# Keto and refeeds, how often? And how to do it?



## Ripebear

This is for a friend, I'm eating carbs on my diet.

He is doing keto with around 50/50 Protein and fat, I can't remember the exact ratio but it's a good one he researched etc.

He is just curious about refeeds, he is around 14-16% bodyfat, and been doing keto refeeding every saturday so far, basically eating whatever he likes one day of the week.

How SHOULD he be doing his refeeds? How often? from start to end of keto?

Thanks


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## Guest

I'm doing Palumbos keto,so protein slightly higher and a few carbs from peanut butter/cashew nuts.

Now I'm doing 10 weeks and I had a refeed after 3 weeks and will have one week 7 also.

Think dutch Scott advocates no refeed so everyone is different.

My refeed consisted of about 750g of carbs of which around 400/450 would have been simple carbs.


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## Ripebear

Spawn of Haney said:


> I'm doing Palumbos keto,so protein slightly higher and a few carbs from peanut butter/cashew nuts.
> 
> Now I'm doing 10 weeks and I had a refeed after 3 weeks and will have one week 7 also.
> 
> Think dutch Scott advocates no refeed so everyone is different.
> 
> My refeed consisted of about 750g of carbs of which around 400/450 would have been simple carbs.


I think generally you never NEED a refeed, it's more for mental break?

I am running low carb about 100g a day, low fat around 50-60, and high protein 220'ish a day, but that ain't keto.

I did hear though when getting completely shredded a lot of people refeed sometimes twice a week ? But obviously a clean refeed comapred to eating rubbish


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## JANIKvonD

Ripebear said:


> This is for a friend, I'm eating carbs on my diet.
> 
> He is doing keto with around 50/50 Protein and fat, I can't remember the exact ratio but it's a good one he researched etc.
> 
> He is just curious about refeeds, he is around 14-16% bodyfat, and been doing keto refeeding every saturday so far, *basically eating whatever he likes one day of the week.*
> 
> How SHOULD he be doing his refeeds? How often? from start to end of keto?
> 
> Thanks


i used to carb up on a sunday (CKD) swap the fat & carb macro's round.


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## Gym1

JANIKvonD said:


> i used to carb up on a sunday (CKD) swap the fat & carb macro's round.


Do you use PWO carbs on a CKD mate? Or just on a carb up day?


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## ah24

Refeeds should be used when EARNED.

If you're fat, you don't need a refeed. Maybe eating something off plan will help you mentally, but physiologically you don't need it.

The further into your diet you get, the leaner you get - THEN there becomes a need to help pick back up the hormone leptin (regulates hunger & appetite).

I typically start clients on one every 14days, as they get leaner every 7 and then play it by ear. I ended up on one every 5 days when I last dieted.


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## JANIKvonD

Gym1 said:


> Do you use PWO carbs on a CKD mate? Or just on a carb up day?


just a 1day carb up mate. use whey only PWO.....infact protein alone PWO is enough to boost insulin levels high enough for maximum absobtion apparently.. @dtlv's the man to ask if interested


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## Gym1

ah24 said:


> Refeeds should be used when EARNED.
> 
> If you're fat, you don't need a refeed. Maybe eating something off plan will help you mentally, but physiologically you don't need it.
> 
> The further into your diet you get, the leaner you get - THEN there becomes a need to help pick back up the hormone leptin (regulates hunger & appetite).
> 
> I typically start clients on one every 14days, as they get leaner every 7 and then play it by ear. I ended up on one every 5 days when I last dieted.


I am in no way fat but guess I am not that lean as I cannot (and have never been able to) see my abs, even though the rest of my body is as slim as you like! Just a horrible flabby band around my waist!

I am running a kcal deficit on keto and train 2 x strength, 2 x intense circuits and 2 x light cardio per week. It will be 2 weeks on Tuesday on this diet and I planned to have a carb day the following Saturday (so nearly 3 weeks in total). I have however been using whey in my PWO shakes for the strength and circuit days.

I have noticed a drop in strength/endurance this week which i assumed was due to glycogen depletion. Should I just accept I will decrease strength/endurance during fat loss and keep to a 14 day refeed? I was looking forward to a weekly break from zero carbs :sad:


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## ah24

Gym1 said:


> I am in no way fat but guess I am not that lean as I cannot (and have never been able to) see my abs, even though the rest of my body is as slim as you like! Just a horrible flabby band around my waist!
> 
> I am running a kcal deficit on keto and train 2 x strength, 2 x intense circuits and 2 x light cardio per week. It will be 2 weeks on Tuesday on this diet and I planned to have a carb day the following Saturday (so nearly 3 weeks in total). I have however been using whey in my PWO shakes for the strength and circuit days.
> 
> I have noticed a drop in strength/endurance this week which i assumed was due to glycogen depletion. Should I just accept I will decrease strength/endurance during fat loss and keep to a 14 day refeed? I was looking forward to a weekly break from zero carbs :sad:


Impossible to say exactly what you should do without seeing you..

Just bear these 2 things in mind;

1) The higher someones BF%, the less well they handle carbohydrate. So having 'cheat meals' when not needed/earned is only going to have the OPPOSITE effect of what you want. All depends on how you sensitive you are to carbs..

2) Factor in whether you have a 'cheat' meal (i.e. sh1t), usually just an excuse to binge. Or whether you have a planned 'refeed'. For example, a girl I'm helping with her bikini show is on around 80-90g carbs a day, at the beginning she didn't have any cheat meals. She now has them every 7 days, where she goes up to 215g carbs..... But, still from her typical dietary sources (oats/sweet potato in her case). That's not to say she can't have a little crap, but it's not an all out binge like most people do.


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## Irishtoonfan

ah24 said:


> Impossible to say exactly what you should do without seeing you..
> 
> Just bear these 2 things in mind;
> 
> 1) The higher someones BF%, the less well they handle carbohydrate. So having 'cheat meals' when not needed/earned is only going to have the OPPOSITE effect of what you want. All depends on how you sensitive you are to carbs..
> 
> 2) Factor in whether you have a 'cheat' meal (i.e. sh1t), usually just an excuse to binge. Or whether you have a planned 'refeed'. For example, a girl I'm helping with her bikini show is on around 80-90g carbs a day, at the beginning she didn't have any cheat meals. She now has them every 7 days, where she goes up to 215g carbs..... But, still from her typical dietary sources (oats/sweet potato in her case). That's not to say she can't have a little crap, but it's not an all out binge like most people do.


Could you have a glance at this man. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/222881-keto-plan-thoughts.html Its a keto plan I drew up for myself though after reading this I think I may take on your advice about 14day refeeds. am currently carb cycling which is going well but I thought id like to speed things up and see how it goes. Currently on my carb cycle I think am still gaining muscle, but fat loss could be more. Here my journal if you want to have a look. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/221765-irishtoonfans-journey-back-injury.html


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## ah24

Irishtoonfan said:


> Could you have a glance at this man. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/222881-keto-plan-thoughts.html Its a keto plan I drew up for myself though after reading this I think I may take on your advice about 14day refeeds. am currently carb cycling which is going well but I thought id like to speed things up and see how it goes. Currently on my carb cycle I think am still gaining muscle, but fat loss could be more. Here my journal if you want to have a look. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/221765-irishtoonfans-journey-back-injury.html


Will reply briefly in your keto plan mate..


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## Irishtoonfan

ah24 said:


> Will reply briefly in your keto plan mate..


Cheers pal appreciate it, it never attracted much attention lol!


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## Gym1

ah24 said:


> Impossible to say exactly what you should do without seeing you..
> 
> Just bear these 2 things in mind;
> 
> 1) The higher someones BF%, the less well they handle carbohydrate. So having 'cheat meals' when not needed/earned is only going to have the OPPOSITE effect of what you want. All depends on how you sensitive you are to carbs..
> 
> 2) Factor in whether you have a 'cheat' meal (i.e. sh1t), usually just an excuse to binge. Or whether you have a planned 'refeed'. For example, a girl I'm helping with her bikini show is on around 80-90g carbs a day, at the beginning she didn't have any cheat meals. She now has them every 7 days, where she goes up to 215g carbs..... But, still from her typical dietary sources (oats/sweet potato in her case). That's not to say she can't have a little crap, but it's not an all out binge like most people do.


I will try to post up some pics of me if you're able offer an opinion, that would be much appreciated! I assumed that below 20g carbs per day and high intensity exersise is not maintaible for more than 2 weeks which is why people do refeeds/cheat days!! Interesting to learn that some don't use them at all and get on just fine. Out of interest, where are the muscles getting their glycogen from if theres not any carb in the diet? Is it purely ketones that are fuelling the excercise?

And how do I tell if I have 'earned' a carb up day? I feel like I have already lol!


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## Gym1

ah24 said:


> Impossible to say exactly what you should do without seeing you..
> 
> Just bear these 2 things in mind;
> 
> 1) The higher someones BF%, the less well they handle carbohydrate. So having 'cheat meals' when not needed/earned is only going to have the OPPOSITE effect of what you want. All depends on how you sensitive you are to carbs..
> 
> 2) Factor in whether you have a 'cheat' meal (i.e. sh1t), usually just an excuse to binge. Or whether you have a planned 'refeed'. For example, a girl I'm helping with her bikini show is on around 80-90g carbs a day, at the beginning she didn't have any cheat meals. She now has them every 7 days, where she goes up to 215g carbs..... But, still from her typical dietary sources (oats/sweet potato in her case). That's not to say she can't have a little crap, but it's not an all out binge like most people do.


Here are some pics taken today mate if you could spare a moment and give your opinion. Abs are all I care about, hence the keto diet. Mass can come later.


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## Gym1

ah24 said:


> Will reply briefly in your keto plan mate..


I'd appreciate your comment mate. Cheers! :thumbup1:


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