very little facial hair, gyno from puberty no chest hair and have a problem with my pitutary gland. I was recommended to try and change up my life style as from the age of 21, I would come home buy a 4 pack of beer and play league of legends all day. At 23 of this life style for 2 years I decided a change needed to happen. I started TRT. Since I know I was on TRT for life and the chance of kids was taken away pre anabolic use I tried a lot. Which does not mean I completed a full cycle with any of the compounds listed above. I purely tried most for 4 weeks, then went back to trt or slightly over.

*Here is a before picture (23 I believe) *









As you can see, no working out no chest hair and slight gyno.

*Current cycle recommended by @sos2008 @DirtyWaffle*

2ui GH am and pm

40mg clen

40mg mast p

40mg test p

These are daily amounts.

*Current photos dated 2-3 days ago *















*Current stats:*

176.1 lbs starting weight today

175cm tall

25 years old

*Goal:*

To cut down as much body fat as possible, while maintaining the muscle I have. No idea on goal weight.

*Macros:*

230g protien

170g carbs

50g fat

Cheers guys


----------



## sos2008 (Feb 19, 2019)

Looking good mate :thumb what a transformation, cycle looks spot on for what your after. Enjoy.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

sos2008 said:


> Looking good mate :thumb what a transformation, cycle looks spot on for what your after. Enjoy.


 Thanks mate. Excited to see results!


----------



## DirtyWaffle (Apr 13, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Recommended to start a journal from my previous thread I made. I asked how to achieve a 5-8% BF, now obviously quite hard to track to see what BF% you are but just something that looks outstanding is what I want.
> 
> ...


 You'll be on the front cover of GQ magazine. Good luck mate and well done on the progress so far


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well, Heres an update with more things.

I try to have my GH 1 hour before eating and 1 hour after my last meal.

*My current diet:*

*Breakfast*

150ml egg whites

30g Whey Isolate

1 Bagel

1 Carrot

20g Dry Mango

20g Blueberries

1 Sugar free monster

*Meal 2*

220g 5% Beef Mince

100g White Rice

1 Red Pepper

*Meal 3*

190g Chicken Breast

100g Sweet Potato (I do burn it a little so probably loses some calories)

*Snack when home*

20g 85% Dark Chocolate

1 Rice Cake

*Meal 4*

190g Chicken Breast

100g Sweet Potato

OR

Smoked Salmon fillet

150g various veggies

*Snack before gym*

1 Rice cake with 20g Raspberry Jam

Preworkout

*Meal after gym*

200g 0% Greek Yogurt

60g Raisins

1 Rice cake

30g Whey Isolate

100ml Orange Juice

*How I'm feeling*

Feeling quite rough currently, I believe it's the clen as making my workouts not as strong, quite shaky and head feels...Blood pressurey...Hoping it'll die down and if not I'll drop the clen.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

There is no need to be fasted for an hour when using exogenous hgh.

The only exception being if you are trying to best utilize the enhanced lipolysis which would require 4hrs of fasting post shot to get the full effect.

1hr is pointless for any reason pertaining to exogenous hgh and enhanced ffa release.


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

@Felix11 Have you finished the journey to get to low body fat or have you just started? I'm confused. You're fu**ing shredded already. You've made some serious gains. You wanna get even leaner than you are now?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> @Felix11 Have you finished the journey to get to low body fat or have you just started? I'm confused. You're fu**ing shredded already. You've made some serious gains. You wanna get even leaner than you are now?


 Haha that's very kind. I'd estimate I'm 12% currently, really do want to be lower


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Haha that's very kind. I'd estimate I'm 12% currently, really do want to be lower


 I'd say sub 10% but what do I know lol. You played league of legends so I assume you played WoW too? I used to love that game


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> I'd say sub 10% but what do I know lol. You played league of legends so I assume you played WoW too? I used to love that game


 Well, The machine at the gym gives me a reading of 10.6% but I always take that with a pinch of salt, Somedays I'm 12% on it, Somedays it says 6% lol. But on average 10% ish. Just depends on time of day, what I've eaten etc etc....

I weirdly never got into WoW, I was very into RuneScape and League though, Got challenger on league, I know....Nerd lol. And spend my entire childhood on RuneScape


----------



## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

Great nic, well done.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Philfg said:


> Great nic, well done.


 Thank you mate


----------



## TRT (Nov 19, 2015)

you're looking quality mate, will keep tuned into this journey of yours.



Felix11 said:


> I weirdly never got into WoW, I was very into RuneScape and League though, Got challenger on league, I know....Nerd lol. And spend my entire childhood on RuneScape


 do you also spend time wandering how different your life would have been if runescape never existed? it fu**ing consumed my childhood and also more of my adulthood than i'd like to admit lol.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

TRT said:


> you're looking quality mate, will keep tuned into this journey of yours.
> 
> do you also spend time wandering how different your life would have been if runescape never existed? it fu**ing consumed my childhood and also more of my adulthood than i'd like to admit lol.


 Cheers mate!

Haha I think that everyday if I'm honest. What different friends I've got, what I'd look like, my personality..... Spent far too long on that game


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers mate!
> 
> Haha I think that everyday if I'm honest. What different friends I've got, what I'd look like, my personality..... Spent far too long on that game


 @TRT @Felix11 I used to feel the same about WoW & cod but I guess we had fun in the moment and looking back and thinking what if or regretting isn't something you should dwell upon. If it wasn't for league, maybe you wouldn't have started a transformation or working out! :thumbup1:


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> @TRT @Felix11 I used to feel the same about WoW & cod but I guess we had fun in the moment and looking back and thinking what if or regretting isn't something you should dwell upon. If it wasn't for league, maybe you wouldn't have started a transformation or working out! :thumbup1:


 Is also a very true comment. I had fun and do not regret my friends by any stretch and I could of not started working out and taking drugs, Who knows haha. My only regret as such is my social interaction, I feel I'm very... Awkward with friends and I do put that down to my years of gaming


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Update:

Daily calories I have most days I won't update every day as won't change too much but here's a general day, this is 2200 calories and macros to follow.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Woke today at 6am, GH shot soon as wake, I give it an hour before I take the clen, So will have that at 7am, Then eat.

It's a slight gain of 1.5lbs since a few days ago, Granted I had a little cheat meal over weekend on the friday.

Busy day today and going gym. Debating on dropping my bagel in the morning which is 300 calories and 50g of carbs. But I do love it....

Weight today - 177.5


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

*1 week update picture:*









Weight in morning - 176.6lbs

Im fluctuating everyday due to last time meal eaten and time of weighing myself, if I'm losing a lb a week I'm happy. Hoping by Friday or Saturday I'll be in 175 terratory.

My meal prep for every working day -









And lastly working day macros and calories -


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> *1 week update picture:*
> 
> View attachment 199371


 Looking good my man. What's the plan after the cut? You gonna do a couple months maintaining and then bulk?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> Looking good my man. What's the plan after the cut? You gonna do a couple months maintaining and then bulk?


 Cheers mate. I'm not too sure to be honest. I just want to see how I'd look weighing roughly 168-170lbs. From there a very lean bulk aiming at a lbs a week going to 200lbs.


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers mate. I'm not too sure to be honest. I just want to see how I'd look weighing roughly 168-170lbs. From there a very lean bulk aiming at a lbs a week going to 200lbs.


 Sounds good mate :thumbup1:


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well,

The 175 territory came quicker than expected. Woke up today at 175.5lbs. I've used a pretty nifty tdee calculator that says, If I hold onto current muscle, At 168lbs I'll be 5% BF, This is only rough though. So that's the aim. 168lbs.


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Well,
> 
> The 175 territory came quicker than expected. Woke up today at 175.5lbs. I've used a pretty nifty tdee calculator that says, If I hold onto current muscle, At 168lbs I'll be 5% BF, This is only rough though. So that's the aim. 168lbs.


 2lbs in 2 days. That's some rapid weight loss especially as you're so lean. :thumbup1:

How's the clen? I've never used it personally


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> 2lbs in 2 days. That's some rapid weight loss especially as you're so lean. :thumbup1:
> 
> How's the clen? I've never used it personally


 I'm a bit worried it's a bit too fast of a loss. I'm going to monitor it for the next 2 days and up calories if needed. Need more fat in diet so I know where to find the extra calories 

As far as the clen, This is the.....3rd time I've tried and used. And every single time, Horrible. You feel fine when just doing normal day to day stuff, But when it comes to writing, Doing something precise (Pinning) You're shaking like a mofo. Also makes me feel slightly light headed. It's not a nice feeling at all. Oh and let's not forget the rapid heart rate of 90+. I wouldn't recommend haha. I'm debating coming off it and maybe trying var or winstrol as have them on tap.


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> I'm a bit worried it's a bit too fast of a loss. I'm going to monitor it for the next 2 days and up calories if needed. Need more fat in diet so I know where to find the extra calories
> 
> As far as the clen, This is the.....3rd time I've tried and used. And every single time, Horrible. You feel fine when just doing normal day to day stuff, But when it comes to writing, Doing something precise (Pinning) You're shaking like a mofo. Also makes me feel slightly light headed. It's not a nice feeling at all. Oh and let's not forget the rapid heart rate of 90+. I wouldn't recommend haha. I'm debating coming off it and maybe trying var or winstrol as have them on tap.


 You still maintaining your strength on the cut? That's where i'd gauge if the weight loss is too quick.

And yeah that doesn't sound good. Obviously working tho :lol:


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> You still maintaining your strength on the cut? That's where i'd gauge if the weight loss is too quick.
> 
> And yeah that doesn't sound good. Obviously working tho :lol:


 Yeah strength is going well.

Can do 100kg for 10 on the bench with ease. Managed 120kg for 4 (Could've done more but did a lot of sets before) Then attempted a 140kg 1RM and failed

But the 120kg was new territory for me as I usually don't go heavy, Just more reps lighter weight mostly.

Can bent over row 100kg for 10 easily also, Would go heavier but my hands can't hold the weight (Need straps)


----------



## Uptonogood (Feb 23, 2021)

fu**ing hell man. Top work - you're like a pharmacists guinea pig but man its paying off for you. Top stuff!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Uptonogood said:


> fu**ing hell man. Top work - you're like a pharmacists guinea pig but man its paying off for you. Top stuff!


 Thank you mate!

I know haha, I have defo tried a lot but due to everything I listed in my first post, I thought why the hell not, Most of the things people worry about when taking AAS, Already happened to me pre AAS use....Well not all, Still hope my kidneys/liver/heart is okay haha.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Work up today with a weight of: 174.4lbs

As I say will monitor over few days and decide to maybe up calories some more.

Heres a picture of daily supplements taken:









LivPro - Following daily guidelines on box

Zinc - Following daily guidelines on box

Omega 3 - Following daily guidelines on box

L Carintine - Following daily guidelines on box

KidneyPro - Following daily guidelines on box

Garlic oil capsule - Following daily guidelines on box

Vitamin d3 - 5000ui daily

Whey Hydro Platinum - 1 scoop AM, 1 scoop after workout


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

*Weight log from past week:*

22/04: 176.1lbs

23/04: Unknown

24/04: 177.5lbs

25/04: 176.5lbs

26/04: 175.4lbs

27/04: 174.4lbs

28/04: 173.9lbs

I'd say its steady, aiming for 1-1.5lbs lost per week, Which I've hit almost bang on. Going to up the calories slightly by adding in some walnuts.

This Saturday going to have a pizza with the girlfriend, I've said I'll only have it if we cycle there (3 hours cycling in total) So should burn it off.


----------



## 127071 (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> I'd say its steady, aiming for 1-1.5lbs lost per week, Which I've hit almost bang on. Going to up the calories slightly by adding in some walnuts.
> 
> This Saturday going to have a pizza with the girlfriend, I've said I'll only have it if we cycle there (3 hours cycling in total) So should burn it off.


 Walnut pizza?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

jimmydeen said:


> Walnut pizza?


 Sounds even worse than pineapple pizza


----------



## DirtyWaffle (Apr 13, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> *Weight log from past week:*
> 
> 22/04: 176.1lbs
> 
> ...


 Looks like it's on point mate. Get some pictures up to compare in a few weeks.


----------



## DirtyWaffle (Apr 13, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Work up today with a weight of: 174.4lbs
> 
> As I say will monitor over few days and decide to maybe up calories some more.
> 
> ...


 Be careful with nuts and the fish oil.


----------



## DirtyWaffle (Apr 13, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Work up today with a weight of: 174.4lbs
> 
> As I say will monitor over few days and decide to maybe up calories some more.
> 
> ...


 Be careful with nuts and the fish oil.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

DirtyWaffle said:


> Looks like it's on point mate. Get some pictures up to compare in a few weeks.


 Cheers mate, I've taken on a PT, With help with diet and training to help me get to my desired goal. So eating a bit more than I was, Roughly 240p/240c/40f on training days and slightly less on rest days. I was dropping weight quiet fast so defo more calories needed. Feeling very full on current diet but that is down to consuming spinach in my spare time haha.



DirtyWaffle said:


> Be careful with nuts and the fish oil.


 Is it bad to mix?


----------



## DirtyWaffle (Apr 13, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers mate, I've taken on a PT, With help with diet and training to help me get to my desired goal. So eating a bit more than I was, Roughly 240p/240c/40f on training days and slightly less on rest days. I was dropping weight quiet fast so defo more calories needed. Feeling very full on current diet but that is down to consuming spinach in my spare time haha.
> 
> Is it bad to mix?


 Easy to over do the fats mate. I've just had a cheat meal...two pizzas :lol: I probably burnt 1500kcals training earlier though.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well here's a weekly update-

*Weight going through the week-*

29/04 - 174.2lbs

30/04 - 175lbs

01/05 - Unknown (Day after cheat)

02/05 - Unknown

03/05 - 175lbs when waking - 174.2lbs after fastest cardio

*Plan - *

The reason some of the days are unknown is because I've taken on a "Coach" as such to help me to my desired goal, And was recommended to have a cheat over weekend which I had on the Friday I believe. I've also been told to eat around 50g more carbs than I have been eating and to mix in lots of spinach and leafs in my leisure which does make me and I'm sure all quite bloated.

I'm really happy with the plan so far, It involves almost 90% more cardio than I have been doing. Currently waking up around 6-6:30am, I live in a block of flats so my fastest cardio is running up and down the stairs for 20 mins. Nice and local and a good form of cardio if you ask me. Have clen before the fastest cardio and black coffee, Which I absolutely hate but still have as it does help with my appetite when I still and craving to eat as soon as I'm up. I'm trying to eat every 2-3hr with a good amount of protien and carbs per meal. And then more cardio after gym on the treadmill.

Looking forward for the coming weeks to come!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Bloods being done tonmorrow from medichecks, thanks to their discount yesterday.

Woke up today 174.4lbs.

Doing morning cardio fastest and cardio at gym also.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Bloods sent off yesterday and hoping to get results today.

Very curious on e2, shbg and prolactin.

In regards with my new coach he has started me on other compounds and dropping some.

I won't go into detail currently but feeling good, some shots I took today with some poor lighting.

Weights this week -

Monday: unknown

Tuesday: 174.8

Wednesday: 174

Thursday: 172.4

Friday: 173.3


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well, No bloods today 

Tomorrow I hope....(If medichecks does them on Saturday, If anyone knows)


----------



## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Felix11 said:


> Well, No bloods today
> 
> Tomorrow I hope....(If medichecks does them on Saturday, If anyone knows)


 They don't . Usually a 3 day turn around not including weekends . When do you send it off


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

gymaddict1986 said:


> They don't . Usually a 3 day turn around not including weekends . When do you send it off


 Thursday 8am gmt in priority box


----------



## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Felix11 said:


> Thursday 8am gmt in priority box


 Should get Tuesday the latest mate .


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Right,

Bloods back in and the ones I wanted to know they are unable to test for some reason??? Prolactin, e2, test. Shbg is a all point low of 6 lol.

172lbs when waking this morning which is great.

To add onto that, 2 consecutive days had a person come up to me and tell me I look great which is always nice to hear.


----------



## TIXED (Feb 17, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Right,
> 
> Bloods back in and the ones I wanted to know they are unable to test for some reason??? Prolactin, e2, test. Shbg is a all point low of 6 lol.
> 
> ...


 What training program have you used during this 2 year transformation?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

TIXED said:


> What training program have you used during this 2 year transformation?


 Just my own mate. Recently taken someone on though for ped/training and nutrition


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well guys,

Another week another update:

Check in with the coach went as follows -

Monday: 172.2

Tuesday: 172.4

Wednesday: 170.9

Thursday: 170.4

Friday: 170.2

Weight going down and picture is not in best lighting but is nice to refer back too


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

170.4 today aswell

Rubbish gym session yesterday felt very weak.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Update for you all -

Weight has seemed to stalled @ 170, I've been between 170.9 from Saturday and woke up today 170.9

So from today carbs are dropping, Cardio up and slight change to PED use.

Was on - 240c, 240p, 40f

Now on - 190c, 240p, 40f

These are training days macros

Cardio also up from 20 mins fasted and 15 mins after workout to 25 mins fastest and 25 mins after workout.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Hey guys,

Another update wirh some more detail. Had a big blow out last weekend on a cheat, felt horrible mentally and physically till about Tuesday this week.

Current weight changes from following week.

Friday 169.5
Saturday (day after cheat) 175
Sunday (another day after fml) 180
Monday (clean again) 175.9
Tuesday 171.6
Wednesday 168.2
Thursday 167.8
Friday 168.4

As you can see bloated up massively but have managed to lose it all going straight back to meal plan and not fasting myself or going less on calories. Even though carbs have dropped slightly couple weeks back.

Here is a picture I took 20 min ago upon waking up









I guess it's time to say the current cycle.

2ui gh am fasted

2ui gh before workout

50mg Tren A EOD

50mg Mast P EOD

50mg Test P EOD

120mg clen daily

Soon in a week or so clen will be dropped and gh will go up by 0.5 am and before workout. All cardio dropped also and adding 20mg superdrol and a bit more carbs

Cheers guys


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Another update:

Slightly late. Broke up with the girlfriend couple days ago, No sad story on my part, Felt nothing for her and am glad it's over. Only thing is currently still living with her and it is horrible. HORRIBLE.

Aside from that, Cycle has changed slightly, Added in the superdrol, And bloods came back - As shown









Test is very low, e2 is probably from the tren, Prolactin kinda annoyed they couldnt test it....SHBG...Good and bad, More free test but test levels are stupid low (Have switched to a different brand now)

I am on about 50mg tren test and mast weekly along with 20mg superdrol daily

Picture of me today waking -


----------



## Trav (Jun 1, 2021)

Amazing progress and weight coming down incredibly quick. Not my kind of supplements but fully understand the same dedication is required regardless and you are smashing it man. Hope things get easier with the ex mrs!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Cycle got cut short due to insane cramps in legs for some reason running the drol, No idea what B/F% we are. But happy with how I'm looking.
Any guesses would be great, I'd say....9%? Me this morning soon as waking


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well,

A new chapter. I've stopped everything apart from TRT which I needed before even starting using other compounds.

My lowest weight was 162lbs, Felt horrible, No strength and severe fatigue in everyway shape and form. Diet was so strict and just kinda miserable.

I've taken a picture this morning, at 188lbs, Thats 26lbs up, much stronger, feeling amazing, purely TRT dose and living life fully, drinking occassionally, having a cheat meal (HEAVY) cheat meal once a week and still sticking to a fairly strict 2800 calorie diet daily, 250p, 300c, 50f roughly.

Plan is to maintain this while adding on some size, still have good abs, good veins everywhere just picture is not best lighting, Would you guys try push up to 190lbs? I'm 5'9 in height and 26 years old


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

I had already read your Journal a while ago. Got in excellent shape. You certainly aren't out of shape now. Staying the way you are now will be healthier and you are happier. 190lbs would make you 13.5 stone, it's not over the top for your height, but I'll leave it to you. Welcome back to the Members Journals..


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Hey Brian, cheers for the post! 

Yeah I'd say the aim is to lean gain to 190 and hover around there, I mean I'm never going to compete so there was no need for me to cut down so low before


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Sounds good. I was going to say you should have done a comp while in the condition you got yourself in, but left it out. Keep posting your progress!


----------



## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

I wouldn’t worry about a specific number like 190 for example however I would eat above maintenance and continue to grow until your thinking it’s time to reign it in and cut a bit for a while. Still lean so no need for a cut yet could lean bulk for another 6 weeks


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Cheers for the reply Tricky,

I'm really enjoying being slightly bigger, and honestly not just saying that to try and convince myself. Just eaten a pretty heavy cheat, 8 filled nutella Krispy Donuts, and a Maccies, Totally up todays cals at 7500...I do feel rubbish mentally as will be 3 days till weight stabilizes. 

I need to sort the mentality sides out as I do feel a big let down everytime I eat bad...Like I've let myself down. I know I'll never compete due to pretty bad acne scarring....I know my shirt rarely comes off due to the acne too. Will update weight tomorrow, from today I was 186lbs bang on.


----------



## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers for the reply Tricky,
> 
> I'm really enjoying being slightly bigger, and honestly not just saying that to try and convince myself. Just eaten a pretty heavy cheat, 8 filled nutella Krispy Donuts, and a Maccies, Totally up todays cals at 7500...I do feel rubbish mentally as will be 3 days till weight stabilizes.
> 
> I need to sort the mentality sides out as I do feel a big let down everytime I eat bad...Like I've let myself down. I know I'll never compete due to pretty bad acne scarring....I know my shirt rarely comes off due to the acne too. Will update weight tomorrow, from today I was 186lbs bang on.


Just make sure to hit the protein needed and do cardio for heart health


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Take note of Tricky he is experienced. Try and give up the cheat meals too. You are still in great condition, I am not going to say do this do that, as you know what you need to do!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well,

The body is pretty crazy, was 195lbs day of eating rubbish, Monday morning was 189lbs and today I'm back and stable at 186lbs, I didn't miss a meal like some do, just an SUPER off day eating about 10k cals, very acidy and gassy on Monday but is expected. Feel like normal today.

Diet consists of this and doesn't change apart from Monday and Friday where I swap the mince out for salmon

Meal 1:
50g Oats
2 whole eggs
250g egg whites

Meal 2:
60g red pepper
60g uncooked jasmine rice
220g 5% beef mince
Brocoli

Meal 3:
60g red pepper
60g uncooked jasmine rice
130g cooked chicken breast
Brocoli

Meal 4:
Same as meal 3

Meal 5:
70g cream of rice
50g Per4m whey
Mixed frozen fruit

Meal 6:
400g Greek yogurt
1 slice of protien cake I make
Mixed fruit
10g 90% Dark chocolate

Is a very fast digesting diet, only complex carbs in this diet is my meal 1, wondering if I should change the rice out of meal 2 or 3 for complex carbs like brown rice or sweet potato


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> I need to sort the mentality sides out as I do feel a big let down everytime I eat bad...Like I've let myself down. I know I'll never compete due to pretty bad acne scarring....I know my shirt rarely comes off due to the acne too. Will update weight tomorrow, from today I was 186lbs bang on.


I think we are all the same with eating bad, I don't feel a big let down, but I know I shouldn't have done it and it is on my mind. I would not bother about the acne scarring, what after all that effort to get that muscular frame, my shirt would be off, as the old saying goes, if you've got it - flaunt it!! 💪😋 I'm not over the top with it either. The sun may do your skin good! I'll investigate acne scarring and if there are ways to improve it, I'll get back to you.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Brian Multigym said:


> I think we are all the same with eating bad, I don't feel a big let down, but I know I shouldn't have done it and it is on my mind. I would not bother about the acne scarring, what after all that effort to get that muscular frame, my shirt would be off, as the old saying goes, if you've got it - flaunt it!! 💪😋 I'm not over the top with it either. The sun may do your skin good! I'll investigate acne scarring and if there are ways to improve it, I'll get back to you.


Cheers mate that's very kind, 

Yeah I think it's the fact of the eating 12 Krispy Kreme doughnuts within 30 mins that I feel terrible about haha


----------



## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

Looking good.


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

*Acne Scarring.*

Did some investigating mate. There are creams and then there are surgical procedures. For the surgical procedures you may have to go privately, as the NHS normally don't do it, unless the acne scarring is affecting your life and mental health. Do further reading please, if you are interested in any of the procedures below.

*What you can do yourself*

Suncream - Suncream can help limit the contrast between unscarred skin and a scar. In addition, always use suncream when stripped off, as the sun can darken acne scars more than normal skin.

Lactic Acid - Lactic Acid peels done every two weeks for three months improves the appearance of the skin and lightens acne scars. Buy products containing Lactic Acid. Also try diluted apple cider vinegar over the affected skin as it contains Lactic Acid.

Retinoids - Topical retinoids are another acne scar treatment with scar smoothing benefits. It speeds up your skin cell regeneration and reduces colouration of the scars.

Chemical Peels - Involves using strong acids to remove the outer layer of the skin and reduce the appearance of scars. Buy Salicylic Acid containing peels. A doctor will used stronger acids but this is a procedure that should be listed below.

Other Creams - Some medicated creams, such as those containing Azelaic Acid or Hydroxyl Acids will help.

*Surgical Procedures*

Skin Needling - your doctor rolls a needle studded device over the skin to stimulate Collagen formation (Collagen is a protein in skin) in the underlying tissue, which helps repair the damage from scarring and improves appearance. It is safe, simple and an effective technique for acne scarring.

Dermabrasion - This procedure is usually reserved for more severe scarring. Your doctor removes the top layer of skin with a rapidly rotating brush. Surface skin may be completely removed and deeper acne scars will appear less noticeable. There will be a healing process. Your skin will look red and sore for months as it heals.

Laser Resurfacing - This approach is increasingly popular. Lasers are used to stimulate the growth of new Collagen (Collagen is a protein in skin), which helps repair some of the damage caused by scarring and improves the appearance. Faster healing time with this procedure. The treated area will need bandaging. Often progressed after Demabrasion above.

Energy Based Procedures - Pulsed Light Sources and Radio Frequency devices help make scars less noticeable without damaging the outer layer of the skin. Tightens skin too. May need repeating.

This listing above is not fully complete, but I have described the main procedures to treat acne scarring to remove it or make the scarring less noticeable.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Thanks for the info Brain,

I do sunbed every weekend to try and get the colour to somewhat match, Also just enjoy it haha. 

I've considered laser but the cost is extreme unless NHS would do it, But I'm unsure as I've kind of done it to myself. Will give a google on dermabrasion as that sounds pretty good.

Thanks again!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well, 

Eating 2800 daily and weight is dropping I'd say by a lb a week looking at scales, so safe to say I'm roughly in a 500 deficit which I'm super happy about, love being able to eat loads. 

Currently just trying to maintain while shed a bit of fat while constantly getting stronger. Might up calories to 3100, which all that means is more cream of rice in meal 5, which I looooove. 










That's the scale weights this week currently, happy to say that the loss is pretty bang on. Bar Monday where it was a bit iffy after that cheat. 









And picture of body just after waking.


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Looking good mate, didn't need to be as light as you got previously!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

184 bang on today. 

Going out for a meal tonight, which I know will involve pie and cheese cake, and tomorrow heavy drinking session I expect due to friends birthday, will try and stay off beer and stick to diet coke and vodka. Will update weights over coming days and see what's happening


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

And don't start feeling down after it, you have to have some enjoyment...👍 Get a steak pie and sprinkle Protein powder on the cheese cake.... 😋


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Well,

Stuck it out quite well light last night, chicken salad, slice of pizza, 1 large peroni and then just into the diet cokes and vodkas, Friday night cheese cake and pie, fighting the temptation to have a binge tonight currently, but weight is shown below.

I'm sure regardless due to stopping eating at around 7pm yesterday is why I'm much lighter and will jump up tomorrow as eaten as normally today..


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Well done after that weekend!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Currently roughly losing a 1b a week with my heavy sugary cheat meal once a week usually at night on a Sunday or Monday, Currently fighting temptation with all the chocolate eggs in house...

But woke up today at 183.2
Currently eating 2800 a day, Working out 6 times a week and walking on average 10k steps a day. Happy with food and weight loss, I've kinda worked out that my calories could be too low? If I'm losing a 1b a week with my heavy cheat currently which equates to about 7k calories on that given day, I could spread out that extra 4k calories in my diet so maybe I wouldn't feel the need to cheat? I know that my weight sky rockets for the next couple of days with all the sodium etc, But if I were to eat 3400 a day maybe I could maybe.....stop this cheat and be satisfied, I just really can't stop the cravings sometimes and think Fk it, I'm not a pro just live life, But in realiality I'm by myself watching youtube binge eating haha.

Weight scales for anyone curious


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

I’d prefer the higher daily calorie intake personally. I used to diet like you’re doing now with 6 restrictive days and one day where I ate like an absolute pig but I realised I was behaving like I had some kind of eating disorder. Stuffing my face to the point where I felt sick etc. I doubt you’ll be training/sleeping optimally on the chest day or the day after if you’re eating an additional 4,000 calories of sugary junk.


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

You are doing well mate, don't knock yourself! You stick to your plan and we can see that with the photos. It's funny as I don't do the cheat meals, I would rather have a M&S sandwich than a McDonalds...


----------



## knuckleheed2 (Dec 1, 2019)

Felix11 said:


> Thanks for the info Brain,
> 
> I do sunbed every weekend to try and get the colour to somewhat match, Also just enjoy it haha.
> 
> ...


Have a look into retinol creams which are supposed to be helpful with acne scarring. You can buy it relatively cheaply from Indian pharmas. Sunbed will also tone the scarring down.

Suffered really badly with facial acne in my late teens / early 20s and know it ain't any fun. Roaccutane was the thing that finally cured it and a cloud was lifted. I can say that it does fade over time.

In a strange way, I've grown to like my scarring over the years....I tell myself if it gives my coupon a bit of character lol.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Cheers Knuckle, I'm really worried to try accutane though just due to the sides. I have been sunbedding every week though apart from last week due to easter.

Well, yesterdays night sleep was pretty rough, honestly could not stop thinking to get a deliveroo and have some chocolate....Like my god it was unreal, I resisted though and woke up feeling super good haha. Weight today on scales - 181.4lbs

Going to up calories as @DLTBB has recommended as I think I'm allowed to go to around 3400 and maintain, and hope an extra meal or more carbs in all meals will help. Current diet looks like this in terms of macros, 310c, 280p, 50f

Could maybe up the healthy fats to keep me more satiated but I honestly enjoy bigger portions so maybe carbs might help?

Cheers guys


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers Knuckle, I'm really worried to try accutane though just due to the sides. I have been sunbedding every week though apart from last week due to easter.
> 
> Well, yesterdays night sleep was pretty rough, honestly could not stop thinking to get a deliveroo and have some chocolate....Like my god it was unreal, I resisted though and woke up feeling super good haha. Weight today on scales - 181.4lbs
> 
> ...


Just up the volume of the meals by bulking them out with veggies and salad etc. Greg Doucette has some good low calorie sweet recipes that are satiating and will satisfy your sweet tooth. Might be worth looking at. But to be able to get lean on 3,000 calories is lucky anyway, many people have to drop far lower.


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Brian Multigym said:


> You are doing well mate, don't knock yourself! You stick to your plan and we can see that with the photos. It's funny as I don't do the cheat meals, I would rather have a M&S sandwich than a McDonalds...


M and s you posh fooker


----------



## knuckleheed2 (Dec 1, 2019)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers Knuckle, I'm really worried to try accutane though just due to the sides. I have been sunbedding every week though apart from last week due to easter.
> 
> Well, yesterdays night sleep was pretty rough, honestly could not stop thinking to get a deliveroo and have some chocolate....Like my god it was unreal, I resisted though and woke up feeling super good haha. Weight today on scales - 181.4lbs
> 
> ...


Without being overly dramatic which I am definitely not......I can tell you that Accutane changed my life for the better in so many ways. The only sides I suffered were dry mouth and nose with some bleeding. The upside was life changing.

If you thought that every person that took a certain drug would suffer every known complication as listed then you wouldn't take anything. Have a look at the insert in a packet of paracetamol.

Each to their own but I would not be suffering such a miserable ailment when a known treatment which has been available for over 30 years is available. Your choice bud, none of us are getting out of here alive btw


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

knuckleheed2 said:


> Without being overly dramatic which I am definitely not......I can tell you that Accutane changed my life for the better in so many ways. The only sides I suffered were dry mouth and nose with some bleeding. The upside was life changing.
> 
> If you thought that every person that took a certain drug would suffer every known complication as listed then you wouldn't take anything. Have a look at the insert in a packet of paracetamol.
> 
> Each to their own but I would not be suffering such a miserable ailment when a known treatment which has been available for over 30 years is available. Your choice bud, none of us are getting out of here alive btw


What does did you take and how long did you run it? Do you keep taking it to stop flair ups or did your 1 course sort you out? I've been reluctant to take accutane because I only get acne on my back but still tempted because it can get quite bad


----------



## knuckleheed2 (Dec 1, 2019)

PaulNe said:


> What does did you take and how long did you run it? Do you keep taking it to stop flair ups or did your 1 course sort you out? I've been reluctant to take accutane because I only get acne on my back but still tempted because it can get quite bad


I'm 50 this year bud. Think I was around 22'ish at the time. I had suffered bad facial and back (particularly painful) acne since I was about 16. The docs had pumped me full of all sorts of antibiotics for about 6 years which had little effect, all the while as my scarring accumulated and self confidence & mental health plummeted. I still believe the years of antibiotic abuse prescribed by the quacks contributed to my gut issues that continue to this day.

At the time, I think my dose was around 80mg per day for 3 months with bloods taken at start, midway and end with nothing untoward showing up on bloods. One course pretty much put paid to my acne and years of mental turmoil. I will therefore always advocate it's use as the alternative is far more harmful based on my own experience. Btw, I think the latest medical advice is to go with a lower dose for a longer period (6 months I believe).

My own teenage started to get bad acne just over 2 years ago. After being messed about by the gp for about 6 months. It was getting to the point that scarring was inevitable so I took matters into my own hand and self prescribed using Indian pharmacy from source. The upshot is a happy, confident, cheeky 16 year old who is flourishing without any acne. 

Btw, I'm not advocating it's use for those with the odd outbreak of a few pimples, just those with persistent significant acne that will not shift with anything. You'll know who you are if you are experiencing it bad.

Apologies for derailing thread but it is something I feel strongly about. I'll say no more to allow thread to get back in track.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Cheers for all replies guys 

Woke up today also at 181.4 slightly upping calories gradually to find that super sweet spot! 

I've also really debated accutane and most likely will start it, but most of mine is now scarring, I don't break out a lot now it's just all scars down my back and way too self conscious to post it on here. 

Also chucked away all the chocolate in the house, felt quite bad as was gifts but knowing its there kick starts everything and it just purely is not worth it! 

Here's a picture I took yesterday after 2000 calories into my day after work. Leanish, I'd say around 11%bf?


----------



## knuckleheed2 (Dec 1, 2019)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers for all replies guys
> 
> Woke up today also at 181.4 slightly upping calories gradually to find that super sweet spot!
> 
> ...


Looking good bud. I'd recommend trying some sunbed sessions and building up a tan. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the positive visual impact on the scarring. That should then build your confidence to take your top off in the sunny weather. Sun's oot, guns oot 💪


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Look good mate, as Knuckleheed has said, get the sun on your back, like I posted suncream can hide the scars somewhat, you have put a lot of effort into that muscular frame - sun's oot, guns oot!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Cheers all,

I do sunbed currently, 10 mins a week usually on the weekend, Couldn't go last week but back on it now.

Woke up today at 180.4, Thats the goal. I want to stay around 180 and maintain as I believe this is the best of all world in terms of eating, strength, general look also.


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

👍 Well done!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

24/04/16
I've decided to have a cheat meal once a month, nothing drastic and had a cheeky one on this date, Woke up today 185.6 which I'm not too fussed about at all as the weight I want to be around is 180-185 I've deicded, Obviously want to be heavier over time but I think this is my sweet spot with my current mass currently. 
I've also done bloods with medichecks which will be sent off and should hopefully have the results wednesday. ALSO started roaccutane, Little nervous but just had my 2nd pill this morning and hoping for the best


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> 24/04/16
> I've decided to have a cheat meal once a month, nothing drastic and had a cheeky one on this date, Woke up today 185.6 which I'm not too fussed about at all as the weight I want to be around is 180-185 I've deicded, Obviously want to be heavier over time but I think this is my sweet spot with my current mass currently.
> I've also done bloods with medichecks which will be sent off and should hopefully have the results wednesday. ALSO started roaccutane, Little nervous but just had my 2nd pill this morning and hoping for the best


Why only once a month? Do you mind if I ask what the reason is behind wanting to be at such low bodyfat year round? 

It's almost like you're punishing yourself for no reason. Like a competitive bodybuilder cutting down for a show that's never happening. I'd say the real war is going on in your head lad. 

Competing brings scarcity, which is why most want to give up. You're doing it to yourself without an ultimate end goal in mind, other than maintaining an arbitrary figure you've landed on. I'm all for constantly pushing the boundaries for fun, out of passion, but not at the expense of personal happiness and wellbeing.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Pegasus said:


> Why only once a month? Do you mind if I ask what the reason is behind wanting to be at such low bodyfat year round?
> 
> It's almost like you're punishing yourself for no reason. Like a competitive bodybuilder cutting down for a show that's never happening. I'd say the real war is going on in your head lad.
> 
> Competing brings scarcity, which is why most want to give up. You're doing it to yourself without an ultimate end goal in mind, other than maintaining an arbitrary figure you've landed on. I'm all for constantly pushing the boundaries for fun, out of passion, but not at the expense of personal happiness and wellbeing.


Hey mate

I can't really answer that apart from confidence, without starting the whole spiel with my life I've always been lacking confidence in terms of my physique, even when I was super low bf, not happy even though I would say I was, even now I'm like I want to be more shredded. I see it as a goal really, set my mind to it and achieve it, always been very goal driven even back in my gaming days with runescape and league, wanted 99 in runescape, got it, wanted challenger in league, got it, just keeps me motivated I guess


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Felix11 said:


> Hey mate
> 
> I can't really answer that apart from confidence, without starting the whole spiel with my life I've always been lacking confidence in terms of my physique, even when I was super low bf, not happy even though I would say I was, even now I'm like I want to be more shredded. I see it as a goal really, set my mind to it and achieve it, always been very goal driven even back in my gaming days with runescape and league, wanted 99 in runescape, got it, wanted challenger in league, got it, just keeps me motivated I guess


So many people who end up using gear seem to start out on MMO's in their younger days. I was the same. Maxed a couple of accounts on Runescape. It's like the dopamine we get from levelling up and developing our characters in games transfers over to doing it in real life with progressing our physiques and strength.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> Hey mate
> 
> I can't really answer that apart from confidence, without starting the whole spiel with my life I've always been lacking confidence in terms of my physique, even when *I was super low bf, not happy even though I would say I was*, even now I'm like I want to be more shredded. I see it as a goal really, set my mind to it and achieve it, always been very goal driven even back in my gaming days with runescape and league, wanted 99 in runescape, got it, wanted challenger in league, got it, just keeps me motivated I guess


It sounds like there's a deeper issue to resolve, and I say this as a stranger who is looking at things from a totally objective perspective. You achieved being shredded but you still lacked that confidence. What do you think it'll take to get that confidence? If you achieved all your goals, would you have it? I would say that it's a mindset, and it starts with not giving a shit what other people think. 



DLTBB said:


> So many people who end up using gear seem to start out on MMO's in their younger days. I was the same. Maxed a couple of accounts on Runescape. It's like the dopamine we get from levelling up and developing our characters in games transfers over to doing it in real life with progressing our physiques and strength.


You seem confident and happy to me though mate, you don't strike me as somebody who would punish themselves unnecessarily.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Pegasus said:


> It sounds like there's a deeper issue to resolve, and I say this as a stranger who is looking at things from a totally objective perspective. You achieved being shredded but you still lacked that confidence. What do you think it'll take to get that confidence? If you achieved all your goals, would you have it? I would say that it's a mindset, and it starts with not giving a shit what other people think.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem confident and happy to me though mate, you don't strike me as somebody who would punish themselves unnecessarily.


Oh no, I wouldn't do this now. I'm just saying the tendency to obsess over progression does seem to carry over from gaming in to bodybuilding regularly. I've been in a similar position to OP in the past. Trying to achieve/maintain certain levels of body fat at the expense of my quality of life, thinking I would get some sort of fulfilment from it, but I was never completely satisfied when I got there. That's why I'm a little bit more flexible with my approach now in terms of how I diet and how much gear I use. That way, I can still get lean enough to look decent to anybody who isn't a serious competitor and I don't have to deprive myself of food I enjoy, spend excessive periods restricting calories or run fat-burners which don't agree with me. Plus OP feels like he will be much more confident when he's as lean as he wants to be. I don't know if that will turn out to be the case, but he probably needs to get there and find out first before he evaluates if it was all worthwhile.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

DLTBB said:


> Oh no, I wouldn't do this now. I'm just saying the tendency to obsess over progression does seem to carry over from gaming in to bodybuilding regularly. I've been in a similar position to OP in the past. Trying to achieve/maintain certain levels of body fat at the expense of my quality of life, thinking I would get some sort of fulfilment from it, but I was never completely satisfied when I got there. That's why I'm a little bit more flexible with my approach now in terms of how I diet and how much gear I use. That way, I can still get lean enough to look decent to anybody who isn't a serious competitor and I don't have to deprive myself of food I enjoy, spend excessive periods restricting calories or run fat-burners which don't agree with me. Plus OP feels like he will be much more confident when he's as lean as he wants to be. I don't know if that will turn out to be the case, but he probably needs to get there and find out first before he evaluates if it was all worthwhile.


I hear you. I was like that in my younger days of pursuing what I thought it was that I wanted. Steroids changed my life completely though, very similar to Zyzz's story. It was almost a joke how quickly girls I had no chance with before were suddenly in my league. That was a side benefit but I was much more focussed on getting big than getting shredded (I've always been naturally lean and dropping fat is easier than packing on muscle for me). I was pretty obsessive about it and I did get pretty big, it was obvious I was using something. I just trained hard and ate as much as I could, didn't worry much about the gear use either, cycled for 3 months then off for 3 months or more and so on. I do look a lot better these days but size wise I'm not as big. 



DLTBB said:


> Oh no, I wouldn't do this now. I'm just saying the tendency to obsess over progression does seem to carry over from gaming in to bodybuilding regularly. I've been in a similar position to OP in the past. Trying to achieve/maintain certain levels of body fat at the expense of my quality of life, thinking I would get some sort of fulfilment from it, but I was never completely satisfied when I got there. That's why I'm a little bit more flexible with my approach now in terms of how I diet and how much gear I use. That way, I can still get lean enough to look decent to anybody who isn't a serious competitor and I don't have to deprive myself of food I enjoy, spend excessive periods restricting calories or run fat-burners which don't agree with me. *Plus OP feels like he will be much more confident when he's as lean as he wants to be. I don't know if that will turn out to be the case, but he probably needs to get there and find out first before he evaluates if it was all worthwhile.*


OP got to his 5% target (or very close to it, he was absolutely shredded) and says he still wasn't happy, that's why I'm thinking there's something deeper to sort out. A lifestyle of scarcity and sacrifice is not a sustainable one, if the end goal is unattainable. Something to think about for everyone wondering where that place is where they'll be happy enough to just maintain what they already have.


----------



## knuckleheed2 (Dec 1, 2019)

Pegasus said:


> It sounds like there's a deeper issue to resolve, and I say this as a stranger who is looking at things from a totally objective perspective. You achieved being shredded but you still lacked that confidence. What do you think it'll take to get that confidence? If you achieved all your goals, would you have it? I would say that it's a mindset, and it starts with not giving a shit what other people think.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem confident and happy to me though mate, you don't strike me as somebody who would punish themselves unnecessarily.


"and it starts with not giving a shit what other people think".

Great piece of advice. I was a much happier person after I adopted this mindset in my late 20s. It's something I try to instil into my own kids. What other people think of me is no concern to me whatsoever. Haters always going to hate so don't let anyone try to derail you.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Really enjoy all the comments guys thank you, I am taking all this on board and I for sure agreed with you its all about moderation. I think in my case, I think I can achieve more? Like what's the point in going gym eating well etc if we don't want to better ourselves

I mean I might be way off the block here but in my head the way im not my best currently, I agree I need to sort my eating slightly and have a donut if I want one, not 12 on one certain day and feel super bad the next.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> Really enjoy all the comments guys thank you, I am taking all this on board and I for sure agreed with you its all about moderation. I think in my case, I think I can achieve more? Like what's the point in going gym eating well etc if we don't want to better ourselves
> 
> I mean I might be way off the block here but in my head the way im not my best currently, I agree I need to sort my eating slightly and have a donut if I want one, not 12 on one certain day and feel super bad the next.


We can all achieve more and it's always good to want to improve things, but at the same time, don't forget to appreciate what you've already got. A physique that most guys would kill for, to start with mate.

I'm pretty lean as well (probably around 12% or so), and my last coach managed to get me to stop meticulously tracking all of my calories and macros and just focus on the basics (set meals, macros and cals are already calculated). By the time dinner comes around now, I can sit down with the family and have dinner with them, whatever they're eating, because I've already hit all my macros for the day. I have enough calories budgeted to have a decent meal and a snack after if I want.

Over time, if the scales are going in the wrong direction or I'm not liking what I see in the mirror, I adjust my set meals as necessary to either increase or decrease calories. I don't really drink these days but I could if I wanted to, as one day here and there won't make any difference.


----------



## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Pegasus said:


> We can all achieve more and it's always good to want to improve things, but at the same time, don't forget to appreciate what you've already got. A physique that most guys would kill for, to start with mate.
> 
> I'm pretty lean as well (probably around 12% or so), and my last coach managed to get me to stop meticulously tracking all of my calories and macros and just focus on the basics (set meals, macros and cals are already calculated). By the time dinner comes around now, I can sit down with the family and have dinner with them, whatever they're eating, because I've already hit all my macros for the day. I have enough calories budgeted to have a decent meal and a snack after if I want.
> 
> Over time, if the scales are going in the wrong direction or I'm not liking what I see in the mirror, I adjust my set meals as necessary to either increase or decrease calories. I don't really drink these days but I could if I wanted to, as one day here and there won't make any difference.


My mate @G-man99 watches what he eats and then when he overeats and gains a bit fat, he goes on a cocaine session to bring his weight back down


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Really enjoy all the comments guys thank you, I am taking all this on board and I for sure agreed with you its all about moderation. I think in my case, I think I can achieve more? Like what's the point in going gym eating well etc if we don't want to better ourselves
> 
> I mean I might be way off the block here but in my head the way im not my best currently, I agree I need to sort my eating slightly and have a donut if I want one, not 12 on one certain day and feel super bad the next.


I enjoyed reading the comments and replies. You got yourself in great condition and still are. I remember reading when you got to where you wanted to be it wasn't very nice. I'd stay at that weight and enjoy your training, the posters are right, it is not sustainable very low body fat. You could have a touch of body dysmorphia actually. Relax mate, you are in great condition!


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Bloods came back pretty optimal, very happy with my trough day being 30.2, dosage is slightly high but am taking 0.2 rohm test e 3 times a week equating to 180 weekly. 

My concern is: prolactin is 6 and shbg is 6.....
How do I raise shbg? My prolactin is due to caber so will taper down on that, currently on 1mg weekly will just half it and retest, no idea on shbg though

Cheers guys


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> Bloods came back pretty optimal, very happy with my trough day being 30.2, dosage is slightly high but am taking 0.2 rohm test e 3 times a week equating to 180 weekly.
> 
> My concern is: prolactin is 6 and shbg is 6.....
> How do I raise shbg? My prolactin is due to caber so will taper down on that, currently on 1mg weekly will just half it and retest, no idea on shbg though
> ...


Raising SHBG is difficult and not something I could offer advice on. Lowering it is easier. It's related to more than just testosterone and not enough time and research is dedicated to it imo. 

On prolactin, why are you taking 1mg of caber a week? Are you on 19nors?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

My prolactin always spikes, it was high before trt and went up to around 2500~ while I was on Test for the first time


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> My prolactin always spikes, it was high before trt and went up to around 2500~ while I was on Test for the first time


That's higher than I'd be comfortable with. 

You should be exploring the underlying cause of this with your Dr, which might be linked to your low SHBG. Could indicate something wrong with your pituitary gland. 

I would stop self-medicating and establish your baseline. It's difficult as you're also doing self TRT, which will make it harder to get to the bottom of your issues. 

Advice is to stop the self medicating and seeking advice from us bros on the internet, book an appointment with your GP and go from there. Don't admit to any of the steroid use. If you get nowhere with them, then go private with Leger or similar.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Hey bit of a back story, 

Originally started on trt with optimale before any AAS use, just low test, had all the bloods and given all clear to start, 2 months down the line more bloods and that's when we saw my prolactin shot up, booked a mri in and did find a problem with the pitutary not communicating well with my testes which is why I had to start trt in the first place, forward to today where I stopped optimale due to the price and little help. All the trt clinics are very steep in price for little in return apart from knowing its legit test really.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> Hey bit of a back story,
> 
> Originally started on trt with optimale before any AAS use, just low test, had all the bloods and given all clear to start, 2 months down the line more bloods and that's when we saw my prolactin shot up, booked a mri in and did find a problem with the pitutary not communicating well with my testes which is why I had to start trt in the first place, forward to today where I stopped optimale due to the price and little help. All the trt clinics are very steep in price for little in return apart from knowing its legit test really.


Interesting backstory and makes sense regarding why you dropped Optimale (£80 a month aren't they?). 

Check out Leger. They're pretty cheap and they let you buy your test from whichever pharmacy you want, so you can shop around.

Ultimately, you do have a legitimate issue somewhere. Self-medicating is a rocky road that can lead to serious health issues later on and you should have oversight of a Dr. Self-medicating can kill you at worst and mask the issues at best.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Just to clarify, I'd get onto legit TRT through a clinic like Leger, then get on the blower to the GP ASAP.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

I'd be inclined to go legit again, but am moving to australia soon and will need to find a clinic out there ideally, if it's even legal there. 

Just out of curiosity, lower shbg has its pros? Eg more free test for muscle building or am I way off the ball?


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> I'd be inclined to go legit again, but am moving to australia soon and will need to find a clinic out there ideally, if it's even legal there.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, lower shbg has its pros? Eg more free test for muscle building or am I way off the ball?


Yeah it means more free test floating around your body, but low SHBG or high SHBG can be an indicator that something else is wrong. Then you mentioned the issue with your pituitary, and high prolactin, which can inhibit SHBG production. But you've lowered prolactin with cabergoline, so in theory it should have come up. It's definitely something to get checked, and if you're on legit TRT, then they'll help you. If you're injecting UGL test, and your test levels are in range while your FSH and LH are crushed, they'll suspect steroid use and then refuse to help. 

AAS laws in Aus are stricter than the UK. It's illegal to possess them for personal use unless you have a prescription for them. Legit TRT in Aus shouldn't be difficult to get, even easier if you're already on TRT in the UK through a legit clinic. Should just be a case of taking your medication and prescription, and finding a new clinic over there. 

If nothing else is wrong, and you feel fine, then there's nothing to worry about regarding the SHBG. The high prolactin is obviously an issue with your pituitary, which prompted you to start TRT. It's a case of secondary hypogonadism, for which TRT is a viable and valid treatment and you shouldn't have any issues if you manage it for the rest of your life with medication. You should seek to get to the bottom of it though, and get your caber via prescription, as opposed to self-medicating as you're asking for trouble later down the line. This is just so that you're taking medication under supervision.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Thought I should post an update - 

I've been in contact with Optimale again to see if I can go back on their protocol, Did not mention Aus but as Pegasus said, Being legit in UK and moving over to Aus will be 10x easier.
I've figured a new "cheat" which I love, Doesnt leave me feeling horrible in the morning - Sushi.
Calories are 3300 - 3400 depending if I have my salmon or beef on that given day. Other meals don't change.

Weight is stable at around 183-185

Feeling good, Still a little hungry but if I'm maintaining I just have to suck it up. 280p 400c 50-60f (depending on salmon or not)


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Weight was hovering around 188lbs, on Friday had a bad case of bloat, followed by vomit and constant water diarehha now. I've lost 15lbs and still going down, trip to a and e to be told bloods are okay, liver slightly high but nothing to be concerned about but I can't do ahything, looking at foods make me full, when all I could do before was think about eating. Any idea guys?

Water diarehha
Vomit x5 on the Friday
Constant bloat
Dramatic weight loss


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> Weight was hovering around 188lbs, on Friday had a bad case of bloat, followed by vomit and constant water diarehha now. I've lost 15lbs and still going down, trip to a and e to be told bloods are okay, liver slightly high but nothing to be concerned about but I can't do ahything, looking at foods make me full, when all I could do before was think about eating. Any idea guys?
> 
> Water diarehha
> Vomit x5 on the Friday
> ...


Stomach bug, food poisoning, could be a virus even. Lots of it doing the rounds at the moment. 

What happened with your gf and the pregnancy? Could be stress related?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Was thinking possibly stress. But the consistency is little to none, food isn't being digested, when I threw up I could've had a full blown meal there with how everything looked. In terms of the other end it's pure water. 30+ times a day along with some insane bloat 247 I only get when I ate 3000+ in one go.

In terms of gf, we agreed I go out to travel, meet up at Xmas time see where heads are at and go from there, my biggest regret in life would not going traveling and I said that.


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> Was thinking possibly stress. But the consistency is little to none, food isn't being digested, when I threw up I could've had a full blown meal there with how everything looked. In terms of the other end it's pure water. 30+ times a day along with some insane bloat 247 I only get when I ate 3000+ in one go.
> 
> In terms of gf, we agreed I go out to travel, meet up at Xmas time see where heads are at and go from there, my biggest regret in life would not going traveling and I said that.


You taking anything at the moment? Are you feeling hungry before you eat? 

Usually the appetite goes with stress. 

Did you get the pregnancy confirmed?


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

I've taking the usual vits, Ashwaganda, omega etc etc, Glutamine as do suffer from bloat after my CoR meal usually. But i'm trying to maintain protien atleast, feeling starving but as soon as meal is infront of me it goes, Had 300g of Yogurt (bad choice I know but it is a small quantity) chicken burger today as went to see mum. Managed that down and could've had more then but towards evening it's worse and worse. Have bad acid burps too which smell and taste horrible. 

And yeah, Confirmed


----------



## 134637 (10 mo ago)

Felix11 said:


> I've taking the usual vits, Ashwaganda, omega etc etc, Glutamine as do suffer from bloat after my CoR meal usually. But i'm trying to maintain protien atleast, feeling starving but as soon as meal is infront of me it goes, Had 300g of Yogurt (bad choice I know but it is a small quantity) chicken burger today as went to see mum. Managed that down and could've had more then but towards evening it's worse and worse. Have bad acid burps too which smell and taste horrible.
> 
> And yeah, Confirmed


Very strange regarding the appetite etc. I know @DLTBB and @Alex12340 are both suffering with bouts of IBD at the moment and might be able to chime in but I do think it's stress related. 

Congrats on the pregnancy but keep your wits about you. Being fertile with years of crushed LH and FSH is classed as a miracle pregnancy given how unlikely it is. Give her the benefit of the doubt and support her as much as possible. I know a guy who disowned his kid because he said it couldn't be his but the little lad is the spitting image of him.


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Weight was hovering around 188lbs, on Friday had a bad case of bloat, followed by vomit and constant water diarehha now. I've lost 15lbs and still going down, trip to a and e to be told bloods are okay, liver slightly high but nothing to be concerned about but I can't do ahything, looking at foods make me full, when all I could do before was think about eating. Any idea guys?
> 
> Water diarehha
> Vomit x5 on the Friday
> ...


Agree with Pegasus, you must have a stomach bug, virus or something like that, only time I have heard of what you are suffering the person had a bug or food poisoning. You must make sure you drink enough fluid, you can get severely dehydrated with diarrhoea and throwing up! When you throw up there is always carrots and it looks a meal.... What did the doctor say? To be honest, I'm a bit stressed at times but that has never happened to me.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Weight at all time low...170lbs...Havnt been able to eat barely anything and still bed bound pretty much. As sad as it sounds I'm so concerned about the muscle loss in all of this, My protein intake has been below 50g each day for 6 days now....Is there any reassurance to know I'm not losing a drastic amount of muscle?


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Felix11 said:


> Weight at all time low...170lbs...Havnt been able to eat barely anything and still bed bound pretty much. As sad as it sounds I'm so concerned about the muscle loss in all of this, My protein intake has been below 50g each day for 6 days now....Is there any reassurance to know I'm not losing a drastic amount of muscle?


You might lose a bit but it’s going to be a matter of ounces over that period of time and you’ll easily gain it back once the calories, protein and training are ramped back up. It’ll probably look and feel like you’ve lost more due to a drop in water/glycogen but it won’t be a great deal over the course of a week, especially if there’s some PEDs in the mix still.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Back in the gym, Still suffering with no change. Gone private but want this sorted as it's impossible to work with my job (Electrician) 
Weight is around 178lbs currently, Looking lean which is cool....I'm weak, No appetite at all and still going toilet constantly through the night and morning, does seem to settle from about 12-6pm.

Got prescribed for food poisioning from private doctor which currently taking but it's all he could give me due to not having a stool sample.

No PEDs as such...TRT @ 180mg per week split into 3 doses


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Back in the gym, Still suffering with no change. Gone private but want this sorted as it's impossible to work with my job (Electrician)
> Weight is around 178lbs currently, Looking lean which is cool....I'm weak, No appetite at all and still going toilet constantly through the night and morning, does seem to settle from about 12-6pm.
> 
> Got prescribed for food poisioning from private doctor which currently taking but it's all he could give me due to not having a stool sample.
> ...


Can take a while to clear mate. Surprised you had to go private. Weight not at all bad, your lean and your optimum weight is not far away at 184lbs isn't it?

Hopefully it will clear and you can get back to normal.


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

Take it from me mate i lost 11kg due to colitis and got back into the gym exactly 20 days ago and have put 8 back on. Everything comes back quick from muscle memory including strength.


----------



## Imperitive.Intel (10 mo ago)

Epic journey mate! Epic progress! You're at a low bodyfat percentage at the start. You must be talking competition level shredded LOL! 

I have a lot to learn from you. I just used DNP to cut, so I can't make any valuable contribution here. Lost 35lbs in 7 weeks though. Will defo be watching this thread.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Cheers @Imperitive.Intel I was lean, But I was weak and maybe pushed it a bit too far as I suffered severe strength loss (Struggling for a 80kg bench) from 110kg for reps.

Anyways, Back on diet once again, Had a flair up from digestion again, We think I'm Celiac....

Update from personal life: Broke up with girlfriend after sitting down with her and her parents STRESSING the baby was not the right move, As we both have 0 credit score due to corona virus era and would struggle to rent and live and just begging to say this is not the right time...anyways thats happened....

Update gym lifestyle: Going well, Eating well (4000 a day) Slowly gaining before Australia (184lbs currently from losing loads of weight)


----------



## Alex12340 (Mar 22, 2021)

Felix11 said:


> Cheers @Imperitive.Intel I was lean, But I was weak and maybe pushed it a bit too far as I suffered severe strength loss (Struggling for a 80kg bench) from 110kg for reps.
> 
> Anyways, Back on diet once again, Had a flair up from digestion again, We think I'm Celiac....
> 
> ...


Have you had any diagnosis etc? Affected by gluten? Had a client who was Celiac and managed to get training and control his symptoms after learning what made it flair up so certainly not ideal but something you can push through.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

Not been diagnosed, But had another flair up lasting a day and a half after the convo with the ex, So it's either just purely stressed or the Sushi I had. I've also had a tollerenace test saying Dairy, bread, gluten foods I can't really have. I'm almost always heavily bloated after a full days eating and extremely bloated after bread.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Felix11 said:


> Update from personal life: Broke up with girlfriend after sitting down with her and her parents STRESSING the baby was not the right move, As we both have 0 credit score due to corona virus era and would struggle to rent and live and just begging to say this is not the right time...anyways thats happened....


That makes sense to be fair. Plenty of time to have a baby when you’re financially stable and have a house to bring him/her up in. 
What symptoms are you experiencing with the digestion? I thought I was gluten-intolerant to begin with and experimented with a gluten free diet. Turned out to be worse unfortunately and continued to have flare ups despite dropping the gluten. 
I’m glad it wasn’t that, because I can honestly say I was depressed after about two weeks on such a restrictive diet. Literally every bit of food that gives me any pleasure in life seems to contain it. It’s really difficult to eat out anywhere too. If you’re truly celiac, you can’t even eat food that’s been prepared on the same surface/chopping board as regular food if you’re sensitive.


----------



## Felix11 (Mar 22, 2021)

DLTBB said:


> That makes sense to be fair. Plenty of time to have a baby when you’re financially stable and have a house to bring him/her up in.
> What symptoms are you experiencing with the digestion? I thought I was gluten-intolerant to begin with and experimented with a gluten free diet. Turned out to be worse unfortunately and continued to have flare ups despite dropping the gluten.
> I’m glad it wasn’t that, because I can honestly say I was depressed after about two weeks on such a restrictive diet. Literally every bit of food that gives me any pleasure in life seems to contain it. It’s really difficult to eat out anywhere too. If you’re truly celiac, you can’t even eat food that’s been prepared on the same surface/chopping board as regular food if you’re sensitive.


Yeah, She's keeping it though....And agreed with her parents and her at the time I'll respect whatever she decides but I truely think It'll ruin her life, No credit, Unable to rent and she will be stuck, agreed with all not to be put on the certificate and go our own ways even though I tried my hardest to say this is definatly not the right time.

Yeah I mean I'm hoping its stress honestly, I've never been in such a stressful situation in my whole life over the past 4 weeks and hoping that has something to do with it, But as I said I'm always super bloated at the end of the day, and diet is fairly "boring" anyways, But I do know whenever I do cheat/have bread/sushi I get EXTREME to the point of uncomfort without much food. I'll play around but I hope I'm not but is looking to it.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Felix11 said:


> Yeah, She's keeping it though....And agreed with her parents and her at the time I'll respect whatever she decides but I truely think It'll ruin her life, No credit, Unable to rent and she will be stuck, agreed with all not to be put on the certificate and go our own ways even though I tried my hardest to say this is definatly not the right time.
> 
> Yeah I mean I'm hoping its stress honestly, I've never been in such a stressful situation in my whole life over the past 4 weeks and hoping that has something to do with it, But as I said I'm always super bloated at the end of the day, and diet is fairly "boring" anyways, But I do know whenever I do cheat/have bread/sushi I get EXTREME to the point of uncomfort without much food. I'll play around but I hope I'm not but is looking to it.


Stress definitely plays a big part in it. I had a mate who was going through a breakup and he was pissing out of his bum 10 times a day. Was being tested for colitis etc. But all symptoms stopped instantly when he met a new girl and resumed his life.


----------



## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

For what it is worth, sorry the way things have worked out for you mate. Hope you get back to normal.


----------

