# how many sets?



## Ian ST (Mar 14, 2010)

I was watching some pro-bodbuilders on youtube recently (mainly Branch Warren), and notice once he hits his set with the max weight, he then continues on to another set then by gradually 'decreasing' weight and still repping to failure.

I generally do 4 sets per bodypart. The first set or two to warm up, then increasing weight on to the next 2 sets to complete failure, then leave it at that.

Is there any benefit, in continuing on to a 5th and 6th set for eg, and coming down on the weight in these two further sets?

it obviously benefits Branch Warren,  but what about everyday bodybuilders?


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

At the min im doing lighter weights so im doing around 12-15 sets per big muscle parts


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Branch is an elite athlete so can use these advanced methods without overtraining plus this is what he has found works for him, you need to workout what is good for you.

If the routine you are doing now is working then I would stick with it there is no need to change


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## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

3 to 4 sets bud. Some say there is no need for 4 sets but I know many pro's do 4 sets but only when prepping for a comp.


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## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

London1976 said:


> At the min im doing lighter weights so im doing around 12-15 sets per big muscle parts


12-15sets? :der:


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

If you want to see a pro advocate a routine for mere mortals like us look at Dorian Yates blood and guts trainer.

Most exercises are one or two warm up sets and then one all out set to failure.

Like the man says if you can do 5-6 sets you are not stressing yourself enough and pacing yourself which is not much help.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

guys we are not Pro's so training like them is stupid to be fair.....there lifestyle in the most is very different......

there is no one way that fits all....on my 4th blast week i do 36 working sets on the days i train some would say that is madness yet this works for me and works well......

start out on 2 working sets per exercise 10-12 reps if this does not produce results then increase.....


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

4 working sets ?? No point going to the gym for that. Even when I do heavy I always do 12 sets. Mattious you have to do what works for you and doing 4 sets heavy ain't enough for me.I train very hard son. Try doing 20 reps for compounds and isolations, so for me I'm doing 3x20 for each exercise.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Plus we all have different goals. Mine are to stay lean and trim all year round so this training I'm doing is working great. Loads of sets and reps for me.


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## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

London1976 said:


> Plus we all have different goals. Mine are to stay lean and trim all year round so this training I'm doing is working great. Loads of sets and reps for me.


You mean 12-15sets in total? I thought you meant for one exercise, lol


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

Simple fact is if you cant take a muscle to complete failure in one to two working sets you're just not working hard enough. There shouldn't be anything left in the tank after that.


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## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

mightymariner said:


> Simple fact is if you cant take a muscle to complete failure in one to two working sets you're just not working hard enough. There shouldn't be anything left in the tank after that.


Yeah I do a warm up set for that body part then 3sets of 6-8reps which is failure. I couldn't manage a 4th or 5th set with that weight anyway


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

I used to train with 5-6 sets an exercise until I read Brawn, then I saw seminar with Dorian Yates. He was training the same way as Brawn and HIT from Mike Mentzer. Made more progress in 6 months training this way than in 2 years doing the 5-6 sets.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

mightymariner said:


> Simple fact is if you cant take a muscle to complete failure in one to two working sets you're just not working hard enough. There shouldn't be anything left in the tank after that.


I hear that. I think something like leg press is a prime example of this. If your not struggling to pick yourself up + slightly nauseous, you haven't pushed yourself hard enough. Also why a training partner is good, forces you to do those extra reps. Those final heavy sets, should be killer.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

nah thats where a planned out training cycle is all you need splint... :wink:

maybe i`m just lucky...

i use weights ive predetermined and if all factors are in place i should and generally do get the increment.

its how i tell if i`m doing it all right.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

London1976 said:


> 4 working sets ?? No point going to the gym for that. Even when I do heavy I always do 12 sets. Mattious you have to do what works for you and doing 4 sets heavy ain't enough for me.I train very hard son. Try doing 20 reps for compounds and isolations, so for me I'm doing 3x20 for each exercise.


how are you going heavy if your doing 20 reps for every set? if it works it works but i cannot see how you are going heavy on all these sets and i don't see the need but hey....


mightymariner said:


> Simple fact is if you cant take a muscle to complete failure in one to two working sets you're just not working hard enough. There shouldn't be anything left in the tank after that.


well thats me not working hard enough then.....Damn !!!


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

mightymariner said:


> Simple fact is if you cant take a muscle to complete failure in one to two working sets you're just not working hard enough. There shouldn't be anything left in the tank after that.


I quite like that, at the moment this is what I'm doing and out of the gym within 35-40min if not doing cardio


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## Big_Idiot1466867997 (Aug 27, 2010)

I see most of you are all FOR training to failure, and forced reps etc.

However i've seen many sources which indicate you dont need to train to failure for optimal muscle stimulation.

BTW...i train to failure  just thought i'd point it out!


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

PScarb said:


> well thats me not working hard enough then.....Damn !!!


I doubt that looking at your avatar, lol


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Pscarb im not lifting heavy for 20 reps, im currently doing lighter weights than usuall for 15-20 reps.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> nah thats where a planned out training cycle is all you need splint... :wink:
> 
> maybe i`m just lucky...
> 
> ...


Thought I was the scientific one and you were the brawler?

Your kicking me to the curb eep:


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

London1976 said:


> Pscarb im not lifting heavy for 20 reps, im currently doing lighter weights than usuall for 15-20 reps.


How do you go heavy for 12 sets????

How many reps are you doing for those twelve sets say for bench press and wot do you call heavy????


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

mightymariner said:


> I doubt that looking at your avatar, lol


 


London1976 said:


> Pscarb im not lifting heavy for 20 reps, im currently doing lighter weights than usuall for 15-20 reps.


can i ask why?

the thing is light weights high reps do not give any more tone/leaness than lifting heavy for 10-12 reps but the results lifting heavier for 10-12 far out way the results of lighter more volume.....do not get me wrong if you are lifting heavy for 20 reps(weight is relative to volume) that is different than what you are doing.......

i have done 20 rep sets but my weight did not lower more than 10-15% of what i was doing with 10-12 reps.....the point to this is intensity.....

we all train differently but if the results are being acheived then no one can say there is a better way....in my experince lifting heavy for 10-12 reps works so will stick with it for now....


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

if you can gain on 2 working sets, you could try 3, then 4 etc.

problem is everyone as a a rule(myself included) reads what someone on gear does and thinkin more is better and opt for multiple exercises per body part with multiple sets to failure.

most routines are based on gear use that you read about.

well splint if adding a planned amount of weight makes me a scientist, give me a white coat and call me einstien 

the clever bit is knowing when to add weight and by how much and having the balls to drop a working set and when to take an extra rest day :wink:

that comes from experience not a spread sheet heh heh!

n btw how the fcuk did you get so much rep?

bet it was all from london fans lol


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

@ franki im not lifting heavy at the moment. If I go heavy I would do say 90kg for 8 reps but now it's like 40-50kg for 20 reps.

@ pscarb. I'm just experimenting in my training. I have been doing heavy for over 4 years. Reason I'm going lighter is because im concentrating alot more on my form. Each rep is slow with full rom. Plus my goals is alot different to most people on here. I'm going for the small and toned look( the people on the aftershave adverts) for example: not alot of MUSCLE MASS.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

like you my goals are more modest than most london.

maybe you should try n set a date youre gonna aim for...

seems to me youve been training a while and should pretty much be where you need to be...


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Yea you could say that cal. I'm pretty much where I wanna be when it comes to muscle, health and fitness. All that's left is getting my abs out more and that's job done cal. I'm more into looking healthy and keeping fit.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> if you can gain on 2 working sets, you could try 3, then 4 etc.
> 
> most routines are based on gear use that you read about.
> 
> ...


.

If I could rep you cal I would mate especially on the last paragraphs. Classic lol


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Also I will not gain anymore muscle mass because i will not put on anymore weight. I'm happy i'm 76kg but would ideally like to be 70kg.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

then set a date at which you think is doable to be 70kg.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I'd say end of February cal. Early march. Nice n steady pace. So that's 14lbs to lose, or a stone and a half, if my abs still don't show then i have lipsosuction pmsl.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

London1976 said:


> @ franki im not lifting heavy at the moment. If I go heavy I would do say 90kg for 8 reps but now it's like 40-50kg for 20 reps.
> 
> @ pscarb. I'm just experimenting in my training. I have been doing heavy for over 4 years. Reason I'm going lighter is because im concentrating alot more on my form. Each rep is slow with full rom. Plus my goals is alot different to most people on here. I'm going for the small and toned look( the people on the aftershave adverts) for example: not alot of MUSCLE MASS.


don't get me wrong i am not saying you are wrong....but low weight and high volume does not necesserilly mean toned.....diet dictates your weight increase.....any dieting bodybuilder will tell you that.....

if you are maintaining a weight now eating what your eating then try and raise the weight on the same rep range i think you will be pleased with the results....


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I will add more weight and maybe drop to 3x12/15 reps. Will this be better


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> well splint if adding a planned amount of weight makes me a scientist, give me a white coat and call me einstien
> 
> the clever bit is knowing when to add weight and by how much and having the balls to drop a working set and when to take an extra rest day :wink:
> 
> ...


I do the whole systemic progression thing.

Never really thought about dropping a working set, the thought never crosses my mind!

I happen to recover a decent rate (no doubt will get worse with age), so mon/wed/fri training is perfect for me! However, this is subject to change depending on if im going out to an event etc..

Rep's coming from all the ladies on the board... Beastiality is bliss.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

so basically add some weight to the bar lol


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> so basically add some weight to the bar lol


Arghhhh so complicated!!!!!!

*Loads up excel to find the solution*

:smokin:


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

lol nah that was too london..


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

If im already managing 20 reps with the weight that im doing how can i add more weight and still do 20 ??

Im not doing light weights but im doing LIGHTER than what i normally do, Im doing around 45-50kg for 20 reps. So my chest routine would be like this :

INCLINE PRESS @ 50KG @ 3X20

FLAT @ 50KG @ 3X20

DECLINE @ 50KG @ 3X20

CABLE FLIES @ 3X20

So this alone is 240 reps so adding more weight will mean decreasing the reps to maybe 12/15


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

do you mean "ladies" like miss_fabuloso...ahem cough man!

just my opinion in case anyone wastes too much time answering q`s..

splint have you ever tried adding 0.5kg plates each week?

you should try it bud.


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

INCLINE PRESS @ 50KG @ 3X20

FLAT @ 50KG @ 3X20

DECLINE @ 50KG @ 3X20

CABLE FLIES @ 3X20


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> do you mean "ladies" like miss_fabuloso...ahem cough man!
> 
> just my opinion in case anyone wastes too much time answering q`s..
> 
> ...


I usually put 1.25kg or 2.5kg. 0.5's can be hard to find. One gym has about 200 of them from 0.25 - 5kg, but they fit on this special rubberised bar (useless for us).

Depends which gym im training in as well.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

loop weights onto bar with piece of string.

seriously splint the difference between adding 2x1.25kg and regular 2x0.5kg is a different world.

its the single most helpful thing ive done.


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

I bought small plates off internet. They are called platemates and are magnetic!


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

I've been incrementing my partial deads by 5kg per week, whilst keeping the same amount of reps. Whilst using an overhand grip too (for 5 years i've used reverse grips and done normal or sldl). With good effect I might add.

I think where it gets to the point where im struggling to pass a PB lets say, the inclusion of 0.5kg's like you say will make all that difference. When I get to that point I will certainly look into this.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

a pb doesnt have to be for a single splint.

when i say pb i mean a pb for 3 working sets.

surely that must be surpassed more than 1x a year?

10lb jumps are massive increments and it sounds to me like youre cycling the intensity lol

usually 5kg incrments would mean underlifting.

im guessing you havent been training the lift very long?

youre squats arent getting the same increments are they?

if you could pick an exercise youre almost flat out on you could experiment with that particular lift..

i`d like some of those Mighty M


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

You can get them from here

Telephone: +44 (0)844 586 4066

è Email: [email protected]

è Fax: +44 (0)1376 528730

è A1 Sports Ltd, 2 Anglia Way, Braintree, Essex, CM7 3RG, UK


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Yes franki that's what I'm currently doing, give it a go, but I don't reckon you could handle my kind of training. Your just a brute with no stamina


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

franki3 said:


> INCLINE PRESS @ 50KG @ 3X20
> 
> FLAT @ 50KG @ 3X20
> 
> ...





London1976 said:


> Yes franki that's what I'm currently doing, give it a go, but I don't reckon you could handle my kind of training. Your just a brute with no stamina


Not having a go just don't get it!!!!

Flat [email protected] 90kg

1x10 100kg

1x8. 110kg then straight to 80kg to failure

Incline bench as above

Decline bench as above

Then 4 sets of flys decline on cable

Then 4 sets of pullovers

Then 4 sets of dips

I have no more than a minute rest in-between all sets

Try this then tell me about stamina...........


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Each to their own son. When I go heavy I do the same sets and reps as you. But I class myself as an athlete lol so I'm into endurance and stamina. Look at all my previous post on my log franki and you'll see my other lifts. But even u know what I'm capable of. Also there are plenty of different ways to train, it's not always about going in and lifting heavy.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> a pb doesnt have to be for a single splint.
> 
> when i say pb i mean a pb for 3 working sets.
> 
> ...


Im new to partials deads granted, just yesterday I did 5x5 on 120kg, and I only really started to struggle in the last couple of sets (last set had to drop set it). (Im sticking to one weight across 5 sets, each week increasing though). I reckon I could hack 5x5 on 130kg, potentially 140kg too.

So like you say, perhaps I am under lifting. But im trying to keep my form perfect, so an increase each week to see if I can hack it with good execution.

With regards to squats, I can do 140kg easy for 8-10 reps. I attempted 160kg (guy I was sharing was a powerlifter, and only doing 3 reps or so... where as I was aiming for 8-12). and had to put the bar back. So will work my way up that extra 20kg perhaps 2.5kg increments a week (working with what I got in whichever gym).

Feedback appreciated.


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

But 2 months ago you were saying that you were trying to get bigger hence the bullets I suppose,then you put on the weight which was great ,now your trying to drop weight again.

If your body is used to lifting heavy weight but now your lifting alot lighter surely it's like weighted cardio session which is fine for going for that lean look,but to me looking at you you have very little bodyfat but no great muscle definition.

So you have lost the fat so why don't you now get some muscle definition if your going for that brad Pitt look???

This is not a have a go at London time lol

With more definition you will look very lean anyway which is wot you want right!!!!


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Franki, tbh the most important thing to me is staying lean and slim 365 days a year. I really love having 14.5 inch arms and a 30 inch waist. I do not want to gain mass hence why I don't eat like a bodybuilder.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

London1976 said:


> Each to their own son. When I go heavy I do the same sets and reps as you. But I class myself as an athlete lol so I'm into endurance and stamina. Look at all my previous post on my log franki and you'll see my other lifts. But even u know what I'm capable of. Also there are plenty of different ways to train, it's not always about going in and lifting heavy.


London what sport do you compete in? i ask because you class yourself as an athlete so your training would make sense if it was for a particular sport...


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I don't play any mate, i just say im an athlete because im more into the fitness and the healthy side.


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