# Vote - IIFYM or Clean?



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

*IIFYM or Clean*​
IIFYM 4354.43%Clean3645.57%


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

As the title states? I don't want this turning into a free for all thread where people argue but id like to see how many people use 'IIFYM' and how many people use 'Clean' eating....

Its all about personal preference IMO, if we can just use people of this forum instead of using 'I know somebody who knows somebody who competed using IFFYM' then we can get a true picture of what works to get in the best shape for PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM!


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

I have popcorn

1rd,spot for sale lulz


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)




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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Whatever works best for you


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

A1243R said:


> As the title states? I don't want this turning into a free for all thread where people argue but id like to see how many people use 'IIFYM' and how many people use 'Clean' eating....
> 
> Its all about personal preference IMO, if we can just use people of this forum instead of using 'I know somebody who knows somebody who competed using IFFYM' then we can get a true picture of what works to get in the best shape for PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM!


You won't get a true answer as most people don't use IIFYM correctly, it gets abused to fcuk. Also, define "in shape"?

90% on the competitive BB's on here use "ariel fresh, fairy liquid, clean food" to get in contest shape.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> You won't get a true answer as most people don't use IIFYM correctly, it gets abused to fcuk. Also, define "in shape"?
> 
> 90% on the competitive BB's on here use "ariel fresh, fairy liquid, clean food" to get in contest shape.


Agree with your first comment. In shape (as in looks good ut not contest shape) IMO is say 9-11% with a decent amount of muscle mass...

I would agree again that I personally feel that the majority of competitive BB's on here use squeaky clean diets through prep...


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Clean for faster results


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Frandeman said:


> Clean for faster results


LOL


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Agree with your first comment. In shape (as in looks good ut not contest shape) IMO is say 9-11% with a decent amount of muscle mass...
> 
> I would agree again that I personally feel that the majority of competitive BB's on here use squeaky clean diets through prep...


Bit too in shape for the sake of the poll. Not many will get down to 10%, unless competing imo. I would say a true 15% is good enough to look decent.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Bit too in shape for the sake of the poll. Not many will get down to 10%, unless competing imo. I would say a true 15% is good enough to look decent.


Yes, probably being a bit too eager there, maybe 12-15% then! I think the problem is with the Forum is that BF% is different for everybody in that one person says your 20% and the next says your 12% :lol:


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

IIFYM crew are like a bloody religious cult lol.

They be like, "burn the clean eating scum", whilst waving their krispy kreme's in the air and spraying each other with Monster.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

can there not be an 'IDFC' option too?

both work, it just depends on what fits your lifestyle/eating habits best to keep you consistent.

sadly, some advocates of one, or the other of these methods are too narrow minded to accept that there's more than one way of doing something.


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## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

@A1243R your still trying to justify that pizza I'm watching you


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> IIFYM crew are like a bloody religious cult lol.
> 
> They be like, "burn the clean eating scum", whilst waving their krispy kreme's in the air and spraying each other with Monster.


Be careful what you say, we are not a religious cult we are a secret society with infinite gains.

Some of you may not believe in us.... Say poptart in the mirror 3 times and see for yourself


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## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> IIFYM crew are like a bloody religious cult lol.
> 
> They be like, "burn the clean eating scum", whilst waving their krispy kreme's in the air and spraying each other with Monster.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Peace frog said:


> @A1243R your still trying to justify that pizza I'm watching you


Ive not given in :thumb: Its ordered... Im going to have a walk when it arrives :lol:


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> You won't get a true answer as* most people don't use IIFYM correctly, it gets abused to fcuk*. Also, define "in shape"?
> 
> 90% on the competitive BB's on here use "ariel fresh, fairy liquid, clean food" to get in contest shape.


and truer words have never been spoken


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Jalex said:


> and truer words have never been spoken


I can think of truer words - Jalex is a closet gay!!


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)




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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

bit of both. try to eat clean but i dont deny myself a daily treat and a takeaway on weekend


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> I can think of truer words - Jalex is a closet gay!!


I thought he already admitted you're the one for him?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> bit of both. try to eat clean but i dont deny myself a daily treat and a takeaway on weekend


So you're a flexible dieter then (IIFYM).


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


>


But so many people look like sh*te doing this


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

TommyBananas said:


> So you're a flexible dieter then (IIFYM).


yes and no. more a clean diet with a tiny bit of flexability rather than a flexible diet lol

i will treat myself to a kit kat or a snickers every day (200cals of crap doesnt make it an iifym diet imo) but the rest of my cals are all clean meat, fruit veg. then on a saturday night i have a big cheat meal but eat clean for rest of the day.


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

I stick to a diet but my missus is trying IIFYM but she's still eating cleanish.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> But so many people look like sh*te doing this


So many people who bang on about how they're eating clean look like sh1te too. Whats your point?


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I can think of truer words - Jalex is a closet gay!!


If only "truer" actually made sense.

You can't get anymore truer than true, right?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

a.notherguy said:


> yes and no. more a clean diet with a tiny bit of flexability rather than a flexible diet lol
> 
> i will treat myself to a kit kat or a snickers every day (200cals of crap doesnt make it an iifym diet imo) but the rest of my cals are all clean meat, fruit veg. then on a saturday night i have a big cheat meal but eat clean for rest of the day.


This is how IIFYM really works. A small proportion of your diet can be whatever.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> So many people who bang on about how they're eating clean look like sh1te too. Whats your point?


Completely agree, fair point :thumb: I know for me personally I have been eating clean (super clean) for the last week and have dropped around 7/8lbs.. I honestly think that your cut would of also been a lot shorter and you would look better if you ate clean :thumb:

I just do what my coach say now anyway :lol:


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> yes and no. more a clean diet with a tiny bit of flexability rather than a flexible diet lol
> 
> i will treat myself to a kit kat or a snickers every day (200cals of crap doesnt make it an iifym diet imo) but the rest of my cals are all clean meat, fruit veg. then on a saturday night i have a big cheat meal but eat clean for rest of the day.


That's exactly what IIFYM is mate...god...


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Jalex said:


> If only "truer" actually made sense.
> 
> You can't get anymore truer than true, right?


You can, truerer. Jeez some people.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Completely agree, fair point :thumb: I know for me personally I have been eating clean (super clean) for the last week and have dropped around 7/8lbs.. I honestly think that your cut would of also been a lot shorter and you would look better if you ate clean :thumb:
> 
> I just do what my coach say now anyway :lol:


You obviously never look at my diary. I eat 'clean' by anyones standards here tbh.

My cut takes longer than it should because I over eat. Not because of any other reason.

What you 'think' is wrong.

Ohemgee a dirty diet lolololl:


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Dark sim said:


> This is how IIFYM really works. A small proportion of your diet can be whatever.


i guess, i just see IIFYM (prob form the countless argumements on this site :lol: ) as people eating pizza and pot noodle and having a protein shake to make up the macros (which i dont have any issue with, if it works for them its good to go for them)


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

a.notherguy said:


> i guess, i just see IIFYM (prob form the countless argumements on this site :lol: ) as people eating pizza and pot noodle and having a protein shake to make up the macros (which i dont have any issue with, if it works for them its good to go for them)


That is abusing it, and not how the term IIFYM came about.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You obviously never look at my diary. I eat 'clean' by anyones standards here tbh.
> 
> My cut takes longer than it should because I over eat. Not because of any other reason.
> 
> What you 'think' is wrong.


I do look at your diary quite a lot actually... If you want to start saying your wrong and being childish then be my guest... I am not wrong you just disagree... Clean eating to me isn't Pizza's and Monster :lol:

How do you also know that 'what I think is wrong' if you have never tried... You carry a lot of water, if you cut carbs I imagine you would drop that!

There is a time and a place for flexible dieting and I don't think Cutting is one of those. IMO.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> I do look at your diary quite a lot actually... If you want to start saying your wrong and being childish then be my guess... I am not wrong you just disagree... Clean eating to me isn't Pizza's and Monster :lol:
> 
> How do you also know that 'what I think is wrong' if you have never tried... You carry a lot of water, if you cut carbs I imagine you would drop that!
> 
> There is a time and a place for flexible dieting and I don't think Cutting is one of those. IMO.


As I said, what you 'think' is just a load of non-sense - no-one cares what you *think*.

Previously, 2 years ago all I did was eat chicken, vegetables, pasta, rice, btw. I even drank nothing but water.

Now you can either go try IIFYM properly, or just stop talking.


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> i guess,* i just see IIFYM (prob form the countless argumements on this site * :lol: *) as people eating pizza and pot noodle and having a protein shake to make up the macros *(which i dont have any issue with, if it works for them its good to go for them)


Yeah, well that is your problem and not an argument against IIFYM.

No one is recommending that here, so not sure why it is even brought up.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You obviously never look at my diary. I eat 'clean' by anyones standards here tbh.
> 
> My cut takes longer than it should because I over eat. Not because of any other reason.
> 
> ...


Granted that day does look quite clean ill agree... To me the Monster really is waste IMO and not needed or at least get the sugar free one with no carbs :thumb:


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You obviously never look at my diary. I eat 'clean' by anyones standards here tbh.
> 
> My cut takes longer than it should because I over eat. Not because of any other reason.
> 
> ...


Granted that day does look quite clean ill agree... To me the Monster really is waste IMO and not needed or at least get the sugar free one with no carbs :thumb:


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Granted that day does look quite clean ill agree... To me the Monster really is waste IMO and not needed or at least get the sugar free one with no carbs :thumb:


You keep saying things like you 'think' or 'imo' - why would I diet based off your opinion or what you think? I have the monster because I want the monster.

I eat like this most days; probably 6 out of the 7 days. Only the last few days I haven't because I've been lazy; although my calories are still not too high and the week will balance them out.

I'm not trying to be childish, or offend you - but you don't even understand basic nutritional practices and your argument against it is "I think"


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> As I said, what you 'think' is just a load of non-sense - no-one cares what you *think*.
> 
> Previously, 2 years ago all I did was eat chicken, vegetables, pasta, rice, btw. I even drank nothing but water.
> 
> Now you can either go try IIFYM properly, or just stop talking.


Why is what I think a load of non-sense and why does no care... or is it because you don't?

And guess what? At the start of your log you look 100x better than you do now :lol: You have just flawed your own argument...

I wont listen to you... I will listen to the person I pay for my diet who looks 100x better than you IMO.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Why is what I think a load of non-sense and why does no care... or is it because you don't?
> 
> And guess what? At the start of your log you look 100x better than you do now :lol: You have just flawed your own argument...
> 
> I wont listen to you... I will listen to the person I pay for my diet who looks 100x better than you IMO.


You don't even know what I looked like at the start of my log; lol. I wasn't lean when I started my log.

Feel free to listen to whoever you want; I don't care. You care. In 5 years time I'll have gold medals for breaking records, you'll be sat on a sofa eating kebabs with 7 children and a misses hencher than you.

You probably have a sh1t coach. Try hiring someone good, like John Moreira.

Also; I didn't lose any good amount of fat until I used IIFYM, which iis how I got to the leanest pics in my log - in which I ABUSED IIFYM and ate crap all the time to achieve that lean look.

Hows that for flawing my argument? Idiot.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You keep saying things like you 'think' or 'imo' - why would I diet based off your opinion or what you think? I have the monster because I want the monster.
> 
> I eat like this most days; probably 6 out of the 7 days. Only the last few days I haven't because I've been lazy; although my calories are still not too high and the week will balance them out.
> 
> I'm not trying to be childish, or offend you - but you don't even understand basic nutritional practices and your argument against it is "I think"


Im not telling you to diet based of what I think or IMO.

You always act childish but that's fine because some people doo... You haven't grown up because you don't live in the real world but that isn't a problem!

Im not going to say anymore because I didn't want this thread to be an argument... I wanted it to prove that the majority of this forum who follow Clean Eating look better than those who follow IIFYM in my opinion... I also haven't heard of anyone on this forum who gets contest ready through IIFYM or have you?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Im not telling you to diet based of what I think or IMO.
> 
> You always act childish but that's fine because some people doo... You haven't grown up because you don't live in the real world but that isn't a problem!
> 
> Im not going to say anymore because I didn't want this thread to be an argument... I wanted it to prove that the majority of this forum who follow Clean Eating look better than those who follow IIFYM in my opinion... I also haven't heard of anyone on this forum who gets contest ready through IIFYM or have you?


Yes @PHMG and @lotus (doesn't compete if I re-call) but is more diced than 99.9% of people here.

You just don't know what you're talking about. And as for people here being ccontest ready there is hardly any 'top' or 'good' bodybuilders here.

Go check Layne Nortons and John Moreiras clients, infact, here check this too:

Meal Plans vs IIFYM: What Is The Superior Method? | SHREDDED NATION

5 Reasons Why IIFYM and Flexible Dieting Isn't For Me

10 Aesthetic Naturals That Use IIFYM or Flexible Dieting


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Im not telling you to diet based of what I think or IMO.
> 
> You always act childish but that's fine because some people doo... You haven't grown up because you don't live in the real world but that isn't a problem!
> 
> Im not going to say anymore because I didn't want this thread to be an argument... I wanted it to prove that the majority of this forum who follow Clean Eating look better than those who follow IIFYM in my opinion... I also haven't heard of anyone on this forum who gets contest ready through IIFYM or have you?


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You don't even know what I looked like at the start of my log; lol. I wasn't lean when I started my log.
> 
> Feel free to listen to whoever you want; I don't care. You care. In 5 years time I'll have gold medals for breaking records, you'll be sat on a sofa eating kebabs with 7 children and a misses hencher than you.
> 
> ...


You honestly think youll have gold medals? Good on you for the ambition...

I personally wont be sat on a sofa eating kebabs as I am currently 20 Year old with an amazing career ahead of me and just buying my first house.... the comment you have just made is coming from a fat person who doesn't even work FFS :lol: you scrounge off your family and all you do is concentrate on the gym yet still look like ****e :lol:

My coach looks 100x better than you so im happy about using him.

I'm an idiot now am I? Lets see who's an idiot when i am CEO of my own company :lol:


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## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

Ok confused now what exactly is the definition of IIFYM ,is it the odd meal say once a week where you eat whatever so long as it fits or is it eating like that most of the time?


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

A1243R said:


> You honestly think youll have gold medals? Good on you for the ambition...
> 
> I personally wont be sat on a sofa eating kebabs as I am currently 20 Year old with an amazing career ahead of me and just buying my first house.... the comment you have just made is coming from a fat person who doesn't even work FFS  you scrounge off your family and all you do is concentrate on the gym yet still look like ****e
> 
> ...


What if your coach just has amazing genetics?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> You honestly think youll have gold medals? Good on you for the ambition...
> 
> I personally wont be sat on a sofa eating kebabs as I am currently 20 Year old with an amazing career ahead of me and just buying my first house.... the comment you have just made is coming from a fat person who doesn't even work FFS :lol: you scrounge off your family and all you do is concentrate on the gym yet still look like ****e :lol:
> 
> ...


I don't train to look good, I train so I can break a record. 

I don't have a coach.

I'm glad you'll be a CEO of your own company - Clean Eating Corp.

****.

Now, you won't watch the videos; but heres the pictures of some real bodybuilders with pro cards, fitness models, people who compete, etc. Most importantly people iin amazing shape *and better shape than you or I*


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Jalex said:


> View attachment 173578


It's all just what you are told though :lol:


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Peace frog said:


> Ok confused now what exactly is the definition of IIFYM ,is it the odd meal say once a week where you eat whatever so long as it fits or is it eating like that most of the time?


My liinks will explain it pefectly but a quick summary:

70-80% whole nutritious foods, eg chicken beef, rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits.

20-30% of treats that you MAY or may not want, eg, so you don't need to have "cheat" meals - you just add a pizza in, or you're out one day and want to eat so get a McDonalds/Nandos with friends you can make it fit.

Or perhaps you fancy Ice Cream for dessert.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Yes @PHMG and @lotus (doesn't compete if I re-call) but is more diced than 99.9% of people here.
> 
> You just don't know what you're talking about. And as for people here being ccontest ready there is hardly any 'top' or 'good' bodybuilders here.
> 
> ...


 @PHMG looks great but he has said that when he competes he knuckles down on his diets.... As per his last log where he had a photoshoot

I'm not saying there are lots but there are a good few who IMO look great. You also believe what you are told re top BB'ers, unless you were to follow them around everyday you never what they actually eat! They aren't going to tell you exactly what they eat are they as they wont tell you there exact cycle!


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

A1243R said:


> It's all just what you are told though :lol:


We either believe everyone or no-one. Works both ways.

But Tommy posted about 100x more above, so I'll rely on those bud hehe


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> @PHMG looks great but he has said that when he competes he knuckles down on his diets.... As per his last log where he had a photoshoot
> 
> I'm not saying there are lots but there are a good few who IMO look great. You also believe what you are told re top BB'ers, unless you were to follow them around everyday you never what they actually eat! They aren't going to tell you exactly what they eat are they as they wont tell you there exact cycle!


Lots of these people have IIFYM full days of eating vlogs; where you see them physically eat things that arent "clean" - so unless they have fake doubles then... 

I've got lean myself *abusing* IIFYM as I said.

Top BB'ers such as Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler - also used flexible dieting during prep. They just didn't label it as anything. The evidence is there.

YOU are the one who believes crap from bodybuilders, I saw someone ssaying they're going to follow B-paks advice the other day, lol'd.

I have good friends who are coaches, who coach their athletes to win their shows. They use flexible dieting. One of them wrote the first article I linked.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Peace frog said:


> Ok confused now what exactly is the definition of IIFYM ,is it the odd meal say once a week where you eat whatever so long as it fits or is it eating like that most of the time?


80% 'clean', 20% junk a day, roughly.


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

I am safer eating a low carb diet. It just works for me so much better!


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Armitage Shanks said:


> I am safer eating a low carb diet. It just works for me so much better!


Low carb has nothing to do with eating clean/IIFYM, though.

IIFYM'ers can eat "low carb" too.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

A1243R said:


> As the title states? *I don't want this turning into a free for all thread where people argue* but id like to see how many people use 'IIFYM' and how many people use 'Clean' eating....
> 
> Its all about personal preference IMO, if we can just use people of this forum instead of using 'I know somebody who knows somebody who competed using IFFYM' then we can get a true picture of what works to get in the best shape for PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM!


what was that you were saying......


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Lots of these people have IIFYM full days of eating vlogs; where you see them physically eat things that arent "clean" - so unless they have fake doubles then...
> 
> I've got lean myself *abusing* IIFYM as I said.
> 
> ...


I don't believe anything mate, I just do what im told....

Tbh im enjoying seeing you abuse people and tell there stupid because you cannot get your point across in any other way.

I don't doubt for one minute that PRO BB'ers don't eat **** when bulking but when dieting I disagree... that's just what I feel though, I never want to compete so I couldn't give a flying feck.

You rave one about IIFYM and bite down peoples necks when they say they don't like it but I don't fell you have personally proved to anyone its worth using....

I am also very surprised you have good friends... The way you speak to people on here when they disagree with you im surprised anyone wants to speak to you tbh :lol:

As mentioned earlier I didn't want this to be a IIFYM argument again I just wanted to see what works best for people on here....


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> I don't believe anything mate, I just do what im told....
> 
> Tbh im enjoying seeing you abuse people and tell there stupid because you cannot get your point across in any other way.
> 
> ...


I have video evidence of Dorian and Jay saying they ate things that you call "not clean" during prep, all the way to their mr olympia shows.

"I don't believe anything mate, I just do what im told.... "

HAHAHAHHA

Pathetic Human.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> what was that you were saying......


I know :lol:

Fecking @TommyBananas again


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> I know :lol:
> 
> Fecking @TommyBananas again


It happens because you make stupid ass statements. I don't care how you or any other person eats, I care when you make dumb untrue statements.


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

Eat tren, clen hard.


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Low carb has nothing to do with eating clean/IIFYM, though.
> 
> IIFYM'ers can eat "low carb" too.


I hear ya


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I have video evidence of Dorian and Jay saying they ate things that you call "not clean" during prep, all the way to their mr olympia shows.
> 
> "I don't believe anything mate, I just do what im told.... "
> 
> ...


Exactly the reason why your sad :lol:

Just because they say it on a video once again doesn't mean its true... It might be though not saying it isn't just saying I don't believe it!

I pay a coach to advise me what to do not so I research what he does at there would be no point then!

Pathetic Human? Explain that?


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I have video evidence of Dorian and Jay saying they ate things that you call "not clean" during prep, all the way to their mr olympia shows.
> 
> "I don't believe anything mate, I just do what im told.... "
> 
> ...


Exactly the reason why your sad :lol:

Just because they say it on a video once again doesn't mean its true... It might be though not saying it isn't just saying I don't believe it!

I pay a coach to advise me what to do not so I research what he does at there would be no point then!

Pathetic Human? Explain that?


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

Flexible dieting = for example your calorie requirements for the day are 3000, you allow yourself a 10% amount of those calories to be in the form of anything you want, everything else is "bro", so 300 calories of chocolate, cake, pop, juice, pot noodles or a cheeseburger etc etc...

That's it.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> It happens because you make stupid ass statements. I don't care how you or any other person eats, I care when you make dumb untrue statements.


You obviously do care because you try and shove it down everybodies throat... When did once make a dumb an untrue statement... I never once said anything I said was true? All I said was IMO you would look a lot better eating clean.... My opinion still stands.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Exactly the reason why your sad :lol:
> 
> Just because they say it on a video once again doesn't mean its true... It might be though not saying it isn't just saying I don't believe it!
> 
> ...


Because I can tell thats the same in your entire life, just does what hes told.

It was uncalled for really; but you've ****ed me off..

You said I looked better at the 'start' of my log, eg the leanest I looked.

I abused IIFYM, as I said - I ate crap all day, mcdonalds, monsters everyday, sugary foods - so whats your response to that?

You've already admitted you just do as your told and don't believe anything; but what about science? Science tells you you're wrong.

You're also ignoring video evidence of the people I've shown above with their day of eating videos which are sometimes even daily. You're just insane.

"All I said was IMO you would look a lot better eating clean."

Then admitted actually my diary looks clean. But apart from that; your opinion means nothing - opinions can be wrong, which yours is, because you don't understand basic nutrition.

I also didn't try and shove anything down anyonnes throat, I just told you your statement above is wrong.


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Just eat what agrees with you and your digestive tract imo


----------



## lotus (May 30, 2009)

I'm on 3200 cals at the min use flexible dieting and manage to maintain about 10 percent bf year round , then will just manipulate either way if I need to hit weight for a fight .


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Because I can tell thats the same in your entire life, just does what hes told.
> 
> It was uncalled for really; but you've ****ed me off..
> 
> ...


You can tell that's what I do in all my life? Are you mad, I am a PM - I tell people what to do all day - im starting to manage a property portfolio, again I tell people what to do all day. The reason why I like to be told what to do re diet and training is because im busy telling people what to do.

You've fecked me off but because im not childish even though I am 6 years your junior I don't throw silly insults around.... Until my last post :lol:

But once again as @Pscarb has stated on numerous occasions science is great in a controlled environment but not the real world... where normal people (unlike yourself) have work, family and friends and stress commitments!

I'm not ignoring the video evidence I haven't had chance to look at it yet... I will when im home around 9pm.

An opinion can never be wrong... it is in an opinion so therefore it is not a fact which means it cant be wrong. Again in your opinion my opinion is wrong but in someone else's it may not be!


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

lotus said:


> I'm on 3200 cals at the min use flexible dieting and manage to maintain about 10 percent bf year round , then will just manipulate either way if I need to hit weight for a fight .


And you look great mate :thumb:


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> You can tell that's what I do in all my life? Are you mad, I am a PM - I tell people what to do all day - im starting to manage a property portfolio, again I tell people what to do all day. The reason why I like to be told what to do re diet and training is because im busy telling people what to do.
> 
> You've fecked me off but because im not childish even though I am 6 years your junior I don't throw silly insults around.... Until my last post :lol:
> 
> ...


I don't care what Pscarb says about science, lol. Means nothing to me. Pscarb and I will never agree (and thats fine).

This is *basic* science and is shown to work for myself, and anyone else who has used it *properly*.

You've ignored what I said again:

"You said I looked better at the 'start' of my log, eg the leanest I looked.

I abused IIFYM, as I said - I ate crap all day, mcdonalds, monsters everyday, sugary foods - so whats your response to that?"

Now lotus has just said he uses Flexible dieting, you've seen PHMG does too. FelonE does (although he is even less strict and just eats anything and everything) and you've got video evidence and people in contest prep using it.

I don't *care* what you do, just stop making false statements.

Oh, and opinions can absolutely be wrong.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Goranchero said:


> Eat tren, clen hard.


/thread


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the fact is many people who use the flexible dieting/IIFYM don't actually do it right and they do use those tag words to just justify eating crap and to be fair their physiques show this "but its all good Brah because it IIFYM" 

when done properly it can be a useful way to stay lean and progress BUT it is just one way to do that and is certainly not the only way...........this has been proven thousands of times over the decades, posting up random individuals who are in condition that claim to use this dieting approach proves nothing but it worked for them, you can find hundreds of pictures of guys and girls who do not use this approach and get into awesome shape proves nothing but it works for some......

i use cereal post workout so 1/5th of my daily meals is flexible........

a very good friend of mine who goes by the name @Projectgoliath on IG uses flexible dieting probably better than anyone i have known to and he hit 4.9% bf before his last show 3 weeks ago (BF was done by DEXA) i was with him and Tom Blackman yesterday having a PWO feed and F&B's near toms gym in bristol discussing this very topic, as i have a few clients using the method and was discussing the subject......

Emil my friend tracks his daily food on MyFitnessPal on the whole 75-80% of his calories come from standard foods but he has a meal normally at the end of the day that basically is a treat type thing with Fage Total yogurt that includes such things as flapjacks, snickers bars, cereal, mars bar etc, he calls it a flex bowl and some days can contain as much as 1500cals but always within his calorific needs for the day.....

he makes sure that his protein needs are met by the standard protein sources you expect as his aim is to build muscle in the long term........

so this can be done and done well but very few do it or follow it as it is meant to be followed........and it is certainly not the only way to get lean by no means it is just one way to do if you are disciplined


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Jalex said:


> Yeah, well that is your problem and not an argument against IIFYM.
> 
> No one is recommending that here, so not sure why it is even brought up.


not sure why your being a dik either as i wasnt arguing against anything :beer:


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> the fact is many people who use the flexible dieting/IIFYM don't actually do it right and they do use those tag words to just justify eating crap and to be fair their physiques show this "but its all good Brah because it IIFYM"
> 
> when done properly it can be a useful way to stay lean and progress BUT it is just one way to do that and is certainly not the only way...........this has been proven thousands of times over the decades, posting up random individuals who are in condition that claim to use this dieting approach proves nothing but it worked for them, you can find hundreds of pictures of guys and girls who do not use this approach and get into awesome shape proves nothing but it works for some......
> 
> ...


This is a good post.

To clarify to anyone else reading; everyone here that does IIFYM that talks about it, Jalex and myself, big ape, prime examples. Always advocate it to be followed *properly* as Pscarb has said here.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> This is a good post.
> 
> To clarify to anyone else reading; everyone here that does IIFYM that talks about it, Jalex and myself, big ape, prime examples. Always advocate it to be followed *properly* as Pscarb has said here.


Can't wait to see how a select few will try and spin his post as anti flexible dieting tho


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> not sure why your being a dik either as i wasnt arguing against anything :beer:


Sorry bro love you


----------



## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> This is a good post.
> 
> To clarify to anyone else reading; everyone here that does IIFYM that talks about it, Jalex and myself, big ape, prime examples. Always advocate it to be followed *properly* as Pscarb has said here.


Think that's why all the arguing starts people see IIFYM and thinks people mean eat like that with all your meals,that's what I was starting to think from some of the comments on varies threads,if it's only 20% of your diet though then I'm sure it would work fine


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Peace frog said:


> Think that's why all the arguing starts people see IIFYM and thinks people mean eat like that with all your meals,that's what I was starting to think from some of the comments on varies threads,if it's only 20% of your diet though then I'm sure it would work fine


I ate 60-70% of my diet as pure crap and got to the leanest I got though. As long as my calories/macros were hit it worked, but I was a lot hungrier and probably not as 'healthy' as I could have been.


----------



## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I ate 60-70% of my diet as pure crap and got to the leanest I got though. As long as my calories/macros were hit it worked, but I was a lot hungrier and probably not as 'healthy' as I could have been.


Yeah I find chicken etc far more filling than the equivalent calories in say a McDonald's


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

It's gone quiet in here since Pscarb post but maybe a few were shocked he isn't so anti flexible dieting as they have thought when tagging him lol


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> This is a good post.
> 
> To clarify to anyone else reading; everyone here that does IIFYM that talks about it, Jalex and myself, big ape, prime examples. Always advocate it to be followed *properly* as Pscarb has said here.


Im glad you agreed with Paul there as I think this is the first time I have personally seen you agree with someone saying its not the only way or not the best way, I may be wrong. I think Paul has finished this argument now (which I never wanted it to be) and you have added to it.

Shame you haven't apologised for being so rude and putting people down for no reason but we will move on.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> the fact is many people who use the flexible dieting/IIFYM don't actually do it right and they do use those tag words to just justify eating crap and to be fair their physiques show this "but its all good Brah because it IIFYM"
> 
> when done properly it can be a useful way to stay lean and progress BUT it is just one way to do that and is certainly not the only way...........this has been proven thousands of times over the decades, posting up random individuals who are in condition that claim to use this dieting approach proves nothing but it worked for them, you can find hundreds of pictures of guys and girls who do not use this approach and get into awesome shape proves nothing but it works for some......
> 
> ...


Cliffs:

IIFYM works - just as good as any other "diet".

It doesn't work for people that do not understand it or follow it (and funnily enough it's these people who dismiss it so readily).


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Jalex said:


> Sorry bro love you


 :bounce:


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i am neither for or against the method, it works very well for some and not for others to say otherwise is stupid.......

if we all reacted the same to certain methods then life would be boring, i know guys who can eat 500-600g of carbs and do no cardio yet be shredded on stage and i know other who cannot and need to do lots of cardio on low cals to achieve the same condition.......

what gets boring on this forum and others is those that believe in this method and are blinkered to all other methods to lose fat and get or stay in condition, plus when preaching or listening to those that preach any dieting/nutritional method look at the persons physique/strength and their goals as your goal may be totally different and because of that a certain method will not work as well or at all.......


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Jalex said:


> Cliffs:
> 
> IIFYM works - just as good as any other "diet".
> 
> It doesn't work for people that do not understand it or follow it (and funnily enough it's these people who dismiss it so readily).


thats not what i said, don't assume i have meant something that i never said


----------



## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

was about to tag tommybananas but then went a page back :lol:


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> thats not what i said, don't assume i have meant something that i never said


It would be correct, though.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> It would be correct, though.


in your opinion


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> in your opinion


In the face of science *and* real world results. No-one has ever disproven IIFYM, ever. Because it cannot be done.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> In the face of science *and* real world results. No-one has ever disproven IIFYM, ever. Because it cannot be done.


no one ever.....wow huge statement lol


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> thats not what i said, don't assume i have meant something that i never said


the fact is many people who use the flexible dieting/IIFYM don't actually do it right and they do use those tag words to just justify eating crap and to be fair their physiques show this "but its all good Brah because it IIFYM"

when done properly it can be a useful way to stay lean and progress BUT it is just one way to do that and is certainly not the only way...........this has been proven thousands of times over the decades, posting up random individuals who are in condition that claim to use this dieting approach proves nothing but it worked for them, you can find hundreds of pictures of guys and girls who do not use this approach and get into awesome shape proves nothing but it works for some......

i use cereal post workout so 1/5th of my daily meals is flexible........

a very good friend of mine who goes by the name @Projectgoliath on IG uses flexible dieting probably better than anyone i have known to and he hit 4.9% bf before his last show 3 weeks ago (BF was done by DEXA) i was with him and Tom Blackman yesterday having a PWO feed and F&B's near toms gym in bristol discussing this very topic, as i have a few clients using the method and was discussing the subject......

Emil my friend tracks his daily food on MyFitnessPal on the whole 75-80% of his calories come from standard foods but he has a meal normally at the end of the day that basically is a treat type thing with Fage Total yogurt that includes such things as flapjacks, snickers bars, cereal, mars bar etc, he calls it a flex bowl and some days can contain as much as 1500cals but always within his calorific needs for the day.....

he makes sure that his protein needs are met by the standard protein sources you expect as his aim is to build muscle in the long term........

s*o this can be done and done well but very few do it or follow it as it is meant to be followed........and it is certainly not the only way to get lean by no means it is just one way to do if you are disciplined*

Bold - works and is one of many ways - said by you. @Pscarb

italics - people do not understand/follow it properly and their physiques show it - said by you (i.e. doesn't work for these people).

It's pretty obvious you do not like me, Paul, as you get incredibly defensive over anything I post, which is a shame.

But I digress, forget I posted anything before I get banned


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> no one ever.....wow huge statement lol


It isn't really a huge statement, at all. You've "practically" suggested it works if done properly; the only reason it can't/won't is if people do it wrong or it doesn't fit their preference.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> In the face of science *and* real world results. No-one has ever disproven IIFYM, ever. Because it cannot be done.


Why do you have ruin the thread again.... I take @Pscarb a lot more seriously than you considering the shape he is in!


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> It isn't really a huge statement, at all. You've "practically" suggested it works if done properly; the only reason it can't/won't is if people do it wrong or it doesn't fit their preference.


there are always freaks of nature who science doesn't apply too...


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Why do you have ruin the thread again.... I take @Pscarb a lot more seriously than you considering the shape he is in!


And as I said before, do what you want.

I take peer-reviewed data and people like Alan Aragon a lot more seriously than anyone on this forum. Plus, seeing as Alan publishes peer-reviewed data, hes a go to guy


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> there are always freaks of nature who science doesn't apply too...


No.


----------



## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> It isn't really a huge statement, at all. You've "practically" suggested it works if done properly; the only reason it can't/won't is if people do it wrong or it doesn't fit their preference.


He did suggest that if done properly can be useful but also went on to say that it might not work for everyone. There is a difference -.-

Everything comes down to genetics; Arnold once said: 'Frank came in once a week, did 5 sets of squats and 5 sets of leg extensions and went home. I on the other hand had to come in twice a week and do my 25 sets of squats.'


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i said when done properly it can be a useful way to eat i never said it would work for everyone....

@Jalex i have no feelings towards you or any other member on this site to liking or not liking you, i gauge people by their style of posting and you and others seem to ram this method down everyones neck as the best way to diet for all (impression i get from your many posts on the subject) and it is not, i have tried flexible dieting more than the cereal post workout and it was not for me, my results where not as good as with my normal dieting option......

now i am sure you and Tommy will say i did not do it correctly but i assure you i did  and i followed it for a length of time to gauge results it just did not give me what i expected so i settled to do a standard style of eating with the addition of the cereal PWO.......but as i have said my friend Emil does it correctly and it works far better than anyone i have seen on the forums so it works for him but not for me, so it is a style of eating when done correctly that works for some not all just like Keto style or Carb cycling style of eating works for some and not for all......

guys don't post on s subject if you are not open to debate from both sides of the argument, this is a forum for debate not a forum for none debate.....


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> He did suggest that if done properly can be useful but also went on to say that it might not work for everyone. There is a difference -.-


Yes it may not work due to adherence or preference. No other reason.


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

is there any way to put this subject to bed lol?


----------



## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

Big ape said:


> is there any way to put this subject to bed lol?


Nope


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> i said when done properly it can be a useful way to eat i never said it would work for everyone....
> 
> @Jalex i have no feelings towards you or any other member on this site to liking or not liking you, i gauge people by their style of posting and you and others seem to ram this method down everyones neck as the best way to diet for all (impression i get from your many posts on the subject) and it is not, i have tried flexible dieting more than the cereal post workout and it was not for me, my results where not as good as with my normal dieting option......
> 
> ...


I am open to debate (if you go back, I posted studies and information and opinions on insulin etc to just receive personal attacks back - that's the problem).

And you will also see above "ramming iifym down people's throats" that I say if somethings working well for someone, I couldn't be happier and crack on that way.

I just pick up on what I see as mis-information and try to post what I beleive, or, in the majority of cases, is proven to be correct/fact, for the benefit of other members.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> No.


How can you deny that? Its like saying people who come back to life... Science defies that but people die and are revived...

Or people who can stay under water for 25 minutes... that is a freak of nature and defies science but can be done.

Anyway ive had enough of arguing, I started to agree with you again but I have now changed my mind.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> guys don't post on s subject if you are not open to debate from both sides of the argument, this is a forum for debate not a forum for none debate.....


Tommy cannot do this, he has insulted people (including myself) on numerous occasions because he does not agree with them.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Big ape said:


> is there any way to put this subject to bed lol?


Yes - tommy to do a month or clean eating vs month of iifym and see the results best.... He wont because he is scared of what the results will be 

@Pscarb has just proved it isn't for everyone.


----------



## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> That is abusing it, and not how the term IIFYM came about.


Excuse my ignorance but, what is the meaning of IIFYM...Like why did it come about? What was it's sort of soul purpose.

I was under the impression that it was made to allow the casual dieter/gym goer (not a competitor) to build there own diet and have some form of flexibility.

I ain't being a dick I am asking seriously whats your opinion mate?

Thanks

Scott


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

regardless of the approach / diet protocol ..... You need to be in a deficit to loose fat / you need to be in a surplus to gain

IIFYM / KETO / LOW CARB / LOW FAT / ZONE DIET / CARB BACKLOADING / CARB FRONTLOADING / CARBS PRE AND POST / CARBS INSERTED IN YOUR AR5E / NO CARB / INTERMITTENT FASTING / 5:2 DIET

Seen people get shredded on nearly every single one of these, what do they all have in common you ask young jedi? ....

THE PERSON WAS IN A DEFICIT! moral of the story ... do what you enjoy best! as Jean Claude Van Damme Says in Bloodsport... "KEEP AN OPEN MIND"


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't get all this fascination with iifym and clean eating.

Find out what works best for you as an individual and do it.

If there was one set way of doing things we'd all be doing the same so obviously there's more than one way.

Fvcking boring now,same old same old.


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

A1243R said:


> Tommy cannot do this, he has insulted people (including myself) on numerous occasions because he does not agree with them.


Insulted ... its a forum .. if you let someone over a computer insult you then maybe you should see a professional psychiatrist or eat your asparagus alone without UKM


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Big ape said:


> Insulted ... its a forum .. if you let someone over a computer insult you then maybe you should see a professional psychiatrist or eat your asparagus alone without UKM


Sorry my comment was wrong.... He hasn't insulted me because i just laugh and find him pretty pathetic, but he does throw insults around for no apparent reason and for no need at all.

I don't like asparagus


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I don't get all this fascination with iifym and clean eating.
> 
> Find out what works best for you as an individual and do it.
> 
> ...


I only started to see what works for best for people on UKM but once again people come in saying this one works best and only this one...

I completely agree just to do what works best for you which is why i wanted to gauge whats works best for people on here!!!


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> I only started to see what works for best for people on UKM but once again people come in saying this one works best and only this one...
> 
> I completely agree just to do what works best for you which is why i wanted to gauge whats works best for people on here!!!


None of us have said one works best and only this one, shut up you penis.


----------



## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

I love clean food,it just tastes better......a lot of kids on forums are all on clen,t3..eca's..dnp etc

so chugging down some junk wont really register,just pop a few more pills:lol:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> None of us have said one works best and only this one, shut up you penis.


Once again trying to insult. I am not going to bring my self down to your level.


----------



## MrSilver (Aug 4, 2014)

If willpower allows - clean.

The other 90% of people - IIFYM.

Or a mixture if you can't help yourself... :lol:


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

A1243R said:


> Sorry my comment was wrong.... He hasn't insulted me because i just laugh and find him pretty pathetic, but he does throw insults around for no apparent reason and for no need at all.
> 
> I don't like asparagus


Hopefully Liam doesn't put it in your meal plan then


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Are we really doing this thread again, guise? I mean, REALLY???


----------



## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

I said:


> Are we really doing this thread again' date=' guise? I mean, REALLY???[/quote']
> 
> It's like that old movie war games,they've not realised nobody can win the war yet


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> None of us have said one works best and only this one, shut up you penis.


don't insult other members or you will be banned


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

guys stop with the insults, it shows a lack of intelligence to resort to name calling and to assume that you and you only know the best way to do things.......


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> don't insult other members or you will be banned


Then 80% of the forum should be banned.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> Then 80% of the forum should be banned.


i can only react to the posts i see.......


----------



## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Only read the first page so don't know if this has been brought up... but the question shouldn't really be 'IIFYM v Clean', it should be 'Flexible v Set'.

Using IIFYM and clean eating are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

2004mark said:


> Only read the first page so don't know if this has been brought up... but the question shouldn't really be 'IIFYM v Clean', it should be 'Flexible v Set'.
> 
> Using IIFYM and clean eating are not mutually exclusive.


Yes it should be - my bad mate


----------



## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Yes it should be - my bad mate


Forgiven... just this once


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Why doesn't everyone involved in this debate put a recent pic of themselves up stating which diet style they follow


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Why doesn't everyone involved in this debate put a recent pic of themselves up stating which diet style they follow


Good idea :thumb:

@Dark sim @banzi @TELBOR

You all eat clean...

@Jalex @bigape @TommyBananas you all flexible diet


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I eat whatever I want


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Why doesn't everyone involved in this debate put a recent pic of themselves up stating which diet style they follow


Gunna have to disagree with you there.

Why would this be relevant? People's training routine/experience, drug use current goal etc all play such a huge part.

You couldn't put a physique down to flexible/set dieting..>!

p.s. you just wnna show me ya musclees dont ya :whistling:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Clean diet - low carbs, high fats & protein

8 days into a cut - 7lbs down - look a lot leaner :thumb:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jalex said:


> Gunna have to disagree with you there.
> 
> Why would this be relevant? People's training routine/experience, drug use current goal etc all play such a huge part.
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity

The amount of people I get telling me about my diet is stupid but it obviously works for me


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

A1243R said:


> Clean diet - low carbs, high fats & protein
> 
> 8 days into a cut - 7lbs down - look a lot leaner :thumb:
> 
> View attachment 173593


u got a pic of your glutes so i can judge effectively?


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Big ape said:


> u got a pic of your glutes so i can judge effectively?


Got one of my c*ck I'f that's better?


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Good idea :thumb:
> 
> @Dark sim @banzi @TELBOR
> 
> ...


My pictures are easily accesible in my log, my instagram etc.

Stop fvcking tagging me in ****, your weird obsessive behaviour is strange.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Good idea :thumb:
> 
> @Dark sim @banzi @TELBOR
> 
> ...


 @PHMG eats what he wants



A1243R said:


> Good idea :thumb:
> 
> @Dark sim @banzi @TELBOR
> 
> ...


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Just out of curiosity
> 
> The amount of people I get telling me about my diet is stupid but it obviously works for me


Do what works for you :thumb: don't rell people they are wrong because they don't follow what you do or vice versa


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> @PHMG eats what he wants


He does! Looks ****ing great too... I think If he competes or when he competes he does diet though but I may be wrong


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

A1243R said:


> Got one of my c*ck I'f that's better?


 :thumb:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> My pictures are easily accesible in my log, my instagram etc.
> 
> Stop fvcking tagging me in ****, your weird obsessive behaviour is strange.


This was @FelonE 's idea, no need to get ****y is there. Act like an adult.


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

A1243R said:


> This was @FelonE 's idea, no need to get ****y is there. Act like an adult.


He can't, It's not in his make up.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> This was @FelonE 's idea, no need to get ****y is there. Act like an adult.


And FelonE knows what I look like as we follow each other on Instagram and he stalks my Facebook (loljk Paul xxx) - it's not like I shy away from posting stuff about myself.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Good idea :thumb:
> 
> @Dark sim @banzi @TELBOR
> 
> ...


I am a flexible dieter, especially off season, but done properly. I now have mcdonalds every training day (srs), due to the amount of calories. I'm not typically a big eater so no way on earth can I eat bodybuilding "bro" food to the tune of 5k+

My diet I posted about 6 weeks ago. This has now increased by about 500 kcal.

Today (training day) -

Meal 1 - Shreddies with milk (eaten in a bowl) / Egg whites with whey, with coconut milk for fats (blended) 60c/65p/15f

Meal 2 - as above

Meal 3 - Chicken curry meal from asda (46p/80c/16f)

Meal 4 - Turkey rashers, 4 sausages, 4 slices wholemeal 60c/65p/20f

Meal 5 - 2 tins of tuna blended, 200g frozen yoghurt 80c/60p

Train

Intra 75g dextrose, 20g peptopro 75c/15p

Post workout 80g whey / 120g haribo or equivalent 100c/65p

Meal 6 300g sweet potato fries / 250g-300g steak 60c/65p/15f


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> And FelonE knows what I look like as we follow each other on Instagram and he stalks my Facebook (loljk Paul xxx) - it's not like I shy away from posting stuff about myself.


It was more to give the forum and thread a purpose and to see who looks better (on this forum) IIFYM'ers or Clean Eaters.. All in one thread.


----------



## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

I propose a fight club thread where everyone can go and throw insults at each other,but as per fight club rules anything said in there can't be discussed outside of that thread


----------



## Peace frog (Jul 2, 2014)

Will keep all the handbags in one place


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> It was more to give the forum and thread a purpose and to see who looks better (on this forum) IIFYM'ers or Clean Eaters.. All in one thread.


Who cares who looks better?!?!?! It doesn't mean method a b c x y z works better than the other. SO many factors come into play.

Adherance, drug use, laziness. Like why would you care if 90% of this forum who used clean eating looked better than the other 10%? It means nothing.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

A1243R said:


> It was more to give the forum and thread a purpose and to see who looks better (on this forum) IIFYM'ers or Clean Eaters.. All in one thread.


You keep tagging people as clean eaters with huge backfire


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> You keep tagging people as clean eaters with huge backfire


Gotta admit I did laugh when Darksim said that


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> You keep tagging people as clean eaters with huge backfire


One person... But yeah I thought he was clean :lol: I'm not a big advocate of either.. I have not disagreed with Tommy I just said I don't like the way he goes about things.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I am a flexible dieter, especially off season, but done properly. I now have mcdonalds every training day (srs), due to the amount of calories. I'm not typically a big eater so no way on earth can I eat bodybuilding "bro" food to the tune of 5k+
> 
> My diet I posted about 6 weeks ago. This has now increased by about 500 kcal.
> 
> ...


I really am starting to think you're the one (no ****)


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Gotta admit I did laugh when Darksim said that


I proper lol'd :lol:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

A1243R said:


> I proper lol'd :lol:


I think on my next bulk I'll be eating dirty... **** the IIFYM :lol: eat 4500/5000 Cals a day and decking smash it! My cuts will also be no carbs and clean tho as the results im having are great :thumb:


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> I am a flexible dieter, especially off season, but done properly. I now have mcdonalds every training day (srs), due to the amount of calories. I'm not typically a big eater so no way on earth can I eat bodybuilding "bro" food to the tune of 5k+
> 
> My diet I posted about 6 weeks ago. This has now increased by about 500 kcal.
> 
> ...


What about when cutting?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> I think on my next bulk I'll be eating dirty... **** the IIFYM  eat 4500/5000 Cals a day and decking smash it! My cuts will also be no carbs and clean tho as the results im having are great :thumb:


When I cut I have 3 shakes, low fat greek yoghurt and tuna and veg. That's it apart some Rich Tea lol


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Big ape said:


> Insulted ... its a forum .. if you let someone over a computer insult you then maybe you should see a professional psychiatrist or eat your asparagus alone without UKM


No need for name calling....

Mostly when you look like a potato


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> When I cut I have 3 shakes, low fat greek yoghurt and tuna and veg. That's it apart some Rich Tea lol


Clean :thumb: and look how quick you cut :thumb:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Clean :thumb: and look how quick you cut :thumb:


Because it's 2000 cals with 5 days of hiit


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

my current diet on a training day (M/W/F)

Meal 1 - 2 chicken burgers (carnivore meats), 2 slice of cheese, 2 egg omelette, sauerkraut

Meal 2 - 225g chicken breast, feta cheese/avocado salad, sauerkraut

Meal 3 - 100g Oats, 2 tbsp Almond butter (cocao&Coconut) 2 scoops blended whey protein drink

Intra shake - 50g Branch dextrin/25g peptoPro

PWO - 100g carbs normally from 100g of lion cereal + 160g red grapes, 250ml unsweetened Almond milk, 50g Pro from Whey isolate

Meal 5 - this depends but normally 100g carbs from Jasmine rice, Chicken, pineapple, sauerkraut (sometimes will have steak but that depends on if i am using Insulin or not)

Meal 6 - Total yogurt, fruit

maybe a flapjack here and there if i am on the road but generally this is what i eat Monday through friday and relax on the weekends, although i don't eat that much just what i want....


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

SCOOT123 said:


> Excuse my ignorance but, what is the meaning of IIFYM...Like why did it come about? What was it's sort of soul purpose.
> 
> I was under the impression that it was made to allow the casual dieter/gym goer (not a competitor) to build there own diet and have some form of flexibility.
> 
> ...


I forget the name of who, think it might have been Alan Aragon was discussing, maybe debating with someone, and said "yeah you can eat that, if it fits your macros". Then when this was being discussed on a forum, the OP, instead of typing it out started to write IIFYM. It became very popular and as with most things taken out of context, exaggerated. Now you have so called BBs, casual gym goers using it as an excuse to shove whatever they want down their throat.

It is about being able to swap foods in and out without impacting the final result.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I forget the name of who, think it might have been Alan Aragon was discussing, maybe debating with someone, and said "yeah you can eat that, if it fits your macros". Then when this was being discussed on a forum, the OP, instead of typing it out started to write IIFYM. It became very popular and as with most things taken out of context, exaggerated. Now you have so called BBs, casual gym goers using it as an excuse to shove whatever they want down their throat.
> 
> It is about being able to swap foods in and out without impacting the final result.


Basically it; the video is here and yeah it was Aragon


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> my current diet on a training day (M/W/F)
> 
> Meal 1 - 2 chicken burgers (carnivore meats), 2 slice of cheese, 2 egg omelette, sauerkraut
> 
> ...


Is this bulking or cutting?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> What about when cutting?


Obviously different macros. Not much in there I wouldn't use during prep.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dan94 said:


> Is this bulking or cutting?


neither really, i am 2 weeks post comp so just settling into a nutrition plan, i have a holiday in 8 weeks so will maintain my condition as it is currently (8%, 210lbs) but slowly push carbs up over the coming weeks....


----------



## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

Ive got lean eating IIFYM

Ive also got lean eating nothing but plain rice n white fish


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Jalex said:


> I really am starting to think you're the one (no ****)


Told you, I decide who is the "one".


----------



## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> I am a flexible dieter, especially off season, but done properly. I now have mcdonalds every training day (srs), due to the amount of calories. I'm not typically a big eater so no way on earth can I eat bodybuilding "bro" food to the tune of 5k+
> 
> My diet I posted about 6 weeks ago. This has now increased by about 500 kcal.
> 
> ...


Im glad you eat your shreddies in a bowl rather than just scoop some in ya hand an splash some milk on em


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Told you, I decide who is the "one".


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> neither really, i am 2 weeks post comp so just settling into a nutrition plan, i have a holiday in 8 weeks so will maintain my condition as it is currently (8%, 210lbs) but slowly push carbs up over the coming weeks....


Do you have a thread/anywhere with pics from your comp?

Where did you rank/how did it go?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

mrwright said:


> Im glad you eat your shreddies in a bowl rather than just scoop some in ya hand an splash some milk on em


I'm civilised, not many people know that.


----------



## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

bail said:


> Just eat what agrees with you and your digestive tract imo


That's it for me too. Most things that are considered a treat bloat me out and give me the sh1ts.


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> my current diet on a training day (M/W/F)
> 
> Meal 1 - 2 chicken burgers (carnivore meats), 2 slice of cheese, 2 egg omelette, sauerkraut
> 
> ...


How do you prepare if even the sauerkraut? I find it great for aiding in digestion, gut health etc but salty as hell!!


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Jalex said:


> Do you have a thread/anywhere with pics from your comp?
> 
> Where did you rank/how did it go?


There are a few in the Prep the series thread in Gen Con, second to Tom at the qualifier and 7th at the British


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Galaxy said:


> How do you prepare if even the sauerkraut? I find it great for aiding in digestion, gut health etc but salty as hell!!


I buy it from the shops and just eat it as is, I had a load of digestion issues on prep and although I still have some this stuff helps loads


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> I buy it from the shops and just eat it as is, I had a load of digestion issues on prep and although I still have some this stuff helps loads


Figured that mate, meant as in do you eat it as is out of the jar raw or cook it?

My digestion isn't great so every little thing helps, apple cider vinegar with mother I find great also.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

'Proper' IIFYM involves significant experimentation with macros to find the optimal 'Your Macros' on an individual basis.

Rather than going for any sort of allowed 'junk' quota, I stick to a daily fibre minimum of 10g per 1000 kcal. This ensures a reasonably healthy diet without needing to decide which foods are somehow good or bad. This was an idea I got from a Layne Norton video log.

There are other considerations to my diet but they go beyond IIFYM/clean.


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Dark sim said:


> IIFYM crew are like a bloody religious cult lol.
> 
> They be like, "burn the clean eating scum", whilst waving their krispy kreme's in the air and spraying each other with Monster.


Yeah agreed its getting silly now


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> 'Proper' IIFYM involves significant experimentation with macros to find the optimal 'Your Macros' on an individual basis.
> 
> Rather than going for any sort of allowed 'junk' quota, I stick to a daily fibre minimum of 30g per 1000 kcal. This ensures a reasonably healthy diet without needing to decide which foods are somehow good or bad. This was an idea I got from a Layne Norton video log.
> 
> There are other considerations to my diet but they go beyond IIFYM/clean.


Thats a lot of fibre, you sure?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

One benefit of proper IIFYM that isn't usually mentioned is that it forces people to properly track what they eat. Obviously this can also be done by eating clean but many don't and for me I think consistency is important, both when cutting and bulking. That's not to say people can't get results without doing this (e.g. banzi) but I think most people benefit from this.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dark sim said:


> Thats a lot of fibre, you sure?


Sorry not with you, am I sure about what?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sorry not with you, am I sure about what?


Thought Layne recommended 10g fibre per 1000 cals


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dark sim said:


> Thats a lot of fibre, you sure?


Sorry, you're right, I meant to say 10g fibre per 1000 kcal. I'm eating 2950 kcal per day at the moment which is why I had the 30 g figure in my head. Doh!

(I'll edit my post.)


----------



## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

I eat eggs, bagels, rice, chicken, veg, whey, peanut butter. Sunday I usually have chilli and rice for tea. I also have an ice cream maker so I eat ice cream once a week. I'll eat the odd biscuit and drink half a bottle of wine a week.

Guess I'm iifym


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

BrahmaBull said:


> Thought Layne recommended 10g fibre per 1000 cals


Must admit I couldn't remember quite what he'd said, I was just meaning to say he gave the idea of the tracking fibre approach. I did screw up the numbers though!


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Must admit I couldn't remember quite what he'd said, I was just meaning to say he gave the idea of the tracking fibre approach. I did screw up the numbers though!


This is similar to how I do my gf's diet. She has a protein target, a fibre target and a calorie limit per day.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Galaxy said:


> Figured that mate, meant as in do you eat it as is out of the jar raw or cook it?
> 
> My digestion isn't great so every little thing helps, apple cider vinegar with mother I find great also.


Sorry mate, eat it out of the jar buddy


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sen said:


> I eat eggs, bagels, rice, chicken, veg, whey, peanut butter. Sunday I usually have chilli and rice for tea. I also have an ice cream maker so I eat ice cream once a week. I'll eat the odd biscuit and drink half a bottle of wine a week.
> 
> Guess I'm iifym


No your normal


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

FelonE said:


> When I cut I have 3 shakes, low fat greek yoghurt and tuna and veg. That's it apart some Rich Tea lol


Didn't know you liked a rich tea mate :whistling:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

spudsy said:


> Didn't know you liked a rich tea mate :whistling:


I don't like to talk about it


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

FelonE said:


> I don't like to talk about it


Best way mate, it'd cause all sorts of dramas if you did.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

spudsy said:


> Best way mate, it'd cause all sorts of dramas if you did.


I can imagine lol

People might start thinking I eat loads of them all day,silly buggers


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Good idea :thumb:
> 
> @Dark sim @banzi @TELBOR
> 
> ...


What makes you think i eat clean?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> What makes you think i eat clean?


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

banzi said:


> What makes you think i eat clean?


I have no idea :lol: anyway I don't want any more to do with this thread haha


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

A1243R said:


> I have no idea :lol: anyway I don't want any more to do with this thread haha


Coward :thumbup1:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

spudsy said:


> Coward :thumbup1:


 :lol: cvnt haha!

Anybody would think after this thread I'm a massive clean eater but I'm not, on a cut I eat clean because I get the best results but otherwise I est pretty much what I want inline with protein... That will change when i bulk with my coach but I'm not adverse to flexible dieting just don't like the way people think it's the only way to be... That's what *****s me off


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

A1243R said:


> cvnt haha!
> 
> Anybody would think after this thread I'm a massive clean eater but I'm not, on a cut I eat clean because I get the best results but otherwise I est pretty much what I want inline with protein... That will change when i bulk with my coach but I'm not adverse to flexible dieting just don't like the way people think it's the only way to be... That's what *****s me off


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Actually having the poll is interesting, as the recent 'discussions' have mostly just been between a small minority of members.


----------



## miguelmolez (Apr 12, 2010)

Your body will utilise whatever you put into it whether its clean or dirty. If you're in a deficit you will lose weight, its basic science.

I eat clean 80% of the time so I'm getting a wholesome amount of food in my body, also when I start eating too much junk I end up binging, so limit myself.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

miguelmolez said:


> *Your body will utilise whatever you put into it whether its clean or dirty. If you're in a deficit you will lose weight, its basic science. *
> 
> I eat clean 80% of the time so I'm getting a wholesome amount of food in my body, also when I start eating too much junk I end up binging, so limit myself.


So if thats true why eat clean 80% of the time?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> So if thats true why eat clean 80% of the time?


Please not again lol


----------



## miguelmolez (Apr 12, 2010)

banzi said:


> So if thats true why eat clean 80% of the time?


I covered that in the next sentence.


----------



## Bora (Dec 27, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Actually having the poll is interesting, as the recent 'discussions' have mostly just been between a small minority of members.


How the fvck do you view the poll on tapatalk ? Can't find it


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> Please not again lol


They cant make their minds up the old IIFMM brigade.

"Foods food, calories are calories, it doesnt matter what you eat as long as you are in a deficit, oh, and I eat clean most of the time"


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

miguelmolez said:


> I covered that in the next sentence.


Yes, you contradicted yourself, hence my post


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Bora said:


> How the fvck do you view the poll on tapatalk ? Can't find it


No ones voted

tell a lie people eating a normal western diet (IIFMM) is in the lead


----------



## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> neither really, i am 2 weeks post comp so just settling into a nutrition plan, i have a holiday in 8 weeks so will maintain my condition as it is currently (8%, 210lbs) but slowly push carbs up over the coming weeks....


8% and 210lbs  I can only dream lol


----------



## miguelmolez (Apr 12, 2010)

banzi said:


> Yes, you contradicted yourself, hence my post


No I didn't. I prefer to eat wholesome foods to get the right amount on nutrients etc out of what I eat AND it stops me from continuing to eat junk.

As long as you are getting the right macros in it will have no difference on body composition no matter what you eat, however eating healthy nutritious food most of the time is good practice for long term health in my opinion.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

miguelmolez said:


> No I didn't. I prefer to eat wholesome foods to get the right amount on nutrients etc out of what I eat AND it stops me from continuing to eat junk.
> 
> As long as you are getting the right macros in it will have no difference on body composition no matter what you eat, however eating healthy nutritious food most of the time is good practice for long term health in my opinion.


I think @banzi point is why stop eating junk if as long as you stay in a deficit you will lose weight/fat? From your post it does read that no matter what you eat its all good as long as your in a deficit......

So why not just eat junk food its basic science right??


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

SCOOT123 said:


> 8% and 210lbs  I can only dream lol


I M probably lower in body fat to be fair as I am only 6lbs over stage weight this morning (200lbs onstage) and I was a fraction under 6% on stage..... I was just being conservative..... But I am at this level because of 6months of show prep it's not what I walk round at most of the time, in the off season I am more nearer the 10-11% mark at 220lbs ish.......


----------



## miguelmolez (Apr 12, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> I think @banzi point is why stop eating junk if as long as you stay in a deficit you will lose weight/fat? From your post it does read that no matter what you eat its all good as long as your in a deficit......
> 
> So why not just eat junk food its basic science right??


Probably the way I worded post initially sorry. Hope I've cleared it up in my last post as to why I prefer to eat clean most of the time?

'As long as you are getting the right macros in it will have no difference on body composition no matter what you eat, however eating healthy nutritious food most of the time is good practice for long term health in my opinion.'


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

You do and then you don't because you clearly say "as long as you get the correct macro's there will be no difference in body composition" so from that you could take it as you could eat all junk as long as your getting the right amount of Pro/Fat/Carbs then you will lost fat..... This is not true IMO I am afraid


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> You do and then you don't because you clearly say "as long as you get the correct macro's there will be no difference in body composition" so from that you could take it as you could eat all junk as long as your getting the right amount of Pro/Fat/Carbs then you will lost fat..... This is not true IMO I am afraid


I'm glad someone like you has said this on here. There's way to many knowalls on here that quite clearly have no clue and just preach what they've heard or read elsewhere


----------



## miguelmolez (Apr 12, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> You do and then you don't because you clearly say "as long as you get the correct macro's there will be no difference in body composition" so from that you could take it as you could eat all junk as long as your getting the right amount of Pro/Fat/Carbs then you will lost fat..... This is not true IMO I am afraid


I supose everyones different. I know people who eat crap all day and manage to stay lean and muscular somehow? I put weight on fast so try to stay as clean as possible as to not trigger a binge.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bora said:


> How the fvck do you view the poll on tapatalk ? Can't find it


Sadly I don't think you can. It was about 60:40 IIFYM:clean last night. Although that's trying to ask people who use a wide range of approaches to pick one or the other so its far from perfect.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sadly I don't think you can. It was about 60:40 IIFYM:clean last night. Although that's trying to ask people who use a wide range of approaches to pick one or the other so its far from perfect.


 @Bora

IIFYM - 36

Clean -27


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Well that's not IIFYM its that individuals metabolism, my wife can eat what she wants and stays a size 8 that doesn't mean she is in the IIFYM gang it's just she has a fast metabolism and can burn anything she eats off.......

You take the average gym rat and the majority will not be able to eat a diet made up of only junk food but then as we all know that is not IIFYM but as you have pointed out its basic science

Deficit no matter the food choice = fat loss so why can you not eat pizza and ice cream all day and be shredded??


----------



## miguelmolez (Apr 12, 2010)

Abc987 said:


> I'm glad someone like you has said this on here. There's way to many knowalls on here that quite clearly have no clue and just preach what they've heard or read elsewhere


So reading something elsewhere and posting it here instantly voids it as viable information?


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

banzi said:


> They cant make their minds up the old IIFMM brigade.
> 
> "Foods food, calories are calories, it doesnt matter what you eat as long as you are in a deficit, oh, and I eat clean most of the time"


Tommy posted a while back a video of a guy explaining the term ifym was more for foods such as whole eggs chicken breast with skin on etc then it half makes sense

But then it's back to pizza and whey ontop

And people can say what they want but a trans fat is still not good for you


----------



## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

I voted clean, doesn't mean I always eat clean, but if you are saying a calorie is a calorie, then no, we should not be defined by the laws of thermo dynamics we are a biological animal, we produce hormones, you can abuse this or use this.

Modern food such as trans fats and corn syrup (fructose2.0 will mess this system up, there is a problem with the latter not supressing ghrelin and a spiking leptin apparently??

If you think you can eat anything as long as it fits your macro intake then at best you are going to be the guy that looks decent in a T shirt at the end of the bar, but you are not going to be winning big trophy's in bodybuilding with that outlook, but that's just my opinion.....


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

miguelmolez said:


> So reading something elsewhere and posting it here instantly voids it as viable information?


I'm not saying it makes it void but I'd rather take advise or someone that's been in the game for years and tried things out, not a 20 odd year old that looks like shvt but says it's ok to eat what you want because that's what they've read (not digging at anyone personally btw)

I'm all about trying things out for myself. I follow a flexible diet to a certain degree but most of my food is clean. I'm only joe blogs off the street so no reason to be 100% and that works for me. I like a high protein diet whereas some will say it's not needed and a waste

People bang on about how they are iifym and eat pizza all day but are running t3s to compensate. If that's what they want to do fine but it doesn't mean it's what we should all do. Each to there own and I'm happy with the way I do things ATM


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Flexible Dieting: The Ultimate Guide To IIFYM "If It Fits Your Macros" Written By Elliot Reimers | SimplyShredded.com


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Abc987 said:


> I'm glad someone like you has said this on here. There's way to many knowalls on here that quite clearly have no clue and just preach what they've heard or read elsewhere


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Big ape said:


>


It's true. To many knowalls on here


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Abc987 said:


> I'm not saying it makes it void but I'd rather take advise or someone that's been in the game for years and tried things out, not a 20 odd year old that looks like shvt but says it's ok to eat what you want because that's what they've read (not digging at anyone personally btw)
> 
> I'm all about trying things out for myself. I follow a flexible diet to a certain degree but most of my food is clean. I'm only joe blogs off the street so no reason to be 100% and that works for me. I like a high protein diet whereas some will say it's not needed and a waste
> 
> People bang on about how they are iifym and eat pizza all day but are running t3s to compensate. If that's what they want to do fine but it doesn't mean it's what we should all do. Each to there own and I'm happy with the way I do things ATM


Couldn't agree more mate.

I know we have spoken before and both follow similar diets and ideas as we both have realistic expectations of the physique that is manageable without having to go to extremes.

Bodybuilding for me is a hobby and it only part defines my lifestyle.


----------



## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> I M probably lower in body fat to be fair as I am only 6lbs over stage weight this morning (200lbs onstage) and I was a fraction under 6% on stage..... I was just being conservative..... But I am at this level because of 6months of show prep it's not what I walk round at most of the time, in the off season I am more nearer the 10-11% mark at 220lbs ish.......


So your telling me you never really go above 11% BF all year? lol man thats crazy! I can dream again haha.

I am currently 19% @ 108kg - Looking to get down to 12% - Got a tough journey ahead of me!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big ape said:


> Flexible Dieting: The Ultimate Guide To IIFYM "If It Fits Your Macros" Written By Elliot Reimers | SimplyShredded.com


https://www.muscleandstrength.com/authors/elliott-reimers

Yes, lets listen to Elliott, he ceratinly looks the part.

He looks like he just eats a normal western diet....which is essentially what IIFMM is.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> You do and then you don't because you clearly say "as long as you get the correct macro's there will be no difference in body composition" so from that you could take it as you could eat all junk as long as your getting the right amount of Pro/Fat/Carbs then you will lost fat..... This is not true IMO I am afraid


Yes, yes it is.

Alan Aragon has stated this also, it is just long term health is at risk if you eat this way. Nor would anyone want to eat 'junk' all day as you can feel a bit awful if you were to do so. Also the fact that it's hard to hit macros with *just* junk.

So I am afraid you are wrong and shouldn't make such statements as "This is not true IMO" Science doesn't care about your opinion.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> Yes, yes it is.
> 
> Alan Aragon has stated this also, it is just long term health is at risk if you eat this way. Nor would anyone want to eat 'junk' all day as you can feel a bit awful if you were to do so. Also the fact that it's hard to hit macros with *just* junk.
> 
> So I am afraid you are wrong and shouldn't make such statements as "This is not true IMO" Science doesn't care about your opinion.


As I do not care about yours, I stand by what I say if your diet is 100% junk food no matter the deficit you will not change your body composition for the better, losing weight is not the same as losing fat

Maybe you can form your own opinion instead of constantly quoting Alan Aarogn all the time (who I think is a very knowledgable guy)


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> Yes, yes it is.
> 
> Alan Aragon has stated this also, it is just long term health is at risk if you eat this way. Nor would anyone want to eat 'junk' all day as you can feel a bit awful if you were to do so. Also the fact that it's hard to hit macros with *just* junk.
> 
> So I am afraid you are wrong and shouldn't make such statements as "This is not true IMO" Science doesn't care about your opinion.


You pick your battles lol

So could I eat cake (low fat) whey and

Sunflower oil? And look decent if I eat the same macros


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> As I do not care about yours, I stand by what I say if your diet is 100% junk food no matter the deficit you will not change your body composition for the better, losing weight is not the same as losing fat
> 
> Maybe you can form your own opinion instead of constantly quoting Alan Aarogn all the time (who I think is a very knowledgable guy)


I formed my own opinion when I abused IIFYM to get lean.

Now; plenty of people have done a 100% junk diet and lost weight in experiments that are well documented. You are simply wrong.

If you think Alan is so knowledgeable, he says body composition goals can be met eating junk too - you saying hes wrong?


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

bail said:


> You pick your battles lol
> 
> So could I eat cake (low fat) whey and
> 
> Sunflower oil? And look decent if I eat the same macros


Yes. If your macros were the same. Maybe you'd hold more water (unlikely you'd be hitting an aboormal amount of sodium though) if some food was higher than your usual sodium or something but your fat gain/loss etc etc would be the same.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Losing weight is not the same as losing fat, and experiments under strict criteria is not the same as the real world........


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> Losing weight is not the same as losing fat, and experiments under strict criteria is not the same as the real world........


You can try and spin it and paint it anyway you want. You are wrong with the information I provided whiich was. If macros are hit. You can keep changing it to the idea of ignoring macros if you want to try and prove your point.

I said if macros are hit, body composition is the same.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

I have also formed my own opinion from coaching those who have followed this method with more junk that clean food and yes they lost weight but they looked crap now if this is your goal purely a loss on the scales then I stand corrected you are correct but if your goal is to lost fat and look better my own formed opinion says no


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> I have also formed my own opinion from coaching those who have followed this method with more junk that clean food and yes they lost weight but they looked crap now if this is your goal purely a loss on the scales then I stand corrected you are correct but if your goal is to lost fat and look better my own formed opinion says no


It is physically impossible to lose less fat if you eat junk food, providing macros are hit and calories are the same. No food stops fat loss, period.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> *Losing weight is not the same as losing fat, and experiments under strict criteria is not the same as the real world*........


This is the truest statement of the whole thread.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> You can try and spin it and paint it anyway you want. You are wrong with the information I provided whiich was. If macros are hit. You can keep changing it to the idea of ignoring macros if you want to try and prove your point.
> 
> I said if macros are hit, body composition is the same.


You need to read the post and see who I have replied to, as I said yesterday if you use this method as it was designed and that is to add a little flexibility to your diet it is a method that can work for most, but you quoted a answer that I made to a member who said that you can eat 100% junk and it would work and in my opinion it will not...

There is no moving of goal posts you just are not reading the conversation correctly


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> This is the truest statement of the whole thread.


No its a cop-out for broscientists.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> You need to read the post and see who I have replied to, as I said yesterday if you use this method as it was designed and that is to add a little flexibility to your diet it is a method that can work for most, but you quoted a answer that I made to a member who said that you can eat 100% junk and it would work and in my opinion it will not...
> 
> There is no moving of goal posts you just are not reading the conversation correctly


And I've told you - if you could hit macros eating 100% junk bodycomposition would be the same. But I've also said it's impossible to hit macros eating just junk.

You then said eating a diet with more junk than clean food; would yield worse results than someone who ate more clean than junk.

This statement is NOT true.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> No its a cop-out for broscientists.


No it's a fact and the thousands of women who do cardio and eat practically full all prove this by being lighter yet look like crap it's not broscience


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> It is physically impossible to lose less fat if you eat junk food, providing macros are hit and calories are the same. No food stops fat loss, period.


Coming from someone who cant lose fat for sh*t :lol: I can't believe you still wont actually listen to someone who has competed for best part of 20 years, tried numerous diets, coaches people (far better than you do) and looks absolutely great for his age :thumb:


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

banzi said:


> He looks like he just eats a normal western diet....which is essentially what IIFMM is.


You often say this but it's nonsense. Proper IIFYM, where you properly stick to individualised macro targets, is nothing like a normal western diet. 'Normal' people don't stick to a daily calorie target let alone macro targets.

Proper IIFYM takes effort and control, it is not a lazy option.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> No it's a fact and the thousands of women who do cardio and eat practically full all prove this by being lighter yet look like crap it's not broscience


Thousands of women with anecodotal claims and women who *do not hit macros* are not to be brought into this equation.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Coming from someone who cant lose fat for sh*t :lol: I can't believe you still wont actually listen to someone who has competed for best part of 20 years, tried numerous diets, coaches people (far better than you do) and looks absolutely great for his age :thumb:


I could be clinically obese and my scientific based points would still be right.

I was leaner in my diary pics on page one than you are now, be quiet.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> No its a cop-out for broscientists.


IMO you cant accept other peoples views and don't live in the real world... You will not accept that science in a laboratory is not the same as the real and that is just ridiculous.

PS - I am glad you have grown up and don't have to insult people today to get your point across.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I could be clinically obese and my scientific based points would still be right.
> 
> I was leaner in my diary pics on page one than you are now, be quiet.


You were, well done, I also said you looked good there. I have lost nearly as much if not more weight in 10 days then you have lost in your how ever many weeks cut? Must be 6 weeks now?

Science isn't always correct... It may be in a Lab but not in the real world...


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> You were, well done, I also said you looked good there. I have lost nearly as much if not more weight in 10 days then you have lost in your how ever many weeks cut? Must be 6 weeks now?
> 
> Science isn't always correct... It may be in a Lab but not in the real world...


So therefor when I told you I got that way eating a majority junk diet, you seemed to ignore it - and I did that cut very fast, on quite low calories.

My diary shows I over-eat I hide *nothing* - that is why I don't lose fat, you've also see my diary is majority CLEAN so your points all come crashing around you.

Also, I can lose 10 lbs over night if I want, what was your point here? You are out your depth.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> As I do not care about yours, I stand by what I say if your diet is 100% junk food no matter the deficit you will not change your body composition for the better, losing weight is not the same as losing fat
> 
> Maybe you can form your own opinion instead of constantly quoting Alan Aarogn all the time (who I think is a very knowledgable guy)


No offence but your site quotes him a fair bit also


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> So therefor when I told you I got that way eating a majority junk diet, you seemed to ignore it - and I did that cut very fast, on quite low calories.
> 
> My diary shows I over-eat I hide *nothing* - that is why I don't lose fat, you've also see my diary is majority CLEAN so your points all come crashing around you.
> 
> Also, I can lose 10 lbs over night if I want, what was your point here? You are out your depth.


I haven't ignored that point... My point is what works best for people on this forum.... That's all I wanted to know... I personally don't advocate either of these diets... I would quite happily use either but for me* personally *the results are better on a *clean diet *. I personally think your very close minded and need to start taking in other peoples points, at the end of the day it may make you a better coach!

I had a look over your diary... you don't over eat massively IMO. What I define as clean and you define as clean are different though I suppose.

Do it then on 1800 cals?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Let's just all eat cake and be friends lol


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I could be clinically obese and my scientific based points would still be right.
> 
> I was leaner in my diary pics on page one than you are now, be quiet.


If you also want to start saying things like that, I am almost as strong as you at similar weight yet never train for strength :lol:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Let's just all eat cake and be friends lol


Sounds good to me :thumb: I am hungry on this cut, but looking better everyday so that's what its about :thumb:


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

FelonE said:


> Let's just all eat cake and be friends lol


Holding cals back until tonight because I fit nights out into my macros rather than gorge myself sick after a week of clean eating lol


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> I haven't ignored that point... My point is what works best for people on this forum.... That's all I wanted to know... I personally don't advocate either of these diets... I would quite happily use either but for me personally the results are better on a *clean diet *. I personally think your very close minded and need to start taking in other peoples points, at the end of the day it may make you a better coach!
> 
> I had a look over your diary... you don't over eat massively IMO. What I define as clean and you define as clean are different though I suppose.
> 
> Do it then on 1800 cals?


"I would quite happily use either but for me personally the results are better on a clean diet"

If calories and macros are the same, the results are the same.

I eat the way I do now because I enjoy the foods I eat, I still have my monsters now and again - I still fit a treat or two in if I feel I want something. I over-eat enough to slow my fat loss, I'm completely sedentary apart from my 30 mins cardio 3x a week and my 3x a week training.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> So therefor when I told you I got that way eating a majority junk diet, you seemed to ignore it - and I did that cut very fast, on quite low calories.
> 
> My diary shows I over-eat I hide *nothing* - that is why I don't lose fat, you've also see my diary is majority CLEAN so your points all come crashing around you.
> 
> *Also, I can lose 10 lbs over night if I want, what was your point here? You are out your depth.*


How?


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> If you also want to start saying things like that, I am almost as strong as you at similar weight yet never train for strength :lol:


Whatever lol, I could sit here and tell you my legs are twice the size of yours and all I do is squat.

I don't care, the fact is you're not leaner than I was and you're not stronger than I am, so stop trying to give it.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> "I would quite happily use either but for me personally the results are better on a clean diet"
> 
> If calories and macros are the same, the results are the same.
> 
> I eat the way I do now because I enjoy the foods I eat, I still have my monsters now and again - I still fit a treat or two in if I feel I want something. I over-eat enough to slow my fat loss, I'm completely sedentary apart from my 30 mins cardio 3x a week and my 3x a week training.


They don't for me personally.... I must defy science....


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> How?


Dropping carbs, water, steam baths, the same things people manage to do to drop 20 lbs before a fight.. lol.

It was merely pointing out just because hee has lost "xx" amount of weight in a certain time faster than me/anyone else doesn't make it fat.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> They don't for me personally.... I must defy science....


You don't defy science, you just never did flexible dieting correctly.

Now you can say you did, but you didn't.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Whatever lol, I could sit here and tell you my legs are twice the size of yours and all I do is squat.
> 
> I don't care, the fact is you're not leaner than I was and you're not stronger than I am, so stop trying to give it.


How do you know your legs are twice the size of mine?

We are also talking about present day... I am leaner than you currently.... yet I was probably fatter than you 1 days ago....

Out of curiosity what are your 1RM?


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Dropping carbs, water, steam baths, the same things people manage to do to drop 20 lbs before a fight.. lol.
> 
> It was merely pointing out just because hee has lost "xx" amount of weight in a certain time faster than me/anyone else doesn't make it fat.


I never said I lost fat.... the majority of that will be water weight... It has made me look a lot leaner though so I am happy :thumb:


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> You don't defy science, you just never did flexible dieting correctly.
> 
> Now you can say you did, but you didn't.


Can see why coaches stick clients on low carbs can't you. BRB I looks lean as fvck in 2 days bruv he's best coach ever lol


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> Dropping carbs, water, steam baths, the same things people manage to do to drop 20 lbs before a fight.. lol.
> 
> It was merely pointing out just because hee has lost "xx" amount of weight in a certain time faster than me/anyone else doesn't make it fat.


Forgot how much fighters can lose in a night. Been a while since I watched ultimate fighter lol.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You don't defy science, you just never did flexible dieting correctly.
> 
> Now you can say you did, but you didn't.


You are wrong.

Ps - being like you :thumb:


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> How do you know your legs are twice the size of mine?
> 
> We are also talking about present day... I am leaner than you currently.... yet I was probably fatter than you 1 days ago....
> 
> Out of curiosity what are your 1RM?


My point of saying "my legs are twice the size of yours" was pointiing oout how *ridiculous* this is.

My deadlift and squat are poor, which if you read my log as you said you do (you clearly don't, because you'd know my 1RM's)

Deadliift is around 200kg, squat is around 170-180, bench is around 160-165.

Now if you're going to tell me a double bodyweight bench means I don't know what I'm doing; or that I don't train hard or some sh1t,. go ahead


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Forgot how much fighters can lose in a night. Been a while since I watched ultimate fighter lol.


I think Chris Duffiin and Alex Viada have done water cuts for PL meets and lost upto 30 or more, ccould be wrong but either way I remember Alex Viada AFTER a water cut regained 42 lbs in a few hours, lol.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BrahmaBull said:


> No offence but your site quotes him a fair bit also


and rightly so he is a genius and knowledgable guy, but i don't throw his name around to back up my own opinion


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> Can see why coaches stick clients on low carbs can't you. BRB I looks lean as fvck in 2 days bruv he's best coach ever lol


I never said I look lean as fvck in two days.... I have lost a lot of water weight so look a lot better!


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

FelonE said:


> Let's just all eat cake and be friends lol


mmmmmmm cake......i had cake yesterday


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> and rightly so he is a genius and knowledgable guy, but i don't throw his name around to back up my own opinion


Yet you're saying he is wrong about body composition and fat loss and it isn't possible with junk food (he says it is, but health would suffer long term).


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> My point of saying "my legs are twice the size of yours" was pointiing oout how *ridiculous* this is.
> 
> My deadlift and squat are poor, which if you read my log as you said you do (you clearly don't, because you'd know my 1RM's)
> 
> ...


But that is exactly what you were doing.... 'I was leaner than you are now so be quiet'.... Isnt it childish?

I read your log... I know you struggle with deadlift...

Deadlift - same (been training these for 4 months, after that cut id like to try and get to 220kg)

Squat - 170kg (not the best form but went parallel)

Bench - 135ish (not gone for a 1rm in ages as it fecks my shoulder up!)

Your bench is a great lift, I wont take that from you, I am not hear to slag anybody off or put anybody down which seems like your *main goal* since this thread started


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> But that is exactly what you were doing.... 'I was leaner than you are now so be quiet'.... Isnt it childish?
> 
> I read your log... I know you struggle with deadlift...
> 
> ...


I mentioned I was leaner than you are now because of the topic at hand.. that I abused IIFYM to the maximum and still got lean which people are claiming ccan't happen and you seem so against it even though you say you're not.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I mentioned I was leaner than you are now because of the topic at hand.. that I abused IIFYM to the maximum and still got lean which people are claiming ccan't happen and you seem so against it even though you say you're not.


I am not against as I said, but I am now learning more and more about my body everyday and learning what works best for me. Why can you not accept that?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> Yet you're saying he is wrong about body composition and fat loss and it isn't possible with junk food (he says it is, but health would suffer long term).


no i am saying he is knowledgable.....i am saying that a diet made up of 100% junk food even with a deficit will have you lose weight but is not effective for actual fat loss......i have seen this with my own eyes......

some fat loss maybe achieved but as i have said a million times the purpose for most who use any method is to change body composition to look better, i have seen loads of clients who have been put on high junk IIFYM diets and they have stuck to it to the letter and they have looked crap......

again as i said yesterday be flexible with 20% of your diet and it can be a good way to change body composition for those that stick to it and track foods but 20% is a huge difference than 100% junk, and just to add you can meet Macro numbers with junk food it is not impossible at all.....


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> no i am saying he is knowledgable.....i am saying that a diet made up of 100% junk food even with a deficit will have you lose weight but is not effective for actual fat loss......i have seen this with my own eyes......
> 
> some fat loss maybe achieved but as i have said a million times the purpose for most who use any method is to change body composition to look better, i have seen loads of clients who have been put on high junk IIFYM diets and they have stuck to it to the letter and they have looked crap......
> 
> again as i said yesterday be flexible with 20% of your diet and it can be a good way to change body composition for those that stick to it and track foods but 20% is a huge difference than 100% junk, and just to add you can meet Macro numbers with junk food it is not impossible at all.....


It isn't *impossible* its almost impossible. You'd have to eat a lot of whey, random fats and stuff you wouldn't be eating "meals" anymore.

You seeing loads of high junk IIFYm diets and sticking to them to the letter means nothing, even if these forum users believe you.

A diet high in junk food (I never said 100%, you did, not that it matters) You said higher in junk food than clean food; would provide the same fat loss results as any other diet if macros and calories were the same.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:
 

> So therefor when I told you I got that way eating a majority junk diet, you seemed to ignore it - and I did that cut very fast, on quite low calories.
> 
> My diary shows I over-eat I hide *nothing* - that is why I don't lose fat, you've also see my diary is majority CLEAN so your points all come crashing around you.
> 
> Also, *I can lose 10 lbs over night if I want*, what was your point here? You are out your depth.


You can lose 10lbs of excereament through your mouth in a day posting on this forum.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

banzi said:


> You can lose 10lbs of excereament through your mouth in a day posting on this forum.


LOL'D :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> no i am saying he is knowledgable.....i am saying that a diet made up of 100% junk food even with a deficit will have you lose weight but is not effective for actual fat loss......i have seen this with my own eyes......
> 
> some fat loss maybe achieved but as i have said a million times the purpose for most who use any method is to change body composition to look better, i have seen loads of clients who have been put on high junk IIFYM diets and they have stuck to it to the letter and they have looked crap......
> 
> again as i said yesterday be flexible with 20% of your diet and it can be a good way to change body composition for those that stick to it and track foods but 20% is a huge difference than 100% junk, and just to add you can meet Macro numbers with junk food it is not impossible at all.....


You are wasting your breath Paul, let him carry on dieting for months on end to lose 5lbs and LLS while we can stay in shape and diet for 6 weeks and look awesome.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> It isn't *impossible* its almost impossible. You'd have to eat a lot of whey, random fats and stuff you wouldn't be eating "meals" anymore.
> 
> You seeing loads of high junk IIFYm diets and sticking to them to the letter means nothing, even if these forum users believe you.
> 
> A diet high in junk food (I never said 100%, you did, not that it matters) You said higher in junk food than clean food; would provide the same fat loss results as any other diet if macros and calories were the same.


it does matter it matters to those that do not get the results because they have been informed wrongly just because you do not believe me is irrelevant......

you never said 100% but the first post your quoted of mine today was an answer to someone who did say 100% but you went in like a bull in a china shop as per usual, for once your name did not come up in that conversation.......


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

banzi said:


> You are wasting your breath Paul, let him carry on dieting for months on end to lose 5lbs and LLS while we can stay in shape and diet for 6 weeks and look awesome.


i now understand what everyone is talking about  but hey as long as it happens in an experiment then thats all that matters......


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> it does matter it matters to those that do not get the results because they have been informed wrongly just because you do not believe me is irrelevant......
> 
> you never said 100% but the first post your quoted of mine today was an answer to someone who did say 100% but you went in like a bull in a china shop as per usual, for once your name did not come up in that conversation.......


If they don't get the results; they didn't follow the correct calorie and macronutrient breakdowns or they were given the wrong ones, nothing more.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> If they don't get the results; they didn't follow the correct calorie and macronutrient breakdowns or they were given the wrong ones, nothing more.


but they did, thats my point as i said they lost weight but looked crap not what they wanted to achieve, they wanted to improve body composition and this did not happen.........


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If they don't get the results; they didn't follow the correct calorie and macronutrient breakdowns or they were given the wrong ones, nothing more.


How can you honestly be so pig ignorant and blind? You honestly have never lived one real day in the real fcking world where Science doesn't apply to everything...


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> but they did, thats my point as i said they lost weight but looked crap not what they wanted to achieve, they wanted to improve body composition and this did not happen.........


So as I said, their macronutrient breakdowns were not correct.

If you think the body can tell the difference between P/C/F from different sources for body composition you're insane.

But let me ask you this;

Are you telling me Alan Aragon is wrong, yes?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> So as I said, their macronutrient breakdowns were not correct.
> 
> If you think the body can tell the difference between P/C/F from different sources for body composition you're insane.
> 
> ...


wow again with the name dropping lol


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> How can you honestly be so pig ignorant and blind? You honestly have never lived one real day in the real fcking world where Science doesn't apply to everything...


The law of thermodynamics applies to all humans; cico (and proper macronutrients set) has never been proven wrong or as an inferior method, ever. Infact, this forum sso far it seems more people use IIFYM than not; and now you see more and more people switching over to it, even some top female fitness models who were dead against it.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> wow again with the name dropping lol


Answer the question then, if you can quote him on your website I can ask you that question and quote him, can't I?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> Answer the question then, if you can quote him on your website I can ask you that question and quote him, can't I?


i have answered the question more than once......i have said that i have seen in the real world clients who have been given this method with more junk than normal food and they did not look better, i fail to understand what you are not understanding in this answer, are you offended because not everyone is agreeing with you? you do seem a tad defensive on this subject.......yet you follow a IIFYM diet as it should be followed, if the results where the same if you followed it eating 100% junk why not do that? sure that would be more fun and you would be leaner and look better so win win

and the difference is i quote his articles for information you quote him to prove your opinion big difference


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> The law of thermodynamics applies to all humans; cico (and proper macronutrients set) has never been proven wrong or as an inferior method, ever. Infact, this forum sso far it seems more people use IIFYM than not; and now you see more and more people switching over to it, even some top female fitness models who were dead against it.


But I would say the majority of people who look good on this website don't use IIFYM... especially when dieting.

I think instead of pushing people towards using IIFYM you actually push people away from it...


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> i have answered the question more than once......i have said that i have seen in the real world clients who have been given this method with more junk than normal food and they did not look better, i fail to understand what you are not understanding in this answer, are you offended because not everyone is agreeing with you? you do seem a tad defensive on this subject.......yet you follow a IIFYM diet as it should be followed, if the results where the same if you followed it eating 100% junk why not do that? sure that would be more fun and you would be leaner and look better so win win


I've told you why I wouldn't follow a 100% junk food diet. YOU are the one who does not read.

I like how you avoid answering the question with a yes he is wrong or no he is not wrong though.

Your anecdotal real world clients mean nothing. Layne Norton claimed that metabolic damage stopped people from losing weight; guess what, that was anecdotal too - another thing that is impossible.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

A1243R said:


> But I would say the majority of people who look good on this website don't use IIFYM... especially when dieting.
> 
> I think instead of pushing people towards using IIFYM you actually push people away from it...


The people on this website are nobodies in comparison to the people who use IIFYM and are at the top of their game. Just like I'm a nobody to a competing world record bench presser.

I showed you several people with physiques better than everyone here who use IIFYM. I showed you endless video evidence, I've shown you endless video footage of Jay Cutler, Dorian etc all using IIFYM even during prep.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If they don't get the results; they didn't follow the correct calorie and macronutrient breakdowns or they were given the wrong ones, nothing more.


OK Mr personal trainer

We hava a guy who is at 20% BF and wants to step onstage at 5% and a woman who is 30% BF and wants to be able to fit in her size 12 dress.

Can you work out an IIFYM diet for them both please listing macros and calories.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> OK Mr personal trainer
> 
> We hava a guy who is at 20% BF and wants to step onstage at 5% and a woman who is 30% BF and wants to be able to fit in her size 12 dress.
> 
> Can you work out an IIFYM diet for them both please listing macros and calories.


Sure, eat less calories, get sufficient protein and fats, then we'll adjust as time goes on.

I can't go into a specific of something that is made up and these people have no activity level, no training setup, nothing.

People who follow a meal plan have protein,fat, carb targets too, you realise? When you stepped on stage, you ate x amount of each you just didn't track it. People who do track it; just know exactly what they're eating and can substitute food.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> You often say this but it's nonsense. Proper IIFYM, where you properly stick to individualised macro targets, is nothing like a normal western diet. 'Normal' people don't stick to a daily calorie target let alone macro targets.
> 
> Proper IIFYM takes effort and control, it is not a lazy option.


The problem is in the name- it's named in such a way that it comes across as saying that you can eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros. Yet there's posts on here arguing that's true, but then said posters eat 80% 'clean' and the rest is whatever is 'iifym' lol. Make your

Minds up. If eating whatever you want within your macro goals is fine, why eat 'clean'? Why not just fit in whatever you want. You can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you're on iifym :lol: )


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> The people on this website are nobodies in comparison to the people who use IIFYM and are at the top of their game. Just like I'm a nobody to a competing world record bench presser.
> 
> I showed you several people with physiques better than everyone here who use IIFYM. I showed you endless video evidence, I've shown you endless video footage of Jay Cutler, Dorian etc all using IIFYM even during prep.


Lol you have about a few seconds worth of questionable footage. Inb4 ronnie did iifym in his prep- that was cleared up ages ago by a member who's no longer here


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

zyphy said:


> The problem is in the name- it's named in such a way that it comes across as saying that you can eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros. Yet there's posts on here arguing that's true, but then said posters eat 80% 'clean' and the rest is whatever is 'iifym' lol. Make your
> 
> Minds up. If eating whatever you want within your macro goals is fine, why eat 'clean'? Why not just fit in whatever you want. You can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you're on iifym :lol: )


You wouldn't hit your micro nutrients on just junk..


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> You wouldn't hit your micro nutrients on just junk..


That doesn't matter according to some posters. You're still missing my point; If you care about meeting your micro's why would you then preach you can fill your macros with whatever you want as long as it's within the upper bound of your macro limit.. That's a false argument in that sense. In reality iifym is just a marketing fad, not exactly something new if Mr bannanamans theories of Dorian and jay eating junk during prep are true. Yet it's being marketed as the new dieting sensation lmao


----------



## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

FelonE said:


> Let's just all eat cake and be friends lol


Amen to that brother!


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

zyphy said:


> That doesn't matter according to some posters. You're still missing my point; If you care about meeting your micro's why would you then preach you can fill your macros with whatever you want as long as it's within the upper bound of your macro limit.. That's a false argument in that sense. In reality iifym is just a marketing fad, not exactly something new if Mr bannanamans theories of Dorian and jay eating junk during prep are true. Yet it's being marketed as the new dieting sensation lmao


Well if you've met your micros, why can't you have a little junk to make up the rest of your MACROS?


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Verno said:


> Amen to that brother!


Don't eat it all, it won't fit your macros


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

FelonE said:


> Let's just all eat cake and be friends lol


cream cakes or rice cakes?


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Well if you've met your micros, why can't you have a little junk to make up the rest of your MACROS?


Lol, again clearly missing my point. You're an ardent iifym supporter so what I'm saying will be missed through you rose tinted glasses 

I'm not against that btw


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

These threads are getting as annoying as the zyzz threads


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

zyphy said:


> Lol, again clearly missing my point. You're an ardent iifym supporter so what I'm saying will be missed through you rose tinted glasses
> 
> I'm not against that btw


I'm not missing your point at all.

Anyway, cba getting dragged into this, just constant round in circles which has been going on for months.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Big ape said:


> These threads are getting as annoying as the zyzz threads


They all turn retarded as fvck


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Big ape said:


> These threads are getting as annoying as the zyzz threads


At least it's one thread now I guess (as long as it doesn't get locked)


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Big ape said:


> These threads are getting as annoying as the zyzz threads


Will me making a Zyzz thread make you twice as annoyed?


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> I'm not missing your point at all.
> 
> Anyway, cba getting dragged into this, just constant round in circles which has been going on for months.


Lol yes you are. You've not argued against the point im making rather created ones that I never referred to in the first place therefore it's not cyclical. I'm not against 'true' iifym rather I'm against certain things being posted by posters who insist of shoving certain ideas down people's throats.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

zyphy said:


> Lol yes you are. You've not argued against the point im making rather created ones that I never referred to in the first place therefore it's not cyclical. I'm not against 'true' iifym rather I'm against certain things being posted by posters who insist of shoving certain ideas down people's throats.


No idea is beiing shoved down anyones throat, I've said plenty of times in the past if peoplees preference is one way or they adhere better to another way, np.

What I don't like is FALSE claims.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

zyphy said:


> Lol yes you are. You've not argued against the point im making rather created ones that I never referred to in the first place therefore it's not cyclical. I'm not against 'true' iifym rather I'm against certain things being posted by posters who insist of shoving certain ideas down people's throats.


Fed up of you shoving your broccoli down peoples throats m9


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

zyphy said:


> Lol yes you are. You've not argued against the point im making rather created ones that I never referred to in the first place therefore it's not cyclical. I'm not against 'true' iifym rather I'm against certain things being posted by posters who insist of shoving certain ideas down people's throats.


If you've met your micros why would it matter if you eat junk for the rest of your macros then? That's what you're arguing against.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> No idea is beiing shoved down anyones throat, I've said plenty of times in the past if peoplees preference is one way or they adhere better to another way, np.
> 
> What I don't like is FALSE claims.


lol


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

zyphy said:


> Wrong. If you've read my prev post I've said I don't have a problem with that.


Well noone is saying neglect your micros.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> If you've met your micros why would it matter if you eat junk for the rest of your macros then? That's what you're arguing against.


Wrong. If you've read my prev post I've said I don't have a problem with that.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Well noone is saying neglect your micros.


Lol I'm done here. I've made all the points I wanted to make, go back and read them to decipher what I'm trying to say.


----------



## sneeky_dave (Apr 2, 2013)

Has the thread turned into a personal shiite slinging match yet?


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

zyphy said:


> Lol I'm done here. I've made all the points I wanted to make, go back and read them to decipher what I'm trying to say.


You don't even understand the points you're making lol.

I'm out.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> You don't even understand the points you're making lol.
> 
> I'm out.


I got 100% in my history a level, I'm pretty confident I know how to argue :lol: you just can't interpret posts that don't support iifym, which is nothing abnormal. Dont worry, you're not the only one


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

sneeky_dave said:


> Has the thread turned into a personal shiite slinging match yet?


It always does when the IIFYM crew are involved... Shame really


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

A1243R said:


> It always does when the IIFYM crew are involved... Shame really


To be fair, I've posted studies to back up

My points re nutrients/macros/insulin response etc and not one person who is against has (or can) provide anything substantial to disprove what I've posted (so has @TommyBananas, multiple times in multiple threads)

These debates/threads never work because a debate is arguing a point and backing it up. The clean/bro eaters have no justification except either a) their own ancedotal evidence or b)someone else's (usually that big BB friend who says you have to avoid carbs and junk to lose fat)

If everyone had to provide evidence or acceptable reasoning for their opinion/views, there wouldn't be a debate. Flexible dieting, hundreds of times, over whelmingly blows restricted dieting out of the water.


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

zyphy said:


> *I got 100% in my history a level, I'm pretty confident I know how to argue* :lol: you just can't interpret posts that don't support iifym, which is nothing abnormal. Dont worry, you're not the only one


do history exams nowadays involve alot of arguing?


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Jalex said:


> To be fair, I've posted studies to back up
> 
> My points re nutrients/macros/insulin response etc and not one person who is against has (or can) provide anything substantial to disprove what I've posted (so has @TommyBananas, multiple times in multiple threads)
> 
> ...


On this forum who looks better in the majority of cases, IIFYM'ers or Restricted dieters?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

A1243R said:


> It always does when the bro crew are involved... Shame really


Fixed


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> do history exams nowadays involve alot of arguing?


When I did it yes


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> You wouldn't hit your micro nutrients on just junk..


Really?

What your current micronurient read out?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> To be fair, I've posted studies to back up
> 
> My points re nutrients/macros/insulin response etc and not one person who is against has (or can) provide anything substantial to disprove what I've posted (so has @TommyBananas, multiple times in multiple threads)
> 
> ...





Jalex said:


> because body-building isn't only about eating/expending calories.
> 
> .


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> If you've met your micros why would it matter if you eat junk for the rest of your macros then? That's what you're arguing against.


I have 2 thirds filled my car with diesel so now I can top it up with petrol.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Jalex said:


> To be fair, I've posted studies to back up
> 
> My points re nutrients/macros/insulin response etc and not one person who is against has (or can) provide anything substantial to disprove what I've posted (so has @TommyBananas, multiple times in multiple threads)
> 
> ...


Rein it in. You can't make such bold claims. The majority of the BB world will be the "bro" restricted diet, more so when prepping. And this will remain the case for a long time. Now I'm not disputing IIFYM works, as I use it, very well might I add (pat myself on the back), but it just doesn't blow a restricted diet out the water. Please clarify "blown out the water" in this context?


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Rein it in. You can't make such bold claims. The majority of the BB world will be the "bro" restricted diet, more so when prepping. And this will remain the case for a long time. Now I'm not disputing IIFYM works, as I use it, very well might I add (pat myself on the back), but it just doesn't blow a restricted diet out the water. Please clarify "blown out the water" in this context?


Out of curiosity, do you use when prepping?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> I have 2 thirds filled my car with diesel so now I can top it up with petrol.


One will not fit your cars macros


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> I have 2 thirds filled my car with diesel so now I can top it up with petrol.


lmao


----------



## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Lmao all these preaching IIFYM I guarantee NONE of them count micronutrients lol just macros so they can eat donuts and feel like they're still losing fat and still look shìt.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Out of curiosity, do you use when prepping?


I posted my "IIFYM" diet from 6 weeks ago. I said there isn't much in there that I wouldn't use during prep.

I use a real "IIFYM" approach, not the twisted version.

EDIT: To add, if I was told to go white fish only, then I would do so, no question. I would just be sad for a little while lol.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

C.Hill said:


> Lmao all these preaching IIFYM I guarantee NONE of them count micronutrients lol just macros so they can eat donuts and feel like they're still losing fat and still look shìt.


no-one counts micronutrients; if you eat a 70-80% whole food diet with nutritious foods (as IIFYM is, and as we all say you should) it isn't an issue.

No clean eaters here "count micronutrients"


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I posted my "IIFYM" diet from 6 weeks ago. I said there isn't much in there that I wouldn't use during prep.
> 
> I use a real "IIFYM" approach, not the twisted version.


Mc'D's in prep :lol: Only joking! Obviosuly works for you mate! :thumb:


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

C.Hill said:


> Lmao all these preaching IIFYM I guarantee NONE of them count micronutrients lol just macros so they can eat donuts and feel like they're still losing fat and still look shìt.


I preach IIFYM because it suits my lifestyle and has made my life a lot easier and more flexible while still achieving my goals and want to help people that have been stuck in the 6 meals a day / chicken rice and broccoli sh1t like i was to enjoy the process more.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

a.notherguy said:


> cream cakes or rice cakes?


Blackforest Gateau


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Mc'D's in prep :lol: Only joking! Obviosuly works for you mate! :thumb:


No, but I would be allowed "refeed" days, where a cheat meal of my choice is encouraged. Leptin levels and all that


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Big ape said:


> I preach IIFYM because it suits my lifestyle and has made my life a lot easier and more flexible while still achieving my goals and want to help people that have been stuck in the 6 meals a day / chicken rice and broccoli sh1t like i was to enjoy the process more.


to be fair i know a lot of top competitors and people in bodybuilding and very very few eat the 6 meals a day brice, chicken and broccoli these days........i fukcing hate broccoli


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dark sim said:


> No, but I would be allowed "refeed" days, where a cheat meal of my choice is encouraged. Leptin levels and all that


you would love how Skip Hill coaches his clients then


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> you would love how Skip Hill coaches his clients then


Forgot all about skiploading diet


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dark sim said:


> Forgot all about skiploading diet


its epic......in 2012 once a week pushing 12hrs on a sunday to skip load, not junk as such as he states you need to make it low fat for a few reasons, but it does get you through the week knowing whats to come, although once you get past 4-6hrs it can be torture on the digestion


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair i know a lot of top competitors and people in bodybuilding and very very few eat the 6 meals a day brice, chicken and broccoli these days........i fukcing hate broccoli


That's just what the IIFYM crew think Clean eating consists of... anyway I am out


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> , are you offended because not everyone is agreeing with you?


Nail on the head.

When he stamps his feet you're supposed to change your point of view and agree with him.... come on Paul play the game mate.


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

banzi said:


> I have 2 thirds filled my car with diesel so now I can top it up with petrol.


Wow oh dear


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

A1243R said:


> That's just what the IIFYM crew think Clean eating consists of... anyway I am out


Was an example .. a bland diet with no flexibility and frequent meals.. which most quote on quote "clean eaters" adhere to.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> its epic......in 2012 once a week pushing 12hrs on a sunday to skip load, not junk as such as he states you need to make it low fat for a few reasons, but it does get you through the week knowing whats to come, although once you get past 4-6hrs it can be torture on the digestion


Did you ever use it again or wasn't for you?


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

A1243R said:


> anyway I am out


You said that last night.... Coward :lol:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

If someone looks great because of the dieting style they advocate I'll listen to them.

Before people say you don't have to look a certain way to argue your point, it definitely adds weight to the argument.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

spudsy said:


> You said that last night.... Coward :lol:


I Know :lol:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> If someone looks great because of the dieting style they advocate I'll listen to them.
> 
> Before people say you don't have to look a certain way to argue your point, it definitely adds weight to the argument.


Amen to that!


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

God knows how Lyle gets clients then, must be his charming personality.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Wow oh dear


did you miss my request for your current micronutrient daily breakdown?

You did mention as long as your micros where taken care of you could eat anything else.

So whats your current micro requirements?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> God knows how Lyle gets clients then, must be his charming personality.


Maybe people are drawn to a diet where you can eat what you like, a bit like not being on a diet.

He charges people for that info as well

None of clients are able to replicate his results though, amazing really.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> Maybe people are drawn to a diet where you can eat what you like, a bit like not being on a diet.
> 
> He charges people for that info as well
> 
> None of clients are able to replicate his results though, amazing really.


Don't know anyone who would want to replicate Lyle's results buddy


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> Don't know anyone who would want to replicate Lyle's results buddy


Mixing him up with Layne, all these snake oil salesmen sound the same


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

Can we just have a group hug and all be mates


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> no-one counts micronutrients; *if you eat a 70-80% whole food diet with nutritious foods (as IIFYM is, and as we all say you should) it isn't an issue.*
> 
> No clean eaters here "count micronutrients"


No link to back that up, you surprise me.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Sure, eat less calories, get sufficient protein and fats, then we'll adjust as time goes on.
> 
> I can't go into a specific of something that is made up and these people have no activity level, no training setup, nothing.
> 
> People who follow a meal plan have protein,fat, carb targets too, you realise? When you stepped on stage, you ate x amount of each you just didn't track it. People who do track it; just know exactly what they're eating and can substitute food.


so you would give them both the same diet?

And you charge people for this advice?


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

FelonE said:


> Blackforest Gateau


sounds good. it has cherries on it so will be healthy and part of the 5 a day


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

zyphy said:


> When I did it yes


no it didnt


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> no it didnt


lol ok m8


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

zyphy said:


> The problem is in the name- it's named in such a way that it comes across as saying that you can eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros. Yet there's posts on here arguing that's true, but then said posters eat 80% 'clean' and the rest is whatever is 'iifym' lol. Make your
> 
> Minds up. If eating whatever you want within your macro goals is fine, why eat 'clean'? Why not just fit in whatever you want. You can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you're on iifym )


Not entirely sure why you quoted me to post that, but FWIW I would normally use the term flexible dieting for the way I eat, primarily for the reason you mentioned.

As was covered earlier in this thread, the abbreviation IIFYM arrose on an Internet forum for brevity, it was never intended as a diet philosophy. Yes some people now believe it to mean you can eat literally anything that hits an apparently arbitrary set of macro targets but I am not one of them.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Not entirely sure why you quoted me to post that, but FWIW I would normally use the term flexible dieting for the way I eat, primarily for the reason you mentioned.
> 
> As was covered earlier in this thread, the abbreviation IIFYM arrose on an Internet forum for brevity, it was never intended as a diet philosophy. Yes some people now believe it to mean you can eat literally anything that hits an apparently arbitrary set of macro targets but I am not one of them.


I used your post as an example to show the flaws in the name itself.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dark sim said:


> Did you ever use it again or wasn't for you?


yes i worked with Skip from May 2010 to November 2012, had a great year in 2012 i dieted for 47 weeks won my qualifier, 4th in Britain, 6th in the Worlds and 9th at the Universe he also took me to my heaviest off season weight of 240lbs at around 15%......i loved working with him.......


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> so you would give them both the same diet?
> 
> And you charge people for this advice?


LOL


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> yes i worked with Skip from May 2010 to November 2012, had a great year in 2012 *i dieted for 47 weeks* won my qualifier, 4th in Britain, 6th in the Worlds and 9th at the Universe he also took me to my heaviest off season weight of 240lbs at around 15%......i loved working with him.......


I take it you are not referring to below maintenance dieting for that long?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

The diet fluctuated in calories after the Worlds for a short time to the universe before bringing it back down but I was still in prep

Mode for that time


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Rein it in. You can't make such bold claims. The majority of the BB world will be the "bro" restricted diet, more so when prepping. And this will remain the case for a long time. Now I'm not disputing IIFYM works, as I use it, very well might I add (pat myself on the back), but it just doesn't blow a restricted diet out the water. Please clarify "blown out the water" in this context?


Maybe not perfect wording, but I meant in relevance to the actual evidence presented (if even any exists) for restricted compres to flexible.

ive never ever been given any real proof that a bro diet will give any better results than a flexible diet (being the same calories/micronutrients etc, before that argument is raised). Where the contrary is bursting with new evidence/studies/ancedotal by the day.

As as you point out, the only evidence is from the majority (and mostly older school) bodybuilders who advocat it, because they have used it so long and quite rightly had good results or those that have been brainwashed into thinking it (by this I mean those that don't actually research anything just believe whoever looks best).

its got to he point where it's not debating the content, but rather looking to pick out certain phrases/words in my posts to "trip

me up" or discredit the content of my post.

oh and @banzi, re you quoting my post then my older post about bodybuilding not being just about calories in/out.

quite dissapointed you did that, not sure where I said it is only calories in/out for the WHOLE aspect of bodybuilding. My post obviously refets to conditions in which every other determining factor is the same/equal/optimal except the content of

my post i.e diet (this is what I was referring to above, trying to pick stuff up to discredit what I say).

Most of you know my views by now and I won't be debating with the same people the same posts every few days. I will give my advice to anyone needing/newbies and they can take what they will.

i will practise what I preach throughout my journal and provided nothing unforeseen changes circumstances, will see excellent progress in the months to come.

now, I'm heading up the Eiffel tower once I've finished this beer. G'night  .


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Maybe not perfect wording, but I meant in relevance to the actual evidence presented (if even any exists) for restricted compres to flexible.
> 
> ive never ever been given any real proof that a bro diet will give any better results than a flexible diet (being the same calories/micronutrients etc, before that argument is raised). Where the contrary is bursting with new evidence/studies/ancedotal by the day.
> 
> ...


Lol, you have only been training 2 years FFS.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

banzi said:


> Lol, you have only been training 2 years FFS.


Don't worry about that, just count your micros.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

There are multiple ways to set up a nutritional plan to achieve good results. Not all plans work well for all people, and not just for physiological reasons but also psychological ones - some people freak without a strict structure, whilst some people hate being tied to a way of looking at food that is highly quantitative and organized.

Two things that all successful people do though are 1) they adjust food appropriately as their body needs, and 2) that they do so consistently for a long period of time. IMO those things are more important than the way the look at the whole thing - some people need a formula, some people can do it instinctively. You just have to do what works for you most easily and can keep you focused and happy doing it for a long time. Bodybuilding requires that degree of patience so needs a method that is tolerable to the individual.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

dtlv said:


> There are multiple ways to set up a nutritional plan to achieve good results. Not all plans work well for all people, and not just for physiological reasons but also psychological ones - some people freak without a strict structure, whilst some people hate being tied to a way of looking at food that is highly quantitative and organized.
> 
> Two things that all successful people do though are 1) they adjust food appropriately as their body needs, and 2) that they do so consistently for a long period of time. IMO those things are more important than the way the look at the whole thing - some people need a formula, some people can do it instinctively. You just have to do what works for you most easily and can keep you focused and happy doing it for a long time. Bodybuilding requires that degree of patience so needs a method that is tolerable to the individual.


Best post in the whole thread


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## Dzezy (Jun 27, 2015)

IIFYM all the way


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I wonder how many people who have voted IIFYM actual track and consistently hit their macros


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> I wonder how many people who have voted IIFYM actual track and consistently hit their macros


I do


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