# starting a bulk, advice on things appreciated,



## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

hey all,

been a member here for a while, and have been training over the last year. decided i am going to start another bulk,

just wanted a opinion on the following routine.


*Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):*flat dumbell Bench Press3x8-12seated dumbell OHP3x8-12Incline dumbell Bench Press3x8-12Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise3x8-12tricep ext 3x8-12Overhead EZ Bar Extension:3x8-12Shrugs(dumbbells):3x8-12*Pull (Back/Biceps):*Barbell Rows: 3x8-12Lat Pulldowns wide grip: 3x8-12T-Bar row : 3x8-12Face-pulls:3x8-12Ez bar Bicep Curls: 4x8Hammer Curls: 3x8-12*Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):*Barbell Squats:4x8-12SLDL (over 8 reps)4x8-12Leg Extensions:4x8Hamstring Curls: 4x8Standing Calf Raises: 4x8*Rest Day if needed or wanted**Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):*flat barbell Bench Press5x5seated smith OHP5x5Incline smith Bench Press5x5Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise4x5tricep ext 3x10Overhead EZ Bar Extension:3x10Shrugs(dumbbells):4x5*Pull (Back/Biceps):*Barbell Rows: 5x5Lat Pulldowns wide grip: 5x5T-Bar row : 5x5Face-pulls: 4x5Ez bar Bicep Curls: 3x10Hammer Curls: 3x10*Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):*Barbell Squats: 5x5Deadlifts3x5Leg Extensions: 5x5Hamstring Curls: 5x5Standing Calf Raises: 5x5

rest day if wanted or needed then repeat.

My aim is to build size and strength. i am eating 3500 calories, weigh around 200lbs, around 13-14% bf according to caliper test a week ago. hoping to train 5-6 days a week.

food intake as follows


 Co-Op - Porridge Oats 50 g, 100 g3606081119Tesco - Banana Milkshake Mix (No Milk), 20 g771900190Asda Fresh Milk - Semi Skimmed 150ml, 400 ml20019714190Matrix Nutrition Anabolic Matrix Protein (2.25kg - 80% Whey Protein, 50 g192424000Add Food Quick Tools

829102176539911am Morrisons Savers - Cooked Chicken Pieces, 0.66 container (240 gs ea.)190124100Sainsbury's - Mature Cheddar Cheese Slice - 10 Slice Pack, 1 Slice9408600Tilda - Steamed Basmati Rice - Vegetable Biryani , 250 g296517627Add Food Quick Tools

580521753272pm Morrisons Savers - Cooked Chicken Pieces, 0.66 container (240 gs ea.)190124100Tilda - Sundried Tomato Steamed Basmati Rice, 250 g (Half Packet)300566535Sainsbury's - Mature Cheddar Cheese Slice - 10 Slice Pack, 1 Slice9408600Add Food Quick Tools

584571652353.30pm Pre Work Out Add Food Quick Tools

      5.30pm Matrix Nutrition Anabolic Matrix Protein (2.25kg - 80% Whey Protein, 50 g192424000Nestle Nesquik - Strawberry Milk Flavouring Powder, 2 tbsp (16g)601500150Co-Op - Porridge Oats 50 g, 100 g3606081119Generic - Egg, Whole, Raw, Medium 45 g, 135 g1891131700Add Food Quick Tools

8018023681698pm Birdseye - Minted Peas, 75 g4550425Potato - Mashed Potato With Semi Skimmed Milk, 300 g3154713506Waitrose Easy to Cook - Pork Escalopes With A Tangy Gruyere & Mustard Crust , 122 g2486113200Snicker's - Ice Cream Bar, 1 bar18018113151Add Food Quick Tools

7887635441712   Totals3,5823671082827742Your Daily Goal3,4453011143013420Remaining-137-66619-43-22CaloriesCarbsFatProteinSugarFiber

 


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

oh im 6ft 2, 28 years old, office job, 94kg approximately


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

What was all that gibberish?


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

supposed to be the routine, my stats and an average days food intake


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

zero2hero2013 said:


> supposed to be the routine, my stats and an average days food intake


Hey!

I am not a genius here but i can offer some advice.

Food looks okay - not the cleanest bulk but who the fck even does that anymore right ? lol!

Workouts - why are you changing rep ranges?

Id suggest.

LEGS / PUSH / PULL / LEGS - PHASE 1

PUSH / PULL / LEGS / PUSH - PHASE 2

PULL / LEGS / PUSH / PULL - PHASE 3

+REPEAT!

However - why not keep to either 5 sets of 5 reps on your compounds and maybe lower to 3 sets of 5 on other exercises....looks like you have a lot of volume going on...so for example

Push -

DB Bench Press - 5X5

Incline Flies - 3X5

Seated OHP - 5X5

Side Raises - 3X5

Close grip bench press - 5X5

Skull Crushers - 3X5

Finish on dips with 2 big plates wacked on your legs for extra pressure!

I usually go for something like that - remember HIT BIG! even if you hit 3 reps and die! just fkcing destroy them weights!!!

Also on the "3X5" - I like to emphasize the movement (negatives) as i feel like a lazy cnut for doing 3 sets lol!

GOOD LUCK HOLMES!

P.S

BENCH PRESS = 5X5

SQUATS = 5X5

DEADLIFTS = 5X5

GO MASSIVE! you want to be wishing you was carried out the gym - not walking about smiling with all your nancy boy friends!

Put ya music on and get in the zone buddy!


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

Eat more! That aint no bulk you ahould be in the 6000 callories! Morrisons chicken pieces? WTF!! Get down to the butchers you should be able to buy yourself 5 kilos of chicken breast for around £30 that will last you a while! And whilst your in there pick up some steak and eggs lots of eggs!! You aint got enough meals in that days routine and where is that massive amount of fats carbs and protein coming from? Mashed potatoe??

Eat this..

Wake up 4 wetabix large bowl coco pops

15 Egg whites 4 rashers of bacon

Sweet potatoe 200g chicken breast

protein shake

Sweet potatoe 200g chicken breast

protein bar

chips veg small rice large steak

noodles/rice chicken

protein shake porridge blueberries bannana milk blended

Along with all your supps and glutamine you will grow with decent training


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

cool thanks for the advice, liking the appoach


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

big chicken lover, ordered 10kg of chicken of muscle foods already, due to be delivered today, plan on eating it instead of this. i am going to stick to 3500 calories for a couple of weeks then increase by 200 per week if i don't gain weight. rather take a slower approach on the weight gaining.


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

zero2hero2013 said:


> big chicken lover, ordered 10kg of chicken of muscle foods already, due to be delivered today, plan on eating it instead of this. i am going to stick to 3500 calories for a couple of weeks then increase by 200 per week if i don't gain weight. rather take a slower approach on the weight gaining.


You wont gain weight eating that amount, that is meerley enough for an average male. Not to increase mass or train with weights IMO


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

thanks big, for a sedentary guy training 5-6 times a week how much you reckon i will need to gain around 0.5-1 lb a week in weight?


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I don't think you need MUCH more than 3500 cals tbh..


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## sxbarnes (Dec 1, 2005)

I thought you were using my fitness pal there. I have to eat 2800 cal to maintain plus another 1000 if I train plus 500 if I do cardio. So I'd be 4300 if you did all that in one day.

Ideally 5300 cals and upwards for bulking


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

Wana grow eat its simple guys!

Average sedentary male sits around doing nothing? Are you saying your not really guna get up off the couch to lift weights im confused!!

For a start you dont wana train more than 4 times a week if your going big you need big rest one on one off is usualy the best protocol. Then mix it up after a couple of months.

As for weight gain if your hitting the gym hard and eating what id recommend you should see gains not dramatic but decent gains in the matter of a few weeks weigh yourself every sunday pre breakfast.

But seriously you need to be consuming 6000 cals to BULK... After all if your going hard in the gym you will be hungry!!


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

bigchickenlover said:


> But seriously you need to be consuming 6000 cals to BULK...


At 200lbs, I'd say 6000 calories is a bit excessive


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

L11 said:


> At 200lbs, I'd say 6000 calories is a bit excessive


Of course it's excessive. You are 100% right. This is the natural bodybuilding section. If a guy is eating 6000 cals a day at 200lbs he is gonna get fat. There is only so much muscle you can gain naturally


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

First thing id say is drop the frequency to 3 maybe 4 days especially as a natty trying to bulk up


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

thanks guys for the input, week1 is over and my wieght has already jumped from 92.5kg to 95.5kg, i was on a cut before. i shall keep the same intake for another week and see how it pans out.

i am currently doing chest and back day and then legs and shoulders, with a rest day then repeat. hitting each body part with 4 exercises twice a week. does this osund like a better regime?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Did someone really say someone needs 6000kcals to natty bulk? Seriously, what the fuq?! I grow easily on 3000k, 6'1, 82kg, if I upped it to even 3500 everyday I'd get fat quickly.


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

i have actaully changed my mind alittle more, i am training one on one off, same routine, gives chest and shoulders a chance to rest between each session.

managed a single 140kg squat, 110kg bench pres, and 170kg deadlift, and 85kg bor for 5 and clean and jerk 70kg for 5, clean and press 60 for 5, now time to improve on these! i will post up every few weeks if anyone is interested in my progression, my aim is only to gain around 1lb a week maximum. and to continue like this for 6-9 months


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> Did someone really say someone needs 6000kcals to natty bulk? Seriously, what the fuq?! I grow easily on 3000k, 6'1, 82kg, if I upped it to even 3500 everyday I'd get fat quickly.


I get very confused on this whole subject of "natural bulking"...

At the moment i am cutting - Say i cut and i end up being

12.5 stone with a height of 5.10

You recon 3000k is enough to make gains? fck getting fat again! i was 19stone once upon a time! i never want to be back there LOL!


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

L11 said:


> At 200lbs, I'd say 6000 calories is a bit excessive


Yeah i'd defo agree with this.

Whats the macro split the OP is suggesting for 3500?

Cos I think personally at 200lbs he's only going to need around 200-300g protein that's 1200 calories from that max.

Moderate fats: say 70 equals 630 calories. so at 3500 calories your going to be taking in over 400g of carbs a day?

Natty lifter totally totally plenty on the calories, if anything i think your body composition is going to be bad by the end of a 6 week bulk at those calories unless your an ecto maybe. Expect to go plus 15% bodyfat within 4 weeks.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

SCOOT123 said:


> I get very confused on this whole subject of "natural bulking"...
> 
> At the moment i am cutting - Say i cut and i end up being
> 
> ...


Here's how I work it out-

Bw (lbs) x 14 = maintenance calories, eat 300-500 over that to bulk, 500 under it to cut


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## mccreesh (Jan 30, 2013)

i have an office job so sitting down most of the day but train every day alternating between weights and cardio every other day

i weight 4kg less than you and i was gaining weight at 3000 too quickly so dropped to 2800

maybe start at 3000 and re-assess every couple weeks and keep bumping up the calorie by couple hundred until your happy with the steady weight gain?


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> Here's how I work it out-
> 
> Bw (lbs) x 14 = maintenance calories, eat 300-500 over that to bulk, 500 under it to cut


Right so

ME = 190lbs

x14 = 2660

Fair enough - i understand that part - but i don't understand how i would then work out what carbs and fats to have lol! I know i sound like a dumb fck - i am.


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

I dont think the x14 rule of any other calculator is really the final answer in the quest for bulking or cutting.

Too many variables to take in to account his metabolism, his actual daily routine, the food he eats and intensity of his training vs another individual.

So I would say the ultimate way to figure this is out is YOU are going to have to work it out.

So let's say OP starts at 3000 for his bulk

not gaining = up 100-200 calories a week till you do.

gaining fat = drop 100-200 calories a week until the gains are looking more favourable.

I think end of the day everyones body is slightly different and as a guide id say 3000 was place to start and take it from there you dont want to overspill into fat gains right at the start of a bulk. take it up slowly, remember if your natural you ain't cutting any lard off your ass easily mate so try to stop it starting but keeping your bulks fairly lean.

good luck


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

SCOOT123 said:


> Right so
> 
> ME = 190lbs
> 
> ...


1g protein per lb

0.5g fat per lb

The rest carbs


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

ok cheers guys,

my weight is now 98kg, originall 93kg 11 days ago, and 95.5 i think last friday, im not worried at the moment, my strength is up, my energy has finally balanced out, although i am feeling fatter i wouldnt say any more so then 3 days after starting my bulk (added water retention). i think i will take some of the advice here and drop the 500 extra on non training days.

i train every other day as i train with a friend. so this means 3500 on training days, and 3000 on off days. this should drop the cals by 1500-2000 a week, il check the scales next thur/fri and hopefully il weigh around the same.

just to confirm, my macros are roughly,

350-400g of carbs, 80-120g of fat, and 280-320g of protein. i will shave back a little of the fat and carbs to trim the 500 calories off.

Thanks for help guys


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

zero2hero2013 said:


> ok cheers guys,
> 
> my weight is now 98kg, originall 93kg 11 days ago, and 95.5 i think last friday, im not worried at the moment, my strength is up, my energy has finally balanced out, although i am feeling fatter i wouldnt say any more so then 3 days after starting my bulk (added water retention). i think i will take some of the advice here and drop the 500 extra on non training days.
> 
> ...


With your eating pattern - would it not serve better to have higher macros on REST DAYS ? ....your body grows out the gym mate youd be better off sinking more in when your bodys feeding properly(resting) not working your tits off burning the good foods you just put inside of you!

Thats my 2pence

@robdobbie

cheers bro

so

190g protein

95g fat

Seems pretty low for a bulk ? im eating 100g fat / 190g protein and 20g carbs atm cutting.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

SCOOT123 said:


> With your eating pattern - would it not serve better to have higher macros on REST DAYS ? ....your body grows out the gym mate youd be better off sinking more in when your bodys feeding properly(resting) not working your tits off burning the good foods you just put inside of you!
> 
> Thats my 2pence
> 
> ...


They're just ruff guide lines mate, 1g/lb protein 0.5g/lb fat is a minimum I try and follow, can definitely be higher if you want, but it's usually easier/cheaper to make up the rest of your diet with carbs.

Starting my first cycle over the next couple days, and my diets going to 1.75-2g/lb protein, 0.60g/lb fat and the rest carbs making up ~3500kcals


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## tikkajohn (Dec 6, 2012)

Not every one has the same daily caloric needs, IM on 4000kcals a day and gaining slowly and not much fat gain either can still see abs, I'm 6ft 2 90kg you need to find what works for you.


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

currently eating around 3500-4000 calories and my weight has settled at 98kg, i will give it till friday and see what happens, hoping for 98.5kg


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

oh also, new personal bests,

now have a 155kg squat, up from 145 all time, and 135 3 weeks ago,

, 115kg bench, up from 110kg 3 weeks ago,

100kg for 5, 2 extra reps on before

95kg bor, up 15kg in the last 3 weeks.

dumbel should press has gone up around 5kg per dumbell as well.

all in all very happy with progression. il post up a pic


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

zero2hero2013 said:


> currently eating around 3500-4000 calories and my weight has settled at 98kg, i will give it till friday and see what happens, hoping for 98.5kg


Why are you so concerned with your weight?

Not much if any of what you've gained will be muscle and if you continue to chase scale weight I can see you gettin fat

Concentrate on improving your gym performances and how you look in the mirror


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

guess i just want to pack on the weight steadily to keep my strength improving, im not that worried about gaining some fat as long my strength keep rising im happy. and currently it is.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

zero2hero2013 said:


> guess i just want to pack on the weight steadily to keep my strength improving, im not that worried about gaining some fat as long my strength keep rising im happy. and currently it is.


Ok long as you're happy


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

a couple pictures from Saturday morning


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## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Nice work pal! I was going to start my own thread as I will be bulking in November but this thread is spot on. Tons of info.

Hopefully you will keep this updated 

My last bulk lead to big fat gains and after finally getting down to size again, really do not wanna put it on. Which seems similar to your goal too.

Good luck bud, also, if you can show the odd diet stats it would be much appreciated


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

zero2hero2013 said:


> guess i just want to pack on the weight steadily to keep my strength improving, im not that worried about gaining some fat as long my strength keep rising im happy. and currently it is.


I get what you're saying, but looking at your lifts I don't think you need to increase calories to increase your strength


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## zero2hero2013 (Jun 20, 2011)

managed a 160kg squat last night, and 140kg for 5, very surprised but very happy. although im very bloated and my belt is getting tighter... hmm lol. lets hope its the bloating. im eating around 3500 daily


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