# how much fat on a keto refeed?



## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

ive been on a keto for 2 weeks straight and goin to have a refeed fri or sat , just woundering how much fat you have during the refeed?

do u keep it the same as the days your on a keto or do u lower it or what?


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

flynnie11 said:


> ive been on a keto for 2 weeks straight and goin to have a refeed fri or sat , just woundering how much fat you have during the refeed?
> 
> do u keep it the same as the days your on a keto or do u lower it or what?


Keep fat as low as possible on refeed. First 3 meals on refeed should be liquid, I have 50g dex, 50g corn starch, 50g whey X 3. Remainder of refeed pasta, rice, oats, potato, and keep protein high.


----------



## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

ya thats what i taught just goin to eat carbs and protein for first five meals and the only fat il be taking in will b on my cheat meal at the end.

why is it that the first 3 meals should be liquid?


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

flynnie11 said:


> ya thats what i taught just goin to eat carbs and protein for first five meals and the only fat il be taking in will b on my cheat meal at the end.
> 
> why is it that the first 3 meals should be liquid?


Because you're body is able to store glycogen at an accelerated rate when your stores are very empty. So it is best to utilise this by getting in some fast acting stuff quickly. Then the rate slows, which is when you switch to slower burning carbs. Also, the massive insulin response will also push some proteins back into the muscles, and may have an anabolic effect on the muscle.


----------



## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> Because you're body is able to store glycogen at an accelerated rate when your stores are very empty. So it is best to utilise this by getting in some fast acting stuff quickly. Then the rate slows, which is when you switch to slower burning carbs. Also, the massive insulin response will also push some proteins back into the muscles, and may have an anabolic effect on the muscle.


very interesting , never knew that. thanks for the advice bigjoe :thumbup1:


----------



## smaj210 (Aug 1, 2009)

i start with sugars and wms then move to fruit and pasta then wholewheat toast and veg


----------



## b4rmy (Nov 15, 2008)

B|GJOE, whats dex?

infact, is there another alternative you could consume, because corn starch mixed with whey (including dex, whatever that is) sounds kinda yukk.

thanks



B|GJOE said:


> I have 50g dex, 50g corn starch, 50g whey X 3. Remainder of refeed pasta, rice, oats, potato, and keep protein high.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2010)

Jumping in on B|GJOE's behalf here but 'dex' is dextrose.


----------



## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

rdfp22 said:


> Jumping in on B|GJOE's behalf here but 'dex' is dextrose.


Me too, Dextrose is glucose. Dextrorotatory glucose to be precise.


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

smaj210 said:


> i start with sugars and wms then move to fruit and pasta then wholewheat toast and veg


When you say sugars, I hope you don't mean sucrose?

Also, why all the fruit?

You want to replenish muscle glycogen, so you want glucose and starches, not sucrose and fructose. Sucrose is 50% fructose.


----------



## Dean00 (Jan 25, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> When you say sugars, I hope you don't mean sucrose?
> 
> Also, why all the fruit?
> 
> You want to replenish muscle glycogen, so you want glucose and starches, not sucrose and fructose. Sucrose is 50% fructose.


I take it your a big fan of keto i was thinking of trying it for my next comp prep.

Can the diet be used to get in such condition as your avi etc


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Dean00 said:


> I take it your a big fan of keto i was thinking of trying it for my next comp prep.
> 
> Can the diet be used to get in such condition as your avi etc


The diet WAS used to get in the condition in my avvi:thumb: :thumb:


----------



## Dean00 (Jan 25, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> The diet WAS used to get in the condition in my avvi:thumb: :thumb:


I was hoping that :thumb:

Nice one man ill defo be giving it a go come prep time

makes alot more sens than the usal contest diet:beer:


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Dean00 said:


> I was hoping that :thumb:
> 
> Nice one man ill defo be giving it a go come prep time
> 
> makes alot more sens than the usal contest diet:beer:


It's not necessarily the results it gives, as you can achieve similar results on various other diets. I just like the convenience, and simplicity.


----------



## smaj210 (Aug 1, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> When you say sugars, I hope you don't mean sucrose?
> 
> Also, why all the fruit?
> 
> You want to replenish muscle glycogen, so you want glucose and starches, not sucrose and fructose. Sucrose is 50% fructose.


thanks for the imput, yes some was sucrose (an excuse to eat a bit of junk) As for the fruit i thought they would be good, ill switch to glucose and starch for all my carbs ffrom now on.

thanks


----------



## nutnut (Dec 29, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> Keep fat as low as possible on refeed. First 3 meals on refeed should be liquid, I have 50g dex, 50g corn starch, 50g whey X 3. Remainder of refeed pasta, rice, oats, potato, and keep protein high.


Sorry to jump in as always, hopefully my questions help someone!

Hi Joe, I need to catch up on your journal! I will do after this post...

Would you have your liquids all in one go? then just start eating?

I've dropped from 105kg to weighing 92.6kg this morning since March 18th. No goals really other than to see if I can diet, because even though im 6ft 5in I was just eating whatever as "bulking" so wanted to get some discipline. I haven't really been doing my refeeds properly as such, just literally I thought I'd eat as much crap as possible not even looking at what was in it.

I've found my appetite to have vanished now, im never hungry... nor do I crave anything. So I actually skipped that above horrid cheat meal this weekend, therefore haven't had any carbs (traces 1g here and there in random things I eat) since the 17th...

I want to plan a proper refeed too which benefits me, I'm wondering how much should I eat.. because even though im not hungry, I do appear to just be able to keep on eating (example spent 10 quid in KFC, 1 hour later 12 inch subway, 2 hours later full dominos pizza) I actually slowed down because I was worried about wasting money, and went to tescos got some ice cream and other bits and ate them. Obviously I don't want to eat like that again, unless its beneficial.

Look forward to your thoughts :bounce:


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

I do a depletion workout friday evening. Followed immediately by one of my liquid drinks, another 2 hours later, and another 2 hours later. Bed, then saturday I either have sweet potato, chicken breast, and bisto best gravy (its low fat), every 2 hours for 5 meals. If I'm being lazy I'll just have oats, skimmed milk, and whey.

For snacks I eat things like Go Ahead low fat biscuits, I know there is sugar in them, but as long as I don't over do it, there shouldn't be too much fructose going to the liver.

About every 4th week I'll have some fatty junk at the end of carb up. Had a pizza last weekend.


----------



## nutnut (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks Joe, I'll give that a try


----------



## big_nige (Apr 3, 2007)

joe why not fruit on the carb refeed day??


----------



## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

B|GJOE said:


> When you say sugars, I hope you don't mean sucrose?
> 
> Also, why all the fruit?
> 
> You want to replenish muscle glycogen, so you want glucose and starches, not sucrose and fructose. Sucrose is 50% fructose.


From what i've read on CKD's, isn't fruit suggested before Friday's depletion workout? To give you the energy from liver glycogen to push you through the gruelling workout. Sorry if that's been mentioned in the thread already.


----------



## spaynter (Jul 6, 2009)

Fruit is OK is small quantities. It's the differing physiological effects of Glucose and Fructose that counts here.

Fruit is fructose and replenishes liver glycogen after depletion. This is necessary, but you've lost far more glycogen from muscles than liver, so the majority of carbs should be glucose or starch.

Once the liver is full, fructose then is looking to be stored as fat. I have a couple of apples pre last depletion workout, and stick to green veg the rest of the time.


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

engllishboy said:


> From what i've read on CKD's, isn't fruit suggested before Friday's depletion workout? To give you the energy from liver glycogen to push you through the gruelling workout. Sorry if that's been mentioned in the thread already.


That's correct. On Friday there are a couple of things I do to prepare for the refeed. 5 hours before my depletion workout I have about 20g of dextrose in water, this is to start up regulating the liver enzymes, as they have been in a keto metabolism for 6 days. Then 90 mins before the depletion workout i have 20g of pure fructose. My belief, but don't quote me, is the fructose replaces some glycogen in the liver, which prevents you from holding onto the muscle glycogen. If both the liver and the muscles are almost empty, the liver will do what it can to keep hold of glycogen wherever available, as it may need it. If the liver has glycogen from the fructose, then it will readily allow the muscle glycogen to be burned off.


----------



## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

Joe could you have oats with your whey

or superfine oats or would it need to be a fast acting carb like wms ? Doing my refeed sat nite with my 3 meals as liquids then next day 5 meals of good protein and carbs then last meal a pcf meal .Sorry to hijack thread


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

I'd go with wms for first 3 meals, so long as you are well depleted, the body will store it an excelerated rate.


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Can you link me to your journal Joe please


----------



## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

Oh my body Is depleted joe been 5 weeks now so need a carb refeed


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> Can you link me to your journal Joe please


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/competitive-journals/89109-b-gjoes-2010-pre-competition-journal.html?highlight=B%7CGJOE


----------

