# The Fertility Thread (includes old posts from previous)



## jonti1leg

this is definatly going on my subscribe items.... althoug ive only been using a few months, my wife and i are trying to conveive again..."babydancing" as she calls it at all the right times, testing with ovulation kits etc. i am worried that even my short term use of AAs will have impacted on my nads and sperm etc and although quite mild doseges i have been taking, can see noticable difference in my appearence. i am hoping that this thread will give me the info that can re-boost my sperm etc (although i have not had it tested yet ! ! male pride i think at the mo) ive heard that HCG and CLOMID should boost things back up to normal, along with Tribulis. But dont take that as advice, just what i heard and am hoping to get some good advice from here.

SUPERCELL..thanks for posting...ive been thinking bout posting something for a week or so but as you say...touchy subject for some...Genuine good luck to you and anyone else in the same predicament. Jon


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## gettingbigger

Good topic this.

I will let you knwo my experience about this.

I have used on and off for around 10 years and have competed.

I decided I wanted to know how much damage I had done to myself as I wanted to start a family with my lass.

I knew it would be bad as she had never caught so I went to the docs and asked to be tested.

Well the results came back and they were bad.

I was told the average male has around 20 million sperms, I had 1 million.

The average male has around 50% of these that are fully working and strong swimmers, so about 10 million healthy ones. I only had 5% ( so around 50,000).

The doc told me that with only 50,000 instead of 1,000,000 swimmers, I had very little to no chance of conceiving naturally.

I was recommended to start ivf.

I have aksed for a re-test in 6 months, as I am off all meds now.

I am 4 months off thus far, and my nads are loads bigger.

My sex drive has also slowly returned so I am crossing my fingers.

I used some clomid at the start but decided to not use anything, as I did not want to mess with my axis any mor ethan it was already done, flipping it one way then the next.

As for being off, it`s cak!

I will be watching this thread and following it closely.


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## danimal

surely you only need to get some sperm going mate then you could have it frozen that way if you strugggeld to get the girl pregnant normally or you needed to go back on gear for your career they could use artificiall insemination or summin?


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## paulo

you only need two for ivf as they fertilise two eggs and usualy implant two embrios- not always successfully unfortunately i can tell you


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## sbeast007

my wife and i are trying for our second child at the moment...she concieved on our first child just over 4 years ago when i was trying out my first sust cycle.

ive been on and off gear for the last 4 years not really paying alot of attention to pct, following some pct but not fully.

i came off a enanthate 1gweek and eq 500mg a week cycle at the beginning of november maybe just b4.

i started on the multivit tabs, zinc and fish oils and made sure that i had taken them everyday as i usually forget.

ive also just completed a short course of proviron at 50mg a day for around 20days and have just ordered some clomid to see if that helps.

we did a fertilty test the other night to see wot that had to say and according to the test which they say is 97% accurate my result was that i was producing under the norm of 20million per ml of sperm.

im feeling pretty low at the moment even tho we havent been tryin that long (3-4months) i feel as if ive been selfish in some ways for taking steroids knowing full well it could affect me in this way. and now im concerned that i may not be able to give her what she really wants.


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## sbeast007

got mine from here mate

http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/malefertility.htm


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## brownie

I to will be keeping an eye on this.

my wife and i have been trying for 5 years on and off. however i have only done a couple of short cycles during this time. our problems are misscarriges, 8 miss's to be exact, so getting pregnant has not been a problem.

But we have done every test known to man, and all results have come back normal, including my sperm count. the last time i done a sperm count was 3 years ago, and i had finished a 10 week cycle of sust 750mg p/w and deca at 400mg p/w. 8 months before i got the test done.

But we are going to embark on IVF in the summer, so i have finished a 10 week cycle of test-e 1000mg p/w this week, and i will be doing an aggresive PCT of HCG, Clomid, Nolva and Provorin, and i will be getting my sperm count done in 8 weeks time.

I am hoping to get a better result than you as i have not been on as long, but now i am a little more nerve's

We have decided on IVF as a last resort, so my wife can be monitored and be given steriods to help her hold on to th pregnancy.

I hope you do not think i am hijacking your thread, but rather than starting another one, if you don't mind i will also post my results in here...


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## 3752

Robsta said:


> I think Paul S had a similar situation but got through it ok....if i remember right





supercell said:


> Yes I am hoping Paul will offer some words here as I know he went through the same process a couple of years ago.


yes i did go through this same thing in 2005/6 me and my wife was trying for our second child since nov 04 with no luck, after my showing at the NABBA Britain in 2005 i came off steroids and promised my wife i would not go back on until we had been successful in conceiving a child.....(did not think it would take 11months though  ) i had my bloods done and found my main levels for conceiving to be very low Test was 3.3 and FSH was unreadable.

i began a normal PCT thinking this is what was needed to get the boys back in shape unfortunately at the time i was uneducated like a lot about PCT and it took me from the May until the following December to start to recover using the typical methods you found on the boards....

i was referred to a endocrinologist in Jan 06 after the normal lecture he said i should look into proviron as this is what is prescribed to help with sperm and i should be concentrating on this than raising my test levels......

at the beginning of Feb i started to use 250mg+ of proviron ed i had a sperm test when i started this treatment i had motility issues with a sperm count of under 20million after 4 weeks my sperm count went up to just under 80million and my motility was excellent......

approx 6 weeks after this my son aiden was conceived...

these days you have drugs such as HMG to help with these issues but in my opinion time is the best drug for recovery.....hope this helps james you are a good mate you and Nik deserve kids....



flexwright said:


> can I ask do you have any regrets on what you have done?


i know this was aimed at James but the only regret i have is i never had my second child sooner than i did.....


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## 3752

POWERPANTS97 said:


> However this thread, and the problems had by others posting in it begs the question how effective is the HCG and clomid style PCT?
> 
> PP97.


PP - you have to see that recovering the HPTA and increasing sperm count, motility etc can be separated you do not need high levels of test or to be fully recovered to have a decent sperm but of course it helps...

a person with a fully recovered HPTA might have a low sperm count or abnormal sperm heads/motility this is where proviron would help a great deal....

i think for James his priority is to begin recovery so that some sperm is produced then after this stage concentrate on the sperm side when it comes to medication as time off will recover the HPTA on its own....

HCG and clomid are useful how useful depends on the extent of shut down...

James it was a months gap between my first and second sperm test and they quadrupled in that time with proviron there is nothing to say high dose of proviron may start the lads to get swimming


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## POWERPANTS97

Pscarb said:


> PP - you have to see that recovering the HPTA and increasing sperm count, motility etc can be separated you do not need high levels of test or to be fully recovered to have a decent sperm but of course it helps...
> 
> a person with a fully recovered HPTA might have a low sperm count or abnormal sperm heads/motility this is where proviron would help a great deal....
> 
> i think for James his priority is to begin recovery so that some sperm is produced then after this stage concentrate on the sperm side when it comes to medication as time off will recover the HPTA on its own....
> 
> HCG and clomid are useful how useful depends on the extent of shut down...
> 
> James it was a months gap between my first and second sperm test and they quadrupled in that time with proviron there is nothing to say high dose of proviron may start the lads to get swimming


Yes i understand that Pscarb, however i have only ever used HCG the once and did not like it. Made me feel crap TBH mate. Not to say it doesn't work for some but.....

For my PCT these days i use a whole host natural methods (i put together my own stack of supplements/herb extracts etc and use that. Tamoxifen or the like is the only chemical i will use for blocking estrogen receptors).

I must say at this point i utilize short cycles never any longer than 6 weeks, more often than not 4 weeks. Cycles are well planned out.

Since using my 'chemical free' PCT over the last couple of years I have had 2 ex-gf's pregnant (1st one had a termination as she did not want kids, against my will i must add...the second was lost early on in the term due to certain reasons). So surely a natty form of PCT is just as effective if not more so at restoring HPTA fucntion as well as the other associated areas.

PP97


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## MXD

A usefull bit of info for you guys is that eating organic foods double sperm count


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## 3752

sbeast007 said:


> did the doctor prescribe that high dose of proviron mate?
> 
> or did u self medicate?


self medicated but got the idea from my endo...



POWERPANTS97 said:


> Yes i understand that Pscarb, however i have only ever used HCG the once and did not like it. Made me feel crap TBH mate. Not to say it doesn't work for some but.....
> 
> For my PCT these days i use a whole host natural methods (i put together my own stack of supplements/herb extracts etc and use that. Tamoxifen or the like is the only chemical i will use for blocking estrogen receptors).
> 
> I must say at this point i utilize short cycles never any longer than 6 weeks, more often than not 4 weeks. Cycles are well planned out.
> 
> Since using my 'chemical free' PCT over the last couple of years I have had 2 ex-gf's pregnant (1st one had a termination as she did not want kids, against my will i must add...the second was lost early on in the term due to certain reasons). So surely a natty form of PCT is just as effective if not more so at restoring HPTA fucntion as well as the other associated areas.
> 
> PP97


it sounds like it works which is grea, not sure it would with someone really shut down but you never know...

can i ask how did you run the HCG as i have never been an advocate of high doses but smaller doses of 500 - 1000iu's e3-e5day


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## mindmuscle

POWERPANTS97 said:


> For my PCT these days i use a whole host natural methods (i put together my own stack of supplements/herb extracts etc and use that. Tamoxifen or the like is the only chemical i will use for blocking estrogen receptors).
> 
> PP97


Would you mind sharing what you use for you chemical free pct mate??


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## POWERPANTS97

Pscarb said:


> self medicated but got the idea from my endo...
> 
> it sounds like it works which is grea, not sure it would with someone really shut down but you never know...
> 
> can i ask how did you run the HCG as i have never been an advocate of high doses but smaller doses of 500 - 1000iu's e3-e5day


Ran the HCG @ 500iu E5D PScarb. Just didn't like how i felt on it and seemed watery and my skin flared up worse than ever before!

I agree it may not work on someone who is in a state of serve shutdown but it would be an interesting avenue to pursue and see just how effective it is...i have a feeling it could help a great deal but that is just me speaking form personal experience.

PP97


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## 3752

POWERPANTS97 said:


> i have a feeling it could help a great deal but that is just me speaking form personal experience.
> 
> PP97


personal experience in my opinion is sometimes better than scientific studies....


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## scorpion

It took me two years to get my wife pregnant with our first child.

I was cycling roughly 8-12 weeks on with 6-12 weeks off over 3 years up until my wife became pregnent.

With no luck for two years i decided as you have to stay off untill my wife got pregnant.

I was starting to worry that i had ruined my chances of having a child and was planning on going to the doc's.

So i put together a final pct after loads of reading online, of,

2-3 weeks before end of cycle 500iu hcg every 3 days along with 20mg nolva, 100mg proviron evey day

pct

100mg clomid/40mg nolva/50mg proviron days 1-7

50mg clomid/30mg/50mg proviron days 7-14

20mg nolva/ 50mg proviron days 14-28

10mg nolva days 28 - 35

Three weeks after pct my wife was expecting our 1st child.

Our 2nd child 3 years later was conceived during the 2nd week of pct using 12.5mg of aromisin every 3rd day.

Dont worry i'm confident you'll be alright with time off and the right supplements.

craig


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## POWERPANTS97

Pscarb said:


> personal experience in my opinion is sometimes better than scientific studies....


I would agree that first hand experience can be more valuable than a scientific study performed on a controlled group of subjects in inhibited surroundings.

Not dismissing scientific studies at all they certainly have their merit and have taught me a great deal but its having the ability to extract the applicable information and utilize it to best extent.

PP97


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## Nytol

Sorry for the lateness of my posting.

*The basic principle is to come off without the crash and without any nasty rebounds post PCT. The traditional cold turkey PCTs often leads to an over compensation of the said feedback loops which in turn leads to a pendulum like return to homeostasis. The taper PCT attempts to gently return the endocrine system to homeostasis.*

*
*

*
Firstly you need to enter the waiting part of the taper. This is a 4-8 week stasis period where the aim is to rid the body of all metabolites of every med except testosterone and a SERM.*

*
The length of the waiting period is dependent on the current cycle to be finished. 100mg/w of testosterone enanthate pinned twice a week is optimal with a SERM such as Raloxifene or Tormifene 40mg/d. This is to be maintained throughout the stasis period. Raloxifene would probably be my choice if fertility were my concern.*

*
1. With Propionate/Acetate esters 4 weeks is required*

*
2. With Enanthate/Cypionate esters 6 weeks is required*

*
3. With Decanoate/Udecylente esters 8 weeks is required.*

*
Remember this is not just the time it takes for the hormone to clear the system but the time required for all the metabolites to reach background levels and the feedback loops to calm down somewhat.*

*
All AI's should be tapered off over a 3 week period. No HCG should be consumed throughout nor should any compound that affects the HPTA negatively.*

*
*

*
Just to recap that's 100mg/w test-e split into 2 50mg injections with 40mg of ralox/d or 40mg tormifene/d.*

*
The following part is the taper. This period lasts 6 weeks and is designed to drop the test levels below what natural production would be slowly. I have seen blood work to prove that with this method when the exogenous testosterone drops below the natural homeostatic levels the HPTA starts to play catch up. Free and bound test levels showed to be the same when the individual was taking 80mg/w and 20mg/w showing the natural test has kicked in and was picking up the slack.*

*
*

*
The stasis period followed the weekly protocol as thus.*

*
80mg/60mg/50mg/40mg/30mg/20m/ 40mg/d Tormifene or raloxifene throughout.*

*
*

*
The use of a SERM is vital, there was a well documented study that shows 25mg/w testosterone-e alone had zero effect on the HPTA but a dose above that did. The upper threshold with Tormephine was 100mg/w and these was still zero effect on the HPTA, which is interesting in its own right.*

*
*

*
I know some that have started to use proviron in the taper as this seems to have zero effect on the HPTA also this may aid libido and fertility, however HCG must be avoided.*

*
*

*
Blood work shows the total time to recovery is similar to that of a standard Nolva/Clomid or Tormephine/Raloxifene PCT however the path to recovery is far easier and at no point is the individual left with a test level of a 6 year old girl.*


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## noturbo

Good thread this, i'm in a similar situation right now. Me and the mrs have been trying for a fair few months now and no joy yet. I've only done a few cycles but a few weeks after my last one I did a home fertility test knowing we wanted to start trying and the result made me pretty depressed to say the least.

I've just been suppleenting with zinc and l-arginine for a while and hoping for the best but maybe I need to start doing more. Proviron sounds promising, maybe I'll give that a try.

I know I said no joy yet but the mrs is 26 days late as of today, unfortunately she did a test today and it was negetive :cursing: I hate constantly getting my hopes up every month only to be kicked in the balls by mother nature grrrrr

Goodluck to everyone in a similar situation :beer:


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## delhibuilder

not sure if ths is any help mate but i went to a doctor a few years back before my cycles who tests for these kind of things in central london,, plenty of other people used to go during or post cycle, in a forums hes called the doc. it is private of course but he talks you through alo of the things, he may also be able to help with recovering, if your interested let me know.


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## sbeast007

i've been running a course of 100mg per day of clomid for the last week....but im finding that its making mysex drive disappear, anyone else ever had this prob with clomid?

im thinking of dropping the dose to50mg to see if that helps


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## mad_cereal_love

brownie said:


> This is my take on it mate.
> 
> 1) Spermatocytogenesis and maturation of sperm occurs in the testes linked with cells called (IIRC) Sertoli cells.
> 
> 2) Sertoli cells are in close proximity to Leydig cells
> 
> 3) For proper spermatogenesis to occur, you need *localised* (emphasis) high concentrations of testosterone at the Sertoli cells where the sperm cells are generated and matured.
> 
> 4) Leydig cells (remember close proximity to Sertoli cells) produce testosterone in your testicles, after stimulated to do so by hormones such as FSH/LH (hypothalamus and pituatory etc).
> 
> 5) An excess of exogenously administered testosterone (ie. injecting yourself with steroids) will shut down the HPTA axis thus shutting down testosterone production in Leydig cells (and over prolonged periods of steroid use Leydig cells shrink and massively reduce in size due to underuse)
> 
> 6) Shut down testosterone production from Leydig cells, you shut off the localised high testosterone concentrations at the Sertoli cells inhibiting spermatocytogenesis.
> 
> Thus once you understand all the above, how do you go about preventing this? Well the answer is quite straightforward - never allow that localised high testosterone concentration to fully be switched off. But you are on large doses of exogenous hormones that shut down your HPTA, so you need to somehow get the Leydig cells stimulated by FSH/LH despite this. This is where HCG comes in and it does that job.
> 
> Hence the moral of the story is, IMHO, the best approach to AAS use is to administer low levels of HCG once a week from the word GO, ie. 500IU once a week throughout the whole cycle/time on. This way you always keep your Leydig cells stimulated to produce SOME testosterone, locally to the Sertoli cells and keep spermatocytogenesis still occurring.
> 
> At least thats my take on the matter and this is why I always personally recommend using HCG at say 500IU per week every week from week 1 of AAS use...although many may disagree with me on that approach, I think it is the most sensible IMHO.
> 
> mcl


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## supercell

I hope this is cool with the mods.

I want this thread to take the place of the old one.

Again, as with the last one, lets try to make it a resource for all things to do with fertility. The last thread was a great place for guys and girls to open up about an issue that many keep to themselves.

Lets face it the only reason we are on this earth is to procreate (as well as getting huge and ripped)

Post your own stories/experiences and also any studies that you may stumble across in your search for information online.

This is a subject very close to my own heart and although I may not post a lot, I will always be reading the thread and keeping up to date with everyone's progress.

Happy posting and lets have some success stories because we want cause to celebrate too!!!

J


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## sbeast007

why did u delete the old one mate?


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## supercell

Read the thread you started mate

J


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## sbeast007

ah.... just done that lol


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## Tinytom

Ive transferred some of the old posts over so the thread looks a bit out of sorts as the posts go in date order.

Sorry dont know how to avoid this.

Will add the rest later so that the info can be kept without referring to people.


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## supercell

Thanks Tom appreciate your help here. Just what you need on low carbs!!!!

J


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## Tinytom

supercell said:


> Thanks Tom appreciate your help here. Just what you need on low carbs!!!!
> 
> J


No probs mate, will get onto the rest later after Ive had my small allowance of oats lol


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## brownie

A great, it's good to see this thread back.

I will be getting my sperm test done on the 10th of April, this will be three months since i came off. i followed a strict Pct, so i am hopefull.

we got some good news last week, my wife got her blood tested in chicago. it specialises in immunology, and all my wifes antibodies where abnormal and in high range. this means that any time my wife got pregnant her immune system was attcking the foetus and aborting it every time.

this is good news for us, because for the last 6 years we have done every test known and were told that there was nothing wrong with us.

there is a treatment for this, it will mean that my wife will have to take certain drugs to supress her immune system, and she will also have to take a something called Intro lipids for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.

this is the first positive plan of action that we have gotten since we embarked on this journey 6 years ago.

so fingers crossed that my sperm sample will be ok on friday

P.S Tinytom, can you see if you can re post a post that i put up on the old thread, that was in relation to DNA fragmentation to sperm. i to not fancy typing it out again


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## supercell

^^^ Good news and good luck with the test results. Hope them fcukers are swimming mate!!

J


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## brownie

ok, i got my sperm test done today, and i am delighted to report that it came back normal and with no issues. i missed the call so they just left a message. so i will ring them on tuesday and find out what the count was etc.

I must, once again thank this board and the peolpe on it, for the advise it has given me throughout my cycle. taking HCG through out and an aggresive PCT has really paid off.

My cycle was as follows

1000mg, test enath for 11 weeks

D-bol for the first 4 weeks @ 40mg per day

300mg of propionate per week, on week 12 and 13, to bring my cycle up to pct

Hcg @500iu twice a week from the 3 week to the start of pct

PCT was as follows

100mg of clomid for 4 weeks, then 50mg for 1 more week,

40mg per day of Nolva for week 1 of pct, and then 20mg per day for a further 5 weeks

proviron 100mg per day for 6 weeks

i done the sperm test today, and it has been exactly 12 weeks since my last shot of test enath, and only 10 weeks from the start of my PCT, and i got a normal result.

I really do but this result down to using HCG throughout my cycle. as said in previous posts, it directly stimulates the testie to produce testosterone at a local level, and it is this that helps to keep your testies producing sperm.

so my wife will be starting her meds at the start of may, and we should be doing IVF at the start of june.

wish me luck. i will keep ye posted..


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## sbeast007

glad the test come back good mate...fingers crossed it all works out fine for u this time!


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## sbeast007

missis did a pregnancy test this morning and the result came back positive!

she did 2 to be on the safe side....we abit shocked but i dont know why seeing as we have been trying for nearly 8months lol

she hasnt phoned the nurse yet for a appointment she says she doesnt want to get her hopes up too much just incase.


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## noturbo

sbeast007 said:


> missis did a pregnancy test this morning and the result came back positive!
> 
> she did 2 to be on the safe side....we abit shocked but i dont know why seeing as we have been trying for nearly 8months lol
> 
> she hasnt phoned the nurse yet for a appointment she says she doesnt want to get her hopes up too much just incase.


Congrats mate, really chuffed for you :beer:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


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## sbeast007

thanks mate but we're not getting too excited just incase its a false positive or something(knowing our luck)


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## noturbo

sbeast007 said:


> thanks mate but we're not getting too excited just incase its a false positive or something(knowing our luck)


I don't think there is such thing mate, as far as i'm aware they can only ever give a false negative but never a false positive.

Hope i'm right and it's good news mate, goodluck :thumbup1:


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## brownie

noturbo said:


> I don't think there is such thing mate, as far as i'm aware they can only ever give a false negative but never a false positive.
> 
> Hope i'm right and it's good news mate, goodluck :thumbup1:


As said above, only ever here of false negatives. she will only get a positive result if there is HCG present, and there can only be HCG present if she's pregnant

That's just brilliant, congrats mate.... :beer: :thumbup1:


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## supercell

Looks like there has been lots of good news since I have been away. :thumb:

Great to hear things are going well guys. :beer:

I had my blood/sample taken today so will get my results back in a week. I'll let you know how they went.

It seems that day 12-16 is crucial for conception in females as the egg is normally released on day 14. This however does depend upon the cycle length and whether indeed it is the normal 28 days.

J


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## sbeast007

hey james are u getting ur missis to use them ovulation kits?


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## lostwars

sbeasts congrats on the news

really hope all goes well for you both,youse both deserve a break after such a long time trying

also thanks for the intresting post on immunology, my g/f lost two pregnancys and its a different angle for us to look into too


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## lostwars

three Qs here guys,please post some imput

both me and my friend impregnated our g/fs on our last cycles, is there proof behind this theory, that u have more chance of getting youre g/f pregnant while juicing?

also i was fascinated by pscarb situation of getting his partner pregnant from using a high dose of proviron, thats one for the note book to use in future , thanks paul

also do you produce more sperm from the use of clomid? or what im really asking is do the numbers of swimmers increase with the increase in sperm also?


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## supercell

sbeast007 said:


> hey james are u getting ur missis to use them ovulation kits?


No mate, just the 'sh*gging like rabbits for the week in the middle' kit. :thumb:

J


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## supercell

lostwars said:


> three Qs here guys,please post some imput
> 
> both me and my friend impregnated our g/fs on our last cycles, is there proof behind this theory, that u have more chance of getting youre g/f pregnant while juicing?
> 
> also i was fascinated by pscarb situation of getting his partner pregnant from using a high dose of proviron, thats one for the note book to use in future , thanks paul
> 
> also do you produce more sperm from the use of clomid? or what im really asking is do the numbers of swimmers increase with the increase in sperm also?


1. NO. Higher possibility if your misses is playing away whilst you are admiring yourself in the mirror though from the huge amount of muscle you have recently attained:lol:

2.Possibly. It increases semen volume or 'load' and increases LH which would effect test production so therefore more test present would mean hypothetically more sperm. :thumbup1:

J


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## lostwars

supercell said:


> 1. NO. Higher possibility if your misses is playing away whilst you are admiring yourself in the mirror though from the huge amount of muscle you have recently attained:lol:
> 
> 2.Possibly. It increases semen volume or 'load' and increases LH which would effect test production so therefore more test present would mean hypothetically more sperm. :thumbup1:
> 
> J


ha ha lol nice answer to the 1st QS bro, but god love her she looked like she was dragged through a bush backwards everyday, i had a horn on me that could hammer in nails and wore the poor girl out, it was totally the other way around post cycle as i suffered badly libido wise after my pct, ill always order some viagra now when im nearing the end of a cycle, i felt bad for her b/c i just wasnt up to it at all felt like an old man hormonaly

ididnt use any hcg during or after my cycle and didnt use enough clomid in my pct, after me banging on to anyone that would listen that pct is the most important part of any cycle i didnt do it meself

thanks for the answer to my 2nd q also


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## sbeast007

supercell said:


> No mate, just the 'sh*gging like rabbits for the week in the middle' kit. :thumb:
> 
> J


well thats one way of covering the angles mate :lol:

but to be honest they are very good because if ur missis is late ovulating then ud be shagging like rabbits at the wrong time:whistling:


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## uknumbr14

I have taken two infertility tests recently and i failed them both dismally,

My last course ended in october,

I am thinking about starting my new course but i am now extremely apprehensive due to this test, i followed a minimul pct in october,

Any advice?


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## sbeast007

best bet is to stay off until she becomes pregnant going back on will only make things harder.


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## supercell

Had some of my test results back today and things are looking a lot brighter than 3 months ago when my last blood tests were done. My sperm test was done 4 months ago.

My FSH, LH, Prolactin and SHBG are all now within normal ranges. :thumb:

My test is still low however at 3.4 (it was 2.1) :confused1:

My sperm count is now 9 million and thats up from ZERO last time (4 months ago) but still below the desired 20 million plus:cursing: 

So everything is going in the right direction:thumbup1:

J


----------



## Flexboy23

supercell said:


> Had some of my test results back today and things are looking a lot brighter than 3 months ago when my last blood tests were done. My sperm test was done 4 months ago.
> 
> My FSH, LH, Prolactin and SHBG are all now within normal ranges. :thumb:
> 
> My test is still low however at 3.4 (it was 2.1) :confused1:
> 
> My sperm count is now 9 million and thats up from ZERO last time (4 months ago) but still below the desired 20 million plus:cursing:
> 
> So everything is going in the right direction:thumbup1:
> 
> J


Are you currently still running any SERMS at this time? And what about the suggestion of high doseages of Proviron i know PS was suggesting to raise count.... Are you doing that currently, or just letting your body recover by itself from this point?


----------



## sbeast007

oh well mate thats very good news only need one good swimmer out of them 9million


----------



## noturbo

supercell said:


> Had some of my test results back today and things are looking a lot brighter than 3 months ago when my last blood tests were done. My sperm test was done 4 months ago.
> 
> My FSH, LH, Prolactin and SHBG are all now within normal ranges. :thumb:
> 
> My test is still low however at 3.4 (it was 2.1) :confused1:
> 
> My sperm count is now 9 million and thats up from ZERO last time (4 months ago) but still below the desired 20 million plus:cursing:
> 
> So everything is going in the right direction:thumbup1:
> 
> J


Thats great news that it's all going in the right direction! Hopefully things will get better and better from here :thumbup1:


----------



## supercell

Flexboy23 said:


> Are you currently still running any SERMS at this time? And what about the suggestion of high doseages of Proviron i know PS was suggesting to raise count.... Are you doing that currently, or just letting your body recover by itself from this point?


I am following a protocol at the moment which takes into account the above.

J


----------



## supercell

sbeast007 said:


> oh well mate thats very good news only need one good swimmer out of them 9million


Indeed, will have another test in around 8 weeks according to doctor who was very encouraged by results.

J


----------



## Flexboy23

supercell said:


> I am following a protocol at the moment which takes into account the above.
> 
> J


understood 

cheers

Si


----------



## blackbeard

hi,i'm new to this thread we're trying for number 4,wife had depot(birthcontrol injection) 16 months ago and these CAN take up to 18 months to wear off and she's been blaming that.

After doing some research she's realised how bad AAS are 4 your count and started blaming me.

I was on tren/eq up 'till mid march,anyone know how bad these particular AAS are for the count or are they all the same?

Took HCG PCT and shovelled tribulus in up till now as well as zinc etc 'feel'back to full health down there

Should i hit some proviron now or just be patient??


----------



## supercell

blackbeard said:


> hi,i'm new to this thread we're trying for number 4,wife had depot(birthcontrol injection) 16 months ago and these CAN take up to 18 months to wear off and she's been blaming that.
> 
> After doing some research she's realised how bad AAS are 4 your count and started blaming me.
> 
> I was on tren/eq up 'till mid march,anyone know how bad these particular AAS are for the count or are they all the same?
> 
> Took HCG PCT and shovelled tribulus in up till now as well as zinc etc 'feel'back to full health down there
> 
> Should i hit some proviron now or just be patient??


Those meds are notorious in shutting you down hard, I know that much.

J


----------



## supercell

Good post mate.

J


----------



## sbeast007

mine was 250mg proviron ed for a month then switched to clomid 100mg a day for first week then 50mg a day for a month, then switched to hcg at 1500iu every 3rd to 4th day

taking shot first thing in the morning. after i finished the first box of hcg i.e 3amps we found out the missis was pregnant.


----------



## blackbeard

so would you say hcg was the most potent med or the combination of all 3??

i don't think i could take that much proviron e.d.(painful semi permanent boner!!!)


----------



## hackskii

mad_cereal_love said:


> Very nice post mate, hope you don't mind me elaborating on this idea some.
> 
> That high concentration of sperm that is in the testicles is called Intra-Testicular Testosterone (ITT).
> 
> As above on cycle FSH, LH and ITT pretty much drop to low amounts. This lack of stimulation to the Leydig cells (LH), the Sertoli cells (FSH) and ITT (lack of endogenous testosterone production) is most likely the reason for steroids and sterility issues.
> 
> A typical PCT can get you close, but pretty much does nothing for FSH and those lazy Sertoli cells, after all without sperm pregnancy wont happen.
> 
> I can think of 3 different drugs that address the atrophied Sertoli cells that will stimulate them to produce sperm.
> 
> HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropins)
> 
> rFSH (recombinant follicle stimulating hormone)
> 
> Clomid fertility drug used on both women and men, in women is promotes ovulation, in men it is used in fertility and to diagnose if one is primary (nuts), or secondary (pituitary) hypogonadism.
> 
> Clomid @ 100mg a day for 5 to 7 days doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50%.
> 
> So, to produce results, one would need to stimulate all of the cells and glands to get back to work and do their jobs.
> 
> HCG is an LH analog; it will stimulate the Leydig cells to produce testosterone even in the presence of exogenous testosterone.
> 
> rFHS and HMG will stimulate the Sertoli cells to produce sperm (HMG will also stimulate the Leydig cells too).
> 
> Clomid and nolva will promote the body to elevate both LH and FSH when HCG and HMG are discontinued. This pretty much will spark the pituitary to send these signals to the respective cells to help them jump start things.
> 
> But, what about desentization issues with the HCG?
> 
> Leydig cell desensitization due to HCG usage is blocked and/or minimized by Nolvadex. This occurs by suppressing HCG's ability to inhibit the conversion of 17 alpha hydroxyprogesterone to testosterone.
> 
> I have never seen any other SERM that can make this claim other than nolva.
> 
> I think Proviron might be helpful for libido, and even to make the man feel even a bit better.
> 
> I am 13 days into my PCT right now and this time I will be adding in Proviron.


----------



## Mrpedigree

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## supercell

Mrpedigree said:


> Read allot of the posts here and there is some hard reading for anyone trying for Kidd's and still taking gear ! Like my self:rolleyes:
> 
> I don't do loads ...but i do have a dabble on the D-bol twice a year..but not to heavy:innocent: we have been trying for Kidd's for about 5 years now and for the first time at Xmas this year my Mrs fell pregnant whilst i was on the first and only D-boll cycle i had done in about 8 years:confused1: we thought we had won the lottery because we were just about to throw some money at it( IVf) Then the worst happened and she went and miscarried:cursing:
> 
> Whats really confusing is as soon as i went on the D-Boll she got pregnant after five years of trying :confused1:
> 
> Anybody know what the affect is of just d-boll alone on your sperm Fertility?


Pure coincidence mate IMO

J


----------



## supercell

hackskii said:


> Great post:thumb:
> 
> J


----------



## supercell

dutch_scott said:


> sorry if this has been asked but are u at bodypower?


haha, yes mate was there on sunday for half a day due to car malfunction!! :cursing:

J


----------



## slype

Hey guys

My missus and I have been trying for a little un for about 4 years (it will be our second) but havent had much luck. In April 2007 I had my sperm tested an it proved to be of decent quality so that wasnt the problem.

Two years later (now!) by wife has decided to proceed with IVF and has arranged for tests to be carried out.

I will be tested for HIV and Hep B & C. My sperm will also be tested again.

My current cycle was to be:

wks 1 - 12 Testeviron 400mg e6d

wks 1 - 12 Equipoise 400mg e6d

wks 1 - 4 Dianabol 100mg ed

wks 1 - 12 Proviron 25mg ed

wks 8 - 14 Winstrol 100mg eod

usual PCT to follow

My query is this: - I am two weeks into my third cycle (5 months since my PCT on my second cycle) and I have got to go for these tests next Friday. As I have not told the wife I am using AAS I was wondering if this will show up in the tests.

If it does, I know she is going to use this as the excuse as to why she cannot conceive even though I have read a lot of posts on here from guys who say their partners have conceived on cycle.

Also, I take it I should stop my cycle where it is at now rather than continuing whilst we undergo the IVF?

Any input is appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

If your wife is getting IVF then why are you taking gear?

You know for many men you wont be able to concieve.

I would stop the cycle now, even though you wont have the gear clear by next Friday, I would consider some HCG right now.

I would think it is pointless to pay all that money only to have you toss in a spanner into the mix.

Your sperm may be ok now, but over time it no doubt will become compromised.

HMG might be the best bet here, but androgens will be high anyway.


----------



## slype

hackskii said:


> If your wife is getting IVF then why are you taking gear?
> 
> *TBH, although we had discussed IVF I thought it was a long way off until I got a call in work from her today telling me my appointment date and time.!*
> 
> You know for many men you wont be able to concieve.
> 
> I would stop the cycle now, even though you wont have the gear clear by next Friday, I would consider some HCG right now.
> 
> *How much HCG would you suggest between now and then?*
> 
> I would think it is pointless to pay all that money only to have you toss in a spanner into the mix.
> 
> *I agree, if I thought it was imminent I wouldnt of started this cycle, I am kind of annoyed at myself now for a, possibly jeopardising the IVF and b, wasting 2 weeks gear!* :whistling:
> 
> Your sperm may be ok now, but over time it no doubt will become compromised.
> 
> HMG might be the best bet here, but androgens will be high anyway.
> 
> *Excuse my ignorance but what is HMG?* :confused1:


----------



## hackskii

Human Menopausal Gonadotropins

It basicly is 75iu FSH and 75iu LH, and it comes in 150iu each too.

For your sperm to be good, you need intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), FSH, and LH.

Right now, no doubt your LH and FSH are going to be low, this stops the nuts from making sperm and ITT specifically, which stops the sperm from maturing (sort of), and FSH (lack there of) will stop the sperm process too.

Personally I would get off now, and re-schedule the appointment, no sense in waisting your time on a compromise, you are lowering your odds here, and if she is having dificulty getting pregnant then id say you need to do what you need to do to make this happen.

HCG would be a good idea, you will get the nuts to make testosterone and ITT with that, but FSH will be low and withough some HMG you might have a comprmoise even still.

Now if you were clear of the androgens, then clomid and HCG should work well.

But, being on cycle this is just a crap shoot.


----------



## slype

hackskii said:


> Human Menopausal Gonadotropins
> 
> It basicly is 75iu FSH and 75iu LH, and it comes in 150iu each too.
> 
> For your sperm to be good, you need intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), FSH, and LH.
> 
> Right now, no doubt your LH and FSH are going to be low, this stops the nuts from making sperm and ITT specifically, which stops the sperm from maturing (sort of), and FSH (lack there of) will stop the sperm process too.
> 
> Personally I would get off now, and re-schedule the appointment, no sense in waisting your time on a compromise, you are lowering your odds here, and if she is having dificulty getting pregnant then id say you need to do what you need to do to make this happen.
> 
> HCG would be a good idea, you will get the nuts to make testosterone and ITT with that, but FSH will be low and withough some HMG you might have a comprmoise even still.
> 
> Now if you were clear of the androgens, then clomid and HCG should work well.
> 
> But, being on cycle this is just a crap shoot.


I've just re-scheduled the appointment for the following Friday which will be 2 wks and 2 days since my last jab. It will also give me an extra week to sort out and take the HCG and/or HMG, clomid etc.

very briefly Hackskii, and I apreciate your advice on this btw, could you list what you would suggest I take between now and then? I appreciate you are only giving advice and may or may not be an expert on this but you seem a lot more helpful and informative than most.. :thumbup1:


----------



## sbeast007

i dont understand why u have kept doing cycles if u have been trying for a baby mate?

ur only making it harder to concieve


----------



## hackskii

Sure mate, if it was me, I would start some HCG right now, and I also would be running an AI with that, estrogen is terribly supressive.

You can take some nolva with the HCG but you wont need much because the switch just briefly got switched off, so something like 4 shots of 500iu or 5 shots should be more than enough.

Nolva 20mg ED

Clomid for the two weeks too @ 100mg ED.

If it is going to work, that would get you close, if you had some HMG in there chances are it would be a bit better due to tha added benefits of the FSH (you need that for your sperm).

but if you have not pulled one off in a while the residual left over will probably work fine.

Guys that get vasectomy's still can get women pregnant till the new ejaculation fluids come down the pipe....lol


----------



## slype

hackskii said:


> Sure mate, if it was me, I would start some HCG right now, and I also would be running an AI with that, estrogen is terribly supressive.
> 
> You can take some nolva with the HCG but you wont need much because the switch just briefly got switched off, so something like 4 shots of 500iu or 5 shots should be more than enough.
> 
> Nolva 20mg ED
> 
> Clomid for the two weeks too @ 100mg ED.
> 
> If it is going to work, that would get you close, if you had some HMG in there chances are it would be a bit better due to tha added benefits of the FSH (you need that for your sperm).
> 
> but if you have not pulled one off in a while the residual left over will probably work fine.
> 
> Guys that get vasectomy's still can get women pregnant till the new ejaculation fluids come down the pipe....lol


Thanks for the advice Hackskii, its been much appreciated. :beer:


----------



## Tyronex

Afternoon all, hope you don't mind me jumping in here. My missus and I have been trying for 10 years, 2 miscarriages, 1 ectopic later we are still trying. We have just started IVF.

Before we started IVF i had a sperm count to ensure that the problem wasn't with me. My results came back that I had a high count but with poor motility. About 65% were motile and healthy.

I started taking the following and my motility has improved in 3 months to 80% motility which is good.

Sperm boosting pills cocktail

MACA 2 x 500mg tabs once a day.

CO-Enzyme Q10 tablets - 1 x 30mg once a day

Selenium A.C.E tablets 1 tablet once a day

Garlic Pills 1 x 1200mg tablet once a day

1000mg L-Arginine once a day.

The L-Arginine and Maca also caused countless erections which helps if you are trying naturally!

Good luck fellas, of you try this I hope it works for you.


----------



## brownie

Slype,.. I don't mean to be rude here, but it is very selfish to be running a cycle while trying for a baby. your wife will now embark on a cocktail of drugs to shut down her menstrual cycle and then go on puragon to hyper stimulate,.. then go under sedation for egg collection, then possibly steriods to improve implantation etc, etc. you get the point.

You have a responsibility to get yourself in as good a shape as possible. it is good that you aare doing that now, and if you follow Hackskiis advise you should be ok.


----------



## TaintedSoul

Excellent thread here guys. And congrats to those that have succeeded in having a baby.

Just reading this extract from a male fertility test site:

A couple are considered infertile if pregnancy does not occur after 12 months of unprotected intercourse.

Now I'm assuming that is unprotected off the pill sex and trying for a baby? Not on the pill unprotected sex and shagging when the urges arises?

I've been doing two courses a year since being with my fiance and about to embark on a 6 month blast/cruise before coming off for as long as it takes to get her pregnant?


----------



## Kazza61

Great thread.

I too have given a committment to the Missus to stay off the gear until she is pregnant but 6 months have passed already without success (A few scornful looks coming my way though!)

I'm quite a bit older than her (48/30) and I'm sure my age, the gear (Which I used 20 years ago and then again last year) and some past years of smoking haven't helped.

To be honest I didn't really want another kid as I have one from a past marriage but it was becoming a make or break issue in this relationship so I decided it was time to stop faking the orgasms and try and make her happy.

However, as a slightly (very?) selfish aside, I wondered whether anyone has given any serious thought to any other gym enhancing agents that can be taken without affecting fertility? Clenbuterol for instance? Other recommendations? Would be interested to hear people's views.

Good luck to all in their efforts to replicate! (I guess that really is body building in it's purest sense!)


----------



## Big Boy

After reading the whole thread!! i jus had to come on and mail... i think this site really is a gold mine of info and would like to thank the many members who share there experiances!!! im sure the many threads and posts in, not jus this post are very personal............ but they really do go along way in helping ALOT of people!!!!!!!! well done everyone great thread great forum!!!! :rockon:


----------



## dman

i remember reading about this study, where a guy and a girl were trying for a baby, but unsuccessfull for many years. after seeing the doctors, tests were done on the male, he had minor gyno and really low LH, anyway there doctors supposedly prescribed arimidex for a period of 3 months after the 3 month period his LH was supposedly around 15.8 and they finally found success. I havnt been to the doctors to find out if im infertile but i also have low LH and have been unsuccessfull in managing to impregnate my women, the doc sed its within the limits so its ok but if u ask me if being in the limit by .1 is ok then he's a retard. i have been thinking about self medicating a low dose of arimidex for a number of weeks and then getting blood work done. what do you guys think? should i just go to the doc's and get sperm tested? i take this subject very seriously and have been hurt many times by false hopes. any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

Young guys can have lower LH and nice T levels.

Older guys can have higher LH levels and lower T levels.

Those with low T levels can have higher LH levels as the body is trying to elivate testosterone, but if a man has compromised leydig cell function, the lower T levels will be present.

But, yes you are right, if estrogen is elivated it can compromise testosterone levels.


----------



## brownie

Puregon (FSH) + Luveris (LH) + Decapeptyl (GhRH)

my wife and I am in the middle of IVF treatment at the mo.

these are some of the drugs that will be left over. Does any one know how one could use these drugs as part of a PCT or possibly during a cycle to prevent Atrophy.

I found this artical on puregon and if my computer stops crashing i will read up on the others

quote


Top








Abstract

Materials and Methods

Results

Discussion

References



A multicenter, open-label, randomized efficacy and safety study was performed with combined human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and recombinant follicle-stimulating hormone (recFSH) (Puregon®) treatment to induce spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic hypogonadal male patients. Patients were pretreated for 16 weeks with hCG to normalize testosterone levels. A total of 30 of 49 (61%) subjects had normalized testosterone levels but were still azoospermic after the hCG-alone phase. These patients were randomized into 2 treatment schemes with recFSH (2 x 225 IU recFSH per week [group A] or 3 x 150 IU recFSH per week [group B]), in combination with hCG for a period of 48 weeks. Total testosterone increased during the hCG-alone period from 1.08 and 1.22 ng/mL to 6.26 and 4.52 ng/mL for groups A and B, respectively. Combined gonadotropin treatment was effective in inducing spermatogenesis (sperm count ≥1 x 106/mL) in 14 of 30 subjects (47%) and this was achieved after a median duration of treatment of approximately 5.5 months. Treatment time necessary for first sperm cells to appear in the ejaculate was related to the initial testicular volume. Subjects with a history of maldescended testes (11 of 30 subjects, 37%) showed a lower mean response to treatment as indicated by the relatively lower number of subjects reaching levels of at least 1 x 106 sperm cells per milliliter. Combined testicular volume increased during combined gonadotropin treatment from 11.4 to 24.0 mL. Although subjects with a history of maldescended testes had a lower starting testicular volume, subjects with and without a history of maldescended testes showed approximately the same relative increase in testicular volume. Total testosterone levels showed only a minor further increase during the combined gonadotropin treatment period. In conclusion, a weekly dose of 450 IU (3 x 150 IU or 2 x 225 IU) recFSH, in addition to hCG, was able to induce spermatogenesis in many hypogonadotropic azoospermic men who failed to respond to treatment with hCG alone.


----------



## brownie

This is a link to a site about Puregon (FSH), it is very interesting how this drug works. my wife has been on it for 10 days now to stimulate her ovaries to produce eggs for IVF, and it has worked very well she produced 26 folicals, a lot if you think a women only produces 1 per month.

However this drug is also very usefull for men suffering from testicular atrophy

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/full/24/4/604


----------



## hackskii

Yes, I can see how this would be of use myself.

Although not only have I not heard of these drugs, I would not know how to supplement my PCT.

The Luveris (LH) likely would not be necessary if one already had HCG, not sure about the price and we cant discuss it here but Id bet it is more expensive than HCG.

Ok, looks like recombant FSH or rFSH, the doses were 225 IU twice weekly, and 150 IU recFSH 3 times a week.

So, this is very similar to HMG which is either 75/75 LH/FSH or 150/150 LH FSH, so the dosing is the same which sounds fine to me.

So, you can use HCG and the rFSH with no problems and no doubt it will be very helpful here.

That stuff has to be expensive though....., and no doubt harder than hell to find for us gear heads.


----------



## sbeast007

had our 2nd scan yeterday and we found out we are having a girl lol im still abit shocked 1st time round we had a boy so we will have one of each now.


----------



## brownie

congrats mate, girls apparently are easier. well that is until the hit puberty..

we have just completed IVF and did a test saturday... and thankfully it was positive.. as i have said before our big problem is miscarriages and holding on to them. we are 2 weeks on from when the empryos were put back in, so we have to wait until another 2 weeks (which will be 6 weeks) to find out if it is twins or just one...

And fingers croosed we can hold on to them


----------



## sbeast007

congrats also then mate be keeping fingers crossed for u.

god knows how ill cope when she gets to tha age when its boys boys boys lol


----------



## mrmasive

To read later


----------



## stevebaker

Ok this is prob a stupid question but am gona ask it anyway.

I havent took any gear since december 2007 when i ruptured my bicep tendon. I came off and crashed pretty bad, took me nearly 12 months to recover and get my levels back within range. well after nearly 20 months off gear i was thinking of doing a 10 week course.

i was planning on doing 500mg test e and 200mg deca per week with 500iu HCG e5d. would also be running adex e3d.

My question is... if i took a higher dose of test and deca would this affect how badly i shut down? is the higher the dose the worse you shut down or will it be the same no matter how much i take?

thanks guys


----------



## hackskii

With the deca absolutly, with the test not too bad.


----------



## stevebaker

so would it be better i just take test then hackskii?


----------



## hackskii

stevebaker said:


> so would it be better i just take test then hackskii?


Yes if you are worried about shutdown, or you can use the faster acting stuff NPP instead, but tren and deca really shut me down.

You will have to weigh if the shutdown is acceptable to the gains.


----------



## DNC

Great thread.Wish everyone the best of luck.

I'm a natural but have a low sperm count.30% of my sperm is good,so it's not the best.Anyone got any tips for me to raise this???

Thanks in advance


----------



## stevebaker

thanks hackskii, so probably better to just do 500-750mg test and and cut the deca! i been off for so long any amount of test will give me a huge boost anyway. if i run 500iu hcg E5D and either aromasin ed or adex e3d would this help keep shutdown to a minimum?

Anything else i can take to help keep shutdown to a minimum? i was gona add test prop EOD for last two weeks while test enathate clears my system, is this a good idea or would i be better to taper down on test e using 100mg per week for last 2-3 weeks?

any advice is apprecaited cheers


----------



## hackskii

Longer cycles would probably be a good idea to taper down to get rid of the androgen withdrawl.

When androgens are high for a long time you kind of reset your homeostasis, comming off even at levels that are normal one could crash.

An AI during is a good thing as estrogen is about 200 times more supressive than testosterone, so yah, good idea there.

Naltrexon is said to help avoid shutdown but that is quite new and I have never tried it so I really cant comment on it.

HCG I shoot twice a week @ 500iu to keep the nuts alive, this helps with recovery going into PCT.

I also run some HCG in the PCT as I notice it works best without the influence of the androgens supressing what little I am doing with the nuts.

They tend to respond very well using this practice I have found.


----------



## stevebaker

thanks hackskii!! apprecaite your help, only doing a 8-10 week course so wont need taper will i? whats best AI aromasin or adex as i have both


----------



## hackskii

No need to taper.

I dont rate aromasin myself, but maybe I got a bad batch, 12.5mg ED did not take the gyno symptoms away with me, but again it could be a bad batch (research site).

I like adex actually. .5mg E3D to start things off, if gyno flaires then just do EOD, if it flairs then do ED, if it flairs then up the dose and so on.

You will have to find what works for you as this will no doubt be a trial and error deal.


----------



## stevebaker

thanks for your help mate


----------



## Mr Incredible

It takes a perfectly normal couple 12 months on average of trying, bare that in mind


----------



## stevebaker

hackskii said:


> Naltrexon is said to help avoid shutdown but that is quite new and I have never tried it so I really cant comment on it.
> 
> HCG I shoot twice a week @ 500iu to keep the nuts alive, this helps with recovery going into PCT.
> 
> I also run some HCG in the PCT as I notice it works best without the influence of the androgens supressing what little I am doing with the nuts.
> 
> They tend to respond very well using this practice I have found.


has anyone got any more information on naltrexone?


----------



## hackskii

There is another link on professional muscle by a guy named max.

There is massive reading though.

I think PScarb might have tried this but not really sure of the outcome.

Sounds too good to be true to me though.

I dont understand how that could possibly work, but then gains it may, and it may not.


----------



## brownie

Just a quick post,.. we went for a six week scan last friday and we got a heart beat. so we are thrilled. the scan showed the size of the baby as six weeks and 4 days, even tho it was exactly 6 weeks ago that the eggs where fertilised.

We are going for another scan tomorrow,.. so fingers crossed that all is well, as it has been 5 years since any of the other pregnancys made it this far. but all the signs are good. ie no spotting, etc.

If we make it to twelve weeks i will relax a small bit.


----------



## sbeast007

best of luck mate i hope it works this time for you!!


----------



## hertderg

brownie said:


> Just a quick post,.. we went for a six week scan last friday and we got a heart beat. so we are thrilled. the scan showed the size of the baby as six weeks and 4 days, even tho it was exactly 6 weeks ago that the eggs where fertilised.
> 
> We are going for another scan tomorrow,.. so fingers crossed that all is well, as it has been 5 years since any of the other pregnancys made it this far. but all the signs are good. ie no spotting, etc.
> 
> If we make it to twelve weeks i will relax a small bit.


That's great news mate -I hope it all works out for you both this time.


----------



## brownie

Thanks guys,.. the scan was good. the embryo was the right size etc for 7 weeks. so we just got to make to next weeks scan now.


----------



## ml30

sbeast007 said:


> missis did a pregnancy test this morning and the result came back positive!
> 
> she did 2 to be on the safe side....we abit shocked but i dont know why seeing as we have been trying for nearly 8months lol
> 
> she hasnt phoned the nurse yet for a appointment she says she doesnt want to get her hopes up too much just incase.


Congratulations 

Just make sure she keeps the baby as well. The first 10 weeks are very delicate. No tight clothes, no alcohol, no heavy excercise. Keep her off the weights and feed her good nurtitions, no supplements. All the best, mate. Hope it'll go well for you.


----------



## brownie

i am at last delighted to say,.. we have made it to 13 weeks and things are looking good


----------



## Peter80

Congrats man! Real nice.


----------



## Cap'n Beefy

Behold, another happy tale.

Last jab in April. Shamefully no PCT meds until end of August, when had Clomid and Tamoxifen for a few weeks.

Now, after seven months of trying.......the wife is pregnant!! Hurrah!!

Perhaps of note, had also been taking:

zinc & vit c

fish oil capsules

selinium

vitamin e

And I kinda wonder whether lots of sex helped too!! 

How to celebrate. With 800mg of test of course!!! :thumb:

PS Had been "on" for 18 months, and am 37.


----------



## Peter80

Congrats man!

Me and the missus are trying to. I am off for 11 months now after being on for 2 years. I got my sperm tested 3 months back and had poor motility 6% where normal is 25%. Pituairy seems recoverd but T still low normal. Hope my fertility comes back soon. I am 29 btw.

I to hope to be posting here with some good news!!


----------



## sbeast007

great news guys well done!!

peter80- just give it time mate it will come in the end!


----------



## Peter80

sbeast007 said:


> great news guys well done!!
> 
> peter80- just give it time mate it will come in the end!


Yes still staying positive! (trying lol).


----------



## brownie

> Behold, another happy tale.
> 
> Last jab in April. Shamefully no PCT meds until end of August, when had Clomid and Tamoxifen for a few weeks.
> 
> Now, after seven months of trying.......the wife is pregnant!! Hurrah!!
> 
> Perhaps of note, had also been taking:
> 
> zinc & vit c
> 
> fish oil capsules
> 
> selinium
> 
> vitamin e
> 
> And I kinda wonder whether lots of sex helped too!!
> 
> How to celebrate. With 800mg of test of course!!! :thumb:
> 
> PS Had been "on" for 18 months, and am 37.


Nice one mate i hope all goes well


----------



## brownie

Peter80 said:


> Congrats man!
> 
> Me and the missus are trying to. I am off for 11 months now after being on for 2 years. I got my sperm tested 3 months back and had poor motility 6% where normal is 25%. Pituairy seems recoverd but T still low normal. Hope my fertility comes back soon. I am 29 btw.
> 
> I to hope to be posting here with some good news!!


Peter it only takes one mate... remember that...

we have been trying for 6 years and had 8 misscarriges.. when we did IVF we had 26 follicles to start with,... with that we only got 8 eggs,.. with that 4 fertilized,.. and they where left for 5 days in which 2 survived and they were put back in........

One made it,...

as i said it onnly takes one... Good luck


----------



## Peter80

Thanks man.

I guess you know how its is getting your hopes up every month and then the dissapointment when her period is there.


----------



## Ludwin

no problem of fecundity, righteous man of the hormonal problemes


----------



## brownie

Ludwin said:


> no problem of fecundity, righteous man of the hormonal problemes


What?????? :confused1:


----------



## Peter80

No luck this month. Same player shoots again. Trying for a year now.


----------



## Old but not out

Peter80 said:


> No luck this month. Same player shoots again. Trying for a year now.


Mate don t stress - when you T is fine you will be fertile again - I promise you

:thumb:


----------



## brownie

I just read this on Puregon (FSH),.. i have some of it left over from an IVF cycle, my wife used it. but i was thinking of throwing this in for my PCT

it's given to men to increase sperm count in IVF treatment, the usual dose is 150 IU given 3 times a week or 225 IU twice a week. Treatment is usually given for at least 3 to 4 months. It is usually given along with another medication, hCG.

i am going to try a shot or two, just to see how i get on with it.


----------



## tuna_man

Hey guys, im new to the forum and to roids, but the endocrinology of steroid use and reproductive endocrinology is an area i am interested in and plan to study in the future.

If I can be of any help to the bros in terms of offering any info i think may be worthwhile, if it helps fertility issues, i would be very pleased.

The first obvious thing to be done is to not touch any gear with a barge pole. Then, the size and firmness of testes should be measured. Technically, an orchidometer is used to measure testicular volume, but you can assess this for your self.

Most of the mass of the testis is developing sperm, so small testes mean barely any sperm production. FSH is needed to act at sertoli cells to help produce sperm (it gets complicated-it stimulates production of Androgen binding protein in the testes). Testosterone acts like a 'fertiliser' to the sperm, but it must be your own testosterone, intratesticular, as intratesticular test levels need to be way higher than blood test levels.

Using hCG to act as a LH analogue to stimulate intratesticular testosterone production by leydig cells, and using hMG (menotropins) or any other available FSH preparation will serve to stimulate sertoli cells. In this way, administration of these compounds can encourage testicular development and spermatogenesis.

By using clomiphene, the body's own LH and FSH production can be increased to couple the whole system.

By using the menotropins and hcg say 3x weekly for 75iu HMG and around 1000iu HCG, for 4 (or even 8) weeks this can help regenerate testicular mass and spermatogenesis.

Be careful not to induce gynecomastia from the compounds, keep nolvadex on hand, but even nolvadex may affect the testis directly.

Clomid at 50mg/day for 1 month of using the hCG and hMG, then increase to 100mg/day for 10 days following cessation of hCG and hMG, then use 50mg/day for a further 10-15 days. As i said keep nolva on hand and you may need to use it. I dont think using 10-20mg/day throughout would do much harm.

Also, take zinc at 30-45mg every night. And eat lots of fruit and veg, good healthy fats, even some healthy saturated fats. Go for natural peanut butter, extra virgin olive oil (uncooked), whole eggs (the yolks are very important). And dont overdo it in the gym, cut back on training for this important period. And ejaculate as much as possible during the recovery, as this is supposed to help recovery.

Remember, sperms take months to form, so after such a protocol, a month or two later sperm count should be very healthy I think.

The above information is not intended to diagnose or treat, it is just some thoughts I have had regarding AAS induced oligospermia/azoospermia. You could try discussing it with a doctor, show him this info if you want, but I realise that most doctors and endocrinologists in this country know jack s*** about endocrinology of steroid use/abuse. Either way, If i had a low sperm count I would consider something like above, but blood tests before and after, particularly T, LH, FSH would help a lot, as well as a sperm test a month or two after.

Even then, a method of increasing conception rat after the procedure above is to monitor when your partner will ovulate, and make sure you havent ejaculated for at least 2-3 days before an attempt at conception is made. This is underrated, but can help if sperm is low/moderately low.

As for mesterolone, it may help if sperm count has recovered a bit, but im not entirely sure about it. If all else fails, it may be worth a try.

I hope the information above just gives you guys food for thought, and it should show you that all is not doomed, there are many possible solutions.

Your sperm count may even simply need time to recover, and time is the best healer as they say.

Good Luck.


----------



## Peter80

Thanks man. Nice read.


----------



## kirkelliott

whats u guys take on Longjack ?? (tong kat ali)


----------



## hackskii

kirkelliott said:


> whats u guys take on Longjack ?? (tong kat ali)


Aftershock loves it.


----------



## sbeast007

my wife had our second child 10:45am christmas morning.....little girl so im gonna have my hands full in the years to come lol


----------



## dannyboy01

i've been clean for nearly 18 months now. i ran a good pct after last cycle of tren-e and sust using clomid, proviron and hcg. my last sperm count in november '09 came back with 53 million sperm and everything else fine except motilty was a little on the low side. wife has had every check done now including an hsg scan and she has no problems either. her periods are pretty much spot on and we use a "clearblue" ovulating monitior daily. i've got another sperm test on 1st april, but this time with the private clinic we are using for IVF.

since i've been clean i've wondered if a short 6 weeker of say prop and var would make a lot of difference to sperm count, especially if i added in hcg, proviron and adex? i know this may sound selfish but it's purely a thought at the moment, nothing more.....


----------



## sbeast007

i wouldnt bother mate u must be sooo close now its gotta be just around the corner.......u making sure ur doing it enough


----------



## dannyboy01

i know mate, so flipping tempting, my little box of treats calls my name daily lol. truth is after all this time i wouldn't do it. haven't got the bottle, if the wife found out she'd cave my head in, and i aint a small bloke either!


----------



## sbeast007

lol yeh i was the same when we were trying an i was off for 6months so can only imagine how u must feel mate.

i just tried to console myself by buying bits at a time till i had a stash that would make a supplier happy lol


----------



## Old but not out

dannyboy01 said:


> i've been clean for nearly 18 months now. i ran a good pct after last cycle of tren-e and sust using clomid, proviron and hcg. my last sperm count in november '09 came back with 53 million sperm and everything else fine except motilty was a little on the low side. wife has had every check done now including an hsg scan and she has no problems either. her periods are pretty much spot on and we use a "clearblue" ovulating monitior daily. i've got another sperm test on 1st april, but this time with the private clinic we are using for IVF.
> 
> since i've been clean i've wondered if a short 6 weeker of say prop and var would make a lot of difference to sperm count, especially if i added in hcg, proviron and adex? i know this may sound selfish but it's purely a thought at the moment, nothing more.....


It would make a huge difference, testosterone has been demonstrated to be an excellent male contraceptive (as we all know) and 6 weeks has been demonstrated to be more than enough time for it to exert its influence. It would alos likely shut down your HPTA and your own sperm won t begin to recover until around 60 days after testosterone recovers - don t do it


----------



## hackskii

Lets not forget that you have many loads in the pipes that are still fertile even though you are not...lol

When my buddy got a vasectomy the doc said 20 ejaculations before sex.


----------



## dannyboy01

dont worry, i'm not going to attempt on running a cycle, just going to concentrate on getting bd% right down ready for when i can go back on.


----------



## Trenzyme

after reading this threading my head hurts ..lol

after 3 years of cycling and cruising (with odd few 1000ius of hcg evey now and then ) would i have to come off to get my gf pregnant or would staying on 250mg test ew and adding hcg hmg and proviron help get my swimmer back up and running,

cheers


----------



## brownie

dannyboy01 said:


> dont worry, i'm not going to attempt on running a cycle, just going to concentrate on getting bd% right down ready for when i can go back on.


best of luck mate.

We are expecting our first after 7 years trying and 8 miscarriages. it was conceived using IVF and immunotherapy.

However i know what its like trying, month after month after month. but stick with it. i often used to start a cycle when my wife got pregnant and then 6 weeks in she would lose it. it was devastateing. but i would stop immediatly and run PCT, and start all over again. i built up another supply and wait agian month after month, checking the ovulation strips, then doing the preg tests. Fcuking nightmare.

But haveing a baby was always more important to me, this was my ultimate goal.

This is a waiting game, and there is nothing in life that will test your patients like this.

keep us posted


----------



## Old but not out

Trenzyme said:


> after reading this threading my head hurts ..lol
> 
> after 3 years of cycling and cruising (with odd few 1000ius of hcg evey now and then ) would i have to come off to get my gf pregnant or would staying on 250mg test ew and adding hcg hmg and proviron help get my swimmer back up and running,
> 
> cheers


What you need to do depends on wether your testosterone production is up to scratch after a PCT. If this is ok then in theory your natural levels of fertility will return in a few months or so. There will be a direct relationship between how high your (natural) testosterone goes and your level of fertility (as long as FSH secretion exists).


----------



## dannyboy01

cheers brownie.


----------



## Trenzyme

Old but not out said:


> What you need to do depends on wether your testosterone production is up to scratch after a PCT. If this is ok then in theory your natural levels of fertility will return in a few months or so. There will be a direct relationship between how high your (natural) testosterone goes and your level of fertility (as long as FSH secretion exists).


so i would have to come off?

cheers


----------



## Old but not out

You can stay on and use hCG and HMG or come off and recover


----------



## round 2

could not be bothered to red all posts sorry! but dorian yates had a little girl in 2001.So if it hasnt knackered him i dont think its poss!(joke) he has just been sensible i suppose.


----------



## brownie

this is the result of my seven year battle, and omg is he worth it.


----------



## sbeast007

congrats mate looks gawjuss!


----------



## hackskii

I love babies, they smell so clean (not the diaper stuff:lol, I also like the sounds they make when they are feeding.

That brought back memories.


----------



## brownie

I'll have him out in the gym with me in a few weeks.


----------



## dannyboy01

nice 1 brownie. my wife and i have had our first consultation last week at the surrey health center, a private clinic. got to say they really do treat you well, not like any normal hospital, everything regarding IVF has been explained. we go back on the 4th may for another appointment with the nurse regarding meds etc. had to do a sperm analysis and got results back at the consultation. doctors were more than happy with my results, i am producing 110 mil sperm, and motility, morphology etc are more than fine. so fingers crossed for the near future.


----------



## brownie

dannyboy01 said:


> nice 1 brownie. my wife and i have had our first consultation last week at the surrey health center, a private clinic. got to say they really do treat you well, not like any normal hospital, everything regarding IVF has been explained. we go back on the 4th may for another appointment with the nurse regarding meds etc. had to do a sperm analysis and got results back at the consultation. doctors were more than happy with my results, i am producing 110 mil sperm, and motility, morphology etc are more than fine. so fingers crossed for the near future.


Nice one Dannyboy,... thats a load off the mind at least..

great result 110mil,. so best of luck and remember it only takes 1.

We had 26 Follicles to harvest, and we got 8 eggs to try and fertilise,.. 4 fertilised, only 2 made it to plast stage,.. ( we were gutted with only 2) both were put back,.. and one survived


----------



## dannyboy01

i'll be keeping everyone upto date with progress. hope i'm as lucky as you brownie


----------



## Incredible Bulk

i'm heading out of my 8 week PCT plan and will soon be getting off the PCT meds.

i'll have a blood test done a few weeks later and hopefully my natty-t will be back up.

me and the missus are trying.


----------



## dannyboy01

best of luck IB


----------



## sam600

subscribing, loads to read.


----------



## Bignige

If its any use to any of the lads it took me and my ex 18 months to conceive, i come off my last course 18 months prior to conceiving, but one factor may have contributed was the fact i didnt use any pct as it was unnavailable at that current time !!

Ps... My baby girl is 4 on wednesday so it will happen just keep trying !! And lets be honest hell of a lot of fun too


----------



## Bgrills

This thread is ****ing amazing. Awesome success stories!!! Makes a man smile haha.


----------



## latitude

Would taking gh have any affect on fertility? i'm thinking about starting it but need to know will it affect me getting my wife pregnant.


----------



## Duc999

The wife & I are trying at the moment.

I came off Test in May ran an oral then a long pct of which I'm just finishing.

I went & dropped of a sperm sample today.

Wife goes for her tests on the 15th & I think we get the results the same day.

So I've got my fingers crossed we are both ok & it happens soon.

Going to stay off AAS until I get told I or my wife can't have kids or I knock the Mrs up.

Now I'll be doing research on peptides to try & maintain or even gain.


----------



## gooner fc

Just read this thread, and its put a smile on my face in knowing their is hope out their after using aas. Me and my misses are gonna start trying aswell but she does not know i've done aas, not gonna do another cycle until success (which is hopefully straight away).???


----------



## S.hen

\ said:


> Just read this thread, and its put a smile on my face in knowing their is hope out their after using aas. Me and my misses are gonna start trying aswell but she does not know i've done aas, not gonna do another cycle until success (which is hopefully straight away).???


I know mate it's been a concern of mine since reading this thread. It gets you thinking doesn't it?

My gf wants children next year too but I wanted to do a short burst soon. I can't decide if it's worth it or not.


----------



## latitude

hey guys, i've been off gear for 3 months now and my pct consisted of hcg,hmg,clomid,nova,proviron. I got tested this week and my results came back as follows- 30mil sperm count

45% motile (should be over 50%+)

anatomy 6% (should be 14+).

my doc seems to be abit of a clown when it comes to stuff like this, he had zero advise on how to improve the motily+anatomy, said clomid only worked with women and told me it could take 3 years with these results so just wondering if any yous guys have and advise on how to improve this and would yous consider these results really bad?

Thanks!


----------



## gooner fc

S.hen said:


> I know mate it's been a concern of mine since reading this thread. It gets you thinking doesn't it?
> 
> My gf wants children next year too but I wanted to do a short burst soon. I can't decide if it's worth it or not.


To be honest its not worth risking, have a baby first then think about aas. :beer:


----------



## hackskii

I would use some more clomid myself.

There is an over the counter product called Semenax, might look into that.


----------



## johnyboy

just thought id put my 10 pence worth in.

just competed in october and the shut down was v hard.did 15 wk diet.was on;

200mg decca ew

300mg tren ace ew

150mg winstrol ew

5iu gh eod

100mcg t3 ed

had a couple of weeks off then started pct.couldnt get any clomid so used;

wk 1.5000mg hcg mon,wed,fri and 20mg nolva ed.

wk2. onwards;1500 hcg eod,20mg nolve ed.

didnt do any test in the course and cut the decca out after tapering it off after wk 9.

its just started to work(prob 80%) down there.me and the missus want to try for our second after xmas so am staying off the gear till then.

would it be a good idea to use some proviron to give myself a little kick start.had my last shot hcg yesterday.any advice would be much apreciated.

from my experiance it seems if i take decca my fertility is v low.years ago i had an ex try to trap me near the end of the relationship when thing were going wrong.she was off the pilll for 6 months without telling me,i was on decca and winny at the time,labido was high but obviously fertility was low cause she didnt get caught(thank fck!).a couple of weeks after we split she got caught by her new fella.

when me and the missus was trying for our first i had just finished the same course,she didnt get caught(think the gear was still in my system).

after a v short pct(2 wekks of hcg)..........bobs ur uncle,shes in the club.

just hope it all goes well this time,thinking about competing again towards the end of next year but need to improve on my weak bits before i diet.

once again any advice on the proviron would be apreciated.

cheers john. :thumb:


----------



## mrmasive

If i were you, i would be using Proviron. I would also do things slightly different from this point on but i can't be ar$ed to post details :lol:

If you're interested just pm me :thumbup1:


----------



## MissBC

interesting thread  subscribed for next year hehehehehehehe


----------



## hackskii

mrmasive said:


> If i were you, i would be using Proviron. I would also do things slightly different from this point on but i can't be ar$ed to post details :lol:
> 
> If you're interested just pm me :thumbup1:


You can post it here.

You should not feel that you dont have to share, if something works it works even if it is for the person posting.


----------



## bayliss

i have never taken aas,but my spermcount was still low.i started zma,fishoil,200mg vit-c and activate xtreme,and now my count has more than dobbeld


----------



## hackskii

semanax is another supplement supposed to help sperm.


----------



## brownie

and don't forget Zinc


----------



## Ahal84

Sorry I have to ask. If I follow a proper procedure of PCT, on cycle support and be on gear(Im only interested in doing Epi and/or Anavar) just for 4 weeks. Does that mean I will have less chance of having low sperm count?

Thank you


----------



## Wannaberipped

Subscribed***

Mrs and I have decided to start trying next summer for a baby.

I'm current doing a 12-14 weeks cycle - 600mg test e / 360mg tri tren per week, due to finish end of jan.

This gives me 6 months to recover before we start trying.

Fingers crossed !!


----------



## Duc999

After all the tests we are going to need IVF the Mrs tubes are blocked.

So it's looking like the 1st week of Feb after her next period they are going to be removing some eggs from the Mrs.

She is then going to wait until June for the IVF. She is then covered for time off work and healthcare.

Now that I'm not really needed I'm just going to leave a few samples at the clinic then the mrs can

get on with it while I'm offshore working.

I had a sperm sample taken after the summer and 3+ months cooking my nuts riding the

Ducati in 30+ deg C weather in full leathers every day.

20 million sperms 50% motility compared to 45 million and 70% motility a few weeks ago.

I've to drop a sample off beginning of Feb again so I'll let you know if it continues to improve.

The Mrs was devastated when she found out she had the problem.

We can at the moment only afford one try of IVF, so We are hoping they get lots of eggs and can freeze them

for a later try.

Plus its cheeper just to implant the harvested eggs than harvesting them.

Plus health insurance doesn't cover IVF. However it does cover some of the doctors costs & the hospital brakes it down

as much as possible for accounting & insurance.

Good luck to everybody trying for kids.

I've Got my fingers crossed for twins.


----------



## hackskii

Twins?

Careful with what you wish for:lol:

My brother and myself put Mom through hell................lol


----------



## valleymentality

I got the mrs pregnant week 10 of a test e/deca cycle, 600mg/300mg. I used hcg throughout the cycle at 500i.u. every 3rd day, 50mg proviron and and 20mg tamox. Kept my balls full and load large and the easiest transition through pct I have ever had. Read an article that said its better to stop testicular atrophy rather than trying to recover the size end of cycle.


----------



## knightrider

In order to increase sperm count and mobility how long would you need to be taking proviron for at say 50mg aday? Cause im guessing it can get expensive..


----------



## andy12345

I hope my first post and link is well received into this fertility section. 

I already checked six pages so........

I find this link to an official journal article to be an educational read.

Unfortunately, it was only based on one male, who was morbidly obese....

Not quite fitting in here is it lol?

I must say that his total T levels did certainly not go very high in any way......(about 16nmols lol....)

http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v4/n7/full/ncpendmet0844.html

There is also a nice diagram showing the hormone negative feedback loops etc.

It makes it easier to understand the way that aromatase inhibitors, are meant to allow testosterone to naturally increase without the shrinkage and reduced sperm counts usually caused by Testosterone supplementation only. ( I expect that T alone is not much used anyway these days except for in hypogonadism on the NHS.)



> Treatment of male infertility secondary to morbid obesity 2008
> 
> The case
> 
> A 29-year-old man presented to a clinic with a low sperm count in the setting of morbid obesity. The patient and his healthy 32-year-old wife had been unable to conceive after more than 1 year of unprotected intercourse. The patient had been seen by an outside physician and had been diagnosed as having hypogonadism with a low sperm concentration of 2 million/ml (normal concentration greater than or equal to20 million/ml). At that time he was started on testosterone therapy, testosterone enantate 200 mg intramuscularly every 2 weeks, for hypogonadism. While the patient was on testosterone therapy, a repeat sperm collection showed a complete absence of sperm (indicating a sperm concentration < 2million/ml)


----------



## hackskii

Thanks for the link, a Dr. shippen has treated men with AI's to ballance out their hormones.

What is interesting though, being diagnosed hypogonadism with no sperm and after 4 months being on TRT basicly being on an AI allowed him to get her pregnant within 6 months.

That is pretty impressive as him being diagnosed and shut down, 6 month recovery is pretty good.


----------



## andy12345

It seems we would never know anything about the human body without "experiments"

Unfortunately, sometimes it all goes wrong and when they are financially driven, which I suppose all of them are, the true results get manipulated.

It's quite ironic to think that, to me, the group that knows and feels the reality of hormone manipulation, is the same one that is labelled roidragers, steroid abusers, angry people, criminals, drug dealers (sometimes)

Yet, the long established parasitic banks have torn a hole in this world like no other, which is one example of many.

You really couldn't make it up.  

__________

Oops, back to the topic.

I'm not so sure that long term overweight people should consider having children until they have at least managed some degree of weight loss and stability to enable a good start for the baby.

You have to build the bridge before you cross it.

After all, having a baby is surely a real drain on lifeforce and energy for at least 4-5 years after conception, or more...

Obviously, the patient was still producing but he was considered hypogonadic. If he was producing 0 sperm, 0 Testicular T and only surviving through the T of his adrenal glands, I wonder if his hypogonadism would have been reversible?


----------



## hackskii

Kids might be a drain "or" an inspiration, "within" the same breath.

Nice perspective bro, you are a thinker I can see.

I see drain more on bad decisions more than anything else.

It is reversible.

What if he lost weight and had less aromataze activity?

Thus more endo testosterone.

Less bellyfat.

More muscle.

More activity?

Less bodyfat and less aromatase activity?

Thus more testosterone and more activity, and more sexual activity due to better hormonal profile?

What if after he lost weight gained muscle and had more confidance?

Not everyone would have this condition.


----------



## hackskii

kind of buzzed................. :lol:


----------



## Gee-bol

currently trying for a baby with my girlfriend...during a 800mg test cycle,really dont wanna 'come off' the gear if i can help it,been blast cruising for the last couple of years.

using 500iu hcg every 3 days and 250mg proviron ed...no luck as of yet,anyone else have experience of conceiving whilst being on cycle?


----------



## hackskii

I think you should consider comming off if you want kids.

HCG does very little for FSH.


----------



## bmc

Just to add my 2 pence worth

I had low test and couldn't get the gf pregnant,we tried for months then I started a test/deca cycle with adex and proviron at 50mg ed and she was pregnant within the first month


----------



## tpeter

bmc said:


> Just to add my 2 pence worth
> 
> I had low test and couldn't get the gf pregnant,we tried for months then I started a test/deca cycle with adex and proviron at 50mg ed and she was pregnant within the first month


lol she got preg while you were on cycle?


----------



## will-uk

I have a 3 year old son, he was from a one night stand, i was on sus and deca at the time too.....

im now in a relationship, currently on equitest and tri tren, and she came off the pill around 3 months ago.... Nothing....

Sods law some call it


----------



## Jay Walker

I bought one of these for testing myself. Been off since Feb, completed Hacks PCT, sex drive is okay, morning wood most days.

http://www.fertilityscore.co.uk/

Seems to be the only half decent home kit going. To b honest, its borderline for my result, but quite hard to interpret. I know I need to see a doc to get a proper test done on it.

No way Im taking any gear until I get myself sorted on this one, as we want kids soon.

Would proviron be a good addition to get things moving, if its still low after a proper analysis?

Appreciate any advice fella's.


----------



## Jay Walker

Thought I'd post up some results a friend of mine has had.

He had been on and off gear for many years, with no PCT as such ( i know, i know!)

Anyway, he finished his last course in dec last year and had a fertility check a few months back, came back so low it was virtually nothing.

Followed Hacks PCT, and 2 months later, his count is at 9 Million. Good progress, and its going the right way.

Need to get mine measured now! started 50mg of proviron 2 weeks ago, certainly feels good.


----------



## a184

gettingbigger said:


> Good topic this.
> 
> I will let you knwo my experience about this.
> 
> I have used on and off for around 10 years and have competed.
> 
> I decided I wanted to know how much damage I had done to myself as I wanted to start a family with my lass.
> 
> I knew it would be bad as she had never caught so I went to the docs and asked to be tested.
> 
> Well the results came back and they were bad.
> 
> I was told the average male has around 20 million sperms, I had 1 million.
> 
> The average male has around 50% of these that are fully working and strong swimmers, so about 10 million healthy ones. I only had 5% ( so around 50,000).
> 
> The doc told me that with only 50,000 instead of 1,000,000 swimmers, I had very little to no chance of conceiving naturally.
> 
> I was recommended to start ivf.
> 
> I have aksed for a re-test in 6 months, as I am off all meds now.
> 
> I am 4 months off thus far, and my nads are loads bigger.
> 
> My sex drive has also slowly returned so I am crossing my fingers.
> 
> I used some clomid at the start but decided to not use anything, as I did not want to mess with my axis any mor ethan it was already done, flipping it one way then the next.
> 
> As for being off, it`s cak!
> 
> I will be watching this thread and following it closely.


Thanks for sharing your experiences with us getting bigger, and congrats on bravely and openly sharing such personal info.

Ive read elsewhere on the forum that steroids affecting guy's ball size and fertility was a load of nuts (pardon the pun) so its really interesting to read that it actually does happen to people.

Hope u manage to conceive and all the best for the future.


----------



## glenzo75

TRT made me subfertile and then 'too few sperms to count' ie. clinically infertile.

A combo of Pregnyl and Menopur got my Sperm count normal since February and in June I tested a good count. Bingo my wife is pregnant since July.

The Pregnyl vials are 5000iu and I took 2 vials of 75iu Menopur both three times weekly (a bit high and too often IMO I would have preferred lower as they elevated my Testosterone to 70), however it did kick start my sperm production. I think with Pregnyl they can be made up and stored.

I've got quite a few of Pregnyl/Menopur left over (wish I had the money they're worth as Menopur costs a fortune).



jonti1leg said:


> this is definatly going on my subscribe items.... althoug ive only been using a few months, my wife and i are trying to conveive again..."babydancing" as she calls it at all the right times, testing with ovulation kits etc. i am worried that even my short term use of AAs will have impacted on my nads and sperm etc and although quite mild doseges i have been taking, can see noticable difference in my appearence. i am hoping that this thread will give me the info that can re-boost my sperm etc (although i have not had it tested yet ! ! male pride i think at the mo) ive heard that HCG and CLOMID should boost things back up to normal, along with Tribulis. But dont take that as advice, just what i heard and am hoping to get some good advice from here.
> 
> SUPERCELL..thanks for posting...ive been thinking bout posting something for a week or so but as you say...touchy subject for some...Genuine good luck to you and anyone else in the same predicament. Jon


----------



## hackskii

glenzo75 said:


> TRT made me subfertile and then 'too few sperms to count' ie. clinically infertile.
> 
> A combo of Pregnyl and Menopur got my Sperm count normal since February and in June I tested a good count. Bingo my wife is pregnant since July.
> 
> The Pregnyl vials are 5000iu and I took 2 vials of 75iu Menopur both three times weekly (a bit high and too often IMO I would have preferred lower as they elevated my Testosterone to 70), however it did kick start my sperm production. I think with Pregnyl they can be made up and stored.
> 
> I've got quite a few of Pregnyl/Menopur left over (wish I had the money they're worth as Menopur costs a fortune).


So, you took hMG 150iu 3 times a week and 5000iu HCG 3 times a week?

If this is so, did you get any gyno symptoms?


----------



## glenzo75

Correct, and no Gyno symptoms. Put Serum Test very high like 60+ and once 70 which I felt no better for. Have Gyno now though that I'm back on TRT and Dr won't prescribe Arimidex because "that's for women with Breast Cancer" (withing the NHS box and not looking outside of it.) I've ordered some but would be more confident it was was rx'd so I'm going to a lady Dr. that probably understands hormones (with women though). She may be able to take my point that on HCG my Estradiol was 75 pmol/l and now back on TRT it's 160 and I've some Gyno etc that I've mentioned on earlier post.


----------



## Wannaberipped

Wannaberipped said:


> Subscribed***
> 
> Mrs and I have decided to start trying next summer for a baby.
> 
> I'm current doing a 12-14 weeks cycle - 600mg test e / 360mg tri tren per week, due to finish end of jan.
> 
> This gives me 6 months to recover before we start trying.
> 
> Fingers crossed !!


Just to update, 2nd month trying nd mrs is pregnant, early days yet (5 weeks)

I did run peptides instead of gear in summer, not sure if that helped with fertility?


----------



## Wannaberipped

Hi, i have a question,

As above my mrs is pregnant and I've gone back on gear. Was thinking of doing a 9 month course with a 8 week cruise in the middle.

Will this affect fertility when we start trying for another in a couple of years? Im running 1000ui hcg per week and pct will be good + peptides.

Ive done a back to back cycle before for 24 weeks. Think i recover quite fast.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## PLer1290

I'm convinced that you can blast and cruise for years and still be fertile, even if you don't recover HPTA. Just go on a TRT dose and use HCG and HMG and some proviron and it should bring back fertility.


----------



## Jay Walker

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892728

An interesting read on the results of Proviron supplementation and sperm levels.


----------



## Fatstuff

Where can u get hmg from though?


----------



## hackskii

Yes you would benefit, it would spike FSH and LH to bump T levels.


----------



## hackskii

Anything as low as 25mg ED to 50mg.

You could run it for a month or even two months at 25mg ED


----------



## thoon

Hackskii very interesting thread one thing i would like to question i know glenzo has just touched on the subject but how would someone get on if they are on TRT with low sperm count ? surely the TRT dose would lower the Test levels and prevent sperm production ?

What would they do in there case

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

thoon said:


> Hackskii very interesting thread one thing i would like to question i know glenzo has just touched on the subject but how would someone get on if they are on TRT with low sperm count ? surely the TRT dose would lower the Test levels and prevent sperm production ?
> 
> What would they do in there case
> 
> Thanks


Well, about the only thing one could do would be to use HCG, and or HMG with it.

HMG would mimic both FSH and LH so the nuts would get some function.

You need 3 things for sperm to work well.

Intra-testicular testosterone (ITT)

follicle stimulating hormone (FSH)

luteinizing hormone (LH)

ITT is many times higher than serum testosterone.


----------



## thoon

hackskii said:


> Well, about the only thing one could do would be to use HCG, and or HMG with it.
> 
> HMG would mimic both FSH and LH so the nuts would get some function.
> 
> You need 3 things for sperm to work well.
> 
> Intra-testicular testosterone (ITT)
> 
> follicle stimulating hormone (FSH)
> 
> luteinizing hormone (LH)
> 
> ITT is many times higher than serum testosterone.


Thanks for that

So does Clomid raise FSH and LH or is LH raised by HCG

How would you dose 150iu of Hmg

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

thoon said:


> Thanks for that
> 
> So does Clomid raise FSH and LH or is LH raised by HCG
> 
> How would you dose 150iu of Hmg
> 
> Thanks


Clomid @ 100mg ED can double LH output and increase FSH by up to 50% within 5 to 7 days.

HCG mimics LH.

HMG is 150/150 LH/FSH so you can take it with your HCG if recovery is an issue.

The protocol would be different depending if one was going to recover or if one was to keep and maintain testicular function.

It would really depend on some factors if a guy was shutdown and trying to recover, or he is not shut down but wants to keep testicular function.

Me personally, if I wanted to have kids, I would not be on gear.

Some guys can take over a year to recover good sperm, some 18 months or even longer.

If kids are priority, gear should not be.


----------



## hackskii

Well, not sure, but it might be of help.


----------



## bmc

Well I'm back on it lol trying again at the moment I'm on my trt dose will be starting a cycle in January I'll let yous know how I get on


----------



## Jay Walker

Glad to hear mate, I'm sure they will give the numbers if you ask? I always have to quiz them for it!


----------



## Jay Walker

Jackhammer spec! Good luck bud.

Did you get sperm count done?


----------



## Jay Walker

Action required??? Is that reciprocating action?  lol


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

Hi, iv been reading your post and what a good read!! I wonderd if you could help me with my pct?

This is the cycle i plan on doing:

Stats:

Height: 5,9

Weight: 165 lbs

Bf: 10%

Wks 1-12 Test E 500mg/wk

Wks 1-10Tren E 400mg/wk

Wks 1-3 Anadrol 50mg/day

If you could help i would really appreciate it!

Thanks alot!


----------



## hackskii

HCG throughout at 500iu twice a week

Clomid and nolva for PCT

Wait 3 weeks from last jab and do your PCT, keep the HCG in till you start your PCT, use an AI throughout your cycle for estrogen management.


----------



## hackskii

Even with a good PCT your little swimmers would, or correctly put (could) be compromised.


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

thanks for the advice i have decided not to include tren in my cycle so would the oct/pct be the same as you have just mentioned?


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

Would some thing like this be sufficient? iv taken tren out of the cycle.

Wks 1-12 Test E 500mg/wk

Wks 1-3 Anadrol 50mg/day

OCT

Wks 1-12Adex 1mg ED

Wks 1-15 HCG 250i.u/Twice a week

PCT

Wks 15-19 Clomid 50mg ED

Wks 15-19 Nolvadex 20mg ED

thanks again


----------



## hackskii

I would up the HCG myself.


----------



## 809099

Hi guys me and the misses are trying for a baby with no luck so far. I have only ran 1 cycle which was test only at 600mgs a week for 10 weeks. I used HCG for 500ius a week and did proper pct for 4 weeks afterwards. I finished this cycle 4 months ago and the misses has been off the pill for 4 months aswell. I know this isnt long but I am keen to start another cycle but I don't want to ruin our chances even more...

What can I take to help speed things along lol.. proviron, hcg, clomid? Need advice! thanks guys.


----------



## hackskii

If you can keep and maintain an erection and libido is ok, and you are getting night time erections, and you feel fine then only clomid I would add.

HCG negativly affects sperm density, so Clomid at 100mg for 1 week, then 50mg for 4 to 5 weeks should be just fine.

ZMA would be good, L-Carnitine, among other things.

I think one was called seminex or something like that, do a search.

Not sure on proviron, some say yes, I dont know though.


----------



## Fatstuff

Does hcg permanently effect sperm density?


----------



## hackskii

Fatstuff said:


> Does hcg permanently effect sperm density?


No.


----------



## Ausxxl

hackskii said:


> No.


Hi I have almost read all of this great advice. The misus and I ahev been trying for 3 years. doing IUO, one miscarriage, nothing wwrong with her apparently, my sperm count went from 16mil at its lowest to 60 mil now down to 1.6 again ( ahd food poisoning day of the test.

my plan is to try and beome a fertility farmer as Ulter put it. Compounds will be hGH, hmG and clomid. Still fine tuning my protocol from sudying this thread and other resources.

My Question is, I see AI's like Arosmasin mentioned occasiionally as helpful and being added in. Should i add that in? Have not cyccled aas in last 2 years.

So should I ad in Aromasin, and Proviron aswell as some also say, I always thouht proviron was repressive? thank you mates


----------



## 3752

I think using to many compounds at once confuses the body, my sperm count and motility shot through the roof when I used a combination of HCG and high doses of pro iron per day


----------



## Fatstuff

was this completely off cycle p?


----------



## 3752

Both back in 2005/6 I was off for 11months after high dose cycle lasting 18months, then last year I did the same protocol but with a lower provision dose and conceived on cycle(tren cycle)


----------



## Ausxxl

*Lets talk getting horny - to impregnate wife during ovulation ( me not you)! *

At 38 yrs old i cant do it 3+x day anymore. Once every two days is what im good with. Just started hcg.

Been on clomid few months.

Fertility sepecialist says we MUST do the deed all day whilst ovulating. Not once or twice every 2 days.

Tried viagra second night but couldnt bust a nut for about 45 mins or more. Its causing a lot of tension "you dont find me attractive anymore" type ****.

I know my T must be low. Never a heavy gear user tho.

how the F can i be super fertile - and super horny - with no real natty test at the same time at this age? Wish i knew this when i was 23.

My ideas:

1 take high dose proviron in the week leading to ovulation. Then end immediatly after. Just afraid of some suppression.

2 my preferred, take one or half a 100 mg shot of t suspension day 1 only, to last through the next three days for libido purposes only.

Will one single shot of susp every one month cause any serious shutdown or damage to swimmers for next cycle? Shouldnt it clear totally in 1-2 days?

I prob sound like a retard but phycologically its torture knowing you have to perform but the body wont work bc so little test. Getting depressed about it all

Any idea on the test susp. or in general much appreciated. Will post on fertility board too bc know there some good fellas there too.

Thank you mates


----------



## hackskii

There are other things that can bump stuff natty, L-arginine being one, zinc another, and there is an over the counter supplement for men that can be of help.


----------



## j_t

hackskii said:


> There are other things that can bump stuff natty, L-arginine being one, zinc another, and there is an over the counter supplement for men that can be of help.


Can ghrp and cjc boost sperm count?


----------



## Ausxxl

Pscarb said:


> I think using to many compounds at once confuses the body, my sperm count and motility shot through the roof when I used a combination of HCG and high doses of pro iron per day


Pscarb

Someone mentioned you re this issue in another of my threads, saying you had good success.

If you don't mind, could you please tell me what your proviron daily dose was and what the duration of treatment was?

This would be a great help to me.

PS: any preference on proviron brand - pharma?

Thanks.


----------



## Cognos

Hi Guys,

*

I'm been reading this thread and thought I would join and ask for some advise if that's ok ?

*

I have done some cycles over the last 2 years (I can detail further if needed) and have always PCT'd afterwards with some Nova, Clomid and HCG but maybe I've not paid enough attention to the PCT as much as I should of ?

*

My girlfriend and I decided to try for a baby last year so I PCT'd and have not touched any gear for 7 months but we've not had any success yet.

*

I've had x2 SA tests done over the past few months from my doctors which came back with the following :

*

Count : Very High

Mobility: Average

Morphology: Very Low

*

Also I still have an ocassional dull ache in my balls which is quite unusal, like what you get when you're PCT'ing.

*

I've never been offered a blood/hormone test by my doctors, despite me telling him about the above, he doesn't seem concerned about my AS use and has suggested we get referred to a fertility clinic so that both me and my other half can be tested further to see what treatement, if any, they advise. She appears to be ok so far, we're using ovualtion tests and a fertility monitor and her cycles are regular and have the necessary peaks but should be able to confirm that after tetsing.

*

In the meantime we've been trawling the net for info and have read very conflicing results online for the use of Clomid, Provirion and HCG in male fertility.*

*

I've started taking (@7 weeks now) zinc, folic acid, selenium, L-arginine and pycnogenol which have raised my morphology in the second SA (after @4 weeks) but it's still quite low&#8230;.I'm hoping after 90 days this will raise even more.

*

I know of 2 guys who have had problems conceiveing due to bad SA results and they have taken clomid, been successful and advised I try it&#8230;.although this is advise I am taking with a pinch of salt as it could just be coincidental and after spending 7 months clean I am a bit wairy of putting stuff back into my system without trying to identify a possible cause.

*

I've been told to trying to eat more fruit like blueberries, akai, raspberries for their anti oxidants and also cut out caffine.


----------



## IronPhil

Anyone know if orals like dbol can affect fertility? If done over several 4 week cycles?


----------



## hackskii

chilisi said:


> This a good read.
> 
> Clomid, to treat ogliospermia. ( low sperm count)
> 
> http://www.texasfertilitycenter.com/the-use-of-clomid-in-men/


Nice post:

Guys may need to take Clomid for at least 3-4 months to see the optimal effect, as *it takes 90-108 or so days from the time a sperm is made until it is ejaculated*.

So as you can see above, some of that residual sperm is still active for some time if one was to go on cycle.


----------



## Gary29

I got my ex pregnant whilst she was on the pill so I must have good swimmers. We had a termination unfortunately as it wasn't in anyone's best interests to continue with the pregnancy.

This is probably the side that concerns me the most with AAS though as my partner and I are looking to start a family in the next few years but I'm also going to do my first proper AAS cycle in the next few months.


----------



## Guest

> Will one single shot of susp every one month cause any serious shutdown or damage to swimmers for next cycle? Shouldnt it clear totally in 1-2 days?
> 
> I prob sound like a retard but phycologically its torture knowing you have to perform but the body wont work bc so little test. Getting depressed about it all
> 
> Any idea on the test susp. or in general much appreciated. Will post on fertility board too bc know there some good fellas there too.


right before i solicit advice i must disclaim that i know v.little about fertility as such, but i would like to add that i have heard of people doing 1 shot of test susp PER DAY, and recovering because its out of your system than quick.

i dont if i can post this link here, but please take it down if not; http://testosteronemuscle.co.uk/anabolic-steroids-prohormones-23/testosterone-suspension-aquaviron-rate-7443/

if i remember correctly someone in this thread used test prop e4d, and fully recovered , so i can see you using test susp will have any negative impact upon hpta, but like i say, this is not from experience just from what i have read, hope this helps


----------



## hackskii

BigAndy said:


> right before i solicit advice i must disclaim that i know v.little about fertility as such, but i would like to add that i have heard of people doing 1 shot of test susp PER DAY, and recovering because its out of your system than quick.
> 
> i dont if i can post this link here, but please take it down if not; http://testosteronemuscle.co.uk/anabolic-steroids-prohormones-23/testosterone-suspension-aquaviron-rate-7443/
> 
> if i remember correctly someone in this thread used test prop e4d, and fully recovered , so i can see you using test susp will have any negative impact upon hpta, but like i say, this is not from experience just from what i have read, hope this helps


You should have read the whole thread, there was a bunch of stuff added along with the prop that were in the mix.

The idea is simple, testosterone rises and falls due to the circadian rhythm, if it is in and out, the body just sees it as a spike and that is ok.

If there is constant levels above normal range or even with normal range, pituitary will not send signals to the testicles to produce testosterone and sperm.

Pulsing is nothing new, it can be done with orals or fast acting esterless gear.

But although recovery is possible with the use of steroids and SERMS this is nothing new, the mix of drugs on that thread has everything including the kitchen sink:lol:

I know a duch endo doctor that puts his guys on 65mg of testosterone cypionate a week and uses 20mg nolva ED for months on end for his guys to recover.

That is ok, but you can get there much faster using a PCT that involves HCG, and SERMS.


----------



## topolm

Hackskii, could you please share your thoughts?

Ok, so I want to recover my fertility...

Looks like I need to get of test prop completely. I have been using mild doses of test prop 350-400mg for 48 months. No pct. Balls have not shrunk much. But are a little soft. Is this a good sign?

Could I run a protocol where I start running hcg 2x a week 500iu per dose along with an hrt dose of 200mg test per week which would be tapered to 100mg per week with continued hcg usage at two 500 unit doses per week to increase testicular size over a 4-5 month period?

If so, I would then go on hacksii pct protocol Jan 2013 (and add in HMG since I need FSH to stimulate sperm production ) to recover hpta, hopefully normal test levels and begin fertility recovery.

After this, wait for sperm count to go up over an 18 month time frame. My fiance and I want to try for kids by end of 2014.

Do a lot of guys completely disintegrate muscle wise when they go off completely after several years of steroid use, albeit with a solid pct like hackskiis?

Also, does anyone know where I can get hmg? I'm in Texas.

Thanks...


----------



## hackskii

chilisi said:


> It would be better IMO to stop all AAS and run a power pct now, being shutdown for 48mobtjs is a long time. Get your bloods done in around 2-3 months after to see where your at.


This is what I would do but add in some HMG with your HCG.

The little stimulation of the 500iu shots wont do much, and if it does it would take some time.

Remember you have been on a long time, fertility may take some time.


----------



## topolm

hackskii said:


> This is what I would do but add in some HMG with your HCG.
> 
> The little stimulation of the 500iu shots wont do much, and if it does it would take some time.
> 
> Remember you have been on a long time, fertility may take some time.


Ok, Read another thread about a young guy who ran trt for 3 years.

Would it be ok to run exactly what he did?

45 Day protocol:

1.HCG: - 2500iu EOD for 16days (20000iu total)

2.HMG: 150iu eod for 16 days (1200iu total)

3.Nolva: 20mg/day 45 days; (tapering off after the 45days by halfing the dose every 5 days)

4.Clomid: two 50mg tabs per day for 30 days

5.Aromasin: 12.5mg/day (add this because it can boost test levels by 60%?)

6. IGF-1 LR3: 50mcg 5 days on 2 off for 45 days (Is IGF-1 LR3 really useful in my case?)

7. 1,000iu Vitamin E/day (How long?)

8. 5,000iu Vitamin D3/day (How long?)

9. 25mg DHEA/day (How long?)

10. 10 grams Fish Oil/day (How long?)

Questions:

1.Should I get blood work before I do this?

2.Should I get blood work 10 days into this? Should it also include triglycerides, Thyroid function in addition to blood chem and hormone levels?

3.What do I do if after 10 day endogenous test levels not at 400ng/dl? Just continue?

4.After 16 days of HMG and HCG how long could it take for sperm levels to restore? Two years max?? Would I need to periodically use HMG again for additional testicular stimulation?

5.Will I mostly retain most of my gains with this PCT protocol?

6.Once I have completed this, would it be advisable to completely stay off any exogenous test until I am done have children?

7.Would aromasin be useful in this PCT? I had read that it can increase endogenous test levels by 60%. If so, could I use it indefinitely?

8. Since testosterone has been used as a reversible contraceptive, is my situation the same except for the fact that few people have been using it that long?

Thankyou very much Hackskii...


----------



## NO-IDEA

topolm said:


> Ok, Read another thread about a young guy who ran trt for 3 years.
> 
> Would it be ok to run exactly what he did?
> 
> 45 Day protocol:
> 
> 1.HCG: - 2500iu EOD for 16days (20000iu total)
> 
> 2.HMG: 150iu eod for 16 days (1200iu total)
> 
> 3.Nolva: 20mg/day 45 days; (tapering off after the 45days by halfing the dose every 5 days)
> 
> 4.Clomid: two 50mg tabs per day for 30 days
> 
> 5.Aromasin: 12.5mg/day (add this because it can boost test levels by 60%?)
> 
> 6. IGF-1 LR3: 50mcg 5 days on 2 off for 45 days (Is IGF-1 LR3 really useful in my case?)
> 
> 7. 1,000iu Vitamin E/day (How long?)
> 
> 8. 5,000iu Vitamin D3/day (How long?)
> 
> 9. 25mg DHEA/day (How long?)
> 
> 10. 10 grams Fish Oil/day (How long?)
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1.Should I get blood work before I do this?
> 
> 2.Should I get blood work 10 days into this? Should it also include triglycerides, Thyroid function in addition to blood chem and hormone levels?
> 
> 3.What do I do if after 10 day endogenous test levels not at 400ng/dl? Just continue?
> 
> 4.After 16 days of HMG and HCG how long could it take for sperm levels to restore? Two years max?? Would I need to periodically use HMG again for additional testicular stimulation?
> 
> 5.Will I mostly retain most of my gains with this PCT protocol?
> 
> 6.Once I have completed this, would it be advisable to completely stay off any exogenous test until I am done have children?
> 
> 7.Would aromasin be useful in this PCT? I had read that it can increase endogenous test levels by 60%. If so, could I use it indefinitely?
> 
> 8. Since testosterone has been used as a reversible contraceptive, is my situation the same except for the fact that few people have been using it that long?
> 
> Thankyou very much Hackskii...


Very similar to what im doing, if I can get hold of the HMG which seems like rocking horse ****! personally I've been running cycles with very little off time over the last 2.5 years so my first step in trying to get her pregnant is to run the power PCT after this cycle and staying off for 12 weeks to get me near fully recovered (i hope). Then i will run light test cycles again but including 1000 iu of hcg per week from the start of the cycle to keep my testes firing and thus still giving me a fighting chance of catching her whilst on.. Then of course running a solid pct and taking 10-12 weeks off again.

If this doesn't work after a year and she doesnt get preggers then i will come off completely!


----------



## hackskii

topolm said:


> Ok, Read another thread about a young guy who ran trt for 3 years.
> 
> Would it be ok to run exactly what he did?
> 
> 45 Day protocol:
> 
> 1.HCG: - 2500iu EOD for 16days (20000iu total)
> 
> 2.HMG: 150iu eod for 16 days (1200iu total)
> 
> 3.Nolva: 20mg/day 45 days; (tapering off after the 45days by halfing the dose every 5 days)
> 
> 4.Clomid: two 50mg tabs per day for 30 days
> 
> 5.Aromasin: 12.5mg/day (add this because it can boost test levels by 60%?)
> 
> 6. IGF-1 LR3: 50mcg 5 days on 2 off for 45 days (Is IGF-1 LR3 really useful in my case?)
> 
> 7. 1,000iu Vitamin E/day (How long?)
> 
> 8. 5,000iu Vitamin D3/day (How long?)
> 
> 9. 25mg DHEA/day (How long?)
> 
> 10. 10 grams Fish Oil/day (How long?)
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1.Should I get blood work before I do this?
> 
> 2.Should I get blood work 10 days into this? Should it also include triglycerides, Thyroid function in addition to blood chem and hormone levels?
> 
> 3.What do I do if after 10 day endogenous test levels not at 400ng/dl? Just continue?
> 
> 4.After 16 days of HMG and HCG how long could it take for sperm levels to restore? Two years max?? Would I need to periodically use HMG again for additional testicular stimulation?
> 
> 5.Will I mostly retain most of my gains with this PCT protocol?
> 
> 6.Once I have completed this, would it be advisable to completely stay off any exogenous test until I am done have children?
> 
> 7.Would aromasin be useful in this PCT? I had read that it can increase endogenous test levels by 60%. If so, could I use it indefinitely?
> 
> 8. Since testosterone has been used as a reversible contraceptive, is my situation the same except for the fact that few people have been using it that long?
> 
> Thankyou very much Hackskii...


Drop the aromasin, no need for that here.

I remember this protocol, I think Mark did this one with my help.

He did recover pretty well.

With the vitamins, just keep them in there, add 1 cod liver for your vitamin A.

DHEA can be dropped after you are done.

I would add ZMA in there myself as well at night before bed with no milk products or any calcium.

No need for blood, it wont tell us much till after anyway where it will matter most.

10 day blood might be to early, if you can get the results by like day 14 or so, this will suggest the most.

If testosterone is within normal range then drop the HCG, HMG and keep the SERMS in, if still not in range, keep them in there.

HMG to stimulate sertoli cells for sperm, that and intra-testicular testosterone (ITT) will be from both HMG and HCG.

Clomid once the HMG, and HCG is topped doubles LH output from the pituitary and up to 50% increase in FSH, so both will help restore testicular function for testosterone and fertility.

Who cares about gains at this point, faster the recovery better to keep gains.

If you want kids, stay off gear.

Leave the AI's out of the mix, estrogen is necessary for libido, mood, bones, lipid profiles, manipulating estrogen at this point is not a good idea, regardless of who is telling you this.

Recovery is something that some have problems with, some do not, it is what it is.

You can add maca root, boron, L-Carnitine


----------



## topolm

Hackskii,

Thankyou sir for the information.

I am currently on a cyclic keto diet. Leaning out to 8% BF over the next 1.5 months. Carbing up once a week, lifting 3x a week, cardio 5x a week.

For this protocol too work, are there any dietary considerations that I should take into account?

How do I deal with cortisol issues when I go off?

I get enough saturated fat in my diet from eating egg yolks and cheese and get 55% of my calories from healthy fats, the rest is protein with lots and lots of vegetables.

I will likely do this HPTA restart in September. As I am using test prop, how should I time first dosages of HMG, HCG, Clomid after the last test prop shot?

After the 45 day protocol, if my HPTA is restarted, would there be any benefit in continuing to use HMG to restore sperm production faster?

Regards,

Topolm


----------



## hackskii

topolm said:


> Hackskii,
> 
> Thankyou sir for the information.
> 
> I am currently on a cyclic keto diet. Leaning out to 8% BF over the next 1.5 months. Carbing up once a week, lifting 3x a week, cardio 5x a week.
> 
> For this protocol too work, are there any dietary considerations that I should take into account?
> 
> How do I deal with cortisol issues when I go off?
> 
> I get enough saturated fat in my diet from eating egg yolks and cheese and get 55% of my calories from healthy fats, the rest is protein with lots and lots of vegetables.
> 
> I will likely do this HPTA restart in September. As I am using test prop, how should I time first dosages of HMG, HCG, Clomid after the last test prop shot?
> 
> After the 45 day protocol, if my HPTA is restarted, would there be any benefit in continuing to use HMG to restore sperm production faster?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Topolm


Well, you could start the HCG/HMG day of last shot as within half a week it will be out of your system and have no negative influence on HPTA past that.

If you need more time after the 45 day low dose clomid, and probably proviron would not be a bad idea.

Remember to keep the supplements that support things in play, you need all the ingredients to do the job.

DHEA would be a good idea for cortisol, but my buddy put me together a list and here is is below, he had high cortisol:

First Level (reported most strongest):

Phosphatidylserine - aka PS (*)

Holy Basil Extract

Magnolia Bark Extract (main ingredient in Relora)

Epimedium Extract

Rhodiola Rosea Extract

Ashwagandha Extract

Second Level (Good but not quite as strong - supposedly):

Gerovital-H3

Theanine

Melatonin

Gingko Biloba

Beta-sitosterol

Passionflower

Siberian ginseng (Caution - In some people will actually increase cortisol)

Also it is reported that 2 grams of glutamine daily along with 500 mg of NAC daily supposedly brings down cortisol levels rapidly.


----------



## Avi

Personal experience is very specific and not based on any myth.So experience is required to understand the situtation


----------



## musclekick

just had a read at this: http://pregnancy.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Low_Fertility_Caused_by_Steroids

Male Problems

In the male, a common side effect of anabolic steroid use is impotence and erectile dysfunction. Sperm count is also significantly affected. Hormones critical to the process of sperm production are significantly affected by the use of anabolic steroids and, the greater the amount of steroids taken, the greater the impact on the hormone pattern. Reduced fertility caused by steroids is something that very few men appreciate. The need to look good or perform well in the athletic arena often clouds judgement. It is not until they choose to begin a family that their habit begins to haunt them.

Fortunately, the male fertility effects caused by the use of anabolic steroids are reversed once the drug is no longer taken. The effects, however, can reduce sperm count and function for over twelve months. Low fertility caused by steroids in this case is entirely avoidable and should be a primary consideration for those who use them for recreational purposes.

the bottom line here is that fertility should improve but can take up to and possibly over 12 months,


----------



## hackskii

musclekick said:


> just had a read at this: http://pregnancy.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Low_Fertility_Caused_by_Steroids
> 
> Male Problems
> 
> In the male, a common side effect of anabolic steroid use is impotence and erectile dysfunction. Sperm count is also significantly affected. Hormones critical to the process of sperm production are significantly affected by the use of anabolic steroids and, the greater the amount of steroids taken, the greater the impact on the hormone pattern. Reduced fertility caused by steroids is something that very few men appreciate. The need to look good or perform well in the athletic arena often clouds judgement. It is not until they choose to begin a family that their habit begins to haunt them.
> 
> Fortunately, the male fertility effects caused by the use of anabolic steroids are reversed once the drug is no longer taken. The effects, however, can reduce sperm count and function for over twelve months. Low fertility caused by steroids in this case is entirely avoidable and should be a primary consideration for those who use them for recreational purposes.
> 
> the bottom line here is that fertility should improve but can take up to and possibly over 12 months,


Actually longer.

Testosterone production from lets say deca can take many months to come back to normal production, then you can add many more months to that for sperm.


----------



## markandspike

http://www.ergo-log.com/15mgdbol.html


----------



## markandspike

hackskii said:


> Actually longer.
> 
> Testosterone production from lets say deca can take many months to come back to normal production, then you can add many more months to that for sperm.


http://www.ergo-log.com/decacycle.html


----------



## hackskii

markandspike said:


> http://www.ergo-log.com/decacycle.html


There was another guy that did 10 years of gear, and last cycle had deca in it, 3 years later his sperm was dead.

http://www.ergo-log.com/hormonesstilloffbalance.html

Bodybuilder recovers from clomid, but did not have good results at 50mg: http://www.ergo-log.com/clomidbodybuilder.html


----------



## Ironman

I'm in the same boat re this post - I'm 37 now and trying for my third - 7 months off gear and 4 months trying

My last course was heavy lasting about a year - I cycled my gear every 6 to 8 weeks and I used a good amount of tren. And I'm paying the price now :-(

I did a what I thought was a good pct - clomid, tamax, hcg, vit e, vit c, zinc - which seemed to work ok to start with - kept most of my size and was still interested in sex, however as times wore on i seem going in the wrong direction - my balls dont seem to be growing - and im struggling to stay hard and my interest in sex is zero - had 3 epic fails in the last month where I flopped - now this is on my mind every time I even think about sex. And the knock on effect to my wife is tough.

I've tried a month on the rhom pct a couple months after my original pct - which seemed to boost my sex drive and hard ons - but weened when I stopped - (its to expensive for me to continue with that), and I'm now taking just some tamoxifen to try to increase something.

Pscarb has given me a life line with some good advise re proviron hcg etc so getting the bits and pieces together for that to start this week and go forward with that so fingers crossed.

Just wanted to put up here to track and see how I progress for others that may be in my situation and also just to get off my chest as its pretty heavy stuff when you cant get it up properly and your trying for a child.

Any feedback is welcome

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Ironman said:


> I'm in the same boat re this post - I'm 37 now and trying for my third - 7 months off gear and 4 months trying
> 
> My last course was heavy lasting about a year - I cycled my gear every 6 to 8 weeks and I used a good amount of tren. And I'm paying the price now :-(
> 
> I did a what I thought was a good pct - clomid, tamax, hcg, vit e, vit c, zinc - which seemed to work ok to start with - kept most of my size and was still interested in sex, however as times wore on i seem going in the wrong direction - my balls dont seem to be growing - and im struggling to stay hard and my interest in sex is zero - had 3 epic fails in the last month where I flopped - now this is on my mind every time I even think about sex. And the knock on effect to my wife is tough.
> 
> I've tried a month on the rhom pct a couple months after my original pct - which seemed to boost my sex drive and hard ons - but weened when I stopped - (its to expensive for me to continue with that), and I'm now taking just some tamoxifen to try to increase something.
> 
> Pscarb has given me a life line with some good advise re proviron hcg etc so getting the bits and pieces together for that to start this week and go forward with that so fingers crossed.
> 
> Just wanted to put up here to track and see how I progress for others that may be in my situation and also just to get off my chest as its pretty heavy stuff when you cant get it up properly and your trying for a child.
> 
> Any feedback is welcome
> 
> Thanks


Before you go any farther, can you get your LH, FSH, and testosterone levels checked?

Are you taking any other meds at all?

I would absolutly take 5000iu of vitamin D a day.

First thing I noticed with this was night time erections, second day I had a sex dream and that has not happened for some time, I am 53.


----------



## Ironman

hackskii said:


> Before you go any farther, can you get your LH, FSH, and testosterone levels checked?
> 
> Are you taking any other meds at all?
> 
> I would absolutly take 5000iu of vitamin D a day.
> 
> First thing I noticed with this was night time erections, second day I had a sex dream and that has not happened for some time, I am 53.


Hi hackskii -

I'd prefer not to go to my gp over this - been there to many times for steroid issues in the past. Not sure where else I could go.

Vitamin D ordered


----------



## Ironman

Sorry Hacksii prob a stupid question - is that Vitamin d-3? This is what comes up when I search for vit d


----------



## Ironman

Got the d3


----------



## hackskii

Yes, it is D-3, and totally awesome stuff, for immune system, mood, support for testosterone, anti-cancer, awesome stuff and a common deficiency.


----------



## Ironman

hackskii said:


> Yes, it is D-3, and totally awesome stuff, for immune system, mood, support for testosterone, anti-cancer, awesome stuff and a common deficiency.


Spot on Hacksii - I've had a good read into it and it does look awesome!!!!!


----------



## sitries

just been having a little read. hope you get back on track ironman. the Vit D sounds like a great option. Iv done a long cycle in the past without coming off properly for best part of a year and dont think my sex drive has ever been fully back to where it was beforehand since.

Just out of interest - Do any of the pro bodybuilders (cutler, coleman etc) have kids???? As id imagine it must be near on impossible for them to do it with the amount of gear they must take/have taken.


----------



## Goose

I take around 5000iu a day of Vitamin D3 - Morning woods, oily skin, increased sex drive. Definately a great product


----------



## hackskii

Dublin said:


> @hackskii Hi just read through this sticky now and wondered had any info being posted re the effect of aas on female fertility ?


I will slit my wrists now:lol:

I have a very hard time understanding a women, yet alone one with menopause.

Best guess is no period.

Best guest is probably a libido boost:lol:

Fertility?

Good question.

Can't answer.

Good answer is to not use.


----------



## Kazza61

No expert in this field but.....

Me and the wife have so far not managed to have a baby. I'm now 52 and she is 34. I used AAS in only a relatively small amount 5+ years ago. We are now going down the IVF route. In all the tests so far my sperm count and motility has been low. Had our first go at IVF and it actually turned out there was a problem with the eggs (although my sperm count and motility were particularly low too).

We only get two goes on the NHS so I thought I'd try and do everything I could to get to a good sperm count if at all possible. My usual daily supplements are 1g Vit C, 2g Cod Liver Oil plus multi-vits. To this I added 10 desicatted liver tabs per day, 2g Tribulus, 500mg MACA and 1 Korean Ginseng, for the two months leading up to the most recent IVF. I also abstained for the 3 days prior. Result on the day was a perfectly normal count with normal motility! (and a pretty smug feeling to go with it!).

I've no real idea which, if in fact any, of the supplements I took made any difference but am sharing so people can take from this account whichever bits they feel relevant.

(This time we got 11 eggs, 8 were good to be fertilised, 7 did fertilise, 3 made it to top quality, 1 has been implanted and we are waiting on the result, 2 were frozen for a follow-up implanting if the current one fails).

Whilst we wait I get to ponder the shame an older father can bestow on a young child as he hobbles in last in the father's Potato and spoon race at the kid's sports day......


----------



## hackskii

Well, if you never experianced a child, it is the most awesome thing in the world.

I have 2 one year old grand boys, and 1 two year old grand daughter.

It is the funnest thing in the world to play with them.

One day I was laying on the ground and the 1 year old boy laid on me belly to belly staring into my face with a big smile on his face, that feeling just took me away.

when the 2 year old girl calls me Grandpa, it just melts my heart.

I am 53 and my daughter is 13, so I started late, but only then was I ready, I would not have been a good father when I was younger, just cared about partying and myself back then.


----------



## Ukmeathead

Just got some results from the doc's apparently I got super sperm  I got 80mill/ml and I produced 5ml Sorry for posting this just feeling good right now


----------



## Jpeg3000

sbeast007 said:


> my wife and i are trying for our second child at the moment...she concieved on our first child just over 4 years ago when i was trying out my first sust cycle.
> 
> ive been on and off gear for the last 4 years not really paying alot of attention to pct, following some pct but not fully.
> 
> i came off a enanthate 1gweek and eq 500mg a week cycle at the beginning of november maybe just b4.
> 
> i started on the multivit tabs, zinc and fish oils and made sure that i had taken them everyday as i usually forget.
> 
> ive also just completed a short course of proviron at 50mg a day for around 20days and have just ordered some clomid to see if that helps.
> 
> we did a fertilty test the other night to see wot that had to say and according to the test which they say is 97% accurate my result was that i was producing under the norm of 20million per ml of sperm.
> 
> im feeling pretty low at the moment even tho we havent been tryin that long (3-4months) i feel as if ive been selfish in some ways for taking steroids knowing full well it could affect me in this way. and now im concerned that i may not be able to give her what she really wants.


I feel your pain, my wife is desperate for kids and after 3 years of trying I got tested and I had zero sperm, I was mortified, felt like less of a man rather than feeling like you are the man when on cycle. I got it up to 3milliom in 2months using clomid, hcg and the odd hmg Injection, I used 200mg ed of proviron too. I am still spending a fortune on hmg and trying to find a proven scientific protocol that shows hmg and hcg to increase sperm count with desensitising my balls so they are not useless after the taking about 4 months of the. I have a sperm test in 5 weeks and if my sperm has reached a massive figure like I hope then I will puplish the results and what I took to get them so there is another real person who has had success or not with hmg. Hang in there mate and try not to feel guilty, myself included there are plenty of us worried about the same thing!


----------



## Jpeg3000

sbeast007 said:


> missis did a pregnancy test this morning and the result came back positive!
> 
> she did 2 to be on the safe side....we abit shocked but i dont know why seeing as we have been trying for nearly 8months lol
> 
> she hasnt phoned the nurse yet for a appointment she says she doesnt want to get her hopes up too much just incase.


Congrats mate fair play to you


----------



## Jpeg3000

hackskii said:


> I love babies, they smell so clean (not the diaper stuff:lol, I also like the sounds they make when they are feeding.
> 
> That brought back memories.


Ha this made me laugh, my mrs constantly goes on about that newborn baby smell and I have no idea what she means, I can tell her she's not the only one!


----------



## Jpeg3000

tuna_man said:


> Hey guys, im new to the forum and to roids, but the endocrinology of steroid use and reproductive endocrinology is an area i am interested in and plan to study in the future.
> 
> If I can be of any help to the bros in terms of offering any info i think may be worthwhile, if it helps fertility issues, i would be very pleased.
> 
> The first obvious thing to be done is to not touch any gear with a barge pole. Then, the size and firmness of testes should be measured. Technically, an orchidometer is used to measure testicular volume, but you can assess this for your self.
> 
> Most of the mass of the testis is developing sperm, so small testes mean barely any sperm production. FSH is needed to act at sertoli cells to help produce sperm (it gets complicated-it stimulates production of Androgen binding protein in the testes). Testosterone acts like a 'fertiliser' to the sperm, but it must be your own testosterone, intratesticular, as intratesticular test levels need to be way higher than blood test levels.
> 
> Using hCG to act as a LH analogue to stimulate intratesticular testosterone production by leydig cells, and using hMG (menotropins) or any other available FSH preparation will serve to stimulate sertoli cells. In this way, administration of these compounds can encourage testicular development and spermatogenesis.
> 
> By using clomiphene, the body's own LH and FSH production can be increased to couple the whole system.
> 
> By using the menotropins and hcg say 3x weekly for 75iu HMG and around 1000iu HCG, for 4 (or even 8) weeks this can help regenerate testicular mass and spermatogenesis.
> 
> Be careful not to induce gynecomastia from the compounds, keep nolvadex on hand, but even nolvadex may affect the testis directly.
> 
> Clomid at 50mg/day for 1 month of using the hCG and hMG, then increase to 100mg/day for 10 days following cessation of hCG and hMG, then use 50mg/day for a further 10-15 days. As i said keep nolva on hand and you may need to use it. I dont think using 10-20mg/day throughout would do much harm.
> 
> Also, take zinc at 30-45mg every night. And eat lots of fruit and veg, good healthy fats, even some healthy saturated fats. Go for natural peanut butter, extra virgin olive oil (uncooked), whole eggs (the yolks are very important). And dont overdo it in the gym, cut back on training for this important period. And ejaculate as much as possible during the recovery, as this is supposed to help recovery.
> 
> Remember, sperms take months to form, so after such a protocol, a month or two later sperm count should be very healthy I think.
> 
> The above information is not intended to diagnose or treat, it is just some thoughts I have had regarding AAS induced oligospermia/azoospermia. You could try discussing it with a doctor, show him this info if you want, but I realise that most doctors and endocrinologists in this country know jack s*** about endocrinology of steroid use/abuse. Either way, If i had a low sperm count I would consider something like above, but blood tests before and after, particularly T, LH, FSH would help a lot, as well as a sperm test a month or two after.
> 
> Even then, a method of increasing conception rat after the procedure above is to monitor when your partner will ovulate, and make sure you havent ejaculated for at least 2-3 days before an attempt at conception is made. This is underrated, but can help if sperm is low/moderately low.
> 
> As for mesterolone, it may help if sperm count has recovered a bit, but im not entirely sure about it. If all else fails, it may be worth a try.
> 
> I hope the information above just gives you guys food for thought, and it should show you that all is not doomed, there are many possible solutions.
> 
> Your sperm count may even simply need time to recover, and time is the best healer as they say.
> 
> Good Luck.


This is the exact info I have been searching for, if I have understood correctly I can use small doses of hcg with daily does of hmg and if I add clomid it will ensure the pituitary gland with keep working and won't shut down because of the hcg? I have about 5 weeks before my next sperm test and have been taking 500iu hcg and 75iu hmg for 11 weeks with a two week break after week 8. I am working my way back from zero sperm spans if I don't hit 20 million in 5 weeks time then the urolisgt so treat me because he hates steroids basically! So if I have understood you correctly I can carry on doing what I have been!


----------



## Jpeg3000

Trenzyme said:


> after reading this threading my head hurts ..lol
> 
> after 3 years of cycling and cruising (with odd few 1000ius of hcg evey now and then ) would i have to come off to get my gf pregnant or would staying on 250mg test ew and adding hcg hmg and proviron help get my swimmer back up and running,
> 
> cheers


Did this work?


----------



## supercell

After starting this thread many moons ago and having been absent from this site for many months, I thought I would give everyone an update. In december 2012, after the British Grand Prix, I decided to take a little time away from competitive bodybuilding so decided to come off and try to recover. Having been on constantly since July 2009 and cycling since around 2000,I was a little concerned as to whether or not I would actually recover at all having turned 40.

I had a variety of blood work done around 5 months ago and everything was within normal parameters, however I did not have my test levels checked until 2 weeks ago, some 6 months after ceasing AAS.

I am pleased to report that my levels were well within the normal parameters and my doctor was happy that full recovery was indeed complete. Next month I am booked in for semen analysis so I will report back then as to the findings.

I will say that coming off was hard and for around 5 months I was on the antidepressant sertraline, as I was low and having panic attacks. Now I have weaned myself off them and feel great; happy, energised and raring to go!

Don't think recovery is an easy ride, its not BUT don't lose hope as things very quickly can turn around!

James


----------



## Adz

Hi guys, me and the mrs are trying for a baby and I've done a few months of pro-hormones over summer. Ive been taking Pure Cycle Support with the last lot.

Now Ive been reading this thread and wondering if it will have shut down my swimmers.

We have been trying for couple of years but not had any luck yet, Im hoping the PH's won't have made anything worse!

Due to finish my last course in 2 weeks so should I be looking at getting some Proviron or Clomid to help get things back to normal?


----------



## Paz1982

chilisi said:


> I used HCG at 1500ius every 2 weeks, 25mg of Proviron 3 x a day, on a high dose winni cycle for 4 weeks, into a high dose Oxy cycle with test s, Mtren and injectable dbol 2-3 times a week.
> 
> The 3 x a day Proviron protocol I found from searching the Internet about fertility treatment, and sperm mobility.
> 
> After 8 weeks on cycle I had just over 2 weeks off all meds, whilst away with work around 16th of March. My wife is nearly finishing her first pregnancy trimester. Around 11 weeks pregnant


how long did you run the proviron for ?


----------



## Paz1982

chilisi said:


> Nearly 2 months I think.


did you run hcg throughout you cycle or just started at 1500iu every 2 weeks when you stopped ?

sorry for all the questions mate but me and the mrs are thinking of trying but ive been cycling since last august with, what i'd say is hardly enough time off in between, so really I think in effect ive been 'on' for just over a year


----------



## Mr-Fizzle

Hi guys,

Thought I would chip in with my story. Been off and on, more on, for 6 years. Had a daughter 6 years ago, thensplit from her mum. Met my now wife 2 years ago, married a year later. She wanted a kid, we tried for 6 months...went docs and blagged we had been trying for a year. Got tests done, near enough infertile!!

I did not come off to Concieve......what I did was:

Ran 250mg sust every 10 days

Hcg I ran 5000iu every 5 days x 3, 1500iu every 3 days x 3, then 500iu every other day for 2-3 months

Clomid I ran at 100mg a day split am/pm

Proviron ran at 200mg a day 8 weeks

Used a product called fertilaid, got it off ebay, check the reviews out on it. I was a little suspect but though why not.

3 months later my sperm count is high end, massive improvement in motility and morphology and mrs is 6 weeks preggers. Still early days but just wanted too add my story in the hope it may help someone. My protocol looks well ott but it helped and I found out I actually have a pair of testicles now, pretty big ones at that lmao. Previously 2 grapes lmao. Also those **** test sticks helped, we were trying to conceive on days that were not best for it, we knew roughly when, but when it showed she was ovulating we made sure to get as much loving in as possible, lol.


----------



## NO-IDEA

Mr-Fizzle said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Thought I would chip in with my story. Been off and on, more on, for 6 years. Had a daughter 6 years ago, thensplit from her mum. Met my now wife 2 years ago, married a year later. She wanted a kid, we tried for 6 months...went docs and blagged we had been trying for a year. Got tests done, near enough infertile!!
> 
> I did not come off to Concieve......what I did was:
> 
> Ran 250mg sust every 10 days
> 
> Hcg I ran 5000iu every 5 days x 3, 1500iu every 3 days x 3, then 500iu every other day for 2-3 months
> 
> Clomid I ran at 100mg a day split am/pm
> 
> Proviron ran at 200mg a day 8 weeks
> 
> Used a product called fertilaid, got it off ebay, check the reviews out on it. I was a little suspect but though why not.
> 
> 3 months later my sperm count is high end, massive improvement in motility and morphology and mrs is 6 weeks preggers. Still early days but just wanted too add my story in the hope it may help someone. My protocol looks well ott but it helped and I found out I actually have a pair of testicles now, pretty big ones at that lmao. Previously 2 grapes lmao. Also those **** test sticks helped, we were trying to conceive on days that were not best for it, we knew roughly when, but when it showed she was ovulating we made sure to get as much loving in as possible, lol.


awesome physique in your pic mate.

Anyway thought i would add my 2 cents. we decided last year to try for a baby. I'd been on stuff for approx 20 weeks with my highest dose being around 6-800 mg of various tests with the odd oral thrown in here and there. I had never touched HCG, and on reflection never tried a proper PCT (Id been cycling for approx 3 years).

I started using the POWER PCT, which is advocated on this forum by hacks and within 8 weeks my girlfriend was pregnant. Was worried right through the pregnancy that what i had taken might of effected the baby etc, however we had a perfectly healthy baby girl (of course) last month. I also helped my friend conceive who was a big user of test.. It took them 9 weeks (hes having twins), i really think not using stuff like tren,deca,equipoise, etc really does make a difference in how long it takes.

My tip would be to buy a microscope, i won't say what for but sure you can imagine.. it really does motivate you seeing the little ''swimmers'' haha.


----------



## hackskii

NO-IDEA said:


> awesome physique in your pic mate.
> 
> Anyway thought i would add my 2 cents. we decided last year to try for a baby. I'd been on stuff for approx 20 weeks with my highest dose being around 6-800 mg of various tests with the odd oral thrown in here and there. I had never touched HCG, and on reflection never tried a proper PCT (Id been cycling for approx 3 years).
> 
> I started using the POWER PCT, which is advocated on this forum by hacks and within 8 weeks my girlfriend was pregnant. Was worried right through the pregnancy that what i had taken might of effected the baby etc, however we had a perfectly healthy baby girl (of course) last month. I also helped my friend conceive who was a big user of test.. It took them 9 weeks (hes having twins), i really think not using stuff like tren,deca,equipoise, etc really does make a difference in how long it takes.
> 
> My tip would be to buy a microscope, i won't say what for but sure you can imagine.. it really does motivate you seeing the little ''swimmers'' haha.


Fantastic news.

There are some that feel the Power PCT is not up to date, but this validates what I have always known, it works.


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> Fantastic news.
> 
> There are some that feel the Power PCT is not up to date, but this validates what I have always known, it works.


Certainly, i honestly believe if i hadnt of stumbled across the power pct i really don't think i would have my baby girl right now, so thankyou.


----------



## supermancss

I came off everything about 6-7months ago, myself and partner are currently trying unsuccessfully. Waiting for sperm test results, I have to wait for a Doctor to call me and they cant tell me over the phone now.. Not sure if thats standard stupid proceedure or what.. frustrating not knowing, its been 9 days...


----------



## Ukmeathead

supermancss said:


> I came off everything about 6-7months ago, myself and partner are currently trying unsuccessfully. Waiting for sperm test results, I have to wait for a Doctor to call me and they cant tell me over the phone now.. Not sure if thats standard stupid proceedure or what.. frustrating not knowing, its been 9 days...


That's standard now, they done the same to me all came back superb so wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## NO-IDEA

supermancss said:


> I came off everything about 6-7months ago, myself and partner are currently trying unsuccessfully. Waiting for sperm test results, I have to wait for a Doctor to call me and they cant tell me over the phone now.. Not sure if thats standard stupid proceedure or what.. frustrating not knowing, its been 9 days...


That sucks mate, but you will get there it takes the average couple near on a year so good chance your just unlucky to date. Don't forget all the non chemical things to do aswell ie good diet with lots of fruit and veg, partner lieing on back after sex with pillow under bum etc and also don't overdo it we were doing it every 2 days.


----------



## SteveXX

All studies that have been conducted in male contraseption (most used test cypionate 200mg/week) show that sooner or later sperm production recovers. We are talking about 20+ week studies.

But it can take a while, 3 months to over a year...


----------



## Spragga

@supermancss how did you get on mate?


----------



## supermancss

Spragga said:


> @supermancss how did you get on mate?


Results were a bit middle of the road really.

Sperm sample I gave had a lower end count of 12million per ML but had a larger volume of sperm than usual so made it slightly better.

I believe i should be in the area of around 30-40million per ML.

Mobility + shape etc of sperm was good.

We have been passed onto a specialist now who my partner is seeing later this month. I've been asked to give another sperm sample again for this thursday which will have more in depth tests done.

Previously I jizzed in the pot at home then drove to the hospital 30mins away. But this is the specialist centre so theyve got a room you have to do it in. Hope it doesnt smell of jizz.

1 side of me is dreading it because ill have the dirtiest grin on my face when I come out of this room... then the other side of me is excited to see what material they have hahaha.


----------



## Spragga

:lol: ......

All the best mate..... I'll be in a similar position next year....


----------



## supermancss

Spragga said:


> :lol: ......
> 
> All the best mate..... I'll be in a similar position next year....


ive got it easy really, fingers crossed I get a boat load of clomid and/or HCG to see if it improves ^^


----------



## Spragga

supermancss said:


> ive got it easy really, fingers crossed I get a boat load of clomid and/or HCG to see if it improves ^^


Have you looked into proviron mate?


----------



## casebian

supermancss said:


> Results were a bit middle of the road really.
> 
> Sperm sample I gave had a lower end count of 12million per ML but had a larger volume of sperm than usual so made it slightly better.
> 
> I believe i should be in the area of around 30-40million per ML.
> 
> Mobility + shape etc of sperm was good.
> 
> We have been passed onto a specialist now who my partner is seeing later this month. I've been asked to give another sperm sample again for this thursday which will have more in depth tests done.
> 
> Previously I jizzed in the pot at home then drove to the hospital 30mins away. But this is the specialist centre so theyve got a room you have to do it in. Hope it doesnt smell of jizz.
> 
> 1 side of me is dreading it because ill have the dirtiest grin on my face when I come out of this room... then the other side of me is excited to see what material they have hahaha.


you get used to it pal they only have porn mags in there its not awkward for you or them neither as they see it every day the funny thing is there was a bloke before me it took him ages about 45 mins i was in and out within 5 mins good luck with everything im going thru ivf at the mo find out on sunday if its worked already had a couple of failed attempts


----------



## supermancss

Spragga said:


> Have you looked into proviron mate?


Ive looked yeah, not taken anything though since stopping cycle going cold turkey on everything.

Will see what the results from the test when my mrs has her specialist appointment in few weeks. From memory if anything im a slight bit less interesting in sex than before I went on cycle.. so maybe test levels and everything is still a little lower than it should be.



casebian said:


> you get used to it pal they only have porn mags in there its not awkward for you or them neither as they see it every day the funny thing is there was a bloke before me it took him ages about 45 mins i was in and out within 5 mins good luck with everything im going thru ivf at the mo find out on sunday if its worked already had a couple of failed attempts


Good luck with it mate. Ive read alot of stories about how cruel and hard work the IVF process is, especially on the woman I think too. I'm sure I'll be in and out, forget 45minutes!! i'll have sanded my nob off in that amount of time haha.


----------



## casebian

supermancss said:


> Ive looked yeah, not taken anything though since stopping cycle going cold turkey on everything.
> 
> Will see what the results from the test when my mrs has her specialist appointment in few weeks. From memory if anything im a slight bit less interesting in sex than before I went on cycle.. so maybe test levels and everything is still a little lower than it should be.
> 
> Good luck with it mate. Ive read alot of stories about how cruel and hard work the IVF process is, especially on the woman I think too. I'm sure I'll be in and out, forget 45minutes!! i'll have sanded my nob off in that amount of time haha.


yeh its tough on the women they have to go through alot of stuff emotionally mentally physically we have to jizz in a cup dosnt seem fair does it and its hard when it dont work but thats life you have to take it on the chin and move on hopefully this time we will get lucky tho


----------



## hackskii

HCG will inhibit LH, so might not want that one.

Clomid will bump FSH, and LH if the balls are working.

If balls are not working then I suggest HMG, along with HCG, then some clomid and nolva.


----------



## supermancss

hackskii said:


> HCG will inhibit LH, so might not want that one.
> 
> Clomid will bump FSH, and LH if the balls are working.
> 
> If balls are not working then I suggest HMG, along with HCG, then some clomid and nolva.


Ive got Nolva & clomid sat around, will taking that make any difference within a few days? Test is thursday this week, I think it'l be around a week before it had any affect anyway?

Balls are working, just not optimum!! lol


----------



## hackskii

supermancss said:


> Ive got Nolva & clomid sat around, will taking that make any difference within a few days? Test is thursday this week, I think it'l be around a week before it had any affect anyway?
> 
> Balls are working, just not optimum!! lol


Well, sperm takes a long time to come back, FSH and LH soon, sperm much longer.


----------



## SteveXX

> HCG will inhibit LH, so might not want that one.
> 
> Clomid will bump FSH, and LH if the balls are working.
> 
> If balls are not working then I suggest HMG, along with HCG, then some clomid and nolva.


It takes VERY long to have declining levels of sperm when administering hCG, plus when azoospermic it does produce sperm regardless of the presence of FSH (or exogenous analogs). Though it is better to use both.


----------



## MRENIGMA

Just seen this thread, was debating jumping back ON, this thread has reminded me of how important it is to have adequate time off, thank you for everyone that shared their experience, a real eye opener!


----------



## Bigh260782

Happened to me also , doctors told me I was infertile then I spilled the beans what I was taking he hadn't a clue what I was talking about , he refered me to a urologist who explained exactly what happens . He told me to stop taking everything and don't touch a thing. Sperm count on the first run was 0 yes 0 in a 10 mil sample . He said average is 25million in an individual sample .

I went clean for6 months then got retested and it was 54 million , the doctor was blown away by the results . So yes time of is very important and I now know how much testi can get away with without my own shutting down totally .

Thanks for listening


----------



## The doog

hackskii said:


> Well, sperm takes a long time to come back, FSH and LH soon, sperm much longer.


Hi @hackskii

This is the opposite of what the former Dr Scally thinks. In the pod cast with JM and Shelby he said that fertility can be resolved before full recovery has taken place? Plus we've seen on this forum that guys have got there mrs pregnant while on cycle. Even just after years of constant use.


----------



## cplmadison

50mg clomid for 3 months (25 days on 5 off)

1mg arimidex every day for 3 months

400 folic acid

25mg zinc

1000mg vit c

= pregnant mrs


----------



## cplmadison

fyi 1000ui HCG each week should start producing sperm almost immediately (use this if clomid/arimidex doesnt work)


----------



## MincedMuscle

Has anyone ever mentioned iodine deficiency on this thread as a cause of infertility?


----------



## MincedMuscle

The doog said:


> Hi @hackskii
> 
> This is the opposite of what the former Dr Scally thinks. In the pod cast with JM and Shelby he said that fertility can be resolved before full recovery has taken place? Plus we've seen on this forum that guys have got there mrs pregnant while on cycle. Even just after years of constant use.


By the way I've conceived 2 boys on cycle. One on tren. So yeah....


----------



## The doog

MincedMuscle said:


> By the way I've conceived 2 boys on cycle. One on tren. So yeah....


Yeah but this isn't the norm. HCG and Clomid must help things to bounce back faster though.

It would be interesting to see sperm and hormone blood tests taken pre cycle, during and just after pct. Then another one six months post PCT and see what actually happen.

Also, surely short prop cycles with HCG will be better than a full blown 12-14 weeker for guys worried about fertility. Or does it really make no difference.


----------



## MincedMuscle

The doog said:


> Yeah but this isn't the norm. HCG and Clomid must help things to bounce back faster though.
> 
> It would be interesting to see sperm and hormone blood tests taken pre cycle, during and just after pct. Then another one six months post PCT and see what actually happen.
> 
> Also, surely short prop cycles with HCG will be better than a full blown 12-14 weeker for guys worried about fertility. Or does it really make no difference.


Roids shut down testosterone production, not sperm production.


----------



## hackskii

Roids can also shut down ITT, FSH, and LH, and thus potentially make one sterile on cycle, but not all, some.


----------



## cplmadison

hackskii said:


> Roids can also shut down ITT, FSH, and LH, and thus potentially make one sterile on cycle, but not all, some.


true that, i was 6 years off steroids after a nolva only pct and sperm count of <1m

got it back up with lots of research, clomid and arimidex 

next pct will definitly not be nolva only !


----------



## The doog

Fertility is something that does concern me.

@hackskii

Do you think short prop cycles with hcg would be kinder on the swimmers than longer cycles?


----------



## hackskii

cplmadison said:


> true that, i was 6 years off steroids after a nolva only pct and sperm count of <1m
> 
> got it back up with lots of research, clomid and arimidex
> 
> next pct will definitly not be nolva only !


Why did you use 1mg ED of adex?

Driving estrogen too low can become an issue with mood, libido, stiff joints, lipid profiles, bone loss, etc.



The doog said:


> Fertility is something that does concern me.
> 
> @hackskii
> 
> Do you think short prop cycles with hcg would be kinder on the swimmers than longer cycles?


Much easier, and clomid during PCT.

It wont take much to keep fertility with that, and possibly low dose clomid during as well for FSH, just speculation of course but it makes some sense to me.


----------



## cplmadison

hackskii said:


> Why did you use 1mg ED of adex?
> 
> Driving estrogen too low can become an issue with mood, libido, stiff joints, lipid profiles, bone loss, etc.
> 
> after lots of research i found an old clinical trial where test subjects were given 50mg clomid e/d for 3 months (25 days on 5 off) and 1mg a day of arimidex for 3 months
> 
> after the 3 month period there was a significant increase in sperm count and quality
> 
> after one month on this i managed to get the mrs pregnant (after a year of having low sperm count)
> 
> my sperm count increased significantly (from less than a million to 8 million in the 1st month) with 89% motility and 40% grade a sperm
> 
> worked for me, shes now 13 weeks preg


----------



## hackskii

cplmadison said:


> Well, the likely thing that probably worked the best was the clomid, at 100mg ED it doubles LH output and increases FSH by as much as 50%.
> 
> I saw a guys LH after he was on 50mg for a month and his numbers were 29 or like 3 times over the max.
> 
> Just cant believe you could get an erection at 1mg per day, it crushes my libido at that.


----------



## cplmadison

hackskii said:


> well now that you mention it i did have a few problems lol
> 
> never thought it was the adex though explains a few things


----------



## novo007

@hackskii

Looking for a bit of advice mate,just came off a 6 week cycle of 100mg anavar as the other half decides she wants to start a family.im one week in to 100mg clomid 20mg nolva daily then came across your protocol of hcg etc and wondered should I do my 3 weeks of clomid/nolva then get checked to see where I'm at then decide if I need hcg?i hadn't used test in about a year prior to the anavar but feel like the var shut me down as nuts shrunk pretty good etc.any advice is appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

You should be fine without the hCG.


----------



## tns

@hackskii i got a question for you.. im 27years old. my natural test levels are normal(to low) and free testosterone was lower than the min range of the tests.

no matter the reason if i put my self on TRT by my own should i be able to have kids in the future? am i risking a permanent infertility??


----------



## hackskii

tns said:


> @hackskii i got a question for you.. im 27years old. my natural test levels are normal(to low) and free testosterone was lower than the min range of the tests.
> 
> no matter the reason if i put my self on TRT by my own should i be able to have kids in the future? am i risking a permanent infertility??


Try supplementing Vitamin D at 5000iu per day, 25mg of zinc a day, 1 cod liver tab, and 300mg magnesium a day.

Try that for a week, let me know how much better your night time erections are.


----------



## tns

hackskii said:


> Try supplementing Vitamin D at 5000iu per day, 25mg of zinc a day, 1 cod liver tab, and 300mg magnesium a day.
> 
> Try that for a week, let me know how much better your night time erections are.


i'm currently using test for the 1st time, 6th week so i dont have erection problems. can you answer on what i asked or there is no answer???


----------



## hackskii

tns said:


> i'm currently using test for the 1st time, 6th week so i dont have erection problems. can you answer on what i asked or there is no answer???


Well, short answer is possible to have kids, but probably the longer you are on, the less the chance, and some men yes will not be able to have kids on cycle.

The stuff I suggested was to bring up your natty levels.

Your question was if you put yourself on TRT would you be able to have kids, but you are already in 6 weeks.


----------



## tns

hackskii said:


> Well, short answer is possible to have kids, but probably the longer you are on, the less the chance, and some men yes will not be able to have kids on cycle.
> 
> The stuff I suggested was to bring up your natty levels.
> 
> Your question was if you put yourself on TRT would you be able to have kids, but you are already in 6 weeks.


im cycling now, but just reviewing my options. just in case

the fact is i dont wanna have kids at the moment.

my real question which i didnt phrase correct is. if go on TRT(or blasting and cruising as some might say) and lets say in 3or 4 years i decide i want to make family. are there chances for permanent steritility?

assuming i go off and follow medications etc etc..


----------



## hackskii

tns said:


> im cycling now, but just reviewing my options. just in case
> 
> the fact is i dont wanna have kids at the moment.
> 
> my real question which i didnt phrase correct is. if go on TRT(or blasting and cruising as some might say) and lets say in 3or 4 years i decide i want to make family. are there chances for permanent steritility?
> 
> assuming i go off and follow medications etc etc..


Of course there is a chance, but not a high likelyhood.


----------



## sitries

Right - so i had been worried for a while about my test levels after staying on pretty much for a year blasting and cruising. I had 2 years off the gear and now im feeling back to normal and am going to do another sensible 12 week cycle. This time i want to get my test levels checked before the cycle to see where my body is at now that my system is fully clean. I went to the doctors today fishing to get him to send me for bloodwork. I told him i had been trying for a baby for 12months with no joy (which was a lie) and that i had no sex drive etc etc. He basically told me that you need to have had been trying for a baby for 3 years in order to get him to do bloodwork and that he could tell by looking at me that my test levels were fine! He said coz i was muscular and had a beard they weren't low. Anyway, he offered to test me sperm levels and gave me a pot to go home and provide a sample with and take it to the hospital. I plan to do this next week anyway, but i still want to get bloodwork done. I live in London and want to get full blood work..............can someone recommend anywhere in London that i can go and get this done????????????????


----------



## sitries

right - iv found somewhere to get the testosterone test done. what tests exactly do I need to get as there are a variety. I asked for a testosterone test and they said do I want just testosterone or free testosterone aswel? im assuming I need both? also is there anything else worthwhile getting tested whilst im there????? info will be much appreciated


----------



## Sams

Pscarb said:


> PP - you have to see that recovering the HPTA and increasing sperm count, motility etc can be separated you do not need high levels of test or to be fully recovered to have a decent sperm but of course it helps...
> 
> a person with a fully recovered HPTA might have a low sperm count or abnormal sperm heads/motility this is where proviron would help a great deal....
> 
> i think for James his priority is to begin recovery so that some sperm is produced then after this stage concentrate on the sperm side when it comes to medication as time off will recover the HPTA on its own....
> 
> HCG and clomid are useful how useful depends on the extent of shut down...
> 
> James it was a months gap between my first and second sperm test and they quadrupled in that time with proviron there is nothing to say high dose of proviron may start the lads to get swimming


Hi Mate,

Not had time to read the whole thread, but will do this afternoon.

Quick question, with the use or proviron, clomid and HCG is it possible to conceive whilst on test ?

Also do you know anyone that has conceived whilst on ?

I have read some of your other posts where you suggest it is almost always possible to reverse infertility through long term steroid use ?

Thanks


----------



## 3752

yes me and my wife conceived our 3rd child whilst i was on a Tren/Test cycle i used the Prov/HCG/Tamox stack for 5 months before the cycle and continued through the cycle, it was a 8 week cycle Joe was conceived 6 weeks in


----------



## schonvergeben

@Pscarb: what is the Proviron/HCG/Tamox stack?

Would like to use this or an other protocol while on cycle to become fertile again. I did nothing to cover fertility during the last year, but now I decided the other way round.

But what I will nit do, is come off.

Startet about one sear ago with 250mg Test e e5d, after about 20weeks I raised to 500mg e5d for several weeks or months, then lowered a little and stacked with equipose. After This stack I continued with test only around 500mg e5d, and switched to 125mg Test e7d with Tren H, then Tren Ace 100mg e2d still with 125mg e7d.

So is there any protocol I can try? It's nit a drama if it will not work. But would like to try a protocol if there is one for my situation.

I will still use tren And I think I will raise the Tren A dose to 525mg ew 1.5ml e2d


----------



## The doog

With regards to male fertility is a lower FSH level better (elevated levels in women mean infertility I believe)? Is it the same for guys? Looking on the web I've found some reports of men having FSH well above range but zero sperm count. Does it work like LH where the higher FSH out put is trying to increase sperm production? Assuming that LH and test were normal.

Obviously 0.0 FSH output would be bad. I'm talking lower range.

Anyone know how it works?


----------



## hackskii

You just want things in range, intra-testicular testosterone is many many times higher than serum, and acts along with the FSH to produce sperm.


----------



## sitries

Hello

So I decided to get my bloods done after abusing steroids in the past (long cycles). I haven't touched anything for a good 6 months. Here are my results - all looking on the low side to me!! Am I screwed!!!!!???

Test - 9

FSH - 1.7

LH - 3.8

Oestradiol - <44

If these results are as low as I think they are then is there anything I can do or has the horse bolted and the damage been done????


----------



## milos1

sitries said:


> Hello
> 
> So I decided to get my bloods done after abusing steroids in the past (long cycles). I haven't touched anything for a good 6 months. Here are my results - all looking on the low side to me!! Am I screwed!!!!!???
> 
> Test - 9
> 
> FSH - 1.7
> 
> LH - 3.8
> 
> Oestradiol - <44
> 
> If these results are as low as I think they are then is there anything I can do or has the horse bolted and the damage been done????


Six months isn't really long enough to recover can take 1 year to 18 months..presuming you didn't have low test before you started cycling.


----------



## hackskii

I see there is a page 22 but you cant get there?

Can anyone else get to page 22?


----------



## hackskii

hackskii said:


> I see there is a page 22 but you cant get there?
> 
> Can anyone else get to page 22?


Weird, now I am on 22..lol


----------



## sitries

I didn't get bloods back before when I started cycling. the other thing is that these tests were done at 5pm. Could this be why the test levels are so low???? if I had of got it done at say 8am how much higher do you think it would be???


----------



## sitries

your input would be appreciated hackski


----------



## Bigh260782

milos1 said:


> Six months isn't really long enough to recover can take 1 year to 18 months..presuming you didn't have low test before you started cycling.


I agree ! As I explained in my post my test levels took over a year to go back to normal .

Your sperm is categorised as well by mobility and amount etc.

My sperm count went from 0-50 million in 6 months but there was still a high percentage of inactive or non mobile/slow sperm


----------



## hackskii

sitries said:


> I didn't get bloods back before when I started cycling. the other thing is that these tests were done at 5pm. Could this be why the test levels are so low???? if I had of got it done at say 8am how much higher do you think it would be???


Yes, at 5:00 it probably would be its lowest, at 8:00 around the highest.


----------



## sitries

That is good to know. My doctor has now returned my free test results (apparently they take 5 days to come back) and he has advised me that these are also low and he has advised me not to take any 'pharmaceuticals' for 8 weeks and then get re tested!



hackskii said:


> View attachment 148593
> View attachment 148594
> 
> 
> Yes, at 5:00 it probably would be its lowest, at 8:00 around the highest.


----------



## hackskii

sitries said:


> That is good to know. My doctor has now returned my free test results (apparently they take 5 days to come back) and he has advised me that these are also low and he has advised me not to take any 'pharmaceuticals' for 8 weeks and then get re tested!


Bless his heart.

Lets not take anything to bump up the numbers for quality of life.

That makes perfect sense to me. :lol:


----------



## 19072

So getting my meds together for after my wedding when baby making starts..

I know it's against the rules to ask for sources but where the feck can ya find hmg. Can't source any at all


----------



## Jim Stol

Hey guys, amazing thread, Hackskii your posts are very helpful.

Between 2008 - 2011, I did 3 cycles with Deca and Test with no serious PCT. (used only Nolva)

For 2 years now I'm trying to get my wife pregn, with no success.

At September I did blood test and sperm count with results LH-1.2, FSH-0.7, Test-350. Sperm count 11 million and motility 9%.

I visited three docs and they were telling me mumbo jumbo and that everything seems fine.

Hopefully I came across this thread and decided to do a PCT with HCG, rFSH, Clomid and Nolva.

So, I used 6 x 1500IU HCG, 6 x 150IU rFSH, 2 x 50mg Clomid for 30 days and 20mg Nolva for 45 days. (January 2014)

2 weeks ago did tests. Results were: LH-4, FSH-0.8, Test-696. Sperm count 12 million and motility 8%.

Guys I'm desperate. Although LH and Test are fine, FSH and Sperm count are the same.

Any opinions? Is the FSH responsible? What should I do?

I've forgot to mention that I'm 35 years old.


----------



## The doog

Jim Stol said:


> Hey guys, amazing thread, Hackskii your posts are very helpful.
> 
> Between 2008 - 2011, I did 3 cycles with Deca and Test with no serious PCT. (used only Nolva)
> 
> For 2 years now I'm trying to get my wife pregn, with no success.
> 
> At September I did blood test and sperm count with results LH-1.2, FSH-0.7, Test-350. Sperm count 11 million and motility 9%.
> 
> I visited three docs and they were telling me mumbo jumbo and that everything seems fine.
> 
> Hopefully I came across this thread and decided to do a PCT with HCG, rFSH, Clomid and Nolva.
> 
> So, I used 6 x 1500IU HCG, 6 x 150IU rFSH, 2 x 50mg Clomid for 30 days and 20mg Nolva for 45 days. (January 2014)
> 
> 2 weeks ago did tests. Results were: LH-4, FSH-0.8, Test-696. Sperm count 12 million and motility 8%.
> 
> Guys I'm desperate. Although LH and Test are fine, FSH and Sperm count are the same.
> 
> Any opinions? Is the FSH responsible? What should I do?
> 
> I've forgot to mention that I'm 35 years old.


Well I'm no expert but as you have sperm already then Proviron might well help boost the numbers and motility. A low dose clomid as well. Sorry but I'm not sure on dosages. @Pscarb @hackskii I think HMG needs to be run for a few months to have an effect.

Add in supplements to support health sperm and remember that it take 3-4 months to make sperm so you'll need to run all this for at least that long before getting retested.

2000mg l-cartinine

5000mg l-arginine

800iu vitamin e (BP)

1500mg vitamin c

5g fish oil

2000mg maca

4800mg lecithin

200ug selenium

2 x zma

Good luck!


----------



## Jim Stol

Thanks mate, I'm currently using some of these supplements. I'm going to add the others too. About Proviron I'm not so sure. Some say it helps, others say it doesn't...


----------



## The doog

I've heard proviron helps if you have sperm over a certain level if will increase it. If your shooting blanks it won't suddenly get you to 50 million.

I don't know why your FSH level is so low two years after stopping AAS? Do you have blood results from before Steroids?

Will wait to hear from pscarb as he has experience in this field I believe.


----------



## Bigh260782

The doog said:


> Well I'm no expert but as you have sperm already then Proviron might well help boost the numbers and motility. A low dose clomid as well. Sorry but I'm not sure on dosages. @Pscarb @hackskii I think HMG needs to be run for a few months to have an effect.
> 
> Add in supplements to support health sperm and remember that it take 3-4 months to make sperm so you'll need to run all this for at least that long before getting retested.
> 
> 2000mg l-cartinine
> 
> 5000mg l-arginine
> 
> 800iu vitamin e (BP)
> 
> 1500mg vitamin c
> 
> 5g fish oil
> 
> 2000mg maca
> 
> 4800mg lecithin
> 
> 200ug selenium
> 
> 2 x zma
> 
> Good luck!


Hmmm , are you sure it isn't just you and not the gear ? How long were you off exactly ? And how long have you been off Til now ?


----------



## Bigh260782

Jim Stol said:


> Hey guys, amazing thread, Hackskii your posts are very helpful.
> 
> Between 2008 - 2011, I did 3 cycles with Deca and Test with no serious PCT. (used only Nolva)
> 
> For 2 years now I'm trying to get my wife pregn, with no success.
> 
> At September I did blood test and sperm count with results LH-1.2, FSH-0.7, Test-350. Sperm count 11 million and motility 9%.
> 
> I visited three docs and they were telling me mumbo jumbo and that everything seems fine.
> 
> Hopefully I came across this thread and decided to do a PCT with HCG, rFSH, Clomid and Nolva.
> 
> So, I used 6 x 1500IU HCG, 6 x 150IU rFSH, 2 x 50mg Clomid for 30 days and 20mg Nolva for 45 days. (January 2014)
> 
> 2 weeks ago did tests. Results were: LH-4, FSH-0.8, Test-696. Sperm count 12 million and motility 8%.
> 
> Guys I'm desperate. Although LH and Test are fine, FSH and Sperm count are the same.
> 
> Any opinions? Is the FSH responsible? What should I do?
> 
> I've forgot to mention that I'm 35 years old.


Hi mate

Hmmm , are you sure it isn't just you and not the gear ? How long were you off in between cycles and how long you been off Til now ?


----------



## Bigh260782

Bigh260782 said:


> Hi mate
> 
> Hmmm , are you sure it isn't just you and not the gear ? How long were you off in between cycles and how long you been off Til now ?


Sorry wrong post


----------



## Jim Stol

Bigh260782 said:


> Hi mate
> 
> Hmmm , are you sure it isn't just you and not the gear ? How long were you off in between cycles and how long you been off Til now ?


1 year off between cycles. Last cycle 2011. A year ago a doctor prescribed TRT. I was on TRT for 3 months. Before roids I'd never had blood tests for Test - LH - FSH. The fact that after the PCT (January) Test and LH increased to normal confuses me. If I had a problem before roids, how these values became normal with the PCT?


----------



## hackskii

Simple.

Clomid will move FSH up depending on the amount by as much as 50%.

I also would consider proviron, 25mg 2 to 3 times a day.

Here is a study that shows positive results with proviron: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892728

Clomid can be 50mg ED for 2 months, that should move your numbers up big time.


----------



## Jim Stol

Thanks Hackskii,

The proviron study is encouraging. If all these won't work what is your opinion on HMG?


----------



## 39005

im helping someone via pm at the moment and have shown them that study @hackskii , my opinion was that if you have lowish FSH try clomid therapy first , if you have normal FSH try provirion first (rather than take both compounds at the same time , less is better imo) , that study is encouraging except for one small part.

T



> wo hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. *Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated*. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.


..ok its only 25% but it means taking both compounds at the same time could be counter productive, i know many people here have taken both compounds and conceived fine so its not that much of a worry , im just interested in your opinion.


----------



## Jim Stol

Well, I think that makes sense what you've mentioned. I came across a study on rats: http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1380802623_****tu%20et%20al..pdf

The research claims that proviron had negative effects on sperm quality. However, I've seen people in this thread that were helped by using proviron.


----------



## hackskii

aqualung said:


> im helping someone via pm at the moment and have shown them that study @hackskii , my opinion was that if you have lowish FSH try clomid therapy first , if you have normal FSH try provirion first (rather than take both compounds at the same time , less is better imo) , that study is encouraging except for one small part.
> 
> T
> 
> ..ok its only 25% but it means taking both compounds at the same time could be counter productive, i know many people here have taken both compounds and conceived fine so its not that much of a worry , im just interested in your opinion.


Well, Dutchscot used the Power PCT and did it for fertility, he added in some other things that I would recommend that was suggested earlier in this thread, but he had success twice with the Power PCT, and the supplements, along with proviron.

I think he want as high as 150mg proviron a day though.

But, I have heard of more than one guy have success with that, and dutch did it twice.

That is why I suggested lowish dose.

But, we do know that cloimid can move FSH levels up by 50% so that one for sure probably should be in the mix, along with some antioxidants, and l-carnitine.

Here is a study on that: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028202046794


----------



## 39005

what were the supplements scott? can you remember so i dont have to trawl the forums :laugh:


----------



## hackskii

Couple of pages back, I can put another list together for fertility and sperm.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> Couple of pages back, I can put another list together for fertility and sperm.


I'd be interested in said list.


----------



## JR8908

sitries said:


> Hello
> 
> So I decided to get my bloods done after abusing steroids in the past (long cycles). I haven't touched anything for a good 6 months. Here are my results - all looking on the low side to me!! Am I screwed!!!!!???
> 
> Test - 9
> 
> FSH - 1.7
> 
> LH - 3.8
> 
> Oestradiol - <44
> 
> If these results are as low as I think they are then is there anything I can do or has the horse bolted and the damage been done????


Your earlier post said that you were off for 2 years but then you say you have been off 6 months?

How do you feel at that test level? Libido? Morning wood? Energy? Etc. Only ask as my level naturally is around 9 nmol and that's 9 months post cycle


----------



## gashead88

afternoon,

me and my gf have been trying for about 6 months now with no luck, she has a kid with her ex and seeing as after 6 years with my ex and 2 years with my current gf i've not been able to get any of them pregnant i'm getting seriously worried about myself.

went to the doctors back in january and they said they would put me foward to have a spermcount done at hospital but still haven't heard anything back yet!

was just wondering what could help me out in this instance?

Thanks


----------



## The doog

A sperm count. Speak to your GP and get referred to a private hospital.


----------



## gashead88

The doog said:


> A sperm count. Speak to your GP and get referred to a private hospital.


That's what i did, still waiting to hear back from them


----------



## hackskii

A new study found a combination of folic acid and zinc supplements increased sperm count by 74% in men with fertility problems.

Here is the list:

Folic Acid @ 5mg per day

Zinc Sulfate 66mg

Using those two alone guys had a 74% increase in total normal sperm count and a minor (4%) increase in abnormal sperm count.

Now, it is suggested that anti-oxidants be taken as well.

Vitamin E

Vitamin C

Vitamin B12

Selenium

Carnitine

Raw sunflower seeds, and also raw pumpkin seeds (also good for parasites)

Remember also that Vitamin D is necessary for many things, including healthy testosterone issues, and prostate protection.

Vitamin A is needed too so 1 cod liver tab a day.

Some Magnesium would not be a bod idea either.


----------



## gashead88

hackskii said:


> A new study found a combination of folic acid and zinc supplements increased sperm count by 74% in men with fertility problems.
> 
> Here is the list:
> 
> Folic Acid @ 5mg per day
> 
> Zinc Sulfate 66mg
> 
> Using those two alone guys had a 74% increase in total normal sperm count and a minor (4%) increase in abnormal sperm count.
> 
> Now, it is suggested that anti-oxidants be taken as well.
> 
> Vitamin E
> 
> Vitamin C
> 
> Vitamin B12
> 
> Selenium
> 
> Carnitine
> 
> Raw sunflower seeds, and also raw pumpkin seeds (also good for parasites)
> 
> Remember also that Vitamin D is necessary for many things, including healthy testosterone issues, and prostate protection.
> 
> Vitamin A is needed too so 1 cod liver tab a day.
> 
> Some Magnesium would not be a bod idea either.


it that 66mg per day?

and also guessing its approx 1 tab of eahc a,c,d,selnium etc...


----------



## hackskii

I know that too much zinc is not good, and many suggest no more than 25mg max a day, but for some reason it is used for fertility.


----------



## gashead88

can you buy zinc sulfate anywhere or is it just normal zinc struggling to find it :\ sounding like a complete k**b now aint i lol!


----------



## 12bucklemyshoe

Jim Stol said:


> Hey guys, amazing thread, Hackskii your posts are very helpful.
> 
> Between 2008 - 2011, I did 3 cycles with Deca and Test with no serious PCT. (used only Nolva)
> 
> For 2 years now I'm trying to get my wife pregn, with no success.
> 
> At September I did blood test and sperm count with results LH-1.2, FSH-0.7, Test-350. Sperm count 11 million and motility 9%.
> 
> I visited three docs and they were telling me mumbo jumbo and that everything seems fine.
> 
> Hopefully I came across this thread and decided to do a PCT with HCG, rFSH, Clomid and Nolva.
> 
> So, I used 6 x 1500IU HCG, 6 x 150IU rFSH, 2 x 50mg Clomid for 30 days and 20mg Nolva for 45 days. (January 2014)
> 
> 2 weeks ago did tests. Results were: LH-4, FSH-0.8, Test-696. Sperm count 12 million and motility 8%.
> 
> Guys I'm desperate. Although LH and Test are fine, FSH and Sperm count are the same.
> 
> Any opinions? Is the FSH responsible? What should I do?
> 
> I've forgot to mention that I'm 35 years old.


You are going to want to try enclomid. Zuclomid is an agonist at the estrogen receptor and you might be having issues with that, as clomid and nolva are mixed antagonist agonist. I would also try cabergoline, it may be a prolactin issue. High prolactin causes fertility issues. Try adding those two solo, and then along with restart protocol.


----------



## sitries

iv been off for two years other than a small 6 weeker on anavar which was around 6 months ago.

Morning woods not amazing, sex drive isnt great to be fair!!!! to be honest iv thought **** it after getting my results and im back on again ( 250 mg test, 600mg EQ na 100mg anavar for 12 weeks)!!!!!!!!!! after this i will do an aggresive pct, get on a load of fertility supplements and then get a re test 6 months later at 8am this time and see where im at!!



JR8908 said:


> Your earlier post said that you were off for 2 years but then you say you have been off 6 months?
> 
> How do you feel at that test level? Libido? Morning wood? Energy? Etc. Only ask as my level naturally is around 9 nmol and that's 9 months post cycle


----------



## 19072

Right guys it's time for me to order my meds for fertility recovery. Getting married in 4weeks and we are hoping to have the Mrs pregnant around Christmas time.

At present I'm on test-e and one rip (prop,tren,mast) finishing one rip this week and will continue test at 500mf up til wedding.

Here is what I have planned once test esters clear (3weeks after last jab)

Hcg: 2500iu EOD for 16days

Hmg: 150iu EOD for 16days

Proviron: 200mg ED for 45days

Nolvadex: 20mg ED for 45days

Clomid: 100mg ED for 30days

FeetilAid: as per btl dosage

Tauro test v2: as per btl dosage

Vitamin d3: 7500iu ED

Vitamin E: 1000iu ED

Cod liver oil: 10ml ED

Zma: as per btl dosage

What you think guys ? @hackskii @Pscarb


----------



## 3752

herc said:


> What you think guys ? @hackskii @Pscarb


i would do something like this....

Hcg: 2000iu EOD for 16days

Hmg: 75iu EOD for 16days

Proviron: 200mg ED for 45days

Nolvadex: 20mg ED for 45days

Clomid: 50mg ED for 30days

FeetilAid: as per btl dosage

Vitamin d3: 7500iu ED

Vitamin E: 800iu ED

Cod liver oil: 10ml ED

Zma: as per btl dosage

i do not see the need for the Tauro Test as your aim is to be fertile and this product offers nothing for that purpose......

i would drop the climid down to 50mg i find this does to be adequate, also you don't need 2500iu of HCG 2000iu is plenty.

the HMG only needs to be at 75iu i have had great success at this dose....

just my opinion as this stack will certainly work but you might have to continue with the HMG and HCG at a lower dose(HCG) and the Proviron.....


----------



## 19072

Perfect thanks Paul. Not planning a baby right away but want to get things right as I know if will take me some time to recover.

Been on aas since 2009. Have done an easy dozen cycles and pct at the end of them all. My only problem is I never followed the time on = time off approach and jumped back on after a month so unsure how that will play on me.

Thanks a mil buddy. Really want a kid and hopefully it all pans out for me


----------



## 3752

herc said:


> Perfect thanks Paul. Not planning a baby right away but want to get things right as I know if will take me some time to recover.
> 
> Been on aas since 2009. Have done an easy dozen cycles and pct at the end of them all. My only problem is I never followed the time on = time off approach and jumped back on after a month so unsure how that will play on me.
> 
> Thanks a mil buddy. Really want a kid and hopefully it all pans out for me


no problem buddy, i have used a similar stack to this on many guys and 80% of them got there missus pregnant even after years of trying, cannot say it will do the business for you but it is a good base to start from.....good luck buddy...


----------



## hackskii

Not bad but use the hCG every 3 days, and drop that to 2000iu per shot.

Run the hMG same days as the hCG but I would modify things a bit more.

No need to run the clomid during, I have found that it does move FSH up while on clomid during the use of hCG but LH falls to the lowest detectable ranges at .1

So, as you see clomid will move FSH while on hCG, but not LH, and I assume that perhaps using the hMG you may also probably stop FSH from being made as well as the body will be getting this from the hMG so no doubt no gonadotropins will be endogenously released.

So, run the nolva at 20mg while on the hmG/hCG protocol every day, along with the vitamin D.

Now, after last shot you can add 2 days later the clomid at 100mg per day.

100mg per day doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50% between 5 to 7 days, but beings that your gonadotropins will be hammered, you will need to run the clomid for at least 2 weeks at that dose of 100mg.

After the 2 weeks you can drop it to 50mg for 2 to 3 weeks more.

Then you will drop it again to 25mg a day for another 2 weeks, then EOD.

The nuts should be responsive to gonadotropins once you stop the hCG/hMG protocol, the pituitary will be low so the SERMS will help here but tapering will allow a gradual transition as the more the pituitary comes online the more it will be influenced with the SERMS.

The nolva will stay there the whole time, and can be dropped past the clomid to 10mg per day.

Doses as low as 12.5mg per day of clomid has shown to raise LH, and FSH levels, but not when you are bottom end of detection levels, more will be needed.


----------



## Laura K. Lawles

jonti1leg said:


> this is definatly going on my subscribe items.... althoug ive only been using a few months, my wife and i are trying to conveive again..."babydancing" as she calls it at all the right times, testing with ovulation kits etc. i am worried that even my short term use of AAs will have impacted on my nads and sperm etc and although quite mild doseges i have been taking, can see noticable difference in my appearence. i am hoping that this thread will give me the info that can re-boost my sperm etc (although i have not had it tested yet ! ! male pride i think at the mo) ive heard that HCG and CLOMID should boost things back up to normal, along with Tribulis. But dont take that as advice, just what i heard and am hoping to get some good advice from here.
> 
> SUPERCELL..thanks for posting...ive been thinking bout posting something for a week or so but as you say...touchy subject for some...Genuine good luck to you and anyone else in the same predicament. Jon


HCG will work fine for you, but clomid or clomiphene citrate is proposed medicine for treating infertility in women caused due to an-ovulation problem.

Yes it is true that this increases the muscle power in men, but has negative impact on your fertility if taken for long period.

Also in given to women (Clomid) there is a possibility that you will be gifted with twines or triplets.


----------



## The doog

herc said:


> Right guys it's time for me to order my meds for fertility recovery. Getting married in 4weeks and we are hoping to have the Mrs pregnant around Christmas time.
> 
> At present I'm on test-e and one rip (prop,tren,mast) finishing one rip this week and will continue test at 500mf up til wedding.
> 
> Here is what I have planned once test esters clear (3weeks after last jab)
> 
> Hcg: 2500iu EOD for 16days
> 
> Hmg: 150iu EOD for 16days
> 
> Proviron: 200mg ED for 45days
> 
> Nolvadex: 20mg ED for 45days
> 
> Clomid: 100mg ED for 30days
> 
> FeetilAid: as per btl dosage
> 
> Tauro test v2: as per btl dosage
> 
> Vitamin d3: 7500iu ED
> 
> Vitamin E: 1000iu ED
> 
> Cod liver oil: 10ml ED
> 
> Zma: as per btl dosage
> 
> What you think guys ? @hackskii @Pscarb


Why use the HMG straight away when you might not even need it? It's expensive stuff and all protocols I've seen for male fertility using it have lasted months. That would cost a bomb.

Personally I would run a power pct and then play the waiting game. Sperm should be back to normal in 6 months or so unless there's a problem. If no baby by six months, get a sperm check, if it looks bad then go down the extreme route.


----------



## str4nger

Ive been looking to buy some quality hmg but my source cannot get any

would it make much of a difference to increase sperm if I am taking hcg at 500iu every mon and thursday


----------



## hackskii

str4nger said:


> Ive been looking to buy some quality hmg but my source cannot get any
> 
> would it make much of a difference to increase sperm if I am taking hcg at 500iu every mon and thursday


Depending on which hCG there would be no action of FSH or very little.


----------



## str4nger

hackskii said:


> Depending on which hCG there would be no action of FSH or very little.


how much hmg would you add to the hcg?


----------



## hackskii

low dose 75iu perhaps twice a week.


----------



## zeevolution

hackskii said:


> low dose 75iu perhaps twice a week.


hey hackskii mate. cheers for all the help youve given me so far. after pct im a bit shattered but it has been 5 months and i want to test my sperm count. if you were going to go to Fertility clinic that is private in the UK where would you go? or could one use this to test sperm count?

im trying to be somewhat cost effective and i dont have POA for 6 months. so hence not at GP and id prefer it off the records for later down the track health insurance/whatever.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FERTILITY-Colour-Test-Male-Fertility/dp/B001FOBGQW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

cheers


----------



## hackskii

zeevolution said:


> hey hackskii mate. cheers for all the help youve given me so far. after pct im a bit shattered but it has been 5 months and i want to test my sperm count. if you were going to go to Fertility clinic that is private in the UK where would you go? or could one use this to test sperm count?
> 
> im trying to be somewhat cost effective and i dont have POA for 6 months. so hence not at GP and id prefer it off the records for later down the track health insurance/whatever.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/FERTILITY-Colour-Test-Male-Fertility/dp/B001FOBGQW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> 
> cheers


I live in the USA so I cant help you there, and not familiar with that product but have known guys to test their own sperm.


----------



## zeevolution

hackskii said:


> I live in the USA so I cant help you there, and not familiar with that product but have known guys to test their own sperm.


not a problem. kind of you to be on the forums and not live here. majority would be here I would assume. ones who aren't typically aren't in UK or US.


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> Not bad but use the hCG every 3 days, and drop that to 2000iu per shot.
> 
> Run the hMG same days as the hCG but I would modify things a bit more.
> 
> No need to run the clomid during, I have found that it does move FSH up while on clomid during the use of hCG but LH falls to the lowest detectable ranges at .1
> 
> So, as you see clomid will move FSH while on hCG, but not LH, and I assume that perhaps using the hMG you may also probably stop FSH from being made as well as the body will be getting this from the hMG so no doubt no gonadotropins will be endogenously released.
> 
> So, run the nolva at 20mg while on the hmG/hCG protocol every day, along with the vitamin D.
> 
> Now, after last shot you can add 2 days later the clomid at 100mg per day.
> 
> 100mg per day doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50% between 5 to 7 days, but beings that your gonadotropins will be hammered, you will need to run the clomid for at least 2 weeks at that dose of 100mg.
> 
> After the 2 weeks you can drop it to 50mg for 2 to 3 weeks more.
> 
> Then you will drop it again to 25mg a day for another 2 weeks, then EOD.
> 
> The nuts should be responsive to gonadotropins once you stop the hCG/hMG protocol, the pituitary will be low so the SERMS will help here but tapering will allow a gradual transition as the more the pituitary comes online the more it will be influenced with the SERMS.
> 
> The nolva will stay there the whole time, and can be dropped past the clomid to 10mg per day.
> 
> Doses as low as 12.5mg per day of clomid has shown to raise LH, and FSH levels, but not when you are bottom end of detection levels, more will be needed.


Very good info yet again, in a couple months we are going to start for our second - 2 years after we started with our first with great success because of posts from yourself. This time I've been abit naughtier, higher doses of test and a bit of tren here and there ... So will be interesting, so will be looking through all of your posts from the last few years lol!


----------



## The doog

> Doses as low as 12.5mg per day of clomid has shown to raise LH, and FSH levels, but not when you are bottom end of detection levels, more will be needed.


Hi @hackskii

So if you took clomid at 12.5 or even 25mg ed from the start of a short cycle. Could you stop FSH from bottoming out in the first place?


----------



## hackskii

The doog said:


> Hi @hackskii
> 
> So if you took clomid at 12.5 or even 25mg ed from the start of a short cycle. Could you stop FSH from bottoming out in the first place?


Man, that would be hard to say for certain, depending on the person some shutdown harder than others.


----------



## The doog

hackskii said:


> Man, that would be hard to say for certain, depending on the person some shutdown harder than others.


Hmm. I'll give it a go at 12.5mg ed through my 6 week Test/Tbol cycle and get an FSH/LH blood test on week 5. It will be good to see if it has any effect.


----------



## hackskii

The doog said:


> Hmm. I'll give it a go at 12.5mg ed through my 6 week Test/Tbol cycle and get an FSH/LH blood test on week 5. It will be good to see if it has any effect.


Now we are talking, that sounds like a fantastic idea, that will say much.

Thanks.


----------



## The doog

hackskii said:


> Now we are talking, that sounds like a fantastic idea, that will say much.
> 
> Thanks.


Only problem is I would have to do another cycle the same without the clomid to get a reference. But, if I had a positive result from the blood test where FSH was still being produced then I wouldn't want to cycle without the clomid. ;-)

Could I assume using HCG on cycle as well that if the clomid worked I would have a positive reading of FSH, while LH would be at 0.1? As you said that LH production will be turned off when mimicking it with HCG. Where as FSH won't be?


----------



## adzr

Guys I've not taken anything for a few years and been trying for a baby for over a year now, all tests have come back fine i was told, i think sperm was about 15 million. Just looking for something to boost it up to give a better chance. From what I've read it sounds like i could take cliomid and proviron. Will this help me boost sperm count? Also id like to start taking a low dose of HGH, just for general health and hopefully help a knee and shoulder injury. Would the HGH affect the sperm in any way, good or bad?

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Try some Semenax.


----------



## SteroidSteve

I was just reading through this thread and thinking exactly the same as you. See a urologist would be my suggestion.



danimal said:


> surely you only need to get some sperm going mate then you could have it frozen that way if you strugggeld to get the girl pregnant normally or you needed to go back on gear for your career they could use artificiall insemination or summin?


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> Not bad but use the hCG every 3 days, and drop that to 2000iu per shot.
> 
> Run the hMG same days as the hCG but I would modify things a bit more.
> 
> No need to run the clomid during, I have found that it does move FSH up while on clomid during the use of hCG but LH falls to the lowest detectable ranges at .1
> 
> So, as you see clomid will move FSH while on hCG, but not LH, and I assume that perhaps using the hMG you may also probably stop FSH from being made as well as the body will be getting this from the hMG so no doubt no gonadotropins will be endogenously released.
> 
> So, run the nolva at 20mg while on the hmG/hCG protocol every day, along with the vitamin D.
> 
> Now, after last shot you can add 2 days later the clomid at 100mg per day.
> 
> 100mg per day doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50% between 5 to 7 days, but beings that your gonadotropins will be hammered, you will need to run the clomid for at least 2 weeks at that dose of 100mg.
> 
> After the 2 weeks you can drop it to 50mg for 2 to 3 weeks more.
> 
> Then you will drop it again to 25mg a day for another 2 weeks, then EOD.
> 
> The nuts should be responsive to gonadotropins once you stop the hCG/hMG protocol, the pituitary will be low so the SERMS will help here but tapering will allow a gradual transition as the more the pituitary comes online the more it will be influenced with the SERMS.
> 
> The nolva will stay there the whole time, and can be dropped past the clomid to 10mg per day.
> 
> Doses as low as 12.5mg per day of clomid has shown to raise LH, and FSH levels, but not when you are bottom end of detection levels, more will be needed.


Right the time has come. last few weeks ive been on 1ml test prop every 3 days along with 1000iu hcg ew.

I have just ordered the hmg / hcg should arrive soon. Got the clomid, nolva, proviron on hand. boy this is one expsensive pct lol...

So will continue the test-prop every 3 days til my hcg/hmg arrives.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> Not bad but use the hCG every 3 days, and drop that to 2000iu per shot.
> 
> Run the hMG same days as the hCG but I would modify things a bit more.
> 
> No need to run the clomid during, I have found that it does move FSH up while on clomid during the use of hCG but LH falls to the lowest detectable ranges at .1
> 
> So, as you see clomid will move FSH while on hCG, but not LH, and I assume that perhaps using the hMG you may also probably stop FSH from being made as well as the body will be getting this from the hMG so no doubt no gonadotropins will be endogenously released.
> 
> So, run the nolva at 20mg while on the hmG/hCG protocol every day, along with the vitamin D.
> 
> Now, after last shot you can add 2 days later the clomid at 100mg per day.
> 
> 100mg per day doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50% between 5 to 7 days, but beings that your gonadotropins will be hammered, you will need to run the clomid for at least 2 weeks at that dose of 100mg.
> 
> After the 2 weeks you can drop it to 50mg for 2 to 3 weeks more.
> 
> Then you will drop it again to 25mg a day for another 2 weeks, then EOD.
> 
> The nuts should be responsive to gonadotropins once you stop the hCG/hMG protocol, the pituitary will be low so the SERMS will help here but tapering will allow a gradual transition as the more the pituitary comes online the more it will be influenced with the SERMS.
> 
> The nolva will stay there the whole time, and can be dropped past the clomid to 10mg per day.
> 
> Doses as low as 12.5mg per day of clomid has shown to raise LH, and FSH levels, but not when you are bottom end of detection levels, more will be needed.


 @hackskii - I am about to embark on this next week.

Quick run down if you could look over it.

Hcg 2500iu EOD - 8shots

Hmg 75iu EOD - 8shots

Nolvadex 20mg ED

*Once i finish the hcg/hmg:*

Clomid 100mg ED 2weeks

Clomid 50mg ED 3weeks

Clomid 25mg ED 2weeks

Clomid 25mg EOD 2weeks

Nolvadex 10mg ED

*Natural Supps will be run from start:*

FertilAid: as per btl dosage

Tauro test v2: as per btl dosage

Vitamin d3: 7500iu ED

Vitamin E: 1000iu ED

Cod liver oil: 10ml ED

Zma: as per btl dosage

One thing i need help on. When do i start the Proviron? With the hcg/hmg right through or start when i start the clomid.

Thanks again buddy. Hoping to have the wife pregnant this side of christmas. Finger&toes crossed.

Herc


----------



## hackskii

Proviron probably wont be needed, but if you like you can use it.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> Proviron probably wont be needed, but if you like you can use it.


Yeh ill throw it in. Shall i start it alongside the hCG/hMG?


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> Yeh ill throw it in. Shall i start it alongside the hCG/hMG?


Absolutely start that today.


----------



## 19072

Start it now as in before the hcg? I start the hcg this week.

Appreciate the help hackskii! Fingers crossed


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> Start it now as in before the hcg? I start the hcg this week.
> 
> Appreciate the help hackskii! Fingers crossed


I don't think it will matter much either way, so what ever you decide is fine.


----------



## 19072

@hackskii - still on the fertility programme you set me up with. Currently two more shots of hcg/hmg then it's onto the clomid.

Just a quick one. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to running peds/hgh. Getting very sore after training for days and finding recovery a lot hard than usual.

Was thinking ghrp2/mod grf along with igf 1lr3

Would this affect my recovery ?

Thanks buddy

Owe ya one


----------



## hackskii

HGH would be a good idea.


----------



## swell

I know any kind of cycle if done rite or wrong can be a gamble with the twins. But in general, would the odd couple of cycles affect you as much as say someone who's been consistent for years, obviously the more you take the worse it is.... Isit??


----------



## 19072

Finished up my hcg/hmg few days passed and im on the following ED:

Clomid 100mg

Proviron 150mg

Nolva 20mg

Natty supps:

Taura test

Fertiliad

7500iu vit D3

1000mg vit e

Running alongside all this is 4 x 100mcg ghrp/mod grf (morning,lunch,pwo,bed) stomach is in bits ATM. anyone alt sites @Pscarb ?

Everything is feeling good. Nuts have responded well to the hcg and feeling fuller. no ED/libido issues (touch wood)

I bought an online fertility test and i came out fertile on the chart (over 20mil) There were about 6colours variations for fertile and my colour came back one of from the highest range.

At present we have just been doing the deed and not following if/when we need to do it for ovaluation reasons. We are away end of the month to amsterdam so we are waiting til we get back to give it 100%.

I will be booking an appointment with the docs for when i get back to get a full sperm anaylis.

Fingers crossed eh 

P.s Thanks to @hackskii and @Pscarb for all the advise


----------



## hackskii

Lookin good man


----------



## 19072

Looking at getting a Spearm Anaylis done - When is best to get it checked guys???

Completed hcg/hmg protocol (2500iu Hcg / 75iu Hmg EOD 8shots)

Currently starting week 2 of the SERMS (100mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva, 150mg Proviron) along with natty supps.

The wifes you know what came two days ago so nothing this month guys.

@hackskii

Thanks,


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> Looking at getting a Spearm Anaylis done - When is best to get it checked guys???
> 
> Completed hcg/hmg protocol (2500iu Hcg / 75iu Hmg EOD 8shots)
> 
> Currently starting week 2 of the SERMS (100mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva, 150mg Proviron) along with natty supps.
> 
> The wifes you know what came two days ago so nothing this month guys.
> 
> @hackskii
> 
> Thanks,


Well, you got another month then...

I would blow out the pipes though.


----------



## 19072

@hackskii

when i finished my cycle back in sep i was shooting larger volume of semen. last few weeks its seems the volume is good bit less than before. This a concern?


----------



## str4nger

just thought id add my 2 cents to this thread

came off november 13 as my mrs had decided that she wanted to start a family. No luck by february so when to the docs who sent me for a sperm test, came back nill (below 1 million). did another 4 weeks later and the same.

Got referred which took 3 months for an appointment. By this time I had done research and with the help of people on this forum I began running proviron and clomid. June doc sent me for anopther sperm test and it came back as normal.

Then found out that my mrs has hypothyroid which is causing her not to ovulate, so now trying to sort this out while we keep trying


----------



## bigchickenlover

str4nger said:


> just thought id add my 2 cents to this thread
> 
> came off november 13 as my mrs had decided that she wanted to start a family. No luck by february so when to the docs who sent me for a sperm test, came back nill (below 1 million). did another 4 weeks later and the same.
> 
> Got referred which took 3 months for an appointment. By this time I had done research and with the help of people on this forum I began running proviron and clomid. June doc sent me for anopther sperm test and it came back as normal.
> 
> Then found out that my mrs has hypothyroid which is causing her not to ovulate, so now trying to sort this out while we keep trying


Good luck pal its a long road!


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> @hackskii
> 
> when i finished my cycle back in sep i was shooting larger volume of semen. last few weeks its seems the volume is good bit less than before. This a concern?


I would not worry about it, even dehydration can lower the load....lol



str4nger said:


> just thought id add my 2 cents to this thread
> 
> came off november 13 as my mrs had decided that she wanted to start a family. No luck by february so when to the docs who sent me for a sperm test, came back nill (below 1 million). did another 4 weeks later and the same.
> 
> Got referred which took 3 months for an appointment. By this time I had done research and with the help of people on this forum I began running proviron and clomid. June doc sent me for anopther sperm test and it came back as normal.
> 
> Then found out that my mrs has hypothyroid which is causing her not to ovulate, so now trying to sort this out while we keep trying


That is good news, at just 100mg clomid over 5 to 7 days doubles LH output and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.

It probably was the clomid that did this.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> I would not worry about it, even dehydration can lower the load....lol
> 
> That is good news, at just 100mg clomid over 5 to 7 days doubles LH output and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.
> 
> It probably was the clomid that did this.


Thanks buddy.

Currently still on 100mg clomid, 150mg proviron, 20mg nolva) 2nd week of SERMS

I feel i have lost my Libido - not wanting it as much i usually do when im on cycle?? @hackskii any advise?

I can get an erection but i havent had morning wood in few weeks (since finishing hcg/hmg)


----------



## 1manarmy

herc said:


> Thanks buddy.
> 
> Currently still on 100mg clomid, 150mg proviron, 20mg nolva) 2nd week of SERMS
> 
> I feel i have lost my Libido - not wanting it as much i usually do when im on cycle?? @hackskii any advise?
> 
> I can get an erection but i havent had morning wood in few weeks (since finishing hcg/hmg)


That's life man! Itl come back though! The hardest part is mentally knowing your aren't on cycle and the expectation of the constant high libodo! Mine died off for about 3 months before it started coming back slowly


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> Thanks buddy.
> 
> Currently still on 100mg clomid, 150mg proviron, 20mg nolva) 2nd week of SERMS
> 
> I feel i have lost my Libido - not wanting it as much i usually do when im on cycle?? @hackskii any advise?
> 
> I can get an erection but i havent had morning wood in few weeks (since finishing hcg/hmg)


It happens, and is common actually.

Just give it time, things will come back fine.


----------



## john95

I don't know if this is a hijack so I apologize in advance, if it is, I'll start my own thread.

I'm 19, planning on test e cycle in 6 months, if you run the cycle properly, use hcg and PCT for a month with nolva and clomid, take time off in between cycles, will your sperm count still drop? I know if you PCT properly, you are safe but at 19 years old, will the sperm count be affected from a less developed HPTA than someone over, for say, 24 years old?

Planning on two cycles a year with appropriate time off in between. Thanks


----------



## 19072

So far i have completed the following

week 1-2: 20,000iu hcg / 750iu hmg / 20mg Nolva (spaced over 8 shots EOD)

week 3-5: 100mg Clomid ED / 150mg Proviron / 20mg Nolva ED (3wks)

*I start the below this coming monday *

week 6-8: 50mg Clomid ED / 150mg Proviron / 20mg Nolva ED (3wks)

week 8-9: 25mg Clomid ED / 10mg Nolva ED (2wks)

I have taken thoughout PCT: (PurepeptidesUK)

GHRP2 / MOD GRF run at 4 x 100mcg each daily. I will be adding 4iu hyge black tops daily come monday (2iu AM / 2iu PM)

Overall.

- My balls are bigger

- Libidio is coming back

- Feeling better than ever

- Hit 50kg dumbbells last night on incl pressing at 82kg BW x 5reps

- Strength up

Last thing to achieve......... getting the wife pregnant. so the above will be run to the T.


----------



## Mighty Sparrow

herc said:


> So far i have completed the following
> 
> week 1-2: 20,000iu hcg / 750iu hmg / 20mg Nolva (spaced over 10 shots EOD)
> 
> week 3-5: 100mg Clomid ED / 150mg Proviron / 20mg Nolva ED (3wks)
> 
> *I start the below this coming monday *
> 
> week 6-8: 50mg Clomid ED / 150mg Proviron / 20mg Nolva ED (3wks)
> 
> week 8-9: 25mg Clomid ED / 10mg Nolva ED (2wks)
> 
> I have taken thoughout PCT: (PurepeptidesUK)
> 
> GHRP2 / MOD GRF run at 4 x 100mcg each daily. I will be adding 4iu hyge black tops daily come monday (2iu AM / 2iu PM)
> 
> Overall.
> 
> - My balls are bigger
> 
> - Libidio is coming back
> 
> - Feeling better than ever
> 
> - Hit 50kg dumbbells last night on incl pressing at 82kg BW x 5reps
> 
> - Strength up
> 
> Last thing to achieve......... getting the wife pregnant. so the above will be run to the T.


Have you had another sperm sample test to see how you're getting on?


----------



## 19072

Mighty Sparrow said:


> Have you had another sperm sample test to see how you're getting on?


not yet buddy no - Im due to call in to the docs in 2 weeks to get sample done. The wife is ovulating this weekend when we are away on city break so every finger and toe crossed it happens.


----------



## Mighty Sparrow

Fair play mate, good luck this weekend!!


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> So far i have completed the following
> 
> week 1-2: 20,000iu hcg / 750iu hmg / 20mg Nolva (spaced over 10 shots EOD)
> 
> week 3-5: 100mg Clomid ED / 150mg Proviron / 20mg Nolva ED (3wks)
> 
> *I start the below this coming monday *
> 
> week 6-8: 50mg Clomid ED / 150mg Proviron / 20mg Nolva ED (3wks)
> 
> week 8-9: 25mg Clomid ED / 10mg Nolva ED (2wks)
> 
> I have taken thoughout PCT: (PurepeptidesUK)
> 
> GHRP2 / MOD GRF run at 4 x 100mcg each daily. I will be adding 4iu hyge black tops daily come monday (2iu AM / 2iu PM)
> 
> Overall.
> 
> - My balls are bigger
> 
> - Libidio is coming back
> 
> - Feeling better than ever
> 
> - Hit 50kg dumbbells last night on incl pressing at 82kg BW x 5reps
> 
> - Strength up
> 
> Last thing to achieve......... getting the wife pregnant. so the above will be run to the T.


Hello mate! I'm doing the power pct myself! Is this the new protocol?

20000iu hcg 1 - 20 days

20mg nolva 1 - 20

20 - 34 clomid 100mg

35 - 48 clomid 50mg

20mg nolva 21 - 45


----------



## hackskii

J4MES said:


> Hello mate! I'm doing the power pct myself! Is this the new protocol?
> 
> 20000iu hcg 1 - 20 days
> 
> 20mg nolva 1 - 20
> 
> 20 - 34 clomid 100mg
> 
> 35 - 48 clomid 50mg
> 
> 20mg nolva 21 - 45


The new protocol is 2000iu every 3 days, so that is 10 x 2000 every 3 days = 30 days.


----------



## 19072

What hacks said -

I done the old one 2500iu eod for 8shots


----------



## Jay Walker

herc said:


> What hacks said -
> 
> I done the old one 2500iu eod for 10shots


Good luck with the bambino.


----------



## 19072

Jay Walker said:


> Good luck with the bambino.


Thanks Jay.

Its hard without AAS lol. Im relying on peds/hgh now to keep me somewhat going lol.


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> What hacks said -
> 
> I done the old one 2500iu eod for 10shots


How did you find this?


----------



## con1981

Hello fellas need some help with some bloods. A bit of background to start. I'm 33 and at the end of my last cycle I ended up with food poisoning and had a bad reaction to the pct meds. So the only thing I took was the clomid as this wasn't causing any issues. I didn,'t use hcg during my cycle either.

Well 6 months down the line and I still don't feel 100percent. No interest in sex etc. Mrs and I are due to start ivf soon so thought I best get this checked out. Any way the Dr's say all my values are in range except cholesterol. Not knowing anything about them I was hoping you fellas may be able to help me out. Either way I'm still not feeling myself, do these results shed any light on the situation?


----------



## 19072

J4MES said:


> How did you find this?


I feel like I'm recovering. Libido is starting to move which is good. No morning wood yet but I'm still on clomid, nolva and proviron

If I was to do it again I would do the hcg e3d at 2000iu though as feel I wasn't on hcg long enough


----------



## con1981

con1981 said:


> Hello fellas need some help with some bloods. A bit of background to start. I'm 33 and at the end of my last cycle I ended up with food poisoning and had a bad reaction to the pct meds. So the only thing I took was the clomid as this wasn't causing any issues. I didn,'t use hcg during my cycle either.
> 
> Well 6 months down the line and I still don't feel 100percent. No interest in sex etc. Mrs and I are due to start ivf soon so thought I best get this checked out. Any way the Dr's say all my values are in range except cholesterol. Not knowing anything about them I was hoping you fellas may be able to help me out. Either way I'm still not feeling myself, do these results shed any light on the situation?


Given my results of test at 9.5nmol. Do you guys reckon the power pct would be suited to me or is it too aggressive?



hackskii said:


> The new protocol is 2000iu every 3 days, so that is 10 x 2000 every 3 days = 30 days.


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> I feel like I'm recovering. Libido is starting to move which is good. No morning wood yet but I'm still on clomid, nolva and proviron
> 
> If I was to do it again I would do the hcg e3d at 2000iu though as feel I wasn't on hcg long enough


Did you find just the the hcg and nolva u were still able to have sexual function through this period?


----------



## 19072

Guys need help!!!

I can't get an erection now. I completed the hcg/hmg protocol I'm now on 100mg clomid , 150mg proviron , 20mg nolva for three weeks now. @hackskii what am I doing wrong. Do I need to start hcg over again?

Help guys


----------



## BigRS

What is the best way to improve fertility ON cycle?

In the next months we want to get pregnant but since im on TRT (with 2-3 8 weeks blasts every year) i guess it will be very hard.

I really dont want to come off TRT, i did that twice and felt ****ty for a long time. Hope that somebody can give me some good advice. Thanks.


----------



## TokSik

herc said:


> Guys need help!!! I can't get an erection now. What am I doing wrong. Do I need to start hcg over again? Help guys


I tried sending this as a PM but as I'm new here, the board won't allow it.

It might help for you to read at least the first 2 posts here *http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/47593-understanding-pct.html* and then contact the author of those 2 posts, as he seems to have a lot of in depth knowledge about the problems that arise from cycles and/or PCT.

Also, I wanted to talk to you about sources, but I can't put any web addresses up on an open board (hence the attempt at using the PM system).


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> Guys need help!!!
> 
> I can't get an erection now. I completed the hcg/hmg protocol I'm now on 100mg clomid , 150mg proviron , 20mg nolva for three weeks now. @hackskii what am I doing wrong. Do I need to start hcg over again?
> 
> Help guys


Just keep what you are doing, it probably is the SERMS.


----------



## Peasnall

Well after 2 years of cycling on and off with no pct what so ever the Mrs is pregnant. 26 weeks to be precise. Was so worried after all the aas use and no pct. there is hope out there for other people trying.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> Just keep what you are doing, it probably is the SERMS.


Thanks @hackskii

Ive knocked the proviron in the head

Im on 100mg clomid (4th week) then ill drop it down to 50mg for a further 4weeks.

nolva i have run from start at 20mg do i keep it at this?

Would it be any harm if i ordered more hmg and start using that again?

Ive ordered viargra and using that atm. was able to get it up the other night without assistance (viagra) but it went again


----------



## sgtsniff

herc said:


> Thanks @hackskii
> 
> Ive knocked the proviron in the head
> 
> Im on 100mg clomid (4th week) then ill drop it down to 50mg for a further 4weeks.
> 
> nolva i have run from start at 20mg do i keep it at this?
> 
> Would it be any harm if i ordered more hmg and start using that again?
> 
> Ive ordered viargra and using that atm. was able to get it up the other night without assistance (viagra) but it went again


I think dropping the proviron might make your situation worse. I was the same whilst i was on clomid and nolva, at first sexual function was ok then after about 5 weeks or so it just dropped to nothing. I stopped all three and within a week i was myself again.


----------



## 19072

sgtsniff said:


> I think dropping the proviron might make your situation worse. I was the same whilst i was on clomid and nolva, at first sexual function was ok then after about 5 weeks or so it just dropped to nothing. I stopped all three and within a week i was myself again.


well i have completed the hcg/hmg - have been on clomid 4weeks and nolva 6weeks and only this happened last week.

Ill run with just nolva and clomid for four more weeks. totalling 8weeks clomid and 10weeks nolva.

I hope a miracle happens soon as im fed up now with all these meds - mentally its a struggle and now im worried about ED issues because of long term AAS use. my head is fried - was away over the weekend when the wife was ovulating and had to use bloody viargra to get it up. lucky i was in amsterdam and was able to buy it OTC!!


----------



## sgtsniff

herc said:


> well i have completed the hcg/hmg - have been on clomid 4weeks and nolva 6weeks and only this happened last week.
> 
> Ill run with just nolva and clomid for four more weeks. totalling 8weeks clomid and 10weeks nolva.
> 
> I hope a miracle happens soon as im fed up now with all these meds - mentally its a struggle and now im worried about ED issues because of long term AAS use. my head is fried - was away over the weekend when the wife was ovulating and had to use bloody viargra to get it up. lucky i was in amsterdam and was able to buy it OTC!!


First of all mate stop worrying, you will be fine.

I was the same, I felt like i had recovered after 5 weeks or so, sex drive was great etc then the next week it was a complete 180 and i hadn't actually changed anything. I added Proviron which helped a little then decided to drop everything and i was fine within a few days. The clomid was making me ultra paranoid and irritable about long term damage but now i realise i daft i was being (but at the time it was very real!) Morning wood all the time now and destroying the missus at every given opportunity!


----------



## 19072

sgtsniff said:


> First of all mate stop worrying, you will be fine.
> 
> I was the same, I felt like i had recovered after 5 weeks or so, sex drive was great etc then the next week it was a complete 180 and i hadn't actually changed anything. I added Proviron which helped a little then decided to drop everything and i was fine within a few days. The clomid was making me ultra paranoid and irritable about long term damage but now i realise i daft i was being (but at the time it was very real!) Morning wood all the time now and destroying the missus at every given opportunity!


cheers buddy - think ill just have to hang in there for another 4weeks. Fingers crossed everything is sorted by nov and christmas get her pregnant...


----------



## 19072

would you guys rate this supplement??

Extreme Nutrition Reload | Extreme Nutrition | Shop by Brand | The Supplement Store


----------



## J4MES

sgtsniff said:


> First of all mate stop worrying, you will be fine.
> 
> I was the same, I felt like i had recovered after 5 weeks or so, sex drive was great etc then the next week it was a complete 180 and i hadn't actually changed anything. I added Proviron which helped a little then decided to drop everything and i was fine within a few days. The clomid was making me ultra paranoid and irritable about long term damage but now i realise i daft i was being (but at the time it was very real!) Morning wood all the time now and destroying the missus at every given opportunity!


Would you be able to list the protocol you used yourself to recover?


----------



## sgtsniff

J4MES said:


> Would you be able to list the protocol you used yourself to recover?


I documented it all on my blog. Look at the last 2 or 3 pages.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-and-testosterone-information/260127-summer-cutting-tren-cycle.html

From memory it was 2500iu HCG for 16 days (in hindsight I should have ran for longer) Chlomid and Nolva for roughly another 6 weeks. After too long on clomid I feel awful.


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> Thanks @hackskii
> 
> Ive knocked the proviron in the head
> 
> Im on 100mg clomid (4th week) then ill drop it down to 50mg for a further 4weeks.
> 
> nolva i have run from start at 20mg do i keep it at this?
> 
> Would it be any harm if i ordered more hmg and start using that again?
> 
> Ive ordered viargra and using that atm. was able to get it up the other night without assistance (viagra) but it went again


No need for hMG now bud.

SERMS can make one feel not 100%.

You can taper that down but drop it to EOD at 50mg, then 25 after about a week or so.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> No need for hMG now bud.
> 
> SERMS can make one feel not 100%.
> 
> You can taper that down but drop it to EOD at 50mg, then 25 after about a week or so.


shall i go til sun (4weeks at 100mg) then commence the new week with 50mg EOD. what about nolvadex just run that ED at 20mg?

i have my docs app booked in on the 13th nov to check my swimmers


----------



## Jay Walker

herc said:


> shall i go til sun (4weeks at 100mg) then commence the new week with 50mg EOD. what about nolvadex just run that ED at 20mg?
> 
> i have my docs app booked in on the 13th nov to check my swimmers


Good luck Herc, you'll get there mate! SERMs are awful, but you'll be fine when you get past it.


----------



## 19072

Jay Walker said:


> Good luck Herc, you'll get there mate! SERMs are awful, but you'll be fine when you get past it.


Jay tell me about it buddy. Hate it ATM. im using ghrp/mod grf and hgh atm just to get by without the use of AAS. Think its mentally helping me not to worry as i wont lose my size being off AAS with using peds.

Cant wait to take my last clomid / nolva !!


----------



## hackskii

herc said:


> shall i go til sun (4weeks at 100mg) then commence the new week with 50mg EOD. what about nolvadex just run that ED at 20mg?
> 
> i have my docs app booked in on the 13th nov to check my swimmers


Drop it to 50mg per day for 2 weeks then do 25mg per day for a couple of weeks, then 12.5mg.


----------



## 19072

hackskii said:


> Drop it to 50mg per day for 2 weeks then do 25mg per day for a couple of weeks, then 12.5mg.


Perfect ill do that then. Had 50mg this morning so will start that today - Thanks buddy


----------



## Jay Walker

I'll be following you on this in the next few months, you can provide emotional support for me in return! you'll be home and dry then!


----------



## 19072

Jay Walker said:


> I'll be following you on this in the next few months, you can provide emotional support for me in return! you'll be home and dry then!


Haha certainly buddy. The help i have received id be more than grateful to help in return.

Goods news is i woke up this morning with morning wood. (not 100% but still)


----------



## 19072

So last week I've been able to get it up but it's still weak and my semen volume has dropped.

Ordered some semenax which is rated no1 for semen volume.

Sitting around 84kg atm which is the same weight when i stopped aas. But have been told I look like I've lost weight :/

Doing 4 x 100mcg ghrp & mod grf along with 5iu hgh (this is to keep me going mentally)

So far I've done:

10shots hcg/hmg - 20,000/750iu

6weeks nolva - 20mg

4weeks clomid - 100mg

On 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva for 4weeks

natty supps (cod liver oil, vit d3, vit e etc)


----------



## Jay Walker

herc said:


> So last week I've been able to get it up but it's still weak and my semen volume has dropped.
> 
> Ordered some semenax which is rated no1 for semen volume.
> 
> Sitting around 84kg atm which is the same weight when i stopped aas. But have been told I look like I've lost weight :/
> 
> Doing 4 x 100mcg ghrp & mod grf along with 5iu hgh (this is to keep me going mentally)
> 
> So far I've done:
> 
> 10shots hcg/hmg - 20,000/750iu
> 
> 6weeks nolva - 20mg
> 
> 4weeks clomid - 100mg
> 
> On 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva for 4weeks
> 
> natty supps (cod liver oil, vit d3, vit e etc)


You'll be like a japanese sperm whale before you know it!


----------



## 19072

Holy **** it worked!!!!

We got up this morning and checked  ))

Early days but I'm so chuffed


----------



## Royboss

herc said:


> Holy **** it worked!!!!
> 
> We got up this morning and checked  ))
> 
> Early days but I'm so chuffed


Happy days

Big congrats bud


----------



## hackskii

Awesome..


----------



## 19072

I owe you @hackskii big time - thanks for all the help


----------



## hackskii

herc said:
 

> I owe you @hackskii big time - thanks for all the help


You are welcome handsome, having a child is the most awesome thing you will ever do.

I appreciate the thanks, but a pic of your child will go very far here, my pleasure really.


----------



## Jay Walker

herc said:


> Holy **** it worked!!!!
> 
> We got up this morning and checked  ))
> 
> Early days but I'm so chuffed


YES!!!!!

Nice one !!!!!!


----------



## 19072

Can't believe it @Jay Walker  )

I'll still follow my pct and stay off til the new year once we pass 12week pregnant

Thanks everyone


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> Can't believe it @Jay Walker  )
> 
> I'll still follow my pct and stay off til the new year once we pass 12week pregnant
> 
> Thanks everyone


Congratulations dude that's awesome!

What do you think done it for you. Or did you wait and trust the process?


----------



## 19072

J4MES said:


> Congratulations dude that's awesome!
> 
> What do you think done it for you. Or did you wait and trust the process?


Probably the hcg/hmg I used.

I used 1000iu hcg EW 5weeks left of course. Then straight into the hcg/hmg blast..

I sat and worked out most of my cycles (2009-2014) didn't go over 900mg (highest was 500test 400deca which was years ago)

Still low libido but have few more weeks left of SERMS then I'll get bloods done in new year to see where I'm at


----------



## Jay Walker

Heartwarming post gear thread! :clap:


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> Probably the hcg/hmg I used.
> 
> I used 1000iu hcg EW 5weeks left of course. Then straight into the hcg/hmg blast..
> 
> I sat and worked out most of my cycles (2009-2014) didn't go over 900mg (highest was 500test 400deca which was years ago)
> 
> Still low libido but have few more weeks left of SERMS then I'll get bloods done in new year to see where I'm at


Sounds good mate! I didnt use HCG through out well I did but was for about 2 months!

I've order 24000iu of hcg as the kits I buy are 6000iu do you reckon I should use the last 4000iu up or just stick the the protocol?

Any advise yet @hackskii


----------



## 19072

J4MES said:


> Sounds good mate! I didnt use HCG through out well I did but was for about 2 months!
> 
> I've order 24000iu of hcg as the kits I buy are 6000iu do you reckon I should use the last 4000iu up or just stick the the protocol?
> 
> Any advise yet @hackskii


Going on my previous cycle it was about 20weeks long. i used hcg at the last four weeks 1000iu EW. then followed the pct protocol.

Id say start your hcg blast 2000iu E3D then when you have reached 20,000 assess it from there


----------



## 19072

*Update.

I am still on 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ED. Last two mornings I have woke up with morning wood 

The wife is 4weeks and 4days pregnant (early days) - We have an appointment with the docs today and hopefully get the ultrascan next week

Cant say thanks enough for all the help/support


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> *Update.
> 
> I am still on 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ED. Last two mornings I have woke up with morning wood
> 
> The wife is 4weeks and 4days pregnant (early days) - We have an appointment with the docs today and hopefully get the ultrascan next week
> 
> Cant say thanks enough for all the help/support


Awesome mate!

Glad it's all working out okay! How many weeks in total will you have done clomid may I ask?


----------



## 19072

J4MES said:


> Awesome mate!
> 
> Glad it's all working out okay! How many weeks in total will you have done clomid may I ask?


so far i have done

20,000iu Hcg / 750iu Hmg

4weeks proviron @ 150mg

8weeks nolva @ 20mg

4weeks clomid @ 100mg

got few weeks of clomid @ 50mg and nolva @ 20mg

then im done for pct.


----------



## J4MES

herc said:


> so far i have done
> 
> 20,000iu Hcg / 750iu Hmg
> 
> 4weeks proviron @ 150mg
> 
> 8weeks nolva @ 20mg
> 
> 4weeks clomid @ 100mg
> 
> got few weeks of clomid @ 50mg and nolva @ 20mg
> 
> then im done for pct.


Congratulations mate! Be nice to.be off everything over Christmas n new year!


----------



## 19072

J4MES said:


> Congratulations mate! Be nice to.be off everything over Christmas n new year!


Cheers buddy.

Things going well. I have brought my SERMS down to 25mg clomid and 10mg nolva - waking up more often with morning wood now.

The wife is 5weeks pregnant (early days) and we have a private scan booked for our 7th week.

fingers crossed everything runs smoothly.


----------



## lukeyybrown1

herc said:


> Cheers buddy.
> 
> Things going well. I have brought my SERMS down to 25mg clomid and 10mg nolva - waking up more often with morning wood now.
> 
> The wife is 5weeks pregnant (early days) and we have a private scan booked for our 7th week.
> 
> fingers crossed everything runs smoothly.


Just read your log bro! and want to sell literally so happy for you! few ups and downs in between your PCT but you got there!

Weirdly I cant wait to get my mrs pregnant


----------



## 19072

lukeyybrown1 said:


> Just read your log bro! and want to sell literally so happy for you! few ups and downs in between your PCT but you got there!
> 
> Weirdly I cant wait to get my mrs pregnant


Thanks luke - much appreciated bro.

Yes due to the length of time ive been using gear i knew i would be shutdown hard. now i am getting morning wood and even random wood throughout the day.

Just an update guys dropped my dosage to 25mg clomid and 10mg nolva as i feel i have bounced back 

Here is my Protocol:

Hcg 20,000iu (2500iu EOD x 10 shots)

Hmg 750iu (75iu EOD x 10 shots)

Proviron 150mg (4weeks)

Nolva 20mg (10weeks)

Clomid 100mg (4weeks)

Clomid50mg (2weeks)

Clomid 25mg (2weeks)

I ran Natty supps:

7500iu Vit D3

1200iu Vit E

10ml cod liver oil

FertilAid

Natty test boaster (Tauro Test)


----------



## G-man99

Did you not find prov at 150mg suppressive for recovery??

Bump for a read later


----------



## 19072

G-man99 said:


> Did you not find prov at 150mg suppressive for recovery??
> 
> Bump for a read later


I did - Thats the reason i discontinued it after 4weeks. i started it alongside the hcg and 2weeks into serms. i still have 3bottles left in the house as i didnt finish them.


----------



## G-man99

herc said:


> I did - Thats the reason i discontinued it after 4weeks. i started it alongside the hcg and 2weeks into serms. i still have 3bottles left in the house as i didnt finish them.


Was considering adding it to my pct but at only 25mg just to try and make things a little easier but without the suppression.

Any thoughts??


----------



## 19072

G-man99 said:


> Was considering adding it to my pct but at only 25mg just to try and make things a little easier but without the suppression.
> 
> Any thoughts??


well put it like this i was on it at 150mg ed and 4th week on it i had ED. I listened to guys on here and they said drop it as its still a steroid.

for fertility i would say hcg/hmg are more than enough for help concieve.

I got my hmg from ADC - wasnt far off 150sheets for 750iu worth


----------



## notbigenough

Hello men, I last did a PCT in June. Things were OK for a few months and then my sex drive has fallen away. My wife is feeling desperate for a baby so went for a private gynae appointment tonight and the doctor has asked me book a sperm test. I was going to try another PCT and banged 2500iu of HCG last night. Does anyone know if this will have an effect on the sperm analysis and how long should I wait before I go for the sperm test?

Thanks in advance for your replies.


----------



## hackskii

notbigenough said:


> Hello men, I last did a PCT in June. Things were OK for a few months and then my sex drive has fallen away. My wife is feeling desperate for a baby so went for a private gynae appointment tonight and the doctor has asked me book a sperm test. I was going to try another PCT and banged 2500iu of HCG last night. Does anyone know if this will have an effect on the sperm analysis and how long should I wait before I go for the sperm test?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your replies.


At this point it may make things worse.

Get the test and then go from there, if low I have an idea.


----------



## notbigenough

hackskii said:


> At this point it may make things worse.
> 
> Get the test and then go from there, if low I have an idea.


Thanks for the quick reply. I will phone in the morning to get the test booked. I will post again when I get the results.


----------



## Jay Walker

notbigenough said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I will phone in the morning to get the test booked. I will post again when I get the results.


How did you get on ?


----------



## notbigenough

Jay Walker said:


> How did you get on ?


Hello Jay, myself and my wife will go to see the doctor again on Tuesday night. My wifes hormone profile and scan were normal. So it looks like a problem on my side. We will know for sure on Tuesday. So far it has cost £550 British Pounds and the appointment on Tuesday is another £150 British pounds. Any treatment after that will have to be on the National Health as I can't afford anymore private treatment. If there is a problem with my sperm I will run the PCT suggested here.

I post again when I get the results

Thanks


----------



## Jay Walker

notbigenough said:


> Hello Jay, myself and my wife will go to see the doctor again on Tuesday night. My wifes hormone profile and scan were normal. So it looks like a problem on my side. We will know for sure on Tuesday. So far it has cost £550 British Pounds and the appointment on Tuesday is another £150 British pounds. Any treatment after that will have to be on the National Health as I can't afford anymore private treatment. If there is a problem with my sperm I will run the PCT suggested here.
> 
> I post again when I get the results
> 
> Thanks


Thanks for the update, all the very best with it all.

Keep us posted.


----------



## notbigenough

I'm in shock as my sperm test result is normal. My wife has now been referred to have a hysterosalpingogram. I think I would have much preferred to have a problem with my sperm as I could have deal with that myself by running the PCT suggested here. Surprisingly since I got the all clear my sex drive is starting to return. Just shows how stress can also effect things

Thanks


----------



## 19072

Here is an update guys. The wife is now 10wks pregnant. All going well


----------



## Jay Walker

herc said:


> Here is an update guys. The wife is now 10wks pregnant. All going well


Genuinely happy for you mate, thats great.

Micro Herc.


----------



## 19072

He will take my Mma belts and keep the streak up 

Thanks chum


----------



## Jay Walker

Just had my fertility checked, 6 weeks after finishing a 18 month B&C.

Pretty bad, as expected...

Total count 1.4 Million

Motility 18%

I've dropped my clomid down to 25mg ED and will run this for some time.

Is it worth adding a low dose of Proviron, say 25mg?


----------



## sitries

mindmuscle said:


> Would you mind sharing what you use for you chemical free pct mate??


what is this natural pct mate - id be very interested in giving it a try


----------



## hackskii

sitries said:


> what is this natural pct mate - id be very interested in giving it a try


No such thing.


----------



## sitries

im on a big natural supplement stack at the moment which I am taking following up after my 5 weeks pct - im REALLY impressed with it after 1 week - sex drive is up massively!!!! im taking the following if anyone else is interested. I basically read up online of all ways to increase natty test and bought every supplement.


----------



## Jay Walker

sitries said:


> im on a big natural supplement stack at the moment which I am taking following up after my 5 weeks pct - im REALLY impressed with it after 1 week - sex drive is up massively!!!! im taking the following if anyone else is interested. I basically read up online of all ways to increase natty test and bought every supplement.


Do tell!


----------



## sitries

ok so heres a list of the pills im poppin!!!!

- virectin

- nutri tribuforce (tribulus with a few other added vits)

- SAM-e 400

- Mucuna Puriens

- nutri adrenal extra

- vit e 400iu

- vit b6


----------



## hackskii

sitries said:


> ok so heres a list of the pills im poppin!!!!
> 
> - virectin
> 
> - nutri tribuforce (tribulus with a few other added vits)
> 
> - SAM-e 400
> 
> - Mucuna Puriens
> 
> - nutri adrenal extra
> 
> - vit e 400iu
> 
> - vit b6


This could very well be placebo as many of those products including trib are worthless, but some guys can take MACA for instance and have it work for them.


----------



## sitries

im not ruling out placebo Hacks but surely natural supplements can play an important role in increasing test??? im also still taking 50mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex too


----------



## hackskii

sitries said:


> im not ruling out placebo Hacks but surely natural supplements can play an important role in increasing test??? im also still taking 50mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex too


Well, with the exception of just a very few things like the minerals that support testosterone production, and for instance zinc which has mild AI properties, vitamin D, and a couple of other things, pretty much natty supps do not do what they suggest.

But 50mg clomid for example can double LH output, so yah, they will move numbers, lets not forget clomid has been used for fertility for many years.


----------



## sitries

so keep going for the clomid for another month then.  Is the nolvadex benefitting me do you think also???



hackskii said:


> Well, with the exception of just a very few things like the minerals that support testosterone production, and for instance zinc which has mild AI properties, vitamin D, and a couple of other things, pretty much natty supps do not do what they suggest.
> 
> But 50mg clomid for example can double LH output, so yah, they will move numbers, lets not forget clomid has been used for fertility for many years.


----------



## hackskii

sitries said:


> so keep going for the clomid for another month then. Is the nolvadex benefitting me do you think also???


Depends on why you are on clomid.


----------



## sitries

Im just trying to get my sex drive back on track after a long cycle! iv done a full blown pct of hcg blast followed by nolva and clomid for 5 weeks. im just gona keep running the nolva and clomid until I see improvement



sitries said:


> so keep going for the clomid for another month then. Is the nolvadex benefitting me do you think also???


----------



## Vpac

Sorry if I'm taking this slightly off-topic guys but I feel there is quite a lot of wealth of information from the posters in this thread and I wanted to ask if you would recommend any protocols/supplements/diet changes for a non-steroid user to naturally increase their sperm count, sex drive, etc?


----------



## dave8

No idea if this will help anyone or be useful but I just read the link below about letro being trialled to improve male fertility. Only a small study with 12 obese individuals though so may not apply to anyone here and only 2 were successful:

Frankie the dog 'sniffs out thyroid cancer' - BBC News


----------



## The doog

Vpac said:


> Sorry if I'm taking this slightly off-topic guys but I feel there is quite a lot of wealth of information from the posters in this thread and I wanted to ask if you would recommend any protocols/supplements/diet changes for a non-steroid user to naturally increase their sperm count, sex drive, etc?


66mg Zinc Sulphate

5mg Folic Acid

4g L-Arginine

1500mg L-Carnitine

800iu Vitamin E

1000mg Vitamin C

Take that everyday for at least 90-110 days.


----------



## Ukmeathead

The doog said:


> 66mg Zinc Sulphate
> 
> 5g Folic Acid
> 
> 4g L-Arginine
> 
> 1500mg L-Carnitine
> 
> 800iu Vitamin E
> 
> 1000mg Vitamin C
> 
> Take that everyday for at least 90-110 days.


That's alot of zinc good luck with that.


----------



## The doog

Ukmeathead said:


> That's alot of zinc good luck with that.


That works out about 12-15mg of elemental zinc a day which isn't to bad. You wouldn't run it long term at that dosage but that's what was used in the study with positive results. Personally I use 50mg a day as I can only get 200mg tablets, which I quarter.

Effects of folic acid and zinc sulfate ... - PubMed Mobile - NCBI


----------



## G-man99

Would these be a good idea for improving sperm fertility??

Would they have a positive effect if someone was using AAS at the same time?

Buy Vitabiotics Wellman Conception 30 Tabs For £8.29 - Discount Supplements ™

Per Tablet:

Lycopene Extract: 1.5mg

Peruvian Maca Extract: 250mg

Pine Bark Extract: 30mg

Octacosanol: 3mg

Inositol: 40mcg

L-Glutathione: 2.5mg

Siberian Ginseng Extract: 30mg

Co-enzyme Q10: 2mg

L-Carnitine Tartrate: 50mg

Citrus Bioflavonoids: 10mg

Vitamin A (2500 IU): 750µg

Vitamin D3 (as 600 IU): 15µg

Vitamin E: 30mg

Vitamin C: 90mg

Thiamin (Vitamin B1): 12mg

Riboflavin (Vitamin B2): 5mg

Niacin (Vitamin B3): 18mg

Vitamin B6: 10mg

Folacin (Folic Acid): 400µg

Vitamin B12: 75µg

Biotin: 150µg

Pantothenic Acid: 10mg

Magnesium: 60mg

Iron: 6mg

Zinc: 15mg

Copper: 1000µg

Manganese: 0.5mg

Selenium: 150µg

Chromium: 50µg


----------



## hackskii

G-man99 said:


> Would these be a good idea for improving sperm fertility??
> 
> Would they have a positive effect if someone was using AAS at the same time?
> 
> Buy Vitabiotics Wellman Conception 30 Tabs For £8.29 - Discount Supplements ™
> 
> Per Tablet:
> 
> Lycopene Extract: 1.5mg
> 
> Peruvian Maca Extract: 250mg
> 
> Pine Bark Extract: 30mg
> 
> Octacosanol: 3mg
> 
> Inositol: 40mcg
> 
> L-Glutathione: 2.5mg
> 
> Siberian Ginseng Extract: 30mg
> 
> Co-enzyme Q10: 2mg
> 
> L-Carnitine Tartrate: 50mg
> 
> Citrus Bioflavonoids: 10mg
> 
> Vitamin A (2500 IU): 750µg
> 
> Vitamin D3 (as 600 IU): 15µg
> 
> Vitamin E: 30mg
> 
> Vitamin C: 90mg
> 
> Thiamin (Vitamin B1): 12mg
> 
> Riboflavin (Vitamin B2): 5mg
> 
> Niacin (Vitamin B3): 18mg
> 
> Vitamin B6: 10mg
> 
> Folacin (Folic Acid): 400µg
> 
> Vitamin B12: 75µg
> 
> Biotin: 150µg
> 
> Pantothenic Acid: 10mg
> 
> Magnesium: 60mg
> 
> Iron: 6mg
> 
> Zinc: 15mg
> 
> Copper: 1000µg
> 
> Manganese: 0.5mg
> 
> Selenium: 150µg
> 
> Chromium: 50µg


I actually like the formulation there.

Also, lots of anti-oxidants as well, along with some prostate support, 1 libido booster, and some help for regulating blood sugars, and a few in there for sperm support.


----------



## G-man99

hackskii said:


> I actually like the formulation there.
> 
> Also, lots of anti-oxidants as well, along with some prostate support, 1 libido booster, and some help for regulating blood sugars, and a few in there for sperm support.


Worth investing in then mate?

Would they provide any help if on cycle??


----------



## hackskii

G-man99 said:


> Worth investing in then mate?
> 
> Would they provide any help if on cycle??


Not like your thinking.

But off cycle for fertility yes.


----------



## SK50

For informational purposes, I am 32 years of age, been on steroids pretty much full time 2 years (B & TRT), long time girlfriend just found out she's pregnant - accident (using pull out method temporarily while she was off pill). It seems HCG usage preserves fertility more than I thought.

(Cue infidelity jokes)


----------



## SK50

PS, both LH and FSH are < 0.01 on all tests.


----------



## 19072

Just checking In to say I have 7weeks left and my lil girl will be here


----------



## Fox123

Hey, I need some advice. My wife and I have been trying for 13 months with no luck. She's had her tests which are clear but mine show zero sperm at the beginning of June. In total iv done 3 cycles of pro hormones about 6 months apart, the last one was last December so 5 months before my sperm test. I didn't do any PCT after any of them. Do you think this could be the reason? I also took test boosters at the beginning of this year and some last year.

Any advice would be great.


----------



## uubiduu

Clomifen was used AS treatment for your condition.sometimes combined with proviron.hope you find a doc who prescribes you that therapy


----------



## Fox123

Cheers for your reply. So I should be able to get myself back to normal? My wife's very worried we won't be able to conceive naturally.


----------



## stuartcore

I used reloads as part of my fertility stack and got the Mrs pregnant both times. Pscarbs also had is input with my fertility stack... I have allot to thanks both extreme and pscarbs for.


----------



## 19072

So need to revive this thread as I need some input as we are trying again. Tried last two months on cycle to conceive by adding more hcg and 150mg proviron... no joy! Wife is not happy so I'm coming off

Had my last shot of tren-e and mast-e yesterday and test-e on Monday. I was going to inject 250mg test-e for two more weeks for the tren/mast to clear. At this time can I take HCG/HMG ? or shall I run test prop for two weeks instead of test e?

Could I do 2weeks test prop and do the hmg/hcg/proviron then wait for the prop ester to clear to start the clomid/nolva?

@Pscarb @hackskii

Thanks guys


----------



## 19072

*Update guys:* just started week 2 (started sun)

Week 1-2: HCG 2500iu / HMG 75iu) EOD shots x 8

Week 3-6: Clomid 100mg ED

Week 1-16: GHRP/MODGRF 100mcg x 4 EOD

Week 1-16: HGH Ansomone 4IU EOD

----

I had double training session yesterday and came home about 8pm from being out at 6am. We tried to do the deed as the wife was ovulatingnight before but the big fella went soft on me ffs!! I have been waiting and worried about ED since coming off as my last run at this it happened within the month - this time it caught me at 3weeks. Woke up this morning and managed to get him hard so fingers crossed it was just triedness as I trained for 3hrs yesterday (strength training AM / MMA PM) we managed one night ovulating so fingers crossed it has done the job.

Will pull out the cialis now for next time round. (bought this as a back up plan) took 1/4 tab to test it the other week and honestly I could have chopped wood with it it was so hard...

So yes I am now on my first of four weeks of Clomid @ 100mg (hate taking this - I feel it f**ks with my head emotionally) ill hang in there though!!!

physique wise the PEPS and HGH are holding me up pretty well. I think when i finish the PEPS (6weeks) I will run 4iu Ansomone ED. In the hope to reserve as much muscle as possible whilst tightening up....

@meekdown any input my friend?


----------



## meekdown

herc said:


> *Update guys:* just started week 2 (started sun)
> 
> Week 1-2: HCG 2500iu / HMG 75iu) EOD shots x 8
> 
> Week 3-6: Clomid 100mg ED
> 
> Week 1-16: GHRP/MODGRF 100mcg x 4 EOD
> 
> Week 1-16: HGH Ansomone 4IU EOD
> 
> ----
> 
> I had double training session yesterday and came home about 8pm from being out at 6am. We tried to do the deed as the wife was ovulatingnight before but the big fella went soft on me ffs!! I have been waiting and worried about ED since coming off as my last run at this it happened within the month - this time it caught me at 3weeks. Woke up this morning and managed to get him hard so fingers crossed it was just triedness as I trained for 3hrs yesterday (strength training AM / MMA PM) we managed one night ovulating so fingers crossed it has done the job.
> 
> Will pull out the cialis now for next time round. (bought this as a back up plan) took 1/4 tab to test it the other week and honestly I could have chopped wood with it it was so hard...
> 
> So yes I am now on my first of four weeks of Clomid @ 100mg (hate taking this - I feel it f**ks with my head emotionally) ill hang in there though!!!
> 
> physique wise the PEPS and HGH are holding me up pretty well. I think when i finish the PEPS (6weeks) I will run 4iu Ansomone ED. In the hope to reserve as much muscle as possible whilst tightening up....
> 
> @meekdown any input my friend?


 The worst thing you can do I think is think too much, I know it's hard not too but try and let it just happen, it's a barstard when you know she's in the right place in time tho and that happens. Cialis should hold you up well so just put it out your mind. Try and get home before she does and get yourself horny and wound up before, give it a hour so it's on your mind and go at it pal, the rest of wot your doing looks bang on to me regarding peds and hgh, how you finding the ansomone? Maybe cut back on the training volume whist running pct as you won't have the same energy as before and keep a bit in the tank for home time pal, ride the clomid out and just keep ticking off the days as it messes with me a bit but just focus on the end goal mate. Fingers crossed for you pal


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## 19072

meekdown said:


> The worst thing you can do I think is think too much, I know it's hard not too but try and let it just happen, it's a barstard when you know she's in the right place in time tho and that happens. Cialis should hold you up well so just put it out your mind. Try and get home before she does and get yourself horny and wound up before, give it a hour so it's on your mind and go at it pal, the rest of wot your doing looks bang on to me regarding peds and hgh, how you finding the ansomone? Maybe cut back on the training volume whist running pct as you won't have the same energy as before and keep a bit in the tank for home time pal, ride the clomid out and just keep ticking off the days as it messes with me a bit but just focus on the end goal mate. Fingers crossed for you pal


 Well it worked earlier so hoping it's mental issue and tiredness that made it happen. Now it wasn't the hardest it's been but it got the job done.

Loving the hgh lad considering running it at 4iu ED as peps are a pain having to work around meals. Can't eat 1hr before or 20mins after. It's a ball ache lol!

I should have trained today doing my conditioning with the prowler etc but took the day of to eat and rest.

Appreciate the advise - hoping this week has sealed it for us but will find out in a few weeks. Til then I shall crack on with the emotional pills called clomid lol..


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## meekdown

herc said:


> Well it worked earlier so hoping it's mental issue and tiredness that made it happen. Now it wasn't the hardest it's been but it got the job done.
> 
> Loving the hgh lad considering running it at 4iu ED as peps are a pain having to work around meals. Can't eat 1hr before or 20mins after. It's a ball ache lol!
> 
> I should have trained today doing my conditioning with the prowler etc but took the day of to eat and rest.
> 
> Appreciate the advise - hoping this week has sealed it for us but will find out in a few weeks. Til then I shall crack on with the emotional pills called clomid lol..


 Glad your happy with the ansomone, I've never been a fan of peps as it just doesn't fit in well with my life and timings, glad you got rested up, doesn't have to hammer nails in mate as long as it gets the job done! You both will be fine, I have nothing but faith in the power pct as my round 7 month pregnant wife will attest too! It worked for me and will work for you mate, if not straight away it will happen, bump up the hgh if the clomid gets too much as it tends to lift my mood up a bit, look forward to hearing some good news soon mate!


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## 19072

meekdown said:


> Glad your happy with the ansomone, I've never been a fan of peps as it just doesn't fit in well with my life and timings, glad you got rested up, doesn't have to hammer nails in mate as long as it gets the job done! You both will be fine, I have nothing but faith in the power pct as my round 7 month pregnant wife will attest too! It worked for me and will work for you mate, if not straight away it will happen, bump up the hgh if the clomid gets too much as it tends to lift my mood up a bit, look forward to hearing some good news soon mate!


 Ill hang in there and run the peps til I finish them. They are a pain but will make do.

It worked back in 2014 the power pct and I have a 11month girl. My issues were I stayed on for over a year when the wife was 14weeks pregnant!

Going to shoot direct and get some Ansomone and save a few wuid than buying from a reseller

appreciate the help and advise buddy - means a lot


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## jimbo83

we found out my mrs is pregnant two weeks ago, I ran power pct back in December after a year of B&C and got her pregnant in April


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## meekdown

herc said:


> Ill hang in there and run the peps til I finish them. They are a pain but will make do.
> 
> It worked back in 2014 the power pct and I have a 11month girl. My issues were I stayed on for over a year when the wife was 14weeks pregnant!
> 
> Going to shoot direct and get some Ansomone and save a few wuid than buying from a reseller
> 
> appreciate the help and advise buddy - means a lot


 Any help I can give mate I'm happy to help, everyone helped me a huge amount when I needed it, you will be fine I was on for over two years when I did it! I'm helping a guy now who's a good friend of mine, British class winner, universe winner and nabobs world champ who's been on over 8 years, I don't think he's ever been off if I'm honest, will be interesting to see wot happens there but he starts next week, to stay he's crashed a bit is a understatement!


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## 19072

meekdown said:


> Any help I can give mate I'm happy to help, everyone helped me a huge amount when I needed it, you will be fine I was on for over two years when I did it! I'm helping a guy now who's a good friend of mine, British class winner, universe winner and nabobs world champ who's been on over 8 years, I don't think he's ever been off if I'm honest, will be interesting to see wot happens there but he starts next week, to stay he's crashed a bit is a understatement!


 Appreciate it buddy. will keep you updated on the progress :thumb


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## ScottishHero22

sbeast007 said:


> my wife and i are trying for our second child at the moment...she concieved on our first child just over 4 years ago when i was trying out my first sust cycle.
> 
> ive been on and off gear for the last 4 years not really paying alot of attention to pct, following some pct but not fully.
> 
> i came off a enanthate 1gweek and eq 500mg a week cycle at the beginning of november maybe just b4.
> 
> i started on the multivit tabs, zinc and fish oils and made sure that i had taken them everyday as i usually forget.
> 
> ive also just completed a short course of proviron at 50mg a day for around 20days and have just ordered some clomid to see if that helps.
> 
> we did a fertilty test the other night to see wot that had to say and according to the test which they say is 97% accurate my result was that i was producing under the norm of 20million per ml of sperm.
> 
> im feeling pretty low at the moment even tho we havent been tryin that long (3-4months) i feel as if ive been selfish in some ways for taking steroids knowing full well it could affect me in this way. and now im concerned that i may not be able to give her what she really wants.


 My sperm count is low, not sure how low but low, got my Mrs pregnant end of test tren winni blast but that turned out a chemical pregnancy, didn't catch her the next month but month after 3-4 weeks on tren again pregnant. Unfortunately we found out 12 days ago was ectopic. She had methotrexate injection instead of surgery which luckily is working well on her. Be 3 months before we can try again. Seems tren makes me more fertile lol. My daughter from previous relationship was conceived when I was on dbol and i got another girl pregnant on 900mg test e but she terminated that as was a short fling. Never got anyone pregnant when off gear lol


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## jimbo83

RoidsR-us said:


> My sperm count is low, not sure how low but low, got my Mrs pregnant end of test tren winni blast but that turned out a chemical pregnancy, didn't catch her the next month but month after 3-4 weeks on tren again pregnant. Unfortunately we found out 12 days ago was ectopic. She had methotrexate injection instead of surgery which luckily is working well on her. Be 3 months before we can try again. Seems tren makes me more fertile lol. My daughter from previous relationship was conceived when I was on dbol and i got another girl pregnant on 900mg test e but she terminated that as was a short fling. Never got anyone pregnant when off gear lol


 probably because you are shagging 5 x more lol


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## ScottishHero22

jimbo83 said:


> probably because you are shagging 5 x more lol


 Lol seriously I wish she'd give it me that often. 2-3 times at ovulation that's all


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## 19072

Anyone advise please..

Cutrently into week 4 of clomid and dropped it to 50mg. Running 20mg nolva ED also..

I have no libido and struggling to maintain an erection now!

Do I run the clomid few more weeks at 50mg or what. Totalling 6weeks clomid and 8weeks nolva?

i checked my sperm count and it's over the 20mil of sperm and mobility -wife is ovulating and I can't get the fuker to rise !!


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## meekdown

herc said:


> Anyone advise please..
> 
> Cutrently into week 4 of clomid and dropped it to 50mg. Running 20mg nolva ED also..
> 
> I have no libido and struggling to maintain an erection now!
> 
> Do I run the clomid few more weeks at 50mg or what. Totalling 6weeks clomid and 8weeks nolva?
> 
> i checked my sperm count and it's over the 20mil of sperm and mobility -wife is ovulating and I can't get the fuker to rise !!


 During this time mate just say f**k it and get a few viagra tabs, just bite the end off one and see how you go, not the best solution but will get the job done whilst she's in the right spot pal, it's wot I'd do if nipped for time


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## 19072

meekdown said:


> During this time mate just say f**k it and get a few viagra tabs, just bite the end off one and see how you go, not the best solution but will get the job done whilst she's in the right spot pal, it's wot I'd do if nipped for time


 I tried cialis and managed to stay hard but lost it about 15mins in..

I need something to boast libido I have no sex drive at all and that is where the problem lies..


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## sponge2015

herc said:


> I tried cialis and managed to stay hard but lost it about 15mins in..
> 
> I need something to boast libido I have no sex drive at all and that is where the problem lies..


 Get a blood test mate and see where you're estrogen is at. Had the same problem in pct once, since then always used aromasin during pct and never had the problem. It also boosts tests and free test so will help with recovery.


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## 19072

sponge2015 said:


> Get a blood test mate and see where you're estrogen is at. Had the same problem in pct once, since then always used aromasin during pct and never had the problem. It also boosts tests and free test so will help with recovery.


 Would this be a good test ?

https://www.medichecks.com/find-a-test/test/Hormone-Mini-Check-Male_34XX/


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## 19072

I have adex on hand shall I start taking it - I ran .5mg twice week on cycle

stopped AI when I finished cycle

so far I have ran hcg/hmg & 20mg Nolva waited few days and went onto 100mg clomid for 3weeks and just dropped it to 50 mg still on Nolva. I did run proviron during cycle and throughout hcg but stopped it.

Just few weeks ago I actually had the urge to have sex and wanted it. Now I have literally zero libido!

With cialis I can get it hard but I lose it


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## Jordan08

herc said:


> I have adex on hand shall I start taking it - I ran .5mg twice week on cycle
> 
> stopped AI when I finished cycle
> 
> so far I have ran hcg/hmg & 20mg Nolva waited few days and went onto 100mg clomid for 3weeks and just dropped it to 50 mg still on Nolva. I did run proviron during cycle and throughout hcg but stopped it.
> 
> Just few weeks ago I actually had the urge to have sex and wanted it. Now I have literally zero libido!
> 
> With cialis I can get it hard but I lose it


 What's your E2 figures?


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## 19072

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What's your E2 figures?


 I haven't had any bloods yet -only just encountered this issue whilst on holiday - when I get back home I'm going to order a test on medicheck site just need to know the best one to get

not keen on my on docs tbh so rather pay for it instead of telling some guy I have ed and no libido


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## 19072

*
Tests included (5)
*

*
Proteins
*

*
Albumin
*

*
Hormones
*

*
Testosterone
*

*
Free-Testosterone (calc)
*

*
Oestradiol
*

*
SHBG
*

*
ts included (5)
*

woukd this be good to buy - it check e2 , test , free test and shbg


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## KASHLDN

Hi guys, lots of good stuff in this thread. I hope you can give me some advice regarding my situation.

I recently had 2 sperm count tests and both came back with zero sperm. Nothing at all.

Got a blood test and the results I'm worried about are these:

Serum Test - 7.7nmol/l (they say it's in the normal lower range, but looks low to me)

FSH 19.6 IU/l - this is higher than normal (supposed to be between 0.7 - 11.1)

I'm natty and always have been. The supplements I take are: Orange Triad, Whey, Casein, Vit C, Vit D3, ZMA, Fish Oils, BCAA, Creatine, Caffeine.

Had a brief word with a consultant (my mrs works in fertility clinic) and she said to drop all the supplements. I have no probs with that, just wondering what the cientific basis for this advice.

Anyway, I've ordered some Fertilaid to try but I don't expect much to be honest.

What do you guys think of these results and course of action, taking into account I've never juiced?


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## Hiitlove

Hi everyone I know this is an old thread but I have read it many many times to help with our situation.

need some help / advice urgently and know you guys are the right ones to ask.

My partner was on a variety of things over the years and came off last year. Still taking the odd shot of test up until early this year.

We had had been trying to conceive for almost a year, and so he went to see his doc in April 2018. They did a sperm test and came back at 0! No sperm seen. In May started hcg 3 times a week (2500iu) apologies I don't know the exact measures etc.. but I know it was 2500 three times a week. Then clomid at 50 every day for 3-4 weeks. This really had a bad effect on him was very emotional and irritable.

then stopped both around end of June.

in June we went to see the fertility specialist they checked his lh/fish/test and asked for another sperm count.

his results end of June were :

his lh was 2.2 (0.8 in April)

fsh was 2.7 (1.5 in April)

test 5.3 (1.9 in April.. guessing this was soon after took his last shot of test and once he'd come off completely)

sperm count 4 million with low motility.

so they suggested we move forward with ivf...

in the meantime asked to freeze some sperm as back up.

this backup sperm was done end of August so almost 6 weeks later end of Aug and was 2.5 count!

i know it takes months to fully recover but is there anything he could do to speed this up? Also any idea why his sperm count was higher straight after the hcg/ clomid but has dropped since?


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