# Cycle to go pro on!!!



## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok so next year I'm doing the Excalibur show in LA and then the USA nationals and I'm shooting to go ifbb pro with on 2 years or so here is current lay down cycle starting next year and leading up to show

Mass/cutting run

Test e:1500mg

Tren e:750mg 6months on then 2off

Mast e:600mg

HGH:4iu Post w/o Im on trained muscle 5days week

IGF-1 DES:100mcg Pre w/o pin bilaterally in forearms and calves 5days a week 45mins before gym

IGF-1 LR3:60mcg post w/o pin bilaterally forearms calves 5days a week

(note: take 50g protein 70g carbs 15 mins after pin or sooner if hypo occurs)(note:12 weeks on 6 weeks off)

Deca:1000mg switch to deca when off tren

Metformin:1000mg Ed 8weeks on 6 weeks off

B12: 1000mcg pin 2x week

Hcg:500iu week

Hmg:75iu 2x week

Caber:1mg a week

Letro:2.5 ever 3day

Oralls :

torem: 60mg Ed when on oralls

Anadrol:100mg Ed 8weeks on 6week off

Dbol:50mg Ed 8weeks on 6weeks off

Hawthorn berry: 1000mg Ed

Grape fruit seed extract: 375mg Ed

Saw palmetto: 320mg Ed

Ala:1000mg Ed

Milk thistle: 1000mg Ed

Anti hair loss soap:Ed

Cutting run:

test e: 1000mg lower to 500mg 4 weeks out

Mast e: 1000mg

Primo:600mg add last 6 weeks

Tren e: 750mg

HGH:4iu Ed

Hcg:500iu week stop 2 weeks out of show

Hmg:75iu 2x week stop 2 weeks out

Clen: ramp up to 120mcg use one month one month off quit last 2 weeks before show

Halo:40mg last 6weeks

Letro: 2.5mg Ed

Caber:1mg a week

Hawthorn berry: 1000mg Ed

Grape fruit seed extract: 375mg Ed

Metformin: 1000mg on refeed and cheat days and last day carb load with 500g of carbs

B12:1000mcg pin 2x week

Dyzide: 1/2 cap every 4 hours last 24hours diuretic

Saw palmetto: 320mg Ed

Ala:1000mg Ed

Milk thistle: 1000mg Ed

Anti hairloss Soap: Ed

(note: Keep water and sodium and potassium high till last day sip water through out and take in low sodium or none)


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## bumont (Aug 18, 2012)

You'll be a walking pharmacy. I don't know too much about contest prepping, but don't must people run short ester gear near the week of the comp such as tren acetate, test prop as "dry" gear. Are you using DNP in your prep?


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

No dnp and yah they do but I was thinking of keeping the pinning to minimum and using more letro to fight estro and also the diuretics will help flush water in the end but masteron e is still masteron it drys you out makes you hard no matter what ester it is it's still a DHT and tren is still tren it hardens u up no matter the ester I would understand not using things like deca dbol anadrol but compounds that are already dry I don't see why I can't use a long ester version also how would one go about using dnp for a prep just out of curiosity? Oh and thanks for posting


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh and i liked the bit about a walking pharmacy hahahaha


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

you got some pics? wondering what sort of physqieu you must have to be planning to be ifbb in 2 years, and your diet lay out?


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

holy **** thats a lotttttt a gear dude, have you ran that much before?

and how do you feel when your running that much?


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Yes currently running near that now 1g test week 750mg tren e week mast 600mg week just got off of dbol 100mg Ed for 6 weeks


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## Justin Cider (Jul 18, 2010)

zack amin said:


> you got some pics? wondering what sort of physqieu you must have to be planning to be ifbb in 2 years, and your diet lay out?


beat me to it


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Yah diet is done by ifbb pro Alex azarian I can lay it out if I would like and I don't have any recent pics but a few older ones one 286lbs right now but I have some of when I was 240ish


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## focus_and_win (May 12, 2012)

what about DIET to go pro on?can we see it?


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

Guns777 said:


> Yes currently running near that now 1g test week 750mg tren e week mast 600mg week just got off of dbol 100mg Ed for 6 weeks


fair play dude you must be a beast!

how does it feel to be on that much?

as above do you have any pics to compare to see if your going to become an ifbb pro?


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

The rear relaxed pose is around 250-265 little fatter there but grew the back a fair bit as can be seen


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

Guns777 said:


> Yah diet is done by ifbb pro Alex azarian I can lay it out if I would like and I don't have any recent pics but a few older ones one 286lbs right now but I have some of when I was 240ish
> View attachment 102333
> View attachment 102334


**** dude you are massive and you have an extra 46lbs on ya!! you must be huge.

congrats mate and good luck becoming pro!!


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Love the gear feels awesome I think of I took any higher of a dose of tren I would start shape shifting in to a werewolf and eating babies lol I makes me very Agro sometimes but I mostly feel happy which is nice considering I was expecting to feel like a ****ed of gorilla all the time


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks brotha I'll try I'm a fair bit taller then most ifbb pros so I have to be way bigger then them to compare so I don't look stretched out lol I'm 6ft3 I think it's been awhile since I got hight measures i could be 6ft4 I did a show back at 205lbs and it was natty and I got compared to a modern day up and coming Arnold the whole time lol cause I was tall and had big arms for that weight qualified for nationals but most of those natty shows are bunk anyways half those guys were juiced and I don't mind I just want a fair playing field so I'm opting for a NPC national qualifier next december 1st I'm gona go watch it this week end


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

Jesus christ....


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## QUEST (Sep 26, 2009)

massiveee .what the diet like bud.


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks bros and ill copy my diet from Alex later when I'm home have it in a email I'm on my phone an font want to sift through the plethora of emails I never delete lol but in short it's protein :600g Ed mostly of steak and fish and 2 protein shakes before and after gym carbs about the same right now consisting of some wheat breads but mostly things like brown rice which is a staple for me and some sweet potatoes and fats are at bout 200g some times more I'm not too worried about too much currently because I'm bulking and they all come from either my steak or fish or some natural

Peanut butter


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

have you done this cycle or are you going to do the cycle?

from your pictures this cycle will not turn you Pro unless you are talking in 4-5yrs??


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Bro I'm doing that cycle now well almost all of it and I'm adding in the rest in march and then have a full year till I do the national qualifier and then almost another year till the USA nationals and those pics were 40lbs ago or more so basically I'm about 2-3years away right now from my Goal which is what I'm shooting for


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Like I said im 286 now as I was 240 there so big change in fact I was up to 300 at one point but I was a little to bloated for my taste so I'm doing it more lean and dry now


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Guns777 said:


> Yah diet is done by ifbb pro Alex azarian I can lay it out if I would like and I don't have any recent pics but a few older ones one 286lbs right now but I have some of when I was 240ish
> View attachment 102333
> View attachment 102334


With all due respect mate your pics look photo shopped to me.

I may be wrong but the arms dont look right.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yes that's some ped list lol, you mension your prot+carbs incase of hypo but don't mension slin? And igf1 doesn't cause hypo....


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You must be pretty tall.


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## Omada (Dec 18, 2011)

Got to side with milky here that is a seriously funky looking picture. The background looks distorted but the arms are more in focus than most of the other body parts. Same with the rear shot as well. Come on fess up you tampered with the photos.......


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Guns777 said:


> Like I said im 286 now as I was 240 there so big change in fact I was up to 300 at one point but I was a little to bloated for my taste so I'm doing it more lean and dry now


i really don't want to **** on your parade mate but in my opinion based on more than 20years in the game and on stage you will not become a Pro this side of 5yrs if ever your genetics are just not there, weight is of no importance what so ever it is how you look, the nationals are a hard show and you just do not have the muscle belly or freaky muscle size naturally to become a Pro........what about your legs? quads, Hams, Calfs?? show us a picture of them as if they are not fukcing huge from every angle lower the gear and enjoy BB and competing.......

as i said i really do not want to come across harsh but i know Pro's both here and in the states and even in these pictures you just do not have it buddy.....but please prove me wrong....


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## Skinny Guy (Jul 24, 2011)

Ainti-hairloss soap?


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok so as far as igf I read servaral places that it can sometimes cause some people to become hypo at that dose so I'm not gona risk it and Cover my bases and as far as this stuff about shopping photos the only one that even has any tampering is the front shot and it's the side effect of a crapy phone effect I had to use to block out the face I would be more then happy to do a cropped pic from my computer latter to show you all not doing anything to try and make false pics I wanted real feed back for real goals what is the point of putting up altered pics to get that it wouldn't e real and I want real feed back and thank you all who have and as far as not looking genetically there I know a few pros myself who believe very strongly against your opinion and I will make it my life's work to prove you wrong but thank you for a legit post that shows your opinions I respect that I'll post more pics later as I have more on my computer


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Troll


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Legs are on par with the rest of me need more work but so does the rest of me as you have stated and I can say this I have seen pros on stage currently that don't have any where near the shape I have and in fact I couldn't believe that they actually where able to even go pro so I'm not to worried yet just cause I don't have ballon musculature like the top 10 but I do believe I can get there I have seen old shots of the top 10 guys and they didnt look like what u describe either at the time but they do now so we will see what I can attain in time and u may be right I MIT need 5 or more years but that is no matter to me I just have a plane and goal and I have to bend in the wind to get there


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Guns777 said:


> Ok so next year I'm doing the Excalibur show in LA and then the USA nationals and I'm shooting to go ifbb pro with on 2 years or so here is current lay down cycle starting next year and leading up to show
> 
> Mass/cutting run
> 
> ...


I'm not even going to bother commenting on the cutting run... pay me for this part....

I don't mean this badly, but I'm currently 235lb and 8.1% at 6' tall; I'm competing next year in a NABBA comp jsut for fun and to keep my wife company dieting really; i have no aspirations of being an IFBB pro....I'm 42.. i stopped training when i was 30... restarted at 38... gear again at 39, so the last 3 years, and I'm ahead of you..... that's why i said pay me for the comp prep!


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## Team1 (Apr 3, 2008)

good luck with your goals. Like @Pscarb sai it doesnt look like your genetics are there.

Get some up to date pics posted. just a few in the mirror would take 2 min.

Always makes me suspicious when people post old pics and say thet are much bigger now. sorry to doubt but its not the frst time


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

No pron guys I will do it today or tomorrow I dont want any doubt when I'm seeking help and thanks ausbuilt ur blunt but actually very helpful and I have always ready u never run oralls with out using ala and milk thistle forgive my ignorance I didn't know and have always done this and I will alter gear accordingly and u may have a deal I'll send u a pm for price and will do it  and yes about the soap just forgot to put the actual name when I was writing this down


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Guns777 said:


> Legs are on par with the rest of me need more work but so does the rest of me as you have stated and I can say this I have seen pros on stage currently that don't have any where near the shape I have and in fact I couldn't believe that they actually where able to even go pro so I'm not to worried yet just cause I don't have ballon musculature like the top 10 but I do believe I can get there I have seen old shots of the top 10 guys and they didnt look like what u describe either at the time but they do now so we will see what I can attain in time and u may be right I MIT need 5 or more years but that is no matter to me I just have a plane and goal and I have to bend in the wind to get there


Mate what shape are you talking about?

your triceps are underdeveloped

your lats do not flare from the front

you lack back thickness down the erectors

you have underdeveloped Abs (at 240lbs at your height you should be able to see them)

you lack thickness on the upper body

the fact you have not shown us a picture of your lower half speaks volumes to me......

again this might come across harsh and believe me i really do not want to but i do not see the point in saying "your massive and you will be a Pro" when i do not believe you will be.......

i am 5'5" tall and in the off season stand at 235+ i am on stage at 200lbs shredded and i will never ever be a Pro yet some say that i could be but i won't because like you i do not have the genetics to be one....

on another note can you put spaces between your sentences it makes it easier to read for us old guys


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## Machette (Oct 29, 2011)

Mate no disrespect but pscarbs said it all...

Just to summarise; lats, abs, thickness, tries look to small... You a big guy but at no means on pro level!

Again wish you the best in achieving your goal though!!!


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

I want to see 286lb pics...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Guns777 said:


> No pron guys I will do it today or tomorrow I dont want any doubt when I'm seeking help and thanks ausbuilt ur blunt but actually very helpful and I have always ready u never run oralls with out using ala and milk thistle forgive my ignorance I didn't know and have always done this and I will alter gear accordingly and u may have a deal I'll send u a pm for price and will do it  and yes about the soap just forgot to put the actual name when I was writing this down


Like PSCARB (we're the same age! LOL) I guess with old age, comes a bit of bluntness- saves time LOL

However, I also don't say stuff just for the sake of it, I hope that some of the stuff I say sinks in, and its why I provide references etc.

I actually LOVE the sport and the activity, and this forum in particular is something I enjoy; I'd advise/train people for free, as i have a well paid career, and this is not my business- BUT.. i've found people don't value free advice... and I don't want to waste my time helping someone in-depth who listens to 20 other people...

In comp prep, there's more than one way to skin a cat (bulking is the easiest thing to do); but you can't mix approaches to comp prep.....


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Lol sorry and I can easily flair my lats and as stated I need improvement but the pics are old. I will post new pics and by the fact that regardless of how it looks in pictures I'm big measured my underdeveloped arms yesterday and cold they were 21in frankly I think the only reason u won't be pro is because u don't think u can no disrespect intended I have seen people that were in there 40s go pro and like I said before they looked horrible genetically. The shape of their body was atrocious Based on the shape u describe u should be able to go pro in atleast some organization


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## ws0158 (Jun 23, 2010)

guns 777 post some posing routine pics


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

I know I'm not a pro level ...yet but I will be and I don't have a problem with bluntness. but I will not just agree that just cause none of you sees it yet I won't ever be pro because plain and simple you could all be wrong just as I could be wrong on if I will ever go pro but I'm not going to except that I wont ever be pro because if I did that I really will never be and if everyone did that then no one would ever go pro or strive for greatness


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Sure thing brotha will do


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Anyways this wasn't about whether any one thinks I can go pro or not it's about helping me get to where I want to go so the real point was to share any bit that MIT help me get there  and just for the record even though you all have totally got my goat and I think I can hear my heart beat lol I totalu respect all of you old dogs the most cause whether not I agree with everything u say u are all the most truly helpful I don't always need a feed full of fan boys I need more knowledge an you all have a very good stock pile of that


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Guns777 said:


> Lol sorry and I can easily flair my lats and as stated I need improvement but the pics are old. I will post new pics and by the fact that regardless of how it looks in pictures I'm big measured my underdeveloped arms yesterday and cold they were 21in frankly I think the only reason u won't be pro is because u don't think u can no disrespect intended I have seen people that were in there 40s go pro and like I said before they looked horrible genetically. The shape of their body was atrocious Based on the shape u describe u should be able to go pro in atleast some organization


hey, if you work your a$$ off, do some site shots/SEO protocols for lagging parts etc, you may get there.... I just think, like perhaps PSCARB, that it may take more than 2 years....


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

I can live and see that be a very possible reality its just a sort of goal of mine I purposely set my goals hight so I have to push harder


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Good luck with your goals mate..however thats a serious amount of gear for a physique that imo is way off pro level radar...sorry but you need come back down to earth on this one..unless you post up a recent WOW picture.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

If your in the states why sign up to a uk forum.

Surely you cud get the advice your after on an American forum.

Also you say you know several pros etc why not ask for their advice on your proposed cycle, or pay one of them to coach you.


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## QUEST (Sep 26, 2009)

you seem to have the right attitude guns ...good luck fella.. :thumbup1:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Guns777 said:


> Lol sorry and I can easily flair my lats and as stated I need improvement but the pics are old. I will post new pics and by the fact that regardless of how it looks in pictures I'm big measured my underdeveloped arms yesterday and cold they were 21in frankly I think the only reason u won't be pro is because u don't think u can no disrespect intended I have seen people that were in there 40s go pro and like I said before they looked horrible genetically. The shape of their body was atrocious Based on the shape u describe u should be able to go pro in atleast some organization


  i dont want to be a Pro as for many it is just a label, i am close friends with many Pro's these are IFBB Pro's so the same as you want to be and to be fair show me a competitor who has won a Pro card at the nationals in the last 10years with bad genetics.......weather you flare your lats or not it makes no difference you have not got the depth to the muscle in these or any pics, BUT lets say you are much different now so post up some new up to date pics of you at 280lbs+ along with leg shots and at least it will give you some respect but going from what i have read from your posts and the pics you have put up you will not turn Pro.



Guns777 said:


> I can live and see that be a very possible reality its just a sort of goal of mine I purposely set my goals hight so I have to push harder


why not set a goal of winning a show first? like a regional with that being said have you actually competed yet if so where and what did you place?


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## Sweat (Jun 24, 2012)

Had a bit of a shooting down here by the big boys mate, but if it is something you really want just need to reassess and extend your goal periods out.

http://opisina.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/6-rules-of-success-arnold-schwarzenegger/

These all make sense and I think you got a lot of rule number 3 already, never be afraid to fail, if you want something badly then go for it mate, but also be realistic with time scales.

Good luck with it all.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Guns777 said:


> Ok so as far as igf I read servaral places that it can sometimes cause some people to become hypo at that dose so I'm not gona risk it and Cover my bases and as far as this stuff about shopping photos the only one that even has any tampering is the front shot and it's the side effect of a crapy phone effect I had to use to block out the face I would be more then happy to do a cropped pic from my computer latter to show you all not doing anything to try and make false pics I wanted real feed back for real goals what is the point of putting up altered pics to get that it wouldn't e real and I want real feed back and thank you all who have and as far as not looking genetically there I know a few pros myself who believe very strongly against your opinion and I will make it my life's work to prove you wrong but thank you for a legit post that shows your opinions I respect that I'll post more pics later as I have more on my computer


that was really hard to read in one breath mate..

PUNCTUATION MOTHER FUKA, USE IT!! haha


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Sweat said:


> Had a bit of a shooting down here by the big boys mate, but if it is something you really want just need to reassess and extend your goal periods out.
> 
> http://opisina.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/6-rules-of-success-arnold-schwarzenegger/
> 
> ...


i am really not trying to put the guy down just be honest, i see no value in saying something i do not believe will happen? the forums are for open debate sometimes that debate ends up with the individual hearing something they might not want to hear?


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## Sweat (Jun 24, 2012)

Matt 1 said:


> that was really hard to read in one breath mate..
> 
> PUNCTUATION MOTHER FUKA, USE IT!! haha


How many MG/day do i take of this Punctuation thing you mention?


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Sweat said:


> How many MG/day do i take of this Punctuation thing you mention?


millions


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## Sweat (Jun 24, 2012)

Matt 1 said:


> millions


Sounds fvcking expensive and heard it can lead to side effects like using upper/lower case during writing, not willing to risk it. Will leave it for you big guys!


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Sweat said:


> Sounds fvcking expensive and heard it can lead to side effects like using upper/lower case during writing, not willing to risk it. Will leave it for you big guys!


wise you are.


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## Sweat (Jun 24, 2012)

Matt 1 said:


> wise you are.


That is an awesome picture, good find sir!!!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

My 1st ever inj of igf1 was measued out wrong 1st time using slin pins 1st time using peps I shot 400mcg (0.4mg) instead of 40mcg. Felt abit weird but nothing worrying and was defo no hypo lol, was quite a nice tingle actually lol my vision seemed to get brighter also as I looked at my pc screen.

But as you say its best to keep all angle covered just incase till you get the jist of it.


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Is this a serious post?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I never got hypo on IGF-1LR3

I do remember dieting on it and actually had a hard time losing weight.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

LittleChris said:


> Is this a serious post?


seriously shit, yes :whistling: :lol:


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

@Pscarb bro i had no idea your 5 ft5, thats fcukin amazing and an inspiration, im 5ft6 i do struggle to put on weight but i am getting there, but you at 5ft5 hats off to you mate, used to train at john hodgsons gym in rochdale where i live, he looked spot on for 5ft 4 athink he is


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

zack amin said:


> @Pscarb bro i had no idea your 5 ft5, thats fcukin amazing and an inspiration, im 5ft6 i do struggle to put on weight but i am getting there, but you at 5ft5 hats off to you mate, used to train at john hodgsons gym in rochdale where i live, he looked spot on for 5ft 4 athink he is


Where do you train now mate ?


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

zack amin said:


> @Pscarb bro i had no idea your 5 ft5, thats fcukin amazing and an inspiration, im 5ft6 i do struggle to put on weight but i am getting there, but you at 5ft5 hats off to you mate, used to train at john hodgsons gym in rochdale where i live, he looked spot on for 5ft 4 athink he is


5ft5 is the width of his arms mate, hes 10ft tall in real life, proper monster, eats baby unicorns and all sorts i heard


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Milky said:


> Where do you train now mate ?


train at gym'll fix it at the moment, just near town centre, used to train there as a kid so cheap and cheerfull and i know all the lads, my unkle and cousin still trainin at johns thinking to go back up there come the new year if he does me a good deal, him and paul were really nice lads, jstarr used to train at gymll fix it


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Matt 1 said:


> 5ft5 is the width of his arms mate, hes 10ft tall in real life, proper monster, eats baby unicorns and all sorts i heard


fcukin unicorns


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

zack amin said:


> train at gym'll fix it at the moment, just near town centre, used to train there as a kid so cheap and cheerfull and i know all the lads, my unkle and cousin still trainin at johns thinking to go back up there come the new year if he does me a good deal, him and paul were really nice lads, jstarr used to train at gymll fix it


Yeah jay trains at mine now mate £20 a month and well worth it IMO.


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks to those who have helped and been kinda and also blunt but immensely helpful and I could do that buy it will cost me the same for their services as it will to run this bloody cycle lol.

Also I hear what u are saying about being rational and setting smaller goals I just do both I have smaller goals and then I have big ones that some may think impossible but I'm still gona try so there is no point in debating that any further I have stated what I'm doing an u have stated what u think can we not progress past this point and through in something from your experiences helped I win a show and yes I have competed 80lbs ago and qualified for nationals for got 3rd in open and second in teen only lost to a guy who came late wasn't as big but was the most ripped guy i have ever seen and it was a natty show


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Milky said:


> Yeah jay trains at mine now mate £20 a month and well worth it IMO.


is it 20, didnt even realise thats top that might pop in and have a look around, a new mma gym opened in castleton just near johns thats 20 aswell i was training there for a few months thats pritty top mate, running track and army style jungle gym and the likes


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Guns777 said:


> Thanks to those who have helped and been kinda and also blunt but immensely helpful and I could do that buy it will cost me the same for their services as it will to run this bloody cycle lol.
> 
> Also I hear what u are saying about being rational and setting smaller goals I just do both I have smaller goals and then I have big ones that some may think impossible but I'm still gona try so there is no point in debating that any further I have stated what I'm doing an u have stated what u think can we not progress past this point and through in something from your experiences helped I win a show and yes I have competed 80lbs ago and qualified for nationals for got 3rd in open and second in teen only lost to a guy who came late wasn't as big but was the most ripped guy i have ever seen and it was a natty show


No one wants to rain on your parade mate and trust me you will get the UTMOST support on here the further you get to intergrate on the forum.

You have to realise tho having been on here for yrs we see lots of these threads that either turn into hoax's or never come to anything.

Good luck with it all tho, sincerely.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

zack amin said:


> is it 20, didnt even realise thats top that might pop in and have a look around, a new mma gym opened in castleton just near johns thats 20 aswell i was training there for a few months thats pritty top mate, running track and army style jungle gym and the likes


Check out the link on my sig mate.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

zack amin said:


> train at gym'll fix it at the moment, just near town centre, used to train there as a kid so cheap and cheerfull and i know all the lads, my unkle and cousin still trainin at johns thinking to go back up there come the new year if he does me a good deal, him and paul were really nice lads, jstarr used to train at gymll fix it


Unfortunate gym name at the moment lol, they thinking of changing it?


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> Unfortunate gym name at the moment lol, they thinking of changing it?


bwahahahahaha i know trust you to pick up on it, to be honest mate back in the 80's 90's a lad called paul i believe owned the place, then it got bought out or sold to a local powerlifter mussrat shah quite a well known fella, he never changed the name, then it passed hands to a few other lads, and is now owned by a young local lad so im assuming they will never change the name lol but apparently hes got a new place opening soon in the area which is supposed to be tip top, maybe hell transfer the name lol


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## greekgod (Sep 6, 2009)

I read and re read the juice Guns wants to run, fcuk me... that would put a rhino on its ass!!

if u for real abt wanting to go pro, u gotta think long term or even longer than that... nothing wrong with having a dream, hell 1 million kids in Brazil all wanna play for their country @ the world cup football... but to be honest from yr pics i see an average run of the mill bodybuilder with big inspirations, please feel free to prove me wrong and i eat my words.

i am a 46 year old athlete who came to bodybuilding via being a provincal level rugby player and i know my limitations, i compete at 80kg and on a good day if the other guys with good genetics dial it in i go home just out of the silverware, but if they fukc up i will take home silver,

i have had the honor of standing on stage at IFBB worlds next to some great athletes like Shahat Mabrouk from Egypt and some beasts from russia etc...

and u are so so disillusioned if u think u gona go PRO with yr present package...

GOOD LUCK...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Guns777 said:


> Thanks to those who have helped and been kinda and also blunt but immensely helpful and I could do that buy it will cost me the same for their services as it will to run this bloody cycle lol.
> 
> Also I hear what u are saying about being rational and setting smaller goals I just do both I have smaller goals and then I have big ones that some may think impossible but I'm still gona try so there is no point in debating that any further I have stated what I'm doing an u have stated what u think can we not progress past this point and through in something from your experiences helped I win a show and yes I have competed 80lbs ago and qualified for nationals for got 3rd in open and second in teen only lost to a guy who came late wasn't as big but was the most ripped guy i have ever seen and it was a natty show


glad you have taken my comments as they where meant.....

i set myself a goal's when i started competing....

winning my local show - achieved in 2004 (13yrs after first stepping on stage)

winning my class at regional level - achieved in 2005

winning my first overall - achieved in 2006

Placing top 6 in Britain - achieved in 2005

Placing top 3 in Britain - achieved in 2008

Placing top 6 in the World - achieved in 2012

Placing top 10 at the Universe achieved in 2012

my next goal would of been to win the Britain but i am now retired..........

my point is set yourself smaller goals and achieve these and as you do you will learn more about your body, the funny thing is i achieved the much harder achievements on less than a tenth of the gear i used before 2004........


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Very impressive that's a nice history shame u retired u should do a come back and win the Britain


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

zack amin said:


> @Pscarb bro i had no idea your 5 ft5, thats fcukin amazing and an inspiration, im 5ft6 i do struggle to put on weight but i am getting there, but you at 5ft5 hats off to you mate, used to train at john hodgsons gym in rochdale where i live, he looked spot on for 5ft 4 athink he is


thanks mate......if you struggle to put weight on you are not eating enough mate


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Guns777 said:


> Very impressive that's a nice history shame u retired u should do a come back and win the Britain


  yea well i have 3 kids a wife and a job that has me travelling a thousand miles a week and living in hotels that makes that goal one to far


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ahhh ok fun well guess what having a healthy loving family is a big goal accomplished for you and that speaks volumes of what kind of man you are so good job there that is a life prioritize the right way with family first


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## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

First of all I want your income! Haha.

Also are you running that straight or going to.cruise somwhere in there?? Sorry if you did state it and I just didnt read it.

Really interesting post though and I wish you the best of luck!

Little bit of info and all in my opinion of course but whenever you say.about going pro people have a heart attack trying to type as fast as they can saying why you wont go pro or whatever. Having said that UKM is by far the best board and I havent seen much of that on here. But if you believe you can amd dedicate yourself 100% then you probably will!

Ps: whats your age?


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Pscarb ..... Oh my god I just found ur site and bro those delts of yours blow my mind how old did u say u were? And the line up at that universe was good I saw a pic of a pose down and there is a guy in the back with back for days very nice


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks bro its all good I get it and I'm 21


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

And I know it's a possibility I have seen guys like me do it before so I'm gona shoot for it he is right I need to stair step better though but I'll give it a go for giggles  just like I planned


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh and I can barely afford this and only because my guy is discounting me cause he is a bro


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

Dont want kids??

I want kids baby on thr way best decision of my life, i alwahs kmew i wanted them so didnt go crazy on what available on the market never toucned gh or insulins or anything apart from tren and test and some dbol. even i ttained with a mr britain few years back who struggled to make a baby and finaly he did and quite competing straight away, therr went my dream of competing and best decisio i made, also i stopped growing 2-3 years ago no matter what, what u gonna do if that happens to you, morr gear, more gh, more food?? When i saw what u wrote i expected someone to look like mr britian or even pscarv but theres no real muscle maturity there let alone other thongs i.mean things

Good luck though got lose sometjing to gain someything right? Keep us informed and we will still supoort you, althougg my knowledgr is only limited all the best

Your young so lots of hurdles to cross yet in the mean time hope your getting bloods etc done inc chiros or a physio


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## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

Fairplay dude. Keep us on ukm updated whatever the outcome! I really hope you do turn pro though be a good story for you to tell  !

My goals are similar to yourself as in turn pro.

I never post pics though but I often train at Temple gym in birmingham and Dorian Yates said for my age (19) I had. Potential so that is all the.motivation I will ever need lol


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> winning my local show - achieved in 2004 (13yrs after first stepping on stage)


I remember that one, good weekend. Making me feel old now though...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

LittleChris said:


> Is this a serious post?


My igf1 post above your post or do you mean the thread? If you mean my post then yes it realy happened lol


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

There's a good video on youtube showing a few top pro's before aas and after, I will try and hunt it out and post on here 2moro, jay cutler for example to see him pre steroid looks about 14stone nothing realy, to him now is an unbelivable change. To look at him before you'd think noway can you be a every be pro.... But he did, and infact became mr O.


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks you are all good guys


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## robsam23 (May 15, 2006)

Why not put your pictures up? You seem to be avoiding it?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

But one things for certain.

You're young.

That's a huge advantage.

But it appears to me, You're in a hurry.

Be careful with what you wish for.

Just saying.


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok and thanks and not

Avoiding I don't have any and I'm at work in dirty coveralls and covered in bright yellow chemicals and I'm in a truck in the middle of a corn field


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Guns777 said:


> Ok and thanks and not
> 
> Avoiding I don't have any and I'm at work in dirty coveralls and covered in bright yellow chemicals and I'm in a truck in the middle of a corn field


Welcome to the Board man.

Good to see a fellow yank here.


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks brotha good to be here


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)




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## focus_and_win (May 12, 2012)

the thing is. we all act suprised, id love to see the cycles that russian lad is on and his mate from th gym, granted they have great genetics, but they would of banged in some serious drugs, lets not kid ourselves

if you want to hit the heights, more drugs will do this, if your willing to accept risk


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

focus_and_win said:


> the thing is. we all act suprised, id love to see the cycles that russian lad is on and his mate from th gym, granted they have great genetics, but they would of banged in some serious drugs, lets not kid ourselves
> 
> if you want to hit the heights, more drugs will do this, if your willing to accept risk


disagree, yes they will help but if you do not ave the genetics to grow the muscle you won't plenty have proven this on this and many other forums......

i read cycles on this and other forums totaling 3-4g of gear with 70+iu of GH per week plus other peptides yet the person in question does not look anything special.

my comments are made from experience guys i have used huge amounts in my many years in the sport and really got no where when you compare gear dose to results, the cycle posted in this thread will of course put on size but i do not believe for one second this guy will be a Pro....

to Guns can you answer my question please about if you have ever competed please because if you have not then sorry to say "No Chance" you will reach your goal within the next 5-10 yrs............reason i say this is you have no clue what you look like shredded or if you can actually achieve a shredded condition.

the picture above makes my point even more, to be fair mate your legs are ok but nothing special and you have no calfs to speak of i can only assume from the side you have no hamstring drop, sorry guys but you want to do well at the nationals this is all needed..........plus you are holding alot of bad weight you may be 286lbs but from what i see you can cancel approx 40-50lbs of that weight to get on stage at least and at your height of over 6ft standing on stage at 235-240 is to light unless you had deep muscle bellies......

my post i am sure will not please many but people should look at what he is wanting to achieve and then realise from the pictures he will not, @stone14 i have seen many pictures of Pro's at there first show but the time span is normally a decade if not more plus people like Jay they look still very good at there first show and you can see the genetics........just look at the pics of Heath at his first show he has muscle belly's, small waist, flared lats, sweeping legs, calf's etc........

as i said win your first show then move from there, on that subject i am not up on the qualification process for the states how do you get to the nationals what shows do you need to compete in to get there? when would your qualification show be?


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## focus_and_win (May 12, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> disagree, yes they will help but if you do not ave the genetics to grow the muscle you won't plenty have proven this on this and many other forums......
> 
> i read cycles on this and other forums totaling 3-4g of gear with 70+iu of GH per week plus other peptides yet the person in question does not look anything special.
> 
> ...


cant arque with that then mate, youve walked the walk so fair enough

question though mate, this isnt nit picking just intrested in your ideas

a man on 600mg test, nothing else

compared too

a man on 1g test,300 tren, 50mg dbol PD

everything being equal, how much more does the seciond man grow in your opionin?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> disagree, yes they will help but if you do not ave the genetics to grow the muscle you won't plenty have proven this on this and many other forums......
> 
> i read cycles on this and other forums totaling 3-4g of gear with 70+iu of GH per week plus other peptides yet the person in question does not look anything special.
> 
> ...


Yeh your right mate the jay before and after is adleast 15-20years gap possibly more.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

heres the vid but yeh defo a big time gap between the two, not sure if there all pre aas like the ronnie coleman 1 but still





 younger and older anyway lol


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i am really not trying to put the guy down just be honest, i see no value in saying something i do not believe will happen? the forums are for open debate sometimes that debate ends up with the individual hearing something they might not want to hear?


I do see your point, as its not fair to just lead someone on. But at the same time, reading your post felt like my sister telling me santa isnt real. Mad me sad. Felt crushed for him


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## QUEST (Sep 26, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> disagree, yes they will help but if you do not ave the genetics to grow the muscle you won't plenty have proven this on this and many other forums......
> 
> i read cycles on this and other forums totaling 3-4g of gear with 70+iu of GH per week plus other peptides yet the person in question does not look anything special.
> 
> ...


says this in post #67 scarb..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

focus_and_win said:


> cant arque with that then mate, youve walked the walk so fair enough
> 
> question though mate, this isnt nit picking just intrested in your ideas
> 
> ...


if all being equal the second cycle will gain more but there is a point where more is not better plus my point here is this guy no matter the amount he takes he will not be a Pro sorry if my bluntness has upset a few but it is the truth.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

LER said:


> says this in post #67 scarb..


Cheers mate I missed that post, it would be good to see some pictures of that show then this would give a much better idea on what is possible


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> Cheers mate I missed that post, it would be good to see some pictures of that show then this would give a much better idea on what is possible


x2 would be very interested to see these.


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## robsam23 (May 15, 2006)

That video proves that point about genetics. Look at Jay for example. The shape of his shoulders, v taper of his back, how many 15 yr olds would you see like that before they even started training!


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

He wasn't lifting at 15 but he was doing manual work on the farm from what I remember in his book. Not to suggest he doesn't have magical genes because of course he does but what we should remember is that having great physical genes is one thing and having great steroid response genes is another. I imagine the top top guys have the very best of both and then declining as you go down the imaginary roster.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

compare the following

Dave Palumbo

Phil Heath

one has genetics for muscle growth

one have used a lot of gear to get big

if you cannot see the difference you are blind....

guys for those that say genetics is not important or relevant you are fooling yourself and to be fair this is normally said by those who cannot gain or want to justify there drug use.....

i am 5'5" and am on stage at 200lbs shredded and i do not have the genetics to become a Pro this is a recent picture of me a week from the NABBA Universe....

as i have said it would be good to see a picture of guns at his last show as what you weigh in the off season means absolutely nothing it is how you LOOK on stage that counts


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> compare the following
> 
> Dave Palumbo
> 
> ...


you fawking BEAST!!!


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Cycles like this do my head in. A Person states all these drugs they are going to use but only ever uses half off them.

Fair dooze if your serious about it though.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> disagree, yes they will help but if you do not ave the genetics to grow the muscle you won't plenty have proven this on this and many other forums......
> 
> i read cycles on this and other forums totaling 3-4g of gear with 70+iu of GH per week plus other peptides yet the person in question does not look anything special.
> 
> my comments are made from experience guys i have used huge amounts in my many years in the sport and really got no where when you compare gear dose to results, the cycle posted in this thread will of course put on size but i do not believe for one second this guy will be a Pro....


I am one of the people who has been on 3-4g of AAS for the past 20months... I've transformed my physique from fat office f**Ker to muscular and trained, and I like the change, and more importantly so does my wife.

However, I have had Dorian say to me I've used more AAS than he did to prep for the Olympia....

I wish I could progress on less, its just when i do 1g/week... i make no progress....

So, it seems I need huge doses to be just average in BB terms; but for me that's OK, as I like what I see in the mirror daily, and I'm better than the average joe for my age (in my 40s; actually, am in better shape than many guys in their 20s!).

I'm no where near the BB that @Pscarb is, as I "lost" 8 years of progress when I stopped training for 8 years (he never stopped- consistency is as important as genetics), and I certainly will never turn pro... but I still enjoy the sport, and enjoy improving what I have....

That being said, Dorian has famously said that if others with better genetics worked as hard as him, he wouldn't have won...

This is an important point too- I thought I was training hard, then trained with Dorian, and was well embarrassed... lifted my game since..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> I am one of the people who has been on 3-4g of AAS for the past 20months... I've transformed my physique from fat office f**Ker to muscular and trained, and I like the change, and more importantly so does my wife.
> 
> However, I have had Dorian say to me I've used more AAS than he did to prep for the Olympia....
> 
> ...


i know of a few top amateurs who i know for a fact do not smash it in the gym nor are consistent with diet and training etc it makes me a little mad to see so much genetic potential go to waste when i have had to be consistent (apart from when i was paralyzed in 96) for 20+ years just to be considered a top amateur.......


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> I am one of the people who has been on 3-4g of AAS for the past 20months... I've transformed my physique from fat office f**Ker to muscular and trained, and I like the change, and more importantly so does my wife.
> 
> However, I have had Dorian say to me I've used more AAS than he did to prep for the Olympia....
> 
> ...


I love this....I remember reading that years ago and it's what motivates me more than any single other quote in BB'ing. That's as frank, fair and honest as it gets in self criticism and it doesn't get more qualified than Dorian.


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## Guns777 (Oct 22, 2012)

Yes I have competed I said that 3 times now I wonder if half my posts don't go through and I'll get better just wait it doesn't really matter if people think I can do it it only matters if I do and how bad I want it will determine if I get there or of I fall short but I need to start slower I get that


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

be good to see your stage condition. your a big guy as you said near beginning, early arnie size arms 

have fun with it all is all i will say!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I remember reading a study on guys that took steroids and didn't train, and some guys did train, they compared them and the guys that took steroids gained more muscle.

Remember some of the guys that have good genetics can take more gear and handle the sides.

I think my buddy that has been going for a Mr. USA for several times needed that to turn pro.

His name is Jesse Sabater and he has finished 2nd in the USA a couple of times but never got his pro card.

Here is his USA shots

http://contest.bodybuilding.com/gallery/contest/14301/contestant/8544/mode/jim/

He never made pro.


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

^ no disrespect but i am not suprised he isnt a pro


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

jake87 said:


> ^ no disrespect but i am not suprised he isnt a pro


Well, he is almost 50 years old and is losing to the younger guys.

One thing he did say was the best chemist seemed to win.


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

fair play, he looks about 35 in those pictures


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## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Well, he is almost 50 years old and is losing to the younger guys.
> 
> One thing he did say was the best chemist seemed to win.


If you look like that in your late 40's pro card or not that is amazing dedication and one hell of a physique


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## pottsyislash09 (Oct 29, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> compare the following
> 
> Dave Palumbo
> 
> ...


in reagrds to comparing the 2 mate, i can see what you mean,

phil looks far more pleasing to the eye from a bb stand point and you can tell he has the genetics

NO ****


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

pottsyislash09 said:


> in reagrds to comparing the 2 mate, i can see what you mean,
> 
> phil looks far more pleasing to the eye from a bb stand point and you can tell he has the genetics
> 
> NO ****


that is my point you can tell a physique that has limited genetics for the sport but been forced using high amounts of gear and one that has not.......i read all the time that all you need is lots of gear and you can turn Pro this is not the case yes many Pro's use high amounts but they have the genetics as well......joe average cannot make up for bad genetics with 7g of gear a week......imo


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## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> that is my point you can tell a physique that has limited genetics for the sport but been forced using high amounts of gear and one that has not.......i read all the time that all you need is lots of gear and you can turn Pro this is not the case yes many Pro's use high amounts but they have the genetics as well......joe average cannot make up for bad genetics with 7g of gear a week......imo


Bit of a silly question but you obviously know alot about the bosybuilding game. What in your opinion would you say make pro level genetics?


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## trapman (Nov 24, 2010)

Are you a pro now mate as been 2-3 years on ;-)


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## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

trapman said:


> Are you a pro now mate as been 2-3 years on ;-)


He won't respond to u-amateur


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