# Tried Everything & Seriously Stuck, Please Help?



## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

I'll try and sum this up as much as possible. I've been eating clean for about a year and a half trying every variety of diet to try and find what suits me. I've had a 12 point BF test 5 times in this time period and my BF has reduced from 23% to just under 19% however for the last year I've been what I'd describe as 'stuck'.

I've tried a strict comp diet for 12 weeks, I've tried lowering and increasing my carbs, carb cycling, Paleo, Keto. You can see where I'm going with this, I've varied my re-feeds trying different types of food and not cheating at all. I've been making a point to try a certain diet for 6-8 weeks it's not been a case of 'that's not working I'll try that, then that, then that.'

I've tried different forms of cardio at different times of day and now I do none at all, there's been no difference.

I have IBS so I avoid everything that upsets my stomach I'm also following Charles Poliquin's HCL protocol to improve digestion as my HCL levels were very low.

I supplement with flaxseed and get plenty of Omega 3 I also drink out of a BPA free bottle and don't heat things in plastic.

I'm a 23yr old female my BF is around 18%-19% I'm on a high protein, high fat, low carb diet with a re-feed meal at the weekend, reason for this is I was advised I'm completely carb intolerant.

Please believe when I say I've spoken to a two people both with very good nutritional knowledge one Poliquin qualified they've worked with me for some time and are both baffled, they don't know why my body isn't responding. We've tried everything and they've both put their hands up and said, we don't understand why your body isn't doing what it's supposed to.

What could possibly cause me to be physically unable to shift anymore body fat?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Postin up your diet would help alot mate


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Diet including macros and total cals pls.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

SpotMe? said:


> I'll try and sum this up as much as possible. I've been eating clean for about a year and a half trying every variety of diet to try and find what suits me. I've had a 12 point BF test 5 times in this time period and my BF has reduced from 23% to just under 19% however for the last year I've been what I'd describe as 'stuck'.
> 
> I've tried a strict comp diet for 12 weeks, I've tried lowering and increasing my carbs, carb cycling, Paleo, Keto. You can see where I'm going with this, I've varied my re-feeds trying different types of food and not cheating at all. I've been making a point to try a certain diet for 6-8 weeks it's not been a case of 'that's not working I'll try that, then that, then that.'
> 
> ...


I very much doubt you're physically unable mate, diet, training etc post it up


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't have a 'set diet' I vary my meats day by day tend to have beef on leg days.

I don't weigh anything as I was told it's not necessary.

I'll try and give you an idea of a typical day but it's not going to be 100% accurate if I'm honest I don't think diet is the issue.

Meal 1 - Either a turkey breast steak/ chicken breast steak/ beef sizzle steak

Handful of nuts - Almonds & pistacio kernels

Teaspoon of milled flaxseed

750mg HCL

Vitamin B Complex

Meal 2 Either a turkey breast steak/ chicken breast steak/ beef sizzle steak

Handful of nuts - Almonds & pistacio kernels

Teaspoon of milled flaxseed

Meal 3 Either a turkey breast steak/ chicken breast steak/ beef sizzle steak

Handful of nuts - Almonds & pistacio kernels

Teaspoon of milled flaxseed

Meal 4 Either a turkey breast steak/ chicken breast steak/ beef sizzle steak

Handful of nuts - Almonds & pistacio kernels

Teaspoon of milled flaxseed

Meal 5 Post Workout - Egg White shake - 4 egg whites 1 tsp Honey

Meal 6 Varies - Any kind of meat with vegetables

The variation to this can include more vegetables I will add in leafy salad and green vegetables with each meal, I try cycle with vegetables.

On a refeed day I won't have any fats just high protein and veg up until my cheat meal.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

The third sentence baffles me.

Have you been to see your GP recently regarding your IBS?


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

beef on leg days? :confused1:


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

you are going to be a hard nut to crack.

you are adamant that diet and cardio are not the issue. When everyone will advise you to adjust one or the other and both.

I'm pretty sure that if you took a pen and paper and noted everything that passed your lips (food and drink, recreational hobbies can be excluded) no matter how small or insignificant seeming, you would work it all out on your own


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## cris (Apr 11, 2012)

portion sizes and what type of vegetables?

and what do you drink?


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## Tentking (Mar 6, 2013)

Work harder work faster is the simple answer! If your in deficit you will lose weight (fat) in the end


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

SpotMe? said:


> I'll try and sum this up as much as possible. I've been eating clean for about a year and a half trying every variety of diet to try and find what suits me. I've had a 12 point BF test 5 times in this time period and my BF has reduced from 23% to just under 19% however for the last year I've been what I'd describe as 'stuck'.
> 
> I've tried a strict comp diet for 12 weeks, I've tried lowering and increasing my carbs, carb cycling, Paleo, Keto. You can see where I'm going with this, I've varied my re-feeds trying different types of food and not cheating at all. I've been making a point to try a certain diet for 6-8 weeks it's not been a case of 'that's not working I'll try that, then that, then that.'
> 
> ...


Thats low for a female


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## RocoElBurn (May 31, 2010)

That could be many kcals, but without weighing everything you wouldn't know. Start weighing your food finding out the macros and kcals.


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

eat less :confused1: :whistling:


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Considering your age and gender its unlikely you will get much leaner, unless you really go for it and reduce kcals even further but that could make you unhealthy and effect your hormones and menstrual cycle..

chances are you already look very lean


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## Prospect (Feb 5, 2013)

Post up pics?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Will you admit thast your methods have failed? If so, then why not try new methods instead of regurgutating sh1te like this "I don't think diet is the issue".

Please tell me, if it isn't food/diet that is making you unable to shift anymore body fat, what is it ??

Anybody seen that programme "Secret Eaters", they all weight 25st but in their minds, only eat 1k cals a day


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Yea my sister, who must weigh 100kg & is full of blubber, 'doesn't eat that much'!

Also mocks me for 'taking all those vitamins'... (Vit D3/C & some Omega 3s)


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Think it may have been a mistake to post this on here considering the responses. I have gone through the process of weighing everything I was given a diet by a bloke that preps girls who actually win aka knows his sh!te that didn't work.

I've been set a diets by three diet Poliquin trained guys (obviously a completely different approach) they also haven't worked.

I refuse to believe that 'add more cardio' is always the answer, I'm sorry if you disagree but I done a lot of cardio before and it makes no difference and my cortisol went throguh the roof because I hate it.

I tried many different variations of diets the only thing I ever drink is minimum 2 litres a day and green tea.

I don't binge, I don't cheat and I'm dedicated.

It's very hard for me to put across to you how much effort I've put into trying every diet that why I'm not sure if it's what food I'm putting in my mouth but what happens to it once it's inside of me.

I don't slack I train HARD I sweat and I eat when I'm hungry but I eat clean so I don't think counting calories is a necessity I just eat when I'm hungry but then again 6-7 meals a day sorts me out just fine.

I know my approach goes against what most people think is the 'right way' I agree weighing everything and counting all your calories it works for some but it's not the 'only way' and it didn't work for me.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

OK, if you find another way to lose weight apart from diet and cardio (not including drugs), then you will be a multi-billionaire. Good luck in your quest.

I would predict that there are probably tens of thousands of employes of medical companies working now to look for one of two holy grails of medicine (first is cure for cancer, second is the way to lose weight without diet/cardio).

Good luck, you will need it!!

When you come back in a years time having failed, I'll reiterate what is needed = Diet/Cardio.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

So where do you think the issue is then?

According to you it's not diet, or training. What other factor is there to consider?

That's why I asked if you'd been to see your GP recently. 

Post up your training, I'm sure that someone can point you in the right direction.


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## MunchieBites (Jan 14, 2013)

SpotMe? said:


> Think it may have been a mistake to post this on here considering the responses. I have gone through the process of weighing everything I was given a diet by a bloke that preps girls who actually win aka knows his sh!te that didn't work.
> 
> I've been set a diets by three diet Poliquin trained guys (obviously a completely different approach) they also haven't worked.
> 
> ...


if you dont count your cals how do you know you are getting enough or too much? therefore how do you know you are in a calorie deficit?

no offense mate but i get the responses on here- you cant just flippantly say you are baffling to modern day science and say it has nothing to do with your diet.

If you ask for help you cant then act like a child and not like the answers. you come across as a bit of a spoilt brat to be honest.


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## Vivid (May 14, 2009)

Don't see why you would go through all these variations of diets and not complete the basics, a cal count which is the most important aspect of any diet. I think you hold too much emphasis on the diet and not the cals, the only real benefit of certain diets over others is the ability to produce a better body composition, any diet below maintenance will produce weight loss, any diet above maintenance will produce weight gain... Count your cals then update us.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

SpotMe? said:


> I'm sorry if you disagree but I done a lot of cardio before and it makes no difference.
> 
> I eat clean so I don't think counting calories is a necessity I just eat when I'm hungry but then again 6-7 meals a day sorts me out just fine.
> 
> I agree weighing everything and counting all your calories it works for some but it's not the 'only way' and it didn't work for me.


The above three quotes are golden!!


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## Mez (Jul 31, 2012)

How can you expect to lose weight if you don't know how many calories your consuming ?


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Wow, wasn't expecting this reaction.

I was kindly trying to point out that I have been to many highly qualified people for different diets which they have provided me and haven't worked without having to be blunt and say I don't need your diet advice hence why I'm not giving you more detail as that's not what I'm asking.

Latblaster thank you for not being so narrow minded I'll head to my GP for more answers just thought there may by chance be someone on here that experienced something similar.

You're extremely naive if you honestly believe that diet and cardio alone gets everyone on this earth lean. I'm worried there's a medical issue here and was hoping somebody here would be kind enough to give some suggestions rather than the pretty standard,

'What's ya diet like mate'

Sorry for thinking I was going to get more than such a narrow minded response.

Oh and when I do get the answers to achieve my own personal goals the only place I'll be going is on that stage.


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## Tentking (Mar 6, 2013)

Your responses were a little off tbh, but it sounds like a thyroid problem to me. That being said everyone trying to lose weight needs to count cals/macros, simple fact I'm afraid, what response did you expect?

Be interested in what your GP says, good luck


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Have a gander at this:

http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=26&m=347631

@SpotMe?


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

The reason why I don't bother counting calories if you see it from my point of view my other half is a PT and he sees exactly what I eat everyday and knows what I'm struggling with he's always looking over my diet and I run things by him first, he said I wasn't eating enough quite a while ago so I increased my protein and carbs (vegetables) I put my diet in myfitness pal a few months ago just out of curiousity to check I was still eating enough and it was 2000cals the variants since then haven't changed much.


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

Your post shows total ignorance to how the body works "i'm on a diet but don't count calories, I eat when I feel hungry but I eat clean"

Boom theres your problem, I could shred up on mars bars while you eat all the chicken and veg you want.

Calories in vs calories out that's it. There is nothing more to bodybuilding gaining weight or losing it and if you don't get this nothing else will work properly for you.

COUNT CALORIES!!!

Know your macro's, anyone who doesn't and follows some daft clean eating plan, your wasting your time.


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## Kev1980 (Jan 18, 2011)

My advice would be when asking for help take it all onboard, yes there maybe a lot of repeated answers but people are only trying to help you.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here who will not bother replying if you appear to come a cross rude.


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

SpotMe? said:


> The reason why I don't bother counting calories if you see it from my point of view my other half is a PT and he sees exactly what I eat everyday and knows what I'm struggling with he's always looking over my diet and I run things by him first, he said I wasn't eating enough quite a while ago so I increased my protein and carbs (vegetables) I put my diet in myfitness pal a few months ago just out of curiousity to check I was still eating enough and it was 2000cals the variants since then haven't changed much.


Count calories using myfitnesspal daily, do it honestly and you'll lose weight it's that simple.

Up cardio as others have said, work faster there's no other natural way to do it.


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## mattW (Jan 12, 2009)

also something to consider is are you on the pill? or any other type of contraceptive? many women struggle to lose weight or gain whilst on the pill. just another factor to think about. best of luck.


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't mean to come across as rude but it's difficult to know how to react to people when they are so harsh to you for no good reason.

It's a sensitive issue that I'm just trying to resolve please believe me when I say that the diet is in hand with capable people who have helped me so very very much but I'm looking for a different prospective.

I am full heartedly with Charles Poliquin and his opinion of cardio hence why I am not open to the idea of 'increase your cardio' as a solution HIIT triggers extremely painful cramps due to my IBS which is another reason why.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

One last try...I hope you read the link I put up for the IBS forum. In it someone mentions about having had their Gall Bladder removed as lack of bile will contribute to incorrect digestion.

Even if you haven't had a Cholescystectomy, you might have an issue with it, & this might be something to consider.

But I strongly suggest you post exact diet & training up, then that can be looked at & rectified if there is an issue with it.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

You've had negative responses because you have basically said "I have done all these diets and they don't work".Ok fair enough.Then when people reply with good advice eg count calories you reply "The people who gave me these diets are highly qualified and told me not to".Yes but they didn't work so it doesn't matter how qualified the person who gives you the diet is,it's useless if you don't achieve your goal of losing weight!Also you say your boyfriend is a PT and sees what you eat,hence why you don't count your calories,what difference does that make,can he calculate a macro breakdown by merely looking at food?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

What does Poliquin say about Cardio then, it seems as if you're saying he suggests it's not effective - is that correct?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

SpotMe? said:


> I don't think counting calories is a necessity I just eat when I'm hungry but then again 6-7 meals a day sorts me out just fine.
> 
> I know my approach goes against what most people think is the 'right way' I agree weighing everything


People have been polite and patient. But I'm going to rude and direct. But honest.

Your an idiot, self righteous and looking for an excuse or someone to say ' I know, I'm the same'

If you truly track everything you eat to the last bite you will be able to solve this quickly.

It's very simple bits basic logic. Basic science and very effective.


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## RadMan23 (Dec 22, 2010)

Maybe you have the fat gene.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Op to put it nicely shut the **** up and count your calories


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Poliquin is against using cardio equipment and slow long duration. HIIT and sprints on the on other hand he is for.

TBH a mod may as well delete this thread I didn't come on here to argue or be told to shut the f**k up.


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## Fatboy80 (Feb 27, 2008)

How long have you been dieting for? Google 'metabolic damage' or failing that, drop @dutch_scott a message on here.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Charlee Scene said:


> Op to put it nicely shut the **** up and count your calories


Is that your constructive input into helping the OP,or do you trawl threads looking to insult people?

OP some people have been plain rude to you which is unacceptable however some have offered genuine advice which you have chosen to ignore.What do you actually want from this thread?

You asked why you aren't losing weight,counting calories and/or increasing cardio have been suggested but you've said you don't agree with either lol so what exactly are you after?


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## Big_Al13 (May 2, 2013)

SpotMe? said:


> TBH a mod may as well delete this thread I didn't come on here to argue or be told to shut the f**k up.


I'm not entirely sure what you hoped to achieve from this thread when you provide no real input other than saying you've tried everything and it doesn't work, and beg for help. YET when the helpful people on here have tried to glean some more information from you regarding macros/calories/pictures etc to gauge your current shape/diet you refuse to answer/ignore them, citing that you don't see the point and your PT partner does all of this for you.

As has been pointed out, it should be easy for him to provide a breakdown of weights of food you are eating in a list and then macros can be counted from there. This doesn't take long, and using something like myfitnesspal makes it even easier. This is really the least you could do if you want some helpful responses from the community on here.

Otherwise you might as well have asked what "X" is in this equation "....." (without proper input you cannot get an output)

Please don't take offence to people being rude, afterall the internet is faceless so it's easier than real life, but the people on here do indeed have a lot to give, but in order to get something you need to give a little as well.

Cheers,

Al.


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## FatBob (May 13, 2013)

@ OP, did you used to be a fair bit heavier?

It's believed that people at a lower weight that hasn't been sustained for years has 15% more efficiency in using intake energy.

Try adjusting your calories in vs calories out equations to have 15% less intake and see how it goes.


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Thank you Al, I never intended to ignore people asking me for more information who genuinely want to help, for that I apologise.

I've managed to portray myself completely wrong I'm not here to fight against people's opinions I do want help but I am beyond confused about my situation.

Thank you Latblaster for the link to that website, very useful indeed and an interesting read, definitely given me something to think about.

I've have my thyroid tested but that was about 3 or 4 years ago so potentially could be an issue now?

I've got a doctors appoitment booked in for tomorrow morning so hopefully that's a step in the right direction.

I downloaded myfitnesspal and have entered my food for today and it's come up with the following breakdown:

Total Fat - 116g

Saturated - 22g

Polyunsaturated - 39g

Monounsaturated - 30g

Trans - 0g

Cholesterol - 0g

Sodium - 271mg

Potassium - 350mg

Total Carbs - 53g

Dietary Fiber - 48g

Sugars - 24g

Protein - 204g

Vitamin A - 12% / 100%

Vitamin C - 26% / 100%

Calcium - 42% / 100%

Iron - 6% / 100%

Total Calories - 2085

For training we change it up every 6 to 8 weeks but at the moment we're going heavy, low reps high sets. Mike O' Hearn was the inspiration.

Monday - Leg Day

Squats 7 set of 2 up to 85kg

Leg Press 4 sets 12 up to 110kg

Bodyweight walking lunges becuase somebody was using the leg extension

Tuesday - Chest Day

Incline chest press 6 sets of 5 up to 35kg

DB chest press 5 sets of 6 16kg DBs

4 sets or 8-12 cable flys 3.75kg

Wednesday - Back Day

Deadlifts 7 sets of 2 up to 82.5kg

Seated row 5 sets 12 30kg

Lat pull down 5 sets of 8-12 up to 45kg

Today is shoulders & arms and Friday will be the 2nd leg day but I'm not sure what he's got lined up for me yet...


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Lol my comment was ment to be tongue n cheek sorry if it came across rude haha


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

SpotMe? said:


> I don't have a 'set diet' I vary my meats day by day tend to have beef on leg days.
> 
> I don't weigh anything as I was told it's not necessary.
> 
> ...


for a start, your eating four more meals a day than I do.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Its very very simple. Eat less and do more work. Not trying to sound like an ass but thats what it all boils down too.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

SpotMe? said:


> Thank you Al, I never intended to ignore people asking me for more information who genuinely want to help, for that I apologise.
> 
> I've managed to portray myself completely wrong I'm not here to fight against people's opinions I do want help but I am beyond confused about my situation.
> 
> ...


great start and decent lifts too.

If i was you I would start at

100g fat

50g Carbs

170 protein for a few days.

thats about 350 cals less in quick maths in my head.

Keep consistent and measure your success for 2 weeks.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Nice to see some of the more idiotic gurus on here who seem to know everything.

The issue is that I would say you are overtraining. It looks like you train 5 days a week solid? That's going to exhaust your CNS as well as deplete your neurons in your brain making you feel depleted.

Also does not give the body adequate rest.

Also looking at your diet there is a lot of sugars compared to complex which may be spiking your insulin at times you don't want it which would be hampering fat loss.

Really it is shocking to see people on here be so nasty thinking they know it all. That sort of behaviour is not allowed on here. It is gang mentality and if you aren't equipped to answer an in depth question then don't answer it with some crap about eating less and do more.

Such a practice actually contributes to less fat loss. Metabolic boosting from increasing certain fats actually aids fat loss.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

saxondale said:


> for a start, your eating four more meals a day than I do.


maybe you should eat more .


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

ewen said:


> maybe you should eat more .


portion size is fine - twice a day works for me.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I would break the training down into 2 on 1 off so you can recover fully. You may also want to try a carb cycling approach if you haven't already


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Nice to see some of the more idiotic gurus on here who seem to know everything.
> 
> The issue is that I would say you are overtraining. It looks like you train 5 days a week solid? That's going to exhaust your CNS as well as deplete your neurons in your brain making you feel depleted.
> 
> ...


plenty of people train 5 times a week without problems. I highly doubt the op is training hard enough to be "overtraining".

So therefore you are advising he works less (which will mean he is now doing way less than is actually capable of) and upping calories through fats.

Seems a little illogical to me. If he was cutting carbs apart from around training then fine.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> plenty of people train 5 times a week without problems. I highly doubt the op is training hard enough to be "overtraining".
> 
> So therefore you are advising he works less (which will mean he is now doing way less than is actually capable of) and upping calories through fats.
> 
> Seems a little illogical to me. If he was cutting carbs apart from around training then fine.


Seeing as you can't even work out that the OP is a female I don't really trust your analytical skills.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Also I never said work less. The way I would break down is combining body parts over less days so actually more volume in a more condensed period.

Training 5 days straight may work if you are on gear or train like a complete pu$$y but not if you are training to the point of failure or close to it.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Seeing as you can't even work out that the OP is a female I don't really trust your analytical skills.


Lol good spot. Dont really see it as relevent and personally feel that my comment still applies


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> Lol good spot. Dont really see it as relevent and personally feel that my comment still applies


Testosterone levels differ from male to female. I'd say that's a big difference.

Little points like that.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Testosterone levels differ from male to female. I'd say that's a big difference.
> 
> Little points like that.


True but i still think she can handle 5 times a week training.

She said deit isnt the issue etc so i was assuming she hadnt tried lowering food, so that would be the first thing to try and get the weight loss rolling again. And then when/if stalls add in cardio/up it as well.

You now as well as i do most people over eat (myself included). Seems like thats the issue here for me and why i commented what i did.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Nice to see some of the more idiotic gurus on here who seem to know everything.
> 
> Really it is shocking to see people on here be so nasty thinking they know it all. That sort of behaviour is not allowed on here. It is gang mentality and if you aren't equipped to answer an in depth question then don't answer it with some crap about eating less and do more.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)




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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Thank you for the compliment on my lifts I'm pleased with my strength progression, I feel very strong on this diet. I've been going up about on average 2.5kg a week on this programme and deadlifts started at 60kg until my technique was correct, very happy.

With regards to reducing my fats, I currently source them from nuts, flaxseed and coconut oil, which is the best to reduce or shall I reduce across all three?

My simple sugars are from the jam I put in my protein shake as I make my own it's 4 egg whites, tsp jam and a tsp cocoa powder shall I reduce the quantity of the jam or go for a different source?

I only train Mon-Fri for convenience really but my other half has a client on a Saturday so I could train when he's training him giving me a day off in the week, would doing Mon, Tues, Weds then Thurs off then Fri, Sat and then Sun off work?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

SpotMe? said:


> Thank you for the compliment on my lifts I'm pleased with my strength progression, I feel very strong on this diet. I've been going up about on average 2.5kg a week on this programme and deadlifts started at 60kg until my technique was correct, very happy.
> 
> With regards to reducing my fats, I currently source them from nuts, flaxseed and coconut oil, which is the best to reduce or shall I reduce across all three?
> 
> ...


If your lifts are going up and you aren't feeling the effects of CBS over training. Lethary, drop in mood, acid pain in the muscles long after training, then I would assume your training is fine and i certainly wouldn't change anything for NOW any anyway

The fats you are eating are all of decent quality it seems. I would just do it as what you prefer eating on a given day. I'm sure this is a calorie issue more than a micronutrient issue.

Isolate one issue. adjust it. test it. Measure it. Re-evaluate.

If you try and change to many things at one, you won't know what is the cause and effect.

A wise man once said.

"Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler"


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Do you really need to train 5 days a week and do you need to fit your training into a 7 day cycle?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

SpotMe? said:


> I'll try and sum this up as much as possible. I've been eating clean for about a year and a half trying every variety of diet to try and find what suits me. I've had a 12 point BF test 5 times in this time period and my BF has reduced from 23% to just under 19% however for the last year I've been what I'd describe as 'stuck'.
> 
> I've tried a strict comp diet for 12 weeks, I've tried lowering and increasing my carbs, carb cycling, Paleo, Keto. You can see where I'm going with this, I've varied my re-feeds trying different types of food and not cheating at all. I've been making a point to try a certain diet for 6-8 weeks it's not been a case of 'that's not working I'll try that, then that, then that.'
> 
> ...


Reading this through and the rest of the thread, the first thing that occurred to me is something that relates to a couple of women I've helped with diet in the past, and that's that you may possibly have a medical issue that is hampering your progression.

I think it would be worth getting a check both for hypothyroidism and for PCOS, both conditions that affect more women than actually have a diagnosis for it, and symptomatically (inability to lose fat beyond a certain point despite using normally effective dietary and exercise protocols) match what you are describing very closely.

I don't want to be alarmist or worry with this, but think it's worth checking out, because if you do have either condition then getting treatment will help hugely, and because if you don't have either condition you have at least ruled them out and can relax about it and look to other solutions.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)




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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)




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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)




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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)




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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Yes sorry.


No worries mate!!


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Thank you dtlv, I will make a point of mentioning these if my doctor doesn't flag them tomorrow morning.

To go from here, you're right, I need to focus on one thing at a time, I'll go to the doctors tomorrow and arrange tests etc needed to rule out any medical issues and as you say if they aren't the cause at least I'll know.

So if that fails then I will try adjusting one other thing at a time, I think that's been the main cause for confusion that I've been trying to adjust everything at once hoping that something or anything would work.

Fresh start and new approach.

Thank you very much for your help.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)




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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> No bandwagon tom, i didnt even read anyone elses post. i just felt that would be the case given the changing of all the diet styles etc. If all diet styles arnt working, then i came to the conclusion it would be a total calorie intake/expenditure problem.
> 
> And they arnt digs mate. We arnt children just a tongue in cheek comment that i thought you would be okay with, having seen you do it to others on many occasion. You made digs at me with your first comment about bullying (wtf??), i was fine with that, didnt start chucking my weight around and getting in a hissy fit though.
> 
> ...


Firstly the bullying not aimed at you not sure where you got that from.

Secondly if you have been through a diet then you would know that it's not so cut and dry as 'eat less do more'. So why post something so unhelpful and actually wrong in a lot of cases.

You have a lot of prior examples here of questioning or insulting mods here. Last time I think it was saying @Milky was on a power trip. So I'm not out of order thinking you were on the same with me.

If you think that hard training is possible 5 straight days a week non gear assisted then I'd love to see some evidence of this either anecdotal or journal to back this up.

I've been around a long time and there is overwhelming documented evidence to contradict what you are saying so if you have something new to add to that to the contrary then lets see it. Just saying 'I think she could train 5 days a week' is rubbish. I've been PTing for a long time. I've trained myself for a long time and I'd never advocate a 5 day straight weights routine.

So it just seems you are pulling stuff out with zero knowledge to back it up. But then I'm in the wrong because I question you?

Your comment about 'no one can comment except me'. That's infantile. I don't stop people commenting but if you post crap that's got nothing to back it up (not just you but a lot of the others) then expect to be picked up on it and don't throw a tantrum when you do.

That's a joke.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Firstly the bullying not aimed at you not sure where you got that from.
> 
> Secondly if you have been through a diet then you would know that it's not so cut and dry as 'eat less do more'. So why post something so unhelpful and actually wrong in a lot of cases.
> 
> ...


And all those comments are fine.

Im literally just posting from own experience/what i would do, but it seems you are singling me out here. If i ever post a thread asking for advice, i tend to go with what the majority are saying, so i was just putting my 2 pence in on the situation and then leaving it up the op to make decision (was just on my way to training so made it short).

Issue with milky was ages ago and still feel he was on a power trip at the time, hes been fine ever since, as have i to him.

Not trying to act like some big shot guru mate, cos after all ive achieved nothing, i do have clients that ive help get good gains and reduce/keep bf levels the same (both male and female clients btw and natty).

I personally dont feel my opinion is a joke and i do have some ideas that have value. I left the post short and sweet and if the op quoted me and wanted me to expand, then i would. I dont feel your digs singling me out were justified, but whatever, seems ive wound you up in someway over time. Non intentional.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> If you think that hard training is possible 5 straight days a week non gear assisted then I'd love to see some evidence of this either anecdotal or journal to back this up.
> 
> I've been around a long time and there is overwhelming documented evidence to contradict what you are saying so if you have something new to add to that to the contrary then lets see it. Just saying 'I think she could train 5 days a week' is rubbish. I've been PTing for a long time. I've trained myself for a long time and I'd never advocate a 5 day straight weights routine.


What do you base your idea of 5 days training as too much on? Do you mean this for females or for both genders? I think as long as you're in good health and not actually suffering over-training symptoms it's ok to train as often as you like, assuming the body has the right nutrients for repair. The human body can and does adapt.

I do get annoyed at the "calories in/calories out" argument being used for everyone. There are other factors that are involved which have been pointed out by the intelligent members of this board. I think the issue is that typically people automatically blame other factors (thyroid) as to why they cannot lose fat when in fact it is down to calories in/out, so people will automatically attack those who say they are the exception to the rule. Try not to be so quick to judge people.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

rectus said:


> What do you base your idea of 5 days training as too much on? Do you mean this for females or for both genders? I think as long as you're in good health and not actually suffering over-training symptoms it's ok to train as often as you like, assuming the body has the right nutrients for repair. The human body can and does adapt.
> 
> I do get annoyed at the "calories in/calories out" argument being used for everyone. There are other factors that are involved which have been pointed out by the intelligent members of this board. I think the issue is that typically people automatically blame other factors (thyroid) as to why they cannot lose fat when in fact it is down to calories in/out, so people will automatically attack those who say they are the exception to the rule. Try not to be so quick to judge people.


This may get into a long discussion.

There's a good article in this months of last months MD about it.

Basically you can train for 5 days solid if all the conditions are right but rarely they are unless you are a comp athlete getting sponsored to train. Most of us have jobs and other stressors that deplete the neuronsin the brain and stress the CNS before we even get to the gym.

Even me owning a gym I find it difficult to lead the perfect bber lifestyle when theoretically I can train when I want etc.

There is evidence to show that after 2 days there are negative factors in the body that release to hamper training such as free radicals and other by products of intense training that act as barriers to an effective workout. Therefore the rest day after 2 days should be employed as a kind of detox for these elements.

That's intense weight training. Obviously cardio etc is slightly different as you don't get the same negative factors. However I think most people would agree doing an hour of HIT training 5 days a week without rest may not be optimal for the body.

The issue for women is that testosterone promotes faster recovery so they may need the rest day more than a male. However we all could point to women that are at the top of their game that can train harder than a lot of guys. There's always the exception.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> And all those comments are fine.
> 
> Im literally just posting from own experience/what i would do, but it seems you are singling me out here. If i ever post a thread asking for advice, i tend to go with what the majority are saying, so i was just putting my 2 pence in on the situation and then leaving it up the op to make decision (was just on my way to training so made it short).
> 
> ...


Sorry you caught me on a bad day today. My points were valid and stand by them but maybe I could have been more diplomatic in my posting.

I certainly wasn't singling you out intentionally. You were just the only one to reply


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> This may get into a long discussion.
> 
> There's a good article in this months of last months MD about it.
> 
> ...


Long discussions are good 

If you train 5-7 days per week and your training and health isn't affected in a negative way then I think it is OK to keep doing what you're doing. Like I said, the body adapts. Some make adaptations better than others of course so maybe this recommendation works for the general population but if you want a muscular physique and are a hard gainer then more frequency is required.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Tinytom said:


> This may get into a long discussion.
> 
> There's a good article in this months of last months MD about it.
> 
> ...


I think there is a lot of evidence to show that as a brief period of over-reaching training hard 5-6 days a week can work well to promote short term adaptations if structured properly - many track and field olympic level athletes train this way just prior to a comp or for periodized phases, but as a long term chronic way to train, unless loaded on PEDs or stims, it is likely to cause issues at some point.

I went through a 'I wanna be James Bond/Superman/Jason Bourne/Rocky/ultimate ninja' phase where I trained like made for five days a week, doing weights, plyo, HIIT, cross country running... felt like a machine for the first few weeks, but after a month or so despite no limits on food intake and plenty of rest when not training I quickly became utterly fcuked, and soon mood plummeted and performance began to decline quickly.

Quality over quantity wins each time, especially for long term progression IMO. I do think there is value in some planned over-reaching some times, but only as temp phase of a periodized approach.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

rectus said:


> Long discussions are good
> 
> If you train 5-7 days per week and your training and health isn't affected in a negative way then I think it is OK to keep doing what you're doing. Like I said, the body adapts. Some make adaptations better than others of course so maybe this recommendation works for the general population but if you want a muscular physique and are a hard gainer then more frequency is required.


Agree. Knowing your body, it's limits and when to push them is the key.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

dtlv said:


> I think there is a lot of evidence to show that as a brief period of over-reaching training hard 5-6 days a week can work well to promote short term adaptations if structured properly - many track and field olympic level athletes train this way just prior to a comp or for periodized phases, but as a long term chronic way to train, unless loaded on PEDs or stims, it is likely to cause issues at some point.
> 
> I went through a 'I wanna be James Bond/Superman/Jason Bourne/Rocky/ultimate ninja' phase where I trained like made for five days a week, doing weights, plyo, HIIT, cross country running... felt like a machine for the first few weeks, but after a month or so despite no limits on food intake and plenty of rest when not training I quickly became utterly fcuked, and soon mood plummeted and performance began to decline quickly.
> 
> Quality over quantity wins each time, especially for long term progression IMO. I do think there is value in some planned over-reaching some times, but only as temp phase of a periodized approach.


Yes totally. Purposefully forcing the body into shock with a weeks flat out training can be good and push past boundaries. Same as 2 weeks straight rest can encourage new growth as the body recovers.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Sorry you caught me on a bad day today. My points were valid and stand by them but maybe I could have been more diplomatic in my posting.
> 
> I certainly wasn't singling you out intentionally. You were just the only one to reply


Not a problem. I could have given a better more in depth responce to the op.

And regards to 5/6 day training, his will not work in my opinion if you are using proper hit style with forced reps and beyond failure with a training partner.

For people that train alone like me, most you can safely do is failure to form and some partials. So therefore you arnt hitting cns as hard as with say for example, dorians style. I have very short rest periods and lots of sets in my style of training alone. Therefore i feel i recover very fast.

Lifestyle as well. I never get stressed. Always chilled out. Im told too much lol. And i always have enough sleep. I always pack away a lot of calories (clean in the day and then bumped up with simple sugars and some "dirty calories" in the evening.

I think nutrition is even more key when it comes to being able to train every day. Most cant eat enough calories from clean sources so there get drained very fast. Lots of simple carbs from fluids and solid food should be consumed post workout in my opinion sort recovery out fast. Im not talking your 50g carb shake or whatever. Im talking more like 300 - 400g.


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## SpotMe? (Feb 2, 2012)

Just as an update I had bloods taken on Wednesday so should have the results soon. I'm not sure whether it would be something anybody would be interested in but I may track my progress from hereon? Maybe via a journal, not sure what makes a good read?


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## welshplum84 (Oct 13, 2012)

Hi folks, just had a quick skim over this thread and felt compelled to add my 2p!

It is not just calories in V calories out, the body adapts to what it's given so it can be a challenge.

A few points for you SpotMe?

You mention you have IBS, have you researched into protocols or products than can help with that other than Poloquin (go find Ben Coomber on youtube, he suffers from gluten intolerance and has spent a long time healing his GI tract) thing like probiotics. AD Ravenous could be another you could look into.

This could be hormonal as previously mentioned, I hope that the results you get back will show something than can be fixed!

Go on youtube and find Layne Norton, he is a coach with a phd and has done a few vids on metabolic damage (I am NOT saying you have this) he also talks about how to increase calories gradually therefore creating a greater caloric starting point to cut from.

You said you were advised that you are carb intolerent, have you tried and tested out various forms and quantities to see how you react? You body might only like a given amount in a meal otherwise it could bloat.

Last though is that perhaps your body like to be where it is (even thought you might not), you diet is consistent as is your training so your body will adapt and stay where it is (Google homeostasis)

That's all I can think of ATM, just a few point for you to ponder 

(I must add that I NOT a PT or nutritionist of any sort, I have worked my ass off over the last year to get rid of 4 stone and would love to be 19%BF, I have tried to educate myself to do this so thought I would pass this on)


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