# AMA 3.0 Turbo-Charged ft El Chapo



## ghost.recon

Hey guys. Back with another AMA. Have been away and busy lately.

I'd like to introduce to you @ElChapo who will be part of AMA 3.0

El Chapo is a medical professional in the US that specialises as a endocrinology research nurse. He works alongside many various endocrine patients on a daily basis.

We go back a long way and he is my ONLY go to individual when I need a second opinion on performance enhancing drugs.

Fire away.


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## UK2USA

True effect of testosterone on rbc, hematocrit and cholesterol. AND effects of stating on aas use?

Really glad to see you back!


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## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> True effect of testosterone on rbc, hematocrit and cholesterol. AND effects of stating on aas use?
> 
> Really glad to see you back!


 There is a highly individual and genetic response to testosterone in regards to *Hematopoietic effects and changes in lipids. *

The only way to know how you are affected is with lab work. Note that this effect can take +6 months to take effect due to changes in gene expression via the androgen receptor for changes in hematocrit. For changes in lipid profile, this can happen in as little as 2-4 weeks.

Many can get away with supraphyisiological levels of testosterone and maintain HCT within normal limits, other have trouble keeping levels normal even with TRT.

In this scenario, donating blood will lower HCT by up to 3%.


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## ghost.recon

Glad to be back.

Every AAS to some extent will up-regulate erythropoiesis and thus alter your haematology panel. The rate at which this happens is very individual, we have seen blood work of TRT patients on TRT dosages have their haem panels go out of whack, where as in some AAS users only a minor elevation.

AAS user will alter cholesterol without a doubt, again the rate at which it does is the same.

Statins you mean?


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## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> Glad to be back.
> 
> Every AAS to some extent will up-regulate erythropoiesis and thus alter your haematology panel. The rate at which this happens is very individual, we have seen blood work of TRT patients on TRT dosages have their haem panels go out of whack, where as in some AAS users only a minor elevation.
> 
> AAS user will alter cholesterol without a doubt, again the rate at which it does is the same.
> 
> Statins you mean?


 Yes, sorry, will there be any negative effect on aas use while using statins to lower cholesterol?


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> There is a highly individual and genetic response to testosterone in regards to *Hematopoietic effects and changes in lipids. *
> 
> The only way to know how you are affected is with lab work. Note that this effect can take +6 months to take effect due to changes in gene expression via the androgen receptor for changes in hematocrit. For changes in lipid profile, this can happen in as little as 2-4 weeks.
> 
> Many can get away with supraphyisiological levels of testosterone and maintain HCT within normal limits, other have trouble keeping levels normal even with TRT.
> 
> In this scenario, donating blood will lower HCT by up to 3%.


 Thank you, I will likely give blood in the next few days. Other than that is there anything else that I can do while taking test? And what are your thoughts on low dose aspirin?


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## ElChapo

Hemapoetic changes will begin to take effect in 3 months on average, peaking after 6 months.

For lipids, you will begin to see a good amount of change in approximately 4 weeks, this too will peak in +6 months when gene expression is in full effect.

TRT doses of testosterone will not usually affect HDL in any meaningful way and tends to lower triglycerides as well. Higher doses and stronger androgens will sharply decrease HDL.


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## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> Thank you, I will likely give blood in the next few days. Other than that is there anything else that I can do while taking test? And what are your thoughts on low dose aspirin?


 Your levels would not warrant a recommendation for statins. Aspirin is a good addition to a heart health stack. In fact, aspirin originated from medicinal pine bark used back in the day.

I will always recommend regular, cardiovascular exercise, as this will keep the endothelium healthy and elastic, strengthen the heart, and increase HDL. Omega 3's are also very effective as is cialis which has been shown to reverse endothelial damage in research studies. A low dose of 2.5-5 mg daily will have you covered. In regards to exercise, the trick is to find an activity that you enjoy. If you feel like a hamster on the treadmill like i do, cardio sucks. Some good ones are boxing, mma, swimming, etc.

Is this a cruise or TRT dose? What is your protocol and your goals so i can better assist you?


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## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> Yes, sorry, will there be any negative effect on aas use while using statins to lower cholesterol?
> 
> View attachment 142542


 I personally do not like statins from a research perspective. It has been shown to have many off target effects such as muscle wasting ie myopathy. I'm sure you can decide if the use of them while on AAS is good or not.


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## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> I personally do not like statins from a research perspective. It has been shown to have many off target effects such as muscle wasting ie myopathy. I'm sure you can decide if the use of them while on AAS is good or not.


 Statins can cause damage to muscle cells as Ghost recon stated above, the effect is compounded if you are a carrier of the gene rs4149056 with C:C polymorphism. This will make you x 3.2 more likely to experience muscle wasting and damage from statin use.

More recent research is beginning to refute the common mantra that HLD/LDL is the end all marker for CVD. LDL particle size, intra-arterial inflammation and calcification of the arteries, etc. It's much more complex than previously stated.

Recall that in the 1800s-1900s people ate eggs, butter, steak etc. No one ever measured cholesterol profiles, but now we have an epidemic of heart disease and statins have not done much to stem the problem.


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## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> I personally do not like statins from a research perspective. It has been shown to have many off target effects such as muscle wasting ie myopathy. I'm sure you can decide if the use of them while on AAS is good or not.


 If you have more labs i would love to see them.


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> Your levels would not warrant a recommendation for statins. Aspirin is a good addition to a heart health stack. In fact, aspirin originated from medicinal pine bark used back in the day.
> 
> I will always recommend regular, cardiovascular exercise, as this will keep the endothelium healthy and elastic, strengthen the heart, and increase HDL. Omega 3's are also very effective as is cialis which has been shown to reverse endothelial damage in research studies. A low dose of 2.5-5 mg daily will have you covered. In regards to exercise, the trick is to find an activity that you enjoy. If you feel like a hamster on the treadmill like i do, cardio sucks. Some good ones are boxing, mma, swimming, etc.
> 
> Is this a cruise or TRT dose? What is your protocol and your goals so i can better assist you?


 I was on 500mgs Test E and 200mgs Deca per week with the goal of gaining muscle mass. My doc, who has me on trt of 100mgs Test every 2 weeks does not know I substitute that for the above. I came off everything for five weeks for labs he scheduled for me, the lab results are after the five week hiatus.


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## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> I personally do not like statins from a research perspective. It has been shown to have many off target effects such as muscle wasting ie myopathy. I'm sure you can decide if the use of them while on AAS is good or not.





UK2USA said:


> I was on 500mgs Test E and 200mgs Deca per week with the goal of gaining muscle mass. My doc, who has me on trt of 100mgs Test every 2 weeks does not know I substitute that for the above. I came off everything for five weeks for labs he scheduled for me, the lab results are after the five week hiatus.
> 
> View attachment 142546
> 
> 
> View attachment 142547


 HCT is definitely high. I would like to see that at 50% max.

How is your BP? How long do you plan on running this cycle?

Your cholesterol will come back down to normal in 4-8 weeks. HCT you will drop down by donating blood.


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## ghost.recon

Statins. A multi-million pound market that generates huge revenue for pharmaceutical companies.


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## St. Michael

Are you jacked to the gills? Link a pic please. I read a lot of your previous AMAs and they were great, very useful, and I'd be doubly impressed if you had the body of a Greek god


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> HCT is definitely high. I would like to see that at 50% max.
> 
> How is your BP? How long do you plan on running this cycle?
> 
> Your cholesterol will come back down to normal in 4-8 weeks. HCT you will drop down by donating blood.


 I have been off of everything for five weeks (specifically for the labs), I have been back on Test E 500mgs per week for just one week.

My BP has been a little elevated and my doc put me on Amlodipine 5mgs once per day. He also put me on Simvastatin 20mgs once per day. He does not know of my aas use and I'm sure he is treating the rise with standard protocol. The rest of my labs are here.


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## ghost.recon

St. Michael said:


> Are you jacked to the gills? Link a pic please. I read a lot of your previous AMAs and they were great, very useful, and I'd be doubly impressed if you had the body of a Greek god


 I like to remain anonymous on here. Ask @ElChapo how I look.


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## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I have been off of everything for five weeks (specifically for the labs), I have been back on Test E 500mgs per week for just one week.
> 
> My BP has been a little elevated and my doc put me on Amlodipine 5mgs once per day. He also put me on Simvastatin 20mgs once per day. He does not know of my aas use and I'm sure he is treating the rise with standard protocol. The rest of my labs are here.
> 
> View attachment 142550
> 
> 
> View attachment 142551
> 
> 
> View attachment 142553


 I'm glad you showed me the labs.

Your TSH indicates you suffer from subclinical hypothyroidism. Many are asymptomatic, it is however know to contribute to atherosclerosis and inflammation. Symptoms include fatigue, depression, feeling cold, trouble burning fat, facial puffiness.

Amlodipine is a fairly mild drug, do you remember your blood pressure reading?

If you are going to continue this cycle, start doing a regular cardio regimine, this will keep you healthy while you cycle. Don't worry about it limiting your muscle gains as the increased efficiency in your cardiovascular system will enhance your training by enhancing blood flow and oxygenation to the muscles and increase metabolic byproduct clearance (lactic acid, etc), just dont overdue it.


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## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> I like to remain anonymous on here. Ask @ElChapo how I look.


 We would be considered jacked by any standard.

I would post pictures, but US law is draconian when AAS comes into play and i value my occupation and anonymity too much.

It won't change the accuracy of our answers or the depth of the information provided herein


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## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> We would be considered jacked by any standard.
> 
> I would post pictures, but US law is draconian when AAS comes into play and i value my occupation and anonymity.


 OK I'll take your word for it, thank you.


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## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> OK I'll take your word for it, thank you.


 Even if we were pencil necks the data provided is accurate and backed by research and experience.

You're welcome brother, patient teaching is part of my occupation.


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> We would be considered jacked by any standard.
> 
> I would post pictures, but US law is draconian when AAS comes into play and i value my occupation and anonymity.


 Ghost had mentioned a private consultation (for a fee obviously) in a previous thread, possibly even after doing one of the gene tests (23 and me?). I have some other factors I would like your opinion on with regards to aas use, including age, medical history etc., are you guys still doing that? and if so, could you PM me details?

The low thyroid you refer to is the result of radiation therapy to my neck for cancer.


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## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> Even if we were pencil necks the data provided is accurate and backed by research and experience.
> 
> You're welcome brother, patient teaching is part of my occupation.


 I don't doubt it for a second! As I say, the last couple of threads were a great read. And I'm going to assume you're the owner of a top calibre physique too.


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## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> Ghost had mentioned a private consultation (for a fee obviously) in a previous thread, possibly even after doing one of the gene tests (23 and me?). I have some other factors I would like your opinion on with regards to aas use, including age, medical history etc., are you guys still doing that? and if so, could you PM me details?
> 
> The low thyroid you refer to is the result of radiation therapy to my neck for cancer.


 Are you currently on any thyroid replacement and do you have any symptoms?


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> Are you currently on any thyroid replacement and do you have any symptoms?


 I am on 0.88 mcrg of levothyroxine per day. I started it post radiation at .25, went .50, then .75 and a week ago to .88

I'm not overweight although am around 18-20 body fat at 6 feet and 180 pounds and not overly tired - I have 3 and 5 year old daughters who keep me busy - I am considerably older than most on here though so not full of teen spirit


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## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I am on 0.88 mcrg of levothyroxine per day. I started it post radiation at .25, went .50, then .75 and a week ago to .88
> 
> I'm not overweight although am around 18-20 body fat at 6 feet and 180 pounds and not overly tired - I have 3 and 5 year old daughters who keep me busy - I am considerably older than most on here though so not full of teen spirit


 Good, as long as you feel good that's what counts. Just note that that TSH reading is a sign that your body is asking for more thyroid hormone. The optimal TSH for someone on levothyroxine only is .7-1.5 but numbers don't matter as much as the patient's experience and well-being. Just keep an eye on it.


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## Pancake'

Question on expiration dates on pharma amps + orals. how long past expiration dates are they still g2g for use?

Assuming you both B&C/TRT, If you could go back in time, would you of just B&C from the get-go. thanks


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> Good, as long as you feel good that's what counts. Just note that that TSH reading is a sign that your body is asking for more thyroid hormone. The optimal TSH for someone on levothyroxine only is .7-1.5 but numbers don't matter as much as the patient's experience and well-being. Just keep an eye on it.


 Thank you, any info on the private consultations done post gene testing? Is that something Ghost or you are still doing?


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## Tricky

Can clen be used long term and still be effective. Long term I mean 8 weeks max at a dose of say 40-60mcg daily or what approach do you guys recommend.

Is it worth while to run growth at a low dose for health and well being benifits e.g. Improved sleep, recovery, skin and to aid with fat loss. Somthing like 3/4iu 3 times per week or 2iu per day?

Can pharma test be used long term at a dose of 250mg every 2 weeks again more so for the health benifits of improved recovery and to aid with fat loss and muscle growth without having to run any ancilary drugs.


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## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Question on expiration dates on pharma amps + orals. how long past expiration dates are they still g2g for use?
> 
> Assuming you both B&C/TRT, If you could go back in time, would you of just B&C from the get-go. thanks


 Oils will stay good for +5 years or more. As long as the stopper has not been penetrated previously, it will still be sterile. Tab/pills/dry meds will stay good for a decade. The expiration date is just there as a requirement. There will be no measurable difference in potency when stored in a cool, dry, place away from light exposure.

For blast & cruise, this depends on your baseline testosterone levels, physique goals, desire for kids, etc. A blast and cruise can be just healthy, if not more, than a cycle w/ PCT. PCT drugs are fairly toxic, nolvadex has been linked to neurotoxic sides and brain fog, a fairly common side effect in breast cancer patients. Clomid can cause permanent eye floaters.

Regardless, most people use PCT drugs without a problem. As long as your cruise dose is mild and/or close to "HRT" and all health parameters are kept in check, the health risk is quite small and can be beneficial if you are treating an issue of testosterone deficiency which can lead to metabolic syndrome, fatigue, weaker bones, depression, etc. If fertility is a concern, HCG @ 500-1,000 IU per week will perserve fertility and testicular volume.

Personally, i blast/cruise. I don't run HCG as i have no plan on having kids and testicular atrophy is minor for me even on tren. I have reached my lifetime physique goals so i have no reason to blast anymore. The way i see it, if i can keep my androgen levels at optimal levels for a benefit in work performance, cognition, sex, and sports, i will do it. One of the best decisions i ever made was to blast and cruise. Again, this is a personal decision and not one to be taken lightly. The improved energy and focus in work alone was enough to make it all worth it. Pinning with a 30 g 5/16th inch slin pin is literally painless, i don't feel a thing and look forward to pinning. I have a lifetime supply of testosterone enanthate raws, so i'm covered on that end. My doctor knows and supports my use and helps me keep track of everything. I can't deny that i am blessed.


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Can clen be used long term and still be effective. Long term I mean 8 weeks max at a dose of say 40-60mcg daily or what approach do you guys recommend.
> 
> Is it worth while to run growth at a low dose for health and well being benifits e.g. Improved sleep, recovery, skin and to aid with fat loss. Somthing like 3/4iu 3 times per week or 2iu per day?
> 
> Can pharma test be used long term at a dose of 250mg every 2 weeks again more so for the health benifits of improved recovery and to aid with fat loss and muscle growth without having to run any ancilary drugs.


 I HIGHLY recommend cycling different stimulants and fat burners to get around the downregulated cellular pathways that come with regular usage. You can cycle out clen for ephedrine, yohimbine, and even DNP. Clen and ephedrine work as beta adrenergic receptor agonist(activator). Beta receptors are the "gas pedal" for lipolysis AKA fat loss. They both have a similar mechanism of action.

Yohimbine is an alpha adrenergic 2 receptor antagonist(blocker). Alpha 2 receptors are the reason lower stomach/back/glute adipocytes are so tough to shrink. These receptors make the fat cells resistant to catecholamine(adrenaline/noradrenaline) induced lipolysis. That is why they are the last spots to get lean. I am a huge fan of yohimbine. The optimal dose is 0.2 mg per kg of bodyweight, taken on an empty stomach. This approach works best with intermittent fasting as food will nullify some of yohimbine's benefits.

DNP uses a completely different mechanism than the latter three, this one works at the mitochondrial level and basically makes the cells use energy inefficiently, thus making them waste a good amount of it as heat energy. Usual dose and conservative dosage is 250 mg daily of the powder.

By cycling these compounds, one does not let the body downregulate fat loss by cycling a different mechanism of action with each drug.


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## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> I HIGHLY recommend cycling different stimulants and fat burners to get around the downregulated cellular pathways that come with regular usage. You can cycle out clen for ephedrine, yohimbine, and even DNP. Clen and ephedrine work as beta adrenergic receptor agonist(activator). Beta receptors are the "gas pedal" for lipolysis AKA fat loss. They both have a similar mechanism of action.
> 
> Yohimbine is an alpha adrenergic 2 receptor antagonist(blocker). Alpha 2 receptors are the reason lower stomach/back/glute adipocytes are so tough to shrink. These receptors make the fat cells resistant to catecholamine(adrenaline/noradrenaline) induced lipolysis. That is why they are the last spots to get lean. I am a huge fan of yohimbine. The optimal dose is 0.2 mg per kg of bodyweight, taken on an empty stomach. This approach works best with intermittent fasting as food will nullify some of yohimbine's benefits.
> 
> DNP uses a completely different mechanism than the latter three, this one works at the mitochondrial level and basically makes the cells use energy inefficiently, thus making them waste a good amount of it as heat energy. Usual dose and conservative dosage is 250 mg daily of the powder.
> 
> By cycling these compounds, one does not let the body downregulate fat loss by cycling a different mechanism of action with each drug.


 Thanks great info

how long would one stay on each compound?

What dose for clen and eph?


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Can clen be used long term and still be effective. Long term I mean 8 weeks max at a dose of say 40-60mcg daily or what approach do you guys recommend.
> 
> Is it worth while to run growth at a low dose for health and well being benifits e.g. Improved sleep, recovery, skin and to aid with fat loss. Somthing like 3/4iu 3 times per week or 2iu per day?
> 
> Can pharma test be used long term at a dose of 250mg every 2 weeks again more so for the health benifits of improved recovery and to aid with fat loss and muscle growth without having to run any ancilary drugs.


 Optimal test dosages for HRT and health are always going to come down to individual responses. One man will reach +1,000 ng/dL total testosterone on 150 mg per week. Another will only hit 500 on that same exact dosage.

Individual responses to hormone injections come down to unique polymorphisms in steroid metabolism at the liver(CYP enzymes that metabolize drugs/hormones)(glucordination) level of enzymes, etc. These will effect the clearance rate, half-life, and pharmacological action of the hormone in question.

To answer the question, it may or may not be enough for you. Only blood work will tell. The optimal injection frequency for enanthate/cypionate esters is every 3 days to every 7 days. This will keep serum levels very stable for most people. However, those with low SHBG will have a decrease half life of testosterone and may need to split the dosage to twice a week or increase the once weekly dose.

In regards to the question about GH, 2 IU is already a full replacement dosage. Anything higher would be for performance/physique enhancing purposes. Some even get away with 1 IU daily, this is pharma of course.

In regards to the question of the need for ancillaries, i myself am a fan of running as little possible for health and convenience. Your degree of aromatization on ANY dose can be a concern, it all depends on your genes. Some people make a lot of estrogen with very little testosterone. Of course, the higher you go , the higher the risk of this happening. Blood work will tell all.


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## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> I HIGHLY recommend cycling different stimulants and fat burners to get around the downregulated cellular pathways that come with regular usage. You can cycle out clen for ephedrine, yohimbine, and even DNP. Clen and ephedrine work as beta adrenergic receptor agonist(activator). Beta receptors are the "gas pedal" for lipolysis AKA fat loss. They both have a similar mechanism of action.


 On the subject of clen sensitivity, is there such a thing as a non-responder? I've only tried clen once and not only did I feel nothing, I didn't lose fat/weight at the expected rate either. I went pretty high (160 iirc) and ended up getting a refund. Bunk product or was it me?


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## Tricky

St. Michael said:


> On the subject of clen sensitivity, is there such a thing as a non-responder? I've only tried clen once and not only did I feel nothing, I didn't lose fat/weight at the expected rate either. I went pretty high (160 iirc) and ended up getting a refund. Bunk product or was it me?


 If you didn't get the shakes or cramp up I say it was bunk


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Thanks great info
> 
> how long would one stay on each compound?
> 
> What dose for clen and eph?


 For clen, 40-140 mcg per day depending on tolerance and goals. This is very individual, some like myself can handle heavy doses of stimulant do to a genetic polymorphism in the monoamine oxidase enzyme and catechol-o-methyltransferase enzyme. These control adrenaline metabolism in the body and brain. Those with my version of the copy metabolize adrenaline x 10 more efficiently than normal. Some researchers call it The "warrior gene" due to enhanced resistance to stress.

For ephedrine sulfate, 25 mg every 8 hours with 200 mg of caffeine will do you right. It is a FANTASTIC pre-workout as it is a substrate for adrenaline. I love this stuff and it's an excellent appetite suppressant due to it's sympathomimetic effect( fight or flight response ; diminished hunger)


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## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> On the subject of clen sensitivity, is there such a thing as a non-responder? I've only tried clen once and not only did I feel nothing, I didn't lose fat/weight at the expected rate either. I went pretty high (160 iirc) and ended up getting a refund. Bunk product or was it me?


 If you have true pharmaceutical grade clenbuterol, there are those are highly resistant to the stimulant effect of the drug. You will STILL lose fat, however, you will lose the stimulant induced loss of calories that come from the higher heart rate and increase activity levels. Beta adrenergic agonism will still happen at the adipocyte level. I would say that if you don't have a particular tolerance to stimulants and you used such a high dosage, there is a chance of underdosing or false product. I cannot say for sure though. It's like calling tren fake when you don't have sides. Some people just respond differently to drugs.

This effect will also happen with chronic ephedrine usage, you will stop feeling the stimulant effect, however, it will still be effective in promoting fat loss. You can by pass this effect by cycling clen/EC stack with yohimbine.

Some will partake in the ECY stack, an extremely potent fat burner/pre-workout and stimulant, this will induced palpitation and panic attacks in sensitive individuals, so i only recommend it to those who have prior experience with ephedrine and yohimbine as standalone supplements.


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## ElChapo

ElChapo said:


> edit


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## Tricky

Thanks for the informative responses, much appreciated

which would yield better results in terms of fat loss, muscle growth, better recovery and general well being

150-250mg test per week long term say 12-18 months

12iu pharma growth 12-18 months


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## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Oils will stay good for +5 years or more. As long as the stopper has not been penetrated previously, it will still be sterile. Tab/pills/dry meds will stay good for a decade. The expiration date is just there as a requirement. There will be no measurable difference in potency when stored in a cool, dry, place away from light exposure.
> 
> For blast & cruise, this depends on your baseline testosterone levels, physique goals, desire for kids, etc. A blast and cruise can be just healthy, if not more, than a cycle w/ PCT. PCT drugs are fairly toxic, nolvadex has been linked to neurotoxic sides and brain fog, a fairly common side effect in breast cancer patients. Clomid can cause permanent eye floaters.
> 
> Regardless, most people use PCT drugs without a problem. As long as your cruise dose is mild and/or close to "HRT" and all health parameters are kept in check, the health risk is quite small and can be beneficial if you are treating an issue of testosterone deficiency which can lead to metabolic syndrome, fatigue, weaker bones, depression, etc. If fertility is a concern, HCG @ 500-1,000 IU per week will perserve fertility and testicular volume.
> 
> Personally, i blast/cruise. I don't run HCG as i have no plan on having kids and testicular atrophy is minor for me even on tren. I have reached my lifetime physique goals so i have no reason to blast anymore. The way i see it, if i can keep my androgen levels at optimal levels for a benefit in work performance, cognition, sex, and sports, i will do it. One of the best decisions i ever made was to blast and cruise. Again, this is a personal decision and not one to be taken lightly. The improved energy and focus in work alone was enough to make it all worth it. Pinning with a 30 g 5/16th inch slin pin is literally painless, i don't feel a thing and look forward to pinning. I have a lifetime supply of testosterone enanthate raws, so i'm covered on that end. My doctor knows and supports my use and helps me keep track of everything. I can't deny that i am blessed.


 Thank you, for your very helpful & informative post.

do you have any write ups, guides or articles anywhere? I'm strongly considering to B&C from the get-go, rather than to cycle, not even just for bodybuilding purposes, that would be the primarily main reason as to why, but just for similar reasons, as you listed yourself. I do however, have reasonably good genetics and considering to really capitalise on them, though I don't intend to push doses, I value my health. I want to reach strength goals prior first though, no point, when I know I can just optimise my diet and training more. I'm just unsure, how to really go about B&C, hence asking for a guide, as finding my optimum cruise dose, gaining access to private healthcare, healthcare costs, then bloodwork, A.I dosing, what to look for etc. it doesn't seem all 1 size shoe fits all and it's very individual. I think, I could do a lot with a few blasts of test tbh. then low additions of tren maybe. don't fancy being no guinea pig though or losing my hair. haha


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Thanks for the informative responses, much appreciated
> 
> which would yield better results in terms of fat loss, muscle growth, better recovery and general well being
> 
> 150-250mg test per week long term say 12-18 months
> 
> 12iu pharma growth 12-18 months


 Diet is 100%, but 12 IU growth is over kill for plain fat loss.

Going off of what you said above, i would recommend 300 mg of test E per week with E2 kept in a tight range of 15-42 pg/mL, this is the dosage where the androgenic effect of test gives a nice boost to fat loss, especially if E2 is kept in range.

3 iu's of GOOD human growth hormone will give a nice boost in fat loss. Too much GH can give some people water retention, individual and unique effect of course. The higher dosages are reserved for people seeking pure mass.


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## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Diet is 100%, but 12 IU growth is over kill for plain fat loss.
> 
> Going off of what you said above, i would recommend 300 mg of test E per week with E2 kept in a tight range of 15-42 pg/mL, this is the dosage where the androgenic effect of test gives a nice boost to fat loss, especially if E2 is kept in range.
> 
> 3 iu's of GOOD human growth hormone will give a nice boost in fat loss. Too much GH can give some people water retention, individual and unique effect of course. The higher dosages are reserved for people seeking pure mass.


 OK thanks it wasn't just for fat loss but to improve overall well being, recovery and aid muscle growth

would you need to run an AI from day one at 300mg test? If so what and how much

again thanks I'll stop with the questions soon and let someone else chime in

did you see my question about gyno in the other thread?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Thank you, for your very helpful & informative post.
> 
> do you have any write ups, guides or articles anywhere? I'm strongly considering to B&C from the get-go, rather than to cycle, not even just for bodybuilding purposes, that would be the primarily main reason as to why, but just for similar reasons, as you listed yourself. I do however, have reasonably good genetics and considering to really capitalise on them, though I don't intend to push doses, I value my health. I want to reach strength goals prior first though, no point, when I know I can just optimise my diet and training more. I'm just unsure, how to really go about B&C, hence asking for a guide, as finding my optimum cruise dose, gaining access to private healthcare, healthcare costs, then bloodwork, A.I dosing, what to look for etc. it doesn't seem all 1 size shoe fits all and it's very individual. I think, I could do a lot with a few blasts of test tbh. then low additions of tren maybe. don't fancy being no guinea pig though or losing my hair. haha


 Funny that you mention that, i have been invited to be a writer on some HRT/endocrine science sites/blogs in the past. I was also a moderator at excelmale (an excellent resource for HRT/TRT/Andrology/Endocrinology information) I'm not much into writing articles, so politely declined but i love to share data and knowledge so here i am.

The first thing i would before you touch anything, and even if you decide not to is get blood work. We want to know your baseline testosterone levels and what are working with. If you ever decide to cycle, you can gauge the extent of shutdown and recovery after PCT. There are many ways of tackling your goals, but things like dosages will depend mostly on your individual response to the hormones and what your goals are in terms of physique, sports performance, well-being etc. Someone concerned with sports performance and fertility as well as well being may want to skip on tren. A high TRT dose may be enough for what they need, but not enough for someone else.

Are you in the US or UK? I am a big proponent of lower dosage assuming you aren't looking to become a mass monster. They will take you very far with optimal diet and training and genetics always help


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> OK thanks it wasn't just for fat loss but to improve overall well being, recovery and aid muscle growth
> 
> would you need to run an AI from day one at 300mg test? If so what and how much
> 
> again thanks I'll stop with the questions soon and let someone else chime in
> 
> did you see my question about gyno in the other thread?


 300 mg of test E per week, injected IM every 7 days will have most guys around 70 pg/mL estradiol. This is higher than normal, but some feel good here, others will have bloat, high bp, acne, loss of libido/erections. Other still will have much higher or much lower e2 levels on 300 mg per week. The only way to find out is to try it yourself and test. It is smart to run a conservative dosage of arimidex/aromasin when first trying to find your optimal levels. I recommend 1 mg adex with your injection or split in .5 mg doses x 2 per week. This will have most guys at optimal levels or at worst low-normal levels.

300 mg test E with OPTIMAL estradiol and a little GH will make most people feel like a king. Higher levels are not always best for energy/wellbeing. Many will find that once you pass the 500 mg mark, libido and energy take a hit. Better for muscle doesn't mean better for performance/energy/well being. It's all individual.

Fire away brother, ask me anything you want.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Funny that you mention that, i have been invited to be a writer on some HRT/endocrine science sites/blogs in the past. I was also a moderator at excelmale (an excellent resource for HRT/TRT/Andrology/Endocrinology information) I'm not much into writing articles, so politely declined but i love to share data and knowledge so here i am.
> 
> The first thing i would before you touch anything, and even if you decide not to is get blood work. We want to know your baseline testosterone levels and what are working with. If you ever decide to cycle, you can gauge the extent of shutdown and recovery after PCT. There are many ways of tackling your goals, but things like dosages will depend mostly on your individual response to the hormones and what your goals are in terms of physique, sports performance, well-being etc. Someone concerned with sports performance and fertility as well as well being may want to skip on tren. A high TRT dose may be enough for what they need, but not enough for someone else.
> 
> Are you in the US or UK? I am a big proponent of lower dosage assuming you aren't looking to become a mass monster. They will take you very far with optimal diet and training and genetics always help


 Yes, I'm in UK. and that will be the first thing I pursue for certain. I'm well aware of the importance of bloodwork. I've often tried to pick skally's info, but it's like trying to draw blood from a stone, so I may check out the resource you mention. I'm considering https://www.23andme.com/en-gb/ prior, just to become aware and understand, predisposition to anything, that sort of thing. strokes have occurred in family. goals aren't to be no mass monster, don't need to be, small frame, w/tiny waist, I'd be seriously jacked at 180 - 200lbs around 8 - 9%, that's my long term goal, with good strength, just a classical bodybuilding physique really, stats of similar to zane. obviously I'll look fcuk all like him, I'd never suggest that, but what I'm saying is, that would be a lot of muscle for someone like me to carry. would you say it's possible with B&C Test/Tren? bulk with test on 300mg - 750mg tops, when I want to cut, Test/Tren? Thanks for your time and responses.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> 300 mg of test E per week, injected IM every 7 days will have most guys around 70 pg/mL estradiol. This is higher than normal, but some feel good here, others will have bloat, high bp, acne, loss of libido/erections. Other still will have much higher or much lower e2 levels on 300 mg per week. The only way to find out is to try it yourself and test. It is smart to run a conservative dosage of arimidex/aromasin when first trying to find your optimal levels. I recommend 1 mg adex with your injection or split in .5 mg doses x 2 per week. This will have most guys at optimal levels or at worst low-normal levels.
> 
> 300 mg test E with OPTIMAL estradiol and a little GH will make most people like a king. Higher levels are not always best for energy/wellbeing. Many will find that once you pass the 500 mg mark, libido and energy take a hit. Better for muscle doesn't mean better for performance/energy/well being. It's all individual.
> 
> Fire away brother, ask me anything you want.


 Thanks I haven't used steroids but I've been doing research and I've been respecting about running low dose long term to try build muscle whilst in a small kcal surplus say 300-500 kcals. I've no intention of running multiple compounds and many ancillaries along side.

When I do take the leap I would prefer to run pharma only which is why I've been considering pharma sust or test e at 250mg long term. I've read and been told Adex needs to be taken every other day due to half life at a dose of starting 0.5mg then others say at 250mg test I'm on without and AI. Also many reports say aromasin is superior and to use it at 12.5mg every other day


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> Thank you, any info on the private consultations done post gene testing? Is that something Ghost or you are still doing?


 We will do it pro bono as part of this AMA. Would you be happy for us to share and discuss particular genes/snps that we find interesting from your results?


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> We will do it pro bono as part of this AMA. Would you be happy for us to share and discuss particular genes/snps that we find interesting from your results?


 Not a problem, there is anonymity here anyway and if it's of interest why not. Would you like to PM me the protocol, what you would like me to do? I am also presuming you would need more detailed info about me?


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> Not a problem, there is anonymity here anyway and if it's of interest why not. Would you like to PM me the protocol, what you would like me to do? I am also presuming you would need more detailed info about me?


 FIrst get your 23andme testing done to get your own DNA sequenced then PM both @ElChapo and I in the same PM and he will guide you on how upload your gene array data, then we can discuss together your gene analysis. We both have different areas of expertise in terms of genetics, my background is more focused on oncology in which cancer itself is basically DNA gone batshit crazy.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Yes, I'm in UK. and that will be the first thing I pursue for certain. I'm well aware of the importance of bloodwork. I've often tried to pick skally's info, but it's like trying to draw blood from a stone, so I may check out the resource you mention. I'm considering https://www.23andme.com/en-gb/ prior, just to become aware and understand, predisposition to anything, that sort of thing. strokes have occurred in family. goals aren't to be no mass monster, don't need to be, small frame, w/tiny waist, I'd be seriously jacked at 180 - 200lbs around 8 - 9%, that's my long term goal, with good strength, just a classical bodybuilding physique really, stats of similar to zane. obviously I'll look fcuk all like him, I'd never suggest that, but what I'm saying is, that would be a lot of muscle for someone like me to carry. would you say it's possible with B&C Test/Tren? bulk with test on 300mg - 750mg tops, when I want to cut, Test/Tren? Thanks for your time and responses.


 That's a great goal, depending on your genetics, a nice base of 300 mg test with another anabolic+caloric surplus will do you good. When you cruise, give yourself 100-200 mg per week of test E or C to get your trough testosterone levels around 800-1,200. Keep e2 between 18-42 pg/mL. Never exceed an e2 of 70 pg/mL. Some will add low dose mast/tren/etc to their cruise. As long as BP, HR and bloods are acceptable, you can do this at your own risk.

I believe the UK offers free blood work clinics for AAS users, this is a resource you should tap into if its in your area.

I am a fan of low-moderate dose tren, winstrol, masteron and test. You can mix and match them for your goals and experiment to see what you like.

I feel amazing on tren, erections are steel, energy and mood are great. others feels like cancer. I love winstrol, strength amd dryness and a very cheap steroid, but it gives other glass joints. You won't know until you try.

I know Scally, he lost his MD license due to overprescribing test and deca for purposes other than HRT. He's still bitter about it.


----------



## ghost.recon

Tricky said:


> Thanks I haven't used steroids but I've been doing research and I've been respecting about running low dose long term to try build muscle whilst in a small kcal surplus say 300-500 kcals. I've no intention of running multiple compounds and many ancillaries along side.
> 
> When I do take the leap I would prefer to run pharma only which is why I've been considering pharma sust or test e at 250mg long term. I've read and been told Adex needs to be taken every other day due to half life at a dose of starting 0.5mg then others say at 250mg test I'm on without and AI. Also many reports say aromasin is superior and to use it at 12.5mg every other day


 From personal experience, having used all three aromatase inhibitors, Aromasin is my favourite on cycle with Letro being the least. However letro does have its uses such as during a gyno reversal protocol which we have spent a while developing and perfecting. You might have come across me talking about protocols on reversing gyno, credit and thanks to @ElChapo for this. Without diverging too much, blood work is very important pre-cycle and on cycle in order to determine the rate at which your body aromatises testosterone, there isn't a set dosage for everyone a specific dosages of aromatising androgens. Some will aromatise more aggressively than others, however what I have noticed is consistency in terms of PED use, the body is able to regulate gene expression when faced with different external factors for example consistent exposure to a stable dose of testosterone can cause the body to down regulate the expression of the gene that encodes for the aromatase enzyme but in order to observe this, long term stable exposure is required. This is commonly seen in lab experiments and in patients for example when exposed to long term dosages of chemotherapy, cells will up-regulate the expression of transporter proteins such as p-glycoprotein and MDT as a way of removing intracellular accumulation of cytotoxic drugs used in chemo.

What you will find with aromasin is due to its nature, over time you will notice you may require lower dosages to keep E2 levels within the same range.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> FIrst get your 23andme testing done to get your own DNA sequenced then PM both @ElChapo and I in the same PM and he will guide you on how upload your gene array data, then we can discuss together your gene analysis. We both have different areas of expertise in terms of genetics, my background is more focused on oncology in which cancer itself is basically DNA gone batshit crazy.


 ^I am a huge genetics/endocrinology/pharmacology nerd. I highly recommend 23andme for those who are into science, health and want to know more about themselves.. It is a service that will last you a lifetime as you discover more about your DNA.

You will even have access to knowledge of if you have a higher ratio of fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber, etc. Very cool stuff


----------



## ghost.recon

Starz said:


> Question on expiration dates on pharma amps + orals. how long past expiration dates are they still g2g for use?
> 
> Assuming you both B&C/TRT, If you could go back in time, would you of just B&C from the get-go. thanks


 @ElChapo's answer on exp. dates I completely agree, then again there are not many things I disagree with him on LOL

If I could go back in time yes I would do things differently. First I would have never come off cycle and simply remained on TRT instead of PCT, and secondly I would have blasted more sensibly and by that I mean choice and combination of compounds alongside dosages of each and the proper use of ancillaries. At the moment I am on a blast.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> From personal experience, having used all three aromatase inhibitors, Aromasin is my favourite on cycle with Letro being the least. However letro does have its uses such as during a gyno reversal protocol which we have spent a while developing and perfecting. You might have come across me talking about protocols on reversing gyno, credit and thanks to @ElChapo for this. Without diverging too much, blood work is very important pre-cycle and on cycle in order to determine the rate at which your body aromatises testosterone, there isn't a set dosage for everyone a specific dosages of aromatising androgens. Some will aromatise more aggressively than others, however what I have noticed is consistency in terms of PED use, the body is able to regulate gene expression when faced with different external factors for example consistent exposure to a stable dose of testosterone can cause the body to down regulate the expression of the gene that encodes for the aromatase enzyme but in order to observe this, long term stable exposure is required. This is commonly seen in lab experiments and in patients for example when exposed to long term dosages of chemotherapy, cells will up-regulate the expression of transporter proteins such as p-glycoprotein and MDT as a way of removing intracellular accumulation of cytotoxic drugs used in chemo.
> 
> What you will find with aromasin is due to its nature, over time you will notice you may require lower dosages to keep E2 levels within the same range.


 I will second ghost.recon on his recommendation for aromasin.

Aromasin is actually very similar in structure to a metabolite of testosterone. Basically, the aromatase enzyme is tricked into attaching itself to aromasin thinking its test, once this happens it is permanently deactivated. Aromasin is the least harsh on cholesterol with letrozole being the worst.

The reason letrozole nukes e2 so hard is two fold. Not only is it a more potent aromatase inhibitor on a mg per mg basis, it is extremely effective at shutting down all THREE estrogen isomers, that is E1, E2, and E3.

E2 concerns us most as it is the most potent estrogen isomer in the body.

Contrary to popular belief, aromasin can be dosed E3D as it is a permanent disabler of the enzyme, it will take a few days for more to be produced. The belief that it needs to be dosed daily turns a lot of people away from this great compound. It is also usually the more expensive and least available of three the common AIs.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> I will second ghost.recon on his recommendation for aromasin.
> 
> Aromasin is actually very similar in structure to a metabolite of testosterone. Basically, the aromatase enzyme is tricked into attaching itself to aromasin thinking its test, once this happens it is permanently deactivated. Aromasin is the least harsh on cholesterol with letrozole being the worst.
> 
> The reason letrozole nukes e2 so hard is two fold. Not only is it a more potent aromatase inhibitor on a mg per mg basis, it is extremely effective at shutting down all THREE estrogen isomers, that is E1, E2, and E3.
> 
> E2 concerns us most as it is the most potent estrogen isomer in the body.


 Aromasin and Arimidex seem to be able to regulate circulating serum levels of E2 however, Letrozole is capable of inhibiting INTRACELLULAR E2 along with its isoforms. It is that potent hence side effects are very noticable almost immediately within a few days such as joint pain (ER binding is important for bone physiology), brain fog (steroidal hormones are important for neurophysiology) etc.


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> FIrst get your 23andme testing done to get your own DNA sequenced then PM both @ElChapo and I in the same PM and he will guide you on how upload your gene array data, then we can discuss together your gene analysis. We both have different areas of expertise in terms of genetics, my background is more focused on oncology in which cancer itself is basically DNA gone batshit crazy.


 I will work on the 23andme first thing in the morning and will PM you guys when it's back. This is really awesome, thank you. You may remember from a previous thread I have had cancer and am now "clear" after chemo and radiation therapies.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> ^I am a huge genetics/endocrinology/pharmacology nerd. I highly recommend 23andme for those who are into science, health and want to know more about themselves.. It is a service that will last you a lifetime as you discover more about your DNA.
> 
> You will even have access to knowledge of if you have a higher ratio of fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber, etc. Very cool stuff


 As said to Ghost, thank you, I will work on the 23andme first thing in the morning and will PM you guys when I get it back. Thank you.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Thanks I haven't used steroids but I've been doing research and I've been respecting about running low dose long term to try build muscle whilst in a small kcal surplus say 300-500 kcals. I've no intention of running multiple compounds and many ancillaries along side.
> 
> When I do take the leap I would prefer to run pharma only which is why I've been considering pharma sust or test e at 250mg long term. I've read and been told Adex needs to be taken every other day due to half life at a dose of starting 0.5mg then others say at 250mg test I'm on without and AI. Also many reports say aromasin is superior and to use it at 12.5mg every other day


 You can do adex x 2 to x 1 per week. 1 mg is the standard dose and i would start with that until you know you dont need it.

250 mg will do you GREAT if you have a solid base of training and diet. I would bump to 300 as this is the dose where test really starts to shine for body composition and most will not have issues with water retention that are seen on 500 mg and above dosages.


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> I will work on the 23andme first thing in the morning and will PM you guys when it's back. This is really awesome, thank you. You may remember from a previous thread I have had cancer and am now "clear" after chemo and radiation therapies.


 I remember clearly, having spent a number of years in oncology research, it is nice to interact with a former cancer patient. The therapies you were placed on did not come out of thin air, scientists had spent their lives dedicating to the development of therapies which we use today one of the first to thank would be Marie Curie who was a pioneer of radiology which look how this has translated? We have controlled and optimised effective ways of administering radiotherapy with precision targeting, she died from her own research sadly she gave her life to the very science we use and take for granted everyday.


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> I remember clearly, having spent a number of years in oncology research, it is nice to interact with a former cancer patient. The therapies you were placed on did not come out of thin air, scientists had spent their lives dedicating to the development of therapies which we use today one of the first to thank would be Marie Curie who was a pioneer of radiology which look how this has translated? We have controlled and optimised effective ways of administering radiotherapy with precision targeting, she died from her own research sadly she gave her life to the very science we use and take for granted everyday.


 Still have my face mask. My treatment was at Moffitt Cancer Center at the U of South Florida campus, a large research facility.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> ^I am a huge genetics/endocrinology/pharmacology nerd. I highly recommend 23andme for those who are into science, health and want to know more about themselves.. It is a service that will last you a lifetime as you discover more about your DNA.
> 
> You will even have access to knowledge of if you have a higher ratio of fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber, etc. Very cool stuff


 This will also allow you to fine tune and optimise your training to exploit your muscle fibre composition. Excuse @ElChapo for his American spelling of FIBRE lmao.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> This will also allow you to fine tune and optimise your training to exploit your muscle fibre composition. Excuse @ElChapo for his American spelling of FIBRE lmao.


 :thumb


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> This will also allow you to fine tune and optimise your training to exploit your muscle fibre composition. Excuse @ElChapo for his American spelling of FIBRE lmao.


 I'm now on his side of the pond, been here since 1981, I speak and spell the same way


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I'm now on his side of the pond, been here since 1981, I speak and spell the same way


 If you are state side and ever have issues getting blood work from.your doc, discountedlabs site has really cheap blood work. You can get total test and free t for around 30 USD. They use labcorp. Some states dont allow private bloodwork though.


----------



## ghost.recon

Tricky said:


> Can clen be used long term and still be effective. Long term I mean 8 weeks max at a dose of say 40-60mcg daily or what approach do you guys recommend.
> 
> Is it worth while to run growth at a low dose for health and well being benifits e.g. Improved sleep, recovery, skin and to aid with fat loss. Somthing like 3/4iu 3 times per week or 2iu per day?
> 
> Can pharma test be used long term at a dose of 250mg every 2 weeks again more so for the health benifits of improved recovery and to aid with fat loss and muscle growth without having to run any ancilary drugs.


 In my opinion clen CAN be used long term without loss of efficacy. I will most likely get a lot of people challenging what I say due to the community being used to the typical on off use of clen.

Firstly, I have used clen for nearly a year straight at a considerate dose of 20-40mcg per day, I have also noticed with this better fat loss and inhibition of fat accumulation which is obvious during phases of eating absolute junk for few weeks straight.

Secondly, who uses a drug with exact mechanism of action but with a shorter half life? Asthmatics! I am personally one of them. We are often prescribed salbutamol/albuterol in the form of an inhaler to be used EVERYDAY as and when needed for bronchodilation. Surely, if this whole down-regulation or resistance garbage was true, surely use asthmatics would be dropping like flies due to asphyxia because suddenly our inhaler stopped working. Is this the case? No. This does not even need data to justify, it is a very obvious observation in respiratory medicine.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> That's a great goal, depending on your genetics, a nice base of 300 mg test with another anabolic+caloric surplus will do you good. When you cruise, give yourself 100-200 mg per week of test E or C to get your trough testosterone levels around 800-1,200. Keep e2 between 18-42 pg/mL. Never exceed an e2 of 70 pg/mL. Some will add low dose mast/tren/etc to their cruise. As long as BP, HR and bloods are acceptable, you can do this at your own risk.
> 
> I believe the UK offers free blood work clinics for AAS users, this is a resource you should tap into if its in your area.
> 
> I am a fan of low-moderate dose tren, winstrol, masteron and test. You can mix and match them for your goals and experiment to see what you like.
> 
> I feel amazing on tren, erections are steel, energy and mood are great. others feels like cancer. I love winstrol, strength amd dryness and a very cheap steroid, but it gives other glass joints. You won't know until you try.
> 
> I know Scally, he lost his MD license due to overprescribing test and deca for purposes other than HRT. He's still bitter about it.


 As far as genetics go, a picture describes a 1000 words, so I'll just have to PM you in future. I'm in good nick, as far as being natural goes and with a pump, I've got grain, slyly 3D looking lean physique, with good taper - clavicle/waist ratio, think my waist was around 26'' when I started training. hasn't increased much. overall, I'm still very light. a DNA test kit, from 23andme and bloodwork, is their anything else prior, that should be screened before hand?

With cruise dosing, should one start low at say 100mg and assess, then if it's not suited, bump 125, 150, 175, 200mg and just assess wellbeing and bloodwork to discover, what's optimum for myself individually? way I see it, cruising on minimum as possible, yet not losing muscle gained, feeling well and bloodwork, showing is fine, has got to yield less stress to the body? I just think it's excessive to be cruising on what's a cycle, if you're not carrying a real great deal of muscle? then again, probably won't carry 180lbs lean on less than 200mg? never mind 200, I couldn't say.

I don't know about blood work clinics, but I'm sure I could seek private healthcare. which I probably will, as I don't fancy aas on my medical records. I'm hoping to stick to Test, Test/Tren, maybe Test/Turinabol or something at a push, but ideally to play around with test and utilise test alone, for what I can, like I said, I think I could do well on the preached 500mg. future, the addition of peps may seem attractive, but likes of nandrolone seems lot of hassle, mast hard on hair, eq high RBC, winstrol nasty on joints. I don't see for sake of just experimenting with compounds for the sake of, let's see, what will I respond best to, when I know Tren is king for looking at best and you could bulk on Test alone, Test/Turinabol at a push.



ghost.recon said:


> @ElChapo's answer on exp. dates I completely agree, then again there are not many things I disagree with him on LOL
> 
> If I could go back in time yes I would do things differently. First I would have never come off cycle and simply remained on TRT instead of PCT, and secondly I would have blasted more sensibly and by that I mean choice and combination of compounds alongside dosages of each and the proper use of ancillaries. At the moment I am on a blast.


 That's good to know. can I ask, what is your current blast?


----------



## ghost.recon

Starz said:


> As far as genetics go, a picture describes a 1000 words, so I'll just have to PM you in future. I'm in good nick, as far as being natural goes and with a pump, I've got grain, slyly 3D looking lean physique, with good taper - clavicle/waist ratio, think my waist was around 26'' when I started training. hasn't increased much. overall, I'm still very light. a DNA test kit, from 23andme and bloodwork, is their anything else prior, that should be screened before hand?
> 
> With cruise dosing, should one start low at say 100mg and assess, then if it's not suited, bump 125, 150, 175, 200mg and just assess wellbeing and bloodwork to discover, what's optimum for myself individually? way I see it, cruising on minimum as possible, yet not losing muscle gained, feeling well and bloodwork, showing is fine, has got to yield less stress to the body? I just think it's excessive to be cruising on what's a cycle, if you're not carrying a real great deal of muscle? then again, probably won't carry 180lbs lean on less than 200mg? never mind 200, I couldn't say.
> 
> I don't know about blood work clinics, but I'm sure I could seek private healthcare. which I probably will, as I don't fancy aas on my medical records. I'm hoping to stick to Test, Test/Tren, maybe Test/Turinabol or something at a push, but ideally to play around with test and utilise test alone, for what I can, like I said, I think I could do well on the preached 500mg. future, the addition of peps may seem attractive, but likes of nandrolone seems lot of hassle, mast hard on hair, eq high RBC, winstrol nasty on joints. I don't see for sake of just experimenting with compounds for the sake of, let's see, what will I respond best to, when I know Tren is king for looking at best and you could bulk on Test alone, Test/Turinabol at a push.
> 
> That's good to know. can I ask, what is your current blast?


 My current blast is as follows per week:
150mg Testosterone Enanthate
300mg Trenbolone Enanthate
1200mg Boldenone Undecylenate
200mg Boldenone Cypionate
600mg Dihydroboldenone Cypionate


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> As far as genetics go, a picture describes a 1000 words, so I'll just have to PM you in future. I'm in good nick, as far as being natural goes and with a pump, I've got grain, slyly 3D looking lean physique, with good taper - clavicle/waist ratio, think my waist was around 26'' when I started training. hasn't increased much. overall, I'm still very light. a DNA test kit, from 23andme and bloodwork, is their anything else prior, that should be screened before hand?
> 
> With cruise dosing, should one start low at say 100mg and assess, then if it's not suited, bump 125, 150, 175, 200mg and just assess wellbeing and bloodwork to discover, what's optimum for myself individually? way I see it, cruising on minimum as possible, yet not losing muscle gained, feeling well and bloodwork, showing is fine, has got to yield less stress to the body? I just think it's excessive to be cruising on what's a cycle, if you're not carrying a real great deal of muscle? then again, probably won't carry 180lbs lean on less than 200mg? never mind 200, I couldn't say.
> 
> I don't know about blood work clinics, but I'm sure I could seek private healthcare. which I probably will, as I don't fancy aas on my medical records. I'm hoping to stick to Test, Test/Tren, maybe Test/Turinabol or something at a push, but ideally to play around with test and utilise test alone, for what I can, like I said, I think I could do well on the preached 500mg. future, the addition of peps may seem attractive, but likes of nandrolone seems lot of hassle, mast hard on hair, eq high RBC, winstrol nasty on joints. I don't see for sake of just experimenting with compounds for the sake of, let's see, what will I respond best to, when I know Tren is king for looking at best and you could bulk on Test alone, Test/Turinabol at a push.
> 
> That's good to know. can I ask, what is your current blast?


 It depends if your cruise is for purely "TRT" purposes or "performance" ie, a higher dose than TRT to support recovery, energy, etc while still maintaining health parameters in check. For TRT, a weekly test dosage of 100-200 mg will be required for most to get into the 700-1,200 ng/dL range. This will vary by genetics if the testosterone is dosed right.

For a performance cruise, we are looking at 250-300 mg. The draw back to this is that E2 may be a factor that needs to be controlled with ancillaries, but this can still be the case with a TRT dosage, it's just much more likely to be an issue on the higher dose. This is a dose that can produce muscle gains, increase recovery and fat loss while not giving most people issues with BP, water retention, cholesterol and HCT. Some are more sensitive than others to androgenic stimulation of erythropoiesis and lipids, so only time will tell if this works for you.

Both doses can maintain muscle and strength well depending on your diet and training. I recommend taking enough testosterone to get you to a trough of 700-1,000 ng/dL if you want to be a little more health conscious. If you want more performance while still being conservative about your health, you can cruise on 250-300 mg as long as you can keep everything optimized. Some men even do "TRT" this high while being monitored by their physician. There are worse things you can do for your health.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> My current blast is as follows per week:
> 150mg Testosterone Enanthate
> 300mg Trenbolone Enanthate
> 1200mg Boldenone Undecylenate
> 200mg Boldenone Cypionate
> 600mg Dihydroboldenone Cypionate


 @ghost.recon is a BIG boy. :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> In my opinion clen CAN be used long term without loss of efficacy. I will most likely get a lot of people challenging what I say due to the community being used to the typical on off use of clen.
> 
> Firstly, I have used clen for nearly a year straight at a considerate dose of 20-40mcg per day, I have also noticed with this better fat loss and inhibition of fat accumulation which is obvious during phases of eating absolute junk for few weeks straight.
> 
> Secondly, who uses a drug with exact mechanism of action but with a shorter half life? Asthmatics! I am personally one of them. We are often prescribed salbutamol/albuterol in the form of an inhaler to be used EVERYDAY as and when needed for bronchodilation. Surely, if this whole down-regulation or resistance garbage was true, surely use asthmatics would be dropping like flies due to asphyxia because suddenly our inhaler stopped working. Is this the case? No. This does not even need data to justify, it is a very obvious observation in respiratory medicine.


 This is due to beta adrenergic agonism that happens INDEPENDENT of the stimulant effect. Contrary to popular belief, not feeling it does not mean it's not working. If you wanna play it safe or miss that stimulant effect when you build a tolerance, cycle your fat burners. Clen/EC will work even with chronic use, but you will lose the stimulant effect.


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> I'm now on his side of the pond, been here since 1981, I speak and spell the same way


 Your heart is still British deep down you know UK-M is where it's all at


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> you can cruise on 250-300 mg as long as you can keep everything optimized.


 Great post. what are your thoughts on cruising on 500mg Test for a full year in terms of muscle gain. I've heard some taking this approach. Thanks


----------



## ghost.recon

Starz said:


> Great post. what are your thoughts on cruising on 500mg Test for a full year in terms of muscle gain. I've heard some taking this approach. Thanks


 In my opinion it is a little too much test to be cruising on. It is more of a cycle, providing your E2 is in check, blood work is fine etc you will gain muscle then what determines the quality of weight gain would be your diet and training will also facilitate the rate at which you gain muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Great post. what are your thoughts on cruising on 500mg Test for a full year in terms of muscle gain. I've heard some taking this approach. Thanks


 There are two schools of though. 1. talk about receptors needing a break etc. 2. AAS work best when used year round.

I am more inclined to go with #2 due to my own experiences and the science behind testosterone/AAS. Gene expression changes is what we see when take AAS, the reason why test E/C etc takes time to kick in is NOT because of serum doses. On your first injection you already have supraphysiological testosterone levels. It takes time and exposure to androgens for the cell to begin to turn on genes that will produce the effects that we are looking for(enhanced fat loss, protein synthesis, bone density, etc).

I believe the longer you are on, the better your results will be. Some of the effects of testosterone are not seen until 6-12 MONTHS after you start taking it. Libido changes tend to peak around 3 weeks and body composition changes take about 12 weeks to peak. Things like bone density and blood volume take +6 months to really take effect.

When you come off a cycle and PCT, you are turning off those genes again. The one benefit you do take from a cycle is that the muscle you gained is permanent. The myonuclei are always there, it's just that without the proper training, diet, and androgenic enviroment, they go dormant. This is where "muscle memory" happens. So cycling with PCT is not a complete waste, and taking long breaks won't eat away your precious muscle. Look at Kevin Levrone and others who take a long break, they blow back up like a sponge once the hormonal, nutritional environment and mechanical stimulus is added back in.

500 mg is a tad high for a cruise dose unless you are supporting freak/pro bb levels of mass. Most will do more than fine on 300 mg.

However, if you are asking about running a 12 month cycle at this dose, it can be done with great results, but you will want to keep BP, E2, HCT, etc in check because 12 months of high BP, E2 and HCT will put your health at greater risk, grant it, we know pro's are taking crazy dosages of harsher drugs for decades and they could be worse for wear which is one of the reason that i am not against very long cycle granted everything is monitored closely. This with the idea in mind that you have your diet and training in check and that the long/high dose cycle isn't a crutch.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> When you come off a cycle and PCT, you are turning off those genes again. The one benefit you do take from a cycle is that the muscle you gained is permanent. The myonuclei are always there, it's just that without the proper training, diet, and androgenic enviroment, they go dormant. This is where "muscle memory" happens.


 I demonstrate this everytime I decide to stop training for several months.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> I demonstrate this everytime I decide to stop training for several months.


 Muscle memory is my favorite thing about bodybuilding. The knowledge that all your hard work is there to stay is a great motivator. If you believe in the back of your head that if one day you stop training you will lose EVERYTHING, i would probably never keep at it.

It takes 3-4 weeks of no training for the "detraining" process to begin. This is when you will start seeing a loss in strength and shrinkage of muscle mass.

You will see a difference in size in as little as 2 weeks due to changes in glycogen storage in the muscle, this comes back rapidly when training resumes.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Muscle memory is my favorite thing about bodybuilding. The knowledge that all your hard work is there to stay is a great motivator. If you believe in the back of your head that if one day you stop training you will lose EVERYTHING, i would probably never keep at it.
> 
> It takes 3-4 weeks of no training for the "detraining" process to begin. This is when you will start seeing a loss in strength and shrinkage of muscle mass.
> 
> You will see a difference in size in as little as 2 weeks due to changes in glycogen storage in the muscle, this comes back rapidly when training resumes.


 The absence of training also means less consistent volumisation of skeletal muscle tissue from the "pump".


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> The absence of training also means less consistent volumisation of skeletal muscle tissue from the "pump".


 Exactly, training and AAS turn on genes that lead to an increase of glycogen storage and sarcoplasm in the muscle. This is why AAS users have that pumped look, even at lower bodyfat levels.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Exactly, training and AAS turn on genes that lead to an increase of glycogen storage and sarcoplasm in the muscle. This is why AAS users have that pumped look, even at lower bodyfat levels.


 I swear this just feels like a normal chat between you and I everyday, you would learn a lot just by reading our chat history lmao


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> I swear this just feels like a normal chat between you and I everyday, you would learn a lot just by reading our chat history lmao


 I can't even keep track of all the data anymore lmfao


----------



## Jordan08

@ghost.recon, On your blast, as you have mentioned 150Mg per week of Test-E, Is it with ester weight or without?

I have thought many times of starting a cycle but i am a bit worry about MPB. I thought of starting 250Mg Test-E E10D with 400Mg NPP per week. Your views on this cyle?.

What are you thoughts on managing DHT related issues on androgens?

Can you share more details on 23andme?. Looks interesting. What are the main benefits ?

Thanks


----------



## Quackerz

@ghost.recon

@ElChapo

You are stuck on an island together and told only the biggest (and leanest) of the two of you can live and return to civilisation after a years time training alone with each other. You have enough lifting equipment, food, water and a selection of any PED's you want, including AAS, slin, peptides and anything else you can think of. What would be your survival stack for the year?


----------



## Bull Terrier

I'm so glad you're back!

What is your opinion of Helios, i.e. injectable clen + yohimbine?

I'm hovering about 7-8%BF and have some very stubborn body fat in lower abs.

Is Helios useful for spot fat reduction for a guy like me? Is it a game changer or just mildly useful?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## John Boy 1985

3 weeks ago I finished blast of 450mg Test p and 350npp. I am now on hgh 3iu mon-Fri pharma and 150mg Test e trt cruise. I wanted to cut a bit of bf, is this enough to maintain muscle mass. I'm 13st 15%bf. Not a mass monster, more after lean athletic look. Calories will be dropped by no more than 500 a day through exercise.


----------



## Redser

@ElChapo you mentioned in the start of this that hct type increases usually kick in after 3rd month...

I had fairly high hct last cycle which was my 1st cycle, I was on test enth for 16 weeks.

I'm just wondering if I used test prop for 8 weeks would it lessen the chances of getting a high hct??

Also, and I promise it's my last question lol, dhb Aka 1-test cyp, I'm told it doesn't mess up hct and rbc like Boldenone does but I'm wondering what your opinion on that is.

Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated


----------



## swole troll

what's your thoughts on GH secreatagogues like GHRP's, GHRH's and Ibutamoren?


----------



## Wayno

In your opinions how harmful do you think NPP would be to reproductive health?

I plan on running it on my next cycle but my Mrs is keen on having a baby possibly early part of next year "maybe" lol

cheers guys

:thumbup1:


----------



## G-man99

Fertility - Is there a way to temporarily increase sperm count and mobility whilst on cycle?

I've been on blast/cruise for over 12 months and use HCG 1000iu weekly

Need to do a sperm check soon as Mrs is receiving endocrinology treatment for certain issues and i'm required to provide a sperm sample


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @ghost.recon, On your blast, as you have mentioned 150Mg per week of Test-E, Is it with ester weight or without?
> 
> I have thought many times of starting a cycle but i am a bit worry about MPB. I thought of starting 250Mg Test-E E10D with 400Mg NPP per week. Your views on this cyle?.
> 
> What are you thoughts on managing DHT related issues on androgens?
> 
> Can you share more details on 23andme?. Looks interesting. What are the main benefits ?
> 
> Thanks


 Not a bad cycle for the hair conscious individual. Do you have any recession yet and does it run in your family?

Nizoral is very effective at preventing hair loss, and will even thicken thinner hair, but it works best as prophylaxis. It works as well as rogaine but through a better mechanism It's a local androgen blocker, anti inflammatory, and anti-fungal.

I would never recommend the 5 alpha reductase drugs finasteride or dutasteride. These are some nasty drugs that can cause depression and ED. Not worth the risk although swear by them, some aint so lucky.

Nizoral works for me, use it daily for 5 minutes in the shower. Peak effect will take 6 months for hair thickness but its great stuff. Use prescription strength 2%. The OTC is trash. It kills dandruff which is a nice bonus and can double as an anti-acne shampoo for delts, chest, etc.

30-50 mg daily zinc can really make a difference in mild acne and excess sebum production as well as being protective of the prostate.

23andme is a service that analyzes your DNA through your spit. It gives you access to raw data where you can explore your DNA for genes encoding everything from muscle fiber type, resicilience to stress, empathy, cancer risk, alzheimrs etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> I'm so glad you're back!
> 
> What is your opinion of Helios, i.e. injectable clen + yohimbine?
> 
> I'm hovering about 7-8%BF and have some very stubborn body fat in lower abs.
> 
> Is Helios useful for spot fat reduction for a guy like me? Is it a game changer or just mildly useful?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 I am a huge fan of yohimbine, but have only dosed orally as this did more than enough for stubborn fat. Recall that yohimbine excels at burning stubborn fat via alpha adrenergic 2 antagonism.

Myself, i do fasted cardio 30 mins after yohimbine, the fasted cardio will further the cathcholamine response to yohimbine supplementation and enhance blood flow to the stubborn fat. This was always more than enough for me.

Some i trust swear by topical yohimbine, but no clue on injectable. Yohimbine is also a potent erection promoting drug and has been shown in studies to increase girth temporarily from engorgement.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> 3 weeks ago I finished blast of 450mg Test p and 350npp. I am now on hgh 3iu mon-Fri pharma and 150mg Test e trt cruise. I wanted to cut a bit of bf, is this enough to maintain muscle mass. I'm 13st 15%bf. Not a mass monster, more after lean athletic look. Calories will be dropped by no more than 500 a day through exercise.


 It will depend on two factors,

1. How your body responds to 150 mg of testosterone, is it putting you in the 1,000 ng/dL region or are you only hitting 500 ng/dL?

2.How much muscle you carry is another factor.

500 cal deficit is a nice conservative cut but i would bump to 300 mg test with AI. This will enhance lipolysis further and have a stronger muscle sparing effect. 300 mg will get most up there in serum T, some guys are only hitting average levels at 150 mg per week.

You could also run a cool 150/150 test/npp combo


----------



## ElChapo

Redser said:


> @ElChapo you mentioned in the start of this that hct type increases usually kick in after 3rd month...
> 
> I had fairly high hct last cycle which was my 1st cycle, I was on test enth for 16 weeks.
> 
> I'm just wondering if I used test prop for 8 weeks would it lessen the chances of getting a high hct??
> 
> Also, and I promise it's my last question lol, dhb Aka 1-test cyp, I'm told it doesn't mess up hct and rbc like Boldenone does but I'm wondering what your opinion on that is.
> 
> Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated


 Great question

Since prop kicks in faster with a much higher spike in T per injection, the effect will be similar to 16 weeks of test e in terms of physiological effects. The gene expression changes happen much faster with short esters.

If you are sensitive to rises in HCT i recommend regular donation, even when off cycle to keep your HCT in the mid to low end (Low-mid 40s) so when you blast, you have this reservoir for HCT. HCT in the 40s will not effect performance either, and the people who need blood win too.

DHB is something of a mystery at the moment. I cannot say for certain, however, DHT and even estradiol elevation has been linked to an increase risk of erythrocytosis (elevated hgb/hct).

DHB being a 5 alpha reduced metabolite boldenone, a hormone already notorious for its blood volumizing effect could possible cause this effect, but we wont know without lab work or studies and at the endof the day only susceptible individuals will be affected.


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> You are stuck on an island together and told only the biggest (and leanest) of the two of you can live and return to civilisation after a years time training alone with each other. You have enough lifting equipment, food, water and a selection of any PED's you want, including AAS, slin, peptides and anything else you can think of. What would be your survival stack for the year?


 Something like 300 mg test with AI, 700 mg winstrol and 1 gram of tren. This would make you strong as a juiced up ox, cut, lean and dry as smoked jerky. Would run 6 iu pharma GH with fast acting slin. 1 g daily tudca to protect the liver.

If this were a battle, i would taper off the tren down to 200 mg per week to spare cardio for the fight and up winny to a gram.

Tren/winstrol are my favorite compounds, they treat me well and make you very dry and very strong. No mood issues on tren and no glass joints or hair loss from winny for me.

I am sure @ghost.recon will be more creative with the stack , i'm a conservative guy when it comes to compounds. He's an encyclopedia :thumb


----------



## supertesty

hi guys and thanks a lot for this. @ElChapo @ghost.recon

1-Do you think EOD injection on long ester worth it about stable blood plasma vs scar tissue buildup ?

2-Do you think for someone who hit 1gr + test 1gr of EQ + 400mg of tren + 500mg of DHB for exemple, is necessary to progressive overload dosage or you can hit this cycle first week ? actually is it necessary to progresse build up dosage for someone who hit high dosage or he can start at high the 1st week

3-Your opinion on long vs short ester ?

4-Why test is test but on test prop my sex drive goes crazy even at low dosage compare to 800mg of test E for example ?

5-Your opinion about SEO ?

Thanks a LOT


----------



## Lifesizepenguin

This is all very interesting!

Thanks guys, im learning bucket loads.


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> In your opinions how harmful do you think NPP would be to reproductive health?
> 
> I plan on running it on my next cycle but my Mrs is keen on having a baby possibly early part of next year "maybe" lol
> 
> cheers guys
> 
> :thumbup1:


 Depends on your goals. Most guys dream physiques can be built on test alone.

The 19nors are notorious for shutting down spermatogenesis and endogenous testosterone production because they are also progestins. The brain senses androgen, progestin and estrogen which has a synergistic effect in turning off the HPTA.

There will always be a risk of infertility with ANY AAS, so know this before you run anything and make sure the risk is worth it to you. Run 1,000 IU hcg per week through the cycle to perserve fertility.

Many will still get their SO pregnant running tren and deca with no HCG. It's all individual.

You could do a test+dbol or winstrol cycle with HCG. Depending on your goals(bulk or cut). This stack will treat you very well.;

300-500 mg test with e2 control+50-100 mg dbol or winny. If you are prone to gyno dont run dbol. Run 250-500 mg tudca or use injectable, this will let you run these two beauties without taxing your liver on a longer cycle/blast.

Remember, diet and traing builds physiques, drugs facilitate the process.


----------



## MrBishi

1. What kind of bulking cycle would you personally recommend?

2. I ask because I'm currently cutting on 350mg Test Prop and 525mg Tren Ace per week (first Tren cycle) and feel great, no bad sides (insomnia/sweats/rage). And I'm tempted (because of the lack of sides) to run the tren/test long esters in my winter bulk. But then everyone loves Deca/Test for a bulk... So what you think, for me, Tren or try Deca?

3. I've been cycle and cruising for about 12 months now (600mg Test, 250mg Test, 600mg Test, 250mg Test, 350mg Test/535mg Tren). I was planning to PCT and take a few months off. I've no plans to have anymore kids (2 is plenty). You say you think cruising would be more healthy than PCT. How long into a cruise would be best to see if you where still healthy? Is it just the toxicity of the PCT drugs you don't like? I've only done PCT once and I did feel awful for the first week, blurred vision and lathargic.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> what's your thoughts on GH secreatagogues like GHRP's, GHRH's and Ibutamoren?


 No experience with them, never needed peptides, but if you have a working pituitary and are younger, they can be a cheaper alternative to GH. Chad mendes was caught with GHRP in the UFC.

It's going to depend on your individual response to the peptide and how much GH your pituitary will pump out in response vs a shot of GH.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Depends on your goals. Most guys dream physiques can be built on test alone.
> 
> The 19nors are notorious for shutting down spermatogenesis and endogenous testosterone production because they are also progestins. The brain senses androgen, progestin and estrogen which has a synergistic effect in turning off the HPTA.
> 
> There will always be a risk of infertility with ANY AAS, so know this before you run anything and make sure the risk is worth it to you. Run 1,000 IU hcg per week through the cycle to perserve fertility.
> 
> Many will still get their SO pregnant running tren and deca with no HCG. It's all individual.
> 
> You could do a test+dbol or winstrol cycle with HCG. Depending on your goals(bulk or cut). This stack will treat you very well.;
> 
> 300-500 mg test with e2 control+50-100 mg dbol or winny. If you are prone to gyno dont run dbol. Run 250-500 mg tudca or use injectable, this will let you run these two beauties without taxing your liver on a longer cycle/blast.
> 
> Remember, diet and traing builds physiques, drugs facilitate the process.


 *Many will still get their SO pregnant running tren and deca with no HCG. It's all individual.*

I can vouch for this, twice in fact


----------



## Lifesizepenguin

gymfreak2010 said:


> *Many will still get their SO pregnant running tren and deca with no HCG. It's all individual.*
> 
> I can vouch for this, twice in fact


 *slow clap*


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> hi guys and thanks a lot for this.
> 
> 1-Do you think EOD injection on long ester worth it about stable blood plasma vs scar tissue buildup ?
> 
> 2-Do you think for someone who hit 1gr + test 1gr of EQ + 400mg of tren + 500mg of DHB for exemple, is necessary to progressive overload dosage and you cant hit this cycle first week ? actually is it necessary to progresse build up dosage for someone who hit high dosage ?
> 
> 3-Your opinion on long vs short ester ?
> 
> 4-Why test is test but on test prop my sex drive goes crazy even at low dosage compare to 800mg of test E for example ?
> 
> 5-Your opinion about SEO ?
> 
> Thanks a LOT


 Very stable serum levels is not very important as the effect of a drug lasts longer than its time in serum.

Recall that GH has a VERY short half-life, it is gone in a few hours but we continue to see its benefits. This is due to gene expression.

When you drink coffee (adenosine antagonist) you will only feel the coffee as long as it is in serum, this is because caffeine's mechanism of action is through a NON-genomic effect, aka it does not use gene expression.

Still, I have a preference for short esters since discovering backfilling slin pins @ 30 g, 5/16 inch. These are a BEAUTY to pin, but you have to be fairly lean to hit IM. I am pretty impatient and a slow responder to long esters (6 weeks to kick in). Long esters are awesome for travel and taking a break from pinning. Short esters allow you to change doses on the fly and back out quick when a new compound does not treat you well.

To answer #2, the more you rely on the drugs, the quicker you will need to bump the dose to break a plateau. I see too many guys blasting grams of tren and they dont look like they lift, reddit is notorious for this issue. I believe once you absolutely max out gains on a certain dose, you can bump it to see new growth but guys are quick to do this too soon.

#4 Test prop treats me the same, it seems the higher peak (and i mean HIGH) serum test from prop has something to do with this. Even a low dose prop shot can send your total t to 5,000 for 12 hours. I definitely feel the shorter esters have more of a kick to them and it may be down to their rapid onset of peak levels/pharmacokinetics.

#5 Nothing against SEO, pretty controversial subject in terms of ethics but i believe people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies, barring self harm. If synthol helps them reach their goals and makes them happy then i'm for it. The inflammation from the shot and the volume of the oil will give temporary size increase and long term scarring may give a permament boost in size.


----------



## 31205

200mg test per week 125mg tren ace every other day. Clen plus t3. Anything else I should add? Got just under 8 weeks till my holiday.

@ghost.recon @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Fertility - Is there a way to temporarily increase sperm count and mobility whilst on cycle?
> 
> I've been on blast/cruise for over 12 months and use HCG 1000iu weekly
> 
> Need to do a sperm check soon as Mrs is receiving endocrinology treatment for certain issues and i'm required to provide a sperm sample


 HCG is the ticket. Clomid wont work as HPTA is shutdown with exogenous supplementation. Take 30-50 mg zinc daily, this will improve sperm quality and motility.

You were smart to run hcg from the get-go, i think you guys will be okay. Best of luck to you

avoid 19nors, trest and high doses of test around 6 months when you are trying to conceive.


----------



## bornagod

UK2USA said:


> I will work on the 23andme first thing in the morning and will PM you guys when it's back. This is really awesome, thank you. You may remember from a previous thread I have had cancer and am *now "clear" *after chemo and radiation therapies.


 Good to hear this fella. Such a horrible destructive disease


----------



## gymfreak2010

Lifesizepenguin said:


> *slow clap*


 downs ?


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> 200mg test per week 125mg tren ace every other day. Clen plus t3. Anything else I should add? Got just under 8 weeks till my holiday.
> 
> @ghost.recon @ElChapo


 Winny or mast will polish you nicely. Winny will dry you out more and make you stronger mg per mg, mast wont bother liver.

You can add oral yohimbine to tackle stubborn fat or 200 mg DNP daily the last 4 weeks. You will look like a god.


----------



## supertesty

thanks YOU A LOT @ElChapo

1-What do you think about lantus slin and milos sarcev slin protocol Pre + post wo. I already try humalog pre and even with load of carbs I always had 5 to 10min on slight hypo while I don't have on humulin-R.

2-What do you think about some studies about tren and brain damage ?

3-Do you think too much gear especially Tren is not counter productive if you dont eat even much more than on other cycle (caloric surplus ++). I didnt feel myself very "full" the last time I did 700mg of tren per week, I think on this dose you have to have a s**t load of carbs. I mean the metabolism become too fast no ? Or maybe I was too low on test and loose fullness. I would like to retry this tren dosage.

4-Last videos on enhanced ahtlere were interesting about whey isolate vs solid food. Tony huge like protein powder but coach trevor doesnt. Its too quick for him and you have to add fat to slow dogestion. Because the body cant absorbe much than 15gr of protein per hour and 40gr of whey is absorbed in 45min. So what about drinking 200gr of protein powder throught the day with some MCT oil in a bottle to always have aminos in blood.


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo forgot to ask last night

when running 250mg test long term eg 12 months. One shot per week. You mentioned armoasin tonne superior to Adex. What dose of aromasin to run with 250mg test and took how oftern. Is HCG required at 250mg test


----------



## arbffgadm100

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo forgot to ask last night
> 
> when running 250mg test long term eg 12 months. One shot per week. You mentioned armoasin tonne superior to Adex. What dose of aromasin to run with 250mg test and took how oftern. Is HCG required at 250mg test


 Get a blood test to see how you react.. medichecks do cheap E2 only bloods that are finger-pr**k.

Yes.


----------



## Tricky

arbffgadm100 said:


> Get a blood test to see how you react.. medichecks do cheap E2 only bloods that are finger-pr**k.
> 
> Yes.


 Getting full bloods done once I've got my cut complete around September to see if I do have low test and high e. Then I'm going to use pharma test at 250mg per week for a year or longer with a small surplus each week. I was discussing this approach last night with ghost recon and elchapo and just forgot to mention HCG and would like their professional opinion on if it's necessary at 250mg test


----------



## Redser

ElChapo said:


> Great question
> 
> Since prop kicks in faster with a much higher spike in T per injection, the effect will be similar to 16 weeks of test e in terms of physiological effects. The gene expression changes happen much faster with short esters.
> 
> If you are sensitive to rises in HCT i recommend regular donation, even when off cycle to keep your HCT in the mid to low end (Low-mid 40s) so when you blast, you have this reservoir for HCT. HCT in the 40s will not effect performance either, and the people who need blood win too.
> 
> DHB is something of a mystery at the moment. I cannot say for certain, however, DHT and even estradiol elevation has been linked to an increase risk of erythrocytosis (elevated hgb/hct).
> 
> DHB being a 5 alpha reduced metabolite boldenone, a hormone already notorious for its blood volumizing effect could possible cause this effect, but we wont know without lab work or studies and at the endof the day only susceptible individuals will be affected.


 Unfortunately as I have autoimmune idiopathic thrombocytopenia the blood donation centres have said no and I mentioned this to my gp who had advised I ask my haematologist to give me a letter to state I am fit for donation.

I'm waiting on a reply from them at present.

My platelets are always around 110,000 so.....

Thanks for the reply, think I'll avoid the dhb so lol.

Is there any more hct rbc friendly compound I could run with test? Is Mast my only option?


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> thanks YOU A LOT @ElChapo
> 
> 1-What do you think about lantus slin and milos sarcev slin protocol Pre + post wo. I already try humalog pre and even with load of carbs I always had 5 to 10min on slight hypo while I don't have on humulin-R.
> 
> 2-What do you think about some studies about tren and brain damage ?
> 
> 3-Do you think too much gear especially Tren is not counter productive if you dont eat even much more than on other cycle (caloric surplus ++). I didnt feel myself very "full" the last time I did 700mg of tren per week, I think on this dose you have to have a s**t load of carbs. I mean the metabolism become too fast no ? Or maybe I was too low on test and loose fullness. I would like to retry this tren dosage.
> 
> 4-Last videos on enhanced ahtlere were interesting about whey isolate vs solid food. Tony huge like protein powder but coach trevor doesnt. Its too quick for him and you have to add fat to slow dogestion. Because the body cant absorbe much than 15gr of protein per hour and 40gr of whey is absorbed in 45min. So what about drinking 200gr of protein powder throught the day with some MCT oil in a bottle to always have aminos in blood.


 Lantus is like test E to test suspension. It will keep your cells receptive to carbs and protein all day, similar effect to metformin, but much more potent. The fast insulin will blast nutrients into the muscles fast and hard, the lantus will keep them sensitive to carbs and protein all day.

The tren dose used in the mice studies that showed increase amyloid plaque aggregation would be equivalent to running 2 grams. This effect is compounded when there is no test in the mix as test, DHT and E2 are neurosteroids with important protective functions in the brain and nervous system. If you limit big tren blasts in terms of time on or run lower doses for longer, you will be fine. Just be smart and respect the compound, and always do your cardio.

In regards to the question about tren, calories, etc. It depends on your goals, tren is amazing for strength and nutrient repartioning, it doesnt take a lot of to perserve muscle on a cut and you are better off keeping the dose low-moderate on a bulk as it can interfere with appetite and digestion, and stacking with other compounds. I find 300 g+ carbs will usually restore the pumped look. Being flat is a question of how much glycogen is missing inside the muscle, upping carbs will fix this issue. Low test will make it so you cant get away with low carb as much and not look flat.

Your body can utilize a lot more than that per meal. It's a broscience myth. You could literally eat all your protein in one sitting and be fine. (i dont recommend this). Studies show peak protein synthesis is reached after ingestion of 40 grams of protein and this is in natty individuals without slin, gh, tren etc.

I myself like powders because i'm not a fan of eating HUGE amounts of meat. I'd rather eat more carbs, but its individual. You dont NEED protein powder. It's more for convenience. Don't overthink it, just eat, lift and grow.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo forgot to ask last night
> 
> when running 250mg test long term eg 12 months. One shot per week. You mentioned armoasin tonne superior to Adex. What dose of aromasin to run with 250mg test and took how oftern. Is HCG required at 250mg test


 12.5 mg to 25 mg twice a week will have most covered. Increase/decrease the dose depending on labwork/feel.


----------



## ElChapo

ElChapo said:


> 12.5 mg to 25 mg twice a week will have most covered. Increase/decrease the dose depending on labwork/feel.


 HCG will be required if fertility is a priority and testicular shrinkage is an issue. Many will not see significant shrinkage with lower doses of test, it depends on your response.


----------



## ElChapo

Redser said:


> Unfortunately as I have autoimmune idiopathic thrombocytopenia the blood donation centres have said no and I mentioned this to my gp who had advised I ask my haematologist to give me a letter to state I am fit for donation.
> 
> I'm waiting on a reply from them at present.
> 
> My platelets are always around 110,000 so.....
> 
> Thanks for the reply, think I'll avoid the dhb so lol.
> 
> Is there any more hct rbc friendly compound I could run with test? Is Mast my only option?


 Pretty much all androgens will promote hematopoietis. I would definitely find a way to get phlebotomy, any steroid will be putting your health at risk, including test

Finding a way to get a phlebotomy will open the doors to other compounds for you. Some people do it themselves, but i cannot recommend it unless you are a trained professional.


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo thanks a lot, sory but I got too many questions

1-So by your writes, lantus seems very powerfull in adidtion it has more affinity with igf1 bindind receptors. But read a lot of times by some guys like Palumbo or jordan peters, there is no point to use it, there is no need to have 24/7 slin in blood and expose you to a real diabetic risk on extended period. Plus, it will kill your slin sensitivity and risk of hypo during the night. Some guys say it was used in the 80 90's because it was the only available version of slin. What do you think about it ? Its it a powerful tool in addition to fast acting slin ?

2-What do you think about mixing test esters for example 750mg of testE 750mg of sust or testE+prop whole the cycle ?

3-Do tyou think high dose hgh is a gamer changer in terms of building musclemass ?

4-What's should be your slin protocol if you have to make one ?

5-Your fav campounds to use and those you think it doesnt worth to use it

MANY MANY THANKS


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Winny or mast will polish you nicely. Winny will dry you out more and make you stronger mg per mg, mast wont bother liver.
> 
> You can add oral yohimbine to tackle stubborn fat or 200 mg DNP daily the last 4 weeks. You will look like a god.


 Is yohimbine available at supplement shops or is their version shite?


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Is yohimbine available at supplement shops or is their version shite?


 It is available OTC but you need to make sure you buy YOHIMBINE and not YOHIMBE.

Yohimbe is the tree bark, yohimbine HCl is the purified alkaloid from the bark that gives us that potent lipolytic effect.

By law, capsules can only contain about 2 mg. Similar to the ban on ephedrine in the USA after people abused hydroxycut and had heart attacks.

You can take a bunch of capsules or buy bulk powder. You will have to measure it to the mg as it is VERY potent. 20-30 mg is the max you should take per day and that 30 mg dose will give many panic attacks and heart palpitations. You only need .2 mg per kg of bodyweight.


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> Depends on your goals. Most guys dream physiques can be built on test alone.
> 
> The 19nors are notorious for shutting down spermatogenesis and endogenous testosterone production because they are also progestins. The brain senses androgen, progestin and estrogen which has a synergistic effect in turning off the HPTA.
> 
> There will always be a risk of infertility with ANY AAS, so know this before you run anything and make sure the risk is worth it to you. Run 1,000 IU hcg per week through the cycle to perserve fertility.
> 
> Many will still get their SO pregnant running tren and deca with no HCG. It's all individual.
> 
> You could do a test+dbol or winstrol cycle with HCG. Depending on your goals(bulk or cut). This stack will treat you very well.;
> 
> 300-500 mg test with e2 control+50-100 mg dbol or winny. If you are prone to gyno dont run dbol. Run 250-500 mg tudca or use injectable, this will let you run these two beauties without taxing your liver on a longer cycle/blast.
> 
> Remember, diet and traing builds physiques, drugs facilitate the process.


 Thanks for the response and certainly food for thought, winny could be an option so when you say "longer cycle" how many wks would you say with the protection of tudca?......much appreciated may well save the 19nors for another time


----------



## ghost.recon

sen said:


> 200mg test per week 125mg tren ace every other day. Clen plus t3. Anything else I should add? Got just under 8 weeks till my holiday.
> 
> @ghost.recon @ElChapo


 Could add an androgenic such as masteron propionate or methyl-tren. Depending on how you respond, generally speaking mtren can bind very strongly to adipocytes and help facilitate lipolysis ie fat loss, I have cruised on low dose test and mtren before with minimal elevations in liver values and have maintained decent condition with very minimal fat gain and some fat loss noticed too.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo thanks a lot, sory but I got too many questions
> 
> 1-So by your writes, lantus seems very powerfull in adidtion it has more affinity with igf1 bindind receptors. But read a lot of times by some guys like Palumbo or jordan peters, there is no point to use it, there is no need to have 24/7 slin in blood and expose you to a real diabetic risk on extended period. Plus, it will kill your slin sensitivity and risk of hypo during the night. Some guys say it was used in the 80 90's because it was the only available version of slin. What do you think about it ? Its it a powerful tool in addition to fast acting slin ?
> 
> 2-What do you think about mixing test esters for example 750mg of testE 750mg of sust or testE+prop whole the cycle ?
> 
> 3-Do tyou think high dose hgh is a gamer changer in terms of building musclemass ?
> 
> 4-What's should be your slin protocol if you have to make one ?
> 
> 5-Your fav campounds to use and those you think it doesnt worth to use it
> 
> MANY MANY THANKS


 1# the concensus is that the risk of developing diabetes from insulin use is extremely minimal, unless you have a very strong genetic disposition, which would likely make you insulin dependent eventually anyways. If you are eating many meals a day, a morning dose of lantus will prevent the risk of hypoglycemia during sleep and sensitize your cells to nutrients all day. Just avoid dosing lantus at bedtime, if you go hypo during the day, you can have a snack. Always carry around your favorite candy with you in case this happens and make sure you own a glucometer.

#2 I like the stability and simplicity of running one ester at a time, we can control the variable of peaks and troughs. If we run into an issue such as e2, it will be much easier to manage when we know the pharmacokinetics of the compound. I think people really overcomplicate things sometimes. It's less energy being diverted into training and nutrition over little things that won't make a difference at the end of the day.

#3 HGH/Slin opens the door to mass. Most gentlemen training to look good naked/aesthetic will never need to tap into these two compounds. Not that a low dose of both wouldn't hurt for someone not looking for freak mass.

#4 4-12 iu rapid acting insulin with meals, standard protocol. Keep it simple, let diet and training do the rest. You can assess your individual tolerance and start low. Make sure each meal is carb rich and time these around your workouts. A protein shake with your favorite cereal post-workout is an amazing anabolic/insulin/nutrient bomb. Keep fat LOW when using insulin as adipocytes will also have enhanced nutrient uptake.

#5 Low dose test for physiology, you will find that 300 and 600 mg of test have almost identical effects on IGF-1 levels with slight increase in mass at 600 mg. 300 mg will saturate receptors well for most people. If you are a mass freak or powerlifter, you may like high dosed test.

Winstrol is cheap and a beauty of power and aesthetics. It makes you strong and dry and pretty. It is very versatile. It will keep you strong and dry on a cut, and build dry tissue and strength on a bulk. This compound is used in medicine to reduce water retention and edema in people with hereditary angioedema and other conditions that affect circulation. It works by inhibiting a compound called fibrinogen in the blood. That should tell you how effective it is at dropping water. Also has bone building effects. Some will find they get joint pain on this med, make sure your vitamin D levels are high as vitamin d deficiency will lead to pain when running winny/letrozole. If you dont suffer from joint pain or hair loss, you will love this compound.

Tren is similar in terms of versatility and effects. This compound will treat you right wether you seek fat loss or lean tissue gain. Mild-moderate drying effect, great strength compound. It can negatively affect appetite, so dosage on bulk should be tailored to this effect. Tren is a double edged sword, there two meanings to tren dick. Tren dick #1 basically deca dick, spaghetti cock. Tren dick #2 Viagra like erections. Your response will vary depending on genetics, e2 levels and other compounds in the mix.

Keep E2 in the low-mid range when running tren and always carry raloxifene, this compound can cause progesterone based gyno in susceptible individuals.

NPP is a great, mild compound for those looking for strength and thickness but fear androgenic sides like acne, hairloss, and BPH. It is also fantastic for women and is similar to var in terms of risk of virilization and strength gains. 50-100 mg per week is a nice dose for bikini-figure physique. Libido will get a huge spike, strength and energy through the roof.

Dbol is a gyno bomb for those predisposed to it as it aromatizes to methyl-estradiol, basically E2 on steroids. This estrogen isomer is MUCH more potent than e2 and the liver has a hard time metabolizing it due to the methylation which makes it stick around longer.


----------



## ghost.recon

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @ghost.recon, On your blast, as you have mentioned 150Mg per week of Test-E, Is it with ester weight or without?
> 
> I have thought many times of starting a cycle but i am a bit worry about MPB. I thought of starting 250Mg Test-E E10D with 400Mg NPP per week. Your views on this cyle?.
> 
> What are you thoughts on managing DHT related issues on androgens?
> 
> Can you share more details on 23andme?. Looks interesting. What are the main benefits ?
> 
> Thanks


 With ester weight, I personally do not see much point in calculating dosages minus the ester. After all, the ester itself is important in determining pharmacokinetics of each compound.

MPB is only an issue if you have it personally, people such as Jay Cutler has a perfect hairline and is definitely not genetically predisposed to MPB. I personally am the same and can tolerate high levels of androgenics with minimal effect on hair.

I would suggest 300mg Test E per week and 2-400mg NPP per week split into bi-weekly shots. PP ester allows twice a week dosing.

I would simply avoid them instead of trying to use them and taking things such as 5ar inhibitors which have a ton of unwanted side effects which I have discussed a lot in previous AMA's. That is only if you care a lot about cosmetics, hair is not that important to me and even if I did experience MPB I would choose to blast the s**t out of androgens and save myself on paying for regular hair cuts. On cycle, my hair grows at a stupid rate even a zero fade doesn't last very long.

23andme analyses your entire DNA genome and sequences ever gene you have and gives you a gene array data output which you can use to analyse your own genes and see what SNPs you have and how these may affect your response to medication, training, potential susceptibility to certain diseases or resistance to etc. It is basically a bespoke analysis of your own body.


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> Thanks for the response and certainly food for thought, winny could be an option so when you say "longer cycle" how many wks would you say with the protection of tudca?......much appreciated may well save the 19nors for another time


 Injectable 17-alkylated AAS are fairly safe, contrary to popular belief, oral and injectable are not equipotent in their hepatotoxicity.

I have seen it many times, someone running sdrol/mtren/etc injectable and liver values are 100% normal. IM administration slows the absorption of the drug while INCREASING bioavailability. The problem is that the first pass through the GI hammers the liver hard AND loses a good amount of the drug. It's that initial metabolism that really pounds the liver and decreases bioavailability. Someone with GI issues like autoimmune celiacs disease, crohns, IBS will also have issues with absorption.

The reason AAS negatively affect hepatic health is because they disrupt bile flow and lipid metabolism in the liver. TUDCA a bile salt originally derived from bear liver, will stop this from happening in the first place. NAC will maximize glutathione stores in the liver and is used in the emergency room as the antidote for acetaminophen poisoning, and we know how harsh that drug is.


----------



## 31205

ghost.recon said:


> Could add an androgenic such as masteron propionate or methyl-tren. Depending on how you respond, generally speaking mtren can bind very strongly to adipocytes and help facilitate lipolysis ie fat loss, I have cruised on low dose test and mtren before with minimal elevations in liver values and have maintained decent condition with very minimal fat gain and some fat loss noticed too.


 Got some mtren gathering dust here. 1mg tablets so what dose you recommend and how long for? Also should I take something like TUDCA with it?


----------



## supertesty

@thanks a LOT @ElChapo and @ghost.recon

Its gonna help me a lot.

I used win one time and it was awesome. I didnt retry since that time because I feel my joints dry and I work heavy, im too scared about injuries. Anything to avoid this ? D3 is sufficient really or there is stil la risk ?

About this guys, I work pretty heavy whole the year and I had 2 little injuries in 2months (very little tear with no aesthetic impact) I start to feel myself very bored about this. Is heavy weight /progressive overload the only method to pack musclemass ? I see lot of guys doing high volume like juan diesel with awesome results or dexter jackson with nerve-failure sets lol I guess its genetic ?  I notice I dont respond that much to heavy weight on legs for example so...


----------



## ghost.recon

Quackerz said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> You are stuck on an island together and told only the biggest (and leanest) of the two of you can live and return to civilisation after a years time training alone with each other. You have enough lifting equipment, food, water and a selection of any PED's you want, including AAS, slin, peptides and anything else you can think of. What would be your survival stack for the year?





ElChapo said:


> Something like 300 mg test with AI, 700 mg winstrol and 1 gram of tren. This would make you strong as a juiced up ox, cut, lean and dry as smoked jerky. Would run 6 iu pharma GH with fast acting slin. 1 g daily tudca to protect the liver.
> 
> If this were a battle, i would taper off the tren down to 200 mg per week to spare cardio for the fight and up winny to a gram.
> 
> Tren/winstrol are my favorite compounds, they treat me well and make you very dry and very strong. No mood issues on tren and no glass joints or hair loss from winny for me.
> 
> I am sure @ghost.recon will be more creative with the stack , i'm a conservative guy when it comes to compounds. He's an encyclopedia :thumb


 What an awesome question 

AAS Per week
100mg Test E
300mg Tren E
1g Mast E
1g EQ
500mg DHB

AAS Daily
50mg Anavar
50mg Winstrol
1mg MTren
20mg Superdrol
10mg Halo

Peptides
5iu Pharma GH
IGF-DES and MGF-PEG pre and post workout (dosages depending on CHO intake)
1-4 IU fast acting insulin with each meal depending on CHO intake

Misc
Design a CRISPR-CAS9 gene editing vector and edit my own myostatin expression
Further gene editing to enhance kidney, liver, and cardiac function.
CRSPR-CAS9 to delete the ER from the nipple or get the glands cut out.
Bioperine to each meal and orals taken
25mcg T3 ED
20-40mcg Clen ED
20mg cialis ED


----------



## Sphinkter

Starz said:


> Yes, I'm in UK. and that will be the first thing I pursue for certain. I'm well aware of the importance of bloodwork. I've often tried to pick skally's info, but it's like trying to draw blood from a stone, so I may check out the resource you mention. I'm considering https://www.23andme.com/en-gb/ prior, just to become aware and understand, predisposition to anything, that sort of thing. strokes have occurred in family. goals aren't to be no mass monster, don't need to be, small frame, w/tiny waist, I'd be seriously jacked at 180 - 200lbs around 8 - 9%, that's my long term goal, with good strength, just a classical bodybuilding physique really, stats of similar to zane. obviously I'll look fcuk all like him, I'd never suggest that, but what I'm saying is, that would be a lot of muscle for someone like me to carry. would you say it's possible with B&C Test/Tren? bulk with test on 300mg - 750mg tops, when I want to cut, Test/Tren? Thanks for your time and responses.


 Same goals as me bro


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> What an awesome question
> 
> AAS Per week
> 100mg Test E
> 300mg Tren E
> 1g Mast E
> 1g EQ
> 500mg DHB
> 
> AAS Daily
> 50mg Anavar
> 50mg Winstrol
> 1mg MTren
> 20mg Superdrol
> 10mg Halo
> 
> Peptides
> 5iu Pharma GH
> IGF-DES and MGF-PEG pre and post workout (dosages depending on CHO intake)
> 1-4 IU fast acting insulin with each meal depending on CHO intake
> 
> Misc
> Design a CRISPR-CAS9 gene editing vector and edit my own myostatin expression
> Further gene editing to enhance kidney, liver, and cardiac function.
> CRSPR-CAS9 to delete the ER from the nipple or get the glands cut out.
> Bioperine to each meal and orals taken
> 25mcg T3 ED
> 20-40mcg Clen ED
> 20mg cialis ED


 I'm f**ked, this dude brought at the gene editing.


----------



## Caulifla

Opinions on female AAS usage?


----------



## ghost.recon

sen said:


> Got some mtren gathering dust here. 1mg tablets so what dose you recommend and how long for? Also should I take something like TUDCA with it?


 Take a gram of TUDCA. 1mg - 500mcg per day for the final 4 weeks of your cut to help bring in a new level of conditioning.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> Take a gram of TUDCA. 1mg - 500mcg per day for the final 4 weeks of your cut to help bring in a new level of conditioning.


 1 gram will have you covered on even the most harsh cycle. 1 gram will actually reverse damage, i can post studies to back this up.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> I'm f**ked, this dude brought at the gene editing.


 Also like to add during sleep IV drip aminos, glucose, vitamins and minerals with Increlex pharma grade IGF1 that has a short half life, perfect for IV method over a period of 8 hours sleep.


----------



## G-man99

sen said:


> Is yohimbine available at supplement shops or is their version shite?


 Makes me feel sick as a dog and I'm a stim junkie!


----------



## Sphinkter

@ghost.recon @ElChapo

double dunter for you here guys I hope you don't mind.

1) can you recommend the best supplement stack & doses for keeping cholesterol both, under control while blasting and quickly bringing back to optimal levels while cruising/coming off. I'm thinking: niacin (500-1000mg?), COQ10, citrus bergamot, curcumin and omega 3 caps?

2) Is there any basis for when people say that dbol needs elevated oestrogen to work properly, and there for you shouldn't use an AI, just nolva for gyno protection. It doesn't make sense to me but I have seen it touted all over the internet. I understand why for bulking it might be optimal to have oestrogen on the higher end of normal but that goes for whatever you're using, and to me I don't get what benefit very high oestrogen gives unless you like being bloated with high BP.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Makes me feel sick as a dog and I'm a stim junkie!


 Yeah, one thing to note is that yohimbine is tren of stimulants. Some people LOVE it, other will HATE it. It will cause a sharp increase in libido, energy and focus in many people, and in others a feeling of impending doom, anxiety, and palpitations. I am also a stim junkie and anything over 25 mg will start to affect quality of life/well being for me.


----------



## ghost.recon

Going to eat a meal, back later to reply with detailed responses at a slower rate. I will expand on @ElChapo input if needed but he generally covers most things if not all.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> double dunter for you here guys I hope you don't mind.
> 
> 1) can you recommend the best supplement stack & doses for keeping cholesterol both, under control while blasting and quickly bringing back to optimal levels while cruising/coming off. I'm thinking: niacin (500-1000mg?), COQ10, citrus bergamot, curcumin and omega 3 caps?
> 
> 2) Is there any basis for when people say that dbol needs elevated oestrogen to work properly, and there for you shouldn't use an AI, just nolva for gyno protection. It doesn't make sense to me but I have seen it touted all over the internet. I understand why for bulking it might be optimal to have oestrogen on the higher end of normal but that goes for whatever you're using, and to me I don't get what benefit very high oestrogen gives unless you like being bloated with high BP.


 1# keep cardio in the mix ALWAYS, one serving of alcohol per day, red wine is best, but hard liquor has the best macros(less calories/carbs). High dose omega 3/fish intake and niacin are solid as well. HDL will always have a VERY strong genetic component to it. My father's HDL is in the 90's in american units. He has the genes, but he also drinks red wine, takes fish oil and does cardio daily. Mine is pretty solid at +65 when running HRT test or off cycle.

#2 To a certain extent, E2 will enhance insulin sensitivity and IGF-1. Basically Slin/GH's mechanisms of action. Past a certain point, E2 will only lead to a decrease in quality of life and performance. E2 actually increases alpha adrenergic receptors in fat, making fat loss harder. The exact opposite effect of yohimbine. Keep E2 between 20-70 pg/mL depending on mood, BP, water retention, sides, and quality of life. Anything higher will risk your health, well-being, and nipple/facial aesthetics.

NOTE: Nolvadex will lower IGF-1 levels, IGF-1 is part of what gives test and GH their positive effects on body composition. You want IGF-1 levels HIGH for bodybuilding. Tren will actually sensitize muscle cells to IGF-1 enhancing this effect. Nolvadex should not be used on a chronic basis contrary to popular dogma, as it has been linked to short-term and permanent brain damage. Some will notice this in the form of brain fog/depression when running nolva.


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> Injectable 17-alkylated AAS are fairly safe, contrary to popular belief, oral and injectable are not equipotent in their hepatotoxicity.
> 
> I have seen it many times, someone running sdrol/mtren/etc injectable and liver values are 100% normal. IM administration slows the absorption of the drug while INCREASING bioavailability. The problem is that the first pass through the GI hammers the liver hard AND loses a good amount of the drug. It's that initial metabolism that really pounds the liver and decreases bioavailability. Someone with GI issues like autoimmune celiacs disease, crohns, IBS will also have issues with absorption.
> 
> The reason AAS negatively affect hepatic health is because they disrupt bile flow and lipid metabolism in the liver. TUDCA a bile salt originally derived from bear liver, will stop this from happening in the first place. NAC will maximize glutathione stores in the liver and is used in the emergency room as the antidote for acetaminophen poisoning, and we know how harsh that drug is.


 Again plenty to think about

Thank you so much for your time


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> Again plenty to think about
> 
> Thank you so much for your time


 Always a pleasure


----------



## gymfreak2010

ghost.recon said:


> What an awesome question
> 
> AAS Per week
> 100mg Test E
> 300mg Tren E
> 1g Mast E
> 1g EQ
> 500mg DHB
> 
> AAS Daily
> 50mg Anavar
> 50mg Winstrol
> 1mg MTren
> 20mg Superdrol
> 10mg Halo
> 
> Peptides
> 5iu Pharma GH
> IGF-DES and MGF-PEG pre and post workout (dosages depending on CHO intake)
> 1-4 IU fast acting insulin with each meal depending on CHO intake
> 
> Misc
> Design a CRISPR-CAS9 gene editing vector and edit my own myostatin expression
> Further gene editing to enhance kidney, liver, and cardiac function.
> CRSPR-CAS9 to delete the ER from the nipple or get the glands cut out.
> Bioperine to each meal and orals taken
> 25mcg T3 ED
> 20-40mcg Clen ED
> 20mg cialis ED


 that's some stack


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> 1# keep cardio in the mix ALWAYS, one serving of alcohol per day, red wine is best, but hard liquor has the best macros(less calories/carbs). High dose omega 3/fish intake and niacin are solid as well. HDL will always have a VERY strong genetic component to it. My father's HDL is in the 90's in american units. He has the genes, but he also drinks red wine, takes fish oil and does cardio daily. Mine is pretty solid at +65 when running HRT test or off cycle.
> 
> #2 To a certain extent, E2 will enhance insulin sensitivity and IGF-1. Basically Slin/GH's mechanisms of action. Past a certain point, E2 will only lead to a decrease in quality of life and performance. E2 actually increases alpha adrenergic receptors in fat, making fat loss harder. The exact opposite effect of yohimbine. Keep E2 between 20-70 pg/mL depending on mood, BP, water retention, sides, and quality of life. Anything higher will risk your health, well-being, and nipple/facial aesthetics.
> 
> NOTE: Nolvadex will lower IGF-1 levels, IGF-1 is part of what gives test and GH their positive effects on body composition. You want IGF-1 levels HIGH for bodybuilding. Tren will actually sensitize muscle cells to IGF-1 enhancing this effect. Nolvadex should not be used on a chronic basis contrary to popular dogma, as it has been linked to short-term and permanent brain damage. Some will notice this in the form of brain fog/depression when running nolva.


 Many thanks. I think mine is decent, it was at 57 in your units on 500mg test and is now at 60 on 250mg test but no harm getting it higher. My LDL is ok but it has climbed from 70-85 since being on (from last august) so I'm wanting to nip it in the bud so to speak.

exactly what I thought, keep E2 in optimal range regardless of compound, makes perfect sense.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> Many thanks. I think mine is decent, it was at 57 in your units on 500mg test and is now at 60 on 250mg test but no harm getting it higher. My LDL is ok but it has climbed from 70-85 since being on (from last august) so I'm wanting to nip it in the bud so to speak.
> 
> exactly what I thought, keep E2 in optimal range regardless of compound, makes perfect sense.


 That's a fantastic HDL level on that much testosterone, you have good genetics.


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> That's a fantastic HDL level on that much testosterone, you have good genetics.


 had to get lucky somewhere I guess lol


----------



## 31205

G-man99 said:


> Makes me feel sick as a dog and I'm a stim junkie!


 oh god. seriously? on what dose?


----------



## ryanb95

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Since starting AAS done 4 cycles so far my breathing has become heavy and sometimes in the night I will wake up with a loss of breath but not all the time, will this be down to low cardio work as I hardly do any?


----------



## 31205

ryanb95 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Since starting AAS done 4 cycles so far my breathing has become heavy and sometimes in the night I will wake up with a loss of breath but not all the time, will this be down to low cardio work as I hardly do any?


 Probably your weight mate. I went up to 14 stone 5 and kept waking in the night cos my nose/throat was blocking up or some s**t!


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> 1 gram will have you covered on even the most harsh cycle. 1 gram will actually reverse damage, i can post studies to back this up.


 What do you think of NAC? I wasn't aware TUDCA or any of these liver products, could be of any real genuine aid, always spouted by many to ''just drink more water.''


----------



## 31205

ghost.recon said:


> Take a gram of TUDCA. 1mg - 500mcg per day for the final 4 weeks of your cut to help bring in a new level of conditioning.


 sweet. will order some in for The last 4 weeks then. thanks a lot.


----------



## ryanb95

sen said:


> Probably your weight mate. I went up to 14 stone 5 and kept waking in the night cos my nose/throat was blocking up or some s**t!


 Should of seen me before I started working out etc I was 9 stone skinny f**k, so maybe with me putting 5 stone on in just a year that might be the cause but my BF is only at about 18% at the moment so not that fat haha


----------



## ElChapo

ryanb95 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Since starting AAS done 4 cycles so far my breathing has become heavy and sometimes in the night I will wake up with a loss of breath but not all the time, will this be down to low cardio work as I hardly do any?


 Chronic AAS usage will cause stiffening of the major arteries in the heart and increase calfication of the arteries, impeding blood flow and oxygenation to cells in the body. It is very important to maintain a regular cardiovascular exercise regimine to mitigate this damage and keep the heart and vascular system running efficiently.

Are you running anything at the moment?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> What do you think of NAC? I wasn't aware TUDCA or any of these liver products, could be of any real genuine aid, always spouted by many to ''just drink more water.''


 TUDCA is all you need. Forget milk thistle liver 52 whatver, etc.

NAC is a nice bonus and will maximize liver antioxidant activity via glutathione stores which get depleted when oxidative stress happens in response to hepatic metabolism of drugs, and with TUDCA keeping bile flow running, that will have you fully covered.


----------



## ElChapo

ryanb95 said:


> Should of seen me before I started working out etc I was 9 stone skinny f**k, so maybe with me putting 5 stone on in just a year that might be the cause but my BF is only at about 18% at the moment so not that fat haha


 I recommend staying under 15% for health, aesthetics, and optimization for gains. Over 15% insulin sensitivity decreases and you will get less bang for your buck from training, diet and drugs, you will also look and feel more like s**t the higher from 15% you go and will put extra stress on your heart and vascular system.

It is always good to cut down to single digits and bulk back up to roughly 15%, repeat. This will keep you looking and feeling good year round and your gains will be better.


----------



## 31205

ryanb95 said:


> Should of seen me before I started working out etc I was 9 stone skinny f**k, so maybe with me putting 5 stone on in just a year that might be the cause but my BF is only at about 18% at the moment so not that fat haha


 Any time my mate hits a certain weight he starts snoring. Drops below and he stops again.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Tricky said:


> Getting full bloods done once I've got my cut complete around September to see if I do have low test and high e. Then I'm going to use pharma test at 250mg per week for a year or longer with a small surplus each week. I was discussing this approach last night with ghost recon and elchapo and just forgot to mention HCG and would like their professional opinion on if it's necessary at 250mg test


 Its necessary on any amount of test, mate.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Any time my mate hits a certain weight he starts snoring. Drops below and he stops again.


 Yeah, i experienced the same thing when i went over 18% BF. My SO noticed i was snoring at higher BF levels. It stopped completely now that i am lean again.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Its necessary on any amount of test, mate.


 Any amount of testosterone, even 25 mg per week, will shutdown endogenous production and spermatogenesis.


----------



## ryanb95

ElChapo said:


> Chronic AAS usage will cause stiffening of the major arteries in the heart and increase calfication of the arteries, impeding blood flow and oxygenation to cells in the body. It is very important to maintain a regular cardiovascular exercise regimine to mitigate this damage and keep the heart and vascular system running efficiently.
> 
> Are you running anything at the moment?


 No not running anything at the moment, Doing a cycle in 3 weeks of NPP, Test Prop and Oxys


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, i experienced the same thing when i went over 18% BF. My SO noticed i was snoring at higher BF levels. It stopped completely now that i am lean again.


 Why is that? So you think it's not the actual body weight that's the issue but body fat?


----------



## ElChapo

ryanb95 said:


> No not running anything at the moment, Doing a cycle in 3 weeks of NPP, Test Prop and Oxys


 Add some cardio and try to maintain a max BF of 15%. Your breathing issues will only get worse if you don't address it.

Shitty cardio will affect your lifts more than you think, less oxygen to the blood means less reps per set and decrease tolerance for volume. This translates to suboptimal training and gains.


----------



## ryanb95

ElChapo said:


> Add some cardio and try to maintain a max BF of 15%. Your breathing issues will only get worse if you don't address it.
> 
> Shitty cardio will affect your lifts more than you think, less oxygen to the blood means less reps per set and decrease tolerance for volume. This translates to suboptimal training and gains.


 Cheers man for your help

ill start implementing a good 20 mins of cardio every day from now


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Why is that? So you think it's not the actual body weight that's the issue but body fat?


 Both, i mention mostly bodyfat as we obviously don't want to lose any muscle to bring our weight down, but higher body means higher levels of inflammation in the body.

Fat is actually an endocrine system and releases hormones called adipokines like leptin and adiponectin which regulate hunger, metabolism and inflammation. Being fat is bad for you in many ways besides making you look and feel like crap. It can increase the risk of cancers and inflammatory conditions.


----------



## ElChapo

ryanb95 said:


> Cheers man for your help
> 
> ill start implementing a good 20 mins of cardio every day from now


 That is perfect. You will reap huge benefits from this and it will not affect your training in any negative way.


----------



## G-man99

sen said:


> oh god. seriously? on what dose?


 Tried it twice, d-hacks stuff and some other lab.

Think they where 10mg tabs and I used 2 split am/pm both times they just made me feel sick and a bit light headed but not stimmed.

I also can't stand clen!

T3 and caffeine is all I use nowadays as I never let myself get 'fat' so to speak as I'm naturally 11-12 stone without training etc


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Tried it twice, d-hacks stuff and some other lab.
> 
> Think they where 10mg tabs and I used 2 split am/pm both times they just made me feel sick and a bit light headed but not stimmed.
> 
> I also can't stand clen!
> 
> T3 and caffeine is all I use nowadays as I never let myself get 'fat' so to speak as I'm naturally 11-12 stone without training etc


 You will find more of those side effects from the tree bark yohimbe than from the yohimbine HCl alkaloid.


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> You will find more of those side effects from the tree bark yohimbe than from the yohimbine HCl alkaloid.


 These where ugl labs so not sure which type it was in all honesty


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> These where ugl labs so not sure which type it was in all honesty


 Yeah just keep an eye out for the right one as the different in effects is significant in terms of sides and potency.


----------



## Pancake'

@ElChapo @ghost.recon Recommend some books. anything training, nutritional, ped related, endocrinology, anything. just any books you recommend, preferably one's of good insight, one can learn or take something away from. I have a ton of books, but a lot of info, always seems backdated. again, great posts, and both a real asset to the forum. sort of members you'd want as mods tbh


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon Recommend some books. anything training, nutritional, ped related, endocrinology, anything. just any books you recommend, preferably one's of good insight, one can learn or take something away from. I have a ton of books, but a lot of info, always seems backdated. again, great posts, and both a real asset to the forum. sort of members you'd want as mods tbh


 Testosterone: Action, deficiency, substitution.

This is the definitive textbook on the physiological and pharmacological effects of testosterone. The applications, pathology, etc. It's quite dry to read but truly an amazing resource for any interested endocrinology/pharmacology/physiology.

I believe it's in the 4th edition at the moment so everything is very up to date in terms of research and data. I myself have a copy of the 3rd edition.


----------



## Tricky

arbffgadm100 said:


> Its necessary on any amount of test, mate.


 Many people choose not to run it though. If you don't suffer from balls shrinking or worries about fertility. Just been reading as many articles and studies at possible to see what's the minimum about of combined drugs that can be used that's all


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Many people choose not to run it though. If you don't suffer from balls shrinking or worries about fertility. Just been reading as many articles and studies at possible to see what's the minimum about of combined drugs that can be used that's all


 Hcg will usually increase estradiol by a clinically significant amount which is another reason many choose not to run it. It's no doubt a useful compound.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Hcg will usually increase estradiol by a clinically significant amount which is another reason many choose not to run it. It's no doubt a useful compound.


 No problem. So if fertile is not a concern I'm ok to go ahead and run pharma grade test at 250mg took once a week with aromasin mon/thurs 12.5mg and no HCG for a period of 12 months plus bloods done each quarter?

Is there any requirement to split the test to 125mg mon/thurs

Using clen up to 60mcg per day when needed to cut back a bit

using winny for up to 8 weeks at a time at 50mg a few times a year

wpuld there be any requirement or benifical to supplement t3 at 25mcg ?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> No problem. So if fertile is not a concern I'm ok to go ahead and run pharma grade test at 250mg took once a week with aromasin mon/thurs 12.5mg and no HCG for a period of 12 months plus bloods done each quarter?
> 
> Is there any requirement to split the test to 125mg mon/thurs
> 
> Using clen up to 60mcg per day when needed to cut back a bit
> 
> using winny for up to 8 weeks at a time at 50mg a few times a year
> 
> wpuld there be any requirement or benifical to supplement t3 at 25mcg ?


 Splitting test will make your serum levels more stable, this is only necessary if you are a fast metabolizer of testosterone and your levels drop quickly. Most do fine on once a week protocols.

25 mcg is a replacement dose of T3. 50 is the minimum and what i recommend for optimizing metabolism. Note that T3 can make some people falsely believe they are losing muscle since it increases glycogen metabolism in the muscle and makes you flat. Keeping carbs moderate-high will solve this issue.

Your plan sounds good, i would just bump the test to 300 mg because i'm ocd like but also because this where we see these awesome effects on IGF, fat loss and strength, but if you are using pharma and it comes in 250 mg, the difference will be negligible.


----------



## ryanb95

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

What are your thoughts on reducing gyno while on cycle?

Test 150mg EOD

NPP 200mg EOD

Anadrol 50mg ED

Dbol 20mg ED


----------



## G-man99

Tricky said:


> No problem. So if fertile is not a concern I'm ok to go ahead and run pharma grade test at 250mg took once a week with aromasin mon/thurs 12.5mg and no HCG for a period of 12 months plus bloods done each quarter?
> 
> Is there any requirement to split the test to 125mg mon/thurs
> 
> Using clen up to 60mcg per day when needed to cut back a bit
> 
> using winny for up to 8 weeks at a time at 50mg a few times a year
> 
> wpuld there be any requirement or benifical to supplement t3 at 25mcg ?


 Why not just get a decent labs 300mg?

Much less likely to be fake anyway


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Testosterone: Action, deficiency, substitution.
> 
> This is the definitive textbook on the physiological and pharmacological effects of testosterone. The applications, pathology, etc. It's quite dry to read but truly an amazing resource for any interested endocrinology/pharmacology/physiology.
> 
> I believe it's in the 4th edition at the moment so everything is very up to date in terms of research and data. I myself have a copy of the 3rd edition.


 Very good book, read the 3rd edition that he sent me.



Starz said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon Recommend some books. anything training, nutritional, ped related, endocrinology, anything. just any books you recommend, preferably one's of good insight, one can learn or take something away from. I have a ton of books, but a lot of info, always seems backdated. again, great posts, and both a real asset to the forum. sort of members you'd want as mods tbh


 The Biology of Cancer - Weinberg. One of the leading authors and scientists in the field of cancer and has contributed hugely to the understanding of cancer cell biology.

You may ask why read up on cancer when wanting to learn about human physiology, nutrition, PEDS, endocrinology etc. The answer is that cancer is all about what goes WRONG within a cell. With various different types of cancer, you will learn about dysfunctional endocrine signalling, nutrition metabolism etc. Once you have grasped the concepts of what shouldn't be happening in a cell, you will be able to understand the correct cellular functions of each cell type. That is one of my approaches to learning. The study of endocrine cancers such as prostate, endometrial, breast, ovarian etc has allowed me to further understand and appreciate androgen and sex hormone signalling.


----------



## swole troll

@ghost.recon and @ElChapo

is there any merit to using orals pre workout only (mainly dbol and drol)

ive always been skeptical given how long it takes to build up stable levels but others swear by it

just placebo or is there actually a benefit to it?

** bonus question: same question as above only with injectable orals


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> Diet is 100%, but 12 IU growth is over kill for plain fat loss.
> 
> Going off of what you said above, i would recommend 300 mg of test E per week with E2 kept in a tight range of 15-42 pg/mL, this is the dosage where the androgenic effect of test gives a nice boost to fat loss, especially if E2 is kept in range.
> 
> 3 iu's of GOOD human growth hormone will give a nice boost in fat loss. Too much GH can give some people water retention, individual and unique effect of course. The higher dosages are reserved for people seeking pure mass.


 Is the 300mgs amount good enough for muscle mass gain without other compounds, and is this dose age depemdent?


----------



## ghost.recon

swole troll said:


> @ghost.recon and @ElChapo
> 
> is there any merit to using orals pre workout only (mainly dbol and drol)
> 
> ive always been skeptical given how long it takes to build up stable levels but others swear by it
> 
> just placebo or is there actually a benefit to it?
> 
> ** bonus question: same question as above only with injectable orals


 Stable long term exposure is required for its genomic effects such as hypertrophy, the assimilation of muscle tissue is not an instant process.

The non-genomic effects experienced with their use would be things such as strength, aggression, volumisation (pathways such as nitric oxide signalling, ischemic response)

Not placebo IME


----------



## swole troll

ghost.recon said:


> Stable long term exposure is required for its genomic effects such as hypertrophy, the assimilation of muscle tissue is not an instant process.
> 
> The non-genomic effects experienced with their use would be things such as strength, aggression, volumisation (pathways such as nitric oxide signalling, ischemic response)
> 
> Not placebo IME


 thanks for the reply

so just to clarify you will get an acute performance boost from popping some dbol pre workout only?


----------



## ghost.recon

swole troll said:


> thanks for the reply
> 
> so just to clarify you will get an acute performance boost from popping some dbol pre workout only?


 Yes in terms of bodybuilding. Olympic weight lifters love their turinabol due to strength and minimal weight gain in the form of water and fat allowing them to stay within weight categories.

Injectable orals will have higher bio-availability compared to orals. Oral route will go through some gastric degradation, absorption (which can vary in terms of efficacy depending on any existing intestinal gut issues), and then liver metabolism.


----------



## Tricky

G-man99 said:


> Why not just get a decent labs 300mg?
> 
> Much less likely to be fake anyway


 Suppose I could and should. Just see so many reviews and labs seem hit and miss. I know pharma can be faked too. I can get dimensions, southern ghost, Taylor made and sphinx plus a few pharma grade.


----------



## ElChapo

ryanb95 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> What are your thoughts on reducing gyno while on cycle?
> 
> Test 150mg EOD
> 
> NPP 200mg EOD
> 
> Anadrol 50mg ED
> 
> Dbol 20mg ED


 drop everything but test. Make sure e2 is within normal limits. run raloxifene 60 mg for 8-12 weeks. Gyno will be gone or greatly reduced.

Dbol has no place in a cycle for gyno prone individuals.

If you wanna run something while nuking gyno, i suggest masteron or winstrol. No 19nors like tren or npp.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Splitting test will make your serum levels more stable, this is only necessary if you are a fast metabolizer of testosterone and your levels drop quickly. Most do fine on once a week protocols.
> 
> 25 mcg is a replacement dose of T3. 50 is the minimum and what i recommend for optimizing metabolism. Note that T3 can make some people falsely believe they are losing muscle since it increases glycogen metabolism in the muscle and makes you flat. Keeping carbs moderate-high will solve this issue.
> 
> Your plan sounds good, i would just bump the test to 300 mg because i'm ocd like but also because this where we see these awesome effects on IGF, fat loss and strength, but if you are using pharma and it comes in 250 mg, the difference will be negligible.


 Ok thanks I'll get a trusted UGL and split the dose 150mg test with 12.5mg aromasin mon/Thursday.

How many kcals surplus would you start? Is 500mg a day too much to start and to approach it slow like 200kcals per day and increase as weight stalls?

Each time I hit 15% Bf to run the t3 and clen and take it back to maintence kcals to lean up a bit before going back into the surplus?


----------



## G-man99

Tricky said:


> Suppose I could and should. Just see so many reviews and labs seem hit and miss. I know pharma can be faked too. I can get dimensions, southern ghost, Taylor made and sphinx plus a few pharma grade.


 All them labs mentioned are decent enough mate and should be accurately dosed


----------



## G-man99

Tricky said:


> Ok thanks I'll get a trusted UGL and split the dose 150mg test with 12.5mg aromasin mon/Thursday.
> 
> How many kcals surplus would you start? Is 500mg a day too much to start and to approach it slow like 200kcals per day and increase as weight stalls?
> 
> Each time I hit 15% Bf to run the t3 and clen and take it back to maintence kcals to lean up a bit before going back into the surplus?


 Why split the dose?

Hormone stability won't really be an issue as hormones are never stable anyway.

If your going to run for 12+ months then scar tissue would be more my concern


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> Stable long term exposure is required for its genomic effects such as hypertrophy, the assimilation of muscle tissue is not an instant process.
> 
> The non-genomic effects experienced with their use would be things such as strength, aggression, volumisation (pathways such as nitric oxide signalling, ischemic response)
> 
> Not placebo IME


 Exactly, you will see effects from acute AND chronic exposure do drugs/hormones.

The non-genomic component will be something that can be felt right away, as with something like caffeine. Caffeine will also confer long-term protection against alzheimer's and diabetes through gene expression through chronic consumption. I like to use caffeine as an example to break down the differences between genomic and non genomic effects as most people have experienced it themselves.


----------



## Tricky

G-man99 said:


> Why split the dose?
> 
> Hormone stability won't really be an issue as hormones are never stable anyway.
> 
> If your going to run for 12+ months then scar tissue would be more my concern


 Going by elchapos last post I thought I might aswel split it to ensure it's stable incase I am a fast metaboliser.

Scar tissue shouldn't be too much of an issue will it rotating 2x delts, 2x quads and 2x glutes?


----------



## ryanb95

ElChapo said:


> drop everything but test. Make sure e2 is within normal limits. run raloxifene 60 mg for 8-12 weeks. Gyno will be gone or greatly reduced.
> 
> Dbol has no place in a cycle for gyno prone individuals.
> 
> If you wanna run something while nuking gyno, i suggest masteron or winstrol. No 19nors like tren or npp.


 Cheers for the info

I will still run the cycle but just drop the Dbol

Thanks for the advice man


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Ok thanks I'll get a trusted UGL and split the dose 150mg test with 12.5mg aromasin mon/Thursday.
> 
> How many kcals surplus would you start? Is 500mg a day too much to start and to approach it slow like 200kcals per day and increase as weight stalls?
> 
> Each time I hit 15% Bf to run the t3 and clen and take it back to maintence kcals to lean up a bit before going back into the surplus?


 If you want to stay lean, aim for a maximum of 1/2 lbs weight gain per week.

The 500 cal guideline will put you at 1 lbs per week and is a nice compromise between maximizing gains and not gaining too much fat.

Once you hit 15%, cut at 20-25% daily deficit. Should take you 4 weeks to get back to 12%ish. Rinse and repeat.

I am a fan of bulk/cut cycles, recomp takes a long time and i only recommend it for people who are 7-9% bodyfat and like how they look already.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Going by elchapos last post I thought I might aswel split it to ensure it's stable incase I am a fast metaboliser.
> 
> Scar tissue shouldn't be too much of an issue will it rotating 2x delts, 2x quads and 2x glutes?


 The split is nice as it will limit E2 and you can time the injection with your aromasin so that you don't forget them. Sat/Wed, Mon/Thu. Something like that. Either way is fine.

I highly recommend you look into back filling insulin syringes for injections, you will never build up scar tissue this way and pinning is effortless and pleasant.

1.Get yourself a bunch of 30 g 1/2 inch insulin syringe/needles, draw your dose with a 3 cc /21 g syringe/needle.

2. Pull the plunger out of the slin pin, inject the oil from the 21 gauge into the slin pin from behind. Put the plunger back on.

3. Pin and enjoy scar-free, pipless injections.


----------



## S123

How much of a surplus do you recommend on a bulk? How much weight should one be gaining per week? Would be good to have an answer for people on just AAS and people on aas GH and slin

5iu of GH and 20iu of fast acting slin Vs 10iu GH for pure muscle gains?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> How much of a surplus do you recommend on a bulk? How much weight should one be gaining per week? Would be good to have an answer for people on just AAS and people on aas GH and slin
> 
> 5iu of GH and 20iu of fast acting slin Vs 10iu GH for pure muscle gains?


 The GH with insulin will be much stronger. Like 5x3 vs 5+5 for GH only.

If you want to stay lean half a pound per week will make you gain minimal if not anything fat. Depending on your genetics and what you are running, you might be able to push this to 1 lbs per week. We are talking quality, dry mass. Not bloof, water and pump. Tren/Mtren are fantastic for this, but trial and experimentation is your friend to find out how much you can get away with. Ectomorph types can dirty bulk and stay fairly lean most of the time, everyone is different.

A surplus you would be looking at is anywhere from 10-20% per day.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> If you want to stay lean, aim for a maximum of 1/2 lbs weight gain per week.
> 
> The 500 cal guideline will put you at 1 lbs per week and is a nice compromise between maximizing gains and not gaining too much fat.
> 
> Once you hit 15%, cut at 20-25% daily deficit. Should take you 4 weeks to get back to 12%ish. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> I am a fan of bulk/cut cycles, recomp takes a long time and i only recommend it for people who are 7-9% bodyfat and like how they look already.


 I'm all out of likes today but thanks so much for all your advise I'm around 18-20% now and going to continue cutting for another 12 weeks approx should I wait until I'm single digit BF before starting to use test and 500kcal surplus?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I'm all out of likes today but thanks so much for all your advise I'm around 18-20% now and going to continue cutting for another 12 weeks approx should I wait until I'm single digit BF before starting to use test and 500kcal surplus?


 No, start now. Any muscle you have now will be preserved better and you will gain strength and muscle while cutting. You will be in a better position over all once you get lean and the testosterone will assist you in your cut in regards to energy, motivation, strength, and lean tissue gain and fat loss. You don't get any benefit from waiting and any E2 issues can be controlled with AI.

Get down to a solid 10-12% and keep the range tight. You will love the way you look at 10-12% even without a strong base of muscle. Low body fat will make most people look fairly aesthetic and you will feel healthier.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> No, start now. Any muscle you have now will be preserved better and you will gain strength and muscle while cutting. You will be in a better position over all once you get lean and the testosterone will assist you in your cut in regards to energy, motivation, strength, and lean tissue gain and fat loss. You don't get any benefit from waiting and any E2 issues can be controlled with AI.
> 
> Get down to a solid 10-12% and keep the range tight. You will love the way you look at 10-12% even without a strong base of muscle. Low body fat will make most people look fairly aesthetic and you will feel healthier.


 Everyone has been telling me to get lean first so I started a few weeks back to slowly cut a few hundred below maintence and I'm down 14lbs so I figured with the use of clen and eph I will continue to cut to get another 20-25lbs lff then once lean start the test and a small surplus and be careful never to get fat again just aim for like you say 2lb a month.

I can't start right now anyway as I need to source all the stuff plus I want to get a full blood pannel to see where I'm at. So with this in mind I'll likely start in 4 weeks or so then instead of waiting 12 like I had planned

what your saying makes sense to have the test to help build muscle and burn fat I was just listening to everyone saying get yourself lean first and truth be told I've never been lean so told myself if I can get lean and stay consistent I'm in a good place to start running test long term


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Everyone has been telling me to get lean first so I started a few weeks back to slowly cut a few hundred below maintence and I'm down 14lbs so I figured with the use of clen and eph I will continue to cut to get another 20-25lbs lff then once lean start the test and a small surplus and be careful never to get fat again just aim for like you say 2lb a month.
> 
> I can't start right now anyway as I need to source all the stuff plus I want to get a full blood pannel to see where I'm at. So with this in mind I'll likely start in 4 weeks or so then instead of waiting 12 like I had planned
> 
> what your saying makes sense to have the test to help build muscle and burn fat I was just listening to everyone saying get yourself lean first and truth be told I've never been lean so told myself if I can get lean and stay consistent I'm in a good place to start running test long term


 Yeah, it's a popular idea to throw around, get lean first before you start the cycle for health, etc.

It's BS. What you are doing is very smart because you will have a baseline of where you are at, you may even find out you have low testosterone to begin with and need TRT anyways but you would never know if you plunged straight into the cycle like so many do. Not running it from the get-go is just wasting time that you could be spending building muscle while cutting. If you plan on blast/cruising or cycling in the future, then it's a no-brainer.


----------



## zariph

Thoughts on clomid monetherapy for a young guy with low T? Also can you use a low dose of clomid to cruise instead of using test`?


----------



## 31205

ghost.recon said:


> Yes in terms of bodybuilding. Olympic weight lifters love their turinabol due to strength and minimal weight gain in the form of water and fat allowing them to stay within weight categories.
> 
> Injectable orals will have higher bio-availability compared to orals. Oral route will go through some gastric degradation, absorption (which can vary in terms of efficacy depending on any existing intestinal gut issues), and then liver metabolism.


 Is Tbol good for strength then? I've watched a few YouTube videos and Tbol sounds great but I don't think I've seen anyone on here say it's decent.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thoughts on clomid monetherapy for a young guy with low T? Also can you use a low dose of clomid to cruise instead of using test`?


 Very few feel any benefit from clomiphene monotherapy, even with elevated T levels. The reason for this is due to the fact that clomiphene doesnt just block estrogen in the brain, but also behaves as an estrogen. SERMs are blockers and activators. This estrogenic stimuli leads to people feeling like high e2 on clomid hence all the anecdotes about shitty moods on clomid.

Low dose clomid is virtually useless on any dose of test. Serms are not something you want to take for a long time, they are fairly toxic.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Is Tbol good for strength then? I've watched a few YouTube videos and Tbol sounds great but I don't think I've seen anyone on here say it's decent.


 The two drugs that olympic weightlifters got popped for the most is dbol and winstrol

i will tell you that winstrol is what got me to 225 lbs strict overhead press for reps.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Very few feel any benefit from clomiphene monotherapy, even with elevated T levels. The reason for this is due to the fact that clomiphene doesnt just block estrogen in the brain, but also behaves as an estrogen. SERMs are blockers and activators. This estrogenic stimuli leads to people feeling like high e2 on clomid hence all the anecdotes about shitty moods on clomid.
> 
> Low dose clomid is virtually useless on any dose of test. Serms are not something you want to take for a long time, they are fairly toxic.


 thx for you answer! What if I did Clomid + an AI to control estro`?


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

@ghost.recon

As a Type 1 diabetic I've learned to deal with my diabetes and immersed myself in nutrition and training techniques.

I've got a good deal of experience with AAS and fat cutting agents and am in great shape and condition. However I'm always looking to learn and try new things. I'm quite interested in using HGH but unsure if it would be beneficial at all. Would it drive up my insulin usage by a great deal? What protocol would be best as a T1D?

Are there certain supplements, peptides or AAS you definitely would recommend?

Appreciate all the great advice and information you provide! Cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thx for you answer! What if I did Clomid + an AI to control estro`?


 It would not work. AI blocks test to e2 conversion. The clomid molecule itself behaves like e2. AI will not stop clomid from binding to e2 receptors in the brain and making you feel like a moody woman.


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> As a Type 1 diabetic I've learned to deal with my diabetes and immersed myself in nutrition and training techniques.
> 
> I've got a good deal of experience with AAS and fat cutting agents and am in great shape and condition. However I'm always looking to learn and try new things. I'm quite interested in using HGH but unsure if it would be beneficial at all. Would it drive up my insulin usage by a great deal? What protocol would be best as a T1D?
> 
> Are there certain supplements, peptides or AAS you definitely would recommend?
> 
> Appreciate all the great advice and information you provide! Cheers!


 High doses of GH decrease insulin sensitivity, at worst, you may have to increase your insulin doses slightly if you go higher with the GH dose.

If you are fairly young and don't aspire to attain freakish mass, GH won't be worth it for you in higher doses.

In regards to anti-aging/performance optimization, 1-3 iu daily will have you covered and should not affect your insulin requirements.

Supplements i recommend are regular cardiovascular exercise, 2.5-5 mg daily cialis for endothelial health, pycnogenol and curcumin are extremely potent antioxidant/anti-inflammatory compounds.

I highly recommend examine.com if you want to look into supplements, you will be able to sift through the useless bullshit and legitimate stuff backed by science and logic.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> The two drugs that olympic weightlifters got popped for the most is dbol and winstrol
> 
> i will tell you that winstrol is what got me to 225 lbs strict overhead press for reps.


 Yeah winstrol is ridiculous for strength, I agree. The best drug I've used, strength wise.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Yeah winstrol is ridiculous for strength, I agree. The best drug I've used, strength wise.


 It is my favorite along with tren. They can do it all.


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> The split is nice as it will limit E2 and you can time the injection with your aromasin so that you don't forget them. Sat/Wed, Mon/Thu. Something like that. Either way is fine.
> 
> I highly recommend you look into back filling insulin syringes for injections, you will never build up scar tissue this way and pinning is effortless and pleasant.
> 
> 1.Get yourself a bunch of 30 g 1/2 inch insulin syringe/needles, draw your dose with a 3 cc /21 g syringe/needle.
> 
> 2. Pull the plunger out of the slin pin, inject the oil from the 21 gauge into the slin pin from behind. Put the plunger back on.
> 
> 3. Pin and enjoy scar-free, pipless injections.


 Do you also pin that IM?


----------



## 18650

Why do people claim running two 19nors, tren & nandrolone together is problematic? If oestrogen is kept under control with exemestane and pramipexole is on hand to control a possible buildup prolactin how can it be problematic?

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> Do you also pin that IM?


 Yeah, IM. 1/2 inch will cover most people, especially to delts. If you are on the chubbier side, you may need a longer pin for the other sites.

I use 5/16th of an inch, the smallest available needle. Rotate delts, pecs, ventroglutes and quads. Absolutely zero scar tissue with 8 different sites to inject an a mosquito sized pin.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Why do people claim running two 19nors, tren & nandrolone together is problematic? If oestrogen is kept under control with exemestane and pramipexole is on hand to control a possible buildup prolactin how can it be problematic?
> 
> Many thanks


 It's fine, it's not like there's a magic, toxic synergy between tren and deca. Accounting for dosages, there's nothing wrong with it. Typical broscience.

Now if you respond badly to either compound, i wouldnt want to have them in the mix. To play it safe, i would assess tolerance and effects with each compound before i combine them, or you can gamble and run them together from the get-go. Worst case scenario, you dont feel so good or you get the early stages of gyno. You drop the compound, run ralox, problem solved.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> It is my favorite along with tren. They can do it all.


 Is their anyway of getting around the joint issues, that can occur with win? everyone, that's ever sung it's praise, talks about it's strength properties and they all seem to say, it's the best hardening oral, and var doesn't offer that so much in comparison.

Have you ever tried Androlics, green thai drol or blue hearts, their is lots of surrounding hype around them two, likes of Turkish anapolan also, which I don't quiet get, because 10mg dbol is 10mg dbol? yet people just portray them specific brands to be extremely potent.

Do you feel orals are a worthy addition? personally, I think Tbol seems a great drug. I think, if I was going to include an addition of anything after some test cycles, it would be tbol.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> It's fine, it's not like there's a magic, toxic synergy between tren and deca. Accounting for dosages, there's nothing wrong with it. Typical broscience.
> 
> Now if you respond badly to either compound, i wouldnt want to have them in the mix. To play it safe, i would assess tolerance and effects with each compound before i combine them, or you can gamble and run them together from the get-go. Worst case scenario, you dont feel so good or you get the early stages of gyno. You drop the compound, run ralox, problem solved.


 Thank you so much for taking the time time to reply Elchapo. You and Ghost have truly blessed this board with these kind of threads and the knowledge you've delivered.


----------



## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> drop everything but test. Make sure e2 is within normal limits. run raloxifene 60 mg for 8-12 weeks. Gyno will be gone or greatly reduced.
> 
> Dbol has no place in a cycle for gyno prone individuals.
> 
> If you wanna run something while nuking gyno, i suggest masteron or winstrol. No 19nors like tren or npp.


 Say I'm 4 weeks into a 16 week blast of deca and test (500/500), and I have a little existing gyno that seems to be growing. Obviously I don't want to drop the cycle as it's a long term plan. Can I try keeping the gyno at bay with liberal use of Anastrozole, then concentrate on killing it after the blast is done and I'm on cruise? If the astro is retarding the growth, is there any major negatives to this, eg will the tissue be harder to shift than if I had dropped the deca and most of the test instantly?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Is their anyway of getting around the joint issues, that can occur with win? everyone, that's ever sung it's praise, talks about it's strength properties and they all seem to say, it's the best hardening oral, and var doesn't offer that so much in comparison.
> 
> Have you ever tried Androlics, green thai drol or blue hearts, their is lots of surrounding hype around them two, likes of Turkish anapolan also, which I don't quiet get, because 10mg dbol is 10mg dbol? yet people just portray them specific brands to be extremely potent.
> 
> Do you feel orals are a worthy addition? personally, I think Tbol seems a great drug. I think, if I was going to include an addition of anything after some test cycles, it would be tbol.


 Yes, mg for mg winstrol crushes anavar. The winstrol associated joint pain seems to have a genetic basis. A theory of mine is that suboptimal vitamin D levels can predispose one to this effect. My Vitamin D levels are always very high and i never had this issue. I base this theory on some research wherein women suffering from aromatase inhibitor induced arthralgia(joint pain), specifically letrozole, had low levels of vitamin D. The ones with optimal levels did not encounter this issue as often. Just a theory though. I never needed more than 50 mg ED, so higher doses may increase the risk but i have no personal experience with the joint issues.

The question of brand/potency is something i encounter daily in my occupation, patient's seem to believe, almost swear, that brand name medicine is more potent. This defeats the purpose of the therapeutic effect of the medicine if a company is overdosing a product.

By FDA regulation all generics/brands are to be equipotent to the 99%. Now when it comes to UGLs, some are known to overdose their products to get an edge, others will cut corners to save money on raws, so these develop a reputation. We've all heard of zambon's winstrol. I cannot say for sure as i have not experimented with many UGLs, my introduction to AAS started directly to homebrew, and i dabble with some UGLs here and there to experiment with different compounds.

Orals are a nice icing in the cake, a convenient way of exponentially enhancing the efficacy of a cycle without having to pin more oil and increase frequency of injections. They tend to be cheap and very easy to find. The fear mongering with oral AAS is astounding. You have pro BBers running grams of orals for years on and off. A recreational bodybuilder running conservative doses for a couple of weeks will not have a significant impact on health, much less so when TUDCA is in the mix. Acute effects like lipid changes and BP with discontinue when you drop the medication, but the lean tissue and strength gains will stay.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time time to reply Elchapo. You and Ghost have truly blessed this board with these kind of threads and the knowledge you've delivered.


 It's a pleasure to be here, you guys have been awesome. I think i will be sticking around.


----------



## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> Say I'm 4 weeks into a 16 week blast of deca and test (500/500), and I have a little existing gyno that seems to be growing. Obviously I don't want to drop the cycle as it's a long term plan. Can I try keeping the gyno at bay with liberal use of Anastrozole, then concentrate on killing it after the blast is done and I'm on cruise? If the astro is retarding the growth, is there any major negatives to this, eg will the tissue be harder to shift than if I had dropped the deca and most of the test instantly?


 It depends if it's e2 mediated gyno or progestin based from the deca. 60 mg raloxifene will stop and/or reverse your gyno. You will see a small drop in IGF-1, but 1 gram of AAS will overcome that just fine. Run it through the cycle and past it until the gyno is gone. This usually takes 8-12 weeks for old gyno and 4 weeks for fresh gyno.

Have you been controlling E2 from the start? Liberal use of AI will just crush your libido, energy, and strength and your cycle will take a hit. It won't do much for the existing glandular tissue but will retard growth at the cost off all the side effects of above.

With Raloxifene you will stop the flare up and have a decent chance of reversal even through the cycle, granted you bring E2 into normal range. With deca, we are dealing a progestin that is also able to aromatize, so it needs to be handled with care especially when we are hitting 1 g plus total with test.


----------



## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> It depends if it's e2 mediated gyno or progestin based from the deca. 60 mg raloxifene will stop and/or reverse your gyno. You will see a small drop in IGF-1, but 1 gram of AAS will overcome that just fine. Run it through the cycle and past it until the gyno is gone. This usually takes 8-12 weeks for old gyno and 4 weeks for fresh gyno.
> 
> Have you been controlling E2 from the start? Liberal use of AI will just crush your libido, energy, and strength and your cycle will take a hit. It won't do much for the existing glandular tissue but will retard growth at the cost off all the side effects of above.
> 
> With Raloxifene you will stop the flare up and have a decent chance of reversal even through the cycle, granted you bring E2 into normal range. With deca, we are dealing a progestin that is also able to aromatize, so it needs to be handled with care especially when we are hitting 1 g plus total with test.


 I'm just thinking about my next blast. Last time I was on deca/test I had this problem and I took the first option that I outlined - dropped the deca and reduced the test. Gyno stopped growing but I was annoyed that I'd done 4 weeks of deca for no gain.

Yes I was using Anastrozole at the time. So I should be taking the appropriate dose of Astro throughout the blast (I was good with 1mg twice weekly when running 500mg test alone, I suppose the same dose will be sufficient for 500/500 deca test due to the nature of deca?) plus the Ralox?

What is Raloxifene doing that Anastrozole isn't? And vice versa if applicable (feel free to be brief, I will go read up on Ralox now but an explanation from you would be much appreciated). Thank you.


----------



## ghost.recon

Thanks guys for making @ElChapo feel at home here.


----------



## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> I'm just thinking about my next blast. Last time I was on deca/test I had this problem and I took the first option that I outlined - dropped the deca and reduced the test. Gyno stopped growing but I was annoyed that I'd done 4 weeks of deca for no gain.
> 
> Yes I was using Anastrozole at the time. So I should be taking the appropriate dose of Astro throughout the blast (I was good with 1mg twice weekly when running 500mg test alone, I suppose the same dose will be sufficient for 500/500 deca test due to the nature of deca?) plus the Ralox?
> 
> What is Raloxifene doing that Anastrozole isn't? And vice versa if applicable (feel free to be brief, I will go read up on Ralox now but an explanation from you would be much appreciated). Thank you.


 Anastrazole is only blocking the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone and the deca into E2.

Raloxifene is directly binding to the E2 receptor in the mammary gland and killing the tissue by starving it of estrogen. Lowering E2 alone does not accomplish the same effect as this because the E2 receptors will upregulate to make up for the low e2 levels, cancer cells can do this and it's scary s**t. Raloxifene can treat/prevent breast cancer so it is perfect for what we need. Raloxifene will even work on progestin based gyno ie tren/deca induced lumps.

You get the bonus effect of raloxifene acting as an estrogen in bone cells, enhancing density and strength. It also acts as an estrogen in the liver, which will improve your cholesterol while on cycle. It has even been shown to have positive effects on cognitive function, unlike it's cousin nolvadex which does the opposite.


----------



## ghost.recon

St. Michael said:


> I'm just thinking about my next blast. Last time I was on deca/test I had this problem and I took the first option that I outlined - dropped the deca and reduced the test. Gyno stopped growing but I was annoyed that I'd done 4 weeks of deca for no gain.
> 
> Yes I was using Anastrozole at the time. So I should be taking the appropriate dose of Astro throughout the blast (I was good with 1mg twice weekly when running 500mg test alone, I suppose the same dose will be sufficient for 500/500 deca test due to the nature of deca?) plus the Ralox?
> 
> What is Raloxifene doing that Anastrozole isn't? And vice versa if applicable (feel free to be brief, I will go read up on Ralox now but an explanation from you would be much appreciated). Thank you.


 Anastrazole/Arimidex is an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI):
Arimidex mechanism of action - Inhibition of Aromatase Enzyme Activity. Aromatase being responsible for converting Testosterone into Estrogen

Raloxifene is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM):
Mechanism of action - Selective binding to Estrogen Receptors (ER) at the breast, bone, and brain level. Upon binding to ER will displace and prevent the binding of circulating Estrogen to these receptors. Binding to ER at the breast level produces a antagonistic effect ie stopping what binding of Estrogen to ER at the breast should do which is stimulation of breast tissue growth.


----------



## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> Anastrazole is only blocking the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone and the deca into E2.
> 
> Raloxifene is directly binding to the E2 receptor in the mammary gland and killing the tissue by starving it of estrogen. Lowering E2 alone does not accomplish the same effect as this because the E2 receptors will upregulate to make up for the low e2 levels, cancer cells can do this and it's scary s**t. Raloxifene can treat/prevent breast cancer so it is perfect for what we need. Raloxifene will even work on progestin based gyno ie tren/deca induced lumps.
> 
> You get the bonus effect of raloxifene acting as an estrogen in bone cells, enhancing density and strength. It also acts as an estrogen in the liver, which will improve your cholesterol while on cycle. It has even been shown to have positive effects on cognitive function, unlike it's cousin nolvadex which does the opposite.


 Ok. I should have mentioned I was on low dose dbol when I had this problem (first time I had used it and won't be using it again, mainly due to the lethargy it gave me. I had not even considered it as the cause of the gyno but I'm thinking differently now).

So I use the Astro, to reduce e2, in addition to the ralox? or is the ralox all that is needed?

Thanks


----------



## St. Michael

ghost.recon said:


> Anastrazole/Arimidex is an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI):
> Arimidex mechanism of action - Inhibition of Aromatase Enzyme Activity. Aromatase being responsible for converting Testosterone into Estrogen
> 
> Raloxifene is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM):
> Mechanism of action - Selective binding to Estrogen Receptors (ER) at the breast, bone, and brain level. Upon binding to ER will displace and prevent the binding of circulating Estrogen to these receptors. Binding to ER at the breast level produces a antagonistic effect ie stopping what binding of Estrogen to ER at the breast should do which is stimulation of breast tissue growth.


 Ah ok thank you. I've always used AI instead of serm as I'd been advised it is better at controlling e2 (suicidal inhibitor?) whereas the serm reduces the symptoms of raised e2, but doesn't actually reduce e2. I think I'll definitely be using Ralox considering the additional benefits. So do you personally favour SERM over AI?


----------



## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> Ok. I should have mentioned I was on low dose dbol when I had this problem (first time I had used it and won't be using it again, mainly due to the lethargy it gave me. I had not even considered it as the cause of the gyno but I'm thinking differently now).
> 
> So I use the Astro, to reduce e2, in addition to the ralox? or is the ralox all that is needed?
> 
> Thanks


 Use both, you only need ralox to reverse gyno or prevent it on a cycle you know will give you gyno.

Dbol is the worst for gyno, it aromatizes into methy-estradiol instead of regular estradiol, a much more potent estrogen that is much harder to break down by the liver.


----------



## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> Use both, you only need ralox to reverse gyno or prevent it on a cycle you know will give you gyno.
> 
> Dbol is the worst for gyno, it aromatizes into methy-estradiol instead of regular estradiol, a much more potent estrogen that is much harder to break down by the liver.


 ok. Thank you very much for your advice. Yes, I think dbol is not for me. I always tell myself I'm never doing orals again, then end up breaking my promise (any time I ever get a freebie it's either viagra or dbol and I end up using both  )


----------



## ghost.recon

St. Michael said:


> ok. Thank you very much for your advice. Yes, I think dbol is not for me. I always tell myself I'm never doing orals again, then end up breaking my promise (any time I ever get a freebie it's either viagra or dbol and I end up using both  )


 Can't say no to a freebie


----------



## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> ok. Thank you very much for your advice. Yes, I think dbol is not for me. I always tell myself I'm never doing orals again, then end up breaking my promise (any time I ever get a freebie it's either viagra or dbol and I end up using both  )


 Lmao, i myself have had a run in with dbol gyno. Not touching it again.


----------



## Sphinkter

@ghost.recon @ElChapo

will using a beta blocker like propranolol for reducing BP inhibit fat loss by essentially doing the opposite of what clen/eph does and will it also work against clen/eph?


----------



## ghost.recon

Sphinkter said:


> @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> will using a beta blocker like propranolol for reducing BP inhibit fat loss by essentially doing the opposite of what clen/eph does and will it also work against clen/eph?


 Salbutamol/albuterol is known to interact with propranolol on paper. I speculate it would alter favorable beta receptor agonism in terms of fat loss.


----------



## Sphinkter

ghost.recon said:


> Salbutamol/albuterol is known to interact with propranolol on paper. I speculate it would alter favorable beta receptor agonism in terms of fat loss.


 Alter it negatively I assume?


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> will using a beta blocker like propranolol for reducing BP inhibit fat loss by essentially doing the opposite of what clen/eph does and will it also work against clen/eph?


 Yep, think of a beta blocker as the opposite of a stimulant. It works via the same pathway as ephedrine and clen, but instead it blocks it.

This is why EC stack and clen can cause elevations in blood pressure, they are beta receptor agonists. Your beta blocker is an antagonist.


----------



## Tonynico

Thoughts on mk677?


----------



## ghost.recon

Tonynico said:


> Thoughts on mk677?


 My thoughts are that I would not want my pituitary gland bleeding GH constantly. All cells have an "expiration date" ie cellular senescence. For those wondering what senescence is, it is when a cell can not longer divide anymore and loses its normal function. I speculate that prolonged secretion may cause pituitary issues over time. The pituitary gland is not only involved in GH function but an array of other important functions. I personally would rather use exogenous GH to give my pituitary a break.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Thoughts on mk677?


 Seems to have okay potential, no experience with personal use. Would rather go straight GH.


----------



## MrBishi

MrBishi said:


> 1. What kind of bulking cycle would you personally recommend?
> 
> 2. I ask because I'm currently cutting on 350mg Test Prop and 525mg Tren Ace per week (first Tren cycle) and feel great, no bad sides (insomnia/sweats/rage). And I'm tempted (because of the lack of sides) to run the tren/test long esters in my winter bulk. But then everyone loves Deca/Test for a bulk... So what you think, for me, Tren or try Deca?
> 
> 3. I've been cycle and cruising for about 12 months now (600mg Test, 250mg Test, 600mg Test, 250mg Test, 350mg Test/535mg Tren). I was planning to PCT and take a few months off. I've no plans to have anymore kids (2 is plenty). You say you think cruising would be more healthy than PCT. How long into a cruise would be best to see if you where still healthy? Is it just the toxicity of the PCT drugs you don't like? I've only done PCT once and I did feel awful for the first week, blurred vision and lathargic.


 I seem to have got missed :thumb


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> Going off of what you said above, i would recommend 300 mg of test E per week with E2 kept in a tight range of 15-42 pg/mL, this is the dosage where the androgenic effect of test gives a nice boost to fat loss, especially if E2 is kept in range.


 Is that range of E2 not quite low? Mine was 92 with a normal range quoted as 44-156 pmol/L when I was about 4 weeks post PCT and I thought it was ok


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Use both, you only need ralox to reverse gyno or prevent it on a cycle you know will give you gyno.
> 
> Dbol is the worst for gyno, it aromatizes into methy-estradiol instead of regular estradiol, a much more potent estrogen that is much harder to break down by the liver.


 Ralox actually reverses gyno? Would it work on gyno that's years old? Ie 10+ years? Could I use it now while on 200 test 375 tren per week for that purpose? what dose would I use?


----------



## Sphinkter

MrBishi said:


> Is that range of E2 not quite low? Mine was 92 with a normal range quoted as 44-156 pmol/L when I was about 4 weeks post PCT and I thought it was ok


 1pmol/l = 0.27pg/ml

So 15-42pg/ml = 55-154pmol/l

The Americans use pg/ml, in U.K. Its pmol/l. This site is handy for converting between units http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitconvert/Estradiol.php


----------



## Quackerz

@ghost.recon

@ElChapo

Cruising on mast year round on top of TRT, 200-300mg and blasting with winny at 200mg or so every now and then. I'm trying to stay athletic as possible i.e. Increasing my 40y dash time and vertical jump whilst also aiming to hit a 300 deadlift by the end of the year, is this a good sort of protocol to follow with my goals in mind? No aromatising compounds or 19-NORS. Will also be dosing small amounts of fast acting slin throughout along with a few peptides.


----------



## Bull Terrier

First of - thanks for enriching the forum so much.

Synthetek make some interesting products. One is injectable ATP - a guy I know says that it is great for local dosing of muscle pre-workout to get out more reps on higher rep sets and thus force muscle growth. Your thoughts?

One other question - what are your thoughts on dosing of orals (when used daily). Should we try to maintain stable blood levels and thus multiple dosing per day, depending perhaps on the individual half lives of the orals. Or else can we just take the fully daily dose in one go?


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> I seem to have got missed :thumb


 My bad, i thought i got all of them lmao.

Bulking cycle; Drugs will strongly come down to preference and goals. If you want to stay looking dry and lean, test can be kept at 300 mg per week max with AI. Winstrol will further increase strength and dryness along with tren. Test/Winny/Tren is perfect for a dry, lean mass bulk which will cause huge increases in strength. You can do something like *Cycle#1 Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg*. Calorie surplus+training will dictate your results on any cycle.

Certain compounds will encourage a specific looks, or a special property(deca for joints, etc). You should always tailor you cycle to your specific goals.

High test is great for mass and strength and very cheap, but those susceptible to gyno and don't want moon face/water retention for aesthetic or work purposes will want to keep it low. You will also find that specific compounds will treat you better than others, experimentation will help you find the compounds that give YOUR body that WOW factor in terms of gains and effects. Some people don't respond the same to specific hormones. Tren will drive some mad with depression and anxiety, and winstrol will cause debilitating joint pains in certain individuals. Both compounds are my favorite, tren puts me in a good mood/libido and erections are insane, winstrol makes me strong, dry and vascular with no hair loss or joint pain.

If you can handle the sides, high test/high tren is all you need for bulking, but results will be 90% training and nutrition. This cycle is extremely versatile for anything be it strength gains for powerlifting, mass gains for bodybuilding, or even cutting. *Cycle 2 # 500 mg-1 g test/500 mg- 1 g tren*. Always carry raloxifene for tren and run AI with +500 mg testosterone. Someone with less ambitious physique goals will not need huge doses, I see huge doses lead to no gains all the time because people think the drugs do 85% of the work and they do not, they only break the limits and enhance recovery and protein synthesis, you still have to push to the cart to the finish line.

If your girlfriend wants to bulk and is an advanced/elite natural athlete, put her on 30-50 mg of NPP, equivalent to 300-500 mg for a male. :thumb

#2 If tren treats you well and you like it, i would stick to it, it is very effective and usually people respond better to it in terms of gains than with deca. You never know if you will hate deca or get bad sides and regret starting off your winter bulk on it, but you already know how tren treats you and it's versatility should be taken advantage of, i would personally run the test/tren for bulk, but it treats me well so i am partial. Experimenting with deca wouldn't be a bad idea either as it's always good to try new things and expand your knowledge.

#3 all that time cruising, your levels may not get back to acceptable range (500 ng/dL minimum). Keeping your levels between 700-1,200 ng/dL with all lab work at optimal is infinitely more healthy than dropping the test, taking toxic pct drugs and waiting for levels to come back up if they ever do. The only benefit to cycling+PCT is that if the world ends, you may have a better chance of having good testosterone if you can't find a source, you don't have to inject once a week and you save a little money. If fertility is a concern cycle/PCT also makes more sense. It all depends on your goals. The PCT will confer zero advantage to your body, the blurriness you felt was from clomiphene which is highly toxic to the ocular system especially at PCT doses. Nolvadex can kill brain cells and cause brain fog and depression. You will receive no benefit from coming off at all. There is no "break" to be had if you are keeping levels and lab work in the physiological range, especially if you dont want anymore kids. A long history of blasting and cruising and trenbolone usage is more likely to predispose one to low test without TRT coming off.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Is that range of E2 not quite low? Mine was 92 with a normal range quoted as 44-156 pmol/L when I was about 4 weeks post PCT and I thought it was ok


 You need to convert my pg/mL range to pmol/L, just google a converter for it. Damn metric units lol

55.065-154.182 pmol/L will be most people's optimal range in your units.

Sadly even doctor's don't know the difference. If you find a good/smart/caring doctor, keep them. They are hard to find.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> My bad, i thought i got all of them lmao.
> 
> Bulking cycle; Drugs will strongly come down to preference and goals. If you want to stay looking dry and lean, test can be kept at 300 mg per week max with AI. Winstrol will further increase strength and dryness along with tren. Test/Winny/Tren is perfect for a dry, lean mass bulk which will cause huge increases in strength. You can do something like *Cycle#1 Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg*. Calorie surplus+training will dictate your results on any cycle.
> 
> Certain compounds will encourage a specific looks, or a special property(deca for joints, etc). You should always tailor you cycle to your specific goals.
> 
> High test is great for mass and strength and very cheap, but those susceptible to gyno and don't want moon face/water retention for aesthetic or work purposes will want to keep it low. You will also find that specific compounds will treat you better than others, experimentation will help you find the compounds that give YOUR body that WOW factor in terms of gains and effects. Some people don't respond the same to specific hormones. Tren will drive some mad with depression and anxiety, and winstrol will cause debilitating joint pains in certain individuals. Both compounds are my favorite, tren puts me in a good mood/libido and erections are insane, winstrol makes me strong, dry and vascular with no hair loss or joint pain.
> 
> If you can handle the sides, high test/high tren is all you need for bulking, but results will be 90% training and nutrition. This cycle is extremely versatile for anything be it strength gains for powerlifting, mass gains for bodybuilding, or even cutting. *Cycle 2 # 500 mg-1 g test/500 mg- 1 g tren*. Always carry raloxifene for tren and run AI with +500 mg testosterone. Someone with less ambitious physique goals will not need huge doses, I see huge doses lead to no gains all the time because people think the drugs do 85% of the work and they do not, they only break the limits and enhance recovery and protein synthesis, you still have to push to the cart to the finish line.
> 
> If your girlfriend wants to bulk and is an advanced/elite natural athlete, put her on 30-50 mg of NPP, equivalent to 300-500 mg for a male. :thumb
> 
> #2 If tren treats you well and you like it, i would stick to it, it is very effective and usually people respond better to it in terms of gains than with deca. You never know if you will hate deca or get bad sides and regret starting off your winter bulk on it, but you already know how tren treats you and it's versatility should be taken advantage of, i would personally run the test/tren for bulk, but it treats me well so i am partial. Experimenting with deca wouldn't be a bad idea either as it's always good to try new things and expand your knowledge.
> 
> #3 all that time cruising, your levels may not get back to acceptable range (500 ng/dL minimum). Keeping your levels between 700-1,200 ng/dL with all lab work at optimal is infinitely more healthy than dropping the test, taking toxic pct drugs and waiting for levels to come back up if they ever do. The only benefit to cycling+PCT is that if the world ends, you may have a better chance of having good testosterone if you can't find a source, you don't have to inject once a week and you save a little money. If fertility is a concern cycle/PCT also makes more sense. It all depends on your goals. The PCT will confer zero advantage to your body, the blurriness you felt was from clomiphene which is highly toxic to the ocular system especially at PCT doses. Nolvadex can kill brain cells and cause brain fog and depression. You will receive no benefit from coming off at all. There is no "break" to be had if you are keeping levels and lab work in the physiological range, especially if you dont want anymore kids. A long history of blasting and cruising and trenbolone usage is more likely to predispose one to low test without TRT coming off.


 What about eq?

I'm looking to lean bulk later in the year. What about 300 test, 900 eq, 60mg Tbol?


----------



## Tricky

Which routine and set rep range would you advise to maximise growth for someone who has just finished a long successful cut and introduced a 300kcal daily surplus along with 300mg test.

How much protein per lb body weight is really necessary from your experience

@ghost.recon @ElChapo


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## ElChapo

sen said:


> Ralox actually reverses gyno? Would it work on gyno that's years old? Ie 10+ years? Could I use it now while on 200 test 375 tren per week for that purpose? what dose would I use?


 Yeah, raloxifene has worked in very old pubertal gyno in studies with excellent efficacy. Grant it, older gyno is usally fibrotic, which is tougher to break down but it is worth a shot. Run it at 120 mg for one week and 60 mg for 11 weeks. That will be the best it will get. 12 weeks is what it takes for peak effects.

You can use 60 mg ED to stop it from growing until your cycle is over, it will also stop the flare up; tenderness/swelling. It does take +2 weeks to start working though, but it works.


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## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, raloxifene has worked in very old pubertal gyno in studies with excellent efficacy. Grant it, older gyno is usally fibrotic, which is tougher to break down but it is worth a shot. Run it at 120 mg for one week and 60 mg for 11 weeks. That will be the best it will get. 12 weeks is what it takes for peak effects.
> 
> You can use 60 mg ED to stop it from growing until your cycle is over, it will also stop the flare up; tenderness/swelling. It does take +2 weeks to start working though, but it works.


 It is a matter of staying on it long enough to down regulate all breast tissue activity. ER binding with E2 is important for cell survival, typical SERM therapy for breast cancer patients using tamoxifen typically 1-2 years minimum. So extrapolating that to our application, it makes sense that long term SERM use may be required for effective gyno intervention. A few weeks on it will lessen sensitivity but prolonged use is required for successful tissue reduction.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Which routine and set rep range would you advise to maximise growth for someone who has just finished a long successful cut and introduced a 300kcal daily surplus along with 300mg test.
> 
> How much protein per lb body weight is really necessary from your experience
> 
> @ghost.recon @ElChapo


 Any routine that favors you is fine as long as you stick to progressive overload and a mix of 5-12 rep range hitting all body parts x 2 a week. x 1 a week is enough but two times is optimal. It is good to mix powerlifting barbell movements with bodybuilding dumbbells/machines. This will give a good base of functional strength and build thickness. Remember, Arnold and the golden era lifters had a strong base of powerlifting in their routine. Ronnie coleman as well. It is just my opinion though.

During a bulk, less protein is necessary. Once nitrogen/amino acid is saturated to a certain point, the rest of the protein gets broken down into glucose for energy. More protein does not mean more muscle. High protein is effective for satiety purposes during a cut as it fills you up more than any other macro.

LBM x .80 protein (bulk/refeed)

LBM x 1-1.4 (cut)

The above guidelines will even work for natural trainees, someone on AAS can get away with less but i always stick to that. If you want more mass/calories that your body can actually use for muscle, up your carbohydrates. Keep fat lower during a bulk, as in a caloric surplus, it will only be added to your own fat cells.


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## ElChapo

sen said:


> What about eq?
> 
> I'm looking to lean bulk later in the year. What about 300 test, 900 eq, 60mg Tbol?


 EQ is a cool drug, it does aromatize but closer to 20% like deca, it's a pretty dry compound and notorious for vascularity. It is said that a lot of successful middle eastern bodybuilders base their cycles off EQ instead of test. It's also where we get our recently popular drug, DHB. I believe it as i have experiment with zero test and it treated me well.

I would throw in a little tren (200-300 mg) just for it's nutrient repartioning properties, it will keep the fat down further, but that cycle looks good.

What will mainly dictate if it's a lean bulk or not is if you find the optimal caloric surplus where you eat just enough for muscle gains without much spillage to fat. At a certain point, extra calories don't lead to extra muscle. The leaner you are, the more you can usually up the calories without extra fat gain.


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## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> It is a matter of staying on it long enough to down regulate all breast tissue activity. ER binding with E2 is important for cell survival, typical SERM therapy for breast cancer patients using tamoxifen typically 1-2 years minimum. So extrapolating that to our application, it makes sense that long term SERM use may be required for effective gyno intervention. A few weeks on it will lessen sensitivity but prolonged use is required for successful tissue reduction.


 Exactly, in the studies PEAK results were seen in 12 weeks. Staying on for longer will be more effective, but for most people with mild cases, 12 weeks would have eradicated the gyno or shrunken enough to the point that it's not a problem.


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## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Any routine that favors you is fine as long as you stick to progressive overload and a mix of 5-12 rep range hitting all body parts x 2 a week. x 1 a week is enough but two times is optimal. It is good to mix powerlifting barbell movements with bodybuilding dumbbells/machines. This will give a good base of functional strength and build thickness. Remember, Arnold and the golden era lifters had a strong base of powerlifting in their routine. Ronnie coleman as well. It is just my opinion though.
> 
> During a bulk, less protein is necessary. Once nitrogen/amino acid is saturated to a certain point, the rest of the protein gets broken down into glucose for energy. More protein does not mean more muscle. High protein is effective for satiety purposes during a cut as it fills you up more than any other macro.
> 
> LBM x .80 protein (bulk/refeed)
> 
> LBM x 1-1.4 (cut)
> 
> The above guidelines will even work for natural trainees, someone on AAS can get away with less but i always stick to that. If you want more mass/calories that your body can actually use for muscle, up your carbohydrates. Keep fat lower during a bulk, as in a caloric surplus, it will only be added to your own fat cells.


 Great thanks. I can only train 4 times a week for 45-50mins a session due to childcare, Work an gym opening times so hard to hit body part twice unless I implement a upper/lower split

currently I do a standard bro split

how do I actually work out my LBM? I'm going to get one of the guys down the gym MRI do the Caliper test as I've no clue what my BF% is apart from far to high e.g. 20-30lbs too high


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## ghost.recon

Tricky said:


> Great thanks. I can only train 4 times a week for 45-50mins a session due to childcare, Work an gym opening times so hard to hit body part twice unless I implement a upper/lower split
> 
> currently I do a standard bro split
> 
> how do I actually work out my LBM? I'm going to get one of the guys down the gym MRI do the Caliper test as I've no clue what my BF% is apart from far to high e.g. 20-30lbs too high


 DEXA scan is the most reliable at the moment


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## Tricky

ghost.recon said:


> DEXA scan is the most reliable at the moment


 I don't have any facilities near me that offer than service unfortunately. I know callipers aren't the best but they will give me a base idea where I'm starting at before taking any test then get iit down every 8 weeks to monitor progress


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Great thanks. I can only train 4 times a week for 45-50mins a session due to childcare, Work an gym opening times so hard to hit body part twice unless I implement a upper/lower split
> 
> currently I do a standard bro split
> 
> how do I actually work out my LBM? I'm going to get one of the guys down the gym MRI do the Caliper test as I've no clue what my BF% is apart from far to high e.g. 20-30lbs too high


 This sounds good, standard bro split has built great physiques. Throw in some parallel/ATG squats and deadlifts. They will build nice thickness and strength that will carry over to all your other lifts. Note that from an aesthetics point of view, incline bench is superior to flat bench.

Use visual estimation of your BF levels or watch this video






This method is very accurate and highly recommend it. You need a caliper and they are quite cheap, some supplement shops even carry them. Once you get a percentage use that to calculate how many lbs of your total body weight is fat, subtract that number for your total and you will have your LBM.


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I don't have any facilities near me that offer than service unfortunately. I know callipers aren't the best but they will give me a base idea where I'm starting at before taking any test then get iit down every 8 weeks to monitor progress


 note that even dexa scan be off by a significant percentage. At the end of the day, what matters is most is that you like how you look regardless of the numbers on the scale/dexa/barbell etc.

Visual estimation is usually enough for calculating LBM, being off by a couple of grams wont make you shrink or lose out on gains. Once the threshold for protein is passed, carbs will be the major anabolic macro in the diet plan as it is a more efficient fuel for energy and growth and will also increase insulin/IGF-1 not to mention it's easier to eat boxes of cereal than pounds/kilos of chicken breast.


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## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> This sounds good, standard bro split has built great physiques. Throw in some parallel/ATG squats and deadlifts. They will build nice thickness and strength that will carry over to all your other lifts. Note that from an aesthetics point of view, incline bench is superior to flat bench.
> 
> Use visual estimation of your BF levels or watch this video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This method is very accurate and highly recommend it. You need a caliper and they are quite cheap, some supplement shops even carry them. Once you get a percentage use that to calculate how many lbs of your total body weight is fat, subtract that number for your total and you will have your LBM.


 http://www.aspirefitnesslab.com/bod-pod-body-composition/

is this bod pod what will tell me my LBM accurately? It's quite cheap and worth while if it is so I've an accurate reading for a starting point


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> http://www.aspirefitnesslab.com/bod-pod-body-composition/
> 
> is this bod pod what will tell me my LBM accurately? It's quite cheap and worth while if it is so I've an accurate reading for a starting point


 One study found that DEXA can be off by up to 10 percentage points. Two others found DEXA's error rates to be upward of 4 points.One study found that DEXA can be off by up to 10 percentage points. Two others found DEXA's error rates to be upward of 4 points.

*Well, we already know that hydrostatic weighing often yields faulty measurements, and it appears that the Bod Pod is even less accurate.*

Its readings can be influenced by a many factors, including body temperature, facial hair, moisture, and even the tightness of a person's clothing.


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## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> http://www.aspirefitnesslab.com/bod-pod-body-composition/
> 
> is this bod pod what will tell me my LBM accurately? It's quite cheap and worth while if it is so I've an accurate reading for a starting point


 It's all f**ked brother, honestly, the single point caliper test is fu**ing accurate as hell for me and my GF. I recommend that + visual and you will get a pretty close measurement for free.


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## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> One study found that DEXA can be off by up to 10 percentage points. Two others found DEXA's error rates to be upward of 4 points.One study found that DEXA can be off by up to 10 percentage points. Two others found DEXA's error rates to be upward of 4 points.
> 
> *Well, we already know that hydrostatic weighing often yields faulty measurements, and it appears that the Bod Pod is even less accurate.*
> 
> Its readings can be influenced by a many factors, including body temperature, facial hair, moisture, and even the tightness of a person's clothing.


 there is reliability, accuracy and consistency. if you are going to use a dexa scan, at least use the same one only. that way your accuracy rate is consistent with each data set


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## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> there is reliability, accuracy and consistency. if you are going to use a dexa scan, at least use the same one only. that way your accuracy rate is consistent with each data set


 Yeah and you need to emulate all the variables from the last scan. Hydration levels, etc can affect results.


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## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Yeah and you need to emulate all the variables from the last scan. Hydration levels, etc can affect results.


 if you emulate everything then the data will be consistent and we can at least extra some understanding and information from them. making the best of a bad situation


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## DORIAN

Hello. You talk about Winstrol. Would you recommend it for a bulk in place of a "wet oral" cheers


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## ghost.recon

DORIAN said:


> Hello. You talk about Winstrol. Would you recommend it for a bulk in place of a "wet oral" cheers


 Why not?


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## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hello. You talk about Winstrol. Would you recommend it for a bulk in place of a "wet oral" cheers


 Winstrol is an excellent tissue and strength builder and an amazing hardener and vascularity compound. People mistake water and bloof for mass.

The best compromise is to combine your wet oral such as DBOL in 1:1 ratio with winstrol. ie 25-50 mg/25-50 mg of each. This will give you some synergy and limit the water that wet compounds give you.

The idea that water leads to more gains/strength etc is bullshit. You look at olympic weight lifters like pyros dimas, dry and <10% bodyfat, or jesse norris/Dan Green, two of the strongest men alive competing in powerlifting @ sub 10% bodyfat, or even stan efferding, an IFBB pro and also one of the strongest men alive who maintains a shredded state year round while totaling+2K in his lifts. Water just leads to extra stress on your heart and kidneys and makes you look and feel like s**t. For a guy trying to squeeze out EVERY last possible avenue for strength and hit 1,000 lbs deadlift, sure, but for 99% of the population, no.


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is an excellent tissue and strength builder and an amazing hardener and vascularity compound. People mistake water and bloof for mass.
> 
> The best compromise is to combine your wet oral such as DBOL in 1:1 ratio with winstrol. ie 25-50 mg/25-50 mg of each. This will give you some synergy and limit the water that wet compounds give you.
> 
> The idea that water leads to more gains/strength etc is bullshit. You look at olympic weight lifters like pyros dimas, dry and <10% bodyfat, or jesse norris/Dan Green, two of the strongest men alive competing in powerlifting @ sub 10% bodyfat, or even stan efferding, an IFBB pro and also one of the strongest men alive who maintains a shredded state year round while totaling+2K in his lifts. Water just leads to extra stress on your heart and kidneys and makes you look and feel like s**t. For a guy trying to squeeze out EVERY last possible avenue for strength and hit 1,000 lbs deadlift, sure, but for 99% of the population, no.


 Brillant thanks. Only used it once

Gogga give it a try in a bulk


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## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Brillant thanks. Only used it once
> 
> Gogga give it a try in a bulk


 It's versatility is only matched by tren and test. Give it a shot, you will be pleased.


----------



## DORIAN

ghost.recon said:


> Why not?


 Just it get a big rep for being a cutting drug even though there isn't such a thing. Lol


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Just it get a big rep for being a cutting drug even though there isn't such a thing. Lol


 Exactly, diet and training will always dictate the results of a cycle. I know guys who get ripped and dry on test only. It's a question of bodyfat percentage and E2 control. Certain drugs will bring out more of the freak look by further drying out the skin, increasing vascularity and adding pump to the muscle. That is all.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> EQ is a cool drug, it does aromatize but closer to 20% like deca, it's a pretty dry compound and notorious for vascularity. It is said that a lot of successful middle eastern bodybuilders base their cycles off EQ instead of test. It's also where we get our recently popular drug, DHB. I believe it as i have experiment with zero test and it treated me well.
> 
> I would throw in a little tren (200-300 mg) just for it's nutrient repartioning properties, it will keep the fat down further, but that cycle looks good.
> 
> What will mainly dictate if it's a lean bulk or not is if you find the optimal caloric surplus where you eat just enough for muscle gains without much spillage to fat. At a certain point, extra calories don't lead to extra muscle. The leaner you are, the more you can usually up the calories without extra fat gain.


 Yeah I learnt that last "bulk".

Think every excess calorie I consumed was stored as fat! My problem is I struggle to eat the right amount for long enough so I over eat from the beginning and get fat.


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## ElChapo

sen said:


> Yeah I learnt that last "bulk".
> 
> Think every excess calorie I consumed was stored as fat! My problem is I struggle to eat the right amount for long enough so I over eat from the beginning and get fat.


 Yeah, excess fat gain on a bulk cycle is just more time you will waste in a catabolic state trying to trim down. If you limit excess fat gain on a bulk, you will have shorter cut cycles and be back on track building lean tissue quicker.


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo

does more GH and insulin lead to more muscle gain or is there a point of diminishing return?


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> does more GH and insulin lead to more muscle gain or is there a point of diminishing return?


 Generally, if your diet and training can sustain the growth, more will increase the gains you get, but we are talking about elite level physiques that require doses like this to maximize training and nutrition.

If you aren't at that level yet and your nutrition and traning aren't to par, it's just a waste.

Remember that all that insulin is doing is increasing the threshold of how many nutrients can be shuttled into the cell(muscle/fat). GH is further increasing the limit of how much mass you can hold. If you aren't at that limit, taking more slin/GH will do nothing for you. At best, you will get faster tissue growth, but with diminishing returns.


----------



## Tonynico

Thoughts on winstrol as a kick starter?


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Thoughts on winstrol as a kick starter?


 Really good, my gf ran winny as a kick starter for her NPP cycle. It was perfect. I am a fan of running orals through a cycle as they are not as dangerous as they are made out to be. 4 weeks max is really limiting the potential of these great drugs.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Really good, my gf ran winny as a kick starter for her NPP cycle. It was perfect. I am a fan of running orals through a cycle as they are not as dangerous as they are made out to be. 4 weeks max is really limiting the potential of these great drugs.


 Okay thanks spread the dose out or all at once?


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## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Okay thanks spread the dose out or all at once?


 Once daily is enough. Remember, Half-life is not the end all. GH has a very short half life, we dose this once a day, yet we still get results. Once daily is enough contrary to popular belief.

Taking piperine supplement(black pepper extract) will increase your blood levels by a huge amount because it blocks the liver enzyme that breaks down AAS. This will also enhance toxicity so always run TUDCA when you do this.


----------



## 18650

If nandrolone only aromatises at 20% of what testosterone does why does it lead to water retention? If oestrogen is controlled will water retention be kept to a minimum or is there another factor that causes it? They say nandrolone aromatises less that boldenone does but boldenone generally gives users lean, dry gains, why is this?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> If nandrolone only aromatises at 20% of what testosterone does why does it lead to water retention? If oestrogen is controlled will water retention be kept to a minimum or is there another factor that causes it? They say nandrolone aromatises less that boldenone does but boldenone generally gives users lean, dry gains, why is this?
> 
> Thank you


 Androgens can cause water retention independent of E2. They stimulate renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system which regulates fluid balance, electrolyte levels and blood pressure. Different hormones affect this system at different rates. Some will notice that test can still make them hold water even with AI. This is the reason that happens. Hormones are VERY complex and a lot of the actions and effects of the other AAS are still a mystery to us.


----------



## zariph

Thoughts on prohormones or sarm only cycle for bulking? Can you keep what you get during cycle or is test the only option?


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> Bulking cycle; Drugs will strongly come down to preference and goals. If you want to stay looking dry and lean, test can be kept at 300 mg per week max with AI. Winstrol will further increase strength and dryness along with tren. Test/Winny/Tren is perfect for a dry, lean mass bulk which will cause huge increases in strength. You can do something like *Cycle#1 Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg*. Calorie surplus+training will dictate your results on any cycle.
> 
> Certain compounds will encourage a specific looks, or a special property(deca for joints, etc). You should always tailor you cycle to your specific goals.


 My first cycle was actually Winstrol only and had no problems with it funnily enough. My initial experiences with Ace did make me wonder what it would be like in a calorie surplus, ive been struggling to not eat everything in sight during this Tren cut so appetite doesn't seem to be affected. The only worry I have is reacting differently to the long ester version of Tren.

What do you think of adding only a small amount of Deca for joint relief? I seem to remember that as little as 50mg per week can be medically beneficial.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thoughts on prohormones or sarm only cycle for bulking? Can you keep what you get during cycle or is test the only option?


 I'm not a fan of prohormones. A lot of the times they are more toxic and have more side effects with much less benefit for the physique.

Keeping what you get out of any cycle will be determined by many factors. The most important being your hormone levels post-cycle(Cruising/TRT/PCT) and your training and diet. Another important factor is how much size you gain past your natural limit. Most people can only attain an FFMI(Fat free mass index) of 24-25 naturally, and that's with great genetics. To break the natty limit of 25, you need AAS unless you are a genetic freak. http://www.naturalphysiques.com/28/fat-free-mass-index-ffmi <----- Use this calculator to measure your FFMI. You BF% needs to be accurate for accurate results. Most guy will underestimate their BF and think they carry more lean mass than they do.

Test is not the only option, many bodybuilders run successful test-less cycles. Test is a great compound though and can support energy and well-being when e2 is kept in check, and it's cheap as hell too. This is why you will see test 90% of time. Other can't keep their dick hard and their libido up without testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> My first cycle was actually Winstrol only and had no problems with it funnily enough. My initial experiences with Ace did make me wonder what it would be like in a calorie surplus, ive been struggling to not eat everything in sight during this Tren cut so appetite doesn't seem to be affected. The only worry I have is reacting differently to the long ester version of Tren.
> 
> What do you think of adding only a small amount of Deca for joint relief? I seem to remember that as little as 50mg per week can be medically beneficial.


 Exactly, some guys get great results from winstrol only, deca only etc and feel fine. Everyone is different.

You're hunch about long vs short ester tren is correct in my case. Tren E shuts down my appetite and gives me gastric reflux. Tren A over 300 MG per week causes gyno.

Low dose deca is a nice support compound for TRT and AAS stacks. Many run it @ 100-150 with TRT for the joint effect and a little boost for strength and body composition. My SO even feels the joint benefits @ 60 mg per week of NPP.


----------



## ElChapo

Edit: double post


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> Androgens can cause water retention independent of E2. They stimulate renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system which regulates fluid balance, electrolyte levels and blood pressure. Different hormones affect this system at different rates. Some will notice that test can still make them hold water even with AI. This is the reason that happens. Hormones are VERY complex and a lot of the actions and effects of the other AAS are still a mystery to us.


 Once again ElChapo, your expertise is really appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Once again ElChapo, you're expertise is really appreciated. Thank you.


 Thank you for the hospitality, much appreciated.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Hcg will usually increase estradiol by a clinically significant amount which is another reason many choose not to run it. It's no doubt a useful compound.


 I crushed my e2 by sticking to normal aromasin dosage of 12.5eod but forgetting I'm not running hcg, now on 12.5 mon/thurs and even that may be too much on 600mg test alone


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I crushed my e2 by sticking to normal aromasin dosage of 12.5eod but forgetting I'm not running hcg, now on 12.5 mon/thurs and even that may be too much on 600mg test alone


 For you yes, everyone is different.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> For you yes, everyone is different.


 I was just reinforcing this for the benefit of people not saying what dosage was correct for people


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I was just reinforcing this for the benefit of people not saying what dosage was correct for people


 Yeah, a conservative starter dose is something i recommend. Lowish E2 isn't as bad as high E2. Shutdown E2 really sucks though, and gyno sucks worst of all.


----------



## Tazz

Whats your opinion on Sibutramine for fat loss? I've tried most other stims and ''fat burners'' before, and they've all been decent to me, never tried Sib though.


----------



## ghost.recon

Tazz said:


> Whats your opinion on Sibutramine for fat loss? I've tried most other stims and ''fat burners'' before, and they've all been decent to me, never tried Sib though.


 As an appetite suppressant it is great, don't feel the need to binge or eat much. Allows you to maintain and stay in a calorie deficit for longer which will over time facilitate fat loss goals. Combined with solid training, good quality AAS, and other fat loss tools/meds it will no doubt assist you in getting cut.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

I always used Nolva 20mg ed and Aromasin (dosage vary) during cycles as I am gyno prone

What on cycle protection would you suggest?

I read in some earlier reply that ElChapo you don't advise the use of Nolva, can Raloxifene be used instead?

Or can Aromasin be enough on it's own for on cycle protection?


----------



## ghost.recon

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> I always used Nolva 20mg ed and Aromasin (dosage vary) during cycles as I am gyno prone
> 
> What on cycle protection would you suggest?
> 
> I read in some earlier reply that ElChapo you don't advise the use of Nolva, can Raloxifene be used instead?
> 
> Or can Aromasin be enough on it's own for on cycle protection?


 As mentioned, nolva can be neurotoxic and reduce IGF1 levels. Actually scrap that, it is neurotoxic as shown in various studies which I can link if needed.

Raloxifene is a second generation SERM, does the same desired roles as nolva which is selective binding at the breast level to ER but it also is an agonist at the bone level and helps increase BMD, because of this it is used to treat osteo. It has also been shown to improve cognition in those with impairment which further demonstrates the importance of steroids for proper cerebral function. steroids are neuronally active and other studies have shown metabolites of testosterone ie DHT to be anti inflammatory in the brain.

I am also sensitive to gyno and would also include a SERM and AI as part of any cycle my choice being raloxifene and aromasin.

Think of the estrogen receptor at the breast level as an engine. Estrogen being the fuel. AI is used to reduce circulating levels of estrogen ie the FUEL SOURCE. Raloxifene as an engine jammer. By jamming the engine (ER) this stops the fuel from reaching the engine properly and thus preventing the stimulation and progression of gyno.

The body needs a certain level of estrogen for other normal physiological processes such as liver function, using an AI alone to prevent gyno would crush estrogen too much and give you unwanted side effects of low estrogen. The use of a SERM alone will help prevent gyno development but you will still have high circulating levels of estrogen which will also cause unwanted side effects such as water retention, fat gain, increase BP and alter mood.


----------



## brutus beefcake

ElChapo said:


> *Cycle#1 Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg*


 Delighted to hear this.

Just started a bulk cycle with Test E 300 and Tren A 175 two weeks ago. Strength gain already is unbelieveable.

Going to add in the winny soon.



How long can i run the winny at 350 pw?


How does tren add so much strength even in a short timeframe?


Do you ever keep tren in a cruse?


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ghost.recon said:


> As mentioned, nolva can be neurotoxic and reduce IGF1 levels. Actually scrap that, it is neurotoxic as shown in various studies which I can link if needed.
> 
> Raloxifene is a second generation SERM, does the same desired roles as nolva which is selective binding at the breast level to ER but it also is an agonist at the bone level and helps increase BMD, because of this it is used to treat osteo. It has also been shown to improve cognition in those with impairment which further demonstrates the importance of steroids for proper cerebral function. steroids are neuronally active and other studies have shown metabolites of testosterone ie DHT to be anti inflammatory in the brain.
> 
> I am also sensitive to gyno and would also include a SERM and AI as part of any cycle my choice being raloxifene and aromasin.
> 
> Think of the estrogen receptor at the breast level as an engine. Estrogen being the fuel. AI is used to reduce circulating levels of estrogen ie the FUEL SOURCE. Raloxifene as an engine jammer. By jamming the engine (ER) this stops the fuel from reaching the engine properly and thus preventing the stimulation and progression of gyno.
> 
> The body needs a certain level of estrogen for other normal physiological processes such as liver function, using an AI alone to prevent gyno would crush estrogen too much and give you unwanted side effects of low estrogen. The use of a SERM alone will help prevent gyno development but you will still have high circulating levels of estrogen which will also cause unwanted side effects such as water retention, fat gain, increase BP and alter mood.


 Great thanks!

One more, how long (roughly) Nolva will stay in your system before to be gone for good once one's stop taking it?


----------



## ghost.recon

IronJohnDoe said:


> Great thanks!
> 
> One more, how long (roughly) Nolva will stay in your system before to be gone for good once one's stop taking it?


 5-7 day biological half life. but that doesn't indicate clearance time and detection in the system. most of ingested nolvadex is bound to binding proteins hence why daily dosing is required to achieve stable functional levels of the drug.


----------



## Pancake'

I ask, what training, do you both buy into? I'm aware different methods are required at different stages, but when you both train, how do you train? low volume/high frequency is being preached and favoured by a lot of gym rats now. personally, I'm someone, that implements great deals of volume to my training, but each to their own.

I want to bring up the smaller muscle groups. more specifically; Abs, Calves, Forearms, Neck and Grip. I work on a 4 day split, which consists of being; Upper/Lower/Upper/Full Body. granted these are small muscle groups, but I am thinking of including either training them everyday or every other day. how would you go about training such smaller muscle groups, given some are being hit directly to a good degree a lot, when performing compound lifts.

What do you think of taking something like Viagra pre workout, purely just for a temporarily cosmetic purpose, that being to take advantage of the increase N.O to deliver a great pump.

Greatly appreciated


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> I always used Nolva 20mg ed and Aromasin (dosage vary) during cycles as I am gyno prone
> 
> What on cycle protection would you suggest?
> 
> I read in some earlier reply that ElChapo you don't advise the use of Nolva, can Raloxifene be used instead?
> 
> Or can Aromasin be enough on it's own for on cycle protection?


 Ralox is will not only be much more effective than nolvadex for gyno prevention/reversal, it's toxicology profile is much better. It will improve bone density and cholesterol.

Technically, aromasin should be enough for you to prevent gyno.

what compounds are you running that are giving you issues and are you sure your aromasin is legit?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> I ask, what training, do you both buy into? I'm aware different methods are required at different stages, but when you both train, how do you train? low volume/high frequency is being preached and favoured by a lot of gym rats now. personally, I'm someone, that implements great deals of volume to my training, but each to their own.
> 
> I want to bring up the smaller muscle groups. more specifically; Abs, Calves, Forearms, Neck and Grip. I work on a 4 day split, which consists of being; Upper/Lower/Upper/Full Body. granted these are small muscle groups, but I am thinking of including either training them everyday or every other day. how would you go about training such smaller muscle groups, given some are being hit directly to a good degree a lot, when performing compound lifts.
> 
> What do you think of taking something like Viagra pre workout, purely just for a temporarily cosmetic purpose, that being to take advantage of the increase N.O to deliver a great pump.
> 
> Greatly appreciated


 I stick to the basic principles of progressive overload. The routine is not important as long as you are training each muscle group 1-2 x per week and increase your reps or weight on each movement. I like a mix of powerlifting with barbells and classic bodybuilding movements with dumbbells and machines. Caloric surplus and progressive overload will give you 90% of your results. Keep it simple and focus on the basics. Extra volume will help bring up lagging bodyparts.


----------



## Dead lee

What's your opinion on athletes using PED's, do you think most do.. Do you think the testing is passable, you see the likes of Anthony Joshua being in good shape hitting 113 kg pretty lean passing tests what's your take on it?


----------



## ghost.recon

Dead lee said:


> What's your opinion on athletes using PED's, do you think most do.. Do you think the testing is passable, you see the likes of Anthony Joshua being in good shape hitting 113 kg pretty lean passing tests what's your take on it?


 The banned substance list is not there to adhere to and tell you what not to take, it is a list of what not to get caught taking.


----------



## gcortese

I've recently had a really bad flare of gyno out of the blue. Still haven't figured out what caused it but it's under control and slowly shrinking now on

no test and masteron, but I am switchingto dhb in a couple days. 20 nolva daily and some aromasin here and there as needed when I've tried to reintroduce some test

I basically seem to be aromatising way more than before is this because I've used so little test for a long period of time?

I am unsure on how to proceed with adding test back in. I have some test phenyl prop and pharma test e to use. I don't want my gyno to come back but no test is getting rough.


----------



## ElChapo

Dead lee said:


> What's your opinion on athletes using PED's, do you think most do.. Do you think the testing is passable, you see the likes of Anthony Joshua being in good shape hitting 113 kg pretty lean passing tests what's your take on it?


 Most elite athletes are on PEDs, beating tests is a matter of timing. Using esterless drugs and knowing their detection times of their metabolites is the ticket.

For example, one of the ways to detect exogenous testosterone usage is by testing testosterone:epitestosterone ratio. When you take exogenous test, this ratio is skewed. PEDs experts get around this by giving athletes epitestosterone cream. It is a science and an art but rest assured that most are using.

Passing a test means nothing


----------



## ElChapo

gcortese said:


> I've recently had a really bad flare of gyno out of the blue. Still haven't figured out what caused it but it's under control and slowly shrinking now on
> 
> no test and masteron, but I am switchingto dhb in a couple days. 20 nolva daily and some aromasin here and there as needed when I've tried to reintroduce some test
> 
> I basically seem to be aromatising way more than before is this because I've used so little test for a long period of time?
> 
> I am unsure on how to proceed with adding test back in. I have some test phenyl prop and pharma test e to use. I don't want my gyno to come back but no test is getting rough.


 What were you on exactly when you got the flare up? Is your AI pharma grade or UGL/"research"?


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> Ralox is will not only be much more effective than nolvadex for gyno prevention/reversal, it's toxicology profile is much better. It will improve bone density and cholesterol.
> 
> Technically, aromasin should be enough for you to prevent gyno.
> 
> what compounds are you running that are giving you issues and are you sure your aromasin is legit?


 Yes Aromasin it comes from pharmacy

At the moment I'm blasting at 1g of test E and 1g of Equi

to be honest I could try to just run Aromasin as my nibbles are hard as rocks at the moment, I will keep the ralox on hand just in case

thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> Yes Aromasin it comes from pharmacy
> 
> At the moment I'm blasting at 1g of test E and 1g of Equi
> 
> to be honest I could try to just run Aromasin as my nibbles are hard as rocks at the moment, I will keep the ralox on hand just in case
> 
> thanks!


 That's a high dose of test, you could replace some of that with a dryer compound or experiment with letrozole.

test and EQ will both aromatize. Many people need 1 mg adex DAILY to control e2 on a gram of test and you have that and more.

There are many options too choose from.

Keep running aromasin, dont bring out ralox until you get a flare up, if you do, ralox will kill it fast and permanently.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> That's a high dose of test, you could replace some of that with a dryer compound or experiment with letrozole.
> 
> test and EQ will both aromatize. Many people need 1 mg adex DAILY to control e2 on a gram of test and you have that and more.
> 
> There are many options too choose from.


 I see. To be fair I never went that high on test, but I wanted to see my cap (which is definitely 1g wouldn't go any higher)

I normally stay on 500mg before that the higher was 750mg

The thing is I tried other compounds and let's say that my body "disagree" with them

For example Tren is amazing yes but my "character tendencies" make it a no no for me (done 1 cycle and risked to go jail, get divorces tren makes me aggressive bipolar)

Deca give me "deca dick" (reversed thanks god) twice and i had to drop it (I used pharma caber, regardless of the dosage down there was dead lol) and it's a shame as it was some packing size compound

and lastly Masteron it's the ONLY steroid that make my hairs fall crazy (funny as I have NO male baldness in my family, not even winny make me shred hairs no orals or injectable make me lose a single hair)

So I guess my options are limited to play with test and equi

Never used Adex

EDIT: Letro neither as I read quite a few horror stories on the zero libido issues with it, also I thought Aromasin was better


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Is it true that the more one uses Aromasin continuously the more you get sensible to it? (and so need to taper down the dosage?)


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Is it true that the more one uses Aromasin continuously the more you get sensible to it? (and so need to taper down the dosage?)


 It can happen sometimes to people, i would run dose until you feel it might be dropping E2 too low.

500 mg test+350 mg winny will do more than 1 g of test for you, and you will look much better and be stronger.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo

what's your thoughts about Meldonium?

Does it find it's place in the bodybuilding/sport world?

Safety vs effectiveness?

I read about the benefits in mood enanchement, increased stamina, improved recovery, better response of the CNS to the training

it sounds too good to be true to be fair

And if is really that good, should or shouldn't be mixed with steroids?

(Nah I am not running to buy it anyway, surely not on a Blast, but I would give it a thought while on a cruise)


----------



## brutus beefcake

ElChapo said:


> Cycle#1 Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg


 Delighted to hear this.

Just started a bulk cycle with Test E 300 and Tren A 175 two weeks ago. Strength gain already is unbelieveable.

Going to add in the winny soon.



How long can i run the winny at 350 pw?


How does tren add so much strength even in a short timeframe?


Do you ever keep tren in on a cruise?


----------



## gcortese

ElChapo said:


> What were you on exactly when you got the flare up? Is your AI pharma grade or UGL/"research"?


 The flare up happened on in almost out of date alpha pharma Anavar 50mg ed, 500mg of their test e, and t4. Ive taken it all out and it started getting better. Added in t4 and it flared up again with just taking the masteron.

Nolva at the start was alpha pharma Nolva and aromasin was sphinx. I'm now using proper pharma of both.

Being off test for so long makes me scared of putting it back in because i don't wanna aromatise like crazy.

I've never reacted like this in the last 5 years or blast and cruise so no idea how to proceed.

Thanks: )


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> It can happen sometimes to people, i would run dose until you feel it might be dropping E2 too low.
> 
> *500 mg test+350 mg winny will do more than 1 g of test for you, and you will look much better and be stronger.*


 After speaking to you y'day I think I'll change my npp cycle to this instead

Do you think injectable winny would be better if so how would you dose and pin it ie freaquancy or can you use tabs for the duration of the course 12 wks or is that to much for orals ??


----------



## ReRaise

@ghost.recon @El Chapo

I've been blast/cruising for the last couple of years with a pct and 6 week break before doing this years long off season test/NPP run, and straight into a test/tren/mast/var/winny prep run....

I'll be finished with the prep cycle in around 10 weeks, after which time I'm planning on power PCT followed by a good break off everything with the main priority of getting the mrs pregnant.

The whole time I've been running arimidex and caber, and been periodically blasting hcg every couple of months.

My question is, what would give me the most chance of getting the mrs pregnant, the sooner the better.... between running the power pct/time off vs dropping to trt level test along with HCG?

I'm 35 and would like to try recover natural test at some point if I can, although if subjected to having to trt for the rest of my life that's a decision I'm happy with. My main priority after this season is getting the mrs pregnant though, so whichever would give me the best chance of that in the shortest time frame.

Would appreciate any input from the experts.


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> It can happen sometimes to people, i would run dose until you feel it might be dropping E2 too low.
> 
> 500 mg test+350 mg winny will do more than 1 g of test for you, and you will look much better and be stronger.


 DI you only take injection winny

Or oral as well mate?


----------



## SlinMeister

I will redo this question to you @ElChapo. ..

I am 35 y old. Not interested in having kids so I will blast and cruise.

Since now I just kept rotating AAS every 8 weeks with 5iu HGH during wo days. Kept always test at 500 (300 E 200 P).

My main concern is staying aesthetic as f**k. Dry lean. Grow but not much I mean it will be ok to sacrifice some growth to stay aesthetic as much as I can.

1) Which AAS/protocol will you suggest?

2) I was thinking to just keep doing:

8w 400 TestPP 400 TrenA 350-400 Winstrol

8w 400 TestPP 800 EQ 400 MastE

5iu HGH on WO days with 5iu Humalog postwo

T3 at 25mcg ed 60mcg Clen eod all year

High carbs on WO days

Low carbs on non wo days with cardio


----------



## ElChapo

gcortese said:


> The flare up happened on in almost out of date alpha pharma Anavar 50mg ed, 500mg of their test e, and t4. Ive taken it all out and it started getting better. Added in t4 and it flared up again with just taking the masteron.
> 
> Nolva at the start was alpha pharma Nolva and aromasin was sphinx. I'm now using proper pharma of both.
> 
> Being off test for so long makes me scared of putting it back in because i don't wanna aromatise like crazy.
> 
> I've never reacted like this in the last 5 years or blast and cruise so no idea how to proceed.
> 
> Thanks: )


 Possibilities are var being contaminated with dbol, bunk or underdosed ancillaries, and hyperthyroidism increases aromatization. How much T4 were you taking?


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what's your thoughts about Meldonium?
> 
> Does it find it's place in the bodybuilding/sport world?
> 
> Safety vs effectiveness?
> 
> I read about the benefits in mood enanchement, increased stamina, improved recovery, better response of the CNS to the training
> 
> it sounds too good to be true to be fair
> 
> And if is really that good, should or shouldn't be mixed with steroids?
> 
> (Nah I am not running to buy it anyway, surely not on a Blast, but I would give it a thought while on a cruise)


 I will defer this one to @ghost.recon, he has more expertise on this particular compound.


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> After speaking to you y'day I think I'll change my npp cycle to this instead
> 
> Do you think injectable winny would be better if so how would you dose and pin it ie freaquancy or can you use tabs for the duration of the course 12 wks or is that to much for orals ??


 Injectable is more bioavailable and will hit you faster and harder. You will have to inject a lot though as concentration per mg tends to be low with winstrol oil based. i would not touch suspension unless you have a high tolerance for PIP. Daily/EOD frequency depending on volume.

Oral is more convenient as you bypass pinning, but liver will have to work harder metabolizing. TUDCA will have you covered. 12 weeks of winny with TUDCA is the max i would run. at 50 mg or less. 6-8 weeks for 100 mg ED.


----------



## supertesty

Hi @ElChapoI used win one time and it was awesome. I didnt retry since that time because I feel my joints dry and I work heavy, im too scared about injuries. Anything to avoid this ? D3 is sufficient really or there is stil la risk ?

About this guys, I work pretty heavy whole the year and I had 2 little injuries in 2months (very little tear with no aesthetic impact) I start to feel myself very bored about this. Is heavy weight /progressive overload the only method to pack musclemass ? I see lot of guys doing high volume like juan diesel with awesome results or dexter jackson with nerve-failure sets lol I guess its genetic ? [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://s3.amazonaws.com/ukmuscle.ips/emoticons/default_sad.png&key=baaa1bac25797050cf3dff2a1a0a9c24b5ff94fe7aba919a423b635587c1f02d[/IMG] I notice I dont respond that much to heavy weight on legs for example so...


----------



## MrBishi

supertesty said:


> Hi @ElChapoI used win one time and it was awesome. I didnt retry since that time because I feel my joints dry and I work heavy, im too scared about injuries. Anything to avoid this ? D3 is sufficient really or there is stil la risk ?
> 
> About this guys, I work pretty heavy whole the year and I had 2 little injuries in 2months (very little tear with no aesthetic impact) I start to feel myself very bored about this. Is heavy weight /progressive overload the only method to pack musclemass ? I see lot of guys doing high volume like juan diesel with awesome results or dexter jackson with nerve-failure sets lol I guess its genetic ? [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://s3.amazonaws.com/ukmuscle.ips/emoticons/default_sad.png&key=baaa1bac25797050cf3dff2a1a0a9c24b5ff94fe7aba919a423b635587c1f02d[/IMG] I notice I dont respond that much to heavy weight on legs for example so...





ElChapo said:


> Low dose deca is a nice support compound for TRT and AAS stacks. Many run it @ 100-150 with TRT for the joint effect and a little boost for strength and body composition. My SO even feels the joint benefits @ 60 mg per week of NPP.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ghost.recon @El Chapo
> 
> I've been blast/cruising for the last couple of years with a pct and 6 week break before doing this years long off season test/NPP run, and straight into a test/tren/mast/var/winny prep run....
> 
> I'll be finished with the prep cycle in around 10 weeks, after which time I'm planning on power PCT followed by a good break off everything with the main priority of getting the mrs pregnant.
> 
> The whole time I've been running arimidex and caber, and been periodically blasting hcg every couple of months.
> 
> My question is, what would give me the most chance of getting the mrs pregnant, the sooner the better.... between running the power pct/time off vs dropping to trt level test along with HCG?
> 
> I'm 35 and would like to try recover natural test at some point if I can, although if subjected to having to trt for the rest of my life that's a decision I'm happy with. My main priority after this season is getting the mrs pregnant though, so whichever would give me the best chance of that in the shortest time frame.
> 
> Would appreciate any input from the experts.


 You can kickstart your fertility with a power PCT, then switch to a maintenance dose of 1,000 IU HCG x 3 per week and 25 mg clomiphene ED. Sperm will begin to recover/improve in 3-6 months. Probably faster with the power PCT kickstart. Keep viagra on hand, some guys have issues with recovery/erections during this time.

The above is backed by research. If you can afford it human recombinant FSH is very effective and can be added to the above stack. 75 IU SQ x 3 per week with your HCG. FSH is very strong at inducing spermatogenesis, better than HCG. Usually HCG ran from the start with TRT only doses preserves fertility very effectively.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> You can kickstart your fertility with a power PCT, then switch to a maintenance dose of 1,000 IU HCG x 3 per week and 25 mg clomiphene ED. Sperm will begin to recover/improve in 3-6 months. Probably faster with the power PCT kickstart. Keep viagra on hand, some guys have issues with recovery/erections during this time.
> 
> The above is backed by research. If you can afford it human recombinant FSH is very effective and can be added to the above stack. 75 IU SQ x 3 per week with your HCG. FSH is very strong at inducing spermatogenesis, better than HCG. Usually HCG ran from the start with TRT only doses preserves fertility very effectively.


 Thank you for the reply, it's very much appreciated. So, after kick starting with power PCT would I be best to then remain off AAS or get onto cruising with trt dose test straight afterwards?

Cant decide whether I'm better off giving full recovery a go or go with a long cruise before starting again for the next competing season?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I will redo this question to you @ElChapo. ..
> 
> I am 35 y old. Not interested in having kids so I will blast and cruise.
> 
> Since now I just kept rotating AAS every 8 weeks with 5iu HGH during wo days. Kept always test at 500 (300 E 200 P).
> 
> My main concern is staying aesthetic as f**k. Dry lean. Grow but not much I mean it will be ok to sacrifice some growth to stay aesthetic as much as I can.
> 
> 1) Which AAS/protocol will you suggest?
> 
> 2) I was thinking to just keep doing:
> 
> 8w 400 TestPP 400 TrenA 350-400 Winstrol
> 
> 8w 400 TestPP 800 EQ 400 MastE
> 
> 5iu HGH on WO days with 5iu Humalog postwo
> 
> T3 at 25mcg ed 60mcg Clen eod all year
> 
> High carbs on WO days
> 
> Low carbs on non wo days with cardio


 300 mg test max will greatly limit water retention. This is genetic though, some guys can push it higher some need it lower before moon face starts to settle in, even with AI.

Being aesthetic is 50% being lean and 50% and having a good base of muscle w/ proportions that can be optimized through training but are strongly genetic. Drugs will take you to +110% and make the latter two easiest. As a male, maximizing aesthetics will have you in the 6-12% range depending on the look you are going for. Studies show women rate most men's faces as most attractive in the 12% range on average. Some guys need to get lower to get that chiseled look.

Careful on the GH as it can give some people water retention, 3 iu will do you fine if it's quality. You don't need much for fat loss/health optimization. If you are bulking, go ahead and keep your higher dose with the slin to enhance anabolism, but once you cut and want to maintain, you won't need that much.

I can't recommend clen all year. Imagine being on the opposite of a beta blocker/BP medication for the rest of your life. The extra stress on your heart and body will shorten lifespan and age you faster. A maintenance dose of 25 mcg-50 mcg T3 is fine year round. You can add 50 mcg of T4 for extra synergy, some tissues like hair need T4 and you will have shutdown T4 on T3 only. Let the AAS/T3/diet & exercise keep you lean year round. With the drugs, you won't have to kill yourself but you should still put in the cardio, it's good for your body. I'd rather you cycle DNP for 4 weeks every couple of months if you want to stay lean. This will actually be healthier than running clen year round to stay lean, the choice is yours though.

Carb cycling is a nice way of keeping muscle pumped from the mini-refeed on WO days. Daily low carb diets will have you flat and feeling like s**t, unless the diet favors you genetically.

I like the first protocol best, but tren and winny favor me. No other drugs give you more bang for your buck in terms of aesthetics, strength, dryness, vascularity and dry lean tissue gain. You will want to run TUDCA with your winny if going +4 weeks. I would go 300/300/300 Test/Mast/Winny and get CUT. This is the KEY to looking amazing. If you are over 12% body fat, you won't look aesthetic, period. Women lose their mind over this:









He's borderline cachectic but they drip fountains for it, the keyword is LEAN.

Drop down to 7% and lean bulk on tren/test/winny, aim for .5 lbs of weight gain per week. You should gain only dry lean tissue and stay lean year round while adding mass. Slower process, but you will look good all the time.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Hi @ElChapoI used win one time and it was awesome. I didnt retry since that time because I feel my joints dry and I work heavy, im too scared about injuries. Anything to avoid this ? D3 is sufficient really or there is stil la risk ?
> 
> About this guys, I work pretty heavy whole the year and I had 2 little injuries in 2months (very little tear with no aesthetic impact) I start to feel myself very bored about this. Is heavy weight /progressive overload the only method to pack musclemass ? I see lot of guys doing high volume like juan diesel with awesome results or dexter jackson with nerve-failure sets lol I guess its genetic ? [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://s3.amazonaws.com/ukmuscle.ips/emoticons/default_sad.png&key=baaa1bac25797050cf3dff2a1a0a9c24b5ff94fe7aba919a423b635587c1f02d[/IMG] I notice I dont respond that much to heavy weight on legs for example so...


 Option #1

Mix them up for best results. You won't get bored that way and you will reap t.he benefits of volume and strength training. So cycle periods of strength/bodybuilding splits or mix them into the same days.

Option #2

You can get away with high rep stuff/machine/DB work with bodybuilding splits only, just add a bit of weight whenever you can. Progressive overload works with any routine and exercise

I can't say for certain on the D3 and Winny, it's only a loose theory of mine. Another option is adding low dose deca 150-300 mg to the cycle, but our body just respond differently and you gotta find what works for you.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> The banned substance list is not there to adhere to and tell you what not to take, it is a list of what not to get caught taking.


 They are more like guidelines :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thank you for the reply, it's very much appreciated. So, after kick starting with power PCT would I be best to then remain off AAS or get onto cruising with trt dose test straight afterwards?
> 
> Cant decide whether I'm better off giving full recovery a go or go with a long cruise before starting again for the next competing season?


 No test would enhance fertility more, i would run test but only if you were starting from scratch.

Basically, we need HCG/LH/FSH in the blood at high levels to wake up and restart production of sperm.

We accomplish this by dropping test which will bring LH/FSH up high, adding HCG, another gonadotropin with mimetic effects to LH/FSH, and adding clomiphene which will further stimulate gonadotropin production in pituitary. 3-6 months you will start seeing nice recovery, if you are lucky you will get her pregnant quick and be done with this as it is not optimal for health/wellbeing, pure for fertility.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> No test would enhance fertility more, i would run test but only if you were starting from scratch.
> 
> Basically, we need HCG/LH/FSH in the blood at high levels to wake up and restart production of sperm.
> 
> We accomplish this by dropping test which will bring LH/FSH up high, adding HCG, another gonadotropin with mimetic effects to LH/FSH, and adding clomiphene which will further stimulate gonadotropin production in pituitary. 3-6 months you will start seeing nice recovery, if you are lucky you will get her pregnant quick and be done with this as it is not optimal for health/wellbeing, pure for fertility.


 Great stuff thank you, in that case then my plan will be to run power PCT, then stay off Test and run only hgh along with hcg and clomid, and hope to get the job done and then can get back onto a cruise dose of test for a while before the next blast.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Great stuff thank you, in that case then my plan will be to run power PCT, then stay off Test and run only hgh along with hcg and clomid, and hope to get the job done and then can get back onto a cruise dose of test for a while before the next blast.


 Anytime, best of luck to you and Stay optimistic, guys i know on real tren with tiny little balls have knocked up their girlfriends.


----------



## ghost.recon

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what's your thoughts about Meldonium?
> 
> Does it find it's place in the bodybuilding/sport world?
> 
> Safety vs effectiveness?
> 
> I read about the benefits in mood enanchement, increased stamina, improved recovery, better response of the CNS to the training
> 
> it sounds too good to be true to be fair
> 
> And if is really that good, should or shouldn't be mixed with steroids?
> 
> (Nah I am not running to buy it anyway, surely not on a Blast, but I would give it a thought while on a cruise)





ElChapo said:


> I will defer this one to @ghost.recon, he has more expertise on this particular compound.


 IMO meldonium has tremendous potential as a performance enhancer in ANY sport that requires physical exertion.

Look at the type of sports athletes have been tested positive for Meldonium: Judo, Wrestling, Cycling, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics, Boxing.

Due to it mainly being used in Eastern Europe, with no FDA approval in the US, there is not enough research studying the safety of Meldonium.

What we do know is its mechanisms of action and because of this, we are able to exploit this drug for performance enhancement.

It can be used alongside AAS.

I am planning to run some experiments on myself with Meldonium along with others.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ghost.recon said:


> IMO meldonium has tremendous potential as a performance enhancer in ANY sport that requires physical exertion.
> 
> Look at the type of sports athletes have been tested positive for Meldonium: Judo, Wrestling, Cycling, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics, Boxing.
> 
> Due to it mainly being used in Eastern Europe, with no FDA approval in the US, there is not enough research studying the safety of Meldonium.
> 
> What we do know is its mechanisms of action and because of this, we are able to exploit this drug for performance enhancement.
> 
> It can be used alongside AAS.
> 
> I am planning to run some experiments on myself with Meldonium along with others.


 I read that make the body use glucose as a primary form of energy instead of bodyfat, can you elaborate on this?

I want to try to stay lean all year round and from my understanding if the body uses glucose opposite than body fat won't be good.

I may be wrong too, too much broscience on the internet....


----------



## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> Use both, you only need ralox to reverse gyno or prevent it on a cycle you know will give you gyno.
> 
> Dbol is the worst for gyno, it aromatizes into methy-estradiol instead of regular estradiol, a much more potent estrogen that is much harder to break down by the liver.


 Hi mate, I've been looking at my buying options and I can get tamoxifen far more easily and cheaply. Is this an acceptable substitute, and if so, what dosage and duration? (we were discussing the use of raloxifene on/after blast to reduce gyno)

Cheers


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> Injectable is more bioavailable and will hit you faster and harder. You will have to inject a lot though as concentration per mg tends to be low with winstrol oil based. i would not touch suspension unless you have a high tolerance for PIP. Daily/EOD frequency depending on volume.
> 
> Oral is more convenient as you bypass pinning, but liver will have to work harder metabolizing. TUDCA will have you covered. 12 weeks of winny with TUDCA is the max i would run. at 50 mg or less. 6-8 weeks for 100 mg ED.


 Ok cool still got time to decide

Thank you again


----------



## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> Hi mate, I've been looking at my buying options and I can get tamoxifen far more easily and cheaply. Is this an acceptable substitute, and if so, what dosage and duration? (we were discussing the use of raloxifene on/after blast to reduce gyno)
> 
> Cheers


 It is, 20-40 mg ED until gyno disappears. Ralox has less sides and is a bit more effect but nolva will do the trick. 2-4 weeks to start seeing anything. 8-12 weeks for peak improvement. Just put it in your supplement/vitamin stack and forget about it. Don't look at it daily, it will drive you nuts.


----------



## Tricky

Just a shout out to say thanks for such informative posts it's clear to see you both have the knowledge and willingness to pass it on without any bullshit which is refreshing.

Hope you men stick around

@ghost.recon

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Just a shout out to say thanks for such informative posts it's clear to see you both have the knowledge and willingness to pass it on without any bullshit which is refreshing.
> 
> Hope you men stick around
> 
> @ghost.recon
> 
> @ElChapo


 Your English hospitality is much appreciated. It is a pleasure to be here sharing data with you guys.


----------



## St. Michael

ElChapo said:


> It is, 20-40 mg ED until gyno disappears. Ralox has less sides and is a bit more effect but nolva will do the trick. 2-4 weeks to start seeing anything. 8-12 weeks for peak improvement. Just put it in your supplement/vitamin stack and forget about it. Don't look at it daily, it will drive you nuts.


 Yep, just read a post here citing several studies and it seems promising

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/165044-gyno-reversal-with-tamoxifen-study/?do=embed

so I think I'll go for tamoxifen (it is a deca cycle after all so I'll be dosing myself for months anyway so I don't mind taking a bit longer to crush the gyno)

Again, thanks for the info!


----------



## ghost.recon

Tricky said:


> Just a shout out to say thanks for such informative posts it's clear to see you both have the knowledge and willingness to pass it on without any bullshit which is refreshing.
> 
> Hope you men stick around
> 
> @ghost.recon
> 
> @ElChapo


 Thanks mate, I joined this board with the intention of helping people understand and learn about AAS and PED use properly. Was sick and tired of all the broscience still lingering around when we have so much new data and published studies that really changes the way we should be running these drugs.



ElChapo said:


> Your English hospitality is much appreciated. It is a pleasure to be here sharing data with you guys.


 UK is where it's at, come over and juice yourself to the gills legally. LOL


----------



## ElChapo

St. Michael said:


> Yep, just read a post here citing several studies and it seems promising
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/165044-gyno-reversal-with-tamoxifen-study/?do=embed
> 
> so I think I'll go for tamoxifen (it is a deca cycle after all so I'll be dosing myself for months anyway so I don't mind taking a bit longer to crush the gyno)
> 
> Again, thanks for the info!


 No problem, patience is key.

Letrozole for gyno is a horrible protocol that will ruin your life for weeks and give little results. It's sad how the broscience dogma spreads like this.


----------



## Wayno

ghost.recon said:


> Thanks mate, I joined this board with the intention of helping people understand and learn about AAS and PED use properly. Was sick and tired of all the broscience still lingering around when we have so much new data and published studies that really changes the way we should be running these drugs.
> 
> UK is where it's at, come over and juice yourself to the gills legally. LOL


 And help and educate you have, a lot of experience on this forum from many members which I personally respect and you guys bring the science to it , it's just awesome.


----------



## Sphinkter

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Regarding PSA readings when running AAS: is a high reading something to be concerned about?


----------



## ghost.recon

Sphinkter said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Regarding PSA readings when running AAS: is a high reading something to be concerned about?


 Do you have baseline reading prior to AAS use?


----------



## Sphinkter

ghost.recon said:


> Do you have baseline reading prior to AAS use?


 Yeh it was like <0.5 compared to 18 or so after. Doctor fobbed me off. E2 was also fairly high at the time.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> 300 mg test max will greatly limit water retention. This is genetic though, some guys can push it higher some need it lower before moon face starts to settle in, even with AI.
> 
> Being aesthetic is 50% being lean and 50% and having a good base of muscle w/ proportions that can be optimized through training but are strongly genetic. Drugs will take you to +110% and make the latter two easiest. As a male, maximizing aesthetics will have you in the 6-12% range depending on the look you are going for. Studies show women rate most men's faces as most attractive in the 12% range on average. Some guys need to get lower to get that chiseled look.
> 
> Careful on the GH as it can give some people water retention, 3 iu will do you fine if it's quality. You don't need much for fat loss/health optimization. If you are bulking, go ahead and keep your higher dose with the slin to enhance anabolism, but once you cut and want to maintain, you won't need that much.
> 
> I can't recommend clen all year. Imagine being on the opposite of a beta blocker/BP medication for the rest of your life. The extra stress on your heart and body will shorten lifespan and age you faster. A maintenance dose of 25 mcg-50 mcg T3 is fine year round. You can add 50 mcg of T4 for extra synergy, some tissues like hair need T4 and you will have shutdown T4 on T3 only. Let the AAS/T3/diet & exercise keep you lean year round. With the drugs, you won't have to kill yourself but you should still put in the cardio, it's good for your body. I'd rather you cycle DNP for 4 weeks every couple of months if you want to stay lean. This will actually be healthier than running clen year round to stay lean, the choice is yours though.
> 
> Carb cycling is a nice way of keeping muscle pumped from the mini-refeed on WO days. Daily low carb diets will have you flat and feeling like s**t, unless the diet favors you genetically.
> 
> I like the first protocol best, but tren and winny favor me. No other drugs give you more bang for your buck in terms of aesthetics, strength, dryness, vascularity and dry lean tissue gain. You will want to run TUDCA with your winny if going +4 weeks. I would go 300/300/300 Test/Mast/Winny and get CUT. This is the KEY to looking amazing. If you are over 12% body fat, you won't look aesthetic, period. Women lose their mind over this:
> 
> He's borderline cachectic but they drip fountains for it, the keyword is LEAN.
> 
> Drop down to 7% and lean bulk on tren/test/winny, aim for .5 lbs of weight gain per week. You should gain only dry lean tissue and stay lean year round while adding mass. Slower process, but you will look good all the time.


 Atm i am 182cm 97kg at 9-10% bf but coming out from a successful lean bulk/recomp started it at 106kg 18%bf.

Glad to see that my plan wasn't wrong  but unfortunately this guy in your image is too little for me..... I am more into a "muscle model" like body.

I like these guys like Akash Pardesi (from Enhanced Athlete).

Love those cannon ball shoulders (Tren+Eq look or Primo <3 )

That's why was thinking to rotate aas from test tren w and test eq mast.

But as you said have to keep Test at bay 300mg  TestPP noticed a totally different water retention on it than Enantathe.

Thanks for you answer! (Added it to my Google Keep)


----------



## ghost.recon

Sphinkter said:


> Yeh it was like <0.5 compared to 18 or so after. Doctor fobbed me off. E2 was also fairly high at the time.


 Tell me about your AAS used leading up/during the 18 PSA reading.


----------



## Sphinkter

ghost.recon said:


> Tell me about your AAS used leading up/during the 18 PSA reading.


 Original PSA reading taken as part of blood test through a work medical scheme in June 16, natural up until august 16, 500mg test thereafter. Took the TRT check blood test on medichecks in later October (got the results on the 31st) showed PSA at 18, E2 was up at 250pmol/l.

I went to my doctor, well I spoke to him on the phone and basically he was a dick about it asking why I'd even had a PSA etc (I'm only 27). Told me to drop my results in. He clocked my address had changed on the earlier bloods and got a receptionist or nurse to phone me telling me I had to change practises.

i haven't had it checked since, the last bloods I got were the sports hormone check and it wasn't included on that.


----------



## ReRaise

For my contest prep I'm carb cycling, my weekly macros average at 320p/250c/85f....

protein and fat stays pretty constant and I just distribute carbs as I feel like through the week, which last week was:

5 x low carb days at 150g carbs

2 x high carb days at 500g carbs

Is there a more optimal way of cycling carbs, should I be having medium days? Or does it not matter as long as weekly amounts add up?


----------



## ghost.recon

Sphinkter said:


> Original PSA reading taken as part of blood test through a work medical scheme in June 16, natural up until august 16, 500mg test thereafter. Took the TRT check blood test on medichecks in later October (got the results on the 31st) showed PSA at 18, E2 was up at 250pmol/l.
> 
> I went to my doctor, well I spoke to him on the phone and basically he was a dick about it asking why I'd even had a PSA etc (I'm only 27). Told me to drop my results in. He clocked my address had changed on the earlier bloods and got a receptionist or nurse to phone me telling me I had to change practises.
> 
> i haven't had it checked since, the last bloods I got were the sports hormone check and it wasn't included on that.


 First let me say, some GPs do my fu**ing head in. Finding a good GP on the NHS is getting rarer, half of them just want to mug you off, they will only react if you are in serious health danger but they are too stupid to consider biomarkers and what it MAY lead to, thats how closed minded some are they hide in their little box and thats all they know. Idiots.

Were you using an AI on 500mg test? E2 is elevated yes. Do you cycle at all or sit in the same position for prolonged periods of time at work? I know cycling can raise PSA due to the pressure the seat places on the prostate.

I would suggest getting another TRT panel done from medichecks. Does that test use venous blood or fingerprick?


----------



## Sphinkter

ghost.recon said:


> First let me say, some GPs do my fu**ing head in. Finding a good GP on the NHS is getting rarer, half of them just want to mug you off, they will only react if you are in serious health danger but they are too stupid to consider biomarkers and what it MAY lead to, thats how closed minded some are they hide in their little box and thats all they know. Idiots.
> 
> Were you using an AI on 500mg test? E2 is elevated yes. Do you cycle at all or sit in the same position for prolonged periods of time at work? I know cycling can raise PSA due to the pressure the seat places on the prostate.
> 
> I would suggest getting another TRT panel done from medichecks. Does that test use venous blood or fingerprick?


 I sit all day at work, I know there a few things that can effect it and it could have been a number of them.

i am/was using an AI aromasin at the time at 12.5mg E3D after the test I upped it to EOD.

Finger pr**k sample, you can get venous but you either need to pay more to go get it done or arrange it yourself, I don't know any nurses or doctors and don't fancy doing it myself.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Regarding PSA readings when running AAS: is a high reading something to be concerned about?


 How high are we talking? Keep e2 within range will limit prostate hypertrophy and inflammation.


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> How high are we talking? Keep e2 within range will limit prostate hypertrophy and inflammation.


 It was 18ug/l


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Atm i am 182cm 97kg at 9-10% bf but coming out from a successful lean bulk/recomp started it at 106kg 18%bf.
> 
> Glad to see that my plan wasn't wrong  but unfortunately this guy in your image is too little for me..... I am more into a "muscle model" like body.
> 
> I like these guys like Akash Pardesi (from Enhanced Athlete).
> 
> Love those cannon ball shoulders (Tren+Eq look or Primo <3 )
> 
> That's why was thinking to rotate aas from test tren w and test eq mast.
> 
> But as you said have to keep Test at bay 300mg  TestPP noticed a totally different water retention on it than Enantathe.
> 
> Thanks for you answer! (Added it to my Google Keep)


 I agree 100%, he is too small. The point of the picture was to show how important being lean is to aesthetics, that even with a shittier physique, being lean will make you look more aesthetic. It's the main factor in a pleasing physique. Size & proportion come second.

Cannon ball shoulders are a question of having well-developed anterior/lateral delts with low body fat. Tren, etc will enhance this effect by amplifying the sarcoplasm/glycogen stores in the muscle, giving it that extra pop, but they are not requirements for that look.

It's one of those "broscience" things, but i have also noticed less water on prop vs enanthate, with dose/AI taken into account. There is usually some truth to old myths and this one i have experienced myself. If you are really lean, it won't make enough of a different to matter though.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> It was 18ug/l


 ouch, what were you running? dosages, ancillaries, time on, etc?

EDIT: i see that you posted up there, reading now.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> Original PSA reading taken as part of blood test through a work medical scheme in June 16, natural up until august 16, 500mg test thereafter. Took the TRT check blood test on medichecks in later October (got the results on the 31st) showed PSA at 18, E2 was up at 250pmol/l.
> 
> I went to my doctor, well I spoke to him on the phone and basically he was a dick about it asking why I'd even had a PSA etc (I'm only 27). Told me to drop my results in. He clocked my address had changed on the earlier bloods and got a receptionist or nurse to phone me telling me I had to change practises.
> 
> i haven't had it checked since, the last bloods I got were the sports hormone check and it wasn't included on that.


 Limit your cycles and give your body plenty of rest in between with TRT doses. Keep E2 in a tight range of 55-110 pmol/L at all times.

Have you noticed any issues with urinary retention as of late or going to the restroom more often/increased feelings of urgency?


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> First let me say, some GPs do my fu**ing head in. Finding a good GP on the NHS is getting rarer, half of them just want to mug you off, they will only react if you are in serious health danger but they are too stupid to consider biomarkers and what it MAY lead to, thats how closed minded some are they hide in their little box and thats all they know. Idiots.
> 
> Were you using an AI on 500mg test? E2 is elevated yes. Do you cycle at all or sit in the same position for prolonged periods of time at work? I know cycling can raise PSA due to the pressure the seat places on the prostate.
> 
> I would suggest getting another TRT panel done from medichecks. Does that test use venous blood or fingerprick?


 Finding a good GP is quite a challenge. I urge everyone to shop around and find an open-minded, caring physician that does not judge you and has concern for your well-being and quality of life and not just numbers on your cholesterol/BP/etc. It is something that will benefit you for the rest of your life.


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> Limit your cycles and give your body plenty of rest in between with TRT doses. Keep E2 in a tight range of 55-110 pmol/L at all times.
> 
> Have you noticed any issues with urinary retention as of late or going to the restroom more often/increased feelings of urgency?


 No none at all I've not had any symptoms of BPH back when the test was taken or since.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> For my contest prep I'm carb cycling, my weekly macros average at 320p/250c/85f....
> 
> protein and fat stays pretty constant and I just distribute carbs as I feel like through the week, which last week was:
> 
> 5 x low carb days at 150g carbs
> 
> 2 x high carb days at 500g carbs
> 
> Is there a more optimal way of cycling carbs, should I be having medium days? Or does it not matter as long as weekly amounts add up?


 Minimum protein for muscle maintenance, fat for flavor, carbs for performance/muscle fullness.

A lot of your ratios are going to also be affected by how you respond mentally to diets. Some guys do better on keto style, others prefer classic high carb/low fat. I am the latter. High carbs keeps strength and performance, energy and mood up. Low carbs makes me irritable, low energy, and general feeling of malaise/s**t.

What you are doing will work fine, you can distribute that carbs more evenly though and get the same effect. Finding the right balance of carbs will keep your muscles full and pumped without spilling over to water under the skin. This will actually make you look leaner. When i get flat on lower carbs, i look like 1-2% bf higher just because the muscle seperation isn't there. Experiment and find what works best for you, it doesn't matter what method you use as long as you reach your goals.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> No none at all I've not had any symptoms of BPH back when the test was taken or since.


 I would want to get this re-tested on a TRT dosage and see where you are at. An acute spike in PSA is a sign of acute prostatic inflammation that some people can get from running high dose androgenic anabolics. Limit E2 conversion will mitigate this effect.

Another option is splitting your cycle to half test/half deca and keeping E2 tight. This will be a much less androgenic stimuli to the prostate cells and gains will be the same if not better, but it depends on your response to nandrolone.


----------



## gcortese

ElChapo said:


> Possibilities are var being contaminated with dbol, bunk or underdosed ancillaries, and hyperthyroidism increases aromatization. How much T4 were you taking?


 I was taking 125mcg ed.

Any idea how I should introduce the test back in?


----------



## Jordan08

ghost.recon said:


> With ester weight, I personally do not see much point in calculating dosages minus the ester. After all, the ester itself is important in determining pharmacokinetics of each compound.
> 
> MPB is only an issue if you have it personally, people such as Jay Cutler has a perfect hairline and is definitely not genetically predisposed to MPB. I personally am the same and can tolerate high levels of androgenics with minimal effect on hair.
> 
> I would suggest 300mg Test E per week and 2-400mg NPP per week split into bi-weekly shots. PP ester allows twice a week dosing.
> 
> I would simply avoid them instead of trying to use them and taking things such as 5ar inhibitors which have a ton of unwanted side effects which I have discussed a lot in previous AMA's. That is only if you care a lot about cosmetics, hair is not that important to me and even if I did experience MPB I would choose to blast the s**t out of androgens and save myself on paying for regular hair cuts. On cycle, my hair grows at a stupid rate even a zero fade doesn't last very long.
> 
> 23andme analyses your entire DNA genome and sequences ever gene you have and gives you a gene array data output which you can use to analyse your own genes and see what SNPs you have and how these may affect your response to medication, training, potential susceptibility to certain diseases or resistance to etc. It is basically a bespoke analysis of your own body.


 Suppose I go for it, will it be possible for me to study the result of it or I have to consult someone to do it for me?

Secondly, what are your thoughts on how to avoid cramps for someone for whom taurine doesn't do anything?


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> I would want to get this re-tested on a TRT dosage and see where you are at. An acute spike in PSA is a sign of acute prostatic inflammation that some people can get from running high dose androgenic anabolics. Limit E2 conversion will mitigate this effect.
> 
> Another option is splitting your cycle to half test/half deca and keeping E2 tight. This will be a much less androgenic stimuli to the prostate cells and gains will be the same if not better, but it depends on your response to nandrolone.


 I started using cialis after the result as well. Any other supplements or meds worth considering, short of DHT blockers?


----------



## ElChapo

gcortese said:


> I was taking 125mcg ed.
> 
> Any idea how I should introduce the test back in?


 That's a replacement dosage of T4. A healthy thyroid produces 80-120 mcg of T4 per day.

The bioavailability of oral T4 is about 80% so you are roughly getting 100 mcg ED. This is assuming you are taking it on an empty stomach, otherwise, absorption decreases by 30% on average.


----------



## Raposo

From AMA 2.0

Hello:

I just discover this fantastic topic, thanks for all you do.

I hope you understand me as English is not my native language.

First at all: some questions I found reading you

1) Why do you like cialis so much? Besides the erection factor. With health, roids, and fat lossing and bulking.

2) and the same question with masteron, don't you think primobolan with a normal dose of proviron will work even better? Realted to health and gains, as far as I know the masteron is pretty weak (if we compare with tren or bolde)

and now about my actually blast:

cutting

week 1-6

750 testo e

750 eq

400 tren e

week 7-12

750 test e

500 primobolan

300 tren a

using during the whole cycle

cabergoline 25 twice a week

amiridex 0.5 ed (testing my e2)

T3 25ed

and ephedrine+caffeina 2weeks on 2 off

resting those 2 with clen (80-120)

what do you think? Will you change something? (I only use roids, no peptides)

I am afraid of using T4, is it risky? 50 ed for example.

I read you that I can go 40 (or even less) with clembuterol ed, May I use ephedrine as the same time? I read that it can be dangerous for the hearth health.

The hair health is a must, for me. And I am worrying for the prostate.

I am B&C. I only use 250 test e e5d while I am cruising. I'd say that it's healthier for the hair than do a PTC.

thanks for all, have a lovely day [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://s3.amazonaws.com/ukmuscle.ips/emoticons/default_smile.png&key=7d883e53930effe4ab704c2ccf5df8366d7f39bda8ad204ef5c4362884e122b7[/IMG]


----------



## ElChapo

gcortese said:


> I was taking 125mcg ed.
> 
> Any idea how I should introduce the test back in?


 Treat any pre-existing gyno with ralox or nolvadex until it's gone.

When you add test back in, run AI from the start. Keep ralox/nolva on hand for any flare ups. Keep test dosages at 500 mg max and do not touch dbol. Be careful with tren.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I'm not a fan of prohormones. A lot of the times they are more toxic and have more side effects with much less benefit for the physique.
> 
> Keeping what you get out of any cycle will be determined by many factors. The most important being your hormone levels post-cycle(Cruising/TRT/PCT) and your training and diet. Another important factor is how much size you gain past your natural limit. Most people can only attain an FFMI(Fat free mass index) of 24-25 naturally, and that's with great genetics. To break the natty limit of 25, you need AAS unless you are a genetic freak. http://www.naturalphysiques.com/28/fat-free-mass-index-ffmi <----- Use this calculator to measure your FFMI. You BF% needs to be accurate for accurate results. Most guy will underestimate their BF and think they carry more lean mass than they do.
> 
> Test is not the only option, many bodybuilders run successful test-less cycles. Test is a great compound though and can support energy and well-being when e2 is kept in check, and it's cheap as hell too. This is why you will see test 90% of time. Other can't keep their dick hard and their libido up without testosterone.


 Can you recommend me any good bulking oral only cycle? Keep in mind I havent used any AAS or ph's ever. Also what can be the cause of gyno if my E2 is in the very low end and prolactin is normal?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Suppose I go for it, will it be possible for me to study the result of it or I have to consult someone to do it for me?
> 
> Secondly, what are your thoughts on how to avoid cramps for someone for whom taurine doesn't do anything?


 If you get a 23andme analysis, i can show you how to find MPB genes in your genome. Hit me up on PM if you ever do it and i'll guide you through it.

For cramps, keep potassium/sodium/magnesium/calcium intake high and drink a gallon or so of water. Creatine and certain anabolics can cause cramping in people. Tren and winny have done this to me in higher doses.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> I started using cialis after the result as well. Any other supplements or meds worth considering, short of DHT blockers?


 Cardio and anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory supplements(Inflammation is one of the mechanisms behind BPH). I recommend pycnogenol and curcumin w/ piperine. They are extremely potent and well worth the money. Most supplements are trash and a waste of money and time. Cialis has a very strong protective effect on the endothelium of the vascular system as well, so it's a great drug. Just be wary of gastric reflux, headaches, and sometimes people can get moody on it. It can affect cortisol levels and nitric oxide is also a neurotransmitter.


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> From AMA 2.0
> 
> Hello:
> 
> I just discover this fantastic topic, thanks for all you do.
> 
> I hope you understand me as English is not my native language.
> 
> First at all: some questions I found reading you
> 
> 1) Why do you like cialis so much? Besides the erection factor. With health, roids, and fat lossing and bulking.
> 
> 2) and the same question with masteron, don't you think primobolan with a normal dose of proviron will work even better? Realted to health and gains, as far as I know the masteron is pretty weak (if we compare with tren or bolde)
> 
> and now about my actually blast:
> 
> cutting
> 
> week 1-6
> 
> 750 testo e
> 
> 750 eq
> 
> 400 tren e
> 
> week 7-12
> 
> 750 test e
> 
> 500 primobolan
> 
> 300 tren a
> 
> using during the whole cycle
> 
> cabergoline 25 twice a week
> 
> amiridex 0.5 ed (testing my e2)
> 
> T3 25ed
> 
> and ephedrine+caffeina 2weeks on 2 off
> 
> resting those 2 with clen (80-120)
> 
> what do you think? Will you change something? (I only use roids, no peptides)
> 
> I am afraid of using T4, is it risky? 50 ed for example.
> 
> I read you that I can go 40 (or even less) with clembuterol ed, May I use ephedrine as the same time? I read that it can be dangerous for the hearth health.
> 
> The hair health is a must, for me. And I am worrying for the prostate.
> 
> I am B&C. I only use 250 test e e5d while I am cruising. I'd say that it's healthier for the hair than do a PTC.
> 
> thanks for all, have a lovely day [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://s3.amazonaws.com/ukmuscle.ips/emoticons/default_smile.png&key=7d883e53930effe4ab704c2ccf5df8366d7f39bda8ad204ef5c4362884e122b7[/IMG]


 Lmao, where do i start?

Tadalafil(cialis) increases nitric oxide production in the body. Nitric oxide keeps blood vessels supple, flexible and healthy. Aging and disease cause hardening and calcification of the arterial walls and endothelial dysfunction. Cialis can prevent and reverse this(in mice studies on diabetic mice). Cialis is also good at easing symptoms of BPH, a common issue with people on high doses of AAS for long periods of time, especially older users. It is cheap and will keep you penile and heart blood vessels healthy. Studies show regular use of phosphodieterase inhibitors can actually reverse vascular dysfunction and lead to permanent improvement after discontinuing the drugs. This is most likely attributed to the reversal in endothelial damage i mentioned earlier.

Primo is expensive and has something of a cult following. Winstrol does the drying, hardening and vascularity better than any DHT and it's cheap. Masteron is best for the mental aspects such as focus, controlled aggression, and as you said, it is mild but this can be a good thing. It will also give you extra bang for your buck in testosterone cycles and has mild AI effects. Basically what i am saying is, stick to the basic. Train hard, diet consistently and you will acheive your goals. People get too hung up on this magic recipe of chems for gains.

T4 is pretty crap for increasing metabolism, T4 only enhances metabolism when converted to T3, the active hormone. This is a rate limited process, your body will only make so much T3 from T4 and as you diet more and leptin levels decrease, this conversion will slow down further. You are better off with fat burners like yohimbine, EC stack, clen or DNP. If you want to add thyroid hormone, 50-75 mcg of T3 is close to double what you make naturally. If you start getting flat from T3 use, increase your daily carbs or do a carb refeed to restore glycogen stores in the muscle, don't confuse this with muscle loss like most people do.

I wouldn't mix clen and EC, it's kine of redundant anyways as they use similar pathways in the body(beta adrenergic agonism) to increase fat loss. Stick to a solid caloric deficit, run a standard dose of clen, EC, yohimbine or DNP and you will get results. Don't look for a magic mix that will get you ripped, you won't find one.

Generally, TRT doses of test will not exacerbate hairloss. A little extra, say 250-300 mg per week should still be fine. Guys that are cursed with aggressive MPB are gonna lose it anyways and should tread carefully but there is only so much you can do to delay the process. You could try 150/150 test E/Deca and see how that treats you. It will be less androgenic and give you a little extra boost. You might love it or hate it but you won't know until you experiment.


----------



## Raposo

@ElChapo wow, incredible answer, Thanks a lot. You are very kind.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can you recommend me any good bulking oral only cycle? Keep in mind I havent used any AAS or ph's ever. Also what can be the cause of gyno if my E2 is in the very low end and prolactin is normal?


 50 mg winstrol ED will treat you right with caloric surplus and progressive overload. Some people may get ED from not running testosterone as test levels and E2 will be shutdown. Others will be okay. You will only know if you try, but winstrol only will work fine in terms of gains. 350 mg of stanozolol is anabolically more potent than 350 mg of test E. It will work, people just like to flame oral only cycles because it's cool to gang up on someone apparently. I say go for it if you want but focus on DIET and TRAINING and your results will never disappoint.

Gyno is not as simple as high e2. There is a very strong genetic component and things like IGF levels, receptor sensitivity and androgen/estrogen ratio will come into play. Guys get gyno in puberty and test levels are not that high, but their gyno cells are sensitive to the increase in E2 and all the GH pumping through their system. Men also get gyno from anti-psychotics(prolactin) and even hyperthyroidism(extra aromatization/higher E2).

It's a pretty complex topic. If you have gyno now, i suggest you run raloxifene at 60 mg for 12 weeks. It should kill it off. You can do this with your cycle if you feel like it.

I cant recommend dbol because your titties will probably explode, winny will make you dry and hard and strong and build good, lean tissue if diet and training are in check. I always recommend having a solid natural base before experimenting with AAS. Results will be suboptimal to downright disappointing if you don't know what you are doing. I see it all the time when guys think a gram of tren will have them looking like lazar angelov in 4 weeks, 8 pack, dry, vascular and strong but they look like they dont even lift after a long high tren cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> @ElChapo wow, incredible answer, Thanks a lot. You are very kind.


 Anytime brother, 25 mcg is a replacement dose of T3 and not a bad idea on a cut as your body will start to reduce T3 production as you get leaner. Taking 25 mcg or more will keep serum and tissue T3 levels high on a big deficit and metabolism will keep humming a long.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 50 mg winstrol ED will treat you right with caloric surplus and progressive overload. Some people may get ED from not running testosterone as test levels and E2 will be shutdown. Others will be okay. You will only know if you try, but winstrol only will work fine in terms of gains. 350 mg of stanozolol is anabolically more potent than 350 mg of test E. It will work, people just like to flame oral only cycles because it's cool to gang up on someone apparently. I say go for it if you want but focus on DIET and TRAINING and your results will never disappoint.
> 
> Gyno is not as simple as high e2. There is a very strong genetic component and things like IGF levels, receptor sensitivity and androgen/estrogen ratio will come into play. Guys get gyno in puberty and test levels are not that high, but their gyno cells are sensitive to the increase in E2 and all the GH pumping through their system. Men also get gyno from anti-psychotics(prolactin) and even hyperthyroidism(extra aromatization/higher E2).
> 
> It's a pretty complex topic. If you have gyno now, i suggest you run raloxifene at 60 mg for 12 weeks. It should kill it off. You can do this with your cycle if you feel like it.
> 
> I cant recommend dbol because your titties will probably explode, winny will make you dry and hard and strong and build good, lean tissue if diet and training are in check. I always recommend having a solid natural base before experimenting with AAS. Results will be suboptimal to downright disappointing if you don't know what you are doing. I see it all the time when guys think a gram of tren will have them looking like lazar angelov in 4 weeks, 8 pack, dry, vascular and strong but they look like they dont even lift after a long high tren cycle.


 Okay you dont like sarms either? Also if not, would you do Winstrol or stano as first cycle? Gonna research the compounds tho - btw I really appreciate you taking your time answer questions from everyone! I learned a lot from this thread so far!


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay you dont like sarms either? Also if not, would you do Winstrol or stano as first cycle? Gonna research the compounds tho - btw I really appreciate you taking your time answer questions from everyone! I learned a lot from this thread so far!


 I'm not really into SARMs .I think peptides are pretty cool like Melanotan II, oxytocin, GH, and insulin. SARM stuff bores me. Glad you find the data useful, you're welcome.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo noticed that you love Winstrol a lot but you talked also about Equipoise....

1) Can you give us some examples of Equipoise cycles?

2) and Eq cycle without Test?

3) What are your favourite AAS?

I remember that Buselmo was speaking in one of his posts about using HGH Eq Tren Mast Primo Anavar....

P.S. would like to give a try to No Test Eq Tren W Adex cycle for my next incoming cut


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo noticed that you love Winstrol a lot but you talked also about Equipoise....
> 
> 1) Can you give us some examples of Equipoise cycles?
> 
> 2) and Eq cycle without Test?
> 
> 3) What are your favourite AAS?
> 
> I remember that Buselmo was speaking in one of his posts about using HGH Eq Tren Mast Primo Anavar....
> 
> P.S. would like to give a try to No Test Eq Tren W Adex cycle for my next incoming cut


 #1/#2- EQ can be added to test in a 1:1 ratio to limit aromatization/water retention or completely replace it (common practice in middle eastern bodybuilding). Think of it as a dryer anabolic. I recommend boldenone cypionate as it kicks in faster and still has a good half-life that can hold a good concentration per mL and still keep pinning frequency down. Treat it like test in the base of a cycle.

#3 Tren ace & winstrol. Dryness, strength, vascularity. Good for bulk and cut;versatile. Easy to find. Highly cost effective per mg.

Some guys love no test, only way to find out how it treats you is to experiment. I have ran tren ace solo and it treated me fantastic. Others would have spaghetti dick and panic attacks. Genetics affect everything.


----------



## stewedw

Excellent thread, keep it going guys, some excellent questions and superb answers. 

Most of mine have been covered other than some relating to libido.

If you lose libido on cycle, have soft errections or normal errections with poor volume when ejaculating, is this down to high e2?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Excellent thread, keep it going guys, some excellent questions and superb answers.
> 
> Most of mine have been covered other than some relating to libido.
> 
> If you lose libido on cycle, have soft errections or normal errections with poor volume when ejaculating, is this down to high e2?
> 
> Cheers


 In my experience, those are my high E2 symptoms as well along with garbage mood. I find that with low E2, erections are still strong, but libido is not there.


----------



## S123

I know I asked a similar question before but what would 5iu bring to a bulk in terms of keeping lean, adding muscle etc, compared to not using it? Would you advise people to max out on AAS before using hgh? as sometimes a gram of gear with gh can cost nearly the same amount as running 3 grams of gear? (dependant on what you're using)


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> I know I asked a similar question before but what would 5iu bring to a bulk in terms of keeping lean, adding muscle etc, compared to not using it? Would you advise people to max out on AAS before using hgh? as sometimes a gram of gear with gh can cost nearly the same amount as running 3 grams of gear? (dependant on what you're using)


 It's going to depend on your goals. If you want freak mass, GH/Slin is something you will need. A bit of GH will accelerate lean tissue gains and improve body composition, but the dosage needed for this effect is not high.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> It's going to depend on your goals. If you want freak mass, GH/Slin is something you will need. A bit of GH will accelerate lean tissue gains and improve body composition, but the dosage needed for this effect is not high.


 I'm not looking for freakish mass, at the moment I'm sitting at 12-14% bodyfat with 16 inch arms at 205 lbs (everywhere else overpowers my arms and bad structure) when my igf levels were tested they were 134 ngl (Not too sure whatever measurement of igf1 one is, it was on the bottom end of average) I'm looking to cut down to 7-8% and lean bulk, what would be the minimum hgh you would advise without having to push gear up too high when I start bulking? (Enough to provide muscle tissue growth)


----------



## stewedw

Oh, and not a performance enhancing question, but why do aas affective our digestive systems? You mention acid reflux from tren e, for example.

Me personally, I have awful flatulence when bulking, not on keto, regarding of fibre intake, digestive enzymes or not etc. Very weird..... Any ideas?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> I'm not looking for freakish mass, at the moment I'm sitting at 12-14% bodyfat with 16 inch arms at 205 lbs (everywhere else overpowers my arms and bad structure) when my igf levels were tested they were 134 ngl (Not too sure whatever measurement of igf1 one is, it was on the bottom end of average) I'm looking to cut down to 7-8% and lean bulk, what would be the minimum hgh you would advise without having to push gear up too high when I start bulking? (Enough to provide muscle tissue growth)


 3-5 iu will do fine. Your baseline IGF levels are average.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Oh, and not a performance enhancing question, but why do aas affective our digestive systems? You mention acid reflux from tren e, for example.
> 
> Me personally, I have awful flatulence when bulking, not on keto, regarding of fibre intake, digestive enzymes or not etc. Very weird..... Any ideas?


 They can affect prostaglandins, these modulate inflammation, digestion, etc. Tons of different processes in the body. Fun fact, caverject, the injectable viagra drug is a prostaglandin. This is mostly theory and opinion on my part. I am not entirely sure myself.


----------



## SlinMeister

stewedw said:


> Oh, and not a performance enhancing question, but why do aas affective our digestive systems? You mention acid reflux from tren e, for example.
> 
> Me personally, I have awful flatulence when bulking, not on keto, regarding of fibre intake, digestive enzymes or not etc. Very weird..... Any ideas?


 Try using ACV+lemon juice.

I fill a shacker with some tbsp of ACV and the juice from 1 lemon, drink it between meals...

This worked wonders on me.... When on Tren...


----------



## invisiblekid

I'm just in to week 5 of a 800mg Test400 cycle (prop, enth, undec) with 80mg var kickstart and I've got some slight swelling of my hands - nothing major, but my wedding ring is a little tighter and my knuckles are a little bit swollen. Vascularity is down a little as well.

GH is 2.5ui per day but swelling has only come on after adding test back in.

AI is adex - 1mg E3D.

Is it likely to be water retention and would increasing adex to 1mg EoD help?

Diet is 90% clean.

Thanks.


----------



## Sphinkter

This thread is fu**ing epic I've actually started going through it with a note book. So many brain gainz.


----------



## stewedw

SlinMeister said:


> Try using ACV+lemon juice.
> 
> I fill a shacker with some tbsp of ACV and the juice from 1 lemon, drink it between meals...
> 
> This worked wonders on me.... When on Tren...


 Acv?

I googled it.... So how much apple cider vinegar and lemon juice daily? I'll defo give it a go

Cheers.


----------



## invisiblekid

Sphinkter said:


> This thread is fu**ing epic I've actually started going through it with a note book. So many brain gainz.


 Agreed. It's pure gold. Well done @ElChapo and @ghost.recon


----------



## LordOfTheManor

stewedw said:


> Acv?
> 
> Cheers.


 Apple cider vinegar


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> I'm just in to week 5 of a 800mg Test400 cycle (prop, enth, undec) with 80mg var kickstart and I've got some slight swelling of my hands - nothing major, but my wedding ring is a little tighter and my knuckles are a little bit swollen. Vascularity is down a little as well.
> 
> GH is 2.5ui per day but swelling has only come on after adding test back in.
> 
> AI is adex - 1mg E3D.
> 
> Is it likely to be water retention and would increasing adex to 1mg EoD help?
> 
> Diet is 90% clean.
> 
> Thanks.


 That's a lot of test. Some people need 1 mg adex DAILY for +1 g. It will help to increase the AI but testosterone can increase water retention independent of E2. If you don't want water, lower test dose and add something else in it's place.

Clean diet will usually help since carbs that spill over and aren't going into the muscle to restore glycogen tend to cause subq water retention. There is only so much E2 control and diet can do when you are approaching 1 gram of testosterone. If you are leaner, you can get away with more water retention. Some people hold more water than others at various doses. That's why when some guy says "But that's not what happens to me!", it's a no-s**t sherlock moment. Everyone is different.


----------



## invisiblekid

ElChapo said:


> That's a lot of test. Some people need 1 mg adex DAILY for +1 g. It will help to increase the AI but testosterone can increase water retention independent of E2. If you don't want water, lower test dose and add something else in it's place.
> 
> Clean diet will usually help since carbs that spill over and aren't going into the muscle to restore glycogen tend to cause subq water retention. There is only so much E2 control and diet can do when you are approaching 1 gram of testosterone. If you are leaner, you can get away with more water retention. Some people hold more water than others at various doses. That's why when some guy says "But that's not what happens to me!", it's a no-s**t sherlock moment. Everyone is different.


 Much appreciated. Figured that would be the issue - that all makes sense. I do have some EQ on hand which I've never used before so now might be a good time to lower the test and add it in. How does 600/600 test/eq sound?


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> Much appreciated. Figured that would be the issue - that all makes sense. I do have some EQ on hand which I've never used before so now might be a good time to lower the test and add it in. How does 600/600 test/eq sound?


 Will probably drop a good amount of water and get vascular again from that combo(granted you're lean enough). 2 mg adex pw is my standard recommendation for 500 mg of test. Some people only need 1 mg or none at all. Experiment and find your dose.


----------



## stewedw

What causes the excess heat/sweating when running aas. Mainly tren? I've used dnp before and being on a cycle is comparable to 250mg a day at times.


----------



## ghost.recon

Sphinkter said:


> This thread is fu**ing epic I've actually started going through it with a note book. So many brain gainz.


 Don't forget AMA 1.0 and 2.0. Good pile of info there not to be missed


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> What causes the excess heat/sweating when running aas. Mainly tren? I've used dnp before and being on a cycle is comparable to 250mg a day at times.


 Increased metabolism usually mediated by changes and beta/adrenergic receptor activity, the same mechanism behind the hot flashes that women get with hormone fluctuations. It messes with adrenaline/noradrenaline levels in the body.

The DNP mechanism is different and is an effect of DNP making energy production at the mitochondrial level less efficient, thus wasting some energy as extra heat. This is the same mechanism behind those old school light bulbs that wasted more electricity and were hotter to the touch with less brightness. Some of that voltage was being wasted as heat. It's a good analogy to remember DNP's effects by.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ghost.recon about Meldonium

So this is part of my reading on it:

"Meldonium appears to work by inhibiting the synthesis of a substance called carnitine, which the cells in the body need to burn fat to produce energy. But when cells are not getting enough oxygen, they can switch to burning glucose instead of fat. Glucose produces more energy for a given amount of oxygen than fat.

My questions are

1. if Meldonium inhibit carnitine that the body uses for burn body fats, would the body store body fat instead of burning it while you on Meldonium cycle?

2. And if the answer is no, could be the Meldonium be taken when cutting or bulking or it won't make any difference?

3. What are the recommended dosages for performance enhancing

4. I read that Sharapova she is been taking it for 10 years, so does it need to be cycled (on/off) or can you just stay on?

5. Half life and active life?

Sorry for the load but I am very interested about this and while reading a lot about it, due to the lack of studies and regulations there is a lot of broscience around this one.

Thanks a lot in advance!


----------



## IronJohnDoe

Sphinkter said:


> This thread is fu**ing epic I've actually started going through it with a note book. So many brain gainz.


 I have to totally agree with you, I am learning tons with this thread!


----------



## ghost.recon

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ghost.recon about Meldonium
> 
> So this is part of my reading on it:
> 
> "Meldonium appears to work by inhibiting the synthesis of a substance called carnitine, which the cells in the body need to burn fat to produce energy. But when cells are not getting enough oxygen, they can switch to burning glucose instead of fat. Glucose produces more energy for a given amount of oxygen than fat.
> 
> My questions are
> 
> 1. if Meldonium inhibit carnitine that the body uses for burn body fats, would the body store body fat instead of burning it while you on Meldonium cycle?
> 
> 2. And if the answer is no, could be the Meldonium be taken when cutting or bulking or it won't make any difference?
> 
> 3. What are the recommended dosages for performance enhancing
> 
> 4. I read that Sharapova she is been taking it for 10 years, so does it need to be cycled (on/off) or can you just stay on?
> 
> 5. Half life and active life?
> 
> Sorry for the load but I am very interested about this and while reading a lot about it, due to the lack of studies and regulations there is a lot of broscience around this one.
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance!


 That is the basic concept of it yes. Good to see you doing some independent reading.

1. It would make lipolysis and reduction of body fat less efficient yes. An athlete and good friend of mine was using it during camp and found it more difficult to lose fat for his weigh in, so yes I have observed real time experience of it affecting weight loss. The body wouldn't store fat immediately as there are more factors that contribute to fat gain such as total calorie intake, activity levels, other PEDs which are under our control. Furthermore, circulating free fatty acids are also used for other physiological processes such as growth and repair. Fat and cholesterol is important for the hydrophillic and hydrophobic phospholipid bilayer that encapsulates every cell in our body. For a cell to grow and repair, its cellular organelles and structures also need repairing and fat being one of the components of that.

2. It would be excellent to use in a caloric surplus comprised of high carbohydrate intake, due to its mechanisms your body would become very efficient at utilising glycogen to generate energy. Combined with insulin, it would further maximise and exploit the potential of Meldonium. It would also be useful on a rebound after a prep, by introducing higher macros combined with the drug would allow more intense and effective training thus utilising your nutrients more effectively. From a cutting perspective, probably not.

3. Due to lack of studies and lack of use in the PED drug world, we are not 100% sure. It would make sense to start at the medical therapeutic dose used by the eastern europeans as a starting point to gauge and determine the dosage required for performance enhancement.

4. I believe it does not need to be cycled off providing you maintain a certain body composition. Look at Sharapova, she is fu**ing sexy as f**k so hot I'd slam so hard all day everyday. But anyways not to diverge  , on a serious note don't let yourself go to the point you gain excess weight, keep training and diet consistent and you will benefit from its use without coming off.

5. Not enough studies have been done to look at its pharmacokinetics under different environments and larger sample groups. It does have a propionate ester attached to it which is interesting but in horses it has an elimination half life of 422 to 647.8 hours in horses not humans, which is how long it takes to completely exit the system and perhaps be undetectable however, as with any drug there are metabolites which still may trigger a positive test if speaking from a doping perspective.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ghost.recon said:


> That is the basic concept of it yes. Good to see you doing some independent reading.
> 
> 1. It would make lipolysis and reduction of body fat less efficient yes. An athlete and good friend of mine was using it during camp and found it more difficult to lose fat for his weigh in, so yes I have observed real time experience of it affecting weight loss. The body wouldn't store fat immediately as there are more factors that contribute to fat gain such as total calorie intake, activity levels, other PEDs which are under our control. Furthermore, circulating free fatty acids are also used for other physiological processes such as growth and repair. Fat and cholesterol is important for the hydrophillic and hydrophobic phospholipid bilayer that encapsulates every cell in our body. For a cell to grow and repair, its cellular organelles and structures also need repairing and fat being one of the components of that.
> 
> 2. It would be excellent to use in a caloric surplus comprised of high carbohydrate intake, due to its mechanisms your body would become very efficient at utilising glycogen to generate energy. Combined with insulin, it would further maximise and exploit the potential of Meldonium. It would also be useful on a rebound after a prep, by introducing higher macros combined with the drug would allow more intense and effective training thus utilising your nutrients more effectively. From a cutting perspective, probably not.
> 
> 3. Due to lack of studies and lack of use in the PED drug world, we are not 100% sure. It would make sense to start at the medical therapeutic dose used by the eastern europeans as a starting point to gauge and determine the dosage required for performance enhancement.
> 
> 4. I believe it does not need to be cycled off providing you maintain a certain body composition. Look at Sharapova, she is fu**ing sexy as f**k so hot I'd slam so hard all day everyday. But anyways not to diverge  , on a serious note don't let yourself go to the point you gain excess weight, keep training and diet consistent and you will benefit from its use without coming off.
> 
> 5. Not enough studies have been done to look at its pharmacokinetics under different environments and larger sample groups. It does have a propionate ester attached to it which is interesting but in horses it has an elimination half life of 422 to 647.8 hours in horses not humans, which is how long it takes to completely exit the system and perhaps be undetectable however, as with any drug there are metabolites which still may trigger a positive test if speaking from a doping perspective.


 Thanks a million! I'm constantly impressed by the knowledge of the two of you guys!

I am at 12% of body fat at the moment, still 10 days before I end my lean bulk, I will wait to give Meldonium a go after summer

I'll probably try to get to 7-8% bf before to start it anyway so that I don't mess up with the body fat, will probably do 6 months on (autumn/winter for the bulk properties) and stay off from it during Spring/Summer, as there is not much studies in regards I will probably take 1 single dose of 250mg a day in the morning after breakfast and will see how I get on.

Thanks again!


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> If you get a 23andme analysis, i can show you how to find MPB genes in your genome. Hit me up on PM if you ever do it and i'll guide you through it.
> 
> For cramps, keep potassium/sodium/magnesium/calcium intake high and drink a gallon or so of water. Creatine and certain anabolics can cause cramping in people. Tren and winny have done this to me in higher doses.


 In 23andme analysis, will it be able to give me answer to the below questions?

1) Which food should i avoid or definitely add from overall health prospective(Hair too)?

2) Which Vitamins and Minerals are good or bad for me(Hair too)?

3) Which AAS should i avoid if i ever take this route?

4) Diseases to which i am more prone?


----------



## Tonynico

Why do steroids increase your heart rate?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> It's going to depend on your goals. If you want freak mass, GH/Slin is something you will need. A bit of GH will accelerate lean tissue gains and improve body composition, but the dosage needed for this effect is not high.


 *If you want freak mass, GH/Slin is something you will need.*

In you're opinion what doses ? Pharma GH & fast acting slin.


----------



## wilko1985

What would be a good cycle for someone very prone to acne and gyno? Primo I am a fan of, but wanted to know if there was anything else worth looking at.

PS, your advice in the previous AMA about Nizoral Shampoo for acne has been amazing! practically cleared everything up on this current cycle, so thank you for that.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo when you are not on your top notch triade: Test Tren W, which one non toxic AAS you will choose?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> In 23andme analysis, will it be able to give me answer to the below questions?
> 
> 1) Which food should i avoid or definitely add from overall health prospective(Hair too)?
> 
> 2) Which Vitamins and Minerals are good or bad for me(Hair too)?
> 
> 3) Which AAS should i avoid if i ever take this route?
> 
> 4) Diseases to which i am more prone?


 1) Yes

2) Yes, but not for hair.

3) No

4) Yes


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Why do steroids increase your heart rate?


 They increase the sensitivity of your body to catecholamine induced sympathetic response. In layman's terms, the adrenaline receptors on your heart and blood vessels become more sensitive to the effects of adrenaline. This causes harder, faster contractions which can improve circulation in a fight or flight response but can also lead to things like chronically elevated BP and irritability. This will vary depending on the hormone, individual response/genetics, and dosages.

Going off point for a second, testosterone can promote both a pro-social state (friendliness/helpfulness) and pro-assertive/aggressive state because it can increase both GABA (calming neurotransmitter) and andrenaline/noradrenaline (fight response)


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> They increase the sensitivity of your body to catecholamine induced sympathetic response. In layman's terms, the adrenaline receptors on your heart and blood vessels become more sensitive to the effects of adrenaline. This causes harder, faster contractions which can improve circulation in a fight or flight response but can also lead to things like chronically elevated BP and irritability. This will vary depending on the hormone, individual response/genetics, and dosages.
> 
> Going off point for a second, testosterone can promote both a pro-social state (friendliness/helpfulness) and pro-assertive/aggressive state because it can increase both GABA (calming neurotransmitter) and andrenaline/noradrenaline (fight response)


 Wow thanks bro


----------



## Filthee

With regards to fat burners...

I've been doing an EC stack now for about 6 weeks (been doing 2 weeks on, 1 week off) where i was dosing 25mg eph/200mg caffeine 3x daily (6:30am, 10:30am, 2:30pm) Currently I'd guess I'm around 10% BF (pic taken in the morning):

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=http://imgur.com/bZxkm9L

I'm about 3 weeks out from holidays. Would it be more beneficial to switch out the eph. for yohimbine to further drop my BF%? I do LISS fasted cardio 3x week so I'd follow your previous comment about 0.2mg/kg. If I take the yohimbine as one dose (pre fasted cardio), do I take anything else for the rest of the day?


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> *If you want freak mass, GH/Slin is something you will need.*
> 
> In you're opinion what doses ? Pharma GH & fast acting slin.


 GH: 10-20 IU once daily in the morning SQ.

Fast-acting insulin: 20 IU with meals SQ Have your food ready, it kicks in at 5-10 mins. 5-10 g carbs per iu dosed on tolerance. Always carry your favorite candy in case you start feeling hypo.

Always run at least a minimum dose of tren with GH/Insulin. Trenbolone sensitizes myonuclei to IGF-1. Trenbolone will also limit the amount of food stored in adipocytes via nutrient repartitioning/P-ratio increase.

Add metformin at 500-1,000 mg if you tend to snack a lot. It will keep your cells highly insulin sensitive and also confer a protective effect against fat gain.

DO NOT run these doses without having prior experience with insulin. You need to assess your personal tolerance to insulin, which is highly genetic. Again, most people do not need GH/insulin to achieve their physique goals, but it breaks the limit of how much lean mass you can put on and can make lean tissue gains come on faster.


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> With regards to fat burners...
> 
> I've been doing an EC stack now for about 6 weeks (been doing 2 weeks on, 1 week off) where i was dosing 25mg eph/200mg caffeine 3x daily (6:30am, 10:30am, 2:30pm) Currently I'd guess I'm around 10% BF (pic taken in the morning):
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=http://imgur.com/bZxkm9L
> 
> I'm about 3 weeks out from holidays. Would it be more beneficial to switch out the eph. for yohimbine to further drop my BF%? I do LISS fasted cardio 3x week so I'd follow your previous comment about 0.2mg/kg. If I take the yohimbine as one dose (pre fasted cardio), do I take anything else for the rest of the day?


 You are actually closer to 8%(if unflexed).

That's a great idea, yohimbine works best with fasted LISS and you will let your body re-sensitize to the beta adrenergic agonist effect of EC.

Yohimbine is perfect for <10% bf as it excels and burning stubborn fat (lower abs, back, glutes.)

I always recommend EC or clenbuterol at higher bodyfat percentages and a switch to Yohimbine or ECY stack once you reach 10% or lower.


----------



## Filthee

ElChapo said:


> You are actually closer to 8%.
> 
> That's a great idea, yohimbine works best with fasted LISS and you will let your body re-sensitize to the beta adrenergic agonist effect of EC.
> 
> Yohimbine is perfect for <10% bf as it excels and burning stubborn fat (lower abs, back, glutes.)
> 
> I always recommend EC or clenbuterol at higher bodyfat percentages and a switch to Yohimbine or ECY stack once you reach 10% or lower.


 Awesome. So do I just take the one dose in the morning (pre-fasted cardio)? Should I take anything else throughout the day (even just caffeine?)


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> Awesome. So do I just take the one dose in the morning (pre-fasted cardio)? Should I take anything else throughout the day (even just caffeine?)


 One dose in the morning, 15-30 mins before cardio depending on how quickly it kicks in for you. (You will feel it). You can drink coffee or take caffeine through out the day. Technically, yohimbine is mostly gone from the body in a few hours, however, its metabolites stick around for longer. You will feel its effects for longer than it's half-life would have you think.

Care should be taken when mixing yohimbine with cialis/viagra/levitra as this can lead to priapism.


----------



## Raposo

ECY stack could be dangerous for the hearth? I always thought that it was better use yohimbine and rotate with ephedrine

What do you think of albutamol for fat loss? I am using 20 mg ED, resting of ephedrine and clembuterol (it's more or less the same as clembutero, but just for changing)


----------



## Filthee

ElChapo said:


> One dose in the morning, 15-30 mins before cardio depending on how quickly it kicks in for you. (You will feel it). You can drink coffee or take caffeine through out the day. Technically, yohimbine is mostly gone from the body in a few hours, however, its metabolites stick around for longer. You will feel its effects for longer than it's half-life would have you think.
> 
> Care should be taken when mixing yohimbine with cialis/viagra/levitra as this can lead to priapism.


 Haha - It's a good thing I only take cialis in the evenings...


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> Haha - It's a good thing I only take cialis in the evenings...


 Cialis last 48-72 hours.


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> ECY stack could be dangerous for the hearth? I always thought that it was better use yohimbine and rotate with ephedrine
> 
> What do you think of albutamol for fat loss? I am using 20 mg ED, resting of ephedrine and clembuterol (it's more or less the same as clembutero, but just for changing)


 ECY for people experienced with ephedra and yohimbine and have high tolerance for stims (based on genetics; COMT & MAO enzyme and experience)

It's similar, just focus on caloric deficit/cardio and forget you are taking the drugs. They will do their thing.


----------



## Bull Terrier

My question got lost in the posting frenzy here!

What do you think of the injectable ATP product made by Synthetek?

One guy who I know says it enables him to get more reps out on higher rep sets, and thus force muscle growth.

Your thoughts on this product?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> GH: 10-20 IU once daily in the morning SQ.
> 
> Fast-acting insulin: 20 IU with meals SQ Have your food ready, it kicks in at 5-10 mins. 5-10 g carbs per iu dosed on tolerance. Always carry your favorite candy in case you start feeling hypo.
> 
> Always run at least a minimum dose of tren with GH/Insulin. Trenbolone sensitizes myonuclei to IGF-1. Trenbolone will also limit the amount of food stored in adipocytes via nutrient repartitioning/P-ratio increase.
> 
> Add metformin at 500-1,000 mg if you tend to snack a lot. It will keep your cells highly insulin sensitive and also confer a protective effect against fat gain.
> 
> DO NOT run these doses without having prior experience with insulin. You need to assess your personal tolerance to insulin, which is highly genetic. Again, most people do not need GH/insulin to achieve their physique goals, but it breaks the limit of how much lean mass you can put on and can make lean tissue gains come on faster.


 WOW !! gh would be very expensive.

I assume the 20iu's of slin would be split through out the day's meals & not 20iu with every meal, because that would be insane !!

Metformin on none slin days right ?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Cialis last 48-72 hours.


 Cialis 20mg pd & I get terrible head aches


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> My question got lost in the posting frenzy here!
> 
> What do you think of the injectable ATP product made by Synthetek?
> 
> One guy who I know says it enables him to get more reps out on higher rep sets, and thus force muscle growth.
> 
> Your thoughts on this product?


 Not sure if that's legit or not, but i like to stick to the basics. No need for fancy additions.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> WOW !! gh would be very expensive.
> 
> I assume the 20iu's of slin would be split through out the day's meals & not 20iu with every meal, because that would be insane !!
> 
> Metformin on none slin days right ?


 Professional bodybuilding is expensive.

Metformin daily.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> Cialis 20mg pd & I get terrible head aches


 That's a ridiculously high dosage. 20 mg is supposed to be a EOD/E3D dosage. It's half life is long.

Think of cialis as cyp and viagra as prop/base. (Variation in half-life due to individual polymorphisms in CYP liver enzymes that metabolize phosphodiesterase inhibitors)


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Professional bodybuilding is expensive.
> 
> Metformin daily.


 damn right,

what about the slin ?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> That's a ridiculously high dosage. 20 mg is supposed to be a EOD/E3D dosage. It's half life is long.
> 
> Think of cialis as cyp and viagra as prop/base. (Variation in half-life due to individual polymorphisms in CYP liver enzymes that metabolize phosphodiesterase inhibitors)


 my bad !!


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> damn right,
> 
> what about the slin ?


 Split, the metformin/GH/Tren synergy will give you a lot stronger of a response, so it's more potent that it seems on paper.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> my bad !!


 2.5-5 mg is the daily dosage approved for BPH and ED.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Split, the metformin/GH/Tren synergy will give you a lot stronger of a response, so it's more potent that it seems on paper.


 cheers bud


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

@ghost.recon

Thanks for this thread, very interesting to read and keep on top of! Few questions of my own if you don't mind!

1. When running Tren or 19nors our cholesterol takes a dive quite badly. How dangerous to our health is it having HDL low and LDL high for say 6 to 8 weeks during a blast with said compounds?

2. I'm not an oral AAS user since around 2 years back when I experienced ALT at around 450 and AST around 250 after 3 weeks tbol at 70mg Ed not to mention cholesterol. GAMMA and bilirubin was within range. I was also running Tudca along with the orals. After around 2 to 3 weeks the LFTs dropped to normal range after ceasing the TBOL. That said I would maybe sometime in the future like to try anivar or winni at lowish dose along with test and maybe Tren. Was the elevation of my LFTs on TBOL typical of someone using orals? Maybe I was using a too high dose also that what should be optimal and thus straining the liver more? Would be interesting to hear your input on this and how much stress a short blast of say 4 week orals will be on potential long term liver damage?

3. Only tried Tren for 4 weeks during a cut at a dose of around 300mg EW apart from bad cholesterol I did not get any Tren sides which I guess indicate I deal with it well. One rather annoying side was cystic acne. I get acne on test e but it's very manageable with benzoyl peroxide. With Tren it was very hard. What is the reason Tren causes such bad acne for me vs test e only?

4. I would like to try T3 on my next cut however a little worried about losing muscle on this thyroid drug. Reading your previous posts you say that it's mostly a illusion of actually losing muscle as it will deplete your glycogen stores making you feel small and as if you lost muscle. But if I keep test at 500mg am I likely to not lose any muscle on 50 to 75mcg T3 Ed? FYI I will get regular bloods when using T3 for the first time to see where I am at with said dose including a Base line. Also not sure if this is a stupid question but typically if 25 is around maintenance then what will 50 in terms of daily calorie expenditure be equivalent to? 250 to 500 extra calories burnt each day?


----------



## Dead lee

You mention to use GH sub q, do you think it's better than IM or the same?

Do you think GH has injection site fat loss properties ?


----------



## Tonynico

How to control heart rate on cycle


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> @ghost.recon
> 
> Thanks for this thread, very interesting to read and keep on top of! Few questions of my own if you don't mind!
> 
> 1. When running Tren or 19nors our cholesterol takes a dive quite badly. How dangerous to our health is it having HDL low and LDL high for say 6 to 8 weeks during a blast with said compounds?
> 
> 2. I'm not an oral AAS user since around 2 years back when I experienced ALT at around 450 and AST around 250 after 3 weeks tbol at 70mg Ed not to mention cholesterol. GAMMA and bilirubin was within range. I was also running Tudca along with the orals. After around 2 to 3 weeks the LFTs dropped to normal range after ceasing the TBOL. That said I would maybe sometime in the future like to try anivar or winni at lowish dose along with test and maybe Tren. Was the elevation of my LFTs on TBOL typical of someone using orals? Maybe I was using a too high dose also that what should be optimal and thus straining the liver more? Would be interesting to hear your input on this and how much stress a short blast of say 4 week orals will be on potential long term liver damage?
> 
> 3. Only tried Tren for 4 weeks during a cut at a dose of around 300mg EW apart from bad cholesterol I did not get any Tren sides which I guess indicate I deal with it well. One rather annoying side was cystic acne. I get acne on test e but it's very manageable with benzoyl peroxide. With Tren it was very hard. What is the reason Tren causes such bad acne for me vs test e only?
> 
> 4. I would like to try T3 on my next cut however a little worried about losing muscle on this thyroid drug. Reading your previous posts you say that it's mostly a illusion of actually losing muscle as it will deplete your glycogen stores making you feel small and as if you lost muscle. But if I keep test at 500mg am I likely to not lose any muscle on 50 to 75mcg T3 Ed? FYI I will get regular bloods when using T3 for the first time to see where I am at with said dose including a Base line. Also not sure if this is a stupid question but typically if 25 is around maintenance then what will 50 in terms of daily calorie expenditure be equivalent to? 250 to 500 extra calories burnt each day?


 1. Not an issue, chronic dyslipidemia is what will predispose to atherosclerosis and heart disease. The same goes with high BP. Only chronic hypertension will cause damage to the cardiovascular system and renal system. Just make sure you take breaks. If you are going to run cycles that keep your BP over 160/90, you need to take a beta-blocker to bring that down to at least 130/80. Eventually, chronically high BP is going to break your dick, heart, and kidneys.

2. Dose may have been to high for you, hopefully the TUDCA was legit. 50-100 mg winstrol or dbol is an optimal dosage. The liver is extremely resilient and excels at repairing itself. You can cut out a section of it and it will regrow. It is CHRONIC abuse that will lead to permanent liver dysfunction. Stanozolol and oxandrolone are used year round in medicine for patients who have AIDS, heriditary angioedema and failure to thrive albeit in lower doses.

3. Tren is extremely androgenic and also has estrogenic qualities to it. Testosterone is no where near as potent.

4. With high dose AAS, resistance training and adequate protein intake, you will not lose muscle on T3. You will appear flatter if your carb intake isn't high enough. This WILL make you look smaller and fatter. It can be reverse in one day of high carb feeding. The amount of carbs will depend on the T3 dose and your TDEE. 50 mcg won't give you such a huge boost, that is only reserved for the fat burning drugs. Think of it more as an optimizer of metabolism, it will keep it high during caloric restriction when it would start to slow down and will activate genes that encourage fat loss by sensitizing your fat cells further to EC/Clen/Yohimbine. There is a strong synergy here and one of the reason hypothyroid people have issues with fat loss is because their fat cells are not responsive to adrenaline, which mobilizes fat to be burned off.


----------



## ElChapo

Dead lee said:


> You mention to use GH sub q, do you think it's better than IM or the same?
> 
> Do you think GH has injection site fat loss properties ?


 Both cause the same increase in IGF-1, SQ tends to be more pleasant. It's down to choice. GH and peptides can even be mixed with oils.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> How to control heart rate on cycle


 Cardio, beta-blocker. If you're at <95 don't worry about it as long as your cycle isn't +6 months. If you are in it for the long-haul, get it under control with exercise. If that doesn't work, use beta-blocker.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo when you are not on your top notch triade: Test Tren W, which one non toxic AAS you will choose?


 Not understanding the question, can you reiterate?


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Cardio, beta-blocker. If you're at <95 don't worry about it as long as your cycle isn't +6 months. If you are in it for the long-haul, get it under control with exercise. If that doesn't work, use beta-blocker.


 Ok thank you mate think it's mainly anxiety tbf


----------



## Bull Terrier

You mentioned that 1g of TUDCA will have you covered on cycles with harsh orals.

How harsh is harsh? Otherwise what sort of dosage do you recommend of TUDCA? Any particular good brands (I mention this because Ghost Recon once hinted that not all brands are dosed right)?


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Ok thank you mate think it's mainly anxiety tbf


 Beta-blockers will help ease anxiety. They are used my orchestra musicians and speech givers prior to their performance for this reason.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> You mentioned that 1g of TUDCA will have you covered on cycles with harsh orals.
> 
> How harsh is harsh? Otherwise what sort of dosage do you recommend of TUDCA? Any particular good brands (I mention this because Ghost Recon once hinted that not all brands are dosed right)?


 250-1 g daily scaling based on harshness of cycle. I will leave that to your discretion. This is going to vary based on dosages and compounds. Var and Halo for instance, two very different drugs in terms of hepatotoxicity.


----------



## Alibab2001

I am currently running 75mg test P, 200mg EQ & 100mg Mast P EOD, 50mg oral winstrol ED. Running a calorie deficit, LISS cardio 6x week @ 30 mins and 3 heavy gym session pw

Anything you would add to the cycle if the aim is to get as lean as possible over the next 6 weeks. Just finished a 10 week bulk of 300mg test and 750mg EQ per week.

45 years old, 88kg, c15% bf.

thanks in advance


----------



## Bull Terrier

What are your thoughts on carb and fat blockers for when consuming an out-of-schedule (i.e. cheat/junk/pig-out) meal?

I'm talking specifically about chitosan and white kidney bean extract.


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> I am currently running 75mg test P, 200mg EQ & 100mg Mast P EOD, 50mg oral winstrol ED. Running a calorie deficit, LISS cardio 6x week @ 30 mins and 3 heavy gym session pw
> 
> Anything you would add to the cycle if the aim is to get as lean as possible over the next 6 weeks. Just finished a 10 week bulk of 300mg test and 750mg EQ per week.
> 
> 45 years old, 88kg, c15% bf.
> 
> thanks in advance


 Add a fat burner to get more bang for your buck from LISS/caloric deficit. EC/Clen is good, once you get to 10% you can switch over to yohimbine to torch stubborn fat. Fasted LISS will further enhance stubborn fat loss by increase catecholamine release synergistically with yohimbine.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> What are your thoughts on carb and fat blockers for when consuming an out-of-schedule (i.e. cheat/junk/pig-out) meal?
> 
> I'm talking specifically about chitosan and white kidney bean extract.


 Too much micro managing, just eat your meal. Cheat meals/surpluses are good once in a while to boost leptin and metabolism. You won't get any fat with one day of surplus, especially on anabolics and with training. It is chronic surplus that will lead to weight gain/fat gain. Just enjoy your food and don't overthink this.


----------



## stewedw

From a friend, I've given my reply but promised to post:

Tren doesn't agree with me, and one of the biggest dudes in my gym says I should try 250mg test e, 600-800mg mast e, each week with 50-100mg oral winny daily...... On a bulk?

Wouldn't this be a waste of money as mast is a weak androgen and winny is for more for and cutting?


----------



## Raposo

What do you think about orlistat?

In obesity and bodybuilding


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> What would be a good cycle for someone very prone to acne and gyno? Primo I am a fan of, but wanted to know if there was anything else worth looking at.
> 
> PS, your advice in the previous AMA about Nizoral Shampoo for acne has been amazing! practically cleared everything up on this current cycle, so thank you for that.


 Avoid dbol and possibly tren, always carry ralox or nolvadex for flare ups.

If possible, keep testosterone at 300 mg or below. 500 mg max w/ 2 mg adex per week for most will keep E2 in range.

Glad the nizoral worked out for you, it's a great and underrated compound with many useful functions. It will kill ringworm/athletes foot/jock itch etc. It is originally meant to be an anti-fungal, but kills dandruff as well as being an anti-androgen.

Take a daily zinc dose of 50 mg picolinate and try deca. Be wary of gyno on it as well, but if it works for you, it is less androgenic than test.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> From a friend, I've given my reply but promised to post:
> 
> Tren doesn't agree with me, and one of the biggest dudes in my gym says I should try 250mg test e, 600-800mg mast e, each week with 50-100mg oral winny daily...... On a bulk?
> 
> Wouldn't this be a waste of money as mast is a weak androgen and winny is for more for and cutting?


 That could work, mast gives respectable strength at +600 mg if you train for it. Free testosterone will also increase from masteron. I would bump test to 600 mg to get the most out of the cycle. Winstrol is a good tissue builder and under rated for bodybuilding/powerlifting.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Beta-blockers will help ease anxiety. They are used my orchestra musicians and speech givers prior to their performance for this reason.


 I've used it before giving a lecture/presentation. Spoke with so much confidence plus the tren I was using at the time amplified my confidence and assertiveness in the way I spoke.


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> What do you think about orlistat?
> 
> In obesity and bodybuilding


 I am not a fan of the mechanism of action. It basically ruins your digestion of fats so you don't absorb them. Pretty shitty of getting around not wanting to diet and exercise as much as you should. Just cut using a standard fat burn and cardio and play the wait game. You will hit your goals eventually.


----------



## zariph

How important is it to run HCG during cycle? Can I get away without using it or is it just as important as the rest of the pct?

If I were to do either a test or primo or winny bulking cycle


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> How important is it to run HCG during cycle? Can I get away without using it or is it just as important as the rest of the pct?
> 
> If I were to do either a test or primo or winny bulking cycle


 answered this in a previous post but only important if you care about testicle size or fertility. Some ppl will still impregnate women without hcg and some people dont experience significant shrinkage. Certain compounds are worse for size and fertility like tren, trest and deca.

If you are going to PCT i do recommend it as it will help perserve fertility and endogenous testosterone production.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> 4. With high dose AAS, resistance training and adequate protein intake, you will not lose muscle on T3. You will appear flatter if your carb intake isn't high enough. This WILL make you look smaller and fatter. It can be reverse in one day of high carb feeding. The amount of carbs will depend on the T3 dose and your TDEE. 50 mcg won't give you such a huge boost, that is only reserved for the fat burning drugs. Think of it more as an optimizer of metabolism, it will keep it high during caloric restriction when it would start to slow down and will activate genes that encourage fat loss by sensitizing your fat cells further to EC/Clen/Yohimbine. There is a strong synergy here and one of the reason hypothyroid people have issues with fat loss is because their fat cells are not responsive to adrenaline, which mobilizes fat to be burned off.


 Thanks for this. What is the reason our metabolism slows down the longer we cut?

When running T3 should we be aiming to keep our T3 blood in the upper norm range for the duration of our cut rather than surpass it like one would with Test?

Im not sure i want to use Clen to be honest as i understand it taxes the heart and can cause palpitations which i certainly wish to avoid. Is EC a little more forgiving in this aspect?

Yohimbine appears to be good but must be taken fasted before cardio soon after taking it - is this true?

Does supra-physiological Test levels raise ones TDEE vs being natural?

thanks in advance.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> answered this in a previous post but only important if you care about testicle size or fertility. Some ppl will still impregnate women without hcg and some people dont experience significant shrinkage. Certain compounds are worse for size and fertility like tren, trest and deca.
> 
> If you are going to PCT i do recommend it as it will help perserve fertility and endogenous testosterone production.


 I blast and cruise and use HCG throughout.

If i decide i wish to try for a baby with my partner in the future, rather than PCT and coming off (which i appreciate is the best option) - would running HMG help with fertility WHILE ON AAS along side HCG.

I guess my FSH will be very low if not dead on cycle and i understand HMG mimics (or even is) FSH...

That said i know many people manage to knock up their partner without HMG and like you said even HCG so it may not be necessary but none the less would HMG in theory increase the changes of success?


----------



## John Boy 1985

Is there any need for hcg when cruising, I'm 38 I've had my kids. I think it gives me some gyno, I'm gyno prone. Would it effect sexual performance?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for the amazing thread.


----------



## Tonynico

best supps and vits to take when blast and crusing


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks for this. What is the reason our metabolism slows down the longer we cut?
> 
> When running T3 should we be aiming to keep our T3 blood in the upper norm range for the duration of our cut rather than surpass it like one would with Test?
> 
> Im not sure i want to use Clen to be honest as i understand it taxes the heart and can cause palpitations which i certainly wish to avoid. Is EC a little more forgiving in this aspect?
> 
> Yohimbine appears to be good but must be taken fasted before cardio soon after taking it - is this true?
> 
> Does supra-physiological Test levels raise ones TDEE vs being natural?
> 
> thanks in advance.


 Leptin is the most important hormone that regulates metabolism and appetite. Your fat cells produce leptin. As you get leaner, you have less circulating leptin. This is why it's harder to get and stay lean as you diet because with lower leptin levels you are going to be hungrier and your metabolism is going to be slowed down.

T3; minimum 25 mcg to maintain metabolism on a deficit. 50 mcg to optimize fat loss further. Any higher will lead to flatness but can help fat loss. I recommend 25-75 mcg and let training, diet and the other fat burners do the job.

All stimulant fat burners are going to tax the heart and vascular system. This is not a problem as long as you aren't running this s**t year round. You should be able to maintain low body fat without them. When you exercise and lift weights, your heart can be taxed to extremes. Heart rate over 180 and high BP with heavy lifting. These are ACUTE stressors which can actually be beneficial in the long term. It is CHRONIC heart stress that will lead to damage and disease. Running stims for reasonable periods will not lead to long term heart damage, especially if you stay in shape and keep your heart strong and healthy.

Yohimbine; No, fasting is required. Cardio is not. Cardio will enhance fat loss though.

I wouldn't expect testosterone or any other androgen to increase TDEE directly, possible only through increased energy and activity. Fat loss will be easier than with low test and you can expect a better muscle:fat gain ratio when in a surplus.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> best supps and vits to take when blast and crusing


 Cialis to keep arteries healthy, beta-blocker to control BP if high.

Vitamin D3; enough to get levels to 60-80 ng/mL. This will enhance protein synthesis and strength.

Zinc is good for limiting acne, 50 mg zinc picolinate ED. Zinc deficiency will lead to decrease in AR receptor number and increased ER receptor in the body.

TUDCA or UDCA when running orals or liver toxic AAS. NAC is optional.

Cialis/Viagra on hand in case new compound or change in dosage leads to difficulties with erections until you get it worked out.

Raloxifene/Nolvadex on hand for gyno flare ups. Caught early, you can eliminate a lump in 2 weeks.

Nizoral shampoo, topical for acne, dandruff and male pattern baldness prevention.

Those are off the top of my head, i can probably think of more later.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Cialis to keep arteries healthy, beta-blocker to control BP if high.
> 
> Vitamin D3; enough to get levels to 60-80 ng/mL. This will enhance protein synthesis and strength.
> 
> Zinc is good for limiting acne, 50 mg zinc picolinate ED. Zinc deficiency will lead to decrease in AR receptor number and increased ER receptor in the body.
> 
> TUDCA or UDCA when running orals or liver toxic AAS. NAC is optional.
> 
> Cialis/Viagra on hand in case new compound or change in dosage leads to difficulties with erections until you get it worked out.
> 
> Raloxifene/Nolvadex on hand for gyno flare ups. Caught early, you can eliminate a lump in 2 weeks.
> 
> Nizoral shampoo, topical for acne, dandruff and male pattern baldness prevention.
> 
> Those are off the top of my head, i can probably think of more later.


 Thanks very much agin mate!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> I blast and cruise and use HCG throughout.
> 
> If i decide i wish to try for a baby with my partner in the future, rather than PCT and coming off (which i appreciate is the best option) - would running HMG help with fertility WHILE ON AAS along side HCG.
> 
> I guess my FSH will be very low if not dead on cycle and i understand HMG mimics (or even is) FSH...
> 
> That said i know many people manage to knock up their partner without HMG and like you said even HCG so it may not be necessary but none the less would HMG in theory increase the changes of success?


 Hell yeah, FSH is necessary for optimizing the signal for sperm production.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Is there any need for hcg when cruising, I'm 38 I've had my kids. I think it gives me some gyno, I'm gyno prone. Would it effect sexual performance?
> 
> Thanks in advance, and thanks for the amazing thread.


 You're not the first to notice gyno/water retention/e2 symptoms on HCG. It tends to increase E2 levels and may have an effect on these parameters independent of E2 increase.

Some claim HCG enhances libido, there are LH receptors all over the body. I don't really buy it to be honest and it's overrated for "energy/well-being/etc". A man in your position probably doesn't need it unless you are experience testicular shrinkage that is causing significant psychological distress. You will save money, pins, and the risk of gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Thanks very much agin mate!


 Glad to help brother


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Glad to help brother


 Would pharma cialis be ok 10mg eod?


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Would pharma cialis be ok 10mg eod?


 Yep, half-life would support that and it is the standard daily dosage. If you get headaches or gastric reflux, you can half the dose to 2.5 mg ED or 5 mg EOD. Younger guys with healthy arteries usually don't need as much as a diabetic old man that the usual 20 mg dose is meant for.


----------



## Tonynico

:thumb


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Not understanding the question, can you reiterate?


 Yes sorry, you said that Test Tren W are you favourite AAS.

What's another of your favourite cycles... but mate without any toxic aas like W Dbol Anadrol etc?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Yes sorry, you said that Test Tren W are you favourite AAS.
> 
> What's another of your favourite cycles... but mate without any toxic aas like W Dbol Anadrol etc?


 Test/mast 500 mg-1 g each+ AI. Great for strength and tissue building. Diet/training will dictate results, they all work. This is one if fairly mild in terms of toxicity but may exacerbate MPB/acne/BPH in susceptible individuals. Mast will enhance the strength gains and libido of the test, keep you dryer and safe from gyno with AI. You could switch mast for DHB. I have not used it yet, but it should have a similar effect with better vascularity and lean gains, on paper and from what friends of mine have experienced. I am a fan of DHTs and tren.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> You're not the first to notice gyno/water retention/e2 symptoms on HCG. It tends to increase E2 levels and may have an effect on these parameters independent of E2 increase.
> 
> Some claim HCG enhances libido, there are LH receptors all over the body. I don't really buy it to be honest and it's overrated for "energy/well-being/etc". A man in your position probably doesn't need it unless you are experience testicular shrinkage that is causing significant psychological distress. You will save money, pins, and the risk of gyno.


 Thank you brother


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Avoid dbol and possibly tren, always carry ralox or nolvadex for flare ups.
> 
> If possible, keep testosterone at 300 mg or below. 500 mg max w/ 2 mg adex per week for most will keep E2 in range.
> 
> Glad the nizoral worked out for you, it's a great and underrated compound with many useful functions. It will kill ringworm/athletes foot/jock itch etc. It is originally meant to be an anti-fungal, but kills dandruff as well as being an anti-androgen.
> 
> Take a daily zinc dose of 50 mg picolinate and try deca. Be wary of gyno on it as well, but if it works for you, it is less androgenic than test.


 Thanks elchapo. I'll have a read up on it.


----------



## Tricky

What's your go to supps for a 3 week dnp 250mg per day cycle?

How many grams of carbs do you recommend

thanks

@ElChapo

@ghost.recon


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> What's your go to supps for a 3 week dnp 250mg per day cycle?
> 
> How many grams of carbs do you recommend
> 
> thanks
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> @ghost.recon


 T3(25-50 mcg)+EC(20/200 mg) is good to keep T3 levels elevated and will help with the fatigue some people will suffer from on DNP(higher doses usually). EC to combat fatigue and appetite.

There is a powerful synergy for fat loss here. Once you hit 10%, switch to yohimbine+T3. The last bit of fat will be rich in alpha-adrenergic 2 receptors. These stop fat loss and are the reason these sites are hard to burn off. Yohimbine blocks the A2 receptors, accelerating fat loss at these sites.

DNP is good at sparing muscle, but i have to recommend some AAS to further enhance lipolysis and strength/muscle retention. You should still be lifting on DNP which will further enhance metabolism and protect muscle. TRT test+150-200 mg tren ace will do the job. Alternatively: 300 mg test with AI. Double the doses if you are holding a lot of lean mass.

Staying hydrated and make sure to supplement zinc, mag, calcium, potassium if you are sweating excessively. Alternatively, eat potatoes/bananas/dairy which will cover all the electrolytes i mentioned.

Nothing fancy, some people recommend anti-oxidants, this is optional. Plenty run it without and are fine. You aren't on this stuff year round, i would hope.


----------



## 31205

@ElChapo

Training wise, is it better to train as heavy as possible or train lighter if you can actually feel the muscle that's being worked?

Eg I could do reps with 100kg on a flat bench but can't feel a thing in my chest but if I do it with something like 70kg I can feel it.

Same with pretty much any exercises and any muscle groups.

Also, your avi looks like the logo from a T-shirt my mate makes!


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Training wise, is it better to train as heavy as possible or train lighter if you can actually feel the muscle that's being worked?
> 
> Eg I could do reps with 100kg on a flat bench but can't feel a thing in my chest but if I do it with something like 70kg I can feel it.
> 
> Same with pretty much any exercises and any muscle groups.
> 
> Also, your avi looks like the logo from a T-shirt my mate makes!


 Both for maximum results. You can add strength/barbell movements into your bodybuilding style splits, or you can periodize every few months focusing on one at a time. The golden era bodybuilders and many of the most successful bodybuilders in the modern era respect the basic powerlifting movements to build thickness and density as well as changing up the stimulus to the muscle. Think Arnold, Franco, Ronnie coleman, etc.

Even popular competitors who aren't on the deep end of the mass scale incorporate deadlifts and other barbell movements into their routines, ie Ulysses Jr and that young, up and comer kid Chris Bumstead who competes in classic physique. Do both to reap the maximum benefits of training. It's also fun to mix it up and give yourself a break from the same old.

Barbell incline or flat bench press for strength, don't focus as much on the contraction or feeling, just increasing the weight each workout.

You can reserve the pump/contraction/bodybuilding style high volume training for dumbbell pressing movements and cables/machines. You can do both in the same routine or do one style for 3 months at a time and cycle it out.

Lmao, i found it on google. Maybe it's the same one. Awesome design, give him props if it's the one.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Both for maximum results. You can add strength/barbell movements into your bodybuilding style splits, or you can periodize every few months focusing on one at a time. The golden era bodybuilders and many of the most successful bodybuilders in the modern era respect the basic powerlifting movements to build thickness and density as well as changing up the stimulus to the muscle. Think Arnold, Franco, Ronnie coleman, etc.
> 
> Even popular competitors who aren't on the deep end of the mass scale incorporate deadlifts and other barbell movements into their routines, ie Ulysses Jr and that young up and coming kid Chris Bumstead. Do both to reap the maximum benefits of training. It's also fun to mix it up and give yourself a break from the same old.
> 
> Barbell incline or flat bench press for strength, don't focus as much on the contraction or feeling, just increasing the weight each workout. You can reserve the pump/contraction/bodybuilding style high volume training for dumbbell pressing movements and cables/machines. You can do both.
> 
> Lmao, i found it on google. Maybe it's the same one. Awesome design, give him props if it's the one.


 OK mate, thanks a lot for this. The mind muscle connection thing goes out the window if I train as heavy as I can. All that's on my mind is not letting the bar fall on my neck! At the moment I'm dieting but my last "bulk" I think I added zero muscle. Just 2 stone of fat. 2014 was last time I dieted and ended up 11st 9lbs. I'm 12st 2 and probably 7lbs away from the same condition I was back then! 3 years going round in a huge circle of unachievement!

I'm 99.9% certain it is cos I told him where to put the text and also to do it black and orange.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo , @ghost.recon

Is taking a lot of fish oil while on cycle beneficial anyhow? There is really a LOT of broscience around this subject.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> up and comer kid Chris Bumstead


 Best physique out imo. out of curiosity, and to grasp, what goes at that level, roughly how much peds would you estimate a classical physique competitor like him is on? likes of Calum Von Moger also. these guys have very respectable physiques, both respectable mass, with great definition.

What would your PCT protocol for guys, that cycle on/off, preferably PCT for test only cycles, and harsher cycles, like Test/oral or Test/Tren

What vit D3 dose, do you recommend daily, I take 5,000 ius, is that sufficient?

Thank you :thumbup1:


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo , @ghost.recon
> 
> Is taking a lot of fish oil while on cycle beneficial anyhow? There is really a LOT of broscience around this subject.


 The issue is that most fish oil is rancid/oxidize. I respond badly to fish oil supplements, they give me bad brain fog.

You are MUCH better off eating 1-2 servings of salmon per week(about 3.5 oz). You will get a huge amount of pure, un-oxidized EPA and DHA. Stick to wild-caught, it's not much more expensive for what you get out of it. it's leaner with less calories. Farm raised is fattier because they force feed them soy meal and garbage to increase the yield for sale. More of the fat ends up being saturated and omega-6.

Studies show all you need is 1-2 servings of fatty fish per week to reap all the benefits of omega 3 intake. It's a good thing for bodybuilders/athletes who put their body through lots of wear and tear. Omega 3 will dampen inflammation, can help with joint pain and will easy the inflammation and stress to the vascular system. There are also the benefits for cognitive function to consider.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Best physique out imo. out of curiosity, and to grasp, what goes at that level, roughly how much peds would you estimate a classical physique competitor like him is on? likes of Calum Von Moger also. these guys have very respectable physiques, both respectable mass, with great definition.
> 
> What would your PCT protocol for guys, that cycle on/off, preferably PCT for test only cycles, and harsher cycles, like Test/oral or Test/Tren
> 
> What vit D3 dose, do you recommend daily, I take 5,000 ius, is that sufficient?
> 
> Thank you :thumbup1:


 These guys are a mix of incredible genetics, and starting AAS at a young age when receptors are still very responsive to GH/IGF/testosterone/AAS(Like arnold who started blasting dbol at 15). I would estimate someone like Bumstead is taking some pretty heavy cycles in terms of his relative strength level and quick development (this kid is like 21 years old with a lifetime of gains and a pro card to boot), but it's all speculation.

Standard PCT by Mike Scally albeit i would take the HCG out and run it through the cycle. For harsher cycles, i would run HCG minimum 1,500-3,000 IU total per week if fertility and recovery are important to you with HMG(Recombinant FSH+LH) @ 75-150 IU x 2-3 per week.(FSH is essential to fully activating spermatogenesis, and is why HCG alone does not work as well as natural LH/FSH)

The degree of testicular shrinkage has been linked in studies to the degree of shutdown in regards to spermatogenesis and endogenous testosterone production so keep an eye on this gauge how badly your cycle might be affecting fertility and recovery.

If you live in a place that does not see much bright sunlight year round, say NYC or London. 5,000 IU with a fatty meal daily will have you at optimal levels. In the summer, you can drop this completely if you are getting sunlight regularly and switch back in the winter. The standard minimum for Vitamin D3 is 30 ng/mL, this is only to prevent rickets and osteoperosis. The many other functions of Vitamin D require higher serum levels. A human that spends a lot of time in the sun will usually see levels in the 60's ng/mL. This data comes from studies on lifeguards who get regular exposure to sun, similar to the way our ancestors would have gotten it during the evolution of our species. Vitamin D has been linked to cognition/wellbeing, cancer prevention, muscle and bone strength and the list goes on.


----------



## 31205

@ElChapo

Does tren cause hair loss?

Only on tren test t3 and clen and my hair seems to be leaving my head.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Does tren cause hair loss?
> 
> Only on tren test t3 and clen and my hair seems to be leaving my head.


 It's hard to say because people run testosterone with trenbolone and trenbolone amplifies many of the side effects of testosterone like acne, BPH, etc.

Personally, i see no hair loss from it. You will usually see a roughly 50/50 opinion on the matter. You would never know unless you ran tren solo. It does not convert to DHT but it is able to bind to AR receptors very effectively. From here it's just speculation.

Note that hairloss you see right away from all over your head is NOT male pattern baldness. Male pattern baldness starts at the temples and crown and happens gradually over time. The hair you see when brushing your hand through your hair is just normal, non-permanent hairloss. This can happen when hormone levels change abruptly and introducing new compounds. This applies to thyroid hormones as well.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> It's hard to say because people run testosterone with trenbolone and trenbolone amplifies many of the side effects of testosterone like acne, BPH, etc.
> 
> Personally, i see no hair loss from it. You will usually see a roughly 50/50 opinion on the matter. You would never know unless you ran tren solo. It does not convert to DHT but it is able to bind to AR receptors very effectively. From here it's just speculation.
> 
> Note that hairloss you see right away from all over your head is NOT male pattern baldness. Male pattern baldness starts at the temples and crown and happens gradually over time. The hair you see when brushing your hand through your hair is just normal, non-permanent hairloss. This can happen when hormone levels change abruptly and introducing new compounds. This applies to thyroid hormones as well.


 Ahhh makes sense. Started t3 on Friday and it's been the past few days I've noticed it. Thanks. I look like a right mong with a shaved head!


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Ahhh makes sense. Started t3 on Friday and it's been the past few days I've noticed it. Thanks. I look like a right mong with a shaved head!


 Yep, just keep an eye on your temples and how high on your forehead your hairline is. It will be gradual and slow if it happens.

The crown thinning is genetic as well, so some guys with MPB won't get it.

Nizoral has been proven to thicken hair and is as effective as rogaine.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Yep, just keep an eye on your temples and how high on your forehead your hairline is. It will be gradual and slow if it happens.
> 
> The crown thinning is genetic as well, so some guys with MPB won't get it.
> 
> Nizoral has been proven to thicken hair and is as effective as rogaine.


 Where do I get it? Did you say the 2% stuff is rubbish?


----------



## Jordan08

sen said:


> Where do I get it? Did you say the 2% stuff is rubbish?


 1% is trash. 2% is effective.

There are studies showing promising results with Minoxidil 5%, Keto 2% and Zinc 50Mg ED keeping the MPB at bay.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Cialis to keep arteries healthy, beta-blocker to control BP if high.
> 
> Vitamin D3; enough to get levels to 60-80 ng/mL. This will enhance protein synthesis and strength.
> 
> Zinc is good for limiting acne, 50 mg zinc picolinate ED. Zinc deficiency will lead to decrease in AR receptor number and increased ER receptor in the body.
> 
> TUDCA or UDCA when running orals or liver toxic AAS. NAC is optional.
> 
> Cialis/Viagra on hand in case new compound or change in dosage leads to difficulties with erections until you get it worked out.
> 
> Raloxifene/Nolvadex on hand for gyno flare ups. Caught early, you can eliminate a lump in 2 weeks.
> 
> Nizoral shampoo, topical for acne, dandruff and male pattern baldness prevention.
> 
> Those are off the top of my head, i can probably think of more later.


 Any form other than picolinate can be used for Zinc? . Currently, i am taking Elemental Zinc @45Mg. I believe 144Mg of Elemental Zinc equals 50Mg of Picolinate.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo have you ever tried something like:

500-1g Test 200 TrenA 500-1g Mast

Tren will be there just for the look, igf1, nutrient partitioning.


----------



## Sprocks

Hi wondering if one of u can help had blood test last week and I had high white blood cell count due to infection I think so I've to get another blood test at end of month but was planning to start new cycle on Friday will this show up on blood test ? Thanks in advance ?


----------



## bornagod

sen said:


> OK mate, thanks a lot for this. The mind muscle connection thing goes out the window if I train as heavy as I can. All that's on my mind is not letting the bar fall on my neck! At the moment I'm dieting but my last "bulk" I think I added zero muscle. Just 2 stone of fat. 2014 was last time I dieted and ended up 11st 9lbs. I'm 12st 2 and probably 7lbs away from the same condition I was back then! 3 years going round in a huge circle of unachievement!
> 
> I'm 99.9% certain it is cos I told him where to put the text and also to do it black and orange.


 Ye I seen them on his website lol. Look well tidy. Just order some triumph test too :thumbup1:


----------



## richardrahl

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

It's been said many times throughout this thread, but just wanted to add my thanks too. I've been a member on here 10 years and these A.M.A. threads have been the most informative I've ever come across. Everybody really appreciates the info that you guys put across so well.

I will, in fact, be contacting the Queen this afternoon and recommending you both for knighthoods.

Arise, Sirs.


----------



## BULK

@ElChapo @ghost.recon do you or have you ever cruised on anything other than just test ? Low dose mast or similar. Cheers


----------



## SlinMeister

BULK said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon do you or have you ever cruised on anything other than just test ? Low dose mast or similar. Cheers


 A friend of mine 56y old cruises on 250 TestE and 250 Deca, 2iu HGH ed.

It's 500mg gear but he said to me that Deca is there for joints support.

Waiting answers from the 2 gurus


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo @ghost.recon There is hormones or stuff that promote local growth, but do you think there are methods or something that any studies proove for the moment ?

I mean, on the paper mgf or peg-mgf promote local growth, but on based experiences and reviews, it do nothing except pump and heeling.

2-Do you think fascia stretching is a myth based on high volume injection that some guys try (high volume of primo, prop or seo) ?

3-Whats your opinion about stretching pwo for increasing hypertrophy process ?

4-Do you think for some how run 10ui hgh ED, slin is a must, not especially for mass but to avoid diabete ? Like palumbo advise about gh + 2ui lantus.

5-What the average lenght cycle for moderate to high dose of tren without impacting too much the health ? (good break after and supps to have markes back)

6-Do you think the protocol of milos sarcev is a must for adding mass ? (2wo training a day, 20ui slin pre and post) or there is some other way for those who have a job and can't traing twice ? Is there a real advantage to train twice a day ?

7-On the previous page you said " Fast-acting insulin: 20 IU with meals SQ " do you mean humalog/novorapid slin ? So it's 200gr carb minimum for each meal ?

I noticed I need a LOT less carbs when I use humulin-r than when I use novorapid where I need 15gr per iu + complex to avoid hypo.

THanks a lot !


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Where do I get it? Did you say the 2% stuff is rubbish?


 Yeah, 1% didn't even work for dandruff on me, so imagine it's effect potency in preventing MPB. I tried an OTC product from amazon. I couldn't stand the smell either.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Any form other than picolinate can be used for Zinc? . Currently, i am taking Elemental Zinc @45Mg. I believe 144Mg of Elemental Zinc equals 50Mg of Picolinate.


 What is the zinc salt you are using? Elemental zinc is the pure zinc, but it's always attached to a salt, almost like an ester with AAS.

Yours might be gluconate, oxide, chelate, citrate, monomethionine etc. Check the bottle. Different mineral salts have different potency and bioavailability. Picolinate is the strongest.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Leptin is the most important hormone that regulates metabolism and appetite. Your fat cells produce leptin. As you get leaner, you have less circulating leptin. This is why it's harder to get and stay lean as you diet because with lower leptin levels you are going to be hungrier and your metabolism is going to be slowed down.
> 
> T3; minimum 25 mcg to maintain metabolism on a deficit. 50 mcg to optimize fat loss further. Any higher will lead to flatness but can help fat loss. I recommend 25-75 mcg and let training, diet and the other fat burners do the job.
> 
> Yohimbine; No, fasting is required. Cardio is not. Cardio will enhance fat loss though.


 This is interesting - I trust this is why when switching from a bulk to a cut your weight rapidly drops (still taking water and glycogen depletion into account) and your metabolism is still spinning fast from the ~4000 calorie bulk to around half that so rapidly.

T3 is sometimes used on a bulk - does this help increase the muscle to fat gain ratio? For arguments sake let's say I am eating a 500 calorie surplus each day atm and I'm gaining around 1 lbs of weight per week. Will running T3 enable me to gain the same if not more amount of muscle in that 1lbs per week and reduce the amount of fat that would have otherwise been stored from this surplus? Or will I need to increase my calorie surplus to take into consideration the T3 to continue gaining muscle weight?

Regarding Yohimbine, to confirm, you are saying it must be used fasted (such as upon awaking in the morning) and should not eat for several hours their after to take advantage of its fat burning effects however to enhance it's performance it's advised to use with fasted cardiovascular where possible?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo have you ever tried something like:
> 
> 500-1g Test 200 TrenA 500-1g Mast
> 
> Tren will be there just for the look, igf1, nutrient partitioning.


 That much tren will make a big difference and sides will be limited. It looks good to me. For extra strength/lean tissueDHT dryness/vascularity switch out 300-500 mg of mast for winstrol at 350 mg per week. Looks good.


----------



## capo

sen said:


> Where do I get it? Did you say the 2% stuff is rubbish?


 Boots do there own version 2% over the counter


----------



## ElChapo

Sprocks said:


> Hi wondering if one of u can help had blood test last week and I had high white blood cell count due to infection I think so I've to get another blood test at end of month but was planning to start new cycle on Friday will this show up on blood test ? Thanks in advance ?


 Depends if the infection is resolved or not. It could still be there or it could be gone. Should not affect cycle regardless.


----------



## ElChapo

richardrahl said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> It's been said many times throughout this thread, but just wanted to add my thanks too. I've been a member on here 10 years and these A.M.A. threads have been the most informative I've ever come across. Everybody really appreciates the info that you guys put across so well.
> 
> I will, in fact, be contacting the Queen this afternoon and recommending you both for knighthoods.
> 
> Arise, Sirs.


 You guys have been great. Love all your questions, a lot of them are excellent.


----------



## capo

What's your take on using more than one oral at a time ,e.g. Winnie and var / dbol and oxys for synergie as some people quote is there any truth in this or are you better off running one at the normal dosage.

@ElChapo


----------



## MarkyMark

richardrahl said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> It's been said many times throughout this thread, but just wanted to add my thanks too. I've been a member on here 10 years and these A.M.A. threads have been the most informative I've ever come across. Everybody really appreciates the info that you guys put across so well.
> 
> I will, in fact, be contacting the Queen this afternoon and recommending you both for knighthoods.
> 
> Arise, Sirs.


 I Would like to second this, however not close to the 10 year mark yet

Also @ElChapo

Apears to never sleep!


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon do you or have you ever cruised on anything other than just test ? Low dose mast or similar. Cheers


 150/150 test/mast, 100/100 test/tren, 300 mg test E with AI, 200 mg tren ace only, 150/150 test p/winstrol. BP always stays 100-120/60-80 and heart rates in the 60's. HDL takes a hit on tren and winstrol even with low doses. A lot of these are more experiments than cruises,

Tren actually lowers LDL and triglycerides as well for me which has been shown in animal studies, a nice little bonus. Something to run cautiously on a cruise however with time limited. Always keep your cardio up regardless of cruise or blast.

Your cruise compounds and doses will depend on your goals as well, guys holding a lot more mass will want a little extra and guys who need sports performance/recovery as well, the point is the give your body a break from the high BP, dyslipidemia, liver toxicity etc. You can get away with abusing your body quite a bit as you can see with the pros who are still in the game, but caution should always be taken because you only get one heart, liver and two kidneys. Proceed with caution and be sensible and you will be alright.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> A friend of mine 56y old cruises on 250 TestE and 250 Deca, 2iu HGH ed.
> 
> It's 500mg gear but he said to me that Deca is there for joints support.
> 
> Waiting answers from the 2 gurus


 How is his BP and cholesterol profile? His heart rate? Some people can get away with some crazy s**t and this is strongly based on genetics and how healthy they keep themselves in terms of exercise, body fat and diet. If all his vitals and blood work are within normal or reasonable limits, he will probably not be as worse off as you would think, but for most people 500 mg year round will lead to heart disease eventually, especially if BP/HR/cholesterol/etc is in a bad place for a long time.

He should take beta-blocker to keep BP and HR within normal limits if it's higher than 130/90, and do regular cardiovascular exercise to mitigate the damage to his vascular system and keep his heart strong and healthy. Doing that, he will still be more healthy than 80% of the +55 year old population. The real killer is being fat and sedentary.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon There is hormones or stuff that promote local growth, but do you think there are methods or something that any studies proove for the moment ?
> 
> I mean, on the paper mgf or peg-mgf promote local growth, but on based experiences and reviews, it do nothing except pump and heeling.
> 
> 2-Do you think fascia stretching is a myth based on high volume injection that some guys try (high volume of primo, prop or seo) ?
> 
> 3-Whats your opinion about stretching pwo for increasing hypertrophy process ?
> 
> 4-Do you think for some how run 10ui hgh ED, slin is a must, not especially for mass but to avoid diabete ? Like palumbo advise about gh + 2ui lantus.
> 
> 5-What the average lenght cycle for moderate to high dose of tren without impacting too much the health ? (good break after and supps to have markes back)
> 
> 6-Do you think the protocol of milos sarcev is a must for adding mass ? (2wo training a day, 20ui slin pre and post) or there is some other way for those who have a job and can't traing twice ? Is there a real advantage to train twice a day ?
> 
> 7-On the previous page you said " Fast-acting insulin: 20 IU with meals SQ " do you mean humalog/novorapid slin ? So it's 200gr carb minimum for each meal ?
> 
> I noticed I need a LOT less carbs when I use humulin-r than when I use novorapid where I need 15gr per iu + complex to avoid hypo.
> 
> THanks a lot !


 No clue on those molecules, i just stick to basic principles of bodybuilding and get growth that way.

Personally, i have seen local long-term growth from high volume injections in muscles. Something that sticks around for months after, i have not seen it go away either. Wether this is from scar tissue, fascia stretching or localize growth from hormone is not something i can answer at the moment.

Stretching before training has been linked to higher rates of injury, the only stretching i do is through the range of motion of the actual exercise, ie. Sitting ass-to-grass before warming for squats. Stick to the ROM of the movement and you will be good to go.

HGH and insulin are not only synergetic but cover each others drawbacks. 1. High serum growth hormone leads to insulin resistance, this means less gains even though IGF-1 is high, muscles will not be able to utilize nutrients as efficiently. 2. High insulin can lead to a lot of fat gain, HGH limits this by encouraging a partitioning effect to lean tissue. This is one of the reasons why a lot young people are able to eat so much and stay trim, and older people just seems to pack on fat very easily. This is why i would recommend insulin for anything over 3 iu of GH.

Length of cycle will depend on how resilient your body is to tren in terms of sides, honestly, i am not against longer cycles with any compounds long as vitals are kept within normal limits. Cholesterol will always go to s**t on androgens, but you want to keep BP and heart rate at sensible levels. The recommendation for 12 week cycles comes from the fact that body composition changes peak at 12 weeks and that's when gains really slow down. It's down to personal choice, but i recommend 12 week cycles as a minimum, including short esters. 6 months is pushing it, but people will do what they must to achieve their goals and if you have the momentum, it's hard to stop. There are studies showing deaths and heart attacks from tren abuse, these guys were on high test and high tren levels for long periods of time and you know they weren't watching their health markers and most likely had some genetic factor involved as well.

Training twice a day is overrated unless you are a competing professional who needs every last bit of advantage. You can see growth hitting muscle groups as little as once per week, twice per week is optimal in terms of time and effects. What will dictate your results is your diet(caloric surplus or deficit) training(increasing intensity/progressive overload) genetics(how you respond to drugs, how much and how fast you gain muscle, insertions, etc) and drugs(insulin, GH, AAS, etc)

No, around 20 IU daily, this is with the metformin protocol which allows you to use less insulin to get the same effect. Without metformin you can bump this up. Patients can get away with less insulin when taking metformin, same with bodybuilders.

The faster acting insulins are much more potent and less forgiving with regards to hypoglycemia.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> I Would like to second this, however not close to the 10 year mark yet
> 
> Also @ElChapo
> 
> Apears to never sleep!


 American time zones haha


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> It's hard to say because people run testosterone with trenbolone and trenbolone amplifies many of the side effects of testosterone like acne, BPH, etc.
> 
> Personally, i see no hair loss from it. You will usually see a roughly 50/50 opinion on the matter. You would never know unless you ran tren solo. It does not convert to DHT but it is able to bind to AR receptors very effectively. From here it's just speculation.
> 
> Note that hairloss you see right away from all over your head is NOT male pattern baldness. Male pattern baldness starts at the temples and crown and happens gradually over time. The hair you see when brushing your hand through your hair is just normal, non-permanent hairloss. This can happen when hormone levels change abruptly and introducing new compounds. This applies to thyroid hormones as well.


 You should really do a guide covering this topic, if you'd be so kind to, you're a wealth of knowledge, especially given the amount of hair loss threads. maybe even other guides and then perhaps sticky it on the forum.

How do you know, if you're prone to MPB? background - both sides of my family, have all aged with full thick heads of hair, my dads 60 odd, with a complete full head of hair, in tact hairline, which seems odd for a Caucasian male to of suffered no recession or hair loss by then.

I'm probably norwood 1.5, could say 2 at a big push, put it this way, hairline looks perfectly straight, but likely I've got my mature hairline now. approaching mid 20s, with some slight triangular recession at corners of hairline. always had very full thick head of hair, just now slight recession. you mention temples of hairline, do you mean to say the corners of the hairline? I have them pointy temples, were as some people don't have that. hairline connects straight down in one line lol.

Do you literally have to be Norwood 1, not to be prone to MPB or is it a case of, the slight recession and MPB gene has set in. I've always been able to grow a very strong incredibly thick beard, and if I'm not mistaken, men who can are more likely to suffer hair loss throughout lifetime?



ElChapo said:


> Yep, just keep an eye on your temples and how high on your forehead your hairline is. It will be gradual and slow if it happens.
> 
> The crown thinning is genetic as well, so some guys with MPB won't get it.
> 
> Nizoral has been proven to thicken hair and is as effective as rogaine.


 I'm considering of implementing Nizoral, given you speak well of it. what protocol would you recommend on how to use it efficiently. could Nizoral + Zinc be good additions for someone, wanting to take care of hair. thanks


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> What's your take on using more than one oral at a time ,e.g. Winnie and var / dbol and oxys for synergie as some people quote is there any truth in this or are you better off running one at the normal dosage.


 Yeah, you can do this, people say increased toxicity etc. Complete bullshit. There is synergistic toxicity, the total dosage is what will affect the load on the liver. Some orals are more toxic on a mg basis like mtren and halotestin, but combining them isn't an issue as long as you take this into account.


----------



## supertesty

Thanks you A LOT @ElChapo Really !

Oh yeah, I would aks you about metformin. I read Metformins ignificantly increases (AMP-activated protein kinase, which is an enzyme involved in energy metabolism), thus significantly regulating the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), which regulates cell growth but also the synthesis of Proteins. I read it decreases igf1 so.

So do you think GDA like berberine or metformin bennefits overbalance the negative effects from it (like decreasing of igf1) ?

I use R-ALA for this reason because it doesnt decrease igf1 but it doesnt work the same.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> You should really do a guide covering this topic, if you'd be so kind to, you're a wealth of knowledge, especially given the amount of hair loss threads. maybe even other guides and then perhaps sticky it on the forum.
> 
> How do you know, if you're prone to MPB? background - both sides of my family, have all aged with full thick heads of hair, my dads 60 odd, with a complete full head of hair, in tact hairline, which seems odd for a Caucasian male to of suffered no recession or hair loss by then.
> 
> I'm probably norwood 1.5, could say 2 at a big push, put it this way, hairline looks perfectly straight, but likely I've got my mature hairline now. approaching mid 20s, with some slight triangular recession at corners of hairline. always had very full thick head of hair, just now slight recession. you mention temples of hairline, do you mean to say the corners of the hairline? I have them pointy temples, were as some people don't have that. hairline connects straight down in one line lol.
> 
> Do you literally have to be Norwood 1, not to be prone to MPB or is it a case of, the slight recession and MPB gene has set in. I've always been able to grow a very strong incredibly thick beard, and if I'm not mistaken, men who can are more likely to suffer hair loss throughout lifetime?
> 
> I'm considering of implementing Nizoral, given you speak well of it. what protocol would you recommend on how to use it efficiently. could Nizoral + Zinc be good additions for someone, wanting to take care of hair. thanks


 Sometimes hairline will mature and stay there. It's normal with aging. Having males in the +50 range in both sides of your parents families with no hair loss is a very good sign. You could possibly still get unlucky as they could still be carriers of MPB genes(there are many protective and causative ones). The best you can do is run nizoral regularly as it is very mild but effective. It's a good choice as a prophylactic measure and will also eliminate dandruff in even the most stubborn scalps. Keep zinc intake high as low zinc/high copper has been linked to androgenetic alopecia.

You won't know until hairloss is significant enough to tell, some people just have mature/higher hairlines with no MPB. Usually balding men can grow beards, because MPB is linked to the androgen receptor and DHT of course. Men with kleinfelters who have no DHT or men with androgen insensitivity syndrome never suffer from hair loss, but it's A LOT more complex than just DHT and androgens. It's still pretty much a mystery and genetics play the strongest role.

2% nizoral shampoo, leave in hair for 5 minutes in the shower after scrubbing into crown/hairline vigorously then rinse, daily. Even twice a week will do the job but i prefer to err on the side of caution and use it as my regular shampoo. You can apply it before you shower and then rinse at the end. Oral zinc @ 30-50 mg daily, picolinate is the best. Monomethionine and chelates are very good and gluconate is not bad either. Do not take on empty stomach as it will cause bad nausea in most people. Be wary of copper depletion, you can avoid this by eating foods rich in copper like potatos, beans, nuts or get a supplement with a little copper in it. High doses of calcium will inhibit absorption.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Thanks you A LOT @ElChapo Really !
> 
> Oh yeah, I would aks you about metformin. I read Metformins ignificantly increases (AMP-activated protein kinase, which is an enzyme involved in energy metabolism), thus significantly regulating the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), which regulates cell growth but also the synthesis of Proteins. I read it decreases igf1 so.
> 
> So do you think GDA like berberine or metformin bennefits overbalance the negative effects from it (like decreasing of igf1) ?
> 
> I use R-ALA for this reason because it doesnt decrease igf1 but it doesnt work the same.


 In an environment saturated with powerful AAS+GH this effect will be minimal. The increase in insulin sensitivity will more than overcome this.

ALA is a pretty nice compound, one of the legit supplements.


----------



## supertesty

ElChapo said:


> In an environment saturated with powerful AAS+GH this effect will be minimal. The increase in insulin sensitivity will more than overcome this.
> 
> ALA is a pretty nice compound, one of the legit supplements.


 Do you vouch more for metformin, ALA or berberine for increasing slin sensitivity mate ?

Admirate your help man


----------



## MarkyMark

MarkyMark said:


> This is interesting - I trust this is why when switching from a bulk to a cut your weight rapidly drops (still taking water and glycogen depletion into account) and your metabolism is still spinning fast from the ~4000 calorie bulk to around half that so rapidly.
> 
> T3 is sometimes used on a bulk - does this help increase the muscle to fat gain ratio? For arguments sake let's say I am eating a 500 calorie surplus each day atm and I'm gaining around 1 lbs of weight per week. Will running T3 enable me to gain the same if not more amount of muscle in that 1lbs per week and reduce the amount of fat that would have otherwise been stored from this surplus? Or will I need to increase my calorie surplus to take into consideration the T3 to continue gaining muscle weight?
> 
> Regarding Yohimbine, to confirm, you are saying it must be used fasted (such as upon awaking in the morning) and should not eat for several hours their after to take advantage of its fat burning effects however to enhance it's performance it's advised to use with fasted cardiovascular where possible?


 Sorry in all the excitement you may have missed my reply questions above


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> 2% nizoral shampoo, leave in hair for 5 minutes in the shower after scrubbing into crown/hairline vigorously then rinse, daily. Even twice a week will do the job but i prefer to err on the side of caution and use it as my regular shampoo.


 Would Nizoral still offer much, if you was on some good doses of aas?

Thought on HT'S? and is it true that transplanted hair is not sensitive towards DHT?

just taking precautions, as this is a side, I really would not want to experience. I can pull of shaved head and even bald, if I want, but obv having long hair is more aesthetically pleasing.

Can't thank you enough man.


----------



## ElChapo

ALA is trash for insulin sensitivity, it is a potent anti-oxidant. There is not a lot of research showing any effect on insulin sensitivity.

Berberine is as effective as metformin. Use either one. I would recommend metformin because it will be USP/pharmaceutical grade.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Sorry in all the excitement you may have missed my reply questions above


 Yes, optimal thyroid activity in the body will enhance protein synthesis and lean tissue gain. This has been demonstrated in various animal studies and you research in humans. My favorite study is one done in chickens where optimal addition of T4 increased growth rate from food, and too much T4 decreased it.

T3 does not significantly increase BMR in the 50 mcg range. For bulking i would recommend 120 mcg T4/25 mcg T3 give or take to optimize metabolism. There are certain pathyways that only T4 is able to activate and taking T3 only shuts down T4 production.

In regards to yohimbine, yes, exactly.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Would Nizoral still offer much, if you was on some good doses of aas?
> 
> Thought on HT'S? and is it true that transplanted hair is not sensitive towards DHT?
> 
> just taking precautions, as this is a side, I really would not want to experience. I can pull of shaved head and even bald, if I want, but obv having long hair is more aesthetically pleasing.
> 
> Can't thank you enough man.


 Yeah, nizoral will offer a protective effect while on AAS. Some notice it can stop hairloss while on winstrol/mast/tren for them. This is anecdotal data however.

The medical consensus is that transplanted hair will not be affect by DHT, a lot of surgeons recommend continuing finasteride due to the fact that if the surround hair is still thinning it will detract from the aesthetic qualities of the transplant. Other studies show that those who used finasteride had better transplanted hair growth and thickness. I never recommend finasteride however as DHT is essential to optimal health and well-being. It is in essence what makes you a man. Studies have shown that lack of DHT can actually kill cells in the penis. This was an in vitro study so take it was a grain of salt, scary as hell still.


----------



## ghost.recon

BULK said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon do you or have you ever cruised on anything other than just test ? Low dose mast or similar. Cheers


 I've cruised on injectable mtren and low dose test e.


----------



## Tonynico

Mk677 10mg a day worth it for hunger sleep and skin and the rise in gh or is it bs?


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Mk677 10mg a day worth it for hunger sleep and skin and the rise in gh or is it bs?


 I could see it being useful with AAS, it enhances IGF secretion. The ghrelin effect on appetite is useful for those who have issues with eating enough calories to grow when bulking or when tren/orals negatively affect their appetite.


----------



## BULK

Please explain the benefits of using proviron, cut only or bulk ? Length of use and dose? Does it only help to preserve muscle and does it really improve the potency of other aas in use ? Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> Please explain the benefits of using proviron, cut only or bulk ? Length of use and dose? Does it only help to preserve muscle and does it really improve the potency of other aas in use ? Cheers


 Proviron is mostly for mood/libido. It has virtually no useful effect on body composition and is very weak anabolically. Some people say it keeps them dryer like a mild AI. It is possible, but i would rather run winstrol or mast. It might affect free test, not too sure. Winstrol do everything better.


----------



## BULK

ElChapo said:


> Proviron is mostly for mood/libido. It has virtually no useful effect on body composition and is very weak anabolically. Some people say it keeps them dryer like a mild AI. It is possible, but i would rather run winstrol or mast. It might affect free test, not too sure. Winstrol do everything better.


 50mg ed sound about right? And what level of toxicity are they? Cheers again


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> 50mg ed sound about right? And what level of toxicity are they? Cheers again


 Very mild drug, 25-50 mg is a clinically effective dose. Nice little compound to add to TRT. Give it a shot and see how you like it. Nothing to lose.


----------



## BULK

ElChapo said:


> Very mild drug, 25-50 mg is a clinically effective dose. Nice little compound to add to TRT. Give it a shot and see how you like it. Nothing to lose.


 Cheers, will try out this week as starting my cruise. Just got loads cheap in Thailand


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> Cheers, will try out this week as starting my cruise. Just got loads cheap in Thailand


 Good stuff, you should see a nice effect at 50 mg. It's a cool hormone and fairly easy to find pharma grade. Let me know how it goes, i'd like to hear your anecdotes on it.


----------



## hardnfast

ElChapo said:


> Proviron is mostly for mood/libido. It has virtually no useful effect on body composition and is very weak anabolically. Some people say it keeps them dryer like a mild AI. It is possible, but i would rather run winstrol or mast. It might affect free test, not too sure. Winstrol do everything better.


 I have taken 50mg of Proviron though out last 8 weeks of my cycle as my SHBG levels were very elevated in pre and mid cycle blood work (mid 80s down to high 50s). Would It be safe to run same dose of Winstrol alongside moderate doseages of Test E and Deca for 10 to 12 weeks?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> I have taken 50mg of Proviron though out last 8 weeks of my cycle as my SHBG levels were very elevated in pre and mid cycle blood work (mid 80s down to high 50s). Would It be safe to run same dose of Winstrol alongside moderate doseages of Test E and Deca for 10 to 12 weeks?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 25 mg winstrol daily will do the job. 50 mg for extra strength/vascularity/dryness. Run with TUDCA or use injectable.

Oral will be better at lowering SHBG via liver metabolism but is less bioavailable and more liver toxic.


----------



## Wayno

Should you only use hcg for a limited time?

Was watching a few bits the other day and there was suggestions that running hcg for a prolonged amount of time could damage the leydig cells ?


----------



## hardnfast

ElChapo said:


> 25 mg winstrol daily will do the job. 50 mg for extra strength/vascularity/dryness. Run with TUDCA or use injectable.
> 
> Oral will be better at lowering SHBG via liver metabolism but is less bioavailable and more liver toxic.


 Perfect, thanks. The dryness and vascularity was very noticeable for me with Proviron but like you say did nothing much else but make me insatiably hungry.


----------



## stewedw

hardnfast said:


> Perfect, thanks. The dryness and vascularity was very noticeable for me with Proviron but like you say did nothing much else but make me insatiably hungry.


 Hungry? That might be an effect some want when running tren. It would be interesting to see if others have this


----------



## hardnfast

stewedw said:


> Hungry? Hat might be an effect some want when running tren. It would be interesting to see if others have this


 I don't have anything to compare with so could also be attributed to the Test E but I started the Proviron in week 5 and from that day to now I can just eat!


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> Should you only use hcg for a limited time?
> 
> Was watching a few bits the other day and there was suggestions that running hcg for a prolonged amount of time could damage the leydig cells ?


 It's bullshit. Does LH/FSH damage the leydic cells?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Hungry? Hat might be an effect some want when running tren. It would be interesting to see if others have this


 Interesting effects. Some guys also feel nothing from masteron, others rave about it. Our genes affect our response to everything from drugs all the way to training.


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> It's bullshit. Does LH/FSH damage the leydic cells?


 Yeh fair point lol , so many people spreading/talking s**t on social networks


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Interesting effects. Some guys also feel nothing from masteron, others rave about it. Our genes affect our response to everything from drugs all the way to training.


 Speaking of masteron... What dose would be decent during a cut. Mast p. Would 100mg eod be worth bothering with?


----------



## 31205

Reason I ask I'm doing 1ml tren a every other day and don't really wanna jab more than 2ml eod.


----------



## ReRaise

@El Chapo @ghost.recon

How important would you say hgh (say hygetropin black tops at 5iu mon-fri) is to a contest prep.

At 8 weeks out and already running:

test/tren/mast

anavar/winstrol

clen/t3

The one thing that really pushes me into the realm of struggling financially to fund the prep is the addition of HGH. Would there be much detriment to omitting the HGH. Given that diet is in check would I be doing myself a dis-service conditionig wise if I dropped the HGH?


----------



## ElChapo

300-600 mg is nice for strength and focus in the gym and gives your testosterone extra kick while helping keep e2 sides in check with AI. +1 g is impressive for strength while keeping water down and it doesn't affect cardiovascular capacity.

I also like to run it when reversing gynecomastia with raloxifene, aromasin and TRT dosed testosterone. It works extremely well.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.recon
> 
> How important would you say hgh (say hygetropin black tops at 5iu mon-fri) is to a contest prep.
> 
> At 8 weeks out and already running:
> 
> test/tren/mast
> 
> anavar/winstrol
> 
> clen/t3
> 
> The one thing that really pushes me into the realm of struggling financially to fund the prep is the addition of HGH. Would there be much detriment to omitting the HGH. Given that diet is in check would I be doing myself a dis-service conditionig wise if I dropped the HGH?


 What division are you competing in? Plenty of guys come in looking great without it. Many hold water when going over 3 iu. It will make fat loss a bit easier and make you appear fuller, but for some it's overrated depending on the level you are competing in. People tend to drop it 1-4 weeks pre-contest.

What i would do is get a hold of some GH and see what it does for you, only you can decide it's financially worth the trouble for you.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> What division are you competing in? Plenty of guys come in looking great without it. Many hold water when going over 3 iu. It will make fat loss a bit easier and make you appear fuller, but for some it's overrated depending on the level you are competing in. People tend to drop it 1-4 weeks pre-contest.
> 
> What i would do is get a hold of some GH and see what it does for you, only you can decide it's financially worth the trouble for you.


 I'm competing in u80kg intermediate, so only low level. I've been running the hgh for the last 3-4 months and not really sure what it's bringing to my physique (given it's only Chinese generic anyway).... all I know is it's adding a large cost and I'm just worried about not being able to get as good condition without it. I was going to drop it at 2 weeks out anyway, but if I dropped it now at 8 weeks I'd save myself some cash!


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> I'm competing in u80kg intermediate, so only low level. I've been running the hgh for the last 3-4 months and not really sure what it's bringing to my physique (given it's only Chinese generic anyway).... all I know is it's adding a large cost and I'm just worried about not being able to get as good condition without it. I was going to drop it at 2 weeks out anyway, but if I dropped it now at 8 weeks I'd save myself some cash!


 That's what i'm saying, some people just don't get much out of it. Now if you are doing GH/Insulin combo and trying to get to the next level, or for anti-aging purposes it's a different story. You also don't know the authenticity of your GH without lab work.

I would always test a source of GH at least once with labs to ensure product is legit.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> 300-600 mg is nice for strength and focus in the gym and gives your testosterone extra kick while helping keep e2 sides in check with AI. +1 g is impressive for strength while keeping water down and it doesn't affect cardiovascular capacity.
> 
> I also like to run it when reversing gynecomastia with raloxifene, aromasin and TRT dosed testosterone. It works extremely well.


 So in terms of my physique it's not really worth doing? Would running winstrol be better instead?


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> So in terms of my physique it's not really worth doing? Would running winstrol be better instead?


 Winstrol is better in every regard besides libido. More strength, dryness and vascularity on a mg basis. I would always choose winstrol over masteron. You will see a lot more from upping the winstrol and dropping the mast and if you are going oral, you won't need to worry about the injection volume


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo

Is been known that Nolvadex use reduces IGF-1 in the body, what I cannot find around is what happen after discontinuing it (after a couple of years of regular 20mg ed)

1. will the IGF-1 go back to normal in the body?

2. And if so how long it will need? (roughly to have an idea)

3. Do AAS increase the body production of hgh or igf-1 anyhow?


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is been known that Nolvadex use reduces IGF-1 in the body, what I cannot find around is what happen after discontinuing it (after a couple of years of regular 20mg ed)
> 
> 1. will the IGF-1 go back to normal in the body?
> 
> 2. And if so how long it will need? (roughly to have an idea)
> 
> 3. Do AAS increase the body production of hgh or igf-1 anyhow?


 1/2:It will go back to normal, couple of weeks when estrogenic gene expression comes back to normal.

3: Some AAS are able to increase IGF-1 and enhance it's effect. Testosterone at 300 mg and over increases IGF-1, tren makes muscles more sensitive to IGF-1.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is better in every regard besides libido. More strength, dryness and vascularity on a mg basis. I would always choose winstrol over masteron. You will see a lot more from upping the winstrol and dropping the mast and if you are going oral, you won't need to worry about the injection volume


 Thank you. I'll start tomorrow.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> What is the zinc salt you are using? Elemental zinc is the pure zinc, but it's always attached to a salt, almost like an ester with AAS.
> 
> Yours might be gluconate, oxide, chelate, citrate, monomethionine etc. Check the bottle. Different mineral salts have different potency and bioavailability. Picolinate is the strongest.


 It says Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate with Copper Sulphate.


----------



## MrBishi

Whats your opinion on frontloading longer esters?

What examples of things to do with training can 23andme show you?


----------



## iambazza

@ElChapo is Halotestin really as androgenic as it is made out to be? If so, is the 5-alpha-reduced version of it the reason for the androgenicity as I know halo binds very weakly to the AR?

If you had to list the top 5 most androgenic steroids (as in steroids you will see and feel the most visible androgenic effects from), what would be top 5?

Thanks for all your hard work in this thread - it is very much appreciated!


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

just recently got blood work back
feel great, strength is up, making great progress , feeling great overall,, except my libido is down a bit, everything works just the desire isnt as strong as usual ... i usually need sex everyday even if hormones are out of whack .. just lately i havent really cared which is weird for me, also in the last week its taken me longer to blow my load, i usually have full control 
anyway 
im running 500 mg test, 500mg tren, and 750 eq... and 20mg nolva ED - no ai

test >52.0 nmol/l (Capped) 
free test >2000 pmol/l (capped)
SHBG 11 nmol/l (range - 17-66)
oestradiol 97 pmol/l (range <150)
DHT 6.8 nmol/l (range 0.4-2.5)
prolactin 21 mIU/l (range 45-375)
progest 4.4 nmol (range <4.1) 
hbA1c 31 ---5.0% (euglycaemic state)

liver, kidneys, rbc etc etc all in good range

just wondering if this is all in my head, or my ratios are off (especially estro - test.... and dht which is nearly 3x limit) my dht has always been naturally high 
curious on the shbg aswell- will this be freeing up too much estro?


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Re TUDCA: who/where is your preferred supplier for this?

What dose do you use?

Thanks


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

If I was to start winni at say 30mg ed for 5-6 weeks would tudca/nac really be needed??

Ps

killer thread guys, Just down right amazing and very informative. Out of interest how old are you guys if you don't mind me asking


----------



## SlinMeister

@bornagod as @ElChapo said... use TUDCA only if you go over 12+ weeks......


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> It says Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate with Copper Sulphate.


 Sulfates are an inferior salt a long with oxides. I would buy a different one.

Tip: A way to gauge the quality of a supplement or multivitamin is the salt used in the mineral content. Things like centrum use oxides and sulfates, because they are the cheapest. They are also the most poorly absorbed.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @bornagod as @ElChapo said... use TUDCA only if you go over 12+ weeks......


 Use TUDCA whenever you feel like keeping your liver unstressed.

I would recommend it whenever running any 17-alkylated steroid but you can obviously get away without for a 4 weeker. 250 mg daily is sufficient.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Whats your opinion on frontloading longer esters?
> 
> What examples of things to do with training can 23andme show you?


 Front loading isn't a bad idea, but the difference is neglible. You will get to max serum levels after which may confer a quicker genomic response.

Long esters don't take a longer time to kick in just because peak serum levels aren't reach until 4-6 weeks, but because gene expression has to happen first. If it were because of peak serum levels, propionate would kick in the first day.


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo How to avoid appetite suppression while on orals cycles ?

2-Do you think putting a oral to an aas stack that promote lean tissue like var winny is really beneficial and can enhance the injectable stack ?

3-Does m-tren is just a powerfull pre-wo steroid or it can used to add lean tissue ?

4-Can you put in your order of preferences your fav orals (i know the first is winny  )

5-Is it really necessary to splithgh doses ? I belive you mentionned in previous page to shot hgh in one sitting but I re-ask

6-What about sterility when you feel up a slin syringue ? I mean the oil is in contact with air so...

thanks a lot


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo How to avoid appetite suppression while on orals cycles ?
> 
> 2-Do you think putting a oral to an aas stack that promote lean tissue like var winny is really beneficial and can enhance the injectable stack ?
> 
> 3-Does m-tren is just a powerfull pre-wo steroid or it can used to add lean tissue ?
> 
> 4-Can you put in your order of preferences your fav orals (i know the first is winny  )
> 
> 5-Is it really necessary to splithgh doses ? I belive you mentionned in previous page to shot hgh in one sitting but I re-ask
> 
> 6-What about sterility when you feel up a slin syringue ? I mean the oil is in contact with air so...
> 
> thanks a lot


 GHRP 2 for appetite, it mimicks ghrelin, the hunger hormone and will increase IGF 1 and GH levels to further synergize with the orals.


----------



## ElChapo

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo is Halotestin really as androgenic as it is made out to be? If so, is the 5-alpha-reduced version of it the reason for the androgenicity as I know halo binds very weakly to the AR?
> 
> If you had to list the top 5 most androgenic steroids (as in steroids you will see and feel the most visible androgenic effects from), what would be top 5?
> 
> Thanks for all your hard work in this thread - it is very much appreciated!


 m tren, high dose mast, trenbolone, testostosterone prop, DHT. (tren with mast gave me hair growth on my delts and biceps.)

Halotestin is overrated, it will increase aggression. I have a couple of grams of legitimate halo, i got more strength from winstrol. It seems to be a potent neurosteroid but not much for composition.

working atm, will answer all questions when i get a minute.


----------



## supertesty

ElChapo said:


> GHRP 2 for appetite, it mimicks ghrelin, the hunger hormone and will increase IGF 1 and GH levels to further synergize with the orals.


 Is there a bug mate because I don't see the answer to the other questions  thanks for this one btw


----------



## bornagod

SlinMeister said:


> @bornagod as @ElChapo said... use TUDCA only if you go over 12+ weeks......


 Ye must have missed it in all chaos lol thanks though :thumb


----------



## MOMO

sen said:


> Got some mtren gathering dust here. 1mg tablets so what dose you recommend and how long for? Also should I take something like TUDCA with it?


 Sen I Got some Mt in my box of tricks at the moment I'm thinking to run it twice a week at 400mcg of Quad training day and Shoulders only thing is next morning I wake up looking like I smoked Crack all night, so what I'm doing is running Glutathione and Vitamin C IV on those days I,m interested to ask Ghost and ELCHappo about this.

Sen would you run MT along with your regular tren shots?


----------



## bornagod

MOMO said:


> Sen I Got some Mt in my box of tricks at the moment I'm thinking to run it twice a week at 400mcg of Quad training day and Shoulders only thing is next morning I wake up looking like I smoked Crack all night, so what I'm doing is running Glutathione and Vitamin C IV on those days I,m interested to ask Ghost and ELCHappo about this.
> 
> Sen would you run MT along with your regular tren shots?


 Why not just tag @ElChapo and @ghost.recon with your question


----------



## MOMO

Hello Gents Ghost/ELChapo thank you for this extremely informative AMA.

My questions are if I may....

1.Glutathione. I'm currently running Glutathione 600mg/ Vitc 300mg IV three times a week. should I reduce this perhaps to twice a week or once a week?

Im always on just to different degrees, currently 150mg Tren Ace/ 110mg Test prop / 75mg Mast Prop EOD (No Orals) as I just feel unwell and super lathargic.

2. can I run 400mcg Tren M on particular days like quad days shoulder days whilst running Tren Ace EOD?

Regards

MOMO


----------



## MOMO

bornagod said:


> Why not just tag @ElChapo and @ghost.recon with your question


 Cause I don't know how too mate?


----------



## bornagod

MOMO said:


> Cause I don't know how too mate?


 Ok no probs. Add @ and then start typing the person's user name and click the 1 you want..........simples


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo How to avoid appetite suppression while on orals cycles ?
> 
> 2-Do you think putting a oral to an aas stack that promote lean tissue like var winny is really beneficial and can enhance the injectable stack ?
> 
> 3-Does m-tren is just a powerfull pre-wo steroid or it can used to add lean tissue ?
> 
> 4-Can you put in your order of preferences your fav orals (i know the first is winny  )
> 
> 5-Is it really necessary to splithgh doses ? I belive you mentionned in previous page to shot hgh in one sitting but I re-ask
> 
> 6-What about sterility when you feel up a slin syringue ? I mean the oil is in contact with air so...
> 
> thanks a lot


 2- orals are a great way to increase the value and mileage of any cycle, and you get the benefit of not having to pin anything.

3- Mtren is great for body recomp, it will make you dry and help with strength and body recomp. Not just PWO.

4-Winstrol injectable/oral, sdrol injectable, m tren injectable. Dbol is titty fuel and adds too much water. I don't like it. Halo isn't worth the cash, m tren is what halo is supposed to be.

5-Once daily

6-No issue here, unless you are backfilling in a dumpster.


----------



## ElChapo

MOMO said:


> Sen I Got some Mt in my box of tricks at the moment I'm thinking to run it twice a week at 400mcg of Quad training day and Shoulders only thing is next morning I wake up looking like I smoked Crack all night, so what I'm doing is running Glutathione and Vitamin C IV on those days I,m interested to ask Ghost and ELCHappo about this.
> 
> Sen would you run MT along with your regular tren shots?


 Is it affecting your skin? What do you mean?


----------



## ElChapo

MOMO said:


> Hello Gents Ghost/ELChapo thank you for this extremely informative AMA.
> 
> My questions are if I may....
> 
> 1.Glutathione. I'm currently running Glutathione 600mg/ Vitc 300mg IV three times a week. should I reduce this perhaps to twice a week or once a week?
> 
> Im always on just to different degrees, currently 150mg Tren Ace/ 110mg Test prop / 75mg Mast Prop EOD (No Orals) as I just feel unwell and super lathargic.
> 
> 2. can I run 400mcg Tren M on particular days like quad days shoulder days whilst running Tren Ace EOD?
> 
> Regards
> 
> MOMO


 What was the last time you took a break from tren and everything else? How long have you been lethargic for and can you pinpoint when it started? Vit C and glut won't do s**t for your fatigue.

M tren is good stuff, i would run it if you can handle it. Injectable recommended. Better bioavailability, much less liver stress.


----------



## supertesty

ElChapo said:


> 2- orals are a great way to increase the value and mileage of any cycle, and you get the benefit of not having to pin anything.
> 
> 3- Mtren is great for body recomp, it will make you dry and help with strength and body recomp. Not just PWO.
> 
> 4-Winstrol injectable/oral, sdrol injectable, m tren injectable. Dbol is titty fuel and adds to much water. I don't like it.
> 
> 5-Once daily
> 
> 6-No issue here, unless you are backfilling in a dumpster.


 Dbol is titty fuel -> This gonna be a famous quote ROFL

Ok got it mate, thanks a lot for this !

Used injectable sdrol 2days at 10mg, it screw my appetite like anything else, my ast/alt was at 100 during 1 month loool


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Dbol is titty fuel -> This gonna be a famous quote ROFL
> 
> Ok got it mate, thanks a lot for this !
> 
> Used injectable sdrol 2days at 10mg, it screw my appetite like anything else, my ast/alt was at 100 during 1 month loool


 D bol+aromatase = methyl estradiol. Basically the E2 version of M-tren, very strong s**t.

Yeah, run it with tudca. You are sensitive to it, some guys can get away more crazy s**t than others.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo I received my medichecks today but it was at 3 pm its now 4:18pm in the instructions it says to take the blood in the morning is that really necessary ?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo I received my medichecks today but it was at 3 pm its now 4:18pm in the instructions it says to take the blood in the morning is that really necessary ?


 Certain hormones will be affected by time of day like testosterone, cortisol and thyroid. It doesnt matter if you are taking exogenous testosterone and arent checking thyroid or cortisol.

Cholesterol/triglycerides/Blood glucose can be affected by eating/fasting


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Certain hormones will be affected by time of day like testosterone, cortisol and thyroid. It doesnt matter if you are taking exogenous testosterone and arent checking thyroid or cortisol.
> 
> Cholesterol/triglycerides/Blood glucose can be affected by eating/fasting


 Ok thank you I best do it in the morning then as im doing full bloods check up.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

This may be a stupid question however I read on a forum someone saying that his doctor said using TUDCA which is beneficial to liver health while on orals will give a false higher reading when getting LFT blood test done.

He said that when running an oral and TUDCA that TUDCA essentially accelerates liver repair and thus LFTs will show higher.

if true this could explane why my ALT was around 450 on 80mg tbol after 3 weeks as I was running TUDCA along side it each day splitting the dose. FYI 2 weeks later both ALT and AST were back in range!


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Thanks for this very informative ama, absolute awesome stuff!

I can't handle the sides with tren, although it is the best compound ive used. So at the minute I'm cutting down to single figures then lean bulking, what could I use to replace tren?

And what compounds are great for a lean bulk?

Was thinking test, mast, eq with winstrol?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> This may be a stupid question however I read on a forum someone saying that his doctor said using TUDCA which is beneficial to liver health while on orals will give a false higher reading when getting LFT blood test done.
> 
> He said that when running an oral and TUDCA that TUDCA essentially accelerates liver repair and thus LFTs will show higher.
> 
> if true this could explane why my ALT was around 450 on 80mg tbol after 3 weeks as I was running TUDCA along side it each day splitting the dose. FYI 2 weeks later both ALT and AST were back in range!


 Nope, TUDCA is THE reference drug for lowering liver enzymes.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Whats your opinion on frontloading longer esters?
> 
> What examples of things to do with training can 23andme show you?


 23andme can show you if you have more fast twitch or slow twitch muscle fiber.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Re TUDCA: who/where is your preferred supplier for this?
> 
> What dose do you use?
> 
> Thanks


 Amazon/Ebay

UDCA is a good alternative and can be obtain as pharmaceutical grade.

250 mg-1 g depending on how harsh the orals are, length of cycle, and sensitivity.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> just recently got blood work back
> feel great, strength is up, making great progress , feeling great overall,, except my libido is down a bit, everything works just the desire isnt as strong as usual ... i usually need sex everyday even if hormones are out of whack .. just lately i havent really cared which is weird for me, also in the last week its taken me longer to blow my load, i usually have full control
> anyway
> im running 500 mg test, 500mg tren, and 750 eq... and 20mg nolva ED - no ai
> 
> test >52.0 nmol/l (Capped)
> free test >2000 pmol/l (capped)
> SHBG 11 nmol/l (range - 17-66)
> oestradiol 97 pmol/l (range <150)
> DHT 6.8 nmol/l (range 0.4-2.5)
> prolactin 21 mIU/l (range 45-375)
> progest 4.4 nmol (range <4.1)
> hbA1c 31 ---5.0% (euglycaemic state)
> 
> liver, kidneys, rbc etc etc all in good range
> 
> just wondering if this is all in my head, or my ratios are off (especially estro - test.... and dht which is nearly 3x limit) my dht has always been naturally high
> curious on the shbg aswell- will this be freeing up too much estro?


 Your issue is most likely nolvadex or tren. Can you pinpoint what changes you've made when libido started to change? Have you ran tren/nolva before?

Tren can cause delayed ejaculation in many people including myself. Your E2 looks great on no AI, very surprising.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> If I was to start winni at say 30mg ed for 5-6 weeks would tudca/nac really be needed??
> 
> Ps
> 
> killer thread guys, Just down right amazing and very informative. Out of interest how old are you guys if you don't mind me asking


 You won't need it, it's always nice for prophylaxis though.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Thanks for this very informative ama, absolute awesome stuff!
> 
> I can't handle the sides with tren, although it is the best compound ive used. So at the minute I'm cutting down to single figures then lean bulking, what could I use to replace tren?
> 
> And what compounds are great for a lean bulk?
> 
> Was thinking test, mast, eq with winstrol?


 700 mg winstrol will give you some impressive tren like effects. If you can handle 200 mg tren ace per week, it will still do a lot for you.

Lean bulk will come down to optimal caloric surplus for minimal fat gain/maximum lean tissue gain. I like things that will keep you dry and promote strength and lean tissue increases. You can't go wrong with testosterone+AI, winstrol, methyl tren, superdrol. Tren is the bomb and if you can fit it into your lean bulk at a lower dose, it will help you but none of these drugs are really "necessary" for lean bulking.

Test, mast, EQ, winstrol will be fantastic for lean bulk. You will stay dry and full and strong while adding clean mass. Just do your best to dial in your caloric intake and keep fat intake as low as you can. Carbs and protein are what will build lean tissue. Fat is only for flavor/vitamin absorption.


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> 700 mg winstrol will give you some impressive tren like effects. If you can handle 200 mg tren ace per week, it will still do a lot for you.
> 
> Lean bulk will come down to optimal caloric surplus for minimal fat gain/maximum lean tissue gain. I like things that will keep you dry and promote strength and lean tissue increases. You can't go wrong with testosterone+AI, winstrol, methyl tren, superdrol. Tren is the bomb and if you can fit it into your lean bulk at a lower dose, it will help you but none of these drugs are really "necessary" for lean bulking.
> 
> Test, mast, EQ, winstrol will be fantastic for lean bulk. You will stay dry and full and strong while adding clean mass. Just do your best to dial in your caloric intake and keep fat intake as low as you can. Carbs and protein are what will build lean tissue. Fat is only for flavor/vitamin absorption.


 Brilliant, thanks for that reply.

Once I'm sub 10% I will aim for 0.5-1lb per week gain on lean bulk.

Roughly how many grams of fat would you recommend on a lean bulk as I know you say keep them fairy low?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Amazon/Ebay
> 
> UDCA is a good alternative and can be obtain as pharmaceutical grade.
> 
> 250 mg-1 g depending on how harsh the orals are, length of cycle, and sensitivity.


 Muchas gracias!


----------



## MOMO

bornagod said:


> Ok no probs. Add @ and then start typing the person's user name and click the 1 you want..........simples


 Thanks Bud


----------



## MOMO

ElChapo said:


> Is it affecting your skin? What do you mean?


 Not skin its my eyes they go Blood shot?


----------



## MOMO

ElChapo said:


> What was the last time you took a break from tren and everything else? How long have you been lethargic for and can you pinpoint when it started? Vit C and glut won't do s**t for your fatigue.
> 
> M tren is good stuff, i would run it if you can handle it. Injectable recommended. Better bioavailability, much less liver stress.


 I've been on tren for a good 9 months prior to that I was running var and winni like skittles all was good till the end of my recent bulk, I came off orals and I'm good still do AM cardio training 6 days a week and eating extremely clean. Done my blood test two weeks ago everything was good my Alt/Ast were elevated but nothing to an alarming state. I don't have it at hand however if I remember clearly the Average was between 33-55 I was at 153 while on orals and tren?

I can handle mt and I have injectable but at reasonable amounts 200/400mcg

so Glutathione not worth it? I gather you recommend TUDCA?

I already run NAC 1800MG a day.

And Like the rest of the Guys I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> 700 mg winstrol will give you some impressive tren like effects. If you can handle 200 mg tren ace per week, it will still do a lot for you.
> 
> Lean bulk will come down to optimal caloric surplus for minimal fat gain/maximum lean tissue gain. I like things that will keep you dry and promote strength and lean tissue increases. You can't go wrong with testosterone+AI, winstrol, methyl tren, superdrol. Tren is the bomb and if you can fit it into your lean bulk at a lower dose, it will help you but none of these drugs are really "necessary" for lean bulking.
> 
> Test, mast, EQ, winstrol will be fantastic for lean bulk. You will stay dry and full and strong while adding clean mass. Just do your best to dial in your caloric intake and keep fat intake as low as you can. Carbs and protein are what will build lean tissue. Fat is only for flavor/vitamin absorption.


 What sort of dosages do people use udca at?


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> Brilliant, thanks for that reply.
> 
> Once I'm sub 10% I will aim for 0.5-1lb per week gain on lean bulk.
> 
> Roughly how many grams of fat would you recommend on a lean bulk as I know you say keep them fairy low?


 As low as you can, in a surplus, fat will be directly stored.

In order to store carbs and protein as fat, they need to be broken down first which is less efficient. This is a good thing.


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> As low as you can, in a surplus, fat will be directly stored.
> 
> In order to store carbs and protein as fat, they need to be broken down first which is less efficient. This is a good thing.


 Awesome thanks


----------



## ElChapo

MOMO said:


> I've been on tren for a good 9 months prior to that I was running var and winni like skittles all was good till the end of my recent bulk, I came off orals and I'm good still do AM cardio training 6 days a week and eating extremely clean. Done my blood test two weeks ago everything was good my Alt/Ast were elevated but nothing to an alarming state. I don't have it at hand however if I remember clearly the Average was between 33-55 I was at 153 while on orals and tren?
> 
> I can handle mt and I have injectable but at reasonable amounts 200/400mcg
> 
> so Glutathione not worth it? I gather you recommend TUDCA?
> 
> I already run NAC 1800MG a day.
> 
> And Like the rest of the Guys I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge


 Glutathione isn't as effective as NAC in increasing actual liver glutathione stores.

NAC increase glutathione more than actually taking glutathione.

NAC and TUDCA will do the job.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> What sort of dosages do people use udca at?


 Same as TUDCA, 250 mg-1 g

They are virtually identical beside the addition of the taurine molecule which enhances bioavailability somewhat.


----------



## stewedw

Couple of things.

I have NAC 600mg tabs by a company called Swanson. What dose is required daily? (I'll buy TUDCA tomorrow and start keeping proper care of liver as it's been half hearted just now. Where is best to buy this? )

I've used oral winny with anavar (neuro pharma lab, stanavar 25mg of each per tab) ran four tabs a day two years ago with test and loved it. Is injectable winny better?

When bulking you mention keeping fat low if on a surplus. Usually I get 70-90g per day, 200p, 300c (98kg 12%bf) so would lowering the fat and ranking up the carbs be better?

Thanks guys. I've saved most of these answers, tremendous thread.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Tip: A way to gauge the quality of a supplement or multivitamin is the salt used in the mineral content. Things like centrum use oxides and sulfates, because they are the cheapest. They are also the most poorly absorbed.


 Never knew this and I use Centrum Advance. can you recommend a good quality multivitamin, ZMA/Zinc sup, available for purchase in the uk? in fact, would you be so kind, to just recommend some health supps worth incorporating.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> I have NAC 600mg tabs by a company called Swanson. What dose is required daily? (I'll buy TUDCA tomorrow and start keeping proper care of liver as it's been half hearted just now. Where is best to buy this? )
> 
> I've used oral winny with anavar (neuro pharma lab, stanavar 25mg of each per tab) ran four tabs a day two years ago with test and loved it. Is injectable winny better?
> 
> When bulking you mention keeping fat low if on a surplus. Usually I get 70-90g per day, 200p, 300c (98kg 12%bf) so would lowering the fat and ranking up the carbs be better?
> 
> Thanks guys. I've saved most of these answers, tremendous thread.


 600 mg-1.2 g NAC daily

TUDCA can be found on amazon/EBAY.

If you can get your hands on it, Pharma UDCA is even better as it will be USP grade. Look for Ursodiol or Urso Forte, actigal, or udiliv brand names.

Injectable winstrol will require lower doses as bioavailability will be much higher, liver toxicity will be much lower. 50 mg EOD injectable = 50 mg ED oral, roughly. It will hit you harder and faster. Stick to oil injectables, less chance of infection, abscess and pip than water based.

Yes, high carbs will keep performance, strength and muscle fullness at peak levels. Fat is doing nothing for you but adding calories. Keep fat under 50 g. Use it only for flavor.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> 600 mg-1.2 g NAC daily
> 
> TUDCA can be found on amazon/EBAY.
> 
> If you can get your hands on it, Pharma UDCA is even better as it will be USP grade. Look for Ursodiol or Urso Forte brand names.
> 
> Injectable winstrol will require lower doses as bioavailability will be much higher, liver toxicity will be much lower. 50 mg EOD injectable = 50 mg ED oral, roughly. It will hit you harder and faster. Stick to oil injectables, less chance of infection, abscess and pip.
> 
> Yes, high carbs will performance, strength and muscle fullness at peak levels. Fat is doing nothing for you but adding calories. Keep fat under 50 g. Use it only for flavor.


 Amazing as always. Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Never knew this and I use Centrum Advance. can you recommend a good quality multivitamin, ZMA/Zinc sup, available for purchase in the uk? in fact, would you be so kind, to just recommend some health supps worth incorporating.


 I like controlled labs orange triad and source naturals life force. Both are excellent quality and use the most bioavailable vitamins/minerals.

If you have a balanced diet, you don't really need a multivitamin, but bodybuilders and athletes have strict requirements and aren't always able to get a good variety of foods in there diet, especially when cutting/making weight for a fight/etc.

You won't need ZMA if you are taking a good multivitamin. 20-30 mg Zinc per day will cover you and that's without meat intake.

If you want to ask me about supplements regarding a specific function, it would be easier to recommend one. 90% of supplements are bullshit, but there is some really good stuff out there if you know how to analyze the research and sift through the garbage.


----------



## ryanb95

@ElChapo

im going to run this cycle

Test Prop 600mg EW

NPP 600mg EW

Anadrol 50mg ED

Dbol 20mg ED

Methyl Tren 500mcg EOD Pre Workout

My question is shall I drop the Dbol because all of this is too much for the E2 because I know this is a very heavy stack?


----------



## Pump Junkie

Some amazing information in this Q&A. Ive been lurking for a while but actually decided to join as a result of this post.

So...Here's my question.

If one is running a Testosterone free cycle can HCG be used to maintain natural endogenous testosterone levels? Im aware HCG maintains ITT volume but is there any studies showing it maintains testosterone levels when used. Surely this is so as testosterone is produced in the testes or does it purely maintain sperm levels?

If so would it be wise to use HCG at a low dose alongside a primo anavar cycle if no testosterone is being used. Would this make recovery harder or easier on such a light cycle as HCG suppresses GNRH and thus LH causing further supression of the pituitary but preventing testicular shutdown.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MOMO

ElChapo said:


> Glutathione isn't as effective as NAC in increasing actual liver glutathione stores.
> 
> NAC increase glutathione more than actually taking glutathione.
> 
> NAC and TUDCA will do the job.


 ElChapo

What I mean was Glutathione TAD 600Mg interveniously with injectable Vitamin C so I reconstitute it and shoot into the vein. Its pharmaceutical Grade Glutathione trade name TAD 600MG.


----------



## ElChapo

ryanb95 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> im going to run this cycle
> 
> Test Prop 600mg EW
> 
> NPP 600mg EW
> 
> Anadrol 50mg ED
> 
> Dbol 20mg ED
> 
> Methyl Tren 500mcg EOD Pre Workout
> 
> My question is shall I drop the Dbol because all of this is too much for the E2 because I know this is a very heavy stack?


 Replace dbol with winstrol, it will limit the water retention from the aromatizable steroids and give you more strength and lean tissue. Run it at 50-100 mg ED. You will be impressed by its effect on strength, and vascularity/dryness if you arent too fat.

I would also watch the E2 since methyl tren is in the mix. trenbolone can also cause gyno in susceptible individuals especially when e2 isnt kept tight.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Your issue is most likely nolvadex or tren. Can you pinpoint what changes you've made when libido started to change? Have you ran tren/nolva before?
> 
> Tren can cause delayed ejaculation in many people including myself. Your E2 looks great on no AI, very surprising.


 nope, cant pinpoint any changes, just randomly started happening around the last 2 weeks.... ive used nolva for a very long time with a majority of my cycles ... it actually cured puberty gyno so i stuck with it ....

i agree with the e2 being in range is weird.... ive had bloods before ; same scenario mid way through this cycle and estro was higher ( at higher end of e2 range) and its somehow gone down ? only thing i can think is ive been using cyclorem supplement which has zma in it, and im thinking the zinc is lowering it ? or .... the dht being so high is lowering it ?

also, with the shbg being lowish... would this be freeing up alot of estro ? so the nolva is blocking the receptors but estro is floating around my body ??

other than that i feel great... only problem is delayed ejaculation ... my wife doesnt mind and it can make sex way better for her .... just annoys me i dont have control ... if anything it feels like my estro is just a bit too low ... im wondering if hcg can make this situation better?

thank you for your wealth of knowledge


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> nope, cant pinpoint any changes, just randomly started happening around the last 2 weeks.... ive used nolva for a very long time with a majority of my cycles ... it actually cured puberty gyno so i stuck with it ....
> 
> i agree with the e2 being in range is weird.... ive had bloods before ; same scenario mid way through this cycle and estro was higher ( at higher end of e2 range) and its somehow gone down ? only thing i can think is ive been using cyclorem supplement which has zma in it, and im thinking the zinc is lowering it ? or .... the dht being so high is lowering it ?
> 
> also, with the shbg being lowish... would this be freeing up alot of estro ? so the nolva is blocking the receptors but estro is floating around my body ??
> 
> other than that i feel great... only problem is delayed ejaculation ... my wife doesnt mind and it can make sex way better for her .... just annoys me i dont have control ... if anything it feels like my estro is just a bit too low ... im wondering if hcg can make this situation better?
> 
> thank you for your wealth of knowledge


 yep, estradiol could be a bit higher.

Nolvadex aint something i would recommend long term, you dont need it once the gyno is gone. Just use AI to keep E2 within normal limits and bring out nolvadex if you get a flare up.

Look up recent studies showing that nolvadex is toxic to the brain. Aromatase inhibitor is much safer.

Tren can cause the delay in ejaculation and lowered libido.

Side effects with tren can be different everytime you run it. sometimes i never get the gastric reflux, other times its bad.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> I like controlled labs orange triad and source naturals life force. Both are excellent quality and use the most bioavailable vitamins/minerals.
> 
> If you have a balanced diet, you don't really need a multivitamin, but bodybuilders and athletes have strict requirements and aren't always able to get a good variety of foods in there diet, especially when cutting/making weight for a fight/etc.
> 
> You won't need ZMA if you are taking a good multivitamin. 20-30 mg Zinc per day will cover you and that's without meat intake.
> 
> If you want to ask me about supplements regarding a specific function, it would be easier to recommend one. 90% of supplements are bullshit, but there is some really good stuff out there if you know how to analyze the research and sift through the garbage.


 What would be you're top 3 supplements & which ones are the bullshit ?


----------



## Rockstar61811

Thank you for your expert advise Elchapo. Can you give your opinion on testosterone and heart health - for guys running TRT at the upper end 200-250mg per week do you think there are health concerns around the heart and plaque build up etc?


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo if on 300mg test on a small surplus which would be more beneficial to run intermittently 100mg winny for 4 weeks or 50mg for 8 weeeks? Just to run a few times through a year as a small increase in dose


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo do you recommend that cruise TestE 200mg + TrenE 200mg + MastE 200mg week in cutting phase?

Thanks and glad to read your knowledges!


----------



## Nelly78

ElChapo said:


> 23andme can show you if you have more fast twitch or slow twitch muscle fiber.


 Been thinking about doing the 23andMe thing for a while for various reasons. You points raised in this thread have made the decision for me! Ordered today.

Thank you so much for the time your taking to prove all this great information!


----------



## hardnfast

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

I'm planning Test E and Deca for my second cycle (with the addition of Winstrol after following this thread) and there is some difference in opinion it would seem between ratios of these two compounds. For instance I would look to run either:

500mg Test E with 250/300mg Deca
500mg Deca with 250/300mg Test E

Would seem that higher Deca would be superior as the "stronger" compound and Test is supplement to prevent issues with shutdown. What are your thoughts on this if estrogen is controlled in both scenarios?

Many thanks.


----------



## SlinMeister

hardnfast said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> I'm planning Test E and Deca for my second cycle (with the addition of Winstrol after following this thread) and there is some difference in opinion it would seem between ratios of these two compounds. For instance I would look to run either:
> 
> 500mg Test E with 250/300mg Deca
> 500mg Deca with 250/300mg Test E
> 
> Would seem that higher Deca would be superior as the "stronger" compound and Test is supplement to prevent issues with shutdown. What are your thoughts on this if estrogen is controlled in both scenarios?
> 
> Many thanks.


 Imho with Winstrol IN you won't have any issues....

The dosage of TEST depends on you, since these are PEDS, TEST can give you some more kick at 500mg that at 300mg won't give... so it's up to you to choose....

Personally i would try 250-300 TestE 500-600 Deca 350 Winstrol.

After reading @ElChapo considerations about Winstrol and from my little experience on it, i think i will use it for bulking phases.

Unfortunately i am a pussy and estro prone, so for me Dbol and Anadrol are a big issue, have to stick to dry AAS, or things i can control with AIs.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> What would be you're top 3 supplements & which ones are the bullshit ?


 Important vitamins/minerals that you aren't getting from diet/sunlight. Good examples are magnesium, Vitamin D and Vitamin K2. Zinc is really good too.

Curcumin/pycnogenol are very potent anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory herbs.

I don't really have a top 3 as the question is too broad, i could answer more specifically for certain conditions or specific needs.


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> Thank you for your expert advise Elchapo. Can you give your opinion on testosterone and heart health - for guys running TRT at the upper end 200-250mg per week do you think there are health concerns around the heart and plaque build up etc?


 Studies show that total testosterone levels in the upper tertile have the strongest protective effect. 200-250 mg per week will usually put people around 1,000-1,200 ng/dL which is close to that level. High and low E2 can be bad for the vascular system. Low E2 increases risk of atherosclerosis(calcification of the arteries) High E2 increases the risk of myocardial infarction(Heart attack)

Most importantly, do regular cardiovascular exercise and stay at 15% body fat MAX. Fat cells release inflammatory compounds, this is one of the reasons obesity is linked to so many health issues and increased cancer risk, etc. Keep BP at 130/80 MAX for longer periods of time.

VItamin K2 is good for keeping arteries free of calcium and Cialis will keep the endothelial layer soft, supple, and elastic.

So to round up the response, you will be fine and it should actually help granted you keep yourself healthy in all other aspects and control E2.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo if on 300mg test on a small surplus which would be more beneficial to run intermittently 100mg winny for 4 weeks or 50mg for 8 weeeks? Just to run a few times through a year as a small increase in dose


 50 mg for 8 weeks. Remember gene expression is your friend, gene expression takes time. You won't see much in a 4 week cycle of anything.

Go for 12 weeks, this is when body compositon(fat loss/muscle gain) changes peak and are noticeable.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo do you recommend that cruise TestE 200mg + TrenE 200mg + MastE 200mg week in cutting phase?
> 
> Thanks and glad to read your knowledges!


 That will do great, your diet/deficit/training will dictate the results of your cut. You don't need a lot to preserve muscle, but dose requirement will increase depending on how much muscle you are holding on to, how poor your diet is, etc.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

is winstrol known to cause anxiety if so would anavar be a better alternative thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> is winstrol known to cause anxiety if so would anavar be a better alternative thanks


 Not particularly, but it may be your individual response to the drug or maybe it was spiked with a stimulant/T3.( highly unlikely but possible)

Androgens can cause anxiety in some people due to upregulating adrenergic neurotransmission in the brain (boosts adrenaline), but androgens also increase GABA, which can promote calm and relaxation. Your genetics and environment will tip the scale towards one or the other.

Note that testosterone increases pro-social behavior in men in times of peace, but when challenged, increases reactive-aggression or assertiveness. This has been documented in behavioral studies and noted anecdotally by many AAS users who notice an "alpha calm/confidence/Nothing bothers me attitude" but also assertiveness in situations where one is being challenged.


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> I'm planning Test E and Deca for my second cycle (with the addition of Winstrol after following this thread) and there is some difference in opinion it would seem between ratios of these two compounds. For instance I would look to run either:
> 
> 500mg Test E with 250/300mg Deca
> 500mg Deca with 250/300mg Test E
> 
> Would seem that higher Deca would be superior as the "stronger" compound and Test is supplement to prevent issues with shutdown. What are your thoughts on this if estrogen is controlled in both scenarios?
> 
> Many thanks.


 What are your goals? If you are going for mass, just go 500/500 test/deca with AI. Eat a 500 calorie surplus, train hard and you will explode.

2-3 mg adex per week should be close to what you need. Winstrol will keep you extra dry, add vascularity, strength and lean tissue.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> I like controlled labs orange triad and source naturals life force. Both are excellent quality and use the most bioavailable vitamins/minerals.
> 
> If you have a balanced diet, you don't really need a multivitamin, but bodybuilders and athletes have strict requirements and aren't always able to get a good variety of foods in there diet, especially when cutting/making weight for a fight/etc.
> 
> You won't need ZMA if you are taking a good multivitamin. 20-30 mg Zinc per day will cover you and that's without meat intake.
> 
> If you want to ask me about supplements regarding a specific function, it would be easier to recommend one. 90% of supplements are bullshit, but there is some really good stuff out there if you know how to analyze the research and sift through the garbage.


 I implemented ZMA, as the Centrum Advance multivitamin I use, only offers me 5mg, the ZMA was adding an additional 30mg.

My diet is fairly good and clean, I'm always making sure, I eat a lot of veg and fruit, lots of whole foods and whole grains. I do however want to include general health supps.

Ideally, what would be optimum health supps for one wanting to improve & maximise;

Heart health, wellbeing, immune system, stamina, joint aid, sleep, digestion, health in general etc. just any health supplements, that you could recommend or that you use yourself on a daily basis to try and get that edge in optimising your health & function.

Would you Centrum is a poor choice of multivitamin?

You mention cutting for a fight, which has me curious for someone looking to gain an edge for a boxing match or MMA fight, what would you recommend ped wise? particularly boxing. Thanks again, can't thank you enough lol.


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

i take around 300-360mg codeine daily is there any orals I should avoid? Mainly is it ok to use

t3

clen

dnp

sib

winny

alongside codeine


----------



## hardnfast

ElChapo said:


> What are your goals? If you are going for mass, just go 500/500 test/deca with AI. Eat a 500 calorie surplus, train hard and you will explode.
> 
> 2-3 mg adex per week should be close to what you need.


 Yes, I am all about putting on some size over the next couple years. Have added 10kg in my first cycle with respectably low body fat at the end and that was 450mg Test E and 350mg Proviron with between 500-800 calorie surplus for 13 weeks. I actually hit a wall after 10 weeks and even additional increase of up to 300 calories added no more weight. Going to run PCT Meds from Monday and hope to keep most of it as I am not holding too much water.

I like the thought of keeping dosages as low as possible but high enough to see the benefit with dialled in diet and training. Also used Aromasin on first cycle and managed that very well. Only sides I had throughout was a very minor break out of spots on chest and back in week 13.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> I implemented ZMA, as the Centrum Advance multivitamin I use, only offers me 5mg, the ZMA was adding an additional 30mg.
> 
> My diet is fairly good and clean, I'm always making sure, I eat a lot of veg and fruit, lots of whole foods and whole grains. I do however want to include general health supps.
> 
> Ideally, what would be optimum health supps for one wanting to improve & maximise;
> 
> Heart health, wellbeing, immune system, stamina, joint aid, sleep, digestion, health in general etc. just any health supplements, that you could recommend or that you use yourself on a daily basis to try and get that edge in optimising your health & function.
> 
> Would you Centrum is a poor choice of multivitamin?
> 
> You mention cutting for a fight, which has me curious for someone looking to gain an edge for a boxing match or MMA fight, what would you recommend ped wise? particularly boxing. Thanks again, can't thank you enough lol.


 Cardiovascular exercise is the #1 supplement for Heart health, wellbeing, immune system, stamina, joint aid, sleep, digestion, health in general etc.

Curcumin+piperine and pycnogenol/pine bark extract are my go-to for inflammation and oxidation. They are very potent in this regard. They can also aid with joints, cognition, stamina, circulation, immunity and well being. I highly recommend them.

Centrum is garbage.

For boxing/MMA, modafanil will improve reflexes and focus without causing jitteriness/anxiety. You can run this for a fight or incorporate it into your technique block of your training to enhance motor learning, etc. Those with a VAL/VAL polymorphism in the COMT enzyme gene respond best to modafanil supplementation. This is also know as the warrior gene. The opposite gene is known as the worrier gene, these people won't get much from modafanil.

150 mg testosterone+ 25-50 mg winstrol ED or 150/150 test/tren is effective for athletes who need to make weight/stay lean and strong. I know a pro boxer who runs 250 mg test+100 mg tren ace. He runs 6 miles a day minimum. Use DNP if you have to cut weight fast, but give yourself a week or two before the fight to recover from it's glycogen depleting effect. You will also drop water after you discontinue it.

Personally, i only see a negative effect on cardiovascular endurance over 300 mg tren ace per week. Anything under that, i feel enhances performance. If you need to be extra dry and cut water while retaining strength, energy and performance, you can run 50 mg winstrol only. Everyone is different though, so experiment and find what works best for you.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i take around 300-360mg codeine daily is there any orals I should avoid? Mainly is it ok to use
> 
> t3
> 
> clen
> 
> dnp
> 
> sib
> 
> winny
> 
> alongside codeine


 You're good to go.


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> Yes, I am all about putting on some size over the next couple years. Have added 10kg in my first cycle with respectably low body fat at the end and that was 450mg Test E and 350mg Proviron with between 500-800 calorie surplus for 13 weeks. I actually hit a wall after 10 weeks and even additional increase of up to 300 calories added no more weight. Going to run PCT Meds from Monday and hope to keep most of it as I am not holding too much water.
> 
> I like the thought of keeping dosages as low as possible but high enough to see the benefit with dialled in diet and training. Also used Aromasin on first cycle and managed that very well. Only sides I had throughout was a very minor break out of spots on chest and back in week 13.


 Always remember to switch up the stimulus to the muscle. If you are doing bodybuilder split, switch it up to powerlifting style training and vice versa. There's a point where throwing drugs and calories at a plateau leads to diminishing returns.

I agree, i am not against low or high dosages, but what you need to optimally and maximally accelerate gains. People goals will dictate the dosages but i am always against using AAS as a crutch for suboptimal training and nutrition as it will always backfire. These are the guys that shrink off-cycle or when going back to cruise doses/TRT.


----------



## Raposo

Look this photo










As far as I understood it's not neccesary to consume D3

The deficit of the vitamin D it's for agonism deficit of VDR, so it does have nothing to do with low levels of D3OH (which is what we try to messure in the test).

They are people who has levels of 5 in D3OH (when it's supposed we have to get over 30) and they have no problems about vit D deficit.

On the chart above, we can check that the important it's the level of 1,25

When we get overdoses of D3, they block the VDR, and that can generate inmunological problems.. the blocking of VDR causes (besides other things) certains characteristics of the immunological system

Lots of patogens has a m

Many pathogens have a mechanism to proliferate and infect and it is precisely to favor the conversion of D3OH to 1.25 so that the VDR is blocked and they are safeguarded and reproduced better ... the good functioning of this system, for example between mutated bacteria and bacteria with viral RNA

I see no point to get D3. If you have low D3 I see better use UVB narrowband, sunbathes, or even change the diet into food which has D3. But never use "D3 supplement"

what do you think?

If you think it's rubbish I'll understand xD sometimes I am a little bit hypochondriac


----------



## hardnfast

ElChapo said:


> Always remember to switch up the stimulus to the muscle. If you are doing bodybuilder split, switch it up to powerlifting style training and vice versa. There's a point where throwing drugs and calories at a plateau leads to diminishing returns.


 Absolutely! Thanks again for taking the time to respond.


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> Absolutely! Thanks again for taking the time to respond.


 Anytime brother


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> Look this photo
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I understood it's not neccesary to consume D3
> 
> The deficit of the vitamin D it's for agonism deficit of VDR, so it does have nothing to do with low levels of D3OH (which is what we try to messure in the test).
> 
> They are people who has levels of 5 in D3OH (when it's supposed we have to get over 30) and they have no problems about vit D deficit.
> 
> On the chart above, we can check that the important it's the level of 1,25
> 
> When we get overdoses of D3, they block the VDR, and that can generate inmunological problems.. the blocking of VDR causes (besides other things) certains characteristics of the immunological system
> 
> Lots of patogens has a m
> 
> Many pathogens have a mechanism to proliferate and infect and it is precisely to favor the conversion of D3OH to 1.25 so that the VDR is blocked and they are safeguarded and reproduced better ... the good functioning of this system, for example between mutated bacteria and bacteria with viral RNA
> 
> I see no point to get D3. If you have low D3 I see better use UVB narrowband, sunbathes, or even change the diet into food which has D3. But never use "D3 supplement"
> 
> what do you think?
> 
> If you think it's rubbish I'll understand xD sometimes I am a little bit hypochondriac


 Nah, it's good to be skeptical, but going by research that shows an obvious and clinically signicant benefit to vitamin D supplementation, it just works.

There is a lot of quack BS out there so you gotta use some logic/critical thinking+your own experiences to decide what you will listen to.

Grant it, if you are getting enough, high quality sunlight, you should be okay. Most people do not, and those with darker complexions have more issues with getting enough vitamin D through sun exposure.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

1. On a cut is there any requirement to run T4 along side T3 due to the fact T3 shuts down T4 production?

2. Tren vs Mast - both 19 nors of course however dose mast tend to NOT affect cholesterol as harshly and as quickly as Tren or is it much the same across the board with 19 nors?

Cheers pal!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1. On a cut is there any requirement to run T4 along side T3 due to the fact T3 shuts down T4 production?
> 
> 2. Tren vs Mast - both 19 nors of course however dose mast tend to NOT affect cholesterol as harshly and as quickly as Tren or is it much the same across the board with 19 nors?
> 
> Cheers pal!


 No real need in terms of metabolism, T3 is what stimulates the fat loss. T4 is needed for things like hair health and brain function and certain tissues do best when converting T4 to T3 directly versus getting straight T3 from the blood. If you are cutting then you don't NEED it, but for replacement/long term, i recommend both hormones.

Masteron is a DHT-derivative like winstrol and anavar.

Tren and winstrol are two of the harshest on lipid profiles. Masteron is more mild.

Don't worry too much about sub-optimal cholesterol as long as you are limiting the time and keeping all other health parameters in check, you will be fine. You can get away with more than you think, but you still want to be smart about it.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> No real need in terms of metabolism, T3 is what stimulates the fat loss. T4 is needed for things like hair health and brain function and certain tissues do best when converting T4 to T3 directly versus getting straight T3 from the blood. If you are cutting then you don't NEED it, but for replacement/long term, i recommend both hormones.
> 
> Masteron is a DHT-derivative like winstrol and anavar.
> 
> Tren and winstrol are two of the harshest on lipid profiles. Masteron is more mild.
> 
> Don't worry too much about sub-optimal cholesterol as long as you are limiting the time and keeping all other health parameters in check, you will be fine. You can get away with more than you think, but you still want to be smart about it.


 Thanks what supps for cholesterol support during and after Tren would you recommend. Not sure if I'm missing any of great deal in terms of effectiveness but currently use:

Coq10 @ 400mg ed

Uubiquinol at around 300mg ed

EPA DHA from omega 3 at around 5gs ed

6g plant stanols

1g citrus bergamot split into 2 doses

Prob eating around 2 to 300g of oatmeal a day.

I Have niacin but don't wish to use it at present due to flushing which is something I can't really take at work as I turn into a beet root and look like an alcoholic! Furthermore it hit my liver petty bad going by my results while using it.

I Have red yeast rice however later found it don't contain th ingredient that lowers cholesterol!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks what supps for cholesterol support during and after Tren would you recommend. Not sure if I'm missing any of great deal in terms of effectiveness but currently use:
> 
> Coq10 @ 400mg ed
> 
> Uubiquinol at around 300mg ed
> 
> EPA DHA from omega 3 at around 5gs ed
> 
> 6g plant stanols
> 
> 1g citrus bergamot split into 2 doses
> 
> Prob eating around 2 to 300g of oatmeal a day.
> 
> I Have niacin but don't wish to use it at present due to flushing which is something I can't really take at work as I turn into a beet root and look like an alcoholic! Furthermore it hit my liver petty bad going by my results while using it.
> 
> I Have red yeast rice however later found it don't contain th ingredient that lowers cholesterol!


 Coq10 and omega 3's are good.

Cardio+cialis are very effective.

Keep blood pressure at 130/80 maximum for optimal protection. If it's higher, limit how long you stay there.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Coq10 and omega 3's are good.
> 
> Cardio+cialis are very effective.
> 
> Keep blood pressure at 130/80 maximum for optimal protection. If it's higher, limit how long you stay there.


 Yes I see you said about cialis many times, so this actually helps with keeping lipids in check?

My BP is always 120/60 +/-5/5. Rested heart rate is usually 60bpm or there abouts.

When I was on Tren I was cutting and doing a lot of cardiovascular, BP was even lower.

FYI my last Tren e pin was 4 weeks ago and now on around 600mg test e only. On test e only my lipids have always been good even after 6 months or so blasting this AAS only. Getting a blood panel Done next week so hope to see a good improvement since bloods 3 weeks ago.


----------



## Bull Terrier

Can you get away with a low dose of T3 (something like 25mg per day) when NOT using AAS, without losing precious muscle mass?

Just to keep metabolism ticking over whilst cutting hard.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Yes I see you said about cialis many times, so this actually helps with keeping lipids in check?
> 
> My BP is always 120/60 +/-5/5. Rested heart rate is usually 60bpm or there abouts.
> 
> When I was on Tren I was cutting and doing a lot of cardiovascular, BP was even lower.
> 
> FYI my last Tren e pin was 4 weeks ago and now on around 600mg test e only. On test e only my lipids have always been good even after 6 months or so blasting this AAS only. Getting a blood panel Done next week so hope to see a good improvement since bloods 3 weeks ago.


 Not lipids, but more importantly endothelial elasticity and inflammation. The only reason lipids damage the blood vessels is due to inflammation and stiffening of the arteries. We are aiming directly at the problem. Cholesterol is not the enemy. Suboptimal lipid profile+inflammation+high blood pressure = Heart disease.

Cholesterol tries to repair the damage endothelium by plugging the damage like a bandaid, eventually cholesterol builds up around the arteries and calcifies because the inflammation is still there. This causes the arteries to get stiff and narrow, so less circulation gets to the major organs and the brain. This can also cause high BP since the blood vessels are no longer flexible. When these calcifications break off from the artery wall and reach the heart, they cause a heart attack. Heart health is not as simple as "good cholesterol/bad cholesterol" but they are part of the equation.

Your vitals are look awesome, good work. keep them that way.

I also find that keeping cardiovascular conditioning up while running tren helps a lot in controlling BP and heart rate. My BP and HR stay normal on tren as long as i keep training my heart and the dose isn't crazy.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> Can you get away with a low dose of T3 (something like 25mg per day) when NOT using AAS, without losing precious muscle mass?
> 
> Just to keep metabolism ticking over whilst cutting hard.


 Yes, your body naturally makes 25-32 mcg per day on average. 25 mcg is a replacement dosage.

To ensure lean tissue retention during cut, maintain training intensity and minimum 1 g of protein per lbs of LBM. Lose a maximum of 1-2 lbs per week depending on how lean you are. Those over 18% can get away with losing 2 lbs per week, 13-15% 1.3-1.5 lbs, 10-12% 1 lbs, <9% .75 lbs, <7% .5 lbs per week.

This is assuming you are not taking AAS and want to retain as much strength and muscle as possible. You get away with more if you are taking AAS.


----------



## richardrahl

@ElChapo you could probably move over here and (anonymity aside) never buy a beer again in your life just from this thread. :lol:

Top bloke.


----------



## ElChapo

richardrahl said:


> @ElChapo you could probably move over here and (anonymity aside) never buy a beer again in your life just from this thread. :lol:
> 
> Top bloke.


 You guys have been great. It's been a pleasure. Great questions all around.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo itchy scalp and flaky when on cycle. What's the cause and/or solution? Seems to happen when Totsl aas goes over 500mg for me. Ai often made skin more dry, when I stop it doesn't clear my scalp.

Cheers. Stewart


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo itchy scalp and flaky when on cycle. What's the cause and/or solution? Seems to happen when Totsl aas goes over 500mg for me. Ai often made skin more dry, when I stop it doesn't clear my scalp.
> 
> Cheers. Stewart


 Most likey inflammation mediated by the androgens. Try 2% nizoral shampoo on it. Leave in 5 minutes in the shower then rinse, x 2 per week- daily.

Nizoral is an anti-androgen, anti-fungal and anti-inflammatory. Hormones can changes the Ph and micro environment on the skin. Nothing clears up my dandruff better.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo Im interested in trying Boldenon/EQ at some point but ive read storys of how it increases RBC and HTC and BP.

Is it worse than nandralone as I get on fine with that ?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo Im interested in trying Boldenon/EQ at some point but ive read storys of how it increases RBC and HTC and BP.
> 
> Is it worse than nandralone as I get on fine with that ?


 If you want to take the risk, just donate blood on cycle or get lab work.

There is no actual scientific evidence that EQ increases hematocrit though. This effect is seen with most androgens to varying degrees and is highly dependent on genetics response. I have seen guys have trouble controlling hematocrit and RBC on 150 mg of testosterone. Other guys are blasting grams and they stay at acceptable levels.

It's ridiculous, but it goes to show how invidual response affects everything we do. I recommend experimentation and lab work to find out what works for you. I would love to see your results.

TIP: Make sure you are hydrated when getting HCT tested as this can throw off the results. Same thing when testing kidney function.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> If you want to take the risk, just donate blood on cycle or get lab work.
> 
> There is no actual scientific evidence that EQ increases hematocrit though. This effect is seen with most androgens to varying degrees and is highly dependent on genetics response. I have seen guys have trouble controlling hematocrit and RBC on 150 mg of testosterone. Other guys are blasting grams and they stay at acceptable levels.
> 
> It's ridiculous, but it goes to show how invidual response affects everything we do. I recommend experimentation and lab work to find out what works for you. I would love to see your results.
> 
> TIP: Make sure you are hydrated when getting HCT tested as this can throw off the results. Same thing when testing kidney function.


 Thank you for the input I will likely test it on say 500mg pw.

About the hydration for HCT I took my test first thing this morning before food or water it was the sports hormone test I think it covers just about everything.

Should I have eaten and drank first or maybe just drank ?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Thank you for the input I will likely test it on say 500mg pw.
> 
> About the hydration for HCT I took my test first thing this morning before food or water it was the sports hormone test I think it covers just about everything.
> 
> Should I have eaten and drank first or maybe just drank ?


 If you peed that morning after waking up before the test, how yellow was your urine? That is a good marker of hydration status.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> If you peed that morning after waking up before the test, how yellow was your urine? That is a good marker of hydration status.


 Light straw colour


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Light straw colour


 You were well-hydrated then.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> You were well-hydrated then.


 Cool thank you


----------



## Pancake'

Wider the grip, the more the lats are involved, when performing pull ups?

Why do you suggest keeping ratios of compounds 1:1 e.g 500mg Test + 500mg Deca, I always thought running same ratios, if you didn't agree with compound(s) it would increase likelihood of sides?

I haven't used anything likes of Creatine or Glutamine in a long time. I think most supps are b.s, but just trying to bust through a plateau at the moment. talking natural supps 5g creatine mono + 7.5mg L Glutamine worthless addition?

Should I be concerned consuming 100 - 160g of sugar per day?

Thoughts on BCAA? especially if training fasted, consuming them intra workout.


----------



## G-man99

Winny - split dose am/pm?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Wider the grip, the more the lats are involved, when performing pull ups?
> 
> Why do you suggest keeping ratios of compounds 1:1 e.g 500mg Test + 500mg Deca, I always thought running same ratios, if you didn't agree with compound(s) it would increase likelihood of sides?
> 
> I haven't used anything likes of Creatine or Glutamine in a long time. I think most supps are b.s, but just trying to bust through a plateau at the moment. talking natural supps 5g creatine mono + 7.5mg L Glutamine worthless addition?
> 
> Should I be concerned consuming 100 - 160g of sugar per day?
> 
> Thoughts on BCAA? especially if training fasted, consuming them intra workout.


 No, excessive grip width will just increase risk of injury. If you want to hit the lats more, add more weight. This will force more fibers to fire and increase growth and strength.

Ratios will depend on goals, preference and sensitivity to compounds. Lower test for cutting, usually 300 mg per week where the fat loss effect and effect on IGF starts to peak, this will limit water and need for E2 control. It's always going to depend.

Glutamine is bullshit. Creatine might still help you break a plateau.

Sugar is fine, it is consuming excess sugar and calories that make people sick and diseased. All things in moderation.

BCAA is okay, protein will have the same effect on recovery and protein synthesis. BCAA can have an anti fatigue effect by inhibiting uptake of the amino acid tryptophan in the brain. This signals fatigue to the body via serotonin. It's an alright supplement, nothing special.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Winny - split dose am/pm?


 Once daily.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Once daily.


 If I remember right you said you or your partner used SG and/or TM gear?

There no decent stuff in the US?


----------



## Sphinkter

Thoughts on intra workout nutrition? Ie EAAs/peptopro with carb like dextrose or cyclic dextrin?


----------



## G-man99

If taking T3 on an empty stomach first thing, when would be the best time to take clen dose?


----------



## Tricky

Just out of interest what a daily diet for yourself look like?

What do you find optimal for growth

carb

fat

protein

do you think carb cycling is the best way or should I not be too worried as long as I hit 300kcals over maitnence and get enough protein? Is 1g per 1lb too much? I don't know my LBM so just going if body weight


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> No test would enhance fertility more, i would run test but only if you were starting from scratch.
> 
> Basically, we need HCG/LH/FSH in the blood at high levels to wake up and restart production of sperm.
> 
> We accomplish this by dropping test which will bring LH/FSH up high, adding HCG, another gonadotropin with mimetic effects to LH/FSH, and adding clomiphene which will further stimulate gonadotropin production in pituitary. 3-6 months you will start seeing nice recovery, if you are lucky you will get her pregnant quick and be done with this as it is not optimal for health/wellbeing, pure for fertility.


 Would vitamin d also help here as well?

Its said that AAS users are more likely to conceive girls on cycle or just coming off, is there any scientific backing to this?


----------



## Zeal

Hi glad to hve this thread here

what are your thoughts on follistatin 344 does it really work?

and does it need to be spot injection or its the same as other peptides.

@El Chapo @ghost.recon

what are your insight in this

currently on 600mg sus and 500mg eq 1st week.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> If I remember right you said you or your partner used SG and/or TM gear?
> 
> There no decent stuff in the US?


 I produce my own AAS. My SO uses TM/SG.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> Thoughts on intra workout nutrition? Ie EAAs/peptopro with carb like dextrose or cyclic dextrin?


 Useless, although some studies show increased performance when consuming some carbs. I don't think it's necessary.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> If taking T3 on an empty stomach first thing, when would be the best time to take clen dose?


 T3 can be taken with food or at any time. T4 must be taken on an empty stomach for maximum absorption.

You can take clen and T3 together.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Just out of interest what a daily diet for yourself look like?
> 
> What do you find optimal for growth
> 
> carb
> 
> fat
> 
> protein
> 
> do you think carb cycling is the best way or should I not be too worried as long as I hit 300kcals over maitnence and get enough protein? Is 1g per 1lb too much? I don't know my LBM so just going if body weight


 I favor high carbs/low fat, but that's mostly a matter of preference. Some people do well on keto style diets.

For bulking, i always recommend high carbs/enough protein for growth/minimal fat. In a caloric surplus, you want to keep fat as low as possible as it will be stored very easily. After you get enough protein, carbs will be the fuel for muscle growth.

What is going to matter the most is hitting your caloric surplus consistently and increasing your training intensity as often as possible. Increased intensity via weight or reps is the best way to encourage muscle growth and adaptation. 1 g per 1 lbs is overkill for bulking. You need LESS protein when bulking, not more.

0.80 protein g per lbs of LBM (bulk/refeed)

1-1.4 protein g per lbs of LBM (cut) (You can get away with less on AAS) \

Extra protein is beneficial on a cut for satiety purposes (keeping your appetite satisfied for longer so you can adhere to your diet)


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> Would vitamin d also help here as well?
> 
> Its said that AAS users are more likely to conceive girls on cycle or just coming off, is there any scientific backing to this?


 Yes, optimal vitamin D levels are linked to enhance sperm quality.

Actually, studies show men and women with high testosterone are more likely to father son's and this is why first born children tend to be son's because women have them at younger age's when their testosterone is highest. These are VERY loose correlations though, the difference is neglible.

A child's sex is determined by sperm that has XX or XY, there is no real physiological mechanism by which taking AAS could affect that i am aware of.


----------



## ElChapo

Zeal said:


> Hi glad to hve this thread here
> 
> what are your thoughts on follistatin 344 does it really work?
> 
> and does it need to be spot injection or its the same as other peptides.
> 
> @El Chapo @ghost.recon
> 
> what are your insight in this
> 
> currently on 600mg sus and 500mg eq 1st week.


 Seems like bullshit to be honest, remember, large/impressive/amazing/strong physique were built on nothing but test/deca/dbol. Genetics, training, diet are your bread and butter.

Sus/EQ Nice simple cycle. Train and eat right, you will grow.


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> T3 can be taken with food or at any time. T4 must be taken on an empty stomach for maximum absorption.
> 
> You can take clen and T3 together.


 Muchas gracias amigo :thumbup1:


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Muchas gracias amigo :thumbup1:


 Anytime brother.

You'd be surprised. Most doctors don't know/don't tell their patients to take T4 away from food. It's is embarrassing to be honest.


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> Anytime brother.
> 
> You'd be surprised. Most doctors don't know/don't tell their patients to take T4 away from food. It's is embarrassing to be honest.


 My wife is prescribed T4 and was never told this either.

I told her to research it herself and found that it needed to be taken on an empty stomach for full absorption.

I'd just presumed T3 was the same and it's always been bandied around here too.

I'm in the habit of taking it first thing upon waking and trying to hold off an hour before eating anyway to try and prolong any fat burning.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> My wife is prescribed T4 and was never told this either.
> 
> I told her to research it herself and found that it needed to be taken on an empty stomach for full absorption.
> 
> I'd just presumed T3 was the same and it's always been bandied around here too.
> 
> I'm in the habit of taking it first thing upon waking and trying to hold off an hour before eating anyway to try and prolong any fat burning.


 Yeah, patient teaching is a very important and neglected part of medicine. I'm glad you guys know about the T4.

T3 levels will peak at 2 hours after your dose. My Free T3 levels were 3-4 times the top of the range on 50 mcg per day, bloods drawn 2 hours later. My T4 was completely shutdown.


----------



## Jordan08

After reading this thread, one would feel that he is not ready to take AAS yet. There is so much more than just pinning different compounds.

Thanks for sharing your expertise.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Yes, optimal vitamin D levels are linked to enhance sperm quality.
> 
> Actually, studies show men and women with high testosterone are more likely to father son's and this is why first born children tend to be son's because women have them at younger age's when their testosterone is highest. These are VERY loose correlations though, the difference is neglible.
> 
> A child's sex is determined by sperm that has XX or XY, there is no real physiological mechanism by which taking AAS could affect that i am aware of.


 I had a son when I had high testosterone! And you can tell too, with his temper!


----------



## Slagface

What is your thoughts on vegan plant based diets and protein sources being superior to growth, recovery and overall health?

Also is it true if you bang her standing up shes less likely to get pregnant?


----------



## 31205

Slagface said:


> What is your thoughts on vegan plant based diets and protein sources being superior to growth, recovery and overall health?
> 
> Also is it true if you bang her standing up shes less likely to get pregnant?


 Shite!


----------



## Rockstar61811

Thank you Elchapo. By which mechanism does high estrogen in men (while on TRT for example) cause heart issues? Is it do to the hormone directly or secondary factors? Thank you


----------



## dbol Kid

Some great info here chaps, need to get my notepad out and go through all the posts again lol


----------



## Sphinkter

Jatin Bhatia said:


> After reading this thread, one would feel that he is not ready to take AAS yet. There is so much more than just pinning different compounds.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your expertise.


 Mate you'll never know everything. As long as you know enough about whatever it is you're taking and how to do it safely then there is no reason against it imo.


----------



## Jordan08

@ElChapo, You seem to be very impressed by curcumin. I had this in my supplement regime few year ago. IIRC, i was using it @800mg with Milk. How do you rate it for joint health as compare to Glucosamine and Cissus?. If it's better, what should be the dosage for joint health?


----------



## Jordan08

Sphinkter said:


> Mate you'll never know everything. As long as you know enough about whatever it is you're taking and how to do it safely then there is no reason against it imo.


 I should agree here. I guess my skeptical nature always push me to know everything before making any decision. I know it is not necessary(Also not possible) and sometimes it just result in a delay of decision making nothing less. But, it's inbuilt..lol. You can make an idea from that i have been thinking of jumping onto PED's from three years..lol


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo, first thank you for your valuable contribution.

I'm a huge fan of Winstrol and Tren as well. I like long blasts....

Strictly speaking of liver and kidneys health, what's the longest you'd run 50mg oral Winstrol/day and 600mg Tren Enanthate/week alongside 1000mg of legit TUDCA?

Is Tren even actually hepato/nephrotoxic in your experience (Creatinine/eGFR/Cystatin-C, albuminuria)?

Do your ALT/GGT stay within the normal range (long term) with oral stanozolol + TUDCA?

Thank you, very appreciated.


----------



## Quackerz

@ElChapo

@ghost.recon

Have just seen the doctor to discuss my recent blood report, have informed her I have been getting unusually hot recently. My thyroxine is mid range, only thing that's out is my hematocrit which is sitting just out of range at 51 but apparently this is not an issue. Is she correct in stating this?


----------



## S123

@ElChapo how much muscle tissue could one potentially gain per week on 600mg test, 600mg tren with 4iu of GH with 15iu fast acting slin pre workout and 15iu fast acting slin post workout? Would it be much less than without the slin and just gh?


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Not lipids, but more importantly endothelial elasticity and inflammation. The only reason lipids damage the blood vessels is due to inflammation and stiffening of the arteries. We are aiming directly at the problem. Cholesterol is not the enemy. Suboptimal lipid profile+inflammation+high blood pressure = Heart disease.
> 
> Cholesterol tries to repair the damage endothelium by plugging the damage like a bandaid, eventually cholesterol builds up around the arteries and calcifies because the inflammation is still there. This causes the arteries to get stiff and narrow, so less circulation gets to the major organs and the brain. This can also cause high BP since the blood vessels are no longer flexible. When these calcifications break off from the artery wall and reach the heart, they cause a heart attack. Heart health is not as simple as "good cholesterol/bad cholesterol" but they are part of the equation.
> 
> Your vitals are look awesome, good work. keep them that way.
> 
> I also find that keeping cardiovascular conditioning up while running tren helps a lot in controlling BP and heart rate. My BP and HR stay normal on tren as long as i keep training my heart and the dose isn't crazy.


 This is very interesting thanks for taking the time to write up such a comprehensive response.

Also what are your views on AAS enlarging the heart and thinning the walls (not enlarged heart what a typical athlete would have)?

Also the effects of prolonged use they may have on Prostate?

Your views on Testosterone and other AAS on collegen synthesis and how prolonged use can increase chances of ligament injurys and increase the time taken to heal?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Useless, although some studies show increased performance when consuming some carbs. I don't think it's necessary.


 I know Milos & many other pro's, ex pro's advocate pre & intra work out supplementation.

I'm wondering it's an agenda as most of them have their own supplement lines !!


----------



## GeordieOak70

Nandralone decanoate and durabolin is it right durabolin is essentially NPP ? @ElChapo


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo Last video from enhanceathlete where Coach trevor talk about trenbolone. He said tren is not a must to go for many bodybuilders; you haven't to run it to bring an awesome physique, some guys never used it in 20 years career, some have to use it to make the difference. He said there are much more safer drugs to use to build similar physique without it. Tren has an impact on the brain etc...

on bodymaxing.com there is an article where an old pro talk about tren and said today every one use tren like it was a game changer but for some it just turn their physique into a stringshape. He said many bodybuilder of 90's never used it. Just plenty of deca, test, primo. Some guys used tren just for prep.
What's your opinion about that ?

Do you think we can build an awesome physique witout then, so what's the best alternative/stack ? Lot of guys talk about primo, but imho primo is useless and its 90% fake. Do you tink deca is safer than tren ? there are some studies that show deca kill blood vesseels 11x more than test but I think it valaible for many aas no ? https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-news/nandrolone-damages-blood-vessels-11x-testosterone/

thanks a lot


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> After reading this thread, one would feel that he is not ready to take AAS yet. There is so much more than just pinning different compounds.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your expertise.


 Glad you have found the information useful


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> I had a son when I had high testosterone! And you can tell too, with his temper!


 Haha, there you go.


----------



## ElChapo

Slagface said:


> What is your thoughts on vegan plant based diets and protein sources being superior to growth, recovery and overall health?
> 
> Also is it true if you bang her standing up shes less likely to get pregnant?


 It can work, but these diets are very deficient in tons of nutrients including creatine, zinc, Vitamin Bs, etc.

By excluding an entire category that includes many food groups, you are depriving yourself of many important things.

We evolved eating meat and we are not herbivores contrary to what any vegan will try to tell you. The issue here is that many of the vitamins and minerals and nutrients in plant based foods are not very bioavailable to humans. Our GI tract has many issues absorbing many plant based minerals. Omega 3s from plants are also less effective.

Studies showed that creatine supplementation only enhanced cognitive function in vegans because they were all deficient in creatine. You need to eat meat for optimal health, period.

You can get away with it with heavy supplementation and you can build muscle, but why would you want to? I am a HUGE animal lover, being vegan won't make a difference, they will still slaughter animals and mistreat them. It doesn't make a difference to anyone but you, a negative one.

A lot of people also have the misconception that meat is some toxic crap. Most of the vegetables they are eating are covered in microscopic parasites, tons of pesticides and heavy metals.


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> Thank you Elchapo. By which mechanism does high estrogen in men (while on TRT for example) cause heart issues? Is it do to the hormone directly or secondary factors? Thank you


 High E2 sensitizes the tissues to andrealine/noradrenaline, increasing the risk of spasm in the intra-arterial channels and making it harder for the smooth muscle to relax/dilate. High E2 will also increase clotting factors and is linked to higher HCT, increasing the risk of blood clots. Blood clots = Heart attack.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @ElChapo, You seem to be very impressed by curcumin. I had this in my supplement regime few year ago. IIRC, i was using it @800mg with Milk. How do you rate it for joint health as compare to Glucosamine and Cissus?. If it's better, what should be the dosage for joint health?


 *Curcumin, dosed at 1,000mg MERIVA (curcumin bound to phosphatidylcholine) taken in two divided dosages of 500mg, was safe and effective over a period of 8 months in alleviating clinical and biochemical symptoms of osteoarthritis in a population of middle-aged (43+/-2) persons with osteoarthritis.

Reductions were noted in IL-6 (27%), IL-1b (65%), and cell adhesion factors.*

*200mg of MERIVA, taken at 200mg daily, was able to reduce symptoms of osteoarthritis and joint pain as assessed by the WOMAC rating scale and improve physical performance.

C-Reactive Protein decreased only in the group with higher CRP at baseline, although to a very large degree (168 to 11.3mg/L)*

*2g/day of Curcumin extract has an effect equal to ibuprofen for treatment of knee osteoarthritis (J Altern Complement Med. 2009 Aug;15(8):891-7. doi: 10.1089/acm.2008.0186.)*

As you can see, the positive benefit on joint issues is coming from a significant reduction in inflammation. You could combine it with glucosamine to attack the problem with two different mechanisms of action.

If you are taking curcumin you NEED to take it with piperine unless it's a special form that is more bioavailable. Without piperine, absorption will be minimal. Always look up what drugs piperine affects in terms of absorption because it can increase absorption of viagra/cialis, oral AAS, nolvadex, etc.

I am not into popping a million pills that probably aren't doing s**t, so this recommendation does not come lightly. Curcumin+Piperine/Pycnogenol are supplements that have CLINICAL potency. Backed by tons of research.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> ElChapo, first thank you for your valuable contribution.
> 
> I'm a huge fan of Winstrol and Tren as well. I like long blasts....
> 
> Strictly speaking of liver and kidneys health, what's the longest you'd run 50mg oral Winstrol/day and 600mg Tren Enanthate/week alongside 1000mg of legit TUDCA?
> 
> Is Tren even actually hepato/nephrotoxic in your experience (Creatinine/eGFR/Cystatin-C, albuminuria)?
> 
> Do your ALT/GGT stay within the normal range (long term) with oral stanozolol + TUDCA?
> 
> Thank you, very appreciated.


 12-16 weeks. Tren has elevated liver enzymes slightly for me. Exercise and even testosterone can do this to some people. Extremely high doses of tren and other steroids can lead to cysts in the liver, very scary s**t, but very rare. Something to keep an eye out for when pounding down tons of AAS.

*The effect of TUDCA on liver serum enzymes was evident after 1 month and reached a maximum effect after 3 months, when TUDCA** had significantly lowered AST (−44%), ALT (−49%), and GGT (−38%)*

I never bothered checking liver functions while on winstrol, but anecdotally, most people find that it keeps their enzymes lower than they would be or brings them back down to normal limits. Liver enzymes in the 100s will be fine. I have seen patient's with enzymes in the 2,000s and they were okay. It was not my patient so i did not know the cause, i still wonder to this day. (21 year old obese female)


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> @ghost.recon
> 
> Have just seen the doctor to discuss my recent blood report, have informed her I have been getting unusually hot recently. My thyroxine is mid range, only thing that's out is my hematocrit which is sitting just out of range at 51 but apparently this is not an issue. Is she correct in stating this?


 What is your average oral temp? Hormonal changes can cause increase in body temp, or if you are eating more than usual, heavier than usual, etc.

You need to look at free T3 to see true thyroid activity. TSH and T4 are like looking at LH and androstenedione(testosterone precursor) instead of the active hormones Free T3 and total/free testosterone.

Most of the medical community is BEHIND. Would you ever look at LH and completely ignore total/free testosterone to diagnose hypogonadism?


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> 12-16 weeks. Tren has elevated liver enzymes slightly for me.


 Please define -slightly-. Dose and duration of tren? Were you using TUDCA?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo how much muscle tissue could one potentially gain per week on 600mg test, 600mg tren with 4iu of GH with 15iu fast acting slin pre workout and 15iu fast acting slin post workout? Would it be much less than without the slin and just gh?


 Yes, slin/GH are very strong, IF your nutrition is up to par. It's a waste if you aren't eating right to be honest. All it does is make your muscles suck in more nutrients, while increasing IGF through GH which means more muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> This is very interesting thanks for taking the time to write up such a comprehensive response.
> 
> Also what are your views on AAS enlarging the heart and thinning the walls (not enlarged heart what a typical athlete would have)?
> 
> Also the effects of prolonged use they may have on Prostate?
> 
> Your views on Testosterone and other AAS on collegen synthesis and how prolonged use can increase chances of ligament injurys and increase the time taken to heal?


 Dangers of the myocardial hypertrophy are overstated, the issue is the loss of ventricular function when the major arteries start to get too stiff and lose their efficiency. This is part of the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and CAD. I highly recommend anyone, especially those on AAS to do regular cardiovascular exercise. It IS underrated and will not negatively affect your gains.

Many times prostate will shrink down a bit after discontinuing AAS. Many of the acute symptoms on cycle come from inflammation of the prostate. Cialis works great for relieving these symptoms but yes increase AAS and IGF-1 levels are the perfect environment for prostate growth. The severity of long-term effects will come down to genetic predisposition to prostate pathologies like BPH and cancer, the drugs used, etc.

Testosterone/collagen: Nothing to worry about. People don't know how to read/analyze studies and start spreading information that is irrelevant. Many study designs are flawed, done in animals with different body system than ours, or done in vitro in a petri dish. All factors must be taken into account when taking what a study relevant data. Put it this way, if this were an issue, all these top powerlifters running grams of test would be snapping their s**t up on every rep.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> I know Milos & many other pro's, ex pro's advocate pre & intra work out supplementation.
> 
> I'm wondering it's an agenda as most of them have their own supplement lines !!


 Agenda or they think it works for them. Neither makes it true.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Nandralone decanoate and durabolin is it right durabolin is essentially NPP ? @ElChapo


 Yes, nandrolone is nandrolone.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo Last video from enhanceathlete where Coach trevor talk about trenbolone. He said tren is not a must to go for many bodybuilders; you haven't to run it to bring an awesome physique, some guys never used it in 20 years career, some have to use it to make the difference. He said there are much more safer drugs to use to build similar physique without it. Tren has an impact on the brain etc...
> 
> on bodymaxing.com there is an article where an old pro talk about tren and said today every one use tren like it was a game changer but for some it just turn their physique into a stringshape. He said many bodybuilder of 90's never used it. Just plenty of deca, test, primo. Some guys used tren just for prep.
> What's your opinion about that ?
> 
> Do you think we can build an awesome physique witout then, so what's the best alternative/stack ? Lot of guys talk about primo, but imho primo is useless and its 90% fake. Do you tink deca is safer than tren ? there are some studies that show deca kill blood vesseels 11x more than test but I think it valaible for many aas no ? https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-news/nandrolone-damages-blood-vessels-11x-testosterone/
> 
> thanks a lot


 Of course, you don't need any specific AAS to build a great body.

A great physique means:

1. carrying good amount of muscle mass, this will be subjectively different for a female looking for man with underwear model physique versus an amateur bodybuilder aspiring for a pro card.

2. Low levels of body fat, and aesthetically pleasing proportions (small waist, big/broad shoulders, well developed chest, good biceps, six pack showing etc)

You don't need tren to do any of the above. Some people don't even respond to tren that well anyways. I will call it overrated because people underestimate how much their diet, training and genetics are part of the equation.

Primo is overrated stuff. Deca is safer than tren. Much less harsh and androgenic. Those studies don't mean much for living, breathing human beings. That's a petri dish study.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Seems like bullshit to be honest, remember, large/impressive/amazing/strong physique were built on nothing but test/deca/dbol. Genetics, training, diet are your bread and butter.
> 
> Sus/EQ Nice simple cycle. Train and eat right, you will grow.


 Since i know you @ElChapo and @ghost.recon i can say:

"large/impressive/amazing/strong physique were built on nothing but test/tren/w. Genetics, training, diet are your bread and butter."


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Since i know you @ElChapo i can say:
> 
> "large/impressive/amazing/strong physique were built on nothing but test/tren/w. Genetics, training, diet are your bread and butter."


 Lol

-@ghost.recon/ @ElChapo 15 Approved


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Dangers of the myocardial hypertrophy are overstated, the issue is the loss of ventricular function when the major arteries start to get too stiff and lose their efficiency. This is part of the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and CAD. I highly recommend anyone, especially those on AAS to do regular cardiovascular exercise. It IS underrated and will not negatively affect your gains.
> 
> Many times prostate will shrink down a bit after discontinuing AAS. Many of the acute symptoms on cycle come from inflammation of the prostate. Cialis works great for relieving these symptoms but yes increase AAS and IGF-1 levels are the perfect environment for prostate growth. The severity of long-term effects will come down to genetic predisposition to prostate pathologies like BPH and cancer, the drugs used, etc.
> 
> Testosterone/collagen: Nothing to worry about. People don't know how to read/analyze studies and start spreading information that is irrelevant. Many study designs are flawed, done in animals with different body system than ours, or done in vitro in a petri dish. All factors must be taken into account when taking what a study relevant data. Put it this way, if this were an issue, all these top powerlifters running grams of test would be snapping their s**t up on every rep.


 In terms of cardio I must admit, on cut I hammer it but when bulking I rarely do it I'm afraid to say, mainly because it means I will need to replenish these cals and because it's an extra 20 mins or so I need to add to my gym session. Furthermore I previously though doing cardio on AAS will make the heart grow which is bad which I appear to have got wrong. That said I think I need to change my priorities.

Would you say a 20 mins session 3 times a week is ample for heart health?

I Don't believe I have any Prostate issues Inc cancer related in my family. That said, of all the symptoms this is the one the worries me the most as I don't plan to get off AAS any time soon unless bloods or health dictates otherwise and like most other symptoms on AAS there is no easy way to prevent growth?

Cailis is expensive to run ED long term, when you say it will releave the symptoms do you mean releave them like a pain killer would a stomach ache but not fix the root cause?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> In terms of cardio I must admit, on cut I hammer it but when bulking I rarely do it I'm afraid to say, mainly because it means I will need to replenish these cals and because it's an extra 20 mins or so I need to add to my gym session. Furthermore I previously though doing cardio on AAS will make the heart grow which is bad which I appear to have got wrong. That said I think I need to change my priorities.
> 
> Would you say a 20 mins session 3 times a week is ample for heart health?
> 
> I Don't believe I have any Prostate issues Inc cancer related in my family. That said, of all the symptoms this is the one the worries me the most as I don't plan to get off AAS any time soon unless bloods or health dictates otherwise and like most other symptoms on AAS there is no easy way to prevent growth?
> 
> Cailis is expensive to run ED long term, when you say it will releave the symptoms do you mean releave them like a pain killer would a stomach ache but not fix the root cause?


 It will cause heart growth in susceptible individuals, time on, type of AAS, etc. Nothing to worry about as long as vascular health is in check. It's the stiffening that comes with the growth that is dangerous. It becomes non-functional growth. If you are doing cardio and have healthy blood vessels you will be fine.

20 mins x 3 per week is perfect. Having good cardiovascular fitness will increase your work capacity and improve your workout recovery and endurance during your training. More blood to muscles = more oxygen, nutrients, etc. Also increased clearance of metabolic by products like lactic acid = faster recovery.

Just make sure you take breaks with TRT/cruise doses and stay generally healthy. There are worse things you can be doing to your health such as smoking, being sedentary, overweight, etc. Just enjoy your life and practice moderation.

Yes, it will help you pee. It MIGHT reduce inflammation in the prostate as well. You can run 20 mg cials x 2-3 per week and get a clinically significant effect. Indian pharma is usually effective and cheap.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

d Bol best oral for mass? And could you gain well just on test good diet and training etc


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> It will cause heart growth in susceptible individuals, time on, type of AAS, etc. Nothing to worry about as long as vascular health is in check. It's the stiffening that comes with the growth that is dangerous. It becomes non-functional growth. If you are doing cardio and have healthy blood vessels you will be fine.
> 
> 20 mins x 3 per week is perfect. Having good cardiovascular fitness will increase your work capacity and improve your workout recovery and endurance during your training. More blood to muscles = more oxygen, nutrients, etc. Also increased clearance of metabolic by products like lactic acid = faster recovery.
> 
> Just make sure you take breaks with TRT/cruise doses and stay generally healthy. There are worse things you can be doing to your health such as smoking, being sedentary, overweight, etc. Just enjoy your life and practice moderation.
> 
> Yes, it will help you pee. It MIGHT reduce inflammation in the prostate as well. You can run 20 mg cials x 2-3 per week and get a clinically significant effect. Indian pharma is usually effective and cheap.


 Thanks for this!

Sorry one last question re Prostate - from what you are saying about cialis and how it will help with symptoms. Is it certain that doses of 500mg or more testosterone a week will enlarge the Prostate and cause you to need to urinate more frequently than you would Off cycle?

To be honest I usually have to pee 2 or 3 times in the evening before I go bed (8pm to 11pm). Bear in mind I drink a lot of water and coffee during the day - however when I'm asleep I usually don't need to get up to pee, but if I do it usually won't be more than once if I do need to get up during the night. Not sure how "normal" that pattern is in terms of Prostate health...


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> Sorry one last question re Prostate - from what you are saying about cialis and how it will help with symptoms. Is it certain that doses of 500mg or more testosterone a week will enlarge the Prostate and cause you to need to urinate more frequently than you would Off cycle?
> 
> To be honest I usually have to pee 2 or 3 times in the evening before I go bed (8pm to 11pm). Bear in mind I drink a lot of water and coffee during the day - however when I'm asleep I usually don't need to get up to pee, but if I do it usually won't be more than once if I do need to get up during the night. Not sure how "normal" that pattern is in terms of Prostate health...


 Nothing in life is certain. There are too many variables to even begin to answer that question. Grant it, supraphysiological testosterone (anything over 300 mg per week) is going to increase E2, DHT to higher levels than normal. E2 increases epithelial prostate growth(skin) and DHT increases glandular prostate growth(organ).

x 2-3 per night is definitely cause for concern during the night. If it's during waking hours and you are drinking a lot of fluids, you might be okay. I found issues myself with frequent urination during the night when running masteron at high doses which went away after discontinuing the hormone.

Getting up more than once a night to urinate, i would be concerned.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> d Bol best oral for mass? And could you gain well just on test good diet and training etc


 Yeah, for "mass". Water, gyno tissue, etc. We don't want "mass". We want high quality, lean , muscle growth. Water is just something you will drop when you d/c the drug.

I am not saying don't use Dbol. Some people love this androgen and get great strength gains and mood on it. Personally, winstrol is better for strength and mass for me without risking gyno, putting on tons of water/moon face, etc. I don't have to worry about controlling E2 with winstrol. This is just my opinion and observation.

I know people with amazing physiques who only run testosterone, people put too much mystique and magic behind specific AAS. A lot will come down to genetics, training and nutrition, i can't say it enough. Some people are just going too look like s**t.

Bostin Loyd has garbage genetics with a big blocky waist. It doesn't matter what or how much he takes, he won't be a top pro no matter what he does. Saying that, i respect his passion and heart for bodybuilding and people don't give him credit/take into account that he is 6'1", which is a harder frame to fill out being a taller guy.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Nothing in life is certain. There are too many variables to even begin to answer that question. Grant it, supraphysiological testosterone (anything over 300 mg per week) is going to increase E2, DHT to higher levels than normal. E2 increases epithelial prostate growth(skin) and DHT increases glandular prostate growth(organ).
> 
> x 2-3 per night is definitely cause for concern during the night. If it's during waking hours and you are drinking a lot of fluids, you might be okay. I found issues myself with frequent urination during the night when running masteron at high doses which went away after discontinuing the hormone.
> 
> Getting up more than once a night to urinate, i would be concerned.


 Sorry I may not have made myself clear, when I get in from work i may need to pee 2 to 3 times during the evening while I am awake, having dinner, watching TV etc before I go to bed. Bear in mind I drink a lot of water and coffee throughout the day.

When I go to bed and sleep I might be woken to get up once during the night to pee now and then but usually I sleep till morning without having to get up.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Sorry I may not have made myself clear, when I get in from work i may need to pee 2 to 3 times during the evening while I am awake, having dinner, watching TV etc before I go to bed. Bear in mind I drink a lot of water and coffee throughout the day.
> 
> When I go to bed and sleep I might be woken to get up once during the night to pee now and then but usually I sleep till morning without having to get up.


 Yeah, i read that part. I was just adding for those reading that x 2-3 per night is cause for concern in case they notice this symptom in themselves.

I believe you are okay. Make sure you keep E2 in normal ranges. Never go over 70 pg/mL.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, for "mass". Water, gyno tissue, etc. We don't want "mass". We want high quality, lean , muscle growth. Water is just something you will drop when you d/c the drug.
> 
> I am not saying don't use Dbol. Some people love this androgen and get great strength gains and mood on it. Personally, winstrol is better for strength and mass for me without risking gyno, putting on tons of water/moon face, etc. I don't have to worry about controlling E2 with winstrol. This is just my opinion and observation.
> 
> I know people with amazing physiques who only run testosterone, people put too much mystique and magic behind specific AAS. A lot will come down to genetics, training and nutrition, i can't say it enough. Some people are just going too look like s**t.
> 
> Bostin Loyd has garbage genetics with a big blocky waist. It doesn't matter what or how much he takes, he won't be a top pro no matter what he does. Saying that, i respect his passion and heart for bodybuilding and people don't give him credit/take into account that he is 6'1", which is a harder frame to fill out being a taller guy.


 Thanks mate will use winstrol I think for my kick starter


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo. @ghost.recon

Hypothetical scenario. You have one year to make the following transformation (see photos). You have to turn a normal man into a lean, more muscular, alpha looking, more masculinized man.

Transformation includes: increased muscle, decreased body fat, increased body hair, increased facial hair, decreased hair on head.

I know head hair, body and facial hair will be genetic, but lets say you have to do all you can to make the following transform over a year. How would do it? Which steroids and PEDs would you use for how long and at what doses? Let's take health and safety away from this and say you can do as you please without worrying about health.

From:









To:


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo. @ghost.recon
> 
> Hypothetical scenario. You have one year to make the following transformation (see photos). You have to turn a normal man into a lean, more muscular, alpha looking, more masculinized man.
> 
> Transformation includes: increased muscle, decreased body fat, increased body hair, increased facial hair, decreased hair on head.
> 
> I know head hair, body and facial hair will be genetic, but lets say you have to do all you can to make the follow transform over a year. How would do it? Which steroids and PEDs would you use for how long and at what doses? Let's take health and safety away from this and say you can do as you please without worrying about health.
> 
> From:
> 
> View attachment 142733
> 
> 
> To:
> 
> 
> View attachment 142734
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 142735


 1 gram test+AI , 1 gram tren, 1 gram winstrol per week+1 g tudca daily, 1 gram DHT or Mast ran through the whole 12 months with SLIN/GH @ 12 IU daily with slin post meal. Daily caloric surplus of 1,000 for 9 months, drop slin/GH and cut on 500 mg DNP/30 mg Yohimbine daily @ 30% caloric deficit for the last 3 months until 6-9% bodyfat.

12 months of gene expression on high dose AAS would have not only lead to massive increase in lean muscle but increased secondary sex characteristics like beard growth, chest hair, loss of baby fat in the face, etc. Like you said, this is 90% genetic. Some guys just don't grow beard hair and body hair much and many of the masculine traits you see in men are developed in the fetal enviroment where they are exposed to varying levels of DHT/ET/Testosterone.

High prenatal testosterone has been linked to elite athletic ability, assertiveness, facial masculinity and bigger adult penis size. You can measure your prenatal testosterone/E2 exposure by comparing the size of you index finger and ring finger. Smaller index finger than ring finger means higher Test/Lower E2 in the womb. The opposite means less test/more E2. Most women's fingers are the same length or longer ring fingers due to this prenatal exposure. Most men's fingers will have shorter index. This has been proven in many studies including ones done in humans and animals. They call it the finger digit ratio. Very fun party trick. More masculine ratios have been linked to bigger penises and more attractive faces in men.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> *Curcumin, dosed at 1,000mg MERIVA (curcumin bound to phosphatidylcholine) taken in two divided dosages of 500mg, was safe and effective over a period of 8 months in alleviating clinical and biochemical symptoms of osteoarthritis in a population of middle-aged (43+/-2) persons with osteoarthritis.
> 
> Reductions were noted in IL-6 (27%), IL-1b (65%), and cell adhesion factors.*
> 
> *200mg of MERIVA, taken at 200mg daily, was able to reduce symptoms of osteoarthritis and joint pain as assessed by the WOMAC rating scale and improve physical performance.
> 
> C-Reactive Protein decreased only in the group with higher CRP at baseline, although to a very large degree (168 to 11.3mg/L)*
> 
> *2g/day of Curcumin extract has an effect equal to ibuprofen for treatment of knee osteoarthritis (J Altern Complement Med. 2009 Aug;15(8):891-7. doi: 10.1089/acm.2008.0186.)*
> 
> As you can see, the positive benefit on joint issues is coming from a significant reduction in inflammation. You could combine it with glucosamine to attack the problem with two different mechanisms of action.
> 
> If you are taking curcumin you NEED to take it with piperine unless it's a special form that is more bioavailable. Without piperine, absorption will be minimal. Always look up what drugs piperine affects in terms of absorption because it can increase absorption of viagra/cialis, oral AAS, nolvadex, etc.
> 
> I am not into popping a million pills that probably aren't doing s**t, so this recommendation does not come lightly. Curcumin+Piperine/Pycnogenol are supplements that have CLINICAL potency. Backed by tons of research.


 Hi bud. Reading with great interest (so, a massive thank you).

Anyway... something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FFWYD8C ??


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Hi bud. Reading with great interest (so, a massive thank you).
> 
> Anyway... something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FFWYD8C ??


 Yeah, exactly. That looks great. German made products are also known for their exceptional quality. You can take 1-2 tabs per day, with a fatty meal for increased absorption.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, exactly. That looks great. German made products are also known for their exceptional quality. You can take 1-2 tabs per day, with a fatty meal for increased absorption.


 Grassy-ass.


----------



## AestheticManlet

Thought I'd throw in a question that's been bugging me. I've been on for a little while (25 weeks +) I'm due to come off for a long break in a couple weeks. I've ran 500 test + 600 deca for bulking following straight by 300 test 400 tren for my current cut (unexpected holiday) plus a few orals (currently superdrol 20mg ed).

My sex drive is as I'd expect on my cycle however I've noticed orgasms are rather underwhelming and has been the same for a good 10 weeks or so. I'm wondering if any possible link with been on for a while? I also keep on top of my ai doses.

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Ross1991 said:


> Thought I'd throw in a question that's been bugging me. I've been on for a little while (25 weeks +) I'm due to come off for a long break in a couple weeks. I've ran 500 test + 600 deca for bulking following straight by 300 test 400 tren for my current cut (unexpected holiday) plus a few orals (currently superdrol 20mg ed).
> 
> My sex drive is as I'd expect on my cycle however I've noticed orgasms are rather underwhelming and has been the same for a good 10 weeks or so. I'm wondering if any possible link with been on for a while? I also keep on top of my ai doses.
> 
> Cheers


 Could be various things like tren, e2, too much hormonal imbalance for long periods of time.

Also, a lot of guys notice big spikes in sex drive and then complain of a decrease as time goes on and are not taking into account that when you have sex or masturbate x 2 daily this will eventually lead to sexual exhaustion/burn out via dopaminergic down regulation in the brain.

libido is extremely complicated and it's hard to pin point the cause of issues with so many compounds and time on in the mix. Libido/orgasm intensity usually go hand-in-hand.

Did you ever use cabergoline or pramipexole?


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> Yes, slin/GH are very strong, IF your nutrition is up to par. It's a waste if you aren't eating right to be honest. All it does is make your muscles suck in more nutrients, while increasing IGF through GH which means more muscle.


 Would you say 30iu of slin a day is enough for lean growth?


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, exactly. That looks great. German made products are also known for their exceptional quality. You can take 1-2 tabs per day, with a fatty meal for increased absorption.


 Hello bud great thread so far. Just a quick one. When running test tren and oxys is better to run an AI or I've heard it's best to just run nolva while using oxys

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> Hello bud great thread so far. Just a quick one. When running test tren and oxys is better to run an AI or I've heard it's best to just run nolva while using oxys
> 
> Thanks.


 Nolvadex lowers IGF-1. Opposite effect of growth hormone. Nolvadex should only be used for reversing gyno or PCT. Controlling AI is safer with less side effects and better for gains.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> Would you say 30iu of slin a day is enough for lean growth?


 Yes


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> What is your average oral temp? Hormonal changes can cause increase in body temp, or if you are eating more than usual, heavier than usual, etc.
> 
> You need to look at free T3 to see true thyroid activity. TSH and T4 are like looking at LH and androstenedione(testosterone precursor) instead of the active hormones Free T3 and total/free testosterone.
> 
> Most of the medical community is BEHIND. Would you ever look at LH and completely ignore total/free testosterone to diagnose hypogonadism?


 Have recently in the past 4 months come off self prescribed TRT to switch to prescription, I suppose it's been around that long TBH. Weight has fluctuated a few kg's, foods remained the same, no idea on body temp, will check this.

Will get the quack to do a full thyroid check. Cheers. :thumbup1:


----------



## G-man99

What are your views on different tren/test doses regarding sides and whether bulking/cutting?

i.e - 300/600 - 600/600 - 900/600

(Tren/Test)


----------



## Raposo

cruise or TRT?

Dosage? I was thinking on

250 test E every week

I wanted to stop blast and cruise

The first option is TRT 250 mg till I want to go blast again

The second option is a ptc with

1-2 weeks 5000 ui HCG +20 tamox ED+exemestano 25ED

3 week 20 tamox ED +25exemestano ED+100 clomid ED

4 week 10 tamox ED+12.5 exemestano ED+50 clomid ED

I am worried that it could harm my health more than run 250 testo EW forever (or till I get enough money to run a blast properly)

And, when I am using oral roids (as oxy, or winstrol) I run 600 mg NAC ED, and then 7-10 days with 800mg SAME. Is it okay? Or do you suggest other alternative?

cheers, have a lovely weekend


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> What are your views on different tren/test doses regarding sides and whether bulking/cutting?
> 
> i.e - 300/600 - 600/600 - 900/600
> 
> (Tren/Test)


 lower test for cutting because more wont give extra benefit.

Test dose with tren on bulk will depend on your tolerance to sides. For most people, test will potentiate tren sides and risk of gyno, but can add much more strength and muscle gain.

High test high tren will give the best results but highest amount and intensity of sides. Risk of gyno, high BP, dimished quality of life and mental issues will increase exponentially. Everyone has a different tolerance for sides.


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Have recently in the past 4 months come off self prescribed TRT to switch to prescription, I suppose it's been around that long TBH. Weight has fluctuated a few kg's, foods remained the same, no idea on body temp, will check this.
> 
> Will get the quack to do a full thyroid check. Cheers. :thumbup1:


 You have been off TRT this whole time? It's probably hot flashes from hormonal imbalance, you might have a bad Test:E2 ratio.

Are you still off TRT?


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> cruise or TRT?
> 
> Dosage? I was thinking on
> 
> 250 test E every week
> 
> I wanted to stop blast and cruise
> 
> The first option is TRT 250 mg till I want to go blast again
> 
> The second option is a ptc with
> 
> 1-2 weeks 5000 ui HCG +20 tamox ED+exemestano 25ED
> 
> 3 week 20 tamox ED +25exemestano ED+100 clomid ED
> 
> 4 week 10 tamox ED+12.5 exemestano ED+50 clomid ED
> 
> I am worried that it could harm my health more than run 250 testo EW forever (or till I get enough money to run a blast properly)
> 
> And, when I am using oral roids (as oxy, or winstrol) I run 600 mg NAC ED, and then 7-10 days with 800mg SAME. Is it okay? Or do you suggest other alternative?
> 
> cheers, have a lovely weekend


 It depends if you aiming for strictly TRT or a little extra for performance/energy/etc.

People need to realize that 100-250 mg per week will put everyone at different levels.

250 mg per week might only put you at 500 ng/dL total testosterone, which is average/sub-optimal. It might put another guy over 1,500 ng/dL a supraphysiological level.

Grant it, 250 mg per week will put most guys over 1,000 ng/dL, the top of the range. Going the PCT route will depend on your goals, fertility, and baseline testosterone levels before your cycle.

If you're a guy with 200-450 ng/dL testosterone pre-cycle, you might as well go HRT route if you are symptomatic because your levels are only going to get worse with each cycle.

The choice is yours, PCT doesn't always work, so it's essential to get baseline serum testosterone levels before you touch any AAS so you know how shutdown/recovered you are after your PCTs.


----------



## RRSUK

@ElChapo

I've seen you mention gene expression a few times in this thread.

Am I right in thinking this equates to the longer on cycle the greater the benefits? Obviously with health monitored. Is there any particular compounds that benefit from longer gene expression and if so in what way?

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

RRSUK said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've seen you mention gene expression a few times in this thread.
> 
> Am I right in thinking this equates to the longer on cycle the greater the benefits? Obviously with health monitored. Is there any particular compounds that benefit from longer gene expression and if so in what way?
> 
> Thanks!


 Exactly that, the longer you are on, the more genomic changes you will see. Compounds that kick in faster need less time.


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Yes, optimal vitamin D levels are linked to enhance sperm quality.
> 
> Actually, studies show men and women with high testosterone are more likely to father son's and this is why first born children tend to be son's because women have them at younger age's when their testosterone is highest. These are VERY loose correlations though, the difference is neglible.
> 
> A child's sex is determined by sperm that has XX or XY, there is no real physiological mechanism by which taking AAS could affect that i am aware of.


 thanks for the reply

What about AAS on cognitive function? Is there anything you'd recommend to increase this?


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> thanks for the reply
> 
> What about AAS on cognitive function? Is there anything you'd recommend to increase this?


 Pycnogenol/pine bark extract, x 2-3 3.5 oz servings of wild caught salmon per week, intense cardiovascular exercise to promote high levels of BDNF and optimal brain health.

Modafanil/caffeine/theanine for acute increases in cognition and focus when you need them.

Optimal testosterone tends to promote better focus and cognition. Brain fog is a common symptom of hypogonadism.


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Pycnogenol, x 2-3 3.5 oz servings of wild caught salmon per week, intense cardiovascular exercise to promote high levels BDNF and optimal brain health.
> 
> Modafanil/caffeine/theanine for acute increases in cognition and focus when you need them.
> 
> Optimal testosterone tends to promote better focus and cognition. Brain fog is a common symptom of hypogonadism.


 what would be the best short term/long term approach?

I'm fasting just now and tend to get occasional brain fog, (20 hour fasts) and haven't used AAS for 2-3 years now but thinking of going back on as when i do my focus and cognition as well as confidence all improve.


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> what would be the best short term/long term approach?
> 
> I'm fasting just now and tend to get occasional brain fog, (20 hour fasts) and haven't used AAS for 2-3 years now but thinking of going back on as when i do my focus and cognition as well as confidence all improve.


 For Ramadan? For diet-based fasting, i don't like pushing it past 16 hours after that hunger makes it uncomfortable and i tend to not be as satisfied from my meals, just a personal observation. I love intermittent fasting for cutting and maintaining low body fat. For bulking, i prefer multiple meals per day with a breakfast.

What are your testosterone levels last time you checked? You never know if your at a good level or not. Some people assume because they have libido and can get erections that their testosterone levels are great.

You may be getting this positive effect on your cognition and confidence from AAS because you are correcting a deficiency you have. This is why blood work is invaluable.


----------



## SlinMeister

Gosh next bulk will be on 1g TestE + AI 1g TrenE 1g Winstrol 15iu HGH (3iu HGH + 5iu Humalog every meal.

Can't wait to finish this cut.

@ghost.recon @ElChapo

Which diet (keto, low carb, carb cycling etc) and hormones are better for a very good cut at 6% bf? ( No W allowed  ) or you find it worked with most people...,


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> You have been off TRT this whole time? It's probably hot flashes from hormonal imbalance, you might have a bad Test:E2 ratio.
> 
> Are you still off TRT?


 Still off TRT, no testosterone for 4 months. Had two months of winny at 30mg for the mental masterbation. Last bloods came up as 0.8nmol/l, E2 unknown as it was not checked but it was fine at the start of the year.

They did test thyroid function also, TSH 3.4mu/l and free T4 16.7pmol/l so both in the higher side of average.


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Still off TRT, no testosterone for 4 months. Had two months of winny at 30mg for the mental masterbation. Last bloods came up as 0.8nmol/l, E2 unknown as it was not checked but it was fine at the start of the year.
> 
> They did test thyroid function also, TSH 3.4mu/l and free T4 16.7pmol/l so both in the higher side of average.


 Why are you off TRT for so long? Your levels should be low enough to qualify for a script by now.

TSH is subclinical hypothyroid. Keep an eye on it. The higher the TSH, the worse your thyroid function is. It is the LH of the thyroid.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Gosh next bulk will be on 1g TestE + AI 1g TrenE 1g Winstrol 15iu HGH (3iu HGH + 5iu Humalog every meal.
> 
> Can't wait to finish this cut.
> 
> @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> Which diet (keto, low carb, carb cycling etc) and hormones are better for a very good cut at 6% bf? ( No W allowed  ) or you find it worked with most people...,


 That cycle will be very effective if you are serious.

Any diet works, whatever helps you stick to your caloric deficit.


----------



## stewedw

Hi guys I get Acute acne when on cycle, usually worse with Masteron and only every on my nose which looks like it's glowing like Rudolph at times! No other acne anywhere. Would the Nizoral shampoo help? (I asked question about flaky scalp earlier in the thread and is was recommended)

I always thought keeping e2 I'm check would prevent acne?

Cheers.


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> For Ramadan? For diet-based fasting, i don't like pushing it past 16 hours after that hunger makes it uncomfortable and i tend to not be as satisfied from my meals, just a personal observation. I love intermittent fasting for cutting and maintaining low body fat. For bulking, i prefer multiple meals per day with a breakfast.
> 
> What are your testosterone levels last time you checked? You never know if your at a good level or not. Some people assume because they have libido and can get erections that their testosterone levels are great.
> 
> You may be getting this positive effect on your cognition and confidence from AAS because you are correcting a deficiency you have. This is why blood work is invaluable.


 Yes for Ramadan, i train after fasting at a reduced intensity, my mental discipline is really good.

Last time i checked, i hadn't long finished clomid and my test was 33/34nmol during an evening test (top end of normal) i suspect it would be higher during normal, lh and fsh were decent too i'll see if i can dig out the paper.

I used the website you quoted earlier to calculate FFMI . My bmi is 23 and adjusted 22.4. i'm being quite harsh and saying i'm quite a high bodyfat percentage. If i go with a lower bodyfat i'll be around 23.7 FFMI


----------



## IronJohnDoe

Will the continuos and prolonged use of AAS cause hairloss or/and receding hairline to anyone or only to people already prone to it?

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> Yes for Ramadan, i train after fasting at a reduced intensity, my mental discipline is really good.
> 
> Last time i checked, i hadn't long finished clomid and my test was 33/34nmol during an evening test (top end of normal) i suspect it would be higher during normal, lh and fsh were decent too i'll see if i can dig out the paper.
> 
> I used the website you quoted earlier to calculate FFMI . My bmi is 23 and adjusted 22.4. i'm being quite harsh and saying i'm quite a high bodyfat percentage. If i go with a lower bodyfat i'll be around 23.7 FFMI


 Note that you need to test your testosterone a couple of months after PCT to confirm it worked.

When people test too close to PCT, levels will still be elevated from the PCT drugs.


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> Will the continuos and prolonged use of AAS cause hairloss or/and receding hairline to anyone or only to people already prone to it?
> 
> @ElChapo


 Only people prone to it. This is why some people run crazy stuff for a long time and have perfect hairlines.

The no hairloss gene is fairly rare, most men have some degree of MPB by the time they are 80 years old.

Jay Cutler has some great hair genes.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Hi guys I get Acute acne when on cycle, usually worse with Masteron and only every on my nose which looks like it's glowing like Rudolph at times! No other acne anywhere. Would the Nizoral shampoo help? (I asked question about flaky scalp earlier in the thread and is was recommended)
> 
> I always thought keeping e2 I'm check would prevent acne?
> 
> Cheers.


 That's quiet odd. DHT can also cause acne. Best thing to do is deal with it and build the muscle you have to on your cycle.

Try different doses of testosterone and other compounds and find a combo that doesnt bother you as much.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> Only people prone to it. This is why some people run crazy stuff for a long time and have perfect hairlines.
> 
> The no hairloss gene is fairly rare, most men have some degree of MPB by the time they are 80 years old.
> 
> Jay Cutler has some great hair genes.


 Then I must be lucky, no hair loss, I just was wondering if after few years of going B&C that would have occur, I am glad to hear that if anything did not fall during the years it won't anymore, funny enough I grown long hairs while on crazy cycle, from shaven head to long hairs, so I can sleep fine on this one, thanks!


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> That cycle will be very effective if you are serious.
> 
> Any diet works, whatever helps you stick to your caloric deficit.


 I am serious it's only the 1g Winstrol that leaves me worried about liver and joint pain....


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> Why are you off TRT for so long? Your levels should be low enough to qualify for a script by now.
> 
> TSH is subclinical hypothyroid. Keep an eye on it. The higher the TSH, the worse your thyroid function is. It is the LH of the thyroid.


 Was not aware of this regarding TSH, thank you, do AAS have a negative impact at all?

Reason im not on TRT is because of NHS waiting times. It's taken this long for me to finally get a consult with the endocrinologist despite the amount of blood tests via my GP. Will go from there.


----------



## 31205

@ElChapo do you know all this stuff off top off your head or have to read up on stuff when you see the questions? Fascinating amount of knowledge you have. Even the stuff I absolutely don't understand is interesting!


----------



## richardrahl

sen said:


> @ElChapo do you know all this stuff off top off your head or have to read up on stuff when you see the questions? Fascinating amount of knowledge you have. Even the stuff I absolutely don't understand is interesting!


 It's astounding. I think he must have a head the size of a small car.


----------



## GeordieOak70

richardrahl said:


> It's astounding. I think he must have a head the size of a small car.


 Yeah and a small car to Americans is a big car to us UK people lol.


----------



## ReRaise

@El Chapo

Today is exactly 8 weeks out for me and today I introduce the orals and thermogenics.

Currently running test p / tren a / mast p at 262.5mg each per week.

I have a stanavar oral mix which is 25mg each per tab.

What dose would you recommend for this. 75mg each sound right? Or I have seperate var so could do 50mg winstrol/100mg var? Wondering which would be best?

Also, would you see a problem with increasing the test/tren/mast to 393.5mg per week of each? (It's a blend btw)


----------



## G-man99

Does clen need to be taken on an empty stomach or is with food ok?

Also does splitting the dose by a few hours reduce the sides, mainly shakes?

My main issue with clen is severe cramps, but a lot of this may of been to using high doses.

Will only go to 80mcg this time and hopefully avoid the cramps


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> Then I must be lucky, no hair loss, I just was wondering if after few years of going B&C that would have occur, I am glad to hear that if anything did not fall during the years it won't anymore, funny enough I grown long hairs while on crazy cycle, from shaven head to long hairs, so I can sleep fine on this one, thanks!


 Don't count your eggs yet, if you don't have any hairline/temple recession at all, you either won't bald or it will take a long time.


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Was not aware of this regarding TSH, thank you, do AAS have a negative impact at all?
> 
> Reason im not on TRT is because of NHS waiting times. It's taken this long for me to finally get a consult with the endocrinologist despite the amount of blood tests via my GP. Will go from there.


 That's horrible man, good luck

You could always run test base or prop daily and discontinue a week or two before your consult, you won't be feeling like s**t and your levels will come back even more shutdown for the test.

You probably recovered a little bit of function from this TRT break.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> @ElChapo do you know all this stuff off top off your head or have to read up on stuff when you see the questions? Fascinating amount of knowledge you have. Even the stuff I absolutely don't understand is interesting!


 I have very good long-term memory and read a ton daily. You also need to have good critical thinking skills to sift through the garbage and find the gold nuggets.


----------



## ElChapo

richardrahl said:


> It's astounding. I think he must have a head the size of a small car.





GeordieOak70 said:


> Yeah and a small car to Americans is a big car to us UK people lol.


 LMAO :thumb


----------



## GeordieOak70

Whats your opinion on creatine @ElChapo ? Ive used various kinds of it in the past with no real benefits but lately im using Jay Cutlers Amino Pump intra workout.

It has creatine in the mix amongst other things and its working great I get a real good pump in the gym from it.

Was wondering if supplementing creatine was worth it or not as a singular sup ?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Today is exactly 8 weeks out for me and today I introduce the orals and thermogenics.
> 
> Currently running test p / tren a / mast p at 262.5mg each per week.
> 
> I have a stanavar oral mix which is 25mg each per tab.
> 
> What dose would you recommend for this. 75mg each sound right? Or I have seperate var so could do 50mg winstrol/100mg var? Wondering which would be best?
> 
> Also, would you see a problem with increasing the test/tren/mast to 393.5mg per week of each? (It's a blend btw)


 You need just enough AAS to preserve muscle in a caloric deficit and bring out conditioning via SQ water reduction and vascularity.

If you feel like you could be getting more conditioning out of your drugs or are losing too much strength/mass, increase your dosage. 75 mg each or 50/100 will work wonderfully. Just gotta experiment and find YOUR sweet spot.


----------



## Tricky

G-man99 said:


> Does clen need to be taken on an empty stomach or is with food ok?
> 
> Also does splitting the dose by a few hours reduce the sides, mainly shakes?
> 
> My main issue with clen is severe cramps, but a lot of this may of been to using high doses.
> 
> Will only go to 80mcg this time and hopefully avoid the cramps


 What lab are you using? I'm taking 80mg clen first thing on empty stomach. Only slight shakes and no cramps yet, today is day 6. I'm sweating a lot more for sure which is good I guess.


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

Previously on bulks I've struggled with appetite after a couple of months, I think it's down to the orals, mainly anadrol.

Is winstrol likely to be the same or Not?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Whats your opinion on creatine @ElChapo ? Ive used various kinds of it in the past with no real benefits but lately im using Jay Cutlers Amino Pump intra workout.
> 
> It has creatine in the mix amongst other things and its working great I get a real good pump in the gym from it.
> 
> Was wondering if supplementing creatine was worth it or not as a singular sup ?


 I only bring it out when bulking, i don't run it during maintenance or cutting because it bloats me. Some people don't get this effect. If you don't bloat from it, running it through a cut would be beneficial as well due it's strong anti-catabolic properties. Studies show that people who are bedbound, but are supplemented with creatine preserve a lot more muscle than placebo, a very impressive effect. Creatine monohydrate is what you want, everything else marketing bullshit.

Try to get Creapure from Germany, it's extremely high quality product. I believe optimum's creatine uses it, and it's cheap.

You don't really need it. Myself and other have gotten on fine, but i have pulled it out when hitting plateaus to help break them.

It should enhance muscle satellite cell proliferation, this is the permanent muscle cell associated with muscle memory, that you want to increase. AAS usage increases the size and number of the cells. If you were to take a muscle biopsy of an AAS user and compare it to a normal man, the number and size of the satellite cells will be vastly different. (Studies show a 30% increase, very impressive)


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> I have very good long-term memory and read a ton daily. You also need to have good critical thinking skills to sift through the garbage and find the gold nuggets.


 god bless your memory! I've never read every post in a thread before this one. Well interesting.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Previously on bulks I've struggled with appetite after a couple of months, I think it's down to the orals, mainly anadrol.
> 
> Is winstrol likely to be the same or Not?


 I had the same issue when bulking for many months. The main issue is that your leptin levels are extremely high. Leptin is the satiety hormone that tells your body that you are full. When you carry more bodyfat, your body will want to eat less generally. This is why it is difficult for most people to maintain low body fat, because low body fat = less leptin = more appetite.

Are you taking any tren? What's your cycle? Orals can cause GI symptoms and lack of appetite in many people.

Liver toxicity from orals usually comes from a condition called cholestasis. This is when the bile flow is impeded and the bile pools in the liver ducts, this causes the liver to destroy itself since it can expel enzymes/bile/etc. TUDCA is a bile salt which keeps bile flow running smoothly, thereby, preventing 17-alkylated AAS induced cholestasis in the first place.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> You need just enough AAS to preserve muscle in a caloric deficit and bring out conditioning via SQ water reduction and vascularity.
> 
> If you feel like you could be getting more conditioning out of your drugs or are losing too much strength/mass, increase your dosage. 75 mg each or 50/100 will work wonderfully. Just gotta experiment and find YOUR sweet spot.


 Thanks buddy; I've been fighting for my life for the last that couple of weeks to hold onto strength so definitely know the addition of the orals are needed.... as for loss of muscle it's hard to tell at this stage if that's happening or if it's just the mind-f##k of prep lol. I'd certainly feel I had a better 'safety blanket' at the higher test/tren/mast dose!


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thanks buddy; I've been fighting for my life for the last that couple of weeks to hold onto strength so definitely know the addition of the orals are needed.... as for loss of muscle it's hard to tell at this stage if that's happening or if it's just the mind-f##k of prep lol. I'd certainly feel I had a better 'safety blanket' at the higher test/tren/mast dose!


 Never confuse muscle loss with low glycogen stores from low carb intake. It's a fine line between shredded wheat conditioning and poor, flat, glycogen depleted bastard.

Up the doses and hit the orals, safety blanket just like you said.


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> I had the same issue when bulking for many months. The main issue is that your leptin levels are extremely high. Leptin is the satiety hormone that tells your body that you are full. When you carry more bodyfat, your body will want to eat less generally. This is why it is difficult for most people to maintain low body fat, because low body fat = less leptin = more appetite.
> 
> Are you taking any tren? What's your cycle? Orals can cause GI symptoms and lack of appetite in many people.
> 
> Liver toxicity from orals usually comes from a condition called cholestasis. This is when the bile flow is impeded and the bile pools in the liver ducts, this causes the liver to destroy itself since it can expel enzymes/bile/etc. TUDCA is a bile salt which keeps bile flow running smoothly, thereby, preventing 17-alkylated AAS induced cholestasis in the first place.


 My bodyfat was probably around 18% roughly at the time, not a great bulk was putting on too much fat.

Didn't use tren on last bulk, it was 500mg sust, 800mg deca, 50mg anadrol ed.

Appetite was so suppressed i was waking up and couldn't stomach my oats, was just eating a few mouthfuls.


----------



## 31205

ReRaise said:


> Thanks buddy; I've been fighting for my life for the last that couple of weeks to hold onto strength so definitely know the addition of the orals are needed.... as for loss of muscle it's hard to tell at this stage if that's happening or if it's just the mind-f##k of prep lol. I'd certainly feel I had a better 'safety blanket' at the higher test/tren/mast dose!


 You don't have to censor your bad language mate! The forum does it automatically because none of us are adults....


----------



## G-man99

Tricky said:


> What lab are you using? I'm taking 80mg clen first thing on empty stomach. Only slight shakes and no cramps yet, today is day 6. I'm sweating a lot more for sure which is good I guess.


 Only started today on Triumph 40mcg

Usually I will only use pharma grade for ancillaries but had an entire Triumph cycle to review how good it is


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> My bodyfat was probably around 18% roughly at the time, not a great bulk was putting on too much fat.
> 
> Didn't use tren on last bulk, it was 500mg sust, 800mg deca, 50mg anadrol ed.
> 
> Appetite was so suppressed i was waking up and couldn't stomach my oats, was just eating a few mouthfuls.


 Most likely a combination of your bulk/fat percentage and the anadrol. Since you gained so much fat, try a bit less calories next time and find that sweet spot.

At the end of the day, gaining a bit extra fat isn't so bad as it won't take long to get back to respectable conditioning, but after many long bulk/cut cycles, i would rather stay under 15% year round. Personally, i like to maintain 6-8% bodyfat when not cutting/bulking.


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> Most likely a combination of your bulk/fat percentage and the anadrol. Since you gained so much fat, try a bit less calories next time and find that sweet spot.
> 
> At the end of the day, gaining a bit extra fat isn't so bad as it won't take long to get back to respectable conditioning, but after many long bulk/cut cycles, i would rather stay under 15% year round. Personally, i like to maintain 6-8% bodyfat when not cutting/bulking.


 Yeah I've taken your advise on board, I'm currently cutting now, going to wait till under 10% body fat and slowly lean bulk aiming for 0.5lb a week.

I think I've messed up in the past by upping the calories too fast and not getting lean enough in the first place.


----------



## G-man99

@ElChapo clen with or without food?


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> Yeah I've taken your advise on board, I'm currently cutting now, going to wait till under 10% body fat and slowly lean bulk aiming for 0.5lb a week.
> 
> I think I've messed up in the past by upping the calories too fast and not getting lean enough in the first place.


 Good deal, the best part is that you will have a respectable, lean physique year round. You will feel better and results will be better. Your cuts won't be drawn out by the months either. Some people like the dirty bulk ---> get fat and big as hell and then cut method.

I respect that but i've been there/done that and prefer the former method now.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> @ElChapo clen with or without food?


 Faster absorption on empty stomach, other than that, it doesn't matter.


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> Faster absorption on empty stomach, other than that, it doesn't matter.


 Cheers buddy


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

If cutting from say 15% to sub 10%, using 300mg test, 50mg winny, 50mcg t3,

1) would you keep lifting weights and just do steady state cardio, or hiit?

2)would you do keto or not?

3) is there a need for drugs at that level of bodyfat/weight or is it just a safety net for muscle sparring/ increase of lyposis in the case of t3

4) how long would you give yourself of it were 15lbs of fat to cut

I'm aware this sounds vague, but after reading most of the replies I think I'd like to get as lean as possible before bulking lean, as I got to 10% at Xmas running dnp and alternating days on or off carbs for 4-6 weeks, but there's no chance even in Scotland that I would get away with dnp in this weather lol. Plus I'm looking to different approaches as test, tren, mast, dnp and cardio surely wasn't necessary to get me lean, and when I fkd up the bulk six weeks into it, I kept the fat too high and im likely now needing to start again smarter this time. Cheers.


----------



## Wayno

@ElChapo is it necessary to keep upping clen dosage or can you work up to a certain dose and stay there and it still being beneficial?


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> That's horrible man, good luck
> 
> You could always run test base or prop daily and discontinue a week or two before your consult, you won't be feeling like s**t and your levels will come back even more shutdown for the test.
> 
> You probably recovered a little bit of function from this TRT break.


 Probably should have started to do that a while back in hindsight, was more worried about using mislabelled gear though and recieving a longer chain ester thus skewing my results. Will all be worth it when it's sorted though as I will end up getting medical TRT + bloods for life, for pretty much free. After that's past start blasting again.

Funnily enough my libido has been fine, it's just the lethargy that's crippling me.

Will make sure my levels are rock bottom for next blood test, no need to worry about that. lol


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If cutting from say 15% to sub 10%, using 300mg test, 50mg winny, 50mcg t3,
> 
> 1) would you keep lifting and just do steady state cardio,
> 
> 2)would you do keto or not?
> 
> 3) is there a need for drugs at that level or is it just a safety net for muscle sparring/ increase of lyposis in the case of t3
> 
> 4) how long would you give yourself of it were 15lbs of fat to cut
> 
> I'm aware this sounds vague, but after reading most of the replies I think I'd like to get as lean as possible before bulking lean, as I got to 10% at Xmas running dnp and alternating days on or off carbs for 4-6 weeks, but there's no chance even in Scotland that I would get away with dnp in this weather lol. Plus I'm looking to different approaches as test, tren, mast, dnp and cardio surely wasn't necessary to get me lean, and when I fkd up the bulk six weeks into it, I kept the fat too high and im likely now needing to start again smarter this time. Cheers.


 1- What do you mean keep lifting and just do cardio?

2-I don't like keto, you will be glycogen depleted which means you will be flat, strength and performance will drop and you will feel like dog s**t. Keto does not burn more fat than standard dieting. The quick initial weight loss that excites everyone is glycogen depletion, something you don't want as an athlete or bodybuilder.

3-What level? AAS and fat burners make it easier to maintain muscle and lose fat a bit faster. They aren't necessary. The AAS will be important if you are holding onto a lot of muscle. Obviously, cutting during PCT or off cycle is a recipe for muscle loss.

4-It depends on how fat you are to begin with and what methods you are employing into your cut. 1-2 lbs of fat per week is standard depending on your level of leanness.

Be more specific in all your questions so that i can help you out better, everything is dependent on the all the details, everyone's approach is going to be different. There is no cookie cutter here.


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> @ElChapo is it necessary to keep upping clen dosage or can you work up to a certain dose and stay there and it still being beneficial?


 You can stay at the same dosage. Let your diet/cardio do 90% of the work.


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Probably should have started to do that a while back in hindsight, was more worried about using mislabelled gear though and recieving a longer chain ester thus skewing my results. Will all be worth it when it's sorted though as I will end up getting medical TRT + bloods for life, for pretty much free. After that's past start blasting again.
> 
> Funnily enough my libido has been fine, it's just the lethargy that's crippling me.
> 
> Will make sure my levels are rock bottom for next blood test, no need to worry about that. lol


 I understand completely, that thought would have crossed my mind as well. Good luck, hoping for the best for you.


----------



## stewedw

Edited he questions


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> You can stay at the same dosage. Let your diet/cardio do 90% of the work.


 Thank you dude


----------



## zariph

Thoughts on IF when bulking? Also if doing IF and training on empty stomach, how much will this impact musclegrowth - if the case is performance is just at good fasted as not fasted, im only thinking whether it actually helps building and recovering, so dont take the performance aspect in consideration. (sorry if my english sucks)


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Note that you need to test your testosterone a couple of months after PCT to confirm it worked.
> 
> When people test too close to PCT, levels will still be elevated from the PCT drugs.


 i'll get a baseline test done before going back on, i am trying to make a go of it without AAS but this thread and the knowledge has really helped!


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If cutting from say 15% to sub 10%, using 300mg test, 50mg winny, 50mcg t3,
> 
> 1) would you keep lifting weights and just do steady state cardio, or hiit?
> 
> 2)would you do keto or not?
> 
> 3) is there a need for drugs at that level of bodyfat/weight or is it just a safety net for muscle sparring/ increase of lyposis in the case of t3
> 
> 4) how long would you give yourself of it were 15lbs of fat to cut
> 
> I'm aware this sounds vague, but after reading most of the replies I think I'd like to get as lean as possible before bulking lean, as I got to 10% at Xmas running dnp and alternating days on or off carbs for 4-6 weeks, but there's no chance even in Scotland that I would get away with dnp in this weather lol. Plus I'm looking to different approaches as test, tren, mast, dnp and cardio surely wasn't necessary to get me lean, and when I fkd up the bulk six weeks into it, I kept the fat too high and im likely now needing to start again smarter this time. Cheers.


 Diet and exercise doesn't matter as much as caloric deficit. You need enough strength training to maintain muscle mass, and a little bit of cardio to increase fat loss and total weekly deficit. HIIT vs LISS is mostly preference. I combine the two for fun, but it doesn't really matter.

You don't need drugs or T3 to get under 10% bodyfat if that's what you are asking. You can get to 5-6% naturally. You can also keep most of your muscle and strength, but you need to lose fat very slowly under 9%, about .5-.75 lbs per week max.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thoughts on IF when bulking? Also if doing IF and training on empty stomach, how much will this impact musclegrowth - if the case is performance is just at good fasted as not fasted, im only thinking whether it actually helps building and recovering, so dont take the performance aspect in consideration. (sorry if my english sucks)


 IF makes it harder for me to eat enough calories on a bulk. This is very beneficial for cutting and maintenance though.

The main benefit of IF is increased adherance to diet since your body gets better at controlling hunger and your meals tend to be more satiating because they have more calories. There are some studies showing some small benefits, but its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. A diet should be tailored for performance and adherence. One that allows you to perform at your best, but that you will stick to until you reach your goals.


----------



## stewedw

Excellent. Thanks. Like many, I probably overthink things and should just keep it simple. Thanks.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> Don't count your eggs yet, if you don't have any hairline/temple recession at all, you either won't bald or it will take a long time.


 Surely time will tell,

but I never lost an hair while using in past androgens or similar, beside in the last 2 years I been B&C and grown long hairs, both my grandfathers passed at almost 90 from my mum side he had long hairs until the end and from my father side he had most of his hairs just a slight temple recession.

I asked as I was not sure if hair loss was a problem only affecting people genetically when taking AAS or if after long usage would have affect anyone.

Then again you are right time will tell, just I am not super worry now


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> Surely time will tell,
> 
> but I never lost an hair while using in past androgens or similar, beside in the last 2 years I been B&C and grown long hairs, both my grandfathers passed at almost 90 from my mum side he had long hairs until the end and from my father side he had most of his hairs just a slight temple recession.
> 
> I asked as I was not sure if hair loss was a problem only affecting people genetically when taking AAS or if after long usage would have affect anyone.
> 
> Then again you are right time will tell, just I am not super worry now


 Yeah, i'm sure you have a good chance of keeping your hair taking everything into consideration.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Excellent. Thanks. Like many, I probably overthink things and should just keep it simple. Thanks.


 exactly, keep it simple and put all your effort and thought into the basics.


----------



## gcortese

When should one worry about post injection pain? I can't walk normally, basically got a peg leg lol.

I am as confident as can be that the gear is clean so that is not what I am worried about.

took just one mil of dhb from SG into right quad and the swelling is bad, it's very noticeable and feeling the muscle it's very hard to the touch theres a lot of fluid in there/contracted and not relaxed muscle. No imprint is left when pressing on the area and it's not hot touch. It's been 6 days since the pin and pain didn't start till Tuesday night (pinned Monday morning) I took a second pin in my other quad cut with 50mg/ml pharma deca and there's some pip but no swelling.


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo. Many thanks for your detailes response! (the hypothetical transformation on the previous page).

I am interested in this for two reasons :

1) I have always been hugely intrigued as to how different androgens affect the body and ultimately the drastic changes they could bring about of used at high doses and/or for long enough. It literally fascinates me!

2) I myself have the hair loss gene for sure. I started receding and thinning in my mid twenties and now at 31 I am on the verge of having to shave it. I have only ever used trt doses of test as I need it, but I was always scared of hair loss. Now I'm in the position where I am thinking fck it, I'm going to lose my hair anyway, I may as well try and have an amazing body! I shall soon be starting test and mast at 300mg in each per week and then see how I go from there. I'll no doubt try tren at some point, but I'll give low dose test and mast a go first.

Thanks again!

Edit: I also have some 12% DHT gel. Any ideas how I could incorporate this? Several times per day I'm guessing?


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo. Many thanks for your detailes response! (the hypothetical transformation on the previous page).
> 
> I am interested in this for two reasons :
> 
> 1) I have always been hugely intrigued as to how different androgens affect the body and ultimately the drastic changes they could bring about of used at high doses and/or for long enough. It literally fascinates me!
> 
> 2) I myself have the hair loss gene for sure. I started receding and thinning in my mid twenties and now at 31 I am on the verge of having to shave it. I have only ever used trt doses of test as I need it, but I was always scared of hair loss. Now I'm in the position where I am thinking fck it, I'm going to lose my hair anyway, I may as well try and have an amazing body! I shall soon be starting test and mast at 300mg in each per week and then see how I go from there. I'll no doubt try tren at some point, but I'll give low dose test and mast a go first.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Edit: I also have some 12% DHT gel. Any ideas how I could incorporate this? Several times per day I'm guessing?


 DHT gel has been used topically by some with claims of reversing gyno.

Other than that, it might have some libido boosting, hair killing properties for you.

Masteron is like herbicide for hair if you have MPB. Tread carefully.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

what would you suggest for recomp ?

feels like im just about tip 15%

i could lower my calories (cardios at 20minx4 a week) or up cardio but feel it may be a better idea to either add t4 or low dose clen, to keep my cals high and nutrient partioning may work better?

ive heard a few pros do this mid bulk to keep the fire burning so to speak

apparently has more advantages than just that...

what would your suggestion be the t4 or clen ?


----------



## John Boy 1985

What's your view on statins, we have high family history of heart disease. I'm 37 and always have had high cholesterol. My diet has always been good and run an average of 10 miles a week, do you think I should take a statin, I B&C. My total cholesterol is 5.7. Low hdl and high ldl


----------



## ReRaise

@El Chapo What would you recommend, if anything for when deep into prep and sex drive disappears.

Test/tren/mast/var/winny and at the moment libido has pretty much disappeared. The lack of sleep, meds, general tiredness etc...just no interest in sex right now.

It would save me 8 weeks of hassle from the mrs if I could keep libido up!


----------



## SlinMeister

What do you think of that cycle for a cut?

12w 1g PrimoE 60mg Anavar ed 8iu HGH ed

A friend of mine wants to try it.... How will react our body for 12w at no test?


----------



## GeordieOak70

SlinMeister said:


> What do you think of that cycle for a cut?
> 
> 12w 1g PrimoE 60mg Anavar ed 8iu HGH ed
> 
> A friend of mine wants to try it.... How will react our body for 12w at no test?


 Like a 12 year old girl id guess :lol:


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo any truth in the rumour that marijuana can cause estrogen to spike and gyno ?


----------



## SlinMeister

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo any truth in the rumour that marijuana can cause estrogen to spike and gyno ?


 For sure it will raise hunger


----------



## GeordieOak70

SlinMeister said:


> For sure it will raise hunger


 That's broscience I smoked it for 20+ years no hunger spikes what so ever infact I ate less than when not on it.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what would you suggest for recomp ?
> 
> feels like im just about tip 15%
> 
> i could lower my calories (cardios at 20minx4 a week) or up cardio but feel it may be a better idea to either add t4 or low dose clen, to keep my cals high and nutrient partioning may work better?
> 
> ive heard a few pros do this mid bulk to keep the fire burning so to speak
> 
> apparently has more advantages than just that...
> 
> what would your suggestion be the t4 or clen ?


 Neither. Do a cut to wherever you want to be, then lean bulk to stay lean while adding muscle.

Recomp is too unpredictable and slow. You are better off getting lean and staying there with a controlled surplus to put on muscle. Then cut again when if/when you reach 15%.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> What's your view on statins, we have high family history of heart disease. I'm 37 and always have had high cholesterol. My diet has always been good and run an average of 10 miles a week, do you think I should take a statin, I B&C. My total cholesterol is 5.7. Low hdl and high ldl


 Put it this way, statins can deplete coq10 from all your cells including skin, speeding up aging. They are also toxic to muscle cells. Some people get statin induced myopathy.

My father has had high cholesterol since he was 21, his arteries and veins are the cleanest his doctor has ever seen. He has done regular cardio and exercise since he was a kid. He always stayed lean and eaten a fairly healthy diet.

Cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Find one of my posts in this thread where i explain the pathogenesis of coronary artery disease and atherosclerosis. Statins are poison.

What you need to regular, intensive cardiovascular exercise and to maintain a low bodyfat. I have never, ever seen a fit person with heart disease, high cholesterol or not. Barring marathon runners, they have messed up hearts from overtraining/excessive oxidation.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @El Chapo What would you recommend, if anything for when deep into prep and sex drive disappears.
> 
> Test/tren/mast/var/winny and at the moment libido has pretty much disappeared. The lack of sleep, meds, general tiredness etc...just no interest in sex right now.
> 
> It would save me 8 weeks of hassle from the mrs if I could keep libido up!


 If your cycle is important to you, take cialis daily and pop viagra when you anticipate intercourse and give it to her good. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Most likely its the tren if you are wondering. Are you taking any AI? What and how much? Pharma or UGL?

Hard dieting will also reduce libido. A carb refeed will upregulate leptin, dopamine, etc again and will help with mood and energy if this is your problem. One week at maintenance calories, 300-450 carbs per day. Keep training to keep that partioning effect. Your muscles will fill back out and you will feel stronger and much better mentally.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> What do you think of that cycle for a cut?
> 
> 12w 1g PrimoE 60mg Anavar ed 8iu HGH ed
> 
> A friend of mine wants to try it.... How will react our body for 12w at no test?


 Expensive for no reason and results wont be anything special. (two overrated drugs)

600/600 mg test/tren with GH/Slin will be x 5 better. Add winny for some extra firepower.(stronger than var mg per mg)

You can get away fine with no test, but it's an individual thing. Some can, some can't and it's going to depend on the hormones replacing test.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo any truth in the rumour that marijuana can cause estrogen to spike and gyno ?


 Yeah, this won't matter if you take exogenous hormones though.

Marijuana can lower endogenous test and throw off the natural test:E2 ratio. Gyno is rare and it's only going to happen in susceptible individuals.


----------



## 31205

@ElChapo are you clued up with other medical things to do with the brain or just gear training and nutrition etc?


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> @ElChapo are you clued up with other medical things to do with the brain or just gear training and nutrition etc?


 I am pretty well-rounded in all subjects. My specialty is endocrine science though.


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> Expensive for no reason and results wont be anything special. (two overrated drugs)
> 
> 600/600 mg test/tren with GH/Slin will be x 5 better. Add winny for some extra firepower.(stronger than var mg per mg)
> 
> You can get away fine with no test, but it's an individual thing. Some can, some can't and it's going to depend on the hormones replacing test.


 I'm planning my next blast 300mg test 450mg tren and 600mg dhb and maybe mtren or winny for an oral mtren only on training days. This will be for a 12 week bulk does this cycle look ok? Is there anything you would change?


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> I'm planning my next blast 300mg test 450mg tren and 600mg dhb and maybe mtren or winny for an oral mtren only on training days. This will be for a 12 week bulk does this cycle look ok? Is there anything you would change?


 Looks great


----------



## Tricky

@El Chapo

 I'm just getting together my bits and pieces for cycle

ive got test 400 so plan to run 0.75ml once a week which is 300mg test and I've nolva on standby just in case

I only got adex 1mg tabs. Since I'm running test at 300mg a week what dose of adex will I run. Will half a tab twice a week be sufficient or one tab twice a week?


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> Looks great


 Also is there a best time to take orals with food or without or on an empty stomach or does it not make a difference at all.


----------



## Heavyassweights

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, i read that part. I was just adding for those reading that x 2-3 per night is cause for concern in case they notice this symptom in themselves.
> 
> I believe you are okay. Make sure you keep E2 in normal ranges. Never go over 70 pg/mL.


 My twice per night for the last week or so has now got me thinking. Dam you and your helpful info.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> I am pretty well-rounded in all subjects. My specialty is endocrine science though.


 Would taking 150 X 10mg valium affect my brain in a way that'd cause me to get emotional over pretty much anything in the future?

2012 I took 150 Valium. Ended up in hospital and on citalopram for quite a while for depression. Had to see a psychiatrist etc. Obviously it wasn't one of the happier periods in my life and even now anything remotely sad or even happy like cancer research adverts and even cowboy builders on TV have me almost in tears! Haha.

I'm thinking could all that Valium have changed something in my brain? I'm getting married 1st August and pretty worried it'll be embarrassing cos I'll start sobbing. Seriously considering seeing my doctor but don't want to waste their time if it's just me being soft.


----------



## Sasnak

sen said:


> It'll be embarrassing cos I'll start sobbing.


 I can't answer your question but I did on my wedding day. It was a little awkward, but not embarrassing. Enjoy!


----------



## 31205

Sasnak said:


> I can't answer your question but I did on my wedding day. It was a little awkward, but not embarrassing. Enjoy!


 Have you seen the Amazon advert where they buy a mane for their dog? That nearly sets me off!


----------



## Sasnak

sen said:


> Have you seen the Amazon advert where they buy a mane for their dog? That nearly sets me off!


 No, not seen that one. I'm quite an emotional person anyway. The John Lewis Christmas advert a year last with the Child and the 2 penguins properly set me off though, so I know where you are coming from.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I'm just getting together my bits and pieces for cycle
> 
> ive got test 400 so plan to run 0.75ml once a week which is 300mg test and I've nolva on standby just in case
> 
> I only got adex 1mg tabs. Since I'm running test at 300mg a week what dose of adex will I run. Will half a tab twice a week be sufficient or one tab twice a week?


 1 mg per week should be enough to keep most within normal limits in regards to E2. Some need none, some need more.

You can take adex once a week or x 2 per week.


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> Also is there a best time to take orals with food or without or on an empty stomach or does it not make a difference at all.


 Anytime is fine.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Would taking 150 X 10mg valium affect my brain in a way that'd cause me to get emotional over pretty much anything in the future?
> 
> 2012 I took 150 Valium. Ended up in hospital and on citalopram for quite a while for depression. Had to see a psychiatrist etc. Obviously it wasn't one of the happier periods in my life and even now anything remotely sad or even happy like cancer research adverts and even cowboy builders on TV have me almost in tears! Haha.
> 
> I'm thinking could all that Valium have changed something in my brain? I'm getting married 1st August and pretty worried it'll be embarrassing cos I'll start sobbing. Seriously considering seeing my doctor but don't want to waste their time if it's just me being soft.


 Highly doubt it, the mechanism of action of valium is through GABA. A neurotransmitter that promotes relaxation. If anything, a long-term side i would expect is anxiety/irritability from the brain downregulating. GABAnergic neurotransmission with long-term use and/or discontinuance of the drug.

What are your hormones like right now? Do you cycle/PCT or cruise? What are you running when you have these negative feelings?


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Highly doubt it, the mechanism of action of valium is through GABA. A neurotransmitter that promotes relaxation. If anything, a long-term side i would expect is anxiety/irritability from the brain downregulating. GABAnergic neurotransmission with long-term use and/or discontinuance of the drug.
> 
> What are your hormones like right now? Do you cycle/PCT or cruise? What are you running when you have these negative feelings?


 I do fairly long blasts and probably not enough time cruising.

It's not just the negative stuff that does it, it's also happy stuff that sets me off.

Maybe the birth of my son has something to do with it? Obviously life has changed dramatically since then. Up until 2012 I was using drugs pretty much every weekend and partying. Once I met my current partner all that stopped cos she has 2 kids so it's been pretty much family life since then. Then our son was born 2014.


----------



## 31205

Sasnak said:


> No, not seen that one. I'm quite an emotional person anyway. The John Lewis Christmas advert a year last with the Child and the 2 penguins properly set me off though, so I know where you are coming from.


 Haha and me! Glad I'm not the only one mate. Actually made me feel better reading this. Appreciate your input.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> I do fairly long blasts and probably not enough time cruising.
> 
> It's not just the negative stuff that does it, it's also happy stuff that sets me off.
> 
> Maybe the birth of my son has something to do with it? Obviously life has changed dramatically since then. Up until 2012 I was using drugs pretty much every weekend and partying. Once I met my current partner all that stopped cos she has 2 kids so it's been pretty much family life since then. Then our son was born 2014.


 Yeah, long time on drugs can re-wire the brain. Maybe you just feel different emotionally than you used to because you aren't on all those drugs.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo Thoughts on ostarine mk-2866 along side 500mg of test and 10mg mk677


----------



## Pancake'

Say someone was to run the tried & tested stack of Test/Deca/Dbol and wanted to become even more anabolic and wanted to include Slin & GH, what would starting doses for first time for someone using GH or Slin be? what doses Test/Deca/Dbol would you opt for personally, alongside the GH + Slin

What would you favour for all out quality dry muscle gain in a period of 12 weeks, a more dryer stack than the above.

Do you feel peps like GHRP2 + MK6777 are worthy additions.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo Thoughts on ostarine mk-2866 along side 500mg of test and 10mg mk677


 I'm not into SARMs, AAS do it better.

I feel the GH secretagogues might have some potential in combination with AAS, but you don't need any of this stuff.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> I'm not into SARMs, AAS do it better.
> 
> I feel the GH secretagogues might have some potential in combination with AAS, but you don't need any of this stuff.


 Ok thanks buddy


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Say someone was to run the tried & tested stack of Test/Deca/Dbol and wanted to become even more anabolic and wanted to include Slin & GH, what would starting doses for first time for someone using GH or Slin be? what doses Test/Deca/Dbol would you opt for personally, alongside the GH + Slin
> 
> What would you favour for all out quality dry muscle gain in a period of 12 weeks, a more dryer stack than the above.
> 
> Do you feel peps like GHRP2 + MK6777 are worthy additions.


 I answered this in a previous post, any basic beginner GH/SLIN protocol will due, just focus on the most anabolic thing = Caloric surplus+Progressive overload. Everything else is just 10%.

Dry, vascular, lean mass gain cycle = Test 300 mg+AI/Tren/Winstrol, dosage will vary on your experience level and goals. Add methyltren injectable for extra kick and body recomposition effects.

Remember, quality physique comes from being under 10% body fat. You can be dry and lean on test only. Even someone with subpar muscular development will look great and aesthetically pleasing under 10% body fat. 6-8% body fat is when striations, vascularity, seperation and abdominal definition will really come out. Your face will tend to look best as skin will be tight and firm, and masculine features will be more prominent.

In my opinion, 8% is the perfect percentage for muscle fullness, seperation, abdominal definition(8% you should see abs without flexing). This bodyfat percentage is relatively easy to maintain year round and is usually where you will look and feel best. Some people start to drag ass when they get under 8% but this highly genetic. Some guys will maintain excellent conditioning year round with ease, for others it will take tigher diet and more activity in varying degrees.

I think the GH peptides are alright, might give you a little extra edge if they boost your IGF-1 high enough. You don't need them.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> IF makes it harder for me to eat enough calories on a bulk. This is very beneficial for cutting and maintenance though.
> 
> The main benefit of IF is increased adherance to diet since your body gets better at controlling hunger and your meals tend to be more satiating because they have more calories. There are some studies showing some small benefits, but its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. A diet should be tailored for performance and adherence. One that allows you to perform at your best, but that you will stick to until you reach your goals.


 Thx dude, just to be sure that I understand. So if I prefer IF for bulking and training on empty stomach its just as fine as the usual 5-6meals?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx dude, just to be sure that I understand. So if I prefer IF for bulking and training on empty stomach its just as fine as the usual 5-6meals?


 Yeah, as long as you can get your calories in, it's the same thing. You might have a slight benefit of staying leaner from using IF since it turns on certain genes that promote fat loss, but this effect is negligible and your results will be 95% diet/calories.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> If your cycle is important to you, take cialis daily and pop viagra when you anticipate intercourse and give it to her good. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
> 
> Most likely its the tren if you are wondering. Are you taking any AI? What and how much? Pharma or UGL?
> 
> Hard dieting will also reduce libido. A carb refeed will upregulate leptin, dopamine, etc again and will help with mood and energy if this is your problem. One week at maintenance calories, 300-450 carbs per day. Keep training to keep that partioning effect. Your muscles will fill back out and you will feel stronger and much better mentally.


 I was using arimidex before at 0.5mg eod and all was fine, this was while on Test E/NPP. As I switched over to test/tren/mast I dropped the arimidex after my coach gave me an arimidex protocol that has me using it daily for the last 3 weeks until show, tapering up to 1mg ed the final week....so thats when i dropped the arimdex, thinking i'd get more benefit from its use within the final 3 weeks.

Will this be why the sex drive has gone. Do you think adding it back in at 0.5mg eod would get the sex drive back without it affecting its use for the last 3 weeks?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> I was using arimidex before at 0.5mg eod and all was fine, this was while on Test E/NPP. As I switched over to test/tren/mast I dropped the arimidex after my coach gave me an arimidex protocol that has me using it daily for the last 3 weeks until show, tapering up to 1mg ed the final week....so thats when i dropped the arimdex, thinking i'd get more benefit from its use within the final 3 weeks.
> 
> Will this be why the sex drive has gone. Do you think adding it back in at 0.5mg eod would get the sex drive back without it affecting its use for the last 3 weeks?


 No need to drop it. Run it all the way through your show and the last three weeks.

You mostly have high E2+tren this leads to zero sex drive and spaghetti dick. You are lucky to not have any gyno/lump formation. What's your test dose again?


----------



## jake87

Are fat burners ie yohimbine safe to use for someone that has anxiety or is prone to panic attacks where the heart is pounding out of the chest?


----------



## ElChapo

jake87 said:


> Are fat burners ie yohimbine safe to use for someone that has anxiety or is prone to panic attacks where the heart is pounding out of the chest?


 Hell no. Yohimbine is used to induce anxiety in research studies, it is one of the reference drugs.

I would tread cautiously with all stimulants, yohimbine most of all.

You don't need fat burners to get lean. I have gotten to 6% without them. They make it faster and more efficient, that's it.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> No need to drop it. Run it all the way through your show and the last three weeks.
> 
> You mostly have high E2+tren this leads to zero sex drive and spaghetti dick. You are lucky to not have any gyno/lump formation. What's your test dose again?


 Thanks buddy, yeah I can definitely tell a difference since dropping the adex and adding tren, I've had no gyno lumps as yet.... but prevention of this was my reasoning for taking it on the first place.

my test dosage is 393mg prop per week, along with 393 tren/393 mast (plus var/winny)

Do you think adding arimidex back in now at 0.5 eod should see the sex drive and noodle d1ck improve?


----------



## jake87

ElChapo said:


> Hell no. Yohimbine is used to induce anxiety in research studies, it is one of the reference drugs.
> 
> I would tread cautiously with all stimulants, yohimbine most of all.
> 
> You don't need fat burners to get lean. I have gotten to 6% without them. They make it faster and more efficient, that's it.


 I never have used stimulants but do suffer from brain fog sometimes pre workout and have two bags of raw yohimbine at home. Will give it a miss, thank you.


----------



## SlinMeister

I love how this guy always shows you how lots of overrated AAS can be destroyed by Test Tren W AI....

Everything true WTF!

@ElChapo how much injectable Mtren a week you would use? For how much time? 7mg? Or 1mg on WO days?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

First off this thread is so valuable to someone like myself who's been researching peds for a short period of time... not even half the way through and learnt alot already, so big up for that.

1: I'm currently 6 weeks tomorrow into a prep blast of... 300teste/300eq/400maste and been using 1mg adex pw (split), everything has been fine up untill now... but the start of this week i incorporated 200mg tren e as I'll be transitioning the tren for the eq, I've noticed a slight decrease in libido, nothing too bad and nips have started to get alittle puffy, should i maybe increase adex to 1.25mg pw or keep adex at 1mg pw and throw in 20mg nolva 1 to 2x pw?... Alternating ai and serm. Btw first time using tren, hence conservative dose.

2: 13 weeks out today and thinking of running 40/50mg of winnie for 4 weeks then stop and run again 6 weeks out, is this too long to run a oral? Maybe throw in some var aswell.


----------



## Dark sim

Great thread, welcome to UKM, keep it up.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thanks buddy, yeah I can definitely tell a difference since dropping the adex and adding tren, I've had no gyno lumps as yet.... but prevention of this was my reasoning for taking it on the first place.
> 
> my test dosage is 393mg prop per week, along with 393 tren/393 mast (plus var/winny)
> 
> Do you think adding arimidex back in now at 0.5 eod should see the sex drive and noodle d1ck improve?


 Yeah, it's most likely your problem. That much test would warrant AI in most people, especially with tren in the mix.


----------



## ElChapo

jake87 said:


> I never have used stimulants but do suffer from brain fog sometimes pre workout and have two bags of raw yohimbine at home. Will give it a miss, thank you.


 Measure very very carefully, .2 mg per kg. It is a great pre-workout and fat burner. You can stack it with caffeine.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I love how this guy always shows you how lots of overrated AAS can be destroyed by Test Tren W AI....
> 
> Everything true WTF!
> 
> @ElChapo how much injectable Mtren a week you would use? For how much time? 7mg? Or 1mg on WO days?


 1-2 mg on workout days or EOD.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> First off this thread is so valuable to someone like myself who's been researching peds for a short period of time... not even half the way through and learnt alot already, so big up for that.
> 
> 1: I'm currently 6 weeks tomorrow into a prep blast of... 300teste/300eq/400maste and been using 1mg adex pw (split), everything has been fine up untill now... but the start of this week i incorporated 200mg tren e as I'll be transitioning the tren for the eq, I've noticed a slight decrease in libido, nothing too bad and nips have started to get alittle puffy, should i maybe increase adex to 1.25mg pw or keep adex at 1mg pw and throw in 20mg nolva 1 to 2x pw?... Alternating ai and serm. Btw first time using tren, hence conservative dose.
> 
> 2: 13 weeks out today and thinking of running 40/50mg of winnie for 4 weeks then stop and run again 6 weeks out, is this too long to run a oral? Maybe throw in some var aswell.


 Try 2 mg per week. Tren with zero E2 can still cause lumps, but E2 has an additive effect, so keep it low.

You can also run Raloxifene 60 mg ED through the cycle to prevent the gyno and stop /reverse the flare up.

Try the 2 mg adex and go from there. Don't panic about the lumps too bad, raloxifene WILL reverse it, especially in the early stages. Add the SERMS if you really want to nip it in the bud.

Nolva x 2 per week won't do anything. It would work well daily or the gyno. Lowers IGF a bit but won't affect your prep since you arent bulking. 20 mg will do the trick.

You are smart to start tren low, the gyno, sex issues, and mental effects are something most people don't see coming.

Not at all, 50 mg for 6 weeks is fine. With TUDCA even better. 250 mg low dose is enough for liver protection. Not necessary though unless running higher dose or longer duration.


----------



## ElChapo

Dark sim said:


> Great thread, welcome to UKM, keep it up.


 You guys have been awesome, thank you.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

In the end the eternal question.....

Let's say that every cycle will include HGH.

1) Do you prefer high test or high anabolics for growth ?

2) Why?

I want to plan my next growth phase and don't want to fail... Test tren W will be there but... High test or not?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> In the end the eternal question.....
> 
> Let's say that every cycle will include HGH.
> 
> 1) Do you prefer high test or high anabolics for growth ?
> 
> 2) Why?
> 
> I want to plan my next growth phase and don't want to fail... Test tren W will be there but... High test or not?


 Both together(high test/high anabolics) are best for mass and strength,but it depends on your goals.

More test usually means higher BP, higher e2 to manage, a lot more water retention independent of E2 levels, etc.

If you are cutting, you are getting maximum benefit from 300 mg of test per week.

If you want to stay dryer and lean bulk, 300 mg test synergizes well with high dose anabolics without the water retention, e2, high bp, etc.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

thanks for all your solid advice! really loving this AMA

have 2 questions

1) i used a pedometer and at work i walk on average 9km ... my heart rate would not be elevated at all or enough to sweat.... could i still count this towards cardio? even though its just walking ?

2) dave palumbo and a couple others have stated never inject quads, muscle is too dense, slow absorption, too many nerves etc etc what is your view on this ? should i avoid pinning quads ?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> thanks for all your solid advice! really loving this AMA
> 
> have 2 questions
> 
> 1) i used a pedometer and at work i walk on average 9km ... my heart rate would not be elevated at all or enough to sweat.... could i still count this towards cardio? even though its just walking ?
> 
> 2) dave palumbo and a couple others have stated never inject quads, muscle is too dense, slow absorption, too many nerves etc etc what is your view on this ? should i avoid pinning quads ?


 1- Yeah, it counts as low intensity cardio.

2- The only truth to that is that quads tend to have more nerves so you're more likely to pin a nerve going in which hurts, there is also slightly higher risk of PIP due to the fact that we use the legs very often. The rest is bullshit.

Quads are fine. Ventrogluteal is the best spot to pin due to lack of nerves and blood vessels.

If you want rapid action, delts have the fastest absorption, followed by quads. Glutes are the slowest. This is due to blood flow in the muscles.

Question everything you hear, more than half of it is bullshit.


----------



## Jordan08

What are your views on SARMS?. Are they a safer option that AAS?. SARMS like ostraine, S4 and RDA 140 are becoming popular more and more. Do you think they are worth?


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

on t3 can it be ran at 50mcg in a cut and 25mcg when on a bulk long term? When I say a bulk I mean 300-500max kcals supruls.

Or is it something which should not be ran long term.

How long after stopping t3 until your own natural is back up and firing as it should be?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ghost.recon said:


> Hey guys. Back with another AMA. Have been away and busy lately.
> 
> I'd like to introduce to you @ElChapo who will be part of AMA 3.0
> 
> El Chapo is a medical professional in the US that specialises as a endocrinology research nurse. He works alongside many various endocrine patients on a daily basis.
> 
> We go back a long way and he is my ONLY go to individual when I need a second opinion on performance enhancing drugs.
> 
> Fire away.


 novorapid flexpen, doe's it have to be kept refrigerated or is room temp out of sunlight okay ?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Try 2 mg per week. Tren with zero E2 can still cause lumps, but E2 has an additive effect, so keep it low.
> 
> You can also run Raloxifene 60 mg ED through the cycle to prevent the gyno and stop /reverse the flare up.
> 
> Try the 2 mg adex and go from there. Don't panic about the lumps too bad, raloxifene WILL reverse it, especially in the early stages. Add the SERMS if you really want to nip it in the bud.
> 
> Nolva x 2 per week won't do anything. It would work well daily or the gyno. Lowers IGF a bit but won't affect your prep since you arent bulking. 20 mg will do the trick.
> 
> You are smart to start tren low, the gyno, sex issues, and mental effects are something most people don't see coming.
> 
> Not at all, 50 mg for 6 weeks is fine. With TUDCA even better. 250 mg low dose is enough for liver protection. Not necessary though unless running higher dose or longer duration.


 Will up the dosage of adex and see how I get on. Last night nips was really puffy but this morning they was tight as a drum... also mrs was getting ready in the mirror for work as I was pinning and couldn't resist but jump on her haha, just goes to show to take each day as it comes.

Borrowed a mate my ralox (school boy error) which I had ready for tren, but decided to start tren few weeks early, now waiting for some to be back in stock.

Second week of tren e today and the last 3 nights I've woken covered in sweat, surley its alittle too early for the tren to be doing its magic?

So 10ish weeks of winnie at 50mg ed on top of current stack won't be overkill as long as I'm using tudca and nac along side?

Sorry last one lol... 13 weeks till show and running 300teste/200trene/400mast and going to use 3ius gh ed in a few weeks (got about a months worth)... is there anything else I should consider to add Or change dosages? Thinking of increasing tren and mast if tren treats me well... Btw I've competed natural for 2 years and got into reasonably good condition through diet. This is my second cycle.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Every time I inject an area with scar tissue , ie my right glute (abused over the years)
> 
> I seem to get tren cough, whether it be test, deca or tren.
> 
> It's definitely scar tissue related as I never get that when I rotate
> 
> Any ideas ?


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Test/mast 500 mg-1 g each+ AI. Great for strength and tissue building. Diet/training will dictate results, they all work. This is one if fairly mild in terms of toxicity but may exacerbate MPB/acne/BPH in susceptible individuals. Mast will enhance the strength gains and libido of the test, keep you dryer and safe from gyno with AI. You could switch mast for DHB. I have not used it yet, but it should have a similar effect with better vascularity and lean gains, on paper and from what friends of mine have experienced. I am a fan of DHTs and tren.


 Uhm Test + DHB + AI.... Atm i am on 500 Test (E+P) 400 TrenE 400 DHB.

Will figure out what will do


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What are your views on SARMS?. Are they a safer option that AAS?. SARMS like ostraine, S4 and RDA 140 are becoming popular more and more. Do you think they are worth?


 They have potential but there isn't a lot of data out there about them yet. From what i have read here and there, they can still shut you down, which makes sense if they bind to AR receptors the body will sense some degree of agonism and shut down endogenous production.

AAS are very safe when used responsibly, the only obvious risk is infertility and disruption of the HPTA. Things like impaired lipid profile, high blood pressure, and liver function are transient issues that go away with discontinuing the hormones and half the time aren't even an issue with low-moderate dosages. The dangers are greatly overstated.

Look at Arnold, he knocked up an older cleaning lady after using AAS since he was 15 years old at the age at the age of +60 whatever. He has something like 4-5 kids. Sly Stallone has kids too and he's in great shape. I am sure these guys have ran into issues here and there and they might not be in perfect health, but if someone can blast a ton of AAS for decades and still be in pretty good condition. Do you think a recreational bodybuilder taking low-moderate doses for a couple of weeks at a time is really going to be at that high a risk for health complications?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> on t3 can it be ran at 50mcg in a cut and 25mcg when on a bulk long term? When I say a bulk I mean 300-500max kcals supruls.
> 
> Or is it something which should not be ran long term.
> 
> How long after stopping t3 until your own natural is back up and firing as it should be?


 T3 can be ran as long as you want. The thyroid axis does not shut down permanently.

4-6 weeks will have your thyroid back in action. You will feel like dog s**t until then as you will be running on very low levels of thyroid hormone which are essential for mood, metabolism, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> novorapid flexpen, doe's it have to be kept refrigerated or is room temp out of sunlight okay ?


 Room temp will be fine. Higher temps will reduce potency over time.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> T3 can be ran as long as you want. The thyroid axis does not shut down permanently.
> 
> 4-6 weeks will have your thyroid back in action. You will feel like dog s**t until then as you will be running on very low levels of thyroid hormone which are essential for mood, metabolism, etc.


 So when finished my cut and stopping t3 should have eat maintenance for a month before going into a supruls to add size


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Will up the dosage of adex and see how I get on. Last night nips was really puffy but this morning they was tight as a drum... also mrs was getting ready in the mirror for work as I was pinning and couldn't resist but jump on her haha, just goes to show to take each day as it comes.
> 
> Borrowed a mate my ralox (school boy error) which I had ready for tren, but decided to start tren few weeks early, now waiting for some to be back in stock.
> 
> Second week of tren e today and the last 3 nights I've woken covered in sweat, surley its alittle too early for the tren to be doing its magic?
> 
> So 10ish weeks of winnie at 50mg ed on top of current stack won't be overkill as long as I'm using tudca and nac along side?
> 
> Sorry last one lol... 13 weeks till show and running 300teste/200trene/400mast and going to use 3ius gh ed in a few weeks (got about a months worth)... is there anything else I should consider to add Or change dosages? Thinking of increasing tren and mast if tren treats me well... Btw I've competed natural for 2 years and got into reasonably good condition through diet. This is my second cycle.


 You can start feeling tren pretty soon, so that's not too odd. 10 weeks winnie 50 mg+tudca/NAC you will be fine. There are guys running this s**t at 100 mg ED for months, no TUDCA. I'm sure their s**t is f**ked up they aren't dead. The liver is very good at repairing itself too.

The stack looks fine, keep it simple and focus on your diet and training. A good natural base will take you far when you start using AAS, so that's great.


----------



## ElChapo

Your issue might be injecting into lymph/vascular tissue, it tends to feel like "scar tissue" but i am not sure. Just rotate your sites.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> So when finished my cut and stopping t3 should have eat maintenance for a month before going into a supruls to add size


 It's usually good idea. It really depends on how lean you are after your cut. Your TDEE will be much lower at <10% body fat due to less circulating leptin.

Some people like to "reverse diet" which is not a bad idea either. Just know, that if you are 6-9% and jump back into your old maintenance, you will gain some fat as this will no longer be maintenance calories for your body, but a surplus.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Your issue might be injecting into lymph/vascular tissue, it tends to feel like "scar tissue" but i am not sure. Just rotate your sites.


 okay cool, I always rotate now any how.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> okay cool, I always rotate now any how.


 If you aren't using ventrogluteal yet, start now. It is the best injection site by far and is the currently recommended injection site in medicine. It can hold 3-5 mL, and PIP will be nonexistent due to the fact that the ventrogluteal muscle is not used very often and the site has very little amount of nerves.

Ventroglute and lateral delts are my personal go-to injection sites. I always use lateral delts for my patients.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> If you aren't using ventrogluteal yet, start now. It is the best injection site by far and is the currently recommended injection site in medicine. It can hold 3-5 mL, and PIP will be nonexistent due to the fact that the ventrogluteal muscle is not used very often and the site has very little amount of nerves.


 okay perfect, thank you


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> If you aren't using ventrogluteal yet, start now. It is the best injection site by far and is the currently recommended injection site in medicine. It can hold 3-5 mL, and PIP will be nonexistent due to the fact that the ventrogluteal muscle is not used very often and the site has very little amount of nerves.
> 
> Ventroglute and lateral delts are my personal go-to injection sites. I always use lateral delts for my patients.


 I use lateral deltoid shots a lot too but ventro I cant seem to find it and mostly hit the bit at top of hip flexor.

Any tips on the ventro please ?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Second that ^^ Any tips on finding your ventro glute would be appreciated. Most of the videos and pictures online are BS and any time I have tried to replicate them it has not been pleasant (suggesting I am not in the VG, as its supposed to be devoid of nerves!!)


----------



## S123

@ElChapo here's the example; a guy is 12% bodyfat and is looking to take tren/test/mast, tren at 100mg ed, test at 50mg EOD and masteron at 50mg ED and t3 at 50mcg. Let's say this guy wants to lose 4% bodyfat in the quickest time possible, so he has a 1500 calorie deficit, is there only a certain amount of fat your body can lose or will it still run as an effective fat burning machine?


----------



## ForeignGuy

Hi everybody and thanks to @ElChapo for sharing your knowledge.

I'm running a 12 weeker consisting in:

750mg test E

400mg tren E

300mg mast P

1.25mg letrozole EOD

I'm at the beginning of the 4th week and since the 2nd week i've started to feel low sex drive,not a complete lack of interest in sex but i struggle to mantain the erection during sex.So i included pramipexole 0.52 pre bed and initially thing seemed to get better,but now my sex drive i'ts gone again.

What could be? maybe my E2 crashed due to an excessive dosage of letro?

Thanks in advance

cheers


----------



## SlinMeister

S123 said:


> @ElChapo here's the example; a guy is 12% bodyfat and is looking to take tren/test/mast, tren at 100mg ed, test at 50mg EOD and masteron at 50mg ED and t3 at 50mcg. Let's say this guy wants to lose 4% bodyfat in the quickest time possible, so he has a 1500 calorie deficit, is there only a certain amount of fat your body can lose or will it still run as an effective fat burning machine?


 Using Tren and staying on such low cals is asking for issues....

If you are looking for just a fast fat loss run 300 TestE + DNP + EC + T3 and be ready to feel like s**t.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> I use lateral deltoid shots a lot too but ventro I cant seem to find it and mostly hit the bit at top of hip flexor.
> 
> Any tips on the ventro please ?


 Yeah, sometimes you can flex it if you have the mind to muscle connection and find it that way.

Otherwise, stand straight, raise your right leg sideways away from your left leg, this will flex your right ventroglute.

I know what you mean by the top of the hip flexor, you need to go a bit lower. It's a nice chunk of meat and you will know it once you find it. If you are higher body fat or not well muscled, it will be harder to find.



http://imgur.com/uUB8U


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo here's the example; a guy is 12% bodyfat and is looking to take tren/test/mast, tren at 100mg ed, test at 50mg EOD and masteron at 50mg ED and t3 at 50mcg. Let's say this guy wants to lose 4% bodyfat in the quickest time possible, so he has a 1500 calorie deficit, is there only a certain amount of fat your body can lose or will it still run as an effective fat burning machine?


 I would hope this guy has tried tren before at a lower dosage ie. 300 mg per week max to assess tolerance for gyno and mental side effects.

If you want to shred fat as fast as possible in a fairly safe manner, my recommended protocol is 250 mg DNP daily+ephedrine or yohimbine. 30% caloric deficit. 4 weeks.

250 mg DNP will have low sides/health risk. Ephedrine will accelerate fat loss further and blunt appetite as well as help overcome DNP induced lethargy. Once you reach 10% bodyfat, switch out ephedrine for yohimbine to accelerate stubborn fat deposit lipolysis. Do this for 4 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

ForeignGuy said:


> Hi everybody and thanks to @ElChapo for sharing your knowledge.
> 
> I'm running a 12 weeker consisting in:
> 
> 750mg test E
> 
> 400mg tren E
> 
> 300mg mast P
> 
> 1.25mg letrozole EOD
> 
> I'm at the beginning of the 4th week and since the 2nd week i've started to feel low sex drive,not a complete lack of interest in sex but i struggle to mantain the erection during sex.So i included pramipexole 0.52 pre bed and initially thing seemed to get better,but now my sex drive i'ts gone again.
> 
> What could be? maybe my E2 crashed due to an excessive dosage of letro?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> cheers


 You can blame the tren, or it may be the E2. This is why higher test with tren makes sides harder to manage because there are many variables that need to be controlled. That dose of letrozole is reasonable, but we don't know how much you need because everyone aromatizes differently.

Best thing to do is pop viagra/cialis until you get it straightened out or finish your cycle. Tren can affect libido and erections, this effect can be compounded by unmanaged E2, and letrozole itself is known to cause libido/ED issues, so there are many variables to work with here.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Using Tren and staying on such low cals is asking for issues....
> 
> If you are looking for just a fast fat loss run 300 TestE + DNP + EC + T3 and be ready to feel like s**t.


 Trenbolone excels at preserving muscle mass with low calories, so there is no issue there. Low calories won't affect his response to tren. I would actually recommend some trenbolone in a fat loss stack.


----------



## ForeignGuy

ElChapo said:


> You can blame the tren, or it may be the E2. This is why higher test with tren makes sides harder to manage because there are many variables that need to be controlled. That dose of letrozole is reasonable, but we don't know how much you need because everyone aromatizes differently.
> 
> Best thing to do is pop viagra/cialis until you get it straightened out or finish your cycle. Tren can affect libido and erections, this effect can be compounded by unmanaged E2, and letrozole itself is known to cause libido/ED issues, so there are many variables to work with here.


 Thank you El Chapo,i dont have any low estro related sides(especially stiff joints,i suffer from it),and considering that im on a low carb,low sodium diet and i've a sligtly bloated low belly,i think i'm upping letro dosing..


----------



## ElChapo

ForeignGuy said:


> Thank you El Chapo,i dont have any low estro related sides(especially stiff joints,i suffer from it),and considering that im on a low carb,low sodium diet and i've a sligtly bloated low belly,i think i'm upping letro dosing..


 Go for it, if you are cutting that can cause mood and libido issues. Note that low carb diets can also lead to water retention due to cortisol.

Is this a bulk or a cut?


----------



## ForeignGuy

ElChapo said:


> Go for it, if you are cutting that can cause mood and libido issues. Note that low carb diets can also lead to water retention due to cortisol.
> 
> Is this a bulk or a cut?


 i'm cutting 500kcal under tde,and i forgot to say that i'm also using gh frag 176-192 pre cardio,on empty stomach 3xWeek;could affect prolactin level like others peptides?

regarding cortisol,may 7-keto help?


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, sometimes you can flex it if you have the mind to muscle connection and find it that way.
> 
> Otherwise, stand straight, raise your right leg sideways away from your left leg, this will flex your right ventroglute.
> 
> I know what you mean by the top of the hip flexor, you need to go a bit lower. It's a nice chunk of meat and you will know it once you find it. If you are higher body fat or not well muscled, it will be harder to find.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/uUB8U


 Im not lean by most peoples standards on here im about 14% I can see the raised muscle it just feels wrong injecting there and I worry I might hit a hip lol.

Thank you for your reply I shall try this again on my next shot on Wednesday :thumb


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> I would hope this guy has tried tren before at a lower dosage ie. 300 mg per week max to assess tolerance for gyno and mental side effects.
> 
> If you want to shred fat as fast as possible in a fairly safe manner, my recommended protocol is 250 mg DNP daily+ephedrine or yohimbine. 30% caloric deficit. 4 weeks.
> 
> 250 mg DNP will have low sides/health risk. Ephedrine will accelerate fat loss further and blunt appetite as well as help overcome DNP induced lethargy. Once you reach 10% bodyfat, switch out ephedrine for yohimbine to accelerate stubborn fat deposit lipolysis. Do this for 4 weeks.


 Which lab does good eph at the minute?

Which dose do you recommend and would you run it for a few weeks post DNP


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Trenbolone excels at preserving muscle mass with low calories, so there is no issue there. Low calories won't affect his response to tren. I would actually recommend some trenbolone in a fat loss stack.


 This.

I've been on silly low calories for a while and using tren and I feel fine. 14st 5lbs - 11st 12lbs since March. 35lbs?


----------



## ElChapo

ForeignGuy said:


> i'm cutting 500kcal under tde,and i forgot to say that i'm also using gh frag 176-192 pre cardio,on empty stomach 3xWeek;could affect prolactin level like others peptides?
> 
> regarding cortisol,may 7-keto help?


 Keep it simple, focus on your deficit. Maintain strength through your cut. All these peptides, etc are unnecessary.

Cortisol; up your carbs. Low carbs = flat and weaker muscle, shittier mood, drop in metabolism secondary to decrease in leptin levels.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Im not lean by most peoples standards on here im about 14% I can see the raised muscle it just feels wrong injecting there and I worry I might hit a hip lol.
> 
> Thank you for your reply I shall try this again on my next shot on Wednesday :thumb


 Try a bit lower, i had similar issues injecting to high. Try to find the meatier part in the middle. It should be a bit lower than you would think. Ventroglute is how i introduced my fiancee to pinning.

She's had a phobia of needles all her life, but ventroglute+30 gauge 5/16th pins= EZ mode. You literally feel nothing.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Which lab does good eph at the minute?
> 
> Which dose do you recommend and would you run it for a few weeks post DNP


 Living in the USA, ephedrine is available OTC as bronkaid, so i never had to go UGL. I cut without stims now a days.

Starter dose is 20 mg with 200 mg caffeine. You can dose x 3 per day. I never needed more than once daily dosing.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Try a bit lower, i had similar issues injecting to high. Try to find the meatier part in the middle. It should be a bit lower than you would think. Ventroglute is how i introduced my fiancee to pinning.
> 
> She's had a phobia of needles all her life, but ventroglute+30 gauge 5/16th pins= EZ mode. You literally feel nothing.


 You are right I have been going too high thanks for this looking forward to Wednesdays jab now :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> You are right I have been going too high thanks for this looking forward to Wednesdays jab now :thumb


 I promise you will love ventroglute, most people have a hard time finding it at first.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> I promise you will love ventroglute, most people have a hard time finding it at first.


 Cool man I love my delts and also do chest but ventro now I know proper place will be great.


----------



## ElChapo

I also like chest, many are squeamish about it but it offers a ton of control and comfort when pinning. Between delts, chest, ventro and quads i have 8 comfortable spots to pin per week.


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> I also like chest, many are squeamish about it but it offers a ton of control and comfort when pinning. Between delts, chest, ventro and quads i have 8 comfortable spots to pin per week.


 Would an orange pin be fine for ventricular for those of us who went ripped?


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Would an orange pin be fine for ventricular for those of us who went ripped?


 What's the size of the needle? 1.5 inches will penetrate even the more rotund athletes/bodybuilders.

I can get away with 5/16th inches now, most people will be fine with 1 inch.


----------



## ForeignGuy

ElChapo said:


> Keep it simple, focus on your deficit. Maintain strength through your cut. All these peptides, etc are unnecessary.
> 
> Cortisol; up your carbs. Low carbs = flat and weaker muscle, shittier mood, drop in metabolism secondary to decrease in leptin levels.


 Thank you Very much ElChapo

All the best


----------



## ElChapo

ForeignGuy said:


> Thank you Very much ElChapo
> 
> All the best


 Anytime brother


----------



## jake87

ElChapo said:


> Measure very very carefully, .2 mg per kg. It is a great pre-workout and fat burner. You can stack it with caffeine.


 I have to venture back to this again after having a think about it today. How are these stimulants affected used alongside propranolol? I notice generally it gives me a much shallower heart rate and doesn't raise as much as it normally would when walking for example


----------



## ElChapo

jake87 said:


> I have to venture back to this again after having a think about it today. How are these stimulants affected used alongside propranolol? I notice generally it gives me a much shallower heart rate and doesn't raise as much as it normally would when walking for example


 Propranolol and stimulants negate each other's effects. If you have a history of high BP, tread cautiously with anything like clen, ephedrine, yohimbine etc.

Fortunately, DNP is very effective and uses a different mechanism of action to enhance fat loss that will not affect BP and heart rate.

You are better off foregoing the stimulants and using DNP.


----------



## jake87

ElChapo said:


> Propranolol and stimulants negate each other's effects. If you have a history of high BP, tread cautiously with anything like clen, ephedrine, yohimbine etc.
> 
> Fortunately, DNP is very effective and uses a different mechanism of action to enhance fat loss that will not affect BP and heart rate.
> 
> You are better off foregoing the stimulants and using DNP.


 It's not generally for high blood pressure more so the effects it has to reduce adrenaline release and keep calm in certain circumstances.


----------



## ElChapo

jake87 said:


> It's not generally for high blood pressure more so the effects it has to reduce adrenaline release and keep calm in certain circumstances.


 Yohimbine will cause anxiety in people prone to it, almost guaranteed. Don't use it and give it away if you are prone.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Propranolol and stimulants negate each other's effects. If you have a history of high BP, tread cautiously with anything like clen, ephedrine, yohimbine etc.
> 
> Fortunately, DNP is very effective and uses a different mechanism of action to enhance fat loss that will not affect BP and heart rate.
> 
> You are better off foregoing the stimulants and using DNP.


 Is it true DNP stops ATP so forces the body to use fat stores for energy in the form of heat ?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Is it true DNP stops ATP so forces the body to use fat stores for energy in the form of heat ?


 It makes ATP production less efficient, making the body waste energy as heat.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> It makes ATP production less efficient, making the body waste energy as heat.


 Cool so what I read was just about right.

Knowledge is everything :thumbup1:


----------



## 18650

It's been suggested that the effective of AAS diminish over time, that's why cycling is more effective.

I read an article about a method termed the 'slingshot' methodology that involves an eight week blast followed a two week cruise that's followed by another eight week blast.

The author stated that body has mechanisms that attempt to overcome extreme gains in muscle mass, that's why blasting on and off is more effective.

In this AMA you've stated that the longer you're on cycle, the more you'll gain, (health issues aside). I myself experience the best gains during the first eight weeks of a blast. As I understood it we can either increase dosages or introduce other drugs to overcome this, after reading this thread am I completely wrong and staying on for as long as possible does deliver the most gains?

Many thanks.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo HI mate great thread appreicate the knowledge you're sharing.

I have been B + C for 2 years, (had a period of 6 months no training where i just ran 100mg test pw).

I generally always run low doses, am currently "blasting" 150mg test, 300mg tren e and 20mg EPI, 25mcg t3, whilst cutting, which is going well.

You have talked about the heart and that with sufficient supps (cialis etc) and lots of cardio, you should not have any worries.

My concern is I have been on amitriptyline 25mg for 6 months daily and 800mg metaxlone (pre workout) for tension headaches. I have read literature that ami in particular can have negative cardiac effects long term.

Do you have any comments or further suggestions on staying careful? or any great worries?

If I stick to low bf, good cardio, good sups with a generally health diet, I shouldn't be too worried about negative long term cardiac effects? Getting a tad paranoid about it.

Plan to get an ECG when I am back from travelling in a few months anyhow, but any comments/advice would be greatly appreciated.

My bp is around 130-140/70-80 and rhr 70ish I think.

Recently had bloods which came back all fine except horrid hdl/ldl (due to tren of course), which adds to it all.

Thanks fella!


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> It's been suggested that the effective of AAS diminish over time, that's why cycling is more effective.
> 
> I read an article about a method termed the 'slingshot' methodology that involves an eight week blast followed a two week cruise that's followed by another eight week blast.
> 
> The author stated that body has mechanisms that attempt to overcome extreme gains in muscle mass, that's why blasting on and off is more effective.
> 
> In this AMA you've stated that the longer you're on cycle, the more you'll gain, (health issues aside). I myself experience the best gains during the first eight weeks of a blast. As I understood it we can either increase dosages or introduce other drugs to overcome this, after reading this thread am I completely wrong and staying on for as long as possible does deliver the most gains?
> 
> Many thanks.


 You misunderstood my post, i would never suggest increasing dosages or introducing drugs as a way to overcome a plateau. Gains should be maximized from diet and traning. A caloric surplus and progressive overload will always be the main factor in your gains, drugs just allow you to recover faster and build muscle quicker, to a higher degree than possible naturally.

8-12 weeks is fine with a cycle, and usually when you will see the most effects, however, most people's gains stop because they rely on initial gains from the androgens and don't continue pushing their weights/reps to the next level.

Blast/cruise with 8-12 weeks for blasts is awesome, i just don't want people to think that it has to stop at 12 weeks because "gains are slowing down". You can easily see linear progression in gains for up to 6-12 months in lean tissue gain and strength after that initial 12 weeks albeit at a slower rate than that initial 12 weeks. Keep the momentum going can work very well for some people, others prefer to blast in 8-12 weeks intervals. Both methods work great.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo HI mate great thread appreicate the knowledge you're sharing.
> 
> I have been B + C for 2 years, (had a period of 6 months no training where i just ran 100mg test pw).
> 
> I generally always run low doses, am currently "blasting" 150mg test, 300mg tren e and 20mg EPI, 25mcg t3, whilst cutting, which is going well.
> 
> You have talked about the heart and that with sufficient supps (cialis etc) and lots of cardio, you should not have any worries.
> 
> My concern is I have been on amitriptyline 25mg for 6 months daily and 800mg metaxlone (pre workout) for tension headaches. I have read literature that ami in particular can have negative cardiac effects long term.
> 
> Do you have any comments or further suggestions on staying careful? or any great worries?
> 
> If I stick to low bf, good cardio, good sups with a generally health diet, I shouldn't be too worried about negative long term cardiac effects? Getting a tad paranoid about it.
> 
> Plan to get an ECG when I am back from travelling in a few months anyhow, but any comments/advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> My bp is around 130-140/70-80 and rhr 70ish I think.
> 
> Recently had bloods which came back all fine except horrid hdl/ldl (due to tren of course), which adds to it all.
> 
> Thanks fella!


 You will be fine, what's your cruise dose and length and what's your BP on it?

Amitriptyline effects on heart health are mediated by it's effect on norepinephrine. Keep your BP and HR in a good place, stay lean and do regular cardio and you will be perfectly fine.

Remember, these people with the increased risk of heart problems are usually sedentary, overweight individuals. You do use AAS which is another compounding factor, so i would keep close eye on your heart vitals and stay as fit as possible. Alternatively, you can look into another anti-depressant with a different mechanism of action.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> You misunderstood my post, i would never suggest increasing dosages or introducing drugs as a way to overcome a plateau. Gains should be maximized from diet and traning. A caloric surplus and progressive overload will always be the main factor in your gains, drugs just allow you to recover faster and build muscle quicker, to a higher degree than possible naturally.
> 
> 8-12 weeks is fine with a cycle, and usually when you will see the most effects, however, most people's gains stop because they rely on initial gains from the androgens and don't continue pushing their weights/reps to the next level.
> 
> Blast/cruise with 8-12 weeks for blasts is awesome, i just don't want people to think that it has to stop at 12 weeks because "gains are slowing down". You can easily see linear progression in gains for up to 6-12 months in lean tissue gain and strength after that initial 12 weeks albeit at a slower rate than that initial 12 weeks. Keep the momentum going can work very well for some people, others prefer to blast in 8-12 weeks intervals. Both methods work great.


 Thank you so much ElChapo. You're a legend around these parts.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> You will be fine, what's your cruise dose and length and what's your BP on it?
> 
> Amitriptyline effects on heart health are mediated by it's effect on norepinephrine. Keep your BP and HR in a good place, stay lean and do regular cardio and you will be perfectly fine.
> 
> Remember, these people with the increased risk of heart problems are usually sedentary, overweight individuals. You do use AAS which is another compounding factor, so i would keep close eye on your heart vitals and stay as fit as possible. Alternatively, you can look into another anti-depressant with a different mechanism of action.


 Thanks bud

Cruise is 100mg-125mg week test puts me up top normal range.

I go for 3 months blast 3 months cruise usually, although this blast will be 5 months as I've just started training again after 6 months on a cruise non training and want to make the most of it.

BP is usually like sub 120/70 or less when cruising if I recall from last time although that was not much cardio (I've now implemented a lot more).

im aiming to get sub 10% and then stay between tjat and at most 15%. I'm probably 13-14% atm.

im sure you've said a billion times, is there an optimal amount?

i do 20-25 mins on the step master at around 150-160 heart rate. Burns about 400 cals, apparently. I would say it's Inbetween liss and HITT.

4-6x a week with two swimming sessions as well.

Appreciate it mate cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thanks bud
> 
> Cruise is 100mg-125mg week test puts me up top normal range.
> 
> I go for 3 months blast 3 months cruise usually, although this blast will be 5 months as I've just started training again after 6 months on a cruise non training and want to make the most of it.
> 
> BP is usually like sub 120/70 or less when cruising if I recall from last time although that was not much cardio (I've now implemented a lot more).
> 
> im aiming to get sub 10% and then stay between tjat and at most 15%. I'm probably 13-14% atm.
> 
> im sure you've said a billion times, is there an optimal amount?
> 
> i do 20-25 mins on the step master at around 150-160 heart rate. Burns about 400 cals, apparently. I would say it's Inbetween liss and HITT.
> 
> 4-6x a week with two swimming sessions as well.
> 
> Appreciate it mate cheers.


 Beautiful, all the above looks great.

For cardio, my recommendation is to develop your own routine you can enjoy. Too many guys and women burn themselves out on hamster style treadmill workouts and arent consistent with their training.

The amount of cardio needed to reap the therapeutic effects on health, mood and performance will vary on the intensity of the exercise. 12-25 minutes of HIIT x 2- x 4 per week is plenty. LISS/low intensity 45-60 minutes.

I favor muay thai, submission wrestling, jump roping and walking. Just be creative and have fun.

My personal routine is 3 x 5 minute rounds of hard jump roping. 1 minute rest in between. HR averages 170-200 BPM. Then i walk at a pace that keeps me around 130 BPM for 30 minutes. Usually read or listen to music.

I do the above 3 x per week or 1 hour of muay thai/boxing/BJJ. My resting heart rate is always under 60, BP averages 100/60 even on tren.

Just to give you an example^


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Beautiful, all the above looks great.
> 
> For cardio, my recommendation is to develop your own routine you can enjoy. Too many guys and women burn themselves out on hamster style treadmill workouts and arent consistent with their training.
> 
> The amount of cardio needed to reap the therapeutic effects on health, mood and performance will vary on the intensity of the exercise. 12-25 minutes of HIIT x 2- x 4 per week is plenty. LISS/low intensity 45-60 minutes.
> 
> I favor muay thai, submission wrestling, jump roping and walking. Just be creative and have fun.
> 
> My personal routine is 3 x 5 minute rounds of hard jump roping. 1 minute rest in between. HR averages 170-200 BPM. Then i walk at a pace that keeps me around 130 BPM for 30 minutes. Usually read or listen to music.
> 
> I do the above 3 x per week or 1 hour of muay thai/boxing/BJJ. My resting heart rate is always under 60, BP averages 100/60 even on tren.
> 
> Just to give you an example^


 If we keep calorie burning motive of cardio aside, if one is solely doing it for HR and BP purpose. How you see doing 20 Minutes of steady state cardio where heart rate stays somewhere around 140-160, 4 times a week after weights?


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> They have potential but there isn't a lot of data out there about them yet. From what i have read here and there, they can still shut you down, which makes sense if they bind to AR receptors the body will sense some degree of agonism and shut down endogenous production.
> 
> AAS are very safe when used responsibly, the only obvious risk is infertility and disruption of the HPTA. Things like impaired lipid profile, high blood pressure, and liver function are transient issues that go away with discontinuing the hormones and half the time aren't even an issue with low-moderate dosages. The dangers are greatly overstated.
> 
> Look at Arnold, he knocked up an older cleaning lady after using AAS since he was 15 years old at the age at the age of +60 whatever. He has something like 4-5 kids. Sly Stallone has kids too and he's in great shape. I am sure these guys have ran into issues here and there and they might not be in perfect health, but if someone can blast a ton of AAS for decades and still be in pretty good condition. Do you think a recreational bodybuilder taking low-moderate doses for a couple of weeks at a time is really going to be at that high a risk for health complications?


 Great. Thanks a lot. In addition, lets say instead of doing 12 weekers, someone is doing B&C where even Blast consists of very moderate dosages(Lets say, always stay near around 750Mg and focus on diet and training whenever doing the blast), what all type of health test you recommend undergoing regularly?.


----------



## RRSUK

@ElChapo I've never suffered from gyno and any blood tests on and off cycle have always shown my e2 in range. Even when running relatively high doses of test (800mg/week)

It is slightly higher while on but like I say still within range.

This is without running any AI.

Is this something to worry about or am I just lucky?


----------



## stewedw

Jatin Bhatia said:


> If we keep calorie burning motive of cardio aside, if one is solely doing it for HR and BP purpose. How you see doing 20 Minutes of steady state cardio where heart rate stays somewhere around 140-160, 4 times a week after weights?


 Sscv would have your heart rate 110-130bpm mate. Any higher isny sscv. Essentially if you are out of breath and can't hold a conversation then you are not doing sscv. (60-75% max hr to hit fat is what's usually considered sscv


----------



## Jordan08

stewedw said:


> Sscv would have your heart rate 110-130bpm mate. Any higher isny sscv. Essentially if you are out of breath and can't hold a conversation then you are not doing sscv. (60-75% max hr to hit fat is what's usually considered sscv


 SSCV means steady state, I believe it has nothing to do with heart rate. Types of cardio intensity are LISS, medium intensity (which I am talking about), HIIT. So, basically I am doing Steady state cardio at medium intensity.


----------



## stewedw

So I suppose the question should be "if doing sscv for health reasons, what's the best intensity/heart rate"?

I do mine at 120bpm as it can be done all day long, hits fat and the longer I do it (number of weeks etc) the lower my heart rate goes and be fitter I get. I wouldn't know of yours is more favourable than mine for health etc


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo Dostinex can help with mind sides from Tren?

@ghost.recon was saying that on Tren you need an SSRI to avoid sides....

Probably that mind sides from Tren are correlated with Prolactine? Never had issues with Prolactine until 1g of Tren A.... But after a while had issues falling asleep...


----------



## gymfreak2010

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo Dostinex can help with mind sides from Tren?
> 
> @ghost.recon was saying that on Tren you need an SSRI to avoid sides....
> 
> Probably that mind sides from Tren are correlated with Prolactine? Never had issues with Prolactine until 1g of Tren A.... But after a while had issues falling asleep...


 1g of tren, not surprised you had issues falling asleep mate lol


----------



## swole troll

best compounds to use in wound healing?

general question but in my particular case having glands removed in a few weeks and want to be back in the gym asap

already on growth, peps, mk677 and bromelain


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Last short question please mate and I'll let you get on with everyone else!

Going to thailand for 4 weeks soon (currently on 150mg test E 300mg tren E).

I am planning on pinning 1g of test undeconate the day before i go in addition to maybe 300-500mg test.

That should comfortable see me through the month right? perhaps a small dip at the end but I have gone for nearly 3 weeks ok just from a 500mg test jab.

I will pop a decent dose of AI as well then to bring it down, so it gradually rises, and can get tamoxifen out there if needed (if AI rises nips start itching etc).


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Try a bit lower, i had similar issues injecting to high. Try to find the meatier part in the middle. It should be a bit lower than you would think. Ventroglute is how i introduced my fiancee to pinning.
> 
> She's had a phobia of needles all her life, but ventroglute+30 gauge 5/16th pins= EZ mode. You literally feel nothing.


 I went in for the plundge and did ventro lastnight, half inch 29g insulin needle. As you say didnt feel a thing, until today ofcoarse. You could swear ive been smashed with a cricket bat. You mentioned no nerves in that area so is it possible i may have gone to high?

Cheers @ElChapo


----------



## Abc987

bornagod said:


> I went in for the plundge and did ventro lastnight, half inch 29g insulin needle. As you say didnt feel a thing, until today ofcoarse. You could swear ive been smashed with a cricket bat. You mentioned no nerves in that area so is it possible i may have gone to high?
> 
> Cheers @ElChapo


 It'll be because it's a new site, no?


----------



## bornagod

Abc987 said:


> It'll be because it's a new site, no?


 Thought as much bit just wanted to check. Maybe should have gone for .5ml instead of 1 whole ml lol


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Thank you for the awesome info re ventroglute.

Last question: do you pin this sat down? Might seem silly but I want to get it right. I plan to use a slin needle to do it.

Reckon this will be deep enough (assuming low enough body fat): https://www.medisave.co.uk/bd-microfine-05ml-insulin-syringe-030mm-30g-8mm-x-200-p-101101.html

Thanks!!!!!!


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo Is the "waiting before hgh" a myth ? I know top bodybuilders who dont ****in care about it


----------



## kessler

@ElChapo

Sorry for crossposting, but I got little response on the other thread and this seems to be the right place.

Just got my blood test back and worried about raised ALT and Cholesterol levels, and low (but within range) Testosterone.

I ended my Test E 500mg/Oxy 50mg, 4 weeks, 4 months ago. did a 2 month Ostarine cycle afterwards which ended a few weeks ago.

What ALT levels are acceptable for someone using gear and shall I aim to get it within normal range before my next cycle (Test/Deca, no orals)?

Here is the full test - any feedback appreciated:


----------



## SlinMeister

gymfreak2010 said:


> 1g of tren, not surprised you had issues falling asleep mate lol


 Atm i use max 500 TrenA....

In these days I am on just 300 TestE 400 Tren E and 400 DHB...

But insomnia is hitting a bit..


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> If we keep calorie burning motive of cardio aside, if one is solely doing it for HR and BP purpose. How you see doing 20 Minutes of steady state cardio where heart rate stays somewhere around 140-160, 4 times a week after weights?


 It will help. True HIIT is the best and fastest at causing metabolic adaptation to exercise.

HIIT trains the anaerobic and aerobic systems, this usually has a greater effect increasing work capacity for lifting and other activities.

What you are doing is still excellent. some guys favor HIIT, LISS or something in between.

LISS is good for saving energy and hunger on a cut or when strictly saving up energy for strength.

HIIT takes less time and has a hunger blunting effect as well, but the intensity required puts many people off and others think they are doing "hiit" but the intensity is not there.

The medium cardio intensity, like jogging is usually the worst in terms of hunger and affecting workouts, this is the type i stay away from personally.

Rememer, lifting weights also trains the cardiovascular system, and makes the heart stronger and more efficient.


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo. Do/can any steroids cause growth of facial bones/structure? If so, which ones _could _? I have heard tren being mentioned several times in this respect.

Thanks! You're a top bloke.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Great. Thanks a lot. In addition, lets say instead of doing 12 weekers, someone is doing B&C where even Blast consists of very moderate dosages(Lets say, always stay near around 750Mg and focus on diet and training whenever doing the blast), what all type of health test you recommend undergoing regularly?.


 Vital signs will give you more data on what's going on than blood work most of the time. BP/HR, keep these at a reasonable range as they will destroy your organs over time, irreversibly.

liver enzymes wont be affect most of the time unless traing orals or tren.

Lipid panel will be f**ked on tren and winstrol.

Hematocrit/hemoglobin may be raised from anabolics like test, deca, eq, etc.

These all go away when you go back down to cruise, as long as you limit your time there,

you will be fine, especially if you are staying healthy in terms of body fat percentage, cardiovascular exercise, recreational drug use including alcohol, sleep, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

RRSUK said:


> @ElChapo I've never suffered from gyno and any blood tests on and off cycle have always shown my e2 in range. Even when running relatively high doses of test (800mg/week)
> 
> It is slightly higher while on but like I say still within range.
> 
> This is without running any AI.
> 
> Is this something to worry about or am I just lucky?


 If e2 is in range, you are fine. I recommend never going past 70 pg/mL, that's roughly 256 pmol L in your units.

My protocol, developed by a MD specializing in HRT is :

Symptomatic+E2 >183.5 pmol/L take 1 mg arimidex once per week.

E2 >293 pmol/L take 2 mg arimidex split twice a week.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo Dostinex can help with mind sides from Tren?
> 
> @ghost.recon was saying that on Tren you need an SSRI to avoid sides....
> 
> Probably that mind sides from Tren are correlated with Prolactine? Never had issues with Prolactine until 1g of Tren A.... But after a while had issues falling asleep...


 Both help with trenbolone through indirect and direct mechanisms.

We have seen research that shows 19nors can affect serotonergic neurotransmission and dopaminergic pathways.

Tren does not increase prolactin, this myth came about because of the leaky nipples and the fact that cabergoline, an anti-prolactin drug helps with sides from tren.

This is as erroneous as the myth that daily letrozole is effective for gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> best compounds to use in wound healing?
> 
> general question but in my particular case having glands removed in a few weeks and want to be back in the gym asap
> 
> already on growth, peps, mk677 and bromelain


 All above will cover you, keep zinc, vitamin c and protein intake high.

You should recover very fast.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Last short question please mate and I'll let you get on with everyone else!
> 
> Going to thailand for 4 weeks soon (currently on 150mg test E 300mg tren E).
> 
> I am planning on pinning 1g of test undeconate the day before i go in addition to maybe 300-500mg test.
> 
> That should comfortable see me through the month right? perhaps a small dip at the end but I have gone for nearly 3 weeks ok just from a 500mg test jab.
> 
> I will pop a decent dose of AI as well then to bring it down, so it gradually rises, and can get tamoxifen out there if needed (if AI rises nips start itching etc).


 You will be perfectly fine.

Take some AI in a bottle of vitamins or supplements and take it it through out at a lower dose if you are gyno or e2 sensitive.

take a bottle of tamoxifen and ralox in case you get a flare up.

I would do the 1 g undeconate only to keep the pharmacokinetics more predictable.

use http://steroidcalc.com , and play around with your doses so you get an idea what your levels will look like.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> I went in for the plundge and did ventro lastnight, half inch 29g insulin needle. As you say didnt feel a thing, until today ofcoarse. You could swear ive been smashed with a cricket bat. You mentioned no nerves in that area so is it possible i may have gone to high?
> 
> Cheers @ElChapo


 Too high or it leaked SQ, where the nerves are. What's the needle length and your BF%.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> It'll be because it's a new site, no?


 Could be virgin muscle pip as well, but most likely a combo of virgin muscle, SQ or injection closer to hip bone.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thank you for the awesome info re ventroglute.
> 
> Last question: do you pin this sat down? Might seem silly but I want to get it right. I plan to use a slin needle to do it.
> 
> Reckon this will be deep enough (assuming low enough body fat): https://www.medisave.co.uk/bd-microfine-05ml-insulin-syringe-030mm-30g-8mm-x-200-p-101101.html
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!


 I prefer sitting down, but you can do standing.

That's the same length needle i use, i would consider using it for ventro if you are under 10-12% bodyfat.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo Is the "waiting before hgh" a myth ? I know top bodybuilders who dont ****in care about it


 You can go straight to it, 90% of recreational bodybuilders dont need GH to get the look they want.

If you are going for pro size or want faster gains, then GH is an option. For most people, the the cost to value ratio is not worth it.


----------



## supertesty

ElChapo said:


> You can go straight to it, 90% of recreational bodybuilders dont need GH to get the look they want.
> 
> I


 Sory @ElChapo I forgot one word ROFL and just noticed my question have still sens !

I would like to say : Is the "Wait before doing your hgh if you have a meal" a myth ?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> I prefer sitting down, but you can do standing.
> 
> That's the same length needle i use, i would consider using it for ventro if you are under 10-12% bodyfat.


 Thank you. Damn, that's me out then! Orange needle it is


----------



## ElChapo

kessler said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Sorry for crossposting, but I got little response on the other thread and this seems to be the right place.
> 
> Just got my blood test back and worried about raised ALT and Cholesterol levels, and low (but within range) Testosterone.
> 
> I ended my Test E 500mg/Oxy 50mg, 4 weeks, 4 months ago. did a 2 month Ostarine cycle afterwards which ended a few weeks ago.
> 
> What ALT levels are acceptable for someone using gear and shall I aim to get it within normal range before my next cycle (Test/Deca, no orals)?
> 
> Here is the full test - any feedback appreciated:


 Ostarine has been linked to some degree of liver toxicity and you didn't give your liver a break from the anadrol. This is most likely why you are liver is still stressed.

Creatine kinase is elevated, this could be mean heart stress or could just be muscle damage and inflammation. Note that this is a biomarker of stroke and heart attack, but your levels are too low to be from these causes.

Your hematocrit is also elevated at 53%, i like to see it at 52% absolute max. I would donate blood, it should bring you down to 49-%51%.

Testosterone is in the 85 y/o man range, e2 looks good. What do you plan on doing from here on out in terms of testosterone, because these levels will predispose to cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, depression/fatigue, etc. Do you TRT, cruise or PCT?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Atm i use max 500 TrenA....
> 
> In these days I am on just 300 TestE 400 Tren E and 400 DHB...
> 
> But insomnia is hitting a bit..


 It comes with the territory. I get zero side effects from 50 mg eod tren ace, at 75 mg eod side effects begin to take hold.

Individual tolerance will vary by dose.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Sory @ElChapo I forgot one word ROFL and just noticed my question have still sens !
> 
> I would like to say : Is the "Wait before doing your hgh if you have a meal" a myth ?


 Myth. Take once in the morning.

Probably stems from the fact that fasting and caloric restriction can cause an increase in pulsatile growth hormone secretion.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thank you. Damn, that's me out then! Orange needle it is


 It's my go-to. If you aren't pinning more than 1 mL daily and you are lean. This needle is literally painless with zero scar tissue formation.


----------



## supertesty

ElChapo said:


> Myth. Take once in the morning.
> 
> Probably stems from the fact that fasting and caloric restriction can cause an increase in pulsatile growth hormone secretion.


 So wait 15min before eating if you injected hgh is a ****in myth ? I always believed that because even if I eat I can really feel my hgh is not detoriored by some insulin spike.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Too high or it leaked SQ, where the nerves are. What's the needle length and your BF%.


 Thanks elchapo. It was 12mm needle, body fat god only knows but id say 18 possibly 20% max


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Thanks elchapo. It was 12mm needle, body fat god only knows but id say 18 possibly 20 max


 I would do a 1-1.5 inch for ventro then. With 12 mm you might inject SQ.


----------



## gymfreak2010

@ElChapo

I know the topic of HGH has been touched a lot now, but I have a question.

what truth is there in the fact that pros will inject small increments of gh & slin through out the day, ie with meals ?


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> So wait 15min before eating if you injected hgh is a ****in myth ? I always believed that because even if I eat I can really feel my hgh is not detoriored by some insulin spike.


 Neurotic micromanaging if you ask me. Many pros get the results they do from tons of hard work, dedication, genetics, diet and drugs, but it is this same obsessive compulsive mindset that tries to find an edge in any possible way, which manifests as these little quirk-myths you see around the forums.

The difference between a 1st placer and a last placer isn't going to come down to how often he injects his GH.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> I would do a 1-1.5 inch for ventro then. With 12 mm you might inject SQ.


 So thats what i will do next week for left v/g then, although i feel i dont carry alot of fat on my thigh/hips, more so on my back and stomach. I can see and feel ventro muscle quite well


----------



## kessler

ElChapo said:


> Ostarine has been linked to some degree of liver toxicity and you didn't give your liver a break from the anadrol. This is most likely why you are liver is still stressed.
> 
> Creatine kinase is elevated, this could be mean heart stress or could just be muscle damage and inflammation. Note that this is a biomarker of stroke and heart attack, but your levels are too low to be from these causes.
> 
> Your hematocrit is also elevated at 53%, i like to see it at 52% absolute max. I would donate blood, it should bring you down to 49-%51%.
> 
> Testosterone is in the 85 y/o man range, e2 looks good. What do you plan on doing from here on out in terms of testosterone, because these levels will predispose to cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, depression/fatigue, etc. Do you TRT, cruise or PCT?


 Thanks a lot for the response.

My plan is to give it another two months before a new blood test. Seems Ostarine still has some negative effect (20mg/day)

During this period I will improve my diet and increase cardio. I will take Niacin to improve my Cholesterol. My AST figure will hopefully improve once I recovered from Osta/previous cycle but I started taking TUDCA and Liv52 today as I had some left. Not sure what can be done about low testosterone other than waiting to recover. Will it make sense to go back on Nolva? I did a 4 week pct with Nolva and Clomid after ending my cycle (but not after Osta).

Not too keen on giving blood, but if that is the only way to bring down the hematocrit I will certainly do it.

Hopefully this will improve the results.


----------



## supertesty

ElChapo said:


> Neurotic micromanaging if you ask me. Many pros get the results they do from tons of hard work, dedication, genetics, diet and drugs, but it is this same obsessive compulsive mindset that tries to find an edge in any possible way, which manifests as these little quirk-myths you see around the forums.
> 
> The difference between a 1st placer and a last placer isn't going to come down to how often he injects his GH.


 Excellent post ! thanks a lot mate


----------



## ElChapo

kessler said:


> Thanks a lot for the response.
> 
> My plan is to give it another two months before a new blood test. Seems Ostarine still has some negative effect (20mg/day)
> 
> During this period I will improve my diet and increase cardio. I will take Niacin to improve my Cholesterol. My AST figure will hopefully improve once I recovered from Osta/previous cycle but I started taking TUDCA and Liv52 today as I had some left. Not sure what can be done about low testosterone other than waiting to recover. Will it make sense to go back on Nolva? I did a 4 week pct with Nolva and Clomid after ending my cycle (but not after Osta).
> 
> Not too keen on giving blood, but if that is the only way to bring down the hematocrit I will certainly do it.
> 
> Hopefully this will improve the results.


 There is no guarantee testosterone will recover. PCT doesn't always work, especially in older individuals who have used AAS other than testosterone.

What is your age? You may have to consider TRT.

The HCT can come down on it's own eventually if you stop taking the offending compounds. I do recommend the blood donation.


----------



## kessler

ElChapo said:


> There is no guarantee testosterone will recover. PCT doesn't always work, especially in older individuals who have used AAS other than testosterone.
> 
> What is your age? You may have to consider TRT.
> 
> The HCT can come down on it's own eventually if you stop taking the offending compounds. I do recommend the blood donation.


 I am 41

I had absolutely no signs of low test. held on to the muscle, plenty of energy and libido great. The numbers surprised me a lot!

A lot of people recommend aspirin to lower HCT - do you recommend this?


----------



## ElChapo

kessler said:


> I am 41
> 
> I had absolutely no signs of low test. held on to the muscle, plenty of energy and libido great. The numbers surprised me a lot!
> 
> A lot of people recommend aspirin to lower HCT - do you recommend this?


 If you blast often enough, you won't feel the effects as bad as someone with low test for months to years because of gene expression. Low test is very bad for your health though and can actually increase the risk of heart disease.

Aspirin does not lower HCT, it makes the blood less likely to clot. 81 mg daily is a nice prophylaxis dose.


----------



## kessler

ElChapo said:


> If you blast often enough, you won't feel the effects as bad as someone with low test for months to years because of gene expression. Low test is very bad for your health though and can actually increase the risk of heart disease.
> 
> Aspirin does not lower HCT, it makes the blood less likely to clot. 81 mg daily is a nice prophylaxis dose.


 Anything you would recommend to boost natural test production?


----------



## SlinMeister

Time to reread all these posts and make a bible 

@ElChapo and @ghost.recon approved haha


----------



## u2pride

SlinMeister said:


> Time to reread all these posts and make a bible
> 
> @ElChapo and @ghost.recon approved haha


 Slin, you have to study!!! I will interrogate you!!


----------



## ElChapo

kessler said:


> Anything you would recommend to boost natural test production?


 To absolutely maximize natural testosterone you need

1. 6-8 hours of high quality sleep

2. Optimal vitamin D levels 60-80 ng/mL +Zinc supplementation 50 mg ED

3. Strength training with compound heavy movements, x 2- x 4 per week

4. At least 50 gram of fat per day

5. Keep stress levels as low as possible, avoid overtraining, excess alcohol consumption, no marijuana or opiates.

6. High blood sugar levels and high body fat percentage will impair testosterone levels. 8-12% is ideal for health, well-being, testosterone and aesthetics.

This can boost your levels up by 200-400 ng/dL max depending on what factors are holding back your natural levels.

Before i used AAS, strength training and zinc supplementation with optimal vitamin D boosted my levels from 500 ng/dL to 700-900 ng/dL in my early twenties.

I would say all the above might get you close to 500 ng/dL which is a decent level for your age, but many men are symptomatic at 500 ng/dL depending on what your levels were in your youth and your CAG AR receptor length.


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo what do you think about this video from Ea ? Trevor talk about t4 is better than t3 because it induces more fatloss with no muscleloss without the risk of thyroid shutdown.

I read all the pages but dont remember what did you say about t3 vs t4 ? thanks alot


----------



## kessler

ElChapo said:


> To absolutely maximize natural testosterone you need
> 
> 1. 6-8 hours of high quality sleep
> 
> 2. Optimal vitamin D levels 60-80 ng/mL +Zinc supplementation 50 mg ED
> 
> 3. Strength training with compound heavy movements, x 2- x 4 per week
> 
> 4. At least 50 gram of fat per day
> 
> 5. Keep stress levels as low as possible, avoid overtraining, excess alcohol consumption, no marijuana or opiates.
> 
> 6. High blood sugar levels and high body fat percentage will impair testosterone levels. 8-12% is ideal for health, well-being, testosterone and aesthetics.
> 
> This can boost your levels up by 200-400 ng/dL max depending on what factors are holding back your natural levels.
> 
> Before i used AAS, strength training and zinc supplementation with optimal vitamin D boosted my levels from 500 ng/dL to 700-900 ng/dL in my early twenties.
> 
> I would say all the above might get you close to 500 ng/dL which is a decent level for your age, but many men are symptomatic at 500 ng/dL depending on what your levels were in your youth and your CAG AR receptor length.


 Awesome - thank you very much for the great advice!


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo what do you think about this video from Ea ? Trevor talk about t4 is better than t3 because it induces more fatloss with no muscleloss without the risk of thyroid shutdown.
> 
> I read all the pages but dont remember what did you say about t3 vs t4 ? thanks alot


 I like Tony Huge and Coach trevor, they are cool guys that like to educate and make fun videos.

However, T4 is limited in it's ability to increase fat loss as the conversion to T3, the active hormone, is a rate limited step that is greatly impaired in a caloric deficit. When you eat less calories and you have less fat on your body, you produce less Leptin. Leptin is what signals T4 to T3 conversion. T3 is what increase lipolysis.

For pure fat loss, T3 is best. A normal thyroid secretes 80-120 mcg of T4 per day and 5-10 mcg of T3 per day. Total T3 productions from secretion+conversion equals 25-32 mcg average.

For thyroid replacement/optimal physiological function, T4+T3 combination therapy is the best. There are certain tissues and organs require T4 to function best such as hair and brain. By taking T3 only, T4 is shutdown which can impair cognition and have other negative effects, not really something to worry about when cutting but for thyroid replacement i always recommend T4 and T3 together. Many thyroid patient's see no benefit in energy levels, mood or cognition when given T4 alone.

Also, T3 does not lead to thyroid shutdown, no matter how long you are on it. There is research showing this, plus my own experiences and anecdotes with blood work online.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> It's my go-to. If you aren't pinning more than 1 mL daily and you are lean. This needle is literally painless with zero scar tissue formation.


 @ElChapo

I have abs, but honestly I'm close to the end of my blast and I'm >12% right now. Need to cut down then before I can use insulin pins.

Thanks, though.

Actually.. while I am on the subject of scar tissue...

Would lots of foam rolling help with that? If so, what would you do, immediately post injection... or just daily rolling for X mins?


----------



## ElChapo

kessler said:


> Awesome - thank you very much for the great advice!


 Anytime, give it a shot and see if you can get your levels to 500 ng/dL. I have a good feeling you will feel fine there as you are asymptomatic even with lower levels.

There are many health benefits to having testosterone in the upper tertile of the range(700-1,000 ng/dL), such as decreased risk of heart disease, depression, metabolic syndrome(obesity/diabetes), etc.

500 ng/dL is the minimum a man should have for optimal health and well-being and everyone's perfect range will vary depending on their genetics.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> I have abs, but honestly I'm close to the end of my blast and I'm >12% right now. Need to cut down then before I can use insulin pins.


 You can probably use the slin pins on your delts, chest and quads if they are lean enough. Usually <15% is enough, but ventroglutes tend to hold more fat until you get lower.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> You can probably use the slin pins on your delts, chest and quads if they are lean enough. Usually <15% is enough, but ventroglutes tend to hold more fat until you get lower.


 My delts and quads have almost no fat on them... ! Thanks man.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I edited my last post which you already responded to (super fast, thank you so much!!)

So, I'm gonna re post this bit:

"Actually.. while I am on the subject of scar tissue...

Would lots of foam rolling help with that? If so, what would you do, immediately post injection... or just daily rolling for X mins?"

Would be mega if you could get to that Q at some point.

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> My delts and quads have almost no fat on them... ! Thanks man.


 Then you can use 5/16th inch slin pin. The smallest available and my personal favorite injection device.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Then you can use 5/16th inch slin pin. The smallest available and my personal favorite injection device.


 Is that the G31?


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I edited my last post which you already responded to (super fast, thank you so much!!)
> 
> So, I'm gonna re post this bit:
> 
> "Actually.. while I am on the subject of scar tissue...
> 
> Would lots of foam rolling help with that? If so, what would you do, immediately post injection... or just daily rolling for X mins?"
> 
> Would be mega if you could get to that Q at some point.
> 
> Cheers


 Rotating sites and using slin pins is enough to minimize/avoid scar tissue.

The other thing you want to do is to stick to a high quality UGL with sterile oils. Any form of cloudiness or particulate matter is a bad sign. I have seen some disgusting s**t that passes for AAS in my day and can't believe people pin this stuff into their bodies.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Rotating sites and using slin pins is enough to minimize/avoid scar tissue.
> 
> The other thing you want to do is to stick to a high quality UGL with sterile oils. Any form of cloudiness or particulate matter is a bad sign. I have seen some disgusting s**t that passes for AAS in my day and can't believe people pin this stuff into their bodies.


 OK, mate, thanks.

Yeah, I use SG, so its all good


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Is that the G31?


 8 mm


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> OK, mate, thanks.
> 
> Yeah, I use SG, so its all good


 Yeah, their oil is clean. Like water, the MCT is good for slin pins as it's the thinnest carrier oil. I use it myself for homebrew.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Still catching up on this awesome thread so don't know if this has been asked yet...

curcumin... is this something we should really be involving in our otc arsenal? Been putting myself off buying it for a while now because of the price, as you know competing aint cheap and just had more important things to get in food etc. jordan peters swears by it and I believe life extension is the best brand to get for bioavailability


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Still catching up on this awesome thread so don't know if this has been asked yet...
> 
> curcumin... is this something we should really be involving in our otc arsenal? Been putting myself off buying it for a while now because of the price, as you know competing aint cheap and just had more important things to get in food etc. jordan peters swears by it and I believe life extension is the best brand to get for bioavailability


 It's a staple in my supplement stack. I don't like taking a lot of pills and 90% supplements are a waste of money and time.

Get yourself a standardized extract of regular curcumin from a trusted brand, you don't need that fancy stuff like life extension's. I use Jarrow's curcumin 500 mg with source naturals piperine. NOW foods has some solid product as well.

Take a look through the thread, i wrote a bit about the proven benefits of curcumin and cited some of the research.


----------



## arbffgadm100

What do you think about the merits of foam rolling full stop, @ElChapo?

Many, many thanks xxx


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> What do you think about the merits of foam rolling full stop, @ElChapo?
> 
> Many, many thanks xxx


 It can help a lot of people and some swear by it. I never bothered myself though.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> It can help a lot of people and some swear by it. I never bothered myself though.


 Gracias, Jefe!


----------



## JohhnyC

Hey mate, found out today I have an infection from a bad pin last week, doctor prescribed 10 day course of Anti-biotics

How does AAS (orals and Injectables) interact with this

Stop cycle for 10 days?


----------



## stewedw

From a friend:

Best cycle if no plans on pct for health and wellbeing. Aas plus other? (I assume a blast and cruise, test only with ai) bloods a couple of times a year. But I'll leave the experts to tell him. He's 41. 6ft. 12% bf, 101kg. Non smoke, occasional drinker, no plans for kids. Wants to maintain athletic physique, perhaps get leaner


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Hey mate, found out today I have an infection from a bad pin last week, doctor prescribed 10 day course of Anti-biotics
> 
> How does AAS (orals and Injectables) interact with this
> 
> Stop cycle for 10 days?


 First, find out what caused the infection. Was it unsterile/bad technique? Or is the quality of your oil suspect?

You can keep running the AAS, just make sure the oils weren't the cause.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> From a friend:
> 
> Best cycle of no plans on pct for health and wellbeing. Aas plus other? (I assume a blast and cruise, test only with ai) bloods a couple of times a year. But I'll leave the experts to tell him. He's 41. 6ft. 12% bf, 101kg. Non smoke, occasional drinker, no plans for kids. Wants to maintain athletic physique, perhaps get leaner


 Not sure what you are asking, but it seems like your friend's goal is to have an athletic physique with low body fat.

You do NOT need AAS to achieve that. If your friend has low testosterone with symptoms, then consider HRT but AAS is not necessary.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Not sure what you are asking, but it seems like your friend's goal is to have an athletic physique with low body fat.
> 
> You do NOT need AAS to achieve that. If your friend has low testosterone with symptoms, then consider HRT but AAS is not necessary.


 Due to his age and ten years of using he doesn't think pct will work so figured he would self administer trt for life, when I mentioned this thread he asked if there is anything else he should do instead as he holds a decent amount of muscle but is an old far.t now so worried that coming off will see him waste away ??


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Due to his age and ten years of using he doesn't think pct will work so figured he would self administer trt for life, when I mentioned this thread he asked if there is anything else he should do instead as he holds a decent amount of muscle but is an old far.t now so worried that coming off will see him waste away ??


 HRT will hold muscle fine if he has an athletic physique. He can easily stay around 1,000-1,200 ng/dL total testosterone with minimal health risks, unless he is particularly sensitive. He can't use HRT as a crutch for poor diet and nutrition though.

He can also do HRT with deca for a little extra anabolic kick, granted he keeps his blood work and vitals in check. Something like 100-150 Test+100-150 deca or masteron. He can experiment and find a protocol where he feels his best and his health markers are still great.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo what does 12% bodyfat look like to you? Post a picture if easier. Do you believe raloxifene can reverse stubborn pubertal gyno, I feel like it's reversed some of mine


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo what does 12% bodyfat look like to you? Post a picture if easier. Do you believe raloxifene can reverse stubborn pubertal gyno, I feel like it's reversed some of mine


 https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=http://imgur.com/a/FIWbU

More or less the above, some look leaner/fatter depending on genetics ; fat distribution/skin thickness/water retention.


----------



## ElChapo

12% = When abs start to appear when relaxed, muscle seperation becomes noticeable.

8%= abs visible when completely relaxed. lower abs vascularity apparent.


----------



## SlinMeister

1) Is that good abit to take whole dose of orals in the AM or is that better to spread orals during the day?

2) 25mcg T3 and 100mcg T4 can be good enough thyroid therapy for bulking?

3) 50mcg T3 0 T4 can be enough dose for a cut?

4) which T3 T4 doses would you recommend for Bulking and for Cutting?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> It's a staple in my supplement stack. I don't like taking a lot of pills and 90% supplements are a waste of money and time.
> 
> Get yourself a standardized extract of regular curcumin from a trusted brand, you don't need that fancy stuff like life extension's. I use Jarrow's curcumin 500 mg with source naturals piperine. NOW foods has some solid product as well.
> 
> Take a look through the thread, i wrote a bit about the proven benefits of curcumin and cited some of the research.


 Great, will get round to it at some point, and thanks for your replys, awesome to have you on the forum.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> 1) Is that good abit to take whole dose of orals in the AM or is that better to spread orals during the day?
> 
> 2) 25mcg T3 and 100mcg T4 can be good enough thyroid therapy for bulking?
> 
> 3) 50mcg T3 0 T4 can be enough dose for a cut?
> 
> 4) which T3 T4 doses would you recommend for Bulking and for Cutting?


 1-Once daily is fine, again, serum levels and half-life are not the end-all when it comes to dosing frequency.

GH only lasts a couple of hours in our blood, however we get a significant clinical effect from once daily dosing. We don't take GH x 4 times daily just because the serum half life is short. It's the same deal with orals.

2- 150+12.5 mcg T4/T3, you won't see a crazy effect from thyroid during a bulk but it can optimize protein synthesis, especially if you have sub-optimal thyroid function to begin with, be wary of higher doses as they can deplete glycogen and make you flatter if carbs are not kept high enough.

3- 50-75 mcg T3. 100 mcg tends to make one excessively flat, negatively affects strength and decreases activity tolerance/endurance.

4- See above


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Great, will get round to it at some point, and thanks for your replys, awesome to have you on the forum.


 Glad to help, and thank you.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> 1-Once daily is fine, again, serum levels and half-life are not the end-all when it comes to dosing frequency.
> 
> GH only lasts a couple of hours in our blood, however we get a significant clinical effect from once daily dosing. We don't take GH x 4 times daily just because the serum half life is short. It's the same deal with orals.
> 
> 2- 150+12.5 mcg T4/T3, you won't see a crazy effect from thyroid during a bulk but it can optimize protein synthesis, especially if you have sub-optimal thyroid function to begin with, be wary of higher doses as they can deplete glycogen and make you flatter if carbs are not kept high enough.
> 
> 3- 50-75 mcg T3. 100 mcg tends to make one excessively flat, negatively affects strength and decreases activity tolerance/endurance.
> 
> 4- See above


 Gosh and I take 1iu HGH every 4h.... With orals... Wtf...


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> First, find out what caused the infection. Was it unsterile/bad technique? Or is the quality of your oil suspect?
> 
> You can keep running the AAS, just make sure the oils weren't the cause.


 So orals won't effect the antibiotics effectiveness? Good to know cheers!

I pinned the other glute with the same vial and no issues so I suspect it was due to technique. There is a possibility I have contaminated the vial now so will dump it.

Thank you!


----------



## Jordan08

As you said, for some people 250Mg Test per week can make people to stay between ranges 800-1200ng/dl and for some people it takes 500mg test or whatever dosage to remain near those ranges. How much Test Levels should a person maintain on a cycle so that it doesn't kill the libido and also would keep the DHT related issues at bay?.

Secondly, after starting a cycle when a person should go for a blood test to check these levels?. In week 4 , 5 or any other after the first injection?


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo

Atm im on 250mg test E EOD, 150mg eod trenA, 250mg EQ EOD

I'm not used to use long ester of test with short ester of tren but i didnt want to use prop for this time. I want to decrease my test dose, how to do to have less impact on blood fluctuation and in how much time I'll have my blood plasma stable with the proper amount of test I want ?

thanks a lot


----------



## supertesty

Hey @ElChapo Have you got an idea of what's in this dudes muscles ? I dont think its seo because its looks very dense, i dont think its PMMA also (like rich piana) its very very very expensive so...


----------



## bornagod

supertesty said:


> Hey @ElChapo Have you got an idea of what's in this dudes muscles ? I dont think its seo because its looks very dense, i dont think its PMMA also (like rich piana) its very very very expensive so...


 Thats 1 hairy mother fùcker!


----------



## superdrol

supertesty said:


> Hey @ElChapo Have you got an idea of what's in this dudes muscles ? I dont think its seo because its looks very dense, i dont think its PMMA also (like rich piana) its very very very expensive so...


 I'd say not a lot other than a f**k load of muscle??


----------



## supertesty

Impossible look at his arms and delts man lol its cartoon like


----------



## superdrol

supertesty said:


> Impossible look at his arms and delts man lol its cartoon like


 Forearms are tiny imo, but delta and arms are in sync with chest aswell and his back/lats are big too!


----------



## bornagod

superdrol said:


> Forearms are tiny imo, but delta and arms are in sync with chest aswell and his back/lats are big too!


 Traps look a little under developed too if you ask me, not in proportion to everything else


----------



## superdrol

bornagod said:


> Traps look a little under developed too if you ask me, not in proportion to everything else


 He's an odd shape I'll admit but could just train certain body parts in a crappy split


----------



## bornagod

superdrol said:


> He's an odd shape I'll admit but could just train certain body parts in a crappy split


 Could be. Still got huge arms, delts and back. Good on him i say


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> As you said, for some people 250Mg Test per week can make people to stay between ranges 800-1200ng/dl and for some people it takes 500mg test or whatever dosage to remain near those ranges. How much Test Levels should a person maintain on a cycle so that it doesn't kill the libido and also would keep the DHT related issues at bay?.
> 
> Secondly, after starting a cycle when a person should go for a blood test to check these levels?. In week 4 , 5 or any other after the first injection?


 Most people will run 150 mg- 300 mg to cover their base. This will have total testosterone in the 500-2,000 ng/dL range for most. Some only want the bare minimum, others want a bit extra for the anabolic effect ie 300 mg.

DHT issues are going to be DHT issues regardless, old men, the most commom victim of MPB have the lowest testosterone levels, yet exhibit rapid hair loss. Teenagers = highest test level= less hair loss. its complicated amd still something of a medical mystery. It isnt as simple as high serum DHT levels = hair loss. If your question was in regards to mpb.

Run nizoral to slown down hair loss or finasteride if you are desperate (cant recommend this as it is horrible for your mental and physical health) Avoid compounds that accelerate your hair loss, common ones are winstrol/masteron, and

REMEMBER the hair coming off your head when you brush through it is NOT MPB, just shedding of hair. MPB is a gradual thinning of the hair starting at the temples and crown. Hormonal changes will cause acute increase in hair shedding, this is not permanent hair loss.

Maximum serum levels will be reached in 4-6 weeks for enanthate/cypionate. Short esters will reach peak serum 1-2 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Atm im on 250mg test E EOD, 150mg eod trenA, 250mg EQ EOD
> 
> I'm not used to use long ester of test with short ester of tren but i didnt want to use prop for this time. I want to decrease my test dose, how to do to have less impact on blood fluctuation and in how much time I'll have my blood plasma stable with the proper amount of test I want ?
> 
> thanks a lot


 Steroidcalc.com

Use that to calculate serum levels at different doses.

Just drop to your new dose and don't worry about it. It wont make a difference.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Hey @ElChapo Have you got an idea of what's in this dudes muscles ? I dont think its seo because its looks very dense, i dont think its PMMA also (like rich piana) its very very very expensive so...


 No clue, that does look a bit odd though. Might just be his muscle shape though.


----------



## Bull Terrier

I'm planning on doing my 1st cycle in over 20 years at the end of summer.

My dilemma is that I don't know what to do at the end of the cycle.

The last time I tested - probably a bit over a year ago - my baseline free test levels were around 300ng/dl which I realize isn't a good level at all. For the record I'm nearly 44 years old, and my %BF is low - probably about 7 or 8%. I sleep about 6-7 hours per night - as much as my baby lets me sleep lol. I live in a hot sunny place so I guess my Vitamin D levels will be good, and my diet is generally excellent. I don't drink much alcohol (occasional glass of wine, and a few beers on Saturday evening), don't use recreational drugs or medication. My fasting BG is around 60, i.e. my insulin sensitivity is very high as confirmed also by a QUICKI measurement. Blood pressure is generally 110/70 and resting heart rate around 52bpm. I train with weights 3 times per week on a basic 5/3/1 powerlifting program.

I like the idea of doing a good PCT, keeping most of my gains and then not using AAS again. However I don't know if TRT is actually better for me, and thus skip the PCT. If possible I would prefer to avoid TRT for as long as possible, but not if it would be better for me.

The thing is although my natural test levels are quite low, I don't really know whether I have symptoms of hypogonadism, not really having a method to measure by for a comparison.

What's your advice for a guy like me?

Perhaps it's worth saying that my cycle will include 19-nors and will be 8 week blast, 4 week cruise, 8 week blast (with different compounds).


----------



## IrregularB

@ElChapo After reading a lot of yours/Pervets T3 stuff i've decided i'm going to try it out. However finding information on lengths is difficult. If i don't have any of the ill sides such as Palpitations and what not can i run it as long as i see fit? Not looking to rush in or be silly. Could i run it as follows in your opinion?:

Week 1-3 25MCG

Week 4-16 50MCG

Week 17-20 12.5MCG

Is this too much for a first time user? Thanks in advance for anyone to can help!


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> @ElChapo After reading a lot of yours/Pervets T3 stuff i've decided i'm going to try it out. However finding information on lengths is difficult. If i don't have any of the ill sides such as Palpitations and what not can i run it as long as i see fit? Not looking to rush in or be silly. Could i run it as follows in your opinion?:
> 
> Week 1-3 25MCG
> 
> Week 4-16 50MCG
> 
> Week 17-20 12.5MCG
> 
> Is this too much for a first time user? Thanks in advance for anyone to can help!


 You can run it as long as you want. No risk of shutdown. No need to taper, go straight to your max dose.

Remember, caloric deficit is 90% of your fat loss. T3 will encourage lipolysis and prevent metabolic downregulation from cutting.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> I'm planning on doing my 1st cycle in over 20 years at the end of summer.
> 
> My dilemma is that I don't know what to do at the end of the cycle.
> 
> The last time I tested - probably a bit over a year ago - my baseline free test levels were around 300ng/dl which I realize isn't a good level at all. For the record I'm nearly 44 years old, and my %BF is low - probably about 7 or 8%. I sleep about 6-7 hours per night - as much as my baby lets me sleep lol. I live in a hot sunny place so I guess my Vitamin D levels will be good, and my diet is generally excellent. I don't drink much alcohol (occasional glass of wine, and a few beers on Saturday evening), don't use recreational drugs or medication. My fasting BG is around 60, i.e. my insulin sensitivity is very high as confirmed also by a QUICKI measurement. Blood pressure is generally 110/70 and resting heart rate around 52bpm. I train with weights 3 times per week on a basic 5/3/1 powerlifting program.
> 
> I like the idea of doing a good PCT, keeping most of my gains and then not using AAS again. However I don't know if TRT is actually better for me, and thus skip the PCT. If possible I would prefer to avoid TRT for as long as possible, but not if it would be better for me.
> 
> The thing is although my natural test levels are quite low, I don't really know whether I have symptoms of hypogonadism, not really having a method to measure by for a comparison.
> 
> What's your advice for a guy like me?
> 
> Perhaps it's worth saying that my cycle will include 19-nors and will be 8 week blast, 4 week cruise, 8 week blast (with different compounds).


 Your health and lifestyle look excellent. PCT won't do anything for you with those levels and at age 40, they are only going to continue dropping. TRT will hold your gains great if you keep traning and eating enough protein/calories to sustain it ( As long as you aren't holding insane amounts of muscle).

If you feel completely fine, libido, erections, energy, motivation and mood are great, you can consider skipping the TRT. What is your free T level? Maybe that is within a good range and is why you feel pretty good.

Coming off a cycle like that, you can expect much lower levels, possibly despite PCT as you are running harsher compounds for extended periods of time. Myself, i would consider TRT but if you are literally completely asymptomatic, may be you want to hold off on it.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> You can run it as long as you want. No risk of shutdown. No need to taper, go straight to your max dose.
> 
> Remember, caloric deficit is 90% of your fat loss. T3 will encourage lipolysis and prevent metabolic downregulation from cutting.


 Okay thank you! So i don't have to worry about bloods apart from the usual ones? obviously TSH will be out of whack, i know this returns to normal after discontinuing use but i don't have to worry about T3 sides unless i can actually feel them? Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> Okay thank you! So i don't have to worry about bloods apart from the usual ones? obviously TSH will be out of whack, i know this returns to normal after discontinuing use but i don't have to worry about T3 sides unless i can actually feel them? Thanks.


 TSH will be low or shutdown most of the time. Free T3 will be very high. T4 will be shutdown.

Most people won't feel much of anything on 50 mcg but the positive effect on metabolism will still be there.

I've ran 50 mcg USA pharma T3, had my free T3 x 4 times over the top of the range. I didn't feel any sides at all.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> TSH will be low or shutdown most of the time. Free T3 will be very high. T4 will be shutdown.
> 
> Most people won't feel much of anything on 50 mcg but the positive effect on metabolism will still be there.


 A big thank you for what you do for us! All the best!


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> A big thank you for what you do for us! All the best!


 Glad to help.

Just looked through my notes, only sides i really felt were a bit of increased adrenaline. A little more irritable, good energy levels and a little bit of brain fog and short-term memory impairement. (most likely from decreased T4 levels)

Free T3 was 12 pg/mL, Free T4 was .17 ng/dL


----------



## Dr Gearhead

I've read mixed things regarding T3 supplimentation when using Tren, some say it's a requirment others not. I assume there is suspected metabolic down regulation with Tren and that's the thinking behind it. What's your take ?

Also, thanks for taking the time to provide such a wealth of awesome knowledge in these threads, it's much appreciated


----------



## 31205

Lowest dose of tudca that'll keep your liver from troubles please? Got 100 X 200mg tudca caps coming on Friday and just wondering what dose I should use? Can always buy more if needed. Using 50mg winny ed. 125mg tren a eod 200mg test ew.

Also what can we use to keep kidneys sweet?

@ElChapo


----------



## green81

nvm


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

can clen at 80mcg ed be used at the same time as 250mg dnp?

If not how long after last clen dose before starting dnp?


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> I've read mixed things regarding T3 supplimentation when using Tren, some say it's a requirment others not. I assume there is suspected metabolic down regulation with Tren and that's the thinking behind it. What's your take ?
> 
> Also, thanks for taking the time to provide such a wealth of awesome knowledge in these threads, it's much appreciated


 Not necessary, but can help with fatigue/mood issues that some people get from it.

You're welcome brother


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Lowest dose of tudca that'll keep your liver from troubles please? Got 100 X 200mg tudca caps coming on Friday and just wondering what dose I should use? Can always buy more if needed. Using 50mg winny ed. 125mg tren a eod 200mg test ew.
> 
> Also what can we use to keep kidneys sweet?
> 
> @ElChapo


 250 mg daily will cover you. 1,000 mg can actually reverse liver damage.

For kidneys, stay hydrated, do cardio, keep BP within normal limits. High blood pressure is the #1 cause of kidney disease, followed by uncontrolled diabetes.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> can clen at 80mcg ed be used at the same time as 250mg dnp?
> 
> If not how long after last clen dose before starting dnp?


 You can use them together. You will get a synergistic effect and stimulants can help mitigate DNP induced fatigue. May not get sides on 250 mg DNP unless you are sensitive.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg daily will cover you. 1,000 mg can actually reverse liver damage.
> 
> For kidneys, stay hydrated, do cardio, keep BP within normal limits. High blood pressure is the #1 cause of kidney disease, followed by uncontrolled diabetes.


 If I ran 1000mg, could I run winstrol and mtren or am I just being cheeky now?


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> If I ran 1000mg, could I run winstrol and mtren or am I just being cheeky now?


 Not even, 500 mg is more than enough. Think about it, guys have been getting away with ridiculous oral cycles for years without tudca. Grant it, they aren't doing their liver any favors, but you're body is more resilient than you think. 250-500 mg will cover most oral/liver toxic cycles.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Not even, 500 mg is more than enough. Think about it, guys have been getting away with ridiculous oral cycles for years without tudca. Grant it, they aren't doing their liver any favors, but you're body is more resilient than you think. 250-500 mg will cover most oral/liver toxic cycles.


 Brilliant. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> You can use them together. You will get a synergistic effect and stimulants can help mitigate DNP induced fatigue. May not get sides on 250 mg DNP unless you are sensitive.


 Ok thanks. Would you prefer to run them together or to save the clen post dnp to mitigate any potential rebound? Running t3 throughout at 50mcg by the way


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Ok thanks. Would you prefer to run them together or to save the clen post dnp to mitigate any potential rebound? Running t3 throughout at 50mcg by the way


 You won't get rebound from DNP unless you let your diet go. You can maintain even 6% bf year round if you eat low enough cals. It's all diet.

The T3 is a nice addition. Clen, dnp, t3 will absolutely torch fat in a caloric deficit.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> You won't get rebound from DNP unless you let your diet go. You can maintain even 6% bf year round if you eat low enough cals. It's all diet.
> 
> The T3 is nice addition. Clen, dnp, t3 will absolutely torch fat in a caloric deficit.


 My god DNP clen T3 you will literally feel the fat melting off you....

But I have noticed that you must do some type of activity... If you just sit on your ass it will be really hard to loose bf...

For me it's really hard to diet on DNP since it makes me go mad for fruits...


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> My god DNP clen T3 you will literally feel the fat melting off you....
> 
> But I have noticed that you must do some type of activity... If you just sit on your ass it will be really hard to loose bf...
> 
> For me it's really hard to diet on DNP since it makes me go mad for fruits...


 Those that have lethargy and appetite(cravings) issues with DNP use should add ephedrine into the mix. This will cover both issues and further enhance fat loss.

Cardio isn't a requirement for fat loss, but you will get a lot more fatloss out of your diet and drugs by adding it in. Calories are still 90% of the equation and all that these drugs are doing is increasing the amount of calories the body is using daily.


----------



## Doitagain

sen said:


> Brilliant. Thanks a lot.


 You plan on checking liver values after a month or two on M-Tren+Winstrol+TUDCA?


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Those that have lethargy and appetite(cravings) issues with DNP use should add ephedrine into the mix. This will cover both issues and further enhance fat loss.
> 
> Cardio isn't a requirement for fat loss, but you will get a lot more fatloss out of your diet and drugs by adding it in. Calories are still 90% of the equation and all that these drugs are doing is increasing the amount of calories the body is using daily.


 My appetite cravings were enormous on DNP, how much ephedrine would you suggest?


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> My appetite cravings were enormous on DNP, how much ephedrine would you suggest?


 25 mg ephedrine sulfate+200 mg caffeine, up to x 3 daily if needed.

Third dose may affect sleep. I never felt the need for more than once daily dosing personally.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> 25 mg ephedrine sulfate+200 mg caffeine, up to x 3 daily if needed.
> 
> Third dose may affect sleep. I never felt the need for more than once daily dosing personally.


 Thanks dude. So just to be clear, this is on top of T3?


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Thanks dude. So just to be clear, this is on top of T3?


 T3 is optional.

All you need is caloric deficit, drugs just accelerate results. I don't use drugs to cut anymore. I maintain 6-9% year round. Even at 9% i'm only 4 weeks away from 7% BF on a -25% caloric deficit with NO drugs. They aren't necessary but they are damn useful.

Each drug has it's own benefit and unique effect.

DNP for rapid fat loss

EC for appetite supressant effect, increased energy and training intensity during cut and increased BMR

Yohimbine for stubborn fat and libido/erection issues.

T3 mitigates the downregulation in metabolic rate from caloric deficit.


----------



## Tricky

SlinMeister said:


> My god DNP clen T3 you will literally feel the fat melting off you....
> 
> But I have noticed that you must do some type of activity... If you just sit on your ass it will be really hard to loose bf...
> 
> For me it's really hard to diet on DNP since it makes me go mad for fruits...


 I haven't been doing any cardio nor do I intend to and I've went for 225lbs to 205.6lbs. All just diet.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I haven't been doing any cardio nor do I intend to and I've went for 225lbs to 205.6lbs. All just diet.


 Exactly, all you need to do is be in a negative energy balance while maintaining your strength and training intensity. Your body will use adipose tissue for energy and spare muscle tissue, especially when AAS are in the equation.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Exactly, all you need to do is be in a negative energy balance while maintaining your strength and training intensity. Your body will use adipose tissue for energy and spare muscle tissue, especially when AAS are in the equation.


 I've a severe ankle injury I'm trying to get sorted out recently had 15 x rays, Mri and CT scan just waiting for consultants to try decide what to do as they are stumped by the results and can't decide what needs done so I can't do cardio I'm having to rely on diet which shifted the first 20lbs now I'm introducing drugs to help me get the last 20 off


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I've a severe ankle injury I'm trying to get sorted out recently had 15 x rays, Mri and CT scan just waiting for consultants to try decide what to do as they are stumped by the results and can't decide what needs done so I can't do cardio I'm having to rely on diet which shifted the first 20lbs now I'm introducing drugs to help me get the last 20 off


 I feel ya, no reason not to burn fat just because you're injured. I would do the same.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> I feel ya, no reason not to burn fat just because you're injured. I would do the same.


 Just a quick one I'm soon to start 300mg test on your advise better to get it in now instead of waiting to ive finished cutting. I've got adex and nolva on hand. Do I need adex at only 300mg? Or will I be safe using half a tab twice a week?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Just a quick one I'm soon to start 300mg test on your advise better to get it in now instead of waiting to ive finished cutting. I've got adex and nolva on hand. Do I need adex at only 300mg? Or will I be safe using half a tab twice a week?


 Definitely, testosterone will further promote fat loss and retention of muscle.

300 mg is the perfect cutting dose from my own personal experience and the data from the scientific literature.

1 mg adex is usually the perfect amount of adex for 300 mg, unless you are an over or under aromatizer.

Under aromatizer: 0-.5 mg adex

average aromatizer: 1 mg adex

over aromatizer: 1.5-2 mg adex


----------



## JohhnyC

Tricky said:


> I've a severe ankle injury I'm trying to get sorted out recently had 15 x rays, Mri and CT scan just waiting for consultants to try decide what to do as they are stumped by the results and can't decide what needs done so I can't do cardio I'm having to rely on diet which shifted the first 20lbs now I'm introducing drugs to help me get the last 20 off


 I was injured for a long time. 1.5 years off work.

Swimming helped with cardio tremendously actually. Sitting around all day I'd just snack


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> I was injured for a long time. 1.5 years off work.
> 
> Swimming helped with cardio tremendously actually. Sitting around all day I'd just snack


 Yeah, being sedentary is the real killer

Exercise is the best medicine. Glad you were able to find a work around.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Definitely, testosterone will further promote fat loss and retention of muscle.
> 
> 300 mg is the perfect cutting dose from my own personal experience and the data from the scientific literature.
> 
> 1 mg adex is usually the perfect amount of adex for 300 mg, unless you are an over or under aromatizer.
> 
> Under aromatizer: 0-.5 mg adex
> 
> average aromatizer: 1 mg adex
> 
> over aromatizer: 1.5-2 mg adex


 How will I know which I am? Just start on 1mg split twice a week and how will I know if it's too much or too little?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> How will I know which I am? Just start on 1mg split twice a week and how will I know if it's too much or too little?


 Symptoms or blood work. It's a pain, but once you dial it in, you won't have to do it again.

90% of the time, worst case scenario you will be in the lower end of the normal range or a little above the normal range.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> T3 is optional.
> 
> All you need is caloric deficit, drugs just accelerate results. I don't use drugs to cut anymore. I maintain 6-9% year round. Even at 9% i'm only 4 weeks away from 7% BF on a -25% caloric deficit with NO drugs. They aren't necessary but they are damn useful.
> 
> Each drug has it's own benefit and unique effect.
> 
> DNP for rapid fat loss
> 
> EC for appetite supressant effect, increased energy and training intensity during cut and increased BMR
> 
> Yohimbine for stubborn fat and libido/erection issues.
> 
> T3 mitigates the downregulation in metabolic rate from caloric deficit.


 Awesome mate, copying and pasting a lot of your replys from the 3 threads into my "need to know" word document! Can never find threads a year later.

Much appreciated!


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Awesome mate, copying and pasting a lot of your replys from the 3 threads into my "need to know" word document! Can never find threads a year later.
> 
> Much appreciated!


 More than happy to share my knowledge with you. Anytime brother


----------



## 31205

Doitagain said:


> You plan on checking liver values after a month or two on M-Tren+Winstrol+TUDCA?


 Probably not mate! I'm off to Thailand end of July. I've never had bloods done which is pretty irresponsible of me but will do a long cruise from end of July and get bloods done after that. Been on a while now.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo what's your take on whey? I already have a shake with dextrose straight after gym and one before bed with peanut butter. Problem is I'm 5 weeks in to tren and my breakfast consists of 4full eggs and 3 egg whites with 2 crumpets. I'm starting to really struggle eating them , been fine since xmas but now the tren has kicked in and the hot weather they are hard work. I was thinking for easyness replacing with another shake and oats so would mean over 100g of protein would be coming from whey ?


----------



## gymfreak2010

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo what's your take on whey? I already have a shake with dextrose straight after gym and one before bed with peanut butter. Problem is I'm 5 weeks in to tren and my breakfast consists of 4full eggs and 3 egg whites with 2 crumpets. I'm starting to really struggle eating them , been fine since xmas but now the tren has kicked in and the hot weather they are hard work. I was thinking for easyness replacing with another shake and oats so would mean over 100g of protein would be coming from whey ?


 Like you're self I was struggling with breakfast on tren & I'm normally a very big eater.

Had to force feed & blend food in the end, not good times !!

The only side I didn't get from tren was insomnia, thank god.


----------



## gregstm

Tricky said:


> How will I know which I am? Just start on 1mg split twice a week and how will I know if it's too much or too little?


 I would go for 0.25 mg eod and see how it go, you not gonna kill e2 with this dose and if its not enough then slightly increase like to 0.5 e3d but think you should be fine...


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

1mg of arimidex ok to take on Monday and Friday on 500Mg of sust thanks


----------



## John Boy 1985

Suffered with tennis and golfers elbow for years on and off. It's back again, am on genotropin at 3iu Mon to Fri, have been in it for 3mths. Whats your views in tb500 for it or anything else you advise. I stop all pulling and gripping exercises when it flares up


----------



## Abc987

gymfreak2010 said:


> Like you're self I was struggling with breakfast on tren & I'm normally a very big eater.
> 
> Had to force feed & blend food in the end, not good times !!
> 
> The only side I didn't get from tren was insomnia, thank god.


 I've been fine and still managing to eat my cals it's just the 7 eggs in the morning. I enjoy the crumpets when I walk to the station but the scrambled eggs are hard work. This morning I heaved and put the last bit in the bin. A shake would be so much easier!


----------



## gymfreak2010

Abc987 said:


> I've been fine and still managing to eat my cals it's just the 7 eggs in the morning. I enjoy the crumpets when I walk to the station but the scrambled eggs are hard work. This morning I heaved and put the last bit in the bin. A shake would be so much easier!


 If you can't stomach eggs in the morning, just change the protein source.

A lot of guys just blend oats with whey for breakfast, would be quick & easy if you're on the go for some one like you're self.


----------



## Abc987

gymfreak2010 said:


> If you can't stomach eggs in the morning, just change the protein source.
> 
> A lot of guys just blend oats with whey for breakfast, would be quick & easy if you're on the go for some one like you're self.


 Yeah quick and easy is what I want as I'm up and out the door within 15mins and no I can't get up earlier as I'm up at 4.50 lol

whey and oats is what I want but as said above I already have 4 scoops of whey so it'd be over 100g of protein coming from whey which seems a lot but is it ok?


----------



## gymfreak2010

Abc987 said:


> Yeah quick and easy is what I want as I'm up and out the door within 15mins and no I can't get up earlier as I'm up at 4.50 lol
> 
> whey and oats is what I want but as said above I already have 4 scoops of whey so it'd be over 100g of protein coming from whey which seems a lot but is it ok?


 not sure bud tbh, It's not something I would I do, me personally I don't do that much in powder, I get most of my protein from solids but that's just me.


----------



## capo

Abc987 said:


> Yeah quick and easy is what I want as I'm up and out the door within 15mins and no I can't get up earlier as I'm up at 4.50 lol
> 
> whey and oats is what I want but as said above I already have 4 scoops of whey so it'd be over 100g of protein coming from whey which seems a lot but is it ok?


 There's a news beat documentary on BBC i player at the minute called "addicted to protein" worth a watch but to sum it up it's not as good an option as proper food as we all know really


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Those that have lethargy and appetite(cravings) issues with DNP use should add ephedrine into the mix. This will cover both issues and further enhance fat loss.
> 
> Cardio isn't a requirement for fat loss, but you will get a lot more fatloss out of your diet and drugs by adding it in. Calories are still 90% of the equation and all that these drugs are doing is increasing the amount of calories the body is using daily.


 I use Yohimbine only when i do my fasted cardio... is that good also as Prewo? It has some benefits? Was reading that you need to be fasted to have benefits from it...


----------



## Tricky

gregstm said:


> I would go for 0.25 mg eod and see how it go, you not gonna kill e2 with this dose and if its not enough then slightly increase like to 0.5 e3d but think you should be fine...


 Don't think I could split my tabs in quarters lol


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo what's your take on whey? I already have a shake with dextrose straight after gym and one before bed with peanut butter. Problem is I'm 5 weeks in to tren and my breakfast consists of 4full eggs and 3 egg whites with 2 crumpets. I'm starting to really struggle eating them , been fine since xmas but now the tren has kicked in and the hot weather they are hard work. I was thinking for easyness replacing with another shake and oats so would mean over 100g of protein would be coming from whey ?


 You don't need protein shakes but i don't like eating pounds of meat for my protein intake, so they help.

You don't need those fancy sugar shakes (dextrose, maltodextrin, etc) It's all bullshit. You are better off having a protein shake and a bowl of your favorite sugary cereal, you will get a strong insulin response to shuttle the post-workout protein into your muscles.

Are you bulking or cutting? As long as you don't mind getting all your protein from whey, it's fine, but drinking your calories tends to be less satiating and can lead to increased hunger.

How much protein are you trying to consume daily, height/weight/bf% and goals?


----------



## ElChapo

gregstm said:


> I would go for 0.25 mg eod and see how it go, you not gonna kill e2 with this dose and if its not enough then slightly increase like to 0.5 e3d but think you should be fine...


 .25 mg eod is about .75 mg per week, only .25 mg less than the 1 mg dose i proposed with the added inconvenience of having to remember to take your dose every other day.

0.5 mg E3D is easy to remember and more convenient.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1mg of arimidex ok to take on Monday and Friday on 500Mg of sust thanks


 3-4 days apart is ideal. Sat/Wed, Mon/Thur, etc. That's fine.


----------



## gregstm

ElChapo said:


> .25 mg eod is about .75 mg per week, only .25 mg less than the 1 mg dose i proposed with the added inconvenience of having to remember to take your dose every other day.
> 
> 0.5 mg E3D is easy to remember and more convenient.


 Its more convenient but for me 0.5mg e3d is to much on 300mg and I usually drop ai on low doses. I use 0.5mg e3d with 500-600mg of test but ofc some ppl are more sensitive to estrogen


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Suffered with tennis and golfers elbow for years on and off. It's back again, am on genotropin at 3iu Mon to Fri, have been in it for 3mths. Whats your views in tb500 for it or anything else you advise. I stop all pulling and gripping exercises when it flares up


 Lots of potential there but we need more research in humans to confirm.

Never ever do curls on a barbell or even an ez bar. This puts too much strain on the elbow tendons. When doing db curls, stick to higher rep ranges.

I have tennis elbow from my submission wrestling days that still flares up once in a while 10 years later.

The best thing to do is avoid exercises that flare it up and take a week of when it get's bad.


----------



## ElChapo

gregstm said:


> Its more convenient but for me 0.5mg e3d is to much on 300mg and I usually drop ai on low doses. I use 0.5mg e3d with 500-600mg of test but ofc some ppl are more sensitive to estrogen


 Exactly, for *you. *Some people don't need any AI at this level. It's trial and error. I am giving him an average based on research and my own experience with HRT patients.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> You don't need protein shakes but i don't like eating pounds of meat for my protein intake, so they help.
> 
> You don't need those fancy sugar shakes (dextrose, maltodextrin, etc) It's all bullshit. You are better off having a protein shake and a bowl of your favorite sugary cereal, you will get a strong insulin response to shuttle the post-workout protein into your muscles.
> 
> Are you bulking or cutting? As long as you don't mind getting all your protein from whey, it's fine, but drinking your calories tends to be less satiating and can lead to increased hunger.
> 
> How much protein are you trying to consume daily, height/weight/bf% and goals?


 ATM mate I'm 35, 6.1, 214lbs and about 15-16% bf

i don't measure Marcos as such but eat the same things mon-Friday then a bit more slack at the weekend. Currently diet is

4 eggs plus 3 whites scrambled with 2x crumpets (1 with Nutella and one with low fat cheese spread)

2 scoops of whey + 2 scoops of dextrose post workout

150g cocked chicken in a thin with low fat salad cream + handful of mixed nuts and raisins and a breakfast bar

lunch is normally 200g chicken, 125g rice/pasta/noodles (uncooked weight) with broccoli and mixed veg, with some sort of sauce

150g cooked chicken in a thin low fat sale cream and a yogurt

diner would be the same as lunch

then before bed 2 scoops of whey and a big tablespoon of peanut butter

good knows what that adds up to but I'm bulking ATM. When weight stalls for over a week I'll increase carbs slightly

I know what you're saying about dextrose but it's more for convenience. on a cut the actual food is a lot more satisfying but good is a chore ATM lol

cutrently 5 weeks in to test/tren 600/320 started with 4 weeks of winni @50mg


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I use Yohimbine only when i do my fasted cardio... is that good also as Prewo? It has some benefits? Was reading that you need to be fasted to have benefits from it...


 Fasted only for maximum fat loss benefits.

It can be taken any time as a pre-workout and stacked with caffeine.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Don't think I could split my tabs in quarters lol


 USA:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EGKTGK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_VyOqzbVDAQT6D

UK:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000EGKTGK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_.zOqzb73CTR4W

That will do the job. My #1 recommended pill splitter. Holds the tab in place, slices into perfect halves/quarters.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> ATM mate I'm 35, 6.1, 214lbs and about 15-16% bf
> 
> i don't measure Marcos as such but eat the same things mon-Friday then a bit more slack at the weekend. Currently diet is
> 
> 4 eggs plus 3 whites scrambled with 2x crumpets (1 with Nutella and one with low fat cheese spread)
> 
> 2 scoops of whey + 2 scoops of dextrose post workout
> 
> 150g cocked chicken in a thin with low fat salad cream + handful of mixed nuts and raisins and a breakfast bar
> 
> lunch is normally 200g chicken, 125g rice/pasta/noodles (uncooked weight) with broccoli and mixed veg, with some sort of sauce
> 
> 150g cooked chicken in a thin low fat sale cream and a yogurt
> 
> diner would be the same as lunch
> 
> then before bed 2 scoops of whey and a big tablespoon of peanut butter
> 
> good knows what that adds up to but I'm bulking ATM. When weight stalls for over a week I'll increase carbs slightly
> 
> I know what you're saying about dextrose but it's more for convenience. on a cut the actual food is a lot more satisfying but good is a chore ATM lol
> 
> cutrently 5 weeks in to test/tren 600/320 started with 4 weeks of winni @50mg


 No issue then, if you are bulking and you are your calories in, it doesn't matter.

You don't have to count your macros, but you must have an idea of your calorie intake. Eating the same food everyday makes it even easier to keep track of your caloric intake.

Without tracking cals to some degree you cant make sure you are eating enough to support growth and it will be hard to make adjustments. People obsess too much over macronutrient composition of your diet.

Just focus on hitting your caloric intake (surplus/deficit) and getting enough protein.

You only need 0.8 g protein per lbs of lean body mass for a bulk, anything extra has no benefit.

1-1.4 grams per lbs of LBM for cutting, although i find that on AAS, 1 gram per lbm does the job just fine.

p.s. dextrose is s**t, one of those bullshit supplements i mentioned previously. Save your money and replace it with real food.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> No issue then, if you are bulking and you are your calories in, it doesn't matter.
> 
> You don't have to count your macros, but you must have an idea of your calorie intake. Eating the same food everyday makes it even easier to keep track of your caloric intake.
> 
> Without tracking cals to some degree you cant make sure you are eating enough to support growth and it will be hard to make adjustments. People obsess too much over macronutrient composition of your diet.
> 
> Just focus on hitting your caloric intake (surplus/deficit) and getting enough protein.
> 
> You only need 0.8 g protein per lbs of lean body mass for a bulk, anything extra has no benefit.
> 
> 1-1.4 grams per lbs of LBM for cutting, although i find that on AAS, 1 gram per lbm does the job just fine.
> 
> p.s. dextrose is s**t, one of those bullshit supplements i mentioned previously. Save your money and replace it with real food.


 Thanks for the help mate, I'm pretty consistent with what I eat, sauces on my dinner would vary a little but not enough to make a difference whilst bulking. I weigh the carbs so know roughly where I'm at. As said I'll be a little more relaxed at the weekend and tend to have some ice cream or maybe a cake but it's a bulk so f**k it lol.

I will go back to cereal then, preferable but not as convenient!

Cheers again


----------



## G-man99

Abc987 said:


> Thanks for the help mate, I'm pretty consistent with what I eat, sauces on my dinner would vary a little but not enough to make a difference whilst bulking. I weigh the carbs so know roughly where I'm at. As said I'll be a little more relaxed at the weekend and tend to have some ice cream or maybe a cake but it's a bulk so f**k it lol.
> 
> I will go back to cereal then, preferable but not as convenient!
> 
> Cheers again


 Jelly babies!


----------



## Abc987

G-man99 said:


> Jelly babies!


 I'm not a sweet fan if I'm honest mate, especially not jelly babies!

It was more about replacing the eggs. fu**ing scrambled eggs every morning for over a year and I've worked up to 4 full eggs + 3 whites. I dread getting up and eating them now lol


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I'm not a sweet fan if I'm honest mate, especially not jelly babies!
> 
> It was more about replacing the eggs. fu**ing scrambled eggs every morning for over a year and I've worked up to 4 full eggs + 3 whites. I dread getting up and eating them now lol


 Why don't you switch out the eggs for something else?


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Why don't you switch out the eggs for something else?


 Time mate. I get up at 4.50 and am out the door to catch train at 5.05, in the gym for 6.15! I can't be arsed to get up and f**k about making more food. A shake takes a min to make a les to drink that's all just convenience

its easier to drink the cals on a bulk but more satisfying to eat on a cut !


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Time mate. I get up at 4.50 and am out the door to catch train at 5.05, in the gym for 6.15! I can't be arsed to get up and f**k about making more food. A shake takes a min to make a les to drink that's all just convenience


 You could also make your meal the day before and just heat it up. Hey as long as you can stick to your diet and your gaining muscle that's all that matters.


----------



## supertesty

personally i cook large box of ground turkey and beef and rice for the whole week. some sauce to keep moisture and lets go


----------



## GeordieOak70

Abc987 said:


> Time mate. I get up at 4.50 and am out the door to catch train at 5.05, in the gym for 6.15! I can't be arsed to get up and f**k about making more food. A shake takes a min to make a les to drink that's all just convenience
> 
> its easier to drink the cals on a bulk but more satisfying to eat on a cut !


 When I get sick of eggs in the morning I have a bowl of co co pops with a scoop of chocolate ON Whey mixed in its quick easy and got what I need.


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> Jelly babies!


 My mrs loves the black ones !!


----------



## Abc987

GeordieOak70 said:


> When I get sick of eggs in the morning I have a bowl of co co pops with a scoop of chocolate ON Whey mixed in its quick easy and got what I need.


 I've been fine up until about a week ago and as said I've been eating them for over a year. It's gotta be the tren! I'm fine with the crumpets after, I quite enjoy them but eggs are getting to much lol

decision made anyway I'm gonna swap for a shake with oats!


----------



## gymfreak2010

Abc987 said:


> I've been fine up until about a week ago and as said I've been eating them for over a year. It's gotta be the tren! I'm fine with the crumpets after, I quite enjoy them but eggs are getting to much lol
> 
> decision made anyway I'm gonna swap for a shake with oats!


 I'ts only taken you all day lol


----------



## Tricky

Abc987 said:


> I've been fine up until about a week ago and as said I've been eating them for over a year. It's gotta be the tren! I'm fine with the crumpets after, I quite enjoy them but eggs are getting to much lol
> 
> decision made anyway I'm gonna swap for a shake with oats!


 Can you not just eat a few crumpets and Nutella and drink some liquid egg whites


----------



## Tricky

Abc987 said:


> I've been fine up until about a week ago and as said I've been eating them for over a year. It's gotta be the tren! I'm fine with the crumpets after, I quite enjoy them but eggs are getting to much lol
> 
> decision made anyway I'm gonna swap for a shake with oats!


 Brush up on your baking skills and make some protein muffins do flap jacks and have two with coffee on the way to work sorted lol


----------



## gymfreak2010

Tricky said:


> Brush up on your baking skills and make some protein muffins do flap jacks and have two with coffee on the way to work sorted lol


 sounds hot !!


----------



## Abc987

Tricky said:


> Brush up on your baking skills and make some protein muffins do flap jacks and have two with coffee on the way to work sorted lol





gymfreak2010 said:


> sounds hot !!


 Good if I want the actual food but its the fact tren is making me feel sick eating them! Making the muffins I'd be using whey anyways so I'll just stick with the shake but thanks anyway

would rather a moist brownie over a muffin anyway lol


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo do you recommend ECA stack to burn fat (14% more or less) combined with T3 50mcg day? If yes ECA proportions?

Thanks!


----------



## G-man99

gymfreak2010 said:


> My mrs loves the black ones !!


 Usually bigger and leaner


----------



## G-man99

Abc987 said:


> I'm not a sweet fan if I'm honest mate, especially not jelly babies!
> 
> It was more about replacing the eggs. fu**ing scrambled eggs every morning for over a year and I've worked up to 4 full eggs + 3 whites. I dread getting up and eating them now lol


 I go through spells like that mate, it's either tuna or eggs which I go off completely for months.

Also flavoured whey, I just use unflavoured now


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> Usually bigger and leaner


 that's exactly what she said, how ironic !!


----------



## Abc987

G-man99 said:


> I go through spells like that mate, it's either tuna or eggs which I go off completely for months.
> 
> Also flavoured whey, I just use unflavoured now


 yeah tuna is another. I was having a tuna plus a chicken sandwich everyday day. I'm now just having 2 chicken and every once in a while I throw in a tuna lol


----------



## G-man99

Abc987 said:


> yeah tuna is another. I was having a tuna plus a chicken sandwich everyday day. I'm now just having 2 chicken and every once in a while I throw in a tuna lol


 It's strange as there are so many different options but we tend to stick to the same few unoriginal ones all the time!


----------



## MrBishi

Abc987 said:


> I've been fine up until about a week ago and as said I've been eating them for over a year. It's gotta be the tren! I'm fine with the crumpets after, I quite enjoy them but eggs are getting to much lol
> 
> decision made anyway I'm gonna swap for a shake with oats!


 Look up overnight oats, great little breakfast and so easy to make.


----------



## Abc987

MrBishi said:


> Look up overnight oats, great little breakfast and so easy to make.


 I just buy instant oats from mp that comes in powder form so mixes in a shake with no lumps!


----------



## u2pride

Abc987 said:


> I just buy instant oats from mp that comes in powder form so mixes in a shake with no lumps!


 No lumps more or less...you have to shake very hard to melt oats very well.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo do you recommend ECA stack to burn fat (14% more or less) combined with T3 50mcg day? If yes ECA proportions?
> 
> Thanks!


 All you need is caloric deficit. Sure you can run EC stack with T3 if you want. It will make fat loss faster and help with appetite.

Read through the last two pages for dosage recommendations.


----------



## Abc987

u2pride said:


> No lumps more or less...you have to shake very hard to melt oats very well.


 No I'm saying instant oats from mp are grounded down so a powder form


----------



## arbffgadm100

Tricky said:


> Don't think I could split my tabs in quarters lol


 Geta pill cutter from Amazon, mate. You can split them fine. Costs about £5.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Dangers of the myocardial hypertrophy are overstated, the issue is the loss of ventricular function when the major arteries start to get too stiff and lose their efficiency. This is part of the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and CAD. I highly recommend anyone, especially those on AAS to do regular cardiovascular exercise. It IS underrated and will not negatively affect your gains.
> 
> Many times prostate will shrink down a bit after discontinuing AAS. Many of the acute symptoms on cycle come from inflammation of the prostate. Cialis works great for relieving these symptoms but yes increase AAS and IGF-1 levels are the perfect environment for prostate growth. The severity of long-term effects will come down to genetic predisposition to prostate pathologies like BPH and cancer, the drugs used, etc.
> 
> Testosterone/collagen: Nothing to worry about. People don't know how to read/analyze studies and start spreading information that is irrelevant. Many study designs are flawed, done in animals with different body system than ours, or done in vitro in a petri dish. All factors must be taken into account when taking what a study relevant data. Put it this way, if this were an issue, all these top powerlifters running grams of test would be snapping their s**t up on every rep.


 Hi Mate,

Just to say that i have taken your advise and now incorporating 3 - 4 cardio blasts at the end of my sessions.

In addition to this I have managed to source 100 tabs of Cialis (20mg each) for a good price. I am planning to split the pills and take 10mg ED to reap the advantages it offers for those using AAS. is 10mg ample or to much/unnecessary?

Got a full blood panel done today - every thing in range and my cholesterol is prob the best its ever been (HDL: 1.53 - LDL:1.87) - i put this down to the sups i have been using. Liver, HCT etc all in range.

I also requested a PSA test (FYI last one i had was in Feb this year - 2 months into Test-E only cycle and it was 1.2 ug/L) - Since then i have been blasting from 500 up to 1g of Test E with the use of Aromasin and also a 4 week low dose Tren E for cutting cycle. I had my E2 checked today also as part of the panel and it was around 85pg/ML.

I was advised by a doctor who treats AAS users that when using high Test there is no real need to worry about E2 running a little high and that 60 to 100pg/ML is ok assuming you do not suffer with high E2 sides (which i dont). He advised that letting E2 run a little higher will assist with building muscle (which in his defence i understand is true from some study that have been done on animals). I said at the time "does E2 not interfere with prostate growth" and he replied "no, it is the Testosterone that causes this which is why regular checking is required". Now doing a little research it is apparent that E2 does play a large role in growth of the prostate along with DHT which at the moment is making me a little worried as had i known i would have kept E2 in range!

The PSA test results will be ready some time next week as they need to send it off to another lab which is annoying! however i must admit im a bit apprehensive of the results and i hope im worrying about nothing! I do have some typical symptoms of BPE however im not sure if i am overthinking and its playing with my mind. if the results come back elevated more than my last results by 50% or more can i work on keeping my E2 down (in range) + drop the test E dose a bit and then re-test in 4 weeks or so to see if any "reverse damage" has been achieved? or does it not work like this?

many thanks!


----------



## Armitage Shanks

@ElChapo what is your take on supplementing hyaluronic acid and collagen powder for joint pain and body repair.

Perhaps just a placebo, but for me it seems to help so much!


----------



## u2pride

Abc987 said:


> No I'm saying instant oats from mp are grounded down so a powder form


 Yes, I know, I use that every morning!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> Just to say that i have taken your advise and now incorporating 3 - 4 cardio blasts at the end of my sessions.
> 
> In addition to this I have managed to source 100 tabs of Cialis (20mg each) for a good price. I am planning to split the pills and take 10mg ED to reap the advantages it offers for those using AAS. is 10mg ample or to much/unnecessary?
> 
> Got a full blood panel done today - every thing in range and my cholesterol is prob the best its ever been (HDL: 1.53 - LDL:1.87) - i put this down to the sups i have been using. Liver, HCT etc all in range.
> 
> I also requested a PSA test (FYI last one i had was in Feb this year - 2 months into Test-E only cycle and it was 1.2 ug/L) - Since then i have been blasting from 500 up to 1g of Test E with the use of Aromasin and also a 4 week low dose Tren E for cutting cycle. I had my E2 checked today also as part of the panel and it was around 85pg/ML.
> 
> I was advised by a doctor who treats AAS users that when using high Test there is no real need to worry about E2 running a little high and that 60 to 100pg/ML is ok assuming you do not suffer with high E2 sides (which i dont). He advised that letting E2 run a little higher will assist with building muscle (which in his defence i understand is true from some study that have been done on animals). I said at the time "does E2 not interfere with prostate growth" and he replied "no, it is the Testosterone that causes this which is why regular checking is required". Now doing a little research it is apparent that E2 does play a large role in growth of the prostate along with DHT which at the moment is making me a little worried as had i known i would have kept E2 in range!
> 
> The PSA test results will be ready some time next week as they need to send it off to another lab which is annoying! however i must admit im a bit apprehensive of the results and i hope im worrying about nothing! I do have some typical symptoms of BPE however im not sure if i am overthinking and its playing with my mind. if the results come back elevated more than my last results by 50% or more can i work on keeping my E2 down (in range) + drop the test E dose a bit and then re-test in 4 weeks or so to see if any "reverse damage" has been achieved? or does it not work like this?
> 
> many thanks!


 10 mg ED is too much unless you have severe ED.

2.5-5 mg daily or 10 mg EOD/MWF

He is right that you will be okay with that level short term and if you don't feel symptoms, leave as is. He is wrong about estradiol not being involved in BPH, there is plenty of research supporting that connection. Most MDs are not up-to-date on the latest research. Your MD sounds pretty open-minded though, which is a great thing to have in a primary care physician.

If you are worried about prostate growth, do not mess with AAS because androgens/E2 are fuel for prostate hypertrophy. The best advice i can give you is to build your ideal physique , then maintain with TRT/Cruise dose.

Definitely keep your E2 in a tigher range because high test/anabolics+high E2 = fat prostate, eventually. How quickly your prostate swells up is going to come down to genetics, time on and dosage.

I can't tell you whether to drop your test dosage down or not because that's going to be your call whether you want to take the risk or not. Just note that high test means high DHT/high E2 which equals bigger prostate.

A lot of times high dose cycles will cause a transient increase in BPH symptoms due to prostatic inflammation, which goes away when you drop your dose or stop the AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Armitage Shanks said:


> @ElChapo what is your take on supplementing hyaluronic acid and collagen powder for joint pain and body repair.
> 
> Perhaps just a placebo, but for me it seems to help so much!


 There is actually research showing some efficacy, so i think you are most likely getting some benefit.



Ohara H1, et al Effects of Pro-Hyp, a collagen hydrolysate-derived peptide, on hyaluronic acid synthesis using in vitro cultured synovium cells and oral ingestion of collagen hydrolysates in a guinea pig model of osteoarthritis . Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. (2010)


Ohara H1, et al Collagen-derived dipeptide, proline-hydroxyproline, stimulates cell proliferation and hyaluronic acid synthesis in cultured human dermal fibroblasts . J Dermatol. (2010)


Kawada C, et al Ingested hyaluronan moisturizes dry skin . Nutr J. (2014)


Schwartz SR1, Park J Ingestion of BioCell Collagen(®), a novel hydrolyzed chicken sternal cartilage extract; enhanced blood microcirculation and reduced facial aging signs . Clin Interv Aging. (2012)


Yoshinari O1, et al Safety and toxicological evaluation of a novel, water-soluble undenatured type II collagen . Toxicol Mech Methods. (2013)


Trentham DE, et al Effects of oral administration of type II collagen on rheumatoid arthritis . Science. (1993)


Lugo JP, et al Undenatured type II collagen (UC-II®) for joint support: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in healthy volunteers . J Int Soc Sports Nutr. (2013)


Crowley DC, et al Safety and efficacy of undenatured type II collagen in the treatment of osteoarthritis of the knee: a clinical trial . Int J Med Sci. (2009)


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> 10 mg ED is too much unless you have severe ED.
> 
> 2.5-5 mg daily or 10 mg EOD/MWF
> 
> He is right that you will be okay with that level short term and if you don't feel symptoms, leave as is. He is wrong about estradiol not being involved in BPH, there is plenty of research supporting that connection. Most MDs are not up-to-date on the latest research. Your MD sounds pretty open-minded though, which is a great thing to have in a primary care physician.
> 
> If you are worried about prostate growth, do not mess with AAS because androgens/E2 are fuel for prostate hypertrophy. The best advice i can give you is to build your ideal physique , then maintain with TRT/Cruise dose.
> 
> Definitely keep your E2 in a tigher range because high test/anabolics+high E2 = fat prostate, eventually. How quickly your prostate swells up is going to come down to genetics, time on and dosage.
> 
> I can't tell you whether to drop your test dosage down or not because that's going to be your call whether you want to take the risk or not. Just note that high test means high DHT/high E2 which equals bigger prostate.
> 
> A lot of times high dose cycles will cause a transient increase in BPH symptoms due to prostatic inflammation, which goes away when you drop your dose or stop the AAS.


 Many thanks, good to know about cialis as it appears I have enough to run for more than a year then!

I Will keep you updated with PSA results next week.

My blood results sometimes show high Urea and creatinine which can indicate kidney failure... That said it usually is only a few points out of range and other times it can be normal so not worried about failure per se. FYI my BP is always in good normal ranges.

Can things like dehydration, High protein intake etc have these show high, giving false readings?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Many thanks, good to know about cialis as it appears I have enough to run for more than a year then!
> 
> I Will keep you updated with PSA results next week.
> 
> My blood results sometimes show high Urea and creatinine which can indicate kidney failure... That said it usually is only a few points out of range and other times it can be normal so not worried about failure per se. FYI my BP is always in good normal ranges.
> 
> Can things like dehydration, High protein intake etc have these show high, giving false readings?


 Looking forward to it, you know i love blood work.

Those who consume a lot of protein and have higher than average muscle mass and train with weights, tend to have higher BUN/creatinine.

What is your calculated GFR? Behind dehydrated will affect the test as well as you stated.


----------



## Jordan08

As we know Nandrolones are very suppressive . Do you believe suppression caused by nandrolone are dose related? A guy taking 300Mg would have less suppression effects on HPTA than taking 600Mg or it doesn't matter?


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> It's strange as there are so many different options but we tend to stick to the same few unoriginal ones all the time!


 old school I guess, eggs & oats for breakfasts my staple & has been for years. I will change it up now & again though


----------



## capo

@ElChapo when taking 500mg Tudca is is best to take as 1 or 2 doses spread throughout the day and is it okay to take at the same time as the orals


----------



## bornagod

Abc987 said:


> I'm not a sweet fan if I'm honest mate, especially not jelly babies!
> 
> It was more about replacing the eggs. fu**ing scrambled eggs every morning for over a year and I've worked up to 4 full eggs + 3 whites. I dread getting up and eating them now lol


 What about an omlette mate, i know it 's still eggs but totally different to scrambled. Chuck a bit of onion and mushrooms and bam a nice little breakfast


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo is it a waste of time running 50mg winny while in 250mg dnp should I wait to after dnp then introduce the winny?


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo could 1 get away with pinning tren ace m/w/f also would it be worth splitting my test e dose along with the tren to try and keep sides to a minimum?


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

sorry mate I got a new hr monitor and have checked a few times over last 3 days.

RHR seems to average 80-100 which I don't think is great. I don't recall it ever being this high (certainly isn't during cruise).

As you know I'm on test 150 tren 300 Epistane 20mg and t3 25mcg.

amitryptiline as well (which can increase heart rate but I can't really drop as it really helps with tension headaches).

Gunna nail diet and keep cracking on cardio, but in the meantime what do you suggest I drop?

Been on EPI just over 2 weeks and the t3 a week.

Thinking of dropping the EPI? Shall I drop t3 as well?


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo when taking 500mg Tudca is is best to take as 1 or 2 doses spread throughout the day and is it okay to take at the same time as the orals


 that is fine, doesnt matter if you split it.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo is it a waste of time running 50mg winny while in 250mg dnp should I wait to after dnp then introduce the winny?


 No, it will help keep the water off, the muscles full and strength up.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo could 1 get away with pinning tren ace m/w/f also would it be worth splitting my test e dose along with the tren to try and keep sides to a minimum?


 MWF is fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> sorry mate I got a new hr monitor and have checked a few times over last 3 days.
> 
> RHR seems to average 80-100 which I don't think is great. I don't recall it ever being this high (certainly isn't during cruise).
> 
> As you know I'm on test 150 tren 300 Epistane 20mg and t3 25mcg.
> 
> amitryptiline as well (which can increase heart rate but I can't really drop as it really helps with tension headaches).
> 
> Gunna nail diet and keep cracking on cardio, but in the meantime what do you suggest I drop?
> 
> Been on EPI just over 2 weeks and the t3 a week.
> 
> Thinking of dropping the EPI? Shall I drop t3 as well?


 If this is a cycle, don't worry about it too much. It's temporary.

If you are on cruise/trt, i would be concerned. Its most likely tren+amitryptiline.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> If this is a cycle, don't worry about it too much. It's temporary.
> 
> If you are on cruise/trt, i would be concerned. Its most likely tren+amitryptiline.


 Nah blast mate but I've got another 2 months!

Will keep an eye on it. Hopefully the increase in cardio will help over the coming weeks


----------



## Bull Terrier

ElChapo said:


> Your health and lifestyle look excellent. PCT won't do anything for you with those levels and at age 40, they are only going to continue dropping. TRT will hold your gains great if you keep traning and eating enough protein/calories to sustain it ( As long as you aren't holding insane amounts of muscle).
> 
> If you feel completely fine, libido, erections, energy, motivation and mood are great, you can consider skipping the TRT. What is your free T level? Maybe that is within a good range and is why you feel pretty good.
> 
> Coming off a cycle like that, you can expect much lower levels, possibly despite PCT as you are running harsher compounds for extended periods of time. Myself, i would consider TRT but if you are literally completely asymptomatic, may be you want to hold off on it.


 Thanks so much for reply.

I think I feel ok, but to be honest my libido has gone downhill over the years and I frequently feel tired. Motivation and mood are fine. I don't have problems losing fat when I diet, but new strength/muscle acquisition is virtually nill.

I really don't know if I am truly asymptomatic, very hard for me to tell. This is why I just don't know if I would be a candidate or not for hormone replacement therapy.

Like I said before - my free test was last measured at about 300ng/dl. So it is quite low.

Should I book an appointment with an endocrinologist?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> MWF is fine.


 Ok thanks. What about splitting the test dose, will it make a difference or is once a week fine?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Nah blast mate but I've got another 2 months!
> 
> Will keep an eye on it. Hopefully the increase in cardio will help over the coming weeks


 Yeah, finish your blast, you will be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> Thanks so much for reply.
> 
> I think I feel ok, but to be honest my libido has gone downhill over the years and I frequently feel tired. Motivation and mood are fine. I don't have problems losing fat when I diet, but new strength/muscle acquisition is virtually nill.
> 
> I really don't know if I am truly asymptomatic, very hard for me to tell. This is why I just don't know if I would be a candidate or not for hormone replacement therapy.
> 
> Like I said before - my free test was last measured at about 300ng/dl. So it is quite low.
> 
> Should I book an appointment with an endocrinologist?


 300 ng/dL is your total testosterone. Do you have your free testosterone reading? It's a lower number. If that number is normal-high you can feel good even with lower total testosterone, although total testosterone has it's own significance. Similar to T4 to T3.

Most endocrinologists are morons when it comes to andrology and TRT. 90% of the time all they do is work with diabetics and thyroid patients. If you can do research and find a TRT specialist, you will be in better hands.

Just note that your total T level predisposes you to heart disease, metabolic syndrome, and other health issues.

Testosterone isn't just about muscles, confidence, libido and energy.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Ok thanks. What about splitting the test dose, will it make a difference or is once a week fine?


 Enanthate/Cyp once a week is fine, although if you run a lower dosage and are a fast metabolizer, you could end up with lower levels at the end of the week.

x 1 per week is ideal for convenience, x 2 per week is more stable. (Less estrogen conversion)


----------



## wilko1985

@ElChapo

How does a cycle of 300mg Test Cyp and 400mg DHB sound for a lean bulk/ recomp?

Cheers

Chris


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How does a cycle of 300mg Test Cyp and 400mg DHB sound for a lean bulk/ recomp?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris


 Will work fine, you might need .5-1 mg adex per week for that test.

Lean bulk will come down to just enough caloric surplus to add lean tissue with minimal fat. Certain compounds will keep you dryer, but diet is literally 90%.


----------



## DLTBB

Any idea why I have 2 vials from the same batch stored in the same conditions and one is completely crashed and the other is fine?


----------



## ElChapo

DLTBB said:


> Any idea why I have 2 vials from the same batch stored in the same conditions and one is completely crashed and the other is fine?


 Might be the same lot, but different batch. What compound is it?

It's possible it's the same batch but the vials were stored under different conditions prior to shipping, causing one to start crashing out of solution earlier.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Looking forward to it, you know i love blood work.
> 
> Those who consume a lot of protein and have higher than average muscle mass and train with weights, tend to have higher BUN/creatinine.
> 
> What is your calculated GFR? Behind dehydrated will affect the test as well as you stated.


 Ok mate, I got PSA results today. I should prob start by saying that there are no cases of BPE or Prostate cancer in my family as far as we know. Since late last year this will be the 3rd time I have tested this, below is timeline and results (fyi I only ran my first test only Cycle for 4 months Last year and did NOT get baseline PSA tests, so nothing to compare to) :

11/11/16 - 1.15 ug/L this was after PCT roughly 12 weeks post final Test E shot.

09/02/17 - 1.2 ug/L this is around 2 months into my current cycle, at this time was running 500mg test e only and aromasin.

Today 16/06/17 - 1.21ug/L - since the last results in Feb I have run up to 1g of test EW, let my E2 rise above range as discussed before and ran a short Tren cycle for cut.

Im 31 years old, I'm no expert so please do correct me if I'm wrong but my values (while very much in "healthy" range) are typically high for my age and should be below 1 ug/L?

However what I do know is that cause for alarm is not nessasarly the actual result but if a steady upward trend is observed after each test every X months. That said mine has increased by 0.06 ug/L in 7 months. I assume this increment is so insignificant that it can naturally swing up and down by this margin quite easily?

Also another factor to consider - woke with wood this morning so the missus sorted me out. I later find out that this can cause PSA tests to show slightly elevated within a 24 hr window after ejaculations. Again may be insignificant but could have skewd the results a little.

Creatinine and urea are usually in range or some cases one or the other is slightly out but usually not by any significant margin. GFR is usually 70 to 75. This is in range but should it ideally be higher? Again BP is always very good.

Cheers pal!!


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Will work fine, you might need .5-1 mg adex per week for that test.
> 
> Lean bulk will come down to just enough caloric surplus to add lean tissue with minimal fat. Certain compounds will keep you dryer, but diet is literally 90%.


 Spot on, thanks Elchapo.

Ah yes, Aromasin will be used daily as Im insanely sensitive to Oestrogen. Normally 25mg a day at that test level and over.


----------



## Jordan08

Jatin Bhatia said:


> As we know Nandrolones are very suppressive . Do you believe suppression caused by nandrolone are dose related? A guy taking 300Mg would have less suppression effects on HPTA than taking 600Mg or it doesn't matter?


 You missed this one


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Ok mate, I got PSA results today. I should prob start by saying that there are no cases of BPE or Prostate cancer in my family as far as we know. Since late last year this will be the 3rd time I have tested this, below is timeline and results (fyi I only ran my first test only Cycle for 4 months Last year and did NOT get baseline PSA tests, so nothing to compare to) :
> 
> 11/11/16 - 1.15 ug/L this was after PCT roughly 12 weeks post final Test E shot.
> 
> 09/02/17 - 1.2 ug/L this is around 2 months into my current cycle, at this time was running 500mg test e only and aromasin.
> 
> Today 16/06/17 - 1.21ug/L - since the last results in Feb I have run up to 1g of test EW, let my E2 rise above range as discussed before and ran a short Tren cycle for cut.
> 
> Im 31 years old, I'm no expert so please do correct me if I'm wrong but my values (while very much in "healthy" range) are typically high for my age and should be below 1 ug/L?
> 
> However what I do know is that cause for alarm is not nessasarly the actual result but if a steady upward trend is observed after each test every X months. That said mine has increased by 0.06 ug/L in 7 months. I assume this increment is so insignificant that it can naturally swing up and down by this margin quite easily?
> 
> Also another factor to consider - woke with wood this morning so the missus sorted me out. I later find out that this can cause PSA tests to show slightly elevated within a 24 hr window after ejaculations. Again may be insignificant but could have skewd the results a little.
> 
> Creatinine and urea are usually in range or some cases one or the other is slightly out but usually not by any significant margin. GFR is usually 70 to 75. This is in range but should it ideally be higher? Again BP is always very good.
> 
> Cheers pal!!


 You're fine, but seriously, if you are worried about BPH, keep testosterone dosage lower and avoid strong androgens. Limit your time on and dosages.

Most men should be able to build the muscle they want and maintain on TRT-cruise dosage. Obviously, if you have aspirations of going pro or holding freak mass, this goes out the window, but for most men who want a decently muscled, aesthetic physique, this is attainable and maintanable without the need to abuse AAS year round.

Your GFR is perfectly fine, creatinine/BUN are byproducts of skeletal muscle metabolism are usually higher in people who carry more mass.

Do you know why Africans have a different GFR range than other races? Because on average they hold more skeletal muscle mass and metabolize more creatine/creatinine.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> Spot on, thanks Elchapo.
> 
> Ah yes, Aromasin will be used daily as Im insanely sensitive to Oestrogen. Normally 25mg a day at that test level and over.


 Good, out of range E2 will negate many of the benefits of testosterone in regards to health, aesthetics and mood. Glad you got that in check.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> You missed this one


 There is a dose dependent effect, however, even 25 mg of testosterone enanthate will completely shutdown the HPTA.

Higher doses and stronger compounds bind more strongly to the hypothalamus, creating a stronger suppressive effect.

Many guys don't get much testicular shrinkage off test, but tren will turn their nuts into raisins. It's all relative.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> You're fine, but seriously, if you are worried about BPH, keep testosterone dosage lower and avoid strong androgens. Limit your time on and dosages.
> 
> Most men should be able to build the muscle they want and maintain on TRT-cruise dosage. Obviously, if you have aspirations of going pro or holding freak mass, this goes out the window, but for most men who want a decently muscled, aesthetic physique, this is attainable and maintanable without the need to abuse AAS year round.
> 
> Your GFR is perfectly fine, creatinine/BUN are byproducts of skeletal muscle metabolism are usually higher in people who carry more mass.
> 
> Do you know why Africans have a different GFR range than other races? Because on average they hold more skeletal muscle mass and metabolize more creatine/creatinine.


 Thanks pal I will take heed of this advice.

IM afraid there is now another nagging thing I have discovered. Over the past 2 weeks only my right nip is feeling a little tender to touch at the time I didn't think much of it as I have never had gyno issues before. prolactin come back at 14 ng/ml and E2 85pg/ml in yesterday's blood results.

I Am going to up my aromasin now to keep e2 in range.

I Don't think I feel any lump, nips not puffy and in mirror look normal.

However If is squeeze both nipples (a fair amount of force is required and it does hurt) a very slight clear discharge comes out. I'm not sure if some small discharge of this type is normal in men if you do really squeeze hard enough or not?

I Can get the same amount of discharge to come out of my nipple that is not experiencing the tenderness.

I Have both nolva and caber on hand however I'm not sure I need to wipe out my prolactin as it is in range?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks pal I will take heed of this advice.
> 
> IM afraid there is now another nagging thing I have discovered. Over the past 2 weeks only my right nip is feeling a little tender to touch at the time I didn't think much of it as I have never had gyno issues before. prolactin come back at 14 ng/ml and E2 85pg/ml in yesterday's blood results.
> 
> I Am going to up my aromasin now to keep e2 in range.
> 
> I Don't think I feel any lump, nips not puffy and in mirror look normal.
> 
> However If is squeeze both nipples (a fair amount of force is required and it does hurt) a very slight clear discharge comes out. I'm not sure if some small discharge of this type is normal in men if you do really squeeze hard enough or not?
> 
> I Can get the same amount of discharge to come out of my nipple that is not experiencing the tenderness.
> 
> I Have both nolva and caber on hand however I'm not sure I need to wipe out my prolactin as it is in range?


 E2 is too high.

Bring your E2 down to under 60 pg/mL, 85 is too high.

If nipples are not puffy and look normal with no lumps just lower E2 and you will be fine.

Save nolvadex for actual lumps or gyno flare up.


----------



## 31205

@ElChapo can I take my tudca dose all in the morning or is it better to split the dose?


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> @ElChapo can I take my tudca dose all in the morning or is it better to split the dose?


 All at once with a meal.


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo. What is your recommended macro split for bulking?

Do you favour splitting carbs up evenly through the day or having the majority post workout?

Cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo. What is your recommended macro split for bulking?
> 
> Do you favour splitting carbs up evenly through the day or having the majority post workout?
> 
> Cheers!


 Timing is mostly irrelevant, but i like a nice spike of sugary carbs postworkout.

Protein = enough to perserve or build lean tissue. 1 g per LBM for cutting, .8 g per LMB for bulking. In LBS.

Carbs, makes up most of my calories for bulk or cut. Carbs are the main fuel source for muscle growth and action. Keeping carbs high on a cut will keep leptin levels elevated, and metabolism and strength high.

Fat, the minimum needed for flavor. This macro has no real benefit to us in a cut or bulk diet.

The most important thing in your diet is caloric balance.


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo. Do/can any steroids cause growth of facial bones/structure? If so, which ones _could _? I have heard tren being mentioned several times in this respect.
> 
> Thanks! You're a top bloke.


 Yes, during puberty you would likely see an effect. Once your growth plates are closed, no. Some men don't complete puberty until 25.

Facial structure is strongly linked to prenatal androgen exposure and genetics.


----------



## Rockstar61811

@ElChapo in uk trt usually offered is Sustanon or nebido - how best would you use these if this is all you had choice of?


----------



## GeeHFifteen

@ElChapo Would you assume expired Oxymetholone loses potency or would it still be acceptable to use?

This would be circa 3 months following expiration date.


----------



## superdrol

GeeHFifteen said:


> @ElChapo Would you assume expired Oxymetholone loses potency or would it still be acceptable to use?
> 
> This would be circa 3 months following expiration date.


 Will be fine from experience


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

500mg of sust a week alright in one jab a week


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> @ElChapo in uk trt usually offered is Sustanon or nebido - how best would you use these if this is all you had choice of?


 Nebido every 1-2 weeks. 4 weeks MAX. Dosage will depend on blood work results.

Not a fan of sustanon for TRT, the variation in half-life and pharmacokinetics of each ester is just an extra variable you have to deal with. Not a big deal when blasting for mass or cutting though.TRT

For TRT, Enanthate/Cypionate/Undeconoate are fantastic. They are cheap, easy to find and very predictable in their action.

Prop is not bad if you don't mind pinning EOD or MWF, which is not bad at all if you use 30 gauge slin pins.


----------



## ElChapo

GeeHFifteen said:


> @ElChapo Would you assume expired Oxymetholone loses potency or would it still be acceptable to use?
> 
> This would be circa 3 months following expiration date.


 Potency should be close to +90% unless stored in moist, hotter conditions or exposed to excessive light. If stored in a cool, dry, dark area it will most likely be 99%.

Most will tell you they have ran expired AAS and ancillaries with no issue, myself included. If you look up research, tabs don't lose potency very easily, even after years in storage.


----------



## SlinMeister

So you are not a fan of multiester test.... Like Test400 or Sustanon...


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 500mg of sust a week alright in one jab a week


 Yeah, but x 2 is best since the shorter esterswill be gone by the fourth day. For x 1 per week jabs, Enanthate/cypionate/undeconoate are ideal.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> So you are not a fan of multiester test.... Like Test400 or Sustanon...


 They are fine, but single esters are better. The pharmacokinetics are much more predicatable(half-life, kick in time, etc). You don't really get any extra benefit. It does the job fine though.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, but x 2 is best since the shorter esterswill be gone by the fourth day. For x 1 per week jabs, Enanthate/cypionate/undeconoate are ideal.


 Thanks mate


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> They are fine, but single esters are better. The pharmacokinetics are much more predicatable(half-life, kick in time, etc). You don't really get any extra benefit. It does the job fine though.


 Nov Dec 2016 was on 1g TestE and 500 TrenA 12.5 Aromasin Ed and was pinning TestE every day and sides from Test were easier to control! Even than just Prop ester..

Unfortunately my diet was so sloppy that in the end I got fat... But my god I was so strong!


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Nov Dec 2016 was on 1g TestE and 500 TrenA 12.5 Aromasin Ed and was pinning TestE every day and sides from Test were easier to control! Even than just Prop ester..
> 
> Unfortunately my diet was so sloppy that in the end I got fat... But my god I was so strong!


 Yep, high test/high tren is a cycle that can yield monster strength and mass gains if you have your diet and training in check and can handle the sides.

Daily dosing of test E causes incredible stability in serum levels. Increasing frequency of injections lowers the risk of over aromatization. Many HRT patient have been able to cut their AI dose in half or drop it completely by increasing injection frequency.

High Test/High Tren...It's an unwieldy cycle for many due to the exponential increase in the risk of gyno, high BP, mood issues, insomnia, cardio problems, etc, but it's effectiveness cannot be questioned. It's simple and powerful. Controlling the sides on it is it's own puzzle though.

Some guys just take very well to tren, myself included, but others react very badly. I can run tren solo with enhanced libido and erection hardness than normal, mood and energy are fantastic, but over 300 mg of ace i get gyno. I can run tren E higher with no gyno issues at all, but insomnia, appetite, BP and heartburn come into play. I have reversed tren gyno many times with raloxifene.

Test E is easier to predict versus sustanon where your prop and phenylprop cause a quick spike in E2, while the E2 slowly increases form the deconate. You might have E2 in check initially, but when the deconate ester reaches full peak, E2 levels will change again. Test levels are all over the place. Sust is a great product regardless as test IS test, but there is no real benefit over single esters. Most people will run it with no issues but don't believe there is some inherent benefit to it.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, but x 2 is best since the shorter esterswill be gone by the fourth day. For x 1 per week jabs, Enanthate/cypionate/undeconoate are ideal.


 Damn I've just went out and bought my Test 400 as it worked out cheaper. I wondered why it was much cheaper than buying test e 250.

I'm looking 300mg a week so going to pin 0.75ml of test400. With the short ester should I be splitting it in half or just 0.75ml once a week will be suffice.

I'm also going to start on 0.5 mg adex once a week but people are saying due to its half life I will need to take it twice a week. Will 2x 0.5mg adex be overkill on 300mg test


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Damn I've just went out and bought my Test 400 as it worked out cheaper. I wondered why it was much cheaper than buying test e 250.
> 
> I'm looking 300mg a week so going to pin 0.75ml of test400. With the short ester should I be splitting it in half or just 0.75ml once a week will be suffice.
> 
> I'm also going to start on 0.5 mg adex once a week but people are saying due to its half life I will need to take it twice a week. Will 2x 0.5mg adex be overkill on 300mg test


 Results will be the same, test is test. It's a neglible difference and the fact that you payed less is a benefit.

x 2 per week for sustanon and it will be pretty stable. You can take adex once a week, it works fine. You can add another .5 mg if you still need to knock E2 down further.

Most people will need .5-1.5 mg of adex on 300 mg per week. 1.5 mg being for the hyper aromatizers. I would use 1 mg adex myself.


----------



## 18650

Is it possible to use the time cruising to cut? I plan on cruising for 8 weeks in a month or so and planned on running testosterone enanthate at 300mg per week as the cruising dosage. Is 300mg per week enough to preserve muscle mass while cutting on an aggressive deficit?


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Is it possible to use the time cruising to cut? I plan on cruising for 8 weeks in a month or so and planned on running testosterone enanthate at 300mg per week as the cruising dosage. Is 300mg per week enough to preserve muscle mass while cutting on an aggressive deficit?


 Yeah, 300 mg will do fine to preserve muscle. Don't go over 30% deficit and you won't lose muscle. 30% is when hunger, strength, and mood take a big hit. You can get away with more but i would rather you add a fat burner like DNP, clen, EC, or yohimbine than cut calories further.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, 300 mg will do fine to preserve muscle. Don't go over 30% deficit and you won't lose muscle. 30% is when hunger, strength, and mood take a big hit. You can get away with more but i would rather you add a fat burner like DNP, clen, EC, or yohimbine than cut calories further.


 Thank you so much for your advice once again ElChapo. This is the greatest thread we've had on this board. I'm too afraid of using fat burners such as clen, DNP, ECA or yohimbine etc. I'm afraid of pushing my heart any harder than it's already likely working!


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Thank you so much for your advice once again ElChapo. This is the greatest thread we've had on this board. I'm too afraid of using fat burners such as clen, DNP, ECA or yohimbine etc. I'm afraid of pushing my heart any harder than it's already likely working!


 Not an issue, you don't need them to lose fat. I don't use them myself anymore, but my cuts only last 4-6 weeks now since i stay under 10% year round.

DNP won't strain your heart, so consider it. It's fairly safe if you stick to 250 mg daily.

Thank you for the kind words, happy to share my knowledge with you guys. I've really enjoyed my time here.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> Not an issue, you don't need them to lose fat. I don't use them myself anymore, but my cuts only last 4-6 weeks now since i stay under 10% year round.
> 
> DNP won't strain your heart, so consider it. It's fairly safe if you stick to 250 mg daily.


 So DNP works via different pathways, interesting, I might give it a try after further research. Thank you for all your contributions here, you're a true gent.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> So DNP works via different pathways, interesting, I might give it a try after further research. Thank you for all your contributions here, you're a true gent.


 Exactly, it doesn't work through the beta or alpha andrenergic receptors, so it does not directly stimulate the heart. Anytime brother.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Can we deline a full protocol for an high Test high Tren cycle?

I think that TestE + TrenA + AI Will be the best since AI will lower SHBG....

So add/correct me... We talked in pvt already but I would run:

8-12w

1050 TestE (1ml eod)

525 TrenA (1.5ml eod)

Or 1050 TrenE (1.5ml eod for very experienced people)

5-10iu HGH ed

1mg Adex/25mg Aromasin eod (1 pill every 300mg TestE)

0.5mg Dostinex M F (Prolactine control)

What for BP? (Propanolol? Catapresan? How much? Before bed)

Thanks as always.


----------



## Jordan08

As you suggested use of Nizoral over DHT blockers for people who are concerned with MPB.

Do you think addition of Zinc Pyrithione shampoo would be a good addition?

So, Nizoral and Zinc shampoo thrice a week each and minoxidil 5% daily should cover things from all angle?

In addition, Test can be used at TRT dose with other compounds?

Does it seem like a safe approach?


----------



## SlinMeister

Jatin Bhatia said:


> As you suggested use of Nizoral over DHT blockers for people who are concerned with MPB.
> 
> Do you think addition of Zinc Pyrithione shampoo would be a good addition?
> 
> So, Nizoral and Zinc shampoo thrice a week each and minoxidil 5% daily should cover things from all angle?
> 
> In addition, Test can be used at TRT dose with other compounds?
> 
> Does it seem like a safe approach?


 This is safe approach....

AAS than you can add are all that doesn't convert to DHT... Test Anadrol Winstrol are absolutely a NO GO, for MPB.

A friend of mine did bloods on high test and no test high Anadrol and high Winstrol and serum DHT were 700+....

I think that EQ, Deca, PrimoE (should not convert to Dht) will be safe for MPB.


----------



## Jordan08

SlinMeister said:


> This is safe approach....
> 
> AAS than you can add are all that doesn't convert to DHT... Test Anadrol Winstrol are absolutely a NO GO, for MPB.
> 
> A friend of mine did bloods on high test and no test high Anadrol and high Winstrol and serum DHT were 700+....
> 
> I think that EQ, Deca, PrimoE (should not convert to Dht) will be safe for MPB.


 EQ converts to DHT mildly. Though Deca converts to DHN


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

hey brother, got some bloods back and noticed dhea was low (2.8 umol/l ----- range 4.8-13.9), should i be worried of this? if so how do i raise it ?


----------



## kasabian19

Jatin Bhatia said:


> EQ converts to DHT mildly. Though Deca converts to DHN


 Eq converts to DHB (dihydroboldenone).

DHN is less androgenic than Deca so is of no issue.


----------



## kasabian19

SlinMeister said:


> This is safe approach....
> 
> AAS than you can add are all that doesn't convert to DHT... Test Anadrol Winstrol are absolutely a NO GO, for MPB.
> 
> A friend of mine did bloods on high test and no test high Anadrol and high Winstrol and serum DHT were 700+....
> 
> I think that EQ, Deca, PrimoE (should not convert to Dht) will be safe for MPB.


 Primo won't convert because it is a DHT derivative. I'd avoid all DHT based steroids if you lookin to avoid hair loss.

Low dose test + deca and tbol as an oral and you'll be fine.


----------



## SlinMeister

kasabian19 said:


> Primo won't convert because it is a DHT derivative. I'd avoid all DHT based steroids if you lookin to avoid hair loss.
> 
> Low dose test + deca and tbol as an oral and you'll be fine.


 Lovely recipe!

He won't look like a water buffalo! Full and tight love that cycle.


----------



## JohhnyC

Important one I never thought about

MT2 and long term use (5 - 10 years) , especially liver, kidneys etc Anything to be concerned about?


----------



## RRSUK

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> any real difference between 500mg of test e and 600mg


 Yeah 100mg :whistling:

In all seriousness I'd say a 20% increase would yield noticeably better results.


----------



## Tonynico

RRSUK said:


> Yeah 100mg :whistling:
> 
> In all seriousness I'd say a 20% increase would yield noticeably better results.


 Lol stupid question tbh deleted it mate :lol:


----------



## DORIAN

Elchapo. Iv heard you recommend longish cycles 14 weeks etc. But I really seem to stop growing after 8/9

Any idea why this might be. Test E/C

EVen if I eat more cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> EQ converts to DHT mildly. Though Deca converts to DHN


 EQ converts to DHB, not DHT. Dihydroboldenone instead of dihydrotestosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Can we deline a full protocol for an high Test high Tren cycle?
> 
> I think that TestE + TrenA + AI Will be the best since AI will lower SHBG....
> 
> So add/correct me... We talked in pvt already but I would run:
> 
> 8-12w
> 
> 1050 TestE (1ml eod)
> 
> 525 TrenA (1.5ml eod)
> 
> Or 1050 TrenE (1.5ml eod for very experienced people)
> 
> 5-10iu HGH ed
> 
> 1mg Adex/25mg Aromasin eod (1 pill every 300mg TestE)
> 
> 0.5mg Dostinex M F (Prolactine control)
> 
> What for BP? (Propanolol? Catapresan? How much? Before bed)
> 
> Thanks as always.


 Looks good, keep propanolol and raloxifene on hand in case of gyno. Dose will depend on how high your BP is and how you respond to the drug.

Tren does not raise prolactin, but dopamine agonists can mitigate many of the effects. This is how the tren/prolactin myth came about.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey brother, got some bloods back and noticed dhea was low (2.8 umol/l ----- range 4.8-13.9), should i be worried of this? if so how do i raise it ?


 Supplement 50 mg daily, you can get it OTC. It should bring you back into range, if it's too high, do 25 mg daily. Too much DHEA will convert to E2 in men.

Many times chronic stress can lower DHEA levels, some people naturally have it lower and it goes down with age/


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> As you suggested use of Nizoral over DHT blockers for people who are concerned with MPB.
> 
> Do you think addition of Zinc Pyrithione shampoo would be a good addition?
> 
> So, Nizoral and Zinc shampoo thrice a week each and minoxidil 5% daily should cover things from all angle?
> 
> In addition, Test can be used at TRT dose with other compounds?
> 
> Does it seem like a safe approach?


 No need for the zinc shampoo, nizoral is better and you probably won't get an additive effect. Zinc shampoo has been shown to thin hair follicles while nizoral makes them thicker.

I use nizoral daily as prophylaxis, 5 mins in the shower then rinse. x 2 a week has been shown to be effective in the studies.

Test at TRT dose is needed just for the fact that it's required for optimal health. I would stick to low dose test and NPP/Deca if you have MPB issues.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> This is safe approach....
> 
> AAS than you can add are all that doesn't convert to DHT... Test Anadrol Winstrol are absolutely a NO GO, for MPB.
> 
> A friend of mine did bloods on high test and no test high Anadrol and high Winstrol and serum DHT were 700+....
> 
> I think that EQ, Deca, PrimoE (should not convert to Dht) will be safe for MPB.


 If the test is ECLIA assay, DHT derived compounds may show up as DHT. In the ECLIA test, nandrolone shows up as test, and tren shows up as E2.

Stick to deca, it will do the job fine. Diet and training build physiques, AAS jusst help you do it faster and past the level you can could attain without them.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Important one I never thought about
> 
> MT2 and long term use (5 - 10 years) , especially liver, kidneys etc Anything to be concerned about?


 Don't go over 2 mg and keep an eye on labs every 6 months and you should be fine.

There are reports of toxicity but dosage was x 3 over the maximum recommended amount.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Don't go over 2 mg and keep an eye on labs every 6 months and you should be fine.
> 
> There are reports of toxicity but dosage was x 3 over the maximum recommended amount.


 2mg per week? Per single shot?


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Elchapo. Iv heard you recommend longish cycles 14 weeks etc. But I really seem to stop growing after 8/9
> 
> Any idea why this might be. Test E/C
> 
> EVen if I eat more cheers


 Gains might slow down, but they don't stop. Due to gene expression, the most noticeable changes in body composition tend to happen around 8-12 weeks with AAS. This has been document in studies with TRT/Testosterone supplementation. You can keep making gains just fine, but you will see the biggest results in those 8-12 weeks.

It's due to gene expression, the body is also known to upregulate myostatin in response to AAS, so there is some form of downregulatory effect on lean tissue accrual going on, but like i stated previously, with progressive overload training and nutrition, you will keep adding tissue.

It's up to you whether you want to take a break, or continue the cycle. Personally, i like to keep the momentum going for a little while longer but it's a preference thing. Some prefer 12 weeks cycles, other guys blast for 6 months. People have built great physiques using either method. Experiment and see what works for you, but don' think 12 weeks is a magic number where gains stop and health deteriorates if you extend the cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> 2mg per week? Per single shot?


 Daily 2 mg, but honestly this would be more of a loading dose. You want to take as little as you need to maintain the tan you want.


----------



## SlinMeister

Is there any benefit from using 300mg TestE to 1050 to 2100&#8230;?

Igf1 won't rise that much....

The only benefits from the research will be more fatburning effect (but they talk of 600mg)

What's the point then of running so much test? Aren't anabolics better?


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Gains might slow down, but they don't stop. Due to gene expression, the most noticeable changes in body composition tend to happen around 8-12 weeks with AAS. This has been document in studies with TRT/Testosterone supplementation. You can keep making gains just fine, but you will see the biggest results in those 8-12 weeks.
> 
> It's due to gene expression, the body is also known to upregulate myostatin in response to AAS, so there is some form of downregulatory effect on lean tissue accrual going on, but like i stated previously, with progressive overload training and nutrition, you will keep adding tissue.
> 
> It's up to you whether you want to take a break, or continue the cycle. Personally, i like to keep the momentum going for a little while longer but it's a preference thing. Some prefer 12 weeks cycles, other guys blast for 6 months. People have built great physiques using either method. Experiment and see what works for you, but don' think 12 weeks is a magic number where gains stop and health deteriorates if you extend the cycle.


 Alays just feel like I'm spinning my wheels after 8/9 weeks. Think I will stick a while longer. What do you make of 6 week prop cycles mate?

Thanks for your advice


----------



## GeeHFifteen

ElChapo said:


> Potency should be close to +90% unless stored in moist, hotter conditions or exposed to excessive light. If stored in a cool, dry, dark area it will most likely be 99%.
> 
> Most will tell you they have ran expired AAS and ancillaries with no issue, myself included. If you look up research, tabs don't lose potency very easily, even after years in storage.


 Thank you for the advice, would the same advice apply to different types of medicine such as Isotretinoin (Accutane)?

These usually tend to be in capsules, whether that plays a role though I'm not entirely sure.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Is there any benefit from using 300mg TestE to 1050 to 2100&#8230;?
> 
> Igf1 won't rise that much....
> 
> The only benefits from the research will be more fatburning effect (but they talk of 600mg)
> 
> What's the point then of running so much test? Aren't anabolics better?


 More strength, More mass. Most pros are using +1 gram test. It just works, we don't know all the mechanisms and pathways behind testosterone induced muscle growth, but there's more to is than IGF-1.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Alays just feel like I'm spinning my wheels after 8/9 weeks. Think I will stick a while longer. What do you make of 6 week prop cycles mate?
> 
> Thanks for your advice


 I would rather extend that to 8 weeks personally. I like bulk/cut cycles of 8-12 weeks, this is when you can see noticeable changes in physique regardless of AAS use.

Increasing training intensity and keeping calories high should be the major driving force in your muscle growth. Not AAS doses or stacks(until required)


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Daily 2 mg, but honestly this would be more of a loading dose. You want to take as little as you need to maintain the tan you want.


 Cheers mate, we discussed it on here before.

Seems that some individuals can build a high tolerance to it. I need to use 1.5mg we just to maintain a light tan.

Tried different suppliers and seems same issue.


----------



## ElChapo

GeeHFifteen said:


> Thank you for the advice, would the same advice apply to different types of medicine such as Isotretinoin (Accutane)?
> 
> These usually tend to be in capsules, whether that plays a role though I'm not entirely sure.


 Yes.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Cheers mate, we discussed it on here before.
> 
> Seems that some individuals can build a high tolerance to it. I need to use 1.5mg we just to maintain a light tan.
> 
> Tried different suppliers and seems same issue.


 You should be okay, just keep an eye on labs every once in a while. Some people are more sensitive to toxicities of drugs due to differences in liver enzyme activity and other individual differences in drug metabolism. It's genetic. Another factor is recreational drug use and baseline health.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> You should be okay, just keep an eye on labs every once in a while. Some people are more sensitive to toxicities of drugs due to differences in liver enzyme activity and other individual differences in drug metabolism. It's genetic. Another factor is recreational drug use and baseline health.


 Yeah I'm just looking for a light tan. I want to use as little MT2 as possible. My main concern was the toxicity as I did a blood tests last week. Results came back today and liver values were high. The blood test was for work purposes and came up at the last minute (visa) However liver values came in at:

ALT: 73.5 (5 - 40)

AST:45.2 (8-40)

Now I had started a TTM 375 cycle and had done 2 x 1 ml shots on 8 days and 4 days previous to test. I had also taken oxy 25mg for 5 days and stopped 4 days before (the day I heard I had to do a blood test).

My lifestyle is quite healthy so I was putting it down to the orals but given it was only 5 days, I was surprised it was high. I was wondering if MT2 had an impact?

In any case I have dropped the oxy now


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Yeah I'm just looking for a light tan. I want to use as little MT2 as possible. My main concern was the toxicity as I did a blood tests last week. Results came back today and liver values were high. The blood test was for work purposes and came up at the last minute (visa) However liver values came in at:
> 
> ALT: 73.5 (5 - 40)
> 
> AST:45.2 (8-40)
> 
> Now I had started a TTM 375 cycle and had done 2 x 1 ml shots on 8 days and 4 days previous to test. I had also taken oxy 25mg for 5 days and stopped 4 days before (the day I heard I had to do a blood test).
> 
> My lifestyle is quite healthy so I was putting it down to the orals but given it was only 5 days, I was surprised it was high. I was wondering if MT2 had an impact?
> 
> In any case I have dropped the oxy now


 Tren can elevated enzymes a bit, and you took a 17-alkylated AAS. Even training can elevate liver enzymes. You are fine.

You don't even have to drop the oxy, those liver values are fine for what you are taking, and you can add some TUDCA.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

What do you think about Ameen Alai usage of Anadrol?

75mg Anadrol eod

The other days 40mg Anavar

Sunday off orals.

To me seems really nice and side effects free.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about Ameen Alai usage of Anadrol?
> 
> 75mg Anadrol eod
> 
> The other days 40mg Anavar
> 
> Sunday off orals.
> 
> To me seems really nice and side effects free.


 pointless micromanaging. Just run them together daily.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Tren can elevated enzymes a bit, and you took a 17-alkylated AAS. Even training can elevate liver enzymes. You are fine.
> 
> You don't even have to drop the oxy, those liver values are fine for what you are taking, and you can add some TUDCA.


 Brilliant, thanks man!


----------



## capo

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on 50mg a day of lycopene for cholesterol when running something bad for lipids like winstrol for example


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on 50mg a day of lycopene for cholesterol when running something bad for lipids like winstrol for example


 Won't do s**t. Lipids will get wrecked regardless, just run your cycle and don't worry about it, but don't stay on year round on harsh drugs that trash lipids and liver, and always keep up your cardiovascular conditioning.

Remember, it's not acute but chronic changes in health parameters that do damage. Take blood glucose for instance, big spikes are virtually harmless, but chronic hyperglycemia is toxic to the kidneys, blood vessels, etc. It takes years for this to happen.

Acute stress via exercise has many health benefits, but chronic stress is terrible for you. It's all relative. Chronic dyslipidemia will increase your risk of heart disease, transient changes over a few weeks won't cause any long term damage.


----------



## capo

ElChapo said:


> Won't do s**t. Lipids will get wrecked regardless, just run your cycle and don't worry about it, but don't stay on year round on harsh drugs that trash lipids and liver.


 Would it help restore them post cycle quicker


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> Would it help restore them post cycle quicker


 No, 4-8 weeks for lipids to come back to normal.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ghost.recon your friend @ElChapo wrote somewhere (can't find it)

Your current cycle involving 150 TestE 300 TrenE Eq Bold Cyp and DHB.

Can you please explain it and give us some doses back?

I am really curious to try also that


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> My current blast is as follows per week:
> 150mg Testosterone Enanthate
> 300mg Trenbolone Enanthate
> 1200mg Boldenone Undecylenate
> 200mg Boldenone Cypionate
> 600mg Dihydroboldenone Cypionate


 @SlinMeister


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> @SlinMeister


 And your current pics too


----------



## Annonad

Hi could 50mg stanazolol a day cause a dot in my vision? Its like seeing stars after looking at a bright light but has been there for 2 days now, currently on day 11, my purpose is to retain muscle whilst shredding. Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> And your current pics too


 Ghost is fu**ing yoked, as we say in the US.

It's really not that hard. Eat surplus, train right, use AAS = gains

@ghost.recon


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Ghost is fu**ing yoked, as we say in the US.
> 
> It's really not that hard. Eat surplus, train right, use AAS = gains
> 
> @ghost.recon


 I think for a lot of us we see advice like "it's diet and genetics, 300mg tedt and 200mg tren in a surplus will make you grow just fine"...... And then you post up your blast cycle which looks insane lol. So we must then think that more aas =more gains. Plus a lot of guys look the same now as three years ago after blasting and cruising so want to know where they are going wrong.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I think for a lot of us we see advice like "it's diet and genetics, 300mg tedt and 200mg tren in a surplus will make you grow just fine"...... And then you post up your blast cycle which looks insane lol. So we must then think that more aas =more gains. Plus a lot of guys look the same now as three years ago after blasting and cruising so want to know where they are going wrong.


 Obviously, bigger, more experience = higher doses. Most guys aren't trying to look like pro bodybuilders, they want to look good naked for women, etc. Even those aspiring to be bodybuilders don't need to use higher doses until later, and before that most need to get their diet and training in place. Most guys *think *they have their diet and training down pat, how wrong they are...

Then you take genetics into consideration, some guys respond a lot more to less AAS per mg, others do not.


----------



## stewedw

Very true. I suppose if you are on 500mg test and not growing then you assume that another compound or another few mg will help, as you might not respond as well as a mate that's on the same gear, diet, training. Is this why people's first cycle often yields the best gains?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Very true. I suppose if you are on 500mg test and not growing then you assume that another compound or another few mg will help, as you might not respond as well as a mate that's on the same gear, diet, training. Is this why people's first cycle often yields the best gains?


 Higher doses = more gains, if diet and training are in place. Higher doses+bad nutrition/training = waste of money, time and health. I know guys who blast a gram of tren and they don't look like they lift.

So many guys don't eat enough to grow, or train like s**t, so they need increase their doses prematurely to make up for it and a lot of times it works, but that subpar training and nutrition will be a crutch until they get their s**t together.

Some guys blessed with great genetics don't need to do much and will blow up on AAS if they just eat and pump their muscles up.


----------



## ElChapo

For instance, most men neglect progressive style-strength training in their programs. This is essential for continuing to achieve lean growth, there is no better stimulus than progressively overloading the muscle with increased weights and reps. There is too much focus on pump-style training for which gains plateau fairly quickly. The best style of training for lean mass gain will incorporate progressive overload/strength training and bodybuilding style/high volume training with isolation exercises. Most people shy away from it as the intensity, dedication and toughness it requires is too much for them or they don't realize how beneficial it will be to achieving their goals.

Get yourself a +405 lbs squat, ass-to-grass/+315 lbs bench press, chest-to-full lockout for reps+lots of machine/leg press work/isolation work, eat enough calories, and you will explode to the best of your genetics.

With the time and sheer amount of will and intensity that it takes to build up these lifts, do you think professional bodybuilders would dedicate so much time and effort to them if there was no pay off to their physical development?

Examples of Physiques built by incorporating progressive overload/strength training on top of high volume/isolation work:



























































https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BSQebcMAzeN/?taken-by=ulissesworld%26hl=en


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

how long can I get away with jabbing glutes for once a week sometimes 2 before I have to rotate


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> how long can I get away with jabbing glutes for once a week sometimes 2 before I have to rotate


 Once a week you will be fine. I find 7 days between sites is enough to keep them fresh, but i would look into find some other spots you like. Many times, it's just a matter of practice before you begin to favor new sites. That way, if the glutes are feeling a bit on the overused side or you ever up your dosages/injection frequency, you have that option of switching to more sites.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Once a week you will be fine. I find 7 days between sites is enough to keep them fresh, but i would look into find some other spots you like. Many times, it's just a matter of practice before you begin to favor new sites. That way, if the glutes are feeling a bit on the overused side or you ever up your dosages/injection frequency, you have that option of switching to more sites.


 Ok thanks mate just shits me up thinking of pinning anywhere else lol was thinking ventro glute because I want to get rid of this sust took your advice and got some test e :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Ok thanks mate just shits me up thinking of pinning anywhere else lol was thinking ventro glute because I want to get rid of this sust took your advice and got some test e :thumb


 Ventroglute is smooth as silk once you get find and know where it is. (usually easier when you are leaner)

My personal favorite are lateral delts, upper/lower pecs (you need decent mass for this), ventroglutes, and outer/upper quads.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Ventroglute is smooth as silk once you get find and know where it is. (usually easier when you are leaner)
> 
> My personal favorite are lateral delts, upper/lower pecs (you need decent mass for this), ventroglutes, and outer/upper quads.


 Yea is it right above the hip bone going try pin 1ml of sust in about an hour as lats and chest f**k that lol nuttah


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Yea is it right above the hip bone going try pin 1ml of sust in about an hour as lats and chest f**k that lol nuttah


 It's actually under the hip bone, try to go toward the middle of your side glute, find some meat and inject. Lats and traps i haven't tried. @ghost.recon likes tricep injections.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> It's actually under the hip bone, try to go toward the middle of your glute, find some meat and inject. Lats and traps i haven't tried. @ghost.recon likes tricep injections.


 Ok buddy thank you will try this and lol il stick to these spots from now on thanks for the advice never learned so much from this thread thanks mate got a lot of notes


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Ok buddy thank you will try this and lol il stick to these spots from now on thanks for the advice never learned so much from this thread thanks mate got a lot of notes


 Anytime brother, my pleasure.


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> I would hope this guy has tried tren before at a lower dosage ie. 300 mg per week max to assess tolerance for gyno and mental side effects.
> 
> If you want to shred fat as fast as possible in a fairly safe manner, my recommended protocol is 250 mg DNP daily+ephedrine or yohimbine. 30% caloric deficit. 4 weeks.
> 
> 250 mg DNP will have low sides/health risk. Ephedrine will accelerate fat loss further and blunt appetite as well as help overcome DNP induced lethargy. Once you reach 10% bodyfat, switch out ephedrine for yohimbine to accelerate stubborn fat deposit lipolysis. Do this for 4 weeks.


 How Affective would the Yohimbine be and would you need t3 when running dnp?


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> How Affective would the Yohimbine be and would you need t3 when running dnp?


 Yohimbine binds to the alpha receptors in stubborn fat and blocks them making the fat easier to burn.

It's very effective as a standalone fat burner and especially effective for stubborn fat at single digits.

No need for T3 with DNP, if you have to add anything, go with EC stack. Extra energy, appetite suppression and fat burning.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> For instance, most men neglect progressive style-strength training in their programs. This is essential for continuing to achieve lean growth, there is no better stimulus than progressively overloading the muscle with increased weights and reps. There is too much focus on pump-style training for which gains plateau fairly quickly. The best style of training for lean mass gain will incorporate progressive overload/strength training and bodybuilding style/high volume training with isolation exercises. Most people shy away from it as the intensity, dedication and toughness it requires is too much for them or they don't realize how beneficial it will be to achieving their goals.
> 
> Get yourself a +405 lbs squat, ass-to-grass/+315 lbs bench press, chest-to-full lockout for reps+lots of machine/leg press work/isolation work, eat enough calories, and you will explode to the best of your genetics.
> 
> With the time and sheer amount of will and intensity that it takes to build up these lifts, do you think professional bodybuilders would dedicate so much time and effort to them if there was no pay off to their physical development?
> 
> Examples of Physiques built by incorporating progressive overload/strength training on top of high volume/isolation work:
> 
> View attachment 142962
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> 
> View attachment 142967
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> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BSQebcMAzeN/?taken-by=ulissesworld%26hl=en


 So true. Many people do progressive overloads on their stack and dosages rather than in their training.

What are views on progressive overload?. Do you do progressive overload through weights or sets/reps?


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> It's actually under the hip bone, try to go toward the middle of your side glute, find some meat and inject. Lats and traps i haven't tried. @ghost.recon likes tricep injections.


 Triceps are the only site I ever found comfortable for injecting suspension with a 21G needle. Just throwing that out there. Found it a really nice meaty site.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Yohimbine binds to the alpha receptors in stubborn fat and blocks them making the fat easier to burn.
> 
> It's very effective as a standalone fat burner and especially effective for stubborn fat at single digits.
> 
> No need for T3 with DNP, if you have to add anything, go with EC stack. Extra energy, appetite suppression and fat burning.


 Where do you buy this and what should the advert say? Ie, Yohimbine hcl 2.5mg caps? Saw this on ebay etc. And would 250mg dnp per day alongside be overkill?


----------



## superdrol

So @ElChapo you've told us all how to use everything and anything, what's your current routine, days, sets/reps and frequency out of interest, same to @ghost.recon

just out of curiosity!


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo Do you think there is a risk to loose muscle with SEO ? I talk with palumbo and I always been agree with him, however, he's owner of a SEO brand so can we trust what he says "there is not problem by injection quality SEO, its nothing of pharma quality oil (caprilic acid, mct etc...) ?

" I already used SEO in calves with very nice results and didnt notice any muscle loss after a year but at the contrary, good improvment on the size. Is there a risk about muscle "feeding" nutriment impact when you inject oil+silica ? and what about kidneys ? ( smart protocol use with long time off period without injecting seo)

2-Is there a real benefit to use berberine or metformin for our bodybuilders ?

thanks a lot


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

ok to stay on 500mg of test e for 16 weeks if gains are still good and I feel healthy and il get bloods done after or is it pointless to stay on that long will be crusing after


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> So true. Many people do progressive overloads on their stack and dosages rather than in their training.
> 
> What are views on progressive overload?. Do you do progressive overload through weights or sets/reps?


 Exactly

Either reps or weight increase will stimulate muscle growth. Staying within the 3-12 rep range is optimal. Lower ranges are more for deadlifts and barbell movements.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Exactly
> 
> Either reps or weight increase will stimulate muscle growth. Staying within the 3-12 rep range is optimal. Lower ranges are more for deadlifts and barbell movements.


 @ElChapo

Can you make an example of one of yours workout?

Usually I do every exercise in that style: 12 - 10 - 8 - 6+6+6

Last set is a dropset, usually done on machinery.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Where do you buy this and what should the advert say? Ie, Yohimbine hcl 2.5mg caps? Saw this on ebay etc. And would 250mg dnp per day alongside be overkill?


 Not overkill, 250 mg DNP is a good dose.

By law, yohimbine HCl caps can only contain 2.5 mg per serving. Make sure it's *Yohimbine* HCl and *Yohimbe. *People get them mixed up all the time.

Yohimbine HCl is the active alkaloid in the herb, like caffeine is to coffee.

Yohimbe is the actual herb, like coffee itself.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> So @ElChapo you've told us all how to use everything and anything, what's your current routine, days, sets/reps and frequency out of interest, same to @ghost.recon
> 
> just out of curiosity!


 I train each muscle group only once a week, i mix up my movements for fun. IE for chest i do weighted dips or flat bench press and add isolation movements like db incline bench, for legs ; barbell ATG squats or leg press ; for back weighted chin ups or barbell rows+curls for arms, etc. Deadlifts for overall strength, thickness, back/legs/traps/forearms. Rep ranges will vary between 3-15 reps.

I just maintain at this point, i've already built all the mass and strength i could want. Typically, i do 3 days of strength training and on the other 4 days i train MMA/Boxing/Wrestling/ETC. Maintenance is much easier than building up lean mass. I stay around 7-9% year round fairly easily, but i attribute that to my daily exercise and eating sensibly(mostly moderate protein/moderate carbs/low fat).


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo Do you think there is a risk to loose muscle with SEO ? I talk with palumbo and I always been agree with him, however, he's owner of a SEO brand so can we trust what he says "there is not problem by injection quality SEO, its nothing of pharma quality oil (caprilic acid, mct etc...) ?
> 
> " I already used SEO in calves with very nice results and didnt notice any muscle loss after a year but at the contrary, good improvment on the size. Is there a risk about muscle "feeding" nutriment impact when you inject oil+silica ? and what about kidneys ? ( smart protocol use with long time off period without injecting seo)
> 
> 2-Is there a real benefit to use berberine or metformin for our bodybuilders ?
> 
> thanks a lot


 I don't see a way in which SEO will decrease muscle mass, you may get scar tissue formation. I don't see it hurting the kidneys either. There's nothing in there that would do that.

Berberine/metformin will increase muscle insulin sensitivity and potentiate the effect of insulin as seen in diabetic patients. This is great for helping muscles absorb nutrients. Metformin has been shown to inhibit mTOR, a very important pathway for skeletal muscle growth, and can even decrease testosterone, however, someone using AAS won't have to worry about these effects.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> ok to stay on 500mg of test e for 16 weeks if gains are still good and I feel healthy and il get bloods done after or is it pointless to stay on that long will be crusing after


 Yeah, 500 mg testosterone is fairly mild. If BP/HR and labwork looks good, even more so. Just keep an eye on hematocrit, that will be your biggest concern. You want it at 52% MAX, donating blood will bring it down by 3% if you're lucky but you might not even need to.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Can you make an example of one of yours workout?
> 
> Usually I do every exercise in that style: 12 - 10 - 8 - 6+6+6
> 
> Last set is a dropset, usually done on machinery.


 See my post above.

Drop sets are good stimulus for AAS enhanced bodybuilders, but if you haven't incorporate classic barbell/powerlifting type movements with progressive overload you are missing out. Deadlifts, squats (all the way down), bench press (touch chest-full lockout) are essential to building your physique to it's maximum potential.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> I train each muscle group only once a week, i mix up my movements for fun. IE for chest i do weighted dips or flat bench press and add isolation movements like db incline bench, for legs ; barbell ATG squats or leg press ; for back weighted chin ups or barbell rows+curls for arms, etc. Deadlifts for overall strength, thickness, back/legs/traps/forearms. Rep ranges will vary between 3-15 reps.
> 
> I just maintain at this point, i've already built all the mass and strength i could want. Typically, i do 3 days of strength training and on the other 4 days i train MMA/Boxing/Wrestling/ETC. Maintenance is much easier than building up lean mass. I stay around 7-9% year round fairly easily, but i attribute that to my daily exercise and eating sensibly(mostly moderate protein/moderate carbs/low fat).


 So if you were starting again and had to build muscle from an average guy how would you train? Body parts twice a week?? Dropsets and supersets?

how would you train for maximum growth given your time all over again??


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, 500 mg testosterone is fairly mild. If BP/HR and labwork looks good, even more so. Just keep an eye on hematocrit, that will be your biggest concern. You want it at 52% MAX, donating blood will bring it down by 3% if you're lucky but you might not even need to.


 Ok mate do you think I should donate blood straight away after or before next blast


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> So if you were starting again and had to build muscle from an average guy how would you train? Body parts twice a week?? Dropsets and supersets?
> 
> how would you train for maximum growth given your time all over again??


 Hit muscle groups twice a week, three times a week for lagging body parts.

Always focus on increasing weights or reps on all movements, but with perfect form. This not only to prevent injury but to maximize muscle growth. (bottom of a chin up trains lats, top half trains biceps. Bottom of bench trains chest/delts, lockout trains triceps)

Use the main barbell movements as your base+accesory/isolation movements with high volume for extra growth or periodize a couple of months of pure powerlifting style training with bodybuilding high volume style splits.

As long as you practice progressive overload+extra volume with isolation exercises and eat enough calories, you will grow. The routine you choose doesn't matter as long as it applies these basic principles.

Guys arent using progressive overload enough to continue making progress and break plateaus. They think their cycle stopped working because they stop seeing increase in mass, but they havent tried bumping up their weights or workout intensity.

If you increase your dumbbell bicep curls from 50 lbs for 8 reps to 60 lbs for 8 reps, your biceps will grow to adapt to that stimulus. (I mean perfect form. minimal elbow movement curls, no swing like you see in the gym)


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Ok mate do you think I should donate blood straight away after or before next blast


 Will depend on blood work. Many have normal HCT even after blasting high dose test. It's a genetic thing.

Some men on 150 mg testosterone per week for TRT have issues with HCT.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> @ElChapo Love reading your write ups on training approach. critique my current split below.
> 
> *Mon - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Back, Biceps*
> 
> Flat Bench - 4 x 1 - 5
> 
> Flat Bench - 1 x AMRAP
> 
> Push Press - 3 x 1 - 5
> 
> CGBP - 3 x 6 - 12 (superset with dumbbell curls)
> 
> Seated Simultaneous Dumbbell strict curls - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Weighted Chin Ups - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Weighted Dips - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Yates Rows - 5 x 6 - 12
> 
> Dumbbell Hammer curls - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Tricep Dips - 3 x AMRAP
> 
> *Tues - Quads, Abs, Calves *
> 
> Barbell Squat - 5 x 1 - 5
> 
> Leg Press - 5 x 5
> 
> Leg Extensions - 5 x AMRAP
> 
> Leg Curls - 5 x 10 - 15
> 
> SLDL - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Calf Raises - 5 x 25 - 50
> 
> Leg raises - AMRAP
> 
> *Thursday - Back, Biceps, Hamstrings *
> 
> Weighted Pull ups - 4 x 4 - 12
> 
> Pull ups (BW) - AMRAP
> 
> Pendlay Rows - 5 x 4 - 12
> 
> Single arm DB rows - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Barbell Curl - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> EZ hammer curl - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Barbell Shrugs - 4 x 6 - 12
> 
> Leg curls - 5 x 12 - 15
> 
> SLDL - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> *Friday - Chest, Legs, Shoulders, Triceps*
> 
> Flat Bench - 5 x 8 - 12
> 
> Incline Barbell Bench - 3 x 6 - 12
> 
> Squats - 5 x 10
> 
> Leg press - 5 x 10
> 
> Seated DB Press - 3 x 4 - 12
> 
> Press Ups - 3 x AMRAP
> 
> Lateral raise - 3 x 12 - 15
> 
> Incline rear delt raise - 3 x 12 - 15


 Looks good, make sure you are always increasing weight or reps on all your movements. If you plateau for a long period of time, consider cutting back on volume. There's a point where extra volume gives diminishing returns and impedes with recovery and progress, individual tolerance will vary.

I love weighted dips and weighted chin ups, they really let you load the biceps and triceps with heavy weight.

bi/triceps respond fantastically to high volume, but heavy weight can really help break plateaus and encourage further growth.


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo. Another hypothetical scenario for you  .

You're about to embark on an injectable cycle with the intention of gaining as much mass and strength as possible, but you can add in an oral for the first three weeks. Out of the following options which do you choose and why?

- 50mg Anadrol per day

- 25mg dianabol per day

- 10mg superdrol per day

Secondly, is superdrol as bad as people make out in terms of side effects? Would you deem it the harshest of the above three taken at those doses?

Thank you once again for time, effort and knowledge!


----------



## zariph

When to do bloods when cycling test e 500mg 12 weeks. Should it be straight after pct or should I wait a bit more?

Also why do people always talk about e2 and not prolactin? Prolactin causes gyno too so why is this not usually a problem?


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo. Another hypothetical scenario for you  .
> 
> You're about to embark on an injectable cycle with the intention of gaining as much mass and strength as possible, but you can add in an oral for the first three weeks. Out of the following options which do you choose and why?
> 
> - 50mg Anadrol per day
> 
> - 25mg dianabol per day
> 
> - 10mg superdrol per day
> 
> Secondly, is superdrol as bad as people make out in terms of side effects? Would you deem it the harshest of the above three taken at those doses?
> 
> Thank you once again for time, effort and knowledge!


 Superdol is the harshest of those three, but try and see it how it treats you.

I would personally run winstrol 50 mg ED for 12 weeks with 250 mg TUDCA.

Superdrol is pretty great though


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> When to do bloods when cycling test e 500mg 12 weeks. Should it be straight after pct or should I wait a bit more?
> 
> Also why do people always talk about e2 and not prolactin? Prolactin causes gyno too so why is this not usually a problem?


 You need to wait a bit more. The BIGGEST mistake guys are making is drawing bloods right after PCT when levels are still artificially elevated from the SERMs. This is not true recovery, you will see if you are truly recovered 8-12 weeks POST-PCT.

Tren and deca don't affect prolactin. This is a common misconception that stems from the fact that cabergoline, an anti-prolactin drug, relieves many of the negative symptoms of 19-nor androgens.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You need to wait a bit more. The BIGGEST mistake guys are making is drawing bloods right after PCT when levels are still artificially elevated from the SERMs. This is not true recovery, you will see if you are truly recovered 8-12 weeks POST-PCT.
> 
> Tren and deca don't affect prolactin. This is a common misconception that stems from the fact that cabergoline, an anti-prolactin drug, relieves many of the negative symptoms of 19-nor androgens.


 thx but I was thinking of doing test E?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thx but I was thinking of doing test E?


 I answered your Test E question.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> You need to wait a bit more. The BIGGEST mistake guys are making is drawing bloods right after PCT when levels are still artificially elevated from the SERMs. This is not true recovery, you will see if you are truly recovered 8-12 weeks POST-PCT.
> 
> Tren and deca don't affect prolactin. This is a common misconception that stems from the fact that cabergoline, an anti-prolactin drug, relieves many of the negative symptoms of 19-nor androgens.


 Well a friend of mine ATM is on 300 TestE 400 TrenE 600 MastP 3mg Adex ew.

After 3 weeks of Tren his gyno flared...

He added Parlodel 2.5mg Ed + 1mg Cabergoline.... Gyno gone but not completely...

Anti prl drugs worked.... But you say that Deca/Tren don't cause high prl...

What is then?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Well a friend of mine ATM is on 300 TestE 400 TrenE 600 MastP 3mg Adex ew.
> 
> After 3 weeks of Tren his gyno flared...
> 
> He added Parlodel 2.5mg Ed + 1mg Cabergoline.... Gyno gone but not completely...
> 
> Anti prl drugs worked.... But you say that Deca/Tren don't cause high prl...
> 
> What is then?


 Trenbolone is able to bind to androgen, progesterone and estrogen receptors.

If he got bloodwork, his prolactin would be normal, i guarantee it.


----------



## MrBishi

When cruising on a low/minimal dose of testosterone when is it best to take bloods for testosterone test?

I'm guessing just before your next injection as this will show your lowest testosterone level?


----------



## John Boy 1985

@ElChapo

Thanks for this thread brother.

What's your view on insulin spikes before going bed, e.g i like to have a semi skimed glass of milk with a brown sugar couple hours before bed but also have casein right before bed. Is the glass of milk in terms of trying to lose bf and insulin spike. I'm cutting at moment 500kcals below maintenance. i flexible diet with clean whole foods and try to hit macros of roughly 220 p, 220 c, 50, fat. i find i can burn fat with simialr carbs and protein rather than doing low cars, keto, carb cycling etc. I mainly focus on hitting protein macro and 500 kcals below maintenance when cutting, carbs just kind of work themselves out as does fat. I guess I'm asking 2 questions here, 1- is glass of milk gonna affect my fat loss due to insulin spike. 2 - will I still see optimum fat loss with hitting 220 p and 220c and 500 below maintenance. I'm doing slow steady cut over 8 wks to lose about 5%. I'm 15%bf at mo and trying to do it on 200mg test e, to save for blast.


----------



## Wayno

@ElChapo

Im currently running 75mcg of t3 (with 300test) I plan on adding some clen also but should I lower t3 to say 50mcg when I start adding and upping the clen....don't wanna be over heating or ending up a jibbering wreck lol.


----------



## ElChapo

Wayno said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Im currently running 75mcg of t3 (with 300test) I plan on adding some clen also but should I lower t3 to say 50mcg when I start adding and upping the clen....don't wanna be over heating or ending up a jibbering wreck lol.


 T3 will increase your body's sensitivity to stimulant. It depends what your individual tolerance is. Some could handle it, the choice is yours.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thanks for this thread brother.
> 
> What's your view on insulin spikes before going bed, e.g i like to have a semi skimed glass of milk with a brown sugar couple hours before bed but also have casein right before bed. Is the glass of milk in terms of trying to lose bf and insulin spike. I'm cutting at moment 500kcals below maintenance. i flexible diet with clean whole foods and try to hit macros of roughly 220 p, 220 c, 50, fat. i find i can burn fat with simialr carbs and protein rather than doing low cars, keto, carb cycling etc. I mainly focus on hitting protein macro and 500 kcals below maintenance when cutting, carbs just kind of work themselves out as does fat. I guess I'm asking 2 questions here, 1- is glass of milk gonna affect my fat loss due to insulin spike. 2 - will I still see optimum fat loss with hitting 220 p and 220c and 500 below maintenance. I'm doing slow steady cut over 8 wks to lose about 5%. I'm 15%bf at mo and trying to do it on 200mg test e, to save for blast.


 110% bullshit.

You are doing good focusing in your protein+calories. Calories will dictate fat loss, period. All that insulin bullshit is false.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> 110% bullshit.
> 
> You are doing good focusing in your protein+calories. Calories will dictate fat loss, period. All that insulin bullshit is false.


 Thanks brother.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> When cruising on a low/minimal dose of testosterone when is it best to take bloods for testosterone test?
> 
> I'm guessing just before your next injection as this will show your lowest testosterone level?


 If changing doses or starting for the first time, 4-6 weeks.

I like to see the trough level, so so yeah, right before injection.


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> Trenbolone is able to bind to androgen, progesterone and estrogen receptors.
> 
> If he got bloodwork, his prolactin would be normal, i guarantee it.


 I have bloodwork from the doc where I was coming off gear(test+Tren) and my PRL was elevated to roughly 650iu/ml, had stopped both compounds three weeks prior to test, Tren had been used for one month prior @500mgPW so was still floating around in my system. Following test two weeks later read PRL at around 450iu/ml. What should I make of this and is there reason for the fluctuation in my PRL levels?


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> I have bloodwork from the doc where I was coming off gear(test+Tren) and my PRL was elevated to roughly 650iu/ml, had stopped both compounds three weeks prior to test, Tren had been used for one month prior @500mgPW so was still floating around in my system. Following test two weeks later read PRL at around 450iu/ml. What should I make of this and is there reason for the fluctuation in my PRL levels?


 You mean ng/mL? That's the prolactin of a lactating woman or a patient with a prolactinoma.

Do you have labwork from prior to your cycle for prolactin? What doses and ancillaries were you taking?


----------



## IrregularB

@ElChapo Hello mate, Running 50MCG of T3 in my up coming blast and lean bulk, i'm going to be cutting afterwards and would like to stay on T3 for the cut as well until i'm where i would like. I normally cruise on 175MG/Week however after doing some reading this won't be enough to cover the T3's catabolic nature. Would cutting on 250MG Test with 50MCG of T3 result in muscle loss in your opinion? I'm running EQ so its going to be a 16-18 Week blast. What are your thoughts? thanks as always!


----------



## Wayno

ElChapo said:


> T3 will increase your body's sensitivity to stimulant. It depends what your individual tolerance is. Some could handle it, the choice is yours.


 I'll probably lower then in that case so I don't end up a mess haha

Cheers bro


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> @ElChapo Hello mate, Running 50MCG of T3 in my up coming blast and lean bulk, i'm going to be cutting afterwards and would like to stay on T3 for the cut as well until i'm where i would like. I normally cruise on 175MG/Week however after doing some reading this won't be enough to cover the T3's catabolic nature. Would cutting on 250MG Test with 50MCG of T3 result in muscle loss in your opinion? I'm running EQ so its going to be a 16-18 Week blast. What are your thoughts? thanks as always!


 I would cut on 300 mg regardless as this is where testosterone begins to shine in terms of benefits to strength, bosy composition and recovery.

You should not lose muscle on 50 mcg T3, the catabolic effect is overstated and is a consequence of the flat muscles people get from T3 due to increase turnover of glycogen. Also, for the first two weeks of T3 use, muscle nitrogen levels decrease below baseline but come back up with chronic use.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> I would cut on 300 mg regardless as this is where testosterone begins to shine in terms of benefits to strength, bosy composition and recovery.
> 
> You should not lose muscle on 50 mcg T3, the catabolic effect is overstated and is a consequence of the flat muscles people get from T3 due to increase turnover of glycogen. Also, for the first two weeks of T3 use, muscle nitrogen levels decrease below baseline but come back up with chronic use.


 Okay thanks mate so my workouts might lack a bit for the first fortnight? As for Blasting @ 600MG Test E & 600MG EQ for 16ish weeks you think i can get away with a "Cruise" on 300MG a week? Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> Okay thanks mate so my workouts might lack a bit for the first fortnight? As for Blasting @ 600MG Test E & 600MG EQ for 16ish weeks you think i can get away with a "Cruise" on 300MG a week? Cheers.


 No problem. No just that you may look flat, some people feel weaker on T3. I never had this experience though, just gotta experiment and find out.

Get away with what?


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> No problem. No just that you may look flat, some people feel weaker on T3. I never had this experience though, just gotta experiment and find out.
> 
> Get away with what?


 Like im not sure is 300mg is too high for a cruise? Coming off a 16 week blast and only dropping to 300MG. Sorry if I seem a little bit silly, just you're the pro!


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Hi elchapo, asked for your advice a few days ago about gyno... current stack: teste/trene/maste (300/200/400)... I was orginally using 0.75/1g of adex pw which was working well but since I started tren (2weeks ago) my nips have gone puffy (no pain or itchyness)

You advised me to up adex to 2g pw which I have done (1 week in currently), and I've also added 20mg nolva ed for the past 6 days (maybe bunk as its ugl), but started pharma grade nolva today. How long would nolva take to work?

Trens defo working as anger/sweats/dreams are there... My mood and motivation is great, libido has dropped alittle tho, tren?... altogether I'm enjoying this blast, but guess my question is.. should I carry this on for a few more days as im now on pharma nolva? Or maybe consider sourcing some caber/ralox? As nips just don't seem to be shrinking.

Another thing that I wanted to ask is... certain times of the day my nips are tight as a drum (most mornings, post shower, working out), it seems to be more mid afternoon, nighttime when they go puffy... could this still be gyno or just more water retention/fatty deposits?

Thanks

Edited: funnily enough after writing this, looked in the mirror (bedroom) standing side on slight cone.... then went for a piss and got goosebumps hahah and my nips were tight, no vone, no puffyness.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> 110% bullshit.
> 
> You are doing good focusing in your protein+calories. Calories will dictate fat loss, period. All that insulin bullshit is false.


 But what about that anabolic window all the magazines and bro science professors preach about??! Just kidding I know it's all BS just to focus on kcals and hitting protein requirements but it's good to have someone like yourself back that up


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> Like im not sure is 300mg is too high for a cruise? Coming off a 16 week blast and only dropping to 300MG. Sorry if I seem a little bit silly, just you're the pro!


 Only you can decide if it's too high for you.

Typically, 300 mg is fairly safe year round as long as you keep bloodwork, BP and e2 within range. Some people are more sensitive to increases in hematocrit, BP and cholesterol issues, so higher cruise means more micro managing of these issues. Many won't have any problems though and 300 mg will definitely perserve mass amd strength.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> But what about that anabolic window all the magazines and bro science professors preach about??! Just kidding I know it's all BS just to focus on kcals and hitting protein requirements but it's good to have someone like yourself back that up


 Anabolic window isn't really BS and is when the body is primed to absorb carbs and protein for glycogen replenishment and protein synthesis, but people miss the forest for the trees.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> Only you can decide if it's too high for you.
> 
> Typically, 300 mg is fairly safe year round as long as you keep bloodwork, BP and e2 within range. Some people are more sensitive to increases in hematocrit, BP and cholesterol issues, so higher cruise means more micro managing of these issues. Many won't have any problems though and 300 mg will definitely perserve mass amd strength.


 Many thanks! I'll run 300 and get bloods done 6-8 weeks after my blast until I'm happy again. You're the man, cheers!


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Anabolic window isn't really BS and is when the body is primed to absorb carbs and protein for glycogen replenishment and protein synthesis, but people miss the forest for the trees.


 Interesting, fair enough! I just know at my level I need to focus on the basics and being consistent before starting to worry about carb timining pre intra post ect. Once I eventually get to single digit BF for the first time ever then try to build I'll have to fine tune things maybe

riddle me this whilst your here. Are BCAA's worth adding to sip during the day and during and workout? At the minute I only take 40g whey with oats in the AM and 40g casein with almond milk before bed supplement wise


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Leptin is the most important hormone that regulates metabolism and appetite. Your fat cells produce leptin. As you get leaner, you have less circulating leptin. This is why it's harder to get and stay lean as you diet because with lower leptin levels you are going to be hungrier and your metabolism is going to be slowed down.
> 
> T3; minimum 25 mcg to maintain metabolism on a deficit. 50 mcg to optimize fat loss further. Any higher will lead to flatness but can help fat loss. I recommend 25-75 mcg and let training, diet and the other fat burners do the job.
> 
> All stimulant fat burners are going to tax the heart and vascular system. This is not a problem as long as you aren't running this s**t year round. You should be able to maintain low body fat without them. When you exercise and lift weights, your heart can be taxed to extremes. Heart rate over 180 and high BP with heavy lifting. These are ACUTE stressors which can actually be beneficial in the long term. It is CHRONIC heart stress that will lead to damage and disease. Running stims for reasonable periods will not lead to long term heart damage, especially if you stay in shape and keep your heart strong and healthy.
> 
> Yohimbine; No, fasting is required. Cardio is not. Cardio will enhance fat loss though.
> 
> I wouldn't expect testosterone or any other androgen to increase TDEE directly, possible only through increased energy and activity. Fat loss will be easier than with low test and you can expect a better muscle:fat gain ratio when in a surplus.


 Is there a way to boost leptin??


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Interesting, fair enough! I just know at my level I need to focus on the basics and being consistent before starting to worry about carb timining pre intra post ect. Once I eventually get to single digit BF for the first time ever then try to build I'll have to fine tune things maybe
> 
> riddle me this whilst your here. Are BCAA's worth adding to sip during the day and during and workout? At the minute I only take 40g whey with oats in the AM and 40g casein with almond milk before bed supplement wise


 Not even, calorie deficit will get you down to 6% no problem. The meal timing is just to optimize results.

No need, BCAA is a meh supplement. If your protein intake is high, they are pointless. They might improve performance taken pre workout and recovery post workout.

Don't believe the BS that you can only absorb 40 g protein or whatever in one sitting. You don't have to eat every few hours, although it helps when calories are very high.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Is there a way to boost leptin??


 Yes! Carb refeeds are the best way to boost leptin. This is why cheat meals feel amazing, you get a huge spike in leptin. Low leptin is the reason cravings become too much eventually when dieting for most people.

Carbs increase leptin


----------



## Dan TT

Just copied it from a thread I made to post in here for your help:

'This coming Tuesday will be 2 weeks since I last jabbed (last jab was 1ml test e, 0.5ml tren e). Was going to lose the holiday chub on a cruise but decided that I'm going to come off for a bit and just live in a small deficit/maintenance while off to hopefully tug away slowly at the fat. Just looking for a PCT protocol I should follow for myself. Didn't use HCG while on cycle but do have some at hand alongside clomid and nolva.

People's advice on what to take, dosages, when to start etc would be helpful.'

cheers


----------



## Flipper

Tricky said:


> Interesting, fair enough! I just know at my level I need to focus on the basics and being consistent before starting to worry about carb timining pre intra post ect. Once I eventually get to single digit BF for the first time ever then try to build I'll have to fine tune things maybe
> 
> riddle me this whilst your here. Are BCAA's worth adding to sip during the day and during and workout? At the minute I only take 40g whey with oats in the AM and 40g casein with almond milk before bed supplement wise


 With regards to Bcaa's I was sceptical as to wether they did anything or not even though I'd used them intra and post workout for a while.

When they ran out I decided to see if I noticed a difference without using them.

I definetly felt that my recovery time was longer, felt more aches and doms. Nothing else changed as diet and training were consistent.

Ordered some more and a few days after recovery was improved.

Obviously we are all different but I can say for me personally I noticed a difference.

Just my opinion on bcaas.


----------



## Tricky

Flipper said:


> With regards to Bcaa's I was sceptical as to wether they did anything or not even though I'd used them intra and post workout for a while.
> 
> When they ran out I decided to see if I noticed a difference without using them.
> 
> I definetly felt that my recovery time was longer, felt more aches and doms. Nothing else changed as diet and training were consistent.
> 
> Ordered some more and a few days after recovery was improved.
> 
> Obviously we are all different but I can say for me personally I noticed a difference.
> 
> Just my opinion on bcaas.


 How many grams taking pre intra or post? What brand?

Mid they work out cheap enough I might give them a whirl if it helps recovery!

Mind you tomorrow I'm going to start 300mg test blend to help recovery, fat loss, strength and to potentially add some muscle even tho I'm in a deficit for the next 10 weeks


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo ive been taking anti convulsant medicine for over 30 years to treat my Epilepsy, I was told this was the main reason behind my testosterone diminishing.

My readings 5 years ago were 0.8Nmol ive read on the internet that it kills the male hormone (testosterone) but don't know if its true.

Im taking a med called Epilim ( Sodium Valproate ) 400mg in the mornings and 800mg at night.

Will this drug have any effect on me building muscle / gaining or losing fat etc ?


----------



## Flipper

Tricky said:


> How many grams taking pre intra or post? What brand?
> 
> Mid they work out cheap enough I might give them a whirl if it helps recovery!
> 
> Mind you tomorrow I'm going to start 300mg test blend to help recovery, fat loss, strength and to potentially add some muscle even tho I'm in a deficit for the next 10 weeks


 I take intra and post mate. Used 3 scoops of the myprotein peach and mango flavour which I think are 5g scoops. Tastes lovely. Just mixed in 2 litres of water.

With the test in there you're definitely going to get a boost in recovery anyway.

First time pinning?


----------



## Tricky

Flipper said:


> I take intra and post mate. Used 3 scoops of the myprotein peach and mango flavour which I think are 5g scoops. Tastes lovely. Just mixed in 2 litres of water.
> 
> With the test in there you're definitely going to get a boost in recovery anyway.
> 
> First time pinning?


 Yep. Triumph test 400 so 0.75ml straight into my delt tomorrow with 0.5mg adex


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

over training a myth? Can you do to much to many sets per muscle group train to many days in a row etc


----------



## Flipper

Tricky said:


> Yep. Triumph test 400 so 0.75ml straight into my delt tomorrow with 0.5mg adex


 Happy days mate. Delts are a nice spot.


----------



## Tricky

Flipper said:


> Happy days mate. Delts are a nice spot.


 I'm also going to stop the clen and start DNP at 250mg so I'll not be gaining and muscle just focusing on getting to single digit BF by sept then going from there to add size which I seriously lack but I know this takes time and it's best to strip back then build instead of trying to recomp


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> Just copied it from a thread I made to post in here for your help:
> 
> 'This coming Tuesday will be 2 weeks since I last jabbed (last jab was 1ml test e, 0.5ml tren e). Was going to lose the holiday chub on a cruise but decided that I'm going to come off for a bit and just live in a small deficit/maintenance while off to hopefully tug away slowly at the fat. Just looking for a PCT protocol I should follow for myself. Didn't use HCG while on cycle but do have some at hand alongside clomid and nolva.
> 
> People's advice on what to take, dosages, when to start etc would be helpful.'
> 
> cheers


 Bad idea to cut on a PCT. It's asking for muscle loss and misery, as hormone imbalances+caloric deficit/diet = bad time. If the deficit is small, it would mitigate the damage, but it's a better idea to just extend your blast into the cut or switch to cruise dose to cut. Then maintain after you are as lean as you want to be.

If you are cruising and blasting, why pct? Cruising and blasting is already putting your HPTA and fertility at risk.

You're better off just blasting/cruising+hcg or cycling/pct.

HCG should be used during a cycle to stimulate the leydig and sertoli cells so they don't go dormant.

As for PCT protocol. look up Michael Scally power pct, but ignore his recommendation for HCG.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> How many grams taking pre intra or post? What brand?
> 
> Mid they work out cheap enough I might give them a whirl if it helps recovery!
> 
> Mind you tomorrow I'm going to start 300mg test blend to help recovery, fat loss, strength and to potentially add some muscle even tho I'm in a deficit for the next 10 weeks


 5-10 g BCAA before and/or after.

You get the same effect from whey protein.

In regards to the 300 mg testosterone, you can definitely gain muscle on a cut depending how advanced you are. Beginners-intermediate trainees will gain muscle even on a deficit if they train and eat right even without AAS.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

hey brother! Just wondering if using t4 offseason would be beneficial ? Is there any harm trying this as I heard it won't shut down thyroid at all but can give your t3 optimal levels ,, do you see any harm in trying for 2 months or so ?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo ive been taking anti convulsant medicine for over 30 years to treat my Epilepsy, I was told this was the main reason behind my testosterone diminishing.
> 
> My readings 5 years ago were 0.8Nmol ive read on the internet that it kills the male hormone (testosterone) but don't know if its true.
> 
> Im taking a med called Epilim ( Sodium Valproate ) 400mg in the mornings and 800mg at night.
> 
> Will this drug have any effect on me building muscle / gaining or losing fat etc ?


 That testosterone level is horrible, why aren't you on TRT?

Valproic acid has anti-androgenic effects, so yeah, it's very likely this may be part of your issue.

I wouldn't worry about the drug affecting your gains, but your severely low testosterone levels which will predispose you to sickness and disease.

It MAY negatively effect your fat loss and body composition:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18472247

I am sure TRT would more than help offset this effect though. I would have to research the mechanism behind it, but it seems to impair glucose tolerance/insulin sensitivity in the body.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> over training a myth? Can you do to much to many sets per muscle group train to many days in a row etc


 No, overtraining is not a myth. If you haven't overtrained before, you haven't trained at a high enough intensity. Most guys i see at the gym are standing in front of the mirror jerking off admiring themselves while putting no effort into training.

The CNS itself is limited by how much work you can put it through, and even the skeletal muscle can only handle so much damage. Steroids don't make your muscles immune to fatigue and excessive damage.

I have seen many guys who think overtraining is a "myth" end up with Rhabdomyolysis . When muscle breaks down, it release myoglobin, when the breakdown is excessive, myoglobin levels reach critical levels than can damage major organs and cause kidney failure and other issues.

AAS will increase work capacity, recovery, and ability to train through fatigue, but this effect is limited and like i said before, damage is damage and the CNS can burn out.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I'm also going to stop the clen and start DNP at 250mg so I'll not be gaining and muscle just focusing on getting to single digit BF by sept then going from there to add size which I seriously lack but I know this takes time and it's best to strip back then build instead of trying to recomp


 Yeah, go for 10% and bulk slowly to 15%, rinse and repeat until you reach your desired size.

Aim for .25-.5 lbs per week of muscle to stay as lean as possible.

If you are still a novice you can easily put on 1 lbs per week and stay lean.

Intermediate guys should aim for .5-.75 lbs

advanced-elite should be looking at .25 lbs per week

This is if you want to stay as lean as possible and gain mostly muscle, if you don't care then just do a standard dirty bulk and grow.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey brother! Just wondering if using t4 offseason would be beneficial ? Is there any harm trying this as I heard it won't shut down thyroid at all but can give your t3 optimal levels ,, do you see any harm in trying for 2 months or so ?


 Not necessarily, the T3 levels you get from T4 is going to depend on your genetics and wether you are in a caloric surplus or deficit and eating a lot of carbs.

T4 to T3 conversion happens via the deiodinase enzyme which cleaves off an iodine molecule and converts T4 into T3. Some people genetically possess more activity of this enzyme, and other convert less T4 to T3. This is why T4 is not optimal for fat loss and some hypothyroid patient's still feel like garbage even though they are medicated because the T4 isn't converting to enough T3 for them to feel euthyroid.

If you want to try T4 solo, go for 150 mcg daily, empty stomach in the morning; wait one hour before you eat or drink anything besides water.

Neither T4 nor T3 will shut you down permanently.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Not necessarily, the T3 levels you get from T4 is going to depend on your genetics and wether you are in a caloric surplus or deficit and eating a lot of carbs.
> 
> T4 to T3 conversion happens via the deiodinase enzyme which cleaves off an iodine molecule and converts T4 into T3. Some people genetically possess more activity of this enzyme, and other convert less T4 to T3. This is why T4 is not optimal for fat loss and some hypothyroid patient's still feel like garbage even though they are medicated because the T4 isn't converting to enough T3 for them to feel euthyroid.
> 
> If you want to try T4 solo, go for 150 mcg daily, empty stomach in the morning; wait one hour before you eat or drink anything besides water.
> 
> Neither T4 nor T3 will shut you down permanently.


 Your a legend ! Muchly appreciate the info , I will be in a calorie surplus and hoping the t4 will shuttle nutrients a bit better and decrease likeliness of fat gain.. Can't really see any cons of giving it a try ? i will be using test 750mg tren 400mg and eq 600mg Pw and upping cardio , hopefully will recomp a bit ... Am i right in thinking this way?


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> You mean ng/mL? That's the prolactin of a lactating woman or a patient with a prolactinoma.
> 
> Do you have labwork from prior to your cycle for prolactin? What doses and ancillaries were you taking?


 Yes mate, meant iu/ml, that's the unit it was recorded in, I'm assuming iu can be substituted for anything though in which case ng/ml seems appropriate? no relevant labwork that would have been close enough, bloods from a year prior showed no signs of elevated PRL though. Was taking no other meds. Have an appointment with the endo next month, may well be prolactinoma TBH as I believe the levels can fluctuate but I'll have to see I guess.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> Your a legend ! Muchly appreciate the info , I will be in a calorie surplus and hoping the t4 will shuttle nutrients a bit better and decrease likeliness of fat gain.. Can't really see any cons of giving it a try ? i will be using test 750mg tren 400mg and eq 600mg Pw and upping cardio , hopefully will recomp a bit ... Am i right in thinking this way?


 Yeah, some animal studies show some improvement in growth from T4 supplementation, too much decreases growth, but 150 mcg will put you in a high-optimal range.

Don't count on recomping unless you are a novice on a defict. Straight Bulk/cut cycles are much more effective than trying to recomp.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Hypothetical scenario, a standard gym rat broseph contacts you, and asks for your guidance and knowledge on how to transform him into a classical era looking bodybuilder. minimum 180lbs 7 - 8% range, but ideally pushing for 210 lbs @ 7 -8 % you have 2 years, to transform this small waist/boned ectomorph into resembling a greek god and you will receive a $10,0000 you have access to PEDS to a high standard at hand, and client is willing to experiment/push boundaries. training, diet, lifestyle are all in check to a good degree. the individual is simply trying to achieve an phenomenal physique in as least time as possible. e.g 3D dry and as grainy looking as possible, real comic book looking tier physique.
> 
> View attachment 143014


 He will be limited by genetics on how good he will look, but he can fill out his frame if he puts in the time, food and training in plus the right AAS.

It can easily be done, Bostin Loyd exploded in 1 year, but it's not the healthiest thing for you.

As a medical professional i couldn't advocate such a cycle or approach.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, some animal studies show some improvement in growth from T4 supplementation, too much decreases growth, but 150 mcg will put you in a high-optimal range.
> 
> Don't count on recomping unless you are a novice on a defict. Straight Bulk/cut cycles are much more effective than trying to recomp.


 your a legend, much thanks from us all for going out of your way to help everybody ! shows the type of person you are,, we appreciate it!


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Yes mate, meant iu/ml, that's the unit it was recorded in, I'm assuming iu can be substituted for anything though in which case ng/ml seems appropriate? no relevant labwork that would have been close enough, bloods from a year prior showed no signs of elevated PRL though. Was taking no other meds. Have an appointment with the endo next month, may well be prolactinoma TBH as I believe the levels can fluctuate but I'll have to see I guess.


 Will have to check it out and see. Keep us posted


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> your a legend, much thanks from us all for going out of your way to help everybody ! shows the type of person you are,, we appreciate it!


 It's part of my job, glad to share the knowledge brother. I appreciate the kind words.


----------



## JohhnyC

Whoremoan1 said:


> your a legend, much thanks from us all for going out of your way to help everybody ! shows the type of person you are,, we appreciate it!


 100% agreement from me. I'm watching these posts every day and copying bits to a word doc.

Nerd alert! :thumb


----------



## Whoremoan1

JohhnyC said:


> 100% agreement from me. I'm watching these posts every day and copying bits to a word doc.
> 
> Nerd alert! :thumb


 haha me too brother


----------



## JohhnyC

Ok, question on DNP and carbs.

We discussed carbs and dieting on other threads, however when DNP is thrown into the mix what should one do with carb intake. The overwhelming advice seems to be one should reduce carbs to low levels (not too low though) 3 days before DNP cycle and all the way through. As I understand it this depletes the glycogen stores so DNP gets a straight run to uncouple fat cells and is not hindered as such

Do you agree with this?


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Ok, question on DNP and carbs.
> 
> We discussed carbs and dieting on other threads, however when DNP is thrown into the mix what should one do with carb intake. The overwhelming advice seems to be one should reduce carbs to low levels (not too low though) 3 days before DNP cycle and all the way through. As I understand it this depletes the glycogen stores so DNP gets a straight run to uncouple fat cells and is not hindered as such
> 
> Do you agree with this?


 Consume carbs to tolerance, some people heat up and sweat. It doesn't bother everyone, but those that are sensitive may want to limit carbs.

The DNP will still do its job regardless of glycogen stores, if the latter were the case, keto diet would actually be superior to high carb diet. Your body will tap into calories from fat regardless.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Consume carbs to tolerance, some people heat up and sweat. It doesn't bother everyone, but those that are sensitive may want to limit carbs.
> 
> The DNP will still do its job regardless of glycogen stores, if the latter were the case, keto diet would actually be superior to high carb diet. Your body will tap into calories from fat regardless.


 Ok so the actual carbs you consume is just determined by the tolerance to sides (heat etc) and not actually the related to the effectiveness of DNP?

Its what I argued before on here as if carbs get special treatment as a such, you're breaking the first law of cals out v cals in. Cals out is ramped up dramatically by DNP.

But thought maybe I am missing something


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> You need to wait a bit more. The BIGGEST mistake guys are making is drawing bloods right after PCT when levels are still artificially elevated from the SERMs. This is not true recovery, you will see if you are truly recovered 8-12 weeks POST-PCT.
> 
> *Tren and deca don't affect prolactin. This is a common misconception that stems from the fact that cabergoline, an anti-prolactin drug, relieves many of the negative symptoms of 19-nor androgens.*


 What?????????????? :huh:

Can you please elaborate it a bit more Sir?. How do you think negative affects related to gyno caused by 19 Nor compounds happens then?. INTERESTED.

@sen, Tagging you. You might found this information very helpful mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What?????????????? :huh:
> 
> Can you please elaborate it a bit more Sir?. How do you think negative affects related to gyno caused by 19 Nor compounds happens then?. INTERESTED.
> 
> @sen, Tagging you. You might found this information very helpful mate.


 I already answered this question in the post above. Tren can bind to E2/P/A receptors.

Trenbolone seems to potentiate estrogenic and androgenic effects of sex steroids.

All i can tell you is that 19nors do not directly stimulate prolactin release.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Ok so the actual carbs you consume is just determined by the tolerance to sides (heat etc) and not actually the related to the effectiveness of DNP?
> 
> Its what I argued before on here as if carbs get special treatment as a such, you're breaking the first law of cals out v cals in. Cals out is ramped up dramatically by DNP.
> 
> But thought maybe I am missing something


 Like you said, calories in/calories out.


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> Only you can decide if it's too high for you.
> 
> Typically, 300 mg is fairly safe year round as long as you keep bloodwork, BP and e2 within range. Some people are more sensitive to increases in hematocrit, BP and cholesterol issues, so higher cruise means more micro managing of these issues. Many won't have any problems though and 300 mg will definitely perserve mass amd strength.


 Would that be 300mg ew or 300mg every 10 days


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> I already answered this question in the post above. Tren can bind to E2/P/A receptors.


 Ahhh. Missed it. Second part, If 19 nor can also bind to P receptors and cause gyno, how to avoid it?


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> Would that be 300mg ew or 300mg every 10 days


 I stick 3.5-7 day intervals for pins, easier to remember for me.

I'm talking about 300 mg E7D.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Ahhh. Missed it. Second part, If 19 nor can also bind to P receptors and cause gyno, how to avoid it?


 Keep E2 low and pray lol

Keep raloxifene on hand to reverse, it ALWAYS works for me. I have reversed tren gyno many times. Even old gyno will shrink. New gyno will be gone in 2-6 weeks.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Keep E2 low and pray lol
> 
> Keep raloxifene on hand to reverse, it ALWAYS works for me. I have reversed tren gyno many times. Even old gyno will shrink.


 It's quite confusing to be honest. Reason being, there are people on this forum who have kept E2 in the ranges and still got gyno on Tren test cycle. Now, suppose E2 is in range and the person still gets gyno, he should add raloxifene instead of using caber/primo?. Is my understanding correct?. TIA


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> I stick 3.5-7 day intervals for pins, easier to remember for me.
> 
> I'm talking about 300 mg E7D.


 And that's fine for a cruise dose?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Hi elchapo, asked for your advice a few days ago about gyno... current stack: teste/trene/maste (300/200/400)... I was orginally using 0.75/1g of adex pw which was working well but since I started tren (2weeks ago) my nips have gone puffy (no pain or itchyness)
> 
> You advised me to up adex to 2g pw which I have done (1 week in currently), and I've also added 20mg nolva ed for the past 6 days (maybe bunk as its ugl), but started pharma grade nolva today. How long would nolva take to work?
> 
> Trens defo working as anger/sweats/dreams are there... My mood and motivation is great, libido has dropped alittle tho, tren?... altogether I'm enjoying this blast, but guess my question is.. should I carry this on for a few more days as im now on pharma nolva? Or maybe consider sourcing some caber/ralox? As nips just don't seem to be shrinking.
> 
> Another thing that I wanted to ask is... certain times of the day my nips are tight as a drum (most mornings, post shower, working out), it seems to be more mid afternoon, nighttime when they go puffy... could this still be gyno or just more water retention/fatty deposits?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edited: funnily enough after writing this, looked in the mirror (bedroom) standing side on slight cone.... then went for a piss and got goosebumps hahah and my nips were tight, no vone, no puffyness.


 Think you may have missed this ^^^^^

Just to elaborate...

Week 1 & 2: 0.75 adex

Week 3, 4 & 5: 1g adex - (transitioned into 200 tren from 300eq week5)

Week 6: 2g adex & 20mg nolva (last 6 days)

First thoughts I maybe wasnt having enough ai for the first few weeks and now I have a big build up of e2... prolactin?


----------



## G-man99

Regarding meal frequency, I appreciate more meals is easier when bulking to help get the calories in.

Does 6 small meals have any negative affect when cutting as obviously only a few hours between each meal?

(Only 3 contain carbs)


----------



## Jordan08

Do you think there are any negative effect on E2 levels or any other down side of including Soya related products around 60-80gms as a staple food in their meal planon daily basis?. We have heard lot of stories on how soya is bad for men or it's just another BS and it can be consumed on a daily basis without being feared of any down sides?


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> That testosterone level is horrible, why aren't you on TRT?
> 
> Valproic acid has anti-androgenic effects, so yeah, it's very likely this may be part of your issue.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the drug affecting your gains, but your severely low testosterone levels which will predispose you to sickness and disease.
> 
> It MAY negatively effect your fat loss and body composition:
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18472247
> 
> I am sure TRT would more than help offset this effect though. I would have to research the mechanism behind it, but it seems to impair glucose tolerance/insulin sensitivity in the body.


 Thank you @ElChapo this makes a lot of sense now as im always struggling with weight/fat loss and I go hypo easily during exercise if not eaten enough.

I can gain and lose up to 7lb in a day depending on how I eat I have to eat every 2 hours or hunger kicks in very hard.

On the plus side I gain very quickly on a bulk but do hold more fat than id like so cutting is more extreme than should be.

My doctor is a complete ass mate he would not even send me to a specialist this country and its cut backs.

Im going to go private as soon as I get my blood results back and sort out any issues but ive self medicated for the last 4+ years.

My doctor said its not impacting on my day to day life when it bloody was I felt terrible for years now I feel great again.

If another doctor wont refer me to an endo im definitely going private.

Thank you for your help mate.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@Elchapo what's your take on Metformin for a, body composition and b, longevity


----------



## Pancake'

How do you personally calculate your surplus needs e.g what figure do you multiply your bodyweight by?

How much of deficit, do you put yourself in?

How much of a surplus do you allow yourself?

What macro ratio is your preference for bulking & cutting purposes?


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> Bad idea to cut on a PCT. It's asking for muscle loss and misery, as hormone imbalances+caloric deficit/diet = bad time. If the deficit is small, it would mitigate the damage, but it's a better idea to just extend your blast into the cut or switch to cruise dose to cut. Then maintain after you are as lean as you want to be.
> 
> If you are cruising and blasting, why pct? Cruising and blasting is already putting your HPTA and fertility at risk.
> 
> You're better off just blasting/cruising+hcg or cycling/pct.
> 
> HCG should be used during a cycle to stimulate the leydig and sertoli cells so they don't go dormant.
> 
> As for PCT protocol. look up Michael Scally power pct, but ignore his recommendation for HCG.


 I did think that about the muscle loss so i might just stick to around maintenance and lose the weight before I go into a bulk later on in the year/next year.

Been blasting and cruising for probs well over a year now. Still fairly young so kind of want to come off give myself a bit clear out and let my body sort itself out. Last used HCG on my bulk blast around Feb time. Didn't use it during my cut (past 6-8 weeks or so). Will take a look at his protocol thanks.

While on the topic, to what scale do you think using steroids at a young-ish age (i'm 22 so use that) will affect my fertility within the next 5 years? I know the question is vague and the answer can be dependent on different things such as fertility without steroids in the first place etc. I know lads having kids on test + tren and the lot. Does worry me staying on the gear but if you want any real progress, it kind of has to be done.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> It's quite confusing to be honest. Reason being, there are people on this forum who have kept E2 in the ranges and still got gyno on Tren test cycle. Now, suppose E2 is in range and the person still gets gyno, he should add raloxifene instead of using caber/primo?. Is my understanding correct?. TIA


 Lowering E2 does not prevent it, it's not that simple, but high E2 will sure as hell bring it on, worse and faster.

The fasted gyno flare up i got was on dbol+tren. Methyl E2+Tren = super gyno. ralox took care of it in 2 weeks.

Ralox IS the cure for gyno.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Lowering E2 does not prevent it, it's not that simple, but high E2 will sure as hell bring it on, worse and faster.
> 
> The fasted gyno flare up i got was on dbol+tren. Methyl E2+Tren = super gyno. ralox took care of it in 2 weeks.


 So, there is no guarantee with gyno from 19Nor. It can happen with low E2 too..  . I beleive it's better to start ralo with adequate AI from start of the cycle to be on a safer side.


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> And that's fine for a cruise


 You dont need higher than TRT doses for crusing depending on how good your diet and training are off blast and how much mass you carry.

With that in mind, i do like 300 mg as a cruise/performance dose.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Think you may have missed this ^^^^^
> 
> Just to elaborate...
> 
> Week 1 & 2: 0.75 adex
> 
> Week 3, 4 & 5: 1g adex - (transitioned into 200 tren from 300eq week5)
> 
> Week 6: 2g adex & 20mg nolva (last 6 days)
> 
> First thoughts I maybe wasnt having enough ai for the first few weeks and now I have a big build up of e2... prolactin?


 Always use pharm grade ancillaries if you can source them, even if sold by UGL. They are easy to find.

Nolva won't work it's best while you are taking tren, most likely it will stoo the flare up and growth completely, but for full reversal, it should be without tren in the mix.

Maximum benefit will be seen in 12 weeks, you should start seeing a difference in 4-6 weeks. It's a waiting game. Just add it to your vitamin/supplement stack, mark a day on your calendar for 12 weeks and forget about it.

You just have to wait, everyone who says ralox doesnt work has not ran it long enough.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Regarding meal frequency, I appreciate more meals is easier when bulking to help get the calories in.
> 
> Does 6 small meals have any negative affect when cutting as obviously only a few hours between each meal?
> 
> (Only 3 contain carbs)


 For cutting, intermittent fasting is my preferred frequency. Just means i skip breakfast and eat around 11-2 PM when i get hungry. Meals are bigger and more satisfying and i drink coffee in the morning during my fast.

Some guys get rebound hunger from fasting or feel faint/weak, this goes away with time, but it doesnt work for everyone.

Meal frequency is irrelevant, what matters is that you stick to the diet that you need for your goals ti be realized, whatever meal frequency helps you achieve that, you should stick to.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Do you think there are any negative effect on E2 levels or any other down side of including Soya related products around 60-80gms as a staple food in their meal planon daily basis?. We have heard lot of stories on how soya is bad for men or it's just another BS and it can be consumed on a daily basis without being feared of any down sides?


 Phytoestrogen are quite potent en vivo, i would avoid soy as a man. there are case studies of gyno development from high soy consumption.

I would not worry about additives in products like soy lecithin, etc. Just avoid straight up soy milk, protein, and legumes.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo My bloods came today :-

HAEMATOLOGY

Red Blood Cells

HAEMOGLOBIN (G/L) *185 g/L 130.00

-

170.00

HCT *0.541 L/L 0.37

-

0.50

RED CELL COUNT *5.92 x10^12/L 4.40

-

5.80

MCV 91 fl 80.00

-

99.00

MCH 31.3 pg

26.00

-

33.50

MCHC (G/L) 342 g/L 300.00

-

350.00

RDW 12.3 % 11.50

-

15.00

White

Blood Cells

WHITE CELL COUNT *10.7 x10^9/L 3.00

-

10.00

NEUTROPHILS

6.04 x10^9/L 2.00

-

7.50

LYMPHOCYTES 3.43 x10^9/L 1.20

-

3.65

MONOCYTES 0.84 x10^9/L 0.20

-

1.00

EOSINOPHILS 0.30 x10^9/L 0.00

-

0.40

B

ASOPHILS *0.11 x10^9/L 0.00

-

0.10

Clotting Status

PLATELET COUNT 328 x10^9/L 150.00

-

400.00

MPV 9.0 fl 7.00

-

13.00


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Thank you @ElChapo this makes a lot of sense now as im always struggling with weight/fat loss and I go hypo easily during exercise if not eaten enough.
> 
> I can gain and lose up to 7lb in a day depending on how I eat I have to eat every 2 hours or hunger kicks in very hard.
> 
> On the plus side I gain very quickly on a bulk but do hold more fat than id like so cutting is more extreme than should be.
> 
> My doctor is a complete ass mate he would not even send me to a specialist this country and its cut backs.
> 
> Im going to go private as soon as I get my blood results back and sort out any issues but ive self medicated for the last 4+ years.
> 
> My doctor said its not impacting on my day to day life when it bloody was I felt terrible for years now I feel great again.
> 
> If another doctor wont refer me to an endo im definitely going private.
> 
> Thank you for your help mate.


 No issue brother, just get on TRT asap or self-medicate. Your levels are the same as my SO before she went on HRT. She was at the bottom of the FEMALE range. Having very low testosterone is a serious health risk.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo

BIOCHEMISTRY

Kidney Function

SODIUM *151 mmol/L 135.00

-

145.00

UREA 6.8 mmol/L 1.70

-

8.30

CREATININE *123 umol/L 66.00

-

112.00

Liver Function

ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 50

IU/L 40.00

-

129.00

ALANINE TRANSFERASE 29.9 IU/L 10.00

-

50.00

CK *446 IU/L 38.00

-

204.00

GAMMA GT 25 IU/L 10.00

-

71.00

Proteins

TOTAL PROTEIN 77.9 g/L 63.00

-

83.00

ALBUMIN 40.1 g/L 34.00

-

50.00

GLOBULIN *37.8 g/L 19.00

-

35.00

Diabetes

HBA1C (MMOL/MOL) 33.00 mmol/mol 20.00

-

42.00

Iron Status

IRON 13.79 umol/L 10.60

-

28.30

FERRITIN 70.15 ug/L 30.00

-

400.00


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @Elchapo what's your take on Metformin for a, body composition and b, longevity


 Good potential for sure, originally comes from an herb. We will have to wait and see for more research on long term use for prophylaxis and general health, but generally, it's a nice compound.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo

Cholesterol Status

TRIGLYCERIDES 0.92 mmol/L 0.00

-

2.30

CHOLESTEROL 3.85 mmol/L 0.00

-

4.99

HDL CHOLESTEROL 1.05 mmol/L 0.90

-

1.50

LDL CHOLESTEROL 2.38 mmol/L

0.00

-

3.00

Non

-

HDL Cholesterol

2.8 nmol/L 0.00

-

3.

99

Heart Disease Risk

HDL % OF TOTAL 27.27 % 20.00

-

100.00

ENDOCRINOLOGY

Thyroid Function

THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.56 mIU/L 0.27

-

4.20

FREE THYROXINE 13.63 pmol/L 12.00

-

22.00

Hormone

s

TESTOSTERONE *163.5 nmol/L 7.60

-

31.40

17

-

BETA OESTRADIOL *195.6 pmol/L 0.00

-

191.99


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> Always use pharm grade ancillaries if you can source them, even if sold by UGL. They are easy to find.
> 
> Nolva won't work it's best while you are taking tren, most likely it will stoo the flare up and growth completely, but for full reversal, it should be without tren in the mix.
> 
> Maximum benefit will be seen in 12 weeks, you should start seeing a difference in 4-6 weeks. It's a waiting game. Just add it to your vitamin/supplement stack, mark a day on your calendar for 12 weeks and forget about it.
> 
> You just have to wait, everyone who says ralox doesnt work has not ran it long enough.


 So basically overall calories is the biggest factor.

I find it easier personally eating the smaller more frequent meals, especially in work as it fits around my day

thanks @ElChapo :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> How do you personally calculate your surplus needs e.g what figure do you multiply your bodyweight by?
> 
> How much of deficit, do you put yourself in?
> 
> How much of a surplus do you allow yourself?
> 
> What macro ratio is your preference for bulking & cutting purposes?


 Dirty/whatever bulk: 500-1,000 calorie surplus, keep fat low, carbs high.

Lean bulk: Whatver surplus needed for .25-.5 lbs of gain per week.

Cutting: Generally 20-30% deficit, keeping carbs as high as possible to keep leptin, strength, mood and performance high. Get minimum protein needed to retain lean mass; 1-1.4 g per lbs of LBM.

My preferred macros are high carbs, moderate protein, low fat. Generally, i just favor this diet out of preference because it's the foods that i like (cereal, potatoes, bananas, turkey, chicken, sandwiches, etc) but also from a performance standpoint, carbs will keep strength, mood and metabolism higher than a low carb diet due to maintaining higher leptin and glycogen levels through out the diet.

Fat remains low on surplus as extra fat will be stored more easily than extra carbs/protein. Carbs and protein must first be broken down into glucose before being reconverted into fat. Fat will just be stored directly as fat and it does not contribute to performance or lean tissue in ANY way.


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> I did think that about the muscle loss so i might just stick to around maintenance and lose the weight before I go into a bulk later on in the year/next year.
> 
> Been blasting and cruising for probs well over a year now. Still fairly young so kind of want to come off give myself a bit clear out and let my body sort itself out. Last used HCG on my bulk blast around Feb time. Didn't use it during my cut (past 6-8 weeks or so). Will take a look at his protocol thanks.
> 
> While on the topic, to what scale do you think using steroids at a young-ish age (i'm 22 so use that) will affect my fertility within the next 5 years? I know the question is vague and the answer can be dependent on different things such as fertility without steroids in the first place etc. I know lads having kids on test + tren and the lot. Does worry me staying on the gear but if you want any real progress, it kind of has to be done.


 Eh, i know a lot of people including myself who have knocked people up on high dose tren. You just never know, some guys dont touch a single AAS in their life and cant get a girl preggo no matter how hard the try.

Just run HCG 1,000-2000 IU per week on cycle/blast/cruise if fertility is impprtant to you.

Of course it may negatively affect fertility, that's the risk you take, but even +40 year old juice heads are knocking people up, and that'a before hcg.

In my situation, i did not use HCG at all, high tren cycle (legit tren confirmed with GC/MS) and it still happened.

If you are going to be blasting/crusing, a short break will not do much for you. It would take 6 months to a year to get any decent amount of recovery, pct MIGHT make that faster but you just dont know.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> So, there is no guarantee with gyno from 19Nor. It can happen with low E2 too..  . I beleive it's better to start ralo with adequate AI from start of the cycle to be on a safer side.


 Yes and no. That is why we tell novices to avoid tren, it brings many many sides including stubborn and fast gyno, along with all the mood issues and insomnia.

I would not take ralox from the start as SERMS tend to lower IGF-1.

If you are severely sensitive to tren gyno, i would either pick a different compound or suck it up and reverse the gyno post cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo My bloods came today :-
> 
> HAEMATOLOGY
> 
> Red Blood Cells
> 
> HAEMOGLOBIN (G/L) *185 g/L 130.00
> 
> -
> 
> 170.00
> 
> HCT *0.541 L/L 0.37
> 
> -
> 
> 0.50
> 
> RED CELL COUNT *5.92 x10^12/L 4.40
> 
> -
> 
> 5.80
> 
> MCV 91 fl 80.00
> 
> -
> 
> 99.00
> 
> MCH 31.3 pg
> 
> 26.00
> 
> -
> 
> 33.50
> 
> MCHC (G/L) 342 g/L 300.00
> 
> -
> 
> 350.00
> 
> RDW 12.3 % 11.50
> 
> -
> 
> 15.00
> 
> White
> 
> Blood Cells
> 
> WHITE CELL COUNT *10.7 x10^9/L 3.00
> 
> -
> 
> 10.00
> 
> NEUTROPHILS
> 
> 6.04 x10^9/L 2.00
> 
> -
> 
> 7.50
> 
> LYMPHOCYTES 3.43 x10^9/L 1.20
> 
> -
> 
> 3.65
> 
> MONOCYTES 0.84 x10^9/L 0.20
> 
> -
> 
> 1.00
> 
> EOSINOPHILS 0.30 x10^9/L 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 0.40
> 
> B
> 
> ASOPHILS *0.11 x10^9/L 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 0.10
> 
> Clotting Status
> 
> PLATELET COUNT 328 x10^9/L 150.00
> 
> -
> 
> 400.00
> 
> MPV 9.0 fl 7.00
> 
> -
> 
> 13.00


 HCT is high, donate blood if you can. Should bring it to the top of the range.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> BIOCHEMISTRY
> 
> Kidney Function
> 
> SODIUM *151 mmol/L 135.00
> 
> -
> 
> 145.00
> 
> UREA 6.8 mmol/L 1.70
> 
> -
> 
> 8.30
> 
> CREATININE *123 umol/L 66.00
> 
> -
> 
> 112.00
> 
> Liver Function
> 
> ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 50
> 
> IU/L 40.00
> 
> -
> 
> 129.00
> 
> ALANINE TRANSFERASE 29.9 IU/L 10.00
> 
> -
> 
> 50.00
> 
> CK *446 IU/L 38.00
> 
> -
> 
> 204.00
> 
> GAMMA GT 25 IU/L 10.00
> 
> -
> 
> 71.00
> 
> Proteins
> 
> TOTAL PROTEIN 77.9 g/L 63.00
> 
> -
> 
> 83.00
> 
> ALBUMIN 40.1 g/L 34.00
> 
> -
> 
> 50.00
> 
> GLOBULIN *37.8 g/L 19.00
> 
> -
> 
> 35.00
> 
> Diabetes
> 
> HBA1C (MMOL/MOL) 33.00 mmol/mol 20.00
> 
> -
> 
> 42.00
> 
> Iron Status
> 
> IRON 13.79 umol/L 10.60
> 
> -
> 
> 28.30
> 
> FERRITIN 70.15 ug/L 30.00
> 
> -
> 
> 400.00


 Creatine kinase is a bit high. Could represent heart damage, stroke or myocardial infarction.

Could also just be overtraining, especially with statin use.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Cholesterol Status
> 
> TRIGLYCERIDES 0.92 mmol/L 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 2.30
> 
> CHOLESTEROL 3.85 mmol/L 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 4.99
> 
> HDL CHOLESTEROL 1.05 mmol/L 0.90
> 
> -
> 
> 1.50
> 
> LDL CHOLESTEROL 2.38 mmol/L
> 
> 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 3.00
> 
> Non
> 
> -
> 
> HDL Cholesterol
> 
> 2.8 nmol/L 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 3.
> 
> 99
> 
> Heart Disease Risk
> 
> HDL % OF TOTAL 27.27 % 20.00
> 
> -
> 
> 100.00
> 
> ENDOCRINOLOGY
> 
> Thyroid Function
> 
> THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.56 mIU/L 0.27
> 
> -
> 
> 4.20
> 
> FREE THYROXINE 13.63 pmol/L 12.00
> 
> -
> 
> 22.00
> 
> Hormone
> 
> s
> 
> TESTOSTERONE *163.5 nmol/L 7.60
> 
> -
> 
> 31.40
> 
> 17
> 
> -
> 
> BETA OESTRADIOL *195.6 pmol/L 0.00
> 
> -
> 
> 191.99


 E2 is fine here if you are asymptomatic.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> So basically overall calories is the biggest factor.
> 
> I find it easier personally eating the smaller more frequent meals, especially in work as it fits around my day
> 
> thanks @ElChapo :thumb


 All preference brother, anytime.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Always use pharm grade ancillaries if you can source them, even if sold by UGL. They are easy to find.
> 
> Nolva won't work it's best while you are taking tren, most likely it will stoo the flare up and growth completely, but for full reversal, it should be without tren in the mix.
> 
> Maximum benefit will be seen in 12 weeks, you should start seeing a difference in 4-6 weeks. It's a waiting game. Just add it to your vitamin/supplement stack, mark a day on your calendar for 12 weeks and forget about it.
> 
> You just have to wait, everyone who says ralox doesnt work has not ran it long enough.


 The UGL nolva was just what I had from a while ago but being paranoid I thought it may be bunk as after a week there was no change in (puffyness) now using pharma.

So if the nolva aint going to do much for my gyno which lets say is from the tren, am I better dropping it and increasing my adex further from 2g per week? Waiting for my sources to stock ralox? Should I maybe consider letro or will adex be enough.


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> Eh, i know a lot of people including myself who have knocked people up on high dose tren. You just never know, some guys dont touch a single AAS in their life and cant get a girl preggo no matter how hard the try.
> 
> Just run HCG 1,000-2000 IU per week on cycle/blast/cruise if fertility is impprtant to you.
> 
> Of course it may negatively affect fertility, that's the risk you take, but even +40 year old juice heads are knocking people up, and that'a before hcg.
> 
> In my situation, i did not use HCG at all, high tren cycle (legit tren confirmed with GC/MS) and it still happened.
> 
> If you are going to be blasting/crusing, a short break will not do much for year. It would take 6 months to a year to get any decent amount of recovery, pct MIGHT make that faster but you just dont know.


 See listening to you just makes me think fcuk it and carry on blasting & cruising :lol: (kinda music to any gear users ears lol). Fertility is important to me - but very true about the fact others get people pregnant on all sorts.

Kind of agree about a short break. I'd probably try and take 3-4 months off if I could although we all know how easy you can get yourself to jump back on. It may be worth doing so with a month of PCT.


----------



## Sevn

Being 6 weeks out on Test, Tren, Mast and Winstrol.

Goal is to be really peeled.

Would it be worth it to add 4iu's of GH pre fasted cardio... yohimbine is already being taken.

Or M-tren 2mg pre workout.

Reason I'm asking because budget is tight diet is loads of white fish n asparagus and don't know if it will be worth it.

GH will be ran 3 weeks if I run it.

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> The UGL nolva was just what I had from a while ago but being paranoid I thought it may be bunk as after a week there was no change in (puffyness) now using pharma.
> 
> So if the nolva aint going to do much for my gyno which lets say is from the tren, am I better dropping it and increasing my adex further from 2g per week? Waiting for my sources to stock ralox? Should I maybe consider letro or will adex be enough.


 No, only enough adex to bring E2 into normal range. Nuking E2 won'd do anything but you make you feel like ass.

Nolva/raloxifene will do absolutely 0% in 1 week. You need to take this for 6-12 weeks for significant improvement.

Arimidex is enough, you don't need letrozole. Keep running nolvadex, expect 6 weeks to see improvement.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Yes and no. That is why we tell novices to avoid tren, it brings many many sides including stubborn and fast gyno, along with all the mood issues and insomnia.
> 
> I would not take ralox from the start as SERMS tend to lower IGF-1.
> 
> If you are severely sensitive to tren gyno, i would either pick a different compound or suck it up and reverse the gyno post cycle.


 Same goes for Nandrolone?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Same goes for Nandrolone?


 It can cause gyno too, but much less often than trenbolone.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> It can cause gyno too, but much less often than trenbolone.


 I am planning to do. Deca 400 with test 125 mg per week. What would be your recommendation on use of AI and SERM on cycle?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I am planning to do. Deca 400 with test 125 mg per week. What would be your recommendation on use of AI and SERM on cycle?


 Keep SERM on hand in case you get a flare up (Very unlikely). Don't use it until you need it.

Run 0.5-1 mg adex once a week, or split x 2 per week with your shots. You can inject E7D or 3.5 days and take your adex together with the pin so you don't forget.

You might not need adex, but you can run it from the start as prophylaxis.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Yes and no. That is why we tell novices to avoid tren, it brings many many sides including stubborn and fast gyno, along with all the mood issues and insomnia.
> 
> I would not take ralox from the start as SERMS tend to lower IGF-1.
> 
> If you are severely sensitive to tren gyno, i would either pick a different compound or suck it up and reverse the gyno post cycle.


 Out of Interest, would there be a benefit of running nolva/ralox during Tren use to prevent gyno flare up in the first place?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Out of Interest, would there be a benefit of running nolva/ralox during Tren use to prevent gyno flare up in the first place?


 Ralox lowers IGF-1. If you are very sensitive to tren gyno, you could run 60 mg raloxifene through the cycle, but you could also pick a different compound. You don't NEED trenbolone.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> E2 is fine here if you are asymptomatic.


 Thank you for the imput much appreciated I will look to donate if I can.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> No, only enough adex to bring E2 into normal range. Nuking E2 won'd do anything but you make you feel like ass.
> 
> Nolva/raloxifene will do absolutely 0% in 1 week. You need to take this for 6-12 weeks for significant improvement.
> 
> Arimidex is enough, you don't need letrozole. Keep running nolvadex, expect 6 weeks to see improvement.


 Dont know if you missed the other part, but I asked if it could be anything else other than gyno... when I get out the shower and when I train they are tight, NO puffyness what so ever.

I did actually have the ONE puffy nip when I was competing natural before any steroids, and even my first cycle (test eq) it was just the one, but after the tren they both flared up.

Been doing abit of research and alot of people say they got rid of the puffyness through cutting gluten, but I hardly have gluten so thats ticked off... another thing was excessive sodium, but I consume 3000/3500 on avg, 4000 on a bad day, but this dont seem like excessive sodium for someone who trains 5/6 days aweek.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Dont know if you missed the other part, but I asked if it could be anything else other than gyno... when I get out the shower and when I train they are tight, NO puffyness what so ever.
> 
> I did actually have the ONE puffy nip when I was competing natural before any steroids, and even my first cycle (test eq) it was just the one, but after the tren they both flared up.
> 
> Been doing abit of research and alot of people say they got rid of the puffyness through cutting gluten, but I hardly have gluten so thats ticked off... another thing was excessive sodium, but I consume 3000/3500 on avg, 4000 on a bad day, but this dont seem like excessive sodium for someone who trains 5/6 days aweek.


 It's normal for gyno to look normal and "tighten" up. It's most likely gyno or the start of it. Is it puffy only or is there lump formation?

Gluten causing gyno = Stupidest s**t i have heard this month.

Definitely not sodium either.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Creatine kinase is a bit high. Could represent heart damage, stroke or myocardial infarction.
> 
> Could also just be overtraining, especially with statin use.


 Could CK be high due to my kidneys when I was 5 year old I almost died from Nephritis ?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> It's normal for gyno to look normal and "tighten" up. It's most likely gyno or the start of it. Is it puffy only or is there lump formation?
> 
> Gluten causing gyno = Stupidest s**t i have heard this month.
> 
> Definitely not sodium either.


 The puffy is like fluid, then theres like a squidgy type lump under the fluid.

Literally went to the gp today and he said theres no lump, obviously he must of not been looking in the right place lol

Hahaha thats what I thought

Think I'm trying to convince myself its not gyno lol

So its more than likey gyno from high e2... which the 2g adex and 20 nolva should eventually reduce, if its more prolactin realated then will the adex/nolva still reduce it or do I need a different approach (caber/prami/ralox)... ,no lactation as of yet.

Theres so many conflicting views.. e2 gyno: adex/arom/letro/nolva... prolactin gyno: caber/prami/ralox thats what I've always heard coach trev (ea) etc

Sorry to keep going on about gyno but I'm just confused what to do, been loving this blast up to yet, but its started to get me down last few days.

Like you said earlier I maybe need to let the increase in adex do its job and only on 7th day of nolva, so im probably trying to rush things.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Could CK be high due to my kidneys when I was 5 year old I almost died from Nephritis ?


 Nope


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> The puffy is like fluid, then theres like a squidgy type lump under the fluid.
> 
> Literally went to the gp today and he said theres no lump, obviously he must of not been looking in the right place lol
> 
> Hahaha thats what I thought
> 
> Think I'm trying to convince myself its not gyno lol
> 
> So its more than likey gyno from high e2... which the 2g adex and 20 nolva should eventually reduce, if its more prolactin realated then will the adex/nolva still reduce it or do I need a different approach (caber/prami/ralox)... ,no lactation as of yet.
> 
> Theres so many conflicting views.. e2 gyno: adex/arom/letro/nolva... prolactin gyno: caber/prami/ralox thats what I've always heard coach trev (ea) etc
> 
> Sorry to keep going on about gyno but I'm just confused what to do, been loving this blast up to yet, but its started to get me down last few days.
> 
> Like you said earlier I maybe need to let the increase in adex do its job and only on 7th day of nolva, so im probably trying to rush things.


 If it's legit nolva and adex, it will go away. raloxifene is better.

It definitely gyno, i'm sure.

Don't stress over it, it will go away for sure with the SERM treatment. You need to be patient.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> If it's legit nolva and adex, it will go away. raloxifene is better.
> 
> It definitely gyno, i'm sure.
> 
> Don't stress over it, it will go away for sure with the SERM treatment. You need to be patient.


 Thanks elchapo, always seem to put my mind at ease... unlike my gp lol


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Nope


 Sorry to butt in here but my CK is always 300 to 700 and I have been told by my doctor that this is due to regular strenuous weight training i do 4 to 5 times a week and it's not if you worry about. Also googling this you see many other blood results on forums with people with the same markers.

I Have no other bad markers in terms of heart of cholesterol or liver and BP is good.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Sorry to butt in here but my CK is always 300 to 700 and I have been told by my doctor that this is due to regular strenuous weight training i do 4 to 5 times a week and it's not if you worry about. Also googling this you see many other blood results on forums with people with the same markers.
> 
> I Have no other bad markers in terms of heart of cholesterol or liver and BP is good.


 Yes, i already stated it can be due to overtraining.

Muscle damage release CK.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Yes, i already stated it can be due to overtraining.
> 
> Muscle damage release CK.


 Indeed I see that but don't belive I overtrain lol...


----------



## JohhnyC

youarewhatyoueat said:


> The puffy is like fluid, then theres like a squidgy type lump under the fluid.
> 
> Literally went to the gp today and he said theres no lump, obviously he must of not been looking in the right place lol
> 
> Hahaha thats what I thought
> 
> Think I'm trying to convince myself its not gyno lol
> 
> So its more than likey gyno from high e2... which the 2g adex and 20 nolva should eventually reduce, if its more prolactin realated then will the adex/nolva still reduce it or do I need a different approach (caber/prami/ralox)... ,no lactation as of yet.
> 
> Theres so many conflicting views.. e2 gyno: adex/arom/letro/nolva... prolactin gyno: caber/prami/ralox thats what I've always heard coach trev (ea) etc
> 
> Sorry to keep going on about gyno but I'm just confused what to do, been loving this blast up to yet, but its started to get me down last few days.
> 
> Like you said earlier I maybe need to let the increase in adex do its job and only on 7th day of nolva, so im probably trying to rush things.


 sounds exactly like me last year mate on Test Dec and Oxy. Same symptoms on 0.5mg EOD, Got worried and jumped on nolva 20mg, kept it bay for rest of the cycle

@ElChapo

with all the guess work about high E and Low E from AAS users in absence of bloods, (as half the time the symptoms seem similar!) would you hazard a guess that the majority are tending too drive E too low with AI or not doing enough AI in your experience. Realise its a guess work in absence of bloods!

For me, I have a tendency to go top heavy on AI as I am paranoid about gyno and want water retention reduced. Now when I go from 0.5mg E4D to E2D I see no difference in terms of negative sides (loss of libido) so with this limited information, I have a tendency to play safe in terms of letting E get too high


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> sounds exactly like me last year mate on Test Dec and Oxy. Same symptoms on 0.5mg EOD, Got worried and jumped on nolva 20mg, kept it bay for rest of the cycle
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> with all the guess work about high E and Low E from AAS users in absence of bloods, (as half the time the symptoms seem similar!) would you hazard a guess that the majority are tending too drive E too low with AI or not doing enough AI in your experience. Realise its a guess work in absence of bloods!
> 
> For me, I have a tendency to go top heavy on AI as I am paranoid about gyno and want water retention reduced. Now when I go from 0.5mg E4D to E2D I see no difference in terms of negative sides (loss of libido) so with this limited information, I have a tendency to play safe in terms of letting E get too high


 Not a question i can answer, everyone is different. I do see people overdoing the AI more often than not though.


----------



## Chelsea

@ElChapo @ghost.recon first of all, thanks for the great contribution for the board, its a fantastic read! I thought i knew quite a bit but you guys take it to a whole other level!

My questions:

1. Primo seems to have a huge following yet i fail to see what makes it any better than something like Masterone. Is there any truth behind all this "wonder drug" legacy, or is it more a case of it was used a lot in the golden era and now people think its far better than it actually is?

2. Blasting and cruising - what would you say would be an adequate cruise for someone that has been blasting for 12-14 weeks, usually Test 400 with Deca or Tren E (the blast that is, not the cruise, cruise would be Test 400)

3. Insulin and GH - can these be used year round if they are just being used pre and post workout. Its to my understanding that Gh is the one to worry about whereas Insulin is fairly safe if you're not an idiot with it.

Thanks.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Keep SERM on hand in case you get a flare up (Very unlikely). Don't use it until you need it.
> 
> Run 0.5-1 mg adex once a week, or split x 2 per week with your shots. You can inject E7D or 3.5 days and take your adex together with the pin so you don't forget.
> 
> You might not need adex, but you can run it from the start as prophylaxis.


 Great. So, pinning less is good for me as it would be my first cycle. I am also thinking of running HCG 1000 IU Per week. Do you think it's better to split the dosage or once shot of 1000 IU would be good to go as well but maintain a gap of couple of days between HCG shot and Deca/Test shot or shot everything on one day and take adex on the day of the shot?

Too many scenarios in one statement


----------



## Jordan08

One more question, several studies have shown that minoxidil affects skin collagen. How to combat that issue, if it's really true?. Do you think supplementing with Vitamin C would take care of that issue?


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Creatine kinase is a bit high. Could represent heart damage, stroke or myocardial infarction.
> 
> Could also just be overtraining, especially with statin use.


 Hi mate

this has got me worried a tad (ESP as you mentioned heart and my previous/current concerns!)

my CK came back as 2147 out of reference range 38-204.

doc report just said it may be because of "high muscle mass,l or engaging in physical activity/eating rich protein beforehand"

comments? Thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon first of all, thanks for the great contribution for the board, its a fantastic read! I thought i knew quite a bit but you guys take it to a whole other level!
> 
> My questions:
> 
> 1. Primo seems to have a huge following yet i fail to see what makes it any better than something like Masterone. Is there any truth behind all this "wonder drug" legacy, or is it more a case of it was used a lot in the golden era and now people think its far better than it actually is?
> 
> 2. Blasting and cruising - what would you say would be an adequate cruise for someone that has been blasting for 12-14 weeks, usually Test 400 with Deca or Tren E (the blast that is, not the cruise, cruise would be Test 400)
> 
> 3. Insulin and GH - can these be used year round if they are just being used pre and post workout. Its to my understanding that Gh is the one to worry about whereas Insulin is fairly safe if you're not an idiot with it.
> 
> Thanks.


 1. You're always gonna get those "flavor of the month" compounds and steroids. Training, genetics, nutrition dictate results and physique, then drugs. Nothing wrong with trying new compounds and seeing what the hype is about, you might love it or hate it, but you will only know if you try it. Some guys swear by tren and winstrol, others have sworn of them. Individual response and all that...

2. Cruise would be 150-500 mg test E per week depending on your level.

3. GH is fairly safe, very high doses for long periods of time can lead to insulin resistance, usually temporary and is offset by being lean, having a lot of muscle and using insulin, so it's not a common issue for bodybuilders.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Great. So, pinning less is good for me as it would be my first cycle. I am also thinking of running HCG 1000 IU Per week. Do you think it's better to split the dosage or once shot of 1000 IU would be good to go as well but maintain a gap of couple of days between HCG shot and Deca/Test shot or shot everything on one day and take adex on the day of the shot?
> 
> Too many scenarios in one statement


 HCG should be split x 2 per week. I would take AI, AAS, and HCG same days. Makes it convenient and easy to remember.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Hi mate
> 
> this has got me worried a tad (ESP as you mentioned heart and my previous/current concerns!)
> 
> my CK came back as 2147 out of reference range 38-204.
> 
> doc report just said it may be because of "high muscle mass,l or engaging in physical activity/eating rich protein beforehand"
> 
> comments? Thanks mate


 That is definitely a worry, grant if, if you are huge and training very hard, MAYBE...but that is a very high CK level.

What's your recent cycling, training history and blood pressure, etc?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> One more question, several studies have shown that minoxidil affects skin collagen. How to combat that issue, if it's really true?. Do you think supplementing with Vitamin C would take care of that issue?


 Vitamin C won't do s**t, I would use nizoral instead.


----------



## Chelsea

ElChapo said:


> 1. You're always gonna get those "flavor of the month" compounds and steroids. Training, genetics, nutrition dictate results and physique, then drugs. Nothing wrong with trying new compounds and seeing what the hype is about, you might love it or hate it, but you will only know if you try it. Some guys swear by tren and winstrol, others have sworn of them. Individual response and all that...
> 
> 2. Cruise would be 150-500 mg test E per week depending on your level.
> 
> 3. GH is fairly safe, very high doses for long periods of time can lead to insulin resistance, usually temporary and is offset by being lean, having a lot of muscle and using insulin, so it's not a common issue for bodybuilders.


 With regards to the cruise i meant more time-wise i.e the length of the cruise as opposed to the dose.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Vitamin C won't do s**t, I would use nizoral instead.


 Nizoral helps with skin collagen as well?


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> With regards to the cruise i meant more time-wise i.e the length of the cruise as opposed to the dose.


 The longer the better, the more time you are on high doses, the more your liver and lipids and heart are going to be stressed and affected. It's going to depend on what you are blasting. If you are blast harsh s**t like high dose tren and orals, you are gonna wanna take at least 3 months off. Someone doing mild stuff like moderate dose test and deca won't need as much, but it's going to depend on your individual tolerance, lab work, how health conscious you are, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Nizoral helps with skin collagen as well?


 No, nizoral is as effective as rogaine in preventing/slowing down hair loss without the side effects.


----------



## bornagod

You've touched on the subject tren gyno quite a bit lately, would it be dose dependant? Or is it if your going to get tren gyno your going to get tren gyno?


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> That is definitely a worry, grant if, if you are huge and training very hard, MAYBE...but that is a very high CK level.
> 
> What's your recent cycling, training history and blood pressure, etc?


 Nah I'm about 190lbs 12% BF so nothing incredible. Although this is after a 7 month lay off. Was bigger and leaner before.

Trained for a good 5 years and Ive blasted and cruised on low dosages for about 2 years. 7 months of this was whilst injured with no training and I ran 100-125mg test PW as I didn't want to come off during a period of no training etc.

For the other periods, blasts have been always low test 150-250mg, with tren e 200-400mg and a lowish dose oral thrown in sometimes. Tried various stims/fat burners but never anything major.

I have tried to stick to 3 month blast 3 month cruise.

The 7 month of no training did end about a month before this test, and as soon as I started training again, I went pretty hard high volume workouts 3-5x a week. I've seen pretty drastic body comp changes in the last 2 months since training again (muscle memory and tren).

my current BP is 125/140 - 70/80 whilst on 300mg tren e 125mg test 20mg epi.

My bp has always been fairly decent tbh, it's way lower than that when i was cruising (like 110/120 to 65/70ish) If I can recall.

Everything else on my bloods came back spot on except f**ked up hdl/ldl (like 18% ratio) which I assume is pretty normal on tren + oral even on what's considered a low dose.

Shall I get an ecg booked in to get my ticker checked out? I was planning to anyways at some stage. that should show anything up, right?

I'm dropping the EPI as well. Decided test and tren is more than enough for my goals

just checked back to my bloods a year ago whilst cruising and training and CK was 215.

(I've also been on amitrpytline as you know for 6 months which can have negative cardiovascular effects)


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> You've touched on the subject tren gyno quite a bit lately, would it be dose dependant? Or is it if your going to get tren gyno your going to get tren gyno?


 Dose dependent, i have issues myself after 300 mg per week of acetate. Enanthate does not give me any trouble, may be due to higher peak levels from acetate.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Nah I'm about 190lbs 12% BF so nothing incredible. Although this is after a 7 month lay off. Was bigger and leaner before.
> 
> Trained for a good 5 years and Ive blasted and cruised on low dosages for about 2 years. 7 months of this was whilst injured with no training and I ran 100-125mg test PW as I didn't want to come off during a period of no training etc.
> 
> For the other periods, blasts have been always low test 150-250mg, with tren e 200-400mg and a lowish dose oral thrown in sometimes. Tried various stims/fat burners but never anything major.
> 
> I have tried to stick to 3 month blast 3 month cruise.
> 
> The 7 month of no training did end about a month before this test, and as soon as I started training again, I went pretty hard high volume workouts 3-5x a week. I've seen pretty drastic body comp changes in the last 2 months since training again (muscle memory and tren).
> 
> my current BP is 125/140 - 70/80 whilst on 300mg tren e 125mg test 20mg epi.
> 
> My bp has always been fairly decent tbh, it's way lower than that when i was cruising (like 110/120 to 65/70ish) If I can recall.
> 
> Everything else on my bloods came back spot on except f**ked up hdl/ldl (like 18% ratio) which I assume is pretty normal on tren + oral even on what's considered a low dose.
> 
> Shall I get an ecg booked in to get my ticker checked out? I was planning to anyways at some stage. that should show anything up, right?
> 
> I'm dropping the EPI as well. Decided test and tren is more than enough for my goals


 If you just got back into training and went very hard, it may just be muscle damage but levels like that always warrant a closer inspection.

Tren will usually rape your lipids, so that's expected.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> If you just got back into training and went very hard, it may just be muscle damage but levels like that always warrant a closer inspection.
> 
> Tren will usually rape your lipids, so that's expected.


 No harder than I've always trained I guess. Just lots of added volume. I haven't done much low rep stength compound training (which I used to a lot). I suppose the higher rep and volume may cause more "muscle damage".

Think I'll book an ecg in as no point dealing with anxiety about it all!


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> No harder than I've always trained I guess. Just lots of added volume. I haven't done much low rep stength compound training (which I used to a lot). I suppose the higher rep and volume may cause more "muscle damage".
> 
> Think I'll book an ecg in as no point dealing with anxiety about it all!


 Definitely look into it, this is one the labs used to diagnose heart attack.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Definitely look into it, this is one the labs used to diagnose heart attack.


 Cheers mate (nearly got a heart attack seeing that ha).

ima drop tren and everything (jab night tonight) and just go 125mg test to lower everything and get checked out.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> 110% bullshit.
> 
> You are doing good focusing in your protein+calories. will dictate fat loss, period. All that insulin bullshit is false.


 What's your views on deca/npp for joints. E.g. having 150mg wk


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> What's your views on deca/npp for joints. E.g. having 150mg wk


 It's a nice addition to HRT/Cruise as long as it doesn't cause issues with your lab work. It can help your joints and enhance strength and muscle preservation on a cruise.


----------



## Sevn

Sevn said:


> Being 6 weeks out on Test, Tren, Mast and Winstrol.
> 
> Goal is to be really peeled.
> 
> Would it be worth it to add 4iu's of GH pre fasted cardio... yohimbine is already being
> 
> Or something like Mtren/Var Combo
> 
> Reason I'm asking because budget is tight diet is loads of white fish n asparagus and don't know if it will be worth it.
> 
> GH will be ran 3 weeks if I run it.
> 
> @ElChapo


 @ElChapo

Bumping incase you missed.


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Currently running test,tren,mast and winstrol, cutting down for summer.

i always run 10mg nolva ED when I run tren as it seems to give me gyno even when e2 is well within range (had bloodwork multiple times to prove this)

Just wanted to know your thoughts on if 10mg nolva would reduce igf-1 enough to actually have any effect, considering I'm cutting and also on the cycle i stated above.


----------



## ElChapo

Sevn said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Bumping incase you missed.


 Didn't see it

Fat loss will come down to sticking to your deficit.

AAS will dry you out and pump the muscle fibers from the inside, giving you that pumped-3D-Dry look.

Yohimbine will make the stubborn low ab/belly fat melt off like you would regular fat.

GH won't do much for you really at this point, especially for only 3 weeks and the little you would get out of it for the cash.

Most guys do not need GH for their goals, it's mostly for guys looking to blow up, get quicker gains, or for anti-aging.


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> Didn't see it
> 
> Fat loss will come down to sticking to your deficit.
> 
> AAS will dry you out and pump the muscle fibers from the inside, giving you that pumped-3D-Dry look.
> 
> *Yohimbine will make the stubborn low ab/belly fat melt off like you would regular fat.*
> 
> GH won't do much for you really at this point, especially for only 3 weeks and the little you would get out of it for the cash.
> 
> Most guys do not need GH for their goals, it's mostly for guys looking to blow up, get quicker gains, or for anti-aging.
> 
> 1


 Tempted to get some off this stuff for my cut. Like the sound of that!!


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo 200 TestE 200 TrenE 200 MastE a week can be considered a "cruise" dose for an athlete that wants to maintain a good body or even cut during cruise?

Often we cut on shitloads of steroids when we could just have a good bodybuilding "cruise" and cut on it then add AAS and use more gear to blast and grow....


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> Tempted to get some off this stuff for my cut. Like the sound of that!!


 It's an amazing compound, but similar to tren, some people don't feel too good on it. Those sensitive to anxiety/panic attacks should start slowly to assess tolerance.

It can increase libido, and has a strong effect on erections. Also great as a pre-workout and overall stimulant for work and productivity. Make sure it's YOHIM*BINE* and not YOHIM*BE.*


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo 200 TestE 200 TrenE 200 MastE a week can be considered a "cruise" dose for an athlete that wants to maintain a good body or even cut during cruise?
> 
> Often we cut on shitloads of steroids when we could just have a good bodybuilding "cruise" and cut on it then add AAS and use more gear to blast and grow....


 For cruise, i'd stick to 100 of each for a total of 300 mg max. Tren is more potent on a mg basis in terms of anabolic effect and sides, so take this into account.

I would rather you go 150/150 test/mast or 150/150 test/tren or 100/100/100.

Exactly, extra AAS is just stressing the body furthers, wasting more time pinning, and oil that could be put to better use on a caloric surplus.

Generally, 300-600 mg of total AAS per week is more than enough to cut on while preserving all your muscle tissue.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> For cruise, i'd stick to 100 of each for a total of 300 mg max. Tren is more potent on a mg basis in terms of anabolic effect and sides, so take this into account.
> 
> I would rather you go 150/150 test/mast or 150/150 test/tren or 100/100/100.
> 
> Exactly, extra AAS is just stressing the body furthers, wasting more time pinning, and oil that could be put to better use on a caloric surplus.
> 
> Generally, 300-600 mg of total AAS per week is more than enough to cut on while preserving all your muscle tissue.


 Atm i am cutting on 400 PrimoE 350 MastP 350 TrenA will add 350 Winstrol last month.

Have lots of PrimoE at home and want to try that No Test cut and see how it will go.

Then all out Test Tren Winstrol HGH Slin bulk as you suggested.

Your are great mate. Thx for all your kind and informative answers.


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Currently running test,tren,mast and winstrol, cutting down for summer.
> 
> i always run 10mg nolva ED when I run tren as it seems to give me gyno even when e2 is well within range (had bloodwork multiple times to prove this)
> 
> Just wanted to know your thoughts on if 10mg nolva would reduce igf-1 enough to actually have any effect, considering I'm cutting and also on the cycle i stated above.


 Yeah, tren can cause gyno independent of E2 levels.

If 10 mg nolva lets you run tren with no gyno flare ups and you are still getting good results, then i don't see an issue.

It might lower IGF-1, but with the anabolic effects of AAS through the androgen receptor, mTOR pathway, etc which are independent of IGF-1 and good training/diet, it shouldn't be a problem. 10 mg is a nice low dose. Be wary of long-term nolvadex use, as it has been shown to have a toxic effect on brain cells.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Atm i am cutting on 400 PrimoE 350 MastP 350 TrenA will add 350 Winstrol last month.
> 
> Have lots of PrimoE at home and want to try that No Test cut and see how it will go.
> 
> Then all out Test Tren Winstrol HGH Slin bulk as you suggested.
> 
> Your are great mate. Thx for all your kind and informative answers.


 Sounds good, as long as you are reasonable and don't abuse your body, you can get away with a lot. Just keep an eye on things, and stay healthy otherwise(avoid recreational drug use/drinking, etc. Stay under 15% body fat, do some cardio).


----------



## zariph

hello, I also made a thread about this but maybe you could help

I have been on clomid monetherapy for 3 months, 12mg eod. Sadly im experiencing gynocomastia which I guess is because of elevated e2? Im not sure what would be the best to aid in this neither is my doctor. We are discussing whether to go clomid+tamoxifen or clomid+raloxifen or clomid+anastrozel or clomid+letrozole.

Could some1 please help me what to add to my 12mg eod of clomid? If you have any better suggestions please tell!

All help are much appreciated!


----------



## Sevn

ElChapo said:


> It's an amazing compound, but similar to tren, some people don't feel too good on it. Those sensitive to anxiety/panic attacks should start slowly to assess tolerance.
> 
> It can increase libido, and has a strong effect on erections. Also great as a pre-workout and overall stimulant for work and productivity. Make sure it's YOHIM*BINE* and not YOHIM*BE.*


 Yohimbine is truly amazing... I get insane anxiety and panic attacks if I don't slowly build up my dose from 10mg slowly tapering up every week 5mg to 20mg's. Don't get the libido effect though seems the opposite my fella turtles up but half life is short so doesn't last long.

Thanks for replying! Had a few more questions you mentioned HGH is not needed for most people goals.

Would it be needed to compete at the olympian level of let's say Classic Physique and at what age?

First guy that comes in mind would be Chris Bumstead, is that physique achievable without GH at that age?

I'm only 21yrs old but my coach is pretty big on GH, but I just mentioned I couldn't afford it but he says it's a game changer and when he introduces 10iu's of generics his basal kcal demands increase easily by 1000, don't know how true this is.

Also have a very close friend 22yrs old who did v well at dutch nationals who's coached by Milos and I've seen his drug regimen and it's nothing crazy but Milos always has him on 10iu's of Generics.

Technically I could afford it... but I wouldn't be able to put any money aside into my savings anymore. Which I'm tempted to do because I see similar people my age wasting everything on designer clothes and going out every friday and saturday but if it's just a 5% difference I'd rather save some money for the future.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> hello, I also made a thread about this but maybe you could help
> 
> I have been on clomid monetherapy for 3 months, 12mg eod. Sadly im experiencing gynocomastia which I guess is because of elevated e2? Im not sure what would be the best to aid in this neither is my doctor. We are discussing whether to go clomid+tamoxifen or clomid+raloxifen or clomid+anastrozel or clomid+letrozole.
> 
> Could some1 please help me what to add to my 12mg eod of clomid? If you have any better suggestions please tell!
> 
> All help are much appreciated!


 Clomid monotherapy is garbage for most people. Even with a huge increase in endogenous testosterone production, the zuclomiphene isomer of clomid (the estrogen agonist) will bind to E2 receptors in the brain, making you feel the mental symptoms of high estradiol levels.

Your best bet is HCG+AI or straight up TRT. Clomiphene monotherapy is subpar treatment for hypogonadism, and clomid does not have the best safety profile.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Clomid monotherapy is garbage for most people. Even with a huge increase in endogenous testosterone production, the zuclomiphene isomer of clomid (the estrogen agonist) will bind to E2 receptors in the brain, making you feel the mental symptoms of high estradiol levels.
> 
> Your best bet is HCG+AI or straight up TRT. Clomiphene monotherapy is subpar treatment for hypogonadism, and clomid does not have the best safety profile.


 Already been on clomid for 3 months now, so not sure how to handle the gyno tho?


----------



## ElChapo

Sevn said:


> Yohimbine is truly amazing... I get insane anxiety and panic attacks if I don't slowly build up my dose from 10mg slowly tapering up every week 5mg to 20mg's. Don't get the libido effect though seems the opposite my fella turtles up but half life is short so doesn't last long.
> 
> Thanks for replying! Had a few more questions you mentioned HGH is not needed for most people goals.
> 
> Would it be needed to compete at the olympian level of let's say Classic Physique and at what age?
> 
> First guy that comes in mind would be Chris Bumstead, is that physique achievable without GH at that age?
> 
> I'm only 21yrs old but my coach is pretty big on GH, but I just mentioned I couldn't afford it but he says it's a game changer and when he introduces 10iu's of generics his basal kcal demands increase easily by 1000, don't know how true this is.
> 
> Also have a very close friend 22yrs old who did v well at dutch nationals who's coached by Milos and I've seen his drug regimen and it's nothing crazy but Milos always has him on 10iu's of Generics.
> 
> Technically I could afford it... but I wouldn't be able to put any money aside into my savings anymore. Which I'm tempted to do because I see similar people my age wasting everything on designer clothes and going out every friday and saturday but if it's just a 5% difference I'd rather save some money for the future.


 I would consider it for classic physique, but those physiques were built before the age of growth hormone. If anything, you could build the physique faster with GH/insulin.

Chris Bumstead is a genetic freak who has been blasting since he was a teenager, most guys will never look like that, period.

I hope your coach isn't selling the GH...If you aren't advanced/filthy rich, there is really no point. 1,000 calories BMR? Only DNP could even get close to that. Your coach is full of s**t.

You also never know if your generics are legit or not, you would have to do bloodwork for IGF-1 if not serum GH to confirm potency/authenticity. Tons of fake garbage out there that guys are spending hard earned paychecks on for no reason thinking it's a "game changer"


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Already been on clomid for 3 months now, so not sure how to handle the gyno tho?


 For the gyno, raloxifene 60 mg daily for 12 weeks or until it's gone. If it's new gyno, it should be gone in 6ish weeks.

How developed is the gyno? Describe the lumps, hard, tender, puffy, etc? If it's new, it will be very easy to treat. Stay away from clomid monotherapy for TRT, It's a waste.

Remember clomid is an estrogen AGONIST. It is literally an estrogen and an anti-estrogen. That estrogenic effect will always keep you from feeling your best no matter how good your blood work is looking. TRT is safer and more effective. The choice is yours.


----------



## zariph

Gyno has been there for 2 months atleast...thing is now its getting worse..so thought of maybe starting 1 month with an AI and then switch to ralox?


----------



## kasabian19

Jatin Bhatia said:


> One more question, several studies have shown that minoxidil affects skin collagen. How to combat that issue, if it's really true?. Do you think supplementing with Vitamin C would take care of that issue?


 It definitely does. Minoxidil usage for 6 months when I was 25 aged me massively. The only thing that has helped in a big way is tretinoin cream (it has been show in studies to reverse sun damage to skin). A year of that has helped my skin no end. Firmer, tighter, fine lines way less visible. It's dirt cheap too. Would certainly advise.


----------



## Sevn

ElChapo said:


> I would consider it for classic physique, but those physiques were built before the age of growth hormone. If anything, you could build the physique faster with GH/insulin.
> 
> Chris Bumstead is a genetic freak who has been blasting since he was a teenager, most guys will never look like that, period.
> 
> I hope your coach isn't selling the GH...If you aren't advanced/filthy rich, there is really no point. 1,000 calories BMR? Only DNP could even get close to that. Your coach is full of s**t.
> 
> You also never know if your generics are legit or not, you would have to do bloodwork for IGF-1 if not serum GH to confirm potency/authenticity. Tons of fake garbage out there that guys are spending hard earned paychecks on for no reason thinking it's a "game changer"


 This post was really insightful, thank you very much for clearing everything up.

He isn't selling them, he recommends pharma else black or grey tops. I'll hold off the GH for this prep maybe consider it for the future for a rebound.

What dose would you recommend minimum? Either pharma or generics.

Also is insulin viable without GH? My diet is v strict. I place all my carbs around my workout perimeter to always maximise mtor and rest is pro/fat-


----------



## Dan TT

So decided to prolong the coming off at least for another 5-6 weeks while I cut down about 8-10lb of fat hopefully. Plan is to be on 1.5ml test cyp a week (375mg) nothing major just to cut down. Would it be beneficial to run HCG during this period?

Might just get leaner then end up deciding to bulk knowing my indecisive mind :lol: So much conflicting information about staying on / coming off etc. Considering i'm quite a way off competing level it seems silly to stay on but I feel like it's kind of time wasted. Also the process of coming off makes feel like s**t mentally.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Gyno has been there for 2 months atleast...thing is now its getting worse..so thought of maybe starting 1 month with an AI and then switch to ralox?


 Aromatase inhibitor will not reverse gyno. You should get off the clomid, start real TRT and raloxifene.


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> It definitely does. Minoxidil usage for 6 months when I was 25 aged me massively. The only thing that has helped in a big way is tretinoin cream (it has been show in studies to reverse sun damage to skin). A year of that has helped my skin no end. Firmer, tighter, fine lines way less visible. It's dirt cheap too. Would certainly advise.


 You're not the first i've spoken to who has facial skin changes from minoxidil.


----------



## ElChapo

Sevn said:


> This post was really insightful, thank you very much for clearing everything up.
> 
> He isn't selling them, he recommends pharma else black or grey tops. I'll hold off the GH for this prep maybe consider it for the future for a rebound.
> 
> What dose would you recommend minimum? Either pharma or generics.
> 
> Also is insulin viable without GH? My diet is v strict. I place all my carbs around my workout perimeter to always maximise mtor and rest is pro/fat-


 Don't use insulin without GH, GH helps insulin shuttle nutrients to muscle instead of fat cells. It works both way. GH decreases insulin sensitivity in high doses, so they are very synergistic.

3 IU of good GH, no insulin. if you are trying to get huge, +8 IU for starters+insulin with meals.


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> So decided to prolong the coming off at least for another 5-6 weeks while I cut down about 8-10lb of fat hopefully. Plan is to be on 1.5ml test cyp a week (375mg) nothing major just to cut down. Would it be beneficial to run HCG during this period?
> 
> Might just get leaner then end up deciding to bulk knowing my indecisive mind :lol: So much conflicting information about staying on / coming off etc. Considering i'm quite a way off competing level it seems silly to stay on but I feel like it's kind of time wasted. Also the process of coming off makes feel like s**t mentally.


 If you are about fertility, sure. Otherwise, hcg does nothing besides keep the balls bigger.

That's the worst part, coming off and having low test levels can negatively affect quality of life and work productivity.

You aren't really getting any benefit out of coming off completely if you are just going to be blasting and cruising anyways. You are just risking losing mass and having a bad time while your hormones are out of wack. If you are going to be blasting/cruising, just run TRT+HCG. TRT is 100% safe and healthy. Having low testosterone is a proven killer and harbinger of disease.

A few months off everything is not going to benefit your health in any meaningful way and you are still going to shut yourself down when you blast/cruise again.


----------



## Dark Prowler

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

I have a question about IGF1.

If injecting it in its synthesised form, does it have any benefit to building muscle at all?

There's a lot of debate on this subject, across various forums. Some say it offers no more than a pump, and others swear it's helped take their physique to the next level and beyond.


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> If you are about fertility, sure. Otherwise, hcg does nothing besides keep the balls bigger.
> 
> That's the worst part, coming off and having low test levels can negatively affect quality of life and work productivity.
> 
> You aren't really getting any benefit out of coming off completely if you are just going to be blasting and cruising anyways. You are just risking losing mass and having a bad time while your hormones are out of wack. If you are going to be blasting/cruising, just run TRT+HCG. TRT is 100% safe and healthy. Having low testosterone is a proven killer and harbinger of disease.
> 
> A few months off everything is not going to benefit your health in any meaningful way and you are still going to shut yourself down when you blast/cruise again.


 Mate, your are the devil. I've come off before and gone back on within like 6 weeks due to feeling like s**t and being down. It has been a good while since my natural production has had a chance to kick back up. Do you not think it would be beneficial to give it the chance to get going again even if I was to go back on at a later date?


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> I have a question about IGF1.
> 
> If injecting it in its synthesised form, does it have any benefit to building muscle at all?
> 
> There's a lot of debate on this subject, across various forums. Some say it offers no more than a pump, and others swear it's helped take their physique to the next level and beyond.


 IGF-1 is definitely important building mass and keeping tissue healthy and functinal. However, GH has it own effects independent of it's effect on serum IGF-1 levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> Mate, your are the devil. I've come off before and gone back on within like 6 weeks due to feeling like s**t and being down. It has been a good while since my natural production has had a chance to kick back up. Do you not think it would be beneficial to give it the chance to get going again even if I was to go back on at a later date?


 What's the end game? Do eventually plan on coming off completely and never blasting or cruising again?

Benefit in regards to health or keeping the HPTA from shutting down forever? What's your main goal?


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> IGF-1 is definitely important building mass and keeping tissue healthy and functinal. However, GH has it own effects independent of it's effect on serum IGF-1 levels.


 Does this mean synthesised IGF-1 does actually do something in the body, and isn't just a waste of bacteriostatic water?

I've read so many conflicting reports on it. Some say only the endogenous IGF-1 spike produced as a result of exogenous GH administration is the IGF-1 that "works".


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> Does this mean synthesised IGF-1 does actually do something in the body, and isn't just a waste of bacteriostatic water?
> 
> I've read so many conflicting reports on it. Some say only the endogenous IGF-1 spike produced as a result of exogenous GH administration is the IGF-1 that "works".


 There isn't enough research for me to say. Honestly, GH/IGF-1 is not something most guys need.


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> There isn't enough research for me to say. Honestly, GH/IGF-1 is not something most guys need.


 Interesting. When would you say is the time to incorporate compounds like GH / IGF-1, and for what reasons?


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> Interesting. When would you say is the time to incorporate compounds like GH / IGF-1, and for what reasons?


 1. If you want to accelerate your gains, recovery, performance.

2. If your FFMI is over +26-28 and you want to break the barrier and achieve "freak" mass.

(To put into perspective, FFMI of 25 is the natural limit for most human beings without taking AAS)

3. Anti-aging purposes/HRT/Sports recovery


----------



## G-man99

When running clen, how much difference would 120mcg give you over 80mcg providing cals are in deficit?


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Sounds good, as long as you are reasonable and don't abuse your body, you can get away with a lot. Just keep an eye on things, and stay healthy otherwise(avoid recreational drug use/drinking, etc. Stay under 15% body fat, do some cardio).


 I have never touched alcohol or recreational drugs in all my life, started using steroids at 30 and cruising and Blasting 1 year and half ago.... So my candle can still burn 

Since January 2017 started doing 3x30mins cardio a week on bulking and on a cut now min 6x30mins cardio a week + my 4/5 workouts (45-60mins) a week.

I feel 100000 times better, performance on weights increased, and I can be a bit sloppy with diet without having too many issues.

I just come back from 1h walking with a friend (6-7km/h).


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> When running clen, how much difference would 120mcg give you over 80mcg providing cals are in deficit?


 Can't say for sure, but higher dose means higher TDEE/Fat loss, but also higher risk of side effects. All i can say to people is don't start at max dose until you assess tolerance the first time.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> 1. If you want to accelerate your gains, recovery, performance.
> 
> 2. If your FFMI is over +26-28 and you want to break the barrier and achieve "freak" mass.
> 
> 3. Anti-aging purposes/HRT/Sports recovery


 Just calculated my FFMI its 25.5 is that any good or is it poor lol.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I have never touched alcohol or recreational drugs in all my life, started using steroids at 30 and cruising and Blasting 1 year and half ago.... So my candle can still burn
> 
> Since January 2017 started doing 3x30mins cardio a week on bulking and on a cut now min 6x30mins cardio a week + my 4/5 workouts (45-60mins) a week.
> 
> I feel 100000 times better, performance on weights increased, and I can be a bit sloppy with diet without having too many issues.
> 
> I just come back from 1h walking with a friend (6-7km/h).


 Exactly, a bit of cardio will improve your strength training, not diminish it (as long as caloric intake/energy balance isn't affect negatively)

A stronger, more efficient heart will pump more blood/oxygen/nutrients to your muscles, that means more reps, faster recovery. Your body will also be more efficient at removing metabolic byproducts of training like lactic acid. It's a win/win situation.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Just calculated my FFMI its 25.5 is that any good or is it poor lol.


 Anything over 25, with good proportions, under 12% body fat will look fantastic to 99% of the population.

Frank zane was around 26 FFMI if i recall correctly, arnold was pushing 28-29. We know it's not just sheer mass, but ratio and proportion with conditioning/leanness that brings out the wow factor in a physique. Most aspire for Frank Zane type of physique even though Arnold dwarfed him.

Quality over quantity, but that's a matter of opinion and taste.


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> 1. If you want to accelerate your gains, recovery, performance.
> 
> 2. If your FFMI is over +26-28 and you want to break the barrier and achieve "freak" mass.
> 
> 3. Anti-aging purposes/HRT/Sports recovery


 Thanks for clarifying.

So if wanting to achieve the mass levels of what many consider to be the "classic physique" -- think Calum Von Moger, as opposed to Phil Heath -- what sort of concoctions are we looking at? Presuming training is on point, and we're eating as many In-N-Out Burger meals as possible.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

been worrying about my 2k CK level, although after researching online, a lot of people have had up to 5000 after returning to training hard.

People say to stop lifting for a few days and retest, so I'm going to do that.

Hopefully the rest will arrive Wednesday and I'll get it out same day, for results Friday.

But how long would you leave it? 3-4 days enough, or shall I make it a week? Also, it seems cardio may make it higher as well, so shall I abstain from all physical activity (swimming for example) not just lifting?

ive also got an ECG booked Sunday and dropped town to 125mg test only tonight.

Thanks mate.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Anything over 25, with good proportions, under 12% body fat will look fantastic to 99% of the population.
> 
> Frank zane was around 26 FFMI if i recall correctly, arnold was pushing 28-29. We know it's not just sheer mass, but ratio and proportion with conditioning/leanness that brings out the wow factor in a physique. Most aspire for Frank Zane type of physique even though Arnold dwarfed him.
> 
> Quality over quantity, but that's a matter of opinion and taste.


 Awesome I was expecting it to be poor lol, I have small wrists and narrow waist but this back shoulders chest and arms my legs are average.

My let down is short clavicals so im more stocky looking than broad shoulders type.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Chris Bumstead is a genetic freak who has been blasting since he was a teenager, most guys will never look like that, period.


 He has the go to physique of now imo. him & calum, but chris got them really wide clavicles, that makes him look 3D as sh1t. you say genetic freak, but if you look at him pre bodybuilding etc. he was just a scrawny lanky looking kid, with good muscle definition about him. obviously he is, but you just wouldn't of really thought then, if you introduced someone like him to peds, he'd look the way he does now. would you say he'd be exceeding 3g + the peps/slin?


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> So if wanting to achieve the mass levels of what many consider to be the "classic physique" -- think Calum Von Moger, as opposed to Phil Heath -- what sort of concoctions are we looking at? Presuming training is on point, and we're eating as many In-N-Out Burger meals as possible.


 That looks is gonna come from having the right proportions through genetics and maximized from training+being lean.

Drugs don't give the look, they just facilitate the training and muscle gains.


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> What's the end game? Do eventually plan on coming off completely and never blasting or cruising again?
> 
> Benefit in regards to health or keeping the HPTA from shutting down forever? What's your main goal?


 No I don't plan on coming off completely. I love bodybuilding too much for it now i've tasted the gains from it, although I'm still far away from competing yet. But even your average joe is taking gear nowadays, almost become a norm in the gym lol.

In regards to keeping the HPTA from shutting down forever. Goal is to build a better physique for my own vanity I suppose. I enjoy training and improving my physique, one day competing may be on the cards.

Touching on the health factor, how much interaction does steroids have with your kidneys etc? Can much damage be done to the kidneys from blasting etc.

Cheers for the info - your a huge help.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> been worrying about my 2k CK level, although after researching online, a lot of people have had up to 5000 after returning to training hard.
> 
> People say to stop lifting for a few days and retest, so I'm going to do that.
> 
> Hopefully the rest will arrive Wednesday and I'll get it out same day, for results Friday.
> 
> But how long would you leave it? 3-4 days enough, or shall I make it a week? Also, it seems cardio may make it higher as well, so shall I abstain from all physical activity (swimming for example) not just lifting?
> 
> ive also got an ECG booked Sunday and dropped town to 125mg test only tonight.
> 
> Thanks mate.


 Abstain from all activity, technically 3 days should be enough. By CK levels reach baseline. You should have your troponin levels checked, another protein marker of heart issues. CK should be normal after 3-4 days of no exercise.

Like i said, it's likely just genetics/training, but being a patient at a much higher risk then the general population for cardiac issues, it's intelligent to keep an eye on these things.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Awesome I was expecting it to be poor lol, I have small wrists and narrow waist but this back shoulders chest and arms my legs are average.
> 
> My let down is short clavicals so im more stocky looking than broad shoulders type.


 Build up your bench press, overhead press, deadlift and barbell row with perfect form and hit them with high volume isolation movements+caloric surplus. They will grow.


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> That looks is gonna come from having the right proportions through genetics and maximized from training+being lean.
> 
> Drugs don't give the look, they just facilitate the training and muscle gains.


 I'm referring to the relatively massive amounts of muscle tissue carried by these individuals, as opposed to their overall conditioning.

Someone like Von Moger is *huge* for his age. Genetics, diet and training aside, is this the kind of size that is attributed to the more "exotic" hormone combinations, or AAS alone?


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Build up your bench press, overhead press, deadlift and barbell row with perfect form and hit them with high volume isolation movements+caloric surplus. They will grow.


 I have bee for the last six months and my shoulders are immense now but there so thick I need to get my arms back up to scratch lol.

I suffer impingement but found the more I do with my shoulders the less affected I am and I allways do warm ups with light dumbbell first.


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> No I don't plan on coming off completely. I love bodybuilding too much for it now i've tasted the gains from it, although I'm still far away from competing yet. But even your average joe is taking gear nowadays, almost become a norm in the gym lol.
> 
> In regards to keeping the HPTA from shutting down forever. Goal is to build a better physique for my own vanity I suppose. I enjoy training and improving my physique, one day competing may be on the cards.
> 
> Touching on the health factor, how much interaction does steroids have with your kidneys etc? Can much damage be done to the kidneys from blasting etc.
> 
> Cheers for the info - your a huge help.


 Yeah, most guys have no business touching AAS, it's a shame. It becomes a crutch, they don't get to learn how their body works naturally first. They think steroids are adonis in a bottle.

If you are just worried about health, don't come off, switch to TRT. This is much healthier than PCT/Completely coming off. TRT has no negative health outcomes unless HCT/BP/E2/ETC are out of range, even then the benefits outweigh all the risks.

There are studies showing kidney cell damage from androgens, but this is test tube stuff. In vivo, as long as BP is kept within normal limit and toxic drugs are limited in dose and duration, you will be okay.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Abstain from all activity, technically 3 days should be enough. By CK levels reach baseline. You should have your troponin levels checked, another protein marker of heart issues. CK should be normal after 3-4 days of no exercise.
> 
> Like i said, it's likely just genetics/training, but being a patient at a much higher risk then the general population for cardiac issues, it's intelligent to keep an eye on these things.


 Thanks, super frustrating taking more time off after 7 months (even if a few days) and with two holidays coming up, but health comes first.

Ill completely obstain, take the test Thursday and send it off, and go back to lifting after for the weekend. Hopefully it'll show much reduced levels (probably slightly raised).

Then the ecg Sunday to double check.

Appreciate your help as its been worring me all day!


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> I'm referring to the relatively massive amounts of muscle tissue carried by these individuals, as opposed to their overall conditioning.
> 
> Someone like Von Moger is *huge* for his age. Genetics, diet and training aside, is this the kind of size that is attributed to the more "exotic" hormone combinations, or AAS alone?


 The mass is built with years of training, caloric surplus, and AAS. Generally, i can't tell you what they are using because everyone has their own stacks, response to different drugs and dosages.

Moger/Chris bumstead/Young guys with 20 years of gains = Starting AAS early+great genetics+good training+high doses.

These guys are blasting in their teens, androgen receptors all over the body are hyper-sensitive to androgenic stimuli, you add to that their naturally high levels of GH, great genetics, AAS and decent training. That is what you get.


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, most guys have no business touching AAS, it's a shame. It becomes a crutch, they don't get to learn how their body works naturally first. They think steroids are adonis in a bottle.
> 
> If you are just worried about health, don't come off, switch to TRT. This is much healthier than PCT/Completely coming off. TRT has no negative health outcomes unless HCT/BP/E2/ETC are out of range, even then the benefits outweigh all the risks.
> 
> There are studies showing kidney cell damage from androgens, but this is test tube stuff. In vivo, as long as BP is kept within normal limit and toxic drugs are limited in dose and duration, you will be okay.


 It does worry me slightly the fact that my HPTA hasn't fired back up naturally for well over a year, probably closer to two now. I feel better being on from a mood stand point and everything so do agree its healthier than putting all the PCT drugs in my body.

Good to know about the kidneys. I love it how your so pro-steroids lol. Gains here I come :lol:


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thanks, super frustrating taking more time off after 7 months (even if a few days) and with two holidays coming up, but health comes first.
> 
> Ill completely obstain, take the test Thursday and send it off, and go back to lifting after for the weekend. Hopefully it'll show much reduced levels (probably slightly raised).
> 
> Then the ecg Sunday to double check.
> 
> Appreciate your help as its been worring me all day!


 No problem, don't stress and keep us posted. I am sure you are fine, just gotta check for peace of mind.


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> The mass is built with years of training, caloric surplus, and AAS. Generally, i can't tell you what they are using because everyone has their own stacks, response to different drugs and dosages.


 You mentioned "freak" mass would require compounds such as GH / IGF-1, and I think you mentioned Insulin, too, in a previous post.

Would this be the kind of mass deemed as "freak" mass, or are you referring to the levels of mass seen in IFBB Pros such as Phil Heath?


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> It does worry me slightly the fact that my HPTA hasn't fired back up naturally for well over a year, probably closer to two now. I feel better being on from a mood stand point and everything so do agree its healthier than putting all the PCT drugs in my body.
> 
> Good to know about the kidneys. I love it how your so pro-steroids lol. Gains here I come :lol:


 It probably never will, and that's okay if you plan on blasting and cruising anyways. Just be smart and take care of your body.

I'm just pro-health/quality of life and being smart about the approach to AAS use.


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> You mentioned "freak" mass would require compounds such as GH / IGF-1, and I think you mentioned Insulin, too, in a previous post.
> 
> Would this be the kind of mass deemed as "freak" mass, or are you referring to the levels of mass seen in IFBB Pros such as Phil Heath?


 IFBB pros


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> IFBB pros


 OK, gotcha. So if wanting to achieve large amounts of muscle -- but not to the extent of the Phil Heaths of the world -- should we be looking at large doses of AAS, and multiple synergistic compounds? Or do lower doses and single, or fewer, compounds work just as well? Presuming diet and training are equal.


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> OK, gotcha. So if wanting to achieve large amounts of muscle -- but not to the extent of the Phil Heaths of the world -- should we be looking at large doses of AAS, and multiple synergistic compounds? Or do lower doses and single, or fewer, compounds work just as well? Presuming diet and training are equal.


 It will depend on how much you need to grow, some guys can blow up on 500 mg cycles, other guys need more, but generally, higher doses = more muscle, *IF* diet and training support it. I've said this many times, there are A LOT of guys blasting grams of tren and you wouldn't know they were on anything or go to the gym.

It's for lack of proper training and diet. Genetics will dictate how fast you will put on muscle, what it will look like, response to doses, etc.


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Bad idea to cut on a PCT. It's asking for muscle loss and misery, as hormone imbalances+caloric deficit/diet = bad time. If the deficit is small, it would mitigate the damage, but it's a better idea to just extend your blast into the cut or switch to cruise dose to cut. Then maintain after you are as lean as you want to be.
> 
> If you are cruising and blasting, why pct? Cruising and blasting is already putting your HPTA and fertility at risk.
> 
> You're better off just blasting/cruising+hcg or cycling/pct.
> 
> HCG should be used during a cycle to stimulate the leydig and sertoli cells so they don't go dormant.
> 
> As for PCT protocol. look up Michael Scally power pct, but ignore his recommendation for HCG.


 Can you clarify what you mean around hcg for Scally's power pct?

The famous PoWeR PCT that i plan to use:
Days 1-16 HCG 2500Iu EOD
Days 1-30 Clomid 100mg ED
Days 1-45 nolva 20mg ED

if you use hcg while on cycle we ignore the power pct HCG. If we don't use on cycle then we use during power pct?

What's your thoughts on excess e2 during HCG use eod? I felt .5mg of arimidex helped me and using no AI previously hindered my recovery somewhat.


----------



## JohhnyC

You have mentioned Yohimbine HCL several times now and the need to be in a fasted state

However, what timings are we taking about? 2 / 3 / 4 hours before and after sufficient?

i want to try it but the practicality seems a problem. *Could one take it at 3 am (up to use the loo? *)


----------



## Jordan08

kasabian19 said:


> It definitely does. Minoxidil usage for 6 months when I was 25 aged me massively. The only thing that has helped in a big way is tretinoin cream (it has been show in studies to reverse sun damage to skin). A year of that has helped my skin no end. Firmer, tighter, fine lines way less visible. It's dirt cheap too. Would certainly advise.


 I have seen minoxidil consist of this element. I thought it must have been in there for reducing the frequency of usage. Something like 5% minoxidil and .2%Tretinion solution.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Phytoestrogen are quite potent en vivo, i would avoid soy as a man. there are case studies of gyno development from high soy consumption.
> 
> I would not worry about additives in products like soy lecithin, etc. Just avoid straight up soy milk, protein, and legumes.


 For a woman?. Will it be a good source of protein in daily meal plans?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Aromatase inhibitor will not reverse gyno. You should get off the clomid, start real TRT and raloxifene.


 oke thx, thing is im in my start twenties so hoped to do a restart instead of going on TRT


----------



## IrregularB

@ElChapo Hello mate, so I started my T3 on Sunday morning it's now Tuesday morning. I'm using tiromel @ 50MCG and my throat seems to be getting a bit sore? Just incase this was a side I googled it and a few people complained about it on various forms. Any idea if this is a side that will persists all the way throughout T3 use? Many thanks.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Dose dependent, i have issues myself after 300 mg per week of acetate. Enanthate does not give me any trouble, may be due to higher peak levels from acetate.


 So potentially at 66mg eod (200mg) i shouldnt have no problems with gyno from ace, potentially!

Also 1 other thing, are there any symptoms of high hct to watch for. I understand bloods are best way to tell but i cant get them done until maybe next month at the earliest. The reason im asking is because lately, say over the last 2 weeks ive been quite short on breath and heart rate rises quickly from doing the least ammount of movement


----------



## Wayno

IrregularB said:


> @ElChapo Hello mate, so I started my T3 on Sunday morning it's now Tuesday morning. I'm using tiromel @ 50MCG and my throat seems to be getting a bit sore? Just incase this was a side I googled it and a few people complained about it on various forms. Any idea if this is a side that will persists all the way throughout T3 use? Many thanks.


 Can't answer direct but I was getting headaches which is a well known side as I raised the dose so I started splitting dose and problem solved

FYI same product as you.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Thanks again for all the awesome info.

I have a few few (hopefully quick fire, to save you time) questions:



How long would it take for oil to be fully absorbed/dispersed post IM injection? A few hours? A day? A week?


Does injection volume change this?


Does the ester (enan/prop/ace/decanoate/undeclylenate/etc) change this?


For instance, how long would you estimate it would take for the following to be ready to take more oil (I am choosing delt for this example, because it is a small muscle):


DELT: 0.33ml Tren Ace = ? days.

DELT: 1ml Test Enan = ? days.

DELT: 2ml Deca = ? days.

-Thank you!!


----------



## IrregularB

Wayno said:


> Can't answer direct but I was getting headaches which is a well known side as I raised the dose so I started splitting dose and problem solved
> 
> FYI same product as you.


 How did you split it mate? 25 Morning & 25 Before bed?


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

just had a phone call from the doctors saying I have to have a repate blood test in three months but I'm 2 weeks into my cycle of 500mg of test a week if I stay on my bloods will be all over the place I don't want to stop cycle tho think I could just drop to 300mg and the blood tests are for my heart because my mum had issues with hers and just wanted to check mine was good and bloods came back good first time


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> Can you clarify what you mean around hcg for Scally's power pct?
> 
> The famous PoWeR PCT that i plan to use:
> Days 1-16 HCG 2500Iu EOD
> Days 1-30 Clomid 100mg ED
> Days 1-45 nolva 20mg ED
> 
> if you use hcg while on cycle we ignore the power pct HCG. If we don't use on cycle then we use during power pct?
> 
> What's your thoughts on excess e2 during HCG use eod? I felt .5mg of arimidex helped me and using no AI previously hindered my recovery somewhat.


 Exactly, hcg works best on cycle. You can take the HCG for the first 2 weeks, but the dose is ridiculous. Go with 2,000-3,000 IU per week.

You don't have to take it EOD or at that high a dose. You don't need arimidex, nolva will block e2 from your breast tissue. You will feel like garbage-s**t regardless of AI usage with the clomid in the mix.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> I have bee for the last six months and my shoulders are immense now but there so thick I need to get my arms back up to scratch lol.
> 
> I suffer impingement but found the more I do with my shoulders the less affected I am and I allways do warm ups with light dumbbell first.


 Incorporate face pulls in to your routine to avoid impingment. One of the main causes of impingment is bad for in pressing movements and overtraining the anterior delts and not training the posterior delts enough. Face pulls help balance the shoulder girdle. I have never had impingement issues since adding face pulls into my training.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> You have mentioned Yohimbine HCL several times now and the need to be in a fasted state
> 
> However, what timings are we taking about? 2 / 3 / 4 hours before and after sufficient?
> 
> i want to try it but the practicality seems a problem. *Could one take it at 3 am (up to use the loo? *)


 If you took it at 3 AM, how would you go back to sleep? lmao

2 hours before eating, 4 hours after.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> For a woman?. Will it be a good source of protein in daily meal plans?


 I wouldn't touch it for women either, the phytoestrogens will mess with their natural hormones.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Incorporate face pulls in to your routine to avoid impingment. One of the main causes of impingment is bad for in pressing movements and overtraining the anterior delts and not training the posterior delts enough. Face pulls help balance the shoulder girdle. I have never had impingement issues since adding face pulls into my training.


 Spot on once again my friend I do lack rear delt development compared to lateral and anterior I will prioritize them more now.

Thank you.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> oke thx, thing is im in my start twenties so hoped to do a restart instead of going on TRT


 Have you ever taken AAS before and what are your baseline testosterone levels.


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> @ElChapo Hello mate, so I started my T3 on Sunday morning it's now Tuesday morning. I'm using tiromel @ 50MCG and my throat seems to be getting a bit sore? Just incase this was a side I googled it and a few people complained about it on various forms. Any idea if this is a side that will persists all the way throughout T3 use? Many thanks.


 That should not be a reaction. Most likely placebo or allergy to a filler. Exogenous thyroid will not really affect the thyroid gland itself. Sometimes it can shrink a goiter and make it smaller.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> That should not be a reaction. Most likely placebo or allergy to a filler. Exogenous thyroid will not really affect the thyroid gland itself. Sometimes it can shrink a goiter and make it smaller.


 Okay I'll ride it out and see if it's better at the end of the week, been hot here so maybe just a bit run down. 23 degrees is unheard of for Scotland unfortunately so I'll check back in at the end of the week, Many thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> So potentially at 66mg eod (200mg) i shouldnt have no problems with gyno from ace, potentially!
> 
> Also 1 other thing, are there any symptoms of high hct to watch for. I understand bloods are best way to tell but i cant get them done until maybe next month at the earliest. The reason im asking is because lately, say over the last 2 weeks ive been quite short on breath and heart rate rises quickly from doing the least ammount of movement


 I can't say, but the lower the dose, the lower the risk.

If you are on tren, these are symptoms of tren use, but can also be cause by elevated hematocrit.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> I can't say, but the lower the dose, the lower the risk.
> 
> If you are on tren, these are symptoms of tren use, but can also be cause by elevated hematocrit.


 200 is about as low as it can be for it to beneficial do you think?

No not on the tren yet as i wanted to get this shortness of breath sorted 1st. So it could be hct?

Thanks for all the help by the way, a real credit to the forum


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thanks again for all the awesome info.
> 
> I have a few few (hopefully quick fire, to save you time) questions:
> 
> 
> 
> How long would it take for oil to be fully absorbed/dispersed post IM injection? A few hours? A day? A week?
> 
> 
> Does injection volume change this?
> 
> 
> Does the ester (enan/prop/ace/decanoate/undeclylenate/etc) change this?
> 
> 
> For instance, how long would you estimate it would take for the following to be ready to take more oil (I am choosing delt for this example, because it is a small muscle):
> 
> 
> DELT: 0.33ml Tren Ace = ? days.
> 
> DELT: 1ml Test Enan = ? days.
> 
> DELT: 2ml Deca = ? days.
> 
> -Thank you!!


 1. Depends on the oil, the muscle, how active you are with it, etc

2. Yeah, less oil is absorbed faster.

3. No, typically the thinner oils are absorbed faster.

4. No clue, but i can re-inject delts after 1 ml of oil 2 days later typicaly.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> just had a phone call from the doctors saying I have to have a repate blood test in three months but I'm 2 weeks into my cycle of 500mg of test a week if I stay on my bloods will be all over the place I don't want to stop cycle tho think I could just drop to 300mg and the blood tests are for my heart because my mum had issues with hers and just wanted to check mine was good and bloods came back good first time


 What labs are they pulling exactly? You might be able to take the test.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> 200 is about as low as it can be for it to beneficial do you think?
> 
> No not on the tren yet as i wanted to get this shortness of breath sorted 1st. So it could be hct?
> 
> Thanks for all the help by the way, a real credit to the forum


 200 mg is a decent dose of acetate, 300 mg for enanthate. That's the minimum effective dose and will still be effective while minimizing sides.

Could be HCT/Hemoglobin, have you checked your blood pressure? What's your resting heart rate?


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

1g Test E vs 500mg Test E & 500mg DECA every week.

Putting side effect and water/glycogen gain to one side - which of the 2 are more likely to build more lean muscle?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1g Test E vs 500mg Test E & 500mg DECA every week.
> 
> Putting side effect and water/glycogen gain to one side - which of the 2 are more likely to build more lean muscle?


 Test/Deca


----------



## ReRaise

@elchapo

Regarding HCG use on cycle vs before PCT....

I've been blasting and cruising for a while now, using hcg only sporadically by blasting 5000iu over 10 days every few months.

I have at least 7 weeks on cycle left due to competing, and it's a a while now since I used HCG and balls have definitely shrunk down. Me and the mrs are wanting to try for a baby, understanding that we'll have more chance of this once the competing is out the way and I have a clear out...... but for now, what is the best thing to do with HCG? Unsure whether to blast with a high dose over a few days or to just begin a standard 500iu twice a week, would that be sufficient to wake the boys up?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @elchapo
> 
> Regarding HCG use on cycle vs before PCT....
> 
> I've been blasting and cruising for a while now, using hcg only sporadically by blasting 5000iu over 10 days every few months.
> 
> I have at least 7 weeks on cycle left due to competing, and it's a a while now since I used HCG and balls have definitely shrunk down. Me and the mrs are wanting to try for a baby, understanding that we'll have more chance of this once the competing is out the way and I have a clear out...... but for now, what is the best thing to do with HCG? Unsure whether to blast with a high dose over a few days or to just begin a standard 500iu twice a week, would that be sufficient to wake the boys up?


 Run it 1,000 iu x 2 a week starting immediately, run it until she gets pregnant. Testicular size is correlated with fertility, so look for an increase in size to let you know if you are getting somewhere.

Watch out for water retention, some guys get this on hcg.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> What labs are they pulling exactly? You might be able to take the test.


 Just to check my heart so a regular blood test I should imagine my mum had a leaky heart valve and she's been diagnosed with heart disease but my bloods came back fine so this is just a follow up


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Just to check my heart so a regular blood test I should imagine my mum had a leaky heart valve and she's been diagnosed with heart disease but my bloods came back fine so this is just a follow up


 What are the lab values are they checking exactly?


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> What are the lab values are they checking exactly?


 I honestly have no idea mate just said they would do blood tests which they did rang up for results and they said they was happy with it would 300mg of test do much for me gains wise


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> Run it 1,000 iu x 2 a week starting immediately, run it until she gets pregnant. Testicular size is correlated with fertility, so look for an increase in size to let you know if you are getting somewhere.
> 
> Watch out for water retention, some guys get this on hcg.


 Thanks for the advice mate, the only thing is I'm 7 weeks out from a show, so maybe hcg may be best waiting till afterwards? Or should the arimidex I'm using at 0.5mg EOD prevent water retention?


----------



## Pancake'

Given you're an advocate of low - moderate doses. I know this is going to depend a lot on someone's goals and current condition, but where should a AAS noob, head from the standard 500mg of test for 12 weeks? what do you think would be a further good 2nd and 3rd cycle. if they didn't decide to commit to B&Cing from the off. (It's a BIG commitment.)

If an individual responded really well to test only, could he not try and run the exact same cycle/dose until response/results stalled?

I was thinking

Test - 500mg - 12 weeks

repeat

Test + Oral - 12 weeks

Test + Oral + Anabolic - 16 - 20 weeks

start Test/Tren blasts

Can't thank you enough mate, really appreciate the responses. :thumbup1:


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Have you ever taken AAS before and what are your baseline testosterone levels.


 nope never!

Total t: 11,3nmol/L ranges is 10,3-27,4

SHBG 36nmol/L ranges is 10-57

DHEAS 2.1umol/L ranges us 3-12

estrogen 0,03nmol/L ranges should be <0,30

prolacting 195 ranges 40-400

This was before starting clomid monetherapy which I know have been on for 3 months 12,5mg eod.


----------



## Wayno

IrregularB said:


> How did you split it mate? 25 Morning & 25 Before bed?


 Yeh 50mcg in morning then 25 in afternoon mate


----------



## capo

@ElChapo ,when cutting is there any benefit training fasted in the morning, weights and cardio then having first meal post workout ,to say having a meal pre and post ?, I train about 1-2 hours after breakfast at the minute but wondering weather to just go when I get up after a double espresso


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> nope never!
> 
> Total t: 11,3nmol/L ranges is 10,3-27,4
> 
> SHBG 36nmol/L ranges is 10-57
> 
> DHEAS 2.1umol/L ranges us 3-12
> 
> estrogen 0,03nmol/L ranges should be <0,30
> 
> prolacting 195 ranges 40-400
> 
> This was before starting clomid monetherapy which I know have been on for 3 months 12,5mg eod.


 What is the unit of measurement for your prolactin? I can't tell if it's too high without knowing.

You won't get anywhere with clomid, i can almost guarantee it.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> I honestly have no idea mate just said they would do blood tests which they did rang up for results and they said they was happy with it would 300mg of test do much for me gains wise


 It depends how much gains you are looking for, how good your diet and training are, genetics, and prior experience with AAS? It's too broad a question.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thanks for the advice mate, the only thing is I'm 7 weeks out from a show, so maybe hcg may be best waiting till afterwards? Or should the arimidex I'm using at 0.5mg EOD prevent water retention?


 Up to you, some people get water from HCG, some don't. It depends on what your priorities are. Adex will only help with water from E2, but some people get water from HCG even with low E2.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> What is the unit of measurement for your prolactin? I can't tell if it's too high without knowing.
> 
> You won't get anywhere with clomid, i can almost guarantee it.


 it says in range is 40 - 460 x 10-3 int.enh./L


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Given you're an advocate of low - moderate doses. I know this is going to depend a lot on someone's goals and current condition, but where should a AAS noob, head from the standard 500mg of test for 12 weeks? what do you think would be a further good 2nd and 3rd cycle. if they didn't decide to commit to B&Cing from the off. (It's a BIG commitment.)
> 
> If an individual responded really well to test only, could he not try and run the exact same cycle/dose until response/results stalled?
> 
> I was thinking
> 
> Test - 500mg - 12 weeks
> 
> repeat
> 
> Test + Oral - 12 weeks
> 
> Test + Oral + Anabolic - 16 - 20 weeks
> 
> start Test/Tren blasts
> 
> Can't thank you enough mate, really appreciate the responses. :thumbup1:


 Not that i'm an advocate of low doses, but only using high doses when you need it and not when your diet and training are lacking as a crutch which is see very often.

Higher doses = more gains = more sides

Low-Moderate doses+Optimal training/nutrition > Higher doses

Yeah, he could. He should be using progressive overload training to continue seeing agains and a caloric surplus to feed the muscle. If he stops getting stronger or gaining muscle, he can increase his dose. Guys get impatient because they stop seeing RAPID gains after 12 weeks so they think they need to come off or increase their doses further. This is a marathon and not a sprint, it takes time and work to build a great physique.

I love tren to death but it's overrated. Diet and training are underrated, but everyone and their mother thinks they have it down pat already.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo ,when cutting is there any benefit training fasted in the morning, weights and cardio then having first meal post workout ,to say having a meal pre and post ?, I train about 1-2 hours after breakfast at the minute but wondering weather to just go when I get up after a double espresso


 Theoretically, training fasted will cause a higher spike in catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline) causing a greater increase in lipolysis. The benefit would be minimal though.

What matters most is sticking to your diet, and if your cutting, maintaining strength as close to 100% as possible while losing fat. If bulking, increase reps or weight as often as possible while gaining weight with as little fat as possible.

Myself, i do intermittent fasting as i'm not hungry in the morning anyways and i prefer larger meals. Intermittent fasting usually helps with diet adherence


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Theoretically, training fasted will cause a higher spike in catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline) causing a greater increase in lipolysis. The benefit would be minimal though.
> 
> What matters most is sticking to your diet, and if your cutting, maintaining strength as close to 100% as possible while losing fat. If bulking, increase reps or weight as often as possible while gaining weight with as little fat as possible.
> 
> Myself, i do intermittent fasting as i'm not hungry in the morning anyways and i prefer larger meals. Intermittent fasting usually helps with diet adherence


 Do you use IF regardless of bulking or cutting? Just interested how many kcals your bulking on and rough macro split?

How many days a week do you train when bulking and do you always do cardio for health benifits?


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo you mention nizoral for hairloss, or to thicken the hair if used a couple of times per week.

How effective is this and how long before you see a difference? Are you supposed to cut our hair if trying to thicken it? (I feel like I'm talking to a hair expert, apologies lol)


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> it says in range is 40 - 460 x 10-3 int.enh./L


 I'm assuming that's mIU/L.... which would mean it's in range.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Do you use IF regardless of bulking or cutting? Just interested how many kcals your bulking on and rough macro split?
> 
> How many days a week do you train when bulking and do you always do cardio for health benifits?


 Not for bulking, makes it harder for me to eat enough calories, especially on trenbolone. I use IF for cutting or maintenance only.

Calories i bulk on are whatever gets me .25-.5 lbs per week, and if i'm lazy, 500 calories over TDEE.

I do cardio for fun, health benefits, and it helps me stay lean. Keeps my BP and heart rate low, improves my cognitive function and mood, etc.

Typically, i would train x 3-4 per week on a bulk. x 2 per week for each muscle group, focusing on increase strength or reps as often as possible.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo you mention nizoral for hairloss, or to thicken the hair if used a couple of times per week.
> 
> How effective is this and how long before you see a difference? Are you supposed to cut our hair if trying to thicken it? (I feel like I'm talking to a hair expert, apologies lol)


 Pretty effective, but works best for prevention. Not reversal, although improvements have been seen in people after losing hair.

Just google nizoral/androgenetic alopecia studies.

You will see a maximum effect in 6 months of use. You don't have to cut your hair.


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Exactly, hcg works best on cycle. You can take the HCG for the first 2 weeks, but the dose is ridiculous. Go with 2,000-3,000 IU per week.
> 
> You don't have to take it EOD or at that high a dose. You don't need arimidex, nolva will block e2 from your breast tissue. You will feel like garbage-s**t regardless of AI usage with the clomid in the mix.


 What would you recommend for HCG on cycle, the norm is 500iu x2 or 1000iu x1 per week and when would you cease use.

I found using hcg post cycle, if i remember right, my last cycle was 2 years ago i was using 5-600mg test and 2 weeks after my 14 week cycle i used 500iu every 3d for 2 weeks and with already increased e2 levels that hcg would make my nips rather itchy. using a little bit of arimidex my recovery was pretty quick. Quicker than using hcg post cycle with no AI.


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

would you advise IF when training in the morning, ive previously done IF but i was training at 6pm and had my eating times between 12-8pm.

Now i train at 6am i was wondering whether it would still be beneficial as it means i wouldnt be eating around my training.


----------



## gazzamongo

ElChapo said:


> Myself, i do intermittent fasting as i'm not hungry in the morning anyways and i prefer larger meals. Intermittent fasting usually helps with diet adherence


 Any thoughts on adf for cutting?Ive never had success adhering to a daily deficit but if i schedule my training so i just do liss on fasted days and train on fed days i can do quite well with it ( to be clear im talking about every other day fasting so one day is minimal calories, B.p coffee at the most , next day i can eat on or above maintenance , ie have energy to train , but still be in a defecit on average


----------



## Lancashiregent

@ElChapo

The benefits of metformin really interest me.

What dosage and protocol would you suggest to maximise the benefits?

Is it best used in a bulk around carb heavy meals?

Can it be used to good effect in a cut?

Many thanks by the way for providing solid research backed info.

(Edit - I have been assessed as being insulin resistant before by a PT who was heavy into Charles Polequin theories. I carry a disportioncate amount of fat on the belly, but in other areas like calf and chin next to nothing and during a calliper test could barley get the callipers on. I was told to improve my insulin sensitivity as I have 'pre-diabetes'. I'm working on stripping the the fat and getting to 10% and wondered if metformin could help re insulin)


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo. Are scientists any closer to figuring out the evolutionary reason behind MPB? I know a lot of it remains a mystery, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> Theoretically, training fasted will cause a higher spike in catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline) causing a greater increase in lipolysis. The benefit would be minimal though.
> 
> What matters most is sticking to your diet, and if your cutting, maintaining strength as close to 100% as possible while losing fat. If bulking, increase reps or weight as often as possible while gaining weight with as little fat as possible.
> 
> Myself, i do intermittent fasting as i'm not hungry in the morning anyways and i prefer larger meals. Intermittent fasting usually helps with diet adherence


 What's a good natural fat burner if any, I have black coffee with bcaa before cardio. Yohimibine is getting harder to get,


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

7 nose bleeds in 4 days, quite heavy, nearly all upon waking.

BP is within range 130-80, went down to cruise a few days ago.

Anything to worry about? Donating blood tonight.

Feeling like perhaps I've just cut something up there and each morning in my sleepy daze I aggravate it without thinking?

Thanks mate


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

could I cruise on 300mg of test e e14 day or 150 every 10


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I'm assuming that's mIU/L.... which would mean it's in range.


 I know its in range, but im trying to do a restart which is why Im on clomid, what would you recommend to try a hpta restart since you dont like clomid?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> 200 mg is a decent dose of acetate, 300 mg for enanthate. That's the minimum effective dose and will still be effective while minimizing sides.
> 
> Could be HCT/Hemoglobin, have you checked your blood pressure? What's your resting heart rate?


 Blood pressure is 130/90. Resting heart rate is around 80-85 bpm


----------



## gymfreak2010

@ElChapo

Appetite suppression running orals :

What ever oral I run whether it be drol 50mg pd or d'bol 30mg pd or winstrol 50mg pd, Its seems within the first week my appetite is shot to f**k.

I've even tried inject versions with the same outcome. (still gotta pass the liver I know but it was worth a shot, no pun intended)

I know stress on the liver can cause this but there not huge doses by any stretch of imagination.

Any ideas?


----------



## Tricky

bornagod said:


> Blood pressure is 130/90. Resting heart rate is around 80-85 bpm


 Quite a high resting heart rate, have you thought of incorporating more cardio


----------



## bornagod

Tricky said:


> Quite a high resting heart rate, have you thought of incorporating more cardio


 I doubt its a cardio issue too be honest mate, i been cycling an average of 150 miles a week so id say i was fit ish lol


----------



## G-man99

@ElChapo regarding cutting, when you reach your desired goal after following a calorie deficit (1900 cals 200p, 180c, 40f), what do you do then in regards of maintaining that level of BF but lean bulking or at least introducing carbs again to refill glycogen stores as I'm looking flat due to T3 and clen.

Will be 10% and 190lbs 5ft 11"

Will continue with test/tren but will add in winny for 5 weeks before I go away and want to be in peak condition so to speak.


----------



## Tricky

bornagod said:


> I doubt its a cardio issue too be honest mate, i been cycling an average of 150 miles a week so id say i was fit ish lol


 Your resting heart rate says otherwise to be fair. Interested to see what elchapo says but I would expect a fit male to have a hearrate below 75


----------



## bornagod

Tricky said:


> Your resting heart rate says otherwise to be fair. Interested to see what elchapo says but I would expect a fit male to have a hearrate below 75


 Yes that heart rate is now when ive got the issue of tight chest and shortness of breath, stopped cycling 2 weeks ago when it all started, so no need to try and be a smart arsè  but yes it will be intresting to see what he has to say


----------



## peanutbutter9

@El Chapo best drugs for strength, whilst maintaining cardiovascular fitness? I'm a competitive powerlifter and usually use test+tren, but my next competition clashes with a period I need to be in good cardiovascular health and in shape, so a little reluctant to use tren. Was thinking test+deca (300mg each) with var/winstrol (8 weeks @ 50mg pd)?


----------



## Tricky

bornagod said:


> Yes that heart rate is now when ive got the issue of tight chest and shortness of breath, stopped cycling 2 weeks ago when it all started, so no need to try and be a smart arsè  but yes it will be intresting to see what he has to say


 Sorry you took my comment as a smart arse I wasn't trying to be in anyway. Must be something underlying I meant as a fit individual wouldn't have a resting heart rate so high is all I meant


----------



## bornagod

Tricky said:


> Sorry you took my comment as a smart arse I wasn't trying to be in anyway. Must be something underlying I meant as a fit individual wouldn't have a resting heart rate so high is all I meant


 Haha ignore me mate im just fùcking boiling and a bit tetchy lol


----------



## IrregularB

@ElChapo Just wondering what your take on Accutanes liver toxicity is? I'm prescribed 80MG/day by my Dermo. I think my last day is the 29th (8 Days) but i'm not sure if hes going to extend the treatment. Have my blast coming up and i was really interested in trying TBol 50MG starting then upping to 80MG. Some people say they are fine on Accu+Orals some say they aren't. Hard to find opinions from respectable people.. Would i be right in thinking even with a fair amount of Tudca this would be silly of me to run? Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> What would you recommend for HCG on cycle, the norm is 500iu x2 or 1000iu x1 per week and when would you cease use.
> 
> I found using hcg post cycle, if i remember right, my last cycle was 2 years ago i was using 5-600mg test and 2 weeks after my 14 week cycle i used 500iu every 3d for 2 weeks and with already increased e2 levels that hcg would make my nips rather itchy. using a little bit of arimidex my recovery was pretty quick. Quicker than using hcg post cycle with no AI.


 HCG should be run indefinitely through a cycle if testicular volume/fertility/recovery is a concern. 500-1,000 IU x 2 per week, if testicles still lose size, raise the dose or might be bunk HCG. Testicular size is linked to fertility and recovery.

HCG should be ran through the cycle, not afterwards. The point is to stop shutdown and shrinkage from ever occurring. HCG can increase E2.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> would you advise IF when training in the morning, ive previously done IF but i was training at 6pm and had my eating times between 12-8pm.
> 
> Now i train at 6am i was wondering whether it would still be beneficial as it means i wouldnt be eating around my training.


 I recommend 10 g bcaa before fasted training and 10 g afterwards if you aren't going to break your fast post-training. This will keep catabolism low and protein synthesis high while letting you continue your fast.


----------



## ElChapo

gazzamongo said:


> Any thoughts on adf for cutting?Ive never had success adhering to a daily deficit but if i schedule my training so i just do liss on fasted days and train on fed days i can do quite well with it ( to be clear im talking about every other day fasting so one day is minimal calories, B.p coffee at the most , next day i can eat on or above maintenance , ie have energy to train , but still be in a defecit on average


 Personally, i wouldn't do it and don't recommend it. It can negatively affect performance and mood to fast for 24 hours. I just listen to my body and naturally fast until 12 PM because that's when i feel like eating, so it works for me.

If it ADF works for you, then stick to it. Anything that helps you stick to your plan and eventually reach your goal should not be discounted.

I strongly prefer a daily deficit of -25% or even *cycling *calories. Maintenance or slight surplus on training days, -30% deficit or so on rest days. You might prefer this method to ADF even, you can give it a shot.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> The benefits of metformin really interest me.
> 
> What dosage and protocol would you suggest to maximise the benefits?
> 
> Is it best used in a bulk around carb heavy meals?
> 
> Can it be used to good effect in a cut?
> 
> Many thanks by the way for providing solid research backed info.
> 
> (Edit - I have been assessed as being insulin resistant before by a PT who was heavy into Charles Polequin theories. I carry a disportioncate amount of fat on the belly, but in other areas like calf and chin next to nothing and during a calliper test could barley get the callipers on. I was told to improve my insulin sensitivity as I have 'pre-diabetes'. I'm working on stripping the the fat and getting to 10% and wondered if metformin could help re insulin)


 Just take once daily, many benefits to muscle and body composition when having optimal insulin sensitivity. Something that people lose with age and as they get fatter. Higher insulin sensitivity means your body can use fuel more efficiently and your body can absorb carbs into the muscle more effectively. Carrying a lot of muscle is also a good way to prevent diabetes and insulin resistance as muscle acts like an storage tank for extra blood glucose in the form of glycogen.

Doing cardio and lifting weights makes your muscles more efficient at burning and storing glucose/carbs.

500 mg once daily is plenty. Bulk or cut.

I would not correlate holding ABD fat to being insulin resistant, Charles Polequin is an extreme broscientist, so take his word with a grain of salt.

If you have pre-diabetes i HIGHLY recommend metformin and keeping your bodyfat under 15% at all times. Also make sure to keep lifting weights and doing cardio year round.

I have seen many people with diabetes "cured" by losing a lot of body fat. I know two people personally who used to have very high blood sugar, and after losing 30-120 lbs of fat, they now have normal blood sugar. Carrying excess body fat decreases insulin sensitivity.


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo. Are scientists any closer to figuring out the evolutionary reason behind MPB? I know a lot of it remains a mystery, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!


 One theory is that it's meant to make the older males in a society uglier in order to make the females more interested in the newer males so that they have a chance of spreading their genes, which will be less susceptible to mutation and also give the society more chance of mixing up genes than having the same older guys spreading their DNA.

Similar theory behind the reason that we age and die, so that more of the genes can mix.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> What's a good natural fat burner if any, I have black coffee with bcaa before cardio. Yohimibine is getting harder to get,


 Coffee is only effective as long as you don't build a tolerance to it, after that, you lose a good amount of fat loss effect.

The best fat burner is a caloric deficit for 12 weeks, but seriously, you don't need fat burners.

Ephedrine+caffeine, clenbuterol, DNP, and yohimbine are the bread and butter fat burners. You should be able to find at least one of them fairly easily.

90% of your results will come from you diet and sticking to it for long enough to see results.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 7 nose bleeds in 4 days, quite heavy, nearly all upon waking.
> 
> BP is within range 130-80, went down to cruise a few days ago.
> 
> Anything to worry about? Donating blood tonight.
> 
> Feeling like perhaps I've just cut something up there and each morning in my sleepy daze I aggravate it without thinking?
> 
> Thanks mate


 I don't have enough data to give you an idea, but if you have high hematocrit, dry air/allergies, or if you take aspirin/lots of fish oil it can thin out your blood as well.

My GF gets nose bleeds fairly often, for no reason whatsoever. We call that idiopathic epistaxis, fancy term for "we have no idea why your nose is bleeding." She is in perfect health, BP is 100/60, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> could I cruise on 300mg of test e e14 day or 150 every 10


 Never go over 7 days with Enanthate or cypionate. Even that is pushing as some people metabolize testosterone very quickly, they can have 1,500 ng/dL three days in and by day 7-8 be at 300 ng/dL.

For nebido, 4-6 weeks is the max.

Do 150 mg every 3.5 days or 300 mg every 7 days. Test your 7 day trough, you want that between 700-1,500 ng/dL with all other labs in range, normal BP, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> I know its in range, but im trying to do a restart which is why Im on clomid, what would you recommend to try a hpta restart since you dont like clomid?


 Your HPTA won't restart, it was never there to begin with. Your levels are only going to continue to drop with age. You are wasting your time with clomid and "restarting"

Get on TRT. You can try HCG monotherapy first. Most likely you will need testosterone gel or injections.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo ive just given blood at the local doners my HTC was 54 before will it be lowered enough to put me in range now.

And will I be good to start my blast proper now.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Blood pressure is 130/90. Resting heart rate is around 80-85 bpm


 Your Diastolic is pretty high. BPM is alright.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Appetite suppression running orals :
> 
> What ever oral I run whether it be drol 50mg pd or d'bol 30mg pd or winstrol 50mg pd, Its seems within the first week my appetite is shot to f**k.
> 
> I've even tried inject versions with the same outcome. (still gotta pass the liver I know but it was worth a shot, no pun intended)
> 
> I know stress on the liver can cause this but there not huge doses by any stretch of imagination.
> 
> Any ideas?


 Personal response, some guys get huge appetite increase on trenbolone, others get a massive drop. You seem to be sensitive in that regard.

You don't need orals, but i would just suck it up and eat the food.

If you aren't running TUDCA yet, try and see as that may fix your issue. You might be sensitive to 17-alkylated anabolic steroid induced cholestasis, which TUDCA will help prevent.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> @ElChapo regarding cutting, when you reach your desired goal after following a calorie deficit (1900 cals 200p, 180c, 40f), what do you do then in regards of maintaining that level of BF but lean bulking or at least introducing carbs again to refill glycogen stores as I'm looking flat due to T3 and clen.
> 
> Will be 10% and 190lbs 5ft 11"
> 
> Will continue with test/tren but will add in winny for 5 weeks before I go away and want to be in peak condition so to speak.


 Reverse diet by adding 150 calories to your daily intake every 7 days until you reach your new maintenance. I recommended adding these calories back in as carbs as this will have the best effect in restoring your metabolism/leptin levels.

You may find that you continue to lose fat while you reverse diet as you will be holding water in place of fat from the cortisol. We call this a "woosh" and it's when you drop a ton of water over a few days and wake up looking leaner.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Yes that heart rate is now when ive got the issue of tight chest and shortness of breath, stopped cycling 2 weeks ago when it all started, so no need to try and be a smart arsè  but yes it will be intresting to see what he has to say


 What are you running at the moment?


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> Coffee is only effective as long as you don't build a tolerance to it, after that, you lose a good amount of fat loss effect.
> 
> The best fat burner is a caloric deficit for 12 weeks, but seriously, you don't need fat burners.
> 
> Ephedrine+caffeine, clenbuterol, DNP, and yohimbine are the bread and butter fat burners. You should be able to find at least one of them fairly easily.
> 
> 90% of your results will come from you diet and sticking to it for long enough to see results.


 Diet and cardio is all I'm doing at moment. Will stick to it for 8wks yet then evaluate. Thanks bro


----------



## ElChapo

peanutbutter9 said:


> @El Chapo best drugs for strength, whilst maintaining cardiovascular fitness? I'm a competitive powerlifter and usually use test+tren, but my next competition clashes with a period I need to be in good cardiovascular health and in shape, so a little reluctant to use tren. Was thinking test+deca (300mg each) with var/winstrol (8 weeks @ 50mg pd)?


 Winstrol, no question. Keep test at 300 mg, after that, you will get more water/lower cardio.

Use moderate test/high winstrol. 300 mg pw/50-100 mg daily.

You can keep tren at 200 mg ace pw, but i can't guarantee it won't affect your cardio. Just an observation i've made, anything over 300 mg acetate starts to affect my conditioning. This is my personal response though.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> I don't have enough data to give you an idea, but if you have high hematocrit, dry air/allergies, or if you take aspirin/lots of fish oil it can thin out your blood as well.
> 
> My GF gets nose bleeds fairly often, for no reason whatsoever. We call that idiopathic epistaxis, fancy term for "we have no idea why your nose is bleeding." She is in perfect health, BP is 100/60, etc.


 Yeah mate baby aspirin a day and 10g of fish oil.

HCT is reaching 50 (top end) so I'm donating blood tonight


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> What are you running at the moment?


 Just 200mg test e per week. Would reducing it to say something like 70-100mg pw help


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> @ElChapo Just wondering what your take on Accutanes liver toxicity is? I'm prescribed 80MG/day by my Dermo. I think my last day is the 29th (8 Days) but i'm not sure if hes going to extend the treatment. Have my blast coming up and i was really interested in trying TBol 50MG starting then upping to 80MG. Some people say they are fine on Accu+Orals some say they aren't. Hard to find opinions from respectable people.. Would i be right in thinking even with a fair amount of Tudca this would be silly of me to run? Thanks.


 It's not that liver toxic, but running it with 17-alkylated AAS i would worry about hepatotoxicity. Otherwise, it's overstated. Accutane is some toxic s**t for your other body systems though, it really f**k with some people's heads, so i always recommend trying everything first (zinc supplementation, regular tanning, topical nizoral) before putting this stuff into your body. Otherwise, keep the dose as low as possible and cycle it out if you can to give your body a break.

With TUDCA/reasonable accutane and AAS dose, you will be fine, especially if you limit your time on the combo.


----------



## invisiblekid

ElChapo said:


> HCG should be run indefinitely through a cycle if testicular volume/fertility/recovery is a concern. 500-1,000 IU x 2 per week, if testicles still lose size, raise the dose or might be bunk HCG. Testicular size is linked to fertility and recovery.
> 
> HCG should be ran through the cycle, not afterwards. The point is to stop shutdown and shrinkage from ever occurring. HCG can increase E2.


 I'm 10 months in to blast/cruise and didn't use HGC at all. Is it worth adding it in now, or is it pointless and too late? I'm almost certainly coming off for a prolonged period in September.

Many Thanks dude!


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Yeah mate baby aspirin a day and 10g of fish oil.
> 
> HCT is reaching 50 (top end) so I'm donating blood tonight


 There's your reason.

Aspirin+Fish oil = Highly increased chance of bleeding, usually manifesting as epistaxis or bleeding gums.

10 grams of fish oil is overkill. Even *Lovaza*, pharma grade fish oil, is prescribed at 4 grams daily. This is USP grade fish oil too.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> There's your reason.
> 
> Aspirin+Fish oil = Highly increased chance of bleeding, usually manifesting as epistaxis or bleeding gums.
> 
> 10 grams of fish oil is overkill. Even Lovaza, pharma grade fish oil, is prescribed at 4 grams daily. This USP grade fish oil too.


 Aiming for 5-6g of epa/dha combined, how much would you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo ive just given blood at the local doners my HTC was 54 before will it be lowered enough to put me in range now.
> 
> And will I be good to start my blast proper now.


 1 liter usually gets you a -3% decrease in HCT. If you're lucky, you might get to around 50%. Now if you blast, that will likely come right back up. Definitely get mid cycle bloodwork and see where your HCT is in 6-8 weeks after you start. You might be sensitive to the hematopoietic effects of androgens.

I know guys taking 150 mg test E per week who have issues controlling their HCT.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> It's not that liver toxic, but running it with 17-alkylated AAS i would worry about hepatotoxicity. Otherwise, it's overstated. Accutane is some toxic s**t for your other body systems though, it really f**k with some people's heads, so i always recommend trying everything first (zinc supplementation, regular tanning, topical nizoral) before putting this stuff into your body. Otherwise, keep the dose as low as possible and cycle it out if you can to give your body a break.
> 
> With TUDCA/reasonable accutane and AAS dose, you will be fine, especially if you limit your time on the combo.


 Tried it all, suffered for 4 years with some pretty bad chest acne and folliculitis. Was on 800mg of lymecycline for nearly 15 months. Accutane has done wonders for my skin. Hopefully I'm finished on it soon. My bloods came back fine on 60mg of accu while on 350prop, 500 tren and 400 mast. However I think I'll give myself a break and just run some test npp for this blast. Cheers


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Never go over 7 days with Enanthate or cypionate. Even that is pushing as some people metabolize testosterone very quickly,* they can have 1,500 ng/dL three days in and by day 7-8 be at 300 ng/dL*.


 Interesting! didn't know it could vary that much, ok 2 x week for me from now on, same with tren E?


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Just 200mg test e per week. Would reducing it to say something like 70-100mg pw help


 What's your total/free test, E2 and HCT? I would need to see your labs. Definitely add the cardio back in for starters. That diastolic will fry your kidneys eventually.


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> I'm 10 months in to blast/cruise and didn't use HGC at all. Is it worth adding it in now, or is it pointless and too late? I'm almost certainly coming off for a prolonged period in September.


 Not pointless at all, run it asap.


----------



## invisiblekid

ElChapo said:


> Not pointless at all, run it asap.


 Ok. On it. Thanks dude.

Would the dose you recommended earlier be suitable or do I need to run a higher dose to compensate?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Aiming for 5-6g of epa/dha combined, how much would you recommend?


 1-3 grams daily is more than enough.

Eating oily fish x 2-3 per week is enough to reap the benefits of fish oil. 1-3 grams daily of high quality fish oil will do the job. Taking that much is only going to excessively thin out your blood ( this means higher risk of hemorrhagic stroke) more is *NOT *better. Excessively thick and thin blood will increase your risk of heart attack or stroke.

You also want to maintain a natural/optimal balance of omega 3mega 6, taking in excessive omega 3 will displace omega 6 excessively.


----------



## ElChapo

IrregularB said:


> Tried it all, suffered for 4 years with some pretty bad chest acne and folliculitis. Was on 800mg of lymecycline for nearly 15 months. Accutane has done wonders for my skin. Hopefully I'm finished on it soon. My bloods came back fine on 60mg of accu while on 350prop, 500 tren and 400 mast. However I think I'll give myself a break and just run some test npp for this blast. Cheers


 Don't touch masteron or strong androgens like tren if you can help it. Keep deca/npp as staple of your cycles, it will help. Run the accutane at as small a dose as you can and take long breaks if possible.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Interesting! didn't know it could vary that much, ok 2 x week for me from now on, same with tren E?


 Yeah, that's why there is no cookie cutter dose/approach to TRT. Everyone will metabolize drugs and hormones differently. The NHS every 10 weeks nebido protocol is as you guys would say, "bollocks".

Yes, you can try x 1 per week as well.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> 1 liter usually gets you a -3% decrease in HCT. If you're lucky, you might get to around 50%. Now if you blast, that will likely come right back up. Definitely get mid cycle bloodwork and see where your HCT is in 6-8 weeks after you start. You might be sensitive to the hematopoietic effects of androgens.
> 
> I know guys taking 150 mg test E per week who have issues controlling their HCT.


 Ive been cycle cruising for almost 4 years without a break ( or bloods ) and ive ran high doses of test and deca ( 1250mg/1200mg ) and tren a few times.

Ive used winstrol and d-bol and superdrol orals my lipids were fine my cholesterol was 3.8 it was only HTC RBCC Hemo that were high.

CK was 400 but I think its going to be high due to training.


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> Ok. On it. Thanks dude.
> 
> Would the dose you recommended earlier be suitable or do I need to run a higher dose to compensate?


 No, just run it at 1,000 iu x 2 per week. Testicles increasing in size is a good sign of recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Ive been cycle cruising for almost 4 years without a break ( or bloods ) and ive ran high doses of test and deca ( 1250mg/1200mg ) and tren a few times.
> 
> Ive used winstrol and d-bol and superdrol orals my lipids were fine my cholesterol was 3.8 it was only HTC RBCC Hemo that were high.
> 
> CK was 400 but I think its going to be high due to training.


 Yeah, what are your cruise doses and time?

You might be fine then if it took you that long with those high doses to get HCT to that level. Just keep an eye on it.

400 CK is fine for someone training


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, what are your cruise doses and time?
> 
> You might be fine then if it took you that long with those high doses to get HCT to that level. Just keep an eye on it.
> 
> 400 CK is fine for someone training


 Ive tried various cruise doses and I feel and function better on 250mg a week test e.

Im guilty of having my cruise cut short most times at around 8 weeks when id prefer 12.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Ive tried various cruise doses and I feel and function better on 250mg a week test e.
> 
> Im guilty of having my cruise cut short most times at around 8 weeks when id prefer 12.


 That's reasonable, i think if you donate blood as often as you can and keep an eye on HCT, you will be fine even with what you are doing now.

Most guys never run into heart/organ issues even with high doses/long cycles, but you never if you will be THAT guy with the heart attack, stroke, liver failure/tumour, or kidney issues. I think you're in a pretty good place right now.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> 1-3 grams daily is more than enough.
> 
> Eating oily fish x 2-3 per week is enough to reap the benefits of fish oil. 1-3 grams daily of high quality fish oil will do the job. Taking that much is only going to excessively thin out your blood ( this means higher risk of hemorrhagic stroke) more is *NOT *better. Excessively thick and thin blood will increase your risk of heart attack or stroke.
> 
> You also want to maintain a natural/optimal balance of omega 3mega 6, taking in excessive omega 3 will displace omega 6 excessively.


 I eat no seafood or oily fish whatsoever btw.

Ill drop it down to 5g. Ta


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> That's reasonable, i think if you donate blood as often as you can and keep an eye on HCT, you will be fine even with what you are doing now.
> 
> Most guys never run into heart/organ issues even with high doses/long cycles, but you never if you will be THAT guy with the heart attack, stroke, liver failure/tumour, or kidney issues. I think you're in a pretty good place right now.


 Thank you for that I feel much better now I will definitely be taking more blood tests and donating from now on.


----------



## IrregularB

ElChapo said:


> Don't touch masteron or strong androgens like tren if you can help it. Keep deca/npp as staple of your cycles, it will help. Run the accutane at as small a dose as you can and take long breaks if possible.


 Yeah, I have no new formation of acne apart from a single spot once a month at most. I'm hoping the accutane has done what's needed. Thanks for the help.


----------



## JohhnyC

IrregularB said:


> Yeah, I have no new formation of acne apart from a single spot once a month at most. I'm hoping the accutane has done what's needed. Thanks for the help.


 unless you have loads, why not try a topical lotion like Tretinoin. I used Retin-A and it was ok actually, but as usual you need to get the dermatologist to give you the stronger version as like anything on the NHS they are afraid of their own shadow and always prescribe the weakest solution available which does little


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Never go over 7 days with Enanthate or cypionate. Even that is pushing as some people metabolize testosterone very quickly, they can have 1,500 ng/dL three days in and by day 7-8 be at 300 ng/dL.
> 
> For nebido, 4-6 weeks is the max.
> 
> Do 150 mg every 3.5 days or 300 mg every 7 days. Test your 7 day trough, you want that between 700-1,500 ng/dL with all other labs in range, normal BP, etc.


 Ok lovely mate thank you


----------



## Mayzini

love the thread full of knowledge bombs.

I have ran tren cycles several times, but thinking hitting a prep style cut, and run it for around 18 weeks. do you think that is too long, was thinking of giving it a longer running 200mg-300mg a week of Tren A ( split and inected EOD) alongside 300-400mg of test Prop. with winny thrown in towards the last 6 weeks. I am also taking 3iu of HGH a day 5 days on two off. too long to you think ?


----------



## IrregularB

JohhnyC said:


> unless you have loads, why not try a topical lotion like Tretinoin. I used Retin-A and it was ok actually, but as usual you need to get the dermatologist to give you the stronger version as like anything on the NHS they are afraid of their own shadow and always prescribe the weakest solution available which does little


 I'm not self prescribing.. I'm on 80MG/Day prescribed by my Dermatologist. I'm coming to the end of my course.


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> love the thread full of knowledge bombs.
> 
> I have ran tren cycles several times, but thinking hitting a prep style cut, and run it for around 18 weeks. do you think that is too long, was thinking of giving it a longer running 200mg-300mg a week of Tren A ( split and inected EOD) alongside 300-400mg of test Prop. with winny thrown in towards the last 6 weeks. I am also taking 3iu of HGH a day 5 days on two off. too long to you think ?


 How much fat do you have to lose?


----------



## JohhnyC

IrregularB said:


> I'm not self prescribing.. I'm on 80MG/Day prescribed by my Dermatologist. I'm coming to the end of my course.


 same experience here, it worked a treat for me, but it can come back to a degree. Mine did, therefore he put me on Retin A but I had to ask him to up the concentration as it was too mild.


----------



## IrregularB

JohhnyC said:


> same experience here, it worked a treat for me, but it can come back to a degree. Mine did, therefore he put me on Retin A but I had to ask him to up the concentration as it was too mild.


 Okay ill be sure to give that a go if the chest ever flares up. Thanks buddy.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> What's your total/free test, E2 and HCT? I would need to see your labs. Definitely add the cardio back in for starters. That diastolic will fry your kidneys eventually.


 Ok thank you very much for taking the time to help. Last time i had bloods total test was at 7.9, not sure on hct. I shall get back on the stationary bike in the morning and see if i can get an appoinment with the doc to see if i can blag a blood test


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> How much fat do you have to lose?


 Wanted to think I was 15% but following this bulk I am closer to 18% I reckon


----------



## Mayzini

Mayzini said:


> Wanted to think I was 15% but following this bulk I am closer to 18% I reckon


 Sorry should have added aiming to get as close to 10 and below as possible. Not competing so no need to go ridiculously low


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Ok thank you very much for taking the time to help. Last time i had bloods total test was at 7.9, not sure on hct. I shall get back on the stationary bike in the morning and see if i can get an appoinment with the doc to see if i can blag a blood test


 7.9 nmol/L? That's horrendous. How many days after injection?


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> Sorry should have added aiming to get as close to 10 and below as possible. Not competing so no need to go ridiculously low


 What's your height/weight?


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> What's your height/weight?


 6ft 230lb


----------



## SlinMeister

1)

What'sthe minimum dose and best bang for buck of:

TestE

TrenA

MastE

W

T3

Ai

you would use to cut down and reach a very good fitness model like condition?

Noticed that the more hormones you use for a cut the worst hunger will be.

ATM I am cutting on:

400 PrimoE 350 TrenA 350 MastP ( 350 W will be added last 4 weeks when really leaner)

50mcg T3 200 Caffeine 50 Ephedrine 10mg Yohimbine HCL

Hunger is so controllable that I could fast until midday.

2) Is it really possible to "grow into a show"? Which AAS protocols and diet will be involved?


----------



## John Boy 1985

Currently on hgh 3iu 5days Mon to Fri. Also on 200mg test cruise, I am thinking of stopping hgh as can't afford no more, been onabout 4 months. I don't think I have seen major difference. Only slightly more veiny, Will there be any negative effect on stopping suddenly


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> some guys get huge appetite increase on trenbolone, others get a massive drop.


 Why do you think people react so differently to the same compound in that respect ?


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> 6ft 230lb


 15-18 weeks to get to 10% if you are 18% and you start now. Even faster if you run DNP/EC stack/etc.

Run yourself 300/300 mg Test/Tren ace/prop or enanthate, run a 20-30% deficit+fat burner.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> 15-18 weeks to get to 10% if you are 18% and you start now. Even faster if you run DNP/EC stack/etc.
> 
> Run yourself 300/300 mg Test/Tren ace/prop or enanthate, run a 20-30% deficit+fat burner.


 So what if he had his current stats and was running

ECA, DNP and t3 50mcg and dash of 3iu gh before fasted cardio, how much would that cut off? 15-18 weeks seems a hell of a long time for 10% bodyfat


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> 1)
> 
> What'sthe minimum dose and best bang for buck of:
> 
> TestE
> 
> TrenA
> 
> MastE
> 
> W
> 
> T3
> 
> Ai
> 
> you would use to cut down and reach a very good fitness model like condition?
> 
> Noticed that the more hormones you use for a cut the worst hunger will be.
> 
> ATM I am cutting on:
> 
> 400 PrimoE 350 TrenA 350 MastP ( 350 W will be added last 4 weeks when really leaner)
> 
> 50mcg T3 200 Caffeine 50 Ephedrine 10mg Yohimbine HCL
> 
> Hunger is so controllable that I could fast until midday.
> 
> 2) Is it really possible to "grow into a show"? Which AAS protocols and diet will be involved?


 Generally, testosterone increases appetite, trenbolone decreases but it it depends on the individual.

Your question on doses is too broad, your goals, experience, level, etc will dictate doses needed.

If you are cutting, usually 300-600 mg of two compounds is more than enough.

Grow into a show? Generally no, unless you are more novice-intermediate level. If you are advanced/elite, don't expect to gain no a real deficit/prep diet.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> So what if he had his current stats and was running
> 
> ECA, DNP and t3 50mcg and dash of 3iu gh before fasted cardio, how much would that cut off? 15-18 weeks seems a hell of a long time for 10% bodyfat


 I can't say how much you will lose, i'm not a calculator lmfao

The calculation i gave him was based off him losing 1-1.5 lbs per week with only a caloric deficit, zero fat burners. Adding DNP will greatly expedite fat loss, especially with EC stack in the mix. Maybe he can shave off a good 4-6 weeks with low dose DNP, but this is a very rough guess.


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> 15-18 weeks to get to 10% if you are 18% and you start now. Even faster if you run DNP/EC stack/etc.
> 
> Run yourself 300/300 mg Test/Tren ace/prop or enanthate, run a 20-30% deficit+fat burner.


 Thanks mate that's my exact plan. Thank you for your knowledge


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> Why do you think people react so differently to the same compound in that respect ?


 Receptors, liver enzymes, SNPs that affect different hormones, neurotransmitters, etc. It is VERY complex, there are thousands of hormones and chemicals in the body working in complex interplay and everyone has different levels and action of these chems in their body.

People are very unique in how drugs will affect them, not just with AAS but also with psych meds, pain killers, etc.

For instance, MAO (monoamine oxidase) is an enzyme that breaks down adrenaline, people with lower levels of this enzyme have a stronger temper and anger response because their adrenaline levels build up very quickly. Add strong androgens like tren to the mix, and you might get issues with temper. This is only one example.

Some people produce a lot more aromatase than others and will have a harder time controlling E2 with low doses of AI, i can keep going for hours on different variations that would affect AAS response. There is a shitload of genes that i know off the top of my head.


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> Thanks mate that's my exact plan. Thank you for your knowledge


 Anytime man, you said you wanna get under 10% if possible. You will get to wherever you want to be, just need time and consistency.


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> Anytime man, you said you wanna get under 10% if possible. You will get to wherever you want to be, just need time and consistency.


 Been there before many years ago (I am in my 40's now). I have t3 and clen in stockpile as well. Have never tried dnp though. Been training etc for 20 years and always interested to hear the input of someone who has a great knowledge base.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> I can't say how much you will lose, i'm not a calculator lmfao
> 
> The calculation i gave him was based off him losing 1-1.5 lbs per week with only a caloric deficit, zero fat burners. Adding DNP will greatly expedite fat loss, especially with EC stack in the mix. Maybe he can shave off a good 4-6 weeks with low dose DNP, but this is a very rough guess.


 Ye I get that lol, if you were a bodyfat calculator id have you on speedial, with dnp I see people averaging 1lbs a day/two but most of this seems like water, I've only seen a few strip off the fat and look good for it after.


----------



## JohhnyC

S123 said:


> Ye I get that lol, if you were a bodyfat calculator id have you on speedial, with dnp I see people averaging 1lbs a day/two but most of this seems like water, I've only seen a few strip off the fat and look good for it after.


 Not true at all man, I've done it and so have many. @Sparkey had too and is still losing weight

The day you come off DNP you look like an aids sufferer but a week afterwards when glycogen / water restores, you look very well.

I immediately put on about 1/4 the of the DNP weight loss back on but that was mainly through a lot of extra calories (holiday) and partly through glycogen /water restoration. However since then that is coming back off through calorie deficit and cardio and I'm close to post DNP weight again. That was 6 weeks ago

I think there is absolutely not reason not to keep the *fat* off (not same as weight) after DNP if you keep your calories in check.

Strength comes back within a week

Sure DNP it's not necessary but it really is a heck of a tool to speed up the process

I think Sibutramine, T3 are very useful additions as the hunger and lethargy for me was nearly overwhelming at times. I think elchapo mentioned Eca stack is an advisable too. (Apologies if I miss quoted you, I can't use the search facility on this site)


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Exactly, hcg works best on cycle. You can take the HCG for the first 2 weeks, but the dose is ridiculous. Go with 2,000-3,000 IU per week.
> 
> You don't have to take it EOD or at that high a dose. You don't need arimidex, nolva will block e2 from your breast tissue. You will feel like garbage-s**t regardless of AI usage with the clomid in the mix.


 What about following a minimal drug approach and using HCG only instead of clomid/nolva?


----------



## cell-tech

Ive been blasting and cruising for 4 years now, never taken hcg before and was wondering if its worth starting 1000iu or so every week now while staying on, so if i do choose to come off completely will it help with recovery and fertility? Or is it even worth starting hcg now after not using it for so long. Im 24 years old and fertility is a concern of mine.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Personal response, some guys get huge appetite increase on trenbolone, others get a massive drop. You seem to be sensitive in that regard.
> 
> You don't need orals, but i would just suck it up and eat the food.
> 
> If you aren't running TUDCA yet, try and see as that may fix your issue. You might be sensitive to 17-alkylated anabolic steroid induced cholestasis, which TUDCA will help prevent.


 Yes It's definitely a personal response, I always end up dropping the drol / d'bol in the end because I struggle with calories.

My first Tren run was the same, struggled with breakfast, had to force feed & blend food in the end.

Yes I have TUDCA, I will try that.

cheers


----------



## Jordan08

@ElChapoAs you said that there is much more than just DHT in MPB. As you stated in our teens when Test is high, we don't get the hair loss even though high Test means more conversion to DHT. So, definitely there is something more to MPB. Do you think as we grow older, even though we have low test than our teens, our body try to preserve the muscle and start converting more test into DHT and eventually cause hair loss for those whose hairs gets sensitive to MPB with age. I don't know this thought just came into my mind.

Is there any golden ratio between Test and DHT that one can maintain to avoid hair loss due to DHT? Something like that.

Similarly, is there any golden ratio between T and E2 that one should pay attention to for optimal HPTA health.

@swole troll


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> 7.9 nmol/L? That's horrendous. How many days after injection?


 Yes sorry nmol/l. I know tell me about it. Thats not after any drugs. Always struggled for years with libido, feeling tired and grumpy (amongst other things also) all the time so, and after id done a run of pro hormomes and after pct i felt worse so went to docs and they done blood test and thats what my levels came back at.

Now in my teens/early twenties i was big in to my ecstasy, do you think that could be a contributing factor to why i now have low test?


----------



## Tricky

Mayzini said:


> 6ft 230lb


 I think you'll get to 10% in 12 weeks. I was able to get from 225-205lbs at 6ft in 6 weeks natty and I've now added test,t3,dnp and clen to accelerate the process and get down to 10% myself as I'm not competing either. Currently on 2200kcals, 50mcg t3, 300mg test and 250mg dnp which I plan to continue to run for 25-30 days then swap out dnp for 100mcg clen.

Good luck mate first few weeks are a breeze then it becomes a chore lol


----------



## G-man99

Tricky said:


> I think you'll get to 10% in 12 weeks. I was able to get from 225-205lbs at 6ft in 6 weeks natty and I've now added test,t3,dnp and clen to accelerate the process and get down to 10% myself as I'm not competing either. Currently on 2200kcals, 50mcg t3, 300mg test and 250mg dnp which I plan to continue to run for 25-30 days then swap out dnp for 100mcg clen.
> 
> Good luck mate first few weeks are a breeze then it becomes a chore lol


 Are you doing progress pics mate?

Be good to see what you achieve


----------



## Mayzini

Tricky said:


> I think you'll get to 10% in 12 weeks. I was able to get from 225-205lbs at 6ft in 6 weeks natty and I've now added test,t3,dnp and clen to accelerate the process and get down to 10% myself as I'm not competing either. Currently on 2200kcals, 50mcg t3, 300mg test and 250mg dnp which I plan to continue to run for 25-30 days then swap out dnp for 100mcg clen.
> 
> Good luck mate first few weeks are a breeze then it becomes a chore lol


 How you finding dnp? Have used t3 and clen previously but always avoided dnp ? Not sure whether to throw that in he mix early on or to save it for a little later. I have plenty of time (around 20 weeks) to get where I want to be.


----------



## Tricky

Mayzini said:


> How you finding dnp? Have used t3 and clen previously but always avoided dnp ? Not sure whether to throw that in he mix early on or to save it for a little later. I have plenty of time (around 20 weeks) to get where I want to be.


 I prefer dnp to clen. Dnp just some sweat and heat only other side is weight loss. I have a fair bit of experience with dnp and various brands and for me I don't go above 250mg as when I do that's when life becomes uncomfortable and constant sticky sweaty tired feeling. I take my dose at 9pm each night so sweating is done in bed where I'm still and have a fan on and the window open so when I'm wearing my shirt in work I'm ok.

Im planning to run a 25-30 day cycle at 250mg then near the end a final 10-15 day cycle. People say it's best to run above 15% and save the clen ect until your lower


----------



## Devil

Might be a weird one but heyho. Give you some thinking outside the box @ElChapo

i genuinely have a problem with night/sleep eating, esp sweet stuff.

I easily hit a nice daily deficit of 300-750 calories but then legit ruin it by eating something during one of my many frequent toilet trips.

I'm still 90% asleep and judgment is crap. It can be anything from crisp to cereal to chocolate/protein bar, and ends up wiping my deficit away!

I legit barely remember it half the time (if it weren't for wrappers/bowls etc) and can't seem to get a grip on it.

not having anything in the house isn't an option either - I don't live alone.

its becoming rather annoying haha. I guess the answer is just try harder/force myself to Ben better seeing as I'm aware of it (although not at the time)


----------



## G-man99

Mayzini said:


> How you finding dnp? Have used t3 and clen previously but always avoided dnp ? Not sure whether to throw that in he mix early on or to save it for a little later. I have plenty of time (around 20 weeks) to get where I want to be.


 DNP 250mg is a bit uncomfortable at times, especially when doing anything slightly physical but it's bearable.

I went up to 500mg and that was vile, felt so uncomfortable and there is nothing you can do about it.

The cravings you can get are unreal though and before now I've ended up eating over 3k cals on junk in one go


----------



## G-man99

Devil said:


> Might be a weird one but heyho.
> 
> i genuinely have a problem with night/sleep eating, esp sweet stuff.
> 
> I easily hit a nice daily deficit of 300-750 calories but then legit ruin it by eating something during one of my many frequent toilet trips.
> 
> I'm still 90% asleep and judgment is crap. It can be anything from crisp to cereal to chocolate/protein bar, and ends up wiping my deficit away!
> 
> I legit barely remember it half the time (if it weren't for wrappers/bowls etc) and can't seem to get a grip on it.
> 
> not having anything in the house isn't an option either - I don't live alone.
> 
> its becoming rather annoying haha. I guess the answer is just try harder/force myself to Ben better seeing as I'm aware of it (although not at the time)


 Hit a bigger deficit in the day to compensate for your night time secret eating!


----------



## Tricky

G-man99 said:


> Are you doing progress pics mate?
> 
> Be good to see what you achieve


 Well when I started I was just a skinny fat mess getting back into training my pictures are on page on of the 12 week comp in general con. Then on page 14 I've a progress picture up that was taken 2 weeks ago down 20lbs from the start and in my opinion a few lbs of muscle or denifition at least.

Since that pic I've lost my natty status and pinned 300mg of test on Monday with 50mcg t3 daily and 0.5mg adex twice a week. Dnp I'm on day 4 and nothing major to report yet. I'm 208lbs this morning down from 225. Next pics I'll update at 200. My end goal is 185lbs then lean bulk


----------



## G-man99

Tricky said:


> Well when I started I was just a skinny fat mess getting back into training my pictures are on page on of the 12 week comp in general con. Then on page 14 I've a progress picture up that was taken 2 weeks ago down 20lbs from the start and in my opinion a few lbs of muscle or denifition at least.
> 
> Since that pic I've lost my natty status and pinned 300mg of test on Monday with 50mcg t3 daily and 0.5mg adex twice a week. Dnp I'm on day 4 and nothing major to report yet. I'm 208lbs this morning down from 225. Next pics I'll update at 200. My end goal is 185lbs then lean bulk


 Good luck mate, big project.

I was the other way and always skinny, naturally 11.5st and find it hard to add mass. Got up to 16st at one point but felt to unhealthy so backed off. Like to hit around 14-15st depending if it's summer or winter


----------



## Tricky

G-man99 said:


> Good luck mate, big project.
> 
> I was the other way and always skinny, naturally 11.5st and find it hard to add mass. Got up to 16st at one point but felt to unhealthy so backed off. Like to hit around 14-15st depending if it's summer or winter


 I was 17.10stone obese drinking eating crap food so cleaned all that up and just ate half decent and trained and got to 16-16.5 then I hate to focus more on foods to get down further but if I can get the whole way down to around 13 stone then build on that I'll be happy. It's a long road but one that's worth it and motivating seeing the scales change each week


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> DNP 250mg is a bit uncomfortable at times, especially when doing anything slightly physical but it's bearable.
> 
> I went up to 500mg and that was vile, felt so uncomfortable and there is nothing you can do about it.
> 
> The cravings you can get are unreal though and before now I've ended up eating over 3k cals on junk in one go


 did you jump from 250 - 500 ?


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> HCG should be run indefinitely through a cycle if testicular volume/fertility/recovery is a concern. 500-1,000 IU x 2 per week, if testicles still lose size, raise the dose or might be bunk HCG. Testicular size is linked to fertility and recovery.
> 
> HCG should be ran through the cycle, not afterwards. The point is to stop shutdown and shrinkage from ever occurring. HCG can increase E2.


 What's the lowest dose of test you would run HCG alongside? (if that is a thing, god knows lol). Would it be fine to run while on say 1.5ml test e?


----------



## G-man99

gymfreak2010 said:


> did you jump from 250 - 500 ?


 Yeah!

Was 250mg tabs.

Not used it for a few years and never will again


----------



## mangob

Question in regards to fertility... We all know there is a risk - what indicators can you check for? 
I went to an urologist and he looked at FSH levels and said, nothing to be worried about...

Can you give me some info on this...?


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> Yeah!
> 
> Was 250mg tabs.
> 
> Not used it for a few years and never will again


 that's still quite a jump that, things were that bad then on it ?


----------



## G-man99

gymfreak2010 said:


> that's still quite a jump that, things were that bad then on it ?


 Was really drained on it to the point that breath was short, skin felt itchy and mouth was so dry.

just generally moving around was enough to induce sweating.

Did it for 3 days at the end of my run or should I say it ended my run on it.

Actually did it twice as tried it the next time I used it :axe:

In all honesty, I didn't need to use it and certainly don't now and will never do again.


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> Was really drained on it to the point that breath was short, skin felt itchy and mouth was so dry.
> 
> just generally moving around was enough to induce sweating.
> 
> Did it for 3 days at the end of my run or should I say it ended my run on it.
> 
> Actually did it twice as tried it the next time I used it :axe:
> 
> In all honesty, I didn't need to use it and certainly don't now and will never do again.


 yea I've read the sides can be pretty bad, sounds like you had it tough then mate.

live & learn I guess.

I've contemplated the idea, but if I ever were the dose would be considerably lower starting dose than 250.


----------



## G-man99

gymfreak2010 said:


> yea I've read the sides can be pretty bad, sounds like you had it tough then mate.
> 
> live & learn I guess.
> 
> I've contemplated the idea, but if I ever were the dose would be considerably lower starting dose than 250.


 A lot of tabs come as 200mg nowadays and that is enough and run it longer


----------



## gymfreak2010

G-man99 said:


> A lot of tabs come as 200mg nowadays and that is enough and run it longer


 ye for sure,

that guy from enhanced athlete claims he runs 1000mg , that's just madness !!


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Any advice for using 250mg at 35 degrees?

I am thinking to boost my cut process maybe just by using 250mg ed for 2weeks


----------



## Tricky

gymfreak2010 said:


> yea I've read the sides can be pretty bad, sounds like you had it tough then mate.
> 
> live & learn I guess.
> 
> I've contemplated the idea, but if I ever were the dose would be considerably lower starting dose than 250.


 I know triumph are producing legit 200mg dose dnp if your interested in dipping your toes in DNP but don't want to jump straight in at 250mg taylor made which in fact is slightly over 250mg?


----------



## gymfreak2010

Tricky said:


> I know triumph are producing legit 200mg dose dnp if your interested in dipping your toes in DNP but don't want to jump straight in at 250mg taylor made which in fact is slightly over 250mg?


 ah ok cool,

ye I did see them on TM & I've seen pics of their caps, some taller/bigger than others & some not as full as others. hmmmmm


----------



## Tricky

gymfreak2010 said:


> ah ok cool,
> 
> ye I did see them on TM & I've seen pics of their caps, some taller/bigger than others & some not as full as others. hmmmmm


 I know for fact they are not 250mg they are more as originally people claimed they were crap and under dosed. Triumph are going to launch dnp soon I've been told it will be accurate 200mg per cap


----------



## gymfreak2010

Sparkey said:


> TM are certainly not evenly dosed that's for sure!
> 
> Photos below are all from the same pack
> 
> Bottom picture, caps on the left are under filled, on the right fully filled.
> 
> View attachment 141997
> View attachment 141996
> 
> 
> The under filled ones you can see below by the 'cracked powder' inside.
> 
> View attachment 141995


 that's not good at all mate !!


----------



## Tricky

gymfreak2010 said:


> that's not good at all mate !!


 It's 250mg dnp tho in all caps just some are overdosed slightly


----------



## JohhnyC

Sparkey said:


> TM are certainly not evenly dosed that's for sure!
> 
> Photos below are all from the same pack
> 
> Bottom picture, caps on the left are under filled, on the right fully filled.
> 
> View attachment 141997
> View attachment 141996
> 
> 
> The under filled ones you can see below by the 'cracked powder' inside.
> 
> View attachment 141995


 And it's not that the cap is just not pushed down fully?


----------



## JohhnyC

Sparkey said:


> Nope, and this was the second pack I had (1st was the same).
> 
> Not complaining, both packs did the job, the under filled one's just felt the same when ingested.
> 
> Just saying as far as dosage is concerned, each cap is probably slightly different.


 Indeed, must check mine when I get home


----------



## Tricky

Sparkey said:


> Nope, and this was the second pack I had (1st was the same).
> 
> Not complaining, both packs did the job, the under filled one's just felt the same when ingested.
> 
> Just saying as far as dosage is concerned, each cap is probably slightly different.


 I concour it does the job but I'm only on day 4 but the active ingredient is there for sure I'm sweaty and night and during the workout but I find 250mg very manageable this time round


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> What about following a minimal drug approach and using HCG only instead of clomid/nolva?


 Clomiphene will increase endogenous LH/FSH which is more potent than HCG as a gonadotropin.

The best approach is HGC to prevent atrophy ON cycle or TRT and Clomid/nolvadex to restore endogenous production.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Ive been blasting and cruising for 4 years now, never taken hcg before and was wondering if its worth starting 1000iu or so every week now while staying on, so if i do choose to come off completely will it help with recovery and fertility? Or is it even worth starting hcg now after not using it for so long. Im 24 years old and fertility is a concern of mine.


 If you ever hope to come off completely don't take steroids, especially blast and cruise.

To increase your chances of recovery if you ever hope to come off or aspire to have kids, ALWAYS run HCG.

You can start now, it can reverse the atrophy, but the best way is to start from the beginning.

With all that said, i know people, including myself, who have knocked up girls on HIGH tren cycles. I was blasting tren E, no HCG it still happened.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> Yes It's definitely a personal response, I always end up dropping the drol / d'bol in the end because I struggle with calories.
> 
> My first Tren run was the same, struggled with breakfast, had to force feed & blend food in the end.
> 
> Yes I have TUDCA, I will try that.
> 
> cheers


 A nice hack for upping caloric intake is keeping boxes of your favorite sugary cereals, those are my go-to bulk foods.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @ElChapoAs you said that there is much more than just DHT in MPB. As you stated in our teens when Test is high, we don't get the hair loss even though high Test means more conversion to DHT. So, definitely there is something more to MPB. Do you think as we grow older, even though we have low test than our teens, our body try to preserve the muscle and start converting more test into DHT and eventually cause hair loss for those whose hairs gets sensitive to MPB with age. I don't know this thought just came into my mind.
> 
> Is there any golden ratio between Test and DHT that one can maintain to avoid hair loss due to DHT? Something like that.
> 
> Similarly, is there any golden ratio between T and E2 that one should pay attention to for optimal HPTA health.
> 
> @swole troll


 DHT does not enhance muscle mass in anyway.

I have no idea, it truly is a mystery at this point. All you can do is take nizoral, avoid strong androgens/high test, and use nandrolone as the base of your cycles.

E2; Keep it between 15-70 pg/mL where you feel best and are free of symptoms. Total T between 700-1,200 ng/dL.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Yes sorry nmol/l. I know tell me about it. Thats not after any drugs. Always struggled for years with libido, feeling tired and grumpy (amongst other things also) all the time so, and after id done a run of pro hormomes and after pct i felt worse so went to docs and they done blood test and thats what my levels came back at.
> 
> Now in my teens/early twenties i was big in to my ecstasy, do you think that could be a contributing factor to why i now have low test?


 No clue, but get that treated. It's horrible for you.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> A nice hack for upping caloric intake is keeping boxes of your favorite sugary cereals, those are my go-to bulk foods.


 yes, that's something I have done & always goes down well no doubt


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Might be a weird one but heyho. Give you some thinking outside the box @ElChapo
> 
> i genuinely have a problem with night/sleep eating, esp sweet stuff.
> 
> I easily hit a nice daily deficit of 300-750 calories but then legit ruin it by eating something during one of my many frequent toilet trips.
> 
> I'm still 90% asleep and judgment is crap. It can be anything from crisp to cereal to chocolate/protein bar, and ends up wiping my deficit away!
> 
> I legit barely remember it half the time (if it weren't for wrappers/bowls etc) and can't seem to get a grip on it.
> 
> not having anything in the house isn't an option either - I don't live alone.
> 
> its becoming rather annoying haha. I guess the answer is just try harder/force myself to Ben better seeing as I'm aware of it (although not at the time)


 You either have to fight your genetics or resign yourself to being less lean than you wanna be. There is no other way around it.

Genetic difference in dopamine receptors is why certain people have issues with food intake/self-control.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133846/

The other issue is your genetic leptin setpoint AKA the bodyfat percentage your body feels most comfortable at. Some guys just maintain lean physiques more easily than others due to genetic differences in leptin and leptin sensitivity/setpoints.

This is why some guys struggle to get single digit body fat, as there body naturally likes to be on the chubbier side, while others can stay lean with no cravings whatsoever, and feel sick when they eat too much/get too fat.

My GF stays between 17-20% (male equivalent of 7-10%) without counting calories or anything, her body naturally stays there and when she over eats, her food intake decreases in response.


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> What's the lowest dose of test you would run HCG alongside? (if that is a thing, god knows lol). Would it be fine to run while on say 1.5ml test e?


 Any dose of test will shut you down. If you care about fertility, run hcg on any blast/cruise/trt protocol.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> Question in regards to fertility... We all know there is a risk - what indicators can you check for?
> I went to an urologist and he looked at FSH levels and said, nothing to be worried about...
> 
> Can you give me some info on this...?


 Sperm test; motility, volume, quality, etc.

LH/FSH will show you if you are shutdown, but you can still have some sperm.

What were your FSH levels that the URO said were fine? Don't tell me it was shutdown and he said it was okay?


----------



## Mayzini

bornagod said:


> Yes sorry nmol/l. I know tell me about it. Thats not after any drugs. Always struggled for years with libido, feeling tired and grumpy (amongst other things also) all the time so, and after id done a run of pro hormomes and after pct i felt worse so went to docs and they done blood test and thats what my levels came back at.
> 
> Now in my teens/early twenties i was big in to my ecstasy, do you think that could be a contributing factor to why i now have low test?


 mate, I was 12 and I am sure mine was caused by best part of 10 years ( in my late teens and twenties) smashing 8-10 pills a night 3 or 4 nights a week along with other substances !! one of the reasons I jumped back on to AAS after giving up on all reccies.


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> Sperm test; motility, volume, quality, etc.
> 
> LH/FSH will show you if you are shutdown, but you can still have some sperm.
> 
> What were your FSH levels that the URO said were fine? Don't tell me it was shutdown and he said it was okay?


 I honestly do not remember, he said LH is lower but still in norm range and FSH was also a lower number. (within normal range) He said if FSH spikes then its time to worry.

I will get re-tested on a few weeks (running pct atm) - but if I am shutdown I screwed no? If suppressed then I can bounce back? Or am I missing a part here?


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> I honestly do not remember, he said LH is lower but still in norm range and FSH was also a lower number. (within normal range) He said if FSH spikes then its time to worry.
> 
> I will get re-tested on a few weeks - but if I am shutdown I screwed no? If suppressed then I can bounce back? Or am I missing a part here?


 Not so simple an answer as that. You can't tell if you are shutdown by just looking at FSH/LH. If your total T is at a good level and your testicles are back to normal size, those are two very good signs.


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> Not so simple an answer as that. You can't tell if you are shutdown by just looking at FSH/LH. If your total T is at a good level and your testicles are back to normal size, those are two very good signs.


 They were fine then - now they are smaller just came off running pct.

I did run HCG during cycle so they havnt lost too much in size.

Running Clomid & Nolva for pct. Should I throw a chunk of HCG in or just wait it out?


----------



## Dark sim

Sparkey said:


> TM are certainly not evenly dosed that's for sure!
> 
> Photos below are all from the same pack
> 
> Bottom picture, caps on the left are under filled, on the right fully filled.
> 
> View attachment 141997
> View attachment 141996
> 
> 
> The under filled ones you can see below by the 'cracked powder' inside.
> 
> View attachment 141995


 This is not the appropriate post for an AMA. Please post sensibly and not ruin a useful thread with silly things like this.


----------



## DLTBB

Sparkey said:


> TM are certainly not evenly dosed that's for sure!
> 
> Photos below are all from the same pack
> 
> Bottom picture, caps on the left are under filled, on the right fully filled.
> 
> View attachment 141997
> View attachment 141996
> 
> 
> The under filled ones you can see below by the 'cracked powder' inside.
> 
> View attachment 141995


 The taller capsules just haven't been closed properly, you could click them together yourself and they'd be the same size.


----------



## J12KE

@ElChapo if taking a statin (such as rosuvastatin) with the chance of myopathy happening, is myopathy possible to be detected by blood tests, or any other tests?

Also If taking AAS will cholesterol levels be controlled more-so because of the statins, or is there still a great risk of increasing cholesterol levels while on AAS regardless of if on statins or not.


----------



## G-man99

@ElChapo regarding calorie intake whilst either cutting or bulking, do you alter them for training and non training days?

Also do you keep macros the same whether training or non training days?

Thanks in advance


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> You either have to fight your genetics or resign yourself to being less lean than you wanna be. There is no other way around it.
> 
> Genetic difference in dopamine receptors is why certain people have issues with food intake/self-control.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133846/
> 
> The other issue is your genetic leptin setpoint AKA the bodyfat percentage your body feels most comfortable at. Some guys just maintain lean physiques more easily than others due to genetic differences in leptin and leptin sensitivity/setpoints.
> 
> This is why some guys struggle to get single digit body fat, as there body naturally likes to be on the chubbier side, while others can stay lean with no cravings whatsoever, and feel sick when they eat too much/get too fat.
> 
> My GF stays between 17-20% (male equivalent of 7-10%) without counting calories or anything, her body naturally stays there and when she over eats, her food intake decreases in response.


 So some people may never get to single digit bodyfat and stay there year round?? Well ain't life a ****er, where's vegmusclez


----------



## ElChapo

J12KE said:


> @ElChapo if taking a statin (such as rosuvastatin) with the chance of myopathy happening, is myopathy possible to be detected by blood tests, or any other tests?
> 
> Also If taking AAS will cholesterol levels be controlled more-so because of the statins, or is there still a great risk of increasing cholesterol levels while on AAS regardless of if on statins or not.


 It's genetic, but it will increase muscle damage from training regardless. Statins are nasty drugs.

I don't recommend statins, but lifestyle modifications to optimize lipid profile (oily fish consumption, regular intensive cardiovascular exercise, moderate red wine consumption, etc). Statins do more bad than good. Period. The research is there.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> @ElChapo regarding calorie intake whilst either cutting or bulking, do you alter them for training and non training days?
> 
> Also do you keep macros the same whether training or non training days?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 I don't but some like to alternate high carb training days with low carb rest days. I keep my fat low/carbs high/protein moderate regardless of bulk/cut/maintenance, the only thing that changes is the quantity of food.

This is my personal preference, but high carbs = higher leptin/higher glycogen stores = better performance, mood, energy, and metabolism. Muscles are always full, appetite is always in control, and gravitate towards high carb diet naturally anyways.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> So some people may never get to single digit bodyfat and stay there year round?? Well ain't life a ****er, where's vegmusclez


 No, just that some guys' bodies are going to make it harder to get to and stay at low bodyfat. With the right strategy, you can overcome this problem (keeping carbs high/doing refeeds/losing fat slowly/etc) but some guys just wanna eat, eat, eat and you can't have it both ways.

ANYONE can get to 6% bodyfat, but when leptin levels are low from long periods of cutting, cravings start to get stronger, food starts to taste better, and people give in and binge their way back to double digit body fat percentage. Some guys are more sensitive to lower leptin levels and food cravings, it just means they need more willpower.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> No, just that some guys' bodies are going to make it harder to get to and stay at low bodyfat. With the right strategy, you can overcome this problem (keeping carbs high/doing refeeds/losing fat slowly/etc) but some guys just wanna eat, eat, eat and you can't have it both ways.
> 
> ANYONE can get to 6% bodyfat, but when leptin levels are low from long periods of cutting, cravings start to get stronger, food starts to taste better, and people give in and binge their way back to double digit body fat percentage. Some guys are more sensitive to lower leptin levels and food cravings, it just means they need more willpower.


 That makes sense, your a wealth of useful info 

surely there's a limit to keeping carbs high before it cuts into fats and proteins??

take 2250 kcals at 93kg is it just a case of trying x amount of carbs and if you still have cravings up it by 25g and cut fats/protein

would you keep protein at 1g/lb or 1.2g/lb and adjust fats to keeps kcals the same?


----------



## babyarm

@ElChapo hello bud might be a silly question but can you measure hcg in a normal IM syringe? If so how so?

When using Yohimbine what's a good dose to start at?

Does clen and or t3 needs to be taken on an empty stomach?

Is there any benefit of using hcg only on blasts and not cruises.? Or does it not work like that?

Is it ok to take 2g of flaxseed oil and 3g of omega3 fish oil daily?

Does magnesium counteracts the effects of t3?

Not too sure if all these questions have been answered already


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo Thoughts on injectable methyltrienolone? Dosages, length of usage, half-life, expected effects etc...

How much less stressful on the liver would the injectable version be compared to the oral version?

Thanks again mate!


----------



## Dan TT

ElChapo said:


> It's genetic, but it will increase muscle damage from training regardless. *Statins are nasty drugs*.
> 
> I don't recommend statins, but lifestyle modifications to optimize lipid profile (oily fish consumption, regular intensive cardiovascular exercise, moderate red wine consumption, etc). Statins do more bad than good. Period. The research is there.
> 
> 1


 I'm on 10mg simvastatin every night alongside 10mg ramipril to help with a kidney problem I once had. Spoke to the doctor about this and they suggested to remain on the statins. How much effect can the statins have on muscle building etc? Researched them before and they don't sound brilliant.

Don't often eat oily fish, I do regular CV and no red wine consumption lol.


----------



## superdrol

babyarm said:


> @ElChapo hello bud might be a silly question but can you measure hcg in a normal IM syringe? If so how so?
> 
> When using Yohimbine what's a good dose to start at?
> 
> Does clen and or t3 needs to be taken on an empty stomach?
> 
> Is there any benefit of using hcg only on blasts and not cruises.? Or does it not work like that?
> 
> Is it ok to take 2g of flaxseed oil and 3g of omega3 fish oil daily?
> 
> Does magnesium counteracts the effects of t3?
> 
> Not too sure if all these questions have been answered already


 Surely you could get an insulin syringe and add 100iu (1ml I think) to a normal syringe and check its 1ml which I suspect it will be, if I'm right and your IM syringe is marked in 0.2ml for say a 2ml syringe, then you could add 2ml water to 5000iu hcg and that way one mark 0.2ml would equate to 500iu hcg

the reason people use insulin syringes is it's very thin, the increments are smaller due to a thinner barrel so you can use less water per 5000iu


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> I don't but some like to alternate high carb training days with low carb rest days. I keep my fat low/carbs high/protein moderate regardless of bulk/cut/maintenance, the only thing that changes is the quantity of food.
> 
> This is my personal preference, but high carbs = higher leptin/higher glycogen stores = better performance, mood, energy, and metabolism. Muscles are always full, appetite is always in control, and gravitate towards high carb diet naturally anyways.


 Makes things easier I guess doing things that way.

Only thing I may change then is adding in more carbs pre workout as I find it does help me have more energy and focus.

I do prefer carbs over fats as well, which is good


----------



## gazzamongo

G-man99 said:


> DNP 250mg is a bit uncomfortable at times, especially when doing anything slightly physical but it's bearable.
> 
> I went up to 500mg and that was vile, felt so uncomfortable and there is nothing you can do about it.
> 
> The cravings you can get are unreal though and before now I've ended up eating over 3k cals on junk in one go


 I hope I can put this across without sounding like a dick but on 250 I'm getting literally zero additional cravings ( wondering if habitually doing 16/8 fasting and currently adf while cutting has helped entrain any hunger responses I've got. Just mentioning it as maybe a bit of fasting might help anyone else doing dnp in future? )


----------



## Tricky

gazzamongo said:


> I hope I can put this across without sounding like a dick but on 250 I'm getting literally zero additional cravings ( wondering if habitually doing 16/8 fasting and currently adf while cutting has helped entrain any hunger responses I've got. Just mentioning it as maybe a bit of fasting might help anyone else doing dnp in future? )


 Think it's person dependent I'm on 250mg dnp and like you no additional craving just slight hunger due to going from 3500kcals to 2200kcals


----------



## J12KE

ElChapo said:


> It's genetic, but it will increase muscle damage from training regardless. Statins are nasty drugs.
> 
> I don't recommend statins, but lifestyle modifications to optimize lipid profile (oily fish consumption, regular intensive cardiovascular exercise, moderate red wine consumption, etc). Statins do more bad than good. Period. The research is there.


 Highly appreciate the reply mate.

Ohh I totally agree about statins being s**t for you mate, I have no choice tho due to having the familial hypercholesterolemia Gene, currently on atorvastatin but getting mild short term memory loss from it, so doctor is changing me to rosuvastatin in a month or so, which I am kind of leaning towards phoning up the doctor (a specialist in hypercholesterolemia) and saying that I don't want to go on rosuvastatin at all.

Im guessing there isn't much more choice of medication I can take other than sticking out the atorvastatin....

shame the doctor won't prescribe me 300mgtest a week to side track the muscle damage from statins :lol: :lol: :lol: haha!


----------



## G-man99

gazzamongo said:


> I hope I can put this across without sounding like a dick but on 250 I'm getting literally zero additional cravings ( wondering if habitually doing 16/8 fasting and currently adf while cutting has helped entrain any hunger responses I've got. Just mentioning it as maybe a bit of fasting might help anyone else doing dnp in future? )


 No that's cool mate, never done fasting before so maybe that would be a better method.

500mg was the killer though and after 3000cals in 30mins mostly simple carbs, then you can imagine the sweats


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> That makes sense, your a wealth of useful info
> 
> surely there's a limit to keeping carbs high before it cuts into fats and proteins??
> 
> take 2250 kcals at 93kg is it just a case of trying x amount of carbs and if you still have cravings up it by 25g and cut fats/protein
> 
> would you keep protein at 1g/lb or 1.2g/lb and adjust fats to keeps kcals the same?


 Fat has no real use to use from a performance standpoint. We need minimal fat for fat soluble vitamin absorption/hormone production(not important when taking AAS)

Protein will be the minimal needed for muscle retention/growth ( i.e .8 g of protein per lbs of lean body mass for bulk/ 1-1.4 g of protein per lbs of lean body mass for cut)

Extra protein can help with satiety on a cut but otherwise there is no benefit.

I don't go by total mass, but by LEAN body mass.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Fat has no real use to use from a performance standpoint. We need minimal fat for fat soluble vitamin absorption/hormone production(not important when taking AAS)
> 
> Protein will be the minimal needed for muscle retention/growth ( i.e .8 g of protein per lbs of lean body mass for bulk/ 1-1.4 g of protein per lbs of lean body mass for cut)
> 
> Extra protein can help with satiety on a cut but otherwise there is no benefit.
> 
> I don't go by total mass, but by LEAN body mass.


 Interesting that would mean I only actually need 142g protein on a bulk as my Lbm is 178


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> @ElChapo hello bud might be a silly question but can you measure hcg in a normal IM syringe? If so how so?
> 
> When using Yohimbine what's a good dose to start at?
> 
> Does clen and or t3 needs to be taken on an empty stomach?
> 
> Is there any benefit of using hcg only on blasts and not cruises.? Or does it not work like that?
> 
> Is it ok to take 2g of flaxseed oil and 3g of omega3 fish oil daily?
> 
> Does magnesium counteracts the effects of t3?
> 
> Not too sure if all these questions have been answered already


 Of course, you are in control of the concentration & volume of your HCG when you mix it. Just make it more diluted so that it can be measure in mL. For the little time that i used HCG, i measure out with a 3 cc syringe.

You can even mix your HCG with your AAS injection in the same syringe. This might increase the risk of pip due to cold liquid increasing the risk of AAS crashing out of solution, but is extremely convenient.

Clen and T3 can be taken with or without food. T4 MUST be taking 1 hour before or 4 hours after food for optimal absorption which will be decrease by roughly 30-50% if taken with food, coffee or calcium supplements.

HCG should be ran at ALL times when using AAS if you want the maximum benefit for fertility and recovery. Even 25 mg of testosterone per week will shut you down 100%, the degree of shutdown will also scale with the dose and potency of the AAS in question ie. tren and trest will shut you down much harder. There is no point in running hcg only for a blast and then dropping it for a cruise, because the cruise is still shutting you down.

You want HCG in the mix when taking ANY AAS at ANY dose, but only if you care about fertility, endogenous testosterone recovery, and atrophy.

There is no interaction between magnesium and T3. Magnesium will inhibit T4 absorption though.

No real benefit to flax seed oil. Fish oil at 1-3 grams per day is good, i prefer eating 3-16 oz wild salmon x 1-3 per week myself though, i know the omega 3's are not rancid or oxidized as they are in most supplements. It's fairly cheap, especially if you use canned salmon.


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo Thoughts on injectable methyltrienolone? Dosages, length of usage, half-life, expected effects etc...
> 
> How much less stressful on the liver would the injectable version be compared to the oral version?
> 
> Thanks again mate!


 Injectable means the first pass doesn't hammer the liver all at once. That initial first pass through the GI not only hits the liver hard and fast but rapidly inactivates a high percentage of the total dose ingested.

Injection bypasses this rapid metabolism and also slows down the release, so your liver has more chance to process and bio availability is enhanced as well. Many will tell you that 150 mg injectable winstrol is equivalent to roughly 300 mg oral on a weekly mg per mg basis. A lot of orals are wasted on the first pass as it doesn't all survive that initial first pass.

Mtren is a great energy/CNS/strength drug as having decent drying/recomp effects. I've tried it at 1 mg EOD injectable myself on a cut, gave me a sharp boost in training intensity when i was losing energy and focus during the cut. I only ran it for 2 weeks as i started getting agitation and high BP, but overall, it's a nice compound.


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> Of course, you are in control of the concentration & volume of your HCG when you mix it. Just make it more diluted so that it can be measure in mL. For the little time that i used HCG, i measure out with a 3 cc syringe.
> 
> You can even mix your HCG with your AAS injection in the same syringe. This might increase the risk of pip due to cold liquid increasing the risk of AAS crashing out of solution, but is extremely convenient.
> 
> Clen and T3 can be taken with or without food. T4 MUST be taking 1 hour before or 4 hours after food for optimal absorption which will be decrease by roughly 30-50% if taken with food, coffee or calcium supplements.
> 
> HCG should be ran at ALL times when using AAS if you want the maximum benefit for fertility and recovery. Even 25 mg of testosterone per week will shut you down 100%, the degree of shutdown will also scale with the dose and potency of the AAS in question ie. tren and trest will shut you down much harder. There is no point in running hcg only for a blast and then dropping it for a cruise, because the cruise is still shutting you down.
> 
> You want HCG in the mix when taking ANY AAS at ANY dose, but only if you care about fertility, endogenous testosterone recovery, and atrophy.
> 
> There is no interaction between magnesium and T3. Magnesium will inhibit T4 absorption though.
> 
> No real benefit to flax seed oil. Fish oil at 1-3 grams per day is good, i prefer eating 3-16 oz wild salmon x 1-3 per week myself though, i know the omega 3's are not rancid or oxidized as they are in most supplements. It's fairly cheap, especially if you use canned salmon.


 Great stuff thanks :thumbup1:


----------



## ElChapo

Dan TT said:


> I'm on 10mg simvastatin every night alongside 10mg ramipril to help with a kidney problem I once had. Spoke to the doctor about this and they suggested to remain on the statins. How much effect can the statins have on muscle building etc? Researched them before and they don't sound brilliant.
> 
> Don't often eat oily fish, I do regular CV and no red wine consumption lol.


 They are nasty s**t, most docs are behind on everything. They are treating your numbers, not the patient or their actual health/wellbeing/quality of life.

If you do research, you will find how toxic statins are to your body. I'm not talking quack articles online, but peer-reviewed research linking this garbage to negative health outcomes, all to bring mess with lipids that aren't even that strongly linked to heart disease.

You can take fish oil with your meals to make up for lack of fish consumption, red wine will give HDL a nice boost.1-2 glasses a night.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Makes things easier I guess doing things that way.
> 
> Only thing I may change then is adding in more carbs pre workout as I find it does help me have more energy and focus.
> 
> I do prefer carbs over fats as well, which is good


 Exactly, keep things SIMPLE and put your heart and mind to sticking to your calories and training HARD. This is what gets results, people get to hung up on hitting exact macros, supplements, and other bullshit that barely makes 1% difference in the outcome of your routine.


----------



## ElChapo

gazzamongo said:


> I hope I can put this across without sounding like a dick but on 250 I'm getting literally zero additional cravings ( wondering if habitually doing 16/8 fasting and currently adf while cutting has helped entrain any hunger responses I've got. Just mentioning it as maybe a bit of fasting might help anyone else doing dnp in future? )


 Intermittent fasting has given me amazing appetite control, almost as if you train your body to handle hunger and cravings better and like your body becomes more sensitive to leptin.

I recommend 250 mg DNP daily for the simple fact that this will minimize sides like appetite/cravings and lethargy while still greatly enhancing fat loss, we are all different and some guys will handle more than better than others.


----------



## ElChapo

J12KE said:


> Highly appreciate the reply mate.
> 
> Ohh I totally agree about statins being s**t for you mate, I have no choice tho due to having the familial hypercholesterolemia Gene, currently on atorvastatin but getting mild short term memory loss from it, so doctor is changing me to rosuvastatin in a month or so, which I am kind of leaning towards phoning up the doctor (a specialist in hypercholesterolemia) and saying that I don't want to go on rosuvastatin at all.
> 
> Im guessing there isn't much more choice of medication I can take other than sticking out the atorvastatin....
> 
> shame the doctor won't prescribe me 300mgtest a week to side track the muscle damage from statins :lol: :lol: :lol: haha!


 Like i said, this s**t will kill your brain and muscles, all to bring down a lab number that may not have that big of an effect on your overall health and mortality risk.

What is your baseline HDL level?

I just wouldn't take any statins knowing what i know. We have no statins decades ago and people were not dropping dead from heart disease as often as they are now. People lived a more active lifestyle, working the field, spending time outside, eating whole foods ie eggs, steak, butter, etc. Now we have all this "medicine" and people are sicker than ever. Just give that a though. This is coming from a guy in the medical industry.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Interesting that would mean I only actually need 142g protein on a bulk as my Lbm is 178


 Yep


----------



## J12KE

ElChapo said:


> Like i said, this s**t will kill your brain and muscles, all to bring down a lab number that may not have that big of an effect on your overall health and mortality risk.
> 
> What is your baseline HDL level?
> 
> I just wouldn't take any statins knowing what i know. We have no statins decades ago and people were not dropping dead from heart disease as often as they are now. People lived a more active lifestyle, working the field, spending time outside, eating whole foods ie eggs, steak, butter, etc. Now we have all this "medicine" and people are sicker than ever. Just give that a though. This is coming from a guy in the medical industry.


 Total cholesterol before statins was 7.9Mmol/L. I believe.

now down to 5.2 on the atorvastatin @20mg a day.

with 3.5 being LDL

1.3 being HDL

0.5 Triglycerides

i totally understand what your saying and I agree with you, I've read and seen the articles and my uncle had stopped taking his rosuvastatin due to loosing strength (amongst many other things) . I initially told them to shove the medication up there backside lol, but got kind of pushed into atorvastatin by them making it out to be the mildest of the statins


----------



## ElChapo

J12KE said:


> Total cholesterol before statins was 7.9Mmol/L. I believe.
> 
> now down to 5.2 on the atorvastatin @20mg a day.
> 
> with 3.5 being LDL
> 
> 1.3 being HDL
> 
> 0.5 Triglycerides
> 
> i totally understand what your saying and I agree with you, I've read and seen the articles and my uncle had stopped taking his rosuvastatin due to loosing strength (amongst many other things) . I initially told them to shove the medication up there backside lol, but got kind of pushed into atorvastatin by them making it out to be the mildest of the statins


 What was your HDL prior to statin use?

I can't give you direct medical advice, but no one in my family is ever going to on this crap, they already tried with my father. Very healthy and fit man, great shape, but "high cholesterol". Put him on that, and see his health deteriorate slowly. Just something to think about, your health is in your hands.


----------



## J12KE

ElChapo said:


> What was your HDL prior to statin use?
> 
> I can't give you direct medical advice, but no one in my family is ever going to on this crap, they already tried with my father. Very healthy and fit man, great shape, but "high cholesterol". Put him on that, and see his health deteriorate slowly. Just something to think about, your health is in your hands.


 I honestly wouldn't my original HDL I know its been so long ago now and I haven't got it wrote down sadly, I usually ask when I have my check-ups if I want to know any previous results. I know the doctor said she was happy with my HDL level when we last spoke.

thanks for your help anyway, appreciate another point of view on the situation.


----------



## ElChapo

J12KE said:


> I honestly wouldn't my original HDL I know its been so long ago now and I haven't got it wrote down sadly, I usually ask when I have my check-ups if I want to know any previous results. I know the doctor said she was happy with my HDL level when we last spoke.
> 
> thanks for your help anyway, appreciate another point of view on the situation.


 Anytime brother


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Fat has no real use to use from a performance standpoint. We need minimal fat for fat soluble vitamin absorption/hormone production(not important when taking AAS)
> 
> Protein will be the minimal needed for muscle retention/growth ( i.e .8 g of protein per lbs of lean body mass for bulk/ 1-1.4 g of protein per lbs of lean body mass for cut)
> 
> Extra protein can help with satiety on a cut but otherwise there is no benefit.
> 
> I don't go by total mass, but by LEAN body mass.


 What would you consider the minimum for fats for example for a 200lb man at 20% when cutting?


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> What would you consider the minimum for fats for example for a 200lb man at 20% when cutting?


 I keep it as low as possible so i can have more carbs.

For optimal natural testosterone, 30-50 grams saturated fat. If trt/blast/cruise it's irrelevant.


----------



## Mingster

ElChapo said:


> I don't recommend statins, but lifestyle modifications to optimize lipid profile (oily fish consumption, regular intensive cardiovascular exercise, moderate red wine consumption, etc). Statins do more bad than good. Period. The research is there.


 Would you expect these modifications to effectively counter familial cholesterol? And whats your take on water soluble statins v lipid soluble statins?


----------



## ElChapo

Mingster said:


> Would you expect these modifications to effectively counter familial cholesterol? And whats your take on water soluble statins v lipid soluble statins?


 It's not high cholesterol you need to be worried about, it's systemic inflammation/oxidation that comes from poor lifestyle (being sedentary, overweight, smoking, etc). It is OXIDIZED cholesterol that builds up as plaque and leads to calcification of the arteries, not high cholesterol levels.

All statins are garbage in my opinion.


----------



## Mingster

ElChapo said:


> It's not high cholesterol you need to be worried about, it's systemic inflammation/oxidation that comes from poor lifestyle (being sedentary, overweight, smoking, etc). It is OXIDIZED cholesterol that builds up as plaque and leads to calcification of the arteries, not high cholesterol levels.
> 
> All statins are garbage in my opinion.


 So what if you live a good lifestyle - diet, exercise, a good weight/body fat %, no smoking etc etc and your cholesterol is still high/oxidized?


----------



## ElChapo

Mingster said:


> So what if you live a good lifestyle - diet, exercise, a good weight/body fat %, no smoking etc etc and your cholesterol is still high/oxidized?


 High/oxidized are too different things, even people with normal cholesterol levels can have heart disease. High cholesterol is only one risk factor, and if your HDL is high, it has a protective effect.


----------



## Mingster

ElChapo said:


> High/oxidized are too different things, even people with normal cholesterol levels can have heart disease. High cholesterol is only one risk factor, and if your HDL is high, it has a protective effect.


 My apologies, I expressed myself poorly.

Are you saying that if a person lives a healthy lifestyle, is lean, fit, doesn't smoke, eats a good diet and exercises regularly, then a double figure cholesterol reading is nothing to worry about?


----------



## ElChapo

Mingster said:


> My apologies, I expressed myself poorly.
> 
> Are you saying that if a person lives a healthy lifestyle, is lean, fit, doesn't smoke, eats a good diet and exercises regularly, then a double figure cholesterol reading is nothing to worry about?


 Exactly this, yes.


----------



## ElChapo

My father has had high cholesterol since he was 18 years old, has never touched a statin in his life. Always athletic, never over 20% body fat. Lifts and runs daily, plays soccer, etc. He's over 50 as well. His last coronary calcium scan showed ZERO calcification, the doctor was shocked, he has never seen anyone with no calcification at his age with his lipid profile. My father takes fish oil, eats salmon multiple times a week, exercises daily, drinks red wine, and takes vitamin D and vitamin K2 (lowers calcification of the arteries). His total cholesterol is very high, almost at 300 sometimes, yet he cardiovascular is as healthy and clean as can be.

@Mingster


----------



## Mingster

ElChapo said:


> My father has had high cholesterol since he was 18 years old, has never touched a statin in his life. Always athletic, never over 20% body fat. Lifts and runs daily, plays soccer, etc. He's over 50 as well. His last coronary calcium scan showed ZERO calcification, the doctor was shocked, he has never seen anyone with no calcification at his age with his lipid profile. My father takes fish oil, eats salmon multiple times a week, exercises daily, drinks red wine, and takes vitamin D and vitamin K2 (lowers calcification of the arteries). His total cholesterol is very high, almost at 300 sometimes, yet he cardiovascular is as healthy and clean as can be.
> 
> @Mingster


 Yes, I can believe it. Your answer in entirely in line with my own observations. Both my parents have double figure cholesterol and are fit and active and in their mid 80's.


----------



## Pancake'

I have stalled on weighted pull ups, can't pass 50kg for a set of 2 and I start of back performing them, so they're prioritised. any input on how to overcome this?

Is their any real sides to continuously running HCG from when you start cycling/B&Cing

I have some joint issues, particularly in my finger tips, always locking, stiffening, case of trigger finger, but I'm just a very clicky person unfortunately, is their anything you can recommend supplement wise, that you rate as a worthy aid?

I notice you train in combat sports. what do you feel are the best exercises and methods for maximising punching power. if you was to make improving punching power priority, how would you train? and do you believe it to be genetic.

Gennady Golovkin, why is it, he can punch incredibly hard for the mass of the man? is this just a case of genetics, work ethic, ped use?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

Mingster said:


> Yes, I can believe it. Your answer in entirely in line with my own observations. Both my parents have double figure cholesterol and are fit and active and in their mid 80's.


 Precisely, cholesterol has a function and there have even been positive effects linked to having higher cholesterol levels. If only physiology were as simple as controlling ONE lab value and we could eradicated a disease, but it is not.

he human body is far too complex. If one is sensible and takes care of their body with lifestyle modifications, this is usually enough to prevent most disease.

Genetics will always predispose individuals to certain pathologies, but the real killer is being sedentary, fat, smoking, abusing drugs, etc.

You put someone on statins who would otherwise be healthy other than having hyperlipidemia, and you watched them developed fatigue, brain fog, muscle weakness, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> I have stalled on weighted pull ups, can't pass 50kg for a set of 2 and I start of back performing them, so they're prioritised. any input on how to overcome this?
> 
> Is their any real sides to continuously running HCG from when you start cycling/B&Cing
> 
> I have some joint issues, particularly in my finger tips, always locking, stiffening, case of trigger finger, but I'm just a very clicky person unfortunately, is their anything you can recommend supplement wise, that you rate as a worthy aid?
> 
> I notice you train in combat sports. what do you feel are the best exercises and methods for maximising punching power. if you was to make improving punching power priority, how would you train? and do you believe it to be genetic.
> 
> Gennady Golovkin, why is it, he can punch incredibly hard for the mass of the man? is this just a case of genetics, work ethic, ped use?
> 
> Thank you


 Are you currently in a caloric surplus, if you are stalled, first you have to look at your diet, what was the last time you took a week off from training? Have you tried micro-loading your weight (adding 1-2 lbs per workout?)

No sides from HCG usually, but some people get increased E2 levels, water retention, and mood issues. It's pretty rare but you will hear that sometimes. There are LH receptors all over the body, but their function is still a mystery to us, and we know that HCG will bind and activate these receptors, albeit, weaker than LH would.

Joint clicking is genetic, but my best recommendation for healthy joints is regular exercise, optimal vitamin D levels, supplementing fish oil, pine bark extract, and curcumin.

To train punching power, focus on your technique on heavy bag or padwork. Your shoulder should lead the punch, followed by the elbow, then the fist, the body should be completely relax until right before contact with the target when you should stiffen your entire body and smash all your weight into the target. It's hard to describe but it's important to have "shoulder snap" : http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NgBAzUxaNjIJ:www.sugarboxing.com/shadow-boxing-how-to-punch/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Think of your body and arms as whip, when you swing the whip you relax completely until the last second, then you snap it hard and fast which creates a huge amount of force. Same concept behind and explosive hook or cross.

Punching power has a strong genetic component to it, fast-twitch muscle fiber and coordinating your limbs in the right order to explode your weight off your fist into the target. There is a technique behind punching with power, a whipping/snap effect that comes from relaxing your entire body, in motion and exploding at the last second. You can only train this so much, and some people just don't have punching power, most like from lack of explosiveness from slow-twitch fiber composition of the muscle.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

pinened 1.5ml of test e yesterday and 1ml of sust in the same barrel in my glute now I have a lump there and it's hot to touch didn't have any pain jabbing it tho have a little bit now anything I should be worried about mate?


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Are you currently in a caloric surplus, if you are stalled, first you have to look at your diet, what was the last time you took a week off from training? Have you tried micro-loading your weight (adding 1-2 lbs per workout?)
> 
> No sides from HCG usually, but some people get increased E2 levels, water retention, and mood issues. It's pretty rare but you will hear that sometimes. There are LH receptors all over the body, but their function is still a mystery to us, and we know that HCG will bind and activate these receptors, albeit, weaker than LH would.
> 
> Joint clicking is genetic, but my best recommendation for healthy joints is regular exercise, optimal vitamin D levels, supplementing fish oil, pine bark extract, and curcumin.
> 
> To train punching power, focus on your technique on heavy bag or padwork. Your shoulder should lead the punch, followed by the elbow, then the fist, the body should be completely relax until right before contact with the target when you should stiffen your entire body and smash all your weight into the target. It's hard to describe but it's important to have "shoulder snap" : http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NgBAzUxaNjIJ:www.sugarboxing.com/shadow-boxing-how-to-punch/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Think of your body and arms as whip, when you swing the whip you relax completely until the last second, then you snap it hard and fast which creates a huge amount of force. Same concept behind and explosive hook or cross.
> 
> Punching power has a strong genetic component to it, fast-twitch muscle fiber and coordinating your limbs in the right order to explode your weight off your fist into the target. There is a technique behind punching with power, a whipping/snap effect that comes from relaxing your entire body, in motion and exploding at the last second. You can only train this so much, and some people just don't have punching power, most like from lack of explosiveness from slow-twitch fiber composition of the muscle.


 I am in a gradual surplus, gaining around 2lbs a month. I rarely ever deload, take time off, I feel good a lot of the time. I haven't been increasing in small increments at a time, usually 10lbs.

Regarding joint clicking, I am concerned about arthiritis. I click everywhere like a mofo, but finger tips in particular actually lock/stiffen. 

I'm aware of the snapping motion you mention and greater improving technique. I was more referring to, performing explosive movements, for example would things like; Push Pressing, Pendlay Rows, Olympic weightlifting, will really explosive exercises allow one to punch harder, would you say? and if so, what exercises, styles of training would you suggest? besides further improving technique.

do you believe a stronger grip (crushing strength) and training grip strength variations, like pinching, hand extensors are of benefit to punch power? thank you


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> pinened 1.5ml of test e yesterday and 1ml of sust in the same barrel in my glute now I have a lump there and it's hot to touch didn't have any pain jabbing it tho have a little bit now anything I should be worried about mate?


 Sounds like PIP, take 400 mg ibuprofen every 6-12 hours. Should be gone in 1-2 days.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Sounds like PIP, take 400 mg ibuprofen every 6-12 hours. Should be gone in 1-2 days.


 Ok thanks mate is it common to get infections I'm cautious when it comes to jabs clean needles obviously clean the vial wash hands


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> I am in a gradual surplus, gaining around 2lbs a month. I rarely ever deload, take time off, I feel good a lot of the time. I haven't been increasing in small increments at a time, usually 10lbs.
> 
> Regarding joint clicking, I am concerned about arthiritis. I click everywhere like a mofo, but finger tips in particular actually lock/stiffen.
> 
> I'm aware of the snapping motion you mention and greater improving technique. I was more referring to, performing explosive movements, for example would things like; Push Pressing, Pendlay Rows, Olympic weightlifting, will really explosive exercises allow one to punch harder, would you say? and if so, what exercises, styles of training would you suggest? besides further improving technique.
> 
> do you believe a stronger grip (crushing strength) and training grip strength variations, like pinching, hand extensors are of benefit to punch power? thank you


 You need to go up slower, try 1-5 lbs per week. Progress is going to slow down as you become more advanced in each movement.

Usually, there is correlation between clicking and arthritis, it's just air pockets.

My punching power increased a lot from increasing weights all my main lifts, however, without knowing how to use that strength and put it in motion properly, it is useless. Generally, when you improve a fighter's strength/explosive power and he knows to throw with power, it will improve it. It is highly genetic though as previously stated.

I've seen people make up that theory that strong grip will translated to more power. Generally, no, because power comes from the entire body moving in one explosive, whip like motion. If training grip helps you keep a very tight fist as you explode into your target, i could see some small benefit.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Ok thanks mate is it common to get infections I'm cautious when it comes to jabs clean needles obviously clean the vial wash hands


 Infections are fairly rare, most people's bodies can fight off little pathogens. You should be okay, it's when you ignore a big, black and purple swelling that s**t gets bad.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Infections are fairly rare, most people's bodies can fight off little pathogens. You should be okay, it's when you ignore a big, black and purple swelling that s**t gets bad.


 Ok good to know bro thanks once agin


----------



## 0161M

What kind of results would you expect from a mast e only cycle

Would be hoping for body composition improvements, lowered fat and little to no mass gains

What dosage and length would be good to achieve this

@ElChapo


----------



## JohhnyC

@Mingster @ElChapo

That conversion on cholesterol and statins is exactly what my cardiologist tells me. I see a professor of cardiology for pre existing heart condition. He had stressed many times that high cholesterol is not necessarily a concern and is highly against statins.

In blood pressure he had suggested that this too is misunderstood and certainly was in my case!

My doctor put me on some medication of which he immediately took me off and was somewhat annoyed by that course of action. He suggested is far too commonly miss-diagnosed in the UK


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> If you ever hope to come off completely don't take steroids, especially blast and cruise.
> 
> To increase your chances of recovery if you ever hope to come off or aspire to have kids, ALWAYS run HCG.
> 
> You can start now, it can reverse the atrophy, but the best way is to start from the beginning.
> 
> With all that said, i know people, including myself, who have knocked up girls on HIGH tren cycles. I was blasting tren E, no HCG it still happened.


 Realistically i plan to stay on so for best chance fertility wise can i run hcg continually even through the cruise phase?


----------



## zak007

ElChapo said:


> Like i said, this s**t will kill your brain and muscles, all to bring down a lab number that may not have that big of an effect on your overall health and mortality risk.
> 
> What is your baseline HDL level?
> 
> *I just wouldn't take any statins knowing what i know. We have no statins decades ago and people were not dropping dead from heart disease as often as they are now.* People lived a more active lifestyle, working the field, spending time outside, eating whole foods ie eggs, steak, butter, etc. Now we have all this "medicine" and people are sicker than ever. Just give that a though. This is coming from a guy in the medical industry.


 Whats your thoughts on this and the general medicine industry.

For every one pill you take there's the possibility of 8 side effects with a low possibility of extreme side affects.

Do you stray away from general medicinal use or use as a normal "sick" individual would?

IMO i try to restrain medicinal use as much as possible and rely on natural recovery for everyday illnesses.


----------



## Jordan08

What are your thoughts on Albuterol?. As studies have suggested that albuterol doesn't help with increasing the BMR just change the source of energy. Can it be used as an aid for re composition on maintenance calories?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26239482


----------



## bornagod

Mayzini said:


> mate, I was 12 and I am sure mine was caused by best part of 10 years ( in my late teens and twenties) smashing 8-10 pills a night 3 or 4 nights a week along with other substances !! one of the reasons I jumped back on to AAS after giving up on all reccies.


 Ye same here over the friday and saturday me and the boys would smash a good 15-20 pills each over the 2 days. Quite a dull fùcking thing to do looking back now too be honest lol. Would be intresting to see if theres any other former pill heads suffering from low testosterone now in later life?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> No clue, but get that treated. It's horrible for you.


 Yes certainly am. Once i get the tight chest sorted im going to smash some test tren and winni and go back to docs to see where my levels are at then


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

I like the idea of keeping carbs high and fat low when cutting.

In terms of your protein recommendation of 1.4g/lb lbm.... would you count the protein from non-protein sources such as oats, veg, etc within this?

My LBM is 162lb and my current macros are 320p/225c/75f (2,855kcal) 6 weeks out.

That protein looks very high but looking through my food diary it averages out at 275g from actual protein sources, But if I only need 1.4 x lbm I can lower my protein to say 270g (with 225g coming from direct protein source, which is 1.4/lb lbm) and replace these calories with carbs? I definitely perform better with carbs.

Out of interest how would you set contest prep macros for someone with lean body mass of 162lb and cutting on 2,800kcal? (Training 5 days a week, 60 min cardio 5 days a week steady state, all the usual prep AAS, fat burners etc)


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

You need a youtube channel or to write a book. Seriously!

Thanks for the awesome posts I wake up to every day.


----------



## bornagod

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> You need a youtube channel or to write a book. Seriously!
> 
> Thanks for the awesome posts I wake up to every day.


 Dont give him ideas now ffs :rolleye11: , if he were to make a you tube channel then he wouldnt have any time for us here at ukm :lol:


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I like the idea of keeping carbs high and fat low when cutting.
> 
> In terms of your protein recommendation of 1.4g/lb lbm.... would you count the protein from non-protein sources such as oats, veg, etc within this?
> 
> My LBM is 162lb and my current macros are 320p/225c/75f (2,855kcal) 6 weeks out.
> 
> That protein looks very high but looking through my food diary it averages out at 275g from actual protein sources, But if I only need 1.4 x lbm I can lower my protein to say 270g (with 225g coming from direct protein source, which is 1.4/lb lbm) and replace these calories with carbs? I definitely perform better with carbs.
> 
> Out of interest how would you set contest prep macros for someone with lean body mass of 162lb and cutting on 2,800kcal? (Training 5 days a week, 60 min cardio 5 days a week steady state, all the usual prep AAS, fat burners etc)


 I do the same mate hitting 320g pro a day but 50/60g is coming from incomplete sources, veg/carbs etc (using myfitnesspal)... every few weeks once kclas drop (contest prep), I asess how much pro I'm getting from complete/incomplete...

basically I've always made sure I'm getting 1.5 per lb bw, maybe too much but peace of mind knowing I'm defo getting more than enough for growth.


----------



## Tricky

youarewhatyoueat said:


> I do the same mate hitting 320g pro a day but 50/60g is coming from incomplete sources, veg/carbs etc (using myfitnesspal)... every few weeks once kclas drop (contest prep), I asess how much pro I'm getting from complete/incomplete...
> 
> basically I've always made sure I'm getting 1.5 per lb bw, maybe too much but peace of mind knowing I'm defo getting more than enough for growth.


 I couldn't believe his recommendation for bulking is 0.8g per Lbm so in theory I only need 140-145g protein for bulking. It this is the case I would be very happy as I much prefer carbs.

During my bulk I'm going to try 160g protein and go from there.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Tricky said:


> I couldn't believe his recommendation for bulking is 0.8g per Lbm so in theory I only need 140-145g protein for bulking. It this is the case I would be very happy as I much prefer carbs.
> 
> During my bulk I'm going to try 160g protein and go from there.


 Easy on the pocket to... like today's protein sources are... eggs, whey, salmon, turkey breast, white fish, ostrich fillet, chicken breast, always make sure I'm getting 4/5 diff sources, better amino acid pool


----------



## Tricky

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Easy on the pocket to... like today's protein sources are... eggs, whey, salmon, turkey breast, white fish, ostrich fillet, chicken breast, always make sure I'm getting 4/5 diff sources, better amino acid pool


 I'm simple mine is always chicken, egg whites and Greek yoghurt but I keep telling myself I'm going to eat 230-250g salmon twice a week and steak one a week


----------



## GeeHFifteen

@ElChapo

Does it make sense to draw two compounds together into one syringe to ease the PIP caused by one of the compounds?

In this case it would be Sus (painless) and NPP (painful and from the smell it seems like there is more BA than needed).


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo I'm an healty carrier mediterranean anemia subject, do you have some advise about AAS use?

What supps do you recommend?

T3, ECA stack, DNP and Clen are dangerous for me?

Thanks


----------



## ReRaise

youarewhatyoueat said:


> I do the same mate hitting 320g pro a day but 50/60g is coming from incomplete sources, veg/carbs etc (using myfitnesspal)... every few weeks once kclas drop (contest prep), I asess how much pro I'm getting from complete/incomplete...
> 
> basically I've always made sure I'm getting 1.5 per lb bw, maybe too much but peace of mind knowing I'm defo getting more than enough for growth.


 Is that 1.5 per lb of body weight or lean body mass mate? How do you set your carbs and fats. At 6 weeks out I'm on my arse and feel if I swapped out some protein or carb cals for protein everything would be better ha.


----------



## ElChapo

0161M said:


> What kind of results would you expect from a mast e only cycle
> 
> Would be hoping for body composition improvements, lowered fat and little to no mass gains
> 
> What dosage and length would be good to achieve this
> 
> @ElChapo


 Not much, it's a decent strength compound. You are missing out from testosterone, estradiol, and igf-1 they give you. Something like 300 mg testosterone+1 g masteron would be a good powerlifting cycle. I've tried mast only before, gives you a polished look and good strength, you could build mass with good diet and training but you need some test for optimal results.

Steroids don't cause fat loss. Less water = looks like you lost fat. Grant it, steroids can FACILITATE fat loss in a caloric deficit.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> @Mingster @ElChapo
> 
> That conversion on cholesterol and statins is exactly what my cardiologist tells me. I see a professor of cardiology for pre existing heart condition. He had stressed many times that high cholesterol is not necessarily a concern and is highly against statins.
> 
> In blood pressure he had suggested that this too is misunderstood and certainly was in my case!
> 
> My doctor put me on some medication of which he immediately took me off and was somewhat annoyed by that course of action. He suggested is far too commonly miss-diagnosed in the UK


 Smart doctor, very few around.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Realistically i plan to stay on so for best chance fertility wise can i run hcg continually even through the cruise phase?


 Run HCG ALWAYS when running AAS if you care about fertility.


----------



## ElChapo

zak007 said:


> Whats your thoughts on this and the general medicine industry.
> 
> For every one pill you take there's the possibility of 8 side effects with a low possibility of extreme side affects.
> 
> Do you stray away from general medicinal use or use as a normal "sick" individual would?
> 
> IMO i try to restrain medicinal use as much as possible and rely on natural recovery for everyday illnesses.


 If you are sick with a bad infection, or in bad pain, i am all for acute medicine use, but a lot of these drugs are abused and shoved down people's throats, causing tons of other health issues that can be prevented with lifestyle modifications with diet and exercise.

I'm not against medicine at all, it's amazing, but the best medicine is lifestyle(exercise/staying in shape), period.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What are your thoughts on Albuterol?. As studies have suggested that albuterol doesn't help with increasing the BMR just change the source of energy. Can it be used as an aid for re composition on maintenance calories?
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26239482


 It works for a lot of people, i don't see why not. I have no personal experience with it myself.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I like the idea of keeping carbs high and fat low when cutting.
> 
> In terms of your protein recommendation of 1.4g/lb lbm.... would you count the protein from non-protein sources such as oats, veg, etc within this?
> 
> My LBM is 162lb and my current macros are 320p/225c/75f (2,855kcal) 6 weeks out.
> 
> That protein looks very high but looking through my food diary it averages out at 275g from actual protein sources, But if I only need 1.4 x lbm I can lower my protein to say 270g (with 225g coming from direct protein source, which is 1.4/lb lbm) and replace these calories with carbs? I definitely perform better with carbs.
> 
> Out of interest how would you set contest prep macros for someone with lean body mass of 162lb and cutting on 2,800kcal? (Training 5 days a week, 60 min cardio 5 days a week steady state, all the usual prep AAS, fat burners etc)


 1-1.4 grams per lbs of LBM and all sources count.

The macros don't really matter, keep carbs/protein moderate and focus on your calories. Get minimum protein for muscle retention.


----------



## ElChapo

GeeHFifteen said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Does it make sense to draw two compounds together into one syringe to ease the PIP caused by one of the compounds?
> 
> In this case it would be Sus (painless) and NPP (painful and from the smell it seems like there is more BA than needed).


 Zero issues from doing this, go ahead.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Run HCG ALWAYS when running AAS if you care about fertility.


 I've never ran HCG & I've gotten my Girlfriend pregnant twice, while on quite a heavy stack as well.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo I'm an healty carrier mediterranean anemia subject, do you have some advise about AAS use?
> 
> What supps do you recommend?
> 
> T3, ECA stack, DNP and Clen are dangerous for me?
> 
> Thanks


 All the above are fine,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4220499/ : terminalia-arjuna


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> I've never ran HCG & I've gotten my Girlfriend pregnant twice, while on quite a heavy stack as well.


 Me too, i don't use HCG. I was running 1 gram Tren E, go figure.


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> Me too, i don't use HCG. I was running 1 gram Tren E, go figure.


 1g of tren, christ, you must be a monster of a man


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> 1g of tren, christ, you must be a monster of a man


 Haha, the old days. Don't need so much anymore. Not great for the CV performance either unless i keep ace under 300 mg and enathate under 400 mg.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> All the above are fine,
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4220499/ : terminalia-arjuna


 How could be helpful in my case (Anemia)?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ReRaise said:


> Is that 1.5 per lb of body weight or lean body mass mate? How do you set your carbs and fats. At 6 weeks out I'm on my arse and feel if I swapped out some protein or carb cals for protein everything would be better ha.


 Bodyweight mate. I'm 5ft 7 - (177lbs - 80kg)

Atm my kcals/macros are looking like... 320/330/90 = 3,410 (11.5 weeks out)

I've always done prep... low carb/higher fat (carb cycling) and got extreme low bodyfat with v good condition (naturally), But this is my first prep using aas so might keep carbs higher and fat lower this time to see how my body takes to it @ElChapo is swaying me more that way Haha.

I'm VERY meticulous with my preps and normally lose anything from 0.5/1lb pw, but as I said first prep with aas.

@ElChapo

Edited: I feel your pain lol, I'm 11 weeks and straving on 3400k

Defo will get harder if this is your first prep, I believe if you wanna achieve v good conditioning you have to dig deep.

Make sure your having refeeds e3d will fill you out and mentally and physically give you a boost to take on the next few days.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> How could be helpful in my case (Anemia)?


 Patients with β-thalassemia are characterized by a predominance of small-dense LDL particles, increased oxidative stress, and very high plasma levels of Lp-PLA2 mass and activity.

The thrice daily dosing of 500mg Arjuna water bark extract has also been used in one case study on Beta-Thalassemia with a reduction of Lp(a).


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Bodyweight mate. I'm 5ft 7 - (177lbs - 80kg)
> 
> Atm my kcals/macros are looking like... 320/330/90 = 3,410 (11.5 weeks out)
> 
> I've always done prep... low carb/higher fat (carb cycling) and got extreme low bodyfat with v good condition (naturally), But this is my first prep using aas so might keep carbs higher and fat lower this time to see how my body takes to it @ElChapo is swaying me more that way Haha.
> 
> I'm VERY meticulous with my preps and normally lose anything from 0.5/1lb pw, but as I said first prep with aas.
> 
> @ElChapo


 Whatever works best for you, some people do better on one or the other. Go by what foods you like the best. I love cereal, rice, potatoes, bananas, sandwiches, turkey, etc.

You should always enjoy your diet somewhat, compliance is #1. No matter what your diet is, if you can't stick to it, you will get zero results.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Me too, i don't use HCG. I was running 1 gram Tren E, go figure.


 Usually when people post their mid cycle bloods, esp on Tren - Fsh will be extremely low if not detectable.

People who manage to knock up their missus on cycle - does this mean they are producing some kind of Fsh or is it still possible to produce sperm without/with little fsh?

Or do these lucky people like yourself still produce enough fsh for fertility despite being on aas?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Usually when people post their mid cycle bloods, esp on Tren - Fsh will be extremely low if not detectable.
> 
> People who manage to knock up their missus on cycle - does this mean they are producing some kind of Fsh or is it still possible to produce sperm without/with little fsh?
> 
> Or do these lucky people like yourself still produce enough fsh for fertility despite being on aas?


 You can still produce sperm, albeit a lot less, but it only takes one.

No, FSH is definitely cooked on trenbolone.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Whatever works best for you, some people do better on one or the other. Go by what foods you like the best. I love cereal, rice, potatoes, bananas, sandwiches, turkey, etc.
> 
> You should always enjoy your diet somewhat, compliance is #1. No matter what your diet is, if you can't stick to it, you will get zero results.


 Can quite easily eat plain rice cakes and enjoy. Weetabix with abit of cinnamon and enjoy... bare in mind this is in offseason lol

Don't get me wrong I do work with iifym to an extent but over the years I mentally conditioned myself to enjoy absolutely anything.


----------



## gymfreak2010

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Can quite easily eat plain rice cakes and enjoy. Weetabix with abit of cinnamon and enjoy... bare in mind this is in offseason lol
> 
> Don't get me wrong I do work with iifym to an extent but over the years I mentally conditioned myself to enjoy absolutely anything.


 what about s**t ??


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Patients with β-thalassemia are characterized by a predominance of small-dense LDL particles, increased oxidative stress, and very high plasma levels of Lp-PLA2 mass and activity.
> 
> The thrice daily dosing of 500mg Arjuna water bark extract has also been used in one case study on Beta-Thalassemia with a reduction of Lp(a).


 What is the dosage that you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> What is the dosage that you recommend?


 500 mg x 3 daily


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Can quite easily eat plain rice cakes and enjoy. Weetabix with abit of cinnamon and enjoy... bare in mind this is in offseason lol
> 
> Don't get me wrong I do work with iifym to an extent but over the years I mentally conditioned myself to enjoy absolutely anything.


 I can enjoy any plain carb, it's just my nature. I love plain bread and rice, the carbs just favor me. I like fat fine, but i don't ever need or crave it.


----------



## JohhnyC

Current oil is giving me shocking pip and lot of swelling. Big lump under the skin. 7 days to go down and dissipate.

I normally use a cold compress to help, seems to help but would a hot one help. My logic: heat the area up to dissipate the oil


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> I can enjoy any plain carb, it's just my nature. I love plain bread and rice, the carbs just favor me. I like fat fine, but i don't ever need or crave it.


 Plain toasted new york bagel is heaven haha never mind a cinnamon&raisin with jam or lemon curd hah


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

gymfreak2010 said:


> what about s**t ??


 Only if its dog s**t :thumb


----------



## gymfreak2010

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Only if its dog s**t :thumb


 I though s**t was s**t lol oh well s**t happens !!


----------



## JohhnyC

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Plain toasted new york bagel is heaven haha never mind a cinnamon&raisin with jam or lemon curd hah


 Massive dollop of Peanut butter on thick toast, carbs fats and protein all in one. Love that as a snack!

Anyone who goes to burger king and ditches the bun to avoid carbs needs therpy.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Current oil is giving me shocking pip and lot of swelling. Big lump under the skin. 7 days to go down and dissipate.
> 
> I normally use a cold compress to help, seems to help but would a hot one help. My logic: heat the area up to dissipate the oil


 What compound is it? Has it happened more that once with the same oil?

*Ice it for 20 minutes, x 3 daily +ibuprofen 400 mg x 3 daily. Best cure for PIP, PERIOD.*

Heat will increase swelling typically. You want to reduce inflammation, the main issue.

I have a lot of personal experience with PIP in my early days of homebrewing, experimenting with different concentrations, blends, carriers and solvents, so i got really good at dealing with it.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> What compound is it? Has it happened more that once with the same oil?
> 
> Ice it for 20 minutes, x 3 daily +ibuprofen 400 mg x 3 daily. Best cure for PIP, period.


 Its a blend, Tren test mast 125 each. 2 different vials, same brewer, each vial gave same reaction. Worst pip I ever had since starting AAS many years ago

Have a vial of pure GSO / EO mix on order , was going to water the mix down as an experiment so see if it makes a difference. In any case I have stopped using it but curiosity as to why is bugging me 

I get pip from AAS from time to time but very rarely I get swelling, maybe a touch but its gone in a day.

Cheers for the advice as always dude! Grateful!


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Its a blend, Tren test mast 125 each. 2 different vials, same brewer, each vial gave same reaction. Worst pip I ever had since starting AAS many years ago
> 
> Have a vial of pure GSO / EO mix on order , was going to water the mix down as an experiment so see if it makes a difference. In any case I have stopped using it but curiosity as to why is bugging me
> 
> I get pip from AAS from time to time but very rarely I get swelling, maybe a touch but its gone in a day.
> 
> Cheers for the advice as always dude! Grateful!


 You can cut down the concentration and inject more oil, to make up for the concentration. Cutting 50/50 with another plain oil should fix the issue.

Anytime man


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> You can cut down the concentration and inject more oil, to make up for the concentration. Cutting 50/50 with another plain oil should fix the issue.
> 
> Anytime man


 What do you mean with another "plain oil"? From another vial, or a household oil such as evoo? Might seem like a daft question lol


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> What do you mean with another "plain oil"? From another vial, or a household oil such as evoo? Might seem like a daft question lol


 Carrier oil. MCT, GSO, cottonseed, etc. Preferably filtered or USP grade but it doesn't matter.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

cam you mix two different types of carrier oil in the same syringe


----------



## mangob

@ElChapo For HCG - does it make a difference whether you use bac water or NaCl, when you want to store it?

I tend to freeze the syringes.

Do I need to be afraid of the hcg being "destroyed" or unusable if I use NaCl?


----------



## Pancake'

Thoughts on progressively overloading on weighted press ups.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> cam you mix two different types of carrier oil in the same syringe


 Yeah, no issue.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Thoughts on progressively overloading on weighted press ups.


 Progressive overload all your lifts, best way to drive muscle growth, period.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> @ElChapo For HCG - does it make a difference whether you use bac water or NaCl, when you want to store it?
> 
> I tend to freeze the syringes.
> 
> Do I need to be afraid of the hcg being "destroyed" or unusable if I use NaCl?


From Dr. Saya (TRT expert) : "Once reconstituted, the general recommendation is to NOT freeze, however damage to the peptide likely increases proportional to the number of freeze-thaw cycles. In other words, if you are keeping it to only ONE freeze-thaw cycle there should be far less potential damage to the peptide than for more/repetitive freeze-thaw cycles."

"Once you reconstitute the HCG it's recommended to refrigerate, not freeze it. Freezing is unnecessary as HCG is stable under refrigeration for up to 60 days after reconstitution. "

You can freeze it and it works fine for most people, just avoid freezing and thawing more than one time.


----------



## Tricky

How important is sleep for recovery and growth if one is taking test anyway? I only sleep 5 hours a day how detrimental is this amount of sleep to gains and recovery

for someone who has no fish in their diet what dose of fish oil is needed if any?


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, no issue.


 Just because one oil was a clear colour and one was yellow


----------



## TREACLE

This is an excellent thread, some great info.

Oral steroids and inflammatory bowel disease (specifically Crohn's), anything I should be aware of? Not considering using them currently as I can't eat enough to go on cycle but always good to learn more.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> How important is sleep for recovery and growth if one is taking test anyway? I only sleep 5 hours a day how detrimental is this amount of sleep to gains and recovery
> 
> for someone who has no fish in their diet what dose of fish oil is needed if any?


 If you feel good on 5 hours, it may be all you need. There are genes that control how much sleep you need for optimal health/function. Not everyone needs 8 hours per day.

You need sleep not just for testosterone/growth hormone but to recover your CNS, mind, and other body systems. If you are feeling good on 5 hours, keep at it. Your body will tell you what you need, so listen to it.

1-3 grams of a high quality fish oil with a fatty meal for optimal absorption. Carlson's is a solid brand, good value and great quality. Alternatively, you can eat a small portion of salmon once or twice a week. It works the same.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Just because one oil was a clear colour and one was yellow


 Just mix it, i do it all the time. They will mix.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Just mix it, i do it all the time. They will mix.


 Ok thanks bro


----------



## ElChapo

TREACLE said:


> This is an excellent thread, some great info.
> 
> Oral steroids and inflammatory bowel disease (specifically Crohn's), anything I should be aware of? Not considering using them currently as I can't eat enough to go on cycle but always good to learn more.


 Should not be an issue. I recommend for curcumin for crohn's, celiac's, IBS, etc. Very potent anti-inflammatory compound, with the potency of acetaminophen in some studies. It excels in gut disease.


----------



## ElChapo

TREACLE said:


> This is an excellent thread, some great info.
> 
> Oral steroids and inflammatory bowel disease (specifically Crohn's), anything I should be aware of? Not considering using them currently as I can't eat enough to go on cycle but always good to learn more.


 I will warn you that people with auto-immune gut issues tend to have problems with absorbing nutrients, etc ( you probably already know this) so you would be better off injecting the orals as absorption may not be optimal in your gut. Alternatively, you can take orals with piperine for enhanced bio availability.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> If you feel good on 5 hours, it may be all you need. There are genes that control how much sleep you need for optimal health/function. Not everyone needs 8 hours per day.
> 
> You need sleep not just for testosterone/growth hormone but to recover your CNS, mind, and other body systems. If you are feeling good on 5 hours, keep at it. Your body will tell you what you need, so listen to it.
> 
> 1-3 grams of a high quality fish oil with a fatty meal for optimal absorption. Carlson's is a solid brand, good value and great quality. Alternatively, you can eat a small portion of salmon once or twice a week. It works the same.


 Think my years of being in the military and time spent in the desert being woke up by the early morning sun and the local call to prayer at sunrise lol has made me a morning person and one who functions on little sleep

by small portion I assume 200g twice weekly would be adequate

is 10iu per week the minimum amount needed for health benifits and fat loss muscle growth of HGH. 2iu a day or would 3iu mon/wed/fri be suffice. I suppose there are too many variables in the branding and quality of the GH and possibly adding something like low dose mast to low dose test would be more cost effective and benifits or am I way off the mark here?


----------



## TREACLE

ElChapo said:


> Should not be an issue. I recommend for curcumin for crohn's, celiac's, IBS, etc. Very potent anti-inflammatory compound, with the potency of acetaminophen in some studies. It excels in gut disease.


 Cheers dude. How much would be appropriate on a daily basis? I'm struggling with it at the moment. Eating very clean, nothing seems to work... According to blood test inflammation markers are down (due to azathioprine) but it is clearly inflamed, especially large bowel.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Think my years of being in the military and time spent in the desert being woke up by the early morning sun and the local call to prayer at sunrise lol has made me a morning person and one who functions on little sleep
> 
> by small portion I assume 200g twice weekly would be adequate
> 
> is 10iu per week the minimum amount needed for health benifits and fat loss muscle growth of HGH. 2iu a day or would 3iu mon/wed/fri be suffice. I suppose there are too many variables in the branding and quality of the GH and possibly adding something like low dose mast to low dose test would be more cost effective and benifits or am I way off the mark here?


 Roughly 3 oz portions. Tons of unoxidized, pristine omega 3's.

Replacement dose: 1 IU daily Performance: 2-3 IU daily, this is for 100% GH/pharma.


----------



## ElChapo

TREACLE said:


> Cheers dude. How much would be appropriate on a daily basis? I'm struggling with it at the moment. Eating very clean, nothing seems to work... According to blood test inflammation markers are down (due to azathioprine) but it is clearly inflamed, especially large bowel.


 Avoid food allergies, cutting gluten might help.

1 gram curcumin or +2-4 grams tumeric daily


----------



## TREACLE

ElChapo said:


> Avoid food allergies, cutting gluten might help.
> 
> 1 gram curcumin or +2-4 grams tumeric daily


 Will order some in the morning. Thanks for your help!


----------



## ElChapo

TREACLE said:


> Will order some in the morning. Thanks for your help!


 No problem, you can read up on some studies in the meantime

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21649456

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17101300


----------



## cell-tech

Planning to start 200mg test pheynl prop and 400mg npp. 2 Questions:

Is pinning twice a week enough for the pheynl prop ester or needs to be more frequent?

I want to run this cycle up till i go abroad for a 4 week holiday so whats the best apporoach in terms of keeping test levels up as i cant jab for 4 weeks?


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> From Dr. Saya (TRT expert) : "Once reconstituted, the general recommendation is to NOT freeze, however damage to the peptide likely increases proportional to the number of freeze-thaw cycles. In other words, if you are keeping it to only ONE freeze-thaw cycle there should be far less potential damage to the peptide than for more/repetitive freeze-thaw cycles."
> 
> "Once you reconstitute the HCG it's recommended to refrigerate, not freeze it. Freezing is unnecessary as HCG is stable under refrigeration for up to 60 days after reconstitution. "
> 
> You can freeze it and it works fine for most people, just avoid freezing and thawing more than one time.


 Keep to one "freeze - thaw cycle" anyway. :thumb

But the solution I use has no impact or is it irrelevant if I freeze it?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Avoid food allergies, cutting gluten might help.
> 
> 1 gram curcumin or +2-4 grams tumeric daily


 "2-4 grams tumeric daily"... are we talking the tumeric spice here?

I understand that tumeric contains curcumin, but to get the the amount of curcumin we need to be beneficial from the spice would we not have to consume ALOT daily?... obviously the bioavailability of the spice wouldn't be as effective as a supplement.

Interesting you bring this up as I done abit of research a while back and used to make up my own (supp) seasoning consisting of...

5g cinnamon

1g ginger

2g black pepper

4g fenugreek

5g turmeric

2g cayenne pepper

These we're the doses I researched to have some beneficial properties.

I started to get a red rash on my face and at the time I put it down to the homemade seasoning so I stopped. Would be good to see if you think adding this back in would be a good idea?

Also have 10ml acv with each meal and just added these back into my nutrition after a trip to costco lol...

Chia seeds each meal

Wheatgrass

Superfoods blend

Flax/sunflower/pumpkin/seasame/goji berries

Flax seed


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo would donating blood bring down bp?

Ive ran quite a few cycles and never really suffered from high bp

last week I was getting headaches quite often so I measured my bp (hadn't done it for a few weeks) and it was higher than I'd like at 135/91. I'm on test/tren e 6 weeks in at 600/320. Wasn't taking an bp supplements but I got some hawthorn berry Monday and been taking all week. Headaches have stopped and I donated Thursday. I measured my bp last night and it was back down to 112/67.


----------



## SlinMeister

I am trying to planning down a successful offseason, and try to not get an heart attack because of too low cholesterol levels...

So test tren w for sure it will be out of question.

Do you think that something like 35iu HGH ew 600-900 TestE 400 TrenE 600-900 Deca Aromasin Raloxifene and 1mg Dostinex ew can work?

The idea behind is to blow up as lean as possible....

Which bulk cycle was the most successful for you?

I am a bit concerned about tanking my cholesterol for 32weeks


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

hey brother what do you think of these supplements in terms of sexual health, energy levels, wellbeing, mood, general effectiveness etc etc

1. 5htp

2. DIM

3. MACA

4. L carnitine

5. L tyrosine


----------



## Pancake'

What's your take on IIFYM? I tend to keep my diet around 80% bro of whole foods choices. The remaining making up calories with ice cream, pizza, junk lol.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> Keep to one "freeze - thaw cycle" anyway. :thumb
> 
> But the solution I use has no impact or is it irrelevant if I freeze it?


 Use bacwater if you can help it, bit normal saline will be fine if you don't let it sit around.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> "2-4 grams tumeric daily"... are we talking the tumeric spice here?
> 
> I understand that tumeric contains curcumin, but to get the the amount of curcumin we need to be beneficial from the spice would we not have to consume ALOT daily?... obviously the bioavailability of the spice wouldn't be as effective as a supplement.
> 
> Interesting you bring this up as I done abit of research a while back and used to make up my own (supp) seasoning consisting of...
> 
> 5g cinnamon
> 
> 1g ginger
> 
> 2g black pepper
> 
> 4g fenugreek
> 
> 5g turmeric
> 
> 2g cayenne pepper
> 
> These we're the doses I researched to have some beneficial properties.
> 
> I started to get a red rash on my face and at the time I put it down to the homemade seasoning so I stopped. Would be good to see if you think adding this back in would be a good idea?
> 
> Also have 10ml acv with each meal and just added these back into my nutrition after a trip to costco lol...
> 
> Chia seeds each meal
> 
> Wheatgrass
> 
> Superfoods blend
> 
> Flax/sunflower/pumpkin/seasame/goji berries
> 
> Flax seed


 Context my friend, the poster above was asking about Crohn's disease, an auto-immune disease of the GI tract.

We want systemic bioavailability to be low so that most of the bioactive curcumin stays in the GI tract to reduce inflammation. This is why i did not suggest piperine use.

You can try it again, with that much stuff mixed in, it might be hard to pin point the problem, but perhaps the red rash was a coincidence


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo would donating blood bring down bp?
> 
> Ive ran quite a few cycles and never really suffered from high bp
> 
> last week I was getting headaches quite often so I measured my bp (hadn't done it for a few weeks) and it was higher than I'd like at 135/91. I'm on test/tren e 6 weeks in at 600/320. Wasn't taking an bp supplements but I got some hawthorn berry Monday and been taking all week. Headaches have stopped and I donated Thursday. I measured my bp last night and it was back down to 112/67.


 Higher hematocrit has been associated with higher systolic BP via hyperviscosity of the blood. It has helped some people, the lower you bring HCT, the better, but you don't want to be anemic either.

Glad you got it under control regardless, cardio usually keeps it under control as well.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I am trying to planning down a successful offseason, and try to not get an heart attack because of too low cholesterol levels...
> 
> So test tren w for sure it will be out of question.
> 
> Do you think that something like 35iu HGH ew 600-900 TestE 400 TrenE 600-900 Deca Aromasin Raloxifene and 1mg Dostinex ew can work?
> 
> The idea behind is to blow up as lean as possible....
> 
> Which bulk cycle was the most successful for you?
> 
> I am a bit concerned about tanking my cholesterol for 32weeks


 High dose test and deca and even low dose tren will rape your cholesterol.

200 mg tren ace dropped my HDL very low, very fast. I usually have very high HDL. The GH is overkill.

You can't be in this game for monster size and not tangle with health problems, you are going to have have trashed lipids to get anywhere in this game, the best you can do is control your BP and keep up cardio training while you blast.

If you are advanced and know what you are doing, 1 gram test, 1 gram tren, 700 mg winstrol per week + GH/slin.

You will grow big, strong, dry and lean, i can't guaranteed no heart attack obviously.

Without good training and diet, this will do s**t for the risk you put your physical and mental health through, so make it count and don't train like a vagina like most bodybuilders.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey brother what do you think of these supplements in terms of sexual health, energy levels, wellbeing, mood, general effectiveness etc etc
> 
> 1. 5htp
> 
> 2. DIM
> 
> 3. MACA
> 
> 4. L carnitine
> 
> 5. L tyrosine


 Carnitine has some good potential, i don't like to mess with precursors of neurotransmitters like 5-HTP (serotonin) and tyrosine (dopamine)

Your body is very good and downregulating and upregulating pathways to return to homeostasis.

Some people love maca. Maca research is mixed as a lot of the studies are from Peru, where they grow this s**t.

Yohimbine will increase libido and erections, but is also a strong stimulant.

DIM is meh.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> What's your take on IIFYM? I tend to keep my diet around 80% bro of whole foods choices. The remaining making up calories with ice cream, pizza, junk lol.


 It works fine, but for best results in a cut and bulk you won't eat garbage.

If you are cutting and add pizza and s**t, you will not feel satisfied as if you ate whole foods with more carbs and protein.

If you are bulking and keep fat high, you will gain more fat in a surplus.

In moderation, flexible dieting is key to not hating your life and sticking to your diet plan. Some people abuse it though.

I maintain 7-9% bodyfat year round and eat whatever i want, but i am sensible about it. I don't tend to crave junk food though, so that helps but i do like a good pizza or burger.

If you can fit pizza, donuts, etc into your cut or bulk, occasionally, no problem at all. Stick to your deficit/surplus for long enough and you will get results that you desire, period.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Higher hematocrit has been associated with higher systolic BP via hyperviscosity of the blood. It has helped some people, the lower you bring HCT, the better, but you don't want to be anemic either.
> 
> Glad you got it under control regardless, cardio usually keeps it under control as well.


 Well I had my bloods done in feb and hct was at .44, I donated shortly after before I started b&c so it shouldn't of been high anyway. Was just wondering how it would affect it giving more blood as I couldn't see hawthorn berry bringing it down in5 days

will be starting cardio as of Monday as my heart rate is high also. I have a high resting rate anyway but being on cycle and no cardio is not helping lol


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Context my friend, the poster above was asking about Crohn's disease, an auto-immune disease of the GI tract.
> 
> We want systemic bioavailability to be low so that most of the bioactive curcumin stays in the GI tract to reduce inflammation. This is why i did not suggest piperine use.
> 
> You can try it again, with that much stuff mixed in, it might be hard to pin point the problem, but perhaps the red rash was a coincidence


 At the time I think I was researching glucose disposal agents, and most of the ingredients contained these spices (and more) so thought I'd make my own to save alittle money on buying more supps... I know maybe abit extreme lol

Instead of buying a curcumin supplement (which would be the better option) do you think adding 5g of turmeric spice for inflammation Etc across meals would still be beneficial?

I actually like tumeric along with the other spices I mentioned, so surley it would be a win win.

Thanks @ElChapo again we are lucky to have you on the board.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Well I had my bloods done in feb and hct was at .44, I donated shortly after before I started b&c so it shouldn't of been high anyway. Was just wondering how it would affect it giving more blood as I couldn't see hawthorn berry bringing it down in5 days
> 
> will be starting cardio as of Monday as my heart rate is high also. I have a high resting rate anyway but being on cycle and no cardio is not helping lol


 Yeah, if you can help it, keep it between 60-80 BPM. If you are on cycle, don't worry about the elevation so much. Tren usually spikes mine up to 90s. You could run a beta blocker if it worries you on cycle, but long-term, cardio will fix it right up.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> At the time I think I was researching glucose disposal agents, and most of the ingredients contained these spices (and more) so thought I'd make my own to save alittle money on buying more supps... I know maybe abit extreme lol
> 
> Instead of buying a curcumin supplement (which would be the better option) do you think adding 5g of turmeric spice for inflammation Etc across meals would still be beneficial?
> 
> I actually like tumeric along with the other spices I mentioned, so surley it would be a win win.
> 
> Thanks @ElChapo again we are lucky to have you on the board.


 5 g tumeric for gut inflammation.

If you want it's benefits to be systemic, ie whole body inflammation, alzheimer's prevention, etc, i would recommend actual curcumin+piperine.

You need piperine in order to prevent glucordination of the curcumin, which inhibits absorption.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> 5 g tumeric for gut inflammation.
> 
> If you want it's benefits to be systemic, ie whole body inflammation, alzheimer's prevention, etc, i would recommend actual curcumin+piperine.
> 
> You need piperine in order to prevent glucordination of the curcumin, which inhibits absorption.


 Got ya... thanks again


----------



## Jordan08

I am unable to get Zinc Picolinate supplement. Is it OK to go ahead with Zinc as Zinc amino acid chelate?


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

how much cardio a week for health wise b&c


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I am unable to get Zinc Picolinate supplement. Is it OK to go ahead with Zinc as Zinc amino acid chelate?


 Yeah, chelates are good.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> how much cardio a week for health wise b&c


 HIIT style ; 12-25 minutes x 2- x 3 per week

LISS/Low intensity ; 30 minutes-1 hour x 2- 3 per week

Moderate intensity ; 25 minutes-40 minutes x 2-3 per week

Pick any style you like, stick to activities you find enjoyable. I like jump roping, boxing, submission wrestling, etc.

HIIT is the best bang for your buck, it takes the least amount of time, burns the most calories, and will increase aerobic AND anaerobic conditioning at the same time.

You know it's working when your resting heart rate starts to get lower, before i started doing consistent cardio, my HR was typical 70s, now i average at 58 BPM at rest because my CV system is that much more efficient at pumping blood and oxygen to tissues.


----------



## peanutbutter9

@ElChapo

How good is HGH for a powerlifter? I have access to 180iu HGH from the NHS. So it's legit pharma. It's doubtful I can get more. Half of me thinks just reinvest on aas/food, but since it's real legit pharma I am curious as to how good it really is...


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, chelates are good.


 Should I stick with 50mg?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Should I stick with 50mg?


 It's a bit high for long term. 15-30 mg will cover most people, especially if you eat red meat.

Fun fact that you will like : Men with androgenetic alopecia have lower tissue levels of zinc and higher levels of copper. Keeping zinc up is good. Protects the prostate and helps with acne.


----------



## ElChapo

peanutbutter9 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How good is HGH for a powerlifter? I have access to 180iu HGH from the NHS. So it's legit pharma. It's doubtful I can get more. Half of me thinks just reinvest on aas/food, but since it's real legit pharma I am curious as to how good it really is...


 Will help with recovery and with insulin, and help increase strength and mass.


----------



## Jenga

I am 6 days into a 6 week blast of keto diet. Is it worth adding metformin daily? After my weekly refeed meal would metformin put me back into ketosis quicker?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Just a quick one elchapo I believe you've already been asked this but can't remember the answer... not feeling digging through 70 pages lol

1) hgh - IM or subq

2) timming - pre/post wo - before bed - anytime

3) best site for chosen injection

Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

Jenga said:


> I am 6 days into a 6 week blast of keto diet. Is it worth adding metformin daily? After my weekly refeed meal would metformin put me back into ketosis quicker?


 Not a fan of keto diet, i think it's a good way for overweight people to get their feet wet with dieting as you don't have to really count calories to get into a respectable deficit most of the time, but keto is suboptimal for health, mood, performance, and well-being.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Just a quick one elchapo I believe you've already been asked this but can't remember the answer... not feeling digging through 70 pages lol
> 
> 1) hgh - IM or subq
> 
> 2) timming - pre/post wo - before bed - anytime
> 
> 3) best site for chosen injection
> 
> Thanks in advance


 1- Doesn't matter, you can even mix into your AAS syringe w/ oil.

2- Doesn't matter, i would do in the morning, easy to remember and mimicks the natural spike in the early hours.

3- Anywhere, but avoid spots with excessive fat, these sites have reduced circulation. I base this on studies done on IM vs SQ HCG where the obese women had much lower levels when injecting SQ. Fat has poorer systemic circulation going through it, this is why IM leads to faster and more complete absorption.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> HIIT style ; 12-25 minutes x 2- x 3 per week
> 
> LISS/Low intensity ; 30 minutes-1 hour x 2- 3 per week
> 
> Moderate intensity ; 25 minutes-40 minutes x 2-3 per week
> 
> Pick any style you like, stick to activities you find enjoyable. I like jump roping, boxing, submission wrestling, etc.
> 
> HIIT is the best bang for your buck, it takes the least amount of time, burns the most calories, and will increase aerobic AND anaerobic conditioning at the same time.
> 
> You know it's working when your resting heart rate starts to get lower, before i started doing consistent cardio, my HR was typical 70s, now i average at 58 BPM at rest because my CV system is that much more efficient at pumping blood and oxygen to tissues.


 that is nearly exactly what my cardiologist told, you know your stuff dude! (Except I am advised to avoid HIIT due to a heart defect, ECG highlighted a few issues at high intensity) My rpm is 57 at 44 years old and ran 6km in under 30mins today after hours weights. Cardio in my view is essential to good health and especially if on gear. I am a firm believer it improves weight training for the moderate weight trainer, no idea about a power-lifter though or those carrying a large amount of ,muscle


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo

My gf has recently started training seriously with a Miami pro winner. Her trainer reckons she should try compete within the next 9 months.

My gf has now asked me if I could get her some anavar, I'm not to sure but remember you mentioning your partner takes AAS

would anavar be a good choice or are there better options. Also would a low dose of say anavar for 12 weeks have any permanent effects in regards to fertility etc.

Bit long winded but just not to clued up when it comes to AAS usage in females so would really appreciate the help.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> that is nearly exactly what my cardiologist told, you know your stuff dude! (Except I am advised to avoid HIIT due to a heart defect, ECG highlighted a few issues at high intensity) My rpm is 57 at 44 years old and ran 6km in under 30mins today after hours weights. Cardio in my view is essential to good health and especially if on gear. I am a firm believer it improves weight training for the moderate weight trainer, no idea about a power-lifter though or those carrying a large amount of ,muscle


 Sounds like you got your s**t together man, that's great.

Cardio is just incredible for every possible issue a human can have with their physical and mental health. Preventing cognitive decline, depression, and fatigue. Improving mood and energy levels and preventing chronic disease like diabetes, obesity, inflammation, and arthritis. It is without question the *BEST* medicine.

Keeping up my cardio during a blast keeps my heart rate and BP in range and keeps my lifts going up because i don't get out of breath in the middle of a set, especially at higher rep ranges and physical/mental recovery are improved.

Some of the best powerlifters incorporate conditioning into their programs. They also happen to be two of the most aesthetic and lean powerlifters, Jesse Norris and Stan Efferding (the strongest IFBB pro in the planet). These are strong as f**k and stay under 10% bodyfat year round, it's amazing.


----------



## cell-tech

cell-tech said:


> Planning to start 200mg test pheynl prop and 400mg npp. 2 Questions:
> 
> Is pinning twice a week enough for the pheynl prop ester or needs to be more frequent?
> 
> I want to run this cycle up till i go abroad for a 4 week holiday so whats the best apporoach in terms of keeping test levels up as i cant jab for 4 weeks?


 @ElChapo please


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> My gf has recently started training seriously with a Miami pro winner. Her trainer reckons she should try compete within the next 9 months.
> 
> My gf has now asked me if I could get her some anavar, I'm not to sure but remember you mentioning your partner takes AAS
> 
> would anavar be a good choice or are there better options. Also would a low dose of say anavar for 12 weeks have any permanent effects in regards to fertility etc.
> 
> Bit long winded but just not to clued up when it comes to AAS usage in females so would really appreciate the help.


 If her training and diet are in place, 5-15 mg of anavar will do a lot. 20 mg per day is more for advanced women.

My go-to AAS for females is NPP. I can give you a formula on how to convert male doses to females' for injectables, this is based on data from female HRT specialist, the amount of endogenous testosterone females produce, and my own experience with dosing females with AAS.

Male dose÷10 = Female equivalent dosage.

Example: Male TRT is 100-200 mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate per week. Female TRT is 10-20 mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week. (Will bring most of them to the top of the natural female range for testosterone ; +50-70 ng/dL)

A 1 gram cycle for a female would be 100 mg of AAS per week with similar results & sides.

A good starter dose for a female for injectable AAS is 50 mg per week, equivalent to the basic male cycle of 500 mg per week.

Winstrol and anavar are the best orals for females, winstrol will give her a lot more bang for her buck and enhanced strength and lean tissue. I would go with winstrol at 10 mg daily for starters, focus on caloric surplus and progressive overload training. Winstrol is better than anavar in almost anyways, cheaper, and easier to find.

I would introduce her to winstrol @ 10 mg daily first, and go from there. That's how my SO started out and she was ecstatic with her results (improved recovery, energy, libido, massive increase in strength and lean tissue).

Later on, you can try NPP if you want try injectables. It's almost as mild as anavar in terms of virilization but more anabolic than test. Libido will explode, so be prepared.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo please


 x 2 per week minimum, my GF does NPP(nandrolone phenylpropionate) @ x 3 pw with great results.

If you are going on vacation for 4 weeks, pin 1 gram of testosterone undecoanate (Nebido). This will cover you for the whole time. If you wanna play it even safer, take some AI in a bottle of vitamins in case you get E2 sides, but nebido releases fairly slowly and if you aren't a fast aromatizer you should be fine.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> It's a bit high for long term. 15-30 mg will cover most people, especially if you eat red meat.
> 
> Fun fact that you will like : Men with androgenetic alopecia have lower tissue levels of zinc and higher levels of copper. Keeping zinc up is good. Protects the prostate and helps with acne.


 Great info. I would add 50mg twice a week then. Cheers


----------



## Pancake'

Thoughts on Gluten/wholegrains being detrimental towards health? I was listening to a doctor recently, Dr. Glidden and he had a list of 12 bad foods (see below) to avoid for longevity, I was rather surprised, when he stated avoid wholegrains.

Would you be kind enough to discuss maximising longevity through diet? I notice you seem to be under the impression, that vegetables are worthless?

What foods/superfoods do you think are excellent additions to a diet?


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, if you can help it, keep it between 60-80 BPM. If you are on cycle, don't worry about the elevation so much. Tren usually spikes mine up to 90s. You could run a beta blocker if it worries you on cycle, but long-term, cardio will fix it right up.


 Yeah mine goes up in 90 on tren. I've heard of beta blockers but don't know anything about them. Take it they're a prescription drug? Any you'd recommend trying to source?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Thoughts on Gluten/wholegrains being detrimental towards health? I was listening to a doctor recently, Dr. Glidden and he had a list of 12 bad foods (see below) to avoid for longevity, I was rather surprised, when he stated avoid wholegrains.
> 
> Would you be kind enough to discuss maximising longevity through diet? I notice you seem to be under the impression, that vegetables are worthless?
> 
> What foods/superfoods do you think are excellent additions to a diet?
> 
> View attachment 143165


 I didn't say vegetables are worthless. If you have no sensitivity to gluten or grains, then continue eating them. Whole grains are another vastly overrated food group. Most of the time, they have to be enriched just to enhance the nutrient content in which they are naturally lacking. Otherwise, they are a great and cheap energy source.

Health and longetivity is mostly going to come down to being active, staying lean, avoiding smoking & recreational drug use, excessive alcohol consumption and finally, genetics.

A balanced diet to me is one that covers most if not all macro and micro nutrient requirements, enough protein for amino acids that are important in regulating neurotransmitters(tyrosine+tryptophan), immunology and muscle(leucine).

Eating a well-rounded diet ensures you get everything you need. Steak+potatoes = Ton of iron, zinc, magnesium, potassium, B vitamins, etc. Just to give an example. Chicken and tuna are rich in selenium and more b vitamins, salmon/sardines/anchovies = omega 3's. The list goes on.

There is no reason to avoid processed foods, but if they make up a large percentage of your total caloric intake, you will typically be deficient in many micronutrients and they are usually not as satiating as whole foods, making healthy bodyfat percentage maintenance more difficult.

Being fat increases systemic inflammation and increases the risk of many chronic diseases, including cancer.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Yeah mine goes up in 90 on tren. I've heard of beta blockers but don't know anything about them. Take it they're a prescription drug? Any you'd recommend trying to source?


 Propranolol does the job, you can find it on indian pharma site and some UGLs will carry it. It blocks beta-adrenergic receptors in the cardiovascular system to induce relaxation and slow down heart rate/lower BP.

You don't really need it, having 90 BPM heart rate for a couple of months is not going to do any long-term damage to your CV system, but this is why we shouldn't run this s**t in high doses for very long if we care about our health.


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> Use bacwater if you can help it, bit normal saline will be fine if you don't let it sit around.


 fill and freeze immediately... defrost* only what I need for use


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> fill and freeze immediately... defrost* only what I need for use


 You will be alright, just make sure it's working (balls stay plump or return to previous size)


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> You will be alright, just make sure it's working (balls stay plump or return to previous size)


 Thank you very very much for your insight.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> Thank you very very much for your insight.


 No problem


----------



## Pancake'

Apologies, meant to quote overrated, must of been multitasking, thanks for the response.

What can be done about stretch marks? people have suggested babyoil, think I've past that stage, they're faded pink/white and particularly around both biceps.

Any input on how to minimise aging? I find since I've made gains, and any further gains I do make, it adds years to me.  I'm only young, but compare to pre training, I was a boy compare to now.


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

@ElChapo I love using DNP and always get great results from it with a strict diet. However sometimes during a DNP cycle I give in to carb cravings (couple days).

My question: Is it possible to overeat and gain fat while running 250mg DNP?


----------



## Tricky

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ElChapo I love using DNP and always get great results from it with a strict diet. However sometimes during a DNP cycle I give in to carb cravings (couple days).
> 
> My question: Is it possible to overeat and gain fat while running 250mg DNP?


 Yes without doubt! If you pig out and eat 50% above maintence dnp will not burn that 50% off therefore you gain weight

been there done that and DNP is a fat loss aid, albeit it a very good one but it's limited to how many kcals it can actually burn


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ElChapo I love using DNP and always get great results from it with a strict diet. However sometimes during a DNP cycle I give in to carb cravings (couple days).
> 
> My question: Is it possible to overeat and gain fat while running 250mg DNP?


 Of course, DNP only makes using energy less efficient. It doesnt turn you into a bottomless pit.


----------



## JohhnyC

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ElChapo I love using DNP and always get great results from it with a strict diet. *However sometimes during a DNP cycle I give in to carb craving*s (couple days).
> 
> My question: Is it possible to overeat and gain fat while running 250mg DNP?


 check here, he mentions EC stack to help with hunger.

My biggest issue on DNP

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/301254-using-dnp/?do=embed&comment=5714723&embedComment=5714723&embedDo=findComment


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

JohhnyC said:


> check here, he mentions EC stack to help with hunger.
> 
> My biggest issue on DNP
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/301254-using-dnp/?do=embed&comment=5714723&embedComment=5714723&embedDo=findComment
> 
> Thanks, I'm already running EC with DNP and it helps a lot during the day but my biggest problem is late at night when I've had a long day at work. Going to try taking EC later in the day and see if that works.


----------



## Rockstar61811

@ElChapo how can a person best manage prostate health while on TRT?


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Update from the guy with a 2.5k CK value.

Just got ecg results...all normal - a fit and normal heart.

HR is down to 60-65 after dropping tren e (last jab two weeks ago).

I took a week off and also did another blood test to see the CK level. I get results tomorrow for that and expect it to be lower, but the fact my ECG and heart is "normal and fit" means it must of been from training hard after a long lay off!!

At least I know my hard work was doing something!

Back on tren, t3 and EPI from tomorrow lol, 3 more weeks until holiday to drop 5-7lbs.


----------



## Wayno

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Update from the guy with a 2.5k CK value.
> 
> Just got ecg results...all normal - a fit and normal heart.
> 
> HR is down to 60-65 after dropping tren e (last jab two weeks ago).
> 
> I took a week off and also did another blood test to see the CK level. I get results tomorrow for that and expect it to be lower, but the fact my ECG and heart is "normal and fit" means it must of been from training hard after a long lay off!!
> 
> At least I know my hard work was doing something!
> 
> Back on tren, t3 and EPI from tomorrow lol, 3 more weeks until holiday to drop 5-7lbs.


 Good stuff mate :thumbup1:


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> @ElChapo how can a person best manage prostate health while on TRT?


 Take zinc, keep e2 in range, keep testosterone dosages lower, cardiovascular exercise. I find high dose masteron gives me acute prostate swelling and make urination more difficult, goes away when i stop.

Cialis can relieve symptoms of BPH and also reduced inflammation. 2.5-5 mg daily.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Apologies, meant to quote overrated, must of been multitasking, thanks for the response.
> 
> What can be done about stretch marks? people have suggested babyoil, think I've past that stage, they're faded pink/white and particularly around both biceps.
> 
> Any input on how to minimise aging? I find since I've made gains, and any further gains I do make, it adds years to me.  I'm only young, but compare to pre training, I was a boy compare to now.


 Gotu kola has been shown to have positive effects on wound healing, scars, and stretch marks. It increases collagen formation. Other than that, only laser can really treat them, and it will only help with the discoloration.

Minimizing aging: don't smoke, avoid excess tanning, avoid chronic stress, do regular cardiovascular exercise, stay well-hydrated, take potent anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant supplements/foods ; pine bark extract/green tea extra/curcumin. 1-2 IU GH, unless your GH is already high. Avoid compounds like tren, they tend to mess with the look of skin. When i run tren, my face looks tired and skin looks aged, goes away when i stop.

High doses and long runs of AAS can age skin in susceptible individuals, your best bet is to stick to lower test doses+nandrolone.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Update from the guy with a 2.5k CK value.
> 
> Just got ecg results...all normal - a fit and normal heart.
> 
> HR is down to 60-65 after dropping tren e (last jab two weeks ago).
> 
> I took a week off and also did another blood test to see the CK level. I get results tomorrow for that and expect it to be lower, but the fact my ECG and heart is "normal and fit" means it must of been from training hard after a long lay off!!
> 
> At least I know my hard work was doing something!
> 
> Back on tren, t3 and EPI from tomorrow lol, 3 more weeks until holiday to drop 5-7lbs.


 Good s**t, and now you know everything is in order. Let us know that new CK level, should be great.


----------



## sponge2015

ElChapo said:


> If her training and diet are in place, 5-15 mg of anavar will do a lot. 20 mg per day is more for advanced women.
> 
> My go-to AAS for females is NPP. I can give you a formula on how to convert male doses to females' for injectables, this is based on data from female HRT specialist, the amount of endogenous testosterone females produce, and my own experience with dosing females with AAS.
> 
> Male dose÷10 = Female equivalent dosage.
> 
> Example: Male TRT is 100-200 mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate per week. Female TRT is 10-20 mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week. (Will bring most of them to the top of the natural female range for testosterone ; +50-70 ng/dL)
> 
> A 1 gram cycle for a female would be 100 mg of AAS per week with similar results & sides.
> 
> A good starter dose for a female for injectable AAS is 50 mg per week, equivalent to the basic male cycle of 500 mg per week.
> 
> Winstrol and anavar are the best orals for females, winstrol will give her a lot more bang for her buck and enhanced strength and lean tissue. I would go with winstrol at 10 mg daily for starters, focus on caloric surplus and progressive overload training. Winstrol is better than anavar in almost anyways, cheaper, and easier to find.
> 
> I would introduce her to winstrol @ 10 mg daily first, and go from there. That's how my SO started out and she was ecstatic with her results (improved recovery, energy, libido, massive increase in strength and lean tissue).
> 
> Later on, you can try NPP if you want try injectables. It's almost as mild as anavar in terms of virilization but more anabolic than test. Libido will explode, so be prepared.


 Really appreciate the detailed answer, do you think a 10mg dose of Winnie or anavar could effect fertility long term and would there be much risk of say clit enlargement, voice cracking at that dose?


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> Really appreciate the detailed answer, do you think a 10mg dose of Winnie or anavar could effect fertility long term and would there be much risk of say clit enlargement, voice cracking at that dose?


 Not likely, clit enlargement we don't know how sensitive your GF's clitoris is to AAS. Some women can blast crazy amounts and still look pretty feminine ( dana bailey) and others will virilize faster but this is dependent on compound. , dosage, and time on. 10 mg of var/winny are conservative doses and will let you assess her sensitivity.

She will likely get clitoral swelling, which will look like growth. It will go away with discontinuance, but if she stays on for a long time,there may be actual growth. Most women/men actually enjoy the larger clit as it leads to increased sensitivity and pleasure. If her voice cracks and she stops taking it, it should revert to normal but if she stays on her risk of permanent virilization increases.

(just like some men who respond like crazy to AAS while others need high doses, women are the same. It's all about androgen receptor sensitivity)


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> If her training and diet are in place, 5-15 mg of anavar will do a lot. 20 mg per day is more for advanced women.
> 
> My go-to AAS for females is NPP. I can give you a formula on how to convert male doses to females' for injectables, this is based on data from female HRT specialist, the amount of endogenous testosterone females produce, and my own experience with dosing females with AAS.
> 
> Male dose÷10 = Female equivalent dosage.
> 
> Example: Male TRT is 100-200 mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate per week. Female TRT is 10-20 mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week. (Will bring most of them to the top of the natural female range for testosterone ; +50-70 ng/dL)
> 
> A 1 gram cycle for a female would be 100 mg of AAS per week with similar results & sides.
> 
> A good starter dose for a female for injectable AAS is 50 mg per week, equivalent to the basic male cycle of 500 mg per week.
> 
> Winstrol and anavar are the best orals for females, winstrol will give her a lot more bang for her buck and enhanced strength and lean tissue. I would go with winstrol at 10 mg daily for starters, focus on caloric surplus and progressive overload training. Winstrol is better than anavar in almost anyways, cheaper, and easier to find.
> 
> I would introduce her to winstrol @ 10 mg daily first, and go from there. That's how my SO started out and she was ecstatic with her results (improved recovery, energy, libido, massive increase in strength and lean tissue).
> 
> Later on, you can try NPP if you want try injectables. It's almost as mild as anavar in terms of virilization but more anabolic than test. Libido will explode, so be prepared.


 Maybe I didn't understand that but... So...

For a woman a good dose of:

Anavar - 10mg Ed

Winstrol - 10mg Ed

NPP For a man should be 300mg so for her 30mg? Can Deca be used?

TestE for man 500mg so for her 50mg

All these inj doses will be best with injectable slin pin.

I am asking since I have a friend of mine that used 300mg Deca e10d and had very good results with little little sides (she said... Her boyfriend says the opposite....) Physically her legs and shoulders improved a lot.

How much time a cycle from these AAS (W,Anavar,NPP) should last for a woman? Do they need PCT?


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> High dose test and deca and even low dose tren will rape your cholesterol.
> 
> 200 mg tren ace dropped my HDL very low, very fast. I usually have very high HDL. The GH is overkill.
> 
> You can't be in this game for monster size and not tangle with health problems, you are going to have have trashed lipids to get anywhere in this game, the best you can do is control your BP and keep up cardio training while you blast.
> 
> If you are advanced and know what you are doing, 1 gram test, 1 gram tren, 700 mg winstrol per week + GH/slin.
> 
> You will grow big, strong, dry and lean, i can't guaranteed no heart attack obviously.
> 
> Without good training and diet, this will do s**t for the risk you put your physical and mental health through, so make it count and don't train like a vagina like most bodybuilders.


 Aight mate I always put max effort In weight lifting and I want to blast on that cycle ok, maybe I will just start with lower safer dose blast 8w 600 TestE 600 TrenE 350+ W hgh+slin then cruise a month and restart with an higher dose or same of results were ok.

I always do cardio on offseason min 30mins X3 a week.

I 4x-5x workouts a week 45-60mins high intensity, always reaching high heart rate, 1-1.5 min rest.

6 omega3 pills are always in.

Food is always clean. I avoid McDonald and cook everything on my own.

Very good I think I won't have any issues then.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Maybe I didn't understand that but... So...
> 
> For a woman a good dose of:
> 
> Anavar - 10mg Ed
> 
> Winstrol - 10mg Ed
> 
> NPP For a man should be 300mg so for her 30mg? Can Deca be used?
> 
> TestE for man 500mg so for her 50mg
> 
> All these inj doses will be best with injectable slin pin.
> 
> I am asking since I have a friend of mine that used 300mg Deca e10d and had very good results with little little sides (she said... Her boyfriend says the opposite....) Physically her legs and shoulders improved a lot.
> 
> How much time a cycle from these AAS (W,Anavar,NPP) should last for a woman? Do they need PCT?


 Yes to all the above, and 300 mg is a ridiculous dose for a female, so she is lucky if her sides are minimal, or she doesnt virilize alot, or deca was underdosed.

unless she's going for a certain look : Dana bailey/etc.

A male TRT dose is 150 mg/transexual female to male dosage.

Luckily, deca is less androgenic than testosterone.

Women don't need PCT, cycle would be as long a males.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Aight mate I always put max effort In weight lifting and I want to blast on that cycle ok, maybe I will just start with lower safer dose blast 8w 600 TestE 600 TrenE 350+ W hgh+slin then cruise a month and restart with an higher dose or same of results were ok.
> 
> I always do cardio on offseason min 30mins X3 a week.
> 
> I 4x-5x workouts a week 45-60mins high intensity, always reaching high heart rate, 1-1.5 min rest.
> 
> 6 omega3 pills are always in.
> 
> Food is always clean. I avoid McDonald and cook everything on my own.
> 
> Very good I think I won't have any issues then.


 You will be fine, don't overthink it.


----------



## superdrol

Right I've taken my blood pressure several times over the last week and it's generally 130-138/68-70, what does this mean and aside from adding in cardio is there anything I can do/take to reduce this, I already take hawthorn berry daily and have just finished a run of 40mg dbol with 400mg tudca daily alongside 600mg test 400

i understand this puts me just shy of being not so healthy and wish to do something about it, I am also going to lose some fat and drop body fat, currently I'm 200lb 22% and 182.4cm tall


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Right I've taken my blood pressure several times over the last week and it's generally 130-138/68-70, what does this mean and aside from adding in cardio is there anything I can do/take to reduce this, I already take hawthorn berry daily and have just finished a run of 40mg dbol with 400mg tudca daily alongside 600mg test 400
> 
> i understand this puts me just shy of being not so healthy and wish to do something about it, I am also going to lose some fat and drop body fat, currently I'm 200lb 22% and 182.4cm tall


 Cardio may it bring systolic down to 120-125, your diastolic (bottom number) is perfect. Supplement with 500 mg of pine bark extract as well.

If your BP is just that high coming off cycle, you should be fine since it should be much lower once the AAS leaves your body.

Honestly though, 130/70 long-term is perfectly fine. If you lose fat and up cardio i am sure you will get under 125 systolic.


----------



## superdrol

I'm still on the test sorry, the dbol is what I've just come off a few weeks back, I'm currently still on the test for the foreseeable future, ill cardio and see what gives, pulse is also around 78-82

from memory i sat around 125/75 normally without aas in the mix and after a few months off work

thankyou again :thumbup1:



ElChapo said:


> Cardio may it bring systolic down to 120-125, your diastolic (bottom number) is perfect. Supplement with 500 mg of pine bark extract as well.
> 
> If your BP is just that high coming off cycle, you should be fine since it should be much lower once the AAS leaves your body.
> 
> Honestly though, 130/70 long-term is perfectly fine.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I'm still on the test sorry, the dbol is what I've just come off a few weeks back, I'm currently still on the test for the foreseeable future, ill cardio and see what gives, pulse is also around 78-82
> 
> from memory i sat around 125/75 normally without aas in the mix and after a few months off work
> 
> thankyou again :thumbup1:


 No problem, levels look good on test. What dose are you on? It might keep going down if the dbol is still in your system.


----------



## superdrol

600mg which is a blend of enth, deca, cyp esters from memory, dbol was done a few weeks back, weight has just settled after losing a kg or so of water and I'm now 8 weeks in and 8kg up, another 8-10 weeks to go and push the cals, then a dnp course and drop some bodyfat starting at 2250-2500 calories and see what happens for the big reveal of what I've done (in all seriousness I've been 20-25% all my life since teens I reckon) I have no clue where I'm at now as extra muscle obviously drops percentage with fat staying the same or dropping a fraction and weight going up

i have an owed deca scan (I paid for two at once for discount) I may take it before dnp and do a compare the scans effort and pay for a second after dnp water weight has gone



ElChapo said:


> No problem, levels look good on test. What dose are you on? It might keep going down if the dbol is still in your system.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> 600mg which is a blend of enth, deca, cyp esters from memory, dbol was done a few weeks back, weight has just settled after losing a kg or so of water and I'm now 8 weeks in and 8kg up, another 8-10 weeks to go and push the cals, then a dnp course and drop some bodyfat starting at 2250-2500 calories and see what happens for the big reveal of what I've done (in all seriousness I've been 20-25% all my life since teens I reckon) I have no clue where I'm at now as extra muscle obviously drops percentage with fat staying the same or dropping a fraction and weight going up
> 
> i have an owed deca scan (I paid for two at once for discount) I may take it before dnp and do a compare the scans effort and pay for a second after dnp water weight has gone


 Your BP is awesome for being on 600 mg test, good stuff.

Go for the fat loss like you are planning, you will look and feel 200% better and it will do a lot for your overall health.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

hi mate

i get on really well with tren, in the sense I have bascially 0 sides at 150mg test and 300-400g tren e. I don't need any AI or caber etc.

cholesterol gets wrecked and BP/HR go up ofc but nothing else.

Is there any point in me even trying other forms on injectable? Deca/equi for instance, seeing as I want to stay leanish for most of the year and generally feel like a god on tren mentally.

Planning my winter bulk after a nice 10-12 week cruise.

Leaning towards 150mg test 400mg tren 20mg SD.

The only thing making me want to try deca is I have suffered shoulder issues over the years and I know it helps (albeit temporary?).

If tren is the undisputed king might as well use that for everything and adapting training/diet to current goal?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hi mate
> 
> i get on really well with tren, in the sense I have bascially 0 sides at 150mg test and 300-400g tren e. I don't need any AI or caber etc.
> 
> cholesterol gets wrecked and BP/HR go up ofc but nothing else.
> 
> Is there any point in me even trying other forms on injectable? Deca/equi for instance, seeing as I want to stay leanish for most of the year and generally feel like a god on tren mentally.
> 
> Planning my winter bulk after a nice 10-12 week cruise.
> 
> Leaning towards 150mg test 400mg tren 20mg SD.
> 
> The only thing making me want to try deca is I have suffered shoulder issues over the years and I know it helps (albeit temporary?).
> 
> If tren is the undisputed king might as well use that for everything and adapting training/diet to current goal?


 Yeah, training/diet will dictate results, if you truly plateau with diet/training on point, increasing dose of either test or tren will do the trick.

You can throw deca in at 200-300 mg for the joint effect and it will add a bit more anabolic effect.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo I'm on T3 and planning 4 weeks to 50mcg/day, how long does thyroid take to come back to normal?

Is it better taper down or stop it?

Thanks


----------



## superdrol

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo I'm on T3 and planning 4 weeks to 50mcg/day, how long does thyroid take to come back to normal?
> 
> Is it better taper down or stop it?
> 
> Thanks


 Stop it asap is the conventional rule as by tapering down the thyroid still sees exogenous t3 and won't start producing its own t3 until you finish so your prolonging it staying off so to speak, interested to see if el chapo agrees??


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Good s**t, and now you know everything is in order. Let us know that new CK level, should be great.


 CK level came back at 501 from the over two thousand from 4 days of non-training.

I think I can safely assume that it would have went down even further had I given it more time.

So all good 

my cholestrol is shot tho... Hdl 0.43 and ldl 2.6 lol

any good supps to help?


----------



## invisiblekid

@ElChapo - fertility and recovery are important to me being 35 and potentially wanting kids. I'm currently cycle/blast & cruising without HCG - which I'm going to address as you suggested.

My question is, would say doing 18 months on blast/cruise and 6 months off (or as long as it took for bloods to look good), over say a 24-26 month period be worthwhile? Would this do anything to preserve fertility or enable my ability to recover or is it basically pointless? Obviously I'm aware recovery will be much more difficult and nothing is guaranteed, but would periodisation be a worthwhile consideration?

Many Thanks.


----------



## spardaa

Hey mate, I'm gonna be taking your advice. After some time off training due to a torn tricep I'm gonna just cruise/cut on 300mg test and add T3/EC whilst dieting to a reasonable level of leaness. I'll then bulk using 3ml of Test, 3ml of Tren and 50mg winny everday. Will most likely cycle my training with some dbol too cus i respond well to that. Haven't tried GH/slin before but Ill go as per your suggestion of 10iu GH a day. I guess my question is:

1 - You mentioned to take slin with GH but how much and when? I was thinking 10iu GH and 20iu slin with post workout meal (whey and cereal consisting of about 60g Protein and 80-100g carbs).

2 - Is it essential to have short acting slin or can I just shoot some lantus along side my GH in the morning? So same dosages as in 1 but instead we do the Lantus and GH in AM before work

3 - Thoughts on bubble gut? Is stomac distention caused by the slin as people say? And how can we avoid/minimise it? Will it go down once slin is stopped.

4 - kind of a vage question but which would be better. Push/Pull/Legs twice a week and one days rest, or Upper/lower three times a week and one days rest? Obivously one has more frequency but volume will have to be adjusted resectively. I guess the question is : Even if total volume per week is lower, is the fact that we can get in the gym and stimulate the muscle three times as apposed to two better? I guess this is assuming one can recover from such frequency (shouldn't be an issue with the cycle above lol) and also that we can still progress each workout even though their so often.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo I'm on T3 and planning 4 weeks to 50mcg/day, how long does thyroid take to come back to normal?
> 
> Is it better taper down or stop it?
> 
> Thanks


 4 weeks won't do much. Should at do 6-8 weeks minimum. T3 is best for preventing metabolic slow down in prolonged dieting, as a standalone fatburner, it's not that good.

Just stop, thyroid comes back in about 4 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> CK level came back at 501 from the over two thousand from 4 days of non-training.
> 
> I think I can safely assume that it would have went down even further had I given it more time.
> 
> So all good
> 
> my cholestrol is shot tho... Hdl 0.43 and ldl 2.6 lol
> 
> any good supps to help?


 Don't worry about the cholesterol, there's nothing you can take, but limit your time on the cycle so the cholesterol isn't like that year round.

Lipids will go back to normal in 4-8 weeks once you drop the harsher compounds.


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> @ElChapo - fertility and recovery are important to me being 35 and potentially wanting kids. I'm currently cycle/blast & cruising without HCG - which I'm going to address as you suggested.
> 
> My question is, would say doing 18 months on blast/cruise and 6 months off (or as long as it took for bloods to look good), over say a 24-26 month period be worthwhile? Would this do anything to preserve fertility or enable my ability to recover or is it basically pointless? Obviously I'm aware recovery will be much more difficult and nothing is guaranteed, but would periodisation be a worthwhile consideration?
> 
> Many Thanks.


 It will take about 6 months off for your body to start recovering. You can come off and run clomiphene until you have the baby, if you don't want kids now, i would not take the year off yet, if at all.

Just use HCG and TRT for a break, and when you are ready to have kids, you can try for it while on hcg+TRT or clomid monotherapy.

Coming off a blast and cruise completely is going to badly affect your quality of life and health due to loe testosterone. If you are going to blast and cruise, it's for life. The long term exposure to AAS almost guarantees permanent shutdown.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> 4 weeks won't do much. Should at do 6-8 weeks minimum.
> 
> Just stop, thyroid comes back in about 4 weeks.


 Ok I will cover 8 weeks. In 4 weeks without T3, I suppose that metabolism will be very slow, any advise to fight that state?


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Hey mate, I'm gonna be taking your advice. After some time off training due to a torn tricep I'm gonna just cruise/cut on 300mg test and add T3/EC whilst dieting to a reasonable level of leaness. I'll then bulk using 3ml of Test, 3ml of Tren and 50mg winny everday. Will most likely cycle my training with some dbol too cus i respond well to that. Haven't tried GH/slin before but Ill go as per your suggestion of 10iu GH a day. I guess my question is:
> 
> 1 - You mentioned to take slin with GH but how much and when? I was thinking 10iu GH and 20iu slin with post workout meal (whey and cereal consisting of about 60g Protein and 80-100g carbs).
> 
> 2 - Is it essential to have short acting slin or can I just shoot some lantus along side my GH in the morning? So same dosages as in 1 but instead we do the Lantus and GH in AM before work
> 
> 3 - Thoughts on bubble gut? Is stomac distention caused by the slin as people say? And how can we avoid/minimise it? Will it go down once slin is stopped.
> 
> 4 - kind of a vage question but which would be better. Push/Pull/Legs twice a week and one days rest, or Upper/lower three times a week and one days rest? Obivously one has more frequency but volume will have to be adjusted resectively. I guess the question is : Even if total volume per week is lower, is the fact that we can get in the gym and stimulate the muscle three times as apposed to two better? I guess this is assuming one can recover from such frequency (shouldn't be an issue with the cycle above lol) and also that we can still progress each workout even though their so often.


 Look up a basic insulin protocol and run with the lower dosage to assess tolerance to insulin.

Rapid acting is better

Gut distention will happen when running GH/insulin high, don't mess with it if that's an issue. Time on+dose = higher risk. Most mass monsters have the gut, you can get very good at vacuuming it, but it takes practice and a well-conditionined transverse abdominus (muscle you use for vacuums)

In terms of training, your #1 priority is to increase the weight you are lifting, as often as possible with GOOD form, and hit every muscle group x 2 per week, x 3 per week for lagging muscles. The routine doesn't matter. You MUST be in a caloric surplus, always count your calories. No surplus = suboptimal muscle growth if any at all.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Ok I will cover 8 weeks. In 4 weeks without T3, I suppose that metabolism will be very slow, any advise to fight that state?


 4 weeks of dieting will usually not affect metabolism that quickly unless the deficit is very harsh.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> 4 weeks of dieting will usually not affect metabolism that quickly unless the deficit is very harsh.


 Well, then thyroid will be back to normal value in that 4 weeks, right?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

I have some caber which should be arriving in the next day or two and wanted your advice on how to incorporate this into my gyno reduction protocol, which is... 0.5 adex eod - 20mg nolva ed (been using nolva for 16 days), current cycle... test/tren/mast (300/200/400), will be starting winn at 50mg next week.

I know you said I should give this time to work, but sex drive is barely there and read caber can give it a boost.

Also if my gyno is flaring up due to a rise in prolactin from the tren then wouldn't caber be a good addition to reduce it?

I read different views on this, some say even if e2 is kept in check, tren can cause prolactin based gyno, others say the opposite.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Well, then thyroid will be back to normal value in that 4 weeks, right?


 Just about, will vary person by person.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> I have some caber which should be arriving in the next day or two and wanted your advice on how to incorporate this into my gyno reduction protocol, which is... 0.5 adex eod - 20mg nolva ed (been using nolva for 16 days), current cycle... test/tren/mast (300/200/400), will be starting winn at 50mg next week.
> 
> I know you said I should give this time to work, but sex drive is barely there and read caber can give it a boost.
> 
> Also if my gyno is flaring up due to a rise in prolactin from the tren then wouldn't caber be a good addition to reduce it?
> 
> I read different views on this, some say even if e2 is kept in check, tren can cause prolactin based gyno, others say the opposite.


 Cabergoline won't do anything for gyno if it's not prolactin induced. 19nors do not increase prolactin.

Caber can help with sex drive by boosting dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain/body and lowering prolactin.

Tren can cause gyno with zero E2 in the body. Trenbolone can bind to androgen/progesterone/estrogen receptors in the body. Nolva/raloxifene will reverse ANY kind of gyno, i guarantee it. Run it for 12 weeks, you should start seeing improvement in 4-6 weeks. 12 weeks should be enough to reverse it completely unless it's really bad.

If it's new gyno, 4 weeks might enough to eliminate it. I have a lot of experience with this and have reversed gyno 100% many times.


----------



## babyarm

@ElChapo if someone can have kids before they use AAS can they ever become infertile after steroid use? Or does it sometimes makes it more difficult but not impossible.


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> @ElChapo if someone can have kids before they use AAS can they ever become infertile after steroid use? Or does it sometimes makes it more difficult but not impossible.


 You never know but AAS use CAN lead to permanent sterility.

It's a person by person thing.


----------



## babyarm

ElChapo said:


> You never know but AAS use CAN lead to permanent sterility.
> 
> It's a person by person thing.


 Cool. But if that were to happen would it be after years of heavy abuse or could it just happen after one or 2 cycles?


----------



## ElChapo

babyarm said:


> Cool. But if that were to happen would it be after years of heavy abuse or could it just happen after one or 2 cycles?


 It could happen in 1 or 2 cycles(unlikely) while some guys can knock up their wives/gf while ON a gram of tren (happened to me). It's just too person specific to say. Nothing is set in stone.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> It could happen in 1 or 2 cycles(unlikely) while some guys can knock up their wives/gf while ON a gram of tren (happened to me). It's just too person specific to say. Nothing is set in stone.


 so seems like HCG should be included in all cycles as sensible addition, .... unless you are 100% sure you are never having kids


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> so seems like HCG should be included in all cycles as sensible addition, .... unless you are 100% sure you are never having kids


 Pretty much, if you want to maximize the chance of preserving fertility or recovering endogenous production.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo I'm on cruise at moment, and never used HCG (I have kids), balls are in normal size, should I use it or only if I see changing in balls size (shrink)?


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo I'm on cruise at moment, and never used HCG (I have kids), balls are in normal size, should I use it or only if I see changing in balls size (shrink)?


 What are your goals?


----------



## Sasnak

Hey @ElChapo

I have had a full blood panel recently and my cholesterol levels are monitored by the NHS.

I am going to get pre cycle bloods done but I am wondering if it is worth getting anything other than a testosterone and oestradiol test. Many talk about getting fsh and lh but I'm wondering what benefit this would have. I have children and have had a vasectomy thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> Hey @ElChapo
> 
> I have had a full blood panel recently and my cholesterol levels are monitored by the NHS.
> 
> I am going to get pre cycle bloods done but I am wondering if it is worth getting anything other than a testosterone and oestradiol test. Many talk about getting fsh and lh but I'm wondering what benefit this would have. I have children and have had a vasectomy thanks


 No reason to get LH/FSH, unless testosterone comes back low, because then you can pinpoint wether your primary(testicular failure) or secondary(pituitary) hypogonadal.

Get a CBC(For HCT/RBC) , lipid(cholesterol) and metabolic panel(liver/kidneys)

It's a great idea to always get pre-cycle bloodwork so that you know your baseline testosterone levels, then you can gauge recovery/shutdown post-cycle.

Always get your blood drawn as early as possible in the morning on an empty stomach (no coffee or food). Testosterone levels peak between 5 am-8 am and go down as much as 30% by the afternoon. Eating will also lower testosterone levels.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> What are your goals?


 Now I'm cutting and I would like to achieve 10% bodyfat, from there B&C remaining below 10%. Kids are not an issue.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Now I'm cutting and I would like to achieve 10% bodyfat, from there B&C remaining below 10%. Kids are not an issue.


 If kids are not an issue, you don't need HCG. There is no need.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Caber can help with sex drive by boosting dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain/body and lowering prolactin.
> 
> Nolva/raloxifene will reverse ANY kind of gyno, i guarantee it. Run it for 12 weeks, you should start seeing improvement in 4-6 week . 12 weeks should be enough to reverse it completely unless it's really bad.


 Just out of interest - if you use to much caber on 19nors and drove prolactin down to near 0, in the short term is there any damage or bad sides that can be caused? For example, low E2 can play havoc on libido, joints etc - can low prolactin also have some traits?

If using nolva to reverse gyno, what mg ED would you recommend to use? 20/40 etc?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Just out of interest - if you use to much caber on 19nors and drove prolactin down to near 0, in the short term is there any damage or bad sides that can be caused? For example, low E2 can play havoc on libido, joints etc - can low prolactin also have some traits?
> 
> If using nolva to reverse gyno, what mg ED would you recommend to use? 20/40 etc?


 Possibly premature ejaculation/anxiety

20 mg daily


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Cabergoline won't do anything for gyno if it's not prolactin induced. 19nors do not increase prolactin.
> 
> Caber can help with sex drive by boosting dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain/body and lowering prolactin.
> 
> Tren can cause gyno with zero E2 in the body. Trenbolone can bind to androgen/progesterone/estrogen receptors in the body. Nolva/raloxifene will reverse ANY kind of gyno, i guarantee it. Run it for 12 weeks, you should start seeing improvement in 4-6 weeks. 12 weeks should be enough to reverse it completely unless it's really bad.
> 
> If it's new gyno, 4 weeks might enough to eliminate it. I have a lot of experience with this and have reversed gyno 100% many times.


 So just give the ai and serm time to work and best save caber for another time?

Bet i sound like a broken record with my gyno hahaha

Picture on the left was today, tbf it does look worse there than normal. Picture on the right was friday post wo. Seems to flare up certain times of the day.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> So just give the ai and serm time to work and best save caber for another time?
> 
> Bet i sound like a broken record with my gyno hahaha
> 
> Picture on the left was today, tbf it does look worse there than normal. Picture on the right was friday post wo. Seems to flare up certain times of the day.
> 
> View attachment 143224


 That's normal, it will tighten up sometimes, especially when it's cold and almost dissappears. Run the raloxifene 60 mg daily, it will go away i'm sure. Yours isnt too bad at all.


----------



## MarkyMark

youarewhatyoueat said:


> So just give the ai and serm time to work and best save caber for another time?
> 
> Bet i sound like a broken record with my gyno hahaha
> 
> Picture on the left was today, tbf it does look worse there than normal. Picture on the right was friday post wo. Seems to flare up certain times of the day.
> 
> View attachment 143224


 Do you have a lump behind both nipples or is it more so puffiness?

LIke ElChapo said it's not bad and to be honest no one would notice that but I guess it needs to be controlled to ensure it don't get worse.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

MarkyMark said:


> Do you have a lump behind both nipples or is it more so puffiness?
> 
> LIke ElChapo said it's not bad and to be honest no one would notice that but I guess it needs to be controlled to ensure it don't get worse.


 They are more puffy than anything (water/fat)... There's a TINY (half a pea size) squidgy like lump underneath both nips (left more prominent), although the right one has only come about since tren. Tbf the puffyness has subsidised the last few days.

I must have some type of pubertal gyno as the left was slightly puffy even wen i was natty... only noticed when i was between 4/6% bf tho.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> That's normal, it will tighten up sometimes, especially when it's cold and almost dissappears. Run the raloxifene 60 mg daily, it will go away i'm sure. Yours isnt too bad at all.


 Still waiting for my sources to restock ralox, i must check 3 times aday lol

Going off the pictures I'm assuming i should see a good reduction in 6/8 weeks?

Other than this side I'm enjoying my run on tren (200mg pw), sweats etc dont bother me, would a slight increase taking it to 250/300mg pw be asking for trouble? (Gyno wise) or maybe increase the mast from 400 to 600? Think I've got a nice little sweet spot with test so sticking.

Winn is being incorporated for 10 weeks at 50mg next week so am i being alittle too greedy?


----------



## Jonk891

My next cycle will be 250mg of test enth e4d for 15 weeks. I want to run aromasin this time instead of adex what would be the best dose to go with.

I plan to run hcg as well during the cycle does 500 mcg e4d sound right ?


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Still waiting for my sources to restock ralox, i must check 3 times aday lol
> 
> Going off the pictures I'm assuming i should see a good reduction in 6/8 weeks?
> 
> Other than this side I'm enjoying my run on tren (200mg pw), sweats etc dont bother me, would a slight increase taking it to 250/300mg pw be asking for trouble? (Gyno wise) or maybe increase the mast from 400 to 600? Think I've got a nice little sweet spot with test so sticking.
> 
> Winn is being incorporated for 10 weeks at 50mg next week so am i being alittle too greedy?


 Indian pharma is also an option, but local source would ship much quicker. Indian pharma takes 2-3 weeks to get to me usually.

Tren ace or e? Over 300 mg of ace per week gives me gyno flare ups, which is not an issue cause i can reverse it with ralox. Tolerance will be an individual thing. You don't have to worry about gyno when you can reverse it.

People have no idea how effective raloxifene is because they think it doesn't work when their gyno doesn't go away in three days.

200-300 mg per week tren ace is the sweet spot where gains/sides ratios are good.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> My next cycle will be 250mg of test enth e4d for 15 weeks. I want to run aromasin this time instead of adex what would be the best dose to go with.
> 
> I plan to run hcg as well during the cycle does 500 mcg e4d sound right ?


 Do 300-600 mg per week total per week. Split E3.5D or once per week.

500-1,000*IU E3D.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Cabergoline won't do anything for gyno if it's not prolactin induced. 19nors do not increase prolactin.
> 
> Caber can help with sex drive by boosting dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain/body and lowering prolactin.
> 
> Tren can cause gyno with zero E2 in the body. Trenbolone can bind to androgen/progesterone/estrogen receptors in the body. Nolva/raloxifene will reverse ANY kind of gyno, i guarantee it. Run it for 12 weeks, you should start seeing improvement in 4-6 weeks. 12 weeks should be enough to reverse it completely unless it's really bad.
> 
> If it's new gyno, 4 weeks might enough to eliminate it. I have a lot of experience with this and have reversed gyno 100% many times.


 I will buy Raloxifene at pharmacy tomorrow since even if I am with no Test (Primo Tren Mast), have little lumps under my right nipple....

I am pretty sure that my Primo is real Primo...

Regarding your statement about 19nors and prolactine I am starting being pretty sure of that since Jumex/Deprenyl, Dostinex just lower Tren mental sides...

Have a friend that always blasts with Raloxifene since he says that's better to be safe...


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I will buy Raloxifene at pharmacy tomorrow since even if I am with no Test (Primo Tren Mast), have little lumps under my right nipple....
> 
> I am pretty sure that my Primo is real Primo...
> 
> Regarding your statement about 19nors and prolactine I am starting being pretty sure of that since Jumex/Deprenyl, Dostinex just lower Tren mental sides...
> 
> Have a friend that always blasts with Raloxifene since he says that's better to be safe...


 Tren doesn't need estrogen to cause gyno. Tren can bind to E2 receptors itself.

Yes, dopamine agonists can mitigate the negative mental sides of 19nors. Increasing dopamine = you feel good. This does not mean you have high prolactin.


----------



## SlinMeister

What do you think about Deca Vs EQ?

A friend of mine says that since I am 182cm I will need Deca to fill out nicely.

Test Tren Deca Winstrol mhhhh horny cycle <3


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Indian pharma is also an option, but local source would ship much quicker. Indian pharma takes 2-3 weeks to get to me usually.
> 
> Tren ace or e? Over 300 mg of ace per week gives me gyno flare ups, which is not an issue cause i can reverse it with ralox. Tolerance will be an individual thing. You don't have to worry about gyno when you can reverse it.
> 
> People have no idea how effective raloxifene is because they think it doesn't work when their gyno doesn't go away in three days.
> 
> 200-300 mg per week tren ace is the sweet spot where gains/sides ratios are good.


 Sorry i should mentioned running all long esters.

Ralox sounds like its going to be a staple in every stack from now on.

Looks like I'll be increasing my tren dose.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Sorry i should mentioned running all long esters.
> 
> Ralox sounds like its going to be a staple in every stack from now on.
> 
> Looks like I'll be increasing my tren dose.


 300 mg-1 g tren e is the best range. I don't get any gyno from tren E even at higher doses. Only ace does it for me.

If you are prone to gyno, you can run it at 60 mg, or you can wait until the end of the cycle and run it on cruise or PCT to reverse the gyno.

Yeah, you can definitely bump up the tren. 300 mg of tren E is my minimum recommendation unless you are cruising on it.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

SlinMeister said:


> I will buy Raloxifene at pharmacy tomorrow


 Are you not from the uk?


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Do 300-600 mg per week total per week. Split E3.5D or once per week.
> 
> 500-1,000*IU E3D.


 E3D for the aromasin ? What dose would be the best to go with.

The test enth I plan to run at 250mg E4D so that works out 500mg over 8 days.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> E3D for the aromasin ? What dose would be the best to go with.
> 
> The test enth I plan to run at 250mg E4D so that works out 500mg over 8 days.


 Aromasin, you can start at 12.5-25 mg x 2-3 pw. It will depend on how much you aromatize.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> What do you think about Deca Vs EQ?
> 
> A friend of mine says that since I am 182cm I will need Deca to fill out nicely.
> 
> Test Tren Deca Winstrol mhhhh horny cycle <3


 Deca takes less for more results typically. EQ is dryer, less joint and strength benefits.

If you are taller, you need FOOD to fill out your frame, not specific steroids.


----------



## cell-tech

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Still waiting for my sources to restock ralox, i must check 3 times aday lol
> 
> Going off the pictures I'm assuming i should see a good reduction in 6/8 weeks?
> 
> Other than this side I'm enjoying my run on tren (200mg pw), sweats etc dont bother me, would a slight increase taking it to 250/300mg pw be asking for trouble? (Gyno wise) or maybe increase the mast from 400 to 600? Think I've got a nice little sweet spot with test so sticking.
> 
> Winn is being incorporated for 10 weeks at 50mg next week so am i being alittle too greedy?


 Feel your pain lol, I emailed them asking when its back in stock and they said not sure but hopefully soon.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Indian pharma is also an option, but local source would ship much quicker. Indian pharma takes 2-3 weeks to get to me usually.
> 
> Tren ace or e? Over 300 mg of ace per week gives me gyno flare ups, which is not an issue cause i can reverse it with ralox. Tolerance will be an individual thing. You don't have to worry about gyno when you can reverse it.
> 
> People have no idea how effective raloxifene is because they think it doesn't work when their gyno doesn't go away in three days.
> 
> 200-300 mg per week tren ace is the sweet spot where gains/sides ratios are good.


 Which Indian pharma you prefer mate?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

cell-tech said:


> Feel your pain lol, I emailed them asking when its back in stock and they said not sure but hopefully soon.


 Yeah that's what he said waiting for it to come from China.

Thats why i look everyday, its gonna go like hot cakes lol


----------



## Doitagain

Any experience with Triptorelin to restart the HPTA after a very long time ON?


----------



## dbol Kid

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Yeah that's what he said waiting for it to come from China.
> 
> Thats why i look everyday, its gonna go like hot cakes lol


 it does look like it will sell out fast lol

same with ephadrine, been waiting for that for a while


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

dbol Kid said:


> it does look like it will sell out fast lol
> 
> same with ephadrine, been waiting for that for a while


 There the exact two im waiting for aswell lol


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapoI dont take casein whey anymore because I read many studies about cancer and casein link. Whats your opinion about ?


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Aromasin, you can start at 12.5-25 mg x 2-3 pw. It will depend on how much you aromatize.


 Ill go with 12.5mg 3x a week and alter from there if needed.

Would you say aromasin is a better choice over adex


----------



## gazzamongo

Birthday coming up so treating myself to some noob level test ( I'll be 50 , so natural levels are not fantastic at this point ) . Been dieting hard (natty) since Xmas to get bodyfat somewhere into the teens before I start the aas . I'll be doing a few weeks at a replacement dose to see how I feel in an optimal Normal ish range ( so 150 test enanthate per week ) while I diet down a little further. Then want to bump to 300 a week and see if I'm ok with that without needing ai ( I want to minimise cholesterol ****ery... ) . I'm slightly conscious of clotting as my father had a minor stroke once into his 70's ( even though I take after my mother's family genetically and no such problems there ) . I eat and live a healthier life than pops but what do you think about nattokinase to help prevent blood clots ( I'll start giving blood too and MORE CARDIO as I sense you're a fan of that ) . I use topical magnesium , K2 , curcumin , coq10 etc ( got Cialis on the way ) .plant based ( covers ears , chorus of boo's ) , no reccies , no junk. I do fortitude training and on rest days hiit or long walks with the doggo . I'll be cycling low for 12 weeks then trt 6 or so as at this stage I want to gain , maintain and stave off old age decrepitude rather than mess about with pct and a mood roller coaster. Sound






like I'm on the right track?


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

I posted last week in relation to my right nipple feeling sensitive and worrying it could be gyno at the time I said there is no lump I can feel however I have since managed to find a very small mass I belive. if I pinch my nipple with my index finger and thumb and firmly squeeze while massaging in a circular motion, I can feel a very small hard lump directly behind the nipple, almost like a small shard of glass roughly half the size of a rice grain (possibly smaller). This also sets off the same sharp pain I feel when pressing on my nipple.

The lump is hard, and almost feels like the density of a stone, it is not squeegee or fat and my nipples are to my eyes no puffer or bigger then before I ever used aas. The pain I am getting is as if there is a very small embedded shard of glass behind the nipple, when I squeeze my nipple while holding onto this small lump it is a very sharp cutting pain.

Is this the onset of gyno and the continued use of AAS will slowly make this lump bigger?

Also you say you reverse gyno every time you finish a Tren blast with rolaxefine. Do you mean to the point where there is no longer a lump what so ever behind the nipple? Or down to a size where it does not show visually looking at the nipple?

Im using nolva at the moment and upped the AI as a precaution for a few weeks now but the sensitivity is still there - now the lump is present will It always be sensitive to touch when using firm pressure?


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Which Indian pharma you prefer mate?


 Not sure what source rules are on this board.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Any experience with Triptorelin to restart the HPTA after a very long time ON?


 How long are we talking here?


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapoI dont take casein whey anymore because I read many studies about cancer and casein link. Whats your opinion about ?


 Horseshit.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Ill go with 12.5mg 3x a week and alter from there if needed.
> 
> Would you say aromasin is a better choice over adex


 They both do the trick, aromasin i would dose at minimum twice a week but some get away with once weekly dosing.

They will both do the trick, some people will tell you aromasin is better for lipid profile etc. Honestly, the difference is negligible as long as you don't nuke E2 with either AI.

Adex tends to be very effective, easy to find, and cheaper than aromasin. You can try them both and see what works best or go with whatever you have easiest access to.

Even letrozole can be used as an effective AI, i myself have used it and others have success with it as well.


----------



## ElChapo

gazzamongo said:


> Birthday coming up so treating myself to some noob level test ( I'll be 50 , so natural levels are not fantastic at this point ) . Been dieting hard (natty) since Xmas to get bodyfat somewhere into the teens before I start the aas . I'll be doing a few weeks at a replacement dose to see how I feel in an optimal Normal ish range ( so 150 test enanthate per week ) while I diet down a little further. Then want to bump to 300 a week and see if I'm ok with that without needing ai ( I want to minimise cholesterol ****ery... ) . I'm slightly conscious of clotting as my father had a minor stroke once into his 70's ( even though I take after my mother's family genetically and no such problems there ) . I eat and live a healthier life than pops but what do you think about nattokinase to help prevent blood clots ( I'll start giving blood too and MORE CARDIO as I sense you're a fan of that ) . I use topical magnesium , K2 , curcumin , coq10 etc ( got Cialis on the way ) .plant based ( covers ears , chorus of boo's ) , no reccies , no junk. I do fortitude training and on rest days hiit or long walks with the doggo . I'll be cycling low for 12 weeks then trt 6 or so as at this stage I want to gain , maintain and stave off old age decrepitude rather than mess about with pct and a mood roller coaster. Sound
> View attachment 143253
> like I'm on the right track?


 Your supplement stack is solid, and exercise is without a doubt the most potent and effective supplement/medicine for health.

It will typically takes 4-6 weeks to feel the mental and libido effects of any change in testosterone levels. 12 weeks to really see a difference in body composition, so base your trial of 150 mg per week on those numbers and go from there. 300 mg is ideal for body composition and performance without adversely affecting blood work, health markers and causing excess water retention in most people. E2 will also be easier to manage.

You are definitely on the right track, gains will come from progressive overload, caloric surplus and enough rest between workouts. Everything looks great.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Not sure what source rules are on this board.


 You can name the pharmas. No sources no prices.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> How long are we talking here?


 Years. With intermittent HCG use.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> You can name the pharmas. No sources no prices.


 Ah, you mean the brands? Natco Xtane(aromasin) i've confirmed with blood work. Cipla's ralox and cialis has been effective as well. Those are the ones off the top of my head, but anything i've order from the big/well-known indian pharma sites has been good to go.

If i need something fast, i go through a domestic UGL(for pharma grade ancillaries) or a guy i know who has access to USA pharma HGH(+$700 USD per kit) and ancillaries.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Years. With intermittent HCG use.


 If you have access to it, it's worth a shot at 100 mcg. If it doesn't work , proceed with clomiphene/nolvadex pct and go from there. If you have been using hcg, this will increase your chances of recovery.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Ah, you mean the brands? Natco Xtane(aromasin) i've confirmed with blood work. Cipla's ralox and cialis has been effective as well. Those are the ones off the top of my head, but anything i've order from the big/well-known indian pharma sites has been good to go.
> 
> If i need something fast, i go through a domestic UGL(for pharma grade ancillaries) or a guy i know who has access to USA pharma HGH(+$700 USD per kit) and ancillaries.


 Ahhh. Ancillaries are available OTC here in India from thousands of pharma. I thought you were referring to AAS compounds. Though, we even have test, Deca and Winny at OTC.

Can aromasin be taken once a week if someone is taking E7d?


----------



## GeeHFifteen

@ElChapo
Is there a chance that oil inside of a muscle can cause scar tissue or is it only the penetration of the muscle caused by the needle?


----------



## ElChapo

GeeHFifteen said:


> @ElChapo
> Is there a chance that oil inside of a muscle can cause scar tissue or is it only the penetration of the muscle caused by the needle?


 Both can cause some scarring, this effect is is neglible unless you are using nasty/unsterile oils or injecting high concentrations that cause noticeable pip for long periods of time.

Any scarring will not be noticeable to the naked eye and will not affect muscle performance, you can minimize it by rotating sites every 7 days, using smaller gauge needles for injections +27 g (i prefer 30 g 5/16th inch insulin needles) and using high quality/sterile products.


----------



## TREACLE

What are your views on NAC supplementation for general health and harm reduction during oral AAS usage?


----------



## cell-tech

dbol Kid said:


> it does look like it will sell out fast lol
> 
> same with ephadrine, been waiting for that for a while


 ffs please leave me some lol


----------



## superdrol

Strange question, I've been on 3250 calories, then 3650 training three times a week, I've swapped from ppl to a lower intensity fullbody routine, roughly 50mins to an hr so similar length and similar rest times etc, I am doing similar sets per body part

at the start of this week I'd lost 1kg which I put down to tropical weather and sweating it all out, anyway I've never been over 3250 calories until this year... but never really grown properly either, I made a pact with myself to push for 0.5-1kg a week and when it ceased increasing I'd up the calories by 400, allowing myself a band if you like where my body was comfy gaining if you follow

ive now lost a further 0.5kg this week and trained once so far and hammered 4k calories yesterday and today, fluids are plentiful, it's not been so warm and I've done 3-4l easily

my question is, I've gained weight previously at 3250 calories, so the body speeds up its metabolism in response to training... that's fair enough, but how does this happen i.e. What are the mechanisms... and can you reset the body with a low calorie day in a similar way to a refeed does for dieting, for example eating 2500 calories for a day or two to slow its adaptions to the high calories, 4k cals is becoming a chore (I've even been and bought pizzas, rice pudding and stuff that goes down easily to help get food in me, I'm gonna stick at 4k until the end of the week and up it some more to 4400 if needs be) I work manual labour during the day as a mechanic/auto electrician and it was hard going in the heat of last week...

what are staple bulking foods for you that go down easily??

(the only thing I've changed is gear from a sphinx blend with prop to a sphinx blend that's new... did actually wonder if they'd accidentally dropped some Tren in the brew to make it seem a bit more rocket fuel like, been on it 6-7 weeks... Tren e would make sense of my body's seeming bottomless pit of calorific absorption all of a sudden... I've never done tren before but I am getting slightly weird vivid dreams, but could also be coincidence as my sleep suffers when air pressure is all over the place... why is that out of interest??)

thanks


----------



## peanutbutter9

ElChapo said:


> Will help with recovery and with insulin, and help increase strength and mass.


 @ElChapo Ok thanks. I've got 15 weeks of prep for a powerlifting competition. Have a couple of kg to gain but can't go mad, and need to maintain cardiovascular fitness for my job.

Plan AAS wise is: test e 300mg, tren ace 200mg, introduce winstrol 50mg every day at 10 weeks out and increase to 100mg 5 weeks out. 50mg test suspension pre-wo (heavy days).

What would you suggest is best for HGH and insulin? I have about 15iu legit pharma to play with per week. Would you suggest splitting this every day, or use post-wo only? My plan regarding insulin was just use a rapid acting post-wo at 5-10iu. First time using both, so want to keep it fairly simple.

Thanks


----------



## BestBefore1989

Hi @ElChapo Thank you for willingness to help other members and for sharing your knowledge.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I have seen you think highly of a Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg, 12 week course with TUDCA 250mg ED for liver protection from the use of Winstrol when the objective is size and strength.

My question relates to blood pressure. 12 weeks of 300mg Test E and c 400mg Tren E is going to elevate blood pressure and TUDCA warns against use if of risk of high blood pressure.

Other than Calis at 5mg EOD and cardio ED what can be done to minimise any health risk?


----------



## ElChapo

peanutbutter9 said:


> @ElChapo Ok thanks. I've got 15 weeks of prep for a powerlifting competition. Have a couple of kg to gain but can't go mad, and need to maintain cardiovascular fitness for my job.
> 
> Plan AAS wise is: test e 300mg, tren ace 200mg, introduce winstrol 50mg every day at 10 weeks out and increase to 100mg 5 weeks out. 50mg test suspension pre-wo (heavy days).
> 
> What would you suggest is best for HGH and insulin? I have about 15iu legit pharma to play with per week. Would you suggest splitting this every day, or use post-wo only? My plan regarding insulin was just use a rapid acting post-wo at 5-10iu. First time using both, so want to keep it fairly simple.
> 
> Thanks


 3-6 iu GH, and the insulin you stated above is fine.


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> Hi @ElChapo Thank you for willingness to help other members and for sharing your knowledge.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong but I have seen you think highly of a Test P or E 300 mg/Winstrol 350 mg/Tren A or E 300-600 mg, 12 week course with TUDCA 250mg ED for liver protection from the use of Winstrol when the objective is size and strength.
> 
> My question relates to blood pressure. 12 weeks of 300mg Test E and c 400mg Tren E is going to elevate blood pressure and TUDCA warns against use if of risk of high blood pressure.
> 
> Other than Calis at 5mg EOD and cardio ED what can be done to minimise any health risk?


 Not everyone will get elevated BP, especially from those lower doses. Tudca is completely safe for hypertensive individuals.

I would not worry about BP on cycle unless it's over 165/90, beta blocker is your best bet to control on cycle hypertension if it gets out of hand. cialis doesnt do much, especially in the small doses we use. Cardio can help.


----------



## ReRaise

@El Chapo

What are your thoughts on the use of PWO Fast acting insulin stand alone use during a cruise/time off to help maintain mass or continue growing? I know its best to use with HGH but can it be used effectively without HGH? Or is there a better protocol than PWO for this?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What are your thoughts on the use of PWO Fast acting insulin stand alone use during a cruise/time off to help maintain mass or continue growing? I know its best to use with HGH but can it be used effectively without HGH? Or is there a better protocol than PWO for this?


 I see no reason for using it to maintaining mass on a cruise, especially without GH.

Do not use insulin without GH, you risk gaining fat instead. GH will enhance nutrient partioning and help shuttle nutrients into muscle. Insulin also shuttles nutrients into fat cells. AAS+GH helps us keep it in the muscle.


----------



## Doitagain

Any sulfonylurea worth some consideration to replace slin?


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> I see no reason for maintaining mass, unless you keep cruise dose very low.
> 
> Do not use insulin without GH, you risk gaining fat instead. GH will enhance nutrient partioning and help shuttle nutrients into muscle. Insulin also shuttles nutrients into fat cells. AAS+GH helps us keep it in the muscle.


 Ah ok got ya, cheers mate. Was just a thought as when I finish competing i plan on dropping to cruise dose and was thinking of assistance with rebounding. I ran insulin in the offseason without GH and did gain a little more fat than i should have really.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Ah ok got ya, cheers mate. Was just a thought as when I finish competing i plan on dropping to cruise dose and was thinking of assistance with rebounding. I ran insulin in the offseason without GH and did gain a little more fat than i should have really.


 Yep , that's why. To maintain muscle mass on a cruise, keep up your protein intake and keep lifting the same weight as you do on blast/cycle.


----------



## peanutbutter9

ElChapo said:


> 3-6 iu GH, and the insulin you stated above is fine.


 Would that be 3-6iu post-wo? Or every day?

Only got enough to run 3iu every day. Could do 4-5iu post-wo 4x a week

Thanks for your help


----------



## ElChapo

peanutbutter9 said:


> Would that be 3-6iu post-wo? Or every day?
> 
> Only got enough to run 3iu every day. Could do 4-5iu post-wo 4x a week
> 
> Thanks for your help


 daily, and no, in the morning.


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> Not everyone will get elevated BP, especially from those lower doses. Tudca is completely safe for hypertensive individuals.
> 
> I would not worry about BP on cycle unless it's over 165/90, beta blocker is your best bet to control on cycle hypertension if it gets out of hand. cialis doesnt do much, especially in the small doses we use. Cardio can help.


 thank you


----------



## superdrol

superdrol said:


> Strange question, I've been on 3250 calories, then 3650 training three times a week, I've swapped from ppl to a lower intensity fullbody routine, roughly 50mins to an hr so similar length and similar rest times etc, I am doing similar sets per body part
> 
> at the start of this week I'd lost 1kg which I put down to tropical weather and sweating it all out, anyway I've never been over 3250 calories until this year... but never really grown properly either, I made a pact with myself to push for 0.5-1kg a week and when it ceased increasing I'd up the calories by 400, allowing myself a band if you like where my body was comfy gaining if you follow
> 
> ive now lost a further 0.5kg this week and trained once so far and hammered 4k calories yesterday and today, fluids are plentiful, it's not been so warm and I've done 3-4l easily
> 
> my question is, I've gained weight previously at 3250 calories, so the body speeds up its metabolism in response to training... that's fair enough, but how does this happen i.e. What are the mechanisms... and can you reset the body with a low calorie day in a similar way to a refeed does for dieting, for example eating 2500 calories for a day or two to slow its adaptions to the high calories, 4k cals is becoming a chore (I've even been and bought pizzas, rice pudding and stuff that goes down easily to help get food in me, I'm gonna stick at 4k until the end of the week and up it some more to 4400 if needs be) I work manual labour during the day as a mechanic/auto electrician and it was hard going in the heat of last week...
> 
> what are staple bulking foods for you that go down easily??
> 
> (the only thing I've changed is gear from a sphinx blend with prop to a sphinx blend that's new... did actually wonder if they'd accidentally dropped some Tren in the brew to make it seem a bit more rocket fuel like, been on it 6-7 weeks... Tren e would make sense of my body's seeming bottomless pit of calorific absorption all of a sudden... I've never done tren before but I am getting slightly weird vivid dreams, but could also be coincidence as my sleep suffers when air pressure is all over the place... why is that out of interest??)
> 
> thanks


 @El Chapo :whistling:


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> @El Chapo :whistling:


 Good question

You need to weigh yourself daily, add up 7 days and divide to get your average weekly weight. This will help account for water fluctuation from sweat, sodium, carb intake, glycogen, etc.

Then compare your weekly averages, this will give you a much more accurate number.

Eating a s**t ton of food is part of the game just as much as lifting. You need to find foods you enjoy that are calorically dense. My personal go-to is your favorite cereal with skim milk. I can eat boxes of my favorite cereal no problem, but it does come to a point where you have to eat when you're not hungry but that's part of the game.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Good question
> 
> You need to weigh yourself daily, add up 7 days and divide to get your average weekly weight. This will help account for water fluctuation from sweat, sodium, carb intake, glycogen, etc.
> 
> Then compare your weekly averages, this will give you a much more accurate number.
> 
> Eating a s**t ton of food is part of the game just as much as lifting. You need to find foods you enjoy that are calorically dense. My personal go-to is your favorite cereal with skim milk. I can eat boxes of my favorite cereal no problem, but it does come to a point where you have to eat when you're not hungry but that's part of the game.


 I use an app for the iPhone called happy scale and it does the averaging bit for me, draws an average line so even if you have a low or high weight one a day it doesn't skew the line

weight just dropped last week which has been particularly warm so I put it down to that, I always include peanut m&m's as they are calorie dense and the peanuts are decent fats and slow there digestion at night, only a small bag but it's like my reward for hitting macros

Had porridge this morning with 100g oats, 300ml semi skimmed, 40g peanut butter, 40g sultanas and 40g honey, it's on the verge of being sickly, but I manage it and it's a nice start to the day

TBH I've made protein higher as getting carbs in without loads of sugar is a pain in the ass, I'd rather limit processed sugar, but don't care about bananas, honey, sultanas etc they make stuff taste good and help it go down

ive no doubt I could push it harder and I think flapjack will be a weapon soon aswell! 

luckily I can eat! Just gonna kill me on a cut halving input! But I'm happy it's going up as cuts won't be so low if you follow... gonna cut eventually but for now it's summer/winter bulk and cut at xmas when it's cold and look better at 40 next year than ever before!!

View attachment IMG_5079.PNG


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I use an app for the iPhone called happy scale and it does the averaging bit for me, draws an average line so even if you have a low or high weight one a day it doesn't skew the line
> 
> weight just dropped last week which has been particularly warm so I put it down to that, I always include peanut m&m's as they are calorie dense and the peanuts are decent fats and slow there digestion at night, only a small bag but it's like my reward for hitting macros
> 
> Had porridge this morning with 100g oats, 300ml semi skimmed, 40g peanut butter, 40g sultanas and 40g honey, it's on the verge of being sickly, but I manage it and it's a nice start to the day
> 
> TBH I've made protein higher as getting carbs in without loads of sugar is a pain in the ass, I'd rather limit processed sugar, but don't care about bananas, honey, sultanas etc they make stuff taste good and help it go down
> 
> ive no doubt I could push it harder and I think flapjack will be a weapon soon aswell!
> 
> luckily I can eat! Just gonna kill me on a cut halving input! But I'm happy it's going up as cuts won't be so low if you follow... gonna cut eventually but for now it's summer/winter bulk and cut at xmas when it's cold and look better at 40 next year than ever before!!
> 
> View attachment 143287


 Don't worry about sugar so much, just focus on your calories and training. People obsess too much over macros.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Don't worry about sugar so much, just focus on your calories and training. People obsess too much over macros.


 I'll reset macros at 550c 200p and 111f, and if I need to increase it I will as I need to, I don't consider what I'm doing as exceptionally taxing... but something's changed within my body and it's now chomping 4000 calories, I never dreamt I'd be here saying I need more... @FelonE said it wasn't always a good thing needing lots of calories but I can almost see where he's coming from right now! Bring on the carb sweats!!

with that many carbs and normal meals I can get almost all my protein from normal foods now 

thanks @El Chapo you deserve legend status along with @ghost.recon I've never opened this thread and not learnt something!!


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I'll reset macros at 550c 200p and 111f, and if I need to increase it I will as I need to, I don't consider what I'm doing as exceptionally taxing... but something's changed within my body and it's now chomping 4000 calories, I never dreamt I'd be here saying I need more... @FelonE said it wasn't always a good thing needing lots of calories but I can almost see where he's coming from right now! Bring on the carb sweats!!
> 
> with that many carbs and normal meals I can get almost all my protein from normal foods now
> 
> thanks @El Chapo you deserve legend status along with @ghost.recon I've never opened this thread and not learnt something!!


 Thanks for the kind words. Remember it takes sacrifice to achieve great things.


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo hi mate, I just got my first blood test on after blasting on tren for a year +. The GP told me my kidney function, liver, thyroid etc are all good but my RBC is low, she said this could be due to iron deficiency so I will be getting bloods taken again tomorrow to get my iron levels checked. If it is iron deficiency (which I'm sure it is), would it be ok to blast again? I'm currently on fourth week on 250mg test only. I was thinking of buying some iron supplements, so if I did get the iron supplememts would it be okay to blast again on 300 test 600 tren e?


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo hi mate, I just got my first blood test on after blasting on tren for a year +. The GP told me my kidney function, liver, thyroid etc are all good but my RBC is low, she said this could be due to iron deficiency so I will be getting bloods taken again tomorrow to get my iron levels checked. If it is iron deficiency (which I'm sure it is), would it be ok to blast again? I'm currently on fourth week on 250mg test only. I was thinking of buying some iron supplements, so if I did get the iron supplememts would it be okay to blast again on 300 test 600 tren e?


 Sure, what is your hematocrit? Androgens tend to elevate hematocrit and HCT, so it's odd that yours is low. What were you running and at what dosages?


----------



## RRSUK

@ElChapo

What sort of insulin protocol would you recommend with AAS but no GH.

Have novorapid, lantus and novomix 30.

Only ever ran novorapid before, morning and pwo.

Currently running test/tren.


----------



## Nara

ElChapo said:


> Sure, what is your hematocrit? Androgens tend to elevate hematocrit and HCT, so it's odd that yours is low. What were you running and at what dosages?


 I was running 300 test 600 tren e, then i dropped tren e and lowered the test to 250, im not sure what my hematocrit was, I only got a phone call saying everything was fine apart from liver being slightly over but nothing abnormal and my RBC low possibly due to low iron


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> I was running 300 test 600 tren e, then i dropped tren e and lowered the test to 250, im not sure what my hematocrit was, I only got a phone call saying everything was fine apart from liver being slightly over but nothing abnormal and my RBC low possibly due to low iron


 That is very interesting. You should always keep a copy of labs for personal records.

Go ahead with the iron, i would get a copy and look at your hematocrit. That should be on the low end as well.


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

i have a severe ankle injury dating from April 2016. I've had nearly 20 x rays and a MRI and CT scan. Been wearing an air boot the past 8 weeks so the consultant could see if the fluid around my joint would disappear which it didn't. I'm in pain all the time. A small bit of bone broke initially and now is in the wrong place in my ankle plus I've two torn ligaments but there is one point where it must be nerve or something damage they cannot work out it's so sore still to touch a certain spot about the size of a coin.

Anyway I've got another MRI in two weeks then they will insert a camera and see what they can do. Would any peptides or low dose deca ease my pain or help at all.

I was given tramadol but moved myself back to codeine as I didn't want to be hooked on tramadol


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo

Can you please enlighten about the HCG desensitisation I read any sort of bro science about it, would be nice to know what a professional thinks about it and if it really exists after all


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i have a severe ankle injury dating from April 2016. I've had nearly 20 x rays and a MRI and CT scan. Been wearing an air boot the past 8 weeks so the consultant could see if the fluid around my joint would disappear which it didn't. I'm in pain all the time. A small bit of bone broke initially and now is in the wrong place in my ankle plus I've two torn ligaments but there is one point where it must be nerve or something damage they cannot work out it's so sore still to touch a certain spot about the size of a coin.
> 
> Anyway I've got another MRI in two weeks then they will insert a camera and see what they can do. Would any peptides or low dose deca ease my pain or help at all.
> 
> I was given tramadol but moved myself back to codeine as I didn't want to be hooked on tramadol


 IGF-1, GH releasing peptides and GH may help. There is some preliminary research. Nothing definitive yet.

I don't know about, but might help make the bones stronger and maybe help with the pain.


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Can you please enlighten about the HCG desensitisation I read any sort of bro science about it, would be nice to know what a professional thinks about it and if it really exists after all


 Do your testes desensitize to LH/FSH?


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> Do your testes desensitize to LH/FSH?


 No, but I reckon it was as Tamoxifen can block the desensitisation and now that I've discontinued it I'm wondering if that will be the case in future as I will probably stay in Blasting and Cruising (and by cruising probably more on the HRT side) and I being using HCG regularly for a long time


----------



## Doitagain

Nara said:


> I was running 300 test 600 tren e, then i dropped tren e and lowered the test to 250, im not sure what my hematocrit was, I only got a phone call saying everything was fine apart from liver being slightly over but nothing abnormal and my RBC low possibly due to low iron


 Please get a copy of your labs. I find it interesting...just got bloods myself, after 4 months on 600mg Tren E + 200mg Test C my HCT went -down- 4 points (from 48 to 44).


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> No, but I reckon it was as Tamoxifen can block the desensitisation and now that I've discontinued it I'm wondering if that will be the case in future as I will probably stay in Blasting and Cruising (and by cruising probably more on the HRT side) and I being using HCG regularly for a long time


 Tamoxifen blocks the desensitization of what?

Using HCG will not cause desensitization


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Please get a copy of your labs. I find it interesting...just got bloods myself, after 4 months on 600mg Tren E + 200mg Test C my HCT went -down- 4 points (from 48 to 44).


 I would wonder what your total T levels were during that 200 mg test C run.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> Tamoxifen blocks the desensitization of what?
> 
> Using HCG will not cause desensitization


 Not my theory, Let me paste it in here

*
Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
*



> Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
> HCG induced testicular desensitization seems to be a hot topic. There are a number of studies showing that concomitant use of Nolvadex ameliorates this. The first abstract suggests that HCG at least partially blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP), a testosterone precursor, to testosterone. This effect is suppressed by Nolvadex.
> 
> The second abstract seems to indicate that estrogen may not be the only culprit, since Nolvadex plus HCG does not increase T levels any more than HCG alone, even though the combination reduces desensitization.
> 
> Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.
> 
> J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 Nov;51(5):1026-9
> 
> Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.
> 
> Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
> 
> Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.
> 
> Andrologia 1991 Mar-Apr;23(2):109-14
> 
> Effect of an antiestrogen on the testicular response to acute and chronic administration of hCG in normal and hypogonadotropic hypogonadic men: tamoxifen and testicular response to hCG.
> 
> Levalle OA, Suescun MO, Fiszlejder L, Aszpis S, Charreau E, Guitelman A, Calandra R.
> 
> Division Endocrinologia, Hospital Carlos Durand, Instituto de Biologia y Medicina Experimental, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> 
> The effect of the antiestrogen tamoxifen (Tx) on the acute and chronic hCG administration was evaluated in patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) and in normal men. An hCG test (5000 IU hCG) was performed before, after two months of hCG administration (2000 IU hCG three times weekly) and after two months of hCG + Tx (2000 IU hCG three times weekly plus 20 mg/day of tamoxifen). Blood samples were obtained before and following 24 and 72 h of every test to determine T, E, 17OHP and SHBG. T increased only in HH with both treatments (X +/- SEM: Basal: 97.9 +/- 19.7; hCG: 237.7 +/- 43.2; hCG +/- Tx: 204.7 +/- 10.7 ng/100 ml). 17OHP rose with hCG alone, but not with hCG + Tx in both groups. E, SHBG and 17OHP/T ratio did not change after treatments. hCG tests: E increased 24 h following hCG administration in every test. The ratio 17OHP/T rose at 24 h in the first and second test but in the third test it did not change. These results support the role of E in the acute hCG-induced Leydig cell desensitization. However, the association of Tx does not improve T serum levels, suggesting that E might not be the unique factor involved in the mechanisms for testicular desensitization.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> I would wonder what your total T levels were during that 200 mg test C run.


 1120 ng/dl six days after injection


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> Not my theory, Let me paste it in here
> 
> *
> Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
> HCG induced testicular desensitization seems to be a hot topic. There are a number of studies showing that concomitant use of Nolvadex ameliorates this. The first abstract suggests that HCG at least partially blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP), a testosterone precursor, to testosterone. This effect is suppressed by Nolvadex.
> 
> The second abstract seems to indicate that estrogen may not be the only culprit, since Nolvadex plus HCG does not increase T levels any more than HCG alone, even though the combination reduces desensitization.
> 
> Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.
> 
> J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 Nov;51(5):1026-9
> 
> Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.
> 
> Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
> 
> Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.
> 
> Andrologia 1991 Mar-Apr;23(2):109-14
> 
> Effect of an antiestrogen on the testicular response to acute and chronic administration of hCG in normal and hypogonadotropic hypogonadic men: tamoxifen and testicular response to hCG.
> 
> Levalle OA, Suescun MO, Fiszlejder L, Aszpis S, Charreau E, Guitelman A, Calandra R.
> 
> Division Endocrinologia, Hospital Carlos Durand, Instituto de Biologia y Medicina Experimental, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> 
> The effect of the antiestrogen tamoxifen (Tx) on the acute and chronic hCG administration was evaluated in patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) and in normal men. An hCG test (5000 IU hCG) was performed before, after two months of hCG administration (2000 IU hCG three times weekly) and after two months of hCG + Tx (2000 IU hCG three times weekly plus 20 mg/day of tamoxifen). Blood samples were obtained before and following 24 and 72 h of every test to determine T, E, 17OHP and SHBG. T increased only in HH with both treatments (X +/- SEM: Basal: 97.9 +/- 19.7; hCG: 237.7 +/- 43.2; hCG +/- Tx: 204.7 +/- 10.7 ng/100 ml). 17OHP rose with hCG alone, but not with hCG + Tx in both groups. E, SHBG and 17OHP/T ratio did not change after treatments. hCG tests: E increased 24 h following hCG administration in every test. The ratio 17OHP/T rose at 24 h in the first and second test but in the third test it did not change. These results support the role of E in the acute hCG-induced Leydig cell desensitization. However, the association of Tx does not improve T serum levels, suggesting that E might not be the unique factor involved in the mechanisms for testicular desensitization.
Click to expand...

 This has nothing to do with what we are using HCG for, these studies are talking about progesterone.

HCG is a gonadotropin like LH/FSH, stimulates spermatogenesis and testosterone production in the testes.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> 1120 ng/dl six days after injection


 What were you running prior to this cycle?


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> What were you running prior to this cycle?


 400mg Test C/week for 3-4 months.

On a side note: 50mg oral winny have a much more dramatic effect on my size and hardness compared to 600mg Tren E (tren is legit, lab tested, even slightly overdosed actually). What else can I do to avoid the glass-like joints/tendons? Already use 5000iu D3 a day, Curcumin+bioperine and Krill oil.


----------



## RRSUK

@ElChapo

What sort of insulin protocol would you recommend with AAS but no GH.

Have novorapid, lantus and novomix 30.

Only ever ran novorapid before, morning and pwo.

Currently train at 13:30 for 60 minutes Monday to Friday.

Eat 6 meals/day each with a minimum of 50g of carbs, Meal 1 & 5 are carb heavier though.

Currently running test/tren.

Thanks


----------



## TRT lifter

@ElChapo

Could you explain why smaller, more frequent injections are recommended for someone with low SHBG?

Also, does ester length make any difference for someone with low SHBG? (Nebido was a nightmare for me, but prop feels great)


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo you said that to grow we should focus more on EATING not which AAS use.

Is there a method that we can apply on how to eat enough cals?


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> 400mg Test C/week for 3-4 months.
> 
> On a side note: 50mg oral winny have a much more dramatic effect on my size and hardness compared to 600mg Tren E (tren is legit, lab tested, even slightly overdosed actually). What else can I do to avoid the glass-like joints/tendons? Already use 5000iu D3 a day, Curcumin+bioperine and Krill oil.


 If you respond poorly to winstrol try lowering the dose or using a different AAS. You can't help your genetic reaction to AAS, some people can't use tren for the same reason. Diet, training and genetics are 90% of what makes a physique. The AAS just let you get there, you dont need tren or winstrol for a great physique.


----------



## ElChapo

TRT lifter said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Could you explain why smaller, more frequent injections are recommended for someone with low SHBG?
> 
> Also, does ester length make any difference for someone with low SHBG? (Nebido was a nightmare for me, but prop feels great)


 SHBG increases the half life of sex hormones, when you have low SHBG, your body will metabolize them more quickly. More injections means more stability since low SHBG means lower half-life for your testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

RRSUK said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What sort of insulin protocol would you recommend with AAS but no GH.
> 
> Have novorapid, lantus and novomix 30.
> 
> Only ever ran novorapid before, morning and pwo.
> 
> Currently train at 13:30 for 60 minutes Monday to Friday.
> 
> Eat 6 meals/day each with a minimum of 50g of carbs, Meal 1 & 5 are carb heavier though.
> 
> Currently running test/tren.
> 
> Thanks


 I answered this many times in the thread.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo you said that to grow we should focus more on EATING not which AAS use.
> 
> Is there a method that we can apply on how to eat enough cals?


 Not just eating, but your training needs to focus on increase weight lifted on all exercises, period.

Use a TDEE calculator and get an estimate of how many calories you burn per day. You need to be in a surplus and eat more than to grow muscle. You will make adjustments on caloric intake based on wether you are gaining too much or too little weight, until you figure your the perfect caloric intake for maximal muscle and strength increase while limiting increases in fat.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> If you respond poorly to winstrol try lowering the dose or using a different AAS.


 I actually respond to Winstrol BETTER than any other AAS; it's just the joints/tendons pain to bother me.

It seems to be due to its effect on TGF Beta 1, so maybe there's a tip to fix it.


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

How much ephedrine hcl do you recommend with 200mg caffeine?

Mine have come in 8mg tabs.


----------



## TRT lifter

ElChapo said:


> SHBG increases the half life of sex hormones, when you have low SHBG, your body will metabolize them more quickly. More injections means more stability since low SHBG means lower half-life for your testosterone.


 Nice one, thank you.

I didn't realise it was that simple. I've seen Dr. Crisler recommends the smaller more frequent injections for low SHBG but never seen an explanation anywhere.

As a follow up question, can SHBG be driven too low? Is it a bad idea to use certain orals when SHBG is already low,or does it just level out once it reaches a certain level?

Thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How much ephedrine hcl do you recommend with 200mg caffeine?
> 
> Mine have come in 8mg tabs.


 About 20 mg per dosing.


----------



## ElChapo

TRT lifter said:


> Nice one, thank you.
> 
> I didn't realise it was that simple. I've seen Dr. Crisler recommends the smaller more frequent injections for low SHBG but never seen an explanation anywhere.
> 
> As a follow up question, can SHBG be driven too low? Is it a bad idea to use certain orals when SHBG is already low,or does it just level out once it reaches a certain level?
> 
> Thanks again.


 It's nothing to worry about dealing with. SHBG will go up and down as the body regulates itself. Certain things can cause an increase/decrease. Thyroid hormones increase SHBG, androgens can lower it, insulin resistance tends to drop it as well. It's complex, but not something to concern yourself with.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> I actually respond to Winstrol BETTER than any other AAS; it's just the joints/tendons pain to bother me.
> 
> It seems to be due to its effect on TGF Beta 1, so maybe there's a tip to fix it.


 Winstrol is underrated, most people think of it as a finishing/cutter/cosmetic drug. It's extremely versatile and effective for aesthetics and performance.

Have you tried 25-30 mg ED dosing?


----------



## Mingster

ElChapo said:


> That is very interesting. You should always keep a copy of labs for personal records.


 This is very true. I keep a copy of all my bloods going back years. It's a useful tool as it enables you to identify ongoing trends and patterns that a variety of doctors may miss.


----------



## ElChapo

Mingster said:


> This is very true. I keep a copy of all my bloods going back years. It's a useful tool as it enables you to identify ongoing trends and patterns that a variety of doctors may miss.


 Yep, and we also have to account for the damage that we cannot see through blood work (Atherosclerosis/calcification, heart muscle hypertrophy/damage/scarring, etc)


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo.

I know this wouldn't be actually possible, but say you had to replicate (as close as you possibly could within the given parameters) the effects of 500mg Tren E with 1g (total) of other compounds, what would you use and in what doses and why?

Cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo.
> 
> I know this wouldn't be actually possible, but say you had to replicate (as close as you possibly could within the given parameters) the effects of 500mg Tren E with 1g (total) of other compounds, what would you use and in what doses and why?
> 
> Cheers!


 500 mg test+500 mg winstrol


----------



## Pancake'

How can I increase my appetite?

Thanks


----------



## 31205

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i have a severe ankle injury dating from April 2016. I've had nearly 20 x rays and a MRI and CT scan. Been wearing an air boot the past 8 weeks so the consultant could see if the fluid around my joint would disappear which it didn't. I'm in pain all the time. A small bit of bone broke initially and now is in the wrong place in my ankle plus I've two torn ligaments but there is one point where it must be nerve or something damage they cannot work out it's so sore still to touch a certain spot about the size of a coin.
> 
> Anyway I've got another MRI in two weeks then they will insert a camera and see what they can do. Would any peptides or low dose deca ease my pain or help at all.
> 
> I was given tramadol but moved myself back to codeine as I didn't want to be hooked on tramadol


 You're not in the DWP office now mate. You can quit the lies!


----------



## Tricky

sen said:


> You're not in the DWP office now mate. You can quit the lies!


 What is the DWP office? What you mean lies about what


----------



## 31205

Tricky said:


> What is the DWP office? What you mean lies about what


 Department for work and pensions mate. It's where you go to claim disability allowance!


----------



## 31205

It was my attempt at humour but doesn't quite work if all parties don't know what certain bits mean.


----------



## sponge2015

sen said:


> It was my attempt at humour but doesn't quite work if all parties don't know what certain bits mean.


 How was you running the mtren mate? 1mg ED? Or just on pwo? Quite interested in these


----------



## Tricky

sen said:


> Department for work and pensions mate. It's where you go to claim disability allowance!


 Lol never heard of it suppose I could of used google to see! After a 9 hour shift it swells like f**k I just wish they would decide what surgery to give me and sort it so I can heal and get back to walking/running and squatting!

Nhs are that incompetent from my experience on this isssue all I get from them it's really a mystery give it another 8 weeks rest and we will re access you


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> About 20 mg per dosing.


 Thanks for that, must admit this combination works better for me than sib for appetite suppressant


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> How can I increase my appetite?
> 
> Thanks


 Moderate intensity cardio usually helps and high doses of testosterone, but it comes to a certain point for some people where you gotta eat when you have no appetite and want to throw up. It's part of the game.

You go to the gym and put your body through pain and hell to attain your goals, think of it that way when you have to shovel down food even when you want to stop.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> Thanks for that, must admit this combination works better for me than sib for appetite suppressant


 It is a tried and true classic with so many benefits ( Energy/training intensity on diet, appetite suppression, increase in fat loss/TDEE)


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo i know youve said previously, but whats a good dose of yohimbine?


----------



## Jordan08

How do you rate Vicks vaporab for elbow joint pain ?


----------



## J12KE

@ElChapo. Hi bud another question for you, after speaking to you the other day if you can remember (within the other 9999 questions you've been asked haha)

That the reason I'm on statins is due to having familial hypercholesterolemia. And that statins are really bad and I don't want to be on them. Well going on from that have you heard of PCSK9 inhibitors ? I'm thinking of asking my docs if I can go onto this and get off the statins ideally. I've read the side effects of both statins and these PCSK9 inhibitors and although they do come with sides they generally don't seem "as bad" as statins as a whole.

would love to know your view on These PCSK9 inhibitors if possible as I have no one to talk to and ask about them other than good old google lol.

thanks in advance, highly appreciate your help.


----------



## 31205

sponge2015 said:


> How was you running the mtren mate? 1mg ED? Or just on pwo? Quite interested in these


 1mg ed mate.


----------



## 31205

Tricky said:


> Lol never heard of it suppose I could of used google to see! After a 9 hour shift it swells like f**k I just wish they would decide what surgery to give me and sort it so I can heal and get back to walking/running and squatting!
> 
> Nhs are that incompetent from my experience on this isssue all I get from them it's really a mystery give it another 8 weeks rest and we will re access you


 Mate i waited nearly 3 months just to borrow one of those things you stick on your finger to measure your oxygen levels. I only needed it for one night.

Even more ridiculous is that it's got nothing to do with what's wrong with me.

When I wanted to have the snip though, that was a completely different story. Was about 6 weeks from going to see gp to leaving my man-ness in the clinic.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo i know youve said previously, but whats a good dose of yohimbine?


 .2 mg per kg, on empty stomach.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> How do you rate Vicks vaporab for elbow joint pain ?


 Could help a bit, they use similar stuff on farm animals.

Rest is the best medicine for most arthralgias. Training through the pain is the worst thing you can do. If it's fresh inflammation/injury 1-2 weeks of complete rest is usually enough to come back 100%, if it's more moderate 3-4 weeks is a better idea.


----------



## ElChapo

J12KE said:


> @ElChapo. Hi bud another question for you, after speaking to you the other day if you can remember (within the other 9999 questions you've been asked haha)
> 
> That the reason I'm on statins is due to having familial hypercholesterolemia. And that statins are really bad and I don't want to be on them. Well going on from that have you heard of PCSK9 inhibitors ? I'm thinking of asking my docs if I can go onto this and get off the statins ideally. I've read the side effects of both statins and these PCSK9 inhibitors and although they do come with sides they generally don't seem "as bad" as statins as a whole.
> 
> would love to know your view on These PCSK9 inhibitors if possible as I have no one to talk to and ask about them other than good old google lol.
> 
> thanks in advance, highly appreciate your help.


 Not enough research on them yet.

I would stop worrying about the hypercholesteremia, this does not "cause" heart disease. It's the same fallacy behind saturated fat = heart disease. This data comes from flawed studies that medicine has been running for with decades. Some research even shows benefits to having higher cholesterol levels. It's not a poison that is there to kill you it, has MANY important functions in your body and this is why people get so sick when they try to artificially decrease it. The decision is yours ultimately.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Mate i waited nearly 3 months just to borrow one of those things you stick on your finger to measure your oxygen levels. I only needed it for one night.
> 
> Even more ridiculous is that it's got nothing to do with what's wrong with me.
> 
> When I wanted to have the snip though, that was a completely different story. Was about 6 weeks from going to see gp to leaving my man-ness in the clinic.


 You can purchase on 02 sat meter on amazon for very cheap. It's a nice gadget to have around ( like BP monitor) , also measures heart rate.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> You can purchase on 02 sat meter on amazon for very cheap. It's a nice gadget to have around ( like BP monitor) , also measures heart rate.


 Yeah this one did. I don't even know why I had to use it. That thing at the back of your throat that hangs down, mine is too long. Makes me feel like something is in my throat so I'm always spitting/nearly being sick/eyes bulging out my head etc.

I told the specialist this and also I'd been snoring too, recently. Now I realise the snoring was because I'd got fat. Or fatter anyway. I don't get it at all now. But they still sent me for that. Pulse was about 90 though which I thought was fair high. Oxygen 96 I think.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Yeah this one did. I don't even know why I had to use it. That thing at the back of your throat that hangs down, mine is too long. Makes me feel like something is in my throat so I'm always spitting/nearly being sick/eyes bulging out my head etc.
> 
> I told the specialist this and also I'd been snoring too, recently. Now I realise the snoring was because I'd got fat. Or fatter anyway. I don't get it at all now. But they still sent me for that. Pulse was about 90 though which I thought was fair high. Oxygen 96 I think.


 I had the same issue when my bodyfat was higher, i had trouble breathing/snoring and HR was 90 on tren.


----------



## zariph

Sorry for the rookie questions but

When doing a first cycle of test E - where do you recommend pinning glutes for a first time user, and can you get away with only pinning glutes or will you have to rotate to other parts?
Also maybe a dumb question but can you get tren cough from test ?


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> I had the same issue when my bodyfat was higher, i had trouble breathing/snoring and HR was 90 on tren.


 Will the tren have something to do with higher heart rate? I've been feeling a bit shitty this week. Started Sunday and all week I've been absolutely knackered. Working nights which won't help but I'm a lot more tired than usual. Plus about 20-30 mins after a meal I've been feeling really light headed, sweating, bit shaky, absolutely starving. Not sure if it's the mtren I've been on for the last 3 weeks or the combination of that and the winstrol I've been on for probably 3 weeks more? Plus been on tren since March but only around 400mg.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Sorry for the rookie questions but
> 
> When doing a first cycle of test E - where do you recommend pinning glutes for a first time user, and can you get away with only pinning glutes or will you have to rotate to other parts?
> Also maybe a dumb question but can you get tren cough from test ?


 I am not a fan of glutes. Coming from a medical professional's standpoint, the flexibility needed and risk of unsteadiness will increase the likely hood of PIP, and you risk pinning into the sciatic nerve which is a very bad thing.

I highly recommend ventrogluteal as the #1 spot for pinning. It's very easy to reach, has the least amount of blood vessels and nerves of any injection site on the body. I like delts and quads but they are used more frequenctly in daily activities, so risk of PIP is much higher. I love pecs as well, but you need to have some decent muscle development to access this site and it skeeves some guys out.

Some people have gotten tren cough from other AAS, seems like the oil gets into the bloodstream and reaches the lungs causing irritation.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> Will the tren have something to do with higher heart rate? I've been feeling a bit shitty this week. Started Sunday and all week I've been absolutely knackered. Working nights which won't help but I'm a lot more tired than usual. Plus about 20-30 mins after a meal I've been feeling really light headed, sweating, bit shaky, absolutely starving. Not sure if it's the mtren I've been on for the last 3 weeks or the combination of that and the winstrol I've been on for probably 3 weeks more? Plus been on tren since March but only around 400mg.


 Yes, tachycardia is a side effect of trenbolone, no question. Fatigue/lethargy are the other common symptom.

Your issue is tren, after a while it takes a toll and you need a break. You will feel like a new man once it's out of your blood stream.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I am not a fan of glutes. Coming from a medical professional's standpoint, the flexibility needed and risk of unsteadiness pin will increase the likelyhood of PIP, and you risk pinning into the sciatic nerve which is a very bad thing.
> 
> I highly recommend ventrogluteal as the #1 spot for pinning.
> 
> Some people have gotten tren cough from other AAS, seems like the oil gets into the bloodstream and reaches the lungs causing irritation.


 cool! Any other easy parts to pin? Or can I stay with pinning ventrogluteal trhough whole cycle?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> cool! Any other easy parts to pin? Or can I stay with pinning ventrogluteal trhough whole cycle?


 Lateral delts, pecs, and upper quads are the easiest and most comfortable to access. These are my favorites.

For extra comfort, less chance of scarring/pip, use insulin needles to inject your AAS/HRT. 30 gauge 1/2 inch makes pinning a pleasant experience. I used to be a 25 gauge 1 inch guy. Never again.

Alternatively, larger gauges (25-27 g) are painless going through the ventroglute if your pinning weekly high volume.

Length of needle will come down to how lean you are at your chosen injection site.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Lateral delts, pecs, and upper quads are the easiest and most comfortable to access. These are my favorites.


 Nice thx - do you use insulin needles for delts/pecs ?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice thx - do you use insulin needles for delts/pecs ?


 Hell yeah, insulin needles for every site including ventro glute. You need to be fairly lean though for the shorter needles (1/2 inch and under)


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Hell yeah, insulin needles for every site including ventro glute. You need to be fairly lean though for the shorter needles (1/2 inch and under)


 ohh I thought ppl usually went with green for drawing and blue for pinning?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> ohh I thought ppl usually went with green for drawing and blue for pinning?


 I don't go by colors so i don't know what you are talking about, but for drawing 18-22 gauge, for pinning 25-27 g. I personally do 30 g 5/16th inch.

23 gauge you will draw a bit faster but higher risk of pain and scarring. Some guys complain that pinning is slow on 25 g, they gotta work on their grip strength.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I don't go by colors so i don't know what you are talking about, but for drawing 18-22 gauge, for pinning 25-27 g. I personally do 30 g 5/16th inch.
> 
> 23 gauge you will draw a bit faster but higher risk of pain and scarring. Some guys complain that pinning is slow on 25 g, they gotta work on their grip strength.


 thx mate!


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Yes, tachycardia is a side effect of trenbolone, no question. Fatigue/lethargy are the other common symptom.
> 
> Your issue is tren, after a while it takes a toll and you need a break. You will feel like a new man once it's out of your blood stream.


 I'll leave it then. Got 4 weeks until my holiday/wedding so shall I just cruise now on test? Did want to get a bit leaner/dryer.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> I'll leave it then. Got 4 weeks until my holiday/wedding so shall I just cruise now on test? Did want to get a bit leaner/dryer.


 Leaner/dryer will come down to diet, but tren will make you look leaner/dryer by reducing SQ water, but is it worth feeling like s**t? That's the million dollar question.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Leaner/dryer will come down to diet, but tren will make you look leaner/dryer by reducing SQ water, but is it worth feeling like s**t? That's the million dollar question.


 Definitely not! I'm due a cruise anyway. Thanks for the advice


----------



## Dark Prowler

@ElChapo Not sure if this is your field, but what would you say is the best way to treat biceps tendinitis? I have it in my right arm at the moment, and it's bad enough enough to prevent direct biceps training, and is the limiting factor when training back, as it flares up, but isn't severe enough to prevent or cause discomfort whilst performing daily activities, such as brushing teeth, driving, etc.


----------



## Pancake'

Can't you and @ghost.recon write a few guides or books. if either of you wrote a book, I'd legit buy it. better than all the old outdated info, from old books etc.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo hi, I've unfortunately just been prescribed an ssri called Citalopram for depression that I've finally admitted to and I'm seeking help with. I'm 36 and have been blasting and cruising for a while, so I've dropped everything to just test at 300mg e/w so nothing interferes with treatment or recovery. Was that the smartest thing to do? Does aas interfere with ssri abilities, does aromasin etc? Thanks in advance, it's been a bad week


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> @ElChapo Not sure if this is your field, but what would you say is the best way to treat biceps tendinitis? I have it in my right arm at the moment, and it's bad enough enough to prevent direct biceps training, and is the limiting factor when training back, as it flares up, but isn't severe enough to prevent or cause discomfort whilst performing daily activities, such as brushing teeth, driving, etc.


 It depends on the grade of the injury, i touched on this in the other post.

If it's a fresh injury and not too severe ( doesn't hurt at rest) 1-2 weeks of ALL training should bring it back to 100%. Then you want to start at a lower weight when training that specific body part. If you usually curls 50's, start at 30's the first week back, then 40's, then 50's on the third week back. This always works for me. The trick is knowing wether you need a 1 week break or a 2 week break.

When did you sustain the injury? If it was recently and there is still inflammation, taking 1 week off all training, ice it for 20 minutes x 3 daily for three days.

If it's a moderate injury ( hurts while at rest or feels sore) You may need 3-4 weeks of rest. Rest is the best medicine for these kinds of injuries and training through them will cause further injury and possibly make it semi-permanent.

Describe when and how this injury happened so i can better assist you. Please, always stay away from straight bar curls, they destroy elbow tendons as it is a very unnatural position for them. I would even avoid Ez-Bar curls, stick to dumbbell curls and weighted chin ups for biceps.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Can't you and @ghost.recon write a few guides or books. if either of you wrote a book, I'd legit buy it. better than all the old outdated info, from old books etc.


 I'm not really into writing so i will most likely never do it. I'm too OCD anyways, it would probably never be complete.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo hi, I've unfortunately just been prescribed an ssri called Citalopram for depression that I've finally admitted to and I'm seeking help with. I'm 36 and have been blasting and cruising for a while, so I've dropped everything to just test at 300mg e/w so nothing interferes with treatment or recovery. Was that the smartest thing to do? Does aas interfere with ssri abilities, does aromasin etc? Thanks in advance, it's been a bad week


 Definitely, AAS can affect serotenergic and dopamineric neurotransmission, tons of research verifying this.

Did you always have issues with depression, do you have any social stress, financial difficulties or body image issues? Did you ever check your hormones before taking steroids?

Aromasin will not directly interfere with SSRI's but estradiol is important for serotonergic function in the brain, it directly affects the 5-HTTP receptors.

This is why tren, deca, and test can have such dramatic effects on mood, energy, and cognition in people.


----------



## Pancake'

Noticed you aren't the biggest fan of barbell curls, I was unaware of the stress they put the elbow under. is their any other particular exercises, that you really think should be completely avoided?

Wouldn't chin ups put the elbow in similar positioning to a barbell curl?


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> It depends on the grade of the injury, i touched on this in the other post.
> 
> If it's a fresh injury and not too severe ( doesn't hurt at rest) 1-2 weeks of ALL training should bring it back to 100%. Then you want to start at a lower weight when training that specific body part. If you usually curls 50's, start at 30's the first week back, then 40's, then 50's on the third week back. This always works for me. The trick is knowing wether you need a 1 week break or a 2 week break.
> 
> When did you sustain the injury? If it was recently and there is still inflammation, taking 1 week off all training, ice it for 20 minutes x 3 daily for three days.
> 
> If it's a moderate injury ( hurts while at rest or feels sore) You may need 3-4 weeks of rest. Rest is the best medicine for these kinds of injuries and training through them will cause further injury and possibly make it semi-permanent.
> 
> Describe when and how this injury happened so i can better assist you. Please, always stay away from straight bar curls, they destroy elbow tendons as it is a very unnatural position for them. I would even avoid Ez-Bar curls, stick to dumbbell curls and weighted chin ups for biceps.


 Many thanks for your informative post.

I sustained this injury approximately 3 months ago, and it came on gradually, over a period of time. At first, I didn't really pay attention to it. I've avoided all bar work for years, and only incorporate Dumbbells, Cables and Chins into my biceps routines, but think that some of the more "exotic" exercises I'd been trying recently, putting my arms into awkward positions -- such as with Overhead Cable Curls -- may have caused this issue?

I tried training through the pain for a while -- stupid, I know -- and used BPC-157 for around 4 weeks in the hopes that the pain would just go away. When it didn't, I thought it would be best to cease training altogether, and start icing the injury, which I've been doing for around a month now. It hasn't gotten any better, but it hasn't gotten any worse, yet doesn't hurt or feel sore at rest. What seems strange to me -- but may not be strange at all -- is how I can't locate the source of the pain by feeling around the area, pressing on the tendon, etc. It only presents itself when curling my arm / flexing my biceps -- with or without weight -- with my wrist in a supinated or hammer-like position.

Let me know if you need to know anymore.


----------



## DC1

@ElChapo regarding the use of Nizoral 2% shampoo, should this be used daily or what frequency do you recommend?

I'm not bald but hair is thinning a little and was wondering if this would be of much benefit.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> Aromasin will not directly interfere with SSRI's but estradiol is important for serotonergic function in the brain, it directly affects the 5-HTTP receptors


 Can you go into the steroids/estradiol & 5http thing a little more.

Been taking it sporadically over the last few years (after some heavy MDMA use in my yoof). Really helps me stay asleep longer (tho I wake earlier, but more refreshed).


----------



## hardnfast

@ElChapo from this thread it is apparent that you rate Winstrol highly. I'm looking for a compound to lower SHBG on my next cycle and have only run Proviron previously. I was looking to run Winstrol at 50mg for 10-12 weeks with Tudca after seeing some of the advice in this thread but still worry about lowering of HDL. I naturally have both high LDL and HDL.

Question is, would Var at 50mg with Tudca be less harsh for me over the 12 weeks if my main concern is SHBG and anything else is just a bonus? Will be running with Test E and Deca.

Many thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> Many thanks for your informative post.
> 
> I sustained this injury approximately 3 months ago, and it came on gradually, over a period of time. At first, I didn't really pay attention to it. I've avoided all bar work for years, and only incorporate Dumbbells, Cables and Chins into my biceps routines, but think that some of the more "exotic" exercises I'd been trying recently, putting my arms into awkward positions -- such as with Overhead Cable Curls -- may have caused this issue?
> 
> I tried training through the pain for a while -- stupid, I know -- and used BPC-157 for around 4 weeks in the hopes that the pain would just go away. When it didn't, I thought it would be best to cease training altogether, and start icing the injury, which I've been doing for around a month now. It hasn't gotten any better, but it hasn't gotten any worse, yet doesn't hurt or feel sore at rest. What seems strange to me -- but may not be strange at all -- is how I can't locate the source of the pain by feeling around the area, pressing on the tendon, etc. It only presents itself when curling my arm / flexing my biceps -- with or without weight -- with my wrist in a supinated or hammer-like position.
> 
> Let me know if you need to know anymore.


 Yeah, stay away from overhead cable curls and tricep extension if you have elbow issues.

It must be pretty extensive if you feel it when curling with no weight. You should get that looked at closer by a* sports medicine doctor*. I have chronic tennis elbow from an injury i sustained from MMA training 10 years ago. It comes and goes and flares up, but never to the point of affecting my training and one week off and it's back to normal.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Noticed you aren't the biggest fan of barbell curls, I was unaware of the stress they put the elbow under. is their any other particular exercises, that you really think should be completely avoided?
> 
> Wouldn't chin ups put the elbow in similar positioning to a barbell curl?


 If you feel comfortable doing the barbell curls and feel no pain or strain, keep doing it. I would always recommend not ego-lifting barbell curls though, do lighter weight with strict form and zero swing.

Chin ups are much more natural movement, i can even do them with my chronic tennis elbow with no issue. Barbell curl with strongly flare up my chronic injury.


----------



## ElChapo

DC1 said:


> @ElChapo regarding the use of Nizoral 2% shampoo, should this be used daily or what frequency do you recommend?
> 
> I'm not bald but hair is thinning a little and was wondering if this would be of much benefit.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 x 2 per week minimum, i use it daily as my shampoo. It is* incredible* for dandruff. The very best you can use for it.

It would definitely be of benefit, the best way to use it is to prevent/slow down hair loss. It has been shown to thicken thinned out hair as well.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Can you go into the steroids/estradiol & 5http thing a little more.
> 
> Been taking it sporadically over the last few years (after some heavy MDMA use in my yoof). Really helps me stay asleep longer (tho I wake earlier, but more refreshed).


 It's very complex, you need to be more specific with your question.


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> @ElChapo from this thread it is apparent that you rate Winstrol highly. I'm looking for a compound to lower SHBG on my next cycle and have only run Proviron previously. I was looking to run Winstrol at 50mg for 10-12 weeks with Tudca after seeing some of the advice in this thread but still worry about lowering of HDL. I naturally have both high LDL and HDL.
> 
> Question is, would Var at 50mg with Tudca be less harsh for me over the 12 weeks if my main concern is SHBG and anything else is just a bonus? Will be running with Test E and Deca.
> 
> Many thanks.


 Low HDL for 12 weeks or however long you will run your cycle will not affect your health. It is CHRONIC dyslipedemia that is one risk factor for coronary artery disease, the importance of which is overblown in the medical community based on flawed studies from the 60's where a scientist nitpicked data and left out the rest to support his theory of cholesterol/fat = heart disease.

Winstrol is better at everything that anavar does, including lowering SHBG. Masteron can do the same if you want something more mild than anavar. Most androgens will hit SHBG pretty hard, especially the more androgenic ones. Even testosterone can drop SHBG.

Thyroid hormone will usually increase it. People with hypothyroidism and diabetes tend to have lower SHBG than normal.


----------



## DC1

ElChapo said:


> x 2 per week minimum, i use it daily as my shampoo. It is* incredible* for dandruff. The very best you can use for it.
> 
> It would definitely be of benefit, the best way to use it is to prevent/slow down hair loss. It has been shown to thicken thinned out hair as well.


 Much appreciated.

I've been using it daily so will continue to do so. Cheers!


----------



## hardnfast

ElChapo said:


> Low HDL for 12 weeks or however long you will run your cycle will not affect your health. It is CHRONIC dyslipedemia that is one risk factor for coronary artery disease, the importance of which is overblown in the medical community based on flawed studies from the 60's where a scientist nitpicked data and left out the rest to support his theory of cholesterol/fat = heart disease.
> 
> Winstrol is better at everything that anavar does, including lowering SHBG. Masteron can do the same if you want something more mild than anavar. Most androgens will hit SHBG pretty hard, especially the more androgenic ones. Even testosterone can drop SHBG.
> 
> Thyroid hormone will usually increase it. People with hypothyroidism and diabetes tend to have lower SHBG than normal.


 Awesome. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

I think I will run Winstrol from the start then and see how I get on with it! Are there common causes for high SHBG? Mine was 82 nmol/L before touching any gear, went down to mid 30s with Test E and Proviron but I reckon is on the rise again (will check bloods in 4-6 weeks) as I am seeing a shift in body composition already just one week out of PCT.


----------



## ElChapo

DC1 said:


> Much appreciated.
> 
> I've been using it daily so will continue to do so. Cheers!


 Glad to help, nizoral 2% is a vastly underrated compound and i'm happy that people are starting to catch on.


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> Awesome. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
> 
> I think I will run Winstrol from the start then and see how I get on with it! Are there common causes for high SHBG? Mine was 82 nmol/L before touching any gear, went down to mid 30s with Test E and Proviron but I reckon is on the rise again (will check bloods in 4-6 weeks) as I am seeing a shift in body composition already just one week out of PCT.


 Genetics.

Enviromental factors:

SHBG has both enhancing and inhibiting hormonal influences. It decreases with high levels of insulin, growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), androgens, prolactin and transcortin. High estrogen, and thyroxine cause it to increase.


----------



## hardnfast

ElChapo said:


> Genetics.
> 
> Enviromental factors:
> 
> SHBG has both enhancing and inhibiting hormonal influences. It decreases with high levels of insulin, growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), androgens, prolactin and transcortin. High estrogen, and thyroxine cause it to increase.


 Great, thanks again!


----------



## ElChapo

hardnfast said:


> Great, thanks again!


 Anytime man


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> If you feel comfortable doing the barbell curls and feel no pain or strain, keep doing it. I would always recommend not ego-lifting barbell curls though, do lighter weight with strict form and zero swing.
> 
> Chin ups are much more natural movement, i can even do them with my chronic tennis elbow with no issue. Barbell curl with strongly flare up my chronic injury.


 I've never had a problem with them personally. I do prioritise form with everything I do, but I do implement heavy slight cheat barbell curls, so I might knock that on the head now you mention.

I have the opposite to a tennis elbow, a golfers elbow (inside elbow joint), I dropped any kind of tricep isolation movement, that aggravated it, skullcrushers are nasty for me to perform. but pressing movements in general, I find I sometimes have to train through any discomfort. any possible solution of how this can be minimised, even better cured?

Regarding MPB, I've read some spouted broscience, that as soon as you start a cycle, you greatly increase the speed of MPB, even if you was to then discontinue? the process would still be accelerated. True/False


----------



## GMO

are there any studies using eq/bold in humans that you know of @ElChapo, ?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> I've never had a problem with them personally. I do prioritise form with everything I do, but I do implement heavy slight cheat barbell curls, so I might knock that on the head now you mention.
> 
> I have the opposite to a tennis elbow, a golfers elbow (inside elbow joint), I dropped any kind of tricep isolation movement, that aggravated it, skullcrushers are nasty for me to perform. but pressing movements in general, I find I sometimes have to train through any discomfort. any possible solution of how this can be minimised, even better cured?
> 
> Regarding MPB, I've read some spouted broscience, that as soon as you start a cycle, you greatly increase the speed of MPB, even if you was to then discontinue? the process would still be accelerated. True/False


 Usually no cure other than surgery if it's chronic. Controlling flare ups and avoiding activities that strain it is your best bet. Mine never really goes away.

The MPB could be true but you can't say for sure. The high dose of androgens would most likely accelerate the process through androgenic gene expression. I think the theory has some weight.


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, stay away from overhead cable curls and tricep extension if you have elbow issues.
> 
> It must be pretty extensive if you feel it when curling with no weight. You should get that looked at closer. *I have chronic tennis elbow* from an injury i sustained from MMA training 10 years ago. It comes and goes and flares up, but never to the point of affecting my training and one week off and it's back to normal.


 I don't curl at all because of this. Completley fcuks my extensor (Carpi radialis longus & Carpi ulnaris) muscles in my right forearm. My bicep work comes from back day; that's good enough for me. The injury originated when I started using a mouse at work more frequently. Of all the things to give me such pain/discomfort it was a bloody computer mouse lol


----------



## Tricky

What's the max time to run dnp?

Would it be more beneficial to run 3 weeks on 3 week off followed by final 3 weeks on with t3 at 50mcg throughout and clen in 3 weeks off

or

6 weeks dnp 250mg with t3 50mcg, come off t3 5 days post dnp and start clen?

Thanks

@ElChapo


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

hey brother saw you loved 1/2 inch pins or slin pins for injecting... can you get away with using one for glutes ? or possibly 7/8?

also.. i have a wiked tooth infection, and just started taking anti biotics, can anti biotics have any bad effects with bodybuilding in general ? maybe cause bloating, or anything that can effect gains ?

also maybe a dumb question,but can i use natural peanut butter as a source of fat ? i also get fat from eggs, meat, and olive oil - just heard that peanut butter is a fat that should be a source to keep away from whilst cutting < could be nonsense but worth the ask


----------



## Jordan08

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey brother saw you loved 1/2 inch pins or slin pins for injecting... can you get away with using one for glutes ? or possibly 7/8?
> 
> also.. i have a wiked tooth infection, and just started taking anti biotics, can anti biotics have any bad effects with bodybuilding in general ? maybe cause bloating, or anything that can effect gains ?
> 
> also maybe a dumb question,but can i use natural peanut butter as a source of fat ? i also get fat from eggs, meat, and olive oil - just heard that peanut butter is a fat that should be a source to keep away from whilst cutting < could be nonsense but worth the ask


 Only because a spoon of peanut butter can be 120 calories as well as 450 calories. It's hard to measure. That's why it wouldn't be a good idea to include it in cutting phase.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Definitely, AAS can affect serotenergic and dopamineric neurotransmission, tons of research verifying this.
> 
> Did you always have issues with depression, do you have any social stress, financial difficulties or body image issues? Did you ever check your hormones before taking steroids?
> 
> Aromasin will not directly interfere with SSRI's but estradiol is important for serotonergic function in the brain, it directly affects the 5-HTTP receptors.
> 
> This is why tren, deca, and test can have such dramatic effects on mood, energy, and cognition in people.


 I'm 36 and was in a 12 year relationship from 19-31 years old, have a son etc. I'd say we had the usual strains, money etc and that relationship ended four years ago but I have a good relationship with her and my son. I've been using aas for 9 years and the only change I personally noticed in that time was that I would pay more attention to nutrition and also actually turning up at the gym, so motivation was higher to stick to things.

If I ever ran test too high I would get BP issues, and if I ran tren enth I could have the tren aides. It's just the last several months I've cracked and admitted I need to remove certain variables and control the "controlables" so to speak, so thought try, get bloods and ask if there is anything else I can do?

On a side note, a female friend ask anavar or winny, and if so, what doseage? Cheers for the advice


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey brother saw you loved 1/2 inch pins or slin pins for injecting... can you get away with using one for glutes ? or possibly 7/8?
> 
> also.. i have a wiked tooth infection, and just started taking anti biotics, can anti biotics have any bad effects with bodybuilding in general ? maybe cause bloating, or anything that can effect gains ?
> 
> also maybe a dumb question,but can i use natural peanut butter as a source of fat ? i also get fat from eggs, meat, and olive oil - just heard that peanut butter is a fat that should be a source to keep away from whilst cutting < could be nonsense but worth the ask


 The pin you can get away with will come down to how lean you are, so it depends.

Antibiotics should have minimal effect.

Calories in/calories out = fat loss / muscle gain. The source is irrelevant.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> What's the max time to run dnp?
> 
> Would it be more beneficial to run 3 weeks on 3 week off followed by final 3 weeks on with t3 at 50mcg throughout and clen in 3 weeks off
> 
> or
> 
> 6 weeks dnp 250mg with t3 50mcg, come off t3 5 days post dnp and start clen?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> @ElChapo


 4-6 weeks typically, depending on tolerance and dosage. That should be more than enough time to see substantial fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Only because a spoon of peanut butter can be 120 calories as well as 450 calories. It's hard to measure. That's why it wouldn't be a good idea to include it in cutting phase.


 I would never EVER have peanut butter in any cutting plan, period. Too calorically dense and not satiating at all.

Unless it's part of a dessert you are fitting into your caloric intake.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I'm 36 and was in a 12 year relationship from 19-31 years old, have a son etc. I'd say we had the usual strains, money etc and that relationship ended four years ago but I have a good relationship with her and my son. I've been using aas for 9 years and the only change I personally noticed in that time was that I would pay more attention to nutrition and also actually turning up at the gym, so motivation was higher to stick to things.
> 
> If I ever ran test too high I would get BP issues, and if I ran tren enth I could have the tren aides. It's just the last several months I've cracked and admitted I need to remove certain variables and control the "controlables" so to speak, so thought try, get bloods and ask if there is anything else I can do?
> 
> On a side note, a female friend ask anavar or winny, and if so, what doseage? Cheers for the advice


 Anything else you can do about what?

For females, 5-10 mg winstrol daily for beginners. I would only recommend it to a female with a strong background bodybuilding naturally, you gotta learn the basics first.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Hi @ElChapo

Please could you rate the following in rank order for sheer anabolism i.e., their ability to build muscle:



Testosterone


Nandrolone


Trenbolone


Boldenone


Anavar


Winstrol


Anything else I might have missed that is well rated by you personally.


I know I can technically get this information from e.g. steroid.com, but I'm very interested to hear your view. For instance, I have been using 1g EQ weekly for 6 weeks now and frankly have noticed absolutely nothing over an above what I would gain/feel/perform on a TRT-style cruise of 150mg test. Then, by introducing tren ace 50mg EOD for like 2 weeks, suddenly I'm starting to make progress... stronger, fuller, heavier, (and yet leaner)!

My goal is maximum lean tissue accretion in the fastest possible time.

Massive thanks.


----------



## Mayzini

Thoughts guys got a long cut have dnp in the stockpile should not sufficient fat but now wondering if I would be better running the dnp now for 4 weeks 18% bf and then moving back to clen. T3 run at 50mg all the way through with 3iu of hgh 5days out of 7. Just wondering if throwing it ke is a good idea or just to save it for 8 weeks out or so and see where things are at and use it then at a lower bf


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo not sure if it's something you'd be able to answer but what's your thoughts on returning to training after gyno surgery?

I've been advised 3 weeks until I can do light leg work and then 4-5 before upper body

My understanding is this is to do with cauterised arteries not being able to handle elevated bp but even so do you think the 3 week for lower and 5 week for upper is just covering their asses?

I'm using bromelain, zinc, vit c, gh and mk677

Also eating 'clean' (for want of a better word)


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Please could you rate the following in rank order for sheer anabolism i.e., their ability to build muscle:
> 
> 
> 
> Testosterone
> 
> 
> Nandrolone
> 
> 
> Trenbolone
> 
> 
> Boldenone
> 
> 
> Anavar
> 
> 
> Winstrol
> 
> 
> Anything else I might have missed that is well rated by you personally.
> 
> 
> I know I can technically get this information from e.g. steroid.com, but I'm very interested to hear your view. For instance, I have been using 1g EQ weekly for 6 weeks now and frankly have noticed absolutely nothing over an above what I would gain/feel/perform on a TRT-style cruise of 150mg test. Then, by introducing tren ace 50mg EOD for like 2 weeks, suddenly I'm starting to make progress... stronger, fuller, heavier, (and yet leaner)!
> 
> My goal is maximum lean tissue accretion in the fastest possible time.
> 
> Massive thanks.


 Thanks for the question, i like this one.

Test/Deca ( More tissue building/recovery )

Trenbolone/Winstrol ( More strength/drying )

EQ is fairly weak, winstrol is like anavar on steroids and a much better value in terms of mg to $.

I rank those as the highest personally, when caloric surplus+progressive overload are being observed (Your two *most* anabolic stimuli)

Keep it simple, you don't need fancy cycles/stacks to get muscle. Throw in a moderate-high dose AAS, eat more than you burn, and get stronger in all your lifts. You will grow, guaranteed. Then get low body fat, your physique will look great. It's a simple formula that too many overthink.

Depending on your experience level, Do a Test/Tren/Winstrol cycle, 300-600 mg of each. Most importantly, find your estimated TDEE and aim to gain .5 lbs of weight per week, and FOCUS strongly on increase your weight and reps in every exercise that you do. Add 5-10 lbs to your squats/leg press etc every week, if you are curling 50's on db bicep curl, aim for a strict 60's for reps. Etc. You do this, i *guarantee* you will gain quality muscle. Muscle built with strength will hold a lot easier on TRT/Cruise or post-PCT.


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> Thoughts guys got a long cut have dnp in the stockpile should not sufficient fat but now wondering if I would be better running the dnp now for 4 weeks 18% bf and then moving back to clen. T3 run at 50mg all the way through with 3iu of hgh 5days out of 7. Just wondering if throwing it ke is a good idea or just to save it for 8 weeks out or so and see where things are at and use it then at a lower bf


 Personally, i would blast the DNP to get down to 12% to kickstart the fat loss, then cycle in the other fat burners to finish the cut or reintroduce DNP later to get to your desired body fat percentage.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo not sure if it's something you'd be able to answer but what's your thoughts on returning to training after gyno surgery?
> 
> I've been advised 3 weeks until I can do light leg work and then 4-5 before upper body
> 
> My understanding is this is to do with cauterised arteries not being able to handle elevated bp but even so do you think the 3 week for lower and 5 week for upper is just covering their asses?
> 
> I'm using bromelain, zinc, vit c, gh and mk677
> 
> Also eating 'clean' (for want of a better word)


 That sounds about right for recovery time.

Your supplement stack looks great, a slight caloric surplus will also help.

I guess eating clean will help you get more micronutrients that might help with the healing as well. Looks good to me, congratulations on getting that cut out.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

How much can aas affect weight/fat loss... as in holding weight? I know to lose bf you have to take in less kcals than you burn in a day or up neat.

Basically i track everything down to the T... training/nutrition/weigh/neat/cardio etc... so my previous preps i know exactly were i am at... always been like clockwork. Ive always managed to lose 0.5/1lb pw but this was when i was natty.

This is my 1st year using aas for a prep and I'm exactly 14lbs heavier than this exact day last year, my calories are 350 higher at this point (defo holding alot more tissue and not fat) and would assume my tdee has incresed considerably but the SCALE weight isnt budging much, i know we shouldn't always use this but its a good indicator to weight loss


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> Personally, i would blast the DNP to get down to 12% to kickstart the fat loss, then cycle in the other fat burners to finish the cut or reintroduce DNP later to get to your desired body fat percentage.


 Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> How much can aas affect weight/fat loss... as in holding weight? I know to lose bf you have to take in less kcals than you burn in a day or up neat.
> 
> Basically i track everything down to the T... training/nutrition/weigh/neat/cardio etc... so my previous preps i know exactly were i am at... always been like clockwork. Ive always managed to lose 0.5/1lb pw but this was when i was natty.
> 
> This is my 1st year using aas for a prep and I'm exactly 14lbs heavier than this exact day last year, my calories are 350 higher at this point (defo holding alot more tissue and not fat) and would assume my tdee has incresed considerably but the SCALE weight isnt budging much, i know we shouldn't always use this but its a good indicator to weight loss


 AAS don't affect TDEE, they can enhance weightloss coming from fat instead of muscle, keep energy and strength levels up on a diet, etc.

Now, someone with low testosterone with low energy levels/depression is going to have a much lower TDEE than a guy who has energy and stays active.

I find that when you don't control E2, it seems to be harder to lose fat, this is not only due the water retention but the fact that estradiol upregulates alpha adrenergic 2 receptors in the adipocytes. The opposite effect of yohimbine.

Otherwise, if you are stalling after 2-3 weeks, subtract 200 calories from your daily intake. This will usually break the weight loss plateau, as you cut and get more lean, your body slows down your metabolism in response, so your TDEE gets lower and lower as you get leaner despite your activity levels and weight. This is why maintaining 7% is so much harder than 12%.


----------



## Jordan08

How do you see milk as a source of protein?

Currently, my protein sources are eggs, chicken and fish.

I am thinking of adding milk into my meal routines and getting around 20-30gms of protein from low fat milk. My total protein intake is around 150gms.


----------



## Baka

Hey Elchapo , happy to see that someone can maybe answer to my questions since i'm really interested in AAS/supplements , so here are my questions :

-How to counter small progestin effects from winny and it's anxiety ? i'm really gyno prone , i use letro as my AI on test/mast cycle.

-How to reduce progesterone build up in the body? Caber only decrease prolactin , and increase progesterone .

-How to reduce Progesterone gyno ? the one that builds fat around the nipple and make them look like tits .

-Does masteron have small progestin effects like winny ?

-Could high E2 from AAS or Dbol for exemple could decrease progesterone levels in the body from excess E2?

-Is nebido 1000mg good for TRT if you can only jab every 2-3 months ?

Thank you


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> AAS don't affect TDEE, they can enhance weightloss coming from fat instead of muscle, keep energy and strength levels up on a diet, etc.
> 
> Now, someone with low testosterone with low energy levels/depression is going to have a much lower TDEE than a guy who has energy and stays active.
> 
> I find that when you don't control E2, it seems to be harder to lose fat, this is not only due the water retention but the fact that estradiol upregulates alpha adrenergic 2 receptors in the adipocytes. The opposite effect of yohimbine.
> 
> Otherwise, if you are stalling after 2-3 weeks, subtract 200 calories from your daily intake. This will usually break the weight loss plateau, as you cut and get more lean, your body slows down your metabolism in response, so your TDEE gets lower and lower as you get leaner despite your activity levels and weight. This is why maintaining 7% is so much harder than 12%.


 I was actually thinking that my E2 might be on the slightly higher end as some days im holding more water than others.

I'm currently taking 0.5adex eod on 300test/300tren/400mast so i wouldnt say it's very high compared to my doses? but i know e2 is person dependant and everyone converts at different levels. also been on 20nolva ed for gyno. I must of told you a dozen times what my stack is lol don't know if you remember from my previous posts lol


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> I was actually thinking that my E2 might be on the slightly higher end as some days im holding more water than others.
> 
> I'm currently taking 0.5adex eod on 300test/300tren/400mast so i wouldnt say it's very high compared to my doses? but i know e2 is person dependant and everyone converts at different levels. also been on 20nolva ed for gyno. I must of told you a dozen times what my stack is lol don't know if you remember from my previous posts lol


 Exactly, person dependent. Most will feel, look and perform best between 20-42 pg/mL.

Nolva/ralox can cause water retention in some people as well. Ralox makes me hold water.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> How do you see milk as a source of protein?
> 
> Currently, my protein sources are eggs, chicken and fish.
> 
> I am thinking of adding milk into my meal routines and getting around 20-30gms of protein from low fat milk. My total protein intake is around 150gms.


 I am a dairy fiend, i love dairy. One of the most nutrient dense foods. Tons of protein, calcium, and electrolytes (potassium/sodium)

It can make some people hold a bit of water due to the hydrating effect, but dairy is great and i love dairy in general in terms of preference and taste.

When Arnold said "milk is for babies" i am 90% sure he was trolling, giving fake advice on purpose. Just my opinion.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Hey Elchapo , happy to see that someone can maybe answer to my questions since i'm really interested in AAS/supplements , so here are my questions :
> 
> -How to counter small progestin effects from winny and it's anxiety ? i'm really gyno prone , i use letro as my AI on test/mast cycle.
> 
> -How to reduce progesterone build up in the body? Caber only decrease prolactin , and increase progesterone .
> 
> -How to reduce Progesterone gyno ? the one that builds fat around the nipple and make them look like tits .
> 
> -Does masteron have small progestin effects like winny ?
> 
> -Is nebido 1000mg good for TRT if you can only jab every 2-3 months ?
> 
> Thank you


 Real winstrol should cause zero gyno. Dbol is gyno fuel.

If you are sensitive to 19nor gyno, find the dose that doesnt give you gyno, avoid them completely, or run raloxifene 60 mg on cycle to prevent or post-cycle to reverse the gyno.

Winny/mast do not cause progestin effects, period.

Nebido should be pinned every 1-4 weeks max. The NHS is back asswards on this, just look up the pharmacokinetics in a textbook.

Some docs even think its okay for a 21 year old to have the test levels of a 90 year old man. Be your own advocate and do research.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Exactly, person dependent. Most will feel, look and perform best between 20-42 pg/mL.
> 
> Nolva/ralox can cause water retention in some people as well. Ralox makes me hold water.


 The puffness of my gyno has maybe reduced 20/30% since running nolva ed for the past 3ish weeks, how long would you say to carry nolva on once gyno has reduced near 100%?


----------



## Goranchero

Whats your take on injectable yohimbine hcl versus oral? Any noticable advantage?


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> The puffness of my gyno has maybe reduced 20/30% since running nolva ed for the past 3ish weeks, how long would you say to carry nolva on once gyno has reduced near 100%?


 You can stop once it's gone. 12 weeks is the most you would likely need. It depends how bad and how fresh the gyno is, and ralox does work more effectively.

Running nolva on cycle will also limit how effective it is at eliminating gyno if E2 is high or there is 19nor in the mix.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> You can stop once it's gone. 12 weeks is the most you would likely need. It depends how bad and how fresh the gyno is, and ralox does work more effectively.
> 
> Running nolva on cycle will also limit how effective it is at eliminating gyno if E2 is high or there is 19nor in the mix.


 Tren is in the mix... if I'm running adex eod at 0.5 how would it be best to slighly increase the dose... Extra 0.25mg on pin days? (Pinning 2x pe btw) So from 2g pw to 2.5g pw

I'd like to have the lower end if e2 without crashing it, obvs blood work would give me the answer.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Tren is in the mix... if I'm running adex eod at 0.5 how would it be best to slighly increase the dose... Extra 0.25mg on pin days? (Pinning 2x pe btw) So from 2g pw to 2.5g pw
> 
> I'd like to have the lower end if e2 without crashing it, obvs blood work would give me the answer.


 If you are pinning twice per week, take 1 mg adex with your injections. 2 mg per week total. No need to do adex EOD.

You need blood work to know for sure. The efficacy of the nolvadex is going to be limited since you are currently running tren, but it should stop it from growing. You are fortunate that it is actually reversing somewhat.


----------



## ElChapo

Goranchero said:


> Whats your take on injectable yohimbine hcl versus oral? Any noticable advantage?


 Oral dose the job fine and it's one less injection. Not worth the hassle.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> If you are pinning twice per week, take 1 mg adex with your injections. 2 mg per week total. No need to do adex EOD.
> 
> You need blood work to know for sure. The efficacy of the nolvadex is going to be limited since you are currently running tren, but it should stop it from growing. You are fortunate that it is actually reversing somewhat.


 I would say its reduced if only slightly, but the problem is I'm in a contest prep so i can't be stepping on stage with puffy nips, some say the puffyness goes down as we get between 4/6% bf and others say it can look worse.

I'm 10 weeks out today and was thinking of actually dropping the offending compound (tren) for something else? I'm in a weird way enjoying tren and wkuld be a shame to drop it but if its going to make my gyno worse or not reduce while on then its probably the smart thing to do.

What would be a good alternative for a contest prep? Already running mast and just started winnie.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> I would say its reduced if only slightly, but the problem is I'm in a contest prep so i can't be stepping on stage with puffy nips, some say the puffyness goes down as we get between 4/6% bf and others say it can look worse.
> 
> I'm 10 weeks out today and was thinking of actually dropping the offending compound (tren) for something else? I'm in a weird way enjoying tren and wkuld be a shame to drop it but if its going to make my gyno worse or not reduce while on then its probably the smart thing to do.
> 
> What would be a good alternative for a contest prep? Already running mast and just started winnie.


 It will look better in the 8-10% range and worse once you get <7%, because the skin is tight and no subcutaneous fat, the gland really pops out.

How much tren are you taking? past 200 mg tren ace per week is my gyno threshold.

High dose winstrol+masteron will cover you fine for the tren though. What doses were you going to run into prep of each including tren?


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Although I love tren, and was going to just bulk on test tren this winter, I've changed my mind because of shoulder injuries

Ive been plagued by shoulder issues for many years, had MRI's with dye etc which showed inconclusive - they thought perhaps a small subscapilaris tear and suggested surgery to see if it helps.

Instead I opted out, and have managed to train for the last few years by training smartly around it, and have been seeing chiropractor/physio for a year for rehab which has helped.

I just can't do any pressing and minimal weight for other push excercises, but have still progressed physique wise through tut and high rep progression on cable flys etc.

I want to give this one last shot using everything I can to see if I can sort it once and for all with the help of PEDs. I recently ran 2 months of TB500 and BPC which did slightly improve it I feel.

I want to run an effective blast of drugs that give me the best chance.

Im thinking test 250mg, deca 500mg and possibly VAR 50mg (remember seeing a study on its connective tissue healing properties I think).

i will run tb500 and BPC again throughout.

Ive decided cost is not really an issue and so am willing to also try GH. I'm only 23 and not really looked into it (will do now over the coming months) but can you suggest a dosing protocol to help?

In short - test 300/deca 500/var 50mg/tb500/BPC/Growth

can you suggest any amendments/ideas ?

ive never run deca or GH as stated.

Thanks mate hope this didn't waffle on too much!


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> It will look better in the 8-10% range and worse once you get <7%, because the skin is tight and no subcutaneous fat, the gland really pops out.
> 
> How much tren are you taking? past 200 mg tren ace per week is my gyno threshold.
> 
> High dose winstrol+masteron will cover you fine for the tren though. What doses were you going to run into prep of each including tren?


 The actual gland is only half a pea size so once i lose the subq fat i dont think it will look too bad.

200mg tren e the first 3/4 weeks, then increased to 300 last 2 pins

400mast e and 350mg winni for the remaining 10 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> How do you see milk as a source of protein?
> 
> Currently, my protein sources are eggs, chicken and fish.
> 
> I am thinking of adding milk into my meal routines and getting around 20-30gms of protein from low fat milk. My total protein intake is around 150gms.


 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3991029/


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Although I love tren, and was going to just bulk on test tren this winter, I've changed my mind because of shoulder injuries
> 
> Ive been plagued by shoulder issues for many years, had MRI's with dye etc which showed inconclusive - they thought perhaps a small subscapilaris tear and suggested surgery to see if it helps.
> 
> Instead I opted out, and have managed to train for the last few years by training smartly around it, and have been seeing chiropractor/physio for a year for rehab which has helped.
> 
> I just can't do any pressing and minimal weight for other push excercises, but have still progressed physique wise through tut and high rep progression on cable flys etc.
> 
> I want to give this one last shot using everything I can to see if I can sort it once and for all with the help of PEDs. I recently ran 2 months of TB500 and BPC which did slightly improve it I feel.
> 
> I want to run an effective blast of drugs that give me the best chance.
> 
> Im thinking test 250mg, deca 500mg and possibly VAR 50mg (remember seeing a study on its connective tissue healing properties I think).
> 
> i will run tb500 and BPC again throughout.
> 
> Ive decided cost is not really an issue and so am willing to also try GH. I'm only 23 and not really looked into it (will do now over the coming months) but can you suggest a dosing protocol to help?
> 
> In short - test 300/deca 500/var 50mg/tb500/BPC/Growth
> 
> can you suggest any amendments/ideas ?
> 
> ive never run deca or GH as stated.
> 
> Thanks mate hope this didn't waffle on too much!


 If it's this bad and 3 months rest hasn't healed it, you will likely surgery.

My friend is a fighter and he some nasty tear in his shoulder, he did get the surgery and he is training hard to this day. Before the surgery, he had issues with benching and he had to use a board to limit ROM for his shoulders. Now he can train no problem.

I would not keep trying to push it if it's not getting better. How much total rest time have you given the injury? ( i mean 100% no training)

What causes your shoulder injury?


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> The actual gland is only half a pea size so once i lose the subq fat i dont think it will look too bad.
> 
> 200mg tren e the first 3/4 weeks, then increased to 300 last 2 pins
> 
> 400mast e and 350mg winni for the remaining 10 weeks.


 Likely not, if you don't have a disc-like gland, it won't be obvious. usually a lump will start on one size as pea sized gland and eventually develops into a glandular disc behind the nipple.

Do 400 mg mast E and 700 winstrol. The extra winstrol will more than compensate for the trenbolone. I suggest 250 mg tudca with it.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> If it's this bad and 3 months rest hasn't healed it, you will likely surgery.
> 
> My friend is a fighter and he some nasty tear in his shoulder, he did get the surgery and he is training hard to this day. Before the surgery, he had issues with benching and he had to use a board to limit ROM for his shoulders. Now he can train no problem.
> 
> I would not keep trying to push it if it's not getting better. How much total rest time have you given the injury? ( i mean 100% no training)
> 
> What causes your shoulder injury?


 Awkward angles of shoulder rotation/heavy pressing movements.

I had 10 months 0 training and it still did not get better.

Both my chiropractor and physio think I don't need surgery just rehab, which I've been doing for months.

As I said, the scan 2 years ago, they couldn't really tell me what was wrong.

In fact, the surgeon said "we will have to open you up and see if we can get to the bottom of it".

Kinda put me off.

Edit - overhead pressing is nowhere near as bad, however.

Its horizontal - chest movements


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Awkward angles of shoulder rotation/heavy pressing movements.
> 
> I had 10 months 0 training and it still did not get better.
> 
> Both my chiropractor and physio think I don't need surgery just rehab, which I've been doing for months.
> 
> As I said, the scan 2 years ago, they couldn't really tell me what was wrong.
> 
> In fact, the surgeon said "we will have to open you up and see if we can get to the bottom of it".
> 
> Kinda put me off.
> 
> Edit - overhead pressing is nowhere near as bad, however.
> 
> Its horizontal - chest movements


 I can see what you mean, it seems bad though that it hasn't gotten better with the rehab, and it would make sense for chiropractor and physio to want to keep you as a patient, cause if you got surgery, eventually you might not need them. It's a business thing.

Could you get a consultation from a different surgeon?


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> I can see what you mean, it seems bad though that it hasn't gotten better with the rehab, and it would make sense for chiropractor and physio to want to keep you as a patient, cause if you got surgery, eventually you might not need them. It's a business thing.
> 
> Could you get a consultation from a different surgeon?


 I could go private I guess.

This was on the NHS a few years ago, I'll look into it mate.

unless I go back to gp and say it's got really bad again,

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> I could go private I guess.
> 
> This was on the NHS a few years ago, I'll look into it mate.
> 
> unless I go back to gp and say it's got really bad again,
> 
> Thanks


 You can try private or do NHS route again, should be a different doc. If it hasn't better, it's not going to most likely.


----------



## superdrol

Care to cast your eye on this thread and give some input, I'm speaking based on what i believe I've learned in this thread but I'm not 100% and would appreciate you adding an expert perspective and maybe correcting me if I'm not quite right on stuff

i believe someone tagged you but not 100% @El Chapo thanks

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/301917-first-steroid-cycle-on-sustanon-250/?do=embed


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Care to cast your eye on this thread and give some input, I'm speaking based on what i believe I've learned in this thread but I'm not 100% and would appreciate you adding an expert perspective and maybe correcting me if I'm not quite right on stuff
> 
> i believe someone tagged you but not 100% @El Chapo thanks
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/301917-first-steroid-cycle-on-sustanon-250/?do=embed


 Sustanon will still provide results at once per week in terms of anabolic effect. Is it optimal? No, because the shorter esters won't make it to the end of the week.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3991029/


 Thanks a lot for the read mate. I am going to add 500ml of low fat milk in my breakfast from now onwards with a scoop of whey in it.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> .2 mg per kg, on empty stomach.


 Thanks @ElChapo :beer:


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo just a thanks again for the continued advice on behalf of everyone - UKM should be paying you something 

I'm on 150mg test 400mg tren e, 20mg EPI, no major sides all good.

However, I am struggling to get a full deep night sleep due to the amount of times I need to get up and go to the loo - literally like 5-10 times.

I drink a lot of water (5l+ a day) as I feel it's beneficial health wise for many reasons and also I do constantly have a slight dry mouth from the amitrpytline I'm on.

Is there anything I can do apart from the obvious drink less etc lol?


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo what do you think about P.H.U.L training system?

Monday/Tuesday = Upper/Lower power training (5x5)

Rest

Thursday/Friday = Upper/Lower hypertrophy training (4x10)

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo just a thanks again for the continued advice on behalf of everyone - UKM should be paying you something
> 
> I'm on 150mg test 400mg tren e, 20mg EPI, no major sides all good.
> 
> However, I am struggling to get a full deep night sleep due to the amount of times I need to get up and go to the loo - literally like 5-10 times.
> 
> I drink a lot of water (5l+ a day) as I feel it's beneficial health wise for many reasons and also I do constantly have a slight dry mouth from the amitrpytline I'm on.
> 
> Is there anything I can do apart from the obvious drink less etc lol?


 Are you already taking cialis?

Avoid the water in the evening so you flush most of it out by the time you go to bed. If there isn't a lot of urine in your bladder, you will likely get up 1-2 at most.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo what do you think about P.H.U.L training system?
> 
> Monday/Tuesday = Upper/Lower power training (5x5)
> 
> Rest
> 
> Thursday/Friday = Upper/Lower hypertrophy training (4x10)
> 
> Thanks


 Anything that allows you to progress in your weight and that you enjoy will work.

That doesn't seem like a bad routine at all, if you are getting stronger on it, you will grow, especially with the hypertrophy/volume in the mix.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Are you already taking cialis?
> 
> Avoid the water in the evening so you flush most of it out by the time you go to bed. If there isn't a lot of urine in your bladder, you will likely get up 1-2 at most.


 Yes mate 10mg eod

Ill try and reduce evening consumption then!


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Yes mate 10mg eod
> 
> Ill try and reduce evening consumption then!


 Should fix the issue, less pee in the bladder = less peeing.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo Could you explain the differences between different types of Nandrolone (NNP, decanoate, ecc...)?


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo Could you explain the differences between different types of Nandrolone (NNP, decanoate, ecc...)?


 *NPP*- Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. Fast acting, can kick in 2 weeks. Half life roughly 2-4 days in most people. Should be pinned x 2-x 3 per week.

Max concentration: 200-250 mg/mL

*Deca*- Nandrolone Decanoate. Kicks in slow but very long half life. Roughly 7-14 days in most people. Can be pinned every 1-2 weeks.

Max concentration : 300-400 mg/mL

The only difference is the half-life, pinning frequency and the concentration per mL attainable without significant PIP or crashing. Anecdotally, many will tell you NPP causes less water retention than deca.

I recommend NPP for first time users of nandrolone, women ( in case you have to drop it quickly due to side effects) and people who don't want to wait a long time to feel/see the effects. For HRT/Cruise/Medicinal purposes, i recommend deca, very convenient in terms of half-life and volume pinned.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Thanks for the question, i like this one.
> 
> Test/Deca ( More tissue building/recovery )
> 
> Trenbolone/Winstrol ( More strength/drying )
> 
> EQ is fairly weak, winstrol is like anavar on steroids and a much better value in terms of mg to $.
> 
> I rank those as the highest personally, when caloric surplus+progressive overload are being observed (Your two *most* anabolic stimuli)
> 
> Keep it simple, you don't need fancy cycles/stacks to get muscle. Throw in a moderate-high dose AAS, eat more than you burn, and get stronger in all your lifts. You will grow, guaranteed. Then get low body fat, your physique will look great. It's a simple formula that too many overthink.
> 
> Depending on your experience level, Do a Test/Tren/Winstrol cycle, 300-600 mg of each. Most importantly, find your estimated TDEE and aim to gain .5 lbs of weight per week, and FOCUS strongly on increase your weight and reps in every exercise that you do. Add 5-10 lbs to your squats/leg press etc every week, if you are curling 50's on db bicep curl, aim for a strict 60's for reps. Etc. You do this, i *guarantee* you will gain quality muscle. Muscle built with strength will hold a lot easier on TRT/Cruise or post-PCT.


 @ElChapo

Thank you so much!

So, I am dropping the EQ in favour of NPP (time is against me).

I compete in BJJ and am hitting up the World Masters in Vegas in late August... so winstrol's joint issues aren't something I can risk, plus tren was a fabulous compound that I really get on with, but at >200mg/week my cardio really suffers.

Plan now is 750 test e, 600 NPP.

*Final Q (I hope)*: can take the NPP over 2 days (as I split my test into 2x injections per week, I could slam it in the same barrel), or is 3 days / EOD significantly better?

I suppose if EOD is best (which based on your views expressed previously, I'm guessing it is), I could use SG test e 300 and SG NPP 200:

That would be 2.5ml test e and 3ml NPP per week, which means ([2.5+3]x2)/14 = 0.8ml EOD. I could slin pin that I guess! YAY!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thank you so much!
> 
> So, I am dropping the EQ in favour of NPP (time is against me).
> 
> I compete in BJJ and am hitting up the World Masters in Vegas in late August... so winstrol's joint issues aren't something I can risk, plus tren was a fabulous compound that I really get on with, but at >200mg/week my cardio really suffers.
> 
> Plan now is 750 test e, 600 NPP.
> 
> *Final Q (I hope)*: can take the NPP over 2 days (as I split my test into 2x injections per week, I could slam it in the same barrel), or is 3 days / EOD significantly better?
> 
> I suppose if EOD is best (which based on your views expressed previously, I'm guessing it is), I could use SG test e 300 and SG NPP 200:
> 
> That would be 2.5ml test e and 3ml NPP per week, which means ([2.5+3]x2)/14 = 0.8ml EOD. I could slin pin that I guess! YAY!


 Same here, <200 mg tren ace is my cardio threshold. My stamina feels pretty good at 200 per week actually.

Not at all, x 2 per week will do you fine with NPP, barring you being a very fast metabolizer of sex hormones, and even then you would still be fine.


----------



## Pancake'

How would you maximise building forearms? would you bother training them directly?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> How would you maximise building forearms? would you bother training them directly?


 Training them directly will help a lot(high volume wrist curls), but heavy lifting will usually bring them up well. (Deadlifting/rows/weighted chin ups/ with no straps and even heavy bicep curls)

I also highly recommend Captains of Crush grippers. These are the #1 gold standard in grippers. They are made in the USA, all steel. Most men cannot close a # 1 CoC gripper, even those who lift. Very few men have ever closed a #3 gripper(300 lbs of force to close it). Anything above #2 gripper represents elite gripping strength. Anything above that is insane strength. They are a fantastic forearm and functional strength workout.

http://ironmind.com/product-info/grip-strength-training-tools/captains-of-crush-grippers/


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Same here, <200 mg tren ace is my cardio threshold. My stamina feels pretty good at 200 per week actually.
> 
> Not at all, x 2 per week will do you fine with NPP, barring you being a very fast metabolizer of sex hormones, and even then you would still be fine.


 Amazing! Thank you so much. Let's get this party started!!!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Amazing! Thank you so much. Let's get this party started!!!


 NPP is great, you will see a big difference from EQ even at a lower dosage.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Training them directly will help a lot, but heavy lifting will usually bring them up well. (Deadlifting/rows/weighted chin ups/ with no straps and even heavy bicep curls)
> 
> I also highly recommend Captains of Crush grippers. These are the #1 gold standard in grippers. They are made in the USA, all steel. Most men cannot close a # 1 CoC gripper, even those who lift. Very few men have ever closed a #3 gripper(300 lbs of force to close it). Anything above #2 gripper represents elite gripping strength. Anything above that is insane strength. They are a fantastic forearm and functional strength workout.
> 
> http://ironmind.com/product-info/grip-strength-training-tools/captains-of-crush-grippers/


 http://wringitout.com

I use CoCs, nails, and this thing ^^^ is absolutely a killer, too.

Or you could take up BJJ in the gi. Skin-splitting pump!!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> http://wringitout.com
> 
> I use CoCs, nails, and this thing ^^^ is absolutely a killer, too.
> 
> Or you could take up BJJ in the gi. Skin-splitting pump!!


 Yeah, rolling with a GI will build up grip strength a ton and all those grip training tools will benefit GI and No-gi grappling immensely. When you grapple No-Gi and you and your opponent start sweating, that's when great grip strength really shines. If he can't hold on to you but you can, it's a huge advantage.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, rolling with a GI will build up grip strength a ton and all those grip training tools will benefit GI and No-gi grappling immensely. When you grapple No-Gi and you and your opponent start sweating, that's when great grip strength really shines. If he can't hold on to you but you can, it's a huge advantage.


 Yep. I shave my arms for nogi. #slippy


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Yep. I shave my arms for nogi. #slippy


 I like to stay trim too, i'm not metro but i don't like being too hairy. Shaving can easily make you look 2-3% body fat leaner lmao


----------



## Tricky

When and how do you come off t3? For example I'm 8 weeks deep into a cut and using 50mcg t3 daily with my test 300mg per week. I'm down 22.4lbs, I'm going on holiday 4th sept should I taper off before then or should I bring t3 with me on holidays and then carry on for a week or two cutting when I return to lose the holiday weight then taper t3 or quit completely post holiday?

Sorry for the long question I've just never got lean before and I'm terrified of rebounding after 16 weeks hard work to get hopefully 35/40lbs of lard off me

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> When and how do you come off t3? For example I'm 8 weeks deep into a cut and using 50mcg t3 daily with my test 300mg per week. I'm down 22.4lbs, I'm going on holiday 4th sept should I taper off before then or should I bring t3 with me on holidays and then carry on for a week or two cutting when I return to lose the holiday weight then taper t3 or quit completely post holiday?
> 
> Sorry for the long question I've just never got lean before and I'm terrified of rebounding after 16 weeks hard work to get hopefully 35/40lbs of lard off me
> 
> @ElChapo


 The only way you will rebound is if you are in a caloric surplus after you get lean.

Run the T3 through your vacation definitely. Fast in the mornings so that you can eat bigger meals later.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo since I lost 2 stone from norovirus late last year every time I eat something I sweat profusely as if im on DNP.

It makes no difference what I eat I still sweat loads any idea why this is ?

On a plus note I seem to be keeping leaner than I used to when I was a lot heavier.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> The only way you will rebound is if you are in a caloric surplus after you get lean.
> 
> Run the T3 through your vacation definitely. Fast in the mornings so that you can eat bigger meals later.


 Thanks, do you think I should cut down to 37.5mcg or 25mcg anytime soon or how long should I stay on 50mcg?

When coming off do I need to taper or just stop and stay strict with kcals to prevent a rebound

only reason I thought of stopping before the holiday was I've read it makes you look flat


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Training them directly will help a lot(high volume wrist curls), but heavy lifting will usually bring them up well. (Deadlifting/rows/weighted chin ups/ with no straps and even heavy bicep curls)
> 
> I also highly recommend Captains of Crush grippers. These are the #1 gold standard in grippers. They are made in the USA, all steel. Most men cannot close a # 1 CoC gripper, even those who lift. Very few men have ever closed a #3 gripper(300 lbs of force to close it). Anything above #2 gripper represents elite gripping strength. Anything above that is insane strength. They are a fantastic forearm and functional strength workout.
> 
> http://ironmind.com/product-info/grip-strength-training-tools/captains-of-crush-grippers/


 I have never used straps before. bought a pair recently for rows, but I just rely on chalk. thanks for your input, I'm aware of CoC they're quality. my grip is usually very fatigued after my training split though. so I'll have to fit in some grip work on a separate day.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo since I lost 2 stone from norovirus late last year every time I eat something I sweat profusely as if im on DNP.
> 
> It makes no difference what I eat I still sweat loads any idea why this is ?
> 
> On a plus note I seem to be keeping leaner than I used to when I was a lot heavier.


 No idea.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Thanks, do you think I should cut down to 37.5mcg or 25mcg anytime soon or how long should I stay on 50mcg?
> 
> When coming off do I need to taper or just stop and stay strict with kcals to prevent a rebound
> 
> only reason I thought of stopping before the holiday was I've read it makes you look flat


 As long as you want, it makes no difference. T3 is very mild and safe.

Stay strict with calories and look into reverse dieting. You should drop it cold turkey when you are ready to come off. If you take any T3, you will still be shutdown to a certain extent. 4-6 weeks your thyroid will be coming back online.

https://www.muscleforlife.com/reverse-diet/

It can make you flat if you eat low carb and usually in the first few weeks, but your body compensates and that goes away. If you don't want to look flat, don't eat low carb.


----------



## Jordan08

What are your thoughts on progressive overload if someone is not looking for strength gains(not willing to increase load) and is concerned about the joint health as well. Suppose, the guy is doing 60kgs bench press with 10 reps for 4 sets. In the next session, keeping the load same and number of sets same,he has to increase the reps for progressive overload to take place. The question here is till when the reps needs to be increased?. How to manage progression in this case?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> I have never used straps before. bought a pair recently for rows, but I just rely on chalk. thanks for your input, I'm aware of CoC they're quality. my grip is usually very fatigued after my training split though. so I'll have to fit in some grip work on a separate day.


 Yeah, to really progress on the grippers, you need to dedicate sometime to it and the hand fatigue is significant and can interfere with strapless deadlifts/rows/etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What are your thoughts on progressive overload if someone is not looking for strength gains(not willing to increase load) and is concerned about the joint health as well. Suppose, the guy is doing 60kgs bench press with 10 reps for 4 sets. In the next session, keeping the load same and number of sets same,he has to increase the reps for progressive overload to take place. The question here is till when the reps needs to be increased?. How to manage progression in this case?


 It's not about strength, it's essential for optimal muscle growth as well. Heavy lifting is good for joints when you use progressive overload intelligently. I'm not talkin about a kid going on 1 gram of tren and going from 135 lbs bench press to 225 lbs in 4 weeks. I am talking about adding 2.5-5 lbs of weight every week, this slow progression strengthens muscles, joints, tendons and all connective tissues.

To my body, squatting 405 lbs for reps is as easy as a weaker man squatting 135 lbs. The strain on my muscles and joints are virtually identical as i have built this strength up slowly and gradually. I am at as low a risk of joint injury doing this weight as a man doing lighter weight because strength is *relative. *

To answer your question, you can keep increasing reps until you reach about 12-15 reps per set, at this point you want to increase the weight so that you get back down into the 3-12 rep range depending on your exercise.

Increasing reps is actually worth a lot more than adding a good amount of weight and works very well for progression until you reach 12-15 rep range, at which point you are training more endurance than strength and metabolic adaption for muscle growth.

Remember, good form and ROM is essential, because if the weights and reps are going up because your form is breaking down or you are cheating, the adapative stimulus to the muscle won't be there anymore.


----------



## Dark Prowler

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, stay away from overhead cable curls and tricep extension if you have elbow issues.
> 
> It must be pretty extensive if you feel it when curling with no weight. You should get that looked at closer by a* sports medicine doctor*. I have chronic tennis elbow from an injury i sustained from MMA training 10 years ago. It comes and goes and flares up, but never to the point of affecting my training and one week off and it's back to normal.


 What other exercises should one avoid if they have biceps tendon issues?

Can't find any sports medicine doctors near where I live. Is this someone I'd have to ask a GP to refer me to?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

1) best acne protocal other than Accutane? heard nizoral is very effective, what would be best way to use it? I currently just dilute it in alittle water and moisturize after i get out the shower.

2) the three main side effects for high e2 and low e2?... following on from this would you say being tired when sedentary could be a sign of H/L e2?


----------



## SoberHans

Great thread. You're a legend ElChapo. Just a couple of questions?

How long do your blasts normally last for and do you ever take a break off everything?

What's your opinions on cheat days?

For example if I eat at maintenance all week and had a cheat day 700 calories over maintenance would I gain as much fat as eating 100 calories over everyday?


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> What other exercises should one avoid if they have biceps tendon issues?
> 
> Can't find any sports medicine doctors near where I live. Is this someone I'd have to ask a GP to refer me to?


 Ideally, you will rest the issue for long enough for full recovery. If it the injury becomes chronic, avoid any exercises that cause flare ups. I can do DB bicep curls with zero issues until i go up to 70 lbs. So weight lifted and intensity are another factor.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> 1) best acne protocal other than Accutane? heard nizoral is very effective, what would be best way to use it? I currently just dilute it in alittle water and moisturize after i get out the shower.
> 
> 2) the three main side effects for high e2 and low e2?... following on from this would you say being tired when sedentary could be a sign of H/L e2?


 Topical nizoral shampoo 2% concentration applied topically for 5-10 minutes then rinse off. High dose zinc supplementation ( 50 mg daily ; picolinate, gluconate, chelate, optizinc)

High E2: Bloat/water retention, Excessively emotional (anger, melancholy, mood swings) high or low libido, weaker erections.

Low E2: Joint aches/arthralgia, apathy/flat emotional affect, lower libido, lethargy, muscle weakness.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Great thread. You're a legend ElChapo. Just a couple of questions?
> 
> How long do your blasts normally last for and do you ever take a break off everything?
> 
> What's your opinions on cheat days?
> 
> For example if I eat at maintenance all week and had a cheat day 700 calories over maintenance would I gain as much fat as eating 100 calories over everyday?


 Blast length will depend on goals, dosage & toxicity of the compounds, etc. I recommend blasts at 12-24 weeks, and set goals for yourself in terms of strength and weight gain, so that you quantify your progress and adjust training, diet and drugs accordingly.

300-600 mg test e per week should maintain gains for most bodybuilders on a cruise. Dose will depend on development level. Most guys will hold great on 300 mg, you might lose the conditioning effect from AAS like tren and winstrol, but your actual lean tissue and strength should stay virtually the same, if training and diet are in place.

I don't like the phrase "cheat days". We should think of food as not only as something to enjoy, but as fuel for our bodies. Instead of cheat days, i recommend refeed days. These are days where you eat at maintenance or caloric surplus with a focus on high carb/low fat/moderate protein. This huge spike of carbs will upregulate your metabolism by increasing leptin, refill your glycogen restores to enhance performance and muscle fullness and help mitigate a lot of the negative effects of chronic dieting.

Otherwise, cheat days are alright, but i highly recommend counting your calories on cheat days and making room for bigger, tastier meals by skipping breakfast. Your cheat day should be anywhere from 30% of your current caloric intake to 10% of your maintenance calorie. This will limit fat gain while still giving you the freedom to enjoy a break from your diet and eat whatever you want. You should always try your best to incorporate foods that you enjoy into your cutting diet, the brown rice and chicken crap is outdated and provides little benefit. Be creative with your macros and you can enjoy pretty amazing meals while losing a lot of body fat.

You would possibly gain those 700 calories as fat, but there are many factors to take into account. How much of those calories are coming from carbohydrates versus fat, how glycogen depleted were you at the time of consuming the surplus. It's complicated, but generally, i would not go over 10% of maintenance on a cheat day and i would extend it to a maximum of 2 days (some people tend to extend their cheat days for a week/etc and they fall off the wagon).

Another alternative to a cheat day is a diet break. You take a whole week off at maintenance, this usually does more for people than one day of binging does.


----------



## Devil

If you had say a 20 week blast and you wanted to gain muscle and end up as lean as possible.

this is assuming someone is say middle of the road, 12%ish BF.

Not fat by any means, not very lean/shredded - so vague I know, I'm sorry, ha.

Would you bulk in a slight surplus first then cut, say 12 weeks then 8 week deficit.

Or would you get as lean as possible for the first 8 weeks, then lean bulk on a small surplus for the remaining 12.

I can see arguments for both ways. The former being you'd probably end up leaner/dryer more in control of final condition, but also have read (anecdotal it seems) that cutting hard right after a bulk does not give you time to get "used" to the extra muscle and hold it better (sounds like BS to me typing it out) - but I think you know what I'm trying to get at.

@ElChapo continual thanks and appreciation


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> If you had say a 20 week blast and you wanted to gain muscle and end up as lean as possible.
> 
> this is assuming someone is say middle of the road, 12%ish BF.
> 
> Not fat by any means, not very lean/shredded - so vague I know, I'm sorry, ha.
> 
> Would you bulk in a slight surplus first then cut, say 12 weeks then 8 week deficit.
> 
> Or would you get as lean as possible for the first 8 weeks, then lean bulk on a small surplus for the remaining 12.
> 
> I can see arguments for both ways. The former being you'd probably end up leaner/dryer more in control of final condition, but also have read (anecdotal it seems) that cutting hard right after a bulk does not give you time to get "used" to the extra muscle and hold it better (sounds like BS to me typing it out) - but I think you know what I'm trying to get at.
> 
> @ElChapo continual thanks and appreciation


 It depends on your current body fat level. Ideally, you will start lean bulking at 10% until you reach 15%, rinse and repeat.

Getting used to the muscle = bullshit, lmao

I would bulk until 15-18% then cut down to 10-12%. If you are already around 18%, i would definitely cut first. Cutting from 18-20% is a pain in the ass and takes forever without stims/dnp/etc. Muscle gains tend to diminish past 15-18% as insulin sensitivity goes down, and your work outs and mood start to suffer as you feel sluggish, tired and look/feel like s**t.

Staying within 10-15% will have you looking and feeling great year round while giving you some leeway. Dirty bulks are pointless and just makes it so cutting takes a much longer time than necessary and you look like a bloated mess for half the year.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

hey do you know of any vitamins or supps, that can help kidneys rejuvenate and or function better?

also can t4 cause extreme water retention??


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

Any ideas on what might be causing bad cramp, last night i had it in both legs and it come on at the same time, never had it so bad.

I've just finished a 3 week dnp cycle with 300mg sustanon pw, started using eph/caffeine 5 days ago and added in 80mcg clen with 50mcg t3 2 days ago.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

To minimise fat gain on a bulk, I am eating higher carb, much lower fat.

My question is, just how little fat can I get away with?

I want to eat enough to perform vital functions and ensure the proper absorption of e.g. cur cumin/other fat soluble vitamins... but no more..

Do you have a feeling for a grams/meal guesstimate that would be suitable?

Thanks for your continued patience and support in this thread. It's amazing.


----------



## Austrianoak

First of all, thanks for the great thread. Always good to learn new things, look at things from a different perspective and get reassurance on certain things and views.

Since you are a big fan of winstrol, do you think it would make sense to use Winstrol and Anavar (big fan of both, would use 50 mgs winny and 40 mgs var) in a caloric surplus to build muscle or would you rather go with Anadrol for example? If I use the winny/var combo now I'll wait to throw in Droll till October, otherwise I'd use Drol from August onwards. Looking forward to your input!


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

Is the hdl risk result bad on this test. How is it calculated and how could I increase it.


----------



## bigballs22

@El Chapo is it mandatory to donate blood if you take EQ thinking about running it with my next blast in October at 800-1000 mg a week for 20 weeks with 400mg test, 300mg tren weeks 1- 8 and 50-75 mg winstol weeks 1-16 ! What you think of this cycle any adjustments feel free to give thanks


----------



## Baka

Getting a gyno on Dbol using letro as an AI and ralox , would it be better to stop the oral immediatly or finishing the cycle and trying to reverse the gyno after?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey do you know of any vitamins or supps, that can help kidneys rejuvenate and or function better?
> 
> also can t4 cause extreme water retention??


 Cardiovascular exercise, thyroid hormone, keeping blood pressure under 130/80.

T4 can't cause "extreme" water retention. Some people can get some water from if it lowers your endogenous T3. T4 is not ideal for fat loss due to limited conversion into T3, the active hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Any ideas on what might be causing bad cramp, last night i had it in both legs and it come on at the same time, never had it so bad.
> 
> I've just finished a 3 week dnp cycle with 300mg sustanon pw, started using eph/caffeine 5 days ago and added in 80mcg clen with 50mcg t3 2 days ago.


 Too many variables, all those stims/DNP could be causing it. How is your magnesium, calcium, potassium, sodium and water intake?

Generally, if you sweat a lot on DNP, you will be losing a lot of electrolytes.

Cramps/spasms are usually caused by an imbalance of electrolytes (they signal contraction and relaxation of the muscle) or overactive sympathetic response (stimulants/stress)


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> To minimise fat gain on a bulk, I am eating higher carb, much lower fat.
> 
> My question is, just how little fat can I get away with?
> 
> I want to eat enough to perform vital functions and ensure the proper absorption of e.g. cur cumin/other fat soluble vitamins... but no more..
> 
> Do you have a feeling for a grams/meal guesstimate that would be suitable?
> 
> Thanks for your continued patience and support in this thread. It's amazing.


 Keep it at or under 30 grams. That is more than enough for vital functions, vitamin absorption and flavor for food.

What do you mean a feeling?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is the hdl risk result bad on this test. How is it calculated and how could I increase it.
> View attachment 143497


 Are you currently or were you recently taking any AAS? If so, what and what dosage?

If this is your natural HDL, you can increase it by doing regular cardiovascular exercise, eating fish or supplementing with fish oil, and drinking 1-2 glasses of red wine per day.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Keep it at or under 30 grams. That is more than enough for vital functions, vitamin absorption and flavor for food.
> 
> What do you mean a feeling?


 Cool... I just don;t want to be paying for supplements and then not absorbing them. So of that 30g a day, I should aim for say 10g per meal to make sure I properly absorb my vit d, cur cumin, etc?

Feeling/opinion/thoughts.. sorry, my bad.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Cool... I just don;t want to be paying for supplements and then not absorbing them. So of that 30g a day, I should aim for say 10g per meal to make sure I properly absorb my vit d, cur cumin, etc?
> 
> Feeling/opinion/thoughts.. sorry, my bad.


 I typically have my fat-soluble vitamins with my biggest meal ( dinner) which usually has enough fat for absorption. You only need 8-16 grams to absorb the vitamins.

So just take them all with ANY meal that contains a bit of fat. Just adding butter to a piece of toast should be enough even. Keep it simple


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo hey buddy hope you're good ?

Some questions for you mate,

1-What cause kidney disease/failure in some bodybuilders ? tren ? diuretic ?

2-I get bloated if I increase my daily oats intake, what can I do to avoid that ? I don't understand. I read it come from fibers but I drink powdered sweet potatoe which has more fibers than oats, and no issues.

3-Whats your thoughts about yohimbine cream ? Do you think fat spot reduction is possible ?

4-Do you think wearing waist trainer can reduce waist size ? and is it ok for health ?

5-Your thought about primo on cruise with trt dose?

thanks a lot


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Are you currently or were you recently taking any AAS? If so, what and what dosage?
> 
> If this is your natural HDL, you can increase it by doing regular cardiovascular exercise, eating fish or supplementing with fish oil, and drinking 1-2 glasses of red wine per day.


 At the time of the bloods I was on cycle but it was underdosed my test levels came back just above top end of average but my e2 levels were low (18) from adex


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapoI'm reading some article on www.muscleforlife.com, what do you think about that site?

Which other site do you read about training?


----------



## Austrianoak

@ElChapo

First of all, thanks for the great thread. Always good to learn new things, look at things from a different perspective and get reassurance on certain things and views.

Since you are a big fan of winstrol, do you think it would make sense to use Winstrol and Anavar (big fan of both, would use 50 mgs winny and 40 mgs var) in a caloric surplus to build muscle or would you rather go with Anadrol for example? If I use the winny/var combo now I'll wait to throw in Droll till October, otherwise I'd use Drol from August onwards. Looking forward to your input!


----------



## bigballs22

@El Chapo is it mandatory to donate blood if you take EQ thinking about running it with my next blast in October at 800-1000 mg a week for 20 weeks with 400mg test, 300mg tren weeks 1- 8 and 50-75 mg winstol weeks 1-16 ! What you think of this cycle any adjustments feel free to give thanks


----------



## bigballs22

@ElChapo is it mandatory to donate blood if you take EQ thinking about running it with my next blast in October at 800-1000 mg a week for 20 weeks with 400mg test, 300mg tren weeks 1- 8 and 50-75 mg winstol weeks 1-16 ! What you think of this cycle any adjustments feel free to give thanks


----------



## wilko1985

@ElChapo

Hi mate,

Just got some blood results back. Ive just started "cruising" or so i thought. All results came back fairly within level bar Test (and kidneys). The Test was way, way lower than expected.

The strange thing is my sex drive, strength and general mood is still fine. However, I am also taking Ciallis as per your advice. Could the blood test be wrong? I genuinely feel very good indeed. Normally through PCT my sex drive is NIL, even with ciallis. Also any advice on getting kidney function back into check?

Ironically I have been running this test at "250mg" for 6 weeks and dropped it down to "150" as of the past 2 weeks.

Thanks

Chris


----------



## Quackerz

bigballs22 said:


> @El Chapo is it mandatory to donate blood if you take EQ thinking about running it with my next blast in October at 800-1000 mg a week for 20 weeks with 400mg test, 300mg tren weeks 1- 8 and 50-75 mg winstol weeks 1-16 ! What you think of this cycle any adjustments feel free to give thanks


 Should donate no matter what you run. All AAS increase RBC count.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo hey buddy hope you're good ?
> 
> Some questions for you mate,
> 
> 1-What cause kidney disease/failure in some bodybuilders ? tren ? diuretic ?
> 
> 2-I get bloated if I increase my daily oats intake, what can I do to avoid that ? I don't understand. I read it come from fibers but I drink powdered sweet potatoe which has more fibers than oats, and no issues.
> 
> 3-Whats your thoughts about yohimbine cream ? Do you think fat spot reduction is possible ?
> 
> 4-Do you think wearing waist trainer can reduce waist size ? and is it ok for health ?
> 
> 5-Your thought about primo on cruise with trt dose?
> 
> thanks a lot


 1- Chronically elevated BP, Rhabdomyolysis from overtraining can cause acute kidney failure. The most common cause is chronically elevated blood pressure.

2- You might have a food allergy, some people bloat when they eat more carbs. Just cut it out, you don't need oats.

3-Just take oral and use a caloric deficit. Once you get lean enough, everything will be lean, especially with oral yohimbine. There is some anecdote and little research showing some benefit to topical yohimbine, but i would not put much stock on it.

4-No, to make your waist as small as possible, get very lean. You need to torch visceral AND subq fat stores, this makes the waisted stick out from the inside-out and the love handles. Waist size is also genetic, but most guys are not lean enough to worry about it, and if you have great deltoid and lat development even a thick waist will look good.

5-Not an issue, go for it as long as blood work comes back good. Keep the dosage reasonable.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> At the time of the bloods I was on cycle but it was underdosed my test levels came back just above top end of average but my e2 levels were low (18) from adex


 Low E2 = Low HDL


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapoI'm reading some article on www.muscleforlife.com, what do you think about that site?
> 
> Which other site do you read about training?


 Great site, he is legit. Always uses himself as an example and backs up his ideas with science, research and logic. He looks great and stays lean year round.

His supplement company is honest too. I use his egg nog whey.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html : Another fantastic resource


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> At the time of the bloods I was on cycle but it was underdosed my test levels came back just above top end of average but my e2 levels were low (18) from adex


 This is why i always recommend blood work on cycle, not only do you keep your health in check, but verify the legitimacy of your AAS. Two birds with one stone.


----------



## ElChapo

Austrianoak said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> First of all, thanks for the great thread. Always good to learn new things, look at things from a different perspective and get reassurance on certain things and views.
> 
> Since you are a big fan of winstrol, do you think it would make sense to use Winstrol and Anavar (big fan of both, would use 50 mgs winny and 40 mgs var) in a caloric surplus to build muscle or would you rather go with Anadrol for example? If I use the winny/var combo now I'll wait to throw in Droll till October, otherwise I'd use Drol from August onwards. Looking forward to your input!


 Yeah, i don't like anything that will make you hold excess water in the first place. Winstrol/Anavar is fine together. Superdrol is another excellent oral. Very potent.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Getting a gyno on Dbol using letro as an AI and ralox , would it be better to stop the oral immediatly or finishing the cycle and trying to reverse the gyno after?


 Like i've said before, dbol is absolute gyno fuel in susceptible individuals. This converts to METHYL-E2, you know how potent methyl-Tren is, this E2 is much stronger and much harder for the liver to breakdown.

Stop taking the gyno and don't use it again. Winstrol is better for lean tissue and strength.

Drop the dbol, and run raloxifene 60 mg until the gyno is gone. If it's fresh, it should be completely gone in 4-6 weeks if your ralox is legit. If it's not gone in 6 weeks, run it for 12 and it should be gone completely. Control E2 as you would normally if you are going to be running test or TRT.


----------



## ElChapo

bigballs22 said:


> @El Chapo is it mandatory to donate blood if you take EQ thinking about running it with my next blast in October at 800-1000 mg a week for 20 weeks with 400mg test, 300mg tren weeks 1- 8 and 50-75 mg winstol weeks 1-16 ! What you think of this cycle any adjustments feel free to give thanks


 Not at all, unless you know you have high HCT to begin with or you are sensitive to the hematopoietic effects of AAS.

I'm not a huge fan of EQ as it does require at least a gram to really see any effect for most people, the cycle looks good at 1 gram EQ, 600 mg test ( i would bump it to this) and 300 mg tren. The winstrol is a nice touch as well.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate,
> 
> Just got some blood results back. Ive just started "cruising" or so i thought. All results came back fairly within level bar Test (and kidneys). The Test was way, way lower than expected.
> 
> The strange thing is my sex drive, strength and general mood is still fine. However, I am also taking Ciallis as per your advice. Could the blood test be wrong? I genuinely feel very good indeed. Normally through PCT my sex drive is NIL, even with ciallis. Also any advice on getting kidney function back into check?
> 
> Ironically I have been running this test at "250mg" for 6 weeks and dropped it down to "150" as of the past 2 weeks.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chris
> 
> View attachment 143507
> 
> 
> View attachment 143508


 Your testosterone is bunk, albeit, some people get pretty low levels with 150 mg per week, it should never be THAT low. You feel fine right now because it takes a while for low testosterone to kick in, just like it takes a while to feel the effects of supraphysiological testosterone. You will likely feel like trash in the coming weeks with that level.

There is always the chance of lab error as well, but you would have to get another test to find out.

E2 is low as well and that will f**k your health up long term.

Kidneys look alright, what's your weight and age? You guys don't run GFR in the UK? How often do you check your blood pressure and what is it usually?


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Should donate no matter what you run. All AAS increase RBC count.


 Not everyone gets high RBC/HCT, and having it slightly elevated can confer some benefits to endurance and whole body oxygenation, this is one of the ways that AAS actually improve performance.


----------



## 31205

@ElChapo

Lately after eating (20-60 mins) I've been feeling faint, sweating, pale, shaking.

Any idea what could be the cause?


----------



## stewedw

wilko1985 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate,
> 
> Just got some blood results back. Ive just started "cruising" or so i thought. All results came back fairly within level bar Test (and kidneys). The Test was way, way lower than expected.
> 
> The strange thing is my sex drive, strength and general mood is still fine. However, I am also taking Ciallis as per your advice. Could the blood test be wrong? I genuinely feel very good indeed. Normally through PCT my sex drive is NIL, even with ciallis. Also any advice on getting kidney function back into check?
> 
> Ironically I have been running this test at "250mg" for 6 weeks and dropped it down to "150" as of the past 2 weeks.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chris
> 
> View attachment 143507
> 
> 
> View attachment 143508


 @wilko1985where did you get bloods done? Interested to have this etc. Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Lately after eating (20-60 mins) I've been feeling faint, sweating, pale, shaking.
> 
> Any idea what could be the cause?


 Some people get a hypoglycemic feeling when taking trenbolone.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> Some people get a hypoglycemic feeling when taking trenbolone.


 This will go will it? Last injection was I don't know how long ago! Maybe weekend? Possibly end of last week. Was tren ace.


----------



## Pancake'

Thoughts on 1RM's for strength progression?

Given this will vary per individual, as it's a skill/technique matter. but thoughts on powerlifters/bodybuilders potentially making good fighters? I ask, as it's just always a topic that's debated. I've seen big guys, get their a55 handed to them by featherweights before today, but you do come across some lumps, that can really use their muscle & strength to their advantage. do you think holding some good functional muscle and being an extremely strong individual, 'should' make potential to be a good fighter?


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Your testosterone is bunk, albeit, some people get pretty low levels with 150 mg per week, it should never be THAT low. You feel fine right now because it takes a while for low testosterone to kick in, just like it takes a while to feel the effects of supraphysiological testosterone. You will likely feel like trash in the coming weeks with that level.
> 
> There is always the chance of lab error as well, but you would have to get another test to find out.
> 
> E2 is low as well and that will f**k your health up long term.
> 
> Kidneys look alright, what's your weight and age? You guys don't run GFR in the UK? How often do you check your blood pressure and what is it usually?


 Thanks elchapo. I've got another brand in the cupboard so will start that straight away and have just ordered a different brand again.

What are the negatives of e2 being too low long term? I was crushing it a bit as the gyno lumps were getting very sore. That make sense if my test is so low now.

I check BP regularly, just did a measurement and it's 116/65 with a HR of 64. I'm 31 and around the 13 stone mark.


----------



## wilko1985

stewedw said:


> @wilko1985where did you get bloods done? Interested to have this etc. Cheers.


 I got my tests done at medichecks. Every time I use them their service gets better. They've definitely got a good product manager on board now as the product packaging has come on leaps and bounds.

I posted the test yesterday and got the results today.


----------



## ElChapo

sen said:


> This will go will it? Last injection was I don't know how long ago! Maybe weekend? Possibly end of last week. Was tren ace.


 Of course, not permanent.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Thoughts on 1RM's for strength progression?
> 
> Given this will vary per individual, as it's a skill/technique matter. but thoughts on powerlifters/bodybuilders potentially making good fighters? I ask, as it's just always a topic that's debated. I've seen big guys, get their a55 handed to them by featherweights before today, but you do come across some lumps, that can really use their muscle & strength to their advantage. do you think holding some good functional muscle and being an extremely strong individual, 'should' make potential to be a good fighter?


 1RM will go up naturally as your working weight increasing. testing it too often will burn you out. A true 1RM takes a lot out of you and will affect your lifts, potentiall for a week or more.

Being a good fighter is complex, someone who is very strong needs to be less technical to be a dangerous grappler, same way a guy with KO power does not have to be a technical striker to be dangerous.

Then you have to take into account conditioning and stamina, there are a lot of factors, but fighting is not purely an athletic pursuit but a mental/scientific one. There are tons of athletic, fast and strong explosive guys that get their asses beat in the octagon, but there are those who pick it up well and can use their gifts efficiently with the right training, but some people just don't have the mental talent for fighting.

Look at Rousimar Palhares, absolute monster, strong as f**k and very technical, he is a very dangerous man, but its his mind/technique that makes him what he is, the strength helps too but it takes years and talent/genetics to get the high level combat technique.

Most guys who BJJ or lift weights at the gym will never be Elite no matter how long they train or who trains them. It's just genetics/talent. That to a certain you cannot overcome with hardwork/training.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> Thanks elchapo. I've got another brand in the cupboard so will start that straight away and have just ordered a different brand again.
> 
> What are the negatives of e2 being too low long term? I was crushing it a bit as the gyno lumps were getting very sore. That make sense if my test is so low now.
> 
> I check BP regularly, just did a measurement and it's 116/65 with a HR of 64. I'm 31 and around the 13 stone mark.


 Crushing e2 will not reverse gyno, you need a SERM. Low e2 is very bad for your cardiovascular system and can make apathetic/enjoy life less, can affect libido, erections and muscle strength. E2 also has a positive effect on brain health. It is very important. Even needed for GH to work in the body properly.

Your kidneys are likely fine, people who hold more muscle than average, eat a lot of protein and lift weights have higher creatinine.


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Crushing e2 will not reverse gyno, you need a SERM. Low e2 is very bad for your cardiovascular system and can make apathetic/enjoy life less, can affect libido, erections and muscle strength. E2 also has a positive effect on brain health. It is very important. Even needed for GH to work in the body properly.
> 
> Your kidneys are likely fine, people who hold more muscle than average, eat a lot of protein and lift weights have higher creatinine.


 Ah yea I'm not trying to get rid of the gyno, merely stop the pain of the lump. I've since added nolva in the past few days and you're right the pain has diminished. Hopefully adding in a different brand of test will raise it back up to normal.

Cheers for the advice. I'll get bloods in another few weeks and see where I am.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> Ah yea I'm not trying to get rid of the gyno, merely stop the pain of the lump. I've since added nolva in the past few days and you're right the pain has diminished. Hopefully adding in a different brand of test will raise it back up to normal.
> 
> Cheers for the advice. I'll get bloods in another few weeks and see where I am.


 Great, glad you caught that bunk testosterone early. Best of luck


----------



## Austrianoak

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, i don't like anything that will make you hold excess water in the first place. Winstrol/Anavar is fine together. Superdrol is another excellent oral. Very potent.


 That's what I figured from reading your ama. I reckon that winstrol/anavar will provide slow and steady gains but you won't lose lots of it like with Drol for example. If got some Superdrol in my stash as well, might consider that too. Thanks for your help!


----------



## ElChapo

Austrianoak said:


> That's what I figured from reading your ama. I reckon that winstrol/anavar will provide slow and steady gains but you won't lose lots of it like with Drol for example. If got some Superdrol in my stash as well, might consider that too. Thanks for your help!


 Drol seems to really pump the muscle with glycogen/nitrogen.

Winstrol is usually dry, quality muscle.


----------



## Quackerz

ElChapo said:


> Not everyone gets high RBC/HCT, and having it slightly elevated can confer some benefits to endurance and whole body oxygenation, this is one of the ways that AAS actually improve performance.


 Mine goes through the roof, guess I just assume. lol


----------



## ElChapo

Quackerz said:


> Mine goes through the roof, guess I just assume. lol


 Yeah, everyone is different. Some guys need to donate blood every 3 months on TRT, it's crazy. Others are blasting grams with none or minimal issues.


----------



## bigballs22

ElChapo said:


> Not at all, unless you know you have high HCT to begin with or you are sensitive to the hematopoietic effects of AAS.
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of EQ as it does require at least a gram to really see any effect for most people, the cycle looks good at 1 gram EQ, 600 mg test ( i would bump it to this) and 300 mg tren. The winstrol is a nice touch as well.


 @ElChapo that sounds better might switch the eq for dhb 600-800 mg for the full 20 weeks you think that would yeild better results


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Cardiovascular exercise, thyroid hormone, keeping blood pressure under 130/80.
> 
> T4 can't cause "extreme" water retention. Some people can get some water from if it lowers your endogenous T3. T4 is not ideal for fat loss due to limited conversion into T3, the active hormone.


 @ElChapo it feels as though the waters slowly going down ... is it possible my body is adapting? should i up my dose to 200 mcg ????? ive been using for about 1.5 weeks.... at 150mcg as you suggested ... energy has picked up, and i think general wellbeing has also ...

im using it in a lean bulk so i can keep my cals relatively high while keeping lean and not spilling over and gaining fat

i picked up the idea from this






does make sense to me

do you think this is good for offseason or just a waste? i want to keep lean as possible as i have a holiday coming up in 10 weeks, and i dont want to stop my bulk as its going really well,,, just started spilling over a bit a week or so ago ...


----------



## ElChapo

bigballs22 said:


> @ElChapo that sounds better might switch the eq for dhb 600-800 mg for the full 20 weeks you think that would yeild better results


 Yeah


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo it feels as though the waters slowly going down ... is it possible my body is adapting? should i up my dose to 200 mcg ????? ive been using for about 1.5 weeks.... at 150mcg as you suggested ... energy has picked up, and i think general wellbeing has also ...
> 
> im using it in a lean bulk so i can keep my cals relatively high while keeping lean and not spilling over and gaining fat
> 
> i picked up the idea from this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does make sense to me
> 
> do you think this is good for offseason or just a waste? i want to keep lean as possible as i have a holiday coming up in 10 weeks, and i dont want to stop my bulk as its going really well,,, just started spilling over a bit a week or so ago ...


 T4 can enhance protein synthesis, too much will create too much breakdown. 150 is basically a high perfomance dose. At the top of the normal range.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> This is why i always recommend blood work on cycle, not only do you keep your health in check, but verify the legitimacy of your AAS. Two birds with one stone.


 What all tests do you recommend on cycle?. Can you please list them?


----------



## SoberHans

Thanks for taking time to answer my previous post.

Currently on a PCT after a cycle. On my second week of clomid and nolva with aromasin twice a week.

Feel awful though, full of cold for the past week and blurry vision (I know you hate clomid).

Should I start cruising instead, I'm 30 now and don't want children at any point in the future and I was going to start it after my next cycle anyway?

If I should, what would be easiest way to bridge over to test cypionate?

Thanks again


----------



## Tricky

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for taking time to answer my previous post.
> 
> Currently on a PCT after a cycle. On my second week of clomid and nolva with aromasin twice a week.
> 
> Feel awful though, full of cold for the past week and blurry vision (I know you hate clomid).
> 
> Should I start cruising instead, I'm 30 now and don't want children at any point in the future and I was going to start it after my next cycle anyway?
> 
> If I should, what would be easiest way to bridge over to test cypionate?
> 
> Thanks again


 Why did you run a pct if you wanted to go back on? Clomid is a very harsh drug and one that should not be used lightly just because others follow a said protocol. Pct is pointless if your going straight back on anyway you should just drop to a cruise dose


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> Training them directly will help a lot(high volume wrist curls), but heavy lifting will usually bring them up well. (Deadlifting/rows/weighted chin ups/ with no straps and even heavy bicep curls)
> 
> I also highly recommend Captains of Crush grippers. These are the #1 gold standard in grippers. They are made in the USA, all steel. Most men cannot close a # 1 CoC gripper, even those who lift. Very few men have ever closed a #3 gripper(300 lbs of force to close it). Anything above #2 gripper represents elite gripping strength. Anything above that is insane strength. They are a fantastic forearm and functional strength workout.
> 
> http://ironmind.com/product-info/grip-strength-training-tools/captains-of-crush-grippers/


 @Starz I'm a big fan of building grip/forearm strength. You can buy different grip handles to attach to chin up bar e.g. smaller globe handles and 12" globe. You have to widen your hands so places emphasis on fingers and overall grip. Rogue fitness do them. I'm not sure if they do them in UK. Rogue, I believe, are in the US. I do indoor rock climbing now and again. Great for improving grip (as well as back). If you want to up the ante:

http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/

Loads of great implements of torture here and outstanding when helping building superior grip strength. David is in the U.K.


----------



## SoberHans

Tricky said:


> Why did you run a pct if you wanted to go back on? Clomid is a very harsh drug and one that should not be used lightly just because others follow a said protocol. Pct is pointless if your going straight back on anyway you should just drop to a cruise dose


 I was going to do PCT then wait about 4 months for new cycle but I read this whole thread the other day and I decided blast cruise would suit me more


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

What pct would you recommend running. In the past I always followed the one off steroid.com which is clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20 sometimes I would extend the nolva a extra 2 weeks. I believe it is a overkill and I would lose a lot of my gains and feel drained and weak.


----------



## Bull Terrier

Do you think that medium chain triglycerides have a role in fat loss diets? How would you recommend incorporating them?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Bull Terrier said:


> Do you think that medium chain triglycerides have a role in fat loss diets? How would you recommend incorporating them?


 My guess is no.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What all tests do you recommend on cycle?. Can you please list them?


 Before and during cycle:

Total testosterone

E2

Optional/for longer cycles:

Lipid/metabolic/CBC panel

Keep an eye on BP if running long cycles or symptomatic.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for taking time to answer my previous post.
> 
> Currently on a PCT after a cycle. On my second week of clomid and nolva with aromasin twice a week.
> 
> Feel awful though, full of cold for the past week and blurry vision (I know you hate clomid).
> 
> Should I start cruising instead, I'm 30 now and don't want children at any point in the future and I was going to start it after my next cycle anyway?
> 
> If I should, what would be easiest way to bridge over to test cypionate?
> 
> Thanks again


 That's not a decision i can or will make for you. That is a personal life choice.

If you want to start TRT/Cruise just start injecting your dose like normal.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> @Starz I'm a big fan of building grip/forearm strength. You can buy different grip handles to attach to chin up bar e.g. smaller globe handles and 12" globe. You have to widen your hands so places emphasis on fingers and overall grip. Rogue fitness do them. I'm not sure if they do them in UK. Rogue, I believe, are in the US. I do indoor rock climbing now and again. Great for improving grip (as well as back). If you want to up the ante:
> 
> http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/
> 
> Loads of great implements of torture here and outstanding when helping building superior grip strength. David is in the U.K.


 Fat gripz are great


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What pct would you recommend running. In the past I always followed the one off steroid.com which is clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20 sometimes I would extend the nolva a extra 2 weeks. I believe it is a overkill and I would lose a lot of my gains and feel drained and weak.


 That PCT is fine, you will feel drained and weak because nolva and clomid are toxic drugs and your hormones are all out of wack.

You just went from taking high dose of androgens to dropping them and adding in synthetic estrogens, you are not going to feel great.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo Since I have mediterranean anemia and RBC should be little and small among normal people, should I concern with AAS, or should I benefit from it?


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> That PCT is fine, you will feel drained and week because nolva and clomid are toxic drugs and your hormones are all out of wack.
> 
> You just went from taking high dose of androgens to dropping them and adding in synthetic estrogens, you are not going to feel great.


 Do you think the doses could be lower and even drop clomid out


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> That's not a decision i can or will make for you. That is a personal life choice.
> 
> If you want to start TRT/Cruise just start injecting your dose like normal.


 Good advice thanks. I know that is a big decision and I have put a lot of thought into it.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> I was going to do PCT then wait about 4 months for new cycle but I read this whole thread the other day and I decided blast cruise would suit me more


 Yeah, if you absolutely don't care about having kids, don't care about endogenous testosterone recovery, or already have low/suboptimal levels of testosterone and are going to keep blasting in the future. Blast cruise or blast TRT makes more sense and is healthier/more conducive to your goals.

Why pump yourself full of toxic drugs, lose your gains just to get back to suboptimal/average testosterone levels for a couple of weeks to rinse/repeat. You are basically spinning your wheels and putting yourself through emotional distress during pct while you risk losing your gains.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> Do you think that medium chain triglycerides have a role in fat loss diets? How would you recommend incorporating them?


 Zero role. It's nothing special. Calories in/calories out = fat loss or muscle gain, period.


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo i managed to get bloods done, i'll post them up when i recieve them


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo Since I have mediterranean anemia and RBC should be little and small among normal people, should I concern with AAS, or should I benefit from it?


 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11527055

There can be some benefit, yes.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Do you think the doses could be lower and even drop clomid out


 Lower dose ; lower sides ; lower chance of success. The choice is yours.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo i managed to get bloods done, i'll post them up when i recieve them


 Great, i love blood work


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11527055
> 
> There can be some benefit, yes.


 I read your link, very interesting, but it does not refer to RCB. My concern is about increase of RBC in my case.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Great, i love blood work


 Hopefully end of the week


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> I read your link, very interesting, but it does not refer to RCB. My concern is about increase of RBC in my case.


 I said it can help, i am linking that study to show you that it is safe.

The benefit to oxygenation may be minimal due to your abnormal hemoglobin, however, it can indirectly assist you by increase stamina and energy through other mechanisms. There's nothing you can do to change the fact that your red blood cells are messed up.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> I said it can help, i am linking that study to show you that it is safe.
> 
> The benefit to oxygenation may be minimal due to your abnormal hemoglobin, however, it can indirectly assist you by increase stamina and energy through other mechanisms. There's nothing you can do to change the fact that your red blood cells are messed up.


 Maybe I do not have to worry about to donate blood :tongue:


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Maybe I do not have to worry about to donate blood :tongue:


 Your blood cells can still clump and cause stroke or heart attack.


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think are the most beneficial drills to perform regarding GPP work? e.g sled, farmers walks ,jump rope etc.

Favourite drills for explosiveness, speed, power, awareness? anything in particular or out of the ordinary perhaps?

What's performance boosting, apart from aas, stims/caffeine/good sleep. is their anything out there, a side peds or typical pre workouts, that can offer an edge?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Raloxifene is finally back in stock so ordered two boxes.

Dont know if you remember but on 2g adex pw with 20mg nolva ed for gyno which is starting to reduce.

Am best to drop the nolva straight away and replace with 60mg ralox ed for the duration of the blast or could ralox be ran at a lower dose?


----------



## DLTBB

Starz said:


> What do you think are the most beneficial drills to perform regarding GPP work? e.g sled, farmers walks ,jump rope etc.
> 
> Favourite drills for explosiveness, speed, power, awareness? anything in particular or out of the ordinary perhaps?
> 
> What's performance boosting, apart from aas, stims/caffeine/good sleep. is their anything out there, a side peds or typical pre workouts, that can offer an edge?


 Cardarine.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo what do you think about MK-677? How does it compare with real HGH?


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Raloxifene is finally back in stock so ordered two boxes.
> 
> Dont know if you remember but on 2g adex pw with 20mg nolva ed for gyno which is starting to reduce.
> 
> Am best to drop the nolva straight away and replace with 60mg ralox ed for the duration of the blast or could ralox be ran at a lower dose?


 60 mg minimum.

Raloxifene 60 mg = Nolvadex 20 mg


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo what do you think about MK-677? How does it compare with real HGH?


 Answered this earlier but does not compare. May have some benefits via increasing IGF-1, but not overly impressive. It can also be useful for people with appetite issues when bulking, or hard gainers who have to eat +4k calories daily.


----------



## latblaster

What, in your opinion, is the optimum level for E2 in men?

Mine is 27 pg/dl. I have low libido & over the last 3 weeks my joints seem to crack frequently.

I use 250mg Enanthate e10d.

How could I raise my E2?

Thanks


----------



## JBlast

Are there some benefits of running T3 when using DNP? If yes, how much T3?


----------



## ElChapo

latblaster said:


> What, in your opinion, is the optimum level for E2 in men?
> 
> Mine is 27 pg/dl. I have low libido & over the last 3 weeks my joints seem to crack frequently.
> 
> I use 250mg Enanthate e10d.
> 
> How could I raise my E2?
> 
> Thanks


 You mean pg/mL. Most men will feel best 20-42 pg/mL, there are outliers though. Your E2 might be even lower at the start of the week.

When do you draw bloods after your injection?

Are you taking any AI?

What is your total testosterone level? and is your testosterone prescription or UGL?


----------



## latblaster

Ok thanks for your reply.

When's the 'best' time to have bloods done?

No AI.

T is 27n/mols.

Bayer Testoviron from a Pharmacy (I live in Thailand)


----------



## John Boy 1985

@ElChapo currently on cut and cruising with 150test 100npp per wk. Think I have got as far as I can with diet cardio and wanted to add 80-120mcg clen and t3 at 50mcg per day Mon to Fri for last 4weeks of cut, will these dosages be ok not to see any muscle loss. I'm 500 cals below maintenance and proten is 1.5g per lb. I'm not got loads of muscle mass but more athletically lean. Hovering around 12-15 bf, got abs with intercostals and veins on lower abs. My last blast was 6wk ago.


----------



## Tricky

John Boy 1985 said:


> @ElChapo currently on cut and cruising with 150test 100npp per wk. Think I have got as far as I can with diet cardio and wanted to add 80-120mcg clen and t3 at 50mcg per day Mon to Fri for last 4weeks of cut, will these dosages be ok not to see any muscle loss. I'm 500 cals below maintenance and proten is 1.5g per lb. I'm not got loads of muscle mass but more athletically lean. Hovering around 12-15 bf, got abs with intercostals and veins on lower abs. My last blast was 6wk ago.


 Can I ask why you not mon-fri? With diet and cardio you can keep going it just gets harder, the meds will just acletrate the fat loss.

500kcals below maintence isn't much just 1lb per week. Your not going to lose muscle on that amount of protein and ass on only 50mcg t3.

Elchapo has quoted in this thread his recommendations for protein for cutting and bulking


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> What do you think are the most beneficial drills to perform regarding GPP work? e.g sled, farmers walks ,jump rope etc.
> 
> Favourite drills for explosiveness, speed, power, awareness? anything in particular or out of the ordinary perhaps?
> 
> What's performance boosting, apart from aas, stims/caffeine/good sleep. is their anything out there, a side peds or typical pre workouts, that can offer an edge?


 HIIT/Jump rope will build up general anaerobic/aerobic conditioning, balance, dexterity/hand-eye coordination, and agility/foot work. It's portable (you can do it anywhere) and cheap (jump rope costs almost nothing). It's my go-to for general conditioning and cardio and it's pretty fun when you get good at it.

Generally, performance will come down to getting enough rest in between your training, eating enough calories. In terms of PEDs, 300 mg test E is the max i would do if you need optimal endurance. Too much AAS can lead to overly pumped muscles that fatigue more quickly, more water weight, etc. Tren ace at 200 mg per week is good for performance as well, anything over it will affect cardio, at least for me.

I don't have personal experience with meldonium but a lot of people are liking this stuff lately. I don't like relying on PEDs for performance besides TRT/Cruise dose testosterone ( not due to ethics, i just like having a real baseline of fitness that doesn't rely on chems) . Winstrol is another good one.

For performance in sport, the specific movement/technique you use in competition is what you should focus most on. For boxing, your best conditioning will come from throwing punches, wether it be in sparring or against a heavy bag/mitts, and you ALWAYS want to train the way you want to perform. Too many guys neglect high-intensity short bursts in their striking training, so when it comes to fight day, they fatigue too quickly when throwing hard combinations. The way you train is the way your body will be ready to perform come competition day.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Raloxifene is finally back in stock so ordered two boxes.
> 
> Dont know if you remember but on 2g adex pw with 20mg nolva ed for gyno which is starting to reduce.
> 
> Am best to drop the nolva straight away and replace with 60mg ralox ed for the duration of the blast or could ralox be ran at a lower dose?


 Yeah, and no. Keep raloxifene at 60 mg minimum.

Nolva 20 mg = ralox 60 mg


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Are there some benefits of running T3 when using DNP? If yes, how much T3?


 Yes, DNP and caloric restriction will downregulate conversion of T4 to T3 via deiodination. You can keep this metabolic pathway running by taking T3 so that your metabolism does not slow down. It's not generally necessary when running DNP, but it can help.


----------



## ElChapo

latblaster said:


> Ok thanks for your reply.
> 
> When's the 'best' time to have bloods done?
> 
> No AI.
> 
> T is 27n/mols.
> 
> Bayer Testoviron from a Pharmacy (I live in Thailand)


 7 days after your injection before your next injection.

When did you draw your blood that you got that 27 nmol? How long after your injection was this level taken and how long were you on the testoviron for when you did?


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> @ElChapo currently on cut and cruising with 150test 100npp per wk. Think I have got as far as I can with diet cardio and wanted to add 80-120mcg clen and t3 at 50mcg per day Mon to Fri for last 4weeks of cut, will these dosages be ok not to see any muscle loss. I'm 500 cals below maintenance and proten is 1.5g per lb. I'm not got loads of muscle mass but more athletically lean. Hovering around 12-15 bf, got abs with intercostals and veins on lower abs. My last blast was 6wk ago.


 That will work fine. Run your Clen and T3 daily, no reason to take weekends off. Lower your calories by 200 as well for the last 4 weeks. I would up NPP to 150 mg per week.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Can I ask why you not mon-fri? With diet and cardio you can keep going it just gets harder, the meds will just acletrate the fat loss.
> 
> 500kcals below maintence isn't much just 1lb per week. Your not going to lose muscle on that amount of protein and ass on only 50mcg t3.
> 
> Elchapo has quoted in this thread his recommendations for protein for cutting and bulking


 Yeah, you will have to lower calories as you get leaner because your body will downregulate it's metabolic rate. Stalling is completely normal and expected as you get leaner.

If he adds T3 and Clen he can keep the calories as is and see progress, but i would attack the plateau from both ends and add clen as well as lower calories by 200. He will definitely torch pass the plateau by doing this.

He also needs to make sure he is having carb refeeds.


----------



## MarkyMark

Hi @ElChapo

Just FYI i have been running Rolax for 2 weeks now and the discomfort when prodding my nipples is still there. i dont have any lumps that i can feel directly under the nipple however i do have several grisly lumps 1 inch from the nipple to the side going towards the armpit.

Can gyno lumps reside outside of the nipple area as looking at most descriptions online its said that the lump will form under the nipple itself? FYI these lumps have always been there since before starting AAS but they may now be bigger since starting. im wondering if these are pubertal gyno lumps or infact nothing at all and non-gyno related.

FYI my pecs and nipples do not look abnormal from a visual stand point.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Just FYI i have been running Rolax for 2 weeks now and the discomfort when prodding my nipples is still there. i dont have any lumps that i can feel directly under the nipple however i do have several grisly lumps 1 inch from the nipple to the side going towards the armpit.
> 
> Can gyno lumps reside outside of the nipple area as looking at most descriptions online its said that the lump will form under the nipple itself? FYI these lumps have always been there since before starting AAS but they may now be bigger since starting. im wondering if these are pubertal gyno lumps or infact nothing at all and non-gyno related.
> 
> FYI my pecs and nipples do not look abnormal from a visual stand point.


 They can form outside the nipple. For me, mine has started outside the nipple and starts to grow behind and under. Starting as a pea sized lump and eventually growing into a disc shaped gland behind and around the nipple.

If it feels weird, it's probably gyno.

If you don't have visual effect, then i wouldn't treat it, but if you want to continue, it's going to take you 4-6 weeks to start seeing a difference when taking raloxifene.

The reason most people don't know how good it works is because they expect to work in a few days. Maximum effect will be seen after 12 weeks of use.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, you will have to lower calories as you get leaner because your body will downregulate it's metabolic rate. Stalling is completely normal and expected as you get leaner.
> 
> If he adds T3 and Clen he can keep the calories as is and see progress, but i would attack the plateau from both ends and add clen as well as lower calories by 200. He will definitely torch pass the plateau by doing this.
> 
> He also needs to make sure he is having carb refeeds.


 I don't do low carbs. My macros are 200p 200c and 40f. I like to keep carbs same as protein. On Sundays is my day off. I have a small lunch (normally chicken cheese toastie) and large cheat meal in evening.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

Making good gains from 450mg of test how safe is this dose my diet is on point do a lot of cardio how long could I stay on for and what is a ok bp to stay at for a period of time


----------



## Mully

@ElChapo Just came across this thread and its gold, nice work.

I had deep vein thrombosis in my leg and was taking rivoroxaban. I'm on AAS am I at risk or is there anything I can do to mitigate the risk? cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Making good gains from 450mg of test how safe is this dose my diet is on point do a lot of cardio how long could I stay on for and what is a ok bp to stay at for a period of time


 Pretty safe. The highest i would want BP long-term is 130/85, anything higher risks permanent damaged to the renal and vascular system.

Keep E2 within normal limits as well. High E2 is carcinogenic and increases the risk of heart attack and prostate issues.


----------



## ElChapo

Mully said:


> @ElChapo Just came across this thread and its gold, nice work.
> 
> I had deep vein thrombosis in my leg and was taking rivoroxaban. I'm on AAS am I at risk or is there anything I can do to mitigate the risk? cheers


 AAS and high E2 can increase hematocrit and blood viscosity to supraphysiological levels. Being overweight is another risk factor. I would be cautious.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Pretty safe. The highest i would want BP long-term is 130/85, anything higher risks permanent damaged to the renal and vascular system.
> 
> Keep E2 within normal limits as well. High E2 is carcinogenic and increases the risk of heart attack and prostate issues.


 Okay mate taking 1mg of Adex ATM once a week not sure to up it tho maybe another 0.5


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Okay mate taking 1mg of Adex ATM once a week not sure to up it tho maybe another 0.5


 It might be enough for you, or it might not. Everyone is different. Labs would confirm this and you will also know if your testosterone is dosed properly. UGLs revel in the fact that most guys don't do bloodwork. You've seen the bloods popping up of underdosed test. Just because test is cheap doesnt mean a UGL won't underdose it. That logic is plain stupidity.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> It might be enough for you, or it might not. Everyone is different. Labs would confirm this and you will also know if your testosterone is dosed properly. UGLs revel in the fact that most guys don't do bloodwork. You've seen the bloods popping up of underdosed test. Just because test is cheap doesnt mean a UGL won't underdose it. That logic is plain stupidity.


 Ok mate going get bloods done killing me not knowing if my e2 is in check :huh: thanks agin anyway bro


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> Ok mate going get bloods done killing me not knowing if my e2 is in check :huh: thanks agin anyway bro


 Seriously, guys are running 1 gram and their E2 is normal. Other guys on TRT have very high E2. You just CAN'T know.

Once you find your sweet spot for AI, you know for life. It's worth it.


----------



## Mully

ElChapo said:


> AAS and high E2 can increase hematocrit and blood viscosity to supraphysiological levels. Being overweight is another risk factor. I would be cautious.


 About 15% bodyfat and about 185lbs at 5'10 so weights ok. Do you think running 2.5mg letrozole e3d's would be enough to keep E2 in check? I think the doctor would give me rivorxaban if I asked for it aswell


----------



## ElChapo

Mully said:


> About 15% bodyfat and about 185lbs at 5'10 so weights ok. Do you think running 2.5mg letrozole e3d's would be enough to keep E2 in check? I think the doctor would give me rivorxaban if I asked for it aswell


 Likely way too much, how much test are you taking?


----------



## Mully

ElChapo said:


> Likely way too much, how much test are you taking?


 started 800mg a week, noticed a little bit bloat so dropped to 400mg a week and let the first two weeks at 800mg serve as a kicker. Decided to add in 50mg halodrol ed instead, I've got letrozoles and nolva on hand. What do you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

Mully said:


> started 800mg a week, noticed a little bit bloat so dropped to 400mg a week and let the first two weeks at 800mg serve as a kicker. Decided to add in 50mg halodrol ed instead, I've got letrozoles and nolva on hand. What do you recommend?


 You might need anywhere from 1.25 mg to 5 mg letrozole per week. Some people run zero AI at 500 mg.

If you wanna be safe, run 2.5 letro per week to start. Increase or decrease by symptoms or labs.


----------



## cell-tech

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Raloxifene is finally back in stock so ordered two boxes.
> 
> Dont know if you remember but on 2g adex pw with 20mg nolva ed for gyno which is starting to reduce.
> 
> Am best to drop the nolva straight away and replace with 60mg ralox ed for the duration of the blast or could ralox be ran at a lower dose?


 Been waiting weeks for the raloxifene to come back in stock so i can order all my bits together. The day the raloxifene comes back in stock, the npp is out of stock


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

cell-tech said:


> Been waiting weeks for the raloxifene to come back in stock so i can order all my bits together. The day the raloxifene comes back in stock, the npp is out of stock


 I only really needed the ralox and ended up getting stuff I dont. Really need lol


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> They can form outside the nipple. For me, mine has started outside the nipple and starts to grow behind and under. Starting as a pea sized lump and eventually growing into a disc shaped gland behind and around the nipple.
> 
> If it feels weird, it's probably gyno.
> 
> If you don't have visual effect, then i wouldn't treat it, but if you want to continue, it's going to take you 4-6 weeks to start seeing a difference when taking raloxifene.
> 
> The reason most people don't know how good it works is because they expect to work in a few days. Maximum effect will be seen after 12 weeks of use.


 Ill continue ralox.

Its said that igf is reduced when using raloxifene by around d 15% in one study. What if any impact would this have on gains if running for many weeks?

Also your views on how rolaxefine reduces density of bones and possibly makes them more brittle?


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Before and during cycle:
> 
> Total testosterone
> 
> E2
> 
> Optional/for longer cycles:
> 
> Lipid/metabolic/CBC panel
> 
> Keep an eye on BP if running long cycles or symptomatic.


 E2 is understandable. Why Testosterone during the cycle?


----------



## Tricky

Jatin Bhatia said:


> E2 is understandable. Why Testosterone during the cycle?


 To know if your gear is legit and accurately dosed?


----------



## Jordan08

Tricky said:


> To know if your gear is legit and accurately dosed?


 I was talking from health perspective though.


----------



## bornagod

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I was talking from health perspective though.


 Wouldnt have thought there was 'from a health perspective' only reason is as @Tricky said to see that your test is dosed correctly


----------



## Jordan08

bornagod said:


> Wouldnt have thought there was 'from a health perspective' only reason is as @Tricky said to see that your test is dosed correctly


 There can be. Something like you don't need to maintain above certain levels of Test levels on cycle so as to avoid the sides and get the best out of it?. Don't know. Stupid questions leads to unheard knowledge sometimes.


----------



## bornagod

Jatin Bhatia said:


> There can be. Something like you don't need to maintain above certain levels of Test levels on cycle so as to avoid the sides and get the best out of it?. Don't know. Stupid questions leads to unheard knowledge sometimes.


 Yes very true, if you dont ask the question you'll never know i suppose. But I'm sure @ElChapo can shed some light whether theres other reasons why to have T levels tested on cycle


----------



## Matt2

ElChapo said:


> No test would enhance fertility more, i would run test but only if you were starting from scratch.
> 
> Basically, we need HCG/LH/FSH in the blood at high levels to wake up and restart production of sperm.
> 
> We accomplish this by dropping test which will bring LH/FSH up high, adding HCG, another gonadotropin with mimetic effects to LH/FSH, and adding clomiphene which will further stimulate gonadotropin production in pituitary. 3-6 months you will start seeing nice recovery, if you are lucky you will get her pregnant quick and be done with this as it is not optimal for health/wellbeing, pure for fertility.


 Would you not also recommend Proviron (100mg/d) to increase sperm quality/mobility?


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

*Masteron or Proviron?*

*Assumptions:*

1. Long-long-term, constant use on both blasts and cruises.

2. Reasons for using both are libido and SHBG affinity.

3. Cost/affordability and sourcing legit product are not considerations.

*Follow up Qs/my unknowns:*

1. Do either have benefits that the other does not confer?

2. Do either have drawbacks that the other does not?

3. Is there any truth to the other "benefits" of either of these DHTs beyond libido and SHBG affinity e.g. mental well-being, strength, hardening (whatever that is??), etc.?

Again, I realise a lot of info is out there on these compounds on e.g. steiord.com; but like last time, I'm super-interested in what position you take on this.

Thank you and much love.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Ill continue ralox.
> 
> Its said that igf is reduced when using raloxifene by around d 15% in one study. What if any impact would this have on gains if running for many weeks?
> 
> Also your views on how rolaxefine reduces density of bones and possibly makes them more brittle?


 The 15% decrease i would not worry about as this will be offset by anabolics, training stimulus and diet. If you have an issue with it, don't run tren or any compounds that give you gyno. You could also run ralox post cycle to reverse any gyno you incurred from the cycle. You have options.

Raloxifene makes bones stronger, it's a drug made for osteoporosis not breast cancer. It's an estrogen agonist in bones. Antagonist in mammary glands.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> E2 is understandable. Why Testosterone during the cycle?


 Because unless you synthesized the testosterone yourself in the lab and made your own raw powder, you and UGL do not know the quality or potency of the raw material.

You also want to see how high your levels get with your dosage, but most importantly to test the legitimacy of your testosterone. Just because you "trust your lab" doesn't mean every batch will be the same quality. They use different raws, it's not always the same. It's just extra insurance. Too many guys run bunk or half-dosed oil and you see it caught in blood work ALL the time. This is a business, and a black market one at that, so be intelligent.

You have three middle men, the hormone synthesizer, the chinese raws distributor, and your UGL. The raw distributor can give you old or low quality powder, and cut powder with precursor hormones. The UGL can then further lower the concentration by underdosing or miscalculating the formula. There is a lot that can go wrong.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I was talking from health perspective though.





Jatin Bhatia said:


> There can be. Something like you don't need to maintain above certain levels of Test levels on cycle so as to avoid the sides and get the best out of it?. Don't know. Stupid questions leads to unheard knowledge sometimes.


 Two give an example, i think i saw blood around here a few weeks ago. The guy was taking something like 500 mg per week. His testosterone was maybe 1,000 ng/dL, still in normal range. Imagine he took even less just to do a mild cycle, he could even have ended up in hypogonadal levels, you already know the health implications of low testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt2 said:


> Would you not also recommend Proviron (100mg/d) to increase sperm quality/mobility?


 No, i've seen one study where apparently it has a positive effect but there is not enough research. Other studies show a decrease in LH/FSH. You are better off taking clomiphene and HMG.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> *Masteron or Proviron?*
> 
> *Assumptions:*
> 
> 1. Long-long-term, constant use on both blasts and cruises.
> 
> 2. Reasons for using both are libido and SHBG affinity.
> 
> 3. Cost/affordability and sourcing legit product are not considerations.
> 
> *Follow up Qs/my unknowns:*
> 
> 1. Do either have benefits that the other does not confer?
> 
> 2. Do either have drawbacks that the other does not?
> 
> 3. Is there any truth to the other "benefits" of either of these DHTs beyond libido and SHBG affinity e.g. mental well-being, strength, hardening (whatever that is??), etc.?
> 
> Again, I realise a lot of info is out there on these compounds on e.g. steiord.com; but like last time, I'm super-interested in what position you take on this.
> 
> Thank you and much love.


 Mast is more cosmetic, proviron is more the mental/libido effect.

Tons of people can give you account of well-being, hardening strength, etc from these AAS. I can agree with all the above. They do also increase free testosterone and seem to mitigate estrogenic sides as well.

Glad to help, if you have a more specific question i didn't address, feel free to shoot.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Mast is more cosmetic, proviron is more the mental/libido effect.
> 
> Tons of people can give you account of well-being, hardening strength, etc from these AAS. I can agree with all the above. They do also increase free testosterone and seem to mitigate estrogenic sides as well.
> 
> Glad to help, if you have a more specific question i didn't address, feel free to shoot.


 Awesome, thanks.

So it would seem from your answer that a combination of the two would be best (cosmetic, and mental/libido). Any recs on the minimum effective dose (I realise everyone is different... but if you had to stab in the dark)..?

Like 100 mast pw and 25 pro ED? Or 300/50, 600/100 (lol), etc..

Thank you, man!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome, thanks.
> 
> So it would seem from your answer that a combination of the two would be best (cosmetic, and mental/libido). Any recs on the minimum effective dose (I realise everyone is different... but if you had to stab in the dark)..?
> 
> Like 100 mast pw and 25 pro ED? Or 300/50, 600/100 (lol), etc..
> 
> Thank you, man!


 Instead, i would experiment with both solo, and pick the one you feel/like the best. Keep it simple.

Mast 150-300 mg

proviron 25-50 mg

Very mild AAS, most of the time won't even affect blood work or BP, especially at lower doses.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Instead, i would experiment with both solo, and pick the one you feel/like the best. Keep it simple.
> 
> Mast 150-300 mg
> 
> proviron 25-50 mg
> 
> Very mild AAS, most of the time won't even affect blood work or BP, especially at lower doses.


 Planet perfect. Thanks, Guzman!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Planet perfect. Thanks, Guzman!


 Anytime brother, DHT's are great for enhancing a cruise/HRT.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> No, i've seen one study where apparently it has a positive effect but there is not enough research. Other studies show a decrease in LH/FSH. You are better off taking clomiphene and HMG.


 Sorry to jump in here.

Would clomid and HMG also increase chances of pregnancy (increase sperm count and motility) for someone on TRT.

I Know coming off is best for all round chances but for me would be worth a try while crusing instead of intoxicating myself with copious PCT meds first hand.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Sorry to jump in here.
> 
> Would clomid and HMG also increase chances of pregnancy (increase sperm count and motility) for someone on TRT.
> 
> I Know coming off is best for all round chances but for me would be worth a try while crusing instead of intoxicating myself with copious PCT meds first hand.


 HMG/hcg would, on cycle/HRT, clomid won't boost LH/FSH.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Anytime brother, DHT's are great for enhancing a cruise/HRT.


 At moment I'm cruising with TestE 200mg + MastE 200mg week and it is seems right, furthermore cutting with T3 50mcg and fat is melting off very well.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> The 15% decrease i would not worry about as this will be offset by anabolics, training stimulus and diet. If you have an issue with it, don't run tren or any compounds that give you gyno. You could also run ralox post cycle to reverse any gyno you incurred from the cycle. You have options.
> 
> Raloxifene makes bones stronger, it's a drug made for osteoporosis not breast cancer. It's an estrogen agonist in bones. Antagonist in mammary glands.


 Great to know because I just purchased 250 tabs of rolaxefine which should be a good thing for me to have on hand.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080777

Good to know about bones, just read it I'm a forum post when researching rolaxefine which by the looks of it can't be more wrong.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> HMG/hcg would, on cycle/HRT, clomid won't boost LH/FSH.


 Brilliant, I use HCG on cycle anyhow but I'll hammer HMG and my bank account when we do decide to try.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Great to know because I just purchased 250 tabs of rolaxefine which should be a good thing for me to have on hand.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080777
> 
> Good to know about bones, just read it I'm a forum post when researching rolaxefine which by the looks of it can't be more wrong.


 Broscience at it's finest lmao


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Brilliant, I use HCG on cycle anyhow but I'll hammer HMG and my bank account when we do decide to try.


 Great, you might not even need HMG.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Broscience at it's finest lmao


 Sorry the formatting of that last message messed up and I must have cleared the text, in that link it shows the study of rolaxefine and igf. Appears this was done with 8 males and reduced igf by around 15% however they were using 120mg ed whereas I'm using 60mg so I should be affected seldom In comparison.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Sorry the formatting of that last message messed up and I must have cleared the text, in that link it shows the study of rolaxefine and igf. Appears this was done with 8 males and reduced igf by around 15% however they were using 120mg ed whereas I'm using 60mg so I should be affected seldom In comparison.


 You would also be taking AAS, which increase IGF and IGF signalling in the body. That 15% decrease was natty individuals taking 120 mg. You will be okay.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo sorry dude im exploiting your good nature this afternoon!

Another one - i know you have touched on this subject a few times on this thread however in my next cut i want to try T3 to assist. In a past reply to me you advised that T4 is not necessary if I am only cutting for a short time and using T3 however for those who use it long term should run T4 along side.

To cut to the chase, i managed to acquire T4 for next to nothing.

in my next cut could i run T3 at 50mcg and T4 at 100mcg ED for the duration of the cut or would this be to high due to the fact the T4 will also convert to T3? or should i run lower dosage to start with or not even bother with T4 at all?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo sorry dude im exploiting your good nature this afternoon!
> 
> Another one - i know you have touched on this subject a few times on this thread however in my next cut i want to try T3 to assist. In a past reply to me you advised that T4 is not necessary if I am only cutting for a short time and using T3 however for those who use it long term should run T4 along side.
> 
> To cut to the chase, i managed to acquire T4 for next to nothing.
> 
> in my next cut could i run T3 at 50mcg and T4 at 100mcg ED for the duration of the cut or would this be to high due to the fact the T4 will also convert to T3? or should i run lower dosage to start with or not even bother with T4 at all?


 That will work fine, the T4 won't convert to that much T3 especially while cutting as the body limits conversion during caloric deficit/periods of starvation.


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo

Been looking at triumphs oral mtren, how would you dose this? as most the advice I've seen regarding mtren has been the injectable form.


----------



## Jordan08

Can raloxifene cause hair loss?


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo10mg d Bol pre work Ed for a long period of time is it worth it strength wise and would there be any gains from it


----------



## bornagod

As promised @ElChapo

This is all i was handed for my results sorry, everything is as the doctor said 'normal' anything you can see maybe she doesn't?








Sorry for the shìt copy this is all i have


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Been looking at triumphs oral mtren, how would you dose this? as most the advice I've seen regarding mtren has been the injectable form.


 I wouldn't take it oral. The stuff is toxic as hell. Definitely throw in some tudca if you are going to use. Injectable makes it less toxic and more bioavailable.

500 mcg-2 mg is the usual range. They say pre-workout, but take it once daily will do the job. I still recommend injectable. Winstrol is much safer as an oral.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Can raloxifene cause hair loss?


 Not that i know of, there is no mechanism i could think of for it to do so. Maybe diffuse hair loss that people get as a reaction to certain medications but not androgenetic alopecia.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo10mg d Bol pre work Ed for a long period of time is it worth it strength wise and would there be any gains from it


 Pre-workout orals are overrated, take it once a day. I'm not fan of dbol. Winstrol does everything better, doesn't cause gyno or excess water retention.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> As promised @ElChapo
> 
> This is all i was handed for my results sorry, everything is as the doctor said 'normal' anything you can see maybe she doesn't?
> View attachment 143621
> 
> 
> Sorry for the shìt copy this is all i have


 Eh, not a lot of data here at all. I don't see Free T3 for thyroid. This is the most important hormone to assess thyroid activity in the body. Otherwise everything looks normal, but it's just a plain old, boring CBC. Doesn't tell you much about your overall health. There's no liver/kidney values, hormones, etc. Very plain


----------



## Pancake'

Would you and @ghost.recon be willing to analyse some DNA data from 23andme, when I order a kit from them? maybe bloodwork also? (seeing you love it.)  it would be greatly appreciated. but if not, I understand.  thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Would you and @ghost.recon be willing to analyse some DNA data from 23andme, when I order a kit from them? maybe bloodwork also? (seeing you love it.)  it would be greatly appreciated. but if not, I understand.  thanks


 I'm not doing any at the moment, but when you get it, PM me and i will guide you through it a bit if i have some time.


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo ive been dapping in and out of this thread so apologies if this has already been asked but you seem to speak highly of winny

my only concern with it is its effect on connective tissue

its one of the only steroids ive avoided for this very reason being someone that competes and trains primarily for powerlifting im working with higher intensities for longer periods of time than someone training more for physique so connective tissue can take a bit of a knock at the best of times

is there any real backing to winny and its 'thickening and weakening' of connective tissue that ive heard banded about? and if so would something like growth or nandrolone counter this to any notable extent?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo ive been dapping in and out of this thread so apologies if this has already been asked but you seem to speak highly of winny
> 
> my only concern with it is its effect on connective tissue
> 
> its one of the only steroids ive avoided for this very reason being someone that competes and trains primarily for powerlifting im working with higher intensities for longer periods of time than someone training more for physique so connective tissue can take a bit of a knock at the best of times
> 
> is there any real backing to winny and its 'thickening and weakening' of connective tissue that ive heard banded about? and if so would something like growth or nandrolone counter this to any notable extent?


 You will LOVE winstrol for powerlifting, if you don't get the joint issues. Some guys love winstrol, others hate it usually based off this side effect. It is amazing for strength while adding dry lean tissue, it's cheap and easy to find.

Winstrol increases collagen, some say it's weaker collagen yada yada. It's all BS, tons of powerlifters and olympic lifters use winstrol. Stanozolol popped in the olympic weightlifting category a couple of times. Ben Johnson ( sprinter) got caught with winstrol. He claims he thought he was taking furazabol ( similar to winstrol), but if a sprinter/oly lifters can take it, you will be fine. Just give it a shot, people think they pop a winstrol pill and their miniscus is gonna snap off.


----------



## 18650

I know you touched upon this briefly several posts above so I apologise in advance if I'm forcing you to repeat yourself. I'm sure plenty of others on the board willl greatly appreciate your input on the matter.

SHBG, one of the main reasons I started using stanozolol when I started juicing again approximately one year ago was stanozolols alleged affect on lowering SHBG. I'd read that lowering SHBG allowed any bound testosterone to become free, allowing more testosterone to become available to receptors, this in turn would make cycles more efficient/give better results.

I've read a lot into the subject since then and plenty of more experienced users than myself claim that lowering SHBG causes minimal affects on free test and test was test whether it's bound to SHBG or not.

Can you put a nail in this coffin once and for all?

Many thanks ElChapo.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Eh, not a lot of data here at all. I don't see Free T3 for thyroid. This is the most important hormone to assess thyroid activity in the body. Otherwise everything looks normal, but it's just a plain old, boring CBC. Doesn't tell you much about your overall health. There's no liver/kidney values, hormones, etc. Very plain


 I know quite shìt but i suppose thats doctors for you! As long as hct is in range, cos that was my main concern. I'll get another blood test done by medichecks as soon as i can


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

Best to take d Bol all at once or split through out the day thanks


----------



## DC1

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo ive been dapping in and out of this thread so apologies if this has already been asked but you seem to speak highly of winny
> 
> my only concern with it is its effect on connective tissue
> 
> its one of the only steroids ive avoided for this very reason being someone that competes and trains primarily for powerlifting im working with higher intensities for longer periods of time than someone training more for physique so connective tissue can take a bit of a knock at the best of times
> 
> is there any real backing to winny and its 'thickening and weakening' of connective tissue that ive heard banded about? and if so would something like growth or nandrolone counter this to any notable extent?


 I took It years ago and had joint issues. Started it again less than 2 weeks ago and my wrists, shoulders and even my calf has started to suffer from aches and slight pulls already.

I'm going to try and persevere with it for another while yet but if the issue persists I'll need to drop it again.


----------



## Jordan08

Are squats really necessary for good wheels?


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Best to take d Bol all at once or split through out the day thanks


 once daily is enough


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Are squats really necessary for good wheels?


 No, but they are great tool. Most impressive legs have been built with squats, tom platz did 500 lbs for 23 reps, ass to grass.

Focus on building strong squats and add leg press and machines for hammies/quads with high volume. eat enough to support growth, you will get nice leg development. If you are taller, it takes a bit longer to fill them out but the process is still the same.


----------



## ElChapo

DC1 said:


> I took It years ago and had joint issues. Started it again less than 2 weeks ago and my wrists, shoulders and even my calf has started to suffer from aches and slight pulls already.
> 
> I'm going to try and persevere with it for another while yet but if the issue persists I'll need to drop it again.


 Yeah some guys can't use tren due to the severe mental sides some get from it. Everyone responds differently to different drugs. Fortunately, diet and training are 90% of the equation.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> I know you touched upon this briefly several posts above so I apologise in advance if I'm forcing you to repeat yourself. I'm sure plenty of others on the board willl greatly appreciate your input on the matter.
> 
> SHBG, one of the main reasons I started using stanozolol when I started lifting again approximately one year ago was stanozolols alleged affect on lowering SHBG. I'd read that lowering SHBG allowed any testosterone binded to become free, allowing more testosterone to become available to receptors, this in turn would make cycles more efficient/give better results.
> 
> I've since read into this a lot since then and plenty of more experienced users than myself claim that lowering SHBG causes minimal affects on free test and test was test whether it's binded to SHBG or not.
> 
> Can you put a nail in this coffin once and for all?
> 
> Many thanks ElChapo.


 Not at all, free testosterone is the most active fraction. Protein bound testosterone ( shbg/albumin) is still bioactive, but to a much lesser extent.

A 2017 study showed hypogonadism symptoms correlated most with FREE testosterone levels. Not total, we see the same with the thyroid hormones. Guys saying otherwise lack a basic understanding of physiology/endocrinology.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> Not at all, free testosterone is the most active fraction. Protein bound testosterone ( shbg/albumin) is still bioactive, but to a much lesser extent.
> 
> A 2017 study showed hypogonadism symptoms correlated most with FREE testosterone levels. Not total, we see the same with the thyroid hormones. Guys saying otherwise lack a basic understanding of physiology/endocrinology.


 Damn ElChapo, anybody ever tell you you're good?

You're a true gent brother.

Appreciated.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Damn ElChapo, anybody ever tell you you're good?
> 
> You're a true gent brother.
> 
> Appreciated.


 Thank you for the kind words brother.


----------



## Tricky

Is it ok to take t3 with breakfast or should I take it before bed when not eating anything an hour before bed and for 5 hours after?


----------



## Jordan08

No question for you today. Just want to request you that if you ever decide not to post here anymore. Let us know in this thread and where we can contact you :lol:


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo my wife is taking Sertraline @ 200mg ED and she is suffering from bad lethargy and unable to sleep at night.

Is this down to the Sertraline and is there anything she could take to help her with sleep and energy ?


----------



## Nara

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo my wife is taking Sertraline @ 200mg ED and she is suffering from bad lethargy and unable to sleep at night.
> 
> Is this down to the Sertraline and is there anything she could take to help her with sleep and energy ?


 I'm also on sertraline at 100mg then lowered it to 50mg due to lethargy and constantly sleepy. Went to GP got my bloods back and my vitamin b12 was very very low. So if anything get her to get more iron and vitamin b12 in her and this should help. Sorry @ElChapo correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo my wife is taking Sertraline @ 200mg ED and she is suffering from bad lethargy and unable to sleep at night.
> 
> Is this down to the Sertraline and is there anything she could take to help her with sleep and energy ?


 Common side effect. It comes with the SSRIs. You could try a different class of anti-depressant, those that increase dopamine/noradrenaline tend to promote energy/motivation more. Serotonin is more of a "content" feeling. Dopamine is your, passion/motivation/excitement feeling.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> I'm also on sertraline at 100mg then lowered it to 50mg due to lethargy and constantly sleepy. Went to GP got my bloods back and my vitamin b12 was very very low. So if anything get her to get more iron and vitamin b12 in her and this should help. Sorry @ElChapo correct me if I'm wrong.


 Not at all, i was also going to mention the same. You want to check for common nutritional deficiencies such as vitamin D and B12. I know you folk in the UK don't get much sunlight year round, it is VERY important to keep your vitamin at least over 40 ng/mL.

Vitamin D is important for mood/well-being, immune function, muscle and bone strength, and many other functions in the body.

If she's not exercising, she should start, it is one of the best medicines for depression/anxiety and has been shown to be as effective as medication in many studies.

@GeordieOak70


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Is it ok to take t3 with breakfast or should I take it before bed when not eating anything an hour before bed and for 5 hours after?


 T3 can be taken with food. *T4* must be taken away from food ( 1 hour before or 4 hours after) for maximal absorption. This includes coffee/tea/supplements.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> No question for you today. Just want to request you that if you ever decide not to post here anymore. Let us know in this thread and where we can contact you :lol:


 I think i'll stick around for a while.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> I think i'll stick around for a while.


 You must be getting sick of it now dude. Do you want a better and start an AMA 4 thread later :lol:


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

What is your views on orals and stomach ulcers? I used orals a year or so ago and around that time suffered a stomach ulcer (had a camera shoved down my throte to check) which went away over time with omoprazole. Like aspirin and ibruprofien they can cause stomach ulcers - can winni, anavar, dbol etc also cause this?

Im not sure if my case was a co-incidence or not and i would ideally like to try orals some time in the future again.

If so is there a way to use orals while reducing the chances of them such as taking them with food?


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> You must be getting sick of it now dude. Do you want a better and start an AMA 4 thread later :lol:


 Not at all, i love patient teaching/sharing knowledge with others. It's not just my job, but my calling. Everytime i answer a question or give an opinion, i get to review my knowledge again. Helps keep it fresh


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What is your views on orals and stomach ulcers? I used orals a year or so ago and around that time suffered a stomach ulcer (had a camera shoved down my throte to check) which went away over time with omoprazole. Like aspirin and ibruprofien they can cause stomach ulcers - can winni, anavar, dbol etc also cause this?
> 
> Im not sure if my case was a co-incidence or not and i would ideally like to try orals some time in the future again.
> 
> If so is there a way to use orals while reducing the chances of them such as taking them with food?


 Incredibly rare, but oral AAS can be rough on the GI tract and some guys do better taking them with food for this reason. I don't know about causing ulcers though. Take with food if you are sensitive.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> Not at all, i love patient teaching/sharing knowledge with others. It's not just my job, but my calling. Everytime i answer a question or give an opinion, i get to review my knowledge again. Helps keep it fresh


 Ok cool,

Then I have a question based on your views on Winnie. I'm running a test tren mast and 50mg var cycle at the moment. 5 weeks done.

Now based on your views on Winnie. I think I'd like to try it again.

Should I stop the var asap and take up Winnie later on towards of the cycle.

Cycle length will be 12- 14 weeks but I was thinking about last 4 weeks of Winnie 50mg, mainly to see the effect.

Haven't decided to do PCT or cruise. To this day I have always stopped cycles and done PCT but based on your thread you seem to suggest going to a cruise dose is fine.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Ok cool,
> 
> Then I have a question based on your views on Winnie. I'm running a test tren mast and 50mg var cycle at the moment. 5 weeks done.
> 
> Now based on your views on Winnie. I think I'd like to try it again.
> 
> Should I stop the var asap and take up Winnie later on towards of the cycle.
> 
> Cycle length will be 12- 14 weeks but I was thinking about last 4 weeks of Winnie 50mg, mainly to see the effect.
> 
> Haven't decided to do PCT or cruise. To this day I have always stopped cycles and done PCT but based on your thread you seem to suggest going to a cruise dose is fine.


 I can't make any of these choices for you.

If you want see the effect of winstrol, i suggest you leave it for a solo cycle where you run it with testosterone base for 6-12 weeks.


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo

Currently running 100mg winstrol ED after seeing you rate it and must admit I'm impressed.

I've only got a few more weeks of Winnie left and was thinking to switch over to injectable mtren, my question is how would say 1mg mtren ED compare to the 100mg winstrol I've been running ED.


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo Will 50mg of winny give good results for lean muscle tissue gains or is it one of those orals where more is better? Such as 100mg?


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> I can't make any of these choices for you.
> 
> If you want see the effect of winstrol, i suggest you leave it for a solo cycle where you run it with testosterone base for 6-12 weeks.


 Should have made it clearer. Realise i didn't actually ask a question.

What I meant to ask was as regarding liver toxicity. Did it seem sensible in terms of health?


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Currently running 100mg winstrol ED after seeing you rate it and must admit I'm impressed.
> 
> I've only got a few more weeks of Winnie left and was thinking to switch over to injectable mtren, my question is how would say 1mg mtren ED compare to the 100mg winstrol I've been running ED.


 Winstrol is better for lean tissue, strength, safety profile, etc. You really don't need anything more than test+winstrol or tren. They cover all bases.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo Will 50mg of winny give good results for lean muscle tissue gains or is it one of those orals where more is better? Such as 100mg?


 50-100 mg is my recommendation for bodybuilding. 25 mg daily is good for athletes.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> Should have made it clearer. Realise i didn't actually ask a question.
> 
> What I meant to ask was as regarding liver toxicity. Did it seem sensible in terms of health?


 You can run winstrol +12 weeks with TUDCA, at reasonable doses (50-100 mg). Otherwise, even 8 weeks without TUDCA, most people will be fine if they are generally healthy and don't drink/use other drugs.


----------



## sponge2015

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is better for lean tissue, strength, safety profile, etc. You really don't need anything more than test+winstrol or tren. They cover all bases.


 I'm cutting down atm, so you don't think mtren at that dosage would offer anything aesthetically that winstrol doesn't.


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> You can run winstrol +12 weeks with TUDCA, at reasonable doses (50-100 mg). Otherwise, even 8 weeks without TUDCA, most people will be fine if they are generally healthy and don't drink/use other drugs.


 ok cool, thank you


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> I'm cutting down atm, so you don't think mtren at that dosage would offer anything aesthetically that winstrol doesn't.


 Nah, winstrol is what you wanna run. You will see more from winstrol. M-tren is more a CNS stimulant for training intensity/strength with some recomp/drying effect.

Winstrol will build more muscle, provide strength and drying/vascularity effect, it's less toxic, easier to find and cheap.


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> You can run winstrol +12 weeks with TUDCA, at reasonable doses (50-100 mg). Otherwise, even 8 weeks without TUDCA, most people will be fine if they are generally healthy and don't drink/use other drugs.


 What if you drink/use recreational drugs on very rare occasions? i.e every 2-3 months


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> What if you drink/use recreational drugs on very rare occasions? i.e every 2-3 months


 I can't recommend that. Don't touch orals if you drink regularly or plan on partying. To answer the question, if you are going to have a couple of beers or a glass or two of wine, that's okay, but a straight binge on alcohol while on orals is just retarded and asking for liver damage.


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> I can't recommend that. Don't touch orals if you drink regularly or plan on partying. To answer the question, if you are going to have a couple of beers or a glass or two of wine, that's okay, but a straight binge on alcohol while on orals is just retarded and asking for liver damage.


 So ive got an event on the 22nd July. I want to start Winstrol tomorrow? Is there any way I can work it around or should I just start after the event?

Thanks man.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> So ive got an event on the 22nd July. I want to start Winstrol tomorrow? Is there any way I can work it around or should I just start after the event?
> 
> Thanks man.


 "Event"? lol


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> So ive got an event on the 22nd July. I want to start Winstrol tomorrow? Is there any way I can work it around or should I just start after the event?
> 
> Thanks man.


 Start afterwards


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> "Event"? lol


 Yeh not that type of event.......just weekend away with the lads for a birthday.....but s**t gets out of hand there! lol


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Incredibly rare, but oral AAS can be rough on the GI tract and some guys do better taking them with food for this reason. I don't know about causing ulcers though. Take with food if you are sensitive.


 Thanks, just outa interest - how comes ibuprofen and aspirin are known to cause stomach ulcers but as you say oral AAS are unlikely to cause them? is there something the forma do to the stomach lining/acid that the oral AAS do not?


----------



## Oldnewb

@ElChapo

What are your thoughts on cruising on a higher dose (500mg) long term of test e / sustanon and rather than blasting for a long period, adding some fast acting compounds when feeling like raising food and intensity levels for a few weeks at a time (3-4 weeks max)

As opposed to doing full 10-15 week blasts of higher amounts of gear and low cruise dose.


----------



## capo

ElChapo said:


> I can't recommend that. Don't touch orals if you drink regularly or plan on partying. To answer the question, if you are going to have a couple of beers or a glass or two of wine, that's okay, but a straight binge on alcohol while on orals is just retarded and asking for liver damage.


 Just out of interest if running winstrol for 5 weeks prior to a week holiday ,100mg a day with tudca ,how long should you stop it before going dont really drink year round but have a few on holiday would 7-10 days be sufficient .


----------



## Tricky

capo said:


> Just out of interest if running winstrol for 5 weeks prior to a week holiday ,100mg a day with tudca ,how long should you stop it before going dont really drink year round but have a few on holiday would 7-10 days be sufficient .


 Are you running test too? Will you be continuing after holidays on orals and or test


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks, just outa interest - how comes ibuprofen and aspirin are known to cause stomach ulcers but as you say oral AAS are unlikely to cause them? is there something the forma do to the stomach lining/acid that the oral AAS do not?


 "NSAIDs can cause damage to the gastroduodenal mucosa via several mechanisms, including the topical irritant effect of these drugs on the epithelium, impairment of the barrier properties of the mucosa, suppression of gastric prostaglandin synthesis, reduction of gastric mucosal blood flow and interference with the repair of superficial injury."

Alkylated AAS won't do that^, at most you will get GI irritation. I'm not saying it'a not possible, but how many guys popping +100 mg orals getting ulcers?

NSAIDs can cause ulcers through the mechanisms quoted above..


----------



## ElChapo

Oldnewb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are your thoughts on cruising on a higher dose (500mg) long term of test e / sustanon and rather than blasting for a long period, adding some fast acting compounds when feeling like raising food and intensity levels for a few weeks at a time (3-4 weeks max)
> 
> As opposed to doing full 10-15 week blasts of higher amounts of gear and low cruise dose.


 You're better off blasting and crusing.

You gotta take breaks from training/bulking, no reason to run high test if you are just maintaining and can get by on TRT/300 MG.

If you're a pro or compete at high level in bodybuilding/powerlifting, you might need that 500 mg to maintain, but for the average recreational BB, most wont need to cruise on 500 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> Just out of interest if running winstrol for 5 weeks prior to a week holiday ,100mg a day with tudca ,how long should you stop it before going dont really drink year round but have a few on holiday would 7-10 days be sufficient .


 Don't run a high dose oral cycle around a time you will be partying. drink in moderation or dont use the AAS. A week or two won't save your liver.

You might be fine, but i cant condone it. The choice is yours.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> "NSAIDs can cause damage to the gastroduodenal mucosa via several mechanisms, including the topical irritant effect of these drugs on the epithelium, impairment of the barrier properties of the mucosa, suppression of gastric prostaglandin synthesis, reduction of gastric mucosal blood flow and interference with the repair of superficial injury."
> 
> Alkylated AAS won't do that^, at most you will get GI irritation. I'm not saying it'a not possible, but how many guys popping +100 mg orals getting ulcers?
> 
> NSAIDs can cause ulcers through the mechanisms quoted above..


 Nice to know, i have 2 packs of Pharmacom Winni on the way to me. Will be interesting to give this a try and see the results.

Also a bonus, i have 2 packs of pharma grade UDCA (not TUDCA) to run along side - Assume 500mg is ample for 50mg winni ED?

Also when running orals we need to ensure we consume more water than you would using say test E alone for obvious reasons. A gallon is usually recommended, naturally this will be split across the day however in some cases it may not be easy to consume the whole gallon split throughout the day evenly. For arguments sake, lets say its near the end of the day and i have only consumed 1 litre of water, if i was to drink 3 litres in the space of a hour or so, would this still provide the same "flushing" benefits it would if i evenly split throughout the day?


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo is there any benefit in terms of a strength boost to taking a pre wo oral like mtren or a no estered injectable on the day of a meet whilst cruising / no compounds built up in system

(my blood work is no doubt shoddy so dont want to blast but have a last minute meet coming up that im toying with entering)


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo not sure whether you remember or not, but not too long ago i thought i may have high heamotocrit so i started taking aspirin just to be on the safe side. So i suppose the question is, can aspirin just be stopped or does it need to be tapared down?

Much appreciated for your help


----------



## iambazza

@ElChapo

Hi mate,

I cam across this study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24928725) which looks into the myotrophic actions of testosterone and trenbolone. I found it very interesting that via some pathways they acted similarly and in others they acted very differently - is the take home message (as obvious as it seems) that combining test and tren would produce more anabolism because more 'boxes are ticked' anabolically (all things being equal) and that other anabolics may also work along different pathways to induce the same goal, e.g. anabolism, therefore combining many different androgens may increase gains further?

I understand the above study to an extent, but would you be able to sum it up in laymans terms if possible? For example:

'greater suppression of atrogin-1 mRNA' (I believe this is linked to supression of something that causes muscle atrophy?)

'increases in expression of glucocorticoid receptor (GR) mRNA were suppressed'

'promoted WNT1-inducible-signaling pathway protein 2 (WISP-2) gene expression'

Thanks!


----------



## supertesty

Hey @ElChapo
hope you're good ?

1-Do you think EAA and/or peptopro worth using it ?

2-Do you think 1gr primo/w worth using it ?

3-Do you think injecting AAS in local have some SEO functions ?

4-In your opinion, what the best ways/protocol (massage, ice, peptides etc) to heal a muscle pain ?

5-Do you think stretching pwo increase hypertrophy ?

6-How do you rate tbol ?

thanks a lot


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Nice to know, i have 2 packs of Pharmacom Winni on the way to me. Will be interesting to give this a try and see the results.
> 
> Also a bonus, i have 2 packs of pharma grade UDCA (not TUDCA) to run along side - Assume 500mg is ample for 50mg winni ED?
> 
> Also when running orals we need to ensure we consume more water than you would using say test E alone for obvious reasons. A gallon is usually recommended, naturally this will be split across the day however in some cases it may not be easy to consume the whole gallon split throughout the day evenly. For arguments sake, lets say its near the end of the day and i have only consumed 1 litre of water, if i was to drink 3 litres in the space of a hour or so, would this still provide the same "flushing" benefits it would if i evenly split throughout the day?


 I've used their winstrol tabs, it was very good. UDCA/TUDCA 250-500 mg daily.

No need to consume more water on orals. 1/2-1 gallon is more than enough or until your urine is clear. You can drink most of your water in a small time period, it will hydrate you.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo is there any benefit in terms of a strength boost to taking a pre wo oral like mtren or a no estered injectable on the day of a meet whilst cruising / no compounds built up in system
> 
> (my blood work is no doubt shoddy so dont want to blast but have a last minute meet coming up that im toying with entering)


 I've used mtren and halo, i felt like they took about a week to kick like any other androgen. Personally, i feel there is some placebo effect to no-esters/oral preworkout.

When you are looking for immediate effects from drugs you are looking for "non-genomic" effects, the way caffeine wakes you up doesn't use gene expression, but the way AAS exert most of their effects is through "genomic effects", meaning just because your test is high from the first shot doesn't mean we will feel it.

We need to wait until that high test level begins to turn on genes that gives us the effects we are looking for (increase in protein synthesis, libido, etc).


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo not sure whether you remember or not, but not too long ago i thought i may have high heamotocrit so i started taking aspirin just to be on the safe side. So i suppose the question is, can aspirin just be stopped or does it need to be tapared down?
> 
> Much appreciated for your help


 You can stop it, aspirin won't lower hematocrit directly, but will make the blood thinner and less likely for RBC to coagulate and stick to each other. Fun fact, aspirin in fact comes from a tree bark that was used for medicinal purposes for centuries as a tea.

Metformin is also based off a plant.


----------



## ElChapo

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate,
> 
> I cam across this study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24928725) which looks into the myotrophic actions of testosterone and trenbolone. I found it very interesting that via some pathways they acted similarly and in others they acted very differently - is the take home message (as obvious as it seems) that combining test and tren would produce more anabolism because more 'boxes are ticked' anabolically (all things being equal) and that other anabolics may also work along different pathways to induce the same goal, e.g. anabolism, therefore combining many different androgens may increase gains further?
> 
> I understand the above study to an extent, but would you be able to sum it up in laymans terms if possible? For example:
> 
> 'greater suppression of atrogin-1 mRNA' (I believe this is linked to supression of something that causes muscle atrophy?)
> 
> 'increases in expression of glucocorticoid receptor (GR) mRNA were suppressed'
> 
> 'promoted WNT1-inducible-signaling pathway protein 2 (WISP-2) gene expression'
> 
> Thanks!


 Exactly, stacking works best because of the above. 600 mg test+300 mg tren will usually blow 1 gram of test out of water. Tren enhances the action of IGF-1 in muscle satellite cells by increasing sensitivity to IGF-1 at receptor level, it also affects glucorticoid receptors so that corticosteroids cannot exert their catabolic effect as easily.

I'm glad quoted that study as it mentions *gene expression.*


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Hey @ElChapo
> hope you're good ?
> 
> 1-Do you think EAA and/or peptopro worth using it ?
> 
> 2-Do you think 1gr primo/w worth using it ?
> 
> 3-Do you think injecting AAS in local have some SEO functions ?
> 
> 4-In your opinion, what the best ways/protocol (massage, ice, peptides etc) to heal a muscle pain ?
> 
> 5-Do you think stretching pwo increase hypertrophy ?
> 
> 6-How do you rate tbol ?
> 
> thanks a lot


 1- No, you get BCAA/EAA from foods and protein powder. There is minimal effect from using them. You may get an anti-fatigue effect during workouts from BCAA due to Leucine, isoleucine, and valine sharing the same transporter as tryptophan. Tryptophan is an amino acid and pre-cursor of serotonin which is the surrogate for exercise-induced fatigue/lethargy. By hogging transporters for tryptophan, BCAA can reduce serotonin in the brain and help fight fatigue. Otherwise, their use is limited.

2-No, test, tren, winstrl, masteron are much easier to find, less often faked, and great value for the money.

3-I do, if you inject high volumes into a muscle often enough, i have seen growth like you would see from SEO. That's just my observation though.

4-If you pulled or strained a muscle, take a full week off from ALL training. If it's mild/moderate you might be fully healed in the week. If it's still feeling funny, taking another week off, you should be completely healed by the second week unless you tore something badly. The same goes for sprains/joint tweaks. In the first three days of your week off, ice three times daily, for 20 minutes at a time. This will decrease inflammation, pain, and speed up the healing process.

5-Stretching pre-workout can actually increase the risk of injury. The only stretching is recommend is going through the actual movement (squatting to the ground and holding before squats) and the stretch you get from warming up with lighter weights. (Your first sets of bench warm up should give you a good stretch and get the muscles and joints loose enough) Stretching can also decrease performance by impairing muscle contraction. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20683355) Study is in sprinters, but we used the same anaerobic/explosive contractions as they do in weightlifting.

6-winstrol/sdrol is better.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> You can stop it, aspirin won't lower hematocrit directly, but will make the blood thinner and less likely for RBC to coagulate and stick to each other. Fun fact, aspirin in fact comes from a tree bark that was used for medicinal purposes for centuries as a tea.
> 
> Metformin is also based off a plant.


 Ye was only taking it for the 'makes blood less sticky' lol.

Ok cool thanks alot. I only ask cos i read soemwhere that it would have a rebound kind of effect once discontinued


----------



## supertesty

Thanks a lot buddy for this @ElChapo

Actually I had a bad pain in my left forearm during a rowing at 4 plates with proper form(no tear, no blood nothing). Cant understand why I had this while I was perfectly warmed up. I dont train biceps od back since 7 days now and pain is gone but I feel something "fragile" into that area so I dont know If I have to restart to train with light weight. I use ice and cupping with massage. When I turn my wrist outward to contract biceps, we can listen a little sound like its not "oily" into that (dont know how do describe)

Anyway, I already loose some ****in inch on that bicep in that quick loool

1-About SEO, lee priest told he had complication after using a lot of it like he needs punctions, like valves into his fingers because oils desentisize nerves or something like that. Bullshit ?

thanks a lot for ther other answers.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Great site, he is legit. Always uses himself as an example and backs up his ideas with science, research and logic. He looks great and stays lean year round.
> 
> His supplement company is honest too. I use his egg nog whey.
> 
> http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html : Another fantastic resource


 What do you think about his book Bigger. Leaner, Stronger? I'm going to buy it on Amazon.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> Thanks a lot buddy for this @ElChapo
> 
> Actually I had a bad pain in my left forearm during a rowing at 4 plates with proper form(no tear, no blood nothing). Cant understand why I had this while I was perfectly warmed up. I dont train biceps od back since 7 days now and pain is gone but I feel something "fragile" into that area so I dont know If I have to restart to train with light weight. I use ice and cupping with massage. When I turn my wrist outward to contract biceps, we can listen a little sound like its not "oily" into that (dont know how do describe)
> 
> Anyway, I already loose some ****in inch on that bicep in that quick loool
> 
> 1-About SEO, lee priest told he had complication after using a lot of it like he needs punctions, like valves into his fingers because oils desentisize nerves or something like that. Bullshit ?
> 
> thanks a lot for ther other answers.


 It happens, sometimes your muscle or joint gives out from fatigue. Take another week off if it feels funny, and when you get back, lower the weight and work your way back up.

About the SEO, i doubt it. Sounds like BS. He could have gotten an infection or something a long a nerve that caused permanent issues, this happened to Bostin Loyd, his left arm is permanently numb from some infection he got that affected his nerves.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> What do you think about his book Bigger. Leaner, Stronger? I'm going to buy it on Amazon.


 I would buy it, he's legit.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

@ElChapo What are your views on muscle sparring qualities on dnp if any? I'm trying to learn more about this fascinating drug


----------



## TinTin10

@ElChapo Im going to start a Test E cycle, however I will not be doing any cardio.

Instead, to make up the deficit, I will be using 500mg of DNP ed, 100mcg of Clen and 50mcg of T3.

Is this the safest way for me to do this? Or would you say this poses any danger?

I have been informed that the optimum way to approach steroid and substance use is ' the quickest way from A to B'. Is this also correct?


----------



## JohhnyC

TinTin10 said:


> @ElChapo Im going to start a Test E cycle, however I will not be doing any cardio.
> 
> Instead, to make up the deficit, I will be using 500mg of DNP ed, 100mcg of Clen and 50mcg of T3.
> 
> Is this the safest way for me to do this? Or would you say this poses any danger?
> 
> I have been informed that the optimum way to approach steroid and substance use is ' the quickest way from A to B'. Is this also correct?


 No-one and I mean no-one wants you f#cking up this thread like you do to the others. This is the best and most valuable thread in years and many of us are reading it several times and taking notes.

@Mingster @dtlv @Chelsea

can we do something about this guy? See the last few pages on the DNP below and maybe delete my post and then TinTin's post above to keep this thread clean and on topic.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/301254-using-dnp/?do=embed


----------



## TinTin10

JohhnyC said:


> No-one and I mean no-one wants you f#cking up this thread like you do to the others.


 This thread is titled 'Ask me anything'.....im asking a legit question.

Legit in the sense that if I'm wrong about what I think I've learned from the research I've done into bodybuilding, then I'd like someone as knowledgeable as Chapo to explain the actual truth.

So wind your neck in mate.


----------



## Tricky

TinTin10 said:


> This thread is titled 'Ask me anything'.....im asking a legit question.
> 
> Legit in the sense that if I'm wrong about what I think I've learned from the research I've done into bodybuilding, then I'd like someone as knowledgeable as Chapo to explain the actual truth.
> 
> So wind your neck in mate.


 This thread is very informative and please do not to try which your doing to turn this into a tit for tat thread and ruin over 80 pages of questions and information. @Mingster @Chelsea Sorry I can't think of any other active mods but any chance nipping this before it details a genuine thread please


----------



## TinTin10

Tricky said:


> This thread is very informative and please do not to try which your doing to turn this into a tit for tat thread and ruin over 80 pages of questions and information. @Mingster @Chelsea Sorry I can't think of any other active mods but any chance nipping this before it details a genuine thread please


 So this is what the site has come to? Members telling other members what they can and cannot ask in a thread entitled 'Ask Me Anything' ?

The only people derailing this thread at the minute is you and the other lad.

I should be entitled to get an answer to see if I am going wrong in my approach?


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> @ElChapo Im going to start a Test E cycle, however I will not be doing any cardio.
> 
> Instead, to make up the deficit, I will be using 500mg of DNP ed, 100mcg of Clen and 50mcg of T3.
> 
> Is this the safest way for me to do this? Or would you say this poses any danger?
> 
> I have been informed that the optimum way to approach steroid and substance use is ' the quickest way from A to B'. Is this also correct?


 Is this for cutting?

That last statement is a broad oversimplification, there are too many variables to make such a statement. Context is everything.


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> @ElChapo What are your views on muscle sparring qualities on dnp if any? I'm trying to learn more about this fascinating drug


 I would still run AAS if are maintaining gains from a cycle or built with AAS when running DNP for a cut.


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> Is this for cutting?
> 
> That last statement is a broad oversimplification, there are too many variables to make such a statement. Context is everything.


 Yeah for cutting.

And in terms of taking DNP, T3 and Clen for fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> Yeah for cutting.
> 
> And in terms of taking DNP, T3 and Clen for fat loss.


 It will work very good, i won't call it safe or healthy but you won't need cardio.

If you can throw in some fasted walking in the mornings for 30-60 minutes, x 3-4 per week, you will absolutely torch fat.

You also have to count your calories, i would go for a 25% deficit or -500 calories from your daily TDEE for best results.

Make sure you lift weights to help preserve muscle and further increase fat loss.

Control E2 with AI as well.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> I would still run AAS if are maintaining gains from a cycle or built with AAS when running DNP for a cut.


 Yes I am running trt dose but did swap from prop to test e about a week before starting dnp

Haven't lost any strength suppose a good sign


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> It will work very good, i won't call it safe or healthy but you won't need cardio.


 Thank you @Tricky @TinTin10

I did say not the most sensible idea but cardio is NOT needed


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Yes I am running trt dose but did swap from prop to test e about a week before starting dnp
> 
> Haven't lost any strength suppose a good sign


 It's the best sign. No strength loss = minimal or zero muscle loss. It's the best way to measure muscle retention.

On a cut, when you are losing weight but not strength, you can be sure 90% of the weight loss if pure fat. When you start to lose excess amounts of strength, you know you need to go back to the drawing board and make some adjustments ( increase calories/decrease volume/etc)


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> It's the best sign. No strength loss = minimal or zero muscle loss. It's the best way to measure muscle retention.


 I haven't stopped my weight training on dnp but have lowered volume will try some deadlift tonight that would give me a good indication of overall strength and if any lost.


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Thank you @Tricky
> 
> I did say not the most sensible idea but cardio is NOT needed


 It isn't, just that cardio is as effective as a fat burner. A good stim like clen/EC stack will maybe burn 200-300 calories extra daily. Throw in cardio and you double that effect.


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> I haven't stopped my weight training on dnp but have lowered volume will try some deadlift tonight that would give me a good indication of overall strength and if any lost.


 Yeah, main goal is to retain 90-100% strength on your cut. Usually, the pressing movements get hit the hardest (bench press/shoulder press). High volume is not needed, intensity should remain high though.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> It isn't, just that cardio is as effective as a fat burner. A good stim like clen/EC stack will maybe burn 200-300 calories extra daily. Throw in cardio and you double that effect.


 Yep I do cardio anyway we were just clearing up another debate in another thread where tintin felt that not doing cardio on dnp clen etc was super unsafe but @Tricky has an injury which means only lifting is possible so it's fair cop


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> It will work very good, i won't call it safe or healthy but you won't need cardio.


 What is the reason that cardio is not needed?

Would it be in the sense that you will lose weight anyway without the need for cardio?

If so, would I be correct in venturing it would only be beneficial/safer to do some sort of cardio, if only for cardio-vascular health whilst on cycle?


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, main goal is to retain 90-100% strength on your cut. Usually, the pressing movements get hit the hardest (bench press/shoulder press). High volume is not needed, intensity should remain high though.


 Brilliant thought so. Bench last night was still strong as ever and I'm two days to dropping dnp. Deadlift will clear up the other side of the coin so will report back how that goes


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Yep I do cardio anyway we were just clearing up another debate in another thread where tintin felt that not doing cardio on dnp clen etc was super unsafe but @Tricky has an injury which means only lifting is possible so it's fair cop


 Yeah, i agree. No reason to avoid cutting because you can't do cardio. I would do the same.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

TinTin10 said:


> What is the reason that cardio is not needed?
> 
> Would it be in the sense that you will lose weight anyway without the need for cardio?
> 
> If so, would I be correct in venturing it would only be beneficial/safer to do some sort of cardio, if only for cardio-vascular health whilst on cycle?


 Yes. But you won't die from not doing it on a stack like that. Unless you sit inside a sauna for an hour


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> What is the reason that cardio is not needed?
> 
> Would it be in the sense that you will lose weight anyway without the need for cardio?
> 
> If so, would I be correct in venturing it would only be beneficial/safer to do some sort of cardio, if only for cardio-vascular health whilst on cycle?


 Cardio isn't needed because energy balance is # 1. If you are burning more energy than you consume, your body will use the fat stored inside it for fuel.

All cardio does is increase energy expenditure, making it easier to be in a negative energy balance and elicit the fat loss.

Now, in terms of health, regular cardio should be in everyone's regimine, but we are talking about aesthetics/bodybuilding. It's all about context.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, i agree. No reason to avoid cutting because you can't do cardio. I would do the same.


 And there we go the lord himself has confirmed it @TinTin10 @Tricky @Mayzini @JohhnyCcase closed in favour of the dnp users LOL


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Yes. But you won't die from not doing it on a stack like that. Unless you sit inside a sauna for an hour


 Yeah, i wouldn't call it "unsafe" to not do cardio. As long as you aren't running that stack for 6 months to a year, you will be fine.


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, i wouldn't call it "unsafe" to not do cardio. As long as you aren't running that stack for 6 months to a year, you will be fine.


 As in , the stack itself you said you wouldnt call 'safe or healthy' ...but not doing cardio does nothing to increase that danger?


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> As in , the stack itself you said you wouldnt call 'safe or healthy' ...but not doing cardio does nothing to increase that danger?


 Cardio would have minimal effect in minimizing the health risk of that stack.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> It's the best sign. No strength loss = minimal or zero muscle loss. It's the best way to measure muscle retention.
> 
> On a cut, when you are losing weight but not strength, you can be sure 90% of the weight loss if pure fat. When you start to lose excess amounts of strength, you know you need to go back to the drawing board and make some adjustments ( increase calories/decrease volume/etc)


 Thanks for your information. Would you consider a clen run after dropping dnp and how soon after?


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Thanks for your information. Would you consider a clen run after dropping dnp and how soon after?


 It's a good way to bridge if you still have fat to lose but need a break from DNP. You can run it right after.


----------



## Mayzini

Someone has some humble pie eating to do .... that's all I am saying


----------



## Tricky

Tom-Nbk said:


> Thank you @Tricky @TinTin10
> 
> I did say not the most sensible idea but cardio is NOT needed


 I know it's not, my 29lbs down is proof of that. Deficit with dnp and job is a good one.


----------



## Tricky

TinTin10 said:


> As in , the stack itself you said you wouldnt call 'safe or healthy' ...but not doing cardio does nothing to increase that danger?


 And that my friend is a wrap


----------



## Tom-Nbk

Tricky said:


> I know it's not, my 29lbs down is proof of that. Deficit with dnp and job is a good one.


 Wasn't aimed at you was proving our friend incorrect


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, main goal is to retain 90-100% strength on your cut. Usually, the pressing movements get hit the hardest (bench press/shoulder press). High volume is not needed, intensity should remain high though.


 Just to let you know my deadlift remains unchanged but I am a stone lighter from DNP run guess this shows overall strength and muscle unaffected

Pulled a 230kg deadlift tonight no issue exactly same as before the run


----------



## TinTin10

Thanks for the input @ElChapo.........can I just say I think what you're doing here is top notch mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Just to let you know my deadlift remains unchanged but I am a stone lighter from DNP run guess this shows overall strength and muscle unaffected
> 
> Pulled a 230kg deadlift tonight no issue exactly same as before the run


 I would call that a damn good cut then.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> Thanks for the input @ElChapo.........can I just say I think what you're doing here is top notch mate.


 Appreciate it brother, glad to help.


----------



## TinTin10

Tricky said:


> And that my friend is a wrap





Mayzini said:


> Someone has some humble pie eating to do .... that's all I am saying


 Stack is dangerous, as confirmed by Chapo. Just not made worse by lack of cardio. If you think that is a some sort of victory then knock yourselves out.

Slow and steady wins the race.

Good luck to everyone on their journeys.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> Stack is dangerous, as confirmed by Chapo. Just not made worse by lack of cardio. If you think that is a some sort of victory then knock yourselves out.
> 
> Slow and steady wins the race.
> 
> Good luck to everyone on their journeys.


 I wouldn't call it "dangerous" per say. Just saying it's not exactly "healthy".


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't call it "dangerous" per say. Just saying it's not exactly "healthy".


 Would you recommend it as an optimum method for fat loss?


----------



## DLTBB

TinTin10 said:


> Would you recommend it as an optimum method for fat loss?


 It depends how you're defining optimal.

If you mean losing fat as quickly as possible then it's going to involve running the most fat-burning drugs you can and eating as little food as possible, but obviously there's a big risk of burning out very quickly and feeling like crap.

If you value your day to day life and want to avoid feeling like crap then you're probably going to want to reduce your calories over time and slowly introduce drugs and taper your doses up to a point where you're getting the benefits without getting knocked for six by the side effects.

Optimal for me = effective without disrupting my life day to day.

Optimal for a fat guy who wants to lose 20lbs before going away in 6 weeks = get the weight off quickly with little regard for sides.


----------



## ElChapo

DLTBB said:


> It depends how you're defining optimal.
> 
> If you mean losing fat as quickly as possible then it's going to involve running the most fat-burning drugs you can and eating as little food as possible, but obviously there's a big risk of burning out very quickly and feeling like crap.
> 
> If you value your day to day life and want to avoid feeling like crap then you're probably going to want to reduce your calories over time and slowly introduce drugs and taper your doses up to a point where you're getting the benefits without getting knocked for six by the side effects.
> 
> Optimal for me = effective without disrupting my life day to day.
> 
> Optimal for a fat guy who wants to lose 20lbs before going away in 6 weeks = get the weight off quickly with little regard for sides.


 Exactly, *context* is the key word. What your goals are, time frame, and priorities, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> Would you recommend it as an optimum method for fat loss?


 As @DLTBB stated above, "optimal" will vary from person to person.


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

My next blast is going to be Test E, Deca and winny. Still cutting atm and waiting for Body fat to get to around 10% before i start the blast.

Looking at gaining slow lean mass, at around 0.5lb per week, obviously diet is key but was after your advice on how much test and deca to start blast with.

Im currently cruising on 300mg test E per week with this cut.

Stats are currently 186lb, roughly 14% body fat, height is 5'10". Only used Deca once before on cycle.


----------



## Tricky

TinTin10 said:


> Stack is dangerous, as confirmed by Chapo. Just not made worse by lack of cardio. If you think that is a some sort of victory then knock yourselves out.
> 
> Slow and steady wins the race.
> 
> Good luck to everyone on their journeys.


 Not dangerous at all with proper research and knowledge about the drugs your taking and how to run them


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo

Got a couple of questions regarding T3. I often hear that T3 is catabolic and that it causes muscle flatness, can you expand on this please.

Is it touted as catabolic as consequence of pushing you further into a calorie deficit or is there a direct biological pathway that causes catabolism.

Same question relating to the muscle flatness i guess.

Thanks again for all your time


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo Syntherol contains silica. Is it silica aka Silicon dioxide or silicum ?

I dont think that kind of ingredient is healthy, right ?


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> My next blast is going to be Test E, Deca and winny. Still cutting atm and waiting for Body fat to get to around 10% before i start the blast.
> 
> Looking at gaining slow lean mass, at around 0.5lb per week, obviously diet is key but was after your advice on how much test and deca to start blast with.
> 
> Im currently cruising on 300mg test E per week with this cut.
> 
> Stats are currently 186lb, roughly 14% body fat, height is 5'10". Only used Deca once before on cycle.


 Minimum 600/600 mg of each. What's your prior cycling experience. The dose you need will come down to experience level with training, muscle development and cycles, as well as your genetic sensitivity to AAS. Some guys really need less and more depending on their genetics.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Got a couple of questions regarding T3. I often hear that T3 is catabolic and that it causes muscle flatness, can you expand on this please.
> 
> Is it touted as catabolic as consequence of pushing you further into a calorie deficit or is there a direct biological pathway that causes catabolism.
> 
> Same question relating to the muscle flatness i guess.
> 
> Thanks again for all your time


 It increases protein synthesis AND breakdown. Past a certain point, the breakdown rate overcomes the synthesis.

It makes you look flat because it increases glycogen metabolism/turnover the muscle. You increase carbs to compensate for this, T3 is not a very effective fat burner on it's own and it's best use is to prevent the metabolic slowdown from chronic caloric deficit.

It is not that catabolic until you start going into the +100 mcg territory, and even then with AAS and diet you should not lose muscle. High T3 can decrease strength and deplete glycogen fast, which will make you look and feel like you are losing muscle. I typically recommend 50-75 mcg for cutting, stacked with another fat burner.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo Syntherol contains silica. Is it silica aka Silicon dioxide or silicum ?
> 
> I dont think that kind of ingredient is healthy, right ?


 Nothing we are doing here is "healthy" haha


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo all set for starting Winni cycle - have pharmacom winni and Pharma grade UDCA.

I think ill dip my toes and start with 20 - 30mg in the first week then maybe 50mg starting week 2 or 3.

Will be running this alongside Test E - I know Winni is not really considered a bulking drug however in a 500kcal surplus, will it help with adding LBM in comparison to test e only? dbol and anadrol are the go to mass building oral AAS however i am not interested in a stone of water gain in a few weeks!

Also the only side i am worried about is dry joints - If this is experienced is it usually best to cease using the drug to prevent any long term damage or potential injury?

Reading this thread i see that you dont suffer with this issue an that you are not "prone", is that to say that it does not dry your joints at all or just not enough for you to experience issues?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo all set for starting Winni cycle - have pharmacom winni and Pharma grade UDCA.
> 
> I think ill dip my toes and start with 20 - 30mg in the first week then maybe 50mg starting week 2 or 3.
> 
> Will be running this alongside Test E - I know Winni is not really considered a bulking drug however in a 500kcal surplus, will it help with adding LBM in comparison to test e only? dbol and anadrol are the go to mass building oral AAS however i am not interested in a stone of water gain in a few weeks!
> 
> Also the only side i am worried about is dry joints - If this is experienced is it usually best to cease using the drug to prevent any long term damage or potential injury?
> 
> Reading this thread i see that you dont suffer with this issue an that you are not "prone", is that to say that it does not dry your joints at all or just not enough for you to experience issues?


 Winstrol is a fantastic bulking drug, just because you don't blow up like a fat puffer fish, doesn't mean you aren't getting quality muscle and strength added on. Winstrol is a better strength and tissue builder than dbol, period.

I can't tell you if you will get any joint side effects, you will have to run it and see. You may have a certain threshold dosage where you start to get sides, so you can lower your dose if you run into issues or discontinue the drug. The choice is yours.

I get zero joints issues from winstrol, i have gotten stiff neck muscles before, otherwise, that's my only side. Most people who love winstrol don't experience the sides, and you cannot discount the placebo effects some hypochondriac type guys tend to get. When you expect to feel psycho on tren or joint paint on winstrol, you know the rest.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is a fantastic bulking drug, just because you don't blow up like a fat puffer fish, doesn't mean you aren't getting quality muscle and strength added on. Winstrol is a better strength and tissue builder than dbol, period.
> 
> I can't tell you if you will get any joint side effects, you will have to run it and see. You may have a certain threshold dosage where you start to get sides, so you can lower your dose if you run into issues or discontinue the drug. The choice is yours.
> 
> I get zero joints issues from winstrol, i have gotten stiff neck muscles before, otherwise, that's my only side. Most people who love winstrol don't experience the sides, and you cannot discount the placebo effects some hypochondriac type guys tend to get. When you expect to feel psycho on tren or joint paint on winstrol, you know the rest.


 great im going to start low - do you know typically when one would start to experience dry joint issues on winni? is it something that will not start within the fist week but instead progressively make itself present 2 - 3 weeks in to the cycle?

I guess what i am trying to say is that i could start on a low dose and then up it but actually convince myself i am not affected but in actual fact not given enough time to see.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> great im going to start low - do you know typically when one would start to experience dry joint issues on winni? is it something that will not start within the fist week but instead progressively make itself present 2 - 3 weeks in to the cycle?
> 
> I guess what i am trying to say is that i could start on a low dose and then up it but actually convince myself i am not affected but in actual fact not given enough time to see.


 2-4 weeks in for sides typically.

You can start at 25-30 mg, this is still a dose that can provide results. More of an athlete/performance/recovery dosage though, +50 mg is where you wanna be for building lean tissue.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

What sort of dosing do you do with clen?


----------



## aLadNamedAsh

@ElChapo

Always wondered what people mean by drugs working in synergy together and what effects does one get from combining synergistic compounds besides the individual effects.

Like clen+t3, dbol+adrol. What else acts in synergy when combined.

In a way doesn't everything act in synergy.. as your adding more of something so you'd get more effects?

the only basic understanding I know of using winny to increase free test iirc.


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> What sort of dosing do you do with clen?


 40-140 mcg daily depending on sensitivity, experience, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

aLadNamedAsh said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Always wondered what people mean by drugs working in synergy together and what effects does one get from combining synergistic compounds besides the individual effects.
> 
> Like clen+t3, dbol+adrol. What else acts in synergy when combined.
> 
> In a way doesn't everything act in synergy.. as your adding more of something so you'd get more effects?
> 
> the only basic understanding I know of using winny to increase free test iirc.


 Because there is more than one pathway to get an effect you desire, or one compound can address the weakness of another.

For example, DNP is a fantastic fat burner, but people get cravings and lethargy. Adding ephedrine will suppress appetite, further increase fat loss and increase energy/motivation/training intensity while using DNP. This is a perfect example of "synergy".


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> 40-140 mcg daily depending on sensitivity, experience, etc.


 First-time user after DNP!


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> First-time user after DNP!


 What's your tolerance to stims? There's high tolerance, average, and sensitive. Comes down to genetics and experience with use. Your starting dose will be based off this, if you are stim junkie/high tolerance type, you can start at 100 mcg. Other wise, you should start at 40-60 mcg and taper up.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

ElChapo said:


> What's your tolerance to stims? There's high tolerance, average, and sensitive. Comes down to genetics and experience with use. Your starting dose will be based off this, if you are stim junkie/high tolerance type, you can start at 100 mcg. Other wise, you should start at 40-60 mcg and taper up.


 Pretty good with caffeine etc!


----------



## ElChapo

Tom-Nbk said:


> Pretty good with caffeine etc!


 You can go for 80-100 mcg then, worst case scenario, you feel some anxiety/shakes, you discontinue or lower the dose and you're good to go.


----------



## Mayzini

Tom-Nbk said:


> Pretty good with caffeine etc!


 hi mate, your a similar build to me (not really a gauge I know), I tapered up from 20mg to 60mg pretty quick, and think I will level out around 80mg. I didnt feel to much other than the shakes ! lol had to make a note to myself to make sure I didn my pinning pre clen dose as otherwise it was taking my life in my own hands !! lol bent the needle in me on one try ! I found the shakes came in for the first couple of days each taper up and then subside. note sure I would like to jump straight in at 80-100mg especially if you deal with the public in your work.


----------



## Tom-Nbk

Mayzini said:


> hi mate, your a similar build to me (not really a gauge I know), I tapered up from 20mg to 60mg pretty quick, and think I will level out around 80mg. I didnt feel to much other than the shakes ! lol had to make a note to myself to make sure I didn my pinning pre clen dose as otherwise it was taking my life in my own hands !! lol bent the needle in me on one try ! I found the shakes came in for the first couple of days each taper up and then subside. note sure I would like to jump straight in at 80-100mg especially if you deal with the public in your work.


 Okay dude noted


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> hi mate, your a similar build to me (not really a gauge I know), I tapered up from 20mg to 60mg pretty quick, and think I will level out around 80mg. I didnt feel to much other than the shakes ! lol had to make a note to myself to make sure I didn my pinning pre clen dose as otherwise it was taking my life in my own hands !! lol bent the needle in me on one try ! I found the shakes came in for the first couple of days each taper up and then subside. note sure I would like to jump straight in at 80-100mg especially if you deal with the public in your work.


 Build will have minimal effect on tolerance. SNPs that affect liver enzymes that breakdown drugs, brain enzymes that breakdown adrenaline, etc are what will dictate 90% your response to a drug. Weight will have a minimal effect, dosages calculate by weight don't tend to vary much unless you are comparing a 90 lbs female to a 250 lbs male.


----------



## Jordan08

What do you think?


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo my creatinine (not CK) is usually 110 umol/L however sometimes is elevated to 120umol/L (GFR is usually 60 - 75). GFR should ideally be around 90 or higher?

I know that heavy lifting and high protein diet can cause creatinine to elevate beyond otherwise normal levels however is there anything i need to worry about? is it typical for people who lift heavy regularly and consume a high protein diet to have their creatinine results in around my typical level?


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> Minimum 600/600 mg of each. What's your prior cycling experience. The dose you need will come down to experience level with training, muscle development and cycles, as well as your genetic sensitivity to AAS. Some guys really need less and more depending on their genetics.


 I've done 6 cycles over the last 3 years. been training for around 5 years.

1. Test E 500mg per week. 12 weeks

2. sust 500mg per week for 12 weeks, Dbol Kicker for 4 weeks

3. Test E 750mg, Mast E 600mg, Tren E 400mg per week 12 weeks

4. sust 500mg, deca 500mg, per week, 12 weeks, anadrol 50mg per day.

5. Test E 500mg, mast E 600mg, 14 weeks, winny 50mg per day for 6 weeks.

6. Test E 600mg, EQ 500mg, per week, superdrol 20mg per day 4 weeks.

bit of a mish mash of cycles, tren messed my head up so not doing that again, my diet hasnt always been the best on a few of those cycles, dirty bulked and eaten far too much on them gaining a fair bit of fat.

So starting from a lower body fat than previous, when i get to 10% im determined to slowly lean bulk, Using Test E, Deca and winstrol.

So just after your opinion on how much Test and deca to use for my lean bulk cycle in a few weeks time.


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> Build will have minimal effect on tolerance. SNPs that affect liver enzymes that breakdown drugs, brain enzymes that breakdown adrenaline, etc are what will dictate 90% your response to a drug. Weight will have a minimal effect, dosages calculate by weight don't tend to vary much unless you are comparing a 90 lbs female to a 250 lbs male.


 Interesting always thought that might be the case as I can be sensitive to some stimulants yet am a pretty big guy thanks for clearing that up informative as ever cheers


----------



## Tricky

Tom-Nbk said:


> Pretty good with caffeine etc!


 Just build up and see. I'm on 120mcg and hardly notice a thing only slight hand shakes when writing but after 3 days it steadys out and I don't notice anything. I build up from 40mcg day one


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Was reading how dnp works and it seems that we can have best sinergy with Yohimbine....

1) Do you think that DNP can be useful to go from 10% bf to 6%bf

2) What do you think about that protocol fatburning protocol?

2w 50mcg T3+ 200mg DNP+ taper to 20mg Yohimbine HCL+ taper Clen

2w 50mcg T3+ ECA

Repeat

How can be best adjusted?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo my creatinine (not CK) is usually 110 umol/L however sometimes is elevated to 120umol/L (GFR is usually 60 - 75). GFR should ideally be around 90 or higher?
> 
> I know that heavy lifting and high protein diet can cause creatinine to elevate beyond otherwise normal levels however is there anything i need to worry about? is it typical for people who lift heavy regularly and consume a high protein diet to have their creatinine results in around my typical level?


 Yeah, that's normal. As long as GFR is over 60, you are good.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What do you think?
> View attachment 143741


 Yeah, "IGF-1 is the number "cancer producing hormone"" = Retard logic.

IGF-1 can theoretically encourage tumour growth once the cancer is there, but it will NOT cause or increase the risk of cancer. That's retarded.

When you are young, your IGF-1 levels are highest, why isn't every teenager walking around with a tumour on their forehead? Because IGF-1 doesn't cause cancer. IGF-1 is essential for optimal health, and is mechanism behind the benefits of growth hormone. IGF-1 keeps you young, healthy, and strong.

That picture is not science, it's sensationalist bullshit.

Btw, IGF is not a hormone, it's a peptide hormone.

Cancer is caused by mutations in DNA where the apoptosis doesn't happen in the cell and it doesn't self-destruct but keeps growing and spreading. These mutations are more likely to happen when cells are rapidly dividing and or regenerating ( skin exposed to UV rays/Smoke exposure to lungs, hot liquids/alcohol exposure to esophagus/throat) or when cells are exposed to carcinogens. It's a bit more complicated, but it's definitely not as simple as "high igf-1 = you get cancer" which is ridiculous and stupid.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> I've done 6 cycles over the last 3 years. been training for around 5 years.
> 
> 1. Test E 500mg per week. 12 weeks
> 
> 2. sust 500mg per week for 12 weeks, Dbol Kicker for 4 weeks
> 
> 3. Test E 750mg, Mast E 600mg, Tren E 400mg per week 12 weeks
> 
> 4. sust 500mg, deca 500mg, per week, 12 weeks, anadrol 50mg per day.
> 
> 5. Test E 500mg, mast E 600mg, 14 weeks, winny 50mg per day for 6 weeks.
> 
> 6. Test E 600mg, EQ 500mg, per week, superdrol 20mg per day 4 weeks.
> 
> bit of a mish mash of cycles, tren messed my head up so not doing that again, my diet hasnt always been the best on a few of those cycles, dirty bulked and eaten far too much on them gaining a fair bit of fat.
> 
> So starting from a lower body fat than previous, when i get to 10% im determined to slowly lean bulk, Using Test E, Deca and winstrol.
> 
> So just after your opinion on how much Test and deca to use for my lean bulk cycle in a few weeks time.


 600/600 mg test/deca + 350 mg winstrol per week. Aim for .5 lbs of weight gain per week, focus on increase strength in ALL your movements. Run cycle for minimum 12 weeks or until your reach 15-18% body fat, then cut back down to 10% maintain or repeat until desire physique/strength goals are achieved.

I like the look of this cycle and expect results to be very good if you stick to those basic principles.


----------



## Pancake'

Interesting stuff. sorry to ask something so vague, but do you feel AAS, and drugs like Insulin and peptides produce a significant increase in risks of types of cancers? in particular AAS. can a relatively healthy individual, expect a greatly increased chance of developing cancers from experimenting with AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> Interesting always thought that might be the case as I can be sensitive to some stimulants yet am a pretty big guy thanks for clearing that up informative as ever cheers


 CYP1A2 is the liver enzyme in question. Depending on genetics, some people have high or low activity of this enzyme. It metabolizes/breaks down caffeine. Those with high activity will break it down much faster than normal, so they need more caffeine to get any effect.

COMT enzyme in the brain breaks down adrenaline, one of the major players in effects and side effects of caffeine. If you have high activity CYP1A2 in the liver, and high activity COMT in the brain, you will have a very high natural tolerance for stimulants, and that's before you build up the tolerance from chronic use.

This is why i say genetics are so important. They affect every aspect of our lives, from personality, drug response, athleticism and intelligence.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Interesting stuff. sorry to ask something so vague, but do you feel AAS, and drugs like Insulin and peptides produce a significant increase in risks of types of cancers? in particular AAS. can a relatively healthy individual, expect a greatly increased chance of developing cancers from experimenting with AAS.


 Not particularly, high dose AAS have a low risk of causing liver tumours and the androgens could theoretically increase the risk of prostate hypertrophy/cancer if one is susceptible. (although some studies have shown high dose testosterone can actually kill prostate cancer).

Generally, even GH will not increase the risk of cancer, but if you have cancer or a tumour and you throw in GH, IGF-1 increase growth of all tissues, good and bad.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Was reading how dnp works and it seems that we can have best sinergy with Yohimbine....
> 
> 1) Do you think that DNP can be useful to go from 10% bf to 6%bf
> 
> 2) What do you think about that protocol fatburning protocol?
> 
> 2w 50mcg T3+ 200mg DNP+ taper to 20mg Yohimbine HCL+ taper Clen
> 
> 2w 50mcg T3+ ECA
> 
> Repeat
> 
> How can be best adjusted?


 That's a good protocol. I would run ECA with the first 2 weeks, and switch to the clen. The appetite suppression from EC compliments DNP nicely.

I would run the DNP a full 4 weeks with ECA. then take a 2 weeks break running T3+clen, then back to DNP for 4 weeks until desired bodyfat level is reached. Other wise, that's a nice stack. Well done

DNP works well at any bodyfat percentage.


----------



## Pancake'

Knowing what you know now, what things would you of done differently in regards of bodybuilding/experimenting with peds.


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> 600/600 mg test/deca + 350 mg winstrol per week. Aim for .5 lbs of weight gain per week, focus on increase strength in ALL your movements. Run cycle for minimum 12 weeks or until your reach 15-18% body fat, then cut back down to 10% maintain or repeat until desire physique/strength goals are achieved.
> 
> I like the look of this cycle and expect results to be very good if you stick to those basic principles.


 Brilliant, thanks for that


----------



## 66983

@ElChapo

What would be the maximum amount of separate oral compounds run at the same time if using TUDCA & NAC?

I.e : winny at 50mcg day, sdrol 10mcg day, proviron 50mcg day.

Would this be too much?


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Not particularly, high dose AAS have a low risk of causing liver tumours and the androgens could theoretically increase the risk of prostate hypertrophy/cancer if one is susceptible. (although some studies have shown high dose testosterone can actually kill prostate cancer).
> 
> Generally, even GH will not increase the risk of cancer, but if you have cancer or a tumour and you throw in GH, IGF-1 increase growth of all tissues, good and bad.


 Funnily enough I've got a load of GH which a friend gave me and for this reason I haven't used it and doubt I will do in the future.

In 5 months time I'll be seeing the oncologist for hopefully the last time as it will be 5 years since I had a tumor removed from my tracea.

Fingers crossed


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Sparkey said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What would be the maximum amount of separate oral compounds run at the same time if using TUDCA & NAC?
> 
> I.e : winny at 50mcg day, sdrol 10mcg day, proviron 50mcg day.
> 
> Would this be too much?


 @ElChapo I'm in on this also...

Currently running test/tren/mast and just added 30mg of Winny for the last 9 weeks of contest prep, I have var and SD on hand and been contemplating stacking one (or both) with the Winny, I won't be building new tissue at this point as kcals will be in a deficit, so what would be a conservative dose for aesthetics purposes (full/hard/dry/vasc)

Edited: will also be using 1000 NAC and 200 tudca for the duration.


----------



## ElChapo

Sparkey said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What would be the maximum amount of separate oral compounds run at the same time if using TUDCA & NAC?
> 
> I.e : winny at 50mcg day, sdrol 10mcg day, proviron 50mcg day.
> 
> Would this be too much?


 Mixing orals causes zero issues. You need to take into account the total mg of 17-alkylated AAS. You can take 10 orals as long as the combined dosages are reasonable.

There is no inherent, synergistic toxicity from mixing orals, period.

That stack is fine


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> @ElChapo I'm in on this also...
> 
> Currently running test/tren/mast and just added 30mg of Winny for the last 9 weeks of contest prep, I have var and SD on hand and been contemplating stacking one (or both) with the Winny, I won't be building new tissue at this point as kcals will be in a deficit, so what would be a conservative dose for aesthetics purposes (full/hard/dry/vasc)
> 
> Edited: will also be using 1000 NAC and 200 tudca for the duration.


 50-100 var, 10-20 mg sdrol.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo

What do you think about pre and post workout meal?

In case, what are your ideal macro nutrient for pre and post?


----------



## Chelsea

@ElChapo

For my next cycle i was thinking of using NPP instead of regular Nandrolone (long ester), would you say there would be much difference or any at all if i were to use:

600mg NPP

or

600mg Nandrolone Decanoate

Apart from NPP kicking in quicker obviously. I know I will get slightly more drug with NPP as the ester weight is less.

Also i would be jabbing 200mg eod for NPP and Nandrolone Decanoate i would jab 1ml twice per week (Mon/Thurs).

What would be your preference and why?


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about pre and post workout meal?
> 
> In case, what are your ideal macro nutrient for pre and post?


 Pre-workout, a light meal with carbs/protein.

Post-workout, high glycemic, carb heavy meal with at least 20-40 grams of protein. Your muscles are primed to absorb nutrients, the carbs will increase insulin secretion. My favorite is cereal with protein powder. 40 grams of protein causes the highest increase in protein synthesis. This does NOT mean it's maximum that you "can use" at once.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Pre-workout, a light meal with carbs/protein.
> 
> Post-workout, high glycemic, carb heavy meal with at least 20-40 grams of protein. Your muscles are primed to absorb nutrients, the carbs will increase insulin secretion. My favorite is cereal with protein powder. 40 grams of protein causes the highest increase in protein synthesis. This does NOT mean it's maximum that you "can use" at once.


 How many carbs in Pre and Post?


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> For my next cycle i was thinking of using NPP instead of regular Nandrolone (long ester), would you say there would be much difference or any at all if i were to use:
> 
> 600mg NPP
> 
> or
> 
> 600mg Nandrolone Decanoate
> 
> Apart from NPP kicking in quicker obviously. I know I will get slightly more drug with NPP as the ester weight is less.
> 
> Also i would be jabbing 200mg eod for NPP and Nandrolone Decanoate i would jab 1ml twice per week (Mon/Thurs).
> 
> What would be your preference and why?


 NPP will kick in and clear much faster. You would pin x 2-3 per week. You get more hormone per MG (decanoate is a heavy ester that takes up a lot of weight)

You can do DECA once per week, NPP EOD is not needed, you would be fine doing x 2 per or MWF.

It's up to you, i'm impatient and don't like waiting for long esters to kick in AND i'm a slow responder (takes me 6 weeks for long esters to kick in). I only like slow esters for crusing, but it's a preference thing. I pin with insulin needles, so frequency is not an issue. I would use NPP. Anecdotally, people claim they get less water from NPP.

I also prefer short esters when it's your first time using a compound, because you can discontinue use or lower the dose if you run into any issues. It's all about preference.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> How many carbs in Pre and Post?


 No specific number, don't sweat the small stuff. Just make sure you hit calorie goals for the day (surplus or deficit) and get enough protein. Meal timing is not that important.

Get some carbs and protein pre-post/workout, don't get OCD over numbers.


----------



## Filthee

Hey mate - given unusual circumstances (well not so unusual, i dropped and broke 2 vials of Primo). I'm wondering how to structure my last 6 weeks of my cycle (was on 600mg Primo/ 250mg test). I picked up a couple vials of tren ace (never used before).

Was thinking of reducing the (remaining) primo dosage and adding in some low tren for the next 6 weeks: 400mg Primo, 250mg Test, 175mg Tren.

Reason for the low tren is because it'll be my first use and because I am susceptible to MBP (I'm demoing RU58841 + Nizoral 2% at the same time here - I know I'm playing with fire but the curiosity took over).

Should I change the dosages? Was thinking stick with 25mg of tren ace ED for 2 weeks and if I'm not shedding or experiencing sides, up it to 50mg?


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

Your view on superdrol for 20mg blast for 3 weeks for keepable Lbm? I know it's one of th harshest on liver and lipids however I would after run test e only and get both markers back to baseline before doing any 19nors or orals their after.

Bear in mind I blast and cruise so no pct following will be required.


----------



## 18650

Is there a concrete answer to what causes extreme lower back pumps when using certain orals? I've personally experienced it when running stanozolol in the past, it would never stop me using the drug however, nothing makes me as strong, not even tren, it's amazing stuff.

Thanks ElChapo.


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

For people who get their partners pregnant while on cycles (say test/tren/mast/orals) is there any science relating to what the sex of the baby is more likely to be. Or is it purely coincidence that a lot of bodybuilders seem to father girls?


----------



## 31205

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> For people who get their partners pregnant while on cycles (say test/tren/mast/orals) is there any science relating to what the sex of the baby is more likely to be. Or is it purely coincidence that a lot of bodybuilders seem to father girls?


 I gathered a boy on test and tren. An angry boy as well he is.


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> Hey mate - given unusual circumstances (well not so unusual, i dropped and broke 2 vials of Primo). I'm wondering how to structure my last 6 weeks of my cycle (was on 600mg Primo/ 250mg test). I picked up a couple vials of tren ace (never used before).
> 
> Was thinking of reducing the (remaining) primo dosage and adding in some low tren for the next 6 weeks: 400mg Primo, 250mg Test, 175mg Tren.
> 
> Reason for the low tren is because it'll be my first use and because I am susceptible to MBP (I'm demoing RU58841 + Nizoral 2% at the same time here - I know I'm playing with fire but the curiosity took over).
> 
> Should I change the dosages? Was thinking stick with 25mg of tren ace ED for 2 weeks and if I'm not shedding or experiencing sides, up it to 50mg?


 I'd run at 200-300 mg, you would get an effect from that. What is the goal of this cycle? were you bulking or are you cutting?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Your view on superdrol for 20mg blast for 3 weeks for keepable Lbm? I know it's one of th harshest on liver and lipids however I would after run test e only and get both markers back to baseline before doing any 19nors or orals their after.
> 
> Bear in mind I blast and cruise so no pct following will be required.


 You are not going to build a lot of muscle in 3 weeks. I would extend to minimum 8 weeks. Run 250 mg tudca or udca with it. Focus on building up your strength and then keeping it post cycle. This will be the best way to maintain your gains.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Is there a concrete answer to what causes extreme lower back pumps when using certain orals? I've personally experienced it when running stanozolol in the past, it would never stop me using the drug however, nothing makes me as strong, not even tren, it's amazing stuff.
> 
> Thanks ElChapo.


 Just a regular pump, but your lower back is constantly working to keep your posture up so it gets pumped more easily when you're on AAS.

The best solution is to strengthen your abdominal muscles by correctly using the valsalva in the compounds lifts and all your exercises.

This will train you to use your abdominals more, and less back. Most people's backs work too hard, and that's why they have chronic back issues. A strong rectus abdominus will take the load off the back.

I agree, stanozolol is up there with tren in terms of potency and versatility. It's underrated because people narrow mindedly think of it as a "cutting/cosmetic" androgen.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> For people who get their partners pregnant while on cycles (say test/tren/mast/orals) is there any science relating to what the sex of the baby is more likely to be. Or is it purely coincidence that a lot of bodybuilders seem to father girls?


 It's bullshit.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> Just a regular pump, but your lower back is constantly working to keep your posture up so it gets pumped more easily when you're on AAS.
> 
> The best solution is to strengthen your abdominal muscles by correctly using the valsalva in the compounds lifts and all your exercises.
> 
> This will train you to use your abdominals more, and less back. Most people's backs work too hard, and that's why they have chronic back issues. A strong rectus abdominus will take the load off the back.
> 
> I agree, stanozolol is up there with tren in terms of potency and versatility. It's underrated because people narrow mindedly think of it as a "cutting/cosmetic" androgen.


 Thank you so much once again brother.


----------



## Filthee

ElChapo said:


> I'd run at 200-300 mg, you would get an effect from that. What is the goal of this cycle? were you bulking or are you cutting?


 Cutting. Currently running low carb at the moment.


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> Cutting. Currently running low carb at the moment.


 There's not much you're gonna really get then. For cutting, you just need some AAS for muscle retention. Certain compounds will give a freakier look, but that goes away when you stop.


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> 600/600 mg test/deca + 350 mg winstrol per week. Aim for .5 lbs of weight gain per week, focus on increase strength in ALL your movements. Run cycle for minimum 12 weeks or until your reach 15-18% body fat, then cut back down to 10% maintain or repeat until desire physique/strength goals are achieved.
> 
> I like the look of this cycle and expect results to be very good if you stick to those basic principles.


 @ElChapo sorry if this is a daft question but if i was to use npp instead of deca would i use the same mg/pw? i know its just the ester that is different but thought i would ask.

Also i'm swapping EC for clen very soon, what would you use to put hunger at bay? or should i just add clen to the EC? I've got sib but it doesnt really do much for me to be honest.

thanks


----------



## gt4_ade

@ElChapo been doing some reasearch on GDA's lately i.understand what they are meant to do but by what mechanism are they doing it, are they using glut4 to lower blood sugar levels?


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> I know you've touched on the subject of that most supplements are bull s**t or snake oil
> 
> But what are your thoughts on EAA'S, BCCA'S , glutamine & beta - alanine ?


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo sorry if this is a daft question but if i was to use npp instead of deca would i use the same mg/pw? i know its just the ester that is different but thought i would ask.
> 
> Also i'm swapping EC for clen very soon, what would you use to put hunger at bay? or should i just add clen to the EC? I've got sib but it doesnt really do much for me to be honest.
> 
> thanks


 Same mg

Ephedrine 20 mg x 1-3 daily stacked with 200-400 mg caffeine per dose. I would not stack with clenbuterol unless you have a high tolerance for stimulants AND experience with both compounds solo.


----------



## iambazza

@ElChapo

Hi mate,

I have been doing some reading on DHT and testosterone re: binding affinity and from the literature I saw that DHT binds to the AR for three times as long as Test. Does this means that if I was to make DHT suspension (in oil) that it'd have a half-life/be active for three times as long as testosterone suspension?

Cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

gt4_ade said:


> @ElChapo been doing some reasearch on GDA's lately i.understand what they are meant to do but by what mechanism are they doing it, are they using glut4 to lower blood sugar levels?


 s**t.

Just take 500-1000 mg pharma metformin. No herbal supp is going to even come close to enhancing insulin sensitivity and you will pay a lot less.


----------



## ElChapo

EAA - garbage

BCAA- okay if your diet is low in protein, you have bad kidneys, you train fasted, and may help prevent intra and post workout fatigue. Otherwise, minimally useful.

Glutamine- useless

Beta-alanine-Alright, might give you an extra 1-2 reps and may improve cardiovascular-muscle endurance. Not super effective either.


----------



## ElChapo

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate,
> 
> I have been doing some reading on DHT and testosterone re: binding affinity and from the literature I saw that DHT binds to the AR for three times as long as Test. Does this means that if I was to make DHT suspension (in oil) that it'd have a half-life/be active for three times as long as testosterone suspension?
> 
> Cheers!


 Nope


----------



## gt4_ade

ElChapo said:


> s**t.
> 
> Just take 500-1000 mg pharma metformin. No herbal supp is going to even come close to enhancing insulin sensitivity and you will pay a lot less.


 So what would be your protocol 500mg metformin per 50g carb for eg?


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> Cutting. Currently running low carb at the moment.


 At most, the effect would be cosmetic. Once you have the baseline dose to perserve muscle mass, at best, anything else will give you a better/freakier look, which will go away once you stop/end your cut.


----------



## ElChapo

gt4_ade said:


> So what would be your protocol 500mg metformin per 50g carb for eg?


 Nothing like that, just take 500-1000 mg once daily.


----------



## gt4_ade

ElChapo said:


> Nothing like that, just take 500-1000 mg once daily.


 Ok thanks, would you need anymore than that if having a high carb day? when is the best time to take it, post workout meal?


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Hey mate.

ive got 3 weeks to lose as much BF as possible before a holiday.

My plan was 400mg tren 150mg test 50mcg t3 and 20mg superdrol, whilst running 1500-1700 calories, minimal fat protein 200g+.

Cardio 20 mins ed should put me at 1000 calories deficit

Does 6-8lbs seem doable?

The bad side of me is saying to also try, for the first time, DNP 125mg ed for 14 days.

Although I'm obviously nervous at the thought of that (I've researched a ton and seem to get it, but the more logical side to me is saying leave).

what are your thoughts? Shall I just stick with the original plan? Or alter it to incorporate DNP? What would you suggest to come in looking the best I can (I get on well with everything in the original plan btw - all used before(.

Cheers mate, appreciated


----------



## ElChapo

gt4_ade said:


> Ok thanks, would you need anymore than that if having a high carb day? when is the best time to take it, post workout meal?


 Anytime, chronic use will increase insulin sensitivity.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey mate.
> 
> ive got 3 weeks to lose as much BF as possible before a holiday.
> 
> My plan was 400mg tren 150mg test 50mcg t3 and 20mg superdrol, whilst running 1500-1700 calories, minimal fat protein 200g+.
> 
> Cardio 20 mins ed should put me at 1000 calories deficit
> 
> Does 6-8lbs seem doable?
> 
> The bad side of me is saying to also try, for the first time, DNP 125mg ed for 14 days.
> 
> Although I'm obviously nervous at the thought of that (I've researched a ton and seem to get it, but the more logical side to me is saying leave).
> 
> what are your thoughts? Shall I just stick with the original plan? Or alter it to incorporate DNP? What would you suggest to come in looking the best I can (I get on well with everything in the original plan btw - all used before(.
> 
> Cheers mate, appreciated


 250 mg DNP will greatly accelerate fat loss. I dont know about 125 mg, i guess you could try it. 250 mg is a good compromise of efficacy and safety.

If you are at 15%, you can expect to lose about 1.5 lbs fat per week without DNP, tapering down to 1.3 lbs around 13%, 1 lbs around 10% and so forth.

If you want fat loss as quickly as possible, use DNP. 6-8 lbs should take about 4-10 weeks without DNP depending on what you run, how steep your deficit is and how lean you are to begin with.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg DNP will greatly accelerate fat loss. I dont know about 125 mg, i guess you could try it. 250 mg is a good compromise of efficacy and safety.
> 
> If you are at 15%, you can expect to lose about 1.5 lbs fat per week without DNP, tapering down to 1.3 lbs around 13%, 1 lbs around 10% and so forth.
> 
> If you want fat loss as quickly as possible, use DNP. 6-8 lbs should take about 4-10 weeks without DNP depending on what you run, how steep your deficit is and how lean you are to begin with.


 Ok mate I'll have a serious think about that, cheers.

AAS wise what would you change. That whole stack + DNP seems a tad extreme for what I want I think, im not super advanced, per say.

That intiial AAS stack would be up there with my highest ever "blast", I have always used lower dosages.


----------



## iambazza

@ElChapo

Hi mate (again!),

If it was possible to deactivate the 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase enzyme, would DHT be an effective anabolic in muscle tissue and if so, how powerful would it be?

Thanks!


----------



## Sphinkter

Apologies if this is been asked before and it is such a noob question but as I've never actually asked someone as knowledgable: enanthate ester, do you pin it once or twice a week?

and ace/prop/npp EOD or ED?


----------



## Doitagain

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate (again!),
> 
> If it was possible to deactivate the 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase enzyme, would DHT be an effective anabolic in muscle tissue and if so, how powerful would it be?
> 
> Thanks!


 Drostanolone has been engineered for this.


----------



## iambazza

Doitagain said:


> Drostanolone has been engineered for this.


 Not interested in masteron otherwise I'd have not asked the question  . Thanks though.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Ok mate I'll have a serious think about that, cheers.
> 
> AAS wise what would you change. That whole stack + DNP seems a tad extreme for what I want I think, im not super advanced, per say.
> 
> That intiial AAS stack would be up there with my highest ever "blast", I have always used lower dosages.


 Depending your experience levels, 300-600 mg total AAS is more than enough for cutting. You could do 300/300 test/tren. or 150/300 test/tren. The sdrol is unnecessary .


----------



## ElChapo

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate (again!),
> 
> If it was possible to deactivate the 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase enzyme, would DHT be an effective anabolic in muscle tissue and if so, how powerful would it be?
> 
> Thanks!


 Not really, the guy above mention mast because apparently it's resistant to the enzyme deactivation in the muscle. So he's not far off.

Honestly, i don't know. You got test/tren/winstrol. You need nothing more.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> Apologies if this is been asked before and it is such a noob question but as I've never actually asked someone as knowledgable: enanthate ester, do you pin it once or twice a week?
> 
> and ace/prop/npp EOD or ED?


 Once a week unless you are a fast metabolizer on TRT. If you are cycling, once per week is more than enough. x 2 per week provides extra stability and less aromatization (irrelevant if it's not TRT).

Ace/Prop : EOD or MWF. You can do daily, but not a fan of pin cushion frequency even with insulin pins.

NPP: x 2 -3 pw


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> Once a week unless you are a fast metabolizer on TRT. If you are cycling, once per week is more than enough. x 2 per week provides extra stability and less aromatization (irrelevant if it's not TRT).
> 
> Ace/Prop : EOD or MWF. You can do daily, but not a fan of pin cushion frequency even with insulin pins.
> 
> NPP: x 2 -3 pw


 Pretty much what I though except I pinned npp EOD for the short run I done last year.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Which stacks you advice for best freakier look when cutting?

300 TestP 300 TrenA 300 MastP 350 W?

Or there are some other AAS that can make us as freak as this stack?

EQ Tren Masteron? I am just spamming names


----------



## SlinMeister

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate (again!),
> 
> If it was possible to deactivate the 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase enzyme, would DHT be an effective anabolic in muscle tissue and if so, how powerful would it be?
> 
> Thanks!


 Yes it is.... Just use 4mg Nicotine gum Ed... Chew them for lots of time.

It's useful just on Masteron.... Superdrol Winstrol etc are so powerful that this enzyme won't bother them at all..


----------



## JBlast

What do you think about running Deca only (without test) for less side effects?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Which stacks you advice for best freakier look when cutting?
> 
> 300 TestP 300 TrenA 300 MastP 350 W?
> 
> Or there are some other AAS that can make us as freak as this stack?
> 
> EQ Tren Masteron? I am just spamming names


 High tren/winstrol+low body fat.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> What do you think about running Deca only (without test) for less side effects?


 Works for some people, you can get gains but sides like libido issues, fatigue and depression are a problem for many. You know how bad you feel with low E2? This is because E2 is essential for optimal health and wellbeing, and so is DHT.

You will be making less e2 and DHN instead of DHT on a deca only cycle.

Some guys feel great and have good erections on deca only. I myself can run tren only and feel fantastic, but everyone is different. You are better off running some testosterone most of the time, but there's no reason to avoid an experiment if you are curious, go for it.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Works for some people, you can get gains but sides like libido issues, fatigue and depression are a problem for many. You know how bad you feel with low E2? This is because E2 is essential for optimal health and wellbeing, and so is DHT.
> 
> You will be making less e2 and DHN instead of DHT on a deca only cycle.
> 
> Some guys feel great and have good erections on deca only. I myself can run tren only and feel fantastic, but everyone is different. You are better off running some testosterone most of the time, but there's no reason to avoid an experiment if you are curious, go for it.


 I was cutting on 400 Primo 350 Tren 350 Mast after 3 weeks started feeling fatigued all day... Brain fog etc etc... Libido ok.

So I restart Injecting Test and felt like new again....

That told me that on a cycle like that (Deca only) maybe I won't feel that good at all.

DhT acts also as feel good hormone....

I don't really know if running high dose of Test will be a real deal... Started thinking to just go for 300-600 TestE Just for the DHT it gives and then up anabolics and add HGH + Slin.

I think that HGH + Slin will be the real deal.... Have some doubts about high test cycles....

But I read from people that HGH + high test is the real deal.... What's you experience @ElChapo?

I find all the bloat from certain aas really useless and detrimental for growth...


----------



## Jordan08

You once mentioned Vegetables are overrated. On which foods you rely on your micro nutrients?. I hate veggies myself but have to poured them down.

From Fiber point of view, i take Psyllium husk with each meal though not very keen on including veggies with each meal.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Pre-workout, a light meal with carbs/protein.
> 
> Post-workout, high glycemic, carb heavy meal with at least 20-40 grams of protein. Your muscles are primed to absorb nutrients, the carbs will increase insulin secretion. My favorite is cereal with protein powder. 40 grams of protein causes the highest increase in protein synthesis. This does NOT mean it's maximum that you "can use" at once.


 Extrapolating somewhat on this... the bro science 40g of protein per meal being maximum... rather than the maximum figure bandied about.... would it be unreasonable to use 40g of protein more regularly to effectively keep jump starting the protein synthesis response of the body and therefore almost up regulating the protein synthesis rate or does protein synthesis not start and stop that quickly?? Could this be where the 40g per meal with smaller meals come from and it got interpreted by someone as that's 'the most you can consume' and it be used??

genuine question... also is there any merit to smaller meals with split carbs as well to keep insulin spikes etc going and shuttling nutrients around the body... overall calories are king but can you use smaller meals of carbs and protein to your advantage and do they offer any such advantages over say three larger meals and a three scoop shake split into two between them so five meals a day effectively vs 8 or something similar?? Or do larger meals offer advantages by the same token??


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

not sure if this has been asked..

1. any tonics or supplements that can help with kidney function

2. having progesterone at higher end on range bad in anyway? (if everything else is in range?)

3. this is a weird one for me, lately ive been having extremely bloated lower stomach, ive checked all bases i know; hormones, sodium, electrolytes etc i thought it was an intolerance to oats, so i dropped oats and it didnt help, ive also lowered carbs down to 250g pd, and upped fats to 100g pd eating 3600 clean no cheats... also just started taking 50mg adrol, could it be this ? ive tried adrol twice before and each time never bloated that bad,,, ,, so either this is first time ive actually got legit adrol or something else is going on ?i can see my 4 upper abs perfect but lower stomach region is watery ! every where else is on my body is ripped and tight,, just not lower stomach, it feels like either water or loose skin? what else could this be?

p.s running 600mg eq, 400 mg tren, 600 mg test e, 50mg adrol ( also trying 150mcg t4 ) << thinking of dropping the adrol for winny if adrol is the problem


----------



## crawleytown

Not questions from me, but what a guy @ElChapo is for doing this! Incredible resource.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

Do you think that 2.5mg of adex should be enough to cover e2 on...

Currently into week 10 of test/tren/mast (300/300/400) also taking 60mg ralox for duration (gyno reduction) and 0.5 caber PW

ive not got any real noticeable sides of either apart from being really tired and lethargic throughout the day which could be down to Winny/eca and libido is up and down, constant morning wood. Feeling light headed when standing up (bp In range)

i know this is a quite vague question and hard to give an answer without blood work but can't help but think my ai dosing is off

also if my gyno came about from not keeping on top of e2, then I started to run ralox/nolva along side same dose ai... which started to reduce gyno, then after a few weeks gyno was increasing again would this mean that the ai would need increasing?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> not sure if this has been asked..
> 
> 1. any tonics or supplements that can help with kidney function
> 
> 2. having progesterone at higher end on range bad in anyway? (if everything else is in range?)
> 
> 3. this is a weird one for me, lately ive been having extremely bloated lower stomach, ive checked all bases i know; hormones, sodium, electrolytes etc i thought it was an intolerance to oats, so i dropped oats and it didnt help, ive also lowered carbs down to 250g pd, and upped fats to 100g pd eating 3600 clean no cheats... also just started taking 50mg adrol, could it be this ? ive tried adrol twice before and each time never bloated that bad,,, ,, so either this is first time ive actually got legit adrol or something else is going on ?i can see my 4 upper abs perfect but lower stomach region is watery ! every where else is on my body is ripped and tight,, just not lower stomach, it feels like either water or loose skin? what else could this be?
> 
> p.s running 600mg eq, 400 mg tren, 600 mg test e, 50mg adrol ( also trying 150mcg t4 ) << thinking of dropping the adrol for winny if adrol is the problem


 1. No

2. No

3. What is your E2 control? this can cause bad bloat very easily. The other possibility is an allergy to something you are eating. Sometimes the only symptom of a food allergy is bloating. Winstrol is will suck water out of you, it's used for this purpose in medicine in patient's with hereditary angioedema.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> You once mentioned Vegetables are overrated. On which foods you rely on your micro nutrients?. I hate veggies myself but have to poured them down.
> 
> From Fiber point of view, i take Psyllium husk with each meal though not very keen on including veggies with each meal.


 I'll give you a rough idea, this just a few of the things i eat regularly.

Bananas/dairy = potassium, calcium

potatoes = potassium, magnesium, various b vitamins

dark cocoa = iron, copper, magnesium

Red meat = zinc, iron, potassium, b vitamins, protein

Chicken = selenium, b vitamins, protein

I am fully covered by my diet and it's not even that diverse. I just eat foods that i like, and i still fit in desserts, cereal, etc.

You can get your fiber from fruits and potatoes. The foods i mentioned above are extremely versatile, you make potatoes as fries, mashed, roasted, etc. Dark cocoa can be eaten as is, in hot chocolate, over some ice cream, etc. Steak and chicken, you already know haha


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Do you think that 2.5mg of adex should be enough to cover e2 on...
> 
> Currently into week 10 of test/tren/mast (300/300/400) also taking 60mg ralox for duration (gyno reduction) and 0.5 caber PW
> 
> ive not got any real noticeable sides of either apart from being really tired and lethargic throughout the day which could be down to Winny/eca and libido is up and down, constant morning wood. Feeling light headed when standing up (bp In range)
> 
> i know this is a quite vague question and hard to give an answer without blood work but can't help but think my ai dosing is off
> 
> also if my gyno came about from not keeping on top of e2, then I started to run ralox/nolva along side same dose ai... which started to reduce gyno, then after a few weeks gyno was increasing again would this mean that the ai would need increasing?


 For most people that would be too much on 300 mg testosterone. I would say the range would be from 0-2 mg pharma adex on 300 mg test. Depending on genetics.

You could be tired/lethargic from low/crashed E2. I see that more often with low e2 than high e2.

More likely, your gyno came from trenbolone. It can cause gyno quite easily in susceptible individuals. AI will not reverse gyno. You need to stop taking tren if you want to reverse the gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Extrapolating somewhat on this... the bro science 40g of protein per meal being maximum... rather than the maximum figure bandied about.... would it be unreasonable to use 40g of protein more regularly to effectively keep jump starting the protein synthesis response of the body and therefore almost up regulating the protein synthesis rate or does protein synthesis not start and stop that quickly?? Could this be where the 40g per meal with smaller meals come from and it got interpreted by someone as that's 'the most you can consume' and it be used??
> 
> genuine question... also is there any merit to smaller meals with split carbs as well to keep insulin spikes etc going and shuttling nutrients around the body... overall calories are king but can you use smaller meals of carbs and protein to your advantage and do they offer any such advantages over say three larger meals and a three scoop shake split into two between them so five meals a day effectively vs 8 or something similar?? Or do larger meals offer advantages by the same token??


 The effect would be negligible, it's more important to just focus on getting your calories and protein for the DAY, and not obsess over meal timing and frequency. I highly doubt that's where it came from. It came from supplement companies making bank hand over fist because people think they lose gains if they don't kick back a whey shake or BCAA every 2 hours. It' BS.

The only meal timing i would even waste any thought on would pre and post workout. After that, it really doesn't matter. You body is primed to absorb nutrients post-training, so a carb heavy, glycemic meal might be beneficial. Studies have shown pre-workout carbs can also improve performance.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I was cutting on 400 Primo 350 Tren 350 Mast after 3 weeks started feeling fatigued all day... Brain fog etc etc... Libido ok.
> 
> So I restart Injecting Test and felt like new again....
> 
> That told me that on a cycle like that (Deca only) maybe I won't feel that good at all.
> 
> DhT acts also as feel good hormone....
> 
> I don't really know if running high dose of Test will be a real deal... Started thinking to just go for 300-600 TestE Just for the DHT it gives and then up anabolics and add HGH + Slin.
> 
> I think that HGH + Slin will be the real deal.... Have some doubts about high test cycles....
> 
> But I read from people that HGH + high test is the real deal.... What's you experience @ElChapo?
> 
> I find all the bloat from certain aas really useless and detrimental for growth...


 High test is used by most huge guys. If you wanna reach mutant level, high test base is pretty important. Your average gym rat doesn't want to be that big and doesn't usually need high testosterone.

The bloat is obviously useless, but higher test will help you build more muscle and strength IF your diet and training and experience level warrant it. If you don't need high test, your just gonna bloof up for nothing. What you NEED is based on goals.

SLIN+GH is needed to maximize size, not everyone wants to look that way and needs it though.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> High test is used by most huge guys. If you wanna reach mutant level, high test base is pretty important. Your average gym rat doesn't want to be that big and doesn't usually need high testosterone.
> 
> The bloat is obviously useless, but higher test will help you build more muscle and strength IF your diet and training and experience level warrant it. If you don't need high test, your just gonna bloof up for nothing. What you NEED is based on goals.
> 
> SLIN+GH is needed to maximize size, not everyone wants to look that way and needs it though.


 You really cleared all my doubts mate thanks as always!!

The only thing that i have to do is TRY and see what i will like more thanks again!


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> High test is used by most huge guys. If you wanna reach mutant level, high test base is pretty important. Your average gym rat doesn't want to be that big and doesn't usually need high testosterone.
> 
> The bloat is obviously useless, but higher test will help you build more muscle and strength IF your diet and training and experience level warrant it. If you don't need high test, your just gonna bloof up for nothing. What you NEED is based on goals.


 When you say high test, what sort of mg's are we talking ? 1000mg - 1200mg ?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> You really cleared all my doubts mate thanks as always!!
> 
> The only thing that i have to do is TRY and see what i will like more thanks again!


 In the end, if you aren't busting your ass eating a surplus and increasing strength, you're not going anywhere.


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> When you say high test, what sort of mg's are we talking ? 1000mg - 1200mg ?


 +1 g


----------



## gymfreak2010

ElChapo said:


> +1 g


 what dose of deca would you run with + 1g test upwards ?


----------



## bornagod

Does npp raise rbc like deca, is it worse/better?

If its worse what another alternative? Ive got tren but dont fancy that yet lol.

More of a personal question but not too personal dont worry lol, what height and weight are you. Ive always thought this to myself.

And would you say you were more aesthetic type say like

ulisses jr








Or are you more of a mass monster like

morgan aste









Just curious lol


----------



## ElChapo

gymfreak2010 said:


> what dose of deca would you run with + 1g test upwards ?


 That's going to depend on your experience level. I am a fan of 1:1 test/deca cycles. 300-1,000 mg of each depending on goals and experience levels.

Most gym rats are being held back by their subpar training and diet, not by their AAS. Increasing dose is just a crutch, most of the time guys are increasing their dosages too soon to make up for lack of progress.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Does npp raise rbc like deca, is it worse/better?
> 
> If its worse what another alternative? Ive got tren but dont fancy that yet lol.
> 
> More of a personal question but not too personal dont worry lol, what height and weight are you. Ive always thought this to myself.
> 
> And would you say you were more aesthetic type say like
> 
> ulisses jr
> View attachment 143815
> 
> 
> Or are you more of a mass monster like
> 
> morgan aste
> 
> 
> View attachment 143816
> 
> 
> Just curious lol


 Yes, it can be worse. Some people have zero issue on either, blood work is your friend.

Aesthetic type myself now, i used to be bigger but when i got back into martial arts, it greatly impeded cardio/flexibility/etc. No point in "looking" scary when you can't fight. That's the way i see it. So for me Health+fighting ability+general aesthetics > Mass

Pro bodybuilder body type is the worst for combat sports. The amount of oxygen the muscles suck up is huge and you will gas quicker, the stiffness that comes from the extra mauscle and doing the same movements over and over makes it so submissions will work hard and fast due to decreased range of motion. Punches are usually very very slow as well. It just doesn't work.

Marius Pudzianowski did alright in MMA but even he had to lose size.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 1. No
> 
> 2. No
> 
> 3. What is your E2 control? this can cause bad bloat very easily. The other possibility is an allergy to something you are eating. Sometimes the only symptom of a food allergy is bloating. Winstrol is will suck water out of you, it's used for this purpose in medicine in patient's with hereditary angioedema.


 using .5 adex e3d.... estro is in range, im still sticking to my usual diet i always have, chicken, rice , porterhouse steak, sweet potato, eggs, isolyze protein, salmon/tuna and some natural peanut butter when extra fats are needed... only thing i can really think is this is the first time i got legit adrol (only used twice before both androlic may have been bunk?) ,, or t4 which i if anything has made me feel great, more energy, arms, legs , calves extremely ripped with veins showing ... t4 and adrol are the only big changes ive made


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Yes, it can be worse. Some people have zero issue on either, blood work is your friend.
> 
> Aesthetic type myself now, i used to be bigger but when i got back into martial arts, it greatly impeded cardio/flexibility/etc. No point in "looking" scary when you can't fight. That's the way i see it.
> 
> Pro bodybuilder body type is the worst for combat sports. The amount of oxygen the muscles suck up is huge and you will gas quicker, the stiffness that comes from the extra mauscle and doing the same movements over and over makes it so submissions will work hard and fast due to decreased range of motion. Punches are usually very very slow as well. It just doesn't work.
> 
> Marius Pudzianowski did alright in MMA but even he had to lose size.


 OK! I will break your balls another time.....

How much Test do you think are ON these AESTHETIC guys like Ulysses? This is the body i like the most!!!


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> using .5 adex e3d.... estro is in range, im still sticking to my usual diet i always have, chicken, rice , porterhouse steak, sweet potato, eggs, isolyze protein, salmon/tuna and some natural peanut butter when extra fats are needed... only thing i can really think is this is the first time i got legit adrol (only used twice before both androlic may have been bunk?) ,, or t4 which i if anything has made me feel great, more energy, arms, legs , calves extremely ripped with veins showing ... t4 and adrol are the only big changes ive made


 What's your estradiol? Anadrol has been know to bloat mother****ers. Switching out for winstrol will likely fix your issue, IF it's not food allergy.

The foods you mentioned are common allergens ( egg, peanut)


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> OK! I will break your balls another time.....
> 
> How much Test do you think are ON these AESTHETIC guys like Ulysses? This is the body i like the most!!!


 Great question

It's not the AAS, it's their VERY low body fat, muscle insertions, and genetics.

Generally, they would build the mass with whatever (high test, etc), but maintaining it, they only need a minimal amount (300-600 mg) + AAS that enhance conditioning like winstrol and trenbolone.

The "secret" to aesthetic Ulysses style physique = Very low body fat with a respectable amount of muscle, small waist/great insertions, AAS that suck out SQ water

( winstrol/trenbolone).


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> What's your estradiol? Anadrol has been know to bloat mother****ers. Switching out for winstrol will likely fix your issue, IF it's not food allergy.
> 
> The foods you mentioned are common allergens ( egg, peanut)


 estradiol is 97 pmol/l (range <150)

hopefully it is the adrol, but is adrol know to only bloat in lower stomach or every where on the body? because as i said this is more just lower stomach ...

if i do have food allergies , would digestive enzymes help in any way?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> estradiol is 97 pmol/l (range <150)
> 
> hopefully it is the adrol, but is adrol know to only bloat in lower stomach or every where on the body? because as i said this is more just lower stomach ...
> 
> if i do have food allergies , would digestive enzymes help in any way?


 Can't say for sure

Try switching out for winstrol and keep diet the same, or eliminating foods one by one.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> I'll give you a rough idea, this just a few of the things i eat regularly.
> 
> Bananas/dairy = potassium, calcium
> 
> potatoes = potassium, magnesium, various b vitamins
> 
> dark cocoa = iron, copper, magnesium
> 
> Red meat = zinc, iron, potassium, b vitamins, protein
> 
> Chicken = selenium, b vitamins, protein
> 
> I am fully covered by my diet and it's not even that diverse. I just eat foods that i like, and i still fit in desserts, cereal, etc.
> 
> You can get your fiber from fruits and potatoes. The foods i mentioned above are extremely versatile, you make potatoes as fries, mashed, roasted, etc. Dark cocoa can be eaten as is, in hot chocolate, over some ice cream, etc. Steak and chicken, you already know haha


 Dark cocoa powder?. Do you use this as per workout?. How much you use it?


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Great question
> 
> It's not the AAS, it's their VERY low body fat, muscle insertions, and genetics.
> 
> Generally, they would build the mass with whatever (high test, etc), but maintaining it, they only need a minimal amount (300-600 mg) + AAS that enhance conditioning like winstrol and trenbolone.
> 
> The "secret" to aesthetic Ulysses style physique = Very low body fat with a respectable amount of muscle, small waist/great insertions, AAS that suck out SQ water
> 
> ( winstrol/trenbolone).


 Had similar thought when i saw Jeff Seid during few of his offseason vids.... he was really bloated.... biceps were looking like sausages.

Then you see him ripped as f**k.

I think that he starts his offseason with wet AAS like Test Deca/EQ HGH Slin (low doses both) then when he comes near photo shoots period, or in general exposure to public periods then switches to classic Test Tren/Primo Mast (maybe Stanolone, this dries you a lot but for us it's hard to find in Enhantate ester) and they (aesthetic type crew) keep Winstrol/Superdrol for picking periods.

To all that add a good diet, digestive enzymes and also that they have for sure lots of blood tests done and they perfectly know how they respond to Hormones (TotalTest/E2/PRL/DHT,) all these values are really useful to keep you grainy.

25pg/nl (not sure about the u.m.) + 500+ DHT should let you look grainy as f**k.

Most of us can't really afford all that, even if i think that dialing E2, Test, and DHT won't be that expensive since it will be an investment for our future... in the end we should dial hormones to the puberty values...


----------



## SlinMeister

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Dark cocoa powder?. Do you use this as per workout?. How much you use it?


 I like white Ephedrine powder as prewo  but you can mix it with cocoa...


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Dark cocoa powder?. Do you use this as per workout?. How much you use it?


 Dark chocolate, 70-90%. I eat one bar daily.

You only need half a bar (about 40 g) to reap the benefits of cocoa consumption.

I don't even eat it for the health benefits, i just love chocolate. The health benefits are intense though. Very strong anti-oxidant among other benefits.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I like white Ephedrine powder as prewo  but you can mix it with cocoa...


 EC is an amazing, underrated pwo. It is literally adrenaline in your body.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Had similar thought when i saw Jeff Seid during few of his offseason vids.... he was really bloated.... biceps were looking like sausages.
> 
> Then you see him ripped as f**k.
> 
> I think that he starts his offseason with wet AAS like Test Deca/EQ HGH Slin (low doses both) then when he comes near photo shoots period, or in general exposure to public periods then switches to classic Test Tren/Primo Mast (maybe Stanolone, this dries you a lot but for us it's hard to find in Enhantate ester) and they (aesthetic type crew) keep Winstrol/Superdrol for picking periods.
> 
> To all that add a good diet, digestive enzymes and also that they have for sure lots of blood tests done and they perfectly know how they respond to Hormones (TotalTest/E2/PRL/DHT,) all these values are really useful to keep you grainy.
> 
> 25pg/nl (not sure about the u.m.) + 500+ DHT should let you look grainy as f**k.
> 
> Most of us can't really afford all that, even if i think that dialing E2, Test, and DHT won't be that expensive since it will be an investment for our future... in the end we should dial hormones to the puberty values...


 All you need low body fat <9%, decent amount of muscle and winstrol. Easy.


----------



## Jordan08

SlinMeister said:


> I like white Ephedrine powder as prewo  but you can mix it with cocoa...


 Haha. I used to drink something like this, give it a try, better than many pwo powders but nothing in front of what you are using though

1 spoon coffee

Half spoon cocoa powder

One pinch of black pepper and cayenne pepper

Put all this in boiled water, brew it for couple of minutes. RTD

No jittering with amazing focus during the workout.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Haha. I used to drink something like this, give it a try, better than many pwo powders but nothing in front of what you are using though
> 
> 1 spoon coffee
> 
> Half spoon cocoa powder
> 
> One pinch of black pepper and cayenne pepper
> 
> Put all this in boiled water, brew it for couple of minutes. RTD
> 
> No jittering with amazing focus during the workout.


 I also like toast with jelly sprinkled heavily with cocoa powder.


----------



## capo

ElChapo said:


> Dark chocolate, 70-90%. I eat one bar daily.


 I read once about chocamine powder for recovery , and flavonoids,would a decent bar of dark chocolate do the same and what's your opinion on "super greens " as a supp not a replacement for veg


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> I read once about chocamine powder for recovery , and flavonoids,would a decent bar of dark chocolate do the same and what's your opinion on "super greens " as a supp not a replacement for veg


 Yeah, and super greens is alright.


----------



## SoberHans

Big fan of mma too.

What do you reckon Yoel Romero is taking? And how does he get around the drug testing?

Sick of people saying he is natural on the mma forums.


----------



## superdrol

SoberHans said:


> Big fan of mma too.
> 
> What do you reckon Yoel Romero is taking? And how does he get around the drug testing?
> 
> Sick of people saying he is natural on the mma forums.


 Probably fast waterless compounds if any, he has a very awesomephysique and is massive for natty status... but I reckon his physique is doable natty, he's blessed with awesome genetics I reckon if I'm honest, if he was brock lesnar sized id say juice or that Dutch bloke whose name escapes me that got busted after the mark hunt fight... genetics go a huge distance to your ability to hold muscle and stay lean


----------



## SoberHans

superdrol said:


> Probably fast waterless compounds if any, he has a very awesomephysique and is massive for natty status... but I reckon his physique is doable natty, he's blessed with awesome genetics I reckon if I'm honest, if he was brock lesnar sized id say juice or that Dutch bloke whose name escapes me that got busted after the mark hunt fight... genetics go a huge distance to your ability to hold muscle and stay lean


 Im very skeptical on him being natty. He looks naturally a small guy, narrow shoulders etc. He carries a lot of muscle which I'm guessing would be hard to maintain with the amount of cardio needed to compete in the UFC.


----------



## superdrol

SoberHans said:


> Im very skeptical on him being natty. He looks naturally a small guy, narrow shoulders etc. He carries a lot of muscle which I'm guessing would be hard to maintain with the amount of cardio needed to compete in the UFC.


 Narrow shoulders??? Not particularly... and small?? Lol and he gases early if he goes from the off, he's better at pacing himself now so he doesn't gas so much

View attachment IMG_5153.JPG


----------



## JUICE1

SoberHans said:


> Im very skeptical on him being natty. He looks naturally a small guy, narrow shoulders etc. He carries a lot of muscle which I'm guessing would be hard to maintain with the amount of cardio needed to compete in the UFC.


 How can you say he's naturally a small guy if you don't know if he's natty or not?


----------



## SoberHans

superdrol said:


> Narrow shoulders??? Not particularly... and small?? Lol and he gases early if he goes from the off, he's better at pacing himself now so he doesn't gas so much
> 
> View attachment 143829


 Look at him next to other fighters. He's not a big guy, he carries loads of muscle at 6 foot and fights at 185. Probably walks around at 200.


----------



## SoberHans

JUICE1 said:


> How can you say he's naturally a small guy if you don't know if he's natty or not?


 Sorry I meant small if he never lifted etc


----------



## SoberHans

Guy on the left Alves fights at 155 and Romero isn't much bigger. Without the muscle Romero would be a welterweight or lightweight


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Big fan of mma too.
> 
> What do you reckon Yoel Romero is taking? And how does he get around the drug testing?
> 
> Sick of people saying he is natural on the mma forums.


 Definitely not natural, no one is at that level.

For the people who think you have to look very muscular to be juicing, look at anderson silva, physique of a wet sausage, caught taking masteron.

Most laymen think you gotta look like ronnie to be juicing, true is, most juiceheads look like s**t / or like they dont lift.


----------



## JUICE1

SoberHans said:


> Guy on the left Alves fights at 155 and Romero isn't much bigger. Without the muscle Romero would be a welterweight or lightweight
> 
> View attachment 143832


 Without the muscle they would all be a lower weight.. What's your point?


----------



## JUICE1

ElChapo said:


> Definitely not natural, no one is at that level.
> 
> For the people who think you have to look very muscular to be juicing, look at anderson silva, physique of a wet sausage, caught taking masteron.
> 
> Most laymen think you gotta look like ronnie to be juicing, true is, most juiceheads look like s**t / or like they dont lift.


 You say that but from what I've read once they started popping people left right and center suddenly certain fighters got less muscular and less effective. The UFC supposedly has some of the best anti-doping in sport right now.

You really think 100% of them juice?


----------



## SoberHans

JUICE1 said:


> Without the muscle they would all be a lower weight.. What's your point?


 Someone said he didn't have narrow shoulders and a small frame so trying to show he is similar size to someone who fights at lightweight


----------



## JUICE1

SoberHans said:


> Someone said he didn't have narrow shoulders and a small frame so trying to show he is similar size to someone who fights at lightweight


 Couldn't the guy on the left fight at the same weight as Romero if he just added more muscle though? Fighters fight at different weights at different points in their career right? I'm not trying to say you're wrong I just don't know a lot about MMA.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

ElChapo said:


> Dark chocolate, 70-90%. I eat one bar daily.
> 
> You only need half a bar (about 40 g) to reap the benefits of cocoa consumption.
> 
> I don't even eat it for the health benefits, i just love chocolate. The health benefits are intense though. Very strong anti-oxidant among other benefits.


 Haha reading this after 3 squares of lindt 85%


----------



## SoberHans

JUICE1 said:


> Couldn't the guy on the left fight at the same weight as Romero if he just added more muscle though? Fighters fight at different weights at different points in their career right? I'm not trying to say you're wrong I just don't know a lot about MMA.


 Probably but was trying to make point Romero carries a lot of muscle on a small frame which probably couldn't hold onto naturally whilst competing in mma. Guy is 40 too.


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Do you think that 2.5mg of adex should be enough to cover e2 on...
> 
> Currently into week 10 of test/tren/mast (300/300/400) also taking 60mg ralox for duration (gyno reduction) and 0.5 caber PW
> 
> ive not got any real noticeable sides of either apart from being really tired and lethargic throughout the day which could be down to Winny/eca and libido is up and down, constant morning wood. Feeling light headed when standing up (bp In range)
> 
> i know this is a quite vague question and hard to give an answer without blood work but can't help but think my ai dosing is off
> 
> also if my gyno came about from not keeping on top of e2, then I started to run ralox/nolva along side same dose ai... which started to reduce gyno, then after a few weeks gyno was increasing again would this mean that the ai would need increasing?


 Just to touch on this again

I'm about to stack var/winny ( 350/175 pw ) on top of my injectables test/tren/mast (300/300/400) i know these aren't high doses but as I'm in contest prep and won't be building any new tissue, and my aim is hold my size and gain aesthetic look... I was thinking of slightly lowering either test or tren?

First thought is to lower tren to aid with my ongoing gyno reduction, maybe from 300 to 250/200... but then would i lose the benefit of what tren has to offer for contest?

Just wanted yoyr take on which would be the better option test or tren.


----------



## JUICE1

@ElChapo if you don't mind  Appreciate the time you've put into this. Haven't posted much but read a lot.

What are your thoughts on Clen pre or post cardio? Is it wise to drop 50-100mcg Clen and then do cardio because it will burn more calories or is that putting unnecessary strain on the heart and you might be better off taking it afterwards?


----------



## Pancake'

if you excessively overdone it on protein requirements for your bodyweight 2g - 2.5g per lb of bodyweight, would their be any detrimental effects, if this persisted overtime?

Recommended starting dose for Ephedrine, for someone who is very sensitive to caffeine/stims etc.

Test 300mg/NPP 200mg or Test 500mg/NPP 400mg ok for a second cycle?

50mg Zinc Citrate ED ok?

I get the whole top tier athlete using peds, what do you think someone like McGregor will be using?

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

JUICE1 said:


> You say that but from what I've read once they started popping people left right and center suddenly certain fighters got less muscular and less effective. The UFC supposedly has some of the best anti-doping in sport right now.
> 
> You really think 100% of them juice?


 It's harder now, they still use for training recovery and up to the fight. The trick is to use AAS and esters who's detection window is small. This is hard because USADA tests for metabolites, which have a much longer terminal life than the parent hormone.

You can never say 100% or speak in absolutes, but most athletes are using.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> Just to touch on this again
> 
> I'm about to stack var/winny ( 350/175 pw ) on top of my injectables test/tren/mast (300/300/400) i know these aren't high doses but as I'm in contest prep and won't be building any new tissue, and my aim is hold my size and gain aesthetic look... I was thinking of slightly lowering either test or tren?
> 
> First thought is to lower tren to aid with my ongoing gyno reduction, maybe from 300 to 250/200... but then would i lose the benefit of what tren has to offer for contest?
> 
> Just wanted yoyr take on which would be the better option test or tren.


 If it's tren ace, 200 mg per week is good and a minimum. If it's enanthate, 300 mg. You can also eliminate the tren and up the winstrol. Tren is overrated (this is coming from a tren fan)

If your gyno lump is not noticeable and won't affect your contest and you really wanna keep the tren, then just leave as is. Lowering it further you won't get much out of it, and you will still have gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> if you excessively overdone it on protein requirements for your bodyweight 2g - 2.5g per lb of bodyweight, would their be any detrimental effects, if this persisted overtime?
> 
> Recommended starting dose for Ephedrine, for someone who is very sensitive to caffeine/stims etc.
> 
> Test 300mg/NPP 200mg or Test 500mg/NPP 400mg ok for a second cycle?
> 
> 50mg Zinc Citrate ED ok?
> 
> I get the whole top tier athlete using peds, what do you think someone like McGregor will be using?
> 
> Thanks.


 No, but high protein diet does make the kidneys work harder. If this leads to kidney issues down the line has yet to be seen. I would worry more about keeping blood pressure and blood glucose within normal limits to protect the kidneys.

Start with around 10 mg of ephedrine, that's half the starting dose. You can cut a tablet into quarters and taper up and down to tolerance by 5 mg at a time. Full dose is 20 mg.

50 mg zinc citrate is good. some may worry about copper deficiency, it's usually not a problem at 50 mg daily, but over that, it can be.

300/300 test/npp or 500/500 will be very effective, *if* training and diet are in check. The 500/500 might do better as a third cycle, but if you train and eat right, it will be extremely effective regardless. Up to you. 300/300 will let you get your feet wet a bit more, and let you feel out nandrolone if it's your first time.

Probably test/GH, maybe low dose winstrol. I wouldn't know, that's just a guess. His ACL recovered insanely quickly if i recall correctly when he got injured. AAS and PEDs are too effective for athletes not to be using. If i recall, athletes are the biggest demographic of PEDs users, and gym rats are actually a small percentage.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

If u were running 500mg test and 75-100mg winny (it agreed with me in the past) then how long could you run this for? (the winny) if taking liver precautions and lean bulking etc. Seems like a side free stack and you appear to rate winny highly.

Cheers.


----------



## 18650

Apologies if you've already answered this, couldn't find the answer with the search function.

Why do non aromatising AAS still cause elevated blood pressure? Is it to do with strain on the kidneys, if so what mechanisms are forcing the kidneys to work harder?

Thanks ElChapo


----------



## Tricky

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If u were running 500mg test and 75-100mg winny (it agreed with me in the past) then how long could you run this for? (the winny) if taking liver precautions and lean bulking etc. Seems like a side free stack and you appear to rate winny highly.
> 
> Cheers.


 He has recommended 12 weeks winny 50mg per day or 8 weeks 100mg daily with tucda


----------



## TinTin10

@ElChapo

Currently on 125mg/w test E for TRT as natural test is shot (7.2nmol/l)

Would there be any benefit of running a winstrol cycle with 250mg/w of test? If not, what stack would you recommend using in to maintain cutting goals?

Reason being I am looking to get as lean as possible until November this year, then run a bulking cycle over the winter.

Thanks again mate!


----------



## stewedw

Tricky said:


> He has recommended 12 weeks winny 50mg per day or 8 weeks 100mg daily with tucda


 Thanks man


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If u were running 500mg test and 75-100mg winny (it agreed with me in the past) then how long could you run this for? (the winny) if taking liver precautions and lean bulking etc. Seems like a side free stack and you appear to rate winny highly.
> 
> Cheers.


 If you have no liver issues, don't drink or use drugs and run TUDCA. 6-12 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Apologies if you've already answered this, couldn't find the answer with the search function.
> 
> Why do non aromatising AAS still cause elevated blood pressure? Is it to do with strain on the kidneys, if so what mechanisms are forcing the kidneys to work harder?
> 
> Thanks ElChapo


 No strain on the kidneys, androgens upregulate *20-Hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid and renin.* These increase vascular reactivity and fluid retention in the body.

The kidneys aren't working harder, think about pushing high pressure water through a filter, eventually it will damage the membranes. High blood pressure damages the vasculature supplying oxygen and nutrition to the kidneys and damages the glomerulus.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Currently on 125mg/w test E for TRT as natural test is shot (7.2nmol/l)
> 
> Would there be any benefit of running a winstrol cycle with 250mg/w of test? If not, what stack would you recommend using in to maintain cutting goals?
> 
> Reason being I am looking to get as lean as possible until November this year, then run a bulking cycle over the winter.
> 
> Thanks again mate!


 You can run TRT + 50 mg winstrol daily, that should cover you for cutting.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> No strain on the kidneys, androgens upregulate *20-Hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid and renin.* These increase vascular reactivity and fluid retention in the body.
> 
> The kidneys aren't working harder, think about pushing high pressure water through a filter, eventually it will damage the membranes. High blood pressure damages the vasculature supplying oxygen and nutrition to the kidneys and damages the glomerulus.


 F**f me ElChapo, you really know your stuff!


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> F**f me ElChapo, you really know your stuff!


 Thank you, i'm always learning.


----------



## ElChapo

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/15/russian-doping-programme-olympics-london-2012-sochi-2014?CMP=twt_gu

Some evidence that the organizers behind the olympics have a hand in the doping situation. Olympics make money off of records being broken and people want to see the highest level of human performance. You get rid of PEDs and we will see records turned back decades.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo I suffer from gyno on cycle, always goes back down after. Unless you're a body builder and know what gyno is it it wouldn't be noticed so not massively fussed but still a pain

ive tried up to 1mg adex ed with 20mg nolva and still get it. This cycle I'm just on 2mg adex each week

do I just have to except I'm gyno sensitive or is there something else to try?


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Let's talk about AI. Letrozole, Adex, Aromasin.

Noticed that you said that for Average Joe 1mg Adex covers 300 Test.

For me it really works like that.... I will verify it by bloods soon but... I would like to try Aromasin... Or even Letro since I would like to dry up now that I am at the end of my cut  (just 2kg to go and have feathered quads)

What's you experience with Letrozole and Aromasin?

What are your magical numbers with these drugs?

Which AI you prefer?


----------



## SlinMeister

EQUIPOISE

what's you experience with EQ?

Does it really aromatize?


----------



## Baka

Does EQ help healing process?

I have an osteolysis at the colarbone and i was wondering if EQ could help repairing the bone?


----------



## Savage Lifter

Thoughts on 500mg test 200mg tren 350mg winstrol per week and 4iu gh ED? Is it worth adding any of the spare anavar, dhb, mast and deca that I have or would it just go to waste?


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

instead of taking adex eod could I take it all at once say once a week thanks mate


----------



## shratus

@ElChapo

What's your view on T3 cytomel and carbs refeed for leptin needed or not?


----------



## Jordan08

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> instead of taking adex eod could I take it all at once say once a week thanks mate


 Yes. He answered it before.

Aromasin 2*weekly

Adex 1* weekly is fine.


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

When taking Yohimbine in a fasted state, did you say you can still have have a cup of coffee within the 4 hours after taking it?

Ive had a look back but cant seem to find your answer sorry.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Yes, it can be worse. Some people have zero issue on either, blood work is your friend.
> 
> Aesthetic type myself now, i used to be bigger but when i got back into martial arts, it greatly impeded cardio/flexibility/etc. No point in "looking" scary when you can't fight. That's the way i see it. So for me Health+fighting ability+general aesthetics > Mass
> 
> Pro bodybuilder body type is the worst for combat sports. The amount of oxygen the muscles suck up is huge and you will gas quicker, the stiffness that comes from the extra mauscle and doing the same movements over and over makes it so submissions will work hard and fast due to decreased range of motion. Punches are usually very very slow as well. It just doesn't work.
> 
> Marius Pudzianowski did alright in MMA but even he had to lose size.


 How could it be worse, same drug just 1 fast acting and 1 slow? Yes of coarse bloods would obviously be a good idea.

I suppose it would make the most sense from a grappling perspective.

Thats why the heavily muscled ufc fighters like hector lombard and yeol romero gas pretty easyily then


----------



## Lancashiregent

@ElChapo

Just been recommend this fat burner.

What's your opinion on the profile and the amounts listed - enough to be effective? - In particular the Bioperine Black Pepper Extract.

Many thanks!

495mg Neurostim Blend Containing: Caffeine Anhydrous, Octadrine, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine -

135mg Incinerate Thermo Complex Containing: Salicin, Higenamine Hydrochloride, Cayenne Extract, Gamma Butyrobetaine Ethyl Ester Hydrochloride Pausinystalia Extract

100mg Thyrocharge Containing: Bovine Thyroid, Guggul Lipid PE Extract

16mg Calcium (as carbonate)

10mg Niacin

5mg Vitamin B6

5mg Bioperine Black Pepper Extract

Other ingredients: Gelatin, Inulin (from chicory), Vegetable Stearate


----------



## warsteiner

Natty fat burners are going to do as much as natty test boosters and with blends you have no idea of how much each ingredient is actually in the product. You would be better off using an ECA stack (if the are still around) or sibutramine (appetite suppressant) to help you reduce calories or clen to help burn fat. Or if you want (or need) to remain natty then just will-power with reduced calories and additional cardio.


----------



## Tricky

Lancashiregent said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just been recommend this fat burner.
> 
> What's your opinion on the profile and the amounts listed - enough to be effective? - In particular the Bioperine Black Pepper Extract.
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> 495mg Neurostim Blend Containing: Caffeine Anhydrous, Octadrine, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine -
> 
> 135mg Incinerate Thermo Complex Containing: Salicin, Higenamine Hydrochloride, Cayenne Extract, Gamma Butyrobetaine Ethyl Ester Hydrochloride Pausinystalia Extract
> 
> 100mg Thyrocharge Containing: Bovine Thyroid, Guggul Lipid PE Extract
> 
> 16mg Calcium (as carbonate)
> 
> 10mg Niacin
> 
> 5mg Vitamin B6
> 
> 5mg Bioperine Black Pepper Extract
> 
> Other ingredients: Gelatin, Inulin (from chicory), Vegetable Stearate


 Only thing your going to lose is hard earned cash to some marketing scam


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

What's your view on sleeping aids on muscle growth. What would be the best to use for insomnia


----------



## Devil

Having started off my blast and cruise journey two years ago with 500mg test, I didn't like the high test that much, and eventually tried running 150mg test year round and adding in other compounds (tren in particular, and orals) when I blast.

Although I get on fantastically well with tren in terms of most sides, it does crush my cholestorol, and have seen your recommendations about having this crushed long term.

Therefore I'm tempted to try deca for

my winter bulk instead of tren, as I assume deca is nowhere near as harsh on the lipids etc?

Thinking 150mg test 300mg deca?

bascially in short I'm asking what you feel safer to run deca vs tren, as, if you confirm what I feel your answer may be, running tren 6-8 months a year is probably not the most wise decision.

I like the low dosage (compared to most) as I have pretty much been side effect free throughout my whole 2 year blast and cruise keeping it like this!

Cheers mate @ElChapo


----------



## Baka

I"ve heard Dbol was 100% sure to give some kind of gyno , even with tamox/ralox .

Is that true ? can it be reverse fast?

It's an oral that i'm intersted in but i'm gyno prone so i don't touch it , i don't touch orals


----------



## bornagod

Baka said:


> I"ve heard Dbol was 100% sure to give some kind of gyno , even with tamox/ralox .
> 
> Is that true ? can it be reverse fast?
> 
> It's an oral that i'm intersted in but i'm gyno prone so i don't touch it , i don't touch orals


 Dbol aromatizes to Methylestradiol which is strong as bull, just look at methyl tren, strongest steroid ever. Id avoid if you were gyno prone, unless you dont mind walking around like katie price aka jordan


----------



## Baka

bornagod said:


> Dbol aromatizes to Methylestradiol which is strong as bull, just look at methyl tren, strongest steroid ever. Id avoid if you were gyno prone, unless you dont mind walking around like katie price aka jordan


 yea  but if it can get reverse then it may be ok , but if not it's not worth it ofc


----------



## bornagod

Baka said:


> yea  but if it can get reverse then it may be ok , but if not it's not worth it ofc


 Probably be able to reverse it to an extent but never totally get rid of it, without getting the glands removed of coarse


----------



## ElChapo

Take a look at some of the steroid busts in MMA, half the guys have diaper physiques too. Steroids are in all sports.

http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/


----------



## ElChapo

Be back soon, i will get to all questions.


----------



## G-man99

Why does clen produce such bad cramps??

I get it really bad sometimes


----------



## youarewhatyoueat

You advised gyno would reduce in 6/8 with nolva/ralox... Well I'm coming up to week 7 ( 4 nolva - 3 ralox) and gyno has Defo reduced considerably maybe by 70/80% barely visible...

I've got 8 weeks left of prep should I carry on taking 60mg ralox ed or maybe half my dose to 30mg ed for duration?...

Or stop altogether and continue if I notice it growing again? Obviously I want to be taking as less meds as poss, and would like to keep it on hand for when it arises again which I'm sure it will, unless glands are removed.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Take a look at some of the steroid busts in MMA, half the guys have diaper physiques too. Steroids are in all sports.
> 
> http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/


 Ye look at shaun sherk got caught out and had ufc belt stripped


----------



## Baka

Can AAS use or SERM/AI use be related to apparition of osteolysis in collarbone ?

I do have a oesteolysis and i'll maybe have to stop working out for months/years , are raloxifen/letro use dangerous for that?


----------



## JUICE1

@ElChapo

Another one if I can.

If I'm dieting, as I am now (1600kcal 160g protein), and I take 2-3 days off the gym, would it be detrimental to reduce protein intake and until I my next gym session? My logic being that if there is no muscle repair to be done do I really still require that much protein to maintain? Surely more of that 160g of protein is going to be utilised as energy in lieu of muscle breakdown to repair? Probably worth mentioning I'm on 125mg/wk Test, 200mg/wk Tren and 50mg/day Winstrol.

If so can I also reduce calorie intake or will that change anything?


----------



## green81

Why do orals only work for 4-6 weeks?


----------



## Tricky

green81 said:


> Why do orals only work for 4-6 weeks?


 They don't. That's just bro science you've been told or read over at bb.com many use them for 10-12 weeks with no issues


----------



## Devil

JUICE1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Another one if I can.
> 
> If I'm dieting, as I am now (1600kcal 160g protein), and I take 2-3 days off the gym, would it be detrimental to reduce protein intake and until I my next gym session? My logic being that if there is no muscle repair to be done do I really still require that much protein to maintain? Surely more of that 160g of protein is going to be utilised as energy in lieu of muscle breakdown to repair? Probably worth mentioning I'm on 125mg/wk Test, 200mg/wk Tren and 50mg/day Winstrol.
> 
> If so can I also reduce calorie intake or will that change anything?


 You're body will be in a constant state of repairing, not just training days.

Just be consistent. If you want to reduce calories on non-training days to increase on training, doesn't make a difference.

thats quite low calories and protein however, I would be hesitant in going any further.


----------



## JUICE1

Devil said:


> You're body will be in a constant state of repairing, not just training days.
> 
> Just be consistent. If you want to reduce calories on non-training days to increase on training, doesn't make a difference.
> 
> thats quite low calories and protein however, I would be hesitant in going any further.


 A constant state of repair for sure but surely with varying degrees of repair to be done based on training stimulus?

I'm in a comp with 3 weeks left so dieting more extremely right now. As per PSMF studies I don't see a problem going as low as 1200 for the last week. Unless you can show me something to convince me otherwise, if you can please do because I want to do well in this!


----------



## JUICE1

green81 said:


> Why do orals only work for 4-6 weeks?


 They don't. The reason people use them for short periods like this is because they're liver toxic. If you took Anadrol for 6 months straight your liver won't be very healthy.


----------



## Tricky

JUICE1 said:


> They don't. The reason people use them for short periods like this is because they're liver toxic. If you took Anadrol for 6 months straight your liver won't be very healthy.


 It also wouldn't be shot to bits like many would think . Values would be slightly elevated yes but nothing compared to what people on here or other forums say would happened for running oxy for 6 months. It's been done before with no issues


----------



## JUICE1

Tricky said:


> It also wouldn't be shot to bits like many would think . Values would be slightly elevated yes but nothing compared to what people on here or other forums say would happened for running oxy for 6 months. It's been done before with no issues


 It's very person defendant tbf. There's people who can run Superdrol at 40mg/day for a month whereas 20mg/day for a week makes stomach feels like it's eating my liver haha. I'm not saying you can't do it, it's just not advisable know what I mean.

You can drink alcohol everyday for a year if you want, I've done it, it's not going to kill you I just wouldn't advise doing it.


----------



## Tricky

JUICE1 said:


> It's very person defendant tbf. There's people who can run Superdrol at 40mg/day for a month whereas 20mg/day for a week makes stomach feels like it's eating my liver haha. I'm not saying you can't do it, it's just not advisable know what I mean.
> 
> You can drink alcohol everyday for a year if you want, I've done it, it's not going to kill you I just wouldn't advise doing it.


 Yea I know what you mean people just seem to say orals max 6 weeks they are so bad ect yet the NHS prescibed aids patients 300mg of anadrol for 30 weeks and their livers and kidneys didn't pack in or even come remotely close to failure. Just shows how over rated the toxicity of orals are among bb boards


----------



## JUICE1

Tricky said:


> Yea I know what you mean people just seem to say orals max 6 weeks they are so bad ect yet the NHS prescibed aids patients 300mg of anadrol for 30 weeks and their livers and kidneys didn't pack in or even come remotely close to failure. Just shows how over rated the toxicity of orals are among bb boards


 300mg Anadrol  jesus christ I dread to think what their blood pressure was like. Saying that I'm not a Dr but it doesn't seem unrealistic that maybe it's beneficial to have a drug that massively increases RBC count if you have AIDS.

EDIT: or did you mean 300mg/week? I was assuming you meant 300mg/day.


----------



## Tricky

JUICE1 said:


> 300mg Anadrol  jesus christ I dread to think what their blood pressure was like. Saying that I'm not a Dr but it doesn't seem unrealistic that maybe it's beneficial to have a drug that massively increases RBC count if you have AIDS.
> 
> EDIT: or did you mean 300mg/week? I was assuming you meant 300mg/day.


 Yea I meant 300mg per day I'll dig out the study for you when I'm home and you can see their liver values, blood pressure and all other relevant readings during and post 30 weeks. It's quite an old study but still a study on doctors use of anadrol to treat aids patients


----------



## JUICE1

Tricky said:


> Yea I meant 300mg per day I'll dig out the study for you when I'm home and you can see their liver values, blood pressure and all other relevant readings during and post 30 weeks. It's quite an old study but still a study on doctors use of anadrol to treat aids patients


 Yeh please do if you can. I've seen a few on Anavar but not Anadrol.

Tempted to run 300mg/day for a week to see what that's like hahaha.


----------



## JUICE1

Tricky said:


> Yea I meant 300mg per day I'll dig out the study for you when I'm home and you can see their liver values, blood pressure and all other relevant readings during and post 30 weeks. It's quite an old study but still a study on doctors use of anadrol to treat aids patients


 I know a lot of these drugs were designed for AIDS patients to stop muscle wastage so that makes me wonder, surely plain old Testosterone would do the trick? That's what's making me think maybe the RBC increasing effects of Anadrol was another reason for them using that. I should start reading more studies tbf.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Let's talk about AI. Letrozole, Adex, Aromasin.
> 
> Noticed that you said that for Average Joe 1mg Adex covers 300 Test.
> 
> For me it really works like that.... I will verify it by bloods soon but... I would like to try Aromasin... Or even Letro since I would like to dry up now that I am at the end of my cut  (just 2kg to go and have feathered quads)
> 
> What's you experience with Letrozole and Aromasin?
> 
> What are your magical numbers with these drugs?
> 
> Which AI you prefer?


 1 mg adex = 2.5 mg letrozole ( You feel letrozole more because it inhibits E1 and E3 better than adex and is able to cross the blood-brain barrier more effectively and stop aromatization in the brain more effectively as well as in other tissues)

I would stick to adex or aromasin as they are easier to find and letrozole can have an impact on mood and libido independent of it's effect on E2 levels.

Aromasin at 12.5-25 mg E3D is a good conservative starting dose depending on how heavily you aromatize. A common misconception is that it needs to be dosed daily due to a short half-life. The thing is that when you irreversibly bind aromatase, it needs to be replaced. This takes a couple of days.

People will always cite affects on IGF and cholesterol for favoring one AI over the other, this effect is irrelevant between the three AIs and most comes down to lowering E2.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo I suffer from gyno on cycle, always goes back down after. Unless you're a body builder and know what gyno is it it wouldn't be noticed so not massively fussed but still a pain
> 
> ive tried up to 1mg adex ed with 20mg nolva and still get it. This cycle I'm just on 2mg adex each week
> 
> do I just have to except I'm gyno sensitive or is there something else to try?


 What compound are you running that gives you gyno. Tren and dbol are the two worst.

If it's testosterone, keep the dose at 150-300 mg and dose the other anabolics higher.

Also make sure your nolvadex and AI are 100% legitimate pharma grade. Raloxifene is better at fighting gyno though. A lot of times, guys are running bunk s**t and are wondering what the hell is going on. So keep that in mind.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> EQUIPOISE
> 
> what's you experience with EQ?
> 
> Does it really aromatize?


 It will aromatize, at a much slower rate than testosterone. ( something like 20-30%)

It's not very effective for bodybuilding unless ran at 1+ gram and it takes forever to kick in. Many swear by it for endurance and vascularity though.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Does EQ help healing process?
> 
> I have an osteolysis at the colarbone and i was wondering if EQ could help repairing the bone?


 It might help, there is some research showing that deca may have a beneficial effect in repairing bone and muscle tissue. EQ may have a similar effect.


----------



## ElChapo

Savage Lifter said:


> Thoughts on 500mg test 200mg tren 350mg winstrol per week and 4iu gh ED? Is it worth adding any of the spare anavar, dhb, mast and deca that I have or would it just go to waste?


 Nice stack, add 300-500 mg deca if you want something else in the mix, otherwise looks very solid.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> instead of taking adex eod could I take it all at once say once a week thanks mate


 Yeah, you can take it E7D. Many TRT docs do this with their patients.


----------



## ElChapo

shratus said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's your view on T3 cytomel and carbs refeed for leptin needed or not?


 Carb refeeds are something i am massive fan of. Leptin is the key to fat loss and maintenance. Keeping it high will ensure continous fat loss and eventually being able to maintain that fat loss.

T3 is a nice bonus to keep metabolism running on a cut, as it's conversion from T4 is greatly inhibit in a caloric deficit. Carb refeeds will actually increase natural T3 production from T4 and is one of the many benefits you get from them.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> When taking Yohimbine in a fasted state, did you say you can still have have a cup of coffee within the 4 hours after taking it?
> 
> Ive had a look back but cant seem to find your answer sorry.


 No problem man

You can drink coffee with yohimbine, same time if you like. Just don't take anything that will spike insulin (protein, BCAA, food, juice, etc)

Coffee and tea are fine with yohimbine. No sweetener, creamer, or dairy added though.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> How could it be worse, same drug just 1 fast acting and 1 slow? Yes of coarse bloods would obviously be a good idea.
> 
> I suppose it would make the most sense from a grappling perspective.
> 
> Thats why the heavily muscled ufc fighters like hector lombard and yeol romero gas pretty easyily then


 More muscles requires more oxygen, so when you breath, the oxygen you take in is used up much quicker. The heart needs to work harder, so the entire body can fatigue faster. Some guys are very good at holding a lot of mass and keeping respectable cardiovascular conditioning, others not so much.

Besides the cardio factor, bodybuilders tend to be very stiff/inflexible and slow/uncoordinated. Add to that the cardio issue and it's not ideal for fighting. Grant it, some monsters like Rousimar Palhares built 100% functional muscle, he's just a machine.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just been recommend this fat burner.
> 
> What's your opinion on the profile and the amounts listed - enough to be effective? - In particular the Bioperine Black Pepper Extract.
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> 495mg Neurostim Blend Containing: Caffeine Anhydrous, Octadrine, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine -
> 
> 135mg Incinerate Thermo Complex Containing: Salicin, Higenamine Hydrochloride, Cayenne Extract, Gamma Butyrobetaine Ethyl Ester Hydrochloride Pausinystalia Extract
> 
> 100mg Thyrocharge Containing: Bovine Thyroid, Guggul Lipid PE Extract
> 
> 16mg Calcium (as carbonate)
> 
> 10mg Niacin
> 
> 5mg Vitamin B6
> 
> 5mg Bioperine Black Pepper Extract
> 
> Other ingredients: Gelatin, Inulin (from chicory), Vegetable Stearate


 Garbage, just run yourself a cheap bulk powder caffeine and yohimbine, or EC stack or DNP. You will get x 20 more effect than this crap.

If you see vitamins in a fat burner, throw it in the garbage. Most of the times they are MASSIVELY overpriced. You could buy a 2 year supply of a bulk powder fat burner for the cost of 30 days of these shitty supps.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's your view on sleeping aids on muscle growth. What would be the best to use for insomnia


 If you haven't added cardio and avoided stimulants at night, melatonin helps a lot of people. I am not fan of relying on sleep meds to get sleep. Good sex is usually effective as well. Avoid strenuous cardio 4 hours before sleep too.

If you feel good and function well on 5-6 hours of sleep, you might naturally be a person who needs less sleep. There is a gene for this.


----------



## DC1

ElChapo said:


> No problem man
> 
> You can drink coffee with yohimbine, same time if you like. Just don't take anything that will spike insulin (protein, BCAA, food, juice, etc)
> 
> Coffee and tea are fine with yohimbine. No sweetener, creamer, or dairy added though.


 I've been taking my Yohimbine with a black coffee and some sucralose.

Will the sucralose blunt the yohimbine effect? Haven't seen any studies citing this. Have you something I could read on this mate?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> It might help, there is some research showing that deca may have a beneficial effect in repairing bone and muscle tissue. EQ may have a similar effect.


 Eq give me crazy anxiety even at 1ml / week so i can't use it but it seems to help my shoulder.

Can i replace it with really small dose Deca? and what dose would be usefull for bone health ? 100mg / w? i'm gyno prone too so deca isnt something i wanted to use


----------



## Tricky

What's your view on sibturmine, I've started on dimensions sib 15mg tablet first thing with my espresso but it's doing nothing to blunt my appetite. So I've up it to 22.5mg from today but the same, surely at this dose I should feel it working? I'll try 30mg tomorrow and if nothing I'll bin it.

Does 20mg Superdrol have its place in a cut due to fullness, strength and the fact it kills hunger for many. Thinking 20mg for last 6 weeks of my cut along with 60mcg clen per day


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Having started off my blast and cruise journey two years ago with 500mg test, I didn't like the high test that much, and eventually tried running 150mg test year round and adding in other compounds (tren in particular, and orals) when I blast.
> 
> Although I get on fantastically well with tren in terms of most sides, it does crush my cholestorol, and have seen your recommendations about having this crushed long term.
> 
> Therefore I'm tempted to try deca for
> 
> my winter bulk instead of tren, as I assume deca is nowhere near as harsh on the lipids etc?
> 
> Thinking 150mg test 300mg deca?
> 
> bascially in short I'm asking what you feel safer to run deca vs tren, as, if you confirm what I feel your answer may be, running tren 6-8 months a year is probably not the most wise decision.
> 
> I like the low dosage (compared to most) as I have pretty much been side effect free throughout my whole 2 year blast and cruise keeping it like this!
> 
> Cheers mate @ElChapo


 I would go with 150/600 mg Test/Deca. Yes, deca is less harsh on lipids and CV health.

Try it, you might love it or hate it. Like most compounds, everyone has their preference.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I"ve heard Dbol was 100% sure to give some kind of gyno , even with tamox/ralox .
> 
> Is that true ? can it be reverse fast?
> 
> It's an oral that i'm intersted in but i'm gyno prone so i don't touch it , i don't touch orals


 There is no such thing as 100% in anything in life . No, many run Dbol without any gyno issue. I find it to be one of the worst offenders in terms of gyno risk though, along with tren.

You can reverse gyno quickly with nolvadex or raloxifene.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> yea  but if it can get reverse then it may be ok , but if not it's not worth it ofc


 You can reverse it, but why? Dbol isn't that special.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Why does clen produce such bad cramps??
> 
> I get it really bad sometimes


 There is some evidence that clen can cause potassium inbalance, supplement magnesium/potassium or eat lots of potatoes and bananas.

Otherwise, use other fat burners, they are just as effective. DNP even more so.


----------



## shratus

ElChapo said:


> Carb refeeds are something i am massive fan of. Leptin is the key to fat loss and maintenance. Keeping it high will ensure continous fat loss and eventually being able to maintain that fat loss.
> 
> T3 is a nice bonus to keep metabolism running on a cut, as it's conversion from T4 is greatly inhibit in a caloric deficit. Carb refeeds will actually increase natural T3 production from T4 and is one of the many benefits you get from them.


 Do you think one need a refeed for leptin when T3 cytomel is taken ?

Since t3 keep you metabolism from lowering ?


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Probably be able to reverse it to an extent but never totally get rid of it, without getting the glands removed of coarse


 Gyno can be fully reversed, especially if caught early.


----------



## ElChapo

youarewhatyoueat said:


> You advised gyno would reduce in 6/8 with nolva/ralox... Well I'm coming up to week 7 ( 4 nolva - 3 ralox) and gyno has Defo reduced considerably maybe by 70/80% barely visible...
> 
> I've got 8 weeks left of prep should I carry on taking 60mg ralox ed or maybe half my dose to 30mg ed for duration?...
> 
> Or stop altogether and continue if I notice it growing again? Obviously I want to be taking as less meds as poss, and would like to keep it on hand for when it arises again which I'm sure it will, unless glands are removed.


 Keep taking it at 60 mg through the show and until the gyno is gone. You can even take it for up to 6 months, just that 12 weeks is where you really see results.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> How could it be worse, same drug just 1 fast acting and 1 slow? Yes of coarse bloods would obviously be a good idea.
> 
> I suppose it would make the most sense from a grappling perspective.
> 
> Thats why the heavily muscled ufc fighters like hector lombard and yeol romero gas pretty easyily then


 Yeah, Sean Sherk is jacked too and his stamina is world class.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Can AAS use or SERM/AI use be related to apparition of osteolysis in collarbone ?
> 
> I do have a oesteolysis and i'll maybe have to stop working out for months/years , are raloxifen/letro use dangerous for that?


 AI maybe, SERMS/AAS no.

Low E2 is detrimental to bone health and strength.

Raloxifene was made to treat weak bones, it increase bone density. AAS can also increase bone strength.


----------



## ElChapo

JUICE1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Another one if I can.
> 
> If I'm dieting, as I am now (1600kcal 160g protein), and I take 2-3 days off the gym, would it be detrimental to reduce protein intake and until I my next gym session? My logic being that if there is no muscle repair to be done do I really still require that much protein to maintain? Surely more of that 160g of protein is going to be utilised as energy in lieu of muscle breakdown to repair? Probably worth mentioning I'm on 125mg/wk Test, 200mg/wk Tren and 50mg/day Winstrol.
> 
> If so can I also reduce calorie intake or will that change anything?


 Don't sweat it, 3 days of low protein intake will not lead to any muscle loss, especially on AAS.

Even a whole week off will not affect you negatively, even as a natural lifter.

Take a complete break from counting calories and macros, just enjoy your break. Be sensible, and don't pig out.


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> Why do orals only work for 4-6 weeks?


 They work beyond 4-6 weeks. People tend to limit their times on orals to 4-6 weeks due to fear of liver toxicity.


----------



## ElChapo

JUICE1 said:


> I know a lot of these drugs were designed for AIDS patients to stop muscle wastage so that makes me wonder, surely plain old Testosterone would do the trick? That's what's making me think maybe the RBC increasing effects of Anadrol was another reason for them using that. I should start reading more studies tbf.


 Synthetic steroids were created to do what testosterone does, but better.

They want the muscle/bone/tissue building, appetite increasing effect, without the prostate growth, hair loss, oily skin, etc that comes with it.


----------



## ElChapo

DC1 said:


> I've been taking my Yohimbine with a black coffee and some sucralose.
> 
> Will the sucralose blunt the yohimbine effect? Haven't seen any studies citing this. Have you something I could read on this mate?


 No, you can use sucralose with yohimbine with no negative effect on potency.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Eq give me crazy anxiety even at 1ml / week so i can't use it but it seems to help my shoulder.
> 
> Can i replace it with really small dose Deca? and what dose would be usefull for bone health ? 100mg / w? i'm gyno prone too so deca isnt something i wanted to use


 Try 100-200 mg per week


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> What's your view on sibturmine, I've started on dimensions sib 15mg tablet first thing with my espresso but it's doing nothing to blunt my appetite. So I've up it to 22.5mg from today but the same, surely at this dose I should feel it working? I'll try 30mg tomorrow and if nothing I'll bin it.
> 
> Does 20mg Superdrol have its place in a cut due to fullness, strength and the fact it kills hunger for many. Thinking 20mg for last 6 weeks of my cut along with 60mcg clen per day


 I strongly prefer ephedrine, you get appetite supression, extra fat loss, and energy/intensity for training.

Sdrol is an excellent hormone, not a bad idea.


----------



## ElChapo

shratus said:


> Do you think one need a refeed for leptin when T3 cytomel is taken ?
> 
> Since t3 keep you metabolism from lowering ?


 You should still do refeeds, this will top off your glycogen stores and keep your muscles full, and your energy and mood better.

T3 is not the only thing that gets down regulated from chronically low caloric intake, so refeeds are still something you should do. Taking T3 will not increase Leptin, so you will still feel hungry and like s**t eventually without a refeed.


----------



## ElChapo

Leetflex said:


> What is your opinion of nandrolone and the study of it damaging blood vessels far more than testosterone.
> 
> Is it really that bad for you in say doses below 1g/week.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> http://www.ergo-log.com/nandrotest.html


 I answered this question here:

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/302476-decanpp-this-doesnt-look-good/?do=embed


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

You say DBOL is the worst oral for gyno symptoms however how do you compare Anadrol in terms of gyno? Its said that while the actual profile of Anadrol should in theory not cause gyno it actually can however its not fully known why. This may be because it binds directly to the E2 receptor.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> What compound are you running that gives you gyno. Tren and dbol are the two worst.
> 
> If it's testosterone, keep the dose at 150-300 mg and dose the other anabolics higher.
> 
> Also make sure your nolvadex and AI are 100% legitimate pharma grade. Raloxifene is better at fighting gyno though. A lot of times, guys are running bunk s**t and are wondering what the hell is going on. So keep that in mind.


 I'm on test tren ATM. Was 600/350 but now 450/500

always use pharma for things like adex, nolva etc. You think it's probably tren then? Should I run caber?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I'm on test tren ATM. Was 600/350 but now 450/500
> 
> always use pharma for things like adex, nolva etc. You think it's probably tren then? Should I run caber?


 caber does nothing. It's likely trenbolone if E2 is in range.

Tren can cause gyno, even with zero e2.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

How real are the catabolism effects of t3?

Im planning on 50mcg pharma t3, with a diet of 1750 cals, 200g+ protein and rest carbs and fat. Cardio will take the daily deficit to 1000+

Im going to run 125mg test, 400mg tren and 20mg superdrol.

This is for about 3 weeks only prior to

my holiday. I'm 190lbs like 13% BF.

Should I need to be worried a tall? Cheers mate


----------



## green81

Would my heart be okay if I do 250mg test e EOD for 1 year and avoid high intensity cardio but do a light 30 minute jog 2/3 times a week?

My blood pressure was normal the last time I did 750mg test e a week


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> caber does nothing. It's likely trenbolone if E2 is in range.
> 
> Tren can cause gyno, even with zero e2.


 So just put up with it?

As said it always goes down after cycle just a pain in the arse and something I'd rather not have

Don't know if I've already mentioned this but I'm on 2mg adex a week. Would aromasin make any difference, although harder to get pharma grade?


----------



## SlinMeister

My cut will end next week, lost a ton of fat and now I am ripped as f**k.

Today woke up at 88kg.

Now I will start my bulk in 1 week.

Cals will start at my bw in lbs*15.

C=bw lbs *2

P=bw lbs

F=20% of total cals intake

Usually I will have my wo first thing AM.... Was thinking to shot 3iu Norditropins + 5iu Apidra/Humalog at 6am when I wake up then have my breakfast at 7am I will be in my gym.

Maybe I will shot another 5iu slin here but I don't know if I will be covered by HGH.

At 8:30 I will have my postwo meal.

Which foods will be better to eat in that setting?

Cereals and liotized egg whites since are fast to digest?

Then whole food like chicken broccoli and rice postwo.

On non wo days I will have cardio in the am fasted 30mins to keep my heart in shape.

Here how should I put down macros? Would like to keep prots at same value.


----------



## Tricky

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How real are the catabolism effects of t3?
> 
> Im planning on 50mcg pharma t3, with a diet of 1750 cals, 200g+ protein and rest carbs and fat. Cardio will take the daily deficit to 1000+
> 
> Im going to run 125mg test, 400mg tren and 20mg superdrol.
> 
> This is for about 3 weeks only prior to
> 
> my holiday. I'm 190lbs like 13% BF.
> 
> Should I need to be worried a tall? Cheers mate


 Interested to see his response but based on my experience the catabolic effect is hugely overrated especially at a conservative dose of 50mcg whislt taking a fair amount of aas like you plan to do, added on top of that your protein intake I think you've nothing to worry about.

I'm basing this on the fact in the 5 weeks I've been on t3 at 50mcg, 300mg test per week and protein at 180g min some days up to 220g which is adequate for my 200lbs as protein should be based on Lbm not overall weight. I can say I've lost no muscle in 5 weeks in fact I've added a lbs of lean tissue.

3 weeks seems like a short time to run t3 are you going to continue on holidays and post holiday or just stop before holiday which would see your own production shut down and the excess kcals on holiday meaning you'll gain back anything you've cut the 3 weeks prior?


----------



## Devil

Tricky said:


> Interested to see his response but based on my experience the catabolic effect is hugely overrated especially at a conservative dose of 50mcg whislt taking a fair amount of aas like you plan to do, added on top of that your protein intake I think you've nothing to worry about.
> 
> I'm basing this on the fact in the 5 weeks I've been on t3 at 50mcg, 300mg test per week and protein at 180g min some days up to 220g which is adequate for my 200lbs as protein should be based on Lbm not overall weight. I can say I've lost no muscle in 5 weeks in fact I've added a lbs of lean tissue.
> 
> 3 weeks seems like a short time to run t3 are you going to continue on holidays and post holiday or just stop before holiday which would see your own production shut down and the excess kcals on holiday meaning you'll gain back anything you've cut the 3 weeks prior?


 Yes mate ran 25mcg before noticed nothing bad, I always felt it was overstates but seen few threads on other forums suggesting otherwise!

Will go with what the master

@ElChapo view is

Well I'll be drinking hard everyday and night for a week, maybe some rec's so I'll be running either 25 or at least 12.5mcg everyday

atopping sd day I fly, will be running 500mcg tudca and will take that on hols (small white powder caps...should go through hold/checked luggage okay i hope ha


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How real are the catabolism effects of t3?
> 
> Im planning on 50mcg pharma t3, with a diet of 1750 cals, 200g+ protein and rest carbs and fat. Cardio will take the daily deficit to 1000+
> 
> Im going to run 125mg test, 400mg tren and 20mg superdrol.
> 
> This is for about 3 weeks only prior to
> 
> my holiday. I'm 190lbs like 13% BF.
> 
> Should I need to be worried a tall? Cheers mate


 No, at 50 mcg and with the AAS you will be fine. Use strength as a measure of muscle loss, if you are losing a lot of strength, this is a good indicator.

People get flat on T3 faster if they low carb or keto, so they think they lost muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> Would my heart be okay if I do 250mg test e EOD for 1 year and avoid high intensity cardio but do a light 30 minute jog 2/3 times a week?
> 
> My blood pressure was normal the last time I did 750mg test e a week


 You should be fine, but i can't guarantee your "heart will be okay"

Make sure you get your AI dialed in well, and keep your BP under 140/90.

The longer you are on consecutively, the harder recovery will be if you ever plan on going back for PCT. Keep that in mind, if you are blasting and cruising then it's irrelevant.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> So just put up with it?
> 
> As said it always goes down after cycle just a pain in the arse and something I'd rather not have
> 
> Don't know if I've already mentioned this but I'm on 2mg adex a week. Would aromasin make any difference, although harder to get pharma grade?


 Crashing E2 once gyno is there does nothing, and it will do nothing period if your gyno is from tren ( most likely ).

I would run nolva or ralox until you finish your cycle to stop the growth, then run it after the cycle for 12 weeks or until it's gone.

If it's still growing on nolva and ralox, drop the tren completely or lower the dosage.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> My cut will end next week, lost a ton of fat and now I am ripped as f**k.
> 
> Today woke up at 88kg.
> 
> Now I will start my bulk in 1 week.
> 
> Cals will start at my bw in lbs*15.
> 
> C=bw lbs *2
> 
> P=bw lbs
> 
> F=20% of total cals intake
> 
> Usually I will have my wo first thing AM.... Was thinking to shot 3iu Norditropins + 5iu Apidra/Humalog at 6am when I wake up then have my breakfast at 7am I will be in my gym.
> 
> Maybe I will shot another 5iu slin here but I don't know if I will be covered by HGH.
> 
> At 8:30 I will have my postwo meal.
> 
> Which foods will be better to eat in that setting?
> 
> Cereals and liotized egg whites since are fast to digest?
> 
> Then whole food like chicken broccoli and rice postwo.
> 
> On non wo days I will have cardio in the am fasted 30mins to keep my heart in shape.
> 
> Here how should I put down macros? Would like to keep prots at same value.


 Cereal is great, egg whites will work, but whey protein would be optimal. Cereal+Whey is my favorite post-workout meal.

You want the sugary/fast protein meal post-workout, when the muscles are primed to absorb it and insulin sensitivity is highest. Chicken brocoli rice post workout doesnt make sense from that perspective. That would be a better pre-workout meal.

For bulking, keep fat as low as possible to limit storage as fat.

Get minimum .8 g per lbs of lean mass of protein per day, fill the rest out with carbs.


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

if you would riddle me this please

so I embarked on my first steroid 'cycle' more like continuous use of 300mg per week whilst bulking and cutting letting calories and fat burners dictate the bulk or cut but test remaining at 300mg

i stated 5 weeks ago with adex 0.5mg mon/Thursday. I've had no sex drive the past 3/4 weeks so 2 weeks I dropped to 0.5mg once a week and this last week no AI at all but still no sex drive.

Im switching labs tomorrow to triumph and will keep the dose at 300mg per week. Should I continue with no AI at 300mg and see this new lab helps pick things back up on 300mg? If I get itchy or puffy nips then introduce the adex?

I know I should really get bloods to see what's going on but for now I'm switching to new lab and just curious how to approach the AI or no AI side of things. I've dropped the t3 and dnp so can rule them out currently on just test and clen


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> if you would riddle me this please
> 
> so I embarked on my first steroid 'cycle' more like continuous use of 300mg per week whilst bulking and cutting letting calories and fat burners dictate the bulk or cut but test remaining at 300mg
> 
> i stated 5 weeks ago with adex 0.5mg mon/Thursday. I've had no sex drive the past 3/4 weeks so 2 weeks I dropped to 0.5mg once a week and this last week no AI at all but still no sex drive.
> 
> Im switching labs tomorrow to triumph and will keep the dose at 300mg per week. Should I continue with no AI at 300mg and see this new lab helps pick things back up on 300mg? If I get itchy or puffy nips then introduce the adex?
> 
> I know I should really get bloods to see what's going on but for now I'm switching to new lab and just curious how to approach the AI or no AI side of things. I've dropped the t3 and dnp so can rule them out currently on just test and clen


 You need to wait longer to see the effects of a change in AI levels, first off, E2 levels will take a few weeks to balance out on the new AI dosage and secondly, gene expression will dictate that even with stable E2 levels, the effects will take some time to kick in as well.

This is another reason i recommend lab work every once in a while, so you know your testosterone is legit. There is a lot of underdosed stuff out there because UGLs know most guys won't run labs, and if they get gains, they won't question the labs.

Try no AI for a 6 weeks with the new lab, and GET labs. Then you will see how high your testosterone and E2 are and you can work from there, you are going in blind.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> You need to wait longer to see the effects of a change in AI levels, first off, E2 levels will take a few weeks to balance out on the new AI dosage and secondly, gene expression will dictate that even with stable E2 levels, the effects will take some time to kick in as well.
> 
> This is another reason i recommend lab work every once in a while, so you know your testosterone is legit. There is a lot of underdosed stuff out there because UGLs know most guys won't run labs, and if they get gains, they won't question the labs.
> 
> Try no AI for a 6 weeks with the new lab, and GET labs. Then you will see how high your testosterone and E2 are and you can work from there, you are going in blind.


 Will I be ok on a conservative dose of 300mg with no AI, I'm just paranoid I may develop gyno or something? I will take your advise and run 6 weeks at 300mg with no AI then get bloods 6 weeks in with the new lab to see my values as long as I can't development serious gyno or any other issue from high e2 in those 6 weeks? Sorry for th newb question just suprised I've felt quite lethargic and no sex drive on test for my first time not what I expected so it may be bunk or 1mg adex has been too much or combo of both


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Crashing E2 once gyno is there does nothing, and it will do nothing period if your gyno is from tren ( most likely ).
> 
> I would run nolva or ralox until you finish your cycle to stop the growth, then run it after the cycle for 12 weeks or until it's gone.
> 
> If it's still growing on nolva and ralox, drop the tren completely or lower the dosage.


 Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the help.

What would you suggest for the future? As said after every cycle I've run it goes right back down but then flairs up again whilst on.

Would running nolva from start stop it? If so how much should I increase adex by if I was to run 20mg nolva ed?


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo

this question has probably been asked before but what is the maximum dose of test you would cruise on taking in to consideration health / giving the body a break and keeping muscle tissue

I'm 6' sub 10% bf @ 230lbs btw


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Will I be ok on a conservative dose of 300mg with no AI, I'm just paranoid I may develop gyno or something? I will take your advise and run 6 weeks at 300mg with no AI then get bloods 6 weeks in with the new lab to see my values as long as I can't development serious gyno or any other issue from high e2 in those 6 weeks? Sorry for th newb question just suprised I've felt quite lethargic and no sex drive on test for my first time not what I expected so it may be bunk or 1mg adex has been too much or combo of both


 Yeah, you will likely need no AI or .5 mg adex per week, but we need labwork.

It could possibly be bunk, you just never know. Even UGLs don't know the quality of the powder they are using, they aren't synthesizing it themselves or mass spec.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the help.
> 
> What would you suggest for the future? As said after every cycle I've run it goes right back down but then flairs up again whilst on.
> 
> Would running nolva from start stop it? If so how much should I increase adex by if I was to run 20mg nolva ed?


 Consider lowering tren or eliminating it completely. The minimum i would use is 200 mg, any lower than that and you might as well drop the compound. Find the threshold where it doesnt give you gyno or switch compounds. Otherwise, get used to the flare ups. Some guys can stop the gyno from developing on cycle by taking raloxifene/nolvadex from the start.

Adex is not your problem man, unless it bunk. You problem is tren. Try 200-300 mg next time, you might not get gyno. As for Adex, at 500 mg, you may need anywhere from zero-2 mg depending on how you aromatize. You need to experiment.


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> this question has probably been asked before but what is the maximum dose of test you would cruise on taking in to consideration health / giving the body a break and keeping muscle tissue
> 
> I'm 6' sub 10% bf @ 230lbs btw


 300 mg max for most people, but some guys are sensitive and will get high BP/HCT/E2 on 300 mg.

300 mg will hold gains for most people as long as you keep training and eating right, and it's only slightly higher than TRT.

Guys holding A LOT of muscle will usually run 500 mg cruises, again, most guys don't need this much test. Some guys can hold gains on TRT doses as well.

The shittier your diet and training is post cycle, the more you will need to hold your gains.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Cereal is great, egg whites will work, but whey protein would be optimal. Cereal+Whey is my favorite post-workout meal.
> 
> You want the sugary/fast protein meal post-workout, when the muscles are primed to absorb it and insulin sensitivity is highest. Chicken brocoli rice post workout doesnt make sense from that perspective. That would be a better pre-workout meal.
> 
> For bulking, keep fat as low as possible to limit storage as fat.
> 
> Get minimum .8 g per lbs of lean mass of protein per day, fill the rest out with carbs.


 Since I would like to shoot slin before wo and after (5iu+5iu), HGH 3iu Pre wo.

Double cereal + whey meals would be fine?

On non wo days should I just remove one of those 2 meals?

I use whey hydrolyzed with digestive enzymes and bcaa in it...

Sodium and potassium both at 4g will be enough to prevent spillover?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Since I would like to shoot slin before wo and after (5iu+5iu), HGH 3iu Pre wo.
> 
> Double cereal + whey meals would be fine?
> 
> On non wo days should I just remove one of those 2 meals?
> 
> I use whey hydrolyzed with digestive enzymes and bcaa in it...
> 
> Sodium and potassium both at 4g will be enough to prevent spillover?


 That would be ideal

spillover of what?


----------



## 64rl0

Hi @ElChapo

on a 12 weeks Test E - 500mg pw - 2 shots cycle, how long will i need to wait from last shot to PCT?

14 or 21 days?

I've read this on another forum but not quite sure it's OK to follow.

my pre cycle test level is 735ng/dl, does the below mean that I will need to wait 28 days from last shot to PCT?? is sound a lot...

*For **example** if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible. *

*Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average.*

*Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate. *

*Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)*

*A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg*

*(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)*

*This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days. *

*It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this **case** it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this **point** you can determine YOUR half life.*


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> on a 12 weeks Test E - 500mg pw - 2 shots cycle, how long will i need to wait from last shot to PCT?
> 
> 14 or 21 days?
> 
> I've read this on another forum but not quite sure it's OK to follow.
> 
> my pre cycle test level is 735ng/dl, does the below mean that I will need to wait 28 days from last shot to PCT?? is sound a lot...
> 
> *For **example** if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible. *
> 
> *Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average.*
> 
> *Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate. *
> 
> *Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)*
> 
> *A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg*
> 
> *(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)*
> 
> *This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days. *
> 
> *It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this **case** it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this **point** you can determine YOUR half life.*


 Lmao, way overcomplicated. You can start a week after prop/ace, 2-3 weeks after longer esters.

Use steroidcalc.com if you wanna be more accurate.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> That would be ideal
> 
> spillover of what?


 Carbs spillover.

I read also that insulin needs K and Na to work better... And having both at same level should help...

Usually I never put salt on food.


----------



## John Boy 1985

@ElChapo I recall that you inject with slin pins. Could you please elaborate as im injecting eod and it killing me.

Thanks brother.


----------



## Bull Terrier

Hi El Chapo,

Today I really do need your expert advice! A few weeks ago I had asked your opinion on whether I should go for TRT or else PCT straight after my upcoming cycle (1st time for about 20 years). I'm 43 years old, very nearly 44. Anyway, this time I have bloods to show you as you can see in the pic.

BTW - sorry it's all in Italian, but that's where I live. I think that you can understand it anyway though.

As you can see total T (Testosterone Plasmatico) is very low. I'll be honest - I have no idea how to interpret the free T value (i.e. Testosterone Libero). Is it very low?

My Vitamin D levels are much too low, which is odd considering that I live in sunny South Italy. I will immediately start a high quality Vitamin D supplement. Do you think that my testosterone could be so low due to low Vitamin D?

Considering that my zinc levels are so high (despite no supplementation) I will next check copper levels since zinc can inhibit absorption of the latter.

I'd be very grateful if you could help me in interpreting these results. I also have no idea if my T3 level is ok. Be aware that I'm not on any PEDs at all and haven't taken any for a very long time. My diet is overall excellent as is my overall health and most lifestyle factors.

Because I'm seriously considering TRT I would very much appreciate any input you could give me. Should I try to get TRT immediately or else try to correct Vitamin D and hope that my T levels go up?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jwbs

. Hello,

I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


----------



## Baka

There are different types of gyno , the glandular one which is hard lump under the nipple , and the 'fatty' one that make your chest round and big like boobs.

The glandular one is easy to get rid with ralox + AI , but the fatty seems impossible to get rid of , does it mean that once the fatty breast tissue is here it won't go away ,ever?


----------



## Devil

jwbs said:


> . Hello,
> 
> I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


 You haven't even stated how many calories you're eating?

Anyways, unless it's an absurd amount, the DNP must be severely underdosed/bunk.

Are you getting all the sides etc?


----------



## Tricky

jwbs said:


> . Hello,
> 
> I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


 What brand and dose dnp

same question for t3

whats your maintence

how many kcals below are you


----------



## jwbs

jwbs said:


> . Hello,
> 
> I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


 @ElChapo


----------



## jwbs

Devil said:


> You haven't even stated how many calories you're eating?
> 
> Anyways, unless it's an absurd amount, the DNP must be severely underdosed/bunk.
> 
> Are you getting all the sides etc?


 Under maintenance. DNP isn't bunk. Bought 3 bags from TM. The first bag (bought many months ago, but only used about 3 weeks ago) was slightly stronger than the second bag (second and third bag from a different batch, bought about 1 month ago). Drugs are legit, I've used it before, this is my 4th run, the first 3 were entirely succcessful, but I'm getting way less benefit from this run


----------



## jwbs

Tricky said:


> What brand and dose dnp
> 
> same question for t3
> 
> whats your maintence
> 
> how many kcals below are you


 TM, 375 (250,500,250,500 an so on)

Triumph

Don't know

Enough


----------



## Devil

jwbs said:


> Under maintenance. DNP isn't bunk. Bought 3 bags from TM. The first bag (bought many months ago, but only used about 3 weeks ago) was slightly stronger than the second bag (second and third bag from a different batch, bought about 1 month ago). Drugs are legit, I've used it before, this is my 4th run, the first 3 were entirely succcessful, but I'm getting way less benefit from this run


 Okay mate fair enough, but if you don't know your maintence how do you know you're eating under it?

Anyhow not run DNP yet bro, so will let others try and help


----------



## Tricky

jwbs said:


> TM, 375 (250,500,250,500 an so on)
> 
> Triumph
> 
> Don't know
> 
> Enough


 lol don't know your maintence or how much your eating and can't figure out why your not losing weight. Not sure if serious or just genuine trolling skills level 101


----------



## superdrol

jwbs said:


> TM, 375 (250,500,250,500 an so on)
> 
> Triumph
> 
> Don't know
> 
> Enough


 If your not losing weight your defo not under maintenence if the drugs are good, it's not rocket science, as pointed out if you don't KNOW your maintenence how can you definately be under it?? That makes zero sense!!


----------



## jwbs

Devil said:


> Okay mate fair enough, but if you don't know your maintence how do you know you're eating under it?
> 
> Anyhow not run DNP yet bro, so will let others try and help


 Years of experience mate. Probably about 2500 at this point (I'm eating under 2k)


----------



## Tricky

jwbs said:


> Years of experience mate. Probably about 2500 at this point (I'm eating under 2k)


 So that would put you 3500 under for the week on food alone so your losing 1lb of fat there. Factor in your training and cardio which is increasing the deficit so another 0.5- 1.5lbs approx the the drugs if legit 1-3lbs. So your losing between 3-5lbs a week right?


----------



## Heavyassweights

Tricky said:


> Will I be ok on a conservative dose of 300mg with no AI, I'm just paranoid I may develop gyno or something? I will take your advise and run 6 weeks at 300mg with no AI then get bloods 6 weeks in with the new lab to see my values as long as I can't development serious gyno or any other issue from high e2 in those 6 weeks? Sorry for th newb question just suprised I've felt quite lethargic and no sex drive on test for my first time not what I expected so it may be bunk or 1mg adex has been too much or combo of both


 im on a gram test with no a.i and e2 is on the money

nuff said


----------



## jwbs

Tricky said:


> lol don't know your maintence or how much your eating and can't figure out why your not losing weight. Not sure if serious or just genuine trolling skills level 101


 It's not rocket science and I'm not a fu**ing amateur.

Bfast - 4 weetabix

Lunch - tuna pasta

Dinner - chicken salad

Bed - cottage cheese

Even if we estimate this as 2k (it's not, it's less), i should be burning 3k sedentary with the dnp, and I'm doing 1k cardio daily (so around 1300) plus lifting. I'm under. This is me before the bulk (1 year natty http://imgur.com/HZf9Amt) I'd give myself 7/10 here (on my scale. I know it's about a 2 on the simeon panda scale, but as i say, natty for ages). I'm a lot more muscular now, but also fat as fck.

And I'm not looking for your advice mate. Been reading the dnp posts a lot in preparation for this run and I know you've stated you've done 2 dnp runs and literally nowt else. I already had more successful runs than that under my belt before you even started, despite being troll101, so your advice is utterly worthless to me


----------



## Tricky

Heavyassweights said:


> im on a gram test with no a.i and e2 is on the money
> 
> nuff said


 Which lab is your test? Do you always run no AI? I've only started triumph this week at 300mg and I'm going to continue with no AI to see how things fair out!

I'll get full bloods in 6 weeks to check test levels and e2 amongst other things


----------



## Tricky

jwbs said:


> It's not rocket science and I'm not a fu**ing amateur.
> 
> Bfast - 4 weetabix
> 
> Lunch - tuna pasta
> 
> Dinner - chicken salad
> 
> Bed - cottage cheese
> 
> Even if we estimate this as 2k (it's not, it's less), i should be burning 3k sedentary with the dnp, and I'm doing 1k cardio daily (so around 1300) plus lifting. I'm under. This is me before the bulk (1 year natty http://imgur.com/HZf9Amt) I'd give myself 7/10 here (on my scale. I know it's about a 2 on the simeon panda scale, but as i say, natty for ages). I'm a lot more muscular now, but also fat as fck.
> 
> And I'm not looking for your advice mate. Been reading the dnp posts a lot in preparation for this run and I know you've stated you've done 2 dnp runs and literally nowt else. I already had more successful runs than that under my belt before you even started, despite being troll101, so your advice is utterly worthless to me


 Yea, nice solid non amateur diet right there. One of the best I've seen infact. I've done a lot more than two dnp runs so your grasp of reading is somewhat lacking


----------



## jwbs

Tricky said:


> So that would put you 3500 under for the week on food alone so your losing 1lb of fat there. Factor in your training and cardio which is increasing the deficit so another 0.5- 1.5lbs approx the the drugs if legit 1-3lbs. So your losing between 3-5lbs a week right?


 No. And that's the point. I'm sure the deca floating around in me plus the large daily dose of nolva has something to do with it, hence seeking advice from chapo, not some guy that's wuick on the trigger to claim "lol you dumb fck troll", which is basically what your last reply was.


----------



## Heavyassweights

Tricky said:


> Which lab is your test? Do you always run no AI? I've only started triumph this week at 300mg and I'm going to continue with no AI to see how things fair out!
> 
> I'll get full bloods in 6 weeks to check test levels and e2 amongst other things


 d4net which is legit as bloods confirm

never ran an a.i as never felt the need but have everything on hand just incase. I will be testing e2 again this week so will no if i need to add in anything


----------



## jwbs

Tricky said:


> Yea, nice solid non amateur diet right there. One of the best I've seen infact. I've done a lot more than two dnp runs so your grasp of reading is somewhat lacking


 Like I say, I'm not looking for your input.


----------



## jwbs

superdrol said:


> If your not losing weight your defo not under maintenence if the drugs are good, it's not rocket science, as pointed out if you don't KNOW your maintenence how can you definately be under it?? That makes zero sense!!


 See my other replies please, thx (and I'd bet my house I'm under maintenance)


----------



## TinTin10

Threads in danger of getting hijacked by people that are not @ElChapo , responding to questions aimed at El Chapo.

Not this last particular issue, just been happening more frequently in general by 1 or 2.

Thread is one of the best threads on UKM for ages.....dont ruin it.


----------



## CG88

jwbs said:


> . Hello,
> 
> I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


 Could be a case of just holding water weight that is offsetting the fat loss, if so once you finish the DNP run, the weight will drop off as water retention decreases


----------



## stewedw

Re the dnp question. Drop of for five days, it'll be water weight. Happened to me second time round, same brand, same batch. Like you I was thinking it was anything and everything. I dropped for five days and when I started again I took potassium supplement and a fibre supplement. For me, that kept the bloat and hunger away.

Dnp can be a head fck etc. Good luck


----------



## Tricky

TinTin10 said:


> Threads in danger of getting hijacked by people that are not @ElChapo , responding to questions aimed at El Chapo.
> 
> Not this last particular issue, just been happening more frequently in general by 1 or 2.
> 
> Thread is one of the best threads on UKM for ages.....dont ruin it.


 Pot kettle.


----------



## TinTin10

Tricky said:


> Pot kettle.


 Please quote where ive responded to a question aimed at El Chapo?

Doesnt exist......just the like the 'AMA thread ft Tricky'......

but again......dont derail the thread.


----------



## Devil

TinTin10 said:


> Threads in danger of getting hijacked by people that are not @ElChapo , responding to questions aimed at El Chapo.
> 
> Not this last particular issue, just been happening more frequently in general by 1 or 2.
> 
> Thread is one of the best threads on UKM for ages.....dont ruin it.


 Tbf I was at fault for this...forgot what thread I was in and just replied! Do agree.


----------



## Mully

TinTin10 said:


> Threads in danger of getting hijacked by people that are not @ElChapo , responding to questions aimed at El Chapo.
> 
> Not this last particular issue, just been happening more frequently in general by 1 or 2.
> 
> Thread is one of the best threads on UKM for ages.....dont ruin it.


 TBF some of the questions are stupid/simple. I think hes doing us a great favour by answering a load of questions. Easier stuff I wouldn't want to waste elchapos time on and i do my own research.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Any worry about taking DNP 125-250mg and 25mg amitrpytline

cheers


----------



## 66983

jwbs said:


> . Hello,
> 
> I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


 The lower your weight/bf percentage gets, the less effective DNP becomes.

For example first run this year 20 lb loss in 18 days, the second run 4 weeks later I only lost 7 lbs in 14 days.


----------



## jwbs

Sparkey said:


> The lower your weight/bf percentage gets, the less effective DNP becomes.
> 
> For example first run this year 20 lb loss in 18 days, the second run 4 weeks later I only lost 7 lbs in 14 days.


 Yeah mate I'm aware, thing is I'm pretty sure I have a shitload of fat on me. If you look at the pic I posted that was me about 15 weeks ago, I'm around 13% maybe? At 170. I managed to get to 217 on 14 weeks decatest (by week 12ish iirc) this is a lot for me and i was pretty sure it was over half fat, which I was totally fine with (it would mean I'd gained 20lbs muscle). Around week 12 I started cutting, got down to 210lbs in 3 weeks, then added dnp, and lost only another 10lbs in the next 3 weeks, so down to 200. Not great, but then the scales stopped moving at all! I reckon I need to drop another 10lbs to get back to 13% (at 190lbs this time instead of 170 where I was befote) but it ain't happening, even with the dnp. I'm really just hoping it a load of water and a stall that I will overcome. I'm having 5 days off the dnp from Friday onwards, and dropping calories a little, and upping cardio a little. I'm just kind of annoyed and confused that the dnp is having a far less drastic effect this time, whereas the first 3 runs got me to where I wanted to be so easily


----------



## SlinMeister

Sparkey said:


> The lower your weight/bf percentage gets, the less effective DNP becomes.
> 
> For example first run this year 20 lb loss in 18 days, the second run 4 weeks later I only lost 7 lbs in 14 days.


 Using DNP alone leads to GREAT results for someone with lots of fat.... but when low? It's just a tool, like others...

I would keep stacking items at medium doses:25 T3 250 DNP 10 Yohimbine 2x ECA 20mg GW50516 (w/e) and do more fasted cardio....

But anyway at low BF just 1kg is A LOT!


----------



## AlexH96

@ElChapo What would you say the 'healthiest' absolute minimum age to start anabolic steroids is ?


----------



## jwbs

SlinMeister said:


> Using DNP alone leads to GREAT results for someone with lots of fat.... but when low? It's just a tool, like others...
> 
> I would keep stacking items at medium doses:25 T3 250 DNP 10 Yohimbine 2x ECA 20mg GW50516 (w/e) and do more fasted cardio....
> 
> But anyway at low BF just 1kg is A LOT!


 Yeah I've read about yohimbine on examine so I assume it's legit, but anecdotally (and backed up by examine) it's only effective at bf<10, and I'm nowhere near that yet, but I have bought yohm & clen for when I get there. Also, my weight is back on a downward trend and I'm looking leaner, so my worry has subsided a bit

https://examine.com/supplementshttps://examine.com/supplements/yohimbine/


----------



## Pancake'

Apologies to ask some questions, that's probably been covered and simple.

1. What needle sizes for drawing + pinning, do you recommend for a naturally lean individual.

2. Could a aas virgin, start pinning with a slin pin and if so what sites?

3. What sites, do you recommend and what would be good to rotate? e.g glutes/delts


----------



## JUICE1

@ElChapo

Will taking Valium alongside clen negate the positive effects of clen since they (basically speaking) have opposite effects?


----------



## G

Starz said:


> Apologies to ask some questions, that's probably been covered and simple.
> 
> 1. What needle sizes for drawing + pinning, do you recommend for a naturally lean individual.
> 
> 2. Could a aas virgin, start pinning with a slin pin and if so what sites?
> 
> 3. What sites, do you recommend and what would be good to rotate? e.g glutes/delts


 1. 1.5inch green to draw. 1.25 inch blue for glutes. 1inch orange for quads.

2. I guess but I'm not able to advise.

3. Glutes and then quads if needed for 1st cycle.


----------



## SlinMeister

G said:


> 1. 1.5inch green to draw. 1.25 inch blue for glutes. 1inch orange for quads.
> 
> 2. I guess but I'm not able to advise.
> 
> 3. Glutes and then quads if needed for 1st cycle.


 Glutes always best place.

Legs .... So so you have to find right position.

Delts are ok but you can hit some zones that will give some issues while moving shoulder.... I mean you find them a bit "sleepy"

Pinning with slin pins let you pin even 4ml ed with no problems.

Sometimes I ask to my GF to inject back shoulders 0.5ml each... It acts as SEO haha


----------



## SlinMeister

jwbs said:


> Yeah I've read about yohimbine on examine so I assume it's legit, but anecdotally (and backed up by examine) it's only effective at bf<10, and I'm nowhere near that yet, but I have bought yohm & clen for when I get there. Also, my weight is back on a downward trend and I'm looking leaner, so my worry has subsided a bit
> 
> https://examine.com/supplementshttps://examine.com/supplements/yohimbine/


 No mate don't be fooled by that.... It's like saying that Masteron doesn't work on high bf.... Everything works but you don't see it working clearly like when low% bf...

For example try popping Dbol at 6%bf you will LOVE the look


----------



## hoggig

@ElChapo

Without going into too much detail, I'm looking to increase fertility after a long blast/cruise and conceive with my wife.
Would rather not try a full PCT and kickstart the HPTA as I'll probably continue to run TRT and blast/cruise ongoing.

Timeline

18 months blast cruise.
26th May - last dose of test prop

6th June - Started the following protocol with a view to increasing LH and FSH and mobility.

75IU HMG 2x week for the first 4 weeks.
2000IU HCG 2xWeek
Proviron 150mg ED
Nolva 20mg ED
Cialis 20mg ED

Pharma HGH at 6IU M/W/F This has been consistent over the last 4 months.

14th July bloods and Results are below.

FREE ANDROGEN INDEX (FAI) - 7.62
FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED) (F TEST. (CALC)) - 0.0523 nmol/L
D.H.E.A. SULPHATE (DHEA-S) 5.31 umol/L
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB (SHBG) 43.61 nmol/L
17-BETA OESTRADIOL (OESTRADIOL) 30.5 pmol/L
TESTOSTERONE 3.53 nmol/L

LUTEINISING HORMONE (LH) - 1 IU/L
FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE (FSH) 1.09 IU/L

15th July - amended cycle to introduce test.

150mg Test to increase levels and Libido.
2000IU HCG 2xWeek
Proviron 150mg ED
Nolva 20mg ED
Cialis 20mg ED

After a month of running HMG and HCG, I'd have expected LH and FSH to be higher than they are. It was suggested in another thread that HMG wouldn't be necessary after the 1st month. Should I keep running this?
Any other thoughts and suggestions are welcome to adjust this protocol? I'm certainly not expecting results over night but don't want to power through the sides if they can be improved..


----------



## green81

@ElChapo

I can't inject multiple times a day so I'll be using igf-1 lr3 ED. What dose should I use to be equal to hgh?


----------



## superdrol

hoggig said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm 39 now and already have one child with my wife and had pretty much decided to stick with one which is why I decided to go down the blast/cruise route over the last year. Things change however and my wife and I have decided another is on the cards.
> 
> I ended my blast on the 26 May with my last Jab of test prop after dropping Tren Ace & Masteron the week before.
> 
> After a bit of reading decided on following a Fertility protocol with the view to trying to get the missus pregnant and accepting that I'll remain on TRT dose and blast/cruise when needed longer term.
> 
> Started the following protocol on the 6th June so only a little over a month ago.
> 
> 75IU HMG 2x week for the first 4 weeks.
> 
> 2000IU HCG 2xWeek
> 
> Proviron 150mg ED
> 
> Nolva 20mg ED
> 
> Cialis 20mg ED
> 
> I'm also running pharma HGH at 6IU M/W/F This has been consistent over the last 4 months.
> 
> Over the last few weeks, I've felt a steady decline in my libido which I expected given my previous cycle but thought it'd be worth getting bloods done early to give me some reference. Got blood tests done on the 14th July and Results are below.
> 
> FREE ANDROGEN INDEX (FAI) - 7.62
> FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED) (F TEST. (CALC)) - 0.0523 nmol/L
> D.H.E.A. SULPHATE (DHEA-S) 5.31 umol/L
> SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB (SHBG) 43.61 nmol/L
> 17-BETA OESTRADIOL (OESTRADIOL) 30.5 pmol/L
> TESTOSTERONE 3.53 nmol/L
> 
> LUTEINISING HORMONE (LH) - 1 IU/L
> FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE (FSH) 1.09 IU/L
> 
> The low test didn't come as surprise however my libido hit was starting to wear me down so I started running test Enth (150mg) to pick up the test levels. For 4 weeks I'm also running test prop 50mg M/W/F until the Enth starts to kick in.
> 
> I'm continuing to run HCG at 2000iu 2x Week
> 
> After a month of running HMG and HCG, I'd have expected LH and FSH to be higher than they are. Would I be better off continuing to run HMG for another month?
> 
> Any other thoughts and suggestions are welcome to adjust this protocol? I'm certainly not expecting results over night but don't want to power through the sides if they can be improved..


 I'd put that in a clearer format with timescales as it appears your trying to kickstart your hpta while taking exogenous test?? That will stop anything your taking from starting your bodies natural systems so your wasting your money and never gonna get it to restart, aka you'll stay shut down, you have to decide... feel like s**t and restart which will take time or use gear and never start again?? You can get her pregnant on gear you know?? Lots on here have!!


----------



## green81

Is there an equal dose for igf-1 lr3 vs hgh since IGF-1 is why people use hgh? I can't or atleast don't want to inject 3 times a day so.

If not what dose would you recommend?


----------



## hoggig

superdrol said:


> I'd put that in a clearer format with timescales as it appears your trying to kickstart your hpta while taking exogenous test?? That will stop anything your taking from starting your bodies natural systems so your wasting your money and never gonna get it to restart, aka you'll stay shut down, you have to decide... feel like s**t and restart which will take time or use gear and never start again?? You can get her pregnant on gear you know?? Lots on here have!!


 Cheers Mate, will re-write more clearly. I'm not trying to kickstart the HPTA, rather just increase the LH and FSH levels with HMG, HCG and increase fertility. The original protocols from Herc and Hackski suggested success with the plan which was what I was trying to pursue. Of course, if full restart of the HPTA is the better option then of course I'd look at that as an option.


----------



## superdrol

hoggig said:


> Cheers Mate, will re-write more clearly. I'm not trying to kickstart the HPTA, rather just increase the LH and FSH levels with HMG, HCG and increase fertility. The original protocols from Herc and Hackski suggested success with the plan which was what I was trying to pursue. Of course, if full restart of the HPTA is the better option then of course I'd look at that as an option.


 But they weren't taking exogenous test as far as I know so it's like doing pct during a cycle, it'll never work because of the test being present and your wasting money as far as I know, but I'll stand corrected by @El Chapo and if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected...


----------



## hoggig

superdrol said:


> But they weren't taking exogenous test as far as I know so it's like doing pct during a cycle, it'll never work because of the test being present and your wasting money as far as I know, but I'll stand corrected by @El Chapo and if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected...


 I think, and could be wrong that @Herc ended up adding test back into his cycle to deal with Libido and was successful. My understanding and I'll happily be corrected if I'm wrong is that a low dose of test is manageable as long as the FSL and LH levels are increased. Now, as you said, there is plenty of evidence on here and else where of people getting their partners pregnant on cycle so that could have just been luck too.

I'll take in on the chin if need be and hit a power PCT if that is a better option although an extended PCT doesn't appeal if it's not necessary with other options. And yes, that HMG isn't cheap.

There are a few threads already here I've been looking through, but this was interesting

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/258188-fertility-help/?do=embed


----------



## JDOG.

Filthee said:


> Hey mate - given unusual circumstances (well not so unusual, i dropped and broke 2 vials of Primo). I'm wondering how to structure my last 6 weeks of my cycle (was on 600mg Primo/ 250mg test). I picked up a couple vials of tren ace (never used before).
> 
> Was thinking of reducing the (remaining) primo dosage and adding in some low tren for the next 6 weeks: 400mg Primo, 250mg Test, 175mg Tren.
> 
> Reason for the low tren is because it'll be my first use and because I am susceptible to MBP (I'm demoing RU58841 + Nizoral 2% at the same time here - I know I'm playing with fire but the curiosity took over).
> 
> Should I change the dosages? Was thinking stick with 25mg of tren ace ED for 2 weeks and if I'm not shedding or experiencing sides, up it to 50mg?


 How is the RU58841 going? Can you pm me so it's not hijacking the thread


----------



## Dark Prowler

@ElChapo

At the risk of asking a stupid question...

Would you negate the 5a reductase effects of Finasteride if you ran Masteron? Or would Mast simply do its thing everywhere else apart from the scalp / prostate?

My reason for asking, is because I was thinking about Nolva, which you can take alongside any compounds that aromatase, and it'll help with preventing / reducing gyno, yet still allow the compounds you're running to do what you want them to do.

I know that Nolva is a *selective* estrogen receptor modulator, so perhaps this is one of the areas it differs...

Anyway, any commentary on this would be appreciated.


----------



## nickc300

ElChapo said:


> 300 mg test max will greatly limit water retention. This is genetic though, some guys can push it higher some need it lower before moon face starts to settle in, even with AI.
> 
> Being aesthetic is 50% being lean and 50% and having a good base of muscle w/ proportions that can be optimized through training but are strongly genetic. Drugs will take you to +110% and make the latter two easiest. As a male, maximizing aesthetics will have you in the 6-12% range depending on the look you are going for. Studies show women rate most men's faces as most attractive in the 12% range on average. Some guys need to get lower to get that chiseled look.
> 
> Careful on the GH as it can give some people water retention, 3 iu will do you fine if it's quality. You don't need much for fat loss/health optimization. If you are bulking, go ahead and keep your higher dose with the slin to enhance anabolism, but once you cut and want to maintain, you won't need that much.
> 
> I can't recommend clen all year. Imagine being on the opposite of a beta blocker/BP medication for the rest of your life. The extra stress on your heart and body will shorten lifespan and age you faster. A maintenance dose of 25 mcg-50 mcg T3 is fine year round. *You can add 50 mcg of T4 for extra synergy, some tissues like hair need T4 and you will have shutdown T4 on T3 only.* Let the AAS/T3/diet & exercise keep you lean year round. With the drugs, you won't have to kill yourself but you should still put in the cardio, it's good for your body. I'd rather you cycle DNP for 4 weeks every couple of months if you want to stay lean. This will actually be healthier than running clen year round to stay lean, the choice is yours though.
> 
> Carb cycling is a nice way of keeping muscle pumped from the mini-refeed on WO days. Daily low carb diets will have you flat and feeling like s**t, unless the diet favors you genetically.
> 
> I like the first protocol best, but tren and winny favor me. No other drugs give you more bang for your buck in terms of aesthetics, strength, dryness, vascularity and dry lean tissue gain. You will want to run TUDCA with your winny if going +4 weeks. I would go 300/300/300 Test/Mast/Winny and get CUT. This is the KEY to looking amazing. If you are over 12% body fat, you won't look aesthetic, period. Women lose their mind over this:
> 
> He's borderline cachectic but they drip fountains for it, the keyword is LEAN.
> 
> Drop down to 7% and lean bulk on tren/test/winny, aim for .5 lbs of weight gain per week. You should gain only dry lean tissue and stay lean year round while adding mass. Slower process, but you will look good all the time.


 Can you expand on this for me please mate? What effect does t4 have on hair tissue or the lack of it?

If running t3 and concerned about mpb should you be supplementing with t4 also?

Many thanks mate.


----------



## Whoremoan1

wheres el chapo gone?


----------



## Chelsea

@ElChapo I see a lot of people saying that NPP is far superior to regular Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate), is there any truth or science in this at all?


----------



## Abc987

Chelsea said:


> @ElChapo I see a lot of people saying that NPP is far superior to regular Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate), is there any truth or science in this at all?


 He's done a runner mate probs sick of asking all the questions. A lot silly and repeating himself I suppose!

Ive never heard the above although I always use npp never used deca. Pointless comment really haha


----------



## Chelsea

Abc987 said:


> He's done a runner mate probs sick of asking all the questions. A lot silly and repeating himself I suppose!
> 
> Ive never heard the above although I always use npp never used deca. Pointless comment really haha


 Ahh thats a shame. Dont blame him though.

Hahahaha, ive alwasy thought that at the same dose they would produce the same sides pretty much as they are the same drug just different esters.


----------



## Abc987

Chelsea said:


> Ahh thats a shame. Dont blame him though.
> 
> Hahahaha, ive alwasy thought that at the same dose they would produce the same sides pretty much as they are the same drug just different esters.


 Yeah you say that but I get more sides from tren a they I do from e. Gonna try a again though next cycle as it's been over a year since I last run it.

npp though is a very nice compound!


----------



## Nara

nickc300 said:


> Can you expand on this for me please mate? What effect does t4 have on hair tissue or the lack of it?
> 
> If running t3 and concerned about mpb should you be supplementing with t4 also?
> 
> Many thanks mate.


 Did he just say 300mg of winny? Isn't that way too much?


----------



## superdrol

Nara said:


> Did he just say 300mg of winny? Isn't that way too much?


 That's per week bud (normally it's 350 as in 50mg per day  same as the test and whatever else is per week


----------



## Nara

superdrol said:


> That's per week bud (normally it's 350 as in 50mg per day  same as the test and whatever else is per week


 Silly me :whistling:


----------



## nickc300

Nara said:


> Did he just say 300mg of winny? Isn't that way too much?


 I'm guessing it's weekly


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

Need some advice guys got gyno from last test/Tren cycle even though running aromasin 12.5mg e3d maybe wernt enough or maybe bunk, either way iv now been on letro 2.5mg Ed, Anastrozole 1mg ed and cabaser 0.5mg ed for last 10 days and not really noticed much change other than the pain/irratibility has reduced.... I'm on a cruse dose of 150mg a week should I just keep at it or take something different or maybe knowing my luck all the meds are bunk!!! Lol


----------



## bornagod

JuiceyjayV2 said:


> Need some advice guys got gyno from last test/Tren cycle even though running aromasin 12.5mg e3d maybe wernt enough or maybe bunk, either way iv now been on letro 2.5mg Ed, Anastrozole 1mg ed and cabaser 0.5mg ed for last 10 days and not really noticed much change other than the pain/irratibility has reduced.... I'm on a cruse dose of 150mg a week should I just keep at it or take something different or maybe knowing my luck all the meds are bunk!!! Lol


 I do recall @ElChapo mentioning to use raloxifene to reduce gyno. I think he said for new gyno take for 6 weeks


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

bornagod said:


> I do recall @ElChapo mentioning to use raloxifene to reduce gyno. I think he said for new gyno take for 6 weeks


 Nice one just need to find some lol


----------



## bornagod

JuiceyjayV2 said:


> Nice one just need to find some lol


 60mg per day also. I'm pretty sure it was for 6 weeks but you may want to check that 1


----------



## stewedw

Bump. Is @El Chapo still here all galore @ghost.recon.

Any chance we could start an AMA 4.0 pre Xmas as I'm sure everyone will be starting a mini cut or he beginning of a bulk to take advantage of the festive period. I'm sure the rest of the board would be interested in having them back? Cheers.


----------



## SlinMeister

stewedw said:


> Bump. Is @El Chapo still here all galore @ghost.recon.
> 
> Any chance we could start an AMA 4.0 pre Xmas as I'm sure everyone will be starting a mini cut or he beginning of a bulk to take advantage of the festive period. I'm sure the rest of the board would be interested in having them back? Cheers.


 Too good to be true ;(


----------



## Tricky

SlinMeister said:


> Too good to be true ;(


 I think they are paid by Lorain for a short period to contribute to the forum, increasing traffic and giving some great info. If this was/is the case I wish they would be given a new contract lol


----------



## stewedw

If that's the case then a wee crowd funding excercise could cover it surely? I'd pay to ask and see more. There was easily hundreds of users so a tenner a pop would be gold.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's your view on sleeping aids on muscle growth. What would be the best to use for insomnia


 The benefit of good, restorative sleep on energy levels, training intensity and muscle recovery will outdo any negative effect from the sleep medication.

You can try melatonin, making sure there is no light pollution where you sleep, lots of sex/masturbation, make sure there is some kind of endurance cardio in your routine.

Sometimes tren and high dose androgens will make sleep difficult no matter what, so you may have to involve some potent sleep aides.

Ambien is easy to find and works on the GABA receptors to calm your brain down and put you into rest/digest/parasympathetic mode. There is stronger stuff like trazadone, but that's SSRI and we are start to see bigger side effects. especially from chronic use.


----------



## 31205

ElChapo said:


> The benefit of good, restorative sleep on energy levels, training intensity and muscle recovery will outdo any negative effect from the sleep medication.
> 
> You can try melatonin, making sure there is no light pollution where you sleep, lots of sex/masturbation, make sure there is some kind of endurance cardio in your routine.
> 
> Sometimes tren and high dose androgens will make sleep difficult no matter what, so you may have to involve some potent sleep aides.
> 
> Ambien is easy to find and works on the GABA receptors to calm your brain down and put you into rest/digest/parasympathetic mode. There is stronger stuff like trazadone, but that's SSRI and we are start to see bigger side effects. especially from chronic use.


 He's alive!!! Welcome back.


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> on a 12 weeks Test E - 500mg pw - 2 shots cycle, how long will i need to wait from last shot to PCT?
> 
> 14 or 21 days?
> 
> I've read this on another forum but not quite sure it's OK to follow.
> 
> my pre cycle test level is 735ng/dl, does the below mean that I will need to wait 28 days from last shot to PCT?? is sound a lot...
> 
> *For **example** if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible. *
> 
> *Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average.*
> 
> *Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate. *
> 
> *Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)*
> 
> *A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg*
> 
> *(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)*
> 
> *This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days. *
> 
> *It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this **case** it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this **point** you can determine YOUR half life.*


 3 weeks is enough. You can run HCG until you start taking the clomiphene and nolvadex. This is optional.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> @ElChapo I recall that you inject with slin pins. Could you please elaborate as im injecting eod and it killing me.
> 
> Thanks brother.


 




This is insulin needle injection technique, i recommend it over IM 100% of the time unless volume is an issue. This is another way of getting your wife/SO into injectables if she has needle phobia but has some background with orals.

Pro tip: Testosterone/NPP increase female libido a lot, including sensation and wetness. Typical dose for HRT is 10-20 mg for females. Cycles for bikini and fitness ( my favorite ) are usually in the 50-100 mg per week range. Women in the bodybuilding class with heavy androgenization are taking male doses 500 mg-+grams per week.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> Hi El Chapo,
> 
> Today I really do need your expert advice! A few weeks ago I had asked your opinion on whether I should go for TRT or else PCT straight after my upcoming cycle (1st time for about 20 years). I'm 43 years old, very nearly 44. Anyway, this time I have bloods to show you as you can see in the pic.
> 
> BTW - sorry it's all in Italian, but that's where I live. I think that you can understand it anyway though.
> 
> As you can see total T (Testosterone Plasmatico) is very low. I'll be honest - I have no idea how to interpret the free T value (i.e. Testosterone Libero). Is it very low?
> 
> My Vitamin D levels are much too low, which is odd considering that I live in sunny South Italy. I will immediately start a high quality Vitamin D supplement. Do you think that my testosterone could be so low due to low Vitamin D?
> 
> Considering that my zinc levels are so high (despite no supplementation) I will next check copper levels since zinc can inhibit absorption of the latter.
> 
> I'd be very grateful if you could help me in interpreting these results. I also have no idea if my T3 level is ok. Be aware that I'm not on any PEDs at all and haven't taken any for a very long time. My diet is overall excellent as is my overall health and most lifestyle factors.
> 
> Because I'm seriously considering TRT I would very much appreciate any input you could give me. Should I try to get TRT immediately or else try to correct Vitamin D and hope that my T levels go up?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 144080


 Vitamin D3 might increase testosterone a bit, the optimal level for testosterone is 50 ng/mL.

Interesting that you have free T3 for the thyroid. Do you have other thyroid labs. I know someone that i put on thyroid meds who's testosterone went from 5 to 7 ng/mL into the optimal range.

If you are getting good sleep, having sex regularly, not in extreme stress, eating enough fat and lifting weights, then nothing will really increase it. You Free T3 isn't that great, i would like to see your full thyroid panel.

What are your symptoms?

Also, is your zinc high from supplementation or do you work with metals in your job?


----------



## BULK

@ElChapo welcome back. What's your view on sarms ? Especially mk667 ? Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

jwbs said:


> . Hello,
> 
> I'm having a really hard time losing weight on dnp + t3. It's confusing bcos I've done several runs and always had great success, ie losing 20lb in 30 days (and I wasn't huge, iirc that run took me from 190lbs to 170). The dnp is legit, I've done enough dnp to know. I'm doing more cardio than last time. The only differences I can think of are that I've just come off a long deca/test cycle, and I'm on 40mg nolva daily for mild gyno (been about 5 weeks so far). Could either of these be hindering my weightloss? Also, libido down by about 50%. Is that the nolva? Any advice greatly appreciated, TY.


 Nolva can decrease libido, are you running any AAS at all right now?

Are you keeping track of calories? if you aren't then start. If you are, lower calories by 250.

Note that heavy dieting will cause increased water retention, especially with DNP, so you will still lose a ton of fat but the water will hide the visual effect and weight loss. Once you come off the DNP, incorporate a refeed, or just wait, the water will drop. This is called a woosh.

For further reading on diet induced water retention and "woosh":

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> There are different types of gyno , the glandular one which is hard lump under the nipple , and the 'fatty' one that make your chest round and big like boobs.
> 
> The glandular one is easy to get rid with ralox + AI , but the fatty seems impossible to get rid of , does it mean that once the fatty breast tissue is here it won't go away ,ever?


 The fatty tissue should go away once you get leaner, especially in the right hormonal environment. Remember that women have a hard time losing fat in certain areas due to their hormones, but the fat will go away eventually, especially with the right drugs.

Once you are at 10% or below, you should have no fatty gyno left, especially if E2 is in range, and androgen levels are optimal.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Any worry about taking DNP 125-250mg and 25mg amitrpytline
> 
> cheers


 No interaction that i am aware and with the mechanism of action doesn't seem like it would be an issue.

Do not take yohimbine with it, ever. You may trigger serotonin syndrome.


----------



## ElChapo

jwbs said:


> Yeah mate I'm aware, thing is I'm pretty sure I have a shitload of fat on me. If you look at the pic I posted that was me about 15 weeks ago, I'm around 13% maybe? At 170. I managed to get to 217 on 14 weeks decatest (by week 12ish iirc) this is a lot for me and i was pretty sure it was over half fat, which I was totally fine with (it would mean I'd gained 20lbs muscle). Around week 12 I started cutting, got down to 210lbs in 3 weeks, then added dnp, and lost only another 10lbs in the next 3 weeks, so down to 200. Not great, but then the scales stopped moving at all! I reckon I need to drop another 10lbs to get back to 13% (at 190lbs this time instead of 170 where I was befote) but it ain't happening, even with the dnp. I'm really just hoping it a load of water and a stall that I will overcome. I'm having 5 days off the dnp from Friday onwards, and dropping calories a little, and upping cardio a little. I'm just kind of annoyed and confused that the dnp is having a far less drastic effect this time, whereas the first 3 runs got me to where I wanted to be so easily


 Lower the cals by another 200 daily and just keep cutting. You are likely still burning fat, but water will replace the fat so you will look and weigh the same but in a deficit you will be burning fat, guaranteed. You have lost a lot of fat, so a one week diet break may be in order if you want to continue cutting.

Eating at maintenance for a week will help reset your leptin and metabolism and will likely make you drop the water, especially if you stop the DNP.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> The benefit of good, restorative sleep on energy levels, training intensity and muscle recovery will outdo any negative effect from the sleep medication.
> 
> You can try melatonin, making sure there is no light pollution where you sleep, lots of sex/masturbation, make sure there is some kind of endurance cardio in your routine.
> 
> Sometimes tren and high dose androgens will make sleep difficult no matter what, so you may have to involve some potent sleep aides.
> 
> Ambien is easy to find and works on the GABA receptors to calm your brain down and put you into rest/digest/parasympathetic mode. There is stronger stuff like trazadone, but that's SSRI and we are start to see bigger side effects. especially from chronic use.


 You are a welcome sight, prepare......the flood gates will open.

Also, thanks for the info today about my 23andme, I will log on and try what you suggested.


----------



## ElChapo

AlexH96 said:


> @ElChapo What would you say the 'healthiest' absolute minimum age to start anabolic steroids is ?


 Honestly, the major risk with starting early is closing one's growth plates from estrogenic stimuli from the AAS. Most of the famous body builders, fitness people, instagram famous started around 15-16 years old.

It's an unpopular opinion, but i believe the health risk is minimal if done properly, but HPTA shutdown will happen and most teens will not have the financial resources, experience or diligence to do it properly. There are studies showing some effects on the brain and most know that the frontal cortex is not done developing until 25 years of age for most people. So there may be some risk.


----------



## ElChapo

jwbs said:


> Yeah I've read about yohimbine on examine so I assume it's legit, but anecdotally (and backed up by examine) it's only effective at bf<10, and I'm nowhere near that yet, but I have bought yohm & clen for when I get there. Also, my weight is back on a downward trend and I'm looking leaner, so my worry has subsided a bit
> 
> https://examine.com/supplementshttps://examine.com/supplements/yohimbine/


 Most people don't dose it correctly, but it does work best once you are under 13% body fat. It will still work if you are fatter though. It is especially effective against stubborn fat deposits.

Effective Dosage: 0.2mg per kg of bodyweight


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Apologies to ask some questions, that's probably been covered and simple.
> 
> 1. What needle sizes for drawing + pinning, do you recommend for a naturally lean individual.
> 
> 2. Could a aas virgin, start pinning with a slin pin and if so what sites?
> 
> 3. What sites, do you recommend and what would be good to rotate? e.g glutes/delts


 Drawing:

18 gauge is the fastest, if you are using a 50 mL or larger vial/container, i recommend 21 gauge as 18 gauge will begin to cork the rubber stopper after a while and you may get rubber pieces in your oils. Silicone tops are more resistant to this effect.

Injection:

25 gauge/1 inch is the most versatile in terms of places you can pin, speed of injection and comfort. = versatility

For maximum comfort, hrt/cruising, low-moderate dose cycles: I will always recommend a 30 g, 5/16th inch insulin needle. This gives zero pip, minimal scarring. Volume is limited to 1 mL per shot however.

Sites:

The best sites in my opinion are the lateral delts and ventroglute in terms of comfort and accessibility. Quads are very easy to reach, however, this site has the most nerves and blood vessels and the risk of PIP is much higher since the legs are the muscle we use the most.

Ventroglute has almost no nerves and can hold 3-5 mL and easy to reach unless you have trouble wiping your own ass (been there/done that).

My other favorite site is the pecs, easy to access but you need some decent pec development to use it effectively. Not really for beginners.


----------



## ElChapo

JUICE1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Will taking Valium alongside clen negate the positive effects of clen since they (basically speaking) have opposite effects?


 Valium may reduce the anxiogenic effects of clen and other stimulants, but will not reduce the effect on fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Glutes always best place.
> 
> Legs .... So so you have to find right position.
> 
> Delts are ok but you can hit some zones that will give some issues while moving shoulder.... I mean you find them a bit "sleepy"
> 
> Pinning with slin pins let you pin even 4ml ed with no problems.
> 
> Sometimes I ask to my GF to inject back shoulders 0.5ml each... It acts as SEO haha


 I don't recommend glutes due to risk of pinning the sciatic nerve and many bodybuilders have issues reaching it comfortably for pinning. The ventroglute is superior. It is found close to where your front pockets would be on your pants. Comfort and convenience.


----------



## ElChapo

hoggig said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Without going into too much detail, I'm looking to increase fertility after a long blast/cruise and conceive with my wife.
> Would rather not try a full PCT and kickstart the HPTA as I'll probably continue to run TRT and blast/cruise ongoing.
> 
> Timeline
> 
> 18 months blast cruise.
> 26th May - last dose of test prop
> 
> 6th June - Started the following protocol with a view to increasing LH and FSH and mobility.
> 
> 75IU HMG 2x week for the first 4 weeks.
> 2000IU HCG 2xWeek
> Proviron 150mg ED
> Nolva 20mg ED
> Cialis 20mg ED
> 
> Pharma HGH at 6IU M/W/F This has been consistent over the last 4 months.
> 
> 14th July bloods and Results are below.
> 
> FREE ANDROGEN INDEX (FAI) - 7.62
> FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED) (F TEST. (CALC)) - 0.0523 nmol/L
> D.H.E.A. SULPHATE (DHEA-S) 5.31 umol/L
> SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB (SHBG) 43.61 nmol/L
> 17-BETA OESTRADIOL (OESTRADIOL) 30.5 pmol/L
> TESTOSTERONE 3.53 nmol/L
> 
> LUTEINISING HORMONE (LH) - 1 IU/L
> FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE (FSH) 1.09 IU/L
> 
> 15th July - amended cycle to introduce test.
> 
> 150mg Test to increase levels and Libido.
> 2000IU HCG 2xWeek
> Proviron 150mg ED
> Nolva 20mg ED
> Cialis 20mg ED
> 
> After a month of running HMG and HCG, I'd have expected LH and FSH to be higher than they are. It was suggested in another thread that HMG wouldn't be necessary after the 1st month. Should I keep running this?
> Any other thoughts and suggestions are welcome to adjust this protocol? I'm certainly not expecting results over night but don't want to power through the sides if they can be improved..


 Clomid is better than nolva at boosting sperm count and fertility, nolva is more effective for gyno prevention.

Run the HMG for as long as you can, the longer the better. I knocked up my GF on high dose tren, and bostin loyd is having a child, so there is hope for everyone. ( he has a video on youtube with his protocol if you want to take a look)

Don't try to cum inside your partner every day, you want to time intercourse with her ovulation/fertile days. She needs to get an app to track her cycle so that you guys try to conceive on those optimal days. This is maximize the potency of your sperm. Daily ejaculation will not maximize your chances. "saving up" your sperm will actually work better.

Also make sure you don't have any varicoceles ( big veins in your balls/ especially the left side), and supplement zinc 30-50 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I can't inject multiple times a day so I'll be using igf-1 lr3 ED. What dose should I use to be equal to hgh?


 Optimal dose is 50 mg, after that, your results will be 90% diet/training/rest/genetics/AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> Is there an equal dose for igf-1 lr3 vs hgh since IGF-1 is why people use hgh? I can't or atleast don't want to inject 3 times a day so.
> 
> If not what dose would you recommend?


 You're best bet is to find a decent generic GH supplier and test it out with blood work if money is an issue. IGF analogues can be hit or miss and maybe as faked as GH or worse.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I'd put that in a clearer format with timescales as it appears your trying to kickstart your hpta while taking exogenous test?? That will stop anything your taking from starting your bodies natural systems so your wasting your money and never gonna get it to restart, aka you'll stay shut down, you have to decide... feel like s**t and restart which will take time or use gear and never start again?? You can get her pregnant on gear you know?? Lots on here have!!


 You can still maintain fertility on TRT dosages, there are some studies showing HCG+TRT preserving fertility. Some will impregnate even on 19-nors, which are at least x 3 more suppressive to the HPTA than testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

hoggig said:


> Cheers Mate, will re-write more clearly. I'm not trying to kickstart the HPTA, rather just increase the LH and FSH levels with HMG, HCG and increase fertility. The original protocols from Herc and Hackski suggested success with the plan which was what I was trying to pursue. Of course, if full restart of the HPTA is the better option then of course I'd look at that as an option.


 You would get increased fertility by dropping the testosterone, but quality of life/energy/libido may take a hit, this might not be worth it for many people.


----------



## ElChapo

Dark Prowler said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> At the risk of asking a stupid question...
> 
> Would you negate the 5a reductase effects of Finasteride if you ran Masteron? Or would Mast simply do its thing everywhere else apart from the scalp / prostate?
> 
> My reason for asking, is because I was thinking about Nolva, which you can take alongside any compounds that aromatase, and it'll help with preventing / reducing gyno, yet still allow the compounds you're running to do what you want them to do.
> 
> I know that Nolva is a *selective* estrogen receptor modulator, so perhaps this is one of the areas it differs...
> 
> Anyway, any commentary on this would be appreciated.


 Yes, finasteride only inhibits the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. It doesnt nothing to DHT itself, only prevents it from being made. If you were to inject DHT/masteron, finasteride will have ZERO effect on it. It only works on stopping 5-alpha reductase. Just like arimidex/letrozole will do nothing if you are injecting estradiol, but will block conversion.

Exactly right, nolvadex blocks the receptor, so it can block the effect of E2 in specific areas. Ideally, we would have a SARM that would block androgens from binding to scalp and prostate while leaving androgen receptors in tact in the brain, muscle, etc.

Your best bet is to use a topical/local androgen blocker like nizoral or RU.


----------



## ElChapo

nickc300 said:


> Can you expand on this for me please mate? What effect does t4 have on hair tissue or the lack of it?
> 
> If running t3 and concerned about mpb should you be supplementing with t4 also?
> 
> Many thanks mate.


 It's complex, T4 and T3 are important for different phases of hair follicle growth, anagen/telogen. I have noticed increased hair quality in patients supplementing thyroid hormones and increased hair thickness (including in the temples/male patter areas).

If hairloss/MPB is a concern, i would make sure your thyroid hormone levels are optimal.


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> @ElChapo I see a lot of people saying that NPP is far superior to regular Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate), is there any truth or science in this at all?


 It is what test prop is to enanthate. Faster activation, quicker clearance time, more hormone per mg.

Anecdotally, some will tell you they get less water retention same as test prop. Other wise, it's the same exact hormone.

I do recommend NPP if anyone wants to try deca for the first time, it will clear much faster and you will see and feel it much quicker. Deca is something i would save for higher dosed cycles, crusing, etc. It's also a good intermediate/advanced AAS for females once they want to expand beyond anavar/winstrol.


----------



## ElChapo

JuiceyjayV2 said:


> Need some advice guys got gyno from last test/Tren cycle even though running aromasin 12.5mg e3d maybe wernt enough or maybe bunk, either way iv now been on letro 2.5mg Ed, Anastrozole 1mg ed and cabaser 0.5mg ed for last 10 days and not really noticed much change other than the pain/irratibility has reduced.... I'm on a cruse dose of 150mg a week should I just keep at it or take something different or maybe knowing my luck all the meds are bunk!!! Lol


 Tren gyno can happen regardless of AI or even testosterone usage. It is independent of E2 levels.

Are you cruising on test only @ 150 mg? If so, run 60-120 mg raloxifene, the gyno should be mostly gone by 8 weeks, especially if it's fresh and small. More stubborn gyno may take up to 6 months, but raloxifene will work in most cases.

AI and dopamine agonists(caber/prami) will do nothing for tren gyno. You need raloxifene or nolvadex. Ralox is more effective.


----------



## superdrol

@El Chapo welcome back!  :thumb :beer:


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> @ElChapo welcome back. What's your view on sarms ? Especially mk667 ? Cheers


 I'm not huge on SARMs, everything we need to maximize performance and physique was already there before them. There's still not a lot of research or user experience either.


----------



## ElChapo

ElChapo said:


> I'm not huge on SARMs, everything we need to maximize performance and physique was already there before them. There's still not a lot of research or user experience either.


 https://legionathletics.com/sarms/

Generally, my opinion on SARMs^. They might have potential, but i'm on the fence and don't see their use over everything else out there. ( DNP, testosterone, GH/insulin, winstol/tren, etc).

The SARMs can still supress your HPTA, and we are not sure how well the GH analogues translate to actually gains/performance increases.


----------



## Pancake'

Glad to see you back,

Why are Bodybuilders really travelling to Kuwait?


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> Tren gyno can happen regardless of AI or even testosterone usage. It is independent of E2 levels.
> 
> Are you cruising on test only @ 150 mg? If so, run 60-120 mg raloxifene, the gyno should be mostly gone by 8 weeks, especially if it's fresh and small. More stubborn gyno may take up to 6 months, but raloxifene will work in most cases.
> 
> AI and dopamine agonists(caber/prami) will do nothing for tren gyno. You need raloxifene or nolvadex. Ralox is more effective.


 Whenever I blast I always use a SERM, I'll also run an AI if using high amounts of aromatising AAS.

SERM's have a positive effect on lipids where AI's have a negative effect, SERM's are cheap too.

Also, if I screw up my exemestane dosage the SERM will stop me developing gyno, so running a SERM is a no brainier for me.

19nor's being progestins have an effect on progesterone receptors that we don't fully understand, I've read from several sources that elevated progesterone inhibits prolactin.

If progesteone is kept under control by using an AI to keep E2 in range how does tren gyno happen? How are some users reporting 'prolactin induced' gyno?

If running trenbolone on its own how is gyno even possible, is purely down to an increase in progesterone as it's a progestin?

Welcome back my friend.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> Whenever I blast I always use a SERM, I'll also run an AI if using high amounts of aromatising AAS.
> 
> SERM's have a positive effect on lipids where AI's have a negative effect, SERM's are cheap too.
> 
> Also, if I screw up my exemestane dosage the SERM will stop me developing gyno, so running a SERM is a no brainier for me.
> 
> 19nor's being progestins have an effect on progesterone receptors that we don't fully understand, I've read from several sources that elevated progesterone inhibits prolactin.
> 
> If progesteone is kept under control by using an AI to keep E2 in range how does tren gyno happen? How are some users reporting 'prolactin induced' gyno?
> 
> If running trenbolone on its own how is gyno even possible, is purely down to an increase in progesterone as it's a progestin?
> 
> Welcome back my friend.


 It's not the prolactin, it appears that tren is able to exert androgenic, progestogenic and estrogenic effects as well as enhancing the action of IGF-1.

Most people don't get an increase in prolactin from trenbolone.

I have had tren gyno flare up on tren only experiment. Reversed with raloxifene.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo said:


> It's not the prolactin, it appears that tren is able to exert androgenic, progestogenic and estrogenic effects as well as enhancing the action of IGF-1.
> 
> Most people don't get an increase in prolactin from trenbolone.
> 
> I have had tren gyno flare up on tren only experiment. Reversed with raloxifene.


 That's been my experience also, any kind of gyno flare ups and a SERM always reduced it in time.


----------



## ElChapo

I eoul



Starz said:


> Glad to see you back,
> 
> Why are Bodybuilders really travelling to Kuwait?


 http://248am.com/mark/sports/does-kuwait-produce-better-bodybuilders-than-america/

I would think its a similar phenomenon as when men travel to thailand to train muay thai or brazil for Jiujitsu. The environment and atmosphere to focus on one goal, and resources. I would think.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> I eoul
> 
> http://248am.com/mark/sports/does-kuwait-produce-better-bodybuilders-than-america/
> 
> I would think its a similar phenomenon as when men travel to thailand to train muay thai or brazil for Jiujitsu. The environment and atmosphere to focus on one goal, and resources. I would think.


 Someone suggested they had myostatin inhibitors and that's why guys who were previously stacked but gained very little over a year could go to Kuwait and oxygen gym then gain basically like a first cycle again... personally I see it the same as you, train harder and differently and make steps that way!

but as an aside are myostatin inhibitors available yet? Heard they use localised ones for wasted muscles in tests??


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Someone suggested they had myostatin inhibitors and that's why guys who were previously stacked but gained very little over a year could go to Kuwait and oxygen gym then gain basically like a first cycle again... personally I see it the same as you, train harder and differently and make steps that way!
> 
> but as an aside are myostatin inhibitors available yet? Heard they use localised ones for wasted muscles in tests??


 There are some rumours/claims that they are able to edit DNA to inhibit myostatin. I havent seen any definitive stuff yet.


----------



## Malin

Bulking on tren - I'm thinking either 150 test e + 500 tren e /w or 500 test e + 500 tren e /w

would there be a major difference in size or/and strength between these two?


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo I want to start using 5mg daily of Cialis as it helps BP and prostrate, as well because every time I use Deca, regardless of the test amount I get not exactly deca dick but it gets tough to keep it hard for long sessions (I use caber for prolactin and aromasin as an AI anyway)

So my question is, I read that Cialis can cause eye vision problems, even at that dosages? What are the odds?


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Bulking on tren - I'm thinking either 150 test e + 500 tren e /w or 500 test e + 500 tren e /w
> 
> would there be a major difference in size or/and strength between these two?


 More strength/size/side effects from 500/500 mg.

Low test would yield dryer gains, good strength and would be easier to manage side effects.

Some guys actually feel better with high test with their tren though, so you will have to experiment and find out how you respond.


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo I want to start using 5mg daily of Cialis as it helps BP and prostrate, as well because every time I use Deca, regardless of the test amount I get not exactly deca dick but it gets tough to keep it hard for long sessions (I use caber for prolactin and aromasin as an AI anyway)
> 
> So my question is, I read that Cialis can cause eye vision problems, even at that dosages? What are the odds?


 Unlikely, this is an issue with viagra where some individuals get a blue tinge to their vision. Cialis is better at targeting PDE-5, the enzyme that breaks down nitric oxide in the corpus cavernosum. Viagra tends to inhibit some other PDE enzymes that can also affect vision and cause other side effects.

5 mg is a very mild dose of cialis, the most common sides are stuffy nose, headache and gastric reflux. Viagra/cialis will also improve cardiovascular performance at high altitudes.

It will likely not help your BP at all at that dose, but it does make urine flow easier and has been shown to reduce prostate inflammation and vascular damage.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> Unlikely, this is an issue with viagra where some individuals get a blue tinge to their vision. Cialis is better at targeting PDE-5, the enzyme that breaks down nitric oxide in the corpus cavernosum. Viagra tends to inhibit some other PDE enzymes that can also affect vision and cause other side effects.
> 
> 5 mg is a very mild dose of cialis, the most common sides are stuffy nose, headache and gastric reflux. Viagra/cialis will also improve cardiovascular performance at high altitudes.
> 
> It will likely not help your BP at all at that dose, but it does make urine flow easier and has been shown to reduce prostate inflammation and vascular damage.


 10mg a day would be more appropriate for include the BP in the positives?


----------



## bornagod

Ah good to see you back @ElChapo

Hopefully your return will be permanent


----------



## Jonk891

@El Chapo

I managed to recover from my last cycle fine with no clomid or nolva my bloods look great and I feel good I put that down to using 1000iu a week hcg through the cycle.

I planned my next cycle to be 400mg test cyp per week and 100mg var per day for 8 weeks I've now changed my mind and just want to go with 200mg test cyp e3d with aromasin half a tab e3d again with 1000iu hcg through the whole cycle...what do you think of this


----------



## bornagod

Afternoon mate. I dont know whether you remember or not, but a while i go i asked you about could the shortness off breath i was experiencing be down to high hct. It turned out it was as my hct was at 50% and aftet a blood let, the sysptoms went.

Now experiencing the shortness of breath again, and bloods (through medicheck) show hct is at 51. If i was to go to the gp and show them the results and he/she decided they wanted to invesdigate further would they know i was supplementing with exogenous testosterone or not, or would i likely need to either stop/lower the test dose. And id rather them not know i was taking aas, so what would best coarse of action be?

Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I managed to recover from my last cycle fine with no clomid or nolva my bloods look great and I feel good I put that down to using 1000iu a week hcg through the cycle.
> 
> I planned my next cycle to be 400mg test cyp per week and 100mg var per day for 8 weeks I've now changed my mind and just want to go with 200mg test cyp e3d with aromasin half a tab e3d again with 1000iu hcg through the whole cycle...what do you think of this


 The var cycle will be a lot more effective and it's an oral, so you won't have higher pinning frequency or volume. End of the day, it's you training and diet that will dictate how well your cycle goes, but the anavar will potential grow a lot more lean tissue.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Afternoon mate. I dont know whether you remember or not, but a while i go i asked you about could the shortness off breath i was experiencing be down to high hct. It turned out it was as my hct was at 50% and aftet a blood let, the sysptoms went.
> 
> Now experiencing the shortness of breath again, and bloods (through medicheck) show hct is at 51. If i was to go to the gp and show them the results and he/she decided they wanted to invesdigate further would they know i was supplementing with exogenous testosterone or not, or would i likely need to either stop/lower the test dose. And id rather them not know i was taking aas, so what would best coarse of action be?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Glad we got to the bottom of it, a donation should drop it by 2-3% on average.

If the doc is saavy and you have more muscle than average or look like an AAS user, he might suspect it. It won't matter as long as you deny it, he can't force you to run bloods for testosterone or put anything down.

Here in the states, we have to wait 8 weeks between each donation, some hardcore people will give themselves phlebotomies at home (not recommended).

Not sure if a doc would give you a script for phlebotomy with 51% hematocrit since it's only slightly out of range. Did you donate blood the last time or get a script from the MD?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Glad we got to the bottom of it, a donation should drop it by 2-3% on average.
> 
> If the doc is saavy and you have more muscle than average or look like an AAS user, he might suspect it. It won't matter as long as you deny it, he can't force you to run bloods for testosterone or put anything down.
> 
> Here in the states, we have to wait 8 weeks between each donation, some hardcore people will give themselves phlebotomies at home (not recommended).
> 
> Not sure if a doc would give you a script for phlebotomy with 51% hematocrit since it's only slightly out of range. Did you donate blood the last time or get a script from the MD?


 Ye donated blood and it basically stopped in a day or 2. We can only let every 12 weeks her in the uk. I have done it myself previously also. But to let myself every time will just be a ball ache.

Nah wouldn't say i was overly muscular for them to suspect.

I was thinking, as i went to the docs regarding the shortness of breath last time, if was to go back and say its the same again and it went after giving blood they might monitor it.

Surely if i hadnt given blood then my hct could quite easily have been more by now, possibly in the high 50's possibly in the 60's?


----------



## Panda11

@ElChapo I've heard about microdosing MT-2 for the purpose of increasing insulin sensitivity. I've experimented with injecting MT-2 pre-bed and noticed an increase in insulin sensitvity. Do you have experience or heard about this? What would be the recommended protocol/dosing for this purpose?


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Ye donated blood and it basically stopped in a day or 2. We can only let every 12 weeks her in the uk. I have done it myself previously also. But to let myself every time will just be a ball ache.
> 
> Nah wouldn't say i was overly muscular for them to suspect.
> 
> I was thinking, as i went to the docs regarding the shortness of breath last time, if was to go back and say its the same again and it went after giving blood they might monitor it.
> 
> Surely if i hadnt given blood then my hct could quite easily have been more by now, possibly in the high 50's possibly in the 60's?


 Maybe it or it may have stabilized up there. Donating blood stimulates blood cell production, so it might keep yoyoing for a while but eventually people get it under control.


----------



## ElChapo

Panda11 said:


> @ElChapo I've heard about microdosing MT-2 for the purpose of increasing insulin sensitivity. I've experimented with injecting MT-2 pre-bed and noticed an increase in insulin sensitvity. Do you have experience or heard about this? What would be the recommended protocol/dosing for this purpose?


 aerobic exercise or metformin would be a lot more effective for this purpose. I wouldn't bother. Even viagra and cialis have shown some potential in this area, i would just chalk it up as a bonus effect.

There's more about it here :

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2359-39972015000500391


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo Hey mate welcome back.

Whats your opinion on longer low dose blasts

Ive been on 125mg test 300mg tren e and 25mcg t3 for about 4.5 months now, but my bloods are actually all in range (was planning on a 10-12 week cruise now).

Making the best progress I ever have, feel great, have 0 sides except some night sweats.

Would you still come off and cruise? So tempted to just keep going until my bloods get bad, I feel like crap or whatever.

I was gunna cruise then blast 125mg test 300mg tren e and 100mg anavsr in the spring...tempted to just run through all the way and just add in anavar in due course.

thanks mate


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> The var cycle will be a lot more effective and it's an oral, so you won't have higher pinning frequency or volume. End of the day, it's you training and diet that will dictate how well your cycle goes, but the anavar will potential grow a lot more lean tissue.


 So you would say it would be better to go with 400mg cyp a week with 100mg var instead on 200mg cyp every 3 days by itself


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Maybe it or it may have stabilized up there. Donating blood stimulates blood cell production, so it might keep yoyoing for a while but eventually people get it under control.


 Ok so if that was the case then great.

But what if for arguments sake it didnt and i went to the gp and mentioned all of the above we have been speaking of and wants to do blood test to rule out polycythemia. Would testosterone levels be checked to rule (secondary polycythemia due to steroid use) that out even if the doctor had no idea about aas use?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo Hey mate welcome back.
> 
> Whats your opinion on longer low dose blasts
> 
> Ive been on 125mg test 300mg tren e and 25mcg t3 for about 4.5 months now, but my bloods are actually all in range (was planning on a 10-12 week cruise now).
> 
> Making the best progress I ever have, feel great, have 0 sides except some night sweats.
> 
> Would you still come off and cruise? So tempted to just keep going until my bloods get bad, I feel like crap or whatever.
> 
> I was gunna cruise then blast 125mg test 300mg tren e and 100mg anavsr in the spring...tempted to just run through all the way and just add in anavar in due course.
> 
> thanks mate


 Up to you, keep milking the gains. Your body can take a lot of punishment and people have done worse to themselves.

I would probably set a time limit instead of going indefinitely or set a goal that i want to hit before i stop, i wouldn't wait until you feel like s**t. For instance, "once i get my bench press to 315 x 10 or i gain 30 lbs, i will come off and maintain on a cruise". That way you will leave the cycle satisfied before you take a break.

Otherwise, you are proving what i always like to say, diet/training/rest/genetics are what dictates successful cycles. I know MANY who abuse tren, over a gram, and they don't look like they lift.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Ok so if that was the case then great.
> 
> But what if for arguments sake it didnt and i went to the gp and mentioned all of the above we have been speaking of and wants to do blood test to rule out polycythemia. Would testosterone levels be checked to rule (secondary polycythemia due to steroid use) that out even if the doctor had no idea about aas use?


 That would not be standard medical procedure, 95% of doctors would not check for testosterone levels.

You can get high hematocrit from things as simple as smoking, sleep apnea, etc. Testosterone is pretty much the last thing on his mind, unless he treats patients and has a suspicion.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> So you would say it would be better to go with 400mg cyp a week with 100mg var instead on 200mg cyp every 3 days by itself


 Of course


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Up to you, keep milking the gains. Your body can take a lot of punishment and people have done worse to themselves.
> 
> I would probably set a time limit instead of going indefinitely or set a goal that i want to hit before i stop, i wouldn't wait until you feel like s**t. For instance, "once i get my bench press to 315 x 10 or i gain 30 lbs, i will come off and maintain on a cruise". That way you will leave the cycle satisfied before you take a break.
> 
> Otherwise, you are proving what i always like to say, diet/training/rest/genetics are what dictates successful cycles. I know MANY who abuse tren, over a gram, and they don't look like they lift.


 Thanks mate.

I don't use reccies, eat healthy and don't drink often (once a fortnight maybe).

I was planning on competing in 2018/2019 and also have a few social media pages which are literally just taking off (thousands plus of followers). So whilst all these cogs are turning and im milking it, coming onto a cruise would potentially grind them to a halt!

So with these two goals in mind, and feeling OK, I might stick it out until next summer, long cruise over next winter, then a prep into 2019 show  .


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> That would not be standard medical procedure, 95% of doctors would not check for testosterone levels.
> 
> You can get high hematocrit from things as simple as smoking, sleep apnea, etc. Testosterone is pretty much the last thing on his mind, unless he treats patients and has a suspicion.


 Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Thunk ill go see the gp too see what they say and go from there.

Thanks again elchapo your a credit to this forum


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

What causes the trauma in terms of scar tissue when pinning, the needle, the volume of oil Injected or both.


----------



## 31205

Devil said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> I don't use reccies, eat healthy and don't drink often (once a fortnight maybe).
> 
> I was planning on competing in 2018/2019 and also have a few social media pages which are literally just taking off (thousands plus of followers). So whilst all these cogs are turning and im milking it, coming onto a cruise would potentially grind them to a halt!
> 
> So with these two goals in mind, and feeling OK, I might stick it out until next summer, long cruise over next winter, then a prep into 2019 show  .


 Link to social media pages?


----------



## Devil

sen said:


> Link to social media pages?


 No chance haha. UKM is where my anonymous enjoyment and participation is.

So unless you want me to disappear from here... :lol:


----------



## Malin

ElChapo said:


> More strength/size/side effects from 500/500 mg.
> 
> Low test would yield dryer gains, good strength and would be easier to manage side effects.
> 
> Some guys actually feel better with high test with their tren though, so you will have to experiment and find out how you respond.


 Cheers mate, I'm actually just finishing low test and high tren cycle, quite happy with the results both size and strength wise with virtually no sides, but I'm tempted to try high test high tren in a couple of months.

Out of curiosity, did you run both low and high test with high tren?


----------



## Sphinkter

@ElChapo what do you think of running no less than 500mg test for around a year, with 10-12 week bulk blasts of npp at 300-400mg followed by 6-8 weeks cutting on just 500mg test with bloods every 3 months. Needlessly wreckless? My bloods have never came back with anything out of range or even borderline (except e2) and i was on 500mg test for about 4 months and 250mg test for 8, been back on 500mg since august and my bloods were spot on except e2 a bit high. BP can climb to about 140/60 if im careless but 2 high strength garlic tabs, beetroot and cialis keeps it down around 120/60. More concerned about things like heart enlargement and/or damage?


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> @ElChapo what do you think of running no less than 500mg test for around a year, with 10-12 week bulk blasts of npp at 300-400mg followed by 6-8 weeks cutting on just 500mg test with bloods every 3 months. Needlessly wreckless? My bloods have never came back with anything out of range or even borderline (except e2) and i was on 500mg test for about 4 months and 250mg test for 8, been back on 500mg since august and my bloods were spot on except e2 a bit high. BP can climb to about 140/60 if im careless but 2 high strength garlic tabs, beetroot and cialis keeps it down around 120/60. More concerned about things like heart enlargement and/or damage?


 Certain things wont be seen on blood work like arterial calcification, prostate morphology, blood clot formation, etc.

If you keep your labs and BP in tight range and perform regular cardiovascular exercise, stay lean, etc you will limit any long term risk.

There are worse things you could do for your health like smoking, being overweight or sedentary.

Usually 300 mg will perserve muscle mass and performance as well as 500 mg with less risk.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Cheers mate, I'm actually just finishing low test and high tren cycle, quite happy with the results both size and strength wise with virtually no sides, but I'm tempted to try high test high tren in a couple of months.
> 
> Out of curiosity, did you run both low and high test with high tren?


 Yes, high test with tren will increase strength and mass but the sides like BP, insomnia, mood issues, etc become more apparent. Those at risk for tren gyno will also find it harder to prevent.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What causes the trauma in terms of scar tissue when pinning, the needle, the volume of oil Injected or both.


 Both, i saw actually read a study on this not too long ago. Good question


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> I don't use reccies, eat healthy and don't drink often (once a fortnight maybe).
> 
> I was planning on competing in 2018/2019 and also have a few social media pages which are literally just taking off (thousands plus of followers). So whilst all these cogs are turning and im milking it, coming onto a cruise would potentially grind them to a halt!
> 
> So with these two goals in mind, and feeling OK, I might stick it out until next summer, long cruise over next winter, then a prep into 2019 show  .


 This is why i think longer cycles have their benefits, sometimes you want to keep your momentum going.


----------



## Lancashiregent

@ElChapo

Great to see you back!

A quick question on blood results.

I'm running 300mg of Test E and 300mg of Mast E per week. No AI at the time, but now running 1mg Adex split into doses during the week.

Mid cycle bloods are showing test at 91 and oestrogen at 403 pmol/L

Oestrogen is clearly out of range. However, I suffer no sides such as bloat or fat gain or gyno ( Gaining around 1lb a week, so some fat there admittedly but not unreasonable)

My question relates to the oestrogen. Is having oestrogen so out of range detrimental to my health and presenting any health issues?

Are there any other issues with oestrogen being out of range, but not suffering sides?

Markers were decent other than Haemoglobin at 176 - ( top end of acceptable range being 170) and HCT at 0.529. ( Since donated blood and donating every 8 weeks)

CK was also at 1078 which the doc at Medichecks was most concerned about.

Any advice or comments on any of the above warmly received.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Great to see you back!
> 
> A quick question on blood results.
> 
> I'm running 300mg of Test E and 300mg of Mast E per week. No AI at the time, but now running 1mg Adex split into doses during the week.
> 
> Mid cycle bloods are showing test at 91 and oestrogen at 403 pmol/L
> 
> Oestrogen is clearly out of range. However, I suffer no sides such as bloat or fat gain or gyno ( Gaining around 1lb a week, so some fat there admittedly but not unreasonable)
> 
> My question relates to the oestrogen. Is having oestrogen so out of range detrimental to my health and presenting any health issues?
> 
> Are there any other issues with oestrogen being out of range, but not suffering sides?
> 
> Markers were decent other than Haemoglobin at 176 - ( top end of acceptable range being 170) and HCT at 0.529. ( Since donated blood and donating every 8 weeks)
> 
> CK was also at 1078 which the doc at Medichecks was most concerned about.
> 
> Any advice or comments on any of the above warmly received.


 High e2 will increase risk of blood clots which can lead to pulmonary embolism, stroke or heart attack. You should be fine, but the risk is there.

Creatine kinase can be elevated from muscle trauma, infections, etc.

It is generally used as a biomarker for recent heart attack, but the levels will usually be pretty high and you would know.


----------



## StretchyBell

I've got some bloods from february that no one really got back to me about. Would love to have you look at them quickly just to give me a picture of what shape I was in back then.


----------



## ElChapo

StretchyBell said:


> I've got some bloods from february that no one really got back to me about. Would love to have you look at them quickly just to give me a picture of what shape I was in back then.


 Post em here or PM


----------



## Lancashiregent

ElChapo said:


> High e2 will increase risk of blood clots which can lead to pulmonary embolism, stroke or heart attack. You should be fine, but the risk is there.
> 
> Creatine kinase can be elevated from muscle trauma, infections, etc.
> 
> It is generally used as a biomarker for recent heart attack, but the levels will usually be pretty high and you would know.


 Ok, thank you.

It makes a good deal of sense to bring oestrogen into range then.

If the test dose was reduced by 50% would the oestrogen level also reduce by 50%, or is it not that simple?

Cheers


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> Certain things wont be seen on blood work like arterial calcification, prostate morphology, blood clot formation, etc.
> 
> If you keep your labs and BP in tight range and perform regular cardiovascular exercise, stay lean, etc you will limit any long term risk.
> 
> There are worse things you could do for your health like smoking, being overweight or sedentary.
> 
> Usually 300 mg will perserve muscle mass and performance as well as 500 mg with less risk.


 Cheers, ive been neglecting cardio bar a 20 minute walk at lunch and a longer one at the weekend. Mostly due to the fact ive upped lifting from 4 to 6 days and my gym is a bit further away now so it really is just time. But im back down to 4 days with saturday morning for circuit training followed by 30/40mins liss which i intend to keep up once the cals go back up.

Will certainly consider 300mg if you think the benefits are comparable to 500mg just with less sides/risks?


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo thanks for the answer on PM and WELCOME BACK!!!

Now for me it's time to cut, i am trying 2 weeks of "Stubborn fat solution, patch 1.1", the most complete stack..... hope it will serve me well 

Question: I tried to put my thyroid at Puberty levels but damn.... i need 75mcg T3 and 400mcg T4 to keep it in puberty.... should it be really convenient? Will i risk to eat my muscles?


----------



## carlos1620

@ElChapo

I recently had bloods and test came at 8.9nmol while oestradiol at 152pmol. Now it might be some mistake as I'm on 500mg test and 1mg of Adex a week and been on same brand/batch for 10 weeks.

But the question is if we take into account total testosterone of 8.9nmol, can oestradiol be as high as 152pmol on 1mg of Adex a week? I've seen oestradiol ranging from 18-70pmol in test of 8-10 nmol but never anything higher than that, let alone on 1mg of Adex a week.

And, Is there any rough estimation of test to oestradiol in natty or athletes on gear?

Many Thanks


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> High e2 will increase risk of blood clots which can lead to pulmonary embolism, stroke or heart attack. You should be fine, but the risk is there.
> 
> Creatine kinase can be elevated from muscle trauma, infections, etc.
> 
> It is generally used as a biomarker for recent heart attack, but the levels will usually be pretty high and you would know.


 My CK levels came back really high back a few years ago, my GP told me that it looked like I had had a heart attack and sent me to the hospital to run further tests. They done a chest x-ray, ekg and some more bloods and after 8 hours sent me home telling me my heart showed no signs of a heart attack and the xray and ekg was normal but my CK was elevated but nothing to worry about as they use other markers along side it that are more accurate and they were normal


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> Ok, thank you.
> 
> It makes a good deal of sense to bring oestrogen into range then.
> 
> If the test dose was reduced by 50% would the oestrogen level also reduce by 50%, or is it not that simple?
> 
> Cheers


 Not that simple, but it could be. It's not linear all the time.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> Cheers, ive been neglecting cardio bar a 20 minute walk at lunch and a longer one at the weekend. Mostly due to the fact ive upped lifting from 4 to 6 days and my gym is a bit further away now so it really is just time. But im back down to 4 days with saturday morning for circuit training followed by 30/40mins liss which i intend to keep up once the cals go back up.
> 
> Will certainly consider 300mg if you think the benefits are comparable to 500mg just with less sides/risks?


 For a cruise, definitely 300 mg. You should notice no difference in maintenance and you might be dryer. That's just what i would do in your shoes. You can try the 500 mg if you want to.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo thanks for the answer on PM and WELCOME BACK!!!
> 
> Now for me it's time to cut, i am trying 2 weeks of "Stubborn fat solution, patch 1.1", the most complete stack..... hope it will serve me well
> 
> Question: I tried to put my thyroid at Puberty levels but damn.... i need 75mcg T3 and 400mcg T4 to keep it in puberty.... should it be really convenient? Will i risk to eat my muscles?


 It shouldn't take it more than 150 mcg of T4 to get to the top of the range. Are you taking it when you wake up one hour before eating anything?

400/75 would definitely affect nitrogen balance and muscle retention.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> My CK levels came back really high back a few years ago, my GP told me that it looked like I had had a heart attack and sent me to the hospital to run further tests. They done a chest x-ray, ekg and some more bloods and after 8 hours sent me home telling me my heart showed no signs of a heart attack and the xray and ekg was normal but my CK was elevated but nothing to worry about as they use other markers along side it that are more accurate and they were normal


 Yeah, they have other biomarkers and ezymes they can look at that will also be elevated in the presence of a recent heart attack.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, they have other biomarkers and ezymes they can look at that will also be elevated in the presence of a recent heart attack.


 They sent me home saying that my heart looked fine and that it didn't look like I had a heart attack. My GP scared the s**t out of me


----------



## ElChapo

carlos1620 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I recently had bloods and test came at 8.9nmol while oestradiol at 152pmol. Now it might be some mistake as I'm on 500mg test and 1mg of Adex a week and been on same brand/batch for 10 weeks.
> 
> But the question is if we take into account total testosterone of 8.9nmol, can oestradiol be as high as 152pmol on 1mg of Adex a week? I've seen oestradiol ranging from 18-70pmol in test of 8-10 nmol but never anything higher than that, let alone on 1mg of Adex a week.
> 
> And, Is there any rough estimation of test to oestradiol in natty or athletes on gear?
> 
> Many Thanks


 Your total t can't be that that low on 500 mg, is this 7 days after injections? Even then, this is too low.

That E2 level is fine and within the male range. It's at the top of it.

I think you are mixing up your units of measurements. 18-70 PG/ML not PMOL/L would be the range.

Normal range for Pmol/l 73-154 for E2.


----------



## Sphinkter

ElChapo said:


> For a cruise, definitely 300 mg. You should notice no difference in maintenance and you might be dryer. That's just what i would do in your shoes. You can try the 500 mg if you want to.


 Cheers. I think ill stay on the 500mg till new year while i do a mini cut then drop down to 300mg and add the npp in at the same time, gives me more room to play with in terms of upping the doses through the year while keeping the test at 300mg for cruise/mini cuts.


----------



## carlos1620

ElChapo said:


> Your total t can't be that that low on 500 mg, is this 7 days after injections? Even then, this is too low.
> 
> That E2 level is fine and within the male range. It's at the top of it.
> 
> I think you are mixing up your units of measurements. 18-70 PG/ML not PMOL/L would be the range.
> 
> Normal range for Pmol/l 73-154 for E2.


 Yes, I understand. I took blood 2 days after injection (10 weeks through; same ugl batch; same adex 1mg per week).

I'm really baffled because I feel like I'm on the cycle as my weight is stable and libido is very good but not according to the bloods.

Will be doing retest soon and some labmax for the compound.

Regarding pmol/l, seems like my lab is using this as their units


----------



## ElChapo

carlos1620 said:


> Yes, I understand. I took blood 2 days after injection (10 weeks through; same ugl batch; same adex 1mg per week).
> 
> I'm really baffled because I feel like I'm on the cycle as my weight is stable and libido is very good but not according to the bloods.
> 
> Will be doing retest soon and some labmax for the compound.
> 
> Regarding pmol/l, seems like my lab is using this as their units
> 
> View attachment 147640


 Labmax is not reliable enough to test testosterone, I would only use it for winstrol, anavar, tren, masteron and deca.

Testosterone should use lab work like you just did. Your test is bunk.

Your Total T would be at it's highest level around 2 days post injection, so by 7 days, you would be much much lower.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo how's it going mate? Glad to see you back!

right I'm on test/tren/npp atm and running aromasin 12.5mg x4 per week. I took your advise and am using ralox also @60mg ed (started 14 days before cycle and have 90 days worth). My gyno has shrunk considerably and is smallest it's been in as long as I can remember (even though I'm on 2 19nors).

Ive got 3 weeks left of a 9 week cycle and will continue the course after until the 90 days is done! My question is what do I do in the future? Being that I'm gyno prone will I have to run the ralox every cycle and if so does it have to be run at 60mg ed ?

Just to add it's the first time I've used aromasin too. Normally use adex sodont know how much this has helped the gyno


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo how's it going mate? Glad to see you back!
> 
> right I'm on test/tren/npp atm and running aromasin 12.5mg x4 per week. I took your advise and am using ralox also @60mg ed (started 14 days before cycle and have 90 days worth). My gyno has shrunk considerably and is smallest it's been in as long as I can remember (even though I'm on 2 19nors).
> 
> Ive got 3 weeks left of a 9 week cycle and will continue the course after until the 90 days is done! My question is what do I do in the future? Being that I'm gyno prone will I have to run the ralox every cycle and if so does it have to be run at 60mg ed ?
> 
> Just to add it's the first time I've used aromasin too. Normally use adex sodont know how much this has helped the gyno


 Glad it's working for you, i have reversed gyno and flare ups many times with raloxifene.

The choice is yours, you can run raloxifene through any cycle with 19nors, or you can deal with the gyno and try to reverse after your cycle.

If the ralox isn't giving you any side effects and you're satisfied with the results of your cycle, i would run the ralox through the future cycles.

Aromasin works better with SERMs, but this is data extrapolated from a breast cancer study which showed higher efficacy when SERMs were combined with aromasin but not with adex or letro.


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> 10mg a day would be more appropriate for include the BP in the positives?


 You might seen an effect on BP starting around 10-20 mg, i've seen it drop between 10-15 points on average. I believe there's likely a genetic sensitivity involved.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Glad it's working for you, i have reversed gyno and flare ups many times with raloxifene.
> 
> The choice is yours, you can run raloxifene through any cycle with 19nors, or you can deal with the gyno and try to reverse after your cycle.
> 
> If the ralox isn't giving you any side effects and you're satisfied with the results of your cycle, i would run the ralox through the future cycles.
> 
> Aromasin works better with SERMs, but this is data extrapolated from a breast cancer study which showed higher efficacy when SERMs were combined with aromasin but not with adex or letro.


 So if I were to run it on cycle again and gyno is where it's at now (virtually gone) so I'm not trying to reverse and just prevent can I run at a lower dose, say 30mg per day?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> So if I were to run it on cycle again and gyno is where it's at now (virtually gone) so I'm not trying to reverse and just prevent can I run at a lower dose, say 30mg per day?


 Most likely, a friend of mine did that and it worked, but it will depend on how much tren you run and how high you let the E2 go.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

is test all you really need the more you take the bigger you get see a lot of pros only take high test and hgh and slin


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> is test all you really need the more you take the bigger you get see a lot of pros only take high test and hgh and slin


 Sure, but you never know what pros are actually taking, unless you are watching them draw everything up and inject on a daily basis yourself.

Generally, genetics/training/diet = results.

High test/GH/SLIN with good diet training genetics will work just fine, but certain anabolics like trenbolone enhance IGF-1 activity in the body. Winstrol can further enhance strength and has a strong drying effect, etc.


----------



## Tonynico

ElChapo said:


> Sure, but you never know what pros are actually taking, unless you are watching them draw everything up and inject on a daily basis yourself.
> 
> Generally, genetics/training/diet = results.
> 
> High test/GH/SLIN with good diet training genetics will work just fine, but certain anabolics like trenbolone enhance IGF-1 activity in the body. Winstrol can further enhance strength and has a strong drying effect, etc.


 How safe is blasting and crusing and thanks for answering mate


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

If E2 is kept in normal range (100pmol/l for example) while using only Test E can a user still be more susceptible with getting gyno vs if they never use synthetic testosterone but naturally have the same E2 level.?

Thanks


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It shouldn't take it more than 150 mcg of T4 to get to the top of the range. Are you taking it when you wake up one hour before eating anything?
> 
> 400/75 would definitely affect nitrogen balance and muscle retention.


 I am taking full dose when I wake up just before eating....

I am also on 6iu HGH Humatrope ed...

My intention is to use thyroid hormones for anabolic purpose and was reading that it's possible.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> How safe is blasting and crusing and thanks for answering mate


 Depends on what you blast and cruise, your genetic sensitivity to heart disease, how well you manage your health markers/vitals (E2, BP, etc). The question is too broad to answer fully and you just never know. Some guys can probably blast and cruise all the way to +80 years, some other guys might have a heart attack or liver failure by 45. You just never know, but the more extreme the doses and compounds, the higher the risks.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> If E2 is kept in normal range (100pmol/l for example) while using only Test E can a user still be more susceptible with getting gyno vs if they never use synthetic testosterone but naturally have the same E2 level.?
> 
> Thanks


 Likely not, some guys find that their E2 is higher on synthetic test with the same testosterone level due to decrease in SHBG and increase in free testosterone, which leads to higher E2 than baseline. Some men just dont aromatize and will have low E2 with normal testosterone values.

To answer the question, it is highly unlikely.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I am taking full dose when I wake up just before eating....
> 
> I am also on 6iu HGH Humatrope ed...
> 
> My intention is to use thyroid hormones for anabolic purpose and was reading that it's possible.


 Yes, thyroid hormone increases protein synthesis and speeds up metabolic processes. Sometimes androgen use lowers thyroid hormone activity in the body due to it's effect on thyroid binding proteins in the blood stream. Too much thyroid hormone will increase protein synthesis AND breakdown, having a net negative effect on nitrogen retention/protein building.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Yes, thyroid hormone increases protein synthesis and speeds up metabolic processes. Sometimes androgen use lowers thyroid hormone activity in the body due to it's effect on thyroid binding proteins in the blood stream. Too much thyroid hormone will increase protein synthesis AND breakdown, having a net negative effect on nitrogen retention/protein building.


 So my bloods on pharma grade 50mcg T3 and 100mcg T4 come like that:

FREE T3: 2.38 pg/ml

FREE T4: 0.34 ng/dl

TSH: <0.01 mUI/L

Should i add some T4 to move it up? Was thinking at adding 200mcg T4 and redo bloods after 4 weeks to see the value.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> So my bloods on pharma grade 50mcg T3 and 100mcg T4 come like that:
> 
> FREE T3: 2.38 pg/ml
> 
> FREE T4: 0.34 ng/dl
> 
> TSH: <0.01 mUI/L
> 
> Should i add some T4 to move it up? Was thinking at adding 200mcg T4 and redo bloods after 4 weeks to see the value.


 Your T4 looks bunk, that's too low.

Are you taking it first thing in the morning and waiting 1 hour before you eat?


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Your T4 looks bunk, that's too low.


 No mate trust me.... it's EUTIROX i bought it from my pharmacy.... and my GF uses it since she has not thyroid.... remember that some T4 can be converted into T3 due to HGH....


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> No mate trust me.... it's EUTIROX i bought it from my pharmacy.... and my GF uses it since she has not thyroid.... remember that some T4 can be converted into T3 due to HGH....


 Some, but the level is too low. Do you take it on an empty stomach in the morning, and wait 1 hour before eating/drinking coffee/tea or taking supplements?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

I was in hospital four years ago after feeling unwell, my GP did an ecg (heart trace?) said it didn't look right and sent me straight to hospital. Whilst there I passed out when they attempted to insert a line for a drip, apparently this is common. I become conscious a few secs later and then flat line. Seven seconds later I wake, that haven't toured me but it's started again (they had a crash cart ready)

So I was monitored, echo scan completed, more traces and everyone has a good listen to my heart. No jokes that they could see, hr and BP were fine. After an overnight stay the consultation said I had athletes heart aka an enlarged heart which could be genetic or caused by working out. I came clean about using aas and he dismissed it without asking much else. (I was only 90kg at the time, circa 12% so far from bug at 6ft 2)

I wore a machine for a week that recorded everything and they didn't see any issues. Now four years have passed and although I've blasted and cruised since then, I've cruised on 300-400mg test and blast have been max 8 weeks and maybe 300-500mg of tren mast total or deca. Have only run two oral cycles since, one was winny for six weeks, the other dbol for three weeks.

Should I go back and have this checked, should I do anything different to a non steroid user based on this? I'm the fittest and meanest I've bee, again not huge approx 10% and 100kg just now, but due to a change in jobs I panned to do a couple of good cycles as I have the time, however Iver just seen the Dallas Mccarver low down (see link) and I'm concerned about plaque build up (which wasn't mentioned four years ago)

Would a full blood test via medicheck give an indication of possible heart issues or anything else, or would I fall to my GP and get a follow up? I'm feeling fine, but paranoid obviously, and they don't call it the silent killer for nothing....

Cheers


----------



## Pancake'

How would you rate the content & quality of this multivitamin?


----------



## Sphinkter

@ElChapo thoughts on long term use of hcg while b&c at 500iu twice a week, will it cause desensitization of the leydig cells or is this a result of higher doses only?


----------



## nickc300

ElChapo said:


> I had the same issue when bulking for many months. The main issue is that your leptin levels are extremely high. Leptin is the satiety hormone that tells your body that you are full. When you carry more bodyfat, your body will want to eat less generally. This is why it is difficult for most people to maintain low body fat, because low body fat = less leptin = more appetite.
> 
> Are you taking any tren? What's your cycle? Orals can cause GI symptoms and lack of appetite in many people.
> 
> *Liver toxicity from orals usually comes from a condition called cholestasis. This is when the bile flow is impeded and the bile pools in the liver ducts, this causes the liver to destroy itself since it can expel enzymes/bile/etc. TUDCA is a bile salt which keeps bile flow running smoothly, thereby, preventing 17-alkylated AAS induced cholestasis in the first place.*


 Fascinating. Your a wealth of information mate. Never have I read through a thread taking notes like this one :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I was in hospital four years ago after feeling unwell, my GP did an ecg (heart trace?) said it didn't look right and sent me straight to hospital. Whilst there I passed out when they attempted to insert a line for a drip, apparently this is common. I become conscious a few secs later and then flat line. Seven seconds later I wake, that haven't toured me but it's started again (they had a crash cart ready)
> 
> So I was monitored, echo scan completed, more traces and everyone has a good listen to my heart. No jokes that they could see, hr and BP were fine. After an overnight stay the consultation said I had athletes heart aka an enlarged heart which could be genetic or caused by working out. I came clean about using aas and he dismissed it without asking much else. (I was only 90kg at the time, circa 12% so far from bug at 6ft 2)
> 
> I wore a machine for a week that recorded everything and they didn't see any issues. Now four years have passed and although I've blasted and cruised since then, I've cruised on 300-400mg test and blast have been max 8 weeks and maybe 300-500mg of tren mast total or deca. Have only run two oral cycles since, one was winny for six weeks, the other dbol for three weeks.
> 
> Should I go back and have this checked, should I do anything different to a non steroid user based on this? I'm the fittest and meanest I've bee, again not huge approx 10% and 100kg just now, but due to a change in jobs I panned to do a couple of good cycles as I have the time, however Iver just seen the Dallas Mccarver low down (see link) and I'm concerned about plaque build up (which wasn't mentioned four years ago)
> 
> Would a full blood test via medicheck give an indication of possible heart issues or anything else, or would I fall to my GP and get a follow up? I'm feeling fine, but paranoid obviously, and they don't call it the silent killer for nothing....
> 
> Cheers


 Dallas testosterone level was almost 50,000 ng/dL, he was probably on +10 grams of AAS per week plus all the junk pro BB eat to get their calories in.

Best way to prevent plaque is too keep HDL good and do regular cardiovascular exercise.


----------



## ElChapo

Sphinkter said:


> @ElChapo thoughts on long term use of hcg while b&c at 500iu twice a week, will it cause desensitization of the leydig cells or is this a result of higher doses only?


 There isn't a lot of evidence supporting desensitization, generally 500-2000 iu per week works well for most people.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> How would you rate the content & quality of this multivitamin?
> 
> View attachment 147720


 Pretty solid actually


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> There isn't a lot of evidence supporting desensitization, generally 500-2000 iu per week works well for most people.


 1000iu worked really well for me I never needed to run a pct after my cycle


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Gunna mix mix up the last few months of blast, from 150mg test 300mg tren e 50mcg t3, to 150mg test, 150mg tren e, 250mg deca, 50mcg t3.

See anything wrong with this for a simple low dose effective that's nice on the joints?

Cant imagine switching 150mg tren for 250mg deca will make a world of difference, I don't suffer from any sides from the tren bar sweats.

Reason being I'm giving a few months full attention to some niggling injuries, so I'll be adding in tb500, bpc, maybe some GH peptides (not too clued up on these?) and physio therapy daily.

Hoping this full stack and lots of attention will sort me out for next year's summer blast, where I plan to look the best I ever have.

Cheers


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

Here are a few questions that people tend to sort based on their experience or others, but there isn't no science backing them. Thoughts?

-Orals, Any Benefit to splitting them OR Take them All Pre workout/Post/Night Time, With Food or Without? Looking at Muscle Growth benefits only.

-Steroids Receptors. The longer u run a steroid, does it become less effective in terms of mass growth? Say u Ran 1000mg test e for a year straight...?

-Trenbolone and the Thyroid, It reduces it? So does other steroids in high dose?

-Does any other steroids other than Deca, have any benefit to building stronger tendons/joints of holding them together during cycle while test reduces collagen synthesis and makes them weaker as the dosage goes up? Any thing about EQ on this topic?

-What is the reasoning to take t3 without food and wait prior to eating?

Thanks, Just a few COMMON questions that could use some guaranteed expert advice. Appreciate it


----------



## mmichael

ElChapo said:


> Dallas testosterone level was almost 50,000 ng/dL, he was probably on +10 grams of AAS per week plus all the junk pro BB eat to get their calories in.
> 
> Best way to prevent plaque is too keep HDL good and do regular cardiovascular exercise.


 How did u find out it was 50k ng/dl? Holy damn. (EDIT: NVM I saw the thread).

Wow, Can't imagine pinning that much gear. I heard greg valentino use to shoot 50cc of EQ a week or use up 10ml vials of test in 1-2 days. That guy ended up being 5'6 270 lbs. He is one of the few huge guys from back in the day that is willing to admit they juiced out of their mind and would take anything they could get a hold off. I never understand why some of the guys from back then like Lee priest and Dorian make blogs and videos saying they ran 500 test and 300 deca once in a blue moon. So stupid..

Out of curisoity, do u see using more than 1g test doing much for muscle growth? What is their reasoning for taking 5-6g of test alone....? I heard steroids cap at certain dosages for growth and it's really a point of diminishing returns.....no?

What do u mean junk food? As far as I've been aware would u not think pro BB eat the best diets they can for growth? I right now atm taking in about 4g gear (1.2 test, 1.2 tren, 1 eq, 100 anadrol). I'm also on 50mcg t3 for the tren and lean bulk approach. My req have been pretty high. I lost 1lb last week eating 5300 cals. Been having issues even getting that amount down in "clean diet", it was okay for the first 2-3 weeks, but now as 3.5-4-5 weeks coming up. My appt for that food is dead and I've been packing down pre-made foods (TV Dinners, Pasta, Meat, Whey/egg white shakes, Eggs, Protein Bars/Cookies, Potatoes, Olive Oil, Nuts ect... I do add in some fast food too. Mostly the burgers I order, not the 600cal ones, but the 250 ones that are basic and I get a few of those on the run. I've been trying to stay away from fried foods for sure and very sugar stuff unless it's post workout.) Thoughts? Aiming for 250-300g protein...


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Pretty solid actually


 This is the more complete version, would you approve? Thanks man


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Gunna mix mix up the last few months of blast, from 150mg test 300mg tren e 50mcg t3, to 150mg test, 150mg tren e, 250mg deca, 50mcg t3.
> 
> See anything wrong with this for a simple low dose effective that's nice on the joints?
> 
> Cant imagine switching 150mg tren for 250mg deca will make a world of difference, I don't suffer from any sides from the tren bar sweats.
> 
> Reason being I'm giving a few months full attention to some niggling injuries, so I'll be adding in tb500, bpc, maybe some GH peptides (not too clued up on these?) and physio therapy daily.
> 
> Hoping this full stack and lots of attention will sort me out for next year's summer blast, where I plan to look the best I ever have.
> 
> Cheers


 Not at all, looks good. I see strong cosmetic effects from only 100 mg of tren ace per week. Grant it, this is my own homebrew, so it's dosed correctly and i had it tested at a legit laboratory in the US.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Here are a few questions that people tend to sort based on their experience or others, but there isn't no science backing them. Thoughts?
> 
> -Orals, Any Benefit to splitting them OR Take them All Pre workout/Post/Night Time, With Food or Without? Looking at Muscle Growth benefits only.
> 
> -Steroids Receptors. The longer u run a steroid, does it become less effective in terms of mass growth? Say u Ran 1000mg test e for a year straight...?
> 
> -Trenbolone and the Thyroid, It reduces it? So does other steroids in high dose?
> 
> -Does any other steroids other than Deca, have any benefit to building stronger tendons/joints of holding them together during cycle while test reduces collagen synthesis and makes them weaker as the dosage goes up? Any thing about EQ on this topic?
> 
> -What is the reasoning to take t3 without food and wait prior to eating?
> 
> Thanks, Just a few COMMON questions that could use some guaranteed expert advice. Appreciate it


 orals: All at once is fine, you won't see a difference.

receptors: Generally, they won't become less effective. Most pros are permablasting and still coming in bigger year after year. There is no such thing as "desensatization". People experience plateaus and automatically blame "receptors".

Tren/thyroid: Androgens can affect thyroid function by altering the thyroid binding protein content in the blood. Tren is a strong androgen and i have seen TSH affected by it's use.

Deca: It's the only androgen proven to have some effect, the broscience has been backed up by some research. if you want to know more, check out

Am J Sports Med. 2004 Jun;32(4):934-43.
*Nandrolone decanoate and load increase remodeling and strength in human supraspinatus bioartificial tendons.*

T3: This can be taken on an empty stomach with minimal effect on absorption. It's T4 aka synthroid/levothyroxine that must be consumed away from food/supplements/coffee due to the fact that these things impaired absorption by about 30-50%.

All very good questions btw


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> orals: All at once is fine, you won't see a difference.
> 
> receptors: Generally, they won't become less effective. Most pros are permablasting and still coming in bigger year after year. There is no such thing as "desensatization". People experience plateaus and automatically blame "receptors".
> 
> Tren/thyroid: Androgens can affect thyroid function by altering the thyroid binding protein content in the blood. Tren is a strong androgen and i have seen TSH affected by it's use.
> 
> Deca: It's the only androgen proven to have some effect, the broscience has been backed up by some research. if you want to know more, check out
> 
> Am J Sports Med. 2004 Jun;32(4):934-43.
> *Nandrolone decanoate and load increase remodeling and strength in human supraspinatus bioartificial tendons.*
> 
> T3: This can be taken on an empty stomach with minimal effect on absorption. It's T4 aka synthroid/levothyroxine that must be consumed away from food/supplements/coffee due to the fact that these things impaired absorption by about 30-50%.
> 
> All very good questions btw


 I take my thyroid hormones with breakfast.... Now I know why T4 is so low....


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I take my thyroid hormones with breakfast.... Now I know why T4 is so low....


 There you go.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> How did u find out it was 50k ng/dl? Holy damn. (EDIT: NVM I saw the thread).
> 
> Wow, Can't imagine pinning that much gear. I heard greg valentino use to shoot 50cc of EQ a week or use up 10ml vials of test in 1-2 days. That guy ended up being 5'6 270 lbs. He is one of the few huge guys from back in the day that is willing to admit they juiced out of their mind and would take anything they could get a hold off. I never understand why some of the guys from back then like Lee priest and Dorian make blogs and videos saying they ran 500 test and 300 deca once in a blue moon. So stupid..
> 
> Out of curisoity, do u see using more than 1g test doing much for muscle growth? What is their reasoning for taking 5-6g of test alone....? I heard steroids cap at certain dosages for growth and it's really a point of diminishing returns.....no?
> 
> What do u mean junk food? As far as I've been aware would u not think pro BB eat the best diets they can for growth? I right now atm taking in about 4g gear (1.2 test, 1.2 tren, 1 eq, 100 anadrol). I'm also on 50mcg t3 for the tren and lean bulk approach. My req have been pretty high. I lost 1lb last week eating 5300 cals. Been having issues even getting that amount down in "clean diet", it was okay for the first 2-3 weeks, but now as 3.5-4-5 weeks coming up. My appt for that food is dead and I've been packing down pre-made foods (TV Dinners, Pasta, Meat, Whey/egg white shakes, Eggs, Protein Bars/Cookies, Potatoes, Olive Oil, Nuts ect... I do add in some fast food too. Mostly the burgers I order, not the 600cal ones, but the 250 ones that are basic and I get a few of those on the run. I've been trying to stay away from fried foods for sure and very sugar stuff unless it's post workout.) Thoughts? Aiming for 250-300g protein...


 You get diminishing returns, but high doses usually equate to higher gains, if all conditions are met first : Diet, training, genetics.

Many BBers will eat fast food/calorie dense food to get their calories in. Not all of them, but getting in 5k calories of brown rice and chicken is a challange for even the most dedicated.

I would lower T3 down to 25 mcg. 50 mcg is a bit high for bulking. Staying lean while bulking is more a matter of eating just enough calories to grow with minimal spill over.


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

Starz said:


> This is the more complete version, would you approve? Thanks man
> 
> View attachment 147746


 What's the product name mate? I like the look of this


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

@ElChapo been blasting and crusing dude..... should I be using hcg? Really admire the effort and knowledge your putting in this thread got a hole lot of s**t saved!!


----------



## ElChapo

JuiceyjayV2 said:


> @ElChapo been blasting and crusing dude..... should I be using hcg? Really admire the effort and knowledge your putting in this thread got a hole lot of s**t saved!!


 Only if you care about fertility, testicle size or eventually coming off completely


----------



## gt4_ade

@ElChapo

Had bloods done last week at end of 12 week test e dhb blast. Hdl came in at .75 ldl at 2.19. I do 20mins cv ed and consume plenty of good fats. What else would you recommend to raise hdl?


----------



## ElChapo

gt4_ade said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Had bloods done last week at end of 12 week test e dhb blast. Hdl came in at .75 ldl at 2.19. I do 20mins cv ed and consume plenty of good fats. What else would you recommend to raise hdl?


 Enough androgens will nuke HDL, however, the best way to increase it is fish oil, red wine consumption, red yeast rice extract and cardio.

I did blood work after x 2 50 mg injections of tren over the span of a week, it nuked HDL down to 30% of what it originally was. The cool thing is that it also dropped the LDL by a good amount.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

I'm at week 19 of my 32 week cycle. Just pinned the tren for the first time a couple of days ago.

Cycle:

1-19 test e 600mg

4-19 deca 600mg

19-32 test e 250mg

19-32 tren e 400mg

I've used orals on/off throughout the cycle, currently around 5 days away from finishing a run of 100mg anadrol.

How can I protect my body the best for this cycle? I take vitamin d 5000iu throughout the cycle, also a few days ago I started taking bulk powders super omega 3 (330mg EPA, 220mg DPA) 2x a day. I am also thinking of starting to take NAC every day.


----------



## JW210

Hi @ElChapo, great to see you back. I'd like your advice on a DNP cut if that's possible. I've always had great success with DNP (I'm the type that has lost 25lbs after 21 days on and 6 days off 375 / 500, consistently). However I'm planning to add ECA this time just to add energy and decrease appetite. Diets as follows -

2PM 200ml semi skimmed milk 50g Whey (Around 300 cals total)

3:30PM 3 chicken breasts or ground beef, roast potatoes or rice and green veggies (Around 700 cals)

7PM Another combination of the 3:30PM meal

10PM 1 carton egg whites

And the occasional small snack dotted throughout.

(A basic template taken from @DLTBB, I'll modify it a bit when desired). I'll be waking at 7am, lifting at 08.30am, then 20-30 mins cardio. DNP at 11am and 9pm. When should I take the ECA? How much? What split? And are my meal timings correct, considering my exercise timing? (I don't know what time DLTBB works out).

Any help much appreciated! TY.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm at week 19 of my 32 week cycle. Just pinned the tren for the first time a couple of days ago.
> 
> Cycle:
> 
> 1-19 test e 600mg
> 
> 4-19 deca 600mg
> 
> 19-32 test e 250mg
> 
> 19-32 tren e 400mg
> 
> I've used orals on/off throughout the cycle, currently around 5 days away from finishing a run of 100mg anadrol.
> 
> How can I protect my body the best for this cycle? I take vitamin d 5000iu throughout the cycle, also a few days ago I started taking bulk powders super omega 3 (330mg EPA, 220mg DPA) 2x a day. I am also thinking of starting to take NAC every day.


 Throw in some light cardio a couple of times a week, say 15-30 minutes, x 2-3 per week. You can do sports, boxing, swimming, etc. Just get your heart working.

TUDCA and NAC are good to run for orals, and trenbolone can be slightly liver toxic.

Make sure your E2 isn't very high as well. This can put extra stress on the heart and increase the risk of blood clotting, heart attack and stroke.


----------



## ElChapo

JW210 said:


> Hi @ElChapo, great to see you back. I'd like your advice on a DNP cut if that's possible. I've always had great success with DNP (I'm the type that has lost 25lbs after 21 days on and 6 days off 375 / 500, consistently). However I'm planning to add ECA this time just to add energy and decrease appetite. Diets as follows -
> 
> 2PM 200ml semi skimmed milk 50g Whey (Around 300 cals total)
> 
> 3:30PM 3 chicken breasts or ground beef, roast potatoes or rice and green veggies (Around 700 cals)
> 
> 7PM Another combination of the 3:30PM meal
> 
> 10PM 1 carton egg whites
> 
> And the occasional small snack dotted throughout.
> 
> (A basic template taken from @DLTBB, I'll modify it a bit when desired). I'll be waking at 7am, lifting at 08.30am, then 20-30 mins cardio. DNP at 11am and 9pm. When should I take the ECA? How much? What split? And are my meal timings correct, considering my exercise timing? (I don't know what time DLTBB works out).
> 
> Any help much appreciated! TY.


 I like to start in the morning with my coffee, throwing in some fasted cardio is optional. Many people including myself find that we don't need the 2nd or 3rd dosage through out the day.

If you want to throw in the 2nd and 3rd dose, space them out by about 6-8 hours. I don't recommend the 3rd dose as it can impaired sleep quality. x 2 times daily will do the trick with EC.

Ephedrine is usually dosed around 20 mg per dose, caffeine can be dosed at 200-400 mg depending on individual tolerance. EC synergizes extremely well with DNP.


----------



## JW210

ElChapo said:


> I like to start in the morning with my coffee, throwing in some fasted cardio is optional. Many people including myself find that we don't need the 2nd or 3rd dosage through out the day.
> 
> If you want to throw in the 2nd and 3rd dose, space them out by about 6-8 hours. I don't recommend the 3rd dose as it can impaired sleep quality. x 2 times daily will do the trick with EC.
> 
> Ephedrine is usually dosed around 20 mg per dose, caffeine can be dosed at 200-400 mg depending on individual tolerance. EC synergizes extremely well with DNP.


 Cheers mate, TYVM. So I'm going to wake, take my EC (16/200), then workout (lift for 1 hour-ish, then run for 20 mins), and see if I feel the need for more EC in the afternoon? TY 

A;so, is EC used for energy, or appetite suppressant? (I've never used before)


----------



## ElChapo

JW210 said:


> Cheers mate, TYVM. So I'm going to wake, take my EC (16/200), then workout (lift for 1 hour-ish, then run for 20 mins), and see if I feel the need for more EC in the afternoon? TY
> 
> A;so, is EC used for energy, or appetite suppressant? (I've never used before)


 Yeah sounds good.

It will give you energy and suppress hunger. Think of it as a more potent version of caffeine. Almost identical effects. Basically, Ephedrine behaves like a synthetic adrenaline in the body.


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo always enjoy reading your posts

If you could choose your ultimate strength cycle what would it include and at what doses ?


----------



## feelinfine

How do you maximize training in between cycles to retain as much muscle as possible?

Gaining on cycle is so ridiculously easy. But I think the more important question is how do we train and eat during our time off to maximize our effort.


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo always enjoy reading your posts
> 
> If you could choose your ultimate strength cycle what would it include and at what doses ?


 Depending on experience level, 300 mg-1 g test, 300 mg-1 g tren per week+50-100 mg winstrol daily. GH+Insulin, calorie surplus.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> How do you maximize training in between cycles to retain as much muscle as possible?
> 
> Gaining on cycle is so ridiculously easy. But I think the more important question is how do we train and eat during our time off to maximize our effort.


 Time off on a cruise dose or PCT? The method will be the same, you want to focus on retainaining as much strength as possible and make sure you eat at maintenance. Focus on keeping your lifts at the same weight, the more strength you lose, the more muscle you are generally losing. Muscle built with strength is easier to retain than muscle built with high volume/pump training after you come off or stop your cycle.

Do not cut off cycle if you want to keep as much muscle as possible. If anything, drop your dose or continue the cut until your desired level of leanness is achieved.

PCT will make it much harder as your levels recover. If they ever do.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Depending on experience level, 300 mg-1 g test, 300 mg-1 g tren per week+50-100 mg winstrol daily. GH+Insulin, calorie surplus.


 What are your views on timing of introduction of GH and slin into mix?. I mean how much weight at which body fat percentage at a height of around 180cms can be achieved without using GH and slin?.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What are your views on timing of introduction of GH and slin into mix?. I mean how much weight at which body fat percentage at a height of around 180cms can be achieved without using GH and slin?.


 That's going to depend on genetics, generally, GH/SLIN will increase how quickly you can put on mass and training recovery as well.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> That's going to depend on genetics, generally, GH/SLIN will increase how quickly you can put on mass and training recovery as well.


 Hmmm. For someone who is lingering around 12% at 85kgs with height of around 180cms, what can be a safe starting protocol for both?.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Hmmm. For someone who is lingering around 12% at 85kgs with height of around 180cms, what can be a safe starting protocol for both?.


 I would keep pushing your gains before you introduce the GH/SLIN, the use of insulin brings some risks. Try to gain another 20 lbs of muscle, get a lean 200-225 lbs.

If you really want to try it, just use any basic beginner protocol to get your feet wet. If you are going to be using generic GH, make sure you have some way of testing it's potency. That's my two cents.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> I would keep pushing your gains before you introduce the GH/SLIN, the use of insulin brings some risks. Try to gain another 20 lbs of muscle, get a lean 200-225 lbs.
> 
> If you really want to try it, just use any basic beginner protocol to get your feet wet. If you are going to be using generic GH, make sure you have some way of testing it's potency. That's my two cents.


 That first paragraph was what i was looking as an answer for my first query.

I got it what you are trying to convey. Thanks a lot for your valuable input.


----------



## AnabolicGyno

Is there a point where you're literally eating too much, I've been pushing close to 6000kcals the last few days majority clean foods and my weight has continuously dropped. I'm on 750mg test 400mg tren, don't mind eating morejust wondering is there a point or should I just let my body slowly recomp on these kcals.


----------



## superdrol

AnabolicGyno said:


> Is there a point where you're literally eating too much, I've been pushing close to 6000kcals the last few days majority clean foods and my weight has continuously dropped. I'm on 750mg test 400mg tren, don't mind eating morejust wondering is there a point or should I just let my body slowly recomp on these kcals.


 Are you doing cardio? Working out five or six times a week?


----------



## AnabolicGyno

superdrol said:


> Are you doing cardio? Working out five or six times a week?


 15 mins LISS with lifting 6 times a week.


----------



## superdrol

AnabolicGyno said:


> 15 mins LISS with lifting 6 times a week.


 I'd either drop a session altogether or drop the cardio as your going to stagnate gains if your recomping and at those calories


----------



## green81

How do strongmen require 9000+ calories a day?

Even at the highest settings in calorie calculators which are pretty impossible to meet, people like Eddie Hall are eating almost double that everyday.

The average male stores around 2000 calories worth in glycogen so I've always assumed it was to do with that and because androgens upregulate adrenaline receptors but surely that can't make up an extra 5k in calories everyday


----------



## MrBishi

Any you recommend for lower back pump due to Winstrol?

I've now not bothered starting my 2nd tub of Winstrol because of it. Taurine helped but mainly just helped how long it took the pumps to go.


----------



## ElChapo

AnabolicGyno said:


> Is there a point where you're literally eating too much, I've been pushing close to 6000kcals the last few days majority clean foods and my weight has continuously dropped. I'm on 750mg test 400mg tren, don't mind eating morejust wondering is there a point or should I just let my body slowly recomp on these kcals.


 Are you doing any cardio? How is your appetite, are you barely pushing the 6k cals through or can you eat more?


----------



## ElChapo

AnabolicGyno said:


> Is there a point where you're literally eating too much, I've been pushing close to 6000kcals the last few days majority clean foods and my weight has continuously dropped. I'm on 750mg test 400mg tren, don't mind eating morejust wondering is there a point or should I just let my body slowly recomp on these kcals.





green81 said:


> How do strongmen require 9000+ calories a day?
> 
> Even at the highest settings in calorie calculators which are pretty impossible to meet, people like Eddie Hall are eating almost double that everyday.
> 
> The average male stores around 2000 calories worth in glycogen so I've always assumed it was to do with that and because androgens upregulate adrenaline receptors but surely that can't make up an extra 5k in calories everyday


 Just like with AAS there is some diminishing returns with food intake. The body will fight extreme weight increase hard. Are you using insulin and GH?


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Any you recommend for lower back pump due to Winstrol?
> 
> I've now not bothered starting my 2nd tub of Winstrol because of it. Taurine helped but mainly just helped how long it took the pumps to go.


 How much winstrol are you taking?


----------



## AnabolicGyno

ElChapo said:


> Are you doing any cardio? How is your appetite, are you barely pushing the 6k cals through or can you eat more?


 15 mins 6 times a week. Could definitely eat more, I'm doing moderate protein, high carb and low fat. Also not using GH or insulin.


----------



## ElChapo

AnabolicGyno said:


> 15 mins 6 times a week. Could definitely eat more, I'm doing moderate protein, high carb and low fat. Also not using GH or insulin.


 What are your stats, If you are accurately counting calories, and you are advanced enough, you might need GH/insulin. Otherwise, up the calories if you can help it.


----------



## AnabolicGyno

ElChapo said:


> What are your stats, If you are accurately counting calories, and you are advanced enough, you might need GH/insulin. Otherwise, up the calories if you can help it.


 6'2 103kg, maybe a true 15% bf not sure. Definitely don't think I'm that advanced yet. Macros usually roughly around 300/1000/90, thinking I'll up protein a bit.


----------



## green81

Would 700mg test e 700mg tren a keep muscles full on a -1.2k?


----------



## stewedw

Dnp question here for @ElChapo

I've ran poser dnp at 250mg and 500mg. 500mg sapped the life out of me, however the results were excellent.

I can get crystal dnp now in 100mg tabs and as far as I can learn via the Internet the difference is that crystal is weaker but peaks faster and higher with a shorter half life. Is this true?

The thought process being I can dose I before bed yet come workout time the following day since its tapered off I shouldn't be as fkd as I was when I ran powder, which to my understanding peaks slower buy has a 36 hour half life. Essentially I was sweating all the time for two weeks on 500mg and could barely workout longer than 25 mins, cardio at 110bom was murder too lol.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> How much winstrol are you taking?


 Only 50mg on waking.

It's mainly on heavy deadlifts. I'm pretty sure it's not an injury or bad form but it's always a possibility.


----------



## ElChapo

AnabolicGyno said:


> 6'2 103kg, maybe a true 15% bf not sure. Definitely don't think I'm that advanced yet. Macros usually roughly around 300/1000/90, thinking I'll up protein a bit.


 If you need more calories add more carbs, it will be easier and it's the best fuel for muscle growth. Excess protein does not convert to muscle and makes it harder to eat more.


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> Would 700mg test e 700mg tren a keep muscles full on a -1.2k?


 As full as they can be. You need the muscle to be filled with glycogen for fullness, but anabolics will help mitigate flatness on carb depleted diet somewhat. Carb refeeds will usually keep you pretty full on a cut though, or

you can keep fat intake very low, and eat mostly carbs and the minimum protein required for muscle retention ( my own method)


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Dnp question here for @ElChapo
> 
> I've ran poser dnp at 250mg and 500mg. 500mg sapped the life out of me, however the results were excellent.
> 
> I can get crystal dnp now in 100mg tabs and as far as I can learn via the Internet the difference is that crystal is weaker but peaks faster and higher with a shorter half life. Is this true?
> 
> The thought process being I can dose I before bed yet come workout time the following day since its tapered off I shouldn't be as fkd as I was when I ran powder, which to my understanding peaks slower buy has a 36 hour half life. Essentially I was sweating all the time for two weeks on 500mg and could barely workout longer than 25 mins, cardio at 110bom was murder too lol.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 The difference will be minimal. I recommend EC stack to mitigate the energy depleting effects of DNP and stave off hunger pangs. It works very well and will enhance the fat loss and make the cut more bearable.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Only 50mg on waking.
> 
> It's mainly on heavy deadlifts. I'm pretty sure it's not an injury or bad form but it's always a possibility.


 Yeah, heavy deadlifts are gonna lead to back pump fairly easily on most anabolics since you are directly working the lower back muscles. There isn't much you can do about it, some people say taurine works for them, i just deal with it. It does suck.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Does progressive overload always work best in terms of strength gains, or is that just the easily measured.

i was so focused for years on numbers increasing, set workouts, routines etc.

Not going to lie, I've bascially dropped all that, do higher volume higher rep high frequency (2x a week still) work.

Getting in and out as fast as I can, low rest times, choosing whatever excercise or machine is free.

And I've made the best progress I ever have in the last 6 months. I enjoy it a lot more as well.

I still monitor strength on the core lifts (when I do , do them), but barely pay 1/5th of the attention I used to.

Perhaps my body responds better to this style of training?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Does progressive overload always work best in terms of strength gains, or is that just the easily measured.
> 
> i was so focused for years on numbers increasing, set workouts, routines etc.
> 
> Not going to lie, I've bascially dropped all that, do higher volume higher rep high frequency (2x a week still) work.
> 
> Getting in and out as fast as I can, low rest times, choosing whatever excercise or machine is free.
> 
> And I've made the best progress I ever have in the last 6 months. I enjoy it a lot more as well.
> 
> I still monitor strength on the core lifts (when I do , do them), but barely pay 1/5th of the attention I used to.
> 
> Perhaps my body responds better to this style of training?


 It's easy to measure and it works well. The best gains in mass will come from mixing both together.

Some people do also respond better to different types of training and it can also be that the new stimulis is inciting new growth.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

Fat Cells...

Is the number decided at birth?

Do they increase in number the fatter one gets?

once you have them or accumulate more can one naturally reduce them again?

seems to be a lot of conflicting views on this one when I have Googled


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Fat Cells...
> 
> Is the number decided at birth?
> 
> Do they increase in number the fatter one gets?
> 
> once you have them or accumulate more can one naturally reduce them again?
> 
> seems to be a lot of conflicting views on this one when I have Googled


 Usually by adult hood the maximum amount is reached, after that, they either shrink or grow. The only way to decrease or increase the actual amount is through surgery.


----------



## Lancashiregent

^



ElChapo said:


> Usually by adult hood the maximum amount is reached, after that, they either shrink or grow. The only way to decrease or increase the actual amount is through surgery.


 Is it true that fat cells can grow in number at puberty if a bad diet is followed at this crucial time?

I was once given this explanation by a trainer who once asked if I had been obese due to fat round the midsection but low fat levels at most other typical fat storage locations in the body.

I haven't been obese by the way, just very hard to shift mid-section fat.


----------



## feelinfine

What's the best drug to really harden a physique if you are already very lean? Aside from tren.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> ^
> 
> Is it true that fat cells can grow in number at puberty if a bad diet is followed at this crucial time?
> 
> I was once given this explanation by a trainer who once asked if I had been obese due to fat round the midsection but low fat levels at most other typical fat storage locations in the body.
> 
> I haven't been obese by the way, just very hard to shift mid-section fat.


 Theoretically yes, however, mid-section fat is normal even for those who were never really fat. This fat is rich in alpha 2 receptors, so they are more resistant to catecholamine(adrenaline) induced fat mobilization. This is why this is usually the last fat to go, and the most stubborn, versus the arms/shoulders which are rich in beta receptors and a lot more sensitive to lipid mobilizing effects of catecholamines. Yohimbine blocks the alpha receptors, ephedrine activates beta receptors. Both lead to enhanced fat loss in a caloric deficit.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> What's the best drug to really harden a physique if you are already very lean? Aside from tren.


 Winstrol, no question. Masteron will give some polish, but for dryness/hardness, winstrol.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol, no question. Masteron will give some polish, but for dryness/hardness, winstrol.


 Interesting. I read that it really dries out your joints though? Is that true and if so how do I counter that? What would be the minimum effective dose of winstrol just stacked with ~400mg test? All I am looking for is hardness and separation. Not concerned with strength or large mass gains.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Interesting. I read that it really dries out your joints though? Is that true and if so how do I counter that? What would be the minimum effective dose of winstrol just stacked with ~400mg test? All I am looking for is hardness and separation. Not concerned with strength or large mass gains.


 50-100 mg is the usual dosing. Most people don't get any joint issues, but many will swear by it. You won't know if you're affected until you try it and you asked me what the best compound is. You could drop test to 150 mg per week if you want to maximize hardness/dryness.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> 50-100 mg is the usual dosing. Most people don't get any joint issues, but many will swear by it. You won't know if you're affected until you try it and you asked me what the best compound is. You could drop test to 150 mg per week if you want to maximize hardness/dryness.


 Just tried running test for a few weeks to gauge where I felt the best. Around 300-400mg was where I felt good. Anything higher and I felt bloated and heavy. Anything less I didn't even feel like I was on aas. Do you inject or drink your winstrol? On a related topic - how do you feel about anavar? As I mentioned earlier, my main goal is hardness and separation while trying to have dry gains. Thanks for your input so far. Appreciate it.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Just tried running test for a few weeks to gauge where I felt the best. Around 300-400mg was where I felt good. Anything higher and I felt bloated and heavy. Anything less I didn't even feel like I was on aas. Do you inject or drink your winstrol? On a related topic - how do you feel about anavar? As I mentioned earlier, my main goal is hardness and separation while trying to have dry gains. Thanks for your input so far. Appreciate it.


 Injectable has a longer half life, easier on the liver, kicks in faster and takes less. It's harder to find than oral and can cause pip. Anavar is decent, great for women. Not as drying as winstrol, but more mild.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo

Do you know whether Winstrol cause diarreha or gastroenteric issues? I am on 50mg oral Winstrol.


----------



## capo

@ElChapo I have some left over Tudca and got some Udca on the way ,going to use 500 mg,would using them both together be better or just finishing up one and carry on with the other ,is the pharma version better or taurine conjugate version better heard conflicting views.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do you know whether Winstrol cause diarreha or gastroenteric issues? I am on 50mg oral Winstrol.


 Some people get GI issues with orals. You can take with food or get an injectable product to deal with the issue.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo I have some left over Tudca and got some Udca on the way ,going to use 500 mg,would using them both together be better or just finishing up one and carry on with the other ,is the pharma version better or taurine conjugate version better heard conflicting views.


 TUDCA has higher bioavailability, generally the effect is the same. UDCA has the advantage of having a pharmaceutical grade preparation.

I would use them seperately, interchangeably.


----------



## AllKindOfReckless

ElChapo said:


> Personally, i blast/cruise. I don't run HCG as i have no plan on having kids and testicular atrophy is minor for me even on tren. I have reached my lifetime physique goals so i have no reason to blast anymore. The way i see it, if i can keep my androgen levels at optimal levels for a benefit in work performance, cognition, sex, and sports, i will do it. One of the best decisions i ever made was to blast and cruise. Again, this is a personal decision and not one to be taken lightly. The improved energy and focus in work alone was enough to make it all worth it. Pinning with a* 30 g 5/16th inch slin pin* is literally painless, i don't feel a thing and look forward to pinning. I have a lifetime supply of testosterone enanthate raws, so i'm covered on that end. My doctor knows and supports my use and helps me keep track of everything. I can't deny that i am blessed.


 Which muscle can you hit with that gauge and size slin pin? I'd prefer doing all my injections that way as well. Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

AllKindOfReckless said:


> Which muscle can you hit with that gauge and size slin pin? I'd prefer doing all my injections that way as well. Thanks.


 Any muscle as long as you are lean enough(12% and under for most people)

I mostly use insulin needles/syringes unless volume is higher. Then i opt for 25 gauge/3cc/1 inch.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> Injectable has a longer half life, easier on the liver, kicks in faster and takes less. It's harder to find than oral and can cause pip. Anavar is decent, great for women. Not as drying as winstrol, but more mild.


 Interesting. One more question - do you have any experience with primo? Getting mixed results from my research. Some people love it and say it's the best drug out there. Others say it is weak and overpriced.


----------



## Doitagain

I have a question about Dutasteride.

In a hair loss study, Duta at 0.5mg a day caused a 27% increase in serum Testosterone while -SCALP- Testosterone rose 104% , yet subjects experienced significant hair regrowth. It looks like Testosterone itself has no effect on hair follicles.

You think a fair regrowth would be possible with Duta when using 500-600mg exogenous Test?

Also, would the concomitant use of an AI hinder any regrowth?


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

Hey, Another quick question. I'm on really high test 1200mg per week. I'm having trouble in the gym advancing through Str and lifting. It's not that I can't really push the weight, but My tendons and joints in shoulders, back, feet....everything just hurts..I know that i've read simply taking 250mg of test per week alone reduces repair rate of joints and tendons that take a beating in the gym by over 80% and I can't imagine that being setup with 1200mg. I've been taking anadrol, eq and tren as well, hoping that one of these compounds might relief tendons/joints, but the only time I had my strongest str and felt perfect was when I blasted 1000mg deca. I don't have anymore though. Can u suggest something to aide? Should I try to switch to lighter weight and higher reps (not doing too many sets though, more like pump-squeeze to failure). I'm used to doing 3-4 sets heavy weights in the rep ranges going from something like 8-10, 6-8, 4-6.....


----------



## Jordan08

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey, Another quick question. I'm on really high test 1200mg per week. I'm having trouble in the gym advancing through Str and lifting. It's not that I can't really push the weight, but My tendons and joints in shoulders, back, feet....everything just hurts..I know that i've read simply taking 250mg of test per week alone reduces repair rate of joints and tendons that take a beating in the gym by over 80% and I can't imagine that being setup with 1200mg. I've been taking anadrol, eq and tren as well, hoping that one of these compounds might relief tendons/joints, but the only time I had my strongest str and felt perfect was when I blasted 1000mg deca. I don't have anymore though. Can u suggest something to aide? Should I try to switch to lighter weight and higher reps (not doing too many sets though, more like pump-squeeze to failure). I'm used to doing 3-4 sets heavy weights in the rep ranges going from something like 8-10, 6-8, 4-6.....


 What's your E2 ?


----------



## mmichael

Jatin Bhatia said:


> What's your E2 ?


 I don't have the extra money for blood work so I go by feel. I've been raising my AI every week by .2ml.

Aiming to get to 2mg adex e3d alongside 1.2g test e per week. I know that 600mg test and 1mg adex does pretty good for me, but I don't think this is the case of high e2... I've had high e2 before on dbol and no proper adex, was bloated, but no problems back then.


----------



## Devil

mmichael said:


> I don't have the extra money for blood work so I go by feel. I've been raising my AI every week by .2ml.
> 
> Aiming to get to 2mg adex e3d alongside 1.2g test e per week. I know that 600mg test and 1mg adex does pretty good for me, but I don't think this is the case of high e2... I've had high e2 before on dbol and no proper adex, was bloated, but no problems back then.


 You can run like 2g of gear a week but can't afford a £35 E2 test?

priorities mate...half the gear and get bloods...


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, heavy deadlifts are gonna lead to back pump fairly easily on most anabolics since you are directly working the lower back muscles. There isn't much you can do about it, some people say taurine works for them, i just deal with it. It does suck.


 Dropped the Winstrol over a week ago and breezed thru heavy Deadlifts today setting a new 1 Rep Max. It was nice not having to walk around the gym like I'd share myself afterwards.

Is pump something that happens with all orals to a degree? I remember on Anavar I got a slight back pump/ache climbing up and down ladders.

Trying to think of what to use at the start of my next Tren E cycle to "kickstart" it instead of Winstrol. Could NPP be an option until the Tren E starts to work?


----------



## JUICE1

MrBishi said:


> Dropped the Winstrol over a week ago and breezed thru heavy Deadlifts today setting a new 1 Rep Max. It was nice not having to walk around the gym like I'd share myself afterwards.
> 
> Is pump something that happens with all orals to a degree? I remember on Anavar I got a slight back pump/ache climbing up and down ladders.
> 
> Trying to think of what to use at the start of my next Tren E cycle to "kickstart" it instead of Winstrol. Could NPP be an option until the Tren E starts to work?


 Electrolyte Power from BulkPowders/MyProtein + Taurine seems to really reduce back pump on squats + deadlifts on orals for me. It might just be the Taurine doing the work but I'm not sure, I think previously I've used Taurine solo and I can't remember it helping as much.


----------



## drwae

MrBishi said:


> Dropped the Winstrol over a week ago and breezed thru heavy Deadlifts today setting a new 1 Rep Max. It was nice not having to walk around the gym like I'd share myself afterwards.
> 
> Is pump something that happens with all orals to a degree? I remember on Anavar I got a slight back pump/ache climbing up and down ladders.
> 
> Trying to think of what to use at the start of my next Tren E cycle to "kickstart" it instead of Winstrol. Could NPP be an option until the Tren E starts to work?


 Why use npp instead of tren a? fwiw I started tren e 6 days ago and already have mental and physical effects


----------



## MrBishi

drwae said:


> Why use npp instead of tren a? fwiw I started tren e 6 days ago and already have mental and physical effects


 Because your probably never gonna hit the right spot as they both start to work.

And I'm sure when they both do I'll be on a gram of Tren and either rape my wife or be caught masturbating in public.

The mental/physical side started to show by week two or so for me on Tren E, but the strength increases have been awesome after five odd weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Interesting. One more question - do you have any experience with primo? Getting mixed results from my research. Some people love it and say it's the best drug out there. Others say it is weak and overpriced.


 Never really payed it much mind, test, tren, winstrol, insulin/gh is all you will ever need for any goal. I see no reason for it.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> I have a question about Dutasteride.
> 
> In a hair loss study, Duta at 0.5mg a day caused a 27% increase in serum Testosterone while -SCALP- Testosterone rose 104% , yet subjects experienced significant hair regrowth. It looks like Testosterone itself has no effect on hair follicles.
> 
> You think a fair regrowth would be possible with Duta when using 500-600mg exogenous Test?
> 
> Also, would the concomitant use of an AI hinder any regrowth?


 The testosterone increases since less of it is converted to DHT. Testosterone is a lot less androgenic than DHT. Without conversion to DHT, its actually a pretty mild androgen on its own in comparison.

I doubt AI will hinder hair growth since your are nuking DHT. Remember, men who dont produce DHT never bald. Its one of the main culprits for MPB, but the full pathology behind androgentic alopecia is still kind of a mystery.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey, Another quick question. I'm on really high test 1200mg per week. I'm having trouble in the gym advancing through Str and lifting. It's not that I can't really push the weight, but My tendons and joints in shoulders, back, feet....everything just hurts..I know that i've read simply taking 250mg of test per week alone reduces repair rate of joints and tendons that take a beating in the gym by over 80% and I can't imagine that being setup with 1200mg. I've been taking anadrol, eq and tren as well, hoping that one of these compounds might relief tendons/joints, but the only time I had my strongest str and felt perfect was when I blasted 1000mg deca. I don't have anymore though. Can u suggest something to aide? Should I try to switch to lighter weight and higher reps (not doing too many sets though, more like pump-squeeze to failure). I'm used to doing 3-4 sets heavy weights in the rep ranges going from something like 8-10, 6-8, 4-6.....


 What was the last time you took a FULL break?

Take 2 weeks off from all lifting, your joints will feel amazing. They dont repair as quickly as muscles, so even though your muscles recover from your workouts, the damage to the joints slowly adds up and doesnt get better. Give it 2 weeks. You will not lose any strength or muscle, promise. (Takes 3-4 weeks to even begin to lose muscle/strength)


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> I don't have the extra money for blood work so I go by feel. I've been raising my AI every week by .2ml.
> 
> Aiming to get to 2mg adex e3d alongside 1.2g test e per week. I know that 600mg test and 1mg adex does pretty good for me, but I don't think this is the case of high e2... I've had high e2 before on dbol and no proper adex, was bloated, but no problems back then.


 Jason has a good point about the E2, low E2 will make your joints feel like brittle glass.

I would look at that 2 week break i suggested and make sure your E2 isnt too low.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Dropped the Winstrol over a week ago and breezed thru heavy Deadlifts today setting a new 1 Rep Max. It was nice not having to walk around the gym like I'd share myself afterwards.
> 
> Is pump something that happens with all orals to a degree? I remember on Anavar I got a slight back pump/ache climbing up and down ladders.
> 
> Trying to think of what to use at the start of my next Tren E cycle to "kickstart" it instead of Winstrol. Could NPP be an option until the Tren E starts to work?


 Short esters will usually kick in 2-3 weeks instead of 4-6 with long esters. You could start off with acetate, NPP would probably take 2 and half to 3 weeks.

Some people are sensitive to different sides from androgens. My friend gets pissed easily on tren, i get heart burn. We both get hypoglycemic. It varies from person to person. Many people get back pumps from dbol, i never had that problem with it, but high tren gave me nasty back pumps when trying to run.

You just have to experiment and find the cocktail that works for your individual goals.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Because your probably never gonna hit the right spot as they both start to work.
> 
> And I'm sure when they both do I'll be on a gram of Tren and either rape my wife or be caught masturbating in public.
> 
> The mental/physical side started to show by week two or so for me on Tren E, but the strength increases have been awesome after five odd weeks.


 So you're a fast responder, dont bother with the kickstart then. Myself, it takes me 6 weeks to feel the longer esters.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> The testosterone increases since less of it is converted to DHT. Testosterone is a lot less androgenic than DHT. Without conversion to DHT, its actually a pretty mild androgen on its own in comparison.
> 
> I doubt AI will hinder hair growth since your are nuking DHT. Remember, men who dont produce DHT never bald. Its one of the main culprits for MPB, but the full pathology behind androgentic alopecia is still kind of a mystery.


 Yeah, interestingly 2.5mg Duta caused an ever larger scalp Testosterone increase (150%) and hair regrowth was even more substantial. So you think it's reasonable to expect (or have ever seen) actual regrowth on 500-600mg Test/week alongside Duta? I'm not aware of any study that ever bothered checking scalp T level variations on different doses of exogenous Test.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo sorry if this has been asked already but what are your thoughts on prov and where is it's place?

I see so many conflicting reviews on it I've always avoided

some say they use on a cruise whilst others run on every cycle. Some for libido some for free testosterone.

Then you get others say it's a complete waste of time


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo anything popping out the paper to you from this blood work of mine


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo you touched on it briefly above and said both you and a friend get hypoglycemic on tren. This happened in July with me and again four weeks ago. Severely, I passed out the second time. Why does tren cause this? On both occasions I had eaten the hour beforehand, although was late afternoon and I hadn't eaten very much, I had still eaten. I've previous tried fasting etc and never went hypo so was confused.

I actually Dropped the tren due to acid reflux, even after trying apple cider vinegar and digestive enzymes. Essentially I don't think I can use tren again due to the above unless I went with ace and could counter the Gerd effect.

Lahsykt, off topic, do you buy into people's bro science/theory that you become desensitised to dnp he more you use it? Ie 500mg for 3 weeks on run one is more effective than 500mg for 3 weeks on run 4 which might be a year+ later? (or do you just get used to the sides and display fewer?)

Any help /info appreciated. Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo anything popping out the paper to you from this blood work of mine


 Looks good, hdl a bit low, liver enzymes a bit high. Using tren or orals? Otherwise not bad.

CK and bun/creatinine are elevated but this can be from hard training, high protein intake.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Yeah, interestingly 2.5mg Duta caused an ever larger scalp Testosterone increase (150%) and hair regrowth was even more substantial. So you think it's reasonable to expect (or have ever seen) actual regrowth on 500-600mg Test/week alongside Duta? I'm not aware of any study that ever bothered checking scalp T level variations on different doses of exogenous Test.


 If the dutasteride nukes the DHT sufficiently, taking into account the severity and genetic sensitivity of the individual, it would be possible.

A full dose of dutasteride is supposed to stop over 95% of 5 alpha reduction.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo sorry if this has been asked already but what are your thoughts on prov and where is it's place?
> 
> I see so many conflicting reviews on it I've always avoided
> 
> some say they use on a cruise whilst others run on every cycle. Some for libido some for free testosterone.
> 
> Then you get others say it's a complete waste of time


 It's been used for depression and male sexual dysfunction. I would try it if you are looking for a libido/mood boost. You gotta try it for yourself and see if it works for you.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo you touched on it brimful above and said both you and a friend get hypoglycemic on tren. This happened in July with me and again four weeks ago. Severely, I passed out the second time. Why does tren cause this? On both occasions I had eaten the hour beforehand, although was late afternoon and I hadn't eaten very much.
> 
> I actually Dropped the tren due to acid reflux, even after trying apple cider vinegar and digestive enzymes. Essentially I don't think I can use tren again due to the above unless I went with ace and could counter the Gerd effect.
> 
> Lahsykt, off topic, do you buy into people's bro science/theory that you become desensitised to dnp he more you use it? Ie 500mg for 3 weeks on run one is more effective than 500mg for 3 weeks on run 4 which might be a year+ later? (or do you just get used to the sides and display fewer?)
> 
> Any help /info appreciated. Cheers.


 It seems like tren enhances insulin and IGF action in the body. (The latter is documented in studies on bovine)

I only get reflux on enanthate at higher doses. Tren still works very well at 150-300 mg per week for polishing physique and body recomp.

The mechanism behind DNP makes me think this wouldnt happen, but the body tends to hold on to fat more the leaner you get, so this could be why people notice something. otherwise, i believe this is false.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Looks good, hdl a bit low, liver enzymes a bit high. Using tren or orals? Otherwise not bad.
> 
> CK and bun/creatinine are elevated but this can be from hard training, high protein intake.


 damn good eye

i was on exactly that at the time (bloods couple months old)

tren and anadrol to be precise

hammered the best cycle support on the market and got things rectified with a bit of cruising also


----------



## AllKindOfReckless

Been reading through the whole thread slowly and I am going to start my cycle of 200mg test-e and 300mg tren-e for 12¬ weeks shortly, everywhere else ive been reading tren causes prolactin ( leaky nipples etc ) so I must use 1mg of caber a week to prevent this but in one of your posts you said this was a myth? So should I just be running my AI and thats it?

Appreciate all your posts in here btw, you're a wealth of information!


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> damn good eye
> 
> i was on exactly that at the time (bloods couple months old)
> 
> tren and anadrol to be precise
> 
> hammered the best cycle support on the market and got things rectified with a bit of cruising also


 Great labs for being on those two compounds, it shows.


----------



## ElChapo

AllKindOfReckless said:


> Been reading through the whole thread slowly and I am going to start my cycle of 200mg test-e and 300mg tren-e for 12¬ weeks shortly, everywhere else ive been reading tren causes prolactin ( leaky nipples etc ) so I must use 1mg of caber a week to prevent this but in one of your posts you said this was a myth? So should I just be running my AI and thats it?
> 
> Appreciate all your posts in here btw, you're a wealth of information!


 Run your AI, if you get gyno, run raloxifene. Cabergoline can still work to help treat some of the mood issues and libido problems that tren can cause. Look at most people on tren, their prolactin is normal.


----------



## mmichael

Devil said:


> You can run like 2g of gear a week but can't afford a £35 E2 test?
> 
> priorities mate...half the gear and get bloods...


 Bloods in the US are 75$ private. I saved up for a while for the cycle and kept it on hand and I already spend a load of money on other things, especially food for my diet and for my baby.... so yes 75 is a load to me....



ElChapo said:


> What was the last time you took a FULL break?
> 
> Take 2 weeks off from all lifting, your joints will feel amazing. They dont repair as quickly as muscles, so even though your muscles recover from your workouts, the damage to the joints slowly adds up and doesnt get better. Give it 2 weeks. You will not lose any strength or muscle, promise. (Takes 3-4 weeks to even begin to lose muscle/strength)


 I never really take a break, I cruise on 500-600mg test yearly, but i never had any issues on that dosage.. It can't be low e2. I've had the best boners I've ever had in my life this cycle. I get hard like a rock before i have to even take a pee it's so crazy. I took 2 weeks off leg days. (no on purpose, for certain reasons, holidays/girl had to work missed gym, felt bad 2 of the days). I came back and hit them last monday and I actually felt WORSE in the lifts, they were weaker and I didn't even do squats cause I was worried...

I can't really take a break. I just loaded the gear I been on to max dosage basically now and it's going for 20 weeks. so taking 2-3 weeks off seems kind of pointless...Do u think I should try to lower the adex dosage, maybe it's too high, but it doesnt make sense with how my libido feels. I am on 15mg cia everyday though...


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> Bloods in the US are 75$ private. I saved up for a while for the cycle and kept it on hand and I already spend a load of money on other things, especially food for my diet and for my baby.... so yes 75 is a load to me....
> 
> I never really take a break, I cruise on 500-600mg test yearly, but i never had any issues on that dosage.. It can't be low e2. I've had the best boners I've ever had in my life this cycle. I get hard like a rock before i have to even take a pee it's so crazy. I took 2 weeks off leg days. (no on purpose, for certain reasons, holidays/girl had to work missed gym, felt bad 2 of the days). I came back and hit them last monday and I actually felt WORSE in the lifts, they were weaker and I didn't even do squats cause I was worried...
> 
> I can't really take a break. I just loaded the gear I been on to max dosage basically now and it's going for 20 weeks. so taking 2-3 weeks off seems kind of pointless...Do u think I should try to lower the adex dosage, maybe it's too high, but it doesnt make sense with how my libido feels. I am on 15mg cia everyday though...


 Those are the only two things i can suggest for you. Maybe the day you came back was on off day. You can't lose strength or muscle in 2 weeks. It could have been an off day or a mental thing.


----------



## AllKindOfReckless

ElChapo said:


> Run your AI, if you get gyno, run raloxifene. Cabergoline can still work to help treat some of the mood issues and libido problems that tren can cause. Look at most people on tren, their prolactin is normal.


 If money wasn't really a issue, I could just run raloxifene throughout the cycle which will prevent it from happening in the first place right?

@ElChapo

Also on a more serious note I just took some pre cycle bloods to make sure everything's in order (I don't plan to start my cycle for another month or two) and they aint amazing but something is really sticking out and worrying me.



















My creatine kinase level seems really alarming lol and at this level it could literally be rhabdomyolysis right? But the thing is I've also not trained for 6 months and just got back into it last week so obviously my muscles are under a lot of stress and pretty sure I've picked up a few small injures already (they ain't painful but the type you can feel but you kind of just push through them) and I didn't sleep that well the night before the test so could these be reasons for such a high level? I'm thinking just taking a rest for a few days and re-running the test to see if its gone down at all before I see a doctor? Thanks for your help bro.


----------



## Jonk891

AllKindOfReckless said:


> If money wasn't really a issue, I could just run raloxifene throughout the cycle which will prevent it from happening in the first place right?
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> Also on a more serious note I just took some pre cycle bloods to make sure everything's in order (I don't plan to start my cycle for another month or two) and they aint amazing but something is really sticking out and worrying me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My creatine kinase level seems really alarming lol and at this level it could literally be rhabdomyolysis right? But the thing is I've also not trained for 6 months and just got back into it last week so obviously my muscles are under a lot of stress and pretty sure I've picked up a few small injures already (they ain't painful but the type you can feel but you kind of just push through them) and I didn't sleep that well the night before the test so could these be reasons for such a high level? I'm thinking just taking a rest for a few days and re-running the test to see if its gone down at all before I see a doctor? Thanks for your help bro.


 I carry a few injuries including osteoarthritis and my sleep is terrible mine came back just over 300 and I got worried. Yours look high but its when they start hitting towards the 10 thousand mark and continue rising something is wrong


----------



## bornagod

AllKindOfReckless said:


> If money wasn't really a issue, I could just run raloxifene throughout the cycle which will prevent it from happening in the first place right?
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> Also on a more serious note I just took some pre cycle bloods to make sure everything's in order (I don't plan to start my cycle for another month or two) and they aint amazing but something is really sticking out and worrying me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My creatine kinase level seems really alarming lol and at this level it could literally be rhabdomyolysis right? But the thing is I've also not trained for 6 months and just got back into it last week so obviously my muscles are under a lot of stress and pretty sure I've picked up a few small injures already (they ain't painful but the type you can feel but you kind of just push through them) and I didn't sleep that well the night before the test so could these be reasons for such a high level? I'm thinking just taking a rest for a few days and re-running the test to see if its gone down at all before I see a doctor? Thanks for your help bro.


 Taken from an abstract i read online-

CK is made up of three enzyme forms. These are CK-MB, CK-MM, and CK-BB. CK-MB is the substance that rises if your heart muscle is damaged. CK-MM rises with other muscle damage. CK-BB is found mostly in the brain.

so id say it was just from you returning to training from a long lay off and it'll probably be ck-mm that is elavated


----------



## AllKindOfReckless

Jonk891 said:


> I carry a few injuries including osteoarthritis and my sleep is terrible mine came back just over 300 and I got worried. Yours look high but its when they start hitting towards the 10 thousand mark and continue rising something is wrong


 Haha I am still shitting my pants, if it was 300 I'd be fine but mines like 20x the higher end recommended amount


----------



## Devil

AllKindOfReckless said:


> Haha I am still shitting my pants, if it was 300 I'd be fine but mines like 20x the higher end recommended amount


 I had 16000 after returning to training and smashing it, don't worry.

Went and got an ECG etc heart was perfect


----------



## AllKindOfReckless

Devil said:


> I had 16000 after returning to training and smashing it, don't worry.
> 
> Went and got an ECG etc heart was perfect


 That's definitely put me at ease thank you :thumb , 16000 though Jesus you done well!


----------



## Jonk891

AllKindOfReckless said:


> That's definitely put me at ease thank you :thumb , 16000 though Jesus you done well!


 Made me feel like I just won the lotto


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo what to see some funny E2 blood work?

600 TestE 400 TrenE 140 W 3.5 Adex ew

fu**ing Tren.... it ruined my reading on E2


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Do you think that 100iu HCG eod can substitute a dose of Test? It can be useful to use it since our estrogens will live less time than exogenous ones.


----------



## superdrol

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do you think that 100iu HCG eod can substitute a dose of Test? It can be useful to use it since our estrogens will live less time than exogenous ones.


 Not sure what you mean, any estrogen is naturally produced so will last the same as any other, extra test in the body will cause extra estrogen to be made, so none of it is exogenous?


----------



## SlinMeister

superdrol said:


> Not sure what you mean, any estrogen is naturally produced so will last the same as any other, extra test in the body will cause extra estrogen to be made, so none of it is exogenous?


 When you take exogenous Test it converts continuously right?

HCG should last a couple of days....

In the end E2 should be lower.....

It's just a brain fart.....


----------



## ElChapo

AllKindOfReckless said:


> If money wasn't really a issue, I could just run raloxifene throughout the cycle which will prevent it from happening in the first place right?
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> Also on a more serious note I just took some pre cycle bloods to make sure everything's in order (I don't plan to start my cycle for another month or two) and they aint amazing but something is really sticking out and worrying me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My creatine kinase level seems really alarming lol and at this level it could literally be rhabdomyolysis right? But the thing is I've also not trained for 6 months and just got back into it last week so obviously my muscles are under a lot of stress and pretty sure I've picked up a few small injures already (they ain't painful but the type you can feel but you kind of just push through them) and I didn't sleep that well the night before the test so could these be reasons for such a high level? I'm thinking just taking a rest for a few days and re-running the test to see if its gone down at all before I see a doctor? Thanks for your help bro.


 Likely due to the muscle damage from starting up training again.

You can run ralox through the cycle, you might not experience gyno with tren. not everyone does, but you should have ralox on hand. Nolvadex works as well, easier to find, but not as effective and has harsher sides.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do you think that 100iu HCG eod can substitute a dose of Test? It can be useful to use it since our estrogens will live less time than exogenous ones.


 Not always as some people's testes will not respond to gonadotropins enough to get a good testosterone level.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Not always as some people's testes will not respond to gonadotropins enough to get a good testosterone level.


 It's a pleasure to have you there!!! THANKS! <3


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> Bloods in the US are 75$ private. I saved up for a while for the cycle and kept it on hand and I already spend a load of money on other things, especially food for my diet and for my baby.... so yes 75 is a load to me....
> 
> I never really take a break, I cruise on 500-600mg test yearly, but i never had any issues on that dosage.. It can't be low e2. I've had the best boners I've ever had in my life this cycle. I get hard like a rock before i have to even take a pee it's so crazy. I took 2 weeks off leg days. (no on purpose, for certain reasons, holidays/girl had to work missed gym, felt bad 2 of the days). I came back and hit them last monday and I actually felt WORSE in the lifts, they were weaker and I didn't even do squats cause I was worried...
> 
> I can't really take a break. I just loaded the gear I been on to max dosage basically now and it's going for 20 weeks. so taking 2-3 weeks off seems kind of pointless...Do u think I should try to lower the adex dosage, maybe it's too high, but it doesnt make sense with how my libido feels. I am on 15mg cia everyday though...


 If you haven't already, check out discountedlabs.com, they have the best prices. You can get total and free t for 30 dollars (with the level cap). The LC/MS is about 70 bucks (for levels over 1,500 ng/dL or under 150 ng/dL)

https://www.discountedlabs.com/testosterone-total-and-free-regular/


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

How do you rate EQUIPOISE?

How do you rate DECA?

How do you rate PRIMOBOLAN?

I am very interested about your opinion since i would like to do next bulk on Test EQ PRIMO but i am a bit unsure if those AAS will build more REAL TISSUE than DECA.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> How do you rate EQUIPOISE?
> 
> How do you rate DECA?
> 
> How do you rate PRIMOBOLAN?
> 
> I am very interested about your opinion since i would like to do next bulk on Test EQ PRIMO but i am a bit unsure if those AAS will build more REAL TISSUE than DECA.


 Nandrolone/Deca is cool; versatile, effective and fairly mild androgen. Cheap and easy to find, not very androgenic but helps with strength, muscle and joints. Can be used by intermediate-advanced females through bikini-figure or added to HRT for men. Side effects can include libido, erection difficulties and gyno but most get on well with nandrolone and NPP clears fast.

I don't think much of EQ and primo honestly, test, tren, winstrol will do it all, but better. People put too much attention and time into researching exotic hormones which detracts from what matters the most ; training and diet. They think what their physique is missing is a new drug or that somehow it will break a plateau they are currently experiencing.

I have seen many guys running high dose test and tren for long periods and they look like they don't train due to lack of training and diet knowledge. Some guys get away with it due to good genetics and response to the drugs, other aren't so lucky.

A quick search finds something like this:

http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?65175-Coming-off-tren-after-2-years-blast-what-to-expect

A young guy blasting high dose tren and test for 2 years who looks like a natural lifter at best. ^


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Nandrolone/Deca is cool; versatile, effective and fairly mild androgen. Cheap and easy to find, not very androgenic but helps with strength, muscle and joints. Can be used by intermediate-advanced females through bikini-figure or added to HRT. Side effects can include libido, erection difficulties and gyno but most get on well with nandrolone.
> 
> I don't think much of EQ and primo honestly, test, tren, winstrol will do it all, but better. People put too much attention and time into researching exotic hormones which detracts from what matters the most ; training and diet. They think what their physique is missing is a new drug or that somehow it will break a plateau.
> 
> I have seen many guys running 600 mg-1 gram test and tren and they look like they dont train.
> 
> A quick search finds something like this:
> 
> http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?65175-Coming-off-tren-after-2-years-blast-what-to-expect
> 
> A young guy blasting high dose tren and test for 2 years who looks like a natural lifter at best. ^


 Wow, surely his gear was bunk.

thats unbelievable lol

Doesn't even look like a good natty lifter


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Wow, surely his gear was bunk.
> 
> thats unbelievable lol
> 
> Doesn't even look like a good natty lifter


 Probably legit, his liver enzymes were elevated in his blood work, likely from trenbolone.

I know people just like that guy using legitimate tren at high doses looking worse than this guy. My other friend used to same exact stuff around the same time and looked freaky/yoked.


----------



## Lancashiregent

@ElChapo

Recent bloodwork showed out of range Ferritin levels but iron levels were well in range.

Indeed, whenever I donate blood and they do the fingerpick test and put a drop of blood in the solution, they always comment that it 'drops like a stone' indicating good iron levels.

Is an out of range Ferritin level anything to be concerned about and what can be done about it?

Would iron tablets be of any benefit? I'm not sure how effective they will be as my iron levels are already well in range.


----------



## Rockstar61811

Hi @ElChapo how accurate are ECGs? I recently pulled a muscle in my chest and it cramped slightly while I was reading an article about hearts which made me panic and I nearly passed out - looking back I over reacted and brought on the symptoms by panicking. I went to hospital to make sure and they did an ECG, blood test and x Ray...X-ray and blood tests where fine but ecg showed something that the doctor said was quite common but not normal (he said it was not worth even mentioning as it's normal but not normal if that makes any sense)...anyway they want me to wear a 24 hr monitor....are ECGs accurate?


----------



## superdrol

Rockstar61811 said:


> Hi @ElChapo how accurate are ECGs? I recently pulled a muscle in my chest and it cramped slightly while I was reading an article about hearts which made me panic and I nearly passed out - looking back I over reacted and brought on the symptoms by panicking. I went to hospital to make sure and they did an ECG, blood test and x Ray...X-ray and blood tests where fine but ecg showed something that the doctor said was quite common but not normal (he said it was not worth even mentioning as it's normal but not normal if that makes any sense)...anyway they want me to wear a 24 hr monitor....are ECGs accurate?


 Why would you think an ecg wasn't accurate?


----------



## Rockstar61811

Because I have heard of faulse postives as well as mistakes in way the device is hooked up, also would a doctor expect a different outcome based on if someone had an athletic enlarged heart.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Recent bloodwork showed out of range Ferritin levels but iron levels were well in range.
> 
> Indeed, whenever I donate blood and they do the fingerpick test and put a drop of blood in the solution, they always comment that it 'drops like a stone' indicating good iron levels.
> 
> Is an out of range Ferritin level anything to be concerned about and what can be done about it?
> 
> Would iron tablets be of any benefit? I'm not sure how effective they will be as my iron levels are already well in range.


 Ferritin is actually a protein that helps carry iron around the body. High ferritin with normal iron could signal some diseases but not my area of expertise. Sometimes liver disease, inflammation or. hyperthyroid could elevate it. It could be benign, i wouldnt know.


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> Hi @ElChapo how accurate are ECGs? I recently pulled a muscle in my chest and it cramped slightly while I was reading an article about hearts which made me panic and I nearly passed out - looking back I over reacted and brought on the symptoms by panicking. I went to hospital to make sure and they did an ECG, blood test and x Ray...X-ray and blood tests where fine but ecg showed something that the doctor said was quite common but not normal (he said it was not worth even mentioning as it's normal but not normal if that makes any sense)...anyway they want me to wear a 24 hr monitor....are ECGs accurate?


 Dont freak out too much if the doc is telling you not to worry. Sometimes stimulant use, or even anxiety (as you appear to be having) can cause changes in heart rhythym. Even athletes get changes in their heart beat pattern. I got some fibrillation while using yohimbine which went away after i finished cutting, so did the elavated BP (dose was high).


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> Because I have heard of faulse postives as well as mistakes in way the device is hooked up, also would a doctor expect a different outcome based on if someone had an athletic enlarged heart.


 24 hour monitor will confirm if its a mistake but you need to relax, dont freak out over things you have no control over.

A good MD can distuingish changes brought on by exercise versus pathological changes.


----------



## Lancashiregent

ElChapo said:


> Ferritin is actually a protein that helps carry iron around the body. High ferritin with normal iron could signal some diseases but not my area of expertise. Sometimes liver disease, inflammation or. hyperthyroid could elevate it. It could be benign, i wouldnt know.


 Thank you.

Ferritin was slightly under range, rather than over (not sure if this makes a difference)


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

Do u think u can keep growing ur arms (bis) if u only had 2 pairs of dumbbells and they were 35 lbs each? Say u had proper surplus diet, steroids and trained with recovery. If used the same weight for months, but always did more squeeze or reps to failure, would u keep growing or no?

I been thinking about doing lighter-moderate weight > heavy and doing more of a push-squeeze.


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo tried to do a blood let last night with a 18g needle, got to about 200ml and the blood flow just got slower and slower until it stopped completly. Im guessing the needle was getting blocked or something. Now my question is, would taking asprin help the blood flow for longer, and maybe help stop the needle blocking up or is there some other trick you might be aware of i could try? Dont really want to use a bigger needle if i can help it.

Thanks in advance for any help you maybe able to give


----------



## Jonk891

Co q 10 - 300mg daily

Pine bark - 125mg daily

Omega 3 - 2g daily

Vitamin d - 800iu daily

Vitamin c - 1g daily

Ginger - 1g daily

Hibiscus tea

Cialis - 5mg daily

@El Chapo

This stack any good heart and overall anti inflammatory benefits


----------



## capo

@ElChapo whilst on the subject of supplements what's your opinion on Berberine,read lots of positives on it for various benefits.


----------



## TommyGun9

ElChapo said:


> Clomid is better than nolva at boosting sperm count and fertility, nolva is more effective for gyno prevention.
> 
> Run the HMG for as long as you can, the longer the better. I knocked up my GF on high dose tren, and bostin loyd is having a child, so there is hope for everyone. ( he has a video on youtube with his protocol if you want to take a look)
> 
> Don't try to cum inside your partner every day, you want to time intercourse with her ovulation/fertile days. She needs to get an app to track her cycle so that you guys try to conceive on those optimal days. This is maximize the potency of your sperm. Daily ejaculation will not maximize your chances. "saving up" your sperm will actually work better.
> 
> Also make sure you don't have any varicoceles ( big veins in your balls/ especially the left side), and supplement zinc 30-50 mg.


 Also make sure you don't have any varicoceles ( big veins in your balls/ especially the left side), and supplement zinc 30-50 mg.

Just noticed I have what seems like this - you reckon Supplement with Zinc to help?


----------



## Jonk891

TommyGun9 said:


> Also make sure you don't have any varicoceles ( big veins in your balls/ especially the left side), and supplement zinc 30-50 mg.
> 
> Just noticed I have what seems like this - you reckon Supplement with Zinc to help?


 I have varicoceles on both sides and a epidydimyl cyst on the left past partners would never get pregnant I used hcg on my last cycle and my current partner got pregnant. I never even needed to run a pct after the cycle and my testicles maintained most of their size. I wouldn't do a cycle without it again


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Nandrolone/Deca is cool; versatile, effective and fairly mild androgen. Cheap and easy to find, not very androgenic but helps with strength, muscle and joints. Can be used by intermediate-advanced females through bikini-figure or added to HRT for men. Side effects can include libido, erection difficulties and gyno but most get on well with nandrolone and NPP clears fast.
> 
> I don't think much of EQ and primo honestly, test, tren, winstrol will do it all, but better. People put too much attention and time into researching exotic hormones which detracts from what matters the most ; training and diet. They think what their physique is missing is a new drug or that somehow it will break a plateau they are currently experiencing.
> 
> I have seen many guys running high dose test and tren for long periods and they look like they don't train due to lack of training and diet knowledge. Some guys get away with it due to good genetics and response to the drugs, other aren't so lucky.
> 
> A quick search finds something like this:
> 
> http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?65175-Coming-off-tren-after-2-years-blast-what-to-expect
> 
> A young guy blasting high dose tren and test for 2 years who looks like a natural lifter at best. ^


 Thanks mate!

Have to admit that we all are more concentrated on AAS... Hoping that they will do a miracle when instead it's training and diet that will do the difference mostly.

Regarding training ATM mine is going on point I am getting stronger with time. The progressive overload works fine.

Regarding the diet to bulk do you have a general approach?

How you put down the macros?

Do you eat more on wo days and less on non wo?

I think that everyone has an idea on how to do that.... But seeing what an experienced guy does can be a game changer.

Regarding the Test Tren W cycle after 12w lipids should be tanked... At this moment it will be good to cruise and cut fat?


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Ferritin was slightly under range, rather than over (not sure if this makes a difference)


 You should be fine


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo Hi mate just after a little advice for my father concerning Metformin diabetes type 2 and Glimiperide.

Hes 73 had a heart attack and is now type 2 he was on Metformin at first but he lost far too much weight.

He now takes 500mg Metformin twice a day and has been prescribed Glimiperide 1mg 3 per day.

He also takes Amitriptyline 25mg 1 per day for peripheral neuropathy-restless leg syndrome.

Also 1 asprin a day Bisoprolol 2.5mg 1 per day Ramipiril 2.5mg 1 a day for heart.

Prednisolone 5mg daily ( steroid dependant since 1973 for chest problems).

His doctor said his sugar will be around 8 - 10 because of the steroids but lately hes not been urinating hardly anything

and his last blood was 18.7. My mother looks after his meals and they are all very good and tapered to his needs.

He's not drinking any less fluids or ate anything different.

Do you have any recommendations on anything he could do doctors just say they want him to reduce his sugar but its spiked out of the blue ?

Im not sure if there is any help you could give but I thought id ask just incase thank you for reading.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do u think u can keep growing ur arms (bis) if u only had 2 pairs of dumbbells and they were 35 lbs each? Say u had proper surplus diet, steroids and trained with recovery. If used the same weight for months, but always did more squeeze or reps to failure, would u keep growing or no?
> 
> I been thinking about doing lighter-moderate weight > heavy and doing more of a push-squeeze.


 Eventually you would likely plateau, but you could probably build decent size depending on your genetics.

No reason to do only one of the other, mix up strength and volume training, either in your workouts or do one style for a couple of months then switch. This is the best way to get the most growth.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo tried to do a blood let last night with a 18g needle, got to about 200ml and the blood flow just got slower and slower until it stopped completly. Im guessing the needle was getting blocked or something. Now my question is, would taking asprin help the blood flow for longer, and maybe help stop the needle blocking up or is there some other trick you might be aware of i could try? Dont really want to use a bigger needle if i can help it.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help you maybe able to give


 You want to squeeze your fist repeatedly to help the blood flow, watch a phlebotomist do it when drawing blood at a donation center.

Aspirin would help, be very careful.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Co q 10 - 300mg daily
> 
> Pine bark - 125mg daily
> 
> Omega 3 - 2g daily
> 
> Vitamin d - 800iu daily
> 
> Vitamin c - 1g daily
> 
> Ginger - 1g daily
> 
> Hibiscus tea
> 
> Cialis - 5mg daily
> 
> @El Chapo
> 
> This stack any good heart and overall anti inflammatory benefits


 Good stack, cialis will work as low as 2.5 mg daily.

Vitamin D should be higher for most people, 1-5 k daily for maintenance, 10k for bringing up low levels.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo whilst on the subject of supplements what's your opinion on Berberine,read lots of positives on it for various benefits.


 Its been shown to be as effective as metformin in some studies.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Good stack, cialis will work as low as 2.5 mg daily.
> 
> Vitamin D should be higher for most people, 1-5 k daily for maintenance, 10k for bringing up low levels.


 My cialis are 5mg tabs be hard to split them they are the lilly ones. Not sure what my vit d levels are but I work indoors all year round


----------



## ElChapo

TommyGun9 said:


> Also make sure you don't have any varicoceles ( big veins in your balls/ especially the left side), and supplement zinc 30-50 mg.
> 
> Just noticed I have what seems like this - you reckon Supplement with Zinc to help?


 If the varicocele is severe enough, you would want to get it surgically corrected to maximize fertility. Zinc may help a little bit as it can help protect sperm from the oxidative damage from varicocele


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Thanks mate!
> 
> Have to admit that we all are more concentrated on AAS... Hoping that they will do a miracle when instead it's training and diet that will do the difference mostly.
> 
> Regarding training ATM mine is going on point I am getting stronger with time. The progressive overload works fine.
> 
> Regarding the diet to bulk do you have a general approach?
> 
> How you put down the macros?
> 
> Do you eat more on wo days and less on non wo?
> 
> I think that everyone has an idea on how to do that.... But seeing what an experienced guy does can be a game changer.
> 
> Regarding the Test Tren W cycle after 12w lipids should be tanked... At this moment it will be good to cruise and cut fat?


 If you are getting stronger and bigger, keep doing what you are doing.

Generally, i consume the minimum amount of protein needed and fill the rest with carbs. Minimal fat intake to help prevent spillover on a surplus.

If you look in the AMA i outline protein intake required on bulk/cut.

I would not cut on a cruise if you want to maximize muscle retention. Depends on what you are crusing on though.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo Hi mate just after a little advice for my father concerning Metformin diabetes type 2 and Glimiperide.
> 
> Hes 73 had a heart attack and is now type 2 he was on Metformin at first but he lost far too much weight.
> 
> He now takes 500mg Metformin twice a day and has been prescribed Glimiperide 1mg 3 per day.
> 
> He also takes Amitriptyline 25mg 1 per day for peripheral neuropathy-restless leg syndrome.
> 
> Also 1 asprin a day Bisoprolol 2.5mg 1 per day Ramipiril 2.5mg 1 a day for heart.
> 
> Prednisolone 5mg daily ( steroid dependant since 1973 for chest problems).
> 
> His doctor said his sugar will be around 8 - 10 because of the steroids but lately hes not been urinating hardly anything
> 
> and his last blood was 18.7. My mother looks after his meals and they are all very good and tapered to his needs.
> 
> He's not drinking any less fluids or ate anything different.
> 
> Do you have any recommendations on anything he could do doctors just say they want him to reduce his sugar but its spiked out of the blue ?
> 
> Im not sure if there is any help you could give but I thought id ask just incase thank you for reading.


 He needs start lifting weights and doing cardio regularly to prevent heart attack and help control his blood glucose.

Not sure what the values you are giving me are as the standard unit of measurement we use is MG/DL.

Corticosteroids like prednisone will cause hyperglycemia and make blood glucose more difficult to control.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> My cialis are 5mg tabs be hard to split them they are the lilly ones. Not sure what my vit d levels are but I work indoors all year round


 You likely need around 5 K iu vitamin D daily, make sure to consume with a meal that contains fat for optimal absorption.

5 mg daily is fine, you dont have to split


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Anything majorly wrong with these bloods?

Itss whilst running 125mg test e and 300mg tren e. This is 6 days after a jab, so the test is well, if not overdosed. My E2 is perfect right? (Take 12.5mg once a week with my hcg shot).

HDL is low (not not bottom floored) - this was before i incorporated all the suggested supplements (niacin, red yeast, fish oil etc etc) to bring it up. I was literally taking no supplements at the time of this blood.

What worries me, is the Thyroid numbers? I'm running 50mcg t3...tiromel Pharma. It's making me sweat and I get appetite (sweat more than when I've ran this dosage of tren without it).

Whys it so low? How quick does t3 levels go down after taking exogenous, this was about 16-18 hours after a 25mcg dose.

Appreciate the look over mate.

(Also, as these aren't terrible, I've dropped the tren and running 125mg test and 250mg deca as I need a break from tren...feel fine but know I should anyway as been on it 5 monthish...see anything wrong with that or do these bloods suggest I need a proper 125mg test only cruise for a few months?).


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> View attachment 147918
> 
> 
> View attachment 147920
> 
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> Anything majorly wrong with these bloods?
> 
> Itss whilst running 125mg test e and 300mg tren e. This is 6 days after a jab, so the test is well, if not overdosed. My E2 is perfect right? (Take 12.5mg once a week with my hcg shot).
> 
> HDL is low (not not bottom floored) - this was before i incorporated all the suggested supplements (niacin, red yeast, fish oil etc etc) to bring it up. I was literally taking no supplements at the time of this blood.
> 
> What worries me, is the Thyroid numbers? I'm running 50mcg t3...tiromel Pharma. It's making me sweat and I get appetite (sweat more than when I've ran this dosage of tren without it).
> 
> Whys it so low? How quick does t3 levels go down after taking exogenous, this was about 16-18 hours after a 25mcg dose.
> 
> Appreciate the look over mate.
> 
> (Also, as these aren't terrible, I've dropped the tren and running 125mg test and 250mg deca as I need a break from tren...feel fine but know I should anyway as been on it 5 monthish...see anything wrong with that or do these bloods suggest I need a proper 125mg test only cruise for a few months?).
> 
> View attachment 147919


 The lab you see is for Free T4, not T3.

This is expected as taking T3 only shut down your T4 production.

Thyroxine = T4

Triiodothyronine = T3

Real tiromel is legit

That testosterone is not overdosed, that level is normal for the amount you injected. E2 level looks solid but the level is only accurate if the assay used to read it is LC/MS. Legit tren will come up as E2 with the ECLIA assay. it looks about right though.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> The lab you see is for Free T4, not T3.
> 
> This is expected as taking T3 only shut down your T4 production.
> 
> Thyroxine = T4
> 
> Triiodothyronine = T3
> 
> Real tiromel is legit
> 
> That testosterone is not overdosed, that level is normal for the amount you injected. E2 level looks solid but the level is only accurate if the assay used to read it is LC/MS. Legit tren will come up as E2 with the ECLIA assay. it looks about right though.


 Perfect mate appreciated

feeling good, incorporated lot more stuff to help HDL, any reason not to run 125mg test 250mg deca for a few months, over a normal 125mg cruise?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Perfect mate appreciated
> 
> feeling good, incorporated lot more stuff to help HDL, any reason not to run 125mg test 250mg deca for a few months, over a normal 125mg cruise?


 You never know what effects you will get long term, i cruise 75/75 test tren sometimes for fun, but i know the risks.

You would obviously get better muscle and strength retention, but we dont know the long term negative sides. A 100/100 combo would be safer, but many run 300 mg cruises. The body is resilient, it will come down to genetics and lifestyle mostly.


----------



## Pancake'

Is their any real negative side effects from supplementing 10,000 ius of Vitamin D in comparison to 5000? I'm getting practically no sun, due to the sh1t weather atm.

I've been using 5000 for a while, and I'm considering bumping to 10,000 for at least 1 - 2 months.

Do pullovers really expand the ribcage? any real benefit towards performing alternate variations, like a decline pullover in comparison to the standard?

Are leg extensions really a bad exercise and detrimental to the knee joints overtime?

Any books you could recommend? sports science, endocrinology, psychology, combat related preferably.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> You never know what effects you will get long term, i cruise 75/75 test tren sometimes for fun, but i know the risks.
> 
> You would obviously get better muscle and strength retention, but we dont know the long term negative sides. A 100/100 combo would be safer, but many run 300 mg cruises. The body is resilient, it will come down to genetics and lifestyle mostly.


 Damn I have never ever cruised since 2y and my bloods are always fine....

Can be possible to run Test Tren W then Test Primo/EQ Proviron? Instead of cruising?

Primo shouldn't effect a lot our bloods....


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> You likely need around 5 K iu vitamin D daily, make sure to consume with a meal that contains fat for optimal absorption.
> 
> 5 mg daily is fine, you dont have to split


 Extra virgin olive oil fine or a handful of nuts ?


----------



## 64rl0

Hi @ElChapo

I've got a question for you regarding aromasin.

I've been taking on your advise and been taking aromasin E3D.

I'm on test E cycle @500mg PW

started aromasin on day 1 @ 12.5mcg E3D

blood test after 5 weeks and got:

Test 136 nmol/L

E2 171 pmol/L

as I remembered you said optimal E2 spot is between 70 and 110 I decided to up aromasin @ 18.75mcg E3D (3/4 of a pill instead of 1/2 of a pill)

again, blood test after 3 weeks and came back:

Test 143 nmol/L

E2 61 pmol/L

my point here is that now E2 @ 61 is a bit too low as I'd like it to be around 100.

it is very very difficult for me to cut the pill smaller than 1/4

what would you advise doing here?

change the frequency, perhaps E2D instead of E3D? or try to cut the pill smaller?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Damn I have never ever cruised since 2y and my bloods are always fine....
> 
> Can be possible to run Test Tren W then Test Primo/EQ Proviron? Instead of cruising?
> 
> Primo shouldn't effect a lot our bloods....


 Bloods don't show everything, you won't see any ischemic changes in the vasculature of the brain, artery hardening and calcification, liver scarring, etc.

You don't have to cruise or even PCT, but permablasting is something most guys will have to eventually pay for at some point. The threshold will depend on genetics, lifestyle and extent of abuse.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Is their any real negative side effects from supplementing 10,000 ius of Vitamin D in comparison to 5000? I'm getting practically no sun, due to the sh1t weather atm.
> 
> I've been using 5000 for a while, and I'm considering bumping to 10,000 for at least 1 - 2 months.
> 
> Do pullovers really expand the ribcage? any real benefit towards performing alternate variations, like a decline pullover in comparison to the standard?
> 
> Are leg extensions really a bad exercise and detrimental to the knee joints overtime?
> 
> Any books you could recommend? sports science, endocrinology, psychology, combat related preferably.


 Usually 10k iu will get you to optimal or top of the range (50 ng/mL-80 ng/mL). You don't want vitamin D too high either. 80 ng/mL is the highest i would go.

What are your levels right now on 5k? Just like with TRT, you can't dose blindly without seeing what you're working with. Make sure you are consuming with a meal that contains fat or absorption will be poor.

Highly doubt you will get any "expansion" however, it puts your shoulders and upper body through a nice range of motion and gives a real good stretch.

If you are resting and using good form, leg extensions will help strengthen the muscles/ligaments/tendons that support and stabilize the knees. Many injuries are brought on by chronic overuse and lack proper rest/recovery. Something as simple as jogging with improper form will tear up your joints eventually, even on a soft surface.

My favorite, sciencey text book is "Testosterone: Action, Deficiency, Substitution". Anything there is to know about testosterone/androgens is in there. For combat/martial arts, nothing beats youtube/drilling/sparring in my experience.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Extra virgin olive oil fine or a handful of nuts ?


 Those are fine, about 15 grams of fat will maximize absorption. It doesn't take much. Just don't take it fasted.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Is their any real negative side effects from supplementing 10,000 ius of Vitamin D in comparison to 5000? I'm getting practically no sun, due to the sh1t weather atm.
> 
> I've been using 5000 for a while, and I'm considering bumping to 10,000 for at least 1 - 2 months.
> 
> Do pullovers really expand the ribcage? any real benefit towards performing alternate variations, like a decline pullover in comparison to the standard?
> 
> Are leg extensions really a bad exercise and detrimental to the knee joints overtime?
> 
> Any books you could recommend? sports science, endocrinology, psychology, combat related preferably.





64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I've got a question for you regarding aromasin.
> 
> I've been taking on your advise and been taking aromasin E3D.
> 
> I'm on test E cycle @500mg PW
> 
> started aromasin on day 1 @ 12.5mcg E3D
> 
> blood test after 5 weeks and got:
> 
> Test 136 nmol/L
> 
> E2 171 pmol/L
> 
> as I remembered you said optimal E2 spot is between 70 and 110 I decided to up aromasin @ 18.75mcg E3D (3/4 of a pill instead of 1/2 of a pill)
> 
> again, blood test after 3 weeks and came back:
> 
> Test 143 nmol/L
> 
> E2 61 pmol/L
> 
> my point here is that now E2 @ 61 is a bit too low as I'd like it to be around 100.
> 
> it is very very difficult for me to cut the pill smaller than 1/4
> 
> what would you advise doing here?
> 
> change the frequency, perhaps E2D instead of E3D? or try to cut the pill smaller?


 171 pmol/L is perfectly fine and only slightly over the natural range for E2.

Generally, 66- 154 pmol/L is optimal for most men and is the natural average range for men. You can go all the way up to 256 pmol/L on blast as long as you are symptom free and feel good.

I would go back to your 12.5 mg x 2 per week, your levels were perfect there at 171 pmol/L for that testosterone level. (unless you were symptomatic for high e2)


----------



## capo

@ElChapo ,If you could only train on 3 consecutive days per week what do you think would be best ,

3 day split meaning training each body part once per week

2 day split A/B /A one week B/A/B the next week so training each body parts 3 times in 2 weeks ,would I be recovered enough to do the next A workout on the third day or would it be to soon and be unproductive.


----------



## Pancake'

What causes bodybuilders to develop that sh1tty deformed gap of centre of their chest? not a bodybuilder, but Hulk Hogan has this.


----------



## ElChapo

gt4_ade said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Had bloods done last week at end of 12 week test e dhb blast. Hdl came in at .75 ldl at 2.19. I do 20mins cv ed and consume plenty of good fats. What else would you recommend to raise hdl?


 fish oil, red wine, red yeast rice. There is only so much you can do to fight androgen's effects on cholesterol.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo what to see some funny E2 blood work?
> 
> 600 TestE 400 TrenE 140 W 3.5 Adex ew
> 
> fu**ing Tren.... it ruined my reading on E2
> 
> View attachment 147896


 Yeah, that's an ECLIA assay, you need LC/MS to accurately read E2 on trenbolone.

Deca will also pop as testosterone on ECLIA


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> fish oil, red wine, red yeast rice. There is only so much you can do to fight androgen's effects on cholesterol.


 As its christmas time do you know if ruby port is good for cholesterol too?


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm at week 19 of my 32 week cycle. Just pinned the tren for the first time a couple of days ago.
> 
> Cycle:
> 
> 1-19 test e 600mg
> 
> 4-19 deca 600mg
> 
> 19-32 test e 250mg
> 
> 19-32 tren e 400mg
> 
> I've used orals on/off throughout the cycle, currently around 5 days away from finishing a run of 100mg anadrol.
> 
> How can I protect my body the best for this cycle? I take vitamin d 5000iu throughout the cycle, also a few days ago I started taking bulk powders super omega 3 (330mg EPA, 220mg DPA) 2x a day. I am also thinking of starting to take NAC every day.


 Make sure your BP or E2 isn't extremely high, do some light cardio a couple of times a week. Donate some blood/make sure HCT isn't extremely high. Keep it under 52%


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> Make sure your BP or E2 isn't extremely high, do some light cardio a couple of times a week. Donate some blood/make sure HCT isn't extremely high. Keep it under 52%


 BP is 132/64 is that ok mate?

Also do you have any tips on how to consume NAC, i bought the powder and ive almost thrown up trying to drink it mixed in water, it tastes so sour and nasty


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo ,If you could only train on 3 consecutive days per week what do you think would be best ,
> 
> 3 day split meaning training each body part once per week
> 
> 2 day split A/B /A one week B/A/B the next week so training each body parts 3  times in 2 weeks ,would I be recovered enough to do the next A workout on the third day or would it be to soon and be unproductive.


 Doesn't matter, just hit a body part x 1-2 per week, make sure you progressively increase the intensity ( weight or reps) and you eat enough of a surplus to grow muscle. Don't overcomplicate things.

Recovery depends on the intensity of the exercise. Heavy squats and deadlifts will take 7-9 days to fully recovery from at maximum intensity in the advanced-elite levels. AAS+GH/SLIN may increase recovery, but the CNS still takes a beating. Smaller muscle groups with less intensive exercises , IE bicep curls/crunches/etc you can do with a much higher frequency.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> BP is 132/64 is that ok mate?
> 
> Also do you have any tips on how to consume NAC, i bought the powder and ive almost thrown up trying to drink it mixed in water, it tastes so sour and nasty


 That's fine. I would keep it under 160/90 on blast, and under 140/85 for long blasts/cruise/baseline. High blood pressure eventually destroyed your circulatory system which will damage kidneys, penis, brain, vision, heart, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> BP is 132/64 is that ok mate?
> 
> Also do you have any tips on how to consume NAC, i bought the powder and ive almost thrown up trying to drink it mixed in water, it tastes so sour and nasty


 Yeah, NAC smells like fart/sulphur. Something i would take capped.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> What causes bodybuilders to develop that sh1tty deformed gap of centre of their chest? not a bodybuilder, but Hulk Hogan has this.


 Genetics/muscle insertions.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, NAC smells like fart/sulphur. Something i would take capped.


 I just throw it in my mouth and wash it down. Tastes and smells like ass


----------



## Big Ian

Jonk891 said:


> I just throw it in my mouth and wash it down. Tastes and smells like ass


 Yep me too, bodybuilding and keeping healthy (of sorts) is not supposed to be easy B)


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

I'm starting to think that u might be 101% right on the e2 topic I asked u about a while ago. I didn't think I had low e2 judging it based on the wood being great all the time, but maybe it doesn't matter when I'm taking 15mg cialis every day alongside 1000mg+ of test e.......

So I found this:

Low estrogen sides:
------------------------
Dry skin, dry lips, dehydration, loss of libido, good morning wood no wood when its time for sex,
loss of wood while having sex, loss of sensitivity, dry gland (penis), white gland,
loss of girth, irritability, mood swings, crying for no reason, dht rage (aggression you take out on others),
dull orgasm, hesitation just before urinating, night sweats, loss of appetite, constant fatigue,
lethargy, constipation (due to dehydration), diuretic effect (pissing more water than you are consuming),
itchy scalp, obsessive thoughts, Joints,

I've been waking up every other hour during sleep with SUPER SUPER dry throat, lips and nose. I mean it's so dry that my nose bleeds pretty much every day now and no chap stick or lotion has been helping. I thought it was because of winter-dry weather and accutane that I'm also taking (but I'm always on accutane, so that side doesn't really hit me much anymore and I don't recall having this dry issue before the cycle even when I was still on accutane then, only after I started it about 1-2 weeks in.) I have been having major trouble sleeping for straight hours, As for the emotional thing...Sounds stupid, but I've watched a few movies the past 2 weeks and in SAD scenes I literally get worked up in a almost crying manor for no reason (don't laugh, literally can't help it, embarrassing) , I have been getting night sweats...Not sure from low e2 or tren high dosage, My appt is dead for sure even on 1g EQ, I'm ALWAYS tired, I literally can stay in bed for 20 hours in a day and not want to do anything not even joking, my last rest day I slept ALL DAY. Besides all of that, the WORST thing is the joints, tendons or bones... My lifts have been going DOWN every single time I go to the gym even though I'm on the highest gear dosage I've ever been on and loaded up with calories. I pop 135 onto the flat and my shoulders feel like they are brittle glass and I'm used to doing nearly 315 without much issues....My back has been killing me, wrists and forearms too. Elbows... Stopped doing skull crushers for a while.. ect....

It must be low e2. My routine is: Sun- 2ml test e 300mg, Mon-1.8mg adex, TH-2ml Test e 300mg, Friday 1.8mg adex...... I'm on week 5.

So if My thinking is I started out with 600mg Test E Pre-loaded on week 1, Then if I did 2ml e3d of test e 300, that then puts me at 1200mg test E at week 3 instead of week 6. I must have got it confused for some reason. I've noticed that after weeks 2-3 (Now week 5, the ending of it) that as I keep raising my adex dosage by .2mg every week that my str and joints hurt EVEN MORE and my lifts go down more and more, so 1.6mg e3d and 1.8mg e3d DOES NOT work for my 1200mg test e.

How do u think I should fix this to raise the e2 and see if it's the true solution? Drop the adex, lower the dosage to what on the coming monday..?


----------



## Jordan08

Is there really an issue with vitamin e consumption at 400iu daily in long term?


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm starting to think that u might be 101% right on the e2 topic I asked u about a while ago. I didn't think I had low e2 judging it based on the wood being great all the time, but maybe it doesn't matter when I'm taking 15mg cialis every day alongside 1000mg+ of test e.......
> 
> So I found this:
> 
> Low estrogen sides:
> ------------------------
> Dry skin, dry lips, dehydration, loss of libido, good morning wood no wood when its time for sex,
> loss of wood while having sex, loss of sensitivity, dry gland (penis), white gland,
> loss of girth, irritability, mood swings, crying for no reason, dht rage (aggression you take out on others),
> dull orgasm, hesitation just before urinating, night sweats, loss of appetite, constant fatigue,
> lethargy, constipation (due to dehydration), diuretic effect (pissing more water than you are consuming),
> itchy scalp, obsessive thoughts, Joints,
> 
> I've been waking up every other hour during sleep with SUPER SUPER dry throat, lips and nose. I mean it's so dry that my nose bleeds pretty much every day now and no chap stick or lotion has been helping. I thought it was because of winter-dry weather and accutane that I'm also taking (but I'm always on accutane, so that side doesn't really hit me much anymore and I don't recall having this dry issue before the cycle even when I was still on accutane then, only after I started it about 1-2 weeks in.) I have been having major trouble sleeping for straight hours, As for the emotional thing...Sounds stupid, but I've watched a few movies the past 2 weeks and in SAD scenes I literally get worked up in a almost crying manor for no reason (don't laugh, literally can't help it, embarrassing) , I have been getting night sweats...Not sure from low e2 or tren high dosage, My appt is dead for sure even on 1g EQ, I'm ALWAYS tired, I literally can stay in bed for 20 hours in a day and not want to do anything not even joking, my last rest day I slept ALL DAY. Besides all of that, the WORST thing is the joints, tendons or bones... My lifts have been going DOWN every single time I go to the gym even though I'm on the highest gear dosage I've ever been on and loaded up with calories. I pop 135 onto the flat and my shoulders feel like they are brittle glass and I'm used to doing nearly 315 without much issues....My back has been killing me, wrists and forearms too. Elbows... Stopped doing skull crushers for a while.. ect....
> 
> It must be low e2. My routine is: Sun- 2ml test e 300mg, Mon-1.8mg adex, TH-2ml Test e 300mg, Friday 1.8mg adex...... I'm on week 5.
> 
> So if My thinking is I started out with 600mg Test E Pre-loaded on week 1, Then if I did 2ml e3d of test e 300, that then puts me at 1200mg test E at week 3 instead of week 6. I must have got it confused for some reason. I've noticed that after weeks 2-3 (Now week 5, the ending of it) that as I keep raising my adex dosage by .2mg every week that my str and joints hurt EVEN MORE and my lifts go down more and more, so 1.6mg e3d and 1.8mg e3d DOES NOT work for my 1200mg test e.
> 
> How do u think I should fix this to raise the e2 and see if it's the true solution? Drop the adex, lower the dosage to what on the coming monday..?


 Trenbolone will cause emotionality AND apathy, you need to do blood work to figure out your E2. It's one of the biggest pain in the asses of using testosterone, but once you figure it out, you're good.

No one can really tell you if it's low E2 just from symptoms or dosages. Some guys can run 300 mg of test E with zero AI, other guys will aromatize like crazy. My E2 on only 150 mg of test E is twice over the range. Other guys can take 500 mg of test with no AI. You need hard data. You're gonna keep spinning in circles without it.

Your fatigue and emotional symptoms could be E2 related but can also be cause by trenbolone. The strength loss and joint pains sounds like crashed E2, but we just don't know.

If you don't want to do blood work, lower the AI and see what happens. Gyno is reversible with raloxifene, so don't worry about that so much.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Is there really an issue with vitamin e consumption at 400iu daily in long term?


 You need to be careful with fat soluble vitamins consumed over the daily allowance as they build up in the body. There is an optimal dose for everything and more isn't always better.

Some research shows increased risk of death and stroke from high vitamin E consumption over a long period of time.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo I've been on raloxifene 60mg for gyno reversal for 3 months and its 90% gone but still a little bit of lump left behind and some fatty tissue that I don't expect will go until I cut, as I'm at around 18-20% bf anyway. do I still need to run it at 60mg or can i cut them in half and do 30mg? will 30mg still prevent new gyno from gear use and help continuing to reverse old gyno?


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo I've been on raloxifene 60mg for gyno reversal for 3 months and its 90% gone but still a little bit of lump left behind and some fatty tissue that I don't expect will go until I cut, as I'm at around 18-20% bf anyway. do I still need to run it at 60mg or can i cut them in half and do 30mg? will 30mg still prevent new gyno from gear use?


 30 mg should prevent growth, was the gyno from trenbolone or high E2? The fatty tissue might just be from the high body fat like you suspect and should be gone by the time you get to 12%.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> 30 mg should prevent growth, was the gyno from trenbolone or high E2? The fatty tissue might just be from the high body fat like you suspect and should be gone by the time you get to 12%.


 The gyno was from being a greedy obese c**t during puberty so probably high E2. I am on tren right now though.

What's your opinion on tren leaning out / reducing bf while eating at a surplus to gain mass?


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

A guy on GH15.org did lots of bloods to try to keep E2 under 50pg/ml on 500 TestE.... i can link you the complete thread... With a lot of people he verified that outrageous dosages of AIs are needed to keep E2 in range.... Letrozole was the best AI.

So how is that possible for us to run 1g TestE without issues? We are supposed to use Letrozole?

Usually I always run low Test cycles (300 TestE)...


----------



## JUICE1

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> A guy on GH15.org did lots of bloods to try to keep E2 under 50pg/ml on 500 TestE.... i can link you the complete thread... With a lot of people he verified that outrageous dosages of AIs are needed to keep E2 in range.... Letrozole was the best AI.
> 
> So how is that possible for us to run 1g TestE without issues? We are supposed to use Letrozole?
> 
> Usually I always run low Test cycles (300 TestE)...


 That was just one person though, everyone has different requirements for E2. I personally need a ridiculously high amount of AI which is why I avoid high test, others can control E2 on 1g/wk Test E without using high amounts of AI it's just genetic.


----------



## Lancashiregent

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> A guy on GH15.org did lots of bloods to try to keep E2 under 50pg/ml on 500 TestE.... i can link you the complete thread... With a lot of people he verified that outrageous dosages of AIs are needed to keep E2 in range.... Letrozole was the best AI.
> 
> So how is that possible for us to run 1g TestE without issues? We are supposed to use Letrozole?
> 
> Usually I always run low Test cycles (300 TestE)...


 Off topic - but just wanted to thank you for mentioning GH15 forum. Loads of quality info on there and first time I have across it. ( Reminds me of the Datbtrue forum from years gone by)


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> You need to be careful with fat soluble vitamins consumed over the daily allowance as they build up in the body. There is an optimal dose for everything and more isn't always better.
> 
> Some research shows increased risk of death and stroke from high vitamin E consumption over a long period of time.


 Would this apply for vitamin d


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

drwae said:


> @ElChapo I've been on raloxifene 60mg for gyno reversal for 3 months and its 90% gone but still a little bit of lump left behind and some fatty tissue that I don't expect will go until I cut, as I'm at around 18-20% bf anyway. do I still need to run it at 60mg or can i cut them in half and do 30mg? will 30mg still prevent new gyno from gear use and help continuing to reverse old gyno?


 Dude any chance you could send me a pm where you got the raloxifene please not sure where I got mine is legit


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo this using raloxifene for reversing gyno? Is that effective for reversing pubertal gyno that was made worse by letting it get worse when cycling years ago?

they are hard fibrous lumps that you can feel underneath the skin, worst behind my nipple but go further back in a smaller way towards my armpit (like little balls on a string).

ive used nolva up to 80mg/day in the past for a a couple of months with limited success in the past, is raloxifine likely to be better and if so, why? Thanks


----------



## nWo

ElChapo said:


> If you are resting and using good form, leg extensions will help strengthen the muscles/ligaments/tendons that support and stabilize the knees. Many injuries are brought on by chronic overuse and lack proper rest/recovery. Something as simple as jogging with improper form will tear up your joints eventually, even on a soft surface.


 Totally agree with this. Leg extensions have gotten such a bad rep recently which I think is really unfair. If you have ACL problems already then you might need to be careful, but generally if you align your knee with the pivot point on the machine (by adjusting the seat) then you should be absolutely fine. I couldn't squat heavy for a few years because of knee problems, I relied heavily on leg extensions at one point and it actually strengthened my knee joints dramatically and I can squat heavy without problems now.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> The gyno was from being a greedy obese c**t during puberty so probably high E2. I am on tren right now though.
> 
> What's your opinion on tren leaning out / reducing bf while eating at a surplus to gain mass?


 I think it has a repartioning effect in people and does help you stay leaner in a surplus. Same as with cows in the actual studies. I wouldn't count on getting leaner, but you might gain minimal fat or recomp. Some people confuse the drying effect of androgens as leaning out. It can easily make it seem like you lost 2% bodyfat but that's just the hardening effect of the hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> A guy on GH15.org did lots of bloods to try to keep E2 under 50pg/ml on 500 TestE.... i can link you the complete thread... With a lot of people he verified that outrageous dosages of AIs are needed to keep E2 in range.... Letrozole was the best AI.
> 
> So how is that possible for us to run 1g TestE without issues? We are supposed to use Letrozole?
> 
> Usually I always run low Test cycles (300 TestE)...


 Too many variables, how does the guy know his AI was legit. Was it real pharma grade? Also, everyone aromatizes at a different rate. Not everyone needs a lot of AI, others needs a ton. You don't need letrozole but it is the most efficient AI and it inhibits the other two estrogen isomers (E1, E3) more effectively than adex or aromasin. There is also some research showing it crosses the blood-brain barrier more effectively, which explains why it hits libido so hard.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Would this apply for vitamin d


 Yep, and vitamin D as well. K is harder to overdose even though it's a fat soluble vitamin.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo this using raloxifene for reversing gyno? Is that effective for reversing pubertal gyno that was made worse by letting it get worse when cycling years ago?
> 
> they are hard fibrous lumps that you can feel underneath the skin, worst behind my nipple but go further back in a smaller way towards my armpit (like little balls on a string).
> 
> ive used nolva up to 80mg/day in the past for a a couple of months with limited success in the past, is raloxifine likely to be better and if so, why? Thanks


 It works on pubertal gyno, it works on gyno 90% of time but there is no guarantee. Everyone i know including myself has completely reversed gyno. At worst, it will shrink so much you can't see it unless it's severe and huge.

Run ralox at 60-120 mg daily for at least 8 weeks. I guarantee it will be gone or improve by 70% or more if your ralox is legit. Ralox is also very mild in terms of sides, it can improve lipids and bone density. Nolva can cause brain fog, depression, libido and erections issues in some people.


----------



## ElChapo

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Totally agree with this. Leg extensions have gotten such a bad rep recently which I think is really unfair. If you have ACL problems already then you might need to be careful, but generally if you align your knee with the pivot point on the machine (by adjusting the seat) then you should be absolutely fine. I couldn't squat heavy for a few years because of knee problems, I relied heavily on leg extensions at one point and it actually strengthened my knee joints dramatically and I can squat heavy without problems now.


 It's a great exercise for sure.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> It works on pubertal gyno, it works on gyno 90% of time but there is no guarantee. Everyone i know including myself has completely reversed gyno. At worst, it will shrink so much you can't see it unless it's severe and huge.
> 
> Run ralox at 60-120 mg daily for at least 8 weeks. I guarantee it will be gone or improve by 70% or more if your ralox is legit. Ralox is also very mild in terms of sides, it can improve lipids and bone density. Nolva can cause brain fog, depression, libido and erections issues in some people.


 Sweet, thanks bud, will give that a shot.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Sweet, thanks bud, will give that a shot.


 We've already had some guys reverse it on this thread after seeing it here. I'm trying to get this "letrozole reverses gyno" horseshit off the internet once and for all.


----------



## mmichael

ElChapo said:


> Trenbolone will cause emotionality AND apathy, you need to do blood work to figure out your E2. It's one of the biggest pain in the asses of using testosterone, but once you figure it out, you're good.
> 
> No one can really tell you if it's low E2 just from symptoms or dosages. Some guys can run 300 mg of test E with zero AI, other guys will aromatize like crazy. My E2 on only 150 mg of test E is twice over the range. Other guys can take 500 mg of test with no AI. You need hard data. You're gonna keep spinning in circles without it.
> 
> Your fatigue and emotional symptoms could be E2 related but can also be cause by trenbolone. The strength loss and joint pains sounds like crashed E2, but we just don't know.
> 
> If you don't want to do blood work, lower the AI and see what happens. Gyno is reversible with raloxifene, so don't worry about that so much.


 I know u posted a link on cheap blood work and I KNOW that it's needed, but I really am having issues lately with money like I said before. It takes me a while to save up for a cycle, then family costs, my diet and lots of other stuff is putting me off spending on blood work, so yes unfortunately I am trying to guess around. I just listed that lot cause thats what I was experiencing, I can deal with the tiredness and emotions temp, especially after being on high dose DNP with no ephedra lol...that was most brutal thing I ever did, It's just the joint pain/tendons and weakness in the gym that is making me super P.O, Using loads of steroids and tons of food and training proper with recovery and I get weaker each week.. Blows my mind. And being a idiot I kept increasing the AI by .2mg each week and each week was worse than the last, so I really am banking on it being low e2. I do have a bottle of ralox, but it's from a source that use to be "good" but went down hill and I can't recall if I bought it during the good or bad times...and I don't know how to dose it proper.

So do u think I should drop the AI 100% this coming monday? (just did my shots a few hours ago), I wouldn't take any AI until friday and I'm thinking of doing 1mg e3d for 1200mg test OR should I just take 1mg on Monday and roll with that for a few and change it as needed?

How long does it take e2 to rebound and raise after being low/crashed on high test? I know it's person to person like u said, but on average.. days or weeks?

How would u dose ralox? Run it if I get itchy nips Or only if I get gyno? I've never really had a gyno issue before, but I have had itchy nips, but if I pop in the AI then it go away fast... EDIT: I see u posted 60-120mg for gyno already.. Still same protocol or no if itchy nips only?


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> I know u posted a link on cheap blood work and I KNOW that it's needed, but I really am having issues lately with money like I said before. It takes me a while to save up for a cycle, then family costs, my diet and lots of other stuff is putting me off spending on blood work, so yes unfortunately I am trying to guess around. I just listed that lot cause thats what I was experiencing, I can deal with the tiredness and emotions temp, especially after being on high dose DNP with no ephedra lol...that was most brutal thing I ever did, It's just the joint pain/tendons and weakness in the gym that is making me super P.O, Using loads of steroids and tons of food and training proper with recovery and I get weaker each week.. Blows my mind. And being a idiot I kept increasing the AI by .2mg each week and each week was worse than the last, so I really am banking on it being low e2. I do have a bottle of ralox, but it's from a source that use to be "good" but went down hill and I can't recall if I bought it during the good or bad times...and I don't know how to dose it proper.
> 
> So do u think I should drop the AI 100% this coming monday? (just did my shots a few hours ago), I wouldn't take any AI until friday and I'm thinking of doing 1mg e3d for 1200mg test OR should I just take 1mg on Monday and roll with that for a few and change it as needed?
> 
> How long does it take e2 to rebound and raise after being low/crashed on high test? I know it's person to person like u said, but on average.. days or weeks?
> 
> How would u dose ralox? Run it if I get itchy nips Or only if I get gyno? I've never really had a gyno issue before, but I have had itchy nips, but if I pop in the AI then it go away fast... EDIT: I see u posted 60-120mg for gyno already.. Still same protocol or no if itchy nips only?


 Is the ralox pharma or UGL? Give it a few weeks for E2 to come back.

Ralox can be used to reverse gyno or prevent it on cycle. 60-120 mg.


----------



## ghost.recon

Looks like I didn't miss much


----------



## mmichael

ElChapo said:


> Is the ralox pharma or UGL? Give it a few weeks for E2 to come back.
> 
> Ralox can be used to reverse gyno or prevent it on cycle. 60-120 mg.


 The Ralox is a liquid research chem. They use to have good cia and adex, I used them for a while, then they just began to release total bunk. I think it's ok though cause I bought it a while ago before if I can slightly recall.

I thought about it more during the night and did some more research. I'm going to try a protcol of: M-W-F or EOD for adex instead of E3D. I'm going to take .5mg EOD in other words it would be .75mg adex E3D basically and let me e2 build up slowly. If I start to get itchy nips I'll switch my EOD into .6mg AKA .9mg E3D for a few and if that doesnt work then .7mg EOD AKA 1.05mg E3D...... ect... I think the limit would be .8 EOD cause I feel over 1.2mg e3d is when the issues starting happening the most. So I'll build it up... (yes it's a liquid adex, it's pretty good too)

Do u think adex is better off ran EOD than E3D due to the compound and time release?

Just incase to double check with u, run the ralox as soon as I get itchy nips, adjust my adex dosage during the next M-W-F and then come off the ralox? I would like to be on least amount of aux if possible. Would u do something like that in this case and only take it when itchy nips happen? I heard gyno even so takes a few weeks to form, so itchy nips can just be handled by adjusting adex during the next time u take it..?


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Are cholesterol improving yoghurt drinks etc (benecol and that) a waste of money and calories?

Will they actually provide a noticeable benefit?

Works out like £2 a day and 200 calories to drink 3 a day...I could fit another protein bar in for satiety instead of those cals.

But if they really do help I don't mind. Cheers


----------



## Pancake'

Test only 1st cycle, 12 weeks vs 16 weeks vs 20 weeks duration?


----------



## Jonk891

Starz said:


> Test only 1st cycle, 12 weeks vs 16 weeks vs 20 weeks duration?


 What dose do you have planned


----------



## Pancake'

Jonk891 said:


> What dose do you have planned


 Between 300 - 500mg, was thinking to start @ 300mg and maybe taper to 500mg

I'm not entirely sure, but, I want to use as little possible to gain and test waters, so to speak.

I don't see the point in just using 500mg, when I'm not carrying a great deal of muscle sub 85kg and I typically only require lower amounts of any drug for it to be affective.

That being said, if extended more than 10 - 12, probably not a point in just being shutdown to use 300mg


----------



## superdrol

Starz said:


> Between 300 - 500mg, was thinking to start @ 300mg and maybe taper to 500mg
> 
> I'm not entirely sure, but, I want to use as little possible to gain and test waters, so to speak.
> 
> I don't see the point in just using 500mg, when I'm not carrying a great deal of muscle sub 85kg and I typically only require lower amounts of any drug for it to be affective.
> 
> That being said, if extended more than 10 - 12, probably not a point in just being shutdown to use 300mg


 No point tapering, takes longer and is harder to sort ai dosage to suit, I'd use 500 and sort ai dose so that you know for future cycles, plus first cycle gains are always the best, use that to your advantage


----------



## UK2USA

@El Chapo Had Blood Drawn Today To Check E2 and happened to look at an old one from earlier in the year, obviously done in the US, the level was:

62.9 pg/ml would that be:

230.92 pmol/L in UK standard measurement?

Hoping the Adex is better balanced this time around.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> The Ralox is a liquid research chem. They use to have good cia and adex, I used them for a while, then they just began to release total bunk. I think it's ok though cause I bought it a while ago before if I can slightly recall.
> 
> I thought about it more during the night and did some more research. I'm going to try a protcol of: M-W-F or EOD for adex instead of E3D. I'm going to take .5mg EOD in other words it would be .75mg adex E3D basically and let me e2 build up slowly. If I start to get itchy nips I'll switch my EOD into .6mg AKA .9mg E3D for a few and if that doesnt work then .7mg EOD AKA 1.05mg E3D...... ect... I think the limit would be .8 EOD cause I feel over 1.2mg e3d is when the issues starting happening the most. So I'll build it up... (yes it's a liquid adex, it's pretty good too)
> 
> Do u think adex is better off ran EOD than E3D due to the compound and time release?
> 
> Just incase to double check with u, run the ralox as soon as I get itchy nips, adjust my adex dosage during the next M-W-F and then come off the ralox? I would like to be on least amount of aux if possible. Would u do something like that in this case and only take it when itchy nips happen? I heard gyno even so takes a few weeks to form, so itchy nips can just be handled by adjusting adex during the next time u take it..?


 E3D is enough for it's half-life, you can even dose once per week.

If you get itchy nips, AI should stop it from progressing to gyno. Only use ralox if you know for sure you might get gyno, like on tren etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Are cholesterol improving yoghurt drinks etc (benecol and that) a waste of money and calories?
> 
> Will they actually provide a noticeable benefit?
> 
> Works out like £2 a day and 200 calories to drink 3 a day...I could fit another protein bar in for satiety instead of those cals.
> 
> But if they really do help I don't mind. Cheers


 better off using other supps, cardio, etc. You can take the plant sterols as a standalone supplement too.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Test only 1st cycle, 12 weeks vs 16 weeks vs 20 weeks duration?


 Longer duration means more momentum, however, if you want to PCT, the risk of shutdown is higher the longer you run it. You want to run HCG if you want to maximize recovery of your natural production and/or fertility. It depends on what your goals are too.


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> @El Chapo Had Blood Drawn Today To Check E2 and happened to look at an old one from earlier in the year, obviously done in the US, the level was:
> 
> 62.9 pg/ml would that be:
> 
> 230.92 pmol/L in UK standard measurement?
> 
> Hoping the Adex is better balanced this time around.


 62 pg/mL isn't too bad, if you are asymptomatic and feel good. If you have high e2 symptoms though, lowering that number should get rid of them. I wouldn't treat that level of E2 if you feel good though. E2 mediates a lot of the positive and negative effects of testosterone, including libido. It can also have a positive effect on blood lipids, AI use tends to lower HDL.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> better off using other supps, cardio, etc. You can take the plant sterols as a standalone supplement too.


 Thank you mate, appreciated.

I imagine people haves asked by I've scanned through and cannot find anything.

Views on intermittent fasting? And fasted cardio? (I can't take yohimbine unfortuantely due to being on amitriptyline, so is there any other point?)


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> 62 pg/mL isn't too bad, if you are asymptomatic and feel good. If you have high e2 symptoms though, lowering that number should get rid of them. I wouldn't treat that level of E2 if you feel good though. E2 mediates a lot of the positive and negative effects of testosterone, including libido. It can also have a positive effect on blood lipids, AI use tends to lower HDL.


 Thank you. I repeated it today because I think it may be lower, I have some low E2 symptoms, so want to see if that's what it is. I'm running 400mgs Test Cyp and 300mga of Deca, wit 20mgs of D'bol as a pre-workout eod (I only use it on workout days, which are every other day) I have been on .5 of adex m- w-f. I will repost if anything regarding the new test results. Again, thanks.


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo

masteron -any ai properties or bro science? And what do you think it's method of action is that either makes people think it has ai properties or that it actually has? Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thank you mate, appreciated.
> 
> I imagine people haves asked by I've scanned through and cannot find anything.
> 
> Views on intermittent fasting? And fasted cardio? (I can't take yohimbine unfortuantely due to being on amitriptyline, so is there any other point?)


 Great for cutting and maintaining low body fat. For bulking, it makes it harder to get my calories in for the day as the meals are much bigger than normal, breakfast makes it easy to get a nice shot of calories/protein early.

Fasted cardio seems to work best when already lean and might have some slight benefit at mobilizing fat stores better due to increase catecholamines from exercising in a fasted state ( remember the alpha receptors in the fat cells, more adrenaline means more fat being released and burned off). Some research shows the benefit is negligible, end of the day, the energy deficit or surplus is the most important thing.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> masteron -any ai properties or bro science? And what do you think it's method of action is that either makes people think it has ai properties or that it actually has? Thanks


 It does NOT lower E2, but it seems to help offset some E2 sides. I have seen it personally and in other friends running masteron, we can probably thank the fact that it's so similar to DHT. Running it high tends to cause some prostate issues that discontinue with use. Over 600 mg usually or 150-300 mg for long periods. It's a subtle compound.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Between 300 - 500mg, was thinking to start @ 300mg and maybe taper to 500mg
> 
> I'm not entirely sure, but, I want to use as little possible to gain and test waters, so to speak.
> 
> I don't see the point in just using 500mg, when I'm not carrying a great deal of muscle sub 85kg and I typically only require lower amounts of any drug for it to be affective.
> 
> That being said, if extended more than 10 - 12, probably not a point in just being shutdown to use 300mg


 Tell us your goals (strength/physique/etc) it will help us guide you a bit better. Do you plan on PCT or cruising/HRT, are your goals physique oriented? What kind of physique? Strength?

Every cycle and protocol will be different depending on goals, genetics, experience levels, sensitivity to side effects.

Some people are extremely sensitive to aromatization and have a hard time running high testosterone, they will tend to keep it at 150-300 mg and run other anabolics. Others can't handle trenbolone sides such as insomnia and emotional instability/anxiety, stubborn gyno or severe ED. So they will keep it very low or omit it completely.

As you learn from your experiences, you will start to see what works and doesn't work for you, but you can take some advice and knowledge from the guys that have already been there and make the road a bit smoother for yourself.


----------



## mmichael

ElChapo said:


> E3D is enough for it's half-life, you can even dose once per week.
> 
> If you get itchy nips, AI should stop it from progressing to gyno. Only use ralox if you know for sure you might get gyno, like on tren etc.


 Ok, most likely i won't need ralox then. AI usually always fixes the nips for me.

I'm going to lay off the adex for a few instead. I keep over thinking it, but the 1.8 I took like 3 days ago must have hit me hard, so I'll push the e2 raise for a while and see what happens. This joint issue has to go away.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> It does NOT lower E2, but it seems to help offset some E2 sides. I have seen it personally and in other friends running masteron, we can probably thank the fact that it's so similar to DHT. Running it high tends to cause some prostate issues that discontinue with use. Over 600 mg usually or 150-300 mg for long periods. It's a subtle compound.


 Thanks @ElChapo

now dnp, a lot of people suggest it's not near as effective when already lean? What are your thoughts?


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what are your thoughts on metformin

i was thinking of running it during cruises as i always run insulin and some combo of peptides or GH a few times per year

ive read arguments both for and against metformin and its effect on muscle protein synthesis and androgen receptor density

is most of this out the window on those that are enhanced ?


----------



## Vinny

Big Ian said:


> Thanks @ElChapo
> 
> now dnp, a lot of people suggest it's not near as effective when already lean? What are your thoughts?


 I've heard the same.

I believe it's been known to be effective from 30% down to 12-10%, but to get sub 10% Clen is a better choice. (Although I've never been sub 16% while training)


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> You want to squeeze your fist repeatedly to help the blood flow, watch a phlebotomist do it when drawing blood at a donation center.
> 
> Aspirin would help, be very careful.


 Ye after id written about the asprin i thought nah fùck that, thats just stupid lol. Ye tried the fist pumping but nothing.









From the pic (black lines are roughly where i inserted needle) would it be better to have the tourniquet above or below the elbow?


----------



## Jonk891

bornagod said:


> Ye after id written about the asprin i thought nah fùck that, thats just stupid lol. Ye tried the fist pumping but nothing.
> 
> View attachment 147974
> 
> 
> From the pic (black lines are roughly where i inserted needle) would it be better to have the tourniquet above or below the elbow?


 I never had a problem donating they took the 475ml in under 3mins


----------



## bornagod

Jonk891 said:


> I never had a problem donating they took the 475ml in under 3mins


 Do you know if its an 18g needle the use when donating at a centre?

Im starting to think i may not have gone in deep enough of an angle into the vein or straight through it, idk, ill just try again one day in the week on the other arm.


----------



## Jonk891

bornagod said:


> Do you know if its an 18g needle the use when donating at a centre?
> 
> Im starting to think i may not have gone in deep enough of an angle into the vein or straight through it, idk, ill just try again one day in the week on the other arm.


 Im not sure didn't really take any notice all I know was I think I broke a record for how fast it come out lol


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Thanks @ElChapo
> 
> now dnp, a lot of people suggest it's not near as effective when already lean? What are your thoughts?


 The body holds on to fat more the leaner you are, that comes with the territory. DNP will still rapidly melt fat if used correctly.

The body can easily let go of +2 lbs of pure fat per week when over 20% body fat, but once you hit <9% you are looking at 0.75 lbs of fat per week with calorie deficit alone, any more and you risk losing muscle as well.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what are your thoughts on metformin
> 
> i was thinking of running it during cruises as i always run insulin and some combo of peptides or GH a few times per year
> 
> ive read arguments both for and against metformin and its effect on muscle protein synthesis and androgen receptor density
> 
> is most of this out the window on those that are enhanced ?


 It tends to improve body composition and metabolic health, people will lose weight on it.

There are some studies showing it can negatively effect testosterone and certain muscle building pathways.

Now, A LOT of these studies are done in vitro, which means "test tube" not on live subjects or animals which makes the results shoddy at best until proven further ( Grape seed extract was an awesome AI in vitro, but it does zilch in humans for E2)

Some people get weird side effects like excess weight loss and GI upset, i'm holding off myself for now as i feel pretty good and have everything dialed in. You could experiment with it and see how it affects your body comp, strength and how you feel. Remember, the compound originally came from a medicinal plant used for centuries, pretty interesting compound.

I tend to agree that most of this is definitely out the windows an enhanced athlete/bodybuilder, and their may be some positive synergy here. We still need more data. I would love to hear some more experiences from AAS users. This stuff has saved many lives in the diabetic community, it's a miracle in it's own right just for that.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what are your thoughts on metformin
> 
> i was thinking of running it during cruises as i always run insulin and some combo of peptides or GH a few times per year
> 
> ive read arguments both for and against metformin and its effect on muscle protein synthesis and androgen receptor density
> 
> is most of this out the window on those that are enhanced ?


 A friend of mine says he gets diminished pumps but he lost 10 lbs and had reduced appetite, he's on TRT, a little deca.

If you want some data, these guys go over and discuss it very thoroughly, Nelson Vergel knows his s**t when it comes to men's wellness :


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Ye after id written about the asprin i thought nah fùck that, thats just stupid lol. Ye tried the fist pumping but nothing.
> 
> View attachment 147974
> 
> 
> From the pic (black lines are roughly where i inserted needle) would it be better to have the tourniquet above or below the elbow?


 Above, you should be able to google a phlebotomy manual and watch some instructional vids. You will get it, just keep researching.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Do you know if its an 18g needle the use when donating at a centre?
> 
> Im starting to think i may not have gone in deep enough of an angle into the vein or straight through it, idk, ill just try again one day in the week on the other arm.


 16 gauge where i donate.


----------



## u2pride

@ElChapo

Could you suggest how to dose these 3 compunds?:

Yohimbine HCL 10mg

ECA 20efe/150caff/80asp

Clen 40mg


----------



## JUICE1

ElChapo said:


> A friend of mine says he gets diminished pumps but he lost 10 lbs and had reduced appetite, he's on TRT, a little deca.
> 
> If you want some data, these guys go over and discuss it very thoroughly, Nelson Vergel knows his s**t when it comes to men's wellness :


 I'm currently taking 1g Berberine + 1g Metformin per day while cutting and I do have really low appetite considering I've just switched from bulking, maybe this is why then. I was eating 4-5k cal/day but the last few days even 1.5k cal seems to be enough to keep hunger at bay.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> 16 gauge where i donate.


 Ye im sure ill get there. Wooo thats scary big lol


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Could you suggest how to dose these 3 compunds?:
> 
> Yohimbine HCL 10mg
> 
> ECA 20efe/150caff/80asp
> 
> Clen 40mg


 I would only combine EC and yohimbine. That's already a crazy strong stack and only for experienced stim users with good tolerance.

20 mg ephedrine/200 mg caffeine/10-20 mg yohimbine. The 20 mg yohimbine is a max dose and ONLY if you have a high tolerance. Yohimbine can cause panic attacks, anxiety and palpitations.

Yohimbine can increase erection size and hardness and offsets the erection issues some people get from stimulants like EC.

Make sure you have used EC and yohimbine as standalone before you combine them so that you know how you react and what your tolerance level is.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> I would only combine EC and yohimbine. That's already a crazy strong stack and only for experienced stim users with good tolerance.
> 
> 20 mg ephedrine/200 mg caffeine/10-20 mg yohimbine. The 20 mg yohimbine is a max dose and ONLY if you have a high tolerance. Yohimbine can cause panic attacks, anxiety and palpitations.
> 
> Yohimbine can increase erection size and hardness and offsets the erection issues some people get from stimulants like EC.
> 
> Make sure you have used EC and yohimbine as standalone before you combine them so that you know how you react and what your tolerance level is.


 I thought 20efe/200caff/10yohimbine empty stomach and then workout.

And during the rest of the day?

How many weeks?

If I react well to stim, next round could be Yohimbine (10mg) and Clen (40mg) pre workout?


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> I thought 20efe/200caff/10yohimbine empty stomach and then workout.
> 
> And during the rest of the day?
> 
> How many weeks?
> 
> If I react well to stim, next round could be Yohimbine (10mg) and Clen (40mg) pre workout?


 Yohimbine once in the morning, the EC you can repeat two more times in the day. Personally, i would only dose EC twice, i never found it necessary to run x 3 daily.

I would not mix yohimbine and clenbuterol, there is zero reason to do this.

Caloric deficit plus ECY stack will torch fat.

If you want even more horsepower, add low dose DNP. ECY+200 mg DNP+caloric deficit will shred you like nothing else. Period.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

What is the root cause of heart enlargement while using AAS and the thickening of the wall?

Is it due to frequent/perma high BP or the fact AAS make all muscles grow in addition to skeletal muscles?

Or does high LDL also have something to do with this?

My BP is always around 120 /70ish regardless of what I run for the record. BPM rested are around 60.

Lipids are always in range unless I use tren which I have only once for 6 weeks.

I'm looking to do an echocardiogram early next year for precaution and to be honest a little nervous what may be found. I could burry my head in the sand but I would prefer to know early on.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What is the root cause of heart enlargement while using AAS and the thickening of the wall?
> 
> Is it due to frequent/perma high BP or the fact AAS make all muscles grow in addition to skeletal muscles?
> 
> Or does high LDL also have something to do with this?
> 
> My BP is always around 120 /70ish regardless of what I run for the record. BPM rested are around 60.
> 
> Lipids are always in range unless I use tren which I have only once for 6 weeks.
> 
> I'm looking to do an echocardiogram early next year for precaution and to be honest a little nervous what may be found. I could burry my head in the sand but I would prefer to know early on.


 Androgen receptors on cardiac myocytes.

High BP and weight lifting will increase the androgen induced hypertrophy

LDL has nothing to do with hypertrophy, but will contribute to stiffening of the arteries and calcification of the lining of the blood vessels.


----------



## green81

How safe is stacking 50mg winstrol and 50mg anavar? (assuming my anavar isn't fake)


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> How safe is stacking 50mg winstrol and 50mg anavar? (assuming my anavar isn't fake)


 Safe in what way? Liver enzymes will be elevated, it's a question of how long the compounds are going to be run for, if you are taking TUDCA, and your genetic predisposition to liver disease and lifestyle (recreational drugs, etc)

If you're wondering, there is no inherent synergystic toxicty from mixing orals contrary to popular belief. If anything, 50/50 winstrol/var is less toxic than 100 mg winstrol.


----------



## Big Ian

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what are your thoughts on metformin
> 
> i was thinking of running it during cruises as i always run insulin and some combo of peptides or GH a few times per year
> 
> ive read arguments both for and against metformin and its effect on muscle protein synthesis and androgen receptor density
> 
> is most of this out the window on those that are enhanced ?


 Why don't you look into berberine mate, it's been shown to be as effective as metformin in terms of lowering blood sugar and increasing insulin sensitivity but has loads of other health benefits too and it's natural.

ive recently started using it and feel much better on it than metformin, that always makes me feel nauseous and gives me a weird metallic taste in my mouth constantly.

ive definitely noticed some body composition changes (subtle changes mind) since I started using about 3 weeks ago and I've also noticed food cravings have decreased noticeably at the same time.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Androgen receptors on cardiac myocytes.
> 
> High BP and weight lifting will increase the androgen induced hypertrophy
> 
> LDL has nothing to do with hypertrophy, but will contribute to stiffening of the arteries and calcification of the lining of the blood vessels.


 So there is no way of avoiding it then


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Safe in what way? Liver enzymes will be elevated, it's a question of how long the compounds are going to be run for, if you are taking TUDCA, and your genetic predisposition to liver disease and lifestyle (recreational drugs, etc)
> 
> If you're wondering, there is no inherent synergystic toxicty from mixing orals contrary to popular belief. If anything, 50/50 winstrol/var is less toxic than 100 mg winstrol.


 What tudca dosage would you recommend I started var today and have a load of 250mg tudcas


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> So there is no way of avoiding it then


 It can be reversed, but sometimes the dysfunction is permanent.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> What tudca dosage would you recommend I started var today and have a load of 250mg tudcas


 250 mg daily


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg daily


 Along with 1400mg nac ?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Along with 1400mg nac ?


 500 mg-1,000 mg is enough


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> 500 mg-1,000 mg is enough


 What does nac bring to the table over and above tudca


----------



## swole troll

Big Ian said:


> Why don't you look into berberine mate, it's been shown to be as effective as metformin in terms of lowering blood sugar and increasing insulin sensitivity but has loads of other health benefits too and it's natural.
> 
> ive recently started using it and feel much better on it than metformin, that always makes me feel nauseous and gives me a weird metallic taste in my mouth constantly.
> 
> ive definitely noticed some body composition changes (subtle changes mind) since I started using about 3 weeks ago and I've also noticed food cravings have decreased noticeably at the same time.


 i was using it recently but regularly took it fasted and noticed fa difference

could be that my fasted bg was just so jacked up

i might give it another go

what brand and dosing do you use mate>?


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> 500 mg-1,000 mg is enough


 is it safe to run year round

ive the intention of taking 600mg pre bed year round since my liver enzymes do have a tendency to jack up (and stay up) on orals


----------



## Jonk891

swole troll said:


> is it safe to run year round
> 
> ive the intention of taking 600mg pre bed year round since my liver enzymes do have a tendency to jack up (and stay up) on orals


 Is there a benefit with pre bed other than morning I usually take it with food


----------



## swole troll

Jonk891 said:


> Is there a benefit with pre bed other than morning I usually take it with food


 ive heard it interacts with the absorption of oral steroids which i take in the AM pre training

ive also read its advisable to take it with a multi vit which the one i take contains vitamin C that i like to keep as far away from training as possible for the following reason

"The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of vitamin C and E supplementation on adaptations to strength training. Our results are equivocal because we observed an inhibition of the acute protein signalling after a standardized strength exercise session, but there were no significant group differences in muscle protein fractional synthetic rate or muscle growth over 10 weeks of training. Still, the gains in muscle strength were partly blunted in the vitamin C and E group. It therefore appears that vitamin C and E supplementation can interfere with the cellular signalling after exercise, such as MAPKs, and ubiquitination, but redundancy in the pathways may overpower most of these effects, and adaptions over time are less affected. Nevertheless, we suggest that young, healthy individuals who exercise for improved strength and muscle growth should avoid consuming high dosages of vitamins C and E close to the exercise sessions because, if anything, the effects tend to be undesirable"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270502/


----------



## Big Ian

swole troll said:


> i was using it recently but regularly took it fasted and noticed fa difference
> 
> could be that my fasted bg was just so jacked up
> 
> i might give it another go
> 
> what brand and dosing do you use mate>?


 Using swanson from healthmonthly 400mg 2-3 times a day.

A couple of times ive tried it on an empty stomach and then left it about half an hour before eating before and started getting a strange pressure headache every time, which left within an hour of eating.


----------



## Sphinkter

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What is the root cause of heart enlargement while using AAS and the thickening of the wall?
> 
> Is it due to frequent/perma high BP or the fact AAS make all muscles grow in addition to skeletal muscles?
> 
> Or does high LDL also have something to do with this?
> 
> My BP is always around 120 /70ish regardless of what I run for the record. BPM rested are around 60.
> 
> Lipids are always in range unless I use tren which I have only once for 6 weeks.
> 
> I'm looking to do an echocardiogram early next year for precaution and to be honest a little nervous what may be found. I could burry my head in the sand but I would prefer to know early on.


 Something thats been bothering me too recently, so much so im considering just packing it in for peace of mind lol.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> What does nac bring to the table over and above tudca


 It's not better, it provides extra anti-oxidant support and restores glutathione stores.


----------



## Teol

Hi @ElChapo and @ghost.recon. It's great to have you both here! I've read through these threads and it's been like an online university course in aas. Thanks guys.

Are there any specific issues an older guy (I'm 44) should be aware of when new to AAS?

I've been lifting and training since my twenties and two years ago I started with an Anavar only cycle (that is obviously not a good thing to do, but I got decent results and recovered alright). I took the plunge in January this year and ran Test at 400mg for 16 weeks. I loved the results. I already have kids and decided not to PCT so cruised at 125-150 a week. I essentially repeated the same cycle for 8 weeks this summer and still got results. I have no intention of coming off now.

I'm looking to start a cycle of Test 550 and NPP 200. I have taken bloods pre, during and post cycle. Everything has been alright except HCT creeping up, though donating blood has lowered it and my CK levels got up to 1200. My blood pressure has remained under 130 and I take the supps recommended here.

I'm not looking to compete but I am enjoying the benefits in how I look and feel. My goals are to look better, continue to get stronger, stay active and be healthy.


----------



## ElChapo

Teol said:


> Hi @ElChapo and @ghost.recon. It's great to have you both here! I've read through these threads and it's been like an online university course in aas. Thanks guys.
> 
> Are there any specific issues an older guy (I'm 44) should be aware of when new to AAS?
> 
> I've been lifting and training since my twenties and two years ago I started with an Anavar only cycle (that is obviously not a good thing to do, but I got decent results and recovered alright). I took the plunge in January this year and ran Test at 400mg for 16 weeks. I loved the results. I already have kids and decided not to PCT so cruised at 125-150 a week. I essentially repeated the same cycle for 8 weeks this summer and still got results. I have no intention of coming off now.
> 
> I'm looking to start a cycle of Test 550 and NPP 200. I have taken bloods pre, during and post cycle. Everything has been alright except HCT creeping up, though donating blood has lowered it and my CK levels got up to 1200. My blood pressure has remained under 130 and I take the supps recommended here.
> 
> I'm not looking to compete but I am enjoying the benefits in how I look and feel. My goals are to look better, continue to get stronger, stay active and be healthy.


 The healthiest thing you can do is build up the muscle you want and go back to TRT indefinitely.

Its hard for most men to do because they are never satisfied, but eventually you should be able to reach your goals within reason and maintain on TRT .

Unless you have aspirations for freak size and even that eventually will have to come to an end if you want to make it past 60 years of age.


----------



## superdrol

Youve said red wine is good for us, does it have the same effects in women and men if a glass ed or eod is beneficial, what exactly does it do for us? I can see why the mediteranean diet also benefits from a glass of red wine included (is it just limited to red or can white or rose be a little less effective but still ok? Or is it something specific in red?


----------



## Teol

ElChapo said:


> The healthiest thing you can do is build up the muscle you want and go back to TRT indefinitely.
> 
> Its hard for most men to do because they are never satisfied, but eventually you should be able to reach your goals within reason and maintain on TRT .
> 
> Unless you have aspirations for freak size and even that eventually will have to come to an end if you want to make it past 60 years of age.


 Cheers, mate. That is my plan; I have no aspirations to be freaky. I do like being the strongest guy I know and the benefits in mood and libido are, frankly, awesome, lol. I was nervous about adding in anything other than Test but didn't want to be running it at increasingly high doses. I think one or two more cycles will get me to where I want to be and then I'm comfortable running TRT at no more than 150. I want to live another 44 years - but I want a great quality of life for those years!


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Tell us your goals (strength/physique/etc) it will help us guide you a bit better. Do you plan on PCT or cruising/HRT, are your goals physique oriented? What kind of physique? Strength?
> 
> Every cycle and protocol will be different depending on goals, genetics, experience levels, sensitivity to side effects.
> 
> Some people are extremely sensitive to aromatization and have a hard time running high testosterone, they will tend to keep it at 150-300 mg and run other anabolics. Others can't handle trenbolone sides such as insomnia and emotional instability/anxiety, stubborn gyno or severe ED. So they will keep it very low or omit it completely.
> 
> As you learn from your experiences, you will start to see what works and doesn't work for you, but you can take some advice and knowledge from the guys that have already been there and make the road a bit smoother for yourself.


 Ultimately, it's just to be as jacked as I can possibly be, quality dense muscle, remaining dry, freak strength and to be functional. MMA is a long term goal. I'm close to fighters, who've now turned pro. I know, I'd have to sacrifice or least ditch muscle/bodybuilding side of things by then. which I'd be ok with, but for now, I'm primarily focused towards maximising myself, building muscle & strength, I got sick of fighting small and feeling sh1t for it. I've recently switched to HIT, low vol/high freq and will revert back & forth with higher volume.

I want a solid dry physique, appearing much heavier than I am, with freak relative strength. DL 300kg+, Bench 200kg+ I hate to draw comparisons, but Mike O' Hearn has the right balance imo. jacked & functional with it.

to suggest stats, 5' 11 @ 180lbs 8 - 10% is the first goal. I may be satisfied with this, but you know, many say the same. I definitely don't want to exceed 210 ever. my frame is small, tiny waist/wide clavicles. I'm toying with the idea of B&C until I want to maintain, maybe then TRT route or power pct. I never want to step on stage.


----------



## ghost.recon

Teol said:


> Hi @ElChapo and @ghost.recon. It's great to have you both here! I've read through these threads and it's been like an online university course in aas. Thanks guys.
> 
> Are there any specific issues an older guy (I'm 44) should be aware of when new to AAS?
> 
> I've been lifting and training since my twenties and two years ago I started with an Anavar only cycle (that is obviously not a good thing to do, but I got decent results and recovered alright). I took the plunge in January this year and ran Test at 400mg for 16 weeks. I loved the results. I already have kids and decided not to PCT so cruised at 125-150 a week. I essentially repeated the same cycle for 8 weeks this summer and still got results. I have no intention of coming off now.
> 
> I'm looking to start a cycle of Test 550 and NPP 200. I have taken bloods pre, during and post cycle. Everything has been alright except HCT creeping up, though donating blood has lowered it and my CK levels got up to 1200. My blood pressure has remained under 130 and I take the supps recommended here.
> 
> I'm not looking to compete but I am enjoying the benefits in how I look and feel. My goals are to look better, continue to get stronger, stay active and be healthy.


 You have covered most things.

- Keep BP under control
- Do plenty of cardio
- Keep your estrogen levels within healthy ranges
- Use minimal dosages, I think you can get away with less test with your npp cycle
- Donate blood as and when needed


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Youve said red wine is good for us, does it have the same effects in women and men if a glass ed or eod is beneficial, what exactly does it do for us? I can see why the mediteranean diet also benefits from a glass of red wine included (is it just limited to red or can white or rose be a little less effective but still ok? Or is it something specific in red?


 Polyphenols from the grapes, resveratrol and quercetin. Low alcohol intake also has positive effects on lipids/other health outcomes and people who drink a bit live longer than those who abstain completely.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Ultimately, it's just to be as jacked as I can possibly be, quality dense muscle, remaining dry, freak strength and to be functional. MMA is a long term goal. I'm close to fighters, who've now turned pro. I know, I'd have to sacrifice or least ditch muscle/bodybuilding side of things by then. which I'd be ok with, but for now, I'm primarily focused towards maximising myself, building muscle & strength, I got sick of fighting small and feeling sh1t for it. I've recently switched to HIT, low vol/high freq and will revert back & forth with higher volume.
> 
> I want a solid dry physique, appearing much heavier than I am, with freak relative strength. DL 300kg+, Bench 200kg+ I hate to draw comparisons, but Mike O' Hearn has the right balance imo. jacked & functional with it.
> 
> to suggest stats, 5' 11 @ 180lbs 8 - 10% is the first goal. I may be satisfied with this, but you know, many say the same. I definitely don't want to exceed 210 ever. my frame is small, tiny waist/wide clavicles. I'm toying with the idea of B&C until I want to maintain, maybe then TRT route or power pct. I never want to step on stage.


 http://symmetricstrength.com/

This is a good tool to see where you stand on the world stage in terms of your strength level. It's pretty harsh for most people, it's the strictest i've seen. It's an ego smasher for most people. You can put in goal strength and weight and see where that would put you to give you an idea of how achievable it is.

The "WORLD CLASS" tier can only be achieved by genetically gifted individuals and even AAS and PEDs will not overcome that genetic barrier.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Recently i bought some injectable Superdrol 40mg/ml (i weight 93kg at 7% atm) do you think that i can run:

300 TestE 400 TrenE 140 Superdrol ew for something like 14 weeks?

Do you think that injectable orals like: Winstrol, Superdrol, Dbol, Anadrol in injectable form are less hepatotoxic and can be run for more time?


----------



## ghost.recon

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Recently i bought some injectable Superdrol 40mg/ml (i weight 93kg at 7% atm) do you think that i can run:
> 
> 300 TestE 400 TrenE 140 Superdrol ew for something like 14 weeks?
> 
> Do you think that injectable orals like: Winstrol, Superdrol, Dbol, Anadrol in injectable form are less hepatotoxic and can be run for more time?


 10mg superdrol per day is more than enough to see results. It is potent stuff.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Recently i bought some injectable Superdrol 40mg/ml (i weight 93kg at 7% atm) do you think that i can run:
> 
> 300 TestE 400 TrenE 140 Superdrol ew for something like 14 weeks?
> 
> Do you think that injectable orals like: Winstrol, Superdrol, Dbol, Anadrol in injectable form are less hepatotoxic and can be run for more time?


 Injectable orals have higher bioavailability and longer half-life with less hepatotoxicity.

As @ghost.recon stated, superdrol is really strong. 10-20 mg will do the trick.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Androgen receptors on cardiac myocytes.
> 
> High BP and weight lifting will increase the androgen induced hypertrophy
> 
> LDL has nothing to do with hypertrophy, but will contribute to stiffening of the arteries and calcification of the lining of the blood vessels.


 Ok so I take it not using high doses and doing regular long crises is the way to prevent heart growth assuming BP is always in check.

I assume a compounds with higher androgen rating will have more of an impact on hypertrophy?

Any thing else that can be done to prevent this happening or is it generally over hyped?

Does the heart atrophy when coming off of AAS like scelital muscles would?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Ok so I take it not using high doses and doing regular long crises is the way to prevent heart growth assuming BP is always in check.
> 
> I assume a compounds with higher androgen rating will have more of an impact on hypertrophy?
> 
> Any thing else that can be done to prevent this happening or is it generally over hyped?
> 
> Does the heart atrophy when coming off of AAS like scelital muscles would?


 Don't forget insulin/GH will also increase heart growth.

The heart atrophy can reverse, but extensive use can cause fibrosis in heart tissue, basically scarring/non-functional tissue.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Don't forget insulin/GH will also increase heart growth.
> 
> The heart atrophy can reverse, but extensive use can cause fibrosis in heart tissue, basically scarring/non-functional tissue.


 Thanks, I don't and will never use GH or insulin but good to know for other people reading.

I am trying to stick only to test and DHB moving forward. Is DHB "less harsh" mg for mg to testosterone?

Personal question here, does heart enlargement worry you in any way given that you as far as I understand are a long term user and will continue to use?

heart enlargement and enlarge prostate are the only 2 the worry me to be fair. BP, rested BPM, cholesterol, bloods are always on point.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks, I don't and will never use GH or insulin but good to know for other people reading.
> 
> I am trying to stick only to test and DHB moving forward. Is DHB "less harsh" mg for mg to testosterone?
> 
> Personal question here, does heart enlargement worry you in any way given that you as far as I understand are a long term user and will continue to use?
> 
> heart enlargement and enlarge prostate are the only 2 the worry me to be fair. BP, rested BPM, cholesterol, bloods are always on point.


 I am cautious but i live my life to live it, if you take decent care of yourself and don't have any bad genetic predispositions, you can make it into your golden years in good health (think arnold/stallone).

We don't have much data on DHB honestly, i wouldn't know how it would affect heart enlargement.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo @ghost.recon what are your opinions/experience with stacking a few orals at a lower dose rather than 1 at normal dose

I have a few part pots left and was considering on next cycle maybe trying

sdrol 10mg, winni, 25mg, oxy 25-50mg. Would this be ok and worth it sides/gains over say 50-100mg winni

winni is my fav oral by far and I have no problem with buying more and running that by itself but just wondering whether the benefits/sides would be worth stacking the above as they're all on the low side with dose


----------



## Jordan08

Starz said:


> How would you rate the content & quality of this multivitamin?
> 
> View attachment 147720


 Which brand is this mate?. Looks solid


----------



## Bull Terrier

ElChapo - do you think that androgens exert greater effects on muscle size and strength when you commence the cycle very lean (sub 10%)?

I've heard on other forums (i.e. the now defunct datbtrue forum) that this is so, but I've never found anything on pubmed to really show this to be true.


----------



## Devil

Bull Terrier said:


> ElChapo - do you think that androgens exert greater effects on muscle size and strength when you commence the cycle very lean (sub 10%)?
> 
> I've heard on other forums (i.e. the now defunct datbtrue forum) that this is so, but I've never found anything on pubmed to really show this to be true.


 Sure elchapo will confirm but I've also read multiple times that every single AAS works (sometimes significantly depending on individual genetics) better the leaner you are

Looking forward to his reply


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon what are your opinions/experience with stacking a few orals at a lower dose rather than 1 at normal dose
> 
> I have a few part pots left and was considering on next cycle maybe trying
> 
> sdrol 10mg, winni, 25mg, oxy 25-50mg. Would this be ok and worth it sides/gains over say 50-100mg winni
> 
> winni is my fav oral by far and I have no problem with buying more and running that by itself but just wondering whether the benefits/sides would be worth stacking the above as they're all on the low side with dose


 No issues, it's like mixing injectables ie. 300/300/300 test/tren/mast vs 900 mg testosterone. Some people seem to think toxicity increases when mixing orals, this is 100% false.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> ElChapo - do you think that androgens exert greater effects on muscle size and strength when you commence the cycle very lean (sub 10%)?
> 
> I've heard on other forums (i.e. the now defunct datbtrue forum) that this is so, but I've never found anything on pubmed to really show this to be true.


 Only because the body is more sensitive to the effects of insulin/igf in a lean state, not to mention the fact that results are lot more visible when lean vs high body fat percentage. The individual effects of each AAS will shine through when one is lean (polishing effect of mass, dryness/vascularity of winstrol, deca/tren pump etc)

A dedicated bodybuilder should never go above 15% if he wants to maximize results, aesthetics and health. I like to bulk to 15-18% max, and cut down to 9-10% repeat until satisfied.

The higher your bodyfat percentage, the less robustly your cells respond to insulin/igf. This is why some people with mild diabetes have reverse it completely after losing a lot of fat.


----------



## Pancake'

A side from the 3 compounds that you favour, what's your stance on primo?


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> A side from the 3 compounds that you favour, what's your stance on primo?


 Answered this recently, don't see any need for primobolan. The other three are more accessible and extremely effective at what they do.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> http://symmetricstrength.com/
> 
> This is a good tool to see where you stand on the world stage in terms of your strength level. It's pretty harsh for most people, it's the strictest i've seen. It's an ego smasher for most people. You can put in goal strength and weight and see where that would put you to give you an idea of how achievable it is.
> 
> The "WORLD CLASS" tier can only be achieved by genetically gifted individuals and even AAS and PEDs will not overcome that genetic barrier.


 Thanks for the link :thumbup1: was very interesting to see results will be using it from now on


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Thanks for the link :thumbup1: was very interesting to see results will be using it from now on


 Yeah, it's fun to use. If you do well on there, you will be considered strong by anyone's standards.


----------



## feelinfine

What is the point of diminishing returns with tren? At 300mg pw I saw phenomenal results.

If I were to bump it to 500mg, would I see even more crazy gains? Or just increased side effects?


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> What is the point of diminishing returns with tren? At 300mg pw I saw phenomenal results.
> 
> If I were to bump it to 500mg, would I see even more crazy gains? Or just increased side effects?


 A lot more sides, strength can go up as well as mass and vascularity, but the people sensitive to sides will suffer. Terrible insomnia, soft erections, depression/mood swings.

Some guys tolerate it fairly well and can push it up to 1 gram. You can build a tolerance to the mental sides, but physical sides like anorexia, ED, gynecomastia and insomnia won't go away.

200-300 mg ace/enanthate per week is a sweet spot for many people and will give you body recomp, polish to the physique without most sides. For strength and mass, the higher doses start to shine but sides go up. I can see a difference in physique on 100 mg per week of tren ace with 100 mg test prop.

I would base my actions on your goals and tolerance to sides. If you are powerlifting and need more strength or are an advanced bodybuilder and can handle the sides, you could experiment with higher doses.


----------



## feelinfine

At 300mg (was running tren hex) I didn't get much side effects. Aside from being more sweaty. Slept fine, no mood problems, sex drive was great, etc.

I thought to myself since I am making great gains at 300mg there is no point of going higher. But there is just something in the back of my mind.

Wondering if gains can get even better. Maybe I am lucky that I don't experience sides on tren or maybe I haven't pushed the dose high enough to get them.

Thanks for your advice, I really like this thread. Keep up the good work in here!


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> At 300mg (was running tren hex) I didn't get much side effects. Aside from being more sweaty. Slept fine, no mood problems, sex drive was great, etc.
> 
> I thought to myself since I am making great gains at 300mg there is no point of going higher. But there is just something in the back of my mind.
> 
> Wondering if gains can get even better. Maybe I am lucky that I don't experience sides on tren or maybe I haven't pushed the dose high enough to get them.
> 
> Thanks for your advice, I really like this thread. Keep up the good work in here!


 Yeah, 300 mg is great. Maybe bump it for next cycle if you want to experiment. Worst case scenario, you can cut back the dosage. 600 mg is a solid bump and you will feel it more.


----------



## green81

If I'm on a severe calorie deficit (-1500 deficit) will about 4 months of e3d pinning on 6 sites (glutes, quads, ventro) cause scar tissue problems? 25 gauge


----------



## stewedw

Proviron for women? Dose, any use or anavar winny instead. Effects, pros and cons?


----------



## mangob

Does it make sense to run Test, Tren +EQ in one cycle? would it even make sense to add mast and prov? or either?

building something, but doubting whether I will get out of it what I want.


----------



## superdrol

Odd one you may or may not be able to help with

background - since feb I have a bulging disc that causes pins and needles in right foot and a numb calf (this has reduced since first onset) I initially got random pulsing in my quad but this has gone

also have a complication with my right knee (bursitis) so same leg but haven't trained legs for 3 months maybe

been on test and deca 600/450 for 14 weeks now, in the last 6 weeks I'd say I've been waking up first thing and standing up it feels like all my muscles (calf muscles mainly but sometimes hips/quads/hamstrings are tight)kinda like after you get cramp you have to straighten your leg to stretch the muscle a bit, can be fairly painful for first few seconds, but then eases off and will only sometimes return after a spell of sitting down and hips then feel tight in the same way and I have to gently straighten myself up and sort myself out by gently stretching

any ideas? Is is simply the fact I'm still for ages and then come to move? Just seems strange that its happened now at age forty and never before, have you ever heard of deca causing anything like this? As it's first time I've ran it so long, it may be tied into my back but I think it effects both legs but I can't say I've take note of one being worse than the other, could be worse on the right but I wouldn't want to stake my life on it though 

any input welcome


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

HGH and Insulin

I have noticed that you advocate for high carbs medium prots low fats bulking macros.

How you would combine 6iu HGH pharma grade and Humalog/HumalinR for maximize IGF1.

I was thinking to do something like 1iu HGH+3iu HumalinR (Humalog) every 3h.

Like coach Trevor from EA advices.... What do you think?

12w Test tren W HGH Slin... Damn this should be an hell of a cycle....


----------



## feelinfine

Hey, I had a question, how sensitive are peptides like hcg/hgh? I made a thread on this earlier but it appears that it got deleted for some reason.

When I reconstitute my peptides, even when I am careful, I see little bubbles form as the powder dissolves into the bac water.

Does this mean the potency is degraded? The solution itself is still clear, not cloudy. I am just worried because I keep reading online how fragile these hormones are.


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

Hey, Just thought I should update u and ask one more Q Please.

I didn't take the AI-Adex all last week, Still Felt dry skin, weakness in str, lack of motivation ect... No itchy nips yet either, However I'm starting to get headaches about 7 days later now and My weight went up 4.4lbs in a week and normally for the past 2 weeks it's been going down slowly cause of poor diet, so I'm assuming e2 is raising and holding bloat (it looks like it too). I'm going to check BP soon. I'm already on 15mg cia and 4 fish oils, but I think I need more for BP. I have Verpamil for BP 120mg pills, do u know how I can add that to help lower BP? I never used them before. Any other ways to lower BP? My Feet and wrists seem to be going "numbish" when I sleep and it's hard to pass out now.

I also wanted to ask about calories surplus. I always thought that the way calories for growth worked was "get in all ur calories, macros before sleep" and u will grow over night and the next day or 2. So Lets say my bulk was 5,500 cals, I ate 4800 of them and then it was time for sleep and I was full in the tank, then I set a alarm for 2-3 hours later....Wake up and eat another 300-400 cals and do the same again. Does that count towards the past days cals for growth or the coming forth day or does it not work that way and it's just non stop every 2-3 hours...?


----------



## superdrol

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey, Just thought I should update u and ask one more Q Please.
> 
> I didn't take the AI-Adex all last week, Still Felt dry skin, weakness in str, lack of motivation ect... No itchy nips yet either, However I'm starting to get headaches about 7 days later now and My weight went up 4.4lbs in a week and normally for the past 2 weeks it's been going down slowly cause of poor diet, so I'm assuming e2 is raising and holding bloat (it looks like it too). I'm going to check BP soon. I'm already on 15mg cia and 4 fish oils, but I think I need more for BP. I have Verpamil for BP 120mg pills, do u know how I can add that to help lower BP? I never used them before. Any other ways to lower BP? My Feet and wrists seem to be going "numbish" when I sleep and it's hard to pass out now.
> 
> I also wanted to ask about calories surplus. I always thought that the way calories for growth worked was "get in all ur calories, macros before sleep" and u will grow over night and the next day or 2. So Lets say my bulk was 5,500 cals, I ate 4800 of them and then it was time for sleep and I was full in the tank, then I set a alarm for 2-3 hours later....Wake up and eat another 300-400 cals and do the same again. Does that count towards the past days cals for growth or the coming forth day or does it not work that way and it's just non stop every 2-3 hours...?


 Average calories over a week, your overthinking, your body doesn't care when it gets calories, although I'd be more concerned about not getting 8hrs solid kip vs missing some food for a day


----------



## Dead lee

superdrol said:


> Odd one you may or may not be able to help with
> 
> background - since feb I have a bulging disc that causes pins and needles in right foot and a numb calf (this has reduced since first onset) I initially got random pulsing in my quad but this has gone
> 
> also have a complication with my right knee (bursitis) so same leg but haven't trained legs for 3 months maybe
> 
> been on test and deca 600/450 for 14 weeks now, in the last 6 weeks I'd say I've been waking up first thing and standing up it feels like all my muscles (calf muscles mainly but sometimes hips/quads/hamstrings are tight)kinda like after you get cramp you have to straighten your leg to stretch the muscle a bit, can be fairly painful for first few seconds, but then eases off and will only sometimes return after a spell of sitting down and hips then feel tight in the same way and I have to gently straighten myself up and sort myself out by gently stretching
> 
> any ideas? Is is simply the fact I'm still for ages and then come to move? Just seems strange that its happened now at age forty and never before, have you ever heard of deca causing anything like this? As it's first time I've ran it so long, it may be tied into my back but I think it effects both legs but I can't say I've take note of one being worse than the other, could be worse on the right but I wouldn't want to stake my life on it though
> 
> any input welcome


 I will help answer this for you, it's sciatica you have, the disc bulges out when you lose the arch in your back like sleeping or sitting, presses on the sciatic nerve, causes all sorts of actions to the sciatic nerve which runs from your back to your foot, numbness, pain, sharp shooting pains, twitches etc etc.

It can be excruciating, you need to tread carefully you can make it worse if you mistreat it, ruined my life for a long time, most was my own doing playing football and not recovering it, fully recovered now thank fcuk but took years.


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo @ghost.recon or anyone who can answer it really.

So basically had highish hct .51 - 52 so donated myself last thursday, so that probably dropped it to around 48 49 but want to get it down a little again. So i was wondering when would be ok to donate again, 2 weeks??


----------



## ghost.recon

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon or anyone who can answer it really.
> 
> So basically had highish hct .51 - 52 so donated myself last thursday, so that probably dropped it to around 48 49 but want to get it down a little again. So i was wondering when would be ok to donate again, 2 weeks??


 Once a month. Do aerobic cardio, this increases RBC turn over. The more you use your RBC, the shorter their lifespan before they are destroyed in the spleen. Marathon runners for example have very short RBC life span but their RBC production is much greater.


----------



## bornagod

ghost.recon said:


> Once a month. Do aerobic cardio, this increases RBC turn over. The more you use your RBC, the shorter their lifespan before they are destroyed in the spleen. Marathon runners for example have very short RBC life span but their RBC production is much greater.


 Ah right ok thanks. I cycle quite a bit but a knee injury and the weather hasnt helped lately but once the weather gets a bit better ill be back on the bike so you think that'll help also?


----------



## ElChapo

green81 said:


> If I'm on a severe calorie deficit (-1500 deficit) will about 4 months of e3d pinning on 6 sites (glutes, quads, ventro) cause scar tissue problems? 25 gauge


 You would be fine unless the concentration is very high and cause significant pip, you get infections, or overuse the sites.

I recommend using insulin needle when possible, its the best way to inject with minimal pain and scarring.

I used to pin a ton of high pip brew when i first started brewing, and i did it for over a year (experimenting with concentrations/solutions). No scar tissue


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Proviron for women? Dose, any use or anavar winny instead. Effects, pros and cons?


 I only recommend Anavar/winstrol for beginner-intermediate.

NPP injectablefor intermediate-advanced

Test prop or c for female HRT. 10-20 mg per week.

Max dose for weekly injectable 100 mg. 10-20 mg ED for orals.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> Does it make sense to run Test, Tren +EQ in one cycle? would it even make sense to add mast and prov? or either?
> 
> building something, but doubting whether I will get out of it what I want.


 I'm not an EQ guy. Masteron adds some synergy to test/tren. It frees up testosterone and polishes the physique further. It can help mitigate some E2 and tren side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Odd one you may or may not be able to help with
> 
> background - since feb I have a bulging disc that causes pins and needles in right foot and a numb calf (this has reduced since first onset) I initially got random pulsing in my quad but this has gone
> 
> also have a complication with my right knee (bursitis) so same leg but haven't trained legs for 3 months maybe
> 
> been on test and deca 600/450 for 14 weeks now, in the last 6 weeks I'd say I've been waking up first thing and standing up it feels like all my muscles (calf muscles mainly but sometimes hips/quads/hamstrings are tight)kinda like after you get cramp you have to straighten your leg to stretch the muscle a bit, can be fairly painful for first few seconds, but then eases off and will only sometimes return after a spell of sitting down and hips then feel tight in the same way and I have to gently straighten myself up and sort myself out by gently stretching
> 
> any ideas? Is is simply the fact I'm still for ages and then come to move? Just seems strange that its happened now at age forty and never before, have you ever heard of deca causing anything like this? As it's first time I've ran it so long, it may be tied into my back but I think it effects both legs but I can't say I've take note of one being worse than the other, could be worse on the right but I wouldn't want to stake my life on it though
> 
> any input welcome


 When a joint is messed up, it causes dysfunction in other joints down the chain. A bad hip can lead to low back problems. So your joint problems are likely leading to other issues in other parts of your body.

The cramp/stiff muscle effect you are feeling is something i've experience on high dose tren in the past, make sure you hydrate, get enough electrolytes and do throw in some cardio if you can.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> HGH and Insulin
> 
> I have noticed that you advocate for high carbs medium prots low fats bulking macros.
> 
> How you would combine 6iu HGH pharma grade and Humalog/HumalinR for maximize IGF1.
> 
> I was thinking to do something like 1iu HGH+3iu HumalinR (Humalog) every 3h.
> 
> Like coach Trevor from EA advices.... What do you think?
> 
> 12w Test tren W HGH Slin... Damn this should be an hell of a cycle....


 Go with a standard protocol, you dont need anything fancy to get the benefit. No need to dose multiple times a day.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Hey, I had a question, how sensitive are peptides like hcg/hgh? I made a thread on this earlier but it appears that it got deleted for some reason.
> 
> When I reconstitute my peptides, even when I am careful, I see little bubbles form as the powder dissolves into the bac water.
> 
> Does this mean the potency is degraded? The solution itself is still clear, not cloudy. I am just worried because I keep reading online how fragile these hormones are.


 That is normal, they aren't that sensitive. Just keep away from direct light, heat and keep cool.


----------



## Devil

I want to add in superdrol 10mg for a month and ideally wanted to start asap.

Diet and supps are good. 20 mins HiTT cardio a date, 250mg tudca etc, liver values fine in recent bloods.

However, Xmas eve I will no doubt be drinking copious amounts of alcohol. And NYE I will be consuming MDMA.

I'm also running 125mg test 250mg deca.

Would you strongly advise waiting until Jan to start the SD? Or would those two nights not really have a huge negative impact overall, making sure I keep hydrated etc etc and not consuming any alcohol/Rec drugs at all otherwise.

Thanks @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey, Just thought I should update u and ask one more Q Please.
> 
> I didn't take the AI-Adex all last week, Still Felt dry skin, weakness in str, lack of motivation ect... No itchy nips yet either, However I'm starting to get headaches about 7 days later now and My weight went up 4.4lbs in a week and normally for the past 2 weeks it's been going down slowly cause of poor diet, so I'm assuming e2 is raising and holding bloat (it looks like it too). I'm going to check BP soon. I'm already on 15mg cia and 4 fish oils, but I think I need more for BP. I have Verpamil for BP 120mg pills, do u know how I can add that to help lower BP? I never used them before. Any other ways to lower BP? My Feet and wrists seem to be going "numbish" when I sleep and it's hard to pass out now.
> 
> I also wanted to ask about calories surplus. I always thought that the way calories for growth worked was "get in all ur calories, macros before sleep" and u will grow over night and the next day or 2. So Lets say my bulk was 5,500 cals, I ate 4800 of them and then it was time for sleep and I was full in the tank, then I set a alarm for 2-3 hours later....Wake up and eat another 300-400 cals and do the same again. Does that count towards the past days cals for growth or the coming forth day or does it not work that way and it's just non stop every 2-3 hours...?


 What is your BP averaging out on a daily basis? Can't give you a generic dose without know that.

I would count those calories for the last day. It doesn't really make a difference, if you aren't growing/getting stronger, up the calories (making sure training/rest isnt the problem)


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon or anyone who can answer it really.
> 
> So basically had highish hct .51 - 52 so donated myself last thursday, so that probably dropped it to around 48 49 but want to get it down a little again. So i was wondering when would be ok to donate again, 2 weeks??


 48-49 is fine. Wait until you can donate again and repeat. Keep it at 50 or under. You also dont want it too low.


----------



## drwae

Devil said:


> I want to add in superdrol 10mg for a month and ideally wanted to start asap.
> 
> Diet and supps are good. 20 mins HiTT cardio a date, 250mg tudca etc, liver values fine in recent bloods.
> 
> However, Xmas eve I will no doubt be drinking copious amounts of alcohol. And NYE I will be consuming MDMA.
> 
> I'm also running 125mg test 250mg deca.
> 
> Would you strongly advise waiting until Jan to start the SD? Or would those two nights not really have a huge negative impact overall, making sure I keep hydrated etc etc and not consuming any alcohol/Rec drugs at all otherwise.
> 
> Thanks @ElChapo


 can I come to your nye party mate lol


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> I want to add in superdrol 10mg for a month and ideally wanted to start asap.
> 
> Diet and supps are good. 20 mins HiTT cardio a date, 250mg tudca etc, liver values fine in recent bloods.
> 
> However, Xmas eve I will no doubt be drinking copious amounts of alcohol. And NYE I will be consuming MDMA.
> 
> I'm also running 125mg test 250mg deca.
> 
> Would you strongly advise waiting until Jan to start the SD? Or would those two nights not really have a huge negative impact overall, making sure I keep hydrated etc etc and not consuming any alcohol/Rec drugs at all otherwise.
> 
> Thanks @ElChapo


 I doubt there would be an impact, but i would just wait until after the holidays.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> 48-49 is fine. Wait until you can donate again and repeat. Keep it at 50 or under. You also dont want it too low.


 Thats in 3 months if i wait to go to a centre to donate, then id be back at high end again. I thought if i just donate myself to get it down to 46 46 then it gives me a bit more le way in the new year for possibly a test npp and anadrol cycle


----------



## Devil

drwae said:


> can I come to your nye party mate lol


 Feel free fella.

The only things I can promise are drugs, good music and 8/10+ girls ages 18-23


----------



## drwae

Devil said:


> Feel free fella.
> 
> The only things I can promise are drugs, good music and 8/10+ girls ages 18-23


 Sounds fu**ing sick, im probably just going to end up sitting at home with my girlfriend, although now you've mentioned MDMA maybe we'll partake. never tried it at home though, always took it out at a rave


----------



## superdrol

drwae said:


> Sounds fu**ing sick, im probably just going to end up sitting at home with my girlfriend, although now you've mentioned MDMA maybe we'll partake. never tried it at home though, always took it out at a rave


 No offence but your too young to have been to a proper rave lol  doing it at home with someone you fancy is awesome if you both do it


----------



## drwae

superdrol said:


> No offence but your too young to have been to a proper rave lol  doing it at home with someone you fancy is awesome if you both do it


 I don't just fancy her i actually love her, i fell in love with her the first time we took pills in a rave in the middle of a fu**ing forest

Reminds me of a bloke i met on a job i was doing a few months ago actually, he was telling me how he was on his 4th wife and this one wants to leave him as well, apparently with all his wives they fell in love with each other when they were taking mandy or dmt and once the infatuation wore off a few months later they all wanted to leave him for being a total c**t


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Is it safe to use a vial (opened ,with the plastic lid removed ), which has been left in a drawer for about a year?


----------



## Testdecadbol

@El Chapo just had full blood done. Everything g2g except thyroid.

Tsh is double the top end ref range and t4 is slightly low(nearly in range)

Im going to ask my doc to run more tests but is this something youve seen b4? Any ideas on how to address it? Can diet help?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is it safe to use a vial (opened ,with the plastic lid removed ), which has been left in a drawer for about a year?


 You mean with the rubber stopper still in tact? yes, 100%. Just swab the stopper with alcohol.


----------



## ElChapo

Testdecadbol said:


> @El Chapo just had full blood done. Everything g2g except thyroid.
> 
> Tsh is double the top end ref range and t4 is slightly low(nearly in range)
> 
> Im going to ask my doc to run more tests but is this something youve seen b4? Any ideas on how to address it? Can diet help?
> 
> Cheers


 What is the TSH level exactly? Diet won't change it.


----------



## Testdecadbol

ElChapo said:


> What is the TSH level exactly? Diet won't change it.


 Ref range was 0.2-4.2 and my result was 8.9 for tsh.

Ref range for free thyroxine was 12-22 and im 11.6

My tsh is going bat s**t crazy to get that up i guess. Im dieting now so tempted to self med t4 and t3 at about 100t4 and 50t3.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> That is normal, they aren't that sensitive. Just keep away from direct light, heat and keep cool.


 Thanks. So glad to read this. Was paranoid that I damaged my hcg because of the bubbles.


----------



## ElChapo

Testdecadbol said:


> Ref range was 0.2-4.2 and my result was 8.9 for tsh.
> 
> Ref range for free thyroxine was 12-22 and im 11.6
> 
> My tsh is going bat s**t crazy to get that up i guess. Im dieting now so tempted to self med t4 and t3 at about 100t4 and 50t3.


 you're ideal dose will likely be 100-150 mcg T4 and 5-15 mcg T3. ( some people do fine without T3)

Make sure you take it in the morning before food/supplements/coffee/tea and wait one hour before consuming the latter.

If you can't get doc to treat, i would self-medicate, no question.


----------



## Testdecadbol

ElChapo said:


> you're ideal dose will likely be 100-150 mcg T4 and 5-15 mcg T3. ( some people do fine without T3)
> 
> Make sure you take it in the morning before food/supplements/coffee/tea and wait one hour before consuming the latter.
> 
> If you can't get doc to treat, i would self-medicate, no question.


 Thanks mate.

While i have you, my hct was 50( top end normal) but rbc was quite high, about 50% above ref range. Is hct the main factor in blood viscosity?

Im booked in to give blood in feb.

Cholesterol also fuked lol.

In ur experience, how high have you taken test without bad lipids/bw?


----------



## ElChapo

Testdecadbol said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> While i have you, my hct was 50( top end normal) but rbc was quite high, about 50% above ref range. Is hct the main factor in blood viscosity?
> 
> Im booked in to give blood in feb.
> 
> Cholesterol also fuked lol.
> 
> In ur experience, how high have you taken test without bad lipids/bw?


 RBC will come down with blood donation. HCT AND HGB usually coincide. Donation has helped me manage both when elevated.

Once you pass the TRT threshold, lipids will begin to take a hit, and some guys even have a bad impact on lipids on TRT doses. There is a strong genetic basis to your body's sensitivity to androgenic effect on lipid. Dont sweat it too much as long as you have good lifestyle, limit your time on big cycles and do regular cardio.


----------



## feelinfine

Just reading through this thread and it is a wealth of knowledge. Just picking up a few minor things here and there which will make my life much easier in the future.

Out of curiosity, what is your history with aas? How and why did you start taking them, and what kind of cycles are you running currently?

If it is too personal to answer that is completely fine, I am just curious on your background because you are so helpful to so many of us on here. Thanks el chapo.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Would taking orals like winstrol with food reduce the effectiveness/potency? Is there any truth to taking them on an empty stomach can give stomach ulcer issues etc?


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> I'm not an EQ guy. Masteron adds some synergy to test/tren. It frees up testosterone and polishes the physique further. It can help mitigate some E2 and tren side effects.


 What dose ratios should I be looking at. I have read that many go with a 1 Test: 1 Tren : 1 Mast. Others like more test than Tren and MAst.

and some use less test but more tren + x mast.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Just reading through this thread and it is a wealth of knowledge. Just picking up a few minor things here and there which will make my life much easier in the future.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is your history with aas? How and why did you start taking them, and what kind of cycles are you running currently?
> 
> If it is too personal to answer that is completely fine, I am just curious on your background because you are so helpful to so many of us on here. Thanks el chapo.


 I've been into health and science from a very young age. Thus my carreer path. I really got into nutrition and then hormones after studying diets for wrestling in highschool.

I decided to experiment with AAS when my natural testosterone level began to decline (they used to be at top of the range naturally). Started with HRT and high test, then experimented a lot with doses and combos. I only used UGL briefly, i homebrewed very early into my AAS journey which really let me try a bunch of stuff and gave me access to everything.

Currently, i maintain my physique and strength with low doses. I like 150-300 mg test prop, sometimes throw in low dose tren for fun. I keep my strength at respectable levels and focus on my striking/grappling nowadays.


----------



## Bull Terrier

ElChapo - what is your opinion on blood flow restriction training?

Do you have any experience with it? Do you think it's worth incorporating into strength/hypertrophy programs for improved results?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Would taking orals like winstrol with food reduce the effectiveness/potency? Is there any truth to taking them on an empty stomach can give stomach ulcer issues etc?


 In my experience, i feel it more on an empty stomach.

I experiment as i know vitamin D is a steroid and absorption is greatly increased with food/fat consumption. I dont think this is the case with orals.

People can get stomach and GI upset sometimes from orals. I am 90% sure you will not develop ulcers.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> What dose ratios should I be looking at. I have read that many go with a 1 Test: 1 Tren : 1 Mast. Others like more test than Tren and MAst.
> 
> and some use less test but more tren + x mast.


 Depends on your goals, sensitivity to aromatization, etc.

Higher test will give more strength and mass but tren sides will typically be much stronger, and if you are gyno prone. The risk increases sharply. Some people do well with low test high tren and vice/versa.

If you are looking for more of a "aesthetics/physique division" body comp, you will be looking at less test, and more tren and mast. You could still do high test and trim down later, but you will be more watery typically on higher test. Not a big deal if you are in bulk mode and dont care. Others like to look lean and dry year round.

If you are looking for sheer mass for bodybuilding or pure strength for powerlifting, you want high test, high tren. Remember, sides are typically more intense when both are ran higher.

Some guys do really well with low dose tren, around 300 mg pw with high test. You need to experiment for yourself, but you have some guidance now on where you can start depending on your goals.

I always recommend starting low when adding tren, many guys have had to stop a cycle completely due to mental issues, severe lethargy/insomnia, and gyno from using tren. Get to know the compound before you go high.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> ElChapo - what is your opinion on blood flow restriction training?
> 
> Do you have any experience with it? Do you think it's worth incorporating into strength/hypertrophy programs for improved results?


 There is some data showing benefit. Never found it necessary or enticing enough to try it myself. Some guys love it though.


----------



## MarkyMark

@El Chapo

Somewhat of a stupid question here.

do orals build Lbm.

anavar and winni are always spouted as cutting orals to harden you up and retain muscle on a cut but will not not yeald much in the way of muscle if used for bulking.

anadrol and dbol are the go to for bulk but most will say near all weight will be water/glycogen retention and will be lost one orals are ceased. The main reason to use them is for strength and as a kick start to cycles.

another question, putting liver toxity to one side what is the more harsher AAS of anadrol and Tren? Also in terms of building Lbm on bulk (I'm going to presume Tren for both).

Cheers


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> Depends on your goals, sensitivity to aromatization, etc.
> 
> Higher test will give more strength and mass but tren sides will typically be much stronger, and if you are gyno prone. The risk increases sharply. Some people do well with low test high tren and vice/versa.
> 
> If you are looking for more of a "aesthetics/physique division" body comp, you will be looking at less test, and more tren and mast. You could still do high test and trim down later, but you will be more watery typically on higher test. Not a big deal if you are in bulk mode and dont care. Others like to look lean and dry year round.
> 
> If you are looking for sheer mass for bodybuilding or pure strength for powerlifting, you want high test, high tren. Remember, sides are typically more intense when both are ran higher.
> 
> Some guys do really well with low dose tren, around 300 mg pw with high test. You need to experiment for yourself, but you have some guidance now on where you can start depending on your goals.
> 
> I always recommend starting low when adding tren, many guys have had to stop a cycle completely due to mental issues, severe lethargy/insomnia, and gyno from using tren. Get to know the compound before you go high.


 Appreciate the guidance. Thank you!


----------



## PSevens2017

ghost.recon said:


> Looks like I didn't miss much


 Please ignore my copy/paste for above

@ghost.recon @El Chapo

my Mum has high blood pressure and is on the following: Amlodipine mesilate monohydrare 10mg daily. She said it's a salt inhibitor. GP said it's beta blockers next if these pills don't work. My Mums been taking for years and her BP is still 150. I've bought some hibiscus flowers for her. Any issue with her drinking a cup of H/cus tea a day whiie taking these meds?

I'm going to take her to Boots the chemist to check her BP tomorrow and then get her drinking the tea. Check again next week. Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> Please ignore my copy/paste for above
> 
> @ghost.recon @El Chapo
> 
> my Mum has high blood pressure and is on the following: Amlodipine mesilate monohydrare 10mg daily. She said it's a salt inhibitor. GP said it's beta blockers next if these pills don't work. My Mums been taking for years and her BP is still 150. I've bought some hibiscus flowers for her. Any issue with her drinking a cup of H/cus tea a day whiie taking these meds?
> 
> I'm going to take her to Boots the chemist to check her BP tomorrow and then get her drinking the tea. Check again next week. Thanks


 Should be fine, the effect of the tea is not overly potent.

Get her doing cardiovascular exercise, period. Is she overweight? or normal? If she is, weightloss will also bring down the BP for most people.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Somewhat of a stupid question here.
> 
> do orals build Lbm.
> 
> anavar and winni are always spouted as cutting orals to harden you up and retain muscle on a cut but will not not yeald much in the way of muscle if used for bulking.
> 
> anadrol and dbol are the go to for bulk but most will say near all weight will be water/glycogen retention and will be lost one orals are ceased. The main reason to use them is for strength and as a kick start to cycles.
> 
> another question, putting liver toxity to one side what is the more harsher AAS of anadrol and Tren? Also in terms of building Lbm on bulk (I'm going to presume Tren for both).
> 
> Cheers


 Orals can build tissue very well, and the strength increase will also facilitate the muscle building process. People don't typically run these compounds long enough to see them shine due to fears of liver toxicity or just following typical advise on duration.

Harsh on sides or health? Tren is harsher on the sides, i would give the title to anadrol if were talking about health.

Some people build muscle and strength very well on anadrol, i would experiment and combine them if you like both compounds. I cant say wether one will build more muscle than the other because everyone responds differently to each compound, but i might give it to anadrol.


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> Should be fine, the effect of the tea is not overly potent.
> 
> Get her doing cardiovascular exercise, period. Is she overweight? or normal? If she is, weightloss will also bring down the BP for most people.


 Her weight is pretty good considering she's 71. Think she's half a stone over her advised by GP weight. I'll speak to her about increasing her walking. Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> Her weight is pretty good considering she's 71. Think she's half a stone over her advised by GP weight. I'll speak to her about increasing her walking. Thank you


 Definitely, high BP will damage the kidneys, eyes, heart and eventually the brain. Mant people dont know about the vascular origins of certain types of dementias.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Except Test Tren W would you advise any other stack for lean growth?

Do you think that Test Deca W can a good alternative?


----------



## invisiblekid

ElChapo said:


> Orals can build tissue very well, and the strength increase will also facilitate the muscle building process. People don't typically run these compounds long enough to see them shine due to fears of liver toxicity or just following typical advise on duration.
> 
> Harsh on sides or health? Tren is harsher on the sides, i would give the title to anadrol if were talking about health.
> 
> Some people build muscle and strength very well on anadrol, i would experiment and combine them if you like both compounds. I cant say wether one will build more muscle than the other because everyone responds differently to each compound, but i might give it to anadrol.


 What kind of reasonable limits in terms of dose and length of cycle would you put on Anadrol before it becomes too detrimental to health? I'm planning 6 weeks at 50mg/75mg training days


----------



## Jordan08

Whats your take on Type 1 and 3 collagen supplements from joint and skin issues?. Are they absorbed optimally when taken orally or just another fad product. There are so many contradicting statements on their usage. Some says its better to stick to Vitamin C for skin issues rather than spending on collagen powders.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Except Test Tren W would you advise any other stack for lean growth?
> 
> Do you think that Test Deca W can a good alternative?


 Yeah deca isnt a bad alternative, you can play with the doses and add GH/SLIN if you are advanced.

Otherwise, that stack is extremely versatile for strength, aesthetics and lean tissue growth.


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> What kind of reasonable limits in terms of dose and length of cycle would you put on Anadrol before it becomes too detrimental to health? I'm planning 6 weeks at 50mg/75mg training days


 12 weeks max with TUDCA, but lord knows guys are running this stuff for longer. Andreas munzer styrofoam liver cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Whats your take on Type 1 and 3 collagen supplements from joint and skin issues?. Are they absorbed optimally when taken orally or just another fad product. There are so many contradicting statements on their usage. Some says its better to stick to Vitamin C for skin issues rather than spending on collagen powders.


 Surprisingly there is data showing it actually does work, it's one of those things i would experiment with and see if it works for you.


----------



## invisiblekid

ElChapo said:


> 12 weeks max with TUDCA, but lord knows guys are running this stuff for longer. Andreas munzer styrofoam liver cycle.


 Thanks buddy. Input appreciated as always. I'm running Support Max + additional 200mg TUDCA.

May extend it out to 8 weeks. See how I feel. So far I've had zero bloat, no lethargy and appetite is strong. Just big strength gains and look full as f**k!

Do you see liver damage as the main/only risk with cycling anadrol? Presumably all other health risks are minimised by keeping the cycle relatively short?


----------



## drwae

invisiblekid said:


> Thanks buddy. Input appreciated as always. I'm running Support Max + additional 200mg TUDCA.
> 
> May extend it out to 8 weeks. See how I feel. So far I've had zero bloat, no lathergy and appetite is strong. Just big strength gains and look full as f**k!


 I've run anadrol twice and found the lethargy and nausea sets in around week 3. That was on 100mg though


----------



## invisiblekid

drwae said:


> I've run anadrol twice and found the lethargy and nausea sets in around week 3. That was on 100mg though


 I've read similar from others, dude. Were you running any liver support?

I started on 1st Dec, so might start to see sides soon.


----------



## drwae

invisiblekid said:


> I've read similar from others, dude. Were you running any liver support?
> 
> I started on 1st Dec, so might start to see sides soon.


 No liver support


----------



## Deltz123

What's your opinion on upping doses throughout a cycle/blast?

Something like this:

week 1-6: test 600- deca 300-mast 200

week 7-12: test 600-deca 450-mast 400


----------



## ElChapo

invisiblekid said:


> Thanks buddy. Input appreciated as always. I'm running Support Max + additional 200mg TUDCA.
> 
> May extend it out to 8 weeks. See how I feel. So far I've had zero bloat, no lethargy and appetite is strong. Just big strength gains and look full as f**k!
> 
> Do you see liver damage as the main/only risk with cycling anadrol? Presumably all other health risks are minimised by keeping the cycle relatively short?


 It's the main risk, obviously want to watch out for high BP but that takes a very long time to do any damage unless it gets over 180/100.

The liver is a resilient organ and i tend to be more lax when it comes to orals than most guys(presuming you take liver support/limit time and dosage)


----------



## ElChapo

Deltz123 said:


> What's your opinion on upping doses throughout a cycle/blast?
> 
> Something like this:
> 
> week 1-6: test 600- deca 300-mast 200
> 
> week 7-12: test 600-deca 450-mast 400


 It won't make much difference, steroids kick in not because of "saturation levels" or maximum concentration but due to gene expression.

This means its not that you reach the full level in the blood stream when you feel it kick in, but that you've had the levels elevated long enough to begin changing your body chemistry.

You should always run the dose the same unless you see side effects or were being conservative and getting your feet wet with a new compound.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> It's the main risk, obviously want to watch out for high BP but that takes a very long time to do any damage unless it gets over 180/100.
> 
> The liver is a resilient organ and i tend to be more lax when it comes to orals than most guys(presuming you take liver support/limit time and dosage)


 When I ran drol at 50mg Ed a month back I ran it for 4 weeks to test the water. During this time I got bloods done twice and each time Alt and AST was only 5 to 10 points above upper range. Was running TUDCA at around 1000mg Ed. Oh I was also using accutane at 20mg ed also.

Liver kinda stabilised at this level and I assume if I used for longer would slowly increase.

Am I correct to say that when running orals, LFTs being a little over like mine were is perfectly fine and not really stressing the liver?

a lot of the time people use orals and are 2 or 3 times over upper limit!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> When I ran drol at 50mg Ed a month back I ran it for 4 weeks to test the water. During this time I got bloods done twice and each time Alt and AST was only 5 to 10 points above upper range. Was running TUDCA at around 1000mg Ed. Oh I was also using accutane at 20mg ed also.
> 
> Liver kinda stabilised at this level and I assume if I used for longer would slowly increase.
> 
> Am I correct to say that when running orals, LFTs being a little over like mine were is perfectly fine and not really stressing the liver?
> 
> a lot of the time people use orals and are 2 or 3 times over upper limit!


 Yeah that's fine, even tylenol can cause small increases, as well as intense exercise.


----------



## SD2017

ElChapo said:


> It won't make much difference, steroids kick in not because of "saturation levels" or maximum concentration but due to gene expression.
> 
> This means its not that you reach the full level in the blood stream when you feel it kick in, but that you've had the levels elevated long enough to begin changing your body chemistry.
> 
> You should always run the dose the same unless you see side effects or were being conservative and getting your feet wet with a new compound.


 Would you say that frontloading is a waste of time then? Or does it help to achieve a quicker genomic response?


----------



## ElChapo

SD2017 said:


> Would you say that frontloading is a waste of time then? Or does it help to achieve a quicker genomic response?


 You typically won't see any benefit from front loading. I recommend kickstart with orals or running short esters.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> You typically won't see any benefit from front loading. I recommend kickstart with orals or running short esters.


 If it's about gene expression why do short esters work faster than front loading long esters?


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> If it's about gene expression why do short esters work faster than front loading long esters?


 The spikes are higher and the release is faster.

If you look at the pharmacokinetics of long ester AAS, max concentration is reached very quickly. (steroidcalc.com)


----------



## Rockstar61811

@ElChapo I you took 1 single dose of anastrazole which I think has a half life of approx 48 hours how long would it be actively stopping T>E. I am looking to take a single 0.5mg dose with my TRT injection and try to work out how long it would be having a meaningful effect in my system for. I have heard that for some even 0.125mg has an effect still.


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on SARM's

ive always been of the belief that even anavar will trump all SARM's in terms of gains

but given their mild effect on lipid profile, BP and prostate
are they a viable addition to a cruise dose of test to help with cutting between blasts / overall muscle retention?


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar61811 said:


> @ElChapo I you took 1 single dose of anastrazole which I think has a half life of approx 48 hours how long would it be actively stopping T>E. I am looking to take a single 0.5mg dose with my TRT injection and try to work out how long it would be having a meaningful effect in my system for. I have heard that for some even 0.125mg has an effect still.


 It can work as long as a week. You can dose adex once per week.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on SARM's
> 
> ive always been of the belief that even anavar will trump all SARM's in terms of gains
> 
> but given their mild effect on lipid profile, BP and prostate
> are they a viable addition to a cruise dose of test to help with cutting between blasts / overall muscle retention?


 I havent been impressed yet, there isnt a lot of research and results to sway me and they are still suppressive to HPTA in some cases that ive seen.

I am with you with the idea that Anavar>SARMs, anyday.


----------



## ghost.recon

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Except Test Tren W would you advise any other stack for lean growth?
> 
> Do you think that Test Deca W can a good alternative?


 Primo


----------



## SlinMeister

ghost.recon said:


> Primo


 No Equipoise?

So we can rotate cycles between Tren+W and Primo.


----------



## jd

@ElChapo if I remember correctly there was a dose of tudca that could reverse some of the damage to the liver done by alcohol, I have tried reading back but couldn't find it, is it 1g of tudca a day? Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> @ElChapo if I remember correctly there was a dose of tudca that could reverse some of the damage to the liver done by alcohol, I have tried reading back but couldn't find it, is it 1g of tudca a day? Thanks in advance


 Yes


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> No Equipoise?
> 
> So we can rotate cycles between Tren+W and Primo.


 Ghost isn't a fan of nandrolone. I would pick nandrolone myself.


----------



## jd

ElChapo said:


> Yes


 Thanks elchapo I don't know I've f**ked my liver but I've been a very heavy drinker/alcoholic for around 15 years I'll take for 6 months and see where I am then as I don't dare get a liver function test atm


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> Thanks elchapo I don't know I've f**ked my liver but I've been a very heavy drinker/alcoholic for around 15 years I'll take for 6 months and see where I am then as I don't dare get a liver function test atm


 The liver is damn resilient, my great grand uncle passed in his late 80's drinking rum by the bottle all his life. Great genes of course, but the liver is exceptional and regenerating itself.


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Been blasting and cruising about 2 years now, religiously pinned 500iu of hcg twice a week. Ran out last week and struggled to get any more with it being christmas, only been a week or so and my nuts are already shrunk considerably and aching, if i can get some hcg by saturday and go back to pinning 1000iu a week do you think they'll return to normal and have i done any damage in regards to recovering when i eventually come off.


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Been blasting and cruising about 2 years now, religiously pinned 500iu of hcg twice a week. Ran out last week and struggled to get any more with it being christmas, only been a week or so and my nuts are already shrunk considerably and aching, if i can get some hcg by saturday and go back to pinning 1000iu a week do you think they'll return to normal and have i done any damage in regards to recovering when i eventually come off.


 You will be fine, think about guys who ran no hcg, and recovered after 3 months shutdown.


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

I know you like to have most of your calories from Carbs once Protein needs are met, which is exactly what I do.

Do you believe in having more cals on training days than rest days (or higher fat/lower carb on rest) ? Or do you prefer to keep cals/macros consistent regardless of training or rest day.

And how much importance do you place on nutrient timing vs just getting the cals in whenever (within reason)


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I know you like to have most of your calories from Carbs once Protein needs are met, which is exactly what I do.
> 
> Do you believe in having more cals on training days than rest days (or higher fat/lower carb on rest) ? Or do you prefer to keep cals/macros consistent regardless of training or rest day.
> 
> And how much importance do you place on nutrient timing vs just getting the cals in whenever (within reason)


 It won't make a difference in the long run, but some guys do well with higher calories/lower calories cycling and some like mixing up the macros.

I'm all about focusing on the most important basics and minimizing obsessive micromanagement.

I've tried calorie and macro cycling and regular surplus/deficit, the latter gave me more mental effort to put into my training and diet. The benefit would be minimal at best and i never saw any advantage.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> It won't make a difference in the long run, but some guys do well with higher calories/lower calories cycling and some like mixing up the macros.
> 
> I'm all about focusing on the most important basics and minimizing obsessive micromanagement.
> 
> I've tried calorie and macro cycling and regular surplus/deficit, the latter gave me more mental effort to put into my training and diet. The benefit would be minimal at best and i never saw any advantage.


 Thanks for the input, and that's exactly my thoughts on it too. The fewer things to have to stress/obsess about the better for me. Seems like everyone is doing low carb/high fat on rest days currently, and I believe this is due to maintaining insulin sensitivity....so I take it this isn't something that needs to be worried about? Even when consuming upwards of 400g-500g carbs in a calorie surplus?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thanks for the input, and that's exactly my thoughts on it too. The fewer things to have to stress/obsess about the better for me. Seems like everyone is doing low carb/high fat on rest days currently, and I believe this is due to maintaining insulin sensitivity....so I take it this isn't something that needs to be worried about? Even when consuming upwards of 400g-500g carbs in a calorie surplus?


 There's always gonna be a fad or flavor of the month diet, and there's a reason they go away.

Cycling macros will have no effect on insulin sensitivity.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Whats your take on Rapid Fat Loss or extreme calorie deficits.

Cant use dnp, got onset of PN in a week of 250mg so that's out the window.

Currently running quite minimal gear, 125mg test 250mg deca and throwing in 10mg superdrol for a month (which crushes my appetite) and 50mcg t3.

Also peps for healing.

Tempted to just go 1600-1800 calories a day, mainly protein 200g+ and rest whatever for a few weeks. With a higher carb refeed each Sat. 20 mins cardio daily always.

i want to do this so when I transition into a proper test cruise only of 150mg I can just maintain a good leanness, rather than trying to cut or bulk.

Then either cut more or bulk when I start my test tren var blast in April.

I have about 6-8lbs to lose I'd say, I already have abs, probably 12% bf.

If not I'll just slowly cut and carry on cutting onto the cruise whilst reducing t3 to 25mcg and upping cals a tad


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo thoughts on winstrol as a kicker starter or could I Run another oral for the first 4 weeks and through in winstrol in the last 6 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Whats your take on Rapid Fat Loss or extreme calorie deficits.
> 
> Cant use dnp, got onset of PN in a week of 250mg so that's out the window.
> 
> Currently running quite minimal gear, 125mg test 250mg deca and throwing in 10mg superdrol for a month (which crushes my appetite) and 50mcg t3.
> 
> Also peps for healing.
> 
> Tempted to just go 1600-1800 calories a day, mainly protein 200g+ and rest whatever for a few weeks. With a higher carb refeed each Sat. 20 mins cardio daily always.
> 
> i want to do this so when I transition into a proper test cruise only of 150mg I can just maintain a good leanness, rather than trying to cut or bulk.
> 
> Then either cut more or bulk when I start my test tren var blast in April.
> 
> I have about 6-8lbs to lose I'd say, I already have abs, probably 12% bf.
> 
> If not I'll just slowly cut and carry on cutting onto the cruise whilst reducing t3 to 25mcg and upping cals a tad


 Max deficit should be 30% daily if you want to maximize strength and muscle retention. Any higher risks strength and muscle loss. If you are 12%, a 30% caloric deficit should get you lean pretty quick, especially with a fat burner like EC stack or yohimbine thrown in the mix.

The drastic deficits may lead to a little extra fat loss, but the strength/muscle loss and stress usually offsets the little extra fat loss you get from it and the risk of rebound increases exponentially due to the effect on your leptin and other satiety hormones.

Should take you about 6 weeks to cut about 6 -8 lbs of pure fat at a good 30% deficit.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo thoughts on winstrol as a kicker starter or could I Run another oral for the first 4 weeks and through in winstrol in the last 6 weeks


 You should run it from the start if not through the whole cycle for best results.

Winstrol is my favorite oral, it's the best one if you compare all their properties and effects.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> You should run it from the start if not through the whole cycle for best results.
> 
> Winstrol is my favorite oral, it's the best one if you compare all their properties and effects.


 I tried a tons of orals in my journey and Winstrol Proviron Superdrol are the only orals i use.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> You should run it from the start if not through the whole cycle for best results.
> 
> Winstrol is my favorite oral, it's the best one if you compare all their properties and effects.


 Isn't winstrol quite hard on the joints? i just got myself some anavar actually


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> Isn't winstrol quite hard on the joints? i just got myself some anavar actually


 Not everyone experiences this problem.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo

thoughts on this blast 40mg d Bol for the first 4 weeks and 800mg for 20 weeks and last 6 weeks winstrol 50mg ed and mK677 20mg ed through out


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Also, a lot of guys notice big spikes in sex drive and then complain of a decrease as time goes on and are not taking into account that when you have sex or masturbate x 2 daily this will eventually lead to sexual exhaustion/*burn out via dopaminergic down regulation in the brain*


 Reading through this thread, you've some incredible knowledge @ElChapo

Can you elaborate on this quote above? how would this negatively affect person in bold?

Does higher the libido usually equate to higher the test levels or DHT levels in the body?

Do AAS/peptides alter DNA, genes, cells in the body? you mention things like gene expression,

which seems pretty interesting.

Lastly, do you believe one's sexual orientation is mainly down to genetics? like many do suggest or is partly environments/influence that

too plays a big role?


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> thoughts on this blast 40mg d Bol for the first 4 weeks and 800mg for 20 weeks and last 6 weeks winstrol 50mg ed and mK677 20mg ed through out


 I strong dislike dbol due to gyno risk and the bloat. I get better strength from winstrol and it sucks water out and makes the physique pop. Myself, i would run winstrol for 6 weeks, then again in the last 6 weeks. If you wanna run dbol and it treats you well, the above sounds good^, make sure you eat enough calories and push the weights as high as you can.


----------



## ElChapo

Starz said:


> Reading through this thread, you've some incredible knowledge @ElChapo
> 
> Can you elaborate on this quote above? how would this negatively affect person in bold?
> 
> Does higher the libido usually equate to higher the test levels or DHT levels in the body?
> 
> Do AAS/peptides alter DNA, genes, cells in the body? you mention things like gene expression,
> 
> which seems pretty interesting.
> 
> Lastly, do you believe one's sexual orientation is mainly down to genetics? like many do suggest or is partly environments/influence that
> 
> too plays a big role?


 The scientific term is "sexual exhaustion", when a male ejaculates, the prolactin dampens the sexual arousal response so that they cannot perform intercourse for some time (refractory period).

In the mice studies, they showed they could bypass this refractory period by exposing the sexual exhausted mouse to a new female. Even though they were in the refractory period, a novel female brought back the arousal response.

When men masturbate constantly, they are downregulating the dopaminergic system in the brain, especially when they constantly expose it repeatedly to 10/10 female porn stars, eventually the libido begins to diminish, and this is why sometimes guys get into weird fetishes to try to get excited again and get that dopamine back. Sometimes they have issues actually getting hard for their wives.

Test, DHT and androgens activate parts of the brain linked to sexual arousal and can facilitate it higher libido, which are closely linked to the dopaminergic system. As you many know, cabergoline is known for increase libido. When a senior has parkinson's disease ( loss of dopaminergic function), they are given dopaminergic drugs, and sometimes this leads to horny old men and women. (true story). High libido does not always mean high test or DHT though. Libido is a very complex topic.

There seems to be a genetic basis to sexual orientation, and a lot of it is also linked to exposure to testosterone and estrogen in the womb when the person is still in the fetal stage. Hormone exposure in the womb wires the brain permanently to be "masculine" or "feminine", this is why some guys are very feminine in appearance and behavior and some women are masculine and "butch". There also theories that bisexuals are exposed to higher than average testosterone levels in the womb. A sort of "hyper masculinity". This can also affect athletic ability, assertiveness, penis size and facial masculinity.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> You should run it from the start if not through the whole cycle for best results.
> 
> Winstrol is my favorite oral, it's the best one if you compare all their properties and effects.


 Would you choose Winstrol over D'bol in a gaining cycle (don't like the word bulking) along side Test and Deca, or only use it during a cutting cycle?


----------



## Hydra

ElChapo said:


> Oils will stay good for +5 years or more. As long as the stopper has not been penetrated previously, it will still be sterile. Tab/pills/dry meds will stay good for a decade. The expiration date is just there as a requirement. There will be no measurable difference in potency when stored in a cool, dry, place away from light exposure.
> 
> For blast & cruise, this depends on your baseline testosterone levels, physique goals, desire for kids, etc. A blast and cruise can be just healthy, if not more, than a cycle w/ PCT. PCT drugs are fairly toxic, nolvadex has been linked to neurotoxic sides and brain fog, a fairly common side effect in breast cancer patients. Clomid can cause permanent eye floaters.
> 
> Regardless, most people use PCT drugs without a problem. As long as your cruise dose is mild and/or close to "HRT" and all health parameters are kept in check, the health risk is quite small and can be beneficial if you are treating an issue of testosterone deficiency which can lead to metabolic syndrome, fatigue, weaker bones, depression, etc. If fertility is a concern, HCG @ 500-1,000 IU per week will perserve fertility and testicular volume.
> 
> Personally, i blast/cruise. I don't run HCG as i have no plan on having kids and testicular atrophy is minor for me even on tren. I have reached my lifetime physique goals so i have no reason to blast anymore. The way i see it, if i can keep my androgen levels at optimal levels for a benefit in work performance, cognition, sex, and sports, i will do it. One of the best decisions i ever made was to blast and cruise. Again, this is a personal decision and not one to be taken lightly. The improved energy and focus in work alone was enough to make it all worth it. Pinning with a 30 g 5/16th inch slin pin is literally painless, i don't feel a thing and look forward to pinning. I have a lifetime supply of testosterone enanthate raws, so i'm covered on that end. My doctor knows and supports my use and helps me keep track of everything. I can't deny that i am blessed.


 doesn't blasting and cruising for a long period of time cause your receptors to down regulate?


----------



## superdrol

UK2USA said:


> Would you choose Winstrol over D'bol in a gaining cycle (don't like the word bulking) along side Test and Deca, or only use it during a cutting cycle?


 I can tell you it's a resounding yes from his previous posts bud [IMG alt=":thumbup1:" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=//content.invisioncic.com/r270564/emoticons/default_thumbup1.gif&key=2380be2dc4cffad30149dafeb491cb16434c82377baeabb98b91821c73c539db[/IMG]


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

Why can't I get a full erection without cialis? no cialis = only 50% hard, I can bend it etc.  so I take cialis mon/wed/fri

Never had any issues when I was on test/deca 600/600

now im on test 250 and i was on tren a couple of weeks ago but since stopped (so I still have some floating around, and I had the same issues when I was on tren)

Could it still be prolactin?

my e2 was in range on 0.5 adex eod with the 600 test so since going down to 250 ive cut it down to 0.25 adex eod


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> Would you choose Winstrol over D'bol in a gaining cycle (don't like the word bulking) along side Test and Deca, or only use it during a cutting cycle?


 It's good for everything, it will increase muscle and strength. Its definitely not just for cutting.


----------



## ElChapo

Hydra said:


> doesn't blasting and cruising for a long period of time cause your receptors to down regulate?


 No, if this were true, mr olympias would not be as big as they are. It's a myth.

The biggest guys blast and cruise, period.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> Myself, i would run winstrol for 6 weeks, then again in the last 6 weeks.


 At what dosages and frequency @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Why can't I get a full erection without cialis? no cialis = only 50% hard, I can bend it etc.  so I take cialis mon/wed/fri
> 
> Never had any issues when I was on test/deca 600/600
> 
> now im on test 250 and i was on tren a couple of weeks ago but since stopped (so I still have some floating around, and I had the same issues when I was on tren)
> 
> Could it still be prolactin?
> 
> my e2 was in range on 0.5 adex eod with the 600 test so since going down to 250 ive cut it down to 0.25 adex eod


 Your body might still be balancing itself out. Tren has some wonky effects on the brain, and 19 nors have been showing to affect neurotransmitters in the brain.

Give it a little more time and keep using the cialis for now, it will help your regain function by improving circulatiom down there.

Have you ran 250 mg test e before?


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> At what dosages and frequency @ElChapo


 50 mg daily is a good dose, 100 mg if you are advanced. I suggest tudca with the 100 mg.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> It's good for everything, it will increase muscle and strength. Its definitely not just for cutting.


 I have been using 20mgs of D'bol pre-workout for the past 4 weeks. But, I only workout every other day as I need the days in between to recover (not a kid any more). So, I only use the D'bol every other day, and not every day. I figured it would be less toxic this way, could be used a little longer, and since it has such a short half-life, not sure the other benefits are worth it for an every day schedule. Thoughts please.

Having said that, if I switch to Winstrol at the tail end of my test and deca cycle, would every other day be okay, or should I use it every day anyway and not just as a pre-workout?

Regards.

PS: still haven't gotten round to doing the raw data thing with my 23 and me results, but hopefully in the new year. Very interested in what I can learn that will help me in my quest for some size and strength gains.


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I have been using 20mgs of D'bol pre-workout for the past 4 weeks. But, I only workout every other day as I need the days in between to recover (not a kid any more). So, I only use the D'bol every other day, and not every day. I figured it would be less toxic this way, could be used a little longer, and since it has such a short half-life, not sure the other benefits are worth it for an every day schedule. Thoughts please.
> 
> Having said that, if I switch to Winstrol at the tail end of my test and deca cycle, would every other day be okay, or should I use it every day anyway and not just as a pre-workout?
> 
> Regards.
> 
> PS: still haven't gotten round to doing the raw data thing with my 23 and me results, but hopefully in the new year. Very interested in what I can learn that will help me in my quest for some size and strength gains.


 Don't forget that your muscle grow on rest days, not training days. The anabolic response is even more important when your muscle is regenerating. I would *dose daily,* even on non-training days. This is when actual muscle growth is occuring. Recovery is as important as training is.

Daily dosing is optimal for oral AAS. You grow the most when you are resting.

23andme won't tell you much about how you should train, but it does give interesting insights into your health and other interesting facts about yourself.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> Don't forget that your muscle grow on rest days, not training days. The anabolic response is even more important when your muscle is regenerating. I would *dose daily,* even on non-training days. This is when actual muscle growth is occuring. Recovery is as important as training is.
> 
> Daily dosing is optimal for oral AAS. You grow the most when you are resting.
> 
> 23andme won't tell you much about how you should train, but it does give interesting insights into your health and other interesting facts about yourself.


 Thank you. I will follow your e.d. dosing advice.

One more quick question. I am thinking of using cialis for blood pressure reasons. My boy is working okay - touch wood - no pun intended. I am guessing using it merely for BP reasons would require smaller doses and less frequent dosing, what protocol do you advise?


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> Thank you. I will follow your e.d. dosing advice.
> 
> One more quick question. I am thinking of using cialis for blood pressure reasons. My boy is working okay - touch wood - no pun intended. I am guessing using it merely for BP reasons would require smaller doses and less frequent dosing, what protocol do you advise?


 It will not affect BP unless dosed pretty high, like 10-20 mg daily. Some people respond more than others.

A friend of mine was popping 10 mg daily and went hypotensive.

Going that high will come with a higher risk of side effects like headache and sinus congestion.


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

Hey,

It's been nearly 3 weeks on no AI. I still have been injecting 2ml of test e3d. I was using SG test e 300 for the 2ml, but since I figured it was taking so long I switched to a mix of 1ml from SG and 1ml from TM 250 test e. I dropped all other compounds though. Today is the first day I feel that my nips are slighty itchy feeling. Nothing crazy bad, but noticeable. I've also noticed over the past weeks that my tiredness has faded a lot and I've been getting slight acne even on accutane, meaning e2 is going up for sure and that my tendons/joints do feel better. Not as good as before, but improved for sure. My str is still pretty sad though, but I'm going to have to work it back up.

I was thinking of taking ralox for sat/sun to prevent the itchy nips and removed the feeling and chances of gyno if that is how it works, can u confirm? Should I do 60 or 120 ED to prevent the itchy nips and cure them while e2 is still fairly high in the system?

Is it okay to take ralox and adex at the same time or no? I was going to start adex on M-W-F .5 EOD on 1-1.2g test mixture and roll with that for a while and adjust.

PS: I found out Plasma centers give u your BP and Hemo for free. As long as u don't donate the plasma, then they won't check ur blood for possibly lifetime deferal and u can keep coming back anytime to check the above results which is great and saves some blood work really. Mine was 44 after donating 4 pints in the past 8.5 weeks.

I also have another question. Somewhat after 6 weeks when the tren (not taking it anymore), finally peaked at 1.2g in my blood, I had the issue of I can't sleep. I feel super super tired and heavy eyes, but when I lay down I just can't sleep. I sit for hours and it's been like this non stop. I don't know what else it could be. My hemo is 44, my bp is 139/78 even on all the gear thats slowly leaving my blood. Any tips or dosages of certain drugs that can help till the tren leaves IF THAT IS the case? I never had this issue on 600mg-800mg of the stuff...

Also, Since my e2 has been rising. I've been getting these MEGA pumps when I workout. Especially in my forearms. After I do lat pull downs on back day, my forearm becomes rock hard and tight. I mean it's so tight that it literally hurts and I have to sit down and wait for 5 minutes and walk around to get my mind off it. It can't be my the bp or hemo I listed above which are good, what is it from? I am more bloated than usual for sure and I intake high sodium diet, but what are ur thoughts? Is it from the crazy amount of gear still in my blood?


----------



## Devil

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey,
> 
> It's been nearly 3 weeks on no AI. I still have been injecting 2ml of test e3d. I was using SG test e 300 for the 2ml, but since I figured it was taking so long I switched to a mix of 1ml from SG and 1ml from TM 250 test e. I dropped all other compounds though. Today is the first day I feel that my nips are slighty itchy feeling. Nothing crazy bad, but noticeable. I've also noticed over the past weeks that my tiredness has faded a lot and I've been getting slight acne even on accutane, meaning e2 is going up for sure and that my tendons/joints do feel better. Not as good as before, but improved for sure. My str is still pretty sad though, but I'm going to have to work it back up.
> 
> I was thinking of taking ralox for sat/sun to prevent the itchy nips and removed the feeling and chances of gyno if that is how it works, can u confirm? Should I do 60 or 120 ED to prevent the itchy nips and cure them while e2 is still fairly high in the system?
> 
> Is it okay to take ralox and adex at the same time or no? I was going to start adex on M-W-F .5 EOD on 1-1.2g test mixture and roll with that for a while and adjust.
> 
> PS: I found out Plasma centers give u your BP and Hemo for free. As long as u don't donate the plasma, then they won't check ur blood for possibly lifetime deferal and u can keep coming back anytime to check the above results which is great and saves some blood work really. Mine was 44 after donating 4 pints in the past 8.5 weeks.
> 
> I also have another question. Somewhat after 6 weeks when the tren (not taking it anymore), finally peaked at 1.2g in my blood, I had the issue of I can't sleep. I feel super super tired and heavy eyes, but when I lay down I just can't sleep. I sit for hours and it's been like this non stop. I don't know what else it could be. My hemo is 44, my bp is 139/78 even on all the gear thats slowly leaving my blood. Any tips or dosages of certain drugs that can help till the tren leaves IF THAT IS the case? I never had this issue on 600mg-800mg of the stuff...
> 
> Also, Since my e2 has been rising. I've been getting these MEGA pumps when I workout. Especially in my forearms. After I do lat pull downs on back day, my forearm becomes rock hard and tight. I mean it's so tight that it literally hurts and I have to sit down and wait for 5 minutes and walk around to get my mind off it. It can't be my the bp or hemo I listed above which are good, what is it from? I am more bloated than usual for sure and I intake high sodium diet, but what are ur thoughts? Is it from the crazy amount of gear still in my blood?


 So you're back with more issues after mutliating yourself to drain blood.

Mate just come off all gear except a cruise of 150-250mg test for a few months and sort your body out FFS. Let everything reset and get back to normal.


----------



## mmichael

Devil said:


> So you're back with more issues after mutliating yourself to drain blood.
> 
> Mate just come off all gear except a cruise of 150-250mg test for a few months and sort your body out FFS. Let everything reset and get back to normal.


 Actually considering my hemo is 44, Healthy great range... AFTER 4 PINTS in a short period, I'd say that I did a good job with that my friend, so lets no discuss that topic otherwise.

I am off all gear but test, but I have to wait out the time for eq and tren high dosage to get out of my blood and I'm aiming to do what u say, except I cruise on 500 at least..


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey,
> 
> It's been nearly 3 weeks on no AI. I still have been injecting 2ml of test e3d. I was using SG test e 300 for the 2ml, but since I figured it was taking so long I switched to a mix of 1ml from SG and 1ml from TM 250 test e. I dropped all other compounds though. Today is the first day I feel that my nips are slighty itchy feeling. Nothing crazy bad, but noticeable. I've also noticed over the past weeks that my tiredness has faded a lot and I've been getting slight acne even on accutane, meaning e2 is going up for sure and that my tendons/joints do feel better. Not as good as before, but improved for sure. My str is still pretty sad though, but I'm going to have to work it back up.
> 
> I was thinking of taking ralox for sat/sun to prevent the itchy nips and removed the feeling and chances of gyno if that is how it works, can u confirm? Should I do 60 or 120 ED to prevent the itchy nips and cure them while e2 is still fairly high in the system?
> 
> Is it okay to take ralox and adex at the same time or no? I was going to start adex on M-W-F .5 EOD on 1-1.2g test mixture and roll with that for a while and adjust.
> 
> PS: I found out Plasma centers give u your BP and Hemo for free. As long as u don't donate the plasma, then they won't check ur blood for possibly lifetime deferal and u can keep coming back anytime to check the above results which is great and saves some blood work really. Mine was 44 after donating 4 pints in the past 8.5 weeks.
> 
> I also have another question. Somewhat after 6 weeks when the tren (not taking it anymore), finally peaked at 1.2g in my blood, I had the issue of I can't sleep. I feel super super tired and heavy eyes, but when I lay down I just can't sleep. I sit for hours and it's been like this non stop. I don't know what else it could be. My hemo is 44, my bp is 139/78 even on all the gear thats slowly leaving my blood. Any tips or dosages of certain drugs that can help till the tren leaves IF THAT IS the case? I never had this issue on 600mg-800mg of the stuff...
> 
> Also, Since my e2 has been rising. I've been getting these MEGA pumps when I workout. Especially in my forearms. After I do lat pull downs on back day, my forearm becomes rock hard and tight. I mean it's so tight that it literally hurts and I have to sit down and wait for 5 minutes and walk around to get my mind off it. It can't be my the bp or hemo I listed above which are good, what is it from? I am more bloated than usual for sure and I intake high sodium diet, but what are ur thoughts? Is it from the crazy amount of gear still in my blood?


 Insomnia likely from tren, you can use ambien, or another insomnia medication. Melatonin works for some people.

Ralox can be taken with adex without any issue.

Pumps are also likely from the high dose of AAS in your blood stream.


----------



## SD2017

Have a few questions if you don't mind mate 

1. Going to be cruising before my next blast in a couple of months. I was thinking 600 Test E 300 Tren E and 50mg winstrol. With bulking, would it be worth running test at that dosage, or just keep it at 300 for the peak igf 1 boost?

2. You posted about joint pain from winstrol potentially being linked to sub optimal vitamin d levels, but is their any truth to this? "Rather, stanozolol as a DHT derivative can selectively compete with progesterone and other natural and synthetic progestins (nandrolone) for progestin receptors; yielding a reduction in progesterone mediated anti-inflammatory processes and presenting patients with a perception of increased joint discomfort." It was from Wikipedia so no citation.

3. The last time I used tren, I got a flare up of gyno even on a low dose with estrogen in range. It went away on its own though after dropping the tren. Could it be progesterone mediated? And would you say 30mg ralox would be sufficient as a preventative tool?

4. I've read that dbol can lead to a boost in igf, is this just because it is highly estrogenic? And would there be a synergistic effect running it with tren, as tren increases sensitivity of muscle cells to igf or would the test have this covered?

Thanks


----------



## mmichael

ElChapo said:


> Insomnia likely from tren, you can use ambien, or another insomnia medication. Melatonin works for some people.
> 
> Ralox can be taken with adex without any issue.
> 
> Pumps are also likely from the high dose of AAS in your blood stream.


 Is there anything that is not prescription based that helps aid sleep or put you out for the night and is POWERFUL? I had benadryl 2 tabs, but I'm not sure if thats okay to take each day and not sure if it will work.

How is melatonin used and at what dosage is it effective?

I've been keeping up with my diet, is growth still good even with lack or low sleep?

How would u compare proteins from a carb source vs a meat souce? Can u mix them together if u wanted a total 200g at the end of the day or aim for only 200g meat source for muscle growth?

Thanks!!


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Which esters you prefer between TrenE and TrenA?

I noticed that on En ester i seem fuller less leaner, but leaner and less fuller on TrenA.... it's just my impression?

What about mixing esters?

Bad question now:

What do you think about DNP+Lantus? How it can be useful for?

Lots of people as soon as they read DNP they get scared.... i know you are wiser 

P.S. Test Tren W is a super wise stack for cut bulk recomp.....


----------



## woolymaggot

Melatonin works at treat for me. I take 3mg prolonged release with ketotifen every night. Experiment with the dose. Some take 0.3mg, some take 10mg.

Whether it combats tren insomnia......


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

Sorry if this has already been asked.... if doing a DNP run of 14 days...as a mini cut before going into a bulk from a leaner start point..running a 30% calorie deficit. What should calorie intake be for the following 5 days while filling back up glycogen.

Is 5 days post cycle when you'll see the end result of the DNP run...and could you then go straight into a surplus to start gaining?


----------



## MrBishi

woolymaggot said:


> Melatonin works at treat for me. I take 3mg prolonged release with ketotifen every night. Experiment with the dose. Some take 0.3mg, some take 10mg.
> 
> Whether it combats tren insomnia......


 I got some other day, 10mg knocked me out awesome sleep. But felt screwed the next morning. Trensomnia didn't rear it's head though.

Took 5mg last two nights and Trensomnia was out with revenge, still felt groggy in the morning and struggled to get up before 9. Usually I'm up at 6...


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Sorry if this has already been asked.... if doing a DNP run of 14 days...as a mini cut before going into a bulk from a leaner start point..running a 30% calorie deficit. What should calorie intake be for the following 5 days while filling back up glycogen.
> 
> Is 5 days post cycle when you'll see the end result of the DNP run...and could you then go straight into a surplus to start gaining?


 lbs of lean body mass x 1.5 - 3g carbs = Full glycogen stores.

Glycogen comes from carbs, so you want a carb heavy refeed. Calculate your new maintenance, and aim for 1.5-3 grams of carbs per pound of lean body mass.

I highly recommend you stay at maintenance for 1-2 weeks while your body resets it's leptin/satiety hormone/thyroid/metabolism. You will most likely continue to drop the pounds as you refeed due to the decrease in cortisol from breaking the diet which makes you drop all the water being held where your fat used to be.

You should see all the water retention drop by 1-2 weeks post-DNP and diet.

If you want to read more about diet induced water retention and dropping that water, this link goes into it further:

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

Thank you for the info mate, very much appreciated.

Another question if you don't mind. I've been blasting and cruising for some time now, and due to competing I've been running fairly decent dosages most of 2017.

Stupidly, I've never had bloodwork but decided that it's better late than never. I've been cruising on 200mg Test for 10 weeks and have my blood tests ready to take and send off.

I'm eager to get bloods to see if relevant health markers are in check so that I can get back on cycle. Will I be ok to do bloods while running DNP or will this give skewed readings for the health markers I need to look at?

edit; if I were to take blood tomorrow I would have 4 days DNP (4 x 250mg) in my system.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thank you for the info mate, very much appreciated.
> 
> Another question if you don't mind. I've been blasting and cruising for some time now, and due to competing I've been running fairly decent dosages most of 2017.
> 
> Stupidly, I've never had bloodwork but decided that it's better late than never. I've been cruising on 200mg Test for 10 weeks and have my blood tests ready to take and send off.
> 
> I'm eager to get bloods to see if relevant health markers are in check so that I can get back on cycle. Will I be ok to do bloods while running DNP or will this give skewed readings for the health markers I need to look at?
> 
> edit; if I were to take blood tomorrow I would have 4 days DNP (4 x 250mg) in my system.


 Remember, blood work will not show you the long term damage the AAS can cause to your circulatory system. Calcification and hardening of the arteries is the biggest concern.

DNP might throw off liver function, thyroid function, not sure what else honestly.


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo is 8 weeks of d bol 40mg a day to much for to long?


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> Remember, blood work will not show you the long term damage the AAS can cause to your circulatory system. Calcification and hardening of the arteries is the biggest concern.
> 
> DNP might throw off liver function, thyroid function, not sure what else honestly.


 ElChapo - Hello brother. Thanks for all the useful info.

I have been b&c for 2 years. I am pretty much done with it. I'm 39 and pretty fit, I'm not big but lean and athletical. I have high high history of heart disease in family and I wish to stop aas, and am currently cruising at 150mg per week test e. My question is can I still do very slow bulks and cuts on 150mg test. I wish to stay on trt for about a year. In the meantime will it help to supplement with anything to help get my natural test started whilst cruising eg hcg zinc .

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo is 8 weeks of d bol 40mg a day to much for to long?


 In my opinion, no.

Even less so if taking UDCA/TUDCA.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> ElChapo - Hello brother. Thanks for all the useful info.
> 
> I have been b&c for 2 years. I am pretty much done with it. I'm 39 and pretty fit, I'm not big but lean and athletical. I have high high history of heart disease in family and I wish to stop aas, and am currently cruising at 150mg per week test e. My question is can I still do very slow bulks and cuts on 150mg test. I wish to stay on trt for about a year. In the meantime will it help to supplement with anything to help get my natural test started whilst cruising eg hcg zinc .
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 I would not be too optimistic in getting back good endogenous testosterone levels.

After 2 years of blast and cruise and at your age, you would be lucky to get mid range total t. You can't even be sure if your levels were optimal before you started.

I would go for the scally power PCT+HMG. It's your best best bet.

Right now you should be running HCG, but you might be better off staying on TRT. It's worth a shot though.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> I would not be too optimistic in getting back good endogenous testosterone levels.
> 
> After 2 years of blast and cruise and at your age, you would be lucky to get mid range total t. You can't even be sure if your levels were optimal before you started.
> 
> I would go for the scally power PCT+HMG. It's your best best bet.
> 
> Right now you should be running HCG, but you might be better off staying on TRT. It's worth a shot though.


 Thanks for the reply brother, I'm struggling to decide whether to stay on trt, when I read something negative about impact on health I think come off bur then I read a lot of good things about it especially in USA about how it can actually benefit a man's health and I think stay on. I am done with kids so that's not a problem, in UK trt is a lot less then states and we are behind.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo few questions on HMG

Does HMG contain ACTUAL FSH and LH (so in other words would show elevated FSH and LH on a blood test) - or is it an analog for both LH and FSH (just like HCG is for LH)?

Rather than reconstructing the powder in vial and shooting thereafter 3 times a week, it would be more beneficial for me if i was to mix 1 weeks of HMG doses into 1 vial with BAC water and then shoot a third of the contents 3 times a week there after. do you know if once HMG is reconstructed and stored in the fridge (like HcG) does the concentration start to quickly diminish? if this is the case i would want to instead shoot after reconstruction each time as HMG is not cheap and i would want to get the full dose, however it would be preferred to do as mentioned above.

I have not done a sperm analysis however having been on for more than a year i am going to say that its likely to be low with bad motility. from reading studies it takes approx 3 months for sperm to "mature" when starting HMG protocol. Im a little confused how sperm will mature if one keeps ejaculating daily?

So i am going to not come off AAS but instead run HMG and HCG (i run hcg throughout cycle already) for 3 months before trying for a baby with my partner rather than coming off PCT then going back on after. i apprichate its not the best practice however i have enough HMG to see me though many monhs after the inital 3 month "maturity" stage.

running hmg M, W, F and HCG 1000ui 2 x per week - do you forsee any issues with sperm count and motility reaching a normal level for sucessful fertility? based on studies i have read it appears there is a very good chance despite still running synthetic testosterone throughout.

On a side note i had my echocardiogram last week. conclusion "*Mildly dilated LV chamber (normal for an athletic subject) with no LVH or RWMA documented. Preserved global systolic function. Trivial MR. MildTR. Preserved RV systolic function.*"

i was told that MR and TR was very commonly found in 70% or more and nothing to worry about. no LVH or RWMA and my doc was very happy and said i have a good functioning heart.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> I strong dislike dbol due to gyno risk and the bloat. I get better strength from winstrol and it sucks water out and makes the physique pop. Myself, i would run winstrol for 6 weeks, then again in the last 6 weeks. If you wanna run dbol and it treats you well, the above sounds good^, make sure you eat enough calories and push the weights as high as you can.


 So you blast for 16 weeks?

6w Test tren W

4w Test Tren (don't you add anything here? Masteron, Tbol,....)

6w Test Tren W

For how much time usually you cruise?

Ofc this is what you do... So it won't apply to every but... It's interesting how advanced people do things...


----------



## SlinMeister

woolymaggot said:


> Melatonin works at treat for me. I take 3mg prolonged release with ketotifen every night. Experiment with the dose. Some take 0.3mg, some take 10mg.
> 
> Whether it combats tren insomnia......


 That's a wonderful idea! Ketotifene+Melatonin!


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Thanks for the reply brother, I'm struggling to decide whether to stay on trt, when I read something negative about impact on health I think come off bur then I read a lot of good things about it especially in USA about how it can actually benefit a man's health and I think stay on. I am done with kids so that's not a problem, in UK trt is a lot less then states and we are behind.


 TRT has nothing but health benefits when done correctly. Optimal testosterone levels protect against almost all diseases in one way or another.

Low test is one of the causes of many of the things that ruin quality of life for many elderly people and young men suffering from low T.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo few questions on HMG
> 
> Does HMG contain ACTUAL FSH and LH (so in other words would show elevated FSH and LH on a blood test) - or is it an analog for both LH and FSH (just like HCG is for LH)?
> 
> Rather than reconstructing the powder in vial and shooting thereafter 3 times a week, it would be more beneficial for me if i was to mix 1 weeks of HMG doses into 1 vial with BAC water and then shoot a third of the contents 3 times a week there after. do you know if once HMG is reconstructed and stored in the fridge (like HcG) does the concentration start to quickly diminish? if this is the case i would want to instead shoot after reconstruction each time as HMG is not cheap and i would want to get the full dose, however it would be preferred to do as mentioned above.
> 
> I have not done a sperm analysis however having been on for more than a year i am going to say that its likely to be low with bad motility. from reading studies it takes approx 3 months for sperm to "mature" when starting HMG protocol. Im a little confused how sperm will mature if one keeps ejaculating daily?
> 
> So i am going to not come off AAS but instead run HMG and HCG (i run hcg throughout cycle already) for 3 months before trying for a baby with my partner rather than coming off PCT then going back on after. i apprichate its not the best practice however i have enough HMG to see me though many monhs after the inital 3 month "maturity" stage.
> 
> running hmg M, W, F and HCG 1000ui 2 x per week - do you forsee any issues with sperm count and motility reaching a normal level for sucessful fertility? based on studies i have read it appears there is a very good chance despite still running synthetic testosterone throughout.
> 
> On a side note i had my echocardiogram last week. conclusion "*Mildly dilated LV chamber (normal for an athletic subject) with no LVH or RWMA documented. Preserved global systolic function. Trivial MR. MildTR. Preserved RV systolic function.*"
> 
> i was told that MR and TR was very commonly found in 70% or more and nothing to worry about. no LVH or RWMA and my doc was very happy and said i have a good functioning heart.


 HMG is actual FSH/LH, the good stuff, no anaologue.

It's actually not a good idea to ejaculate daily, you should be timing ejaculation with your partners most fertile days to maximize sperm quality and fertility.

The heart looks good, just keep some cardio in there.

Cant say wether the protocol will work or not, but avoid tren/deca/trest and sticking to test only is a good idea.

You should have some chance, but its going to come down to genetics and baseline fertility, etc. i got my SO pregnant while running tren, so im crossing my fingers for you.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> So you blast for 16 weeks?
> 
> 6w Test tren W
> 
> 4w Test Tren (don't you add anything here? Masteron, Tbol,....)
> 
> 6w Test Tren W
> 
> For how much time usually you cruise?
> 
> Ofc this is what you do... So it won't apply to every but... It's interesting how advanced people do things...


 No, i'm saying in regards to the question, that's what i would do.

Depends on my goals (strength/cutting/etc), when i was going for strength, i would extend blasts past 12 weeks if i was riding the momentum and still getting linear progression until i hit my goal. For cutting, usually 12 weeks, sometimes longer. Everything is context dependent, what compounds im running, how i feel, what my goals are, etc.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> HMG is actual FSH/LH, the good stuff, no anaologue.
> 
> It's actually not a good idea to ejaculate daily, you should be timing ejaculation with your partners most fertile days to maximize sperm quality and fertility.
> 
> The heart looks good, just keep some cardio in there.
> 
> Cant say wether the protocol will work or not, but avoid tren/deca/trest and sticking to test only is a good idea.
> 
> You should have some chance, but its going to come down to genetics and baseline fertility, etc. i got my SO pregnant while running tren, so im crossing my fingers for you.


 So confirm, when using HMG, if I was to get a blood test for LH and FSH they will show to be present, in range, or out if dosing to much (juat like synthetic testosterone).

I will be getting a sperm analysis before and during the protocol so I have something to compare to and see how well its working.

When you say it will come down to genetics and baseline fertility are you talking about the state of my fertility if I never touched AAS? In terms of genetics on both sides of my family there has never been issues with trying to conceive.

I will only use test like you have said. If T, prog, prolactin, E2, LH and Fsh are all in range when using the protocol I assume there is a very good chance that my sperm count and motility will be "healthy" and suitable for fertility?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> So confirm, when using HMG, if I was to get a blood test for LH and FSH they will show to be present, in range, or out if dosing to much (juat like synthetic testosterone).
> 
> I will be getting a sperm analysis before and during the protocol so I have something to compare to and see how well its working.
> 
> When you say it will come down to genetics and baseline fertility are you talking about the state of my fertility if I never touched AAS? In terms of genetics on both sides of my family there has never been issues with trying to conceive.
> 
> I will only use test like you have said. If T, prog, prolactin, E2, LH and Fsh are all in range when using the protocol I assume there is a very good chance that my sperm count and motility will be "healthy" and suitable for fertility?


 Yeah, it would pop as LH amd FSH in blood work depending on dose and timing.

Baseline fertility; before AAS as well as your genetic sensitivity to AAS induced infertility/sterility. Some guys' bodies are more resilient to being shutdown by AAS. Flex Lewis has a young daughter, he's a good example.

Theoretically, yes, sperm production should increase. It can take months to really bring it back.

Take your HMG shot the night before your blood work, and get the blood drawn around 12 hours after. The half life is pretty short.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, it would pop as LH amd FSH in blood work depending on dose and timing.
> 
> Baseline fertility; before AAS as well as your genetic sensitivity to AAS induced infertility/sterility. Some guys' bodies are more resilient to being shutdown by AAS. Flex Lewis has a young daughter, he's a good example.
> 
> Theoretically, yes, sperm production should increase. It can take months to really bring it back.
> 
> Take your HMG shot the night before your blood work, and get the blood drawn around 12 hours after. The half life is pretty short.


 Amazing, I'm aware that it will take time to get sperm production going again and as I understand is around 2.5 to 3 months before starting to try to conceive.

I'm also aware being off gear is the best practice however I wanted to give this option a shot as from research, HMG has really helped those on TRT for fertility and even those who blast.

I have enough HMG I have been stocking recently to run 75UI 3 times per week for around a year so!

also is there any issue you have with consolidating say 3 x 150iu vials into 1 in bac water and keep refrigerated?

I just don't want to shoot 150ui 3 times per week as I feel I can make good progress with 75iu 3 times a week instead and will save a lot of money while allowing the duration of HMG to run longer.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Amazing, I'm aware that it will take time to get sperm production going again and as I understand is around 2.5 to 3 months before starting to try to conceive.
> 
> I'm also aware being off gear is the best practice however I wanted to give this option a shot as from research, HMG has really helped those on TRT for fertility and even those who blast.
> 
> I have enough HMG I have been stocking recently to run 75UI 3 times per week for around a year so!
> 
> also is there any issue you have with consolidating say 3 x 150iu vials into 1 in bac water and keep refrigerated?
> 
> I just don't want to shoot 150ui 3 times per week as I feel I can make good progress with 75iu 3 times a week instead and will save a lot of money while allowing the duration of HMG to run longer.


 You can mix and use it like HCG, it's almost identical.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> You can mix and use it like HCG, it's almost identical.


 Many thanks Joaquin


----------



## Tonynico

@ElChapo how effective is winstrol for Muscle gains?


----------



## MarkyMark

Tonynico said:


> @ElChapo how effective is winstrol for Muscle gains?


 Hi mate, he answered this for me before:

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/300969-ama-30-turbo-charged-ft-el-chapo/?do=embed&comment=5726734&embedComment=5726734&embedDo=findComment


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what's your suggested on off period for insulin use? the 4 weeks on 4 off seems to be outdated arbitrary figures and myself and quite a few people ive known have gone far beyond this with no ill effect

also

whats your thoughts on running insulin and growth during a cruise phase, better saved for blasts or a good way to continue growing whilst allowing lipids and RBC to normalize?


----------



## Tonynico

MarkyMark said:


> Hi mate, he answered this for me before:
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/300969-ama-30-turbo-charged-ft-el-chapo/?do=embed&comment=5726734&embedComment=5726734&embedDo=findComment


 Thanks mate


----------



## Vinny

MarkyMark said:


> Amazing, I'm aware that it will take time to get sperm production going again and as I understand is around 2.5 to 3 months before starting to try to conceive.
> 
> I'm also aware being off gear is the best practice however I wanted to give this option a shot as from research, HMG has really helped those on TRT for fertility and even those who blast.
> 
> I have enough HMG I have been stocking recently to run 75UI 3 times per week for around a year so!
> 
> also is there any issue you have with consolidating say 3 x 150iu vials into 1 in bac water and keep refrigerated?
> 
> I just don't want to shoot 150ui 3 times per week as I feel I can make good progress with 75iu 3 times a week instead and will save a lot of money while allowing the duration of HMG to run longer.


 s**t how did you get so much HMG? Was debating using it as part of my PCT coming off cycle but 150ui HMG is more expansive than 5000ui HCG.


----------



## MarkyMark

Vinny said:


> s**t how did you get so much HMG? Was debating using it as part of my PCT coming off cycle but 150ui HMG is more expansive than 5000ui HCG.


 yea i stocked it over time from 2 sources. You are right i have spent a lot on it but my aim is to continue to run test while trying to conceive rather than PCT and off then back on after month(s) of trying.

Like i have said already, im aware that due to continuing running aas my chances are less than coming off (in terms of fertility). But im confident based on my research and study's that i will have a good chance and thus happy to risk the money i have laid out on that basis.

Ill also add, that i have prob stocked up more HMG than necessary however I wanted to ensure i have ample supply.

in terms of HMG with PCT, i think if you have the money it would be ideal to use along side HCG in the clearing phase before you start the clomid and nolva. as @ElChapo has said already, it is actual FSH and LH and not an analogue so in my opinion your body will better use than of what the effects HCG has on promoting LH to kick start the system before starting ancillaries so to speak.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what's your suggested on off period for insulin use? the 4 weeks on 4 off seems to be outdated arbitrary figures and myself and quite a few people ive known have gone far beyond this with no ill effect
> 
> also
> 
> whats your thoughts on running insulin and growth during a cruise phase, better saved for blasts or a good way to continue growing whilst allowing lipids and RBC to normalize?


 Technically, exposure to insulin over time reduces insulin sensitivity in the cells, however, i've never seen it cause diabetes in a bodybuilder myself even those than run a lot of insulin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC45693/

Also, exercise and muscle mass reverse this effect and actually increase insulin sensitivity, so that's another confounding variable. Staying as lean as possible is another good idea to maximize the efficacy of your insulin/GH and minimize the risk of using it.

I would let the cells rest from the high levels of insulin during a cruise, let everything reset back is a good idea.


----------



## zariph

Can I do ralox only even tho im not on cycle to reduce gyno? Also will this also improve natty T lvls?


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Hi

My girlfriend is planning to compete in her first bikini comp in September, Shes being coached by a woman who's won the miami pro a few times and shes told my girlfriend that even bikini competitors still take some form of AAS.

My girlfriend planning to bulk for the next 6 months and her trainer has recommended anavar but im not so sure, do you think NPP would be better for her?

Or long story short what would you recommend a female take who is looking to gain some muscle and then cut down for firt bikini comp?

cheers


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Hi
> 
> My girlfriend is planning to compete in her first bikini comp in September, Shes being coached by a woman who's won the miami pro a few times and shes told my girlfriend that even bikini competitors still take some form of AAS.
> 
> My girlfriend planning to bulk for the next 6 months and her trainer has recommended anavar but im not so sure, do you think NPP would be better for her?
> 
> Or long story short what would you recommend a female take who is looking to gain some muscle and then cut down for firt bikini comp?
> 
> cheers


 Anavar is a good way to get her toes wet. No need for injections which spooks most women. Once she sees the benefits of anavar, she might be more open to trying NPP. If she wants to be bikini, anavar should do the job . 15-20 mg anavar daily is a solid and safe dosage.

For NPP, 50 mg per week is a good start for women.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo

Currently on a cruise before my first blast on 250 mg test e per week, if I increase this to 600mg a week, how long before I feel benefits.

Got a holiday in 8 weeks thinking of quick lean bulk, got some winny left from last cycle, is it worth it? And if so what would you add?

Thanks, you're a legend


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> Technically, exposure to insulin over time reduces insulin sensitivity in the cells, however, i've never seen it cause diabetes in a bodybuilder myself even those than run a lot of insulin.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC45693/
> 
> Also, exercise and muscle mass reverse this effect and actually increase insulin sensitivity, so that's another confounding variable. Staying as lean as possible is another good idea to maximize the efficacy of your insulin/GH and minimize the risk of using it.
> 
> I would let the cells rest from the high levels of insulin during a cruise, let everything reset back is a good idea.


 Hello Brother

What's your views on taking pharma hgh at 40 yrs old. I was thinking of starting now I'm 40 for general health benefits not for bodybuilding purposes. Thought it may help my aches and pains and maybe repair my body from 25 years of weight training. I have never taken it before. Only gonna take pharma grade at 2iu ed Mon to Fri.

@El Chapo


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

What's your thought about thoseHGH + INSULIN protocol:

1)

M/W/F injections

2iu HGH every meal + 5iu Humalog/Apidra

8iu HGH total, 40iu Insulin total

2)

M/W/F injections

8iu HGH AM

30mins later 30iu Lantus/Trouejo/Tresiba

10iu Humalog/Apidra postwo

8iu HGH total, 40iu Insulin total


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo
> 
> Currently on a cruise before my first blast on 250 mg test e per week, if I increase this to 600mg a week, how long before I feel benefits.
> 
> Got a holiday in 8 weeks thinking of quick lean bulk, got some winny left from last cycle, is it worth it? And if so what would you add?
> 
> Thanks, you're a legend


 4-6 weeks for most people to feel a change in dose with enanthate.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Hello Brother
> 
> What's your views on taking pharma hgh at 40 yrs old. I was thinking of starting now I'm 40 for general health benefits not for bodybuilding purposes. Thought it may help my aches and pains and maybe repair my body from 25 years of weight training. I have never taken it before. Only gonna take pharma grade at 2iu ed Mon to Fri.
> 
> @El Chapo


 Your levels are already lower than they were in your youth, so it's not a bad idea at all.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> What's your thought about thoseHGH + INSULIN protocol:
> 
> 1)
> 
> M/W/F injections
> 
> 2iu HGH every meal + 5iu Humalog/Apidra
> 
> 8iu HGH total, 40iu Insulin total
> 
> 2)
> 
> M/W/F injections
> 
> 8iu HGH AM
> 
> 30mins laster 30iu Lantus/Trouejo/Tresiba
> 
> 10iu Humalog/Apidra postwo
> 
> 8iu HGH total, 40iu Insulin total


 GH i would do daily, but no higher frequency than that.

Fast acting insulin will work better for what you are trying to achieve.

Lantus works all day so you would take that in the morning or at bedtime. It would not have much effect pre/post workout.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> GH i would do daily, but no higher frequency than that.
> 
> Fast acting insulin will work better for what you are trying to achieve.
> 
> Lantus works all day so you would take that in the morning or at bedtime. It would not have much effect pre/post workout.


 So daily HGH but every meal? No boom dosing....

The intention here is to elevate IGF1 as max as possible... and not desensitize to it...


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> Your levels are already lower than they were in your youth, so it's not a bad idea at all.


 Thanks for reply. If on low dose at 2iu Mon to Fri what are the cons to it health wise. Got heart disease and cancer in family.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> 4-6 weeks for most people to feel a change in dose with enanthate.


 So guessing not worth it then, cheers


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> So guessing not worth it then, cheers


 Test prop or ace will do the trick. Stuff kicks in fast and hard.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> So daily HGH but every meal? No boom dosing....
> 
> The intention here is to elevate IGF1 as max as possible... and not desensitize to it...


 Daily HGH, insulin fast acting with meals/especially post-workout meals.

Remember, body is in constant state of repair 24/7. Muscle is not only built post workout, but at all times during rest.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Thanks for reply. If on low dose at 2iu Mon to Fri what are the cons to it health wise. Got heart disease and cancer in family.


 This will bring you to the level of a healthy teenager/young adult. The best you can do to stay health is incorporate regular cardio into your routine and avoid carcinogenic substances like cigarette smoke, nitrates in meats. I could be more specific, but i need to know what type of cancer it is that you have in your family history.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> This will bring you to the level of a healthy teenager/young adult. The best you can do to stay health is incorporate regular cardio into your routine and avoid carcinogenic substances like cigarette smoke, nitrates in meats. I could be more specific, but i need to know what type of cancer it is that you have in your family history.


 I am pretty fit. Run x4 a week. Weights and circuits 4x a week. Dad had kidney cancer as well as quadruple bypass . All his family at some point have had heart attacks. No matter how clean I eat or fit I am my cholesterol don't come down but I refuse to have statin. On mum side there is nothing . I don't smoke don't do reccys and only drink once a wk. I only eat chicken and rarely might have lamb.


----------



## impreza_01

@El Chapo what compound and dosages would you recommend for acne prone guy like me? Cycle history is just test and tren. For some reason I don't experience other symptoms of high estro aside from chest acne. Did 750mg test with no AI and felt fine. Just got acne.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> I am pretty fit. Run x4 a week. Weights and circuits 4x a week. Dad had kidney cancer as well as quadruple bypass . All his family at some point have had heart attacks. No matter how clean I eat or fit I am my cholesterol don't come down but I refuse to have statin. On mum side there is nothing . I don't smoke don't do reccys and only drink once a wk. I only eat chicken and rarely might have lamb.


 How is your HDL off AAS? High cholesterol but good HDL levels are fine. I would look into vitamin K2, there is some preliminary research showing it could potentially stop atherosclerosis from developing. Keep up the weights and cardio, and stay lean. Under 15% body fat year round. You should be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

impreza_01 said:


> @El Chapo what compound and dosages would you recommend for acne prone guy like me? Cycle history is just test and tren. For some reason I don't experience other symptoms of high estro aside from chest acne. Did 750mg test with no AI and felt fine. Just got acne.


 Usually high E2 = Acne. This has been proven even on men not taking AAS. If you can control E2, it should reduce the acne issue. Deca is also another good.

From personal experience, high e2 and tren gives me some acne, and i have fantastic skin genes.


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> How is your HDL off AAS? High cholesterol but good HDL levels are fine. I would look into vitamin K2, there is some preliminary research showing it could potentially stop atherosclerosis from developing. Keep up the weights and cardio, and stay lean. Under 15% body fat year round. You should be fine.


 Always had high ldl and low hdl since my teens. Cardioilogist says it's genes.


----------



## impreza_01

@El Chapo @ghost.recon rate this blast for bulking

Week 1-20 Test E 750mg

Week 1-4 sdrol 10mg

Week 20-24 test 500 while still eating above maintenance.

Week 24-28 test 250mg while still eating above maintenance.

Then cut at

week 28- 36 Tren ace 350mg and test 250mg

Reasoni why I will taper doses now is because I experienced acne before when I did 500mg and cruise at 250mg before. Hoping that if I taper it this time I won't get it.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Always had high ldl and low hdl since my teens. Cardioilogist says it's genes.


 Cardio, fish oil, red wine and red yeast rice extract will boost HDL.


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo

What part of the red wine boosts HDL ? Is there a supplement?


----------



## Doitagain

@ElChapo

I know it's a broad question involving so many factors but...

38 Y/O

86kg 12% body fat

25mcg T3+50mcg T4 a day, year round

250mg Test E/week + 400mg Tren E/week + 50mg Anadrol/day, all for 16 weeks (plenty of TUDCA and cycle support)

Lift 3 times a week, moderate volume high intensity

Goal is to gain lean tissue ONLY

You feel 2900cals/day is pushing it since I don't want to gain ANY fat?


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What part of the red wine boosts HDL ? Is there a supplement?


 The alcohol mostly


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I know it's a broad question involving so many factors but...
> 
> 38 Y/O
> 
> 86kg 12% body fat
> 
> 25mcg T3+50mcg T4 a day, year round
> 
> 250mg Test E/week + 400mg Tren E/week + 50mg Anadrol/day, all for 16 weeks (plenty of TUDCA and cycle support)
> 
> Lift 3 times a week, moderate volume high intensity
> 
> Goal is to gain lean tissue ONLY
> 
> You feel 2900cals/day is pushing it since I don't want to gain ANY fat?


 https://legionathletics.com/how-many-calories-should-i-eat/

Calculate what your TDEE, how much you burn per day. Then aim for 0.5 lbs of lean mass per day. This should keep fat gain minimal if not down to nothing. You could also aim for .25 lbs per week, but i would go for .5 lbs per week.


----------



## ElChapo

impreza_01 said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.recon rate this blast for bulking
> 
> Week 1-20 Test E 750mg
> 
> Week 1-4 sdrol 10mg
> 
> Week 20-24 test 500 while still eating above maintenance.
> 
> Week 24-28 test 250mg while still eating above maintenance.
> 
> Then cut at
> 
> week 28- 36 Tren ace 350mg and test 250mg
> 
> Reasoni why I will taper doses now is because I experienced acne before when I did 500mg and cruise at 250mg before. Hoping that if I taper it this time I won't get it.


 No need to taper, a lot of times acne is caused by E2. Tapering will likely do nothing. Control E2 and supplement 50 mg of zinc picolinate through your test cycle.

If you are feeling adventurous, i would bump the sdrol to 20 mg and extend to 8 weeks.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

hi mate

thoughts on risk of muscle tissue loss on t3, assuming protein is adequate say 1g per lb min with a moderate deficit of say 20% cals.

Min opinion of gear to stave any muscle loss of, on 25mcg and 50mcg?

I know it's quite broad question so apologies just interested for your opinion


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

After being on most of last year with competing I cruised on 200mg test for 10 weeks and then got bloods. First time I've ever had bloodwork.

the urea and thyroid I think I can put down to being on DNP at time of sample, so the only thing really concerning me is high LDL.

looking at these bloods is this anything to worry about. Is this something that can be dealt with while on back on cycle with diet and supplementation?


----------



## DORIAN

Hi mate zinc picolate v normal zinc mate

Notice you recommend 50 mg, iv got some but says on the back 50 mg for prolonged periods could cause anaemia!!!  I trust your advice a lot so what's your take mate.... Iv just been biting in halfs ha


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> After being on most of last year with competing I cruised on 200mg test for 10 weeks and then got bloods. First time I've ever had bloodwork.
> 
> the urea and thyroid I think I can put down to being on DNP at time of sample, so the only thing really concerning me is high LDL.
> 
> looking at these bloods is this anything to worry about. Is this something that can be dealt with while on back on cycle with diet and supplementation?
> 
> View attachment 149171
> 
> 
> View attachment 149173


 Is this off cycle? How many weeks before/after?

I would retest thyroid later to confirm it was the DNP as i'm not sure DNP would lower thyroxine levels.

Some people are sensitive to testosterone's effect on cholesterol and even TRT doses can cause a decrease in HDL and increase in LDL.

Everything else looks fine, hematocrit is slightly elevated, if it stays there i would not worry but, any higher and i would donate blood.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hi mate
> 
> thoughts on risk of muscle tissue loss on t3, assuming protein is adequate say 1g per lb min with a moderate deficit of say 20% cals.
> 
> Min opinion of gear to stave any muscle loss of, on 25mcg and 50mcg?
> 
> I know it's quite broad question so apologies just interested for your opinion


 Typically, people are seeing muscle glycogen and nitrogen decrease from T3 supplementation and not actual muscle loss. It's a lot more efficient to use 50-75 mcg max of T3 and add other compounds though. Too much T3 will decrease strength and muscle endurance which is counter productive for training and retaining muscle mass.

300 mg of testosterone should stave of muscle loss for most people as long as diet/training/rest are in place. AAS increase nitrogen and glycogen in muscles and helps off the decrease in protein synthesis from thyroid hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hi mate zinc picolate v normal zinc mate
> 
> Notice you recommend 50 mg, iv got some but says on the back 50 mg for prolonged periods could cause anaemia!!!  I trust your advice a lot so what's your take mate.... Iv just been biting in halfs ha


 50 mg is the daily max, if you have a balanced diet, you will not likely run into problems with iron and copper imbalances. For normal supplmentation, i recommend for 15-30 mg daily, for acne, 50 mg works well for many including myself.

Picolinate is one of the most bioavailable forms, the most common you will in stores and vitamins is gluconate, oxide and sulfates.


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> 50 mg is the daily max, if you have a balanced diet, you will not likely run into problems with iron and copper imbalances. For normal supplmentation, i recommend for 15-30 mg daily, for acne, 50 mg works well for many including myself.
> 
> Picolinate is one of the most bioavailable forms, the most common you will in stores and vitamins is gluconate, oxide and sulfates.


 Cheers mate, gluconate is what I have at the minute I will switch when they finished


----------



## Pancake'

My sternum has started to loudly pop, when stretching, should I be worried? no real pain, as of yet. I think it has mainly occurred from arching on benching + pullovers. seem ok with dips.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> My sternum has started to loudly pop, when stretching, should I be worried? no real pain, as of yet. I think it has mainly occurred from arching on benching + pullovers. seem ok with dips.


 Used to happen to me on dips and resolved itself.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> Is this off cycle? How many weeks before/after?
> 
> I would retest thyroid later to confirm it was the DNP as i'm not sure DNP would lower thyroxine levels.
> 
> Some people are sensitive to testosterone's effect on cholesterol and even TRT doses can cause a decrease in HDL and increase in LDL.
> 
> Everything else looks fine, hematocrit is slightly elevated, if it stays there i would not worry but, any higher and i would donate blood.


 Thanks for the reply @ElChapo

These bloods were after 10 weeks cruising at 200mg every 7-10 days. And the sample was taken 10 days after a 200mg test jab.

So would you say there shouldn't be anything to worry about by going back on cycle, maybe get bloods while on cycle?

I've had a diet quite low in fat for the last 10 weeks, favouring calories from carbs, and have been very slack with taking the omega, something I have since changed.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thanks for the reply @ElChapo
> 
> These bloods were after 10 weeks cruising at 200mg every 7-10 days. And the sample was taken 10 days after a 200mg test jab.
> 
> So would you say there shouldn't be anything to worry about by going back on cycle, maybe get bloods while on cycle?
> 
> I've had a diet quite low in fat for the last 10 weeks, favouring calories from carbs, and have been very slack with taking the omega, something I have since changed.


 Yeah, everything looks fine.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, everything looks fine.


 Thank you buddy. Looks like today is Day 1 of my official offseason then.

Just one more quick question if you don't mind... I've been maintaining my weight for a few weeks at 3000kcal. As I'm beginning a lean bulking phase now, would you advise going straight into a surplus with the introduction of the cycle? If so how many calories would you increase initially?

(Test/NPP with 3 weeks superdrol kickstart)


----------



## SoberHans

What's the best form of cardio if bulking purely from a cardiovascular health point of view?

Also out of interest, whilst on cycle do you train the main body parts once or twice per week?

Thanks


----------



## iambazza

@ElChapo

What is your advice for first time tren users? Dosages, ester, duration, precautions, etc...

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thank you buddy. Looks like today is Day 1 of my official offseason then.
> 
> Just one more quick question if you don't mind... I've been maintaining my weight for a few weeks at 3000kcal. As I'm beginning a lean bulking phase now, would you advise going straight into a surplus with the introduction of the cycle? If so how many calories would you increase initially?
> 
> (Test/NPP with 3 weeks superdrol kickstart)


 If you want to keep the gains as lean as possible, you want to aim for 0.5 lbs per week of weight gain and keep fat on the low side. A surplus from carbs and protein is harder to convert to fat, versus dietary fat which gets stored right away in a surplus.

Calculate how many calories would you need daily to hit .5 lbs per week. Add 1,750 divided by 7, then add that to your maintenance. Roughly a 250 calorie surplus. So 250-500, you only want to gain .5 lbs - 1 lbs per week max.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> What's the best form of cardio if bulking purely from a cardiovascular health point of view?
> 
> Also out of interest, whilst on cycle do you train the main body parts once or twice per week?
> 
> Thanks


 During a bulk, steady state cardio is preferred as HIIT can affect performance and stress out the CNS. This cardio will also enhance recovery and lifting performance, as your body will become more efficient at pumping blood to the muscles and clearing metabolic byproducts of training (lactic acid, etc). 20-30 mins x 3 per week will do the job.

x 1-2 per week is the optimal frequency for HEAVY lifting(at an advanced/elite level) once per week is usually the max the CNS can handle and all you need for growth stimulus. As an intermediate or beginner, you can do heavy lifting x 2-3 per week for optimal growth. (Squats, deadlift, bench)

For higher reps/lighter weight, you can push this to x 2-3 per week. Usually smaller muscle groups. (bicep curls, triceps, pec flies, etc)


----------



## ElChapo

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What is your advice for first time tren users? Dosages, ester, duration, precautions, etc...
> 
> Thanks.


 I recommend 200-300 mg tren ace/enanthate with 300-500 mg testosterone prop/enanthate to try tren for the first time. Most sides should be minimal-moderate at worst and you will feel and see the compound working. You should always have at least one test E cycle under your belt. I am not against tren on the first cycle, but strongly recommend test only first to get a feel for AAS and your E2 control down.

Just as having AI handy for testosterone usage, i always recommend having on hand at least an 8-12 week course of raloxifene in case any tren gyno develops. That's the only real precaution needed. Controlling E2 will also help alleviate some of the negative effects on mood that tren is known for causing as well as the notoriously complex gynecomastia.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> recommend having on hand at least an 8-12 week course of raloxifene in case any tren gyno develops.
> 
> tren is known for causing as well as the notoriously complex gynecomastia.


 I'm my next blast I'm going to add a low dose of Tren E @ 200mg per week.

I was planning on running rolaxefine along with it and a few weeks after finishing to instead prevent gyno even occurring.

I know from your posts you state you will deal with it after and run the rolaxefine for 3 months or so however is using it during for prevention effective also?

I apprichate it will suppress natural igf, which is the only thing that puts me off using it for prevention but none the less I would prefer this protocol


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> I'm my next blast I'm going to add a low dose of Tren E @ 200mg per week.
> 
> I was planning on running rolaxefine along with it and a few weeks after finishing to instead prevent gyno even occurring.
> 
> I know from your posts you state you will deal with it after and run the rolaxefine for 3 months or so however is using it during for prevention effective also?
> 
> I apprichate it will suppress natural igf, which is the only thing that puts me off using it for prevention but none the less I would prefer this protocol


 The IGF suppression isn't too bad. It doesn't always work on cycle for everyone, but you can try.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> During a bulk, steady state cardio is preferred as HIIT can affect performance and stress out the CNS. This cardio will also enhance recovery and lifting performance, as your body will become more efficient at pumping blood to the muscles and clearing metabolic byproducts of training (lactic acid, etc). 20-30 mins x 3 per week will do the job.
> 
> x 1-2 per week is the optimal frequency for HEAVY lifting(at an advanced/elite level) once per week is usually the max the CNS can handle and all you need for growth stimulus. As an intermediate or beginner, you can do heavy lifting x 2-3 per week for optimal growth. (Squats, deadlift, bench)
> 
> For higher reps/lighter weight, you can push this to x 2-3 per week. Usually smaller muscle groups. (bicep curls, triceps, pec flies, etc)


 Thanks again, really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions


----------



## jointhecrazy

Just had test tested at 23, got levels of an 85-100 year old apparently but for NHS it is within normal range

Advice?


----------



## Matt2

How long does it take for sperm production to restart/ sperm volume to return to normal after stopping aas use? Currently in week 4 of pct, libido is ok and I feel alright but semen volumes are still very low. Would it be worth extending pct for a few more weeks?


----------



## ElChapo

jointhecrazy said:


> Just had test tested at 23, got levels of an 85-100 year old apparently but for NHS it is within normal range
> 
> Advice?
> 
> View attachment 149221


 What is your lifestyle like? How stressful? Sleep? Diet? Body fat?


----------



## ElChapo

Matt2 said:


> How long does it take for sperm production to restart/ sperm volume to return to normal after stopping aas use? Currently in week 4 of pct, libido is ok and I feel alright but semen volumes are still very low. Would it be worth extending pct for a few more weeks?


 Usually a year, close to 6 months with PCT. You can try another 4 weeks. Always run HCG with cycle if fertility is a concern.


----------



## Matt2

ElChapo said:


> Usually a year, close to 6 months with PCT. You can try another 4 weeks. Always run HCG with cycle if fertility is a concern.


 Thanks bud. Ran HCG 2x500 pw throughout the cycle and currently running a solid pct so hopefully all will be good.


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

What are your thoughts on running Metformin at 500mg twice a day throughout a lean bulk cycle. Will it be useful for nutrition partitioning, staying leaner and overall health benefits?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are your thoughts on running Metformin at 500mg twice a day throughout a lean bulk cycle. Will it be useful for nutrition partitioning, staying leaner and overall health benefits?


 People i know have found a body recomping effect from metformin, it would be a good experiment. Insulin sensitivity generally means = more muscle gains. There is some data showing a decrease in certain muscle building pathways, but i have a feeling AAS will mitigate this to a great extent if not completely. I would love to collect more data on bodybuilders running it, it might become a staple someday if it works well, like we see with raloxifene and hcg and now hmg.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo my physio has said she thinks I have a Bankart_lesion, have you encountered anything like this and if so, would gh, igf-1 or any swarms help with healing? Three weeks off the gym and zero improvement, so I returns d an use hammer strength machines for chest press, some shoulder exercises and even working back isn't painful whilst I'm at the gym. Lying on the left side, lateral raises are very sore, unable to swim the front crawl or join my hands above my head, hence asking if you've heard of this and what meds or methods could rehabilitate. Day to day stuff is hard. Cheers.

Oh, and test 900mg npp 450mg 12 weeks and 100mg winny (just for the first six weeks) would be decent as you mentioned winny before complimenting test and deca iirc?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankart_lesion


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Isn't possible to grow shredded?

Like... doing 3 days low low carbs medium prots high fats then 1 day high carb medium prots low fats?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo my physio has said she thinks I have a Bankart_lesion, have you encountered anything like this and if so, would gh, igf-1 or any swarms help with healing? Three weeks off the gym and zero improvement, so I returns d an use hammer strength machines for chest press, some shoulder exercises and even working back isn't painful whilst I'm at the gym. Lying on the left side, lateral raises are very sore, unable to swim the front crawl or join my hands above my head, hence asking if you've heard of this and what meds or methods could rehabilitate. Day to day stuff is hard. Cheers.
> 
> Oh, and test 900mg npp 450mg 12 weeks and 100mg winny (just for the first six weeks) would be decent as you mentioned winny before complimenting test and deca iirc?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankart_lesion


 It's not my field, but taking a quick look online, it looks like something that indicates the need for surgery most of the time with high success rate.

It does not look like something that could be repaired with PT and any drugs/meds/hormones.

Winstrol is always good, cut or bulk.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Isn't possible to grow shredded?
> 
> Like... doing 3 days low low carbs medium prots high fats then 1 day high carb medium prots low fats?


 It's possible, but gets more difficult the more advanced you are. A beginner and intermediate can actually gain muscle and lose fat at the same time if their training and diet are on point.

For an advanced bodybuilder, you would have to eat exactly the perfect amount of calories and would likely need to take something like trenbolone and even then, results would likely be slow. You can keep your gains very very lean, but staying shredded lean is very hard and usually its more easy and efficient to just gain a couple percent bodyfat and just cut.

People definitely go overboard and gain too much fat when bulking. Its not necessary and slows down how quickly you get your desired results by prolonging cuts.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It's possible, but gets more difficult the more advanced you are. A beginner and intermediate can actually gain muscle and lose fat at the same time if their training and diet are on point.
> 
> For an advanced bodybuilder, you would have to eat exactly the perfect amount of calories and would likely need to take something like trenbolone and even then, results would likely be slow. You can keep your gains very very lean, but staying shredded lean is very hard and usually its more easy and efficient to just gain a couple percent bodyfat and just cut.
> 
> People definitely go overboard and gain too much fat when bulking. Its not necessary and slows down how quickly you get your desired results by prolonging cuts.


 Thanks mate really appreciated!!! It's what i did last time... gone overboard with bulk and now i'm slowing my progress... let's say that at least since i am cutting on puberty TestE dose, my body is resting from the blast that i did....

Bulking isn't easy at all


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

How much do u know about muscle memory? Say some one built 5 lbs of muscle on a cycle using tren, dbol and high test or more and then somehow lost the 5 lbs of muscle due to poor diet or lack of gym. Then came back later on and only took, say test at a moderate dosage, would the muscle that came from that high dosage cycle to yield the 5 lbs come back super easy or would it require a similar cycle like at first?


----------



## JUICE1

ElChapo said:


> People i know have found a body recomping effect from metformin, it would be a good experiment. Insulin sensitivity generally means = more muscle gains. There is some data showing a decrease in certain muscle building pathways, but i have a feeling AAS will mitigate this to a great extent if not completely. I would love to collect more data on bodybuilders running it, it might become a staple someday if it works well, like we see with raloxifene and hcg and now hmg.


 What do you think of Berberine compared to Metformin?


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How much do u know about muscle memory? Say some one built 5 lbs of muscle on a cycle using tren, dbol and high test or more and then somehow lost the 5 lbs of muscle due to poor diet or lack of gym. Then came back later on and only took, say test at a moderate dosage, would the muscle that came from that high dosage cycle to yield the 5 lbs come back super easy or would it require a similar cycle like at first?


 It could come back but there are a lot of factors to consider, how close to your genetic limit is that 5 lbs, how well do you respond to AAS in general? Typically, what i have noticed with myself and others is that muscle built with some foundation of strength is easier to maintain than muscle built on high reps/volume alone, and a bonus is that you can roughly gauge your maintenance of musde mass by how well you maintain your strength, on a different dose, cruise, or off cycle.

To answer the question, i would say yes most of the time, but there is no guarantee. Also take into account that extra AAS sometimes means more nitrogen/glycogen aka pump look.

The science behind muscle memory is that when you build new muscle, you create new myonuclei aka new muscle cells. When you stop training, these cells shrink, they don't go away. When you bring back the training stimulus, the muscle cell "wakes up" and starts to return to it's full size. This is why some are proposing longer or indefinite bans for doping offenses as there is potentially a permanent advantage to using PEDs even after discontinuance. The study was done on rodents, but the mechanism is likely the same in humans.

http://sciencenordic.com/steroid-effects-can-last-decades (If you want to read more )


----------



## ElChapo

JUICE1 said:


> What do you think of Berberine compared to Metformin?


 Answered previously, seems to do just about the same thing. Legit compound


----------



## jointhecrazy

ElChapo said:


> What is your lifestyle like? How stressful? Sleep? Diet? Body fat?


 all gravy mate

very balanced diet and not low on cals

box two to three times a week when not training for a fight and 4 to 5 times a week when i am

sleep minimum 6 hours a day usually 8

job can be stressfull at times but most of time is good

bf is about 18% sometimes less never more for anything more than a couple of weeks

think T is just naturally low and always has been, bone structure body type voice skin etc all points to low androgen output during puberty from what i've read

T level is at a level where NHS would not prescribe TRT, even though it puts in me in the 85-100 category,

but don't want to pay private prices for life so thinking of self-medicating for a couple of years then dropping and going to NHS when levels are rock bottomed out

If i do this i will get bloods regular to find out what anti E dose to work off

What T/E and any other levels would you personally aim for to have truly optimal quality of life and benefits whilst keeping risks to a minimum? i want optimal levels not 100mg per week "average levels"

Thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

jointhecrazy said:


> all gravy mate
> 
> very balanced diet and not low on cals
> 
> box two to three times a week when not training for a fight and 4 to 5 times a week when i am
> 
> sleep minimum 6 hours a day usually 8
> 
> job can be stressfull at times but most of time is good
> 
> bf is about 18% sometimes less never more for anything more than a couple of weeks
> 
> think T is just naturally low and always has been, bone structure body type voice skin etc all points to low androgen output during puberty from what i've read
> 
> T level is at a level where NHS would not prescribe TRT, even though it puts in me in the 85-100 category,
> 
> but don't want to pay private prices for life so thinking of self-medicating for a couple of years then dropping and going to NHS when levels are rock bottomed out
> 
> If i do this i will get bloods regular to find out what anti E dose to work off
> 
> What T/E and any other levels would you personally aim for to have truly optimal quality of life and benefits whilst keeping risks to a minimum? i want optimal levels not 100mg per week "average levels"
> 
> Thanks mate


 You're borderline so things like supplementing zinc and vitamin D with weight lifting i have seen bump people up by 200 points.

If you want to go TRT route, most people feel best between 700-1000 ng/dl total testosterone and an E2 between 20-42 pg/mL. It will vary person to person but those are the "optimal" ranges for health and well-being.

You can convert those units with online calculators if you are using the other ones. ^


----------



## jointhecrazy

ElChapo said:


> You're borderline so things like supplementing zinc and vitamin D with weight lifting i have seen bump people up by 200 points.
> 
> If you want to go TRT route, most people feel best between 700-1000 ng/dl total testosterone and an E2 between 20-42 pg/mL. It will vary person to person but those are the "optimal" ranges for health and well-being.
> 
> You can convert those units with online calculators if you are using the other ones. ^


 i combine weightlifting with my boxing training particularly when not training for a fight so i feel naturally things are about as good as they are going to get

vitamin D i supplement already due to being very pale and uk having shite weather

zinc is something i have looked into as i vaguely recall it being beneficial combined with magnesium particularly if you sweat a great deal and i have horrendous night sweats every day without fail so i will probably be low in them

thanks for your response too


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> During a bulk, steady state cardio is preferred as HIIT can affect performance and stress out the CNS. This cardio will also enhance recovery and lifting performance, as your body will become more efficient at pumping blood to the muscles and clearing metabolic byproducts of training (lactic acid, etc). 20-30 mins x 3 per week will do the job.
> 
> x 1-2 per week is the optimal frequency for HEAVY lifting(at an advanced/elite level) once per week is usually the max the CNS can handle and all you need for growth stimulus. As an intermediate or beginner, you can do heavy lifting x 2-3 per week for optimal growth. (Squats, deadlift, bench)


 When im cutting I usually opt 3x 20min HIIT sessions and a very brief spot of heavy lifting (Wendlers 5-3-1, last set AMRAP) with the idea of keeping strength without pushing the muscles to far and needing repair.

Usually it looks like;

Day 1: Deadlifts (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: Bench (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT
Day 4: Squats + Military (both 2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set)
Day 5: Rest

Repeat, so one (two) compound is done twice a week.

Do you think I should maybe do more heavy sets or some assistance/hypertrophy exercises? Anything you think I should change?


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> When im cutting I usually opt 3x 20min HIIT sessions and a very brief spot of heavy lifting (Wendlers 5-3-1, last set AMRAP) with the idea of keeping strength without pushing the muscles to far and needing repair.
> 
> Usually it looks like;
> 
> Day 1: Deadlifts (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT
> Day 2: Rest
> Day 3: Bench (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT
> Day 4: Squats + Military (both 2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set)
> Day 5: Rest
> 
> Repeat, so one (two) compound is done twice a week.
> 
> Do you think I should maybe do more heavy sets or some assistance/hypertrophy exercises? Anything you think I should change?


 For cutting or in general? This routine will maintain muscle and strength but i would throw in weighted chin ups for biceps and back which will also help prevent shoulder impingement and muscle imbalance from your bench+military press. You can throw them into your deadlift or bench day since day 4 already has 2 exercises.

If you are bulking, you can use this same routine with an emphasis on progressive overload+caloric surplus ( adding a little weight each week) and add higher volume assistance exercises for each body part to each day, example:

Day 1: Deadlifts (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT ADD WEIGHTED CHINS+BICEP CURLS
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: Bench (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT ADD PEC FLIES+DIPS
Day 4: Squats + Military (both 2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) ADD LATERAL RAISES+LEG MACHINE
Day 5: Rest


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> If you are bulking, you can use this same routine with an emphasis on progressive overload+caloric surplus ( adding a little weight each week) and add higher volume assistance exercises for each body part to each day, example:


 Yeah when I'm bulking I split apart the Squats + Military so it's a four different days plus then add 4-5 assistance exercises depending on the compound/bodypart.

That being said I don't tend to do any isolation exercises for biceps or triceps. Obviously there's the more arm-centric exercises like close grip bench on chest day or chinups on back day but thats about it. Do you really think they are needed?

With the Weighted Chinups do you think it's better to do 3-5 reps of a heavy weight or 8-12 reps of a lower weight (though I'm pretty certain I couldn't do more than one set of weighted chinups before entering the 3-5 rep range again ha).


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> For cutting or in general? This routine will maintain muscle and strength but i would throw in weighted chin ups for biceps and back which will also help prevent shoulder impingement and muscle imbalance from your bench+military press. You can throw them into your deadlift or bench day since day 4 already has 2 exercises.
> 
> If you are bulking, you can use this same routine with an emphasis on progressive overload+caloric surplus ( adding a little weight each week) and add higher volume assistance exercises for each body part to each day, example:
> 
> Day 1: Deadlifts (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT ADD WEIGHTED CHINS+BICEP CURLS
> Day 2: Rest
> Day 3: Bench (2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) + 20mins HIIT ADD PEC FLIES+DIPS
> Day 4: Squats + Military (both 2x3-5, 1x AMRAP heaviest set) ADD LATERAL RAISES+LEG MACHINE
> Day 5: Rest


 why only once per week frequency?

surely its better to be stimulating a muscle group and practicing a movement twice weekly, particularly as someone with enhanced recovery

even if not for the increased stimulation of elevated protein synthesis which become a bit less irrelevant on those using AAS
practicing a movement is how you get better at it

if you bench 104x per year you you will have had double the opportunity to add weight and become more efficient at the exercise


----------



## impreza_01

Im 8 weeks in 750 test and got bloods tested. Estro is bit high but I never experience gyno or acne now. Do you advise to continue what i'm doing or i should get estro in normal range for health reason?


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo

whats your thoughts on over the counter performance enhancing supplements like creatine, citruline malate and beta alanine


----------



## MrBishi

swole troll said:


> why only once per week frequency?
> 
> surely its better to be stimulating a muscle group and practicing a movement twice weekly, particularly as someone with enhanced recovery
> 
> even if not for the increased stimulation of elevated protein synthesis which become a bit less irrelevant on those using AAS
> practicing a movement is how you get better at it
> 
> if you bench 104x per year you you will have had double the opportunity to add weight and become more efficient at the exercise


 Think ElChapo was just going off the routine I was talking about. I remember previously he thought hitting a muscle group twice a week was best.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Yeah when I'm bulking I split apart the Squats + Military so it's a four different days plus then add 4-5 assistance exercises depending on the compound/bodypart.
> 
> That being said I don't tend to do any isolation exercises for biceps or triceps. Obviously there's the more arm-centric exercises like close grip bench on chest day or chinups on back day but thats about it. Do you really think they are needed?
> 
> With the Weighted Chinups do you think it's better to do 3-5 reps of a heavy weight or 8-12 reps of a lower weight (though I'm pretty certain I couldn't do more than one set of weighted chinups before entering the 3-5 rep range again ha).


 It depends on your goals, some people look good doing the compound exercises and others don't really care about aesthetics and only care about strength.

If you care about aesthetics but want to focus on compound exercises, i highly recommend the weighted chin ups. It's a compound exercise that hits the back and biceps extremely well. With the same intensity as squats hit the legs and bench hits the chest and triceps.

I like reverse pyramid training, which lets me incorporate different rep ranges. My first set is the heaviest with the lower reps, my last set is the lightest with the highest rep range. I do prefer at least 6 reps for the weighted chin ups. I reserve 3-5 rep range for deadlifts usually, but you can still hit them there.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> why only once per week frequency?
> 
> surely its better to be stimulating a muscle group and practicing a movement twice weekly, particularly as someone with enhanced recovery
> 
> even if not for the increased stimulation of elevated protein synthesis which become a bit less irrelevant on those using AAS
> practicing a movement is how you get better at it
> 
> if you bench 104x per year you you will have had double the opportunity to add weight and become more efficient at the exercise


 When advanced/elite, you can get away with x 2 per week squat, bench, deadlift but you will probably only have one legit/max intensity day. The other days would have to be higher volume, lighter weight. Deadlifts above x 3 your body weight REALLY drain the CNS and it can take 7-9 days to get your juice back.

CNS recovery isn't enhanced as much as the metabolic muscle recovery with AAS. I agree that at the beginner to early stages of advanced you can push it to x 3 per week, but you should start cutting back as you start approaching higher advancement levels.

The above pertains more to elevating strength levels, higher rep/higher volume exercise doesn't fry the CNS the same way as heavy strength training.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your thoughts on over the counter performance enhancing supplements like creatine, citruline malate and beta alanine


 Was never impressed honestly, creatine has impressive effects on paper and it can increases muscle satellite cells byabout 30% which can enhance the potential for growth and strength. I would take back when trying to hit new PRs just to make sure i'm getting 100% everything i can out of it. The stuff bloats my face something fierce though.


----------



## ElChapo

impreza_01 said:


> Im 8 weeks in 750 test and got bloods tested. Estro is bit high but I never experience gyno or acne now. Do you advise to continue what i'm doing or i should get estro in normal range for health reason?


 If you feel good, with good libido/erections or bad libido/erections but dont care, it's up to you.

Typically in range E2 will make you feel good energy/mood wise, with optimal libido and erection strength. Long term, high E2 can cause cardiovascular issues, but cycle shouldn't cause you any problems unless you are crusing or blasting for a long time with high levels.

Some men feel good with slightly elevated E2, but more than that enters you into female territory and you will start feeling it.


----------



## Pancake'

Are decline sit ups a high risk exercise to perform?

Does AAS really alter face muscles, jawline? if you're already pretty lean,

with a lean face and start blasting, can changes like this occur?


----------



## ishadow

@ghost.recon @ElChapo I'm currently running 600mg Deca, 600mg Test E and using 600mg NPP to kick start and finish off the Nandrolone.

I'm planning on coming off to PCT and recover, and stay off until need of the year.

Would it be a bad idea to cut on Test E + Tren Ace straight after the Deca+Test blast and then PCT and come off? I understand I'd be "on" for an extended amount of time, but more concern what the "cut" stack will have on the gains I've just archived.


----------



## impreza_01

@ElChapo How is my estrogen in 300mg test E per week with no AI. Blood work says 60.86 pg/mL, high or low?


----------



## ishadow

impreza_01 said:


> @ElChapo How is my estrogen in 300mg test E per week with no AI. Blood work says 60.86 pg/mL, high or low?


 N*ormal* total estradiol levels are somewhere between 20-55 pg/mL. 60.86pg/mL is only just over the top end, won't worry personally.


----------



## Chelsea

@ElChapo

Whats your thoughts on GH timing when on Prep, say for example someone that is doing fasted cardio in the morning for 30 mins

Personally i take GH pre workout but my thinking would be to split the dose so i would take it pre cardio and pre training to maximise the fat loss effects.

Your take?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Are decline sit ups a high risk exercise to perform?
> 
> Does AAS really alter face muscles, jawline? if you're already pretty lean,
> 
> with a lean face and start blasting, can changes like this occur?


 Most benefit you will see will be from a properly performed "crunch" and not situp. A crunch isolates the rectus abdominus and you get maximum activation going up only 30 degrees. A situp has you going past 30 degrees. The issue is that most people perform crunches and situp improperly and use their hip flexors or swinging which removes the isolation on the abs. One of the best ways to maximize your crunches is to perform them on the swiss/bosu ball, especially the half one. This will take the hip flexors completely out of the exercise and isolate the abs completely.

AAS could affect facial structure if you are still maturing, most men will reach full maturity by age 25, depending on puberty onset and genetics. Other wise, any effect could be attributed by a drying effect to the skin or extra nitrogen in the jaw muscles.

If you are younger than 25 and have not finished maturing, i would say it's possible. There are anecdotes of this from people.


----------



## ElChapo

ishadow said:


> @ghost.recon @ElChapo I'm currently running 600mg Deca, 600mg Test E and using 600mg NPP to kick start and finish off the Nandrolone.
> 
> I'm planning on coming off to PCT and recover, and stay off until need of the year.
> 
> Would it be a bad idea to cut on Test E + Tren Ace straight after the Deca+Test blast and then PCT and come off? I understand I'd be "on" for an extended amount of time, but more concern what the "cut" stack will have on the gains I've just archived.


 If you cut, do it on cycle. There would be no issue, but it's imperative that you run HCG/HMG if you want to maximize your chances of successful PCT ESPECIALLY after running 19nors for an extended period of time. Have you seen any testicular shrinkage yet?


----------



## ElChapo

impreza_01 said:


> @ElChapo How is my estrogen in 300mg test E per week with no AI. Blood work says 60.86 pg/mL, high or low?


 No to bad on 300 mg, how do you feel? it's slightly over the top of the range, but some guys feel best at that levels. Others feel better when it's lower.

Look at erection strength, mood stability, bloat/blood pressure/water retention, libido, energy, etc.

I would go by feel, but any higher than this and i would recommend a little AI. 1 mg of adex per week would do the trick.


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Whats your thoughts on GH timing when on Prep, say for example someone that is doing fasted cardio in the morning for 30 mins
> 
> Personally i take GH pre workout but my thinking would be to split the dose so i would take it pre cardio and pre training to maximise the fat loss effects.
> 
> Your take?


 Once daily will do the trick, no need to split. Try it and you won't see a difference.


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> If you cut, do it on cycle. There would be no issue, but it's imperative that you run HCG/HMG if you want to maximize your chances of successful PCT ESPECIALLY after running 19nors for an extended period of time. Have you seen any testicular shrinkage yet?


 Sounds good to me pal, When I come off the Test/NPP, I'll jump on Tren Ace for 6 weeks and do bit of a cut before PCT'ing.

Going to start running HCG 500ui a week again while on Cycle, Yeah have bit of shrinkage, planning on doing HCG 2000ui EOD for 10 shots at the start of the PCT, as I know it's a very extended 19nor cycle. And then plan to stay off until Oct/Nov time.


----------



## ElChapo

ishadow said:


> Sounds good to me pal, When I come off the Test/NPP, I'll jump on Tren Ace for 6 weeks and do bit of a cut before PCT'ing.
> 
> Going to start running HCG 500ui a week again while on Cycle, Yeah have bit of shrinkage, planning on doing HCG 2000ui EOD for 10 shots at the start of the PCT, as I know it's a very extended 19nor cycle. And then plan to stay off until Oct/Nov time.


 You should be able to drop at least 3% bodyfat in that 6 weeks depending on how lean you already are. Likely more...

I recommend 1,000 IU per week, it can be more effective in my observation.


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo

I know this has been asked before but can't find your reply

What insulin protocol would you incorporate for bulking using fast acting slin?

Preworkout? Postworkout? Big doses or smaller more frequent dones? How many times per week?


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> You should be able to drop at least 3% bodyfat in that 6 weeks depending on how lean you already are. Likely more...
> 
> I recommend 1,000 IU per week, it can be more effective in my observation.


 Thanks pal that's awesome.

Yeah will get some more HCG in and do 1000ui


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

How long would you recommend staying on tren while bulking I'm currently on week 7 and everything is going really good! Would 16 weeks be to much even if I feel good?


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I know this has been asked before but can't find your reply
> 
> What insulin protocol would you incorporate for bulking using fast acting slin?
> 
> Preworkout? Postworkout? Big doses or smaller more frequent dones? How many times per week?


 Nothing fancy, just look up a standard slin protocol and run it. 90% of results will come from training and diet.


----------



## ElChapo

JuiceyjayV2 said:


> How long would you recommend staying on tren while bulking I'm currently on week 7 and everything is going really good! Would 16 weeks be to much even if I feel good?


 No issues with 16 weeks as long as you feel good, sometimes extending a cycle is worth it when you have the momentum going and gains keep coming.


----------



## JuiceyjayV2

ElChapo said:


> No issues with 16 weeks as long as you feel good, sometimes extending a cycle is worth it when you have the momentum going and gains keep coming.


 Awesome I blast and cruise and so far this one feels really dialled in!


----------



## ElChapo

JuiceyjayV2 said:


> Awesome I blast and cruise and so far this one feels really dialled in!


 Yeah, sometimes you wanna keep the train moving. Just make sure BP is in check and you don't have any weird symptoms like chest pain.


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo what medication can i take that helps with my binge eating disorder?


----------



## bornagod

Nara said:


> @ElChapo what medication can i take that helps with my binge eating disorder?


 Sibutramine should help with hunger


----------



## Nara

bornagod said:


> Sibutramine should help with hunger


 Didn't do anything for me


----------



## bornagod

Nara said:


> Didn't do anything for me


 Wasnt bunk or underdosed?


----------



## JUICE1

Nara said:


> Didn't do anything for me


 Really? Even stoned it seems to keep my appetite down @ 20mg.

Been using it recently just to have 1 or 2 low calorie days / week to excellent effect.


----------



## Chelsea

ElChapo said:


> Once daily will do the trick, no need to split. Try it and you won't see a difference.


 Thanks mate, and what would you say is the most beneficial time to take GH for fat loss and size gain?

In the morning for fat loss and pre workout for bulking?


----------



## PSevens2017

Nara said:


> Didn't do anything for me


 Did it not cause sleep issues. as in restlessness?

I remember using it, had a job to sleep. This was in the Summer though. Funny thing was I was in Tescos shopping, stood in the chocolate biscuit aisle but couldn't decide as I didn't fancy anything..... but I still stood there. Must've worked on me somehow


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> You should be able to drop at least 3% bodyfat in that 6 weeks depending on how lean you already are. Likely more...
> 
> I recommend 1,000 IU per week, it can be more effective in my observation.


 Do you think I could get away with Injecting Tren Ace 3 times a week?

E.g Monday AM, Wednesday AM and Friday PM?


----------



## Nara

bornagod said:


> Wasnt bunk or underdosed?


 @JUICE1 @PSevens2017 it was dimensions if I remember correctly. Might need to try it again


----------



## SlinMeister

Chelsea said:


> Thanks mate, and what would you say is the most beneficial time to take GH for fat loss and size gain?
> 
> In the morning for fat loss and pre workout for bulking?


 I would like to have an opinion also from @El Chapo about this topic....

But it seems that HGH is better to take in split doses during the day together with baby doses of fast acting slin (humalog,novolog, apidra) like for example:

6iu HGH

2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before breakfast

2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before lunch

2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before dinner

The idea is to keep spiking IGF1 without let the body gets used to it and activates countermeasures.

It seems that this way you will take advantage of both worlds HGH and IGF1.

On GH15.org a guy "TheCure" speaks about that.....


----------



## green81

SlinMeister said:


> I would like to have an opinion also from @El Chapo about this topic....
> 
> But it seems that HGH is better to take in split doses during the day together with baby doses of fast acting slin (humalog,novolog, apidra) like for example:
> 
> 6iu HGH
> 
> 2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before breakfast
> 
> 2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before lunch
> 
> 2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before dinner
> 
> The idea is to keep spiking IGF1 without let the body gets used to it and activates countermeasures.
> 
> It seems that this way you will take advantage of both worlds HGH and IGF1.
> 
> On GH15.org a guy "TheCure" speaks about that.....


 Your body won't build a tolerance to HGH people with acromegaly keep on growing until they've grown as much as they can for the levels that they have or they die from heart complications I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns but 6iu is nowhere the amount secreted by an abnormality or tumor.


----------



## SlinMeister

green81 said:


> Your body won't build a tolerance to IGF-1 people with acromegaly keep on growing until they've grown as much as they can for the levels that they have or they die from heart complications.


 OFC they are full of useless IGF1.... you want the BP3 ones....


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo what medication can i take that helps with my binge eating disorder?


 Wellbutrin is pretty mild, will boost dopamine; motivation and energy and decrease appetite and cravings.

it has been used to stop smoking in addicted patients.

Binging has a strong genetic component as well, its linked to dopamine receptor differences in humans.


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> Thanks mate, and what would you say is the most beneficial time to take GH for fat loss and size gain?
> 
> In the morning for fat loss and pre workout for bulking?


 Once in the morning will do the trick. The effect of GH lasts longer than the serum levels staying elevated. That's how growth hormone works.


----------



## ElChapo

ishadow said:


> Do you think I could get away with Injecting Tren Ace 3 times a week?
> 
> E.g Monday AM, Wednesday AM and Friday PM?


 Yes, i do this all the time. You won't see a difference.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I would like to have an opinion also from @El Chapo about this topic....
> 
> But it seems that HGH is better to take in split doses during the day together with baby doses of fast acting slin (humalog,novolog, apidra) like for example:
> 
> 6iu HGH
> 
> 2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before breakfast
> 
> 2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before lunch
> 
> 2iu HGH + 2iu Humalog before dinner
> 
> The idea is to keep spiking IGF1 without let the body gets used to it and activates countermeasures.
> 
> It seems that this way you will take advantage of both worlds HGH and IGF1.
> 
> On GH15.org a guy "TheCure" speaks about that.....


 You're body wont build a tolerance to IGF.

This is like the erroneous belief that andrgen receptors get desensitized. If this were true, men would never reach freak levels of development.


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> Yes, i do this all the time. You won't see a difference.


 Brilliant thankyou. Planning on doing 225mg Tren Ace and 300mg Test E


----------



## ElChapo

ishadow said:


> Brilliant thankyou. Planning on doing 225mg Tren Ace and 300mg Test E


 200 mg tren ace is a nice dose. You feel it with zero sides.


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> 200 mg tren ace is a nice dose. You feel it with zero sides.


 Thanks mate, that's what I'm hoping especially with it being first time trying Tren


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo aside from squeezing calories into a workout time do you see any benefit in intra workout nutrition ?

Essential amino acids, peptopro, cyclic dextrin ect...


----------



## SoberHans

El Chapo do you prefer whey during day and casein at night? A blend or just whey,?

Just wondering if casein is worth it basically, cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo aside from squeezing calories into a workout time do you see any benefit in intra workout nutrition ?
> 
> Essential amino acids, peptopro, cyclic dextrin ect...


 Some studies show increased performance from intra workout carb intake. I would only really do it for the calories when you are having trouble fitting them in.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> El Chapo do you prefer whey during day and casein at night? A blend or just whey,?
> 
> Just wondering if casein is worth it basically, cheers.


 End of the day it makes no difference. Casein is more filling, whey is less filling.

Calorie and protein balance > type of protein/meal frequency


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> End of the day it makes no difference. Casein is more filling, whey is less filling.
> 
> Calorie and protein balance > type of protein/meal frequency


 Thought so. Like you say only benefit is more filling, less likely to be hungry if I wake in middle of night.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thought so. Like you say only benefit is more filling, less likely to be hungry if I wake in middle of night.
> 
> Thanks


 Casein will keep you fuller(more satiated) on a cut. Also contains a ton of calcium.


----------



## mangob

back on cycle - having problems "peeing" (no pain, dribbles at end and not as "powerful" as before) - symptoms are like enlarged prostate.

Went to doc - urine, and blood samples show no infections and prostate results were normal also.

What could it be? what should I have them check for? Anyone else experience that?


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

Hey, Do u know of any online blood work that I can get that shows all: Liver, TSH, Test/E2, Kidneys all in one?


----------



## UK2USA

I have seen you make reference to supplements on a number of occasions, but always in response to someone's question about a specific one, such as zink, fish oil, k2 etc. I would love to know what items would be on your essential daily supplement list, and why?


----------



## Jonk891

@El Chapo

I noticed you recommend 5000iu of vitamin D for those that don't get any exposure to sun. I read that vitamin D can cause atherosclerosis what's your view on this


----------



## Pancake'

High dose/short duration vs low-moderate dose/longer duration cycles. Which is least harmful to health?


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> back on cycle - having problems "peeing" (no pain, dribbles at end and not as "powerful" as before) - symptoms are like enlarged prostate.
> 
> Went to doc - urine, and blood samples show no infections and prostate results were normal also.
> 
> What could it be? what should I have them check for? Anyone else experience that?


 What are you running? I have the same issues on high masteron doses. 5 mg cialis daily will alleviate the symptoms and is actually prescribed for BPH now. It is as effective as the typically prescribed drug flomax aka tamsulosin.

The BPH sides are usually transient and go away post-cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey, Do u know of any online blood work that I can get that shows all: Liver, TSH, Test/E2, Kidneys all in one?


 Usually i go to discountedlabs and grab them all individually, however, do they have some good combo labs you can take a look at.

https://www.discountedlabs.com/


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I have seen you make reference to supplements on a number of occasions, but always in response to someone's question about a specific one, such as zink, fish oil, k2 etc. I would love to know what items would be on your essential daily supplement list, and why?


 Vitamin D3 for those who live in colder climates or don't get regular sun exposure. Cardiovascular exercise is the best medicine/supplement with the most benefits for heart, brain, energy and well-being/overall health.

Other good ones are zinc/magnesium/protein for those with poor/deficient diets, and pinebark extract/curcumin with diets low in fruits/vegetables/antioxidants.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I noticed you recommend 5000iu of vitamin D for those that don't get any exposure to sun. I read that vitamin D can cause atherosclerosis what's your view on this


 Extremely high levels of vitamin D can cause issues with calcium balance in the blood, optimal levels are essential for overall health though. Typically i wouldn't go past 80 ng/mL, with the optimal range typically being 40-70 ng/mL.

Vitamin K2 may be linked to atherosclerosis prevention as it is essential in carboxylating matrix gla protein which helps keep calcium in the bones and out of the blood stream and arteries, Some hypothesize that too much vitamin D and too little vitamin K may be a factor in arterial calcification as Vitamin D increase matrix gla protein but vitamin K is needed to carboxylate it.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> High dose/short duration vs low-moderate dose/longer duration cycles. Which is least harmful to health?


 Typically, what will harm a bodybuilder's health is duration of exposure overtime, that being, many years of use and genetic risk factors for atherosclerosis, liver disease, etc.

Higher doses will require less time on to cause adverse health effects. There are two kinds of issues we are concerned with, ACUTE problems like stroke, heart attack, blood clots. CHRONIC issues like calcification of the arteries, liver damage, heart failure. High doses will increase the risk of acute issues, but time on & duration would be more relevant to the chronic health effects of AAS.

To answer the question, they can both be harmful in their own way. Even on moderate doses, for enough time on will be just as bad huge blast.


----------



## mangob

ElChapo said:


> What are you running? I have the same issues on high masteron doses. 5 mg cialis daily will alleviate the symptoms and is actually prescribed for BPH now. It is as effective as the typically prescribed drug flomax aka tamsulosin.
> 
> The BPH sides are usually transient and go away post-cycle.
> 
> 3


 Thanks for the answer.

Mast... that could explain it... but I dont find I am on high doses.. maybe just sensitive.

on 400pw (correction)

Got some stuff to counter enlargement of prostate, will get me some cialis then too if that helps.


----------



## SlinMeister

How much high was your Masteron dose to have this issue?


----------



## mangob

SlinMeister said:


> How much high was your Masteron dose to have this issue?


 300-400 - pinned today - may just drop it, if it does not stop


----------



## mmichael

ElChapo said:


> Usually i go to discountedlabs and grab them all individually, however, do they have some good combo labs you can take a look at.
> 
> https://www.discountedlabs.com/


 The one that is 30ish is capped I'm guessing, seems kind of pointless for a steroid user? The other one says >1500ng/dl and costs 82, not even showing tsh or anything else...


----------



## Savage Lifter

Nara said:


> @JUICE1 @PSevens2017 it was dimensions if I remember correctly. Might need to try it again


 Get the same issues as you. For me it's cravings and feeling the need to eat rather than being hungry.


----------



## ElChapo

mangob said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> Mast... that could explain it... but I dont find I am on high doses.. maybe just sensitive.
> 
> on 400pw (correction)
> 
> Got some stuff to counter enlargement of prostate, will get me some cialis then too if that helps.


 That could be enough to trigger it. I am 90% sure it's the mast. I had the same issue, and it did not appear on my first few runs on masteron.

You can drop the mast, or add cialis 5 mg daily or 20 mg E3D and keep running it. The cialis will fix your issues.


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> The one that is 30ish is capped I'm guessing, seems kind of pointless for a steroid user? The other one says >1500ng/dl and costs 82, not even showing tsh or anything else...


 They can get expensive. The CBC/metabolic stuff is pretty cheap.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

What is your view on primo for lean bulk at 800 to 1000mg per week along with test?

Can it be injected once per week (using several sites to reach the full gram needed?) or better to split up for more. Stable blood levels?

Also is there any adverse affects with Injecting 10cc oil a week. I'm trying to get hold of Pharmacom 200 primo for less oil required.

I have heard lots of good things about it when run high doses for slow lean muscle gain. Will also use winni or superdrol with tudca as a kicker for a few weeks.

Dry compounds that don't aromatise for lean gains with as low sides a possible is the goal.


----------



## AllKindOfReckless

I remember you mentioning about the 23andme tests a while ago and how certain people have muscle composition that's suited to different types of training. I had the test done and its all interesting and apparently I have the C and T variants which is a common result for elite power athletes.

What should I be adjusting in my training to make the most of this?


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> You should be able to drop at least 3% bodyfat in that 6 weeks depending on how lean you already are. Likely more...
> 
> I recommend 1,000 IU per week, it can be more effective in my observation.


 @ElChapo

Hi mate, Took 500ui HCG Saturday and 500ui this morning. Going to keep doing 2 shots of 500ui a week, how long do you think it will take for the testies to be more plump?


----------



## Jonk891

@El Chapo

What's your view on indole 3 carbinol


----------



## ghost.recon

Whats up people


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> Whats up people


 Good to see you and @ElChapo on here buddy.


----------



## arbffgadm100

For some time now, I've been eating two tins of sardines (around 200g) for lunch (don't ask).

I am aware that there is such a thing as too much omega-3, etc.

My questions are:

How much is too much?

How long can I continue this for, and if indefinitely, should I limit any extra fatty-fish consumption (such as salmon, mackerel, etc, for e.g. dinner)?

Or can I just go crazy and eat oily fish at every meal for the rest of my life and never worry about it?

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What is your view on primo for lean bulk at 800 to 1000mg per week along with test?
> 
> Can it be injected once per week (using several sites to reach the full gram needed?) or better to split up for more. Stable blood levels?
> 
> Also is there any adverse affects with Injecting 10cc oil a week. I'm trying to get hold of Pharmacom 200 primo for less oil required.
> 
> I have heard lots of good things about it when run high doses for slow lean muscle gain. Will also use winni or superdrol with tudca as a kicker for a few weeks.
> 
> Dry compounds that don't aromatise for lean gains with as low sides a possible is the goal.


 In my opinion overrated, a good lean bulk will come down to eating just enough calories to promote lean muscle without spillover to fat and training with progressive overload to encourage growth. It's also harder to find and can be more expensive per gram than other effective AAS. I would still experiment with the primo so you can try it for yourself, you might like it.

10 cc is nothing, i have friends pinning 5 cc per injection.

Test prop is your friend, i have experienced the broscience myself. Test prop really does make you hold less water for whatever reason. I also feel that as a testosterone, you feel it more.


----------



## ElChapo

AllKindOfReckless said:


> I remember you mentioning about the 23andme tests a while ago and how certain people have muscle composition that's suited to different types of training. I had the test done and its all interesting and apparently I have the C and T variants which is a common result for elite power athletes.
> 
> What should I be adjusting in my training to make the most of this?
> 
> View attachment 149863


 ACTN3 is a protein produced by muscles that increase strength and explosiveness. You have one copy so you make half of the ACTN3. Elite powerlifters, weightlifters, sprinters will have two copies of the ACTN3 aka homozygous phenotype.

Have no copies of ACTN3 typically increase endurance and muscle efficiency, you will see this phenotype more commonly in elite marathon runners and endurance athletes.


----------



## ElChapo

ishadow said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate, Took 500ui HCG Saturday and 500ui this morning. Going to keep doing 2 shots of 500ui a week, how long do you think it will take for the testies to be more plump?


 Depends on the length of shutdown and compounds ran before and during HCG usage. Typically 2 weeks will do the trick.


----------



## ishadow

ElChapo said:


> Depends on the length of shutdown and compounds ran before and during HCG usage. Typically 2 weeks will do the trick.


 Thanks pal


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What's your view on indole 3 carbinol


 On paper, it seems to be effective at reducing estrogenic activity in the body. Grant it, these are mostly test tube/in vitro studies.

I have never seen it affect E2 in an actual human being. It actually behaves like an estrogen which binds the receptors and blocks stronger estrogens like estradiol from exerting their effects. Too much will actually have an estrogenic effect. One is better of dosing a more reliable compound like aromasin which is mild and is actually a steroid hormone itself.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> For some time now, I've been eating two tins of sardines (around 200g) for lunch (don't ask).
> 
> I am aware that there is such a thing as too much omega-3, etc.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> How much is too much?
> 
> How long can I continue this for, and if indefinitely, should I limit any extra fatty-fish consumption (such as salmon, mackerel, etc, for e.g. dinner)?
> 
> Or can I just go crazy and eat oily fish at every meal for the rest of my life and never worry about it?
> 
> Thanks!


 I believe the threat of mercury is overblown in the general community, with sardines you are especially unlikely to run into problems. Mercury tends to accumulate in the apex predators who eat tons and tons of the smaller fish. I would not worry about the two tins of sardines.

I know some people who get brain fog and/or depression when overdosing omega 3, but this is rare. I would not worry about any of this.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> In my opinion overrated, a good lean bulk will come down to eating just enough calories to promote lean muscle without spillover to fat and training with progressive overload to encourage growth. It's also harder to find and can be more expensive per gram than other effective AAS. I would still experiment with the primo so you can try it for yourself, you might like it.
> 
> 10 cc is nothing, i have friends pinning 5 cc per injection.
> 
> Test prop is your friend, i have experienced the broscience myself. Test prop really does make you hold less water for whatever reason. I also feel that as a testosterone, you feel it more.


 Thanks for this mate, I'm going to give primo a shot anyhow and see how i get on.

On that note, is Injecting primo 1 time per week ok or is twice weekly more. Optimal?

other than gluteus and ventri glutes what other sites would you say are good for large volumes of oil? Or are the glutes all are are needed for 10cc oil per week.

I don't want to use quads anymore as they are painful, the muscle here is so much harder and sensitive when Injecting...


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> On paper, it seems to be effective at reducing estrogenic activity in the body. Grant it, these are mostly test tube/in vitro studies.
> 
> I have never seen it affect E2 in an actual human being. It actually behaves like an estrogen which binds the receptors and blocks stronger estrogens like estradiol from exerting their effects. Too much will actually have an estrogenic effect. One is better of dosing a more reliable compound like aromasin which is mild and is actually a steroid hormone itself.


 Are there any effective supplements that actually work for estrogen that ain't hormones


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks for this mate, I'm going to give primo a shot anyhow and see how i get on.
> 
> On that note, is Injecting primo 1 time per week ok or is twice weekly more. Optimal?
> 
> other than gluteus and ventri glutes what other sites would you say are good for large volumes of oil? Or are the glutes all are are needed for 10cc oil per week.
> 
> I don't want to use quads anymore as they are painful, the muscle here is so much harder and sensitive when Injecting...


 x 2 week might treat you better, it depends on how quickly you metabolize androgens. I am a quick metabolizer and see a massive difference and blood work and feel when i inject once vs twice a week. For example, my levels on Test E drop very very fast so x 2 a week is optimal.

For large volumes, quads/ventro glute, pecs are effective if you have good muscle development as well. You can do 3-5 cc per side of quad and ventro. Delts and pecs can take a lot of oil as well depending on your development.

I also hate quad pinning, too many nerves and blood vessels. Master ventrogluteal injections, work on the pecs and lateral delts, they are an excellent injection site.

Let us know how the primo run goes.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Are there any effective supplements that actually work for estrogen that ain't hormones


 Calcium glucurate might work but it can affect the metabolism of other hormones. It's not worth it.

The most effective, reliable and safe way to control estrogen activity in the body is with aromatase inhibitors. These are very very safe compounds.


----------



## 18650

ElChapo

I've noticed you've mentioned HMG a few times in your later posts, what benefits does it actually offer?

Are you referring to HMG (Beta-Hydroxy Beta-Methylbutyrate) or Menotropin?

The most promising things I've read mentioned about HMG (Beta-Hydroxy Beta-Methylbutyrate) are possible interactions with myostatin if used in conjunction with other amino acids.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> I believe the threat of mercury is overblown in the general community, with sardines you are especially unlikely to run into problems. Mercury tends to accumulate in the apex predators who eat tons and tons of the smaller fish. I would not worry about the two tins of sardines.
> 
> I know some people who get brain fog and/or depression when overdosing omega 3, but this is rare. I would not worry about any of this.


 Thanks!!

However, I wasn't worried about accumulation of heavy metals and the pollutants. It was simply the potential to massively OD the O3s. Say I upped this to four tins of fish a day (I love it, tbh). Can I do this indefinitely with no increase in risk factors for long-term health. Most producers of supplement caps say 1000mg of combined DHA+EPA is plenty. At four tins of fish, I would be consuming as much as 8-12g a day! Still OK?

Cheers again.


----------



## shratus

@El chapo

Quick question could not find answer anywhere what's the half life of injectable yohimbine ?

it is the same as oral?


----------



## orangeandpears

ElChapo said:


> I believe the threat of mercury is overblown in the general community, with sardines you are especially unlikely to run into problems. Mercury tends to accumulate in the apex predators who eat tons and tons of the smaller fish. I would not worry about the two tins of sardines.
> 
> I know some people who get brain fog and/or depression when overdosing omega 3, but this is rare. I would not worry about any of this.


 what about the arsenic in sardines pretty sure on a Joe Rogan podcast he said he ate a couple cans a day and his doctor told him to stop due to arsenic in his blood


----------



## orangeandpears

arbffgadm100 said:


> For some time now, I've been eating two tins of sardines (around 200g) for lunch (don't ask).
> 
> I am aware that there is such a thing as too much omega-3, etc.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> How much is too much?
> 
> How long can I continue this for, and if indefinitely, should I limit any extra fatty-fish consumption (such as salmon, mackerel, etc, for e.g. dinner)?
> 
> Or can I just go crazy and eat oily fish at every meal for the rest of my life and never worry about it?
> 
> Thanks!


 look into the arsenic in sardines and get your bloods checked if ur eating that many sardines just in case


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> However, I wasn't worried about accumulation of heavy metals and the pollutants. It was simply the potential to massively OD the O3s. Say I upped this to four tins of fish a day (I love it, tbh). Can I do this indefinitely with no increase in risk factors for long-term health. Most producers of supplement caps say 1000mg of combined DHA+EPA is plenty. At four tins of fish, I would be consuming as much as 8-12g a day! Still OK?
> 
> Cheers again.


 Completely fine, omega 3 is a natural product. Cultures who eats lots of fish consume even more. It's one of the reasons why they think okinawa has the longest average life span. Lots of fish and sunlight.


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> ElChapo
> 
> I've noticed you've mentioned HMG a few times in your later posts, what benefits does it actually offer?
> 
> Are you referring to HMG (Beta-Hydroxy Beta-Methylbutyrate) or Menotropin?
> 
> The most promising things I've read mentioned about HMG (Beta-Hydroxy Beta-Methylbutyrate) are possible interactions with myostatin if used in conjunction with other amino acids.


 HMG = menotropin = LH/FSH > HCG (only mimicks the former)

Proven anecdotally and by research to be superior. It should start becoming more available as supply meets demand.


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo

what would be your preferred way to kickstart a tren enth cycle

ive found in the past it can be tricky juggling compounds due to the strength of most orals and tren
i can handles sides no sweat but i often find if my strength takes a big dip due to mistiming of hormones it can really throw the cycles progress


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo high hct seems to be a problem for me. I went back on after a 4-5 months period off back end of last Feb and Have donated 3 times last year. Just had bloods done last week as I'm due back on (been cruising for 8 weeks ) and my hct came back at .53 red blood cells high also.

Is there anyway of keeping this down other than donating?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what would be your preferred way to kickstart a tren enth cycle
> 
> ive found in the past it can be tricky juggling compounds due to the strength of most orals and tren
> i can handles sides no sweat but i often find if my strength takes a big dip due to mistiming of hormones it can really throw the cycles progress


 You could run acetate so it kicks in a couple of weeks sooner. I'm a very slow responder to long esters so i know the feeling.

Acetate and orals will typically really kick in 1.5-2 weeks into cycle, sooner and later for some people.

You could run winstrol for fhe first 4 weeks but if the cycle is shorter, i would run it through the whole cycle.

Winstrol+tren is extremely potent for strength and tissue gains and has a synergystic drying and vascularity effect.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo high hct seems to be a problem for me. I went back on after a 4-5 months period off back end of last Feb and Have donated 3 times last year. Just had bloods done last week as I'm due back on (been cruising for 8 weeks ) and my hct came back at .53 red blood cells high also.
> 
> Is there anyway of keeping this down other than donating?
> 
> Cheers


 What compounds are you typically running? People are sensitive to certain compounds. Even TRT levels of testosterone can cause elevated HCT.

I would not worry if you can keep your HCT at .53 or below on cycle.

Anything higher than .53 and i would look into switching around compounds or donating frequently to control it.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> What compounds are you typically running? People are sensitive to certain compounds. Even TRT levels of testosterone can cause elevated HCT.
> 
> I would not worry if you can keep your HCT at .53 or below on cycle.
> 
> Anything higher than .53 and i would look into switching around compounds or donating frequently to control it.


 I've been B&c since end of Feb

test npp

Test tren winni

test tren npp winni. This cycle ruined me and finished early. Dosage was 30mg sdrol, test 400/300300

ive donated twice since I started this B&c and have been cruising now on 180mg for 8 weeks so not good as I wanted to go back on Monday!

Just to add to the above before I started this B&c my hct was .45. The previous year I'd been on for 18 months with no bloods then Work sent me for a medical whilst cruising. My hct came back at .56. I came off donated done power pct then donated again. 5 months later started the above

i don't really want to come off again but need to keep hct in check. I was due to go back on Monday (just a test and oral short cycle 7-8 weeks oral 4-5) but with hct at .53 going on will only make it go up which is why I asked for the advise.

Cant donate again until mid March but no appointments so booked in for mid April


----------



## SlinMeister

Test tren winny or test deca winny is pure synergy..... If you check what these aas do you will be astonished.

I am only concerned about running Winny for 12 weeks.

Can't imagine the strength and tissue gain from a mild cycle like 750 Sustanon 300 TrenA 350W or 750 Sustanon 300 NPP 350W.

Next year I was thinking to push my growth for 40 weeks straight on just 4iu HGH ed 750 Sust 300 NPP 450 DHB 350 Proviron and concentrate just on WO and FOOD. Do you think that mass gains wise it can be better strategy than do 12w blast 4w cruise? @ghost.recon @El Chapo

Later on, cut for 12w on Test Tren Mast Proviron W


----------



## swole troll

would you be better served trying to control blood lipids on cycle or 'fixing' them post cycle with the likes of niacin, fish oils, red yeast rice extract, citrus bergamot ect

prevention is better than cure but ime tren and orals batter your cholesterol no matter what you do so for someone limited on their supplement budget would it be better using the above on or after such a blast and accepting that your numbers are going to be s**t on cycle no matter what

i take a wide array of proven health supplements as is year round but the likes of niacin and citrus bergamot are a bit steep to be on year round


----------



## AestheticManlet

Quick question I'm currently on a Blast of test only, 1.2g. Pinning 600mg twice a week.

Ive had serious appetite issues for a few weeks now, currently not using orals but I'm also not using an ai. Ai has never agreed with me on lower doses of test always felt bad even on minimal amounts, could it be linked?

Ive been reading up and it seems that high e2 can cause appetite lose - make you feel more content after meals.

Debating trying with an ai again and see if the problem subsides.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Completely fine, omega 3 is a natural product. Cultures who eats lots of fish consume even more. It's one of the reasons why they think okinawa has the longest average life span. Lots of fish and sunlight.


 Muchas gracias, hermano.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I've been on a cruise for a while and am now considering high test only for my next cycle. I'd like to try keeping my bloods as stable as possible, and thus am considering going down the ED or EOD pinning (insulin pin) route.

My question is this: I frequently stay over away from home. I therefore don't like the idea of pissing about carting vials and etc around with me. Assuming I keep the pins (loaded) in a clean, dry, cool-ish, dark place... (a small lunchbox or similar) is there any reason why I can't load up a week's worth of them in one job lot, and use them day by day? Or, even though new pins come in sterile packaging, do they risk becoming contaminated simply by being out of the packaging for up to 7 days (and bear in mind I will be backloading insulin pins so they will be completely exposed to the air for a short time)? I have always been extremely cautious with hygiene when pinning, so if it seems like I am being a total freak; I'm sorry!


----------



## bornagod

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've been on a cruise for a while and am now considering high test only for my next cycle. I'd like to try keeping my bloods as stable as possible, and thus am considering going down the ED or EOD pinning (insulin pin) route.
> 
> My question is this: I frequently stay over away from home. I therefore don't like the idea of pissing about carting vials and etc around with me. Assuming I keep the pins (loaded) in a clean, dry, cool-ish, dark place... (a small lunchbox or similar) is there any reason why I can't load up a week's worth of them in one job lot, and use them day by day? Or, even though new pins come in sterile packaging, do they risk becoming contaminated simply by being out of the packaging for up to 7 days (and bear in mind I will be backloading insulin pins so they will be completely exposed to the air for a short time)? I have always been extremely cautious with hygiene when pinning, so if it seems like I am being a total freak; I'm sorry!


 When using short esters i always back load slin pins, 10 pins at a time in total and ive never had any issues. Im sure as long as your not putting the plunger down on the work top you'll be fine mate. Just back load them as quick as possible and get them in a sealed container


----------



## arbffgadm100

bornagod said:


> When using short esters i always back load slin pins, 10 pins at a time in total and ive never had any issues. Im sure as long as your not putting the plunger down on the work top you'll be fine mate. Just back load them as quick as possible and get them in a sealed container


 Kewl. Thanks!


----------



## Jonk891

@El Chapo @ghost.recon

What's your view on fish oil supplements and NK cell activity. Should we avoid using fish oil supplements and stick to eating fish


----------



## Nara

Thoughts on the positive vs negative use of HGH. Is it worth it?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I've been B&c since end of Feb
> 
> test npp
> 
> Test tren winni
> 
> test tren npp winni. This cycle ruined me and finished early. Dosage was 30mg sdrol, test 400/300300
> 
> ive donated twice since I started this B&c and have been cruising now on 180mg for 8 weeks so not good as I wanted to go back on Monday!
> 
> Just to add to the above before I started this B&c my hct was .45. The previous year I'd been on for 18 months with no bloods then Work sent me for a medical whilst cruising. My hct came back at .56. I came off donated done power pct then donated again. 5 months later started the above
> 
> i don't really want to come off again but need to keep hct in check. I was due to go back on Monday (just a test and oral short cycle 7-8 weeks oral 4-5) but with hct at .53 going on will only make it go up which is why I asked for the advise.
> 
> Cant donate again until mid March but no appointments so booked in for mid April


 double red blood cell donation can shave off .6 off your HCT, very effective. Might be something you can look into.


----------



## GeeHFifteen

Hi @ElChapo,

Assuming E2 is kept under control, would one expect any prolactin sides to occur from combining Deca and Tren?

Doses are 600mg Deca / 500mg Tren per week and 125mg Test E e5d.

Thanks


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo please can you check my blood test mate https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/309801-blood-tests-results-in-after-7-months-of-gear/


----------



## 64rl0

Hi @ElChapo

I'm starting PCT next week, when do you think is the best time to take Nolva and Clomid?

I remember you said Aromasin was best with big meals, is it the same for Nolva and Clomid?

Thanks


----------



## Teol

Hi @El Chapo

I've done two blasts and then cruised at 150mg/week for the past year. I'm in my mid-40s and have no intention of coming off but I have a girlfriend who would like kids in the next 2-3 years. I started taking HCG last summer at 1000iu/week for a few vials. Since January I've been running HCG at that dose every week and thought I'd continue doing that.

I saw a Dylan Gemelli video, and he said running HCG all the time would be the worst thing you could do. He didn't explain in what way (and I think he's full of s#it sometimes) but wanted to see if I was doing more harm then good by running it all the time. If I'm not coming off for at least 2 years, should I run HCG every single week?


----------



## ishadow

Teol said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> I've done two blasts and then cruised at 150mg/week for the past year. I'm in my mid-40s and have no intention of coming off but I have a girlfriend who would like kids in the next 2-3 years. I started taking HCG last summer at 1000iu/week for a few vials. Since January I've been running HCG at that dose every week and thought I'd continue doing that.
> 
> I saw a Dylan Gemelli video, and he said running HCG all the time would be the worst thing you could do. He didn't explain in what way (and I think he's full of s#it sometimes) but wanted to see if I was doing more harm then good by running it all the time. If I'm not coming off for at least 2 years, should I run HCG every single week?


 Look into HMG bud, HCG is used when coming off, HMG is used for fertility.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/258188-fertility-help/?do=embed


----------



## Teol

Thanks @ishadow that had a lot of good info. I didn't watch the video 'cause I'm at work, but most of that looks like proper baby-making protocols.

Is it a good idea to do HMG/HCG every week while I'm on, say for the next two years, or should they be cycled?


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've been on a cruise for a while and am now considering high test only for my next cycle. I'd like to try keeping my bloods as stable as possible, and thus am considering going down the ED or EOD pinning (insulin pin) route.
> 
> My question is this: I frequently stay over away from home. I therefore don't like the idea of pissing about carting vials and etc around with me. Assuming I keep the pins (loaded) in a clean, dry, cool-ish, dark place... (a small lunchbox or similar) is there any reason why I can't load up a week's worth of them in one job lot, and use them day by day? Or, even though new pins come in sterile packaging, do they risk becoming contaminated simply by being out of the packaging for up to 7 days (and bear in mind I will be backloading insulin pins so they will be completely exposed to the air for a short time)? I have always been extremely cautious with hygiene when pinning, so if it seems like I am being a total freak; I'm sorry!


 No, you can do that. Many TRT doctors preload syringes for their patients. Even i do it when i get lazy.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.recon
> 
> What's your view on fish oil supplements and NK cell activity. Should we avoid using fish oil supplements and stick to eating fish


 If you can, i would always try to get your omega-3 from fish, if not, stick to a highly reputable source like carlson's or nordic naturals. There's a lot of cheap, rancid garbage out there.

x 2-3 servings of fatty fish per week is enough to reap the benefits of omega 3's.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> Thoughts on the positive vs negative use of HGH. Is it worth it?


 Benefits to fertility (very important for many people), preventing testicular atrophy and can preserve ejaculate volume. Anecdotally, some claim it enhances their libido and mood.

It does increase E2 in many people, and some people do feel worse on it.

If you don't care about fertility or testicular volume, you don't need it.


----------



## ElChapo

GeeHFifteen said:


> Hi @ElChapo,
> 
> Assuming E2 is kept under control, would one expect any prolactin sides to occur from combining Deca and Tren?
> 
> Doses are 600mg Deca / 500mg Tren per week and 125mg Test E e5d.
> 
> Thanks


 These sides aren't caused by prolactin, contrary to popular belief. Get bloodwork on these compounds and you will see.

The issue with libido and gyno can occur even if you don't run testosterone. Some individuals are very very sensitive to 19-nors gyno. The positive side is that you can always reverse any gyno you get with raloxifene or nolvadex.

Cabergoline can relieve some sides like libido, mood issues, etc, but it's not through lowering elevated dopamine but from increasing dopamine. (it's an agonist)


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo please can you check my blood test mate https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/309801-blood-tests-results-in-after-7-months-of-gear/


 Done, you have some issues to address.


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I'm starting PCT next week, when do you think is the best time to take Nolva and Clomid?
> 
> I remember you said Aromasin was best with big meals, is it the same for Nolva and Clomid?
> 
> Thanks


 Nolva/clomid can be taken anytime. Aromasin is soluble in fat and so is raloxifene, so fat enhances absorption by roughly 30%.

Nolva and clomid are not, so take them whenever.


----------



## ElChapo

Teol said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> I've done two blasts and then cruised at 150mg/week for the past year. I'm in my mid-40s and have no intention of coming off but I have a girlfriend who would like kids in the next 2-3 years. I started taking HCG last summer at 1000iu/week for a few vials. Since January I've been running HCG at that dose every week and thought I'd continue doing that.
> 
> I saw a Dylan Gemelli video, and he said running HCG all the time would be the worst thing you could do. He didn't explain in what way (and I think he's full of s#it sometimes) but wanted to see if I was doing more harm then good by running it all the time. If I'm not coming off for at least 2 years, should I run HCG every single week?


 He is full of s**t. The guy is a sarm peddler and he sells those bullshit PCT products like HCGenerate (garbage).

You can run HCG year round forever, it's mimicking your LH/FSH that you would naturally be producing anyways with a healthy HPTA.


----------



## ElChapo

Teol said:


> Thanks @ishadow that had a lot of good info. I didn't watch the video 'cause I'm at work, but most of that looks like proper baby-making protocols.
> 
> Is it a good idea to do HMG/HCG every week while I'm on, say for the next two years, or should they be cycled?


 If you can obtain and afford HMG, add it to your HCG protocol at 75 IU x 2-x 3 per week. It is identical to your natural LH/FSH so it's better than HCG at stimulating spermatogenesis. It is harder to find and a lot more expensive that HCG.

If you want, you can run it a month or two before you start trying for a baby as a booster shot for fertility. Many people have knocked up their women while running tren and no HCG, so you should be fine barring any pre-existing fertility problems.


----------



## Armitage Shanks

@ElChapo I sometimes take DHEA and to me I seem to feel the benefits (perhaps all in my head). The net has conflicting reports on DHEA.

What is your opinion ?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Armitage Shanks said:


> @ElChapo I sometimes take DHEA and to me I seem to feel the benefits (perhaps all in my head). The net has conflicting reports on DHEA.
> 
> What is your opinion ?
> 
> Cheers


 If there is a deficiency there can definitely be a benefit. A lot of people have low DHEA levels and it's a pretty important hormone. Bringing up low levels even though in range can definitely help.

It can aromatize so be careful.


----------



## stewedw

Hi again @ElChapo

1) can letro reverse gyno, if so do you have studies to say so as a mate says it won't and I've seen first hand it has in three people.

2) anavar or winny for chics and at what doseage?

3) bpc-157 for healing properties, fact or fiction as I've heard both?

Cheers again, excellent thread. Have you consider writing an ebook and maybe putting a list of these questions with the answers, and a list of the drugs, stack, uses and doses? I for one would but it.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> Done, you have some issues to address.


 Thanks, I have a new test do you think things are looking any better? do i still have the anaemia as i feel weak and tired all the time, i haven't had any illness/virus as far as i know

thanks again much appreciated


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Hi again @ElChapo
> 
> 1) can letro reverse gyno, if so do you have studies to say so as a mate says it won't and I've seen first hand it has in three people.
> 
> 2) anavar or winny for chics and at what doseage?
> 
> 3) bpc-157 for healing properties, fact or fiction as I've heard both?
> 
> Cheers again, excellent thread. Have you consider writing an ebook and maybe putting a list of these questions with the answers, and a list of the drugs, stack, uses and doses? I for one would but it.


 It usually does not work to reverse gyno and it's very harsh. The studies were done on rodents. Myself and others have had zero success with pharma letrozole and only nasty sides like huge decrease in strength, libido, energy and mood. Raloxifene and nolvadex are far more effective with very little to no sides.

Var and winstrol are both effective. As low as 5 mg-20 mg daily depending on goals and experience level. A recreational female lifter who just wants to look tighter/instagram look versus a girl who wants to compete in fitness division and has been lifting for 5 years will have very different protocols/dosages. Winstrol will dry you out more and is more effective per mg.

BPC-157 is awesome in rodents, but doesn't have any human evidence, lots of potential here but not enough data to say for sure yet.

Happy to share information and keeps my mind sharp and helps me refresh all my knowledge, i do prefer this forum format to an E-book but it's a great idea. @ghost.recon might do one with me in the future. We've picked up a ton of useful info over the years backed by personal experiences from ourselves and friends and backed by science. Ralox+HMG are really coming to light now which is benefiting so many people. There's a lot more out there.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> Thanks, I have a new test do you think things are looking any better? do i still have the anaemia as i feel weak and tired all the time, i haven't had any illness/virus as far as i know
> 
> thanks again much appreciated
> 
> View attachment 151195
> 
> 
> View attachment 151197


 Your HCT went up a bit. Your ferritin levels were very low as well. Are you supplementing iron now? You need it.

Did you donate blood or bleed a lot recently? This can be cause by internal bleeding like ulcers or hemorrhoids. Gut issues like IBS, crohn's disease or celiacs can impair iron absorption as well.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> Your HCT went up a bit. Your ferritin levels were very low as well. Are you supplementing iron now? You need it.
> 
> Did you donate blood or bleed a lot recently? This can be cause by internal bleeding like ulcers or hemorrhoids. Gut issues like IBS, crohn's disease or celiacs can impair iron absorption as well.


 I have not got ferritin tested again in the second test (dont know why GP/lab didn't include it again) but should I assume that it won't have increased and start supplementing iron?

I have never donated blood in my life or lost any substantial amount of blood. as far as I know I haven't had ulcers or haemorrhoids.

What would you recommend I can do to treat my anaemia I feel weak and tired all the time even when I sleep 10 hours I want a nap at lunch time and I feel very dizzy a lot etc.

When I spoke to my GP about my anaemia she told me that my blood results were normal and I have nothing to worry about. c**t!


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo whats your thoughts on longer term insulin use?

3-4 months of rapid acting insulin post workout only usage on training days only (4 out of 7 days per week)

much risk for insulin resistance on infrequent longer term use?


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> I have not got ferritin tested again in the second test (dont know why GP/lab didn't include it again) but should I assume that it won't have increased and start supplementing iron?
> 
> I have never donated blood in my life or lost any substantial amount of blood. as far as I know I haven't had ulcers or haemorrhoids.
> 
> What would you recommend I can do to treat my anaemia I feel weak and tired all the time even when I sleep 10 hours I want a nap at lunch time and I feel very dizzy a lot etc.
> 
> When I spoke to my GP about my anaemia she told me that my blood results were normal and I have nothing to worry about. c**t!


 Take iron, i recommend Ferrochel aka iron biglycinate. It's the most bioavailable form and easy on the stomach.

Testosterone will usually increase the HCT. Yeah, if you're not dying, doctors typically don't give a s**t unless you have a very good one.


----------



## Pancake'

If you B&C for many years and decided to come off,

but didn't want to do a full pct, anything else one could do?

I dislike the idea of ever using serms, especially clomid, the vision problems are

pretty scary.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> If you B&C for many years and decided to come off,
> 
> but didn't want to do a full pct, anything else one could do?
> 
> I dislike the idea of ever using serms, especially clomid, the vision problems are
> 
> pretty scary.


 It would not bode well for you honestly, even PCT would hardly guarantee recovery. You most likely would need TRT, but anything is possible.

Recovery without PCT would take at least 6 month to 1 year of low T levels with no guarantee of it ever bouncing back to normal.

You're likely better off on HRT or trying PCT.


----------



## SlinMeister

Pancake' said:


> If you B&C for many years and decided to come off,
> 
> but didn't want to do a full pct, anything else one could do?
> 
> I dislike the idea of ever using serms, especially clomid, the vision problems are
> 
> pretty scary.


 Just go HRT... 300 TestE 525 Proviron 3iu HGH ed


----------



## Pancake'

SlinMeister said:


> Just go HRT... 300 TestE 525 Proviron 3iu HGH ed


 That isn't true HRT? :lol:


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> It would not bode well for you honestly, even PCT would hardly guarantee recovery. You most likely would need TRT, but anything is possible.
> 
> Recovery without PCT would take at least 6 month to 1 year of low T levels with no guarantee of it ever bouncing back to normal.
> 
> You're likely better off on HRT or trying PCT.


 I have heard of a protocol, consisting of a fair amount of HCG as long as you B&C for,

And then let's say, when you're done, you then proceed to use 200mcg of Triptorelin?

And their should be no need for serms involved.

Are you at all familiar with Triptorelin?


----------



## SlinMeister

Pancake' said:


> That isn't true HRT? :lol:


 At Puberty levels yes


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> No, you can do that. Many TRT doctors preload syringes for their patients. Even i do it when i get lazy.


 Muchísimas gracias, hombre.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Can you do away with HCG is you are using HMG, or do you need both. If you were to only use one, which would it be, and at one dose? If you used both, same question (I appreciate that it varies greatly but some ranges would be useful to work with).

Thanks so much.


----------



## Pancake'

When are you done growing? Structure wise.


----------



## dtmiscool

Next blast is 750 test e and 500 npp a week. Split over mon/thurs.

looking to add an oral in for the first few weeks.

Still debating whetger to run superdrol at 20mg a day or winstrol at 50mg a day.

Any experience or opinion on which one would be better at both of those doses?

my thought was winny would work well as the npp would keep my joints lubricated.

Thoughts on what one you'd run at the start and why?? Will be running the other one at the end also.

So start with winny end with sdrol or vice versa.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I have heard of a protocol, consisting of a fair amount of HCG as long as you B&C for,
> 
> And then let's say, when you're done, you then proceed to use 200mcg of Triptorelin?
> 
> And their should be no need for serms involved.
> 
> Are you at all familiar with Triptorelin?


 Triptorelin looks great on paper since it can stimulate the HPTA at it's highest point (the pituitary gland), but i would not mess with it until we have more data or you want to experiment.

We need more bodybuilder guinea pigs to try it and hopefully some scientific papers. Otherwise, if your HPTA is already fried or you want to try it, give it a shot. It is less available than most ancilallaries. We should be getting more anecdotal data soon as a lot of people are starting to experiment with trip.

The difficult part about reversing infertility & hypogonadism is reversing the atrophy of the leydig and sertoli cells. When guys first start up hcg or hmg they have a hard time with conception until that atrophy begins to reverse itself via stimulation from gonadotropins(hcg/fsh/lh).

The degree of atrophy is contingent on hormones used (19nors/trest are the wosrt), length of use, genetics and prior testicular health (some guys already have suboptimal T and fertility before cycling and don't even know it)


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> At Puberty levels yes





Pancake' said:


> I have heard of a protocol, consisting of a fair amount of HCG as long as you B&C for,
> 
> And then let's say, when you're done, you then proceed to use 200mcg of Triptorelin?
> 
> And their should be no need for serms involved.
> 
> Are you at all familiar with Triptorelin?


 150 mg legitimate test e or c will put most guys at puberty levels (800-1,000 ng/dL), some need more/some less.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> When are you done growing? Structure wise.


 It depends on genetics, how late you start puberty, and other factors but latest for most men would be age 25 and that's rare. Most men are fully grown before that, as early as 16 for some.

Height growth is stopped by stimulation of the osteocytes(bone cells) by Estrogen. AI can actually increase the time people keep growing and men born with a severe genetic Estrogen deficiency can grow past age 25.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Can you do away with HCG is you are using HMG, or do you need both. If you were to only use one, which would it be, and at one dose? If you used both, same question (I appreciate that it varies greatly but some ranges would be useful to work with).
> 
> Thanks so much.


 HMG is more effective.

75 IU x 3 per week for HMG, 500 IU x 2 pw for HCG.

You can use both together


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> HMG is more effective.
> 
> 75 IU x 3 per week for HMG, 500 IU x 2 pw for HCG.
> 
> You can use both together


 Cool. Might try a few weeks on HMG then and see if I notice anything different. Then a few weeks on both, and judge whether it's worth it going forward. Thanks!!


----------



## ElChapo

dtmiscool said:


> Next blast is 750 test e and 500 npp a week. Split over mon/thurs.
> 
> looking to add an oral in for the first few weeks.
> 
> Still debating whetger to run superdrol at 20mg a day or winstrol at 50mg a day.
> 
> Any experience or opinion on which one would be better at both of those doses?
> 
> my thought was winny would work well as the npp would keep my joints lubricated.
> 
> Thoughts on what one you'd run at the start and why?? Will be running the other one at the end also.
> 
> So start with winny end with sdrol or vice versa.


 Winstrol will dry you out more, superdrol will give you a fuller, more pumped look without water retention. The look is different, both are effective for mass and strength. Very good compounds. Either would be great so its up to you.

I love winstrol, best strength gains and sucks water out of your body like nothing else. Superdrol is very good.

I would run an oral for 6-8 weeks at least. Either is fine to start with, but winstrol will make you dryer. So maybe winstrol at the end.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo why does the initial breaking the skin for quads injections hurt so much more than anywhere else? I can stick a blue in my delts or triceps without even feeling it going in, but a slin pin breaking the skin over my quads causes a nasty sharp pain every time

is glutes the same? never done glutes before


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo why does the initial breaking the skin for quads injections hurt so much more than anywhere else? I can stick a blue in my delts or triceps without even feeling it going in, but a slin pin breaking the skin over my quads causes a nasty sharp pain every time
> 
> is glutes the same? never done glutes before


 More nerves and blood vessels in the legs than other injection sites.

Glutes are a lot better and pretty desensitized, due to anatomical differences and the fact that we are always sitting down numbs down the area. Glutes are harder to reach though.

I always recommend ventrogluteal aka side glutes.

I avoid quads for the same reason as you, i sometimes get the pain when first injecting. Some people have more nerves in the legs than others.


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> More nerves and blood vessels in the legs than other injection sites.
> 
> Glutes are a lot better and pretty desensitized, due to anatomical differences and the fact that we are always sitting down numbs down the area. Glutes are harder to reach though.
> 
> I always recommend ventrogluteal aka side glutes.
> 
> I avoid quads for the same reason as you, i sometimes get the pain when first injecting. Some people have more nerves in the legs than others.


 Do you know of a decent guide to find the ventro myself without having to rotate my wrist to an impossible angle. I always get nervous I'll end up in the wrong place.


----------



## Pancake'

For brute strength, if/when required in real life,

which should you focus on more out of pressing vs pulling strength?

Granted, you want both to be as optimal,

but would pulling strength hold more benefit?

Just something someone said to me, I should be doing more pulling than pressing work.

Got me thinking, what would benefit the most?

when you really required strength. And type of strength.


----------



## stewedw

Should individuals avoid Winstrol if they have any injuries? A mates got what he thinks is tendonitis on his right forearm (can't remember if it's golfers elbow or tennis elbow that his physio said) but his summer cut starts mid March and is usually test tren winny. I said to swap the winny for masteron as winny drys out your joints as surely this would be negative for him?

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Do you know of a decent guide to find the ventro myself without having to rotate my wrist to an impossible angle. I always get nervous I'll end up in the wrong place.


 Ventrogluteal muscle


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> For brute strength, if/when required in real life,
> 
> which should you focus on more out of pressing vs pulling strength?
> 
> Granted, you want both to be as optimal,
> 
> but would pulling strength hold more benefit?
> 
> Just something someone said to me, I should be doing more pulling than pressing work.
> 
> Got me thinking, what would benefit the most?
> 
> when you really required strength. And type of strength.


 Pulling is probably used more often for lifting things but you need balance. Both are essential. Deadlift trains pushing with legs and pulling with back and torso.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Should individuals avoid Winstrol if they have any injuries? A mates got what he thinks is tendonitis on his right forearm (can't remember if it's golfers elbow or tennis elbow that his physio said) but his summer cut starts mid March and is usually test tren winny. I said to swap the winny for masteron as winny drys out your joints as surely this would be negative for him?
> 
> Cheers.


 If he's ran winstrol before, does he get any joint issues or stiffness. Some people don't get any issues. I would keep winstrol if he's never had issues with it. It's much more effective than masteron by far. It dries you out more, increases strength and tissue. Masteron is almost purely cosmetic with a tiny bump in strength.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> If he's ran winstrol before, does he get any joint issues or stiffness. Some people don't get any issues. I would keep winstrol if he's never had issues with it. It's much more effective than masteron by far. It dries you out more, increases strength and tissue. Masteron is almost purely cosmetic with a tiny bump in strength.


 Nope, same as me. Loves winny and hasn't had any negatives from it before,no dry joints etc. Sometimes flaky scalp but I told him to use nizarol twice a week and keep an eye on it.

Cheers.


----------



## wilko1985

hi @ElChapo

Just had some bloods back from a 16 week cruise.

Test levels are hugely above what I thought they would be, so I can drop the dose massively (180mg per week) after my next blast.

I noticed my prolactin is way above ref range. Im assuming Caber will be good use to get this down. Can you recommend a weekly dose for these levels please or anything else to help get it down?

(edit). PS. I have also had a high ALP reading (280nmol) for about 3 years now. The drs are stumped. With the knowledge my prolactin is high, could this be a potential sign of Hyperprolactinemia?

The test was taken using IV so am confident of the levels.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> hi @ElChapo
> 
> Just had some bloods back from a 16 week cruise.
> 
> Test levels are hugely above what I thought they would be, so I can drop the dose massively (180mg per week) after my next blast.
> 
> I noticed my prolactin is way above ref range. Im assuming Caber will be good use to get this down. Can you recommend a weekly dose for these levels please or anything else to help get it down?
> 
> (edit). PS. I have also had a high ALP reading (280nmol) for about 3 years now. The drs are stumped. With the knowledge my prolactin is high, could this be a potential sign of Hyperprolactinemia?
> 
> The test was taken using IV so am confident of the levels.
> 
> View attachment 151339


 The prolactin isn't high enough that i would suspect prolactinoma.

You seem to possibly have subclinical hypothyroidism, suboptimal thyroid function can cause elevated prolactin levels. Your Free T4 is on the lower end of the range and your TSH is over 3.

.25 mg of cabergoline x 2 per week should do the trick and bring prolactin back into range. Even .25 mg total might do the trick.

The elevated ALP may not be a cause for concern.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Nope, same as me. Loves winny and hasn't had any negatives from it before,no dry joints etc. Sometimes flaky scalp but I told him to use nizarol twice a week and keep an eye on it.
> 
> Cheers.


 Nizoral is great, you can get a script for pharma grade from your doctor for dandruff.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo do you know how long you can take Diphenhydramine safely for sleep? label says no more than 2 weeks but i think this is wrong as i've done 3 weeks before and had no noticeable side effects


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> The prolactin isn't high enough that i would suspect prolactinoma.
> 
> You seem to possibly have subclinical hypothyroidism, suboptimal thyroid function can cause elevated prolactin levels. Your Free T4 is on the lower end of the range and your TSH is over 3.
> 
> .25 mg of cabergoline x 2 per week should do the trick and bring prolactin back into range. Even .25 mg total might do the trick.
> 
> The elevated ALP may not be a cause for concern.


 Awesome. Thanks elchapo. I've got some on order.

I've been cutting since January (kept carbs at about 360g). Could that down regulate the thyroid? Free thyroxine was about 16 pml last test in October. Should I keep an eye on this moving forward?


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo do you know how long you can take Diphenhydramine safely for sleep? label says no more than 2 weeks but i think this is wrong as i've done 3 weeks before and had no noticeable side effects


 It can lead to dependence


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> Awesome. Thanks elchapo. I've got some on order.
> 
> I've been cutting since January (kept carbs at about 360g). Could that down regulate the thyroid? Free thyroxine was about 16 pml last test in October. Should I keep an eye on this moving forward?


 360 grams of carbs is plenty to keep thyroid function running and cutting for 8 weeks won't downregulate it too much either. Typically it's T3 and not T4 that takes a dive on a cut.

Keep an eye out for hypothyroid symptoms (difficulty getting up in the mornings, feeling cold, fatigue, depression, facial puffyness etc)


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Nizoral is great, you can get a script for pharma grade from your doctor for dandruff.


 Can you actually get stronger than 2% prescribed?

I have heard of their being 5% Nizoral or perhaps

even more potent shampoo?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Can you actually get stronger than 2% prescribed?
> 
> I have heard of their being 5% Nizoral or perhaps
> 
> even more potent shampoo?


 Never heard of that. 2% is plenty strong. Leave it in your hair for at least 5 minutes in the shower. x 2-3 pw or daily.


----------



## Chelsea

ElChapo said:


> 360 grams of carbs is plenty to keep thyroid function running and cutting for 8 weeks won't downregulate it too much either. Typically it's T3 and not T4 that takes a dive on a cut.
> 
> Keep an eye out for hypothyroid symptoms (difficulty getting up in the mornings, feeling cold, fatigue, depression, facial puffyness etc)


 If you are feeling these symptoms on a cut, what would you recommend taking, 25mcg? 50?


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo have this issue that concerns me... My FT4 is always tanked since 2y and I don't know why....

Since 8w I am on 350 Sust 200 MastE 200 DHB ew 4iu Norditropin (2/1/1)Ed 25mcg Tiromel Ed.

Bloods come at:

FT3 3,24 pg/ml

FT4 0,14 mg/dl

TSH 2,25 mUI/L

Do I suffer from hypothyroidism? Because T3 and TSH looks ok...


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> If you are feeling these symptoms on a cut, what would you recommend taking, 25mcg? 50?


 25 mcg T3 will do the trick to get your T3 levels up to normal. It will help mitigate the metabolic downregulation from your cut. 50 mcg is good but you can start to get flat if you don't keep your carbs high.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo have this issue that concerns me... My FT4 is always tanked since 2y and I don't know why....
> 
> Since 8w I am on 350 Sust 200 MastE 200 DHB ew 4iu Norditropin (2/1/1)Ed 25mcg Tiromel Ed.
> 
> Bloods come at:
> 
> FT3 3,24 pg/ml
> 
> FT4 0,14 mg/dl
> 
> TSH 2,25 mUI/L
> 
> Do I suffer from hypothyroidism? Because T3 and TSH looks ok...


 Your T4 is low because you are running T3. Taking exogenous T3 will shutdown your own thyroid production. So your T3 is normal because you are replacing it.

I would throw in 100 mcg of T4 to bring your T4 levels back to normal/optimal. Contrary to popular belief, T4 DOES have metabolic effects and is a very important hormone independent of it's conversion to T3. Some functions require T4 directly or it's conversion to T3 in the cell. This can't happen with T3 only.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Your T4 is low because you are running T3. Taking exogenous T3 will shutdown your own thyroid production. So your T3 is normal because you are replacing it.
> 
> I would throw in 100 mcg of T4 to bring your T4 levels back to normal/optimal.


 Perfect I will redo bloods in 2 weeks on T4.... Will be it enough to raise FT4? Or should I wait more?


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I rarely see winstrol in stacks with nandrolone.

*1.* Is there a good reason for this, or no?

If there's no messy interaction, and mass is the goal, why do we not see more of this?

I would hazard a guess that for most people's tolerances, nandrolone is better than tren for mass, because they can run more of the compound with less sides. Since we know that progressive training (lifting heavier weights) is important for development, why do people not run winstrol (well known for rapid increases in strength) alongside e.g. test/NPP stacks to maximise the amount of hypertrophy they could obtain?

For example:

When my cut is finished, could I run something like:

300 test

300 npp

100 winstrol

For 12 weeks (with TUCDA at 250mg/day)?

*2*. Equally, with the retention of lean mass being highly desirable during a cut, could I not run the same thing for a cut?

Gracias por adelantado.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Perfect I will redo bloods in 2 weeks on T4.... Will be it enough to raise FT4? Or should I wait more?


 4-6 weeks to reach maximum T4 concentration from oral use. 4 weeks minimum.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> 4-6 weeks to reach maximum T4 concentration from oral use. 4 weeks minimum.


 Perfect by the half of April I will redo bloods!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I rarely see winstrol in stacks with nandrolone.
> 
> *1.* Is there a good reason for this, or no?
> 
> If there's no messy interaction, and mass is the goal, why do we not see more of this?
> 
> I would hazard a guess that for most people's tolerances, nandrolone is better than tren for mass, because they can run more of the compound with less sides. Since we know that progressive training (lifting heavier weights) is important for development, why do people not run winstrol (well known for rapid increases in strength) alongside e.g. test/NPP stacks to maximise the amount of hypertrophy they could obtain?
> 
> For example:
> 
> When my cut is finished, could I run something like:
> 
> 300 test
> 
> 300 npp
> 
> 100 winstrol
> 
> For 12 weeks (with TUCDA at 250mg/day)?
> 
> *2*. Equally, with the retention of lean mass being highly desirable during a cut, could I not run the same thing for a cut?
> 
> Gracias por adelantado.


 Most people underestimate winstrol's strength increasing and tissue building effect due to it's exception effect on conditioning. Most only run it 2-4 weeks, no AAS is going to reach it's full potential in that amount of time.

Yes, that's a solid stack.

It would be very very effective for a cut. Even 150/150 test/NPP + 100 mg winstrol will do fine and you will be dryer.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo planning a 15 week test e tren e cycle with winny from weeks 1-7 and 11-18 at 100mg if i run TUDCA + nac from the start up to pct is this alright?


----------



## Pancake'

Think this would be ideal post workout?


----------



## SlinMeister

Pancake' said:


> Think this would be ideal post workout?
> 
> View attachment 151503


 Just eat rice, fruit purea and whey shake.... Why that ?


----------



## Pancake'

SlinMeister said:


> Just eat rice, fruit purea and whey shake.... Why that ?


 Vending machine at gym stocks them.


----------



## drwae

SlinMeister said:


> Just eat rice, fruit purea and whey shake.... Why that ?


 Maybe he's Jamaican lol


----------



## SlinMeister

drwae said:


> Maybe he's Jamaican lol


 Trust me mate... Throw down a whey shake then eat, 2 apple pureas mixed with basmati rice. It tastes really good!


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Most people underestimate winstrol's strength increasing and tissue building effect due to it's exception effect on conditioning. Most only run it 2-4 weeks, no AAS is going to reach it's full potential in that amount of time.
> 
> Yes, that's a solid stack.
> 
> It would be very very effective for a cut. Even 150/150 test/NPP + 100 mg winstrol will do fine and you will be dryer.


 Amazing. Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo planning a 15 week test e tren e cycle with winny from weeks 1-7 and 11-18 at 100mg if i run TUDCA + nac from the start up to pct is this alright?


 Maybe, that's a long time on 100 mg of winstrol daily. At 50 mg it would be fine. You can go for it and you should be fine. Just know that's a lot of winstrol to be taking for that long, even with tudca.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Think this would be ideal post workout?
> 
> View attachment 151503


 Ideal post-workout in my opinion is whey protein+favorite cereal in milk.

Big insulin spike, lots of protein+carbs. Most anabolic meal. Nothing fancy.


----------



## orangeandpears

ElChapo said:


> Maybe, that's a long time on 100 mg of winstrol daily. At 50 mg it would be fine. You can go for it and you should be fine. Just know that's a lot of winstrol to be taking for that long, even with tudca.


 mm might split it then 3.5weeks 50mg and 3.5weeks 100mg cheers


----------



## Whoremoan1

wtf!? this is still going?! for some reason i thought el chapo dissapeared?!?! this is the best news ever... i literally just came back to re read

will be back with a shitlaod of questions ))))


----------



## Whoremoan1

sorry if these questions have been asked already,, still halfway through thread 

1. any benefits of using primo e instead test e? using test e at 750mg so what dose would suffice for primo e to get similar effects in growth while avoiding water?

2. tren e vs tri-tren during a lean bulk ? what would you suggest?

3. ive heard eq effects gaba in the brain, would supplmenting with 5htp help ?

4. taking full dose orals pre workout as opposed to split throughout day a better approach? for instance taking 40-50 dbol 2 hours before workout so we get the spike in estrogen, and use it to our benefit (in a way like humalog) that way were not keeping estrogen peaking all through out the day if we split doses, the test e in background will be doing this anyway ...

5. for 5'10 man, on average what is the max kg he can get up to at 6% bf without hgh ?

6. slin without hgh ... is this just a waste of time or can it done; putting very minimal fat on

7. berberine or metformin (which is best) for a lean bulk , without slin and or gh in the picture.... and also the best way to go about it ? can i also take in more calories than usual as it will be shuttling nutrients much better ?

8. for a lean bulking starting at 86kg 6%bf how much weight should i look to increase weekly, trying to avoid fat gain

9. also with the above, how much should i gradually increase macros each week ? im at 2700 cals now, maintence is 3200.... i already have proteins and fats locked in (pro: 258 fats:86 carbs: 220) , so im pretty much just increasing carbs , but at what frequency and how much ?

10. for lean bulk... test e/ eq/ tren e(or A or tri tren) VS test e/NPP/tren E (or A or tri tren)

11. for rebound , oral wise , would you prefer ..... dbol (40mg) + winny (50mg) or winny (50mg)+ sdrol (10mg) or adrol (50mg)+winny (50mg) <<all tapered up weekly

12. ive heard tudca is acually bad while taking with orals,, and it should be used AFTER discontinuation of orals... is this true ?

again extremely sorry if these have been asked ,, still making my way through thread ,,, really appreciate your help


----------



## superdrol

Whoremoan1 said:


> sorry if these questions have been asked already,, still halfway through thread
> 
> 1. any benefits of using primo e instead test e? using test e at 750mg so what dose would suffice for primo e to get similar effects in growth while avoiding water?
> 
> 2. tren e vs tri-tren during a lean bulk ? what would you suggest?
> 
> 3. ive heard eq effects gaba in the brain, would supplmenting with 5htp help ?
> 
> 4. taking full dose orals pre workout as opposed to split throughout day a better approach? for instance taking 40-50 dbol 2 hours before workout so we get the spike in estrogen, and use it to our benefit (in a way like humalog) that way were not keeping estrogen peaking all through out the day if we split doses, the test e in background will be doing this anyway ...
> 
> 5. for 5'10 man, on average what is the max kg he can get up to at 6% bf without hgh ?
> 
> 6. slin without hgh ... is this just a waste of time or can it done; putting very minimal fat on
> 
> 7. berberine or metformin (which is best) for a lean bulk , without slin and or gh in the picture.... and also the best way to go about it ? can i also take in more calories than usual as it will be shuttling nutrients much better ?
> 
> 8. for a lean bulking starting at 86kg 6%bf how much weight should i look to increase weekly, trying to avoid fat gain
> 
> 9. also with the above, how much should i gradually increase macros each week ? im at 2700 cals now, maintence is 3200.... i already have proteins and fats locked in (pro: 258 fats:86 carbs: 220) , so im pretty much just increasing carbs , but at what frequency and how much ?
> 
> 10. for lean bulk... test e/ eq/ tren e(or A or tri tren) VS test e/NPP/tren E (or A or tri tren)


 You do know that at 6% body fat your nearly dead and you can't keep that level for longer than days without serious negative health issues, I'm not gonna ask for pics as you won't be 6% at 86kg sorry

how did you arrive at 6% body fat bud?? Scales?? Unless it was a dexa or water weighing your simply not 6%


----------



## Whoremoan1

superdrol said:


> You do know that at 6% body fat your nearly dead and you can't keep that level for longer than days without serious negative health issues, I'm not gonna ask for pics as you won't be 6% at 86kg sorry
> 
> how did you arrive at 6% body fat bud?? Scales?? Unless it was a dexa or water weighing your simply not 6%


 ill post a few but i cant show too much especially with unique tatts.... and tbh i was just told off an iffb pro and calibre test?,,granted i did use a diuretic on that day, these pics were a week before ...also a bit of hair,, i looked more tight skinned when i shaved


----------



## superdrol

At 6% I'd expect striations, but hats off buddy, that's pretty damn lean, makes a change to actually get someone say they are something and be not far off ??

Your similar to someone else off here who was prob 8-9% I'd think


----------



## Whoremoan1

superdrol said:


> At 6% I'd expect striations, but hats off buddy, that's pretty damn lean, makes a change to actually get someone say they are something and be not far off ??
> 
> Your similar to someone else off here who was prob 8-9% I'd think


 really appreciate your nice words brother it really means alot,,, id really love to put up a pic of my abs more so, i had veins running up them , but if i put up im sketchy as l had once before and a co worker saw it,, i had to bullshit my way out of it as if i get caught by boss on steroid forum id get fired and i have kids and wife to provide for ... i honestly do think i was at 6% bf even if it was just that day lol.... but yes i did feel like crap to say the least haaha


----------



## stewedw

Looking lean. Back and quad pics often show better level than abs ime, regardless of percentage this or that, you can safely say its lean as fk. I'm sure you are in an excellent position to lean bulk or do a two week prime and take advantage of the insulin sensitivity and bulk bulk bulk lol.


----------



## JBlast

My friend used dnp for 3 weeks at 600mg per day some months ago and he got peripheral neuropathy in the feets.

He stayed bad at bed for pain and during this time he gained back the fat because he eat for like depression because he couldn't walk etc..

The costant pain went away after 3-4 weeks.

Now, after 2 months, he doesn't have the costant pain but he told me he has something like numbness and some pain when its feets hurt versus something (like when you jump or going downstairs).

Now he would like to use dnp again for 2 weeks at 250mg for not risking peripheral neuropathy (normal dosage and duration of use). Do you think that could make worse the symptoms he has after the latest dnp run? Do you think its safe?


----------



## PSevens2017

JBlast said:


> My friend used dnp for 3 weeks at 600mg per day some months ago and he got peripheral neuropathy in the feets.
> 
> He stayed bad at bed for pain and during this time he gained back the fat because he eat for like depression because he couldn't walk etc..
> 
> The costant pain went away after 3-4 weeks.
> 
> Now, after 2 months, he doesn't have the costant pain but he told me he has something like numbness and some pain when its feets hurt versus something (like when you jump or going downstairs).
> 
> Now he would like to use dnp again for 2 weeks at 250mg for not risking peripheral neuropathy (normal dosage and duration of use). Do you think that could make worse the symptoms he has after the latest dnp run? Do you think its safe?


 If I had been stupid enough to run an incredibly dangerous product such as DNP at 600 per day and ended up with peripheral neuropathy and put all that weight back on along with depression, I'd count myself very lucky I did not die. What an absolute fukcing tool for taking that amount for that long. What lab was the DNP?

Your friend should not be anywhere near DNP if his approach is to do the amounts he does. Clearly very little/zero research done. Also, if he is still suffering numbness from his [suicide] run of DNP, that should answer your question and your dumb ass mates.

You may think I'm being a bit of dickhead for insulting your friend but you as his mate should be telling him what I'm saying. What are mates for eh????


----------



## JBlast

PSevens2017 said:


> If I had been stupid enough to run an incredibly dangerous product such as DNP at 600 per day and ended up with peripheral neuropathy and put all that weight back on along with depression, I'd count myself very lucky I did not die. What an absolute fukcing tool for taking that amount for that long. What lab was the DNP?
> 
> Your friend should not be anywhere near DNP if his approach is to do the amounts he does. Clearly very little/zero research done. Also, if he is still suffering numbness from his [suicide] run of DNP, that should answer your question and your dumb ass mates.
> 
> You may think I'm being a bit of dickhead for insulting your friend but you as his mate should be telling him what I'm saying. What are mates for eh????


 I will ask him which lab he used, In fact I told him to bin the dnp but he doesn't want to listen me, I was thinking of grabbing the dnp from his house lol

But also I thinked if he would run a low dosage like people do, there shouldn't be side effects like he got? I don't know


----------



## Devil

JBlast said:


> I will ask him which lab he used, In fact I told him to bin the dnp but he doesn't want to listen me, I was thinking of grabbing the dnp from his house lol
> 
> But also I thinked if he would run a low dosage like people do, there shouldn't be side effects like he got? I don't know


 If one is unlucky enough to get PN (I got symptoms on 250mg after 5 days and stopped immediately - all back to normal after a few days) then they should never be touching dnp at any dose again.

The fact he's suffering that bad and was bed ridden etc just for enhanced fat loss is stupid, the fact he wants to run it again? He has severe mental health problems that need addressing. Body dysmorphia, lack of sense and or care etc


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> sorry if these questions have been asked already,, still halfway through thread
> 
> 1. any benefits of using primo e instead test e? using test e at 750mg so what dose would suffice for primo e to get similar effects in growth while avoiding water?
> 
> 2. tren e vs tri-tren during a lean bulk ? what would you suggest?
> 
> 3. ive heard eq effects gaba in the brain, would supplmenting with 5htp help ?
> 
> 4. taking full dose orals pre workout as opposed to split throughout day a better approach? for instance taking 40-50 dbol 2 hours before workout so we get the spike in estrogen, and use it to our benefit (in a way like humalog) that way were not keeping estrogen peaking all through out the day if we split doses, the test e in background will be doing this anyway ...
> 
> 5. for 5'10 man, on average what is the max kg he can get up to at 6% bf without hgh ?
> 
> 6. slin without hgh ... is this just a waste of time or can it done; putting very minimal fat on
> 
> 7. berberine or metformin (which is best) for a lean bulk , without slin and or gh in the picture.... and also the best way to go about it ? can i also take in more calories than usual as it will be shuttling nutrients much better ?
> 
> 8. for a lean bulking starting at 86kg 6%bf how much weight should i look to increase weekly, trying to avoid fat gain
> 
> 9. also with the above, how much should i gradually increase macros each week ? im at 2700 cals now, maintence is 3200.... i already have proteins and fats locked in (pro: 258 fats:86 carbs: 220) , so im pretty much just increasing carbs , but at what frequency and how much ?
> 
> 10. for lean bulk... test e/ eq/ tren e(or A or tri tren) VS test e/NPP/tren E (or A or tri tren)
> 
> 11. for rebound , oral wise , would you prefer ..... dbol (40mg) + winny (50mg) or winny (50mg)+ sdrol (10mg) or adrol (50mg)+winny (50mg) <<all tapered up weekly
> 
> 12. ive heard tudca is acually bad while taking with orals,, and it should be used AFTER discontinuation of orals... is this true ?
> 
> again extremely sorry if these have been asked ,, still making my way through thread ,,, really appreciate your help


 Primo is not an adequate substitute for test. I'm not against test-less cycles per say, but primo doesn't do what test does, physiologically speaking.

Tri-tren or E are both fine, i would go with E to keep it simple and blood levels stable but either will do the job.

Never heard of EQ specifically affecting serotonergic pathways, but 19-nors have been shown to do so and all androgens affect serotonin in some way. What specific side effect of EQ would you be trying to address by supplementing 5-htp? Note that gaba and serotonin are two different neurotransmitters, albeit both can promote a feeling a calmness and contentment.

No reason to split orals through out the day. You will see no difference but some people like doing this.

Your maximum genetic potential without GH is down to your individual genetics, some guys will never be "big" and some guys blow up on test only, ripped with a six pack. Most guys don't need GH to reach their dream physique though.

I would not mess with slin without GH, they both have a synergistic effect and mitigate each others drawbacks ( GH helps partition energy into lean tissue vs fat from insulin usage, and GH causes insulin resistance which is overcome by insulin use, they are the perfect combo and brough bodybuilding to the next level for better or worse)

I have no personal experience running metformin or other anti-diabetic orals, however, friends of mine have had positive effects on body composition and i believe their may be some benefit for lean bulk and even cutting here. You're looking at running 1,000 mg metformin daily, grant it, some people get increase appetite from it. My friend lost 10 lbs of fat running it for a few months with no change in diet. Interesting compound and worth personal experimentation if you're interested. I have lots of patients running met and its a pretty awesome compound.

Lean bulk ; 250-500 calorie surplus max. Limit fat intake on your surplus days to avoid spillover into fat. The closer you can stay to 250 calorie surplus, the better. Stay under 13-15% bodyfat for best results. In my opinion, the best method is to hit a 500 calorie surplus until you hit 13-15% bodyfat, then cut back down to 9-10% and repeat.

Are you asking about reverse dieting? Add 250 cals per week in carbs, you can lower your protein intake as well. It does not have to be that high.

My favorite lean bulk combo is test/tren/winny, test/npp/tren would be very effective too. I do find that test P truly does deliver less water retention and i "feel" it more. Just an anecdotal observation. I feel test p is more effective as a "testosterone". With slin pins, daily and EOD injections are not an issue.

Tapering is unnecessary, winstrol and superdrol are the most effective orals in my opinion. Dbol is an inferior androgen unless you like the bloofy puffed up look. Those with history of gyno should avoid it completely. It's one of the worst offenders.

BS, people do not understand how tudca works. Orals can cause liver damage by impeding the flow of bile in the liver, tudca/udca is a bile salt that keeps the healthy flow in the liver running, preventing cholestasis, one of the pathologies behind AAS induced liver damage.


----------



## superdrol

As for tudca being bad when running orals, whoever said that was talking out of there arse! It keeps the liver working well


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> My friend used dnp for 3 weeks at 600mg per day some months ago and he got peripheral neuropathy in the feets.
> 
> He stayed bad at bed for pain and during this time he gained back the fat because he eat for like depression because he couldn't walk etc..
> 
> The costant pain went away after 3-4 weeks.
> 
> Now, after 2 months, he doesn't have the costant pain but he told me he has something like numbness and some pain when its feets hurt versus something (like when you jump or going downstairs).
> 
> Now he would like to use dnp again for 2 weeks at 250mg for not risking peripheral neuropathy (normal dosage and duration of use). Do you think that could make worse the symptoms he has after the latest dnp run? Do you think its safe?


 I would never go above 500 mg DNP ever, there is just no need. It is already extremely effective at 200-500 mg. Remember, people have cooked themselves on this s**t.

He can give it a shot at his own risk. Remember, most guys have gotten plenty lean without DNP. Caloric surplus+200 mg DNP you're already cheating the system.

Also note that you never know how accurately dosed your DNP, many UGL will overdose this stuff. You need to be careful and start low.

BTW, most guys who get PN from DNP are fully recovered by 6 months and many don't ever touch it again. Respect the compound guys.


----------



## Whoremoan1

many thanks el chapo, really appreciate it! im on test e/eq/tren e (last month) for my lean bulk ,,, im very curious on on test/ npp and tren e..... should i finish off my 20 week cycle of test e / eq/ tren and try test /npp/tren .... or drop the eq now and chuck in npp..... then save the eq for after the test/npp/tren cycle ?? that way i can run the eq into my cut ??


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> many thanks el chapo, really appreciate it! im on test e/eq/tren e (last month) for my lean bulk ,,, im very curious on on test/ npp and tren e..... should i finish off my 20 week cycle of test e / eq/ tren and try test /npp/tren .... or drop the eq now and chuck in npp..... then save the eq for after the test/npp/tren cycle ?? that way i can run the eq into my cut ??


 Dont over think things too much, if you've started your cycle finish it up.


----------



## Whoremoan1

superdrol said:


> As for tudca being bad when running orals, whoever said that was talking out of there arse! It keeps the liver working well


 Was a doc on trained by jp app lol


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

whats your thoughts on epistane? I've heard it's very similar to winny , but a bit better as it fills you out more ...what's your thoughts ?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your thoughts on epistane? I've heard it's very similar to winny , but a bit better as it fills you out more ...what's your thoughts ?


 Very similar to winstrol, some people love this stuff and its interesting as it was used as a breast cancer drug.

I haven't used it myself but would use it as a substitute to winstrol, similar effects.


----------



## Jordan08

If someone is not very keen on vegetable intake, getting fiber thru legumes and psyllium husk. Does one should be worry on missing micro nutrients?. Fruit intake is on point too.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo on average I walk 8kms at work pushing equipment slow pace(work 5-6hrs a day) ... If I got home and done 20 minutes of cardio ED on the stationary bike, is this pushing it too far during lean bulk?

if so can I just up my cals a bit more to compensate? I get really bored at night if I don't do cardio


----------



## superdrol

Whoremoan1 said:


> Was a doc on trained by jp app lol


 I'd rather take el chapos word on it from his level of answers in this thread


----------



## Whoremoan1

superdrol said:


> I'd rather take el chapos word on it from his level of answers in this thread


 hahah agreed


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

carbs before bed ? also do you space your carbs through out day or all around workout ?


----------



## superdrol

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> carbs before bed ? also do you space your carbs through out day or all around workout ?


 Makes no odds, he's covered it before, waking and pre/post workout are most important times if on low carbs


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

thinking of using t3 during lean bulk..... 37.5 mcg puts me at exactly 6.4 pmol/l (range 3.5-6.5)

would this be a good level for metabolic rate/ partioning ?

keep in mind i can eat ALOT, even while bulking im still hungry.... ive always been like this

tbh im not too fussed if anything happens and im stuck on t3 for life, might actually be beneficial for me? lol

even though ive heard t3 is fairly resilient, even after years of use of t3


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> If someone is not very keen on vegetable intake, getting fiber thru legumes and psyllium husk. Does one should be worry on missing micro nutrients?. Fruit intake is on point too.


 Vegetables are vastly overrated, meats have a TON of vitamins and minerals. Nuts are also very rich in minerals. Typically, most people lack vitamin D and magnesium. I don't consume much vegetable myself. Potato is extremely rich in potassium.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo on average I walk 8kms at work pushing equipment slow pace(work 5-6hrs a day) ... If I got home and done 20 minutes of cardio ED on the stationary bike, is this pushing it too far during lean bulk?
> 
> if so can I just up my cals a bit more to compensate? I get really bored at night if I don't do cardio


 I don't think so, steady state cardio is very easy on the body and 20 minutes will not push it hard either on the bike. I would only worry if you plateau or get stuck trying to hit your goals.

You can up calories to compensate usually, unless the intensity of the exercise is just burning out your body as a whole, but with light cardio, it's usually a caloric expenditure issue.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> carbs before bed ? also do you space your carbs through out day or all around workout ?


 Not an issue and help you get better sleep. Carb intake increases tryptophan/serotonin in the brain. That's why when you eat a carb heavy meal you get sleepy and relax aka the rest/digest response vs fight/flight when the opposite occurs and your body pumps out adrenaline and other catecholamines.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> thinking of using t3 during lean bulk..... 37.5 mcg puts me at exactly 6.4 pmol/l (range 3.5-6.5)
> 
> would this be a good level for metabolic rate/ partioning ?
> 
> keep in mind i can eat ALOT, even while bulking im still hungry.... ive always been like this
> 
> tbh im not too fussed if anything happens and im stuck on t3 for life, might actually be beneficial for me? lol
> 
> even though ive heard t3 is fairly resilient, even after years of use of t3


 It's actually been proven that thyroid supplementation increases lean tissue and growth ( in chickens), and in humans we know that low thyroid activity leads to impaired growth in humans.

When do you draw blood after taking T3? Levels spike the hardest at 4 hours after intake and can still be elevated 24 hours later. So it's very important to note this when looking at the blood work. Typically i would recommend 25 mcg, when we start hitting hyperthyroid territory, protein turnover increases. The breakdown of protein exceeds the repair and nitrogen/glycogen metabolism is sped up, meaning less is available for muscle repair and performance.

This is why many people say T3 makes them lose strength fast. It's not muscle loss but the changes in muscle metabolism that hit their performance so quickly.

T3 use will not cause your thyroid to slow down, it's much different to the HPTA/testicular axis. I recommend a 100 mcg/25 mg combo to optimize T4 and T3 levels to maximum. When you take T3 solo, it shuts down T4 (T4 has its own important important functions)


----------



## Pancake'

Seem to have some sternum inflammation still,

it's uncomfortable, when lying on back and I raise up,

I just finished a push session, didn't go as heavy,

but I could still train, are the pops/cracks a bad sign?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DORIAN

Quick question mate, is it advisable to go

Straight from a bulk into a cut, or give it a few weeks to level off, before attempting


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Seem to have some sternum inflammation still,
> 
> it's uncomfortable, when lying on back and I raise up,
> 
> I just finished a push session, didn't go as heavy,
> 
> but I could still train, are the pops/cracks a bad sign?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 What is the longest and recent break you took from training? I've had cracks and pops from heavy dips that went away on their own. Typically a good break will let everything heal up.

2-3 weeks for mild injury, 4-6 for moderate. If you keep training on it can become chronic and permanent.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Quick question mate, is it advisable to go
> 
> Straight from a bulk into a cut, or give it a few weeks to level off, before attempting


 It's good to take a full one or two week diet break from counting calories etc to give your body and mind a rest but you can go straight into a cut if you're ready.

It's more important to take a break when going from cut to bulk since your metabolism is primed to gain extra weight when coming off a cut but it's not as important when going the other way.


----------



## Dan71

Will try to be quick in 2010 after long heroin addiction got endocarditis and organ failure spent 10 weeks in intensive care and was discharged with a blocked valve,a regurgitation and a murmur.Was told i would need a valve replacement in future but was clinically fit.In 2015 started working out and using test and alot of it have stayed on almost 3yrs never under 500mg a week and often alot higher.Recently got called in to see the cardiologist for scans etc and expecting to hear the worst he says I no longer have a blocked valve,regurgitation,murmur and all chambers are working perfectly and they dont need to see me again,he then says i can see you work out and whatever you are doing is clearly working for you .how do you think this has happened as it shouldn' repair itself ,has being on test had this positive conclusion


----------



## Sasnak

Nice story. Look forward to the response.


----------



## BestBefore1989

Acute pancreatitis

The hospital listed the common causes as gallstones , heavy alcohol use and AAS.

From the reading I have done so far Estrogen can induce acute pancreatitis so that should be controllable with a correctly dosed AI

I understand that L-arginine can also induce pancreatitis and of course AAS improves amino acid uptake, so what can be done about that?

any tips or advice would be gratefully received.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> What is the longest and recent break you took from training? I've had cracks and pops from heavy dips that went away on their own. Typically a good break will let everything heal up.
> 
> 2-3 weeks for mild injury, 4-6 for moderate. If you keep training on it can become chronic and permanent.


 I can't remember lol. Probably just over a week around Christmas?

I've had some good momentum going recently,

so I don't really want to take a break. 

Could I just train legs?

Probably best I do however.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I can't remember lol. Probably just over a week around Christmas?
> 
> I've had some good momentum going recently,
> 
> so I don't really want to take a break.
> 
> Could I just train legs?
> 
> Probably best I do however.


 If you take 2-3 weeks off, you wont lose any muscle or strength and your injury will probably be resolved.

If you have good momentum going and close to your goals, finish that up and give your body a small break.


----------



## ElChapo

Dan71 said:


> Will try to be quick in 2010 after long heroin addiction got endocarditis and organ failure spent 10 weeks in intensive care and was discharged with a blocked valve,a regurgitation and a murmur.Was told i would need a valve replacement in future but was clinically fit.In 2015 started working out and using test and alot of it have stayed on almost 3yrs never under 500mg a week and often alot higher.Recently got called in to see the cardiologist for scans etc and expecting to hear the worst he says I no longer have a blocked valve,regurgitation,murmur and all chambers are working perfectly and they dont need to see me again,he then says i can see you work out and whatever you are doing is clearly working for you .how do you think this has happened as it shouldn' repair itself ,has being on test had this positive conclusion


 Your issues were linked to the endocarditis, an acute condition that resolves itself with treatment.

Weight lifting is actually good for the heart.


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> Acute pancreatitis
> 
> The hospital listed the common causes as gallstones , heavy alcohol use and AAS.
> 
> From the reading I have done so far Estrogen can induce acute pancreatitis so that should be controllable with a correctly dosed AI
> 
> I understand that L-arginine can also induce pancreatitis and of course AAS improves amino acid uptake, so what can be done about that?
> 
> any tips or advice would be gratefully received.


 Pancreatitis just means inflammation of the pancreas, an extremely broad term.

The inflammation could be cause by a bunch of different things, even infection or autoimmune problems.

If you can pinpoint any med, hormone or recent sickness that may have contributed, you may have an answer.

It is extremely unlikely your issue is estrogen.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> It's actually been proven that thyroid supplementation increases lean tissue and growth ( in chickens), and in humans we know that low thyroid activity leads to impaired growth in humans.
> 
> When do you draw blood after taking T3? Levels spike the hardest at 4 hours after intake and can still be elevated 24 hours later. So it's very important to note this when looking at the blood work. Typically i would recommend 25 mcg, when we start hitting hyperthyroid territory, protein turnover increases. The breakdown of protein exceeds the repair and nitrogen/glycogen metabolism is sped up, meaning less is available for muscle repair and performance.
> 
> This is why many people say T3 makes them lose strength fast. It's not muscle loss but the changes in muscle metabolism that hit their performance so quickly.
> 
> T3 use will not cause your thyroid to slow down, it's much different to the HPTA/testicular axis. I recommend a 100 mcg/25 mg combo to optimize T4 and T3 levels to maximum. When you take T3 solo, it shuts down T4 (T4 has its own important important functions)


 i would say about 6 hours after i took the t3? also took a blood test about 6 weeks ago mid cut (not on t3) and t3 was 3.4 (Range 3.5-6.5) , t4 was 6.9 (range 9-25) tsh 1.11 (range 0.5-5.0)

so there was def something up , my doc prescribed me t4.... and here i am today, taking t3 at 37.5 and 100 mcg t4, which puts me in the upper limits of both ,,, thats pretty much why i dont care if i have to stay on t3/t4 for life ... unless the cut really drilled my thyroid ...but looks like hypothyroidism to me? .. dieting is always hell for me, as i love to eat so much ...

another couple questions

1. can you take nolva and adex together or does nolva lessen the effect of adex ? or is that a myth?

2. whats your fav excercises for :

shoulders:

chest:

triceps:

biceps:

quads:

hams:

back:

3. also how many sets do you do per body part and reps , for muscle growth

sorry to ask all these questions,, not every day you get to ask someone who really knows theyre stuff anything! really appreciate it mate


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> Pancreatitis just means inflammation of the pancreas, an extremely broad term.
> 
> The inflammation could be cause by a bunch of different things, even infection or autoimmune problems.
> 
> If you can pinpoint any med, hormone or recent sickness that may have contributed, you may have an answer.
> 
> It is extremely unlikely your issue is estrogen.


 Thank you sir


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> It's good to take a full one or two week diet break from counting calories etc to give your body and mind a rest but you can go straight into a cut if you're ready.
> 
> It's more important to take a break when going from cut to bulk since your metabolism is primed to gain extra weight when coming off a cut but it's not as important when going the other way.


 Excellent mate, I just assumed that cutting straight after bulking may have caused a loss in size, thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> i would say about 6 hours after i took the t3? also took a blood test about 6 weeks ago mid cut (not on t3) and t3 was 3.4 (Range 3.5-6.5) , t4 was 6.9 (range 9-25) tsh 1.11 (range 0.5-5.0)
> 
> so there was def something up , my doc prescribed me t4.... and here i am today, taking t3 at 37.5 and 100 mcg t4, which puts me in the upper limits of both ,,, thats pretty much why i dont care if i have to stay on t3/t4 for life ... unless the cut really drilled my thyroid ...but looks like hypothyroidism to me? .. dieting is always hell for me, as i love to eat so much ...
> 
> another couple questions
> 
> 1. can you take nolva and adex together or does nolva lessen the effect of adex ? or is that a myth?
> 
> 2. whats your fav excercises for :
> 
> shoulders:
> 
> chest:
> 
> triceps:
> 
> biceps:
> 
> quads:
> 
> hams:
> 
> back:
> 
> 3. also how many sets do you do per body part and reps , for muscle growth
> 
> sorry to ask all these questions,, not every day you get to ask someone who really knows theyre stuff anything! really appreciate it mate


 That's exactly the combo i recommend to optimize thyroid output. 100/25 mcg each will put most guys at the top of the range.

It looks like subclinical hypothyroidism like you're saying, TSH doesn't always have to be elevated. One can have low testosterone but LH levels are completely normal, this is something a lot of MDs miss because they use TSH as the only standard to test thyroid function. If you are symptomatic, i would continue the treatment.

Typically, cutting for long periods will decrease T3 but T4 should not be affected. You can see the effect of diet on thyroid hormone in this chart: ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5222856/figure/F3/)

Front shoulders: Heavy military press, high volume DB seated press, weighted dips.

Lateral shoulders: Lateral raises with hold at the top. I've worked up to as high as 40 lbs with strict form. Keep thumbs rotated slightly upwards to put maximum tension on the lateral delts and try to lift with the delts, you will feel a pull on the side delts when you do this. Keep scapula retracted the whole time.

Chest: Heavy bench press, high volume pec fly machine (hard contraction and hold at the top), incline db press. (45 degrees)

Triceps: Weighted dips are the king, trust me on this one. Lean forward to develop pecs more, lean backwards to hit the triceps harder.

Biceps: Strict db curls; minimal elbow movement/full ROM + weighted chin ups (these let you overload the bi's with heavy weight).

Quads: Classic full ROM heavy squat+ Leg extension machine/leg press.

Hams: Lying leg curl machine tom platz style. High volume and heavy weight alternate.

Back: Weighted pull ups, high volume lat pull down and cable rows. Deadlifts.

You can get away with as little as 2-3 sets for the heavy compound stuff like bench, squat, deads. High volume for the isolation, machines, cables and db. 3-6 sets per exercise depending on your recovery capacity, goals ( more sets for lagging body parts) and how often you go to the gym. I like to start the workout with the heavy and finish off with high volume. You can also periodize a few months of high volume only and then a few months of powerlifting/strength based only training but a combo of volume and strength training is optimal for growth. The best bodybuilders did both ( arnold, platz, colombo, yates, coleman, etc).


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Excellent mate, I just assumed that cutting straight after bulking may have caused a loss in size, thanks mate


 Keeping an eye on performance and strength will give you a good idea how well you are retaining muscle on a cut. It's good to keep carbs high as this will keep you full and performance high. Sometimes a loss in strength and size is due to low carb intake ; glycogen depletion.


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Keeping an eye on performance and strength will give you a good idea how well you are retaining muscle on a cut. It's good to keep carbs high as this will keep you full and performance high. Sometimes a loss in strength and size is due to low carb intake ; glycogen depletion.


 Yeah mate last time I cut I focused solely on cutting cals, not carbs fats etc, went pretty well, thanks mate, top man


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Yeah mate last time I cut I focused solely on cutting cals, not carbs fats etc, went pretty well, thanks mate, top man


 Yeah, the deficit is key. Obsessing over macros takes valuable energy away from focusing on consistency with your training and diet. I focus on getting minimum protein needed+caloric deficit. The rest i fill in with carbs. Keeping them high keeps leptin/T3 high and glycogen levels up which translates to a fuller look, faster metabolism and less hunger.


----------



## u2pride

Hi @ElChapo,

what is your fat intake in bulk and cut? And what kind of them?


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, the deficit is key. Obsessing over macros takes valuable energy away from focusing on consistency with your training and diet. I focus on getting minimum protein needed+caloric deficit. The rest i fill in with carbs. Keeping them high keeps leptin/T3 high and glycogen levels up which translates to a fuller look, faster metabolism and less hunger.


 That makes perfect sence, keeping full and feeling full not hungry, :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> That makes perfect sence, keeping full and feeling full not hungry, :thumb


 Yeah, metabolism slows down the most when carbs are low, and worst of all leptin the satiety hormone decreases, increasing hunger pangs, irritability and all the shitty feelings of being hungry.

This translates to slower fat loss, a decrease in performance in training which can lead to more muscle loss, flat muscles and a general feeling of s**t.

If carbs are kept on the lower end, carb refeeds are essential, and the importance increases as you get leaner.


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

Would a low dose of masteron be effective for freeing testosterone whilst using 300mg of cyp


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Hi @ElChapo,
> 
> what is your fat intake in bulk and cut? And what kind of them?


 Fat stays on the lower end for bulk and cut.

For cut, less fat means more carbs which translates to better performance, fuller muscle, faster metabolism and less hunger.

For bulk, less fat means less direct fat storage from a surplus of calories. Surplus+fat intake = higher risk of excess fat gain.

There is no exact macro and i don't consciously try to keep fat very low. It just the macro that's least important for performance and body composition. You don't need a lot in your diet.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would a low dose of masteron be effective for freeing testosterone whilst using 300mg of cyp


 150 mg prop or 200 mg e


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Fat stays on the lower end for bulk and cut.
> 
> For cut, less fat means more carbs which translates to better performance, fuller muscle, faster metabolism and less hunger.
> 
> For bulk, less fat means less direct fat storage from a surplus of calories. Surplus+fat intake = higher risk of excess fat gain.
> 
> There is no exact macro and i don't consciously try to keep fat very low. It just the macro that's least important for performance and body composition. You don't need a lot in your diet.


 In cut I'm holding fat to 40gr, 190pro, 350gr carbs (2600Kcal)

Weight 84Kg


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> 150 mg prop or 200 mg e


 Per week ?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Per week ?


 Yeah


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> In cut I'm holding fat to 40gr, 190pro, 350gr carbs (2600Kcal)
> 
> Weight 84Kg


 If you plateau for longer than 2 weeks, decrease calories by 150-200 daily. This should break the plateau.

The reason you wait 2 weeks is because water retention will hide your fat loss. You could be losing fat but will weigh the same until your body drops the water.

When did your weight loss stop and how long have you been on 2600 calories?


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> If you plateau for longer than 2 weeks, decrease calories by 150-200 daily. This should break the plateau.
> 
> The reason you wait 2 weeks is because water retention will hide your fat loss. You could be losing fat but will weigh the same until your body drops the water.
> 
> When did your weight loss stop and how long have you been on 2600 calories?


 Weight loss is in progress 

Start cutting from 90Kg one month ago. Maintenance should be 3100Kcal more or less.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> That's exactly the combo i recommend to optimize thyroid output. 100/25 mcg each will put most guys at the top of the range.
> 
> It looks like subclinical hypothyroidism like you're saying, TSH doesn't always have to be elevated. One can have low testosterone but LH levels are completely normal, this is something a lot of MDs miss because they use TSH as the only standard to test thyroid function. If you are symptomatic, i would continue the treatment.
> 
> Typically, cutting for long periods will decrease T3 but T4 should not be affected. You can see the effect of diet on thyroid hormone in this chart: ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5222856/figure/F3/)
> 
> Front shoulders: Heavy military press, high volume DB seated press, weighted dips.
> 
> Lateral shoulders: Lateral raises with hold at the top. I've worked up to as high as 40 lbs with strict form. Keep thumbs rotated slightly upwards to put maximum tension on the lateral delts and try to lift with the delts, you will feel a pull on the side delts when you do this. Keep scapula retracted the whole time.
> 
> Chest: Heavy bench press, high volume pec fly machine (hard contraction and hold at the top), incline db press. (45 degrees)
> 
> Triceps: Weighted dips are the king, trust me on this one. Lean forward to develop pecs more, lean backwards to hit the triceps harder.
> 
> Biceps: Strict db curls; minimal elbow movement/full ROM + weighted chin ups (these let you overload the bi's with heavy weight).
> 
> Quads: Classic full ROM heavy squat+ Leg extension machine/leg press.
> 
> Hams: Lying leg curl machine tom platz style. High volume and heavy weight alternate.
> 
> Back: Weighted pull ups, high volume lat pull down and cable rows. Deadlifts.
> 
> You can get away with as little as 2-3 sets for the heavy compound stuff like bench, squat, deads. High volume for the isolation, machines, cables and db. 3-6 sets per exercise depending on your recovery capacity, goals ( more sets for lagging body parts) and how often you go to the gym. I like to start the workout with the heavy and finish off with high volume. You can also periodize a few months of high volume only and then a few months of powerlifting/strength based only training but a combo of volume and strength training is optimal for growth. The best bodybuilders did both ( arnold, platz, colombo, yates, coleman, etc).
> 
> 1) ok so should i keep my t4/t4 at 37.5/100 mcg ?
> 
> getting bloods taking tomorrow and want to keep everything the same so i can give myself a reference
> 
> ive been on test 600 mg, eq 600, tren e 400 , 50 mg dbol and 50 mg stanna...... 20mg nolva ed NO AI.....
> 
> last bloods were 3 weeks ago,, so want to see if estro has moved at all, as this is my biggest blast so far.... will also check thyroid again while im at it
> 
> 2) also , does taking nolva with arimidex lessen the effects of arimidex ? ive also heard its the same with nolva and letro (the nolva will lower the potency of letro?) any truth to this ?
> 
> this is my workout split
> 
> 3) mon - chest / bi's/ bit of quads (6 sets quads)
> tues - back
> weds-rest
> thurs - shoulders / traps
> fri- bi's / tris/ bit of chest to begin with (4-6 heavy sets)
> sat- quads / hams / bit of back (4-6 heavy sets on back)
> sun - shoulders/ triceps
> 
> tweaking a bit still,,, one half is more pump, the other strength
> works well with my body/lagging bodyparts
> fits in good with work too
> 
> feel free to tweak more or suggest any changes ? trying to hit muscle groups twice a week


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> That's exactly the combo i recommend to optimize thyroid output. 100/25 mcg each will put most guys at the top of the range.
> 
> It looks like subclinical hypothyroidism like you're saying, TSH doesn't always have to be elevated. One can have low testosterone but LH levels are completely normal, this is something a lot of MDs miss because they use TSH as the only standard to test thyroid function. If you are symptomatic, i would continue the treatment.
> 
> Typically, cutting for long periods will decrease T3 but T4 should not be affected. You can see the effect of diet on thyroid hormone in this chart: ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5222856/figure/F3/)
> 
> Front shoulders: Heavy military press, high volume DB seated press, weighted dips.
> 
> Lateral shoulders: Lateral raises with hold at the top. I've worked up to as high as 40 lbs with strict form. Keep thumbs rotated slightly upwards to put maximum tension on the lateral delts and try to lift with the delts, you will feel a pull on the side delts when you do this. Keep scapula retracted the whole time.
> 
> Chest: Heavy bench press, high volume pec fly machine (hard contraction and hold at the top), incline db press. (45 degrees)
> 
> Triceps: Weighted dips are the king, trust me on this one. Lean forward to develop pecs more, lean backwards to hit the triceps harder.
> 
> Biceps: Strict db curls; minimal elbow movement/full ROM + weighted chin ups (these let you overload the bi's with heavy weight).
> 
> Quads: Classic full ROM heavy squat+ Leg extension machine/leg press.
> 
> Hams: Lying leg curl machine tom platz style. High volume and heavy weight alternate.
> 
> Back: Weighted pull ups, high volume lat pull down and cable rows. Deadlifts.
> 
> You can get away with as little as 2-3 sets for the heavy compound stuff like bench, squat, deads. High volume for the isolation, machines, cables and db. 3-6 sets per exercise depending on your recovery capacity, goals ( more sets for lagging body parts) and how often you go to the gym. I like to start the workout with the heavy and finish off with high volume. You can also periodize a few months of high volume only and then a few months of powerlifting/strength based only training but a combo of volume and strength training is optimal for growth. The best bodybuilders did both ( arnold, platz, colombo, yates, coleman, etc).


 @ElChapo what benefits do you believe or have seen people get using 25 t3 and 100 t4 as opposed to just 50mcg t3 please mate?


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo what benefits do you believe or have seen people get using 25 t3 and 100 t4 as opposed to just 50mcg t3 please mate?


 Biggest issue i see with T3 only is some brain fog and verbal recall issues. T4 is important for brain function, hair growth, etc. Some cells are better at converting T4 to T3 themselves than receiving T3 directly. By using T4 with T3 you make sure that all the pathways are being used. Free T4 correlates the most with well-being out of all the lab tests.

T3 only will shut down Free T4 levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Keep T3 the same as long as it's not giving you any hyperthyroid symptoms (muscle weakness, diarrhea, anxiety, nervousness, heart flutter/palpitations)

Nolva and tren will throw off your E2 blood test unless it's an LC/MS assay. Most of the time they use the ECLIA method which will pick up tren and sometimes nolva as E2.

Nolva will not lower potency of AI. Aromasin+nolva are stronger together in fact. nolva+arimidex has no special effect.

The split looks fine, just focus on increase weights and reps on all movements, even bicep curls and isolation exercises. Even it's only 2.5-5 lbs or 1-2 reps, this will encourage growth. I


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> Keep T3 the same as long as it's not giving you any hyperthyroid symptoms (muscle weakness, diarrhea, anxiety, nervousness, heart flutter/palpitations)
> 
> Nolva and tren will throw off your E2 blood test unless it's an LC/MS assay. Most of the time they use the ECLIA method which will pick up tren and sometimes nolva as E2.
> 
> Nolva will not lower potency of AI. Aromasin+nolva are stronger together in fact. nolva+arimidex has no special effect.
> 
> The split looks fine, just focus on increase weights and reps on all movements, even bicep curls and isolation exercises. Even it's only 2.5-5 lbs or 1-2 reps, this will encourage growth. I


 I recall reading nolva decreases arimidexs plasma levels by 37% or similar? Any truth or reasoning to this?


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

just got off the phone to blood test clinic..... theyre default is 'amino assay' ... will this method give an accurate reading while on tren or nolva ? ??


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I recall reading nolva decreases arimidexs plasma levels by 37% or similar? Any truth or reasoning to this?


 I've read that on a forum somewhere a long time ago, never saw any paper or mention of it in the field and even if it true, the net effect would still be the same. You would still get gyno reversal/e2 reduction.

Aromasin+nolva/ralox definitely work better together, this i can say for certain.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> just got off the phone to blood test clinic..... theyre default is 'amino assay' ... will this method give an accurate reading while on tren or nolva ? ??


 Sounds like they meant to say immuno assay which would be the ECLIA.

Results wont be accurate on real tren, that much i can say for sure. It picks up tren as E2.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Sounds like they meant to say immuno assay which would be the ECLIA.
> 
> Results wont be accurate on real tren, that much i can say for sure. It picks up tren as E2.


 yes i think thats the one! ok no worries , they also do mass spec.... thats LC/MS right? just double checking lol ....


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> yes i think thats the one! ok no worries , they also do mass spec.... thats LC/MS right? just double checking lol ....


 LC/MS is more expensive so most labs default to ECLIA.

LC/MS is good at measuring very low and very high levels as well as specificity.

In ECLIA deca will also show up as testosterone. LC/MS testosterone assay is not affected by deca.

ECLIA testosterone usually wont measure over a certain limit, but LCMS is unlimited.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> LC/MS is more expensive so most labs default to ECLIA.
> 
> LC/MS is good at measuring very low and very high levels as well as specificity.
> 
> In ECLIA deca will also show up as testosterone. LC/MS testosterone assay is not affected by deca.
> 
> ECLIA testosterone usually wont measure over a certain limit, but LCMS is unlimited.


 yeh its just crazy, ive asked the doc countless times to do lc/ms on estradial... i saw it on the blood script so i know he did write it .... the lady taking my blood even called the lab double checking it will be done in LC/MS... but i got the results 2 days back , and thats too quick.... once i got results back for LC/MS for DHT, and it was 4x over the normal limit... it came on a different looking result page so i knew my previous estro attempts were default ECLIA method..... but after talking to the blood doc/scientist from the lab , he said i have to state the code name as MASS SPEC estradiol..... so hopefully that worked as LC/MS estradiol never has...... its like they avoided doing it because i had wrong code name ? even though they knew what i meant.... because apparently they dont have lc/ms testing method at lab i go through but they have to search for a place that does... maybe im making them work harder than they want to lol


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> yeh its just crazy, ive asked the doc countless times to do lc/ms on estradial... i saw it on the blood script so i know he did write it .... the lady taking my blood even called the lab double checking it will be done in LC/MS... but i got the results 2 days back , and thats too quick.... once i got results back for LC/MS for DHT, and it was 4x over the normal limit... it came on a different looking result page so i knew my previous estro attempts were default ECLIA method..... but after talking to the blood doc/scientist from the lab , he said i have to state the code name as MASS SPEC estradiol..... so hopefully that worked as LC/MS estradiol never has...... its like they avoided doing it because i had wrong code name ? even though they knew what i meant.... because apparently they dont have lc/ms testing method at lab i go through but they have to search for a place that does... maybe im making them work harder than they want to lol


 Mass spec should be LC/MS, that's what the MS stands for.


----------



## Pancake'

Have you seen of any data or anything to suggest of negative health implications

from long term caffeine consumption?

Just how 'safe' are typical stimulants found in preworkouts?


----------



## spardaa

Hey el chapo.

Coming back from some time off both training and gear due to a torn rotator cuff. I have put on some fat, so my priority is to cut.

1 - Normally this would be done during a cruise however this time I came off completely - so I'm thinking I can build muscle and lose fat when I add the gear and training back in - would you agree? ie 'grow into the show'

2 - not going to run a terribly heavy cycle as once the cut is over ill increase dosage and bulk in order to take advantage of the rebound. I'm thinking 500mg test E, 400mg Tren E, 50mg winstrol per day and 4iu GH per day. Once bulking this will be increased to 1000-1200mg test E, 600mg+ Tren E and 100mg winstrol. Does this sounds okay or a bit too much?

3 - Was planning on following your high carb/low fat approach as the Tren should help my ability to utilize carbs (I usually have to go low carb as I don't metabolize them very well I assume). Dave palumbo recommends the complete opposite of what you say due to keeping insulin low and such - do you not agree and why? In addition he says carbs are absolutely NOT necessary to build muscle rather just a fuel source for exercise. Where as fats are NECESSARY to build muscle because of muscle cells containing a membrane or fascia or whatever. So if my diet is like 30-40g fat (from indirect sources) can I still build muscle?


----------



## stewedw

spardaa said:


> Hey el chapo.
> 
> Coming back from some time off both training and gear due to a torn rotator cuff. I have put on some fat, so my priority is to cut.
> 
> 1 - Normally this would be done during a cruise however this time I came off completely - so I'm thinking I can build muscle and lose fat when I add the gear and training back in - would you agree? ie 'grow into the show'
> 
> 2 - not going to run a terribly heavy cycle as once the cut is over ill increase dosage and bulk in order to take advantage of the rebound. I'm thinking 500mg test E, 400mg Tren E, 50mg winstrol per day and 4iu GH per day. Once bulking this will be increased to 1000-1200mg test E, 600mg+ Tren E and 100mg winstrol. Does this sounds okay or a bit too much?
> 
> 3 - Was planning on following your high carb/low fat approach as the Tren should help my ability to utilize carbs (I usually have to go low carb as I don't metabolize them very well I assume). Dave palumbo recommends the complete opposite of what you say due to keeping insulin low and such - do you not agree and why? In addition he says carbs are absolutely NOT necessary to build muscle rather just a fuel source for exercise. Where as fats are NECESSARY to build muscle because of muscle cells containing a membrane or fascia or whatever. So if my diet is like 30-40g fat (from indirect sources) can I still build muscle?


 Dave says carbs are t needed by the body and that's correct..... However they are still a preferred source of enegery. I've done Daves ckd and loved it every time, I seem to cut very week, very easily with under 20g of carbs, yet when I stick to the same cals and mix macros up it isn't as effective (for me) following this reply from elchapo with interest.


----------



## Whoremoan1

1. how important is WPI straight after training if im having bcaa intra workout? am i just wasting calories i could be eating 30 mins later? or is there some major merit to it ?

2. swapping test esters during long bulks a good idea? say for test / tren e / eq ,,,, changing the test ester every 8-10 weeks? so test e first, then sus 250, then test cyp? keeping test dosage the same at 600 mg .... is this a good idea , will it shock the body into more growth or am i just over complicating things? lol

3. how often do you snack on say a bag of chips or a snack instead of a whole food cheat meal ? (during bulk)

4. any supplements or medines that are not as popular that can make huge differences? i saw phil heath swears by colostrum and says its extremely underrated/underused ... are there any more most of us are missing?

as a side note,,, an extremely interesting individual you may like is brad clarke, you can find interviews with him on the podcast "muscle radio with scott goble" (they do a few episodes with him on various topics) .... he even researches the companies doing the research as some research is incredibly biased or the scientists are hired by the company itself to write good stuff haha ( think bayer did this with studies on androgens?)


----------



## ghost.recon

Whoremoan1 said:


> 1. how important is WPI straight after training if im having bcaa intra workout? am i just wasting calories i could be eating 30 mins later? or is there some major merit to it ?
> 
> 2. swapping test esters during long bulks a good idea? say for test / tren e / eq ,,,, changing the test ester every 8-10 weeks? so test e first, then sus 250, then test cyp? keeping test dosage the same at 600 mg .... is this a good idea , will it shock the body into more growth or am i just over complicating things? lol
> 
> 3. how often do you snack on say a bag of chips or a snack instead of a whole food cheat meal ? (during bulk)
> 
> 4. any supplements or medines that are not as popular that can make huge differences? i saw phil heath swears by colostrum and says its extremely underrated/underused ... are there any more most of us are missing?
> 
> as a side note,,, an extremely interesting individual you may like is brad clarke, you can find interviews with him on the podcast "muscle radio with scott goble" (they do a few episodes with him on various topics) .... he even researches the companies doing the research as some research is incredibly biased or the scientists are hired by the company itself to write good stuff haha ( think bayer did this with studies on androgens?)


 1. As a natty, important. Enhanced, not important, catabolic genes are down regulated as part of AAS gene expression. BCAA good but not essential, it activates protein synthesis but does not contribute to driving the process or its efficacy, total nutrient intake will govern that. It is like turning the engine on, you need petrol to keep going. activation is like the spark plug. You ask too many questions in one sentence, break it down.

2. Esters are not that important on a grand scheme of things. They alter PK and PD but this is the nitty gritty pharmacology that only geeks like us understand and find interesting. definitely over complicating. take your gear safely, eat properly, train properly, sleep correctly, do bloods as and when needed, assess health and enjoy the ride.

3. Get the majority of your calories from good food sources, less processed the better. the more processed it is the more inflammatory it can be for intestinal health.

4. NAC, TUDCA, COQ10, niacin, vit K, vit D, citrus bergamot, betaine, hawthorn berry. colostrum not really, it breaks down into amino acids by the end of its journy through your gut.

There will always be some level of bias or conflict of interest in research


----------



## ghost.recon

stewedw said:


> Dave says carbs are t needed by the body and that's correct..... However they are still a preferred source of enegery. I've done Daves ckd and loved it every time, I seem to cut very week, very easily with under 20g of carbs, yet when I stick to the same cals and mix macros up it isn't as effective (for me) following this reply from elchapo with interest.


 You don't need high amounts of fat for cell membrane repair, you need some yes but not much.

Considering the size of a cell and the fat needed for each cell membrane, you're looking at picomoles per cell.

Specifically you're looking at 0.45mg of lipids per 10 million cells, and that is just one cell type, namely fibroblasts which is one of the most abundant cell types in the human body. Cells such as neurons will need more for maintaining myelin.

Fats are needed for other processes such as hormone production but consuming lower amounts of fat does not mean you will affect cell membrane repair and development or hormone production.

In the presence of depleted amounts of lipids, cells can actually derive their own lipids by de novo synthesis from glucose.

Dave Palumbo is wrong, afterall he didn't even graduate from university, his knowledge is limited and one dimensional. He fails to realise that lipid metabolism has several pathways.

In the context of AAS, you don't actually need that many fats in your diet. AAS will typically raise serum cholesterol levels anyways and the average cell can use 21% of serum cholesterol.

People in bodybuilding think they are smart when really their knowledge is very basic. It's stuff like this that can kill. Only because you read the first page of a book or the abstract of a journal does not mean you have a degree in biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, endocrinology and all the other core subjects required for understanding human physiology. I only have a few of these under my belt but it doesn't mean I stop studying. Don't rely on the words of others as gospel, hey don't even rely on mine. Do your own research. But I'm happy to give my 2 cents if it helps.

Lookat Mike Matarazzo who consumed excessive amounts of red meat which no doubt contributed to his heart complications, I imagine his arteries were severely calcified and he was riddled with atherosclerosis. Look as Dallas mcarvers autopsy, his arteries were messed up, of course he did have other pre-existing medical conditions but AAS, diet, lack of safety measures and medical intervention contributed to his death.

I use the terms "fats" and "lipids" interchangeably. Just to clarify, this is a general term that describes all different components ie. Cholesterol, phospholipids, fatty acids, triglycerides, and cholesterol esters.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ghost.recon said:


> You don't need high amounts of fat for cell membrane repair, you need some yes but not much.
> 
> Considering the size of a cell and the fat needed for each cell membrane, you're looking at picomoles per cell.
> 
> Specifically you're looking at 0.45mg of lipids per 10 million cells, and that is just one cell type, namely fibroblasts which is one of the most abundant cell types in the human body. Cells such as neurons will need more for maintaining myelin.
> 
> Fats are needed for other processes such as hormone production but consuming lower amounts of fat does not mean you will affect cell membrane repair and development or hormone production.
> 
> In the presence of depleted amounts of lipids, cells can actually derive their own lipids by de novo synthesis from glucose.
> 
> Dave Palumbo is wrong, afterall he didn't even graduate from university, his knowledge is limited and one dimensional. He fails to realise that lipid metabolism has several pathways.
> 
> In the context of AAS, you don't actually need that many fats in your diet. AAS will typically raise serum cholesterol levels anyways and the average cell can use 21% of serum cholesterol.
> 
> People in bodybuilding think they are smart when really their knowledge is very basic. It's stuff like this that can kill. Only because you read the first page of a book or the abstract of a journal does not mean you have a degree in biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, endocrinology and all the other core subjects required for understanding human physiology. I only have a few of these under my belt but it doesn't mean I stop studying. Don't rely on the words of others as gospel, hey don't even rely on mine. Do your own research. But I'm happy to give my 2 cents if it helps.
> 
> Lookat Mike Matarazzo who consumed excessive amounts of red meat which no doubt contributed to his heart complications, I imagine his arteries were severely calcified and he was riddled with atherosclerosis. Look as Dallas mcarvers autopsy, his arteries were messed up, of course he did have other pre-existing medical conditions but AAS, diet, lack of safety measures and medical intervention contributed to his death.
> 
> I use the terms "fats" and "lipids" interchangeably. Just to clarify, this is a general term that describes all different components ie. Cholesterol, phospholipids, fatty acids, triglycerides, and cholesterol esters.


 dont mean to jump in on someones question but for someone weighing around 86kg with low bodyfat,,, would 70-85 grams be ok or too much??


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo hi mate bit of a silly one here I guess lol but I recently had to take a long break from the gym ( 12 weeks ) now going back is giving me insane doms.

Like the first time you ever trained biceps and for a week could not straighten your arm lol.

Anyway im wondering if training whilst like that or trying to stretch the muscle out is dangerous ? like could I rupture/tear anything ?

Is there anything I should be doing to mitigate this or help recover quicker ?

thank you for any reply. @ghost.recon


----------



## ghost.recon

Whoremoan1 said:


> dont mean to jump in on someones question but for someone weighing around 86kg with low bodyfat,,, would 70-85 grams be ok or too much??


 I can't tell you that based on just your weight


----------



## swole troll

thoughts on allowing oestrogen to run high whilst on tren

ive heard tren really shines in a high oestrogen environment (similar to dbol)

lots of cattle studies to back this but obviously animal vs human study results can vary massively


----------



## GeordieOak70

swole troll said:


> thoughts on allowing oestrogen to run high whilst on tren
> 
> ive heard tren really shines in a high oestrogen environment (similar to dbol)
> 
> lots of cattle studies to back this but obviously animal vs human study results can vary massively


 Im currently on 250-300 test with 375 tren ace and no ai so will see how it pans out mate.


----------



## swole troll

GeordieOak70 said:


> Im currently on 250-300 test with 375 tren ace and no ai so will see how it pans out mate.


 im on 500mg test and 400mg tren E

taking 1/4 tab aromasin EOD

got a meet in 3 and a bit weeks and im thinking of dropping all AI

libido already f**ked anyway


----------



## GeordieOak70

swole troll said:


> im on 500mg test and 400mg tren E
> 
> taking 1/4 tab aromasin EOD
> 
> got a meet in 3 and a bit weeks and im thinking of dropping all AI
> 
> libido already f**ked anyway


 My libido is still insane 4 shags 3 bj's last few days im still after it lol.


----------



## swole troll

GeordieOak70 said:


> My libido is still insane 4 shags 3 bj's last few days im still after it lol.


 loads of people speak of this with tren but with every ratio, AI, test levels, tren levels ect 
my libido is s**t on tren


----------



## GeordieOak70

swole troll said:


> loads of people speak of this with tren but with every ratio, AI, test levels, tren levels ect
> my libido is s**t on tren


 To be honest ive only noticed it on tren ace as before I ran e or tri tren. This is the best tren run ive had only into week 3 insane appetite and hardness.

The winny also helping a lot im looking slightly leaner and im 5lb up on scales so im happy as training is poor with these doms im suffering due to 12 week layoff.


----------



## ghost.recon

swole troll said:


> thoughts on allowing oestrogen to run high whilst on tren
> 
> ive heard tren really shines in a high oestrogen environment (similar to dbol)
> 
> lots of cattle studies to back this but obviously animal vs human study results can vary massively


 I personally think it's a load of rubbish.


----------



## SlinMeister

swole troll said:


> loads of people speak of this with tren but with every ratio, AI, test levels, tren levels ect
> my libido is s**t on tren


 Mine is s**t too on Tren ..


----------



## swole troll

SlinMeister said:


> Mine is s**t too on Tren ..


 real head scratcher when i see all these people like "my mrs cant handle me on tren" ect

im like f**k my mrs cant handle me either because she thinks im cheating or gay when ive got a headache 7 nights a week


----------



## SlinMeister

ghost.recon said:


> You don't need high amounts of fat for cell membrane repair, you need some yes but not much.
> 
> Considering the size of a cell and the fat needed for each cell membrane, you're looking at picomoles per cell.
> 
> Specifically you're looking at 0.45mg of lipids per 10 million cells, and that is just one cell type, namely fibroblasts which is one of the most abundant cell types in the human body. Cells such as neurons will need more for maintaining myelin.
> 
> Fats are needed for other processes such as hormone production but consuming lower amounts of fat does not mean you will affect cell membrane repair and development or hormone production.
> 
> In the presence of depleted amounts of lipids, cells can actually derive their own lipids by de novo synthesis from glucose.
> 
> Dave Palumbo is wrong, afterall he didn't even graduate from university, his knowledge is limited and one dimensional. He fails to realise that lipid metabolism has several pathways.
> 
> In the context of AAS, you don't actually need that many fats in your diet. AAS will typically raise serum cholesterol levels anyways and the average cell can use 21% of serum cholesterol.
> 
> People in bodybuilding think they are smart when really their knowledge is very basic. It's stuff like this that can kill. Only because you read the first page of a book or the abstract of a journal does not mean you have a degree in biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, endocrinology and all the other core subjects required for understanding human physiology. I only have a few of these under my belt but it doesn't mean I stop studying. Don't rely on the words of others as gospel, hey don't even rely on mine. Do your own research. But I'm happy to give my 2 cents if it helps.
> 
> Lookat Mike Matarazzo who consumed excessive amounts of red meat which no doubt contributed to his heart complications, I imagine his arteries were severely calcified and he was riddled with atherosclerosis. Look as Dallas mcarvers autopsy, his arteries were messed up, of course he did have other pre-existing medical conditions but AAS, diet, lack of safety measures and medical intervention contributed to his death.
> 
> I use the terms "fats" and "lipids" interchangeably. Just to clarify, this is a general term that describes all different components ie. Cholesterol, phospholipids, fatty acids, triglycerides, and cholesterol esters.


 But Palumbo talks about eating a lot of omega3/6 fats....

Arash Rahbar eats lots of fats too...

Also that new guy that will compete into Olympia Classic next year, Wesley Vissers eats tons of them...

I have noticed to work better on low carb environment too... On high carbs man my hunger is insane and can't stick to any diet... And I eat just oats, rice and sweet potatoes... not to mention that on high carbs I look bloated as hell.... And my E2 is always kept under 50pg/ml.


----------



## SlinMeister

swole troll said:


> real head scratcher when i see all these people like "my mrs cant handle me on tren" ect
> 
> im like f**k my mrs cant handle me either because she thinks im cheating or gay when ive got a headache 7 nights a week


 I also checked my PRL and it's perfect but libido sucks... Uff...


----------



## swole troll

@ghost.recon how long can one safely run humalog every other day for? (peri workout usage)


----------



## MrBishi

GeordieOak70 said:


> My libido is still insane 4 shags 3 bj's last few days im still after it lol.


 Mines crazy on Tren too (350/525 Test/Tren no AI), though libido is a lot higher with Ace compared to Enanthate.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Have you seen of any data or anything to suggest of negative health implications
> 
> from long term caffeine consumption?
> 
> Just how 'safe' are typical stimulants found in preworkouts?


 No, as long as consumption is limited to 3-4 cups. There are many more benefits to your health. Decrease in risk of diabetes, alzheimers, parkinsons, depression and even erectile dysfunction.

The stimulants are safe when used responsibly, if you have any pre-existing heart conditions you need to really respect stimulants as your risk of acute events like heart attack and stroke is elevated while the stimulant is active.

Caffeine use is akin to hormesis, it's a stressor to your body, your body adapts by upregulating parasympathetic responses in your body IE the upregulation of adenosine receptors.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> yeh its just crazy, ive asked the doc countless times to do lc/ms on estradial... i saw it on the blood script so i know he did write it .... the lady taking my blood even called the lab double checking it will be done in LC/MS... but i got the results 2 days back , and thats too quick.... once i got results back for LC/MS for DHT, and it was 4x over the normal limit... it came on a different looking result page so i knew my previous estro attempts were default ECLIA method..... but after talking to the blood doc/scientist from the lab , he said i have to state the code name as MASS SPEC estradiol..... so hopefully that worked as LC/MS estradiol never has...... its like they avoided doing it because i had wrong code name ? even though they knew what i meant.... because apparently they dont have lc/ms testing method at lab i go through but they have to search for a place that does... maybe im making them work harder than they want to lol


 Doc's offices are a bunch of cu**s 70% of time. I don't know why.

LC/MS means liquid chromatography/Mass spectometry.

They are a bunch of lazy f**kers, believe you me. I have to deal with them daily.


----------



## ghost.recon

SlinMeister said:


> But Palumbo talks about eating a lot of omega3/6 fats....
> 
> Arash Rahbar eats lots of fats too...
> 
> Also that new guy that will compete into Olympia Classic next year, Wesley Vissers eats tons of them...
> 
> I have noticed to work better on low carb environment too... On high carbs man my hunger is insane and can't stick to any diet... And I eat just oats, rice and sweet potatoes... not to mention that on high carbs I look bloated as hell.... And my E2 is always kept under 50pg/ml.


 I'm not sure you read everything I wrote. Bloating is a intestinal gut issue nothing to do with carbs, unless you're eating huge amounts then that's just call being full.

Try tracking you're calories, you might not be eating enough. There are 9 calories per gram of fat so it's easier to hit your macros if fats are high.

Western diets are typically high in omega 6, it is something we often eat too much of, we don't need to supplement with it anymore. Omega 6 can also be pro inflammatory and can contribute to increased susceptibility to developing various diseases.

I see no benefit in consuming more than what's needed for normal health. I see more bad then good.


----------



## ghost.recon

swole troll said:


> @ghost.recon how long can one safely run humalog every other day for? (peri workout usage)


 Providing correct BG control, and moderate dosing, as long as you want, no longer term issues, diabetics are on it for life, the ones they need insulin that is


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Hey el chapo.
> 
> Coming back from some time off both training and gear due to a torn rotator cuff. I have put on some fat, so my priority is to cut.
> 
> 1 - Normally this would be done during a cruise however this time I came off completely - so I'm thinking I can build muscle and lose fat when I add the gear and training back in - would you agree? ie 'grow into the show'
> 
> 2 - not going to run a terribly heavy cycle as once the cut is over ill increase dosage and bulk in order to take advantage of the rebound. I'm thinking 500mg test E, 400mg Tren E, 50mg winstrol per day and 4iu GH per day. Once bulking this will be increased to 1000-1200mg test E, 600mg+ Tren E and 100mg winstrol. Does this sounds okay or a bit too much?
> 
> 3 - Was planning on following your high carb/low fat approach as the Tren should help my ability to utilize carbs (I usually have to go low carb as I don't metabolize them very well I assume). Dave palumbo recommends the complete opposite of what you say due to keeping insulin low and such - do you not agree and why? In addition he says carbs are absolutely NOT necessary to build muscle rather just a fuel source for exercise. Where as fats are NECESSARY to build muscle because of muscle cells containing a membrane or fascia or whatever. So if my diet is like 30-40g fat (from indirect sources) can I still build muscle?


 1- Yeah, you could actually cut and regain your muscle while cutting. I've done it many times before. There is no guarantee, but if your diet and training is on point, it can happen.

2- That sounds pretty good actually

3- Muscles grow best when their glycogen stores are full. When glycogen is depleted, the body gets a response akin to starvation, even if calories are high enough. Carbs are the most efficient fuel for performance AND growth. I'm sure you personally know some guys who have gotten huge on low fat chicken and brown rice diet. Fat/protein are the least efficient fuels in the body, this is why they are a last resort that it will tap into only when necessary. That last bit about the fascia is probably some of the worst broscience that i have ever had the pleasure to read. Of course you can build muscle, a s**t ton of bodybuilders have built muscle on chicken/rice diet. I don't advocate this bland diet but it works for a reason.

Try the high carb approach for yourself and see. I wouldn't waste my time with the high fat bullshit palumbo is spewing, but it's up to you.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Dave says carbs are t needed by the body and that's correct..... However they are still a preferred source of enegery. I've done Daves ckd and loved it every time, I seem to cut very week, very easily with under 20g of carbs, yet when I stick to the same cals and mix macros up it isn't as effective (for me) following this reply from elchapo with interest.


 Some guys love low carb and but i wouldn't touch it for bulking. Only cutting. I prefer high carb for bulking and cutting. I've gone over the rationale extensively in previous posts.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> 1. how important is WPI straight after training if im having bcaa intra workout? am i just wasting calories i could be eating 30 mins later? or is there some major merit to it ?
> 
> 2. swapping test esters during long bulks a good idea? say for test / tren e / eq ,,,, changing the test ester every 8-10 weeks? so test e first, then sus 250, then test cyp? keeping test dosage the same at 600 mg .... is this a good idea , will it shock the body into more growth or am i just over complicating things? lol
> 
> 3. how often do you snack on say a bag of chips or a snack instead of a whole food cheat meal ? (during bulk)
> 
> 4. any supplements or medines that are not as popular that can make huge differences? i saw phil heath swears by colostrum and says its extremely underrated/underused ... are there any more most of us are missing?
> 
> as a side note,,, an extremely interesting individual you may like is brad clarke, you can find interviews with him on the podcast "muscle radio with scott goble" (they do a few episodes with him on various topics) .... he even researches the companies doing the research as some research is incredibly biased or the scientists are hired by the company itself to write good stuff haha ( think bayer did this with studies on androgens?)


 1- You're muscle already have amino acids for fuel but i would still try to get a high glycemic+moderate protein meal in right after training. You want that insulin spike+protein.

2-Nah, this is 100% bullshit. I will say that i prefer propionate. In my personal experience, it is more potent for muscle building, energy/drive and a lot less bloat. This is purely anecdotal.

3-My main priority on a bulk is to hit my calorie and protein goal, if chips falls into that category, i will eat them. There is no reason to eat only 100% whole foods, my staple for bulking is sugary breakfast cereals with skim milk. Lots of carbs and protein for growth, easy to pound down a lot, and strong insulin spike. I order the cereals by the bulk from amazon because i would go through it so quickly

4-Mostly make sure vitamin D levels are good, make sure zinc/magnesium intake is good. Pycnogenol/pine bark extract+curcumin are the ones i always recommend. Very very potent supplements.

Yeah you always need to look at studies objectively because the person funding it will basically pay for the results they want to see.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> dont mean to jump in on someones question but for someone weighing around 86kg with low bodyfat,,, would 70-85 grams be ok or too much??


 Generally, for a natural person. 50 grams is where testosterone production is maximized. I would say 25-50 grams will do the job.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo hi mate bit of a silly one here I guess lol but I recently had to take a long break from the gym ( 12 weeks ) now going back is giving me insane doms.
> 
> Like the first time you ever trained biceps and for a week could not straighten your arm lol.
> 
> Anyway im wondering if training whilst like that or trying to stretch the muscle out is dangerous ? like could I rupture/tear anything ?
> 
> Is there anything I should be doing to mitigate this or help recover quicker ?
> 
> thank you for any reply. @ghost.recon


 You can train through it, training will actually help the damage heal faster but if it is severe keep it light to get the blood fllowing. As you know, the DOMS resolves itself and never really comes back unless you change the training intensity and stimuli significantly.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> thoughts on allowing oestrogen to run high whilst on tren
> 
> ive heard tren really shines in a high oestrogen environment (similar to dbol)
> 
> lots of cattle studies to back this but obviously animal vs human study results can vary massively


 I would keep E2 in physiological range, the risk of elevated BP, gyno, and significant mood disturbances is greatly elevated when E2 is left rampant. It's not worth the risk in my opinion, especially as you said the cattle physiology is different from our own.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> But Palumbo talks about eating a lot of omega3/6 fats....
> 
> Arash Rahbar eats lots of fats too...
> 
> Also that new guy that will compete into Olympia Classic next year, Wesley Vissers eats tons of them...
> 
> I have noticed to work better on low carb environment too... On high carbs man my hunger is insane and can't stick to any diet... And I eat just oats, rice and sweet potatoes... not to mention that on high carbs I look bloated as hell.... And my E2 is always kept under 50pg/ml.


 You need to eat protein with every meal on higher carb and it will control hunger. That is one of the benefits of high carb since many guys have trouble eating enough calories.

You're not going to look your prettiest during many bulks, face will be more bloated as well stomach, etc. Bulking is for increasing muscle mass, cutting and maintenance is when you look good. You can limit how s**t you look by keeping your bulk under 15% bodyfat, but for optimal muscle growth, you need carbs. Everyone does their own thing though.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 1- You're muscle already have amino acids for fuel but i would still try to get a high glycemic+moderate protein meal in right after training. You want that insulin spike+protein.
> 
> 2-Nah, this is 100% bullshit. I will say that i prefer propionate. In my personal experience, it is more potent for muscle building, energy/drive and a lot less bloat. This is purely anecdotal.
> 
> 3-My main priority on a bulk is to hit my calorie and protein goal, if chips falls into that category, i will eat them. There is no reason to eat only 100% whole foods, my staple for bulking is sugary breakfast cereals with skim milk. Lots of carbs and protein for growth, easy to pound down a lot, and strong insulin spike. I order the cereals by the bulk from amazon because i would go through it so quickly
> 
> 4-Mostly make sure vitamin D levels are good, make sure zinc/magnesium intake is good. Pycnogenol/pine bark extract+curcumin are the ones i always recommend. Very very potent supplements.
> 
> Yeah you always need to look at studies objectively because the person funding it will basically pay for the results they want to see.


 you honestly have no idea how much youve helped me... one day i will hopefully pay you back,,,, muchly appreciated brother


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

What dose of vitamin k2 mk7 do you recommend. Is there a concern of toxicity with higher levels like vitamin d


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> 1- Yeah, you could actually cut and regain your muscle while cutting. I've done it many times before. There is no guarantee, but if your diet and training is on point, it can happen.
> 
> 2- That sounds pretty good actually
> 
> 3- Muscles grow best when their glycogen stores are full. When glycogen is depleted, the body gets a response akin to starvation, even if calories are high enough. Carbs are the most efficient fuel for performance AND growth. I'm sure you personally know some guys who have gotten huge on low fat chicken and brown rice diet. Fat/protein are the least efficient fuels in the body, this is why they are a last resort that it will tap into only when necessary. That last bit about the fascia is probably some of the worst broscience that i have ever had the pleasure to read. Of course you can build muscle, a s**t ton of bodybuilders have built muscle on chicken/rice diet. I don't advocate this bland diet but it works for a reason.
> 
> Try the high carb approach for yourself and see. I wouldn't waste my time with the high fat bullshit palumbo is spewing, but it's up to you.


 Cheers @ElChapo - Gonna try your way as you seem a lot more credible than him haha.

Really appreciate you taking the time mate!


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> you honestly have no idea how much youve helped me... one day i will hopefully pay you back,,,, muchly appreciated brother


 Glad to help brother, that's what i like to hear.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What dose of vitamin k2 mk7 do you recommend. Is there a concern of toxicity with higher levels like vitamin d


 Life Extension Super K with Advanced K2 Complex 90 softgels https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GW4S0G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_1t8RAb78ZD2JV

usually 90 mcg

This is my favorite product as it contains all three forms of vitamin K.

Each one is best at something different, so i like to take all three.

Typically, overdose doesnt happen with vitamin K as it can with vitamin d because of what vitamin does in the body. Vitamin k2 activates certain proteins, but once maximal activation happens, you get no further effect from taking more. Specifically matrix gla proteins which help form bone, and carboxylation of proteins that help encourage healthy clotting.

Too much vitamin K will never lead to excess clotting or blood clots.

The blood thinner coumadin/warfarin works by inhibiting vitamin K activity in the body, which reduces those clotting proteins in the body.


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Cheers @ElChapo - Gonna try your way as you seem a lot more credible than him haha.
> 
> Really appreciate you taking the time mate!


 When you teach something, you're "learning it twice".


----------



## Pancake'

Lowest effective dose of Tren a for a first run? IIRC correctly, I think you suggested 150-200mg?

Thoughts on salts for performance enhancement? Specifically pink himilayan salt,

this is a new addition for me, I use 1g in a

pre workout, mixed with 5mg monohydrate,

before even training, I'm pumped, feel fuller/more dense.

If you could do your first cycle again,

what would you do differently, knowing what you know now?


----------



## DORIAN

Hi mate, what would you say is the best things you could ingest for heart health? Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Lowest effective dose of Tren a for a first run? IIRC correctly, I think you suggested 150-200mg?
> 
> Thoughts on salts for performance enhancement? Specifically pink himilayan salt,
> 
> this is a new addition for me, I use 1g in a
> 
> pre workout, mixed with 5mg monohydrate,
> 
> before even training, I'm pumped, feel fuller/more dense.
> 
> If you could do your first cycle again,
> 
> what would you do differently, knowing what you know now?


 150 mg of good tren ace/200 mg tren e per week.

Salt; don't try to avoid it. That's all you really need. especially if you sweat a lot. Nothing really else to say about it.

First cycle went well but i would have done prop instead of enanthate. Prop is what i always imagined testosterone would feel like. my friends have noticed the same thing. not a fan of the moon face at higher body fat and carb intake either.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo thoughts on adding DHB 1 test cyp to TTM, worth the price? 400mg pw


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo thoughts on adding DHB 1 test cyp to TTM, worth the price? 400mg pw


 I would do test, tren, DHB in place of mast. It's a better overall AAS than masteron. Masteron is mostly for polishing, but winstrol/DHB are more effective even in that regard.

Sure you can add it to TTM though. 300 mg will do the job.


----------



## ghost.recon

DORIAN said:


> Hi mate, what would you say is the best things you could ingest for heart health? Cheers


 Cardio


----------



## orangeandpears

ElChapo said:


> I would do test, tren, DHB in place of mast. It's a better overall AAS than masteron. Masteron is mostly for polishing, but winstrol/DHB are more effective even in that regard.
> 
> Sure you can add it to TTM though. 300 mg will do the job.


 What would the ideal length of the run be? prefer short esters atm bit awkward as can only get DHB with cyp ester


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

couple quick ones

1. If I'm pinning M/W/F test e , eq and tren e (ATM) would I be able to interchange this with tren a? Taking into account; ester timings and peaks .... As in would tren a m w f give better results for lean bulking than tren e ? Or exactly the same.... If only benefit of tren e is less pinning then it's no benefit for me as I'm already pinning it 3x a week ?

2, is there anything out there that supress appetite ?? I literally have to keep myself busy at all times or I need food , currently eating 3500 clean cals and could easily double that ... I'm doing 20-40 mins low intense cardio ED after meals as I'll be starving 15 mins after I finish it lol I do train extremely hard , 6 days a week , about an hour 30 each session .. I have a physical job .... Energy and recovery is extremely good ,, strength is going up ... just can't stop this hunger ,, there's gotta be something that can suppress my appetite??? phentermine is the only thing I've tried that worked , but I hate the wired feeling , is there anything else ?


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

What's your view on using cbd oil as a vapour for pain relief


----------



## Chelsea

@ElChapo alright mate, was wondering if you had any experience with the last week of contest prep, specifically carbing up.

Is there any kinda rule or ratio that could help you work out how many grams of carbs one might need to take on depending on bodyweight without risking spilling over and holding excess water?

Obvsiously i know that you have to be lean and ready first, but assuming i am, what would you recommend, or do you have any good articles i could read to help me along the way.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> What would the ideal length of the run be? prefer short esters atm bit awkward as can only get DHB with cyp ester


 12-16 weeks is not a bad run


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hi mate, what would you say is the best things you could ingest for heart health? Cheers


 Honestly, if you're doing cardio, this is really number one.

However, pycnogenol and curcumin are very potent anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory compounds. COQ10 can be good as you get older. Omega-3 is good albeit overrated.

Nothing beats cardio, its potency is akin to pharmaceuticals for many different pathologies including depression, blood pressure and diabetes.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> couple quick ones
> 
> 1. If I'm pinning M/W/F test e , eq and tren e (ATM) would I be able to interchange this with tren a? Taking into account; ester timings and peaks .... As in would tren a m w f give better results for lean bulking than tren e ? Or exactly the same.... If only benefit of tren e is less pinning then it's no benefit for me as I'm already pinning it 3x a week ?
> 
> 2, is there anything out there that supress appetite ?? I literally have to keep myself busy at all times or I need food , currently eating 3500 clean cals and could easily double that ... I'm doing 20-40 mins low intense cardio ED after meals as I'll be starving 15 mins after I finish it lol I do train extremely hard , 6 days a week , about an hour 30 each session .. I have a physical job .... Energy and recovery is extremely good ,, strength is going up ... just can't stop this hunger ,, there's gotta be something that can suppress my appetite??? phentermine is the only thing I've tried that worked , but I hate the wired feeling , is there anything else ?


 1. I do prefer shorter esters for a couple of personal reasons. I'm a slow responder to long esters and they take 6 weeks to really feel and see. I feel short esters are more potent in terms of effects and they seem to be a lot better at drying me out and keeping me more cut. I actually run M, W, F for my short esters. If you can help it, pin your friday dose at night and your monday dose in the morning, that way there is less delay. You would see max benefit in pinning E3D for enanthate, more frequency has no benefits. Fast metabolizers like me dont do as well with every 7 day injections as seen by bloods. (very low 7 day trough levels even on moderate doses.)

2- For appetite, EC stack is very effective. Other wise, increase the protein content of every meal. Replace whey shakes with casein. I think in your case increasing protein will do the trick, just make sure you have a protein with every meal.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's your view on using cbd oil as a vapour for pain relief


 No personal experience, but i've seen patients do well on it. It's use is gaining a lot momentum in the medical community, i think it might be big soon.


----------



## ElChapo

Chelsea said:


> @ElChapo alright mate, was wondering if you had any experience with the last week of contest prep, specifically carbing up.
> 
> Is there any kinda rule or ratio that could help you work out how many grams of carbs one might need to take on depending on bodyweight without risking spilling over and holding excess water?
> 
> Obvsiously i know that you have to be lean and ready first, but assuming i am, what would you recommend, or do you have any good articles i could read to help me along the way.


 One method is a dry refeed, wherein you refeed with very little water and fluids.

I would ask @ghost.recon for specifics, this is more his subject matter.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo could you think of any reason why I go hypo when I go long without food ? Ive had tests for diabetes and was ok but I seem very sensitive to glucose.

If im not sipping a Gatorade or lucozade when I train I can hypo and on a morning I have to eat within 20 mins of waking or I hypo ?

Any idea why I am going to get an apt at the docs but just thought id chuck it out here incase you knew anything thanks mate.


----------



## DORIAN

ghost.recon said:


> Cardio


 Ha ha yes mate I do enough, that's why I said Ingest, but Its excellent and essential that people stick to the basics


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, if you're doing cardio, this is really number one.
> 
> However, pycnogenol and curcumin are very potent anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory compounds. COQ10 can be good as you get older. Omega-3 is good albeit overrated.
> 
> Nothing beats cardio, its potency is akin to pharmaceuticals for many different pathologies including depression, blood pressure and diabetes.


 Curcumin, any perticular type mate?


----------



## Dr Gearhead

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo could you think of any reason why I go hypo when I go long without food ? Ive had tests for diabetes and was ok but I seem very sensitive to glucose.
> 
> If im not sipping a Gatorade or lucozade when I train I can hypo and on a morning I have to eat within 20 mins of waking or I hypo ?
> 
> Any idea why I am going to get an apt at the docs but just thought id chuck it out here incase you knew anything thanks mate.


 Tren makes me go hypo regularly but it's something I've always suffered with. Seems to come in boughts of a couple of weeks routine hypos then I'm ok for a bit. I have found not having carbs in my first meal seems to help but I still get them. I am ok until I start eating, I can intermittent fast ok.

I seem to suffer worse when carbs are high even if I eat regularly which made me wonder if it was something to do with insulin sensitivity so I have been taking Berberine regularly on this bulk but have still suffered with them.


----------



## GeordieOak70

Dr Gearhead said:


> Tren makes me go hypo regularly but it's something I've always suffered with. Seems to come in boughts of a couple of weeks routine hypos then I'm ok for a bit. I have found not having carbs in my first meal seems to help but I still get them. I am ok until I start eating, I can intermittent fast ok.
> 
> I seem to suffer worse when carbs are high even if I eat regularly which made me wonder if it was something to do with insulin sensitivity so I have been taking Berberine regularly on this bulk but have still suffered with them.


 That's interesting about insulin sensitivity because im actually better with high carbs, I cant run tren on low carbs for more than a week lol.

The more regular I eat the less chance of a hypo for me and I need something sugary during a workout or I go then.

Ive actually passed out before in the gym changing rooms I remember sweating really bad like running down my back and off my arms then I woke up on the floor lol.

Some guy had seen me and went and got chocolate got me to eat it and drink a redbull and I was fine in 10 mins but horrible experience.

I suffer this on only test at a cruise dose but much worse on a blast especially with tren in the mix.


----------



## stewedw

^^^^^this. Tren makes me go hypo for the last 12 months when I've ran it on two seperate occasions. Same as you, I've eaten regular, not on a deficit but the shakes and sweats followed by almost blacking out. A monster and sugar helped straight away.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> 1. I do prefer shorter esters for a couple of personal reasons. I'm a slow responder to long esters and they take 6 weeks to really feel and see. I feel short esters are more potent in terms of effects and they seem to be a lot better at drying me out and keeping me more cut. I actually run M, W, F for my short esters. If you can help it, pin your friday dose at night and your monday dose in the morning, that way there is less delay. You would see max benefit in pinning E3D for enanthate, more frequency has no benefits. Fast metabolizers like me dont do as well with every 7 day injections as seen by bloods. (very low 7 day trough levels even on moderate doses.)
> 
> 2- For appetite, EC stack is very effective. Other wise, increase the protein content of every meal. Replace whey shakes with casein. I think in your case increasing protein will do the trick, just make sure you have a protein with every meal.


 How to increase the appetite?. What you do to push calories?


----------



## superdrol

Jordan08 said:


> How to increase the appetite?. What you do to push calories?


 Covered loads in here, eat simpler foods, cereals with milk, white rice, easy to digest carbs, I like pancakes with lemon and sugar, I can eat 800 calories easily (3 large eggs, 125g flour, 250ml milk)


----------



## Jordan08

superdrol said:


> Covered loads in here, eat simpler foods, cereals with milk, white rice, easy to digest carbs, I like pancakes with lemon and sugar, I can eat 800 calories easily (3 large eggs, 125g flour, 250ml milk)


 I understand what to eat for high calories mate. My concern was any aid to increase appetite.


----------



## superdrol

Jordan08 said:


> I understand what to eat for high calories mate. My concern was any aid to increase appetite.


 There is a peptide I believe which increases appetite mk-677 which is an oral version of GHRP-6 which is an injectable and stimulates appetite from memory


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo could you think of any reason why I go hypo when I go long without food ? Ive had tests for diabetes and was ok but I seem very sensitive to glucose.
> 
> If im not sipping a Gatorade or lucozade when I train I can hypo and on a morning I have to eat within 20 mins of waking or I hypo ?
> 
> Any idea why I am going to get an apt at the docs but just thought id chuck it out here incase you knew anything thanks mate.


 Reactive hypoglycemia, it happens to healthy people including my GF.

Do you check your blood glucose when you feel this way or just going by symptoms?


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Curcumin, any perticular type mate?


 I go with regular standardized extract and add 5 mg piperine.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> That's interesting about insulin sensitivity because im actually better with high carbs, I cant run tren on low carbs for more than a week lol.
> 
> The more regular I eat the less chance of a hypo for me and I need something sugary during a workout or I go then.
> 
> Ive actually passed out before in the gym changing rooms I remember sweating really bad like running down my back and off my arms then I woke up on the floor lol.
> 
> Some guy had seen me and went and got chocolate got me to eat it and drink a redbull and I was fine in 10 mins but horrible experience.
> 
> I suffer this on only test at a cruise dose but much worse on a blast especially with tren in the mix.





stewedw said:


> ^^^^^this. Tren makes me go hypo for the last 12 months when I've ran it on two seperate occasions. Same as you, I've eaten regular, not on a deficit but the shakes and sweats followed by almost blacking out. A monster and sugar helped straight away.





Dr Gearhead said:


> Tren makes me go hypo regularly but it's something I've always suffered with. Seems to come in boughts of a couple of weeks routine hypos then I'm ok for a bit. I have found not having carbs in my first meal seems to help but I still get them. I am ok until I start eating, I can intermittent fast ok.
> 
> I seem to suffer worse when carbs are high even if I eat regularly which made me wonder if it was something to do with insulin sensitivity so I have been taking Berberine regularly on this bulk but have still suffered with them.


 Tren has done this to me as well. It's fairly common, likely due to making the cells more sensitive to insulin.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> How to increase the appetite?. What you do to push calories?


 Pushing calories is easiest with simple carbs like sugary cereal, breads+dairy products like milk.

Add a couple of bowls of your favorite cereal with skim milk to all your meals, you should have a much easier time getting your calories in.

Sometimes bulking is harder than cutting when you've been on a surplus for a long time. Keep your diet creative and eat foods that you really enjoy.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Covered loads in here, eat simpler foods, cereals with milk, white rice, easy to digest carbs, I like pancakes with lemon and sugar, I can eat 800 calories easily (3 large eggs, 125g flour, 250ml milk)


 Exactly this, you can always burn off the fat later. Keep your surplus reasonable.

If you stay around 15% bf you wont be too long away from being lean.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo hi mate

Re above cardio and heart health etc

any specific type? low/high intensity and recommended amount?

or more the better tbh?

Thanks


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Reactive hypoglycemia, it happens to healthy people including my GF.
> 
> Do you check your blood glucose when you feel this way or just going by symptoms?


 With my father being diabetic I have checked and im always low around 4 I suspect this could be why ?


----------



## Pancake'

What causes Tren cough?


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 1. I do prefer shorter esters for a couple of personal reasons. I'm a slow responder to long esters and they take 6 weeks to really feel and see. I feel short esters are more potent in terms of effects and they seem to be a lot better at drying me out and keeping me more cut. I actually run M, W, F for my short esters. If you can help it, pin your friday dose at night and your monday dose in the morning, that way there is less delay. You would see max benefit in pinning E3D for enanthate, more frequency has no benefits. Fast metabolizers like me dont do as well with every 7 day injections as seen by bloods. (very low 7 day trough levels even on moderate doses.)
> 
> 2- For appetite, EC stack is very effective. Other wise, increase the protein content of every meal. Replace whey shakes with casein. I think in your case increasing protein will do the trick, just make sure you have a protein with every meal.


 thanks brother, yep im having protein with every meal ,, current macros are 260g protein/ 380g carbs/ 80g fat

1. my current stack is test e 600mg/ 600mg eq/ 400 tren a.... taper up dbol slowly currently at 70mg with 50mg stana..no ai so far, just nolva... feeling extremely good as i said... weight is creeping up,, not as much water retention as i expected , only a tiny bit! .... but i was wondering if swapping the dbol for adrol would be an idea to squash hunger also ? or is this a wrong approach ? should i just keep as is??

2. also got about 4 vials of tren e i just bought, about to stock up again on other products.... should i save swapping out tren e for a a bit later on? possibly a couple months ? or is the benefit enough to warrant swapping to tren a asap lol? what you do ?

3. also if you were stocking up what other oils/tabs what would you include... i usually just stockpile tests, tren, eq , stanna..... and mast in diet phase.... do you think i should get npp-ive tried deca and hated it!, but never tried npp.... was wondering if adding low dose npp on top of current cycle at some point would be wise?,,,, or should i stick with the same and just slowly increase dose when needed? heard npp and tren have great synergy ,,, AND also do you rate anavar at all alongeside stanna or during stanna breaks, should anavar be in ones stockpile ?? just dont want to be really taking everything under the sun -- trying to keep it simple ...but always good to experiement ... need someone like you with better experience and knowledge to guide me  hard to gauge whats overboard when i have no ranges to go by

4. also know someone with a roman spectrometer who offers testing for a fee... how accurate are these? what results can they give.... he me mentioned 100% of the tren e he tested was actually tren a (this is why im interested in swapping to tren a also) and majority of everything else is just test e.... whats your thoughts on this? is he just trying to make business or do you think this could be true.... all tren e being tren a sounds a bit off, youd think atleast 1 lab would produce a good tren e? whats your thoughts?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo hi mate
> 
> Re above cardio and heart health etc
> 
> any specific type? low/high intensity and recommended amount?
> 
> or more the better tbh?
> 
> Thanks


 Low and high intensity create different adaptations to cardiovascular performance. Generally, i recommend low intensity as it will not interfere with CNS and muscle recovery as much as HIIT. I do love combat sports (muay, boxing, jiujitsu, wrestling) for the fact that they combine the whole spectrum of intensities while engaging the mind so they aren't boring like jogging, etc.

Low intensity specifically leads to higher stroke volume and keeps the heart and arteries supple and elastic. HIIT increases V02 max and heart contractility which makes circulation more efficient. HIIT can give you a of both, and you can kill two birds with one stone in a shorter amount of time. So they are both very good for you.

Too much cardio and too much intensity is counter-productive and won't just make you feel like s**t and impair performance and recovery in life and in the gym, but can also negatively affect your cardiovascular health. Many ultra marathon runners have ran into many heart problems, so just like anything, moderation is key.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> With my father being diabetic I have checked and im always low around 4 I suspect this could be why ?


 Ah, you're using mmol/l. Typically people use the mg/dl unit. A level of 4 is normal and healthy. I like the mg/dl reading as it can be more specific (70-100 mg/dL is a healthy range in this unit)


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What causes Tren cough?


 It seems to happen when some of the oil gets into the blood stream. It can happen with other compounds as well. Some believe it's the solvents or the oil itself. I'm not entirely sure. I've seen the prostaglandin theory and i don't buy it at all.


----------



## stargazer

ElChapo said:


> It seems to happen when some of the oil gets into the blood stream. It can happen with other compounds as well. Some believe it's the solvents or the oil itself. I'm not entirely sure. I've seen the prostaglandin theory and i don't buy it at all.


 It can indeed happen with other meds, i have had it happen once using Norma test and like you, thought it was some oil getting in the blood stream but this doesn't explain why it is so much more prevalent with tren, psychosomatic maybe? thoughts?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> thanks brother, yep im having protein with every meal ,, current macros are 260g protein/ 380g carbs/ 80g fat
> 
> 1. my current stack is test e 600mg/ 600mg eq/ 400 tren a.... taper up dbol slowly currently at 70mg with 50mg stana..no ai so far, just nolva... feeling extremely good as i said... weight is creeping up,, not as much water retention as i expected , only a tiny bit! .... but i was wondering if swapping the dbol for adrol would be an idea to squash hunger also ? or is this a wrong approach ? should i just keep as is??
> 
> 2. also got about 4 vials of tren e i just bought, about to stock up again on other products.... should i save swapping out tren e for a a bit later on? possibly a couple months ? or is the benefit enough to warrant swapping to tren a asap lol? what you do ?
> 
> 3. also if you were stocking up what other oils/tabs what would you include... i usually just stockpile tests, tren, eq , stanna..... and mast in diet phase.... do you think i should get npp-ive tried deca and hated it!, but never tried npp.... was wondering if adding low dose npp on top of current cycle at some point would be wise?,,,, or should i stick with the same and just slowly increase dose when needed? heard npp and tren have great synergy ,,, AND also do you rate anavar at all alongeside stanna or during stanna breaks, should anavar be in ones stockpile ?? just dont want to be really taking everything under the sun -- trying to keep it simple ...but always good to experiement ... need someone like you with better experience and knowledge to guide me  hard to gauge whats overboard when i have no ranges to go by
> 
> 4. also know someone with a roman spectrometer who offers testing for a fee... how accurate are these? what results can they give.... he me mentioned 100% of the tren e he tested was actually tren a (this is why im interested in swapping to tren a also) and majority of everything else is just test e.... whats your thoughts on this? is he just trying to make business or do you think this could be true.... all tren e being tren a sounds a bit off, youd think atleast 1 lab would produce a good tren e? whats your thoughts?


 1- You can try the adrol or you can even add another 200 calories and see how that treats you. You might be hungry because your burning a lot more calories than you think.

2- Generally it won't make a difference, up to you.

3- If you hated deca, you MIGHT hate NPP. Some people get less water retention and it kicks in faster, but the general effect can be the same. Some people just don't feel right on nandrolone, but you can try it out if you want to. You can throw in the NPP at 300 mg or swap our half your EQ for 300 mg NPP. No, anavar doesn't even compare to winstrol. It's a whole different animal. I think anavar should be in every woman's stockpile for sure. I know the feeling and can see that you are an avid collector, it's fun trying out new compounds. In my opinion all any one would ever need is test, tren, winstrol and GH/insulin.

4- I don't know much about it , but if he knows how to use it and it's legit then go for it. I've tested all my homebrew stuff originally with just labmax, then moved on to LC/MS piss test you can buy on amazon. Every single compound passed, i had tested winstrol, npp, halotestin, dbol, masteron, tren. Of course, testosterone you can get blood work for. I'll tell you this, at most, tren a can hold at 150 mg per mL before crashing. I've made both tren E and tren A. Both were legit A and E as my tren E had crashed when i pushed it past 330 mg/mL. A good source should have no problem sourcing the right ester/compound raws.


----------



## ElChapo

Paceprotein said:


> It can indeed happen with other meds, i have had it happen once using Norma test and like you, thought it was some oil getting in the blood stream but this doesn't explain why it is so much more prevalent with tren, psychosomatic maybe? thoughts?


 It could be the tren itself increasing the irritation to the lungs. Some say tren tastes spicy ( i havent tasted it) but if it does, it would worsen the irritation from the oil/solvents. I've had tren cough only two times thankfully. It's a pretty nasty feeling.


----------



## stargazer

ElChapo said:


> It could be the tren itself increasing the irritation to the lungs. Some say tren tastes spicy ( i havent tasted it) but if it does, it would worsen the irritation from the oil/solvents. I've had tren cough only two times thankfully. It's a pretty nasty feeling.


 Interesting, it's one to ponder for sure.


----------



## superdrol

ElChapo said:


> It could be the tren itself increasing the irritation to the lungs. Some say tren tastes spicy ( i havent tasted it) but if it does, it would worsen the irritation from the oil/solvents. I've had tren cough only two times thankfully. It's a pretty nasty feeling.


 I had it 3 out of four tren e injections on my first cycle of tren, guess I'm unlucky... did wonder if it was somehow the tren getting in blood and acting like a Vasodilator in the lung lining, if I get it again I'll try a puff of salbutamol to see if it counteracts it


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> I had it 3 out of four tren e injections on my first cycle of tren, guess I'm unlucky... did wonder if it was somehow the tren getting in blood and acting like a Vasodilator in the lung lining, if I get it again I'll try a puff of salbutamol to see if it counteracts it


 It could be lung spasm/constriction from the irritation. I never payed it much thought since it never happens to me.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo Want to run mtren for my blast, what cycle length is okay toxicity wise, will only be using .5 or 1mg 4 times a week pre workout


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo Want to run mtren for my blast, what cycle length is okay toxicity wise, will only be using .5 or 1mg 4 times a week pre workout


 Oral or injectable?


----------



## orangeandpears

ElChapo said:


> Oral or injectable?


 can source either, might try the SG injectable if it lets me run it longer and if it's okay injecting 45mins-hour pre workout,

Are orals like winny or anadrol a no go whilst i'm using mtren?


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> can source either, might try the SG injectable if it lets me run it longer and if it's okay injecting 45mins-hour pre workout,
> 
> Are orals like winny or anadrol a no go whilst i'm using mtren?


 I have been enjoying the injectable orals, high bioavailability, longer half life and likely safer for the liver.

I would run injectable mtren/sdrol/winstrol to 8 weeks myself.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> One method is a dry refeed, wherein you refeed with very little water and fluids.
> 
> I would ask @ghost.recon for specifics, this is more his subject matter.


 Hire me as a prep coach


----------



## ghost.recon

Heart health is common sense. There are not meds that can give you a healthy heart. It is a muscle, so train that muscle and it becomes stronger by doing CARDIO


----------



## orangeandpears

ElChapo said:


> I have been enjoying the injectable orals, high bioavailability, longer half life and likely safer for the liver.
> 
> I would run injectable mtren/sdrol/winstrol to 8 weeks myself.


 damn 8 weeks superdrol sounds insane for a bulk, how you dosing that same as winny 1ml eod?


----------



## feelinfine

How long can I run tren for?

Last time I ran it at 300mg for 10wks with minimal sides. I am planning to run 400mg for 12 weeks this time around.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> damn 8 weeks superdrol sounds insane for a bulk, how you dosing that same as winny 1ml eod?


 It is very strong and even 10-20 mg daily can go a long way. Some people get very lethargic on it. I have even seen it pushed to 40 mg ED. Take it as far as you dare. 20 mg ED is a nice starting point.

Try not to measure or describe your cycles by mL since different UGL and esters have different concentrations per mL.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> How long can I run tren for?
> 
> Last time I ran it at 300mg for 10wks with minimal sides. I am planning to run 400mg for 12 weeks this time around.


 As long as you want , but on a serious note. People run this stuff year round, but the longer you are on without a break, the more permanent risk to your health you are taking.

A lot of this is genetics+lifestyle. A lot of these bodybuilders have legit longetivity genes and genetics that protect them from heart and liver disease. You can also greatly increase your chances of a positivr health outcome by doing regular cardio, keeping your blood pressure in range, keeping body fat at or under 15% and getting good sleep.

To answer the question, 12-16 weeks is a sensible cycle length. 3-4 months gives you ample time to pack on quality lean mass. I like to press the 16 weeks for the enanthates as they kick in quite slowly for me (6 weeks).


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo what's your opinion on bulking and cutting in the same cycle i.e 12 week bulk into 6-8 week cut as appose to just a pure 16-20 week bulk cycle, would i be better of doing pure bulk / cut cycles but be at a higher bf year round due to waiting to cut or splitting them in the same cycle for faster but maybe less optimal results.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo what's your opinion on bulking and cutting in the same cycle i.e 12 week bulk into 6-8 week cut as appose to just a pure 16-20 week bulk cycle, would i be better of doing pure bulk / cut cycles but be at a higher bf year round due to waiting to cut or splitting them in the same cycle for faster but maybe less optimal results.


 You can control BF by making sure you only bulk to 15% and cut down to 10% whenever you hit 15%.

Generally, a bulk should focus on a specific goal such as gaining a certain amount of lean mass and/or strength PR. You can easily save the cut for a lighter cycle or cruise dose.

To answer the question, it comes down to preference but i always recommend everyone stay at or under 15% for optimal health and aesthetics. You will never be to far from being lean/cut if you stay around 15%.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> To answer the question, 12-16 weeks is a sensible cycle length. 3-4 months gives you ample time to pack on quality lean mass. I like to press the 16 weeks for the enanthates as they kick in quite slowly for me (6 weeks).


 I keep hearing that you should stop tren 1-2 weeks before you stop running test to give time for it to clear your system. Is this just bro science or is there merit to this? Will be running enth for both test and tren.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> I keep hearing that you should stop tren 1-2 weeks before you stop running test to give time for it to clear your system. Is this just bro science or is there merit to this? Will be running enth for both test and tren.


 If the esters are the same, they take about the same amount of time to clear, so there's no point in waiting.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> If the esters are the same, they take about the same amount of time to clear, so there's no point in waiting.


 That's what I figured contrary to popular opinion. Another question I had was, can I store bacteriostatic water at room temp after piercing the top? Or does it need to be kept in the fridge. I also read mixed answers on this. The reason why I ask is, I was at the doctor's office the other day and saw a giant jug of it sitting around on a table. It was 2/3 full so it was definitely being used.

Thanks. This thread really should be stickied. Just reading through past pages and there is a wealth of information in here.


----------



## superdrol

feelinfine said:


> I keep hearing that you should stop tren 1-2 weeks before you stop running test to give time for it to clear your system. Is this just bro science or is there merit to this? Will be running enth for both test and tren.


 Probably a parallel to deca which is also a 19-nor and someone was missing the decanoate Ester being way longer than Enanthate hence stopping deca a few weeks before Enanthate


----------



## arbffgadm100

superdrol said:


> Probably a parallel to deca which is also a 19-nor and someone was missing the decanoate Ester being way longer than Enanthate hence stopping deca a few weeks before Enanthate


 Sorry to hijack your thread... but what's the app you use for tracking training? I saw it somewhere and can't recall where!! LOL


----------



## superdrol

arbffgadm100 said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread... but what's the app you use for tracking training? I saw it somewhere and can't recall where!! LOL


 Strong


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

TUDCA questions that I have searched for and can't see an answer to in this thread:

I am planning to run winny (and possibly var too) at 50mg day (each), *for 12 weeks*. Presently I am in week 2 of winny only (on top of test/tren/mast at 150/225/225).

1. Is 250mg/day enough?

2. If no to 1, what would be best?

3. If no to 1, would it be best to split it out (for example 250/250 AM/PM)?

4. If yes to 1, would it be best to take it at the same time as the orals i.e., both in the AM, or doesn't it matter? (Presently I take my orals AM and my TUDCA along with other vets etc in the evening with a meal.)

5. Do I need to take it with food, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks!


----------



## arbffgadm100

superdrol said:


> Strong


 Legend, thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> That's what I figured contrary to popular opinion. Another question I had was, can I store bacteriostatic water at room temp after piercing the top? Or does it need to be kept in the fridge. I also read mixed answers on this. The reason why I ask is, I was at the doctor's office the other day and saw a giant jug of it sitting around on a table. It was 2/3 full so it was definitely being used.
> 
> Thanks. This thread really should be stickied. Just reading through past pages and there is a wealth of information in here.


 Not at all, bacwater can be kept at room temp indefinitely.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> TUDCA questions that I have searched for and can't see an answer to in this thread:
> 
> I am planning to run winny (and possibly var too) at 50mg day (each), *for 12 weeks*. Presently I am in week 2 of winny only (on top of test/tren/mast at 150/225/225).
> 
> 1. Is 250mg/day enough?
> 
> 2. If no to 1, what would be best?
> 
> 3. If no to 1, would it be best to split it out (for example 250/250 AM/PM)?
> 
> 4. If yes to 1, would it be best to take it at the same time as the orals i.e., both in the AM, or doesn't it matter? (Presently I take my orals AM and my TUDCA along with other vets etc in the evening with a meal.)
> 
> 5. Do I need to take it with food, or doesn't it matter?
> 
> Thanks!


 250 mg of what?

You can take TUDCA and orals any time of the day. With or without food. Anecdotally, i feel they are more effective on an empty stomach (oral aas)


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg of what?
> 
> You can take TUDCA and orals any time of the day. With or without food. Anecdotally, i feel they are more effective on an empty stomach (oral aas)


 Sorry if it wasn't clear...

I was trying to explain that I am using 50mg of winny a day and will probably add 50mg var on top of that, f*or a total oral dose of 100mg/day, for 12 straight weeks.*

That being the case:

1. is 250mg of TUDCA enough per day for 12 straight weeks to support my liver? (Or is it actually harmful to use it that long)?

2. If not, what is the best dose?

And the other questions you already answered - many thanks.

I appreciate your time in replying... thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Sorry if it wasn't clear...
> 
> I was trying to explain that I am using 50mg of winny a day and will probably add 50mg var on top of that, f*or a total oral dose of 100mg/day, for 12 straight weeks.*
> 
> That being the case:
> 
> 1. is 250mg of TUDCA enough per day for 12 straight weeks to support my liver? (Or is it actually harmful to use it that long)?
> 
> 2. If not, what is the best dose?
> 
> And the other questions you already answered - many thanks.
> 
> I appreciate your time in replying... thanks again.


 250 mg tudca is fine. People talking about how it doesn't work, or is worse for you, etc don't understand how it actually works. It's a bile salt which helps maintain healthy bile flow in the liver.Oral AAS cause a condition called "cholestasis" which means the bile stops flowing properly and toxins build up and damage the liver. TUDCA prevents this from happening, thereby reducing/preventing liver damage from AAS.

UDCA/TUDCA was originally harvested in ancient china from bear liver. This is why it's also called Ursodiol. "Ursa" is the scientific name for bear. It's latin. UDCA is used to dissolve gallstones in modern medicine. The "T" in TUDCA is a taurine molecule added to UDCA to enhance bioavailability.


----------



## swole troll

What's the connection between tren and hypoglycemia?

Any time I forget to eat for 3-4 Hrs on tren I start to become hypo

Never get this cruising or on any other aas

It's all the classic hypo symptoms (cold sweats, brain fog, shaking) exactly the same as if I balls up on insulin


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg tudca is fine. People talking about how it doesn't work, or is worse for you, etc don't understand how it actually works. It's a bile salt which helps maintain healthy bile flow in the liver.Oral AAS cause a condition called "cholestasis" which means the bile stops flowing properly and toxins build up and damage the liver. TUDCA prevents this from happening, thereby reducing/preventing liver damage from AAS.
> 
> UDCA/TUDCA was originally harvested in ancient china from bear liver. This is why it's also called Ursodiol. "Ursa" is the scientific name for bear. It's latin. UDCA is used to dissolve gallstones in modern medicine. The "T" in TUDCA is a taurine molecule added to UDCA to enhance bioavailability.


 @ElChapo can you please expand on this?

does TUDCA increase the amount of bile created ? or does it improve bile flow to the liver in another way?

I am wondering if some one was particularity sensitive, if 8 weeks of TUDCA at 250mg daily, (taken with Stanozolol at 50mg daily) could increase bile production enough to irritate the pancreas ?


----------



## S123

You mention staying between 10-15% for optimal results, could you post a picture of what you think is 10% bf and 15%?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg tudca is fine. People talking about how it doesn't work, or is worse for you, etc don't understand how it actually works. It's a bile salt which helps maintain healthy bile flow in the liver.Oral AAS cause a condition called "cholestasis" which means the bile stops flowing properly and toxins build up and damage the liver. TUDCA prevents this from happening, thereby reducing/preventing liver damage from AAS.
> 
> UDCA/TUDCA was originally harvested in ancient china from bear liver. This is why it's also called Ursodiol. "Ursa" is the scientific name for bear. It's latin. UDCA is used to dissolve gallstones in modern medicine. The "T" in TUDCA is a taurine molecule added to UDCA to enhance bioavailability.


 Awesome thanks


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> @ElChapo can you please expand on this?
> 
> does TUDCA increase the amount of bile created ? or does it improve bile flow to the liver in another way?
> 
> I am wondering if some one was particularity sensitive, if 8 weeks of TUDCA at 250mg daily, (taken with Stanozolol at 50mg daily) could increase bile production enough to irritate the pancreas ?


 No, it works by modifying the composition of the bile, making it less susceptible to cholestasis.


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> No, it works by modifying the composition of the bile, making it less susceptible to cholestasis.


 Thank you Sir


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> You mention staying between 10-15% for optimal results, could you post a picture of what you think is 10% bf and 15%?


 Use google.

Most images are pretty accurate.

15% there should be some muscle definition and very light ab definition, like a 4 pack.

10% abs are visible without flexing.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo Doing 8 weeks on injectable superdrol/TTM before a holiday which i will want to cruise on test e for, TTM has 50mg test phenylpropionate per mg will be doing 1mg eod. what's the best protocol to swap esters without having low T for a week while they switch or stacking them too high that i need to add an ai?


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo Doing 8 weeks on injectable superdrol/TTM before a holiday which i will want to cruise on test e for, TTM has 50mg test phenylpropionate per mg will be doing 1mg eod. what's the best protocol to swap esters without having low T for a week while they switch or stacking them too high that i need to add an ai?


 Just run switch right over to your enanthate when your done. You should zero issues.


----------



## TinTin10

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Just sayings thanks for running these threads, I read back through them multiple times and the amount of information/explanation in here is mind-blowing. Kudos.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

im one of those people who use nolva in offseason .... and AI pre comp

its always worked for me so ive stuck with it

just wondering if theres any merit to taking say 0.5 or 1 mg adex one day a week ,, to kill off free estro ?

my train of thought is , nolva is blocking at receptors, preventing gyno etc... but theres still estro floating around not attached...does this mean the estro floating around can cause sides such as fatigue or tiredness ? it seams every now and again i have to take a bit of adex to counter fatigue or tiredness... i have no exact schedule, just seams to be once every 1 or 2 weeks ill do this... i feel im pretty in tune with my body and this does help so was wondering if my theory is correct??


----------



## MrBishi

What's your opinion on giving blood whilst taking AAS?

I've read, taking HIV etc out of the equation, that an AAS/HRT users blood is actually better, due having a high red blood cell count etc. What about Tren, Deca etc?

Do the hormones even remain active due to half life etc?


----------



## Jordan08

Can cow milk consumption can lead to E2 spikes in men?


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

Bit of a strange question but here goes.

My lipid panel on Testosterone only is usually very good (1.5 hdl and, 2 LDL).

Since the start of the year I used anavar on a cut for 4 weeks till end of Jan and since around then on 800mg per week Primo and 400mg test E.

My cholesterol when tested while taking anavar and a few weeks after was not great - as expected.

However since then using only low dose of test e and primo my cholesterol is much the same as 2 weeks after using anavar (0.8 Hdl and 2.9 LDL). My lipids are always excellent on test only but my understanding is that Primo is kind on lipids just like test e if not better?

I am going to go down to cruse dose of test e only now and get rid of the Primo and retest in a few weeks.

So the question... Can using steroids which adversely affect the lipid panel cause permanent damage to prevent the lipids to recover back to baseline?

My feeling is that if no preveous issue was present with high cholesterol (diabetes, obisety etc) was present and all things are the same then there should be no reason as to why cholesterol should bounce back as it was befor?

Interested to hear your thoughts.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> im one of those people who use nolva in offseason .... and AI pre comp
> 
> its always worked for me so ive stuck with it
> 
> just wondering if theres any merit to taking say 0.5 or 1 mg adex one day a week ,, to kill off free estro ?
> 
> my train of thought is , nolva is blocking at receptors, preventing gyno etc... but theres still estro floating around not attached...does this mean the estro floating around can cause sides such as fatigue or tiredness ? it seams every now and again i have to take a bit of adex to counter fatigue or tiredness... i have no exact schedule, just seams to be once every 1 or 2 weeks ill do this... i feel im pretty in tune with my body and this does help so was wondering if my theory is correct??


 The question is too broad, how much testosterone would you be taking? and there's no blood work to see if E2 is high or not.

It's much healthier to run AI and not SERM. SERMs are not safe for long term use due to toxic effects on the brain and eyes (nolva/clomid), it is much healthier to just block the conversion with an AI as the AI has no side effects other than causing low E2 if you over dose. Nolva is toxic to brain cells, it can cause brain fog, fatigue and depression.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Can cow milk consumption can lead to E2 spikes in men?


 No, they have studies showing an extremely negligible effect in people consuming dairy.

Dairy can increase IGF levels in the body, this is something a bodybuilder would want.

When Arnold said "Milk is for babies" i am 100% sure he was trolling like he always does to throw off this competition.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> What's your opinion on giving blood whilst taking AAS?
> 
> I've read, taking HIV etc out of the equation, that an AAS/HRT users blood is actually better, due having a high red blood cell count etc. What about Tren, Deca etc?
> 
> Do the hormones even remain active due to half life etc?


 No, the hormones won't have an effect. There isn't enough blood given for this to happen.

The blood won't be any better, your RBC won't come into effect as it should still be in normal range, many centers will deny people with high RBC.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Bit of a strange question but here goes.
> 
> My lipid panel on Testosterone only is usually very good (1.5 hdl and, 2 LDL).
> 
> Since the start of the year I used anavar on a cut for 4 weeks till end of Jan and since around then on 800mg per week Primo and 400mg test E.
> 
> My cholesterol when tested while taking anavar and a few weeks after was not great - as expected.
> 
> However since then using only low dose of test e and primo my cholesterol is much the same as 2 weeks after using anavar (0.8 Hdl and 2.9 LDL). My lipids are always excellent on test only but my understanding is that Primo is kind on lipids just like test e if not better?
> 
> I am going to go down to cruse dose of test e only now and get rid of the Primo and retest in a few weeks.
> 
> So the question... Can using steroids which adversely affect the lipid panel cause permanent damage to prevent the lipids to recover back to baseline?
> 
> My feeling is that if no preveous issue was present with high cholesterol (diabetes, obisety etc) was present and all things are the same then there should be no reason as to why cholesterol should bounce back as it was befor?
> 
> Interested to hear your thoughts.


 No, lipids will return to normal within 4-6 weeks for most people. There will never be a permanent effect. It's most likely the primobolan.

Your cholesterol will bounce back to normal once you drop it. Give it 4-6 weeks.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> No, lipids will return to normal within 4-6 weeks for most people. There will never be a permanent effect. It's most likely the primobolan.
> 
> Your cholesterol will bounce back to normal once you drop it. Give it 4-6 weeks.


 Thanks will do. Juat read the steroids.com profile on Primo and it states that Primo is harsher on the lipids than T and deca? See quote below:

The side effects of Primobolan can include cholesterol issues, especially HDL cholesterol suppression or reduction. It can also include increases in LDL cholesterol. Primo's affect on cholesterol will be stronger than testosterone. It will also be stronger than the Nandrolone and Trenbolone hormone. However, it should be much less than most oral steroids

Thought Primo was meant to be an all round "safe" compound? In comparison to 19 nors?

Not sure if you have experience with Primo but what you make of this?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks will do. Juat read the steroids.com profile on Primo and it states that Primo is harsher on the lipids than T and deca? See quote below:
> 
> The side effects of Primobolan can include cholesterol issues, especially HDL cholesterol suppression or reduction. It can also include increases in LDL cholesterol. Primo's affect on cholesterol will be stronger than testosterone. It will also be stronger than the Nandrolone and Trenbolone hormone. However, it should be much less than most oral steroids
> 
> Thought Primo was meant to be an all round "safe" compound? In comparison to 19 nors?
> 
> Not sure if you have experience with Primo but what you make of this?


 It's just the nature of androgens. Too much androgenic stimuli disrupts the homeostasis in blood lipids.

Once you go past HRT levels, you start to see even test lowering HDL.

You have to remember that test+primo is going to have an additive androgenic effect. Even at lower doses.

If you were running primo solo it might be a different story.You also never know if the primo is 100% if it's UGL, it can be cut with test or be something else.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> If you were running primo solo it might be a different story.You also never know if the primo is 100% if it's UGL, it can be cut with test or be something else.


 Primo is Pharmacom (not that means much).

However my E2 is on the low side despite me using the same amount of Aromasin that i usually would on a high test dose (so i need to cut back on this). Prolactin is very low normal and testosterone is around 100nmol/l which is around right for what i am taking per week at present.

i am confident its not test, deca or tren as with test E2 will be high, and deca and tren will be elevated prolactin (from previous experience with bloods while using). Im not bloating and BP is normal ~120/70.

That said there is always a chance it could be cut with something and there is no real easy way of knowing... is there any ways to determine by bloods that it could be cut with mast?


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> The question is too broad, how much testosterone would you be taking? and there's no blood work to see if E2 is high or not.
> 
> It's much healthier to run AI and not SERM. SERMs are not safe for long term use due to toxic effects on the brain and eyes (nolva/clomid), it is much healthier to just block the conversion with an AI as the AI has no side effects other than causing low E2 if you over dose. Nolva is toxic to brain cells, it can cause brain fog, fatigue and depression.


 running 600-750 test e per week.... estro stays around the same level 130 pmol/l (range <150) ,, sometimes goes down randomly .. what im more so wondering is,, im just blocking estro, im not actually killing it... does this mean my body will have lots of 'free' estro floating around? and if so does this matter? will it give other sides? e.g lethargy, tiredness or anything like that.... or is nolva preventing it to be bound to anything ?

ive tried AIs in past but to me it was more like a rollercoaster and chasing the 'sweet spot' ... whereas on nolva i feel great and stable all week ,,, every couple weeks i may pop .5 adex because of my theory but i have no idea if this is doing anything at all?

to be fair ive never tried aromasin , i will give that a go this upcoming pre comp.. and decide whther to keep it in after


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Primo is Pharmacom (not that means much).
> 
> However my E2 is on the low side despite me using the same amount of Aromasin that i usually would on a high test dose (so i need to cut back on this). Prolactin is very low normal and testosterone is around 100nmol/l which is around right for what i am taking per week at present.
> 
> i am confident its not test, deca or tren as with test E2 will be high, and deca and tren will be elevated prolactin (from previous experience with bloods while using). Im not bloating and BP is normal ~120/70.
> 
> That said there is always a chance it could be cut with something and there is no real easy way of knowing... is there any ways to determine by bloods that it could be cut with mast?


 100 nmol/L total testosterone is enough to decrease HDL. Low E2 can also decrease HDL.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> running 600-750 test e per week.... estro stays around the same level 130 pmol/l (range <150) ,, sometimes goes down randomly .. what im more so wondering is,, im just blocking estro, im not actually killing it... does this mean my body will have lots of 'free' estro floating around? and if so does this matter? will it give other sides? e.g lethargy, tiredness or anything like that.... or is nolva preventing it to be bound to anything ?
> 
> ive tried AIs in past but to me it was more like a rollercoaster and chasing the 'sweet spot' ... whereas on nolva i feel great and stable all week ,,, every couple weeks i may pop .5 adex because of my theory but i have no idea if this is doing anything at all?
> 
> to be fair ive never tried aromasin , i will give that a go this upcoming pre comp.. and decide whther to keep it in after


 No, i wouldn't run nolvadex long-term. Why do you need nolvadex if your E2 is in range?

I wouldn't worry about "free" estrogen, remember, nolvadex can actually behave like an estrogen as well as block it. It does both things, this is why they are called SERM.

Nolvadex is not safe to run long-term, once you figure out your ideal AI dose you will be fine. If you're estradiol is 130 pmol/L , you don't even need AI.


----------



## iambazza

@ElChapo Hi mate,

What are the best ways to control anxiety without drugs?

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

iambazza said:


> @ElChapo Hi mate,
> 
> What are the best ways to control anxiety without drugs?
> 
> Thanks!


 High intensity exercise, especially martial arts like muay thai and brazilian jiujitsu. The acute stress of exercise desensitizes your body to stress and anxiety hormones like cortisol and adrenaline.

Also make sure to supplement magnesium, vitamin D, zinc and that your testosterone and thyroid hormones are within normal levels. Avoid soy products.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> High intensity exercise, especially martial arts like muay thai and brazilian jiujitsu. The acute stress of exercise desensitizes your body to stress and anxiety hormones like cortisol and adrenaline.
> 
> Also make sure to supplement magnesium, vitamin D, zinc and that your testosterone and thyroid hormones are within normal levels. Avoid soy products.


 BJJ cures all.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> BJJ cures all.


 It's a sport that forces you to stay calm and think under pressure and stress, many times while being crushed or pressured by an aggressive opponent and it's one hell of a workout.


----------



## vaDImadi

What is your opinion on HGH and are there any generics you recommend ?


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

I've read several studies linking egg consumption with causing and progressing prostate cancer due to the choline that's in them. I eat 5 - 10 whole eggs daily should I be concerned


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> It's a sport that forces you to stay calm and think under pressure and stress, many times while being crushed or pressured by an aggressive opponent and it's one hell of a workout.


 De acuerdo, hombre. Yo lucho mucho.


----------



## 7captain7

@ElChapo , what is your opinion on the frequency of injecting Sustanon 250? If someone is on 1 gram of Sustanon per week, will injecting 500mg twice a week be alright? Main goal is Muscle Gain/Bulking

Thank you


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> 100 nmol/L total testosterone is enough to decrease HDL. Low E2 can also decrease HDL.


 Thanks bud!

Now you have mentioned it, I think for some months now my e2 has been on the low side! I understand low E2 for prolonged periods of time can lower bone density.

Can you advise when E2 is restored to healthy baseline ranges that bone density will rise back to baseline again or is it once reduced it will slowly rise/possibly never achieve baseline again?

And if so, typically how many weeks/months/years will it take to start to rise. I don't really want to pay for a dexa scan as yet!

Appreciate its another stupid question, however having kept low e2 for some time I do wonder whether I have lowered the density of my bones and I'm too young to be breaking/fracturing bones lol!

I'm going to reduce my ai and get my E2 in the 110 to 130pmol range and maintain this for ever more...

Had a few issues with very minor gyno before and went overboard on the aromasin I fear!


----------



## arbffgadm100

vaDImadi said:


> What is your opinion on HGH and are there any generics you recommend ?


 Keen on the answers to this too.

@ElChapo - what would you say are the principal functions of HGH, if more than one, in what order?

And, would you recommend year-round use, or just when cutting/bulking/maintaining?

Finally, what would you recommend as the minimum effective dose (cutting/bulking/maintaining) for a person that is not FREAK mass big, lol?

Many thanks in advance.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Ohhhh, and, are there any specific AAS that compliment HGH better than others (for e.g. cutting/bulking), etc?

Thank you !!!!


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've read several studies linking egg consumption with causing and progressing prostate cancer due to the choline that's in them. I eat 5 - 10 whole eggs daily should I be concerned


 I wouldn't worry about it, choline is an important micronutrient and basically a vitamin. The association between egg consumption and prostate cancer is weak, i would only even give it though one was already diagnosed with the cancer in the first place as there's a weak link with recurrence but even then it's not something to bother with.

Smoking and obesity have a much much stronger association with prostate cancer and most obese smokers do not have prostate cancer.

I myself consume 6-14 eggs daily on average, it is a staple of my daily diet.


----------



## ElChapo

vaDImadi said:


> What is your opinion on HGH and are there any generics you recommend ?


 HGH is great for older individuals, bodybuilders who want freak mass, and athletes who need enhanced recovery and performance.

As for generics, i would go with a reputable source and get labwork at least on the first batch you order from them. No brand in particular as brand can be fake easily (grey top/black top/etc) the source is more important than the brand.

Obviously if you can get pharma grade and afford it, always go with that.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo appreciate the sharing of your knowledge to the forum, have learnt a lot.
> 
> When using Tren, I get uncomfortably warm, sweaty and anxious when in public. Do you think a low dose of beta blocker (propranolol) daily throughout the cycle would help these symptoms? If so, what dosage? Also would the use of T3 alongside the Tren cause even higher core temperature/sweating?


 I would always recommend avoiding extra drugs if you can. If the anxiety is so severe, i would consider another AAS. Propranolol will only help alleviate the anxiety.

Dose would be 20-40 mg x 2 daily.

Do you incorporate any cardio? This can help alleviate anxiety.

Yes, T3+tren can cause high core temperature/sweating and T3 use can also exacerbate anxiety. T3 actually makes your body more sensitive to andrenergic stimuli, the opposite effect of propranolol which blocks adrenergic receptors.


----------



## ElChapo

7captain7 said:


> @ElChapo , what is your opinion on the frequency of injecting Sustanon 250? If someone is on 1 gram of Sustanon per week, will injecting 500mg twice a week be alright? Main goal is Muscle Gain/Bulking
> 
> Thank you


 Yeah, the shortest ester being prop, x 2 weekly will have levels stable enough at that frequency.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks bud!
> 
> Now you have mentioned it, I think for some months now my e2 has been on the low side! I understand low E2 for prolonged periods of time can lower bone density.
> 
> Can you advise when E2 is restored to healthy baseline ranges that bone density will rise back to baseline again or is it once reduced it will slowly rise/possibly never achieve baseline again?
> 
> And if so, typically how many weeks/months/years will it take to start to rise. I don't really want to pay for a dexa scan as yet!
> 
> Appreciate its another stupid question, however having kept low e2 for some time I do wonder whether I have lowered the density of my bones and I'm too young to be breaking/fracturing bones lol!
> 
> I'm going to reduce my ai and get my E2 in the 110 to 130pmol range and maintain this for ever more...
> 
> Had a few issues with very minor gyno before and went overboard on the aromasin I fear!


 Changes in bone density can take as long as 6 months to a year. This is one of the slower changes induced by steroid hormones. As you know, changes to libido and body composition can be seen in as little as 3-12 weeks.

130 pmol is completely fine. Do not worry about E2 levels until you are over 150 pmol/L AND symptomatic.

Gyno can be reversed with ralox or nolvadex so no need to panic. If you get a flare up, add a tiny bit of AI and run a SERM for 3-4 weeks and it should go away permanently.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Keen on the answers to this too.
> 
> @ElChapo - what would you say are the principal functions of HGH, if more than one, in what order?
> 
> And, would you recommend year-round use, or just when cutting/bulking/maintaining?
> 
> Finally, what would you recommend as the minimum effective dose (cutting/bulking/maintaining) for a person that is not FREAK mass big, lol?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


 Goals with GH would be,

1. Preventing decrease in GH with aging for cosmetic and health purposes 2. Enhanced recovery from training/faster gains in performance 3. achieving freak mass with addition of insulin.

Generally, people are looking for one of the three things above^

How you run GH is going to come down to what your goals are. For 1# you would run year round. If you can afford it, year round is recommended for #2/3 as well, however, if money is an issue, you can run it around training cycles and bulk/cuts.

3-4 IU is more than enough for all purpose recovery/performance/body composition/anti-aging & health.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Ohhhh, and, are there any specific AAS that compliment HGH better than others (for e.g. cutting/bulking), etc?
> 
> Thank you !!!!


 Trenbolone seems to have some effect on IGF-1 receptors in muscle cells, so it seems to synergize especially well with growth hormone. This is based on cow studies though, so take with a grain of salt.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Changes in bone density can take as long as 6 months to a year. This is one of the slower changes induced by steroid hormones. As you know, changes to libido and body composition can be seen in as little as 3-12 weeks.
> 
> 130 pmol is completely fine. Do not worry about E2 levels until you are over 150 pmol/L AND symptomatic.
> 
> Gyno can be reversed with ralox or nolvadex so no need to panic. If you get a flare up, add a tiny bit of AI and run a SERM for 3-4 weeks and it should go away permanently.


 Thanks bud,

Can you juat advise if any decrease in bone density will restore to normal once normal E2 levels are reached? In other words is it possible to reverse bone density which could have occurred (if any) due to prolonged e2 suppression due to ai once the use of aromasin has been ceased?

Yes mate I have rolaxefine to hand and will do as you suggest without hammering aromasin also like before!


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Goals with GH would be,
> 
> 1. Preventing decrease in GH with aging for cosmetic and health purposes 2. Enhanced recovery from training/faster gains in performance 3. achieving freak mass with addition of insulin.
> 
> Generally, people are looking for one of the three things above^
> 
> How you run GH is going to come down to what your goals are. For 1# you would run year round. If you can afford it, year round is recommended for #2/3 as well, however, if money is an issue, you can run it around training cycles and bulk/cuts.
> 
> 3-4 IU is more than enough for all purpose recovery/performance/body composition/anti-aging & health.


 Awesome. Thabks


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Thanks for the response, yes cardio done regularly when cutting however slack sometimes when bulking. Will begin weekly cardio from now on after hearing this. I'll try the Tren at a lower dose and leave any of the fat burners out as I assume they all have this similar effect.
> 
> Edit - also, is there anything that can be done to reduce core temp/sweating whilst on Tren?


 Correct, stimulants and T3 will exacerbate anxiety via the adrenergic system. Cardio makes your body better able to handle stress and anxiety by desensitizing your receptors to cortisol and adrenaline.

Keeping your cardio during a bulk will enhance intraset recovery and allows your body to handle a lot more volume per workout. Low intensity is best, even 20 minutes is enough.

Sweating and heat is part of running trenbolone, this is why caution is always given to those who run it. It's the steroid with the biggest list of side effects, no question. Some guys say to limit carbs to avoid heat/sweat, however, carbs are the best building block for muscle after protein. I wouldnt do this, you just gotta deal with it. Drop the T3 if you are running it though. Increase body heat is the number one side effect of T3.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks bud,
> 
> Can you juat advise if any decrease in bone density will restore to normal once normal E2 levels are reached? In other words is it possible to reverse bone density which could have occurred (if any) due to prolonged e2 suppression due to ai once the use of aromasin has been ceased?
> 
> Yes mate I have rolaxefine to hand and will do as you suggest without hammering aromasin also like before!


 You will be fine, lifting weights and cardio all increase bone density and prevent it from decreasing. It would take many years of very low E2 to cause any real issues. You are fine. Androgens have a positive effect on bone density as well, you werent just nuking your E2 with no androgen.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

any merit to using yohimbine during lean bulk ? not so much concerned about the fat loss but the other great benefits  will it prevent weight gain ? or should it be saved for diet? i have a huge paranoia about getting fat during any bulk


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> any merit to using yohimbine during lean bulk ? not so much concerned about the fat loss but the other great benefits  will it prevent weight gain ? or should it be saved for diet? i have a huge paranoia about getting fat during any bulk


 It's a hell of a pre-workout, but in terms of preventing weight gain, just keep your caloric surplus low-moderate and don't bulk over 15%. Gaining a little fat is part of the process. Never go above 250-500 calorie surplus per day or bulk over 15% body fat if you want to stay lean year round.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> You will be fine, lifting weights and cardio all increase bone density and prevent it from decreasing. It would take many years of very low E2 to cause any real issues. You are fine. Androgens have a positive effect on bone density as well, you werent just nuking your E2 with no androgen.


 Thanks mate, live and learn i guess - my joints are def more "dry" but hope to have them restored in a few weeks given the fact i am monitoring my e2 and will get it back to good levels imminently.

 going back to the subject of Cholesterol - when using AAS which have negative impact on lipids, do blood readings after X amount of weeks on X dose per day eventually "stabilise"?

for* example* - lets say one runs TREN @ 400mg per week for 10 weeks and checks their lipids at this point without a doubt they are likely to be trashed. now lets say this individual continued to run another 10 weeks of TREN at the same 400mg per week dose and after this time (now 20 weeks on) checked their lipid panel.

would the lipids be around the same as the 10 week mark (+/- 10%) or would it be very likely that HDL will be much lower and LDL much higher?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks mate, live and learn i guess - my joints are def more "dry" but hope to have them restored in a few weeks given the fact i am monitoring my e2 and will get it back to good levels imminently.
> 
> going back to the subject of Cholesterol - when using AAS which have negative impact on lipids, do blood readings after X amount of weeks on X dose per day eventually "stabilise"?
> 
> for* example* - lets say one runs TREN @ 400mg per week for 10 weeks and checks their lipids at this point without a doubt they are likely to be trashed. now lets say this individual continued to run another 10 weeks of TREN at the same 400mg per week dose and after this time (now 20 weeks on) checked their lipid panel.
> 
> would the lipids be around the same as the 10 week mark (+/- 10%) or would it be very likely that HDL will be much lower and LDL much higher?


 They would stabilized after 4-6 weeks.

Tren will trash lipids as quick as after 1-2 injections. Mine was nuked after two 50 mg injections by 60%.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> They would stabilized after 4-6 weeks.
> 
> Tren will trash lipids as quick as after 1-2 injections. Mine was nuked after two 50 mg injections by 60%.


 How bad is having a poor lipid profile? Do you feel like crap, or have other negative sides or would it only be bloods that show its negative effects? Running test tren mast for the next six weeks having been on for four then cruising for ten weeks but will cruise longer if its required. Cheers.


----------



## Mág

hello everyone I am looking for any info for my PCT.

been on for +- 2.5 year and wanted to come off, been on 200 mg tst /weekly for 3 months now I am on trt dose 150+-mg/ weekly.

I am using hcg 500/week from today and been wondering if the pct will do a comeback to a normal fsh lh tst level for me.

But i dont want to be usin clomid or is it a must?

So the options I am looking at are triptorelin or HMG, this is when I come here and beg you for your advice/experiences with triptorelin/hmg based PCTs with a little of exemestane and tamox(nolva)

If you got any info, please I would be happy if u write it down. Thank you and have a nice day !


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> How bad is having a poor lipid profile? Do you feel like crap, or have other negative sides or would it only be bloods that show its negative effects? Running test tren mast for the next six weeks having been on for four then cruising for ten weeks but will cruise longer if its required. Cheers.


 Bad lipids will have zero effect on how you feel. The consequences of bad lipids are increased risk of cardiovascular disease like atherosclerosis, heart attack and stroke.

You won't ever "feel" bad lipid profile. The negative consequences are invisible to the naked eye.


----------



## stewedw

I've been reading about gh and have a couple of questions.

1) 4iu per day or 8iu m/w/f? (Read a study showing in just six weeks lean tissues growth of 3kg was achieved and 1.5% fat loss. No steroids taken with this study but nailed diet on trained athletes was noted.

2) goo starting dose and protocol for mass? And one for fatloss?

3) dose gh protocol differ for men and women.

4) is gh worth it without using slin and if using with skin is better then what's a good "relatively safe" protocol for gh +Slinfold kean growth when using sat test and tren.

Cheers.


----------



## Avgs

What kind of cycles would professional boxers be running? What would you recommend for someone who's been boxing for a year?


----------



## Tricky

Avgs said:


> What kind of cycles would professional boxers be running? What would you recommend for someone who's been boxing for a year?


 Surely that depends on if your going to be tested for aas or not?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I see many people refer to Trenbolone and Methyl-Trienolone as the same compound. I think people get confused thinking it's an oral version of Trenbolone which I believe it is not. Does Methyl-Trienolone possess sides as potently as Trenbolone? Specifically, the excess sweating and increase in core temperature? Lastly, do you think it's results compare to Trenbolone or is it not up to that level? Thanks a lot.


----------



## superdrol

swole troll said:


> What's the connection between tren and hypoglycemia?
> 
> Any time I forget to eat for 3-4 Hrs on tren I start to become hypo
> 
> Never get this cruising or on any other aas
> 
> It's all the classic hypo symptoms (cold sweats, brain fog, shaking) exactly the same as if I balls up on insulin


 I get it also, think I've had it before on 600mg test, but it was my first cycle and I blamed 50mg t3 years ago, but just done tren and had it loads, just had to get some food down me or a glass of Pepsi got rid, thinking about it I did get it a few times on deca last run, but nowhere near 3 times a week on tren!


----------



## swole troll

superdrol said:


> I get it also, think I've had it before on 600mg test, but it was my first cycle and I blamed 50mg t3 years ago, but just done tren and had it loads, just had to get some food down me or a glass of Pepsi got rid, thinking about it I did get it a few times on deca last run, but nowhere near 3 times a week on tren!


 I only get it on tren

its on par with a very mild slin hypo at times

like if your post slin shake doesnt contain enough simple carbs

nasty

i use to absolutely love tren but despite having ran it countless times this most recent blast as really highlighted alot of the bullshit that comes with it

mad night sweats, nightmares, bleak outlook on life, hypos, s**t digestion, 0 appetite

i think its a much better cutter, recomper and very lean bulker than it is an all out masser

nandrolone blows it out the park in that regard 
the most meat i ever put on was a combo of test, deca, dbol, gh and insulin


----------



## stewedw

swole troll said:


> I only get it on tren
> 
> its on par with a very mild slin hypo at times
> 
> like if your post slin shake doesnt contain enough simple carbs
> 
> nasty
> 
> i use to absolutely love tren but despite having ran it countless times this most recent blast as really highlighted alot of the bullshit that comes with it
> 
> mad night sweats, nightmares, bleak outlook on life, hypos, s**t digestion, 0 appetite
> 
> i think its a much better cutter, recomper and very lean bulker than it is an all out masser
> 
> nandrolone blows it out the park in that regard
> the most meat i ever put on was a combo of test, deca, dbol, gh and insulin


 Three weeks into a seven week cut and I agreed wholeheartedly what you've just said about tren. The lack of appetite is fine on a cut and the recomp effects are nothing short of terrifying for me, I favour low carbs for cuts and wake up thinking someone has swapped my body over night. The scale doesn't drop massively but cutting from 99 to 92kg makes me look insane. Just added winny for rhe last four weeks before hols too.

Defo will be on the npp or deca train wen I get back as I've been awake for whay seems like four days now, dreams are insane. Stuck in cycles like a puzzle and exhausted as a result. Haven't wanted to kill anyone this rime round mind you lol


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo hi mate I wonder if you can shed any light on my problem regarding body fat and problematic areas that hold more.

I have 2 main area's that I seem to hold little pockets of fatty water even at low body fat, I just cant seem to get them completely gone.

The 2 area's are my lower pecs and just under the belly button ive ran DNP and looked amazing everywhere but these 2 area's even a serious illness

I had 2 year ago when I could not eat or drink for 4 days then only sips of water and bread for a further 12 days resulting in a lot of weight lost ( 18lb )

I still had these area's looking soft and no clean edge under my pecs.

Is there any reason why these don't seem to go even at around 10% its there.

I have cuts and separation in my quads arms shoulders upper chest and some abs yet its still visible.

Im also quite vascular atm currently on 300mg test e 375mg tren ace 50mg winny and hardening up nicely but still these area's show.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I see many people refer to Trenbolone and Methyl-Trienolone as the same compound. I think people get confused thinking it's an oral version of Trenbolone which I believe it is not. Does Methyl-Trienolone possess sides as potently as Trenbolone? Specifically, the excess sweating and increase in core temperature? Lastly, do you think it's results compare to Trenbolone or is it not up to that level? Thanks a lot.


 I've noticed similar sides in the agitation department from personal use. I never used it by itself but it appears to have a potent drying and CNS stimulating effect.

It's a nice bonus compound to throw jn fot things like powerlifting or maintaining strength on a sharp deficit.

I doubt it could replace trenbolone interchangibly though.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I've been reading about gh and have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1) 4iu per day or 8iu m/w/f? (Read a study showing in just six weeks lean tissues growth of 3kg was achieved and 1.5% fat loss. No steroids taken with this study but nailed diet on trained athletes was noted.
> 
> 2) goo starting dose and protocol for mass? And one for fatloss?
> 
> 3) dose gh protocol differ for men and women.
> 
> 4) is gh worth it without using slin and if using with skin is better then what's a good "relatively safe" protocol for gh +Slinfold kean growth when using sat test and tren.
> 
> Cheers.


 1- It would still work, but daily is better and mimicks the natural pattern better. Some people skip weekends with good results.

2- Fat loss recomp : 3-4 IU

Lean Mass: 8 IU is a good starting dose+insulin protocol.

3- Women don't need nearly as much, 2 IU for body composition improvement, recovery, etc. Unless she's competing in the bodybuilding category, then she will be running male doses of AAS and GH.

4- Without insulin, i would stick to the 3-4 IU dose, anything higher and its worth throwing in insulin. The synergy is great as they cover each others weaknesses and side effects. (Insulin resistsance from GH, fat gain from Insulin) Most guys dont need GH to achieve their goals.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> What kind of cycles would professional boxers be running? What would you recommend for someone who's been boxing for a year?


 Test prop and winstrol is effective.

No more than 300 mg per week for test P, cardio and muscular endurance takes a big hit with higher doses of AAS due to muscle pump and increased oxygen consumption.

150-300 mg test P

optional: Winstrol 25 mg daily

AAS can be very detrimental to athletic performance when used incorrectly.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Surely that depends on if your going to be tested for aas or not?


 Test suspension and creams are very easy to hide, most guys won't be tested, especially someone boxing for only a year. GH is also not something that gets detected.

Even most pros wont be tested. Unless you're in the big leagues/ppv/higher level organization.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo hi mate I wonder if you can shed any light on my problem regarding body fat and problematic areas that hold more.
> 
> I have 2 main area's that I seem to hold little pockets of fatty water even at low body fat, I just cant seem to get them completely gone.
> 
> The 2 area's are my lower pecs and just under the belly button ive ran DNP and looked amazing everywhere but these 2 area's even a serious illness
> 
> I had 2 year ago when I could not eat or drink for 4 days then only sips of water and bread for a further 12 days resulting in a lot of weight lost ( 18lb )
> 
> I still had these area's looking soft and no clean edge under my pecs.
> 
> Is there any reason why these don't seem to go even at around 10% its there.
> 
> I have cuts and separation in my quads arms shoulders upper chest and some abs yet its still visible.
> 
> Im also quite vascular atm currently on 300mg test e 375mg tren ace 50mg winny and hardening up nicely but still these area's show.


 These areas are rich in alpha-adrenergic receptors, which makes them "stubborn fat". These receptors block the lipolytic (fat burning) effect of catecholamines (andrenaline), and these are usually the last places to get lean.

Yohimbine is the answer. Yohimbine's mechanism of action is to literally block the alpha-andrenergic receptors, unlocking the "stubborness" of this fat.

http://yohimbine.emgsites.com

I recommend you get down to about 10-12% body fat before you run it the yohimbine, and then cut down to 8% with it. You should be able to torch that last bit of the fat with it.

For the pecs, it helps to have a good amount of muscle mass to stretch out the skin in that area, and avoid decline and regular bench press if you have bottom heavy pecs, cause it can make your pecs look like droopy muscle tits.

Typically, incline bench pressing will provide a more aesthetic chest than decline/flat bench only.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> These areas are rich in alpha-adrenergic receptors, which makes them "stubborn fat". These receptors block the lipolytic (fat burning) effect of catecholamines (andrenaline), and these are usually the last places to get lean.
> 
> Yohimbine is the answer. Yohimbine's mechanism of action is to literally block the alpha-andrenergic receptors, unlocking the "stubborness" of this fat.
> 
> http://yohimbine.emgsites.com
> 
> I recommend you get down to about 10-12% body fat before you run it the yohimbine, and then cut down to 8% with it. You should be able to torch that last bit of the fat with it.
> 
> For the pecs, it helps to have a good amount of muscle mass to stretch out the skin in that area, and avoid decline and regular bench press if you have bottom heavy pecs, cause it can make your pecs look like droopy muscle tits.
> 
> Typically, incline bench pressing will provide a more aesthetic chest than decline/flat bench only.


 That's great thank you mate I will be ordering some asap.

About the pecs area I do have good development there but I do also think I am a little bottom heavy from years of flat benching.

Some useful info there mate thank you I shall incorporate incline into my chest routine more.


----------



## Redser

What's yohimbine like In terms of side effects


----------



## Whoremoan1

for future reference :

when doing a mini cut (rinse and repeat) how do you go about it coming from 3600 maintenance cals (how fast lowering cals? or drop strait down to 'x' cals) ?

how long should the mini cut be ?

and do you use clen/t3/yohimbine/eca and go all out , or just lower cals and do somewhat of a cut ?

also

saw luke sandoes cycle for the arnolds and he was on 250 EQ ew (plus other stuff)? why would aceto have him on that amount of eq though? was the under the impression 600 above to see any results ? whats the method to the madness lol ?


----------



## ghost.recon

Whoremoan1 said:


> for future reference :
> 
> when doing a mini cut (rinse and repeat) how do you go about it coming from 3600 maintenance cals (how fast lowering cals? or drop strait down to 'x' cals) ?
> 
> how long should the mini cut be ?
> 
> and do you use clen/t3/yohimbine/eca and go all out , or just lower cals and do somewhat of a cut ?
> 
> also
> 
> saw luke sandoes cycle for the arnolds and he was on 250 EQ ew (plus other stuff)? why would aceto have him on that amount of eq though? was the under the impression 600 above to see any results ? whats the method to the madness lol ?


 Don't believe everything you read.

500 calories under maintenance will work. Drop it immediately then gradual reduction there onwards

Mini cut as long as you want depending how fat you are, I assume pretty lean if its a mini cut.

Those lipolytic agents primarily work on beta adreno receptors, once you hit saturation point, more won't result in greater fat loss just greater side effects. Start at the minimum base dose and gradually increase to asses tolerability and efficacy. This is the best way to use any drug and is how drugs are studied in clinical trial phases to determine the maximum tolerated dose (MTD and dose limited toxicity (DLT)


----------



## ghost.recon

Redser said:


> What's yohimbine like In terms of side effects


 Aggression

Increased libido

Raised body temperature

Hypertension

Tachycardia

All dose dependent ofc


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> Aggression
> 
> Increased libido
> 
> Raised body temperature
> 
> Hypertension
> 
> Tachycardia
> 
> All dose dependent ofc


 Exactly this, you want dose just enough for the fat burning effect



Redser said:


> What's yohimbine like In terms of side effects


 It can be a very powerful stimulant, it will increase erection strength and libido as well.

Overdose sides will be like most stims, anxiety, high BP, palpitations, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> for future reference :
> 
> when doing a mini cut (rinse and repeat) how do you go about it coming from 3600 maintenance cals (how fast lowering cals? or drop strait down to 'x' cals) ?
> 
> how long should the mini cut be ?
> 
> and do you use clen/t3/yohimbine/eca and go all out , or just lower cals and do somewhat of a cut ?
> 
> also
> 
> saw luke sandoes cycle for the arnolds and he was on 250 EQ ew (plus other stuff)? why would aceto have him on that amount of eq though? was the under the impression 600 above to see any results ? whats the method to the madness lol ?


 You can transition directly to a deficit.

A cut can be as long as it has to be to get you to your desired level of leanness.

The longer the cut and the leaner you are, the more important carb refeeds will become to ensure optimal performance, fat loss and quality of life.

Depends, a lot of times i will cut with no stims or fat burners and just lower calories. If you want to speed it up, you can throw them in.

500 calorie or 25% deficit is what you want to be hitting. This should drop your bodyfat by roughly 1 lbs per week. Fat burners will increase the amount. especially DNP.

Yohimbine is best for stubborn fat loss and when you're already lean <13%. Good stimulant and libido enhancer/erection aid. It can give you a lot of focus like an adderall/ritalin effect. Great pre-workout that comes in handy when ending a cut.* *Must be taken fasted, period**

EC stack is great for people who have compliance issues and have cravings. It will also increase CNS output and help you push through fatigue and weakness from cutting, increasing performance.

T3 is not really that good as a standalone, but it can enhance fatloss when stacked and will help offset metabolic downregulation from extended caloric deficits. It can make you flat and temporarily decrease strength at higher doses >50 mcg.

DNP is the holy grail and the most versatile, working great at all bodyfat levels, however, many people feel very bad/almost sick with crippling lethargy and malaise. Some DNP abusers have even developed neuropathies/nerve damage.(usually reversible) This compound needs respect, period. It's the fastest way to lose fat and works great stacked with the others.

Clenbuterol is similar to EC stack, common sides are the shakes. It's been anecdotally known to help dry people out. Burns more fat than EC stack but without appetite suppression.

Dont ever believe doses given out publicly by celebrity fitness people, 90% of the time it's bullshit. Sometimes it's an ethics thing and they dont want kids jumping on 2 grams of tren because they do it too, other times they dont want people to give credit to their high doses vs the hard work they put in and genetics.


----------



## Jordan08

My mrs. has been into a 20% caloric deficit from 6 weeks and still couldnt lose even a single pound.

I ask her to get her thyroid levels check and as suspected her TSH came out to be 9 where high range given by lab was 5. Dont know how to take it forward. Should i First and check T3 and T4 levels as well.

Can it be corrected?


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> For the pecs, it helps to have a good amount of muscle mass to stretch out the skin in that area, and avoid decline and regular bench press if you have bottom heavy pecs, cause it can make your pecs look like droopy muscle tits.


 What about dips? Been focusing more on incline pressing because I used to flat bench too much. But I still like doing high rep bw exercises like dips and pull ups.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> My mrs. has been into a 20% caloric deficit from 6 weeks and still couldnt lose even a single pound.
> 
> I ask her to get her thyroid levels check and as suspected her TSH came out to be 9 where high range given by lab was 5. Dont know how to take it forward. Should i First and check T3 and T4 levels as well.
> 
> Can it be corrected?


 Yeah, get Free T4 and Free T3 blood test. You want to bring her Free T4 to the top of the range. This should resolve symptoms.

If still symptomatic and/or low Free T3 levels, add 5-10 mcg of T3.

Typical *effective* replacement dose is around 100-150 mcg.

You want Free T4 levels around 1.6-1.8 ng/dL.

If she's not losing weight, she's overestimating her TDEE. Reduce calories further by 200. If she's not doing daily cardio, she should start.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> What about dips? Been focusing more on incline pressing because I used to flat bench too much. But I still like doing high rep bw exercises like dips and pull ups.


 Don't lean in on your dips, this emphasizes the lower pecs more.

Lean back and more straight, perpindicular to the ground, this will emphasize the triceps more.

Make sure you hit more volume on the incline than the flat bench and dips and dont touch decline.

You could replace your bench with incline only as well.


----------



## Pancake'

I haven't seen any literature personally, but what do you think about MT2 causing cancer?

Thoughts on the relation of dairy to cancer? should people limit the amount they consume? Is it that serious? I tend to eat a lot of dairy personally.

The Sternum pain seems to of recovered completely, still odd pop, but I still want to perform dips, would it be safer to perform them more for triceps, rather than lean forward for chest?

How does squatting with a safety squat bar, target the quads any differently?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I haven't seen any literature personally, but what do you think about MT2 causing cancer?
> 
> Thoughts on the relation of dairy to cancer? should people limit the amount they consume? Is it that serious? I tend to eat a lot of dairy personally.
> 
> The Sternum pain seems to of recovered completely, still odd pop, but I still want to perform dips, would it be safer to perform them more for triceps, rather than lean forward for chest?
> 
> How does squatting with a safety squat bar, target the quads any differently?


 MT2 and dairy will not cause cancer. You have a higher risk of cancer from being obese and smoking. We all know a ton of fat people without cancer.

Yeah, lean back more. I havent had the pop problem in over 5 years. It just went away for me.

No significant advantage. If you want to hit the quads, front squats and leg extensions are great. Mix heavy weight and high volume into your routine.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Exactly this, you want dose just enough for the fat burning effect
> 
> It can be a very powerful stimulant, it will increase erection strength and libido as well.
> 
> Overdose sides will be like most stims, anxiety, high BP, palpitations, etc.


 Did I see you before mention that you should not take yohimbine when on amitriptyline?

Im on 25mg ed for tension headaches, which is a low dose compared to that used for depression - 100+


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Did I see you before mention that you should not take yohimbine when on amitriptyline?
> 
> Im on 25mg ed for tension headaches, which is a low dose compared to that used for depression - 100+


 Never ever combine them.

You run the risk of serotonin syndrome, both compounds affect neurotransmission in the brain.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Never ever combine them.
> 
> You run the risk of serotonin syndrome, both compounds affect neurotransmission in the brain.


 How easily is this caused?

Im sure you don't condone (I know it's stupid), but every 2-3 months I attend a rave/festival and take mdma - I understand the mechanisms of this are to release serotonin providing the euphoria and other effects

Is taking mdma whilst on amitriptyline very dangerous as well? If so, how long before would you discontinue amitriptyline? I've been running 1 year ish at 25mg a night.

And if I wanted to run yohimbine for a month, how long to discontinue again, thanks very much.


----------



## Deltz123

Devil said:


> How easily is this caused?
> 
> Im sure you don't condone (I know it's stupid), but every 2-3 months I attend a rave/festival and take mdma - I understand the mechanisms of this are to release serotonin providing the euphoria and other effects
> 
> Is taking mdma whilst on amitriptyline very dangerous as well? If so, how long before would you discontinue amitriptyline? I've been running 1 year ish at 25mg a night.
> 
> And if I wanted to run yohimbine for a month, how long to discontinue again, thanks very much.


 Mdma and amitriptyline is a bad combo for already mentioned Reasons. Although I know someone who is on a boatload of those kind of meds and does mdma frequently. Not saying it's healthy tho


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> How easily is this caused?
> 
> Im sure you don't condone (I know it's stupid), but every 2-3 months I attend a rave/festival and take mdma - I understand the mechanisms of this are to release serotonin providing the euphoria and other effects
> 
> Is taking mdma whilst on amitriptyline very dangerous as well? If so, how long before would you discontinue amitriptyline? I've been running 1 year ish at 25mg a night.
> 
> And if I wanted to run yohimbine for a month, how long to discontinue again, thanks very much.


 To put it simply, it's extremely dangerous. Google serotonin syndrome.

Your dose isnt too high and you've been lucky thus far, just becareful.

Should be out of your system in a week.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> To put it simply, it's extremely dangerous. Google serotonin syndrome.
> 
> Your dose isnt too high and you've been lucky thus far, just becareful.
> 
> Should be out of your system in a week.


 Thanks mate.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> You could replace your bench with incline only as well.


 Interesting. So what would an incline only chest routine look like? Incline barbell, dumbbell pressing and maybe even flies?


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> You can transition directly to a deficit.
> 
> A cut can be as long as it has to be to get you to your desired level of leanness.
> 
> The longer the cut and the leaner you are, the more important carb refeeds will become to ensure optimal performance, fat loss and quality of life.
> 
> Depends, a lot of times i will cut with no stims or fat burners and just lower calories. If you want to speed it up, you can throw them in.
> 
> 500 calorie or 25% deficit is what you want to be hitting. This should drop your bodyfat by roughly 1 lbs per week. Fat burners will increase the amount. especially DNP.
> 
> Yohimbine is best for stubborn fat loss and when you're already lean <13%. Good stimulant and libido enhancer/erection aid. It can give you a lot of focus like an adderall/ritalin effect. Great pre-workout that comes in handy when ending a cut.* *Must be taken fasted, period**
> 
> EC stack is great for people who have compliance issues and have cravings. It will also increase CNS output and help you push through fatigue and weakness from cutting, increasing performance.
> 
> T3 is not really that good as a standalone, but it can enhance fatloss when stacked and will help offset metabolic downregulation from extended caloric deficits. It can make you flat and temporarily decrease strength at higher doses >50 mcg.
> 
> DNP is the holy grail and the most versatile, working great at all bodyfat levels, however, many people feel very bad/almost sick with crippling lethargy and malaise. Some DNP abusers have even developed neuropathies/nerve damage.(usually reversible) This compound needs respect, period. It's the fastest way to lose fat and works great stacked with the others.
> 
> Clenbuterol is similar to EC stack, common sides are the shakes. It's been anecdotally known to help dry people out. Burns more fat than EC stack but without appetite suppression.
> 
> Dont ever believe doses given out publicly by celebrity fitness people, 90% of the time it's bullshit. Sometimes it's an ethics thing and they dont want kids jumping on 2 grams of tren because they do it too, other times they dont want people to give credit to their high doses vs the hard work they put in and genetics.


 many thanks once again.... so i think when the time comes for mini bulk (mid year-ish) i will just drop cals, up cardio a bit ,, and then once i plateau ill add in clen or eca* ,,,, then if i stall again ill add t3 ... because its not an all out cut , i want to keep cals as high as possible while still losing fat,,, mostly just to benefit from the rebound phase..

1, its nearly impossible to find ephedrine in aus, any substitutes ? e.g ritalin, duromine , speed lol --- all these i can get fairly easy

2, im s**t scared of DNP because ive listened to dave palumbo too much lol ,, he says the effective dose is too close to lethal dose... is this true ? any places i can read more as ive completely avoided research thinking id never use it .... will the eca counter the lethargy from it ? i need to be able to still work

3, what are you running at the moment? what


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Test prop and winstrol is effective.
> 
> No more than 300 mg per week for test P, cardio and muscular endurance takes a big hit with higher doses of AAS due to muscle pump and increased oxygen consumption.
> 
> 150-300 mg test P
> 
> optional: Winstrol 25 mg daily
> 
> AAS can be very detrimental to athletic performance when used incorrectly.


 Is test e is alright too? I wont be tested

Does ralox have any side effects? I've got a bit of tren / deca gyno i want to try and shrink, its about a year old?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Interesting. So what would an incline only chest routine look like? Incline barbell, dumbbell pressing and maybe even flies?


 You would just be all replacing your flat chest movements with incline ones.

All three exercises mentioned above are very effective. Volume for low to highest in the order stated.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> many thanks once again.... so i think when the time comes for mini bulk (mid year-ish) i will just drop cals, up cardio a bit ,, and then once i plateau ill add in clen or eca* ,,,, then if i stall again ill add t3 ... because its not an all out cut , i want to keep cals as high as possible while still losing fat,,, mostly just to benefit from the rebound phase..
> 
> 1, its nearly impossible to find ephedrine in aus, any substitutes ? e.g ritalin, duromine , speed lol --- all these i can get fairly easy
> 
> 2, im s**t scared of DNP because ive listened to dave palumbo too much lol ,, he says the effective dose is too close to lethal dose... is this true ? any places i can read more as ive completely avoided research thinking id never use it .... will the eca counter the lethargy from it ? i need to be able to still work
> 
> 3, what are you running at the moment? what


 1- If you stall on a cut for +2 weeks, subtract 200 cals from deficit. I say 2 weeks because stalling weight loss while still burning fat is normal due to water retention.

If its that hard to find EC stack just run the clen, for most people its a strongrt fat burner, but you dont get the appetite supression bonus.

2- I like Dave Palumbo, but sometimes he's full of s**t. 200 mg DNP is fairly safe. I usually only recommend 200-250 mg daily, and only 400-500 mg for those with experience running it. You DONT need more, it's already extremely effective and the calorie deficit will do the rest.

3- I'm running 200 mg test prop per week.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Interesting. So what would an incline only chest routine look like? Incline barbell, dumbbell pressing and maybe even flies?


 I like to hit heavy bench first while i'm fresh. I stick to 5-12 rep range usually, reverse pyramid style.

Then hit the dumbbell bench, 8-15 reps usually.

Finally, hit the pec deck machine at the e end. High volume with a hold at the end of the ROM. I love this exercise honestly, really polishes the muscle, as broscience as that sounds haha.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 1- If you stall on a cut for +2 weeks, subtract 200 cals from deficit. I say 2 weeks because stalling weight loss while still burning fat is normal due to water retention.
> 
> If its that hard to find EC stack just run the clen, for most people its a strongrt fat burner, but you dont get the appetite supression bonus.
> 
> 2- I like Dave Palumbo, but sometimes he's full of s**t. 200 mg DNP is fairly safe. I usually only recommend 200-250 mg daily, and only 400-500 mg for those with experience running it. You DONT need more, it's already extremely effective and the calorie deficit will do the rest.
> 
> 3- I'm running 200 mg test prop per week.


 will 250 mg dnp still give lethargy and carb/sugar cravings ? i hear the lethargy and cravings can be pretty intense


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, get Free T4 and Free T3 blood test. You want to bring her Free T4 to the top of the range. This should resolve symptoms.
> 
> If still symptomatic and/or low Free T3 levels, add 5-10 mcg of T3.
> 
> Typical *effective* replacement dose is around 100-150 mcg.
> 
> You want Free T4 levels around 1.6-1.8 ng/dL.
> 
> If she's not losing weight, she's overestimating her TDEE. Reduce calories further by 200. If she's not doing daily cardio, she should start.


 She is eating well under her maintenance. Is the possible that high TST levels are making the metabolism more sluggish and not making her loose weight even on a caloric deficit?

Should she aim at keep on decreasing the deficit till the time she starts loosing weight or first take care of the thyroid levels and then proceed?

Will be going for T3 and T4 levels check today.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> will 250 mg dnp still give lethargy and carb/sugar cravings ? i hear the lethargy and cravings can be pretty intense


 some guys wont feel anything, others will feel malaise even at that dose. Usually not though.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> She is eating well under her maintenance. Is the possible that high TST levels are making the metabolism more sluggish and not making her loose weight even on a caloric deficit?
> 
> Should she aim at keep on decreasing the deficit till the time she starts loosing weight or first take care of the thyroid levels and then proceed?
> 
> Will be going for T3 and T4 levels check today.


 No, even hypothyroid people can lose fat on a deficit. I personally know people who were hypo and cut successfully.

At worst her TDEE is slightly lower than normal, especially if she is symptomatic and sufferring from fatigue, which decreases activity levels.

Many people overestimate their TDEE. How is she calculating hers? The problem is people use too high of an activity multiplier. Most people should use "sedentary" setting on the calculators.

She can keep trying to cut if she wants, what is her height, weight and body fat percentage? What does she do for work and how much cardio? These are things that help determine TDEE.


----------



## Redser

ElChapo said:


> Exactly this, you want dose just enough for the fat burning effect
> 
> It can be a very powerful stimulant, it will increase erection strength and libido as well.
> 
> Overdose sides will be like most stims, anxiety, high BP, palpitations, etc.


 Fuk that so, I'm already anxious enough with college exams think I'll pass so

? :lol:


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

what dosage would you recommend then for yohimbine as a pre, fat burner for the last bit of stubborn fat?

And all in one go apon waking on an empty stomach 1h pre workout or split through day

cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> what dosage would you recommend then for yohimbine as a pre, fat burner for the last bit of stubborn fat?
> 
> And all in one go apon waking on an empty stomach 1h pre workout or split through day
> 
> cheers


 0.2mg per kg of bodyweight

In the morning fasted for fat loss

30 mins for training for pre-workout effect.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Is test e is alright too? I wont be tested
> 
> Does ralox have any side effects? I've got a bit of tren / deca gyno i want to try and shrink, its about a year old?
> 
> Thank you


 I would stick to prop, test e can cause a lot of water retention in some people. Both to the face and body. It happens to me personally.

No real side effects for raloxifene. Run it at 60 mg for 8 weeks-12 weeks. It might go away before then .


----------



## Pancake'

Any idea on what pornstars use prior to performing? hearsay the use of drugs like priligy, clomid, test suspension etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Any idea on what pornstars use prior to performing? hearsay the use of drugs like priligy, clomid, test suspension etc.


 Viagra and caverject for erections.

They use steroids/fat burners for physique enhancement.

Clomid/hcg might be in there too, but that's hearsay. The ones above has been confirmed though.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> I would stick to prop, test e can cause a lot of water retention in some people. Both to the face and body. It happens to me personally.
> 
> No real side effects for raloxifene. Run it at 60 mg for 8 weeks-12 weeks. It might go away before then .


 I heard it increased risk of blood clots / increase in HCT?

But this study found it doesn't

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122230


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Need to stock up on my fish oil and looking at options.

I usually take 6g fish oil which equates to about 2.5-3G combined epa/dha

Ive seen research and lots of people say krill oil is far superior (also far more expensive) due to 1) the bioavailability and 2) because of "Astaxanthin" which apparently is a wonder thing, only found in very few supplemts/food, and has goood research showing improved cognitive enhances and life span.

Althoguh the EPA/DHa is far lower so many combine with fish oil as well to get the levels up

Is krill oil worth it over fish oil? And what is your recommended amounts for reduces inflammation, joints, cognitive improvement etc.

Btw I eat 0 sea food so get nothing from my diet.

Thanks buddy!


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Need to stock up on my fish oil and looking at options.
> 
> I usually take 6g fish oil which equates to about 2.5-3G combined epa/dha
> 
> Ive seen research and lots of people say krill oil is far superior (also far more expensive) due to 1) the bioavailability and 2) because of "Astaxanthin" which apparently is a wonder thing, only found in very few supplemts/food, and has goood research showing improved cognitive enhances and life span.
> 
> Althoguh the EPA/DHa is far lower so many combine with fish oil as well to get the levels up
> 
> Is krill oil worth it over fish oil? And what is your recommended amounts for reduces inflammation, joints, cognitive improvement etc.
> 
> Btw I eat 0 sea food so get nothing from my diet.
> 
> Thanks buddy!


 Carlson's brand is the best combination of quality, reputation, and value. (in my opinion) They've passed many tests with third party/independent laboratories that test products.( like consumer labs) Not overpriced, and it tastes good.

Krill oil isn't worth the fuss. (Astaxanthin is overrated)

Carlson's has a really good liquid fish oil in Lemon and Orange flavor and it tastes pretty good.

If you're taking a good amount, i would go with the liquid.

*https://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Finest-Lemon-Norwegian-Omega-3s/dp/B001LF39RO/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1522798841&sr=8-3&keywords=carlson+fish+oil*

*1-2 grams combined DHA/EPA is plenty for daily consumption. *


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> Carlson's brand is the best combination of quality, reputation, and value. (in my opinion) They've passed many tests with third party/independent laboratories that test products.( like consumer labs) Not overpriced, and it tastes good.
> 
> Krill oil isn't worth the fuss. (Astaxanthin is overrated)
> 
> Carlson's has a really good liquid fish oil in Lemon and Orange flavor and it tastes pretty good.
> 
> If you're taking a good amount, i would go with the liquid.
> 
> *https://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Finest-Lemon-Norwegian-Omega-3s/dp/B001LF39RO/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1522798841&sr=8-3&keywords=carlson+fish+oil*
> 
> *1-2 grams combined DHA/EPA is plenty for daily consumption. *


 Thank you mate. Much appreciated.


----------



## Pancake'

Hypothetical scenario

You've committed some pretty bad crimes elchapo and 3months from now, you'll be sentenced to 1 of the most notoriously violent prisons to date. This is a place with no morals, non existing I.Q inmates, who only understand violence and money. Inmates even control many facilities and ultimately control the prison.

Meanwhile, you'll be preparing for what lies ahead, by becoming as strong, fit and skilful as possible. you have access to a MMA gym, with willing sparring partners and even underground bare knuckle fight events. Unlimited peds available in your arsenal, if you wish to use them, you can even acquire some Dbol and anadrol tablets also available inside.

Knowing everything you know to become prepared for what lies ahead, what would you shift your focus towards and how would you be training to survive?


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> I heard it increased risk of blood clots / increase in HCT?
> 
> But this study found it doesn't
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122230


 Not to any significant degree if any. It acts as an estrogen and blocks estrogen depending on the tissue.

It's an estrogen to bone cells but an anti-estrogen to breast cells.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Hypothetical scenario
> 
> You've committed some pretty bad crimes elchapo and 3months from now, you'll be sentenced to 1 of the most notoriously violent prisons to date. This is a place with no morals, non existing I.Q inmates, who only understand violence and money. Inmates even control many facilities and ultimately control the prison.
> 
> Meanwhile, you'll be preparing for what lies ahead, by becoming as strong, fit and skilful as possible. you have access to a MMA gym, with willing sparring partners and even underground bare knuckle fight events. Unlimited peds available in your arsenal, if you wish to use them, you can even acquire some Dbol and anadrol tablets also available inside.
> 
> Knowing everything you know to become prepared for what lies ahead, what would you shift your focus towards and how would you be training to survive?


 s**t, if you get any decent at grappling and striking, most untrained people don't stand a chance against you but it takes at least a year of consistent training for techniques and movement to start becoming second nature (depending on how quickly you learn).

Honestly, AAS and PEDs have limited application in fighting, their biggest benefit is faster recovery for higher training loads; people training 2-3 x per day 6 days a week 2-4 hours at a time. Higher doses of AAS will slow you down significantly due to the extra weight, pump in the muscles and decrease in cardiovascular endurance. If you're a heavy weight with knockout power, it can mitigate this to a degree but it still stands. (If you saw Francis Ngannou vs Stipe Miocic, you saw his muscles burn through his gas tank very quickly)

To answer the question, i would run 200 mg test P per week, 20 mg winstrol daily, 3 IU GH+ insulin with meals. Train x 2-3 daily, 4 hours at a time, 5 days a week(striking/grappling/conditioning) weekends for rest/recovery/leisure or train EOD with 1 rest day in between.

3 months won't do s**t and you're f**ked though, without access to AAS in the prison, your going to have castrate levels of testosterone in prison. If you're lucky and have a longer time you could try PCT, but generally you are f**ked. If you're skilled enough you might survive though. A striker with great timing, speed and power can take one a couple of guys at once, with some grappling defense thrown in for takedown defense and clinching.

Edit: Just read about the dbol/anadrol tablets available inside the prison. Yes i would run these, i'd take either one at 20-30 mg daily, should cover androgenic/estrogenic receptors enough to tide me over as a kind of HRT. The low dose will minimize liver damage.


----------



## Bull Terrier

El Chapo - what is your view on the usefulness of Heart Rate Variability monitoring for the purpose of avoiding overtraining when you're at low ebb / hitting the gas when your body is up for it?

How would you approach it?


----------



## Hansistyle

@El Chapo @ghost.reconWhat is the theory behind ratio of TEST and TREN? It's individual? One can benefit from,example, 1gr tren and 350mg test? Or there is a rule of maxima that test need be higher? I am willing to try a medium test high tren approach as the cutting become more pronounced. Thank you and sorry if a question already asked


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> El Chapo - what is your view on the usefulness of Heart Rate Variability monitoring for the purpose of avoiding overtraining when you're at low ebb / hitting the gas when your body is up for it?
> 
> How would you approach it?


 It's a cool data point but i think it's micro managing.You should go more by feel, common sense and results when trying to balance training volume.


----------



## ElChapo

Hansistyle said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.reconWhat is the theory behind ratio of TEST and TREN? It's individual? One can benefit from,example, 1gr tren and 350mg test? Or there is a rule of maxima that test need be higher? I am willing to try a medium test high tren approach as the cutting become more pronounced. Thank you and sorry if a question already asked


 It's an individual thing because some people are extremely sensitive to aromatization and others are very sensitive to trenbolone sides like gyno and mood dysfunction/sexual side ffects. Some respond better to one or the other being higher sometimes.

A 1:1 ratio is particularly effective but sides will be higher for most people. Typically if one wants more mass, you will run testosterone higher. For strength and body recomposition/dryer look, the tren will be ran higher.

This ratio is an individual thing that you need to experiment with but 500 mg/500 mg test/tren is extremely effective if you can handle the side effects.


----------



## Pancake'

Is their any free weight exercise other than

Barbell Incline

Dumbbell Incline

Push Press

That can assist in building upper chest? I already do a lot of chin ups too.

Could something like a Incline dumbbell flie serve well to burnout with? I've never performed chest flies ever.


----------



## MarkyMark

Pancake' said:


> Is their any free weight exercise other than
> 
> Barbell Incline
> 
> Dumbbell Incline
> 
> Push Press
> 
> That can assist in building upper chest? I already do a lot of chin ups too.
> 
> Could something like a Incline dumbbell flie serve well to burnout with? I've never performed chest flies ever.


 Standing and kneeling landmine presses


----------



## Jonk891

Are Hawthorn berries useful for bp


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Is their any free weight exercise other than
> 
> Barbell Incline
> 
> Dumbbell Incline
> 
> Push Press
> 
> That can assist in building upper chest? I already do a lot of chin ups too.
> 
> Could something like a Incline dumbbell flie serve well to burnout with? I've never performed chest flies ever.


 Barbell incline, DB incline and pec deck is all you need. More variation isn't going to give you more results. Focus on a building a strong bench for reps. Nobody repping 225 lbs for 15 reps is going to have a small chest, period. Hit the bb bench press with strength and the DB bench and pec deck with volume.

I'm not a fan of chest flys with DB at all, doesn't feel natural on my shoulders. I find the pec deck machine is more controlled and isolates the chest more easily.

Build a stronger bench press and don't worry about bs variations.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Are Hawthorn berries useful for bp


 There seems to be an effect, but no overtly strong potency and it seems to take over 3 months to see an effect. I would focus more on weight loss and exercise or a small dose of metoprolol if the hypertension is severe.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> There seems to be an effect, but no overtly strong potency and it seems to take over 3 months to see an effect. I would focus more on weight loss and exercise or a small dose of metoprolol if the hypertension is severe.


 My bp is fine at the moment but when I go on a cycle is rises even when i cut weight. Trying to find something to have on hand that's mild but effective


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

How many working sets per muscle group would you say is ample per week for hypertrophy.

Lately I have reduced working sets per muscle group to prevent injury and fategue and increase frequency per week for muscle groups hit while keeping overall sets per muscle group down.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How many working sets per muscle group would you say is ample per week for hypertrophy.
> 
> Lately I have reduced working sets per muscle group to prevent injury and fategue and increase frequency per week for muscle groups hit while keeping overall sets per muscle group down.


 1-3 depending on the muscle group, exercise and what parts are lagging. Smaller muscles like biceps/abs can take a lot more volume without affecting recovery. Hitting heavy squats too often will drain your body and be counterproductive, but if you mix in high volume/lighter weight you can throw in an extra day or two.

x 2 per week is a good number though, x 3 for lagging body parts. One heavy day per body part is good, and the rest can be volume.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> My bp is fine at the moment but when I go on a cycle is rises even when i cut weight. Trying to find something to have on hand that's mild but effective


 How high does it get on cycle? I wouldn't worry unless it over 150/90 and that's if you're running the cycle for an extended period. Anything around or under 140/85 is not something i would bother treating on cycle.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> 1-3 depending on the muscle group, exercise and what parts are lagging. Smaller muscles like biceps/abs can take a lot more volume without affecting recovery. Hitting heavy squats too often will drain your body and be counterproductive, but if you mix in high volume/lighter weight you can throw in an extra day or two.
> 
> x 2 per week is a good number though, x 3 for lagging body parts. One heavy day per body part is good, and the rest can be volume.


 Thanks so you are saying for chest, quads and back for example you only need 1 to 3 sets per week for hypertrophy?

Example chest day for me yesterday was (after warmup sets)

3 x flat bench

4 x peck deck flys

3 x Incline BB bench press

Then some mixed isolated tricep work to finish.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> How high does it get on cycle? I wouldn't worry unless it over 150/90 and that's if you're running the cycle for an extended period. Anything around or under 140/85 is not something i would bother treating on cycle.


 What about isolated systolic hypertension, i get 146/65


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> How high does it get on cycle? I wouldn't worry unless it over 150/90 and that's if you're running the cycle for an extended period. Anything around or under 140/85 is not something i would bother treating on cycle.


 I've had it go as high as 160-170/90


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks so you are saying for chest, quads and back for example you only need 1 to 3 sets per week for hypertrophy?
> 
> Example chest day for me yesterday was (after warmup sets)
> 
> 3 x flat bench
> 
> 4 x peck deck flys
> 
> 3 x Incline BB bench press
> 
> Then some mixed isolated tricep work to finish.


 Yes, focusing on getting as strong as possible on your compound exercises.

225 x 15 for bench press with strict form is a good goal. You recall Arnie and Franco hitting 315 lbs like they were push ups on the bench.

Strength+volume builds quality physiques.

If you arent getting stronger, up the calories or cut back a bit on volume. rinse and repeat.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I've had it go as high as 160-170/90


 You can run metoprolol starting at 25-50 mg daily, up to 100 mg daily. You can increase dose every week until you reach desired BP levels.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> What about isolated systolic hypertension, i get 146/65


 On cycle? or always?


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> You can run metoprolol starting at 25-50 mg daily, up to 100 mg daily. You can increase dose every week until you reach desired BP levels.


 Would that be the safest one to run ? What about something like ramipril


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> I would stick to prop, test e can cause a lot of water retention in some people. Both to the face and body. It happens to me personally.
> 
> No real side effects for raloxifene. Run it at 60 mg for 8 weeks-12 weeks. It might go away before then .


 Only problem is i've got 3 bottles of test E i want to use. Im coming back on after 8months off. Planning to run 500mg a week test E for 14/15 weeks.

I want to add in some tren A around week 8 at 200-300mg a week for 8 weeks as I need a bit of a recomp, but it depends on how well ralox takes care of my gyno.

Also got some winstrol, when would you advise running it?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Would that be the safest one to run ? What about something like ramipril


 You can try any of them, just know that you risk your erection and vascular health permanently with BP that high for very long.

Some people have bad reactions to some of the BP meds like feinting and dizziness so start low.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Only problem is i've got 3 bottles of test E i want to use. Im coming back on after 8months off. Planning to run 500mg a week test E for 14/15 weeks.
> 
> I want to add in some tren A around week 8 at 200-300mg a week for 8 weeks as I need a bit of a recomp, but it depends on how well ralox takes care of my gyno.
> 
> Also got some winstrol, when would you advise running it?
> 
> Thanks


 Tren will give you the illusion of recomp by drying you out. Recomp is losing fat while gaining muscle. This can happen if you aren't advanced or have muscle memory and getting back into training with good diet and training regimen.

I would run the tren and winstrol from the start and all the way through the cycle if you have enough. You will have very good results but not as good as if you were running test prop in my experience. Test prop keeps me more full and dryer, but everyone is different.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Tren will give you the illusion of recomp by drying you out. Recomp is losing fat while gaining muscle. This can happen if you aren't advanced or have muscle memory and getting back into training with good diet and training regimen.
> 
> I would run the tren and winstrol from the start and all the way through the cycle if you have enough. You will have very good results but not as good as if you were running test prop in my experience. Test prop keeps me more full and dryer, but everyone is different.


 I've lost quite a lot of muscle, and gained an embarrassing amount of fat since i came off. I've got my diet under control and I've been training well for the last 3/4 months, but theres still a long way to go. I can get more tren, but i won't add it till week 4/5 and my AI ect is dialed in and i've got blood results back. Would I be alright running it for that long at a low dose?


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> I've lost quite a lot of muscle, and gained an embarrassing amount of fat since i came off. I've got my diet under control and I've been training well for the last 3/4 months, but theres still a long way to go. I can get more tren, but i won't add it till week 4/5 and my AI ect is dialed in and i've got blood results back. Would I be alright running it for that long at a low dose?


 Would you be alright from what? Sides? Typically 200-300 mg tren ace is pretty side effect free for most people, at worst they are usually mild sides. Everyone is different.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Would you be alright from what? Sides? Typically 200-300 mg tren ace is pretty side effect free for most people, at worst they are usually mild sides. Everyone is different.


 Yup, last time i ran it at 350 - 500 a week and the sides were quite harsh. Really poor sleep, sweating from walking, breathlessness ect. Last time i wasn't very sensible when i ran it either, didn't get proper bloodwork, but I want to be sensible this time. Just wondering how much that dose would effect lipids ect?


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

On behalf of my mrs.

*First things first, I've just started my first ever Anavar cycle a few days ago. I am starting on 10mg a day, but planning to up it to 20mg. *

_My menstruation cycles have been very regular pre Anavar. I am unable to use any hormonal birth control (pill, injections, coil, etc) so my partner and I have been using an ovulation app to avoid pregnancy. It helps me track my cycle and give an indication of my fertile window when ovulation is likely to happen, __*w*_*e are aware of the risks involved with this*.

*I understand that menstruation is likely to be affected by Anavar, but I am wondering if ovulation is also affected? Can I still rely on the ovulation calendar, or should I consider other forms of contraception?*


----------



## bornagod

@ghost.recon @ElChapo

Just received my blood results, for which i was just checking to see where hct was at really. But as you can see platelet count is high, any reason for this, cos i havent had a cold, infection or anything that would show raised pc.

I have however got constant heart burn and floater type things effecting my vision (not so much that i cant see or hamper my day to day activities but still there) do you think its connected or just coincedence, and nothing to worry about?

Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Yup, last time i ran it at 350 - 500 a week and the sides were quite harsh. Really poor sleep, sweating from walking, breathlessness ect. Last time i wasn't very sensible when i ran it either, didn't get proper bloodwork, but I want to be sensible this time. Just wondering how much that dose would effect lipids ect?


 Some people are better off not taking trenbolone.

Superdrol+winstrol combo is a good alternative.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Yup, last time i ran it at 350 - 500 a week and the sides were quite harsh. Really poor sleep, sweating from walking, breathlessness ect. Last time i wasn't very sensible when i ran it either, didn't get proper bloodwork, but I want to be sensible this time. Just wondering how much that dose would effect lipids ect?


 Lipids will get murdered even on 150 mg of tren ace per week.


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> On behalf of my mrs.
> 
> *First things first, I've just started my first ever Anavar cycle a few days ago. I am starting on 10mg a day, but planning to up it to 20mg. *
> 
> _My menstruation cycles have been very regular pre Anavar. I am unable to use any hormonal birth control (pill, injections, coil, etc) so my partner and I have been using an ovulation app to avoid pregnancy. It helps me track my cycle and give an indication of my fertile window when ovulation is likely to happen, __*w*_*e are aware of the risks involved with this*.
> 
> *I understand that menstruation is likely to be affected by Anavar, but I am wondering if ovulation is also affected? Can I still rely on the ovulation calendar, or should I consider other forms of contraception?*


 If you aren't menstruating, you usually won't be ovulating.

Use the pull out method or condoms if you want to be safe, but generally AAS will stop female cycles.

Why can't she use her birth control?

I'm not a fan of hormonal birth control for females, too many physical and emotional side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> Just received my blood results, for which i was just checking to see where hct was at really. But as you can see platelet count is high, any reason for this, cos i havent had a cold, infection or anything that would show raised pc.
> 
> I have however got constant heart burn and floater type things effecting my vision (not so much that i cant see or hamper my day to day activities but still there) do you think its connected or just coincedence, and nothing to worry about?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> View attachment 153467


 Its technically still in normal range. Many labs go up to 450. I would not worry about it.

Do you have other labs?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Its technically still in normal range. Many labs go up to 450. I would not worry about it.
> 
> Do you have other labs?


 Ah thats ok then. Just thought it may have been an indicator or something with it being high/over normal range.

No nothing to hand, only at the doctors. But they always said everthing is fine, although ive never seen the results for myself.


----------



## sponge2015

ElChapo said:


> If you aren't menstruating, you usually won't be ovulating.
> 
> Use the pull out method or condoms if you want to be safe, but generally AAS will stop female cycles.
> 
> Why can't she use her birth control?
> 
> I'm not a fan of hormonal birth control for females, too many physical and emotional side effects.


 She used to be on the pill mate but made well depressed, came off, fine, back on depressed.

So we only use condoms 3 days before and during her fertile period as we both don't really like them.

on another note she's taking 10mg var as she's competing in bikini fitness this year, i said 10mg is enough but she asked if 20mg would be okay. Whats your view on this? I took your rule of dividing the male dose by 100. I run 100mg var most summers and been happy with the results


----------



## Pancake'

I was listening to a bodybuilder/coach recently, and he was discussing microdosing Tren A at just 10mg a day, do you think such a minuscule dose could be effective?


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> She used to be on the pill mate but made well depressed, came off, fine, back on depressed.
> 
> So we only use condoms 3 days before and during her fertile period as we both don't really like them.
> 
> on another note she's taking 10mg var as she's competing in bikini fitness this year, i said 10mg is enough but she asked if 20mg would be okay. Whats your view on this? I took your rule of dividing the male dose by 100. I run 100mg var most summers and been happy with the results


 Start at 10 mg, many times they overdose the caps too. 20 mg is usually the max female dosage in fact. I've seen a lot of when feel they got "too bulky" on 20 mg, but it depends on her genetics, quality of the anavar, how she trains/eats, how much mass she already has, etc. She's going for bikini, she doesn't want to pack on a ton of muscle unless she has no base to start with at all, then i would advise not using anavar yet.

It's up to her though

That's why i don't like hormonal birth control, it messes too many things up in the process. Many women lose their sex drive or it diminishes in some way, so what's the point then.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I was listening to a bodybuilder/coach recently, and he was discussing microdosing Tren A at just 10mg a day, do you think such a minuscule dose could be effective?


 Depends what your goals are, it can dry you out a bit and might increase libido. I've ran it at between 100-200 mg per week with nice results for drying out and it increased libido and focus.


----------



## swole troll

Pancake' said:


> I was listening to a bodybuilder/coach recently, and he was discussing microdosing Tren A at just 10mg a day, do you think such a minuscule dose could be effective?


 Porter is full of s**t

He's always harping on about these tiny doses

At best they're just maintaining what he built through years of work, excellent genetics and much much higher doses than he ever admits to


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> I would stick to prop, test e can cause a lot of water retention in some people. Both to the face and body. It happens to me personally.
> 
> No real side effects for raloxifene. Run it at 60 mg for 8 weeks-12 weeks. It might go away before then .


 So far so good, its only been 3 days and my gyno is no longer painful / sensitive

Thanks for the advice


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Porter is full of s**t
> 
> He's always harping on about these tiny doses
> 
> At best they're just maintaining what he built through years of work, excellent genetics and much much higher doses than he ever admits to





Pancake' said:


> I was listening to a bodybuilder/coach recently, and he was discussing microdosing Tren A at just 10mg a day, do you think such a minuscule dose could be effective?


 This exactly^ low doses like that aren't too bad for cruising or "enhancing" a TRT protocol. They work good for maintenance, especially if you have great genetics, solid training and diet or don't have crazy amounts of mass and strength you are trying to maintain.

It's going to really come down to your individual goals. Some guys aren't trying to get huge, some guys just want increased performance for sports, there's a whole list.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> So far so good, its only been 3 days and my gyno is no longer painful / sensitive
> 
> Thanks for the advice


 Good, you should see significant improvement within 3-4 weeks, it might even be gone before the 8-12 weeks is up.

The fact that the pain/sensitivity is gone means the flare up and growth have been stopped. Now the reversal begins, just be patient and consistent with your raloxifene protocol and please keep us posted on your progress. I love a good success story and i've seen many with ralox.


----------



## Whoremoan1

1. Can you be at a low bodyfat , say 8-10% but look higher due to water retention ? For example if one was Adrol or dbol ... And does this mean your still in the range of good growth ? Or do you need to 'look' like 8-10% (full abs, striations ) no water...??

2. Apart from half life , what's the difference between eq and bold cyp ? Will you still get same results ?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> 1. Can you be at a low bodyfat , say 8-10% but look higher due to water retention ? For example if one was Adrol or dbol ... And does this mean your still in the range of good growth ? Or do you need to 'look' like 8-10% (full abs, striations ) no water...??
> 
> 2. Apart from half life , what's the difference between eq and bold cyp ? Will you still get same results ?


 Yes, water retention can make you look several % higher in bodyfat. Just like drying compounds can make you look 1-2% body fat lower.

I get better results from shorter esters, that's a purely anecdotal observation, but i always gravitate to shorters esters as i'm a slow responder to begin with, but i also see better results in terms of strength/fullness and less water retention from shorter esters. I would run the cyp, but that's just me.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo do you recommend any way to counteract the nausea on dnp, im feeling very sick in my stomach, don't think i would actually vomit though


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo do you recommend any way to counteract the nausea on dnp, im feeling very sick in my stomach, don't think i would actually vomit though


 If it's really bad you can get some anti-nausea meds from indian pharma websites, AKA zofran/ondansetron and run 4-8 mg with your DNP. You can take this up to x 3 a day.

Other options are bearing with it or discontinuing the DNP.

How much DNP are you running?


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> If it's really bad you can get some anti-nausea meds from indian pharma websites, AKA zofran/ondansetron and run 4-8 mg with your DNP. You can take this up to x 3 a day.
> 
> Other options are bearing with it or discontinuing the DNP.
> 
> How much DNP are you running?


 200mg AM and PM so 400mg total been on dnp for 6 days now and only suffered from the nausea in the past ~2 days

Only running the dnp for 3 weeks so any indian pharma order would arrive just before the end of my cycle. could I eat ginger as an alternative?

@orangeandpears mentioned ensuring you take the DNP with food i have been taking the first dose upon waking so should it make a difference to take it after breakfast instead? ill try that tomorrow

on the plus side i think the constant nausea has destroyed my appetite, ive been eating very small portions. made bangers and mash for lunch and only managed the sausages and couldn't touch the potato or baked beans


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo i can get a prescription for cyclizine tablets from a uk online doctor are they any good


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> 200mg AM and PM so 400mg total been on dnp for 6 days now and only suffered from the nausea in the past ~2 days
> 
> Only running the dnp for 3 weeks so any indian pharma order would arrive just before the end of my cycle. could I eat ginger as an alternative?
> 
> @orangeandpears mentioned ensuring you take the DNP with food i have been taking the first dose upon waking so should it make a difference to take it after breakfast instead? ill try that tomorrow
> 
> on the plus side i think the constant nausea has destroyed my appetite, ive been eating very small portions. made bangers and mash for lunch and only managed the sausages and couldn't touch the potato or baked beans


 Ginger is great and i personally find to help a lot when i have any indigestion, nausea or malaise issues. Organic/Natural ginger ales and teas are very good.

Try taking it with food, that might do the trick and resolve your issues.

That's definitely a bonus but it sucks to feel nauseous haha


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo i can get a prescription for cyclizine tablets from a uk online doctor are they any good


 Yeah, it will work. Common side effect is sleepiness though.


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

What could TM of put in their DHB to stop it crashing, always heard DHB crashes like crazy, my Triumph tren and npp crash non stop and i know this is because they actually dose correctly

Put TM DHB in the fridge and it still never crashed.


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> What could TM of put in their DHB to stop it crashing, always heard DHB crashes like crazy, my Triumph tren and npp crash non stop and i know this is because they actually dose correctly
> 
> Put TM DHB in the fridge and it still never crashed.


 DHB is very hard to keep in solution over 100 mg/mL. You need EO and guiacol to make it even at normal concentrations.

Ethyl oleate at 50-100% of carrier oil ratio + Guiacol will make some crazy stuff hold without crashing and greatly reduce pip.

EO+guaicol is the answer. Some brewers think MCT oil is also better at holding hormones in solution.


----------



## Big Ian

drwae said:


> @ElChapo do you recommend any way to counteract the nausea on dnp, im feeling very sick in my stomach, don't think i would actually vomit though


 99% sure this will disappear if you take it with food mate, same happened to me when I tried taking without food.


----------



## feelinfine

This is more of a training question rather than chemistry related.

How do you keep your ego in check? Last cycle I made the rookie mistake of going too hard and ended up over stressing the tendons in my shoulders and elbows.

Just started a new cycle and I told myself to go easy but once it fully kicks in (running long esters) I'm afraid of making the same mistake.

Is there something I can take to protect my joints?


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> ^I am a huge genetics/endocrinology/pharmacology nerd. I highly recommend 23andme for those who are into science, health and want to know more about themselves.. It is a service that will last you a lifetime as you discover more about your DNA.
> 
> You will even have access to knowledge of if you have a higher ratio of fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber, etc. Very cool stuff


 I did the first part of this process a long time ago, but we never did the second part, I think i may have gotten my stuff back during the time when you guys took a hiatus from here.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> This is more of a training question rather than chemistry related.
> 
> How do you keep your ego in check? Last cycle I made the rookie mistake of going too hard and ended up over stressing the tendons in my shoulders and elbows.
> 
> Just started a new cycle and I told myself to go easy but once it fully kicks in (running long esters) I'm afraid of making the same mistake.
> 
> Is there something I can take to protect my joints?


 Usually, injury oneself is enough of a remimder to take it easy.

When you sprain or hurt anything, take at least 1-2 weeks off completely. it will usually full heal within that time period.

A higher grade injury could take 3-4 weeks, but its when you train while injure that this s**t becomes permanent.

What exactly did you injure and how? I might be able to help you here. No supplement is going to make your joints indestructable.

Good technique is your #1 insurance against injury. When you train too hard, too often, good technique goes in the toilet as you fatigue and start to lose form and focus.


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I did the first part of this process a long time ago, but we never did the second part, I think i may have gotten my stuff back during the time when you guys took a hiatus from here.


 Send me a PM


----------



## Whoremoan1

1, raising bread OR gluten free whole grain bread with strawberry jam pre workout ? (Alongside 8 egg whites/2 full eggs/ cup of oatmeal with half teaspoon honey)

2. Can low dose mt2 help with insulin sensitivity ? If so what dose /how many days Pw

3. What's your thoughts on guru ameens oral method , 2 days Adrol, 2 days winny, 2 days Adrol , 2 winny etc ??

4. What are those growth things on ronnie colemans elbows ? Any way to fix them ? I have them and noticed my father and grandfather have them too ,, is it hereditary ?


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> Usually, injury oneself is enough of a remimder to take it easy.
> 
> When you sprain or hurt anything, take at least 1-2 weeks off completely. it will usually full heal within that time period.
> 
> A higher grade injury could take 3-4 weeks, but its when you train while injure that this s**t becomes permanent.
> 
> What exactly did you injure and how? I might be able to help you here. No supplement is going to make your joints indestructable.
> 
> Good technique is your #1 insurance against injury. When you train too hard, too often, good technique goes in the toilet as you fatigue and start to lose form and focus.


 It was just minor tendonitis which went away once I backed off. Form was okay it was just that I was doing way too much volume too frequently.

I started talking glucosamine but I am not sure if it helps.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> 1, raising bread OR gluten free whole grain bread with strawberry jam pre workout ? (Alongside 8 egg whites/2 full eggs/ cup of oatmeal with half teaspoon honey)
> 
> 2. Can low dose mt2 help with insulin sensitivity ? If so what dose /how many days Pw
> 
> 3. What's your thoughts on guru ameens oral method , 2 days Adrol, 2 days winny, 2 days Adrol , 2 winny etc ??
> 
> 4. What are those growth things on ronnie colemans elbows ? Any way to fix them ? I have them and noticed my father and grandfather have them too ,, is it hereditary ?


 1. Make it lighter, keep pre-workout meal light as too much carbs will make you sleepy/tired from the influx of tryptophan which is the opposite feeling of taking a pre-workout. You want to be in "Fight or flight" mode, not "rest and digest". Keep the meal light.

2. I wouldn't take it for this reason, stick to metformin/januvia/berberine.

3. Messy BS, if you want to run all of them. Run them together. You don't "trick the body". Stacking orals doesn't make liver toxicity worse. Total dosage and time on is the deciding variable.

4. Looks like genetics and maybe overgrowth of bone from all the years of GH, peptides and AAS. Very strange indeed.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> It was just minor tendonitis which went away once I backed off. Form was okay it was just that I was doing way too much volume too frequently.
> 
> I started talking glucosamine but I am not sure if it helps.


 It helps some people, research is mixed but i most medical people will recommend at least a trial run of glucosamine and chondroitin.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 1. Make it lighter, keep pre-workout meal light as too much carbs will make you sleepy/tired from the influx of tryptophan which is the opposite feeling of taking a pre-workout. You want to be in "Fight or flight" mode, not "rest and digest". Keep the meal light.
> 
> 2. I wouldn't take it for this reason, stick to metformin/januvia/berberine.
> 
> 3. Messy BS, if you want to run all of them. Run them together. You don't "trick the body". Stacking orals doesn't make liver toxicity worse. Total dosage and time on is the deciding variable.
> 
> 4. Looks like genetics and maybe overgrowth of bone from all the years of GH, peptides and AAS. Very strange indeed.


 I did try a lighter meal of just the eggs this week but I felt like I had no energy , was still strong but not as much oomph as with the carbs .. I do understand what you mean tho , but if you HAD to pick out of the two would you pick the gluten free bread or raisin bread ?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> I did try a lighter meal of just the eggs this week but I felt like I had no energy , was still strong but not as much oomph as with the carbs .. I do understand what you mean tho , but if you HAD to pick out of the two would you pick the gluten free bread or raisin bread ?


 Add a little carbs, i didnt say zero carbs.

3-6 eggs and 3-4 slices of toast is reasonable.

Bread comes down to preference, only benefit of gluten free bread is for those with celiacs or a sensitivity, other wise its a waste of money.


----------



## Jordan08

As you once said that everyone metabolizes Test at a different rate. Suppose someone is let's say on 125mg Test E or C per week. When one should undergo for blood test to see how much 125mg is keeping his test levels at? I mean undergoing blood test around 4 weeks is understandable but specifically when in 4th week?. Day after the inject or 3 days after the inject or some other day?. Same for E2?

In short, When is the best day to determine the right levels of T & E in 4th week ?


----------



## John Boy 1985

Jordan08 said:


> As you once said that everyone metabolizes Test at a different rate. Suppose someone is let's say on 125mg Test E or C per week. When one should undergo for blood test to see how much 125mg is keeping his test levels at? I mean undergoing blood test around 4 weeks is understandable but specifically when in 4th week?. Day after the inject or 3 days after the inject or some other day?. Same for E2?
> 
> In short, When is the best day to determine the right levels of T & E in 4th week ?


 Mate you always bang on about being natty, yet you ask and answer many questions around aas. Just admit it like the rest of us. Or are you still doing all this research for your first 500mg test onky cycle lool... Cut the crap mate its gettin boring.


----------



## Jordan08

John Boy 1985 said:


> Mate you always bang on about being natty, yet you ask and answer many questions around aas. Just admit it like the rest of us. Or are you still doing all this research for your first 500mg test onky cycle lool... Cut the crap mate *its gettin boring*.


 I find it fun. How a learning can be boring mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> As you once said that everyone metabolizes Test at a different rate. Suppose someone is let's say on 125mg Test E or C per week. When one should undergo for blood test to see how much 125mg is keeping his test levels at? I mean undergoing blood test around 4 weeks is understandable but specifically when in 4th week?. Day after the inject or 3 days after the inject or some other day?. Same for E2?
> 
> In short, When is the best day to determine the right levels of T & E in 4th week ?


 I always like to see level E7D at the day of the next injection, if you are pinning E3D, then i would also test on the day of the next injection.

E3D on E/C ester provides very stable serum levels.

You need 4-6 weeks to reach max concentration in your blood for enanthate/cypionate, 2-3 weeks is enough for testosterone propionate.

4 weeks after, on your next injection that is 7 days apart. If you have to wait to week 5 for that 7 day trough, then do so.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Mate you always bang on about being natty, yet you ask and answer many questions around aas. Just admit it like the rest of us. Or are you still doing all this research for your first 500mg test onky cycle lool... Cut the crap mate its gettin boring.


 I feel most people start using AAS too early, it's good to have a strong natural foundation in training and nutrition and a very strong understanding of AAS before ever touching them.


----------



## Pancake'

I know this is never the case, but I recall Tony Huge + Coach Trevor discussing this topic on E.A

If a natural, 10 years consistent lifting, with a reasonable amount of muscle, nothing crazy, solid strength base did just 1 500mg Test cycle. Not necessarily asking something broad as would he keep the gains, but would he of become greater from a building muscle/strength standpoint and now an advantage in training/building muscle again natural? (Let's say his levels returned.) suggestions the changes to the mynucleui, cells etc are permanent. If so, does this hold benefit?

Take another case, hypothetically speaking here,

Same individual instead did a very aggressive cycle for 24 weeks straight.

1g Tren, 1g Test, 1g NPP, 700mg Winstrol, 600mg Mast, 1g Primo, 1g EQ

Built a ton of tissue, ton of strength in the timeframe, then _attempted_ a aggressive PCT and NEVER touched PEDS ever again, went back training natural for some retarded reason, scrimping for gains/to maintain built physique.

would the individual retain some muscle mass from something so aggressive and would changes to cells etc. All favour the individual, if he returned to training natural again? I know it's absurd and somewhat vague,

I am just interested in, how gene expression, changes that can occur, besides just from a muscle gain perspective. (what we all see) They say, you can never be considered natural again, once you've used peds, but why?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I know this is never the case, but I recall Tony Huge + Coach Trevor discussing this topic on E.A
> 
> If a natural, 10 years consistent lifting, with a reasonable amount of muscle, nothing crazy, solid strength base did just 1 500mg Test cycle. Not necessarily asking something broad as would he keep the gains, but would he of become greater from a building muscle/strength standpoint and now an advantage in training/building muscle again natural? (Let's say his levels returned.) suggestions the changes to the mynucleui, cells etc are permanent. If so, does this hold benefit?
> 
> Take another case, hypothetically speaking here,
> 
> Same individual instead did a very aggressive cycle for 24 weeks straight.
> 
> 1g Tren, 1g Test, 1g NPP, 700mg Winstrol, 600mg Mast, 1g Primo, 1g EQ
> 
> Built a ton of tissue, ton of strength in the timeframe, then _attempted_ a aggressive PCT and NEVER touched PEDS ever again, went back training natural for some retarded reason, scrimping for gains/to maintain built physique.
> 
> would the individual retain some muscle mass from something so aggressive and would changes to cells etc. All favour the individual, if he returned to training natural again? I know it's absurd and somewhat vague,
> 
> I am just interested in, how gene expression, changes that can occur, besides just from a muscle gain perspective. (what we all see) They say, you can never be considered natural again, once you've used peds, but why?


 If the individual is able to recover optimal testosterone levels (unlikely with such a high amount of androgens/especially tren/deca), then he should be able to keep a good amount of the strength and muscle mass. He will lose some, but how much he keeps will come down to genetics, and how well he trains/eats.

He might be able to continue adding strength and muscle naturally after the cycle, but will never attain what he did at the peak of the cycle. This is assuming he somehow regains optimal testosterone levels. Taking grams of tren and deca will cook your testes hard and fast. HCG/HMG might help though.

For most people the above is not feasible and extremely unlikely^

They base this off a norwegian study done on rodents where the animals given steroids were able to continue adding strength and muscle even after they stopped giving them steroids.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

Not sure If you know much about niacin however thought I'd ask.

I would like to take 1g niacin instant every day for the next 2 to 3 weeks to see how if at all it can help better my lipids faster than if I do without the use of it.

That said I get a hard flush if I take it and I cannot look like a beetroot in my work place as it is extremely noticeable. My whole body will go a deep red.

Can I take 1g before bed only or will it only be benificial if split up through out the day?

So I'm other words does taking 1 dose of 1g niacin be as effective as taking 1g split multiple times in the day?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Not sure If you know much about niacin however thought I'd ask.
> 
> I would like to take 1g niacin instant every day for the next 2 to 3 weeks to see how if at all it can help better my lipids faster than if I do without the use of it.
> 
> That said I get a hard flush if I take it and I cannot look like a beetroot in my work place as it is extremely noticeable. My whole body will go a deep red.
> 
> Can I take 1g before bed only or will it only be benificial if split up through out the day?
> 
> So I'm other words does taking 1 dose of 1g niacin be as effective as taking 1g split multiple times in the day?


 The thing with Niacin is that it lowers your insulin sensitivity by as much as it increases your HDL (15-20%), personally not worth it unless you stacked with metformin/januvia/berberine.

You can split the dose or take it at once, though studies with daily dosing used "extended release" formulations. I wouldn't worry about "Extended release" just take the whole dose at night if you're going to take it.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo Hi mate few questions for you if you can help please.

1. Im almost 48 now and I think im done with harsh orals and the likes of tren, so looking ahead to my next cycle im wondering what to take.

I will be cruising first then donating blood before I start with test as a base im not sure what to add as a second oil.

2. EQ masteron DHB Deca are the oils id be interested in EQ and DHB ive never used yet though.

3. Is EQ as bad as deca for HTC/RBC blood pressure issues ?

4. Im wanting to add mass im not bothered if I add a little fat I can get lean later. Currently around 14%-16% bf 14 stone 10lb 5' 10".

5. What would you recommend oil and dosage wise in the past ive went to 1250mg test e 1200mg dea.

Thank you for any help appreciate it.


----------



## stewedw

Been on test and winny for four weeks, cutting for my holiday, two weeks to go. Any benifits to increasing winny from 100mg to 150mg per day for the last two weeks? Using a ugl so don't know how accurate they are dosed, definitely don't seem as strong as the 50mg tabs ive used a year or so ago.

Cheer.s


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo if ive used arimidex for almost a year and never had any issues, is there any reason i should switch to aromasin? people say its better for health etc


----------



## GeordieOak70

drwae said:


> @ElChapo if ive used arimidex for almost a year and never had any issues, is there any reason i should switch to aromasin? people say its better for health etc


 I changed to aromasin about 6 months ago due to suddenly finding it really hard to dial my estrogen in using adex.

Ive found it much easier on aromasin and apparently its less harsh on lipids.


----------



## Abc987

GeordieOak70 said:


> I changed to aromasin about 6 months ago due to suddenly finding it really hard to dial my estrogen in using adex.
> 
> Ive found it much easier on aromasin and apparently its less harsh on lipids.


 This.

It seems guns doesn't flair up with aromasin but does at whatever dose of Arimidex I tried, even at one stage went up to 1mg ed.

I should really get bloods done whilst on cycle but seem to be managing fine on 12.5mg wed/sun on around 4-450mg test. Been using sphinx since Xmas but have a couple pots of triumph when the sphinx runs out


----------



## GeordieOak70

Abc987 said:


> This.
> 
> It seems guns doesn't flair up with aromasin but does at whatever dose of Arimidex I tried, even at one stage went up to 1mg ed.
> 
> I should really get bloods done whilst on cycle but seem to be managing fine on 12.5mg wed/sun on around 4-450mg test. Been using sphinx since Xmas but have a couple pots of triumph when the sphinx runs out


 Same here mate 12.5mg x2 a week on 600mg test had my estrogen top end of the range which is great during a bulk.

Test cut in half on a cut using same 12.5mg x2 a week and estro mid range or slightly lower so again perfect.

I also feel better mentally on aromasin.


----------



## Abc987

GeordieOak70 said:


> Same here mate 12.5mg x2 a week on 600mg test had my estrogen top end of the range which is great during a bulk.
> 
> Test cut in half on a cut using same 12.5mg x2 a week and estro mid range or slightly lower so again perfect.
> 
> I also feel better mentally on aromasin.


 Will be interesting to see how I get on next tren cycle. Last time I was also using ralox to reduce but wanna see how/if it flairs up with just aromasin alone!


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo Does sperm volume have any correlation to fertility? I have been blasting and cruising for over a year now using HCG throughout at 400iu twice per week. My sperm load is huge and seems to be even more on cycle than it ever was before touching AAS. I know that sperm can be inactive/immobile etc but just wondering whether the fact that I produce large amounts of cum has any relation to whether I am maintaining fertility or not. Thanks.


----------



## 2time

Sorry if I'm not supposed to do this but I started a new topic, but nobody's replied to me. @ElChapo would be able to comment on my blood results on the link below please. If like doesn't work then my topic is on the next page. Just after advice please.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/313995-blood-results-help-please/?do=embed


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo Does sperm volume have any correlation to fertility? I have been blasting and cruising for over a year now using HCG throughout at 400iu twice per week. My sperm load is huge and seems to be even more on cycle than it ever was before touching AAS. I know that sperm can be inactive/immobile etc but just wondering whether the fact that I produce large amounts of cum has any relation to whether I am maintaining fertility or not. Thanks.


 Nope, but i'm sure the hcg is helping.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo if ive used arimidex for almost a year and never had any issues, is there any reason i should switch to aromasin? people say its better for health etc


 Not worth it if you're dialed in with arimidex. Getting dialed in takes a lot of work. As long as your note cooking your E2 to very low levels, you are good to go.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo Hi mate few questions for you if you can help please.
> 
> 1. Im almost 48 now and I think im done with harsh orals and the likes of tren, so looking ahead to my next cycle im wondering what to take.
> 
> I will be cruising first then donating blood before I start with test as a base im not sure what to add as a second oil.
> 
> 2. EQ masteron DHB Deca are the oils id be interested in EQ and DHB ive never used yet though.
> 
> 3. Is EQ as bad as deca for HTC/RBC blood pressure issues ?
> 
> 4. Im wanting to add mass im not bothered if I add a little fat I can get lean later. Currently around 14%-16% bf 14 stone 10lb 5' 10".
> 
> 5. What would you recommend oil and dosage wise in the past ive went to 1250mg test e 1200mg dea.
> 
> Thank you for any help appreciate it.


 I'm not an EQ guy but some people swear by it at +1 g. It's slow to start, so if you can get the cypionate ester, i would go with that. It's fairly mild, but some guys feel anxious on it. The RBC thing is pretty much a myth and it's not any better or worse than testosterone in that regard.

I'm not partial to deca either due to gyno flare ups. DHB is pretty good, 300-600 mg is a solid dose. It's a dry compound. Masteron isn't too good a mass builder and it's polishing effect is limited.

I would give a high dose test prop cycle a shot (+700 mg pw) and you can add NPP and/or DHB to that. You've ran high doses before, so you can push those up +700 mg per week as well. You can stack all three or do test with either one. It should be very effective and fairly mild on the side effects as long as you respond well to deca.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Been on test and winny for four weeks, cutting for my holiday, two weeks to go. Any benifits to increasing winny from 100mg to 150mg per day for the last two weeks? Using a ugl so don't know how accurate they are dosed, definitely don't seem as strong as the 50mg tabs ive used a year or so ago.
> 
> Cheer.s


 You won't get much more benefit but significant increase in side effects/health risk. I wouldn't do it. 100 mg is already pushing it. It could be underdosed, but winstrol powder is very very cheap.


----------



## ElChapo

2time said:


> Sorry if I'm not supposed to do this but I started a new topic, but nobody's replied to me. @ElChapo would be able to comment on my blood results on the link below please. If like doesn't work then my topic is on the next page. Just after advice please.
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/313995-blood-results-help-please/?do=embed


 I'll take a look


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> You won't get much more benefit but significant increase in side effects/health risk. I wouldn't do it. 100 mg is already pushing it. It could be underdosed, but winstrol powder is very very cheap.


 Noted. Thank you


----------



## Jonk891

I have a unopened vial of dsip, is it worth using


----------



## h3ndy

@ElChapo I was going to cycle but have decided to blast and cruise, just wondering what your thoughts are on HCG....is it essential to use it?


----------



## MrBishi

Stacking moderate dosages of Test, Deca & Tren (300-400mg of each), thoughts?

Would you expect prolactin would go thru the roof? Do Deca & Tren they have a synergy together, or is it just to much 19-nor?


----------



## MrBishi

h3ndy said:


> @ElChapo I was going to cycle but have decided to blast and cruise, just wondering what your thoughts are on HCG....is it essential to use it?


 Do you want any chance of having kids in the future? :lol:


----------



## h3ndy

MrBishi said:


> Do you want any chance of having kids in the future? :lol:


 I'm not interested in having kids


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I have a unopened vial of dsip, is it worth using


 Helps with sleep, don't know too much about it.


----------



## ElChapo

h3ndy said:


> @ElChapo I was going to cycle but have decided to blast and cruise, just wondering what your thoughts are on HCG....is it essential to use it?


 HCG is only useful for those trying to preserve fertility or testicular size. If you care about neither, then you don't need it.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Stacking moderate dosages of Test, Deca & Tren (300-400mg of each), thoughts?
> 
> Would you expect prolactin would go thru the roof? Do Deca & Tren they have a synergy together, or is it just to much 19-nor?


 Most people don't experience elevated prolactin from 19-nors. This is a recipe for gyno for those who are prone to it.

You can mix the three with good results though. Test/deca/tren will go a lot farther than test/tren/mast. I would run test p/tren a/npp. I am partial to the short esters. 300-600 mg each will do for most people's goals.


----------



## h3ndy

ElChapo said:


> HCG is only useful for those trying to preserve fertility or testicular size. If you care about neither, then you don't need it.


 Ok mate that's brilliant thank you


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> I'm not an EQ guy but some people swear by it at +1 g. It's slow to start, so if you can get the cypionate ester, i would go with that. It's fairly mild, but some guys feel anxious on it. The RBC thing is pretty much a myth and it's not any better or worse than testosterone in that regard.
> 
> I'm not partial to deca either due to gyno flare ups. DHB is pretty good, 300-600 mg is a solid dose. It's a dry compound. Masteron isn't too good a mass builder and it's polishing effect is limited.
> 
> I would give a high dose test prop cycle a shot (+700 mg pw) and you can add NPP and/or DHB to that. You've ran high doses before, so you can push those up +700 mg per week as well. You can stack all three or do test with either one. It should be very effective and fairly mild on the side effects as long as you respond well to deca.


 Thank you very much yes ive pushed deca to 1200mg had no issues that couldn't be remedied and nothing major.

Tempted with DHB but pip stories scare me off a bit as I suffer pip with high concentrated tests.

Now to decide DHB or EQ lol ty mate.


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> Most people don't experience elevated prolactin from 19-nors. This is a recipe for gyno for those who are prone to it.
> 
> You can mix the three with good results though. Test/deca/tren will go a lot farther than test/tren/mast. *I would run test p/tren a/npp. I am partial to the short esters. 300-600 mg each will do for most people's goals. *


 Wow that'd be a lot of pinning and ml's.

Been trying to get my head round the stack. The easiest way I can see is 300mg Test E & 450mg Deca once a week, and then 100mg of Ace EOD.

If it was all short esters... :confused1: how would you go about it?


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> Nope, but i'm sure the hcg is helping.


 Ok thanks and also one more question.

I believe that haematocrit is the ratio of volume of RBCs to volume of total blood. So by donating blood, you're removing plasma as well as RBCs and considering the ratio of RBCs to plasma is close to 1:1, then surely donating blood would leave you with the same ratio, therefore same haematocrit? (Less total blood volume obviously) Thanks in advance


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

what will give more results 750mg EQ or 300mg DHB?


----------



## Jonk891

Would krill oil be a better option over omega 3 fish oil as it oxidizes less

Would omega 7 be better than both of the above ?


----------



## superdrol

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what will give more results 750mg EQ or 300mg DHB?


 Having a break and finishing your year long first cycle would benefit you :thumbup1:


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo hi mate after a lot of reading im going to go with Deca once again or npp.

DHB seems good but too expensive to run for me to try and see if its any good for me.

EQ I don't think is the best builder so im looking at Deca/NPP again.

900 test E 800 deca / 700 test P 700 npp. undecided on ester to use yet.

Thank you for your input mate.


----------



## Avgs

What causes tren gyno? Does caber prevent it?


----------



## MarkyMark

Hi @ElChapo

Bit of a worrying one here - Im not sure what your experience is with peptides but here goes

So around 4 weeks ago I started Ghrp2 with mod gfr without dac 4 times per day. At the start I got a blood test 40 mins post injection to confirm it was not bunk and HGH came back as 60 ug/l with 0 - 3 ug/l being the normal range. Albeit this would have quickly returned to baseline in around 3 hrs based on other study but I did not test this myself. So I was elevating my gh for the best part of 12 to 15 hrs per day for around 4 weeks. I did this to heal a few nagging injurys which to be honest are a hell of a lot better and training has become much more pain free for me!

I know CTS is something that is common with HGH and the same with peptides - I did not experience this.

However 2 weeks or so into use I noticed chronic pains in my anckel and lower shins, also my right achilles became permanently knumb and I get a kind of electric shock feeling when I scratch an area of the upper achilles where it meets the calf muscle.

Furthermore I did get water retention/swelling of the ankles while using.

I have discontinued the use of the peptides for a week now and water retention and selling of ankles has gone back to normal. the pain in ankles and more worryingly the sensitive nerv and numbness in my right achiles are STILL there.

1. I understand water retention around the nerves causes CTS in the hands and arms when using HGH or peptides, is it possible that I am experiencing this but in ankles only?

2. Typically how long after stop using HGH/peps does it take for CTS to disappear?

3. If water retention is what causes CTS when using HGH how come one does NOT experience this if using DECA, High test or letting E2 run high, all of which would cause you to hold more water, is water retention for HGH "different"?

4. I'm not sure if it is CTS in the anckel or just causing pain in my lower shins and ankles, can this be a side effect of HGH?

5. I'm a little worried that I have caused permanent nerv damage, is this possible when using HGH or peps?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Wow that'd be a lot of pinning and ml's.
> 
> Been trying to get my head round the stack. The easiest way I can see is 300mg Test E & 450mg Deca once a week, and then 100mg of Ace EOD.
> 
> If it was all short esters... :confused1: how would you go about it?


 Get higher concentration brew, like 150 mg test P and 200 mg NPP. Use 1 mL slin pins ED or 25 gauge 3 cc pins m, w, f.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Ok thanks and also one more question.
> 
> I believe that haematocrit is the ratio of volume of RBCs to volume of total blood. So by donating blood, you're removing plasma as well as RBCs and considering the ratio of RBCs to plasma is close to 1:1, then surely donating blood would leave you with the same ratio, therefore same haematocrit? (Less total blood volume obviously) Thanks in advance


 No, because the body needs to replace the volume lost. RBC takes longer to replace than plasma which is proteins and water basically. So you are left with diluted blood when the body replaces the lost volume with mostly plasma; reduced HCT%.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what will give more results 750mg EQ or 300mg DHB?


 I'd go with the DHB and let the testosterone do the heavy lifting. It might be cheaper to run the EQ at 1 gram, cause i would do the DHB at 600 mg. (since you are used to higher mg)


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Would krill oil be a better option over omega 3 fish oil as it oxidizes less
> 
> Would omega 7 be better than both of the above ?


 No, just buy a high quality, reputable fish oil brand like Carlson's.

No, omega 3 the fatty acid we need to get in our diet, we already get too much of the others.


----------



## drwae

superdrol said:


> Having a break and finishing your year long first cycle would benefit you :thumbup1:


 I am only on 1ml of test a week


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Bit of a worrying one here - Im not sure what your experience is with peptides but here goes
> 
> So around 4 weeks ago I started Ghrp2 with mod gfr without dac 4 times per day. At the start I got a blood test 40 mins post injection to confirm it was not bunk and HGH came back as 60 ug/l with 0 - 3 ug/l being the normal range. Albeit this would have quickly returned to baseline in around 3 hrs based on other study but I did not test this myself. So I was elevating my gh for the best part of 12 to 15 hrs per day for around 4 weeks. I did this to heal a few nagging injurys which to be honest are a hell of a lot better and training has become much more pain free for me!
> 
> I know CTS is something that is common with HGH and the same with peptides - I did not experience this.
> 
> However 2 weeks or so into use I noticed chronic pains in my anckel and lower shins, also my right achilles became permanently knumb and I get a kind of electric shock feeling when I scratch an area of the upper achilles where it meets the calf muscle.
> 
> Furthermore I did get water retention/swelling of the ankles while using.
> 
> I have discontinued the use of the peptides for a week now and water retention and selling of ankles has gone back to normal. the pain in ankles and more worryingly the sensitive nerv and numbness in my right achiles are STILL there.
> 
> 1. I understand water retention around the nerves causes CTS in the hands and arms when using HGH or peptides, is it possible that I am experiencing this but in ankles only?
> 
> 2. Typically how long after stop using HGH/peps does it take for CTS to disappear?
> 
> 3. If water retention is what causes CTS when using HGH how come one does NOT experience this if using DECA, High test or letting E2 run high, all of which would cause you to hold more water, is water retention for HGH "different"?
> 
> 4. I'm not sure if it is CTS in the anckel or just causing pain in my lower shins and ankles, can this be a side effect of HGH?
> 
> 5. I'm a little worried that I have caused permanent nerv damage, is this possible when using HGH or peps?
> 
> Thanks


 1. Tarsal tunnel syndrome

2. Give it about 4-6 weeks ( Will likely be sooner)

3. It's not the water retention, that's broscience. The theory is that the expanding tissues compress each other, growth hormone causes growth. This compression leads to nerve discomfort as the nerve gets squeezed by surrounding tissues.

4. Tarsal tunnel syndrome

5. I doubt you have any permanent damage. You should feel fine by 4 weeks after discontinuation. Other wise, the problem is something else.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> What causes tren gyno? Does caber prevent it?


 It seems trenbolone is able to bind and activate E2 and progesterone receptors. it can also potentiate the action of IGF-1, which is known to also cause gyno when elevated, albeit rarely.

Caber doesn't work in my opinion but some people swear by it. It can alleviate a lot of the mental sides due to dopamine agonism, but prolactin is not the cause of tren gyno.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> It seems trenbolone is able to bind and activate E2 and progesterone receptors. it can also potentiate the action of IGF-1, which is known to also cause gyno when elevated, albeit rarely.
> 
> Caber doesn't work in my opinion but some people swear by it. It can alleviate a lot of the mental sides due to dopamine agonism, but prolactin is not the cause of tren gyno.


 Would running ralox prevent it / keep it at bay


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> 1. Tarsal tunnel syndrome
> 
> 2. Give it about 4-6 weeks ( Will likely be sooner)
> 
> 3. It's not the water retention, that's broscience. The theory is that the expanding tissues compress each other, growth hormone causes growth. This compression leads to nerve discomfort as the nerve gets squeezed by surrounding tissues.
> 
> 4. Tarsal tunnel syndrome
> 
> 5. I doubt you have any permanent damage. You should feel fine by 4 weeks after discontinuation. Other wise, the problem is something else.


 thanks mate,

so from your reply i am assuming that TTS is a common side of elevated GH when using peps or HGH albeit not as common as CTS?

That is interesting regarding the water retention theory. what tissue is "expanding" and trapping nervs? i understand that HGH without the use of insulin has little effect on actual muscle growth itself but more so makes you look fuller while using them.


----------



## superdrol

drwae said:


> I am only on 1ml of test a week


 You forgetting the dnp, you don't do anything sensible...


----------



## Testdecadbol

Anckel


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Would running ralox prevent it / keep it at bay


 I'm still collecting data on that, it seems it works for some guys and not for others. The good thing is that it definitely works once you discontinue the trenbolone.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> thanks mate,
> 
> so from your reply i am assuming that TTS is a common side of elevated GH when using peps or HGH albeit not as common as CTS?
> 
> That is interesting regarding the water retention theory. what tissue is "expanding" and trapping nervs? i understand that HGH without the use of insulin has little effect on actual muscle growth itself but more so makes you look fuller while using them.


 Connective tissue. It grows in response to GH/IGF stimulation. Ligaments, tendons and muscle fascia.


----------



## SimpleLimit

@ElChapo

Hey mate, I saw a post you mentioning ai in a different thread, my question is how will it affect your cycle if your estrogen is way to low/high?


----------



## ElChapo

SimpleLimit said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey mate, I saw a post you mentioning ai in a different thread, my question is how will it affect your cycle if your estrogen is way to low/high?


 Very low E2 will affect your stamina and strength, a long time ago i tried the broscience letrozole 2.5 mg daily. My strength went to complete s**t and i felt like garbage. Sex drive will usually take a big hit and it can affect erections negatively. Low E2 is also bad for the vascular system and increases the rate of atherosclerosis ( plaque in arteries/hardening)

High E2 won't really affect your strength or stamina, but will increase your risk of mood swings, depression/anxiety/agitation, so called "roid rage" that some people get is usually elevated E2. Your risk of gyno also goes up, as well as stroke, heart attack and blood clots. Risk of erectile dysfunction is also much higher.

Generally, an optimal E2 level will have you feeling and performing at your best while conferring significant health benefits.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo do you know if taking 5-htp and ashwaghanda together reduce the effectiveness of each other at all? taking them for sleep/anxiety


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo appreciate all this free knowledge you're giving out, have a question relating to the heart. When I was a child (14) I had a cardiac ablation which solved my tachycardia (SVT). Ever since then every month or so I will get a flutter in my heart which doesn't cause any discomfort but worries me slightly. The use of AAS for the past few years has not increased the amount of flutters I have they have stayed regular and can occur anytime, training or resting. Do you think using AAS will cause potential issues in the future and greatly increase my risk of heart attack? I know this should probably be directed to a cardiologist but wondered if you had any knowledge in this field. Thanks.

Edit - blood pressure and heart rate always been kept in range through diet and cardio. Never have or will use stimulants, only a coffee a day which doesn't seem to have any effect.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo do you know if taking 5-htp and ashwaghanda together reduce the effectiveness of each other at all? taking them for sleep/anxiety


 No, ashwaghanda doesn't just work through the serotonergic mechanisms but also through the gaba receptor. It does also seem to increase serotonin levels and activity in the brain. There should be a synergistic effect if any.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo appreciate all this free knowledge you're giving out, have a question relating to the heart. When I was a child (14) I had a cardiac ablation which solved my tachycardia (SVT). Ever since then every month or so I will get a flutter in my heart which doesn't cause any discomfort but worries me slightly. The use of AAS for the past few years has not increased the amount of flutters I have they have stayed regular and can occur anytime, training or resting. Do you think using AAS will cause potential issues in the future and greatly increase my risk of heart attack? I know this should probably be directed to a cardiologist but wondered if you had any knowledge in this field. Thanks.


 No, there should be very little chance of the AAS reversing/bringing back the same heart issue due to the nature of the procedure which is permanent.

AAS abuse in susceptible individuals can impair heart function and cardiovascular health so i would tread extra carefully seeing as you have a medical history albeit resolved one.

Any doctor or clinician would tell you, absolutely do not touch AAS, but this is coming from a liability stand point to cover their asses.

If i tell you honestly, in my opinion, if you cycle carefully you should be okay because of the nature of your condition, which was a type of tachycardia, caused by an electrical malfunction in your heart which was permanently resolved by the surgery. (electrical pathway removed/ablated) It's not the kind of thing that comes back.


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> No, there should be very little chance of the AAS reversing/bringing back the same heart issue due to the nature of the procedure which is permanent.
> 
> AAS abuse in susceptible individuals can impair heart function and cardiovascular health so i would tread extra carefully seeing as you have a medical history albeit resolved one.
> 
> Any doctor or clinician would tell you, absolutely do not touch AAS, but this is coming from a liability stand point to cover their asses.
> 
> If i tell you honestly, in my opinion, if you cycle carefully you should be okay because of the nature of your condition, which was a type of tachycardia, caused by an electrical malfunction in your heart which was permanently resolved by the surgery. (electrical pathway removed/ablated) It's not the kind of thing that comes back.


 Thanks for the quick response that's good news to hear. I will and always have cycled sensibly with low doses but knowing that going to a doctor about this would result in only one response, never to touch AAS, which is probably the safest route but once you start the journey of PEDs it is extremely hard to stop. Do you think the flutters at one stage in later life could cause a myocardial infarction? Or are they not a great concern as I know many people encounter them?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Thanks for the quick response that's good news to hear. I will and always have cycled sensibly with low doses but knowing that going to a doctor about this would result in only one response, never to touch AAS, which is probably the safest route but once you start the journey of PEDs it is extremely hard to stop. Do you think the flutters at one stage in later life could cause a myocardial infarction? Or are they not a great concern as I know many people encounter them?


 You mean the flutters you had before your surgery? I don't think you were old enough before the surgery for any serious negative heart changes to have taken place. Kids and teenagers bodies are extremely resilient to damage.

If you are having flutters now, i would be concerned.


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> You mean the flutters you had before your surgery? I don't think you were old enough before the surgery for any serious negative heart changes to have taken place. Kids and teenagers bodies are extremely resilient to damage.
> 
> If you are having flutters now, i would be concerned.


 Yes palpitations still occur once in a while and have done since surgery. No episodes of SVT (random period of heart rate above 150bpm when resting) have occurred since the surgery otherwise I would have been straight back to the doctor. After the first few palpitations about a year after the surgery I spoke to a cardiologist who said that they could be premature ventricular contractions which is common amongst young athletic individuals.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Yes palpitations still occur once in a while and have done since surgery. No episodes of SVT (random period of heart rate above 150bpm when resting) have occurred since the surgery otherwise I would have been straight back to the doctor. After the first few palpitations about a year after the surgery I spoke to a cardiologist who said that they could be premature ventricular contractions which is common amongst young athletic individuals.


 Did they investigate further? I would be very careful about running AAS. If i were you, i would finish up building up your dream physique and maintain that on HRT doses of testosterone.

I wouldn't be messing with bodybuilding doses and compounds, but HRT will have a protective effect on your heart health and you can maintain very impressive physique and strength on HRT doses of testosterone. That's my 2 cents.

Are you close to the level of development you were hoping for?


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> Did they investigate further? I would be very careful about running AAS. If i were you, i would finish up building up your dream physique and maintain that on HRT doses of testosterone.
> 
> I wouldn't be messing with bodybuilding doses and compounds, but HRT will have a protective effect on your heart health and you can maintain very impressive physique and strength on HRT doses of testosterone. That's my 2 cents.
> 
> Are you close to the level of development you were hoping for?


 They monitored my heart over the course of a week but no problems were recorded during this time. They said that the most likely cause is a premature beat which is common and may happen from time to time. Unfortunately not near my physique goals yet however I would always put health before aesthetics. I think a trip to the doctors is due I will see what they say, now at an age where I am happy to push them for further investigation. I will keep AAS out of the conversation with the doctor and remain at TRT dose until/or if I get an all clear. I have spoken to many (10+) people via forums who have had cardiac ablations and the majority still do experience occasional flutters which is why I hadn't been hugely concerned until now.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> They monitored my heart over the course of a week but no problems were recorded during this time. They said that the most likely cause is a premature beat which is common and may happen from time to time. Unfortunately not near my physique goals yet however I would always put health before aesthetics. I think a trip to the doctors is due I will see what they say, now at an age where I am happy to push them for further investigation. I will keep AAS out of the conversation with the doctor and remain at TRT dose until/or if I get an all clear. I have spoken to many (10+) people via forums who have had cardiac ablations and the majority still do experience occasional flutters which is why I hadn't been hugely concerned until now.


 Try to set a finite timeline to a reasonable physique goal. Something attainable and sustainable, or else you are playing with fire.

People are never satisfied and will keep cycling and adding compounds and upping dosages.

The above recommendation is the best of both worlds and makes some compromise while still giving you some freedom to reach your goals. That's what i would do if i were in your shoes myself.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> I'm still collecting data on that, it seems it works for some guys and not for others. The good thing is that it definitely works once you discontinue the trenbolone.


 Guess i'll be a part of that experiment

Gonna be running test e 500mg a week for the next 5 weeks, then once im done with exams for this semester recomp with:

500mg test e, 300mg tren a, 25 winstrol ed for 8-10 weeks


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

I've been blasting and cruising for some time now without HCG. I got my mrs pregnant while 6 weeks pre-contest last year, so whilst on decent doses of the usual pre-contest meds.

I want to start HCG use to try to maintain fertility from this point forward in case needed in future and also because I've forgotten what my testicles look like lol.

I'm about to begin my next AAS offseason blast, do I need to run some sort of HCG blast to bring the balls back to size or can i just begin a regular 500u twice per week protocol and they'll regain size eventually? I'm happy to use it long term with my blast/cruise but just unsure if I need a 'kickstart' first.

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Guess i'll be a part of that experiment
> 
> Gonna be running test e 500mg a week for the next 5 weeks, then once im done with exams for this semester recomp with:
> 
> 500mg test e, 300mg tren a, 25 winstrol ed for 8-10 weeks


 Let me know how it goes, have you gotten gyno from trenbolone before?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've been blasting and cruising for some time now without HCG. I got my mrs pregnant while 6 weeks pre-contest last year, so whilst on decent doses of the usual pre-contest meds.
> 
> I want to start HCG use to try to maintain fertility from this point forward in case needed in future and also because I've forgotten what my testicles look like lol.
> 
> I'm about to begin my next AAS offseason blast, do I need to run some sort of HCG blast to bring the balls back to size or can i just begin a regular 500u twice per week protocol and they'll regain size eventually? I'm happy to use it long term with my blast/cruise but just unsure if I need a 'kickstart' first.
> 
> Thanks!


 Just run the 500 iu x 2 per week from the start. Balls should be back by 4 weeks. It could take longer due to prolonged shutdown.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Let me know how it goes, have you gotten gyno from trenbolone before?


 It was either tren or deca, or both, not 100% sure


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> It was either tren or deca, or both, not 100% sure


 They can both do it, so this will be a great experiment.


----------



## Avgs

Do you have any tips for injecting quads? Whenever I've tried, Its painful and starts bleeding, or my leg starts twitching like I'm near a nerve. I'm following the instructions from spotinjections website


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo can you use nolva while on tren for gyno if you're using caber as well, people say it increases prolactin


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

say I've got 20 caps of 200mg DNP left and I've been taking 400mg a day and tolerating it very well, yes I sweat constantly in a building that has the heating on but since I'm at home and keep the heating off, or working right near an open door most of the time I'm fine

would it be more effective for fat burning to use my remaining caps like this:

400mg for 10 days

or 600mg for 6 1/ 2 days?


----------



## Avgs

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> say I've got 20 caps of 200mg DNP left and I've been taking 400mg a day and tolerating it very well, yes I sweat constantly in a building that has the heating on but since I'm at home and keep the heating off, or working right near an open door most of the time I'm fine
> 
> would it be more effective for fat burning to use my remaining caps like this:
> 
> 400mg for 10 days
> 
> or 600mg for 6 1/ 2 days?


 were supposed to be having a warm spell soon


----------



## drwae

Avgs said:


> were supposed to be having a warm spell soon


 I know i live in fu**ing scotland and it's due to reach 17 degrees next week, it's been around 4-5 degrees lately


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Do you have any tips for injecting quads? Whenever I've tried, Its painful and starts bleeding, or my leg starts twitching like I'm near a nerve. I'm following the instructions from spotinjections website


 It has the highest chance of causing pip due to having the highest density of nerves and blood vessels of any common injection site.

Tips: 1. Stick the upper right quadrant only. 2. Flex first the locate a good mound of muscle, then relax, wipe the spot with swab and inject. 3. My favorite needle is 5/8th and 1/2 inch 29-31 gauge or 25 gauge for bigger syringes.

The deeper the needle goes into the quad, the higher the risk of pip on injection, hitting a nerve or blood vessels. Always try to pick the shortest needle possible necessary to penetrate into the muscle at your bodyfat level.

Those with lower body fat can use shorter needles, i would stick to anything under 1 inch if you can help it.

I highly recommend you add ventrogluteal (not glutes) injection sites to your rotation. It contains the least amount of nerves, is a rarely used muscle and fairly easy to access.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo can you use nolva while on tren for gyno if you're using caber as well, people say it increases prolactin


 Nolva and raloxifene are the best anti-gyno drugs period.

Nolva can cause brain fog, depression, and libido issues in some people because it messes with estrogen receptors in the brain.

Some guys have success using SERMS to keep gyno off on tren, others dont. It depends on how sensitive you are.

If you are prone to tren gyno, you can try it. If you arent, i wouldnt worry about it. Just know that raloxifene can almost always reverse tren gyno after the cycle is completed.

Nolvadex does NOT increase prolactin and prolactin does not cause tren gyno. Ive seen too much blood work to go with that myth.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> say I've got 20 caps of 200mg DNP left and I've been taking 400mg a day and tolerating it very well, yes I sweat constantly in a building that has the heating on but since I'm at home and keep the heating off, or working right near an open door most of the time I'm fine
> 
> would it be more effective for fat burning to use my remaining caps like this:
> 
> 400mg for 10 days
> 
> or 600mg for 6 1/ 2 days?


 The 10 days will be more effective for two reasons

1. Diminishing returns of higher doses with increase in side and fatigue/malaise and 2. the longer time spent with elevated metabolism burning running 400 mg.

10 days is better than 6 days even with a lower dose.


----------



## Damo1980

ElChapo said:


> The thing with Niacin is that it lowers your insulin sensitivity by as much as it increases your HDL (15-20%), personally not worth it unless you stacked with metformin/januvia/berberine.
> 
> You can split the dose or take it at once, though studies with daily dosing used "extended release" formulations. I wouldn't worry about "Extended release" just take the whole dose at night if you're going to take it.


 how much berberine would you recommend to take? I'm going to take Niacin to help get on top of my cholesterol and re-test in 4 weeks as its not good. i'm on 300mg Tren and 250mg test. if the test results are still bad in 4 weeks i'm going to drop the tren while i get it under control

Results

View attachment Chol.tiff


----------



## Pancake'

Could you pin 100mg Test prop with a slin pin 3x a week? M/W/F


----------



## ElChapo

Damo1980 said:


> how much berberine would you recommend to take? I'm going to take Niacin to help get on top of my cholesterol and re-test in 4 weeks as its not good. i'm on 300mg Tren and 250mg test. if the test results are still bad in 4 weeks i'm going to drop the tren while i get it under control
> 
> Results
> 
> View attachment 153945


 Those supplements won't do much different if you are taking trenbolone. You're best bet is to throw daily cardio. Light intensity 20-30 minutets. This will help protect your vascular system.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Could you pin 100mg Test prop with a slin pin 3x a week? M/W/F


 Yeah, this is actually what i do. You will see zero difference from EOD schedule and the convenience is great.

If you want to be meticulous, you can inject late night friday and early morning Monday to limit the gap on the weekend, but i don't bother with that.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, this is actually what i do. You will see zero difference from EOD schedule and the convenience is great.
> 
> If you want to be meticulous, you can inject late night friday and early morning Monday to limit the gap on the weekend, but i don't bother with that.


 Would you be able to do that for tren a?


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Would you be able to do that for tren a?


 Yeah


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, this is actually what i do. You will see zero difference from EOD schedule and the convenience is great.
> 
> If you want to be meticulous, you can inject late night friday and early morning Monday to limit the gap on the weekend, but i don't bother with that.


 What do you cruise/bodybuild TRT on? 50mg EOD?

What sites are optimal with slin?

Actually toying with doing this first cycle, IIRC you mentioned, that's what you would of done differently yourself and imagined that's what testosterone would be like?

Could prop over cyp/enth benefit at all from a 'gainz' well-being perspective or not so much at all?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you cruise/bodybuild TRT on? 50mg EOD?
> 
> What sites are optimal with slin?
> 
> Actually toying with doing this first cycle, IIRC you mentioned, that's what you would of done differently yourself and imagined that's what testosterone would be like?
> 
> Could prop over cyp/enth benefit at all from a 'gainz' well-being perspective or not so much at all?


 I like 200 mg test propionate, maintains almost all the strength from blast. I stay full and dry and feel great. I do 60-70 mg M,W,F.

Lower abs are good, easiest to pin and there is always a bit of fat there even when you are pretty lean.

I would do 300-600 mg test prop as a first cycle, maybe throw in winstrol 50 mg daily. Results would be very very good with solid training and diet. Pinning M,W,F with a slin pin is nothing.

A lot of people do feel better on test prop including myself, i feel a lot more energy from it, i look better and i get no bloat at all.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> I like 200 mg test propionate, maintains almost all the strength from blast. I stay full and dry and feel great. I do 60-70 mg M,W,F.
> 
> Lower abs are good, easiest to pin and there is always a bit of fat there even when you are pretty lean.
> 
> I would do 300-600 mg test prop as a first cycle, maybe throw in winstrol 50 mg daily. Results would be very very good with solid training and diet. Pinning M,W,F with a slin pin is nothing.
> 
> A lot of people do feel better on test prop including myself, i feel a lot more energy from it, i look better and i get no bloat at all.


 Do you shoot your prop subq?

Thanks


----------



## arbffgadm100

Also, does creatine do anything measurable or worthwhile if one is already using steroids? Or is it a waste of money?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Do you shoot your prop subq?
> 
> Thanks


 No, SQ increases risk of PIP for many including myself. Injection site gets puffy, itchy and inflamed.

Most of the superficial nerves are in the SQ layer.

I use 29 gauge 5/8th 1cc slin pin in upper quads and ventro glute straight into the muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Also, does creatine do anything measurable or worthwhile if one is already using steroids? Or is it a waste of money?
> 
> Thanks


 Data shows it can increase muscle satellite cells by 30% which is pretty significant.

I would run it on a bulk or strength cycle just because it's so cheap and can increase performance and recovery if you respond well to it.

It bloats my face up pretty bad so i don't run it myself and i don't see much benefit, but its a compound worth considering if you want to squeeze out every last bit of advantage.


----------



## stewedw

Not drug related like more of the posts but hoping you can help.

Just returned from the physio after suffering left shoulder pain for several months. When she ran down my spine she noted that there's usually some "play" when the y press the spin, some "spring".... mine was solid. She had to do the excercise four times which got a few clicks before there was any give or play. When moving onto traps and rhomboids she noted how tight they were and struggled to use acupuncture at first to loosen knots etc. She also noted left side across joint has scar tissue and shoulders are rounded placing pressure on the joint where I've had pain.

Essentially the first five or six years I trained I've prioritised chest more than posterior work, got rounded shoulders and when I stand up straight my shoulder blades wing right out.

The good news is that she doesn't think it's the bankart lesion I was advise it could be (so no mri or surgery required) and that rehab and excercise will help.

Should I therefore spend more time on traps, upper back and shoulders and just go through the motions with chest to address the imbalance and protect this from happening again, or is it more complex than that?

Glad to be told it can be healed and and strengthened and will wait on her sending me a lost of dos and don't, but figured with the knowledge on this thread it was worth asking here also. Cheers.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> No, SQ increases risk of PIP for many including myself. Injection site gets puffy, itchy and inflamed.
> 
> Most of the superficial nerves are in the SQ layer.
> 
> I use 29 gauge 5/8th 1cc slin pin in upper quads and ventro glute straight into the muscle.


 My bad.. I read above where you said lower and are good as there's always a bit of fat there and made an assumption. I too have converted to insulin pins on your recommendation 3x per week and love it. I go delts as it's super easy and I never feel a thing.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Data shows it can increase muscle satellite cells by 30% which is pretty significant.
> 
> I would run it on a bulk or strength cycle just because it's so cheap and can increase performance and recovery if you respond well to it.
> 
> It bloats my face up pretty bad so i don't run it myself and i don't see much benefit, but its a compound worth considering if you want to squeeze out every last bit of advantage.


 Gracias. Was wondering about for the cut really to preserve strength but I see wgat you're saying.

A lot of the research suggests was little as 2g a day is plenty. Do you agree, or is there any benefit in going higher?

Thank you again


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo do you have any theories why having a different ester on a steroid can appear to give different results to people? for example your view on test prop and the general perception that tren a and npp have extra benefits compared to their long ester, seems odd seeing as they are the same steroid.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Gracias. Was wondering about for the cut really to preserve strength but I see wgat you're saying.
> 
> A lot of the research suggests was little as 2g a day is plenty. Do you agree, or is there any benefit in going higher?
> 
> Thank you again


 Never had issues maintaining strength on a cut without creatine, but i guess it could help if you are having issues. Usually you would need to up carbs or protein or calories and/or cut down on volume if strength is going down to quickly on a deficit.

2 grams is usually enough for most people, they just say 5 g cause it's cheap and does the trick. Your requirement will depend on how much lean body mass you carry, how much red meat you consume and other factors. That's why they just say 5 g because it's a "one size/fits all" dosage for creatine.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> My bad.. I read above where you said lower and are good as there's always a bit of fat there and made an assumption. I too have converted to insulin pins on your recommendation 3x per week and love it. I go delts as it's super easy and I never feel a thing.


 Likewise, slin pins make HRT and cruising a lot more pleasant. It's also a good way for female bodybuilders and athletes to transition to injectables.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Not drug related like more of the posts but hoping you can help.
> 
> Just returned from the physio after suffering left shoulder pain for several months. When she ran down my spine she noted that there's usually some "play" when the y press the spin, some "spring".... mine was solid. She had to do the excercise four times which got a few clicks before there was any give or play. When moving onto traps and rhomboids she noted how tight they were and struggled to use acupuncture at first to loosen knots etc. She also noted left side across joint has scar tissue and shoulders are rounded placing pressure on the joint where I've had pain.
> 
> Essentially the first five or six years I trained I've prioritised chest more than posterior work, got rounded shoulders and when I stand up straight my shoulder blades wing right out.
> 
> The good news is that she doesn't think it's the bankart lesion I was advise it could be (so no mri or surgery required) and that rehab and excercise will help.
> 
> Should I therefore spend more time on traps, upper back and shoulders and just go through the motions with chest to address the imbalance and protect this from happening again, or is it more complex than that?
> 
> Glad to be told it can be healed and and strengthened and will wait on her sending me a lost of dos and don't, but figured with the knowledge on this thread it was worth asking here also. Cheers.


 *I will always recommend that face pulls be incorporated into anyone's exercise routine.* It keeps the anterior and posterior pressing and pulling muscles balanced.

I will tell you my experience, before i added face pulls, i would always run into issues with shoulder impingement from bench pressing and would always have to take breaks from pressing. After adding face pulls, i have NEVER gotten any issues with shoulder impingement. Like you said, too much pressing makes the posture round forward and this can lead to muscle and joint imbalances that cause pain and discomfort in the future.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo do you have any theories why having a different ester on a steroid can appear to give different results to people? for example your view on test prop and the general perception that tren a and npp have extra benefits compared to their long ester, seems odd seeing as they are the same steroid.


 It's a mystery to me honestly, likely something to do with pharmacokinetics like the half-life, peak levels and serum levels overtime. We will probably never know, this is where broscience tends to shine, all we can do is go by our personal observations and experiences.

The higher and faster serum spikes might cause some increase in potency with the shorter esters, but i have no theory on why long-esters can cause more bloat. There may be some mechanism affecting the renin-angiotensin or aldosterone system due to the higher sustained levels with longer esters. Beats me though


----------



## UK2USA

What are your thoughts about running both Anavar and Winstrol on a cut, with Test at say 200mgs a week?

I know at least one ugl that makes a combo pill of both compounds, but is there any real benefit? Is the any synergistic effect to using both compounds? Any downside?


----------



## Abc987

UK2USA said:


> What are your thoughts about running both Anavar and Winstrol on a cut, with Test at say 200mgs a week?
> 
> I know at least one ugl that makes a combo pill of both compounds, but is there any real benefit? Is the any synergistic effect to using both compounds? Any downside?


 @Chelsea has used np stanavar on a couple of occasions from memory and rates the combo very high

ive run both separately and loved both but stuck with winni as it's a lot cheaper and don't get the sides like dry joints people complain about

I am thinking of running both together too in the future. Although next cycle will just be oil as it's summer and boozing season so gonna give the orals a rest


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> Never had issues maintaining strength on a cut without creatine, but i guess it could help if you are having issues. Usually you would need to up carbs or protein or calories and/or cut down on volume if strength is going down to quickly on a deficit.


 Hey ElChapo,

If you remember I mentioned I was starting a cutting cycle after two months off lifting/drugs because of a shoulder injury.

I'm not having an issue maintaining strength on my cut, in fact I'm gaining at a silly fast rate most likely due to muscle memory. All is going well but wanted to get your opinion. It's been four weeks and I've only lost 2kg, now granted this doesn't surprise me because I'm probably gaining muscle as well.

However I'm cutting on pretty low calories, I'm going into my fifth week this week and I'm currently on about 1900-2k calories with one refeed per week at roughly 3.2k cals (500c/200p/30-40f). Macros during the week are 270p/90c/50f however only 50g of that is from direct carb sources which is simply two banana's pre workout. The diet is starting to get to me and I'm feeling very tired majority of the time, which would be okay if I was lean but I still am no where near 'lean'. I though such a low calorie amount would see much faster fat loss? also I fear I'm starting to stall now already!

What would you suggest? Less regular refeeds? more carbs and less protein/fat during the week? MORE fat during refeeds?

PS - one thing I have noticed is that after the refeed my weight doesn't even increase but I do feel a tad better the day after. However two days after I feel like s**t again and the weight doesn't continue to drop off.


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> What are your thoughts about running both Anavar and Winstrol on a cut, with Test at say 200mgs a week?
> 
> I know at least one ugl that makes a combo pill of both compounds, but is there any real benefit? Is the any synergistic effect to using both compounds? Any downside?


 There's no real downside, it would be like running test/tren/npp instead of just test/tren. You might get something out of it, i would just run test/winstrol myself though.


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Hey ElChapo,
> 
> If you remember I mentioned I was starting a cutting cycle after two months off lifting/drugs because of a shoulder injury.
> 
> I'm not having an issue maintaining strength on my cut, in fact I'm gaining at a silly fast rate most likely due to muscle memory. All is going well but wanted to get your opinion. It's been four weeks and I've only lost 2kg, now granted this doesn't surprise me because I'm probably gaining muscle as well.
> 
> However I'm cutting on pretty low calories, I'm going into my fifth week this week and I'm currently on about 1900-2k calories with one refeed per week at roughly 3.2k cals (500c/200p/30-40f). Macros during the week are 270p/90c/50f however only 50g of that is from direct carb sources which is simply two banana's pre workout. The diet is starting to get to me and I'm feeling very tired majority of the time, which would be okay if I was lean but I still am no where near 'lean'. I though such a low calorie amount would see much faster fat loss? also I fear I'm starting to stall now already!
> 
> What would you suggest? Less regular refeeds? more carbs and less protein/fat during the week? MORE fat during refeeds?
> 
> PS - one thing I have noticed is that after the refeed my weight doesn't even increase but I do feel a tad better the day after. However two days after I feel like s**t again and the weight doesn't continue to drop off.


 The diet is bothering you for two reasons:

1. Low carbs. This means low leptin which means more hunger/cravings, slower metabolism, impaired mood and energy. It also means less glycogen which translates to less performance. Your protein intake is excessive, *you need more carbs. *

You only need at MOST 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass. That's your body fat percentage in weight subtracted from your total weight.

The diet needs to be sustainable, you gotta be able to not hate your life and lift well. *For that you need enough carbs to keep leptin and glycogen high*.

Refeeds can actually help you lose weight by increasing leptin, leptin is the hormone that controls metabolism and it goes down when calories and carbs are reduced.

Your #1 problem is too much protein, too little carbs.

If you are gaining muscle due to muscle memory, the muscle will be replacing fat and the scale wont move as quickly, but if you truly stall (2 weeks without weightloss) lower calories by 200.

You should be losing about 1 lbs of body fat per week, roughly.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Giving blood every 3 weeks if I have high RBC/HTC from AAS use , is good ?

The thing is that my iron levels were high , and now they are normal but my HTC is still at 54.

Isn't giving too much will make me iron deficiency ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Giving blood every 3 weeks if I have high RBC/HTC from AAS use , is good ?
> 
> The thing is that my iron levels were high , and now they are normal but my HTC is still at 54.
> 
> Isn't giving too much will make me iron deficiency ?


 That's too often, at minimum 6-8 weeks.

Yes, you can lose iron when donating blood. Just take iron tablets when you know you will be donating.


----------



## spardaa

Cheers mate will change macro's and see how I feel/if results change!!



ElChapo said:


> Your #1 problem is too much protein, too little carbs.


 Cheers mate Ill adjust macros for same no cals? so if at 2k I can simply do 200p/200c/45f.

Will see if it changes weight loss and mood. (gaining strength which is good but my priority would be fat loss here).

appreciate it bud


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> That's too often, at minimum 6-8 weeks.
> 
> Yes, you can lose iron when donating blood. Just take iron tablets when you know you will be donating.


 even if my RBC is high?

For exemple , i donated 2 weeks ago because my RBC were at 19 , and HTC 54.5

I can donate tomorrow , should I donate to get it lower ? I think it's still high because I m still on test and I'd like to take 200mg mast soon

Can low dose mast reduce the water retention in the face too ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo What are the best supps to take to reduce blood pressure on and off cycle?

I'm on 15/8 , off cycle 14/8 , It must be from anxiety problems too.

I already take a lot of sups like oil fish , cur cumin , small dose aspirin , vitamin C , B-complex etc.


----------



## TinTin10

@ElChapo

Hi mate, 1st off thanks again for the info you provide to this site, its invaluable.

My question is in regards to lower back pumps.

Background info: Im currently on my 1st tren run, 250mg TTM ew, been on for just over 2 weeks. I also started winstrol 2 days ago. Im currently taking 50mcg T3 and 40mcg clen too, as per my normal cutting routine.

I supplement 10mg creatine and 8mg taurine in my shakes.

I keep getting insane back pumps, to the point I have to stop non-seated exercise for 30mins-1hr.

Usually happens through DLs, which leaves me short on bent over rows, so I end up doing seated.

Tried to switch it up today and do the rows 1st. It was even worse. Im usually well hydrated, although today I was possibly dehydrated judging by urine colour immediately PWO.

Anything I can do to limit these pumps? Or is it just a case of sided off the coumpounds im running.

Thanks again.


----------



## MrBishi

TinTin10 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate, 1st off thanks again for the info you provide to this site, its invaluable.
> 
> My question is in regards to lower back pumps.
> 
> Background info: Im currently on my 1st tren run, 250mg TTM ew, been on for just over 2 weeks. I also started winstrol 2 days ago. Im currently taking 50mcg T3 and 40mcg clen too, as per my normal cutting routine.
> 
> I supplement 10mg creatine and 8mg taurine in my shakes.
> 
> I keep getting insane back pumps, to the point I have to stop non-seated exercise for 30mins-1hr.
> 
> Usually happens through DLs, which leaves me short on bent over rows, so I end up doing seated.
> 
> Tried to switch it up today and do the rows 1st. It was even worse. Im usually well hydrated, although today I was possibly dehydrated judging by urine colour immediately PWO.
> 
> Anything I can do to limit these pumps? Or is it just a case of sided off the coumpounds im running.
> 
> Thanks again.





ElChapo said:


> Yeah, heavy deadlifts are gonna lead to back pump fairly easily on most anabolics since you are directly working the lower back muscles. There isn't much you can do about it, some people say taurine works for them, i just deal with it. It does suck.


 I asked the same question a while back in the thread. In the end I just dropped the Winstrol once I finished the tub, and the back pumps pretty much disappeared. On a side note, I was taking 350mg Test & 525mg Tren.


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Cheers mate will change macro's and see how I feel/if results change!!
> 
> Cheers mate Ill adjust macros for same no cals? so if at 2k I can simply do 200p/200c/45f.
> 
> Will see if it changes weight loss and mood. (gaining strength which is good but my priority would be fat loss here).
> 
> appreciate it bud


 That's much better, i would aim for 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass and as much carbs as you can fit in, keep fat low.

What's your approximate weight and body fat percentage?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> even if my RBC is high?
> 
> For exemple , i donated 2 weeks ago because my RBC were at 19 , and HTC 54.5
> 
> I can donate tomorrow , should I donate to get it lower ? I think it's still high because I m still on test and I'd like to take 200mg mast soon
> 
> Can low dose mast reduce the water retention in the face too ?


 Mast usually won't help with facial bloat, it can polish and have some drying effect on the muscles though.

You want HCT to be below 52%, RBC under 17.

I would space out donations by atleast 4-6 weeks, it's not healthy to lose a lot of blood too quickly. Your body needs time to replace everything in there, it's not just RBC.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo What are the best supps to take to reduce blood pressure on and off cycle?
> 
> I'm on 15/8 , off cycle 14/8 , It must be from anxiety problems too.
> 
> I already take a lot of sups like oil fish , cur cumin , small dose aspirin , vitamin C , B-complex etc.


 Magnesium, cardiovascular exercise and lowering your body fat.

High dose cialis can lower it, but the doses needed will cause side effects in most people. (10-20 mg daily)

What is your bodyfat percentage? Do you do daily cardio? Do you drink alcohol/how often?

Your diastolic (bottom number ) is fine, but you don't want the systolic at or over 140 mmhg. You want it at 130 maximum.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate, 1st off thanks again for the info you provide to this site, its invaluable.
> 
> My question is in regards to lower back pumps.
> 
> Background info: Im currently on my 1st tren run, 250mg TTM ew, been on for just over 2 weeks. I also started winstrol 2 days ago. Im currently taking 50mcg T3 and 40mcg clen too, as per my normal cutting routine.
> 
> I supplement 10mg creatine and 8mg taurine in my shakes.
> 
> I keep getting insane back pumps, to the point I have to stop non-seated exercise for 30mins-1hr.
> 
> Usually happens through DLs, which leaves me short on bent over rows, so I end up doing seated.
> 
> Tried to switch it up today and do the rows 1st. It was even worse. Im usually well hydrated, although today I was possibly dehydrated judging by urine colour immediately PWO.
> 
> Anything I can do to limit these pumps? Or is it just a case of sided off the coumpounds im running.
> 
> Thanks again.


 Back pumps are actually a kind of muscle fatigue. The Extensor muscles in the back (erector spinae) fatigue and get that pumped/lactic acid feeling, then ache and cramp.

I find that T3 lowers muscle endurance and can exacerbate back pumps. Clen can also increase muscle cramping.

Is this the first time experience back pumps? You were running T3 and clen fine before with no problems? Is the winstrol also a new compound for you?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Magnesium, cardiovascular exercise and lowering your body fat.
> 
> High dose cialis can lower it, but the doses needed will cause side effects in most people. (10-20 mg daily)
> 
> What is your bodyfat percentage? Do you do daily cardio? Do you drink alcohol/how often?
> 
> Your diastolic (bottom number ) is fine, but you don't want the systolic at or over 140 mmhg. You want it at 130 maximum.


 I take all already , cialis at 5mg ED tho.

I'm at 12% bf or less and I'm trying to get a 10% atm , I do cardio 3 times a week . I don't drink alcohol at all.

Yes my BP is quite high , I take 162mg ed too for thinning blood.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I take all already , cialis at 5mg ED tho.
> 
> I'm at 12% bf or less and I'm trying to get a 10% atm , I do cardio 3 times a week . I don't drink alcohol at all.
> 
> Yes my BP is quite high , I take 162mg ed too for thinning blood.


 5 mg daily won't do anything for HTN. It's good for the vascular system though so it can help protect you from the damage. I would add magnesium citrate 400 mg to your supplement stack if you haven't already.

IMPORTANT: *I would reduce the aspirin to 81 mg, too much will increase the risk of brain bleed/stroke/hemorrhage , and you are already taking fish oil as well which reduces clotting just like aspirin, this is an important medication interaction.*

Do you have a family history of hypertension? If you can't get it under control with diet, exercise, lifestyle, i would consider a miniscule dose of propranolol.

I'm glad that you mentioned anxiety, because it suggests that the pathology of your hypertension might be overstimulation of the sympathetic nervous system (adrenaline/cortisol)

Propranolol is a beta adrenergic receptor inhibitor which means it will lower BP and also reduced anxiety by reducing adrenaline's effects on your cardiovascular system and brain. I would suggest a very small dose, you probably only need 40 mg daily/sustained release.


----------



## TinTin10

ElChapo said:


> Is this the first time experience back pumps? You were running T3 and clen fine before with no problems? Is the winstrol also a new compound for you?


 First time experiencing back pumps was my 1st cycle of 500mg pw test e. Though it was a QL issue so went to a chiro. Dropped squats from routine though so dont know if it was QL or not.

Have ran both T3 and clen before but not really training with the intensity I do now. Not had back pumps this severe whilst on trt.

I also cycled Winstrol for approx 4 weeks before coming off for a last minute holiday.

This is my 2nd cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> First time experiencing back pumps was my 1st cycle of 500mg pw test e. Though it was a QL issue so went to a chiro. Dropped squats from routine though so dont know if it was QL or not.
> 
> Have ran both T3 and clen before but not really training with the intensity I do now. Not had back pumps this severe whilst on trt.
> 
> I also cycled Winstrol for approx 4 weeks before coming off for a last minute holiday.
> 
> This is my 2nd cycle.


 I would try dropping the T3 first, it can destroy muscular endurance at 50 mg and above for some people. It makes it harder for the muscle to maintain glycogen stores, especially on a low carb diet and deficit. I've mostly just put up with it myself, but i know that T3 can't be helping.

The taurine thing doesn't really work for a lot of people.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> 5 mg daily won't do anything for HTN. It's good for the vascular system though so it can help protect you from the damage. I would add magnesium citrate 400 mg to your supplement stack if you haven't already.
> 
> IMPORTANT: *I would reduce the aspirin to 81 mg, too much will increase the risk of brain bleed/stroke/hemorrhage , and you are already taking fish oil as well which reduces clotting just like aspirin, this is an important medication interaction.*
> 
> Do you have a family history of hypertension? If you can't get it under control with diet, exercise, lifestyle, i would consider a miniscule dose of propranolol.
> 
> I'm glad that you mentioned anxiety, because it suggests that the pathology of your hypertension might be overstimulation of the sympathetic nervous system (adrenaline/cortisol)
> 
> Propranolol is a beta adrenergic receptor inhibitor which means it will lower BP and also reduced anxiety by reducing adrenaline's effects on your cardiovascular system and brain. I would suggest a very small dose, you probably only need 40 mg daily/sustained release.


 Nice , yes I already take 400mg+ of magnesium

I'll reduce the aspirin yes

Not really , but I know I had really high anxiety levels before AAS use , (cortisol levels were 4 time the normal range) , I made a lot of tests but nothing was found , I knew it was because of high level of anxiety that I have since I'm really young.

Where can I get propranolol? do I need a doctor prescription ? and will it interfere with my strength/energy during workout ?

I took 2-3 times really low dose of valium , 2.5mg , and during 2-3 days I felt like a zombie with a loss of 10+% strength during workouts.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Nice , yes I already take 400mg+ of magnesium
> 
> I'll reduce the aspirin yes
> 
> Not really , but I know I had really high anxiety levels before AAS use , (cortisol levels were 4 time the normal range) , I made a lot of tests but nothing was found , I knew it was because of high level of anxiety that I have since I'm really young.
> 
> Where can I get propranolol? do I need a doctor prescription ? and will it interfere with my strength/energy during workout ?
> 
> I took 2-3 times really low dose of valium , 2.5mg , and during 2-3 days I felt like a zombie with a loss of 10+% strength during workouts.


 Its nothing as harsh as valium. A small dose of propranolol should be free of sides unless you are sensitive.

You can get it from a doctor, just tell them you have high BP and want to try propranolol cause it works good for your dad or uncle. You only need a little bit.


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> That's much better, i would aim for 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass and as much carbs as you can fit in, keep fat low.
> 
> What's your approximate weight and body fat percentage?


 Woke up at exactly 90kg this morning and if I had to guess maybe 15%. (Hence the 200g protein goal).

Took morning pics if need proof lol


----------



## Alibab2001

arbffgadm100 said:


> My bad.. I read above where you said lower and are good as there's always a bit of fat there and made an assumption. I too have converted to insulin pins on your recommendation 3x per week and love it. I go delts as it's super easy and I never feel a thing.


 where do people get there slin pins from? I cant seem to find 29g 5/8th/16mm pins anywhere - all seem to be 25g or lower at 16mm

thanks in advance


----------



## superdrol

Alibab2001 said:


> where do people get there slin pins from? I cant seem to find 29g 5/8th/16mm pins anywhere - all seem to be 25g or lower at 16mm
> 
> thanks in advance


 Generally it's 29g that people use, takes longer to inject but the barrel being thin eases it a little


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

What would be considered as to much cardio for heart health. I've recently started running 2-3 times per week for 2.6 miles which takes me a average of 19 - 20 minutes, I plan to up it to 3 miles and try and get that time in under 25 minutes. Is this to much or fine with my current diagnosis of having a enlarged heart.

I'm planning to start my next cycle soon. Current plan was 400mg test cyp per week if I was to drop the cyp to 300mg what would the lowest effective dose of npp be


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Woke up at exactly 90kg this morning and if I had to guess maybe 15%. (Hence the 200g protein goal).
> 
> Took morning pics if need proof lol


 So you only need around 170 grams


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> So you only need around 170 grams


 I've lowered it down to 200g as of yesterday.

170g would be a head fuk :/ I'm so used to eating more lol I'm constantly worried not only about muscle loss but also if I'm hindering muscle gain (if I was bulking) - especially when u see a lot of pros eating 300-400g. Obv I'm not as big so I don't required as much but I always thought 250g min 300g max.

Will stick to 200g and see how it goes (defo feel better alrdy and I'm sure performance will increase, will see how fat loss is affected too)

side question : since I'm eating so much more carbs per day (even though same amount of cals) would I not need as frequent (weekly) carb ups of say 500-600g?


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> where do people get there slin pins from? I cant seem to find 29g 5/8th/16mm pins anywhere - all seem to be 25g or lower at 16mm
> 
> thanks in advance


 I the lowest i would go is 27 gauge unless you are using syringes that hold more than 1 mL.

Are you in UK or US? Online is where i get mine, but i dont know the laws about buying syringes online in UK.

www.otcwholesale.com

www.gpzmedlab.com


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> I've lowered it down to 200g as of yesterday.
> 
> 170g would be a head fuk :/ I'm so used to eating more lol I'm constantly worried not only about muscle loss but also if I'm hindering muscle gain (if I was bulking) - especially when u see a lot of pros eating 300-400g. Obv I'm not as big so I don't required as much but I always thought 250g min 300g max.
> 
> Will stick to 200g and see how it goes (defo feel better alrdy and I'm sure performance will increase, will see how fat loss is affected too)
> 
> side question : since I'm eating so much more carbs per day (even though same amount of cals) would I not need as frequent (weekly) carb ups of say 500-600g?


 Pros eat that much because that a massive amount of muscle. Extra protein won't help you perserve muscle.

If you are taking AAS this is even less likely to happen . Having muscles filled with glycogen has a muscle sparing effect.

Your refeeds are excessive, 300-400 carbs is enough. You can keep them in but this is the other reason you arent losing weight.

When you refeed, eat at maintenance, 300-400 grams of carbs, keep fat low.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> Generally it's 29g that people use, takes longer to inject but the barrel being thin eases it a little


 For maximum comfort ; 29-31 gauge

For faster injection speed: 27 gauge

High volume : 25 gauge w/ 3 cc barrel


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What would be considered as to much cardio for heart health. I've recently started running 2-3 times per week for 2.6 miles which takes me a average of 19 - 20 minutes, I plan to up it to 3 miles and try and get that time in under 25 minutes. Is this to much or fine with my current diagnosis of having a enlarged heart.
> 
> I'm planning to start my next cycle soon. Current plan was 400mg test cyp per week if I was to drop the cyp to 300mg what would the lowest effective dose of npp be


 That's not too much, just listen to your body. If it starts negatively affecting your workouts or sleep then cut back. The cardio will keep your heart muscles functioning well and the walls elastic and stretchy.

The pathological (bad) kind of heart enlargement leads to weakened/scarred muscle even though the heart is bigger, and the ventricles are stiff and do not stretch enough to fill with blood properly. You want a heart that stays stretchy and supple with strong efficient contractions, cardio helps preserve these attributes in aging hearts.

300/300 mg Cyp+NPP is a solid cycle. I would do test P instead of Cyp in your shoes though. I find it more effective for strength, aesthetic, and well-being.


----------



## Mayzini

ElChapo said:


> I would try dropping the T3 first, it can destroy muscular endurance at 50 mg and above for some people. It makes it harder for the muscle to maintain glycogen stores, especially on a low carb diet and deficit. I've mostly just put up with it myself, but i know that T3 can't be helping.
> 
> The taurine thing doesn't really work for a lot of people.





TinTin10 said:


> First time experiencing back pumps was my 1st cycle of 500mg pw test e. Though it was a QL issue so went to a chiro. Dropped squats from routine though so dont know if it was QL or not.
> 
> Have ran both T3 and clen before but not really training with the intensity I do now. Not had back pumps this severe whilst on trt.
> 
> I also cycled Winstrol for approx 4 weeks before coming off for a last minute holiday.
> 
> This is my 2nd cycle.


 hi sorry to jump in but I had the same problem when I ramped up T3 to 75mg, dropped it down and it is now manageable and no bad enough to cause issues with training. Taurine had no effect on mine.


----------



## ElChapo

Mayzini said:


> hi sorry to jump in but I had the same problem when I ramped up T3 to 75mg, dropped it down and it is now manageable and no bad enough to cause issues with training. Taurine had no effect on mine.


 Yeah, most people don't know that back pumps is a muscle endurance problem. Glad you added your experience here. I think dropping the T3 or lowering the dose will help him.

@TinTin10


----------



## Alibab2001

ElChapo said:


> I the lowest i would go is 27 gauge unless you are using syringes that hold more than 1 mL.
> 
> Are you in UK or US? Online is where i get mine, but i dont know the laws about buying syringes online in UK.
> 
> www.otcwholesale.com
> 
> www.gpzmedlab.com


 Uk - can purchase online no problems - I was just having difficulty finding the needle length in the right gauge.

Ive found 30g 5/8ths, so will try them

thanks again


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> That's not too much, just listen to your body. If it starts negatively affecting your workouts or sleep then cut back. The cardio will keep your heart muscles functioning well and the walls elastic and stretchy.
> 
> The pathological (bad) kind of heart enlargement leads to weakened/scarred muscle even though the heart is bigger, and the ventricles are stiff and do not stretch enough to fill with blood properly. You want a heart that stays stretchy and supple with strong efficient contractions, cardio helps preserve these attributes in aging hearts.
> 
> 300/300 mg Cyp+NPP is a solid cycle. I would do test P instead of Cyp in your shoes though. I find it more effective for strength, aesthetic, and well-being.


 Besides the niggles I get from small injuries I feel like I could run a lot further in terms of fitness.

What would recovery be like from the npp I had problems in the past with nadrolone that's why I never used it again. My goal for the cycle is to cut down some weight/bodyfat whilst staying as full and strong as possible


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Besides the niggles I get from small injuries I feel like I could run a lot further in terms of fitness.
> 
> What would recovery be like from the npp I had problems in the past with nadrolone that's why I never used it again. My goal for the cycle is to cut down some weight/bodyfat whilst staying as full and strong as possible


 It's as bad as deca

No reason to push your body to hard, what you are doing is plenty for the maximum benefits of cardiovascular endurance. There IS a threshold where extra cardio is detrimental or starts to lose its positive effects on health. Since you are looking for cardiovascular benefits and not training for sports conditioning, i would keep it as is.


----------



## TinTin10

Thanks @Mayzini @ElChapo

il drop T3 and see if that makes it easier


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> It's as bad as deca
> 
> No reason to push your body to hard, what you are doing is plenty for the maximum benefits of cardiovascular endurance. There IS a threshold where extra cardio is detrimental or starts to lose its positive effects on health. Since you are looking for cardiovascular benefits and not training for sports conditioning, i would keep it as is.


 Would a dose as low as 200-300mg per week be much of a problem with recovery. I know it's person dependent but a lot of people I see run 600mg +

Is it as much of an issue on lipids as it's made out to be on most descriptions


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> There's no real downside, it would be like running test/tren/npp instead of just test/tren. You might get something out of it, i would just run test/winstrol myself though.


 What do you consider the best cutting cycle? Which compounds, and why? I will begin a cut in about 4 weeks time and was planning on Test at 250mgs per week with Winny at 50mgs per day, would you add anything else? I'm a bit sensitive to stims (bp) but was also thing about low dose clen (20mgs).

Thanks.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I am understood that the reason aromatase inhibitors cause decreased HDL is due to the fact that estrogen is required for a healthy liver therefore by ridding it, HDL suffers. Letrozole being the most potent at reducing estrogen therefore causing biggest reduction in HDL. Surely if we bring estrogen into a healthy, natural range for a male using arimidex or aromasin then will there be no impact on liver values or do AI's have another mechanism of reducing HDL?

Also, what is the minimum gauge needle you can use for water-based injectable oral steroids? E.g. dbol, anadrol, winstrol, m-tren, superdrol etc.

and if this is suspended in oil, (as I have seen winstrol suspended in oil) is a larger/smaller gauge required?

Thanks a lot.


----------



## Pancake'

Does hgh accentuate that 3D bodybuilder appearance, it's often spoken in the light of for those remaining lean, but will it make your muscle appear more denser in conjunction with the like of sought after hardening AAS?

Is hgh+slin a necessity if pushing to be true 6-8% range and say 200lbs and merely just above.


----------



## swole troll

How to prevent / best tackle appetite loss on orals?

I've heard of the following methods

+ take in split doses

+ take nac and tudca

+ drink plenty of water

+ take orals with food

anything I'm missing? I love the rapid strength and size gain but at this point am close to not touching the likes of drol and dbol again because I just can't get food in on them


----------



## Pancake'

swole troll said:


> anything I'm missing?


 Have you tried taking them before bed? I know Bostin takes this approach. Seems to think it prevents it to a degree.


----------



## swole troll

Pancake' said:


> Have you tried taking them before bed? I know Bostin takes this approach. Seems to think it prevents it to a degree.


 problem is i have round the clock lethargy and appetite suppression even when i just take one dose in the morning so not sure how the PM dosing would make a great deal of a difference if it is truly 16hrs+ that my appetite is nil


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Would a dose as low as 200-300mg per week be much of a problem with recovery. I know it's person dependent but a lot of people I see run 600mg +
> 
> Is it as much of an issue on lipids as it's made out to be on most descriptions


 Lipids are always gonna take a hit on cycle, keep up your cardio and throw in 5 mg cialis, this will protect your vascular system.

Make sure you run HCG if you care about recovery and/or fertility. 1,000 IU per week. 19nor like tren/deca and trestolone are the most potent at shutting down endogenous androgen production. This is a risk you take when running AAS, especially the ones i mentioned here. Less mg is less suppressive but suppressive nonetheless. HCG will increase your chances of recovery. What are your natural testosterone levels right now?


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> What do you consider the best cutting cycle? Which compounds, and why? I will begin a cut in about 4 weeks time and was planning on Test at 250mgs per week with Winny at 50mgs per day, would you add anything else? I'm a bit sensitive to stims (bp) but was also thing about low dose clen (20mgs).
> 
> Thanks.


 I recommend test prop no matter in place of any testosterone, but especially on a cut, it keeps you dry and full.

Winstrol and/or trenbolone are great hardeners which dry you out and increase/preserve strength extremely well.

That cycle is already pretty good, i would do 300 mg test prop myself with the 50 mg winstrol. Enanthate/Cyp make me look fatter than i am due to water retention and muscle seperation suffers, when i'm very lean it doesn't show as much. Some guys don't have this issue though.

You don't need stims or fat burners but for those who are sensitive to stimulants, i recommend keeping the doses low or running low dose DNP instead. I don't use fat burners anymore, but i stay fairly lean year round so cutting doesn't take a lot of time or effort. Just aim for a 25% daily deficit, throw in some light cardio or walking x 3 per week or daily. If fat loss stalls for 2 weeks, lower calories by 200.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I am understood that the reason aromatase inhibitors cause decreased HDL is due to the fact that estrogen is required for a healthy liver therefore by ridding it, HDL suffers. Letrozole being the most potent at reducing estrogen therefore causing biggest reduction in HDL. Surely if we bring estrogen into a healthy, natural range for a male using arimidex or aromasin then will there be no impact on liver values or do AI's have another mechanism of reducing HDL?
> 
> Also, what is the minimum gauge needle you can use for water-based injectable oral steroids? E.g. dbol, anadrol, winstrol, m-tren, superdrol etc.
> 
> and if this is suspended in oil, (as I have seen winstrol suspended in oil) is a larger/smaller gauge required?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


 If E2 is in range, HDL shouldn't take a hit, just remember that when the AI peaks, E2 might be lower than when you test with labwork.

25 gauge will do the job for the cloudy water based winstrol. You can try 27 gauge but it might start to clog. I would always go for oil based winstrol and other injectable orals, water based injectables increase the risk of pip, infection, and doesn't hold the powder in solution as well.

The oil based solutions are completely homogeneous and there should be no graininess or texture in the oil. These will go trough small needles just like any other AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Does hgh accentuate that 3D bodybuilder appearance, it's often spoken in the light of for those remaining lean, but will it make your muscle appear more denser in conjunction with the like of sought after hardening AAS?
> 
> Is hgh+slin a necessity if pushing to be true 6-8% range and say 200lbs and merely just above.


 The "secret" to looking 3D is having a lot of muscle mass and being very lean without being depleted or flat. HGH will help you get bigger muscles with proper diet, training, and AAS.

You don't need it that kind of development, but someone with suboptimal genetics might have to take slin+GH to get there. It's been proven that some people have a suboptimal response to resistance training. We have guys with epic genetics and others who have a hard time packing on muscle. The latter is USUALLY down to subpar training and diet, but rarely, some guys actually have really bad genes and have a hard time.


----------



## pma111

Have you any general recommendations on supplements to assist with

Liver support

High blood pressure

Lipid profile/triglycerides/cholesterol levels

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> How to prevent / best tackle appetite loss on orals?
> 
> I've heard of the following methods
> 
> + take in split doses
> 
> + take nac and tudca
> 
> + drink plenty of water
> 
> + take orals with food
> 
> anything I'm missing? I love the rapid strength and size gain but at this point am close to not touching the likes of drol and dbol again because I just can't get food in on them


 Orals with food with the meal closest to bed time; this is the best solution. You should see a difference.

My other suggestion is to stick to highly satiating/high carb foods when you get those periods of reduced appetite. My personal go-to is cereal with skim milk, i can eat bowls and bowls of my favorite cereals. I used to pound down over a box of cereal when i bulked, and i can tell you i had zero appetite due to tren and months of caloric surplus. I am partial to cocoa rice, reese's puffs, and lucky charms. Chocolate milk is great for getting calories in as well. Toast with my favorite jelly/jam. Be creative with your food choices. It can make a huge difference in your quality of life during bulk which can drag on after a while.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> problem is i have round the clock lethargy and appetite suppression even when i just take one dose in the morning so not sure how the PM dosing would make a great deal of a difference if it is truly 16hrs+ that my appetite is nil


 I get the same problem with tren, honestly, the bedtime w/ meal thing just helps with acute appetite supression from the upset stomach.

The only solution is trying to make your calories up with easy to eat foods


----------



## feelinfine

Speaking of diet, I always read that high carb, low fat is what you want to eat on cycle.

But normally I tend to eat low cab, high fat. Because carbs make me gain a lot of bodyfat when off cycle.

Does it really make a difference? I'm running test/tren atm if that makes a difference.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Lipids are always gonna take a hit on cycle, keep up your cardio and throw in 5 mg cialis, this will protect your vascular system.
> 
> Make sure you run HCG if you care about recovery and/or fertility. 1,000 IU per week. 19nor like tren/deca and trestolone are the most potent at shutting down endogenous androgen production. This is a risk you take when running AAS, especially the ones i mentioned here. Less mg is less suppressive but suppressive nonetheless. HCG will increase your chances of recovery. What are your natural testosterone levels right now?


 Last 2 times I've had them tested they have come back 11 and 13


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> I get the same problem with tren, honestly, the bedtime w/ meal thing just helps with acute appetite supression from the upset stomach.
> 
> The only solution is trying to make your calories up with easy to eat foods


 the logical thought is liver toxicity but that wouldnt explain the tren which i too get appetite suppression from

i remember reading a few years back that orals mess with the gut flora during the initial breakdown

do you think this sounds right
in which case could some healthy bacteria aid in the appetite suppression?


----------



## bornagod

Alibab2001 said:


> Uk - can purchase online no problems - I was just having difficulty finding the needle length in the right gauge.
> 
> Ive found 30g 5/8ths, so will try them
> 
> thanks again


 Where have you found these mate? Ive look medisave and medisupplies and can only find 25g 5/8


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> the logical thought is liver toxicity but that wouldnt explain the tren which i too get appetite suppression from
> 
> i remember reading a few years back that orals mess with the gut flora during the initial breakdown
> 
> do you think this sounds right
> in which case could some healthy bacteria aid in the appetite suppression?


 I have a feeling it might be linked to the way androgens affect neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin (which can affect the gut, appetite and energy levels)

The acuity of the symptoms makes me doubt the gut flora theory. A steroid is just a cholesterol based molecule with some filler powder like corn starch or lactose. It wouldnt have the ability to mess with microbes in the gut, but androgens can mess with serotonergic neurotransmission and this has been linked to effects in the gut and vice versa. The research is very young though.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo what's your view on equipoise mate? ive just ordered enough to run 750mg/wk on my next blast, alongside 600mg/wk test and 450mg/wk tren. very conflicting opinions online about eq from its total s**t dont waste your money on it to slow sustainable gains


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Speaking of diet, I always read that high carb, low fat is what you want to eat on cycle.
> 
> But normally I tend to eat low cab, high fat. Because carbs make me gain a lot of bodyfat when off cycle.
> 
> Does it really make a difference? I'm running test/tren atm if that makes a difference.


 I usually recommend high carbs because it leptin and metabolism high, mood and performance at their peak. Glycogen and muscle fullness, endurance and strength will be as high as possible with high carbs. Bodybuilders in the know do high carb, Mike O hearn recently mentioned this actually.

There is no advantage to high fat, but some guys just do better with low carb diets, probably due to genetic food preferences and metabolic difference.

Carbs are the number one macro nutrient for building muscle, its the most efficient fuel in the body. Your muscles only need a certain minimum of protein to gain muscle based on your lean body mass level. Fat is useless for muscle growth and strength.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Last 2 times I've had them tested they have come back 11 and 13


 Your levels are already shutdown, so there's no real incentive to try to recover.

Unless your low levels are due to poor lifestyle like sleep, excess drinking, high stress, poor diet, etc. In which case you might be able to natutally increase it to average levels.

You are very close to the level where most doctors would be putting you on TRT, even the conservative ones and the more progressive MDs would offer it at this point if you present with symptoms.


----------



## arbffgadm100

bornagod said:


> Where have you found these mate? Ive look medisave and medisupplies and can only find 25g 5/8


 I would like to know this too. I inject delts so dont need long needles and im very lean but id like to try ventro glutes.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> I have a feeling it might be linked to the way androgens affect neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin (which can affect the gut, appetite and energy levels)
> 
> The acuity of the symptoms makes me doubt the gut flora theory.


 found this if its of any interest to you

its probably closer to what id originally read regard gut flora, as i say was years ago though so i probably misread / interrupted what i saw

"Orals tend to cause an imbalance in production of bicarbonate,mucus and duodunum.These all play a critical role, as some are known as buffers to gastric acid,others are present to help elimiinate production and damage as well as limiting the acidics from passing down the GI track. Effecting digestion and the good/bad bac levels.

It's actually not liver/kidney related, in fact the its an interaction between the enzymes that are used to brake down food/medication and supplements in the gastro track,as well as the ph levels.
What happens is it causes a shift, and imbalance with the enzymes,virtually using them all up upon intake/and digestion/brake down. Leaving your GI with little to nothing to metabolize your food,thus slowing down the nutritional intake. This also causes an imbalance with the good/bad bacteria in the digestive track."

this was just off some forum so how accurate it is i have no idea


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo what's your view on equipoise mate? ive just ordered enough to run 750mg/wk on my next blast, alongside 600mg/wk test and 450mg/wk tren. very conflicting opinions online about eq from its total s**t dont waste your money on it to slow sustainable gains


 In my opinion, not necessary and takes too long to kick in. There are better compounds.

Some people love it, others i know get bad anxiety and mood issues from it.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> found this if its of any interest to you
> 
> its probably closer to what id originally read regard gut flora, as i say was years ago though so i probably misread / interrupted what i saw
> 
> "Orals tend to cause an imbalance in production of bicarbonate,mucus and duodunum.These all play a critical role, as some are known as buffers to gastric acid,others are present to help elimiinate production and damage as well as limiting the acidics from passing down the GI track. Effecting digestion and the good/bad bac levels.
> 
> It's actually not liver/kidney related, in fact the its an interaction between the enzymes that are used to brake down food/medication and supplements in the gastro track,as well as the ph levels.
> What happens is it causes a shift, and imbalance with the enzymes,virtually using them all up upon intake/and digestion/brake down. Leaving your GI with little to nothing to metabolize your food,thus slowing down the nutritional intake. This also causes an imbalance with the good/bad bacteria in the digestive track."
> 
> this was just off some forum so how accurate it is i have no idea


 This is fancy sounding bullshit for sure.


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> In my opinion, not necessary and takes too long to kick in. There are better compounds.
> 
> Some people love it, others i know get bad anxiety and mood issues from it.


 I could front load 3 grams of it that would make it work faster?


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on running prov on a cruise?

I'm currently on 180mg test e and 50mg prov!

Last cycle was 8 weeks on test e 400mg winni 6.5 weeks (25mg 3 weeks then bumped to 50mg). Was a cut obviously and a nice simple one that I enjoyed with minimal sides. Problem was my libido was shot to bits, no problem getting it up but just couldn't be arsed to f**k. I've just come back off a holiday and wanted to see if it was bring libido up whilst away which it has. But I don't know whether to continue using it whilst cruising or drop it and just use the test.

My bloods came back ok apart from hct which was .54. I've since donated twice and will do again in the coming weeks and have bloods done again before I blast again. Just don't want my lipids to f**ked to blast again so will drop if you think I should


----------



## drwae

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on running prov on a cruise?
> 
> I'm currently on 180mg test e and 50mg prov!
> 
> Last cycle was 8 weeks on test e 400mg winni 6.5 weeks (25mg 3 weeks then bumped to 50mg). Was a cut obviously and a nice simple one that I enjoyed with minimal sides. Problem was my libido was shot to bits, no problem getting it up but just couldn't be arsed to f**k. I've just come back off a holiday and wanted to see if it was bring libido up whilst away which it has. But I don't know whether to continue using it whilst cruising or drop it and just use the test.
> 
> My bloods came back ok apart from hct which was .54. I've since donated twice and will do again in the coming weeks and have bloods done again before I blast again. Just don't want my lipids to f**ked to blast again so will drop if you think I should


 are you wanking too much i find if ive had a wank or two i need some encouragement to f**k


----------



## Abc987

drwae said:


> are you wanking too much i find if ive had a wank or two i need some encouragement to f**k


 Nope couldn't be bothered with any of it!

I'm ok now but last cycle didn't want to shoot my load at all


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Your levels are already shutdown, so there's no real incentive to try to recover.
> 
> Unless your low levels are due to poor lifestyle like sleep, excess drinking, high stress, poor diet, etc. In which case you might be able to natutally increase it to average levels.
> 
> You are very close to the level where most doctors would be putting you on TRT, even the conservative ones and the more progressive MDs would offer it at this point if you present with symptoms.


 The 13 reading was taken over a year post cycle. Out of all the thing's you mentioned it's only sleep I have problems with. Maybe I should consider trt but all they will give is sustanon 250mg every 3 weeks or neibido every 12 weeks where I'm from


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> I usually recommend high carbs because it leptin and metabolism high, mood and performance at their peak. Glycogen and muscle fullness, endurance and strength will be as high as possible with high carbs. Bodybuilders in the know do high carb, Mike O hearn recently mentioned this actually.
> 
> There is no advantage to high fat, but some guys just do better with low carb diets, probably due to genetic food preferences and metabolic difference.
> 
> Carbs are the number one macro nutrient for building muscle, its the most efficient fuel in the body. Your muscles only need a certain minimum of protein to gain muscle based on your lean body mass level. Fat is useless for muscle growth and strength.


 Interesting. I will try a high carb, low fat approach this time around and see if there is a difference.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> I could front load 3 grams of it that would make it work faster?


 Frontload will get you to the maximum serum concentration right away, but it won't make it kick in faster because gene expression takes time.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on running prov on a cruise?
> 
> I'm currently on 180mg test e and 50mg prov!
> 
> Last cycle was 8 weeks on test e 400mg winni 6.5 weeks (25mg 3 weeks then bumped to 50mg). Was a cut obviously and a nice simple one that I enjoyed with minimal sides. Problem was my libido was shot to bits, no problem getting it up but just couldn't be arsed to f**k. I've just come back off a holiday and wanted to see if it was bring libido up whilst away which it has. But I don't know whether to continue using it whilst cruising or drop it and just use the test.
> 
> My bloods came back ok apart from hct which was .54. I've since donated twice and will do again in the coming weeks and have bloods done again before I blast again. Just don't want my lipids to f**ked to blast again so will drop if you think I should


 Should be fine if you are careful, a lot of people love it with HRT and cruises. Just keep an eye on labs and keep the cardio up to protect the vascular system. Think of it as a little DHT boost.

Keep an eye on liver values, its not 17 alkylated but still resistant to hepatic breakdown which can stress the liver.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> The 13 reading was taken over a year post cycle. Out of all the thing's you mentioned it's only sleep I have problems with. Maybe I should consider trt but all they will give is sustanon 250mg every 3 weeks or neibido every 12 weeks where I'm from


 Garbage^, those HRT protocols are terrible.

Low testosterone predisposes you to cardiovascular disease and other issues with your health. Optimal testosterone levels have a protective effect. You're already shut down.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Should be fine if you are careful, a lot of people love it with HRT and cruises. Just keep an eye on labs and keep the cardio up to protect the vascular system. Think of it as a little DHT boost.
> 
> Keep an eye on liver values, its not 17 alkylated but still resistant to hepatic breakdown which can stress the liver.


 I know it's very mild so would it be pointless running @25mg on cruise?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I know it's very mild so would it be pointless running @25mg on cruise?


 It might be enough to feel a benefit. You would have to experiment.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Garbage^, those HRT protocols are terrible.
> 
> Low testosterone predisposes you to cardiovascular disease and other issues with your health. Optimal testosterone levels have a protective effect. You're already shut down.


 100 - 125mg cyp per week for trt ?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> 100 - 125mg cyp per week for trt ?


 Everyone is different. Some people only need 75 mg, some need 200 mg. 150 mg is a good starting dose, and you can adjust by feel and blood work results.

You want total testosterone levels between 24.3-34.7 nmol/L or 700-1,000 ng/dL.

Add AI if E2 is elevated w/ symptoms and HCG if you care about fertlity and/or testicle size.


----------



## Doitagain

@ElChapo what are good reliable brands of SD you've personally enjoyed?


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> @ElChapo what are good reliable brands of SD you've personally enjoyed?


 I homebrew all my stuff. There was a US domestic lab that was pretty solid, the former owners of Paxton pharma, but they closed shop last year.


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

Just a question regarding Protein intake.

When you recommend 1g per lb do you include incidental Protein from carb and fat sources in that total?

My current offseason macros are 330p/525c/100f (on training days)

I weigh 210lb so obviously my Protein intake is too high, but the only reason I have it set as that is because I'd struggle to keep it at 210g with such a high carb intake and the protein that comes from carb sources given that I need to hit 4,320 kcal (Eg bagels etc)

What would you advise in this situation?


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just a question regarding Protein intake.
> 
> When you recommend 1g per lb do you include incidental Protein from carb and fat sources in that total?
> 
> My current offseason macros are 330p/525c/100f (on training days)
> 
> I weigh 210lb so obviously my Protein intake is too high, but the only reason I have it set as that is because I'd struggle to keep it at 210g with such a high carb intake and the protein that comes from carb sources given that I need to hit 4,320 kcal (Eg bagels etc)
> 
> What would you advise in this situation?


 I recommend 1 gram per lbs of LEAN body mass, not total weight. This is an important distinction.

You should count the protein coming from carbs and fat. Rice and pasta protein add up pretty quick in large quantities.

The "complete protein" idea is something of a myth. It's not something that will affect muscle building.

Pea protein has been proven to be as effective as whey protein.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just a question regarding Protein intake.
> 
> When you recommend 1g per lb do you include incidental Protein from carb and fat sources in that total?
> 
> My current offseason macros are 330p/525c/100f (on training days)
> 
> I weigh 210lb so obviously my Protein intake is too high, but the only reason I have it set as that is because I'd struggle to keep it at 210g with such a high carb intake and the protein that comes from carb sources given that I need to hit 4,320 kcal (Eg bagels etc)
> 
> What would you advise in this situation?


 Cut down on the animal protein and shakes.

Hit your minimum amount and the carbs and calories will do the rest.

What is your approximate body fat percentage?

You need even less protein when bulking.

Its okay to eat a lot of protein as long as its a dietary preference and carbs are high enough.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> Cut down on the animal protein and shakes.
> 
> Hit your minimum amount and the carbs and calories will do the rest.
> 
> What is your approximate body fat percentage?
> 
> You need even less protein when bulking.
> 
> Its okay to eat a lot of protein as long as its a dietary preference and carbs are high enough.


 Thanks for the reply mate, I'm currently

210lb, 5'5" and around 12% bf.

Just coming off the back of a mini cut, cals before the mini cut got up to 5000, but did a 4 week mini cut to tidy up and now I'm starting back at 4300 and working my way back up.

So if I lowered my portions of animal protein I can use the protein from bagels, oats etc toward my total?


----------



## Testdecadbol

ElChapo said:


> I recommend 1 gram per lbs of LEAN body mass, not total weight. This is an important distinction.
> 
> You should count the protein coming from carbs and fat. Rice and pasta protein add up pretty quick in large quantities.
> 
> The "complete protein" idea is something of a myth. It's not something that will affect muscle building.
> 
> Pea protein has been proven to be as effective as whey protein.


 How do you know pea protien is as effective? Are there studies on experienced weight lifters using aas showing so?


----------



## Testdecadbol

ReRaise said:


> Thanks for the reply mate, I'm currently
> 
> 210lb, 5'5" and around 12% bf.
> 
> Just coming off the back of a mini cut, cals before the mini cut got up to 5000, but did a 4 week mini cut to tidy up and now I'm starting back at 4300 and working my way back up.
> 
> So if I lowered my portions of animal protein I can use the protein from bagels, oats etc toward my total?


 Holy s**t dude. You must be a tank. Any pics? Jist asking bc we similar height and 210 at 12% must be insane


----------



## ReRaise

Testdecadbol said:


> Holy s**t dude. You must be a tank. Any pics? Jist asking bc we similar height and 210 at 12% must be insane


 The 12% is just an estimate mate based on google pics comparisons. I've always been crap at estimating bf so possibly being a bit optimistic, open to hear what bf anyone thinks this is.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> I recommend 1 gram per lbs of LEAN body mass, not total weight. This is an important distinction.
> 
> You should count the protein coming from carbs and fat. Rice and pasta protein add up pretty quick in large quantities.
> 
> The "complete protein" idea is something of a myth. It's not something that will affect muscle building.
> 
> Pea protein has been proven to be as effective as whey protein.


 Sorry mate I hadn't seen this first reply of yours when I replied.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Thanks for the reply mate, I'm currently
> 
> 210lb, 5'5" and around 12% bf.
> 
> Just coming off the back of a mini cut, cals before the mini cut got up to 5000, but did a 4 week mini cut to tidy up and now I'm starting back at 4300 and working my way back up.
> 
> So if I lowered my portions of animal protein I can use the protein from bagels, oats etc toward my total?


 Your protein minimum for bulking would be around 150 grams. As long as you are getting that much you will be building muscle if all other conditions are met (caloric surplus, rest, training stimuli)

For cutting, you would aim for 185 grams per day minimum.

Your lean body mass is around 185 lbs. So the formula is 1 gram per lbs of LBM.

Extra protein is fine as long as you are getting enough carbs in your diet, some guys really cut back their carb intake to fit unnecessary amounts of protein into their diets.

Yes, count your bagel, oats, rice etc protein. It's real, muscle building protein. Don't worry about this "complete protein" non-sense. It's been disproven.


----------



## ElChapo

Testdecadbol said:


> How do you know pea protien is as effective? Are there studies on experienced weight lifters using aas showing so?


 Good luck finding such a specific study.

You can find studies comparing pea and whey protein.

Studies on experience weight lifters taking steroids are few and far between due to ethics board of sciences. There's a good amount, but you won't find cool stuff like comparing diets in AAS users, etc. It's mostly research looking at heart damage and others health outcomes from abuse.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> The 12% is just an estimate mate based on google pics comparisons. I've always been crap at estimating bf so possibly being a bit optimistic, open to hear what bf anyone thinks this is.
> 
> View attachment 154367


 This seems closer to 15%

My favorite method besides visual estimation is the single point body caliper method. You only have to pinch one site in the lower abdomen. I'll put a link below. It's fairly accurate and simple to do.


----------



## ElChapo

Testdecadbol said:


> How do you know pea protien is as effective? Are there studies on experienced weight lifters using aas showing so?


 Vegetable protein = Whey protein

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25628520

It should matter even less in users of AAS, since AAS will further enhance nutrient uptake, protein synthesis, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> Sorry mate I hadn't seen this first reply of yours when I replied.


 That's fine, i calculated your approximate macros on the other post.


----------



## ReRaise

ElChapo said:


> That's fine, i calculated your approximate macros on the other post.


 Thanks for help, it's much appreciated. I'll check out the link for bf measurement.


----------



## Testdecadbol

ReRaise said:


> The 12% is just an estimate mate based on google pics comparisons. I've always been crap at estimating bf so possibly being a bit optimistic, open to hear what bf anyone thinks this is.
> 
> View attachment 154367


 You bludclaart beast

What were ur cals on ur last bulk? What Aas?


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> This seems closer to 15%
> 
> My favorite method besides visual estimation is the single point body caliper method. You only have to pinch one site in the lower abdomen. I'll put a link below. It's fairly accurate and simple to do.


 Mine says 6-8mm, which is about 10-12% bodyfat  I can't for one minute believe it. I think my skins screwed from when I was 17st and obese :thumb


----------



## ReRaise

Testdecadbol said:


> You bludclaart beast
> 
> What were ur cals on ur last bulk? What Aas?


 Haha! My cals in last bulk worked up from 3800 and ended up around 4-800-5000 but appetite took a nose dive big time so did a bit of a mini cut and now I'm at 4300 and will work my way back up as needed.

AAS: 450mg test e/600mg NPP

First time I've run nandrolone higher than test and really do prefer it, always gone high test but it made me look like Michelin man!


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Longevity...

What would be your list of supplements and drugs if money were no object?

Thanks.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo I just remembered I've got a salbutamol inhaler barely used in the drawer from when I went to the doctor with shortness of breath a few months ago... how would I dose this for my cut to help weight loss?


----------



## Devil

drwae said:


> @ElChapo I just remembered I've got a salbutamol inhaler barely used in the drawer from when I went to the doctor with shortness of breath a few months ago... how would I dose this for my cut to help weight loss?


 You're on DNP mate. You shouldn't need anything else at all.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Mine says 6-8mm, which is about 10-12% bodyfat  I can't for one minute believe it. I think my skins screwed from when I was 17st and obese :thumb


 If done correctly, it's accurate to 2%, up or down. You need to pinch just the right amount, most people don't pinch enough though and it comes out lower.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Longevity...
> 
> What would be your list of supplements and drugs if money were no object?
> 
> Thanks.


 Test prop 200 mg split into daily injections with GH 2 IU.

(Keep E2 between 20-30 pg/mL, HCT/HDL in range, BP at max of 125/80)

Vitamin D3 5K IU, Vitamin K2, Zinc/copper/magnesium.

Curcumin+pine bark extract optional.

Moderate intensity cardio (150 bpm) 20-30 mins/x 3-5 per week. Strength training x 2-3 per week.

Nothing fancy, good lifestyle and genetics is 90% of longetivity. We will probably see some serious advancements in anti-aging science in the coming decades but the above will cover most people and extend life to it's genetic maximum.

With gene therapy and stem cell technology, we are looking at some serious life extension.


----------



## drwae

Devil said:


> You're on DNP mate. You shouldn't need anything else at all.


 Today is my last day of DNP. I don't want to develop cataracts or peripheral neuropathy, so I don't want to run it longer than 3 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo I just remembered I've got a salbutamol inhaler barely used in the drawer from when I went to the doctor with shortness of breath a few months ago... how would I dose this for my cut to help weight loss?


 Don't use it that way, you're better off just getting a legit fat burner.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> Today is my last day of DNP. I don't want to develop cataracts or peripheral neuropathy, so I don't want to run it longer than 3 weeks


 Switch to ECY stack if you want something very strong while you come off the DNP, be careful if you are sensitive to stimulants though.


----------



## orangeandpears

@ElChapo What sort of HGH protocol would be best for improving sleep?


----------



## Testdecadbol

ReRaise said:


> Haha! My cals in last bulk worked up from 3800 and ended up around 4-800-5000 but appetite took a nose dive big time so did a bit of a mini cut and now I'm at 4300 and will work my way back up as needed.
> 
> AAS: 450mg test e/600mg NPP
> 
> First time I've run nandrolone higher than test and really do prefer it, always gone high test but it made me look like Michelin man!


 Do you check ur bp on the reg? How do u keep it in range? Im similar height, 170lb and same bf as u. my bp is borderline already.

If i want to be 200lb+ ill be very very lucky not to need meds at that point.


----------



## JakobJuice

Testdecadbol said:


> Do you check ur bp on the reg? How do u keep it in range? Im similar height, 170lb and same bf as u. my bp is borderline already.
> 
> If i want to be 200lb+ ill be very very lucky not to need meds at that point.


 hijacking your question!
@ElChapo @ghost.recon using the normal bp supplements. doing my Liis cardio 20-30min 4-5x week. doing my hiit cardio with my lady.... Still my bp is on tren (350-400) + oral just to high.
your "go to" bp med recommendation which worked for YOU? got my own plan here but would like to really hear your choice.


----------



## Abc987

JakobJuice said:


> hijacking your question!
> @ElChapo @ghost.recon using the normal bp supplements. doing my Liis cardio 20-30min 4-5x week. doing my hiit cardio with my lady.... Still my bp is on tren (350-400) + oral just to high.
> your "go to" bp med recommendation which worked for YOU? got my own plan here but would like to really hear your choice.


 Add cialis @5mg ed. It's good for more than just bp

https://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/654641-cialis-amazing-drug-all-its-benefits-off-cycle-use.html

ill be using next blast of tren


----------



## JakobJuice

Abc987 said:


> Add cialis @5mg ed. It's good for more than just bp
> 
> https://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/654641-cialis-amazing-drug-all-its-benefits-off-cycle-use.html
> 
> ill be using next blast of tren


 Already doing, it's not like I didn't do my homework + it's like my..4th tren blast.
Don't get me wrong, stuff is helping. supps are also helping a tad. even this baby aspirin shitter.

But I wanna continue b&c for a long long time since I really wanna compete 2020, therefore just wanna make sure that I stay "healthy as fu**ing possible and avoid long term damage." (least necessary dose of roids, slowly just upping my dosage from blast to blast etc.).

That's kinda the reason I'm asking for a personal reference for bp meds. Still thinking of actual adding. Debatting risk vs reward.


----------



## Abc987

JakobJuice said:


> Already doing, it's not like I didn't do my homework + it's like my..4th tren blast.
> Don't get me wrong, stuff is helping. supps are also helping a tad. even this baby aspirin shitter.
> 
> But I wanna continue b&c for a long long time since I really wanna compete 2020, therefore just wanna make sure that I stay "healthy as fu**ing possible and avoid long term damage." (least necessary dose of roids, slowly just upping my dosage from blast to blast etc.).
> 
> That's kinda the reason I'm asking for a personal reference for bp meds. Still thinking of actual adding. Debatting risk vs reward.


 What is your bp on blast then? It will always go up when taking gear

with all the supps + cardio and cialis don't think there's much else you can do


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

How do you explain the stomach bloat and the bad gas from Anavar ?

A lot of people get these sides effects from it , I did from the 1 st dose , and I used 3 differents brands. ( I aint using it , it was last year but I d like to use it one day without those side effect)

My guess is that it's really bad on the intestinal flora so it gives gas and bloat but I can be wrong


----------



## Pancake'

For athletes are their actually benefits in semen retention? Lot of hype surrounding this, I have heard the likes of Mike Tyson, David Haye both openly mention they abstained from sex for some periods of time, "women weaken legs" Tyson even claimed 5 years, which could partly explain just how he was lol. crazy.

Would 50mg winstrol still be superior to 100mg var?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo

How important is deep sleep for recovery and progress? For the past couple of months I have been waking up several (2-4) times per night but still getting a total of 6-8 hours sleep. Is broken sleep going to negatively effect progress as proper deep sleep is not attained?

Also, just a clarification on half lives and etsters, I'm sure you get this a lot so sorry if it's a repeat answer. Once a hormone is administered, (e.g Enanthate) does the ester have to be cleaved from the hormone before it becomes active or is the hormone still working with Ester attached? And is the half life referring to how long it takes the body to cleave off the ester?


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ElChapo What sort of HGH protocol would be best for improving sleep?


 I wouldnt take HGH just for sleep enhancement, 2 iu will do the job and give you natural optimal levels.

Waking up early, staying busy all day and doing cardio earlier in the day will improve sleep. Avoid stimulants and any kind of training after 7 PM.


----------



## ElChapo

JakobJuice said:


> hijacking your question!
> @ElChapo @ghost.recon using the normal bp supplements. doing my Liis cardio 20-30min 4-5x week. doing my hiit cardio with my lady.... Still my bp is on tren (350-400) + oral just to high.
> your "go to" bp med recommendation which worked for YOU? got my own plan here but would like to really hear your choice.


 How high? Elevated BP and bad lipids are acceptable on cycle, these acute short term changes should not have a significant effect on your health.

If the BP is over 150/95 on cycle, i would take a tiny dose of beta blocker to bring it closer to 130/85.

Anything between 100/60-140/90 is acceptable as long as the cycle doesnt last +6 months.

BP meds depend on the pathology (cause) of your elevated blood pressure and how you respond to them (side effects, potency)

I like beta blockers for individuals with anxiety/agitation history.

There are many different classes to choose from; beta blocker, calcium channel blocker, ACE inhibitor, diuretics, etc.

What is your BP on cycle?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How do you explain the stomach bloat and the bad gas from Anavar ?
> 
> A lot of people get these sides effects from it , I did from the 1 st dose , and I used 3 differents brands. ( I aint using it , it was last year but I d like to use it one day without those side effect)
> 
> My guess is that it's really bad on the intestinal flora so it gives gas and bloat but I can be wrong


 Maybe something about the 17-alkylation. I have no answer though.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> For athletes are their actually benefits in semen retention? Lot of hype surrounding this, I have heard the likes of Mike Tyson, David Haye both openly mention they abstained from sex for some periods of time, "women weaken legs" Tyson even claimed 5 years, which could partly explain just how he was lol. crazy.
> 
> Would 50mg winstrol still be superior to 100mg var?


 What happens is that orgasm release endorphins and serotonin which relax the body and put it in a state of relaxation.

This is not optimal for combat sports where you want to have the sympathetic nervous system engaged. You might know it as "fight or flight" mode, when the body releases adrenaline in anticipation of competition or danger. Orgasm inhibits this sympathetic nervous system response by inducing relaxation via release of serotonin and endorphins.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> For athletes are their actually benefits in semen retention? Lot of hype surrounding this, I have heard the likes of Mike Tyson, David Haye both openly mention they abstained from sex for some periods of time, "women weaken legs" Tyson even claimed 5 years, which could partly explain just how he was lol. crazy.
> 
> Would 50mg winstrol still be superior to 100mg var?


 50 mg of winstrol is better in my opinion


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How important is deep sleep for recovery and progress? For the past couple of months I have been waking up several (2-4) times per night but still getting a total of 6-8 hours sleep. Is broken sleep going to negatively effect progress as proper deep sleep is not attained?
> 
> Also, just a clarification on half lives and etsters, I'm sure you get this a lot so sorry if it's a repeat answer. Once a hormone is administered, (e.g Enanthate) does the ester have to be cleaved from the hormone before it becomes active or is the hormone still working with Ester attached? And is the half life referring to how long it takes the body to cleave off the ester?


 If you feel rested after sleeping, dont worry about how many hours in total you are getting or how interrupted the sleep is.

The amount of sleep you need is down to genetics. Some people are fine with only 5 hours of sleep.

The hormone is active once the ester is cleaved, the longer the ester, the longer it takes to be released. Once released, it will have the normal activity and half life of the base hormone.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo do you believe in non responders to certain compounds?

Move used Oxys twice now and believe one lot to be completed bunk, but twice bunk gear from different labs seems strange?

I ran both times @100mg and got nothing from them


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo do you believe in non responders to certain compounds?
> 
> Move used Oxys twice now and believe one lot to be completed bunk, but twice bunk gear from different labs seems strange?
> 
> I ran both times @100mg and got nothing from them


 Some people dont get as good results when running certain compounds.

A labmax kit is a cheap insurance to verify that the compound you bought is legit.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Some people dont get as good results when running certain compounds.
> 
> A labmax kit is a cheap insurance to verify that the compound you bought is legit.


 Think I'll just stick with winni mate.

It does everything I want with minimal sides

was just after your opinion as have seen people say before about a non responder

chees mate


----------



## pma111

Youve mentioned vitamin k-2 a few times on useful supplements. Any recommendations on dose?


----------



## John Boy 1985

@ElChapo

Just finished 12 week bulk of 500mg test e 200mg npp a week also started winny 50mg ed the last 3 weeks. The plan is now to do a minicut for 4 weeks to get me back to below 15%. Prob 18-20%at mo. Question is i want to reduce test to 300mg a week, carry om winny at 50mg a day and no npp, is this ok. I like conservative doses on cut.

I only have 4 weeks to cut and aim is to lose 5%bf. Is it worth throwing in clen and t3 stack fpr 4 weeks or is that to many orals. I take 250mg tudca daily.

Will reduce calories by 500 below maintenance and fasted cardio mon to fri. Weights is 4 days a week each body part twice a week. Weekends rest. Diet is alwys on point

Thanks brother.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Youve mentioned vitamin k-2 a few times on useful supplements. Any recommendations on dose?


 I like life extension super k because it has the perfect doses of K1, K2 MK4 and MK7.

100 mcg of MK7 is good. (found in natto, very rare in diet)

1-5 mg MK4 (found in cheeses and organ meats also pretty rare in diet)

K1 is easy to find in multivitamins and green leafy vegetables.


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just finished 12 week bulk of 500mg test e 200mg npp a week also started winny 50mg ed the last 3 weeks. The plan is now to do a minicut for 4 weeks to get me back to below 15%. Prob 18-20%at mo. Question is i want to reduce test to 300mg a week, carry om winny at 50mg a day and no npp, is this ok. I like conservative doses on cut.
> 
> I only have 4 weeks to cut and aim is to lose 5%bf. Is it worth throwing in clen and t3 stack fpr 4 weeks or is that to many orals. I take 250mg tudca daily.
> 
> Will reduce calories by 500 below maintenance and fasted cardio mon to fri. Weights is 4 days a week each body part twice a week. Weekends rest. Diet is alwys on point
> 
> Thanks brother.


 You won't be able to drop that much fat in 4 weeks without DNP even with a 30% daily deficit.

You might be able to hit 15% if you are 18% with an aggressive deficit 700 ( i don't recommend this)

Your best bet is a 25% daily deficit+200 mg DNP+EC stack+daily walk. You can probably hit 11-12% with this method. 300 mg test pw+50 mg winstrol daily is plenty


----------



## John Boy 1985

ElChapo said:


> You won't be able to drop that much fat in 4 weeks without DNP even with a 30% daily deficit.
> 
> You might be able to hit 15% if you are 18% with an aggressive deficit 700 ( i don't recommend this)
> 
> Your best bet is a 25% daily deficit+200 mg DNP+EC stack+daily walk. You can probably hit 11-12% with this method. 300 mg test pw+50 mg winstrol daily is plenty


 Thank you sir.

To scared of dnp lol, won't use it.

I will do 500 deficit. Cardo 7 days for next 4 weeks and just see where I get to.

Ec stack or clen t3. Also thinking of dropping winny as don't think it will bring much at this BF %


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

DNP cuestión...

I like quest bars when cutting as I find them to be a nice treat and quite filling.

For example if i eat two at breakfast witha strong coffee i ca go hours without hunger almost irrespective of the deficit.

However, they have 20g of carbs per bar...but 14g of that is fibre.. on DNP I know that to maximise fat loss I need to keep carbs v low, especially as I am already below 12% and I am led to understand that DNP isn't that effevtive in lean people.

What I am asking is, do I count these carbs or not (in relation to DNP)?

What would be the maximum carbs you would take in on training days for weights, for BJJ, and on rest days?

Many thanks.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo

Thanks for all the info in the thread so far, I went back and read it from the start again.

I debated asking this question because it's a little neurotic but I am genuinely interested in your response.

I am off to the states in a couple of weeks for a week in NYC. Whilst I am not on a "cheat mission" I know we will be eating mainly junk, pancakes, doughnuts, burgers etc and that's fine. Me and the mrs deserve a holiday and I'm not going to put any restrictions on where she wants to eat.

Is there anything otc that I could take to minimise the fat gain ? I have considered Defuse from Evomuse and a GDA but they are expensive and I'm not sure would justify the cost.

I have been on T3 and was going to run it until after we came back but it's not worth the risk of taking it with me. I'll have had 2 1/2 weeks off of T3 before we go so I am probably not going to be in the best position metabolically but I am running kelp and thyroid energy from now foods to help and am dieting hard until we go.

Thanks again bud


----------



## S123

@ElChapo looking to get from 15% body fat to 8% bodyfat in 12 - 16 week, my current calories are 2500 (maintenance about 3000-3200)

Current stack is :-

Test 300mg

Winstrol 50mg ed

Hgh 5iu

I saw the response to the above and I'm not really wanting to use DNP as I tend to just lose a lot of size on it and wanted to know if it would interfere with hgh?


----------



## Alibab2001

bornagod said:


> Where have you found these mate? Ive look medisave and medisupplies and can only find 25g 5/8


 apologies - when I went to order i realised I had found 29g 1/2 inch. I used last night and pin was easy (did ventro glutes) and feel nothing this morning.

thanks @ElChapo


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I know this has been covered extensuvely bit by bit un the last three AMA threads, but I'd be super interested to see your "ultimate cutting cycle".

Care to post it?

Muchisimas gracias.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo you've probably been asked this already but I'd be interested as to what supps youtake and what dosage for what benefit If that all makes sense lol

atm I take

omega 3, nac, multivitamin, coq10, d3, garlic extract but only take what says on the tub apart from nac where I take 1200mg ed

if you don't mind can you list anything to add or take away (waste of time) and what I should dose at

cheers mate!


----------



## SimpleLimit

ElChapo said:


> Very low E2 will affect your stamina and strength, a long time ago i tried the broscience letrozole 2.5 mg daily. My strength went to complete s**t and i felt like garbage. Sex drive will usually take a big hit and it can affect erections negatively. Low E2 is also bad for the vascular system and increases the rate of atherosclerosis ( plaque in arteries/hardening)
> 
> High E2 won't really affect your strength or stamina, but will increase your risk of mood swings, depression/anxiety/agitation, so called "roid rage" that some people get is usually elevated E2. Your risk of gyno also goes up, as well as stroke, heart attack and blood clots. Risk of erectile dysfunction is also much higher.
> 
> Generally, an optimal E2 level will have you feeling and performing at your best while conferring significant health benefits.


 Hey mate,

I saw you mentioning in another thread that some people might not even need AI to control their E2,

How would I know if I am one of those ? this is basically what I have gone through with my first cycle, (this is what I have been using to check my e2 levels,

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/1ix4i8
 )

First week - I used 0.5 AI, Mon/ Thursday, Monday all the way to Sunday night I woke up multiple times during the night, and had a really hard time going back to bed, think I only got like 4-6 hours of sleep those nights

So I reduced to 0.25 AI, Mon/Wed/Fri, that helped a bit, but I was still waking up at nights, but could go back to sleep,

So I went with 0.25 AI, Mon/Thur, same thing here, still woke up during the nights, but could go back to sleep, no other symptoms,

I decided to go lower, and went with around 0.2 EOD, and keep that for a week or two, then I noticed my lips were drying up, (only happens to me during the winter time), and saw that it was another symptom of low E2, so I stopped AI for a week, my sleep improved, strength improved, so I decided to go with around 0.1 - 0.2 once a week, during the first 1-3 days after taking AI my sleep is not really good, still wake up, but manage to go back to sleep, so I am not very tired during work, (not anywhere near as bad as my first week)

I am now 7 weeks into my test e cycle, and I took around 0.2 AI this Sunday, I was thinking of just stopping taking AI for a week or two, to see what happens, any ideas you recommend me trying ?


----------



## ElChapo

John Boy 1985 said:


> Thank you sir.
> 
> To scared of dnp lol, won't use it.
> 
> I will do 500 deficit. Cardo 7 days for next 4 weeks and just see where I get to.
> 
> Ec stack or clen t3. Also thinking of dropping winny as don't think it will bring much at this BF %


 Run the EC stack or clen + T3. The only way to get the rapid fat loss you are looking for is DNP. Remember, your body can only lose so much fat on a deficit before tapping into muscle tissue. This counterproductive, and by that point you will feel like s**t and most people rebound badly with drastic diets.

Winstrol would be good for muscle and strength retention, it's not a bad idea to have it in there. Just focus on keep all your lifts up, if you are losing strength, this is a good sign that you are losing muscle. A little strength loss in reps and weight is normal though.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> DNP cuestión...
> 
> I like quest bars when cutting as I find them to be a nice treat and quite filling.
> 
> For example if i eat two at breakfast witha strong coffee i ca go hours without hunger almost irrespective of the deficit.
> 
> However, they have 20g of carbs per bar...but 14g of that is fibre.. on DNP I know that to maximise fat loss I need to keep carbs v low, especially as I am already below 12% and I am led to understand that DNP isn't that effevtive in lean people.
> 
> What I am asking is, do I count these carbs or not (in relation to DNP)?
> 
> What would be the maximum carbs you would take in on training days for weights, for BJJ, and on rest days?
> 
> Many thanks.


 I hate quest bars (the flavor). You are better of eating two turkey sandwiches with honey mustard, more filling and tastes better in my opinion.

You don't need to keep carbs low, just focus on keeping a consistent caloric deficit and do daily cardio while maintaining as much strength as you can.

Counting carbs this way is a waste of energy and can make you neurotic. It's an unnecessary factor.

If you are doing BJJ, you shouldn't be cutting carbs. Low carb diets hit performance hard, as well as mood, appetite and energy levels.

Carbs should be kept high as possible on a cut with minimal protein necessary to retain muscle mass and strength. minimal fat for flavor.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thanks for all the info in the thread so far, I went back and read it from the start again.
> 
> I debated asking this question because it's a little neurotic but I am genuinely interested in your response.
> 
> I am off to the states in a couple of weeks for a week in NYC. Whilst I am not on a "cheat mission" I know we will be eating mainly junk, pancakes, doughnuts, burgers etc and that's fine. Me and the mrs deserve a holiday and I'm not going to put any restrictions on where she wants to eat.
> 
> Is there anything otc that I could take to minimise the fat gain ? I have considered Defuse from Evomuse and a GDA but they are expensive and I'm not sure would justify the cost.
> 
> I have been on T3 and was going to run it until after we came back but it's not worth the risk of taking it with me. I'll have had 2 1/2 weeks off of T3 before we go so I am probably not going to be in the best position metabolically but I am running kelp and thyroid energy from now foods to help and am dieting hard until we go.
> 
> Thanks again bud


 Good question

Skip breakfast, you can eat a bigger/higher calorie lunch and dinner this way.

Eat some kind of protein with every meal. Burgers are actually great and have very favorable macro profile. The problem is when you throw in milkshakes, ice creams, soda and fries. Stay away from soda, juice, and beer. If you want alcohol, your best bet is wine and liquor. I would definitely indulge in doughnuts and other pastries, but don't gorge on them. Have a legit normal serving size ie: one-two doughnuts, slice of cake, etc. You will be able to enjoy your vacation and food and might not even gain any fat, depending on how well you follow it.

Don't bother with that OTC bullshit, just be smart with your choices. Eat desserts and pastries after some protein and just eat in moderation. You can also do some light jogs in the morning which are great for your health anyways to help buffer the increase in calories , this alone beats the OTC garbage by a long shot and it's free.

Just pop your T3 tabs into a vitamin bottle, they won't check it and if they do, they will think it's vitamins. T3 and other script medications aren't a big deal. It's only steroids and narcotics they care about. Americans order indian pharmacy meds that go through customs all the time, they are practically always let through. It's something of a legal grey area.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo looking to get from 15% body fat to 8% bodyfat in 12 - 16 week, my current calories are 2500 (maintenance about 3000-3200)
> 
> Current stack is :-
> 
> Test 300mg
> 
> Winstrol 50mg ed
> 
> Hgh 5iu
> 
> I saw the response to the above and I'm not really wanting to use DNP as I tend to just lose a lot of size on it and wanted to know if it would interfere with hgh?


 You should get there in about 14 weeks if you have your calories in check and are 15%.

If you stall for 2 weeks, drop calories by another 200.

You don't need DNP, your goal is very reasonable and doable without fat burners. You can get very lean without DNP or anything else. Consistency is the most important thing, as well as preserving muscle.

You can drop GH to 3 IU.


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> apologies - when I went to order i realised I had found 29g 1/2 inch. I used last night and pin was easy (did ventro glutes) and feel nothing this morning.
> 
> thanks @ElChapo


 Your welcome

Exactly, i literally don't feel the needle going in or out. It's the best way to go, period.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> You should get there in about 14 weeks if you have your calories in check and are 15%.
> 
> If you stall for 2 weeks, drop calories by another 200.
> 
> You don't need DNP, your goal is very reasonable and doable without fat burners. You can get very lean without DNP or anything else. Consistency is the most important thing, as well as preserving muscle.
> 
> You can drop GH to 3 IU.


 Any reason for the drop in gh to 3iu? @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I know this has been covered extensuvely bit by bit un the last three AMA threads, but I'd be super interested to see your "ultimate cutting cycle".
> 
> Care to post it?
> 
> Muchisimas gracias.


 For most people test p @ 300 mg, tren A mg @ 300 per week and winstrol @ 50 mg daily will be enough.

For those with less muscle mass or going for a less freaky look the doses can be cut in half to 150/150/25 and the other way for bigger guys 600/600/100. It's simple, cost effective and very powerful in terms of strength retention, drying effect and performance.

It's nothing fancy, but the synergy for cutting between tren and winstrol is particularly effective, i find masteron lackluster in terms of performance enhancement and drying effect is not as powerful as winstrol. For those who are sensitive to winstrol, i would replace it with superdrol @ 20 mg daily.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> Any reason for the drop in gh to 3iu? @ElChapo


 Anymore than that won't particularly help with fat loss, higher doses are good for getting bigger. Water retention can also be an issue with GH.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo you've probably been asked this already but I'd be interested as to what supps youtake and what dosage for what benefit If that all makes sense lol
> 
> atm I take
> 
> omega 3, nac, multivitamin, coq10, d3, garlic extract but only take what says on the tub apart from nac where I take 1200mg ed
> 
> if you don't mind can you list anything to add or take away (waste of time) and what I should dose at
> 
> cheers mate!


 Those are all good ones.

I usually just cover what i'm missing from diet like Vitamin K2, Vitamin D3, magnesium/zinc/copper. The ones i highly recommend if looking for an overall health supplement is a combo of curcumin/piperine + pine bark extract. Together, they are very powerful anti-inflammatory/anti-oxidant combo with significant research supporting their benefits. They are cost effective and easy to find.

Just make sure your multivitamin doesn't use oxides or sulfate ie magnesium oxide, zinc oxide, etc. These are the poorly absorbed forms of these minerals and usually indicate a lower quality product.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> Anymore than that won't particularly help with fat loss, higher doses are good for getting bigger. Water retention can also be an issue with GH.


 Good point, thanks for the advice. I'll bump the hgh down to 3iu and add in tren in a few weeks as I really like the effects of tren (cosmetically)


----------



## ElChapo

SimpleLimit said:


> Hey mate,
> 
> I saw you mentioning in another thread that some people might not even need AI to control their E2,
> 
> How would I know if I am one of those ? this is basically what I have gone through with my first cycle, (this is what I have been using to check my e2 levels,
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/1ix4i8
> )
> 
> First week - I used 0.5 AI, Mon/ Thursday, Monday all the way to Sunday night I woke up multiple times during the night, and had a really hard time going back to bed, think I only got like 4-6 hours of sleep those nights
> 
> So I reduced to 0.25 AI, Mon/Wed/Fri, that helped a bit, but I was still waking up at nights, but could go back to sleep,
> 
> So I went with 0.25 AI, Mon/Thur, same thing here, still woke up during the nights, but could go back to sleep, no other symptoms,
> 
> I decided to go lower, and went with around 0.2 EOD, and keep that for a week or two, then I noticed my lips were drying up, (only happens to me during the winter time), and saw that it was another symptom of low E2, so I stopped AI for a week, my sleep improved, strength improved, so I decided to go with around 0.1 - 0.2 once a week, during the first 1-3 days after taking AI my sleep is not really good, still wake up, but manage to go back to sleep, so I am not very tired during work, (not anywhere near as bad as my first week)
> 
> I am now 7 weeks into my test e cycle, and I took around 0.2 AI this Sunday, I was thinking of just stopping taking AI for a week or two, to see what happens, any ideas you recommend me trying ?


 You can't go by symptoms because a lot of them overlap with each other. Getting E2 controlled can be a pain in the ass, but blood work is the best option.

What AI are you using? Arimidex? Letrozole?

I need more details such as testosterone dosage. Your symptoms are very broad and can be attributed to thousands of things not related to elevated estrogen levels.

You need to pay more attention to libido, erection strength, mood swings or moodiness, itchy nipples. These will give you a better idea. Sleep can be affect by pretty much anything.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo

Thanks for such a detailed response mate, really appreciate you taking the time :thumbup1:


----------



## SimpleLimit

ElChapo said:


> You can't go by symptoms because a lot of them overlap with each other. Getting E2 controlled can be a pain in the ass, but blood work is the best option.
> 
> What AI are you using? Arimidex? Letrozole?
> 
> I need more details such as testosterone dosage. Your symptoms are very broad and can be attributed to thousands of things not related to elevated estrogen levels.
> 
> You need to pay more attention to libido, erection strength, mood swings or moodiness, itchy nipples. These will give you a better idea. Sleep can be affect by pretty much anything.


 Using arimidex, on 450mg test e,

I think my erection strength is almost the same as before, think I remember having itchy nipples, but that was like a single day out of the 7weeks I been on test now,

Mood swings were pretty bad when I was on 0.5, but that has not happened since,

I might just order a blood kit from medicheck, just not sure which one to go with, I did buy TRT plus before starting this cycle, maybe get another one of those,


----------



## Pancake'

What's your stance on DHB? and any advice on doses, how to maximise using it, any potential synergy it works well alongside?

Also is it like EQ or Primo at all and does it convert to dht?


----------



## superdrol

So having tried tren e at 300mg and my digestion getting shot to pieces, I tried various things to get my digestion back to its former glory on the tren but nothing worked (apple cider vinegar, digestive enzymes) and I could only stomach lots of simple carbs which I did but protein took a hit

fast forward on a bit (8weeks since tren!) and I'm now on 600 test, 450 deca... last year I did the exact same and it treated me well, could eat a 1000-1200 calorie curry for dinner and just about break a sweat... now I struggle with a for one curry with 650 calories and both from the same place so similar food

any helpful hints to help get my gut back to normal? I need to be eating lots to grow and add another 5-7kg of muscle before I cut

I know I can eat cereal etc, but I wondered if taking digestive enzymes in someway effects gut flora health or even if tren may have somehow damaged something? As although my appetite has come back to some degree I am still struggling to put the food away without going to simple carbs again


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> I hate quest bars (the flavor). You are better of eating two turkey sandwiches with honey mustard, more filling and tastes better in my opinion.
> 
> You don't need to keep carbs low, just focus on keeping a consistent caloric deficit and do daily cardio while maintaining as much strength as you can.
> 
> Counting carbs this way is a waste of energy and can make you neurotic. It's an unnecessary factor.
> 
> If you are doing BJJ, you shouldn't be cutting carbs. Low carb diets hit performance hard, as well as mood, appetite and energy levels.
> 
> Carbs should be kept high as possible on a cut with minimal protein necessary to retain muscle mass and strength. minimal fat for flavor.


 First thing, thanks a million for your advice.

Second - I actually love Quest bars, as a treat that are 200 calories they function well for me. I guess what I am asking is do I count these "net carbs" BS (6g per bar/136cals) towards my daily total, *or do I just count all the carb calories (20g per bar/200cals)?*

Third - I was under the impression that being on DNP at 200-300mg (bear in mind I'm in Spain and its 30 degrees here already) could be super, super uncomfortable with high carbs. (I was also under the impression that DNP requires v little carbs to actually function but I'm guessing that's BS based on what you've just said)...

I realise (through plenty of experience) that BJJ and weightlifting need carbs. I can always throw in a small bolus pre and intra workout, *but if I am to understand correctly you are saying that it's OK and won't affect my fat loss to go high carb/low fat (albeit in a deficit) while on DNP?*

I ask because I'm really afraid of cooking myself ... it can hit 40 degrees where I train BJJ and I worry about killing myself (genuinely)...


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> For most people test p @ 300 mg, tren A mg @ 300 per week and winstrol @ 50 mg daily will be enough.
> 
> For those with less muscle mass or going for a less freaky look the doses can be cut in half to 150/150/25 and the other way for bigger guys 600/600/100. It's simple, cost effective and very powerful in terms of strength retention, drying effect and performance.
> 
> It's nothing fancy, but the synergy for cutting between tren and winstrol is particularly effective, i find masteron lackluster in terms of performance enhancement and drying effect is not as powerful as winstrol. For those who are sensitive to winstrol, i would replace it with superdrol @ 20 mg daily.


 Awesome.

I am on the lower end of those doses.

How would you work GH and DNP into that? It seems to me (with my limited knowledge) that HGH and DNP have a synergy for fat loss, would that be correct?

Thank you!!!!  xxx


----------



## SoberHans

Just had my bloods done and the only thing high was LDL.

Apart from more cardio, what else can I do to lower this?

Any supplements you recommend?

Thanks


----------



## popeye1982

@ElChapo can you shed some light on this minor problem.

Been pinning Mon,Wed,Fri. 1.6ml for each pin. Mixture of test, deca and eq. Rotating from quad's to qlutes. 1inch pin for quad's and 1 1/4 inch for qlutes. All pins have been pretty much pip free, no soreness or redness ect. For some reason my left glute always seems to bleed out a lot. I always aspirate and no sign of blood in the barrel. No pain or discomfort is ever felt. Any idea what this could be and why it happens?? Cheers Elchapo


----------



## PSevens2017

arbffgadm100 said:


> First thing, thanks a million for your advice.
> 
> Second - I actually love Quest bars, as a treat that are 200 calories they function well for me. I guess what I am asking is do I count these "net carbs" BS (6g per bar/136cals) towards my daily total, *or do I just count all the carb calories (20g per bar/200cals)?*
> 
> Third - I was under the impression that being on DNP at 200-300mg (bear in mind I'm in Spain and its 30 degrees here already) could be super, super uncomfortable with high carbs. (I was also under the impression that DNP requires v little carbs to actually function but I'm guessing that's BS based on what you've just said)...
> 
> I realise (through plenty of experience) that BJJ and weightlifting need carbs. I can always throw in a small bolus pre and intra workout, *but if I am to understand correctly you are saying that it's OK and won't affect my fat loss to go high carb/low fat (albeit in a deficit) while on DNP?*
> 
> I ask because I'm really afraid of cooking myself ... it can hit 40 degrees where I train BJJ and I worry about killing myself (genuinely)...


 Mate, I'm surprised you're introducing/you've introduced DNP while rolling. I couldn't. Plus you're in Spain you fcuking madman lol. You going for a lower weight division?


----------



## ElChapo

SimpleLimit said:


> Using arimidex, on 450mg test e,
> 
> I think my erection strength is almost the same as before, think I remember having itchy nipples, but that was like a single day out of the 7weeks I been on test now,
> 
> Mood swings were pretty bad when I was on 0.5, but that has not happened since,
> 
> I might just order a blood kit from medicheck, just not sure which one to go with, I did buy TRT plus before starting this cycle, maybe get another one of those,


 You might need more arimidex and might have high E2, blood work is your best bet. Some people need as much as 2 mg per week on the dosage you are on, we are all different.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your stance on DHB? and any advice on doses, how to maximise using it, any potential synergy it works well alongside?
> 
> Also is it like EQ or Primo at all and does it convert to dht?


 Use it in place of masteron or a DHT in a cycle. It's a good androgen with dry gains. Easy to PIP with though so tread cautiously with higher concentrations.

It is the 5-alpha reduced version of EQ, so it's the DHT for EQ. When the enzyme that turns testosterone into DHT reacts with EQ, it makes DHB instead.

It does not convert to DHT because it has already been converted, DHB is basically DHB, but boldenone instead of testosterone as the parent hormone. It would be more like primo.


----------



## ElChapo

superdrol said:


> So having tried tren e at 300mg and my digestion getting shot to pieces, I tried various things to get my digestion back to its former glory on the tren but nothing worked (apple cider vinegar, digestive enzymes) and I could only stomach lots of simple carbs which I did but protein took a hit
> 
> fast forward on a bit (8weeks since tren!) and I'm now on 600 test, 450 deca... last year I did the exact same and it treated me well, could eat a 1000-1200 calorie curry for dinner and just about break a sweat... now I struggle with a for one curry with 650 calories and both from the same place so similar food
> 
> any helpful hints to help get my gut back to normal? I need to be eating lots to grow and add another 5-7kg of muscle before I cut
> 
> I know I can eat cereal etc, but I wondered if taking digestive enzymes in someway effects gut flora health or even if tren may have somehow damaged something? As although my appetite has come back to some degree I am still struggling to put the food away without going to simple carbs again


 Part of the tren game and one of the reasons many pros keep it at 300-600 mg max even with very high dose cycles (grams of test/etc).

When appetite and digestion and sleep are impaired, the hit to performance and diet aren't worth it. 300-600 mg of trenbolone is enough to get a very nice polish/pump/dryness to the physique (at <15% BF) and will enhance muscle performance.

My best advice is to get a majority of your calories from easy to eat and digest, high carb/moderate protein foods. My favorite is breakfast cereals like reese's puffs, lucky charms, and cocoa rice. It is VERY easy to eat a whole box or more per day with some skim milk which provides a ton of carbs, decent protein, and a lot of calories even when appetite is low due to indigestion, lack of appetite from extended caloric surplus, etc. Other options are pancakes, waffles, toast with jelly/nutella/cocoa spread. Be creative and pick foods that you find highly appetizing, this will help mitigate some of the indigestion secondary to anorexia. I have the same issue, but the above has always helped me push through.

The digestive enzymes usually don't help, i'm not exactly sure what the mechanism is behind orals/tren causing issues, i don't believe it to be diet related and it always goes away when discontinuing trenbolone for me and most people.

Struggling to put food away isn't necessarily a bad thing and could mean you have great leptin genes, this makes it easier to stay lean and maintain low body fat. A lot of times *a good cut will bring back your appetite*, but when you bulk for a long time you start producing a lot of leptin due to upregulation and higher levels of body fat. This is the satiety hormone that signals your body that you are full, and too much of it can make you nauseous or feel sick at the thought of food.


----------



## ElChapo

SimpleLimit said:


> Using arimidex, on 450mg test e,
> 
> I think my erection strength is almost the same as before, think I remember having itchy nipples, but that was like a single day out of the 7weeks I been on test now,
> 
> Mood swings were pretty bad when I was on 0.5, but that has not happened since,
> 
> I might just order a blood kit from medicheck, just not sure which one to go with, I did buy TRT plus before starting this cycle, maybe get another one of those,


 Your priority is a E2 test.


----------



## Lancashiregent

SimpleLimit said:


> Using arimidex, on 450mg test e,
> 
> I think my erection strength is almost the same as before, think I remember having itchy nipples, but that was like a single day out of the 7weeks I been on test now,
> 
> Mood swings were pretty bad when I was on 0.5, but that has not happened since,
> 
> I might just order a blood kit from medicheck, just not sure which one to go with, I did buy TRT plus before starting this cycle, maybe get another one of those,


 You just need this test

https://www.medichecks.com/oestradiol-tests/oestradiol-blood


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> First thing, thanks a million for your advice.
> 
> Second - I actually love Quest bars, as a treat that are 200 calories they function well for me. I guess what I am asking is do I count these "net carbs" BS (6g per bar/136cals) towards my daily total, *or do I just count all the carb calories (20g per bar/200cals)?*
> 
> Third - I was under the impression that being on DNP at 200-300mg (bear in mind I'm in Spain and its 30 degrees here already) could be super, super uncomfortable with high carbs. (I was also under the impression that DNP requires v little carbs to actually function but I'm guessing that's BS based on what you've just said)...
> 
> I realise (through plenty of experience) that BJJ and weightlifting need carbs. I can always throw in a small bolus pre and intra workout, *but if I am to understand correctly you are saying that it's OK and won't affect my fat loss to go high carb/low fat (albeit in a deficit) while on DNP?*
> 
> I ask because I'm really afraid of cooking myself ... it can hit 40 degrees where I train BJJ and I worry about killing myself (genuinely)...


 You're welcome

2- Count all the calories in the bar

3- It's BS, energy balance at the end of the day will dictate wether your body taps into adipose tissue stores to fuel itself in a caloric defit. The high carbs will help stave off cravings, keep your muscles as strong as possible, enhance mood/fight lethargy. You might feel hotter, but that down to your discretion. For an optimal cut, keep carbs high.

It is more risky to run DNP while doing intensive sports. Do you feel hot already at room temperature with DNP, then the risk of training is up to you. If you don't feel too hot and just a little warm, you will likely be fine. These are the risks you take when using DNP.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Just had my bloods done and the only thing high was LDL.
> 
> Apart from more cardio, what else can I do to lower this?
> 
> Any supplements you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


 How high is your HDL, good HDL levels will make this less of a problem.

Red yeast rice extra, fish oil (1-2 grams daily/high quality brand like carlson's), small glass of red wine daily.

Again, if HDL is good and you do cardio often and maintain low body fat, i wouldnt worry about. A good anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory will also keep the arteries cleaner by reducing plaque formation. My three go-to are Vitamin K2, pine bark extract, and curcumin.


----------



## ElChapo

popeye1982 said:


> @ElChapo can you shed some light on this minor problem.
> 
> Been pinning Mon,Wed,Fri. 1.6ml for each pin. Mixture of test, deca and eq. Rotating from quad's to qlutes. 1inch pin for quad's and 1 1/4 inch for qlutes. All pins have been pretty much pip free, no soreness or redness ect. For some reason my left glute always seems to bleed out a lot. I always aspirate and no sign of blood in the barrel. No pain or discomfort is ever felt. Any idea what this could be and why it happens?? Cheers Elchapo


 Stop aspirating, it's an antiquated method no longer recommend by modern medical boards. It just greatly increases the risk of PIP and bleeding due to having to keep it steady and longer time for the needle to rip tissue.

Just flex the muscle, find a nice solid area, relax, alcohol swab, pin and inject. I highly recommend ventroglute over gluteus maximus injections, ventroglutes contains no nerves and very few blood vessels and much easier to access than gluteus maximus.

If you bleed after a pin, it's no big deal and not dangerous, it means you went through a blood vessel which happens often but doesn't always lead to bleeding.


----------



## arbffgadm100

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome.
> 
> I am on the lower end of those doses.
> 
> How would you work GH and DNP into that? It seems to me (with my limited knowledge) that HGH and DNP have a synergy for fat loss, would that be correct?
> 
> Thank you!!!!  xxx


 @ElChapo

Not sure if you miased this so tagged you. Hope you don't mind.

Thabks a billion. Love this AMA. Incredible work.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome.
> 
> I am on the lower end of those doses.
> 
> How would you work GH and DNP into that? It seems to me (with my limited knowledge) that HGH and DNP have a synergy for fat loss, would that be correct?
> 
> Thank you!!!!  xxx


 You really don't need them, especially GH.

DNP 200 mg daily with caloric deficit of 25%. If you want to use GH, 3 IU is more than enough, but diet and DNP will torch fat by themselves.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Not sure if you miased this so tagged you. Hope you don't mind.
> 
> Thabks a billion. Love this AMA. Incredible work.


 I thought i missed one, answered.


----------



## UK2USA

What are your thoughts about DNP?

Is it the very dangerous, life-threatening drug that it's made out to be and using it is just not worth it for the regular joe?

Or are the horror stories blown out of proportion and it it is possible to use it responsibly and safely?


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> What are your thoughts about DNP?
> 
> Is it the very dangerous, life-threatening drug that it's made out to be and using it is just not worth it for the regular joe?
> 
> Or are the horror stories blown out of proportion and it it is possible to use it responsibly and safely?


 It's strong and there are conditions to it's use that i recommend. I typically advise to keep the dose at 200 mg and let the caloric deficit and DNP do the work, versus blasting +400 mg which increases side effects like lethargy, malaise, cravings and general shitty quality of life and the risk of neuropathy developing albeit rare at 400 mg.

What i tell everyone is , you don't need fat burners to get very lean but they get you there faster.

It's a mix of the two, the horror stories are real and this compound needs to be respected, but at 200 mg daily most will be completely fine. Absolute max i would cap at 400 mg daily for users with experience using DNP, but i would never run this year round as some do.

Limit to 8 weeks max, if you haven't lost the fat you need to in that amount of time, something is wrong with your diet and lifestyle. +600 mg is to be used at your own risk, but 200 mg daily is fairly safe.

Cliff notes:

Recommended dose : 200 mg daily. Optional: 400 mg for experienced users. Never more than 8 weeks at a time, -25% caloric defict+ daily or EOD cardio recommended.

(low intensity like walking/very light jog x 30-45 minutes )


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

1). What do you think about T3 dosage at 50mcg on 250mg test , and a 500 calorie deficit + 200 calories burnt with cardio ED on a cut to get from 10% to 8% in 2-3 months?

How much T3 does extra burn ?

2). What do you think about all the anavar sold by UGL since years ? why do people need to take 100mg when people used to take low dose ? quality changed?

3). is it common for AAS abusers who take Caber on tren cycles or for sexual enhancement , to get OCDs problem as a long term result?

4). Would UDCA/TUDCA lower elevated AST ALT off or on cycle ? and at which dose , 500 , 1000mg ?


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> It's strong and there are conditions to it's use that i recommend. I typically advise to keep the dose at 200 mg and let the caloric deficit and DNP do the work, versus blasting +400 mg which increases side effects like lethargy, malaise, cravings and general shitty quality of life and the risk of neuropathy developing albeit rare at 400 mg.
> 
> What i tell everyone is , you don't need fat burners to get very lean but they get you there faster.
> 
> It's a mix of the two, the horror stories are real and this compound needs to be respected, but at 200 mg daily most will be completely fine. Absolute max i would cap at 400 mg daily for users with experience using DNP, but i would never run this year round as some do.
> 
> Limit to 8 weeks max, if you haven't lost the fat you need to in that amount of time, something is wrong with your diet and lifestyle. +600 mg is to be used at your own risk, but 200 mg daily is fairly safe.
> 
> Cliff notes:
> 
> Recommended dose : 200 mg daily. Optional: 400 mg for experienced users. Never more than 8 weeks at a time, -25% caloric defict+ daily or EOD cardio recommended.
> 
> (low intensity like walking/very light jog x 30-45 minutes )


 Thank you, you read in some articles that it is a wonder drug and capable of burning off a pound of fat a day, or twenty pounds in a month, ect. But then there are anecdotal reports which barely support those claims - with no disrespect intended, one of the guys has a log on here which just had to end, where his results were unremarkable versus diet alone - and of course, it unlikely that there will be any empirically supported studies/reports for a totally illegal product, since any worthwhile source wouldn't get the study past it's ethical board.

I appreciate your feedback and insight, thank you.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo hi mate im still having problems regarding pip from testosterone and its getting me down. Any idea's as to why I suffer ?

In the past I never had pip issues unless I injected poorly and even then it was minor. Now since 5 years ive suffered real bad with test only.

Ive used just about every lab known and all give me pip to varying degree the only one ive used that give almost zero pip was Galenika pharma.

Sis test e is smooth but I get slight pip, Triumph, Dimensions, TM, SG, Sphinx all give me nasty pip for up to 10 days if its 300mg+.

Do you have any idea why I suffer and anything I could do to stop this ? Forgot to mention even 250mg test e hurts like hell.


----------



## Pancake'

How much muscle growth occurs if you lift the most you've ever lifted on an exercise for just 1 rep?

Back to dips  after fcuking myself up dippping 3-4 plates, I come to the conclusion I can't go heavy on them. I'm thinking of stripping down to 45-100lbs and aiming for higher reps 3x15-25 would this be effective as accessory chest exercise to benching?

Just how safe is Neck training and any guides?

Training related - how would you specifically train yourself, frequency&volume if a 100kg military press was your goal.


----------



## GeordieOak70

Pancake' said:


> How much muscle growth occurs if you lift the most you've ever lifted on an exercise for just 1 rep?
> 
> Back to dips  after fcuking myself up dippping 3-4 plates, I come to the conclusion I can't go heavy on them. I'm thinking of stripping down to 45-100lbs and aiming for higher reps 3x15-25 would this be effective as accessory chest exercise to benching?
> 
> Just how safe is Neck training and any guides?
> 
> Training related - how would you specifically train yourself, frequency&volume if a 100kg military press was your goal.


 Regarding dips mate try doing pushups till your chest burns then try a set of dips straight after.


----------



## Pancake'

GeordieOak70 said:


> Regarding dips mate try doing pushups till your chest burns then try a set of dips straight after.


 Dips are a secondary exercise for me, I always go into them warm after 2-3 sets of flat bench and OHP. Typically perform 2 heavy sets and 1 bodyweight set.

I just experience when I go heavy with them and try and get as strong as I can with them, I injure myself. Give up on the 100kg dip, injury territory. why I'm thinking of at least attempting to get strong in high rep ranges. Before just upping the weight when I hit 8 reps for instance.

Already do press ups on a different day, fantastic _finisher exercise _imo.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo hi mate after some advise regarding hgh as I'm toying with the idea of trying it out for first time in the near future. I feel I have everything in check now and it's something that's interested me for a while!

My plan for the next year is to lean bulk next cycle with test/tren/mast through summer. Cruise for a bit the a bigger bulk with test/npp/winni and maybe dhb (not sure yet )

If I can gain enough muscle without that much fat I might try a comp next year so a cut/prep after Xmas (but this all depends how the following few months go)

so my question is if I was to get 400iu of hgh would I be better off running it continuous back end of bulk, through cruise into prep or cycle it bulk/off when cruise then back on cut/prep?

so higher dose on 2x blasts or continuous use lower dose for longer

Cheers mate


----------



## GeordieOak70

Pancake' said:


> Dips are a secondary exercise for me, I always go into them warm after 2-3 sets of flat bench and OHP. Typically perform 2 heavy sets and 1 bodyweight set.
> 
> I just experience when I go heavy with them and try and get as strong as I can with them, I injure myself. Give up on the 100kg dip, injury territory. why I'm thinking of at least attempting to get strong in high rep ranges. Before just upping the weight when I hit 8 reps for instance.
> 
> Already do press ups on a different day, fantastic _finisher exercise _imo.


 For strength I go for 4 rep range then burn on a 3rd of the weight for as many reps as I can.

OHP was something I was very strong at I managed 110k quite easily a few years back before I got sick.

Now I struggle with 70k but strangely my delts look better but maybe because im leaner I guess.

For chest im finding more volume is working better for me and hitting only once a week.


----------



## Baka

Pancake' said:


> Dips are a secondary exercise for me, I always go into them warm after 2-3 sets of flat bench and OHP. Typically perform 2 heavy sets and 1 bodyweight set.
> 
> I just experience when I go heavy with them and try and get as strong as I can with them, I injure myself. Give up on the 100kg dip, injury territory. why I'm thinking of at least attempting to get strong in high rep ranges. Before just upping the weight when I hit 8 reps for instance.
> 
> Already do press ups on a different day, fantastic _finisher exercise _imo.


 you need to strengthen the joints first , I'm at 100kg dip too but now I stay at 70kg and I try to reach 15 reps , I m at 10 actually.


----------



## Pancake'

GeordieOak70 said:


> For strength I go for 4 rep range then burn on a 3rd of the weight for as many reps as I can.
> 
> OHP was something I was very strong at I managed 110k quite easily a few years back before I got sick.
> 
> Now I struggle with 70k but strangely my delts look better but maybe because im leaner I guess.
> 
> For chest im finding more volume is working better for me and hitting only once a week.


 110kg is a impressive feat of pressing strength. volume/HIT I cycle both personally.



Baka said:


> you need to strengthen the joints first , I'm at 100kg dip too but now I stay at 70kg and I try to reach 15 reps , I m at 10 actually.


 It's not so much joints, like elbows, but more sternum pain. I actually thought I cracked it, as for about 10 days, I was fcuked! Pain when exhaling, making quick movements. I think you have to be really careful with them, I was quick to progress them and used to train them in the 5-8 rep range, soon I hit 8, I'd add weight. Treat them more as a finisher exercise, burnout, go for the pump now.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It's strong and there are conditions to it's use that i recommend. I typically advise to keep the dose at 200 mg and let the caloric deficit and DNP do the work, versus blasting +400 mg which increases side effects like lethargy, malaise, cravings and general shitty quality of life and the risk of neuropathy developing albeit rare at 400 mg.
> 
> What i tell everyone is , you don't need fat burners to get very lean but they get you there faster.
> 
> It's a mix of the two, the horror stories are real and this compound needs to be respected, but at 200 mg daily most will be completely fine. Absolute max i would cap at 400 mg daily for users with experience using DNP, but i would never run this year round as some do.
> 
> Limit to 8 weeks max, if you haven't lost the fat you need to in that amount of time, something is wrong with your diet and lifestyle. +600 mg is to be used at your own risk, but 200 mg daily is fairly safe.
> 
> Cliff notes:
> 
> Recommended dose : 200 mg daily. Optional: 400 mg for experienced users. Never more than 8 weeks at a time, -25% caloric defict+ daily or EOD cardio recommended.
> 
> (low intensity like walking/very light jog x 30-45 minutes )


 What do you think of...

-Total body workout EOD

-On rest days cardio 30-45mins liss

Diet: High carb - 10% fats (4g Omega 3 at least) -1g*lbs prots

5iu Humalog before and after workout to put into muscles some glicogen to give to body some fuel.

If you stay 8w on 200mg DNP by the end of the cycle you will be glicogen depleted badly.

AAS: I would say... 500-600 TestE+ 400 MastE + some AI to keep E2 in check. No Tren since body will be stressed enough from the DNP.

P.S. usually I never go over 2w cycle on 250mg dnp ed and results are nice.


----------



## SlinMeister

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo hi mate after some advise regarding hgh as I'm toying with the idea of trying it out for first time in the near future. I feel I have everything in check now and it's something that's interested me for a while!
> 
> My plan for the next year is to lean bulk next cycle with test/tren/mast through summer. Cruise for a bit the a bigger bulk with test/npp/winni and maybe dhb (not sure yet )
> 
> mid I can gain enough muscle without that much fat I might try a comp next year so a cut/prep after Xmas (but this all depends how the following few months go)
> 
> so my question is if I was to get 400iu of hgh would I be better off running it continuous back end of bulk, through cruise into prep or cycle it bulk/off when cruise then back on cut/prep?


 I would use 4iu HGH ed (2/1/1) together with 5iu Humalog pre and postwo and 50g Vitargo/Waxy Maize 10g EAA 5g BCAA 5g Creatine sipped during wo. 500mg Metformine before bed.

Ofc this during a bulking phase... Try Test Primo DHB or Test Tren NPP, both cycle gave me nice gains.


----------



## pma111

Can tudca be used long term or is it for a few weeks at a time max (if so, why is that?).


----------



## stewedw

Baka said:


> you need to strengthen the joints first , I'm at 100kg dip too but now I stay at 70kg and I try to reach 15 reps , I m at 10 actually.


 I weigh 97kgand do dips for literally tonnes of reps. Last time I did 190kgwith the hammer strength dip machine (emphasis on triceps , strapped into the set via a seat belt and knee brace) then drop sets at 160/140/120kg for 10+ reps.... What's the "100kg dip" you refer too, surely not the max you strap on or Total weight?


----------



## Baka

stewedw said:


> I weigh 97kgand do dips for literally tonnes of reps. Last time I did 190kgwith the hammer strength dip machine (emphasis on triceps , strapped into the set via a seat belt and knee brace) then drop sets at 160/140/120kg for 10+ reps.... What's the "100kg dip" you refer too, surely not the max you strap on or Total weight?


 I meant weighted dip 100kg , bw I'm at 72kg

I do have a dip machine but no belt so you can't do much lol , that sucks.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1). What do you think about T3 dosage at 50mcg on 250mg test , and a 500 calorie deficit + 200 calories burnt with cardio ED on a cut to get from 10% to 8% in 2-3 months?
> 
> How much T3 does extra burn ?
> 
> 2). What do you think about all the anavar sold by UGL since years ? why do people need to take 100mg when people used to take low dose ? quality changed?
> 
> 3). is it common for AAS abusers who take Caber on tren cycles or for sexual enhancement , to get OCDs problem as a long term result?
> 
> 4). Would UDCA/TUDCA lower elevated AST ALT off or on cycle ? and at which dose , 500 , 1000mg ?


 1: T3 is the worst standalone fat burner, it's better as an enhancer to other fat burners. As a standalone, it's effective at slowing down the metabolic down regulation that comes with diet. So it stops your body from slowing down fat loss on a cut.

If you did what you said in #1, you should be able to cut down from 8-10% in 4-6 weeks, even without T3.

2 : Anavar is a pretty mild androgen, some people love it, but it's overrated for men. There are more efficient, cheaper and easier to get compounds on the market. It's very good for females, especially as an introductory cycle.

3: This could be possible, the mechanisms behind OCD are not fully known, but they are dopaminergic/serotonergic in nature. Messing with neurotransmitters in someone with a genetic predisposition...this might be possible. I could it see it making it worse or better.

4: 250-500 mg, people usually see a decrease in liver enzymes.


----------



## stewedw

Baka said:


> I meant weighted dip 100kg , bw I'm at 72kg
> 
> I do have a dip machine but no belt so you can't do much lol , that sucks.ah so bodyweight plus 100kg? I think that's a decent marker for strength at 8+ reps


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> Thank you, you read in some articles that it is a wonder drug and capable of burning off a pound of fat a day, or twenty pounds in a month, ect. But then there are anecdotal reports which barely support those claims - with no disrespect intended, one of the guys has a log on here which just had to end, where his results were unremarkable versus diet alone - and of course, it unlikely that there will be any empirically supported studies/reports for a totally illegal product, since any worthwhile source wouldn't get the study past it's ethical board.
> 
> I appreciate your feedback and insight, thank you.


 DNP has a long history of use for this purpose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol#Dieting_aid

No one can say what the quality of the individual product will be at one time. Many over and under dose their caps. Sometimes when people keep logs, they misreport their caloric intake.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo hi mate im still having problems regarding pip from testosterone and its getting me down. Any idea's as to why I suffer ?
> 
> In the past I never had pip issues unless I injected poorly and even then it was minor. Now since 5 years ive suffered real bad with test only.
> 
> Ive used just about every lab known and all give me pip to varying degree the only one ive used that give almost zero pip was Galenika pharma.
> 
> Sis test e is smooth but I get slight pip, Triumph, Dimensions, TM, SG, Sphinx all give me nasty pip for up to 10 days if its 300mg+.
> 
> Do you have any idea why I suffer and anything I could do to stop this ? Forgot to mention even 250mg test e hurts like hell.


 That's odd. There are various kinds of pips. 1. high concentration 2. needle shaking 3. oil leaking subq are the most likely problems.

What kind of pin size and length are using right now? What injection spots are you using and what's your body fat percentage?


----------



## Baka

stewedw said:


> Baka said:
> 
> 
> 
> I meant weighted dip 100kg , bw I'm at 72kg
> 
> I do have a dip machine but no belt so you can't do much lol , that sucks.ah so bodyweight plus 100kg? I think that's a decent marker for strength at 8+ reps
Click to expand...

 I'm doing my 8 rep at 70kg weighted , not 100 , 100 is just for 1 rep atm.

But as I said , if you're scared to get injured from dip , strengthen it as much as u can before upping to 100+ , and front delt raises will help too.

I know it because I injured myself because I was increasing the weight way too fast


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> How much muscle growth occurs if you lift the most you've ever lifted on an exercise for just 1 rep?
> 
> Back to dips  after fcuking myself up dippping 3-4 plates, I come to the conclusion I can't go heavy on them. I'm thinking of stripping down to 45-100lbs and aiming for higher reps 3x15-25 would this be effective as accessory chest exercise to benching?
> 
> Just how safe is Neck training and any guides?
> 
> Training related - how would you specifically train yourself, frequency&volume if a 100kg military press was your goal.


 I can't say, the damage and stimulation incurred by pushing the muscle to new limits causes adaptations that make the muscle fiber grow bigger.

You need to get stronger before you can do that many. I know people including myself repping 3-4 plates for 8-15 reps. You need to increase your strength gradually and eventually it will be as easy as 1-2 plates.

Neck training is usually not necessary unless you are a fighter or wrestler. Your regular routine will train your neck muscles indirectly. If you mean you want to increase neck size, get a high quality weight harness for your neck and gradually increase the weight that rep you on it. It will make your neck thicker for sure.

I've hit 100kg military press myself. Generally, you will want to train for strength and cut back on volume. Your goal is to add 2.5-5 lbs per week to the weight lifted. Once you get very strong, you should only be hitting the military press once per week, and bench press once per week (if training purely for strength). When you plateau, get yourself some 1 lbs plates and starting working with those. Make sure your diet and rest are in check, you need sufficient recovery to get stronger. AAS will help, tren and winstrol are a potent combo for strength.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Dips are a secondary exercise for me, I always go into them warm after 2-3 sets of flat bench and OHP. Typically perform 2 heavy sets and 1 bodyweight set.
> 
> I just experience when I go heavy with them and try and get as strong as I can with them, I injure myself. Give up on the 100kg dip, injury territory. why I'm thinking of at least attempting to get strong in high rep ranges. Before just upping the weight when I hit 8 reps for instance.
> 
> Already do press ups on a different day, fantastic _finisher exercise _imo.


 Work in the 8-15 rep range with the dips and gradually add 5-10 lbs every week until you get to 3 plates for 8 reps and you won't get injured anymore. You need to slowly build the strength to be able to handle that weight without injury. Your ligaments and joints will get stronger, but you need to give them time.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo hi mate after some advise regarding hgh as I'm toying with the idea of trying it out for first time in the near future. I feel I have everything in check now and it's something that's interested me for a while!
> 
> My plan for the next year is to lean bulk next cycle with test/tren/mast through summer. Cruise for a bit the a bigger bulk with test/npp/winni and maybe dhb (not sure yet )
> 
> If I can gain enough muscle without that much fat I might try a comp next year so a cut/prep after Xmas (but this all depends how the following few months go)
> 
> so my question is if I was to get 400iu of hgh would I be better off running it continuous back end of bulk, through cruise into prep or cycle it bulk/off when cruise then back on cut/prep?
> 
> so higher dose on 2x blasts or continuous use lower dose for longer
> 
> Cheers mate


 Higher dose for bulking if you are looking for lots of mass. Consider throwing a little insulin in there too. (for more mass)

If i want to run a low maintenance protocol, just run GH 3 IU the whole way. (for better recovery, performance, recomp) It depends on your goals.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> For strength I go for 4 rep range then burn on a 3rd of the weight for as many reps as I can.
> 
> OHP was something I was very strong at I managed 110k quite easily a few years back before I got sick.
> 
> Now I struggle with 70k but strangely my delts look better but maybe because im leaner I guess.
> 
> For chest im finding more volume is working better for me and hitting only once a week.


 I like to mix 4-15 rep range for bench press. Strength and volume together work for optimal growth. If you can rep 225-315 lbs, you will not have a small chest.

Delts really look different from +15% and <12%. People will think you gained more muscle because of the "3D look" that muscle seperation gives the muscle just by losing body fat.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> What do you think of...
> 
> -Total body workout EOD
> 
> -On rest days cardio 30-45mins liss
> 
> Diet: High carb - 10% fats (4g Omega 3 at least) -1g*lbs prots
> 
> 5iu Humalog before and after workout to put into muscles some glicogen to give to body some fuel.
> 
> If you stay 8w on 200mg DNP by the end of the cycle you will be glicogen depleted badly.
> 
> AAS: I would say... 500-600 TestE+ 400 MastE + some AI to keep E2 in check. No Tren since body will be stressed enough from the DNP.
> 
> P.S. usually I never go over 2w cycle on 250mg dnp ed and results are nice.


 Not a fan myself unless you are going for high volume or your body respond best this way.

Cardio is always good when cutting and bulking unless you are a hard gainer with a fast metabolism.

Diet looks good

If you are taking insulin pre-workout and post-workout, make sure you eat that with some carbs or you risk going hypoglycemic.

Yes, you should run DNP only for cutting, not for maintenance, that's a terrible idea i see floating around a lot. The glycogen depletion and flat look is not a problem as it's temporary, if you are running DNP you are looking for either very quick or significant amounts of fat loss in a short period. To be clear, i'm not telling people to run DNP for 8 weeks, i'm setting it as the maximum recommended time it should be run in one go.

Mast is pretty weak for mass building, you should take the mast out and winstrol in it's place ( for cutting or bulking) DHB is also a much better substitute. Both will dry you out more and provide more lean tissue accrual.

The most important question, is this a cutting cycle or bulking? You need to pick one. If it's cutting, you would be fine with 300-600 mg testosterone+ 50 mg winstrol daily or 400 mg DHB per week.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I would use 4iu HGH ed (2/1/1) together with 5iu Humalog pre and postwo and 50g Vitargo/Waxy Maize 10g EAA 5g BCAA 5g Creatine sipped during wo. 500mg Metformine before bed.
> 
> Ofc this during a bulking phase... Try Test Primo DHB or Test Tren NPP, both cycle gave me nice gains.


 No need for the bullshit carbs, you're just flushing money down the toilet with waxy maize and the other carb supplements. You will get the same effect from eating cereal with milk.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Can tudca be used long term or is it for a few weeks at a time max (if so, why is that?).


 Tudca is just a bile salt. It's actually based on ancient chinese medicine. You can run it long-term but you shouldn't be having to because whatever you are taking it for should not be run for that long.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> That's odd. There are various kinds of pips. 1. high concentration 2. needle shaking 3. oil leaking subq are the most likely problems.
> 
> What kind of pin size and length are using right now? What injection spots are you using and what's your body fat percentage?


 Inch long blues or 5/8th orange v.glute delts tri's bi's chest, 12-14% bf.

High concentration is the worst for pip but its only with test all other oils are fine.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Inch long blues or 5/8th orange v.glute delts tri's bi's chest, 12-14% bf.
> 
> High concentration is the worst for pip but its only with test all other oils are fine.


 That's very odd, have you tried propionate and cyp?

What gauge are the needles?


----------



## G-man99

@ElChapo

What are your views on HGH timing?

Looking at running 4iu M/W/F and taking it just before bed.

Is this your preferred method or something else?


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are your views on HGH timing?
> 
> Looking at running 4iu M/W/F and taking it just before bed.
> 
> Is this your preferred method or something else?


 I would do it daily, the half-life is extremely short. It's out of your blood in a few hours in fact.

Some have good results with weekends off if you have an issue with frequency, but some diabetics need to inject x 3 daily for the rest of their life.


----------



## Jordan08

Anything your recommend for a mood enhancer?. Any OTC supplement that can calm the brain..lol.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Higher dose for bulking if you are looking for lots of mass. Consider throwing a little insulin in there too. (for more mass)
> 
> If i want to run a low maintenance protocol, just run GH 3 IU the whole way. (for better recovery, performance, recomp) It depends on your goals.


 How do/would you run it?

Seems like m/w/f or eod is the way forward these days?

so there is no real benefit for longer use then as I've read a few times people say you have to run it for a long time to see the benefits but then also seen studies that prove them wrong! The sticky in here shows guys adding muscle and losing fat over a 6 week period


----------



## Will2309

Hi elchapo, this is the first time asking a question but I keep on top of reading thus thread. Great place to learn. So thank you.

Anyway, do you think Doxazosin is a good blood pressure med. ??

I have tried ramipril and amlodipine which didn't agree with me for one reason or another.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> That's very odd, have you tried propionate and cyp?
> 
> What gauge are the needles?


 Yes mate prop and cyp both give pip too.

23G pins for blues orange I think are 30G iirc.


----------



## BestBefore1989

HI ElChapo

I have been having a few health issues and whilst investigating my pancreas, my hospital found I have torn mucosal of the duopenum and have a hiatus hernia which I understand is just a side issue and no big deal, but their advise to me was to avoid bending forward and to wear loose clothing and not put any pressure on my stomach.

What the could not tell me and I have been unable to find out with a quick google search is this.

When wearing a lifting belt and bracing for a lift, you expand your core against the belt, would that put pressure on my stomach? and given that I never eat at least an hour before training would that make much difference?


----------



## Baka

Pancake' said:


> 110kg is a impressive feat of pressing strength. volume/HIT I cycle both personally.
> 
> It's not so much joints, like elbows, but more sternum pain. I actually thought I cracked it, as for about 10 days, I was fcuked! Pain when exhaling, making quick movements. I think you have to be really careful with them, I was quick to progress them and used to train them in the 5-8 rep range, soon I hit 8, I'd add weight. Treat them more as a finisher exercise, burnout, go for the pump now.


 I see , I get that sternum pain too sometimes when I do heavy 3 reps only , but I always thought it was because it s working my chest really well .


----------



## Baka

Jordan08 said:


> Anything your recommend for a mood enhancer?. Any OTC supplement that can calm the brain..lol.


 Kratom ( red vein ) , agmatine


----------



## Jordan08

Baka said:


> Kratom ( red vein ) , agmatine


 I am looking for a mood enhancer mate not wanting to get high thru out the day..haha


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Anything your recommend for a mood enhancer?. Any OTC supplement that can calm the brain..lol.


 I always recommend regular cardio or jogging first or martial arts training. Magnesium supplementation. Vitamin D, test and estradiol in optimal ranges. Thyroid in optimal range.

If the mood problem or deficit is caused by something pathological or a deficiency then it's best to treat that first before moving on to a mood enhancer.

You said calm the brain but you also said mood enhancer. When i think "calm the brain" i think anxiety, when i think "mood enhancement" i think increase enjoyment of life, motivation and drive. Both would be tackled in different ways with different treatments and compounds.

Which one are you looking to specifically address?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> How do/would you run it?
> 
> Seems like m/w/f or eod is the way forward these days?
> 
> so there is no real benefit for longer use then as I've read a few times people say you have to run it for a long time to see the benefits but then also seen studies that prove them wrong! The sticky in here shows guys adding muscle and losing fat over a 6 week period


 It would depend on my goals at the time.

Anti-aging: 2 iu daily

Performance enhancement/recovery: 3 iu daily

Lean massing: +6 iu with insulin protocol during bulk phases.

I think the advice to run it for a very long time comes from the fact that people expect miracles from GH and you don't see anything really happening right away, it's highly overrated until you have everything else in place 100% being AAS, diet, training and experience.

Most guys do NOT need to touch this compound ever to reach their goals. If you ever want to be mass monster, eventually GH and slin will open the gates to freakville but many guys are running this too early or don't ever need to start it.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Hi elchapo, this is the first time asking a question but I keep on top of reading thus thread. Great place to learn. So thank you.
> 
> Anyway, do you think Doxazosin is a good blood pressure med. ??
> 
> I have tried ramipril and amlodipine which didn't agree with me for one reason or another.


 I need more background on your case. How high is your BP without any meds, do you suffer from anxiety/agitation/anger, is your BP problem only on an AAS cycle, and what issues did you get from running ramipril and amlodipine and what were your doses?

You have yet to try a beta blocker like metroprolol i would try that next first.

Alpha blockers like doxazosin are not commonly used.

March 2000, the Antihypertensive and Lipid Lowering Treatment to Prevent Heart Attack Trial (ALLHAT) study stopped its arm of the trial looking at alpha blockers, because doxazosin was less effective than a simple diuretic, and because patients on doxazosin had a 25% higher rate of cardiovascular disease and twice the rate of congestive heart failure as patients on diuretics.[1]


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Yes mate prop and cyp both give pip too.
> 
> 23G pins for blues orange I think are 30G iirc.


 Your hands are steady when injecting right? Have you tried ventroglutes yet?

Dilute your test oil with other compounds(in the syringe) , i used to do this when i made a batch with too high a concentration. Works very well.


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> HI ElChapo
> 
> I have been having a few health issues and whilst investigating my pancreas, my hospital found I have torn mucosal of the duopenum and have a hiatus hernia which I understand is just a side issue and no big deal, but their advise to me was to avoid bending forward and to wear loose clothing and not put any pressure on my stomach.
> 
> What the could not tell me and I have been unable to find out with a quick google search is this.
> 
> When wearing a lifting belt and bracing for a lift, you expand your core against the belt, would that put pressure on my stomach? and given that I never eat at least an hour before training would that make much difference?


 I think they meant not putting pressure as in when you hold your breath to brace for defecation or valsalva maneuver when lifting weight because this pressure aggravate a hernia.

I would take the medical advice and wait until you get the hernia repaired.

To answer your question, bracing against the belt is exactly the kind of pressure i think they want you to avoid. You can still lift weights, but stick to high reps/high volume until you get hernia deal straightened out. Avoid heavy weights or pushing yourself to far into failure where your form breaks down.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> I am looking for a mood enhancer mate not wanting to get high thru out the day..haha


 Are you trying to increase drive and motivation or calm down anxiety/nervousness?


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> It would depend on my goals at the time.
> 
> Anti-aging: 2 iu daily
> 
> Performance enhancement/recovery: 3 iu daily
> 
> Lean massing: +6 iu with insulin protocol during bulk phases.
> 
> I think the advice to run it for a very long time comes from the fact that people expect miracles from GH and you don't see anything really happening right away, it's highly overrated until you have everything else in place 100% being AAS, diet, training and experience.
> 
> Most guys do NOT need to touch this compound ever to reach their goals. If you ever want to be mass monster, eventually GH and slin will open the gates to freakville but many guys are running this too early or don't ever need to start it.


 I'm far from a mass moster, currently sitting just over 14st around 12-14% bf @6.1 but I do feel I now after 3 years of spinning my wheels have everything in check (or there abouts I say)

I want to add a decent bit of size between now and Xmas with minimal fat gain and maybe compete around this time next year (depending on how it all goes between now and Xmas). Hgh has always had me interested but I didn't wanna just jump on it like I did with gear and f**k it up

it's only an ide atm though but I am trying to get as much info on it as poss. Been reading this morning and was thinking if I ran maybe

6iu eod before bed (just for convenience) up to 8-10iu depending on how I get on

insulin (humalog) starting at 2iu post workout 20g carbs working up to 10iu over 4 weeks, mon-fri (training days) weekends off


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> I always recommend regular cardio or jogging first or martial arts training. Magnesium supplementation. Vitamin D, test and estradiol in optimal ranges. Thyroid in optimal range.
> 
> If the mood problem or deficit is caused by something pathological or a deficiency then it's best to treat that first before moving on to a mood enhancer.
> 
> You said calm the brain but you also said mood enhancer. When i think "calm the brain" i think anxiety, when i think "mood enhancement" i think increase enjoyment of life, motivation and drive. Both would be tackled in different ways with different treatments and compounds.
> 
> Which one are you looking to specifically address?


 Later one bud.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Your hands are steady when injecting right? Have you tried ventroglutes yet?
> 
> Dilute your test oil with other compounds(in the syringe) , i used to do this when i made a batch with too high a concentration. Works very well.


 I use the ventro also mate and almost always have another compound mixed in, nothing seems to work.


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> I think they meant not putting pressure as in when you hold your breath to brace for defecation or valsalva maneuver when lifting weight because this pressure aggravate a hernia.
> 
> I would take the medical advice and wait until you get the hernia repaired.
> 
> To answer your question, bracing against the belt is exactly the kind of pressure i think they want you to avoid. You can still lift weights, but stick to high reps/high volume until you get hernia deal straightened out. Avoid heavy weights or pushing yourself to far into failure where your form breaks down.


 Thank you very much for your reply sir, Its what I needed to know but not what I wanted to hear.

sadly I am being treated by the NHS who would rather treat me with omeprazole for the resulting Gastro-oesophageal reflux disease than operate to fix the hiatus hernia.

I will try to talk to the consultant when I go back to get the results of the biopsy taken when examining my pancreas but I doubt I will get very far. When he was asking me about my diet and I told him I was eating 3800 Kcal a day he asked why?, and when I replied I was trying to gain mass he again asked why?.

He told me to reduce the fat I eat and to avoid things like fried fish and chips, I told him my highest fat meal was salmon and an avocado salad and asked him if Medium-chain triglycerides where OK to which he replied "what are Medium-chain triglycerides?" :huh: :lol:


----------



## GeordieOak70

BestBefore1989 said:


> Thank you very much for your reply sir, Its what I needed to know but not what I wanted to hear.
> 
> sadly I am being treated by the NHS who would rather treat me with omeprazole for the resulting Gastro-oesophageal reflux disease than operate to fix the hiatus hernia.
> 
> I will try to talk to the consultant when I go back to get the results of the biopsy taken when examining my pancreas but I doubt I will get very far. When he was asking me about my diet and I told him I was eating 3800 Kcal a day he asked why?, and when I replied I was trying to gain mass he again asked why?.
> 
> He told me to reduce the fat I eat and to avoid things like fried fish and chips, I told him my highest fat meal was salmon and an avocado salad and asked him if Medium-chain triglycerides where OK to which he replied "what are Medium-chain triglycerides?" :huh: :lol:


 Ive suffered from a hiatus hernia for years mate its horrible but all my doctor said is basically the same as yours.

I also have sleep apnoea and I was told my 19.5 inch neck had to be reduced by stop training lol.

My diet was said to be strange for someone who keeps fit even though I said im building muscle he was clueless.

Im now munching Nexium to control the reflux ( volcanic lava ) and no chance of any further treatment.

Doctors here are clueless I hate it.


----------



## BestBefore1989

GeordieOak70 said:


> Ive suffered from a hiatus hernia for years mate its horrible but all my doctor said is basically the same as yours.
> 
> I also have sleep apnoea and I was told my 19.5 inch neck had to be reduced by stop training lol.
> 
> My diet was said to be strange for someone who keeps fit even though I said im building muscle he was clueless.
> 
> Im now munching Nexium to control the reflux ( volcanic lava ) and no chance of any further treatment.
> 
> Doctors here are clueless I hate it.


 Yea, I have a cap machine as well mate, I go to bed every night sounding like Darth Vader but at least the wife tells me I look like Bane 

Have you dropped 1 rep max/ 2 rep sets from your training or do you still lift heavy?


----------



## stewedw

If you guys have googled "Gerd" then I'm sorta surprised you're taking omeprezole etc.?


----------



## BestBefore1989

stewedw said:


> If you guys have googled "Gerd" then I'm sorta surprised you're taking omeprezole etc.?


 Its what the hospital prescribed !, that and antibiotics


----------



## stewedw

BestBefore1989 said:


> Its what the hospital prescribed !, that and antibiotics


 I understand, and if it's a shirt term fix then I get why you would use it. Go goole Gerd and have a read, it'll amaze you the number of folk including health professionals that state they would not touch that type of drug at all. I hope you get it sorted mate.


----------



## BestBefore1989

stewedw said:


> I understand, and if it's a shirt term fix then I get why you would use it. Go goole Gerd and have a read, it'll amaze you the number of folk including health professionals that state they would not touch that type of drug at all. I hope you get it sorted mate.


 I did google it mate and to be honest I don't know what sounds worse, gastric cancer or the severe blisters and bleeding in the lips, eyes, mouth, nose and genitals. :crying:


----------



## swole troll

BestBefore1989 said:


> I did google it mate and to be honest I don't know what sounds worse, gastric cancer or the severe blisters and bleeding in the lips, eyes, mouth, nose and genitals. :crying:


 im not sure how bad yours is but dietary changes such as adding in full fat freek yogurt and other dairy products can help also drinking a large glass of tonic water because of the quinine offers almost instant relief in my experience

failing that try stan efferdings vertical diet, its somewhat restrictive but high end athletes are running it to great success for growing including brian shaw, larry wheels and thor

i personally found that between the yogurt and tonic water i can keep it under control provided im not on tren or harsh orals then omeprazole is a necessary evil or my life is a misery

i also recently dropped ALA from my supplement regime used to control blood glucose in conjunction with other supps and meds as that was giving me horrendous acid reflux

i do feel for you, its a miserable condition and imo one of the worse 'external' sides of steroids


----------



## Redser

I have been diagnosed with Gerd, 12 years ago. Used to wake up unable to breath like I was drowning as the reflux got into my lungs, terrifying at the time.

I've used omazprazole or what ever it's called over the years, usually I would take it for a week and I'd be fine for a month.

As I've got older and wiser I've focused more on diet. If I avoid too much fat such as salmon, avocado, fish oils etc I have no issues and it makes sense as I used to eat a hell of a lot of Mackrel, salmon, plaice, kippers etc.

One thing that helps is Braggs Apple cider vinegar 'with mother'. One spoon every day, neutralizes the acids.

In the long term it's a bad idea to ignore Gerd, narrowing of the throat, cancer etc...


----------



## stewedw

Redser said:


> I have been diagnosed with Gerd, 12 years ago. Used to wake up unable to breath like I was drowning as the reflux got into my lungs, terrifying at the time.
> 
> I've used omazprazole or what ever it's called over the years, usually I would take it for a week and I'd be fine for a month.
> 
> As I've got older and wiser I've focused more on diet. If I avoid too much fat such as salmon, avocado, fish oils etc I have no issues and it makes sense as I used to eat a hell of a lot of Mackrel, salmon, plaice, kippers etc.
> 
> One thing that helps is Braggs Apple cider vinegar 'with mother'. One spoon every day, neutralizes the acids.
> 
> In the long term it's a bad idea to ignore Gerd, narrowing of the throat, cancer etc...


 That's where I was going.... Omeprezole and the like do not deal with the pro Ken, they mast it and often make it worse. Apple cider vinegar, even the caps help along with various other things. Taking a drug to lower stomach acid which is actually low to begin with is not the answer but so many gps go down this route. Acv, digestive enzymes and diet are more effective whether on aas or not. All the best mate.


----------



## GeordieOak70

BestBefore1989 said:


> Yea, I have a cap machine as well mate, I go to bed every night sounding like Darth Vader but at least the wife tells me I look like Bane
> 
> Have you dropped 1 rep max/ 2 rep sets from your training or do you still lift heavy?


 I have had the mask mate but the noise stops me sleeping so I cant use it and the air feels like its forced into my nose/mouth so I panic lol.

The lowest I go now on reps is 4-6 and I had to drop ego benching as it killed me, I never go above 140kg normally odd occasion 160kg.

So I do still lift heavy to an extent but never pushing numbers like I used to years ago.


----------



## GeordieOak70

Redser said:


> I have been diagnosed with Gerd, 12 years ago. Used to wake up unable to breath like I was drowning as the reflux got into my lungs, terrifying at the time.
> 
> I've used omazprazole or what ever it's called over the years, usually I would take it for a week and I'd be fine for a month.
> 
> As I've got older and wiser I've focused more on diet. If I avoid too much fat such as salmon, avocado, fish oils etc I have no issues and it makes sense as I used to eat a hell of a lot of Mackrel, salmon, plaice, kippers etc.
> 
> One thing that helps is Braggs Apple cider vinegar 'with mother'. One spoon every day, neutralizes the acids.
> 
> In the long term it's a bad idea to ignore Gerd, narrowing of the throat, cancer etc...


 Waking up choking like I was drowning happens to me at times too think I will look for that apple cider vinegar.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I'm far from a mass moster, currently sitting just over 14st around 12-14% bf @6.1 but I do feel I now after 3 years of spinning my wheels have everything in check (or there abouts I say)
> 
> I want to add a decent bit of size between now and Xmas with minimal fat gain and maybe compete around this time next year (depending on how it all goes between now and Xmas). Hgh has always had me interested but I didn't wanna just jump on it like I did with gear and f**k it up
> 
> it's only an ide atm though but I am trying to get as much info on it as poss. Been reading this morning and was thinking if I ran maybe
> 
> 6iu eod before bed (just for convenience) up to 8-10iu depending on how I get on
> 
> insulin (humalog) starting at 2iu post workout 20g carbs working up to 10iu over 4 weeks, mon-fri (training days) weekends off


 How strong are you? A lot of people need to mix it up and either add strength or volume to their routine. If you can't bench press 315 lbs for reps with perfect form, it's something you need to work on in order to maximize your muscle growth. Other guys focus too much on strength and don't get enough volume. It's all relative.

HGH isn't the answer. If you want to gain lean mass with minimal fat, you need to keep your caloric surplus moderate and controlled. A surplus of 500 calories is more than anyone needs if they want to stay lean. 250-500 is a good aim for a lean bulk, and make sure you stay under 15% bodyfat, then cut back down when you reach that number.

What body parts are you currently lagging on? What is your training style? Classic bodybuilding high volume high reps?


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Later one bud.


 Do you have your testosterone/estradiol levels in the optimal range? Do you do regular cardiovascular exercise? How is your sleep? Have you had thyroid lab work?

Once everything is optimized, then i would look into supplementation. Wellbutrin is not OTC but it's easy to get from indian pharma and it enhances dopaminergic neurotransmission and it's a nice mild drug.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> I use the ventro also mate and almost always have another compound mixed in, nothing seems to work.


 That's damn strange, have you ever ran a testosterone UGL brand that didn't bother you?


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> Thank you very much for your reply sir, Its what I needed to know but not what I wanted to hear.
> 
> sadly I am being treated by the NHS who would rather treat me with omeprazole for the resulting Gastro-oesophageal reflux disease than operate to fix the hiatus hernia.
> 
> I will try to talk to the consultant when I go back to get the results of the biopsy taken when examining my pancreas but I doubt I will get very far. When he was asking me about my diet and I told him I was eating 3800 Kcal a day he asked why?, and when I replied I was trying to gain mass he again asked why?.
> 
> He told me to reduce the fat I eat and to avoid things like fried fish and chips, I told him my highest fat meal was salmon and an avocado salad and asked him if Medium-chain triglycerides where OK to which he replied "what are Medium-chain triglycerides?" :huh: :lol:


 I would try to get a referral to a sports medicine doctor, they are more sympathetic to the goals of athletes and bodybuilders. Regular MD will not understand your motivations and drive.

Typical.... :whistling:


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> That's damn strange, have you ever ran a testosterone UGL brand that didn't bother you?


 Sis test e 300 is the least pip other than that Galenika test e 250 only gives a feeling ive injected but no actual pip.

Problem is Galenika being real pharma is damn expensive.

Also ive just remembered I get less pip off sustanon but im not a fan of it I prefere prop or enanthate.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Your hands are steady when injecting right? Have you tried ventroglutes yet?
> 
> Dilute your test oil with other compounds(in the syringe) , i used to do this when i made a batch with too high a concentration. Works very well.


 How do you find ventroglutes?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> im not sure how bad yours is but dietary changes such as adding in full fat freek yogurt and other dairy products can help also drinking a large glass of tonic water because of the quinine offers almost instant relief in my experience
> 
> failing that try stan efferdings vertical diet, its somewhat restrictive but high end athletes are running it to great success for growing including brian shaw, larry wheels and thor
> 
> i personally found that between the yogurt and tonic water i can keep it under control provided im not on tren or harsh orals then omeprazole is a necessary evil or my life is a misery
> 
> i also recently dropped ALA from my supplement regime used to control blood glucose in conjunction with other supps and meds as that was giving me horrendous acid reflux
> 
> i do feel for you, its a miserable condition and imo one of the worse 'external' sides of steroids


 I love Stan Efferding, great guy, he's another case for strength training and powerlifting to maximize bodybuilding potential. Mike O'Hearn as well.


----------



## Avgs

Also, what would you recommend for anxiety?


----------



## BestBefore1989

Redser said:


> I have been diagnosed with Gerd, 12 years ago. Used to wake up unable to breath like I was drowning as the reflux got into my lungs, terrifying at the time.
> 
> I've used omazprazole or what ever it's called over the years, usually I would take it for a week and I'd be fine for a month.
> 
> As I've got older and wiser I've focused more on diet. If I avoid too much fat such as salmon, avocado, fish oils etc I have no issues and it makes sense as I used to eat a hell of a lot of Mackrel, salmon, plaice, kippers etc.
> 
> One thing that helps is Braggs Apple cider vinegar 'with mother'. One spoon every day, neutralizes the acids.
> 
> In the long term it's a bad idea to ignore Gerd, narrowing of the throat, cancer etc...





stewedw said:


> That's where I was going.... Omeprezole and the like do not deal with the pro Ken, they mast it and often make it worse. Apple cider vinegar, even the caps help along with various other things. Taking a drug to lower stomach acid which is actually low to begin with is not the answer but so many gps go down this route. Acv, digestive enzymes and diet are more effective whether on aas or not. All the best mate.


 Thanks guys, I have just ordered some, not sure what the mother is but I got one with it to give it a try.



ElChapo said:


> I would try to get a referral to a sports medicine doctor, they are more sympathetic to the goals of athletes and bodybuilders. Regular MD will not understand your motivations and drive.
> 
> Typical.... :whistling:


 Thanks again ElChapo, I will wait until the hospital have come to some conclusion with the tests they have run on my pancreas and then see if I can find one on the The British Association of Sport and Exercise Medicine's web site.


----------



## Redser

GeordieOak70 said:


> Waking up choking like I was drowning happens to me at times too think I will look for that apple cider vinegar.


 My misses rang a fukin ambulance only 2 years ago, I woke up around d 2am and couldn't draw my breath, I was gurgling and purple... That kind fok I fought it and after a minute or so I was able to get some air in.

She thought I was having a heart attack ffs, she was around 7 months pregnant at the time I'll never forget it.

Ambulance guy new straight away by the smell of what I coughed up that it was reflux.

Never want to relive that again


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Sis test e 300 is the least pip other than that Galenika test e 250 only gives a feeling ive injected but no actual pip.
> 
> Problem is Galenika being real pharma is damn expensive.
> 
> Also ive just remembered I get less pip off sustanon but im not a fan of it I prefere prop or enanthate.


 I would go with what hurts the least, bad pip can affect workouts and quality of life quite a bit.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> How do you find ventroglutes?












Credit goes to Excelmale.com, a great resource for male HRT information.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Also, what would you recommend for anxiety?


 First i would make sure testosterone/estradiol/thyroid are optimal, second make sure you are doing cardiovascular exercise and taking magnesium regularly, anxiety is caused by release of adrenaline, doing cardio makes your body build a tolerance to this adrenaline "fight or flight" response that is a panic attack or anxious feeling.

Mixed martials arts/BJJ sparring is a great way to master your emotions and blunt yourself to that anxious feeling as you develop a physical and psychological tolerance for stress. For many people, this completely helps cure anxiety by treating the problem from all angles (increase confidence through practice, building a tolerance for cortisol/adrenaline, and getting rid of nervous, pent up energy)

Finally, if all else fails a small dose of beta blocker is very effective for most people. Beta blocker means beta adrenergic receptor antagonist, beta adrenergic receptor is where adrenaline attaches itself to cause the usual effects it's associated with. Metoprolol is a beta blocker. This a fairly mild way to treat the anxiety without resorting to stronger drugs like xanax and valium.


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> Thanks guys, I have just ordered some, not sure what the mother is but I got one with it to give it a try.
> 
> Thanks again ElChapo, I will wait until the hospital have come to some conclusion with the tests they have run on my pancreas and then see if I can find one on the The British Association of Sport and Exercise Medicine's web site.


 Anytime, keep us posted. I'm sure you will get it straightened out.


----------



## ElChapo

Redser said:


> My misses rang a fukin ambulance only 2 years ago, I woke up around d 2am and couldn't draw my breath, I was gurgling and purple... That kind fok I fought it and after a minute or so I was able to get some air in.
> 
> She thought I was having a heart attack ffs, she was around 7 months pregnant at the time I'll never forget it.
> 
> Ambulance guy new straight away by the smell of what I coughed up that it was reflux.
> 
> Never want to relive that again


 Had this same problem running Tren E a while back. It's a nasty feeling. The sound will terrify any bystanders.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Do you have your testosterone/estradiol levels in the optimal range? Do you do regular cardiovascular exercise? How is your sleep? Have you had thyroid lab work?
> 
> Once everything is optimized, then i would look into supplementation. Wellbutrin is not OTC but it's easy to get from indian pharma and it enhances dopaminergic neurotransmission and it's a nice mild drug.


 My Test levels have always been on a lower range. Below 300 ng/dl. Estrogen last time i got them checked were around 18ng/dl.

Sleep is fine. Thyroid level is perfect.

Can you please share more information on Wellbutrin. How to take it?. Doses?. When to take?. Any side effects that i should be aware of?


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> I need more background on your case. How high is your BP without any meds, do you suffer from anxiety/agitation/anger, is your BP problem only on an AAS cycle, and what issues did you get from running ramipril and amlodipine and what were your doses?
> 
> You have yet to try a beta blocker like metroprolol i would try that next first.
> 
> Alpha blockers like doxazosin are not commonly used.
> 
> March 2000, the Antihypertensive and Lipid Lowering Treatment to Prevent Heart Attack Trial (ALLHAT) study stopped its arm of the trial looking at alpha blockers, because doxazosin was less effective than a simple diuretic, and because patients on doxazosin had a 25% higher rate of cardiovascular disease and twice the rate of congestive heart failure as patients on diuretics.[1]


 Thank you for the reply.

Don't suffer from anxiety, agitation but Iam known as a bit of a anger person sometimes.

Blood pressure is around 140/90 + or - 5 points without AAS even on 500mg of test it's goes up to 150/95.

I have lost weight, upped my cardio and cleaned my diet up but my bp still doesn't drop much.

Regarding the other meds I have tried,

Amlodipine dose was 5mg and the sides was horrible. I felt really depressed, totally changed my way of thinking. I stopped after 6 weeks and it was like the black cloud what was hanging over me was going.

Ramipril dose was 5mg again, only issue with this was a horrible dry cough and the fact 5mg didn't touch my bp.

My Dr was going to put me on a diuretic but I seem to have a issue with my kidney function. When ever I have blood test it comes back low due to dehydration but I think this is because the blood test are always first in the morning when I haven't had a lot to drink. So with that been the case he chose to out me on alpha blockers.

But with the bit of reading I have done on them they don't seem to be very good, cant find any reviews off people on them. He has started me on 1mg and if I need to go up to 2mg after 7 days if my bp hasn't changed.

I will check tomorrow to see what it is.

Thanks again


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> I love Stan Efferding, great guy, he's another case for strength training and powerlifting to maximize bodybuilding potential. Mike O'Hearn as well.


 I've been reading a lot of his stuff recently. What a coincidence you mentioned you like/agree with him as that was going to be my exact question. The training points and rehab I 100% with, but what about his take on diet? Your very much a low fat / high carb man. But he is very much a high fat / high carb man and in fact says he will REDUCE carbs first when cutting and likes to keep fat in. He (imo) over exaggerates the nutrient density of read meat and suggests a heck of a lot of fat. Although he does provide evidence as to why he says all those fats are good for you.

I dunno I guess I'm just confused - would you disagree with him and replace all of his fats with carbs?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I'm interested into the AAS and receptors :

For exemple , someone taking 500mg test for 5 years without stopping , his receptors would be full right?
The person need to 'rest' his body , but can he rest his body/receptors by lowering the dose to 200mg for exemple ? or is it better to be off completely?


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> My Test levels have always been on a lower range. Below 300 ng/dl. Estrogen last time i got them checked were around 18ng/dl.
> 
> Sleep is fine. Thyroid level is perfect.
> 
> Can you please share more information on Wellbutrin. How to take it?. Doses?. When to take?. Any side effects that i should be aware of?


 That might be the cause of your issues low testosterone. It's usually one of the most common relieved symptoms once you start HRT. Energy and motivation come with optimal testosterone levels.

Your E2 is also on the low end, so you are borderline estrogen and testosterone deficient. It's better to remedy the issue than to throw a bandaid like a supplement or drug at the problem.

Have you considered HRT? I would fix the hormone first, because you might not need wellbutrin and having the low testosterone and E2 will have detrimental effects to your health.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> Don't suffer from anxiety, agitation but Iam known as a bit of a anger person sometimes.
> 
> Blood pressure is around 140/90 + or - 5 points without AAS even on 500mg of test it's goes up to 150/95.
> 
> I have lost weight, upped my cardio and cleaned my diet up but my bp still doesn't drop much.
> 
> Regarding the other meds I have tried,
> 
> Amlodipine dose was 5mg and the sides was horrible. I felt really depressed, totally changed my way of thinking. I stopped after 6 weeks and it was like the black cloud what was hanging over me was going.
> 
> Ramipril dose was 5mg again, only issue with this was a horrible dry cough and the fact 5mg didn't touch my bp.
> 
> My Dr was going to put me on a diuretic but I seem to have a issue with my kidney function. When ever I have blood test it comes back low due to dehydration but I think this is because the blood test are always first in the morning when I haven't had a lot to drink. So with that been the case he chose to out me on alpha blockers.
> 
> But with the bit of reading I have done on them they don't seem to be very good, cant find any reviews off people on them. He has started me on 1mg and if I need to go up to 2mg after 7 days if my bp hasn't changed.
> 
> I will check tomorrow to see what it is.
> 
> Thanks again


 He should try a beta blocker like metoprolol next. You need to get your BP under control for sure though, it will start to affect your heart and kidneys as the years go by.

I'm surprised he went straight to an alpha receptor antagonist next, he skipped a few other classes of common medications...


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> I've been reading a lot of his stuff recently. What a coincidence you mentioned you like/agree with him as that was going to be my exact question. The training points and rehab I 100% with, but what about his take on diet? Your very much a low fat / high carb man. But he is very much a high fat / high carb man and in fact says he will REDUCE carbs first when cutting and likes to keep fat in. He (imo) over exaggerates the nutrient density of read meat and suggests a heck of a lot of fat. Although he does provide evidence as to why he says all those fats are good for you.
> 
> I dunno I guess I'm just confused - would you disagree with him and replace all of his fats with carbs?


 Red meat is very nutrient dense for sure, it's highly underrated, tons of minerals, vitamins and protein and much more nutritious than any vegetable. Optimal fat intake would be somewhere between 30-50 g. Decent fat intake will increase HDL cholesterol and optimize endogenous testosterone for those not taking AAS. For bulking and cutting, i would keep fat lower and carb highest, but for regular maintenance, macro nutrient ratios are down to dietary preference.

I agree more with Mike O'Hearn on the carbs vs fat debate. Carbs are essential for maximum performance and i'm sure stan efferding makes sure he gets the minimum required to get results. The reason i keep fat low is because i can fit in more carbs and protein which are more filling and satisfying than fat and are the main building block and fuel for muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm interested into the AAS and receptors :
> 
> For exemple , someone taking 500mg test for 5 years without stopping , his receptors would be full right?
> The person need to 'rest' his body , but can he rest his body/receptors by lowering the dose to 200mg for exemple ? or is it better to be off completely?


 No, receptor talk is horse crap. Receptors and gene expression don't work that way. This is why men take some years to grow a full beard even with testosterone is high, the receptors need to be stimulated for a long time to achieve the full effect.

I don't agree with receptor non-sense, but it's good to give your body a break from the elevated hormone levels, suboptimal lipid profile and toxicity of certain compounds. Top level bodybuilders are running AAS year round, period. If receptor non-sense was true, they wouldn't be getting the results that they do.


----------



## Pancake'

Do you think Vitor Belfort would of been on much more than just TRT? That guy was an animal.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> No, receptor talk is horse crap. Receptors and gene expression don't work that way. This is why men take some years to grow a full beard even with testosterone is high, the receptors need to be stimulated for a long time to achieve the full effect.
> 
> I don't agree with receptor non-sense, but it's good to give your body a break from the elevated hormone levels, suboptimal lipid profile and toxicity of certain compounds. Top level bodybuilders are running AAS year round, period. If receptor non-sense was true, they wouldn't be getting the results that they do.


 thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Do you think Vitor Belfort would of been on much more than just TRT? That guy was an animal.


 This is something that always makes me laugh, that people think he was only on TRT. He was taking everything he can get his hands on. TRT doesn't make you cut and dry and ripped, performing like a 21 year old in his prime. People are insane who think that TRT can make you super human. TRT brings you to physiological levels of testosterone. Vitor looks like he loved himself some winstrol. He was still an animal, steroids don't make an athlete or great talent.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> This is something that always makes me laugh, that people think he was only on TRT. He was taking everything he can get his hands on. TRT doesn't make you cut and dry and ripped, performing like a 21 year old in his prime. People are insane who think that TRT can make you super human. TRT brings you to physiological levels of testosterone. Vitor looks like he loved himself some winstrol. He was still an animal, steroids don't make an athlete or great talent.


 Yeah, I was certainly very suspicious, that wasn't just test in the mix. Had the look didn't he, agree entirely, can't enhance skill that isn't there lol. Just many of these fighters, bring a great deal of excitement to the sport with the increased aggression and everything else. Johny Hendricks being another. Khabib should get blasting, if he already isn't, he would be ridiculous.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Yeah, I was certainly very suspicious, that wasn't just test in the mix. Had the look didn't he, agree entirely, can't enhance skill that isn't there lol. Just many of these fighters, bring a great deal of excitement to the sport with the increased aggression and everything else. Johny Hendricks being another. Khabib should get blasting, if he already isn't, he would be ridiculous.


 All these guys are on, it's part of any sport at the highest level. If you are interested in the topic watch the documentaries, "Bigger, stronger, faster" and "Icarus". They are available on netflix.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

After being to a physio with a six month long standing problem it's clear my upper back and rear delts need to be focused upon and less so chest. Common I would assume? (I've little spinal flex, upper traps are tight as hell and left shoulder has scar tissue and suchlike)

Should I do any chest work for the next three to four months as I prioritise this imbalance, or leave chest completely, do Flyes only or just go through the motions? My worry is that I address the upper back and rear delt issue along with posture and flexibity of the thoratic area, but worsen it or hinder it if I lift for chest. Natty I could do 150kg 1rm bench press aged 24 at 85kg bodyweight but couldnt row 60kg for reps at the time. Now it's more balance but the emphasis still needs to be back delts and shoulder health (face pulls) so wondering what the best approach in the short and long term is?


----------



## feelinfine

Are there any ill effects to crashing your prolactin levels?

Taking 0.5mg x 2 caber per week and it has tanked. Will try and split these tiny ass pills and take half the dose.

Also how long do I need to take caber for after my tren run is finished? All the way through pct?


----------



## gt4_ade

@ElChapo

Im competeing this Saturday currently running test tren mast at 50 100 100 eod, post show im looking at gaining maximum tissue

Im looking to run test e at 500mg

Npp at 300mg

Hgh at 6iu m/w/f split doses pre workout and pre bed

Novorapid at 5iu pre and post

Im looking to do this cycle for 8 weeks

Does this sound ok, is there anything you would add/subtract. Ai will be on hand but generally at 500mg yes my e2 are in range


----------



## Filthee

I've been doing low carb + intermittent fasting (doing LISS cardio 4x week in the mornings fasted) for the last 5 weeks and it's been helping me shed some weight before my holidays. What's the consensus on introducing carbs before I go? Last time, I went straight from low carbs to holiday carbs (damn you american portions) and blew up like a whale from all the water retention. Would introducing carbs back in my diet ahead of my holidays be of any benefit (going to be a lot more careful this time with what I eat on hols).


----------



## m575

Hi @ElChapo how accurate would you say finger pr**k tests are when it comes to getting blood results for test and e2 levels.


----------



## dbol Kid

@ElChapo

had bloods to try and control E2, mine is coming in at 85pg/ml and that is taking 450mg test e and 375mg tren a per week.

been on this dose for around 10 weeks now, I've been taking 60mg ralox ed, and been upping Adex, which I've been taking 1mg Adex ed for the last 4 weeks, gyno has pretty much gone which is most likely due to ralox as I've taken ralox from the start of cycle.

but surely 1mg adex ed should have E2 lower than what it is, it is ugl adex so may go onto pharma adex and test again.

although I have used pharma before and still struggled to get gyno down.

i do aramatise easy as I got gyno when just cruising on 200mg test e before


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

1/. Can T3 increase anxiety in prone anxiety person ? Can it give hand/feet tremors? and I know it's not the same pathway then Clen or Eph , but how/why does/can it give bad anxiety? and Is 25mcg enough to help fat loss ? a lot of people say 25mcg is like your body produce naturaly so it's useless but I'm not sure about that..

2/. Is it that important to take aromasin , raloxifen with fat ? I sometimes take it empty stomach and I don't know if it makes any differences but if it's proven that It does then I'll be more careful.

3/. Where is the best place to get gyno surgery ? I'm not sure you know about it but still asking we never know 

4/. Drug interaction between Raloxifen and T3? "*Raloxifene:* Combination can force TSH to become over productive, even in the presence of exo T3."


----------



## swole troll

spardaa said:


> I've been reading a lot of his stuff recently. What a coincidence you mentioned you like/agree with him as that was going to be my exact question. The training points and rehab I 100% with, but what about his take on diet? Your very much a low fat / high carb man. But he is very much a high fat / high carb man and in fact says he will REDUCE carbs first when cutting and likes to keep fat in. He (imo) over exaggerates the nutrient density of read meat and suggests a heck of a lot of fat. Although he does provide evidence as to why he says all those fats are good for you.
> 
> I dunno I guess I'm just confused - would you disagree with him and replace all of his fats with carbs?


 ive ran his vertical diet (or extremely close to) with the white rice, fresh chicken stock from bones, red meat, carrots, orange juice, eggs and full fat greek yogurt

he claims you get use to it and get hungry again every few hours then add another meal

im a big fan of stans work, i listen to any podcast or piece of information hes involved in but i can say for me personally that the above is utter nonsense 
i was stuffed as a pig and struggling to hit over 5500 calories despite the time i was running it my modest bulking calories were 6000

its obvious really, why tf would that bland list of food cause you to be hungry again in a few hours

IIFYM with a heavy focus on nutrient dense food but allowing for more cheat foods later in the day as not to spoil the taste buds for blander foods, minimal sugary carbs and then sink a pint of whole milk with each meal is the best method ive found for getting big and strong despite appetite dropping


----------



## spardaa

swole troll said:


> ive ran his vertical diet (or extremely close to) with the white rice, fresh chicken stock from bones, red meat, carrots, orange juice, eggs and full fat greek yogurt
> 
> he claims you get use to it and get hungry again every few hours then add another meal
> 
> im a big fan of stans work, i listen to any podcast or piece of information hes involved in but i can say for me personally that the above is utter nonsense
> i was stuffed as a pig and struggling to hit over 5500 calories despite the time i was running it my modest bulking calories were 6000
> 
> its obvious really, why tf would that bland list of food cause you to be hungry again in a few hours
> 
> IIFYM with a heavy focus on nutrient dense food but allowing for more cheat foods later in the day as not to spoil the taste buds for blander foods, minimal sugary carbs and then sink a pint of whole milk with each meal is the best method ive found for getting big and strong despite appetite dropping


 yeh just as much as I thought tbh. I do agree with a lot of what he says and I also like to listen to anything he puts out - so its good to hear from someone who has tried it.

Agree that "IIFYM with a heavy focus on nutrient dense food but allowing for more cheat foods" is the best way to get the calories in. Although one could argue the % of s**t vs clean food.

my best bulk was right before I don't my shoulder in a couple months ago. 3.5k clean cals + 500 cals of whatever I wanted, which most of the time was just Nutella/PB on my greek yoghurt + granola meal.


----------



## swole troll

spardaa said:


> yeh just as much as I thought tbh. I do agree with a lot of what he says and I also like to listen to anything he puts out - so its good to hear from someone who has tried it.
> 
> Agree that "IIFYM with a heavy focus on nutrient dense food but allowing for more cheat foods" is the best way to get the calories in. Although one could argue the % of s**t vs clean food.
> 
> my best bulk was right before I don't my shoulder in a couple months ago. 3.5k clean cals + 500 cals of whatever I wanted, which most of the time was just Nutella/PB on my greek yoghurt + granola meal.


 yes that is the issue with IIFYM is that some people go too far the other way and hit all their macros with fried food and sugar

to me it means max out on the clean foods whilst hunger is high (first 3-4 meals) then allow for the tastier stuff later in the day / evening if and when appetite starts to dip

good approach on the nutella added to the greek yog, thats often all it needs, just something to spruce up an otherwise clean meal
maybe a bit of sweet chilli sauce on your rice or a plate of regular chips with a nice steak burger, even a pizza isnt that bad when you break down that its just cheese and bread and we're only using it as a top up to hit the kcals, its not as if pizza base is the sole source of carbohydrate every day

sorry @ElChapo i just realized im hogging your thread a bit


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Are there any ill effects to crashing your prolactin levels?
> 
> Taking 0.5mg x 2 caber per week and it has tanked. Will try and split these tiny ass pills and take half the dose.
> 
> Also how long do I need to take caber for after my tren run is finished? All the way through pct?


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoprolactinemia

Caber doesn't treat tren gyno. If you got any gyno, puffiness, or lumps, run raloxifene after your cycle through your PCT and beyond until its one.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> After being to a physio with a six month long standing problem it's clear my upper back and rear delts need to be focused upon and less so chest. Common I would assume? (I've little spinal flex, upper traps are tight as hell and left shoulder has scar tissue and suchlike)
> 
> Should I do any chest work for the next three to four months as I prioritise this imbalance, or leave chest completely, do Flyes only or just go through the motions? My worry is that I address the upper back and rear delt issue along with posture and flexibity of the thoratic area, but worsen it or hinder it if I lift for chest. Natty I could do 150kg 1rm bench press aged 24 at 85kg bodyweight but couldnt row 60kg for reps at the time. Now it's more balance but the emphasis still needs to be back delts and shoulder health (face pulls) so wondering what the best approach in the short and long term is?


 I get this question a lot and i've had personal experience with this issue.

Keep hitting your chest, but for every set of direct chest work, do a set of face pulls for 8-15 reps. Gradually increase the weight on the face pulls to strengthen and balance out the pulling muscles that will balance out with the pressing muscles. The face pulls also give a very good stretch that will further help prevent nerve impingement and postural imbalances.

I used to get shoulder impingement issues everytime i hit bench seriously for a few months and would have to stop until it went away. After incorporating face pulls after every pressing workout, i have never had another issues with impingement or muscle imbalance. It's that effective. They will hit the rear delts and upper back as a bonus.

Example: You hit bench press for 3 sets of 225x15, at the end of your workout, you hit cable face pulls with 90 lbs for 15 reps for 3 sets.

Some great examples of form and technique below:


----------



## ElChapo

gt4_ade said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Im competeing this Saturday currently running test tren mast at 50 100 100 eod, post show im looking at gaining maximum tissue
> 
> Im looking to run test e at 500mg
> 
> Npp at 300mg
> 
> Hgh at 6iu m/w/f split doses pre workout and pre bed
> 
> Novorapid at 5iu pre and post
> 
> Im looking to do this cycle for 8 weeks
> 
> Does this sound ok, is there anything you would add/subtract. Ai will be on hand but generally at 500mg yes my e2 are in range


 You can run the GH once daily for convenience sake, but it's up to you.

Make sure the pre and post workout slin is consumed with some sugary carbs and protein like cereal w/ skim milk for best results.This will further increase igf-1 response and nutrient delivery to the muscles.

Bump the NPP to 500 mg while your at it for a cool 1 gram cycle. Make sure you're getting a minimum caloric surplus of 300-500 calories per day and getting stronger on ALL of your lifts. Throw in extra high rep/volume isolation exercises for lagging body parts.


----------



## ElChapo

Filthee said:


> I've been doing low carb + intermittent fasting (doing LISS cardio 4x week in the mornings fasted) for the last 5 weeks and it's been helping me shed some weight before my holidays. What's the consensus on introducing carbs before I go? Last time, I went straight from low carbs to holiday carbs (damn you american portions) and blew up like a whale from all the water retention. Would introducing carbs back in my diet ahead of my holidays be of any benefit (going to be a lot more careful this time with what I eat on hols).


 Our portions are quite ridiculous on the world stage, i can attest to that lol

If you don't mind doing some very light cardio through out your holiday ( which would have great general benefits to your health ) this will help stop the water retention as you will be burning off the excess carbs and sweating out water. You can some very light morning jogs for 30 minutes, monday/wednesday/friday. Your other option is being moderate with your carb intake during holiday.

Introducing the carbs early might help a tiny bit as your body adjusts, but the solutions above will have better results in my experience.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Hi @ElChapo how accurate would you say finger pr**k tests are when it comes to getting blood results for test and e2 levels.


 They are pretty accurate and close enough to venous tests. The research supports this as well as my own experience comparing labs with myself and friends of mine.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> had bloods to try and control E2, mine is coming in at 85pg/ml and that is taking 450mg test e and 375mg tren a per week.
> 
> been on this dose for around 10 weeks now, I've been taking 60mg ralox ed, and been upping Adex, which I've been taking 1mg Adex ed for the last 4 weeks, gyno has pretty much gone which is most likely due to ralox as I've taken ralox from the start of cycle.
> 
> but surely 1mg adex ed should have E2 lower than what it is, it is ugl adex so may go onto pharma adex and test again.
> 
> although I have used pharma before and still struggled to get gyno down.
> 
> i do aramatise easy as I got gyno when just cruising on 200mg test e before


 Is your E2 test done via ECLIA or LC/MS. The ECLIA test will detect trenbolone as E2. The LC/MS does not.

You're fortunate that your gyno responds to raloxifene during a tren cycle, some people need to drop the tren first.

I suspect your E2 blood test is ECLIA which is picking up tren as E2.

If not, then your adex quality is suspect or you just aromatize a lot.


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> They are pretty accurate and close enough to venous tests. The research supports this as well as my own experience comparing labs with myself and friends of mine.


 E2 results aside.....I'm not sure this test level is right for 500mg per week of sust surely lol


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1/. Can T3 increase anxiety in prone anxiety person ? Can it give hand/feet tremors? and I know it's not the same pathway then Clen or Eph , but how/why does/can it give bad anxiety? and Is 25mcg enough to help fat loss ? a lot of people say 25mcg is like your body produce naturaly so it's useless but I'm not sure about that..
> 
> 2/. Is it that important to take aromasin , raloxifen with fat ? I sometimes take it empty stomach and I don't know if it makes any differences but if it's proven that It does then I'll be more careful.
> 
> 3/. Where is the best place to get gyno surgery ? I'm not sure you know about it but still asking we never know
> 
> 4/. Drug interaction between Raloxifen and T3? "*Raloxifene:* Combination can force TSH to become over productive, even in the presence of exo T3."


 1. A big yes to anxiety/tremors for T3. These are two of the most common symptoms of hyperthyroidism. 25 mcg is about how much your body would make on it's own from conversion of T4 to T3. It's a good dose for keeping metabolism running during a cut when your body starts to ramp down T3 production. It won't really increase metabolism though.

2. It's not important but for optimal absorption, you would take both with fat. Absorption is increase by about 30% for both compounds with a fatty meal (at least 15 grams of fat), it will still work without eating it with fat though but absorption isn't as high.

3. Plastic surgeons, one who specializes in treating gynecomastia. The specialists will know the best techniques for retaining a masculine appearance and reducing scar tissue formation.

4. Not something i would worry about. Raloxifene can also impair T4 absorption, but what doesn't?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> ive ran his vertical diet (or extremely close to) with the white rice, fresh chicken stock from bones, red meat, carrots, orange juice, eggs and full fat greek yogurt
> 
> he claims you get use to it and get hungry again every few hours then add another meal
> 
> im a big fan of stans work, i listen to any podcast or piece of information hes involved in but i can say for me personally that the above is utter nonsense
> i was stuffed as a pig and struggling to hit over 5500 calories despite the time i was running it my modest bulking calories were 6000
> 
> its obvious really, why tf would that bland list of food cause you to be hungry again in a few hours
> 
> IIFYM with a heavy focus on nutrient dense food but allowing for more cheat foods later in the day as not to spoil the taste buds for blander foods, minimal sugary carbs and then sink a pint of whole milk with each meal is the best method ive found for getting big and strong despite appetite dropping


 This i agree with completely, being creative with your food while hitting your macros and calories optimizes diet adherence without sacrificing results.

Although Sugary carbs are part of my own personal bulking diets, usually throw in post-workout or as a dessert after dinner, but that's the beauty of it. You can customize to your own dietary preferences.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> yes that is the issue with IIFYM is that some people go too far the other way and hit all their macros with fried food and sugar
> 
> to me it means max out on the clean foods whilst hunger is high (first 3-4 meals) then allow for the tastier stuff later in the day / evening if and when appetite starts to dip
> 
> good approach on the nutella added to the greek yog, thats often all it needs, just something to spruce up an otherwise clean meal
> maybe a bit of sweet chilli sauce on your rice or a plate of regular chips with a nice steak burger, even a pizza isnt that bad when you break down that its just cheese and bread and we're only using it as a top up to hit the kcals, its not as if pizza base is the sole source of carbohydrate every day
> 
> sorry @ElChapo i just realized im hogging your thread a bit


 No worries, sharing of knowledge and ideas is what this thread is for.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> E2 results aside.....I'm not sure this test level is right for 500mg per week of
> View attachment 155019
> sust surely lol


 Looks like bunk testosterone. How close to your last injection was your finger pr**k test?


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> Looks like bunk testosterone. How close to your last injection was your finger pr**k test?


 Bunk testosterone?? With a level of 262? And a normal range of 7-31? Lol

Think you may have read it wrong mate

test was taken around 24 hours after jab.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

i had a blood test today and last week and everything is all good apart for my Globulin is at 17.3 last week and 17.9 today - range is 19 to 35 (UK measurements)

i have gone back over the past few years results and on average it sits at 23 - this is the first time it has ever been low.

of course its only a few points under the lower range but is this anything to worry about? is there anything that could influence Globulin and thus causing lower than average results?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo so 25mcg shouldn't make the person hyperthyroidism , so the person shouldn't get any side effects like tremors/shortness of breath etc?


----------



## dbol Kid

ElChapo said:


> Is your E2 test done via ECLIA or LC/MS. The ECLIA test will detect trenbolone as E2. The LC/MS does not.
> 
> You're fortunate that your gyno responds to raloxifene during a tren cycle, some people need to drop the tren first.
> 
> I suspect your E2 blood test is ECLIA which is picking up tren as E2.
> 
> If not, then your adex quality is suspect or you just aromatize a lot.


 I'm not sure which it is tbh, I had it done with medichecks online with finger pr**k.

the result was 314 pmol/L

prolactin came back at 1388 mIU/L also


----------



## stewedw

Faced pulls best with rope or another way? Than you for the advice


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> He should try a beta blocker like metoprolol next. You need to get your BP under control for sure though, it will start to affect your heart and kidneys as the years go by.
> 
> I'm surprised he went straight to an alpha receptor antagonist next, he skipped a few other classes of common medications...


 I have been on the Doxazosin for a week now at 1mg, I have just done my blood pressure it came in at 144/93 that was the average over 3 reading.

The Dr told me to up the dose to 2mg if 1mg didn't have a effect on the reading which it hasnt. I have made a appointment with the Dr to discuss a different med and I will mention the beta blockers see if he agrees.

Funny you should mention the effect on the heart high bp can have because Iam having on going test on my heart at the moment.

I started getting pains in my left side of my chest and pins and needles in my left arm about 8 weeks ago and since then I have had 4 ecg and Iam now booked in for a myocardial perfusion scan. The specialist doesn't seem to think the pain is my heart but he is covering all bases. He thinks it might be a muscular problem.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> Caber doesn't treat tren gyno. If you got any gyno, puffiness, or lumps, run raloxifene after your cycle through your PCT and beyond until its one.


 Luckily I am not prone to gyno, knock on wood. I take caber on cycle because well that is what I've been told to do as a precaution.

So if caber doesn't do anything for tren gyno then why do we take it?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo Have a question regarding different anabolics and comparing their effects on long term muscle building. People categorise anabolics into bulking and cutting down to their levels of aromatisation mainly. If comparing anavar and anadrol for example, sure anadrol will give you more 'mass' due to more mineral/water/glycogen retention but in terms of lean tissue built if you ran 50mg var vs 50mg anadrol and come off after 8 weeks, would the same amount of tissue be built considering both provide a more anabolic environment? (assuming diet and training are identical for both runs) Another example would be comparing deca vs equipoise, deca would add more size temporarily but once you come off the hormone and the water weight dissipated, would you be left with the same lean tissue as EQ? Or are there other factors which play a role in terms of muscle building? Seems healthier/more aesthetic in my eye to run low aromatisation drugs on a bulk to keep weight from fluctuating alongside blood pressure and all the other negatives that come along with water retention.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Bunk testosterone?? With a level of 262? And a normal range of 7-31? Lol
> 
> Think you may have read it wrong mate
> 
> test was taken around 24 hours after jab.


 You're right, i read your results in American units when i reviewed your post.

You are likely seeing high levels due to the short esters in the sustanon spiking.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i had a blood test today and last week and everything is all good apart for my Globulin is at 17.3 last week and 17.9 today - range is 19 to 35 (UK measurements)
> 
> i have gone back over the past few years results and on average it sits at 23 - this is the first time it has ever been low.
> 
> of course its only a few points under the lower range but is this anything to worry about? is there anything that could influence Globulin and thus causing lower than average results?


 Most common reasons are malnutrition; low calorie/low protein. Also IBS, digestive issues.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo so 25mcg shouldn't make the person hyperthyroidism , so the person shouldn't get any side effects like tremors/shortness of breath etc?


 Typically not unless you are sensitive.

Anxious individuals tend to be more sensitive to stimulants and thyroid hormones due to genetics.


----------



## ElChapo

dbol Kid said:


> I'm not sure which it is tbh, I had it done with medichecks online with finger pr**k.
> 
> the result was 314 pmol/L
> 
> prolactin came back at 1388 mIU/L also


 Most likely ECLIA, i have seen a few individuals get elevated prolactin on tren.

The E2 test inaccurate while on tren unless its a LC MS blood test.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Faced pulls best with rope or another way? Than you for the advice


 I like ropes and cables the best, you get the best stretch and ROM.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> I have been on the Doxazosin for a week now at 1mg, I have just done my blood pressure it came in at 144/93 that was the average over 3 reading.
> 
> The Dr told me to up the dose to 2mg if 1mg didn't have a effect on the reading which it hasnt. I have made a appointment with the Dr to discuss a different med and I will mention the beta blockers see if he agrees.
> 
> Funny you should mention the effect on the heart high bp can have because Iam having on going test on my heart at the moment.
> 
> I started getting pains in my left side of my chest and pins and needles in my left arm about 8 weeks ago and since then I have had 4 ecg and Iam now booked in for a myocardial perfusion scan. The specialist doesn't seem to think the pain is my heart but he is covering all bases. He thinks it might be a muscular problem.


 You were smart to get checked out, the doc might just be saying that not to worry you, they do it all the time.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Luckily I am not prone to gyno, knock on wood. I take caber on cycle because well that is what I've been told to do as a precaution.
> 
> So if caber doesn't do anything for tren gyno then why do we take it?


 People think prolactin causes tren gyno, it does alleviate some of the mood and sexual symptoms that tren make you prone to and some individuals do get elevated prolactin.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo Have a question regarding different anabolics and comparing their effects on long term muscle building. People categorise anabolics into bulking and cutting down to their levels of aromatisation mainly. If comparing anavar and anadrol for example, sure anadrol will give you more 'mass' due to more mineral/water/glycogen retention but in terms of lean tissue built if you ran 50mg var vs 50mg anadrol and come off after 8 weeks, would the same amount of tissue be built considering both provide a more anabolic environment? (assuming diet and training are identical for both runs) Another example would be comparing deca vs equipoise, deca would add more size temporarily but once you come off the hormone and the water weight dissipated, would you be left with the same lean tissue as EQ? Or are there other factors which play a role in terms of muscle building? Seems healthier/more aesthetic in my eye to run low aromatisation drugs on a bulk to keep weight from fluctuating alongside blood pressure and all the other negatives that come along with water retention.


 Yeah the illusion that wet drugs give more mass is a myth because once you cut down and drop them the water comes off.

Tren, winstrol and tren are potent muscle builders but they keep you dry and hard. Many people dont have a good eye for quality muscle shape and just think size is size. Everyone has their preference though.

I dont touch dbol because of proness to gyno and lackluster results, but others get fantastic strength gains on it. It's down to personal preference and individual results. I personally dont like the bloof look, if you have a lot of muscle, you will look big even when you are lean.

More importantly, training, diet and finally genetics drive muscle growth.


----------



## jointhecrazy

Mr sir @ElChapo sir

What's your view on long term ralox use in men, I have pubertal gyno that flares up slightly if I don't watch e levels and always have puffy nipples, i can control the flare ups but now I am getting leaner and leaner the puffy nipples are becoming more noticeable

I am thinking a long run of ralox on my next cruise may kill off the estrogenic fatty tissue causing the puffyness as well as rid myself of the gyno once and for all as I have heard this done with a lot of success with long term runs of nolvadex - I never cracked on with the nolva due to the sides associated but from what Ive read ralox seems less of an issue when it comes to sides

Would value your insight massively mate

Thanks


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Is it possible that hair loss from AAS use , can be revesible and can grow back?

And what Is the worst for the hair thinning , 200mg mast or 200mg test?


----------



## Pancake'

What's your take on Bosweilla Frankincense Oil? Seems to be a number of benefits.

Thoughts on Ashwagandha and supplementing Melatonin as a sleep aid?

Any advice on tanning, not something I'm particularly familiar with, but I tan easily, what would be a good amount of MT2 to start with, how often should I hit a bed in conjunction of MT2 use.

I notice sometimes, after continuous use of mild pre workouts or something like taking in fruit smoothies, lots of sugars, I tend to experience, left sided chest irritation/pain, it can concern me time to time, but I just brush it off. Any ideas?

Can sugar be detrimental to overall health, heart health? I try and keep it to 80-100g, but sometimes creep into 150g+ territory. should it be limited, it's pretty demonised of today.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is it possible that hair loss from AAS use , can be revesible and can grow back?
> 
> And what Is the worst for the hair thinning , 200mg mast or 200mg test?


 Some reversal has been seen, nizoral can thicken hair back up a little bit but once it's gone, it's very hard to bring it back.

The future of hair loss prevention and reversal is going to be in gene therapy and stem cell research. In a few decades we should have some answers.

Masteron is notorious for thinning the hair line, testosterone within physiological amounts like 200 mg will not be as bad.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your take on Bosweilla Frankincense Oil? Seems to be a number of benefits.
> 
> Thoughts on Ashwagandha and supplementing Melatonin as a sleep aid?
> 
> Any advice on tanning, not something I'm particularly familiar with, but I tan easily, what would be a good amount of MT2 to start with, how often should I hit a bed in conjunction of MT2 use.
> 
> I notice sometimes, after continuous use of mild pre workouts or something like taking in fruit smoothies, lots of sugars, I tend to experience, left sided chest irritation/pain, it can concern me time to time, but I just brush it off. Any ideas?
> 
> Can sugar be detrimental to overall health, heart health? I try and keep it to 80-100g, but sometimes creep into 150g+ territory. should it be limited, it's pretty demonised of today.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 No idea about scent oils and the like

A lot of people love ashwagandha and it does work, melotonin can help a lot as well and very mild. The best cure for sleep issues is getting up early, staying busy all day and throwing in some cardio earlier in the day. Your body will beg for sleep. Magnesium can also have a small benefit sleep and relaxation, especially magnesium glycinate.

200-300 mcg might do the trick for you, some people need very little sun exposure while using it. I wouldn't know how often you would have to hit the tanning bed because i don't know how you respond as an individual, you need to experiment and find out.

Sugar shouldn't be causing any kind of heart issue or side effect acutely, mild pre workout might be causing angina through the stimulant effect. What is your resting heart rate and BP like usually?

Don't worry about overall sugar intake, just eat it in moderation and keep your body fat low and your activity levels high. Active individuals don't get the same negative response to health markers as sedentary people when it comes to sugar and fat intake. Enjoy your desserts and sweets, but in moderation as they were intended and always do cardio.

A person who lifts weights and does regular cardio will have muscles that are able to burn and store extra sugar, this creates a protective effect against diabetes and metabolic syndrome.


----------



## ElChapo

jointhecrazy said:


> Mr sir @ElChapo sir
> 
> What's your view on long term ralox use in men, I have pubertal gyno that flares up slightly if I don't watch e levels and always have puffy nipples, i can control the flare ups but now I am getting leaner and leaner the puffy nipples are becoming more noticeable
> 
> I am thinking a long run of ralox on my next cruise may kill off the estrogenic fatty tissue causing the puffyness as well as rid myself of the gyno once and for all as I have heard this done with a lot of success with long term runs of nolvadex - I never cracked on with the nolva due to the sides associated but from what Ive read ralox seems less of an issue when it comes to sides
> 
> Would value your insight massively mate
> 
> Thanks


 What is the longest time you have ever run it continuously and what were you taking at the time?

Ralox is much more mild than nolva and works better for gynecomastia. Nolva can cause mood issues, brain fog, libido problems etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo Have a question regarding different anabolics and comparing their effects on long term muscle building. People categorise anabolics into bulking and cutting down to their levels of aromatisation mainly. If comparing anavar and anadrol for example, sure anadrol will give you more 'mass' due to more mineral/water/glycogen retention but in terms of lean tissue built if you ran 50mg var vs 50mg anadrol and come off after 8 weeks, would the same amount of tissue be built considering both provide a more anabolic environment? (assuming diet and training are identical for both runs) Another example would be comparing deca vs equipoise, deca would add more size temporarily but once you come off the hormone and the water weight dissipated, would you be left with the same lean tissue as EQ? Or are there other factors which play a role in terms of muscle building? Seems healthier/more aesthetic in my eye to run low aromatisation drugs on a bulk to keep weight from fluctuating alongside blood pressure and all the other negatives that come along with water retention.


 To add to this

I agree with you that there seems to be no benefit to walking around water bound, there's the good ol broscience that states water logging oneself on wet compounds will provide "extra cushioning for the joints" and increase strength. I've been my strongest when i've been dry and lean, i lose a few reps after cutting down for a while but the lean tissue and strength is still there. Many strength athletes like powerlifters and olympic weightlifters maintain record breaking strength while staying very lean (Stan Efferding, Mike o hearn, Pyros Dimas, Jesse Norris, Lü Xiaojun) and many bodybuilders stay very lean and dry year round while adding slabs of muscle tissue.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo this has probably been asked in this thread and I asked on another but you may of missed it

whats you thoughts/opinion on mk677? Have you used yourself, at what dose and is it effective

does it compare at all to say a low dose of hgh say 2iu ed?

Ive been reading on it and like the sounds of it as in better sleep, faster recovery but the increased appetite and water bloat puts me off a little

cheers

@dtlv what's your views on this sarm mate?


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> You're right, i read your results in American units when i reviewed your post.
> 
> You are likely seeing high levels due to the short esters in the sustanon spiking.


 What would be the best time to test the levels for a better average?

Or would it be better injecting more frequently with sust even though it's usually seen not to matter.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Some reversal has been seen, nizoral can thicken hair back up a little bit but once it's gone, it's very hard to bring it back.
> 
> The future of hair loss prevention and reversal is going to be in gene therapy and stem cell research. In a few decades we should have some answers.
> 
> Masteron is notorious for thinning the hair line, testosterone within physiological amounts like 200 mg will not be as bad.


 Ok thanks , I m taking 200mg test and 200mg mast atm and hair thinning bad.

I'm stopping the mast today , but I was thinking of getting to the 300-350mg test instead.

I love mast but I never cared about my hair line until now because I can see my scalp on the sides , totally sucks.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo this has probably been asked in this thread and I asked on another but you may of missed it
> 
> whats you thoughts/opinion on mk677? Have you used yourself, at what dose and is it effective
> 
> does it compare at all to say a low dose of hgh say 2iu ed?
> 
> Ive been reading on it and like the sounds of it as in better sleep, faster recovery but the increased appetite and water bloat puts me off a little
> 
> cheers
> 
> @dtlv what's your views on this sarm mate?


 GH itself is overrated for most people's goals. I don't get too excited aboug mk677 and have not used it.

There are better ways to tackle poor quality sleep.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> What would be the best time to test the levels for a better average?
> 
> Or would it be better injecting more frequently with sust even though it's usually seen not to matter.


 What's your injection frequency?

You can test half way or at the day of injection before you inject.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Ok thanks , I m taking 200mg test and 200mg mast atm and hair thinning bad.
> 
> I'm stopping the mast today , but I was thinking of getting to the 300-350mg test instead.
> 
> I love mast but I never cared about my hair line until now because I can see my scalp on the sides , totally sucks.


 Masteron is notorious for scalping people.

300 mg of testosterone will be pretty much as effective as 200/200 mast test.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Masteron is notorious for scalping people.
> 
> 300 mg of testosterone will be pretty much as effective as 200/200 mast test.


 when you say 300mg test will be as effective as 200/200 , you mean effective on the hair loss?

and which cycle would you consider to limit the hair loss? small test (300mg) + primo or DHB?


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> What's your injection frequency?
> 
> You can test half way or at the day of injection before you inject.


 Once a week at the minute.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Once a week at the minute.


 You can measure 3-4 days post injection or on day 7 right before your injection. Sustanon can be all over the place though. You will be fine with every 3 days or once a week.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> when you say 300mg test will be as effective as 200/200 , you mean effective on the hair loss?
> 
> and which cycle would you consider to limit the hair loss? small test (300mg) + primo or DHB?


 No effective for performance enhancement. Masteron doesn't do that much on it's own. It's a mild polisher, not very anabolic either.

Stick to NPP. You can do 150 NPP and 150 test propionate and go from there.


----------



## Pancake'

What's the best hangover cure Elchapo?

What do you eat/consume, when feeling shitty, almost flu like symptoms etc?


----------



## Jordan08

Pancake' said:


> What's the best hangover cure Elchapo?
> 
> What do you eat/consume, when feeling shitty, almost flu like symptoms etc?


 Food rich in Potassium and hydrate well yourself


----------



## lewdylewd

Pancake' said:


> What's the best hangover cure Elchapo?
> 
> What do you eat/consume, when feeling shitty, almost flu like symptoms etc?


 2 Valium and a fry up with a glass bottle of Irn Bru.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's the best hangover cure Elchapo?
> 
> What do you eat/consume, when feeling shitty, almost flu like symptoms etc?


 Strong coffee in the morning and have some pedialyte or electrolyte drink through out the day.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Food rich in Potassium and hydrate well yourself


 Yeah, potatoes and bananas + pedialyte will restore electrolytes very fast. I also recommend magnesium citrate if you aren't already taking it. Don't avoid salt either, you need it to hold the water in your body and cells and it's essential to proper hydration.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, potatoes and bananas + pedialyte will restore electrolytes very fast. I also recommend magnesium citrate if you aren't already taking it. Don't avoid salt either, you need it to hold the water in your body and cells and it's essential to proper hydration.


 Do you recommend adding salt to foods or the salt that's already in foods. I've always avoided it because it can cause high bp


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Hey, i got Q for you, ive got one more comptetition wich came up all of a sudden, day after.my last one i found out blah blah, so its 4 weeks after my last one so i decided to go for it..

Im now 18d out, ive decided to throw in clen few days ago, not much 40mcg maxx.. im pretty mild on stimulans, ive used lik 1/4 ephedrine..

So, ive got Balkan 40mcg pills plan was, 20mcg x7days,30x7days,40x7days..

thing is, firs 20hit me pretty good, second, didnt, third meh, 4th hit me again like crazy, might it be that the clen isnt really evenly distributed trought the pill, ive even read somewhere that when you split pills that are mcgs, you should disolve them in liquid and than dose from syrindge..ive read it when i searched something about thyroid medicines..


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Jonk891 said:


> Do you recommend adding salt to foods or the salt that's already in foods. I've always avoided it because it can cause high bp


 If you eat lot of potassium than yes, imo, especially if you have salt in grinder, few grinds over foods wont hurt, unless.ofc if you use lots of condiments that contain lots of sodium, like hot sauce or soy sauce, wich have lots of sodium in them allready.. dont go crazy on salt but if you are taking in lots of potassium, magnesium and C vitamin i advise to take care that you take.in edequate amount of salt too, because youre.flushing your body..and also since.its.hot now, you could throw even some.taurine supps, its also a mineral and.its dirt cheap..i started clen few days ago and.i supplement with 4g taurine, 1g potassium a day, on top of the fact i eat 750grams of asparagus a day and lots of cellery and stuff.. it prevents cramps..low taurine can lead to cramping.too..


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on IGF des and LR3

does it have any benefit to muscle building, recovery ect?

if so how would you best go about dosing


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> There are better ways to tackle poor quality sleep.


 Like?

My sleep has been awful for years now, long before taking steroids. When I say awful I mean I usually sleep well from 10pm to half 1, wake up for a wee, and then wake pretty much every hour until I get up at 5am.

Recently I started taking about 10mg of CBD oil, melatonin and 200mg of 5-HTP. To be honest, I cant really tell the difference.

Even when I take Tren, there's no noticeable difference in my sleep :huh:


----------



## Abc987

MrBishi said:


> Like?
> 
> My sleep has been awful for years now, long before taking steroids. When I say awful I mean I usually sleep well from 10pm to half 1, wake up for a wee, and then wake pretty much every hour until I get up at 5am.
> 
> Recently I started taking about 10mg of CBD oil, melatonin and 200mg of 5-HTP. To be honest, I cant really tell the difference.
> 
> Even when I take Tren, there's no noticeable difference in my sleep :huh:


 I'm exactly the same mate and I've tried everything

I'm up @4.30am and gym for 6, 1 hours weights 15-20 mins Liss x5 days per week. I'm on my feet all day and average between20-25k steps. So by the end of the day I'm knackered.

Getting to sleep isn't a problem it's staying a sleep. My mind is always thinking about something which doesn't help at all

Tried every otc med and nothing apart from prescription meds work

think im slowly getting used to the 5 hours broken sleep I have now


----------



## JUICE1

Abc987 said:


> I'm exactly the same mate and I've tried everything
> 
> I'm up @4.30am and gym for 6, 1 hours weights 15-20 mins Liss x5 days per week. I'm on my feet all day and average between20-25k steps. So by the end of the day I'm knackered.
> 
> Getting to sleep isn't a problem it's staying a sleep. My mind is always thinking about something which doesn't help at all
> 
> Tried every otc med and nothing apart from prescription meds work
> 
> think im slowly getting used to the 5 hours broken sleep I have now


 Have you tried meditation? Not that I'm experienced in it but regular meditation and learning how to clear your mind should be very beneficial. It sounds like your mind is never rested from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep..


----------



## supertesty

@ElChapo insulin stop fat oxydation but in a caloric deficit, is takin exogenous slin slow down the burning fat process ? i would like to take slin pre-wo with intrashake.

2-What d you think about seo and do you think there are better alternatives to bring up laging body part ?


----------



## Abc987

JUICE1 said:


> Have you tried meditation? Not that I'm experienced in it but regular meditation and learning how to clear your mind should be very beneficial. It sounds like your mind is never rested from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep..


 No mate I haven't.

Mir all started a few months ago when I was very very stressed at work and working stupid hours! I went on holiday and after a few days everything was fine again (obviously very relaxed and enjoying the beers and no worries). Got home and within 2 days was back to how I was before but this time no stress.

Not is my mind though as it'll wake for a piss and start thinking about stupid things like turfing the garden etc, can't help it

zopiclone knowcked me out and I have quite a few but don't wanna go that route


----------



## DORIAN

El chapo, what's your opinion on nac supplementation, when not on cycle, say when going on weekend binges, holidays etc, useful or not? Thanks


----------



## Abc987

DORIAN said:


> El chapo, what's your opinion on nac supplementation, when not on cycle, say when going on weekend binges, holidays etc, useful or not? Thanks


 For the price of it I just run year round now 1200 ed split! Can't do any harm


----------



## DORIAN

Abc987 said:


> For the price of it I just run year round now 1200 ed split! Can't do any harm


 Cheers mate

, but that's the thing you think somthing can't do no harm then it does ☺


----------



## Abc987

DORIAN said:


> Cheers mate
> 
> , but that's the thing you think somthing can't do no harm then it does ☺


 Not something like nac. Thing is I B&c and still like a good drink every now and then (this weekend sat and sun I got smashed) so like to think I'm doing something to help lol

summer is here now and I'm due back on in the next couple of weeks too


----------



## pma111

Would hcg alone (with an AI when required) itself boost sperm count or must it always be combined with the far more expensive hmg for any sizeable results (no pun intended).

Out of interest...Is hcg of any benefit when using hmg as hmg seems to cover lh and fsh so unsure why extra hcg would help? Or does hcg increase lh/test far more then hmg does?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Do you recommend adding salt to foods or the salt that's already in foods. I've always avoided it because it can cause high bp


 Salt isn't all bad and usual recommendations are too low. Unless you have a specific genetic sensitivity to salt induced hypertension, don't try to avoid salt.

Try to instead eat a balanced diet with all the important electrolytes or supplement any deficiencies. Potatoes and bananas are rich in potassium, almonds/cashews/nuts are rich in magnesium, we get plenty of sodium in ours diets so that shouldnt be a problem. Calcium in dairy/cheese/yogurts,

other minerals: zinc and iron from red meat/oysters/clams

If these foods aren't a part of your diet, just throw a good supplement in. Stick to citrates, chelates and avoid oxides and sulfates. (zinc/megnsium oxide/sulfate)


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Hey, i got Q for you, ive got one more comptetition wich came up all of a sudden, day after.my last one i found out blah blah, so its 4 weeks after my last one so i decided to go for it..
> 
> Im now 18d out, ive decided to throw in clen few days ago, not much 40mcg maxx.. im pretty mild on stimulans, ive used lik 1/4 ephedrine..
> 
> So, ive got Balkan 40mcg pills plan was, 20mcg x7days,30x7days,40x7days..
> 
> thing is, firs 20hit me pretty good, second, didnt, third meh, 4th hit me again like crazy, might it be that the clen isnt really evenly distributed trought the pill, ive even read somewhere that when you split pills that are mcgs, you should disolve them in liquid and than dose from syrindge..ive read it when i searched something about thyroid medicines..


 UGL drugs are hit or miss in terms of dosing and consistency. When you use indian or US pharma there are strict standards in the manufacturing process for these medications.

I wouldn't go as far as dissolving the medications in solution, that's hogwash. Maybe stick to the 20 mg and don't go any higher. I always recommend indian pharma ancillaries over UGL if you can source them and never touch "research grade" those are the lowest quality on average.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on IGF des and LR3
> 
> does it have any benefit to muscle building, recovery ect?
> 
> if so how would you best go about dosing


 These peps and proteins have some nice potential for muscle recovery/wound healing in athletes and bodybuilders, but i would be conservative in expecting any overt muscle growth enhancement. I don't have any personal experience with either, but there is some cool research showing some interesting effects rodents. It's one of those things i would experiment with and share results with the community.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Like?
> 
> My sleep has been awful for years now, long before taking steroids. When I say awful I mean I usually sleep well from 10pm to half 1, wake up for a wee, and then wake pretty much every hour until I get up at 5am.
> 
> Recently I started taking about 10mg of CBD oil, melatonin and 200mg of 5-HTP. To be honest, I cant really tell the difference.
> 
> Even when I take Tren, there's no noticeable difference in my sleep :huh:


 Do you feel rested or function okay with minimal sleep? Many people have genetics that make them require a lot less sleep than average without any detrimental effects to their health.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I'm exactly the same mate and I've tried everything
> 
> I'm up @4.30am and gym for 6, 1 hours weights 15-20 mins Liss x5 days per week. I'm on my feet all day and average between20-25k steps. So by the end of the day I'm knackered.
> 
> Getting to sleep isn't a problem it's staying a sleep. My mind is always thinking about something which doesn't help at all
> 
> Tried every otc med and nothing apart from prescription meds work
> 
> think im slowly getting used to the 5 hours broken sleep I have now


 If you function and feel well off 5 hours of broken sleep, there's nothing you need to do. We don't all need 8-10 hours of sleep contrary to popular belief, a ton of research supports that many individuals need a lot less sleep for optimal health and well-being, this is a very genetic thing.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> El chapo, what's your opinion on nac supplementation, when not on cycle, say when going on weekend binges, holidays etc, useful or not? Thanks


 It's a nice insurance, especially for alcohol and partying. NAC fortifies and replaces your liver stores of glutathione, a powerful endogenous anti-oxidant that gets depleted when your liver is trying to filter out a lot of bad stuff.

This is how acetaminophen induced liver toxicity happens and NAC is actually a medical antidote for overdose of acetaminophen, the brand name is mucomyst but it's just NAC.


----------



## ElChapo

supertesty said:


> @ElChapo insulin stop fat oxydation but in a caloric deficit, is takin exogenous slin slow down the burning fat process ? i would like to take slin pre-wo with intrashake.
> 
> 2-What d you think about seo and do you think there are better alternatives to bring up laging body part ?


 No, because when even though you might be increasing fat accumulation, the negative energy balance will have your body burning off that energy before it gets stored or shortly afterwards. Caloric deficit will lead to fat loss no matter what, period. You can take the slin on a cut with no detriment to fat loss.

SEO is a nice tool for pros but i wouldn't mess with it for amateur and recreational bodybuilders. It has a bad name due to the clowns who abuse it and balloon their muscle bellies to comical proportion. I find that large volume injections have an SEO like effect when injected regularly to the same spot. (3-5 cc)


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> For the price of it I just run year round now 1200 ed split! Can't do any harm


 It's not a bad supplement to have in a stack. There are some interesting effects like reducing hair eating behavior or something a long those lines (compulsive hair eating disorder i think)

The reason it smells like farts/sulfur/eggs is because cysteine molecule is rich in elemental sulfur.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Would hcg alone (with an AI when required) itself boost sperm count or must it always be combined with the far more expensive hmg for any sizeable results (no pun intended).
> 
> Out of interest...Is hcg of any benefit when using hmg as hmg seems to cover lh and fsh so unsure why extra hcg would help? Or does hcg increase lh/test far more then hmg does?


 HCG can increase sperm count for sure, it's been documented in the scientific literature and is one of the treatments used by fertility doctors. One is better off using clomiphene or HMG if possible, as these will stimulate/simulate natural LH/FSH.

HMG does it better, HCG only partially mimicks the gonadotropic effect of LH/FSH and mostly that of LH, i believe it's not as effective an analogue as follicle stimulating hormone. (important for full sperm production)


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo What are your thoughts on refeeds when cutting? Apart from feeling good and getting a good workout, how does someone benefit from a refeed? Also, how often should they be done if at all?


----------



## Abc987

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo What are your thoughts on refeeds when cutting? Apart from feeling good and getting a good workout, how does someone benefit from a refeed? Also, how often should they be done if at all?


 A once a week refeed meal or even day, cheat day of eating what I like has only done good!

Its keeps metabolism up, gives you something to look forward to and keeps me on track. Dieting is hard enough, without I doubt I'd last

I can add 5lbs on a cheat day (normally a sat or sun) but by the following Friday I'd of lost that 5lbs + another 1-2lbs. Most would be water weight and it's gone within 2-3 days


----------



## h3ndy

Abc987 said:


> A once a week refeed meal or even day, cheat day of eating what I like has only done good!
> 
> Its keeps metabolism up, gives you something to look forward to and keeps me on track. Dieting is hard enough, without I doubt I'd last
> 
> I can add 5lbs on a cheat day (normally a sat or sun) but by the following Friday I'd of lost that 5lbs + another 1-2lbs. Most would be water weight and it's gone within 2-3 days


 Totally agree, this is what I do and it works wonders.

A cheat meal or day once a week is an absolute must for long term healthy eating, there's no way anyone could eat 100% clean 7 days a week for months on end.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi just wondering what you recommend post DNP to restore glycogen levels quickly.

Some people say you should carb load, others not, do you know what's best?

Thanks in advance


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> HCG can increase sperm count for sure, it's been documented in the scientific literature and is one of the treatments used by fertility doctors. One is better off using clomiphene or HMG if possible, as these will stimulate/simulate natural LH/FSH.
> 
> HMG does it better, HCG only partially mimicks the gonadotropic effect of LH/FSH and mostly that of LH, i believe it's not as effective an analogue as follicle stimulating hormone. (important for full sperm production)


 how would you fertility protocol look for someone who had been shutdown for years with low sperm count ?

ive always steered people toward an HCG and HMG on alternate days protocol whilst dropping all AAS 
continue until partner is pregnant

wonder if there is anything you would add, perhaps OTC supps or other meds ?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo What are your thoughts on refeeds when cutting? Apart from feeling good and getting a good workout, how does someone benefit from a refeed? Also, how often should they be done if at all?


 Refeeds are very important the leaner you get, not just for feeling good, performance, and muscle fullness but because they upregulate your metabolism by increase leptin, T3, and other hormones that are gradually decreased on a caloric deficit.

Once you hit 13% body fat you should start looking into refeeds. Those are higher bodyfat levels will have a lot of leptin and won't really need them. If you keeps your carbs high through out your cut, you also won't need them as often.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> A once a week refeed meal or even day, cheat day of eating what I like has only done good!
> 
> Its keeps metabolism up, gives you something to look forward to and keeps me on track. Dieting is hard enough, without I doubt I'd last
> 
> I can add 5lbs on a cheat day (normally a sat or sun) but by the following Friday I'd of lost that 5lbs + another 1-2lbs. Most would be water weight and it's gone within 2-3 days


 Yeah, a lot of time a refeed will actually kickstart weightloss again, this is called a woosh. A lot of time your body holds water in the place of the fat you already burned off due to stress hormones and other factors brought on by prolonged dieting. The refeed will make you drop this water many times and kickstart fat loss again.

The problem is a lot of guys lose their s**t on a refeed and go on a binging frenzy and lose weeks of fat loss progress in days. The refeed should be limited to no more than two days of the weeks and no more than 10% of your current estimated TDEE.

If you've been cutting for +3 months, it's good to take a one week diet break to rest your body and mind. This consists of not counting calories at all and loosening up your diet, but you still need discipline.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi just wondering what you recommend post DNP to restore glycogen levels quickly.
> 
> Some people say you should carb load, others not, do you know what's best?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Two day carb refeed, 10% surplus of your estimated TDEE. Keep fat very low.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> how would you fertility protocol look for someone who had been shutdown for years with low sperm count ?
> 
> ive always steered people toward an HCG and HMG on alternate days protocol whilst dropping all AAS
> continue until partner is pregnant
> 
> wonder if there is anything you would add, perhaps OTC supps or other meds ?


 On the OTC side, zinc/copper would be very important. This is one of the most important minerals for fertility and sperm health.

Optional: D-Aspartic acid, ashwagandha, and L-Carnitine all have very good effects on sperm motility, quality and count.

If you have access to HMG, i would blast it for 12-24 weeks(75-150 iu x 3 pw) solo then switch to 12 weeks of clomiphene at 50-100 mg until conception. For best results, you would not touch any AAS during this time. Viagra/cialis might help if you have issues with erections during this treatment. Ideally, one would have ran HCG or HMG through out their blasting and cruising for best results. You must give this protocol at least 6 months for best results. (You can substitute hmg for hcg at 1,000-3000 iu per week)

Most importantly, you MUST track your partners ovulation cycle and fertility window. Even ultra-potent sperm will not conceive if a female is not in her fertile period. There are a lot of very good mobile apps for this, and it's essential to time sex within the fertility window, and "saving up" is a good idea. Sperm quality is better when you don't ejaculate everyday.

As for triptorelin, there's some potential here but we don't have enough data. Typically, what i stated above will get favorable results for most people. Some guys already had very poor fertility prior to running any AAS, and AAS extinguishes what little they had naturally. At that point, IVF is a great option.


----------



## ElChapo

h3ndy said:


> Totally agree, this is what I do and it works wonders.
> 
> A cheat meal or day once a week is an absolute must for long term healthy eating, there's no way anyone could eat 100% clean 7 days a week for months on end.


 I recommend throwing in "cheat foods" whenever you feel like it. Just count it into your macros. A lot of these cheat foods have favorable macronutrient ratios. Pizza and burgers have a ton of protein, just make sure you account for the calories and stay within your deficit. I would always avoid fries and milkshakes, but personally, i don't find them enjoyable and the macros are absolute garbage.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, a lot of time a refeed will actually kickstart weightloss again, this is called a woosh. A lot of time your body holds water in the place of the fat you already burned off due to stress hormones and other factors brought on by prolonged dieting. The refeed will make you drop this water many times and kickstart fat loss again.
> 
> The problem is a lot of guys lose their s**t on a refeed and go on a binging frenzy and lose weeks of fat loss progress in days. The refeed should be limited to no more than two days of the weeks and no more than 10% of your current estimated TDEE.
> 
> *If you've been cutting for +3 months, it's good to take a one week diet break to rest your body and mind. This consists of not counting calories at all and loosening up your diet, but you still need discipline.*


 In that week, do you set your calories to maintenance level?


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, a lot of time a refeed will actually kickstart weightloss again, this is called a woosh. A lot of time your body holds water in the place of the fat you already burned off due to stress hormones and other factors brought on by prolonged dieting. The refeed will make you drop this water many times and kickstart fat loss again.
> 
> The problem is a lot of guys lose their s**t on a refeed and go on a binging frenzy and lose weeks of fat loss progress in days. The refeed should be limited to no more than two days of the weeks and no more than 10% of your current estimated TDEE.
> 
> If you've been cutting for +3 months, it's good to take a one week diet break to rest your body and mind. This consists of not counting calories at all and loosening up your diet, but you still need discipline.


 If I'm having a drink (alcohol, binge) I can and do go way over the top. As you say once you start indulging it's hard to stop and I find myself eating everything and anything


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> In that week, do you set your calories to maintenance level?


 Preferably yes, but remember, you new TDEE is likely lower than estimated due to metabolic downregulation and weight loss. This is why some people like reverse dieting, but isn't necessary. It mostly just gives you a psychological advantage but the physiological one isn't really there.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> If I'm having a drink (alcohol, binge) I can and do go way over the top. As you say once you start indulging it's hard to stop and I find myself eating everything and anything


 Yes, discipline and consistency are the two most important factors in fat loss and muscle gain. The elite have top-tier genetics and iron discipline.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Currently cutting but at the end I'm looking to ramp up my gh from 3iu to 6iu, possibly add in 20iu of fast acting insulin per day, just trying to figure out my bulking plan to gain minimal fat. Of course calories will play a big part but looking to pack on as little fat as possible, what do you recommend?


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Two day carb refeed, 10% surplus of your estimated TDEE. Keep fat very low.


 Thanks for the quick reply, would you start this the day after my last dose or wait till few days later when dnp has left system?


----------



## feelinfine

What I can take that will shed the water weight from test e? It's one of the main reasons why I run tren with test, to get dry.

I read that masteron also does this but I don't want to risk my hair. I would keep just using tren every cycle but I don't think it's healthy doing this long term.

I see that dhb/1-test is pretty popular these days. Not a lot of info on it but read it's like a stronger primo. Would this suffice?

Thanks as always ElChapo.


----------



## Jonk891

I've dropped my calories down to 2500 to cut weight but kept my carbs at 280 grams. I plan to switch it around and go for a 40/40/20 marcos which for me puts me at 131 grams of carbs. What's the lowest amount of carbs that's needed to keep liver glycogen full and to restore some glycogen in the muscle. Is 131 grams to low for this


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Currently cutting but at the end I'm looking to ramp up my gh from 3iu to 6iu, possibly add in 20iu of fast acting insulin per day, just trying to figure out my bulking plan to gain minimal fat. Of course calories will play a big part but looking to pack on as little fat as possible, what do you recommend?


 What do i recommend in terms of what? planning? drugs?

For starters, keep the fat as low as possible. Any fat you consume in a surplus will be store more easily, especially on insulin. Keep your surplus moderate, 500 calories a day is enough for most people to see good gains and minimize fat while still getting decent results. Once you hit 15% bodyfat, i recommend you cut back down to 8-10% again and repeat until desired physique/body composition is achieved.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, would you start this the day after my last dose or wait till few days later when dnp has left system?


 Up to you, the difference will be negligible. You can start as soon as the cut is over.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> What I can take that will shed the water weight from test e? It's one of the main reasons why I run tren with test, to get dry.
> 
> I read that masteron also does this but I don't want to risk my hair. I would keep just using tren every cycle but I don't think it's healthy doing this long term.
> 
> I see that dhb/1-test is pretty popular these days. Not a lot of info on it but read it's like a stronger primo. Would this suffice?
> 
> Thanks as always ElChapo.


 I recommend prop, it keeps me as dry as test e+tren without the facial bloat.

If you want to keep running test E, winstrol will further dry you out, but your best bet is to experiment with test prop. It's broscience but it fixed my issues with testosterone bloat which drove me nuts back in the day when my face and chin would puff up like a watermelon.

You will love how you look and feel and test p+tren or winstrol/dhb. If you inject with insulin needles and stick to a monday, wednesday, friday frequency, short esters are a pleasure to run.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I've dropped my calories down to 2500 to cut weight but kept my carbs at 280 grams. I plan to switch it around and go for a 40/40/20 marcos which for me puts me at 131 grams of carbs. What's the lowest amount of carbs that's needed to keep liver glycogen full and to restore some glycogen in the muscle. Is 131 grams to low for this


 Yeah, you want that to be over 200 grams preferably, this will keep leptin as high as it can be in a deficit and glycogen stores full which means more muscle fullness, strength and endurance. The bonus is that your mood and energy will be better than someone on a low carb diet which can lead to irritability, impaired muscle performance and increase in stress hormones.

0.8 grams per lbs of body weight is my recommended minimum if you want a more specific number.


----------



## Avgs

Can test E cause shortness of breath?

I'm 6 weeks into a 500mg test E/ week cycle, also taking 60mg ralox ED

Yesterday, 45mins into a pretty intense bike ride I had some pretty severe shortness of breath and chest pains.

Went to ER and got checked out, everything came back fine.

I've ran test at this level before, even ran tren at 350 and never had this problem?


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapowhat's your opinion of mast on a lean bulk with test and tren?

Seems every lab provinces ttm why the mast?

I know it can help with sides and gives some strength also but do you think it's worth having in there ?


----------



## Redser

ElChapo said:


> On the OTC side, zinc/copper would be very important. This is one of the most important minerals for fertility and sperm health.
> 
> Optional: D-Aspartic acid, ashwagandha, and L-Carnitine all have very good effects on sperm motility, quality and count.
> 
> If you have access to HMG, i would blast it for 12-24 weeks(75-150 iu x 3 pw) solo then switch to 12 weeks of clomiphene at 50-100 mg until conception. For best results, you would not touch any AAS during this time. Viagra/cialis might help if you have issues with erections during this treatment. Ideally, one would have ran HCG or HMG through out their blasting and cruising for best results. You must give this protocol at least 6 months for best results. (You can substitute hmg for hcg at 1,000-3000 iu per week)
> 
> Most importantly, you MUST track your partners ovulation cycle and fertility window. Even ultra-potent sperm will not conceive if a female is not in her fertile period. There are a lot of very good mobile apps for this, and it's essential to time sex within the fertility window, and "saving up" is a good idea. Sperm quality is better when you don't ejaculate everyday.
> 
> As for triptorelin, there's some potential here but we don't have enough data. Typically, what i stated above will get favorable results for most people. Some guys already had very poor fertility prior to running any AAS, and AAS extinguishes what little they had naturally. At that point, IVF is a great option.


 Me and the misses tried for years and gave up, now I have a baby at home.

An Eastern European doc put me on hcg for a month and some aromasin and lone behold the misses got preg.


----------



## Pancake'

What's your stance on training till failure.

Does reaching failure produce a greater hypertrophic response than let's say, if you just progressed in the total volume workload you did in a given workout? But you left reps in the tank, so to speak.

Person A: Moved 100kg on the bench for 5 sets of 10 = 5000kg didn't reach failure once.

Person B: only moved 4200kg in total, but went to failure on all sets.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> No need for the bullshit carbs, you're just flushing money down the toilet with waxy maize and the other carb supplements. You will get the same effect from eating cereal with milk.


 Can't eat milk mate....... so you say that i can have same results with just those cereals? https://www.amazon.it/CHEERIOS-MIELE-ciambelline-cereali-integrali/dp/B00HGDNR9A/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_tr_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6WXVM962QGYKASNZ385S and some whey in water?


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapowhat's your opinion of mast on a lean bulk with test and tren?
> 
> Seems every lab provinces ttm why the mast?
> 
> I know it can help with sides and gives some strength also but do you think it's worth having in there ?


 I think that having some DHT in is good thing, and that being an injectable puts less stress on liver...

Btw guys, was thinking about something..frontloading orals.. i mean, lets say that you have an oral steroid..that has half life of lets say 3hrs..and if you use 40mg day..spreaD in lets say 2doses..it will still take time to build up..wouldnt it be ok to add daily total at your first take..i know it sounds stupit but i see no harm in doing so


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> No need for the bullshit carbs, you're just flushing money down the toilet with waxy maize and the other carb supplements. You will get the same effect from eating cereal with milk.


 @ElChapo

Can't eat milk mate....... so you say that i can have same results with just those cereals? https://www.amazon.it/CHEERIOS-MIELE-ciambelline-cereali-integrali/dp/B00HGDNR9A/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_tr_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6WXVM962QGYKASNZ385S and some 30g whey in water?


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I have a friend (female, 30s, lifts weights, does BJJ, eats well, sleeps well, blah blah). Her liver values are outrageous and despite a myriad of blood tests and ultrasounds and whathaveyou, none of her doctors have a clue what's up.

She is getting really worried about it, as it's on going a long time now, and doesn't know where to turn.

To give you an example, here's some of her values:

CGT 60

AST GOT 189

AST AL 256

I know practically nothing about liver enzymes but I know those values are a LOT higher than mine (I get blood tests every few months from medichecks.co.uk).

Are you aware of any particular stand out specialist in the field of liver health (for want of a better term)?

Is it worth her looking into TUDCA?

Massive thanks in advance.


----------



## 3752

ElChapo said:


> No need for the bullshit carbs, you're just flushing money down the toilet with waxy maize and the other carb supplements. You will get the same effect from eating cereal with milk.





ElChapo said:


> No need for the bullshit carbs, you're just flushing money down the toilet with waxy maize and the other carb supplements. You will get the same effect from eating cereal with milk.


 well not really Waxy Maize and CBD clear faster than cereal from the gut so for those that have issues with their gut/digestive system would do better with the powders, although there is no point in taking insulin with GH or pre or post workout you would get more use out of the insulin if you took it away from the workout and it is safer IMO


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Can test E cause shortness of breath?
> 
> I'm 6 weeks into a 500mg test E/ week cycle, also taking 60mg ralox ED
> 
> Yesterday, 45mins into a pretty intense bike ride I had some pretty severe shortness of breath and chest pains.
> 
> Went to ER and got checked out, everything came back fine.
> 
> I've ran test at this level before, even ran tren at 350 and never had this problem?


 AAS will make your body consume more oxygen and makes your energy production much less efficient, so cardio usually gets hit.

Anything over 300 mg will start to impair cardio, depending on the intensity and duration.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapowhat's your opinion of mast on a lean bulk with test and tren?
> 
> Seems every lab provinces ttm why the mast?
> 
> I know it can help with sides and gives some strength also but do you think it's worth having in there ?


 Winstrol is much much better for lean tissue gains. Masteron is fairly mild. I would go winstrol, superdrol or DHB in place of masteron in any stack.

TTM is meh, the masteron could be a better AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Redser said:


> Me and the misses tried for years and gave up, now I have a baby at home.
> 
> An Eastern European doc put me on hcg for a month and some aromasin and lone behold the misses got preg.


 There you go, most guys have a decent chance as long as the female doesn't have their own fertility problems. If you take the right stuff, have patience and time the ovulation correctly, there's a good chance for many guys who have been shutdown to have success.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your stance on training till failure.
> 
> Does reaching failure produce a greater hypertrophic response than let's say, if you just progressed in the total volume workload you did in a given workout? But you left reps in the tank, so to speak.
> 
> Person A: Moved 100kg on the bench for 5 sets of 10 = 5000kg didn't reach failure once.
> 
> Person B: only moved 4200kg in total, but went to failure on all sets.


 It's not needed, you can get good results with leaving 1 or 2 reps in the tank but typically i recommend this for heavy weights and i still like going to failure myself even with heavy loads.

For isolation exercise and high reps, i believe failure will lead to more favorable metabolic adaptations.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Can't eat milk mate....... so you say that i can have same results with just those cereals? https://www.amazon.it/CHEERIOS-MIELE-ciambelline-cereali-integrali/dp/B00HGDNR9A/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_tr_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6WXVM962QGYKASNZ385S and some whey in water?


 Yeah, whey in water with cereal is perfect, or you can do coconut/almond/whatever milk with whey. Pick your favorite cereal.


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> I think that having some DHT in is good thing, and that being an injectable puts less stress on liver...
> 
> Btw guys, was thinking about something..frontloading orals.. i mean, lets say that you have an oral steroid..that has half life of lets say 3hrs..and if you use 40mg day..spreaD in lets say 2doses..it will still take time to build up..wouldnt it be ok to add daily total at your first take..i know it sounds stupit but i see no harm in doing so


 I definitely recommend a DHT for best results. Winstrol/superdrol/DHB are many times more effective than masteron for drying out, strength, and muscle growth.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I have a friend (female, 30s, lifts weights, does BJJ, eats well, sleeps well, blah blah). Her liver values are outrageous and despite a myriad of blood tests and ultrasounds and whathaveyou, none of her doctors have a clue what's up.
> 
> She is getting really worried about it, as it's on going a long time now, and doesn't know where to turn.
> 
> To give you an example, here's some of her values:
> 
> CGT 60
> 
> AST GOT 189
> 
> AST AL 256
> 
> I know practically nothing about liver enzymes but I know those values are a LOT higher than mine (I get blood tests every few months from medichecks.co.uk).
> 
> Are you aware of any particular stand out specialist in the field of liver health (for want of a better term)?
> 
> Is it worth her looking into TUDCA?
> 
> Massive thanks in advance.


 Those aren't too scary. She doesn't drink? Any prescription meds? or OTC pain meds?

I've seen liver values in the 2,000s when i was in school and the doctors weren't worried at all. (You should have seen my reaction)

Are you in the UK? Look for a good hepatology or gastroenterology center, they can do more specific tests and will know what look for, it will be good to get some kind of answer for closure because although not very scary, those levels are over x 5 times higher than normal.


----------



## ElChapo

Pscarb said:


> well not really Waxy Maize and CBD clear faster than cereal from the gut so for those that have issues with their gut/digestive system would do better with the powders, although there is no point in taking insulin with GH or pre or post workout you would get more use out of the insulin if you took it away from the workout and it is safer IMO


 If you find a favorable effect on digetion from those carb sources then yeah, stick with them. For most people, they will get more value out of their favorite breakfast cereal and some milk.


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> Refeeds are very important the leaner you get, not just for feeling good, performance, and muscle fullness but because they upregulate your metabolism by increase leptin, T3, and other hormones that are gradually decreased on a caloric deficit.
> 
> Once you hit 13% body fat you should start looking into refeeds. Those are higher bodyfat levels will have a lot of leptin and won't really need them. If you keeps your carbs high through out your cut, you also won't need them as often.


 If one is taking T3 exogenously - is the refeed still necessary? and if so, should they be altered (ie not as high?)


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> AAS will make your body consume more oxygen and makes your energy production much less efficient, so cardio usually gets hit.
> 
> Anything over 300 mg will start to impair cardio, depending on the intensity and duration.


 Must have panicked. Every test on my heart and lungs came back great


----------



## 3752

ElChapo said:


> If you find a favorable effect on digetion from those carb sources then yeah, stick with them. For most people, they will get more value out of their favorite breakfast cereal and some milk.


 to be fair there is zero reason to take carbs both intra and post workout as it makes no difference on energy levels or recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

Pscarb said:


> to be fair there is zero reason to take carbs both intra and post workout as it makes no difference on energy levels or recovery.


 I recommend high glycemic carbs post-workout with your protein, it will greatly enhance insulin secretion and increase nutrient uptake in the muscles. This is further enhanced if you take exogenous insulin. Glycogen replenishment is also greatly enhanced in the post-workout window (enhanced insulin secretion & insulin sensitivity) this is the best time to load up.

Pre-workout carbs is down to the discretion of the individual, some people prefer to train fasted or with a very light meal before hand.


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> If one is taking T3 exogenously - is the refeed still necessary? and if so, should they be altered (ie not as high?)


 Yes, because T3 isn't the only thing that decreases during a cut. Leptin is the most important hormone when it comes to metabolism, satiety, and weight control. Leptin is an adipokine which means it's a hormone produced by fat cells. As you lose fat and eat less, leptin will levels will decrease which means hunger and cravings will increase and metabolism will decrease.

Carb refeeds will restore leptin levels, kickstart the metabolism, replenish glycogen, maintain optimal performance and you will feel better overall in terms of mood and well-being. (Because low leptin and glycogen levels will make you feel like s**t)


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Must have panicked. Every test on my heart and lungs came back great


 Yeah, you won't notice any negative effect unless you do intensive cardio. It's not like it's hurting your heart, but when you push your body with intensive exercise that taxes the cardiopulmonary system, that small effect will take it's toll on your endurance capacity.

Many guys will tell you that they run high doses of test and tren with no negative effect on their cardio, this can be true when they aren't pushing their body past a certain intensity threshold. If you are doing a nice light cardio jog or walking, you won't feel that test or tren too much, but if you are doing boxing, MMA or intense cardio, you will feel it and you will feel it hard and fast.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is much much better for lean tissue gains. Masteron is fairly mild. I would go winstrol, superdrol or DHB in place of masteron in any stack.
> 
> TTM is meh, the masteron could be a better AAS.


 I want to avoid orals this cycle as it's summer and I'll be drinking quite a bit


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, you won't notice any negative effect unless you do intensive cardio. It's not like it's hurting your heart, but when you push your body with intensive exercise that taxes the cardiopulmonary system, that small effect will take it's toll on your endurance capacity.
> 
> Many guys will tell you that they run high doses of test and tren with no negative effect on their cardio, this can be true when they aren't pushing their body past a certain intensity threshold. If you are doing a nice light cardio jog or walking, you won't feel that test or tren too much, but if you are doing boxing, MMA or intense cardio, you will feel it and you will feel it hard and fast.


 Yup, i go to boxing training, and i do a load of road cycling (1-2hours, 20mph average). I work in a nightclub as a barback on the weekends, which is 5-6 hours cardio every fri-sat night. I've noticed a lack of endurance, i'm always gassing.


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> I recommend prop, it keeps me as dry as test e+tren without the facial bloat.


 Oh nice. I definitely have to try a prop only cycle soon. I like the feeling of being on test only.

But don't like the swollen balloon look of being on test e. That's why I've been running tren along with it. For the harden slab look.

If that makes sense. If prop can do this, I don't see the point of running anything else.

You said you pin EOD, is that okay? Because I always thought you need to pin prop ED. Thanks!


----------



## 3752

ElChapo said:


> I recommend high glycemic carbs post-workout with your protein, it will greatly enhance insulin secretion and increase nutrient uptake in the muscles. This is further enhanced if you take exogenous insulin. Glycogen replenishment is also greatly enhanced in the post-workout window (enhanced insulin secretion & insulin sensitivity) this is the best time to load up.
> 
> Pre-workout carbs is down to the discretion of the individual, some people prefer to train fasted or with a very light meal before hand.


 That's correct but unnecessary as PWO you have non-insulin mediated glucose uptake.

Pwo you have the ability to store 2g/kg carbs due to this.

Insulin PWO as in immediately pwo is totally unnecessary for this reason. But about 90 minutes after with a meal there's an argument for as most people won't take in 2g/kg.

However, as a bodybuilder, I also think it's unnecessary to be ramming in carbs as there are zero reasons to restore glycogen within 40 minutes of a workout as no one trains within an hour or two of training so the carbs you eat over the day will do this.

People just ram carbs for the sake of it


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

spardaa said:


> If one is taking T3 exogenously - is the refeed still necessary? and if so, should they be altered (ie not as high?)


 Yes, also because of cortisol levels, adrenal fatique stomach acidity tends ti rise during diet(acid reflux, etc) thats inhibiting even exo t3 absorbtion..so your body f**ks you up in many ways, even if you take exo t3...


----------



## 3752

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Yes, also because of cortisol levels, adrenal fatique stomach acidity tends ti rise during diet(acid reflux, etc) thats inhibiting even exo t3 absorbtion..so your body f**ks you up in many ways, even if you take exo t3...


 how does a refeed drop Cortisol, adrenal fatigue, stomach acid?? it is true that when on a calorie deficit hormone levels do downgrade such as leptin but i am curious to how refeeding fixes these issues and if you can actually fix them with a refeed.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Pscarb said:


> to be fair there is zero reason to take carbs both intra and post workout as it makes no difference on energy levels or recovery.


 Anecdotally, I dont agree at all.

Especially if I train twice per day, weights and BJJ for example. Which is most days.


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Pscarb said:


> how does a refeed drop Cortisol, adrenal fatigue, stomach acid?? it is true that when on a calorie deficit hormone levels do downgrade such as leptin but i am curious to how refeeding fixes these issues and if you can actually fix them with a refeed.


 Due to high protein with lover carbs stomach acid tends to rise, but starch can somewhat help with that, oatmeal especially..refeeds boosts insulin, insulin drops cortisol wich is in corelation with adrenal glands.. also mental state is important.. all the little things i found out over time.. since i am very interestet in exo thyroid hormones.since im myself hypothyriod and i tried to find out why some people take up to 100mcg t3 only to even get up to normal levels.. on some forums i talked with people who take 120mcg t3 day and their ft3 is upper normal or slightly over normal range.. also theres.the thing i found out also that people who are hypo need from 60-75mcg t3 only therapy..so for performance enhancment even more.. but thats not the topic here, but i got to very interesting findings in exo thyroid hormone use for sports performance, and they are very different when people are hypothyroid and when they are euthyroid(normal) so for hypo people its actually replacment dose+performance enhancment dose, and thats the reason why people who are on lt4 or ndt therapy actually shouldnt stop their normal therapy during t3 cycle.for performance.. but add lets say 40mcg ontop of the replacment dose for them.. when i did that i can actually go with my lt4 dosage plus 37.5mcg t3 added way better than on 75mcg t3 only..because when n i used 37.5mcg t3 x 2 day i was always in range..i had peaks..but my trough was actually top normal range..and before new dose i was on the lower end.. did bloods on all of theese.. on 2,6,8 and 12hrs post taking..and i actually found out i do better on 100mcg lt4 plus 50mcg t3 than 75mcg t3 alone.. also sodium bicarbonate is something i advise during diet if you take t3 because it can encrease absorbtion up to 15% proven on myself and my own bloodwork..trust me, i did bloodwork 20times.in 30something days..and im in tune with things i do now..also ive tested some t3 products and can say that of.all ugls i have tried Balkan is best..and titan healthcare showed worst..


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Those aren't too scary. She doesn't drink? Any prescription meds? or OTC pain meds?
> 
> I've seen liver values in the 2,000s when i was in school and the doctors weren't worried at all. (You should have seen my reaction)
> 
> Are you in the UK? Look for a good hepatology or gastroenterology center, they can do more specific tests and will know what look for, it will be good to get some kind of answer for closure because although not very scary, those levels are over x 5 times higher than normal.


 Thank you for this. No, she's in Spain where I am. Is it worth her trying TUDCA?

Massively appreciate your help.


----------



## stewedw

Sometimes on cycle I get dry scalp, often taking aromasin can help regardless of dose of test I'm on from blast to cruise etc. Recently the dry flake is on my beard, chin, moustache. I've shaved off, moisturised and started to grow again but no matter how I groom it or pop, moisturise it, I still have flakes, or at best light white dandruff.

If it's gear related can anything be done? Can nizarol help? Thanks.


----------



## stewedw

Sore note, spoke to a chic two weeks out from a comp today. She's on 25mg winny and 20mg anavar a day. She's already very ripped. Much so than say a female 100m sprinter. She's quite muscular so assume it's a female muscle category she's doing. She said she's uk 9st 2lbs at 5ft 7 inch.

Anyway. I thought that was a lot of gear for a chic on her third comp? She's feminine and attractive (just to give a description) but didn't look in shape until a month out. She then said this was her last comp as "the chics placing higher use a lot more gear and its too much".... She's was lean everywhere apart from ripped glutes.

Thoughts? Never got to ask what else she was running ie T3, clean, dnp, as she volunteered this winny and anavar in passing. Oddly my bird is stronger at all lifts (as I asked what she had as lifts) so was surprised for a few reasons.

Do they run pct?? Thanks.


----------



## Avgs

stewedw said:


> Sometimes on cycle I get dry scalp, often taking aromasin can help regardless of dose of test I'm on from blast to cruise etc. Recently the dry flake is on my beard, chin, moustache. I've shaved off, moisturised and started to grow again but no matter how I groom it or pop, moisturise it, I still have flakes, or at best light white dandruff.
> 
> If it's gear related can anything be done? Can nizarol help? Thanks.


 Nizoral sorted my dry scalp / dandruff out within a week, leave it in for 5mins when you shower


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> I want to avoid orals this cycle as it's summer and I'll be drinking quite a bit


 Injectable winstrol and sdrol or DHB.

I'd go with DHB since the winstrol/sdrol can still stress the liver a bit even when injected. (to a much lesser degree)


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Yup, i go to boxing training, and i do a load of road cycling (1-2hours, 20mph average). I work in a nightclub as a barback on the weekends, which is 5-6 hours cardio every fri-sat night. I've noticed a lack of endurance, i'm always gassing.


 Yeah, you will get that on the higher dose of AAS. 200-300 mg is the max weekly dose if you want to control the endurance issue. Even 300 mg can affect it negatively, it depends on your individual response and baseline fitness level.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Oh nice. I definitely have to try a prop only cycle soon. I like the feeling of being on test only.
> 
> But don't like the swollen balloon look of being on test e. That's why I've been running tren along with it. For the harden slab look.
> 
> If that makes sense. If prop can do this, I don't see the point of running anything else.
> 
> You said you pin EOD, is that okay? Because I always thought you need to pin prop ED. Thanks!


 No, i pin prop and tren ace Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Using a insulin needle and syringe. 1 mL, 29 gauge. 100% painless.

I hate test E and love test prop. I feel prop more in the mood, libido, strength and aesthetic department. Muscles are fuller and dryer, no facial bloat and more energy and strength at a lower dosage. No pip as long as your brew has a little EO in it. 5-15% EO will remove Test p PIP. Pharmaceutical test prop is 100% EO.


----------



## ElChapo

Pscarb said:


> That's correct but unnecessary as PWO you have non-insulin mediated glucose uptake.
> 
> Pwo you have the ability to store 2g/kg carbs due to this.
> 
> Insulin PWO as in immediately pwo is totally unnecessary for this reason. But about 90 minutes after with a meal there's an argument for as most people won't take in 2g/kg.
> 
> However, as a bodybuilder, I also think it's unnecessary to be ramming in carbs as there are zero reasons to restore glycogen within 40 minutes of a workout as no one trains within an hour or two of training so the carbs you eat over the day will do this.
> 
> People just ram carbs for the sake of it


 I always recommend hitting some high glycemic carbs after the workout within the 1 hour feeding window with your protein. High volume work outs can burn through glycogen, you will get the strongest anabolic response from a high glycemic meal with some protein due to enhanced nutrient uptake via increase in p70s6k and other myogenic transcription factors post-training and the enhanced insulin sensitivity at the myocytes. This is independent of any exogenous insulin, which would further enhance this anabolic effect.

Pre-workout nutrition is not as important in my opinion, but ideally, you would have at least a little snack or some BCAA. Intra-workout nutrition is overrated.


----------



## ElChapo

Pscarb said:


> how does a refeed drop Cortisol, adrenal fatigue, stomach acid?? it is true that when on a calorie deficit hormone levels do downgrade such as leptin but i am curious to how refeeding fixes these issues and if you can actually fix them with a refeed.


 Refeeding does lower cortisol for sure. A sustained caloric deficit increase cortisol and other stress hormones and lower serotonin. This is one of the reasons people get irritable on a serious cut.

The influx of carbs and calories suppresses cortisol by activating the parasympathetic nervous system and releasing feel good/relaxing chemicals like serotonin and tryptophan. When leptin is low, you feel that light headed/hungry weak feeling and ghrelin levels are higher. (ghrelin is the hunger hormone).

The refeed will temporarily restore leptin levels, lower cortisol and help fight some of the negative effects of a long deficit but as you get leaner, the refeeds need to be more frequent to sustain these benefits.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Anecdotally, I dont agree at all.
> 
> Especially if I train twice per day, weights and BJJ for example. Which is most days.


 Someone who is in a high-performance sports like BJJ/Boxing/Soccer etc really needs to jam the carbs in as these sports burn through glycogen and energy, especially if the athlete has aspirations for bodybuilding, because less energy and building material will be available for muscle growth. Carbs are the #1 macro nutrient for performance. They are gasoline to the cells in the body.

Fat and protein are much less efficient at providing energy to cells. Protein needs to be broken down first then converted into glucose and fat is turned to ketones, both are much less efficient than carbs.


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Due to high protein with lover carbs stomach acid tends to rise, but starch can somewhat help with that, oatmeal especially..refeeds boosts insulin, insulin drops cortisol wich is in corelation with adrenal glands.. also mental state is important.. all the little things i found out over time.. since i am very interestet in exo thyroid hormones.since im myself hypothyriod and i tried to find out why some people take up to 100mcg t3 only to even get up to normal levels.. on some forums i talked with people who take 120mcg t3 day and their ft3 is upper normal or slightly over normal range.. also theres.the thing i found out also that people who are hypo need from 60-75mcg t3 only therapy..so for performance enhancment even more.. but thats not the topic here, but i got to very interesting findings in exo thyroid hormone use for sports performance, and they are very different when people are hypothyroid and when they are euthyroid(normal) so for hypo people its actually replacment dose+performance enhancment dose, and thats the reason why people who are on lt4 or ndt therapy actually shouldnt stop their normal therapy during t3 cycle.for performance.. but add lets say 40mcg ontop of the replacment dose for them.. when i did that i can actually go with my lt4 dosage plus 37.5mcg t3 added way better than on 75mcg t3 only..because when n i used 37.5mcg t3 x 2 day i was always in range..i had peaks..but my trough was actually top normal range..and before new dose i was on the lower end.. did bloods on all of theese.. on 2,6,8 and 12hrs post taking..and i actually found out i do better on 100mcg lt4 plus 50mcg t3 than 75mcg t3 alone.. also sodium bicarbonate is something i advise during diet if you take t3 because it can encrease absorbtion up to 15% proven on myself and my own bloodwork..trust me, i did bloodwork 20times.in 30something days..and im in tune with things i do now..also ive tested some t3 products and can say that of.all ugls i have tried Balkan is best..and titan healthcare showed worst..


 I'm glad that you notice that T4 is very important for well-being. There are certain tissues that work best by using T4 instead of directly using T3. T4 and T3 are essential for optimal health.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thank you for this. No, she's in Spain where I am. Is it worth her trying TUDCA?
> 
> Massively appreciate your help.


 I wouldn't take anything before getting to the bottom of it. She should get her pancreas, gallbladder and liver checked out. You don't want to put a bandaid on it without finding the problem first.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Sometimes on cycle I get dry scalp, often taking aromasin can help regardless of dose of test I'm on from blast to cruise etc. Recently the dry flake is on my beard, chin, moustache. I've shaved off, moisturised and started to grow again but no matter how I groom it or pop, moisturise it, I still have flakes, or at best light white dandruff.
> 
> If it's gear related can anything be done? Can nizarol help? Thanks.


 Nizoral shampoo is the best. Put it in the areas with dandruff for 5 minutes then rinse off. It's the strongest shampoo for dandruff, better than head & shoulders and selsun blue.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Sore note, spoke to a chic two weeks out from a comp today. She's on 25mg winny and 20mg anavar a day. She's already very ripped. Much so than say a female 100m sprinter. She's quite muscular so assume it's a female muscle category she's doing. She said she's uk 9st 2lbs at 5ft 7 inch.
> 
> Anyway. I thought that was a lot of gear for a chic on her third comp? She's feminine and attractive (just to give a description) but didn't look in shape until a month out. She then said this was her last comp as "the chics placing higher use a lot more gear and its too much".... She's was lean everywhere apart from ripped glutes.
> 
> Thoughts? Never got to ask what else she was running ie T3, clean, dnp, as she volunteered this winny and anavar in passing. Oddly my bird is stronger at all lifts (as I asked what she had as lifts) so was surprised for a few reasons.
> 
> Do they run pct?? Thanks.


 Steroids don't automatically translate to strength. You need to train for strength, not volume. Many guys are pretty muscular but have pretty bad lifts for their size and weight, relatively speaking.

Thoughts on what specifically? 50 mg of orals is very high for a female but it depends on her goals, if she's in the physique or higher category like Dana Linn Bailey, that's expected. Bikini girls don't need much. Always take anyone's dosage comments with a grain of salt, many people lie about it.

They don't run PCT, i have seen some women suffer from low testosterone after using AAS for a long time. Their endocrine system is extremely complicated. If i were to run a PCT for a female it would be a typical clomid run, otherwise female TRT is very effective at restoring libido, energy, and well-being in women who have low testosterone. Optimal levels are 40-70 ng/dL, which can fluctuate during the menstrual cycle (highest during ovulation which is when they are horniest).


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> I always recommend hitting some high glycemic carbs after the workout within the 1 hour feeding window with your protein. High volume work outs can burn through glycogen, you will get the strongest anabolic response from a high glycemic meal with some protein due to enhanced nutrient uptake via increase in p70s6k and other myogenic transcription factors post-training and the enhanced insulin sensitivity at the myocytes. This is independent of any exogenous insulin, which would further enhance this anabolic effect.
> 
> Pre-workout nutrition is not as important in my opinion, but ideally, you would have at least a little snack or some BCAA. Intra-workout nutrition is overrated.


 I have seen recommendations of 40 grams of protein coupled with 30 grams of fast acting carbs within the hour post-workout, do these numbers work for you?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Someone who is in a high-performance sports like BJJ/Boxing/Soccer etc really needs to jam the carbs in as these sports burn through glycogen and energy, especially if the athlete has aspirations for bodybuilding, because less energy and building material will be available for muscle growth. Carbs are the #1 macro nutrient for performance. They are gasoline to the cells in the body.
> 
> Fat and protein are much less efficient at providing energy to cells. Protein needs to be broken down first then converted into glucose and fat is turned to ketones, both are much less efficient than carbs.


 Completely agree.


----------



## Pancake'

Is Nicotine gum pre workout effective?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Injectable winstrol and sdrol or DHB.
> 
> I'd go with DHB since the winstrol/sdrol can still stress the liver a bit even when injected. (to a much lesser degree)


 Oral SD gives horrible lethargy , would it be the same with injectable?


----------



## Baka

What about caffein shampoo for hair growth? not sure it's useful but some people claim it is


----------



## ghost.recon

Bump


----------



## Jonk891

ghost.recon said:


> Bump


 Tbol vs var for a cutting cycle ?


----------



## impreza_01

Hi can I take blood test for estrogen within 4 days of using Asin? I have a baseline estrogen now without AI. I will start taking AI now to find my sweet spot then get bloods in 4 days within using asin. Is it ok or I should wait a week for Asin to peak in blood?


----------



## Baka

àromasîn works immediately


----------



## impreza_01

Baka said:


> àromasîn works immediately


 Ok so it is ok to have bloodwork immediately after ingesting aromasin? Im gonna compare my estro baseline without AI and with an AI this time.


----------



## Baka

impreza_01 said:


> Ok so it is ok to have bloodwork immediately after ingesting aromasin? Im gonna compare my estro baseline without AI and with an AI this time.


 It will work the day you take it yes


----------



## pma111

Any specific recommendation on which beta blocker for high blood pressure... and a sensible start dose?


----------



## Will2309

pma111 said:


> Any specific recommendation on which beta blocker for high blood pressure... and a sensible start dose?


 When I ask a question about blood pressure meds he said i should try Metoprolol, didn't suggest doses though.


----------



## pma111

Thanks... just ran a search on this thread 'You can run metoprolol starting at 25-50 mg daily, up to 100 mg daily. You can increase dose every week until you reach desired BP levels. '


----------



## Will2309

I will be speaking to my Dr in a couple of weeks to discuss this med as the Doxazosin Iam on now isn't very good.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

whats your thoughts on tanning beds ? They've been banned in Australia, I'm not to sure why ? But there's a few underground ones , what's your thoughts on using one a couple times a week ?


----------



## JUICE1

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your thoughts on tanning beds ? They've been banned in Australia, I'm not to sure why ? But there's a few underground ones , what's your thoughts on using one a couple times a week ?


 You're not sure why?



> Approximately, two in three *Australians* will be diagnosed with *skin cancer* by the time they are 70, with more than 750,000 people treated for one or more non-melanoma *skin cancers* in *Australia* each year.


 I'm not saying I agree with banning them but it's pretty obvious why Australia might decide to, white people tanning too much leads to skin cancer.


----------



## Whoremoan1

JUICE1 said:


> You're not sure why?
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with banning them but it's pretty obvious why Australia might decide to, white people tanning too much leads to skin cancer.


 Is that due to tanning beds ? Or the sun lol

Would be used in conjunction with mt2


----------



## stewedw

Hi mate 3ml.of this blend below would be decent, wouldn't you think? Adding in 3iu gh daily and maybe winny 100mg per day?

1-Test cyp (DHB) 100mg, Bold Cyp 100mg, EQ 100mg.

Thanks?


----------



## JUICE1

Whoremoan1 said:


> Is that due to tanning beds ? Or the sun lol
> 
> Would be used in conjunction with mt2


 Well they both do the same thing.. People are getting skin cancer at insane rates whether they do tanning beds or not, Australia obviously don't want tanning beds to further contribute to the problem.



> Using indoor *tanning beds* before age 35 can increase your risk of *melanoma*, the deadliest form of *skin cancer*, by 59 percent; the risk increases with each use


 https://www.aad.org/media/stats/prevention-and-care

MT2 is arguably the safer option overall because you can get a great tan with a small amount of exposure.


----------



## superdrol

Baka said:


> It will work the day you take it yes


 I will agree however as someone who slightly overdosed it, eod instead of e3d it took over 3 weeks for my levels to steadily and slowly drop to the point where I got low e2 symptoms, so that would suffer if using aromasin I would leave bloods for e2 until you've been on it a month otherwise you can get inconsistent readings which then may skew your thinkings about doses and adjustments thereoff


----------



## Avgs

El Chapo, what are you running atm?


----------



## Whoremoan1

JUICE1 said:


> Well they both do the same thing.. People are getting skin cancer at insane rates whether they do tanning beds or not, Australia obviously don't want tanning beds to further contribute to the problem.
> 
> https://www.aad.org/media/stats/prevention-and-care
> 
> MT2 is arguably the safer option overall because you can get a great tan with a small amount of exposure.


 yeah exactly, at the moment though its winter and raining alot, what would be a good protocol for a tan with mt2 + plus a tanning bed? unless you can get a tan on mt2 without the sun ??

also i thought the ban was due to hygiene ? there was an argument on how hygienic they are,, was also curious on that , whats thought on that ?


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Hey guys, dont wanna open new thread for one question..i have competition in2days..my friends advise me to use slin for carbload, as they all use it, i would but even 3iu 3xday tomorrow followed by a 100g rice meal freaks me out..

Im scarred because ive never ever used it..BUT ive got.my igf lr3 today, wich i will start after competition but..would i get any, even a slight benefit of starting it tomorrow morning, to fill up better.. any any input would be of a great use for me..thanx in advance


----------



## Devil

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Hey guys, dont wanna open new thread for one question..i have competition in2days..my friends advise me to use slin for carbload, as they all use it, i would but even 3iu 3xday tomorrow followed by a 100g rice meal freaks me out..
> 
> Im scarred because ive never ever used it..BUT ive got.my igf lr3 today, wich i will start after competition but..would i get any, even a slight benefit of starting it tomorrow morning, to fill up better.. any any input would be of a great use for me..thanx in advance


 In short, if you've never used it, experienced how you respond and practiced said carb up - no, bad idea, forget it and save for next time.


----------



## Andyjames26

.


----------



## bert.edge

Hi,

seem to be suffering with lots of red lumps (suppose they're spots) in my hair, generally at the back and side of my head. Odd spot on my face now and again.

Anything you'd rate to help? Thanks


----------



## feelinfine

Sam R said:


> For example, I've had anxiety and heavy sweating with Tren acetate cycles before however I am now three weeks into a Tren Enanthate cycle (first time using) at 300mg/wk and am having only minor night sweats nothing too bad and also no anxiety at all. Should I expect for side effects to get progressively worse as the trenbolone begins to "kick in" or would I have encountered the issues already after using for just over three weeks.


 Personally I feel the strength and weight gain on tren e from week 3 on. Don't see any sides until around week 6. Luckily I don't get much sides from tren but I do notice a difference in the later weeks.


----------



## Sam R

feelinfine said:


> Personally I feel the strength and weight gain on tren e from week 3 on. Don't see any sides until around week 6. Luckily I don't get much sides from tren but I do notice a difference in the later weeks.


 How do you find the sweating on Tren E? Also what dosage do you run it at?


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Today or tomorrow im starting IGF lr3 ill start with 30mcg..whats that about taking it pwo, or pre wo, or some say first thing in the morning..other say no close to a workout because of MGF, etc etc..does it really matter?


----------



## sponge2015

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Ive ran 1000iu HCG a week since day 1 of using gear, and its made recovery a breeze, even when i've been on 2+ years sometimes. Bloodwork months after PCT to confirm.

I can get pharma HMG dirt cheap as i buy in bulk, like 50 boxes at a time,

What dose of HMG would be similar to HCG at 1000iu a week?

As if its something like 150iu surely i'd be better of using HMG as it mimics both LH and FSH and not just LH like hcg?

correct me if im wrong, been a while since i looked into this as always just use HCG

chees


----------



## feelinfine

Sam R said:


> How do you find the sweating on Tren E? Also what dosage do you run it at?


 I am running it at 400mg per week. I hardly get any night sweats but I don't eat carbs at night time.

Eating a carb heavy meal during the day will make me warm and sweat even if I am not doing anything.

At night it is much worse. So I just avoid it altogether and time my meals.


----------



## Andyjames26

@ElChapo

How the bloody hell do you remember all these big words amazes me every time I read through lol


----------



## impreza_01

Baka said:


> It will work the day you take it yes


 Im getting acne since starting Asin at 12.5 e3d on 300mg test. Could it be just hormone fluctuations? Im still waiting a month on using Asin to get bloods again. Weird s**t is im getting dry skin on face too.


----------



## Baka

impreza_01 said:


> Im getting acne since starting Asin at 12.5 e3d on 300mg test. Could it be just hormone fluctuations? Im still waiting a month on using Asin to get bloods again. Weird s**t is im getting dry skin on face too.


 more free test


----------



## impreza_01

Baka said:


> more free test


 Care to explain? Do i need to wait till my bloods stabilize for acne to go away


----------



## Baka

impreza_01 said:


> Care to explain? Do i need to wait till my bloods stabilize for acne to go away


 Aromasin decrease SHBG levels , which in results give more free hormones like testosterone.

More free test gives better libido , more acne too.


----------



## ghost.recon

Right what's going on guys? I'm going to be more active on this thread.

Keep your questions short and concise, do not waffle, get to the point so that I'm able to provide a concise answer. Include relevant background information with your question only if appropriate.

I am currently available for online nutrition, exercise, and performance enhancing drug coaching.


----------



## u2pride

ghost.recon said:


> Right what's going on guys? I'm going to be more active on this thread.
> 
> Keep your questions short and concise, do not waffle, get to the point so that I'm able to provide a concise answer. Include relevant background information with your question only if appropriate.
> 
> I am currently available for online nutrition, exercise, and performance enhancing drug coaching.


 Hi Ghost,

1) Best nutrition % i.e. 50cho/30pro/20fat and how many fat minimum you could use

2) Best AAS cutting cycle

3) Best routine and how to periodize

Thanks


----------



## MrBishi

ghost.recon said:


> I am currently available for online nutrition, exercise, and *performance enhancing drug coaching.*


 What do you mean by this?


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ghost.recon hi mate couple questions.....

1) Is it ok to stack DHB with EQ ive read its not but no actual evidence as to why ?

2) My wife has over active thyroid she is constantly lethargic and drained, what if anything can she take to help ?

3) I used ralox to reduce gyno but it got worse so im now on 20mg nolva and it seems to be shrinking am I best keeping to nolva now ?

or can I go back to ralox that is said to be better to reduce/rid gyno ?


----------



## JakobJuice

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ghost.recon hi mate couple questions.....
> 
> 1) Is it ok to stack DHB with EQ ive read its not but no actual evidence as to why ?
> 
> 2) My wife has over active thyroid she is constantly lethargic and drained, what if anything can she take to help ?
> 
> 3) I used ralox to reduce gyno but it got worse so im now on 20mg nolva and it seems to be shrinking am I best keeping to nolva now ?
> 
> or can I go back to ralox that is said to be better to reduce/rid gyno ?


 if you want my opinion to 1) I think both compounds are 2 complete different horses, while dhb gave me a nice full and veiny look with some thermo effects i.e. felt hotter but not freaking hot and sweaty like on tren, and somehow helped me to strip my love handles from any possible % of fat-- EQ makes me look somehow drier, new veins are appearing and gives me a better pump during workout, ah and I don't look as full as on dhb. no thermo effects or """local fat burning""".

So imo if you're looking for kinda side free compounds you could use both. just bro science and my own experience.


----------



## arbffgadm100

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Ive ran 1000iu HCG a week since day 1 of using gear, and its made recovery a breeze, even when i've been on 2+ years sometimes. Bloodwork months after PCT to confirm.
> 
> I can get pharma HMG dirt cheap as i buy in bulk, like 50 boxes at a time,
> 
> What dose of HMG would be similar to HCG at 1000iu a week?
> 
> As if its something like 150iu surely i'd be better of using HMG as it mimics both LH and FSH and not just LH like hcg?
> 
> correct me if im wrong, been a while since i looked into this as always just use HCG
> 
> chees


 I would be very interested in this response as well @ghost.recon


----------



## UK2USA

Classic cycle of Test, Deca, D'bol, is there a "best" dosing strategy? Equal doses of Test and Deca? Twice as much Deca as Test? Or person dependant and have to find a sweet spot?

Relevant info - for older lifter/user.


----------



## Devil

Longest you'd advocate tren run?

Running 125mg test 300mg tren e and 50mcg t3 ed.

No sides except sweating, bloods aren't great but are still bottom range acceptable.

30 mins cardio ed and a relatively healthy diet.

Id like to go for 8 months total provided progress doesn't stall.

Thanks fella.

@ghost.recon


----------



## arbffgadm100

NPP, DHB or EQ for blast with low test (150-200). Goal is progress and mass with minimal fat gain. Thinking 14-20 weeks.

Add masteron or not?

Doses?


----------



## Will2309

@ghost.recon

How much cialis for lower blood pressure??


----------



## dtmiscool

Will2309 said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> How much cialis for lower blood pressure??


 2.5-5mg ED reduced blood pressure. I use 10mg EOD.


----------



## ghost.recon

u2pride said:


> Hi Ghost,
> 
> 1) Best nutrition % i.e. 50cho/30pro/20fat and how many fat minimum you could use
> 
> 2) Best AAS cutting cycle
> 
> 3) Best routine and how to periodize
> 
> Thanks


 1) I personally don't work off percentages as there are a lot of other factors that play a part such as lifestyle/job, PEDs or no PEDs, gender, medical history etc. But generally speaking for PEDs males I would limit fat as much as possible, protein would be based off 0.7-1g protein per lb BW but this is not definitve as it varies depending on goal but the important thing is consuming enough for maintaining and repairing muscle tissue. Carbohydrates around training times when immediate energy is required for intense activity. But the main message is low fat for PEDs.

2) There is no best, any AAS cycle can be used for any goal if you know how to. One of my current favourites at the moment: test, mast, primo, winny, and tren in the final stages of cut.

3) Any routine works providing it is enough to stimulate. I rotate my clients between high volume micro-progressive overload to lower volume DC, rest pause training with bits of FST7 worked into assistance work, progressive overload is crucial for this lower volume of training, trianing freq also increases massively to at least training the same body part twice a week and three times a week when focussing on targeting a lacking area. eg push, pull, legs, push pull legs, push (week 1 push focus) > pull, legs push, pull, legs push, pull (week 2 pull focus)


----------



## ghost.recon

MrBishi said:


> What do you mean by this?


 Daily monitoring (BP, BG etc), cycle design, education, cycle adjustments etc, blood work consultations, side effect management, nutritional and training approaches to optimising PEDs, dosing and timing of PEDs.


----------



## ghost.recon

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ghost.recon hi mate couple questions.....
> 
> 1) Is it ok to stack DHB with EQ ive read its not but no actual evidence as to why ?
> 
> 2) My wife has over active thyroid she is constantly lethargic and drained, what if anything can she take to help ?
> 
> 3) I used ralox to reduce gyno but it got worse so im now on 20mg nolva and it seems to be shrinking am I best keeping to nolva now ?
> 
> or can I go back to ralox that is said to be better to reduce/rid gyno ?


 1) yes its fine - do people stack test and masteron? or test and winny ? test and anavar? test and primo? test and proviron? Nothing wrong with stacking a pre 5alpha reduced hormone and then its 5 alpha reduced derivative. Would be slightly different in those sensitive to DHT however

2) over active? or under active? lethargy and drained are symptoms of under. if over then move around more, exercise, be active, eat more and look at getting a thyroidectomy, if under then thyroid replacement therapy required

3) it would have only gotten worse is you did not use it for long enough or you did not reduce or remove aromatising androgens and those that interact with the ER and PR receptor ie tren, trest, deca. It only seems like it has shrunk on nolva because you just continued SERM therapy, if you had stayed on ralox the same would have happened. Nolva is neurotoxic and reduces BMD so becareful of injury when lifting at max


----------



## ghost.recon

JakobJuice said:


> if you want my opinion to 1) I think both compounds are 2 complete different horses, while dhb gave me a nice full and veiny look with some thermo effects i.e. felt hotter but not freaking hot and sweaty like on tren, and somehow helped me to strip my love handles from any possible % of fat-- EQ makes me look somehow drier, new veins are appearing and gives me a better pump during workout, ah and I don't look as full as on dhb. no thermo effects or """local fat burning""".
> 
> So imo if you're looking for kinda side free compounds you could use both. just bro science and my own experience.


 with EQ you will get the effects of DHB if it is used long enough at a high enough dose


----------



## ghost.recon

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Ive ran 1000iu HCG a week since day 1 of using gear, and its made recovery a breeze, even when i've been on 2+ years sometimes. Bloodwork months after PCT to confirm.
> 
> I can get pharma HMG dirt cheap as i buy in bulk, like 50 boxes at a time,
> 
> What dose of HMG would be similar to HCG at 1000iu a week?
> 
> As if its something like 150iu surely i'd be better of using HMG as it mimics both LH and FSH and not just LH like hcg?
> 
> correct me if im wrong, been a while since i looked into this as always just use HCG
> 
> chees


 they are two completely different drugs, theres no equivalent dose because they both do not do the same thing.


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> Classic cycle of Test, Deca, D'bol, is there a "best" dosing strategy? Equal doses of Test and Deca? Twice as much Deca as Test? Or person dependant and have to find a sweet spot?
> 
> Relevant info - for older lifter/user.


 yes. equal, low high, high low both work. any combination the person will respond, how they respond in terms of side effects depends on other factors such as the rate at which they can metabolise nandrolone into its metabolites such as dihydronandrolone which is believed to be the cause of erectile dysfunction. Higher 5 alpha reductase activity = greater DHN = greater chances of ED. In this case less nandrolone would be more suitable.


----------



## ghost.recon

Devil said:


> Longest you'd advocate tren run?
> 
> Running 125mg test 300mg tren e and 50mcg t3 ed.
> 
> No sides except sweating, bloods aren't great but are still bottom range acceptable.
> 
> 30 mins cardio ed and a relatively healthy diet.
> 
> Id like to go for 8 months total provided progress doesn't stall.
> 
> Thanks fella.
> 
> @ghost.recon


 Depends on your life style, nutrition and training and how they affect your health markers. I've had clients on tren for 20 weeks + with my dosing protocols and his blood work has hardly shifted, chol improved, everything else stable and better than some off cycle or on TRT.

Get blood work done pre, during (8 week mark) assess and decide how long to continue or when to stop, health is number 1, if your cholesterol is crushed at week 8 then its not wise to continue.


----------



## ghost.recon

arbffgadm100 said:


> NPP, DHB or EQ for blast with low test (150-200). Goal is progress and mass with minimal fat gain. Thinking 14-20 weeks.
> 
> Add masteron or not?
> 
> Doses?


 Minimal fat gain is down to diet and training. Drugs will only mitigate this ever so slightly but its all down to what you consume.

Try Test 150mg + DHB 200-400mg + Primo 300-400mg + Tren E 100mg. can't stress enough how important diet is and its effect on allowing you to continue progressing throughout cycle. Not saying you eat crap but as an example, if you are eating processed garbage then this induces a high inflammatory phenotype in the body will will impair progress over time and limit the efficacy of your cycle. A diet low in inflammation that supports all your health markers is in a an optimised state to respond to physical activity ie performance, recovery, growth etc.


----------



## ghost.recon

Will2309 said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> How much cialis for lower blood pressure??


 40mg per day provides prostate protection as well


----------



## ghost.recon

Thanks for your questions today, will be back tomorrow. My aim is to be on at least once a day and I'll usually answer a bulk of questions before finishing so get your questions in.

Remember to be concise, please do not write me a story, it's not bed time. Space and format your replies accordingly, don't ask like 5 questions in one sentence because its hard to follow and looks messy.

As much as I appreciate the long questions, there are loads of members here and it's only fair everyone gets to ask their question, if I'm stuck answering a massive long one it takes away the time of others. I don't usually do this for free as I have my own clients to attend to but I like to give back to the community when I can.

Peace.

#upthegains


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> yes. equal, low high, high low both work. any combination the person will respond, how they respond in terms of side effects depends on other factors such as the rate at which they can metabolise nandrolone into its metabolites such as dihydronandrolone which is believed to be the cause of erectile dysfunction. Higher 5 alpha reductase activity = greater DHN = greater chances of ED. In this case less nandrolone would be more suitable.


 I previously ran Test at 400 and Deca at 300 with Adex, but no Caber, and did not have ED problems.

I bought caber for a tren run, would you advise running it with my next Test/Deca cycle at same/similar doses as before?

Thanks.


----------



## Will2309

dtmiscool said:


> 2.5-5mg ED reduced blood pressure. I use 10mg EOD.


 How many points does 10mg take off your bp reading and do you have any side effects on that dose ???

Dr has put me on 3 different bp meds and non of them agreed with me and I have come to the conclusion that any bp meds will come with some sides.

I am trying flaxseed oil and beetroot juice and the moment with more hiit style cardio.


----------



## u2pride

ghost.recon said:


> 1) I personally don't work off percentages as there are a lot of other factors that play a part such as lifestyle/job, PEDs or no PEDs, gender, medical history etc. But generally speaking for PEDs males I would limit fat as much as possible, protein would be based off 0.7-1g protein per lb BW but this is not definitve as it varies depending on goal but the important thing is consuming enough for maintaining and repairing muscle tissue. Carbohydrates around training times when immediate energy is required for intense activity. But the main message is low fat for PEDs.
> 
> 2) There is no best, any AAS cycle can be used for any goal if you know how to. One of my current favourites at the moment: test, mast, primo, winny, and tren in the final stages of cut.
> 
> 3) Any routine works providing it is enough to stimulate. I rotate my clients between high volume micro-progressive overload to lower volume DC, rest pause training with bits of FST7 worked into assistance work, progressive overload is crucial for this lower volume of training, trianing freq also increases massively to at least training the same body part twice a week and three times a week when focussing on targeting a lacking area. eg push, pull, legs, push pull legs, push (week 1 push focus) > pull, legs push, pull, legs push, pull (week 2 pull focus)


 Hi Ghost,

for protein 0.7-1gr lb is ok.

Could you make the same proportion with fat?


----------



## Avgs

ghost.recon said:


> Depends on your life style, nutrition and training and how they affect your health markers. I've had clients on tren for 20 weeks + with my dosing protocols and his blood work has hardly shifted, chol improved, everything else stable and better than some off cycle or on TRT.
> 
> Get blood work done pre, during (8 week mark) assess and decide how long to continue or when to stop, health is number 1, if your cholesterol is crushed at week 8 then its not wise to continue.


 What dosing did you recommend?


----------



## dtmiscool

Will2309 said:


> How many points does 10mg take off your bp reading and do you have any side effects on that dose ???
> 
> Dr has put me on 3 different bp meds and non of them agreed with me and I have come to the conclusion that any bp meds will come with some sides.
> 
> I am trying flaxseed oil and beetroot juice and the moment with more hiit style cardio.


 How much it takes off can vary each day on a number of factors. But it is reduced.

I dont get any bad sides from 10mg EOD except the occasion random erection. Sometimes a little headache but not very often.

I'm far from a doctor though, they'll know more about that stuff than myself.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ghost.recon said:


> 40mg per day provides prostate protection as well


 40mg a day is a lot, no?


----------



## Testdecadbol

@ghost.recon

U have see lots of client bloods?

How have you helped ppl with hdl and ldl?

Diet and cardio are on fleek. Any specific supps that worked well?

Is eq the safest roid for lipids?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ghost.recon said:


> Minimal fat gain is down to diet and training. Drugs will only mitigate this ever so slightly but its all down to what you consume.
> 
> Try Test 150mg + DHB 200-400mg + Primo 300-400mg + Tren E 100mg. can't stress enough how important diet is and its effect on allowing you to continue progressing throughout cycle. Not saying you eat crap but as an example, if you are eating processed garbage then this induces a high inflammatory phenotype in the body will will impair progress over time and limit the efficacy of your cycle. A diet low in inflammation that supports all your health markers is in a an optimised state to respond to physical activity ie performance, recovery, growth etc.


 I am well on board with the diet and other points you made. Thank you.

I don't want to use tren or primo (just used tren and dont want the injection volume of primo), so I guess you're saying DHB outperforms NPP and EQ then?

Also, masteron or no?

Very big thanks!!!


----------



## Will2309

dtmiscool said:


> How much it takes off can vary each day on a number of factors. But it is reduced.
> 
> I dont get any bad sides from 10mg EOD except the occasion random erection. Sometimes a little headache but not very often.
> 
> I'm far from a doctor though, they'll know more about that stuff than myself.


 I Think will order some and give it ago, I don't mind getting a random boner.

Cheers


----------



## Lancashiregent

@ghost.recon

Interesting that you mention DC training.

I have just started to implement this style of training and absolutely love it. Especially the fascia stretching.

Dante recommends 2g of protein per lb of BW, but this goes against the standard recommended 0.7 to 1g/lb BW.

Do you think 2g is overstating the requirements or will 1g per lb suffice?


----------



## Lancashiregent

Will2309 said:


> How many points does 10mg take off your bp reading and do you have any side effects on that dose ???
> 
> Dr has put me on 3 different bp meds and non of them agreed with me and I have come to the conclusion that any bp meds will come with some sides.
> 
> I am trying flaxseed oil and beetroot juice and the moment with more hiit style cardio.


 30mg ground flaxseed every day.

Shown to be as effective BP meds.

You need to watch this.


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> I previously ran Test at 400 and Deca at 300 with Adex, but no Caber, and did not have ED problems.
> 
> I bought caber for a tren run, would you advise running it with my next Test/Deca cycle at same/similar doses as before?
> 
> Thanks.


 Your test was sufficient at 400mg per week to produce enough DHT to maintain libido and erectile function

Personally I am not a fan of running 2 19-nor's together simply because of the fact that they both act on AR, ER and PR. AR activity is fine and is the basis of AAS use but when things start interacting with receptors that we don't want, things start to get a bit tricky immediately and especially long term. It can increase susceptibility to estrogenic side effects regardless of controlling E2, of course controlling E2 when using 19-nor's is a must. Caber does not do much apart from lower prolactin but prolactin can be managed through controlling E2. So if you're having to to reduce your prolactin levels with caber, then it you should probably get your E2 in check first.

I would suggest Test/Tren/Mast+Proviron


----------



## ghost.recon

u2pride said:


> Hi Ghost,
> 
> for protein 0.7-1gr lb is ok.
> 
> Could you make the same proportion with fat?


 No, I only add primary fat sources when looking to increase total calories. I rely on trace fats from other sources instead.


----------



## ghost.recon

Avgs said:


> What dosing did you recommend?


 It varies depending at which point of the cycle you are at. There is no fixed dose throughout when I use tren and it depends on the goal cut/bulk/recomp etc. But in general 50mg Tren Ace M/W/F is effective.


----------



## ghost.recon

arbffgadm100 said:


> 40mg a day is a lot, no?


 No? 40mg is the clinical dose prescribed for pulmonary arterial hypertension since at least 2015 http://cochranelibrary-wiley.com/o/cochrane/clcentral/articles/216/CN-01087216/frame.html

Lower doses are used for other indications but 40mg would cover all of those.


----------



## ghost.recon

Testdecadbol said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> U have see lots of client bloods?
> 
> How have you helped ppl with hdl and ldl?
> 
> Diet and cardio are on fleek. Any specific supps that worked well?
> 
> Is eq the safest roid for lipids?


 Yeah I've seen hundreds of client blood work

I have my own protocols for cholesterol management (drug, nutritional, lifestyle, and exercise approaches)

There are lots of supps such as Niacin

There is no safest roid for lipids, all androgens impair cholesterol, some more than others, but in general testosterone would be the safest


----------



## ghost.recon

arbffgadm100 said:


> I am well on board with the diet and other points you made. Thank you.
> 
> I don't want to use tren or primo (just used tren and dont want the injection volume of primo), so I guess you're saying DHB outperforms NPP and EQ then?
> 
> Also, masteron or no?
> 
> Very big thanks!!!


 I am using primo at the moment and find that the injection isn't too bad when it's dosed at 150mg/ml or 200mg/ml but at 100mg/ml it can be quite a lot.

Out performs in terms of what? I prefer DHB as an androgen due to the fact that 1) it doesn't interact with the estrogen, progesterone and androgen receptor at the same time unlike nandrolone and 2) it doesn't convert to estrogen or have the BP spiking effects of EQ, less E2 and RBC management.

Hell yeah mast


----------



## ghost.recon

Lancashiregent said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> Interesting that you mention DC training.
> 
> I have just started to implement this style of training and absolutely love it. Especially the fascia stretching.
> 
> Dante recommends 2g of protein per lb of BW, but this goes against the standard recommended 0.7 to 1g/lb BW.
> 
> Do you think 2g is overstating the requirements or will 1g per lb suffice?


 I love DC, my clients use DC in prep and off season.

There are so many rate limited factors when it comes to muscle growth nutrition and hormones are just two of many. As long as you are eating the required amount sufficient for recovery then hypertrophy would depend on a protein surplus and of course a total calorie surplus which is where the rest of your calories come from carbs and fats. You can eat 2g per lb BW but if you are still in a deficit then you will not grow as well as someone who is in a surplus consuming 0.7-1g. See where I'm coming from? Context is everything. If you fancy trying one of my diet plans PM me.


----------



## ghost.recon

Thank you again for the refreshing questions. Nice to see some questions about nutrition as well. I know that this AMA is in a section based around AAS but it would be nice to discuss more about nutritional and training elements in the context of AAS and PEDs!

Peace


----------



## Devil

ghost.recon said:


> Thank you again for the refreshing questions. Nice to see some questions about nutrition as well. I know that this AMA is in a section based around AAS but it would be nice to discuss more about nutritional and training elements in the context of AAS and PEDs!
> 
> Peace


 What's your views on the generic 5-a day. I.e how much fruit and veg in your opinion is sufficient for optimal health, micros etc etc. Any prefered sources?

Thanks bud.


----------



## UK2USA

Gaining muscle as we age is more difficult than when we are younger, IMO. Even when enhanced I think an older body responds more slowly than a younger one, again IMO.

Add to this the fact that older bodies recover more slowly, and can probably take less abuse in the gym than younger ones, do you have a different protocol for older lifters? Other than the standard 300 to 500 calorie surplus and a gram of protein per pound of body weight, do the macros matter much, other than lower on the fats?

Sorry if that's a bit of a run on.....I am 65 years old.


----------



## Whoremoan1

so 40mg cialis ed is safe for heart, health etc ?


----------



## MrBishi

ghost.recon said:


> Personally I am not a fan of running 2 19-nor's together simply because of the fact that they both act on AR, ER and PR. AR activity is fine and is the basis of AAS use but when things start interacting with receptors that we don't want, things start to get a bit tricky immediately and especially long term. It can increase susceptibility to estrogenic side effects regardless of controlling E2, of course controlling E2 when using 19-nor's is a must.


 You say you don't like using two 19-nors, can you elaborate more please (what is AR, ER, PR?) why you don't like it.

I have been toying with trying 300mg Test, Tren & NPP for my next cycle.

I was reading about a certain synergy when mixing Nandrolone and Tren.

From another forum:

the synergy (Atleast in animal studies) is both deca and tren's interaction with igf molecules.
nandrolone in rat studies increased igfb3 in all tissue and decreased igfbp4. 
nand also increases igf-1 but tren is shown to do this to a greater extent (in animals) so with nand decreasing igfbp-4 that means there's less igf-1 binding to this protein and more available to bind to the receptor.
igfbp-3 being increased will enhance the half life of igf-1. couple this with the igf-1 increase from tren and you get the synergy....atleast on paper!


----------



## Will2309

Lancashiregent said:


> 30mg ground flaxseed every day.
> 
> Shown to be as effective BP meds.
> 
> You need to watch this.


 I have watched that video before mate, that's why I got some flaxseed oil soft gels in the first place.

I have been on them 3 weeks now but I have read it takes a good 3 months before they lower bp if they do at all.

I have been having a glass beetroot juice in the morning as well.

Hopefully it will drop my bp cos I don't want to go in any meds.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## Ultrasonic

Will2309 said:


> I have watched that video before mate, that's why I got some flaxseed oil soft gels in the first place.


 The research referred to in the video was on ground flax seed NOT flax seed oil.

I like adding ground flax (linseed) to my breakfast porridge, as it gives it a slightly thicker consistency without being dry.


----------



## Lancashiregent

Yes. I 100% give credit to @Ultrasonic for the video.

In fact as I type this I'm drinking my daily smoothie made up of, amongst other things, 30g ground flaxseed.

Thanks ultra!


----------



## Lancashiregent

Will2309 said:


> I have watched that video before mate, that's why I got some flaxseed oil soft gels in the first place.
> 
> I have been on them 3 weeks now but I have read it takes a good 3 months before they lower bp if they do at all.
> 
> I have been having a glass beetroot juice in the morning as well.
> 
> Hopefully it will drop my bp cos I don't want to go in any meds.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


 Sure.

Beetroot juice is also recommend by cardiologists for BP.

Try Hibiscus Tea, celery and also google Ivy's Mukta Vati tablets which are a great cheap and easy way of bringing BP down.

Also this thread

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/305437-blood-pressure-on-cycle/?page=2


----------



## Testdecadbol

ghost.recon said:


> I have my own protocols for cholesterol management (drug, nutritional, lifestyle, and exercise approaches)


 Could you elaborate on those?


----------



## Avgs

Lancashiregent said:


> Yes. I 100% give credit to @Ultrasonic for the video.
> 
> In fact as I type this I'm drinking my daily smoothie made up of, amongst other things, 30g ground flaxseed.
> 
> Thanks ultra!


 30g or 30mg?


----------



## Lancashiregent

Avgs said:


> 30g or 30mg?


 30g. I buy Neal's Yard Flaxseed from Holland And Barett


----------



## arbffgadm100

ghost.recon said:


> No? 40mg is the clinical dose prescribed for pulmonary arterial hypertension since at least 2015 http://cochranelibrary-wiley.com/o/cochrane/clcentral/articles/216/CN-01087216/frame.html
> 
> Lower doses are used for other indications but 40mg would cover all of those.


 Fair enough pal. Would turn me into a walking thobber if I took 40mg!! Ha


----------



## arbffgadm100

ghost.recon said:


> I am using primo at the moment and find that the injection isn't too bad when it's dosed at 150mg/ml or 200mg/ml but at 100mg/ml it can be quite a lot.
> 
> Out performs in terms of what? I prefer DHB as an androgen due to the fact that 1) it doesn't interact with the estrogen, progesterone and androgen receptor at the same time unlike nandrolone and 2) it doesn't convert to estrogen or have the BP spiking effects of EQ, less E2 and RBC management.
> 
> Hell yeah mast


 I only use SG stuff and I think their primo is 100mg/ml.


----------



## Ultrasonic

Avgs said:


> 30g or 30mg?


 LOL! They're plant seeds not a drug  .


----------



## arbffgadm100

ghost.recon said:


> they are two completely different drugs, theres no equivalent dose because they both do not do the same thing.


 Thanks for this.

Could you elaborate on how one would use HMG in the absence of HCG, and whether you think this is better than the opposite case i.e., HCG and no HMG?

Basically, dose for HMG only, and dose for HCG only, and which is superior for retaining testicular volume and function.

Cheers


----------



## Will2309

Lancashiregent said:


> Sure.
> 
> Beetroot juice is also recommend by cardiologists for BP.
> 
> Try Hibiscus Tea, celery and also google Ivy's Mukta Vati tablets which are a great cheap and easy way of bringing BP down.
> 
> Also this thread
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/305437-blood-pressure-on-cycle/?page=2


 I have a read.

I have tried hibiscus tea even though it did work slightly I was always bloated after a cup of it.

Do all the other natural options.

Hawthorne and celery etc.


----------



## Will2309

Ultrasonic said:


> The research referred to in the video was on ground flax seed NOT flax seed oil.
> 
> I like adding ground flax (linseed) to my breakfast porridge, as it gives it a slightly thicker consistency without being dry.


 I see. I just thought they would do the same job. Cheers for pointing that out.


----------



## Ultrasonic

Will2309 said:


> I see. I just thought they would do the same job.


 We don't know. There are other things present in the seeds but not the oil that could be having an effect.


----------



## Will2309

Ultrasonic said:


> We don't know. There are other things present in the seeds but not the oil that could be having an effect.


 Well I have ordered a 2.5 kilo bag of the seeds see what happens but I tested my bp today and it's the best it's been for a long time. Weather it's the beetroot or extra cardio or cleaning my diet up I don't know but it moving in the right direction.

My apologies @ghost.recon for talking about my bp and not asking a aas question.


----------



## Ultrasonic

Will2309 said:


> Well I have ordered a 2.5 kilo bag of the seeds


 Do you have something to grind the seeds? If the seeds aren't ground I think they just pass through the body whole unfortunately.


----------



## u2pride

ghost.recon said:


> No, I only add primary fat sources when looking to increase total calories. I rely on trace fats from other sources instead.


 @ghost.recon could you explain that?


----------



## ghost.recon

Devil said:


> What's your views on the generic 5-a day. I.e how much fruit and veg in your opinion is sufficient for optimal health, micros etc etc. Any prefered sources?
> 
> Thanks bud.


 Organic is best

5 a day is not enough today, accelerated farming methods and crop harvesting means the micronutrient content of fruits and vegetables and even taste today is inferior to that of the past.

Consume at least a portion of vegetables of fruits with each meal combined with a good multivitamin - I personally put my clients on the male multivitamin or female one from myprotein.

Stack with extra vitamin D especially being in the UK majority of us are deficient even if its sub clinical.

Oranges, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, banana (good preworkout because of potassium)

Broccoli, asparagus, green leafy vegetables, pak choi is a fav,


----------



## Pancake'

What's your opinion on acrylamide being carcinogenic in food? https://www.fhi.no/en/projects/fp6---heatox---heat-generated-food-/


----------



## Devil

ghost.recon said:


> Organic is best
> 
> 5 a day is not enough today, accelerated farming methods and crop harvesting means the micronutrient content of fruits and vegetables and even taste today is inferior to that of the past.
> 
> Consume at least a portion of vegetables of fruits with each meal combined with a good multivitamin - I personally put my clients on the male multivitamin or female one from myprotein.
> 
> Stack with extra vitamin D especially being in the UK majority of us are deficient even if its sub clinical.
> 
> Oranges, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, banana (good preworkout because of potassium)
> 
> Broccoli, asparagus, green leafy vegetables, pak choi is a fav,


 Great, not seen a credible response on this topic until now - thank you.


----------



## ishadow

Devil said:


> Great, not seen a credible response on this topic until now - thank you.


 After this I've been trying to find the best prices haha.


----------



## Devil

ishadow said:


> After this I've been trying to find the best prices haha.


 Might have to up my mixed cheap frozen veg source to something a bit better aha


----------



## ishadow

Devil said:


> Might have to up my mixed cheap frozen veg source to something a bit better aha


 Aldi mixed veg medley all the way mate  79p a bag! Haha.


----------



## ishadow

Devil said:


> Might have to up my mixed cheap frozen veg source to something a bit better aha


 You can get 240 protein alpha multivitamins for £18.73 off the site direct deliveried.

So £18.73 for 120 days worth (2 tabs a day)


----------



## ishadow

Is it possible to temporarily drop water weight for a week while on a Deca cycle?

Ive got no problem with the added water retention from Deca and Mk677 but I've got an unplanned holiday coming in the middle of my Deca cycle.


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> Gaining muscle as we age is more difficult than when we are younger, IMO. Even when enhanced I think an older body responds more slowly than a younger one, again IMO.
> 
> Add to this the fact that older bodies recover more slowly, and can probably take less abuse in the gym than younger ones, do you have a different protocol for older lifters? Other than the standard 300 to 500 calorie surplus and a gram of protein per pound of body weight, do the macros matter much, other than lower on the fats?
> 
> Sorry if that's a bit of a run on.....I am 65 years old.


 You are right, it is very true that hypertrophy is more difficult with age. Scientifically it makes sense. Every cell in our body has a limited number of cell divisions before they reach a stage called cellular senescence where they can no longer divide, it is a protective mechanism against cancer, but even then cancer can by pass this process. When a cell becomes senescent, its metabolic processes decrease drastically, it is still alive it just no longer works as efficiently as it used to. A good example is skin, as we age skin becomes senescent and loses its elasticity and ability to regenerate collagen etc. as a result its appearance also changes.

My nutritional approaches are pretty much the same regardless of age but I do focus a lot more on digestive and gut health.


----------



## ghost.recon

Whoremoan1 said:


> so 40mg cialis ed is safe for heart, health etc ?


 Yes


----------



## ghost.recon

MrBishi said:


> You say you don't like using two 19-nors, can you elaborate more please (what is AR, ER, PR?) why you don't like it.
> 
> I have been toying with trying 300mg Test, Tren & NPP for my next cycle.
> 
> I was reading about a certain synergy when mixing Nandrolone and Tren.
> 
> From another forum:
> 
> the synergy (Atleast in animal studies) is both deca and tren's interaction with igf molecules.
> nandrolone in rat studies increased igfb3 in all tissue and decreased igfbp4.
> nand also increases igf-1 but tren is shown to do this to a greater extent (in animals) so with nand decreasing igfbp-4 that means there's less igf-1 binding to this protein and more available to bind to the receptor.
> igfbp-3 being increased will enhance the half life of igf-1. couple this with the igf-1 increase from tren and you get the synergy....atleast on paper!


 AR - Androgen Receptor
PR - Progesterone Receptor
ER - Estrogen Receptor

In the male body, there should not be any exogenous modulation of PR and ER. 19-nors do exactly this which is why it has mental side effects such as behaviour, anxiety etc.

The person who wrote that in another forum doesn't understand what IGF binding proteins do. He is wrong and it makes no sense. IGFBP's act as carrier proteins for IGF1 signalling, they can enhance or attenuate.


----------



## ghost.recon

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> Could you elaborate on how one would use HMG in the absence of HCG, and whether you think this is better than the opposite case i.e., HCG and no HMG?
> 
> Basically, dose for HMG only, and dose for HCG only, and which is superior for retaining testicular volume and function.
> 
> Cheers


 75 iu per week

HMG would be superior


----------



## ghost.recon

u2pride said:


> @ghost.recon could you explain that?


 The body doesn't need a lot of fats for normal function, it's primary use is for insulation.


----------



## ghost.recon

Pancake' said:


> What's your opinion on acrylamide being carcinogenic in food? https://www.fhi.no/en/projects/fp6---heatox---heat-generated-food-/


 It's a carcinogen, we are exposed to many carcinogens everyday, just another one to the list. We will all get cancer eventually, it's a part of aging.


----------



## Lancashiregent

TRT/Cruise using Test E

Would it be optimal to run

150mg every 7 days?

or

75mg every 3.5 days?

Any real world difference between the two in blood level/stable test levels?

Many thanks


----------



## ghost.recon

ishadow said:


> Is it possible to temporarily drop water weight for a week while on a Deca cycle?
> 
> Ive got no problem with the added water retention from Deca and Mk677 but I've got an unplanned holiday coming in the middle of my Deca cycle.


 Not really no, water weight often just excess BF. If you are lean then there is no "water" to store.


----------



## u2pride

ghost.recon said:


> The body doesn't need a lot of fats for normal function, it's primary use is for insulation.


 In total nutrient partiton, 20% calorie from fat, could be ok?


----------



## ghost.recon

Lancashiregent said:


> TRT/Cruise using Test E
> 
> Would it be optimal to run
> 
> 150mg every 7 days?
> 
> or
> 
> 75mg every 3.5 days?
> 
> Any real world difference between the two in blood level/stable test levels?
> 
> Many thanks


 Everyone is slightly different in terms of optimal TRT dose. Different rates of metabolism.

100-150mg every 7 days would be better.

Not much real world difference.


----------



## ghost.recon

u2pride said:


> In total nutrient partiton, 20% calorie from fat, could be ok?


 5-10% would still suffice


----------



## UK2USA

ghost.recon said:


> You are right, it is very true that hypertrophy is more difficult with age. Scientifically it makes sense. Every cell in our body has a limited number of cell divisions before they reach a stage called cellular senescence where they can no longer divide, it is a protective mechanism against cancer, but even then cancer can by pass this process. When a cell becomes senescent, its metabolic processes decrease drastically, it is still alive it just no longer works as efficiently as it used to. A good example is skin, as we age skin becomes senescent and loses its elasticity and ability to regenerate collagen etc. as a result its appearance also changes.
> 
> My nutritional approaches are pretty much the same regardless of age but I do focus a lot more on digestive and gut health.


 So when it comes to hypertrophy in older lifters, do you think it requires greater amounts of aas, better combinations for added synergy, or are there specific aas which would be more appropriate than others?


----------



## ghost.recon

UK2USA said:


> So when it comes to hypertrophy in older lifters, do you think it requires greater amounts of aas, better combinations for added synergy, or are there specific aas which would be more appropriate than others?


 Yes, yes, and yes.

I wouldn't opt for more AAS as with age, health markers are more susceptible to changes.

Better combinations and avoiding certain combinations/compounds. Adverse effect limitation is key with age.


----------



## jd

Can hcg be mixed and put into syringes and stored in the freezer? Have read some contradicting info online and don't want to store it in the fridge where the kids go


----------



## GeordieOak70

ghost.recon said:


> Yes, yes, and yes.
> 
> I wouldn't opt for more AAS as with age, health markers are more susceptible to changes.
> 
> Better combinations and avoiding certain combinations/compounds. Adverse effect limitation is key with age.


 Could you give your opinion on what AAS would suit an older guy like myself ( 48 ) im about to start 300mg test e 300mg DHB 50mg winny.


----------



## ghost.recon

GeordieOak70 said:


> Could you give your opinion on what AAS would suit an older guy like myself ( 48 ) im about to start 300mg test e 300mg DHB 50mg winny.


 Test

Proviron (MPB and BPH dependent)

Primo

Mast (MPB and BPH dependent)

Anavar

Winstrol

Tbol


----------



## ghost.recon

jd said:


> Can hcg be mixed and put into syringes and stored in the freezer? Have read some contradicting info online and don't want to store it in the fridge where the kids go


 Yes 100%


----------



## MarkyMark

@ghost.recon

1. Following on from your preveously answered question regarding HMG in replacement of HCG dosing you said 75iu per week. Can you confirm if you mean shot once a week or split? I could happily budget HMG @ 75iu each week instead of HCG if this would be the case but seems to little? (I blast and Cruse)

2. Again following another answer regarding keeping your clients on TREN for extended periods of time permitting blood markers. What TREN and test doses would this be that your clients would be running (typically).

3. I have been running TREN A for 3 weeks now with a relitivly clean diet full of fibre and as little sugar as possible. In addition to this running quite a few cholesterol boosting sups. I have been using Niacin since the start at 2 grams taken before bed to sleep through flush. I had a blood test done a few days back and my cholesterol was amazing (1.1 HDL, 1.7 LDL, 0.5 trig). I think it's the niacin that is mainly assisting with this.

Question regarding Niacin - does taking one large dose become a state of diminishing return if taken to high at once as I can tollorate 3 to 4 grams in one shot. I cannot take it during the day as looking like a beetroot for a hr after don't look cool in the office! In other words is 2 grams 2 times a day going to have better result on lipids than 4 grams all in one go in the evening before bed?

4. Does anavar really have any effect on collegen synthesis and help aid repairing joints?


----------



## ghost.recon

MarkyMark said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> 1. Following on from your preveously answered question regarding HMG in replacement of HCG dosing you said 75iu per week. Can you confirm if you mean shot once a week or split? I could happily budget HMG @ 75iu each week instead of HCG if this would be the case but seems to little? (I blast and Cruse)
> 
> 2. Again following another answer regarding keeping your clients on TREN for extended periods of time permitting blood markers. What TREN and test doses would this be that your clients would be running (typically).
> 
> 3. I have been running TREN A for 3 weeks now with a relitivly clean diet full of fibre and as little sugar as possible. In addition to this running quite a few cholesterol boosting sups. I have been using Niacin since the start at 2 grams taken before bed to sleep through flush. I had a blood test done a few days back and my cholesterol was amazing (1.1 HDL, 1.7 LDL, 0.5 trig). I think it's the niacin that is mainly assisting with this.
> 
> Question regarding Niacin - does taking one large dose become a state of diminishing return if taken to high at once as I can tollorate 3 to 4 grams in one shot. I cannot take it during the day as looking like a beetroot for a hr after don't look cool in the office! In other words is 2 grams 2 times a day going to have better result on lipids than 4 grams all in one go in the evening before bed?
> 
> 4. Does anavar really have any effect on collegen synthesis and help aid repairing joints?


 1. Split. Who says it seems too little based on what?

2. You'd have to be my client to find out, it's not as simple as a set dose, the dosage changes and adjusts according to response, side effects and bloods. Client start on as low as 10mg trenbolone acetate per single dose. Anyone can whack a load of tren but the beauty of bodybuilding is making use of as little as possible while optimising training and nutrition, now that is impressive.

3. Good job on the HDL, very impressed with that mate. To avoid flushing, split your total daily dose into small amounts throughout the day. Instead of 4g in a single dose, spread it across say 4 meals at 1g per meal. Save the largest dose before bed.

4. Yes any AAS will increase anabolic of proteins.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ghost.recon said:


> 1. Split. Who says it seems too little based on what?
> 
> 2. You'd have to be my client to find out, it's not as simple as a set dose, the dosage changes and adjusts according to response, side effects and bloods. Client start on as low as 10mg trenbolone acetate per single dose. Anyone can whack a load of tren but the beauty of bodybuilding is making use of as little as possible while optimising training and nutrition, now that is impressive.
> 
> 3. Good job on the HDL, very impressed with that mate. To avoid flushing, split your total daily dose into small amounts throughout the day. Instead of 4g in a single dose, spread it across say 4 meals at 1g per meal. Save the largest dose before bed.
> 
> 4. Yes any AAS will increase anabolic of proteins.


 Awesome. Going to switch to 2x37.5iu of HMG weekly and ditch the HCG altogether.

Next q:

Deciding whether to add 100mg masteron to a cruise dose of test, or perhaps even primo at 100mg. Worth bothering with?


----------



## MarkyMark

ghost.recon said:


> 1. Split. Who says it seems too little based on what?
> 
> 2. You'd have to be my client to find out, it's not as simple as a set dose, the dosage changes and adjusts according to response, side effects and bloods. Client start on as low as 10mg trenbolone acetate per single dose. Anyone can whack a load of tren but the beauty of bodybuilding is making use of as little as possible while optimising training and nutrition, now that is impressive.
> 
> 3. Good job on the HDL, very impressed with that mate. To avoid flushing, split your total daily dose into small amounts throughout the day. Instead of 4g in a single dose, spread it across say 4 meals at 1g per meal. Save the largest dose before bed.
> 
> 4. Yes any AAS will increase anabolic of proteins.


 1. Just studies I read about people who had little to no sperm count they had to use 75 to 150iu 3 times a week along with hcg. However I guess my goal and there's are different and thus should not require as high dose.

I assume I can mix 75iu vial shoot half on one day and then keep it on the fridge till 3 days later? Or is HMG delicate to store in this way and possibly reduce potency?

2. Currently running the TREN A at 400mg per week and test at 150mg per week so i don't need to run AI and thus far no gyno issues what so ever.

Does running low test reduce the muscle building effect of the TREN ran at higher dose? Should I up the test? FIY I am bulking.

3. I even flush with a 500mg with food! So does splitting it throughout the day have a more positive effect on lipids?

4. Thanks


----------



## TinTin10

Shits just gone right to pot! Wondering if you can help:

1ST ISSUE

Im cutting short my 1st tren run because of mental sides.

Been doing 250 TTM pw with 12.5mg exe and 0.5 caber twice pw, had no sides until around week 9.

For the past 2 weeks ive been having worsening sides like anxiety issues, extreme jealously etc etc so I think there is no other choice than packing it in.

Wondering if youve got any advice on this? i.e cycle changes for more manageable sides/confirming Tren isnt for you steer clear.

2ND ISSUE

Got a holiday coming up 8th July, now im dropping Tren, id like to add some Winstrol in to maintain strength on the cut and for aesthetics for holiday.

Always run TUDCA with Winny but wondering how long after my last Winny tab would it be safe for me to drink alcohol? And is that a viable option?

3RD ISSUE

Just took the 1st 250mg tab of DNP as part of cut plan for holiday. Would have ran for 15 days then left a week to come off and fill back up.

This is my 3rd DNP run. 1st no issues. 2nd started developing slightly red Hives on arsecheeks and backs of legs.

This time ive done the 1st pill at 7am and by 12noon ive got about 8 bright red hives on arsecheeks and backs of legs.

Took a benadryl and have citrazine on hand.

Appreciate any feedback here bc its was all going great and within a couple of weeks everythings gone to s**t!

Thanks

Would you dump the DNP now? or increase Anti Hist to see if sides subside?


----------



## jd

What's your thoughts of a 300mg pow test e cycle as your first?for say 20 weeks.

first 10 weeks cutting up while the test helping keep hold of muscle mass then 10 weeks of a slow bulk? Rather than the standard 500mg cycle?

cheers


----------



## Whoremoan1

mast p or mast e ? any major difference apart from half life? will they both produce same results?


----------



## Bull Terrier

About a month ago whilst doing bench press I felt a sharp spasm in my right pec and the bar fell.

At first I feared the absolute worst, i.e. that I had torn the pec. However I still had full range of movement, albeit with discomfort. Furthermore there was no pain, redness or swelling. Since then I tried a few times to do bench press, but when I felt discomfort I simply called it a day. Last week I managed to do a few sets with a half decent weight and had no pain. Thus this morning I went at it, but after plenty of warm-up sets and with understanding that I would abort at first sign of trouble. I got up to a bit below 100kg, easily within my limits but then on second set with this weight I felt the same damn spasm and again the bar came down.

Right now I'm not any worse off than I was a month ago, but I don't know what the problem is. I don't think I've torn anything, but I don't know what I need to do to get better again. I really don't like being out of action on bench press and I'm terrified that I may be out of action for a long time to come.

The pain is localized pretty much in the part of pec where it attaches to front deltoid. The pain is not extreme and I can still move everything. No visible signs of detachment or redness.

Please tell me what I need to do to get better and back to it!


----------



## ghost.recon

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome. Going to switch to 2x37.5iu of HMG weekly and ditch the HCG altogether.
> 
> Next q:
> 
> Deciding whether to add 100mg masteron to a cruise dose of test, or perhaps even primo at 100mg. Worth bothering with?


 Yes would be worth it 100%

Mast will improve well being, cognitive function, slow down AD and other neurodegenerative conditions, good for erectile function and what not.

Primo increase anabolic potential on minimum androgens without offsetting health markers.

As long as diet and training is optimal, 100mg Mast and 100mg Primo would be nice touch to a cruise. Would not suggest for those sensitive to blood marker fluctuations and those coming off a harsh blast with blood work like smashed buttholes


----------



## ghost.recon

MarkyMark said:


> 1. Just studies I read about people who had little to no sperm count they had to use 75 to 150iu 3 times a week along with hcg. However I guess my goal and there's are different and thus should not require as high dose.
> 
> I assume I can mix 75iu vial shoot half on one day and then keep it on the fridge till 3 days later? Or is HMG delicate to store in this way and possibly reduce potency?
> 
> 2. Currently running the TREN A at 400mg per week and test at 150mg per week so i don't need to run AI and thus far no gyno issues what so ever.
> 
> Does running low test reduce the muscle building effect of the TREN ran at higher dose? Should I up the test? FIY I am bulking.
> 
> 3. I even flush with a 500mg with food! So does splitting it throughout the day have a more positive effect on lipids?
> 
> 4. Thanks


 1. Most of it is anecdotal. Better to work off clinical guidlines for specific medical conditions and then extrapolate that into a suitable dose for bodybuilding purposes. It's how things should be done. Yes you can mix, better to freeze.

2. No it doesn't

3. Splitting a day would lessen the flushing but would not affect the pro-lipid affects. Try 250mg split or whack it all before bed, no one can see you when you are asleep!


----------



## ghost.recon

TinTin10 said:


> Shits just gone right to pot! Wondering if you can help:
> 
> 1ST ISSUE
> 
> Im cutting short my 1st tren run because of mental sides.
> 
> Been doing 250 TTM pw with 12.5mg exe and 0.5 caber twice pw, had no sides until around week 9.
> 
> For the past 2 weeks ive been having worsening sides like anxiety issues, extreme jealously etc etc so I think there is no other choice than packing it in.
> 
> Wondering if youve got any advice on this? i.e cycle changes for more manageable sides/confirming Tren isnt for you steer clear.
> 
> 2ND ISSUE
> 
> Got a holiday coming up 8th July, now im dropping Tren, id like to add some Winstrol in to maintain strength on the cut and for aesthetics for holiday.
> 
> Always run TUDCA with Winny but wondering how long after my last Winny tab would it be safe for me to drink alcohol? And is that a viable option?
> 
> 3RD ISSUE
> 
> Just took the 1st 250mg tab of DNP as part of cut plan for holiday. Would have ran for 15 days then left a week to come off and fill back up.
> 
> This is my 3rd DNP run. 1st no issues. 2nd started developing slightly red Hives on arsecheeks and backs of legs.
> 
> This time ive done the 1st pill at 7am and by 12noon ive got about 8 bright red hives on arsecheeks and backs of legs.
> 
> Took a benadryl and have citrazine on hand.
> 
> Appreciate any feedback here bc its was all going great and within a couple of weeks everythings gone to s**t!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Would you dump the DNP now? or increase Anti Hist to see if sides subside?


 Sounds quite complicated, don't think a simple reply can help solve this. Ideally, you want someone to work with you and monitor your PEDs use and combinations, trial and error until something effective is found. @arbffgadm100 would be able to vouch for my ability to do this. I believe you can still use tren, we just need to figure out the best way to do it.

You can drink alcohol day after stopping winstrol, just stay on TUDCA and don't over do it straight off the bat

DNP is pretty toxic, I wouldn't suggest it. You would be better off with a well structured diet and training regime with a few PEDs included.


----------



## ghost.recon

jd said:


> What's your thoughts of a 300mg pow test e cycle as your first?for say 20 weeks.
> 
> first 10 weeks cutting up while the test helping keep hold of muscle mass then 10 weeks of a slow bulk? Rather than the standard 500mg cycle?
> 
> cheers


 Very good, definitely recommend


----------



## ghost.recon

Whoremoan1 said:


> mast p or mast e ? any major difference apart from half life? will they both produce same results?


 One will stay in the system for longer and allow greater peak plasma levels:volume ratio ie mast e.

Same results yes.

I notice with Mast E my skin gets oilier.


----------



## ghost.recon

Bull Terrier said:


> About a month ago whilst doing bench press I felt a sharp spasm in my right pec and the bar fell.
> 
> At first I feared the absolute worst, i.e. that I had torn the pec. However I still had full range of movement, albeit with discomfort. Furthermore there was no pain, redness or swelling. Since then I tried a few times to do bench press, but when I felt discomfort I simply called it a day. Last week I managed to do a few sets with a half decent weight and had no pain. Thus this morning I went at it, but after plenty of warm-up sets and with understanding that I would abort at first sign of trouble. I got up to a bit below 100kg, easily within my limits but then on second set with this weight I felt the same damn spasm and again the bar came down.
> 
> Right now I'm not any worse off than I was a month ago, but I don't know what the problem is. I don't think I've torn anything, but I don't know what I need to do to get better again. I really don't like being out of action on bench press and I'm terrified that I may be out of action for a long time to come.
> 
> The pain is localized pretty much in the part of pec where it attaches to front deltoid. The pain is not extreme and I can still move everything. No visible signs of detachment or redness.
> 
> Please tell me what I need to do to get better and back to it!


 Sounds like partial muscle,ligament or tendon tear.

Rest it and let it heal.

No heavy lifting at all.

Do light cable work to keep the area vascularised which will enhance recovery.

A little IGF/HGH in the area would do you good.


----------



## Pancake'

Ghost, will taking a hot bath or shower post workout further aid/promote recovery?


----------



## Simon90

Two questions:

1: How detrimental is working nights towards progress?(providing nutrition is in check, training/progressive overload in check, and sleep even though quality is not best still getting 8/9hours a day) most shifts are 10pm-4am

2: is it true anadrol is best taken on an empty stomach? And is it best do do longer at lower dose (e.g 6 weeks at 50mg or 3/4 weeks at 100mg)

Thanks in advance


----------



## ghost.recon

Simon90 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1: How detrimental is working nights towards progress?(providing nutrition is in check, training/progressive overload in check, and sleep even though quality is not best still getting 8/9hours a day) most shifts are 10pm-4am
> 
> 2: is it true anadrol is best taken on an empty stomach? And is it best do do longer at lower dose (e.g 6 weeks at 50mg or 3/4 weeks at 100mg)
> 
> Thanks in advance


 It's difficult to say especially when your circadian rhythm will be off. The main factor in this will be sleep quality and sunlight exposure. I suggest investing in some vitamin D, get proper black out blinds, when it's time to sleep you sleep, no staying up etc. Some sleep aid such as 5-HTP providing no use of SSRI antidepressants can improve quality of sleep. The main detriment I can see from this would be recovery time and mood due to working nights, but try and ensure sleep is bang on and you'll be okay.

Any oral AAS is best consumed with a fatty meal, it will enhance absorption. I would opt for the longer at lower dose. Even 25mg anadrol per day for 8 weeks is effective.


----------



## ghost.recon

Pancake' said:


> Ghost, will taking a hot bath or shower post workout further aid/promote recovery?


 Yes, it will improve blood flow, removal of waste products, delivery of nutrients to target muscle. Massage is also very effective, including happy ending.


----------



## Simon90

ghost.recon said:


> It's difficult to say especially when your circadian rhythm will be off. The main factor in this will be sleep quality and sunlight exposure. I suggest investing in some vitamin D, get proper black out blinds, when it's time to sleep you sleep, no staying up etc. Some sleep aid such as 5-HTP providing no use of SSRI antidepressants can improve quality of sleep. The main detriment I can see from this would be recovery time and mood due to working nights, but try and ensure sleep is bang on and you'll be okay.
> 
> Any oral AAS is best consumed with a fatty meal, it will enhance absorption. I would opt for the longer at lower dose. Even 25mg anadrol per day for 8 weeks is effective.


 Thank you for the response, been meaning to purchase vitamin D for a while now so ill be sure to get that and to try the 5-htp aswell and see how it helps...thanks for the advice apreciate it :thumbup1:


----------



## JakobJuice

anectodal best amount of t3/t4 for bulking?

going full course aas/gh peps/gh/fast acting slin. (all moderate/"smart" doses. everything already tested. looking for the synergy of the compounds...)

by my experience I tend towards 50mcg t3/100mcg t4...

thank you.


----------



## MarkyMark

Does taking higher doses of clen burn more fat. For example a typical protocol is 2 weeks stating at 20mg Ed then ramping it up each day to 140mg.

I would prefer to do the same but go 20 to 40 to 80mg 4 days at each levels rather than hammering up really quick as I feel its "safer"

Does the aggressive dosing approach to clen burn more fat or simply give you more sides with minimal additional fat loss at the higher doses?


----------



## SlinMeister

JakobJuice said:


> anectodal best amount of t3/t4 for bulking?
> 
> going full course aas/gh peps/gh/fast acting slin. (all moderate/"smart" doses. everything already tested. looking for the synergy of the compounds...)
> 
> by my experience I tend towards 50mcg t3/100mcg t4...
> 
> thank you.


 Tbh using both hormones for tricking your thyroid is completely wrong.

What you want is a TSH near 1 and FT3 and max... If you supplement both hormones your are just messing with your gland.

Just choose, or use 100-150mcg T4 or 37,5-50mcg T3. Supplement one of these for 4weeks then do bloods. Go with pharma grade hormones!

Aim to have TSH as close as possible to 1 and high FT3 if you supplement it or high FT4 if you supplement T4.

You are not in puberty and aiming for puberty levels of thyroid is completely wrong. You are on AAS and this changes the game a bit.


----------



## SlinMeister

Simon90 said:


> Thank you for the response, been meaning to purchase vitamin D for a while now so ill be sure to get that and to try the 5-htp aswell and see how it helps...thanks for the advice apreciate it :thumbup1:


 5-htp is pretty much useless... If you eat... Almost every food has lots of it....

VitD instead is vital, 5000iu ed Will make you feel much better.

I started feeling better also with just 4g of Omega3 pills every day.


----------



## ghost.recon

JakobJuice said:


> anectodal best amount of t3/t4 for bulking?
> 
> going full course aas/gh peps/gh/fast acting slin. (all moderate/"smart" doses. everything already tested. looking for the synergy of the compounds...)
> 
> by my experience I tend towards 50mcg t3/100mcg t4...
> 
> thank you.


 50mcg T3 200mcg T4


----------



## Nara

@ghost.recon thoughts on using 50mg winstrol with 50mg anavar?


----------



## S123

ghost.recon said:


> 50mcg T3 200mcg T4


 100mcg on a bulk, do you know roughly how much 100mcg of t3 increases "your" metabolism? and what do you think of pre or post workout insulin while on a diet, about 10-15iu per day on training days? So what I'm doing looks like this

3.5iu gh ED

10-15iu humalog pre workout

700mg tren

150mg test

600mg mast

50mcg t3

200mcg t4 ( same as what you said for bulking, hence the question)


----------



## JakobJuice

S123 said:


> 100mcg on a bulk, do you know roughly how much 100mcg of t3 increases "your" metabolism? and what do you think of pre or post workout insulin while on a diet, about 10-15iu per day on training days? So what I'm doing looks like this
> 
> 3.5iu gh ED
> 
> 10-15iu humalog pre workout
> 
> 700mg tren
> 
> 150mg test
> 
> 600mg mast
> 
> 50mcg t3
> 
> 200mcg t4 ( same as what you said for bulking, hence the question)


 gh eod (7iu) and slin with 1x random meal + your pwo meal could result in a better, stressfree protocol..less problems with insulin densitivity, going hypno during workout etc.

just to give you an idea. but ghost is far more knowledgeable. if this protocol is based on your own experience with all these compounds in the mix please ignore my comment!
since there is no bread and butter cycle with slin everyone can use.


----------



## S123

JakobJuice said:


> gh eod (7iu) and slin with 1x random meal + your pwo meal could result in a better, stressfree protocol..less problems with insulin densitivity, going hypno during workout etc.
> 
> just to give you an idea. but ghost is far more knowledgeable. if this protocol is based on your own experience with all these compounds in the mix please ignore my comment!
> since there is no bread and butter cycle with slin everyone can use.


 Slin is a storage hormone and I'd only want all nutrients shuttling pre or post workout, insulin in the system stops fat burning or so I hear, that's why it's centered around the workout


----------



## SlinMeister

S123 said:


> Slin is a storage hormone and I'd only want all nutrients shuttling pre or post workout, insulin in the system stops fat burning or so I hear, that's why it's centered around the workout


 Cals IN vs cals OUT works also if you spam insulin.

Fat accumulation just depends by that.


----------



## Whoremoan1

over at trainedbyjp, a few of the gurus say never take tudca WHILE ON orals.... and say take them when OFF orals... as being on orals and tudca at same time can actually harm the liver ? is this true ?

also if your getting lethargy from an oral (Say epistane) would tudca also combat the lethargy ? ive heard some ppl say taking tudca with sdrol minimises the lethargy drastically..... ?


----------



## 2time

@ElChapo. About to start a long cruise ( till end of October), stopped jabbing for a week then starting cruise, but should I continue to take hcg and adex? I will do bloods after 6-8 weeks to see how things are going and what needs adjusting. If yes to hcg, what dose would you recommend. Thanks.


----------



## Bull Terrier

Whoremoan1 said:


> over at trainedbyjp, a few of the gurus say never take tudca WHILE ON orals.... and say take them when OFF orals... as being on orals and tudca at same time can actually harm the liver ? is this true ?
> 
> also if your getting lethargy from an oral (Say epistane) would tudca also combat the lethargy ? ive heard some ppl say taking tudca with sdrol minimises the lethargy drastically..... ?


 For what it's worth, I just did 8 weeks on 20mg per day of Superdrol (Sphinx) together with 1000mg per day of TUDCA. I had no lethargy, malaise or anything really.

And I'm still alive to tell the tale. Only side effects were increase in blood pressure and muscle cramping. But hard to say if it was all to attribute to Superdrol, because I took it with Test E and NPP.


----------



## Whoremoan1

Bull Terrier said:


> For what it's worth, I just did 8 weeks on 20mg per day of Superdrol (Sphinx) together with 1000mg per day of TUDCA. I had no lethargy, malaise or anything really.
> 
> And I'm still alive to tell the tale. Only side effects were increase in blood pressure and muscle cramping. But hard to say if it was all to attribute to Superdrol, because I took it with Test E and NPP.


 holy s**t 8 weeks! longest i usally get is 3 weeks on sdrol ... i have a theory it stops working after then anyway but f**k yeh i think its time i get tudca , been on adrol for months lol


----------



## JBlast

Last time I run tren E 300mg (with 300mg test and 50 winny) wrecked my appetite. Now I'm doing the same cycle again but 400mg tren E instead of 300mg and I have a lot of appetite.

Is it because of tren? Why sometimes it increases appetite and sometimes not?

Which oral wrecks appetite for a better cutting? I heard of anadrol but can superdrol do the same? I know I could use ephedrine but I feel better using orals, (monitoring my liver).

Thank you


----------



## Pancake'

Any benefit to taking caffeine post workout?


----------



## orangeandpears

Whoremoan1 said:


> holy s**t 8 weeks! longest i usally get is 3 weeks on sdrol ... i have a theory it stops working after then anyway but f**k yeh i think its time i get tudca , been on adrol for months lol


 elchapo says orals shine at 6-8 weeks mark and no one runs them long enough. as long as you use liver support it's fine especially if you use injectable orals.

i'm just about to finish 40mg injectable sdrol ed and 50mg winny ed felt completely normal for entire cycle


----------



## need2bodybuild

orangeandpears said:


> elchapo says orals shine at 6-8 weeks mark and no one runs them long enough. as long as you use liver support it's fine especially if you use injectable orals.
> 
> i'm just about to finish 40mg injectable sdrol ed and 50mg winny ed felt completely normal for entire cycle


 Every time I've run orals I run them for duration of cycle(8-10 weeks) with no liver support and it's great (bare in mind though I wouldn't do that if I liked a drink...I don't touch a drop)


----------



## pma111

Pancake' said:


> Any benefit to taking caffeine post workout?


 Only to stay awake if your other half wants to watch love island.


----------



## orangeandpears

need2bodybuild said:


> Every time I've run orals I run them for duration of cycle(8-10 weeks) with no liver support and it's great (bare in mind though I wouldn't do that if I liked a drink...I don't touch a drop)


 Yeah people are way too scared of orals, liver damage is so over hyped. 8 weeks of injectable sdrol was the greatest addition to my cycle ever, prob will have a 2 month break now tho before blasting some adrol :thumb


----------



## CHRIS GW

I haven't read the entire thread but I'm guessing el chapo no longer posts?

My question is maybe a fairly complex one that requires a very definitive answer...so ghost.recon if you can help that would be great...

I'm in remission from stage 4 melanoma skin cancer. I'm on a targeted cytotoxic combination therapy that has miraculously shrank any evidence of cancer in my body. Although that doesn't mean there isn't any in me laying dormant etc, it means if it's still there it's so minute that there isn't technology available that can detect it.

I've used certain PEDs, just AAS and Fat Burner type products throughout my illness and it has had no effect on my recovery - if anything I think it's helped. I know that AAS don't encourage tumour cell proliferation, but for this very reason I would never touch GH, Slin, IGF etc as they definitely can.

Anyway, I always research whatever I can before I decide to use a specific product or compound and if there's any doubt in my mind about whether or not it's a good idea, based on my health situation, I will not take the risk.

My question is about metformin and melanotan 2. I've read some scientific articles online that allude to contraindications between these two and melanoma cell growth. However, sometimes these articles can be very complex and I'm really not knowledgeable enough to interpret the findings and reports relating to the question I am asking about if it's safe to use either of these products.

If anyone can shed any light, you'd be a great help...but if not then it'll just be another questionable risk that I'll leave alone...


----------



## JBlast

I read @ElChapo said a very good dose for cruising is 300mg of testosterone enanthate. But I also read He uses 200mg of test prop for cruising, pinning Monday
Wednesday Friday

He prefers prop to enanthate because some people say (him included) that testosterone enanthate causes some bloat in face/body for a good part of aas users.

Anyway the question is, what's the best dosage for test prop to run on cruise? For test enanthate you said is 300mg, but I would switch to prop to see if I notice less bloat.

Thank you so much.


----------



## 64rl0

Hi @ElChapo

I'm planning my next test + deca cycle.

it will be something like test 400mg/week and deca between 350 and 400mg/week (haven't decided it yet)

I will take aromasin E3D as per my 1st cycle as it worked perfectly for me.

will I need to get some cabergoline for the deca?? If so what dosage and frequency would you say?


----------



## SlinMeister

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I'm planning my next test + deca cycle.
> 
> it will be something like test 400mg/week and deca between 350 and 400mg/week (haven't decided it yet)
> 
> I will take aromasin E3D as per my 1st cycle as it worked perfectly for me.
> 
> will I need to get some cabergoline for the deca?? If so what dosage and frequency would you say?


 You will need a Proviron/Masteron to avoid lethargy and keep working out.

600 TestE 600 Deca 600 MasteronE.

One of the best cycles i did was:

12w 1g TestE 1g Deca 1g MasteronE

12w 1g TestE 1g EQ 1g MasteronE

go into cut


----------



## 64rl0

@SlinMeister I like your cycle but as it is my only 2nd one I think 1.8g per week is a bit too much.

would you say I need cabergoline even on 350/400mg deca per week?


----------



## SlinMeister

64rl0 said:


> @SlinMeister I like your cycle but as it is my only 2nd one I think 1.8g per week is a bit too much.
> 
> would you say I need cabergoline even on 350/400mg deca per week?


 Remember the esters.... Deca is 61% active AAS.....

Tbh if you want gains you need to push doses up to a point.

3g of mild drugs like test deca eq dhb primo Masteron Proviron is good to go.

But start adding Tren Trestolone and this will be an hell.

750 Sust/TestE/TestC usually it's 3x puberty dose so nothing insane.... 1g Test for me is absolute max (5x puberty) you need to add HGH.

Remember also that such a mild AAS as Masteron at this dose will start doing more than just hardening you  More strength, well-being, ofc muscle building!

If I could go back in time I would build my body on just, test mast eq/dhb and lots of food for a couple of years instead of pushing low test Deca/Tren too early.

Once thick enough with decent dose of test and tren you can improvenand sculpt the statue, but before you need the basics... And also after.

Let's be honest on Tren you look good but you feel like s**t after a while, test deca eq masteron you won't look that pretty (even if lean enough it's not that bad) but you will feel awesome.


----------



## stewedw

@SlinMeister

I'm on 750test e and 400mg npp e/w having ran npp just twice for short runs before end enjoying it.

If I'm reading correctly you're suggesting 1g test and 1g masteron for building?


----------



## SlinMeister

stewedw said:


> @SlinMeister
> 
> I'm on 750test e and 400mg npp e/w having ran npp just twice for short runs before end enjoying it.
> 
> If I'm reading correctly you're suggesting 1g test and 1g masteron for building?


 Yep sir but you can't compare, Test NPP vs Test Mast.

NPP is 19-nor drug and like all 19-nor stimulates androgen receptors proliferation, but on other hand has lots of side if you don't use a DHT or enough Test (like adding a DHT drug)


----------



## ghost.recon

MarkyMark said:


> Does taking higher doses of clen burn more fat. For example a typical protocol is 2 weeks stating at 20mg Ed then ramping it up each day to 140mg.
> 
> I would prefer to do the same but go 20 to 40 to 80mg 4 days at each levels rather than hammering up really quick as I feel its "safer"
> 
> Does the aggressive dosing approach to clen burn more fat or simply give you more sides with minimal additional fat loss at the higher doses?


 Yeah but only to an extent. Ideally you want a therapeutic dose that enhances fat loss with minimal side effects. Nutrition and training very important.

You mean mcg not mg. 1mg = 1000mcg.

Start at 20mcg per day, as long as your nutrition and correct you shouldn't need anymore for consistent fat loss.

The more fat you have the more beta 2 adrenergic receptors present for clen binding. Doesn't mean more is better because clen is not adipose tissue specific, the heart contains b2 receptors.


----------



## ghost.recon

Nara said:


> @ghost.recon thoughts on using 50mg winstrol with 50mg anavar?


 Good


----------



## ghost.recon

Whoremoan1 said:


> over at trainedbyjp, a few of the gurus say never take tudca WHILE ON orals.... and say take them when OFF orals... as being on orals and tudca at same time can actually harm the liver ? is this true ?
> 
> also if your getting lethargy from an oral (Say epistane) would tudca also combat the lethargy ? ive heard some ppl say taking tudca with sdrol minimises the lethargy drastically..... ?


 No it is not true.

Yes it can reduce lethargy but not prevent it.


----------



## ghost.recon

JBlast said:


> Last time I run tren E 300mg (with 300mg test and 50 winny) wrecked my appetite. Now I'm doing the same cycle again but 400mg tren E instead of 300mg and I have a lot of appetite.
> 
> Is it because of tren? Why sometimes it increases appetite and sometimes not?
> 
> Which oral wrecks appetite for a better cutting? I heard of anadrol but can superdrol do the same? I know I could use ephedrine but I feel better using orals, (monitoring my liver).
> 
> Thank you


 Yeah tren can affect the GI tract especially with gastric secretion.

It could be due to several factors, health markers, diet, training, stress.

I would not advise suppressing appetite by inducing oral AAS liver toxicity. Just eat less. The liver regulates many biological processes, it makes no sense to stress your liver.


----------



## vEprik

Cruising on 150mgs of test has my e2 levels out of range, what do you think would be less harmful to overall health/hdl etc

1) combating e2 with 100mg mast

2) aromasin or adex to control to e2

3) dont do anything of the above and just dont care about e2 being out of range


----------



## ghost.recon

vEprik said:


> Cruising on 150mgs of test has my e2 levels out of range, what do you think would be less harmful to overall health/hdl etc
> 
> 1) combating e2 with 100mg mast
> 
> 2) aromasin or adex to control to e2
> 
> 3) dont do anything of the above and just dont care about e2 being out of range


 2) with aromasin would be least harmful, aromasin actually has beneficial effects on HDL. It is my choice of AI.


----------



## ghost.recon

Pancake' said:


> Any benefit to taking caffeine post workout?


 Not really unless you are dieting and need energy to get through the day


----------



## Pancake'

Can someone tend to sweat more on high carb diets and if so why?


----------



## sponge2015

ghost.recon said:


> they are two completely different drugs, theres no equivalent dose because they both do not do the same thing.


 Bit confused as after you gave me this reply you seemed of told @arbffgadm100to run 37.5iu HMG x 2 a week in place of HCG?

Did you miss read HMG as HGH in my question as I'm sure HMG and HCG are atleast similar drugs.


----------



## MarkyMark

sponge2015 said:


> Bit confused as after you gave me this reply you seemed of told @arbffgadm100to run 37.5iu HMG x 2 a week in place of HCG?
> 
> Did you miss read HMG as HGH in my question as I'm sure HMG and HCG are atleast similar drugs.


 HCG when injected into the body mimics Luteinizing hormone which stimulates the Leydig cells in testes to produce testosterone.

Hmg contains actual LH and Fsh in a 50 50 ratio. As I understand, as HMG contains actual LH you need a lot less to get the same effect as from HCG which mimics LH.

In addition to this HMG contains Fsh which is the main hormone required to maintain fertility/spermatogenesis on cycle.


----------



## sponge2015

MarkyMark said:


> HCG when injected into the body mimics Luteinizing hormone which stimulates the Leydig cells in testes to produce testosterone.
> 
> Hmg contains actual LH and Fsh in a 50 50 ratio. As I understand, as HMG contains actual LH you need a lot less to get the same effect as from HCG which mimics LH.
> 
> In addition to this HMG contains Fsh which is the main hormone required to maintain fertility/spermatogenesis on cycle.


 Yes I know mate, but this was @ghost.recon reply which confused me.

"they are two completely different drugs, theres no equivalent dose because they both do not do the same thing."


----------



## Pancake'

How can you maximise increasing androgen receptor sensitivity?


----------



## Endomorph84

What is the optimal dose of Creatine Monohydrate for maximum effect and minimal water retention?


----------



## Kian1980

.


----------



## Super -ingh

For us guys who are normal lifters and want to have a little edge, is the whole theory of test only cycles being the safest and easiest cycle (in terms of recovery) true?
what would you recommend as a cutting and bulking dosages (assuming diet is on point) or would you keep it the same?

lastly would incorporating 4 weeks of winny or dbol depending if its a cut or bulk adversely affect you in any way (lipids..shutdown etc...)?

back in training after a year out and I have been considering for years but just want to do test only going forward if I decide to juice

@ghost.recon @ElChapo

apologies if its been covered before


----------



## stewedw

Bump. Is the thread stopped again for a while? Cheers.


----------



## Simon90

Should the use of orals be discontinued if your pee is darker( it does go lights when drinking much more) and feeling tired fatigued...I always thought these are sides from using them but couod also be sign of liver/kidney damage?


----------



## orangeandpears

@ghost.recon been reading about giving your body time to adapt to its new body composition/weight after drastic changes to it, is there any truth to this and does b/c change this?

for example i plan to cut straight after my 4 month blast at a cruise dose however should i eat at maintenance for awhile so my body adjusts to the new muscle or do the AAS negate this?


----------



## Simon90

orangeandpears said:


> @ghost.recon been reading about giving your body time to adapt to its new body composition/weight after drastic changes to it, is there any truth to this and does b/c change this?
> 
> for example i plan to cut straight after my 4 month blast at a cruise dose however should i eat at maintenance for awhile so my body adjusts to the new muscle or do the AAS negate this?


 I dont have the knowledge this guy has mate but im telling you from personal experience to NOT do this...id maintain weight for few weeks atleast first...I could be wrong but when I did this I lost alot of progress and I believe its down to the body wasnt adapted to the extra mass put on in just few months time then again I guess everyone is different


----------



## Testdecadbol

SlinMeister said:


> Remember the esters.... Deca is 61% active AAS.....
> 
> Tbh if you want gains you need to push doses up to a point.
> 
> 3g of mild drugs like test deca eq dhb primo Masteron Proviron is good to go.
> 
> But start adding Tren Trestolone and this will be an hell.
> 
> 750 Sust/TestE/TestC usually it's 3x puberty dose so nothing insane.... 1g Test for me is absolute max (5x puberty) you need to add HGH.
> 
> Remember also that such a mild AAS as Masteron at this dose will start doing more than just hardening you  More strength, well-being, ofc muscle building!
> 
> If I could go back in time I would build my body on just, test mast eq/dhb and lots of food for a couple of years instead of pushing low test Deca/Tren too early.
> 
> Once thick enough with decent dose of test and tren you can improvenand sculpt the statue, but before you need the basics... And also after.
> 
> Let's be honest on Tren you look good but you feel like s**t after a while, test deca eq masteron you won't look that pretty (even if lean enough it's not that bad) but you will feel awesome.


 Think 3g of "mild drugs" is g2g.

No one here needs fuking 3g, let alone someone on their first few cycles.

This nonesense never ends.


----------



## SlinMeister

Testdecadbol said:


> Think 3g of "mild drugs" is g2g.
> 
> No one here needs fuking 3g, let alone someone on their first few cycles.
> 
> This nonesense never ends.


 Then spin your wheels....and let them do the same, more broscience please!

This 2g 3g it's utter bullshit it all depends on the drugs you use.

Do you think that Bumpsted is on 3g LOL..


----------



## Testdecadbol

SlinMeister said:


> Then spin your wheels....and let them do the same, more broscience please!
> 
> This 2g 3g it's utter bullshit it all depends on the drugs you use.
> 
> Do you think that Bumpsted is on 3g LOL..


 Idgaf what bumstead is on and niether should you.

Go the fuk back to gh15 and talk about stupid shite there.


----------



## SlinMeister

Testdecadbol said:


> Idgaf what bumstead is on and niether should you.
> 
> Go the fuk back to gh15 and talk about stupid shite there.


 Told by someone that doesn't even bodybuild since it's just an endurance athlete... It's an honor for me, go back on your bike.


----------



## heraclitor

hi all.

i was on B/C the last 4 years, and a didnt use HCG normaly

now im thinking about taking childs but my LH,fsh and test are at 0. then i think my sperm is ZERO

im off for the last 4 monts

i did pTC with 5 shots of HMG and 600ui of HCG

i used in that protocol exemestane, tamoxifene and clomid too.

im thinking abuot to repeat PCT but i dont know whats the better mode of doing it for up my hormones

thanks


----------



## Endomorph84

heraclitor said:


> hi all.
> 
> i was on B/C the last 4 years, and a didnt use HCG normaly
> 
> now im thinking about taking childs but my LH,fsh and test are at 0. then i think my sperm is ZERO
> 
> im off for the last 4 monts
> 
> i did pTC with 5 shots of HMG and 600ui of HCG
> 
> i used in that protocol exemestane, tamoxifene and clomid too.
> 
> im thinking abuot to repeat PCT but i dont know whats the better mode of doing it for up my hormones
> 
> thanks


 Hi mate, post that question here https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/forum/21-steroid-and-testosterone-information/

This threads been dead for a lifetime (feels that way).


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I have seen recommendations of 40 grams of protein coupled with 30 grams of fast acting carbs within the hour post-workout, do these numbers work for you?


 I am a big fan of high glycemic carbs with dairy post - workout. Dairy increases insulin secretion more than other foods due to bioactive compounds found in milk, sugary carbs will further increase insulin (think cookie crisp, frosted flakes, etc). Dairy also increases IGF-1. Insulin and igf-1 (GH) are two of the most anabolic substances in the human body.

Some studies show that protein synthesis is maximized at 40 grams of protein per sitting, but +20 grams will do the job for you. 1 scoop of whey and a big bowl or two of your favorite breakfast cereal with skim milk on a cut or whole milk if you have trouble getting calories in.

After a workout, your muscles are primed for absorbing carbs and protein. The muscle cells are extra sensitive to insulin during the post-workout window (30 mins- 1 hour).


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Is Nicotine gum pre workout effective?


 Nicotine does have a positive psychoactive effect, however, it's more in the anxiolytic category. It helps calms the nerves, which is why people like to smoke when they are stressed.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Oral SD gives horrible lethargy , would it be the same with injectable?


 Yes, i find superdrol extremely effective, and one of my top rated AAS. Lethargy and appetite loss/nausea are very common symptoms. TUDCA might help, but drinking extra coffee and pre-workout will be your best friend.

Superdrol will dry you out, pump you up and increase strength. It is an awesome androgen. It can mess you up though. Injectable will let you get away with a higher, more bio available dose. I am an advocate of injectable orals like sdrol and winstrol.

You will get better and faster results with injectables, however, the convenience of orals is a big plus for AAS users who are already pinning a lot of oil or don't like pinning a lot.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> What about caffein shampoo for hair growth? not sure it's useful but some people claim it is


 It can be healthy for your hair. It's got a nice anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory effect on hair, but nizoral is fairly powerful and as effective as rogaine/minoxidil.

Nizoral has thickened my own temple hair to the point that it seems to have reversed some slight thinning. I use it religiously year round and can notice a difference in hair thickness when i stop using it.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Tbol vs var for a cutting cycle ?


 I am a winstrol fan, but some have bad sides with it. You can't go wrong with tbol or var, once you get cut and sub <12% you will look very good as long as you have a respectable amount of muscle built up.


----------



## ElChapo

impreza_01 said:


> Hi can I take blood test for estrogen within 4 days of using Asin? I have a baseline estrogen now without AI. I will start taking AI now to find my sweet spot then get bloods in 4 days within using asin. Is it ok or I should wait a week for Asin to peak in blood?


 Aromasin does work right away, but the levels build up over time. You should wait a two weeks or so ideally. Start low with aromasin, you can even get away with E3D dosing with it as it permanently clears aromasin from the blood stream despite the half life.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Any specific recommendation on which beta blocker for high blood pressure... and a sensible start dose?


 Metoprolol is good, just go as low as possible. The higher the dose, the more sides you are going to run into. If you can get away with 50 mg daily, that would be ideal.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your thoughts on tanning beds ? They've been banned in Australia, I'm not to sure why ? But there's a few underground ones , what's your thoughts on using one a couple times a week ?


 They are good alternatives for people who can't make it to the beach or live in suboptimal weather. Just go as little as possible, to maintain your tan.

Keep as light a tan as you feel you look best with. The darker the tan, the more risk of premature wrinkle formation and skin cell mutation (cancer).

A little tanning bed light/sun light is good for the skin. Kills off bacteria, reduces excess oil and even has positive benefits for your mood and brain. Just keep a lighter, mild tan for best results.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> Is that due to tanning beds ? Or the sun lol
> 
> Would be used in conjunction with mt2


 Excessive tanning can increase the risk of genetic mutations to skin cells which increase the risk of cancer. Most people will never have a problem with this, but some people have a strong genetic disposition. I believe in the freedom to choose, if anything, Aussie gov should provide educational materials on sensible tanning routines but it' easier to just ban it all together, something i am strongly against.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Hi mate 3ml.of this blend below would be decent, wouldn't you think? Adding in 3iu gh daily and maybe winny 100mg per day?
> 
> 1-Test cyp (DHB) 100mg, Bold Cyp 100mg, EQ 100mg.
> 
> Thanks?


 Hell yeah, that's a great stack. You will look nasty at <12% body fat.


----------



## ElChapo

bert.edge said:


> Hi,
> 
> seem to be suffering with lots of red lumps (suppose they're spots) in my hair, generally at the back and side of my head. Odd spot on my face now and again.
> 
> Anything you'd rate to help? Thanks


 See a dermatologist, this is beyond my scope of practice & experience.

It could be acne or an auto immune reaction. You could also be having allergic reaction to a skin care product, food, clothing detergent, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Today or tomorrow im starting IGF lr3 ill start with 30mcg..whats that about taking it pwo, or pre wo, or some say first thing in the morning..other say no close to a workout because of MGF, etc etc..does it really matter?


 It won't matter


----------



## ElChapo

sponge2015 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Ive ran 1000iu HCG a week since day 1 of using gear, and its made recovery a breeze, even when i've been on 2+ years sometimes. Bloodwork months after PCT to confirm.
> 
> I can get pharma HMG dirt cheap as i buy in bulk, like 50 boxes at a time,
> 
> What dose of HMG would be similar to HCG at 1000iu a week?
> 
> As if its something like 150iu surely i'd be better of using HMG as it mimics both LH and FSH and not just LH like hcg?
> 
> correct me if im wrong, been a while since i looked into this as always just use HCG
> 
> chees


 50 iu m,w,f should do the trick. If you really wanna know, do a sperm analysis with HMG and HCG respectively. HMG is ideal as HCG doesn't have the FSH.

HCG is better at mimicking LH but not FSH.


----------



## ElChapo

impreza_01 said:


> Im getting acne since starting Asin at 12.5 e3d on 300mg test. Could it be just hormone fluctuations? Im still waiting a month on using Asin to get bloods again. Weird s**t is im getting dry skin on face too.


 Could be increase in DHT from extra testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Hi Ghost,
> 
> 1) Best nutrition % i.e. 50cho/30pro/20fat and how many fat minimum you could use
> 
> 2) Best AAS cutting cycle
> 
> 3) Best routine and how to periodize
> 
> Thanks


 I'll give my 2 cents.

1. High carb/moderate protein/low fat for bulking and cut.

During a cut, a high carb diet will keep muscle glycogen stores topped off. This means three things happen 1. Fuller muscles 2. More strength/endurance 3. Better mood. High carb intake keeps the satiety hormone leptin as high as possible. As we lose body fat, we lost leptin (body fat secretes leptin). This is why getting and staying lean is difficult for many people, because their body tells them they are starving. We can trick the body by eating lots of carbs and artificially increasing leptin, which will keep metabolism, satiety and mood as high as possible on a caloric deficit. You want the minimum protein needed to spare muscle mass ( 1 gram per lbs of lean body mass not total weight for cutting or .8 grams for bulking)

2. Test prop/winstrol

This will dry you out and give you a ton of strength and energy which you need on a cut to maintain muscle and training intensity. You can add trenbolone, but 300-600 mg test prop + 150-300 mg winstrol will maintain muscle mass for 90% of bodybuilders on a cut. The best part is this is a cheap, effective and versatile cycle that can be used for both bodybuilding and powerlifting or sports.

3. The best routine will be stick to the fundamentals.

A. Caloric surplus/deficit.

You wanna grow? Eat more than you burn. Wanna lean down? Eat less than you consume. It's that simple

B. Progressive overload

You must always strive to achieve higher reps and higher poundage on each and every exercise and movement. If you are curling 40 lbs today, you want to eventually curly 60 lbs *with perfect form* in the future. 60 lbs curling version of yourself WILL have bigger biceps. If you curl 40 lbs for 8 reps, once you hit 40 lbs for 15 reps, your muscles will have gotten bigger on the way there. You must intelligently push your limits every day in the gym.

Any routine that follows those two rules will give you great results. A mix of low rep compounds and high rep isolation exercises is ideal. This is what built physiques like Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Arnold/Franco. Get strong as hell and pump up the smaller muscles with dumbbells/machines. Anyone who can bench 3 plates for reps, squat 4 plates for reps, etc will not have small chest and legs, period.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ghost.recon hi mate couple questions.....
> 
> 1) Is it ok to stack DHB with EQ ive read its not but no actual evidence as to why ?
> 
> 2) My wife has over active thyroid she is constantly lethargic and drained, what if anything can she take to help ?
> 
> 3) I used ralox to reduce gyno but it got worse so im now on 20mg nolva and it seems to be shrinking am I best keeping to nolva now ?
> 
> or can I go back to ralox that is said to be better to reduce/rid gyno ?


 Your gyno is probably gone by now. haha

I have seen ralox worsen the gyno at first, but eventually it does the job. Give it 6-8 weeks and most people's gyno is gone. Nolva is also quite effective but has more sides like mood/libido.

Your wife can take meds that slow down thyroid function or she can have it removed. Consult with a GOOD endocrinologist. Find a good one and do lots of research.


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> Classic cycle of Test, Deca, D'bol, is there a "best" dosing strategy? Equal doses of Test and Deca? Twice as much Deca as Test? Or person dependant and have to find a sweet spot?
> 
> Relevant info - for older lifter/user.


 I like a 50/50 approach, but it depends on how you respond to test and deca. I will always recommend the shorter esters. I bloat on enanthate even at low doses.

Test p/NPP kick in faster and "feel" stronger, as brosciencey as that sound.

DECA and Dbol are very prone to causing gyno growth if your are sensitive. DECA has a progestin effect and dbol aromatizes into methyl-estradiol a more potent form of estradiol.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Longest you'd advocate tren run?
> 
> Running 125mg test 300mg tren e and 50mcg t3 ed.
> 
> No sides except sweating, bloods aren't great but are still bottom range acceptable.
> 
> 30 mins cardio ed and a relatively healthy diet.
> 
> Id like to go for 8 months total provided progress doesn't stall.
> 
> Thanks fella.
> 
> @ghost.recon


 This will depend on your individual goals and risk tolerance. The longer your run it, the higher the risk of heart issues.

If you have a family history of heart issues and don't take care of yourself, your risk will be much greater. AAS need to be respected, but many times the risk are overstated.

Many people run longer cycles with minimal negative consequences, but 12 weeks is a good length of time for a mini-bulk/cut and money can be a limiting factor as well for people wanting to run cycles. Higher doses and orals should be limited to shorter periods ideally from a health perspective. Always keep some form of cardiovascular exercise in your lifestyle. This will greatly mitigate some of the negative effects AAS have on the body.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> NPP, DHB or EQ for blast with low test (150-200). Goal is progress and mass with minimal fat gain. Thinking 14-20 weeks.
> 
> Add masteron or not?
> 
> Doses?


 Masteron is mostly cosmetic. Some people describe it as a polisher. I would agree with this observation.

I'd run winstrol 150-300 mg with TUDCA for 8-12 weeks. You will get the same polishing effect, but much dryer and pumped looking than masteron with a sharp increase in strength.

Doses will scale off your experience level and goals. 300-600 NPP/DHB/EQ will fit most people's goals. Some will push it to 1 gram.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> How much cialis for lower blood pressure??


 Cialis is not ideal for lowering blood pressure. The dose needed will cause significant side effects in a lot of people. Congestion, flu feeling and headaches.

You are better off with a low dose of metoprolol like 25-100 mg daily.


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> I previously ran Test at 400 and Deca at 300 with Adex, but no Caber, and did not have ED problems.
> 
> I bought caber for a tren run, would you advise running it with my next Test/Deca cycle at same/similar doses as before?
> 
> Thanks.


 Don't run caber if you get no side effects. The less you put in your body to achieve your goals, the better.


----------



## ElChapo

Testdecadbol said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> U have see lots of client bloods?
> 
> How have you helped ppl with hdl and ldl?
> 
> Diet and cardio are on fleek. Any specific supps that worked well?
> 
> Is eq the safest roid for lipids?


 Don't sweat the impair lipids on cycle. As long as you don't run harsh AAS year round for a long time, you will be okay.

Now, if you have a genetic predisposition for heart disease and run strong and high doses of AAS year round for many years, you are setting yourself up for issues.

As long as you limit your time on with impaired lipids and maintain an active lifestyle with low body fat, you will be better off than 90% of the population even while running AAS (responsibly of course).


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> What's your views on the generic 5-a day. I.e how much fruit and veg in your opinion is sufficient for optimal health, micros etc etc. Any prefered sources?
> 
> Thanks bud.


 Fruits and vegetables are honestly overrated.

Daily cardio is where the real magic happens. Your physical and mental health will improve by leaps and bounds. Cardio can be as effective as pharmaceutical medications when it comes to depression, lipids, BP, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> Could you elaborate on how one would use HMG in the absence of HCG, and whether you think this is better than the opposite case i.e., HCG and no HMG?
> 
> Basically, dose for HMG only, and dose for HCG only, and which is superior for retaining testicular volume and function.
> 
> Cheers


 HMG is more effective due to presence of true LH/FSH. It is much more expensive and harder to find.

HCG will do the trick for most people. It works best if you start it from day 1 of your first cycle and run it through every cycle/cruise.

1,000 IU per week is the most effective, regular dose for basic fertility protection. Just make sure you have a good source.


----------



## ElChapo

ishadow said:


> Is it possible to temporarily drop water weight for a week while on a Deca cycle?
> 
> Ive got no problem with the added water retention from Deca and Mk677 but I've got an unplanned holiday coming in the middle of my Deca cycle.


 Drop the deca and replace with winstrol. It will suck the water out.

Next time run NPP instead. Less water retention, stronger per mg, and faster kick in time. More frequent pins are worth and you can get away with E3D and get optimal results.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your opinion on acrylamide being carcinogenic in food? https://www.fhi.no/en/projects/fp6---heatox---heat-generated-food-/


 Not a big deal, just don't eat charred food on a regular basis. Our ancestors have been eating this stuff for centuries. A little crisp toast and steak sear will not do you any harm.

If a piece of food is completely charred discard it, otherwise, don't fret.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> TRT/Cruise using Test E
> 
> Would it be optimal to run
> 
> 150mg every 7 days?
> 
> or
> 
> 75mg every 3.5 days?
> 
> Any real world difference between the two in blood level/stable test levels?
> 
> Many thanks


 I recommend test prop instead @ x 2 or x 3 per week as HRT, from personal experience. I bloat on enanthate, and don't get the same energy, cognitive, mood and strength boost as propionate. The prop keeps me dry and full even at higher doses.

Some people metabolize testosterone quickly and do better on E3D dosing even with the long esters.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Could you give your opinion on what AAS would suit an older guy like myself ( 48 ) im about to start 300mg test e 300mg DHB 50mg winny.


 To add to the question on older lifters;

Ideally, an older lifter will have reached their ideal physique through years of training and maintain that on HRT or low dose test (300 mg max).

The wear and tear of lots of lifting and heavier weights and harsher compounds will start to take their toll and risk of stroke/heart attack are very real and much higher for older gentleman.

HRT/moderate dose of test can maintain a VERY aesthetic physique. Anyone with any respectable amount of muscle at a TRUE 12% body fat or below is going to look amazing and better than 95% of the population.

If you can cruise on 150-300 mg testosterone while keeping lipids, BP and HCT in range. Stay at or under 12% body fat and do daily cardiovascular exercise, you will feel and look amazing well into your golden years.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> 1. Following on from your preveously answered question regarding HMG in replacement of HCG dosing you said 75iu per week. Can you confirm if you mean shot once a week or split? I could happily budget HMG @ 75iu each week instead of HCG if this would be the case but seems to little? (I blast and Cruse)
> 
> 2. Again following another answer regarding keeping your clients on TREN for extended periods of time permitting blood markers. What TREN and test doses would this be that your clients would be running (typically).
> 
> 3. I have been running TREN A for 3 weeks now with a relitivly clean diet full of fibre and as little sugar as possible. In addition to this running quite a few cholesterol boosting sups. I have been using Niacin since the start at 2 grams taken before bed to sleep through flush. I had a blood test done a few days back and my cholesterol was amazing (1.1 HDL, 1.7 LDL, 0.5 trig). I think it's the niacin that is mainly assisting with this.
> 
> Question regarding Niacin - does taking one large dose become a state of diminishing return if taken to high at once as I can tollorate 3 to 4 grams in one shot. I cannot take it during the day as looking like a beetroot for a hr after don't look cool in the office! In other words is 2 grams 2 times a day going to have better result on lipids than 4 grams all in one go in the evening before bed?
> 
> 4. Does anavar really have any effect on collegen synthesis and help aid repairing joints?


 HCG 1,000 iu will do the job, cost you less and be much easier to source. 75 mcg HMG would split x 2 or x 3 per week. If you are trying to restore fertility, 150 mcg HMG m,w,f w/ clomiphene @ 100 mg daily.

I would not count on anavar having a magical effect, but AAS can help rehab/strengthen the muscles that support injured joints and connective tissues for those undergoing PT and rehab therapy.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome. Going to switch to 2x37.5iu of HMG weekly and ditch the HCG altogether.
> 
> Next q:
> 
> Deciding whether to add 100mg masteron to a cruise dose of test, or perhaps even primo at 100mg. Worth bothering with?


 Yes, this will polish your physique with minimal health repercussions. Ideally you want to be at 12% or less, otherwise, you will not see much difference.

I always recommend maintaining a body fat percentage of 12% or less year round unless bulking and daily cardio unless bulking for optimal health AND aesthetics.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> 1. Just studies I read about people who had little to no sperm count they had to use 75 to 150iu 3 times a week along with hcg. However I guess my goal and there's are different and thus should not require as high dose.
> 
> I assume I can mix 75iu vial shoot half on one day and then keep it on the fridge till 3 days later? Or is HMG delicate to store in this way and possibly reduce potency?
> 
> 2. Currently running the TREN A at 400mg per week and test at 150mg per week so i don't need to run AI and thus far no gyno issues what so ever.
> 
> Does running low test reduce the muscle building effect of the TREN ran at higher dose? Should I up the test? FIY I am bulking.
> 
> 3. I even flush with a 500mg with food! So does splitting it throughout the day have a more positive effect on lipids?
> 
> 4. Thanks


 50/50 ratio of test / tren for best results but higher risk of sides like gyno, mood impairment and rubber cock.


----------



## ElChapo

TinTin10 said:


> Shits just gone right to pot! Wondering if you can help:
> 
> 1ST ISSUE
> 
> Im cutting short my 1st tren run because of mental sides.
> 
> Been doing 250 TTM pw with 12.5mg exe and 0.5 caber twice pw, had no sides until around week 9.
> 
> For the past 2 weeks ive been having worsening sides like anxiety issues, extreme jealously etc etc so I think there is no other choice than packing it in.
> 
> Wondering if youve got any advice on this? i.e cycle changes for more manageable sides/confirming Tren isnt for you steer clear.
> 
> 2ND ISSUE
> 
> Got a holiday coming up 8th July, now im dropping Tren, id like to add some Winstrol in to maintain strength on the cut and for aesthetics for holiday.
> 
> Always run TUDCA with Winny but wondering how long after my last Winny tab would it be safe for me to drink alcohol? And is that a viable option?
> 
> 3RD ISSUE
> 
> Just took the 1st 250mg tab of DNP as part of cut plan for holiday. Would have ran for 15 days then left a week to come off and fill back up.
> 
> This is my 3rd DNP run. 1st no issues. 2nd started developing slightly red Hives on arsecheeks and backs of legs.
> 
> This time ive done the 1st pill at 7am and by 12noon ive got about 8 bright red hives on arsecheeks and backs of legs.
> 
> Took a benadryl and have citrazine on hand.
> 
> Appreciate any feedback here bc its was all going great and within a couple of weeks everythings gone to s**t!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Would you dump the DNP now? or increase Anti Hist to see if sides subside?


 Replace tren with winstrol at the same dose for all future cycles. I recommend injectable. You will get just as good aesthetics, strength gain, etc in my experience. Winstrol will dry you out more and give you more vascularity than tren without the mood issues.

DNP ; anti-histamine like Benadryl and claritin will help. You might need a stiff dose though. It's a common side effect and typically harmless.


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> What's your thoughts of a 300mg pow test e cycle as your first?for say 20 weeks.
> 
> first 10 weeks cutting up while the test helping keep hold of muscle mass then 10 weeks of a slow bulk? Rather than the standard 500mg cycle?
> 
> cheers


 You might as well bulk first then cut. 300-600 mg will do the job. Two schools of thought:

1. Lower dose/lower sides/cheaper

2. Might as well go 500-600 mg since you are shutting yourself down anyways

1 or 2 will depend on your goals. How big do you wanna get? This is the biggest question. 500-600 mg test will give you more strength, more muscle etc. If you just wanna look natty with good muscle development, 300 mg will get you there.

The tricky part is keeping your gains after the cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> mast p or mast e ? any major difference apart from half life? will they both produce same results?


 They both work, i'm partial to fast esters. They feel stronger to me and I'm a slow responder and prone to water retention from test enanthate. Doesn't matter as much if you're bulking or extremely lean.


----------



## ElChapo

Bull Terrier said:


> About a month ago whilst doing bench press I felt a sharp spasm in my right pec and the bar fell.
> 
> At first I feared the absolute worst, i.e. that I had torn the pec. However I still had full range of movement, albeit with discomfort. Furthermore there was no pain, redness or swelling. Since then I tried a few times to do bench press, but when I felt discomfort I simply called it a day. Last week I managed to do a few sets with a half decent weight and had no pain. Thus this morning I went at it, but after plenty of warm-up sets and with understanding that I would abort at first sign of trouble. I got up to a bit below 100kg, easily within my limits but then on second set with this weight I felt the same damn spasm and again the bar came down.
> 
> Right now I'm not any worse off than I was a month ago, but I don't know what the problem is. I don't think I've torn anything, but I don't know what I need to do to get better again. I really don't like being out of action on bench press and I'm terrified that I may be out of action for a long time to come.
> 
> The pain is localized pretty much in the part of pec where it attaches to front deltoid. The pain is not extreme and I can still move everything. No visible signs of detachment or redness.
> 
> Please tell me what I need to do to get better and back to it!


 Hopefully you resolved this issue by now.

My advice to anyone with an injury;

If it hurts at rest, take 3-6 weeks off.

If it only hurts during activity, 2-3 weeks should do the trick.

When you get back to the gym, start lower than your max weight and pyramid back up to your old working set, by then your injury (likely sprain or pulled muscle) will have resolved itself.

Training while injured is what worsens injuries and increases the likely hood of chronicity developing. This has always worked for me personally.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Ghost, will taking a hot bath or shower post workout further aid/promote recovery?


 Picking this one up,

A nice hot bath and shower will relax and relieve tension from the muscle. Loose and relaxed muscle are less prone to injury and can produce more force. I don't know about enhancing recovery, but i believe they can help performance in their own way.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1: How detrimental is working nights towards progress?(providing nutrition is in check, training/progressive overload in check, and sleep even though quality is not best still getting 8/9hours a day) most shifts are 10pm-4am
> 
> 2: is it true anadrol is best taken on an empty stomach? And is it best do do longer at lower dose (e.g 6 weeks at 50mg or 3/4 weeks at 100mg)
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Some people can handle this better than others.

The best way to tell is if you feel well-rested after you wake up from sleep about 30 minutes after. Most people train better in the morning-noon time due to circadian rhythm/cortisol is highest. Our bodies evolved due hunt/gather in the mornings and rest in the evenings when the sun came down.

Orals can be taken either way. Do 6 weeks at 100 mg. Don't be too shy, your liver can take more than you think. Run TUDCA and don't touch alcohol or liver toxic meds (acetaminophen).


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Thank you for the response, been meaning to purchase vitamin D for a while now so ill be sure to get that and to try the 5-htp aswell and see how it helps...thanks for the advice apreciate it :thumbup1:


 All my UK brothers and sisters should be running 5,000 IU Vitamin D3 with a fatty meal year round. Most will be deficient.

You need optimal Vitamin D for mental and physical well-being. It has been tied to strength and body composition as well. You want your levels between 40-80 ng/mL.


----------



## ElChapo

JakobJuice said:


> anectodal best amount of t3/t4 for bulking?
> 
> going full course aas/gh peps/gh/fast acting slin. (all moderate/"smart" doses. everything already tested. looking for the synergy of the compounds...)
> 
> by my experience I tend towards 50mcg t3/100mcg t4...
> 
> thank you.


 Thyroid hormone has very limited use in bodybuilding and performance enhancement. Optimal T4 levels are needed for proper growth and strength. You won't see much benefit from supplementation unless you have a deficiency.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Does taking higher doses of clen burn more fat. For example a typical protocol is 2 weeks stating at 20mg Ed then ramping it up each day to 140mg.
> 
> I would prefer to do the same but go 20 to 40 to 80mg 4 days at each levels rather than hammering up really quick as I feel its "safer"
> 
> Does the aggressive dosing approach to clen burn more fat or simply give you more sides with minimal additional fat loss at the higher doses?


 If you are sensitive to stims or first time clen user, you can use the pyramid approach.

Otherwise, set to the max effective dose and run it until you finish your cut. No need to cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ghost.recon thoughts on using 50mg winstrol with 50mg anavar?


 It will be effective. They are both great compounds. There is no magical synergy though but results should be excellent.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> 100mcg on a bulk, do you know roughly how much 100mcg of t3 increases "your" metabolism? and what do you think of pre or post workout insulin while on a diet, about 10-15iu per day on training days? So what I'm doing looks like this
> 
> 3.5iu gh ED
> 
> 10-15iu humalog pre workout
> 
> 700mg tren
> 
> 150mg test
> 
> 600mg mast
> 
> 50mcg t3
> 
> 200mcg t4 ( same as what you said for bulking, hence the question)


 Seems like overkill, but if you are carrying a massive amount of muscle, it will help preserve it. I don't think it's necessary on a cut.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> over at trainedbyjp, a few of the gurus say never take tudca WHILE ON orals.... and say take them when OFF orals... as being on orals and tudca at same time can actually harm the liver ? is this true ?
> 
> also if your getting lethargy from an oral (Say epistane) would tudca also combat the lethargy ? ive heard some ppl say taking tudca with sdrol minimises the lethargy drastically..... ?


 Nope, you are trying to prevent cholestasis when you take TUDCA. It keeps liver bile flow going which gets impaired by liver toxic AAS.

Some people feel it helps, only way to find out is to experiment yourself. Stimulants are your best friend on an sdrol cycle. Get yourself an extra cup of coffee.


----------



## ElChapo

2time said:


> @ElChapo. About to start a long cruise ( till end of October), stopped jabbing for a week then starting cruise, but should I continue to take hcg and adex? I will do bloods after 6-8 weeks to see how things are going and what needs adjusting. If yes to hcg, what dose would you recommend. Thanks.


 Not jabbing for a week will have zero effect on anything.

Run your HCG always and forever until you come off, if you ever do. It's only necessary if you care about ball size and having kids.

1,000 IU split into two weekly doses. Like Monday/Thursday @ 500 IU each


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Last time I run tren E 300mg (with 300mg test and 50 winny) wrecked my appetite. Now I'm doing the same cycle again but 400mg tren E instead of 300mg and I have a lot of appetite.
> 
> Is it because of tren? Why sometimes it increases appetite and sometimes not?
> 
> Which oral wrecks appetite for a better cutting? I heard of anadrol but can superdrol do the same? I know I could use ephedrine but I feel better using orals, (monitoring my liver).
> 
> Thank you


 Tren affects people differently and those same people get different sides everytime. It's a mystery.

I get the reduced appetite.

Cutting on sdrol is amazing because you never want to eat. In my experience, it has the biggest effect on appetite and lethargy of any oral. It is powerful stuff.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Any benefit to taking caffeine post workout?


 None at all. Caffeine pre-workout and no stims close to bedtime for optimal sleep.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> I haven't read the entire thread but I'm guessing el chapo no longer posts?
> 
> My question is maybe a fairly complex one that requires a very definitive answer...so ghost.recon if you can help that would be great...
> 
> I'm in remission from stage 4 melanoma skin cancer. I'm on a targeted cytotoxic combination therapy that has miraculously shrank any evidence of cancer in my body. Although that doesn't mean there isn't any in me laying dormant etc, it means if it's still there it's so minute that there isn't technology available that can detect it.
> 
> I've used certain PEDs, just AAS and Fat Burner type products throughout my illness and it has had no effect on my recovery - if anything I think it's helped. I know that AAS don't encourage tumour cell proliferation, but for this very reason I would never touch GH, Slin, IGF etc as they definitely can.
> 
> Anyway, I always research whatever I can before I decide to use a specific product or compound and if there's any doubt in my mind about whether or not it's a good idea, based on my health situation, I will not take the risk.
> 
> My question is about metformin and melanotan 2. I've read some scientific articles online that allude to contraindications between these two and melanoma cell growth. However, sometimes these articles can be very complex and I'm really not knowledgeable enough to interpret the findings and reports relating to the question I am asking about if it's safe to use either of these products.
> 
> If anyone can shed any light, you'd be a great help...but if not then it'll just be another questionable risk that I'll leave alone...


 I take long hiatus/breaks sometimes but i'll answer every question i see whenever i get back.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> I haven't read the entire thread but I'm guessing el chapo no longer posts?
> 
> My question is maybe a fairly complex one that requires a very definitive answer...so ghost.recon if you can help that would be great...
> 
> I'm in remission from stage 4 melanoma skin cancer. I'm on a targeted cytotoxic combination therapy that has miraculously shrank any evidence of cancer in my body. Although that doesn't mean there isn't any in me laying dormant etc, it means if it's still there it's so minute that there isn't technology available that can detect it.
> 
> I've used certain PEDs, just AAS and Fat Burner type products throughout my illness and it has had no effect on my recovery - if anything I think it's helped. I know that AAS don't encourage tumour cell proliferation, but for this very reason I would never touch GH, Slin, IGF etc as they definitely can.
> 
> Anyway, I always research whatever I can before I decide to use a specific product or compound and if there's any doubt in my mind about whether or not it's a good idea, based on my health situation, I will not take the risk.
> 
> My question is about metformin and melanotan 2. I've read some scientific articles online that allude to contraindications between these two and melanoma cell growth. However, sometimes these articles can be very complex and I'm really not knowledgeable enough to interpret the findings and reports relating to the question I am asking about if it's safe to use either of these products.
> 
> If anyone can shed any light, you'd be a great help...but if not then it'll just be another questionable risk that I'll leave alone...


 I read the case study where the physicians believe a girl's melanotan 2 injections were feeding the carcinoma. It's hard to go by one case study because the sample is size is extremely small.

If you don't need it, don't use it.

I've seen metformin have anti-carcinogenic effects. If you want to link me to some papers, i can tell you what i think.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> I read @ElChapo said a very good dose for cruising is 300mg of testosterone enanthate. But I also read He uses 200mg of test prop for cruising, pinning Monday
> Wednesday Friday
> 
> He prefers prop to enanthate because some people say (him included) that testosterone enanthate causes some bloat in face/body for a good part of aas users.
> 
> Anyway the question is, what's the best dosage for test prop to run on cruise? For test enanthate you said is 300mg, but I would switch to prop to see if I notice less bloat.
> 
> Thank you so much.


 I feel best at 200 mg test prop, and can get away with x 2 per week dosing.

200-300 mg test p will maintain muscle and strength for most people. It depends how much mass you are trying to hold on to. Mass built with strength training is easier to maintain than that built with high reps alone in my experience.

At 300 mg, my hematocrit does climb up and i need to donate blood. Cardiovascular endurance is also better at 200 mg for me personally.


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I'm planning my next test + deca cycle.
> 
> it will be something like test 400mg/week and deca between 350 and 400mg/week (haven't decided it yet)
> 
> I will take aromasin E3D as per my 1st cycle as it worked perfectly for me.
> 
> will I need to get some cabergoline for the deca?? If so what dosage and frequency would you say?


 Caber can help with the libido issues.

Caber and cialis will fix the limp noodle and loss of interest you might run into. Also carry Nolva or raloxifene to reverse any gyno you might develop.

0.5 mg x 2 per week for caber does it for most people. Dose range is 0.5-1.5 mg per week. split twice.

20 mg cialis E3D or 2.5-10 mg daily depending on severity of erectile dysfunction.

Raloxifene 60-120 mg daily for 4-8 weeks. Mild gyno will be gone within 4-6 weeks. Moderate gyno should be gone around 8-10 weeks. Bad gyno can take +12 weeks, and you can run this for +6 months and it will keep working.


----------



## ElChapo

vEprik said:


> Cruising on 150mgs of test has my e2 levels out of range, what do you think would be less harmful to overall health/hdl etc
> 
> 1) combating e2 with 100mg mast
> 
> 2) aromasin or adex to control to e2
> 
> 3) dont do anything of the above and just dont care about e2 being out of range


 Take as little aromasin or arimidex as needed to bring it down to 20-42 pg/mL.

Aromasin and arimidex will have no harmful effects on your health as long as your E2 is not suppressed completely.

Masteron doesn't lower E2 directly, but can mitigate some of the sides thanks to it's similarity to DHT.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Can someone tend to sweat more on high carb diets and if so why?


 Yes, carbs stimulate the release of leptin and the conversion of T4 into T3. They increase your metabolism. This is why @ghost.recon and i recommend a moderate-high carb intake. For optimal performance, well-being, and aesthetics.

Many can attest to the dog s**t feeling of a keto diet. Serotonin, T3 and leptin levels are through the floor. Muscle flatness and lethargy become a problem. Initially, a keto diet can feel invigorating due to the stress response and adrenaline release, but eventually it burns you out.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> How can you maximise increasing androgen receptor sensitivity?


 This is genetic, you can only have so much AR sensitivity but other things you can tweak are insulin activity/IGF-1, that's why bodybuilder experience a massive increase in anabolism when adding insulin and HGH.

The androgenic pathway is only one of the paths, this is why you get diminishing returns because at a certain level AR receptors are saturated.

This is why insulin / GH opened a whole new door of freakish mass in the 90s, they had already tapped most of the gains they could get from AAS.

Elite bodybuilders are born with high sensitivity in the androgen and IGF receptors. This is why some guys grow like weeds on minimal doses and turn into monsters with higher doses, and others blast grams of test/tren and don't look like they lift. Combine that with hard work ethic, consistency and good coaching and you have what champions are made of.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> What is the optimal dose of Creatine Monohydrate for maximum effect and minimal water retention?


 5-10 grams for most people. The other forms are bullshit. Water retention will happen even at low doses for some people including myself.


----------



## ElChapo

Super -ingh said:


> For us guys who are normal lifters and want to have a little edge, is the whole theory of test only cycles being the safest and easiest cycle (in terms of recovery) true?
> what would you recommend as a cutting and bulking dosages (assuming diet is on point) or would you keep it the same?
> 
> lastly would incorporating 4 weeks of winny or dbol depending if its a cut or bulk adversely affect you in any way (lipids..shutdown etc...)?
> 
> back in training after a year out and I have been considering for years but just want to do test only going forward if I decide to juice
> 
> @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> apologies if its been covered before


 My recommended approach is keeping doses the same from bulk to cut to be on the safe side, maximize the changes of retaining most of your muscle/strength and keeping it simple, but you can get away with 50% less for cutting once the muscle is built.

Try 300 mg test prop and oral winstrol at 50 mg daily. Run for 12 weeks bulk or cut. If you care about fertility or ever plan on PCT, run HCG from start to finish. Test only is nice enough, especially prop, but try the winstrol with it and you won't be sorry.

Lipids will take a hit even from moderate dose testosterone, the temporary effect will not negatively affect your health. It takes many years of impaired lipid profile to have a negative effect on your cardiovascular health.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Should the use of orals be discontinued if your pee is darker( it does go lights when drinking much more) and feeling tired fatigued...I always thought these are sides from using them but couod also be sign of liver/kidney damage?


 No, this is normal. Always happens to me. Run TUDCA and limit your time and dosage to sensible amounts.


----------



## ElChapo

orangeandpears said:


> @ghost.recon been reading about giving your body time to adapt to its new body composition/weight after drastic changes to it, is there any truth to this and does b/c change this?
> 
> for example i plan to cut straight after my 4 month blast at a cruise dose however should i eat at maintenance for awhile so my body adjusts to the new muscle or do the AAS negate this?


 No need, but i recommend a complete 1-2 week break from training AND diet after you finish bulking or cutting. I don't mean a full on binge, i mean eat like you normally would any other day of the year that you werent bulking or cutting. Your mind and body will benefit immensely. Then begin your cut.

Some good links for reading on the subject:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/transition-phase-between-dieting-gaining.html/


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I dont have the knowledge this guy has mate but im telling you from personal experience to NOT do this...id maintain weight for few weeks atleast first...I could be wrong but when I did this I lost alot of progress and I believe its down to the body wasnt adapted to the extra mass put on in just few months time then again I guess everyone is different


 The most important thing you have to do when you transition from bulk to cut is to cut way back on your training volume. Keep intensity high, which means, if you were benching 315 lbs x 10 at the end of your bulk, focus on keeping it that way through the cut. Losing weight and reps is a sign of muscle loss, if you lose very little strength or reps by the end of your cut, you have successfully maintained most of your muscle. Don't go crazy with lots of sets, reps and long gym sessions.(This wastes energy and doesn't help spare muscle) Hit each body group hard once or twice a week and focus on staying strong.

Looking smaller is normal because you won't have the fat and water you had after the bulk, although a lot of guys look more muscular when they reach 12% due to muscle separation as long as they aren't too flat and have a decent amount of muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

heraclitor said:


> hi all.
> 
> i was on B/C the last 4 years, and a didnt use HCG normaly
> 
> now im thinking about taking childs but my LH,fsh and test are at 0. then i think my sperm is ZERO
> 
> im off for the last 4 monts
> 
> i did pTC with 5 shots of HMG and 600ui of HCG
> 
> i used in that protocol exemestane, tamoxifene and clomid too.
> 
> im thinking abuot to repeat PCT but i dont know whats the better mode of doing it for up my hormones
> 
> thanks


 Do you have access to a fertility doctor or a clinic that can analyze your sperm.

Clomiphene at 100 mg daily, run that for 12 weeks and test your testosterone. If your testosterone is at 500 ng/dL and over/mid-range, you have testicular function left. If your testosterone is still very shutdown, IVF may be your only choice.

HMG and HCG are not very effect as PCT, they are best used as prevention. How long was this PCT protocol you ran? You may not have given the SERMS enough time.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Hi mate, post that question here https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/forum/21-steroid-and-testosterone-information/
> 
> This threads been dead for a lifetime (feels that way).


 I'm back and answering questions.


----------



## Endomorph84

Woop woop

hope youre well mate. No ****!


----------



## adam28

ElChapo said:


> I'm back and answering questions.


 Nice to see you back mate 

One question for you.....

Will Ralox affect my E2 reading on my blood test.? I know Ralox does not lower E2 it targets at the nipple/breast, but can it give me a false serum reading when taking it? If so this would make it harder to adjust Adex dosage as you wouldn't know exactly where you are.....

Cheers


----------



## stewedw

Feels like Christmas morning. Welcome Back


----------



## Tricky

How long is too long to run tren e at 300/400mg? Should it be kept to 10 weeks or is 16 weeks ok?

Whats your orefered ratio for test to tren for cutting


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> Cialis is not ideal for lowering blood pressure. The dose needed will cause significant side effects in a lot of people. Congestion, flu feeling and headaches.
> 
> You are better off with a low dose of metoprolol like 25-100 mg daily.


 Thanks. At what bp reading should I start with meds.?

My Drs does see the need for meds when I average bp is 138/89, with a reading like it falls in the pre hypertension category and everywhere you reading saying get it down naturally or meds.


----------



## Pancake'

Thanks for picking up previous questions.

What's your take on clomid and vision issues? I'm apprehensive about ever using it for this reason. @ 25-100mg


----------



## Alibab2001

Finished comp prep 4 weeks ago, had bloods taken after 21 days (at local GP surgery) and only thing out of range was ALT ready - >145. I ran 100mg ED oral winnie for 8 weeks which, to me, is the reason for the high reading.

I am planning on another blood test soon, wondering how long you would recommend i leave it to see values return to acceptable levels, plus also anything i can be doing in the mean time to aid the recovery

@ElChapo thanks in advance


----------



## Endomorph84

Alibab2001 said:


> I ran 100mg ED oral winnie for 8 weeks.


 Wowzers, 100mg ED for 8 weeks!!!! seems like a lot to me.

Not bashing, just curious of any potential sides you may of had?

I've ran it a few times, 50mg ED for 4 weeks tops is enough for me.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Woop woop
> 
> hope youre well mate. No ****!


 Thanks brother, i am well. Glad to be back


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> Nice to see you back mate
> 
> One question for you.....
> 
> Will Ralox affect my E2 reading on my blood test.? I know Ralox does not lower E2 it targets at the nipple/breast, but can it give me a false serum reading when taking it? If so this would make it harder to adjust Adex dosage as you wouldn't know exactly where you are.....
> 
> Cheers


 If you use ECLIA, the cheaper, more common blood test for E2, it will be off.

If you can get the LC/MS assay it is the most accurate and won't be affected by exogenous substances that arent E2.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Feels like Christmas morning. Welcome. Back


 Same feeling, i am excited to be back, founds lots of good questions on my return.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> How long is too long to run tren e at 300/400mg? Should it be kept to 10 weeks or is 16 weeks ok?
> 
> Whats your orefered ratio for test to tren for cutting


 I would personally push the enanthates to 16 weeks.

I am not against longer, 6 months cycles either, these get you a lot of momentum to hit big goals. Just be sensible about it, these very long cycle will take their tolls if you repeat them year after year and hit the orals hard.

The top guys and fitness celebreties are at minimum blasting and crusing year round. Blasting and PCT can be just as unhealthy in it's own way, SERM drugs can be very harsh on the system. However, the body can take a lot, just be sensible and take care of yourself.

Stay active, keep your bloods and BP in range. Stay lean, <12% bf unleas bulking, then stay at 15% or under for best results, health and aesthetics.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Thanks. At what bp reading should I start with meds.?
> 
> My Drs does see the need for meds when I average bp is 138/89, with a reading like it falls in the pre hypertension category and everywhere you reading saying get it down naturally or meds.


 If your top or bottom number are consistently at or over 140/90, take as small amount of beta block as you need. Ideally, keep it at or under 120/80.

You don't want to go under 100/55 mmhg.

I would take an absolute baby dose of beta blocker and bring that down a bit.

Chronic hypertension and uncontrolled blood sugar are the two main causes of the need for renal dialysis. They destroy kidney cells by impairing the vasculature that provides nutrition and oxygen.

What's your approximate body fat percentage? If you get lean and do regular cardio, you can probably pull that number without meds to a great level and no side effects.

Are you cruising year round or on any meds or AAS with the 139/89 ?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Thanks for picking up previous questions.
> 
> What's your take on clomid and vision issues? I'm apprehensive about ever using it for this reason. @ 25-100mg


 It's not a problem for most people, this goes back to what i said about PCT drugs. they can be quite harsh in their own way.

Nolvadex is toxic to brain cells. Again, the body can handle it though , barring certain special cases.

Most people will be fine running a PCT or fertility protocol of clomid. I would never run it year round as TRT for various reasons including the vision risk.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Same feeling, i am excited to be back, founds lots of good questions on my return.


 Awesome. The return of The King.!

So...

*GDAs:*

I am using 4IU GH ED, and have done for a long time. Like, 7-8 months. I see no reason to come off, since I can source legit pfizer pens year round now.

My FG and post prandial readings are aways healthy, as is my HB1AC.

(I notice that alcohol and sleep seem to affect them more than GH/carb consumption, but anyway)..

Up to now, I've been using generic metaformin at 500-1500mg a day depending on intake of carbs. I know it has an 8 hour half life.

OR "high strength" OTC GDA products like this:

https://www.stromsports.com/collections/featured/products/strom-presents-glycomax-240-caps-60-servings

And this:

https://www.supplementneeds.co.uk/collections/supplement-needs/products/supplement-needs-glucose-disposal-stack

Ideally, I don't want to take generic metaformin for, like, life. Loads of reason why, chief among which is the social acceptability of having a generic medication with you when e..g eating out in social situations. However:

*Question 1:*

Is metaformin actually any better than these OTC alternatives, *and* does it have any downsides for health or performance (latterly I read a lot about this, but with no real scientific evidence to support it)?

*Question 2:*

If OTC GDAs are fine to use indefinitely in place of metaformin, what is the half life of them?

Those two brands above have similar products and recommend very different dosing protocols on the labels. Both are Berberine HCL-based, and one says "take 2-5 caps (300-750mg), 1-5 times daily", and the other says "take two caps (1500mg) once or twice a day". That's a range of between 300mg to 3000mg daily. Clearly you scale it with carb intake, but you eat carbs all day most of the time... so... If the half life of B-HCL is like 2hrs, then Strom is the obvious choice as you can more easily scale the product to your consumption. But if it doesn't matter at all, because the half life is like 24hrs, then Supplement Needs' product is better and cheaper.

Many, many thanks for reading and responding.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> If your top or bottom number are consistently at or over 140/90, take as small amount of beta block as you need. Ideally, keep it at or under 120/80.
> 
> *You don't want to go under 100/55 mmhg.*
> 
> I would take an absolute baby dose of beta blocker and bring that down a bit.
> 
> Chronic hypertension and uncontrolled blood sugar are the two main causes of the need for renal dialysis. They destroy kidney cells by impairing the vasculature that provides nutrition and oxygen.
> 
> What's your approximate body fat percentage? If you get lean and do regular cardio, you can probably pull that number without meds to a great level and no side effects.
> 
> Are you cruising year round or on any meds or AAS with the 139/89 ?


 Mine is regularly as low as 90/60. I eat very well, do a ton of cardio, and take beetroot caps. Am I at risk of something, or can I carry on trucking?


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> Finished comp prep 4 weeks ago, had bloods taken after 21 days (at local GP surgery) and only thing out of range was ALT ready - >145. I ran 100mg ED oral winnie for 8 weeks which, to me, is the reason for the high reading.
> 
> I am planning on another blood test soon, wondering how long you would recommend i leave it to see values return to acceptable levels, plus also anything i can be doing in the mean time to aid the recovery
> 
> @ElChapo thanks in advance


 A month should do it. Winstrol at 100 mg will definitely raise AST ALT.

TUDCA or UDCA will help your liver clear itself faster. You can also take it during your winstrol cycle next time.

Remember, intense training can also elevate liver enzymes a bit too.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome. The return of The King.!
> 
> So...
> 
> *GDAs:*
> 
> I am using 4IU GH ED, and have done for a long time. Like, 7-8 months. I see no reason to come off, since I can source legit pfizer pens year round now.
> 
> My FG and post prandial readings are aways healthy, as is my HB1AC.
> 
> (I notice that alcohol and sleep seem to affect them more than GH/carb consumption, but anyway)..
> 
> Up to now, I've been using generic metaformin at 500-1500mg a day depending on intake of carbs. I know it has an 8 hour half life.
> 
> OR "high strength" OTC GDA products like this:
> 
> https://www.stromsports.com/collections/featured/products/strom-presents-glycomax-240-caps-60-servings
> 
> And this:
> 
> https://www.supplementneeds.co.uk/collections/supplement-needs/products/supplement-needs-glucose-disposal-stack
> 
> Ideally, I don't want to take generic metaformin for, like, life. Loads of reason why, chief among which is the social acceptability of having a generic medication with you when e..g eating out in social situations. However:
> 
> *Question 1:*
> 
> Is metaformin actually any better than these OTC alternatives, *and* does it have any downsides for health or performance (latterly I read a lot about this, but with no real scientific evidence to support it)?
> 
> *Question 2:*
> 
> If OTC GDAs are fine to use indefinitely in place of metaformin, what is the half life of them?
> 
> Those two brands above have similar products and recommend very different dosing protocols on the labels. Both are Berberine HCL-based, and one says "take 2-5 caps (300-750mg), 1-5 times daily", and the other says "take two caps (1500mg) once or twice a day". That's a range of between 300mg to 3000mg daily. Clearly you scale it with carb intake, but you eat carbs all day most of the time... so... If the half life of B-HCL is like 2hrs, then Strom is the obvious choice as you can more easily scale the product to your consumption. But if it doesn't matter at all, because the half life is like 24hrs, then Supplement Needs' product is better and cheaper.
> 
> Many, many thanks for reading and responding.


 Berberine can be as effective as met.

For further reading:

https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/

People are still messing around with metformin and trying to figure out if it's worth it. It's definitely a very cool compound with lots of potential.

People i know who use it say it helps with body composition and there is research showing a possible life extension effect. I wanna see more research and anecdotes, but it's an exciting compound for sure and there should be some synergy with the GH.

I wouldn't worry too much about timing the berberine, at most you can take it with your first and last meal.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Mine is regularly as low as 90/60. I eat very well, do a ton of cardio, and take beetroot caps. Am I at risk of something, or can I carry on trucking?


 That's perfectly fine and very healthy.

My guideline was for someone taking anti-hypertensive drugs, as it puts them at a high risk for orthostatic hypotension, a fancy term for getting dizzy when standing up.

When we give insulin to diabetics, you would think we wanna keep them at 70-80 the ideal, normal range, however the risk of hypoglycemia isn't worth it for many physicians, so they keep the blood sugar a bit higher as a buffer.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> I would personally push the enanthates to 16 weeks.
> 
> I am not against longer, 6 months cycles either, these get you a lot of momentum to hit big goals. Just be sensible about it, these very long cycle will take their tolls if you repeat them year after year and hit the orals hard.
> 
> The top guys and fitness celebreties are at minimum blasting and crusing year round. Blasting and PCT can be just as unhealthy in it's own way, SERM drugs can be very harsh on the system. However, the body can take a lot, just be sensible and take care of yourself.
> 
> Stay active, keep your bloods and BP in range. Stay lean, <12% bf unleas bulking, then stay at 15% or under for best results, health and aesthetics.


 Thanks. I don't bother with orals and certainly avoid clomid and nolva. Just wondering how long is too long on tren. I'll go the 16 and see how I am.


----------



## Alibab2001

Endomorph84 said:


> Wowzers, 100mg ED for 8 weeks!!!! seems like a lot to me.
> 
> Not bashing, just curious of any potential sides you may of had?
> 
> I've ran it a few times, 50mg ED for 4 weeks tops is enough for me.


 I did run tudca with it, and high dose vit d. I accept its a high dose - not something i would normally do. I did it as it was my second show of the year and didn't want to run tren again - did a very basic test primo and winstrol cycle and was really happy with improvements over 1st show of the year.

Personally i felt very strong on it - gym performance didn't suffer at all - in fact i kept progressing right up until comp date. the only sides I've seen is the significantly elevated liver values

thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> I did run tudca with it, and high dose vit d. I accept its a high dose - not something i would normally do. I did it as it was my second show of the year and didn't want to run tren again - did a very basic test primo and winstrol cycle and was really happy with improvements over 1st show of the year.
> 
> Personally i felt very strong on it - gym performance didn't suffer at all - in fact i kept progressing right up until comp date. the only sides I've seen is the significantly elevated liver values
> 
> thanks mate


 100 mg winstrol daily for 8 weeks is fine and an excellent stack for advanced/elite trainees.

In terms of strength AND aesthetics, winstrol is #1 in my experience.


----------



## Endomorph84

Alibab2001 said:


> I did run tudca with it, and high dose vit d. I accept its a high dose - not something i would normally do. I did it as it was my second show of the year and didn't want to run tren again - did a very basic test primo and winstrol cycle and was really happy with improvements over 1st show of the year.
> 
> Personally i felt very strong on it - gym performance didn't suffer at all - in fact i kept progressing right up until comp date. the only sides I've seen is the significantly elevated liver values
> 
> thanks mate


 Cheers mate, very informative. Ill consider upping the dose when I start my next blast.

FWIW I love the stuff, never had strength gains like it.

Cheers men


----------



## Alibab2001

ElChapo said:


> 100 mg winstrol daily for 8 weeks is fine and an excellent stack for advanced/elite trainees.
> 
> In terms of strength AND aesthetics, winstrol is #1 in my experience.


 definitely the best run on an oral for me - i get no stomach issues (Dbol and Anadrol), no blood pressure issues (anadrol), no lethargy issues (superdrol). going forward I dont see me using any other oral


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> definitely the best run on an oral for me - i get no stomach issues (Dbol and Anadrol), no blood pressure issues (anadrol), no lethargy issues (superdrol). going forward I dont see me using any other oral


 It's cheap and easy to find too.


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

What's you view on hydrolysed collagen and glutathione as supplements ?

If you were to put together a basic and effective supplement stack for cardiovascular health, blood pressure, kidney health and liver support to use during a cycle what would you use and at what dosages


----------



## Devil

Been blast and cruising 2.5 years.

Used hcg at 500uix2 per week for about 75% of that's time.

Revently had a period where I didn't and couldn't get a source, so a solid 4-5 months without it.

Stocked up massively again now. Would you just suggest I restart at 500uix2 a week and continue indefinitely?

fertility is important to me at 25 (also, can I get my levels checked whilst b and c? Will that provide any info that I'm fine/not fine).

thank you mate, an asset to have you back answering.

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Been blast and cruising 2.5 years.
> 
> Used hcg at 500uix2 per week for about 75% of that's time.
> 
> Revently had a period where I didn't and couldn't get a source, so a solid 4-5 months without it.
> 
> Stocked up massively again now. Would you just suggest I restart at 500uix2 a week and continue indefinitely?
> 
> fertility is important to me at 25 (also, can I get my levels checked whilst b and c? Will that provide any info that I'm fine/not fine).
> 
> thank you mate, an asset to have you back answering.
> 
> @ElChapo


 I'll give you a solid tip.

Take a 2-3 month supply of your HCG out of your stockpile and put it elsewhere. Once you have to dip into that 2-3 month supply you put away, you know you have to restock. I do this for my pins and it works very well to keep my inventory stocked up and keeps me from running out.

How much have your balls shrank since you started blasting and cruising? Did they shrink during the time period that you stopped taking HCG when you ran out?

Your best bet is getting a yearly sperm analysis to keep an eye on fertility, this is the absolute best option if you have access to it.

Keep doing 1,000 IU weekly. Testicle shrinkage is a decent indicator whether it's working or not.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> I'll give you a solid tip.
> 
> Take a 2-3 month supply of your HCG out of your stockpile and put it elsewhere. Once you have to dip into that 2-3 month supply you put away, you know you have to restock. I do this for my pins and it works very well to keep my inventory stocked up and keeps me from running out.
> 
> How much have your balls shrank since you started blasting and cruising? Did they shrink during the time period that you stopped taking HCG when you ran out?
> 
> Your best bet is getting a yearly sperm analysis to keep an eye on fertility, this is the absolute best option if you have access to it.
> 
> Keep doing 1,000 IU weekly. Testicle shrinkage is a decent indicator whether it's working or not.


 Thanks mate. Well I just bought a year's worth lol, so can do that easy.

They didn't shrink massively (I've seen others comment on how theirs dissapear basically!), but definitely were smaller.

Since restarting again, I'm certain they've already got bigger (in 2 weeks of 1000ui per week).

Doc is happy to give me a fertility check, so I'll get one in the coming months whilst always maintaining hcg.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thanks mate. Well I just bought a year's worth lol, so can do that easy.
> 
> They didn't shrink massively (I've seen others comment on how theirs dissapear basically!), but definitely were smaller.
> 
> Since restarting again, I'm certain they've already got bigger (in 2 weeks of 1000ui per week).
> 
> Doc is happy to give me a fertility check, so I'll get one in the coming months whilst always maintaining hcg.


 Yeah, get a fertility check once yearly and you can keep track of it.


----------



## zariph

Hello!

Usually I hear people doing 500mg test E split twice a week for first cycle. What to do if I got some 375ml ampoules, can I just do 375 every5D?

Also what do you recommend for first cycle, I see you mentioned test P instead of E?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's you view on hydrolysed collagen and glutathione as supplements ?
> 
> If you were to put together a basic and effective supplement stack for cardiovascular health, blood pressure, kidney health and liver support to use during a cycle what would you use and at what dosages


 Seconded. Interested to hear the answer.


----------



## TURBS

zariph said:


> What to do if I got some 375ml ampoules, can I just do 375 every5D?


 What brand are they mate, only ever heard of amps in 250mg?


----------



## zariph

T3RBO said:


> What brand are they mate, only ever heard of amps in 250mg?


 Phoenix, any1 used these? I think they are india based ugl


----------



## Pancake'

I want to utilise and milk Testosterone as much as possible. I'm thinking of two 16 week blasts a year followed by a 20 week break in between with cruising or PCT.

the first one being 350mg Test E, the second Test E @ 500mg or should I just run both @ 500mg?

Also

_Roughly_ this will differ, but in your experience & observation, how high ramping up Test doses, before diminished returns become apparent? I really enjoy my training and I'm happy to leave the more exotic compounds further down the line and focus on building a solid foundation in meantime.

I'm thinking to just keep progressively running Test cycles up to around 1.5-2g mark, favouring long esters. I know Test alone won't make me look freaky as such, I'm viewing it more as a improved recovery, elevated mood/life and ultimately to get big & strong to build most my muscle with.


----------



## TURBS

zariph said:


> Phoenix, any1 used these? I think they are india based ugl


 Ah you're running Testocom which is similar to Sustanon, hence the 375mg 

Can't say I've come across them much and all reviews I've seen are a few years old.


----------



## zariph

T3RBO said:


> Ah you're running Testocom which is similar to Sustanon, hence the 375mg
> 
> Can't say I've come across them and all reviews I've seen are a few years old.


 no not testocom, test E(test inject)


----------



## TURBS

zariph said:


> no not testocom, test E(test inject)


 Test inject is 250mg mate :confused1:


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello!
> 
> Usually I hear people doing 500mg test E split twice a week for first cycle. What to do if I got some 375ml ampoules, can I just do 375 every5D?
> 
> Also what do you recommend for first cycle, I see you mentioned test P instead of E?


 375 mg will do fine, or you can push to 750 mg weekly. Up to you.

I prefer Test P but testosterone enathate will do the trick for a first cycle. I feel and look better on testosterone propionate and don't bloat even on high doses. That's just my personal observation.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Seconded. Interested to hear the answer.


 The most important supplement, period, is daily cardiovascular exercise. This is more effective and potent than any supplement for physical and mental well-being and health.

Collagen is okay, and NAC is better at increasing glutathione levels than taking glutathione itself.

TUDCA for liver support if taking orals, cardio & low dose cialis (2.5-5 mg daily) for heart protection.

If BP is over 150/90 chronically on cycle, take low dose beta blocker like metoprolol 25-100 mg daily. Otherwise, slight elevations are not harmful in the short term.

Ralox/cialis on hand if running tren/deca.

@Jonk189


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I want to utilise and milk Testosterone as much as possible. I'm thinking of two 16 week blasts a year followed by a 20 week break in between with cruising or PCT.
> 
> the first one being 350mg Test E, the second Test E @ 500mg or should I just run both @ 500mg?
> 
> Also
> 
> _Roughly_ this will differ, but in your experience & observation, how high ramping up Test doses, before diminished returns become apparent? I really enjoy my training and I'm happy to leave the more exotic compounds further down the line and focus on building a solid foundation in meantime.
> 
> I'm thinking to just keep progressively running Test cycles up to around 1.5-2g mark, favouring long esters. I know Test alone won't make me look freaky as such, I'm viewing it more as a improved recovery, elevated mood/life and ultimately to get big & strong to build most my muscle with.


 You will always look really good at or under a true 12% body fat once you have some muscle built up. You can get great results on testosterone only. Results will really start to diminish after 1.5 grams, once you are hitting grams of AAS, you want to introduce GH/Insulin to get to the next level.

This all depends on your goals and genetics.

A lot of people think they are at 12% when they really aren't, see below for a good example of 11%.

















*https://legionathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/xfasted-cardio-results-1.jpg.pagespeed.ic.FJWeObboUH.webp*


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> You will always look really good at or under a true 12% body fat once you have some muscle built up. You can get great results on testosterone only. Results will really start to diminish after 1.5 grams, once you are hitting grams of AAS, you want to introduce GH/Insulin to get to the next level.
> 
> This all depends on your goals and genetics.
> 
> A lot of people think they are at 12% when they really aren't, see below for a good example of 11%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *https://legionathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/xfasted-cardio-results-1.jpg.pagespeed.ic.FJWeObboUH.webp*


 Hijack: Can't see the pictures or get the link to work?

Thanks for your replies to my other posts though.


----------



## SlinMeister

If I want to bulk with:

250 TestE

1000 TrenE

Which AAS I can add to have best gains in a minimum time frame of 6w?

Just Winstrol?


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Hijack: Can't see the pictures or get the link to work?
> 
> Thanks for your replies to my other posts though.


 11%

Try that


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> 11%
> 
> Try that


 Sorry bud.

maybe it's an apple or iPhone thing.?


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Sorry bud.
> 
> maybe it's an apple or iPhone thing.?


 Working for me on the desktop, maybe.

How about now?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Working for me on the desktop, maybe.
> 
> How about now?
> 
> View attachment 166207


 Got it.

mega. I'm sub 10 then.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Got it.
> 
> mega. I'm sub 10 then.


 Excellent, I recommend staying under 15% year round. No reason to go higher than 15% during a bulk. Low body fat enhances insulin activity in the body, and allows you to really see your muscles pop.

After 15% you lose a significant amount of muscle separation and cutting back down to a lean level starts to take a decent amount of time.


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo would 193g of carbs suffice on a cut? I read here that you prefer a moderate intake of carbs for aesthetics, energy etc. I'm currently at 2000kcal so 199g protein, 193g carbs and 42g fat


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo would 193g of carbs suffice on a cut? I read here that you prefer a moderate intake of carbs for aesthetics, energy etc. I'm currently at 2000kcal so 199g protein, 193g carbs and 42g fat


 Get the minimum intake of protein required for muscle preservation (1 g per lbs of lean body mass , not total weight), fill the rest up with carbs. Keep fat low, but don't go out of your way to avoid it.

A 25-40% caloric deficit depending on your tolerance for harsher dieting, time table for results, etc and light daily cardio for 30 mins.

What is your weight and approximate bf%? Your protein and carb requirement will scale off your lean body mass. The tissue that matters.


----------



## Nara

ElChapo said:


> Get the minimum intake of protein required for muscle preservation (1 g per lbs of lean body mass , not total weight), fill the rest up with carbs. Keep fat low, but don't go out of your way to avoid it.
> 
> A 25-40% caloric deficit depending on your tolerance for harsher dieting, time table for results, etc and light daily cardio for 30 mins.
> 
> What is your weight and approximate bf%? Your protein and carb requirement will scale off your lean body mass. The tissue that matters.


 I've sent a PM


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo

Whats the Best pct and recovery protocol when someone has been blasting and crusing for years but has been running low dose hcg throughtout (1000iu pw)


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Whats the Best pct and recovery protocol when someone has been blasting and crusing for years but has been running low dose hcg throughtout (1000iu pw)


 For fertility- Clomid 100 mg for until conception, then discontinue.

For return to natural test levels- Clomid 100 mg for 8 weeks, then stop and test total testosterone 6 weeks later.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

Hi mate, recently after a short virus I got bloods done. I had been on 1ml m w f of a rip 200 blend of test tren mast for six weeks until I got the noro virus so dropped to 100mg test e per week for a month.

Week 5 I took 250mg test Monday, then the following Monday, gave blood on the Tuesday.

Estrogen was 280 (the bloke said ideally he would want me under 70?)

Ast was raised ten percent above norm, alt was 70 (range goes to 56?)

Test levels were just out of upper ranger at 40 (range goes to 36)

Im unsure of the measurements etc but I'm sure you'll make sense of the above. This was at a local steroid centre near where I live, and technically it's meant to be done for guys that have finished pct six weeks beforehand so they weren't best pleased when I was still on.

By my own admission I had a bad month or two with binge drinking fri/sat and using class a due to an injury and frustration, I felt u well which led to me getting bloods.

Nothing really seemed out of range (free test wasn't noted) kidney function was within range although no figures to give.

I have athletes heart and a follow up in three months (only found out five years ago) and was told no issues, no abnormal growth or thickening. But perhaps a murmur.

My dad is on beta blockers for high BP but no other family issues (he is 72)

My last gp app was the same day as the bloods, four weeks ago, and 147/79 was my BP. The doc wasn't bothered.

So I'm surprised my bloods after seven years of blasting and cruising aren't really bad, is this normal?

Blood pressure seems high but was three days after a 36 hour bender.

I've lost a faur tonne of muscle this year after being off for six months due to torn rotator, now seeing physio and managing to get back to 90% of lifts as long as I keep going for her to prevent the impingement that appears to have stayed since hurting myself.

I walk four miles a day with my job and added 35 mins cardio x3 times a week.

I'm 37, 6ft 2 93kg approx 12-14% bf

Long winded way of asking

1/ are my bloods I've mentioned above a concern?

2/ is my BP an issues and if so what changes can I make shirt and long term?

3/ in my pursuit to re gain the 10kg of muscle I've lost I planned test npp winny cycle. Not fussed if it takes three months or 9, what's the smartest approach?

4/ my estrogen seems sky high for such a low dose of test. I assume my aromasin should go from 12.5mg Monday and Thursday to at least 25mg m w f? If so how long does it take to get estrogen under control and when from today should I get bloods again?

Apologies for the long message, I thought it better to post in context then to just ask four random questions.

Cheers mate, appreciate all the time you've already put into this thread.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> If your top or bottom number are consistently at or over 140/90, take as small amount of beta block as you need. Ideally, keep it at or under 120/80.
> 
> You don't want to go under 100/55 mmhg.
> 
> I would take an absolute baby dose of beta blocker and bring that down a bit.
> 
> Chronic hypertension and uncontrolled blood sugar are the two main causes of the need for renal dialysis. They destroy kidney cells by impairing the vasculature that provides nutrition and oxygen.
> 
> What's your approximate body fat percentage? If you get lean and do regular cardio, you can probably pull that number without meds to a great level and no side effects.
> 
> Are you cruising year round or on any meds or AAS with the 139/89 ?


 Body fat now is roughly going by the photos online some where between 15% -18% Mark. This was me in Sept, I have put a few pounds on but not that much..

As for cardio I do a mixture of liss and hiit most hiit lately on the rower and power bike.

Been on AAS since January but only low dose max was 14 weeks of 300mg test before my hols. When dropped down to 100mg bp did not change much.

I think I just have naturally high bp.

Thanks for you time.


----------



## stewedw

Will2309 said:


> Body fat now is roughly going by the photos online some where between 15% -18% Mark. This was me in Sept, I have put a few pounds on but not that much..
> 
> As for cardio I do a mixture of liss and hiit most hiit lately on the rower and power bike.
> 
> Been on AAS since January but only low dose max was 14 weeks of 300mg test before my hols. When dropped down to 100mg bp did not change much.
> 
> I think I just have naturally high bp.
> 
> Thanks for you time.
> 
> View attachment 166215


 I'd say you are leaner than you have suggested. Maybe more like 12-14%? Do you check bp yourself?


----------



## Pancake'

Achieving extreme muscle density. their is a Bodybuilder your side, Shawn Smith, I've never stumbled across anyone with that level of mass as dense as him. is this simply a byproduct of hard training + dry stacks in high doses? Very impressive regardless. overall what really goes on maintaining that level of development?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hi mate, recently after a short virus I got bloods done. I had been on 1ml m w f of a rip 200 blend of test tren mast for six weeks until I got the noro virus so dropped to 100mg test e per week for a month.
> 
> Week 5 I took 250mg test Monday, then the following Monday, gave blood on the Tuesday.
> 
> Estrogen was 280 (the bloke said ideally he would want me under 70?)
> 
> Ast was raised ten percent above norm, alt was 70 (range goes to 56?)
> 
> Test levels were just out of upper ranger at 40 (range goes to 36)
> 
> Im unsure of the measurements etc but I'm sure you'll make sense of the above. This was at a local steroid centre near where I live, and technically it's meant to be done for guys that have finished pct six weeks beforehand so they weren't best pleased when I was still on.
> 
> By my own admission I had a bad month or two with binge drinking fri/sat and using class a due to an injury and frustration, I felt u well which led to me getting bloods.
> 
> Nothing really seemed out of range (free test wasn't noted) kidney function was within range although no figures to give.
> 
> I have athletes heart and a follow up in three months (only found out five years ago) and was told no issues, no abnormal growth or thickening. But perhaps a murmur.
> 
> My dad is on beta blockers for high BP but no other family issues (he is 72)
> 
> My last gp app was the same day as the bloods, four weeks ago, and 147/79 was my BP. The doc wasn't bothered.
> 
> So I'm surprised my bloods after seven years of blasting and cruising aren't really bad, is this normal?
> 
> Blood pressure seems high but was three days after a 36 hour bender.
> 
> I've lost a faur tonne of muscle this year after being off for six months due to torn rotator, now seeing physio and managing to get back to 90% of lifts as long as I keep going for her to prevent the impingement that appears to have stayed since hurting myself.
> 
> I walk four miles a day with my job and added 35 mins cardio x3 times a week.
> 
> I'm 37, 6ft 2 93kg approx 12-14% bf
> 
> Long winded way of asking
> 
> 1/ are my bloods I've mentioned above a concern?
> 
> 2/ is my BP an issues and if so what changes can I make shirt and long term?
> 
> 3/ in my pursuit to re gain the 10kg of muscle I've lost I planned test npp winny cycle. Not fussed if it takes three months or 9, what's the smartest approach?
> 
> 4/ my estrogen seems sky high for such a low dose of test. I assume my aromasin should go from 12.5mg Monday and Thursday to at least 25mg m w f? If so how long does it take to get estrogen under control and when from today should I get bloods again?
> 
> Apologies for the long message, I thought it better to post in context then to just ask four random questions.
> 
> Cheers mate, appreciate all the time you've already put into this thread.


 To prevent shoulder issues from lots of benching and pressing , always do face pulls or rows after you do any pressing movement to balance the shoulder girdle and muscles. Impingement and other issues happen due to muscle imbalances from over training the anterior delts and under training the posterior delts. Doing face pulls and rows will keep the shoulders balanced.

1)

2 issues regarding your E2 levels:

1. I need to know if your e2 is ECLIA test or LC/MS test and the unit of measurement used ; Pmol/L or pg/mL

2. You took trenbolone which is picked up as E2, this is likely why your levels appeared so high. You need the LC/MS test in order to get accurate E2 levels while taking trenbolone. ECLIA will not be accurate, but it's cheaper and more widely available.

2)

Regarding your BP levels, if your cycle is short, like 12 weeks, you can leave it there. If you are running this cycle for longer, i would advise a low dose beta blocker like metoprolol to bring that down under 130/90 mmhg. Doctor's don't care if your BP is high or your test is low half the time and by the time you realize it, it's too late. Your BP level will lead to cardiovascular and renal issues in the future if it stays that high long enough.

Re-test your BP when you are calm in the afternoon or before bedtime.

3) Thanks to muscle memory, you will get your muscle back very quickly. You can go as low as 300/300 mg test/npp or 500/500 mg per week, and add winstrol at 50-100 mg daily (oral) . It's going to depend on your experience level, how you respond, etc.

4) Your E2 is probably appearing high due to trenbolone, you can re-test once the tren is out of your system.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Body fat now is roughly going by the photos online some where between 15% -18% Mark. This was me in Sept, I have put a few pounds on but not that much..
> 
> As for cardio I do a mixture of liss and hiit most hiit lately on the rower and power bike.
> 
> Been on AAS since January but only low dose max was 14 weeks of 300mg test before my hols. When dropped down to 100mg bp did not change much.
> 
> I think I just have naturally high bp.
> 
> Thanks for you time.
> 
> View attachment 166215





stewedw said:


> I'd say you are leaner than you have suggested. Maybe more like 12-14%? Do you check bp yourself?


 I agree, you are likely 12-14% in the pic above


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Body fat now is roughly going by the photos online some where between 15% -18% Mark. This was me in Sept, I have put a few pounds on but not that much..
> 
> As for cardio I do a mixture of liss and hiit most hiit lately on the rower and power bike.
> 
> Been on AAS since January but only low dose max was 14 weeks of 300mg test before my hols. When dropped down to 100mg bp did not change much.
> 
> I think I just have naturally high bp.
> 
> Thanks for you time.
> 
> View attachment 166215


 I would consider a baby dose of beta blocker, i'm not one to push meds but chronically elevated BP will strain the heart, kidneys, and eyes over decades. Since you are already doing cardio and already fairly lean, i would consider a little bit of metoprolol.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Achieving extreme muscle density. their is a Bodybuilder your side, Shawn Smith, I've never stumbled across anyone with that level of mass as dense as him. is this simply a byproduct of hard training + dry stacks in high doses? Very impressive regardless. overall what really goes on maintaining that level of development?


 He has a massive amount of muscle, extremely dry skin and very low bodyfat while still being full (this is key), and his muscle bellies are world class. Genetics+AAS/GH/SLIN, years of adding muscle to the frame and low body fat.


----------



## Will2309

stewedw said:


> I'd say you are leaner than you have suggested. Maybe more like 12-14%? Do you check bp yourself?


 Yes mate I check it at home with a omron m3 monitor.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> To prevent shoulder issues from lots of benching and pressing , always do face pulls or rows after you do any pressing movement to balance the shoulder girdle and muscles. Impingement and other issues happen due to muscle imbalances from over training the anterior delts and under training the posterior delts. Doing face pulls and rows will keep the shoulders balanced.
> 
> 1)
> 
> 2 issues regarding your E2 levels:
> 
> 1. I need to know if your e2 is ECLIA test or LC/MS test and the unit of measurement used ; Pmol/L or pg/mL
> 
> 2. You took trenbolone which is picked up as E2, this is likely why your levels appeared so high. You need the LC/MS test in order to get accurate E2 levels while taking trenbolone. ECLIA will not be accurate, but it's cheaper and more widely available.
> 
> 2)
> 
> Regarding your BP levels, if your cycle is short, like 12 weeks, you can leave it there. If you are running this cycle for longer, i would advise a low dose beta blocker like metoprolol to bring that down under 130/90 mmhg. Doctor's don't care if your BP is high or your test is low half the time and by the time you realize it, it's too late. Your BP level will lead to cardiovascular and renal issues in the future if it stays that high long enough.
> 
> Re-test your BP when you are calm in the afternoon or before bedtime.
> 
> 3) Thanks to muscle memory, you will get your muscle back very quickly. You can go as low as 300/300 mg test/npp or 500/500 mg per week, and add winstrol at 50-100 mg daily (oral) . It's going to depend on your experience level, how you respond, etc.
> 
> 4) Your E2 is probably appearing high due to trenbolone, you can re-test once the tren is out of your system. E2


 Estrogen was pg/ml and you've nailed it as far as the tren making it incorrect, i forgot you had touched on this before.

I've been doing the back excercises the physio gave and the difference after a couple of treatments was day and night.

Face pulls also on chest and back days with static holds for the last couple of sets, I'm thinking that I must sleep funny or over stretch the teres minor during my day as that's were the issue was. At work (driving a van and walking dogs)

Yeah just a 12 week cycle with proper support and cardio, I'll buy a decent home BP monitor and note it plus I'm no liner taking any class a as it gave me a fright tbh.

I usually does steady state cardio so will add some hiit

I'll get bloods a ouole of months afte my cycle when on trt.

Appreciate the response. Thank you.


----------



## MarkyMark

Welcome back @ElChapo

I have been using 75iu of HMG mon to Fri along side 500iu HCG e2 days for the past 7 weeks now.

I had a blood test for FSH done 24 hours following one of the 75iu HMG shots. It's came back as 3.78 mIu/ML.

I used a home sperm analysis kit (http://www.yospermtest.com) to test my sperm for number of motile sperm per ML and it came back above the 6million motile sperm per ML (albeit in the low normal range) which is pretty good I think as at time of testing I was mid way through the 3 month mark it takes for the testes to produce a sperm cell.

My question is, would it be benifical for the next few weeks to bump the HMG dose to maybe achieve a higher FSH blood concentration?

I know achieving a to high FSH level (based of research) can have an averse affect on sperm production however would maintaining an average FSH level to say 6 or 7 mIu/ML be more productive for sperm production than my levels tested as per above?


----------



## adam28

ElChapo said:


> Regarding your E2 levels:
> 
> 1. I need to know if your e2 is ECLIA test or LC/MS test and the unit of measurement used ; Pmol/L or pg/mL
> 
> 2. You took trenbolone which is picked up as E2, this is likely why your levels appeared so high. You need the LC/MS test in order to get accurate E2 levels while taking trenbolone. ECLIA will not be accurate, but it's cheaper and more widely used.


 NPP being a 19nors too, would the E2 reading be affected on a ECLIA test same as Tren would ?

Cheers mate.


----------



## Tricky

@El Chapo for cialis dosing would you recommend

5mg every day

10mg eod

20mg as and when required or every 3 days


----------



## Jonk891

Tricky said:


> @El Chapo for cialis dosing would you recommend
> 
> 5mg every day
> 
> 10mg eod
> 
> 20mg as and when required or every 3 days


 2.5 -5mg daily is a nice dose. I use 5 myself. Just thought I add what I use and find effective


----------



## Tricky

Jonk891 said:


> 2.5 -5mg daily is a nice dose. I use 5 myself. Just thought I add what I use and find effective


 Do you find that more benifical than say 20mg the days you were going to have sex?


----------



## Jonk891

Tricky said:


> Do you find that more benifical than say 20mg the days you were going to have sex?


 I don't need them for sex but they deffinatly help. I have sex daily so they are constantly in my system. I get great pumps in the gym as well. I mainly use them for cardiovascular benefits


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Yes mate I check it at home with a omron m3 monitor.


 These are very accurate machines. Just make sure you don't put it on too tight, it should be firm, but you should be able to slip your fingers in with some resistance. The tighter the cuff, higher the BP will come out.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Estrogen was pg/ml and you've nailed it as far as the tren making it incorrect, i forgot you had touched on this before.
> 
> I've been doing the back excercises the physio gave and the difference after a couple of treatments was day and night.
> 
> Face pulls also on chest and back days with static holds for the last couple of sets, I'm thinking that I must sleep funny or over stretch the teres minor during my day as that's were the issue was. At work (driving a van and walking dogs)
> 
> Yeah just a 12 week cycle with proper support and cardio, I'll buy a decent home BP monitor and note it plus I'm no liner taking any class a as it gave me a fright tbh.
> 
> I usually does steady state cardio so will add some hiit
> 
> I'll get bloods a ouole of months afte my cycle when on trt.
> 
> Appreciate the response. Thank you.


 No problem, aim for a 250-500 calorie surplus while you bulk.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Welcome back @ElChapo
> 
> I have been using 75iu of HMG mon to Fri along side 500iu HCG e2 days for the past 7 weeks now.
> 
> I had a blood test for FSH done 24 hours following one of the 75iu HMG shots. It's came back as 3.78 mIu/ML.
> 
> I used a home sperm analysis kit (http://www.yospermtest.com) to test my sperm for number of motile sperm per ML and it came back above the 6million motile sperm per ML (albeit in the low normal range) which is pretty good I think as at time of testing I was mid way through the 3 month mark it takes for the testes to produce a sperm cell.
> 
> My question is, would it be benifical for the next few weeks to bump the HMG dose to maybe achieve a higher FSH blood concentration?
> 
> I know achieving a to high FSH level (based of research) can have an averse affect on sperm production however would maintaining an average FSH level to say 6 or 7 mIu/ML be more productive for sperm production than my levels tested as per above?


 Yep, i was going to say, 150 iu is what i usually recommend. That should bring you up to 6 or 7 . You are getting good results so far. Thanks for sharing this data with us.


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> NPP being a 19nors too, would the E2 reading be affected on a ECLIA test same as Tren would ?
> 
> Cheers mate.


 I believe so but haven't tested myself, Nandrolone and trenbolone have cross-reactivity with receptors other than Androgen receptor. Trenbolone is picked up as E2 for sure though.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Do you find that more benifical than say 20mg the days you were going to have sex?


 The lower, steady state level leads to less side effects and you are always ready for rock hard erections. Tadalafil has cardiovascular benefits, it helps keep the blood vessels stretchy and elastic. There are some mice studies where it even reversed arterial damage.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Yep, i was going to say, 150 iu is what i usually recommend. That should bring you up to 6 or 7 . You are getting good results so far. Thanks for sharing this data with us.


 Do you mean 150iu Monday to Friday? As I have been taking 75iu Monday to Friday and achieved the 3.78.

Most studies suggest the protocol as either 75iu or 150 ui 3 times per week. The former in my oppinion being to low.

Also am I right to say that even with HMG, going overboard with FSH will in fact have an adverse impact on sperm production?

FYI I'll be getting more bloods so I'll keep you updated


----------



## Pancake'

Is a stronger muscle _always _a bigger muscle? I find when I go heavy squatting below 6 reps, it's inferior for overall leg development?

I've been stronger, but my legs are bigger and much more refined by not going so heavy anymore. Concentrating on muscle failure, ultra high reps, blood into muscle etc.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Do you mean 150iu Monday to Friday? As I have been taking 75iu Monday to Friday and achieved the 3.78.
> 
> Most studies suggest the protocol as either 75iu or 150 ui 3 times per week. The former in my oppinion being to low.
> 
> Also am I right to say that even with HMG, going overboard with FSH will in fact have an adverse impact on sperm production?
> 
> FYI I'll be getting more bloods so I'll keep you updated


 I didnt read that right, i thought you were doing 75 mcg total. You could double that, yes.

Don't worry about going overboard with FSH. You will be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Is a stronger muscle _always _a bigger muscle? I find when I go heavy squatting below 6 reps, it's inferior for overall leg development?
> 
> I've been stronger, but my legs are bigger and much more refined by not going so heavy anymore. Concentrating on muscle failure, ultra high reps, blood into muscle etc.


 No, i always recommend both; getting strong and doing high rep/high volume work. You get the best of both worlds. Both stimulate muscle growth and have their own benefits.

The greatest physiques of all time were built with a core of powerlifting style training. Arnold, Franco, Dorian and Ronnie coleman to name a few. Even Ulysses if you are into that development.

You can get big with high volume, diet and AAS only, but for best results, you also want to get strong.

Besides all that, being strong is fun and functional. When i say get strong, i dont mean throw on 4 plates on the bench and try to squeeze out some sloppy death reps. I mean slowly add weight little by little and before you know it, you are the strongest guy in the gym and bigger.


----------



## Tricky

Pancake' said:


> Is a stronger muscle _always _a bigger muscle? I find when I go heavy squatting below 6 reps, it's inferior for overall leg development?
> 
> I've been stronger, but my legs are bigger and much more refined by not going so heavy anymore. Concentrating on muscle failure, ultra high reps, blood into muscle etc.


 I would definitely say no in my experience. I can rep 140kg on the bench but yet barely look like I train.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Besides all that, being strong is fun and functional. When i say get strong, i dont mean throw on 4 plates on the bench and try to squeeze out some sloppy death reps. I mean slowly add weight little by little and before you know it, you are the strongest guy in the gym and bigger.


 Yeah don't get me wrong, I place emphasis on strength, I don't just have physique goals. just leg training, I had over a double bw squat and they didn't grow as much until volume. I agree in mixing both. Old timers just always preached 5x5 and squatting heavy in low rep ranges. I got stronger, with not much to show for it. Thanks.


----------



## Pancake'

Tricky said:


> I would definitely say no in my experience. I can rep 140kg on the bench but yet barely look like I train.


 Bench is directly correlated with bodyweight. So you could look untrained, but you may of been around 90-100kg in bw. funny because my chest, shoulders, triceps was all developed even back when benching 80kg.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Yeah don't get me wrong, I place emphasis on strength, I don't just have physique goals. just leg training, I had over a double bw squat and they didn't grow as much until volume. I agree in mixing both. Old timers just always preached 5x5 and squatting heavy in low rep ranges. I got stronger, with not much to show for it. Thanks.


 Yeah, lower reps alone will not build lots of mass for most people.


----------



## Tricky

Pancake' said:


> Bench is directly correlated with bodyweight. So you could look untrained, but you may of been around 90-100kg in bw. funny because my chest, shoulders, triceps was all developed even back when benching 80kg.


 Yea was about 84kg at 6ft


----------



## stewedw

This will sound like a daft question.

Pros and/or cons of donating blood when on cycle?

If you donate on a Sunday after being on cycle for a few weeks then I assume that your blood has an active amount of gear in it? Does this significantly effect the levels in your blood?

Any reason not to donate (Ive done it twice and called the next day to have the blood disposed of by saying I've had a virus so it never reaches anyone)

If the blood was used, would it be harmful?

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> This will sound like a daft question.
> 
> Pros and/or cons of donating blood when on cycle?
> 
> If you donate on a Sunday after being on cycle for a few weeks then I assume that your blood has an active amount of gear in it? Does this significantly effect the levels in your blood?
> 
> Any reason not to donate (Ive done it twice and called the next day to have the blood disposed of by saying I've had a virus so it never reaches anyone)
> 
> If the blood was used, would it be harmful?
> 
> Cheers.


 No, it will have no effect on your serum levels at all. Donate just enough to stay at / or under the max hematocrit level of 51%.

You want have a good level of hematocrit/hemoglobin for keeping the blood and muscles oxygenated. Donating too often will make you anemic.

The blood is completely safe for recipients as long as you don't have any infectious diseases (hepatitis/HIV) and practice sterile technique with pinning ( not reusing or sharing needles).


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo

It has recently come to my attention, that many years ago my uncle died from cardiac arrest due to the underlaying condition HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)

At the moment the welsh heart foundation (or maybe the nhs, i cant remember) are offering all family members that had a relative that had HCM free testing. Would it be worth me having the test, as theyre saying theres 50% chance of other family members having the condition, or as he was only my uncle will it only apply to his children? And as far as im aware my grandfather never had the HCM.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> I didnt read that right, i thought you were doing 75 mcg total. You could double that, yes.
> 
> Don't worry about going overboard with FSH. You will be fine.


 Ill be getting a blood test tomorrow for FSH again so ill let you know the levels again 24 hrs post last 150IU HMG shot.

So does FSH simply act as a signal to tell the sertoli cells in the testis to start producing sperm? do the sertoli cells do anything with this FSH that is circulating in the blood or is it as i said before just a signal that once they sertoli cells detect FSH in the blood they then just "switch on" spermatogenesis.

Same question as above as with HCG (LH) in that it stimulates the leydig cells to start producing intra-testicular testosterone production (despite synthetic testosterone also circulating in the blood).


----------



## MarkyMark

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> It has recently come to my attention, that many years ago my uncle died from cardiac arrest due to the underlaying condition HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)
> 
> At the moment the welsh heart foundation (or maybe the nhs, i cant remember) are offering all family members that had a relative that had HCM free testing. Would it be worth me having the test, as theyre saying theres 50% chance of other family members having the condition, or as he was only my uncle will it only apply to his children? And as far as im aware my grandfather never had the HCM.


 From what you have said i would definitive have the test under the NHS done as its free and its better the devil you know. It will be a good peace of mind and its better you catch any issues (if any) now rather than waiting years down the line when/if you experience any symptoms relating to this when in actual fact it could be to late.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> It has recently come to my attention, that many years ago my uncle died from cardiac arrest due to the underlaying condition HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)
> 
> At the moment the welsh heart foundation (or maybe the nhs, i cant remember) are offering all family members that had a relative that had HCM free testing. Would it be worth me having the test, as theyre saying theres 50% chance of other family members having the condition, or as he was only my uncle will it only apply to his children? And as far as im aware my grandfather never had the HCM.


 Go for it. With a family history , it's even more important to stay regular with the cardiovascular training to keep your heart strong and your arteries supple.

An uncle is a close enough relative for this to be possible.


----------



## bornagod

MarkyMark said:


> From what you have said i would definitive have the test under the NHS done as its free and its better the devil you know. It will be a good peace of mind and its better you catch any issues (if any) now rather than waiting years down the line when/if you experience any symptoms relating to this when in actual fact it could be to late.





ElChapo said:


> Go for it. With a family history , it's even more important to stay regular with the cardiovascular training to keep your heart strong and your arteries supple.
> 
> An uncle is a close enough relative for this to be possible.


 Exactly my thinking thanks chaps. Ill get on to the my gp 1st thing in the morning


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo

1- On a high carb bulk It's often advised by many top trainers these days to keep carbs to the peri-workout period to maintain a level of insulin sensitivity..... what are your thoughts on this, necessary or is it ok to have carbs spread across all meals?

2- How would you split macros (roughly) for a 210lb offseason bodybuilder at 13% bf on 4,500kcal?

Thanks!


----------



## Endomorph84

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1- On a high carb bulk It's often advised by many top trainers these days to keep carbs to the peri-workout period to maintain a level of insulin sensitivity..... what are your thoughts on this, necessary or is it ok to have carbs spread across all meals?
> 
> 2- How would you split macros (roughly) for a 210lb offseason bodybuilder at 13% bf on 4,500kcal?
> 
> Thanks!


 Not answering ElChapos question mate or challenging you, its just that I've been thinking about this a lot recently myself and been looking into it. Only because peri-workout seems to be becoming more and more common (im not saying people don't or have not ever done it).

I have always believed its how you fuel yourself in the 24 hour approach before your next training window. To me it makes sense to split your macros evenly as poss and have the biggest meal of the day as one of the last meals of the day.

Its common belief that you should eat before you train, but the science behind this is that it takes 5-6 hours to fully digest/ process/ metabolise a meal in order for those nutrients to be used for fuel - in turn blows the peri-workout theory out the window for me.

IMO sipping EAAs and a very fast digesting carb pre/ intra probably will have more benefits than the peri theory alone as the EAAs and carbs will be pushed into the muscles equally as quick whether you eat before or not.

Lastly, studies show that the "pre workout" window is a myth. Meta analysis shows that eating a balanced meal post workout up to 4 hours will have the same results as a PWO meal and or shake.

It could be person dependant, I really don't know. I train am and have a sedentary job.

Will be interesting to hear your, ElChapos and anybody else's thoughts.


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1- On a high carb bulk It's often advised by many top trainers these days to keep carbs to the peri-workout period to maintain a level of insulin sensitivity..... what are your thoughts on this, necessary or is it ok to have carbs spread across all meals?
> 
> 2- How would you split macros (roughly) for a 210lb offseason bodybuilder at 13% bf on 4,500kcal?
> 
> Thanks!


 1- It's not something to put too much thought into, although i like to hit a carb heavy, high-glycemic meal post-workout while the body is primed to absorbed carbs/protein. (A couple of bowls of sweet cereals with skim milk) .

You can spread your carbs around meals, people are always pushing OCD bullshit that just gets in the way of the fundamentals we need to focus on ; caloric surplus/deficit, progressive overload, and rest.

2- I always recommend high carb, moderate protein, lower fat for bulking/cutting. Carbs are the main fuel source for muscle function AND growth. High carb will keep your muscles full and strong, and your metabolism humming along. Keeping fat low during a bulk gives you a better chance of staying lean as it's less efficient for the body to store extra calories as adipose tissue when it has to break carbs/protein down first and then convert it to fat. In a surplus, excess fat will be directly stored.

Protein requirements are much lower during bulking. You will do fine on .8 grams per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight) and 1 gram per lbs of lean body mass on a cut. High carb will keep your leptin levels and T3 levels high.

*Keto/low carb diet = Flat muscles, **s**t mood/increased stress levels, slower metabolism, decreased muscle strength and endurance. *


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Not answering ElChapos question mate or challenging you, its just that I've been thinking about this a lot recently myself and been looking into it. Only because peri-workout seems to be becoming more and more common (im not saying people don't or have not ever done it).
> 
> I have always believed its how you fuel yourself in the 24 hour approach before your next training window. To me it makes sense to split your macros evenly as poss and have the biggest meal of the day as one of the last meals of the day.
> 
> Its common belief that you should eat before you train, but the science behind this is that it takes 5-6 hours to fully digest/ process/ metabolise a meal in order for those nutrients to be used for fuel - in turn blows the peri-workout theory out the window for me.
> 
> IMO sipping EAAs and a very fast digesting carb pre/ intra probably will have more benefits than the peri theory alone as the EAAs and carbs will be pushed into the muscles equally as quick whether you eat before or not.
> 
> Lastly, studies show that the "pre workout" window is a myth. Meta analysis shows that eating a balanced meal post workout up to 4 hours will have the same results as a PWO meal and or shake.
> 
> It could be person dependant, I really don't know. I train am and have a sedentary job.
> 
> Will be interesting to hear your, ElChapos and anybody else's thoughts.


 Overall, i agree. Just focus on hitting your macros like protein and calories throught the day. Don't stress about meal timing, although i recommend a solid protein/carb meal immediately post-workout ( my fav is cereal with milk ).

If you are training fasted, take 15 grams of BCAA or EAA. Intra-workout nutrition is vastly overrated and will provide minimal benefit.

I like fasting in the mornings during cuts/maintenance with some black coffee (makes it easier to stay in a deficit), but eating a solid breakfast during bulk (makes it easier to hit calories)


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think of this pre workout ingredient profile?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think of this pre workout ingredient profile?
> 
> View attachment 166269


 It's always better to just buy the stuff you want in bulk. Like the creatine/caffeine/ beta-alanine. A lot of the rest is just fluff.

I'm not one for tons of supplements, they are mostly a waste of money.


----------



## pma111

Can high estrogen cause issues with blood sugar / insulin resistance and if so by what mechanism.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo Thoughts on building muscle in a caloric deficit? Have been reading a lot about this and the possibility of it when anabolics are being used. I remember hearing Jay Cutler saying this is easy to make happen with correct training, nutrition and supplementation. People assume that net weight loss means purely loss of tissue, and ignore the fact that protein synthesis and breakdown of adipose tissue are two separate processes. Do you think it's possible that muscle tissue can be synthesised at the same time as fat is being used for energy. Obviously a caloric surplus over time would be more efficient but am I not correct in believing that the body can be in a surplus or deficit at different stages throughout the day?

your thoughts on this please, thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Can high estrogen cause issues with blood sugar / insulin resistance and if so by what mechanism.


 Not to a degree significant enough to have any effect on blood sugar. Testosterone supplementation has been shown to improve diabetics glycemic control. Estrogen can actually have a positive effect on insulin action.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo Thoughts on building muscle in a caloric deficit? Have been reading a lot about this and the possibility of it when anabolics are being used. I remember hearing Jay Cutler saying this is easy to make happen with correct training, nutrition and supplementation. People assume that net weight loss means purely loss of tissue, and ignore the fact that protein synthesis and breakdown of adipose tissue are two separate processes. Do you think it's possible that muscle tissue can be synthesised at the same time as fat is being used for energy. Obviously a caloric surplus over time would be more efficient but am I not correct in believing that the body can be in a surplus or deficit at different stages throughout the day?
> 
> your thoughts on this please, thanks.


 It's possible and happens when someone is novice-intermediate. I've seen it myself, it's not uncommon when training and nutrition is on point.

It's definitely possible, especially with AAS/GH/Insulin in the mix. Like you said, it's more efficient to be in a caloric surplus. If you want to stay lean, keep surplus small. 250 calories or 10% surplus and low fat diet.


----------



## Devil

Period off lifting that will be detrimental to muscle loss and/or fat

Took 2 weeks off due to work loads, along with coming off from 125m test 300mg tren to just 125mg test (that will play a role I'm sure)

But I literally feel like I have a different physique haha. Just reduced glycogen, bit of water etc?. Diet has probably been around maintenance.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Period off lifting that will be detrimental to muscle loss and/or fat
> 
> Took 2 weeks off due to work loads, along with coming off from 125m test 300mg tren to just 125mg test (that will play a role I'm sure)
> 
> But I literally feel like I have a different physique haha. Just reduced glycogen, bit of water etc?. Diet has probably been around maintenance.


 It takes 3-4 weeks without training to start losing muscle and strength, and that's without AAS.

You will start looking flatter after 2 weeks, but that's just glycogen/sarcoplasm/pump. Don't sweat it. People who train in the higher rep ranges are more sensitive to this effect due to the pump they get from their workouts.

You can maintain your muscle and strength by hitting any body part only once a week with enough intensity.


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

Sure you have answered this question in the thread somewhere but I can't find it.

What's the best type of cardio for heart health. How long and at what rate should the heart be kept at.

I only currently get to train 3 days a week. Would you do a full body Mon,wed,Fri or PPL


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on the addition of primobolan during a cruise (*not* TRT as some people seem to get confused with one another) in between blasts whilst cutting

i find high dose / blasts for cutting in those that arnt already very lean to be a waste of gear and unnecessary strain on blood markers.

given how mild primo is and for someone not that lean do you think it would be an acceptable addition in between blasts to help retain muscle without hammering bloods

if yes what kind of dosing would you go for alongside say a 250mg weekly dose of test?


----------



## Super -ingh

ElChapo said:


> My recommended approach is keeping doses the same from bulk to cut to be on the safe side, maximize the changes of retaining most of your muscle/strength and keeping it simple, but you can get away with 50% less for cutting once the muscle is built.
> 
> Try 300 mg test prop and oral winstrol at 50 mg daily. Run for 12 weeks bulk or cut. If you care about fertility or ever plan on PCT, run HCG from start to finish. Test only is nice enough, especially prop, but try the winstrol with it and you won't be sorry.
> 
> Lipids will take a hit even from moderate dose testosterone, the temporary effect will not negatively affect your health. It takes many years of impaired lipid profile to have a negative effect on your cardiovascular health.


 fantastic thank you, (as opposed to prop) would you recommend test e weekly at 300mg or slightly higher due to ester? I really hate pinning tbh - every 5 days is my limit.

very much appreciated, nice to see you back


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Sure you have answered this question in the thread somewhere but I can't find it.
> 
> What's the best type of cardio for heart health. How long and at what rate should the heart be kept at.
> 
> I only currently get to train 3 days a week. Would you do a full body Mon,wed,Fri or PPL


 Low-moderate intensity like a 5 mph jog. 20-30 minutes 3-7 days a week is my go-to but anything that gets your heart working and you can stay consistent with is fine.

HIIT is very popular and time efficient but it can be very taxing on the body and interfere with recovery in your other lifts.

You wanna hit each body part at least once a week, 2-3 times per week for lagging parts/smaller muscle groups.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on the addition of primobolan during a cruise (*not* TRT as some people seem to get confused with one another) in between blasts whilst cutting
> 
> i find high dose / blasts for cutting in those that arnt already very lean to be a waste of gear and unnecessary strain on blood markers.
> 
> given how mild primo is and for someone not that lean do you think it would be an acceptable addition in between blasts to help retain muscle without hammering bloods
> 
> if yes what kind of dosing would you go for alongside say a 250mg weekly dose of test?


 250/300 mg should already be doing the job for most people. If you wanna mix it, i would go 100 or 150 mg of each.

Any higher than 300 mg and it's not a cruise any more. AAS over 300 mg will start to have adverse effects on the body.

If you have a s**t ton of mass and your crusing on 500 mg, i would add 250 mg primo to 250 test but most people dont need that much. Maintaining muscle is 90% training and diet.


----------



## ElChapo

Super -ingh said:


> fantastic thank you, (as opposed to prop) would you recommend test e weekly at 300mg or slightly higher due to ester? I really hate pinning tbh - every 5 days is my limit.
> 
> very much appreciated, nice to see you back


 You will get excellent results with test prop split into twice a week injections.

If you wanna run an enathate cycle, i would recommend 500-600 mg for most people but it depends on your goals.


----------



## MarkyMark

MarkyMark said:


> From what you have said i would definitive have the test under the NHS done as its free and its better the devil you know. It will be a good peace of mind and its better you catch any issues (if any) now rather than waiting years down the line when/if you experience any symptoms relating to this when in actual fact it could be to late.


 Hi @ElChapo

I had bloods done again today and to confirm FSH was *4.4mIU/ML*

also on that note there are some issues of concern with my blood results as per below (if you can advise).

*Calcium* - result is slightly over range @ *2.54* (range 2.15 to 2.50) - this has been slightly raised for some months no going by previous tests. is this something to worry about i appreciate its only a little high but none the less i want to err on the side of caution.

*Uric Acid*- result is low @ *185 *(range 202 - 416) first time this has happened - usually in the mid 200s

*C-reactive protein* - first time this has showed up on my panel (i think they recently added it to the full biochemistry test i get). it was *9.4* and range should be under 5. is this anything to worry about or is it much like CK which is elevated by working from muscle break down after stressed in the gym? Research suggest excessive CRP can be due to inflammation in the heart!


----------



## Jonk891

Is there any all in one on cycle support supplements you would recommend. I was looking at the rich piana one but the form of magnesium is a stimulating form and I have trouble sleeping as it is. Also looking for one without tudca


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> 250/300 mg should already be doing the job for most people. If you wanna mix it, i would go 100 or 150 mg of each.
> 
> Any higher than 300 mg and it's not a cruise any more. AAS over 300 mg will start to have adverse effects on the body.
> 
> If you have a s**t ton of mass and your crusing on 500 mg, i would add 250 mg primo to 250 test but most people dont need that much. Maintaining muscle is 90% training and diet.


 Guess I'm just getting dropping 2lb per week and strength taking a dive despite strict diet and strength training

Nature of the beast I suppose


----------



## Sasnak

@ElChapo

I had a hormone panel done, all normal except prolactin was high at 396mU/L Natural lifter.

Is it normal for some men to have these levels (I'm 45) given that few probably ever get tested.

Should it be further investigated or treated?

Many Thanks.


----------



## swole troll

Jonk891 said:


> Is there any all in one on cycle support supplements you would recommend. I was looking at the rich piana one but the form of magnesium is a stimulating form and I have trouble sleeping as it is. Also looking for one without tudca


 Strom sports support max is the best there is

Every ingredient has its place and is dosed effectively

https://www.stromsports.com/collections/featured/products/strom-presents-supportmax-preorder-only-due-october


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Guess I'm just getting dropping 2lb per week and strength taking a dive despite strict diet and strength training
> 
> Nature of the beast I suppose


 Yep, most of the time we're not gonna maintain 100% of our strength and mass on a cruise once you go past your natural limitations. That's why the really big boys gotta cruise on +500 mg. If you're still within the natural-ish limitations, 300 mg with training and diet will do the trick for strength and mass.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I had bloods done again today and to confirm FSH was *4.4mIU/ML*
> 
> also on that note there are some issues of concern with my blood results as per below (if you can advise).
> 
> *Calcium* - result is slightly over range @ *2.54* (range 2.15 to 2.50) - this has been slightly raised for some months no going by previous tests. is this something to worry about i appreciate its only a little high but none the less i want to err on the side of caution.
> 
> *Uric Acid*- result is low @ *185 *(range 202 - 416) first time this has happened - usually in the mid 200s
> 
> *C-reactive protein* - first time this has showed up on my panel (i think they recently added it to the full biochemistry test i get). it was *9.4* and range should be under 5. is this anything to worry about or is it much like CK which is elevated by working from muscle break down after stressed in the gym? Research suggest excessive CRP can be due to inflammation in the heart!


 Do you take any thyroid hormone. Have you ever tested your GFR *kidneys*? I've seen slight calcium elevations in labwork with no pathology behind them. I'm sure you're fine.

Low uric acid isn't a problem either, don't sweat it.

Unless you're overtraining, you might be fighting off some infection. Usually exercise lower CRP, but tissue injury can increase. People with heart disease/atherosclerosis tend to have higher levels than normal. It could likely be like your CK level and be from muscle tissue damage. You could always get some imaging done to check plaque in your arteries and heart imaging just to be safe. Make sure you do cardio as it can have a significant positive effect on inflammation levels in the body ( in moderation)

You can also take 2 weeks off from training and re-test CRP and CK. Training breaks are very good for your body, joints, and mind and you will not lose strength or muscle from a 2 week break.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Is there any all in one on cycle support supplements you would recommend. I was looking at the rich piana one but the form of magnesium is a stimulating form and I have trouble sleeping as it is. Also looking for one without tudca


 No, buy the stuff you need separately and in bulk.

TUDCA/NAC for orals for liver support, cialis/ralox/AI will cover 90% of anyone's needs.

Cialis is good for your blood vessels.

Most supplements are BS marketing. Most of them cost more than a vial of AAS, that should tell you all you need to know.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I had a hormone panel done, all normal except prolactin was high at 396mU/L Natural lifter.
> 
> Is it normal for some men to have these levels (I'm 45) given that few probably ever get tested.
> 
> Should it be further investigated or treated?
> 
> Many Thanks.


 Did you have sex or masturbate prior to the labwork. If not, you can get yourself tested for a prolactinoma, they are not that uncommon.

Another cause can be anti-psychotic and other psych meds.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Do you take any thyroid hormone. Have you ever tested your GFR *kidneys*? I've seen slight calcium elevations in labwork with no pathology behind them. I'm sure you're fine.
> 
> Low uric acid isn't a problem either, don't sweat it.
> 
> Unless you're overtraining, you might be fighting off some infection. Usually exercise lower CRP, but tissue injury can increase. People with heart disease/atherosclerosis tend to have higher levels than normal. It could likely be like your CK level and be from muscle tissue damage. You could always get some imaging done to check plaque in your arteries and heart imaging just to be safe. Make sure you do cardio as it can have a significant positive effect on inflammation levels in the body ( in moderation)
> 
> You can also take 2 weeks off from training and re-test CRP and CK. Training breaks are very good for your body, joints, and mind and you will not lose strength or muscle from a 2 week break.


 Don't use any thyroid hormone - GFR is around 75

Im not over training for sure - I had at the start of the year and they found nothing of concern but i am planning on having anther done soon. Its rather worrying to say the least, as i dont have an infection.

on another note, i am undergoing electrolysis - so this does inflame the skin a little but im going to say this is not related.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> No, buy the stuff you need separately and in bulk.
> 
> TUDCA/NAC for orals for liver support, cialis/ralox/AI will cover 90% of anyone's needs.
> 
> Cialis is good for your blood vessels.
> 
> Most supplements are BS marketing. Most of them cost more than a vial of AAS, that should tell you all you need to know.


 I have tudca, Nac and Cialis. Not using the tudca as I ain't using orals but still use Nac when on cycle at 1000mg along with 5mg Cialis.

You don't think any other ones are worth adding for support for the kidneys, prostate, heart and lipids ?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Don't use any thyroid hormone - GFR is around 75
> 
> Im not over training for sure - I had at the start of the year and they found nothing of concern but i am planning on having anther done soon. Its rather worrying to say the least, as i dont have an infection.
> 
> on another note, i am undergoing electrolysis - so this does inflame the skin a little but im going to say this is not related.


 Are you doing regular cardiovascular exercise?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I have tudca, Nac and Cialis. Not using the tudca as I ain't using orals but still use Nac when on cycle at 1000mg along with 5mg Cialis.
> 
> You don't think any other ones are worth adding for support for the kidneys, prostate, heart and lipids ?


 You could do niacin+red yeast rice for lipids, the cialis will also support the circulatory system.

There's nothing you can really do for the kidneys.

No supplement will do much for the prostate when you are on AAS. Saw palmetto/etc is too mild to offset the androgenicity off steroids. It wouldn't be a bad addition to a stack though.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Are you doing regular cardiovascular exercise?


 used to do a 3 min warm up on cross trainer but instead changed this time for starting band exercises and bar only reps to get joints "lubricated".

In other words NO...

On another note is blood pressure a good marker on whether there are any heart issues or is it quite useless and that BP may only be affected during an attack?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> used to do a 3 min warm up on cross trainer but instead changed this time for starting band exercises and bar only reps to get joints "lubricated".
> 
> In other words NO...


 Cardio exercise will be the most effect cardiovascular supplement period. No vitamin/herb comes close to the health benefits and protection against disease.

I would start a regimen that you can enjoy. Either find an activity like boxing/mma/swimming that you enjoy, or make an easy to follow, low stress routine like the one i do. I like doing 20-30 mins jog on the treadmill at 5 mph while listening to music. It's relaxing and does not interfere with my workouts. I can do it daily, if i got any faster i find myself subconsciously avoiding the workout, so i make sure i stay at 5 mph and only 20-30 minutes. If you train too intensely, you won't stick to it. It doesn't take a lot to get the benefits.

If you want, you can do a heart study and check for calcium deposits/plaque in your arteries, EKG/MRI, etc. Heart disease is a systemic inflammatory disease with low level of inflammation that you might see in your example of lab work. It's worth a look at, but please add the cardio, you won't regret it now and when you're 70 years old and still running around, strong, spry and healthy.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Cardio exercise will be the most effect cardiovascular supplement period. No vitamin/herb comes close to the health benefits and protection against disease.
> 
> I would start a regimen that you can enjoy. Either find an activity like boxing/mma/swimming that you enjoy, or make an easy to follow, low stress routine like the one i do. I like doing 20-30 mins jog on the treadmill at 5 mph while listening to music. It's relaxing and does not interfere with my workouts. I can do it daily, if i got any faster i find myself subconsciously avoiding the workout, so i make sure i stay at 5 mph and only 20-30 minutes. If you train too intensely, you won't stick to it. It doesn't take a lot to get the benefits.
> 
> If you want, you can do a heart study and check for calcium deposits/plaque in your arteries, EKG/MRI, etc. Heart disease is a systemic inflammatory disease with low level of inflammation that you might see in your example of lab work. It's worth a look at, but please add the cardio, you won't regret it now and when you're 70 years old and still running around, strong, spry and healthy.


 Yes i agree and i will! to be honest i think it will be maybe 20 mins on the cross trainer per week to start at least.

You might have missed my edit before... is blood pressure a good marker of heart issues if someone is fit or is it usually only apparent once an attach occurs?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Yes i agree and i will! to be honest i think it will be maybe 20 mins on the cross trainer per week to start at least.
> 
> You might have missed my edit before... is blood pressure a good marker of heart issues if someone is fit or is it usually only apparent once an attach occurs?


 That's more than enough. i actually do about 20 mins jogging and walk the rest for the full 30 minutes. You're heart rate doesn't have to be super high. 130 bpm is enough. Just be consistent.

No, blood pressure is only one of the many risk factors for heart disease. You can have perfect blood pressure and heart rate and still have heart disease or an increased risk. It's not that simple. High BP increases the risk of plaque development and can lead to vision problems, chronic kidney failure, and elevated risk of stroke/heart attack.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> That's more than enough. i actually do about 20 mins jogging and walk the rest for the full 30 minutes. You're heart rate doesn't have to be super high. 130 bpm is enough. Just be consistent.
> 
> No, blood pressure is only one of the many risk factors for heart disease. You can have perfect blood pressure and heart rate and still have heart disease or an increased risk. It's not that simple. High BP increases the risk of plaque development and can lead to vision problems, chronic kidney failure, and elevated risk of stroke/heart attack.


 Thanks for the explanation its informative.

BTW the CRP value i have appears to be very high as typically most other will have between 1 and 2... rather worrying!


----------



## Super -ingh

ElChapo said:


> You will get excellent results with test prop split into twice a week injections.
> 
> If you wanna run an enathate cycle, i would recommend 500-600 mg for most people but it depends on your goals.


 interesting you say twice a week for prop - I been watching podcasts on how pinning everyday is supposedly better as it stabilizes blood levels and keep the dose constant - is that a myth then?

how many days apart from injections is assuming train between mon-fri


----------



## CHRIS GW

I'm sure this is person dependant to an extent and you probably can't give a definitive answer, but I'll ask anyway...

Could the recommended dose of TUDCA, be enough to keep liver values in range or at least from rising too far above range, whilst using Dianabol or Anadrol, say at the normal dose of 40mg/50mg per day?


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> Did you have sex or masturbate prior to the labwork. If not, you can get yourself tested for a prolactinoma, they are not that uncommon.
> 
> Another cause can be anti-psychotic and other psych meds.


 No sex before. I have no symptoms. I take Chlorpheniramine Maleate daily in the summer (when I had the bloods done) for general allergies and some studies have suggested it (iirc) has ssri properties so it may be that.


----------



## pma111

If someone did have arterial plaque can it be reversed/disolved & if so how... or is the best you can do prevent it getting worse. I read vit c & lysine may help? Any truth?


----------



## stewedw

pma111 said:


> If someone did have arterial plaque can it be reversed/disolved & if so how... or is the best you can do prevent it getting worse. I read vit c & lysine may help? Any truth?


 Fem the NHS website.

Treatments for atherosclerosis

There aren't currently any treatments that can reverse atherosclerosis, but the healthy lifestyle changes suggested above may help stop it getting worse.

Sometimes additional treatment to reduce the risk of problems like heart attacks and strokes may also be recommended, such as:

statins for high cholesterol - read more about treating high cholesterol

medicines for high blood pressure - read more about treating high blood pressure

medicines to reduce the risk of blood clots - such as low-dose aspirin or clopidogrel

dietary changes and medication for diabetes - read more about treating type 1 diabetes and treating type 2 diabetes

a procedure to widen or bypass an affected artery - such as a coronary angioplasty, a coronary artery bypass graft, or a carotid endarterectomy

Click on the links above for more information about what these treatments involve.


----------



## ElChapo

Super -ingh said:


> interesting you say twice a week for prop - I been watching podcasts on how pinning everyday is supposedly better as it stabilizes blood levels and keep the dose constant - is that a myth then?
> 
> how many days apart from injections is assuming train between mon-fri


 You won't notice a difference in results, mood, energy, etc. It's not as simple as serum levels. Gene expression is the major force behind AAS effects. This is why it takes time to "kick in". After your first injection, your levels are already supraphysiological, so why don't you feel it? Gene expression.

I do Monday/Thursday for Test prop.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> I'm sure this is person dependant to an extent and you probably can't give a definitive answer, but I'll ask anyway...
> 
> Could the recommended dose of TUDCA, be enough to keep liver values in range or at least from rising too far above range, whilst using Dianabol or Anadrol, say at the normal dose of 40mg/50mg per day?


 250-500 mg will do the job. Even if enzymes are elevated, it's still doing it's job by keeping liver bile flow healthy.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> No sex before. I have no symptoms. I take Chlorpheniramine Maleate daily in the summer (when I had the bloods done) for general allergies and some studies have suggested it (iirc) has ssri properties so it may be that.


 Idk, i would get it checked just in case.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> If someone did have arterial plaque can it be reversed/disolved & if so how... or is the best you can do prevent it getting worse. I read vit c & lysine may help? Any truth?


 Generally, it's non-reversible. There is surgery where they remove the plaque (endarterectomy). It looks like a cheesy wax like substance.

Cardiovascular exercise and lifestyle will "stabilize" the plaques, basically, making them much less likely to rupture/break off and cause stroke/heart attack.

Exercise also keeps the arteries flexible. Plaque/atherosclerosis makes the arteries hard and narrow, so they can't pump blood efficiently. This make circulation poor and makes the heart work harder. This is one of the physical causes of erectile dysfunction.

The best prevention is cardiovascular exercise, nothing comes close to it. There are some mice studies showing that cialis might can reverse arterial damage caused by diabetes, so it likely has a positive effect in humans.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Fem the NHS website.
> 
> Treatments for atherosclerosis
> 
> There aren't currently any treatments that can reverse atherosclerosis, but the healthy lifestyle changes suggested above may help stop it getting worse.
> 
> Sometimes additional treatment to reduce the risk of problems like heart attacks and strokes may also be recommended, such as:
> 
> statins for high cholesterol - read more about treating high cholesterol
> 
> medicines for high blood pressure - read more about treating high blood pressure
> 
> medicines to reduce the risk of blood clots - such as low-dose aspirin or clopidogrel
> 
> dietary changes and medication for diabetes - read more about treating type 1 diabetes and treating type 2 diabetes
> 
> a procedure to widen or bypass an affected artery - such as a coronary angioplasty, a coronary artery bypass graft, or a carotid endarterectomy
> 
> Click on the links above for more information about what these treatments involve.


 I'm not a fan of statins. They can cause muscle damage and other weird side effects. There are lifestyle changes that can have a strong impact on lipid levels and as long as HDL is at 60 or higher you're good to go. Red wine, fish oil, cardiovascular exercise are the main ones. Red yeast rice and Niacin.

I advocate for BP medicine if you have tried every lifestyle modification with no success and BP is chronically over 140/90. It only takes a little bit most of the time to pull it down to 120/70 or lower. I like the beta blockers like metoprolol, they also have a calming/anti-anxiety effect which is a bonus for many people.

You can virtually reverse diabetes if you are obese and get lean. I know a couple of people personally who have lost +50-100 lbs and no longer have any hyperglycemia/diabetes. You add exercise and build muscle and your body can usually regain a lot of insulin sensitivity. It doesn't always work, but metformin/januvia/glipizide are good meds and patient compliance is very high.

Aspirin is mild and not a bad supp/med, blood clots are unlikely if you are fit, healthy and active. High E2 and sedentary lifestyle is a common risk factor for bloodclot formation.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> That's more than enough. i actually do about 20 mins jogging and walk the rest for the full 30 minutes. You're heart rate doesn't have to be super high. 130 bpm is enough. Just be consistent.
> 
> No, blood pressure is only one of the many risk factors for heart disease. You can have perfect blood pressure and heart rate and still have heart disease or an increased risk. It's not that simple. High BP increases the risk of plaque development and can lead to vision problems, chronic kidney failure, and elevated risk of stroke/heart attack.


 So I have booked myself in for a echocardiogram for mid December (I do this once a year anyhow)

My cholesterol is very early out of range as I get bloods done every 4 to 6 weeks so I am confident I don't have any issues with plaque build up (also none reported in echo last year).

I know I sound like broken record so this will be the last post pertaining to this situation however - does PIP bring on inflamation?

as my last pin (Wednesday) was a little painful and I rushed to push in 3ml oil into my glutes. I am now hobbling about and the area is sore to the touch (no redness,heat and definitely no infection)

Blood test was carried out 48hrs after the pin.

Is there a chance that my CRP could be elevated from this if I need PIP does promote the body to inflame the "damaged" area.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> So I have booked myself in for a echocardiogram for mid December (I do this once a year anyhow)
> 
> My cholesterol is very early out of range as I get bloods done every 4 to 6 weeks so I am confident I don't have any issues with plaque build up (also none reported in echo last year).
> 
> I know I sound like broken record so this will be the last post pertaining to this situation however - does PIP bring on inflamation?
> 
> as my last pin (Wednesday) was a little painful and I rushed to push in 3ml oil into my glutes. I am now hobbling about and the area is sore to the touch (no redness,heat and definitely no infection)
> 
> Blood test was carried out 48hrs after the pin.
> 
> Is there a chance that my CRP could be elevated from this if I need PIP does promote the body to inflame the "damaged" area.


 Is that your first shot of the oil or was it just a bad injection? Ibuprofen and NSAIDs are the best medicine for PIP.

It's possible the CRP is from the PIP but i wouldn't know for sure. You can re-test later.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

I am on a cruise now. i think i am going to get bloods at the start of february (8 weeks) to see if it's ok to blast again. what things should i make sure i include on my blood test other than cholesterol and FBC? should I try to get an echo too?


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I am on a cruise now. i think i am going to get bloods at the start of february (8 weeks) to see if it's ok to blast again. what things should i make sure i include on my blood test other than cholesterol and FBC? should I try to get an echo too?


 Blood work won't really pick up any issues other than elevated hematocrit. The biggest risk from Chronic AAS use is development of heart disease and atherosclerosis. Lipids will be back to normal post-cycle 4-6 weeks in. Liver values too unless there is permanent damage. The real silent killer is arterial plaque formation and hardening of the arteries. You won't see this in labwork.

There's not much you are getting from lab work honestly.

Just be sensible with your cycle doses and length on, stay lean year round and always do cardio regularly.

Ideally, you build your dream physique and maintain that on a cruise dose.

Trying to get freaky and big will never be healthy but you can cycle all your life and still be okay for it (Arnold/Stallone are good examples) especially if you take care of your body.


----------



## pma111

Excuse my ignorance but theres been some useful tips on preventing heart issues that has gotten a little technical for me... is 'calcifacation' the same thing as 'arethosclerosis', 'arterial plaque formation' or 'hardening of the arteries' or are the 2 different issues/substances.


----------



## SoberHans

I'd really appreciate some advice about my first ever cutting cycle.

Really sensitive to any kind of stimulant so gonna run

Weeks 1-8 375mg tren ace per week

Weeks 1-10 250mg sustanon per week (have this already or would have used test prop)

Gonna aim for 500 calories below maintainence a day.

Currently at around 18 per cent body fat but wanna get to at least 15.

Is there anything else you recommend I can add to this and should I increase or lower the calories due to running tren?

Thanks in advance


----------



## stewedw

If you are only want to cut 3% bodyfat and giving yourself ten weeks to do so then you don't need a fancy stack if any gear at all mate.

I dropped 10% in 11 weeks (caliper tested and kept all the pics) so 3% will be a canter mate

What's your stats and cycle history?


----------



## Matt6210

stewedw said:


> If you are only want to cut 3% bodyfat and giving yourself ten weeks to do so then you don't need a fancy stack if any gear at all mate.
> 
> I dropped 10% in 11 weeks (caliper tested and kept all the pics) so 3% will be a canter mate
> 
> What's your stats and cycle history?


 Depends how much bf your already at if your 30% dropping to 20% would be easy as f**k but if your sub 12% I imagine dropping another 3% would be very hard.


----------



## stewedw

Matt6210 said:


> Depends how much bf your already at if your 30% dropping to 20% would be easy as f**k but if your sub 12% I imagine dropping another 3% would be very hard.


 He's dropped from 18 %. Hence the question of stats etc.

I was 22-12% in ten weeks. Next time round I was 15%-9%.

Second run at the lower bf percentage was easier for me as i knew what to do and what not to do, counted all the cals, stuck to the game plan and no head fks as I'd already shown it had worked. If I recall it was only four weeks the second cut and dropped 19lbs.


----------



## SoberHans

stewedw said:


> If you are only want to cut 3% bodyfat and giving yourself ten weeks to do so then you don't need a fancy stack if any gear at all mate.
> 
> I dropped 10% in 11 weeks (caliper tested and kept all the pics) so 3% will be a canter mate
> 
> What's your stats and cycle history?


 Done a few bulk cycles but this will be my first cutting one.

I'm 205 at minute

15% is the minimum I want, leaner would be better.

Was thinking about eating at maintenance and doing a recomp but would rather cut as much as possible then lean back after that.

Thanks for the reply


----------



## zariph

Wanna do 600mg test C a week for 12 weeks, but would like to kick start with test P, how would you set this up


----------



## stewedw

SoberHans said:


> Done a few bulk cycles but this will be my first cutting one.
> 
> I'm 205 at minute
> 
> 15% is the minimum I want, leaner would be better.
> 
> Was thinking about eating at maintenance and doing a recomp but would rather cut as much as possible then lean back after that.
> 
> Thanks for the reply


 From my experience cut and when you think you've hit what you want, add two weeks or so and make sure you're careful on th rebound. I fkd a couple of cuts up by stopping shirt or being stuck in two minds behind a cut/bulk/recomp. Stick to your guns and you'll e fine bud.


----------



## SoberHans

stewedw said:


> From my experience cut and when you think you've hit what you want, add two weeks or so and make sure you're careful on th rebound. I fkd a couple of cuts up by stopping shirt or being stuck in two minds behind a cut/bulk/recomp. Stick to your guns and you'll e fine bud.


 Nice one really appreciate it. Gonna go as lean as possible then decide what I wanna do from there.


----------



## Pancake'

Sex drive incredibly high, just a few hours post workout. any idea why this occur? I end up skipping meals having sex all evening/night/morning before work it's ridiculous.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Excuse my ignorance but theres been some useful tips on preventing heart issues that has gotten a little technical for me... is 'calcifacation' the same thing as 'arethosclerosis', 'arterial plaque formation' or 'hardening of the arteries' or are the 2 different issues/substances.


 Calcification = atherosclerosis = plaque formation. It's basically calcium+cholesterol substance that sticks to your arteries and clogs the circulation. This can lead to stroke, heart attack, blood clot, etc.

Hardening of the arteries usually happens together with calcification.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> I'd really appreciate some advice about my first ever cutting cycle.
> 
> Really sensitive to any kind of stimulant so gonna run
> 
> Weeks 1-8 375mg tren ace per week
> 
> Weeks 1-10 250mg sustanon per week (have this already or would have used test prop)
> 
> Gonna aim for 500 calories below maintainence a day.
> 
> Currently at around 18 per cent body fat but wanna get to at least 15.
> 
> Is there anything else you recommend I can add to this and should I increase or lower the calories due to running tren?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Never assume tren burns fat or increases your metabolism, it doesn't. Tren dries you out and pumps your muscles up, giving the illusion of fat loss.

500 calorie deficit = 1 lbs fat loss per week.

You can also do a 1,000 calorie deficit for 2 lbs fat loss per week or increase activity to hit this deficit.

No stimulants needed for cutting to even very low levels of body fat. I haven't used stims or drugs for cutting in almost 10 years. All it takes is caloric deficit and patience (that's the hard part).

You will reach 15% body fat in 7 weeks with a 500 calorie deficit, and 4 weeks with a 1000 calorie deficit.

My recommendation is extend the cycle and cut to 12 weeks total with a 500 calorie daily deficit. That will get you from 18-12% body fat. That's in the ideal range for health and aesthetics (8-12%).


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Done a few bulk cycles but this will be my first cutting one.
> 
> I'm 205 at minute
> 
> 15% is the minimum I want, leaner would be better.
> 
> Was thinking about eating at maintenance and doing a recomp but would rather cut as much as possible then lean back after that.
> 
> Thanks for the reply


 I would cut to 12% and then slow/lean bulk back to 15% and repeat or drop to 10% and back up until you have your goal physique. You will always look good as muscle separation and at least some abdominal definition is visible for most people at 15%. The body is also more insulin sensitive the lower the body fat, so muscle will respond better to training and food.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Wanna do 600mg test C a week for 12 weeks, but would like to kick start with test P, how would you set this up


 2-4 week test prop, then switch to test C. The test C will raise levels to almost max after the first two injections. The test prop activates the androgen genes faster. I believe it's because of the sharper spikes in serum levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Sex drive incredibly high, just a few hours post workout. any idea why this occur? I end up skipping meals having sex all evening/night/morning before work it's ridiculous.


 Could be the catecholamine release you get from training (andrenaline/noradrenaline/dopamine). I think this happens to a few people, so it's not super rare.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

calories from fibre? Just count them as usual carbs?

What do you make of all the non processed properly etc etc


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Never assume tren burns fat or increases your metabolism, it doesn't. Tren dries you out and pumps your muscles up, giving the illusion of fat loss.
> 
> 500 calorie deficit = 1 lbs fat loss per week.
> 
> You can also do a 1,000 calorie deficit for 2 lbs fat loss per week or increase activity to hit this deficit.
> 
> No stimulants needed for cutting to even very low levels of body fat. I haven't used stims or drugs for cutting in almost 10 years. All it takes is caloric deficit and patience (that's the hard part).
> 
> You will reach 15% body fat in 7 weeks with a 500 calorie deficit, and 4 weeks with a 1000 calorie deficit.
> 
> My recommendation is extend the cycle and cut to 12 weeks total with a 500 calorie daily deficit. That will get you from 18-12% body fat. That's in the ideal range for health and aesthetics (8-12%).


 Thanks for your help again, really appreciate it.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Calcification = atherosclerosis = plaque formation. It's basically calcium+cholesterol substance that sticks to your arteries and clogs the circulation. This can lead to stroke, heart attack, blood clot, etc.
> 
> Hardening of the arteries usually happens together with calcification.


 I'm guessing the best way to prevent/ slow down the process would be cardio, k2 (mk7) and keeping blood pressure in check ? I've seen reports on some athletes that have died and used steroids/rec drugs with no signs of artherscolosis although they had a enlarged heart. I assume the high amounts of cardio have played a part in preventing it. Chris benoit is a example although his actual death was not heart related take a look at his report


----------



## pma111

Jonk891 said:


> I'm guessing the best way to prevent/ slow down the process would be cardio, k2 (mk7) and keeping blood pressure in check ? I've seen reports on some athletes that have died and used steroids/rec drugs with no signs of artherscolosis although they had a enlarged heart. I assume the high amounts of cardio have played a part in preventing it. Chris benoit is a example although his actual death was not heart related take a look at his report


 And doing all that can be done to reduce inflammation from what I understand. This calcium & cholesterol is a tool the body uses as a band aid to protect and patch up against damage/inflammation. Some of the protocols ive seen include vitamin c silica proline and lysine to help strengthen the arteries and make them stronger therefore less of a need to patch up damage /inflammation using this plaque (calcium and cholesterol). Magensium D3 K2 and IP6 are apparently useful to keep plaque out of soft tissue (keep calcium in bone and out of soft tissue like arteries).


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> calories from fibre? Just count them as usual carbs?
> 
> What do you make of all the non processed properly etc etc


 Count ALL calories, worst case scenario, you end up with a slightly bigger deficit and lose extra fat.

When bulking, i do the opposite and underestimate calories if i am guessing to make sure i hit my goal.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I'm guessing the best way to prevent/ slow down the process would be cardio, k2 (mk7) and keeping blood pressure in check ? I've seen reports on some athletes that have died and used steroids/rec drugs with no signs of artherscolosis although they had a enlarged heart. I assume the high amounts of cardio have played a part in preventing it. Chris benoit is a example although his actual death was not heart related take a look at his report


 Exactly, and being lean year round and having good HDL levels also help.

Dallas McCarver already had extensive atherosclerosis and he was still in his 20s. There are case studies showing atherosclerosis in trenbolone users.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4614617/ : example of a 23 year old with arterial stenosis from trenbolone use.

I believe your theory would be true, someone who is otherwise healthy, fit and active but using AAS can be relatively healthy. I like using Arnold and Stallone as example, they aged very well for having a lifetime use of AAS.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 2-4 week test prop, then switch to test C. The test C will raise levels to almost max after the first two injections. The test prop activates the androgen genes faster. I believe it's because of the sharper spikes in serum levels.


 Thx! Im a bit confused, so you mean test P without test C for first 4 weeks?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx! Im a bit confused, so you mean test P without test C for first 4 weeks?


 Yep

Run a steroidcalc.com graph and you will see test cyp gets levels close to as high as they will get in 1-2 innjections.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yep
> 
> Run a steroidcalc.com graph and you will see test cyp gets levels close to as high as they will get in 1-2 innjections.


 Why do ppl say that it takes 4-5 weeks for cyp then? Also I would pink 600mg once a week but the website shows that its better to do 300mg twice a week at least?


----------



## CHRIS GW

What do you make of the 'claims' regarding the slowdown of metabolic rate when dieting?

1. If you have some days where you fast and eat very little, is this more beneficial for fat loss than sticking to a -500kcal deficit?

2. If using t3, does this mitigate the slow-down of metabolic rate on days where you take calories very low?


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Is that a bad idea to use 40mg Telmisartan for health purpose?

This low dose keeps my bp in range...


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Why do ppl say that it takes 4-5 weeks for cyp then? Also I would pink 600mg once a week but the website shows that its better to do 300mg twice a week at least?


 That's the time it takes for the testosterone to activate the AR receptor gene expression. Levels are very high in the first week of e/c ester.

With enanthate, you can do once a week. x 2 per week is more stable and injection volume will be lower. It's up to you. I do my short and long esters at x 2 per week frequency. EOD and ED is good for very high volume of oil but i have not seen any benefit.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> What do you make of the 'claims' regarding the slowdown of metabolic rate when dieting?
> 
> 1. If you have some days where you fast and eat very little, is this more beneficial for fat loss than sticking to a -500kcal deficit?
> 
> 2. If using t3, does this mitigate the slow-down of metabolic rate on days where you take calories very low?


 Once you hit single digit body fat, your metabolism will slow down as much as 500 calories a day. So if your daily maintenance is 2,500, you gotta eat 2,000 or less to stay under 10%. Everyone is different though and some don't slow down as much as others.

Yes it can, i would run the T3 daily and not just on the days you do reduced calories. Keep it simple. 25-50 mcg will do the job. Muscle flatness will increase as you up the dosage. 100 mcg can start to affect strength, muscular and cardiovascular endurance. I recommend 25-50 mcg+ a fat burner like EC stack, yohimbine, DNP or clen. T3 by itself is a fairly lackluster fat burner.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> That's the time it takes for the testosterone to activate the AR receptor gene expression. Levels are very high in the first week of e/c ester.
> 
> With enanthate, you can do once a week. x 2 per week is more stable and injection volume will be lower. It's up to you. I do my short and long esters at x 2 per week frequency. EOD and ED is good for very high volume of oil but i have not seen any benefit.


 Ah I see, so the prop will activate the AR receptor which is why test C will kick in within its first peak? Im doing cypionate not enathate but I guess its fine to do once a week too? Also will it do any harm to dose ralox on cycle if im very gyno prone, how would you dose this?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Once you hit single digit body fat, your metabolism will slow down as much as 500 calories a day. So if your daily maintenance is 2,500, you gotta eat 2,000 or less to stay under 10%. Everyone is different though and some don't slow down as much as others.
> 
> Yes it can, i would run the T3 daily and not just on the days you do reduced calories. Keep it simple. 25-50 mcg will do the job. Muscle flatness will increase as you up the dosage. 100 mcg can start to affect strength, muscular and cardiovascular endurance. I recommend 25-50 mcg+ a fat burner like EC stack, yohimbine, DNP or clen. T3 by itself is a fairly lackluster fat burner.


 Re:T3.

Useful of a bulk for nutrient partitioning or is this a myth?

If using on a cut, is it benificial purely for those getting to single digit bf levels or are there other benifits? I've heard bro science suggesting it helps offset tren sides and prolactin build up?

Cheers


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Just got bloods 3 months into cruise of 150mg pw

eveeything perfect, test at mid-range trough, E2 mid range, rbc kidney etc all great

only thing is my ldl/hdl is still SHOT. It's like 15% ration (wrong ends of both "normal" brackets respectively).

It was like this whilst on 150mg test 300mg tren (as expected, which I ran for 7 months).

I expected it to improve 3 months into a cruise? Don't take any supps - can you suggest any?

I already do cardio 3-4X a week for 20 mins medium-high intensity, and have a lowish bf (never lose abs).

ill cruise for another 3 months and re-test, just want to know everything I can do in then meantime. Happy to not bulk/cut just maintain and take a break whilst cruising, and just reccomp over summer.


----------



## SoberHans

Got two more questions sorry.

I'm going on holiday after my tren cycle but I'll be keeping my diet in check and I don't drink alcohol.

How long before I go should I stop the tren if I want the muscle fullness for my holiday?

Also is it worth adding T3 to my tren cycle?

Thanks again


----------



## pma111

What kind of impact honestly does hypothyroidism have on TDEE. Is it as simple as those with low thyroid function naturally burn e.g. 500 cal less that those with normal thyroid function, less/more or little impact at all.


----------



## Sam R

@El Chapo will trenbolone show up as estrogen on a basic finger pr**k blood test? I want to see if estrogen is in range on this cycle but I'm running 50mg eod of Tren acetate and don't want to waste the money if the results will be skewed.


----------



## drwae

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo will trenbolone show up as estrogen on a basic finger pr**k blood test? I want to see if estrogen is in range on this cycle but I'm running 50mg eod of Tren acetate and don't want to waste the money if the results will be skewed.


 it depends on what kind of test they run on the blood not the method of obtaining the blood


----------



## Sam R

drwae said:


> it depends on what kind of test they run on the blood not the method of obtaining the blood


 Standard medichecks test mate, not sure what type of test that would be, any idea?


----------



## drwae

Sam R said:


> Standard medichecks test mate, not sure what type of test that would be, any idea?


 Just go on the live chat and ask if they use ECLIA or LC-MS for E2 testing, if it's ECLIA then tren might give a false reading for E2


----------



## darren.1987

Sam R said:


> Standard medichecks test mate, not sure what type of test that would be, any idea?


 it's ECLIA so no point. I bought one to do the same so will use it on cruise dose.


----------



## adam28

We need to find a firm that do LC-MS blood tests. I would Defo pay the extra to know where the fcuk I am lol.

Medichecks could earn extra cash by introducing these. As im sure alot of us would use the service.


----------



## SlinMeister

I had false reading on E2 Just with TrenE even on LC-MS blood test. Had 16k on E2 lol.

With acetate always normal E2 reading.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Ah I see, so the prop will activate the AR receptor which is why test C will kick in within its first peak? Im doing cypionate not enathate but I guess its fine to do once a week too? Also will it do any harm to dose ralox on cycle if im very gyno prone, how would you dose this?


 If it's a test only cycle, i would use AI for gyno control. If it's tren, i would just blast and take the ralox on PCT or cruise to reverse any gyno you accumulated.

I've seen mixed results with ralox on tren cycles, sometimes it wont work. I think it would work well on a test only cycle, but AI should do the job too.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Re:T3.
> 
> Useful of a bulk for nutrient partitioning or is this a myth?
> 
> If using on a cut, is it benificial purely for those getting to single digit bf levels or are there other benifits? I've heard bro science suggesting it helps offset tren sides and prolactin build up?
> 
> Cheers


 Optimal thyroid levels lead to better nutrient partitioning and tissue growth. The only actual study i've seen to prove this was in chickens, the chickens given the right dose of T4 grew more on less. Too much and too little were detrimental. Hypothyroidism can cause muscle weakness.

Typically, T3 is limited on how useful it is. There are much better compounds for fat loss. Deficit+cardio+dnp or ec or yohimbine or clen will rip you up great.

Trenbolone seems to affect neurotransmitters like serotonine and dopamine. I base this off personal experience and studies on Nandrolone showing the same. I don't think T3 will did much for tren sides honestly, buddy and i tried it before. USA pharma grade too.

For tren sides :

Gyno ; Run ralox post-cycle 4-8 weeks depending on severity of tren. Replace with winstrol/superdrol for next cycle if you don't want to deal with gyno.

Erectile dysfunction; cialis @ 20 mg x 2-3 per week.

Mood/insomnia ; not much you can do for this, lots of sex can help with both in my experience. I feel that light cardio helps too, likely from the serotonin/endorphins boost.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just got bloods 3 months into cruise of 150mg pw
> 
> eveeything perfect, test at mid-range trough, E2 mid range, rbc kidney etc all great
> 
> only thing is my ldl/hdl is still SHOT. It's like 15% ration (wrong ends of both "normal" brackets respectively).
> 
> It was like this whilst on 150mg test 300mg tren (as expected, which I ran for 7 months).
> 
> I expected it to improve 3 months into a cruise? Don't take any supps - can you suggest any?
> 
> I already do cardio 3-4X a week for 20 mins medium-high intensity, and have a lowish bf (never lose abs).
> 
> ill cruise for another 3 months and re-test, just want to know everything I can do in then meantime. Happy to not bulk/cut just maintain and take a break whilst cruising, and just reccomp over summer.


 What's your HDL level?

Cholesterol levels are mostly genetics. If HDL is good and you do cardio, don't worry about it. You can boost your HDL levels with daily cardio, niacin/red yeast rice extract, red wine, and fish oil.

Lipids should have recovered by now (within 4-8 weeks) . Do you have any pre-cycle labs for cholesterol to see your original baseline? Maybe you were always low?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Got two more questions sorry.
> 
> I'm going on holiday after my tren cycle but I'll be keeping my diet in check and I don't drink alcohol.
> 
> How long before I go should I stop the tren if I want the muscle fullness for my holiday?
> 
> Also is it worth adding T3 to my tren cycle?
> 
> Thanks again


 Tren ace or E, that's hard to guess since everyone is different. If you wanna stay full, keep carbs high and eat around maintenance calories and do some light weight/high reps in the hotel gym daily or EOD. T3 will make you flatter than a pancake after 25 mcg and no real benefit.

I can't guess how long the tren look will last you, but it should be at least 1 week on ace and maybe 2 weeks on E but that's a guess.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What kind of impact honestly does hypothyroidism have on TDEE. Is it as simple as those with low thyroid function naturally burn e.g. 500 cal less that those with normal thyroid function, less/more or little impact at all.


 It depends on the severity. With lethargy/fatigue you also get a lot less movement and activity which is one of the mechanisms of the weight gain. A mild case will not cause a significant enough drop in TDEE to affect fat loss. I know someone who had mild hypothyroidism most of their life without medication and had no trouble getting lean.

Supplementing T4 @ 200 mcg daily increased BMR by 3 % i think in a study i read the other day.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo will trenbolone show up as estrogen on a basic finger pr**k blood test? I want to see if estrogen is in range on this cycle but I'm running 50mg eod of Tren acetate and don't want to waste the money if the results will be skewed.


 I believe the medichecks/UK finger test uses the ECLIA, so tren will pop as E2.


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> We need to find a firm that do LC-MS blood tests. I would Defo pay the extra to know where the fcuk I am lol.
> 
> Medichecks could earn extra cash by introducing these. As im sure alot of us would use the service.


 Many people don't know about tren/e2 connection, it might catch on eventually. Raloxifine is also not well-known for curing gyno yet but one day it will be a staple. This is "cutting edge" stuff at the moment.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Tren ace or E, that's hard to guess since everyone is different. If you wanna stay full, keep carbs high and eat around maintenance calories and do some light weight/high reps in the hotel gym daily or EOD. T3 will make you flatter than a pancake after 25 mcg and no real benefit.
> 
> I can't guess how long the tren look will last you, but it should be at least 1 week on ace and maybe 2 weeks on E but that's a guess.


 Perfect thanks again, it's ace should have said, was gonna stop the tren two weeks before holiday might do it one week now.

The board's lucky to have you here, wish I could tip you haha


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> If it's a test only cycle, i would use AI for gyno control. If it's tren, i would just blast and take the ralox on PCT or cruise to reverse any gyno you accumulated.
> 
> I've seen mixed results with ralox on tren cycles, sometimes it wont work. I think it would work well on a test only cycle, but AI should do the job too.


 Thank you for all the help! Really helps out a lot! Im doing test only around 600mg a week, but already got some gyno, would ralox do any harm if taken on cycle, since you recommend to wait for pct?


----------



## CHRIS GW

What do you make of the compound DHB 1-test Cyp? It seems to be all the rage these days but there's not a great deal of real world results available to see on the net, that I've found anyway!

I've just started it at 525mg per week but I'm only 3 weeks in, so obviously not really seeing the full extent of it yet.

Do you rate it? More for bulk or cut? Optimum use/dose etc? It's supposedly got thermogenic properties but that remains to be seen...


----------



## ghost.recon

What's up mofos


----------



## darren.1987

zariph said:


> Thank you for all the help! Really helps out a lot! Im doing test only around 600mg a week, but already got some gyno, would ralox do any harm if taken on cycle, since you recommend to wait for pct?


 I tried it on cycle and it shrunk the lump quite a bit I used it for 60 days but cruise dose and small about of adex say 0.25 twice a week did more


----------



## zariph

darren.1987 said:


> I tried it on cycle and it shrunk the lump quite a bit I used it for 60 days but cruise dose and small about of adex say 0.25 twice a week did more


 Cool, thing is im very gyno prone even tho my e2 isnt that high


----------



## Sam R

@El Chapo @ghost.recon when beginning a cycle/blast, the hormones take time to 'kick in' dependant on the ester, was wondering whether you still reap the muscle gaining benefits of the hormone before gene expression occurs/hormone begins to work? Specifically long esters, for example when cutting in a deficit of calories, would you reap the muscle sparing benefits of say a Test E & Tren E cycle during the first four weeks before they have 'kicked in'? I know that side effects express themselves immediately after administration, was wondering if you still benefit from having the hormone in your bloodstream before it's working at its full potential?


----------



## SoberHans

How many grams of protein should one consume on a cutting cycle per pound in body weight?


----------



## stewedw

SoberHans said:


> How many grams of protein should one consume on a cutting cycle per pound in body weight?


 He answered this near the start of the thread. When cutting aim for 1gram per lb of "lean body mass", no harm sticking to the same rule when bulking although he states its not required. So for most blokes 180-200grams per day which is easy done via food and/or supps.

Edit. Typos fixed. Lol


----------



## SoberHans

stewedw said:


> He answered this near the stay of the thread. When cutting aim for 1gram per Ln of "lean body mass", not harm sticking to the same rule when bulking although he states its not required. So for most blokes 180-200grams per day which is easy done via food and/or supps.


 Nice one, cheers


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo What is the best balance between cardiovascular health and doing minimal cardio

I have to eat enough as is when bulking and have always tried to do cardio but my numbers have been arbitrary (3x30 mins per week, 4x20 mins per week, 2 x45 min ect)

What would you say is the ideal amount (sessions and duration) in those just doing it purely to try and offset the negative health effects of AAS whilst maximizing their resistance exercise performance?


----------



## Pancake'

swole troll said:


> 4x20 mins per week


 This would be your best bet imo. If you wanted to ensure and maximise things from a health standpoint.


----------



## swole troll

Pancake' said:


> This would be your best bet imo. If you wanted to ensure and maximise things from a health standpoint.


 Just to clarify (incase one of us misunderstood one another)

I didn't mean just limited to that list

I meant open for suggestion on the best return on investment minimum time spent doing cardio per week


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for all the help! Really helps out a lot! Im doing test only around 600mg a week, but already got some gyno, would ralox do any harm if taken on cycle, since you recommend to wait for pct?


 It will work, but also get yourself some AI. 0.5-1 mg Adex mon/thursday will do the job. Nolvadex will also work almost as good as ralox.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> What do you make of the compound DHB 1-test Cyp? It seems to be all the rage these days but there's not a great deal of real world results available to see on the net, that I've found anyway!
> 
> I've just started it at 525mg per week but I'm only 3 weeks in, so obviously not really seeing the full extent of it yet.
> 
> Do you rate it? More for bulk or cut? Optimum use/dose etc? It's supposedly got thermogenic properties but that remains to be seen...


 DHB is what masteron is to testosterone but for EQ. It's a DHT like AAS (it's actually 5-alpha reduced EQ ), it has drying/polishing effects on the muscles. It's similar to winstrol/masteron.

It's more of a cutter for sure but can be used for bulk. Use it as part of stack like you would a DHT. For example, instead of Test, Tren, mast, you would go test, tren, DHB. I would rank it higher than masteron in terms of potency but i prefer winstrol/superdrol myself.

300-600 mg as part of a stack will work very effectively.

You can also add it to a cruise with HRT dose test and add 100-200 mg per week.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Cool, thing is im very gyno prone even tho my e2 isnt that high


 It's all genetics, some guys can have sky high E2 and run tren/dbol with zero gyno. Others get puffy nipples even on HRT doses of testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.recon when beginning a cycle/blast, the hormones take time to 'kick in' dependant on the ester, was wondering whether you still reap the muscle gaining benefits of the hormone before gene expression occurs/hormone begins to work? Specifically long esters, for example when cutting in a deficit of calories, would you reap the muscle sparing benefits of say a Test E & Tren E cycle during the first four weeks before they have 'kicked in'? I know that side effects express themselves immediately after administration, was wondering if you still benefit from having the hormone in your bloodstream before it's working at its full potential?


 There are certain effects that are "non-genomic" so these kick in immediately as soon as serum levels go up. I believe it's possible to get some immediate benefits but they will be very subtle. I am a fan of short esters, i "feel" them more and they kick in a lot faster. Water retention is also greatly reduced for me.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> How many grams of protein should one consume on a cutting cycle per pound in body weight?


 1 gram per lbs of lean body mass. So take your body weight, calculate approximate body fat percentage, subtract that from total weight = Lean body mass.

You can increase the protein for satiety purposes or diet preference but 1 gram per lbs of LBM will do the job.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo What is the best balance between cardiovascular health and doing minimal cardio
> 
> I have to eat enough as is when bulking and have always tried to do cardio but my numbers have been arbitrary (3x30 mins per week, 4x20 mins per week, 2 x45 min ect)
> 
> What would you say is the ideal amount (sessions and duration) in those just doing it purely to try and offset the negative health effects of AAS whilst maximizing their resistance exercise performance?


 That's the challenge during bulking, when you need to ram the calories down and doing cardio ends up further increasing caloric intake requirement it sucks.

Exercise intensity decreases the amount required per week to reap the health benefits. As little as 20 minutes of moderate intensity exercise x 3 per week is more than enough (jogging at 5-6 mph). For walking, you need to bump that up to 30-60 minutes x 3 per week. HIIT/sprinting you can get away with as little as 12 minutes x 3 per week.

This will help offset negative effects of AAS on cardiovascular health and enhance workout recovery/endurance. I notice a huge benefit in my lifts when i do cardio, but it has to be just the right amount as to not affect recovery.

Low-moderate intensity is better at keeping arteries supple and heart muscle/chambers elastic. High intensity is good at increasing heart contraction strength/efficiency and how much blood can be pumped per contraction. They both have their benefits.

For longevity, the low/moderate type is more important but for people short on time, HIIT is much more efficient. I recommend low intensity during a bulk/cut as high intensity/HIIT can impair recovery and tax the CNS which can negatively affect your lifts.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> DHB is what masteron is to testosterone but for EQ. It's a DHT like AAS (it's actually 5-alpha reduced EQ ), it has drying/polishing effects on the muscles.


 How would you deal with the elevated haemocrit RBC count with the like of EQ & DHB? I'm put off it's use, because of this reason. soon as discontinued should this effect reduce?

mg/ml of DHB should anything over 100-150mg/ml be avoided due to such pip?


----------



## zariph

If one already have a little high haemoglobin, which steroid could you add to test for mass?

Dbol

Npp

Anavar

or do all these effect it to a degree where you shouldnt take it, if so what would be the mildest on RBC?


----------



## Redsy

Hi @ElChapo. Thanks for your time on this thread. Its been a good read.

I have started a thread but would really appreciate your thoughts.

Bascially had a hernia operation yesterday. What would be a good cycle for recovery, wound healing, retension of muscle as i've just come off cycle. Really hoping for something as mild as possible where health markers would recover.

Had thought of a 8 week planned recovery cycle POST operation

150mg Test E / week

200mg EQ / week

Anavar 25mg ED (split into AM and PM) - just for first 4 weeks.

25mg Proviron ED

3IU Ansomone GH M/W/F

500IU HCG

Would appreciate your thoughts, many thanks

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/325831-cycle-to-help-post-surgery-trt-extras/?do=embed


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> How would you deal with the elevated haemocrit RBC count with the like of EQ & DHB? I'm put off it's use, because of this reason. soon as discontinued should this effect reduce?
> 
> mg/ml of DHB should anything over 100-150mg/ml be avoided due to such pip?


 EQ does not increase RBC anymore than testosterone does, that's a myth. If you go over 51% hematocrit, donate blood and it will drop your points by 2-3% most of the time.

Guaicol will increase how much mg/mL oil can hold and greatly reduce PIP. Pharmacom for example, adds a bit of guaicol to their test P. You can make PIPless test p and DHB with guaicol. You can try using over 150 mg/mL DHB, if it pips, just cut it down yourself. A master brewer will not make a product with significant PIP even at high concentrations.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> If one already have a little high haemoglobin, which steroid could you add to test for mass?
> 
> Dbol
> 
> Npp
> 
> Anavar
> 
> or do all these effect it to a degree where you shouldnt take it, if so what would be the mildest on RBC?


 Effect on RBC is genetic, some guys are sensitive, a lot of guys won't have a problem with it. Do you have access to blood donation? Then you have nothing to worry about.

All androgens increase RBC, but the DHT-based and trenbolone will not have as much of an effect as testosterone in my experience.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Hi @ElChapo. Thanks for your time on this thread. Its been a good read.
> 
> I have started a thread but would really appreciate your thoughts.
> 
> Bascially had a hernia operation yesterday. What would be a good cycle for recovery, wound healing, retension of muscle as i've just come off cycle. Really hoping for something as mild as possible where health markers would recover.
> 
> Had thought of a 8 week planned recovery cycle POST operation
> 
> 150mg Test E / week
> 
> 200mg EQ / week
> 
> Anavar 25mg ED (split into AM and PM) - just for first 4 weeks.
> 
> 25mg Proviron ED
> 
> 3IU Ansomone GH M/W/F
> 
> 500IU HCG
> 
> Would appreciate your thoughts, many thanks
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/325831-cycle-to-help-post-surgery-trt-extras/?do=embed


 How long until you are allowed to lift again? You won't lose muscle or strength for 3-4 weeks at all. You might look flatter but that's just glycogen/sarcoplasm.

If you want to run a cruise dose of test @ 300 mg or 150/150 test/tren or test/NPP. As soon as you can start lifting even light weights, do high rep/high volume until you can start lifting 100% again. You should lose no muscle , and any little you lose will come back in 4 weeks due to muscle memory.

That cycle would work. I would keep it simple. No need to split var AM/PM. The GH is good. I would bump test to 300 mg myself. This is where it starts to shine.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Effect on RBC is genetic, some guys are sensitive, a lot of guys won't have a problem with it. Do you have access to blood donation? Then you have nothing to worry about.
> 
> All androgens increase RBC, but the DHT-based and trenbolone will not have as much of an effect as testosterone in my experience.


 Appreciate the help!

What would be the lowest but still reasonable dose of Npp if doing 600mg test a week? Also how bad do you think npp is on the hearth compared to other steroids?


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> How long until you are allowed to lift again? You won't lose muscle or strength for 3-4 weeks at all. You might look flatter but that's just glycogen/sarcoplasm.
> 
> If you want to run a cruise dose of test @ 300 mg or 150/150 test/tren or test/NPP. As soon as you can start lifting even light weights, do high rep/high volume until you can start lifting 100% again. You should lose no muscle , and any little you lose will come back in 4 weeks due to muscle memory.
> 
> That cycle would work. I would keep it simple. No need to split var AM/PM. The GH is good. I would bump test to 300 mg myself. This is where it starts to shine.


 Thanks for reply.

Advised no lifting for 6-8weeks.

I suppose am really looking to maximise wound healing and recovery from operation primarily. However, if possible allow recovery from cycle I've just finished at same time, ready for next blast.

I want to get back in gym and on bike as soon as possible, so looking at best compounds and amounts to do so.

Never run, npp or tren as yet. I am mainly road cyclist who loves strength training. Prefer to be as lean as possible and keep total weight down within reason. Last cycle I bulked up. Next will be cut with high reps as you described so that works.

So my cycle, you think would be ok with increasing test to 300mg?

Jab twice per week if increasing test to 300mg?

Should be pretty mild and say after 8weeks on this be good to move into a cut. Probably do Test/anavar/clen.

Thanks ?


----------



## jd

Redsy said:


> Thanks for reply.
> 
> Advised no lifting for 6-8weeks.
> 
> I suppose am really looking to maximise wound healing and recovery from operation primarily. However, if possible allow recovery from cycle I've just finished at same time, ready for next blast.
> 
> I want to get back in gym and on bike as soon as possible, so looking at best compounds and amounts to do so.
> 
> Never run, npp or tren as yet. I am mainly road cyclist who loves strength training. Prefer to be as lean as possible and keep total weight down within reason. Last cycle I bulked up. Next will be cut with high reps as you described so that works.
> 
> So my cycle, you think would be ok with increasing test to 300mg?
> 
> Jab twice per week if increasing test to 300mg?
> 
> Should be pretty mild and say after 8weeks on this be good to move into a cut. Probably do Test/anavar/clen.
> 
> Thanks ?


 Hi

how much do you find test effects your cycling? Not really cycled since I started test e and wondered how much it would effect cycling as I'm looking to get back into it and just bought a winter bike

thanks and I hope a swift recovery


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Appreciate the help!
> 
> What would be the lowest but still reasonable dose of Npp if doing 600mg test a week? Also how bad do you think npp is on the hearth compared to other steroids?


 I would do 300/300 test p/NPP to 600/400 test p/npp depending on your experience levels/goals/etc.

100-200 mg npp is a nice addition to a cruise or cycle bridge. I would do 300 mg minimum for a cycle or blast.

NPP won't be as bad you would think on the heart. You are gonna see people sharing bunch of studies on nandrolone/heart toxicity. In vitro (test tube/cells) studies are not the same as in vivo studies (living subjects). Don't pay it mind, just do your cardio, be reasonable with cycle length/dose and take care of your body.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Thanks for reply.
> 
> Advised no lifting for 6-8weeks.
> 
> I suppose am really looking to maximise wound healing and recovery from operation primarily. However, if possible allow recovery from cycle I've just finished at same time, ready for next blast.
> 
> I want to get back in gym and on bike as soon as possible, so looking at best compounds and amounts to do so.
> 
> Never run, npp or tren as yet. I am mainly road cyclist who loves strength training. Prefer to be as lean as possible and keep total weight down within reason. Last cycle I bulked up. Next will be cut with high reps as you described so that works.
> 
> So my cycle, you think would be ok with increasing test to 300mg?
> 
> Jab twice per week if increasing test to 300mg?
> 
> Should be pretty and say after 8weeks on this be good to move into a cut. Probably do Test/anavar/clen.
> 
> Thanks ?


 Yep, i thing you will be fine. Start your lifting at 6 weeks with higher reps, that means you will only have a 2 week gap between the 4 weeks you start losing muscle and when you resume your training. I think you will do great. I would bump to 300 mg myself. Don't worry about weight gain, muscle retention and wound healing is the goal.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo, how can I relax more? and what's your thoughts on meditation?

I struggle to calm down and leave an adrenaline state post workout. hours later, I can be intense, aggressive & irritable. sometimes even pensive and down.

Should I be training more composed, relaxed, and focused?


----------



## Redsy

jd said:


> Hi
> 
> how much do you find test effects your cycling? Not really cycled since I started test e and wondered how much it would effect cycling as I'm looking to get back into it and just bought a winter bike
> 
> thanks and I hope a swift recovery


 Don't really want to take this off topic too much here but be happy to share my experience to date.

My cycles I have done 1 low dose test and 2 test / EQ / GH

Aimed at bulking and gaining strength. I have undoubtedly. However, less time on bike, more bulk/weight have not helped climbing in bike for sure. Cardio has suffered due to less off it and some of water weight.

I came off cycle, dropped some weight and was much improved on bike.

I plan on, once back fit and can train again....to try and get back strength. Then a cut cycle, test / anavar / gh Increase reps, less rest between sets.

Then I will probably run, TRT test, Low dose EQ and GH, up miles on bike, less gym sessions. Do this for full spring/summer. Mainly test for recovery, increased RBC from EQ.

I find with test even at 350 my HR threshold I couldn't get to, my legs gave up with the burn quicker than without test. Where my HR could be 155 for an hour without test. With test I am getting to 145-150 and my legs are on fire and I can't hold same power.

I hope long term it will bring an improvement in performance.

Fwiw I do this for fun, am 44 and don't compete.

Hope this helps


----------



## TURBS

Redsy said:


> Mainly test for recovery, increased RBC from EQ.


 ElChapo said this is not the case...



ElChapo said:


> EQ does not increase RBC anymore than testosterone does, that's a myth. If you go over 51% hematocrit, donate blood and it will drop your points by 2-3% most of the time.


----------



## Redsy

TERBO said:


> ElChapo said this is not the case...


 Interesting. It does seem unproven but fancy giving it a try. EPO is far too dangerous imo for amateurs without medical support.

Would be interested in what you think @El Chapo would be a good cycle for a cyclist to use to perform better, without EPO in it?

As above, was thinking after reading a good thread months ago.

Test 150mg/week

EQ 200mg/week

GH 4iu EOD


----------



## jd

Redsy said:


> Don't really want to take this off topic too much here but be happy to share my experience to date.
> 
> My cycles I have done 1 low dose test and 2 test / EQ / GH
> 
> Aimed at bulking and gaining strength. I have undoubtedly. However, less time on bike, more bulk/weight have not helped climbing in bike for sure. Cardio has suffered due to less off it and some of water weight.
> 
> I came off cycle, dropped some weight and was much improved on bike.
> 
> I plan on, once back fit and can train again....to try and get back strength. Then a cut cycle, test / anavar / gh Increase reps, less rest between sets.
> 
> Then I will probably run, TRT test, Low dose EQ and GH, up miles on bike, less gym sessions. Do this for full spring/summer. Mainly test for recovery, increased RBC from EQ.
> 
> I find with test even at 350 my HR threshold I couldn't get to, my legs gave up with the burn quicker than without test. Where my HR could be 155 for an hour without test. With test I am getting to 145-150 and my legs are on fire and I can't hold same power.
> 
> I hope long term it will bring an improvement in performance.
> 
> Fwiw I do this for fun, am 44 and don't compete.
> 
> Hope this helps


 Cheers mate, I'll be getting back on the bike soon and doing the same sort of test cycles.

ill prob drop you a pm if that's ok at sometime rather than us taking over a good thread


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> ElChapo, how can I relax more? and what's your thoughts on meditation?
> 
> I struggle to calm down and leave an adrenaline state post workout. hours later, I can be intense, aggressive & irritable. sometimes even pensive and down.
> 
> Should I be training more composed, relaxed, and focused?


 Do you do any cardio? How often do you train? Do you have a significant other?

Are you on a low carb diet or eat low carbs?

Are you on any compounds/AAS?


----------



## ElChapo

TERBO said:


> ElChapo said this is not the case...


 Yeah, Test and EQ will both raise RBC/HCT, but EQ doesn't seem to have any special effect on RBC. Anecdotally, people report increased endurance on it though.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Interesting. It does seem unproven but fancy giving it a try. EPO is far too dangerous imo for amateurs without medical support.
> 
> Would be interested in what you think @El Chapo would be a good cycle for a cyclist to use to perform better, without EPO in it?
> 
> As above, was thinking after reading a good thread months ago.
> 
> Test 150mg/week
> 
> EQ 200mg/week
> 
> GH 4iu EOD


 100/100 - 200/200 test p/winstrol per week, very popular with fighters (winstrol and prop).

GH i would drop to 3, too much can increase water and weight. EQ takes a while to kick in, injectable winstrol hits hard, fast and absolutely sucks out water.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Do you do any cardio? How often do you train? Do you have a significant other?
> 
> Are you on a low carb diet or eat low carbs?
> 
> Are you on any compounds/AAS?


 Been slacking big time on cardio. solely lifting 5x week atm. I train my ass off. Fwb terms.

No, but I practically follow I.F, I've not been consistent diet wise, not been hitting a set caloric intake consistently, but my trainings been really good. very happy in regard with training, I often just feel garbage afterwards. I've been using 300mg caffeine powder 5x a week. Push/Pull/Legs/Upper/Lower my split.

No. I'm holding off peds till I reach my goals prior and have more consistency. I have my peds of choice at hand.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> 100/100 - 200/200 test p/winstrol per week, very popular with fighters (winstrol and prop).
> 
> GH i would drop to 3, too much can increase water and weight. EQ takes a while to kick in, injectable winstrol hits hard, fast and absolutely sucks out water.


 Does test p, hold less water?

Considered winny but the drying out of joints and cycling didn't sound a good idea. How long were you suggesting running prop/winny for.

Am fairly patient nowadays at 44, so waiting for EQ to kick in is ok. Also I'll be running for 4-5mths too.

I'll keep GH at 4 iu EOD whilst I heal but will drop back down once am back training

Should be fine with that length of time with pretty mild cycle?


----------



## Redsy

jd said:


> Cheers mate, I'll be getting back on the bike soon and doing the same sort of test cycles.
> 
> ill prob drop you a pm if that's ok at sometime rather than us taking over a good thread


 Feel free or just start a separate thread. Will be good to hear how you get on and the effect on performance.


----------



## JBlast

ElChapo said:


> How long until you are allowed to lift again? You won't lose muscle or strength for 3-4 weeks at all. You might look flatter but that's just glycogen/sarcoplasm.
> 
> If you want to run a cruise dose of test @ 300 mg or 150/150 test/tren or test/NPP. As soon as you can start lifting even light weights, do high rep/high volume until you can start lifting 100% again. You should lose no muscle , and any little you lose will come back in 4 weeks due to muscle memory.
> 
> That cycle would work. I would keep it simple. No need to split var AM/PM. The GH is good. I would bump test to 300 mg myself. This is where it starts to shine.


 1) By saying 150test/tren do you mean fast esters?

2) Is it ok to cruise on 200mg Test E 200mg tren E, also better to inject Enanthate ester once or twice per week?

3) Also better 200mg Test E, and 200mg Tren E cruise

OR

200mg Test E and 200mg Masteron cruise

OR

100mg Test E, 100mg Tren E, 100mg Mast E cruise?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo 20 min bike at the end of every workout good for the heart / cardio?

I get out of breath easily since 3-4 months , only using 250mg test but I've been on since months.

My bloods are in range because I give every 2 months.

I started doing cardio again 2 weeks ago for that 'problem' , 20 min at the end of every workout (5 in the week) and I'm hoping it will help.

Thank you for your time


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Been slacking big time on cardio. solely lifting 5x week atm. I train my ass off. Fwb terms.
> 
> No, but I practically follow I.F, I've not been consistent diet wise, not been hitting a set caloric intake consistently, but my trainings been really good. very happy in regard with training, I often just feel garbage afterwards. I've been using 300mg caffeine powder 5x a week. Push/Pull/Legs/Upper/Lower my split.
> 
> No. I'm holding off peds till I reach my goals prior and have more consistency. I have my peds of choice at hand.


 There's a lot going on here.

You could be overtraining.

caffeine intake is very high. lots of adrenaline = irritable.

have you tested your testosterone?

lower carbs = irritable. carbs release serotonin.

Sex, carbs and rest = relaxation.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Does test p, hold less water?
> 
> Considered winny but the drying out of joints and cycling didn't sound a good idea. How long were you suggesting running prop/winny for.
> 
> Am fairly patient nowadays at 44, so waiting for EQ to kick in is ok. Also I'll be running for 4-5mths too.
> 
> I'll keep GH at 4 iu EOD whilst I heal but will drop back down once am back training
> 
> Should be fine with that length of time with pretty mild cycle?


 Test p holds less water. You can run as long as you like. Every AAS treats everyone differently. Winstrol has a bad rep but massively underrated. It's the single most caught steroid in the olympics, period. There's a good reason for that...


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> 1) By saying 150test/tren do you mean fast esters?
> 
> 2) Is it ok to cruise on 200mg Test E 200mg tren E, also better to inject Enanthate ester once or twice per week?
> 
> 3) Also better 200mg Test E, and 200mg Tren E cruise
> 
> OR
> 
> 200mg Test E and 200mg Masteron cruise
> 
> OR
> 
> 100mg Test E, 100mg Tren E, 100mg Mast E cruise?


 The max test tren combo i would cruise on is 200 mg total per week, even that will cook your lipids. 400 mg is way too much for a cruise. its a perma blast.

I like injecting all esters x 2 per week but this is out of habit. You can get away with once a week on E or C.

I would keep the cruise between 200-300 mg. Depends. Test/mast would have you feeling healthier.

Tren will fry your lipids and is not ideal for cruising, especially if you get gyno, sex or mood side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo 20 min bike at the end of every workout good for the heart / cardio?
> 
> I get out of breath easily since 3-4 months , only using 250mg test but I've been on since months.
> 
> My bloods are in range because I give every 2 months.
> 
> I started doing cardio again 2 weeks ago for that 'problem' , 20 min at the end of every workout (5 in the week) and I'm hoping it will help.


 I think this will fix your problem and it's a good idea. The heart is a muscle and if it's not trained it will get weak.

Bad cardio is literally a "weak heart".

There's a saying in combat sports along the lines of, "getting tired will make a coward out of anyone."

Shortness of breath during rest is a sign of poor conditioning. I think your method should address this just fine, just make it a habit and do it forever.


----------



## mmichael

@ElChapo

I been looking to run orals. I have pretty much all of them on hand. I ran the superdrol before from range 20-80mg ED for 4 weeks, it was pretty good.

I was planning on doing whinny, but my elbow has been sore for a few weeks now and I heard it dries up joints, even though I'm on 400 deca. So I been putting it off.

I was going to run Var from 50-200 in 4 weeks and see how it goes...any thoughts on this for str/bulk?

Also, do u rate any other orals as of late

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

mmichael said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I been looking to run orals. I have pretty much all of them on hand. I ran the superdrol before from range 20-80mg ED for 4 weeks, it was pretty good.
> 
> I was planning on doing whinny, but my elbow has been sore for a few weeks now and I heard it dries up joints, even though I'm on 400 deca. So I been putting it off.
> 
> I was going to run Var from 50-200 in 4 weeks and see how it goes...any thoughts on this for str/bulk?
> 
> Also, do u rate any other orals as of late
> 
> Thanks


 You should be fine with winstrol on deca.

Superdrol and winstrol i rate the highest for orals. They work amazing as injectables as well.

Anavar is overrated/overpriced, but it will do the job for women and men at higher doses.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Is it true that using deca with finasteride will cause more hair loss? I'm currently on 150mg test per week with 1.25mg finasteride a day and want to add some npp, but not sure if deca is safe with finasteride. Is this a myth? Do you know any compounds that will be safe to use with finasteride for less hair loss?


----------



## JBlast

ElChapo said:


> The max test tren combo i would cruise on is 200 mg total per week, even that will cook your lipids. 400 mg is way too much for a cruise. its a perma blast.
> 
> I like injecting all esters x 2 per week but this is out of habit. You can get away with once a week on E or C.
> 
> I would keep the cruise between 200-300 mg. Depends. Test/mast would have you feeling healthier.
> 
> Tren will fry your lipids and is not ideal for cruising, especially if you get gyno, sex or mood side effects.


 Ok, then no tren on cruise for health reasons. I mean, I want to feel healthy, sex drive up, and have a nice mood.

So the best option for these reasons is Test E + Masteron E.

My questions are:

- Better Masteron E than Proviron 25/50mg per day?

- If aiming for a 300mg Cruise, including masteron, I should take 200mg Test E and 100mg Masteron E, isn't this dose too low for Masteron E?

- If you can give me dosage options about cruising with Test/Masteron E..so I can apply it for my cruise.

Thank you so much!


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is it true that using deca with finasteride will cause more hair loss? I'm currently on 150mg test per week with 1.25mg finasteride a day and want to add some npp, but not sure if deca is safe with finasteride. Is this a myth? Do you know any compounds that will be safe to use with finasteride for less hair loss?


 That theory is bunk in my opinion.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Ok, then no tren on cruise for health reasons. I mean, I want to feel healthy, sex drive up, and have a nice mood.
> 
> So the best option for these reasons is Test E + Masteron E.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> - Better Masteron E than Proviron 25/50mg per day?
> 
> - If aiming for a 300mg Cruise, including masteron, I should take 200mg Test E and 100mg Masteron E, isn't this dose too low for Masteron E?
> 
> - If you can give me dosage options about cruising with Test/Masteron E..so I can apply it for my cruise.
> 
> Thank you so much!


 You gotta try them both and see which one you feel best on. Masteron would have more physique benefits. It's gives a subtle drying and pump effect. Proviron is more mental.

I would rather do 150/150, that way E2 is lower as well, but this really depends what your total t and e2 are at when you take 200 mg, for some people it's too much/too little or just right.

100-150 of each compound for cruising. total 300 mg. Make sure BP, E2, lipids and hematocrit are in range during cruise and you are golden.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

Would Running 2iu GH Ed along with 250mg test E per week. Would this be OK for a mini cut (non aggressive) for 4 weeks without losing any muscle.

I have gained around a stone so far of weight using test @ 400mg and primo at 1g and GH 2iu ED.

I just want a 4 week break from the bulk and 7ml oil Pinning per week to lose a few lbs of fat befor I ramp it up again before cutting properly in late spring next year.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I would do 300/300 test p/NPP to 600/400 test p/npp depending on your experience levels/goals/etc.
> 
> 100-200 mg npp is a nice addition to a cruise or cycle bridge. I would do 300 mg minimum for a cycle or blast.
> 
> NPP won't be as bad you would think on the heart. You are gonna see people sharing bunch of studies on nandrolone/heart toxicity. In vitro (test tube/cells) studies are not the same as in vivo studies (living subjects). Don't pay it mind, just do your cardio, be reasonable with cycle length/dose and take care of your body.


 Which steroids do you prefer for putting size and which for cutting?

Also I see you like winny, do you think there is a point in running any other orals for size like dbol or would deca or other injectables do better?

Thank you so much, learning so much from this!!!!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would Running 2iu GH Ed along with 250mg test E per week. Would this be OK for a mini cut (non aggressive) for 4 weeks without losing any muscle.
> 
> I have gained around a stone so far of weight using test @ 400mg and primo at 1g and GH 2iu ED.
> 
> I just want a 4 week break from the bulk and 7ml oil Pinning per week to lose a few lbs of fat befor I ramp it up again before cutting properly in late spring next year.


 That depends on how much muscle you have, your genetics, and nutrition/training.

Most people can cut on 300 mg test no problem. I would bump to 300 mg, the GH will help further. Unless you have crazy mass, this will do the job.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Which steroids do you prefer for putting size and which for cutting?
> 
> Also I see you like winny, do you think there is a point in running any other orals for size like dbol or would deca or other injectables do better?
> 
> Thank you so much, learning so much from this!!!!


 Size comes down to nutrition, training and genetics. Certain AAS have specific cosmetic effects like winstrol's vascularity/drying effect. I am a fan of test prop/winstrol/superdrol (and/or tren) for bulking and cutting. Versatile, cheap and effective. Minimal water retention. Many bodybuilders stay fairly lean year round while putting on quality, lean mass. No need to dirty bulk and bloof out.

Orals are a very cheap, effective and easy way to greatly increase the efficacy of a cycle. They kick in fast and have strong effects on a visual level and can greatly enhance strength and recovery.

Winstrol is as effective as dbol for size and strength. Dbol water retention gives an illusion of extra mass. It's also not ideal for gyno or e2 sensitive individuals.


----------



## Devil

Can't access gyms for proper workouts for a month or so.

Cruising on 150mg test now 8 weeks.

In short, would every other day of pull ups (maybe 10 sets of 5-10...to failure) and push ups (again 10 sets of maybe 20-50 reps) to failure, maintain all muscle mass? With adequate protein.

Time is too much Essence and I literally have 30 mins to workout (inc travel) a day, so was hoping a ton of BW stuff would do me okay without any muscle loss for a month or so @ElChapo

i know it's subjective, I'm not massive. 6ft 185-190lbs 10-12% bf or so


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Can't access gyms for proper workouts for a month or so.
> 
> Cruising on 150mg test now 8 weeks.
> 
> In short, would every other day of pull ups (maybe 10 sets of 5-10...to failure) and push ups (again 10 sets of maybe 20-50 reps) to failure, maintain all muscle mass? With adequate protein.
> 
> Time is too much Essence and I literally have 30 mins to workout (inc travel) a day, so was hoping a ton of BW stuff would do me okay without any muscle loss for a month or so @ElChapo
> 
> i know it's subjective, I'm not massive. 6ft 185-190lbs 10-12% bf or so


 If you completely stopped training, it would take 3-4 weeks to start losing mass and strength.

You can just relax and take the month off completely, this will let your joints, muscles and CNS/brain rest from training. You will come back refreshed and ready to train harder than ever.

If you wanna mess around with the push ups and pull ups, there is research showing that very high reps with minimal weight is actually pretty effective at preserving mass.

In your situation, i would just stop training for the 4 weeks and let the body rest. You won't lose muscle or strength, and any bit that you might lose will be back in 2-4 weeks thanks to muscle memory. ( a very real and awesome phenomenon )


----------



## Sam R

@El Chapo heart rate around 85-90bpm at rest whilst on a test/Tren/masteron cycle. Weight has gone up which is the main factor but I think the trenbolone plays a big part in the increased heart rate. Have been doing cardio 30 minutes 2x per week in the hope that it won't get any higher as I put more weight on. Weigh 220lbs currently and when I had cut in summer was down to 205lbs, whilst cruising resting heart rate was 70bpm. Do you think it's detrimental to long term heart health to stay at this resting heart rate for the entire of winter whilst eating in a surplus and running trenbolone?

thanks


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> cell-tech said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ElChapo Is it true that using deca with finasteride will cause more hair loss? I'm currently on 150mg test per week with 1.25mg finasteride a day and want to add some npp, but not sure if deca is safe with finasteride. Is this a myth? Do you know any compounds that will be safe to use with finasteride for less hair loss?
> 
> 
> 
> That theory is bunk in my opinion.
Click to expand...

 Would you reccomend tbol as an oral which will cause minimal hair loss? I've heard conflicting views about anavar as some say its mild but its also a dht derivative so is not a good idea if hair loss is a concern?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo heart rate around 85-90bpm at rest whilst on a test/Tren/masteron cycle. Weight has gone up which is the main factor but I think the trenbolone plays a big part in the increased heart rate. Have been doing cardio 30 minutes 2x per week in the hope that it won't get any higher as I put more weight on. Weigh 220lbs currently and when I had cut in summer was down to 205lbs, whilst cruising resting heart rate was 70bpm. Do you think it's detrimental to long term heart health to stay at this resting heart rate for the entire of winter whilst eating in a surplus and running trenbolone?
> 
> thanks


 You will be fine, its the tren. Just don't do that year round and keep doing your cardio. The muscle will stay after the cycle but your heart rate will come back down.

The guys who are getting heart attacks and strokes are true abusers and generally have genes predisposing them to heart disease.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Would you reccomend tbol as an oral which will cause minimal hair loss? I've heard conflicting views about anavar as some say its mild but its also a dht derivative so is not a good idea if hair loss is a concern?


 VAR should be very mild on hairloss. DHT derivative doesn't mean it will be androgenic after the molecule is modified.

I suggest running Nizoral 2% shampoo year round daily or x 3 per week if you want to slow down hairloss. Let it sit in your hair for 5 minutes while you shower and rinse off.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> VAR should be very mild on hairloss. DHT derivative doesn't mean it will be androgenic after the molecule is modified.
> 
> I suggest running Nizoral 2% shampoo year round daily or x 3 per week if you want to slow down hairloss. Let it sit in your hair for 5 minutes while you shower and rinse off.


 Thats interesting - Deca isn't a dht derivative but it could be worse for hairloss than anavar ? Would you recommend anavar or deca alongside low dose test in terms of hair loss?

Thanks for all the info


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Thats interesting - Deca isn't a dht derivative but it could be worse for hairloss than anavar ? Would you recommend anavar or deca alongside low dose test in terms of hair loss?
> 
> Thanks for all the info


 It's never as simple as DHT or not. It's DHT-derivative, it's no longer DHT and behaves in no way at all like DHT. Anavar is extremely popular with women due to very low androgenicity despite it being a DHT derivative. It's also the least likely to give positive mood and libido effects for females (again due to low androgenecity) .

Yeah, HRT dose of testosterone (150-200 mg) and anavar would be ideal. 50-100 mg daily. You can buy a labmax kit to make sure it's real anavar and not winstrol or dbol. You can also add 100-300 mg NPP or deca to that. Again, run nizoral 2% shampoo even when off cycle if hair loss is an issue or fear you have.

Idk what your physique goals are so i can't be more specific with dosing, etc.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> It's never as simple as DHT or not. It's DHT-derivative, it's no longer DHT and behaves in no way at all like DHT. Anavar is extremely popular with women due to very low androgenicity despite it being a DHT derivative. It's also the least likely to give positive mood and libido effects for females (again due to low androgenecity) .
> 
> Yeah, HRT dose of testosterone (150-200 mg) and anavar would be ideal. 50-100 mg daily. You can buy a labmax kit to make sure it's real anavar and not winstrol or dbol. You can also add 100-300 mg NPP or deca to that. Again, run nizoral 2% shampoo even when off cycle if hair loss is an issue or fear you have.
> 
> Idk what your physique goals are so i can't be more specific with dosing, etc.


 Perfect, thats the exact doses i was planning.

Last question - would 2iu/day of pharma gh make much of a difference on top of the low dose test/deca/anavar? For financial reasons im debating whether to use the gh if it wont make a huge difference (my goal is the fitness model look not crazy size). My budget will allow me up to 4iu/day if necessary. Thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Perfect, thats the exact doses i was planning.
> 
> Last question - would 2iu/day of pharma gh make much of a difference on top of the low dose test/deca/anavar? For financial reasons im debating whether to use the gh if it wont make a huge difference (my goal is the fitness model look not crazy size). My budget will allow me up to 4iu/day if necessary. Thanks again


 Not really worth it. You can probably get fitness model size without crazy high doses if you aren't very tall or have good genetics.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I was wondering if COQ10 supplements is useful ? I've read it's not but I wanted to know what you think ?

-Taking ubiquinol at 200mg / day is good for AAS users ? do you recommend It ?

-High doses of Curcumin for LVH ? what do you think about it ?

cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I was wondering if COQ10 supplements is useful ? I've read it's not but I wanted to know what you think ?
> 
> -Taking ubiquinol at 200mg / day is good for AAS users ? do you recommend It ?
> 
> -High doses of Curcumin for LVH ? what do you think about it ?
> 
> cheers


 It's useful for certain populations. People on statins, those who have heart disease, aging/elderly people. Most people don't need it. Fun fact: chicken hearts are rich in coq10.

Most important supplement is consistent, cardiovascular endurance training. No medicine or supplement comes close to the benefits. Coq10 usefulness is limited in younger populations, but it's not a bad supp to have in a heart health stack. Cialis at 2.5-10 mg per week is very effective for heart health as well. Curcumin is great, just make sure you have it with piperine or a form that doesn't require piperine for absorption.


----------



## zariph

How important are rest days when on gear?

Only physical activity I do is going to the gym, so was thinking of doing PPL without rest days, since I dont really do anything whole day other than sitting on my ass. Do you think this is fine/optimal - and what split would you recommend for a young guy in my situation?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> How important are rest days when on gear?
> 
> Only physical activity I do is going to the gym, so was thinking of doing PPL without rest days, since I dont really do anything whole day other than sitting on my ass. Do you think this is fine/optimal - and what split would you recommend for a young guy in my situation?


 Ideally, you rest at least 24 hours between muscle groups. It depends on your training intensity. If you are training with very heavy weights/squats, it can take as long as 5-10 days to fully recover. If you are doing bodybuilding style splits with high reps/high volume, the body will recover much faster.

Rest is AS important as diet and nutrition. The body needs time to go from catabolic to anabolic. You can't constantly keep breaking it down, you must give it a window of time to build new tissue.

I always recommend a powerlifting routine (starting strength) to start off newer trainees. Every man should be able to bench 225, squat 315, and deadlift 405 lbs. This strength base will help you gain mass when you switch to higher volume routine. There are many different style of training and they can all work as long as you stick to the fundamentals (progressive overload, enough calories/protein, and rest time). The routine you do doesn't matter as long as those three thing are accounted for.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What particular genes make a person susceptible? I can find these out via 23andme right?
> 
> I'm going to implement it's use soon, as a precaution, the bottle states to use no more than twice a week? any potential sides to watch out for, should I use it more frequently?
> 
> Would you say Coconut oil/based products is a worthy addition for maximising hair health & quality?
> 
> Any products or diet tips you can recommend to maximise skin health & quality?
> 
> Naso folds a.k.a "smile lines", any idea, how they can be minimised/and or reduced? I notice a lot of BB, who push size, peds and training intensity seem to really pronounce these. e.g Dallas McCarver, Jordan Peters. genetics big factor ofc.


 Too many too count, you can use 23andme+promethease and get a look at some of the genes you may or may not have.

You can use nizoral daily, safely. Sides include dry scalp and irritation/redness. Twice a week is the minimum you should use it.

I'm not a beautician, coconut oil is overrated but i wouldn't know honestly.

Take a good multivitamin with a high quality vitamin E, biotin, zinc, etc. I highly recommend NOW foods "True Balance". It's the best i've seen so far and priced very well.

The skin effect comes from low body fat and chronically elevated levels of androgens which thin the skin and can cause that leathery look. A lot of it is genetic too, but it's most prominent when at very low body fat levels. It shouldn't be a problem for you unless you plan on aiming for freak size one day. You see most often in the big boys and women's bodybuilding division.

Most recreational AAS users won't run into this issue, but you will see guy who push the doses very high who look like they are 50 years old at 23 years of age. I see it all the time.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-"Cialis at 2.5-10 mg per week is very effective for heart health as well" -I m taking 10mg twice a week , I know it's good for blood pressure/prostate health , but is there other benefits for heart health other then lowering blood pressure ?

-What do you think of TB-500 for Left Ventricular Hypertrophy ?

-Fasting 2-3 days while on AAS for health benefits + fat loss ? tips to do it well ? I ve never done it but it's been 2 weeks I have gaz and low stomach bloat even with the use of oral BPC-157 .

Cheers


----------



## CHRIS GW

What do you attribute acne to, while on cycle? Is it purely too much test? I find anything over 500mg per week and my skin just gets too oily and breaks out. Does anything else contribute? Estrogen? Etc? I've also found hormonal fluctuations to cause breakouts, changing injection frequency, but once you settle into a pattern it calms down..


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -"Cialis at 2.5-10 mg per week is very effective for heart health as well" -I m taking 10mg twice a week , I know it's good for blood pressure/prostate health , but is there other benefits for heart health other then lowering blood pressure ?
> 
> -What do you think of TB-500 for Left Ventricular Hypertrophy ?
> 
> -Fasting 2-3 days while on AAS for health benefits + fat loss ? tips to do it well ? I ve never done it but it's been 2 weeks I have gaz and low stomach bloat even with the use of oral BPC-157 .
> 
> Cheers


 Yes, increased nitric oxide keeps the blood vessels dilated and soft. It's been shown to even reverse endothelial damage in diabetic mice and improve alzheimer's symptoms (again in mice). There is good reason to think it will have a positive impact on human heart health and circulation. A little goes a long way, you don't need much.

I'm not at all into peptides really, so my knowledge is limited. This peptide seems to it's best applications for wound repair and healing. If you have any kind of heart condition or issues, regular, cardiovascular exercise, keeping lipids at an optimal levels and supplementing vitamin K2 ( MK7 is my recommendation. )

A person with naturally strong erections and circulation will get strong effects from only 5-10 mg per week total. You can split this to twice a week dosing. The higher you go, the more sides you will get (nasal congestion, flu like symptoms, brain fog, some get mood issues even)

Intermittent Fasting is a great way to help lose fat and maintain a lower body fat level, but not because of some inherent magic. Skipping breakfast lets you eat bigger, more satisfying meals which increases diet compliance and consistency.

If you meant a legit 24 hour fast, i never recommend this, there is zero benefit for performance/health that outweighs the draw backs. Fat loss comes down being a negative energy balance / caloric deficit, There is no magic or trick to this. For instance, DNP, the strongest fat burner we have, only works by making us burn more calories.


----------



## Pancake'

I know you're not the biggest fan of supps, I'm not myself, but would sipping bcaa's in a fasted state provide a small benefit?

I trained fasted today and I'm just much more stronger and focused doing so, big difference in strength. Pb today.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Yes, increased nitric oxide keeps the blood vessels dilated and soft. It's been shown to even reverse endothelial damage in diabetic mice and improve alzheimer's symptoms (again in mice). There is good reason to think it will have a positive impact on human heart health and circulation. A little goes a long way, you don't need much.
> 
> I'm not at all into peptides really, so my knowledge is limited. This peptide seems to it's best applications for wound repair and healing. If you have any kind of heart condition or issues, regular, cardiovascular exercise, keeping lipids at an optimal levels and supplementing vitamin K2 ( MK7 is my recommendation. )
> 
> A person with naturally strong erections and circulation will get strong effects from only 5-10 mg per week total. You can split this to twice a week dosing. The higher you go, the more sides you will get (nasal congestion, flu like symptoms, brain fog, some get mood issues even)
> 
> Intermittent Fasting is a great way to help lose fat and maintain a lower body fat level, but not because of some inherent magic. Skipping breakfast lets you eat bigger, more satisfying meals which increases diet compliance and consistency.
> 
> If you meant a legit 24 hour fast, i never recommend this, there is zero benefit for performance/health that outweighs the draw backs. Fat loss comes down being a negative energy balance / caloric deficit, There is no magic or trick to this. For instance, DNP, the strongest fat burner we have, only works by making us burn more calories.


 Ok , yea I get good effect at 5mg Cialis. so I'll take 5mg twice a week for health . I know that 20mg give me shortness of breath and I get some flu like symptoms too!

I already take MK7  and 3g oil fish since years , and since 2 weeks cardio 5 times a week at the end of my workouts.

TB500 was for my injuries , worked well for my AC joint osteolysis ! but I also read it can 'heal' LVH , hair loss etc.. but unfortunately it increase my RBC so much that I get shortness of breath every time.. Test alone does increase , but when I add TB500 I get out of range in less then a month .

I never did intermittent fasting , I'll make more research and plan before jumping on it.

Cheers


----------



## Baka

@elchapo

-Taking 6.25-12mcg T3 can decrease prolactin levels in men ?

-CBD oil/vaporiser for anxiety disorders useful/recommended?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @elchapo
> 
> -Taking 6.25-12mcg T3 can decrease prolactin levels in men ?
> 
> -CBD oil/vaporiser for anxiety disorders useful/recommended?
> 
> Cheers


 No, unless correcting a thyroid deficiency.

Nah, i always recommend cardio and mma or boxing for anxiety. There is no better treatment.


----------



## Tricky

@El Chapo

I'm sick of the sides of high test, any tren and deca/dbol ect so have decided just to run 250mg test, 50mg proviron

would you recommend either winny or var thrown in periodically for 8 weeks say

is mast a worthwhile addition to run at say 200mg long term alongside the 250mg test


----------



## TrenBalonie

Tricky said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I'm sick of the sides of high test, any tren and deca/dbol ect so have decided just to run 250mg test, 50mg proviron
> 
> would you recommend either winny or var thrown in periodically for 8 weeks say
> 
> is mast a worthwhile addition to run at say 200mg long term alongside the 250mg test


 Using a base of 250 TestE 200-300 MastE and then put on top high anabolics works well.... I am doing it and sides are almost inexistent, once you dial your E2 for cutting and growing you have just to put on your favorite AAS.

Atm I am very happy with:

250 TestE

200-300 TrenE

200-300 MastE

Then I use:

One day Dbol one day Winstrol one day a Sarm (usually LGD) repeat, Sunday off.

If diet and workout are decent you will grow...


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I'm sick of the sides of high test, any tren and deca/dbol ect so have decided just to run 250mg test, 50mg proviron
> 
> would you recommend either winny or var thrown in periodically for 8 weeks say
> 
> is mast a worthwhile addition to run at say 200mg long term alongside the 250mg test


 What's your goal?


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> What's your goal?


 Currently to lose about 15-20lbs.

I was on tren but it killed my sex drive I mean smashed it so I packed it in. Usually I would run a dnp blast for 21-30 days but it's near impossible to get now a days. So I'm looking a long slow cut I guess


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Currently to lose about 15-20lbs.
> 
> I was on tren but it killed my sex drive I mean smashed it so I packed it in. Usually I would run a dnp blast for 21-30 days but it's near impossible to get now a days. So I'm looking a long slow cut I guess


 Test and winstrol will be more than enough for a cut.

Some people like mast for cruising, but it can cause temporary prostate issues and hair thinning in some people. You should try it and see for yourself.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Test and winstrol will be more than enough for a cut.
> 
> Some people like mast for cruising, but it can cause temporary prostate issues and hair thinning in some people. You should try it and see for yourself.


 Thanks il leave it out and stick to the test and prov for cutting add the mast and winny maybe when I'm at a happy bf level.

Regarding t3 should I run it at 50mcg for during of cut say 16 weeks or not bother?


----------



## Redsy

I had hernia op last Friday, nearly read all 192 pages since then, amazing thread, just hope i can remember everything

A few question if i may

I am 44, 82kg, 13-15% bf primarily a cyclist (non competitive) - i want a high power to weight ratio. I have built abt 10kg of muscle in last year on mild AAS cycles. I intend to lose as much bloat/weight as I can and get weight to about 75-77 kg. So I want to lose 5-7kg and maintain as much strength as possible.

1 You have really sold me on test P, tren A, winny as basis for most cycles and it seems to fit my goals really well. I will move onto test P for everything apart from TRT where i guess test E better for half life and stability?

2 Would it be better doing GH - 3 days of 5IU, or 5 days of 3IU Mon - Fri. Longer peroid and less better than more but shorter period. Am doing 3iu GH EOD for 4 jabs, then 2 days off.(as GH is in 4iu doses)

3 Do you not believe in GH desensitising? most protocols are M/W/F or Mon-Fri. Days off to reduce cost but also allow natural production to keep going?

4 I have a non AAS heart rate threshold of 156, (what i can sustain for an hour). When am on AAS even mildish 400mg test e, before my HR get close to this my legs are on fire. My legs give up and certainly cant get to holding my HR threshold for long. Does Test increase production of lactic at lower levels? What is causing my legs to give up before my heart?

5 Will most test p go through a slin pin into VG muscle. Ive got triumph test P. Did VG muscle last jab, whilst i was tensing up and a bit nervous, it went really well. No pip at all and thats first pin there ever.

6 For a cyclist is the real benefit of AAS when you come off cycle on a TRT dose after a cycle?

7 if doing mildish cycles with total grams the same, do you prefer cycle with 2 compounds or 3. Increase the 2 compounds or lessen amounts and include 3.

7 So if you were planning to get me ready to be best cardio/strength wise on my bike i could be by April, what would you do AAS cycle wise? I want to be as strong as possible but obviously cardio is really important. Low overall weight is important when climbing.

Many thanks again, the thread and your input is unlike hardly anything else ive seen on the net. Merry christmas


----------



## CHRIS GW

I've been using t3 at doses between 25-100mcg for about 9 months now, I've decided to come off permanently. I know that tapering the dose down gradually is bro-science and that stopping completely is the way to go...is there anything I should do other than keep calories in check and do a bit of extra cardio? To what extent should I do this though? I obviously don't want to rebound and gain fat...can you give me any advice at all? Thank You.


----------



## Tricky

TrenBalonie said:


> Using a base of 250 TestE 200-300 MastE and then put on top high anabolics works well.... I am doing it and sides are almost inexistent, once you dial your E2 for cutting and growing you have just to put on your favorite AAS.
> 
> Atm I am very happy with:
> 
> 250 TestE
> 
> 200-300 TrenE
> 
> 200-300 MastE
> 
> Then I use:
> 
> One day Dbol one day Winstrol one day a Sarm (usually LGD) repeat, Sunday off.
> 
> If diet and workout are decent you will grow...


 I won't use dbol or tren


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> Test and winstrol will be more than enough for a cut.
> 
> Some people like mast for cruising, but it can cause temporary prostate issues and hair thinning in some people. You should try it and see for yourself.


 Why does tren increase sex drive in some user's and decrease in others?

is it down to dht levels and estrogen control?

can Mast help with this in someway?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Currently to lose about 15-20lbs.
> 
> I was on tren but it killed my sex drive I mean smashed it so I packed it in. Usually I would run a dnp blast for 21-30 days but it's near impossible to get now a days. So I'm looking a long slow cut I guess


 Tren is overrated in my experience. Winstrol or superdrol are more effective for me in terms of aesthetics and strength.

Winstrol sides - some ppl get stiff joints and muscles, but that's it.

Sdrol sides - lethargy and appetite reduction, can help for cutting.

Regular cut for 15 lbs should take 8-12 weeks depending on your caloric deficit. You can run clen, yohimbine hcl or ec stack too.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Thanks il leave it out and stick to the test and prov for cutting add the mast and winny maybe when I'm at a happy bf level.
> 
> Regarding t3 should I run it at 50mcg for during of cut say 16 weeks or not bother?


 50 mcg is fine, i wouldn't go higher as it will increase appetite and make you flat/lower endurance and strength.

It would be smart to add another fat burner like clen, EC stack or yohimbine. T3 isn't as effective alone.


----------



## TrenBalonie

ElChapo said:


> Tren is overrated in my experience. Winstrol or superdrol are more effective for me in terms of aesthetics and strength.
> 
> Winstrol sides - some ppl get stiff joints and muscles, but that's it.
> 
> Sdrol sides - lethargy and appetite reduction, can help for cutting.
> 
> Regular cut for 15 lbs should take 8-12 weeks depending on your caloric deficit. You can run clen, yohimbine hcl or ec stack too.


 Diet is King when cutting, nomatter what.

Tren is ok IMHO, just don't abuse it.

It's a double edge sword, when dieting it will flatten you like a pancake, but can help on shedding fat...

W and Sdrol, aesthetically can give you much more indeed.

Having high DHT and 20ish pg/ml of E2 Is pretty much (hormonally) all we need to shed fat.

But still moderation is the key in everything.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> I had hernia op last Friday, nearly read all 192 pages since then, amazing thread, just hope i can remember everything
> 
> A few question if i may
> 
> I am 44, 82kg, 13-15% bf primarily a cyclist (non competitive) - i want a high power to weight ratio. I have built abt 10kg of muscle in last year on mild AAS cycles. I intend to lose as much bloat/weight as I can and get weight to about 75-77 kg. So I want to lose 5-7kg and maintain as much strength as possible.
> 
> 1 You have really sold me on test P, tren A, winny as basis for most cycles and it seems to fit my goals really well. I will move onto test P for everything apart from TRT where i guess test E better for half life and stability?
> 
> 2 Would it be better doing GH - 3 days of 5IU, or 5 days of 3IU Mon - Fri. Longer peroid and less better than more but shorter period. Am doing 3iu GH EOD for 4 jabs, then 2 days off.(as GH is in 4iu doses)
> 
> 3 Do you not believe in GH desensitising? most protocols are M/W/F or Mon-Fri. Days off to reduce cost but also allow natural production to keep going?
> 
> 4 I have a non AAS heart rate threshold of 156, (what i can sustain for an hour). When am on AAS even mildish 400mg test e, before my HR get close to this my legs are on fire. My legs give up and certainly cant get to holding my HR threshold for long. Does Test increase production of lactic at lower levels? What is causing my legs to give up before my heart?
> 
> 5 Will most test p go through a slin pin into VG muscle. Ive got triumph test P. Did VG muscle last jab, whilst i was tensing up and a bit nervous, it went really well. No pip at all and thats first pin there ever.
> 
> 6 For a cyclist is the real benefit of AAS when you come off cycle on a TRT dose after a cycle?
> 
> 7 if doing mildish cycles with total grams the same, do you prefer cycle with 2 compounds or 3. Increase the 2 compounds or lessen amounts and include 3.
> 
> 7 So if you were planning to get me ready to be best cardio/strength wise on my bike i could be by April, what would you do AAS cycle wise? I want to be as strong as possible but obviously cardio is really important. Low overall weight is important when climbing.
> 
> Many thanks again, the thread and your input is unlike hardly anything else ive seen on the net. Merry christmas


 1. I personally run Test P for my HRT/Cruise. I do Monday/Thursday injection of 100 mg. I feel perfect, energy, mood, libido, erections, strength, etc is optimal. I've experimented with more frequent dosing, this works fine for me. I bloat on Test enanthate even at low doses, independent of water intake, estradiol levels, and body fat percentage. I "feel" test P more in terms of positive side effects and the dryness is a bonus for me as i hate the moon face from enanthate. Enanthate/cypionate are easier to source and can be covered by insurance and prescription. Test prop does not PIP if made correctly, it can't be dosed over 100 mg/mL without guaiacol. (Fun fact: guaiacol is found in whiskey and gives it the smokey flavor)

2. 3 iu 5-7 times a week is more than enough for your goals. More is not better unless you are trying to get huge. Supraphysiological levels of GH impair insulin signalling and sensitivity and increases water retention. Bodybuilders counteract this with the insulin they take with it.

3. De-sensitizing is irrelevant and GH axis is known to bounce back more easily than the HPTA for testosterone.

4. This was one of the reasons i was going to tell you to drop the trenbolone. You don't need it. Test P+Winstrol will do the job. 150-300 mg of each will do the job, play around with the dosing as higher doses of AAS impair muscular and cardiovascular endurance as they reduce the efficiency of the cardiovascular system. Trenbolone KILLS cardiovascular endurance more than any other AAS. Stanazolol (winstrol) and test p can increase it at the right doses. Androgens increase oxygen consumption and increase the "pump" you get from training, this is counter-productive to endurance. You could always focus on strength while maintaining a baseline of endurance and once you drop the compounds, you can keep the muscle/strength but your cardio will come back after your cycle.

5. Yes, test p will go through sq fine. I've used pretty thick oils myself through 29 gauge needles. 29 gauge is painless but injection technique is the most important part of preventing pain when inserting the needle. You want to do it quickly, all the way, and make sure the muscle is relaxed. It takes practice, but done right, you won't even feel a 25 gauge go in.

6. Yes, You will keep most or all of your strength if you train and eat right but cardio will improve once the total AAS dose comes down to TRT levels. You only need to strength train each muscle group once a week to maintain muscle/strength. You can even do all your lifts one day a week.

7. I like keeping it simple, for most people, 2-3 compounds will do the job. It depends on your goals, responses do different androgens, etc. Total dose is more important and so is nutrition/training/rest.

8. I don't know how heavy you are willing to get, but 300-600 mg test p and 300-600 mg winstrol + 500 calorie surplus + add weight to all your lifts each session (2.5-10 lbs). If you want to keep your endurance high and really don't want to gain a ton of weight, you could also go 150/150 test p/winstrol. It really depends on what your goals are. If you stick to low rep range like 3-8 and stay away from accessories and higher reps/volume, it will limit the mass/weight that you gain and keep your strength to weight ratio higher. You should set a goal for all your lifts. Example : Bench 225 x 8 Squat 315 x 8 Deadlift 405 x 8. Something like that.

Merry Christmas, thanks for all the great questions. I had fun thinking about it and answering.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> I've been using t3 at doses between 25-100mcg for about 9 months now, I've decided to come off permanently. I know that tapering the dose down gradually is bro-science and that stopping completely is the way to go...is there anything I should do other than keep calories in check and do a bit of extra cardio? To what extent should I do this though? I obviously don't want to rebound and gain fat...can you give me any advice at all? Thank You.


 Carbs need to be high in order for Leptin levels to not drop. Low carbs = low leptin = low T3 conversion. Carbs are the most important macro nutrient for strength athletes, bodybuilders, etc. Without carbs, mood is lower, metabolism slower, strength and endurance decreased and muscle flatter.

Keep your calories at maintenance or lower, re-test thyroid levels in 8 weeks and see where you are at. Ideally, you would have pre-T3 blood work to see what your levels used to be. TSH should be 0.5-1.5 max and Free T4 over 1.2 or higher. Free T3 3.2 or higher and you're all set.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I won't use dbol or tren


 dbol/tren are prone to causing gyno in sensitive individuals.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> Why does tren increase sex drive in some user's and decrease in others?
> 
> is it down to dht levels and estrogen control?
> 
> can Mast help with this in someway?


 Individual response to the steroid and also testosterone/estradiol levels. Some people are controlling their E2, others don't aromatize as much. I have experimented with tren only which increased libido and lead to stronger erections, but when running with testosterone it can decrease libido for me and erections are not as consistent.

Mast has helped with this in a lot of people including myself. Probably the DHT component.

Trenbolone is an extremely powerful progestin contrary to broscience. It has a stronger binding affinity than natural progesterone for the receptor. This is where the gyno comes from. Women on birth control get swollen/bigger breast as a common side effect due to progestin/estradiol in the drug. People have different genetic sensitivities in their androgen/progestin/estrogen/IGF receptors and different rates of aromatization.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> Diet is King when cutting, nomatter what.
> 
> Tren is ok IMHO, just don't abuse it.
> 
> It's a double edge sword, when dieting it will flatten you like a pancake, but can help on shedding fat...
> 
> W and Sdrol, aesthetically can give you much more indeed.
> 
> Having high DHT and 20ish pg/ml of E2 Is pretty much (hormonally) all we need to shed fat.
> 
> But still moderation is the key in everything.


 Caloric deficit is #1. I haven't used any fat burners to cut or maintain low body fat in years. I feel better this way and transition to maintenance is easier without crashing when coming off stimulants. All you need is that consistent caloric deficit to burn fat.


----------



## Pancake'

What's your stance on nootropics and are they worth bothering with?


----------



## Baka

@elchapo

I love SD gains but I remembered It made me lethargic as hell at 20mg and I had bloated stomach/gas.

How to reduce those sides ? TUDCA for liver but for gas and lethargy ?

Cheers


----------



## TrenBalonie

@El Chapo

So you prefer to have TestP as base of your protocols....

It's very interesting since I remember once I cruised on 100mg TestP MWF and felt really awesome. Was tired from megadosing AAS and needed a break, tbh it was better than just 300 TestE.....

Which therapy you would give to a guy at 220lbs 8% bf to reach a 230lbs lean?

What can we use to maintain a very good aesthetics.

P.S. let's say diet is on point...


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> 1. I personally run Test P for my HRT/Cruise. I do Monday/Thursday injection of 100 mg. I feel perfect, energy, mood, libido, erections, strength, etc is optimal. I've experimented with more frequent dosing, this works fine for me. I bloat on Test enanthate even at low doses, independent of water intake, estradiol levels, and body fat percentage. I "feel" test P more in terms of positive side effects and the dryness is a bonus for me as i hate the moon face from enanthate. Enanthate/cypionate are easier to source and can be covered by insurance and prescription. Test prop does not PIP if made correctly, it can't be dosed over 100 mg/mL without guaiacol. (Fun fact: guaiacol is found in whiskey and gives it the smokey flavor)
> 
> 2. 3 iu 5-7 times a week is more than enough for your goals. More is not better unless you are trying to get huge. Supraphysiological levels of GH impair insulin signalling and sensitivity and increases water retention. Bodybuilders counteract this with the insulin they take with it.
> 
> 3. De-sensitizing is irrelevant and GH axis is known to bounce back more easily than the HPTA for testosterone.
> 
> 4. This was one of the reasons i was going to tell you to drop the trenbolone. You don't need it. Test P+Winstrol will do the job. 150-300 mg of each will do the job, play around with the dosing as higher doses of AAS impair muscular and cardiovascular endurance as they reduce the efficiency of the cardiovascular system. Trenbolone KILLS cardiovascular endurance more than any other AAS. Stanazolol (winstrol) and test p can increase it at the right doses. Androgens increase oxygen consumption and increase the "pump" you get from training, this is counter-productive to endurance. You could always focus on strength while maintaining a baseline of endurance and once you drop the compounds, you can keep the muscle/strength but your cardio will come back after your cycle.
> 
> 5. Yes, test p will go through sq fine. I've used pretty thick oils myself through 29 gauge needles. 29 gauge is painless but injection technique is the most important part of preventing pain when inserting the needle. You want to do it quickly, all the way, and make sure the muscle is relaxed. It takes practice, but done right, you won't even feel a 25 gauge go in.
> 
> 6. Yes, You will keep most or all of your strength if you train and eat right but cardio will improve once the total AAS dose comes down to TRT levels. You only need to strength train each muscle group once a week to maintain muscle/strength. You can even do all your lifts one day a week.
> 
> 7. I like keeping it simple, for most people, 2-3 compounds will do the job. It depends on your goals, responses do different androgens, etc. Total dose is more important and so is nutrition/training/rest.
> 
> 8. I don't know how heavy you are willing to get, but 300-600 mg test p and 300-600 mg winstrol + 500 calorie surplus + add weight to all your lifts each session (2.5-10 lbs). If you want to keep your endurance high and really don't want to gain a ton of weight, you could also go 150/150 test p/winstrol. It really depends on what your goals are. If you stick to low rep range like 3-8 and stay away from accessories and higher reps/volume, it will limit the mass/weight that you gain and keep your strength to weight ratio higher. You should set a goal for all your lifts. Example : Bench 225 x 8 Squat 315 x 8 Deadlift 405 x 8. Something like that.
> 
> Merry Christmas, thanks for all the great questions. I had fun thinking about it and answering.


 Amazing, thanks for great answers, really appreciated.

1 I think that is main issue i get on test E, bloating of tummy and face. I will move onto Test P as main Test, but have a few vials of Test E at minute to use up :whistling: . Seems Test P is better suited to my goals and jabbing doesn't particularly bother me. I am looking for a lightweight. dry physique that is strong with great cardio.

2 Do you think 3-4 times a week of 3IU would be enough. Worked through CTS, was quite severe pins and needles during sleep that has almost disappear now. Its hard to really say the benefit of GH but doing mild cycles i really feel it adds something.

3 Is GH sensitisation a bit of a myth then you think. Plenty recommend M/W/F for this reason but obviously keeps cost down.

4 I don't mind and expect a bit of a drop off of cardio, but no more than ive experienced to date on test only, test/EQ. Sounds like Tren is a non-starter for me if it kills cardio.

5 Relaxing VG muscle is what ive found tricky. Just done a VG jab sat up in bed, which was easier. When i say slin pin, i mean the all in one pins. I previously tried backloading a pin, but couldn't squeeze oil through. granted it was Test E. I'll have another go with Test P.

6 I have a good bit of spare time, so my training and diet is generally pretty good. I train well and hard. So for me, bulk/building cycle (when i can allow cardio to suffer a little), followed by a TRT/cruise period when i want to be the best cardio wise ie cycling season?

So maybe a 8-10 week bulk/building phase 300 test P/ winny 50mg ED

And TRT/cruise peroid of 150mg test p/25mg winny ED - At this level will cardio be like non-AAS levels you think?

At these levels of winny how long can i safely take ?

Winny 25mg - 10-12 weeks?

Winny 50mg - 6 weeks?

Should i take Tudca and NAC, dosages?

I also have been taking proviron 50mg ED, liked the well being and again quite mild but felt it added something. Also like theory it adds more free test to body.

7 I have read alot of endurance atheletes benefit from EQ, i read in this thread you are not a big fan. Do you think adding EQ would benefit in the TRT/Cruise phase or the Build phase? So build maybe Test P/EQ/Winny - 150/150/50 ? or would you just favour a larger test P dose.

8 Am about as heavy as i want to go at 82kg. Really i see myself down at 75kg. Last April i was 72kg and was very lean, had no top half really. I was good on hills. The extra weight and lack of cardio has meant ive suffered on hills where power to weight ratio means the most.

So the key for me is to now drop weight and keep the strength.

I have been strength training mainly. 5x5 routines, with quite alot of accessories, core work. Legs 2/3 x week. Low rep, high weight, plenty of rest between sets up to now. I had planned after operation, getting strength back but then focusing on high rep, lower weight and little rest. You think carry on high weight low rep?

To be honest ive got carried away in gym and cycle focus has faded a little, just been completely loving gym and adding muscle for fun. Once you start adding weight to compound stuff its kind of addictive to me.

At minute in winter i am kind of 90%/10% gym/bike. I will transition to opposite by spring time, 10/90 gym/bike.

I know am a little out of the norm on here with my goals, ie total weight being important, low weight advantageous, cardio very important. So its even harder to plot a route to be the best i can with assistance from the drugs. However, with help you and others have offered am getting closer to the ideal i think.

I just hope winny agrees with me and my joints and doesn't cause issues. Suppose i will find out pretty soon once am back training, cant wait

Sorry for long response, but if a jobs worth doing its worth doing properly. :thumb


----------



## CHRIS GW

El Chapo, how was your tren only run? Doses? Duration? Results? Sides? Would you recommend it? I use very low amounts of test anyway and tolerate tren very well so it's something I'd consider myself. Any advice much appreciated.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your stance on nootropics and are they worth bothering with?


 Not my thing really, i find enough cognitive enhancement from cardio and coffee.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @elchapo
> 
> I love SD gains but I remembered It made me lethargic as hell at 20mg and I had bloated stomach/gas.
> 
> How to reduce those sides ? TUDCA for liver but for gas and lethargy ?
> 
> Cheers


 Yeah, the lethargy is real and i feel it too when i run SD. I just deal with during the cycle, the strength and muscle gains will stay but the lethargy will go away once you stop. TUDCA has worked for people but i wouldn't count on it. Some androgens seem to cause fatigue by messing with cortisol signalling in the body.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> So you prefer to have TestP as base of your protocols....
> 
> It's very interesting since I remember once I cruised on 100mg TestP MWF and felt really awesome. Was tired from megadosing AAS and needed a break, tbh it was better than just 300 TestE.....
> 
> Which therapy you would give to a guy at 220lbs 8% bf to reach a 230lbs lean?
> 
> What can we use to maintain a very good aesthetics.
> 
> P.S. let's say diet is on point...


 Your experience is almost exactly the same as mine. I actually ran 300 mg test p one time and i felt and looked awesome. I was dry, strong and full of energy. I've been hooked ever since. I had a lot of experience with enanthates in all dose ranges and with/without AI, with test P i don't even need AI.

I always recommend test P/Winstrol for strength and aesthetics. Cheap, effective and versatile cycle. Winstrol and test P will keep you dry while you lean bulk. Never go over 12% body fat and you will remain aesthetic year round. Do lean bulks from 8-12%, RINSE/REPEAT until you reach 230 lbs 8%. You want to hit a surplus of 250-300 calories, you will gain weight very slowly but you will likely stay the same body percentage or gain fat very slowly while gaining muscle. It depends on your genetics. I would run +600 mg test p and 350-700 mg winstrol per week. If you are an advanced/elite lifter/bodybuilder or respond better to higher doses, i would bump test P to 1 gram.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Your experience is almost exactly the same as mine. I actually ran 300 mg test p one time and i felt and looked awesome. I was dry, strong and full of energy. I've been hooked ever since. I had a lot of experience with enanthates in all dose ranges and with/without AI, with test P i don't even need AI.
> 
> I always recommend test P/Winstrol for strength and aesthetics. Cheap, effective and versatile cycle. Winstrol and test P will keep you dry while you lean bulk. Never go over 12% body fat and you will remain aesthetic year round. Do lean bulks from 8-12%, RINSE/REPEAT until you reach 230 lbs 8%. You want to hit a surplus of 250-300 calories, you will gain weight very slowly but you will likely stay the same body percentage or gain fat very slowly while gaining muscle. It depends on your genetics. I would run +600 mg test p and 350-700 mg winstrol per week. If you are an advanced/elite lifter/bodybuilder or respond better to higher doses, i would bump test P to 1 gram.


 How much today would you run on 100mg winny a day out of interest?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

About Caber , it decrease prolactin levels but how long does 1 dose of 0.25mg last ? I mean how long is it effective ?


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Amazing, thanks for great answers, really appreciated.
> 
> 1 I think that is main issue i get on test E, bloating of tummy and face. I will move onto Test P as main Test, but have a few vials of Test E at minute to use up :whistling: . Seems Test P is better suited to my goals and jabbing doesn't particularly bother me. I am looking for a lightweight. dry physique that is strong with great cardio.
> 
> 2 Do you think 3-4 times a week of 3IU would be enough. Worked through CTS, was quite severe pins and needles during sleep that has almost disappear now. Its hard to really say the benefit of GH but doing mild cycles i really feel it adds something.
> 
> 3 Is GH sensitisation a bit of a myth then you think. Plenty recommend M/W/F for this reason but obviously keeps cost down.
> 
> 4 I don't mind and expect a bit of a drop off of cardio, but no more than ive experienced to date on test only, test/EQ. Sounds like Tren is a non-starter for me if it kills cardio.
> 
> 5 Relaxing VG muscle is what ive found tricky. Just done a VG jab sat up in bed, which was easier. When i say slin pin, i mean the all in one pins. I previously tried backloading a pin, but couldn't squeeze oil through. granted it was Test E. I'll have another go with Test P.
> 
> 6 I have a good bit of spare time, so my training and diet is generally pretty good. I train well and hard. So for me, bulk/building cycle (when i can allow cardio to suffer a little), followed by a TRT/cruise period when i want to be the best cardio wise ie cycling season?
> 
> So maybe a 8-10 week bulk/building phase 300 test P/ winny 50mg ED
> 
> And TRT/cruise peroid of 150mg test p/25mg winny ED - At this level will cardio be like non-AAS levels you think?
> 
> At these levels of winny how long can i safely take ?
> 
> Winny 25mg - 10-12 weeks?
> 
> Winny 50mg - 6 weeks?
> 
> Should i take Tudca and NAC, dosages?
> 
> I also have been taking proviron 50mg ED, liked the well being and again quite mild but felt it added something. Also like theory it adds more free test to body.
> 
> 7 I have read alot of endurance atheletes benefit from EQ, i read in this thread you are not a big fan. Do you think adding EQ would benefit in the TRT/Cruise phase or the Build phase? So build maybe Test P/EQ/Winny - 150/150/50 ? or would you just favour a larger test P dose.
> 
> 8 Am about as heavy as i want to go at 82kg. Really i see myself down at 75kg. Last April i was 72kg and was very lean, had no top half really. I was good on hills. The extra weight and lack of cardio has meant ive suffered on hills where power to weight ratio means the most.
> 
> So the key for me is to now drop weight and keep the strength.
> 
> I have been strength training mainly. 5x5 routines, with quite alot of accessories, core work. Legs 2/3 x week. Low rep, high weight, plenty of rest between sets up to now. I had planned after operation, getting strength back but then focusing on high rep, lower weight and little rest. You think carry on high weight low rep?
> 
> To be honest ive got carried away in gym and cycle focus has faded a little, just been completely loving gym and adding muscle for fun. Once you start adding weight to compound stuff its kind of addictive to me.
> 
> At minute in winter i am kind of 90%/10% gym/bike. I will transition to opposite by spring time, 10/90 gym/bike.
> 
> I know am a little out of the norm on here with my goals, ie total weight being important, low weight advantageous, cardio very important. So its even harder to plot a route to be the best i can with assistance from the drugs. However, with help you and others have offered am getting closer to the ideal i think.
> 
> I just hope winny agrees with me and my joints and doesn't cause issues. Suppose i will find out pretty soon once am back training, cant wait
> 
> Sorry for long response, but if a jobs worth doing its worth doing properly. :thumb


 1. Pinning test p isn't too bad. You can pin as much as 5 mL per pin if you have to and inject as infrequent as every 3-4 days. I recommend 25 gauge for anything over 1 mL and 29-31 gauge for 1 mL insulin pin injections.

2. GH is not necessary for your goals, like i said, it's mostly beneficial for athletes/recovery at 2-3 IU daily or bodybuilders trying put on slabs of muscle at higher doses combined with insulin. 3 IU 3-4 daily will still give you the GH effects. It's not about serum levels of but gene expression activated.

3. It's bullshit, just like HCG desensitization.

4. Tren is overrated, sides are pretty bad for a lot of people and you don't need it.

5. Test p shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes injections will be harder than others depending on where inside the muscle the needle sits.

6. Yeah, that will work. I would keep doing some cardio even during the bulk so you keep a baseline level of cardiovascular fitness, that way you can go back right away instead of having to rebuild your cardiovascular capacity. I like at least 12 week bulk phases, this gives your body a lot of time to build tissue.

I would not cruise on winstrol as it taxes the liver. 200 mg test p is more than enough for most people, but if you have a lot of mass and strength to maintain you can bump to 300 mg test p, just keep an eye on hematocrit/hemoglobin levels at 300 mg as well as blood pressure.

TUDCA 250-500 mg/NAC 1,000 mg daily

Proviron you can run with test p 200 mg. That will probably feel fantastic for cruising.

7. Larger test P dose, keep it as simple as possible. EQ takes a while to kick in too.

8. Cut out accessories, focus purely on your lifts. Reduce 5 x 5 to 3 x 5 or Reverse pyramid training (my favorite method). 5 sets of 5 is not necessary. 3 will do. Accessories will increase mass and weight. I agree, adding weight is lots of fun. That's why i always recommend everyone do some powerlifting, it keeps things interesting and will help build muscle too.

Yeah, like i said, when you transition to maintenance/cruise, all you need is ONE day a week of lifting to maintain strength and mass.

Not out of the norm at all, functional athleticism is important. Bodybuilders tend to be vain and non-functional with poor cardio, flexibility and speed. I have sacrificed a lot of mass for more endurance and lower body weight and i feel and look healthier. I prefer it to being stronger and bigger.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> How much today would you run on 100mg winny a day out of interest?


 Run what exactly?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> About Caber , it decrease prolactin levels but how long does 1 dose of 0.25mg last ? I mean how long is it effective ?


 Typically about 3 days. It should be dosed twice a week or every 3 to 4 days.


----------



## pma111

How exactly does nizoral.help against hair loss and acne?

And does e2 make one prone to weight gain or purely water retention?


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Run what exactly?


 Stupid autocorrect sorry. Was meant to say tudca.


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

@ElChapo

1) Do I just use HCG the last 4-6 weeks of my cycle? (16 weeks). Or do I keep a "cruise" dose from week 1 and blast the last 4-6 weeks?

2) What do you think about this cycle;

500 Tren E, 500 DHB, 200 Test E & Superdrol kickstart? Tryna "recomp".

3) Appearently DNP is anti-catabolic is this true? I've heard it prevents ATP synthesis, so you cant gain muscle on it either. What if someone used it during PCT with Insulin? Some really good reports on that...

https://northernlifters.com/topic/31-insulin-dnp/

4) Can I run proviron during PCT?


----------



## CHRIS GW

CHRIS GW said:


> El Chapo, how was your tren only run? Doses? Duration? Results? Sides? Would you recommend it? I use very low amounts of test anyway and tolerate tren very well so it's something I'd consider myself. Any advice much appreciated.


 El Chapo, apologies if you just didn't get to this but I think you may have missed it. Very keen to see your response...


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> How exactly does nizoral.help against hair loss and acne?
> 
> And does e2 make one prone to weight gain or purely water retention?


 Nizoral blocks androgenic activity in the scalp. It's an anti-androgen, but it has no system effects like finasteride/dutasteride.

E2 can make you hold water. It can possibly make it easier to gain fat in a caloric surplus.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Stupid autocorrect sorry. Was meant to say tudca.


 250-500 mg.

UDCA also works.


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1) Do I just use HCG the last 4-6 weeks of my cycle? (16 weeks). Or do I keep a "cruise" dose from week 1 and blast the last 4-6 weeks?
> 
> 2) What do you think about this cycle;
> 
> 500 Tren E, 500 DHB, 200 Test E & Superdrol kickstart? Tryna "recomp".
> 
> 3) Appearently DNP is anti-catabolic is this true? I've heard it prevents ATP synthesis, so you cant gain muscle on it either. What if someone used it during PCT with Insulin? Some really good reports on that...
> 
> https://northernlifters.com/topic/31-insulin-dnp/
> 
> 4) Can I run proviron during PCT?


 You want to run 1,000 iu hcg from start to finish of cycle. The point is to keep your balls making test and sperm while you take steroids. If the balls never stopped working, basically you kepe them awake the whole time so they recover much faster.

2. I would run superdrol for the whole cycle and bump test E to 500 mg. That will be one hell of a cycle then. Trust me. Equal test/tren or lower tren is ideal in my experience and its how most pros run it.

3. I would never cut off cycle, that's a good way to lose risking muscle. DNP might be anti catabolic but i wouldnt count on that to perserve muscle gained through AAS once off.

4. I would just run clomid/nolva, nothing else.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> El Chapo, apologies if you just didn't get to this but I think you may have missed it. Very keen to see your response...


 I did miss this post, thank you

I tried 200-300 mg tren ace only mwf, during a cruise. Mood, libido, erections and energy were great. Cardio was only affected slightly towards the end. Strength was great and it kept me fairly dry. It was a fun experiment, but i am prone to tren gyno growth so i don't run it anymore and it's not ideal for athletic performance either.

I would only recommend it as a fun experiment. Long term it wont work well as tren absolutely cooks your HDL levels. After two injections my HDL already dropped by 60%. My BP and heart rate were excellent though as i kept doing cardio.

I dont think results would be the same once you introduce a little test though. Test/E2 seems to exacerbate the bad sides. I really had none besides the gyno and cardio.


----------



## Pancake'

Very drunk, very high, cant feel my face, but you my son are the best thing since sliced bread. Merry xmas


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo looking to reduce dosages for my gear use. I have been training for 4 years, 3 years naturally and past year enhanced. Stats: 6'4 , 224lbs , 12-14%bf , 20 years old. Considering the fact that I have no ambition to ever compete however training is my hobby/lifestyle I will continue to use anabolics. Wanted your opinion on lowering doses and still making progress? Highest I've ran is 1.4grams total (test/winstrol/NPP cycle) which I know is completely unnecessary considering I have only been using steroids for a year and am an intermediate lifter. I'm looking to continue making progress in strength and hypertrophy through my 20's with lower doses. Do you think running 500mg Test E per week and slowly increasing the dose per cycle (e.g extra 100mg per cycle) will allow me to continue making progress or do you think I'll plateau due to much lower blood hormone concentrations? Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo looking to reduce dosages for my gear use. I have been training for 4 years, 3 years naturally and past year enhanced. Stats: 6'4 , 224lbs , 12-14%bf , 20 years old. Considering the fact that I have no ambition to ever compete however training is my hobby/lifestyle I will continue to use anabolics. Wanted your opinion on lowering doses and still making progress? Highest I've ran is 1.4grams total (test/winstrol/NPP cycle) which I know is completely unnecessary considering I have only been using steroids for a year and am an intermediate lifter. I'm looking to continue making progress in strength and hypertrophy through my 20's with lower doses. Do you think running 500mg Test E per week and slowly increasing the dose per cycle (e.g extra 100mg per cycle) will allow me to continue making progress or do you think I'll plateau due to much lower blood hormone concentrations? Thanks.


 Honestly, it's going to come down to individual responses. Some guys respond well to lower doses, other's just need more. The important part is to know wether it's your dose holding your back or poor diet and training. 1.4 grams total is not necessarily over the top. Once you're an intermediate/advanced/elite trainee, i see no issue with a base of 1 gram of testosterone or +1 g of total AAS, it's just bad thing when people are using it as a crutch for poor nutrition/training or running these higher doses for a very long time while not taking care of their health (drinking, drugs, not doing cardio). I would suggest you do some cardio at least 3 times a week, always make sure your BP is under 150/100 mmhg, and hematocrit is under 52% (donate if it's higher). You can stay on your current dosage, just make sure you are eating enough food and increasing your weight and reps to support the growth. A LOT of people lie about how much AAS they take. 500 mg is a good beginner dose to get your feet wet and learn your responses, get used to pinning, etc.

These instagram stars you see, ripped/jacked/shredded at 21 years old have been juicing hard since their teen years. They want you to think they are natty or "only using 500 mg test".


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, it's going to come down to individual responses. Some guys respond well to lower doses, other's just need more. The important part is to know wether it's your dose holding your back or poor diet and training. 1.4 grams total is not necessarily over the top. Once you're an intermediate/advanced/elite trainee, i see no issue with a base of 1 gram of testosterone or +1 g of total AAS, it's just bad thing when people are using it as a crutch for poor nutrition/training or running these higher doses for a very long time while not taking care of their health (drinking, drugs, not doing cardio). I would suggest you do some cardio at least 3 times a week, always make sure your BP is under 150/100 mmhg, and hematocrit is under 52% (donate if it's higher). You can stay on your current dosage, just make sure you are eating enough food and increasing your weight and reps to support the growth. A LOT of people lie about how much AAS they take. 500 mg is a good beginner dose to get your feet wet and learn your responses, get used to pinning, etc.
> 
> These instagram stars you see, ripped/jacked/shredded at 21 years old have been juicing hard since their teen years. They want you to think they are natty or "only using 500 mg test".


 Thanks for the response, I gathered that most people lie about there doses not long after beginning AAS use. I do understand that diet and training are the key elements to hypertrophy and as I'm a student (+ only work 20 hours weekly) I have a lot of time on my hands allowing me to put maximum effort into these aspects. I do feel that over time I will have to increase doses to keep making progress which is why I thought taking a step back early will benefit me in the long run. If I kept at 1.4g/week now then when I'm mid-late 20's I'll end up using 3/4 grams weekly which seems excessive for a non-competitive bodybuilder. Out of interest do you think the likes of Calum Von Moger, Bradley Martyn, Simeon Panda etc (non-competitive lifters) are all running several grams of anabolics for the best part of the year to keep making progress or do you reckon these guys are doing it on <2g per week? I'm certain any competitive bodybuilder will be pushing the doses as they're in competition with other guys who will be doing the same but don't know whether these recreational lifters do the same.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Thanks for the response, I gathered that most people lie about there doses not long after beginning AAS use. I do understand that diet and training are the key elements to hypertrophy and as I'm a student (+ only work 20 hours weekly) I have a lot of time on my hands allowing me to put maximum effort into these aspects. I do feel that over time I will have to increase doses to keep making progress which is why I thought taking a step back early will benefit me in the long run. If I kept at 1.4g/week now then when I'm mid-late 20's I'll end up using 3/4 grams weekly which seems excessive for a non-competitive bodybuilder. Out of interest do you think the likes of Calum Von Moger, Bradley Martyn, Simeon Panda etc (non-competitive lifters) are all running several grams of anabolics for the best part of the year to keep making progress or do you reckon these guys are doing it on <2g per week? I'm certain any competitive bodybuilder will be pushing the doses as they're in competition with other guys who will be doing the same but don't know whether these recreational lifters do the same.


 People lie about their doses or natty status because they don't want people to discount the hard work and time they put in to the drugs. Any fitness celebrity like the ones you mentions have a 90% running +1 gram of AAS. They might cruise on less though.

Your body doesn't just get used to the same dosage like you do with caffeine. It's not a drug like heroin, cocaine or alcohol where you need more and more to get the same effect after a while. The whole "receptors" BS is broscience. If you ran 1 gram of test prop for 10 years straight, but in those 10 years you were eating a caloric surplus and increasing your weight and reps on all your movements, you would continue to see progression albeit limited to your genetics of course, and at a certain point, insulin/GH is need to get the freakier level of size. People get impatient with the amout of muscle they put on and think they need to increase their dosage, true muscle tissue takes time to build. The initial weight gain in the first few weeks of a cycle is due to glycogen, nitrogen and sarcoplasmic growth. The true lean tissue gain is slower than that, especially for someone past the beginner stage.

Of course, i recommend taking as little as you have to for your goals, but that will come down to your goals, genetics and response to AAS. You can try the 500 mg and see how that treats you.


----------



## TrenBalonie

Who knows what a professional use....

But for sure their dedication is very high, drugs alone don't create a champion.

I would abuse Primobolan, HGH and Insulin (just to have more igf). But who has all this money lol!!!

I think that nothing can beat these three hormones for an "healthy" bb approach.


----------



## SoberHans

El Chapo hope you and your family had a great Christmas.

Thinking of trying clen 4 days on 3 off at a maximum dose of up to 60mcg per day on my cutting cycle.

How dangerous would this be to the heart on an average person?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> El Chapo hope you and your family had a great Christmas.
> 
> Thinking of trying clen 4 days on 3 off at a maximum dose of up to 60mcg per day on my cutting cycle.
> 
> How dangerous would this be to the heart on an average person?
> 
> Thanks


 We did, thank you and merry christmas/Happy new year.

What's your experience with stimulants? Coffee, etc? If you have a high tolerance for stims and/or no anxiety issues, you can go straight to +60 mcg. No need to cycle on/off, you can take it 7 days straight.

Acute increases in stress/BP and work load won't hurt the heart but if you take this year round, you will definitely be at an increased risk.

Clenbuterol increases your caloric expenditure by about 10%. So someone who's maintenance is 2,000, might be burn an extra 200 daily. This can easily by neutralized by a cookie, goes to show how important calorie control is. 200 calories is also equivalent to some light/moderate cardio.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> We did, thank you and merry christmas/Happy new year.
> 
> What's your experience with stimulants? Coffee, etc? If you have a high tolerance for stims and/or no anxiety issues, you can go straight to +60 mcg. No need to cycle on/off, you can take it 7 days straight.
> 
> Acute increases in stress/BP and work load won't hurt the heart but if you take this year round, you will definitely be at an increased risk.
> 
> Clenbuterol increases your caloric expenditure by about 10%. So someone who's maintenance is 2,000, might be burn an extra 200 daily. This can easily by neutralized by a cookie, goes to show how important calorie control is. 200 calories is also equivalent to some light/moderate cardio.


 I am quite sensitive to stimulants which is why I want to limit the dosage to 60 maximum.

I'm doing my first cut ever and around 18 % now but when the cut is finished wanna be as low as possible. Just gonna be a one off taking stimulants as gonna lean bulk properly after this cycle and cut down once bodyfat gets to 15% or so as you recommend.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> I am quite sensitive to stimulants which is why I want to limit the dosage to 60 maximum.
> 
> I'm doing my first cut ever and around 18 % now but when the cut is finished wanna be as low as possible. Just gonna be a one off taking stimulants as gonna lean bulk properly after this cycle and cut down once bodyfat gets to 15% or so as you recommend.


 Start at 40 mcg for at least a week, then bump it up if you don't get shakes and anxiety.

Most importantly stick to a strict 500 calorie deficit for 1 lbs of fat loss per week or 1,000 calorie deficit for 2 lbs fat loss per week. The clen will help you lose extra, maybe half a pound of fat more per week which adds up.

If you cut for 12 weeks you will probably hit something like 8-12% depending on how high your deficit is and how consistent you are with it.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Low dose DMAA to avoid crash?

Last time I took DMAA it was a pre workout with 500mg caffein , 65mg DMAA , yohimbe and other stuff ; felt great and nervous too but had a crash that lasted 2-3 days I had more anxiety then normally .

I know it's not a substance to play with , I didn't take it since.. I used to love Pharma ephedrine but it made me more anxious and irritable and I had heart palpitations too so I stopped completely 1 year ago.

DMAA isnt as strong but I don't feel jittery on it , but it had a crash like ephedrine.

Would 20-30mg be enough to feel it without having a crash? 30mg + 250mg caffein

cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Low dose DMAA to avoid crash?
> 
> Last time I took DMAA it was a pre workout with 500mg caffein , 65mg DMAA , yohimbe and other stuff ; felt great and nervous too but had a crash that lasted 2-3 days I had more anxiety then normally .
> 
> I know it's not a substance to play with , I didn't take it since.. I used to love Pharma ephedrine but it made me more anxious and irritable and I had heart palpitations too so I stopped completely 1 year ago.
> 
> DMAA isnt as strong but I don't feel jittery on it , but it had a crash like ephedrine.
> 
> Would 20-30mg be enough to feel it without having a crash? 30mg + 250mg caffein
> 
> cheers


 Cold turkey is fine, you need to just let your body reset adenosine receptors/etc. A crash is part of the process. I suggest just going back to regular coffee or black/gree tea once you finish a course of stimulants.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo

How do you rate EQ and what dosages you find more effective?


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How do you rate EQ and what dosages you find more effective?


 600 mg-1 gram, takes a while to kick in. It's a good base of a cycle like testosterone. Good for dry mass, anecdotally good for cardiovascular endurance. Some people use it in place of testosterone as a cycle base.


----------



## zariph

Hey!
Hope you have time to answer got a few nutrition questions.

1. Do you suggest high carbs or higher fats for adding muscle? Also what amount of protein you suggest?
2. Hitting gym first thing in the morning - for bulding muscle, would it be better to have have a shake+some fruits pre compared to training fasted and just adding the carbs+protein later in the day so macros are the same? Also perfomance will be the same, so just thinking of the actual musclebuilding?

3. Same macro split on and off cycle?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey!
> Hope you have time to answer got a few nutrition questions.
> 
> 1. Do you suggest high carbs or higher fats for adding muscle? Also what amount of protein you suggest?
> 2. Hitting gym first thing in the morning - for bulding muscle, would it be better to have have a shake+some fruits pre compared to training fasted and just adding the carbs+protein later in the day so macros are the same? Also perfomance will be the same, so just thinking of the actual musclebuilding?
> 
> 3. Same macro split on and off cycle?


 Higher carbs for cutting and bulking. Fats are the least useful macro nutrient High carbs will keep your muscles full, strong and your mood and appetite optimal. Carbs stimulate the release of leptin which keeps you satisfied, but they are also easy to eat in high quantities when you need them for bulking. Fat is only good for adding flavor.

Protein: Bulking: At least 0.8 gram per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight) Cutting: At least 1 gram per lbs of lean body mass.

Macros i always suggest: Minimum protein needed, the rest carbs. Lower fat. Caloric surplus or deficit.

Same split on or off cycle.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Higher carbs for cutting and bulking. Fats are the least useful macro nutrient High carbs will keep your muscles full, strong and your mood and appetite optimal. Carbs stimulate the release of leptin which keeps you satisfied, but they are also easy to eat in high quantities when you need them for bulking. Fat is only good for adding flavor.
> 
> Protein: Bulking: At least 0.8 gram per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight) Cutting: At least 1 gram per lbs of lean body mass.
> 
> Macros i always suggest: Minimum protein needed, the rest carbs. Lower fat. Caloric surplus or deficit.
> 
> Same split on or off cycle.


 Appreciate the answer! What about the second question? Is it worth just getting some carbs+protein before session if perfomance is the same anyway? Or will it be more optimal for musclegain compared to just having those macros later in the day?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Appreciate the answer! What about the second question? Is it worth just getting some carbs+protein before session if perfomance is the same anyway? Or will it be more optimal for musclegain compared to just having those macros later in the day?


 Sorry i missed that.

The meal timing isn't crazy important. Carbs can enhance pre-workout performance, but some people train just as well fasted ( i recommend BCAA if you do this). The benefit of fasted training is that it makes it easier to eat less calories but also gives you an adrenaline boost when you train in the fasted stated. It takes getting used to though at first. The only meal timing i would really worry about it post-workout, this is the best time to get most of your carbs. 20-40 grams protein is more than enough.

In terms of muscle building, just focus on your caloric surplus and increasing your reps/weight on all your exercises and you will build muscle. Meal timing is mostly irrelevant.


----------



## Pancake'

What's the minimum dose of cialis for some good pumps? could I get away with 5-10mg? you might wonder why, I could give a sh*t about a pump, but my physique gets very hard & dense, I love that wellbeing of being tight.

Can I use alcohol to become dryer? hard physique etc. I recall levrone used to apparently drink vodka and caffeine in a run up to a show. Awesome bodybuilder a true freak.

How deadly is moderate-high dose steroid use, combined with sparingly use of cocaine? recreational drugs in general, but specifically cocaine.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Sorry i missed that.
> 
> The meal timing isn't crazy important. Carbs can enhance pre-workout performance, but some people train just as well fasted ( i recommend BCAA if you do this). The benefit of fasted training is that it makes it easier to eat less calories but also gives you an adrenaline boost when you train in the fasted stated. It takes getting used to though at first. The only meal timing i would really worry about it post-workout, this is the best time to get most of your carbs. 20-40 grams protein is more than enough.
> 
> In terms of muscle building, just focus on your caloric surplus and increasing your reps/weight on all your exercises and you will build muscle. Meal timing is mostly irrelevant.


 Excellent!

I've always trained on empty stomach first thing in the morning, so the reason I asked was if "triggering" protein synthethis + some carbs for anticatabolic benifits, would be a thing? Otherwise my first meal will be 3-4hours after wakening+traininng?

Sorry its hard for me to explain, my english isnt that good.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Sorry i missed that.
> 
> The meal timing isn't crazy important. Carbs can enhance pre-workout performance, but some people train just as well fasted ( i recommend BCAA if you do this). The benefit of fasted training is that it makes it easier to eat less calories but also gives you an adrenaline boost when you train in the fasted stated. It takes getting used to though at first. The only meal timing i would really worry about it post-workout, this is the best time to get most of your carbs. 20-40 grams protein is more than enough.
> 
> In terms of muscle building, just focus on your caloric surplus and increasing your reps/weight on all your exercises and you will build muscle. Meal timing is mostly irrelevant.


 This is me

I am at my strongest and most assertive in a fasted state. will supplement some bcaa. Thanks for touching upon this.


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

@ElChapo

Hey broooo, its meeee

Basically I'm young, really young. I'm 23 years old give or take 5 years.

I ran an NPP and Test E cycle a while back, and got bloodwork after a standard Nolva PCT.

I didnt get my normal test levels odly, but my free test came out to 16.5

What does this translate to approximately in Normal test? I might start on self-perscribed TRT if I have to.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

MDMA and BPC-157 for neuroprotectiv effects ?

I don't know if you know much about this drug , but it empty your serotonin levels after taking it and make you depressed/more anxious for some days after.

I like taking it once a year , I know some supplements can help recover/protect but lately I've heard about taking BPC-157 as a protection ? I m taking BPC 157 for my digestive


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey broooo, its meeee
> 
> Basically I'm young, really young. I'm 23 years old give or take 5 years.
> 
> I ran an NPP and Test E cycle a while back, and got bloodwork after a standard Nolva PCT.
> 
> I didnt get my normal test levels odly, but my free test came out to 16.5
> 
> What does this translate to approximately in Normal test? I might start on self-perscribed TRT if I have to.


 Slightly below the "normal/healthy" level for your age. What time was the blood drawn for the testosterone test? It is highest in the early morning, so ideally you will get blood drawn around 7-9 AM while fasted. No food, water, tea or coffee.

It's not a level you would take TRT for, because with lifestyle changes you can easily get your levels to optimal. How is your sleep, exercise? Do you get sunlight or take vitamin D? Zinc will increase levels in many people.

BTW, for PCT, clomiphene is what works best.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> MDMA and c for neuroprotectiv effects ?
> 
> I don't know if you know much about this drug , but it empty your serotonin levels after taking it and make you depressed/more anxious for some days after.
> 
> I like taking it once a year , I know some supplements can help recover/protect but lately I've heard about taking BPC-157 as a protection ? I m taking BPC 157 for my digestive


 500 mg 5-htp and 5 grams of mucuna pruriens.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Excellent!
> 
> I've always trained on empty stomach first thing in the morning, so the reason I asked was if "triggering" protein synthethis + some carbs for anticatabolic benifits, would be a thing? Otherwise my first meal will be 3-4hours after wakening+traininng?
> 
> Sorry its hard for me to explain, my english isnt that good.


 I would take BCAA before fasted training. 15 grams or 1 tablespoon for best results. You will find recovery is better. Then eat a meal immediately afterwards. If you can't get to a meal after training, take another tablespoon of BCAA.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's the minimum dose of cialis for some good pumps? could I get away with 5-10mg? you might wonder why, I could give a sh*t about a pump, but my physique gets very hard & dense, I love that wellbeing of being tight.
> 
> Can I use alcohol to become dryer? hard physique etc. I recall levrone used to apparently drink vodka and caffeine in a run up to a show. Awesome bodybuilder a true freak.
> 
> How deadly is moderate-high dose steroid use, combined with sparingly use of cocaine? recreational drugs in general, but specifically cocaine.


 5-10 mg E3D should do the trick but i haven't noticed any overt effect on pump from cialis and i've used American FDA pharma grade.

Anecdotally this happen, but i'm not aware of dosing and no experience with it. I've heard one shot of vodka or rum thrown around or a small glass of dry red wine, but honestly, if you wanna be really dry and hard, get down to 6-8% body fat. To getting even dryer and harder, use winstrol and only test prop(no long ester) at 300 mg or under.

Steroids+cocaine is a heart attack stack. This is likely the reason the boy Zyzz passed at his young age. They claim heart defect because cocaine/clen/tren induced heart attack isn't a pretty way to go. I am completely against recreational drugs while cycling, alcohol will further tax the liver and impair estrogen metabolism, cocaine can increase risk of stroke/heart attack, especially if BP is already high. Marijuana isn't really a problem but i would avoid smoking it and cigarettes regularly for heart and lung health.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I would take BCAA before fasted training. 15 grams or 1 tablespoon for best results. You will find recovery is better. Then eat a meal immediately afterwards. If you can't get to a meal after training, take another tablespoon of BCAA.


 Thanks but if perfomance is the same, would it then be more optimal to get carbs and protein before the session because of proetin syntethis etc?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> 5-10 mg E3D should do the trick but i haven't noticed any overt effect on pump from cialis and i've used American FDA pharma grade.
> 
> Anecdotally this happen, but i'm not aware of dosing and no experience with it. I've heard one shot of vodka or rum thrown around or a small glass of dry red wine, but honestly, if you wanna be really dry and hard, get down to 6-8% body fat. To getting even dryer and harder than, use winstrol and only test prop(no long ester) at 300 mg or under.
> 
> *Steroids+cocaine is a heart attack stack. This is likely the reason the boy Zyzz passed at his young age. They claim heart defect because cocaine/clen/tren induced heart attack isn't a pretty way to go. I am completely against recreational drugs while cycling, alcohol will further tax the liver and impair estrogen metabolism, cocaine can increase risk of stroke/heart attack, especially if BP is already high. Marijuana isn't really a problem but i would avoid smoking it and cigarettes regularly for heart and lung health.*


 How come the combo of aas and coke is so bad?

I've had a few nights of both when on cycle or trt, I usually take 20mg cialis on the day of it, and run Tudca, mac etc (strom support max) when on cycle too.

Surely it would be negligible effects if limited, although clearly either individually or combined should be a no no if health was taken as priority (I know we all want to be healthy but also have the odd night on the sauce or gear)

Thanks in advance for the reply.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thanks but if perfomance is the same, would it then be more optimal to get carbs and protein before the session because of proetin syntethis etc?


 It's not very important honestly. For bulking, i like to eat break fast and i don't fast at all since getting all my calories is tough. When cutting, fasting it makes it easier to eat less calories. It depends on your goals and situation. Some people have better training sessions fasted, some don't do so well. It's an individual thing. End of the day, it really doesn't matter as long as you get the protein/calories you need at some point in the day. Meal timing is not THAT important.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> How come the combo of aas and coke is so bad?
> 
> I've had a few nights of both when on cycle or trt, I usually take 20mg cialis on the day of it, and run Tudca, mac etc (strom support max) when on cycle too.
> 
> Surely it would be negligible effects if limited, although clearly either individually or combined should be a no no if health was taken as priority (I know we all want to be healthy but also have the odd night on the sauce or gear)
> 
> Thanks in advance for the reply.


 AAS and cocaine can stress the heart. Cocaine is a powerful stimulant.

I just don't recommend it. You can drink a pint of vodka a day and take a handful of winstrol and anadrol tabs, it's your body. Will you have a heart attack or stroke? probably not.


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

ElChapo said:


> Slightly below the "normal/healthy" level for your age. What time was the blood drawn for the testosterone test? It is highest in the early morning, so ideally you will get blood drawn around 7-9 AM while fasted. No food, water, tea or coffee.
> 
> It's not a level you would take TRT for, because with lifestyle changes you can easily get your levels to optimal. How is your sleep, exercise? Do you get sunlight or take vitamin D? Zinc will increase levels in many people.
> 
> BTW, for PCT, clomiphene is what works best.


 Thats bro.

I took the bloodtest at exactly 1:30PM

Also, what is the "normal range", for my age?


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> Thats bro.
> 
> I took the bloodtest at exactly 1:30PM
> 
> Also, what is the "normal range", for my age?


 Yeah, so you might actually be at a good level.

Re-test it in the morning between 7-9 AM, fasted. Your levels are probably good or normal.

Normal or optimal: In your units, *17.3-31.2 * nmol/L or in American Units 500-900 ng/dL.


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, so you might actually be at a good level.
> 
> Re-test it in the morning between 7-9 AM, fasted. Your levels are probably good or normal.
> 
> Normal or optimal: In your units, *17.3-31.2 * nmol/L or in American Units 500-900 ng/dL.


 Thanks, how much higher do yoy reckon it would be at 8AM?

Also, is 75IU HMG ED for 2 weeks right before PCT a good protocol?


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> Thanks, how much higher do yoy reckon it would be at 8AM?
> 
> Also, is 75IU HMG ED for 2 weeks right before PCT a good protocol?


 Can be as much as 30% more.

It won't do much for you. You should run HCG or HMG DURING the cycle. This keeps the balls working the whole time, that way they are easier to get back to normal function.


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

ElChapo said:


> Can be as much as 30% more.
> 
> It won't do much for you. You should run HCG or HMG DURING the cycle. This keeps the balls working the whole time, that way they are easier to get back to normal function.


 What I'm doing is,

250IU HCG 2TW during cycle.

While longer esters clear, and I'm on shorter ones, Last 4 weeks of cycle I'm blasting HCG to 1750IU 2TW.

Last 2 weeks of cycle 75IU HMG added ED with the HCG.

Or did you mean keep HMG during the WHOLE cycle and not just the end?


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> What I'm doing is,
> 
> 250IU HCG 2TW during cycle.
> 
> While longer esters clear, and I'm on shorter ones, Last 4 weeks of cycle I'm blasting HCG to 1750IU 2TW.
> 
> Last 2 weeks of cycle 75IU HMG added ED with the HCG.
> 
> Or did you mean keep HMG during the WHOLE cycle and not just the end?


 Whole cycle, from start to finish.


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

ElChapo said:


> Whole cycle, from start to finish.


 What dose do you reccomend?


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> What dose do you reccomend?


 HCG : 1,000-1,500 IU per week

HMG : 75-150 IU per week

Split 2-3 times per week. Ideally x 3 per week or monday, wednesday, friday.

Intramuscular injection will spike higher and faster. More bioavailability too. You can get into the IM with insulin pins as long as you are lean (<12%) via quads or delts with a 1/2 inch needle.


----------



## m575

@ElChapo just to tag on to that....what's the truth behind not running hcg for too long due to desensitisation?

Just thinking what you would recommend for somebody that wasn't planning a standard 12 week cycle And going a lot longer.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> @ElChapo just to tag on to that....what's the truth behind not running hcg for too long due to desensitisation?
> 
> Just thinking what you would recommend for somebody that wasn't planning a standard 12 week cycle And going a lot longer.


 Run it forever if you care about fertility.

Do your balls desensitize to your own LH/FSH? It's bullshit.

1,000-1,500 as soon as you can after starting any cycle, cruise or HRT IF you care about fertility. Other wise, save your time and money.


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> Run it forever if you care about fertility.
> 
> Do your balls desensitize to your own LH/FSH? It's bullshit.
> 
> 1,000-1,500 as soon as you can after starting any cycle, cruise or HRT IF you care about fertility. Other wise, save your time and money.


 Any idea where the desensitise myth actually comes from?

I see so many people quote it I'm just wondering where it's come from. Is there any studies done on it or anything?


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Any idea where the desensitise myth actually comes from?
> 
> I see so many people quote it I'm just wondering where it's come from. Is there any studies done on it or anything?


 Bro science spawns from thin air. People like to say things they come up with to sound smart maybe, idk. It's ridiculous.

No studies, logic or anything to even suggest this. Like i said, with a basic understanding of natural physiology, there's no mechanism by which leydig and sertolli cells would build a resistance to HCG. It's not caffeine...


----------



## Redsy

Hope you had a great Christmas @El ChapoChapo and wishing you a happy new year a little ahead of time. Many thanks for previous advice, been really helpful.

So here's a couple of questions, one a bit unusual another bit more straight forward for you.

1 So I bought a glucose meter as am using GH and wanted to keep and eye on it. However, it also measures HCT. I believe NHS use these meters so should be pretty accurate.

https://www.glucorx.co.uk/our-products/glucorx-hct-meter/

Since my hernia operation 2weeks ago been using and my BG has been fine. However HCT was down at 37% intially but now 40%.

I know HCT was over 50% from a GP blood test 8weeks ago and never given blood. So am guessing it's due to general anaesthetic and drugs whilst operating. Would you concour? What would it be out of interest?

2 am sticking to maintenance cals at minute as no exercising whilst I recover and trying to maintain as much as possible. Am running 200mg test/week and 25mg proviron.

However, plan on when back exercising, probably 4weeks doing a cut. Want to get under 10% bf from 15%. Would like to lose 4-6kg.

Am going to use some drugs to assist. Fancy giving me some advice on best ways to use. I can't get DNP. I have some ephedrine which seems to agree with me. Bought some Yohimbine and clen to potentially try, never used either before.

As mentioned previously am pretty good diet/training wise. I do well on low carb/keto, use carbs with intense exercise. Suppose am kind of carb cycling, fasted training rides etc.

So good cycle of dieting drugs please?

And should I resist dieting/cutting until am able to train?


----------



## Intel.Imperitive

ElChapo said:


> HCG : 1,000-1,500 IU per week
> 
> HMG : 75-150 IU per week
> 
> Split 2-3 times per week. Ideally x 3 per week or monday, wednesday, friday.
> 
> Intramuscular injection will spike higher and faster. More bioavailability too. You can get into the IM with insulin pins as long as you are lean (<12%) via quads or delts with a 1/2 inch needle.


 HMG is pricey, if funds only allow me the 2 week blast is that less than optimal but still helpful in anyway?


----------



## Pancake'

Prostate management. let's say hypothetically I run some high dose test cycles and my prostate enlarges, psa level rises, I just run into prostate related issues. How can I treat this and if I came off a cycle, down to 125-200mg Test, should my prostate then reduce in size?

What do you usually recommend for treating high BP and raised bad cholesterol? I know cardio, I'm referring more towards diet and possibly any medication or supp aids.

If haemocrit, RBC count is still a high reading after donating, anything else you would suggest doing to lower?

What's your stance on the vertical diet?

I like red meat and tuna, how much would you limit yourself to consuming on a weekly basis? I average 10-20lbs of steak a week.

Would you say for true natural lifters, a 315lb bench is perhaps not a feat of strength many drug free lifters can achieve? I'm suspicious of most 'naturals' hitting 315 for reps.

What do you feel is the most important fight style in terms of MMA? if you could specialise if you like in one of Wrestling/grappling, BJJ, Striking. what would it be? granted all areas need to be covered. I'm asking, what do you feel is the big one? would you rather be better at wrestling than stand up for instance.

Thanks man, I can never really think of much to ask, when you're back.


----------



## pma111

With regards to e2... when would be a good time to take a test to see what impact ai is having on levels? As there seems to be a peak which presumably would be the best window to test. And like your note above is best time fasted AM? When is the ai peak out of interest,e.g 24 hours after intake?

If someone had crashed their e2 (adex) typically how long would it take to bump back up to baseline? Assuming they dont take an additional dose in between.

And is it possible to detail at what level does e2 start to supress hpta? Or is everyone different.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Hope you had a great Christmas @El ChapoChapo and wishing you a happy new year a little ahead of time. Many thanks for previous advice, been really helpful.
> 
> So here's a couple of questions, one a bit unusual another bit more straight forward for you.
> 
> 1 So I bought a glucose meter as am using GH and wanted to keep and eye on it. However, it also measures HCT. I believe NHS use these meters so should be pretty accurate.
> 
> https://www.glucorx.co.uk/our-products/glucorx-hct-meter/
> 
> Since my hernia operation 2weeks ago been using and my BG has been fine. However HCT was down at 37% intially but now 40%.
> 
> I know HCT was over 50% from a GP blood test 8weeks ago and never given blood. So am guessing it's due to general anaesthetic and drugs whilst operating. Would you concour? What would it be out of interest?
> 
> 2 am sticking to maintenance cals at minute as no exercising whilst I recover and trying to maintain as much as possible. Am running 200mg test/week and 25mg proviron.
> 
> However, plan on when back exercising, probably 4weeks doing a cut. Want to get under 10% bf from 15%. Would like to lose 4-6kg.
> 
> Am going to use some drugs to assist. Fancy giving me some advice on best ways to use. I can't get DNP. I have some ephedrine which seems to agree with me. Bought some Yohimbine and clen to potentially try, never used either before.
> 
> As mentioned previously am pretty good diet/training wise. I do well on low carb/keto, use carbs with intense exercise. Suppose am kind of carb cycling, fasted training rides etc.
> 
> So good cycle of dieting drugs please?
> 
> And should I resist dieting/cutting until am able to train?


 HCT will drop a good amount post-surgery due to blood lost during the procedure. I'm not sure how accurate the monitor you have is, it would get it looked at by a lab. Those levels are borderline anemic.

I would stick to their Ephedrine+caffeine or clen only. I would not do an ECY stack unless you have experience with each stim on it's own or a high tolerance for stimulants. You can run one tab of ephedrine(20 mg)+one tab of caffeine(200 mg) in the morning and again in the afternoon or clenbuterol 60-100 mcg daily.

Do you have yohimbe or yohimbine HCl? Yohimbine HCL at 14-20 mg will also do the job on it's own or stacked with caffeine at 200 mg. It can also increase libido and erection hardness.

Don't cut until you can train. Caloric deficit plus lack of activity = fat AND muscle loss. You need resistance training to preserve your muscle mass.

For cutting use any of the stack i mentioned above, and i like test prop 300 mg+winstrol 50 mg daily if tabs or injectable 50 mg x 3 per week. You will be dry, strong and full of energy. 500-1000 calorie deficit depending on how fast you wanna cut and cardio 6-7 days a week, 30 minutes low-moderate intensity (treadmill 3-6 mph).

You will lose 1-2.5 lbs of pure fat PER WEEK with this method. You should lose no muscle.

Thank you for the holiday wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy New Years


----------



## ElChapo

Intel.Imperitive said:


> HMG is pricey, if funds only allow me the 2 week blast is that less than optimal but still helpful in anyway?


 It's not necessary unless you are having fertility issues that HCG is not addressing. Just run 500 IU HCG Monday, Wed, Fri from start to finish of cycle next time.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Prostate management. let's say hypothetically I run some high dose test cycles and my prostate enlarges, psa level rises, I just run into prostate related issues. How can I treat this and if I came off a cycle, down to 125-200mg Test, should my prostate then reduce in size?
> 
> What do you usually recommend for treating high BP and raised bad cholesterol? I know cardio, I'm referring more towards diet and possibly any medication or supp aids.
> 
> If haemocrit, RBC count is still a high reading after donating, anything else you would suggest doing to lower?
> 
> What's your stance on the vertical diet?
> 
> I like red meat and tuna, how much would you limit yourself to consuming on a weekly basis? I average 10-20lbs of steak a week.
> 
> Would you say for true natural lifters, a 315lb bench is perhaps not a feat of strength many drug free lifters can achieve? I'm suspicious of most 'naturals' hitting 315 for reps.
> 
> What do you feel is the most important fight style in terms of MMA? if you could specialise if you like in one of Wrestling/grappling, BJJ, Striking. what would it be? granted all areas need to be covered. I'm asking, what do you feel is the big one? would you rather be better at wrestling than stand up for instance.
> 
> Thanks man, I can never really think of much to ask, when you're back.


 Sometimes prostate swelling/inflammation is temporary. I get flare ups on masteron which go away once i discontinue (trouble peeing/weak stream/etc). Cialis is actually approved for BPH and is as effective as flomax/tamsulosin for helping you pee when prostate is swollen.

For BP, 400 mg magnesium citrate or glycinate, avoid too much alcohol (not a lot of people know about this one). The best cure for BP is weight loss and regular cardio. If all else fails, a low dose beta blocker is mild and has little side effects. Some people do have luck with beet juice, but that crap is disgusting.

How high is HCT after donating? 52% and under i wouldn't worry about, just make sure you donate regularly to keep it at 52% or less, otherwise, you can get a script from an MD for a therapeutic phlebotomy.

Don't worry about red meat or tuna. The mercury shouldn't be an issue and red meat is very nutritious and packed with a lot vitamins/minerals, much more than chicken/poultry. My father is over 50 and eats a ton of steak daily, his lipids are perfect, his arteries are squeaky clean. All he eats is steak. He does daily cardio since he was younger though, and i believe this is key, but steak is great for you.

Yeah, most natural will never hit 315 lbs. You need genetics and many years of training. Most would be built for it (short arms/stocky chest). It's exceedingly rare even for AAS users which gives you an idea how hard it would be to achieve naturally, although i believe it possible but extremely difficult, especially for lighter men.

Striking is probably the best, but you need to have power in order for it to be practical for self-defense. You can't incapacitate an attacker without having knockout power, which IS partially based on punching technique but also comes from innate fast twitch muscle fiber/explosiveness.

Brazilian jiujitsu is great because you can be smaller and weaker than your opponent or attacker and still incapacitate them with chokes, but against multiple assailants it's very impractical as they can kick you in the head.

Wrestling is very effective for self-defense/fighting when combine with ground and pound and BASIC brazilian jiujitsu fundamental/defense. Pure wrestlers have very bad habits of leaving their necks out to be choked or giving up their backs. I think the best answer is to be well-rounded in all three, and focus on what you are naturally gifted in.

Mcgregor does well for himself with phenomenal striking (power, timing, accuracy) and exceptional takedown defense (balance, technique, leverage). GSP is blessed in all areas and can take the fight where he needs it to go, but to answer the question, i would rather have striking power/speed/accuracy and good take down defense to keep the fight standing myself.

The rules of MMA also favor the striker, which is a reason you see more striking than grappling even from those with a strong grappling background (Brian Ortega), if the rounds started where you left off (say round ends in mount, next round you start in mount) you would see a lot more fighters invest their energy into grappling, but the rules favor the striker the most.


----------



## ghost.recon

Evening all, after much success of AMA 3.0 Turbo-Charged ft @El Chapo, I will be archiving this thread onto a blog for easy reference. This thread will continue as normal. Thank you everyone for all your questions, keep them coming, and thank you El Chapo for your contributions!


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> Evening all, after much success of AMA 3.0 Turbo-Charged ft @El Chapo, I will be archiving this thread onto a blog for easy reference. This thread will continue as normal. Thank you everyone for all your questions, keep them coming, and thank you El Chapo for your contributions!


 :beer:


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I tried epistane long time ago , and I remember looking really lean(water retention totally gone) ,having more strength and also having some joint pain

but the bad side was : really big lethargy , more then on SD 10-20mg.

As soon as I popped a pill , I could sleep even in the morning after a 8 hour sleep , I had sleepy eye for the 5 weeks on.

What is the reason ? How to avoid it ?

For exemple , on anavar or winstrol i dont have this , on Dbol it happened after 2 weeks , on SD from day 1.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I tried epistane long time ago , and I remember looking really lean(water retention totally gone) ,having more strength and also having some joint pain
> 
> but the bad side was : really big lethargy , more then on SD 10-20mg.
> 
> As soon as I popped a pill , I could sleep even in the morning after a 8 hour sleep , I had sleepy eye for the 5 weeks on.


 It is kind of similar to sdrol in effects so i'm not surprised (hardening/strength/pump). How much did you take?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> It is kind of similar to sdrol in effects so i'm not surprised (hardening/strength/pump). How much did you take?


 I used to take 40mg

I don't have that with anavar and winstrol , I had some lethargy on Dbol after 2 weeks , on SD it's instant like epistane but on SD I have lethargy + feeling like dying


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I used to take 40mg
> 
> I don't have that with anavar and winstrol , I had some lethargy on Dbol after 2 weeks , on SD it's instant like epistane but on SD I have lethargy + feeling like dying


 We all respond differently, it's also possible they were overdosed. Orals are very easy to overdose.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> With regards to e2... when would be a good time to take a test to see what impact ai is having on levels? As there seems to be a peak which presumably would be the best window to test. And like your note above is best time fasted AM? When is the ai peak out of interest,e.g 24 hours after intake?
> 
> If someone had crashed their e2 (adex) typically how long would it take to bump back up to baseline? Assuming they dont take an additional dose in between.
> 
> And is it possible to detail at what level does e2 start to supress hpta? Or is everyone different.


 The question is too broad, it depends on what compound you are taking that is aromatizing, which AI, your doing frequency, genetics, etc.

Don't overthink things, just take the AI, test your E2 during the middle of your injections or the trough. Too low ; decrease AI. Too high ; increase AI. Keep it simple.

E2 can come back in a week or two, but due to gene expression, it can take you longer to feel better depending on how long your levels were crashed for.

Good question, i have no data on that unfortunately.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

About IGF-1 and Testosterone , and nolvadex.

I know nolvadex decrease IGF-1 up to 30% , I ve been on for like a year straight to prevent gyno growth and I had some Vision problems + cognition problems so I made research and I found that It was a side effects of nolva. Lower IGF-1 = less cognition .

Since I stopped taking nolva and ralox , what I noticed is I look fuller and seem to get muscle faster.

Could those -30% of IGF-1 made me gain noticeably less muscles on 250mg test ew?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> About IGF-1 and Testosterone , and nolvadex.
> 
> I know nolvadex decrease IGF-1 up to 30% , I ve been on for like a year straight to prevent gyno growth and I had some Vision problems + cognition problems so I made research and I found that It was a side effects of nolva. Lower IGF-1 = less cognition .
> 
> Since I stopped taking nolva and ralox , what I noticed is I look fuller and seem to get muscle faster.
> 
> Could those -30% of IGF-1 made me gain noticeably less muscles on 250mg test ew?


 its possible, nolva and clomid are fairly toxic and i would never run them year round. Nolvadex is toxic to brain cells and clomid and permanently damage vision in some people.

Nolva and ralox can cause water retention in some people, that might be why you look fuller, it could also be that you were flat from some effect it was having on E2 activity in your body. Turning estrogen receptors on and off and for a whole year will have some effects on the body that would be hard to predict.


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> Bro science spawns from thin air. People like to say things they come up with to sound smart maybe, idk. It's ridiculous.
> 
> No studies, logic or anything to even suggest this. Like i said, with a basic understanding of natural physiology, there's no mechanism by which leydig and sertolli cells would build a resistance to HCG. It's not caffeine...


 Thanks for the info.

I've seen people quote studies about it before hence me asking. Never seen a study to say that it doesn't happen though.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I've seen people quote studies about it before hence me asking. Never seen a study to say that it doesn't happen though.


 I've never seen a study suggesting a tolerance can be built.


----------



## zariph

Not sure if this i allowed to ask, but which UGL's do you prefer?


----------



## 6083

I've had puffy nipples since I hit puberty, I'm 41 now, I've never had bloods done to confirm it but I assume my natural estrogen is on the high side.

But I am not gyno prone to any further degree, I can do high test cycles and never had it develop into any lumps.

Currently I am doing a test, tren, mast cycle.

In your experience is it worth or even possible to reverse this, and if so how?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Not sure if this i allowed to ask, but which UGL's do you prefer?


 I homebrew but for UK, TM and SG were excellent when i used them. Zero pip and all their oils passed LC/MS test.

For US and international, pharmacom has always been excellent.

My advice is to run testosterone labs your first time using a UGL and labmax for the other oils.


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> I've had puffy nipples since I hit puberty, I'm 41 now, I've never had bloods done to confirm it but I assume my natural estrogen is on the high side.
> 
> But I am not gyno prone to any further degree, I can do high test cycles and never had it develop into any lumps.
> 
> Currently I am doing a test, tren, mast cycle.
> 
> In your experience is it worth or even possible to reverse this, and if so how?


 Yeah, how lean are you? If its gyno, run raloxifene 60 mg for 6-12 weeks or nolvadex at 20 mg for the same length of time.

Have you ever gotten down to single digit body fat? (5-9%)


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, how lean are you? If its gyno, run raloxifene 60 mg for 6-12 weeks or nolvadex at 20 mg for the same length of time.
> 
> Have you ever gotten down to single digit body fat? (5-9%)


 Bodyfat % no I've never got to single digits.

Do you think this is more a fat composition issue that will take care of itself if I get into single digits?

Or at least are you implying I will not know for sure unless I do?

I've not tried sourcing ralox yet but I've heard it's difficult in the UK.

So would nolva just be a temporary 'fix'?

Also wary about any rebound effect as I know I can't take nolva long term


----------



## MOMO

@El Chapo

Hey Buddy Firstly thank you so much for the 196 pages of absolute awesome information your an amazing for helping us out and sharing your vast knowledge thanks man

question,

-what do you think of this mess to run along UDCA as a liver protectant

- are Vitamin C injections useful turning heavy cycles

- lastly if I want to have some coaching/guidance as a client to reach certain goals with guidance on health stuff do you offer this?

View attachment 167095


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> Bodyfat % no I've never got to single digits.
> 
> Do you think this is more a fat composition issue that will take care of itself if I get into single digits?
> 
> Or at least are you implying I will not know for sure unless I do?
> 
> I've not tried sourcing ralox yet but I've heard it's difficult in the UK.
> 
> So would nolva just be a temporary 'fix'?
> 
> Also wary about any rebound effect as I know I can't take nolva long term


 You won't know until you try. What is the leanest you think you have been?

Nolva isn't temporary, the gyno reduction is permanent and it does work. You need to run it for 8-12 weeks straight for best results but most people's gyno goes away after 6 weeks. It depends on the severity. There is zero rebound effect.


----------



## ElChapo

MOMO said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hey Buddy Firstly thank you so much for the 196 pages of absolute awesome information your an amazing for helping us out and sharing your vast knowledge thanks man
> 
> question,
> 
> -what do you think of this mess to run along UDCA as a liver protectant
> 
> - are Vitamin C injections useful turning heavy cycles
> 
> - lastly if I want to have some coaching/guidance as a client to reach certain goals with guidance on health stuff do you offer this?
> 
> View attachment 167095


 1. All you need is UDCA or TUDCA and NAC. Avoid alcohol and acetaminophen on oral cycles.

2. No benefit over oral vitamin C. Vitamin C isn't particularly helpful during a cycle. The most important supplement for health during a steroid cycle is regular cardiovascular exercise.

3. @ghost.recon Does coaching, plans, etc. He is extremely knowledgeable with AAS, nutrition, and training. I highly recommend him.


----------



## MOMO

ElChapo said:


> 1. All you need is UDCA or TUDCA and NAC. Avoid alcohol and acetaminophen on oral cycles.
> 
> 2. No benefit over oral vitamin C. Vitamin C isn't particularly helpful during a cycle. The most important supplement for health during a steroid cycle is regular cardiovascular exercise.
> 
> 3. @ghost.recon Does coaching, plans, etc. He is extremely knowledgeable with AAS, nutrition, and training. I highly recommend him.


 Thanks man much appreciated!


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> You won't know until you try. What is the leanest you think you have been?
> 
> Nolva isn't temporary, the gyno reduction is permanent and it does work. You need to run it for 8-12 weeks straight for best results but most people's gyno goes away after 6 weeks. It depends on the severity. There is zero rebound effect.


 I forget but there is a guide somewhere, leanest was with visable abs without flexing, think that's around the 12% Mark?

Come to mention it when I've dabbled with nolva in the past, but not ran it consistently, it did harden my nipples up but it reverted after I stopped using nolva, but I don't think I ran it for more than a week or 2.

I will give it a go for a few months to see if permanent change happens


----------



## jd

@El Chapo is there any creams you recommend for acne on chest and back? I'm only on 150mg test e p/w, can get accutane but don't really fancy it tbf


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> I forget but there is a guide somewhere, leanest was with visable abs without flexing, think that's around the 12% Mark?
> 
> Come to mention it when I've dabbled with nolva in the past, but not ran it consistently, it did harden my nipples up but it reverted after I stopped using nolva, but I don't think I ran it for more than a week or 2.
> 
> I will give it a go for a few months to see if permanent change happens


 7%:


http://imgur.com/HY1lWfq


8%:


http://imgur.com/6u36i3K


9%-10%:


http://imgur.com/EkvhmoR


12-13%:


http://imgur.com/Wu8zBl8


People think nolvadex doesn't work for gyno because they don't take it for long enough. Take it for 6-12 weeks and it will shrink the gyno, if it's gyno. If it's not just estrogenic fat.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> 2. No benefit over oral vitamin C. Vitamin C isn't particularly helpful during a cycle. The most important supplement for health during a steroid cycle is regular cardiovascular exercise.


 What do you think of injectable B12?


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> @El Chapo is there any creams you recommend for acne on chest and back? I'm only on 150mg test e p/w, can get accutane but don't really fancy it tbf


 Some people have luck with topical nizoral shampoo 2% for acne. Let it sit for 5 minutes daily then rinse off. Also, zinc picolinate 50 mg daily but don't take it forever because it can be too much zinc after a while.

Accutane is the most effective for acne and it has PERMANENTLY cured acne for a lot of people. If you do one or two courses for a few months, it seems to turn off the acne genes. Side effects are overblown in my experience., and i believe some of the depression issues might be linked with the mandatory birth control women are forced to take and pre-existing depression problems in guys with acne.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think of injectable B12?


 Overrated, oral will do the job for most people.


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> Accutane is the most effective for acne and it has PERMANENTLY cured acne for a lot of people.
> 
> might be linked with the mandatory birth control women are forced to take.


 Permanently cured mine, except if I run BIG test cycles, than its only very mild, not like the carpet of cysts I had originally, which covered my back in scars

Mandatory birth control? Heck are you in China lol


----------



## jd

ElChapo said:


> Some people have luck with topical nizoral shampoo 2% for acne. Let it sit for 5 minutes daily then rinse off. Also, zinc picolinate 50 mg daily but don't take it forever because it can be too much zinc after a while.
> 
> Accutane is the most effective for acne and it has PERMANENTLY cured acne for a lot of people. If you do one or two courses for a few months, it seems to turn off the acne genes. Side effects are overblown in my experience., and i believe some of the depression issues might be linked with the mandatory birth control women are forced to take and pre-existing depression problems in guys with acne.


 Cheers mate what dose do u recommend and for how long? Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> Permanently cured mine, except if I run BIG test cycles, than its only very mild, not like the carpet of cysts I had originally, which covered my back in scars
> 
> Mandatory birth control? Heck are you in China lol


 USA rules, women need BC to take accutane.


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> Cheers mate what dose do u recommend and for how long? Thanks


 80 mg daily with a fatty meal, it can take 6 months and acne can actually worsen before it gets better.


----------



## maccertimur

Hello,

Have a question about fertility and blast&cruise.

Would using 5000iu over a period of 5 weeks every 3 months preserve fertility at quite a young age or it NEEDS to be used all the time?

Thanks


----------



## Pancake'

Hypothetically let's say you went travelling, what would be a good TRT/cruise protocol with minimum pinning as possible with any long ester?

Have you ever cruised with primo in the mix and if so, did you notice any real benefit?

Would 1g of primo tarnish lipids? is it mild enough to blast 500 - 1g over extended time periods, without experiencing a great deal of sides.

Would you say at around 200lbs for most, would be the cut off, for when you could have a good amount of mass, overall athleticism and be functional with some good cardio?

You any experience with suspensions prior to activities, likes of MMA, anything requiring a edge on the day, how would you rate it, if so?

Jones vs Gustafsson prediction?


----------



## Tricky

maccertimur said:


> Hello,
> 
> Have a question about fertility and blast&cruise.
> 
> Would using 5000iu over a period of 5 weeks every 3 months preserve fertility at quite a young age or it NEEDS to be used all the time?
> 
> Thanks


 Does not need to be used at all nor does clomid. I've never used either been on for years and had two children whilst on tren test superdrol


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> 1. All you need is UDCA or TUDCA and NAC. Avoid alcohol and acetaminophen on oral cycles.
> 
> 2. No benefit over oral vitamin C. Vitamin C isn't particularly helpful during a cycle. The most important supplement for health during a steroid cycle is regular cardiovascular exercise.
> 
> 3. @ghost.recon Does coaching, plans, etc. He is extremely knowledgeable with AAS, nutrition, and training. I highly recommend him.


 Thank you @El Chapo, much appreciated brother.



MOMO said:


> Thanks man much appreciated!


 Enquiries are welcome, however, I am currently not taking on new clients until early 2019 due to current re-development work.


----------



## ElChapo

maccertimur said:


> Hello,
> 
> Have a question about fertility and blast&cruise.
> 
> Would using 5000iu over a period of 5 weeks every 3 months preserve fertility at quite a young age or it NEEDS to be used all the time?
> 
> Thanks


 If you care about fertility, run 1,500 IU weekly whenever you run AAS. This is ideal.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Does not need to be used at all nor does clomid. I've never used either been on for years and had two children whilst on tren test superdrol


 I know the feeling, i knocked her up on tren (no hcg), but not everyone is so lucky. There are guys i speak to daily who's balls are cooked from AAS and they are infertile.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Hypothetically let's say you went travelling, what would be a good TRT/cruise protocol with minimum pinning as possible with any long ester?
> 
> Have you ever cruised with primo in the mix and if so, did you notice any real benefit?
> 
> Would 1g of primo tarnish lipids? is it mild enough to blast 500 - 1g over extended time periods, without experiencing a great deal of sides.
> 
> Would you say at around 200lbs for most, would be the cut off, for when you could have a good amount of mass, overall athleticism and be functional with some good cardio?
> 
> You any experience with suspensions prior to activities, likes of MMA, anything requiring a edge on the day, how would you rate it, if so?
> 
> Jones vs Gustafsson prediction?


 How long is the trip? If you can get nebido, it's ideal. One shot will tide you over +4 weeks. You can also run 200 mg test e7d or use winstrol tabs daily if you can't take injections or source nebido. You will look insane if you are <12% body fat too.

Don't worry about cooking your lipids, as long as it's not year round for a long time, it won't cause permanent damage to your cardiovascular system. Always do some light cardio through your cycles and cruise. Nothing is better for protecting your heart.

It depends on genetics, some guys can be super heavy and still pretty athletic and fast (Brock Lesnar/ extreme example). It also depends on how you built the muscle, a natural mesomorph who does boxing/MMA will have a higher capacity for stamina and speed with more muscle than a bodybuilder who does very little to no cardio and just lifts and eats. Mike O'Hearn is massive, and he's pretty athletic. I think he's 6'3 250-275 lbs depending on his bulk/cut etc. It's a genetic and lifestyle thing, but it definitely gets harder the more muscle you carry as muscle sucks up a ton of oxygen and produces a lot of metabolic by products when in action.

Orals are popular in MMA because they kick hard, fast and clear quickly too. I've not been impressed with my personal experience with suspension, but orals never fail to impress me. Winstrol will increase vascularity as soon as 30 minutes after a tab or capsule. Honestly, stimulants will give you more of that kick, but the best fighters aren't hyped up and screaming, they are calm, cold and calculating when at their best (GSP, Mcgregor, Jones).

IDK but i can't wait. I don't know how Jon has taken care of himself, the guy never fails to impress, he's a true genius of the sport. Gustafsson has been very inactive and his last win wasn't against any impressive competition. I might lean to Jones on this one.


----------



## maccertimur

ElChapo said:


> If you care about fertility, run 1,500 IU weekly whenever you run AAS. This is ideal.


 Thanks

Let me try to rephrase it.Is their a research or your knowledge showing an exact amount of HCG needed throughout a year to keep you fertile in terms of both timing and dosages ? Or is just on the safer side or as you described it ideal to run it through a year at the dosage you stated?


----------



## ElChapo

maccertimur said:


> Thanks
> 
> Let me try to rephrase it.Is their a research or your knowledge showing an exact amount of HCG needed throughout a year to keep you fertile in terms of both timing and dosages ? Or is just on the safer side or as you described it ideal to run it through a year at the dosage you stated?


 Google "hcg fertility pubmed" and dig in.

Anecdotally, people get best results with 1,500. 1,000 is a minimum. Ideal dosing is x 3 per week.

When you take steroids, your body SHUTS OFF your testicles. They stop producing sperm and testosterone. The longer they are inactive, the more likely chance of permanent infertility.

There is a ton of research on AAS users and infertility/hypogonadism being a chronic issue.

By taking HCG from start to finish, the balls never got a chance to "go to sleep". Ideally, you keep the testes stimulated all the time. If you don't take HCG or HMG they go to sleep. Then the cells will begin to lose function and atrophy.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Would other compounds like deca effect the results of a hormone check? Ill be running 150mg test per week to check what range that puts me in with the lab im using.

Im also running 300mg deca with it so will that change the results of the testosterone as opposed to getting tested with only the test e?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Would other compounds like deca effect the results of a hormone check? Ill be running 150mg test per week to check what range that puts me in with the lab im using.
> 
> Im also running 300mg deca with it so will that change the results of the testosterone as opposed to getting tested with only the test e?


 Deca will pop as test with ECLIA assay, the most common method of testing testosterone blood levels.

I'm not sure which other ones will pop but i would assume it can happen with more AAS.

If you have access to LC/MS method, this one can distinguish test from deca.


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> Google "hcg fertility pubmed" and dig in.
> 
> Anecdotally, people get best results with 1,500. 1,000 is a minimum. Ideal dosing is x 3 per week.
> 
> When you take steroids, your body SHUTS OFF your testicles. They stop producing sperm and testosterone. The longer they are inactive, the more likely chance of permanent infertility.
> 
> There is a ton of research on AAS users and infertility/hypogonadism being a chronic issue.
> 
> By taking HCG from start to finish, the balls never got a chance to "go to sleep". Ideally, you keep the testes stimulated all the time. If you don't take HCG or HMG they go to sleep. Then the cells will begin to lose function and atrophy.


 If you were already mid cycle and atrophy was already present would it then not be possible to introduce hcg to get testes working.

Is the only choice to come off the cycle and hope for recovery to then start using hcg for the next cycle?


----------



## Endomorph84

Hi mate, I train fasted and sip EAAs intra workout.

RE: your advice taking 10g BCAA pre workout when fasted, can you tell me why to do it and what it does?

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> If you were already mid cycle and atrophy was already present would it then not be possible to introduce hcg to get testes working.
> 
> Is the only choice to come off the cycle and hope for recovery to then start using hcg for the next cycle?


 You can introduce hcg mid cycle, its just ideal to start it before the atrophy sets in.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Hi mate, I train fasted and sip EAAs intra workout.
> 
> RE: your advice taking 10g BCAA pre workout when fasted, can you tell me why to do it and what it does?
> 
> Thanks.


 Gives the muscles fuel and turns off catabolism, enhances recovery/decreases muscle soreness/reduces exercise induced increases in serotonin which in turn decreases perceived fatigue. (bcaa and tryptophan share the same transporter)

It also lets you get away with less protein.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Deca will pop as test with ECLIA assay, the most common method of testing testosterone blood levels.
> 
> I'm not sure which other ones will pop but i would assume it can happen with more AAS.
> 
> If you have access to LC/MS method, this one can distinguish test from deca.


 I'll be using medichecks, im not sure if you have heard of them ?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> I'll be using medichecks, im not sure if you have heard of them ?


 I think medichecks uses ECLIA. So testosterone won't be accurate if you run DECA.


----------



## m575

ElChapo said:


> I think medichecks uses ECLIA. So testosterone won't be accurate if you run DECA.


 Sorry to hijack the question like I keep seeming to do all the time but would it just be text that deca would affect?

Would you still get true readings for e2 and prolactin etc...


----------



## adam28

ElChapo said:


> I think medichecks uses ECLIA. So testosterone won't be accurate if you run DECA.


 Yes Medichecks use ECLIA.


----------



## Pancake'

What's your preferred protein and carb sources ElChapo?

Thoughts on Gammon, Bacon, Greek yoghurt as protein sources?

Thoughts on arsenic content in rice, do you believe it to be that serious? I wash and rinse white basamati purely to minimise the arsenic levels.


----------



## ElChapo

m575 said:


> Sorry to hijack the question like I keep seeming to do all the time but would it just be text that deca would affect?
> 
> Would you still get true readings for e2 and prolactin etc...


 E2 and prolactin will not be affect only testosterone.

Trenbolone does affect the E2 test though if it's ECLIA.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your preferred protein and carb sources ElChapo?
> 
> Thoughts on Gammon, Bacon, Greek yoghurt as protein sources?
> 
> Thoughts on arsenic content in rice, do you believe it to be that serious? I wash and rinse white basamati purely to minimise the arsenic levels.


 Best sources are whatever you like the best. I regularly eat fried chicken and pizza. I love breakfast cereals like peanut butter chocolate cheerios, chocolate chex, cookie crisp, etc with skim milk. Cookies and chocolate milk are also a staple in my diet.

bacon and greek yogurt are fine but again nothing special, all that matters is that you stick to a diet that you enjoy so that you stay consistent with your goals (cutting/deficit or bulk/surplus). Where the macros come from doesn't matter. "Clean food" is a myth. Whole foods are obviously best from a nutritional and satiety standpoint, i never recommend eating only junk. Cookies and pastries have their place in any diet, but they should be used as dessert and for carbs. The bulk of cals should come from whole foods ideally.

I wouldn't worry about any arsenic in rice, Humans are tough as hell and a lot of this stuff is way overblown.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo if i mix a 5000iu vial of hcg with bac water can i keep it in the fridge mixed for 5 weeks? planning on doing 1000 iu per week but not sure if it will be safe to use for 5 weeks?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo if i mix a 5000iu vial of hcg with bac water can i keep it in the fridge mixed for 5 weeks? planning on doing 1000 iu per week but not sure if it will be safe to use for 5 weeks?


 Yeah, that will stay good.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo really enjoying your information on here regarding aas, learning more and more each day!

ive been off cycle for a year now and had a baby with the mrs and looking at going back on to blast and cruise. I'm in my late 20s and i have never understood the protocol with hcg as i never used it on cycles previous. Some kits I've seen come with 5000iu powder form and only 2 ml of bac water, just have 3 questions for you

1. Shouldn't it be 5ml of bac water to mix with 5000iu powder in one go to store in fridge?

2. If pinning sub q, what size insulin pins would i need and are they listed in iu's and do they go up to 1000iu per syringe (that's what im looking at doing) the slin ones I've seen go up in 10s, 20s etc or would 10 on the pin mean 1000 iu?

3. Should i be pinning 1000 iu whether it be blast or cruise or should i lower it to 500iu during cruise?

Might sound stupid but i can never get my head around it, thank you!


----------



## Armitage Shanks

Hello @ElChapo I have read Dr. Bruce Lipton's The Wisdom of Your Cells, and found it very interesting how he states it is the environment that affects the outcome of the cells, Nocebo and Placebo effect and Theta brain waves etc...

Do you have an opinion on his work? Is he someone who should be taken seriously?


----------



## pma111

You used a phrase 'estrogenic fat' in a previous reply. Is this just body fat caused by high e2 levels and presumably tackled by the usual means as other body fat e.g calorific deficit and cardio? I assume lowering e2 doesnt solve that build up of fat in certain areas.

Also what kind of effect does thyroid medication have on the bodies own thyroid production. Does the thyroid med shut down your bodies natural production in a similar way to trt.

And can high cortisol be as supressive as high estrogen on hpta? Or is estrogen more supressive in general. Are there any supps which can help with high cortisol.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo really enjoying your information on here regarding aas, learning more and more each day!
> 
> ive been off cycle for a year now and had a baby with the mrs and looking at going back on to blast and cruise. I'm in my late 20s and i have never understood the protocol with hcg as i never used it on cycles previous. Some kits I've seen come with 5000iu powder form and only 2 ml of bac water, just have 3 questions for you
> 
> 1. Shouldn't it be 5ml of bac water to mix with 5000iu powder in one go to store in fridge?
> 
> 2. If pinning sub q, what size insulin pins would i need and are they listed in iu's and do they go up to 1000iu per syringe (that's what im looking at doing) the slin ones I've seen go up in 10s, 20s etc or would 10 on the pin mean 1000 iu?
> 
> 3. Should i be pinning 1000 iu whether it be blast or cruise or should i lower it to 500iu during cruise?
> 
> Might sound stupid but i can never get my head around it, thank you!


 1. The concentration can be as high or as low as you want. The amount it's mixed with doesn't matter.

2. Insulin pins are always 100 IU/ 1 mL. You won't be paying attention the IUs on the syringe though, what matters is the mL. Every "10 IU" will be 0.10 mL. The amount you need to inject will depend on the concentration of the HCG you mix which you can customize by make it more or less concentrated. If you did 5,000 IU in 5 mL, taking 1 mL or an insulin syringe full would equal 1,000 IU.

3. I always recommend 1,000 IU as a minimum. I would do 500 IU Monday/Wed/Fri, but you can do 500-750 IU x 2 per week. 1,500 IU is the best dose in my opinion. Some people don't even get testicle size to come back on 500 IU. HCG is cheap and not as effective as HMG, so "more is better" to a point.

There's no such thing as a stupid question. Just remember that the IUs on the syringe don't matter, just know that half a syringe is .5 mL and a full syringe is 1 mL. If you mixed 5,000 IU HCG into 5 mL of bac water, you would take an insulin syringe full (1 mL) of HCG to equal 1,000 IU since 1,000 IU = 1 mL.


----------



## ElChapo

Armitage Shanks said:


> Hello @ElChapo I have read Dr. Bruce Lipton's The Wisdom of Your Cells, and found it very interesting how he states it is the environment that affects the outcome of the cells, Nocebo and Placebo effect and Theta brain waves etc...
> 
> Do you have an opinion on his work? Is he someone who should be taken seriously?


 Never read the work, but i would be glad to give you my opinion or analysis on any of his specific ideas.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> You used a phrase 'estrogenic fat' in a previous reply. Is this just body fat caused by high e2 levels and presumably tackled by the usual means as other body fat e.g calorific deficit and cardio? I assume lowering e2 doesnt solve that build up of fat in certain areas.
> 
> Also what kind of effect does thyroid medication have on the bodies own thyroid production. Does the thyroid med shut down your bodies natural production in a similar way to trt.
> 
> And can high cortisol be as supressive as high estrogen on hpta? Or is estrogen more supressive in general. Are there any supps which can help with high cortisol.


 Having Higher E2 levels will make your body more prone to store fat in certain areas (butt, hips, breast) but you still need to be in a caloric surplus to make or store the fat. It won't do anything to make you fatter if you are cutting or eating maintenance. Lowering the E2 without a caloric deficit will not get rid of the fat. A deficit with high E2 would still burn it off.

Yes, thyroid meds will shutdown your own production. Small amounts of T4 can sometimes supplement your endogenous production, but past a certain threshold, your own production gets shut off. The good thing is that when you discontinue exogenous supplementation, your own production bounces right back eventually. It can take over a month.

High cortisol can supress the HPTA, high stress can diminish natural testosterone production. Best supplement for high cortisol is light-moderate cardiovascular exercise, it makes your cortisol receptors develop a resistant to cortisol and your mind to stress. The cardio has to be light enough that it doesn't make the cortisol/stress worse. Relaxation and good sleep, as well as a high carb diet will also help lower cortisol. If you've ever done a ketogenic diet, you likely have felt the increase stress/irritability that comes with. Carbs are important for serotonin/tryptophan production which is important for relaxation and good mood.


----------



## zariph

Hello

Might be a big question but could you give some information about DHB?
1. Can it be run as second cycle or is this a compund for advanced users?

2. Dosage and should it be stacked with test, and if so how much test?

3. It doesnt seems that it has any real side effects? This sounds a bit too good to be true?

4. Anything I need to know about DHB which I havent asked?


----------



## Pancake'

Thoughts on deadlifting with a mixed grip?

What do you believe is the most superior row variation?

Are dumbbells superior for chest development over Barbells?

Would any joint issues from winstrol stop once discontinued?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello
> 
> Might be a big question but could you give some information about DHB?
> 1. Can it be run as second cycle or is this a compund for advanced users?
> 
> 2. Dosage and should it be stacked with test, and if so how much test?
> 
> 3. It doesnt seems that it has any real side effects? This sounds a bit too good to be true?
> 
> 4. Anything I need to know about DHB which I havent asked?


 1. Run it as a DHT or drying/polishing compound. For instance, it's a great substitute for mast in a test/tren/mast stack. You can do test/tren/DHB.

2. Good dose is 200-600 mg, always stack with test, the dose of test depends on your goals and experience level. If you are a bulking, a good stack is 600-1,000/600 mg test/DHB or 600/300. For cutting 200/200-300/300 is very effective.

3. Some people report mood disturbance but generally it is pretty side effect free for the most part, everyone is different.

4. Just treat it like you would masteron or winstrol. It's a DHT-type androgen with drying effects.


----------



## Matt6210

ElChapo said:


> 1. Run it as a DHT or drying/polishing compound. For instance, it's a great substitute for mast in a test/tren/mast stack. You can do test/tren/DHB.
> 
> 2. Good dose is 200-600 mg, always stack with test, the dose of test depends on your goals and experience level. If you are a bulking, a good stack is 600-1,000/600 mg test/DHB or 600/300. For cutting 200/200-300/300 is very effective.
> 
> 3. Some people report mood disturbance but generally it is pretty side effect free for the most part, everyone is different.
> 
> 4. Just treat it like you would masteron or winstrol. It's a DHT-type androgen with drying effects.


 Made me depressed as f**k lol


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 1. Run it as a DHT or drying/polishing compound. For instance, it's a great substitute for mast in a test/tren/mast stack. You can do test/tren/DHB.
> 
> 2. Good dose is 200-600 mg, always stack with test, the dose of test depends on your goals and experience level. If you are a bulking, a good stack is 600-1,000/600 mg test/DHB or 600/300. For cutting 200/200-300/300 is very effective.
> 
> 3. Some people report mood disturbance but generally it is pretty side effect free for the most part, everyone is different.
> 
> 4. Just treat it like you would masteron or winstrol. It's a DHT-type androgen with drying effects.


 Thx!

Will this produce the same strength gains and winstrol? I know you like winstrol but havent seen you talk too much about DHB?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Thoughts on deadlifting with a mixed grip?
> 
> What do you believe is the most superior row variation?
> 
> Are dumbbells superior for chest development over Barbells?
> 
> Would any joint issues from winstrol stop once discontinued?


 1. It's not an issue and no one has ever really developed an "imbalance" that i know of from doing it. I recommend alternating the grip between sets just to distribute the workout to both sides and arms. The supinated grip (palms facing away) will put more pressure on the biceps and pronated (palms facing you) on the triceps.

2. It depends on your goal, for strength/athleticism ; barbell standing. For back/ rear delt development/isolation, seated cable lets you really focus on the back and rear delts.

3. I feel for best results mixing the two works very well. Get strong on both movements, and you will have a great chest if you are <12% body fat. 5-12 rep range for Barbell, 12-20 for dumbbell and focus on contracting the chest or as Kai Greene puts it, squeezing a pencil between your pecs.

4. Yeah, unless you injured or sprained a muscle or connective tissue. Most minor sprains will heal on their own with completed rest in 1-2 weeks, 3-4 weeks for more moderate ones.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx!
> 
> Will this produce the same strength gains and winstrol? I know you like winstrol but havent seen you talk too much about DHB?


 Good strength gains, it's between mast and tren in terms of strength gains from what i've seen.

I rank winstrol and superdrol highest for strength but that's only my experience, others might have different results. Some guys feel tren gives them the most strength, others really like test for it.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Good strength gains, it's between mast and tren in terms of strength gains from what i've seen.
> 
> I rank winstrol and superdrol highest for strength but that's only my experience, others might have different results. Some guys feel tren gives them the most strength, others really like test for it.


 Okay

Most ppl recommen test only first cycle, what would you recommend as second cycle for adding mass and strength? So many compounds to choose from but I know its better to use as few as possible?

Nice of you to reply to all these questions


----------



## Matt6210

What are your opinions on useing mk677 and gh at the same time bud and how and when would you dose it?

and when do you feel is best time to take gh anyway if useing 4iu 5 days a week.

im currently splitting it 2iu am and 2iu preworkout.

(sorry if you've already answered your opinion on growth protocol common question I know)


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay
> 
> Most ppl recommen test only first cycle, what would you recommend as second cycle for adding mass and strength? So many compounds to choose from but I know its better to use as few as possible?
> 
> Nice of you to reply to all these questions


 I recommend 600 mg test P with 50 mg winstrol daily for a solid 2nd cycle. I also recommend staying under 15% body fat year round, this way you always look aesthetic, feel great, and get to see the changes in your physique and muscle seperation. Best of all, you are only a short cut away from being very lean if you want to do that.

Make sure you keep a close eye on your calories and eat 300-500 more calories than your maintenance and push to get stronger on all your lifts with GOOD form.

AAS will always work best when you are leaner as insulin sensitivity is highest when body is low and you will see the effects like drying/vascularity/muscle fullness more clearly when muscle aren't covered in lard.

It's good to use as little compounds as possible at first so you get to know how each compound treats you and what side effects you get. This will way you will learn which ones work best for you and which ones you don't like. If you do too much at once, you won't know what's causing what, good or bad.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> What are your opinions on useing mk677 and gh at the same time bud and how and when would you dose it?
> 
> and when do you feel is best time to take gh anyway if useing 4iu 5 days a week.
> 
> im currently splitting it 2iu am and 2iu preworkout.
> 
> (sorry if you've already answered your opinion on growth protocol common question I know)


 I would avoid mk677 on a cut as it can increase appetite and feelings of hunger. I don't see much of a benefit if GH is already in the equation.

Two options with timing GH:

1. Take in the early morning when waking up, as hopefully, your body might have squeeze out a little of it's own during the night while you sleep. 2. Take at night before bed when recovery is highest during sleep, you get that big spike of GH to heal and build muscle.

I lean towards option #2 myself.

The half-life of GH is very short, so the effects don't come from the serum levels through out the day but by the gene expression activated by big spikes. Once a day will do the job.


----------



## Matt6210

ElChapo said:


> I would avoid mk677 on a cut as it can increase appetite and feelings of hunger. I don't see much of a benefit if GH is already in the equation.
> 
> I would take in the early morning when waking up, as hopefully, your body might have squeeze out a little of it's own during the night while you sleep. The half-life of GH is very short, so the effects don't come from the serum levels through out the day but by the gene expression activated by big spikes. Once a day will do the job.


 That's the sole reason I'm useing the mk mate for appetite, didn't mention I was useing insulin post workout, so would it be best to pin tho whole 4iu gh pre workout?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I recommend 600 mg test P with 50 mg winstrol daily for a solid 2nd cycle. I also recommend staying under 15% body fat year round, this way you always look aesthetic, feel great, and get to see the changes in your physique and muscle seperation. Best of all, you are only a short cut away from being very lean if you want to do that.
> 
> Make sure you keep a close eye on your calories and eat 300-500 more calories than your maintenance and push to get stronger on all your lifts with GOOD form.
> 
> AAS will always work best when you are leaner as insulin sensitivity is highest when body is low and you will see the effects like drying/vascularity/muscle fullness more clearly when muscle aren't covered in lard.
> 
> It's good to use as little compounds as possible at first so you get to know how each compound treats you and what side effects you get. This will way you will learn which ones work best for you and which ones you don't like. If you do too much at once, you won't know what's causing what, good or bad.


 If 12week cycle, I guess you would do winny 8 weeks?

Also will it be too much to use either deca or dhb also?


----------



## SoberHans

Another question sorry.

Any benefit to carb cycling whilst cutting on Tren with at least 500 calorie deficit per day?

Thanks and have a good new year


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> That's the sole reason I'm useing the mk mate for appetite, didn't mention I was useing insulin post workout, so would it be best to pin tho whole 4iu gh pre workout?


 I would do GH at bedtime. The GH will be doing most of it's job while you sleep and recover, not during training. It's a tissue growth/recovery compound.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Benefits of taking Kril oil for steroid users ?

I know it's good for heart and health , but why is it better then Omega 3 pills ?

I"ve been taking 3g of omega 3/ day since years , I'd like to add 1 pill of Kril oil / day (it's much more expensive) , Is there any benefits or am I just wasting my money?

Ofc I do cardio 4-5 times a week too.


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> It's good to use as little compounds as possible at first so you get to know how each compound treats you and what side effects you get. This will way you will learn which ones work best for you and which ones you don't like. If you do too much at once, you won't know what's causing what, good or bad.


 So true.

Just as an example this how my cycle history looks...

-600mg Test E (+Anavar last 6 weeks)
-600mg Test E
-600mg Test E

The high test really sent my Blood Pressure through the roof, so switched to low test alongside a 2nd compound.

-175-350mg Test P + 350-525mg Tren A.
-210mg Test E & 525mg Tren E (350mg Winstrol first 6 weeks but dropped due to back pump).
-‎300mg Test E & 450mg Deca (Winstrol last 6 weeks)

Which brought me to the lovely cycle I'm on at the moment with zero (apparent) sides 300mg Test, 300mg Tren E & 450mg Deca :cool2:


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> If 12week cycle, I guess you would do winny 8 weeks?
> 
> Also will it be too much to use either deca or dhb also?


 12 weeks winstrol is fine, especially with UDCA or TUDCA. 250-500 mg UDCA/TUDCA daily. 1,000 MG of NAC on top of that for extra insurance if you want.

For a 2nd cycle, don't add DECA or DHB. Like i said, one compound at a time. If you don't get crazy gains on 600 mg test P + 50 mg winstrol, you need to take a look at training, diet and recovery. It's a marathon, not a race. Your goal should be to build muscle with each cycle that you will keep, and slowly you build up your physique. DECA puts you at risk for erectile dysfunction and gyno. DHB is okay, but stick to the test/winstrol first.


----------



## Baka

Matt6210 said:


> Made me depressed as f**k lol


 You used it finally ? Apart from feeling depressed how did you feel ?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Another question sorry.
> 
> Any benefit to carb cycling whilst cutting on Tren with at least 500 calorie deficit per day?
> 
> Thanks and have a good new year


 Keep carbs as high as you can at all times. You will stay full, strong and feel your best. There is no real benefit to low carb or ketosis.


----------



## Matt6210

Baka said:


> You used it finally ? Apart from feeling depressed how did you feel ?


 Had to stop taking it mate, worst I've ever psychologically felt from steroids.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Benefits of taking Kril oil for steroid users ?
> 
> I know it's good for heart and health , but why is it better then Omega 3 pills ?
> 
> I"ve been taking 3g of omega 3/ day since years , I'd like to add 1 pill of Kril oil / day (it's much more expensive) , Is there any benefits or am I just wasting my money?
> 
> Ofc I do cardio 4-5 times a week too.


 It's not, just take a high quality fish oil. Carlson's has the best value to quality ratio. Their best product is the liquid fish oil that comes in Lemon and Orange flavor, it tastes pretty great. It's got a great ratio of DHA, very cost effective, tastes good, and the quality is among the highest.

Don't waste money on krill oil. Cardio is king, best supplement/period


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> It's not, just take a high quality fish oil. Carlson's has the best value to quality ratio. Their best product is the liquid fish oil that comes in Lemon and Orange flavor, it tastes pretty great. It's got a great ratio of DHA, very cost effective, tastes good, and the quality is among the highest.
> 
> Don't waste money on krill oil. Cardio is king, best supplement/period


 Ok , won't buy it then.

I'm using Now Food Ultimate omega 3 ( 750DHA 250EPA / caps)


----------



## Baka

Matt6210 said:


> Had to stop taking it mate, worst I've ever psychologically felt from steroids.


 I didn't have this side , but I got bloat from high E2 don't know why , when I look at pictures while on DHB I was looking bloated af, and I remember having bad nipple pain too


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Ok , won't buy it then.
> 
> I'm using Now Food Ultimate omega 3 ( 750DHA 250EPA / caps)


 NOW foods is usually solid quality.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Keep carbs as high as you can at all times. You will stay full, strong and feel your best. There is no real benefit to low carb or ketosis.


 Thanks and just what I wanted to hear .

Why do you think keto and carb cycling are so popular?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks and just what I wanted to hear .
> 
> Why do you think keto and carb cycling are so popular?


 Fad diets, tons of crap is popular, doesn't make it effective. Low fat diets, low carb diets, it all goes in and out of style and it's all bullshit. The only thing that matters is a caloric deficit or surplus. High carbs is optimal for mood AND performance. This is basic physiology and exercise science. High carb intake stimulates T4 conversion to T3 as well.

High carbs = High LEPTIN/T3 / High GLYCOGEN / high serotonin = faster metabolism, better mood, stronger/fuller muscles.

Low carb/keto = Low LEPTIN/T3 / Low GLYCOGEN / low serotonin = Garbage mood, garbage performance, flat, weak and tired muscles.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Fad diets, tons of crap is popular, doesn't make it effective. Low fat diets, low carb diets, it all goes in and out of style and it's all bullshit. The only thing that matters is a caloric deficit or surplus. High carbs is optimal for mood AND performance. This is basic physiology and exercise science. High carb intake stimulates T4 conversion to T3 as well.
> 
> High carbs = High LEPTIN/T3 / High GLYCOGEN / high serotonin = faster metabolism, better mood, stronger/fuller muscles.
> 
> Low carb/keto = Low LEPTIN/T3 / Low GLYCOGEN / low serotonin = Garbage mood, garbage performance, flat, weak and tired muscles.


 Thanks again, really appreciate it


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks again, really appreciate it


 Mike O'Hearn is a big proponent of high carb diets. He maintains 7% body fat pretty much year round. He has an impressive physique and a ton of strength, just to give an example. I have no trouble maintaining single digit body fat year round myself, i attribute this to high carb intake, which keeps the most important hormone for staying lean, LEPTIN, as high as possible.

When you are lean, your leptin levels are low because leptin comes from fat cells. This is why people's bodies scream at them to binge eat when they get ripped/shredded. You can tell the body to shut up if you feed it a lot of carbs, because high carb intake stimulates leptin release.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> 1. The concentration can be as high or as low as you want. The amount it's mixed with doesn't matter.
> 
> 2. Insulin pins are always 100 IU/ 1 mL. You won't be paying attention the IUs on the syringe though, what matters is the mL. Every "10 IU" will be 0.10 mL. The amount you need to inject will depend on the concentration of the HCG you mix which you can customize by make it more or less concentrated. If you did 5,000 IU in 5 mL, taking 1 mL or an insulin syringe full would equal 1,000 IU.
> 
> 3. I always recommend 1,000 IU as a minimum. I would do 500 IU Monday/Wed/Fri, but you can do 500-750 IU x 2 per week. 1,500 IU is the best dose in my opinion. Some people don't even get testicle size to come back on 500 IU. HCG is cheap and not as effective as HMG, so "more is better" to a point.
> 
> There's no such thing as a stupid question. Just remember that the IUs on the syringe don't matter, just know that half a syringe is .5 mL and a full syringe is 1 mL. If you mixed 5,000 IU HCG into 5 mL of bac water, you would take an insulin syringe full (1 mL) of HCG to equal 1,000 IU since 1,000 IU = 1 mL.


 Thank you very much, really appreciate it i finally get it now!

Going to be running a low dose test e 150mg twice a week (300mg in total)and mast e 200mg twice a week (400mg total) and 50mg var for the first 6 weeks with an ai of 0.25 adex taken straight after jabs so twice a week also. I'm using it as a cutting cycle in a 500 deficit for 12 weeks then cruise for 12 weeks get bloods done, depending on everything comes back ok I'll do a blast And so on.

My question is do you think I'll need more ai with the hcg added, as it raises e2 im wondering if 0.25 a week will be enough with the hcg added to my cut cycle or would i need to add more, maybe 0.5 on jab days with the hcg added at 1000iu a week, or stick at 0.25 get bloods 6 weeks into cycle and adjust from there?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Thank you very much, really appreciate it i finally get it now!
> 
> Going to be running a low dose test e 150mg twice a week (300mg in total)and mast e 200mg twice a week (400mg total) and 50mg var for the first 6 weeks with an ai of 0.25 adex taken straight after jabs so twice a week also. I'm using it as a cutting cycle in a 500 deficit for 12 weeks then cruise for 12 weeks get bloods done, depending on everything comes back ok I'll do a blast And so on.
> 
> My question is do you think I'll need more ai with the hcg added, as it raises e2 im wondering if 0.25 a week will be enough with the hcg added to my cut cycle or would i need to add more, maybe 0.5 on jab days with the hcg added at 1000iu a week, or stick at 0.25 get bloods 6 weeks into cycle and adjust from there?


 It's possible, but since you have masteron in there, you should be fine. We don't know your genetic response of test to E2 conversion, hcg, and adex. You can stick to 0.25-0.5. I would start lower and increase only if necessary. If you really care about fertility, i would run 1,500-2,000 IU hcg per week.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo 
About nizoral 2% and Masteron , does nizoral conter act the masteron hair loss ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> About nizoral 2% and Masteron , does nizoral conter act the masteron hair loss ?


 It can, anecdotally, many find that it does slow or prevent hair thinning during cycles. It's a staple of mine.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> It's possible, but since you have masteron in there, you should be fine. We don't know your genetic response of test to E2 conversion, hcg, and adex. You can stick to 0.25-0.5. I would start lower and increase only if necessary. If you really care about fertility, i would run 1,500-2,000 IU hcg per week.


 Brilliant, thank you @ElChapo I'll start low and get bloods and adjust from there. Thanks again and happy new year to you!


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

About gyno surgery , if they cut the gland and do lupo too , will there be really visible scars?

I know some people got gyno surgery and don't like to show their body anymore because of the scar or their weird nipple after the surgery.

They are BBers , and having those scars is like a proof they got gyno from AAS so they are ashamed.

Im thinking of getting mine cut + Lipo , it's not visible for people but for me it is and even Nizoral or Korean ginseng make it grow/give me pain.

I want to use Nizoral for hair loss but every time after my use I had pain for 48 hours and some burning sensation under the nipple and armpit.

I'm really prone to gyno unfortunately and thinking more and more about surgery so Ill be able to lower my AI / Stop SERMs / use nizoral .

What do you think about it ? is it worth the risks paying 2000£ for getting it cut ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> About gyno surgery , if they cut the gland and do lupo too , will there be really visible scars?
> 
> I know some people got gyno surgery and don't like to show their body anymore because of the scar or their weird nipple after the surgery.
> 
> They are BBers , and having those scars is like a proof they got gyno from AAS so they are ashamed.
> 
> Im thinking of getting mine cut + Lipo , it's not visible for people but for me it is and even Nizoral or Korean ginseng make it grow/give me pain.
> 
> I want to use Nizoral for hair loss but every time after my use I had pain for 48 hours and some burning sensation under the nipple and armpit.
> 
> I'm really prone to gyno unfortunately and thinking more and more about surgery so Ill be able to lower my AI / Stop SERMs / use nizoral .
> 
> What do you think about it ? is it worth the risks paying 2000£ for getting it cut ?


 Have you tried raloxifene or nolvadex for at least 12 weeks?

Only the surgeon will be able to tell you what degree of scarring you might face, something you would discuss during a consultation.


----------



## swole troll

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> About gyno surgery , if they cut the gland and do lupo too , will there be really visible scars?
> 
> I know some people got gyno surgery and don't like to show their body anymore because of the scar or their weird nipple after the surgery.
> 
> They are BBers , and having those scars is like a proof they got gyno from AAS so they are ashamed.
> 
> Im thinking of getting mine cut + Lipo , it's not visible for people but for me it is and even Nizoral or Korean ginseng make it grow/give me pain.
> 
> I want to use Nizoral for hair loss but every time after my use I had pain for 48 hours and some burning sensation under the nipple and armpit.
> 
> I'm really prone to gyno unfortunately and thinking more and more about surgery so Ill be able to lower my AI / Stop SERMs / use nizoral .
> 
> What do you think about it ? is it worth the risks paying 2000£ for getting it cut ?


 you really been mulling this surgery over a long time havnt you mate

i know you were asking elchapo but iirc you were going to go to the noaclinic same as me and @Sparkey did? 
if this is the case then i can 100% assure you that unless my wife extremely closely examines my nipple she cannot see any scaring

absolutely no one will notice the scar unless you ask them to hunt it out and even then its like a hair line.

im only offering you advice as i know how much of a ballache it is pre surgery

and without constant blood work even when ive shrank my gyno in the past pre surgery it was always on my mind and bit of a juggling act when i went on (particularly when swapping in and out compounds during a blast)

dbol was completely off limits unless i ran letrozole which usually resulted in me tanking oestrogen then massively rebounding the other way

hence i got it removed and when i did it was about half the size of an almond so it wasnt a case of aesthetics why i had them out.

you'll never look back on that £2000 once you are recovered from the surgery and back in the gym


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> you really been mulling this surgery over a long time havnt you mate
> 
> i know you were asking elchapo but iirc you were going to go to the noaclinic same as me and @Sparkey did?
> if this is the case then i can 100% assure you that unless my wife extremely closely examines my nipple she cannot see any scaring
> 
> absolutely no one will notice the scar unless you ask them to hunt it out and even then its like a hair line.
> 
> im only offering you advice as i know how much of a ballache it is pre surgery
> 
> and without constant blood work even when ive shrank my gyno in the past pre surgery it was always on my mind and bit of a juggling act when i went on (particularly when swapping in and out compounds during a blast)
> 
> dbol was completely off limits unless i ran letrozole which usually resulted in me tanking oestrogen then massively rebounding the other way
> 
> hence i got it removed and when i did it was about half the size of an almond so it wasnt a case of aesthetics why i had them out.
> 
> you'll never look back on that £2000 once you are recovered from the surgery and back in the gym


 yea it's been a long time , almost 2 years now.

I haven't enough money yet but I've got like 1/3 of it right now .

I'll do it for sure , it must be so nice to not worry about that , it has been the most annoying problem since I started AAS and I've never used big dose or tren/anadrol


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Have you tried raloxifene or nolvadex for at least 12 weeks?
> 
> Only the surgeon will be able to tell you what degree of scarring you might face, something you would discuss during a consultation.


 I stayed on Ralox for like 14 months , on Nolva for 1 year at least too so yea.

The thing is the ball under the nipple goes away after 2-3 months of nolva or ralox , but the fatty kind of gyno doesn't hence the reason why I need Lipo.

It's not fat at all , it's glandular tissue but soft one that make my chest going down and rounder , the kind of gyno that appeared with high progesterone levels.

Nolva and ralox only help maybe 20% and every year it gets worse by a little.

Surgery is needed to be at peace with it


----------



## pma111

What nutrients does your pituitary gland require for function and creation of lh and fsh... eg.. tyrosine, iodine and selenium are good for thyroid function, vitamin c/b5 for adrenals.. what nutrients nourish the pituitary gland so it performs optimally.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I stayed on Ralox for like 14 months , on Nolva for 1 year at least too so yea.
> 
> The thing is the ball under the nipple goes away after 2-3 months of nolva or ralox , but the fatty kind of gyno doesn't hence the reason why I need Lipo.
> 
> It's not fat at all , it's glandular tissue but soft one that make my chest going down and rounder , the kind of gyno that appeared with high progesterone levels.
> 
> Nolva and ralox only help maybe 20% and every year it gets worse by a little.
> 
> Surgery is needed to be at peace with it


 What's the leanest you have ever gotten?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What nutrients does your pituitary gland require for function and creation of lh and fsh... eg.. tyrosine, iodine and selenium are good for thyroid function, vitamin c/b5 for adrenals.. what nutrients nourish the pituitary gland so it performs optimally.


 Nothing you take will affect the hormones secreted, but for optimal health, Vitamin A, D, E and the B vitamins. A good multivitamin will have you covered. I recommend Now Foods True balance. It's the best i've seen yet.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> What's the leanest you have ever gotten?


 6% bf , was so damn shredded .

It was still there unfortunately ..


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Which supplements can lower prolactin ? I've tried a LOT and none worked.

P5P , B-complex , some herbals etc but none worked (did blood tests ofc)


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Which supplements can lower prolactin ? I've tried a LOT and none worked.
> 
> P5P , B-complex , some herbals etc but none worked (did blood tests ofc)


 Vitamin B6 is the only thing i've heard of working but i wouldn't count on it. Most supplements are virtually useless.

Cabergoline works, but it's a good idea to get test for prolactinoma if your levels are chronically very high.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo would it be ok to mix gear from 2 different labs in the same syringe? Different carrier oils mixing wouldn't cause issues would it?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo would it be ok to mix gear from 2 different labs in the same syringe? Different carrier oils mixing wouldn't cause issues would it?


 None at all.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-I was using TM test but since it's gone now I'm thinking of switching to Pharma test , is it worth the more $?

-I took 0.25mg caber 10 days ago and since 2-3 days my libido is getting really good , could it be from caber ? and is it normal that I didn't have effects the first 7 days and only now?


----------



## TrenBalonie

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -I was using TM test but since it's gone now I'm thinking of switching to Pharma test , is it worth the more $?
> 
> -I took 0.25mg caber 10 days ago and since 2-3 days my libido is getting really good , could it be from caber ? and is it normal that I didn't have effects the first 7 days and only now?


 -For first question you can add Total Test in your bloods to see if test is dosed right and how you react to it.


----------



## TrenBalonie

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo would it be ok to mix gear from 2 different labs in the same syringe? Different carrier oils mixing wouldn't cause issues would it?


 I mixed Winstrol in water with others oils from 2 different ugls, never had PIP. Max 3mls.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -I was using TM test but since it's gone now I'm thinking of switching to Pharma test , is it worth the more $?
> 
> -I took 0.25mg caber 10 days ago and since 2-3 days my libido is getting really good , could it be from caber ? and is it normal that I didn't have effects the first 7 days and only now?


 No, it really isn't.

Yes, cabergoline can increase libido by increasing dopamenergic activity and lowering prolactin. It's 90% likely to be the caber. When guys can't get their dicks hard from jerking off to too much porn, it's due to dopamine dysfunction and prolactin.


----------



## TURBS

@ElChapo What are your views on 5-HTP?

Is it worth taking in the morning for depression say @ 100mg?

Or better taking same dose before bed for sleep?


----------



## ElChapo

TERBO said:


> @ElChapo What are your views on 5-HTP?
> 
> Is it worth taking in the morning for depression say @ 100mg?
> 
> Or better taking same dose before bed for sleep?


 Have you tried cardio?


----------



## TURBS

ElChapo said:


> Have you tried cardio?


 I know that would be of better benefit but currently not training due to overcoming illness. Have stopped all prescription meds, started TRT after nearly 3 years totally off and currently taking ashwagandha and 5HTP in the morning.


----------



## adam28

TERBO said:


> @ElChapo What are your views on 5-HTP?
> 
> Is it worth taking in the morning for depression say @ 100mg?
> 
> Or better taking same dose before bed for sleep?


 Raises your prolactin mate, tried it didn't like it.

If you stay on to long your balance of prolactin to dopamine will change and you will be more prolactin dominant so you would want to add in something like l tyrosine to try and keep a balance.

If your on any 19nors I myself wouldnt touch it.


----------



## TURBS

adam28 said:


> Raises your prolactin mate, tried it didn't like it.
> 
> If you stay on to long your balance of prolactin to dopamine will change and you will be more prolactin dominant so you would want to add in something like l tyrosine to try and keep a balance.
> 
> If your on any 19nors I myself wouldnt touch it.


 Thanks for that... only on TRT and after some reading planned to do 120 days on them. Started taking at night to help with sleep but no real effect so now taking first thing instead which I hoped would help with depression.


----------



## adam28

TERBO said:


> Thanks for that... only on TRT and after some reading planned to do 120 days on them. Started taking at night to help with sleep but no real effect so now taking first thing instead which I hoped would help with depression.


 I turned to it mate when I split with the misses. Made me feel like abit of a zombie, that's when I stopped, done abit of research on it, after the event, lol

If your really depressed mate by all means give it a shot, we are all different. I just really didn't like the prolactin going up, then you get no libido , half a lob on and I find that makes you more depressed lol.

Anyway mate, hope it can do something good for u. Good luck.


----------



## ElChapo

TERBO said:


> I know that would be of better benefit but currently not training due to overcoming illness. Have stopped all prescription meds, started TRT after nearly 3 years totally off and currently taking ashwagandha and 5HTP in the morning.


 I bet you with TRT and cardio, you will have no depression. Cardiovascular exercise is AS effective as anti-depressant drugs for a lot of people with no side effects, but tons of benefits.

I suggest 3-6 days a week, jog @ 5 MPH for 24 minutes, and walk 6 minutes for a total of 30 minutes. Listen to music or watch TV if cardio bores you (it does me)


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> Raises your prolactin mate, tried it didn't like it.
> 
> If you stay on to long your balance of prolactin to dopamine will change and you will be more prolactin dominant so you would want to add in something like l tyrosine to try and keep a balance.
> 
> If your on any 19nors I myself wouldnt touch it.


 This^ it seems 5-HTP can sometimes help, but there's weak evidence and some people say it stop working.

I strongly suggest regular cardiovascular exercise. It destroys depression thanks to upregulation of dopaminergic and serotonergic activity in the brain, release of brain derived neutrophic factor, endorphins, etc. Nothing is better for your mind and body. No supplement or drug.

You have to find the sweet spot for cardio. Too much will increase stress hormones and you won't stick with it. You gotta do a nice, light amount that you stay consistent with. I suggest 3-6 days a week, jog @ 5 MPH for 24 minutes, and walk 6 minutes for a total of 30 minutes.


----------



## darren.1987

when using tren would cardio on max incline at 6.5-7.5kph for 25-30 mins 4 x per week be enough to help with tren effecting it too much?

pm'ed you also regarding trt/cruise dosing


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> when using tren would cardio on max incline at 6.5-7.5kph for 25-30 mins 4 x per week be enough to help with tren effecting it too much?
> 
> pm'ed you also regarding trt/cruise dosing


 Yes, it will help a lot but tren will still take a toll on the heart if you use it for a long time.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo
Since 6 months I've got low abdomen bloat , I mean I'm quite lean ( maybe 11-12%) and have not much abs on my abs , I can't grab any only on the sides BUT my lower stomach is bloated constantly since some months .

I don't have gas or anything , at first I thought it was from having muscular abs but now I don't think so.

Could it be from tamoxifen long term use ? or AAS? it looks like there s some kind of fat under or idk , something pushing.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> Since 6 months I've got low abdomen bloat , I mean I'm quite lean ( maybe 11-12%) and have not much abs on my abs , I can't grab any only on the sides BUT my lower stomach is bloated constantly since some months .
> 
> I don't have gas or anything , at first I thought it was from having muscular abs but now I don't think so.
> 
> Could it be from tamoxifen long term use ? or AAS? it looks like there s some kind of fat under or idk , something pushing.


 Could be a food allergy, also, get leaner. There should be zero bloat at <9% and abs will be clear and defined. Some people need to be very lean to get ab definition and sometimes people hold visceral fat that puffs their stomach out from the inside.

Nolva and ralox can cause water retention, so that's another possibility.

I would say one of the three below:

1. Food allergy (milk, dairy, wheat, etc)

2. Visceral fat (Get leaner/ <9% bf)

3. Nolva/ralox COULD cause water retention


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Could be a food allergy, also, get leaner. There should be zero bloat at <9% and abs will be clear and defined. Some people need to be very lean to get ab definition and sometimes people hold visceral fat that puffs their stomach out from the inside.
> 
> Nolva and ralox can cause water retention, so that's another possibility.
> 
> I would say one of the three below:
> 
> 1. Food allergy (milk, dairy, wheat, etc)
> 
> 2. Visceral fat (Get leaner/ <9% bf)
> 
> 3. Nolva/ralox COULD cause water retention


 -I stopped taking Nolva 2 months ago for neurotoxicity , and I have to say that my cognition problems I had for 3-4 months are TOTALY gone , I remember people saying I was crazy to blame nolva for this , smh.
Since I made and still make a lot of researchs , I read that Nolva can stock visceral fat on the abdomen and now I'm really thinking it's from that , for a 2 years use (nolva/ralox).

The thing is I never used to have that problem even at 15% , I'm at 11-12% right now and I'll get leaner this next 3 months so let's see how it goes.

I'm sure it's visceral fat , but weird that I ve got that since I never used to get these problems even at higher bf .

Thanks for your help


----------



## CHRIS GW

How much truth is there to adrenal fatigue and its impact on physique goals? I drink a lot of coffee and I've read in a few cutting articles that too much caffeine can negatively affect your ability to lose fat. Is this true?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> -I stopped taking Nolva 2 months ago for neurotoxicity , and I have to say that my cognition problems I had for 3-4 months are TOTALY gone , I remember people saying I was crazy to blame nolva for this , smh.
> Since I made and still make a lot of researchs , I read that Nolva can stock visceral fat on the abdomen and now I'm really thinking it's from that , for a 2 years use (nolva/ralox).
> 
> The thing is I never used to have that problem even at 15% , I'm at 11-12% right now and I'll get leaner this next 3 months so let's see how it goes.
> 
> I'm sure it's visceral fat , but weird that I ve got that since I never used to get these problems even at higher bf .
> 
> Thanks for your help


 Genius always seems crazy when ahead of it's time.

Get to 9% or less and you should have no problem.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> How much truth is there to adrenal fatigue and its impact on physique goals? I drink a lot of coffee and I've read in a few cutting articles that too much caffeine can negatively affect your ability to lose fat. Is this true?


 Complete bullshit. The closest real thing to "adrenal fatigue" is chronic stress. Over training and over dieting can cause excess cortisol production and a burnt out CNS, this is why diet and training breaks are important.

High carb diet will keep stress levels lower. This is why people crave sweets, pastries, carbs when stressed out.


----------



## pma111

Would a 40.minute walk and then 35 mins excercise bike class as too much cardio per day/excessive/potentially counteractive to health? I like to walk back from work approx 3 miles at a steady ish pace but have plenty of energy still for a 35 mins on the spin bike as cardio around 6pm each night to work up a proper sweat. Concious too much may not be the best idea with your comments on raising stress hormones but I find this quite beneficial and feel good for it. I do it each day as I work in the city and its part of a daily routine,save money with transport etc. At weekends I prefer my walk fasted around 8.30 am but go for maybe 60 mins AM and then still my excercise bike PM again for 30-35. I feel energised after both rather than fatigued.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Would a 40.minute walk and then 35 mins excercise bike class as too much cardio per day/excessive? I like to walk back from work approx 3 miles at a steady ish pace but have plenty of energy for a 35 mins on the spin bike as cardio around 6pm each night to work up a proper sweat. Concious too much may not be the best idea with your comments on raising stress hormones but I find this quite beneficial and feel good for it. At weekends I prefer my walk fasted but go for maybe 60 mins AM and then still my excercise bike PM again for 30-35.


 If you keep BPM between 130-150 during the bike ride, you will be fine. I would cut it back to 30 mins.

If you feel good, keep doing it. Your body would tell you if it's too much. Poor sleep, impaired mood, etc.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> If you keep BPM between 130-150 during the bike ride, you will be fine. I would cut it back to 30 mins.
> 
> If you feel good, keep doing it. Your body would tell you if it's too much. Poor sleep, impaired mood, etc.


 Cheers. Any decent smart watches / gadgets you recommend for accurate bpm monitoring during any form of cardio. The bike claims to monitor it but I have my doubts on its accuracy. Would be useful to know what 130-150 feels and what kind of bpm my walks get me up too.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Cheers. Any decent smart watches / gadgets you recommend for accurate bpm monitoring during any form of cardio. The bike claims to monitor it but I have my doubts on its accuracy. Would be useful to know what 130-150 feels and what kind of bpm my walks get me up too.


 Nah, i would just on amazon and pick a cheap one with good reviews. The bike is usually very accurate anyways.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

How effective would you say HGH at 5 iu daily is for muscle/joint/tendon injuries?

And would you recommend anything else for healing?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo how to bring up lagging arms? When I was natural I used to way overtrain arms thinking that more was better. They never really grew whilst natural but have gained some size since using anabolics. Still only 16" in diameter when flexed. Any recommendations? was thinking to go with higher frequency (Mon/Wed/Fri) but low volume per session, e.g 6 sets for Biceps and 6 for triceps. Should I combine low and high reps or focus on contractions/squeezing?

thanks


----------



## Endomorph84

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo how to bring up lagging arms? When I was natural I used to way overtrain arms thinking that more was better. They never really grew whilst natural but have gained some size since using anabolics. Still only 16" in diameter when flexed. Any recommendations? was thinking to go with higher frequency (Mon/Wed/Fri) but low volume per session, e.g 6 sets for Biceps and 6 for triceps. Should I combine low and high reps or focus on contractions/squeezing?
> 
> thanks


 Good question mate, I had this problem. I never used to train arms directly believe it or not (. )(. ) < they're eyes lol.

Be good to see what he says, hopefully its what I have done/ am doing.


----------



## Baka

@El Chapo

What you think about taking daily probiotics for life ?

Since gut is relied a lot to the brain function , and mental health , would taking probiotics benefits even people who eat healthy already?

Does steroids or testosterone only affect the guts function negatively ?

I used to take probiotics everyday for 6 months , then stopped because I had no money but I remember while taking them I had 0 digestive problems.

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> How effective would you say HGH at 5 iu daily is for muscle/joint/tendon injuries?
> 
> And would you recommend anything else for healing?


 0.6 IU/kg/day is the dose used in some studies for wound healing and it worked. I'd say 2-4 IU will do the job.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo how to bring up lagging arms? When I was natural I used to way overtrain arms thinking that more was better. They never really grew whilst natural but have gained some size since using anabolics. Still only 16" in diameter when flexed. Any recommendations? was thinking to go with higher frequency (Mon/Wed/Fri) but low volume per session, e.g 6 sets for Biceps and 6 for triceps. Should I combine low and high reps or focus on contractions/squeezing?
> 
> thanks


 You need to be in a caloric surplus (like 500 calories over maintenance) and focus on getting higher weight and higher reps with GOOD form on your dumbbell curls. If you are curling 40's for 8 reps, you want to bring that up to 40 x 10, then 40 x 12, then 50 x 8, 50 x 10, etc. You have to push the limits of your bicep muscle to force it to grow. It won't grow if you don't give it a reason to. 2-3 per week is plenty of frequency, but focus all your energy on increasing weight and reps.

The other good way to break a growth plateau on biceps is weighted chin ups. These will let you hit your biceps with very heavy weight without straining the elbows like heavy barbell curls do.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What you think about taking daily probiotics for life ?
> 
> Since gut is relied a lot to the brain function , and mental health , would taking probiotics benefits even people who eat healthy already?
> 
> Does steroids or testosterone only affect the guts function negatively ?
> 
> I used to take probiotics everyday for 6 months , then stopped because I had no money but I remember while taking them I had 0 digestive problems.
> 
> Cheers


 They aren't high on my supplements list honestly. There is some research supporting them. You can toss them into your stack but i've never been impressed.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> They aren't high on my supplements list honestly. There is some research supporting them. You can toss them into your stack but i've never been impressed.


 Ok , What Is your top 10 supplements list ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Ok , What Is your top 10 supplements list ?


 Cardiovascular exercise

Excellent multivitamin ( Now Foods True Balance)

Vitamin D3

Vitamin K2 (MK7)

Magnesium/Zinc

Coffee

BCAA

Low dose cialis (2.5-10 mg per week total)

Pycnogenol or pine bark extract

Curcumin


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Cardiovascular exercise
> 
> Excellent multivitamin ( Now Foods True Balance)
> 
> Vitamin D3
> 
> Vitamin K2 (MK7)
> 
> Magnesium/Zinc
> 
> Coffee
> 
> BCAA
> 
> Low dose cialis (2.5-10 mg per week total)
> 
> Pycnogenol or pine bark extract
> 
> Curcumin


 Cialis is viagra right? Had no idea it was healthy

Gives a pretty decent boner tho


----------



## pma111

Pine bark is quite a lot cheaper than Pycnogenol.. I like to use now foods supplements, good value on iherb. Is there any reason why there is such a difference in cost, or is Pycnogenol a proprietary formula. If they are both equal in terms of anti oxidant and anti inflammatory then pine bark works out a lot better value, it would seem.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Pine bark is quite a lot cheaper than Pycnogenol.. I like to use now foods supplements, good value on iherb. Is there any reason why there is such a difference in cost, or is Pycnogenol a proprietary formula. If they are both equal in terms of anti oxidant and anti inflammatory then pine bark works out a lot better value, it would seem.


 Pycnogenol is trade marked and comes from a forest in France with special protections.

Pine bark extract comes from China, the bark has similar anti-oxidant and special properties but as you know, China has a pollution problem and the trees can suck it up.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> BCAA


 How come BCAA champ but not EAA?

Thanks


----------



## Redsy

Update after my hernia op. I have a haematoma on the wound, its going down each day but still size of an apple. That explains probably why HCT was down to 37%. Took reading today and its 51% so seem to have recovered. The meter seems pretty good TBH but suppose i would only know if compared at same time as some bloods.

Back at gym, very lightly and doing exercises where i don't feel any stress on area, mainly machines. Surgeon doesn't seem keen though me doing anything for another 3weeks. Seems over the top. Sure GH is helping me heal well and quickly. Super motivated for 2019 so killing me not doing anything, but don't want to be stupid.

I took advice and just started TRT dose 150mg/week test P, jabbed Mon/Thurs. Used slin pin in VG, took at bit to draw up and pin, but really pip free. I know you said your fine Mon/Thurs with test P. Do you reckon majority are? How would i know on feel if i would be better splitting dose to 3x/week without bloods?

I am going to try low dose cialis/vidalista. What you dose and frequency wise. you reckon 5mg x 2 / week? Should this help cardio? Cialis better than viagra for cardio benefits?

Thanks as always


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> How come BCAA champ but not EAA?
> 
> Thanks


 They both do the job.

+15 grams/Tablespoon pre-workout or with lunch.

Decreased muscle soreness, improved recovery/decreased soreness, enhanced workout performance, and less need for protein in the diet so you can eat more carbs/foods that you enjoy.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Cardiovascular exercise
> 
> Excellent multivitamin ( Now Foods True Balance)
> 
> Vitamin D3
> 
> Vitamin K2 (MK7)
> 
> Magnesium/Zinc
> 
> Coffee
> 
> BCAA
> 
> Low dose cialis (2.5-10 mg per week total)
> 
> Pycnogenol or pine bark extract
> 
> Curcumin


 Nice , I'm taking all aside from Pycnogenol or pine bark extract and the multivitamin.

You didn't mention Omega 3 , not one of the best things to take mostly for AAS users?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Cialis is viagra right? Had no idea it was healthy
> 
> Gives a pretty decent boner tho


 Cialis and viagra are very similar. They are like cousin drugs.

Viagra is stronger but it lasts a lot less time. It typically last 2-4 hours, although it can work for a bit longer sometimes.

Cialis is more mild, so less side effects and it can last 3 days. Cialis is the better compound overall.

Cialis and viagra can reverse endothelial damage (arteries/blood vessels), it improves circulation via increase in nitric oxide in the blood stream.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> They both do the job.
> 
> +15 grams/Tablespoon pre-workout or with lunch.
> 
> Decreased muscle soreness, improved recovery/decreased soreness, enhanced workout performance, and less need for protein in the diet so you can eat more carbs/foods that you enjoy.


 Is it worth the $ for people on cycle ?

I stopped taking BCAA and a lot of supplements since I started taking low dose test , I always thought that the help was so minimal that it would be useless on cycle


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> They both do the job.
> 
> Decreased muscle soreness, improved recovery/decreased soreness, enhanced workout performance, and less need for protein in the diet so you can eat more carbs/foods that you enjoy.


 I take EAAs already, I definitely feel the benefit RE: muscle soreness.

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Update after my hernia op. I have a haematoma on the wound, its going down each day but still size of an apple. That explains probably why HCT was down to 37%. Took reading today and its 51% so seem to have recovered. The meter seems pretty good TBH but suppose i would only know if compared at same time as some bloods.
> 
> Back at gym, very lightly and doing exercises where i don't feel any stress on area, mainly machines. Surgeon doesn't seem keen though me doing anything for another 3weeks. Seems over the top. Sure GH is helping me heal well and quickly. Super motivated for 2019 so killing me not doing anything, but don't want to be stupid.
> 
> I took advice and just started TRT dose 150mg/week test P, jabbed Mon/Thurs. Used slin pin in VG, took at bit to draw up and pin, but really pip free. I know you said your fine Mon/Thurs with test P. Do you reckon majority are? How would i know on feel if i would be better splitting dose to 3x/week without bloods?
> 
> I am going to try low dose cialis/vidalista. What you dose and frequency wise. you reckon 5mg x 2 / week? Should this help cardio? Cialis better than viagra for cardio benefits?
> 
> Thanks as always


 It's up to you if you want x 2-3 per week. You can experiment.

5 mg x 2 per week cialis is more than enough, especially for someone with a healthy circulatory system. It won't help cardio, it's just good for circulation/erections.

Cialis is better. Viagra half-life is too short.


----------



## zariph

Not sure if you can answer this but I have some expired magnumpharma gear, when I try to authenticate it via serial number+ code, it says wrong serial number, although when I try to authenticate it with the QR scan code, it checks out. Do you think its legit gear allthough SN+code didnt work?

Could this be because the gear has expired so the serial number get deleted from database but QR code stay in system?


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> It's up to you if you want x 2-3 per week. You can experiment.
> 
> 5 mg x 2 per week cialis is more than enough, especially for someone with a healthy circulatory system. It won't help cardio, it's just good for circulation/erections.
> 
> Cialis is better. Viagra half-life is too short.


 I have been taking half a tab cialis(10mg ed) as that was what I was reccomended. I see you mention 5mg twice a week is more than enough. Is there risks associated with taking too much?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Not sure if you can answer this but I have some expired magnumpharma gear, when I try to authenticate it via serial number+ code, it says wrong serial number, although when I try to authenticate it with the QR scan code, it checks out. Do you think its legit gear allthough SN+code didnt work?
> 
> Could this be because the gear has expired so the serial number get deleted from database but QR code stay in system?


 No clue, what AAS is it? Expiration doesn't mean anything. It will still work fine as long as it's not bunk.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I have been taking half a tab cialis(10mg ed) as that was what I was reccomended. I see you mention 5mg twice a week is more than enough. Is there risks associated with taking too much?


 Yes, taking too much can increase side effects like nasal congestion, flu like symptoms, headache, etc.

10 mg daily would be for someone with severe ED. It's a VERY high dosage and ridiculous unless your pecker isn't working.

5 mg daily is actually the full medically prescribed dose for erectile dysfunction.

Men with healthy circulation and no ED can use as little as 5 mg to 10 mg PER WEEK for circulation and erection improvement.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Is it worth the $ for people on cycle ?
> 
> I stopped taking BCAA and a lot of supplements since I started taking low dose test , I always thought that the help was so minimal that it would be useless on cycle


 It's not worth it if you get plenty of protein but it can help with recovery and muscle soreness even if you get lots of protein.

I recommend it for people who don't eat a lot of protein, and people who do fasted training.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Nice , I'm taking all aside from Pycnogenol or pine bark extract and the multivitamin.
> 
> You didn't mention Omega 3 , not one of the best things to take mostly for AAS users?


 Omega-3 is overrated in my opinion but it's not a bad supplement. Just make sure it's very good quality, the cheap rancid crap is no good.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No clue, what AAS is it? Expiration doesn't mean anything. It will still work fine as long as it's not bunk.


 Its just Test mate. But im a bit confused whether its bunk or not since QR code checks out but Serial+pin doesnt.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Its just Test mate. But im a bit confused whether its bunk or not since QR code checks out but Serial+pin doesnt.


 Unlikely to be bunk if it's testosterone, how much do you have of it?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Unlikely to be bunk if it's testosterone, how much do you have of it?


 Got a few packs, but not gonna run it if its counterfiet, when the QRscan checks out, would you think its gtg?


----------



## Frandeman

zariph said:


> Got a few packs, but not gonna run it if its counterfiet, when the QRscan checks out, would you think its gtg?


 Buy direct from the lab

You won't have those problems


----------



## zariph

Frandeman said:


> Buy direct from the lab
> 
> You won't have those problems


 They dont sell direct tho


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Got a few packs, but not gonna run it if its counterfiet, when the QRscan checks out, would you think its gtg?


 What's a few packs? If it's a little bit, i would just blast it with other stuff.

If you have a lot, take some, do a total testosterone blood test to confirm authenticity. Done.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Yes, taking too much can increase side effects like nasal congestion, flu like symptoms, headache, etc.
> 
> 10 mg daily would be for someone with severe ED. It's a VERY high dosage and ridiculous unless your pecker isn't working.
> 
> 5 mg daily is actually the full medically prescribed dose for erectile dysfunction.
> 
> Men with healthy circulation and no ED can use as little as 5 mg to 10 mg PER WEEK for circulation and erection improvement.


 Thanks for that! Going to save me a few quid aswell.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Thanks for that! Going to save me a few quid aswell.


 No problem, you can pop 2.5 - 5 mg x 2 per week. The half-life is pretty long.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Fad diets, tons of crap is popular, doesn't make it effective. Low fat diets, low carb diets, it all goes in and out of style and it's all bullshit. The only thing that matters is a caloric deficit or surplus. High carbs is optimal for mood AND performance. This is basic physiology and exercise science. High carb intake stimulates T4 conversion to T3 as well.
> 
> High carbs = High LEPTIN/T3 / High GLYCOGEN / high serotonin = faster metabolism, better mood, stronger/fuller muscles.
> 
> Low carb/keto = Low LEPTIN/T3 / Low GLYCOGEN / low serotonin = Garbage mood, garbage performance,


 Brilliant, thanks for the detailed response.

Are there any supplements you recommend for digestive health?

I always get constipation when I'm on low calories.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Brilliant, thanks for the detailed response.
> 
> Are there any supplements you recommend for digestive health?
> 
> I always get constipation when I'm on low calories.
> 
> Thanks


 It's normal for intestinal motility to slow down during a cut since overall metabolism/T3/etc is down regulated. Just drink lots of water and coffee. You don't have to go to the bathroom for #2 everyday either. Don't worry about it.


----------



## Big Ian

SoberHans said:


> Brilliant, thanks for the detailed response.
> 
> Are there any supplements you recommend for digestive health?
> 
> I always get constipation when I'm on low calories.
> 
> Thanks


 I know I'm not elchapo but I get the same problem, especially when throwing caffeine and other stimulants in the mix on top and I find two teaspoons of ground flax/linseed works an absolute treat and get some good omega 3's in as an added bonus. I get mine from myprotein.


----------



## 6083

@ElChapo

Ive been running 50mcg T3 and 80mcg clen recently and after a few days use I get horrendous headaches which even painkillers hardly touch.

What in your opinion might be the cause of this, blood pressure?

How would you advise apart from reducing dosage can I combat this?

I recall from my past I got the same with just T3 if I went upto 100mcg


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> Cardiovascular exercise
> 
> Excellent multivitamin ( Now Foods True Balance)
> 
> Vitamin D3
> 
> Vitamin K2 (MK7)
> 
> Magnesium/Zinc
> 
> Coffee
> 
> BCAA
> 
> Low dose cialis (2.5-10 mg per week total)
> 
> Pycnogenol or pine bark extract
> 
> Curcumin


 Quick question please.

In am earlier AMA thread, either yourself or possably @ghost.recon advised 5 mg daily cialis for endothelial health.

Looking back at my notes, it was advised as health support, along with Arimidex, VitD, TUDCA, Coq10, pycnogenol and curcumin when running a cycle of Test/ winny / tren cycle.

When comparing that to your recent advice, 10mg vs 35mg a week is a big jump.

Is Calis at c5mg E3D your recommendation all the year round? Or only if natty or when cruising ?

And would you increase it if on a cycle? if so to what level?


----------



## pma111

Do you think there is any credibility in a theory that a bad infection e.g in the stomach/intestines if unresolved over time could also increase risk of heart disease. I was thinking back to your comments re its not cholesterol that is the big risk factor its inflammation that make you more prone to plaque formation. I assume a common side effect of most major infections is inflammation which spread throughout your body not just the infected area - therefore making you possibly more prone to heart disease/plaque formation. My understanding was a lot of symptoms you get during say a cold/flu virus are actually symptoms on inflammation on not neccesarily the virus itself.

What other issues make you more prone to major inflammation in the body. I assume allergies are another toward the top of the list.

From what I read recently there is possibly a bacterial/infection/allergy factor in many autoimmune issues e.g. crohns, arthritis. Any truth in this?

Im sure curcumin etc help dampen down the flames but presumably figuring out the source of system wide inflammation is the key goal for overall health/reducing heart risk.

Could high inflammation also raise blood pressure, and if so but what mechanism?


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Ive been running 50mcg T3 and 80mcg clen recently and after a few days use I get horrendous headaches which even painkillers hardly touch.
> 
> What in your opinion might be the cause of this, blood pressure?
> 
> How would you advise apart from reducing dosage can I combat this?
> 
> I recall from my past I got the same with just T3 if I went upto 100mcg


 This can happen from T3 and clen.

Do you drink coffee? Caffeine is good for headaches. 250 mg tablet or 1-2 strong cups of coffee.

I would also invest in an omron blood pressure cuff so you can keep an eye on that.


----------



## ElChapo

BestBefore1989 said:


> Quick question please.
> 
> In am earlier AMA thread, either yourself or possably @ghost.recon advised 5 mg daily cialis for endothelial health.
> 
> Looking back at my notes, it was advised as health support, along with Arimidex, VitD, TUDCA, Coq10, pycnogenol and curcumin when running a cycle of Test/ winny / tren cycle.
> 
> When comparing that to your recent advice, 10mg vs 35mg a week is a big jump.
> 
> Is Calis at c5mg E3D your recommendation all the year round? Or only if natty or when cruising ?
> 
> And would you increase it if on a cycle? if so to what level?


 10 mg per week is used as a circulation support supplement.

35 mg per week is more for making erections stronger, especially for cycles where erections may take a hit like tren/deca.

You can do 5-10 mg year round. on or off cycle. It's just used as a supplement.

I would increase to 35 mg if your cycle is affecting your erections.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

What do you think of cinnamon oil supplement for collagen and igf 1?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22233457/

I can upload the whole study if you want


----------



## BestBefore1989

ElChapo said:


> 10 mg per week is used as a circulation support supplement.
> 
> 35 mg per week is more for making erections stronger, especially for cycles where erections may take a hit like tren/deca.
> 
> You can do 5-10 mg year round. on or off cycle. It's just used as a supplement.
> 
> I would increase to 35 mg if your cycle is affecting your erections.


 Thanks


----------



## SoberHans

If someone was on a cruise dose of 200mg sustanon per week and they were going on holiday for just over 2 weeks, what would be best way to keep test levels from dropping too much?

Could they inject double the day they go or would they be better off just taking some with them and inject twice a week as normal?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> What do you think of cinnamon oil supplement for collagen and igf 1?
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22233457/
> 
> I can upload the whole study if you want


 Cinnamon is an interesting compound it's been proven to help increase insulin sensitivity, but studies like that need to be taken with a grain of a salt. It seems to be an in vitro aka test tube or done on cells. In vivo study on a living organism would be better.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Do you think there is any credibility in a theory that a bad infection e.g in the stomach/intestines if unresolved over time could also increase risk of heart disease. I was thinking back to your comments re its not cholesterol that is the big risk factor its inflammation that make you more prone to plaque formation. I assume a common side effect of most major infections is inflammation which spread throughout your body not just the infected area - therefore making you possibly more prone to heart disease/plaque formation. My understanding was a lot of symptoms you get during say a cold/flu virus are actually symptoms on inflammation on not neccesarily the virus itself.
> 
> What other issues make you more prone to major inflammation in the body. I assume allergies are another toward the top of the list.
> 
> From what I read recently there is possibly a bacterial/infection/allergy factor in many autoimmune issues e.g. crohns, arthritis. Any truth in this?
> 
> Im sure curcumin etc help dampen down the flames but presumably figuring out the source of system wide inflammation is the key goal for overall health/reducing heart risk.
> 
> Could high inflammation also raise blood pressure, and if so but what mechanism?


 Chronic inflammation wouldn't likely be a significant factor in developing those issues. Like you said, inflammation can be a cause AND a symptom causer in things like flu and cold. It's part of the reason you feel pain with PIP and injury.

High inflammation wouldn't raise blood pressure, but if this inflammation, say from really bad PIP, caused signficant pain, this would increase blood pressure by turning on the sympathetic nervous system AKA "fight or flight" which pumps out cortisol, adrenaline , etc.

Curcumin has been shown to have efficacy similar to ibuprofen in high enough doses. Honestly, inflammation and autoimmune disorders are still kind of a mystery, and complicated to treat because you are basically fighting against your own body/immune system.

Things you can do to limit inflammation is not be obese (fat cells produced inflammatory cytokines, theorized to be one of the reasons being fat increases cancer risk, heart disease, etc), doing cardio strongly improves your body's ability to fight oxidation too.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> If someone was on a cruise dose of 200mg sustanon per week and they were going on holiday for just over 2 weeks, what would be best way to keep test levels from dropping too much?
> 
> Could they inject double the day they go or would they be better off just taking some with them and inject twice a week as normal?
> 
> Thanks


 Ideally you would take it with you, fill some insulin pins.

Otherwise a double dose would work, but if you are predisposed to gyno be careful.

You likely wouldn't really feel 2 weeks completely off test anyways.


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> Ideally you would take it with you, fill some insulin pins.
> 
> Otherwise a double dose would work, but if you are predisposed to gyno be careful.
> 
> You likely wouldn't really feel 2 weeks completely off test anyways.


 Do you happen to know anything of the allowances of taking anabolics abroad. Here in the UK steroids are perfectly legal without prescription as long as the amount is considered personal use. If for example flying within the EU (to Spain), do you think there'd be a problem taking a bottle of testosterone and some needles/syringes? I know you're from the US so no problem if you don't have a clue.


----------



## Matt6210

Sam R said:


> Do you happen to know anything of the allowances of taking anabolics abroad. Here in the UK steroids are perfectly legal without prescription as long as the amount is considered personal use. If for example flying within the EU (to Spain), do you think there'd be a problem taking a bottle of testosterone and some needles/syringes? I know you're from the US so no problem if you don't have a clue.


 If it's a ugl it's illegal here, counterfeit goods.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

It's been 3 weeks I'm doing 25 min cardio 4-5 times a week after my long training session and I have to say that I feel healthier and happier already.

I hate cardio but when it give you a small euphoria feeling from the endorphine secretion it makes you want to continue.

Anyway , my question was :

-What do you think about T3 use in Bodybuilding ?

2016-2017 I stayed 16 months on T3 on 25mcg , I also did 2 months on 50mcg and I remember having some sides like lethargy , tremors , more anxiety then normal and really bad sweating during workouts but that's 'normal' sides.

Since I stopped because I had bad hair loss and I told myself that T3 use ( hyperthyroism ) contribute to hair loss , like steroid use.

It's been some months I stopped , and yea I still have hair loss from test use but I know it's not T3 at least.

I'm thinking of using T3 in February / march for 2 months for my cut , I m already cutting right now on test 200mg / w.

I know T3 helped me lose fat even on 25-30mcg , and I was thinking of using 37.5-50mcg for 2 months on a calorie deficit of 300-500cal + cardio.

What do you think about this ? is 2 months use may be bad for hair , heart etc or it's not long enough ?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Do you happen to know anything of the allowances of taking anabolics abroad. Here in the UK steroids are perfectly legal without prescription as long as the amount is considered personal use. If for example flying within the EU (to Spain), do you think there'd be a problem taking a bottle of testosterone and some needles/syringes? I know you're from the US so no problem if you don't have a clue.


 No idea, you can also take some winstrol and just pop a tab every day while you are away.


----------



## adam28

What lowest amount of test you would use for an aggressive cut?

Cheers mate


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> Chronic inflammation wouldn't likely be a significant factor in developing those issues. Like you said, inflammation can be a cause AND a symptom causer in things like flu and cold. It's part of the reason you feel pain with PIP and injury.
> 
> High inflammation wouldn't raise blood pressure, but if this inflammation, say from really bad PIP, caused signficant pain, this would increase blood pressure by turning on the sympathetic nervous system AKA "fight or flight" which pumps out cortisol, adrenaline , etc.
> 
> Curcumin has been shown to have efficacy similar to ibuprofen in high enough doses. Honestly, inflammation and autoimmune disorders are still kind of a mystery, and complicated to treat because you are basically fighting against your own body/immune system.
> 
> Things you can do to limit inflammation is not be obese (fat cells produced inflammatory cytokines, theorized to be one of the reasons being fat increases cancer risk, heart disease, etc), doing cardio strongly improves your body's ability to fight oxidation too.


 Thank you. What sort of dose of curcumin are needed to get an effect equal to ibuprofen.


----------



## Vinny

Hi pal,

Can acid reflex medication such as lansoprazole have a negative affect om digestion when consuming large amounts of food? (3500-4500kcals)


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What cause bodybuilder s stomach extension ?

Is it really HGH/insulin use and the fact that they eat so much food ?

Or is it from AAS long term use , organs growth from peptides/HGH?

OR maybe some Gut problems ?


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> What lowest amount of test you would use for an aggressive cut?
> 
> Cheers mate


 300 mg


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Thank you. What sort of dose of curcumin are needed to get an effect equal to ibuprofen.


2g of Meriva (curcumin phytosomes, conferring 400mg curcumin) is what i've seen.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Hi pal,
> 
> Can acid reflex medication such as lansoprazole have a negative affect om digestion when consuming large amounts of food? (3500-4500kcals)


 You need stomach acid to breakdown food properly so i would say yes.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What cause bodybuilder s stomach extension ?
> 
> Is it really HGH/insulin use and the fact that they eat so much food ?
> 
> Or is it from AAS long term use , organs growth from peptides/HGH?
> 
> OR maybe some Gut problems ?


 I believe it's possibly organ growth and even visceral fat accumulation. I believe it's the insulin/GH.


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> You need stomach acid to breakdown food properly so i would say yes.


 That might explain my stomach trouble I had when I was bulking.

Would you recommend any alternatives? Will talk to my GP.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> That might explain my stomach trouble I had when I was bulking.
> 
> Would you recommend any alternatives? Will talk to my GP.


 You need to avoid cialis and viagra, try to sleep with at least a little elevation with your pillow, drink lots of water, and do cardio.

Tums/calcium tabs are really good too.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> 300 mg


 Could you list the "must do's" needed to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting?

Going to be starting a serious cut in a month or two ready for summer, got a good amount of fat to lose, like I could probably easily lose a couple stone mainly on my gut, but obviously want to keep as much of my gains as possible in the process, I never really got myself to a decent BF% before I started training so have just been adding to it

Cheers


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> You need to avoid cialis and viagra, try to sleep with at least a little elevation with your pillow, drink lots of water, and do cardio.
> 
> Tums/calcium tabs are really good too.


 Thanks @El Chapo

Do take the odd 10mg Cialis so will cut that out. Cutting at the moment so water and cardio are on the up.

I was drinking like 2 litres of milk through the day when bulking, would more calcium in tablet form be beneficial do you think?


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> Could you list the "must do's" needed to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting?
> 
> Going to be starting a serious cut in a month or two ready for summer, got a good amount of fat to lose, like I could probably easily lose a couple stone mainly on my gut, but obviously want to keep as much of my gains as possible in the process, I never really got myself to a decent BF% before I started training so have just been adding to it
> 
> Cheers


 1 .1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass or supplement BCAA if eating less than that. (15 grams or 1 tablespoon daily)

2. Maintain the same intensity of training but lower volume. If you bench 225 lbs for 12 reps after bulking, you want to maintain 225 lbs x 12 through your cut. If you start losing a lot of reps and strength, you are losing muscle. If you maintain most or all of your strength, you are not losing muscle. Cut back on the sets but keep the weight/reps the same, hitting each muscle group just once a week will maintain muscle during a cut.

You should be able to maintain 90-100% of your muscle, if you eat high carb during your cut, you won't look flat and feel weak which many people mistake for muscle loss and they panic and stop cutting.

I always recommend staying at or under 15% year round. I would not bulk past 15%.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Thanks @El Chapo
> 
> Do take the odd 10mg Cialis so will cut that out. Cutting at the moment so water and cardio are on the up.
> 
> I was drinking like 2 litres of milk through the day when bulking, would more calcium in tablet form be beneficial do you think?


 Yeah, the tums are a form of calcium that will quickly neutralize excess stomach acid when you need it.

Milk has a bunch of stuff in it like fat/lactose/proteins that can get in the way of the dairy calcium from doing the same as tums.


----------



## zariph

If some1 gets joint issues running winstrol, what would you recommen to do? Which other injectable or oral would you suggest for a masscycle?

Also why are mast or provirion not include in every cycle? Isn't free T the most important thing for building tissue?


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> 1 .1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass or supplement BCAA if eating less than that. (15 grams or 1 tablespoon daily)
> 
> 2. Maintain the same intensity of training but lower volume. If you bench 225 lbs for 12 reps after bulking, you want to maintain 225 lbs x 12 through your cut. If you start losing a lot of reps and strength, you are losing muscle. If you maintain most or all of your strength, you are not losing muscle. Cut back on the sets but keep the weight/reps the same, hitting each muscle group just once a week will maintain muscle during a cut.
> 
> You should be able to maintain 90-100% of your muscle, if you eat high carb during your cut, you won't look flat and feel weak which many people mistake for muscle loss and they panic and stop cutting.
> 
> I always recommend staying at or under 15% year round. I would not bulk past 15%.


 Thanks for that, and is there a limit of how much of a calorie deficit I can eat? 500kcals under maintenance per day max or can I go more?


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> Thanks for that, and is there a limit of how much of a calorie deficit I can eat? 500kcals under maintenance per day max or can I go more?


 Honestly, you can actually get away with some crazy deficits like 1,000 daily, but only if you are able to maintain enough training intensity to keep your weight/reps the same (most people can't do that).

A 500 calorie deficit is a balanced/moderate approach, you will aim to lose about 1 lbs of fat per week. This is the "weight loss" that counts. 1 lbs of fat is significant and adds up in weeks. You would be losing something like 2% body fat every 4 weeks with this approach.

Note that metabolic slowdown does happen, but not to a significant extent until you hit single digit body fat. If your fat loss stalls for longer than 3 weeks, reduce calories further by 250 or increase activity through cardio, exercise, etc. Sometimes it appears that you aren't losing fat or weight for 1-2 weeks but it's just water retention hiding the fat loss.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, you can actually get away with some crazy deficits like 1,000 daily, but only if you are able to maintain enough training intensity to keep your weight/reps the same (most people can't do that).
> 
> A 500 calorie deficit is a balanced/moderate approach, you will aim to lose about 1 lbs of fat per week. This is the "weight loss" that counts. 1 lbs of fat is significant and adds up in weeks.
> 
> Note that metabolic slowdown does happen, but not to a significant extent until you hit single digit body fat. If your fat loss stalls for longer than 3 weeks, reduce calories further by 250 or increase activity through cardio, exercise, etc. Sometimes it appears that you aren't losing fat or weight for 1-2 weeks but it's just water retention hiding the fat loss.


 Spot on mate, appreciate it


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, you can actually get away with some crazy deficits like 1,000 daily, but only if you are able to maintain enough training intensity to keep your weight/reps the same (most people can't do that).
> 
> A 500 calorie deficit is a balanced/moderate approach, you will aim to lose about 1 lbs of fat per week. This is the "weight loss" that counts. 1 lbs of fat is significant and adds up in weeks. You would be losing something like 2% body fat every 4 weeks with this approach.
> 
> Note that metabolic slowdown does happen, but not to a significant extent until you hit single digit body fat. If your fat loss stalls for longer than 3 weeks, reduce calories further by 250 or increase activity through cardio, exercise, etc. Sometimes it appears that you aren't losing fat or weight for 1-2 weeks but it's just water retention hiding the fat loss.


 Last question, promise lol

You said 300mg test minimum while cutting, is there a max AAS usage where it will start affecting fat loss during cutting?

or would more AAS = less muscle loss?


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> Last question, promise lol
> 
> You said 300mg test minimum while cutting, is there a max AAS usage where it will start affecting fat loss during cutting?
> 
> or would more AAS = less muscle loss?


 There's a point of diminishing returns. 300-600 mg will do the job for 90% of AAS users, you can push it to a gram if you want but 300 mg is usually enough.

If you are going to be doing a lot of cardio, i especially recommend 300 mg as anything higher starts to diminished cardiovascular capacity and increase risk of debilitating back and leg pumps from running.

Higher doses won't affect fat loss negatively, but if you take stuff like test , deca or dbol in high doses, the water retention can hide the fat loss that is happening.

My #1 recommend stack for cutting is 300 mg test prop per week and 50 mg winstrol daily. You will be very dry, vascular, strong and full of energy. Test prop is very dry and winstrol sucks water out of you.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> If some1 gets joint issues running winstrol, what would you recommen to do? Which other injectable or oral would you suggest for a masscycle?
> 
> Also why are mast or provirion not include in every cycle? Isn't free T the most important thing for building tissue?


 Superdrol, hands down. Lethargy and low appetite or common side effects but nothing in life is free.

NPP/Deca/Tren are great but sides include impaired mood, libido/erections, and gynecomastia.

No, masteron is a fairly weak steroid. It's more of a polisher with slight drying and pumping effect. Free T is not the most important thing when it comes to building muscle. You can build a lot of muscle on tren only, winstrol only, dbol only cycles. Proviron is more of a mood/libido enhancer.

High calories and progressive overload are 66.6% of building muscle, the remainder is rest/recovery = 100%.

AAS/Steroid/Insulin/GH/PEDs get you to +110% and beyond with faster muscle growth, recovery and more muscle than genetically possible.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> There's a point of diminishing returns. 300-600 mg will do the job for 90% of AAS users, you can push it to a gram if you want but 300 mg is usually enough.
> 
> If you are going to be doing a lot of cardio, i especially recommend 300 mg as anything higher starts to diminished cardiovascular capacity and increase risk of debilitating back and leg pumps from running.
> 
> Higher doses won't affect fat loss negatively, but if you take stuff like test , deca or dbol in high doses, the water retention can hide the fat loss that is happening.
> 
> My #1 recommend stack for cutting is 300 mg test prop per week and 50 mg winstrol daily. You will be very dry, vascular, strong and full of energy. Test prop is very dry and winstrol sucks water out of you.


 In that case I shall give your recommended stack a try  Cheers mate


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> My #1 recommend stack for cutting is 300 mg test prop per week and 50 mg winstrol daily. You will be very dry, vascular, strong and full of energy. Test prop is very dry and winstrol sucks water out of you.


 Quick question mate RE: winny.

How long is it safe to run the drug, does it need to be cycled? etc.

Thanks


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Superdrol, hands down. Lethargy and low appetite or common side effects but nothing in life is free.
> 
> No, masteron is a fairly weak steroid. It's more of a polisher with slight drying and pumping effect. Free T is not the most important thing when it comes to building muscle. You can build a lot of muscle on tren only, winstrol only, dbol only cycles. Proviron is more of a mood/libido enhancer.
> 
> High calories and progressive overload are 66.6% of building muscle, the remainder is rest/recovery = 100%.
> 
> AAS/Steroid/Insulin/GH/PEDs get you to +110% and beyond with faster muscle growth, recovery and more muscle than genetically possible.


 Great thx!

Does it matter how you dose winny and should it be taken with food? Also whats the lowest dose you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Quick question mate RE: winny.
> 
> How long is it safe to run the drug, does it need to be cycled? etc.
> 
> Thanks


 12 weeks is fine, you can run TUDCA or UDCA at 250 mg daily for extra insurance/liver protection.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great thx!
> 
> Does it matter how you dose winny and should it be taken with food? Also whats the lowest dose you recommend?


 Once daily, with or without food. Without food gets you better absorption from my experience.

25 mg daily is the lowest dose orally or 100 mg per week injectable.

Recommend 50-100 mg daily or 150-300 mg per week injectable.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Once daily, with or without food. Without food gets you better absorption from my experience.
> 
> 25 mg daily is the lowest dose orally or 100 mg per week injectable.
> 
> Recommend 50-100 mg daily or 150-300 mg per week injectable.


 Nice, could it be a good addition to add deca when running winstrol if winny makes your joints suffer? Could a dose as low as 200mg deca per week be usefull to help?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice, could it be a good addition to add deca when running winstrol if winny makes your joints suffer? Could a dose as low as 200mg deca per week be usefull to help?


 It's possible but i would just substitute for superdrol.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Superdrol and other orals kills one's lipids.

How long can it take after stopping the oral to recover (on 200mg test cruise) ?

For you , is it worth taking an oral for faster gains(strength & muscle) for crushing down lipids?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> You need to avoid cialis and viagra, try to sleep with at least a little elevation with your pillow, drink lots of water, and do cardio.
> 
> Tums/calcium tabs are really good too.


 Avod cialis is you have stomach issues? Or does it cause them?

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Avod cialis is you have stomach issues? Or does it cause them?
> 
> Cheers.


 Cialis increases the risk of gastric reflux due to relaxing the esophageal sphincter. The higher the dose, the more likely this is to happen.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Superdrol and other orals kills one's lipids.
> 
> How long can it take after stopping the oral to recover (on 200mg test cruise) ?
> 
> For you , is it worth taking an oral for faster gains(strength & muscle) for crushing down lipids?


 4-8 weeks for lipids to recover

Short term lipid changes will not have a long term effect on heart/cardiovascular health.

If you are one of the people who runs tren year round, then you will have a problem down the road. A short 1-3 month blast of winstrol isn't going to have any permanent effects on your body, but if you can keep the muscle & strength you gain from it, you are winning.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It's possible but i would just substitute for superdrol.


 Will do then!

Why is DHB not used in every cycle? I just heard about this steroid and it seems to have no side effects? Too good to be true huh?


----------



## Baka

zariph said:


> Will do then!
> 
> Why is DHB not used in every cycle? I just heard about this steroid and it seems to have no side effects? Too good to be true huh?


 I used it , I had side effects of high E2 ( bloated body + face , bad pain in nipple ) , was more vascular too and it got my hematocrit way too high in 6 weeks.

I was on my normal test dose of 250mg/w , didn't change anything just added the DHB; and I had to increase the AI dosage too.

Other guy here had bad depression on it so.. it's not side free


----------



## zariph

Baka said:


> I used it , I had side effects of high E2 ( bloated body + face , bad pain in nipple ) , was more vascular too and it got my hematocrit way too high in 6 weeks.
> 
> I was on my normal test dose of 250mg/w , didn't change anything just added the DHB; and I had to increase the AI dosage too.
> 
> Other guy here had bad depression on it so.. it's not side free


 well it shouldnt convert to e2? Which brand you used?


----------



## Baka

zariph said:


> well it shouldnt convert to e2? Which brand you used?


 DHB ? na . TM lab.

It's like anadrol doesn't convert but can give some E2 sides , or even Superdrol who gave me some gyno when I used it.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Will do then!
> 
> Why is DHB not used in every cycle? I just heard about this steroid and it seems to have no side effects? Too good to be true huh?


 It's still fairly new, availability is not high and PIP can be very high.


----------



## MOMO

@El Chapo

Hey Man, just out of interest,, what's your thoughts on running Sdrol and winni together

Eg. 50mg winni inject (AM) 10mg Sdrol pre work out (PM)

or perhaps 30mg winni 10mg Sdrol Tabs

or will this just smoke liver values too high?

And crash lipids to dangerous levels?

Thanks Buddy


----------



## ElChapo

MOMO said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hey Man, just out of interest,, what's your thoughts on running Sdrol and winni together
> 
> Eg. 50mg winni inject (AM) 10mg Sdrol pre work out (PM)
> 
> or perhaps 30mg winni 10mg Sdrol Tabs
> 
> or will this just smoke liver values too high?
> 
> And crash lipids to dangerous levels?
> 
> Thanks Buddy


 That would work fine. People have a misconception that mixing orals makes them more toxic. It doesn't. Total overall mg and time on orals will affect toxicity. Combinations make no difference.


----------



## pma111

The suggested dose of now foods true balance 2 tabs x2 a day equates to 100mcg of k2 mk7 which is the same as that in life extension super k. Does that mean that would be sufficient e.g. no need to also buy super k tabs as well.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> The suggested dose of now foods true balance 2 tabs x2 a day equates to 100mcg of k2 mk7 which is the same as that in life extension super k. Does that mean that would be sufficient e.g. no need to also buy super k tabs as well.


 Yep, i take separate Vitamin K2 anyways myself. A little extra won't hurt. Life extension super k is nice too because it has K1 and MK4 too.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I believe it's possibly organ growth and even visceral fat accumulation. I believe it's the insulin/GH.


 In relation to this topic, I am currently taking 5x HGH peptide shots (ipamorelin and mod grf) daily for injuries, and have done so for 6 months. Once I have, hopefully, fully recovered, Instead of stopping I am strongly considering just doing 1-2 shots daily, for a few extra iu. For better sleep, metabolism, well being and injury recovery.

This would be a permanent thing that I would not "come off".

longterm, would there be dangers in doing this? Like the enlarged GH gut, teeth, hands or jaw growing weirdly, or increased risk of cancer?


----------



## darren.1987

what's your top bulking stack?

I was thinking either tren or npp but unsure about test dose so wondered your thoughts?

would mast or proviron be more beneficial to help with mood/libido if using npp or tren


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> In relation to this topic, I am currently taking 5x HGH peptide shots (ipamorelin and mod grf) daily for injuries, and have done so for 6 months. Once I have, hopefully, fully recovered, Instead of stopping I am strongly considering just doing 1-2 shots daily, for a few extra iu. For better sleep, metabolism, well being and injury recovery.
> 
> This would be a permanent thing that I would not "come off".
> 
> longterm, would there be dangers in doing this? Like the enlarged GH gut, teeth, hands or jaw growing weirdly, or increased risk of cancer?


 It depends how high it's bringing up your GH, i doubt it. A good way to check is to look at your blood glucose levels, high blood sugar levels are a side effect of high GH levels.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> what's your top bulking stack?
> 
> I was thinking either tren or npp but unsure about test dose so wondered your thoughts?
> 
> would mast or proviron be more beneficial to help with mood/libido if using npp or tren


 I personally like high test p, high winstrol or superdrol. Better strength and dryness/vascularity than tren/deca. No gyno, mood problems, reduced cardio or sex issues. This is what works for me though, everyone has what works for them.

A lot of people find that either mast or proviron help with the moody/E2 like sides of tren and high E2.

To me, tren is overrated and not necessary in a cycle like some people seem to think.

You will usually get best results from equal test/ equal tren or npp but sides are usually higher. I've actually found higher test, lower tren to be more effective for mass and strength. Sides were lower too but everyone is different.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo i have half a vial of npp (southern ghost) that has been fully crashed (no liquid at all) for 6 months. Will this still be ok to use once i heat it up back to a liquid ?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo i have half a vial of npp (southern ghost) that has been fully crashed (no liquid at all) for 6 months. Will this still be ok to use once i heat it up back to a liquid ?


 Yep, it happens. Just microwave some water to very hot and place the vial inside the cup (not fully submerged).


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Yep, it happens. Just microwave some water to very hot and place the vial inside the cup (not fully submerged).


 thats what i usually do but seeing as this has been like this for 6 months since i last used it, would it still be ok to use now?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> thats what i usually do but seeing as this has been like this for 6 months since i last used it, would it still be ok to use now?


 Yeah, it's just crystalized powder. Once you re-dissolve it will be good as new. If it weren't dissolved in the oil/vial it would be a powder. It's 100% safe to use and potent.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> Yep, it happens. Just microwave some water to very hot and place the vial inside the cup (not fully submerged).


 Can also pop on top of radiator or in oven on less than 100 degrees and it goes back.. had this with some tren that was held at post office in freezing weather here in UK.



ElChapo said:


> I personally like high test p, high winstrol or superdrol. Better strength and dryness/vascularity than tren/deca. No gyno, mood problems, reduced cardio or sex issues. This is what works for me though, everyone has what works for them.
> 
> A lot of people find that either mast or proviron help with the moody/E2 like sides of tren and high E2.
> 
> To me, tren is overrated and not necessary in a cycle like some people seem to think.
> 
> You will usually get best results from equal test/ equal tren or npp but sides are usually higher. I've actually found higher test, lower tren to be more effective for mass and strength. Sides were lower too but everyone is different.


 Would npp give similar issues with mood and libido/sex issues? (I have a few vials of npp I haven't ever used)

I may try 500-750mg test and 200-300mg tren p/w.

if I add mast what's the lowest dose to use to help with sides?

although as il be bulking will need to see if tren effects my appetite this time around.. first couple of times it did not.. appetite went crazy.

maybe higher test would be better if I get any appetite issues this time round with the tren?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> It depends how high it's bringing up your GH, i doubt it. A good way to check is to look at your blood glucose levels, high blood sugar levels are a side effect of high GH levels.


 Thanks, will be sure to monitor.

High GH levels over a long time can cause trouble?


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> Can also pop on top of radiator or in oven on less than 100 degrees and it goes back.. had this with some tren that was held at post office in freezing weather here in UK.
> 
> Would npp give similar issues with mood and libido/sex issues? (I have a few vials of npp I haven't ever used)
> 
> I may try 500-750mg test and 200-300mg tren p/w.
> 
> if I add mast what's the lowest dose to use to help with sides?
> 
> although as il be bulking will need to see if tren effects my appetite this time around.. first couple of times it did not.. appetite went crazy.
> 
> maybe higher test would be better if I get any appetite issues this time round with the tren?


 High test / low tren is better for appetite most of the time.

NPP/Deca can affect mood/libido and cause gyno in some people. Everyone is different. Some people love it.

Throw in mast at 200-300 for Prop or 400-500 for E.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Thanks, will be sure to monitor.
> 
> High GH levels over a long time can cause trouble?


 Insulin resistance, carpal tunnel, water retention, etc. There's no point in very high GH levels unless you use insulin and want lots of mass.

You are using peptides so we dont know how much extra GH you will he secreting.


----------



## cell-tech

darren.1987 said:


> Can also pop on top of radiator or in oven on less than 100 degrees and it goes back.. had this with some tren that was held at post office in freezing weather here in UK.
> 
> Would npp give similar issues with mood and libido/sex issues? (I have a few vials of npp I haven't ever used)
> 
> I may try 500-750mg test and 200-300mg tren p/w.
> 
> if I add mast what's the lowest dose to use to help with sides?
> 
> although as il be bulking will need to see if tren effects my appetite this time around.. first couple of times it did not.. appetite went crazy.
> 
> maybe higher test would be better if I get any appetite issues this time round with the tren?


 npp is best drug ive ever used and for some reason sends my sex drive crazy on only 150mg test and 400mg npp. im convinced that sex drive has more to do with keeping your estrogen in range and at that dose test i dont need an ai. ive used 500mg test and had low test drive because of high and low estrogen. @ElChapo is deca dick a myth because as long as my estrogen is in range ive never suffered, in fact its been the opposite


----------



## Rob27

@ElChapo

Hi mate. Been off cycle a year, i know hormones balance themselves out when returning, is it possible for e2 to be still high with a test level 13.1nmol after a year off? Going to go back on February and blast and cruise, all my bloods came back in range, didn't get e2 done though, so is it worth restesting e2 before going back on? I have no symptoms of high e2 just short of patience which i dont get when on cycle which could be either the low test although its in range but lower end of the scale or I'm thinking e2 maybe? My strength is still going up even being natural with that test level so I'm leaning towards e2 but not 100% sure?

Thanks.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

It's been 3 weeks I'm doing 25 min cardio 4-5 times a week after my long training session and I have to say that I feel healthier and happier already.

I hate cardio but when it give you a small euphoria feeling from the endorphine secretion it makes you want to continue.

Anyway , my question was :

-What do you think about T3 use in Bodybuilding ?

2016-2017 I stayed 16 months on T3 on 25mcg , I also did 2 months on 50mcg and I remember having some sides like lethargy , tremors , more anxiety then normal and really bad sweating during workouts but that's 'normal' sides.

Since I stopped because I had bad hair loss and I told myself that T3 use ( hyperthyroism ) contribute to hair loss , like steroid use.

It's been some months I stopped , and yea I still have hair loss from test use but I know it's not T3 at least.

I'm thinking of using T3 in February / march for 2 months for my cut , I m already cutting right now on test 200mg / w.

I know T3 helped me lose fat even on 25-30mcg , and I was thinking of using 37.5-50mcg for 2 months on a calorie deficit of 300-500cal + cardio.

What do you think about this ? is 2 months use may be bad for hair , heart etc or it's not long enough ?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> npp is best drug ive ever used and for some reason sends my sex drive crazy on only 150mg test and 400mg npp. im convinced that sex drive has more to do with keeping your estrogen in range and at that dose test i dont need an ai. ive used 500mg test and had low test drive because of high and low estrogen. @ElChapo is deca dick a myth because as long as my estrogen is in range ive never suffered, in fact its been the opposite


 That's what i'm saying, you love nandrolone. My friend hates it, i think it's okay but can easily give me gyno because i'm sensitive to it. It's also a great female compound.

Deca dick is not a myth, it just doesn't happen to everyone. It CAN be independent of E2 but i believe it's linked to the progestin activity of Deca/Tren. I run Tren only and libido/erections are great, i've read others running deca only report the same thing. Remember, everyone is different.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate. Been off cycle a year, i know hormones balance themselves out when returning, is it possible for e2 to be still high with a test level 13.1nmol after a year off? Going to go back on February and blast and cruise, all my bloods came back in range, didn't get e2 done though, so is it worth restesting e2 before going back on? I have no symptoms of high e2 just short of patience which i dont get when on cycle which could be either the low test although its in range but lower end of the scale or I'm thinking e2 maybe? My strength is still going up even being natural with that test level so I'm leaning towards e2 but not 100% sure?
> 
> Thanks.


 Depends on your genetics, body fat level, etc. when did you get your 13.1 nmol result? I wouldn't bother with the E2 testing, it will make no difference. (unless it's really high already).


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> It's been 3 weeks I'm doing 25 min cardio 4-5 times a week after my long training session and I have to say that I feel healthier and happier already.
> 
> I hate cardio but when it give you a small euphoria feeling from the endorphine secretion it makes you want to continue.
> 
> Anyway , my question was :
> 
> -What do you think about T3 use in Bodybuilding ?
> 
> 2016-2017 I stayed 16 months on T3 on 25mcg , I also did 2 months on 50mcg and I remember having some sides like lethargy , tremors , more anxiety then normal and really bad sweating during workouts but that's 'normal' sides.
> 
> Since I stopped because I had bad hair loss and I told myself that T3 use ( hyperthyroism ) contribute to hair loss , like steroid use.
> 
> It's been some months I stopped , and yea I still have hair loss from test use but I know it's not T3 at least.
> 
> I'm thinking of using T3 in February / march for 2 months for my cut , I m already cutting right now on test 200mg / w.
> 
> I know T3 helped me lose fat even on 25-30mcg , and I was thinking of using 37.5-50mcg for 2 months on a calorie deficit of 300-500cal + cardio.
> 
> What do you think about this ? is 2 months use may be bad for hair , heart etc or it's not long enough ?
> 
> Cheers


 Same here, once i started feeling the benefits to my cognition, well-being, and energy, i just kept going and made the cardio a habit like brushing teeth.

T3 is overrated, you may have noticed it's sharply fallen out of vogue in the last 20 years. It tends to cause flatness when you go over 25-50 mcg, fat loss is not especially significant at that dose and not super impressive at 100 mcg. It can sharply increase hunger, lead to headaches, diahrrea and greatly reduced strength and endurance.

What you are describing are hyperthyroid symptoms. Hyperthyroid hair loss is temporary. The other fat burners do everything better.

EC: Solid fat burner, strong appetite suppression, strong stimulant to get you through tough workouts and work days when dragging ass on a deficit.

Clen: strong fat burner, can increase calorie burn by about 10% daily. Some side effects like shakes can be common but generally tolerable. Using it is equivalent to adding moderate cardio to your cut, and you can stack it with cardio to get even more calories burned daily.

Yohimbine: Proven to accelerate fat loss, and especially great for stubborn fat or when you reach <12%. It blocks the receptors that slow down fat loss in stubborn fat deposits, also a powerful stimulant to give you energy. People prone to anxiety should be cautious when using it. It can also increase erection strength and libido quite well.

DNP: The king. The strongest fat burner with the fastest results. You can cut maybe x 3 faster than normal on this stuff. It can be harsh and dangerous when abused, i always recommend 250 mg daily with some cardio. No need for +500 mg, as side exponentially increase.

I would pick a better compound from the list above. ^


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Depends on your genetics, body fat level, etc. when did you get your 13.1 nmol result? I wouldn't bother with the E2 testing, it will make no difference. (unless it's really high already).


 My previous cycle ended at the end of November 2017, i waited for the test e ester to clear which was 21 days, then i done a PCT of clomid and nolva for 4 weeks. I didn't run hcg as i didn't really get how to use it hence my previous questions regarding hcg further up tbe thread which you answered and helped me on and i will be running it when i blast and cruise at 1500iu every week thank you for that. I done a test at the beginning of September (2018) so 10 months after cycle and that's when i had the result of 13.1nmol. I didn't have a short fuse before starting aas only when I'm off cycle nowadays. I've had alot of stress aswell last year with family issues which could contribute to it but i just wanted to rule out e2 as a cause because i know it can make you irritated if it's too high and i don't think it's the test levels as im still gaining strength in the gym with that test level results. dhea, fsh, lh, shbg all in range too? Body fat is 17% when last checked just before xmas.

Thanks!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It's still fairly new, availability is not high and PIP can be very high.


 okay, how much experience with AAS should I have before trying DHB? It sounds very interesting.

Btw will it increase RBC more than other drugs ?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> My previous cycle ended at the end of November 2017, i waited for the test e ester to clear which was 21 days, then i done a PCT of clomid and nolva for 4 weeks. I didn't run hcg as i didn't really get how to use it hence my previous questions regarding hcg further up tbe thread which you answered and helped me on and i will be running it when i blast and cruise at 1500iu every week thank you for that. I done a test at the beginning of September (2018) so 10 months after cycle and that's when i had the result of 13.1nmol. I didn't have a short fuse before starting aas only when I'm off cycle nowadays. I've had alot of stress aswell last year with family issues which could contribute to it but i just wanted to rule out e2 as a cause because i know it can make you irritated if it's too high and i don't think it's the test levels as im still gaining strength in the gym with that test level results. dhea, fsh, lh, shbg all in range too? Body fat is 17% when last checked just before xmas.
> 
> Thanks!


 Low testosterone is a more frequent cause of irritability and low stress tolerance. People think "alpha male" is an aggressive, pushy asshole but high testosterone people are naturally calm but assertive.

Roid rage can be real but typically it's either someone coming off with very low test levels, someone on cycle with high E2, or a tren user.

Your testosterone levels are considered low and definitely suboptimal. The lowest you want it is 17.35 nmol/L. You have the testosterone levels of a 70 year old man, think about how cranky and irritable old men can be.

Body fat is too high at 17%, you should never be over 15% for optimal health and aesthetics.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay, how much experience with AAS should I have before trying DHB? It sounds very interesting.
> 
> Btw will it increase RBC more than other drugs ?


 Try it whenever you want. I recommend test only or test+winstrol for first cycles but it doesn't really matter.

Some people say it raises RBC more anecdotally but i don't know.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Same here, once i started feeling the benefits to my cognition, well-being, and energy, i just kept going and made the cardio a habit like brushing teeth.
> 
> T3 is overrated, you may have noticed it's sharply fallen out of vogue in the last 20 years. It tends to cause flatness when you go over 25-50 mcg, fat loss is not especially significant at that dose and not super impressive at 100 mcg. It can sharply increase hunger, lead to headaches, diahrrea and greatly reduced strength and endurance.
> 
> What you are describing are hyperthyroid symptoms. Hyperthyroid hair loss is temporary. The other fat burners do everything better.
> 
> EC: Solid fat burner, strong appetite suppression, strong stimulant to get you through tough workouts and work days when dragging ass on a deficit.
> 
> Clen: strong fat burner, can increase calorie burn by about 10% daily. Some side effects like shakes can be common but generally tolerable. Using it is equivalent to adding moderate cardio to your cut, and you can stack it with cardio to get even more calories burned daily.
> 
> Yohimbine: Proven to accelerate fat loss, and especially great for stubborn fat or when you reach <12%. It blocks the receptors that slow down fat loss in stubborn fat deposits, also a powerful stimulant to give you energy. People prone to anxiety should be cautious when using it. It can also increase erection strength and libido quite well.
> 
> DNP: The king. The strongest fat burner with the fastest results. You can cut maybe x 3 faster than normal on this stuff. It can be harsh and dangerous when abused, i always recommend 250 mg daily with some cardio. No need for +500 mg, as side exponentially increase.
> 
> I would pick a better compound from the list above. ^


 Cheers

Well I've got some anxiety disorders , and stupidly I used ECA for more then a year at 18-24mg as a pre workout.

I used to love it , but I stopped because I became irritable and it kills erections and I can't deal with that nowadays.

ECA was my go to product , you feel confident ( helped with confidence for sure ) , strong and energetic but it's bad on the heart , I remember my cardiologist told me that my heart was beating too fast at rest and I had some LVH too (I guess from exercice , test , ECA) .

I guess I won't use anything , I'll keep doing cardio , less calorie and 200mg test or maybe I'll up to 300mg like you advised earlier .

Thanks


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Low testosterone is a more frequent cause of irritability and low stress tolerance. People think "alpha male" is an aggressive, pushy asshole but high testosterone people are naturally calm but assertive.
> 
> Roid rage can be real but typically it's either someone coming off with very low test levels, someone on cycle with high E2, or a tren user.
> 
> Your testosterone levels are considered low and definitely suboptimal. The lowest you want it is 17.35 nmol/L. You have the testosterone levels of a 70 year old man, think about how cranky and irritable old men can be.
> 
> Body fat is too high at 17%, you should never be over 15% for optimal health and aesthetics.


 Yes i can see what you mean, this is why im going to blast and cruise, been off now over a year and still feel similar to when i had the test checked so i know it hasnt risen much if any (mood wise) everything else is fine, no problems with libido, nothing i know everything is back to normal, Its just mood wise and irritation that's the problem. this is why I've edged to blast and cruise instead of cycling because if its not recovering as well as it should now, further down the line with pcting eventually il end up blasting and cruising anyway. I've looked into the pros and cons of b&c so i know what im up against, aslong i keep everything in check with regular bloods ishould be fine.

I know im still cutting so it will get to below 15% which was my goal. I was in the high 20s so not doing to bad natural considering. I want it 15 or below before jumping back on then go straight into a cut with low dose aas to drop it further possibly 12% my end result by summer timethen cruise through summer before bulking and so on.

Thank you mate, appreciate your time and advice, learning something every day on this thread with other people's questions and your answers aswell, thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Cheers
> 
> Well I've got some anxiety disorders , and stupidly I used ECA for more then a year at 18-24mg as a pre workout.
> 
> I used to love it , but I stopped because I became irritable and it kills erections and I can't deal with that nowadays.
> 
> ECA was my go to product , you feel confident ( helped with confidence for sure ) , strong and energetic but it's bad on the heart , I remember my cardiologist told me that my heart was beating too fast at rest and I had some LVH too (I guess from exercice , test , ECA) .
> 
> I guess I won't use anything , I'll keep doing cardio , less calorie and 200mg test or maybe I'll up to 300mg like you advised earlier .
> 
> Thanks


 T3 isn't good for the heart either. I would do 300 mg test.


----------



## Shamlsn

Test should ideally be included in any steroid stack, but if you are using HCG, at for example 300-400 IU EOD, I wonder if the body's testosterone level would be sufficient to use other anabolic steroids without the need to inject additional testosterone. I wouldn't normally advise, for example, a tren only cycle - but tren plus HCG would work wouldn't it? Or would you need a higher level of test for some reason? Your thoughts please.

Thanks.


----------



## zariph

Is injectable winny faked more than oral? Usually people taking winstrol oral, why is this when injectable is less toxic?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Yes i can see what you mean, this is why im going to blast and cruise, been off now over a year and still feel similar to when i had the test checked so i know it hasnt risen much if any (mood wise) everything else is fine, no problems with libido, nothing i know everything is back to normal, Its just mood wise and irritation that's the problem. this is why I've edged to blast and cruise instead of cycling because if its not recovering as well as it should now, further down the line with pcting eventually il end up blasting and cruising anyway. I've looked into the pros and cons of b&c so i know what im up against, aslong i keep everything in check with regular bloods ishould be fine.
> 
> I know im still cutting so it will get to below 15% which was my goal. I was in the high 20s so not doing to bad natural considering. I want it 15 or below before jumping back on then go straight into a cut with low dose aas to drop it further possibly 12% my end result by summer timethen cruise through summer before bulking and so on.
> 
> Thank you mate, appreciate your time and advice, learning something every day on this thread with other people's questions and your answers aswell, thanks again.


 Anytime brother, you will look and feel much better once you get below 15% and also bring your testosterone levels back up.

Many will notice they actually feel better mood/energy/libido wise on lower than cycle doses of testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Is injectable winny faked more than oral? Usually people taking winstrol oral, why is this when injectable is less toxic?


 People don't like injections and if you take tabs it gives you more room in the syringe for other oils or higher doses of injectables.

I would say it's more likely to be faked but if you have a good source it won't matter.

Injectable winstrol is more bioavailable so you need less than oral to get results but it can PIP if not made correctly just like test prop since it's hard to make it hold in solution. You need a good brewer or recipe to make a high concentration/low pip winstrol injection.


----------



## Sam R

@El Chapo I made a thread regarding the possibility of building muscle in a deficit. Most people on the board disagreed with my approach due to their past experiences/knowledge. Was looking up studies to try and reassure myself it was worth cutting slowly and trying to gain some lean size. Came across this study- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21558571/

not great myself at analysing studies so could you give it a read and let me know if it's feasible, cheers

edit - I understand the results just don't know whether there's any flaws


----------



## Matt6210

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo I made a thread regarding the possibility of building muscle in a deficit. Most people on the board disagreed with my approach due to their past experiences/knowledge. Was looking up studies to try and reassure myself it was worth cutting slowly and trying to gain some lean size. Came across this study- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21558571/
> 
> not great myself at analysing studies so could you give it a read and let me know if it's feasible, cheers


 While your at it bro would you mind coming to his gym and lifting some weights up and down for him?


----------



## Sam R

Matt6210 said:


> While your at it bro would you mind coming to his gym and lifting some weights up and down for him?


 Training is the bit I enjoy mate, I'd rather him cook me meals and pin my gear...


----------



## Matt6210

Sam R said:


> Training is the bit I enjoy mate, I'd rather him cook me meals and pin my gear...


 I'm same love being in the gym, don't care about pinning but the eating I find the hardest and trying to get the cals in.


----------



## Cypionate

Matt6210 said:


> I'm same love being in the gym, don't care about pinning but the eating I find the hardest and trying to get the cals in.


 I just worked out I am eating way too many cals, gonna be hard to back off lol, I tried being careful with them today and am already over my bulking recommended according to the TDEE calc


----------



## Matt6210

Cypionate said:


> I just worked out I am eating way too many cals, gonna be hard to back off lol, I tried being careful with them today and am already over my bulking recommended according to the TDEE calc


 Mate there a load of bollox, you burn a lot more cals threwout the day than you think.


----------



## Cypionate

Matt6210 said:


> Mate there a load of bollox, you burn a lot more cals threwout the day than you think.


 I am putting on a fair bit of fat this bulk but what it recommends seems very low, it thinks I need 2300 for maintenance and 2800 for bulking, or 2600/3100 depending on exercise levels

I am eating closer to 4500 going from today's log with the myfitness pal app


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo I made a thread regarding the possibility of building muscle in a deficit. Most people on the board disagreed with my approach due to their past experiences/knowledge. Was looking up studies to try and reassure myself it was worth cutting slowly and trying to gain some lean size. Came across this study- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21558571/
> 
> not great myself at analysing studies so could you give it a read and let me know if it's feasible, cheers
> 
> edit - I understand the results just don't know whether there's any flaws


 Everything you need is right here:

https://sci-fit.net/bulking-deficit-gaining/


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> I am putting on a fair bit of fat this bulk but what it recommends seems very low, it thinks I need 2300 for maintenance and 2800 for bulking, or 2600/3100 depending on exercise levels
> 
> I am eating closer to 4500 going from today's log with the myfitness pal app


 You need to adjust as you go because the calculators can only estimate so accurately. Most of the time people overestimate their maintenance calories. If you are gaining too fast, then lower calories a bit. 1 lbs a week is too much unless you are a beginner or don't care about staying lean or gaining excess body fat. 0.25-0.5 lbs a week is a good aim.


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> I am putting on a fair bit of fat this bulk but what it recommends seems very low, it thinks I need 2300 for maintenance and 2800 for bulking, or 2600/3100 depending on exercise levels
> 
> I am eating closer to 4500 going from today's log with the myfitness pal app


 That's a s**t load of calories for most people.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> That's a s**t load of calories for most people.


 Yea that's why I started logging because I am gaining too much fat, but when the TDEE calc said 2300 maintenance it didn't sound right, got to be honest I've never really calorie counted, just made sure I ate enough to grow, got my 1-1.5g protein in and left it at that, but today when I tried backing off to around 3k calories it was still like mid-late afternoon when I hit 3k+ and I had not really been trying to eat like I normally do, probably poor food choices too but my breakfast was oats and protein powder + milk and that was almost 1000kcals

I think I've conditioned myself to eat as much as possible over the years and am at a place where I can eat loads now, and everything you hear about these big pro's is EAT EAT EAT and then eat more

I'm 5'8", 211lb, 39 yrs, fairly high BF, I'd guess 20-25% if that helps to know what I should be aiming for


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> Yea that's why I started logging because I am gaining too much fat, but when the TDEE calc said 2300 maintenance it didn't sound right, got to be honest I've never really calorie counted, just made sure I ate enough to grow, got my 1-1.5g protein in and left it at that, but today when I tried backing off to around 3k calories it was still like mid-late afternoon when I hit 3k+ and I had not really been trying to eat like I normally do, probably poor food choices too but my breakfast was oats and protein powder + milk and that was almost 1000kcals
> 
> I think I've conditioned myself to eat as much as possible over the years and am at a place where I can eat loads now, and everything you hear about these big pro's is EAT EAT EAT and then eat more
> 
> I'm 5'8", 211lb, 39 yrs, fairly high BF, I'd guess 20-25% if that helps to know what I should be aiming for


 Are you sedentary? What kind of job or activity do you do most of the week? Any cardio?

It sounds about right at 5'8" with high body fat, remember fat is not very metabolically active.

This is why i a lot guys throw in a little cardio so they can't eat a bit more and still lose fat. If you are completely sedentary, you gotta cut a lot more calories.

Avoid oats, protein powder and milk. These are all liquids/soft calories and are very easy to overeat and don't fill you well. You came to the right place. I highly suggest skipping breakfast, just have a black coffee, that way you can fit more calories into your lunch and dinner. The meals will be tastier and more satisfying. My favorite food in terms of flavor and best macros are sandwiches. Swiss and turkey sandwich is a staple of mine. Very satisfying, lots of protein and some carbs but only 400-500 calories. Avoid protein powder, try to get the protein from whole foods like meats and cheeses. Make sure your milk is skim or 0% fat.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> Are you sedentary? What kind of job or activity do you do most of the week? Any cardio?
> 
> It sounds about right at 5'8" with high body fat, remember fat is not very metabolically active.
> 
> This is why i a lot guys throw in a little cardio so they can't eat a bit more and still lose fat. If you are completely sedentary, you gotta cut a lot more calories.
> 
> Avoid oats, protein powder and milk. These are all liquids/soft calories and are very easy to overeat and don't fill you well. You came to the right place. I highly suggest skipping breakfast, just have a black coffee, that way you can fit more calories into your lunch and dinner. The meals will be tastier and more satisfying. My favorite food in terms of flavor and best macros are sandwiches. Swiss and turkey sandwich is a staple of mine. Very satisfying, lots of protein and some carbs but only 400-500 calories. Avoid protein powder, try to get the protein from whole foods like meats and cheeses. Make sure your milk is skim or 0% fat.


 Yea I mostly am in the house (during winter), summer I am always out and about so it will change a lot then, always lose a lot of weight in summer, I walk to the gym and back which is just over 2 miles total, 5 days a week

Milk is semi-skimmed, I don't really have a choice but to use protein powder to make up a good chunk of it due to cost, only one wage coming in atm, really on a tight budget for training, tried buying the cheap supermarket frozen chicken breast but it's so nasty even the dog won't eat it, seriously

Pasta, rice, potatoes etc for carbs, but for protein I have to make do with powder and whatever she also eats, which is things like sausages and other processed crap, tins of chicken in white sauce for example I had with a pack of microwave rice today and that was 968 cals and barely filled me

So yea, that's my problem, trying to get macros right with bad food lol, I mean I'm growing fine, but belly is growing faster


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> Yea I mostly am in the house (during winter), summer I am always out and about so it will change a lot then, always lose a lot of weight in summer, I walk to the gym and back which is just over 2 miles total, 5 days a week
> 
> Milk is semi-skimmed, I don't really have a choice but to use protein powder to make up a good chunk of it due to cost, only one wage coming in atm, really on a tight budget for training, tried buying the cheap supermarket frozen chicken breast but it's so nasty even the dog won't eat it, seriously
> 
> Pasta, rice, potatoes etc for carbs, but for protein I have to make do with powder and whatever she also eats, which is things like sausages and other processed crap, tins of chicken in white sauce for example I had with a pack of microwave rice today and that was 968 cals and barely filled me
> 
> So yea, that's my problem, trying to get macros right with bad food lol, I mean I'm growing fine, but belly is growing faster


 I would use the sedentary multiplier in the TDEE calculator then. The walk doesn't burn much calories. It's best to underestimate your TDEE than to overestimate it.

Make sure the milk is skim/ 0% fat. This makes a huge difference.

There's no such thing as bad food, if it's the macros you need it will do the job. You need to get used to controlling your appetite. Starting intermittent fasting, i can't recommend it enough. Skip your breakfast and drink black coffee in the morning.


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> Everything you need is right here:
> 
> https://sci-fit.net/bulking-deficit-gaining/


 Interesting article with a load of studies to back up every claim, no reference to the use of PEDs so I'm assuming all of these guys/girls are natural athletes. The use of PEDs would accentuate the positive results of each of these studies making them even more feasible.

Do you think PEDs would have been mentioned if they were used or do you reckon all of these trainees are actually natural?


----------



## Rob27

Cypionate said:


> Milk is semi-skimmed, I don't really have a choice but to use protein powder to make up a good chunk of it due to cost, *only one wage coming in atm, really on a tight budget for training, tried buying the cheap supermarket frozen chicken breast but it's so nasty even the dog won't eat it, seriously*
> 
> Pasta, rice, potatoes etc for carbs, but for protein I have to make do with powder and whatever she also eats, which is things like sausages and other processed crap, tins of chicken in white sauce for example I had with a pack of microwave rice today and that was 968 cals and barely filled me
> 
> So yea, that's my problem, trying to get macros right with bad food lol, I mean I'm growing fine, but belly is growing faster


 sorry to jump in on your questions for elchapo. Im in a similar position as you with only the mrs working at the minute, i work in construction and got layed off few weeks before Christmas. Try and find a local decent butcher you'll get 100% better meats and half the price of the supermarket crap. I spend £30 a week on meats in butcher gets me around 24 chicken breast each with 60g protein and 300+ cals, i also get rump, sirloin steaks and most of the time get some freebies too. I get my oats, veg, fruit and carb sources from supermarket all for £20 so my diet either bulking or cutting totals £50 a week which is fairly cheap. I also use protein powder but buy that monthly. Depending on your situation hope this helps.


----------



## Cypionate

Lloyd H said:


> sorry to jump in on your questions for elchapo. Im in a similar position as you with only the mrs working at the minute, i work in construction and got layed off few weeks before Christmas. Try and find a local decent butcher you'll get 100% better meats and half the price of the supermarket crap. I spend £30 a week on meats in butcher gets me around 24 chicken breast each with 60g protein and 300+ cals, i also get rump, sirloin steaks and most of the time get some freebies too. I get my oats, veg, fruit and carb sources from supermarket all for £20 so my diet either bulking or cutting totals £50 a week which is fairly cheap. I also use protein powder but buy that monthly. Depending on your situation hope this helps.


 Cheers mate, I was getting chicken from the local butchers but every couple weeks he was putting the price up, think it was about £57 for 10kg last I checked, couldn't afford to keep buying it so switched to protein powder (Previously was only drinking shakes after training), might have another look about and see if there is anywhere a bit cheaper, but £39 for 5kg powder lasts me a month, where I'd be eating more than that in chicken per week

Just a rut we're in atm until I am working again, but yea pretty tight atm


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Interesting article with a load of studies to back up every claim, no reference to the use of PEDs so I'm assuming all of these guys/girls are natural athletes. The use of PEDs would accentuate the positive results of each of these studies making them even more feasible.
> 
> Do you think PEDs would have been mentioned if they were used or do you reckon all of these trainees are actually natural?


 I'm sure they were going for natural


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think about oats in the morning ? I've been taking some daily since years for breakfast , but I'm sure it's a reason why I have stomach bloat sometimes.

I'd like to stop it for 3 months during my cut since it's the easier thing to stop , so I'll have 30g protein shaker + 1 banana for the morning , do you think it's enough for a breakfast? ( on a cut ).

I know oats have a lot of benefits , for cholesterol levels too , so would you stop it or continue to take it ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about oats in the morning ? I've been taking some daily since years for breakfast , but I'm sure it's a reason why I have stomach bloat sometimes.
> 
> I'd like to stop it for 3 months during my cut since it's the easier thing to stop , so I'll have 30g protein shaker + 1 banana for the morning , do you think it's enough for a breakfast? ( on a cut ).
> 
> I know oats have a lot of benefits , for cholesterol levels too , so would you stop it or continue to take it ?


 i recommend skipping breakfast on a cut.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> i recommend skipping breakfast on a cut.


 I see , so going to the gym with empty stomach ? I go to the gym at 11-12am


----------



## MrSilver

ElChapo said:


> i recommend skipping breakfast on a cut.


 Really? Can't see that being helpful?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I see , so going to the gym with empty stomach ? I go to the gym at 11-12am


 Take BCAA to train fasted. It's up to you, but if you want to have breakfast, make it something with solid protein like a sandwich.


----------



## ElChapo

MrSilver said:


> Really? Can't see that being helpful?


 Skipping breakfast lets you eat more calories for lunch and dinner, it also trains you to control your appetite and decreases leptin sensitivity. It's one of the best strategies for getting and staying lean. There's a reason most people can't stay under 10% body fat comfortably year round, they don't know what they are doing.


----------



## Matt6210

ElChapo said:


> Skipping breakfast lets you eat more calories for lunch and dinner, it also trains you to control your appetite and decreases leptin sensitivity. It's one of the best strategies for getting and staying lean. There's a reason most people can't stay under 10% body fat comfortably year round, they don't know what they are doing.


 How much do you weigh mate?


----------



## jwbs

MrSilver said:


> Really? Can't see that being helpful?


 It's what I do. By far the easiest way to cut 10%-25% of your daily calories without even having to think about it. I lift in the mornings too.


----------



## pma111

Sorry its maybe a bit of a novice query but what exactly is oxidation,what is its relationship to inflammation, causes, what risks does it cause in the body and most important what can be done to lower it/neutralise its health impact (anti oxidants?).


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Sorry its maybe a bit of a novice query but what exactly is oxidation,what is its relationship to inflammation, causes, what risks does it cause in the body and most important what can be done to lower it/neutralise its health impact (anti oxidants?).


 All you need to know:

https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/oxidative-stress-101/


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> How much do you weigh mate?


 135 lbs


----------



## Matt6210

ElChapo said:


> 135 lbs


 And you got to that weight being 10% bf year round?


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> 135 lbs


 Is that a typo?


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Is that a typo?


 It's a joke, i don't share personal information.


----------



## Tricky

@El Chapo

begingin a dnp cut tomorrow. I'm currently about 30% bf. 100kg at 6ft plan to get to around 85kg. How much protein as a min do I need.

I will be on 250mg test, 50mg prov and 250mg dnp until I hit my target.

Thanks


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo is it ok to drink on 5-10mg cialis?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> begingin a dnp cut tomorrow. I'm currently about 30% bf. 100kg at 6ft plan to get to around 85kg. How much protein as a min do I need.
> 
> I will be on 250mg test, 50mg prov and 250mg dnp until I hit my target.
> 
> Thanks


 1 gram per pound of lean body mass. So calculate your 30% of your total weight that is fat, subtract that from your total weight, what's left is your lean body mass.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> ElChapo is it ok to drink on 5-10mg cialis?


 Yeah, cialis does not tax the liver in anyway. There's no alcohol interaction.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> 1 gram per pound of lean body mass. So calculate your 30% of your total weight that is fat, subtract that from your total weight, what's left is your lean body mass.


 Thanks. Should easily manage 155g protein in whole food while cutting


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, cialis does not tax the liver in anyway. There's no alcohol interaction.


 I was referring more towards othostatic hypertension rather than the liver. I'd like to take a low dose, head out and party a weekend and not have to be concerned, that if I get too drunk my sh*ts a touch limp. only occurs when I consume good deal a spirits.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

If I take a protein shake only for breakfast is it good? or you would eat nothing ,just drink water?

And , what about pre workout ?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I was referring more towards othostatic hypertension rather than the liver. I'd like to take a low dose, head out and party a weekend and not have to be concerned, that if I get too drunk my sh*ts a touch limp. only occurs when I consume good deal a spirits.


 You'll be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> If I take a protein shake only for breakfast is it good? or you would eat nothing ,just drink water?
> 
> And , what about pre workout ?


 I would skip breakfast and drink black coffee instead, but if you want breakfast, i suggest a solid meal with protein like a sandwich with turkey and swiss cheese.

You should avoid drinking your calories during a cut, that includes protein shakes. Solid/whole food will satiate and keep you fuller for a longer period. Protein shakes have no advantage over solid food protein other than being easier to consume but it's this same advantage that is a disadvantage on a cut.


----------



## Tricky

@El Chapo

min amount of GH to make it worth while and notice real world benefits in terms of fat loss, sleep and skin benifits?


----------



## pma111

What kind of impact on blood pressure / circulation would low e2 have? I read elsewhere low e2 can negatively impact your endothelial function in a bad way.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> min amount of GH to make it worth while and notice real world benefits in terms of fat loss, sleep and skin benifits?


 1-2 IU for anti-aging/ replacement

2-5 IU for enhanced recovery/wound healing

+5 IU+Insulin for enhanced anabolism/muscle mass

What you are looking for would be in the 2-3 range. If you go very high, you can get water retention, high blood sugar, carpal tunnel and other side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What kind of impact on blood pressure / circulation would low e2 have? I read elsewhere low e2 can negatively impact your endothelial function in a bad way.


 Low E2 can predispose you to heart disease, It won't directly affect BP or circulation in the short term, but can lead to increase vascular calcification in the long-term. Chronically low E2 is bad, short term it just sucks.


----------



## zariph

Can you rank these orals in terms of negative effects on lipids/liver/RBC

Winstrol

Anavar

Dbol

Anadrol

Basically which one would be most toxic etc. I know its probably depending on the person, but trying to learn as much as possible from you! Its all very appreciated mate


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can you rank these orals in terms of negative effects on lipids/liver/RBC
> 
> Winstrol
> 
> Anavar
> 
> Dbol
> 
> Anadrol
> 
> Basically which one would be most toxic etc. I know its probably depending on the person, but trying to learn as much as possible from you! Its all very appreciated mate


 Winstrol, anadrol, dbol, anavar.

Toxicity is not a concern in the short term, if you aren't running these year round, don't let it concern you. Just limit oral cycles to 12 weeks at a time and run 250 mg daily UDCA or TUDCA.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol, anadrol, dbol, anavar.
> 
> Toxicity is not a concern in the short term, if you aren't running these year round, don't let it concern you. Just limit oral cycles to 12 weeks at a time and run 250 mg daily UDCA or TUDCA.


 Thank you, so winny hits the lipids the most and anavar the least, and when will it get back to normal after stopping?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, so winny hits the lipids the most and anavar the least, and when will it get back to normal after stopping?


 *Usually 8 weeks at least.*


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> *Usually 8 weeks at least.*


 Okay that seems reasonable. Will injectables have the same impact as orals?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay that seems reasonable. Will injectables have the same impact as orals?


 Do you mean injectable steroids or injectable orals?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> 1-2 IU for anti-aging/ replacement
> 
> 2-5 IU for enhanced recovery/wound healing
> 
> +5 IU+Insulin for enhanced anabolism/muscle mass
> 
> What you are looking for would be in the 2-3 range. If you go very high, you can get water retention, high blood sugar, carpal tunnel and other side effects.


 at 25yo would it be worth to use 2-3 IU of GH ? for anti aging ( AAS make aging faster I think ) and better sleep/fat loss and other benefits.

What about gyno on GH? I remember people complaining about gyno growth on GH


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo does tachycardia have a role in causing LVH, I know that hypertension is the main cause of LVH and my blood pressure is always in range. However my resting heart rate has always been elevated (anxiety & genetics) and wondered what the negative implications of this will be. Am working to lower it by doing cardio three days per week and after next cut, maintaining low body fat (under 12% year round) as my heart rate is always slightly lower post cut.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Do you mean injectable steroids or injectable orals?


 oh sorry I mean injectable steroids, test deca etc


----------



## Pancake'

Hypothetically, how would you run

Dbol, adrol, winstrol, var, sdrol oral only cycles? (I know) flack they get, I just come across friends that don't want to pin for a first cycle.

Do you believe if diet & training is reasonable-good, a individual can gain a good amount of muscle on oral only cycles?


----------



## cm59

Hi

What would you disclose on a pre op/hospital form?

i have been referred to see a snoring specialist and they sent me a form with lots of questions about my history and also what vitamins supplements, medications I am taking

i have left everything blank at the moment is this for the best?

As an example if someone was cruising l, taking aromasin,Cialis and hcg

Is any of this likely to cause issues if Someone was to have an op?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> oh sorry I mean injectable steroids, test deca etc


 Tren and winstrol are the worst i've seen regardless of injectable or oral.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> at 25yo would it be worth to use 2-3 IU of GH ? for anti aging ( AAS make aging faster I think ) and better sleep/fat loss and other benefits.
> 
> What about gyno on GH? I remember people complaining about gyno growth on GH


 No, the soonest i would start is age 35-40 unless you already have a GH deficiency at a younger age.

25 years old is when your levels start to decline, but it only starts to matter once you're past 35.

Gyno should not be a problem for 90% of GH users. If you get gyno, just run ralox/nolva and reverse it.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo does tachycardia have a role in causing LVH, I know that hypertension is the main cause of LVH and my blood pressure is always in range. However my resting heart rate has always been elevated (anxiety & genetics) and wondered what the negative implications of this will be. Am working to lower it by doing cardio three days per week and after next cut, maintaining low body fat (under 12% year round) as my heart rate is always slightly lower post cut.


 What's your average resting heart rate? Heart rate is linked to longevity and heart health. Tachycardia means your heart is working overtime, decreasing lifespan and health.

Do you do any cardio? How often do you lift in the gym? Stimulant use?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Hypothetically, how would you run
> 
> Dbol, adrol, winstrol, var, sdrol oral only cycles? (I know) flack they get, I just come across friends that don't want to pin for a first cycle.
> 
> Do you believe if diet & training is reasonable-good, a individual can gain a good amount of muscle on oral only cycles?


 You can get plenty of muscle and good results without testosterone. It might not be optimal but if your friend does a 500 calorie surplus and focuses on increase reps and strength in all his lifts, he will gain plenty of muscle on an oral only cycle. Whether or not he gets erectile dysfunction or mood issues will be down to his genetics. He might feel fantastic or like s**t.

I would run 100 mg winstrol daily only, 100 mg anavar daily only, 40 mg superdrol daily only, 100 mg adrol or 50 mg dbol daily only (lots of E2 and water retention at 100 for dbol).


----------



## ElChapo

cm59 said:


> Hi
> 
> What would you disclose on a pre op/hospital form?
> 
> i have been referred to see a snoring specialist and they sent me a form with lots of questions about my history and also what vitamins supplements, medications I am taking
> 
> i have left everything blank at the moment is this for the best?
> 
> at the moment I am cruising on 250mg test e every 10 days and taking aromasin on pin days. 10mg Cialis x2 a week and 1500 hcg per week
> 
> Is any of this likely to cause issues if I have an op?


 How long have you been cruising on that much test? do you know your E2 levels? What is your height/weight/body fat percentage?

I find that myself and others have snoring/apnea issues when running higher doses of AAS, and also when heavier/higher body fat %.

How long have you had the snoring issue for?

I wouldn't say anything on the form in regards to AAS/PED useage, but i'm American, AAS culture, law and opinion is much different here than in the UK.


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> What's your average resting heart rate? Heart rate is linked to longevity and heart health. Tachycardia means your heart is working overtime, decreasing lifespan and health.
> 
> Do you do any cardio? How often do you lift in the gym? Stimulant use?


 Average resting heart rate on cycle 80-85bpm. When cruising after my cut was down to 70/75. Started cardio three mornings a week as of two weeks ago. Been very inconsistent with it in the past however now is a priority in hope that it'll lower it. Lift 4-5 days a week. Don't touch stimulants I'm never in a rush to cut weight so not necessary, however do blast anabolics.


----------



## cm59

ElChapo said:


> How long have you been cruising on that much test? do you know your E2 levels? What is your height/weight/body fat percentage?
> 
> I find that myself and others have snoring/apnea issues when running higher doses of AAS, and also when heavier/higher body fat %.
> 
> How long have you had the snoring issue for?
> 
> I wouldn't say anything on the form in regards to AAS/PED useage, but i'm American, AAS culture, law and opinion is much different here than in the UK.


 3 weeks going to do full bloods at 6 weeks

5"11 94kg 15-17%

i have always snored but has got worse lately, I believe my snoring is more sinus/nasal related as I snore with my mouth shut the doc gave me a steroidal nasal spray and referred me


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Average resting heart rate on cycle 80-85bpm. When cruising after my cut was down to 70/75. Started cardio three mornings a week as of two weeks ago. Been very inconsistent with it in the past however now is a priority in hope that it'll lower it. Lift 4-5 days a week. Don't touch stimulants I'm never in a rush to cut weight so not necessary, however do blast anabolics.


 80s is nothing to worry about. I would only be concern if it's in the 90s, OFF CYCLE for many years.

Just up continue your cardio and get leaner to get back into the 70s.


----------



## ElChapo

cm59 said:


> 3 weeks going to do full bloods at 6 weeks
> 
> 5"11 94kg 15-17%
> 
> i have always snored but has got worse lately, I believe my snoring is more sinus/nasal related as I snore with my mouth shut the doc gave me a steroidal nasal spray and referred me


 Do you do any cardio?

I bet if you up your cardiovascular exercise and cut down to <12% you won't have any snoring issues. Mine COMPLETELY goes away when i'm leaner and exercise. I see it all the time.

They won't really be able to help you anyways at the specialist. They will just throw meds at it and hope for the best.


----------



## cm59

ElChapo said:


> Do you do any cardio?
> 
> I bet if you up your cardiovascular exercise and cut down to <12% you won't have any snoring issues. Mine COMPLETELY goes away when i'm leaner and exercise. I see it all the time.
> 
> They won't really be able to help you anyways at the specialist. They will just throw meds at it and hope for the best.


 I have started to do a lot more cardio to get my body fat down now I am off cycle where I was bulking so hopefully it will improve

i was under the impression. That there were lots of new procedures for snoring maybe not.

thanks for the advice I'll keep smashing the cardio

at the moment I'm trying to do 15 mins after most weights session then an hour cardio session once a week does this sound ok?


----------



## Rockstar618111

@ElChapo are you familiar with Dr Neal Rouzier, his name came up recently on a TRT podcast with Jay Campbell. There seems to a shift away from AIs in TRT and they are quoting about allowing estrogen to be between 70-90 and not 20-30 for maximum cardiovascular protection. Do you have any thoughts on this?


----------



## ElChapo

cm59 said:


> I have started to do a lot more cardio to get my body fat down now I am off cycle where I was bulking so hopefully it will improve
> 
> i was under the impression. That there were lots of new procedures for snoring maybe not.
> 
> thanks for the advice I'll keep smashing the cardio
> 
> at the moment I'm trying to do 15 mins after most weights session then an hour cardio session once a week does this sound ok?


 Why go through a procedure when you can fix the problem naturally with no draw backs?

Remember, fat loss is 90% caloric deficit. No amount of cardio will lead to fat loss if you eat more than you burn daily.

Do my recommended routine:

24 minute jog at 5 MPH on treadmill, 6 minute cooldown walk. 3-6 times per week. Eventually it will get very easy and you will find it relaxing.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> How long have you been cruising on that much test? do you know your E2 levels? What is your height/weight/body fat percentage?
> 
> I find that myself and others have snoring/apnea issues when running higher doses of AAS, and also when heavier/higher body fat %.
> 
> How long have you had the snoring issue for?
> 
> I wouldn't say anything on the form in regards to AAS/PED useage, but i'm American, AAS culture, law and opinion is much different here than in the UK.


 sorry to quote your reply to previous post but I am getting tested for sleep apnea got to wait for referal to go through so no idea how long it'll take.

I'm 82kg 5ft 11 at 82kg around 11-12% body fat and have had snoring issues for last few years on and off

but now seems to be getting worse and I am stopping breathing for few seconds at a time which I believe is causing me to then feel tired/exhausted during the day.. as I wake up sometimes 3 or 4 times during the night maybe more on occasion.

Doctor measured my neck size and he said body fat % or weight is nothing to do with it? I thought being overweight or high body fat would cause it to be worse or not

also when starting a blast including tren how long should I start with test only before getting bloods so I can dose my AI correctly?

As tren messed my bloods results before and crashed E2 as it said results were higher than they actually were

was going to run test for 3 or 4 weeks then get bloods while using 0.25 or 0.5mg adex Monday and Thurs on 625mg test per week. cycle will be 625 test e 250 tren e and 250 mast e

Do I start adex from first jab or wait a week or 2 before using? Worried about crashing E2 but also don't want it to skyrocket.

though I suppose it's easier to knock e2 down than wait for E2 to rise again when starting blast.

Not starting till mid February though


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> You can get plenty of muscle and good results without testosterone. It might not be optimal but if your friend does a 500 calorie surplus and focuses on increase reps and strength in all his lifts, he will gain plenty of muscle on an oral only cycle. Whether or not he gets erectile dysfunction or mood issues will be down to his genetics. He might feel fantastic or like s**t.
> 
> I would run 100 mg winstrol daily only, 100 mg anavar daily only, 40 mg superdrol daily only, 100 mg adrol or 50 mg dbol daily only (lots of E2 and water retention at 100 for dbol).


 From what I've heard or read, everyone seems to believe running test alongside solidifies gains made. They have a bad stigma surrounding them and most are dead against the idea.

In regards to using the more wet and aromatising compounds. Dbol/adrol, running a solo cycle of each, apart from TUDCA, what on cycle support would you supplement? e.g would you run nolva throughout a dbol only cycle for instance?

Also, what causes gyno from anadrol? I recall people suddenly popping up with gyno after it's run its course.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar618111 said:


> @ElChapo are you familiar with Dr Neal Rouzier, his name came up recently on a TRT podcast with Jay Campbell. There seems to a shift away from AIs in TRT and they are quoting about allowing estrogen to be between 70-90 and not 20-30 for maximum cardiovascular protection. Do you have any thoughts on this?


 There's always going to be a new fad for HRT. Back in the day the fad WAS AI, not it's everyone dropping their AI. This happens with carbs/fat in the fitness world all the time.

I think it's alright to have E2 maybe as high as 80 pg/mL but only if the patient is symptom free and healthy. People overdo the AI more often than not so i'm glad this is getting attention.

20-30 pg/mL is too tight of a range to encompass all people. A lot of men feel their best in the 40s and others feel best when it's in the 20s. Everyone is different.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Do you do any cardio?
> 
> I bet if you up your cardiovascular exercise and cut down to <12% you won't have any snoring issues. Mine COMPLETELY goes away when i'm leaner and exercise. I see it all the time.
> 
> They won't really be able to help you anyways at the specialist. They will just throw meds at it and hope for the best.


 Coulent it be from too high Hematocrit too ?


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> sorry to quote your reply to previous post but I am getting tested for sleep apnea got to wait for referal to go through so no idea how long it'll take.
> 
> I'm 82kg 5ft 11 at 82kg around 11-12% body fat and have had snoring issues for last few years on and off
> 
> but now seems to be getting worse and I am stopping breathing for few seconds at a time which I believe is causing me to then feel tired/exhausted during the day.. as I wake up sometimes 3 or 4 times during the night maybe more on occasion.
> 
> Doctor measured my neck size and he said body fat % or weight is nothing to do with it? I thought being overweight or high body fat would cause it to be worse or not
> 
> also when starting a blast including tren how long should I start with test only before getting bloods so I can dose my AI correctly?
> 
> As tren messed my bloods results before and crashed E2 as it said results were higher than they actually were
> 
> was going to run test for 3 or 4 weeks then get bloods while using 0.25 or 0.5mg adex Monday and Thurs on 625mg test per week. cycle will be 625 test e 250 tren e and 250 mast e
> 
> Do I start adex from first jab or wait a week or 2 before using? Worried about crashing E2 but also don't want it to skyrocket.
> 
> though I suppose it's easier to knock e2 down than wait for E2 to rise again when starting blast.
> 
> Not starting till mid February though


 It does, you can believe it or not but doctor's don't know s**t about a lot of things unfortunately.

Obesity is one of the biggest risk factors for breathing issues, sleep apnea and snoring.

4 weeks should have your E2 levels stable after starting long ester Test, 2 weeks for prop.

You start Adex from the first jab, Testosterone levels are extremely high after the first injection already.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Coulent it be from too high Hematocrit too ?


 Yes, i get shortness of breath when my HCT is high and facial flushing.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> From what I've heard or read, everyone seems to believe running test alongside solidifies gains made. They have a bad stigma surrounding them and most are dead against the idea.
> 
> In regards to using the more wet and aromatising compounds. Dbol/adrol, running a solo cycle of each, apart from TUDCA, what on cycle support would you supplement? e.g would you run nolva throughout a dbol only cycle for instance?
> 
> Also, what causes gyno from anadrol? I recall people suddenly popping up with gyno after it's run its course.
> 
> Thanks


 That's broscience, there's nothing about testosterone that would solidify anything. You either build or grow myonuclei (muscle cells) or you don't. They don't dissapear when you come off, but they can shrink. This is where muscle memory comes from.

I don't like the idea of running nolva on cycle because it can affect IGF-1 levels, i'm always confident raloxifene will reverse any tissue growth so i don't worry about a little puffiness on cycle. A lot of people run nolva in their cycles with good results though, that's just my thought on it.

It's a mystery, it could be the anadrol is cut with dbol or IS dbol(this is likely the explanation). It's not supposed to aromatize or have any E2/progestin effect although there's some anecdote/broscience that it does, but no proof.


----------



## pma111

How do higher dose vitamin c and vitamin e compare as anti oxidants compared to curcumin and pine bark? Not as effective/potent?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Yes, i get shortness of breath when my HCT is high and facial flushing.


 The sad thing is a lot of AAS users have no idea about their hematocrit levels , and are slowly ruining their health


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

People talking about Full receptors or fried receptors when you stay too long on AAS , is that the truth or a myth?

I've been on 200-250mg test for a long time now, and I still can make slow gains .

Naturally I was almost at my best (7 years natural training), the low dose test made me recover faster and decrease my high cortisol levels so everything was easier ( muscle mass / fat loss). , but the receptor thing I never felt it , so is it bioscience once again? to me it is


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> How do higher dose vitamin c and vitamin e compare as anti oxidants compared to curcumin and pine bark? Not as effective/potent?


 Curcumin/Pine bark is better and works through different mechanisms. They do a lot more.

Too much c and e are not good either and they have 0 effect on inflammation.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> The sad thing is a lot of AAS users have no idea about their hematocrit levels , and are slowly ruining their health


 Yeah, it's very common and even happens at TRT doses.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> People talking about Full receptors or fried receptors when you stay too long on AAS , is that the truth or a myth?
> 
> I've been on 200-250mg test for a long time now, and I still can make slow gains .
> 
> Naturally I was almost at my best (7 years natural training), the low dose test made me recover faster and decrease my high cortisol levels so everything was easier ( muscle mass / fat loss). , but the receptor thing I never felt it , so is it bioscience once again? to me it is


 It's bullshit. If you are talking about caffeine and adenosine receptors, a tolerance develops overtime. Androgen receptors and AAS are completely different and work through a mechanism that is not the same. Pure broscience.


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> It's bullshit. If you are talking about caffeine and adenosine receptors, a tolerance develops overtime. Androgen receptors and AAS are completely different and work through a mechanism that is not the same. Pure broscience.


 ElChapo

With the above in mind say I planned to stay on some form of blast either year round or a cruise period but it being a highly dosed cruise not minimal test cruise.

What would you suggest is the best AAS to do this 'super cruise' on that will allow organ health, lipids etc to return to normal.

In other words I want to cruise and still be gaining in between using harsher compounds like tren, Orals etc.

I don't really fancy a typical cruise on 250mg of test e or prop and be wasting 6 months of the year


----------



## Baka

GTT said:


> ElChapo
> 
> With the above in mind say I planned to stay on some form of blast either year round or a cruise period but it being a highly dosed cruise not minimal test cruise.
> 
> What would you suggest is the best AAS to do this 'super cruise' on that will allow organ health, lipids etc to return to normal.
> 
> In other words I want to cruise and still be gaining in between using harsher compounds like tren, Orals etc.
> 
> I don't really fancy a typical cruise on 250mg of test e or prop and be wasting 6 months of the year


 I'm sure he'll tell you that your body needs some rest, not for receptors thing but for your health.(lipids , RBC hematocrit , kidney , liver , mental health etc).

Even 250mg is too much to get back to normal.

My opinion.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I aint eating nowhere near 1.5g/lbs , I m more like 0.8-1g.

I used to eat much more protein , but it seems like it was too much .

Is 0.8-1g/lbs enough ? or I need more to build muscle


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> ElChapo
> 
> With the above in mind say I planned to stay on some form of blast either year round or a cruise period but it being a highly dosed cruise not minimal test cruise.
> 
> What would you suggest is the best AAS to do this 'super cruise' on that will allow organ health, lipids etc to return to normal.
> 
> In other words I want to cruise and still be gaining in between using harsher compounds like tren, Orals etc.
> 
> I don't really fancy a typical cruise on 250mg of test e or prop and be wasting 6 months of the year


 Testosterone, 300-500 mg is fairly safe but keep BP under 140/90 mmhg, hematocrit under 52%, E2 under 100 pg/mL (not pmol/L). Do cardio at least x 3 per week. For heart health, you can run 10 mg cialis per week and Vitamin K2 (MK7 form with a fatty meal).


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I'm sure he'll tell you that your body needs some rest, not for receptors thing but for your health.(lipids , RBC hematocrit , kidney , liver , mental health etc).
> 
> Even 250mg is too much to get back to normal.
> 
> My opinion.


 All elites/pros & instagram stars are taking year round, it's the price to pay for best results. Honestly, someone crusing/blasting year round is still better off than 90% of the sedentary public. If you take basic precautions with your BP, HCT, etc and regularly do cardio, you will be okay. 300-500 mg testosterone year round is fairly safe if you take care of yourself but also take into consideration heart disease/stroke genetics. Some are more susceptible than others. It's not optimal for health, but it's optimal for strength performance and bodybuilding aesthetics. Each person has their own risk tolerance, goals & aspirations.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I aint eating nowhere near 1.5g/lbs , I m more like 0.8-1g.
> 
> I used to eat much more protein , but it seems like it was too much .
> 
> Is 0.8-1g/lbs enough ? or I need more to build muscle


 *0.8 gram per lbs of LEAN BODY MASS for bulking*

*1 gram per lbs of LEAN BODY MASS for cutting.*

*Not 1 gram per lbs of total weight but lean body mass.*

*You can eat under this but you need to supplement BCAA for best results if you don't get enough protein. People think more is better but it's not true, there's only so much amino acid your body can utilize, the rest is forced through your kidneys and pissed out or stored as fat in a surplus. You need protein+carbs to optimally build muscle.*


----------



## maccertimur

One of the questions that really interests me is if a recovery after a workout is different on blast and cruise. For example, on a cruise dose of 300mg Vs blast dose of 750mg ,would the post recovery let's say next day after workout be noticeably faster on a blast vs cruise? And if so is there a certain dosage where this effect would not be that noticeable ,for example anything over 1g of Test.

Not blasting & cruising myself and certainly post recovery next day after workout is very different when on cycle compared to off cycle.

Therefore,interested what it's like when you blast and cruise.

Thanks


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> All elites/pros & instagram stars are taking year round, it's the price to pay for best results. Honestly, someone crusing/blasting year round is still better off than 90% of the sedentary public. If you take basic precautions with your BP, HCT, etc and regularly do cardio, you will be okay. 300-500 mg testosterone year round is fairly safe if you take care of yourself but also take into consideration heart disease/stroke genetics. Some are more susceptible than others. It's not optimal for health, but it's optimal for strength performance and bodybuilding aesthetics. Each person has their own risk tolerance, goals & aspirations.


 ElChapo excuse my ignorance on this matter, 10+ years ago when I stopped training haemocrit, blood cell count was never a thing it is now.

So what are the haemocrit levels of sherpers in Nepal at high altitude and are they suffering any ill effects because surely there rbc haemocrit levels are sky high?


----------



## ElChapo

maccertimur said:


> One of the questions that really interests me is if a recovery after a workout is different on blast and cruise. For example, on a cruise dose of 300mg Vs blast dose of 750mg ,would the post recovery let's say next day after workout be noticeably faster on a blast vs cruise? And if so is there a certain dosage where this effect would not be that noticeable ,for example anything over 1g of Test.
> 
> Not blasting & cruising myself and certainly post recovery next day after workout is very different when on cycle compared to off cycle.
> 
> Therefore,interested what it's like when you blast and cruise.
> 
> Thanks


 Anecdotally, i felt better and faster recovery at a gram of test vs 200-300 mg. I'm sure there are diminishing returns and they might start after 1 gram.


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> ElChapo excuse my ignorance on this matter, 10+ years ago when I stopped training haemocrit, blood cell count was never a thing it is now.
> 
> So what are the haemocrit levels of sherpers in Nepal at high altitude and are they suffering any ill effects because surely there rbc haemocrit levels are sky high?


 HCT increase from living/training in high altitude is different from the pathological type you get from taking AAS.

High hematocrit makes the heart work much harder because the blood is thicker. The blood is also much more likely to clot and cause stroke/embolism/heart attack. You can look up studies on this.

I can actually feel when my hematocrit gets very high. I get shortness of breath, headaches, and my fiancee notices my face flushing all the time.

10 years ago, HCG and raloxifene were virtually unknown. They are now staples of a good AAS/PED program. We are constantly learning new things, improving old ones, and removing obsolete ones. Fads also come and ago all the time, but some things we are better off for learning.

To answer the question, high altitude dwellers will have HCT in the 48-52% range, still within physiological limits.


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> HCT increase from living/training in high altitude is different from the pathological type you get from taking AAS.
> 
> High hematocrit makes the heart work much harder because the blood is thicker. The blood is also much more likely to clot and cause stroke/embolism/heart attack. You can look up studies on this.
> 
> I can actually feel when my hematocrit gets very high. I get shortness of breath, headaches, and my fiancee notices my face flushing all the time.


 So that's the classic puffy red face of a very high test user

So I between me having blood tests to confirm hemocrit levels, if I do cardio 3x a week, as long as I don't get that flush red face I'm. Likely to be in a decent range, otherwise book to give blood?


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> So that's the classic puffy red face of a very high test user
> 
> So I between me having blood tests to confirm hemocrit levels, if I do cardio 3x a week, as long as I don't get that flush red face I'm. Likely to be in a decent range, otherwise book to give blood?


 I believe it contributes to the puffy red face, which might be a combo of high E2, HCT, and BP.

Some people won't get flushed face or even notice it. Honestly, blood work once or twice a year is more than enough. Once you know how your body reacts, you will know whether to keep an eye on it or not. I'm sensitive to HCT increase, others aren't. If you donate blood, you can drop it by 2-3 points instantly. It's easy to manage.

The cardio makes your heart stronger and your blood vessels flexible and soft, which makes your whole body a lot more resistant to strokes, blood clots and heart attacks.

A weak heart with stiff arteries is very susceptible to stroke, blood clot, heart attack.


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think killed Mike Matarazzo?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think killed Mike Matarazzo?


 "Matarazzo's last appearance in a professional bodybuilding event was the 2001 Mr. Olympia, where he placed 21st.[2] He was forced to retire due to having open heart surgery on December 8, 2004 for clogged arteries. At the time of his death he was residing in Modesto, California, and[3] had been forced to stop working as a bail bondsman due to his 20% heart function.[4] On November 8, 2007, Matarazzo suffered a heart attack, his second cardiac-related problem since his surgery in December 2004.[5] On August 3rd, 2014, Matarazzo was in the intensive care unit of Stanford hospital in Palo Alto due to heart complications.[6][7] He died August 16 while awaiting a heart transplant.[8][9]"

He probably had some really bad heart disease genetics. Most bodybuilder's hearts don't get cooked that badly from steroid use. It's possible he abused some orals or tren year round too, but i'm sure there was a strong genetic component here.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> He probably had some really bad heart disease genetics.


 Damn. what scan should one really get to analyse heart health?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Damn. what scan should one really get to analyse heart health?


 There's all kinds of tests EKG, angiographies, CT calcium scan. They can look at your heart rhythm, look at the blood flow in your chambers, calcification and narrowing of your arteries.

Testing is extremely accurate in cardiology, so you can catch this stuff early and easily. Each test has it's own strength/weakness.


----------



## Pancake'

Also a side cardio, how beneficial do you think solely intense weightlifting is? from a cardiovascular/fitness wellbeing perspective.

will be acquiring a treadmill & cardio equipment soon thanks to yourself.  but say I did consistent daily cardio, if I did some at 6am then lifted of say 6pm, do you think it could hinder/improve performance in the weight room? I can't thank you enough man for making me realise the importance.

How do you think a cross trainer, bike or row machine compare to a treadmill?

Do you recommend morning cardio in a fasted state?

Do you rate kettlebells, kettlebell swings etc.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> It does, you can believe it or not but doctor's don't know s**t about a lot of things unfortunately.
> 
> Obesity is one of the biggest risk factors for breathing issues, sleep apnea and snoring.
> 
> 4 weeks should have your E2 levels stable after starting long ester Test, 2 weeks for prop.
> 
> You start Adex from the first jab, Testosterone levels are extremely high after the first injection already.


 yeah that's what I thought he was talking crap about it not being related to obesity etc

should I start at the lower end for adex 0.25 mon wed friday for 625mg test e? or start straight at 0.5mg Monday and Thursday?

then get bloods and adjust if needed after 4 weeks

just paranoid about crashing E2 levels


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Curcumin/Pine bark is better and works through different mechanisms. They do a lot more.
> 
> Too much c and e are not good either and they have 0 effect on inflammation.


 Is there any point in taking 2g vitamin c daily for injury healing?


----------



## Will2309

Pancake' said:


> Damn. what scan should one really get to analyse heart health?


 I recently had a myocardio perfusion scan which Checks the blood flow through you arteries and into the heart chambers .


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

Do you think skipping for 20 - 30 minutes for cardiovascular health would benefit you the same way as running would


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> There's all kinds of tests EKG, angiographies, CT calcium scan. They can look at your heart rhythm, look at the blood flow in your chambers, calcification and narrowing of your arteries.
> 
> Testing is extremely accurate in cardiology, so you can catch this stuff early and easily. Each test has it's own strength/weakness.


 Cool. How frequently would you do this in a money-is-no-object-world?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> 0.8 gram per lbs of LEAN BODY MASS for bulking
> 
> 1 gram per lbs of LEAN BODY MASS for cutting.
> 
> Not 1 gram per lbs of total weight but lean body mass.
> 
> You can eat under this but you need to supplement BCAA for best results if you don't get enough protein. People think more is better but it's not true, there's only so much amino acid your body can utilize, the rest is forced through your kidneys and pissed out or stored as fat in a surplus. You need *DECA* to optimally build muscle.


 Fixed it


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Also a side cardio, how beneficial do you think solely intense weightlifting is? from a cardiovascular/fitness wellbeing perspective.
> 
> will be acquiring a treadmill & cardio equipment soon thanks to yourself.  but say I did consistent daily cardio, if I did some at 6am then lifted of say 6pm, do you think it could hinder/improve performance in the weight room? I can't thank you enough man for making me realise the importance.
> 
> How do you think a cross trainer, bike or row machine compare to a treadmill?
> 
> Do you recommend morning cardio in a fasted state?
> 
> Do you rate kettlebells, kettlebell swings etc.


 Not good enough, you can get some light stimulus to the heart with intense weightlifting, it's not enough to get the adaptations you need from cardio.

If you keep it light-moderate and limit to under 30 minutes, it should not affect your lifts 12 hours later. That's why i like 24 mins @ 5 mph then 6 minute cooldown walk.

I prefer treadmill, simple, easy and it works. Some people have joint issues so elliptical/bike can work better for them. As long as you get your heart rate to 140-170 bpm for +20 minutes, it doesn't matter how you do it.

Cardio at any time you can keep doing it, it doesn't matter. Fasted might provide a minute benefit to fat loss, but as long as you do it consistently, timing and fasting won't make much difference.

I think kettlebells/swings are pretty dumb to be honest.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> yeah that's what I thought he was talking crap about it not being related to obesity etc
> 
> should I start at the lower end for adex 0.25 mon wed friday for 625mg test e? or start straight at 0.5mg Monday and Thursday?
> 
> then get bloods and adjust if needed after 4 weeks
> 
> just paranoid about crashing E2 levels


 It depends how much you aromatize, At that dose i might do 0.5 mg Mon/Thurs.

1 mg per week is a moderate dose, 600 mg is a moderate dose, it should be a fair starting point.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Is there any point in taking 2g vitamin c daily for injury healing?


 1 gram is more than enough, stack it with zinc too for best results. Too much vitamin C taxes the kidneys and can lead to kidney stones.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do you think skipping for 20 - 30 minutes for cardiovascular health would benefit you the same way as running would


 Definitely, jump rope is excellent for building agility and dexterity and it can be more fun than running for a lot of people. What matters most is getting your heart rate up, what exercise you use to get there doesn't matter.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Cool. How frequently would you do this in a money-is-no-object-world?


 Every 2 years is plenty, even every 5 years would do the job too.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> I prefer treadmill, simple, easy and it works. Some people have joint issues so elliptical/bike can work better for them. As long as you get your heart rate to 140-170 bpm for +20 minutes, it doesn't matter how you do it.


 What are your thoughts on cardio for fat loss?

From what I've read/ understand 30-40 mins LISS in the desired fat burn zone (125 bpm for me) is optimal?


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> What are your thoughts on cardio for fat loss?
> 
> From what I've read/ understand 30-40 mins LISS in the desired fat burn zone (125 bpm for me) is optimal?


 Irrelevant, the only important factor is calories in vs calories out. Exercise helps you increase the calories out part. The intensity you use won't make any significant difference in fat loss.

I do recommend LISS because it's easier on the body and won't affect your lifts the same way HIIT or sprinting can, just focus on using any kind of cardio that your prefer and will adhere to.


----------



## JBlast

1) CRUISE

150mg test e 150mg masteron e

vs

150 test e 150 dhb

vs

300mg test e

Pros and cons ?

2) DOES HIGHER TEST MEANS MORE LIBIDO? FOR EXAMPLE ONE WILL HAVE MORE LIBIDO ON 300MG TEST E VS 150MG TEST E 150MG MASTERON E

3) IS IT TRUE A BODY WITH HIGHER TESTOSTERONE WILL HAVE MORE THICKNESS?

I READ IT THERE

http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?27191-How-would-you-describe-the-look-of-each-different-AAS

FOR EXAMPLE 150MG TEST E 150MG MAST E I WILL LOOK LESS THICK,. MORE FLAT, DRY, TIGHT COMPARING TO 300MG TEST E (MORE THICK, LESS FLAT, DRY, TIGHT)? (WITH THE SAME DIET OFC)


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> It depends how much you aromatize, At that dose i might do 0.5 mg Mon/Thurs.
> 
> 1 mg per week is a moderate dose, 600 mg is a moderate dose, it should be a fair starting point.


 ok thanks.

to take all the guesswork out of e2 levels and AI etc

would 150mg test per week plus 300 tren e and 300 mast be suitable for a bulk?

Or am I best trying the higher test dose at 600mg?

as right now on cruise dose my appetite has gone down quite a lot.. my strength etc is only a few reps down on same weights.

just obviously need to be able to get the calories in


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> ok thanks.
> 
> to take all the guesswork out of e2 levels and AI etc
> 
> would 150mg test per week plus 300 tren e and 300 mast be suitable for a bulk?
> 
> Or am I best trying the higher test dose at 600mg?
> 
> as right now on cruise dose my appetite has gone down quite a lot.. my strength etc is only a few reps down on same weights.
> 
> just obviously need to be able to get the calories in


 You're better off with 300/300 or 600/600 test/tren. Mast is fairly weak, especially for getting lean tissue.

If you want test low so E2 isn't a problem, go for 150 mg test, 300 mg tren/350-700 mg winstrol. Testosterone is very good for lean tissue and strength though, so you are missing out but you can still build muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> 1) CRUISE
> 
> 150mg test e 150mg masteron e
> 
> vs
> 
> 150 test e 150 dhb
> 
> vs
> 
> 300mg test e
> 
> Pros and cons ?
> 
> 2) DOES HIGHER TEST MEANS MORE LIBIDO? FOR EXAMPLE ONE WILL HAVE MORE LIBIDO ON 300MG TEST E VS 150MG TEST E 150MG MASTERON E
> 
> 3) IS IT TRUE A BODY WITH HIGHER TESTOSTERONE WILL HAVE MORE THICKNESS?
> 
> I READ IT THERE
> 
> http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?27191-How-would-you-describe-the-look-of-each-different-AAS
> 
> FOR EXAMPLE 150MG TEST E 150MG MAST E I WILL LOOK LESS THICK,. MORE FLAT, DRY, TIGHT COMPARING TO 300MG TEST E (MORE THICK, LESS FLAT, DRY, TIGHT)? (WITH THE SAME DIET OFC)


 1- 150/150 of test and mast or DHB is better most of the time. 300 mg testosterone will lead to higher E2 levels, higher HCT, higher appetite. Mast/DHB will polish your physique, dry you out a bit.

If you have prostate issues, masteron isn't good as it can flare up BPH and make pissing more difficult.

2- No, many people feel their libido is best on TRT dose, others feel higher libido with higher testosterone. Everyone is different. Estradiol is a big factor, estrogen that is too high and too low can negatively affect libido, this is also genetic.

3- Thickness mostly comes from having dense muscle mass without being flat ( low carb ). Testosterone does tend to promote thickness as it can increase nitrogen retention and pumped up muscles, but if you have a lot of muscle and you aren't flat from low carb, you're gonna be thick. Coming off testosterone and doing winstrol only per say won't make a thick guy stop being thick.

In the example you gave, you might "look" more thick due to water retention from higher testosterone level. Steroids like winstrol will tend to suck out water and give you a dry/leaner look. So i would agree in this situation.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> You're better off with 300/300 or 600/600 test/tren. Mast is fairly weak, especially for getting lean tissue.
> 
> If you want test low so E2 isn't a problem, go for 150 mg test, 300 mg tren/350-700 mg winstrol. Testosterone is very good for lean tissue and strength though, so you are missing out but you can still build muscle.


 I'm fairly low body fat so was going to try use mast as I would possibly see the difference with it and also instead of using proviron. (never tried mast before)

heard mast can help with sides from tren unsure of that is person dependant or not correct at all?

I'm getting winstrol to use for the last 4 weeks at 50mg per day. so 350mg per week as you said maybe will dose higher

would the extra test at 600mg/ 250 tren / 250 mast be beneficial or likely to cause more problems than sticking with 300 of each compound?

I've got Tudca to dose at 250mg and NAC to use throughout cycle is dose 1200mg per day fine?


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> I'm fairly low body fat so was going to try use mast as I would possibly see the difference with it and also instead of using proviron. (never tried mast before)
> 
> heard mast can help with sides from tren unsure of that is person dependant or not correct at all?
> 
> I'm getting winstrol to use for the last 4 weeks at 50mg per day. so 350mg per week as you said maybe will dose higher
> 
> would the extra test at 600mg/ 250 tren / 250 mast be beneficial or likely to cause more problems than sticking with 300 of each compound?
> 
> I've got Tudca to dose at 250mg and NAC to use throughout cycle is dose 1200mg per day fine?


 What are you looking for from the mast? Winstrol is much more powerful at drying out physique, increasing vascularity, mass and strength.

Mast can sometimes help with tren sides, but that's person dependent.

You can run winstrol for the whole cycle if it's 12 weeks or under.

More test = more mass/strength but more sides. Up to you.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> What are you looking for from the mast? Winstrol is much more powerful at drying out physique, increasing vascularity, mass and strength.
> 
> Mast can sometimes help with tren sides, but that's person dependent.
> 
> You can run winstrol for the whole cycle if it's 12 weeks or under.
> 
> More test = more mass/strength but more sides. Up to you.


 @ElChapo I replied under your comment initially but it didn't show up for some reason.

the mast just for the fact it can maybe help with tren sides and e2 and iv never used it but I can just use tren test and Winstrol.

Was also thinking using mast as tren can sometimes effect libido/mood the mast would help with that. but would winstrol do a similar job as mast or proviron can, it's high dht conversion or raises dht? or is it not the same.

yeah it's 12 week blast but I assumed using tren and Winstrol for that long was maybe asking for problems. as generally I read up to 6-8 weeks is maximum for oral steroids.

if I ran it at 600 test/ 250 tren and mast plus the 50th per day winstrol I guess this would be quite good for lean bulking?


----------



## ElChapo

?


----------



## Pancake'

Any experience with injectable orals? and do they reduce stress on liver?

This might be obvious, but would you say the rock uses hgh and insulin?

Stance on CBD Oil to treat joint pain or arthritis?

What AAS have the greatest synergy?

Hypothetically, If you tore a pec or bicep and wanted to accelerate recovery as fast as possible, how would you go about it?

When indulged in risk taking and exposed to something dangerous and testosterone levels spike, is it significant enough to increase a performance, likelihood of impulsiveness and ultimately alter decision making? think police chase or holding a firearm.

If you posses a gene that's linked to certain traits is it certain that you will? DRD4 and DRD4-D7 if you had either, would you typically be a person with what's associated with them?

What quits first the body or the mind?


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> I do recommend LISS because it's easier on the body and won't affect your lifts the same way HIIT or sprinting can, just focus on using any kind of cardio that your prefer and will adhere to.


 i find jogging even if light to be a higher risk of pulling something or my knees hurting being i compete in 125kg PL so knees take a battering as is

currently do 5% incline walking 5kph for 20-30 mins post wo
do you think this would suffice for biggest return on minimal investment for health ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo minimal Winstrol dosage to get effect ?

I remember taking 40mg and having really bad anxiety , almost panic attack so I completely stopped.

But if I remember correctly , 10mg was okay , but I guess 10mg is too low?


----------



## Whoremoan1

YOUR BACK! [email protected] YESSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 on chinese gh, gh levels were highly elevated but igf remained same as natural igf levels .... does this mean gh is fake or is there some rare condition or something where ones igf wont raise even on legit gh after months use?

2 drinking water after a meal, ive heard this can mess with digestive enzymes and food wont digest as well, any truth to this ?

3 highest you would ever run clen ?

4 do you avoid excersises that dont give a good pump ? (for me; laying cable tricep extension doesnt give a good pump?) yet overhead tricep press and standing cable overhead tricep does&#8230;

5 this may be a way off question but, do you believe in custom orthotics? recently found out my left leg is pronated more than right, and i swear this has made my left quad grow different than right , possibly even throwing my hips and spine off

6 how many sets do you do per bodypart? asking because should i stop once the pump has gone (this usually happens for me around 12-15 sets; biceps about 10th set) ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Real benefits of berberine supplementation ? worth or not ?


----------



## capo

@ElChapo been out of the gym for a while and hopefully should be back in a few weeks lower back /trapped nerve in leg going to have to take it steady light weights LISS cardio etc, looking to cut naturally what body fat percentage is it safe to cut to without risking loosing muscle diet in check.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo can Orals cause inflammation in the body in the same way that sugar/trans fats etc can? As they're consumed through the GI tract? Also can high doses of injectables cause inflammation in a different way than orals do?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Any experience with injectable orals? and do they reduce stress on liver?
> 
> This might be obvious, but would you say the rock uses hgh and insulin?
> 
> Stance on CBD Oil to treat joint pain or arthritis?
> 
> What AAS have the greatest synergy?
> 
> Hypothetically, If you tore a pec or bicep and wanted to accelerate recovery as fast as possible, how would you go about it?
> 
> When indulged in risk taking and exposed to something dangerous and testosterone levels spike, is it significant enough to increase a performance, likelihood of impulsiveness and ultimately alter decision making? think police chase or holding a firearm.
> 
> If you posses a gene that's linked to certain traits is it certain that you will? DRD4 and DRD4-D7 if you had either, would you typically be a person with what's associated with them?
> 
> What quits first the body or the mind?


 Injectable orals - less dose needed for same effect, less liver toxicity but still toxic. I prefer injections for oral AAS. Half-life is also longer.

He likely does.

CBD oil; no personal experience, seems to be THE thing right now. Cannibinoids have always been potent natural pain killers and your body actually produces some naturally. There's some interesting research showing benefits for a lot of conditions and minimal-no side effects. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5569602/

You can't go wrong with test base, 19 nor (tren/deca), and a DHT or Oral. Synergy is less important than total dose+progressive overload+calorie surplus. I really like winstrol for it's ability to suck out water and greatly increase strength. It goes well with anything.

Torn bicep/pec: Physical therapy program, 3-5 IU GH daily. This usually happens when people try to lift too much weight/ego lift.

Testosterone spike/reactivity: Yes, research has proven those who respond assertively/aggressively to challenge get an immediate spike in testosterone, on the other hand, those who back down or cower from challenge get a drop in testosterone and a spike in cortisol. Increase in performance would come from the adrenaline spike.

Personality is something like 50/50 genetics/environment. Just because you have addiction/novelty seeking genetics does not mean you will be this type of person. You need to take into account upbringing, personality, discipline, etc. Having these genes definitely doesn't mean you will be a drug addict or novelty seeker, it just increases the chances.

Body/Mind, it depends which is stronger. Some people have very strong willpower and pain tolerance (this is partially genetic too), others are in incredible shape but cower away from pain/discomfort and quit easily. So to answer the question, it depends on the person.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo I replied under your comment initially but it didn't show up for some reason.
> 
> the mast just for the fact it can maybe help with tren sides and e2 and iv never used it but I can just use tren test and Winstrol.
> 
> Was also thinking using mast as tren can sometimes effect libido/mood the mast would help with that. but would winstrol do a similar job as mast or proviron can, it's high dht conversion or raises dht? or is it not the same.
> 
> yeah it's 12 week blast but I assumed using tren and Winstrol for that long was maybe asking for problems. as generally I read up to 6-8 weeks is maximum for oral steroids.
> 
> if I ran it at 600 test/ 250 tren and mast plus the 50th per day winstrol I guess this would be quite good for lean bulking?


 Mast doesn't contribute much to mass or strength. You're better off with the winstrol.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> i find jogging even if light to be a higher risk of pulling something or my knees hurting being i compete in 125kg PL so knees take a battering as is
> 
> currently do 5% incline walking 5kph for 20-30 mins post wo
> do you think this would suffice for biggest return on minimal investment for health ?


 Try jogging light ( around 5 mph) focus on stepping lightly and using your muscles to take the shock out of your steps. The most important thing for reducing knee stress and pressure when jogging on a treadmill is adding a slight incline. 1% works for me and there's a huge difference in how my knees feel. Try it next time. Technically, a neutral incline on a treadmill simulates downhill running more than flat surface, so this can put a lot of stress on the knees.

The best cardiovascular benefit to longevity, cardiovascular health and disease prevention comes from the 130-160 BPM range. Each form of cardio has it's own benefit.

Walking = Easiest on the joints, uses little energy so it affects strength/recovery the least, Drawbacks: takes the longest.

Jogging = Fairly easy on the joints with good technique, most benefits to overall health and disease prevention, takes more time than walking but 20 minutes is plenty.

HIIT/sprinting = Most time efficient, takes the most energy and can impact strength/recovery, also good for the heart but not in the same way as moderate cardio.

The jogging helps the heart chambers get bigger so they can hold more blood, the sprinting makes the heart stronger so it can pump more blood forcefully.

I've tried many different routines for cardio to try to get maximum return with minimal time investment. I found personally, that a light 24 minute jog with a 6 minute cooldown walk did the trick. I feel energized afterwards and my lifts actually benefited.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo minimal Winstrol dosage to get effect ?
> 
> I remember taking 40mg and having really bad anxiety , almost panic attack so I completely stopped.
> 
> But if I remember correctly , 10mg was okay , but I guess 10mg is too low?


 This is why i always tell people everyone has a different response to different AAS, you need to experiment and see what your body works best with.

For bodybuilding purposes 50 mg daily to start with. More advanced users can bump it to 100 mg daily.

10-25 mg is something i would recommend to an athlete for recovery and a bit of strength/sprinting performance.

If your body doesn't respond well to winstrol, you can try superdrol. Remember, you're not always going to feel great on cycle, nothing in life is free, you gotta take the good with the bad. The sides are temporary, the muscle is permanent if you know how to keep it.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> YOUR BACK! [email protected] YESSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 1 on chinese gh, gh levels were highly elevated but igf remained same as natural igf levels .... does this mean gh is fake or is there some rare condition or something where ones igf wont raise even on legit gh after months use?
> 
> 2 drinking water after a meal, ive heard this can mess with digestive enzymes and food wont digest as well, any truth to this ?
> 
> 3 highest you would ever run clen ?
> 
> 4 do you avoid excersises that dont give a good pump ? (for me; laying cable tricep extension doesnt give a good pump?) yet overhead tricep press and standing cable overhead tricep does&#8230;
> 
> 5 this may be a way off question but, do you believe in custom orthotics? recently found out my left leg is pronated more than right, and i swear this has made my left quad grow different than right , possibly even throwing my hips and spine off
> 
> 6 how many sets do you do per bodypart? asking because should i stop once the pump has gone (this usually happens for me around 12-15 sets; biceps about 10th set) ?


 1- How long after starting GH did you test IGF-1?

2- No

3- 100 mcg, after that, let your caloric deficit/cardio do the work.

4- No, pump is nice and it's good for accessories, but having a strong bench, squat, deadlift lays the foundation for a lot mass/thickness. The greatest bodybuilders of all time did both powerlifting movements AND accessories for individual muscles.

5- You would need to consult a sports medicine doctor. These guys are prioritize athleticism and functional capacity more than a physical therapist, podiatrist or regular orthopedist, so favor them for these kinds of issues.

6- 6-10 should do the job for accessory work, 3-5 for compound lifts like bench, squat, deadlift.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Real benefits of berberine supplementation ? worth or not ?


 Same as metformin. You will get the same effect with either.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo been out of the gym for a while and hopefully should be back in a few weeks lower back /trapped nerve in leg going to have to take it steady light weights LISS cardio etc, looking to cut naturally what body fat percentage is it safe to cut to without risking loosing muscle diet in check.


 It's partially down to genetics how well your body handles low body levels because you tend to have a natural set point where your body likes to gravitate. There are strategies to overcome this including intermittent fasting, and carb refeeds.

10% is very easily obtainable and you should lose 0 muscle/strength as long as you don't cut more than 500 calories daily. Once you get to single digit body fat, strength can take a hit and metabolism slows down significantly. Focus on lose no strength, and you will lose little to no muscle. Keep your carbs high through the cut. Aim for 1 gram per lbs of lean body mass for protein.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo can Orals cause inflammation in the body in the same way that sugar/trans fats etc can? As they're consumed through the GI tract? Also can high doses of injectables cause inflammation in a different way than orals do?


 I doubt it.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> This is why i always tell people everyone has a different response to different AAS, you need to experiment and see what your body works best with.
> 
> For bodybuilding purposes 50 mg daily to start with. More advanced users can bump it to 100 mg daily.
> 
> 10-25 mg is something i would recommend to an athlete for recovery and a bit of strength/sprinting performance.
> 
> If your body doesn't respond well to winstrol, you can try superdrol. Remember, you're not always going to feel great on cycle, nothing in life is free, you gotta take the good with the bad. The sides are temporary, the muscle is permanent if you know how to keep it.


 you're totally right on that I m with you , I've tried a lot and at different times/dosage .

I did superdrol , 10 to 20mg cycle felt like s**t but I guess like everyone the lethargy is hard but gains/aesthetic were ridiculous.. wasn't training for strength at that time but I was really lean and looked big on it. Other bad side was gut problems(bloating, gas) like I have on anavar.

I also did epistane(first AAS ) and I loved it , how d you compare epistane to winstrol ? from both I had strength gains , some joint pain and made me loss all water retention.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Same as metformin. You will get the same effect with either.


 So it's useful on a cut for someone healthy ?


----------



## SoberHans

What's your opinion on cardarine helping tren sides?

Reason I ask is im three weeks into tren ace cycle on 375mg a week and got barely any sides but my test dosage is only 250mg a week and I'm taking 20mg cardarine a day.

No night sweats although it is cold at the minute, unrine hasn't changed colour, don't feel much stronger yet.

It's from a lab with a good reputation too.

Do you think I should still be getting these sides?

Had them only other time taking tren but test was double and no cardarine.

Taking aromasin and caber before and now too.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> you're totally right on that I m with you , I've tried a lot and at different times/dosage .
> 
> I did superdrol , 10 to 20mg cycle felt like s**t but I guess like everyone the lethargy is hard but gains/aesthetic were ridiculous.. wasn't training for strength at that time but I was really lean and looked big on it. Other bad side was gut problems(bloating, gas) like I have on anavar.
> 
> I also did epistane(first AAS ) and I loved it , how d you compare epistane to winstrol ? from both I had strength gains , some joint pain and made me loss all water retention.


 Never ran epi, it's similar though.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> So it's useful on a cut for someone healthy ?


 You dont need it. Verdict is still out on benefit of metformin for non-diabetics.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> What's your opinion on cardarine helping tren sides?
> 
> Reason I ask is im three weeks into tren ace cycle on 375mg a week and got barely any sides but my test dosage is only 250mg a week and I'm taking 20mg cardarine a day.
> 
> No night sweats although it is cold at the minute, unrine hasn't changed colour, don't feel much stronger yet.
> 
> It's from a lab with a good reputation too.
> 
> Do you think I should still be getting these sides?
> 
> Had them only other time taking tren but test was double and no cardarine.
> 
> Taking aromasin and caber before and now too.
> 
> Thanks


 I get orange urine over 200 mg, but some people don't get urine color changes.

Some people don't get crazy results from trenbolone and its a lackluster AAS for them.

In my opinion its overrated. Reading around the internet you think taking tren will give you an 8 pack while eating a tub of ice cream a day and have you benching 315 for reps in 4 weeks.

If you are trying a source for the first time, i strongly recommend a labmax kit for tren/npp/var/winstrol/etc or a blood test for testosterone.

Don't know much about most of the peptides in vogue right now to be honest. I'm not overly impressed by them.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

As you know some orals give stomach discomforts / gut problems / bloating gas..

Is there things that can help decrease this side effect ? high dose probiotics maybe?

Since I'm training for strength mostly and on a small cut atm , I'd love to add small dose of anavar but even with 10mg I get a pregnant stomach with constant gas

I just bought some probiotics and enzymes for my gut health , and was wondering if this could counteract the stomach discomfort from anavar


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> As you know some orals give stomach discomforts / gut problems / bloating gas..
> 
> Is there things that can help decrease this side effect ? high dose probiotics maybe?
> 
> Since I'm training for strength mostly and on a small cut atm , I'd love to add small dose of anavar but even with 10mg I get a pregnant stomach with constant gas
> 
> I just bought some probiotics and enzymes for my gut health , and was wondering if this could counteract the stomach discomfort from anavar


 Just gotta deal with it. It's one of the costs of steroid use. i don't know if those will help.


----------



## 6083

ElChapo

At the moment I am using a combination of test, mast and tren enanthates totalling just over a gram. Eod tren acetate ontop, GH and slin postworkout. Nolva 20mg , caber 0.5 x2

I am starting to get some level of water retention, puffy face etc as the enanthates are kicking in.

Is there any remedy to this, should I just accept it?

I've never been concerned with it in the past but now I've decided it screams 'gear head' and I'd prefer to fly under the radar because even though my wife does my injections for me accepts it, she always points it out.

any suggestions?


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> ElChapo
> 
> At the moment I am using a combination of test, mast and tren enanthates totalling just over a gram. Eod tren acetate ontop, GH and slin postworkout. Nolva 20mg , caber 0.5 x2
> 
> I am starting to get some level of water retention, puffy face etc as the enanthates are kicking in.
> 
> Is there any remedy to this, should I just accept it?
> 
> I've never been concerned with it in the past but now I've decided it screams 'gear head' and I'd prefer to fly under the radar because even though my wife does my injections for me accepts it, she always points it out.
> 
> any suggestions?


 This is one of the reasons i run test prop. Enanthate gives me nasty facial puffiness even at low doses and low body fat levels.

Nothing has worked for me for enanthate moon face, not even AI or water consumption. I think some are more sensitive than others to it, and some are immune.

I know the feeling, when you look like s**t, you feel like s**t. The moonface drives me nuts. I don't touch enanthate for that reason anymore. Test prop completely fixed it, i can run a gram without a problem, but 200 mg enanthate will bloat me up good. Another bonus to prop is that i FEEL it more. More strength, more energy, better pump, etc. Kicks in much faster too.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> Another bonus to prop is that i FEEL it more. More strength, more energy, better pump, etc. Kicks in much faster too.


 Agreed, I love short esters. I felt like the Hulk on Prop and Sust250 - its just the frequency I have a hard time dealing with.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Agreed, I love short esters. I felt like the Hulk on Prop and Sust250 - its just the frequency I have a hard time dealing with.


 You can inject twice a week with short ester with no issues.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I get orange urine over 200 mg, but some people don't get urine color changes.
> 
> Some people don't get crazy results from trenbolone and its a lackluster AAS for them.
> 
> In my opinion its overrated. Reading around the internet you think taking tren will give you an 8 pack while eating a tub of ice cream a day and have you benching 315 for reps in 4 weeks.
> 
> If you are trying a source for the first time, i strongly recommend a labmax kit for tren/npp/var/winstrol/etc or a blood test for testosterone.
> 
> Don't know much about most of the peptides in vogue right now to be honest. I'm not overly impressed by them.


 Thanks for the reply.

I had urine colour change last time I took tren but not this time.

The lab is triumph which is very popular and I've used them before and only ever had one problem and that was crippling pip.

Will have to buy one of them kits.


----------



## Pancake'

Why do you favour reverse pyramid style training?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I had urine colour change last time I took tren but not this time.
> 
> The lab is triumph which is very popular and I've used them before and only ever had one problem and that was crippling pip.
> 
> Will have to buy one of them kits.


 Yeah, the labmax kit is a good investment.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Why do you favour reverse pyramid style training?


 It makes more sense to do your heaviest set first, not the other way around.

With regular pyramid training, you fatigue your muscles before you get to your heaviest weight, it makes no sense at all.

I generally like reverse pyramid training because it lets you go through the whole rep range spectrum.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> You can inject twice a week with short ester with no issues.


 Ive pinned Prop e3d. The difference between pinning eod and e3d was unreal.

I was a complete sex pest pinning eod, my girlfriend appreciated me pinning e3d anyway :lol: .


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> It makes more sense to do your heaviest set first, not the other way around.
> 
> With regular pyramid training, you fatigue your muscles before you get to your heaviest weight, it makes no sense at all.
> 
> I generally like reverse pyramid training because it lets you go through the whole rep range spectrum.


 I've always trained like this and thought exactly the same. I naturally just seemed to of gravitated towards it, for the reasons you mention.


----------



## Pancake'

I feel crap when I refill glycogen stores. I eat some sugars & carbs and entire upper body; delts, pecs, biceps, trapz all becomes incredibly tight. like a pump. I tend to breathe a bit difficult as well.

I'm a bit like a sponge with carbs could this mean I'm sensitive to insulin?


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Ive pinned Prop e3d. The difference between pinning eod and e3d was unreal.
> 
> I was a complete sex pest pinning eod, my girlfriend appreciated me pinning e3d anyway :lol: .


 I actually feel better on twice per week on prop than more frequent injections, maybe something to do with E2 metabolism.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I've always trained like this and thought exactly the same. I naturally just seemed to of gravitated towards it, for the reasons you mention.


 I've gotten best results from reverse pyramid training.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I feel crap when I refill glycogen stores. I eat some sugars & carbs and entire upper body; delts, pecs, biceps, trapz all becomes incredibly tight. like a pump. I tend to breathe a bit difficult as well.
> 
> I'm a bit like a sponge with carbs could this mean I'm sensitive to insulin?


 Crap in what way? If you feel sleepy and tired/lethargic, that's a huge wave of serotonin/tryptophan which is normal and relaxing.

I get a huge libido spike and decrease in stress levels with a great increase in restful sleep after carb refeed if i've been cutting for a while.

I get the same effect, you drop water, muscles get pumped and hard. It's the beauty of the carb refeed. Eat more to burn more fat. It's a very important part of a good cutting program when you are already lean or cutting for long periods of time.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Crap in what way? If you feel sleepy and tired/lethargic, that's a huge wave of serotonin/tryptophan which is normal and relaxing.
> 
> I get a huge libido spike and decrease in stress levels with a great increase in restful sleep after carb refeed if i've been cutting for a while.
> 
> I get the same effect, you drop water, muscles get pumped and hard. It's the beauty of the carb refeed. Eat more to burn more fat. It's a very important part of a good cutting program when you are already lean or cutting for long periods of time.


 Extremely tight/restricted wellbeing, muscle spasms, breathing heavier, increased heart rate. bit lightheaded. this occurs even just drinking water when I wake up, but especially post workout. likewise I too often get the huge libido spike, especially after leg training and squats. It occurs most from squats & deadlifts I notice.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Extremely tight/restricted wellbeing, muscle spasms, breathing heavier, increased heart rate. bit lightheaded. this occurs even just drinking water when I wake up, but especially post workout. likewise I too often get the huge libido spike, especially after leg training and squats. It occurs most from squats & deadlifts I notice.


 The refeed is essential for optimal performance and results when cutting.

It's possible it's reactive hypoglycemia, like you said, sensitivity to insulin. It's fairly common but benign. When you eat a ton of carbs, your body pumps out a lot of insulin, and it drops your blood sugar low. It helps when you have some protein with your refeed to slow down the absorption.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> The refeed is essential for optimal performance and results when cutting.
> 
> It's possible it's reactive hypoglycemia, like you said, sensitivity to insulin. It's fairly common but benign. When you eat a ton of carbs, your body pumps out a lot of insulin, and it drops your blood sugar low. It helps when you have some protein with your refeed to slow down the absorption.


 Would that necessarily be a bad thing? would it be beneficial towards bodybuilding purposes? will be sure to consume protein alongside. Thank you.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Would that necessarily be a bad thing? would it be beneficial towards bodybuilding purposes? will be sure to consume protein alongside. Thank you.


 It's like the opposite of diabetes, so in a way it's a good thing. It means your cells respond well to insulin. Insulin sensitivity is always good for bodybuilding, it's one of the reason i recommend cutting/bulking in the 10-15% range. Too much body fat reduces insulin sensitivity,


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> It's like the opposite of diabetes, so in a way it's a good thing. It means your cells respond well to insulin. Insulin sensitivity is always good for bodybuilding, it's one of the reason i recommend cutting/bulking in the 10-15% range. Too much body fat reduces insulin sensitivity,


 Any specific test I can find this out for sure? If one was sensitive to insulin and used insulin would they have to tread extra carefully? easier to go hypo?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Any specific test I can find this out for sure? If one was sensitive to insulin and used insulin would they have to tread extra carefully? easier to go hypo?


 Probably glucose tolerance test. It's really not a big deal.


----------



## Pancake'

Favourite hot sauce?


----------



## ElChapo

Franks red hot buffalo and sriracha sauce


----------



## N1ke

Hi Elchapo, how to reduce acne on my back and shoulders? I don't want to take accutane. Is any other way to reduce it? Currently I'm on 125mg/test week also using zinc ( I heard that helps with skin problems) but looks like it nothing helps so far


----------



## ElChapo

N1ke said:


> Hi Elchapo, how to reduce acne on my back and shoulders? I don't want to take accutane. Is any other way to reduce it? Currently I'm on 125mg/test week also using zinc ( I heard that helps with skin problems) but looks like it nothing helps so far


 50 mg zinc picolinate, tanning x 3 per week, drink lots of water, apply nizoral shampoo to your acne spots for 5 minutes and rinse, and finish your showers with cold water.

Honestly, accutane ain't too scary. Most of the time you only need to run it once or twice in a lifetime and it will permanently cure acne.

Give the first things i listed a try for 8-12 weeks, it should work for mild acne. If it doesn't work i would consider acne.


----------



## N1ke

ElChapo said:


> 50 mg zinc picolinate, tanning x 3 per week, drink lots of water, apply nizoral shampoo to your acne spots for 5 minutes and rinse, and finish your showers with cold water.
> 
> Honestly, accutane ain't too scary. Most of the time you only need to run it once or twice in a lifetime and it will permanently cure acne.
> 
> Give the first things i listed a try for 8-12 weeks, it should work for mild acne. If it doesn't work i would consider acne.


 Thanks a lot. I will get some nizoral tomorrow


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> 0.6 IU/kg/day is the dose used in some studies for wound healing and it worked. I'd say 2-4 IU will do the job.


 If I am hearing you right, not much point in going above 2-4 iu if you want the GH to assist in injury healing?

The reason I ask is because I'm already doing GH peptide shots 5x daily. I have comtemplated adding a low dose of mk 667 to the stack. Do you think it would be overkill?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> If I am hearing you right, not much point in going above 2-4 iu if you want the GH to assist in injury healing?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I'm already doing GH peptide shots 5x daily. I have comtemplated adding a low dose of mk 667 to the stack. Do you think it would be overkill?


 Since it's GH peptide, you might as well throw in the mk 667.


----------



## pma111

Which foods do you suggest with high satiety. I would assume any with higher soluble fiber content.

I also read elsewhere really high fiber could lower testosterone which sounded like bullshit but whats your view.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Which foods do you suggest with high satiety. I would assume any with higher soluble fiber content.
> 
> I also read elsewhere really high fiber could lower testosterone which sounded like bullshit but whats your view.


 Protein and carbs , like sandwiches or chicken with rice. Keeping carbs high keeps leptin high, leptin is what decides whether satiety is there or not. When you cut for a long time or get very lean, leptin levels drop significantly. The only way to reverse that is to get fat again or increase your carbohydrate & calorie intake.

Fiber/testosterone is BS, if there's any effect it won't be significant.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Franks red hot buffalo and sriracha sauce


 Good choices. Unfortunately had both till they come out my ears.


----------



## pma111

Does cialis help with anti inflammation throughout the body or only certain areas such as the prostate. And could your body ever build a tolerance to cialis e.g it lose its circulation/inflammation benefits over time.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Does cialis help with anti inflammation throughout the body or only certain areas such as the prostate. And could your body ever build a tolerance to cialis e.g it lose its circulation/inflammation benefits over time.


 I believe so

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23028874

No tolerance to cialis, it's just not in the mechanism.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> I believe so
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23028874
> 
> No tolerance to cialis, it's just not in the mechanism.


 Wow... never knew it may help triglycerides and insulin resistance too. Quite an allrounder.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Wow... never knew it may help triglycerides and insulin resistance too. Quite an allrounder.


 Take the studies with a grain of salt since it's done on rodents, but there's a good chance there are positive effects in humans.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 1- How long after starting GH did you test IGF-1?
> 
> 2- No
> 
> 3- 100 mcg, after that, let your caloric deficit/cardio do the work.
> 
> 4- No, pump is nice and it's good for accessories, but having a strong bench, squat, deadlift lays the foundation for a lot mass/thickness. The greatest bodybuilders of all time did both powerlifting movements AND accessories for individual muscles.
> 
> 5- You would need to consult a sports medicine doctor. These guys are prioritize athleticism and functional capacity more than a physical therapist, podiatrist or regular orthopedist, so favor them for these kinds of issues.
> 
> 6- 6-10 should do the job for accessory work, 3-5 for compound lifts like bench, squat, deadlift.


 i tested 2 months after constant use , 6 days of 4iu split into 2 injections

i did sub q 5iu 2.5 hours before bloods were taken

igf was still within normal ranges (just at the top of an average male range)

would this indicate the gh is fake ? it isnt pharma...


----------



## Redsy

Thanks for your time on this thread. Probably the best collection of information i've read. Dont know how @ghost.recon will summarise in a blog post!! Good luck 

Anyway i read with interest previously on how you consider that if someone can become insulin sensitive it is a positive for building muscle. I have also read on external sources when you get into ketosis blood sugar readings can be skewed as you can become insulin sensitive.

I am on a very low carb diet and close to ketosis if not already. I react very well to keto, can lose weight, miss meals, eat in calorie ranges am after, feel energetic etc. After a period am comfortable. As am pretty athletic and cycling is my sport find i can ride at low intensity for 3-4 hrs with minimal food intake. If i do a ride with high intensity i do include carbs, they act like a turbo charge for me at this point once in ketosis.

1 Therefore if i respond well to keto and I am insulin sensitive during the keto diet is this a positive and brings a benefit versus to cutting on high carb/low fat. ?

2 Does this insulin sensitivity benefit my GH, i take 3IU x 4 week.

2 However, i am in much better shape than last time i did keto seriously, i was overweight and wasn't too concerned at time about muscle loss. I am now on TRT test P 180mg/week.

So i intend, to do a carb-refeed every so often, (i never did this last time as was comfotable) - how often would i do the carb refeed and what kind of amounts would you recommend? Do you stick to same calorie intake as when cutting just with increased carbs or treat this as time to load as much carbs as possible and forget the calories?


----------



## stewedw

Redsy said:


> Thanks for your time on this thread. Probably the best collection of information i've read. Dont know how @ghost.recon will summarise in a blog post!! Good luck
> 
> Anyway i read with interest previously on how you consider that if someone can become insulin sensitive it is a positive for building muscle. I have also read on external sources when you get into ketosis blood sugar readings can be skewed as you can become insulin sensitive.
> 
> I am on a very low carb diet and close to ketosis if not already. I react very well to keto, can lose weight, miss meals, eat in calorie ranges am after, feel energetic etc. After a period am comfortable. As am pretty athletic and cycling is my sport find i can ride at low intensity for 3-4 hrs with minimal food intake. If i do a ride with high intensity i do include carbs, they act like a turbo charge for me at this point once in ketosis.
> 
> 1 Therefore if i respond well to keto and I am insulin sensitive during the keto diet is this a positive and brings a benefit versus to cutting on high carb/low fat. ?
> 
> 2 Does this insulin sensitivity benefit my GH, i take 3IU x 4 week.
> 
> 2 However, i am in much better shape than last time i did keto seriously, i was overweight and wasn't too concerned at time about muscle loss. I am now on TRT test P 180mg/week.
> 
> So i intend, to do a carb-refeed every so often, (i never did this last time as was comfotable) - how often would i do the carb refeed and what kind of amounts would you recommend? Do you stick to same calorie intake as when cutting just with increased carbs or treat this as time to load as much carbs as possible and forget the calories?


 Look up Dave Palumbo cyclical keto.diet on muscletalk.co.uk. Answers all the keto based stuff. I ran just rest only firdt time round almost 9 years ago and dropped 34lbs in 10 weeks. Only started cardio six weeks in.

I did it again a ywsr later at the end of a bulk and dropped 20lbs in four weeks, test tren mast 250/200/200 or week but did daily cardio sscv for 35 mins. Personally I love it and keep strength but it works for me as I stick to it, other cutting diets I add the odd thing here or there which clearly hadds up over time. I can dm you pics taken six mk rhs apart for 8 years shaking I never got above 15% bf ever, having stated at 23% before the cut. And currently 12% at 95kg so it's changed how I looked at food for fuel, workouts and all that jazz too. Good luck.


----------



## Endomorph84

stewedw said:


> Look up Dave Palumbo cyclical keto.diet on muscletalk.co.uk. Answers all the keto based stuff.


 Does the post on Muscle Talk explain how to reverse diet out of Keto?


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I am looking at having shoulder surgery to take a small piece of bone off in a few weeks.

I have a massive stock of legit pfizer GH, some deca, BPC-157, TB500, anavar, and a few other bits.

I had planned a blast, hence having all this stuff on hand, but I'm thinking now about running it for healing/recovery for 10 weeks, and then using my cruise to get myself back into the swing of things once I can actually train properly (doesn't seem much point wasting a blast on basically clawing back muscle memory gains).

1. Is this wise?

2. If so, being that it takes a few weeks for plasma levels of deca and IGF-1 (from the HGH) to peak, would it be worth me starting now-ish, to minimise time out of BJJ/weights, or is it better to start all that crap afterward?

3. I intend to squat/leg press as heavy and hard as possible during my recovery, as it will be about the only thing I can do at first. Is there anything else you can think of (other than the normal hygiene factors, like sleep, protein/calories, etc) that would help me retain muscle and/or recover faster?

Muchisimas Gs.

EDIT:

4. Finally, I assume that if I tried to cut (say on 150 test and 200 primo) for 10-12 weeks during the recovery where I cannot train at all for 3-4 weeks and then slowly ramp it up until week 12, when I am back to full steam (and then again, cruise while training at full intensity to get back to full strength), I am asking for even more muscle loss than with the above protocol? As this would be the obvious alternative to blasting... just use this time to get super fu**ing lean.


----------



## stewedw

Endomorph84 said:


> Does the post on Muscle Talk explain how to reverse diet out of Keto?


 When you chose to stop, add 50g carbs per day post workout. Week two increase to 100 etc and slowly add until you are sitting on maintenance or above depending on your goals, reducing the fats accordingly. If you got lean enough you'll start to notice a small amount of fat gain, and that right there is your sweet spot for cals. (think the lean weight 185lber dp keto was 200g protein 100g fats. So 1800 odd cals per day to cut.)have a good read through the thread as everything's covered.


----------



## Endomorph84

stewedw said:


> have a good read through the thread as everything's covered.


 Thanks mate. I'd like to try it to say I've done it. Although I'm quite dubious of a few things is all. I'll search the link, thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> i tested 2 months after constant use , 6 days of 4iu split into 2 injections
> 
> i did sub q 5iu 2.5 hours before bloods were taken
> 
> igf was still within normal ranges (just at the top of an average male range)
> 
> would this indicate the gh is fake ? it isnt pharma...


 It might be a GH peptide coming up as GH in the test.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Thanks for your time on this thread. Probably the best collection of information i've read. Dont know how @ghost.recon will summarise in a blog post!! Good luck
> 
> Anyway i read with interest previously on how you consider that if someone can become insulin sensitive it is a positive for building muscle. I have also read on external sources when you get into ketosis blood sugar readings can be skewed as you can become insulin sensitive.
> 
> I am on a very low carb diet and close to ketosis if not already. I react very well to keto, can lose weight, miss meals, eat in calorie ranges am after, feel energetic etc. After a period am comfortable. As am pretty athletic and cycling is my sport find i can ride at low intensity for 3-4 hrs with minimal food intake. If i do a ride with high intensity i do include carbs, they act like a turbo charge for me at this point once in ketosis.
> 
> 1 Therefore if i respond well to keto and I am insulin sensitive during the keto diet is this a positive and brings a benefit versus to cutting on high carb/low fat. ?
> 
> 2 Does this insulin sensitivity benefit my GH, i take 3IU x 4 week.
> 
> 2 However, i am in much better shape than last time i did keto seriously, i was overweight and wasn't too concerned at time about muscle loss. I am now on TRT test P 180mg/week.
> 
> So i intend, to do a carb-refeed every so often, (i never did this last time as was comfotable) - how often would i do the carb refeed and what kind of amounts would you recommend? Do you stick to same calorie intake as when cutting just with increased carbs or treat this as time to load as much carbs as possible and forget the calories?


 1. The reason the carbs are optimal is because they keep glycogen stores full in the muscle. You won't have much if any glycogen in your muscle when doing keto. Muscles will be flatter and weaker/less endurance. The other important is reason is because carbohydrate intake stimulates leptin release, which is what control satiety.

2. It's good to have healthy insulin sensitivity because people with pre-diabetes or diabetes may not respond well to GH due to it' role in reducing insulin sensitivity which might lead to hyperglycemia.

3. Keto seems to work best in overweight individuals for a while. For those who are lean or very lean, high carbs offsets depleted leptin levels from low body fat or long periods of cutting.

Carb refeed frequency depends on your body fat level. What's your approximate bf %? Those below 12% can refeed once a week, 9% twice a week. For refeed, eat 10% over maintenance and eat low fat, minimum protein requirement, the rest carbohydrates.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I am looking at having shoulder surgery to take a small piece of bone off in a few weeks.
> 
> I have a massive stock of legit pfizer GH, some deca, BPC-157, TB500, anavar, and a few other bits.
> 
> I had planned a blast, hence having all this stuff on hand, but I'm thinking now about running it for healing/recovery for 10 weeks, and then using my cruise to get myself back into the swing of things once I can actually train properly (doesn't seem much point wasting a blast on basically clawing back muscle memory gains).
> 
> 1. Is this wise?
> 
> 2. If so, being that it takes a few weeks for plasma levels of deca and IGF-1 (from the HGH) to peak, would it be worth me starting now-ish, to minimise time out of BJJ/weights, or is it better to start all that crap afterward?
> 
> 3. I intend to squat/leg press as heavy and hard as possible during my recovery, as it will be about the only thing I can do at first. Is there anything else you can think of (other than the normal hygiene factors, like sleep, protein/calories, etc) that would help me retain muscle and/or recover faster?
> 
> Muchisimas Gs.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 4. Finally, I assume that if I tried to cut (say on 150 test and 200 primo) for 10-12 weeks during the recovery where I cannot train at all for 3-4 weeks and then slowly ramp it up until week 12, when I am back to full steam (and then again, cruise while training at full intensity to get back to full strength), I am asking for even more muscle loss than with the above protocol? As this would be the obvious alternative to blasting... just use this time to get super fu**ing lean.


 Yeah, start now. The recovery stack to cruise idea sounds good. Supplement zinc and vitamin C which increase wound healing. Try to eat at maintenance or slightly over.

Don't cut when you can't train your muscles. Your body will use fat AND muscle to cover your caloric needs during a deficit. When you lift, you send a message to the body to spare muscle tissue from being catabolized for energy.

If you eat at maintenance and take your GH/deca etc during recovery, you will not lose any muscle for at least 4 weeks. You might look a bit flatter from not training but muscle loss takes at least 4 weeks to start and with muscle memory, even an 8 week break you can come back from quickly. keep that in mind


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, start now. The recovery stack to cruise idea sounds good. Supplement zinc and vitamin C which increase wound healing. Try to eat at maintenance or slightly over.
> 
> Don't cut when you can't train your muscles. Your body will use fat AND muscle to cover your caloric needs during a deficit. When you lift, you send a message to the body to spare muscle tissue from being catabolized for energy.
> 
> If you eat at maintenance and take your GH/deca etc during recovery, you will not lose any muscle for at least 4 weeks. You might look a bit flatter from not training but muscle loss takes at least 4 weeks to start and with muscle memory, even an 8 week break you can come back from quickly. keep that in mind


 Thanks boss.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks boss.


 To add to that, the 3-4 weeks to start losing muscle is for natural lifters. The addition of AAS/GH should help with that further.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> To add to that, the 3-4 weeks to start losing muscle is for natural lifters. The addition of AAS/GH should help with that further.


 Cool, thanks.

Shame I cannot use the time to lean out, but that's the price you pay for jiujitsu!

Will keep this thread updated with recovery notes.


----------



## Pancake'

What advice would you give to a type 2 diabetic?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What advice would you give to a type 2 diabetic?


 Get as lean as possible, do regular cardio and strength training. These three things will enhance insulin sensitivity and bring down HbA1c.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, start now. The recovery stack to cruise idea sounds good. Supplement zinc and vitamin C which increase wound healing. Try to eat at maintenance or slightly over.
> 
> Don't cut when you can't train your muscles. Your body will use fat AND muscle to cover your caloric needs during a deficit. When you lift, you send a message to the body to spare muscle tissue from being catabolized for energy.
> 
> If you eat at maintenance and take your GH/deca etc during recovery, you will not lose any muscle for at least 4 weeks. You might look a bit flatter from not training but muscle loss takes at least 4 weeks to start and with muscle memory, even an 8 week break you can come back from quickly. keep that in mind


 How much actual lifting (in terms of load/intensity, not volume) is required to hang onto muscle when you're in a (say, 25%) deficit, out of interest?

Let's assume this test/deca/GH/var/BPC/TB500 stack has the potential to reduce my recovery time by 1/3rd (big assumption, but anyway), I'd only actually not be lifting for like 4 weeks... and then although starting light, would be lifting consistently thereafter, and after week 8ish would be at full capacity.

Could you cut for this 8ish weeks without losing substantial amounts of upper body muscle? Assume I will be using a doing literally anything that doesn't piss my shoulder off immediately post-operation (tricep rope pushdowns, grip stuff, squats, leg press, curls... multiple times per week + light LISS cardio).

Thanks for your insights.


----------



## spardaa

Hey @ElChapo, two questions if I may

1a) Given the recommendation 1g of protein per pound of LMB should non-meat based protein be counted towards this?

1b) Those recommendation are usually made for naturals. I can't seem to find any studies that support the 1g/LBM for enhanced lifters? Surely the exponential increase in protein synthesis that occurs when taking gear would/should be optimized with higher levels of protein? It makes sense that an enhanced person can 'grow more' (and quicker) given the same workout and ample nutrients.

1c) Even though all the studies suggest this amount, we all know that real world evidence trumps research. I don't think I've ever seen/heard of a huge BB'er who kept their protein that low. Most mass monsters are/were taking 2g+ per LBM, and I haven't seen many really big guys on only 1g. Maybe more protein is required?

2a) Just coming out of a cut and trying to plan the rebound. Planning on running test/Tren as per your recommendation as soon as. Im thinking whilst the esters build for the first four weeks ill just up cals to 2500 (currently on 1800). Once oils kick in ill increase from 2500 to 3000 for the rest of the cycle. Or would there be a better way to reverse the cals/timing with gear?

2b)I can't get a hold of winstrol so planning on taking anadrol/dbol (unless you have a better idea), would you suggest a quick blast of the oral for 4 weeks towards the end to compliment the higher cals/esters kicking in or simply run the orals a tad lower dose and constant for the cycle? (due to gene expression as you mentioned).

2c) Also have some GH to run. Would it be worth adding this in without slin?

2ci) If I run solo, again should I blast 8-10iu to match higher blood plasma levels of gear / orals / calories or simply run for duration at 5iu similar to the orals?

2cii) if you suggest only taking the GH with slin. Again would there be an optimized timing/dosages? Ie later towards the end of the cycle, gh/slin pre or post workout? All to be optimized for hypertrophy


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> 1. The reason the carbs are optimal is because they keep glycogen stores full in the muscle. You won't have much if any glycogen in your muscle when doing keto. Muscles will be flatter and weaker/less endurance. The other important is reason is because carbohydrate intake stimulates leptin release, which is what control satiety.
> 
> 2. It's good to have healthy insulin sensitivity because people with pre-diabetes or diabetes may not respond well to GH due to it' role in reducing insulin sensitivity which might lead to hyperglycemia.
> 
> 3. Keto seems to work best in overweight individuals for a while. For those who are lean or very lean, high carbs offsets depleted leptin levels from low body fat or long periods of cutting.
> 
> Carb refeed frequency depends on your body fat level. What's your approximate bf %? Those below 12% can refeed once a week, 9% twice a week. For refeed, eat 10% over maintenance and eat low fat, minimum protein requirement, the rest carbohydrates.


 1 do you not believe in theory then that the body uses fat to fuel and operate as is suggested in keto.

I do understand the satiety thing. Carbs certain fill, bloat me. However, fat seems to be less bloat but longer satiety for me. Can miss meals no issue.

3 nah, am not overweight. Am 80kg 44 and 177cm. Was probably 15% bf, but now 11/12%bf after losing 12lbs in 10days. But as I've just gone onto test p, TRT dose alot will be water I guess.

So refeed once per week, 10%over maintenance even though cutting.

Great, carby cheat meal! Sounds great


----------



## Pancake'

Would you say a good squat carries over well into sports? or are any additional benefits exaggerated and or overrated? let's say a 500lb 1RM.


----------



## Endomorph84

Pancake' said:


> Would you say a good squat carries over well into sports? or is it overrated. let's say a 500lb 1RM.


 Weights irrelevant as the carry over from a 5ft 10 person to a 6 ft 4 person will be so different. But one thing I can tell you from Listening to Louie Simmons is that the Squat is one the first things he has athletes work on regardless of their sport. He does away with standard and has people box squat.

He's a really interesting person mate, check out the Westside barbell podcasts and search for Louie Simmons interviews on YouTube.


----------



## Tricky

Pancake' said:


> Would you say a good squat carries over well into sports? or are any additional benefits exaggerated and or overrated? let's say a 500lb 1RM.


 Sports is such a wide question to ask. But picking a weight like 500lbs is irrelevant it's person dependant. My 200kg squat does not make me good at day football or American football as I don't train for them. Again it wouldn't carry well as you put it to MMA as I don't train any of those disciplines.


----------



## DORIAN

Hi mate what's you view on omega 3 supplements, lots of reports of prostate cancer, ? Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Hey @ElChapo, two questions if I may
> 
> 1a) Given the recommendation 1g of protein per pound of LMB should non-meat based protein be counted towards this?
> 
> 1b) Those recommendation are usually made for naturals. I can't seem to find any studies that support the 1g/LBM for enhanced lifters? Surely the exponential increase in protein synthesis that occurs when taking gear would/should be optimized with higher levels of protein? It makes sense that an enhanced person can 'grow more' (and quicker) given the same workout and ample nutrients.
> 
> 1c) Even though all the studies suggest this amount, we all know that real world evidence trumps research. I don't think I've ever seen/heard of a huge BB'er who kept their protein that low. Most mass monsters are/were taking 2g+ per LBM, and I haven't seen many really big guys on only 1g. Maybe more protein is required?
> 
> 2a) Just coming out of a cut and trying to plan the rebound. Planning on running test/Tren as per your recommendation as soon as. Im thinking whilst the esters build for the first four weeks ill just up cals to 2500 (currently on 1800). Once oils kick in ill increase from 2500 to 3000 for the rest of the cycle. Or would there be a better way to reverse the cals/timing with gear?
> 
> 2b)I can't get a hold of winstrol so planning on taking anadrol/dbol (unless you have a better idea), would you suggest a quick blast of the oral for 4 weeks towards the end to compliment the higher cals/esters kicking in or simply run the orals a tad lower dose and constant for the cycle? (due to gene expression as you mentioned).
> 
> 2c) Also have some GH to run. Would it be worth adding this in without slin?
> 
> 2ci) If I run solo, again should I blast 8-10iu to match higher blood plasma levels of gear / orals / calories or simply run for duration at 5iu similar to the orals?
> 
> 2cii) if you suggest only taking the GH with slin. Again would there be an optimized timing/dosages? Ie later towards the end of the cycle, gh/slin pre or post workout? All to be optimized for hypertrophy


 1- Yeah, non-meat sources are fine, especially dairy. The "incomplete amino" thing was overplayed back in the day. Pea protein has been shown to be as effective as whey protein in studies.

b- You won't find a lot of research on enhanced lifters because of legal/ethical barrier. There's a threshold to how much protein is needed, people overestimate how important protein is for muscle growth. The caloric surplus AND progressive overload are by far the most important factors. Extra protein is just wasted and excreted by the kidneys and makes them work overtime.

c-You can take my word for it or do what you think is best. I've had no issues getting extremely strong and muscular with that protein intake. Like i said protein intake < Surplus+progressive overload. Bulking on higher carb, mdoerate protein diet makes it much easier to eat a lot of calories vs high protein which is a nice bonus.

2- No need to micro manage this much, just up your cals to where you want them after the first pin. Focus your mental energy on your caloric intake and training, throw everything else out that's a distraction.

b-Lower dose / through the cycle will get you much better results. Running orals as kick starter or finisher for 2-4 weeks is a huge waste of potential. I also recommend superdrol but it can destroy appetite so you might need some willpower to get your calories in. The strength and mass gains are incredible though.

c-If you add GH, 3-5 IU daily is good without insulin. Better recovery and nutrient partitioning. Some people notice it's easier to stay lean when bulking on GH. On the higher end, water retention and sides go up, so i recommend 2-4 IU.

ci-If you go past 6 iu, i would add slin. High GH levels impair your natural insulin sensitivity, this is why they are so synergistic ( gh/slin)

cii-GH at night before bed, slin post-workout if training fasted, slin pre and post workout if eating before and after.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> How much actual lifting (in terms of load/intensity, not volume) is required to hang onto muscle when you're in a (say, 25%) deficit, out of interest?
> 
> Let's assume this test/deca/GH/var/BPC/TB500 stack has the potential to reduce my recovery time by 1/3rd (big assumption, but anyway), I'd only actually not be lifting for like 4 weeks... and then although starting light, would be lifting consistently thereafter, and after week 8ish would be at full capacity.
> 
> Could you cut for this 8ish weeks without losing substantial amounts of upper body muscle? Assume I will be using a doing literally anything that doesn't piss my shoulder off immediately post-operation (tricep rope pushdowns, grip stuff, squats, leg press, curls... multiple times per week + light LISS cardio).
> 
> Thanks for your insights.


 You want intensity as high as possible. If you bench 315 lbs for 8 reps, do a few sets of that once a week and you will keep your strength and muscle. You only need to hit a muscle group once a week to maintain mass and strength. You want intensity to be 90-100% because this sends the strongest signal to the body to preserve muscle mass.

I think you would be fine cutting for the 8 weeks because you have AAS/GH in there. Worst case scenario, you will most likely get it back once you go back to maintenance.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> 1 do you not believe in theory then that the body uses fat to fuel and operate as is suggested in keto.
> 
> I do understand the satiety thing. Carbs certain fill, bloat me. However, fat seems to be less bloat but longer satiety for me. Can miss meals no issue.
> 
> 3 nah, am not overweight. Am 80kg 44 and 177cm. Was probably 15% bf, but now 11/12%bf after losing 12lbs in 10days. But as I've just gone onto test p, TRT dose alot will be water I guess.
> 
> So refeed once per week, 10%over maintenance even though cutting.
> 
> Great, carby cheat meal! Sounds great


 1- The body does use fat for fuel. Carbs are the most efficient/powerful fuel. It's high octane and can support higher intensities of activity more efficiently. Fats can work well for low intensity like walking, etc. Keto can work good for satiety at higher body fat levels, but once you get lean, most people will find cravings and performance to be much worse. I'm talking about being strong, lean and muscular at single digit body fat. High carbs helps you do this by keeping leptin and glycogen levels as high as possible. Mike O hearn is a great example, he's extremely strong, extremely lean, year round. He loves high carb intake. I have the same experience with it and the science also supports it.

The refeed will help your cut, it will refill your glycogen tank and increase leptin which increases T3, satiety and metabolism. It's also nice to look forward to.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Would you say a good squat carries over well into sports? or are any additional benefits exaggerated and or overrated? let's say a 500lb 1RM.


 It can carry pretty well, as long as you have the technique and stamina to support it. For example, punching power has a strong technical component to it, if you know how to throw with power, getting strong on squats can increase that power but some powerlifter with no boxing or fighting experience won't hit hard just because he squats 500 lbs.

I've seen research showing it also enhances sprinting performance.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hi mate what's you view on omega 3 supplements, lots of reports of prostate cancer, ? Thanks


 It can be beneficial, just make sure it's not rancid/cheap fish oil and don't overdo it. I always recommend carlson's or nordic naturals. The prostate cancer thing has been debunked.


----------



## zariph

So many ppl do anavar or dbol for bulking cycle, but what are the pros of this instead of running anadrol or winny? Is it because it has milder sides?


----------



## Pancake'

Tricky said:


> Sports is such a wide question to ask. But picking a weight like 500lbs is irrelevant it's person dependant. My 200kg squat does not make me good at day football or American football as I don't train for them. Again it wouldn't carry well as you put it to MMA as I don't train any of those disciplines.


 Granted.

500lbs was just an example, ofc I understand point you make. for example some individuals they could only need a 3 plate squat to have an increased sprint or jump.

I wasn't specifically talking towards combat but just outright athletic performance in a sport endeavour. some coaches 'guru' make out a good squat to be magical in terms of what it can offer an athlete for their practice.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> So many ppl do anavar or dbol for bulking cycle, but what are the pros of this instead of running anadrol or winny? Is it because it has milder sides?


 Some people think water retention increases muscle and strength gains.

i don't agree with this, winstrol will build just as much if not more tissue than dbol. Water bloof just goes away once you drop the compound.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

i want laser hair removal on my back and shoulders. I don't have much, but am I wasting £3k if I am continuing to use GH and AAS at supraphysiological levels?

it certainly grows faster, but could it actually come back or resist the laser treatment somehow?

Thanks


----------



## Matt6210

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i want laser hair removal on my back and shoulders. I don't have much, but am I wasting £3k if I am continuing to use GH and AAS at supraphysiological levels?
> 
> it certainly grows faster, but could it actually come back or resist the laser treatment somehow?
> 
> Thanks


 Bro 3k expense or just use hair removal cream once or twice a week, takes ten mins...


----------



## adam28

Matt6210 said:


> Bro 3k expense or just use hair removal cream once or twice a week, takes ten mins...


 Don't use on your ball sack :lol:


----------



## Cypionate

Matt6210 said:


> Bro 3k expense or just use hair removal cream once or twice a week, takes ten mins...


 Or the missus with your beard trimmer :lol:


----------



## arbffgadm100

Matt6210 said:


> Bro 3k expense or just use hair removal cream once or twice a week, takes ten mins...


 I know mate but I cba anymore.


----------



## adam28

arbffgadm100 said:


> I know mate but I cba anymore.


 Is it a one off treatment? Or do you have to do a number of sessions? I'm guessing the latter ....


----------



## arbffgadm100

adam28 said:


> Is it a one off treatment? Or do you have to do a number of sessions? I'm guessing the latter ....


 8!!! Not looking forward to it!! Lol


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i want laser hair removal on my back and shoulders. I don't have much, but am I wasting £3k if I am continuing to use GH and AAS at supraphysiological levels?
> 
> it certainly grows faster, but could it actually come back or resist the laser treatment somehow?
> 
> Thanks


 Supposedly enough laser treatments makes it permanent. At worst, the hairs would grow back slow and lighter/thinner.


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> Is it a one off treatment? Or do you have to do a number of sessions? I'm guessing the latter ....


 Multiple sessions


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> It might be a GH peptide coming up as GH in the test.


 so igf should of been much higher (out of range) if it was legit gh? and used for over 2 months ?


----------



## SoberHans

Few more questions sorry.

Should I do cardio on a refeed day in your opinion?

If I reach a body fat level im happy with during my cycle what's best way calorie wise to transition to a lean bulk? For example should I adjust calories gradually or in one go?

I know you're a big fan of Winstrol and not so much tren. Do you think it's worth adding 50mg winny a day to my tren cutting cycle of 375mg tren ace a week and 250mg sustanon a week?

Once again I'm really grateful for your input


----------



## CHRIS GW

Do you believe Tren Hex is any different in terms of results/sides to Tren A/E?

I know the raw is more expensive and therefore most labs will just blag tren E as genuine parabolan. However, I have access to the genuine hex. I've heard some people say the results are better and sides are less...any experience?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Few more questions sorry.
> 
> Should I do cardio on a refeed day in your opinion?
> 
> If I reach a body fat level im happy with during my cycle what's best way calorie wise to transition to a lean bulk? For example should I adjust calories gradually or in one go?
> 
> I know you're a big fan of Winstrol and not so much tren. Do you think it's worth adding 50mg winny a day to my tren cutting cycle of 375mg tren ace a week and 250mg sustanon a week?
> 
> Once again I'm really grateful for your input


 I recommend doing a refeed on workout days as your body will be best primed to absorbed the extra energy and apply it to muscle building/recovery vs fat storage.

Lean bulk should be 200-400 calories. The lower end is best for slowly gaining muscle while staying as lean as possible. I recommend 250-300 myself.

Worth it in what way? You will look dryer and more vascular with the winstrol, it might preserve strength/mass better but only if you have very high levels of strength/mass.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> Do you believe Tren Hex is any different in terms of results/sides to Tren A/E?
> 
> I know the raw is more expensive and therefore most labs will just blag tren E as genuine parabolan. However, I have access to the genuine hex. I've heard some people say the results are better and sides are less...any experience?


 None whatsoever. It's 100% placebo bullshit.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> so igf should of been much higher (out of range) if it was legit gh? and used for over 2 months ?


 If you are saying your IGF is exactly the same, i would strongly suspect bunk GH. It might be a GH fractional peptide or something of that kind so it's popping up as GH.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I recommend doing a refeed on workout days as your body will be best primed to absorbed the extra energy and apply it to muscle building/recovery vs fat storage.
> 
> Lean bulk should be 200-400 calories. The lower end is best for slowly gaining muscle while staying as lean as possible. I recommend 250-300 myself.
> 
> Worth it in what way? You will look dryer and more vascular with the winstrol, it might preserve strength/mass better but only if you have very high levels of strength/mass.


 Brilliant thanks for the help


----------



## TrenBalonie

@El Chapo

Do you think that lean bulking using Harris-Benedict formula and adding a 10% to TDEE can be good?

What can be a good way to calculate a minimum effective dose for AAS considering our weight? I.E. 15-18mg*our weight in kg.

It's hard considered that some AAS are pretty mild vs others...


----------



## darren.1987

during a bulk is there a limit to how many simple carbs sugars ie dextrose/maltodextrin should be consumed per day? is it per kg or lb of bodyweight recommendation?

I'm using cream of rice as it digests quickly and white rice/ potatoes as carb sources are there any other you can recommend that don't take long to digest?

I use oats along with healthy fats/protein before bed but not during the day as it can bloat me or make me feel full for a longer time.


----------



## pma111

How big a risk factor is *Homocysteine in heart disease. It doesnt seem to get as much discussion as other risk factors like inflammation and ldl. Is TMG worthwhile for keeping it in range.*


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-Does strength gains on orals easy to keep ? what are the best orals for strength for u ?

-Does anavar visceral fat burn overrated ?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> How big a risk factor is *Homocysteine in heart disease. It doesnt seem to get as much discussion as other risk factors like inflammation and ldl. Is TMG worthwhile for keeping it in range.*


 It's A risk factor, but the biggest ones are sedentary lifestyle and obesity.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Do you think that lean bulking using Harris-Benedict formula and adding a 10% to TDEE can be good?
> 
> What can be a good way to calculate a minimum effective dose for AAS considering our weight? I.E. 15-18mg*our weight in kg.
> 
> It's hard considered that some AAS are pretty mild vs others...


 No, bodybuilders and athletes, especially leans one who knows their body fat should use Katch-McArdle or Cunningham formula.

If bulking you want to underestimate your calories, when cutting overestimate them. Track if you are gaining/losing to much or too little weight and adjust accordingly.

AAS dose doesn't correlate that well with weight. Just stick a stack and dose and increase over time as your experience and goals expand.

You can use this collection of TDEE calculators to see what each formula gives you : *https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/*


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> during a bulk is there a limit to how many simple carbs sugars ie dextrose/maltodextrin should be consumed per day? is it per kg or lb of bodyweight recommendation?
> 
> I'm using cream of rice as it digests quickly and white rice/ potatoes as carb sources are there any other you can recommend that don't take long to digest?
> 
> I use oats along with healthy fats/protein before bed but not during the day as it can bloat me or make me feel full for a longer time.


 It's optimal to get more carbs from starches than from fibrous or sugary carbs but it's not something to obsess over. Starches are best for muscle glycogen repletion and increasing metabolism. Technically, the liver can only store so much fructose in the liver before it converts to fat but as long your surplus isn't huge, it's not going to matter anyways.

The ones you mentioned are some of my favorite carbs, but i also love breakfast cereals like reese's puffs, chocolate chex, frosted flakes, etc. They have a lot of starch but a bit of sugar for a nice insulin spike, and with skim milk, a very favorable macro nutrient ratio.

Carbs before bed promote relaxation and better sleep by activating the parasympathetic nervous system and increasing serotonin and tryptophan in the brain, so it's a good idea for a lot of people.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo any specific reason you get painful lower back & shin pumps using dianabol? Considering I get much better pumps in general from trenbolone what is the reasoning dbol causes such uncomfortable pumps, yet winstrol/Tren/dhb etc don't?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo any specific reason you get painful lower back & shin pumps using dianabol? Considering I get much better pumps in general from trenbolone what is the reasoning dbol causes such uncomfortable pumps, yet winstrol/Tren/dhb etc don't?


 I dont know but i experience the pumps on tren too. I suspect it has to do with muscle oxygen consumption or nitrogen levels.

AAS makes the muscle use up a lot more oxygen so they fatigue faster, back pumps feel similar to lactic acid/muscle fatigue so i suspect its something like that.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-Does strength gains on orals easy to keep ? what are the best orals for strength for u ?

-Does anavar visceral fat burn overrated ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -Does strength gains on orals easy to keep ? what are the best orals for strength for u ?
> 
> -Does anavar visceral fat burn overrated ?


 Keeping strength has nothing to do with what you take but what you do.

Winstrol and superdrol are the best for me, some people like other stuff.

Yeah, burning fat has to do with caloric deficit. Tren and var don't burn fat.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> It's optimal to get more carbs from starches than from fibrous or sugary carbs but it's not something to obsess over. Starches are best for muscle glycogen repletion and increasing metabolism. Technically, the liver can only store so much fructose in the liver before it converts to fat but as long your surplus isn't huge, it's not going to matter anyways.
> 
> The ones you mentioned are some of my favorite carbs, but i also love breakfast cereals like reese's puffs, chocolate chex, frosted flakes, etc. They have a lot of starch but a bit of sugar for a nice insulin spike, and with skim milk, a very favorable macro nutrient ratio.
> 
> Carbs before bed promote relaxation and better sleep by activating the parasympathetic nervous system and increasing serotonin and tryptophan in the brain, so it's a good idea for a lot of people.


 so there is no need to worry about how many grams of cereal your eating say 200g per day of frosted flakes or Reese puffs as they are very easy to consume a lot of?

and does it matter when you eat them of there is more sugar content or is the post workout sugar spike irrelevant as all carbs spike insulin?

I'm going for 700+g of carbs per day or more when I start.. not overly concerned just thought it's best to see if certain carbs are better in a sense.

I can eat cream of rice say 150-200g which is 120g or 160g of carbs(not including skimmed milk) and only 3 or 5g of fat in a serving.. then eat again 1 hour later

thanks for the advice


----------



## Redsy

Going to do a cycle of test p, winny. I'll be having a few drinks on one occasion whilst taking winny. 3/4 pints. Obviously, remainder of time I won't be drinking

To play safe whats best. Stop winny 2 days prior to drinking? Shorter or longer.

Leave a day after the drinks to resume?


----------



## adam28

@ElChapo

Does Winstrol still affect your hairline even if you don't suffer from MPB? Im thinking of adding it to my cut in the run up to summer.

I've used proviron and that doesn't make my hair come out so am I likely to be ok with Winstrol?

What's the lowest dose per day you would recommend?

Thankyou mate


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> No, bodybuilders and athletes, especially leans one who knows their body fat should use Katch-McArdle or Cunningham formula.
> 
> If bulking you want to underestimate your calories, when cutting overestimate them. Track if you are gaining/losing to much or too little weight and adjust accordingly.
> 
> AAS dose doesn't correlate that well with weight. Just stick a stack and dose and increase over time as your experience and goals expand.
> 
> You can use this collection of TDEE calculators to see what each formula gives you : *https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/*


 Katch-McArdle - absolute solid and reliable research source there, Sir :thumbup1:


----------



## TrenBalonie

ElChapo said:


> No, bodybuilders and athletes, especially leans one who knows their body fat should use Katch-McArdle or Cunningham formula.
> 
> If bulking you want to underestimate your calories, when cutting overestimate them. Track if you are gaining/losing to much or too little weight and adjust accordingly.
> 
> AAS dose doesn't correlate that well with weight. Just stick a stack and dose and increase over time as your experience and goals expand.
> 
> You can use this collection of TDEE calculators to see what each formula gives you : *https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/*


 I tried those and with Katch-McArdle equation I have higher TDEE than on Harris Benedict.

Maybe Harris Benedict underestimates...


----------



## SoberHans

Good morning, hope everyone's having a good weekend.

Just wondered, ElChapo, which people associated within the fitness industry, for anything to do with diet, anabolics or just training you admire and are worth listening too?

Also out of interest is there anyone you think is totally full of sh1t?

Thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Good morning, hope everyone's having a good weekend.
> 
> Just wondered, ElChapo, which people associated within the fitness industry, for anything to do with diet, anabolics or just training you admire and are worth listening too?
> 
> Also out of interest is there anyone you think is totally full of sh1t?
> 
> Thanks again.


 I highly recommend Lyle McDonald's site bodyrecomposition.com

For fitness celeb, i like and respect Mike O'Hearn, he's very strong with a lean, proportionate physique he maintains year round, 7% bodyfat or so. He's also a big proponent of high carbs and getting strong to help increase mass or "power bodybuilding" which i agree with.

The guy is also 50 years old which is a big inspiration for staying healthy, lean and fit as you get older.

Most are full of s**t.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> I tried those and with Katch-McArdle equation I have higher TDEE than on Harris Benedict.
> 
> Maybe Harris Benedict underestimates...


 Katch-Mc/cunningham calculates muscle in the equation. The others do not.

Muscle accounts the highest for the variation in TDEE besides activity levels.

Athletes and bodybuilders get more accurate results when you calculate the metabolic rate of their muscle.

It's important to pick the right activity multiplier but also adjust as you go, when used right, Katch-McArdle is extremely accurate for most people.


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Does Winstrol still affect your hairline even if you don't suffer from MPB? Im thinking of adding it to my cut in the run up to summer.
> 
> I've used proviron and that doesn't make my hair come out so am I likely to be ok with Winstrol?
> 
> What's the lowest dose per day you would recommend?
> 
> Thankyou mate


 I have seen hair thin and grow back on people who don't have MPB or early onset. Win and mast has thinned my temples a bit but it comes back. It doesn't happen to everyone.

For muscle building and strength, 50 mg daily oral or 150 mg per week injectable.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Going to do a cycle of test p, winny. I'll be having a few drinks on one occasion whilst taking winny. 3/4 pints. Obviously, remainder of time I won't be drinking
> 
> To play safe whats best. Stop winny 2 days prior to drinking? Shorter or longer.
> 
> Leave a day after the drinks to resume?


 You'll be fine, but skip 48 hours prior and 24 hours after to be safe.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> so there is no need to worry about how many grams of cereal your eating say 200g per day of frosted flakes or Reese puffs as they are very easy to consume a lot of?
> 
> and does it matter when you eat them of there is more sugar content or is the post workout sugar spike irrelevant as all carbs spike insulin?
> 
> I'm going for 700+g of carbs per day or more when I start.. not overly concerned just thought it's best to see if certain carbs are better in a sense.
> 
> I can eat cream of rice say 150-200g which is 120g or 160g of carbs(not including skimmed milk) and only 3 or 5g of fat in a serving.. then eat again 1 hour later
> 
> thanks for the advice


 Exactly, i've found no easier carb and calorie to consume than cereal with skim milk. I love how it tastes and its got a lot of carbs and calories. The milk adds protein as well.

It's irrelevant, the best time is post workout (feeding window/insulin spike) and close to bedtime(better rest and sleep secondary to serotonin release).

Cream of wheat and rice are very good choices too, i love them with some spices like cinnamon, nutmeg, vanilla, etc.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

do you advise eating a meal with a lot of carbs after a training ?
I'm on a cut atm and I only take a protein shake + a banana after the workout .

I only have 2 big meals / day , at 1pm and 8pm


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> do you advise eating a meal with a lot of carbs after a training ?
> I'm on a cut atm and I only take a protein shake + a banana after the workout .
> 
> I only have 2 big meals / day , at 1pm and 8pm


 Protein shake and banana is a good post workout meal. The meal timing isnt super important, just get some protein after your workout.

If you will be eating a lot of carbs, its good to have them post workout as your muscles will be primed to suck them up. After training, your cells are more sensitive to insulin, so they absorb nutrients and energy better.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I highly recommend Lyle McDonald's site bodyrecomposition.com
> 
> For fitness celeb, i like and respect Mike O'Hearn, he's very strong with a lean, proportionate physique he maintains year round, 7% bodyfat or so. He's also a big proponent of high carbs and getting strong to help increase mass or "power bodybuilding" which i agree with.
> 
> The guy is also 50 years old which is a big inspiration for staying healthy, lean and fit as you get older.
> 
> Most are full of s**t.


 Brilliant thanks.

Yeah O'Hearn is in amazing shape and seems like a top guy too


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Brilliant thanks.
> 
> Yeah O'Hearn is in amazing shape and seems like a top guy too


 Yeah, he's got his s**t together for sure.


----------



## IGF

Will there be any harm in not pinning test prop for 5 days. I'm going out of town so will be have my last pin Sunday and will be able to pin again the following Saturday. Or is there a better course of action?


----------



## pma111

Any recommendations for arthritis?

Are curcumin/pine bark better natural anti inflammatories then omega 3?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Any recommendations for arthritis?
> 
> Are curcumin/pine bark better natural anti inflammatories then omega 3?


 Pine bark is more of an anti-oxidant and pro-circulation supplement. Curcumin is more the anti-inflammatory. Curcumin and omega-3 would be a good stack.


----------



## pma111

Thanks

I assume those 2 are your best bet for allergies/intolerances too. E.g hayfever,or someone with a gluten intolerance who accidentally consumes gluten.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Thanks
> 
> I assume those 2 are your best bet for allergies/intolerances too. E.g hayfever,or someone with a gluten intolerance who accidentally consumes gluten.


 They can't hurt, curcumin is great for gut inflammation if you take it without piperine in it's basic form.


----------



## Devil

B and c for 2.5 years.

Blast never more than 500mg ish (200 test 400 tren etc) and cruise 150mg pw.

Im coming to the end of a 4 month cruis, whereby at the time, gym took a back seat to work and study and social life.

Way fluffier now, and need a solid cut to get down to reach my aesthetics again.

However my desire for pushing even those "small" blasts is next to nil, albeit I want to get back to where I was last summer etc.

Long story short, in your opinion, which is the lesser of two evils to go alongside 200mg test for 4-6 months. 200mg tren E, or the use of say 50mcg t3 and ECA daily.

(200mg tren vs stim approach).

Im not too high bf and do cardio 4x a week regularly, bloods are all in range (albeit very low).

In terms of sides, I get none. Tren, none except night sweats and feeling awesome, and nothing from any stims except rHr goes up to about 65 from 55.

I'm thinking health and longevity etc etc

thanks as always

@ElChapo


----------



## adam28

Hi mate

Adex affects how Nolva works making it abit less effective to a certain degree. So if you were on Adex would you be better off using 40mg of nolva instead of the usual 20mg ?

I know Aromasin doesn't affect nolva, but I'm asking this if you only have Adex to use

Thank You


----------



## Endomorph84

Hi mate,

I am going to win a body building show, maybe the later end of this year - It'll be my first show.

Can you recommend any sources where I can research (books, websites etc) contest prep and how to peak for a competition please mate?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> B and c for 2.5 years.
> 
> Blast never more than 500mg ish (200 test 400 tren etc) and cruise 150mg pw.
> 
> Im coming to the end of a 4 month cruis, whereby at the time, gym took a back seat to work and study and social life.
> 
> Way fluffier now, and need a solid cut to get down to reach my aesthetics again.
> 
> However my desire for pushing even those "small" blasts is next to nil, albeit I want to get back to where I was last summer etc.
> 
> Long story short, in your opinion, which is the lesser of two evils to go alongside 200mg test for 4-6 months. 200mg tren E, or the use of say 50mcg t3 and ECA daily.
> 
> (200mg tren vs stim approach).
> 
> Im not too high bf and do cardio 4x a week regularly, bloods are all in range (albeit very low).
> 
> In terms of sides, I get none. Tren, none except night sweats and feeling awesome, and nothing from any stims except rHr goes up to about 65 from 55.
> 
> I'm thinking health and longevity etc etc
> 
> thanks as always
> 
> @ElChapo


 If you're try to lose fat, ECA stack/T3 is going to be more effective than tren. Tren does not directly burn fat. Stims do.

You might want to bump the total AAS level to 300 mg to get a better muscle preservation effect. 150/150 test/tren or 300 mg test solo is a good stack.


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> Hi mate
> 
> Adex affects how Nolva works making it abit less effective to a certain degree. So if you were on Adex would you be better off using 40mg of nolva instead of the usual 20mg ?
> 
> I know Aromasin doesn't affect nolva, but I'm asking this if you only have Adex to use
> 
> Thank You


 It's not significant enough to impair what it does, so don't worry about it.

Aromasin and nolva seem to have an additive or synergistic effect according to one study, but regardless, if it's for reversing gyno, just run the nolva 6-12 weeks, adex or no it will work most of the time.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> I am going to win a body building show, maybe the later end of this year - It'll be my first show.
> 
> Can you recommend any sources where I can research (books, websites etc) contest prep and how to peak for a competition please mate?


 It's not my field, @ghost.recon's field. He's coached, prepped, etc people for shows.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> It's not my field, @ghost.recon's field. He's coached, prepped, etc people for shows.


 Ok, cheers anyway.

@ghost.recon can you recommend any sources where I can research (books, websites etc) contest prep and how to peak for a competition please mate? Thanks.


----------



## Alibab2001

Endomorph84 said:


> Ok, cheers anyway.
> 
> @ghost.recon can you recommend any sources where I can research (books, websites etc) contest prep and how to peak for a competition please mate? Thanks.


 The best advice you can get for getting in shape for your first show would be....hire a coach.

With the stress of prep, especially the 1st time, its better to hand over 'responsibility' for getting you ready to a good coach.

good luck with the show


----------



## Endomorph84

Alibab2001 said:


> The best advice you can get for getting in shape for your first show would be....hire a coach.
> 
> With the stress of prep, especially the 1st time, its better to hand over 'responsibility' for getting you ready to a good coach.
> 
> good luck with the show


 Cheers mate, that's good advice and is something I will do nearer the time once I have chosen the show to win, I have a coach in mind.

I was jus after some info in the interim so I can read up and read up some more. Do you have any?


----------



## darren.1987

doing blood test to check test and estrogen prolactin etc

does it matter if blood is drawn via vein or finger-pri.ck for the test?

supposedly results can be inaccurate if not drawn from vein..


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> doing blood test to check test and estrogen prolactin etc
> 
> does it matter if blood is drawn via vein or finger-pri.ck for the test?
> 
> supposedly results can be inaccurate if not drawn from vein..


 It's usually the same.


----------



## SoberHans

I'm worried about getting my maintainence calories wrong when I finish my cut and start to lean bulk.

Not sure what activity level to put in the calculator as I'm going to eat around 300 calories above maintainence as you recommended so want to get my figures right.

I have an office job but walk to work and back, do between 10-12,000 steps a day and train heavy weights five times a week.

In your opinion would that make me slightly active, active or very active?

Really appreciate your opinion, thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> I'm worried about getting my maintainence calories wrong when I finish my cut and start to lean bulk.
> 
> Not sure what activity level to put in the calculator as I'm going to eat around 300 calories above maintainence as you recommended so want to get my figures right.
> 
> I have an office job but walk to work and back, do between 10-12,000 steps a day and train heavy weights five times a week.
> 
> In your opinion would that make me slightly active, active or very active?
> 
> Really appreciate your opinion, thanks.


 Use lightly active to start with, if you gain too much or too little, adjust by 250 calories up or down.

Use katch-McArdle formula for best results. Note that if you are under 10% body fat your metabolism/TDEE can take a hit by as much as 500 calories daily.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> If you're try to lose fat, ECA stack/T3 is going to be more effective than tren. Tren does not directly burn fat. Stims do.
> 
> You might want to bump the total AAS level to 300 mg to get a better muscle preservation effect. 150/150 test/tren or 300 mg test solo is a good stack.


 Thanks mate.

What are your thoughts on the use o AAS and reduced life expectancy?

im aware that trt in elder makes with low T can improve life quality and expectancy.

But studies and eveidnce showing abuse can be really detrimental (especially to the heart), are putting me off. ESP the use of tren.

(as I say, concern for me o 3 year b and c with no idea to come off soon).

Makes me want to just run 200mg test year around.

(I know this is a rat study), but abuse here reduced life expectancy massively?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9140897/

Interested in your thoughts if you have time


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo I'm estrogen sensitive/ high aromitizer would 1.25 mg letro eod be overkill for 150-200mg test per week?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the use o AAS and reduced life expectancy?
> 
> im aware that trt in elder makes with low T can improve life quality and expectancy.
> 
> But studies and eveidnce showing abuse can be really detrimental (especially to the heart), are putting me off. ESP the use of tren.
> 
> (as I say, concern for me o 3 year b and c with no idea to come off soon).
> 
> Makes me want to just run 200mg test year around.
> 
> (I know this is a rat study), but abuse here reduced life expectancy massively?
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9140897/
> 
> Interested in your thoughts if you have time


 Abuse can definitely be detrimental.

It depends on your genetics, how much you use, and lifestyle. Sly Stallone and Arnold are fairly healthy for their ages and they had a lifetime of AAS use.

Optimal testosterone protects the hearts and improves health, as long as E2, HCT and BP aren't out of range.

Ideally you build your dream physique and maintain that on 200-300 mg test forever, keep up your cardio routine, stay lean year round and make sure blood work is perfect, then pray to god you got some good genes or at least average ones.

Being a mass monster or freak for decades is going to put a massive strain on all your major organs and doing it past 50 is pushing it in my opinion. Charles Poliquin died pretty young from cardiovascular complications i would assume. Dallas McCarver too, but you just never know.

You can be very aesthetic and big without abusing AAS. It can take some abuse to get there, but maintenance is much easier than building and a little cardio goes a long way.

Btw, in that mice study they did use some orals and the doses must have been insane to induce liver tumours so this doesn't apply to humans.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo I'm estrogen sensitive/ high aromitizer would 1.25 mg letro eod be overkill for 150-200mg test per week?


 Try 1.25 mg or 2.5 mg PER WEEK to start. You can split to twice a week.

There's a study in obese human males NOT taking any AAS, 2.5 mg PER week letrozole/femara dropped E2 by 50%.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Try 1.25 mg or 2.5 mg PER WEEK to start. You can split to twice a week.
> 
> There's a study in obese human males NOT taking any AAS, 2.5 mg PER week letrozole/femara dropped E2 by 50%.


 Ok thanks. One more thing - what is dhb like for hair loss? I was planning on running npp with low dose test (alongside my finasteride and nizoral).


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Ok thanks. One more thing - what is dhb like for hair loss? I was planning on running npp with low dose test (alongside my finasteride and nizoral).


 It doesn't appear to be any worse than other AAS. I suggest running 2% nizoral shampoo 2-7 times per week. Leave in hair 5 minutes and rinse. It's a good way to slow down hair loss/thinning.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> It doesn't appear to be any worse than other AAS. I suggest running 2% nizoral shampoo 2-7 times per week. Leave in hair 5 minutes and rinse. It's a good way to slow down hair loss/thinning.


 I use nizoral as my daily now since you recommended it. If you had to choose between npp and dhb for the best bet to avoid too much hair loss, which would you choose?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> I use nizoral as my daily now since you recommended it. If you had to choose between npp and dhb for the best bet to avoid too much hair loss, which would you choose?


 Probably NPP, it's progestin effect might further mitigate the androgenic effect on hair.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo just jabbed my glute with npp and got that horrible tren cough and tight chest for about 10-15 mins. Does this mean i actually jabbed into a vein and is this something to worry about?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think about anadrol pre workout ? I'm training for strength mainly

I'd love to try it but I've got small gyno and I'm gyno prone .

And Tbol is worth it ? I used it once and had no effect at all tbh but maybe I wasn't taking enough (60mg)


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo just jabbed my glute with npp and got that horrible tren cough and tight chest for about 10-15 mins. Does this mean i actually jabbed into a vein and is this something to worry about?


 No, it's just a little oil getting into your blood stream or "oil embolism". It's harmless.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about anadrol pre workout ? I'm training for strength mainly
> 
> I'd love to try it but I've got small gyno and I'm gyno prone .
> 
> And Tbol is worth it ? I used it once and had no effect at all tbh but maybe I wasn't taking enough (60mg)


 My go to orals for strength and mass are sdrol and winstrol.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> My go to orals for strength and mass are sdrol and winstrol.


 assuming a test base of 500mg per week, would you run sdrol at 20 or 40mg and for how long? The stories on the net suggest it's the worst thing on the planet for negative sides and making you feel like s**t, is this exaggerated?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> assuming a test base of 500mg per week, would you run sdrol at 20 or 40mg and for how long? The stories on the net suggest it's the worst thing on the planet for negative sides and making you feel like s**t, is this exaggerated?


 Everything has a price. Appetite reduction and lethargy, that's it really.

20-40 mg daily, 12 weeks + 600 mg test is a nice stack. You can run with TUDCA and NAC for extra insurance.

160 mg per week sdrol injectable is also very effective.


----------



## stewedw

I run strom support max which has, amongst other things, 1000nac and 250 tudca per daily serving which on cycle Monday to Sunday, and since its relatively cheap a half dose daily Monday to Friday the rest of the time. (only started this in December but it appears to help my digestion even though that's not the point of it)

https://www.stromsports.com/products/strom-presents-supportmax-preorder-only-due-october


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo been blasting and cruising without hcg for a couple years now (majority of the time very low doses, mainly test). I'm planning on starting hcg 1000iu per week for however long i stay on for fertility reasons. Do you think i should do higher doses of the hcg to start with and then drop back down to 1000iu per week? I want to try and get my balls back working without coming off the gear.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo been blasting and cruising without hcg for a couple years now (majority of the time very low doses, mainly test). I'm planning on starting hcg 1000iu per week for however long i stay on for fertility reasons. Do you think i should do higher doses of the hcg to start with and then drop back down to 1000iu per week? I want to try and get my balls back working without coming off the gear.


 Just run 1,000-1,500 per week from the start. I would even do 1,500 per week.


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo any specific difference in terms of health benefits (heart/arteries) between UGL cialis (pressed tablets) & pharma eg tadalafil? I'm aware dosing is likely to be more spot on with pharma.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> @ElChapo any specific difference in terms of health benefits (heart/arteries) between UGL cialis (pressed tablets) & pharma eg tadalafil? I'm aware dosing is likely to be more spot on with pharma.


 That depends on the UGL's raws and dosing accuracy. Indian pharma and pharma are usually pretty equal.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Im starting my hcg next week along with test e 300 and mast e 400 split in 2 jabs a week (150 and 200mg) im doing the hcg subq 500iu twice a week, is it ok to do the hcg the same time as the test e and mast was thinking of doing the test and mast IM then do the hcg straight after subq every mon/Thursday along with adex 0.25 after jabs or would you recommend doing the hcg a separate day?

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Im starting my hcg next week along with test e 300 and mast e 400 split in 2 jabs a week (150 and 200mg) im doing the hcg subq 500iu twice a week, is it ok to do the hcg the same time as the test e and mast was thinking of doing the test and mast IM then do the hcg straight after subq every mon/Thursday along with adex 0.25 after jabs or would you recommend doing the hcg a separate day?
> 
> Many thanks


 You can mix HCG into the same syringe and inject together with the oil. It doesn't matter when you take it.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

I have previously been on a 4 month GH peptide cycle and im now currently on my 7th month. Injecting 5x daily.

Today i randomly noticed that my dick in flaccid seems to have gotten 20% bigger. There is even 5 weird brown lines on the top of the skin which could look like stretch marks.

Is this even possible or am i crazy and imagining things?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> You can mix HCG into the same syringe and inject together with the oil. It doesn't matter when you take it.


 Thank you mate!


----------



## SoberHans

Finishing my cut on Wednesday mid cycle on tren and test, then planning on lean bulking.

Is reverse dieting necessary or can I up my calories all at once?

Thanks again


----------



## shay1490

Hi sir

ive been off cycle for 3 months or so , lost a lot of gains due to injuries, lack of training and just motivation in general. In the meantime, i think i've developed some gyno, some days nipples are puffy and sensitive and other days they're tiny. I had a few arimidex pills left so I took them for about a week, 1mg eod, not sure if it's done anything.

I will be going on cycle of test e 750mg a week, would it be advisable to take 20mg nolvadex during the cycle?

Ive only taken nolva after a cycle where i had similar symptoms and it did seem to work.

thanks


----------



## bornagod

arbffgadm100 said:


> 8!!! Not looking forward to it!! Lol


 Im sure @Frandeman has laser hair removal.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I have previously been on a 4 month GH peptide cycle and im now currently on my 7th month. Injecting 5x daily.
> 
> Today i randomly noticed that my dick in flaccid seems to have gotten 20% bigger. There is even 5 weird brown lines on the top of the skin which could look like stretch marks.
> 
> Is this even possible or am i crazy and imagining things?


 Could be better circulation (most likely)

You can get the same effect from cialis.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Finishing my cut on Wednesday mid cycle on tren and test, then planning on lean bulking.
> 
> Is reverse dieting necessary or can I up my calories all at once?
> 
> Thanks again


 You can go straight to your calories, reverse dieting is vastly overrated.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> Hi sir
> 
> ive been off cycle for 3 months or so , lost a lot of gains due to injuries, lack of training and just motivation in general. In the meantime, i think i've developed some gyno, some days nipples are puffy and sensitive and other days they're tiny. I had a few arimidex pills left so I took them for about a week, 1mg eod, not sure if it's done anything.
> 
> I will be going on cycle of test e 750mg a week, would it be advisable to take 20mg nolvadex during the cycle?
> 
> Ive only taken nolva after a cycle where i had similar symptoms and it did seem to work.
> 
> thanks


 Arimidex does not reverse gyno, only Nolvadex/raloxifene does.

You can take nolvadex to stop it from getting worse and if you're lucky it might reverse it while you are on cycle. This is more likely to happen if you control your E2 with an AI while you take the test and nolvadex.


----------



## Frandeman

bornagod said:


> Im sure @Frandeman has laser hair removal.


 No worthy for me

Still grows too fu**ing much


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> You can go straight to your calories, reverse dieting is vastly overrated.


 Brilliant thanks, was worried incase my metabolism was slowed down due to dieting I might gain fat


----------



## bornagod

Frandeman said:


> No worthy for me
> 
> Still grows too fu**ing much


 Be no good for me then, as im border line ape with the amount of hair growth i got going on at the moment :lol:


----------



## pma111

What kind of hormonal issues or diseases affect circulation positively or negatively. When I tested low E2 a while ago it felt like it negatively impacted circulation. Wondered if possible and other causes.pro/anti circulation.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What kind of hormonal issues or diseases affect circulation positively or negatively. When I tested low E2 a while ago it felt like it negatively impacted circulation. Wondered if possible and other causes.pro/anti circulation.


 Yes, high and low E2 are both bad for the cardiovascular system. Low E2 is very bad for the lining of the arteries, high E2 increases blood clotting risk, risk of stroke, and heart attack. So they both have a negative impact through different mechanisms.

Hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism: Hypo leads to stiffer arteries and reduced circulation, higher risk of calcification in the arteries. Hyperthyroid increases risk of heart attack.

Hypogonadism/hypergonadism: Too little testosterone is a risk factor for heart disease, testosterone that is too high increases risk of heart disease, partially through high E2.

Very high GH: Acromegalic myopathy: biventricular hypertrophy, diastolic dysfunction, and in later stages, systolic dysfunction and congestive heart failure.


----------



## pma111

Cheers. I presume cialis and pine bark have a good effect on circulation, bar those and cardio,any other supplements to boost circulation youd recommend.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Yes, high and low E2 are both bad for the cardiovascular system. Low E2 is very bad for the lining of the arteries, high E2 increases blood clotting risk, risk of stroke, and heart attack. So they both have a negative impact through different mechanisms.
> 
> Hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism: Hypo leads to stiffer arteries and reduced circulation, higher risk of calcification in the arteries. Hyperthyroid increases risk of heart attack.
> 
> Hypogonadism/hypergonadism: Too little testosterone is a risk factor for heart disease, testosterone that is too high increases risk of heart disease, partially through high E2.
> 
> Very high GH: Acromgealic myopathy: biventricular hypertrophy, diastolic dysfunction, and in later stages, systolic dysfunction and congestive heart failure.


 Can you ever have like a normal balance were your not exactly at risk of something? lol. sometimes I think you just cannot win, whatever you try to do in regards to maximising health.

If your bloodwork and lipids are trash post cycle, would it only be of real concern if they was persistently crap over a long time period? should one not be too worried immediately post cycle of trashy lipids.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Cheers. I presume cialis and pine bark have a good effect on circulation, bar those and cardio,any other supplements to boost circulation youd recommend.


 *Cialis/pine bark/Cardio would be the trifecta.*


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Can you ever have like a normal balance were your not exactly at risk of something? lol. sometimes I think you just cannot win, whatever you try to do in regards to maximising health.
> 
> If your bloodwork and lipids are trash post cycle, would it only be of real concern if they was persistently crap over a long time period? should one not be too worried immediately post cycle of trashy lipids.


 There's always a price to anything in life. It's part of the game.

By doing cardio consistently, you will have the biggest protection from most diseases. Always do cardio and never stop.

Bad lipids short term are not a problem. It takes a long time for bad lipids and high blood pressure to damage your cardiovascular system.


----------



## adam28

Hi mate.

Would 125mg of test every 5 days and 50mg of Winstrol per day be enough to not lose muscle for a fairly aggressive cut? Would you expect the libido to take a hit ? Never used Winstrol so not sure of its affects on libido

Cheers


----------



## Will2309

@ElChapo

Been to the docs about bp meds, asked about metoprolol at your recommendation but they don't do that med in our area they use bisoprolol instead. I understand it's a beta blocker still and as my pulse is between 60 - 65 beats the doc was concerned that it might lower my pulse to much.

Are you familiar with this med. ????

He has put me on 5mg a day.

Cheers


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Hi buddy

Would you mind casting your eye over my latest bloods? (Below/attached.)

I have some questions:

_I would like to preface all of these questions with: I do regular cardio--both BJJ (HIIT) and LISS. I lift. I make progress. My sleep (7-9hrs) and diet (80% clean 20% whatever) are pretty damn good already. I supplement with all the normal things (fish oil, Fit D3, blah blah) and about a million other things (cialis, curcumin, boswella, resveratrol, citrus bergamot, glutathione, beetroot, garlic, blah blah--literally about 20 things). I normally TRT on 150mg test and no AI, but this time decided to cruise on 200mg test enanthate and 25mg aromasin weekly, a nd have done so for 4 months now, and nothing else. I want to do a blast but I had expected this set of bloods to come back absolutely squeaky clean perfect. They are undoubtedly better than most people's, but I have a few questions anyway..._



I am consistently giving blood every 3 months. RBC and HCT go down pretty well when I give blood, but my haemoglobin does not go down by much. Is there something I can do to change this, so they all go down proportionately?


How dangerous is it to be a couple points over the normal range for haemoglobin for most of the year? Should I get this under "control" before considering blasting again?


MCHC has never been out of range in over 5 years of getting bloods. I can't find anything on the web about reducing it or if it being a couple of points over is anything to concern myself with. Any ideas?


I use a lot of creatine (10g/day). I assume this is why my creatinine is slightly high? I made sure not to train, use creatine or eat excessive protein in the 3 days before this test. (Something I don't normally do, but I thought I would try this time).


I don't get how (I was well hydrated) my eGFR (white, 35 years old, male, nearly-normal creatinine level, very healthy/active) is 66 in a range of 60-250! It's been below 90 for about a year now, although it hasn't declined during this time, the medichecks tests didn't;t used to have this eGFR on, so I have no data going further back. Is this something to worry about?


My triglycerides are slightly above normal. I have been consuming less carbs lately and a bit more fat (mostly from nuts, good oils, and meat/fish). Is this level anything to worry about? It's never been out of range before.


My HDL seems very healthy to me, but I wonder what I can do to get it even higher, if anything?


Many, many thanks in advance.

@swole troll in case you're interested, mate.

View attachment Cropped.pdf


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> Hi mate.
> 
> Would 125mg of test every 5 days and 50mg of Winstrol per day be enough to not lose muscle for a fairly aggressive cut? Would you expect the libido to take a hit ? Never used Winstrol so not sure of its affects on libido
> 
> Cheers


 I would say yes. How aggressive/how long is the cut and how much muscle are you carrying? I would prefer 150-200 mg test but the winstrol should do the job.

Winstrol usually doesn't affect or increases libido. Some people get stronger erections from it too. It's fairly neutral when it comes to sexual side effects. Most common sides are joint/muscle stiffness.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Been to the docs about bp meds, asked about metoprolol at your recommendation but they don't do that med in our area they use bisoprolol instead. I understand it's a beta blocker still and as my pulse is between 60 - 65 beats the doc was concerned that it might lower my pulse to much.
> 
> Are you familiar with this med. ????
> 
> He has put me on 5mg a day.
> 
> Cheers


 What's your average BP reading through out the day?

Yes, it's a beta blocker like metoprolol so it's similar.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi buddy
> 
> Would you mind casting your eye over my latest bloods? (Below/attached.)
> 
> I have some questions:
> 
> _I would like to preface all of these questions with: I do regular cardio--both BJJ (HIIT) and LISS. I lift. I make progress. My sleep (7-9hrs) and diet (80% clean 20% whatever) are pretty damn good already. I supplement with all the normal things (fish oil, Fit D3, blah blah) and about a million other things (cialis, curcumin, boswella, resveratrol, citrus bergamot, glutathione, beetroot, garlic, blah blah--literally about 20 things). I normally TRT on 150mg test and no AI, but this time decided to cruise on 200mg test enanthate and 25mg aromasin weekly, a nd have done so for 4 months now, and nothing else. I want to do a blast but I had expected this set of bloods to come back absolutely squeaky clean perfect. They are undoubtedly better than most people's, but I have a few questions anyway..._
> 
> 
> 
> I am consistently giving blood every 3 months. RBC and HCT go down pretty well when I give blood, but my haemoglobin does not go down by much. Is there something I can do to change this, so they all go down proportionately?
> 
> 
> How dangerous is it to be a couple points over the normal range for haemoglobin for most of the year? Should I get this under "control" before considering blasting again?
> 
> 
> MCHC has never been out of range in over 5 years of getting bloods. I can't find anything on the web about reducing it or if it being a couple of points over is anything to concern myself with. Any ideas?
> 
> 
> I use a lot of creatine (10g/day). I assume this is why my creatinine is slightly high? I made sure not to train, use creatine or eat excessive protein in the 3 days before this test. (Something I don't normally do, but I thought I would try this time).
> 
> 
> I don't get how (I was well hydrated) my eGFR (white, 35 years old, male, nearly-normal creatinine level, very healthy/active) is 66 in a range of 60-250! It's been below 90 for about a year now, although it hasn't declined during this time, the medichecks tests didn't;t used to have this eGFR on, so I have no data going further back. Is this something to worry about?
> 
> 
> My triglycerides are slightly above normal. I have been consuming less carbs lately and a bit more fat (mostly from nuts, good oils, and meat/fish). Is this level anything to worry about? It's never been out of range before.
> 
> 
> My HDL seems very healthy to me, but I wonder what I can do to get it even higher, if anything?
> 
> 
> Many, many thanks in advance.
> 
> @swole troll in case you're interested, mate.
> 
> View attachment 167633


 Bloods look great

1- As long as HGB and HCT are under 180 and 52, don't worry about it.

2- See answer #1

3- No, don't pay it any mind.

4-People who carry more muscle than average, eat more protein, and supplement creatine will have higher creatinine levels. This is normal.

5-Same thing as #4, your GFR will appear lower if you carry more muscle, eat more protein/creatine. This is why in the USA we have an "African American GFR" reading, which i recommend for bodybuilders and athletes carrying higher than average amounts of muscle. When you get USA GFR readings you get both Regular & African American results. GFR is calculate by measuring Nitrogen/Creatinine in the body, so a certain lifestyle increases these metabolites in the body, but it does not mean that kidney function is worse, it just changes the reading you get it for GFR.

6-Were triglycerides normal with 150 mg test and no AI? If it's just cause of the blast, don't worry about it.

7- Ideally you want HDL over 1.1637, ways to increase are cardio, fish oil, red wine, red yeast rice extract and niacin.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Bloods look great
> 
> 1- As long as HGB and HCT are under 180 and 52, don't worry about it.
> 
> 2- See answer #1
> 
> 3- No, don't pay it any mind.
> 
> 4-People who carry more muscle than average, eat more protein, and supplement creatine will have higher creatinine levels. This is normal.
> 
> 5-Same thing as #4, your GFR will appear lower if you carry more muscle, eat more protein/creatine. This is why in the USA we have an "African American GFR" reading, which i recommend for bodybuilders and athletes carrying higher than average amounts of muscle. When you get USA GFR readings you get both Regular & African American results. GFR is calculate by measuring Nitrogen/Creatinine in the body, so a certain lifestyle increases these metabolites in the body, but it does not mean that kidney function is worse, it just changes the reading you get it for GFR.
> 
> 6-Were triglycerides normal with 150 mg test and no AI? If it's just cause of the blast, don't worry about it.
> 
> 7- Ideally you want HDL over 1.1637, ways to increase are cardio, fish oil, red wine, red yeast rice extract and niacin.


 Thanks, bossman.

1-5: mint.

6: Yeah, in normal range on 150mg/no AI. Maybe being at 200mg/25mg (test/AI) is what is causing this. I will drop down to 150mg/no AI again on the next cruise and if triglycerides return to well within baseline then, I'll know that's where I need to be long-long-term.

7: I do all of that except the red yeast and the niacin. Will buy both.

Cheers!!

Really appreciate it.


----------



## VeneCZ

ElChapo said:


> My go to orals for strength and mass are sdrol and winstrol.


 Speaking of SD, do you think some people are non-responders to some compounds ? I ran a few PH cycles in the past, but I only "felt" the first one with (actually first two cycles) P-Mag (second one was MENT), but I haven't felt any sides or strength from 5 week SD cycle at 30mg. Maybe it sucked carbs like crazy (but it was Chrismas time, so can't say , but that was all. And the brand I used was supported here by many reviews (BC).

Second question: Your opinion (health-wise) on all year natty approach with cuts (once a year approx.) supercharged with eph/yohimbine/salbutamol (I like it better than clen) and once every 1-1.5 year oral only cycle (Oxandrolone, some PHs like Trest, Trenavar, etc.). What might be the consequences in the long run? I do my cardio, but mostly on the cut only and dosage of eph and salbutamol is pretty low (usually eph only as pre-workout in the morning at 30mg and salbutamol not higher than 12-16 mg daily). I mean cardivascular health, prostate, HPTA, etc.

Last Q: I'm on the cut (no AAS, just the stims I mentioned), is my libido tanking from the lower bf% or is it because of the lower calorie intake? Any idea how to fix it (appart from Test and increase in calories)?

Thank you so much, I highly appreciate your work you've done for the ppl here :thumb


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would you recommend Raloxifene instead of nolva?

I have been off nolva/ralox since 2-3 months now, gyno on left side got bigger and painful when I touch even when my E2 is on range unfortunately.

I got stronger and feel better without nolva , from the IGF-1 levels who got to normal. I lived with 30% less IGF1 which is really bad for a lot of thing , strength and cognitive functions were the must touched I think.

But now I want to do 4 weeks of Raloxifene or nolva to get the gyno at least less painful but I admit that the decrease in IGF1 is not something I like..

You'd recommend 4 weeks of ralox ? or nolva?


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Looking at my above bloods, if I need 25mg of aromasin to keep my level of E2 under control when only on 200mg test, could I infer form this that I am a "high aromatizer"? And thus need more AI on cycle (say, 600mg test) than most people would?

I'm trying to decide how to set up my AI for my next blast (test/deca, 600/400). I will get bloods after 3-4 weeks to test and adjust, but I don't want 4 weeks of wild E2 because I under estimated it. I am thinking of starting out with something like 25mg twice per week and testing after 4 weeks. What do you think to that?

Thanks


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> What's your average BP reading through out the day?
> 
> Yes, it's a beta blocker like metoprolol so it's similar.


 Average reading over 2 weeks taking 3 reading through out the day is 139/89


----------



## zariph

Is it worth running proviron on every cycle, or is its just as good just doing aromasin for estro+shbg?


----------



## ghost.recon

Endomorph84 said:


> Ok, cheers anyway.
> 
> @ghost.recon can you recommend any sources where I can research (books, websites etc) contest prep and how to peak for a competition please mate? Thanks.


 Layne Norton contest prep guide.


----------



## ElChapo

VeneCZ said:


> Speaking of SD, do you think some people are non-responders to some compounds ? I ran a few PH cycles in the past, but I only "felt" the first one with (actually first two cycles) P-Mag (second one was MENT), but I haven't felt any sides or strength from 5 week SD cycle at 30mg. Maybe it sucked carbs like crazy (but it was Chrismas time, so can't say , but that was all. And the brand I used was supported here by many reviews (BC).
> 
> Second question: Your opinion (health-wise) on all year natty approach with cuts (once a year approx.) supercharged with eph/yohimbine/salbutamol (I like it better than clen) and once every 1-1.5 year oral only cycle (Oxandrolone, some PHs like Trest, Trenavar, etc.). What might be the consequences in the long run? I do my cardio, but mostly on the cut only and dosage of eph and salbutamol is pretty low (usually eph only as pre-workout in the morning at 30mg and salbutamol not higher than 12-16 mg daily). I mean cardivascular health, prostate, HPTA, etc.
> 
> Last Q: I'm on the cut (no AAS, just the stims I mentioned), is my libido tanking from the lower bf% or is it because of the lower calorie intake? Any idea how to fix it (appart from Test and increase in calories)?
> 
> Thank you so much, I highly appreciate your work you've done for the ppl here :thumb


 1. Real superdrol isn't a prohormone. I'm not sure if they used to call it one or if it was a completely different product because i have heard of prohormone superdrol. Regardless, real superdrol is extremely powerful. I would try it again with a new source. Did you run superdrol by itself with no test? That could be part of the issue as well.

2. There should be no real consequences, but keep an eye on your natural testosterone levels, taking any exogenous AAS will decrease your natural testosterone production, and overtime this effect can be permanent. You want pre-cycle total testosterone tested at 7-9 AM in the morning, fasted. Then re-test 8-12 weeks after your cycle.

3. Lower calorie intake will lower libido, if you are super lean like 5-6% sometimes that can mess with hormones too. You need a carb refeed. Depending on how lean you are, it should be more frequent. Once a week aim to get most of your calories from carbs and eat maintenance calories. Keep fat low. This will restore your hormones temporarily and your libido will improve. Keep carbs as high as possible during your cut, this will also help libido, energy and well-being.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would you recommend Raloxifene instead of nolva?
> 
> I have been off nolva/ralox since 2-3 months now, gyno on left side got bigger and painful when I touch even when my E2 is on range unfortunately.
> 
> I got stronger and feel better without nolva , from the IGF-1 levels who got to normal. I lived with 30% less IGF1 which is really bad for a lot of thing , strength and cognitive functions were the must touched I think.
> 
> But now I want to do 4 weeks of Raloxifene or nolva to get the gyno at least less painful but I admit that the decrease in IGF1 is not something I like..
> 
> You'd recommend 4 weeks of ralox ? or nolva?


 Raloxifene is more mild on the side effects and more effective for reducing gyno.

What's your total testosterone and E2 level that you are still getting gyno when you come off Nolva? Are you running anything at all?


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Looking at my above bloods, if I need 25mg of aromasin to keep my level of E2 under control when only on 200mg test, could I infer form this that I am a "high aromatizer"? And thus need more AI on cycle (say, 600mg test) than most people would?
> 
> I'm trying to decide how to set up my AI for my next blast (test/deca, 600/400). I will get bloods after 3-4 weeks to test and adjust, but I don't want 4 weeks of wild E2 because I under estimated it. I am thinking of starting out with something like 25mg twice per week and testing after 4 weeks. What do you think to that?
> 
> Thanks


 Everyone is different, 200 mg test is fairly high, i believe most people would have E2 at least a bit high when running 200 mg.

You could try 25 mg x 2 per week to start with, or 25 mg x 3 per week.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Average reading over 2 weeks taking 3 reading through out the day is 139/89


 Not so bad, you might be able to get away with 2.5 mg daily instead of 5 mg. You are borderline. If you can get under 130/90 mmhg, you will be good to go.

125/85 mmhg or under would be ideal.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Is it worth running proviron on every cycle, or is its just as good just doing aromasin for estro+shbg?


 Question is too broad, what does proviron do for you? It could be worth it for one guy and another doesn't think so .


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Raloxifene is more mild on the side effects and more effective for reducing gyno.
> 
> What's your total testosterone and E2 level that you are still getting gyno when you come off Nolva? Are you running anything at all?


 1800 test on scale of 400-1100 . E2 is low range. prog high .


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Question is too broad, what does proviron do for you? It could be worth it for one guy and another doesn't think so .


 I never ran proviron or anything like it, and wondered if it should be iincluded in my next cycle which is either test/npp or test/win


----------



## VeneCZ

ElChapo said:


> 1. Did you run superdrol by itself with no test? That could be part of the issue as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, no test at all. Like I said (maybe I didn't) I never pinned nor plan to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. There should be no real consequences, but keep an eye on your natural testosterone levels, taking any exogenous AAS will decrease your natural testosterone production, and overtime this effect can be permanent. You want pre-cycle total testosterone tested at 7-9 AM in the morning, fasted. Then re-test 8-12 weeks after your cycle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is standard Nolva PCT after prohormone/oral AAS good enough to kick back your testes to produce FSH, LH?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lower calorie intake will lower libido, if you are super lean like 5-6% sometimes that can mess with hormones too. You need a carb refeed. Depending on how lean you are, it should be more frequent. Once a week aim to get most of your calories from carbs and eat maintenance calories. Keep fat low. This will restore your hormones temporarily and your libido will improve. Keep carbs as high as possible during your cut, this will also help libido, energy and well-being.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not super lean, I have abs visible but I was leaner in the past (did tons of cardio, used much more yohimbine, had very less stress), now sitting at around 8-10% I guess, lower abs still have some lard on them but they can be seen. I see where you going with keeping carbs high, but I always had great results with low-carb approach or carb back loading. But I'm planning to give it one more week then slowly add calories, mainly from carbs.
> 
> Thanks again for your valuable response
Click to expand...


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> I never ran proviron or anything like it, and wondered if it should be iincluded in my next cycle which is either test/npp or test/win


 Give it a shot, you won't know until you try.


----------



## ElChapo

Nolva is garbage for PCT. Clomiphene does the job. 100 mg, 6-8 weeks.

Low carbs = low leptin = low energy/libido/metabolism + hungrier


----------



## Endomorph84

Probably talking out my ar$e here @El Chapo. But Jasmine Rice seems to satiate me for much longer than Basmati.

Is there a reason for that or is it in my head?! its just white rice lol.


----------



## Pancake'

This may well sound silly, but just how much of an advantage does 500mg Test vs Natural test levels in terms of muscle gain & performance compare?


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Probably talking out my ar$e here @El Chapo. But Jasmine Rice seems to satiate me for much longer than Basmati.
> 
> Is there a reason for that or is it in my head?! its just white rice lol.


 I love Jasmine rice (fluffy/creamy) and don't like basmati too much (hard/grainy) .

I think Jasmine would be more filling, might have more starch than fiber versus basmati i think. Just a theory. Starchy carb = More leptin


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> This may well sound silly, but just how much of an advantage does 500mg Test vs Natural test levels in terms of muscle gain & performance compare?


 Beats any genetic advantage you might have as an elite natural. Strength, recovery, muscular potential go way up.

Grant it, some guys train and eat so bad, they look like they don't even lift on a gram of trenbolone. I think part of this is also poor genetics, but nutrition/training are very important.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Beats any genetic advantage you might have as an elite natural. Strength, recovery, muscular potential go way up.
> 
> Grant it, some guys train and eat so bad, they look like they don't even lift on a gram of trenbolone. I think part of this is also poor genetics, but nutrition/training are very important.


 Roughly given an estimate at how much of a rate are you building muscle at? e.g 2x, 5x, 10x

What would you advise for improving sleep & increasing appetite? anytime I party my appetite crashes, I could go a long time without experiencing food cravings/hunger pains. I'm fully on my sh*t now however.

Would GHRP26 and EQ aid for boosting appetite?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Roughly given an estimate at how much of a rate are you building muscle at? e.g 2x, 5x, 10x
> 
> What would you advise for improving sleep & increasing appetite? anytime I party my appetite crashes, I could go a long time without experiencing food cravings/hunger pains. I'm fully on my sh*t now however.
> 
> Would GHRP26 and EQ aid for boosting appetite?


 No idea really, the question is too specific.

Cardio for improving sleep, magnesium/melatonin 1 hour before bed.

Appetite problem, make sure you eat a big break fast, lunch, dinner with snacks in between. If you are creative, you should have no problem getting enough calories. Whole milk and cereal is a massive amount of easy to eat calories.

GHRP-6 works at the receptor of the hunger hormone, ghrelin, so it should work, but use willpower and creative food choices to hit your caloric intake goals.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @El Chapo

Reading a few posts on ralox or nolva for gyno reversal. Currently running low dose test e 150mg a week, was going to do 300mg but changed my mind for this situation and running mast e at 400mg with 0.25 adex straight after jabs and going to add in anavar at 50mg ed also running hcg at 500iu twice weekly. I'm using this cycle to cut, currently at 16% body fat hoping to drop a few %s in 12 weeks, diet, training and sleep is good.

My question is after this cut I'm going to drop the test to 125mg a week and try nolva at 20mg a day to try and reverse some puffy nips from previous cycles. There's no lumps around the area, they just go puffy when relaxed, when its cold or i shower the puffyness goes and my chest looks good again, should i drop the test to 125mg a week to trt doses, drop the ai and run nolva 20mg for 12 weeks or add in nolva now to this cut and try to reverse with the test, mast, hcg,adex and add nolva? If this doesnt work seriously considering getting it surgically removed so wont have to worry about it coming back in future Thanks again mate!


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> Arimidex does not reverse gyno, only Nolvadex/raloxifene does.
> 
> You can take nolvadex to stop it from getting worse and if you're lucky it might reverse it while you are on cycle. This is more likely to happen if you control your E2 with an AI while you take the test and nolvadex.


 I read that you cannot take an Ai and nolva at the same time, I'm going to assume this was incorrect where I read it.

I have developed gyno and adex used to reverse it, it's now gotten to a point it doesn't, done so much letro my e2 levels were non existent. Can I use nolva whilst using adex?

And finally, can you recommend the best way to check the status of any plaque in your arteries?


----------



## Baka

Imdone88 said:


> I read that you cannot take an Ai and nolva at the same time, I'm going to assume this was incorrect where I read it.
> 
> I have developed gyno and adex used to reverse it, it's now gotten to a point it doesn't, done so much letro my e2 levels were non existent. Can I use nolva whilst using adex?


 yea u can.. best is aromasin + Raloxifene , for me.


----------



## Imdone88

Baka said:


> yea u can.. best is aromasin + Raloxifene , for me.


 Raloxifene isn't easy to get sadly.

I've been getting intense pressure in my. Head for over 12 months now. It's not a headache, feel like my head is filling with fluid, can feel my heart beating in my head, and face, my eyes feel like they're too big if that makes sense.... Its like my heads in a bubble. I though my estro was too high then found it was crashed, but I've been getting it regardless. Thought it was my blood pressure but its always been OK....

Had ct scans nothing. No clue what it is....


----------



## Baka

Imdone88 said:


> Raloxifene isn't easy to get sadly.
> 
> I've been getting intense pressure in my. Head for over 12 months now. It's not a headache, feel like my head is filling with fluid, can feel my heart beating in my head, and face, my eyes feel like they're too big if that makes sense.... Its like my heads in a bubble. I though my estro was too high then found it was crashed, but I've been getting it regardless. Thought it was my blood pressure but its always been OK....
> 
> Had ct scans nothing. No clue what it is....


 mate i kinda have the same thing then you.. since some months I have problem with my eyes like they want to come out , I have difficulty concentrate on something , really annoying.

I also feel like head is in a bubble..

I first thought it was E2 , it was not.

Then I thought it was high hematocrit , I gave a lot of blood and had normal hematocrit but still had the problem.

I also started getting cognitive problems , hard to do simple sentences or remembering things etc THEN I stopped nolvadex and raloxifen and in 4 weeks my cognitive problems are gone , but still have the sensation my head is in a bubble with eye problem. I also feel my heart beating in my head , making it move when I m on my pillow ( and my blood pressure is 135/8 which isn't too high).

Noting has been found , but I'm sure it's related to neurological problems unfortunately , surely from drugs.med taken this last years.(nolva/ralox/test/AIs/T3/caber)

For your gyno , I had NON visible E2 levels on blood tests from letro use , and STILL had growing gyno.

And guess what.. even with non visible E2 I had gyno growth from really high progesterone levels... pretty sad. nothing is known to lower it apart from abortion pills.. and I got that high progesterone from what ? CABER (lot of bioscience saying caber lowers prolactin/prog , it decrease prolactin but do increase progesterone x4-10 , I have bloods works to prove it and also research on internet , the thing is that no one is testing for progesterone so they don't even know).

what does this mean ? --> even with really low E2 , if you have really high progesterone It ll be enough to give you high E2 symptoms. ( if you are gyno prone , but you are as I am).

You know what I can advice for you ? get your gyno cut ( I 'm putting money every month to get it cut this year ) .

You won't need that much AI , no need SERMs .. and keep your cycle to test/masteron , give blood every 2 months , do cardio 3 times a week or more like Elchapo advised me recently . I promise you you'll feel better mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> Reading a few posts on ralox or nolva for gyno reversal. Currently running low dose test e 150mg a week, was going to do 300mg but changed my mind for this situation and running mast e at 400mg with 0.25 adex straight after jabs and going to add in anavar at 50mg ed also running hcg at 500iu twice weekly. I'm using this cycle to cut, currently at 16% body fat hoping to drop a few %s in 12 weeks, diet, training and sleep is good.
> 
> My question is after this cut I'm going to drop the test to 125mg a week and try nolva at 20mg a day to try and reverse some puffy nips from previous cycles. There's no lumps around the area, they just go puffy when relaxed, when its cold or i shower the puffyness goes and my chest looks good again, should i drop the test to 125mg a week to trt doses, drop the ai and run nolva 20mg for 12 weeks or add in nolva now to this cut and try to reverse with the test, mast, hcg,adex and add nolva? If this doesnt work seriously considering getting it surgically removed so wont have to worry about it coming back in future Thanks again mate!


 You should be able to drop to 10% with 12 weeks cutting, more or less. This will be great because you will be able to see what is actually gyno versus estrogenic fat.

You can run the nolvadex during your cut because your test is only 150 mg, you are taking AI, and masteron might help the nolvadex fight the gyno. Originally, when @ghost.recon and i were developing our gyno reversal protocol, we had masteron in there.

Run it the nolvadex the full 12 weeks at 20 mg. It should work.


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> I read that you cannot take an Ai and nolva at the same time, I'm going to assume this was incorrect where I read it.
> 
> I have developed gyno and adex used to reverse it, it's now gotten to a point it doesn't, done so much letro my e2 levels were non existent. Can I use nolva whilst using adex?
> 
> And finally, can you recommend the best way to check the status of any plaque in your arteries?


 It's horseshit and not true. Broscience myth. You can use AI with nolvadex.

Letrozole does not work for gyno.

You can do a cardiac CT test, it does imaging to look at calcification.


----------



## Imdone88

Baka said:


> mate i kinda have the same thing then you.. since some months I have problem with my eyes like they want to come out , I have difficulty concentrate on something , really annoying.
> 
> I also feel like head is in a bubble..
> 
> I first thought it was E2 , it was not.
> 
> Then I thought it was high hematocrit , I gave a lot of blood and had normal hematocrit but still had the problem.
> 
> I also started getting cognitive problems , hard to do simple sentences or remembering things etc THEN I stopped nolvadex and raloxifen and in 4 weeks my cognitive problems are gone , but still have the sensation my head is in a bubble with eye problem. I also feel my heart beating in my head , making it move when I m on my pillow ( and my blood pressure is 135/8 which isn't too high).
> 
> Noting has been found , but I'm sure it's related to neurological problems unfortunately , surely from drugs.med taken this last years.(nolva/ralox/test/AIs/T3/caber)


 Yeah that's what I get, I thought use of t3 had cause the eye problems, but I've been checked via ct scan and all clear, I'm waiting to see a neurologist about it.

Never had this issue until about 12 months ago, been using gear for 3 years now. I have no idea what It is. Sometime it develops into a headache but it's sharp shooting pain down the left hand side of my head which then goes away.

Doctors told me sinuses but had sinus surgery and nothing. Eyes been checked at optician, all clear.

I have no idea what else to try. I still got it even after stopping gear usage for a while.


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> It's horseshit and not true. Broscience myth. You can use AI with nolvadex.
> 
> Letrozole does not work for gyno.
> 
> You can do a cardiac CT test, it does imaging to look at calcification.


 Thankyou, any idea what could be causing head pressure? My BP is always around 130/85, and sometimes lower.

Was at 140/90 for around 6 months before I got it under control.

Endocrine Dr's ran a cortisol test on my pituarity and came back clear as did other blood results (male hormone) but they didn't go into specifics


----------



## Baka

Imdone88 said:


> Yeah that's what I get, I thought use of t3 had cause the eye problems, but I've been checked via ct scan and all clear, I'm waiting to see a neurologist about it.
> 
> Never had this issue until about 12 months ago, been using gear for 3 years now. I have no idea what It is. Sometime it develops into a headache but it's sharp shooting pain down the left hand side of my head which then goes away.
> 
> Doctors told me sinuses but had sinus surgery and nothing. Eyes been checked at optician, all clear.
> 
> I have no idea what else to try. I still got it even after stopping gear usage for a while.


 dude you're like me..

i forgot to tell , I thought I had the eye problem from 1 year straight T3 use (25mcg , replacement dose approximatively) , I stopped totally since September but even .. it got worse.

Like you I've been using test since 3 years now , started having this symptoms since march 2018 , so same then you once again.

Read what I wrote about gyno in my reply (you missed this part).

The only doctor I havent seen is a neurologist , please tell me what he tells you because we have the same problems.


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> Raloxifene isn't easy to get sadly.
> 
> I've been getting intense pressure in my. Head for over 12 months now. It's not a headache, feel like my head is filling with fluid, can feel my heart beating in my head, and face, my eyes feel like they're too big if that makes sense.... Its like my heads in a bubble. I though my estro was too high then found it was crashed, but I've been getting it regardless. Thought it was my blood pressure but its always been OK....
> 
> Had ct scans nothing. No clue what it is....


 Have you gotten hematocrit checked? Low E2 can cause headaches too.


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> Have you gotten hematocrit checked? Low E2 can cause headaches too.


 Always been normal, but I donate regularly.

I'll need to get bloods checked again to see where it's at. All just a shot in the dark I guess.

I regularly wake up with red puffy eyes, eyes always look dull and bloodshot too.

I just "feel" unhealthy but my bloods have never indicated that could be the case.

Had about 4 xrays of my chest due to palpitations etc and no signs of heart enlargement, but I just don't feel right, had 7 day ecgs etc and all normal.

No idea what's going on with me.


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> Always been normal, but I donate regularly.
> 
> I'll need to get bloods checked again to see where it's at. All just a shot in the dark I guess.
> 
> I regularly wake up with red puffy eyes, eyes always look dull and bloodshot too.
> 
> I just "feel" unhealthy but my bloods have never indicated that could be the case.
> 
> Had about 4 xrays of my chest due to palpitations etc and no signs of heart enlargement, but I just don't feel right, had 7 day ecgs etc and all normal.
> 
> No idea what's going on with me.


 Are you running anything? Have you check thyroid levels? Is your E2 normal? Total test?


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> Are you running anything? Have you check thyroid levels? Is your E2 normal? Total test?


 November's bloods attached. Then came off for 5 weeks as endo was testing my levels which he reported as normal.

I'm now Currently on sphinx rip. 1.5ml e3d.

75mcg t3 and 20mcg clen.

However even when I was off I got this.

My e2 was deranged as was prolactin back then as I was trying to rid myself of gyno. Severely crashed both levels.

It's not BP, had omron machine gave me readings of 186/85 so bought a new machine today different brand, 132/86.

I have ordered another hormone check at medichecks.

My eyes feel dry which is what the optician stated when I got them checked. I just feel like my heads being squashed, but it's not painful like a headache..... At a total loss..


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> You should be able to drop to 10% with 12 weeks cutting, more or less. This will be great because you will be able to see what is actually gyno versus estrogenic fat.
> 
> You can run the nolvadex during your cut because your test is only 150 mg, you are taking AI, and masteron might help the nolvadex fight the gyno. Originally, when @ghost.recon and i were developing our gyno reversal protocol, we had masteron in there.
> 
> Run it the nolvadex the full 12 weeks at 20 mg. It should work.


 I aiming for 10-12% with this cut, I added masteron because of the dry look the leaner i get and i read it has some anti e properties to a certain extent. Ill start the nolva and hopefully it will clear it up,

thank you mate, top advice again!


----------



## swole troll

What's your thoughts on cardarine?(benefits and the potential links to cancer)


----------



## TrenBalonie

@El Chapo

Do you think that 40mg Ed of Telmisartan will hinder fat loss in some way?

I have noticed that since I am using it my bp is perfect.... But I am worried about fatloss.

Was reading that is a really healthy drug for bodybuilders.

If Telmisartan is not ok... What else I can use to keep bp ok? My e2 are fine and just using TestE EQ Masteron ATM for bulking.


----------



## TrenBalonie

Lloyd H said:


> I aiming for 10-12% with this cut, I added masteron because of the dry look the leaner i get and i read it has some anti e properties to a certain extent. Ill start the nolva and hopefully it will clear it up,
> 
> thank you mate, top advice again!


 I have noticed that Nolvadex while cutting seems to help your body sheedding fat in difficult zones like gluts and lower back.

Is that just broscience or it truly does that?


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> View attachment 167663
> 
> 
> November's bloods attached. Then came off for 5 weeks as endo was testing my levels which he reported as normal.
> 
> I'm now Currently on sphinx rip. 1.5ml e3d.
> 
> 75mcg t3 and 20mcg clen.
> 
> However even when I was off I got this.
> 
> My e2 was deranged as was prolactin back then as I was trying to rid myself of gyno. Severely crashed both levels.
> 
> It's not BP, had omron machine gave me readings of 186/85 so bought a new machine today different brand, 132/86.
> 
> I have ordered another hormone check at medichecks.
> 
> My eyes feel dry which is what the optician stated when I got them checked. I just feel like my heads being squashed, but it's not painful like a headache..... At a total loss..


 Your headaches and weird feeling is probably from T3 hyperthyroidism. I don't recommend T3, it's a poor compound, especially over 50 mcg and on it's own. Lots of side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> View attachment 167663
> 
> 
> November's bloods attached. Then came off for 5 weeks as endo was testing my levels which he reported as normal.
> 
> I'm now Currently on sphinx rip. 1.5ml e3d.
> 
> 75mcg t3 and 20mcg clen.
> 
> However even when I was off I got this.
> 
> My e2 was deranged as was prolactin back then as I was trying to rid myself of gyno. Severely crashed both levels.
> 
> It's not BP, had omron machine gave me readings of 186/85 so bought a new machine today different brand, 132/86.
> 
> I have ordered another hormone check at medichecks.
> 
> My eyes feel dry which is what the optician stated when I got them checked. I just feel like my heads being squashed, but it's not painful like a headache..... At a total loss..


 Omron is a very good brand. How many times did you re-test with omron? It might have been correct too.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> I aiming for 10-12% with this cut, I added masteron because of the dry look the leaner i get and i read it has some anti e properties to a certain extent. Ill start the nolva and hopefully it will clear it up,
> 
> thank you mate, top advice again!


 Yep losing a 1 lbs per week in 12 weeks you should net you a 6% fat loss. Next time, if you want the dryest look possible, run winstrol. However, masteron/nolva is a good stack for hitting the gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> What's your thoughts on cardarine?(benefits and the potential links to cancer)


 I would cycle it for a couple of months (2-3) so you can train harder, it's really good for runners, cyclers, fighters and swimmers. I wouldn't run it year round. You can keep the training adaptations and/or technique improvement from the cardarine blast once you come off it.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Do you think that 40mg Ed of Telmisartan will hinder fat loss in some way?
> 
> I have noticed that since I am using it my bp is perfect.... But I am worried about fatloss.
> 
> Was reading that is a really healthy drug for bodybuilders.
> 
> If Telmisartan is not ok... What else I can use to keep bp ok? My e2 are fine and just using TestE EQ Masteron ATM for bulking.


 No, it should have zero effect. Technically a beta blocker MIGHT at a higher dosage since it's the opposite of EC stack, but telmisartan has a different mechanism of action to lower BP, through angiotensin not beta receptors.

If you are using telmisartan and your BP is perfect with no side effects, keep using it.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> I have noticed that Nolvadex while cutting seems to help your body sheedding fat in difficult zones like gluts and lower back.
> 
> Is that just broscience or it truly does that?


 It's plausible broscience, i give it enough plausiblity to be possible. Many female pros and some male ones run nolvadex for cutting down for competition and hitting the estrogenic fat in the glutes, etc.


----------



## Matt6210

@El Chapo could I ask your opinion on primo plz mate and your opinion on minimum dose required, heard 1g a week mentioned but then people saying had good results from a lot less.

I'm trying a 300mg test, 50mg prov a day, 4iu gh 5 times a week, 10iu novo post workout and was thinking 600/700mg primo.

I'm trying the primo as I'm sick of feeling like s**t on cycle with 19nors and high test.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> @El Chapo could I ask your opinion on primo plz mate and your opinion on minimum dose required, heard 1g a week mentioned but then people saying had good results from a lot less.
> 
> I'm trying a 300mg test, 50mg prov a day, 4iu gh 5 times a week, 10iu novo post workout and was thinking 600/700mg primo.
> 
> I'm trying the primo as I'm sick of feeling like s**t on cycle with 19nors and high test.


 It's overrated for most people for the money. 700 mg-1 gram but not worth the money in my opinion. Nothing special about it. It's like a masteron/deca hybrid.

Why dont you try high test with high dose winstrol or superdrol? With GH/Slin that will work very well.


----------



## VeneCZ

ElChapo said:


> Lower calorie intake will lower libido, if you are super lean like 5-6% sometimes that can mess with hormones too. You need a carb refeed. Depending on how lean you are, it should be more frequent. Once a week aim to get most of your calories from carbs and eat maintenance calories. Keep fat low. This will restore your hormones temporarily and your libido will improve. Keep carbs as high as possible during your cut, this will also help libido, energy and well-being.


 Do you think proviron would help in this case? I assume best would be to reverse diet and raise the carbs, but what if one would like to keep cutting. I repeat no Test is used (otherwise I wouldn't have such problem) during this cut nor any AAS, just thinking about throwing in Var for the reverse diet.

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

VeneCZ said:


> Do you think proviron would help in this case? I assume best would be to reverse diet and raise the carbs, but what if one would like to keep cutting. I repeat no Test is used (otherwise I wouldn't have such problem) during this cut nor any AAS, just thinking about throwing in Var for the reverse diet.
> 
> Thank you


 Maybe, definitely up your carb intake. Just lower protein/fat.


----------



## zariph

How much winny would you add to

600mg test

400mg npp

8 weeks left of cycle and never used winny, would you recommend starting at 20mg ED or better of just doing 50mgED


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> How much winny would you add to
> 
> 600mg test
> 
> 400mg npp
> 
> 8 weeks left of cycle and never used winny, would you recommend starting at 20mg ED or better of just doing 50mgED


 50-100 mg daily oral depending on your experience level.

or injectable at 150-300.

Don't waste your time on 20 mg daily.


----------



## JBlast

ElChapo said:


> If you're try to lose fat, ECA stack/T3 is going to be more effective than tren. Tren does not directly burn fat. Stims do.
> 
> You might want to bump the total AAS level to 300 mg to get a better muscle preservation effect. 150/150 test/tren or 300 mg test solo is a good stack.


 1) Didn't you say tren is not good for cruising because of cholesterol? Or the risks are exaggerated?

Anyway I'm doing about 180/180 UGL test/mast and I feel better than 300mg test E. Thanks @ElChapo

Now when I finish the vial of Masteron E, I will try 180test + 50mg proviron per day to see the differences between mast/proviron and see if using one or another.

2) Can ALSO MTREN be good for addon to Test for cruising instead of Masteron? I read your friend ghost did that. (cruising with test and mtren) I have 250mcg tabs of mtren.


----------



## CHRIS GW

El Chapo, I have 6 weeks to lose as much fat as possible for a holiday.

DNP is out of the question, as is clen/eph but I am running...

Tren A - 700mg pw

Test E - 300mg pw

DHB - 525mg pw

T3 - 75mcg pd

What I want to know is regarding diet, what can I do for absolute best fat-loss In the 6 weeks? What's going to be the best approach for maximum results?

Thanks


----------



## TrenBalonie

JBlast said:


> 1) Didn't you say tren is not good for cruising because of cholesterol? Or the risks are exaggerated?
> 
> Anyway I'm doing about 180/180 UGL test/mast and I feel better than 300mg test E. Thanks @ElChapo
> 
> Now when I finish the vial of Masteron E, I will try 180test + 50mg proviron per day to see the differences between mast/proviron and see if using one or another.
> 
> 2) Can ALSO MTREN be good for addon to Test for cruising instead of Masteron? I read your friend ghost did that. I have 250mcg tabs of mtren.


 Mtrien Is one of most toxic AAS and you want to cruise on that... Seriously?!?

You should reconsider your AAS usage man....do better researches.....


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Yep losing a 1 lbs per week in 12 weeks you should net you a 6% fat loss. Next time, if you want the dryest look possible, run winstrol. However, masteron/nolva is a good stack for hitting the gyno.


 That's what I was aiming for was a 1lb a week. I've got down from 21% to 16% in 5weeks, I was going to run winstrol but decided to add var instead for the last 6 weeks of the cut and try and tackle this gyno problem with the mast and ai and nolva the same time, il try winstrol in my next cut. Thank you mate for the advice and help, really appreciate it!


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> 1) Didn't you say tren is not good for cruising because of cholesterol? Or the risks are exaggerated?
> 
> Anyway I'm doing about 180/180 UGL test/mast and I feel better than 300mg test E. Thanks @ElChapo
> 
> Now when I finish the vial of Masteron E, I will try 180test + 50mg proviron per day to see the differences between mast/proviron and see if using one or another.
> 
> 2) Can ALSO MTREN be good for addon to Test for cruising instead of Masteron? I read your friend ghost did that. (cruising with test and mtren) I have 250mcg tabs of mtren.


 Definitely not something to cruise, there's no real advantage. if you want the ripped "tren look", just stay under 12% body fat and cruise on 200-300 mg testosterone. You don't need trenbolone. Trenbolone is not safe to cruise on if you care about cardiovascular health.

Mast isn't bad for cruising but some guys have hair thinning and prostate swelling/pissing issues from it.

Mtren is one of the most toxic steroids available, no. You can do it as a "bridge" to the next cycle but i would not do it as a cruise.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> El Chapo, I have 6 weeks to lose as much fat as possible for a holiday.
> 
> DNP is out of the question, as is clen/eph but I am running...
> 
> Tren A - 700mg pw
> 
> Test E - 300mg pw
> 
> DHB - 525mg pw
> 
> T3 - 75mcg pd
> 
> What I want to know is regarding diet, what can I do for absolute best fat-loss In the 6 weeks? What's going to be the best approach for maximum results?
> 
> Thanks


 You can lose 6-12 lbs of fat in 6 weeks. That's 3-6% body fat. In order to lose 6% in 6 weeks you need to hit a caloric deficit of 1,000, so it's no walk in the park.

For diet, strict 1,000 calorie deficit. Protein 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight), the rest carbs. Keep fat low.

T3 might make you hungrier, i don't recommend it honestly, especially over 50 mcg, it can lead to hyperthyroid symptoms like headache and feeling off, weak, tired.

What do you think your bodyfat % is right now?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> That's what I was aiming for was a 1lb a week. I've got down from 21% to 16% in 5weeks, I was going to run winstrol but decided to add var instead for the last 6 weeks of the cut and try and tackle this gyno problem with the mast and ai and nolva the same time, il try winstrol in my next cut. Thank you mate for the advice and help, really appreciate it!


 Anytime man

Let me know how the gyno goes, i love hearing success stories about nolva/ralox. We need to spread the word that gyno is reversible.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> You can lose 6-12 lbs of fat in 6 weeks. That's 3-6% body fat. In order to lose 6% in 6 weeks you need to hit a caloric deficit of 1,000, so it's no walk in the park.
> 
> For diet, strict 1,000 calorie deficit. Protein 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight), the rest carbs. Keep fat low.


 I understand glycogen depletion will make things look a million times worse. And Glycogen can be partially restored in 24-36 hours, fully in 4 days.

But would somebody lose much muscle tissue if dieting that hard?

Would I be right in thinking the more BF the less muscle you will burn?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Anytime man
> 
> Let me know how the gyno goes, i love hearing success stories about nolva/ralox. We need to spread the word that gyno is reversible.


 Will do mate, hopefully itl work will see how the next 12 weeks go, the only thing that's bugging me is my chest, everything else coming along nicely shoulders arms back legs etc, it's hardly noticeable but I know its there so that's enough reason for me to get rid of it aswell, thanks again mate, speak soon.


----------



## CHRIS GW

ElChapo said:


> You can lose 6-12 lbs of fat in 6 weeks. That's 3-6% body fat. In order to lose 6% in 6 weeks you need to hit a caloric deficit of 1,000, so it's no walk in the park.
> 
> For diet, strict 1,000 calorie deficit. Protein 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight), the rest carbs. Keep fat low.
> 
> T3 might make you hungrier, i don't recommend it honestly, especially over 50 mcg, it can lead to hyperthyroid symptoms like headache and feeling off, weak, tired.
> 
> What do you think your bodyfat % is right now?


 I'd say I'm maximum 15% bodyfat currently. So all the recommendations of keeping carbs very low to get lean are not what you'd recommend? How about placing the majority of carbs around the workout? My plan was to do very low carb, high protein and medium fats with a high carb day every 5/6 days, but if cutting carbs is not necessary I'd much rather not have to....

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> I understand glycogen depletion will make things look a million times worse. And Glycogen can be partially restored in 24-36 hours, fully in 4 days.
> 
> But would somebody lose much muscle tissue if dieting that hard?
> 
> Would I be right in thinking the more BF the less muscle you will burn?


 Typically no, especially on AAS.

Studies done on starvation like the prison experiment, the men didn't even lose that much muscle AND they weren't lifting weights. Muscle is pretty easy to maintain even on a harsh cut as long as your training intensity stays high and you get enough protein. Without carbs, training intensity will suffer and hunger/cravings will be worse.

It's easier to maintain muscle with higher body, the leaner you are, the more likely you are to lose muscle, but it's nothing to worry about if you aren't at <9%/single digit body fat, and especially if you are taking AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> I'd say I'm maximum 15% bodyfat currently. So all the recommendations of keeping carbs very low to get lean are not what you'd recommend? How about placing the majority of carbs around the workout? My plan was to do very low carb, high protein and medium fats with a high carb day every 5/6 days, but if cutting carbs is not necessary I'd much rather not have to....
> 
> Thanks


 With hard work, you COULD get to 9% and that's when abs really start in my experience.

Carbs can go anywhere, but i recommend post-workout and for dinner/before bed for best results.

Cutting carbs is NOT necessary. Caloric deficit is the only thing that matters, but carbs will keep you stronger, fuller, better mood and less hunger/cravings.


----------



## smiddy444

@El Chapo Any chance you could have a quick look at this -

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/327209-steroids-and-prostatitis/?do=embed

Saves me re-posting in here, though I am happy to do so if you want to keep it within this thread.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 50-100 mg daily oral depending on your experience level.
> 
> or injectable at 150-300.
> 
> Don't waste your time on 20 mg daily.


 Thx, will try win for first time, few guys recommended me masteron instead of wins because win is quite hard on lipids? What the main differences between mast and win, this is for a bulk btw


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx, will try win for first time, few guys recommended me masteron instead of wins because win is quite hard on lipids? What the main differences between mast and win, this is for a bulk btw


 Winstrol blows masteron out of the water in every regard. Trenbolone cooks lipids just as bad if not worse than winstrol. Bad lipids for a short duration is not going to cause any negative health effects.

Winstrol is a great tissue and strength builder that sucks water out of you and increases vascularity.

Masteron is very mild by comparison, it's more of a polisher. It's a poor muscle builder, it has a mild drying effect.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol blows masteron out of the water in every regard. Trenbolone cooks lipids just as bad if not worse than winstrol. Bad lipids for a short duration is not going to cause any negative health effects.
> 
> Winstrol is a great tissue and strength builder that sucks water out of you and increases vascularity.
> 
> Masteron is very mild by comparison, it's more of a polisher. It's a poor muscle builder, it has a mild drying effect.


 okay so mast is something you would add to a cycle just for the estrogenic effects+shbg, but not really anything else, where as winny can basically be the base of your cycle as long as you have test with it?


----------



## TrenBalonie

@El Chapo @ghost.recon

When bulking how much fats usually should we intake?

I read always about 20% of total caloric intake.

But was thinking that a couple of eggs a day, 4-6g omega3/krill oil and 1 avocado should provide a good amount of fats, and would be enough...

During rest days should we eat less?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay so mast is something you would add to a cycle just for the estrogenic effects+shbg, but not really anything else, where as winny can basically be the base of your cycle as long as you have test with it?


 Pretty much, mast is a polisher but winstrol is even better at that too.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.recon
> 
> When bulking how much fats usually should we intake?
> 
> I read always about 20% of total caloric intake.
> 
> But was thinking that a couple of eggs a day, 4-6g omega3/krill oil and 1 avocado should provide a good amount of fats, and would be enough...


 Keep fat low, carbs higher. This lowers the risk of storing extra calories as fat.

Its harder to store excess carbs as fat than it it is fat itself.

You don't need to add fats to your diet. You will get enough from your other foods.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @El Chapo @ghost.recon
> 
> When bulking how much fats usually should we intake?
> 
> I read always about 20% of total caloric intake.
> 
> But was thinking that a couple of eggs a day, 4-6g omega3/krill oil and 1 avocado should provide a good amount of fats, and would be enough...
> 
> During rest days should we eat less?


 You can do the same caloric deficit or cycle calories for rest/training days, it doesnt matter as long as the weekly deficit is the same.


----------



## pma111

Did you mention a few pages back for gut inflammation curcumin without piperine is best, whereas normally youd take it with piperine or its poorly absorbed. How come for gut inflammation its best taken without piperine, wouldnt this mean its badly absorbed and therefore limited in its benefit.


----------



## Pancake'

Why do some report that tren promotes a sense of emotional detachment/withdrawal? if you're familiar with Pete Rubish, he has a video elaborating on the 'coldness' lack of empathy he experienced. I'm just curious why this only seems to be reported with tren and no other aas?

What's the root cause behind the violent dreams some report whilst running tren? is this due to brain chemistry being altered?

Anyway you can minimise or deal with tren cough, what's the best thing to do, when you experience the cough?

What do you think about the link between tren and Alzheimer's disease?

How much does tren vs winstrol compare in terms of strength?


----------



## JBlast

Thoughts on Methyl-1-testosterone? Do you rate it or It's something garbage?


----------



## zariph

Thought on running t3 on bulk? pros/cons?


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Thoughts on Methyl-1-testosterone? Do you rate it or It's something garbage?


 Pointless really. Nothing special about it.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thought on running t3 on bulk? pros/cons?


 Not worth it, if you wanna stay lean on a bulk, keep your surplus small (+300 calories) and keep fat low.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Did you mention a few pages back for gut inflammation curcumin without piperine is best, whereas normally youd take it with piperine or its poorly absorbed. How come for gut inflammation its best taken without piperine, wouldnt this mean its badly absorbed and therefore limited in its benefit.


 Because without piperine it sits in the gut, so it's effects are exerted on the gut.

With piperine it gets absorbed into the blood stream so you get system effects vs local without piperine. The point is since it's badly absorbed, it sits in the gut and helps the gut.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Why do some report that tren promotes a sense of emotional detachment/withdrawal? if you're familiar with Pete Rubish, he has a video elaborating on the 'coldness' lack of empathy he experienced. I'm just curious why this only seems to be reported with tren and no other aas?
> 
> What's the root cause behind the violent dreams some report whilst running tren? is this due to brain chemistry being altered?
> 
> Anyway you can minimise or deal with tren cough, what's the best thing to do, when you experience the cough?
> 
> What do you think about the link between tren and Alzheimer's disease?
> 
> How much does tren vs winstrol compare in terms of strength?


 This is a common side of tren and i have noticed it in a lot of people. Others actually become more affectionate on tren. I believe this is due to some effect on oxytocin. A study in goats or sheep showed that trenbolone created a huge increase in oxytocin (love/cuddle hormone). Just shows every drug and hormone will affect us differently due to genetics and lifestyle.

Not sure, but tren and AAS have strong effects on the CNS and dopamine/serotonin so mood changes and weird dreams make sense.

Tren cough just happens when you get some oil in the blood stream, it's harmless. Seems to happen less likely in the ventroglute since it has less blood vessels.

Tren+alzheimer's, study done on rodents with very very extreme doses. I would not apply it to humans using tren for bodybuilding. It was probably due to impaired circulation to the brain from tren's lipid cooking effects. Vascular dementia is one of the most common forms of dementia. Although alzheimer's specifically caused by amyloid plaque formation in the brain.

For me, winstrol is better for strength but combining them is an amazing stack. Some people respond more than others to tren or winstrol.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo just starting some anavar 50 tablets and want to run 75mg/day. I hate splitting tablets in half could I just run 100mg one day followed by 50mg the next day then 100 then 50 etc etc? Any reason not to do this? A bit OCD lol


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo just starting some anavar 50 tablets and want to run 75mg/day. I hate splitting tablets in half could I just run 100mg one day followed by 50mg the next day then 100 then 50 etc etc? Any reason not to do this? A bit OCD lol


 Yeah, you can do that.


----------



## Pancake'

Does carrying more muscle/overall mass increase a individuals chance of survival from impact or wounds?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Does carrying more muscle/overall mass increase a individuals chance of survival from impact or wounds?


 Yeah, apparently carrying more muscle and being stronger reduces all cause mortality, Pretty neat.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Pointless really. Nothing special about it.


 Interesting! Shows everyone is different, for fast non watery mass I would rank m1t above even superdrol for me(so number 1)! Only problem is I start to feel shitty after about 10days.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would -20/30% less IGF-1 in your bloods for a month decrease your strength performance ?

Let's say you do PRs test every week , then you have -30% IGF-1 levels , will you lose some strength?

I guess yes but wondering what you think about it


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would -20/30% less IGF-1 in your bloods for a month decrease your strength performance ?
> 
> Let's say you do PRs test every week , then you have -30% IGF-1 levels , will you lose some strength?
> 
> I guess yes but wondering what you think about it


 No clue but i wouldn't want to find out. IGF-1 is what we get from growth hormone injections and being young, that's one of the reason i'm against long-term nolvadex.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> No clue but i wouldn't want to find out. IGF-1 is what we get from growth hormone injections and being young, that's one of the reason i'm against long-term nolvadex.


 yea.. I just started again using Raloxifene today.. I took 1 60mg pill and already regret it lol.

I'm trying to gain strength every day with my trainings , and that instant decrease of IGF1 (30%) will mostly give me cognitive decline + less strength gains or even worse.

I really have to get that gyno cut..


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo

For hypertrophy do you have a preferred split and rep range you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> For hypertrophy do you have a preferred split and rep range you recommend?


 It depends on the movement for rep range. Deadlifts are good in the 3-5, bench press 5-15, curls 12-15. etc. I like a combination of compound strength movement and accessories for individual muscles with a focus on progressive overload (increasing weight or reps as often as possible + caloric surplus = muscle gain). I used to mix it up with powerlifting and bodybuiilding style splits, it all works as long as you stick to the fundamentals ( caloric surplus+ progressive overload ).


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> Keep fat low, carbs higher. This lowers the risk of storing extra calories as fat.
> 
> Its harder to store excess carbs as fat than it it is fat itself.
> 
> You don't need to add fats to your diet. You will get enough from your other foods.


 when bulking though that's a lot of carbs.. I can eat 600-700g a day but to lower fat to 15% of 5k calories daily would mean 83g fat and 813g of carbs with protein at 250g.

not sure if I go about it unless using maltodextrin or dextrose etc how much of that can you add post workout?


----------



## SoberHans

Now reached a body fat level I'm happy with so starting Wednesday, I'm changing my cycle to a lean bulk.

Got some superdrol from a previous cycle.

Would you suggest adding 10mg a day for 6 weeks or 20mg a day for 3 weeks at the end of the cycle?

Thanks again


----------



## PSevens2017

darren.1987 said:


> when bulking though that's a lot of carbs.. I can eat 600-700g a day but to lower fat to 15% of 5k calories daily would mean 83g fat and 813g of carbs with protein at 250g.
> 
> not sure if I go about it unless using maltodextrin or dextrose etc how much of that can you add post workout?


 Are you doing fasted cardio regularly (4-6 times per week) to get to 15% on 5k calories? That's mental. Reckon age must be a factor too. I'm 15 years older than you and no way I can eat that many calories to get to 15%.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> when bulking though that's a lot of carbs.. I can eat 600-700g a day but to lower fat to 15% of 5k calories daily would mean 83g fat and 813g of carbs with protein at 250g.
> 
> not sure if I go about it unless using maltodextrin or dextrose etc how much of that can you add post workout?


 Honestly, if it's that many calories , don't worry about it. I just suggest staying between 10-15% during your cut/bulk cycles, this way you are only a short cut away from being lean.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Now reached a body fat level I'm happy with so starting Wednesday, I'm changing my cycle to a lean bulk.
> 
> Got some superdrol from a previous cycle.
> 
> Would you suggest adding 10mg a day for 6 weeks or 20mg a day for 3 weeks at the end of the cycle?
> 
> Thanks again


 10 mg / 6 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> Are you doing fasted cardio regularly (4-6 times per week) to get to 15% on 5k calories? That's mental. Reckon age must be a factor too. I'm 15 years older than you and no way I can eat that many calories to get to 15%.


 I think he means 15% of his calories to come from fat if he changes his diet.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> 10 mg / 6 weeks


 Brilliant thanks again


----------



## darren.1987

PSevens2017 said:


> Are you doing fasted cardio regularly (4-6 times per week) to get to 15% on 5k calories? That's mental. Reckon age must be a factor too. I'm 15 years older than you and no way I can eat that many calories to get to 15%.


 ah no I meant the total amount of fat consumed in 5k calories would be 83g or 15% of the total cals.

I'm about 11 or 12% body fat right now.. I have to eat that many cals due to my metabolism and job.. I sometimes have to go up to 6k or more unfortunately.



ElChapo said:


> Honestly, if it's that many calories , don't worry about it. I just suggest staying between 10-15% during your cut/bulk cycles, this way you are only a short cut away from being lean.


 I meant to say a breakdown of 5k calories was

65%/813g carbs

20%/250g protein

15%/83g fat

seemed a lot of carbs to consume daily and was asking how much fast acting carbs you can get away with post workout? dextrose is usually 50g with cream of rice and protein.

could you double the amount of dextrose or is it too much sugar? (I'm guessing it is)

what total grams of fat would be ok to consume iv seen people eating 150g etc when bulking as obviously a lot simpler to add nut butters/ advocado/ olive oils etc to get cals in easier.

but wasn't sure if it's not good to take in that many from fats


----------



## PSevens2017

darren.1987 said:


> ah no I meant the total amount of fat consumed in 5k calories would be 83g or 15% of the total cals.
> 
> I'm about 11 or 12% body fat right now.. I have to eat that many cals due to my metabolism and job.. I sometimes have to go up to 6k or more unfortunately.
> 
> I meant to say a breakdown of 5k calories was
> 
> 65%/813g carbs
> 
> 20%/250g protein
> 
> 15%/83g fat
> 
> seemed a lot of carbs to consume daily and was asking how much fast acting carbs you can get away with post workout? dextrose is usually 50g with cream of rice and protein.
> 
> could you double the amount of dextrose or is it too much sugar? (I'm guessing it is)
> 
> what total grams of fat would be ok to consume iv seen people eating 150g etc when bulking as obviously a lot simpler to add nut butters/ advocado/ olive oils etc to get cals in easier.
> 
> but wasn't sure if it's not good to take in that many from fats


 Thanks both.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> ah no I meant the total amount of fat consumed in 5k calories would be 83g or 15% of the total cals.
> 
> I'm about 11 or 12% body fat right now.. I have to eat that many cals due to my metabolism and job.. I sometimes have to go up to 6k or more unfortunately.
> 
> I meant to say a breakdown of 5k calories was
> 
> 65%/813g carbs
> 
> 20%/250g protein
> 
> 15%/83g fat
> 
> seemed a lot of carbs to consume daily and was asking how much fast acting carbs you can get away with post workout? dextrose is usually 50g with cream of rice and protein.
> 
> could you double the amount of dextrose or is it too much sugar? (I'm guessing it is)
> 
> what total grams of fat would be ok to consume iv seen people eating 150g etc when bulking as obviously a lot simpler to add nut butters/ advocado/ olive oils etc to get cals in easier.
> 
> but wasn't sure if it's not good to take in that many from fats


 Don't obsess so much over macros, it's a waste of mental energy and won't make a difference in the long run.

Stick to your surplus, train hard, get stronger, get bigger.


----------



## Will2309

@ElChapo

I am in a bulking phase at the moment until end of March but I really enjoy doing all different kinds of cardio from 4-5 miles runs to 5k-6k on the rower now I know you say cardio is Good and we need to do it but maybe low intensity rather that high intensity.

My question is how detrimental to my bulk doing this type of cardio be????

Will be a case of just eating more foods to make up for the cals burnt.

Iam on 450mg of test.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I am in a bulking phase at the moment until end of March but I really enjoy doing all different kinds of cardio from 4-5 miles runs to 5k-6k on the rower now I know you say cardio is Good and we need to do it but maybe low intensity rather that high intensity.
> 
> My question is how detrimental to my bulk doing this type of cardio be????
> 
> Will be a case of just eating more foods to make up for the cals burnt.
> 
> Iam on 450mg of test.


 It's only detrimental if it 1. interferes with your energy for your workouts. Too much cardio will tire out the muscles. 2. Increases calories burned so much that you have trouble eating enough to grow muscle.

I would cut back on the volume of cardio and limit to x 2-3 per week max on a bulk and make sure you do it after and not before your lifting.

Eating more foods will only cover one problem, but again, too much cardio will tire out your muscles.


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo

How much cardio for how long do you recommend for health benefits mate? Currently cruising so it may benefit in tidying a little bf also lol


----------



## swole troll

TITO said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How much cardio for how long do you recommend for health benefits mate? Currently cruising so it may benefit in tidying a little bf also lol


 https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/300969-ama-30-turbo-charged-ft-el-chapo/?page=211&tab=comments#comment-6174067


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How much cardio for how long do you recommend for health benefits mate? Currently cruising so it may benefit in tidying a little bf also lol


 See the post @swole troll linked to^


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> It's only detrimental if it 1. interferes with your ener
> 
> 
> 
> Will2309 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> I am in a bulking phase at the moment until end of March but I really enjoy doing all different kinds of cardio from 4-5 miles runs to 5k-6k on the rower now I know you say cardio is Good and we need to do it but maybe low intensity rather that high intensity.
> 
> My question is how detrimental to my bulk doing this type of cardio be????
> 
> Will be a case of just eating more foods to make up for the cals burnt.
> 
> Iam on 450mg of test.
> 
> 
> 
> gy for your workouts. Too much cardio will tire out the muscles. 2. Increases calories burned so much that you have trouble eating enough to grow muscle.
> 
> I would cut back on the volume of cardio and limit to x 2-3 per week max on a bulk and make sure you do it after and not before your lifting.
> 
> Eating more foods will only cover one problem, but again, too much cardio will tire out your muscles.
Click to expand...

 I will cut it back abit and save it for cutting in April.

Many thanks.


----------



## Ferenor

Did a research in this thread but sadly found nothing about it. So, how would you run clenbuterol? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off or always on?


----------



## CHRIS GW

El Chapo I know you're not the biggest advocate of t3 for fat loss, but is there any way of even guesstimating how many kcal t3 roughly burns per 25mcg? I know it's surely going to be individual, but I'm trying to figure out roughly how much my 75mcg dose of t3 is contributing to my energy requirements. Even just a ball park figure? I know it's not purely fat burn kcal too, t3 doesn't favour tissue type...Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> Did a research in this thread but sadly found nothing about it. So, how would you run clenbuterol? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off or always on?


 I answered this a few times. Just run it straight, no need to cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

CHRIS GW said:


> El Chapo I know you're not the biggest advocate of t3 for fat loss, but is there any way of even guesstimating how many kcal t3 roughly burns per 25mcg? I know it's surely going to be individual, but I'm trying to figure out roughly how much my 75mcg dose of t3 is contributing to my energy requirements. Even just a ball park figure? I know it's not purely fat burn kcal too, t3 doesn't favour tissue type...Thanks


 I've never seen any specific number, only for T4 which increased it by something like 2-3% daily at 200 mcg. So maybe close to 10% if you convert that for T3. Clenbuterol is thought to increase TDEE by 10% roughly.

T3 tends to increase hunger and can decrease strength and muscle endurance. It's always best to pretend you aren't getting extra calories burned when taking a fat burner, just forget you are taking it, many make the mistake of increasing their intake by taking in to account the extra calories burned.


----------



## Ferenor

ElChapo said:


> I answered this a few times. Just run it straight, no need to cycle.


 Thanks for the answer!


----------



## zariph

A mate just got bloodwork few weeks after dbol/test cycle, he got elavated liver vlaues but lipids are normal? I though dbol would be hard on lipids?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> A mate just got bloodwork few weeks after dbol/test cycle, he got elavated liver vlaues but lipids are normal? I though dbol would be hard on lipids?


 Everyone responds differently, some people have very bad lipids on TRT only. Others can blast and still have decent values.


----------



## TrenBalonie

I hate Clen.... I love Efedrina HCl !!


----------



## Whoremoan1

as a basic supplement what would be your thoughts on this https://primevallabs.com/primalog-nutrient-partitioner-glucose-disposal-agent/

best used in bulk or cut and or both?

best time to use ? i think john meadows said he uses it pre workout and before bed...


----------



## Ferenor

What is your cheapest but effective (and also versatile) cycle / stack? May I assume test + winstrol or sdrol? At what dosages?


----------



## leechild4

Hi. I'm planning a bulking cycle after a bit of a break, but am prone to gyno and have suffered from some instances in the past. What would be a couple of options for some simple stacks that are less likely to cause gyno that i could look into. Obviously i will have aromasin on hand during the cycle and nolva to block anything in the first place but just want to minimize risks.

after some nice clean gains rather than anything too watery. thanks.


----------



## TrenBalonie

Ferenor said:


> What is your cheapest but effective (and also versatile) cycle / stack? May I assume test + winstrol or sdrol? At what dosages?


 You can bulk or cut with any cycle all steroids are "versatile". Just use at least 50mg Winstrol and 250mg Test....


----------



## TURBS

Whoremoan1 said:


> as a basic supplement what would be your thoughts on this https://primevallabs.com/primalog-nutrient-partitioner-glucose-disposal-agent/


 $60 for 4 days supply (30 tabs @ 7 a day)... right bargain :huh:


----------



## m575

TERBO said:


> $60 for 4 days supply (30 tabs @ 7 a day)... right bargain :huh:


 Says 210 tabs on the bottle


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> as a basic supplement what would be your thoughts on this https://primevallabs.com/primalog-nutrient-partitioner-glucose-disposal-agent/
> 
> best used in bulk or cut and or both?
> 
> best time to use ? i think john meadows said he uses it pre workout and before bed...


 The jury is still out on the usefulness of metformin/berberine for bodybuilding/body comp. I wouldn't waste my money on it. Insulin is cheaper and works better.

It's like comparing a test booster to straight testosterone. The testosterone is actually cheaper and x 100 more effective.


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> What is your cheapest but effective (and also versatile) cycle / stack? May I assume test + winstrol or sdrol? At what dosages?


 Yep, the beauty of test winstrol/sdrol is minimal side effects, low chance of gyno, cheap, easy to find and versatile for cutting and bulking.

Dosage will depend on experience level and goals. Not everyone wants a ton of mass/strength and some need more than others.

A beginner/novice/intermediate lifter would do well on 300-600 mg testosterone (i always recommend prop x 2-3 per week) and 50 mg oral winstrol daily or 150 mg injectable winstrol per week.

An advanced/elite lifter/bodybuilder can do 700 mg-1 gram test P + 150 mg injectable winstrol+150 mg injectable superdrol or 100 mg oral winstrol+20-40 mg oral superdrol.

This stack works amazing for strength, muscle building, bulking, cutting, etc. You will look dry, shredded, ripped, and pumped. Try it and see what i'm talking about.

Of course, remember i always recommend being 15% body fat max or less year round, for many good reasons.


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> Hi. I'm planning a bulking cycle after a bit of a break, but am prone to gyno and have suffered from some instances in the past. What would be a couple of options for some simple stacks that are less likely to cause gyno that i could look into. Obviously i will have aromasin on hand during the cycle and nolva to block anything in the first place but just want to minimize risks.
> 
> after some nice clean gains rather than anything too watery. thanks.


 If you don't want watery, stay away from enanthate/cypionate. Test prop 300 mg-1 gram + AI as needed. Winstrol 50-100 mg daily oral or 150-300 mg injectable. Optional: Add 40 mg injectable superdrol x 3 per week.

I give you a range of dosages because it really depends on your experience level, goals, and response to AAS. You can go higher or lower and add other things of course.


----------



## TURBS

m575 said:


> Says 210 tabs on the bottle


 Fair enough then


----------



## swole troll

Is there anything worth taking to stimulate appetite?

Ghrp 6 and mk677 work well but I really can't be assed with the pin cushioning of my belly on ghrp 6 or turning my blood into maple syrup with MK 677

I'm starting up some dbol in a weeks time and the thought of trying to forcefeed on it is already making me feel nauseous


----------



## Jordan08

Would keto 2% cream as effective as shampoo?. If yes, how you suggest to use it?.

Many thanks


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo inject SD gives less lethargy then oral SD?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Is there anything worth taking to stimulate appetite?
> 
> Ghrp 6 and mk677 work well but I really can't be assed with the pin cushioning of my belly on ghrp 6 or turning my blood into maple syrup with MK 677
> 
> I'm starting up some dbol in a weeks time and the thought of trying to forcefeed on it is already making me feel nauseous


 Pretty much those two, since the major appetite hormone/signal is Ghrelin. These two compounds activate Ghrelin's receptor.

Other wise, stick to tasty, easy to eat carbs+whole milk. Sugary breakfast cereals+pancakes+whole milk. Easiest way i have found to pound in a lot of calories. Eat a big breakfast and snack through out the day. Sometimes eating during a bulk is tougher than the actual training.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Would keto 2% cream as effective as shampoo?. If yes, how you suggest to use it?.
> 
> Many thanks


 Yeah, apply daily and just leave it in the hair, crown, temples.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo inject SD gives less lethargy then oral SD?


 I still get lethargy and appetite suppression from injectable. A price must be paid for the gains.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Pretty much those two, since the major appetite hormone/signal is Ghrelin. These two compounds activate Ghrelin's receptor.
> 
> Other wise, stick to tasty, easy to eat carbs+whole milk. Sugary breakfast cereals+pancakes+whole milk. Easiest way i have found to pound in a lot of calories. Eat a big breakfast and snack through out the day. Sometimes eating during a bulk is tougher than the actual training.


 Deffo agree with the eating on the bulk being harder than the training...physically and mentaly!


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Deffo agree with the eating on the bulk being harder than the training...physically and mentaly!


 For sure, you gotta do what you gotta do to achieve your goals.


----------



## Pancake'

In regards to the truly blessed bodybuilders, do you think these guys are starting small and responding super well to the low doses? or are they running stacks from the off?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> In regards to the truly blessed bodybuilders, do you think these guys are starting small and responding super well to the low doses? or are they running stacks from the off?


 Either / or, eventually their genetics will let them build a lot more muscle. They might blast huge doses from the start or start slowly, eventually their genetics will shine through. It doesn't really make a difference whether they start low or high.


----------



## TrenBalonie

@ElChapo 750 TestE 300 TrenA 300 Winstrol do you think it will be too much for a 220lbs 8%bf gentleman? For how much time can someone stay on that cycle?

On non wo days is that okay to cut carbs in half?


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @ElChapo 750 TestE 300 TrenA 300 Winstrol do you think it will be too much for a 220lbs 8%bf gentleman? For how much time can someone stay on that cycle?
> 
> On non wo days is that okay to cut carbs in half?


 That's a great stack, you would look fantastic if you switch from Enathate to prop if it makes you hold water and can even bump test to 1 gram.

Is this for cutting or bulking? You can carb cycle if you want, but there is no real advantage other than being able to eat more protein/fat on rest days.


----------



## TrenBalonie

ElChapo said:


> That's a great stack, you would look fantastic if you switch from Enathate to prop if it makes you hold water and can even bump test to 1 gram.
> 
> Is this for cutting or bulking? You can carb cycle if you want, but there is no real advantage other than being able to eat more protein/fat on rest days.


 It will be for a bulk.

Usually I see not much difference from TestP to Enantate, on Sustanon the first week I get flu almost always even with pharma sust.

The only ester that seems to keep me drier is Test Phenylpropionate, but I have no sources now for that.

So best stack would be 1g test prop 300 TrenA 300 Winny.

Since we run an oral for at least 8w, using 600mg Injectable Glutathione a week should help with bloods right?


----------



## Redsy

After reading and previous thoughts from you, please can i just confirm a good mild stack for me to add a some strength, endurance (if possible) and recovery. Am a cyclist and need weight low. Am on TRT dose and GH at minute and feel great, even whilst cutting with clen. Lost 16lbs pretty quickly.

Bf 11%, 168lbs, 5''10"

Test P - 150-200mg/wk

Winny - 25mg ED (would i get much from this or would i need 50mg)

GH 3iu x 4 / week

How long could i run this relatively safely starting from good bloods.

Also, am 2-3 weeks before am back to 80% fitness after an op. Start cycle now or wait until fully fit? I can do most exercises except squat and deads at minute. But not able to push 100% on bike either and will have lost a good bit on the bike after 8weeks off.

Would i be better training as i am until am fully fit and can benefit from cycle.

Would adding some EQ to above just be pointless and too complex?


----------



## Pancake'

Can I stick 2x45lb plates under a flat bench to create an incline?


----------



## Matt6210

Pancake' said:


> Can I stick 2x45lb plates under a flat bench to create an incline?


 how the f**k would @ElChapo know if the owner/management of your local gym would mind you sticking plates under benches?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Can I stick 2x45lb plates under a flat bench to create an incline?


 I wouldn't go through all that trouble to create an incline for flat bench.

If anything, keep doing flat bench and add some dumbbell incline curls to hit the upper pecs.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> It will be for a bulk.
> 
> Usually I see not much difference from TestP to Enantate, on Sustanon the first week I get flu almost always even with pharma sust.
> 
> The only ester that seems to keep me drier is Test Phenylpropionate, but I have no sources now for that.
> 
> So best stack would be 1g test prop 300 TrenA 300 Winny.
> 
> Since we run an oral for at least 8w, using 600mg Injectable Glutathione a week should help with bloods right?


 Run TUDCA or UDCA for liver protection.

NAC actually increases glutathione ALOT more than straight up glutathione.

Best liver stack: 250-500 mg UDCA/TUDCA + 1,000 mg NAC.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> After reading and previous thoughts from you, please can i just confirm a good mild stack for me to add a some strength, endurance (if possible) and recovery. Am a cyclist and need weight low. Am on TRT dose and GH at minute and feel great, even whilst cutting with clen. Lost 16lbs pretty quickly.
> 
> Bf 11%, 168lbs, 5''10"
> 
> Test P - 150-200mg/wk
> 
> Winny - 25mg ED (would i get much from this or would i need 50mg)
> 
> GH 3iu x 4 / week
> 
> How long could i run this relatively safely starting from good bloods.
> 
> Also, am 2-3 weeks before am back to 80% fitness after an op. Start cycle now or wait until fully fit? I can do most exercises except squat and deads at minute. But not able to push 100% on bike either and will have lost a good bit on the bike after 8weeks off.
> 
> Would i be better training as i am until am fully fit and can benefit from cycle.
> 
> Would adding some EQ to above just be pointless and too complex?


 If you wanna keep weight gain low and strength gains high, focus on low volume powerlifting. Deadlift/Squat/Bench. 5-8 rep range for Bench/Squat, 3-5 rep range for deadlift.

Hit a 300 calorie surplus daily. Give it 12-16 weeks, focus on increasing your strength on the big 3 lifts. Set goals for yourself that you wanna hit.

I would wait until you are fully recovered. Honestly, it's best to focus this cycle around gaining strength while keeping weight low, don't try to increase endurance AND strength at the same time, it's very counter productive as the two pathways and respective adaptations antagonize each other. Once you finish your cycle 12-16 week strength cycle, work on endurance on your cruise. Anything more than 200 mg of test will start to drop your cardiovascular endurance but the strength on the cycle you gained you can maintain on cruise.

Keep it simple, if anything, you can bump the winstrol to 50 mg daily. I would keep test p at 200 mg.


----------



## Matt6210

Pancake' said:


> You div
> 
> not if it's allowed, but can you do that to create a incline. I'm not training in a gym atm and bench am using is a bit f*cked. can't really set to incline.


 Div?

"but can you do it to create an incline"

yeah that's exactly what your fu**ing doing... it ain't rocket science.


----------



## Matt6210

Pancake' said:


> Well I've never fcuking tried it before have I softlad, hence asking. Fcuking muppet. Don't @ me you joker.


 So you haven't tried it before but you still don't understand if you put something under something it would make it higher, There for creating an incline? Don't @ you what the f**k does that mean?


----------



## Pancake'

Matt6210 said:


> So you haven't tried it before but you still don't understand if you put something under something it would make it higher, There for creating an incline? Don't @ you what the f**k does that mean?


 Apologies Matt, mind was elsewhere, it was a daft question. forget it.


----------



## Matt6210

Pancake' said:


> Apologies Matt, mind was elsewhere, it was a daft question. forget it.


 No worries bro, but was no need to get so rude about it! :thumbup1:


----------



## Pancake'

Matt6210 said:


> No worries bro, but was no need to get so rude about it! :thumbup1:


 You're not the only one who goes full retard haha.


----------



## stewedw

Re: incline, I'd hit it last with dumbbells of its a custom made type thing, otherwise you might end up with the bar falling or injuring you. Happened to my pal as the hooks holding in place were designed for flat bench etc. All the best.


----------



## TURBS

Pancake' said:


> Apologies Matt, mind was elsewhere, it was a daft question. forget it.


 I started off with a flat bench at home and put a wooden bedroom drawer under either end, depending on doing incline or decline... didn't die once lol


----------



## Pancake'

stewedw said:


> Re: incline, I'd hit it last with dumbbells of its a custom made type thing, otherwise you might end up with the bar falling or injuring you. Happened to my pal as the hooks holding in place were designed for flat bench etc. All the best.





TERBO said:


> I started off with a flat bench at home and put a wooden bedroom drawer under either end, depending on doing incline or decline... didn't die once lol


 I was hoping to just stick 2 plates under end a flat bench so I could DB incline press. hadn't done it before, so asked if I could wing it and it's went down like a chocolate fire guard. clearly.


----------



## TURBS

Pancake' said:


> I was hoping to just stick 2 plates under end a flat bench so I could DB incline press. hadn't done it before, so asked if I could wing it and it's went down like a chocolate fire guard. clearly.


 Think you need something more stable than plates under it or you might end up a pancake


----------



## Matt6210

Pancake' said:


> I was hoping to just stick 2 plates under end a flat bench so I could DB incline press. hadn't done it before, so asked if I could wing it and it's went down like a chocolate fire guard. clearly.


 Those steppers people use in gym are good stick under the end mate, better off something like @TERBO suggested, couple of plates won't be high enough.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> If you wanna keep weight gain low and strength gains high, focus on low volume powerlifting. Deadlift/Squat/Bench. 5-8 rep range for Bench/Squat, 3-5 rep range for deadlift.
> 
> Hit a 300 calorie surplus daily. Give it 12-16 weeks, focus on increasing your strength on the big 3 lifts. Set goals for yourself that you wanna hit.
> 
> I would wait until you are fully recovered. Honestly, it's best to focus this cycle around gaining strength while keeping weight low, don't try to increase endurance AND strength at the same time, it's very counter productive as the two pathways and respective adaptations antagonize each other. Once you finish your cycle 12-16 week strength cycle, work on endurance on your cruise. Anything more than 200 mg of test will start to drop your cardiovascular endurance but the strength on the cycle you gained you can maintain on cruise.
> 
> Keep it simple, if anything, you can bump the winstrol to 50 mg daily. I would keep test p at 200 mg.


 That's how I was training prior to op. I think realistically with hernia repair, deads squats will be last thing I'll be able to do whilst recovering, definitely heavy. Though I'll be able to do pretty much everything else.

Really, I'll be doing leg stuff, upper body, but no compound movements heavy. Bench and ohp be fine but not massively helpful to a cyclist. Surgeon reckoned phase 2 of healing was maturation of the repair which took 2 months, after the 6weeks initial healing which is where am at now.

So I'll probably be doing 3gym sessions, and probably 3 rides, 2x2hrs, 1x4hrs.

If I run winny 25mg, should I see the benefit?

Safe to run winny for 12-16 weeks? Or better 4weeks winny, no winny 4weeks, then winny last 4weeks.

After that to keep gains, improve cardio planning on TRT 125mg test when spring/summer cycling season is here.

Moving over to test p, has made a big improvement in water retention. Alongside a 4week cut am really pleased. Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> That's how I was training prior to op. I think realistically with hernia repair, deads squats will be last thing I'll be able to do whilst recovering, definitely heavy. Though I'll be able to do pretty much everything else.
> 
> Really, I'll be doing leg stuff, upper body, but no compound movements heavy. Bench and ohp be fine but not massively helpful to a cyclist. Surgeon reckoned phase 2 of healing was maturation of the repair which took 2 months, after the 6weeks initial healing which is where am at now.
> 
> So I'll probably be doing 3gym sessions, and probably 3 rides, 2x2hrs, 1x4hrs.
> 
> If I run winny 25mg, should I see the benefit?
> 
> Safe to run winny for 12-16 weeks? Or better 4weeks winny, no winny 4weeks, then winny last 4weeks.
> 
> After that to keep gains, improve cardio planning on TRT 125mg test when spring/summer cycling season is here.
> 
> Moving over to test p, has made a big improvement in water retention. Alongside a 4week cut am really pleased. Thanks


 That's not a problem, just focus on strength and less on volume if you want to keep your weight down. Keep each exercise to 3 sets max.

I don't know how you will respond to winstrol for endurance, that's not my field. I just know AAS at even moderate doses will cripple endurance. It's best if you build the strength you want while on AAS and then cruise and train endurance. Steroids are not good for endurance most of the time. They encourage adaptations that lead to increased strength and power which is not conducive to endurance or stamina.

Liver toxicity is overstated, you can run winstrol 16 weeks with no issues, especially with TUDCA/NAC.

Make sure 125 mg test gets you to optimal levels of total testosterone. Some people need a bit more than that, some actually need less.

I love test P, it's in my top 3 for sure.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I was hoping to just stick 2 plates under end a flat bench so I could DB incline press. hadn't done it before, so asked if I could wing it and it's went down like a chocolate fire guard. clearly.


 I had very good results with flat barbell bench + incline dumbbell press for upper chest development. Never really did barbell incline.

That with high volume pec deck machine is all you need to build chest mass.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, apply daily and just leave it in the hair, crown, temples.


 Just like a normal hair gel or creams?. Currently. i am using Keto 2% shampoo every other day. Now, thinking of using cream after the normal shampoo in the evening and leaving the cream on head overnight.


----------



## Pancake'

Matt6210 said:


> Those steppers people use in gym are good stick under the end mate, better off something like @TERBO suggested, couple of plates won't be high enough.


 Yeah that was my initial question bro, whether 2xplates is enough of a incline. I've got 25kg plates as well. need to get back in a gym ideally. Nice one though.


----------



## Pancake'

Jordan08 said:


> Just like a normal hair gel or creams?. Currently. i am using Keto 2% shampoo every other day. Now, thinking of using cream after the normal shampoo in the evening and leaving the cream on head overnight.


 Not f*cking about are you. :lol:


----------



## Endomorph84

Pancake' said:


> Not f*cking about are you. :lol:


 @Jordan08 after 2 weeks of that protocol haha.


----------



## Pancake'

Endomorph84 said:


> @Jordan08 after 2 weeks of that protocol haha.
> 
> View attachment 167829


 It's more like that dude wanting the laser removal. some back that, you wouldn't need a jacket.


----------



## Jordan08

Pancake' said:


> Not f*cking about are you. :lol:


 Sad time currently mate


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Hi mate. Whens best to take nolva for minor gyno? Im taking it in the morning with all my other vitamins 20mg nolva with multi vit, zinc,vit d and omega 3 after breakfast.

Researched some threads and some say take it before bed and some say split it 10mg morning and 10mg before bed, whats the best protocol or does time not matter? Cheers mate


----------



## Pancake'

Jordan08 said:


> Sad time currently mate


 At least you won't resemble voldemort bruh or sen pictured above on 3g a test.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> That's not a problem, just focus on strength and less on volume if you want to keep your weight down. Keep each exercise to 3 sets max.
> 
> I don't know how you will respond to winstrol for endurance, that's not my field. I just know AAS at even moderate doses will cripple endurance. It's best if you build the strength you want while on AAS and then cruise and train endurance. Steroids are not good for endurance most of the time. They encourage adaptations that lead to increased strength and power which is not conducive to endurance or stamina.
> 
> Liver toxicity is overstated, you can run winstrol 16 weeks with no issues, especially with TUDCA/NAC.
> 
> Make sure 125 mg test gets you to optimal levels of total testosterone. Some people need a bit more than that, some actually need less.
> 
> I love test P, it's in my top 3 for sure.


 I am using clen during a cut. Noticed improved breathing, know this was an asthma drug originally and i intermittently use a ventolin inhaler.

Also, know quite a few pro cyclists were caught using clen in the day, but always thought it was for weight loss.

Would clen help cardio? So could i use a small dose when am ready to perform my best on the bike whilst on TRT test P?

Am taking 120 clen now in cut, manageable but do have shakes. What kind of dose would be good for cardio benefits if applicable?

Thanks


----------



## leechild4

ElChapo said:


> If you don't want watery, stay away from enanthate/cypionate. Test prop 300 mg-1 gram + AI as needed. Winstrol 50-100 mg daily oral or 150-300 mg injectable. Optional: Add 40 mg injectable superdrol x 3 per week.
> 
> I give you a range of dosages because it really depends on your experience level, goals, and response to AAS. You can go higher or lower and add other things of course.


 awesome. will give this a go!


----------



## TrenBalonie

@El Chapo do you have some documents about how to workout properly? It's always a good thing to learn how to do things better.

ATM I am reading "Championship Bodybuilding" from Chris Aceto, old but seems gold.

Thanks as always!!


----------



## Endomorph84

TrenBalonie said:


> ATM I am reading "Championship Bodybuilding" from Chris Aceto, old but seems gold.


 Hi mate, I've 3 books by Tudor Bompa - All good books.

Serious 'Strength Training' and 'Periodization, the theory and methodology of training' are both good reads. The each have chapters specific to Hypertrophy.

You can get them off eBay for next to nothing.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Just like a normal hair gel or creams?. Currently. i am using Keto 2% shampoo every other day. Now, thinking of using cream after the normal shampoo in the evening and leaving the cream on head overnight.


 *You can do that. You will see best results from nizoral after 6 months. It has even reversed/thickened hair in some studies. Stay consistent with it, it works. *


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate. Whens best to take nolva for minor gyno? Im taking it in the morning with all my other vitamins 20mg nolva with multi vit, zinc,vit d and omega 3 after breakfast.
> 
> Researched some threads and some say take it before bed and some say split it 10mg morning and 10mg before bed, whats the best protocol or does time not matter? Cheers mate


 Doesn't matter, just make sure you take it for 8-12 weeks for best results.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> I am using clen during a cut. Noticed improved breathing, know this was an asthma drug originally and i intermittently use a ventolin inhaler.
> 
> Also, know quite a few pro cyclists were caught using clen in the day, but always thought it was for weight loss.
> 
> Would clen help cardio? So could i use a small dose when am ready to perform my best on the bike whilst on TRT test P?
> 
> Am taking 120 clen now in cut, manageable but do have shakes. What kind of dose would be good for cardio benefits if applicable?
> 
> Thanks


 A lot of the stim/fat burner drugs have positive effects on stamina and endurance which gives you a bonus effect on fat loss on top of the increase lipolysis.

60-100 mcg should do the job. 120 mcg is on the higher end.


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> awesome. will give this a go!


 Let me know how it goes.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> @El Chapo do you have some documents about how to workout properly? It's always a good thing to learn how to do things better.
> 
> ATM I am reading "Championship Bodybuilding" from Chris Aceto, old but seems gold.
> 
> Thanks as always!!


 You mean proper technique for workouts or a routine?


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> A lot of the stim/fat burner drugs have positive effects on stamina and endurance which gives you a bonus effect on fat loss on top of the increase lipolysis.
> 
> 60-100 mcg should do the job. 120 mcg is on the higher end.


 Cool, sounds like it could be perfect for when am wanting to ride hard. So maybe try 60mcg and work up to highest dose where i don't get sides/shakes?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What are the effects of oral steroids on Cortisol levels in the blood?

Ive always had really high cortisol from anxiety problems , and stress/anxious people tend to stock fat on their abs sides like me

Since I started AAS I had less of this fat on the sides , and from blood tests my cortisol is now in the normal range ( on orals only , on test only too).

So , do AAS lower cortisol levels ? and how ?


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Cool, sounds like it could be perfect for when am wanting to ride hard. So maybe try 60mcg and work up to highest dose where i don't get sides/shakes?


 Yeah


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are the effects of oral steroids on Cortisol levels in the blood?
> 
> Ive always had really high cortisol from anxiety problems , and stress/anxious people tend to stock fat on their abs sides like me
> 
> Since I started AAS I had less of this fat on the sides , and from blood tests my cortisol is now in the normal range ( on orals only , on test only too).
> 
> So , do AAS lower cortisol levels ? and how ?


 Androgens antagonize the effects of cortisol. They block it's action on the body. Cortisol can lower testosterone too. They oppose each other.


----------



## zariph

Which injectables and orals are often underdosed and which are kinds are often more dosed as it should? Was thinking if something was cheaper/easier to make etc


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> Androgens antagonize the effects of cortisol. They block it's action on the body. Cortisol can lower testosterone too. They oppose each other.


 Currently have an issue with libido. It's not really there unless she gets me going.... Main issue is I'm producing little semen when I ejaculate, and what little there Is comes out very weakly and quite thick with no fluid consistency.

Using tren, test, mast. Any ideas??


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Which injectables and orals are often underdosed and which are kinds are often more dosed as it should? Was thinking if something was cheaper/easier to make etc


 *Anavar is most commonly faked or underdosed, the raws are expensive(sometimes its just dbol, winstrol or a combination). Primo can sometimes be re-labeled testosterone.*

*Testosterone would be the most likely to be dosed correctly, it's the cheapest raw powder. Winstrol is also very cheap. *

*A good UGL will dose correctly, some even overdosed the oils by as much as 50-100%.*


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> Currently have an issue with libido. It's not really there unless she gets me going.... Main issue is I'm producing little semen when I ejaculate, and what little there Is comes out very weakly and quite thick with no fluid consistency.
> 
> Using tren, test, mast. Any ideas??


 *AAS lowers ejaculation volume. HCG can reverse this sometimes.*

*Your libido is probably lower due to trenbolone and/or estrogen from the testosterone. 100% normal and extremely common side effect. *


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think about raws from China and elsewhere? likelihood of them being contaminated e.g heavy metals build up from using UGL products. their was a service pretty much devoted to this practice called chem clarity and overall testing in general.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think about raws from China and elsewhere? likelihood of them being contaminated e.g heavy metals build up from using UGL products. their was a service pretty much devoted to this practice called chem clarity and overall testing in general.


 +90% come from China, i don't put a lot of weight on the heavy metals thing. Raws will get filtered through .2 micron or lower which gets rid of most impurities, microbes, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think about raws from China and elsewhere? likelihood of them being contaminated e.g heavy metals build up from using UGL products. their was a service pretty much devoted to this practice called chem clarity and overall testing in general.


 Many raws used by pharmaceutical companies in the USA and UK used raws sourced from China for their medicine.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

I am still struggling with a minor lower back strain and ankle overuse injury (tendon/joint).

Doing light rehab exercising/stretching, massage and using a heating pad in the morning.

Also using GH peptides, bpc 157, mega cissus, fish oil, vitamin C, curcumin with pepper and hydrolized collagen.

Eating healthy, getting lots of water, sleeping plenty and resting.

Is there anything else you could recommend to speed up the repair/healing process?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I am still struggling with a minor lower back strain and ankle overuse injury (tendon/joint).
> 
> Doing light rehab exercising/stretching, massage and using a heating pad in the morning.
> 
> Also using GH peptides, bpc 157, mega cissus, fish oil, vitamin C, curcumin with pepper and hydrolized collagen.
> 
> Eating healthy, getting lots of water, sleeping plenty and resting.
> 
> Is there anything else you could recommend to speed up the repair/healing process?


 For the ankle, massage the tendon/ligaments and ice it 20 mins x 3 daily.

Did wonders for my achilles tendonitis, take at least 2-3 weeks of rest on anything that affects it.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> For the ankle, massage the tendon/ligaments and ice it 20 mins x 3 daily.
> 
> Did wonders for my achilles tendonitis, take at least 2-3 weeks of rest on anything that affects it.


 Without being an expert on it, I think my issue is not inflammation.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/tendinosis-definition-and-symptoms-2549909

In any case will implement the massage. This ankle issue is truly crippling!


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Without being an expert on it, I think my issue is not inflammation.
> 
> https://www.verywellhealth.com/tendinosis-definition-and-symptoms-2549909
> 
> In any case will implement the massage. This ankle issue is truly crippling!


 For both, rest is the best treatment.


----------



## Pancake'

Do you think anything else will emerge and come to light in the future ped wise? besides the likes of AAS+Peptides+SARMS


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Do you think anything else will emerge and come to light in the future ped wise? besides the likes of AAS+Peptides+SARMS


 Gene therapy/editing


----------



## invisiblekid

ElChapo said:


> *AAS lowers ejaculation volume. HCG can reverse this sometimes.*


 Is there anything else that will help with this? I've found HCG to help but I only seem to get one good 'shot' until I jab again :whistling:


----------



## Sam R

@El Chapo are there any stimulant-free fat burners that aren't a waste of money besides DNP. Have a naturally high resting heart rate therefore will not touch anything that stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, also not interested in ever using DNP. Are the likes of L-carnitine, CLA etc. a waste of money? Are there any you would reccomend during a cut?


----------



## TrenBalonie

ElChapo said:


> You mean proper technique for workouts or a routine?


 Routine.

Technique is fine no problems.

But some ideas about volume periodization... Maybe I am overthinking...


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo are there any stimulant-free fat burners that aren't a waste of money besides DNP. Have a naturally high resting heart rate therefore will not touch anything that stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, also not interested in ever using DNP. Are the likes of L-carnitine, CLA etc. a waste of money? Are there any you would reccomend during a cut?


 Waste of money.

The only non-stim that's good is DNP.

Green tea extract is okay.

You don't need fat burners to get ripped/shredded. I don't even use them for cutting anymore, ever.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> Routine.
> 
> Technique is fine no problems.
> 
> But some ideas about volume periodization... Maybe I am overthinking...


 Anything will work as long as you apply the basic principles, progressive overload, nutrition , and rest.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would you recommend TUDCA on 4 weeks winny or tbol or anavar cycle ? or would 1000mg NAC ed enough ?

Was thinking of adding an oral in the next weeks , I don't have TUDCA but NAC that I take ed already at 600mg


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo You said you gain strength on AAS , oral or injection that you can easily keep after stopping the AAS.

How do you explain that ? new muscle fibers ? 
I know for exemple that stimulants can boost your strength from the stimulation of the nervous system , how about the androgens/anabolics ? how does it work exactly ?


----------



## zariph

test P+npp 100mg EOD, last injection was wednesday and not able to do next injection untill monday, will this make a big impact in regards of reaching peak levels or anything else or will there not be any difference if Im able to do EOD again from then?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would you recommend TUDCA on 4 weeks winny or tbol or anavar cycle ? or would 1000mg NAC ed enough ?
> 
> Was thinking of adding an oral in the next weeks , I don't have TUDCA but NAC that I take ed already at 600mg


 You don't even need TUDCA, like i've said before, liver toxicity from orals is vastly overestimate. Unless you are running +100 mg for months on end or have pre-existing liver issues, you will be fine.

TUDCA/NAC is just extra insurance/precaution. People have been running orals forever without liver problems.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo You said you gain strength on AAS , oral or injection that you can easily keep after stopping the AAS.
> 
> How do you explain that ? new muscle fibers ?
> I know for exemple that stimulants can boost your strength from the stimulation of the nervous system , how about the androgens/anabolics ? how does it work exactly ?


 New muscle fibers/CNS adaptations.

You can keep some off AAS but that depends on your genetics, how much strength/muscle you are trying to maintain, and how well your natural testosterone levels recover post-cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> test P+npp 100mg EOD, last injection was wednesday and not able to do next injection untill monday, will this make a big impact in regards of reaching peak levels or anything else or will there not be any difference if Im able to do EOD again from then?


 *Not a big deal, i usually do short esters only twice or three times a week.*

*You can do monday/thursday or mon/wed/fri.*

*People don't understand that it's not just about serum levels. Gene expression is the main driving force behind adaptations from AAS. If serum levels were so important, you would have to take orals multiple times a day to get a benefit, which is not how it works. Steroids continue to increase performance/strength/mass even after levels drop from their peak through gene expression.*

*There was a study in rodents showing that test p's effect was strongest 3 days after injection, showing that gene activation peaked 3 days later even though serum peak already happened.*

*This is why you don't instantly feel the effects of high testosterone after your first injection. Most people don't know this, but after one injection of testosterone, you are already at supraphysiogical levels. The reason it takes time to "kick in" is because the genes need to be turned on to express the high testosterone levels.*


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> *Not a big deal, i usually do short esters only twice or three times a week.*
> 
> *You can do monday/thursday or mon/wed/fri.*
> 
> *People don't understand that it's not just about serum levels. Gene expression is the main driving force behind adaptations from AAS. If serum levels were so important, you would have to take orals multiple times a day to get a benefit, which is not how it works. Steroids continue to increase performance/strength/mass even after levels drop from their peak through gene expression.*
> 
> *There was a study in rodents showing that test p's effect was strongest 3 days after injection, showing that gene activation peaked 3 days later even though serum peak already happened.*


 Thx! So even if I had one full week midcycle that I couldnt dose anything even when its short esters, it shouldnt make a difference?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx! So even if I had one full week midcycle that I couldnt dose anything even when its short esters, it shouldnt make a difference?


 *Nope, you will be fine.*


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> *Not a big deal, i usually do short esters only twice or three times a week.*
> 
> *You can do monday/thursday or mon/wed/fri.*
> 
> *People don't understand that it's not just about serum levels. Gene expression is the main driving force behind adaptations from AAS. If serum levels were so important, you would have to take orals multiple times a day to get a benefit, which is not how it works. Steroids continue to increase performance/strength/mass even after levels drop from their peak through gene expression.*
> 
> *There was a study in rodents showing that test p's effect was strongest 3 days after injection, showing that gene activation peaked 3 days later even though serum peak already happened.*
> 
> *This is why you don't instantly feel the effects of high testosterone after your first injection. Most people don't know this, but after one injection of testosterone, you are already at supraphysiogical levels. The reason it takes time to "kick in" is because the genes need to be turned on to express the high testosterone levels.*


 What do you think then about the Ultimate cycle by Coach Trevor from EA. I think he uses this concept you delined.

His cycle looks like that:

DAY 1 AND 2 125-150 TestE (250-300 TestE a week)

DAY 1-2 50-100mg Anadrol

DAY 3-4 50-100mg Tren Acetate

DAT 5-6 50-100mg Trestolone Acetate

ON WORKOUT DAYS: 1iu HGH + 1 iu Humalog 5 times a day

ON NONWORKOUT DAYS: 10-30mg MK677

SUNDAY OFF from EVERYTHING

What's your opinion about that? We can do the same with every short ester or oral (i.e. 2x TrenA 2x Winny 2x Anadrol)

I think that the base idea is to stay ON forever and keep growing, when near to a show just cut down get ripped and then accumulate the right steroids for the look you need.

Regards.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> What do you think then about the Ultimate cycle by Coach Trevor from EA. I think he uses this concept you delined.
> 
> His cycle looks like that:
> 
> DAY 1 AND 2 125-150 TestE (250-300 TestE a week)
> 
> DAY 1-2 50-100mg Anadrol
> 
> DAY 3-4 50-100mg Tren Acetate
> 
> DAT 5-6 50-100mg Trestolone Acetate
> 
> ON WORKOUT DAYS: 1iu HGH + 1 iu Humalog 5 times a day
> 
> ON NONWORKOUT DAYS: 10-30mg MK677
> 
> SUNDAY OFF from EVERYTHING
> 
> What's your opinion about that? We can do the same with every short ester or oral (i.e. 2x TrenA 2x Winny 2x Anadrol)
> 
> I think that the base idea is to stay ON forever and keep growing, when near to a show just cut down get ripped and then accumulate the right steroids for the look you need.
> 
> Regards.


 Too much micromanaging with no benefit. Cycling days on/off compounds is not going to make any appreciable difference, period.

You can stay on forever, but your forever will be much shorter than a normal person's.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

On anavar , I remember having bad heartburn and acid reflux , would using pantoprazole for 4-6 weeks dangerous ? would you recommend ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> On anavar , I remember having bad heartburn and acid reflux , would using pantoprazole for 4-6 weeks dangerous ? would you recommend ?


 *I would just suck it up to be honest. Pantoprazole can make digestion worse so you don't absorb nutrients as well.*


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> *Not a big deal, i usually do short esters only twice or three times a week.*
> 
> *You can do monday/thursday or mon/wed/fri.*
> 
> *People don't understand that it's not just about serum levels. Gene expression is the main driving force behind adaptations from AAS. If serum levels were so important, you would have to take orals multiple times a day to get a benefit, which is not how it works. Steroids continue to increase performance/strength/mass even after levels drop from their peak through gene expression.*
> 
> *There was a study in rodents showing that test p's effect was strongest 3 days after injection, showing that gene activation peaked 3 days later even though serum peak already happened.*
> 
> *This is why you don't instantly feel the effects of high testosterone after your first injection. Most people don't know this, but after one injection of testosterone, you are already at supraphysiogical levels. The reason it takes time to "kick in" is because the genes need to be turned on to express the high testosterone levels.*


 My fu**ing god I've been waiting to hear this. Always suspected it. Never had it from the horse's mouth, so to speak!!


----------



## Will2309

@El Chapo

Just wanted to say thanks for putting me on to beta blockers for my blood pressure even though the Dr put me on a different one than you suggested and it's only been a week but my BP has dropped to 130/81 from 146/90. Pulse has stayed the same at 62 - 65 beats.


----------



## Matt6210

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Just wanted to say thanks for putting me on to beta blockers for my blood pressure even though the Dr put me on a different one than you suggested and it's only been a week but my BP has dropped to 130/81 from 146/90. Pulse has stayed the same at 62 - 65 beats.


 What you useing?


----------



## vetran

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Just wanted to say thanks for putting me on to beta blockers for my blood pressure even though the Dr put me on a different one than you suggested and it's only been a week but my BP has dropped to 130/81 from 146/90. Pulse has stayed the same at 62 - 65 beats.


 Not getting this, your gp has given you a script for blood pressure and you've fcked them of in favour of a forum members advice ,what meds exactly did your gp prescribe ?


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Just wanted to say thanks for putting me on to beta blockers for my blood pressure even though the Dr put me on a different one than you suggested and it's only been a week but my BP has dropped to 130/81 from 146/90. Pulse has stayed the same at 62 - 65 beats.


 Awesome, that's a good level. It might even come down some more if you stay on it longer.


----------



## ElChapo

vetran said:


> Not getting this, your gp has given you a script for blood pressure and you've fcked them of in favour of a forum members advice ,what meds exactly did your gp prescribe ?


 Most GPs will tell you to take 1 mg arimidex daily for high E2.

Good luck with that


----------



## vetran

ElChapo said:


> Most GPs will tell you to take 1 mg arimidex daily for high E2.
> 
> Good luck with that


 My GP put me on these , shall I fck him of ?


----------



## Will2309

Matt6210 said:


> What you useing?


 Bisoprolol 5mg daily. Elchapo recommended metoprolol but they don't it my area.

@vetran

I tried 3 different meds before I asked the question to elchapo.

Each of them I didn't get on with them for one reason or another and I didn't want to tell my Dr I was on aas.


----------



## Will2309

vetran said:


> My GP put me on these , shall I fck him of ?
> 
> View attachment 167883


 They was the first ones i tried and they made me depressed as f**k, when I went back to the Drs we did a online questionnaire to see if I was depressed and then he tried to give me anti depressants. I came off them and it felt like a black cloud was gone.


----------



## Matt6210

Will2309 said:


> Bisoprolol 5mg daily. Elchapo recommended metoprolol but they don't it my area.
> 
> @vetran
> 
> I tried 3 different meds before I asked the question to elchapo.
> 
> Each of them I didn't get on with them for one reason or another and I didn't want to tell my Dr I was on aas.


 Doc gave me Lisinopril


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> They was the first ones i tried and they made me depressed as f**k, when I went back to the Drs we did a online questionnaire to see if I was depressed and then he tried to give me anti depressants. I came off them and it felt like a black cloud was gone.


 He seems quite angry about it, maybe it's the amlodipine. :beer:


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> Doc gave me Lisinopril


 Each med has it's own way (mechanism of action) of lower blood pressure. Some of them affect certain hormones that regulate blood pressure, others activate or block receptors for things like adrenaline (beta blocker). Each one has it's own potential side effects. I like beta blockers as they are very mild and have some benefits for anxiety as well. There is a calming effect and they work similar to magnesium supplementation, albeit stronger. The other class of anti-hypertensive drugs tend to have more side effects because of the systems they interact with.


----------



## Will2309

Matt6210 said:


> Doc gave me Lisinopril


 I tried ramipril which is from the same family of meds but it gave me a horrible dry tickerly cough .

But if it's working for you keep on it.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> I tried ramipril which is from the same family of meds but it gave me a horrible dry tickerly cough .
> 
> But if it's working for you keep on it.


 Most docs will put you on a cocktail of drugs to treat each drugs side effects, by the time you are 65, you will be on 20 pills.


----------



## Matt6210

ElChapo said:


> Each med has it's own way (mechanism of action) of lower blood pressure. Some of them affect certain hormones that regulate blood pressure, others activate or block receptors for things like adrenaline (beta blocker). Each one has it's own potential side effects. I like beta blockers as they are very mild and have some benefits for anxiety as well. There is a calming effect and they work similar to magnesium supplementation, albeit stronger. The other class of anti-hypertensive drugs tend to have more side effects because of the systems they interact with.


 I also suffer little anxiety so what do you recommend I use?


----------



## Will2309

Matt6210 said:


> I also suffer little anxiety so what do you recommend I use?


 Not that I know alot about anxiety but won't that be because of the aas your on ????


----------



## Whoremoan1

whats the absolute highest youd run clen even if its just for 1 week ? would 160mcg be way too much?


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> I also suffer little anxiety so what do you recommend I use?


 You would be a perfect candidate for a beta blocker like metoprolol. It doesnt have to be metoprolol specifically, just the bets blocker class of medication.

Beta blockers are used by public speakers and performers to keep their nerves calm, its very mild and nothing like xanax or other powerful anxiolytic drugs with nasty sides.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> whats the absolute highest youd run clen even if its just for 1 week ? would 160mcg be way too much?


 100 mcg is the sweet spot. I wouldnt go past 120 mcg. let the caloric deficit+cardio do 90% of the job.

Clen will raise your calories burned by about 10%.


----------



## Matt6210

ElChapo said:


> You would be a perfect candidate for a beta blocker like metoprolol. It doesnt have to be metoprolol specifically, just the bets blocker class of medication.
> 
> Beta blockers are used by public speakers and performers to keep their nerves calm, its very mild and nothing like xanax or other powerful anxiolytic drugs with nasty sides.


 I'll speak to my doc cheers bud


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> I'll speak to my doc cheers bud


 Anytime

You can kill two birds with one stone with a beta blocker. Bring down BP and lower anxiety at the same time.


----------



## stewedw

@El ChapoChapo am I wrong to say you are against beta blockers and statins? I recall you saying you wouldn't give them to your father? Happily corrected.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El ChapoChapo am I wrong to say you are against beta blockers and statins? I recall you saying you wouldn't give them to your father? Happily corrected.


 *I'm not for statins. *

*I am for anti-hypertensive medications when average bp is higher than 140/90 mmhg chronically and interventions like cardio exercise, fat loss, etc have already been exhausted to try and bring it down.*

*A common and unknown cause of htn is alcohol usage. cutting back also helps bring down bp.*


----------



## pma111

What are the main health benefits of vitamin D supplementation.


----------



## TrenBalonie

ElChapo said:


> *I'm not for statins. *
> 
> *I am for anti-hypertensive medications when average bp is higher than 140/90 mmhg chronically and interventions like cardio exercise, fat loss, etc have already been exhausted to try and bring it down.*
> 
> *A common and unknown cause of htn is alcohol usage. cutting back also helps bring down bp.*


 Which drug is best to keep blood pressure down? I am using Telmisartan at 40mg and seems working.

Never tried anything else.


----------



## swole troll

What's you're thoughts on using insulin without hgh while on cycle?

I've had my own anecdotal experience with insulin only on cycle and spoken to others claiming positive results

But I've read a few times on here lately people stating insulin is totally useless without hgh and will only cause you to "get fat"

My understanding is it will still shuttle glucose into the cell, increase protein synthesis and raise igf1 in the absence of hgh so I'm interested to get your take on this


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What are the main health benefits of vitamin D supplementation.


 tons of stuff, cancer prevention, diabetes prevention, improved mood, increased strength, less heart disease.

it's a lot more than just a "bone" vitamin. Look into vitamin K2, that stuff is really incredible for heart disease prevention.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> What's you're thoughts on using insulin without hgh while on cycle?
> 
> I've had my own anecdotal experience with insulin only on cycle and spoken to others claiming positive results
> 
> But I've read a few times on here lately people stating insulin is totally useless without hgh and will only cause you to "get fat"
> 
> My understanding is it will still shuttle glucose into the cell, increase protein synthesis and raise igf1 in the absence of hgh so I'm interested to get your take on this


 It should work fine, risk of fat gain is higher, but not if you keep your surplus tight and lean bulk. GH and slin are very synergistic and cover each other's drawbacks but IGF and insulin are two of the most anabolic substances in the body besides AAS. your anecdote is the best evidence you can get.


----------



## ElChapo

TrenBalonie said:


> Which drug is best to keep blood pressure down? I am using Telmisartan at 40mg and seems working.
> 
> Never tried anything else.


 I like beta blockers, but if you have good results and no sides from that, keep using it.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> *Nope, you will be fine.*


 Great - Do you recommend any dauly foods or supplements?


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> It should work fine, risk of fat gain is higher, but not if you keep your surplus tight and lean bulk. GH and slin are very synergistic and cover each other's drawbacks but IGF and insulin are two of the most anabolic substances in the body besides AAS. your anecdote is the best evidence you can get.


 @AestheticManlet @arbffgadm100

you two may be interested in this

aestheticmanlet because of your solo usage of insulin

and arbffgadm because of the contrasting opinion of this forum on insulin not being anabolic


----------



## Matt6210

swole troll said:


> @AestheticManlet @arbffgadm100
> 
> you two may be interested in this
> 
> aestheticmanlet because of your solo usage of insulin
> 
> and arbffgadm because of the contrasting opinion of this forum on insulin not being anabolic


----------



## arbffgadm100

swole troll said:


> @AestheticManlet @arbffgadm100
> 
> you two may be interested in this
> 
> aestheticmanlet because of your solo usage of insulin
> 
> and arbffgadm because of the contrasting opinion of this forum on insulin not being anabolic


 Yep! That's exactly my point. Been saying it all along. I believe that insulin is not only anabolic, but actively blunts MPB. The reason IBBF pros are slamming in hundreds of IUs a week of GH and insulin isn't because it's the "icing on the cake".

Appreciate the tag, mate.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Matt6210 said:


> View attachment 167911


 Agree totally.


----------



## AestheticManlet

swole troll said:


> @AestheticManlet @arbffgadm100
> 
> you two may be interested in this
> 
> aestheticmanlet because of your solo usage of insulin
> 
> and arbffgadm because of the contrasting opinion of this forum on insulin not being anabolic


 Cheers buddy. I have actually dropped the slin. I don't really need it and I'm just going to stick to AAS.

I did notice more fullness though, can't really comment on much else. Did 10iu pwo then upped to 15iu. Seemed about 7g carbs/iu was fine for me, I never went lower to test.

I tried it preworkout and it wasn't great. People claim it gives insane pumps but I didn't feel anymore pumped than when using my citrulline at a good dose.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great - Do you recommend any dauly foods or supplements?


 *best supplements = *

*cardio exercise*

*any vitamin/mineral that isn't in your diet. common ones are vitamin d, vitamin k2, zinc/mag. *

*i highly recommend now foods true balance multivitamin, best one i've seen so far, very fairly priced too.*

*As for foods, keeping carbs moderate/high keeps your glycogen levels and leptin levels high. this mean you will look pumped, feel strong, and not get hungry as easily. eat whatver you like, fried chicken, pancakes, cookies etc. the two health killers are 1. sedentary lifestyle 2. being fat. *


----------



## arbffgadm100

arbffgadm100 said:


> Yep! That's exactly my point. Been saying it all along. I believe that insulin is not only anabolic, but actively blunts MPB. The reason IBBF pros are slamming in hundreds of IUs a week of GH and insulin isn't because it's the "icing on the cake".
> 
> Appreciate the tag, mate.


 @ElChapo @swole troll

One thing I forgot to mention, and the main reason I believe that insulin does a f**k lot more than simply transport glucose into the cell, is that this transport can be very easily up-regulated using e.g. exercise (I don't have the paper but I recall reading somewhere that it doesn't take much effort to activate GLUT4 transporters) creatine, holistic GDAs like berberine HCL or ALA, and of course, drugs like metaformin. If insulin did nothing different to these guys, then simply ingesting a lot of carbohydrate (which jacks up insulin anyway) and using some form of GDA would nicely blunt the insulin resistance-like effects of GH and give you the benefits of nutrient shuttling (which to a weaker degree, GH does actually provide via conversion to IGF-1).

Except that insulin doesn't just do this. It literally activates cellular signalling processes for anabolism. And for this reason, IBBF pros take as much as they can handle.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo @swole troll
> 
> One thing I forgot to mention, and the main reason I believe that insulin does a f**k lot more than simply transport glucose into the cell, is that this transport can be very easily up-regulated using e.g. exercise (I don't have the paper but I recall reading somewhere that it doesn't take much effort to activate GLUT4 transporters) creatine, holistic GDAs like berberine HCL or ALA, and of course, drugs like metaformin. If insulin did nothing different to these guys, then simply ingesting a lot of carbohydrate (which jacks up insulin anyway) and using some form of GDA would nicely blunt the insulin resistance-like effects of GH and give you the benefits of nutrient shuttling (which to a weaker degree, GH does actually provide via conversion to IGF-1).
> 
> Except that insulin doesn't just do this. It literally activates cellular signalling processes for anabolism. And for this reason, IBBF pros take as much as they can handle.


 that's one of the reason i recommend cardio, i've gotten better results gaining lean tissue when doing cardio. It really sensitizes the body's cells to insulin and increases glycogen by over 30%, that means bigger muscles with more fuel for higher reps, which leads to better workouts and more muscle.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> that's one of the reason i recommend cardio, i've gotten better results gaining lean tissue when doing cardio. It really sensitizes the body's cells to insulin and increases glycogen by over 30%, that means bigger muscles with more fuel for higher reps, which leads to better workouts and more muscle.


 Makes a lot of sense.

I honestly believe the "icing on the cake" thing, albeit at crazy doses, is the real secret that top level guys don't want to talk about. My progress on a TRT-esque dose of test and low dose GH (2-4IU) is not much behind that of any blast I have ever done.

So, naturally gifted levels of test plus one half of "the icing on the cake" (the other half being insulin, which I have never touched), gives me the same gains as 1-2g a week of AAS.

There's a whole raft of reasons why this might be, and one theory I have is that GH doesn't hammer your health quite as badly as just jacking up the doses of AAS. In my n=1 experience, "health" = better gains than "much more hormones but cannot sleep/eat/train/have lethargy/acid reflux/need to counter-medicate yourself just to function properly, etc".

Anyway, my conclusion is:

Icing on the cake; my ass.


----------



## swole troll

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo @swole troll
> 
> One thing I forgot to mention, and the main reason I believe that insulin does a f**k lot more than simply transport glucose into the cell, is that this transport can be very easily up-regulated using e.g. exercise (I don't have the paper but I recall reading somewhere that it doesn't take much effort to activate GLUT4 transporters) creatine, holistic GDAs like berberine HCL or ALA, and of course, drugs like metaformin. If insulin did nothing different to these guys, then simply ingesting a lot of carbohydrate (which jacks up insulin anyway) and using some form of GDA would nicely blunt the insulin resistance-like effects of GH and give you the benefits of nutrient shuttling (which to a weaker degree, GH does actually provide via conversion to IGF-1).
> 
> Except that insulin doesn't just do this. It literally activates cellular signalling processes for anabolism. And for this reason, IBBF pros take as much as they can handle.


 great post

yes i dont really understand the downplay of insulin on here, dave palumbo also claims it no more than a blood glucose managing tool or a way to get bigger for those that struggle to put the kcals away

first hand ive noticed significant positive effect from insulin (particularly when lean)

im guessing maybe some are getting confused because once you come off the insulin you lose the excessive glycogen retention and fullness but that is the same with GH and that watery like subcutaneous film it gives as well as muscle fullness

come to think of it you could even say the same about gear, the most common complaint about coming off or dropping to a cruise is losing 'the look' which is really just glycogen retention (or dryness and hardness in the case of some compounds) youve not really lost any significant muscle


----------



## Redsy

arbffgadm100 said:


> Makes a lot of sense.
> 
> I honestly believe the "icing on the cake" thing, albeit at crazy doses, is the real secret that top level guys don't want to talk about. My progress on a TRT-esque dose of test and low dose GH (2-4IU) is not much behind that of any blast I have ever done.
> 
> So, naturally gifted levels of test plus one half of "the icing on the cake" (the other half being insulin, which I have never touched), gives me the same gains as 1-2g a week of AAS.
> 
> There's a whole raft of reasons why this might be, and one theory I have is that GH doesn't hammer your health quite as badly as just jacking up the doses of AAS. In my n=1 experience, "health" = better gains than "much more hormones but cannot sleep/eat/train/have lethargy/acid reflux/need to counter-medicate yourself just to function properly, etc".
> 
> Anyway, my conclusion is:
> 
> Icing on the cake; my ass.


 Are you saying TRT test + 2-4iu GH EOD = similar results to 1-2g AAS?

I ask as am using pretty much that and been happy with results but never ran more than 500mg AAS per week.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Makes a lot of sense.
> 
> I honestly believe the "icing on the cake" thing, albeit at crazy doses, is the real secret that top level guys don't want to talk about. My progress on a TRT-esque dose of test and low dose GH (2-4IU) is not much behind that of any blast I have ever done.
> 
> So, naturally gifted levels of test plus one half of "the icing on the cake" (the other half being insulin, which I have never touched), gives me the same gains as 1-2g a week of AAS.
> 
> There's a whole raft of reasons why this might be, and one theory I have is that GH doesn't hammer your health quite as badly as just jacking up the doses of AAS. In my n=1 experience, "health" = better gains than "much more hormones but cannot sleep/eat/train/have lethargy/acid reflux/need to counter-medicate yourself just to function properly, etc".
> 
> Anyway, my conclusion is:
> 
> Icing on the cake; my ass.





swole troll said:


> great post
> 
> yes i dont really understand the downplay of insulin on here, dave palumbo also claims it no more than a blood glucose managing tool or a way to get bigger for those that struggle to put the kcals away
> 
> first hand ive noticed significant positive effect from insulin (particularly when lean)
> 
> im guessing maybe some are getting confused because once you come off the insulin you lose the excessive glycogen retention and fullness but that is the same with GH and that watery like subcutaneous film it gives as well as muscle fullness
> 
> come to think of it you could even say the same about gear, the most common complaint about coming off or dropping to a cruise is losing 'the look' which is really just glycogen retention (or dryness and hardness in the case of some compounds) youve not really lost any significant muscle


 Always prioritize your anecdotal experiences over anything (research, others opinions, etc),

seeing is believing. thats why i always tell people to try things out and see for themselves, and one persons experience might be different from the other.


----------



## arbffgadm100

swole troll said:


> great post
> 
> yes i dont really understand the downplay of insulin on here, dave palumbo also claims it no more than a blood glucose managing tool or a way to get bigger for those that struggle to put the kcals away
> 
> first hand ive noticed significant positive effect from insulin (particularly when lean)
> 
> im guessing maybe some are getting confused because once you come off the insulin you lose the excessive glycogen retention and fullness but that is the same with GH and that watery like subcutaneous film it gives as well as muscle fullness
> 
> come to think of it you could even say the same about gear, the most common complaint about coming off or dropping to a cruise is losing 'the look' which is really just glycogen retention (or dryness and hardness in the case of some compounds) youve not really lost any significant muscle


 I don't agree with quite a lot of what DP says tbh matey  He's obviously got a lot more experience than me, in terms of AAS and how gen pop handle stuff (I don't have clients so all my experience is n=1, + the 3-5 close friends I know that use AAS in an intelligent way + to a much lesser extent, the 20 or so other users I know that don't know their E2 from their K2), but I am very skeptical about people when they don't call BS on what I know to be almost certainly BS.

Defffo agree with the point you make about coming off anything. I'm only on 300mg primo and the fullness and pump is fu**ing insane compared to just cruising. I also recall that when on anything above 200mg tren, I permanently looked like I had a pump... that's why tren is attractive for people, because we have that voice in our head that says "if I just looked like this all the time, I'd stop" when we look in the locker room mirror post gym session. Tren gives you that. Then when you come off (esp tren) you not only look worse than when you were on, you look worse with a pump when off than you did just walking around when on.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Redsy said:


> Are you saying TRT test + 2-4iu GH EOD = similar results to 1-2g AAS?
> 
> I ask as am using pretty much that and been happy with results but never ran more than 500mg AAS per week.


 I am saying that, but under 2 conditions:

1. I am talking about me only.

2. I have never gone above 2g, and even then it was for short periods of time, and on fairly miild steroids (the bulk of it was primo and mast).


----------



## Redsy

arbffgadm100 said:


> I am saying that, but under 2 conditions:
> 
> 1. I am talking about me only.
> 
> 2. I have never gone above 2g, and even then it was for short periods of time, and on fairly miild steroids (the bulk of it was primo and mast).


 Hope it applies to me too!!

I run mild AAS to keep weight gain down.

Am really liking GH, for last 4-5mths. Seems to work well with my goals, leanness, recovery, fat loss, strength.

Interesting view, can't see me running 1-2g AAS in near future, so hard for me to compare personally.


----------



## stewedw

Are the gh users not concerned with the links to cancer? What'd your take on that @El Chapo


----------



## superpube

Thoughts on HGH solo? IE no exogenous test


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Are the gh users not concerned with the links to cancer? What'd your take on that @El Chapo


 GH can increase cancer growth IF the cancer happens.

The risk is not something i would worry about unless you have had cancer in the past or have a very strong family history of it.


----------



## ElChapo

superpube said:


> Thoughts on HGH solo? IE no exogenous test


 GH is overrated, it would be a nice cycle for a "half-natty" since shut down won't occur, recovery and lean massing will be easier.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Using accutane for a month to get off all the red spots on the skin ?

I don't have big pimples or acne but I have some small red ones and my skin doesn't look as good as when I was natty , would low dose accutane help with that?

I'm using vitamin A ed but doesn't change much


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Using accutane for a month to get off all the red spots on the skin ?
> 
> I don't have big pimples or acne but I have some small red ones and my skin doesn't look as good as when I was natty , would low dose accutane help with that?
> 
> I'm using vitamin A ed but doesn't change much


 If the red spots are acne yes, if it's something else then idk.


----------



## Malin

Speaking of accutane - it won't help with say, facial inflammation caused by an allergic reaction?


----------



## JBlast

Is it true if I inject Test P everyday I will have less aromatization going on so I could have less chance of needing an ai?

For example if I need an AI on 140mg test p per week VS if I inject 20mg daily of test p (0.2ml) subq with slin pins.

In a perfect would would you think daily subq injections of test p would be the best option for cruising/trt?


----------



## TURBS

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Using accutane for a month to get off all the red spots on the skin ?
> 
> I don't have big pimples or acne but I have some small red ones and my skin doesn't look as good as when I was natty , would low dose accutane help with that?
> 
> I'm using vitamin A ed but doesn't change much


 Don't take vitamin A *with* accutane as accutane is a derivative of vitamin A


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Speaking of accutane - it won't help with say, facial inflammation caused by an allergic reaction?


 best thing for inflammation is an anti-inflammatory like nsaid or a corticosteroid.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Is it true if I inject Test P everyday I will have less aromatization going on so I could have less chance of needing an ai?
> 
> For example if I need an AI on 140mg test p per week VS if I inject 20mg daily of test p (0.2ml) subq with slin pins.
> 
> In a perfect would would you think daily subq injections of test p would be the best option for cruising/trt?


 not always true, alot of guys get worse aromatization with more frequent injections.

no, i use test p e3d or only twice a week with best results.


----------



## darren.1987

cruise dosing of 125mg test e per week what nmol/l should that roughly put you on for a blood test?

I'm due a test tomorrow but they are testing for LH and FSH levels plus test levels..along with HDL/LDL and HCT

iv been B&C for 2 years with hcg on and off. liver values have been fine as has platelet count

wondering if I should wait another week to do the blood test so test levels are really low.

As LH and FSH will be shut down.. can't admit to steroid use due to insurance etc


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo what do you recommend as a dose of K2 mk7 along with d3? I'm sure you've said it somewhere but can't find it. I've seen anywhere from 100-320mcg per day for the k2.

Also some people suggest not ingesting at the same time, rather leaving 8 hrs or so between d3 and k2 but there are quite a few stacked tablets on the market with both d3 and k2 in one capsule. What's your thoughts on this?

Also any brands you recommend?

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> cruise dosing of 125mg test e per week what nmol/l should that roughly put you on for a blood test?
> 
> I'm due a test tomorrow but they are testing for LH and FSH levels plus test levels..along with HDL/LDL and HCT
> 
> iv been B&C for 2 years with hcg on and off. liver values have been fine as has platelet count
> 
> wondering if I should wait another week to do the blood test so test levels are really low.
> 
> As LH and FSH will be shut down.. can't admit to steroid use due to insurance etc


 13.8-24.3 nmol/l but it depends on your genetics, dosing of the oil, and when you last injected.

use steroidcalc.com to figure out how long you should wait before blood work.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo what do you recommend as a dose of K2 mk7 along with d3? I'm sure you've said it somewhere but can't find it. I've seen anywhere from 100-320mcg per day for the k2.
> 
> Also some people suggest not ingesting at the same time, rather leaving 8 hrs or so between d3 and k2 but there are quite a few stacked tablets on the market with both d3 and k2 in one capsule. What's your thoughts on this?
> 
> Also any brands you recommend?
> 
> thanks


 100-200 mcg daily with a fatty meal.

complete bullshit, you can take them together. that's not a thought, it's a fact.

brands i like are sports research (they have vit k solo and vit k/d combo) . now foods is great too.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> 13.8-24.3 nmol/l but it depends on your genetics, dosing of the oil, and when you last injected.
> 
> use steroidcalc.com to figure out how long you should wait before blood work.


 last injected 125mg 8 days ago.. will be 12 days from last injection when they do the bloods.

tried that site but highest mg release was 19.60? I'm assuming my test levels will be pretty low on the test after 12 days?


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> last injected 125mg 8 days ago.. will be 12 days from last injection when they do the bloods.
> 
> tried that site but highest mg release was 19.60? I'm assuming my test levels will be pretty low on the test after 12 days?


 definitely not, you need more time off.

give it 3 weeks before labs.


----------



## Pancake'

What do you feel personally is the best way to deal with a much bigger, taller, stronger opponent in regards to MMA sparring? or on the street.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you feel personally is the best way to deal with a much bigger, taller, stronger opponent in regards to MMA sparring? or on the street.


 too broad of a question, that depends on your strengths and their weakness.

some bigger opponents with KO power can get shutdown if you keep them on the ground, especially if they have a small gas tank but does the smaller fighter have the ground skill to put him away, etc.

If you're talking striking only, a smaller fighter needs to control distance and be an in-fighter to cancel out the longer fighter's jab and range. better footwork and headmovement to get inside and tear down the body, etc.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo sorry if this has been asked before but I'm just wondering about how you train because you obviously know your sh1t.

I know you like reverse pyramid training but what kind of routine/training split do you follow? What rep ranges and how many working sets do you prefer for each bodypart?

Sorry for long question but I'd be really interested in your response.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo sorry if this has been asked before but I'm just wondering about how you train because you obviously know your sh1t.
> 
> I know you like reverse pyramid training but what kind of routine/training split do you follow? What rep ranges and how many working sets do you prefer for each bodypart?
> 
> Sorry for long question but I'd be really interested in your response.
> 
> Thanks


 I like three or four day splits with one day of complete rest in between. Compound movements+isolation exercises. For a chest day you would do something like 3-5 sets of heavy bench, some sets of dumbbell incline bench and pec flys. I do that for every body part.

A good tip for people who don't know this is that if you want to safely hit your biceps with very heavy weight, get yourself a weight belt for weighted chin ups. So for arms, heavy weighetd chin ups + high rep bicep curls with dumbbells. Focusing on increasing weight and/or reps.

What matters most is increasing reps and weight, the routine really doesn't matter as long as you are getting strong, increasing your reps, getting enough rest and eating enough calories. Everyone has their own style of training, as long as you follow the fundamental principles, it all works.


----------



## Jordan08

What are your views on Fulvic acid and it's positive impact on Androgen receptor density, if there are any?


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I like three or four day splits with one day of complete rest in between. Compound movements+isolation exercises. For a chest day you would do something like 3-5 sets of heavy bench, some sets of dumbbell incline bench and pec flys. I do that for every body part.
> 
> A good tip for people who don't know this is that if you want to safely hit your biceps with very heavy weight, get yourself a weight belt for weighted chin ups. So for arms, heavy weighetd chin ups + high rep bicep curls with dumbbells. Focusing on increasing weight and/or reps.
> 
> What matters most is increasing reps and weight, the routine really doesn't matter as long as you are getting strong, increasing your reps, getting enough rest and eating enough calories. Everyone has their own style of training, as long as you follow the fundamental principles, it all works.


 Brilliant, thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> What are your views on Fulvic acid and it's positive impact on Androgen receptor density, if there are any?


 *bullshit *


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> *bullshit *


 https://instagram.com/deanstm?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=p44wbx9obxhc

He recommends it and his opinions are generally well taken. Works for trainedbyjp.com

Not comparing in any sense. What do you think of his work in general, if you know him?


----------



## Pancake'

Jordan08 said:


> https://instagram.com/deanstm?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=p44wbx9obxhc
> 
> He recommends it and his opinions are generally well taken. Works for trainedbyjp.com
> 
> Not comparing in any sense. What do you think of his work in general, if you know him?


 He doesn't feel the need for implementing HCG throughout cycle either.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> https://instagram.com/deanstm?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=p44wbx9obxhc
> 
> He recommends it and his opinions are generally well taken. Works for trainedbyjp.com
> 
> Not comparing in any sense. What do you think of his work in general, if you know him?


 don't know em but i seem him selling supplements. you should question that in itself. i'm not selling you anything but the truth and its free of charge.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> He doesn't feel the need for implementing HCG throughout cycle either.


 This guy is a quack then.

Running hcg through cycle is following basic physiology. stimulate leydig/sertolli cells to prevent atrophy. the basic and universal principle of "use it or lose it". PhD or MD in front of a name doesn't change the non-sense coming out of someone's mouth. It's up to the astute reader to seperate fact from bullshit no matter who's mouth it's coming from.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think about MT2 side effects?

it gave me a lot of molls that didn't go away ( used it 2 years ago ) , and made some other bigger which to me can be a sign of futur skin cancer .

I stopped it since but I d like to know what you think about that.

I remember reading on internet people saying it could prevent skin cancer , not sure if that's real but to me it seems like it's the contrary by giving you more molls and grow them bigger.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> i'm not selling you anything but the truth and its free of charge.


 You are my hero (no ****).


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about MT2 side effects?
> 
> it gave me a lot of molls that didn't go away ( used it 2 years ago ) , and made some other bigger which to me can be a sign of futur skin cancer .
> 
> I stopped it since but I d like to know what you think about that.
> 
> I remember reading on internet people saying it could prevent skin cancer , not sure if that's real but to me it seems like it's the contrary by giving you more molls and grow them bigger.


 Use as little as possible, i think it's fairly safe. If you can tan without it, then do so.

A light tan, maintained with x 2-3 per week tanning light can be good for you.

The darker and more frequent the tan, the higher the risk of faster skin aging and mutations that lead to cancer.


----------



## pma111

Just like zinc and vitamin d can help support natural testosterone levels,are there any equivalent supports for healthy thyroid levels. And from another angle what kind of issues or factors make you prone to suboptimal thyroid levels,e..g diet/supplements/lifestyle/other hormonal imbalances.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Just like zinc and vitamin d can help support natural testosterone levels,are there any equivalent supports for healthy thyroid levels. And from another angle what kind of issues or factors make you prone to suboptimal thyroid levels,e..g diet/supplements/lifestyle/other hormonal imbalances.


 Iodine/selenium ( thyroid hormone is actually made from iodine, the enzyme that converts to T4 to T3 is made from selenium )

Low thyroid:

Low carb intake/high soy intake/chronic low calories or dieting for very long periods of time/genetics


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Use as little as possible, i think it's fairly safe. If you can tan without it, then do so.
> 
> A light tan, maintained with x 2-3 per week tanning light can be good for you.
> 
> The darker and more frequent the tan, the higher the risk of faster skin aging and mutations that lead to cancer.


 Would you recommend someone with pale skin but still tans eventually uses sunbeds or is it not worth the risk?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Would you recommend someone with pale skin but still tans eventually uses sunbeds or is it not worth the risk?
> 
> Cheers


 I would get a light tan, just a little color. It won't hurt you.


----------



## zariph

Going to do 100mg mast e eod, I used steroidcalc and see it reaches peak in 14days, tho if I do 100mast E ED it will reach the leves of 100mast EOD in only about 4 days, so could I frontload it and do 100mg ED for few days and then switch to EOD day and then reached peak levels faster?


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I would get a light tan, just a little color. It won't hurt you.


 Brilliant thanks would two six minute sessions a week be ok in your opinion?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Going to do 100mg mast e eod, I used steroidcalc and see it reaches peak in 14days, tho if I do 100mast E ED it will reach the leves of 100mast EOD in only about 4 days, so could I frontload it and do 100mg ED for few days and then switch to EOD day and then reached peak levels faster?


 It really doesn't make a difference, the effects dont happen because you reach peak levels, they happen because masteron activates certain genes. It's called gene expression and it's why steroids take a few weeks to kick in. Like you saw, your levels get very high after the first injection, but nothing happens because the genes still aren't turned on.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Brilliant thanks would two six minute sessions a week be ok in your opinion?


 That i can't tell you, ask the people who work at the tanning salon. That's their area of expertise. Everyone's skin is different and the tanning beds can have different settings, etc.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> It really doesn't make a difference, the effects dont happen because you reach peak levels, they happen because masteron activates certain genes. It's called gene expression and it's why steroids take a few weeks to kick in. Like you saw, your levels get very high after the first injection, but nothing happens because the genes still aren't turned on.


 I assume that when you go from a cruise to a blast then the gens are already active so to speal or is it gear specific? Ie going from 200mg test to. 600mg test and deca would still take time for gene expression.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I assume that when you go from a cruise to a blast then the gens are already active so to speal or is it gear specific? Ie going from 200mg test to. 600mg test and deca would still take time for gene expression.


 *The gene expression goes away when you come off and is not as powerful when you lower dosage.*


----------



## Ferenor

What are your thoughts on grapefruit seed extract?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> *The gene expression goes away when you come off and is not as powerful when you lower dosage.*


 I've a holiday coming up so very low does. 200mg test cyp and 50mg winny which is plenty to cut on. When I'm back I've lined up a coach, getting pre blast, mid blast and after blast bloods. Blood pressure is currently optimal (just cardio controlling it so far) and I plan test, deca and an oral Kickstat for six weeks, then carry on the test and deca till week 12 before a switch to to test tren winny for 8 weeks the trt.. The last 4 weeks of the test tren winny is at a deficit with further cardio to trim up and show what the blast achieved.

I assume with 3*45 mins cardio on top of the five miles I walk per day, and the support max supp with tuddca and nav should be sufficient? BP being measured three times per week ans the aim for the 20 weeker is to get from 96kg and 14% (current stats) to approx 100kg and 10%. Not sure if that's too optimistic and if it is I should extend both the bukk.and cut?

No. Other health issues, sometimes dodgy gut


----------



## arbffgadm100

stewedw said:


> I've a holiday coming up so very low does. 200mg test cyp and 50mg winny which is plenty to cut on. When I'm back I've lined up a coach, getting pre blast, mid blast and after blast bloods. Blood pressure is currently optimal (just cardio controlling it so far) and I plan test, deca and an oral Kickstat for six weeks, then carry on the test and deca till week 12 before a switch to to test tren winny for 8 weeks the trt.. The last 4 weeks of the test tren winny is at a deficit with further cardio to trim up and show what the blast achieved.
> 
> I assume with 3*45 mins cardio on top of the five miles I walk per day, and the support max supp with tuddca and nav should be sufficient? BP being measured three times per week ans the aim for the 20 weeker is to get from 96kg and 14% (current stats) to approx 100kg and 10%. Not sure if that's too optimistic and if it is I should extend both the bukk.and cut?
> 
> No. Other health issues, sometimes dodgy gut


 96kg at 14% to 100kg at 10%?

So you want to add 7.5kg of pure muscle tissue, in 20 weeks, while cutting.

Absolutely zero chance, mate. Waaaaay offf.

(100x0.9)-(96x0.86)=7.5ish


----------



## stewedw

arbffgadm100 said:


> 96kg at 14% to 100kg at 10%?
> 
> So you want to add 7.5kg of pure muscle tissue, in 20 weeks, while cutting.
> 
> Absolutely zero chance, mate. Waaaaay offf.
> 
> (100x0.9)-(96x0.86)=7.5ish


 20 weeks to add 15 lbs muscle isn't that far fetched. Did it before, pics and calipers to shoe it.

96*4% is dropping 8lbs of fat. I did tbhos on two weeks dnp once lol.

It's the getting from the 91-62kg to 100kg at that level of leanness that may prove more difficult. So may the cut to lower first before is smart, but loads do oot and I have before. That's 14minths sicne tearing my rotator and trust me, I'm gaining very very easily and kesnkg as it stands the now so will keep you posted


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I've a holiday coming up so very low does. 200mg test cyp and 50mg winny which is plenty to cut on. When I'm back I've lined up a coach, getting pre blast, mid blast and after blast bloods. Blood pressure is currently optimal (just cardio controlling it so far) and I plan test, deca and an oral Kickstat for six weeks, then carry on the test and deca till week 12 before a switch to to test tren winny for 8 weeks the trt.. The last 4 weeks of the test tren winny is at a deficit with further cardio to trim up and show what the blast achieved.
> 
> I assume with 3*45 mins cardio on top of the five miles I walk per day, and the support max supp with tuddca and nav should be sufficient? BP being measured three times per week ans the aim for the 20 weeker is to get from 96kg and 14% (current stats) to approx 100kg and 10%. Not sure if that's too optimistic and if it is I should extend both the bukk.and cut?
> 
> No. Other health issues, sometimes dodgy gut


 Cutting without fat burners you can typically lose 1-2 lbs of fat per week or 0.5-1.5% body fat every 2 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> 20 weeks to add 15 lbs muscle isn't that far fetched. Did it before, pics and calipers to shoe it.
> 
> 96*4% is dropping 8lbs of fat. I did tbhos on two weeks dnp once lol.
> 
> It's the getting from the rhdn91-62kg to 100kg at that level of leanness that may prove more difficult. So may the cut to lower first before is smart, but loads do oot and I have before. That's 14minths sicne tearing my rotator and trust me, I'm gaining very very easily and kesnkg as it stands the now so will keep you posted


 This is going to depend on your experience level. A novice or intermediate can gain a lot of muscle, especially on AAS. An Advanced lifter will have to gain less mass.

To add to this @stewedw remember it's a marathon, not a race. It takes years to build a physique, Ronnie Coleman wasn't even top 10 for many years, but eventually he came out on top. Be happy building some muscle every year and staying relatively lean. Don't YO-YO like too many guys do; cycling, getting big, then shrinking, getting fat, rinse/repeat, the guys that do that should stop wasting their time and risking their health. That's my two cents.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ive got a tooth infection, i was wondering if anti biotics are bad for muscle growth? or an adverse effects for bodybuilding in any shape or form?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> ive got a tooth infection, i was wondering if anti biotics are bad for muscle growth? or an adverse effects for bodybuilding in any shape or form?


 No, especially since you would only take it for a little while. The only negative effect you might run into is diminished appetite. I've seen people lose a lot of wait taking some oral antibiotics due to very poor appetite, these were bad infections though that took some time to fight off.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> don't know em but i seem him selling supplements. you should question that in itself. i'm not selling you anything but the truth and its free of charge.


 We trust you mate. The number of questions you are getting must be giving you an idea that how much faith we have in your response.

Yup. He has launched a supplement line as well and his pct is somewhat different from what many suggests.

He advocates waiting for more than three weeks before starting the HCG therapy. I asked on one of his stories that why wait to introduce HCG, infact if you are not advocating the HCG usage during the cycle, it must be introduced as soon as possible instead of waiting for clearance. HCG job is to start the functioning of testicles not moving LH and FSH that you need to wait for the clearance. Never got any answer on this one from him.


----------



## Pancake'

Jordan08 said:


> We trust you mate. The number of questions you are getting must be giving you an idea that how much faith we have in your response.
> 
> Yup. He has launched a supplement line as well and his pct is somewhat different from what many suggests.
> 
> He advocates waiting for more than three weeks before starting the HCG therapy. I asked on one of his stories that why wait to introduce HCG, infact if you are not advocating the HCG usage during the cycle, it must be introduced as soon as possible instead of waiting for clearance. HCG job is to start the functioning of testicles not moving LH and FSH that you need to wait for the clearance. Never got any answer on this one from him.


 Agreed.

As mentioned the fact he's selling sups should alarm. which was my initial thought as well stumbling across his content. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but if a endo advertising supps?


----------



## Jordan08

Pancake' said:


> Agreed.
> 
> As mentioned the fact he's selling sups should alarm. which was my initial thought as well stumbling across his content. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but if a endo advertising supps?
> 
> View attachment 168009


 That is what he posted on stories as well. Let the test level comes low, you start to feel s**t and then introduce HCG..lol

Don't know mate whether he is an endo or not. His bio says org chemistry. Don't know what it is too. Got the fame thru JP. He is an author over there as well.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Jordan08 said:


> We trust you mate. The number of questions you are getting must be giving you an idea that how much faith we have in your response.
> 
> Yup. He has launched a supplement line as well and his pct is somewhat different from what many suggests.
> 
> He advocates waiting for more than three weeks before starting the HCG therapy. I asked on one of his stories that why wait to introduce HCG, infact if you are not advocating the HCG usage during the cycle, it must be introduced as soon as possible instead of waiting for clearance. HCG job is to start the functioning of testicles not moving LH and FSH that you need to wait for the clearance. Never got any answer on this one from him.


 Probably because he's explained it 100x on IG, he has a detailed thread on it on the JP forum, and there's a free 15-minute YT video explaining everything, too. I've spoken to Dean twice. He is a very smart man.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Jordan08 said:


> That is what he posted on stories as well. Let the test level comes low, you start to feel s**t and then introduce HCG..lol
> 
> Don't know mate whether he is an endo or not. His bio says org chemistry. Don't know what it is too. Got the fame thru JP. He is an author over there as well.


 Dean also chronicled his entire PCT (to father a child) and journey back to BB on the JP forum, compete with bloods and a very detailed account of what he did. Most of the people on IG parroting his "teaching" don't actually understand it--which the author in the quoted screenshot above eludes to.

It's not rocket science to wait until your exogenous test levels fall to the bottom end of the natural range or below, before starting PCT. Your body isn't going to start producing its own test when you've come off a gram or whatever two weeks earlier, and there's still enough floating about to keep you shut down. You should also be aware he is not against the use of HCG full-time in some situations, like mine for example.

We went through all this in a paid-for, 2-hours of Skype consult. I have like 6 pages of notes from that consult.

Whereas most people want free info through channels like IG where you can type what, 100 words or record a 10-second video? And then they wonder why they might not understand everything!!! An then they complain when a guy that has 10k followers doesn't respond to your DM. LOL.

Apply some critical thinking here, fellas. He's putting this out for free, through IG and etc. The supplement line has f**k all to do with anything. It's not like he is selling a PCT supplement. If you want to know exactly what he thinks about your specific situation, then cough up some £ and pay for a consult, or cough up half of that and join JP's forum for a year and read and ask as many questions as you like for yourself. Dean answers every single tag (like @ElChapo does) and often provides a s**t load of references when he presents a contrarian view, along with the caveat that you should think for yourself and are not under any obligation to agree with him!

I have no affiliation with Dean or JP or anyone else for that matter, before anyone pipes up; I just like the guy and he's helped me a lot.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Can Raloxifene produce bone / joints pain ?

I've been on it since 10 days and since I ve got some pains in my foot , elbow , shoulders and wrist .

I'm sure it's from raloxifene , but I've read that raloxifene increase LBM and was good for bone health ( in menopause women tho ) .

What do you think about it ?


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> We trust you mate. The number of questions you are getting must be giving you an idea that how much faith we have in your response.
> 
> Yup. He has launched a supplement line as well and his pct is somewhat different from what many suggests.
> 
> He advocates waiting for more than three weeks before starting the HCG therapy. I asked on one of his stories that why wait to introduce HCG, infact if you are not advocating the HCG usage during the cycle, it must be introduced as soon as possible instead of waiting for clearance. HCG job is to start the functioning of testicles not moving LH and FSH that you need to wait for the clearance. Never got any answer on this one from him.


 *Every salesman needs to sell you something "different" because everyone else is doing the same thing, so they switch up protocols, make up BS, and tell you this is the next best thing and I AM selling it, nobody else. The guy is a con man. *


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Agreed.
> 
> As mentioned the fact he's selling sups should alarm. which was my initial thought as well stumbling across his content. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but if a endo advertising supps?
> 
> View attachment 168009


 It says basic, but all i see is an overcomplication of things.

It's this simple: if you care about fertility, run hcg when you cycle. 1,000-1,500 mg per week.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Can Raloxifene produce bone / joints pain ?
> 
> I've been on it since 10 days and since I ve got some pains in my foot , elbow , shoulders and wrist .
> 
> I'm sure it's from raloxifene , but I've read that raloxifene increase LBM and was good for bone health ( in menopause women tho ) .
> 
> What do you think about it ?


 It's possible, never happened to me or anyone else on it. There's always a laundry list of side effects with any medication but most people don't get 90% of them. It's possible you got that.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

I am going to start an NPP and Test bulk for 8 to 12 weeks (depending on how i feel come the 8 week mark). Please note this will be my first time using Nandrolone.

At present i have been using around 200mg test e and 600mg primo per week without the requirement for an AI. E2 is in good range and no gyno sypmtoms.

When i start the NPP i want to keep the test @ 200mg and shoot 150mg NPP mon, wed and fri (450mg total per week).

some questions plz:

1. for a bulk do you think 450mg is a sufficient NPP dose along side the lower 200mg test?

2. am i right in saying that NPP automatises at a much lower rate than what testosterone does?

3. I know NPP is a 19 nor so i could get some gyno symptoms much like people do when using tren despite e2 being in normal range however in your experience, mg for mg does tren have a more intense affect on the nipple/gyno vs NPP or is it much the same?

4. I usually get some horrible acne when using Tren which is really the only bad side i get from it (other than bad cholesterol). I know this is going to be an individual thing but typically is NPP less harsh than Tren when it comes to acne? or is this just a try it and see answer?

5. Would proviron be a good addition to add to this NPP cycle to act as a mild AI, prevent "DECA dick" and possibly prevent some of the water associated with NPP? ill get bloods done but ideally i don't want to have to use an AI if a low dose test along with the NPP will keep E2 within range that prevents any gyno symptoms from occurring.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I am going to start an NPP and Test bulk for 8 to 12 weeks (depending on how i feel come the 8 week mark). Please note this will be my first time using Nandrolone.
> 
> At present i have been using around 200mg test e and 600mg primo per week without the requirement for an AI. E2 is in good range and no gyno sypmtoms.
> 
> When i start the NPP i want to keep the test @ 200mg and shoot 150mg NPP mon, wed and fri (450mg total per week).
> 
> some questions plz:
> 
> 1. for a bulk do you think 450mg is a sufficient NPP dose along side the lower 200mg test?
> 
> 2. am i right in saying that NPP automatises at a much lower rate than what testosterone does?
> 
> 3. I know NPP is a 19 nor so i could get some gyno symptoms much like people do when using tren despite e2 being in normal range however in your experience, mg for mg does tren have a more intense affect on the nipple/gyno vs NPP or is it much the same?
> 
> 4. I usually get some horrible acne when using Tren which is really the only bad side i get from it (other than bad cholesterol). I know this is going to be an individual thing but typically is NPP less harsh than Tren when it comes to acne? or is this just a try it and see answer?
> 
> 5. Would proviron be a good addition to add to this NPP cycle to act as a mild AI, prevent "DECA dick" and possibly prevent some of the water associated with NPP? ill get bloods done but ideally i don't want to have to use an AI if a low dose test along with the NPP will keep E2 within range that prevents any gyno symptoms from occurring.


 1- Depends on your experience level. It's a good dose, i would round it out to 500 mg and add an oral like winstrol or superdrol for the 8-12 weeks.

2- It does, however, it has it's own progestin effects that can cause gyno and decrease libido/erection hardness even with E2 at 0.

3-They are about the same for me, but everyone is different. I get gyno from both tren/npp. Both reversed completely multiple times with raloxifene.

4-NPP should cause less acne for most people.

5-If running NPP, i would make to carry cialis and raloxifine. This will cover you for ED and gyno you might run into. Proviron might help.

I would bump NPP to 500 mg and add winstrol 50 mg daily for 8-12 weeks or sdrol 20 mg daily. Would love to hear your results during and after, it would be a great cycle.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> 1- Depends on your experience level. It's a good dose, i would round it out to 500 mg and add an oral like winstrol or superdrol for the 8-12 weeks.
> 
> 2- It does, however, it has it's own progestin effects that can cause gyno and decrease libido/erection hardness even with E2 at 0.
> 
> 3-They are about the same for me, but everyone is different. I get gyno from both tren/npp. Both reversed completely multiple times with raloxifene.
> 
> 4-NPP should cause less acne for most people.
> 
> 5-If running NPP, i would make to carry cialis and raloxifine. This will cover you for ED and gyno you might run into. Proviron might help.
> 
> I would bump NPP to 500 mg and add winstrol 50 mg daily for 8-12 weeks or sdrol 20 mg daily. Would love to hear your results during and after, it would be a great cycle.


 I have winni, SD and a shed load of Rolax in my stash already :thumb .

I will prob do the NPP on its own with test for the first few weeks to see how i get on before adding in orals just to see how i get on with it.

Also how many lbs of water am i likely to be carrying when bulking with NPP in comparison to cruise dose of test?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> I have winni, SD and a shed load of Rolax in my stash already :thumb .
> 
> I will prob do the NPP on its own with test for the first few weeks to see how i get on before adding in orals just to see how i get on with it.
> 
> Also how many lbs of water am i likely to be carrying when bulking with NPP in comparison to cruise dose of test?


 NPP is dryer than deca, you won't know until you try it. It's not really bad, i would say as bad as test E at worst but probably better.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> NPP is dryer than deca, you won't know until you try it. It's not really bad, i would say as bad as test E at worst but probably better.


 good to know ill revert with my experience in a few months!


----------



## Imdone88

Could you help with these results?

This is me 4 weeks into sphinx rip 200. 4.5ml per weeks (testp, trena and mastp)

Bloods done this week.

Test levels seem far too low given the 450mg test p a week??


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It really doesn't make a difference, the effects dont happen because you reach peak levels, they happen because masteron activates certain genes. It's called gene expression and it's why steroids take a few weeks to kick in. Like you saw, your levels get very high after the first injection, but nothing happens because the genes still aren't turned on.


 okay, when would mast E usually kick in, I mean when should I see/feel a difference.

Completely different questions but how likely are "pharmagrade" stuff to be fake when ordering online? Im not sure if I should go with pharmagrade aromasin or order the sellers own aromasin, which he says he has tested to meet label claims


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> Could you help with these results?
> 
> This is me 4 weeks into sphinx rip 200. 4.5ml per weeks (testp, trena and mastp)
> 
> Bloods done this week.
> 
> Test levels seem far too low given the 450mg test p a week??
> 
> View attachment 168019


 Yes, too low. When did you inject and draw though?

What's the concentration per mL?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay, when would mast E usually kick in, I mean when should I see/feel a difference.
> 
> Completely different questions but how likely are "pharmagrade" stuff to be fake when ordering online? Im not sure if I should go with pharmagrade aromasin or order the sellers own aromasin, which he says he has tested to meet label claims


 Indian online pharmacies are legit if you use the right ones.

Mast E will take 3-4 weeks to kick in. Mast is subtle and doesn't do a lot though.


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> Yes, too low. When did you inject and draw though?
> 
> What's the concentration per mL?


 Drew blood 2 days after last injection.

100mg test p per ml

50mg tren a per ml

50mg mast per ml


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> Drew blood 2 days after last injection.
> 
> 100mg test p per ml
> 
> 50mg tren a per ml
> 
> 50mg mast per ml


 That's a very high concentration per mL even for a master brewer...

What's your injection frequency?


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

if I'm injecting HGH 3x a week (normally post workout m/w/f) but say I cant hit the gym on a particular wednesday, should still pin my HGH on the wednesday or if I go to the gym thursday and friday should I do m/thurs/f that week?

I am bulking up right now, also on AAS


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> That's a very high concentration per mL even for a master brewer...
> 
> What's your injection frequency?


 Most upk ugl labs short ester rips are 200 or 225 (75/75/75) and pip free.

Long rips are 375-400, with some now favouring lower test in them and higher tren and mast.


----------



## bonacris

Jordan08 said:


> We trust you mate. The number of questions you are getting must be giving you an idea that how much faith we have in your response.
> 
> Yup. He has launched a supplement line as well and his pct is somewhat different from what many suggests.
> 
> He advocates waiting for more than three weeks before starting the HCG therapy. I asked on one of his stories that why wait to introduce HCG, infact if you are not advocating the HCG usage during the cycle, it must be introduced as soon as possible instead of waiting for clearance. HCG job is to start the functioning of testicles not moving LH and FSH that you need to wait for the clearance. Never got any answer on this one from him.


 You trust some nameless faceless guy on an internet forum.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> if I'm injecting HGH 3x a week (normally post workout m/w/f) but say I cant hit the gym on a particular wednesday, should still pin my HGH on the wednesday or if I go to the gym thursday and friday should I do m/thurs/f that week?
> 
> I am bulking up right now, also on AAS


 Don't overthink things, just take the GH. Remember, muscle growth happens on rest days, not training days.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Most upk ugl labs short ester rips are 200 or 225 (75/75/75) and pip free.
> 
> Long rips are 375-400, with some now favouring lower test in them and higher tren and mast.


 You don't know that the label is accurate though. As you can see, his sphinx seems to be underdosed. 200 mg is a lot of short ester to hold in solution, it's possible but it's a lot.


----------



## Imdone88

ElChapo said:


> You don't know that the label is accurate though. As you can see, his sphinx seems to be underdosed. 200 mg is a lot of short ester to hold in solution, it's possible but it's a lot.


 Sphinx has a great rep on here.

My bloods seem to state otherwise for their rip blend anyway. Very poor!

I injected every 2 days.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Cissus the best supplements for joints ? I've just got some and I remember months ago it helped a lot ; I was also taking omega 3 , msm glucosamine vitamin K2 tho


----------



## pma111

Does rogaine help with hair loss by the same kind of mechanism as nizoral,e.g lower the impact of dht on the hair folicles. Are the two equivalents or is one more powerful than the other?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Cissus the best supplements for joints ? I've just got some and I remember months ago it helped a lot ; I was also taking omega 3 , msm glucosamine vitamin K2 tho


 Meriva Curcumin, I like the jarrow brand. 1-2 grams daily with a meal.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Does rogaine help with hair loss by the same kind of mechanism as nizoral,e.g lower the impact of dht on the hair folicles. Are the two equivalents or is one more powerful than the other?


 No, the mechanism of rogaine/minoxidil is through increases in nitric oxide and circulation to the scalp. Nizoral blocks androgens in the hair follicles.

There's a study that shows they are pretty equivalent. There are anecdotes of rogaine causing skin aging/premature wrinkles in people. I prefer nizoral.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo just started trenbolone acetate (2 weeks ago) at 200mg/week, injecting 60mg every other day. I have started going Hypoglycemic two times already both times about an hour/hour and a half after a meal. Both times was steak and sweet potato. As sweet potato has such a low glycemic index I would have thought it would be the least of a culprit to turning hypo. Is there anything that can be done to prevent this? And do you know why it happens? I ended up eating about 10 celebrations (chocolates) just because the cravings were so bad and my girlfriend had a box of them lol.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> No, the mechanism of rogaine/minoxidil is through increases in nitric oxide and circulation to the scalp. Nizoral blocks androgens in the hair follicles.
> 
> There's a study that shows they are pretty equivalent. There are anecdotes of rogaine causing skin aging/premature wrinkles in people. I prefer nizoral.


 Interesting. Does that mean stuff like cialis & pine bark could be just as effective as rogaine from that angle,if its just circulation support.


----------



## stewedw

Thoughts on this? Shocked me, Some trained twelve weeks and gained nothing....

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.facebook.com/126894880818149/posts/1163201633854130/


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Thoughts on this? Shocked me, Some trained twelve weeks and gained nothing....
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.facebook.com/126894880818149/posts/1163201633854130/


 Was their macro nutrient intake tracked and their caloric intake?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Interesting. Does that mean stuff like cialis & pine bark could be just as effective as rogaine from that angle,if its just circulation support.


 Not necessarily since they aren't topical/focus on that region.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo just started trenbolone acetate (2 weeks ago) at 200mg/week, injecting 60mg every other day. I have started going Hypoglycemic two times already both times about an hour/hour and a half after a meal. Both times was steak and sweet potato. As sweet potato has such a low glycemic index I would have thought it would be the least of a culprit to turning hypo. Is there anything that can be done to prevent this? And do you know why it happens? I ended up eating about 10 celebrations (chocolates) just because the cravings were so bad and my girlfriend had a box of them lol.


 No idea why it happens, most likely trenbolone increasing insulin's effect or the sensitivity of the cells to it. Only thing you can do is keep snacks on hand, granola/protein bars are good.


----------



## stewedw

His reply.

Given the large sample size, they didn't control intake. They did have some decent exclusion criteria though. "Men and women were excluded if they used medications known to affect skeletal muscle such as corticosteroids; had any restriction of activity; had chronic medical conditions such as diabetes; had metal implants in arms, eyes, head, brain, neck, or heart that would prohibit MRI testing; had performed strength training or employment requiring repetitive use of the arms within the prior 12 months; consumed on average more than two alcoholic drinks daily; or had used dietary supplements reported to build muscle size/ strength or cause weight gain such as protein supplements, creatine, or androgenic precursors."


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> His reply.
> 
> Given the large sample size, they didn't control intake. They did have some decent exclusion criteria though. "Men and women were excluded if they used medications known to affect skeletal muscle such as corticosteroids; had any restriction of activity; had chronic medical conditions such as diabetes; had metal implants in arms, eyes, head, brain, neck, or heart that would prohibit MRI testing; had performed strength training or employment requiring repetitive use of the arms within the prior 12 months; consumed on average more than two alcoholic drinks daily; or had used dietary supplements reported to build muscle size/ strength or cause weight gain such as protein supplements, creatine, or androgenic precursors."


 It's a poor study without tracking caloric intake. There is a strong genetic component skeletal muscle growth, however, you will still get gains if you eat and train right.


----------



## bonacris

ElChapo said:


> *Every salesman needs to sell you something "different" because everyone else is doing the same thing, so they switch up protocols, make up BS, and tell you this is the next best thing and I AM selling it, nobody else. The guy is a con man. *


 What is he selling? He puts all this info out there for free. Backed up with evidence both scientific and from people he has worked with.


----------



## Sen

arbffgadm100 said:


> Dean also chronicled his entire PCT (to father a child) and journey back to BB on the JP forum, compete with bloods and a very detailed account of what he did. Most of the people on IG parroting his "teaching" don't actually understand it--which the author in the quoted screenshot above eludes to.
> 
> It's not rocket science to wait until your exogenous test levels fall to the bottom end of the natural range or below, before starting PCT. Your body isn't going to start producing its own test when you've come off a gram or whatever two weeks earlier, and there's still enough floating about to keep you shut down. You should also be aware he is not against the use of HCG full-time in some situations, like mine for example.
> 
> We went through all this in a paid-for, 2-hours of Skype consult. I have like 6 pages of notes from that consult.
> 
> Whereas most people want free info through channels like IG where you can type what, 100 words or record a 10-second video? And then they wonder why they might not understand everything!!! An then they complain when a guy that has 10k followers doesn't respond to your DM. LOL.
> 
> Apply some critical thinking here, fellas. He's putting this out for free, through IG and etc. The supplement line has f**k all to do with anything. It's not like he is selling a PCT supplement. If you want to know exactly what he thinks about your specific situation, then cough up some £ and pay for a consult, or cough up half of that and join JP's forum for a year and read and ask as many questions as you like for yourself. Dean answers every single tag (like @ElChapo does) and often provides a s**t load of references when he presents a contrarian view, along with the caveat that you should think for yourself and are not under any obligation to agree with him!
> 
> I have no affiliation with Dean or JP or anyone else for that matter, before anyone pipes up; I just like the guy and he's helped me a lot.


 He doesn't have anything to do with that supplement company. He's just said on his IG story (well, yesterday) and even if he did I don't see why it matters some people actually bring products out that do work and help

I'd probably trust dean over most people online. He seems to know his stuff from the bits I have watched. Unfortunately I get bored really quick watching his stories. No offence to him if he reads this! I just prefer quick facts rather than 10 minutes getting to the actual point. Again, no offence to him intended, I get that people like to see studies and evidence etc.


----------



## Sen

youve probably seen this @Jordan08


----------



## arbffgadm100

Sen said:


> He doesn't have anything to do with that supplement company. He's just said on his IG story (well, yesterday) and even if he did I don't see why it matters some people actually bring products out that do work and help
> 
> I'd probably trust dean over most people online. He seems to know his stuff from the bits I have watched. Unfortunately I get bored really quick watching his stories. No offence to him if he reads this! I just prefer quick facts rather than 10 minutes getting to the actual point. Again, no offence to him intended, I get that people like to see studies and evidence etc.


 I know mate. It's just most people don't know that: they just "assume".


----------



## zariph

I not sure but I think I read somewhere that you shouldnt take ralox or nolva when on NPP? Thinking of running dbol+npp but Im not sure if I can add ralox or nolva for gyno prevention?


----------



## TURBS

zariph said:


> I not sure but I think I read somewhere that you shouldnt take ralox or nolva when on NPP? Thinking of running dbol+npp but Im not sure if I can add ralox or nolva for gyno prevention?


 No it's not that you shouldn't take, it's just that npp/deca will produce progesterone gyno and nolva won't help that. But it will still stop the oestrogen binding from dbol.


----------



## zariph

TERBO said:


> No it's not that you shouldn't take, it's just that npp/deca will produce progesterone gyno and nolva won't help that. But it will still stop the oestrogen binding from dbol/test.


 Ah okay, but I thought ralox/nolva stopped gyno no matter whether its from prolactin or estrogen?


----------



## TURBS

zariph said:


> Ah okay, but I thought ralox/nolva stopped gyno no matter whether its from prolactin or estrogen?


 Pretty sure it doesn't fix prolactin related, need prami or caber for that


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> I not sure but I think I read somewhere that you shouldnt take ralox or nolva when on NPP? Thinking of running dbol+npp but Im not sure if I can add ralox or nolva for gyno prevention?


 bullshit, zero reasoning for this.

However, nolva/ralox don't always work on NPP/tren gyno WHILE you take the NPP/TREN. You have to take it once you come off for best results.


----------



## ElChapo

TERBO said:


> No it's not that you shouldn't take, it's just that npp/deca will produce progesterone gyno and nolva won't help that. But it will still stop the oestrogen binding from dbol.


 Nolvadex WILL reverse NPP/TREN gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

TERBO said:


> Pretty sure it doesn't fix prolactin related, need prami or caber for that


 Prami or caber don't work on gynecomastia. Raloxifene/nolvadex will reverse all types of gynecomastia including pubertal, progestin, etc.


----------



## TURBS

ElChapo said:


> Prami or caber don't work on gynecomastia. Raloxifene/nolvadex will reverse all types of gynecomastia including pubertal, progestin, etc.


 Different from what I've read but fair enough.


----------



## TrenBalonie

TERBO said:


> Different from what I've read but fair enough.


 From my own experience it's right.

I have pubertal gyno on left nipple (you can feel it but I can see it a but only if I go 5-6%, which I did once in my life), it's strange since I can't cure it with Ralo/Nolvadex, I think that's because I have it from too many years.

Anyway was using Test+NPP+ Tren+ Mast and on right side gyno was growing... (Never had gyno on this side and usually broscience says it's from progestins effects).

Long story short bought Nolvadex from pharmacy (here guys it costs almost nothing), after 14 pills and adjusting my AI, gyno gone completely. Finished the box ofc.

Tbh if you can get your glands removed for free, do it guys. I think that 7/10 guys I know that use AAS have gyno problems and 80% of them have it from puberty.

Usually I use Raloxifene/Nolvadex with Anadrol all the time since I get gyno from it even if my e2 is between 30-40.

At 20pg/ml my gyno is like a little pea, barely you can feel it.

P.S. if you have access to Raloxifene use it, it's more effective.


----------



## Jordan08

Sen said:


> youve probably seen this @Jordan08
> 
> View attachment 168037
> 
> 
> View attachment 168039
> 
> 
> View attachment 168041
> 
> 
> View attachment 168043
> 
> 
> View attachment 168045
> 
> 
> View attachment 168047
> 
> 
> View attachment 168049


 Thanks for it @Sen

But i understand that he is contradicting himself here or i have misunderstood him.

Couple of points here, Firslty, he stated that use of HCG is unclear when the test levels are super high. Ok, if he says

Secondly, He again stated that recovery depends on healthy HPTA. HPTA is suppressed anyway whether you use HCG on cycle or not. When the HCG is used it mimics LH so basically we are replacing the GnRH LH secretion but HPTA is still not functioning. Using HCG on cycle has nothing to do HPTA and HCG is just used to keep the testicles active. HCG use in PCT would do exactly what it would do when used on cycle?. Why delay it by using after coming off?

@swole troll @ElChapoWould like to hear you out as well. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Thanks for it @Sen
> 
> But i understand that he is contradicting himself here or i have misunderstood him.
> 
> Couple of points here, Firslty, he stated that use of HCG is unclear when the test levels are super high. Ok, if he says
> 
> Secondly, He again stated that recovery depends on healthy HPTA. HPTA is suppressed anyway whether you use HCG on cycle or not. When the HCG is used it mimics LH so basically we are replacing the GnRH LH secretion but HPTA is still not functioning. Using HCG on cycle has nothing to do HPTA and HCG is just used to keep the testicles active. HCG use in PCT would do exactly what it would do when used on cycle?. Why delay it by using after coming off?
> 
> @swole troll @ElChapoWould like to hear you out as well. Thanks in advance.


 *Like all things in life, the best things are SIMPLE.*

*You run HCG or HMG on cycle to keep the leydig cells active. Use it or lose it applies here. We are keeping the testicles ON, so they don't atrophy even though we are taking AAS. Once we stop taking AAS, we discontinue HCG/HMG and use clomiphene to stimulate endogenous gonadotropin production (LH/FSH) with the hopes of kickstarting our own HPTA from the top down. *

*SIMPLE and EASY.*


----------



## swole troll

Jordan08 said:


> Thanks for it @Sen
> 
> But i understand that he is contradicting himself here or i have misunderstood him.
> 
> Couple of points here, Firslty, he stated that use of HCG is unclear when the test levels are super high. Ok, if he says
> 
> Secondly, He again stated that recovery depends on healthy HPTA. HPTA is suppressed anyway whether you use HCG on cycle or not. When the HCG is used it mimics LH so basically we are replacing the GnRH LH secretion but HPTA is still not functioning. Using HCG on cycle has nothing to do HPTA and HCG is just used to keep the testicles active. HCG use in PCT would do exactly what it would do when used on cycle?. Why delay it by using after coming off?
> 
> @swole troll @ElChapoWould like to hear you out as well. Thanks in advance.


 I think it's an argument for the sake of it

Scally although a little dated in his protocol not so long ago (he has since modified his power pct) has worked with thousands of hypogonadal men and had great success with a large percentage of them

He always reccomends for those that will use to concurrently use hcg for the reasons you mentioned, the power PCT is intended for those that have not done so and as a result their testicles have atrophied

Why wouldn't you want to keep your balls from atrophying on cycle... it's just one less issue to deal with when you do get your hypothalamus and pituitary back online


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> *Like all things in life, the best things are SIMPLE.*
> 
> *You run HCG or HMG on cycle to keep the leydig cells active. Use it or lose it applies here. We are keeping the testicles ON, so they don't atrophy even though we are taking AAS. Once we stop taking AAS, we discontinue HCG/HMG and use clomiphene to stimulate endogenous gonadotropin production (LH/FSH) with the hopes of kickstarting our own HPTA from the top down. *
> 
> *SIMPLE and EASY.*


 What dose of HCG do you recommend on cycle mate?


----------



## Vinny

swole troll said:


> I think it's an argument for the sake of it
> 
> Scally although a little dated in his protocol not so long ago (he has since modified his power pct) has worked with thousands of hypogonadal men and had great success with a large percentage of them
> 
> He always reccomends for those that will use to concurrently use hcg for the reasons you mentioned, the power PCT is intended for those that have not done so and as a result their testicles have atrophied
> 
> Why wouldn't you want to keep your balls from atrophying on cycle... it's just one less issue to deal with when you do get your hypothalamus and pituitary back online


 A little off topic.

I signed up to brutalmuscle website for a month, to see what's on there. (Not a great deal at the moment)

Anyways, Dave Crosland put up a video about PCT. And right at the end, he mentions using Triporelin and references thag very popular study. Triporelin seems to be getting more heat again, it's that time of year.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> bullshit, zero reasoning for this.
> 
> However, nolva/ralox don't always work on NPP/tren gyno WHILE you take the NPP/TREN. You have to take it once you come off for best results.


 Thx! How come it wont always work while taking npp?


----------



## Jordan08

Can prami cause insomnia?


----------



## Vinny

@El Chapo

Is there any way of knowing if Deca/NPP are causing digestive issues?

It's my thrid cycle using Deca/NPP, I'm 2 weeks in on 600mg Test, 450mg NPP and 800mg.

And my stomach is bloated, no appetite at all.

I know the easy way is to drop thr NPP and see what happens, but is there any definite way to know?

Looking at getting a liver test done soon.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> What dose of HCG do you recommend on cycle mate?


 1,500 IU per week.

split x 2-3 per week.

Only if you care about fertility or ever plan on coming off. If you are blast/cruising for life, it's irrelevant.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx! How come it wont always work while taking npp?


 It just doesn't work as good, probably because the progestin is too strong for the SERM to overcome.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Can prami cause insomnia?


 Yes


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Is there any way of knowing if Deca/NPP are causing digestive issues?
> 
> It's my thrid cycle using Deca/NPP, I'm 2 weeks in on 600mg Test, 450mg NPP and 800mg.
> 
> And my stomach is bloated, no appetite at all.
> 
> I know the easy way is to drop thr NPP and see what happens, but is there any definite way to know?
> 
> Looking at getting a liver test done soon.


 This can happen on AAS, especially the progestins like tren/npp. It's part of the game.

Suck it up and keep going.


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> This can happen on AAS, especially the progestins like tren/npp. It's part of the game.
> 
> Suck it up and keep going.


 Was worried you'd say that. Just can't eat and not growing.

Think I'm going to drop the NPP and just try Test and EQ. As on my first cycle I could eat hell of a lot better on just test and im thinking just Test and being able to eat will be better than test and NPP but not being able to eat.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Was worried you'd say that. Just can't eat and not growing.
> 
> Think I'm going to drop the NPP and just try Test and EQ. As on my first cycle I could eat hell of a lot better on just test and im thinking just Test and being able to eat will be better than test and NPP but not being able to eat.


 Some guys don't touch tren or keep the dose between 200-300 mg due to digestion/appetite problems. Tren E gives me horrific gastro reflux.

Winstrol is a very good stand-in for NPP or tren.

But yeah, you NEED food to grow. No amount of AAS or training will grow you without food unless you are still in the novice-intermediate phase.


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> Some guys don't touch tren or keep the dose between 200-300 mg due to digestion/appetite problems. Tren E gives me horrific gastro reflux.
> 
> Winstrol is a very good stand-in for NPP or tren.
> 
> But yeah, you NEED food to grow. No amount of AAS or training will grow you without food unless you are still in the novice-intermediate phase.


 Will try and see what happens, I imagine the NPP will clear enough within a week to see the difference.

I did try Winstrol for about 1.5 weeks and seemed okay on it while I was at the end of losing some fat.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo can npp be dosed at 200mg and have no pip and never crash? Southern ghost was pippy and used to crash all the time but im using another lab and not sure if its 200mg per ml


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Since it's GH peptide, you might as well throw in the mk 667.


 In adding the mk 667 to the GH peptide stack, any worries with gyno/prolactin/cortisol on 10 mg mk 667 daily?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo






This guy claims that oral anavar is not metabolised in the liver but instead the kidney, therefore not very hepatotoxic if at all. Is this possible?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo can npp be dosed at 200mg and have no pip and never crash? Southern ghost was pippy and used to crash all the time but im using another lab and not sure if its 200mg per ml


 Yeah, i used SG NPP. The batch i used was very smooth/zero pip. I sent it to a lab for testing and it was definitely NPP.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> In adding the mk 667 to the GH peptide stack, any worries with gyno/prolactin/cortisol on 10 mg mk 667 daily?


 Never seen anyone have that problem.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy claims that oral anavar is not metabolised in the liver but instead the kidney, therefore not very hepatotoxic if at all. Is this possible?


 Anavar is very mild, but bodybuilder doses can cause hepatotoxicity. You can pop up tons of people's labs on VAR who have elevated AST/ALT.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, i used SG NPP. The batch i used was very smooth/zero pip. I sent it to a lab for testing and it was definitely NPP.


 Think you misunderstood my question.. i have used sg and rate it very highly. The lab im using for npp now is also dosed at 200mg/ml however it has never crashed (like sg). So is it possible to be dosed at 200mg without crashing or giving pip?

I always thought for it to be dosed that high it would crash like the sg one and have to be reheated at some point?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Think you misunderstood my question.. i have used sg and rate it very highly. The lab im using for npp now is also dosed at 200mg/ml however it has never crashed (like sg). So is it possible to be dosed at 200mg without crashing or giving pip?
> 
> I always thought for it to be dosed that high it would crash like the sg one and have to be reheated at some point?


 yes it can hold


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

What is the protocol with adex and nolva with regards to nolva affecting the ability of adex? Currently running a small cutting cycle of 150mg test e, 200 mast e a week with 0.25 adex straight after jab and using nolva 20mg a day for 12 weeks for some gyno from previous cycles. Going to use anavar from next week at 50mg a day for 6-8 weeks. I have read a few threads and articles not just on here but other forums that nolva reduces the effect of the adex on estrogen?

Whats your thoughts on this and would aromasin be much better when running such a low dose test?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> What is the protocol with adex and nolva with regards to nolva affecting the ability of adex? Currently running a small cutting cycle of 150mg test e, 200 mast e a week with 0.25 adex straight after jab and using nolva 20mg a day for 12 weeks for some gyno from previous cycles. Going to use anavar from next week at 50mg a day for 6-8 weeks. I have read a few threads and articles not just on here but other forums that nolva reduces the effect of the adex on estrogen?
> 
> Whats your thoughts on this and would aromasin be much better when running such a low dose test?


 It's not a problem to worry about. That's a good dosage to start with but it depends on how much you aromatize. Some guys have low or normal E2 on 150 mg test E, others have it very high.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> It's not a problem to worry about. That's a good dosage to start with but it depends on how much you aromatize. Some guys have low or normal E2 on 150 mg test E, others have it very high.


 Ah right ok brilliant, im getting bloods next week(5 weeks into 12 week cycle) to see how things are going and will adjust the adex from there if needed, I've never used aromasin but read its much harder to come back if you crash your e2 with it because of its suicidal approach to e2, that why i stick with adex and have done with previous cycles but i think i had bunk adex on my last blast hence the minor gyno.

thank you advice mate, will carry on until bloods determine whether to change anything!


----------



## Imdone88

Can you help please?

Recently posted some blood work from sphinx rip blend which showed my test in natural levels, despite being on 500mg test p a week and 300mg tren a.

However my e2 was also in normal range,according to my results.

Anyway, after some reading I have all the signs of low e2. Dry lips, dry mouth, tired as f**k, lethargic, can't stay awake, moody, irritable, no energy to lift at the gym, just feel weak, zero sex drive. Unless Mrs iniates it, my Mrs will speak to me and it just fu**ing annoys me.

However....i have quite a lump under my left nipple which has been getting sore at the same time. I'm using .5mg adex every 3 days and 40mg nolva Ed too, how can it get worse if I feel like I have low e2, but med checks says it's normal....

My prolactin was showing as crashed on my blood results.

My question being, is can all my symptoms be related to crashed prolactin?

Not sure how medichecks says my E2 is in normal range with such symptoms. I've always doubted how accurate medichecks are.

Totally lost and fed up to be honest. Can't tell what's going on, and blood results are any better help at the minute.


----------



## MrBishi

Imdone88 said:


> Can you help please?
> 
> Recently posted some blood work from sphinx rip blend which showed my test in natural levels, despite being on 500mg test p a week and 300mg tren a.
> 
> However my e2 was also in normal range,according to my results.
> 
> Anyway, after some reading I have all the signs of low e2. Dry lips, dry mouth, tired as f**k, lethargic, can't stay awake, moody, irritable, no energy to lift at the gym, just feel weak, zero sex drive. Unless Mrs iniates it, my Mrs will speak to me and it just fu**ing annoys me.
> 
> However....i have quite a lump under my left nipple which has been getting sore at the same time. I'm using .5mg adex every 3 days and 40mg nolva Ed too, how can it get worse if I feel like I have low e2, but med checks says it's normal....
> 
> My prolactin was showing as crashed on my blood results.
> 
> My question being, is can all my symptoms be related to crashed prolactin?
> 
> Not sure how medichecks says my E2 is in normal range with such symptoms. I've always doubted how accurate medichecks are.
> 
> Totally lost and fed up to be honest. Can't tell what's going on, and blood results are any better help at the minute.


 You haven't mentioned what/if youve taken anything to crash your prolactin.


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo do you know the exact reason for tren, deca and some orals causing acid reflux etc?


----------



## Imdone88

MrBishi said:


> You haven't mentioned what/if youve taken anything to crash your prolactin.


 Caber. Blood results show my prolactin very low. Which will be caused by using too much caber.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Ah right ok brilliant, im getting bloods next week(5 weeks into 12 week cycle) to see how things are going and will adjust the adex from there if needed, I've never used aromasin but read its much harder to come back if you crash your e2 with it because of its suicidal approach to e2, that why i stick with adex and have done with previous cycles but i think i had bunk adex on my last blast hence the minor gyno.
> 
> thank you advice mate, will carry on until bloods determine whether to change anything!


 Nolvadex/Ralox can pop up as E2 on blood work.


----------



## pma111

Bar the obvious (lack of calories burned and subsequent more likely to store fat) what other kind of health issues does a sedentary lifestyle/no cardio make you prone too and why is that. Trying to kick some family members into shape with some risks & benefits/home truths.


----------



## ElChapo

Imdone88 said:


> Can you help please?
> 
> Recently posted some blood work from sphinx rip blend which showed my test in natural levels, despite being on 500mg test p a week and 300mg tren a.
> 
> However my e2 was also in normal range,according to my results.
> 
> Anyway, after some reading I have all the signs of low e2. Dry lips, dry mouth, tired as f**k, lethargic, can't stay awake, moody, irritable, no energy to lift at the gym, just feel weak, zero sex drive. Unless Mrs iniates it, my Mrs will speak to me and it just fu**ing annoys me.
> 
> However....i have quite a lump under my left nipple which has been getting sore at the same time. I'm using .5mg adex every 3 days and 40mg nolva Ed too, how can it get worse if I feel like I have low e2, but med checks says it's normal....
> 
> My prolactin was showing as crashed on my blood results.
> 
> My question being, is can all my symptoms be related to crashed prolactin?
> 
> Not sure how medichecks says my E2 is in normal range with such symptoms. I've always doubted how accurate medichecks are.
> 
> Totally lost and fed up to be honest. Can't tell what's going on, and blood results are any better help at the minute.


 Some of those symptoms can be from tren, but if you are taking bunk AAS, all bets are off. You can't know what's in the vial.

Nolvadex will work for gyno but you need to be patient and give it 6-12 weeks at least.

There aren't really symptoms of low prolactin.


----------



## Sam R

Imdone88 said:


> . Unless Mrs iniates it, my Mrs will speak to me and it just fu**ing annoys me.


 I have this problem year round mate, wish I could blame low estrogen but it's just her presence that's the issue unfortunately... lol


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo do you know the exact reason for tren, deca and some orals causing acid reflux etc?


 Possibly progestin effect from tren/deca, a lot of pregnant women have issues with gastric refux/digesiton due to hormonal changes.

As for the orals, i'm not sure.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Bar the obvious (lack of calories burned and subsequent more likely to store fat) what other kind of health issues does a sedentary lifestyle/no cardio make you prone too and why is that. Trying to kick some family members into shape with some risks & benefits/home truths.


 Anything and everything. Depression, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Being sedentary and fat are the two most common risk factors for disease followed by alcohol and cigarette usage.

Being fat is a risk factor for cancer, it increases inflammation in the body.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Is nizoral twice a day too much for hair loss prevention?


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo

Been reading about the benefits of Cialis taken every day but on the internet there are mixed opinions about dosages and benefits ratio on those dosages, I've read about benefits such as help for man with ed of course, but also prostrate benefits, better blood pressure etc.

I'd like if you could give us a breakdown of this dosages taken every day and what benefits are generally to expect:

2.5mg

5mg

10mg

20mg


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is nizoral twice a day too much for hair loss prevention?


 Yeah, once daily is already a lot. If you wanna go crazy, use the shampoo daily and apply the cream to hairline/crown afterwards.


----------



## Pancake'

Do you believe X Rays to be harmful?


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, once daily is already a lot. If you wanna go crazy, use the shampoo daily and apply the cream to hairline/crown afterwards.


 Tried finding the cream - the only one i found is one for athletes foot but it says the main ingredient is ketokonozale (same as the nizoral) so will this be fine for using on my head?

Last question - would you choose the keto cream over regaine foam?


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Been reading about the benefits of Cialis taken every day but on the internet there are mixed opinions about dosages and benefits ratio on those dosages, I've read about benefits such as help for man with ed of course, but also prostrate benefits, better blood pressure etc.
> 
> I'd like if you could give us a breakdown of this dosages taken every day and what benefits are generally to expect:
> 
> 2.5mg
> 
> 5mg
> 
> 10mg
> 
> 20mg


 5 mg daily is the full strength dose for ED, it's overkill for most guys. At this dose, headaches, congestion, etc are more likely.

20 mg every 3 days is equivalent to the 5 mg daily, it's meant for people with real ED like older men or people with circulation problems affection erections (diabetes, PVD, etc)

For a healthy male who wants to enhance circulation/endothelial health, erection strength, etc 10-20 mg per WEEK is enough. You can take 5-10 mg twice a week for the benefits with minimal risk of sides. If your erections are already good, 5 mg per week even works too.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Do you believe X Rays to be harmful?


 Too many yes, once in a while you should be fine.


----------



## aperson

Hi @ElChapo ,

I need advice. For the past 2-3 months I've been having low libido, no interest in sex, losing erection mid sex and hairloss(unusual for me) symptoms.

I've been on a cruise (200mg of 'Test400***' /wk) for the past month.

Before going on a cruise I did a 16 week blast consisting of 800mg 'Test400*'/wk + 1000mg EQ/wk. Including 4 weeks on 100mg Anadrol/wk.

The symptoms started worrying me so I got a hormone check done.

Could you or anyone else knowledgable translate the values into what, how and why?

Very Much appreciated!

*Test400 - 100mg Cyp 100mg Enanth 100mg Deca 100mg Undeca



http://imgur.com/iqKQoOT


----------



## SoberHans

Good morning,

I see people online recommend changing compounds frequently during cycle, I think Rich Piana was one of them.

Is there any benefit to this at all or is it just broscience?

Thanks


----------



## SoberHans

One more question sorry. What do you think about bro splits?

I feel like I'm the only person left who doesn't do a PPL routine and dedicates a certain day to a bodypart or two.

Thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

aperson said:


> Hi @ElChapo ,
> 
> I need advice. For the past 2-3 months I've been having low libido, no interest in sex, losing erection mid sex and hairloss(unusual for me) symptoms.
> 
> I've been on a cruise (200mg of 'Test400***' /wk) for the past month.
> 
> Before going on a cruise I did a 16 week blast consisting of 800mg 'Test400*'/wk + 1000mg EQ/wk. Including 4 weeks on 100mg Anadrol/wk.
> 
> The symptoms started worrying me so I got a hormone check done.
> 
> Could you or anyone else knowledgable translate the values into what, how and why?
> 
> Very Much appreciated!
> 
> *Test400 - 100mg Cyp 100mg Enanth 100mg Deca 100mg Undeca
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/iqKQoOT


 E2 is pretty low and you might have deca dick. Probably combo of both. You want E2 closer to 91 or higher. Easy fix for both issues.

Drop the deca and lower AI if you are taking one.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I see people online recommend changing compounds frequently during cycle, I think Rich Piana was one of them.
> 
> Is there any benefit to this at all or is it just broscience?
> 
> Thanks


 Broscience.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> One more question sorry. What do you think about bro splits?
> 
> I feel like I'm the only person left who doesn't do a PPL routine and dedicates a certain day to a bodypart or two.
> 
> Thanks again


 Any routine/split/style will work IF you stick to the basic principles.

1. Caloric surplus

2. Progressive overload

3. Rest


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Any routine/split/style will work IF you stick to the basic principles.
> 
> 1. Caloric surplus
> 
> 2. Progressive overload
> 
> 3. Rest


 Brilliant thanks, both the answers I wanted to hear


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Nolvadex/Ralox can pop up as E2 on blood work.


 Hopefully it wont show up much on e2 thanks for that info mate because id be taking more ai if it came back higher than it should if you didn't mention that, could of been taking more than i should haha! i havent got no signs of high e2 at the moment anyway so if its raised by quite a margin il then add more ai, and the nolva seems to be working on the gyno slowly too so going to re asses after the 6 week mark because initially was going to run it for 12 weeks, see how it goes now, thank you again for your advice mate, appreciate it!


----------



## InsideOutside

Hi mate , thanks for the thread.

ive had some blood work that's come back as low test and non existent FSH/ LH.

So my Endo did not want to prescribe TRT as he believes that it is technically male contraception and didn't want me to not be in a position to have kids although that wouldn't be planned for another year.

My question is, if I wanted to self TRT so I don't feel like s**t.

what type of measures of protocol could I follow if fertility was a concern or to "kickstart things"

( dropping TRT at that time isn't a concern if that's required to get things going again )

Thanks


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> 1-2 IU for anti-aging/ replacement
> 
> 2-5 IU for enhanced recovery/wound healing
> 
> +5 IU+Insulin for enhanced anabolism/muscle mass
> 
> What you are looking for would be in the 2-3 range. If you go very high, you can get water retention, high blood sugar, carpal tunnel and other side effects.


 Just to clarify you do think there would be benefit (enhanced lipolysis, improved skin, sleep ect) to using 2iu of gh daily?

I have my own somewhat limited experience with gh but I've heard some people on here claim that 2iu daily is no more than a replacement dose and therefore offer zero benefit whatsoever.

Also do you know what the actual replacement dose is? (assuming it's not 2iu daily)


----------



## Jonk891

@El Chapo

Do both Clomid and nolvadex need to be run during pct or could you choose one out of the two. If you was to choose one which one would you choose. What sort of doses are proven to raise Lh and Fsh. I've always ran 100mg Clomid and 40mg nolva per a day in the past but feel these doses are to high


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Just to clarify you do think there would be benefit (enhanced lipolysis, improved skin, sleep ect) to using 2iu of gh daily?
> 
> I have my own somewhat limited experience with gh but I've heard some people on here claim that 2iu daily is no more than a replacement dose and therefore offer zero benefit whatsoever.
> 
> Also do you know what the actual replacement dose is? (assuming it's not 2iu daily)


 Anecdotally, it seems to biggest benefit to GH at lower doses is for enhance nutrient partition and P-ratio. It appears to help people keep their bulks more lean and enhance recovery and sleep.

Technically 1 IU is a replacement dose. 2-3 IU is good for performance and recovery. 4-5 IU for wound healing has been shown in studies to work.


----------



## ElChapo

InsideOutside said:


> Hi mate , thanks for the thread.
> 
> ive had some blood work that's come back as low test and non existent FSH/ LH.
> 
> So my Endo did not want to prescribe TRT as he believes that it is technically male contraception and didn't want me to not be in a position to have kids although that wouldn't be planned for another year.
> 
> My question is, if I wanted to self TRT so I don't feel like s**t.
> 
> what type of measures of protocol could I follow if fertility was a concern or to "kickstart things"
> 
> ( dropping TRT at that time isn't a concern if that's required to get things going again )
> 
> Thanks


 How soon do you want to have a child? If you are working on a child now, your best bet is to take clomiphene/clomid or HMG (harder to source/more expensive but likely more effective) and time your intercourse with your partner's ovulation when she is fertile.

If you aren't looking to conceive soon and do your own TRT, run 1,500 HCG per week with it. That will partially replace the LH/FSH and stimulate spertmatogenesis. If you have access to it, get a sperm analysis now so you know your baseline. Then you can compare later when you take different compounds to enhance it.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Do both Clomid and nolvadex need to be run during pct or could you choose one out of the two. If you was to choose one which one would you choose. What sort of doses are proven to raise Lh and Fsh. I've always ran 100mg Clomid and 40mg nolva per a day in the past but feel these doses are to high


 Clomid only does the job, nolvadex is a poor PCT drug but it's great for preventing estrogen rebound gyno.

100 mg clomid is what i recommend, it's quite a high dose but the stuff works.


----------



## InsideOutside

ElChapo said:


> How soon do you want to have a child? If you are working on a child now, your best bet is to take clomiphene/clomid or HMG (harder to source/more expensive but likely more effective) and time your intercourse with your partner's ovulation when she is fertile.
> 
> If you aren't looking to conceive soon and do your own TRT, run 1,500 HCG per week with it. That will partially replace the LH/FSH and stimulate spertmatogenesis. If you have access to it, get a sperm analysis now so you know your baseline. Then you can compare later when you take different compounds to enhance it.


 Thanks for the speedy response mate.

No plans for another year or even longer.

Would I need to drop the TRT when trying to conceive?

I went and got an analysis first thing this morning so that will determine my next step to take.

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

InsideOutside said:


> Thanks for the speedy response mate.
> 
> No plans for another year or even longer.
> 
> Would I need to drop the TRT when trying to conceive?
> 
> I went and got an analysis first thing this morning so that will determine my next step to take.
> 
> Thank you


 Not necessarily, you can get a sperm analysis while on TRT+HCG once you want to conceive to see where you are at. Sometimes TRT+HCG is enough for conception. Other times adding HMG or dropping test and doing clomid only is the other recourse.


----------



## aperson

ElChapo said:


> E2 is pretty low and you might have deca dick. Probably combo of both. You want E2 closer to 91 or higher. Easy fix for both issues.
> 
> Drop the deca and lower AI if you are taking one.


 The thing is, I'm not using deca. I was just specifying the breakdown of the TEST400's esters.

I'm on 200mg Testosterone per week. And I don't take AI.

I am suspecting the EQ still lingering in my system, keeping my estro low.

What do you say?

Also what do you think about the DHEA levels being low?


----------



## Pancake'

I seem to be experiencing the odd irregular heartbeat/rhythm. this has occurrd for a number of years, I'm sure it started after I started consuming original Jack3d. I don't think I handle stimulants well at all. in particular I'm hypersensitive to anything I use.

When performing high rep squats anything above 8 I get this weird sensation like my hearts just been squeezed. I breathe heavy also and during a bulk I tend to feel pretty awful. I've been using caffeine @ 200-300mg for 4-5 days a week for a while. I'm going to discontinue it and see if it subsides.

I had an electrocardiogram last year and apparently was perfect? I don't think these are a big indicator of anything really?

Any thoughts? I'm going to up cardio and drop caffeine use. It's a horrible wellbeing and makes me freeze on the spot when it occurs.


----------



## S123

You probably get asked this loads of times and is probably quite tiring but what do you recommend for face and chest acne (I only get it from masteron, no other AAS gives me it, not even winstrol etc)

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> You probably get asked this loads of times and is probably quite tiring but what do you recommend for face and chest acne (I only get it from masteron, no other AAS gives me it, not even winstrol etc)
> 
> @ElChapo


 50 mg zinc picolinate daily, cold showers, tanning. masteron is overrated, i would just drop it if it's a problem.

Otherwise, accutane seems to have a semi-permanent effect on reducing acne. 80 mg daily is a good dose with a fatty meal, typical course runs 6 months.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I seem to be experiencing the odd irregular heartbeat/rhythm. this has occurrd for a number of years, I'm sure it started after I started consuming original Jack3d. I don't think I handle stimulants well at all. in particular I'm hypersensitive to anything I use.
> 
> When performing high rep squats anything above 8 I get this weird sensation like my hearts just been squeezed. I breathe heavy also and during a bulk I tend to feel pretty awful. I've been using caffeine @ 200-300mg for 4-5 days a week for a while. I'm going to discontinue it and see if it subsides.
> 
> I had an electrocardiogram last year and apparently was perfect? I don't think these are a big indicator of anything really?
> 
> Any thoughts? I'm going to up cardio and drop caffeine use. It's a horrible wellbeing and makes me freeze on the spot when it occurs.


 This can happen from stims, i had some irregular heart beats from high dose yohimbine use a while back that popped up in EKG, once i dropped yohimbine, it went away.


----------



## ElChapo

aperson said:


> The thing is, I'm not using deca. I was just specifying the breakdown of the TEST400's esters.
> 
> I'm on 200mg Testosterone per week. And I don't take AI.
> 
> I am suspecting the EQ still lingering in my system, keeping my estro low.
> 
> What do you say?
> 
> Also what do you think about the DHEA levels being low?


 You might need E2 a little higher for optimal sexual function, DHEA can be a little lower naturally in some people. It's not a big deal but you can supplement if you want.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Currently running a cut with 150 test e, mast e 200, 0.25 adex straight after jabs a week along with 20mg nolva everday to rid some minor gyno from previous cycles, im going to add var at 50mg in a few days for 6 weeks. Had bloods back today which is week 4 of cycle, my test is 39.5nmol and my e2 is 104nmol which is in range just under the half way mark of the e2 range.

What is the convertion rate of adding 500iu a week of hcg once a week, would it alter e2 that much at that dose? Thanks mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Currently running a cut with 150 test e, mast e 200, 0.25 adex straight after jabs a week along with 20mg nolva everday to rid some minor gyno from previous cycles, im going to add var at 50mg in a few days for 6 weeks. Had bloods back today which is week 4 of cycle, my test is 39.5nmol and my e2 is 104nmol which is in range just under the half way mark of the e2 range.
> 
> What is the convertion rate of adding 500iu a week of hcg once a week, would it alter e2 that much at that dose? Thanks mate.


 It shouldn't increase E2 enough to make a difference. 500 IU a week of HCG is pretty low dose. I recommend 1,000-1,500 IU.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Hi man

What do you make of the literature about NMN (nicotinamide riboside is the supplemental form) for NAD+ synthesis, which inexorably declines with age after 20y/o or something, and you can't boost though any other means, and is strongly touted to be the next big thing in anti ageing and etc?

I've been using for a while as an insurance policy, but I would be very keen to understand your view on it.

Thanks !


----------



## Pancake'

Would liposomal glutathione make a worthwhile supplement?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Would liposomal glutathione make a worthwhile supplement?


 No, NAC increases gluthathione very well, better than actually taking glutathione itself.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi man
> 
> What do you make of the literature about NMN (nicotinamide riboside is the supplemental form) for NAD+ synthesis, which inexorably declines with age after 20y/o or something, and you can't boost though any other means, and is strongly touted to be the next big thing in anti ageing and etc?
> 
> I've been using for a while as an insurance policy, but I would be very keen to understand your view on it.
> 
> Thanks !


 Never heard of it, but there's always some "next big thing". Not sure about this one.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Never heard of it, but there's always some "next big thing". Not sure about this one.


 It's a precursor to NAD+ if that helps..?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Taking 600mg NAC all year round good for health ? against oxidative stress ?

I've been taking it since 2 years


----------



## Pancake'

Abs training - should you look to get stronger on Ab exercises or just shoot for reps till failure?

I haven't been training them directly in ages, but I have really good midsection genetics. will getting significantly bigger distort the rows?

It's something I want to strengthen more towards improving lifts, injury prevention rather than the aesthetic.

What's your views on wearing a belt? Advantages/disadvantages. should you prioritise not wearing a belt and only wear one when really necessary?


----------



## Pancake'

Matt6210 said:


> You should stop pissing about on the floor with the othe girls, get up and go get some benching done with the mesters.


 I knew I'd get this haha


----------



## Matt6210

Pancake' said:


> I knew I'd get this haha


 Lol I actually deleted it mate, didn't realise was on this thread


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Taking 600mg NAC all year round good for health ? against oxidative stress ?
> 
> I've been taking it since 2 years


 It's a good supplement, one of the few proven to work. It's used in hospitals as an antidote for tylenol overdose.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Abs training - should you look to get stronger on Ab exercises or just shoot for reps till failure?
> 
> I haven't been training them directly in ages, but I have really good midsection genetics. will getting significantly bigger distort the rows?
> 
> It's something I want to strengthen more towards improving lifts, injury prevention rather than the aesthetic.
> 
> What's your views on wearing a belt? Advantages/disadvantages. should you prioritise not wearing a belt and only wear one when really necessary?


 People have made both work, but i definitely agree on direct ab training. It works to make the abs pop. Reps to failure or just fatigue works well.

The bonus is that helps protect the back when your core is stronger.

I never wear a belt, it's a crutch for a weak core like using straps for grip. That's just me though.


----------



## zariph

Can I test my testosterone gear by putting a amp in the fridge and see whether it crashes or not - will it only crash IF it contains some sort of hormone? Also how long should it be stored before starting to crash mate?


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo im taking 150mg test per week and just started hcg 1000iu per week. Does the hcg cause another x amount of mg per week of test like it would during pct when it get the balls producing again? Im worried as im on low test dose due to hair loss concerns, so could adding the hcg actually make my hair loss worse due to extra dht from the excess test being created from the hcg?


----------



## SoberHans

Hypothetical question if you don't mind answering it.

Not sure if you have a kid but if you do and he or she had been training naturally for a few years, were in there early to mid twenties and wanted to try steroids, would you be for or against this?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo im taking 150mg test per week and just started hcg 1000iu per week. Does the hcg cause another x amount of mg per week of test like it would during pct when it get the balls producing again? Im worried as im on low test dose due to hair loss concerns, so could adding the hcg actually make my hair loss worse due to extra dht from the excess test being created from the hcg?


 Technically it does, but it's usually negligible.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hypothetical question if you don't mind answering it.
> 
> Not sure if you have a kid but if you do and he or she had been training naturally for a few years, were in there early to mid twenties and wanted to try steroids, would you be for or against this?


 At that age, it's their choice completely in my opinion. The best you can do is keep tabs and make sure they are being responsible with their usage because you won't stop them from doing it if they want to.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can I test my testosterone gear by putting a amp in the fridge and see whether it crashes or not - will it only crash IF it contains some sort of hormone? Also how long should it be stored before starting to crash mate?


 Yes, you will see crystals if it has hormone in it. It should crash very quickly, the higher the concentration , the faster it happens. Give it an hour or two.


----------



## stewedw

Recently I've been getting horrible sickness from mt2. I've used before several times, but now on similar or less of a dose I've been vomiting and stomach in naughts.

Do antihistamine or any otc meds help? Other than ceasing use what can I do?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you will see crystals if it has hormone in it. It should crash very quickly, the higher the concentration , the faster it happens. Give it an hour or two.


 Nice thank you! Does this relate to every hormone, also deca tren etc?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice thank you! Does this relate to every hormone, also deca tren etc?


 Yeah, might be different with EQ since it tends to be liquid.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, might be different with EQ since it tends to be liquid.


 Great thx


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, might be different with EQ since it tends to be liquid.


 That's really interesting. So you can actually find out whether you've got something completely bunk quite easily.

Will it return to it's normally state easily or will it be prone to crashing afterwards?


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you will see crystals if it has hormone in it. It should crash very quickly, the higher the concentration , the faster it happens. Give it an hour or two.


 Is there any risk of damaging the gear by doing this? Sounds interesting


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> That's really interesting. So you can actually find out whether you've got something completely bunk quite easily.
> 
> Will it return to it's normally state easily or will it be prone to crashing afterwards?


 You just need to re-heat to dissolve the hormone crystals. It won't be more prone than before to crashing. Just the same.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Is there any risk of damaging the gear by doing this? Sounds interesting


 None whatsoever.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would you stop an oral AAS if you start getting liver pain or kidney pain ?

Let's say you started a SD cycle 20mg /day , day 10 you start having kidney pain?

I remember long time ago I had some kidney pain during an oral cycle , that lasted 3 days and it was painful during nights even when I stopped the oral , that was scary. ( I was drinking a lot of water)


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you will see crystals if it has hormone in it. It should crash very quickly, the higher the concentration , the faster it happens. Give it an hour or two.


 Sorry mate but not true.

i was suspicious of some test I got so did this to see if it crashed, it didn't. Just to make sure I tried with a vial of test that had given me a blood reading of the dose I took. It was t400

and this vial didn't crash at all.

this is including trying to freeze over night


----------



## cell-tech

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo im taking 150mg test per week and just started hcg 1000iu per week. Does the hcg cause another x amount of mg per week of test like it would during pct when it get the balls producing again? Im worried as im on low test dose due to hair loss concerns, so could adding the hcg actually make my hair loss worse due to extra dht from the excess test being created from the hcg?





ElChapo said:


> Technically it does, but it's usually negligible.


 its also started to give me gyno - would i be better off running only 500 iu a week insteaf of the 1000iu? Would the 500 do enough in terms of fertility?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would you stop an oral AAS if you start getting liver pain or kidney pain ?
> 
> Let's say you started a SD cycle 20mg /day , day 10 you start having kidney pain?
> 
> I remember long time ago I had some kidney pain during an oral cycle , that lasted 3 days and it was painful during nights even when I stopped the oral , that was scary. ( I was drinking a lot of water)


 I might stop it and see if it goes away, likely resume later.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> its also started to give me gyno - would i be better off running only 500 iu a week insteaf of the 1000iu? Would the 500 do enough in terms of fertility?


 1,000 iu is the minimum dose i recommend.


----------



## stewedw

What do you think of these readings for a bbder that blast and cruises. This is on a cruise. Not my bloods. Levels are elevated but not Hugh, however I don't understand at what stage would you be concerned?


----------



## Malin

What's the longest you'd run 50mg or 100mg of anavar for?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you will see crystals if it has hormone in it. It should crash very quickly, the higher the concentration , the faster it happens. Give it an hour or two.


 So I tried this with simple test e, 6 hours in fridge and no crystallyzing? Should I try to put it in the freezer maybe?

Also since it doesnt seems to crash in fridge, does this mean its underdosed, or can it still be decently dosed?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What are the best exercises for leg growth/strength?

I do Squats mostly , and leg curl/leg extension , calves raises . I stopped doing lunges and leg press.


----------



## darren.1987

can you use either proviron or Winstrol as they are both DHT derived to attempt counteract some of the unwanted mental/libido sides from using tren?

if so for my 12 week cycle would I be best of just using Winstrol for 6-8 weeks as it'd be better for strength etc


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> So I tried this with simple test e, 6 hours in fridge and no crystallyzing? Should I try to put it in the freezer maybe?
> 
> Also since it doesnt seems to crash in fridge, does this mean its underdosed, or can it still be decently dosed?


 Try freezer, what makes you suspect bunk? What compound is it?


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> What's the longest you'd run 50mg or 100mg of anavar for?


 12-16 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> What do you think of these readings for a bbder that blast and cruises. This is on a cruise. Not my bloods. Levels are elevated but not Hugh, however I don't understand at what stage would you be concerned?
> 
> View attachment 168507


 The problem AAS users do not understand is that the real damage AAS does to your body is something that shows up in blood work. These guys think good bloods mean they are A ok.

The biggest problem from AAS use is changes in heart structure and calcification/stiffening of the arteries. They can also increase blood clotting and risk of stroke and heart attack, again something that does not show up on blood work.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are the best exercises for leg growth/strength?
> 
> I do Squats mostly , and leg curl/leg extension , calves raises . I stopped doing lunges and leg press.


 Leg press is better for mass and leg strength. Squat is better for overall body strength and athleticism.

For mass: Leg press heavy weight & high volume+ leg curls+ leg extensions.

Lunges are pretty s**t but very popular, i think they are a waste of time. Just my opinion.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> can you use either proviron or Winstrol as they are both DHT derived to attempt counteract some of the unwanted mental/libido sides from using tren?
> 
> if so for my 12 week cycle would I be best of just using Winstrol for 6-8 weeks as it'd be better for strength etc


 Proviron and mast can help, winstrol doesn't usually have a lot of mental effects negative or positive.

Winstrol blows mast and proviron out of the water for strength and muscle gain.


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> The biggest problem from AAS use is changes in heart structure and *calcification/stiffening* of the arteries


 I understand the changes in heart structure due to aas.

Is potential calcification/stiffening purely from a build up of arterial plaque due to increased ldl/tryglycerides as a result of steroid use or are there other factors?


----------



## Jonk891

Sasnak said:


> I understand the changes in heart structure due to aas.
> 
> Is potential calcification/stiffening purely from a build up of arterial plaque due to increased ldl/tryglycerides as a result of steroid use or are there other factors?


 High bp can cause stiffening


----------



## Sasnak

Jonk891 said:


> High bp can cause stiffening


 My bp has always been exceptional. My ldl cholesterol on the other hand is still high with statins


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Is 1g per lb of (lean) body weight sufficient for building / maintaining muscle? Is there any benefit to increase protein intake by a further 50-100g of the minimum requirement ?

Sometimes i feel like im missing out on gains by not over eating the protein - but at the same time i dont want to consume it if it will make no difference


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Try freezer, what makes you suspect bunk? What compound is it?


 All the oil froze after 15 min, when I took it out of the freezer and hold in my hand for 30 sec it all got back to normal?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo
-Would donating blood decrease my strength for the next 2-3 days ?

I'm doing a strength program and I'm increasing weights slowly but it s working. Im giving blood in 2 days but I'm wondering if it will stop or slow my progression for some days?

-What do you think of CBD oil for anxiety/inflammation ?


----------



## arbffgadm100

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is 1g per lb of (lean) body weight sufficient for building / maintaining muscle? Is there any benefit to increase protein intake by a further 50-100g of the minimum requirement ?
> 
> Sometimes i feel like im missing out on gains by not over eating the protein - but at the same time i dont want to consume it if it will make no difference


 He's said it about 20x in this AMA alone, mate... its plenty.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -What do you think of CBD oil for anxiety/inflammation ?


 This review will focus on the potential use of cannabinoids as a new class of anti-inflammatory agents against a number of inflammatory and autoimmune diseases that are primarily triggered by activated T cells or other cellular immune components.

From - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828614/


----------



## Baka

arbffgadm100 said:


> This review will focus on the potential use of cannabinoids as a new class of anti-inflammatory agents against a number of inflammatory and autoimmune diseases that are primarily triggered by activated T cells or other cellular immune components.
> 
> From - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828614/


 I'd prefer some people s experience , I've already read some articles about it for inflammation , anxiety , health purposes.

did you try it yourself?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Baka said:


> I'd prefer some people s experience , I've already read some articles about it for inflammation , anxiety , health purposes.
> 
> did you try it yourself?


 Tried CBD oil. I think it's BS personally.


----------



## Baka

arbffgadm100 said:


> Tried CBD oil. I think it's BS personally.


 i see , so no effect for you

thanks


----------



## 6083

Baka said:


> i see , so no effect for you
> 
> thanks


 Lots of weak CBD oil on the market, I found with potent stuff helped my anxiety


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> I understand the changes in heart structure due to aas.
> 
> Is potential calcification/stiffening purely from a build up of arterial plaque due to increased ldl/tryglycerides as a result of steroid use or are there other factors?


 There are other factors, even elevated estrogen and androgens have a direct effect on the heart and vasculature. There's more to it than just cholesterol and triglycerides. Add to that if BP is elevated, and you get even higher risk of problems.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is 1g per lb of (lean) body weight sufficient for building / maintaining muscle? Is there any benefit to increase protein intake by a further 50-100g of the minimum requirement ?
> 
> Sometimes i feel like im missing out on gains by not over eating the protein - but at the same time i dont want to consume it if it will make no difference


 The only added benefit is more satiation from meals and feeling fuller. Extra protein is just broken down into glucose for energy and processed by the kidneys.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> -Would donating blood decrease my strength for the next 2-3 days ?
> 
> I'm doing a strength program and I'm increasing weights slowly but it s working. Im giving blood in 2 days but I'm wondering if it will stop or slow my progression for some days?
> 
> -What do you think of CBD oil for anxiety/inflammation ?


 Sometimes people feel a little weaker after giving blood.

CBD seems to have some potential.


----------



## pma111

How exactly does magnesium work its magic on anxiety and high blood pressure. And how does it compare to metoprolol, e.g. is both overkill, one stronger etc. Or is it a case of magnesium for milder forms of both issues and if no success try a beta blocker (and cardio,weight loss,cut down stimulants etc). I did wonder if it may be to do with how it interacts with calcium e.g. a natural calcium channel blocker.

Also is metoprolol heavy/toxic to the liver,or can it be a long term solution if it helps matters. Or do the benefits wear off after a while.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo I found 4 vials of 10iu HGH in the back of a cupboard, they've been at room temperature for 6+ months is there any point jabbing them


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> How exactly does magnesium work its magic on anxiety and high blood pressure. And how does it compare to metoprolol, e.g. is both overkill, one stronger etc. Or is it a case of magnesium for milder forms of both issues and if no success try a beta blocker (and cardio,weight loss,cut down stimulants etc). I did wonder if it may be to do with how it interacts with calcium e.g. a natural calcium channel blocker.
> 
> Also is metoprolol heavy/toxic to the liver,or can it be a long term solution if it helps matters. Or do the benefits wear off after a while.


 Mag is not even close to a beta blocker. mag is more like a calcium channel blocker but again, the potency does not even compare.

Magnesium/potassium are relaxing, calcium/sodium are stimulatory. They work for electrical signals, that's why they are called electrolytes.

Metoprolol is fairly mild with few sides if dosage is kept low. I always recommend lifestyle changes before trying pharmaceuticals ( fat loss, cardio, etc)


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo I found 4 vials of 10iu HGH in the back of a cupboard, they've been at room temperature for 6+ months is there any point jabbing them


 Technically it's supposed to be good for about a month. I really don't know how much potency might still be there.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo What are your thoughts on this?

*
NEVER PAIR FINASTERIDE WITH DECA OR NPP
*

When they are used concurrently, an interesting scenario unfolds; Nandrolone is inhibited from converting into the metabolite DHN (dihydronandrolone) at the 5α-Reductase enzyme.

At least, it's mostly inhibited by Finasteride, and is almost entirely inhibited by Dutasteride.

In addition, the metabolite of Deca-Durabolin is less androgenic than the parent compound (Nandrolone), which means that if you aren't able to convert the circulating Nandrolone into the less androgenic metabolite DHN, you now have significantly more free Nandrolone circulating in your system, which is more androgenic and has a far greater likelihood of wreaking havoc on the hairline.

So in short, the potential of Nandrolone for hair loss is much more than the less androgenic metabolite (DHN - dihydronandrolone), so it's a safe bet to stay away from it completely.

I personally know several individuals who used Deca because it is such a hair safe drug, but they also started Finasteride because they were told by their Doctor that it is the best medication available for hair loss prevention, only to end up with a catastrophic reaction between the two compounds resulting in the devastation of their hair.

If you are on Finasteride or Dutasteride, STEER CLEAR OF DECA AND NPP.

I keep seeing stuff like this but can't tell if there is actual science behind this theory?

Thanks for your time


----------



## Matt6210

@ElChapo sorry for boring the s**t out of you mate because I know you've answerd this and probably more than once, but a lot of pages to scroll through to find an old question.

but what dose do you recommend cialis if useing it for bp reasons and already have a high bp and wanting to bring it down?

also thinking about useing propranolol to lower bp, read on google can lower it, would you recommend?

cheers


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo What are your thoughts on this?
> 
> *
> NEVER PAIR FINASTERIDE WITH DECA OR NPP
> *
> 
> When they are used concurrently, an interesting scenario unfolds; Nandrolone is inhibited from converting into the metabolite DHN (dihydronandrolone) at the 5α-Reductase enzyme.
> 
> At least, it's mostly inhibited by Finasteride, and is almost entirely inhibited by Dutasteride.
> 
> In addition, the metabolite of Deca-Durabolin is less androgenic than the parent compound (Nandrolone), which means that if you aren't able to convert the circulating Nandrolone into the less androgenic metabolite DHN, you now have significantly more free Nandrolone circulating in your system, which is more androgenic and has a far greater likelihood of wreaking havoc on the hairline.
> 
> So in short, the potential of Nandrolone for hair loss is much more than the less androgenic metabolite (DHN - dihydronandrolone), so it's a safe bet to stay away from it completely.
> 
> I personally know several individuals who used Deca because it is such a hair safe drug, but they also started Finasteride because they were told by their Doctor that it is the best medication available for hair loss prevention, only to end up with a catastrophic reaction between the two compounds resulting in the devastation of their hair.
> 
> If you are on Finasteride or Dutasteride, STEER CLEAR OF DECA AND NPP.
> 
> I keep seeing stuff like this but can't tell if there is actual science behind this theory?
> 
> Thanks for your time


 Maybe if running NPP solo, but if running with test and you really dont want DHT, then i would run finasteride.

I never recommend finasteride. DHT is very important for male health.

The post above is legit fear mongering BS though.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> @ElChapo sorry for boring the s**t out of you mate because I know you've answerd this and probably more than once, but a lot of pages to scroll through to find an old question.
> 
> but what dose do you recommend cialis if useing it for bp reasons and already have a high bp and wanting to bring it down?
> 
> also thinking about useing propranolol to lower bp, read on google can lower it, would you recommend?
> 
> cheers


 It's not the best for BP as the doses needed to bring down BP have a very high risk of side effects. 10 mg daily or 20 mg x 3 per week might lower BP but migraines, stuffy nose, etc are very common at these doses.


----------



## Will2309

@El Chapo

Hi mate,

I have been on bisoprolol 5mg now for 3.5 weeks and since the start of week 2 I have been having issues sleeping all night.

Go to sleep ok but I wake up after 4 hrs and really struggle going back to sleep.

This is starting to be a problem for me as you can imagine. Looking at the side effects of this med it says it can cause tiredness and fatigue but also insomnia..

I take my pill before bed so is bisoprolol known for keeping people awake???

I shall try taking it early in the day, hopefully this will help.

Thanks


----------



## Whoremoan1

i know youve answered this but cant find the answers

1, gh timing for fatloss ? early morning / after training ? (2iu/2iu)

gh timing for muscle gains ? and amount ?

gh timing for a mix of both ? and amount ?

2, best supplements for lipid health?

3, longest you can run clen ?

4, if i respond well and have no issues with tren e in offseason would you ever still swap it periodically, just to be sure ? ive always been told its very harsh but my bloods have always been fine ? would you even think all the various labs of tren ive used were bunk or can some people just handle it well ?

5, with the above question , if so what would you suggest interchanging it with? npp ?? if you do recommend swapping it out ? so test e/ eq / tren e >> test e , eq, npp ?


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> It's not the best for BP as the doses needed to bring down BP have a very high risk of side effects. 10 mg daily or 20 mg x 3 per week might lower BP but migraines, stuffy nose, etc are very common at these doses.


 @Matt6210 Along with RHO's (Raging Hard On's)

Do you not include daily beetroot juice in your stack mate? This is for Matt btw.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo why is it that hormones don't cause up/downregulation of receptors yet majority of other drugs do? I thought that any substance that binds to a receptor would cause up/downregulation, is it a different type of receptor?


----------



## Matt6210

PSevens2017 said:


> @Matt6210 Along with RHO's (Raging Hard On's)
> 
> Do you not include daily beetroot juice in your stack mate? This is for Matt btw.


 Think that's more to keep it from getting high in the first place mate, not going to get it down.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I often asked my self about the older AAS users , the ones with great physique/skin/hairs etc.

For exemple , Mike o Hearn (he claims natty but whatever) ,he has a perfect physique for his age , really strong too. he has always been an athlete and has good genes for sure too.

I'm sure this guy have a good diet since forever , use a lot of healthy supplements , do a lot of cardio and take some HGH and peptides to keep a health like this , he may be on a cruise dose of test but not too high.

What do you think this kind of guy use ? which peptides can help not looking to old from AAS? HGH does help but are there some peptides better than that?


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hi mate,
> 
> I have been on bisoprolol 5mg now for 3.5 weeks and since the start of week 2 I have been having issues sleeping all night.
> 
> Go to sleep ok but I wake up after 4 hrs and really struggle going back to sleep.
> 
> This is starting to be a problem for me as you can imagine. Looking at the side effects of this med it says it can cause tiredness and fatigue but also insomnia..
> 
> I take my pill before bed so is bisoprolol known for keeping people awake???
> 
> I shall try taking it early in the day, hopefully this will help.
> 
> Thanks


 It's a known side effect of beta blockers for some people. 2.5 mg of melatonin is prescribed for this problem. You can also try taking it in the morning as well.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> i know youve answered this but cant find the answers
> 
> 1, gh timing for fatloss ? early morning / after training ? (2iu/2iu)
> 
> gh timing for muscle gains ? and amount ?
> 
> gh timing for a mix of both ? and amount ?
> 
> 2, best supplements for lipid health?
> 
> 3, longest you can run clen ?
> 
> 4, if i respond well and have no issues with tren e in offseason would you ever still swap it periodically, just to be sure ? ive always been told its very harsh but my bloods have always been fine ? would you even think all the various labs of tren ive used were bunk or can some people just handle it well ?
> 
> 5, with the above question , if so what would you suggest interchanging it with? npp ?? if you do recommend swapping it out ? so test e/ eq / tren e >> test e , eq, npp ?


 1- Timing isn't important, but most recovery happens while you sleep, so i would do bedtime. Some people do morning injections hoping they get their own endogenous spike. Pre and post workout make the least sense from a physiological perspective.

2- Cardio, Vitamin K2(MK7), fish oil, red yeast rice extract, niacin, low-moderate alcohol consumption(preferably red wine; 1-2 glasses).

3- 12-16 weeks

4- Never run tren year round, you will pay for it in the future. Like i said, the real damage and danger of AAS is not something you will ever see in blood work. You don't need tren in a cruise, if you want the "tren look", stay leaner year round and run test prop.

5- How long is this off-season? What are your goals? Is this a cruise?


----------



## Pancake'

Baka said:


> I often asked my self about the older AAS users , the ones with great physique/skin/hairs etc.
> 
> For exemple , Mike o Hearn (he claims natty but whatever) ,he has a perfect physique for his age , really strong too. he has always been an athlete and has good genes for sure too.


 Look at some photos, his hairline changed, many joke he wears a toupee. You can bet he's pretty metrosexual in the sense, that he really takes care of himself. I like o'hearn, think the dude is awesome, but he's narcissism in it's finest form. dude just has fantastic genetics and really took great care of himself.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo why is it that hormones don't cause up/downregulation of receptors yet majority of other drugs do? I thought that any substance that binds to a receptor would cause up/downregulation, is it a different type of receptor?


 It depends on the mechanism of the drugs. It's too complicated to explain.

As an example, caffeine builds a tolerance because your body produces more adenosine receptors in the brain. Caffeine mimicks adenosine and binds to the receptor so real adenosine can't exert it's effect. Adenosine's effect is to make you sleepy and tired. AAS works in a completely different way.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I often asked my self about the older AAS users , the ones with great physique/skin/hairs etc.
> 
> For exemple , Mike o Hearn (he claims natty but whatever) ,he has a perfect physique for his age , really strong too. he has always been an athlete and has good genes for sure too.
> 
> I'm sure this guy have a good diet since forever , use a lot of healthy supplements , do a lot of cardio and take some HGH and peptides to keep a health like this , he may be on a cruise dose of test but not too high.
> 
> What do you think this kind of guy use ? which peptides can help not looking to old from AAS? HGH does help but are there some peptides better than that?


 He definitely takes care of himself. Aging well comes down to genetics and lifestyle. Mike O'Hearn is an avid cardio and workout fanatic. He has been exercising since he was a teenager and has always kept himself lean and in shape. GH probably helps too.

Nothing beats GH.


----------



## Baka

Pancake' said:


> Look at some photos, his hairline changed, many joke he wears a toupee. You can bet he's pretty metrosexual in the sense, that he really takes care of himself. I like o'hearn, think the dude is awesome, but he's narcissism in it's finest form. dude just has fantastic genetics and really took great care of himself.


 for sure , to be like this at his age or whatever age often mean you have body issues or are metrosexual , no doubt about that. (and work really really hard)

He's still on top tho , to me it's a good exemple for the gymrats


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I preloaded 20 insulin syringes with 1ml of test prop in each, they were then put in a ziploc bag which had been cleaned inside with alcohol swabs and the bag was closed. I've now changed my idea and am going to stay on cycle and was wondering if these would be fine to use in 8 weeks time when I use them for my cruise? Personally I don't see how they'd become contaminated but then again I don't know the sterility of oil preparations so wanted your opinion as I know you have brewed testosterone in the past.


----------



## Pancake'

Will you escape through a tunnel again this time?


----------



## Simon90

I tried sticking them amps in the fridge for couple of hours, still exactly Same, theyre suposed to be pharma, im guessing this is enough to say it is bunk then?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I preloaded 20 insulin syringes with 1ml of test prop in each, they were then put in a ziploc bag which had been cleaned inside with alcohol swabs and the bag was closed. I've now changed my idea and am going to stay on cycle and was wondering if these would be fine to use in 8 weeks time when I use them for my cruise? Personally I don't see how they'd become contaminated but then again I don't know the sterility of oil preparations so wanted your opinion as I know you have brewed testosterone in the past.


 It will be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I tried sticking them amps in the fridge for couple of hours, still exactly Same, theyre suposed to be pharma, im guessing this is enough to say it is bunk then?
> 
> Cheers


 Best way to tell is lab work but you should see crystals


----------



## Pancake'

Do you think squatting and deadlifting in the same workout will inevitably cause injuries and in general is a bad idea?

For those who have built their muscle mass, could SEO be a useful tool? in particular doing calves & shoulders and maybe even triceps. can it also be permanent?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Do you think squatting and deadlifting in the same workout will inevitably cause injuries and in general is a bad idea?
> 
> For those who have built their muscle mass, could SEO be a useful tool? in particular doing calves & shoulders and maybe even triceps. can it also be permanent?


 Yes, if you are intermediate-advanced, it's usually a bad idea unless intensity is low enough. If you are going +80%, it's a lot on your body.

It's something for those who are competing to touch up lagging parts and bring more balance, not something i would ever recommend to a recreational lifter. I would never partake myself.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I tried sticking them amps in the fridge for couple of hours, still exactly Same, theyre suposed to be pharma, im guessing this is enough to say it is bunk then?
> 
> Cheers


 Best way to tell is blood work honestly.


----------



## swole troll

vague question i know but ive knackered my back (around SI joint area) booked in to see a chiropractor tomorrow as i was desperate for a fix since training has gone to total s**t! (taken 2 weeks off low body training now)

i wondered if you have any experience or advice about seeing one?

ive heard that only a handful of adjustments they do are even relevant and the rest is just time filler


----------



## Frost_uk

Query -

Anything to consider using cialis daily? I tend to take 5-10mg a day and 20-30mg now and then for doing the business.

Sometimes I stop for a few days, just wondered if any known info on constant daily use at 5-10mg? For mainly health benefits and pump


----------



## TURBS

Frost_uk said:


> Query -
> 
> Anything to consider using cialis daily? I tend to take 5-10mg a day and 20-30mg now and then for doing the business.
> 
> Sometimes I stop for a few days, just wondered if any known info on constant daily use at 5-10mg? For mainly health benefits and pump


 Been asked a few times mate



ElChapo said:


> Yes, taking too much can increase side effects like nasal congestion, flu like symptoms, headache, etc.
> 
> 10 mg daily would be for someone with severe ED. It's a VERY high dosage and ridiculous unless your pecker isn't working.
> 
> 5 mg daily is actually the full medically prescribed dose for erectile dysfunction.
> 
> Men with healthy circulation and no ED can use as little as 5 mg to 10 mg PER WEEK for circulation and erection improvement.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> vague question i know but ive knackered my back (around SI joint area) booked in to see a chiropractor tomorrow as i was desperate for a fix since training has gone to total s**t! (taken 2 weeks off low body training now)
> 
> i wondered if you have any experience or advice about seeing one?
> 
> ive heard that only a handful of adjustments they do are even relevant and the rest is just time filler


 No clue on chiropractors, a lot of people swear by them. It's one of those try it yourself and see things.


----------



## ElChapo

Frost_uk said:


> Query -
> 
> Anything to consider using cialis daily? I tend to take 5-10mg a day and 20-30mg now and then for doing the business.
> 
> Sometimes I stop for a few days, just wondered if any known info on constant daily use at 5-10mg? For mainly health benefits and pump


 5 mg daily is the dosage for ED and BPH (big prostate/urinary retention). What do you want to know?


----------



## zariph

Can you help me out on how to use anavar or dbol when using it first time.

1. Which dose do you recommend to start off with, and how to dose it?

2. How should I run AI and or Serm? Usually I do 0.5 adex eod with 500mg test

3. Should I invest in tudca or any other supplement?

4. Will use one of these to at the end of cycle, which one would you suggest - will do winny for next one


----------



## Frost_uk

ElChapo said:


> 5 mg daily is the dosage for ED and BPH (big prostate/urinary retention). What do you want to know?


 Just wanted to know if any known downsides of using for a long period? Or is it pretty much safe enough at 5mg daily without any changes/impact to health. Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can you help me out on how to use anavar or dbol when using it first time.
> 
> 1. Which dose do you recommend to start off with, and how to dose it?
> 
> 2. How should I run AI and or Serm? Usually I do 0.5 adex eod with 500mg test
> 
> 3. Should I invest in tudca or any other supplement?
> 
> 4. Will use one of these to at the end of cycle, which one would you suggest - will do winny for next one


 Not a dbol fan in the least. Too much water and not good for gyno prone individuals.

1. Anavar is typically dosed at 50-100 mg daily for males, stacked with testosterone 200-500 mg per week for starters. If running VAR solo, 100 mg daily.

2. 1-2 mg per week adex for 500 mg test is enough for most people. start at 1 mg per week, you can split to 0.5 mg x 2 per week.

3. If running orals for +12 weeks or at higher doses than average, i recommend TUDCA.

4. I would run orals from start to finish. Using Orals for kick start or end of cycle only is a massive waste of potential. Orals are extremely effective at building lean tissue and strength, they also kick in fast. You should run your orals through your whole cycle for best results. Trust me. Liver toxicity is vastly overstated, just don't drink or take liver toxic medicine like acetaminophen.


----------



## ElChapo

Frost_uk said:


> Just wanted to know if any known downsides of using for a long period? Or is it pretty much safe enough at 5mg daily without any changes/impact to health. Cheers


 It's safe long-term and tolerance does not develop. 5 mg is on the high side for someone without ED or prostate issues. You will still get good results with 5 mg x 2-3 per week with less risk of side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> vague question i know but ive knackered my back (around SI joint area) booked in to see a chiropractor tomorrow as i was desperate for a fix since training has gone to total s**t! (taken 2 weeks off low body training now)
> 
> i wondered if you have any experience or advice about seeing one?
> 
> ive heard that only a handful of adjustments they do are even relevant and the rest is just time filler


 What was the last time you took a solid 2-4 week break from ALL lifting? I find this lets nagging injuries heal and inflammation goes away, i come back stronger and feeling refreshed. I haven't missed a gym week in over 5 years, but i do take 1-2 week breaks from time to time when feeling burnt out or injured, and i partially credit that with being a reason why i've been so consistent with my training.

If you keep training through injury and fatigue, eventually your body calls it quits and instead of 1-2 weeks, you end up missing 6 months to a year of training.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> What was the last time you took a solid 2-4 week break from ALL lifting? I find this lets nagging injuries heal and inflammation goes away, i come back stronger and feeling refreshed. I haven't missed a gym week in over 5 years, but i do take 1-2 week breaks from time to time when feeling burnt out or injured, and i partially credit that with being a reason why i've been so consistent with my training.
> 
> If you keep training through injury and fatigue, eventually your body calls it quits and instead of 1-2 weeks, you end up missing 6 months to a year of training.


 This is worse my backs ever been

I kept trying to find out what I could get away with and as a result just injured it over and over

The last time I took a full 2 weeks off with 0 training was when I had my pec major reattached in early 2017.

I'm going for the chiropractic appointments next week since already paid for them so I could take off next week and just do some light cardio do you think I should assess after that or just go for 2 weeks regardless? (this will be very difficult for me to do)


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> This is worse my backs ever been
> 
> I kept trying to find out what I could get away with and as a result just injured it over and over
> 
> The last time I took a full 2 weeks off with 0 training was when I had my pec major reattached in early 2017.
> 
> I'm going for the chiropractic appointments next week since already paid for them so I could take off next week and just do some light cardio do you think I should assess after that or just go for 2 weeks regardless? (this will be very difficult for me to do)


 The 2 weeks will do your body and CNS a ton of good. You will be itching to get back into the gym, so you will come back stronger and more motivated than ever. Trust me, i've been there before.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Not a dbol fan in the least. Too much water and not good for gyno prone individuals.
> 
> 1. Anavar is typically dosed at 50-100 mg daily for males, stacked with testosterone 200-500 mg per week for starters. If running VAR solo, 100 mg daily.
> 
> 2. 1-2 mg per week adex for 500 mg test is enough for most people. start at 1 mg per week, you can split to 0.5 mg x 2 per week.
> 
> 3. If running orals for +12 weeks or at higher doses than average, i recommend TUDCA.
> 
> 4. I would run orals from start to finish. Using Orals for kick start or end of cycle only is a massive waste of potential. Orals are extremely effective at building lean tissue and strength, they also kick in fast. You should run your orals through your whole cycle for best results. Trust me. Liver toxicity is vastly overstated, just don't drink or take liver toxic medicine like acetaminophen.


 Thank you!

Thing is I have 6 weeks left of cycle and have both anavar and dbol on hand, and want to try one of them before I have to cruise - but is it a waste you think? Also not sure whether to go with Var or Dbol as im trying to add muscle.

Also the question about AI/Serm, I mean do I need to run nolva while using Dbol? Should I up the AI dose from 0.5eod to maybe 0.5ED?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Thing is I have 6 weeks left of cycle and have both anavar and dbol on hand, and want to try one of them before I have to cruise - but is it a waste you think? Also not sure whether to go with Var or Dbol as im trying to add muscle.
> 
> Also the question about AI/Serm, I mean do I need to run nolva while using Dbol? Should I up the AI dose from 0.5eod to maybe 0.5ED?


 Up to you

Dbol aromatizes to a very powerful estrogen called methyl-estradiol. You will need more AI, nolvadex may or may not stop the gyno. You might not even get gyno, you need to be prone to gyno to get gyno


----------



## PSevens2017

swole troll said:


> vague question i know but ive knackered my back (around SI joint area) booked in to see a chiropractor tomorrow as i was desperate for a fix since training has gone to total s**t! (taken 2 weeks off low body training now)
> 
> i wondered if you have any experience or advice about seeing one?
> 
> ive heard that only a handful of adjustments they do are even relevant and the rest is just time filler


 Chiropractors have a reputation of telling patients they require a high number of sessions that will cost eg £1300. But, if you pay £500 now, you'll get 35% off. Over a period of 6 months, most physical issues will resolve, especially lower back. Even less but if they hook you in with the contract, done deal. See how one session goes. I would see a decent sports physio or sports therapist after if you need to. More suited to your needs. I'd then look at mobility, stretching. Strengthening you're more than good with that.

Chiros will likely do manipulations (known as HVT - high velocity thrusts) to correct. That's basically cracking.

I'm a sports therapist. Lots of clients report to me of their chiro experience. You may have a decent one though mate. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## stewedw

As above. Physio first. Worth their weight unfold. Wouldn't goto a chiro unless I was referred by my physio


----------



## Frost_uk

ElChapo said:


> It's safe long-term and tolerance does not develop. 5 mg is on the high side for someone without ED or prostate issues. You will still get good results with 5 mg x 2-3 per week with less risk of side effects.


 Perfect thanks.... I'll review my dosing, cheers chap.


----------



## swole troll

PSevens2017 said:


> Chiropractors have a reputation of telling patients they require a high number of sessions that will cost eg £1300. But, if you pay £500 now, you'll get 35% off. Over a period of 6 months, most physical issues will resolve, especially lower back. Even less but if they hook you in with the contract, done deal. See how one session goes. I would see a decent sports physio or sports therapist after if you need to. More suited to your needs. I'd then look at mobility, stretching. Strengthening you're more than good with that.
> 
> Chiros will likely do manipulations (known as HVT - high velocity thrusts) to correct. That's basically cracking.
> 
> I'm a sports therapist. Lots of clients report to me of their chiro experience. You may have a decent one though mate. Let us know how it goes.


 thanks for writing that out

i took the appointment a bit knee jerk as im at wits end with it 
went from a highly promising meet prep to being in pain sat in a chair munching paracetamol, ibuprofen, codeine and valium with my strength dropping week after week whilst im out the gym and off work

finally decided to sack it all off and accept the loss and now its just a matter of ridding the discomfort so figured f**k it if i go in and get a voila click then happy days and if not then i know ive exhausted that avenue

points have been noted though and if this persists even post chiro (of which i now dont have much hope in) ill continue with abstaining from the gym and failing that after a couple weeks ill look into a sports physio.

ive had some injuries in my time in the gym but this low back has been truly debilitating...


----------



## m575

swole troll said:


> thanks for writing that out
> 
> i took the appointment a bit knee jerk as im at wits end with it
> went from a highly promising meet prep to being in pain sat in a chair munching paracetamol, ibuprofen, codeine and valium with my strength dropping week after week whilst im out the gym and off work
> 
> finally decided to sack it all off and accept the loss and now its just a matter of ridding the discomfort so figured f**k it if i go in and get a voila click then happy days and if not then i know ive exhausted that avenue
> 
> points have been noted though and if this persists even post chiro (of which i now dont have much hope in) ill continue with abstaining from the gym and failing that after a couple weeks ill look into a sports physio.
> 
> ive had some injuries in my time in the gym but this low back has been truly debilitating...


 I feel your pain here. Been having problems for months now. Physio seems to think years of posture imbalance and using muscles for things that they shouldn't be is what's messing me up. Tight psoas major apparently which is pulling in my lower back and I'm fairly immobile right now. No idea what to do really!


----------



## PSevens2017

@swole troll @m575 Sounds like a possible nerve root issue that could be causing the ongoing pain. If illiopsoas is full of tension, it can also pull on ligaments connected to spine which can be v uncomfortable. Not diagnosing here guys btw.

You got any pain radiating into lower limbs?

@swole trolltry not to be too disheartened about the s**t feedback you've been given. You might get a decent chiro. Plenty of s**t physios, Osteos and sports therapists out there as well. They just won't try and get 6 months worth of cash out of you at your first session and tell you that you have to see them or things won't improve.

I treat people in my clinic and then give them mobility/strengthening exercises as this will do the trick most of time. Tell them it's up to them if they want to come back again for further massage/needling/assessment.

@m575 has your physio suggested any psoas stretches to do? If you've been seeing them fir several months and still fairly immobile, I'd be looking elsewhere.

You can't have a "posture imbalance" mate. Fcuk knows what they're feeding you there. No such thing. Some muscles may be stronger in areas (usually more dominant than others) leading to overactive & underactive muscles. This leads to tension. It's easily solved.

Posture can be affected because of overactuve/under active muscles or previous trauma (surgery/injury) to joint or muscle group so we compensate. Natural unconscious reaction. We do it throughout life.

Ask them about manual muscle testing. It's a way of testing muscle strength/deficits. Can be carried out by practitioner.


----------



## swole troll

PSevens2017 said:


> @swole troll @m575 Sounds like a possible nerve root issue that could be causing the ongoing pain. If illiopsoas is full of tension, it can also pull on ligaments connected to spine which can be v uncomfortable. Not diagnosing here guys btw.
> 
> You got any pain radiating into lower limbs?
> 
> @swole trolltry not to be too disheartened about the s**t feedback you've been given. You might get a decent chiro. Plenty of s**t physios, Osteos and sports therapists out there as well. They just won't try and get 6 months worth of cash out of you at your first session and tell you that you have to see them or things won't improve.
> 
> I treat people in my clinic and then give them mobility/strengthening exercises as this will do the trick most of time. Tell them it's up to them if they want to come back again for further massage/needling/assessment.
> 
> @m575 has your physio suggested any psoas stretches to do? If you've been seeing them fir several months and still fairly immobile, I'd be looking elsewhere.
> 
> You can't have a "posture imbalance" mate. Fcuk knows what they're feeding you there. No such thing. Some muscles may be stronger in areas (usually more dominant than others) leading to overactive & underactive muscles. This leads to tension. It's easily solved.
> 
> Posture can be affected because of overactuve/under active muscles or previous trauma (surgery/injury) to joint or muscle group so we compensate. Natural unconscious reaction. We do it throughout life.
> 
> Ask them about manual muscle testing. It's a way of testing muscle strength/deficits. Can be carried out by practitioner.


 No pain radiating for me

Just general targeted pain mainly on the left side.

I'll tag you in here

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/328183-backs-fked/?do=embed

On what the chiropractor says today

Hopefully you can let me know if it's a load of bollocks or any credibility to it

(Sorry for clogging up your thread @ElChapo)


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would short term HGH use be beneficial ? for fat loss/muscle building/skin etc?

for exemple , 2 months use at 2-3 Ed


----------



## Pancake'

Will short esters trigger gene expression sooner?

Taking away injection frequency here, do you think prop will always be superior? I get "test is test" but like yourself, many prefer prop.

How would you split 350mg and 500mg test prop personally per week?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Up to you
> 
> Dbol aromatizes to a very powerful estrogen called methyl-estradiol. You will need more AI, nolvadex may or may not stop the gyno. You might not even get gyno, you need to be prone to gyno to get gyno


 Decided to go with anavar - should I just dose it twice a day since 12hours half life? And will 50mg be sufficient?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo is there such thing as injectable DHT or DHN? I know that DHB is simply boldenone that has been reduced by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme forming DHB, was wondering why there's no such compounds available for other 5-AR reduced hormones? I assume side effects of DHT would cause issues in some people but DHN could be an interesting hormone. Is it possible to synthesise these compounds?


----------



## SlinMeister

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo is there such thing as injectable DHT or DHN? I know that DHB is simply boldenone that has been reduced by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme forming DHB, was wondering why there's no such compounds available for other 5-AR reduced hormones? I assume side effects of DHT would cause issues in some people but DHN could be an interesting hormone. Is it possible to synthesise these compounds?


 DHN is completly useless, if you don't want to suffer from deca dick, depression and so on....

DHT is called STANOLONE, it's EXTREMELY potent and hard to find, this will dry you out more than Winstrol and you will have to add a good dose of Test to combat flatness.... It can be very good for comp, on a bulk with an high dose of test (1g+)


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo is there such thing as injectable DHT or DHN? I know that DHB is simply boldenone that has been reduced by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme forming DHB, was wondering why there's no such compounds available for other 5-AR reduced hormones? I assume side effects of DHT would cause issues in some people but DHN could be an interesting hormone. Is it possible to synthesise these compounds?


 Yes, Chinese raw vendors do carry DHT powder. There is no real application for muscle building though.

Never seen DHN, don't see a point in making it.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Will short esters trigger gene expression sooner?
> 
> Taking away injection frequency here, do you think prop will always be superior? I get "test is test" but like yourself, many prefer prop.
> 
> How would you split 350mg and 500mg test prop personally per week?


 This is my theory of why they kick i faster.

test prop i do x 2-x 3 per week. Monday/Thursday or Mon/Wed/Fri


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would short term HGH use be beneficial ? for fat loss/muscle building/skin etc?
> 
> for exemple , 2 months use at 2-3 Ed


 possible, studies showing enhanced wound healing, but GH is overrated.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Decided to go with anavar - should I just dose it twice a day since 12hours half life? And will 50mg be sufficient?


 No, once daily is fine.


----------



## pma111

What would you say are the top 5 health benefits of regular cardio.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What would you say are the top 5 health benefits of regular cardio.


 1. Disease prevention for diabetes, alzheimer's, depression, cancer, etc.

2. Calories burned, helps keep you lean.

3. Enhanced mood through endorphin/serotonin release.

4. Increases athleticism and helps prevent injury.

5. Increases muscular and cardiovascular endurance which lead to better workouts and recovery.


----------



## Mickstar

Hi I went to see the nurse about my blood pressure was getting reading of over 150/ 88 on my own machine at home then went and got it done on her machine similar readings, she then done it manually and said my readings were 134/80 something and said these levels are fine what you think , I'm 35 year old train 5-6 times a week and do cardio now and then but get a lot of steps in most days , I've not long finished pct on first cycle and thinking about doing another in due time but want to make sure bp isn't a problem. What would you suggest I do to drop the numbers mate


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi I went to see the nurse about my blood pressure was getting reading of over 150/ 88 on my own machine at home then went and got it done on her machine similar readings, she then done it manually and said my readings were 134/80 something and said these levels are fine what you think , I'm 35 year old train 5-6 times a week and do cardio now and then but get a lot of steps in most days , I've not long finished pct on first cycle and thinking about doing another in due time but want to make sure bp isn't a problem. What would you suggest I do to drop the numbers mate


 Do you know your approximate body fat percentage? You should stay at or under 15% year round for best results for health and bodybuilding. Fat loss will usually lead to bp dropping.

If the cuff is too tight, the reading can come out higher. The machines are very accurate, especially the omron ones. The machines are typically as accurate as manual reading, the manual reading with stethoscope and sphygmomanometer is more prone to user error.

I recommend at least 2-3 days of cardio 20-30 minutes, heart rate around 140-160 bpm. You can do jogging, swimming, bicycle, MMA/boxing, etc. Pick something that's fun or somewhat enjoyable so you can stick to it long term. Make sure to drop any excess body fat, there's no reason for anyone to be over 15% body fat.


----------



## Mickstar

ElChapo said:


> Do you know your approximate body fat percentage? You should stay at or under 15% year round for best results for health and bodybuilding. Fat loss will usually lead to bp dropping.
> 
> If the cuff is too tight, the reading can come out higher. The machines are very accurate, especially the omron ones. The machines are typically as accurate as manual reading, the manual reading with stethoscope and sphygmomanometer is more prone to user error.
> 
> I recommend at least 2-3 days of cardio 20-30 minutes, heart rate around 140-160 bpm. You can do jogging, swimming, bicycle, MMA/boxing, etc. Pick something that's fun or somewhat enjoyable so you can stick to it long term. Make sure to drop any excess body fat, there's no reason for anyone to be over 15% body fat.


 I would say I'm over 15% body fat been bulking for 5-6 months maybe time to cut some body fat see if it makes a difference , I'll up my cardio and see if that makes a difference. The first machine she used was a cheap one she said it herself, but it was similar readings to my own one, then she got the expensive omron one out which read 135/80 something, I've been trying to keep my calories high as I've just finished pct and wanted to maintain new weight so will I go back into reducing body fat.


----------



## pma111

Aside from the hormonal imbalances that can negatively affect circulation. Is there maybe a top/common 5 general health issues also that negatively affect circulation?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, once daily is fine.


 Great!

Is 50mg anavar a decent dose to start with and when will ppl usually start seeing/feeling effects?

Do you know how fast gyno can occur when doing dbol? Do some actually start feeling sensitivity etc after just one or two days on dbol?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Aside from the hormonal imbalances that can negatively affect circulation. Is there maybe a top/common 5 general health issues also that negatively affect circulation?


 Being sedentary, hypothyroidism, smoking, diabetes, obesity/hypertension


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great!
> 
> Is 50mg anavar a decent dose to start with and when will ppl usually start seeing/feeling effects?
> 
> Do you know how fast gyno can occur when doing dbol? Do some actually start feeling sensitivity etc after just one or two days on dbol?


 50 mg is fine. Orals kick in as fast as 1-2 weeks. You can see effects in days sometimes.

Gyno can appear as soon as 1-2 weeks but can take longer sometimes.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

What is your opinion on AAS drugs like deca and anavar for muscle/joint/tendon injury healing? Seems like people are pointing much more towards HGH for that


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> NPP is dryer than deca, you won't know until you try it. It's not really bad, i would say as bad as test E at worst but probably better.


 Just a update - been on 200mg Test E and around 450mg NPP for 2 weeks now. I have also been taking 25mg proviron ED also.

Im not sure how much the proviron is playing a part of this but i am experiencing little water retention - in fact around no different from when i was using low test and high primo.

During the day whilst bulking, come evening i have a bit of food bloat in my tummy but then by morning its flat.

Muscles feel full but without the watery look.

I am not using an AI and i have not once had any symptoms of gyno as i would have if i was using tren.

Im not sure if this is because the Test is low and i am using proviron which keeps E2 in a stable good range and to be honest i dont want to find out as "why fix something thats not broken".

overall at the moment i have no side effects however i guess ill have to get a blood test in due course to see what could be going on inside.

On another note, how is NPP typically meant to be on lipids if you compare it to Test (which does not really affect my lipids) and Tren & orals (wrecks lipids). Somewhere in the middle, around the same as test or more in line with Tren?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> What is your opinion on AAS drugs like deca and anavar for muscle/joint/tendon injury healing? Seems like people are pointing much more towards HGH for that


 There's a lot of anecdotes and some research showing deca helps with joint pain and recovery. It's worth a shot if you have issues. Var is up in the air.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Just a update - been on 200mg Test E and around 450mg NPP for 2 weeks now. I have also been taking 25mg proviron ED also.
> 
> Im not sure how much the proviron is playing a part of this but i am experiencing little water retention - in fact around no different from when i was using low test and high primo.
> 
> During the day whilst bulking, come evening i have a bit of food bloat in my tummy but then by morning its flat.
> 
> Muscles feel full but without the watery look.
> 
> I am not using an AI and i have not once had any symptoms of gyno as i would have if i was using tren.
> 
> Im not sure if this is because the Test is low and i am using proviron which keeps E2 in a stable good range and to be honest i dont want to find out as "why fix something thats not broken".
> 
> overall at the moment i have no side effects however i guess ill have to get a blood test in due course to see what could be going on inside.
> 
> On another note, how is NPP typically meant to be on lipids if you compare it to Test (which does not really affect my lipids) and Tren & orals (wrecks lipids). Somewhere in the middle, around the same as test or more in line with Tren?


 I always get water on Test E even at low doses. Switching to Test prop drops the water, even at pretty high doses. NPP is moderate compound when it comes to water, it could lead to some water due to progestin and E2 conversion as well.

If you are you bulking, the higher calorie intake will make you watery, that comes with the territory. It's gonna be one of these things

Your water is probably coming from high calories and/or test E+NPP. Looking watery is part of the bulking process, focus all your energy on getting stronger and building muscle. Once you cut, you will see the fruits of your labors.

NPP isn't so bad on lipids, more like test. Tren and winstrol are the worst and will cook your HDL very fast.


----------



## zariph

Can you recommend any supplements/foods to reduce prolactin?

Do you have any bulletproof liver supplements that you suggest if running multiple orals at once?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can you recommend any supplements/foods to reduce prolactin?
> 
> Do you have any bulletproof liver supplements that you suggest if running multiple orals at once?


 The best liver supp is TUDCA or UDCA at 250-500 mg daily, and you can stack it with NAC @ 1,000 mg daily for extra insurance.

Some say vitamin B6 helps with prolactin, you are better off finding the source of prolactin or taking caber/prami than trying to use a supplement for it. Prolactin can be elevated by orgasm, a tumour and sometimes AAS (tren/deca).


----------



## pma111

Even though vitamin d3 and zinc can help optimise natural testosterone (are there any others that assist out of interest?), are there any specific natural supports to help the all important free testosterone score.

If your total test score is decent but free test below par what are the common culprits.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Want to stay away from tren this summer due to health and longevity becoming a priority.

So ditched plan to run 150mg test 300mg tren E for a few months.

I want to blast something though (currently been cruising on 150mg test for 5 months).

What would you suggest? I thought Deca at 250mg a week, even though I'm cutting to a low bf% - would be worried about water and it impeding my look (although I doubt I'll ever get near the tren look).

Would npp be a better option for aesthetics, cutting and water? What's the least it can be jabbed? 2 or 3 days PW?

Orals again like tren avoiding due to being down there on the health priority list.

thanks buddy


----------



## arbffgadm100

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Want to stay away from tren this summer due to health and longevity becoming a priority.
> 
> So ditched plan to run 150mg test 300mg tren E for a few months.
> 
> I want to blast something though (currently been cruising on 150mg test for 5 months).
> 
> What would you suggest? I thought Deca at 250mg a week, even though I'm cutting to a low bf% - would be worried about water and it impeding my look (although I doubt I'll ever get near the tren look).
> 
> Would npp be a better option for aesthetics, cutting and water? What's the least it can be jabbed? 2 or 3 days PW?
> 
> Orals again like tren avoiding due to being down there on the health priority list.
> 
> thanks buddy


 I am presently cutting (while recovering from surgery) on 150 test and 200 deca (with 20mg var). It's going fine.

I believe NPP might be better but I just can't be arsed with the extra jabs given that I can fit all my oil into 1x1ml 'slin pin, once a week (0.5ml 400mg/ml deca + 0.5ml 300mg/ml test).

I also believe @ElChapo has said numerous times that NPP and test prop are fine twice a week.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Want to stay away from tren this summer due to health and longevity becoming a priority.
> 
> So ditched plan to run 150mg test 300mg tren E for a few months.
> 
> I want to blast something though (currently been cruising on 150mg test for 5 months).
> 
> What would you suggest? I thought Deca at 250mg a week, even though I'm cutting to a low bf% - would be worried about water and it impeding my look (although I doubt I'll ever get near the tren look).
> 
> Would npp be a better option for aesthetics, cutting and water? What's the least it can be jabbed? 2 or 3 days PW?
> 
> Orals again like tren avoiding due to being down there on the health priority list.
> 
> thanks buddy


 You can try NPP, it's drier than deca. You can do NPP twice a week or three times a week. I would throw in 50 mg winstrol too for 12-16 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Even though vitamin d3 and zinc can help optimise natural testosterone (are there any others that assist out of interest?), are there any specific natural supports to help the all important free testosterone score.
> 
> If your total test score is decent but free test below par what are the common culprits.


 Vitamin D3, zinc, sufficient fat intake (50 g a day), and lifting weights. Cardio can increase DHT.

I've seen some research that tongkat ali can increase total and free test.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> You can try NPP, it's drier than deca. You can do NPP twice a week or three times a week. I would throw in 50 mg winstrol too for 12-16 weeks.





arbffgadm100 said:


> I am presently cutting (while recovering from surgery) on 150 test and 200 deca (with 20mg var). It's going fine.
> 
> I believe NPP might be better but I just can't be arsed with the extra jabs given that I can fit all my oil into 1x1ml 'slin pin, once a week (0.5ml 400mg/ml deca + 0.5ml 300mg/ml test).
> 
> I also believe @ElChapo has said numerous times that NPP and test prop are fine twice a week.


 Thanks chaps, as always.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think about synephrine as a pre workout ? and compared to ephedrine ?

I stopped ECA 2 years ago because of the crash/anxiety It gives hours after taking it , but I loved how it made me feel/fat loss as a bonus.

I've got some synephrine and I know it's not as good as ephedrine, but could it help fat loss WITHOUT any crash/anxiety feeling ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about synephrine as a pre workout ? and compared to ephedrine ?
> 
> I stopped ECA 2 years ago because of the crash/anxiety It gives hours after taking it , but I loved how it made me feel/fat loss as a bonus.
> 
> I've got some synephrine and I know it's not as good as ephedrine, but could it help fat loss WITHOUT any crash/anxiety feeling ?


 Any stimulant type fat burner will lead to a tolerance and crash, it comes with the territory. It's still an adrenaline analogue. some people claim synephrine is nowhere near as potent


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Currently running 500iu of hcg on my low dose cut (150 test e and 200 mast e) can i do 500iu all in one go (sub q)straight after my test and mast injection (IM) or is it best to split it and say do 250iu on the Monday when i do my test and mast and 250iu on the Thursday?

Cheers mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Currently running 500iu of hcg on my low dose cut (150 test e and 200 mast e) can i do 500iu all in one go (sub q)straight after my test and mast injection (IM) or is it best to split it and say do 250iu on the Monday when i do my test and mast and 250iu on the Thursday?
> 
> Cheers mate.


 I recommend bumping that to 1,000-1,500 iu. Ideally split 2-3 per week.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> I recommend bumping that to 1,000-1,500 iu. Ideally split 2-3 per week.


 Im currently in week 7 and had bloods done last week and my e2 is 104nmol on the scale of 70-149nmol so near enough in the middle, im figured out my ai dosage on 150 test e so ive got a rough guide when i blast and ive seen to sorted it with 0.25 adex. i wanted to start on 500iu to see how i go as i dont want it affecting my e2 reading much, Im getting bloods done again in 5 weeks and if the 500iu a week hasnt raised it il up it to 1000iu a week. I havent used hcg before so i dont know how sensitive i am to it. What do you recon? Thank you mate!


----------



## energize17

What is a good power PCT protocol for coming off an 8 month blast and cruise? HCG not used during either phase.


----------



## JBlast

Currently finding a cruise dose without needing to take an ai. I tried 150mg prop per week (50mg 3 times per week), but I got a little of tenderness around the nipples so I took half tablet of Aromasin (6.25mg) and lowered to 120mg per week. I still get the same tenderness around the nipples, is it possible I am so estrogen sensitive?.. I want normal estrogen levels without needing an ai, I am currently judging they are higher than normal by tenderness around the nipples (I will add a little of npp or masteron on top). So (judging first by nipples then I will do bloodwork to confirm) I need to lower my dosage to 90mg per week of test prop (30mg 3x per week).?


----------



## ElChapo

energize17 said:


> What is a good power PCT protocol for coming off an 8 month blast and cruise? HCG not used during either phase.


 Ideally, you should use HCG so that the leydig cells stay active. Use it or lose it applies here. Next time make sure to run hcg or hmg.

I recommend clomid 100 mg for 6-8 weeks, then re-test total testosterone 6-8 weeks later after you come off. The longer you blast without hcg, the less likely you are to successfully recover. This is even worse when you run nandrolone and tren.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Im currently in week 7 and had bloods done last week and my e2 is 104nmol on the scale of 70-149nmol so near enough in the middle, im figured out my ai dosage on 150 test e so ive got a rough guide when i blast and ive seen to sorted it with 0.25 adex. i wanted to start on 500iu to see how i go as i dont want it affecting my e2 reading much, Im getting bloods done again in 5 weeks and if the 500iu a week hasnt raised it il up it to 1000iu a week. I havent used hcg before so i dont know how sensitive i am to it. What do you recon? Thank you mate!


 It may or may not increase E2 enough to make a difference. We can't tell until you do it.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Currently finding a cruise dose without needing to take an ai. I tried 150mg prop per week (50mg 3 times per week), but I got a little of tenderness around the nipples so I took half tablet of Aromasin (6.25mg) and lowered to 120mg per week. I still get the same tenderness around the nipples, is it possible I am so estrogen sensitive?.. I want normal estrogen levels without needing an ai, I am currently judging they are higher than normal by tenderness around the nipples (I will add a little of npp or masteron on top). So (judging first by nipples then I will do bloodwork to confirm) I need to lower my dosage to 90mg per week of test prop (30mg 3x per week).?


 At a certain point, lowering test too low will stop you from getting the benefits. I would get labs on 150 mg test prop per week + 25 mg aromasin per week.

You want total t between 700-1,000 ng/dL and E2 between 20-42 pg/mL. you can google calculators to do the conversions.


----------



## energize17

ElChapo said:


> Ideally, you should use HCG so that the leydig cells stay active. Use it or lose it applies here. Next time make sure to run hcg or hmg.
> 
> I recommend clomid 100 mg for 6-8 weeks, then re-test total testosterone 6-8 weeks later after you come off. The longer you blast without hcg, the less likely you are to successfully recover. This is even worse when you run nandrolone and tren.


 would you recommend using HCG during the 6-8 week PCT period at 1000iu eod for the first 3 weeks or so? what about Nolva too?


----------



## ElChapo

energize17 said:


> would you recommend using HCG during the 6-8 week PCT period at 1000iu eod for the first 3 weeks or so? what about Nolva too?


 No because we are trying to stimulate your own production of LH/FSH, taking HCG will shut this off. HCG should only be used during AAS period ideally.

Nolvadex is a weak gonadotropin stimulant, clomid does the heavy lifting.


----------



## Redsy

Appetite suppressant?

Am running test p, 200mg/wk, 50mg winny ed.

Am road cycling 5days per week now about 12hrs, 2/3 X gym.

Am eating like a horse now volume of exercise has increased Trying to lose some weight now, need a stone off. Am about 11%bf. However, am gaining weight 1lb per week.

Am introducing EQ this next jab and dropping winny.

Had cut with clen, caffeine, yohimbine and test p at 125mg.

I know I need to cut cals, but anything to help reduce hunger pangs.


----------



## JBlast

ElChapo said:


> At a certain point, lowering test too low will stop you from getting the benefits. I would get labs on 150 mg test prop per week + 25 mg aromasin per week.
> 
> You want total t between 700-1,000 ng/dL and E2 between 20-42 pg/mL. you can google calculators to do the conversions.


 I through I could use test just to get enough estrogen/dht (like a prohormone) then I will add another androgen more anabolic than test in conjuction (npp or dhb or maaaybe tren). That's because I would use the least amount of test to get optimal levels of estrogen (and dht) without needing an ai.

My theories are wrong?


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Appetite suppressant?
> 
> Am running test p, 200mg/wk, 50mg winny ed.
> 
> Am road cycling 5days per week now about 12hrs, 2/3 X gym.
> 
> Am eating like a horse now volume of exercise has increased Trying to lose some weight now, need a stone off. Am about 11%bf. However, am gaining weight 1lb per week.
> 
> Am introducing EQ this next jab and dropping winny.
> 
> Had cut with clen, caffeine, yohimbine and test p at 125mg.
> 
> I know I need to cut cals, but anything to help reduce hunger pangs.


 Ephedrine, superdrol, MK 677 are effective for a lot of people.

What's your fat/carb/protein split like and how many calories are you roughly consuming?

Anecdotally, EQ is known for increasing hunger.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> I through I could use test just to get enough estrogen/dht (like a prohormone) then I will add another androgen more anabolic than test in conjuction (npp or dhb or maaaybe tren). That's because I would use the least amount of test to get optimal levels of estrogen (and dht) without needing an ai.
> 
> My theories are wrong?


 There are things testosterone does as testosterone and not E2/DHT and there are many more metabolites other than E2/DHT that come from testosterone.

Build your muscle with a blast of AAS then maintain on a low-moderate dose of test (200-300 mg per week), do cardio to protect your heart and health. Rinse, repeat until desired muscularity is achieved. This is the "healthiest"approach to bodybuilding. Cruising on AAS like tren is a terrible idea. It wreaks havoc on the cardiovascular system, you won't see the damage in blood work.

You need blood work to see your actual E2 levels, tender nipples although a symptom of higher E2 , are not going to tell you where your E2 levels are at.


----------



## Ferenor

Happy 6000+ posts


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> Ephedrine, superdrol, MK 677 are effective for a lot of people.
> 
> What's your fat/carb/protein split like and how many calories are you roughly consuming?
> 
> Anecdotally, EQ is known for increasing hunger.


 Ephedrine worked well but I can no longer source in UK. Mk677 does that affect cardio? Don't want to comprise cardio now am back on bike.

I was low carb and 1500cals cutting for a month.

Relaxed cals now and weight increasing. Am back to high carb, moderate fat/protein. Now am back on carbs, crave and give into sugar at minute. Maintenance cals (without exercise) 2200 cals. Probably eating 3000.

However, an hour on bike I understand is 5-600 cals/Hr.

Though should I take exercise into account for maintenance/cutting?

Yeah, heard EQ is meant to increase hunger. Only in 200mg/wk, second jab today of it.

Do I just need to get some focus back on diet !! Probably


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Ephedrine worked well but I can no longer source in UK. Mk677 does that affect cardio? Don't want to comprise cardio now am back on bike.
> 
> I was low carb and 1500cals cutting for a month.
> 
> Relaxed cals now and weight increasing. Am back to high carb, moderate fat/protein. Now am back on carbs, crave and give into sugar at minute. Maintenance cals (without exercise) 2200 cals. Probably eating 3000.
> 
> However, an hour on bike I understand is 5-600 cals/Hr.
> 
> Though should I take exercise into account for maintenance/cutting?
> 
> Yeah, heard EQ is meant to increase hunger. Only in 200mg/wk, second jab today of it.
> 
> Do I just need to get some focus back on diet !! Probably


 Run your stats through https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

Use Katch-Mcardle

mk677 should not affect cardio. sorry didnt mean to add mk677, that will actually make you hungrier. Disregard


----------



## Ferenor

ElChapo said:


> Run your stats through https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/
> 
> Use Katch-Mcardle
> 
> mk677 should not affect cardio. sorry didnt mean to add mk677, that will actually make you hungrier. Disregard


 How do you measure bodyfat?


----------



## Redsy

Ferenor said:


> How do you measure bodyfat?


 I use combination of bf calipers and scales. Calipers probably more accurate but you can see trends in scales easily


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> How do you measure bodyfat?


 Visual estimation and this caliper method is fairly accurate:


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo is it pointless doing cardio whilst on beta blockers? Took some this morning and couldn't get my heart rate above 120 when usually I keep it between 140/150. Would I still reap the cardiovascular benefits of doing the 30 minutes of cardio or is it not worth it. I'm not interested in the mental benefits of cardio just heart health.


----------



## didsmith

ElChapo said:


> The best liver supp is TUDCA or UDCA at 250-500 mg daily, and you can stack it with NAC @ 1,000 mg daily for extra insurance.
> 
> Some say vitamin B6 helps with prolactin, you are better off finding the source of prolactin or taking caber/prami than trying to use a supplement for it. Prolactin can be elevated by orgasm, a tumour and sometimes AAS (tren/deca).


 Hi ELChapo....many many thanks for all your hard work on this site..absolutely top level advice and assistance

Could i have your thoughts on using Mucuna Pruiens Extract Standardized to L-Dopa 99% to control prolactin on say using anadrol in the 50 mg range

have read basic studies that show some control in using l-dopa in the 500mg to 750 mg a day dosage but is this just bro science with nothing to back it up?

many thanks and regards


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo is it pointless doing cardio whilst on beta blockers? Took some this morning and couldn't get my heart rate above 120 when usually I keep it between 140/150. Would I still reap the cardiovascular benefits of doing the 30 minutes of cardio or is it not worth it. I'm not interested in the mental benefits of cardio just heart health.


 Yeah, you will still be burning calories and getting health benefits. Beta blockers are technically the opposite of fat burners like ephedrine which are beta activators or "beta receptor agonists".


----------



## ElChapo

didsmith said:


> Hi ELChapo....many many thanks for all your hard work on this site..absolutely top level advice and assistance
> 
> Could i have your thoughts on using Mucuna Pruiens Extract Standardized to L-Dopa 99% to control prolactin on say using anadrol in the 50 mg range
> 
> have read basic studies that show some control in using l-dopa in the 500mg to 750 mg a day dosage but is this just bro science with nothing to back it up?
> 
> many thanks and regards


 Some people report positive effects, it's worth a try if you feel prolactin is a problem for you.


----------



## stewedw

If running 1.2g of test alongside 75mg winny (8 weeks) then dropping the winny for the last six, would you run an ai if "not" fyno prone to keep e2 in checkor allow the body to bloat? I've see top powerlifters and old school bodybuilders ignore ai use claiming the estra estrogen helps with growth..... Is this nonsense?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> If running 1.2g of test alongside 75mg winny (8 weeks) then dropping the winny for the last six, would you run an ai if "not" fyno prone to keep e2 in checkor allow the body to bloat? I've see top powerlifters and old school bodybuilders ignore ai use claiming the estra estrogen helps with growth..... Is this nonsense?


 Honestly don't know, it's one of those anecdotal things. High estrogen can actually block some of the positive effects of testosterone in the body. We need some estrogen for optimal IGF-1 signaling and insulin sensitivity. High E2 will increase prostate growth and can itself sometimes exacerbate hair loss, high BP, etc.

I'm not one to run AI if no symptoms are present but when levels get over 80 pg/mL, the risk of blood clot, stroke, heart attack are much higher.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Honestly don't know, it's one of those anecdotal things. High estrogen can actually block some of the positive effects of testosterone in the body. We need some estrogen for optimal IGF-1 signaling and insulin sensitivity. High E2 will increase prostate growth and can itself sometimes exacerbate hair loss, high BP, etc.
> 
> I'm not one to run AI if no symptoms are present but when levels get over 80 pg/mL, the risk of blood clot, stroke, heart attack are much higher.


 So in essence run a smallish dose of aromasin mwf 12.5mg or so to keep of from ballooning then?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> So in essence run a smallish dose of aromasin mwf 12.5mg or so to keep of from ballooning then?


 Yeah, it's okay to have it on the higher side , but excessive E2 probably has diminishing returns and poor risk/reward.


----------



## pma111

Why is it high estrogen may exacerbate hair loss,is it something to do with high estrogen supressing thyroid and therefore circulation. Or another mechanism.

Also out of interest how does low estrogen affect heart health,does it lower nitric oxide or similar?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Why is it high estrogen may exacerbate hair loss,is it something to do with high estrogen supressing thyroid and therefore circulation. Or another mechanism.
> 
> Also out of interest how does low estrogen affect heart health,does it lower nitric oxide or similar?


 Nobody knows, male pattern hairloss is pretty much still a mystery.

Estrogen is important for optimal lipids, insulin sensitivity and probably has some effect on nitric oxide too.

Low E2 can lead to erectile dysfunction which is one of the best signs that the cardiovascular system is being impaired in some way.


----------



## zariph

Which steroids have the worst long term side effects, and what are these sides generally?


----------



## Simon90

Is there any benefit to running more than 250mg test on a cut or will that alone be okay?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Which steroids have the worst long term side effects, and what are these sides generally?


 Tren and winstrol are very harsh on lipids, long-term chronic use will likely lead to heart and cardiovascular calcification. Orals can be very bad for the liver if alcohol or other drugs are abused while on them or if high doses are taken for a very long time.

With responsible use, risk should be minimal for any AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Is there any benefit to running more than 250mg test on a cut or will that alone be okay?


 I like 300 mg, that's where it really starts to enhance body composition.


----------



## pma111

Can zinc lead to lower e2 as a natural ai. Or will its effects be minimal. Ive seen it touted as a natural ai but presume like with most vitamin/mineral supplements its strength will be no where near proper pharmaceuticals like adex.

Have you any thoughts why high e2 is a risk factor stroke, does it raise bp or something? Or another mechanism.

As high and low e2 share many similar symptoms, are there any specific symptoms for each group to guess where you may be at on the scale.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Can zinc lead to lower e2 as a natural ai. Or will its effects be minimal. Ive seen it touted as a natural ai but presume like with most vitamin/mineral supplements its strength will be no where near proper pharmaceuticals like adex.
> 
> Have you any thoughts why high e2 is a risk factor stroke, does it raise bp or something? Or another mechanism.
> 
> As high and low e2 share many similar symptoms, are there any specific symptoms for each group to guess where you may be at on the scale.


 Minimal to zero effect, however, zinc deficiency has been linked to higher E2 receptor and lower androgen receptor count in the body.

Bunch of factors, increases coagulation of blood so higher risk of blood clot/stroke/heart attack. Also increases artery thickening. There's a lot of factors involved. In women it's believe to have a protective effect, and in men, the ideal range is good for the heart. Too little and too much is bad in their own ways for your cardiovascular system.

High E2 : water retention, gyno, mood swings, anger/depression, low or normal sex drive, erectile dysfunction

Low E2 : apathy, low sex drive, some people get dry skin, erectile dysfunction

That's a few of them, trying to guess E2 with symptoms only is a losing battle. I recommend blood work for everyone until you get an idea of where your levels are at and what kind of AI usage you require.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I've been thinking of trying HGH lately , I 'd like to try 3IU M/W/F for 2 months + 250mg test I'm on right now.

My goals are : better recovery , healing properties after surgery , more muscle cells , fat loss/strength gains may be really minimal but it's a bonus.

It would cost quite much even with those low dose tho , would you think it's a good idea or stupid idea and not worth it at all?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've been thinking of trying HGH lately , I 'd like to try 3IU M/W/F for 2 months + 250mg test I'm on right now.
> 
> My goals are : better recovery , healing properties after surgery , more muscle cells , fat loss/strength gains may be really minimal but it's a bonus.
> 
> It would cost quite much even with those low dose tho , would you think it's a good idea or stupid idea and not worth it at all?


 GH is overrated and not worth the money for most. Chinese generics are fairly affordable, so if you are an advanced lifter or bodybuilder who needs to get to the next level with GH/slin, then it's required, but for most people it's a waste of money.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo Like the others have said, your contributions are greatly appreciated

In addition to HGH or GH peptides, is it significant and noteworthy as an IGF 1 increase to drink milk? Say a half to a full liter a day? And would it make sense to drink even more?

Also, is there anything else worth doing to significantly bump up GH/IGF 1 levels? I assume training and sleep also bumps it up, but perhaps supplememt/food wise?


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> GH is overrated and not worth the money for most. Chinese generics are fairly affordable, so if you are an advanced lifter or bodybuilder who needs to get to the next level with GH/slin, then it's required, but for most people it's a waste of money.


 What about people who are the wrong side of 45 (me) are there any benefits for the older person that are not bodybuilding related thanks


----------



## Baka

Sasnak said:


> What about people who are the wrong side of 45 (me) are there any benefits for the older person that are not bodybuilding related thanks


 anti-aging mostly i think , which is quite good.

If I have the money , when I'll be 40+ I'll take HGH for sure


----------



## shay1490

ElChapo said:


> Arimidex does not reverse gyno, only Nolvadex/raloxifene does.
> 
> You can take nolvadex to stop it from getting worse and if you're lucky it might reverse it while you are on cycle. This is more likely to happen if you control your E2 with an AI while you take the test and nolvadex.


 Right, so ive been taking nolvadex 20mg for 4 weeks now, and arimidex as well 1mg eod.

Not sure what's going on, some days , my nipples are tiny and makes my chest looks aesthetic, however some other days, the gyno/puffiness really flares up

seriously thinking about going on letro now....

The fluctuations are crazy, i can wake up with the smallest flattest nipples, then by bed time, they balloon up


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo Like the others have said, your contributions are greatly appreciated
> 
> In addition to HGH or GH peptides, is it significant and noteworthy as an IGF 1 increase to drink milk? Say a half to a full liter a day? And would it make sense to drink even more?
> 
> Also, is there anything else worth doing to significantly bump up GH/IGF 1 levels? I assume training and sleep also bumps it up, but perhaps supplememt/food wise?


 I'm a big proponent of dairy for muscle building and believe the IGF-1 increase is great. Dairy also contains other peptide and growth factors. I believe when Arnold said "Milk is for babies, drink beer" he was trolling his rivals and throwing them off like he was known to do.

Nothing besides dairy consumption that would make any difference.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> What about people who are the wrong side of 45 (me) are there any benefits for the older person that are not bodybuilding related thanks


 After age 35, 1-2 IU daily will do the job for anti-aging.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> Right, so ive been taking nolvadex 20mg for 4 weeks now, and arimidex as well 1mg eod.
> 
> Not sure what's going on, some days , my nipples are tiny and makes my chest looks aesthetic, however some other days, the gyno/puffiness really flares up
> 
> seriously thinking about going on letro now....
> 
> The fluctuations are crazy, i can wake up with the smallest flattest nipples, then by bed time, they balloon up


 Letro will do jack s**t for gyno.

You NEED to give nolvadex 6-12 weeks minimum. People think it doesn't work because they are impatient.

After 8-12 weeks gyno should be gone or significantly shrunken.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Tren and winstrol are very harsh on lipids, long-term chronic use will likely lead to heart and cardiovascular calcification. Orals can be very bad for the liver if alcohol or other drugs are abused while on them or if high doses are taken for a very long time.
> 
> With responsible use, risk should be minimal for any AAS.


 thx, I mean more like which has the worst sides if used 12 weeks then go off, repeat, I know winny is harsh on lipids but will get back to normal after few months


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thx, I mean more like which has the worst sides if used 12 weeks then go off, repeat, I know winny is harsh on lipids but will get back to normal after few months


 Winstrol only affects lipids and sometimes joints/muscle stiffness in some people

Tren can f**k up your mood, erections and libido and also cooks your lipids. It has the worst side effects of any steroids.


----------



## crunch13

First of all @ElChapo, thanks for the wealth of information you have provided here.

This possibly isn't AAS related but I hope you may have some input.

I used winstrol last summer at 50mg daily for 8 weeks and during this time I had an episode of quite bad edema, mainly in the ankles. Unsure if it was because of the winstrol or just a coincidence but it went away after I stopped.

I did some reading and was quite concerned about kidney function. After reading, I became aware that foamy urine was another symptom of kidney trouble and I also had this. I'm not sure if I already had this because I never knew it was abnormal.

Seen GP a couple of times, apperently no sign of proteinuria, my serum urea level is always slightly above range, creatinine in range, 3 gfr results - 70, 80 and most recent >90 so GP not interested.

But still I have extremely foamy urine to this day and they cannot explain why. Water intake is 4 litres per day. Should I stop worrying?


----------



## ElChapo

crunch13 said:


> First of all @ElChapo, thanks for the wealth of information you have provided here.
> 
> This possibly isn't AAS related but I hope you may have some input.
> 
> I used winstrol last summer at 50mg daily for 8 weeks and during this time I had an episode of quite bad edema, mainly in the ankles. Unsure if it was because of the winstrol or just a coincidence but it went away after I stopped.
> 
> I did some reading and was quite concerned about kidney function. After reading, I became aware that foamy urine was another symptom of kidney trouble and I also had this. I'm not sure if I already had this because I never knew it was abnormal.
> 
> Seen GP a couple of times, apperently no sign of proteinuria, my serum urea level is always slightly above range, creatinine in range, 3 gfr results - 70, 80 and most recent >90 so GP not interested.
> 
> But still I have extremely foamy urine to this day and they cannot explain why. Water intake is 4 litres per day. Should I stop worrying?


 I would consult a nephrologist to get everything cleared.


----------



## crunch13

ElChapo said:


> I would consult a nephrologist to get everything cleared.


 Ok thanks. Any tips on how I could go about getting a referral? As I say, my gp isn't interested currently.

And would you discontinue aas use for now?


----------



## shay1490

ElChapo said:


> Letro will do jack s**t for gyno.
> 
> You NEED to give nolvadex 6-12 weeks minimum. People think it doesn't work because they are impatient.
> 
> After 8-12 weeks gyno should be gone or significantly shrunken.


 thats it, getting another box, should i keep it at 20, or bump it?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I'm a big proponent of dairy for muscle building and believe the IGF-1 increase is great. Dairy also contains other peptide and growth factors. I believe when Arnold said "Milk is for babies, drink beer" he was trolling his rivals and throwing them off like he was known to do.
> 
> Nothing besides dairy consumption that would make any difference.


 Yummi! I guess I will drink a liter per day


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo do you know how significant the neuro/synaptogenesis from hgh/igf 1 is? I already consider myself an intelligent guy but I have to say, feels as if hgh dramatically boosted my cognitive faculties, especially memory, concentration and fluidity in speech


----------



## ElChapo

crunch13 said:


> Ok thanks. Any tips on how I could go about getting a referral? As I say, my gp isn't interested currently.
> 
> And would you discontinue aas use for now?


 Depends on your country, insurance, etc. I wouldn't have that information. Can you switch GP? A shitty GP is a terrible thing to have.

I wouldn't discontinue AAS, but don't go crazy with harsh compounds, doses and cycle lengths. Do research, find a good nephro and get a referral.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> thats it, getting another box, should i keep it at 20, or bump it?


 20 mg nolvadex, or 60 mg raloxifene 6-12 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo do you know how significant the neuro/synaptogenesis from hgh/igf 1 is? I already consider myself an intelligent guy but I have to say, feels as if hgh dramatically boosted my cognitive faculties, especially memory, concentration and fluidity in speech


 GH has been shown to be healthy for neurons in some studies i read. Anecdotally, a lot of people report what you do. It's probably one of the reasons older people have diminished cognition and memory problems.


----------



## Frandeman

Sasnak said:


> What about people who are the wrong side of 45 (me) are there any benefits for the older person that are not bodybuilding related thanks


 We can't afford proper GH mate

Everything else is just an imitation of the real thing


----------



## lewdylewd

@El Chapo what can you tell me about a wide pulse pressure.

I had a very high systolic blood pressure but have recently got it to a safer level through cardio, diet, cutting gear use, and a low dose (2.5mg) of prescribed rampril.

However I still have a crazy wide pulse pressure this morning I was like 140/65.


----------



## TITO

@arbffgadm100

@El Chapo

i really want to start learning jujitsu but worried how it will affect my training recovery etc? (Also nervous as fcuk)

any tips on structuring a routine around it?

say if I train jujitsu 2-3 times per week?


----------



## ElChapo

lewdylewd said:


> @El Chapo what can you tell me about a wide pulse pressure.
> 
> I had a very high systolic blood pressure but have recently got it to a safer level through cardio, diet, cutting gear use, and a low dose (2.5mg) of prescribed rampril.
> 
> However I still have a crazy wide pulse pressure this morning I was like 140/65.


 You want to bring top number down to 100-130 mmhg


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @arbffgadm100
> 
> @El Chapo
> 
> i really want to start learning jujitsu but worried how it will affect my training recovery etc? (Also nervous as fcuk)
> 
> any tips on structuring a routine around it?
> 
> say if I train jujitsu 2-3 times per week?


 You will have to cut back on volume. Looking big and knowing how to fight are two different things.

What are your priorities from gym training? Strength? muscle? Maintenance?


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> You will have to cut back on volume. Looking big and knowing how to fight are two different things.
> 
> What are your priorities from gym training? Strength? muscle? Maintenance?


 It's all ways been muscle but I'm at a point where I'm happy with what I have so I'm looking to maintain whilst giving bjj a go.

Happy to drop weights sessions down to 3x per week. What split/exercises would you recommend? Maybe a ppl with just the basic compound? Rep range?

thanks for your help mate


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> It's all ways been muscle but I'm at a point where I'm happy with what I have so I'm looking to maintain whilst giving bjj a go.
> 
> Happy to drop weights sessions down to 3x per week. What split/exercises would you recommend? Maybe a ppl with just the basic compound? Rep range?
> 
> thanks for your help mate


 You only have to hit your muscle once a week hard to maintain. I would cut back strength training to 2-3 times per week. You can maintain muscle by hitting each muscle group with high intensity once a week.

Basic compounds are a good idea, you hit multiple muscles at once so you save time and energy for jiujitsu. Bench will hit delts, triceps and chest, squats or deads will hit the entire lower body. Weighted chin ups will hit biceps, lats, etc. Rep range anywhere from 5-15 is fine, down to preference. Just try to maintain your strength and you won't lose muscle.


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> You only have to hit your muscle once a week hard to maintain. I would cut back strength training to 2-3 times per week. You can maintain muscle by hitting each muscle group with high intensity once a week.
> 
> Basic compounds are a good idea, you hit multiple muscles at once so you save time and energy for jiujitsu. Bench will hit delts, triceps and chest, squats or deads will hit the entire lower body. Weighted chin ups will hit biceps, lats, etc. Rep range anywhere from 5-15 is fine, down to preference. Just try to maintain your strength and you won't lose muscle.


 That's perfect thanks mate


----------



## Pancake'

How long would you say? it typically takes for someone to get 'fit' improving overall cardiovascular health & fitness.

Could you briefly explain again the differences on the heart between jogging and sprinting and if either which one is best?

How much protein can you absorb in a sitting?

How important do you think a reach advantage is in combat sports?

What do you think should or would maintain a very dense muscular 200lb 8-12% physique. cruise wise.

For the user that opts to cycle on/off, and wishes to experiment with nandrolone, given the suppressive nature of nandrolone, should their be a considerable difference in recovery running NPP>Deca?

Is their any way, that one can improve their drug tolerance enabling them to tolerate higher doses of AAS and or stims?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> How long would you say? it typically takes for someone to get 'fit' improving overall cardiovascular health & fitness.
> 
> Could you briefly explain again the differences on the heart between jogging and sprinting and if either which one is best?
> 
> How much protein can you absorb in a sitting?
> 
> How important do you think a reach advantage is in combat sports?
> 
> What do you think should or would maintain a very dense muscular 200lb 8-12% physique. cruise wise.
> 
> For the user that opts to cycle on/off, and wishes to experiment with nandrolone, given the suppressive nature of nandrolone, should their be a considerable difference in recovery running NPP>Deca?
> 
> Is their any way, that one can improve their drug tolerance enabling them to tolerate higher doses of AAS and or stims?


 1- 6-8 weeks people will see a sharp increase in endurance in stamina. Most adaptations happen in the first 3 months of training then plataeua and slowly increase thereafter. If you stop training, you start losing your endurance after 2 weeks of inactivity.

2- jogging stretches the heart chambers and makes them bigger and more elastic so they fill up with more blood, sprinting increase the strength of the heart muscle so it pumps more blood per contraction. They both make the heart pump blood more efficiently but the jogging adaptations seem to be more beneficial in the long run.

3- It's useful if you use it properly, lots of guys can't use their range due to poor distance control and foot work. If you lack range, you can make up for it with proper head movement, feinting, and foot work. Mike Tyson did good for himself and so did Rocky Marciano, they had very stocky arms for their weight class. Great punching power helps of course.

4- 500 mg test E or 300 mg test E+GH (3-4 IU daily) . Propionate for dryer and denser looking physique.

5- Both will shut you down hard. NPP clears much faster though, so it would be preferred. Kicks in faster and tends to cause less water retention too.

6- You can develop tolerance to stims via upregulation/downregulation of receptors in the brain ie: caffeine tolerance.

Some people get used to the mental effects of stuff like trenbolone but generally you won't build a tolerance to AAS.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

TITO said:


> That's perfect thanks mate


 Be careful not to overdo it. I suffered pretty severe tenniselbow in the past from doing both kick boxing and weight lifting


----------



## TITO

Dannyb0yb said:


> Be careful not to overdo it. I suffered pretty severe tenniselbow in the past from doing both kick boxing and weight lifting


 im Just gonna do 3 weights day per week, just a push pull leg routine spaced out on non bjj days. Only 3 different exercises each day, with 3 sets max for each movement. So each weights session will be no more than 9 sets and then I'm out of gym recovering. Hoping that's enough to maintain what I have whilst being able to give bjj a fair go. I'll be cruising on low test so should help with recovery also.

if I ever up bjj to 4x week I'll drop another weights day and just do 2 weights sessions a week, like one upper one lower maybe.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

TITO said:


> im Just gonna do 3 weights day per week, just a push pull leg routine spaced out on non bjj days. Only 3 different exercises each day, with 3 sets max for each movement. So each weights session will be no more than 9 sets and then I'm out of gym recovering. Hoping that's enough to maintain what I have whilst being able to give bjj a fair go. I'll be cruising on low test so should help with recovery also.
> 
> if I ever up bjj to 4x week I'll drop another weights day and just do 2 weights sessions a week, like one upper one lower maybe.


 Sounds solid


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Is doing cardio (20-30 mins low/medium intesity) after weights a bad idea in terms of maintaining muscle on a cut?

Dont have time to do cardio in the morning so do it after the weight session


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is doing cardio (20-30 mins low/medium intesity) after weights a bad idea in terms of maintaining muscle on a cut?
> 
> Dont have time to do cardio in the morning so do it after the weight session


 No, it should not affect muscle.

If you start losing strength you will know if you are losing muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> im Just gonna do 3 weights day per week, just a push pull leg routine spaced out on non bjj days. Only 3 different exercises each day, with 3 sets max for each movement. So each weights session will be no more than 9 sets and then I'm out of gym recovering. Hoping that's enough to maintain what I have whilst being able to give bjj a fair go. I'll be cruising on low test so should help with recovery also.
> 
> if I ever up bjj to 4x week I'll drop another weights day and just do 2 weights sessions a week, like one upper one lower maybe.


 This is a good setup.


----------



## Simon90

What training volume/frequency do you think is best on a cut to maintain as much muscle as possible?

Is it simply a case of maintaining strength trying to keep the weights the same each week as the bodyfat drops? And not taking the muscle to failure?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> What training volume/frequency do you think is best on a cut to maintain as much muscle as possible?
> 
> Is it simply a case of maintaining strength trying to keep the weights the same each week as the bodyfat drops? And not taking the muscle to failure?


 Yes, you just need to focus on maintaining the same strength. You only need to hit a muscle once a week to maintain it, as long intensity is 90-100%. Going to failure is not necessary but i like to take the first set to failure at least.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you just need to focus on maintaining the same strength. You only need to hit a muscle once a week to maintain it, as long intensity is 90-100%. Going to failure is not necessary but i like to take the first set to failure at least.


 Thanks again really appreciate the help. I was doing push pull legs twice a week do you think going back to a once a week split would be more beneficial (chest tris, back bis, shoulders traps legs for example.hitting everything once.every seven days? on on off on on off off style) around 8-10 sets a week less for smaller mmuscles


----------



## drwae

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you just need to focus on maintaining the same strength. You only need to hit a muscle once a week to maintain it, as long intensity is 90-100%. Going to failure is not necessary but i like to take the first set to failure at least.


 if you take the first set to failure doesnt it mean you won't be able to get many reps in on subsequent sets?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think about collagen powder?

I'm using Cissus , vitamin C , omega 3 , curcumin for my joints health. I ve got some collagen but I aint using it , should I ? got some shoulder / elbow pain/discomfort atm.


----------



## Endomorph84

drwae said:


> if you take the first set to failure doesnt it mean you won't be able to get many reps in on subsequent sets?


 If you take your first working set to/ or almost failure with good form you shouldn't be able to get anywhere near the same amount of reps with the same weight.

For instance if I did 120kg BB Bench Press for 8 reps to/ or almost failure with good form I'd expect to have to drop the weight to around 95kg in order to be able to complete another set of 8 reps with good form.

Try it man, HIT training is a great way to train.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Im currently running 150 test e with 0.25 adex (cruise) and using it to cut, and nolva 20mg ed for minor gyno. I've put on 5lbs and lost body fat since starting the cruise, now below 15% going to cruise until i get below 12% before doing a lean bulk after. I went from natty after a year off cycling to a cruise to figure my ai dosage out before bulking as had minor gyno from previous cycles and i have worked it out so now losing as much fat as i can before bulking again. Currently in a 600 calorie deficit.

Everytime i do cardio 20 mins after each weight session i keep getting shin pumps and muscle stiffness in my calf's and cramps during the cardio in my hamstrings, im currently not running any orals, diet is clean and drink 3-4 litres water per day. Im constantly on my feet and active for 7 hours a day as i work in construction could that contribute to it?

Cheers mate.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about collagen powder?
> 
> I'm using Cissus , vitamin C , omega 3 , curcumin for my joints health. I ve got some collagen but I aint using it , should I ? got some shoulder / elbow pain/discomfort atm.


 Did you check out the collagen thread under supplement? Good advice there


----------



## Ferenor

What are your thoughts on a low glycemic diet? I mean, my coach makes me eat 100g instant oats, 75g brown rice, 75g spelled pasta, 50g rice cream. I'm asking you this because actually I'm going hypo after few meals and the strange thing is that when I was eating LESS (60g instant oats, a banana, 5 spelled/rice cakes, 80g brown rice) I hadn't these problems.


----------



## Will2309

Been reading that to much oily fish a day can cause type 2 diabetes.

Do you know much about this and iam eating to much ???

I have a tin of mackeral and tuna most day and some days add a tin of salmon.

Cheers


----------



## zariph

Added anavar 10days ago and not all joints hurt, and feeling muscle soreness/pain - doing 50mg ED you heard anavar having these sides before, are they commen when running this?

Also start mast e few weeks ago 600mg a week, could this make joints dry too and soreness?

Appreciate you help very much


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Thanks again really appreciate the help. I was doing push pull legs twice a week do you think going back to a once a week split would be more beneficial (chest tris, back bis, shoulders traps legs for example.hitting everything once.every seven days? on on off on on off off style) around 8-10 sets a week less for smaller mmuscles


 Yeah, once a week split works fine for maintenance. done it myself with good results.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> if you take the first set to failure doesnt it mean you won't be able to get many reps in on subsequent sets?


 Yeah, i usually lose 2 reps in the subsequent sets if i go for failure again.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think about collagen powder?
> 
> I'm using Cissus , vitamin C , omega 3 , curcumin for my joints health. I ve got some collagen but I aint using it , should I ? got some shoulder / elbow pain/discomfort atm.


 I believe collagen can work in some forms.

Google "examine.com collagen"

and take a look.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Im currently running 150 test e with 0.25 adex (cruise) and using it to cut, and nolva 20mg ed for minor gyno. I've put on 5lbs and lost body fat since starting the cruise, now below 15% going to cruise until i get below 12% before doing a lean bulk after. I went from natty after a year off cycling to a cruise to figure my ai dosage out before bulking as had minor gyno from previous cycles and i have worked it out so now losing as much fat as i can before bulking again. Currently in a 600 calorie deficit.
> 
> Everytime i do cardio 20 mins after each weight session i keep getting shin pumps and muscle stiffness in my calf's and cramps during the cardio in my hamstrings, im currently not running any orals, diet is clean and drink 3-4 litres water per day. Im constantly on my feet and active for 7 hours a day as i work in construction could that contribute to it?
> 
> Cheers mate.


 Do you supplement magnesium? It sounds like an electrolyte deficiency.

Magnesium/potassium help muscle cells relax.

Calcium/sodium help them contract.


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> What are your thoughts on a low glycemic diet? I mean, my coach makes me eat 100g instant oats, 75g brown rice, 75g spelled pasta, 50g rice cream. I'm asking you this because actually I'm going hypo after few meals and the strange thing is that when I was eating LESS (60g instant oats, a banana, 5 spelled/rice cakes, 80g brown rice) I hadn't these problems.


 I don't think it's important to avoid sugar or dirty foods. Just to practice moderation, stay lean year round and do cardio regularly.

What you are experiencing is likely reactive hypoglycemia. When you eat the carbs, your body pumps out extra insulin which sucks all the glucose and carb into your cells. This leaves the sugar low in the blood stream. It's fairly common and bening.

Eating solid protein (not powder or shakes) with your meal usually helps and keeping a snack around in case it happens.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Been reading that to much oily fish a day can cause type 2 diabetes.
> 
> Do you know much about this and iam eating to much ???
> 
> I have a tin of mackeral and tuna most day and some days add a tin of salmon.
> 
> Cheers


 Bullshit


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Added anavar 10days ago and not all joints hurt, and feeling muscle soreness/pain - doing 50mg ED you heard anavar having these sides before, are they commen when running this?
> 
> Also start mast e few weeks ago 600mg a week, could this make joints dry too and soreness?
> 
> Appreciate you help very much


 Most likely winstrol instead of anavar or its cut with winstrol. This is common.

Anavar raws are expensive. Winstrols raws are dirt cheap. That's profit if you sell one as the other. Happens all the time.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Most likely winstrol instead of anavar or its cut with winstrol. This is common.
> 
> Anavar raws are expensive. Winstrols raws are dirt cheap. That's profit if you sell one as the other. Happens all the time.


 what I thought too - but you sure that anavar or masteron wont cause this ?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Do you supplement magnesium? It sounds like an electrolyte deficiency.
> 
> Magnesium/potassium help muscle cells relax.
> 
> Calcium/sodium help them contract.


 No i don't use magnesium or potassium come to think of it, i take everything else multi vitamin, zinc, vit d at 2000iu a day, omega fish oils, i haven't got my multi vitamin to hand and the moment but i think that has magnesium in it but il get some magnesium supplements on the weekend and give them a go.

Im also taking NAC at 600mg a day for liver although im not on any orals apart from nolva, i read a study with the interactions with NAC and it says it doesn't cancel out the effects of my other supplements if i take NAC the same Time as them is this true or would you take the NAC separate time from other supplements?

Cheers mate.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> what I thought too - but you sure that anavar or masteron wont cause this ?


 Highly unlikely.

Likelyhood of fake var = high


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> No i don't use magnesium or potassium come to think of it, i take everything else multi vitamin, zinc, vit d at 2000iu a day, omega fish oils, i haven't got my multi vitamin to hand and the moment but i think that has magnesium in it but il get some magnesium supplements on the weekend and give them a go.
> 
> Im also taking NAC at 600mg a day for liver although im not on any orals apart from nolva, i read a study with the interactions with NAC and it says it doesn't cancel out the effects of my other supplements if i take NAC the same Time as them is this true or would you take the NAC separate time from other supplements?
> 
> Cheers mate.


 Multivitamins have very low levels of magnesium, you won't get enough from there.

I recommend Magnesium citrate from NOW foods, very cheap and effective. Take 400 mg at bedtime or with food.

(Just avoid magnesium oxide or sulfate, these are cheap and poorly absorbed. Only use citrate, glycinate, malate, or chelate)

You can get potassium from potatoes and bananas.

Don't bother timing NAC with other supps, you're fine. Take em together.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Highly unlikely.
> 
> Likelyhood of fake var = high


 Okay so if it faked with anything its most likely winny? Or could it be something else you think? Will winny cause the same pump/veiny look as anavar, and what other benefits might appear if it really is winny


----------



## Ferenor

ElChapo said:


> I don't think it's important to avoid sugar or dirty foods. Just to practice moderation, stay lean year round and do cardio regularly.
> 
> What you are experiencing is likely reactive hypoglycemia. When you eat the carbs, your body pumps out extra insulin which sucks all the glucose and carb into your cells. This leaves the sugar low in the blood stream. It's fairly common and bening.
> 
> Eating solid protein (not powder or shakes) with your meal usually helps and keeping a snack around in case it happens.


 Thank you so much for the answer, it made me less worried about.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay so if it faked with anything its most likely winny? Or could it be something else you think? Will winny cause the same pump/veiny look as anavar, and what other benefits might appear if it really is winny


 Winstrol has a drying and vascularity increasing effect. Increases strength too. It's a great compound, but some guys get joint and muscle aches from it. I have a theory that it might be linked to Vitamin D, but not sure.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol has a drying and vascularity increasing effect. Increases strength too. It's a great compound, but some guys get joint and muscle aches from it. I have a theory that it might be linked to Vitamin D, but not sure.


 Sounds good, can I do anything to combat the joint issues? Getting vitamin D 5000aday


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Sounds good, can I do anything to combat the joint issues? Getting vitamin D 5000aday


 Stay hydrated, glucosamine/chondroitin

Have you been taking vit d or starting now?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Multivitamins have very low levels of magnesium, you won't get enough from there.
> 
> I recommend Magnesium citrate from NOW foods, very cheap and effective. Take 400 mg at bedtime or with food.
> 
> (Just avoid magnesium oxide or sulfate, these are cheap and poorly absorbed. Only use citrate, glycinate, malate, or chelate)
> 
> You can get potassium from potatoes and bananas.
> 
> Don't bother timing NAC with other supps, you're fine. Take em together.


 Brilliant, thank you for the information mate, really helpful, will be getting those mag supps the weekend!


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> Bullshit


 Cheers for the reply.


----------



## pma111

Does the quality of diet & food choices on a cut /weight loss challenge have any real baring on true weight loss. If your tdee says 3000 to maintain weight,would someone genuinely consuming 2500 calories of complete and utter crap eg loads of high saturated fat foods, high sugar food & drink etc lose the exact same as someone eating 2500 of 'healthier' whole foods - lower fat meat /veg/ fruit /complex carbs etc.

Does the amount of saturated fat / sugar on a cut impact your weight loss results so long as you are truly in a deficit, in any real way at all. Seen you suggest keep fat low on a bulk (to reduce likelehood of fat gain), does the same apply on a cut?

And are the macro splits shown on tdee calculators and plans like iifym worth trying to adhere to,or can you eat what ever you want and just stick to the calorie count stipulated. I presume there must be some method in the madness on the suggested macro split but how important realistically they are so long as you stick to the calorie target recommended I dont know,any thoughts?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Does the quality of diet & food choices on a cut /weight loss challenge have any real baring on true weight loss. If your tdee says 3000 to maintain weight,would someone genuinely consuming 2500 calories of complete and utter crap eg loads of high saturated fat foods, high sugar food & drink etc lose the exact same as someone eating 2500 of 'healthier' whole foods - lower fat meat /veg/ fruit /complex carbs etc.
> 
> Does the amount of saturated fat / sugar on a cut impact your weight loss results so long as you are truly in a deficit, in any real way at all. Seen you suggest keep fat low on a bulk (to reduce likelehood of fat gain), does the same apply on a cut?
> 
> And are the macro splits shown on tdee calculators and plans like iifym worth trying to adhere to,or can you eat what ever you want and just stick to the calorie count stipulated. I presume there must be some method in the madness on the suggested macro split but how important realistically they are so long as you stick to the calorie target recommended I dont know,any thoughts?


 Yes, you would lose exact same amount of fat. Whole foods tend to be more satiating and fill you up better. I have cut many times to single digit body fat eating fried chicken, pizza and cookies without any fat burners or stimulants. As long as you are in a deficit, you will burn fat.

The composition of your diet will have no effect on fat loss, a professor at a university in the USA went on a twinkie only diet to prove this and he lost a ton of weight and his lab work improved from the fat loss.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/

No, people obsess over macros to their detriment. Obsessing and tracking macros is a waste of mental energy that is much better spent used on focusing on maintaining your deficit. You should aim to get your protein minimum (1 g per lbs of lean body mass) and keep carbs at least at 150 grams or more, otherwise, eat whatever you want and stick to your deficit.

Macros are NOT that important once you hit your minimum protein and carbs.


----------



## Ferenor

ElChapo said:


> I don't think it's important to avoid sugar or dirty foods. Just to practice moderation, stay lean year round and do cardio regularly.
> 
> What you are experiencing is likely reactive hypoglycemia. When you eat the carbs, your body pumps out extra insulin which sucks all the glucose and carb into your cells. This leaves the sugar low in the blood stream. It's fairly common and bening.
> 
> Eating solid protein (not powder or shakes) with your meal usually helps and keeping a snack around in case it happens.


 The funny thing is that my hypo reaction happens in the afternoon at 4 pm, when I had my meal at 3 pm. I think it happens because at that meal I eat powdered carbs (rice cream) and whey isolate. Will swap to solid carbs and solid proteins.


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> The funny thing is that my hypo reaction happens in the afternoon at 4 pm, when I had my meal at 3 pm. I think it happens because at that meal I eat powdered carbs (rice cream) and whey isolate. Will swap to solid carbs and solid proteins.


 This will probably fix your problem.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you would lose exact same amount of fat. Whole foods tend to be more satiating and fill you up better. I have cut many times to single digit body fat eating fried chicken, pizza and cookies without any fat burners or stimulants. As long as you are in a deficit, you will burn fat.
> 
> The composition of your diet will have no effect on fat loss, a professor at a university in the USA went on a twinkie only diet to prove this and he lost a ton of weight and his lab work improved from the fat loss.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
> 
> No, people obsess over macros to their detriment. Obsessing and tracking macros is a waste of mental energy that is much better spent used on focusing on maintaining your deficit. You should aim to get your protein minimum (1 g per lbs of lean body mass) and keep carbs at least at 150 grams or more, otherwise, eat whatever you want and stick to your deficit.
> 
> Macros are NOT that important once you hit your minimum protein and carbs.


 what about from nutrition aspect? surely its better to be consuming plenty of fiber and getting your nutrients from your food rather than multivits that the jury is out on its efficacy

same for complex vs simple carbohydrate, not even just for a satiety pov youd think one would perform better with a slower release of blood glucose rather than spikes and dips

ive always been an advocate of sensible IIFYM but for nothing more than caloric adherence / not going insane from eating rice, asparagus and tilapia but from a performance perspective the 'cleaner' the food the better

even though the twinkie experiment showed and improvement in blood markers from the fat loss there was no measure of performance iirc

with all calories being equal and the same 500kcal deficit most would assume youd perform better in the gym and retain more LBM hitting your macros by way of potatoes, rice, nuts, olive oil, steak, salmon ect than you would from doughnuts, doritoes and fried chicken

ive seen the dip in my own performance in the past from gaining weight for the sake of weight as my digestion goes to s**t causing bloat, headaches from the excessive amounts of sodium and unstable blood sugar levels

not trying to be argumentative here mate just trying to establish that even though alan aragon says "in terms of body composition, macros are all that matter" 
in terms of performance those macronutrient sources DO matter


----------



## Pancake'

Are certain biceps insertions more susceptible to tears than others?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Stay hydrated, glucosamine/chondroitin
> 
> Have you been taking vit d or starting now?


 Been taking that for a long time now so thats not the problem for sure, already using glucosamine/chondroitin too, maybe I should start doing more reps in the 10-12 ranges, doing quite low reps atm th


----------



## drwae

@ElChapomy gp is concerned because i have elevated c-reactive protein. could this be related to AAS?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> what about from nutrition aspect? surely its better to be consuming plenty of fiber and getting your nutrients from your food rather than multivits that the jury is out on its efficacy
> 
> same for complex vs simple carbohydrate, not even just for a satiety pov youd think one would perform better with a slower release of blood glucose rather than spikes and dips
> 
> ive always been an advocate of sensible IIFYM but for nothing more than caloric adherence / not going insane from eating rice, asparagus and tilapia but from a performance perspective the 'cleaner' the food the better
> 
> even though the twinkie experiment showed and improvement in blood markers from the fat loss there was no measure of performance iirc
> 
> with all calories being equal and the same 500kcal deficit most would assume youd perform better in the gym and retain more LBM hitting your macros by way of potatoes, rice, nuts, olive oil, steak, salmon ect than you would from doughnuts, doritoes and fried chicken
> 
> ive seen the dip in my own performance in the past from gaining weight for the sake of weight as my digestion goes to s**t causing bloat, headaches from the excessive amounts of sodium and unstable blood sugar levels
> 
> not trying to be argumentative here mate just trying to establish that even though alan aragon says "in terms of body composition, macros are all that matter"
> in terms of performance those macronutrient sources DO matter


 I'm saying in terms of fat loss/body composition it's irrelevant. In terms of health, whole foods are generally better but people overstate the danger of "dirty foods".

You take a burger or pizza and separate all the ingredients(bread, cheese, meat) into a salad and you would call them "healthy" but in your gut it's all the same.

I agree with IIFYM, it's all about adherence and compliance. Any monkey can get to 7% body fat, but most won't maintain it for longer than a few days or weeks unfortunately.

Doughnuts, doritos and fried chicken would still provide plenty of starch for muscle performance, topped off glycogen stores, etc, However you lose the benefits of the nutrient density of "whole foods" however, the effect on performance would be negligible. Fried chicken is generally not unhealthy, it is more calorically dense but when you seperate the ingredients you are just looking at bread, chicken breast and olive oil = healthy foods.

I also feel like garbage when i am not as lean and eating too much food but i dont attribute that to diet composition. i've regularly cut down to single digit bodyfat eating fried chicken, pizza, etc with no drop in performance. Again, Pizza being cheese, bread and meat still makes it good food there's this taboo when you put it all together and call it a "pizza". It's all about finding balance, i don't advocate eating only junk and crap.

To sum it up , Burger = Beef, bread, cheese, veggies = healthy Pizza = bread, cheese, meat, veggies = healthy Fried chicken = bread, chicken, olive oil = healthy


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Are certain biceps insertions more susceptible to tears than others?


 I would think so, but not to a significant enough degree to matter if you train sensibly. Too many guys loading up a barbell and swinging up and down too much weight for curls. That's usually what causes it. Biceps respond extremely well to perfect form. The rest is just ego lifting.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Been taking that for a long time now so thats not the problem for sure, already using glucosamine/chondroitin too, maybe I should start doing more reps in the 10-12 ranges, doing quite low reps atm th


 I find less strain on joints in the 10-15 rep range with same results. As long as you are in a caloric surplus and increase your weight or reps, you will gain muscle. The rep range is not too important.


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapomy gp is concerned because i have elevated c-reactive protein. could this be related to AAS?


 I doubt it, could be linked to muscle damage from training.

Read up here for more info:

https://selfhacked.com/blog/c-reactive-protein/


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I find less strain on joints in the 10-15 rep range with same results. As long as you are in a caloric surplus and increase your weight or reps, you will gain muscle. The rep range is not too important.


 Thank you for your help!

Can I ask you whats your view on Tren?

How many cycles you think one should have done before trying tren?

Is it worse on arteries etc than NPP?

Do you ever suggest using Tren or you find it has too many side effects to be worth using?
Lastly - How to prevent tren cough and why you think it appears? Will it make any difference using tren E instead of tren a?

Sorry for all the questions, but hope you have time to answer them


----------



## iamyou

What would you say how bad is super low HDL year round? All the other lipids are very low as well. Tren does that to me and it seems to take ages to bounce back... I'll be back on before it does. I was on tren for 7 months.

The way I understand it low HDL is found in people with heart diseases but it doesn't mean it's the cause. There are some conditions that cause nonexistent HDL from birth and those people don't get heart diseases.

Another question... I am not 100% sure about this as I'm going to give it another shot but my libido was incredible on 100mg of prop. The moment I added a high dosage of tren a 600mg and 500mg of mast to it my libido disappeared. I upped prop to 400mg and libido came back but I felt like trash since it brought tren's sides and bloat back. I felt amazing on 100mg. I have to experiment again since I did mess around with letro 2 weeks prior so there is a chance it wasn't the tren. Maybe mast lowered my e2 too much. To be honest my libido was even better on letro but I'll give low test another go. Mast did nothing except make my face sink in. No amount of tren or letro has given me that look before. I'll keep using it for that reason mainly.

Do you have an explanation why my libido seems to vanish with low test high tren? Seems silly to take a high dosage of test for libido alone. I've got to try again though because everything else was perfect. I hate AIs and high test.


----------



## Redsy

What increases blood sugar?

Used HGH and monitored BG. I was always within range to be fair, just careful.

Recently did a 4/5wk strict cut on 1500 cals and LOW carb. No HGH during this time.

Am back to maintenance cals and eating carbs again. Much more sugars than previously whilst cutting

Want to start back with HGH but notice fasted BG a bit above what it should be 6.3-6.7. Always wanted it less than 5.5.

Am taking test P, winny. Had been cutting with a range of stuff, incl mainly clen, bit of ephedrine, yohimbine and caffeine.

Would my current fasted BG of 6.5 put you off starting HGH again.

Any reason my BG is raised from above information?

Thanks


----------



## smiddy444

OK @ElChapo I'm hoping you're the man here as I've mentioned this before and you did have some advice.

Around early-mid Dec had a "vibrating" or twitching feeling in my perineum, thought nothing off it. But then the old chap started to sting a bit. As I'd just been banging a Chinese girl I met on Tinder, I thought "uh oh, I shouldn't have gone in bareback and now I've got the clap".

Turned out I'm totally clear (thank f**k) but my doctor said it's prostitis. Gave me ofloxin for about a month. Sort of went away, and the vibrating/twitching is totally gone, but the stinging is still there. Now I've finished the anti-biotics, it's quite bad and has been for a few days.

Now I know steroids might be contributing towards this (my GP didn't think so, but admits he's no endocrinologist) but I've essentially been on a high cruise for most of 2018. I've not done ANY test since the start of Feb, just to see if that helps, but it isn't.

Should I just keep on cruising like normal (I can tell I'm in a low-test state) and go to the doctor? Could my E2 be high despite just being on a low cruise since mid-Dec and now not taking any at all for a month? I'm getting the odd hot-flush, feel knackered, and sometimes a bit emotional, but it's been a busy month with work too.

Me being me (and now starved of test) I've got myself down with all sorts, ranging from penile cancer all the way to down to some condition that means I can never cycle again, and am doomed to natty training and a lifetime of anxiety and panic attacks. But my rational side (which is still there) is saying just to get advice and fu**ing fix it and stop fu**ing worrying.

Advice? I have plenty of test and adex, so if "just inject/raise dose/take some fu**ing Adex" is the advice, I'm good. If stopping for a bit and doing PCT is the advice, I can just buy some Novla no issue, though I'd really rather avoid that. I'm getting bloodwork in two weeks so should know for sure then, but this is literally a pain in the fu**ing dick.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for your help!
> 
> Can I ask you whats your view on Tren?
> 
> How many cycles you think one should have done before trying tren?
> 
> Is it worse on arteries etc than NPP?
> 
> Do you ever suggest using Tren or you find it has too many side effects to be worth using?
> Lastly - How to prevent tren cough and why you think it appears? Will it make any difference using tren E instead of tren a?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but hope you have time to answer them


 Eh, it's overrated in terms of results, it has the worse side effect profile in terms of sexual side effects ( erectile dysfunction/libido) and lipids/heart health/mood problems.

I would not recommend it as a first or second cycle compound due to these side effects, when you are still trying to learn how to inject, dealing with E2 sides, etc you don' want to further complicate this initial learning process by adding all the trenbolone side effects which also include gynecomastia.

I would say tren is worse on arteries than NPP, as long as you aren't running this stuff year round and you take care of yourself, and don't have family history, you should be okay.

That's up to you, some guys respond very well to tren, others are very prone to tren gyno/mood swings/erection issues and it's not worth it. I find winstrol and superdrol are better at everything than tren including aesthetics (drying/pump effect) and strength increase, but that's my personal experience.

The cough is an "oil embolism" some oil gets into the blood stream, it's normal and harmless. You can prevent it from staying away from blood vessel rich injections sites like the quads. Ventrogluteal is the best injection site, least amount of nerves = less pain/pip and less blood vessels means less risk of oil embolism / tren cough.

Tren A and E are the same for tren cough risk in my experience.


----------



## ElChapo

iamyou said:


> What would you say how bad is super low HDL year round? All the other lipids are very low as well. Tren does that to me and it seems to take ages to bounce back... I'll be back on before it does. I was on tren for 7 months.
> 
> The way I understand it low HDL is found in people with heart diseases but it doesn't mean it's the cause. There are some conditions that cause nonexistent HDL from birth and those people don't get heart diseases.
> 
> Another question... I am not 100% sure about this as I'm going to give it another shot but my libido was incredible on 100mg of prop. The moment I added a high dosage of tren a 600mg and 500mg of mast to it my libido disappeared. I upped prop to 400mg and libido came back but I felt like trash since it brought tren's sides and bloat back. I felt amazing on 100mg. I have to experiment again since I did mess around with letro 2 weeks prior so there is a chance it wasn't the tren. Maybe mast lowered my e2 too much. To be honest my libido was even better on letro but I'll give low test another go. Mast did nothing except make my face sink in. No amount of tren or letro has given me that look before. I'll keep using it for that reason mainly.
> 
> Do you have an explanation why my libido seems to vanish with low test high tren? Seems silly to take a high dosage of test for libido alone. I've got to try again though because everything else was perfect. I hate AIs and high test.


 Like you said, heart disease isn't as simple as high/low good/bad cholesterol, however, HDL does help keep the arteries free of calcification and inflammation. It has a protective effect on the endothelial lining of the blood vessels. Having the lipids low year round is never a good as it increases the risk of calcification, artery narrowing and increase in stiffness.

I love test prop and find it feels stronger in terms of mood and effects on physique than enanthate/cypionate with zero bloat/water retention/moon face. I also feel better on 200 mg than on 300 mg during a cruise/HRT. There's a sweet spot for total testosterone that's independent of E2 for mood and health.

Tren can increase and decrease libido. It depends on the dosage, your E2 levels, etc. It's a very unpredictable compound. When i run tren solo at 200-300 mg per week, libido is great and erections are fantastic. Stacked with test, libido and erections are subpar, even with E2 in range.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> What increases blood sugar?
> 
> Used HGH and monitored BG. I was always within range to be fair, just careful.
> 
> Recently did a 4/5wk strict cut on 1500 cals and LOW carb. No HGH during this time.
> 
> Am back to maintenance cals and eating carbs again. Much more sugars than previously whilst cutting
> 
> Want to start back with HGH but notice fasted BG a bit above what it should be 6.3-6.7. Always wanted it less than 5.5.
> 
> Am taking test P, winny. Had been cutting with a range of stuff, incl mainly clen, bit of ephedrine, yohimbine and caffeine.
> 
> Would my current fasted BG of 6.5 put you off starting HGH again.
> 
> Any reason my BG is raised from above information?
> 
> Thanks


 Those levels are still virtually harmless, stay under 7.2 nmol/L.

BG tends to be elevated due to genetics or high body fat.


----------



## ElChapo

smiddy444 said:


> OK @ElChapo I'm hoping you're the man here as I've mentioned this before and you did have some advice.
> 
> Around early-mid Dec had a "vibrating" or twitching feeling in my perineum, thought nothing off it. But then the old chap started to sting a bit. As I'd just been banging a Chinese girl I met on Tinder, I thought "uh oh, I shouldn't have gone in bareback and now I've got the clap".
> 
> Turned out I'm totally clear (thank f**k) but my doctor said it's prostitis. Gave me ofloxin for about a month. Sort of went away, and the vibrating/twitching is totally gone, but the stinging is still there. Now I've finished the anti-biotics, it's quite bad and has been for a few days.
> 
> Now I know steroids might be contributing towards this (my GP didn't think so, but admits he's no endocrinologist) but I've essentially been on a high cruise for most of 2018. I've not done ANY test since the start of Feb, just to see if that helps, but it isn't.
> 
> Should I just keep on cruising like normal (I can tell I'm in a low-test state) and go to the doctor? Could my E2 be high despite just being on a low cruise since mid-Dec and now not taking any at all for a month? I'm getting the odd hot-flush, feel knackered, and sometimes a bit emotional, but it's been a busy month with work too.
> 
> Me being me (and now starved of test) I've got myself down with all sorts, ranging from penile cancer all the way to down to some condition that means I can never cycle again, and am doomed to natty training and a lifetime of anxiety and panic attacks. But my rational side (which is still there) is saying just to get advice and fu**ing fix it and stop fu**ing worrying.
> 
> Advice? I have plenty of test and adex, so if "just inject/raise dose/take some fu**ing Adex" is the advice, I'm good. If stopping for a bit and doing PCT is the advice, I can just buy some Novla no issue, though I'd really rather avoid that. I'm getting bloodwork in two weeks so should know for sure then, but this is literally a pain in the fu**ing dick.


 No idea what it could be, possibly BPH (bening prostate hypertrophy). AAS and E2 can increase prostate size and it can be permanent. It's a genetic thing. DHT and E2 will swell up the prostate and some of that stays post-cycle especially in susceptible individuals. I would see a urologist about it.


----------



## iamyou

ElChapo said:


> Like you said, heart disease isn't as simple as high/low good/bad cholesterol, however, HDL does help keep the arteries free of calcification and inflammation. It has a protective effect on the endothelial lining of the blood vessels. Having the lipids low year round is never a good as it increases the risk of calcification, artery narrowing and increase in stiffness.
> 
> I love test prop and find it feels stronger in terms of mood and effects on physique than enanthate/cypionate with zero bloat/water retention/moon face. I also feel better on 200 mg than on 300 mg during a cruise/HRT. There's a sweet spot for total testosterone that's independent of E2 for mood and health.
> 
> Tren can increase and decrease libido. It depends on the dosage, your E2 levels, etc. It's a very unpredictable compound.* When i run tren solo at 200-300 mg per week, libido is great and erections are fantastic. Stacked with test, libido and erections are subpar, even with E2 in range. *


 Tren without test... I've never tried it. Wonder how does that make any sense? Wouldn't your test and e2 be really low on tren alone?


----------



## ElChapo

iamyou said:


> Tren without test... I've never tried it. Wonder how does that make any sense? Wouldn't your test and e2 be really low on tren alone?


 Yes, but tren solo still works. It was just an experiment though. Libido and erections were excellent, mood was good too.

200-300 mg tren ace per week solo.


----------



## smiddy444

ElChapo said:


> No idea what it could be, possibly BPH (bening prostate hypertrophy). AAS and E2 can increase prostate size and it can be permanent. It's a genetic thing. DHT and E2 will swell up the prostate and some of that stays post-cycle especially in susceptible individuals. I would see a urologist about it.


 Holy f**k, so you're saying this might be permanent? Honestly trying not to sound over-dramatic here, but I can't put up with this for the rest of my life.

Is there nothing that can be done? Did the steroids cause it, or could it have happened anyway? Will this affect my ability to use AAS in future?


----------



## ElChapo

smiddy444 said:


> Holy f**k, so you're saying this might be permanent? Honestly trying not to sound over-dramatic here, but I can't put up with this for the rest of my life.
> 
> Is there nothing that can be done? Did the steroids cause it, or could it have happened anyway? Will this affect my ability to use AAS in future?


 Describe your symptoms again in more detail


----------



## smiddy444

ElChapo said:


> Describe your symptoms again in more detail


 Well I've just done some Googling and found two things. I think, well I'm hoping, it's a case of crossed wires here. I don't doubt your knowledge, but as you say, you aren't a doctor and I've not described it properly.

1. Having looked up BPH, I don't have any of the symptoms. Every source I've found only mentions urinary issues (difficulty, incompleteness, dribbling, and at worst, incontinence) and I have no issues there. I'm pissing a lot because I'm drinking so much water to try and "flush it out" and pissing helps relieve the symptoms a bit, but when I do go, it's perfectly normal.

2. I've also read that steroid use can enlarge the prostate, as I've been told here before, but ceasing won't cause lasting damage as it just shrinks. As I say, maybe my E2 is high despite being on a cruise dose. Bloods will obviously tell me the answer.

As for symptoms, it's pretty simple - at first, a vibrating or twitching feeling in the perineum. This has now gone. Since then, a stinging in my dick. The past few weeks it's just been there - dull and constant. You'd think, as anyone I've mentioned it to has said, that banging some random girl off tinder has given me the clap. and the timing is perfect given when it came on, but I'm clear.

Urine tests, clear too.


----------



## ElChapo

smiddy444 said:


> Well I've just done some Googling and found two things. I think, well I'm hoping, it's a case of crossed wires here. I don't doubt your knowledge, but as you say, you aren't a doctor and I've not described it properly.
> 
> 1. Having looked up BPH, I don't have any of the symptoms. Every source I've found only mentions urinary issues (difficulty, incompleteness, dribbling, and at worst, incontinence) and I have no issues there. I'm pissing a lot because I'm drinking so much water to try and "flush it out" and pissing helps relieve the symptoms a bit, but when I do go, it's perfectly normal.
> 
> 2. I've also read that steroid use can enlarge the prostate, as I've been told here before, but ceasing won't cause lasting damage as it just shrinks. As I say, maybe my E2 is high despite being on a cruise dose. Bloods will obviously tell me the answer.
> 
> As for symptoms, it's pretty simple - at first, a vibrating or twitching feeling in the perineum. This has now gone. Since then, a stinging in my dick. The past few weeks it's just been there - dull and constant. You'd think, as anyone I've mentioned it to has said, that banging some random girl off tinder has given me the clap. and the timing is perfect given when it came on, but I'm clear.
> 
> Urine tests, clear too.


 All i can think of is prostate or if you do biking, nerve damage from pressure to perineum. Follow up with Uro.

Could also be kegel muscle spasms but wouldnt explain stinging pain.


----------



## smiddy444

ElChapo said:


> All i can think of is prostate or if you do biking, *nerve damage from pressure to perineum.* Follow up with Uro.


 AH HA!

My fu**ing shitty useless fu**ing chair in work (multi million pound company, but we spend it all on putting on events, so I've never been overly bothered) is like sitting on pile of rocks.

8 hours a day, sometimes longer, 5 days a week. And my desk chair at home isn't much better.

This would also explain why it's largely fine at night, but gets worse through the day. Would also explain why the very well padded and heated seats in the car get rid of it.

So having pictured all sorts of horror, up to and including having my prostate removed in some horrific operation, becoming impotent as a result then taking my anger out on the world with violence, becoming some sort of megalomaniac psychopath to avenge my fate, it seems that the simple answer might be "buy a fu**ing cushion you total fu**ing moron".

As for urologist - my GP is totally on-side, and will happily refer me to one, but if I don't get lucky and end up with a urologist who just wants an easy answer "knock the testosterone on the head" isn't going to fly.

To be honest, I don't see why this would cause stinging either, but maybe some sort of irritation travelling up the urethra?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo every time I pin my right delt, I get a weird PIP running from the bottom of the medial delt, down the triceps/brachii area. Never once had this on my left delt. Any reason this could be?


----------



## Baka

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo every time I pin my right delt, I get a weird PIP running from the bottom of the medial delt, down the triceps/brachii area. Never once had this on my left delt. Any reason this could be?


 I used to have this.

Do you heat your gear before ?

What I did was putting the needle 3/4 in the muscle , before I used to put only 1/2 , and only push when it's totally in the muscle (3/4 in) not while you push the needle in your muscle.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

8 weeks on 50mg tbol or 50mg var isn't too much ?

I prefer long term low dose then short term higher doses but I know many people say 6 weeks is max for orals.

If I don't get sides on 50mg can I run for 8-10 weeks?


----------



## Sam R

Baka said:


> I used to have this.
> 
> Do you heat your gear before ?
> 
> What I did was putting the needle 3/4 in the muscle , before I used to put only 1/2 , and only push when it's totally in the muscle (3/4 in) not while you push the needle in your muscle.


 Ah so you're saying the oil isn't being injected deep enough? No I've never bothered heating my gear.


----------



## ElChapo

smiddy444 said:


> AH HA!
> 
> My fu**ing shitty useless fu**ing chair in work (multi million pound company, but we spend it all on putting on events, so I've never been overly bothered) is like sitting on pile of rocks.
> 
> 8 hours a day, sometimes longer, 5 days a week. And my desk chair at home isn't much better.
> 
> This would also explain why it's largely fine at night, but gets worse through the day. Would also explain why the very well padded and heated seats in the car get rid of it.
> 
> So having pictured all sorts of horror, up to and including having my prostate removed in some horrific operation, becoming impotent as a result then taking my anger out on the world with violence, becoming some sort of megalomaniac psychopath to avenge my fate, it seems that the simple answer might be "buy a fu**ing cushion you total fu**ing moron".
> 
> As for urologist - my GP is totally on-side, and will happily refer me to one, but if I don't get lucky and end up with a urologist who just wants an easy answer "knock the testosterone on the head" isn't going to fly.
> 
> To be honest, I don't see why this would cause stinging either, but maybe some sort of irritation travelling up the urethra?


 When a nerve get compressed, it can cause pain, numbness and strange sensations all over the body. The nerve in the perineum is connected to the penis. Try getting a different chair and sit in a way that doesn't put pressure on the perineum.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo every time I pin my right delt, I get a weird PIP running from the bottom of the medial delt, down the triceps/brachii area. Never once had this on my left delt. Any reason this could be?


 Maybe you have a cluster of nerves on the right delt, this is the most likely explanation. Most people will find a side of the body they prefer due to more flexibility to reach it and less pip when using it.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 8 weeks on 50mg tbol or 50mg var isn't too much ?
> 
> I prefer long term low dose then short term higher doses but I know many people say 6 weeks is max for orals.
> 
> If I don't get sides on 50mg can I run for 8-10 weeks?


 Oral toxicity is overrated, you can even do 12 weeks. You can run TUDCA/UDCA for extra insurance. People hurt their livers more from binge drinking and pain pills than from oral steroids.

Avoid alcohol and acetaminophen.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Ah so you're saying the oil isn't being injected deep enough? No I've never bothered heating my gear.


 SubQ leak is a very common cause of PIP.

Best technique for injection:

Flex the muscle you want to inject, find a solid spot in the middle.

Relax it, wipe with alcohol swab. 

Leave a small bubble of air in the syringe, inject needle quickly while keeping muscle relaxed, should be 100% painless.

Once you finish injecting, wait 20-30 seconds for oil to settle in muscle before pulling out needle. 

This stops subq leak and subsequent PIP/inflammation. I found best results with this method. I always recommend ventroglutes.

If PIP occurs, take 400 mg ibuprofen or equivalent dose of NSAID, x 3 times day for 36-48 hours. PIP will heal quicker if you take an NSAID as soon you feel it.

For SEVERE PIP, add 500 mg Tylenol/Acetaminophen to your NSAID dosage. The sooner you catch the PIP and use the meds, the faster it will heal.


----------



## Baka

Sam R said:


> Ah so you're saying the oil isn't being injected deep enough? No I've never bothered heating my gear.


 yes. I had this in my early jabs . the PIP went down to my triceps / biceps and it was hot/red .

I thought it was the gear problem but no , I started to heat and inject deeper in the muscle without injecting in subQ because as El chapo said , it can give PIP/inflammation.

Nowaday I only jab in my quads/glutes , easier to me.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo not sure if these questions are up your alley but here goes 

1) is there a generel guideline as to how one should go about stretching, and especially for strained/injured/tight areas? My old physio told me to always hold it for 40 seconds and that the four times daily which I was doing was fine, but that going in the 5-6 times daily range would be too much

2) I strained my lower back muscles a few years back, and especially sitting seemed to irritate it.. anyway after having done careful rehab exercises every 4th day, mainly consisting of body exercises on the mat, stretches, heat pad and massage on off days, it seems to have "healed" at this point, or at least extremely close to it.. im looking to SLOWLY start increasing the load on my lower back for strenghtening. I am already training the upper body part with weights. Anyway I was thinking of maybe trying squatting with just the bar. My main concern is to go SLOW and avoid reaggrevating the old lower back strain. Do you have any suggestions for exercises? Or other inputs?

3) I am consuming 2-3 drops of pure ceylon cinnamon oil (cinnamaldehyde) daily. Is there any long term dangers in doing this?

As always greatly appreciated!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Eh, it's overrated in terms of results, it has the worse side effect profile in terms of sexual side effects ( erectile dysfunction/libido) and lipids/heart health/mood problems.
> 
> I would not recommend it as a first or second cycle compound due to these side effects, when you are still trying to learn how to inject, dealing with E2 sides, etc you don' want to further complicate this initial learning process by adding all the trenbolone side effects which also include gynecomastia.
> 
> I would say tren is worse on arteries than NPP, as long as you aren't running this stuff year round and you take care of yourself, and don't have family history, you should be okay.
> 
> That's up to you, some guys respond very well to tren, others are very prone to tren gyno/mood swings/erection issues and it's not worth it. I find winstrol and superdrol are better at everything than tren including aesthetics (drying/pump effect) and strength increase, but that's my personal experience.
> 
> The cough is an "oil embolism" some oil gets into the blood stream, it's normal and harmless. You can prevent it from staying away from blood vessel rich injections sites like the quads. Ventrogluteal is the best injection site, least amount of nerves = less pain/pip and less blood vessels means less risk of oil embolism / tren cough.
> 
> Tren A and E are the same for tren cough risk in my experience.


 Wow greatly appreciate the answer! Thank you! Did 600mg test+400mg npp - If I would try tren for next cycle which dose would you recommend, and how much test would you add


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Wow greatly appreciate the answer! Thank you! Did 600mg test+400mg npp - If I would try tren for next cycle which dose would you recommend, and how much test would you add


 Equal or higher test will lead to better strength and muscle increase, but some people get higher side effects and risk of gyno. I have found best results with equal or higher test.

I would shoot for 600 mg test/600 mg trenbolone.

Keep ralox or nolva on hand if you need to reverse gyno and cialis in case you get erectile dysfunction. Keep a close eye on your mood, tren can really f**k some people up with mood swings, self-doubt, depression and anxiety, it must be respected. It can also cause insomnia and decrease in appetite/increase in gastric reflux.

If you wanna play it safe for your first run, you can do 600 mg test/300 mg trenbolone but if i were running it, i would do 600/600 mg.

I recommend test p to reduce water retention.

For an awesome cycle, throw in 50 mg winstrol daily or 20 mg superdrol daily.

Run for 12 weeks, 300-500 calorie surplus.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Equal or higher test will lead to better strength and muscle increase, but some people get higher side effects and risk of gyno. I have found best results with equal or higher test.
> 
> I would shoot for 600 mg test/600 mg trenbolone.
> 
> Keep ralox or nolva on hand if you need to reverse gyno and cialis in case you get erectile dysfunction. Keep a close eye on your mood, tren can really f**k some people up with mood swings, self-doubt, depression and anxiety, it must be respected. It can also cause insomnia and decrease in appetite/increase in gastric reflux.
> 
> If you wanna play it safe for your first run, you can do 600 mg test/300 mg trenbolone but if i were running it, i would do 600/600 mg.
> 
> I recommend test p to reduce water retention.
> 
> For an awesome cycle, throw in 50 mg winstrol daily or 20 mg superdrol daily.
> 
> Run for 12 weeks, 300-500 calorie surplus.


 Thx!

how does 600mg compare to 300mg, how does it compare to 400mg npp?

Atm im 500+ surplus, but I think Iøve heard you should increase calories further on tren, or is this not true?

For some reasom superdrol scares me, never ran dbol so Im leaning toward trying it 20mged

Also you think caber is needed on 300mg tren, or when should prolactin be a problem?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo not sure if these questions are up your alley but here goes
> 
> 1) is there a generel guideline as to how one should go about stretching, and especially for strained/injured/tight areas? My old physio told me to always hold it for 40 seconds and that the four times daily which I was doing was fine, but that going in the 5-6 times daily range would be too much
> 
> 2) I strained my lower back muscles a few years back, and especially sitting seemed to irritate it.. anyway after having done careful rehab exercises every 4th day, mainly consisting of body exercises on the mat, stretches, heat pad and massage on off days, it seems to have "healed" at this point, or at least extremely close to it.. im looking to SLOWLY start increasing the load on my lower back for strenghtening. I am already training the upper body part with weights. Anyway I was thinking of maybe trying squatting with just the bar. My main concern is to go SLOW and avoid reaggrevating the old lower back strain. Do you have any suggestions for exercises? Or other inputs?
> 
> 3) I am consuming 2-3 drops of pure ceylon cinnamon oil (cinnamaldehyde) daily. Is there any long term dangers in doing this?
> 
> As always greatly appreciated!


 You need to learn how to activate your abs on ALL exercises to avoid future back problems. The back gets strained when the abs and core are not assisting the back, a smaller and weaker muscle that is easily fatigue and overworked.

You should train your abs 3-5 times per week with good form to get your core very strong and develop mind/muscle connections with your abs to engage them at all times, this will protect your back. The core and abs have the same function as weight lifting belt.

Using a weight belt is like using straps to compensate for weaker forearms but instead its the core that's being compensated for.

Doubt it about the cinnamon oil, i recommend Meriva Curcumin 1 gram daily for inflammation/joint pain. Works pretty good.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx!
> 
> how does 600mg compare to 300mg, how does it compare to 400mg npp?
> 
> Atm im 500+ surplus, but I think Iøve heard you should increase calories further on tren, or is this not true?
> 
> For some reasom superdrol scares me, never ran dbol so Im leaning toward trying it 20mged
> 
> Also you think caber is needed on 300mg tren, or when should prolactin be a problem?


 I can't say because i don't know how you respond to NPP or tren. Some people can be high or low responders to either compound.

It's BS, you can still get fat on trenbolone. I'm telling you this compound is vastly overrated, it is effective and strong, but the BS stories you are hear about eating ice cream/pizza etc and losing fat is 100% bullshit. Just treat it like any other steroid, it's not magic.

Dbol is subpar in my opinion, too much water, too much risk of gyno. Sdrol is awesome, dries you out, pumps you up, increases strength by a lot. Most common side effect is lethargy and loss of appetite but that's about it.

Most people don't need caber and their prolactin is not elevated but i have seen it happen before. The caber can help with mood and sexual sides sometimes. You could carry it just in case but it's not needed and it will not do anything for gyno either.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I can't say because i don't know how you respond to NPP or tren. Some people can be high or low responders to either compound.
> 
> It's BS, you can still get fat on trenbolone. I'm telling you this compound is vastly overrated, it is effective and strong, but the BS stories you are hear about eating ice cream/pizza etc and losing fat is 100% bullshit. Just treat it like any other steroid, it's not magic.
> 
> Dbol is subpar in my opinion, too much water, too much risk of gyno. Sdrol is awesome, dries you out, pumps you up, increases strength by a lot. Most common side effect is lethargy and loss of appetite but that's about it.
> 
> Most people don't need caber and their prolactin is not elevated but i have seen it happen before. The caber can help with mood and sexual sides sometimes. You could carry it just in case but it's not needed and it will not do anything for gyno either.


 Great! Which ester would you choose?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> You need to learn how to activate your abs on ALL exercises to avoid future back problems. The back gets strained when the abs and core are not assisting the back, a smaller and weaker muscle that is easily fatigue and overworked.
> 
> You should train your abs 3-5 times per week with good form to get your core very strong and develop mind/muscle connections with your abs to engage them at all times, this will protect your back. The core and abs have the same function as weight lifting belt.
> 
> Using a weight belt is like using straps to compensate for weaker forearms but instead its the core that's being compensated for.
> 
> Doubt it about the cinnamon oil, i recommend Meriva Curcumin 1 gram daily for inflammation/joint pain. Works pretty good.


 Thanks! Makes a lot of sense strenghtening the abs/core. I will get into it! Is there any specific exercises for the ab/core that you recommend I look into?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great! Which ester would you choose?


 Acetate, kicks in faster, leaves body faster. I'm a fan of short esters generally. You can inject x 2 times per week and get away with it too.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Thanks! Makes a lot of sense strenghtening the abs/core. I will get into it! Is there any specific exercises for the ab/core that you recommend I look into?


 Yeah, my favorite is crunches on a swiss ball. Doing them on a swiss ball take the hip flexors completely out of the movement so it becomes 100% abdominals.

Get a swiss ball, lay your lower back against, this will give you a good stretch and ROM for a crunch. You should fatigue very quickly if you do them right, you will feel it 100% in your abs. Work up to as many reps as you can. Once you hit 50 reps for x 3 sets your abs should be fairly well trained. When i first started, i could only get 15-20 reps.


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo

Friend of mine did a test and deca cycle and finished it in late November.

He didn't use any nolvadex/hcg. he used clomid at 50mg per day for 3 weeks.

He had some acne on cycle but now he has been off 3 months his arms/shoulders and back are covered like a mass breakout of huge white and red zits ... it's shocking.

He told me now when it's cold outside his body starts to itch really bad also.

I said he should probably use some accutane, if that is correct what's the starting dose?

I take it there isn't much point using nolvadex at the point as he's been off cycle more than 3 months now

He said libido is ok now was a drop around the 2 month mark.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Friend of mine did a test and deca cycle and finished it in late November.
> 
> He didn't use any nolvadex/hcg. he used clomid at 50mg per day for 3 weeks.
> 
> He had some acne on cycle but now he has been off 3 months his arms/shoulders and back are covered like a mass breakout of huge white and red zits ... it's shocking.
> 
> He told me now when it's cold outside his body starts to itch really bad also.
> 
> I said he should probably use some accutane, if that is correct what's the starting dose?
> 
> I take it there isn't much point using nolvadex at the point as he's been off cycle more than 3 months now
> 
> He said libido is ok now was a drop around the 2 month mark.


 Would be useful to get his labs right now and see where it's at. High E2 can cause acne.

80 mg accutane and people run it for up to 6 months a time. It can semi-permanently decrease acne. Interesting compound, some react badly to it with fatigue and depression but that's rare.


----------



## pma111

As a general rule,does the body prefer certain types of foods for fuel/energy. From what I gather from your posts calories are calories and whatever you put in, the body will use for fuel and energy and your tdee needs. But I wondered if it can use certain food sources more efficiently than others.


----------



## pma111

Ive read the calories burned calculators on 'fitness bands' such as fit bit and even the monitors on excercise bikes in gyms are horrendously over-exaggerted and inaccurate, even on new kit. Do you know of any bands/watches which have some credibility / reliability on the calories burnt stats that are worth the money, or are they all useless and inaccurate (shocked by this given the cost of some of them).

And out of interest what realistically cals burned would you predict for 30 mins cardio on excercise bike, jogging or walking. Or any resources someone can use to calculate their cals burnt during various forms of excercise, if we cannot rely on fitness bands and tredmill/excercise bike monitors. I read for every 10 mins moderate intensity e.g. jogging/cycling, should be close to 100 cals burnt, so 30 mins of either approx 300 cals - but that too may be optimistic maybe.

Put simply, what would someone have to do in terms of cardio to burn 600 -700 cals a day?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> As a general rule,does the body prefer certain types of foods for fuel/energy. From what I gather from your posts calories are calories and whatever you put in, the body will use for fuel and energy and your tdee needs. But I wondered if it can use certain food sources more efficiently than others.


 Your body taps into glycogen and fat for fuel. If you eat enough carbs, your glycogen stores will be topped off. When you eat fat and sugar, that's stored or burned as well. People overthink macros and food. Just stick to a diet that you enjoy and supports your goals.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Ive read the calories burned calculators on 'fitness bands' such as fit bit and even the monitors on excercise bikes in gyms are horrendously over-exaggerted and inaccurate, even on new kit. Do you know of any bands/watches which have some credibility / reliability on the calories burnt stats that are worth the money, or are they all useless and inaccurate (shocked by this given the cost of some of them).
> 
> And out of interest what realistically cals burned would you predict for 30 mins cardio on excercise bike, jogging or walking. Or any resources someone can use to calculate their cals burnt during various forms of excercise, if we cannot rely on fitness bands and tredmill/excercise bike monitors. I read for every 10 mins moderate intensity e.g. jogging/cycling, should be close to 100 cals burnt, so 30 mins of either approx 300 cals - but that too may be optimistic maybe.
> 
> Put simply, what would someone have to do in terms of cardio to burn 600 -700 cals a day?


 They can be inaccurate, people will burn more or less depending on size, weight, metabolism, etc. Online calculators are fairly accurate when you look up specific activities and you can enter your weight.

I've found this one to be dead pretty dead accurate:

https://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/

On average, someone will burn around 120 calories per mile running at a 10 minute per mile pace. If you increase or decrease the pace, or the person's weight, this will fluctuate greatly.

The average person will burn around 240 calories running 2 miles in the 2 minutes. This is significant, basically equivalent to running clenbuterol.

You can burn around +700 calories running 6 miles in 60 minutes. You're better of doing a light-moderate amount cardio and letting your caloric deficit through diet do most of the work.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> They can be inaccurate, people will burn more or less depending on size, weight, metabolism, etc. Online calculators are fairly accurate when you look up specific activities and you can enter your weight.
> 
> I've found this one to be dead pretty dead accurate:
> 
> https://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/
> 
> On average, someone will burn around 120 calories per mile running at a 10 minute per mile pace. If you increase or decrease the pace, or the person's weight, this will fluctuate greatly.
> 
> The average person will burn around 240 calories running 2 miles in the 2 minutes. This is significant, basically equivalent to running clenbuterol.
> 
> You can burn around +700 calories running 6 miles in 60 minutes. You're better of doing a light-moderate amount cardio and letting your caloric deficit through diet do most of the work.


 Cheers. My excercise bike monitor quoted 450 cals for 35 mins going at quite a decent intensity, so I reckon its a little bit off and probably realistically maybe closer to 350-380. That 120 per 10 mins matches what a trainer told me so glad I had not imagined it. He said 35 mins approx would get you close to 400 cals.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> They can be inaccurate, people will burn more or less depending on size, weight, metabolism, etc. Online calculators are fairly accurate when you look up specific activities and you can enter your weight.
> 
> I've found this one to be dead pretty dead accurate:
> 
> https://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/
> 
> On average, someone will burn around 120 calories per mile running at a 10 minute per mile pace. If you increase or decrease the pace, or the person's weight, this will fluctuate greatly.
> 
> The average person will burn around 240 calories running 2 miles in the 2 minutes. This is significant, basically equivalent to running clenbuterol.
> 
> You can burn around +700 calories running 6 miles in 60 minutes. You're better of doing a light-moderate amount cardio and letting your caloric deficit through diet do most of the work.


 Just had a quick play on the calculator you linked to. Have I got this right,say you walked on the tredmill for 35 mins 0% gradient at 3mph and weighed 200 lbs,you'd burn approx 311 cals? Just tryna map it to my walks (outdoors not in a gym on a tred mill but presume equivalent).


----------



## stewedw

pma111 said:


> Just had a quick play on the calculator. Have I got this right,say you walked on the tredmill for 35 mins 0% gradient at 3mph and weighed 200 lbs,youd burn approx 311 cals? Just tryna map it to my walks (outdoors not in a gym on a tred mill).


 Roughly 10 cals per minute for most excercises at that weight for lost things if hr was 130 bpm


----------



## Whoremoan1

is there peptides that can temporarily elevate gh and igf ? so on blood tests it makes it seam its real hgh?


----------



## pma111

What are the main maybe top 5 causes of erectile dysfunction or weaker erections in the general population? not just those usong aas. I presume high blood pressure from calcifacation is one of them possibly the most common.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> is there peptides that can temporarily elevate gh and igf ? so on blood tests it makes it seam its real hgh?


 Not sure if GH peptides or fractions will pop as GH, but if your IGF-1 is elevated, that's good regardless as this is where the main benefit of taking GH comes from.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What are the main maybe top 5 causes of erectile dysfunction or weaker erections in the general population? not just those usong aas. I presume high blood pressure from calcifacation is one of them possibly the most common.


 1. Poor circulation (stiff arteries, calcification, narrowing)

2. Impaired testosterone/E2/DHT

3. Anti-depressant usage (SSRIs)

4. Excessive masturbation to pornography (impairs dopaminergic signalling in the brain)

5.Psychogenic (anxiety, stress, depression)


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> 1. Poor circulation (stiff arteries, calcification, narrowing)
> 
> 2. Impaired testosterone/E2/DHT
> 
> 3. Anti-depressant usage (SSRIs)
> 
> 4. Excessive masturbation to pornography (impairs dopaminergic signalling in the brain)
> 
> 5.Psychogenic (anxiety, stress, depression)


 Is narrowing the end result of plaque/calcifacation?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is narrowing the end result of plaque/calcifacation?


 No, they can be seperate things. The blood vessels can get stiff and lose elasticity and the ability to widen and allow blood flow due to inflammation, aging, etc.

The best preventative measure is aerobic exercise, Vitamin K2, staying lean, and good nutrition or supplementation ( pycnogenol/curcumin/cocoa)


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo is there any test i can perform to find out if i am having difficulty absorbing protein that I eat? I'm not absorbing iron properly, seen in anaemia in my blood test, but is there an equivalent test for protein?


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo is there any test i can perform to find out if i am having difficulty absorbing protein that I eat? I'm not absorbing iron properly, seen in anaemia in my blood test, but is there an equivalent test for protein?


 Generally, with a dietary protein deficiency, you will see lower levels of albumin and protein in lab work.

Elder people who are malnourished frequently experience low levels of both in labwork.

Do you eat a lot of iron? From what foods?

Calcium can impair iron absorption greatly.


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> This is a good setup.


 Is it possible to maintain muscle weight training only twice a week mate?

Im obsessed with bjj all ready! I can still do 3 tho if that's better?


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> Is it possible to maintain muscle weight training only twice a week mate?
> 
> Im obsessed with bjj all ready! I can still do 3 tho if that's better?


 Yes, once a week per muscle group is enough. If you aren't losing strength, you won't lose muscle.

You might not look as pumped as you would if you were training more frequently due to glycogen/sarcoplasmic fluid, but the muscle isn't going anywhere.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

TITO said:


> Is it possible to maintain muscle weight training only twice a week mate?
> 
> Im obsessed with bjj all ready! I can still do 3 tho if that's better?


 Check out the gracie vs Eddie bravo bjj match and rematch


----------



## pma111

Is there any particular reason why you can only get potassium supplements in a tiny amount (99mg). Its a pittance of rda and never seen it with other minerals you may be low on, e.g. magnesium, zinc etc. Just wondered it it could be some legislation or if its just particularly difficult to make a supplement with sufficient dose/amount for some reason. From what I have read the average diet is high in sodium and low in potassium which is not a good thing for bp.


----------



## stewedw

pma111 said:


> Is there any particular reason why you can only get potassium supplements in a tiny amount (99mg). Its a pittance of rda and never seen it with other minerals you may be low on, e.g. magnesium, zinc etc. Just wondered it it could be some legislation or if its just particularly difficult to make a supplement with sufficient dose/amount for some reason. From what I have read the average diet is high in sodium and low in potassium which is not a good thing for bp.


 You can get them higher mate, this brand do most things.


----------



## pma111

stewedw said:


> You can get them higher mate, this brand do most things.
> 
> View attachment 169471


 Thanks pal, I normally use iherb and all on there looked standard 99mg. Cant stand bananas lol.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is there any particular reason why you can only get potassium supplements in a tiny amount (99mg). Its a pittance of rda and never seen it with other minerals you may be low on, e.g. magnesium, zinc etc. Just wondered it it could be some legislation or if its just particularly difficult to make a supplement with sufficient dose/amount for some reason. From what I have read the average diet is high in sodium and low in potassium which is not a good thing for bp.


 To try and protect imbeciles from overdosing themselves. Same happened to ephedrine in the USA (overdoses from hydroxycut) and now bulk caffeine.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Thanks pal, I normally use iherb and all on there looked standard 99mg. Cant stand bananas lol.


 Potatos are also a fairly rich source, 1 lbs should get you about 50% RDA i think.


----------



## Pancake'

Calves get really tight & pumped during some jogging and sprints, any input on how I can reduce this effect? typically occurs transitioning from a fast paced jog into bursts of sprinting.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Calves get really tight & pumped during some jogging and sprints, any input on how I can reduce this effect? typically occurs transitioning from a fast paced jog into bursts of sprinting.


 What's your magnesium and potassium k take like? Cramping is usually due to deficiency in both.

Sometimes AAS can cause increased cramping as well.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Acetate, kicks in faster, leaves body faster. I'm a fan of short esters generally. You can inject x 2 times per week and get away with it too.


 Will tren also have join relief effects like deca? Might try to do 250 test 300mg tren, or is test too low you think?


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> What's your magnesium and potassium k take like? Cramping is usually due to deficiency in both.


 I would say pretty low for the time being.

Potatoes, almonds, bananas, beans, green vegetables being some sources that I don't always consume consistently.

Will look at increasing the amounts of both those two. how much of each should I aim for?

How often should I limit HIIT per week?

Does distance covered really matter in terms of cardiovascular benefits when you're operating at maximum effort?


----------



## Baka

Pancake' said:


> Calves get really tight & pumped during some jogging and sprints, any input on how I can reduce this effect? typically occurs transitioning from a fast paced jog into bursts of sprinting.


 maybe more water and taurine , not sure tho


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo

Got my results back after 3 weeks into test e 500mg per week and adex at 0.5mg Monday/Wednesday/Friday.

screenshot attached

Do I need to increase adex to 0.5 EOD or is that result ok?

I am now going to add in 2ml TTM 250mg of test tren mast E. Test will remain at 500mg.

Estrogen is 129pmol/l or 35pg/ml

testosterone = 295nmol/l

I did my 2ml injection and 0.5mg adex day prior to drawing blood. (maybe why test result is so high)

Thanks

View attachment 169513


----------



## S1dhu82

hi el chapo been blasting and cruising for a good 5 years had a baby on blast and cruise but im looking to come off been cruising 8 weeks now whats a good pct protocol as wanna try for a baby im 36


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo what is your opinion on cialis for wound/injury healing? And is there any worries with long term use? Seems like people are taking it purely for health benefit reasons?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Could high E2 levels cause joint pain ? or is it only low E2?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Will tren also have join relief effects like deca? Might try to do 250 test 300mg tren, or is test too low you think?


 No, tren doesn't affect joints.

I would bump test to 300 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I would say pretty low for the time being.
> 
> Potatoes, almonds, bananas, beans, green vegetables being some sources that I don't always consume consistently.
> 
> Will look at increasing the amounts of both those two. how much of each should I aim for?
> 
> How often should I limit HIIT per week?
> 
> Does distance covered really matter in terms of cardiovascular benefits when you're operating at maximum effort?


 Try to get some potatos/bananas a couple of times a week and supplement 200-400 mg magnesium citrate daily.

Depends on your recovery. I would only do HIIT 2-3 per week max. I'm not a huge fan of it, it takes a lot out of you and can affect strength/recovery. Some guys love it though.

Positive cardiovascular adaptation comes from having your heart rate elevated for a period of time. The higher the heart rate, the less time you need to spend in this state to get a positive effect. HIIT and steady state cardio have different benefits and ways they affect cardiovascular health.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Got my results back after 3 weeks into test e 500mg per week and adex at 0.5mg Monday/Wednesday/Friday.
> 
> screenshot attached
> 
> Do I need to increase adex to 0.5 EOD or is that result ok?
> 
> I am now going to add in 2ml TTM 250mg of test tren mast E. Test will remain at 500mg.
> 
> Estrogen is 129pmol/l or 35pg/ml
> 
> testosterone = 295nmol/l
> 
> I did my 2ml injection and 0.5mg adex day prior to drawing blood. (maybe why test result is so high)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 169513


 Estrogen is perfect there.


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

I usually front load when taking test only.

I've just been told its a waste of time and that you don't reach a higher level quicker, and is pointless. I can't see that to be true. Thoughts?


----------



## ElChapo

S1dhu82 said:


> hi el chapo been blasting and cruising for a good 5 years had a baby on blast and cruise but im looking to come off been cruising 8 weeks now whats a good pct protocol as wanna try for a baby im 36


 You can either run 50-100 mg clomiphene until conception happens or run HMG 150-450 mg per week until conception.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo what is your opinion on cialis for wound/injury healing? And is there any worries with long term use? Seems like people are taking it purely for health benefit reasons?


 Seems to help by increasing circulation, but the research i've seen was in wounds actually caused by impaired circulation and it was a case study.

It seems to have a positive effect on endothelial health ( lining of the veins and arteries)


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I usually front load when taking test only.
> 
> I've just been told its a waste of time and that you don't reach a higher level quicker, and is pointless. I can't see that to be true. Thoughts?


 You do reach higher levels faster, the effect is negligible though. You won't notice a difference in the long run. You will reach peak levels by doubling your first injection. It's not a bad idea either.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Could high E2 levels cause joint pain ? or is it only low E2?


 Nope, low E2 only.


----------



## S1dhu82

ElChapo said:


> You can either run 50-100 mg clomiphene until conception happens or run HMG 150-450 mg per week until conception.


 thanks elchapo do i just cruise well doing this or do i come off


----------



## ElChapo

S1dhu82 said:


> thanks elchapo do i just cruise well doing this or do i come off


 For best results you would come off.

You could keep taking HRT level test on the HMG but not on the clomiphene.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> You need to learn how to activate your abs on ALL exercises to avoid future back problems. The back gets strained when the abs and core are not assisting the back, a smaller and weaker muscle that is easily fatigue and overworked.
> 
> You should train your abs 3-5 times per week with good form to get your core very strong and develop mind/muscle connections with your abs to engage them at all times, this will protect your back. The core and abs have the same function as weight lifting belt.
> 
> Using a weight belt is like using straps to compensate for weaker forearms but instead its the core that's being compensated for.
> 
> Doubt it about the cinnamon oil, i recommend Meriva Curcumin 1 gram daily for inflammation/joint pain. Works pretty good.


 I dont mean to sound redundant, but if I am hearing you right, working on building a strong ab/core is more important than adding more weight/strenght on the lower back area? As mentioned the lower back has been injured and seems to almost have healed at this point.

I started doing the ab crunch you suggested 3x weekly and was well needed, my abs are pretty weak!

Every 4th day im still doing all these exercises for the lower back / core area

10 x bridge

10 x side lying leg lift (having the raised leg towards the back, behind the other leg, and putting pressure on the glute with my fingers for resistance)

10 x leg raise trunk rotation (lifting both legs straight op in the air)

2 x 10 bird dog core

2 x 10 dumbbell side bend with 2,5 kg weights

I guess what im asking is if this program + the added ab crunches should be fine for now?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I dont mean to sound redundant, but if I am hearing you right, working on building a strong ab/core is more important than adding more weight/strenght on the lower back area? As mentioned the lower back has been injured and seems to almost have healed at this point.
> 
> I started doing the ab crunch you suggested 3x weekly and was well needed, my abs are pretty weak!
> 
> Every 4th day im still doing all these exercises for the lower back / core area
> 
> 10 x bridge
> 
> 10 x side lying leg lift (having the raised leg towards the back, behind the other leg, and putting pressure on the glute with my fingers for resistance)
> 
> 10 x leg raise trunk rotation (lifting both legs straight op in the air)
> 
> 2 x 10 bird dog core
> 
> 2 x 10 dumbbell side bend with 2,5 kg weights
> 
> I guess what im asking is if this program + the added ab crunches should be fine for now?


 The core consists of the abs AND lower back.

Having a strong back but weak core will lead to issues including back pain. The whole core must be strong and stable.

The back gets trained a lot when doing squats and deadlifts.

Answering the question, yes.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, tren doesn't affect joints.
> 
> I would bump test to 300 mg.


 Got 250mg test C already that I wanna use, so maybe just do 500mg test/300mg tren or how would you do this?

Also can I use tren A first 4 weeks, then switch to E if no sides occur - would be easier as Im using test C.

Could also do 250 test/200tren/200npp ?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Got 250mg test C already that I wanna use, so maybe just do 500mg test/300mg tren or how would you do this?
> 
> Also can I use tren A first 4 weeks, then switch to E if no sides occur - would be easier as Im using test C.
> 
> Could also do 250 test/200tren/200npp ?


 You would just take 1.2 mL per week to hit 300 mg. It's not a big deal. I would just round up myself, it won't make a big difference either way.

Yeah, you can switch from tren a to e mid cycle.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You would just take 1.2 mL per week to hit 300 mg. It's not a big deal. I would just round up myself, it won't make a big difference either way.
> 
> Yeah, you can switch from tren a to e mid cycle.


 its ampules, sorry forgot to mention

How would you make the switch? Just start tren e after last pin of tren a or should I start 1 week before


----------



## pma111

Why do people take niacin and what benefits are they trying to get from it, is there a specific dose to get the relevant benefits. Seems cheap if it does have some plus points.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I'm really hungry since some days and I crave sugar , I'm sure it's from high E2 but can you confirm that extra hunger can be a side of high E2 on cycle ?

after my big meals I crave sugar and I can eat so much more


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> its ampules, sorry forgot to mention
> 
> How would you make the switch? Just start tren e after last pin of tren a or should I start 1 week before


 Don't overcomplicate things. Stick to 250 mg test E and switch straight to tren E whenever you want.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Why do people take niacin and what benefits are they trying to get from it, is there a specific dose to get the relevant benefits. Seems cheap if it does have some plus points.


 Some high doses will increase HDL cholesterol, it's a necessary vitamin. I wouldn't megadose it, just get it from a good multivitamin.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm really hungry since some days and I crave sugar , I'm sure it's from high E2 but can you confirm that extra hunger can be a side of high E2 on cycle ?
> 
> after my big meals I crave sugar and I can eat so much more


 Androgens can increase appetite. I wouldn't necessarily say it's high E2.


----------



## pma111

In your experience is high blood pressure amongst general population more common than lower blood pressure.

And is watching salt intake really that important for bp health or overexaggerated.

And another quick query. If magnesium and potassium relax muscles does that mean a beta blocker would also help circulation rather than hinder. Whereas high stress hormomes like adrenaline would presumably be vasoconstrictive and therefore hamper circulation? (as I beleive calcium and sodium.may too).


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Don't overcomplicate things. Stick to 250 mg test E and switch straight to tren E whenever you want.


 okay 250mg test + 300mg tren? or should I do 500mg test as its ampoules I have


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay 250mg test + 300mg tren? or should I do 500mg test as its ampoules I have


 More test = more muscle and strength = more side effects

its up to you.

500 mg test and 500 mg tren means more gains but more side effects.

Its your choice to make.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> In your experience is high blood pressure amongst general population more common than lower blood pressure.
> 
> And is watching salt intake really that important for bp health or overexaggerated.
> 
> And another quick query. If magnesium and potassium relax muscles does that mean a beta blocker would also help circulation rather than hinder. Whereas high stress hormomes like adrenaline would presumably be vasoconstrictive and therefore hamper circulation? (as I beleive calcium and sodium.may too).


 There's a lot of people high BP but also a lot of people with normal BP.

Salt is maligned too often as is sugar. Most people won't see a benefit from avoiding salt but some people have a genetic sensitivity to it and elevated BP.

Generally, a beta blocker is good for circulation and heart health. Exactly, adrenaline and stims are beta agonists or beta activators instead of blockers, they have opposite effects.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Going to start a lean bulk in a couple of weeks, im keeping it basic with 600mg test e with a 500cal above maintence, what would you prefer, might add in winstrol at 50mg but undecided on that at the moment,

Pin 300mg Monday/Thursday with 0.5 adex after each jab?

Pin 600mg once a week on a Monday taking 1mg adex on the Monday or would you still split the adex dosage with 0.5 Monday/Thursday and still pin 600mg on the monday?

Cheers!


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

For a 236lbs guy at 10% it would be too much to cut on 500 TestP 500 TrenA (2ml 5x a week) then add 350 Winstrol last 4 weeks?

Or it would be better to use just 500 TestP 350 Winny and that's it?

Starting at 15 times bw in cals is that too much? Then reduce to 14 times 13 etc every couple of weeks/ every week.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Going to start a lean bulk in a couple of weeks, im keeping it basic with 600mg test e with a 500cal above maintence, what would you prefer, might add in winstrol at 50mg but undecided on that at the moment,
> 
> Pin 300mg Monday/Thursday with 0.5 adex after each jab?
> 
> Pin 600mg once a week on a Monday taking 1mg adex on the Monday or would you still split the adex dosage with 0.5 Monday/Thursday and still pin 600mg on the monday?
> 
> Cheers!


 What's your experience level? How many cycles have your ran?

I would definitely at least add an oral.

You can also consider a lower deficit to keep the gains leaner. 300 calorie surplus is enough for intermediate-advanced lifters.

You can split Monday/Thursday 300 mg and 0.5-1 mg adex with each injection.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> For a 236lbs guy at 10% it would be too much to cut on 500 TestP 500 TrenA (2ml 5x a week) then add 350 Winstrol last 4 weeks?
> 
> Or it would be better to use just 500 TestP 350 Winny and that's it?
> 
> Starting at 15 times bw in cals is that too much? Then reduce to 14 times 13 etc every couple of weeks/ every week.


 I don't go by bw x cal formula. Too inaccurate.

Use a TDEE calculator like https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ and use the katch-mcardle formula.

Test P+ Winny should be more than enough, but with that much size, the extra tren doens't hurt.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> What's your experience level? How many cycles have your ran?
> 
> I would definitely at least add an oral.
> 
> You can also consider a lower deficit to keep the gains leaner. 300 calorie surplus is enough for intermediate-advanced lifters.
> 
> You can split Monday/Thursday 300 mg and 0.5-1 mg adex with each injection.


 Been training on and off for about 10 years, the last 4 years got my head into it properly and enjoying it, this would be my 4th cycle , i thought about adding Winny 50mg ed for 4-6 weeks at start.

Yeah thats something to think about regarding the cals, il start off at 300 and see how i go, can always adjust at a later date.

I worked my ai dosage at 0.25 adex to 150mg test duro cruise, so if i times that by 4 that would give me 600mg test with 1mg adex and do bloods 5 week in to make sure.

Cheers again mate!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> More test = more muscle and strength = more side effects
> 
> its up to you.
> 
> 500 mg test and 500 mg tren means more gains but more side effects.
> 
> Its your choice to make.


 Spoke to few mates who suggested me to hold off the tren for as long as possible. In their opinion tren should only be used for advanced users like people who competes - whats your view on this? Would you generally try to avoid using tren? If so which other AAS do you prefer for adding size?

Also got told that tren mental sides can continue after stopping using it, and for some people it isnt worth using it at all?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Been training on and off for about 10 years, the last 4 years got my head into it properly and enjoying it, this would be my 4th cycle , i thought about adding Winny 50mg ed for 4-6 weeks at start.
> 
> Yeah thats something to think about regarding the cals, il start off at 300 and see how i go, can always adjust at a later date.
> 
> I worked my ai dosage at 0.25 adex to 150mg test duro cruise, so if i times that by 4 that would give me 600mg test with 1mg adex and do bloods 5 week in to make sure.
> 
> Cheers again mate!


 Anytime, you can run the winstrol through the whole cycle for better results. Your liver will be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Spoke to few mates who suggested me to hold off the tren for as long as possible. In their opinion tren should only be used for advanced users like people who competes - whats your view on this? Would you generally try to avoid using tren? If so which other AAS do you prefer for adding size?
> 
> Also got told that tren mental sides can continue after stopping using it, and for some people it isnt worth using it at all?


 Tren is overrated, and has many side effects. The three worst sides are erection issues, gynecomastia and mood swings.

I have found winstrol and superdrol to be as potent with less sides. Some respond better to tren than others though.

That's BS. once you drop tren , the mental sides will go away.

I prefer winstrol and sdrol to tren. I get better strength, pump, drying out and vascularity from both.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Tren is overrated, and has many side effects. The three worst sides are erection issues, gynecomastia and mood swings.
> 
> I have found winstrol and superdrol to be as potent with less sides. Some respond better to tren than others though.
> 
> That's BS. once you drop tren , the mental sides will go away.
> 
> I prefer winstrol and sdrol to tren. I get better strength, pump, drying out and vascularity from both.


 Well I dont think I can handle winny because of the joint issue thing.

Will 500test+500npp+50win(for as long as I can) be a better option you think than 500test+300tren for adding size and result in less side effects you think?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Well I dont think I can handle winny because of the joint issue thing.
> 
> Will 500test+500npp+50win(for as long as I can) be a better option you think than 500test+300tren for adding size and result in less side effects you think?


 Everyone responds differently, you gotta try it and see.

Some people love NPP and tren, others hate them.

In my opinion, you will get much better results from the test/npp/winstrol stack.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Anytime, you can run the winstrol through the whole cycle for better results. Your liver will be fine.


 Brilliant thank you, i never ran winstrol before so looking forward to it, im not fussed on the harder compounds like DECA or tren to be honest, rather stick to test and a good oral, will run NAC with the winstrol too.

Whats your thoughts on running cialis (taladafil) at 2.5 or 5mg a day for arteries, circulation and overall health benefits?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Everyone responds differently, you gotta try it and see.
> 
> Some people love NPP and tren, others hate them.
> 
> In my opinion, you will get much better results from the test/npp/winstrol stack.


 Thank you, helped a lot, think I will try winny, would you suggest this over SD for bulking? ?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant thank you, i never ran winstrol before so looking forward to it, im not fussed on the harder compounds like DECA or tren to be honest, rather stick to test and a good oral, will run NAC with the winstrol too.
> 
> Whats your thoughts on running cialis (taladafil) at 2.5 or 5mg a day for arteries, circulation and overall health benefits?


 TUDCA and UDCA are the only compounds that can fully protect against oral liver toxicity.

Tadalafil is good, you can do as little as 10 mg per week.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, helped a lot, think I will try winny, would you suggest this over SD for bulking? ?


 They are both excellent


----------



## Simon90

Anavar vs winstrol on a cut? I've seen online Anavar is better for maintaining mass and boost strength and winstrol is better for lbm gains and that dry hard look, which would you say is best used on.a cut? Cheers


----------



## stewedw

Imo anavar is one of the poorest per £ med you can get. The only time I liked it was when I ran it WITH won't and test. Stanavar from nuero pharma. Was mint.

Winny all day long though.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Anavar vs winstrol on a cut? I've seen online Anavar is better for maintaining mass and boost strength and winstrol is better for lbm gains and that dry hard look, which would you say is best used on.a cut? Cheers


 Winstrol is stronger per mg, will dry you out more. It's a better compound for performance and aesthetics. Also much cheaper.

Anavar is more mild on the liver, lipids, and less virilizing.


----------



## darren.1987

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Got my results back after 3 weeks into test e 500mg per week and adex at 0.5mg Monday/Wednesday/Friday.
> 
> screenshot attached
> 
> Do I need to increase adex to 0.5 EOD or is that result ok?
> 
> I am now going to add in 2ml TTM 250mg of test tren mast E. Test will remain at 500mg.
> 
> Estrogen is 129pmol/l or 35pg/ml
> 
> testosterone = 295nmol/l
> 
> I did my 2ml injection and 0.5mg adex day prior to drawing blood. (maybe why test result is so high)
> 
> Thanks


 @ElChapo

since getting my blood results back in as above and estrogen was in range i have continued with adex at the same dosage 0.5mg Mon/wed/Friday.

i added in Test Tren Mast E at 250mg of each per week and 400mg EQ (to help with possible appetite issues from tren)

So 500mg test

250 Tren/Mast

400 EQ

However I ran out of pharma arimidex this week and used UGL adex.

Had issue with ED which not really had previously at all, I am guessing the adex could be overdosed/underdosed as its ugl but could it cause this effect so quickly?

Either that or can EQ cause any problems so soon only after 7 days use.

I am sourcing some pharma adex for next week so will then continue with this instead of UGL.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo is it daft to stack orals, ie test with winny and say sdrol?


----------



## Cypionate

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo is it daft to stack orals, ie tea with winny and say sdrol?


 Think that's been answered before, stacking doesn't cause any extra hepatotoxicity, overall dosage and cycle length I think were the main culprits


----------



## shay1490

shay1490 said:


> thats it, getting another box, should i keep it at 20, or bump it?


 Update. the gyno is defo going down, nips are prety small most of the times HOWEVER once thing i've noticed, as a weed smoker, they really puff up after i smoke, so i made a decision to stop smoking weed, then continue to stay on 20mg nolva for a further 5 weeks....hopefully it makes a difference


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> since getting my blood results back in as above and estrogen was in range i have continued with adex at the same dosage 0.5mg Mon/wed/Friday.
> 
> i added in Test Tren Mast E at 250mg of each per week and 400mg EQ (to help with possible appetite issues from tren)
> 
> So 500mg test
> 
> 250 Tren/Mast
> 
> 400 EQ
> 
> However I ran out of pharma arimidex this week and used UGL adex.
> 
> Had issue with ED which not really had previously at all, I am guessing the adex could be overdosed/underdosed as its ugl but could it cause this effect so quickly?
> 
> Either that or can EQ cause any problems so soon only after 7 days use.
> 
> I am sourcing some pharma adex for next week so will then continue with this instead of UGL.





darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> since getting my blood results back in as above and estrogen was in range i have continued with adex at the same dosage 0.5mg Mon/wed/Friday.
> 
> i added in Test Tren Mast E at 250mg of each per week and 400mg EQ (to help with possible appetite issues from tren)
> 
> So 500mg test
> 
> 250 Tren/Mast
> 
> 400 EQ
> 
> However I ran out of pharma arimidex this week and used UGL adex.
> 
> Had issue with ED which not really had previously at all, I am guessing the adex could be overdosed/underdosed as its ugl but could it cause this effect so quickly?
> 
> Either that or can EQ cause any problems so soon only after 7 days use.
> 
> I am sourcing some pharma adex for next week so will then continue with this instead of UGL.


 E2 at 129 is perfect. Was that your question? We really can't guess if it's bunk or not. Too many factors can affect libido/ED.

It could be the EQ or the AI being bunk. Most likely one of the two.


----------



## Rob27

shay1490 said:


> Update. the gyno is defo going down, nips are prety small most of the times HOWEVER once thing i've noticed, as a weed smoker, they really puff up after i smoke, so i made a decision to stop smoking weed, then continue to stay on 20mg nolva for a further 5 weeks....hopefully it makes a difference


 Sorry to jump in your thread but I've heard alot of people say cannabis can contribute to gyno, dont know if this is true maybe @ElChapo can answer it, I've read on another known forum that it can, also so can alcohol.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo is it daft to stack orals, ie tea with winny and say sdrol?


 Overall dosage and length of cycle = oral toxicity.

Stacking makes no difference.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> Update. the gyno is defo going down, nips are prety small most of the times HOWEVER once thing i've noticed, as a weed smoker, they really puff up after i smoke, so i made a decision to stop smoking weed, then continue to stay on 20mg nolva for a further 5 weeks....hopefully it makes a difference


 Nolvadex does work. I see best results running it at least 8-12 weeks. Most of the time gyno will be gone between 8-12 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Sorry to jump in your thread but I've heard alot of people say cannabis can contribute to gyno, dont know if this is true maybe @ElChapo can answer it, I've read on another known forum that it can, also so can alcohol.


 I've seen some literature on it. There are mixed studies on cannabis decreasing testosterone or not having an effect. I think most of the time you shouldn't worry about it causing gyno but if you notice it affecting you in that way, consider it.

Alcohol for sure can increase the likelyhood of gyno, alcohol impairs the liver's ability to break down estrogen. Some alcoholics develop gyno due to this.


----------



## SD2017

ElChapo said:


> Alcohol for sure can increase the likelyhood of gyno, alcohol impairs the liver's ability to break down estrogen. Some alcoholics develop gyno due to this.


 Could this liver stress be a reason for getting gyno on a cycle with extended oral use even with estrogen seemingly in range?

Also have an ovidac HCG laying unopened for around two years now. Still OK to use or should the sterile water be replaced?


----------



## superpube

ElChapo said:


> Alcohol for sure can increase the likelyhood of gyno, alcohol impairs the liver's ability to break down estrogen. Some alcoholics develop gyno due to this.


 I can attest to this being the case sadly


----------



## Pancake'

Have you tried DHB and how do you rate it?

What's the minimum effective dose for muscle building of either NPP and DHB?


----------



## shay1490

ElChapo said:


> I've seen some literature on it. There are mixed studies on cannabis decreasing testosterone or not having an effect. I think most of the time you shouldn't worry about it causing gyno but if you notice it affecting you in that way, consider it.
> 
> Alcohol for sure can increase the likelyhood of gyno, alcohol impairs the liver's ability to break down estrogen. Some alcoholics develop gyno due to this.


 Alcohol defo does puff up my nipple. No doubt. another thing im cutting down on


----------



## ElChapo

SD2017 said:


> Could this liver stress be a reason for getting gyno on a cycle with extended oral use even with estrogen seemingly in range?
> 
> Also have an ovidac HCG laying unopened for around two years now. Still OK to use or should the sterile water be replaced?


 Which oral? Dbol is one of the worst for gyno. It aromtasizes to a very potent estrogen called methyl-estradiol.

The HCG might be okay if it was stored in a cool, dry, dark place.

You should use bacteriostatic water, it preserves the shelf life of reconstituted HCG.

The sterile water would still be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Have you tried DHB and how do you rate it?
> 
> What's the minimum effective dose for muscle building of either NPP and DHB?


 Not myself, my friends have ran it and they like it. Run it like you would masteron, as a DHT. It's better than masteron for drying effect, strength and tissue building.

Mast might be better for libido/mood.


----------



## iamyou

What do you think how good are mast and proviron at acting as AI? I believe 700mg proviron (100mg ED) and 500mg mast crashed my estrogen with 140mg prop. Is that even possible? Ironically I added them in to raise my libido on my tren cycle but it did the opposite.


----------



## SlinMeister

Simon90 said:


> Anavar vs winstrol on a cut? I've seen online Anavar is better for maintaining mass and boost strength and winstrol is better for lbm gains and that dry hard look, which would you say is best used on.a cut? Cheers


 I would use S23 or LGD4033 instead of Anavar.

Anavar is the weakest steroid ever invented for men, any Sarm can blow it away, and remember that Sarms are not liver toxic.

15-25mg LGD4033 vs 25-50mg Anavar?

30-40mg RAD140 vs 25-50mg Anavar? (the strenght from RAD is INSANE at 40mg prewo)

20-30mg S23 vs 25-50mg Anavar?

All these SARMS literally destroy Anavar, even the pharma grade one.


----------



## PSevens2017

I don't eat fish. I actuality wretch at the smell of it especially the really healthy beneficial type of fish. I know I'm missing out on huge benefits. To compensate I use Carlson's fish oil (lemon flavour). Based on your recommendation. Totally palatable. I aim for a tablespoon each day.

My question; how much would I benefit (heart health/cholesterol wise) by including a tablespoon of EVOO each day as well as the fish oil?

Cardio - BJJ/muay Thai 3-5 times a week, walk 4-6 miles daily, jog 30-40 mins 3-4 times a week, cycle 10 miles twice weekly HR @ 150-160 steady for 20-25 mins.


----------



## ElChapo

iamyou said:


> What do you think how good are mast and proviron at acting as AI? I believe 700mg proviron (100mg ED) and 500mg mast crashed my estrogen with 140mg prop. Is that even possible? Ironically I added them in to raise my libido on my tren cycle but it did the opposite.


 No steroid will reduce your estradiol levels.

Mast and proviron and offset some of the side effects of high E2, but the E2 levels will stay the same.

You need the right balance of androgen to estrogen for good libido. You had too much DHT to E2 ratio in your body which will lower libido.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> I don't eat fish. I actuality wretch at the smell of it especially the really healthy beneficial type of fish. I know I'm missing out on huge benefits. To compensate I use Carlson's fish oil (lemon flavour). Based on your recommendation. Totally palatable. I aim for a tablespoon each day.
> 
> My question; how much would I benefit (heart health/cholesterol wise) by including a tablespoon of EVOO each day as well as the fish oil?
> 
> Cardio - BJJ/muay Thai 3-5 times a week, walk 4-6 miles daily, jog 30-40 mins 3-4 times a week, cycle 10 miles twice weekly HR @ 150-160 steady for 20-25 mins.


 No need to add olive oil by the spoon, just cook with it when you make food.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Nolvadex does work. I see best results running it at least 8-12 weeks. Most of the time gyno will be gone between 8-12 weeks.


 What dose nolva for gyno issues? Can you still run test as normal which using nolva to treat gyno and will it kill sex drive? Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> What dose nolva for gyno issues? Can you still run test as normal which using nolva to treat gyno and will it kill sex drive? Thanks


 Nolvadex will reverse gyno from high E2 and tren/deca. Some people run it in their cycles to prevent gyno, it can reduce igf-1 though and some people can have libido, brain fog, or mood issues on it.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Nolvadex will reverse gyno from high E2 and tren/deca. Some people run it in their cycles to prevent gyno, it can reduce igf-1 though and some people can have libido, brain fog, or mood issues on it.


 it sucks that raloxifene is hard to find since some months , way better then nolva


----------



## iamyou

I had some squishy gyno left after 3 weeks of letro 2.5mg ED. When I started my tren/mast/test cycle it actually disappeared. I think masteron did it but I also nuked my prolactin by accident.


----------



## iamyou

ElChapo said:


> No steroid will reduce your estradiol levels.
> 
> Mast and proviron and offset some of the side effects of high E2, but the E2 levels will stay the same.
> 
> You need the right balance of androgen to estrogen for good libido. You had too much DHT to E2 ratio in your body which will lower libido.


 If they all need to be in balance then it seems impossible to do all three: be dry to the bone, good libido and feel good... I can only manage 1 or 2 at a time.

Caber is just ridiculous stuff. I took a total of 0.75mg and it completely nuked my prolactin again. I'm guessing low prolactin plays a role too in libido. It's hard to keep my eyes open. Everything is so bright. A weird side effect of low prolactin.


----------



## SlinMeister

iamyou said:


> If they all need to be in balance then it seems impossible to do all three: be dry to the bone, good libido and feel good... I can only manage 1 or 2 at a time.
> 
> Caber is just ridiculous stuff. I took a total of 0.75mg and it completely nuked my prolactin again. I'm guessing low prolactin plays a role too in libido. It's hard to keep my eyes open. Everything is so bright. A weird side effect of low prolactin.


 I think you are too susceptible about drugs....

There are no "effects of low prolactin". You can't use AAS to kill E2.

And yes, you can look dry to the bone and have good libido.

It's called having ENOUGH estrogens..... but do some researches and blood tests and learn how YOUR BODY works.

On 300 TestP 300 TrenA 350 Proviron 350 Winstrol some Adex, 3 years ago i was DRY TO THE BONE and a SEX MANIAC.


----------



## iamyou

SlinMeister said:


> I think you are too susceptible about drugs....
> 
> There are no "effects of low prolactin". You can't use AAS to kill E2.
> 
> And yes, you can look dry to the bone and have good libido.
> 
> It's called having ENOUGH estrogens..... but do some researches and blood tests and learn how YOUR BODY works.
> 
> On 300 TestP 300 TrenA 350 Proviron 350 Winstrol some Adex, 3 years ago i was DRY TO THE BONE and a SEX MANIAC.


 Everything was working fine before I added tren. Been trying to bring libido back ever since adding it in. Can't test for e2 on tren either since it affects the results.

As far as I know both mast and proviron can reduce estrogen aromatization.


----------



## 6083

Elchapo

As I don't really fancy being dead at 55/60 with a heart attack I plan on doing regular cardio.

Considering I am mid quite a large cycle what kind of cardio do you recommend, I like the rowing machine, how long for, what BPM threshold? Also do I need to worry about heart size and cardio increasing it?


----------



## ElChapo

iamyou said:


> If they all need to be in balance then it seems impossible to do all three: be dry to the bone, good libido and feel good... I can only manage 1 or 2 at a time.
> 
> Caber is just ridiculous stuff. I took a total of 0.75mg and it completely nuked my prolactin again. I'm guessing low prolactin plays a role too in libido. It's hard to keep my eyes open. Everything is so bright. A weird side effect of low prolactin.


 Everyone is different. Some guys feel fine or better with low E2.

Genetics is a big part of this game. Some can be single digit body fat year round comfortably, others can't do it at all, most are in between.


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> Elchapo
> 
> As I don't really fancy being dead at 55/60 with a heart attack I plan on doing regular cardio.
> 
> Considering I am mid quite a large cycle what kind of cardio do you recommend, I like the rowing machine, how long for, what BPM threshold? Also do I need to worry about heart size and cardio increasing it?


 Good aim is 140-160 bpm, 20-30 mins, x 2-6 per week. Don't overdo it as you don't want to burn out and quit. Find a comfortable protocol you will stick to long-term.

There is pathological (bad) and benign (neutral) heart size increase. Exercise causes the latter.


----------



## 6083

ElChapo said:


> Good aim is 140-160 bpm, 20-30 mins, x 2-6 per week. Don't overdo it as you don't want to burn out and quit. Find a comfortable protocol you will stick to long-term.
> 
> There is pathological (bad) and benign (neutral) heart size increase. Exercise causes the latter.


 Thanks,

What causes people like rich piana and dallas to die and have huge hearts, just rampant blood pressure?


----------



## Baka

GTT said:


> Thanks,
> 
> What causes people like rich piana and dallas to die and have huge hearts, just rampant blood pressure?


 drug abuse , AAS and some other drugs (rich piana took a lot of rec drugs).

stimulants like ephedrine are also really bad for the heart health , + T3+ AAS + BP + no cardio + bad lipids profile + high RBC = bad things.


----------



## Pancake'

GTT said:


> Thanks,
> 
> What causes people like rich piana and dallas to die and have huge hearts, just rampant blood pressure?


 Never actually coming off cycles will be a big one. It's one big cycle from start to finish for them.

Do you think Dallas or Rich would of cruised on 250mg test? no chance. Genetic predispositions + chronic abusers of peds + recreational drugs + overall diet & lifestyle.


----------



## ElChapo

GTT said:


> Thanks,
> 
> What causes people like rich piana and dallas to die and have huge hearts, just rampant blood pressure?


 Very high doses for long periods, genetics susceptibility to heart disease is the main factor.

The high BP damages the heart and vascular system, the testosterone and estrogen can cause changes in the heart structure and veins/arteries as well, you also have the chages to the lipids; decreased HDL/increased LDL. Elevated RBC makes the blood thicker and more likely to coagulate, also makes the heart work harder having to pump thicker blood.

There are rumours that Piana did cocaine and who knows what else.


----------



## ElChapo

iamyou said:


> Everything was working fine before I added tren. Been trying to bring libido back ever since adding it in. Can't test for e2 on tren either since it affects the results.
> 
> As far as I know both mast and proviron can reduce estrogen aromatization.


 Tren can lower libido by itself. It's a very weird hormone. It can also increase libido. Depends on your genetics and what you run it with.

For me, tren only increases libido. With test, it lowers libido. Could be the E2 as well. It seems to exacerbate high E2 symptoms.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo do you know any benefits other then gyno protection from raloxifen in men ?

I've read a lot about it , and it is used for osteoporosis in menopausal women , but is it good for bone density in healthy young men ?

Is it really neurotoxic if used at 30mg ?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapothoughts on whether these ingredients and therefore supplement are worth adding?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapothoughts on whether these ingredients and therefore supplement are worth adding?


----------



## Pancake'

stewedw said:


> @ElChapothoughts on whether these ingredients and therefore supplement are worth adding?


 Just get yourself melatonin mate and a high carb meal pre bed. that's just an overpriced pushed supp of your typical b vitamins & magnesium.


----------



## TURBS

Pancake' said:


> Just get yourself melatonin mate and a high carb meal pre bed. that's just an overpriced pushed supp of your typical b vitamins & magnesium.


 Already told him that in another thread lol


----------



## Pancake'

TERBO said:


> Already told him that in another thread lol


 I'm sure it's like £40-50 as well?

If you really wanted the benefits the supp, you'd be better off buying the ingredients individually. You've lost already when you're forking out the best part of 50 quid for a decent nights kip lol. very catchy though "sleep stack" I bet it's sold.


----------



## TURBS

Pancake' said:


> I'm sure it's like £40-50 as well?
> 
> If you really wanted the benefits the supp, you'd be better off buying the ingredients individually. You've lost already when you're forking out the best part of 50 quid for a decent nights kip lol. very catchy though "sleep stack" I bet it's sold.


 Stop it, you're pretty much quoting me now and yes think they were £45 :lol:


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo

Checked my prolactin and e2 levels which came back in range 10 days ago

however have a small lump less than half a pea sized (nolvadex shrunk it down) and slight discharge from left nipple.. been there for 18 months now.

iv just read I could possibly still have high progesterone (not had this checked as was unaware of it) which could be what is causing the gyno to remain/slight lactation when squeezed.

This would also explain my lower libido/ on and off ED symptoms.

what med can lower progesterone as cannot find anything online?

I am going to get progesterone blood test done so I know for sure, can tren or mast effect the result?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo do you know any benefits other then gyno protection from raloxifen in men ?
> 
> I've read a lot about it , and it is used for osteoporosis in menopausal women , but is it good for bone density in healthy young men ?
> 
> Is it really neurotoxic if used at 30mg ?


 I don't think it would do much for bone density in healthy men, as a healthy man would already have decent levels of testosterone, E2 and GH.

Menopausal woman have low E2 levels, and that's what raloxifene is addressing and the mechanism by which it increases bone density.

Raloxifene has not been linked to neurotoxicity, that's nolvadex.

Ralox has been shown to improve lipids and might have anti-depressant effects, but these are studies on women, usually post-menopausal.


----------



## swole troll

Pancake' said:


> I'm sure it's like £40-50 as well?
> 
> If you really wanted the benefits the supp, you'd be better off buying the ingredients individually. You've lost already when you're forking out the best part of 50 quid for a decent nights kip lol. very catchy though "sleep stack" I bet it's sold.


 I'll never buy a single one of Dr dyel mart's supplements after the price of his shitty sleep supp

1-3mg melatonin trumps it less than half the price

Dean Mart is a shill.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapothoughts on whether these ingredients and therefore supplement are worth adding?
> 
> View attachment 169791


 The beetroot has some evidence.

I don't see what's in the sleep one.

You're probably better off buying the beetroot separate (take 500-1000 mg) and some magnesium glycinate.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Just get yourself melatonin mate and a high carb meal pre bed. that's just an overpriced pushed supp of your typical b vitamins & magnesium.


 Agree with this, Keep caffeine and exercise away from the evening.

Take some mag glycinate or citrate in the evening with dinner.

Carbs at dinner increase tryptophan and serotonin which increases rest and sleep. This is why keto/low carb diets and caloric deficits leads to insomnia and poor sleep, the lack of carbs and calories puts you in a fight or flight/stress mode with too much cortisol/adrenaline and not enough serotonin/tryptophan.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Checked my prolactin and e2 levels which came back in range 10 days ago
> 
> however have a small lump less than half a pea sized (nolvadex shrunk it down) and slight discharge from left nipple.. been there for 18 months now.
> 
> iv just read I could possibly still have high progesterone (not had this checked as was unaware of it) which could be what is causing the gyno to remain/slight lactation when squeezed.
> 
> This would also explain my lower libido/ on and off ED symptoms.
> 
> what med can lower progesterone as cannot find anything online?
> 
> I am going to get progesterone blood test done so I know for sure, can tren or mast effect the result?


 Stop squeezing your nipples. If you are lactating discharge without squeezing i would be concerned, but don't squeeze your nipples.

How long did you run nolvadex? have you tried raloxifene?

Are you on any AAS? What is your total test and E2 level? Doubt your problem is progesterone.

If you are on tren, this will lower libido in a lot people and cause gyno.


----------



## stewedw

Cheers for the answers guys, @swole trollWhere's best UK wise for melatonin, the site I was give is American and everything I search for in the UK has 5htp in it, no melatonin. (sorry if I'm being thick here)

Cheers again.


----------



## stewedw

TERBO said:


> Already told him that in another thread lol


 sorry mate, I had taken your advice on the sleep. supp but wanted info on the blood pressure one. since the screenshot had them both it was easier to ask again, cheers for the replies ill be getting what you and swole troll suggested.


----------



## nickc300

@ElChapo

Somewhere in the thread I saw you mention a good 'all rounder' health supp. Cant remember for the life of me what it was though.

Could you post up again for me mate. Much appreciated.


----------



## drwae

stewedw said:


> Cheers for the answers guys, @swole trollWhere's best UK wise for melatonin, the site I was give is American and everything I search for in the UK has 5htp in it, no melatonin. (sorry if I'm being thick here)
> 
> Cheers again.


 melatonin is prescription only in the uk you can get it off american sites or sometimes you can find it on eBay


----------



## ElChapo

nickc300 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Somewhere in the thread I saw you mention a good 'all rounder' health supp. Cant remember for the life of me what it was though.
> 
> Could you post up again for me mate. Much appreciated.


 I like the following:

1. Multivitamin - Now Foods True balance, has the most bioavailable/high quality forms at good doses. You can take a half or full dose with biggest meal of the day.

2. Anti-inflammatory - Curcumin with piperine or Meriva Curcumin from Jarrow foods.

3. Anti-oxidant/cardiovascular health - Pycnogenol or pine bark extract.

Bonus:

Dietary deficiencies: Supplement magnesium citrate(200-400 mg), Vitamin D3 (5k IU) with biggest meal, Protein powder if protein intake is low. (otherwise not necessary)

I'm not one for wasting money or time on supplements, most are garbage BS and marketing hype. The ones listed above have tons of research proving their efficacy.


----------



## TURBS

stewedw said:


> Cheers for the answers guys, @swole trollWhere's best UK wise for melatonin, the site I was give is American and everything I search for in the UK has 5htp in it, no melatonin. (sorry if I'm being thick here)
> 
> Cheers again.


 https://uk.iherb.com/search?kw=melatonin

Even paying for the cheapest delivery it only takes 7-10 days.


----------



## pma111

Are there any nsaids which dont trouble and aggrevate a sensitive stomach (ulcers/gastritis).

Also re corticosteroids for inflammatory issues like crohns/colitis,is there any truth that they can worsen arterial plaque used long term. I appreciate curcumin helps some but presume corticosteroids are stronger for major inflammatory issues.


----------



## swole troll

nickc300 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Somewhere in the thread I saw you mention a good 'all rounder' health supp. Cant remember for the life of me what it was though.
> 
> Could you post up again for me mate. Much appreciated.


 Few others have linked places

I buy mine off eBay

Comes and goes on there quite often


----------



## stewedw

TERBO said:


> https://uk.iherb.com/search?kw=melatonin
> 
> Even paying for the cheapest delivery it only takes 7-10 days.


 Cheers mate, last time I got USA imported stuff it was seized at customs then a charge from them and royal mail added but I'll give this one a go. Thanks again.


----------



## TURBS

stewedw said:


> Cheers mate, last time I got USA imported stuff it was seized at customs then a charge from them and royal mail added but I'll give this one a go. Thanks again.


 Yeah I've had similar happen but with iherb, no such problems


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> Stop squeezing your nipples. If you are lactating discharge without squeezing i would be concerned, but don't squeeze your nipples.
> 
> How long did you run nolvadex? have you tried raloxifene?
> 
> Are you on any AAS? What is your total test and E2 level? Doubt your problem is progesterone.
> 
> If you are on tren, this will lower libido in a lot people and cause gyno.


 tried nolvadex for 6 weeks whilst on Trt dose of test e for 10 weeks. lump shrunk down considerably (non existent) as you said it would do.

however still had tiny amount of lactation when I squeezed nipple.

at the moment I'm on 500mg test e just added in TTM and EQ only a week ago.

Test level was 295nmol/l

estrogen 129pmol/l

prolactin was in range (doctor checked this for me 2 weeks ago)

so basically everything is in range however iv never checked progesterone level so if everything else is correct I'm guessing this is the only other possibility?

iv had this issue for 18 months ( used caber/nolva/ adex when i first got the gyno it went away in right nipple but left side has remained.

the caber didn't do anything for lactating but crashed prolactin)


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> tried nolvadex for 6 weeks whilst on Trt dose of test e for 10 weeks. lump shrunk down considerably (non existent) as you said it would do.
> 
> however still had tiny amount of lactation when I squeezed nipple.
> 
> at the moment I'm on 500mg test e just added in TTM and EQ only a week ago.
> 
> Test level was 295nmol/l
> 
> estrogen 129pmol/l
> 
> prolactin was in range (doctor checked this for me 2 weeks ago)
> 
> so basically everything is in range however iv never checked progesterone level so if everything else is correct I'm guessing this is the only other possibility?
> 
> iv had this issue for 18 months ( used caber/nolva/ adex when i first got the gyno it went away in right nipple but left side has remained.
> 
> the caber didn't do anything for lactating but crashed prolactin)


 You gotta run it longer than 6 weeks then. Best results are after 8-12 weeks and you can take it as long as a year and it can keep working.

Caber doesn't do anything for gyno.

Tren can cause diminished libido and gyno.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> I like the following:
> 
> 1. Multivitamin - Now Foods True balance, has the most bioavailable/high quality forms at good doses. You can take a half or full dose with biggest meal of the day.
> 
> 2. Anti-inflammatory - Curcumin with piperine or Meriva Curcumin from Jarrow foods.
> 
> 3. Anti-oxidant/cardiovascular health - Pycnogenol or pine bark extract.
> 
> Bonus:
> 
> Dietary deficiencies: Supplement magnesium citrate(200-400 mg), Vitamin D3 (5k IU) with biggest meal, Protein powder if protein intake is low. (otherwise not necessary)
> 
> I'm not one for wasting money or time on supplements, most are garbage BS and marketing hype. The ones listed above have tons of research proving their efficacy.


 Do you think Q10 is a waste of money then?


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Do you think Q10 is a waste of money then?


 It's likely helpful in aging/elderly, and those who take statins. Both things are known to reduce levels.

May also be useful for people with poor circulation and fibromyalgia. It's not a bad supplement at all.

Fun fact, chicken hearts are a rich dietary source of Q10.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> You gotta run it longer than 6 weeks then. Best results are after 8-12 weeks and you can take it as long as a year and it can keep working.
> 
> Caber doesn't do anything for gyno.
> 
> Tren can cause diminished libido and gyno.


 Alright so run nolvadex even on cycle for 8-12 weeks or only on TRT dose of test?

what else could be the cause of the lactation if E2 and prolactin are in range though


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> Alright so run nolvadex even on cycle for 8-12 weeks or only on TRT dose of test?
> 
> what else could be the cause of the lactation if E2 and prolactin are in range though


 It won't work if you are taking tren. Best used on TRT dose test.

Stop squeezing your nipple, if you have to squeeze it to get liquid out, it's not lactation.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> It's likely helpful in aging/elderly, and those who take statins. Both things are known to reduce levels.
> 
> May also be useful for people with poor circulation and fibromyalgia. It's not a bad supplement at all.
> 
> Fun fact, chicken hearts are a rich dietary source of Q10.


 Well Iam not that old yet and don't have any problems with circulation so i think I will save my self the money and not bother reordering.


----------



## nickc300

ElChapo said:


> I like the following:
> 
> 1. Multivitamin - Now Foods True balance, has the most bioavailable/high quality forms at good doses. You can take a half or full dose with biggest meal of the day.
> 
> 2. Anti-inflammatory - Curcumin with piperine or Meriva Curcumin from Jarrow foods.
> 
> 3. Anti-oxidant/cardiovascular health - Pycnogenol or pine bark extract.
> 
> Bonus:
> 
> Dietary deficiencies: Supplement magnesium citrate(200-400 mg), Vitamin D3 (5k IU) with biggest meal, Protein powder if protein intake is low. (otherwise not necessary)
> 
> I'm not one for wasting money or time on supplements, most are garbage BS and marketing hype. The ones listed above have tons of research proving their efficacy.


 Perfect mate. Thanks very much


----------



## Ferenor

If I take Telmisartan (an ARB) will it decrease the fat loss from the Clenbuterol?


----------



## arbffgadm100

TITO said:


> @arbffgadm100
> 
> @El Chapo
> 
> i really want to start learning jujitsu but worried how it will affect my training recovery etc? (Also nervous as fcuk)
> 
> any tips on structuring a routine around it?
> 
> say if I train jujitsu 2-3 times per week?


 The best thing you can do is go down there with an open mind and don't judge it on a handful of sessions.

On the one hand, you'll come out of every session for the next year feeling like you've been hit by a train. BJJ is a looonnng game.

On the other, what you'll come to realise is that people were actually going really easy on you. No one is being a dick to a fresh new white belt.. even if you are completely helpless and get "smashed" every session.

But, that feeling the first time you come out without being submitted, or having submitted someone.. or having had your hand raised by a ref in a comp, or standing on the podium with a gold medal... it's really hard to beat. Some of my best memories are from white belt. Enjoy the ride and don't try to rush it. BJJ is for life. It's one of the most utterly immersive and satisfying things you can ever do. Every day you will experience elating triumph and shattering defeat. Every day you are learning and growing. Every day, for one hour, absolutely nothing else matters.

BJJ is the reason I don't meditate. My "head space" is created by the "problem solving under conditions of stress" that is trying to take another man to the ground and choke him out while he does the same to you. In that moment, there are no money problems, relationship problems, work problems. It's just you and him.

And unlike MMA and boxing, you can attack him with 100% ferocity and force, 100% of the time. Clearly you can't train like that 7 days a week if you kicking or punching someone in the face.

Don't worry about calories and fitting it in. Just go down there, learn, experience the hurt, and you'll pretty soon find that you don't have to worry about fitting BJJ in, because you'll find yourself fitting everything else around BJJ.


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> If I take Telmisartan (an ARB) will it decrease the fat loss from the Clenbuterol?


 No because it doesn't affect beta or alpha adrenergic activity in the body. It works by the angiotensin receptor which controls blood vessel relaxation.


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

ElChapo said:


> I recommend at least 2-3 days of cardio 20-30 minutes, heart rate around 140-160 bpm. You can do jogging, swimming, bicycle, MMA/boxing, etc. Pick something that's fun or somewhat enjoyable so you can stick to it long term. Make sure to drop any excess body fat, there's no reason for anyone to be over 15% body fat.


 I started doing cardio (hometrainer), but I find it hard to get my heart rate around 140-160 bpm. Mine is around 120-130 at quite a high pace.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Malin

T3 on test and tren cutting cycle, would you use it, if so up to what dose?


----------



## pma111

Are there any nsaids which dont trouble and aggrevate a sensitive stomach (ulcers/gastritis).

Also re corticosteroids for inflammatory issues like crohns/colitis,is there any truth that they can worsen arterial plaque used long term. I appreciate curcumin helps some but presume corticosteroids are stronger for major inflammatory issues.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

How would you approach a looong offseason? something like 32weeks straight.

I was thinking to something like:

300 TestP and go up to 700 TestP ew

350 Winny rotated every 8 weeks with 350 TrenA

Basically up the dose and the cals accordingly to the weight gain.


----------



## Jonk891

@El Chapo

If you were to pick any joint/tendon/ligament support supplements for preventing and helping with recovery which ones would you pick that are effective, if any are.


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> I started doing cardio (hometrainer), but I find it hard to get my heart rate around 140-160 bpm. Mine is around 120-130 at quite a high pace.
> 
> Any suggestions?


 I also find it takes more effort to get BPM higher on a bike. 130 BPM is still really good. I do prefer jogging at 5-6 mph for 20 mins myself on a treadmill.

You can also do a semi-HIIT style, where you sprint up to +170 BPM then go slower to hit 140-160 bpm.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> T3 on test and tren cutting cycle, would you use it, if so up to what dose?


 It's not a very good standalone fat burner. The doses that increase fat loss significantly can make you flat, weak and hungry.

At 25-50 mcg it's good for stopping the metabolic slow down from cutting and it can enhance the fat loss from other fat burners like clen, yohimbine and ephedrine by increasing the sensitivity of the receptors they act upon.

When taking T3, keep carbs high to prevent flatness.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Are there any nsaids which dont trouble and aggrevate a sensitive stomach (ulcers/gastritis).
> 
> Also re corticosteroids for inflammatory issues like crohns/colitis,is there any truth that they can worsen arterial plaque used long term. I appreciate curcumin helps some but presume corticosteroids are stronger for major inflammatory issues.


 Meriva Curcumin has been shown to be as effective as ibuprofen in some studies. It does work, but in my experience not as effective as high dose ibuprofen. You would take 2 grams of Meriva curcumin with a meal for pain.

Corticosteroids will mess up your whole body with long term use. They increase insulin resistance among other things. They are very effective for inflammation but cause a wide range of systemic side effects. It depends on what issue you are treating and if the trade off is worth it.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> How would you approach a looong offseason? something like 32weeks straight.
> 
> I was thinking to something like:
> 
> 300 TestP and go up to 700 TestP ew
> 
> 350 Winny rotated every 8 weeks with 350 TrenA
> 
> Basically up the dose and the cals accordingly to the weight gain.


 Yeah, that sounds solid.


----------



## Jonk891

I'm only able to weight train 2 times a week now as I'm boxing 3 times a week. How would you set a effective routine using only the 2 days.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If you were to pick any joint/tendon/ligament support supplements for preventing and helping with recovery which ones would you pick that are effective, if any are.


 1. Meriva Curcumin 1 gram daily

2. Pycnogenol 100-200 mg daily

3. Glucosamine/Chondroitin 1,500/1000 mg (this one is hit or miss for some people/mixed results in studies)


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I'm only able to weight train 2 times a week now as I'm boxing 3 times a week. How would you set a effective routine using only the 2 days.


 Two days is more than enough. Is the goal maintenance or increased mass?

Regardless, hit each body part at least once a weak with at least one day at 90-100% maximum intensity. The split or exercises you use don't matter. If you want to gain mass/strength, increase the weight or reps as often as possible with perfect form and eat a 250-300 calorie surplus.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Two days is more than enough. Is the goal maintenance or increased mass?
> 
> Regardless, hit each body part at least once a weak with at least one day at 90-100% maximum intensity. The split or exercises you use don't matter. If you want to gain mass/strength, increase the weight or reps as often as possible with perfect form and eat a 250-300 calorie surplus.


 I'd be happy to just maintain. I have dropped around 10lbs since I stated boxing but that's due to not upping calories so my weight will increase when I up them to 4000. The boxing sessions are 2 hours long.

30 mins skipping

15 min circuit

Shadow boxing

Bags or pads

Sparring

For weights I plan to do

Tuesday - push

Friday - pull/legs


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I'd be happy to just maintain. I have dropped around 10lbs since I stated boxing but that's due to not upping calories so my weight will increase when I up them to 4000. The boxing sessions are 2 hours long.
> 
> 30 mins skipping
> 
> 15 min circuit
> 
> Shadow boxing
> 
> Bags or pads
> 
> Sparring
> 
> For weights I plan to do
> 
> Tuesday - push
> 
> Friday - pull/legs


 Yeah, i'll you gotta do is hit each muscle group once a week. Keep track of your strength, if it's staying the same, you aren't losing muscle.


----------



## Simon90

Hya mate I dont pin quads and when I did today I went too much on the side where the cross is and in it band. Will ths be a problem? Will it have still gone IM and be absorbed


----------



## Sasnak

Does mildly elevated prolactin reduce natural testosterone production, in this instance 396 mU/L, or would natural test production be the same?

Thanks


----------



## Mickstar

Hi I've been training for a while without any breaks and I can feel myself starting to struggle with certain lifts ,which I'm starting to lose strength and not hit my previous reps, would a week off doing nothing but light cardio help recover and eat at maintenance help, or would there be a better deload protocol.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hya mate I dont pin quads and when I did today I went too much on the side where the cross is and in it band. Will ths be a problem? Will it have still gone IM and be absorbed
> 
> View attachment 169927


 Quads can be hit or miss. They are great when you get a good spot due to easy access but there is a lot of nerves, blood vessels and connective tissues in there.

I say 50/50 you might get pip or you might get lucky.

On the first signs of PIP, take 400 mg ibuprofen every 6-8 hours and don't stop until 48 hours. This will clear it up.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> Does mildly elevated prolactin reduce natural testosterone production, in this instance 396 mU/L, or would natural test production be the same?
> 
> Thanks


 Not sure but typically when prolactin is high, test is low.

Even if test is high, prolactin tends to inhibit many of the positive effects of testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi I've been training for a while without any breaks and I can feel myself starting to struggle with certain lifts ,which I'm starting to lose strength and not hit my previous reps, would a week off doing nothing but light cardio help recover and eat at maintenance help, or would there be a better deload protocol.


 A week off always works for me. After a while your muscles, connective tissues and CNS need a break.

Take a full week off including the cardio, you will feel 100% restored. It takes 3-4 weeks of no training to start losing muscle and strength.


----------



## gymaddict1986

ElChapo said:


> A week off always works for me. After a while your muscles, connective tissues and CNS need a break.
> 
> Take a full week off including the cardio, you will feel 100% restored. It takes 3-4 weeks of no training to start losing muscle and strength.


 Hi elchapo. I was wondering if I could take a few minutes of your time to check my blood please? I was wondering if the red markers are anything to worry about? I have been off 4 months. Would I be ok for another cycle. Many thanks


----------



## zariph

What can cause nose bleeds while on cycle besides high BP and high hematocrit=?


----------



## ElChapo

gymaddict1986 said:


> Hi elchapo. I was wondering if I could take a few minutes of your time to check my blood please? I was wondering if the red markers are anything to worry about? I have been off 4 months. Would I be ok for another cycle. Many thanks
> 
> View attachment 169933
> 
> 
> View attachment 169935


 Looks fine, just note that the damage we fear from AAS is something you will never see on bloodwork. Blood work is vastly overrated and has limited use in limiting the damage from AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> What can cause nose bleeds while on cycle besides high BP and high hematocrit=?


 That would be the likely culprit.


----------



## 6083

zariph said:


> What can cause nose bleeds while on cycle besides high BP and high hematocrit=?


 Or accutane if you are on it, or hitting yourself in the face with a dumbell....


----------



## pma111

Is there anything that can be done to boost nitric oxide levels naturally. From what I understand cialis etc does not work so well if you have lower levels of nitric oxide circulating as that is what they work with. I read arginine may be useful, and high nitrate foods?


----------



## iamyou

pma111 said:


> Is there anything that can be done to boost nitric oxide levels naturally. From what I understand cialis etc does not work so well if you have lower levels of nitric oxide circulating as that is what they work with. I read arginine may be useful, and high nitrate foods?


 Beetroot extract gave me the same effect as a small cialis dose


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo what is your opinion on permanent use of HGH/peptides for the benefits?

It seems as if the scientific community is talking about an IGF 1 tradeoff, saying that IGF 1 has numerous benefits but at the cost of longevity/life span.

This seems confusing as i thought it was only a problem if cancer occured? And as long as cancer is not present then no worries?


----------



## Lancashiregent

ElChapo said:


> Looks fine, just note that the damage we fear from AAS is something you will never see on bloodwork. Blood work is vastly overrated and has limited use in limiting the damage from AAS.


 Interesting you say blood work has limited use in limiting the damage from AAS.

Assuming best case scenario and unlimited access to any and all medical tests and scans and arterial checks,is it possible to find out the ACTUAL state of your health/damage that might done.

Would heart scans show up damage?

Is it possible to check arterial damage in any way?

What tests/scans can be done to establish exactly where your health is at on a comprehensive detailed level?

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is there anything that can be done to boost nitric oxide levels naturally. From what I understand cialis etc does not work so well if you have lower levels of nitric oxide circulating as that is what they work with. I read arginine may be useful, and high nitrate foods?


 Pycnogenol, Cocoa, curcumin, L-citrulline (increases endogenous levels of arginine better than arginine itself)

Nitrate consumption too, beets are really effective.

Cialis will still work no matter what.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo what is your opinion on permanent use of HGH/peptides for the benefits?
> 
> It seems as if the scientific community is talking about an IGF 1 tradeoff, saying that IGF 1 has numerous benefits but at the cost of longevity/life span.
> 
> This seems confusing as i thought it was only a problem if cancer occured? And as long as cancer is not present then no worries?


 The jury is still out, some research even shows a protective effect of IGF-1 against cancers. Like most things, if we stay in the physiological range, you should reap the benefits with minimal sides and risk. Replacement dose GH to get IGF-1 to normal youthful levels (200-300 ng/mL) which can be achieve with 1-2 IU daily for month people.

If cancer is there, then yes, increasing IGF may increase the growth.


----------



## ElChapo

Lancashiregent said:


> Interesting you say blood work has limited use in limiting the damage from AAS.
> 
> Assuming best case scenario and unlimited access to any and all medical tests and scans and arterial checks,is it possible to find out the ACTUAL state of your health/damage that might done.
> 
> Would heart scans show up damage?
> 
> Is it possible to check arterial damage in any way?
> 
> What tests/scans can be done to establish exactly where your health is at on a comprehensive detailed level?
> 
> Many thanks


 Yeah, a calcium scoring of the heart lets you see calcification levels. My father is in his early 50's and has the calcium scoring of an 18 year old. He has exercised his whole life and to this day does daily cardio and lifts regularly. He eats a steady diet of steaks, wine, and beer.

EKG can look for abnormal heart rhythm too, and other types of imaging can look at the blood flow in the heart and the condition of the important structures.

Blood work does very little to show any damage from PEDs gives AAS user's too much comfort in my opinion. At best you might see impaired lipid ratio and elevated liver enzymes, but these are acute changes and don't show the real risk associated with long term AAS use.


----------



## arbffgadm100

pma111 said:


> Is there anything that can be done to boost nitric oxide levels naturally. From what I understand cialis etc does not work so well if you have lower levels of nitric oxide circulating as that is what they work with. I read arginine may be useful, and high nitrate foods?


 Nose breathing.

Foods high in nitrates (beetroot).

L-arginine.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, a calcium scoring of the heart lets you see calcification levels. My father is in his early 50's and has the calcium scoring of an 18 year old. He has exercised his whole life and to this day does daily cardio and lifts regularly. He eats a steady diet of steaks, wine, and beer.
> 
> EKG can look for abnormal heart rhythm too, and other types of imaging can look at the blood flow in the heart and the condition of the important structures.
> 
> Blood work does very little to show any damage from PEDs gives AAS user's too much comfort in my opinion. At best you might see impaired lipid ratio and elevated liver enzymes, but these are acute changes and don't show the real risk associated with long term AAS use.


 Agree. This is where stuff like (list is no where near exhaustive) curcumin, pycnogenol, k2, etc all come in.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

arbffgadm100 said:


> Nose breathing.
> 
> Foods high in nitrates (beetroot).
> 
> L-arginine.


 Really? I was about to get some cialis partly due to the NO increase


----------



## stewedw

Two weeks into 900test e 400npp.

Thursday night, took a precautionary viagra and cialis as was on a rare night out. Five mins into sex it just goes soft. I think maybe it's the booze which wasn't that much in fairness. The following two days including today I've had a quick swatch of porn, almost zero reaction to it.

Any ideas? Npp is the obvious but I've never ever had probs like this, I even ran test tren npp together once and was fine. Libido can come and go but everything always works, especially if a half tab of cialis is thrown in.

I'm also aware the test could be bunk, but I've pals running it and they have no issue and I've low estrogen as there was a two week gap between 300mg of my old lab test e and the new one. Only running aromsin at 12.5 twice a week..

Cheers in advance


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Two weeks into 900test e 400npp.
> 
> Thursday night, took a precautionary viagra and cialis as was on a rare night out. Five mins into sex it just goes soft. I think maybe it's the booze which wasn't that much in fairness. The following two days including today I've had a quick swatch of porn, almost zero reaction to it.
> 
> Any ideas? Npp is the obvious but I've never ever had probs like this, I even ran test tren npp together once and was fine. Libido can come and go but everything always works, especially if a half tab of cialis is thrown in.
> 
> I'm also aware the test could be bunk, but I've pals running it and they have no issue and I've low estrogen as there was a two week gap between 300mg of my old lab test e and the new one. Only running aromsin at 12.5 twice a week..
> 
> Cheers in advance


 High e2 + 19nor can crush libido and lead to spaghetti dick.

Are you one 12.5 mg aromasin on 900 mg test e? That's not close to enough if so, and NPP will also produce some E2.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Really? I was about to get some cialis partly due to the NO increase


 Tadalafil/cialis will increase NO by block the enzyme that breaks down NO.

L-Citrulline is actually better than arginine at increases arginine levels.

(just like NAC is better at increasing glutathione than taking glutathione)


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> High e2 + 19nor can crush libido and lead to spaghetti dick.
> 
> Are you one 12.5 mg aromasin on 900 mg test e? That's not close to enough if so, and NPP will also produce some E2.


 12.5 aromsin twice a week sorry. That still too low? I've zero high estrogen side in the slightest hence keeping it low, but can increase.

I'd read that cialis etc doesn't work much with low e so that it as that actually


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> 12.5 aromsin twice a week sorry. That still too low? I've zero high estrogen side in the slightest hence keeping it low, but can increase.
> 
> I'd read that cialis etc doesn't work much with low e so that it as that actually


 25 mg per week is way too low for a gram of test. You probably need at least 50-100 mg depending on how much you aromatize.


----------



## stewedw

Thanks mate.


----------



## arbffgadm100

stewedw said:


> 12.5 aromsin twice a week sorry. That still too low? I've zero high estrogen side in the slightest hence keeping it low, but can increase.
> 
> I'd read that cialis etc doesn't work much with low e so that it as that actually


 Based purely on my own experience I'd say that waaaaaay too low . I need 12.5 EOD at 600-750.


----------



## stewedw

Cool, I used to run 25mg eod and then showed signs last year of dry skin and low estrogen, dry joints etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but taking say 25mg today and tomorrow will prevent further build up, but won't lower current levels? So if e is high I'm stopping it increasing by adding aromasin and it drops on its on. I've read estrogen half life has under 48 hours?

Just wondering essentially when I would expect it to drop etc.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Cool, I used to run 25mg eod and then showed signs last year of dry skin and low estrogen, dry joints etc.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but taking say 25mg today and tomorrow will prevent further build up, but won't lower current levels? So if e is high I'm stopping it increasing by adding aromasin and it drops on its on. I've read estrogen half life has under 48 hours?
> 
> Just wondering essentially when I would expect it to drop etc.


 Yeah but were you running 25 mg eod on 1 gram of test?

Don't overcomplicate, just start taking 25 mg EOD or x 3 per week and go from there.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Looks fine, just note that the damage we fear from AAS is something you will never see on bloodwork. Blood work is vastly overrated and has limited use in limiting the damage from AAS.


 Excellent posts as always, agree with your stance.

What can one do besides bloodwork? is it a case of just minimising damage control, maximising a healthy lifestyle & diet and just hoping for the best? it's crazy how so many get such reassurance from bloodwork and believe thrmselves all is fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Excellent posts as always, agree with your stance.
> 
> What can one do besides bloodwork? is it a case of just minimising damage control, maximising a healthy lifestyle & diet and just hoping for the best? it's crazy how so many get such reassurance from bloodwork and believe thrmselves all is fine.


 Year round cardio, stay under 15% body fat, avoid very high doses for very long periods of time.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> *1. Meriva Curcumin 1 gram daily*
> 
> 2. Pycnogenol 100-200 mg daily
> 
> 3. Glucosamine/Chondroitin 1,500/1000 mg (this one is hit or miss for some people/mixed results in studies)


 Using that for both my Ulnar Nerves, got it prescribed by a friend neurosurgeon and it works like a charm, but it's very expensive.

Doing barbell biceps curls inflamed my Ulnar Nervers.... maybe also the HGH


----------



## Simon90

Can insomnia caused by tren whilst in a defecit/cut increase chance of muscle loss? Or will the tren still preserve muscle mass even with lack of sleep and calorie deficit?

Anoter thing I wondered about is training after a sleeplees night, for example I have had maybe 3 hours sleep and have a night shift tonight and am going to train legs soon, is this going to be a counter productive session or aslong as it isnt all the time itll make little to no difference?

Cheers again


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Using that for both my Ulnar Nerves, got it prescribed by a friend neurosurgeon and it works like a charm, but it's very expensive.
> 
> Doing barbell biceps curls inflamed my Ulnar Nervers.... maybe also the HGH


 Jarrow brand is very fairly priced.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Can insomnia caused by tren whilst in a defecit/cut increase chance of muscle loss? Or will the tren still preserve muscle mass even with lack of sleep and calorie deficit?
> 
> Anoter thing I wondered about is training after a sleeplees night, for example I have had maybe 3 hours sleep and have a night shift tonight and am going to train legs soon, is this going to be a counter productive session or aslong as it isnt all the time itll make little to no difference?
> 
> Cheers again


 I wouldn't worry about it, but good sleep helps with recovery and training intensity.

I believe this is why a lot of pros keep tren dose to 300 mg max, the sides stay lower. The two worst being appetite reduction and insomnia for muscle growth.

In the long run it won't make a big difference, just keep track of your strength increases, if you are getting stronger and gaining weight slowly, you are building muscle.

Caloric surplus+AAS> poor sleep


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't worry about it, but good sleep helps with recovery and training intensity.
> 
> I believe this is why a lot of pros keep tren dose to 300 mg max, the sides stay lower. The two worst being appetite reduction and insomnia for muscle growth.
> 
> In the long run it won't make a big difference, just keep track of your strength increases, if you are getting stronger and gaining weight slowly, you are building muscle.
> 
> Caloric surplus+AAS> poor sleep


 How about when cutting in a harsh decefci (1000 cals) Would the risk of muscle loss be more likely, or again is it just aslong as it isnt a regular occurence


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> How about when cutting in a harsh decefci (1000 cals) Would the risk of muscle loss be more likely, or again is it just aslong as it isnt a regular occurence


 Not something to worry about, now, if you aren't getting stronger and your rest and nutrition is dialed in, you might want to cut back on tren in the future.


----------



## Pancake'

What would you suggest for conditioning hands & shins?

Will building stronger more muscular calves limit shin splints? or what would you suggest is the best way to minimise them?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What would you suggest for conditioning hands & shins?
> 
> Will building stronger more muscular calves limit shin splints? or what would you suggest is the best way to minimise them?


 Kicking a heavy bag/pads and rolling with a bottle or stick will make your shins resistant to pain.

For hands, some old school karate guys from Japan used to stab their hands into sand and rice and punch planks of wood nailed to a door.

Shin splints are usually avoided with lots of calf, ankle and shin stretching.


----------



## PSevens2017

Pancake' said:


> What would you suggest for conditioning hands & shins?
> 
> Will building stronger more muscular calves limit shin splints? or what would you suggest is the best way to minimise them?


 Re: what ElChapo said, this leads to Wolffs Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff's_law

That's how the old school karate guys used to break concrete blocks. Repetitive strikes to blocks to cause adaptation. Also, you'll see a number of Muay Thai fighters striking trees to strengthen tibia. Wolffs law


----------



## Pancake'

PSevens2017 said:


> Re: what ElChapo said, this leads to Wolffs Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff's_law
> 
> That's how the old school karate guys used to break concrete blocks. Repetitive strikes to blocks to cause adaptation. Also, you'll see a number of Muay Thai fighters striking trees to strengthen tibia. Wolffs law


 This was something I always used to debate as to whether exposing e.g knuckles to hard conditions or surfaces actually strengthened or weakened them.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> This was something I always used to debate as to whether exposing e.g knuckles to hard conditions or surfaces actually strengthened or weakened them.


 Stressing bone strengthens it as long as the damage does not outpace recovery.


----------



## SlinMeister

stewedw said:


> Two weeks into 900test e 400npp.
> 
> Thursday night, took a precautionary viagra and cialis as was on a rare night out. Five mins into sex it just goes soft. I think maybe it's the booze which wasn't that much in fairness. The following two days including today I've had a quick swatch of porn, almost zero reaction to it.
> 
> Any ideas? Npp is the obvious but I've never ever had probs like this, I even ran test tren npp together once and was fine. Libido can come and go but everything always works, especially if a half tab of cialis is thrown in.
> 
> I'm also aware the test could be bunk, but I've pals running it and they have no issue and I've low estrogen as there was a two week gap between 300mg of my old lab test e and the new one. Only running aromsin at 12.5 twice a week..
> 
> Cheers in advance


 Do bloods for e2 and prolactin and post them here.

Add a bit of Proviron and for sure it will help.


----------



## u2pride

@El Chapo How much body fat you would like to start EC stack or Yohimbine?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> How about when cutting in a harsh decefci (1000 cals) Would the risk of muscle loss be more likely, or again is it just aslong as it isnt a regular occurence


 You're over thinking this, the combination of AAS and lifting is not going to be blocked by poor sleep. You may not get ideal recovery from your workouts, but its not going to stop you from gaining muscle or melt the muscle off your bone.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @El Chapo How much body fat you would like to start EC stack or Yohimbine?


 Yohimbine is ideal at <13%, it's good at targetting stubborn fat by blocking alpha 2 adrenergic receptors.

EC stack i recommend at any body fat percentage.


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think would yield more muscle growth?

Hitting a muscle group twice a week but not progressing a couple main compound lifts.

or

Hitting a muscle group only once a week but progressing a couple of main compound lifts?


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> Yohimbine is ideal at <13%, it's good at targetting stubborn fat by blocking alpha 2 adrenergic receptors.
> 
> EC stack i recommend at any body fat percentage.


 Do you have any recommend to take EC stack (dosage, schedule, pre or post workout)?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Pancake' said:


> What do you think would yield more muscle growth?
> 
> Hitting a muscle group twice a week but not progressing a couple main compound lifts.
> 
> or
> 
> Hitting a muscle group only once a week but progressing a couple of main compound lifts?


 Short-term, the first. There are several signalling pathways for hypertrophy other than just mechanical tension.

Long-term, latter, by a country mile.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think would yield more muscle growth?
> 
> Hitting a muscle group twice a week but not progressing a couple main compound lifts.
> 
> or
> 
> Hitting a muscle group only once a week but progressing a couple of main compound lifts?


 Progression is the key, without progression, you will plateau.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> Do you have any recommend to take EC stack (dosage, schedule, pre or post workout)?


 20 mg with 100-200 mg caffeine in the morning.

Some people add another dose in the afternoon and evening, i never found that necessary in my experience.

It's an amazing pre-workout, so if you can time it before, it works extremely well.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Short-term, the first. There are several signalling pathways for hypertrophy other than just mechanical tension.
> 
> Long-term, latter, by a country mile.


 Yeah,

basically a lot of gym rats will build muscle taking lots of AAS and just pumping light weights for many sets and reps, but eventually plateau will happen. Progression in weight and reps will keep sending a signal to your muscles to adapt by getting bigger and stronger.

This is why Arnold, Franco, Ronnie, and Yates all incorporated heavy compound lifts. There is a place for pump and isolation work, but for ideal gains, you will use both styles of training.

@Pancake'


----------



## Big Ian

So I've read to only take yohimbine on an empty stomach and don't eat for a at least a couple of hours afterwards as eating close to a yo dose gives a higher than normal insulin spike and thus can totally negate the effects of the yo!

firstly, do you think this is true?

and secondly would using metformin or berberine negate the increase in insulin response from the yo plus food and therefore you could use it more than once first thing in the morning?


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> So I've read to only take yohimbine on an empty stomach and don't eat for a at least a couple of hours afterwards as eating close to a yo dose gives a higher than normal insulin spike and thus can totally negate the effects of the yo!
> 
> firstly, do you think this is true?
> 
> and secondly would using metformin or berberine negate the increase in insulin response from the yo plus food and therefore you could use it more than once first thing in the morning?


 Yeah, you want to train fasted on Yohimbine, it's ideal for practicioners of intermittent fasting as you can take it in the morning with coffee.

No, i wouldn't mess with metformin just for that benefit. Using yohimbine once a day is already very effective. It's not something i recommend dosing over 20 mg per daily.

Average dose is 10-20 mg.

http://yohimbine.emgsites.com/ There's a calculator here you can use to calculate dose based on weight

Very high doses will spike BP and can cause anxiety and palpitations. Yohimbine will also increase erection strength very effectively. .


----------



## Malin

Clen - is it actually worth it?

How much of a boost does say 80mcg per day give?


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Clen - is it actually worth it?
> 
> How much of a boost does say 80mcg per day give?


 I've seen 10% increase TDEE thrown around, but i don't have any hard date to prove that.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> I've seen 10% increase TDEE thrown around, but i don't have any hard date to prove that.


 So basically 30 minutes jogging beats it? Out of interest what TDEE increase is dnp.


----------



## godsgifttoearth

pma111 said:


> So basically 30 minutes jogging beats it? Out of interest what TDEE increase is dnp.


 its not quite that simple. it interacts with the Adrenergic pathway with causes fat mobilization and lipid metabolism in its own right, outside of any exercise.

DNP is basically a cellular poison that prevents your body from performing respiration correctly, creating a massive inefficiency, so churning through more energy sources. Id not f**k with DNP even if I was paid. its going to be way higher than clen but your body is going to oxidize any energy source to keep you alive.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> So basically 30 minutes jogging beats it? Out of interest what TDEE increase is dnp.


 Exactly this, cardio+deficit is extremely effective for fat loss with a strength training program to spare muscle tissue..

You can also do clen+cardio for additive effect.


----------



## nWo

godsgifttoearth said:


> DNP is basically a cellular poison


 So is alcohol - like DNP, it also causes mitochondrial and cellular oxidative stress. By your logic, you're going to tell me you've never had a drink, yes? As with alcohol, the poison is in the dose, it's perfectly possible to use it safely, and both chemicals can fall into the hands of irresponsible users and lead to death. Many prescribed drugs, such as opiates and NSAIDs, are technically toxic to the human body and can be deadly in high doses - suppose the only problem lies in the fact that DNP comes with no guidance for use and it only takes a small handful of DNP tablets to overdose, but with sensible use it's not really any more dangerous than any of the aforementioned drugs.

People speak as if the mechanism by which DNP works is inherently harmful, when in fact it is not at all when sensible doses are used. Excessive and sustained uncoupling can indeed result in cell damage, which is why it's advisable to use moderate doses and for short cycles. DNP studies have shown an increase of the lifespan of mice when used for 80+ days at low doses - starving the cells of energy leads to regeneration, an improvement in insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance and reduction in fatty deposits in the liver, and general neuroprotection which could be used to combat conditions such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's diseases, epilepsy and ischemic stroke. Doses of 1 mg/kg and 5 mg/kg once daily for 14 days were used in one study on mice and both found to be neuroprotective. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5337177/

Could be said that using the doses we use may come with long term effects we don't know about, but consider that it's been used in bodybuilding for decades now, if there was some sort of condition that develops in the long term we'd have seen it cropping up in aging bodybuilders by now. Guys who clearly used it but have never admitted it purely due to social responsibility are Lee Priest and Dorian Yates - both would get really sloppy in the off-season and then both would shape up extremely quickly considering how much weight they'd gained. In the initial studies of DNP in the 30s that saw it used as a prescribed weight loss drug, as per the article I linked above, doses of 3-5mg/kg in obese patients was considered a safe dose - "It was reported in 1933 by Cutting et al. that once daily oral doses of 3 or 5 mg/kg DNP increased the metabolic rate of overweight patients by 40%; all subjects lost weight (typically 2-3 pounds/week) with no evidence of adverse effects during a 3 month treatment period. Within one year of that report, DNP had been used by more than 100,000 patients in the United States. At that time only two deaths attributable to DNP had been reported, with both cases involving individuals who consumed over 10 times the recommended dose (i.e., more than 50 mg/kg)." It was discontinued due to these overdoses and the potential for cataracts - there's currently a slow-release version of DNP in the works so it can be brought back and safely used for its numerous health benefits. As bodybuilders, lifting enthusiasts or whatever else you like to call us, it's worth considering that any capsule we take may be overdosed, so perhaps it's best to err on the side of caution and go with the lower end of the safe dose to allow a large margin for error. As a 100kg male I always stick with the lower end at 300mg, and I've always argued a case for using DNP at doses as low as 100mg or even 50mg for good rates of fat loss with minimal side effects - you'd experience much fewer side effects and be in much less danger on a 100mg DNP cycle than you would a standard clen cycle, all the while experiencing a similar rate of fat loss.


----------



## nWo

pma111 said:


> Out of interest what TDEE increase is dnp.


 If you find an exact figure, you let me know :lol: (hint - you won't find it on the internet).

As per the study I linked above, doses of 3-5mg/kg in obese patients lead to increases of about 40% in their TDEE on average - this caused people to surmise that the metabolic boost from DNP was about 10-15% per 100mg of DNP. However, in all the research I've done, as well as speaking to others and of course using DNP myself on numerous occasions, I can safely say this figure is nonsense. It's not uncommon to see people losing 4-5lbs a week using doses of around 3-5mg/kg when eating in a modest caloric deficit, who weigh much less than an obese person. Their weight loss figures are also redundant as they evidently were chronic overeaters given that they were obese.

The study of course most likely wasn't wrong, it's just that the average 40% increase seen in the obese participants doesn't necessarily translate to leaner individuals. There's also individual tolerances to consider, but if two individuals tolerated DNP the same, and one weighed 50kg and the other 100kg, it's entirely possible that they'd both experience a somewhat similar TDEE boost despite their different initial TDEEs and therefore the actual percent increase in one's BMR could be significantly higher in leaner individuals. I can't see a similar study ever being done on people with normal levels of bodyfat as there's no call for it in the medical field, but from what I've seen, a 40% TDEE boost from a 400mg dose just seems totally wrong. The study should have noted the actual figures instead of the percentages - so, for example, if an obese person has a TDEE of 4000 calories, with a 40% increase that would have been an increase of 1600 calories on a dose of about 400mg, which in a person eating at TDEE means a loss of 3-4lbs a week in theory.


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> If you find an exact figure, you let me know :lol: (hint - you won't find it on the internet).
> 
> As per the study I linked above, doses of 3-5mg/kg in obese patients lead to increases of about 40% in their TDEE on average - this caused people to surmise that the metabolic boost from DNP was about 10-15% per 100mg of DNP. However, in all the research I've done, as well as speaking to others and of course using DNP myself on numerous occasions, I can safely say this figure is nonsense. It's not uncommon to see people losing 4-5lbs a week using doses of around 3-5mg/kg when eating in a modest caloric deficit, who weigh much less than an obese person.
> 
> The study of course most likely wasn't wrong, it's just that the average 40% increase seen in the obese participants doesn't necessarily translate to leaner individuals. There's also individual tolerances to consider, but if two individuals tolerated DNP the same, and one weighed 50kg and the other 100kg, it's entirely possible that they'd both experience a somewhat similar TDEE boost despite their different initial TDEEs and therefore the actual percent increase in one's BMR could be significantly higher in leaner individuals. I can't see a similar study ever being done on people with normal levels of bodyfat as there's no call for it in the medical field, but from what I've seen, a 40% TDEE boost from a 400mg dose just seems totally wrong.


 Firstly, thanks for the write up. Interesting.

From your experience, what are the "musts" and "must nots" when using DNP (assume v low dose, i.e., 50-100mg a day), and further, would those lists vary at all if you upped that to 200-300mg/day?

Cheers


----------



## nWo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Firstly, thanks for the write up. Interesting.
> 
> From your experience, what are the "musts" and "must nots" when using DNP (assume v low dose, i.e., 50-100mg a day), and further, would those lists vary at all if you upped that to 200-300mg/day?
> 
> Cheers


 I've done a 100mg cycle and honestly, with a dose that low you can mostly just take the tab and then forget about it other than being slightly more tired and warm than usual. I didn't take any supplements that I don't normally take. Lost 4lbs in 3 weeks eating at maintenance, more like a smidge over maintenance tbh. Whereas, on 200-300 I'd recommend potassium at least, other options include R-ALA, magnesium, vit C and E, taurine and have antihistamines on hand. I use 300mg of DNP on a cruise when I'm deloading, cause I don't have the energy to lift heavy on it, whereas on 100 I could train to an acceptable standard, though obviously not 100%.


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> I've done a 100mg cycle and honestly, with a dose that low you can mostly just take the tab and then forget about it other than being slightly more tired and warm than usual. I didn't take any supplements that I don't normally take. Lost 4lbs in 3 weeks eating at maintenance, more like a smidge over maintenance tbh. Whereas, on 200-300 I'd recommend potassium at least, other options include R-ALA, magnesium, vit C and E, taurine and have antihistamines on hand. I use 300mg of DNP on a cruise when I'm deloading, cause I don't have the energy to lift heavy on it, whereas on 100 I could train to an acceptable standard, though obviously not 100%.


 Interesting and useful! Were you able to do cardio on it, or was that simply "too hot"? Also, did you alter your macros (I have read stuff about not eating carbs, and or eating carbs!?)


----------



## nWo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Interesting and useful! Were you able to do cardio on it, or was that simply "too hot"? Also, did you alter your macros (I have read stuff about not eating carbs, and or eating carbs!?)


 On 100mg cardio is definitely on the cards, I liken the heat increase to being on clen or high doses of T3, noticeable but not extreme in any sense. On 300mg, I don't do cardio at all, too hot and tired for that, I just eat at maintenance and let the DNP do its work and I can lose 10-15lbs on a 2 week cycle. 300 is the most I'd ever take personally.


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> On 100mg cardio is definitely on the cards, I liken the heat increase to being on clen or high doses of T3, noticeable but not extreme in any sense. On 300mg, I don't do cardio at all, too hot and tired for that, I just eat at maintenance and let the DNP do its work and I can lose 10-15lbs on a 2 week cycle. 300 is the most I'd ever take personally.


 If someone is (me) already a legit 11-12% BF, is there any point if the goal is to get down to say, 7-8%? I have read a lot of reports about DNP being less effective the leaner you are.

Also, out of sheer interest, would you stack it with clen, or would that be a recipe for a world of pain? LOL


----------



## nWo

arbffgadm100 said:


> If someone is (me) already a legit 11-12% BF, is there any point if the goal is to get down to say, 7-8%? I have read a lot of reports about DNP being less effective the leaner you are.
> 
> Also, out of sheer interest, would you stack it with clen, or would that be a recipe for a world of pain? LOL


 I tend to use it when I'm hovering around 12-13% to get me down to 8-9% in a couple of weeks. Doing that 2-3 times a year on a cruise helps me stay in shape year-round while getting bigger each year :thumbup1:

I don't use clen so can't comment personally, some people use it though to give them a bit more energy and suppress their appetite a little.


----------



## stewedw

I ran 250mg tm dnp for seven days to see how I reacted, then 10 days more on 500mg.

Cardio dally for me but sscv 30 mins first thing as I like the routine of it when dieting regardless of using dnp etc.

22lbs dropped and only regained 2-4lbs on water. Fantastic med but imo of its used to drop 2lbs a week like some do, then just eat right and cardio. As above, the leaner you get, the more thought you have to put into losing the last few lbs. 15% down to 10%is straightforward, anything afterwards probably needs a different approach as per @nWo said.

For what it's work, my gf did the same batch as me first time round. 10kbs dropped in 14 days straight of 250mg per day. So it certainly shines if you are carrying a bit more. I've a single pack of tm stuff left for after this bulk.


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> On 100mg cardio is definitely on the cards, I liken the heat increase to being on clen or high doses of T3, noticeable but not extreme in any sense. On 300mg, I don't do cardio at all, too hot and tired for that, I just eat at maintenance and let the DNP do its work and I can lose 10-15lbs on a 2 week cycle. 300 is the most I'd ever take personally.


 Awesome.

Final Q: what dose would you start at and would you tirarte it up?

I'm interested to experience it tbh.


----------



## nWo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Final Q: what dose would you start at and would you tirarte it up?
> 
> I'm interested to experience it tbh.


 Typical starting dose is 200mg, a lot of people do ramp up after day 4 but I always just say run the cycle the same dose all the way through and if you feel like you could run more next time, then do it. So just running 200mg throughout is a good safe bet that should yield solid results.


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> Typical starting dose is 200mg, a lot of people do ramp up after day 4 but I always just say run the cycle the same dose all the way through and if you feel like you could run more next time, then do it. So just running 200mg throughout is a good safe bet that should yield solid results.


 Thanks man. I'm going to give this a shot and see if I can get to 8% in 2-3 weeks.

Would you say I risk muscle loss if in a deep deficit or no more so than normal? I'm on 200/200 test and deca, and training.

I'm keen to try clen as well so I might do 80 clen and 100 DNP and see what synergy that gives. Daily cardio and lifting 4-5x a week.


----------



## nWo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks man. I'm going to give this a shot and see if I can get to 8% in 2-3 weeks.
> 
> Would you say I risk muscle loss if in a deep deficit or no more so than normal? I'm on 200/200 test and deca, and training.
> 
> I'm keen to try clen as well so I might do 80 clen and 100 DNP and see what synergy that gives. Daily cardio and lifting 4-5x a week.


 No more so than normal, if anything DNP has been shown to have muscle sparing properties of its own and I don't seem to have lost any notable amount of muscle once the flatness goes away.

If you've never tried either then you might be better off not trying it with clen yet mate if you don't know how you're gonna react to either. A lot of people don't tolerate clen very well and it'd at least by nice to know what's causing any issues if you don't react well to either compound. Maybe some ECA or just caffeine if you have trouble getting ephedrine.


----------



## Ferenor

Is it okay to take clenbuterol fasted or after a meal?


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> No more so than normal, if anything DNP has been shown to have muscle sparing properties of its own and I don't seem to have lost any notable amount of muscle once the flatness goes away.
> 
> If you've never tried either then you might be better off not trying it with clen yet mate if you don't know how you're gonna react to either. A lot of people don't tolerate clen very well and it'd at least by nice to know what's causing any issues if you don't react well to either compound. Maybe some ECA or just caffeine if you have trouble getting ephedrine.


 Will give the DNP a shot today at 100mg. I'm only really planning run it for a week, maybe two, just as a test. Fairly deep deficit.

I've had some 100s (TM) for about a year and never touched them. I'll keep the deficit and some daily cardio in, and lift lower volume and heavy to keep the stimulus for muscle retention as high as possible.

I take it you don't use T3 with it or anything? I've seen that recommended several times.

I'll keep you posted!

Thanks again.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Do you think L-theanine can counter the anxiety/jittery/crash from EC use?

I used to love EC stack but it increased my anxiety and I got a crash at night making me really tense and irritable.

it's been 2 years I haven't touched it and I'm less tense/anxious then before but since I'm taking l-theanine now and Id like to get a good pre workout I was thinking of taking 8mg eph/200mg caff/300mg l theanine .


----------



## nWo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Will give the DNP a shot today at 100mg. I'm only really planning run it for a week, maybe two, just as a test. Fairly deep deficit.
> 
> I've had some 100s (TM) for about a year and never touched them. I'll keep the deficit and some daily cardio in, and lift lower volume and heavy to keep the stimulus for muscle retention as high as possible.
> 
> I take it you don't use T3 with it or anything? I've seen that recommended several times.
> 
> I'll keep you posted!
> 
> Thanks again.


 T3 is generally a good idea as DNP can suppress your output. If you're only running it for a week at 100mg though it's probably not worth it.

Keep us posted and let us know how you got on at the end mate :thumbup1:


----------



## arbffgadm100

nWo said:


> T3 is generally a good idea as DNP can suppress your output. If you're only running it for a week at 100mg though it's probably not worth it.
> 
> Keep us posted and let us know how you got on at the end mate :thumbup1:


 I will mate.

I have some T3 (again never used before) from when I bought the DNP.

If it's even slightly worth it I'll throw it in. 25mcg enough? Presumably no taper up or down required at that dose?


----------



## ElChapo

nWo said:


> Typical starting dose is 200mg, a lot of people do ramp up after day 4 but I always just say run the cycle the same dose all the way through and if you feel like you could run more next time, then do it. So just running 200mg throughout is a good safe bet that should yield solid results.


 I also recommend the 200-300 mg range. You get the best results while minimizing sides, and from there you let caloric deficit and light activity do the rest. (walking or light jog)

25 mcg T3 will replace what you are missing, however, the effect would be negligible in terms of fat loss in my experience.

I have found T3 useful more than anything for keeping energy levels up on a prolonged or significantly high caloric deficit. 

@arbffgadm100

*

*


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> Is it okay to take clenbuterol fasted or after a meal?


 Any time you want. When you are fasted, you produce more catecholamines i.e. adrenaline/noradrenaline which force fat cells to release fat. Technically, the effect of stimulants is enhanced during a fast, but it's not something to obsess over. If it's more convenient for you to have it with a meal, the difference will be negligible in the long run and your deficit will do 90% of the work.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> I also recommend the 200-300 mg range. You get the best results while minimizing sides, and from there you let caloric deficit and light activity do the rest. (walking or light jog)
> 
> 25 mcg T3 will replace what you are missing, however, the effect would be negligible in terms of fat loss in my experience.
> 
> I have found T3 useful more than anything for keeping energy levels up on a prolonged or significantly high caloric deficit.
> 
> @arbffgadm100
> 
> *
> 
> *


 Awesome, thanks.

I've gone in with 100mg to start with. I love to lift and do regular cardio so if I do go up from here, it will be low and slow!

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks man. I'm going to give this a shot and see if I can get to 8% in 2-3 weeks.
> 
> Would you say I risk muscle loss if in a deep deficit or no more so than normal? I'm on 200/200 test and deca, and training.
> 
> I'm keen to try clen as well so I might do 80 clen and 100 DNP and see what synergy that gives. Daily cardio and lifting 4-5x a week.


 Most studies showing muscle loss from caloric deficits never had research subjects doing strength training, eating enough protein and taking AAS. You will be fine.

A lot of people think they lose muscle during a cut, but most of the time it's flatness from low carb intake. T3 can cause the same effect by increasing glycogen turnover in the muscles.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Most studies showing muscle loss from caloric deficits never had research subjects doing strength training, eating enough protein and taking AAS. You will be fine.
> 
> A lot of people think they lose muscle during a cut, but most of the time it's flatness from low carb intake. T3 can cause the same effect by increasing glycogen turnover in the muscles.


 Agree totally. Just wasn't sure about DNP. From what I understand about the de coupling effect (which is where the energy inefficiency and massive spike in super-reactive oxygen species creation comes from) if I am in a significant deficit there is some amount of energy that will come from protein turnover. Quite how (in)significant that is wasn't;t something I knew about. Thanks for clearing it up! I'm flat as a pancake anyway right now, so doesn't matter, lol.


----------



## Simon90

How bad is eating 4 Tins Tuna a day? People talk about mercury poisoning is it true


----------



## arbffgadm100

Day 2 of DNP @ 100mg.

Yesterday I drank something like 5 litres of water and made sure my diet was 100% perfect (and there was a deficit). All my supps are on point.

Lifting was a bit more laboured than normal, but otherwise I wouldn't have known I was on.

The night was warmer than usual, but the weather has been warmer too, somewhat.

I woke up to my surprise, 0.6kg heavier, lol. I put this down to water and electrolyte fluctuations, and maybe some cellular swelling from training.

Today I am not training (rest), and will instead try to get in 20k steps. Diet will be perfect once again. I do have slight headache (very unlike me), but we'll see how long that takes to pass.

@nWo


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> How bad is eating 4 Tins Tuna a day? People talk about mercury poisoning is it true


 General consensus is that it's not an issue. I wouldn't worry about it, just check your mercury levels one time.


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> General consensus is that it's not an issue. I wouldn't worry about it, just check your mercury levels one time.


 Whilst we are on the subject, what about arsenic in rice? I cannot be bothered to rince it when cooked. I only eat white basmati, two or three times a week. Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> Whilst we are on the subject, what about arsenic in rice? I cannot be bothered to rince it when cooked. I only eat white basmati, two or three times a week. Thanks


 I'm pretty sure that's bullshit. These quacks are always peddling some non-sense.


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapoIf you were bulking for an extended period, would swapping meds make sense or just vary the dose?

Ie 750tesst 400npp for 6 months versus.

3months above then test, eq, mast etxc

Providing you weren't a drinker or reccy drug taker are extended cycles very bad?

A pals getting back into the gym after a layoff, lost a lot of muscle but had been six months on trt and planned to just bulk the tedt of the year. His goto was test deca oxys. So he was gonna just run the test and deca for six months and cycle oxys or Winstrol six weeks on six weeks off for the term. I've only very done 14 weeks of high test years ago as a long cycle, everything else has been short so just wondered.

Thanks


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo

In your opinion what causes GH gut? Is it really organ growth? Slin abuse or a combo?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapoIf you were bulking for an extended period, would swapping meds make sense or just vary the dose?
> 
> Ie 750tesst 400npp for 6 months versus.
> 
> 3months above then test, eq, mast etxc
> 
> Providing you weren't a drinker or reccy drug taker are extended cycles very bad?
> 
> A pals getting back into the gym after a layoff, lost a lot of muscle but had been six months on trt and planned to just bulk the tedt of the year. His goto was test deca oxys. So he was gonna just run the test and deca for six months and cycle oxys or Winstrol six weeks on six weeks off for the term. I've only very done 14 weeks of high test years ago as a long cycle, everything else has been short so just wondered.
> 
> Thanks


 The best way to keep pushing the gains is to keep the calories in a surplus and increase reps and/or weight on all your movements with perfect form. These two things will drive 90% of your growth.

AAS just enable you to push the envelope in terms of genetic limitations and increased recovery.

Extended cycles being bad is a relative thing. If Hematocrit, BP, E2 are elevated for extended amounts of time and lipid ratio being suboptimal, this will increase calcification of the arteries which tends to be semi-permanent and can cause structural changes in the heart that impair it's function (also semi-permanent/reversible). This is further compounded by the harshness of the cycle (tren vs test) and genetics ( predisposition to heart disease, stroke, etc )

The best thing anyone can do is keep some light cardio through the year whether you are bulking or cutting, make sure BP never goes over 140/90 mmhg, and control E2 levels.

Generally, giving your body a break at cruise doses+keeping health parameters in check+cardio is the best advice.


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> In your opinion what causes GH gut? Is it really organ growth? Slin abuse or a combo?


 I think it may be a combo of slin/GH increasing visceral fat+organ growth+ tons of food distending the stomach and abdominal muscles.


----------



## pma111

Does a large amount of protein e.g. 200 grams + over many years have any negative impact on the body? Or is there a top end when it becomes potentially dangerous?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Does a large amount of protein e.g. 200 grams + over many years have any negative impact on the body? Or is there a top end when it becomes potentially dangerous?


 Your body will process excess protein, break it down into glucose and converts it to fat for storage when in caloric surplus.

There's no real danger unless you have impaired kidney function.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

If I take 2 iu of HGH twice a week for some months , will it increase bone/tendon growth?

For exemple , can it make my wrist/angle thicker?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> If I take 2 iu of HGH twice a week for some months , will it increase bone/tendon growth?
> 
> For exemple , can it make my wrist/angle thicker?


 That's too little. 7 IU GH per week is the minimum replacement dosage.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> That's too little. 7 IU GH per week is the minimum replacement dosage.


 Ok , so 3 x 2-3 IU / week ; could it increase bone/tendon growth in the wrist/ankle ?

For the sources , I guess we can only find Chinese HGH but are most of them sold on sites around legit ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would 12.5mg Tbol for weeks yield any benefits?

I was using 50mg for some weeks but I'm starting to feel lethargic , high BP so I'm thinking of lowering to 12.5mg which is really low dose but it can have some benefits on SHBG and glycogen retention ?


----------



## DORIAN

Hi mate sorry to bother you, any advice on a rotar cuff injury, peptides, npp, training, best exercises, physio etc, think it took me far to long last time? Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Ok , so 3 x 2-3 IU / week ; could it increase bone/tendon growth in the wrist/ankle ?
> 
> For the sources , I guess we can only find Chinese HGH but are most of them sold on sites around legit ?


 You would need to put yourself in the supraphysiological range, so likely requirement of 3 IU x 7 days a week.

Eh, lots of fake s**t out there. GH isn't worth the money for most people.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would 12.5mg Tbol for weeks yield any benefits?
> 
> I was using 50mg for some weeks but I'm starting to feel lethargic , high BP so I'm thinking of lowering to 12.5mg which is really low dose but it can have some benefits on SHBG and glycogen retention ?


 Possibly, oral can cause fatigue but they are very potent, cheap and kick in fast. Side effects are part of this game, you just need to deal with it.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hi mate sorry to bother you, any advice on a rotar cuff injury, peptides, npp, training, best exercises, physio etc, think it took me far to long last time? Many thanks


 Make sure you keep your rear delts as strong as your front delts. (Strict rows and face pulls are best) The imbalance caused by too much pressing/benching causes posture issues and increased risk of injury and impingement.

Some research shows a positive effect from GH and NPP.

That's my 2 cents


----------



## Pancake'

How do you like to build calves elchapo?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> How do you like to build calves elchapo?


 Both parts of the calf muscle have fast and slow twitch muscle fiber.

High volume calf raises with a 2-3 second hold at the top works very well. Cardio can build them up a bit too sometimes.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@El Chapowhat is the best peptide for a lean bulk, to keep unwanted fat gains off in offseason, maybe allowing to be a bit more sloppy than a prep diet yet still reap the rewards of higher calorie muscle growth ... something along the lines of say gh ? was thinking something like ghrp2 ?


----------



## Simon90

Hya mate what would be differences between 50 mg of oral winstrol and 100mg oral winstrol? Except from increased sides. Looking to use it for the last 4 weeks off my cut


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Make sure you keep your rear delts as strong as your front delts. (Strict rows and face pulls are best) The imbalance caused by too much pressing/benching causes posture issues and increased risk of injury and impingement.
> 
> Some research shows a positive effect from GH and NPP.
> 
> That's my 2 cents


 MK2866 osterine, any knowledge on this mate for muscle/tendon repair, and at what dose, also is it suppressive? Thanks mate


----------



## Will2309

@El Chapo

Been on testosterone E now for 18months roughly. Highest dose 450mg for a few months, I was on 300mg for 4 months last summer and the rest of the time 150mg. So nothing crazy.

I have been in hcg through out, in your opinion what are the chances of recovery.

Iam 44 this year.

Thanks


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo could you elaborate on the mechanisms which seperates hgh in healing effectiveness from aas?

Is It the proliferation, stem cell activation and collagen production which hgh offers?

Intuitevely one would think that the enhanced recovery/increased mps from aas could also translate to injury healing, at least for muscles.

But from what I understand injury healing is not in the making of aas compounds


----------



## Simon90

Yohimbine. Does it make a difference split ing dose throughout day or can it be taken all in the morning before fasted training. Also I am told to not to use around carbs so if I took it fasted and ate my postworkout carbs meal around 2-2amd half hours later after taking is that okay


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hya mate what would be differences between 50 mg of oral winstrol and 100mg oral winstrol? Except from increased sides. Looking to use it for the last 4 weeks off my cut


 You will get more strength and gains from 100 mg. I recommend it for advanced lifters/body builders.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> MK2866 osterine, any knowledge on this mate for muscle/tendon repair, and at what dose, also is it suppressive? Thanks mate


 Some research shows potential benefit, no experience with it myself.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Been on testosterone E now for 18months roughly. Highest dose 450mg for a few months, I was on 300mg for 4 months last summer and the rest of the time 150mg. So nothing crazy.
> 
> I have been in hcg through out, in your opinion what are the chances of recovery.
> 
> Iam 44 this year.
> 
> Thanks


 Nobody can say, testosterone is not crazy suppressive to fertility and testosterone like nandrolone and trenbolone.

Running HCG greatly increases your chances. I always recommend 1,000-1,500 HCG per week. If your balls haven't shrunk much if at all, you have a better chance.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo could you elaborate on the mechanisms which seperates hgh in healing effectiveness from aas?
> 
> Is It the proliferation, stem cell activation and collagen production which hgh offers?
> 
> Intuitevely one would think that the enhanced recovery/increased mps from aas could also translate to injury healing, at least for muscles.
> 
> But from what I understand injury healing is not in the making of aas compounds


 GH directly increases IGF-1 which increases tissue recovery/turn over. AAS can increase igf-1 indirectly and other things like protein synthesis, nitrogen retention, mTOR, etc.

GH also increase T4 to T3 conversion (thyroid hormone), T3 has been linked to faster wound healing.

In youth, wound healing and risk of injury is lower because GH, testosterone and T3 levels are at their highest levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Yohimbine. Does it make a difference split ing dose throughout day or can it be taken all in the morning before fasted training. Also I am told to not to use around carbs so if I took it fasted and ate my postworkout carbs meal around 2-2amd half hours later after taking is that okay


 I recommend all at once in the morning. It has metabolites that makes it's effects last longer than the half-life would have you think.

Yeah, it's best used in the morning right before fasted training or cardio. You can eat right after training.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> You will get more strength and gains from 100 mg. I recommend it for advanced lifters/body builders.


 Mate, what's the max time you'd recommend on Winstrol at 100mg if running test and tren (300/600mg). Thanks


----------



## Matt6210

@El Chapo what's folic actually used for/do mate?

is there a need to take extra if you haven't got low levels of it?

cheers


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> GH directly increases IGF-1 which increases tissue recovery/turn over. AAS can increase igf-1 indirectly and other things like protein synthesis, nitrogen retention, mTOR, etc.
> 
> GH also increase T4 to T3 conversion (thyroid hormone), T3 has been linked to faster wound healing.
> 
> In youth, wound healing and risk of injury is lower because GH, testosterone and T3 levels are at their highest levels.


 If I hear you correct, aas also has injury healing / preventive qualities?

Edit: in retrospect i guess what im getting at is if adding a steroid like test and / or deca could assist specifically for a muscle injury.

I have had a hard time finding a conclusive answer (except very loose bro science) as to whether or not AAS could aid (muscle injury).

I have never done steroids but considered it specifically for injury, but because of the inconclusiveness I have steered clear and just stuck to GH peptides.... what do you think?


----------



## Popeye66

@El Chapo What dosage would you recommend for Anavar? And for how many weeks?

thanks


----------



## capo

ElChapo said:


> I recommend all at once in the morning. It has metabolites that makes it's effects last longer than the half-life would have you think.
> 
> Yeah, it's best used in the morning right before fasted training or cardio. You can eat right after training.


 How long can yohimbine be ran for and I also read about yohimbine only works in the absence of insulin would there be any benefits of staying fasted post workout it or is it negligible .

cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> Mate, what's the max time you'd recommend on Winstrol at 100mg if running test and tren (300/600mg). Thanks


 12 weeks, TUDCA/NAC for extra insurance if you want. (250/1000 mg respectively)


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> @El Chapo what's folic actually used for/do mate?
> 
> is there a need to take extra if you haven't got low levels of it?
> 
> cheers


 Deficiency can lead to a certain type of anemia.

It's very important for pregnant women as a deficiency can lead to neurological deficits and spina bifida/malformations.

Extra does nothing.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> If I hear you correct, aas also has injury healing / preventive qualities?
> 
> Edit: in retrospect i guess what im getting at is if adding a steroid like test and / or deca could assist specifically for a muscle injury.
> 
> I have had a hard time finding a conclusive answer (except very loose bro science) as to whether or not AAS could aid (muscle injury).
> 
> I have never done steroids but considered it specifically for injury, but because of the inconclusiveness I have steered clear and just stuck to GH peptides.... what do you think?


 I would never take AAS for injury recovery, it can help directly/indirectly but you risk shutting down your endogenous testosterone production.


----------



## ElChapo

Popeye66 said:


> @El Chapo What dosage would you recommend for Anavar? And for how many weeks?
> 
> thanks


 50-100 mg 8-12 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> How long can yohimbine be ran for and I also read about yohimbine only works in the absence of insulin would there be any benefits of staying fasted post workout it or is it negligible .
> 
> cheers


 You can eat immediately post-workout, the difference will be negligible.

You can run yohimbine as long as you like.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I would never take AAS for injury recovery, it can help directly/indirectly but you risk shutting down your endogenous testosterone production.


 I would of course read up on it a lot, especially pct, but sounds like its not worth the risk?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I would of course read up on it a lot, especially pct, but sounds like its not worth the risk?


 Not worth it at all, what's the injury in question?


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Can you take a look at my out of range bloods and advise on what to do to get them better, im currently 78kg, height 5ft 7cm. I train 5x per week and im currently running in week 12 cruise 150mg test e with 0.25adex after jab on a Monday. I've added in hcg at the time of these bloods also at 500iu a week. I supplement with omega fish oils caps, zinc, magnesium, vit d at 2000iu and 2.5mg cialis everyday.

I understand FSH and lh are low due to shutdown and im booked in to donate blood next week to help with the RBC any extra advice on this be appreciated

Should i up my adex dose another 0.25 later in the week to lower the e2 as these bloods were taken 2 days before next jab. Thank you

View attachment 170299


View attachment 170303


----------



## Whoremoan1

@El Chapowhat is the best peptide for a lean bulk, to keep unwanted fat gains off in offseason, maybe allowing to be a bit more sloppy than a prep diet yet still reap the rewards of higher calorie muscle growth ... something along the lines of say gh and not clen/t3 which would be too overkill? was thinking something like ghrp2 ?


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo

currently on adex at 0.5mg EOD have been unable to source further so have some pharma aromasin arriving.

do I dose this similar to arimidex Or is it stronger in it effect to reduce estrogen than adex is.

ie; 12.5mg aromasin EOD or mon/wed/Friday?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Can you take a look at my out of range bloods and advise on what to do to get them better, im currently 78kg, height 5ft 7cm. I train 5x per week and im currently running in week 12 cruise 150mg test e with 0.25adex after jab on a Monday. I've added in hcg at the time of these bloods also at 500iu a week. I supplement with omega fish oils caps, zinc, magnesium, vit d at 2000iu and 2.5mg cialis everyday.
> 
> I understand FSH and lh are low due to shutdown and im booked in to donate blood next week to help with the RBC any extra advice on this be appreciated
> 
> Should i up my adex dose another 0.25 later in the week to lower the e2 as these bloods were taken 2 days before next jab. Thank you
> 
> View attachment 170299
> 
> 
> View attachment 170303


 Bump adex to .5 mg per week. Try to get to 154 pmol/L or lower.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @El Chapowhat is the best peptide for a lean bulk, to keep unwanted fat gains off in offseason, maybe allowing to be a bit more sloppy than a prep diet yet still reap the rewards of higher calorie muscle growth ... something along the lines of say gh and not clen/t3 which would be too overkill? was thinking something like ghrp2 ?


 If you want to keep fat gains off, you need to keep your surplus sensible, don't go over 500 calories. 250-500 is ideal for a surplus. GH/T3 help people stay leaner on a surplus.

I'm not big into the peptides. AAS and the other ancillaries do everything you need.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> currently on adex at 0.5mg EOD have been unable to source further so have some pharma aromasin arriving.
> 
> do I dose this similar to arimidex Or is it stronger in it effect to reduce estrogen than adex is.
> 
> ie; 12.5mg aromasin EOD or mon/wed/Friday?


 12.5 mg EOD


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> You will get more strength and gains from 100 mg. I recommend it for advanced lifters/body builders.


 Whilst in a cut would the higher dose bring more hardness, dryness and vascilarity compared too 50? Ths is my aim for using it more so than strength

Also would the difference in dose make a bigger impact on lipids or would it be small

Thanks alot


----------



## Jordan08

Hello @ElChapo

What are your views on an individual for whom the HCT is always on higher end and that without any history of AAS usage. HCT level stays around 52% when the lab range given is 42-52.

Is there any thing to worry about?. or it;s fine. Or, anything you would suggest to keep them on a lower side?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Bump adex to .5 mg per week. Try to get to 154 pmol/L or lower.


 Will do, thank you, What would you advice on the RBC, hdl, urea and alt, how would you recommend to get those back in range, im giving blood next week to help lower RBC, but about hdl and alt values? Also can you advise on the creatine as that's way out of range? Cheers mate.


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo Is there any benefit to IGF lr3 or des ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Benefits of Naringin in caps , other then for hematocrit lowering properties for bodybuilding/powerlifting ?


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo.

If you had to run a bulking cycle without Deca/NPP or Tren, what would be the best cycle?

Thanks


----------



## Pancake'

@ElChapo Do you have any experience with modafinil and do you rate it?


----------



## capo

@ElChapo Can't get 2% Nizoral anymore but have been recommended Pura d'or Argan Oil (DHT Blocking Shampoo) instead ,will this work?

Thanks


----------



## Simon90

@El Chapo does this starvation mode apply to users aswell? How long do you think you can get away with running steep defecit 1500cals below maintenance with a weekly refeed whilst on gear? But without the use of T3 clen etc


----------



## pma111

How does pine bark help the cardio vascular system?


----------



## stewedw

capo said:


> @ElChapo Can't get 2% Nizoral anymore but have been recommended Pura d'or Argan Oil (DHT Blocking Shampoo) instead ,will this work?
> 
> Thanks


 Asda sell it and ebay mate.


----------



## smiddy444

@ElChapo Any chance you could let me know if this albumin level is OK to start cycling on again?

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/330415-bloods-good-to-go-after-prostitis-and-a-bad-tooth-infection/?do=embed

Can re-post the picture of the blood test if needed.

EDIT - Just noticed it comes up in the thumbnail once I pasted the link. To note - my GP doesn't seem overly concerned and I did have a nasty tooth infection at the time.

The prostitis seems to have gone finally btw.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Whilst in a cut would the higher dose bring more hardness, dryness and vascilarity compared too 50? Ths is my aim for using it more so than strength
> 
> Also would the difference in dose make a bigger impact on lipids or would it be small
> 
> Thanks alot


 Yes to everything. More strength, more dryness/vascularity/pump, harsher on lipids and liver.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> What are your views on an individual for whom the HCT is always on higher end and that without any history of AAS usage. HCT level stays around 52% when the lab range given is 42-52.
> 
> Is there any thing to worry about?. or it;s fine. Or, anything you would suggest to keep them on a lower side?


 I would not worry as long as 52% is the maximum. You could always donate which will drop you down to 2-3 points.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Will do, thank you, What would you advice on the RBC, hdl, urea and alt, how would you recommend to get those back in range, im giving blood next week to help lower RBC, but about hdl and alt values? Also can you advise on the creatine as that's way out of range? Cheers mate.


 1 blood donation will bring RBC back in range and HCT should drop to 51-52%. You might have to donate twice to get the HCT under 50% although i would not worry if you can keep it under 52%.

UREA is normal for someone who eats a lot of protein and has more muscle than average, this is a metabolic byproduct of muscle metabolism like creatinine. Make sure you are hydrated as this can make it come out higher in blood work since urine will be more concentrated via dehydration.

ALT i wouldn't worry about that level. It could just be from training or the adex. It's not a worrisome level. Muscle damage from lifting can elevate those enzymes.

HDL will come up if you regularly do cardio and drink a glass (3-4 oz) of red wine a day. Even if HDL is suboptimal, regular cardio will protect your heart and vascular system from calcification, narrowing of the arteries, heart failure, stroke, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo Is there any benefit to IGF lr3 or des ?


 Very interesting compound, if you can source it legit should work for wound healing and recovery, similar to GH but faster acting. Hard to source from what i hear though.

I think it would be easier and more reliable to just blast good generic GH or pharma instead.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Benefits of Naringin in caps , other then for hematocrit lowering properties for bodybuilding/powerlifting ?


 I would avoid it, it blocks liver enzymes (CYP3A4 and CYP1A2) that break down drugs and toxins so it can make your body have a tougher time at controlling it. Not worth the HCT lowering effect when donation works better and also benefits someone who needs the blood.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo.
> 
> If you had to run a bulking cycle without Deca/NPP or Tren, what would be the best cycle?
> 
> Thanks


 That's easy. Test p 600 mg-1 gram/ 50-100 mg winstrol daily. 12-16 weeks with TUDCA/NAC. 300-500 calorie surplus.

Dose will vary depending on experience level and level of development. A great beginner cycle is 300 mg test p + 50 mg winstrol daily (My personal recommendation for beginners). Will keep you dry, hard and strong. No bloat issues like Test E or cyp. You can inject test P x 2 a week or MWF.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> @ElChapo Do you have any experience with modafinil and do you rate it?


 It works very well with few sides and doesnt build too bad a tolerance. Depends on your genetics if you respond well too it.

Those with overactive catechol-o-methyltransferase AKA COMT enzyme AKA Warrior gene respond very well to it. These people are much lower levels of dopamine in the brain, so modafanil addresses this deficiency well.

You can read more about this gene here, it's very interesting. Affects your personality, pain tolerance, stress tolerance, etc :

https://selfhacked.com/blog/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo Can't get 2% Nizoral anymore but have been recommended Pura d'or Argan Oil (DHT Blocking Shampoo) instead ,will this work?
> 
> Thanks


 Eh, Nizoral is proven to work and is as effective as Monoxadil/Rogaine. Idk about those other two, i would not put any stock in it.

Check out indian online pharma, they can carry it. You can also tell your doctor that you have bad dandruff and want a prescription.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> @El Chapo does this starvation mode apply to users aswell? How long do you think you can get away with running steep defecit 1500cals below maintenance with a weekly refeed whilst on gear? But without the use of T3 clen etc


 Forever, metabolic slowdown will never completely stop fat loss, just slow it down.

1,000 is the max deficit i would go and its not for evryone.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> How does pine bark help the cardio vascular system?


 https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/

Pycnogenol is a patented formulation of Pine Bark Extract which is standardized to 65-75% Procyanidin compounds by weight. Procyanidins are chain-like structures consisted of catechins similar to some found in green tea (the green tea catechins that do not have 'gallate' in their names). Pycnogenol is similar to Grape Seed Extract and Cocoa Polyphenols as those are the three most common sources of Procyanidins.

Pycnogenol's benefits include increased blood flow (via a mechanism related to increased Nitric Oxide levels) and improved blood glucose control. The former exerts cardioprotective effects and may help with erectile dysfunction, while the latter appears to be anti-diabetic.


----------



## ElChapo

smiddy444 said:


> @ElChapo Any chance you could let me know if this albumin level is OK to start cycling on again?
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/330415-bloods-good-to-go-after-prostitis-and-a-bad-tooth-infection/?do=embed
> 
> Can re-post the picture of the blood test if needed.
> 
> EDIT - Just noticed it comes up in the thumbnail once I pasted the link. To note - my GP doesn't seem overly concerned and I did have a nasty tooth infection at the time.
> 
> The prostitis seems to have gone finally btw.


 great to hear, checking it out now


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> It works very well with few sides and doesnt build too bad a tolerance. Depends on your genetics if you respond well too it.
> 
> Those with overactive catechol-o-methyltransferase AKA COMT enzyme AKA Warrior gene respond very well to it. These people are much lower levels of dopamine in the brain, so modafanil addresses this deficiency well.
> 
> You can read more about this gene here, it's very interesting. Affects your personality, pain tolerance, stress tolerance, etc :
> 
> https://selfhacked.com/blog/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/


 Interesting.

How would you rate modifinil for being more productive/seizing the day and did you experience less fatigue and or increased short term memory and concentration?

I'm yet to have my genome tested to establish were I differ on that front.

From what I understand warrior gene is quiet rare? would you say individuals who score high for being a dark triad are at a likelihood to possess this gene?


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Forever, metabolic slowdown will never completely stop fat loss, just slow it down.
> 
> 1,000 is the max deficit i would go and its not for evryone.


 Cheers mate. I been on 1500 defecit for past week and the difference between this and a 1000 defecit is literally night and day in terms of difficultmess


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> That's easy. Test p 600 mg-1 gram/ 50-100 mg winstrol daily. 12-16 weeks with TUDCA/NAC. 300-500 calorie surplus.
> 
> Dose will vary depending on experience level and level of development. A great beginner cycle is 300 mg test p + 50 mg winstrol daily (My personal recommendation for beginners). Will keep you dry, hard and strong. No bloat issues like Test E or cyp. You can inject test P x 2 a week or MWF.


 Brilliant thanks


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> 1 blood donation will bring RBC back in range and HCT should drop to 51-52%. You might have to donate twice to get the HCT under 50% although i would not worry if you can keep it under 52%.
> 
> UREA is normal for someone who eats a lot of protein and has more muscle than average, this is a metabolic byproduct of muscle metabolism like creatinine. Make sure you are hydrated as this can make it come out higher in blood work since urine will be more concentrated via dehydration.
> 
> ALT i wouldn't worry about that level. It could just be from training or the adex. It's not a worrisome level. Muscle damage from lifting can elevate those enzymes.
> 
> HDL will come up if you regularly do cardio and drink a glass (3-4 oz) of red wine a day. Even if HDL is suboptimal, regular cardio will protect your heart and vascular system from calcification, narrowing of the arteries, heart failure, stroke, etc.


 Brilliant thank you mate, major relief that they are not as bad as i thought. Ive booked in for friday to donate but i can only donate once every 12 weeks so will book in for every 12 weeks after that. I haven't got the guts to do it myself haha. Ive improved my cardio levels, now doing 20 mins instead of 10 intense cardio 5x a week after weight sessions.

I've been taking NAC to help with the ALT levels too plus keeping hydrated 4 litres of water per day.

I'v also started supplementing with citrus bergamot to help the HDL whats your thoughts on this to help raise HDL?

Cheers @ElChapo


----------



## zariph

Hey hopefully you can help me with these questions!

When will these steroids be completely out of the system and then not showing on bloodtest:
Test P

Test E

NPP

Also for how long is a vial good to use after drawing from it? For how long will a half used vial be good to use


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Interesting.
> 
> How would you rate modifinil for being more productive/seizing the day and did you experience less fatigue and or increased short term memory and concentration?
> 
> I'm yet to have my genome tested to establish were I differ on that front.
> 
> From what I understand warrior gene is quiet rare? would you say individuals who score high for being a dark triad are at a likelihood to possess this gene?


 I don't use modafanil, just coffee for me. It's not super rare but not as rare the hybrid gene.

No dark triad, the warrior gene makes you less exploratory, more resistant to pain and stress. If anything, the person would be more mellow and less neurotic.

There are two "warrior genes"

The COMT SNP

and the MAO SNP

COMT is the "good warrior gene"

MAO is the bad one, it increases risk of anger and violent outburst. They are both different genes completely.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant thank you mate, major relief that they are not as bad as i thought. Ive booked in for friday to donate but i can only donate once every 12 weeks so will book in for every 12 weeks after that. I haven't got the guts to do it myself haha. Ive improved my cardio levels, now doing 20 mins instead of 10 intense cardio 5x a week after weight sessions.
> 
> I've been taking NAC to help with the ALT levels too plus keeping hydrated 4 litres of water per day.
> 
> I'v also started supplementing with citrus bergamot to help the HDL whats your thoughts on this to help raise HDL?
> 
> Cheers @ElChapo


 I would not worry as much about your HDL as long as you are doing cardio from now until you die. Most people who are fit will not run into any heart issues.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey hopefully you can help me with these questions!
> 
> When will these steroids be completely out of the system and then not showing on bloodtest:
> Test P
> 
> Test E
> 
> NPP
> 
> Also for how long is a vial good to use after drawing from it? For how long will a half used vial be good to use


 steroidcalc.com

pop your numbers into that calculator to get a rough idea.

Oils will stay good for at least +5 years or more. Especially stored in a cool, dark place.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> steroidcalc.com
> 
> pop your numbers into that calculator to get a rough idea.
> 
> Oils will stay good for at least +5 years or more. Especially stored in a cool, dark place.


 Thank you! The wholes that the needles makes in the rubber (using 21g to draw) doesn't make the vial less sterile or anything ?


----------



## pma111

Is there any validity behind the suggestion of eating 5 or 6 meals per day keeps your metabolism racing therefore burns more calories than just 2 or 3 larger meals.

Bar cardio what else can you do to keep your metabolism up. Do any supplements help in any substantial way bar potentially dangerous fat burners. Green tea etc?

Which hormonal imbalances lower metabolism and is it by a substantial amount or fairly mild in reality.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you! The wholes that the needles makes in the rubber (using 21g to draw) doesn't make the vial less sterile or anything ?


 No, it will still be sterile. The benzyl alcohol also keeps bacteria from growing in the oil


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is there any validity behind the suggestion of eating 5 or 6 meals per day keeps your metabolism racing therefore burns more calories than just 2 or 3 larger meals.
> 
> Bar cardio what else can you do to keep your metabolism up. Do any supplements help in any substantial way bar potentially dangerous fat burners. Green tea etc?
> 
> Which hormonal imbalances lower metabolism and is it by a substantial amount or fairly mild in reality.


 100% bullshit.

Cardio is the best way to keep your TDEE higher so you can eat more while staying lean, the health benefits are substantial.

Hypothyroidism can lower TDEE by 10%, this is substantial in the long run and can seriously impact fat loss.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> 100% bullshit.
> 
> Cardio is the best way to keep your TDEE higher so you can eat more while staying lean, the health benefits are substantial.
> 
> Hypothyroidism can lower TDEE by 10%, this is substantial in the long run and can seriously impact fat loss.


 Thank you. One other quick one - if you are trying to lose weight and for arguments sake your maitenance is 2500. If you consume 2500 but burn 500 calories through excercise. Is that going to result in the exact same weight loss as someone who only consumed 2000 cals and no excercise. I read elsewhere consuming less calories is more predictable in terms of results than relying on excercise to put you into a deficit.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Is there a link between Conjunctivitis and steroid use / raloxifene use?

I've seen my ophthalmologist some days ago and she asked me 3 times if I was using steroids (even tho I replied 3 times no) , or medications , then she said I have conjunctivitus even tho I have no sides at all a part from loss of vision since a year.

She prescribed me some medications , but now I'm wondering if steroids use or raloxifen are the cause of it ?


----------



## Redsy

How quickly does Tren mess up cardio?

After previous questions and answers @ElChapo i have nailed it down to quite an effective dose of each. I am making good progress and strength and endurance increasing.

In summary, am a recreational cyclist and being using test P/EQ/GH 150/200/3iU E2D with some winny here and there. Also been getting good sessions in adding a bit of clen, yohimbine and caffeine, taurine seems to keep bad pumps away.

Anyway, thinking about running a RIP blend for 4 weeks before my holidays. Blend is Test P/Tren A/Mast P 75/75/50 its Nexus oil RIP 200

I run mild blast and cruises, my blasts are like others cruises :whistling: not looking for massive gains am old and want to be lean for bike. Am about 10-11% BF

So i was thinking about running 2-2.5ml/week of this blend.

1 - I pin test P E3D and was thinking about just doing same?

2 - So with 150 - 190mg / week of Tren A, do you think this will still affect cardio badly? If so how quickly will cardio be affected?

3 - With 150mg of test P i dont need AI. With this blend will i need an AI, never run Tren before.

4 do you think the proportions of this blend are good?

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Thank you. One other quick one - if you are trying to lose weight and for arguments sake your maitenance is 2500. If you consume 2500 but burn 500 calories through excercise. Is that going to result in the exact same weight loss as someone who only consumed 2000 cals and no excercise. I read elsewhere consuming less calories is more predictable in terms of results than relying on excercise to put you into a deficit.


 Yes, but i recommend you don't count your exercise calories into your equation.

What works best is to pop your numbers into a TDEE calculator that uses the Katch-McArdle formula with sedentary or light activity multipler and adjust as you lose weight. When and if you stall, lower calories by 200-300 daily.

I would consider it a stall if your average daily weight is the same for 2-4 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is there a link between Conjunctivitis and steroid use / raloxifene use?
> 
> I've seen my ophthalmologist some days ago and she asked me 3 times if I was using steroids (even tho I replied 3 times no) , or medications , then she said I have conjunctivitus even tho I have no sides at all a part from loss of vision since a year.
> 
> She prescribed me some medications , but now I'm wondering if steroids use or raloxifen are the cause of it ?


 Doubt it, and did she mention if she meant corticosteroids?

Corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are both steroids but very different effects and applications.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> How quickly does Tren mess up cardio?
> 
> After previous questions and answers @ElChapo i have nailed it down to quite an effective dose of each. I am making good progress and strength and endurance increasing.
> 
> In summary, am a recreational cyclist and being using test P/EQ/GH 150/200/3iU E2D with some winny here and there. Also been getting good sessions in adding a bit of clen, yohimbine and caffeine, taurine seems to keep bad pumps away.
> 
> Anyway, thinking about running a RIP blend for 4 weeks before my holidays. Blend is Test P/Tren A/Mast P 75/75/50 its Nexus oil RIP 200
> 
> I run mild blast and cruises, my blasts are like others cruises :whistling: not looking for massive gains am old and want to be lean for bike. Am about 10-11% BF
> 
> So i was thinking about running 2-2.5ml/week of this blend.
> 
> 1 - I pin test P E3D and was thinking about just doing same?
> 
> 2 - So with 150 - 190mg / week of Tren A, do you think this will still affect cardio badly? If so how quickly will cardio be affected?
> 
> 3 - With 150mg of test P i dont need AI. With this blend will i need an AI, never run Tren before.
> 
> 4 do you think the proportions of this blend are good?
> 
> Many thanks


 My cardio wasn't affected when i ran 200 mg tren ace only. I think 200 mg might be the max. A friend of mine who boxes runs 100 mg tren ace per week with 250 test E, his cardio capacity is excellent and he can run long distance with no issue.

You might be okay with that stack. I would give it a shot.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Doubt it, and did she mention if she meant corticosteroids?
> 
> Corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are both steroids but very different effects and applications.


 i was thinking the same , maybe she was talking about corticosteroids but she asked 3 times in 2 minutes lol. maybe she asked that because of my physique idk.

anyway thanks


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> Yes, but i recommend you don't count your exercise calories into your equation.
> 
> What works best is to pop your numbers into a TDEE calculator that uses the Katch-McArdle formula with sedentary or light activity multipler and adjust as you lose weight. When and if you stall, lower calories by 200-300 daily.
> 
> I would consider it a stall if your average daily weight is the same for 2-4 weeks.


 Whats the thinking behind not factoring in excercise calories into the equation. Or is it just to be on the safe side/help keep focus on calorie control.


----------



## MrBishi

I like to keep to my cruises the same length as the previous cycle. After a long winter/spring bulk it's led me to an smaller number of weeks until Winter bulk than usual.

Would you say six weeks of 100mg Winstrol is to short a cycle (alongside 200mg of Test)?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Whats the thinking behind not factoring in excercise calories into the equation. Or is it just to be on the safe side/help keep focus on calorie control.


 The focus is calorie control, people get more neurotic and crazy when they start trying to outburn their diet. Trust on me on this.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> I like to keep to my cruises the same length as the previous cycle. After a long winter/spring bulk it's led me to an smaller number of weeks until Winter bulk than usual.
> 
> Would you say six weeks of 100mg Winstrol is to short a cycle (alongside 200mg of Test)?


 I would push it to 12 weeks. Run NAC and TUDCA if you are worried about liver toxicity.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> i was thinking the same , maybe she was talking about corticosteroids but she asked 3 times in 2 minutes lol. maybe she asked that because of my physique idk.
> 
> anyway thanks


 Yep maybe, its not really her business if so haha


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo Using 50mcg T3 since extended time. My FT4 levels are near 0, ofc also TSH. (Which is ok).

Did some research and since I am on 6+iu HGH I decided to add 100mcg T4 Ed to see if I can up it but..... After 2weeks I noticed having less and less energy into the gym, and also during the day, also sleep was worst....

I did bloods for FT3 and FT4 and had no difference in the readings....

What can cause this tiredness?

(I had tiredness both in caloric deficit and excess)

Now I stopped the T4 and in 3 days I was fine.


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> I would push it to 12 weeks. Run NAC and TUDCA if you are worried about liver toxicity.


 Bit apprehensive about that long as it'd mean I'd be doing 12 weeks of Winstrol then jumping straight into a 15 week Deca & Tren winter cycle :rolleye11:

Think I'll just have an extra long cruise if it's not worth 6 weeks of Winstrol.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Bit apprehensive about that long as it'd mean I'd be doing 12 weeks of Winstrol then jumping straight into a 15 week Deca & Tren winter cycle :rolleye11:
> 
> Think I'll just have an extra long cruise if it's not worth 6 weeks of Winstrol.


 I misunderstood. You are cruising on winstrol? That's a bad idea.

300 mg test is a safer cruise and will preserve muscle and strength very effetively for most trainees.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo Using 50mcg T3 since extended time. My FT4 levels are near 0, ofc also TSH. (Which is ok).
> 
> Did some research and since I am on 6+iu HGH I decided to add 100mcg T4 Ed to see if I can up it but..... After 2weeks I noticed having less and less energy into the gym, and also during the day, also sleep was worst....
> 
> I did bloods for FT3 and FT4 and had no difference in the readings....
> 
> What can cause this tiredness?
> 
> (I had tiredness both in caloric deficit and excess)
> 
> Now I stopped the T4 and in 3 days I was fine.


 You're experiencing hyperthyroid fatigue. Optimal thyroid levels will increase energy levels, too much and too little will cause fatigue.

On 100 mcg your levels should be in the +1.2 ng/dL range. Are you taking T4 on an Empty stomach and waiting 30 minutes to 1 hour before eating or drinking anything?


----------



## MrBishi

ElChapo said:


> I misunderstood. You are cruising on winstrol? That's a bad idea.
> 
> 300 mg test is a safer cruise and will preserve muscle and strength very effetively for most trainees.


 Lol no I'm cruising on 200mg of Test.

Was just thinking of of running a short 6 week Winstrol cycle between holidays on top of the cruise dose of test.


----------



## ElChapo

MrBishi said:


> Lol no I'm cruising on 200mg of Test.
> 
> Was just thinking of of running a short 6 week Winstrol cycle between holidays on top of the cruise dose of test.


 I would save the winstrol for the blast. You will have better results that way.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> You're experiencing hyperthyroid fatigue. Optimal thyroid levels will increase energy levels, too much and too little will cause fatigue.
> 
> On 100 mcg your levels should be in the +1.2 ng/dL range. Are you taking T4 on an Empty stomach and waiting 30 minutes to 1 hour before eating or drinking anything?


 Mmmh no i take T3 and T4 on empty stomach then after 10mins I eat ....

From bloods FT3 was 6pg/ml (range 2-4) with 50mcg T3 100mcg T4.

On 100mcg T3 and it was just 6,9pg/ml no T4 same range

On 25mcg T3 had 3,6pg/ml no T4 same range.

On 100mcg T3 i was flat but I think that value wasn't at regimen since in 2 more weeks started suffering of bad fatigue, and had to run to the bathroom every time I ate.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Mmmh no i take T3 and T4 on empty stomach then after 10mins I eat ....
> 
> From bloods FT3 was 6pg/ml (range 2-4) with 50mcg T3 100mcg T4.
> 
> On 100mcg T3 and it was just 6,9pg/ml no T4 same range
> 
> On 25mcg T3 had 3,6pg/ml no T4 same range.
> 
> On 100mcg T3 i was flat but I think that value wasn't at regimen since in 2 more weeks started suffering of bad fatigue, and had to run to the bathroom every time I ate.


 You need to wait 30 minutes to half an hour for T4 to be absorbed properly.

Those are symptoms of hyperthyroidism.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think of Animal Flex (supplement for joints) ?

What are the best supplements for joints support for you ?

I use curcumin , omega 3 , cissus.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think of Animal Flex (supplement for joints) ?
> 
> What are the best supplements for joints support for you ?
> 
> I use curcumin , omega 3 , cissus.


 It's better to buy separate supplements for cheaper, you can pick the ingredients that actually work.

Meriva curcumin and pycnogenol

Glucosamine+chondroitin is hit or miss for people


----------



## SoberHans

El Chapo what's your take on deloading or taking a rest from the gym for your CNS?

What's the best procedure?

Got a few little injuries and think I'm gonna take a week off maybe more.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> El Chapo what's your take on deloading or taking a rest from the gym for your CNS?
> 
> What's the best procedure?
> 
> Got a few little injuries and think I'm gonna take a week off maybe more.


 It does the body and mind a lot of good. A full week off is what i recommend from all training and cardio. Your joints, ligaments, muscle, CNS and psyche will all benefit immensely from a full week off of training. You will come back refreshed and more motivated than before. It takes at least 3-4 weeks of not training to start losing muscle and strength.

If you have a mild injury 1-2 weeks will usually fix it, more moderate injury might need at least 3 weeks off.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> It does the body and mind a lot of good. A full week off is what i recommend from all training and cardio. Your joints, ligaments, muscle, CNS and psyche will all benefit immensely from a full week off of training. You will come back refreshed and more motivated than before. It takes at least 3-4 weeks of not training to start losing muscle and strength.
> 
> If you have a mild injury 1-2 weeks will usually fix it, more moderate injury might need at least 3 weeks off.


 That's brilliant thanks again


----------



## jd

@El Chapo I've really let myself go for the last year or so and am I few stone overweight, I've just been doing 150mg every 10 days for self trt, how would 300mg be while dieting for the next 6 months work? Aim is recomp, might even take a year


----------



## Tricky

jd said:


> @El Chapo I've really let myself go for the last year or so and am I few stone overweight, I've just been doing 150mg every 10 days for self trt, how would 300mg be while dieting for the next 6 months work? Aim is recomp, might even take a year


 Get some dnp, t3 and clen. Stay on 250-300mg test for the duration. You'll soon cut up.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> It does the body and mind a lot of good. A full week off is what i recommend from all training and cardio. Your joints, ligaments, muscle, CNS and psyche will all benefit immensely from a full week off of training. You will come back refreshed and more motivated than before. It takes at least 3-4 weeks of not training to start losing muscle and strength.
> 
> If you have a mild injury 1-2 weeks will usually fix it, more moderate injury might need at least 3 weeks off.


 I usually walk quite a bit, over 10000 steps a day at a moderate pace, should I cut this down too or is this ok during the rest week?

Also should I be eating at maintainence or slightly over?

Cheers


----------



## jd

Tricky said:


> Get some dnp, t3 and clen. Stay on 250-300mg test for the duration. You'll soon cut up.


 Can't take dnp and t3 due to work mate, dunno about Clen tho


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> It's better to buy separate supplements for cheaper, you can pick the ingredients that actually work.
> 
> Meriva curcumin and pycnogenol
> 
> Glucosamine+chondroitin is hit or miss for people


 Would you say that fish oil for joints/tendons and generel health is worth investing in?


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> @El Chapo I've really let myself go for the last year or so and am I few stone overweight, I've just been doing 150mg every 10 days for self trt, how would 300mg be while dieting for the next 6 months work? Aim is recomp, might even take a year


 You won't see a difference in fat loss. Calories in and out is 100% of fat loss.

Recomp is slow and does not always work. You are better off cutting and bulking in cycles until you reach your desired physique. It's much more efficient this way.


----------



## ElChapo

jd said:


> @El Chapo I've really let myself go for the last year or so and am I few stone overweight, I've just been doing 150mg every 10 days for self trt, how would 300mg be while dieting for the next 6 months work? Aim is recomp, might even take a year


 Forget the drugs, you need to stick to a diet that puts you in a caloric deficit. You can eat what you eat now but in smaller amounts. Aim for a 500 calorie deficit which will lead you to lose 1 lbs of fat per day if you lift weights, this will spare muscle from being catabolized for energy.

Once you are doing the above, then you can add the drugs to speed up fat loss, but you must be in a caloric deficit. You can add 20 minutes of light cardio 3-6 times a week to further speed up fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> I usually walk quite a bit, over 10000 steps a day at a moderate pace, should I cut this down too or is this ok during the rest week?
> 
> Also should I be eating at maintainence or slightly over?
> 
> Cheers


 If you are doing it as exercise, cut it out for the week. Eat at maintenance or don't count calories at all if you want a mental break from that as well, just dont binge eat or pig out.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Would you say that fish oil for joints/tendons and generel health is worth investing in?


 You can do fish oil or eat oily fish 2-3 times per week for the same effect. Just make sure the fish oil is high quality, i recommend Carlson's. Good value and quality.

There's enough evidence that it might be worth taking. I don't use it myself though.


----------



## jd

ElChapo said:


> Forget the drugs, you need to stick to a diet that puts you in a caloric deficit. You can eat what you eat now but in smaller amounts. Aim for a 500 calorie deficit which will lead you to lose 1 lbs of fat per day if you lift weights, this will spare muscle from being catabolized for energy.
> 
> Once you are doing the above, then you can add the drugs to speed up fat loss, but you must be in a caloric deficit. You can add 20 minutes of light cardio 3-6 times a week to further speed up fat loss.


 I have just started at 2500 calories a day at 18.5 stone using MFP to track and doing 15 -20 miles road cycling 3-4 times a week and 10k steps a day alongside a ppl routine

also forgot to add I did train before just haven't been consistent recently due to life but this has changed now


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Starting to bulk this week as ive been cutting for 14 weeks, got down from 21% to 13% body fat. Will be bulking on 600mg test e and var at 50mg everyday.

My calorie surplus is 3250cals. If i continue my daily cardio of burning 100-150 cals will i need to put the 100-150 cals on top of my surplus so that will take my surplus to 3400 and so on?

Cheers mate.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Starting to bulk this week as ive been cutting for 14 weeks, got down from 21% to 13% body fat. Will be bulking on 600mg test e and var at 50mg everyday.
> 
> My calorie surplus is 3250cals. If i continue my daily cardio of burning 100-150 cals will i need to put the 100-150 cals on top of my surplus so that will take my surplus to 3400 and so on?
> 
> Cheers mate.


 Nah, don't count the exercise. Just eat the surplus. If you are gaining to little weight or too much weight, adjust as you go. You can increase or decrease by 200 cals if either happen.


----------



## Cypionate

@ElChapo For a good while now, probably about 3 months gradually getting worse I've been getting really bad stabbing pains in both of my rear delts whenever I do any pressing exercises, but not when I work rear delts directly, it's so bad now I can barely press 60kg bench without agony and I cannot do any OHP or DB press at all or cable/db flies either

I was away from the gym for almost a month recently only been back 1 week and the pains were just as bad as they were a month ago, but now they are creeping into my front delts too with bench (Flat and incline)

Naproxen is not touching it, I took 1000mg and didn't help (Also tried taking it daily for weeks previously)

It's only pressing that hurts, I can do DB lateral raises, bent over DB flies, cable side raises / crossovers / face pulls etc, no problems

Starting to really impact my training as I cannot do much at all for push/chest

It would be nice if there was a magic pill that would take the pain away, but I'm guessing it's a bit more than that, any ideas?


----------



## Baka

Cypionate said:


> @ElChapo For a good while now, probably about 3 months gradually getting worse I've been getting really bad stabbing pains in both of my rear delts whenever I do any pressing exercises, but not when I work rear delts directly, it's so bad now I can barely press 60kg bench without agony and I cannot do any OHP or DB press at all or cable/db flies either
> 
> I was away from the gym for almost a month recently only been back 1 week and the pains were just as bad as they were a month ago, but now they are creeping into my front delts too with bench (Flat and incline)
> 
> Naproxen is not touching it, I took 1000mg and didn't help (Also tried taking it daily for weeks previously)
> 
> It's only pressing that hurts, I can do DB lateral raises, bent over DB flies, cable side raises / crossovers / face pulls etc, no problems
> 
> Starting to really impact my training as I cannot do much at all for push/chest
> 
> It would be nice if there was a magic pill that would take the pain away, but I'm guessing it's a bit more than that, any ideas?


 what does the doctor said to you ?


----------



## Cypionate

Baka said:


> what does the doctor said to you ?


 Haven't been to the doctors, they'll just say stop lifting


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> @ElChapo For a good while now, probably about 3 months gradually getting worse I've been getting really bad stabbing pains in both of my rear delts whenever I do any pressing exercises, but not when I work rear delts directly, it's so bad now I can barely press 60kg bench without agony and I cannot do any OHP or DB press at all or cable/db flies either
> 
> I was away from the gym for almost a month recently only been back 1 week and the pains were just as bad as they were a month ago, but now they are creeping into my front delts too with bench (Flat and incline)
> 
> Naproxen is not touching it, I took 1000mg and didn't help (Also tried taking it daily for weeks previously)
> 
> It's only pressing that hurts, I can do DB lateral raises, bent over DB flies, cable side raises / crossovers / face pulls etc, no problems
> 
> Starting to really impact my training as I cannot do much at all for push/chest
> 
> It would be nice if there was a magic pill that would take the pain away, but I'm guessing it's a bit more than that, any ideas?


 Sounds like possible impingement but typically this happens in the front delts. The cause is muscle imbalance, either too much pressing or too much pulling in relation to each other.

Do you train rear delts a lot compared to pressing and front delts?


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> Sounds like possible impingement but typically this happens in the front delts. The cause is muscle imbalance, either too much pressing or too much pulling in relation to each other.
> 
> Do you train rear delts a lot compared to pressing and front delts?


 The opposite if anything, I was doing a lot of bench, probably 70/30 in favour of pressing, @BLUE(UK) suggested the same thing, to spend more time hitting rear delts but since it has crept to my front delts I thought I'd ask here too, but the weird thing was the pain was in the rear when I pressed, even on flat/incline where I would have expected the front delts to hurt if anything


----------



## BLUE(UK)

Cypionate said:


> The opposite if anything, I was doing a lot of bench, probably 70/30 in favour of pressing, @BLUE(UK) suggested the same thing, to spend more time hitting rear delts but since it has crept to my front delts I thought I'd ask here too, but the weird thing was the pain was in the rear when I pressed, even on flat/incline where I would have expected the front delts to hurt if anything


 I get pain in my rear delts(actually deeper than the rear delts) when I try and do higher reps, I am pushing so hard on the final rep that the only thing I can think that I am doing is twisting my shoulder joint to try and complete the rep. I just know to stop at this point. I must say that since doing lots of face pulls, this occurance is far less frequent than it was before implementing them


----------



## BLUE(UK)

@Cypionate

Another thing to try is TUT(time under tension) so you don't require so much resistance.


----------



## Cypionate

BLUE(UK) said:


> @Cypionate
> 
> Another thing to try is TUT(time under tension) so you don't require so much resistance.


 The problem now is, pretty much any weight, even just the bar for ohp, and some days even just the bar on the bench is causing too much pain to carry on, I can't even DB press 15kg, even getting them up hurts too much

Give me 30kg bent over seated db flies, no problem, 80kg tbar fine

It feels like something in both shoulders is being crushed when I put pressing weight on them, but pulling is fine


----------



## stewedw

Go see a physio. I tore my rotator and have an ongoing issue. Today got example I had 80kg each side for flat hammer chest press, last week it was 40 on th bad side. Same for shoulders. Impingement essentially caused by a tear of the there's minor and also damage to the tendons at the back (superspinateous?)

I'm good as gold for ten to 15 days after physio, however if I miss a session I can't even sleep on that side

El Chapo said to me face pulls, rear delts, rubber band work etc and I've added all of that so I'm pain free for long periods and only tender the day after chest or shoulders.

Hope this helps.


----------



## BLUE(UK)

Cypionate said:


> The problem now is, pretty much any weight, even just the bar for ohp, and some days even just the bar on the bench is causing too much pain to carry on, I can't even DB press 15kg, even getting them up hurts too much
> 
> Give me 30kg bent over seated db flies, no problem, 80kg tbar fine
> 
> It feels like something in both shoulders is being crushed when I put pressing weight on them, but pulling is fine


 My guess is that Your shoulders are 'seated' incorrectly. I'll almost guarantee that they sit forwards which is why they hurt.

Forget any presses, concentrate on face pulls(are you even doing these correctly?), learn to pull your delts back and down for any pressing movement.

Do you Fcuk about online gaming? This posture won't help either.

Ive just spent since last July sorting out my knee tendon, I couldn't even bend my leg but focussing on it has allowed me to do 3x12 140kg squats and 8rep 180kg squats. It's still not quite right but I'm persisting with it. Why am I telling you this? Because you're looking for a magical pill when it's most likely that you need to WORK on it to sort it out. I see it all the time in the gym, lads on gear, go crazy pressing but do next to f'kall pulling, pain in front delts so do more front f'kin raises....talk about making it worse. Then they take a month off(which usually helps as the front loses strength), then they return with more god damned front raises and then say their shoulders are ruined and give up.


----------



## BLUE(UK)

stewedw said:


> Go see a physio. I tore my rotator and have an ongoing issue. Today got example I had 80kg each side for flat hammer chest press, last week it was 40 on th bad side. Same for shoulders. Impingement essentially caused by a tear of the there's minor and also damage to the tendons at the back (superspinateous?)
> 
> I'm good as gold for ten to 15 days after physio, however if I miss a session I can't even sleep on that side
> 
> El Chapo said to me face pulls, rear delts, rubber band work etc and I've added all of that so I'm pain free for long periods and only tender the day after chest or shoulders.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 My shoulders gave me hell, had to wear a top to bed because the pain would be enough to wake me up. Something worth taking note of is when you lie on your side, pull your delt into the socket and back. If you lie with it forwards it'll hurt eventually as it's too far forwards due to the imbalance. :thumbup1:


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> The opposite if anything, I was doing a lot of bench, probably 70/30 in favour of pressing, @BLUE(UK) suggested the same thing, to spend more time hitting rear delts but since it has crept to my front delts I thought I'd ask here too, but the weird thing was the pain was in the rear when I pressed, even on flat/incline where I would have expected the front delts to hurt if anything


 It's likely impingement, go to a good sports medicine doctor, he will diagnose it in 5 minutes.

The cure is to train the weaker side of your delts. I used to get front delt impingement pain all the time until i started incorporating face pulls in equal amounts to my benching and press.

If you do 3-6 sets of bench, do 3-6 set of face pulls. They are an isolation exercise for your rear delts. Rows hit the rear delts indirectly like the bench hits the front delts, but to really isolate and strengthen them, face pulls are the best and they also give your delts a good stretch.


----------



## Pancake'

Cypionate said:


> The opposite if anything, I was doing a lot of bench, probably 70/30 in favour of pressing, @BLUE(UK) suggested the same thing, to spend more time hitting rear delts but since it has crept to my front delts I thought I'd ask here too, but the weird thing was the pain was in the rear when I pressed, even on flat/incline where I would have expected the front delts to hurt if anything


 Dead hang pull ups

Rows

Reverse Flies

(The big one) paused band face pulls.

The key is to do slightly more back work, (Pulling>Pressing) that incorporates lots of rear delt work and mobility work with bands.

I can put forth the bands I recommend and a solid mobility routine via pm if you wish instead cramming elchapo thread.


----------



## Pancake'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410335/

thoughts elchapo?


----------



## Cypionate

BLUE(UK) said:


> My guess is that Your shoulders are 'seated' incorrectly. I'll almost guarantee that they sit forwards which is why they hurt.
> 
> Forget any presses, concentrate on face pulls(are you even doing these correctly?), learn to pull your delts back and down for any pressing movement.
> 
> Do you Fcuk about online gaming? This posture won't help either.
> 
> Ive just spent since last July sorting out my knee tendon, I couldn't even bend my leg but focussing on it has allowed me to do 3x12 140kg squats and 8rep 180kg squats. It's still not quite right but I'm persisting with it. Why am I telling you this? Because you're looking for a magical pill when it's most likely that you need to WORK on it to sort it out. I see it all the time in the gym, lads on gear, go crazy pressing but do next to f'kall pulling, pain in front delts so do more front f'kin raises....talk about making it worse. Then they take a month off(which usually helps as the front loses strength), then they return with more god damned front raises and then say their shoulders are ruined and give up.


 Nah I don't game but I do sit at the PC a lot on here and other forums

Yea I've started doing more rear delt work, always watching training vids to improve so fairly sure I'm doing them correctly, but have only been back a week so there's time yet, long as I know what's causing it and how to fix it I can battle on

Back and shoulder days are full separate days but chest was always much more intense, I did about the same front raises as rear so it will have been bench that caused it

Cheers, will minimise pressing (Not that I have much choice) and focus heavily on pulling, specifically rear delts for a couple months, see how they are

And I'm the same in bed, I can't sleep through without being woken up because of the pain in my shoulders some nights


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> It's likely impingement, go to a good sports medicine doctor, he will diagnose it in 5 minutes.
> 
> The cure is to train the weaker side of your delts. I used to get front delt impingement pain all the time until i started incorporating face pulls in equal amounts to my benching and press.
> 
> If you do 3-6 sets of bench, do 3-6 set of face pulls. They are an isolation exercise for your rear delts. Rows hit the rear delts indirectly like the bench hits the front delts, but to really isolate and strengthen them, face pulls are the best and they also give your delts a good stretch.


 Will do thanks, will start doing them eod, will report back in a month

Cheers


----------



## Cypionate

Pancake' said:


> Dead hang pull ups
> 
> Rows
> 
> Reverse Flies
> 
> (The big one) paused band face pulls.
> 
> The key is to do slightly more back work, (Pulling>Pressing) that incorporates lots of rear delt work and mobility work with bands.
> 
> I can put forth the bands I recommend and a solid mobility routine via pm if you wish instead cramming elchapo thread.


 Cheers, will try with the cables for face pulls for now, might give you a shout for the bands at some point

Hopefully all this sorts it


----------



## BLUE(UK)

Cypionate said:


> Nah I don't game but I do sit at the PC a lot on here and other forums
> 
> Yea I've started doing more rear delt work, always watching training vids to improve so fairly sure I'm doing them correctly, but have only been back a week so there's time yet, long as I know what's causing it and how to fix it I can battle on
> 
> Back and shoulder days are full separate days but chest was always much more intense, I did about the same front raises as rear so it will have been bench that caused it
> 
> Cheers, will minimise pressing (Not that I have much choice) and focus heavily on pulling, specifically rear delts for a couple months, see how they are
> 
> And I'm the same in bed, I can't sleep through without being woken up because of the pain in my shoulders some nights


 Since you'll drop chest session, split back and shoulders so you work rear delts twice a week until you start doing chest again? Also drop front raises.

Once you feel you can go through the movements to work chest, do TUT and then slowly increase the weights(drop time under tension)til back to normal rather than just go back to normal. At least that is what I'd do.


----------



## Cypionate

BLUE(UK) said:


> Since you'll drop chest session, split back and shoulders so you work rear delts twice a week until you start doing chest again? Also drop front raises.
> 
> Once you feel you can go through the movements to work chest, do TUT and then slowly increase the weights(drop time under tension)til back to normal rather than just go back to normal. At least that is what I'd do.


 Was gonna be chest tomorrow, so I`ll drop that and do back/shoulders twice a week, tbh front raises were never really a solid part of my training, I did them sometimes but not every time so won't make much difference dropping them, my front delts just grew by looking at them anyway which might be part of the problem

I`ll know when they start improving because they hurt even now just lifting my arms into a db shoulder press position, then I`ll give TUT a shot for a while until fully healed

Appreciate it cheers


----------



## BLUE(UK)

Cypionate said:


> Was gonna be chest tomorrow, so I`ll drop that and do back/shoulders twice a week, tbh front raises were never really a solid part of my training, I did them sometimes but not every time so won't make much difference dropping them, my front delts just grew by looking at them anyway which might be part of the problem
> 
> I`ll know when they start improving because they hurt even now just lifting my arms into a db shoulder press position, then I`ll give TUT a shot for a while until fully healed
> 
> Appreciate it cheers


 My front delts look big but people don't realise that it's actually mostly bone where they naturally sit so far forwards, even if I raise my arm, my 'delt' pops and looks big even though it's mostly bone. I've never trained front delts, my OHP's and incorrect bench presses have always hit them hard. My delts I guess are my stronger points.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410335/
> 
> thoughts elchapo?


 Not something i believe applies to fit individuals who stay active. If you are sedentary, over-weight, etc maybe


----------



## Cypionate

BLUE(UK) said:


> My front delts look big but people don't realise that it's actually mostly bone where they naturally sit so far forwards, even if I raise my arm, my 'delt' pops and looks big even though it's mostly bone. I've never trained front delts, my OHP's and incorrect bench presses have always hit them hard. My delts I guess are my stronger points.


 Yea my front delts are pretty big compared to the rest, when I lift my arms the muscle pops up quite a bit

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/305095-cypionate-21-months/?do=findComment&comment=6217875



Code:


[URL=https://i.imgur.com/KyEZQAr]https://i.imgur.com/KyEZQAr[/URL].jpg

 Delts are my genetic gift, but apparently only front and side, gonna have to work for those rears


----------



## Pancake'

Can you take trapz out of a lateral raise or at least minimise trap involvement?


----------



## 777

My bloodwork. Should I get worried about lowest above normal indicators?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Can you take trapz out of a lateral raise or at least minimise trap involvement?


 Keep scapula(shoulder blades) retracted through the whole ROM.


----------



## ElChapo

777 said:


> My bloodwork. Should I get worried about lowest above normal indicators?
> 
> View attachment 170715


 Did you recently donate blood or have surgery? You are anemic.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

hey

My dad suffers from a lot of bad things , he don't walk straight and lose his balance , he has stomach problems too .

I told him to check all hormones , thyroid , blood , liver , wrote all down on a paper for him to ask a doctor.

I think his problem is more neuronal , what would you ask to a doctor to check neuronal problems ? I wrote HGH and IGF-1 too in hormonal panel because I know IGF-1 is linked to neuronal and cognitive problems.

thank you


----------



## pma111

Would there be any issues in using both nizoral and minoxidil at the same time to tackle hair loss from two angles./mechanisms. And is the DHT factor due to high DHT levels or more DHT sensitive individuals. If its due to high levels are there any supplements to lower levels rather than crush/block them altogether.


----------



## 777

ElChapo said:


> Did you recently donate blood or have surgery? You are anemic.


 No I didnt, but had problems with bone marrow earlier. Ferrum should help to rise hgb levels, but the others..? Could you reply me in PM with the ideas?


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> My cardio wasn't affected when i ran 200 mg tren ace only. I think 200 mg might be the max. A friend of mine who boxes runs 100 mg tren ace per week with 250 test E, his cardio capacity is excellent and he can run long distance with no issue.
> 
> You might be okay with that stack. I would give it a shot.


 So if it's tren a is going to affect cardio, how quickly will I notice it? Running 100-150mg/wk.

If it's affected so counterproductive...and I stop tren a. How quickly will cardio return to previous levels. Thanks


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Whats your opinion on cooking with extra virgin olive oil and supplementing citrus bergamot for hdl? Ive read a few articles that olive oil can raise hdl and lower ldl also read a thread on here regarding citrus bergamot for hdl?


----------



## y2_dyc

@El Chapo

I read in the Daily Mail today about an individual getting kidney issues after taking excessive Vitamin D3 around 10,000 iu per day.

The recommended dosage varies a lot when reading different articles. Is 10,000 iu over kill? What dosage would you recommend?

Thanks


----------



## stargazer

y2_dyc said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I read in the Daily Mail today about an individual getting kidney issues after taking excessive Vitamin D3 around 10,000 iu per day.
> 
> The recommended dosage varies a lot when reading different articles. Is 10,000 iu over kill? What dosage would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


 I have always recommended 5000iu per day during PCT as it increase the efficacy of Clomiphene, this means you can get the same results using only half the amount of clomid, that's got to be a good thing.

As for daily dose of Vit D3, 4000iu seems optimal for us brits who don't get much sun.


----------



## Baka

y2_dyc said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I read in the Daily Mail today about an individual getting kidney issues after taking excessive Vitamin D3 around 10,000 iu per day.
> 
> The recommended dosage varies a lot when reading different articles. Is 10,000 iu over kill? What dosage would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


 I've been taking 10k iu / day for years now , nothing wrong with my kidneys

I did blood works too , I had like 10-20% + of the max range values


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey
> 
> My dad suffers from a lot of bad things , he don't walk straight and lose his balance , he has stomach problems too .
> 
> I told him to check all hormones , thyroid , blood , liver , wrote all down on a paper for him to ask a doctor.
> 
> I think his problem is more neuronal , what would you ask to a doctor to check neuronal problems ? I wrote HGH and IGF-1 too in hormonal panel because I know IGF-1 is linked to neuronal and cognitive problems.
> 
> thank you


 Something like this is way above my scope of practice. He should see a neurologist. Of course, it's always good to check an elderly person's testosterone and IGF-1 level.

Get him to a neuro to rule out neurological problems and try to get him to follow a safe exercise regimine if he is able to. A sports medicine MD might be able to help, exercise is the best medicine, period.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Would there be any issues in using both nizoral and minoxidil at the same time to tackle hair loss from two angles./mechanisms. And is the DHT factor due to high DHT levels or more DHT sensitive individuals. If its due to high levels are there any supplements to lower levels rather than crush/block them altogether.


 Theoretically yes.

Some people claim minoxidil messes up their skin and brings on wrinkles, this is anecdotal though but something to keep in mind.

It seems to be some kind of DHT sensitivity and not the serum DHT level itself. Some people take a ton of AAS with zero hair loss, others are losing hair in their late teens with normal testosterone levels. It's still something of a mystery, we just know that androgens are in some way involved in the process.


----------



## ElChapo

777 said:


> No I didnt, but had problems with bone marrow earlier. Ferrum should help to rise hgb levels, but the others..? Could you reply me in PM with the ideas?


 Send me a PM


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> So if it's tren a is going to affect cardio, how quickly will I notice it? Running 100-150mg/wk.
> 
> If it's affected so counterproductive...and I stop tren a. How quickly will cardio return to previous levels. Thanks


 +3-4 weeks usually

I'd give it 2-3 weeks for cardio to come back. This is assuming acetate not E. You should be fine, if anything i might tweak the test dosage and drop it a bit.

200-300 mg per week combined total dosage max. I think 200 mg total would be ideal.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Whats your opinion on cooking with extra virgin olive oil and supplementing citrus bergamot for hdl? Ive read a few articles that olive oil can raise hdl and lower ldl also read a thread on here regarding citrus bergamot for hdl?


 EVOO is great for cooking, citrus bergamot seems to be legit.

More important than either of those is doing regular, cardiovascular exercise. Nothing is a more potent as medicine for prevention of virtually all disease.

Some one who is fit but eats junk will be a lot healthier than someone who eats "clean/healthy" but is sedentary or doesn't train their heart.


----------



## ElChapo

y2_dyc said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I read in the Daily Mail today about an individual getting kidney issues after taking excessive Vitamin D3 around 10,000 iu per day.
> 
> The recommended dosage varies a lot when reading different articles. Is 10,000 iu over kill? What dosage would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


 I saw this case study. The patient had been taking 12k IU daily for many years and was also sunbathing for 8 hours a day. Vitamin D toxicity. The dose makes the poison no matter what we are talking about, including water.

10,000 IU is a great loading dose for someone with deficient levels. The ideal maintenance dose will depend on sun exposure. If you live in the UK or East Coast USA where sun exposure for most of the year is minimal, 5,000 IU is an optimal dose for most people (with a big or fatty meal for optimal absorption). Generally, i take 5K IU year round except in the summer when i get more sunlight. This keeps my levels between 50-70 ng/mL for the most part. You will also get trace amounts of Vitamin D from fortified foods like dairy, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I've been taking 10k iu / day for years now , nothing wrong with my kidneys
> 
> I did blood works too , I had like 10-20% + of the max range values


 You never want Vitamin D levels over 80 ng/mL, this will stress out the kidneys and distort the balance of calcium and electrolytes in the blood. Increased calcification of the vascular system is also a concern.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> +3-4 weeks usually
> 
> I'd give it 2-3 weeks for cardio to come back. This is assuming acetate not E. You should be fine, if anything i might tweak the test dosage and drop it a bit.
> 
> 200-300 mg per week combined total dosage max. I think 200 mg total would be ideal.


 Yeah tren A and test P.

Thinking tren A/Test P - 100/150.

Would you lower again to 100/100 ?

As am using a RIP it would have 35mg Mast P per 100mg of Tren A


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> You never want Vitamin D levels over 80 ng/mL, this will stress out the kidneys and distort the balance of calcium and electrolytes in the blood. Increased calcification of the vascular system is also a concern.


 thanks ! I didnt know that , my doctor told me it was ok that's why.

I m also taking raloxifene , and I remember reading to take vitamin D + calcium while on it for bones

I had 82ng/ml or 92ng/ml , I don't remember exactly


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Yeah tren A and test P.
> 
> Thinking tren A/Test P - 100/150.
> 
> Would you lower again to 100/100 ?
> 
> As am using a RIP it would have 35mg Mast P per 100mg of Tren A


 200-300 mg total per should be the sweet spot


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

How to increase joint strength ? besides from lifting heavy ?

Is there anything else that can help getting stronger joints & bones ? so the person can maybe in the future lift really heavy loads even if he has a small frame/bones from his genetics?


----------



## RedStar

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How to increase joint strength ? besides from lifting heavy ?
> 
> Is there anything else that can help getting stronger joints & bones ? so the person can maybe in the future lift really heavy loads even if he has a small frame/bones from his genetics?


 Just gonna chip in and say.mobility work will help massively. I wish I had started it sooner rather than later. A healthy mobile.joint is going to allow for bigger losds to be lifted.


----------



## Baka

RedStar said:


> Just gonna chip in and say.mobility work will help massively. I wish I had started it sooner rather than later. A healthy mobile.joint is going to allow for bigger losds to be lifted.


 i do shoulder mobility everyday , wrist too.

Not much for legs tho

For example while I weighted dips +100kg , I shake so much I'm scared to injure myself. my goal is to get to +140kg weighted dip in the next 2 years but my wrist are so small and it shakes badly


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How to increase joint strength ? besides from lifting heavy ?
> 
> Is there anything else that can help getting stronger joints & bones ? so the person can maybe in the future lift really heavy loads even if he has a small frame/bones from his genetics?


 Heavy lifting will do it, as long as you give the joints and connective tissues time to strengthen. People who move up in weight get injured because muscle recovers and adapts faster than the other tissues, especially when taking AAS.

Small frame/bones has nothing to do with it, get strong as f**k and your muscle will support your frame in lifting very heavy weights.


----------



## ElChapo

RedStar said:


> Just gonna chip in and say.mobility work will help massively. I wish I had started it sooner rather than later. A healthy mobile.joint is going to allow for bigger losds to be lifted.


 I agree with this, a strong AND flexible joint has the least possible risk of injury.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> i do shoulder mobility everyday , wrist too.
> 
> Not much for legs tho
> 
> For example while I weighted dips +100kg , I shake so much I'm scared to injure myself. my goal is to get to +140kg weighted dip in the next 2 years but my wrist are so small and it shakes badly


 Build up to it slower, stay in the 8-12 range, with good ROM. Slowly add weight as often as you can without sacrificing good form and ROM. You can attain 140 kg dips, especially if you are fairly lean and not carrying extra fat on yourself.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Small frame/bones has nothing to do with it, get strong as f**k and your muscle will support your frame in lifting very heavy weights.


 Is there any real advantages in having so? more often than not, the most aesthetically pleasing bodybuilders all started skinny.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I'm going to get some TUDCA , is 200mg / day enough ? I'd like to take for 30 days.

I'm already taking 1200mg NAC / day all year round.

I'm thinking of taking TUDCA because my liver enzymes are high , and I was thinking in the future of testing 10mg Halotestin pre w , 2-3 times a week and I know that Halo is really toxic.

Should I take more then 200mg / day to help reduce liver enzymes?


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Currently using 600mg test e split twice weekly so 300 mon/Thurs with 0.5 adex after each jab 1mg in total. Ive started to get a burning sensation behind left nipple, what would be the best protocol shall i increase ai dose to 0.75 after each jab in the nights as i jab in the evenings after work or switch to 0.5 Mon/wed/Fri mornings?

Or would you recommend keeping ai at 0.5 after each 300 jab and add nolva at 20mg everyday instead? Il be getting bloods in 4 weeks as im only in week 1 of 600mg, cruised on 150 test e before this.

Cheers.


----------



## SlinMeister

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm going to get some TUDCA , is 200mg / day enough ? I'd like to take for 30 days.
> 
> I'm already taking 1200mg NAC / day all year round.
> 
> I'm thinking of taking TUDCA because my liver enzymes are high , and I was thinking in the future of testing 10mg Halotestin pre w , 2-3 times a week and I know that Halo is really toxic.
> 
> Should I take more then 200mg / day to help reduce liver enzymes?


 Depends how much "high". AST ALT are.

I have never had less than 60-80.

It's just because we workout a lot.

Check for GGT and Bilirubine for real liver damage.

If you really need something that gives you a TON of strength use 40mg RAD140 1h prewo, it will blow Halo away and it's not toxic at all.

I benched 20% more just with that today.... it's insane.

You can but it from https://enhancedathlete-europe.com/product/testolone-rad-140/ or https://biochem.is/product/rad140/

I don't trust sarms much but damn, this works!!


----------



## Baka

SlinMeister said:


> Depends how much "high". AST ALT are.
> 
> I have never had less than 60-80.
> 
> It's just because we workout a lot.
> 
> Check for GGT and Bilirubine for real liver damage.
> 
> If you really need something that gives you a TON of strength use 40mg RAD140 1h prewo, it will blow Halo away and it's not toxic at all.
> 
> I benched 20% more just with that today.... it's insane.
> 
> You can but it from https://enhancedathlete-europe.com/product/testolone-rad-140/ or https://biochem.is/product/rad140/
> 
> I don't trust sarms much but damn, this works!!


 thanks , but I won't use SARMS I'm already on test and I really don't think SARMs are worth it.

I've tried one years ago , was really bad and made my nipple itchy .


----------



## SlinMeister

Baka said:


> thanks , but I won't use SARMS I'm already on test and I really don't think SARMs are worth it.
> 
> I've tried one years ago , was really bad and made my nipple itchy .


 I completely understand you but for me 40mg RAD 140 were insane for strength.

If you had itchy nipples it wasn't a sarm from a trusted source.

Give it a try one day, you will be VERY VERY satisfied, imho it's the only SARM worth using.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Is there any real advantages in having so? more often than not, the most aesthetically pleasing bodybuilders all started skinny.


 Typically leads to a better V taper and more pronounced looking pop to the muscles when the waist and wrist are small. It may not be optimal for sheer mass and strength though. This won't matter for most trainees but may have an effect for elite competition.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm going to get some TUDCA , is 200mg / day enough ? I'd like to take for 30 days.
> 
> I'm already taking 1200mg NAC / day all year round.
> 
> I'm thinking of taking TUDCA because my liver enzymes are high , and I was thinking in the future of testing 10mg Halotestin pre w , 2-3 times a week and I know that Halo is really toxic.
> 
> Should I take more then 200mg / day to help reduce liver enzymes?


 250-500 mg per day for TUDCA.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> You never want Vitamin D levels over 80 ng/mL, this will stress out the kidneys and distort the balance of calcium and electrolytes in the blood. Increased calcification of the vascular system is also a concern.


 In this context does the high / toxic levels of vit D lead to very low levels of calcium,or super high levels of calcium. Interested in the context of ' distort the balance of calcium ' due to toxic high levels of vitamin D and how high vit D could lead possibly to greater risk of calcifacation of arteries, as I am sure I read a while back vit D, magnesium and K2 help keep calcium out the arteries.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Currently using 600mg test e split twice weekly so 300 mon/Thurs with 0.5 adex after each jab 1mg in total. Ive started to get a burning sensation behind left nipple, what would be the best protocol shall i increase ai dose to 0.75 after each jab in the nights as i jab in the evenings after work or switch to 0.5 Mon/wed/Fri mornings?
> 
> Or would you recommend keeping ai at 0.5 after each 300 jab and add nolva at 20mg everyday instead? Il be getting bloods in 4 weeks as im only in week 1 of 600mg, cruised on 150 test e before this.
> 
> Cheers.


 Nolva would be most effective. Bump the AI to 1.5-2 mg per week total, run nolva for 1-2 weeks just to cut down the gyno flare up.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> In this context does the high / toxic levels of vit D lead to very low levels of calcium,or super high levels of calcium. Interested in the context of ' distort the balance of calcium ' due to toxic high levels of vitamin D and how high vit D could lead possibly to greater risk of calcifacation of arteries, as I am sure I read a while back vit D, magnesium and K2 help keep calcium out the arteries.


 Usually increases calcium levels in the body, your kidneys need to work harder to excrete it. It greatly increases the risk of kidney stones.

You want to get enough mag and K2. K2 helps keep the calcium in the bones and not in the vascular system by activating osteocalcin and matrix gla proteins.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

what do you think of halo as a pre workout 2-3 times a week?

Would you advice it for someone who is aiming for strength gains ? or do you think it's not worth the toxicity/risk involved ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what do you think of halo as a pre workout 2-3 times a week?
> 
> Would you advice it for someone who is aiming for strength gains ? or do you think it's not worth the toxicity/risk involved ?


 Not worth it, tried it and wasn't impressed. It's one of the most expensive raw powders per gram.


----------



## Pancake'

Bit of a rookie question, but when tracking food intake, should you calculate the macros of meats cooked or non cooked? I always track the cooked weight personally.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Mate is that possible to permablast and not loose gains? Something like:

6w TestP PrimoE EQ

6w Sust TrenA NPP W

Repeat

Something like changing hormones and changing the dose of gear? Or just upping lowering the doses...

I have heard that Patrick Tuor puts people on 3w cycles ..... Like the one I wrote up there.

What do you think? What is the best way to keep growing all year long?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Bit of a rookie question, but when tracking food intake, should you calculate the macros of meats cooked or non cooked? I always track the cooked weight personally.


 I find it easiest to track uncooked, just make sure when you look it up, it says "raw". I find it more convenient to weigh out food while it's raw, before you added sauces, vegetables, etc into the mix.

Don't obsess over macros, just aim for minimum protein and target calorie intake. I suspect these instagram celebrities overglorify macro management to deceive the public that it's the secret to their gains, and not AAS/PEDs useage.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Mate is that possible to permablast and not loose gains? Something like:
> 
> 6w TestP PrimoE EQ
> 
> 6w Sust TrenA NPP W
> 
> Repeat
> 
> Something like changing hormones and changing the dose of gear? Or just upping lowering the doses...
> 
> I have heard that Patrick Tuor puts people on 3w cycles ..... Like the one I wrote up there.
> 
> What do you think? What is the best way to keep growing all year long?


 Why would you lose gains if you are perma blasting?

You mean, does the body get used to high levels of AAS where it would stop growing? Not really, you should take a break for health reasons, because you might get huge and look great, but if you stroke out in your 40s or 50s you lost the game.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Why would you lose gains if you are perma blasting?
> 
> You mean, does the body get used to high levels of AAS where it would stop growing? Not really, you should take a break for health reasons, because you might get huge and look great, but if you stroke out in your 40s or 50s you lost the game.


 I was thinking that after a while steroids stop working..... Some guys in my gym putted that into mind.

Since I will be hitting my 40s in 3y, then I think that will be better to lower the dose and cruise more.


----------



## 777

ElChapo said:


> Send me a PM


 I cant, it shows chap cannot receive messages.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Does a gyno painful when you push on it means it's new and reversible ?

I have a nipple that is painful when I lay on it or push on it , I m on raloxifene too since months and it's the same since months.

Does it mean it's reversible ? or every gyno even years later is painful if you push on it ?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I was thinking that after a while steroids stop working..... Some guys in my gym putted that into mind.
> 
> Since I will be hitting my 40s in 3y, then I think that will be better to lower the dose and cruise more.


 No, it's just that people use steroids as a crutch. Instead of increasing doses so often, they should be pushing the weights and reps up and making sure they eat enough calories.

The typical gym rat ups his total AAS dosage before he does either of those things. He relies on high AAS dose and the pump for gains, that's why these guys deflate off cycle and look like they don't lift when off AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

777 said:


> I cant, it shows chap cannot receive messages.


 My inbox must be full. I'll clear it.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Does a gyno painful when you push on it means it's new and reversible ?
> 
> I have a nipple that is painful when I lay on it or push on it , I m on raloxifene too since months and it's the same since months.
> 
> Does it mean it's reversible ? or every gyno even years later is painful if you push on it ?


 It's irrelevant. What i can tell you is that raloxifene and nolva have been proven to work on very old gyno, even pubertal.


----------



## zariph

Can you compare dbol vs anadrol please`?

Got the impression that anadrol is better than dbol in every aspect (strength, size(not bloat), side effects?

Whats your take on it? Also which one will have the most impact on lipids and liver?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can you compare dbol vs anadrol please`?
> 
> Got the impression that anadrol is better than dbol in every aspect (strength, size(not bloat), side effects?
> 
> Whats your take on it? Also which one will have the most impact on lipids and liver?
> 
> Thank you


 Would prefer anadrol over dbol. Dbol is gyno fuel, some people do great on it though. It can convert to potent estrogen isomers .

I'm a fan of dry gains so i lean to winstrol and sdrol for orals. Everyone responds differently too each compound.

Some people get crippling lethargy on sdrol and bad joint stiffness on winstrol.

I get gyno by looking at a bottle of dbol, i know people who run it and feel and look great.

You gotta find the compounds your body likes the best.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo how often do you train?

I know rest is very important but if you're splitting with push/pull /legs effectively you are resting, no?

Ive got myself into a habit of training most days now and not sure if it's a negative thing?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo how often do you train?
> 
> I know rest is very important but if you're splitting with push/pull /legs effectively you are resting, no?
> 
> Ive got myself into a habit of training most days now and not sure if it's a negative thing?


 When bulking or cutting , i like a full day of rest between training days.

You can train one day after the other but you should let the muscle group you trained the day before rest, and the problem is , alot of muscles are hit indirectly with many movements. If you are on AAS this is less of a problem than it is for a natural trainee. If am cutting i am to hit a muscle group once per week, twice per week when bulking, and three times per week when bulking a lagging body part.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> When bulking or cutting , i like a full day of rest between training days.
> 
> You can train one day after the other but you should let the muscle group you trained the day before rest, and the problem is , alot of muscles are hit indirectly with many movements. If you are on AAS this is less of a problem than it is for a natural trainee. If am cutting i am to hit a muscle group once per week, twice per week when bulking, and three times per week when bulking a lagging body part.


 about that , I'm training calves at home 6 times a week , 5-8 sets of 20-30 reps (bodyweight).
I've gained a lot of calves muscles this lasts months this way , but is it too much ? I'm on 250mg test E.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I was wondering if having high liver enzymes values , you could feel it ? for example lethargy or being irritable , cognition problems?

And for Lipids level , if your lipids levels are really bad from Anavar or Tren for exemple , it's bad for your overall health but do you feel it ? like lethargy or something ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> about that , I'm training calves at home 6 times a week , 5-8 sets of 20-30 reps (bodyweight).
> I've gained a lot of calves muscles this lasts months this way , but is it too much ? I'm on 250mg test E.


 You should be fine since the weight is light. The calves respond best to high volume in my experience.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I was wondering if having high liver enzymes values , you could feel it ? for example lethargy or being irritable , cognition problems?
> 
> And for Lipids level , if your lipids levels are really bad from Anavar or Tren for exemple , it's bad for your overall health but do you feel it ? like lethargy or something ?


 No, liver enzymes are a sign not a cause of anything. They can be high just from intense training. On their own, they are harmless.

You will never feel lipids, ever.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Must have for a long term AAS user in term of supplements ?

I'm thinking of :

-Citrus bergamot

-vitamin K2

-omega 3

-multi vitamin

and cardio

Is there other things really helpful in the longterm ? krill or ubiquinol ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Must have for a long term AAS user in term of supplements ?
> 
> I'm thinking of :
> 
> -Citrus bergamot
> 
> -vitamin K2
> 
> -omega 3
> 
> -multi vitamin
> 
> and cardio
> 
> Is there other things really helpful in the longterm ? krill or ubiquinol ?


 Cardio, K2, pycnogenol, curcumin.

Keep it simple. Multivitamin if diet is lacking.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Cardio, K2, pycnogenol, curcumin.
> 
> Keep it simple. Multivitamin if diet is lacking.


 Whats pycnogenol good for?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Whats pycnogenol good for?


 https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/


----------



## JohhnyC

I know you have discussed this before but are your thoughts still the same on "TRT for life" (i.e. balance of probabilities its positive for men >45yo e.g. me)

Without medical supervision what is the best way to go about it? Without blood tests how can one tell what dosage to use as everyone will metabolize test differently. Do we have a "rule of thumb". Is the distribution wide with large samples of healthy men in the +45yo category?

I almost certain I will never cycle again but still my test results are low 11 mmol/l and although my GP says this is within range, it is my view that the bottom of the range is not conducive to an active healthy lifestyle.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I'd like to buy a multivitamin for my mother , who smokes a lot unfortunately.

All of those good multivits god high doses of vitamin A , should I still buy her those ?

Some studies say vitamin A + smoking can lead to higher risk of lung cancer , some others say smoking leads to vitamin A depletion . so , what is real here?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/


 100mg / day good dose ? pretty expensive but I'll buy some


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> I know you have discussed this before but are your thoughts still the same on "TRT for life" (i.e. balance of probabilities its positive for men >45yo e.g. me)
> 
> Without medical supervision what is the best way to go about it? Without blood tests how can one tell what dosage to use as everyone will metabolize test differently. Do we have a "rule of thumb". Is the distribution wide with large samples of healthy men in the +45yo category?
> 
> I almost certain I will never cycle again but still my test results are low 11 mmol/l and although my GP says this is within range, it is my view that the bottom of the range is not conducive to an active healthy lifestyle.


 150 mg per week is a good starting dose. Most people need a little less, a little more, or just right at 150 mg per week. You're aiming for levels at 700-1,000 ng/dL or 24.3-34.7 ng/mL. You wanna keep E2, blood pressure and hematocrit in range.

There's is no way to tell what your target dose is without taking it and running labs.

https://www.testosteronewisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TRT-targets-large.jpg

WIth 11 nmol/L, if you have tried all life style changes ( good sleep, zinc and vitamin D supplementation, losing fat, lifting weights) and your levels are still there, i would seriously consider HRT. These low levels will pre-dispose you to heart disease and other health problems, and if you're symptomatic, your quality of life will suffer.

Most doctors are generally clueless, most do not stay up-to-date on the latest medical science and studies, they are too busy or just not interested. There are also lawsuits from scumbags who tried to link testosterone replacement with stroke and heart attack. So many MDs are hesitant to use testosterone now.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'd like to buy a multivitamin for my mother , who smokes a lot unfortunately.
> 
> All of those good multivits god high doses of vitamin A , should I still buy her those ?
> 
> Some studies say vitamin A + smoking can lead to higher risk of lung cancer , some others say smoking leads to vitamin A depletion . so , what is real here?


 My most recommended is Now foods True Balance, it contains the best forms of all the vitamins, well-priced and good doses. You can take half or full dose daily with food.

I wouldn't pay it mind, but really, try to get her off the cigarettes and on to e-cig or vaping. She will still get the nicotine without the cancer and COPD risk. Smoking is one of the top worst things you can do for your health. The other two being sedentary lifestyle and being obese.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> 100mg / day good dose ? pretty expensive but I'll buy some


 100 mg is what i recommend. Healthy origins brand has the best price.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> My most recommended is Now foods True Balance, it contains the best forms of all the vitamins, well-priced and good doses. You can take half or full dose daily with food.
> 
> I wouldn't pay it mind, but really, try to get her off the cigarettes and on to e-cig or vaping. She will still get the nicotine without the cancer and COPD risk. Smoking is one of the top worst things you can do for your health. The other two being sedentary lifestyle and being obese.


 we've tried for years to make her stop , we bought her a vaping too 2 years ago etc.

I don't think she s 100% ready to stop unfortunately , or maybe it's too hard idk.

I'll try more , and will buy her a multi vitamin/omega 3/vitamin C.

About pycnogenol , it would benefits everybody right ? not only AAS users or old people . I've read studies on it , it's much much more potent then other antioxidant


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> we've tried for years to make her stop , we bought her a vaping too 2 years ago etc.
> 
> I don't think she s 100% ready to stop unfortunately , or maybe it's too hard idk.
> 
> I'll try more , and will buy her a multi vitamin/omega 3/vitamin C.
> 
> About pycnogenol , it would benefits everybody right ? not only AAS users or old people . I've read studies on it , it's much much more potent then other antioxidant


 Sadly, she will pay for her dependence on cigarettes. A high percentage of patient's i deal with are COPD secondary to years of cigarette smoking.

Pycnogenol is a great overall supplement with many benefits. Powerful antioxidant and promotes good circulation.


----------



## zariph

Is it tru that you need to come off/lower dose because the body gets used to the gear you taking?

Will it be wise to switch gear every cycle so I dont get "used to it" or can I basically run same stuff every time?

Also when/who you think should use GH, is it only needed for pros and does it carry more side effects than the usual anabolic


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Is it tru that you need to come off/lower dose because the body gets used to the gear you taking?
> 
> Will it be wise to switch gear every cycle so I dont get "used to it" or can I basically run same stuff every time?
> 
> Also when/who you think should use GH, is it only needed for pros and does it carry more side effects than the usual anabolic


 Not true, all pros are on year round.

GH is overrated for most lifters.

GH is fairly mild and benign. High doses can cause pre-diabetic type state and carpal tunnel/water retention.

Generally, it's best use is for speeding up wound healing, anti-aging when IGF-1 levels are low, and for pros or bodybuilder that wanna get freaky size when combined with insulin.


----------



## Andro25

Hi @ElChapo,

1- I see you are a big fan of Winstrol, how do you compare it to Turinabol and Anavar?

May those two have some better benefice under some circumstances or do you consider Winstrol always better? Is this based on your experience or there are scientific reason that make Winstrol better?

2- I see the vitamin K2 mentioned a lot, what are the benefice for steroid users and when it has to be used?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Nolva would be most effective. Bump the AI to 1.5-2 mg per week total, run nolva for 1-2 weeks just to cut down the gyno flare up.


 Started my ai at 1.5mg a week in total this week and switched to 0.5 Mon/wed/Fri starting today. Thinking of dropping the test dosage from 600-300 after this week if symtoms dont get better, My libido has dropped to non existent, erections are soft, morning erections are solid but it doesn't last long like they normally would, feeling lethargic and dont feel like eating or training at all, also get easily irrated, and my symptoms are similar to both high and low e2 which is sending my anxiety through the roof and theres so many different sites online where the symptoms are the same. Is it worth getting bloods 2 weeks into blast of 600mg test to see whats going on or wait until adex kicks in properly and keep playing about with the dosages until the 5 week mark then get bloods?? thinking of dropping back to my cruise dose of 150mg where i had none of these problems and just cruise and bulk and cut on that dose instead and chuck an oral in here and there, where i felt amazing mood was high, all good general feeling, and at it 2-3 times a day where im lucky to get it once a day at the moment haha. its got to the point where i dont know if i have now crashed my e2 or its still high, my anxiety has risen to the point of packing it all in too, the reason i got anxiety is for this reason where it happened 2 years ago and i came off totally but i felt good on cruise dose this year so if i do il be going back to cruise unless you can suggest a protocol i could follow

What would you suggest, is there any sites you recommend with listed high/low e2 that you follow?

Cheers mate


----------



## Baka

Lloyd H said:


> Started my ai at 1.5mg a week in total this week and switched to 0.5 Mon/wed/Fri starting today. Thinking of dropping the test dosage from 600-300 after this week if symtoms dont get better, My libido has dropped to non existent, erections are soft, morning erections are solid but it doesn't last long like they normally would, feeling lethargic and dont feel like eating or training at all, also get easily irrated, and my symptoms are similar to both high and low e2 which is sending my anxiety through the roof and theres so many different sites online where the symptoms are the same. Is it worth getting bloods 2 weeks into blast of 600mg test to see whats going on or wait until adex kicks in properly and keep playing about with the dosages until the 5 week mark then get bloods?? thinking of dropping back to my cruise dose of 150mg where i had none of these problems and just cruise and bulk and cut on that dose instead and chuck an oral in here and there, where i felt amazing mood was high, all good general feeling, and at it 2-3 times a day where im lucky to get it once a day at the moment haha. its got to the point where i dont know if i have now crashed my e2 or its still high, my anxiety has risen to the point of packing it all in too, the reason i got anxiety is for this reason where it happened 2 years ago and i came off totally but i felt good on cruise dose this year so if i do il be going back to cruise unless you can suggest a protocol i could follow
> 
> What would you suggest, is there any sites you recommend with listed high/low e2 that you follow?
> 
> Cheers mate


 you have low E2 , surely high progesterone

morning wood , lethargy , no hunger , irritability , no libido , anxiety = LOW E2.

To me high E2 = crying for nothing , crave food and sugar , brain fogs , feeling bitchy a little , bad erections , no morning wood at all


----------



## Rob27

Baka said:


> you have low E2 , surely high progesterone
> 
> morning wood , lethargy , no hunger , irritability , no libido , anxiety = LOW E2.
> 
> To me high E2 = crying for nothing , crave food and sugar , brain fogs , feeling bitchy a little , bad erections , no morning wood at all


 Thank you for the reply baka. I think il drop my ai this week and see what happens towards end of the week. The only reason i upped my ai was because of burning sensation behind nipples few days after my 600mg pin last week i was originally taking 0.5 after my jabs on a Mon/Thurs (300 mg twice a week) then 0.5 on the Monday and Thursday. Originally i thought i was sensitive to e2, the morning wood are not the best and when i get it up it goes soft, libido is not the best either, what would you suggest, drop the ai, do you think a week would be enough then if circumstances dont Change does that mean my e2 is high and i should re introduce ai? I always thought i could read my body, but when this happens it sends my anxiety through the roof. Thank you.


----------



## Baka

Lloyd H said:


> Thank you for the reply baka. I think il drop my ai this week and see what happens towards end of the week. The only reason i upped my ai was because of burning sensation behind nipples few days after my 600mg pin last week i was originally taking 0.5 after my jabs on a Mon/Thurs (300 mg twice a week) then 0.5 on the Monday and Thursday. Originally i thought i was sensitive to e2, the morning wood are not the best and when i get it up it goes soft, libido is not the best either, what would you suggest, drop the ai, do you think a week would be enough then if circumstances dont Change does that mean my e2 is high and i should re introduce ai? I always thought i could read my body, but when this happens it sends my anxiety through the roof. Thank you.


 stop the AI , keep taking nolva.

It happened to me too , I had gyno growth years ago and I started letro + nolva and I was panicking because even 1 week taking letro+nolva I still had some pain in the nipples , even tho my E2 was already crashed. it can be hard to understand but now I know my body well.

If you crash your E2 you may have high progesterone (low E2 gives high progesterone , it's a balance ) and high progesterone can give gyno too or nipple sensitivity .

So , stop the AI and let your E2 get to normal levels . nolvadex should take care of it


----------



## Rob27

Baka said:


> stop the AI , keep taking nolva.
> 
> It happened to me too , I had gyno growth years ago and I started letro + nolva and I was panicking because even 1 week taking letro+nolva I still had some pain in the nipples , even tho my E2 was already crashed. it can be hard to understand but now I know my body well.
> 
> If you crash your E2 you may have high progesterone (low E2 gives high progesterone , it's a balance ) and high progesterone can give gyno too or nipple sensitivity .
> 
> So , stop the AI and let your E2 get to normal levels . nolvadex should take care of it


 Brilliant, thank you baka, i will give it a go and see If symptoms get better and il report back in a week or 2, thanks again.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo

Can I cook tap water in a pressure cooker and put it into an empty bac water vial and use this for reconstituting HGH (for immediate use)? any problems with this. ive ran out of bac water


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Can I cook tap water in a pressure cooker and put it into an empty bac water vial and use this for reconstituting HGH (for immediate use)? any problems with this. ive ran out of bac water


 Bac water also increases the shelf life. You can make your own bac water. Just google how to make it. It's just Benzyl Alcohol and water.

You can use regular water, preferably medical saline water.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> Hi @ElChapo,
> 
> 1- I see you are a big fan of Winstrol, how do you compare it to Turinabol and Anavar?
> 
> May those two have some better benefice under some circumstances or do you consider Winstrol always better? Is this based on your experience or there are scientific reason that make Winstrol better?
> 
> 2- I see the vitamin K2 mentioned a lot, what are the benefice for steroid users and when it has to be used?


 1- Stronger than both, cheaper and easier to obtain. More strength, more dryness, more lean tissue building.

Always better generally, unless you get joint sides from winstrol. Anavar is less virilizing than winstrol, so it's good for females.

2- Vitamin K2 helps prevent calcification and atherosclerotic plaque development in the veins/arteries. AAS users are at greater risk that average population due to AAS effects on the cardiovascular system and reduction in HDL cholesterol. Vitamin K2 is found in natto (japanese delicacy ; fermented soy beans) and foie gras and aged cheeses. Most people don't eat this stuff so they don't get enough K2 from their diet. It's a fairly cheap and very effective supplement. Some studies show it can even reverse arterial calcification which is extremely impressive. A good dose is 100 mcg vitamin K2 (mk7 form) with a fatty meal for optimal absorption.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Started my ai at 1.5mg a week in total this week and switched to 0.5 Mon/wed/Fri starting today. Thinking of dropping the test dosage from 600-300 after this week if symtoms dont get better, My libido has dropped to non existent, erections are soft, morning erections are solid but it doesn't last long like they normally would, feeling lethargic and dont feel like eating or training at all, also get easily irrated, and my symptoms are similar to both high and low e2 which is sending my anxiety through the roof and theres so many different sites online where the symptoms are the same. Is it worth getting bloods 2 weeks into blast of 600mg test to see whats going on or wait until adex kicks in properly and keep playing about with the dosages until the 5 week mark then get bloods?? thinking of dropping back to my cruise dose of 150mg where i had none of these problems and just cruise and bulk and cut on that dose instead and chuck an oral in here and there, where i felt amazing mood was high, all good general feeling, and at it 2-3 times a day where im lucky to get it once a day at the moment haha. its got to the point where i dont know if i have now crashed my e2 or its still high, my anxiety has risen to the point of packing it all in too, the reason i got anxiety is for this reason where it happened 2 years ago and i came off totally but i felt good on cruise dose this year so if i do il be going back to cruise unless you can suggest a protocol i could follow
> 
> What would you suggest, is there any sites you recommend with listed high/low e2 that you follow?
> 
> Cheers mate


 Give it time. Your questions depends on what is most important to you, continuing the cycle or feeling better? I would give it a week at 1.5 mg or bump to 2 mg. I doubt you have low E2 on legit 600 mg test.

It's always good to get labs at least once when running a test base cycle so you know what your numbers look like. I suspect you have high E2, generally, i feel irritated easily when E2 is high, and feel more apathetic/emotionless with low E2.

Sometimes the high testosterone levels themselves can make people irritable/anxious independent of E2 as well. I would give it one last shot at 1.5-2 mg for another week and if that doesn't work, stick to lower test for next cycle as it doesn't seem to agree with you (once you rule out E2 being the problem)


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Not true, all pros are on year round.
> 
> GH is overrated for most lifters.
> 
> GH is fairly mild and benign. High doses can cause pre-diabetic type state and carpal tunnel/water retention.
> 
> Generally, it's best use is for speeding up wound healing, anti-aging when IGF-1 levels are low, and for pros or bodybuilder that wanna get freaky size when combined with insulin.


 Ah I see, so Gh is mainly used because of the use of insulin for bodybuilders?

Whole other question - if I have 200mg ampoule but only need 100mg EOD, can I draw half into syringe and let it stay in syringe for some days or will bacteria start to grow in it? Is there anything else I can do to save the rest 100mg of gear? thxc


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Give it time. Your questions depends on what is most important to you, continuing the cycle or feeling better? I would give it a week at 1.5 mg or bump to 2 mg. I doubt you have low E2 on legit 600 mg test.
> 
> It's always good to get labs at least once when running a test base cycle so you know what your numbers look like. I suspect you have high E2, generally, i feel irritated easily when E2 is high, and feel more apathetic/emotionless with low E2.
> 
> Sometimes the high testosterone levels themselves can make people irritable/anxious independent of E2 as well. I would give it one last shot at 1.5-2 mg for another week and if that doesn't work, stick to lower test for next cycle as it doesn't seem to agree with you (once you rule out E2 being the problem)


 My question is related to the e2 problem, the cycle will be definitely cut short if that the case as sexual function means mote than a 600mg test cycle lol thsts the one side i didn't want. I was fine on 150 cruise dose of test. Best I've ever felt as my top natural test was only 13.1 which was poor and your advice was that i had test levels of 70 year old that why i decided to jump on low dose test and stay on trt for indefinite.

Id like to carry on the cycle as i done a 600mg test cycle 2 years ago and didn't have an issue with e2 until the end, its the other way around this time and its at the start.

I think its definitely a e2 problem and nothing to do with the test. Would you advise bloods this early into the cycle or wait until week 4-5? Or would you suggest what baka said, leave out the ai but use nolva and see if symptoms are still there in a week or 2? how long would you notice that adex working if e2 is high?


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on supplementing with plant sterols for the gear user that suffers mostly with lipid profile health

This is always the health markers that takes the biggest hit for me and takes the longest to recover

Here's some bloodwork of mine from 2 months post cycle (TTM and anadrol)

TRIGLYCERIDES 0.87 mmol/L 0.00 - 2.30

CHOLESTEROL 2.69 mmol/L 0.00 - 4.99

HDL CHOLESTEROL *0.83 mmol/L 0.90 - 1.50

LDL CHOLESTEROL 1.46 mmol/L 0.00 - 3.00

NON-HDL CHOLESTEROL 1.86 mmol/L 0.00 - 3.89

as you can see lipid profile isnt great when considering the time frame I'd been cruising however total cholesterol is fine which I attribute to my year round plant sterols supplementation


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Ah I see, so Gh is mainly used because of the use of insulin for bodybuilders?
> 
> Whole other question - if I have 200mg ampoule but only need 100mg EOD, can I draw half into syringe and let it stay in syringe for some days or will bacteria start to grow in it? Is there anything else I can do to save the rest 100mg of gear? thxc


 You can leave it in the syringe, it will be safe, especially for that amount of time. HRT clinics regularly pre-fill up to a month supply of injections for patients, this is also done for diabetic patient's on insulin.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> My question is related to the e2 problem, the cycle will be definitely cut short if that the case as sexual function means mote than a 600mg test cycle lol thsts the one side i didn't want. I was fine on 150 cruise dose of test. Best I've ever felt as my top natural test was only 13.1 which was poor and your advice was that i had test levels of 70 year old that why i decided to jump on low dose test and stay on trt for indefinite.
> 
> Id like to carry on the cycle as i done a 600mg test cycle 2 years ago and didn't have an issue with e2 until the end, its the other way around this time and its at the start.
> 
> I think its definitely a e2 problem and nothing to do with the test. Would you advise bloods this early into the cycle or wait until week 4-5? Or would you suggest what baka said, leave out the ai but use nolva and see if symptoms are still there in a week or 2? how long would you notice that adex working if e2 is high?


 I suggest giving 1.5 mg a little more time and even try 2 mg if 1.5 mg doesn't work. Your symptoms sound like what i get with high E2 and most people will have high E2 levels on 600 mg.

Adex should start working after a week, sometimes a little sooner.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on supplementing with plant sterols for the gear user that suffers mostly with lipid profile health
> 
> This is always the health markers that takes the biggest hit for me and takes the longest to recover
> 
> Here's some bloodwork of mine from 2 months post cycle (TTM and anadrol)
> 
> TRIGLYCERIDES 0.87 mmol/L 0.00 - 2.30
> 
> CHOLESTEROL 2.69 mmol/L 0.00 - 4.99
> 
> HDL CHOLESTEROL *0.83 mmol/L 0.90 - 1.50
> 
> LDL CHOLESTEROL 1.46 mmol/L 0.00 - 3.00
> 
> NON-HDL CHOLESTEROL 1.86 mmol/L 0.00 - 3.89
> 
> as you can see lipid profile isnt great when considering the time frame I'd been cruising however total cholesterol is fine which I attribute to my year round plant sterols supplementation


 They can't hurt, i wouldn't worry about acute changes in lipid levels. As long as your lipids aren't cooked 24/7, 365 days of the year even then, lipids are only a part of the heart disease picture. Staying lean year round and doing regular cardio are more important by far.

You can always do imaging every couple of years to look at how much calcification you have in the cardiovascular system. This imaging can also show you narrowing of the blood vessels and structural changes to the heart.

Those three things (calcification, narrowing/stiffness and heart structure changes) will be things AAS users have to worry about beside high BP/hematocrit which also increase the risk of stroke/heart attack.


----------



## zariph

If some1 squeeze nipples and lactates a little, does this means high prolactin? Does it make it better or worse to squeeze it? What would you do about it


----------



## Baka

zariph said:


> If some1 squeeze nipples and lactates a little, does this means high prolactin? Does it make it better or worse to squeeze it? What would you do about it


 yes high prolactin , and the more you squeeze it the worst it get . squeezing the nipples give your body a signal to increase prolactin levels

I'm sorry if I reply before @ElChapo , I should let him reply since it's his thread


----------



## zariph

Baka said:


> yes high prolactin , and the more you squeeze it the worst it get . squeezing the nipples give your body a signal to increase prolactin levels
> 
> I'm sorry if I reply before @ElChapo , I should let him reply since it's his thread


 Can this be solved with adex+tamox or is caber needed?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> If some1 squeeze nipples and lactates a little, does this means high prolactin? Does it make it better or worse to squeeze it? What would you do about it


 Stop squeezing your nipples.

If you suspect high prolactin, get labwork. Are you running any AAS?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can this be solved with adex+tamox or is caber needed?


 You need to find the source of the high prolactin, most common being AAS or prolactinoma (tumour that secretes prolactin)

Cabergoline is only a temporary fix, tamoxifene would shrink gyno if you have any. Adex won't do anything.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You need to find the source of the high prolactin, most common being AAS or prolactinoma (tumour that secretes prolactin)
> 
> Cabergoline is only a temporary fix, tamoxifene would shrink gyno if you have any. Adex won't do anything.





ElChapo said:


> Stop squeezing your nipples.
> 
> If you suspect high prolactin, get labwork. Are you running any AAS?


 Thx yes on npp+test atm upped the npp the last two weeks so might be prolactin issue? What would you do to combat it?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx yes on npp+test atm upped the npp the last two weeks so might be prolactin issue? What would you do to combat it?


 two choices:

1. Finish up the cycle. How many weeks you got left?

2. Drop NPP, run nolva or ralox 6-8 weeks if you have gyno.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Hi @El Chapo

Can cardio reverse the cardiac remodelling that AAS and in particular deca is known for?

Or is it a case of once it happens that's it for life?

Thanks


----------



## JohhnyC

ElChapo said:


> 150 mg per week is a good starting dose. Most people need a little less, a little more, or just right at 150 mg per week. You're aiming for levels at 700-1,000 ng/dL or 24.3-34.7 ng/mL. You wanna keep E2, blood pressure and hematocrit in range.
> 
> There's is no way to tell what your target dose is without taking it and running labs.
> 
> https://www.testosteronewisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TRT-targets-large.jpg
> 
> WIth 11 nmol/L, if you have tried all life style changes ( good sleep, zinc and vitamin D supplementation, losing fat, lifting weights) and your levels are still there, i would seriously consider HRT. These low levels will pre-dispose you to heart disease and other health problems, and if you're symptomatic, your quality of life will suffer.
> 
> Most doctors are generally clueless, most do not stay up-to-date on the latest medical science and studies, *they are too busy or just not interested.* There are also lawsuits from scumbags who tried to link testosterone replacement with stroke and heart attack. So many MDs are hesitant to use testosterone now.


 thanks man!

I think the bit in bold sums up this side of the world. Its not seen as a satisfactory reason, just trudging along in life is the norm, even under private care


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> Can cardio reverse the cardiac remodelling that AAS and in particular deca is known for?
> 
> Or is it a case of once it happens that's it for life?
> 
> Thanks


 To an extent, it can mitigate some of the negative effects like hardening and stiffening of the arteries and plaque build up.

Structural changes are reversible, if you extrapolate from the studies where athlete's heart structure went back to normal after discontinuing exercise.


----------



## ElChapo

JohhnyC said:


> thanks man!
> 
> I think the bit in bold sums up this side of the world. Its not seen as a satisfactory reason, just trudging along in life is the norm, even under private care


 Yeah, most people will do as little work as possible to just get by. You need to seek out the doctor that goes above and beyond his calling, truly cares about his patient's, and has a sharp and inquisitive mind. This is the ideal physician, and they are out there, but only make up to about 15% of the total MD population at best. People need to stop settling with these average doctors.

Problem is people assume, MD after a name makes someone qualified, smart, and effective. This is not true. There's a saying "What do you call a doctor that graduate last in his class? You call him doctor".


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> two choices:
> 
> 1. Finish up the cycle. How many weeks you got left?
> 
> 2. Drop NPP, run nolva or ralox 6-8 weeks if you have gyno.


 Had to finnish the cycle now anyway - so what to do now? Should I use caber or anything or will it all solve it self?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Had to finnish the cycle now anyway - so what to do now? Should I use caber or anything or will it all solve it self?


 Will go away once you drop it. Again, the choice is up to you. Myself, i would finish the cycle, that's just me. I would ignore it and not use caber, but if you have it on hand, go ahead and use it.


----------



## TITO

Hi @El Chapo

I've been cruising for past 4 months and I'm gonna carry on cruising for at least another year. I do weights 2-3 times a week, bjj at least 5xp/w and extra cardio

I supplement the following;

Omega 3

Magnesium citrate

d3

k2

zinc

multi vit

Turmeric curcumin and black pepper

b3 nicotinamide

pro biotic

sometimes i I think the amount of above supps are over kill but want to keep them in for future health etc, is there any that you would get rid off?

Cheers


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Will go away once you drop it. Again, the choice is up to you. Myself, i would finish the cycle, that's just me. I would ignore it and not use caber, but if you have it on hand, go ahead and use it.


 Okay but should I use tamox when I end the cycle? Or will the gyno symptoms disappear too?


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> I've been cruising for past 4 months and I'm gonna carry on cruising for at least another year. I do weights 2-3 times a week, bjj at least 5xp/w and extra cardio
> 
> I supplement the following;
> 
> Omega 3
> 
> Magnesium citrate
> 
> d3
> 
> k2
> 
> zinc
> 
> multi vit
> 
> Turmeric curcumin and black pepper
> 
> b3 nicotinamide
> 
> pro biotic
> 
> sometimes i I think the amount of above supps are over kill but want to keep them in for future health etc, is there any that you would get rid off?
> 
> Cheers


 Drop the B3 and probiotic.

If you get a lot of sun, drop the D3. If you eat meat daily, drop the zinc.

Drop the black pepper and switch to Meriva curcumin. It doesnt need black pepper/piperine for absorption.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay but should I use tamox when I end the cycle? Or will the gyno symptoms disappear too?


 If there is gyno, run tamoxifene for 4-12 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay but should I use tamox when I end the cycle? Or will the gyno symptoms disappear too?


 The gyno likely won't go away on it's own. Sometimes it can.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Could you run an oral much longer if you take TUDCA with it ? or the danger isn't liver toxicity but more cholesterol/blood pressure/hematocrit ?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Drop the B3 and probiotic.
> 
> If you get a lot of sun, drop the D3. If you eat meat daily, drop the zinc.
> 
> Drop the black pepper and switch to Meriva curcumin. It doesnt need black pepper/piperine for absorption.


 This one?

https://dk.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research-Meriva-500-SF-60-Capsules/68447?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmcmRsha-cWp4KbOZ1fYvRO7Fa5S-zqVwmTCFI3UeuP5DOJTWSf3czkaAqoZEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

So you still get all the great benefits from curcumin from this brand, despite the lack of black pepper? Like the anti inflammation


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Could you run an oral much longer if you take TUDCA with it ? or the danger isn't liver toxicity but more cholesterol/blood pressure/hematocrit ?


 Yes, TUDCA prevent cholestasis from happening as easily. This is the main mechanism behind liver toxicity of oral AAS.

Cholesterol/BP/Hematocrit are not a big deal short term. They can cause problems when chronically elevated. Even liver toxicity is transient, you don't have to worry unless you run orals year round, taking high doses, or mixing with alcohol and other liver toxic medications/drugs.


----------



## pma111

Do type 2 diabetics have any major differences in tdee to non diabetics. Or do they only gain weight if they eat over and above their suggested maintenance calories like the rest of us. Can they gain weight even if at maintenance or lower due to insulin or is that just an excuse and in terms of cals in vs out they are at no more of a disadvantage to non diabetics and the same principles apply. Or does a type 2 diabetic need an even greater calorific deficit to a non diabetic to lose weight.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> This one?
> 
> https://dk.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research-Meriva-500-SF-60-Capsules/68447?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-tXlBRDWARIsAGYQAmcmRsha-cWp4KbOZ1fYvRO7Fa5S-zqVwmTCFI3UeuP5DOJTWSf3czkaAqoZEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> So you still get all the great benefits from curcumin from this brand, despite the lack of black pepper? Like the anti inflammation


 That one is really expensive for no reason. Jarrow has the same ingredient for a better price. You can get it on amazon.

Yeah, the issue with black pepper is that it will increase the absorption of other medications, drugs and supplements. With Meriva, you dont need piperine/black pepper for absorption.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Do type 2 diabetics have any major differences in tdee to non diabetics. Or do they only gain wait if they eat over and above their suggested maintenance calories. Can they gain weight even if at maintenance or lower due to insulin or is that just an excuse and if terms of cals in vs out they are at no more of a disadvantage to non diabetics.


 Cals in/cals out, they might have more fat accretion in a surplus than muscle but calories is 100% of the equation.

I have seen extreme diabetics suffer from cachexia since their body tries to breakdown muscle for energy since their cells aren't getting any insulin.


----------



## pma111

Is the 30mg zinc in 2x2/day now foods true balance a decent dose for most people/optimum natural testosterone production, or is it worth bumping it up to 50mg per day for best results.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is the 30mg zinc in 2x2/day now foods true balance a decent dose for most people/optimum natural testosterone production, or is it worth bumping it up to 50mg per day for best results.


 Most people will get at least 10 mg just from meat and food alone. The 30 mg from the multi should cover most people easily.

Too much zinc will lead to copper deficiency.


----------



## Doitagain

@El Chapo

What's the minimum daily dietary fat intake not to get ill (for a felle in TRT, in case it matters)?


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What's the minimum daily dietary fat intake not to get ill (for a felle in TRT, in case it matters)?


 Most people get the trace amount of fat they need, all food, even bread, has some fat in it.

The number i've seen thrown around for optimal testosterone levels (natural) is 50 g per day.

Fat is the least important macronutrient, and there's an obsession with "healthy fats" in the recent bodybuilding fad universe that is unfounded. ( people drinking tablespoons of olive oil, etc )


----------



## Jonk891

Does Bpc-157 need to be injected near the injury site or can the results been the same if its injected in to the skin on the stomach


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-what could cause brain fogs , lost of clear coordinations , tired eyes ?

I was thinking of unbalanced E2 , or bad anxiety or brain inflammation ?

How would you reduce brain inflammation ? I know vitamin C 2g a day helps , I remember the first weeks of. taking It I had less anxiety while I was facking anxious moments , I'm sure it's from less inflammations , still taking it but since some months I have brain fogs/bad coordinations.

I'm already taking a lot of healthy supplements and doing cardio , the only bad thing I'm taking is test but I aint overdosing it neither.


----------



## zariph

Do people see any difference using npp vs deca? If I can get deca for half the price of npp and cycle going to be long anyway, will I see any difference whether using one or the other?

Tren a everyday? EOD seems to be to much time between each shot on steroidcal


----------



## Malin

ElChapo said:


> Most people get the trace amount of fat they need, all food, even bread, has some fat in it.
> 
> The number i've seen thrown around for optimal testosterone levels (natural) is 50 g per day.
> 
> Fat is the least important macronutrient, and there's an obsession with "healthy fats" in the recent bodybuilding fad universe that is unfounded. ( people drinking tablespoons of olive oil, etc )


 Interesting, is there nothing wrong with consuming low levels of fats long term, talking about 30g or so daily?


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Does Bpc-157 need to be injected near the injury site or can the results been the same if its injected in to the skin on the stomach


 IT appears to have system affects. There needs to be more research in humans.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -what could cause brain fogs , lost of clear coordinations , tired eyes ?
> 
> I was thinking of unbalanced E2 , or bad anxiety or brain inflammation ?
> 
> How would you reduce brain inflammation ? I know vitamin C 2g a day helps , I remember the first weeks of. taking It I had less anxiety while I was facking anxious moments , I'm sure it's from less inflammations , still taking it but since some months I have brain fogs/bad coordinations.
> 
> I'm already taking a lot of healthy supplements and doing cardio , the only bad thing I'm taking is test but I aint overdosing it neither.


 That question is too broad, could be anything. Lack of sleep, depression, thyroid issues, genetics.

Curcumin is a potent anti-inflammatory, cocoa and pycnogneol also show some efficacy.

Get your E2 level checked if you suspect it's high or low. Vitamin C doesn't really affect inflammation. There are some studies showing it may lower cortisol/prolactin.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Do people see any difference using npp vs deca? If I can get deca for half the price of npp and cycle going to be long anyway, will I see any difference whether using one or the other?
> 
> Tren a everyday? EOD seems to be to much time between each shot on steroidcal


 NPP kicks in 1-2 weeks. Deca will take 3-4 weeks for most people. If you get deca dick or gyno, the deca will be in your system for quite a bit before it's cleared from the blood.

NPP is much dryer/less water retention. Nobody knows why short esters cause less water retention, they just do. It's once those broscience things that's just true.

I take Tren ace twice a week with no problems, i have also done monday/wednesday/friday which i think is the best balance between convenience and stability. You don't need steroid levels to be constant in the blood, the spikes create gene expression changes that last even after the levels drop down to very low.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Interesting, is there nothing wrong with consuming low levels of fats long term, talking about 30g or so daily?


 30 gram daily is more than enough.


----------



## SoberHans

Seen a lot of people who lift seem to take a lot of vitamin C, a lot around 3g a day.

Is it worth supplementing Vitamin C and if so how much is optimal?

Thanks


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> IT appears to have system affects. There needs to be more research in humans.


 So it's best to go with near the site ?


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> You don't need steroid levels to be constant in the blood, the spikes create gene expression changes that last even after the levels drop down to very low.


 Interesting you say that @ElChapo I remember dan duchaine advocating orals to be dosed once per day because he believed the higher dose rather than spreading it over 2 or 3 doses over the day created a bigger igf spike etc and gave the liver a rest for the rest of the day. Ever since reading that probably 16 or 17 years ago I changed to once per day (1st thing in the morning on non workout days and about an hour pre workout on those days)


----------



## Big Ian

Jonk891 said:


> Does Bpc-157 need to be injected near the injury site or can the results been the same if its injected in to the skin on the stomach


 Personally I've not seen a difference between the two methods mate


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Seen a lot of people who lift seem to take a lot of vitamin C, a lot around 3g a day.
> 
> Is it worth supplementing Vitamin C and if so how much is optimal?
> 
> Thanks


 It's an overrated supplement, 1 gram daily is more than enough, what you don't absorb you will piss out.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Big Ian said:


> Personally I've not seen a difference between the two methods mate


 When injecting close to my ankle I felt it in my injured elbow and wrist.

Absolutely systemic.

Now is it BOTH systemic and local? I think it might be..


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> So it's best to go with near the site ?


 No, it doesn't matter from looking at the literature.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Interesting you say that @ElChapo I remember dan duchaine advocating orals to be dosed once per day because he believed the higher dose rather than spreading it over 2 or 3 doses over the day created a bigger igf spike etc and gave the liver a rest for the rest of the day. Ever since reading that probably 16 or 17 years ago I changed to once per day (1st thing in the morning on non workout days and about an hour pre workout on those days)


 Yeah, there is no benefit to dosing multiple times or higher frequency. Your example explains it best, orals have a very very short half-life of a few hours, yet they work for much longer.

The same concept can be applied to injectables. I have had zero issues getting results from dosing tren ace or test prop x 2-3 times per week. I have never, ever done daily injections for anything. I would only do this if running GH for anti-aging purposes.


----------



## Jonk891

Big Ian said:


> Personally I've not seen a difference between the two methods mate


 I was just thinking as I have multiple injuries that it would be easier to just put it in the stomach if it will work throughout the body that way. Plans are 250mcg x 2 daily for 40 days and see how it goes


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> Most people get the trace amount of fat they need, all food, even bread, has some fat in it.
> 
> The number i've seen thrown around for optimal testosterone levels (natural) is 50 g per day.
> 
> Fat is the least important macronutrient, and there's an obsession with "healthy fats" in the recent bodybuilding fad universe that is unfounded. ( people drinking tablespoons of olive oil, etc )


 So 30gr a day (on TRT) at 190lbs and 2500cals would be risky?


----------



## Abc987

@El Chapo can you advise how bad my bloods are and what I can do to rectify as I'd like to start a test deca cycle. Is there anything to worry about, mainly concerned bout my cholesterol


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> So 30gr a day (on TRT) at 190lbs and 2500cals would be risky?


 No, i'm saying don't worry about getting enough fat. You will get enough from the trace amounts in all your foods. Fat is in pretty much everything, even bread.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @El Chapo can you advise how bad my bloods are and what I can do to rectify as I'd like to start a test deca cycle. Is there anything to worry about, mainly concerned bout my cholesterol
> View attachment 171013
> View attachment 171015


 How much test were you running for these bloods? That's why your cholesterol looks like that.

You can donate blood to drop your RBC and hematocrit a bit.

You might have some subclinical hypothyroidism going on which explains your sub-optimal kidney function (BUN is high).

Other wise, note that blood work does NOT show the damage that AAS cause to your body. The major health risk from taking anabolic steroids is structural changes to the heart and arterial calfication.

Things we can see easily are estradiol levels, blood pressure, and hematocrit. All of these when elevated increase the risk of blood clot/stroke and heart attack.

The best thing you can do to protect your health when using AAS is to make sure you do cardio regularly (during bulk, cut, maintenance), control bp/e2/hct and make sure you take long break on HRT doses of testosterone when cruising. Limit high dose oral cycle and length for the liver, if running higher doses or long periods, run TUDCA 250 mg daily.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> How much test were you running for these bloods? That's why your cholesterol looks like that.
> 
> You can donate blood to drop your RBC and hematocrit a bit.
> 
> You might have some subclinical hypothyroidism going on which explains your sub-optimal kidney function (BUN is high).
> 
> Other wise, note that blood work does NOT show the damage that AAS cause to your body. The major health risk from taking anabolic steroids is structural changes to the heart and arterial calfication.
> 
> Things we can see easily are estradiol levels, blood pressure, and hematocrit. All of these when elevated increase the risk of blood clot/stroke and heart attack.
> 
> The best thing you can do to protect your health when using AAS is to make sure you do cardio regularly (during bulk, cut, maintenance), control bp/e2/hct and make sure you take long break on HRT doses of testosterone when cruising. Limit high dose oral cycle and length for the liver, if running higher doses or long periods, run TUDCA 250 mg daily.


 Was on 180mg 0.6ml test e 300 every Sunday for 8 weeks.

I think they must have f**ked up and it should've read 45.5 no ai run during cruise


----------



## Pancake'

From a breakfast perspective what's the best way to start your day? I often find myself in debates with keto advocates, who often suggest carbs are cancer + starting your day with a sugary cereal is arguably the worst choice.

How much nmol should 250 & 500mg of Test enanthate provide most individuals? overall, how does one measure what x amount dose of testosterone equates towards x levels? I grasp it's broad, but talking general rule of thumb here.


----------



## Andro25

Does stay on testosterone only year round (something like 12 weeks 300 mg / week, then 12 weeks 600 mg / weeks and repeat) be more unhealthy than cycle -> PCT and repeat?

Does this really make a big damage on HPTA and make you unable to recover the natural production when you would want to?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> From a breakfast perspective what's the best way to start your day? I often find myself in debates with keto advocates, who often suggest carbs are cancer + starting your day with a sugary cereal is arguably the worst choice.
> 
> How much nmol should 250 & 500mg of Test enanthate provide most individuals? overall, how does one measure what x amount dose of testosterone equates towards x levels? I grasp it's broad, but talking general rule of thumb here.


 That's bullshit. Humans have thrived on carbs for centuries. High carbs at that. Try comparing how you feel mentally and physically on a high carb diet versus a keto/low carb diet. I will tell personally i have tried all diets. High carbs makes me feel my strongest, with lower stress levels, better endurance, energy and mental focus. Some people feel good on keto at first due to the increased adrenaline.

I skip breakfast, just drink black coffee in the morning. Intermittent fasting makes maintaining lower body fat easier since your meals are bigger and it's been linked to a lot of health benefits like possible increase in lifespan, health, etc. I find i am more productive in the morning with black coffee only. I have nothing against breakfast though.

It is very broad but generally around 17.35 nmol/L for 100 mg, you can go from there.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> Does stay on testosterone only year round (something like 12 weeks 300 mg / week, then 12 weeks 600 mg / weeks and repeat) be more unhealthy than cycle -> PCT and repeat?
> 
> Does this really make a big damage on HPTA and make you unable to recover the natural production when you would want to?


 PCT is not the healthiest thing itself, clomid and nolvadex have toxic effects on the body.

Cruising on 300 mg is not too unhealthy as long as you control hematocrit, BP, E2 and make sure you do cardio and don't get fat/obese.


----------



## Pancake'

Any idea on what that nutty professor Jarell Miller tested for?


----------



## 66983

Pancake' said:


> Any idea on what that nutty professor Jarell Miller tested for?


 According to ESPN's Dan Rafael, Miller has tested positive for banned substance GW1516, also known as Cardarine.


----------



## Freelanceuk

@ElChapo

I started self administered trt back in July 18.started with 160mg test e every 7 days.In October my test level was 37.8 nmol/L and E2 was 213pmol/L sample taken 6 days after jab.I reduced test to 120mg every 7 days did my bloods last week 3 days after jab my test level was 34.6 nmol/L and E2 269 pmol/L.I have been through a big personal upset recently and have been drinking wine excessively on a daily basis for a few months could this cause the high E2? Should I lower my dose further?I do have some arimidex but never wanted to take on trt if I did what dose would I take and what are the sides if I'm taking it continuously?by the way I'm 49 year old and before trt I was 7 mol but unfortunately didn't get bloods for E2 . Great thread by the way!


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

What do you make of the health risks of clen (taken from another thread)?

What would you consider a "safe" dose (if one exists), and how long can you run it for?

There's an article here that says it's basically lethal in the long-term.

Cheers


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> That one is really expensive for no reason. Jarrow has the same ingredient for a better price. You can get it on amazon.
> 
> *Yeah, the issue with black pepper is that it will increase the absorption of other [...] supplements. With Meriva, you dont need piperine/black pepper for absorption. *


 As in, negatively? Like, black pepper/bioperine for example could limit the uptake of other health supplements?


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> To an extent, it can mitigate some of the negative effects like hardening and stiffening of the arteries and plaque build up.
> 
> Structural changes are reversible, if you extrapolate from the studies where athlete's heart structure went back to normal after discontinuing exercise.


 That's good to know (re the second point). So if I dropped to e.g. TRT and maintained it for life, with some light cardio and lifting, any changes might be reversible or at least not get progressively worse?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Any idea on what that nutty professor Jarell Miller tested for?


 Who?


----------



## ElChapo

Freelanceuk said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I started self administered trt back in July 18.started with 160mg test e every 7 days.In October my test level was 37.8 nmol/L and E2 was 213pmol/L sample taken 6 days after jab.I reduced test to 120mg every 7 days did my bloods last week 3 days after jab my test level was 34.6 nmol/L and E2 269 pmol/L.I have been through a big personal upset recently and have been drinking wine excessively on a daily basis for a few months could this cause the high E2? Should I lower my dose further?I do have some arimidex but never wanted to take on trt if I did what dose would I take and what are the sides if I'm taking it continuously?by the way I'm 49 year old and before trt I was 7 mol but unfortunately didn't get bloods for E2 . Great thread by the way!


 It's possible, the liver helps eliminate E2 from the body. Alcoholics have been documented with higher E2 levels due to impaired liver function.

You need to stop drinking the wine in excess.

Your levels are okay, if you are drawing blood right after your injection, you are looking at the peak which happens at 72 hours post injections.

If you wanna bump down E2, 0.5 mg adex per week will likely do the job, but get the drinking under control and you might not have to.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you make of the health risks of clen (taken from another thread)?
> 
> What would you consider a "safe" dose (if one exists), and how long can you run it for?
> 
> There's an article here that says it's basically lethal in the long-term.
> 
> Cheers


 Health risks of clen ; 1. If you take clen year round (some people actually do this) 2. If you have pre-existing heart conditions 3. If the clen is raising your BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time.

Otherwise, the health risks are minimal. I don't see why anyone would ever need more than 100-120 mcg per day, after that, you let the deficit and cardio do their job.

The article is 110% horseshit. He is using big fancy words like actin/myosin and mashing it together in a non-sensical bs manner. Nothing he is saying makes sense physiologically. It's just clickbait garbage.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Health risks of clen ; 1. If you take clen year round (some people actually do this) 2. If you have pre-existing heart conditions 3. If the clen is raising your BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time.
> 
> Otherwise, the health risks are minimal. I don't see why anyone would ever need more than 100-120 mcg per day, after that, you let the deficit and cardio do their job.
> 
> The article is 110% horseshit. He is using big fancy words like actin/myosin and mashing it together in a non-sensical bs manner. Nothing he is saying makes sense physiologically. It's just clickbait garbage.


 This is why you the man, boss!!! 

Thanks!!!


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> As in, negatively? Like, black pepper/bioperine for example could limit the uptake of other health supplements?


 No, the opposite. Piperine/black pepper reduces the levels of liver enzymes that breakdown medications and drugs. One of the major ones is CYP3A4. So these medications will hang around in your body for longer and also build up to higher levels.

Piperine will also inhibit glucorodination in the intestines, this is a process that also helps breakdown drugs and toxins and prevent their absorption.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> That's good to know (re the second point). So if I dropped to e.g. TRT and maintained it for life, with some light cardio and lifting, any changes might be reversible or at least not get progressively worse?


 Exactly (for the heart changes/stiffened arteries)

For the calcification/plaque/atherosclerosis induced by AAS, Vitamin K2 has real potential to reverse and prevent further build up.

100-200 mcg vitamin K2 ( MK7 form )

This is why i tell people that ideally you will build your dream physique and maintain that on TRT level into your golden years. Dream physique being decent level of muscle development and maintaining 8-12% body fat for most men, you will look and feel amazing. Those that want to look like mutants, it's not sustainable in the long run.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> This is why you the man, boss!!!
> 
> Thanks!!!


 To add to this:

"BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time. "

Blood pressure over 140/90 mmhg for many years will damage vision, kidney function, heart health and even increase risk of dementia.

Blood pressure over 160/100 mmhg in the short-term can increase risk of immediate stroke, heart attack, etc. and the issues i stated above will happen much faster.


----------



## Freelanceuk

ElChapo said:


> It's possible, the liver helps eliminate E2 from the body. Alcoholics have been documented with higher E2 levels due to impaired liver function.
> 
> You need to stop drinking the wine in excess.
> 
> Your levels are okay, if you are drawing blood right after your injection, you are looking at the peak which happens at 72 hours post injections.
> 
> If you wanna bump down E2, 0.5 mg adex per week will likely do the job, but get the drinking under control and you might not have to.


 Thanks elchapo


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> No, the opposite. Piperine/black pepper reduces the levels of liver enzymes that breakdown medications and drugs. One of the major ones is CYP3A4. So these medications will hang around in your body for longer and also build up to higher levels.
> 
> Piperine will also inhibit glucorodination in the intestines, this is a process that also helps breakdown drugs and toxins and prevent their absorption.


 Roger that! Thanks mate.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> To add to this:
> 
> "BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time. "
> 
> Blood pressure over 140/90 mmhg for many years will damage vision, kidney function, heart health and even increase risk of dementia.
> 
> Blood pressure over 160/100 mmhg in the short-term can increase risk of immediate stroke, heart attack, etc. and the issues i stated above will happen much faster.


 Kewl. My BP is about 110/70 most of the time, so I'm good from that POV. BJJ/cardio obvs helps and so does not being a fat f**k, haha.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> Exactly (for the heart changes/stiffened arteries)
> 
> For the calcification/plaque/atherolsclerosis induced by AAS, Vitamin K2 has real potential to reverse and prevent further build up. 100-200 mcg vitamin K2 ( MK7 form )
> 
> This is why i tell people that ideally you will build your dream physique and maintain that on TRT level into your golden years. Dream physique being decent level of muscle development and maintaining 8-12% body fat for most men, you will look and feel amazing. Those that want to look like mutants, it's not sustainable in the long run.


 Amen to that, ace!!!!


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Who?


 My thought entirely when I first heard of him. it's ok, sparkey answered it, seems he popped for cardarine. was supposed to fight joshua June 1st


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> To add to this:
> 
> "BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time. "
> 
> Blood pressure over 140/90 mmhg for many years will damage vision, kidney function, heart health and even increase risk of dementia.
> 
> Blood pressure over 160/100 mmhg in the short-term can increase risk of immediate stroke, heart attack, etc. and the issues i stated above will happen much faster.


 My BP is 140/85 and my drs is overly concerned about it ..


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Health risks of clen ; 1. If you take clen year round (some people actually do this) 2. If you have pre-existing heart conditions 3. If the clen is raising your BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time.
> 
> Otherwise, the health risks are minimal. I don't see why anyone would ever need more than 100-120 mcg per day, after that, you let the deficit and cardio do their job.
> 
> The article is 110% horseshit. He is using big fancy words like actin/myosin and mashing it together in a non-sensical bs manner. Nothing he is saying makes sense physiologically. It's just clickbait garbage.


 When i cut usually i use 40-60mcg Clen Mon-Fri, Sat-Sun OFF.

Maybe i am delusional but together with 50mcg T3 ed it seems working perfectly, and have 0 sides.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> My BP is 140/85 and my drs is overly concerned about it ..


 is or isn't?

Do you know how many patient's i've met who required dialysis because their doctor was not concerned or didn't warn them of their BP being +140? It's a sad thing.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Exactly (for the heart changes/stiffened arteries)
> 
> For the calcification/plaque/atherolsclerosis induced by AAS, Vitamin K2 has real potential to reverse and prevent further build up. 100-200 mcg vitamin K2 ( MK7 form )
> 
> This is why i tell people that ideally you will build your dream physique and maintain that on TRT level into your golden years. Dream physique being decent level of muscle development and maintaining 8-12% body fat for most men, you will look and feel amazing. Those that want to look like mutants, it's not sustainable in the long run.





> 2 hours ago, arbffgadm100 said:
> 
> Amen to that, ace!!!!


 I think HRT/TRT hasnt caught up yet in my country, but Joe rogan peaked my intrest.

Whats your take on going on replacement therapy with growth hormone and test after 35-40 years, and then staying on it for life, for health benefits?

Perhaps even get the HGH covered by running a GHRP/GHRH 2x daily, and get the test by a doctor.

Hopefully by that time it will have become more mainstream and socially accepted where i live


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> To add to this:
> 
> "BP over 140/90 mmhg over long periods of time or 160/100 mmhg over short periods of time. "
> 
> Blood pressure over 140/90 mmhg for many years will damage vision, kidney function, heart health and even increase risk of dementia.
> 
> Blood pressure over 160/100 mmhg in the short-term can increase risk of immediate stroke, heart attack, etc. and the issues i stated above will happen much faster.


 I've been having 13/7 or 14/7 since years , even before AAS use. surely from anxiety problems and stress

but I don't get it , when I check it at my Doctor he always say 12/6 but it seems like he doesn't care and his BP machine isn't working well.

When I give blood , I have 14-15/6-7 ; they always comment about me having high BP/Pulse. and I always say because I stress of the needles ; but when they retest some min laters I sometimes have 13/6 .

So not sure what is my real BP . since I suffer from anxiety I always get high pulse/BP when I go out but at home I maybe have 12/6


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would taking 20mg anavar or 15mg tbol ED after a 8 weeks 50mg cycle be bad for health ?

I'm still taking 15mg tbol ED for the SHBG decreasing effect and it seems like it keep me fuller. Is it bad ? or at that dose it may not impact my cholesterol/bp levels ?

I added 400mg TUDCA ed some days ago


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> 2 hours ago, arbffgadm100 said:
> 
> Amen to that, ace!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I think HRT/TRT hasnt caught up yet in my country, but Joe rogan peaked my intrest.
> 
> Whats your take on going on replacement therapy with growth hormone and test after 35-40 years, and then staying on it for life, for health benefits?
> 
> Perhaps even get the HGH covered by running a GHRP/GHRH 2x daily, and get the test by a doctor.
> 
> Hopefully by that time it will have become more mainstream and socially accepted where i live
Click to expand...

 If your testosterone levels are low enough and you are symptomatic, the health benefits and quality of life improvements are great.

Generally, GH levels start to decline significantly around 35 but many people actually have decent levels into their middle years for both test & GH, so i wouldn't do HRT for test or GH unless levels are low.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I've been having 13/7 or 14/7 since years , even before AAS use. surely from anxiety problems and stress
> 
> but I don't get it , when I check it at my Doctor he always say 12/6 but it seems like he doesn't care and his BP machine isn't working well.
> 
> When I give blood , I have 14-15/6-7 ; they always comment about me having high BP/Pulse. and I always say because I stress of the needles ; but when they retest some min laters I sometimes have 13/6 .
> 
> So not sure what is my real BP . since I suffer from anxiety I always get high pulse/BP when I go out but at home I maybe have 12/6


 A low dose beta blocker will lower your anxiety and bump your BP and HR down a bit with minimal side effects.

Make sure when you use the cuff that it isn't too tight as this will make the level appear higher. it should be firm but you should be able to slip a finger between the cuff and your arm if you try to slide it in.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would taking 20mg anavar or 15mg tbol ED after a 8 weeks 50mg cycle be bad for health ?
> 
> I'm still taking 15mg tbol ED for the SHBG decreasing effect and it seems like it keep me fuller. Is it bad ? or at that dose it may not impact my cholesterol/bp levels ?
> 
> I added 400mg TUDCA ed some days ago


 I will never recommend cruising on orals. There is just no point and it's not worth it.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> A low dose beta blocker will lower your anxiety and bump your BP and HR down a bit with minimal side effects.
> 
> Make sure when you use the cuff that it isn't too tight as this will make the level appear higher. it should be firm but you should be able to slip a finger between the cuff and your arm if you try to slide it in.


 I've tried low dose beta blocker but it made me feel so weird , and made me asleep too so I stopped.

and I was taking only 1/2 of the pill , I think it was propranolol

let s say I workout at 3pm ed , could I take propranolol 10mg at 7pm ed ? Is it bad for fat loss/building muscle?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I've tried low dose beta blocker but it made me feel so weird , and made me asleep too so I stopped.
> 
> and I was taking only 1/2 of the pill , I think it was propranolol
> 
> let s say I workout at 3pm ed , could I take propranolol 10mg at 7pm ed ? Is it bad for fat loss/building muscle?


 You can take extended release at night. It should not affect fat loss or muscle.

You don't want your BP to be any higher than 130/85 mmhg most of the time.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> is or isn't?
> 
> Do you know how many patient's i've met who required dialysis because their doctor was not concerned or didn't warn them of their BP being +140? It's a sad thing.


 I was with him on Friday about my kidney function test results. They are silently under what the NHS like them to be. ( but might be due to dehydration.

All he said was we will monitor them with 3 bloods test this year to see if they improve.

When I mentioned my 140/85 BP he said it is on the high end of normal.

Thing is all the BP meds I have tried have not agreed with me, do you think I should go and try some more. ??


----------



## Abc987

@El Chapo

whats your opinion on this supplement???

Astaxanthin

Seems to have a few benefits and is pretty cheap too


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> I was with him on Friday about my kidney function test results. They are silently under what the NHS like them to be. ( but might be due to dehydration.
> 
> All he said was we will monitor them with 3 bloods test this year to see if they improve.
> 
> When I mentioned my 140/85 BP he said it is on the high end of normal.
> 
> Thing is all the BP meds I have tried have not agreed with me, do you think I should go and try some more. ??


 Anything over 130/90 is hypertensive.

What is your approximate body fat percentage? Do you cruise or HRT? What dose? How much cardio/activity do you do? Stress levels? Sleep quality? Smoker? Drinker?

I would try all possible lifestyle changes before taking anything, once that's exhausted, as little as possible dose of beta blocker is my go-to recommendation.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> whats your opinion on this supplement???
> 
> Astaxanthin
> 
> Seems to have a few benefits and is pretty cheap too


 It's alright, but pycnogenol/meriva curcumin are my top recommendations.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> Anything over 130/90 is hypertensive.
> 
> What is your approximate body fat percentage? Do you cruise or HRT? What dose? How much cardio/activity do you do? Stress levels? Sleep quality? Smoker? Drinker?
> 
> I would try all possible lifestyle changes before taking anything, once that's exhausted, as little as possible dose of beta blocker is my go-to recommendation.


 Bf roughly 15-17 . First thing In the morning my abs are on show. Working on getting it lower.

On 150mg test e at the moment every 7 days but even when I was on anything my BP was roughly the same . I need to get a e2 blood test to see where that is at, I have a feeling it's high. Currently taking half a Aromasin Monday, Wednesday and Friday along with 1000iu of hcg.

I do alot of cardio with high fitness levels .

Non smoker and I only drink 3-4 times a year but iam abit of a stress head.

I have tried ramipril, amlodipine and on your advise before the beta blocker bisoprolol, bisoprolol lowered my pulse to 48-50 beats and made me feel weird and I had trouble sleeping.

Ramipril was the least side with a dry tickling cough.

Thanks again.


----------



## Andro25

Does lower the dosage of testosterone into TRT for 3 weeks make it not detectable from a steroid blood test?

If I am correct, they test for T/E ratios. Thus does this mean that when the testosterone is in the natural range I will be ok or this is not how it works?

I see some reference that list testosterone enanthate detectable up to 3 month but I'm not sure if it is refereed to metabolite (tested only if T/E ratio is over 4 in the first place) or if the T/E itself remain altered.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo what are the best supplements for lowering BP on cycle / cruising / TRT?

besides doing cardio , good hydratation and Cialis


----------



## Will2309

@ElChapo

Just taken my BP reading again, its 150/89 with pulse of 50. I will go back to the doctor on Tuesday to discuss more options.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Bf roughly 15-17 . First thing In the morning my abs are on show. Working on getting it lower.
> 
> On 150mg test e at the moment every 7 days but even when I was on anything my BP was roughly the same . I need to get a e2 blood test to see where that is at, I have a feeling it's high. Currently taking half a Aromasin Monday, Wednesday and Friday along with 1000iu of hcg.
> 
> I do alot of cardio with high fitness levels .
> 
> Non smoker and I only drink 3-4 times a year but iam abit of a stress head.
> 
> I have tried ramipril, amlodipine and on your advise before the beta blocker bisoprolol, bisoprolol lowered my pulse to 48-50 beats and made me feel weird and I had trouble sleeping.
> 
> Ramipril was the least side with a dry tickling cough.
> 
> Thanks again.


 Try to stay in the 10-15% range.

Check E2.

Make sure you are not over training, too much exercise can increase BP through stress hormones.

You don't want BP over 130/90 mmhg for many years, it will damage your body. If it's over 130/90 mmhg sometimes then it's not really a problem.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> Does lower the dosage of testosterone into TRT for 3 weeks make it not detectable from a steroid blood test?
> 
> If I am correct, they test for T/E ratios. Thus does this mean that when the testosterone is in the natural range I will be ok or this is not how it works?
> 
> I see some reference that list testosterone enanthate detectable up to 3 month but I'm not sure if it is refereed to metabolite (tested only if T/E ratio is over 4 in the first place) or if the T/E itself remain altered.


 It depends on the type test, there are three main ones.

1. Total testosterone serum level ; tests the level of testosterone in your blood.

2. Testosterone/Epistesterone ratio test ; tests the ratio of testosterone to epitestesterone (metabolite of testosterone). People who take exogenous testosterone will have an unnatural ratio that can be detected with blood work. Saavy athletes take epitestosterone cream in the right amounts to beat this test.

3. Gas Chromatography Combustion Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (GC×GCC-IRMS) ; Fancy pancy test that can actually tell if the testosterone in your blood is naturally made in the human body or synthetically made in a lab.

Different leagues and testing agencies will use varying tests. #3 is the most expensive and rare but it's virtually unbeatable. 1 and 2 are fairly cheap and most commonly used.

#1 can be beaten by staying in the natural range # 2 by taking an epi test cream in the right ratio to exogenous testosterone. Many athletes will use androgel or test cream since the half-life is extremely short and you can mix it with an epi test cream.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo what are the best supplements for lowering BP on cycle / cruising / TRT?
> 
> besides doing cardio , good hydratation and Cialis


 Low dose beta blocker, nothing else is really effective as a supplement to a significant enough degree to be worth taking.

Don't worry if your BP is high on cycle, as it won't have enough time do damage your body. If it's over 160/100 mmhg on cycle, you should definitely consider getting it down, but if it's under that during cycle, don't worry about it as long as the cycle length is limited.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Just taken my BP reading again, its 150/89 with pulse of 50. I will go back to the doctor on Tuesday to discuss more options.


 Yeah, get that under control for sure. It will damage your vision, kidneys, heart, and increase risk of vascular dementia over the span of decades.

Very low dose beta blocker to bring you down to at least 130/85 mmhg should have zero sides. You can cut the lowest dose in half and experiment.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, get that under control for sure. It will damage your vision, kidneys, heart, and increase risk of vascular dementia over the span of decades.
> 
> Very low dose beta blocker to bring you down to at least 130/85 mmhg should have zero sides. You can cut the lowest dose in half and experiment.


 I only was on 5mg of bisoprolol but still had sides from that low dose and tbh it didn't touch my BP.

I will get my e2 checked and assess if need to and may be try a ace inhibitor again.

Thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> I only was on 5mg of bisoprolol but still had sides from that low dose and tbh it didn't touch my BP.
> 
> I will get my e2 checked and assess if need to and may be try a ace inhibitor again.
> 
> Thanks again.


 No problem, keep tweaking your lifestyle, check your E2, etc.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Low dose beta blocker, nothing else is really effective as a supplement to a significant enough degree to be worth taking.
> 
> Don't worry if your BP is high on cycle, as it won't have enough time do damage your body. If it's over 160/100 mmhg on cycle, you should definitely consider getting it down, but if it's under that during cycle, don't worry about it as long as the cycle length is limited.


 the thing is that I'm on cycle all year long , 250mg test and sometimes I'll add Tbol for 8 weeks If I can.

I guess I'm ok , I must be at 13-14/6-7


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> the thing is that I'm on cycle all year long , 250mg test and sometimes I'll add Tbol for 8 weeks If I can.
> 
> I guess I'm ok , I must be at 13-14/6-7


 No, if your systolic BP is 140 mmhg year round that's not good.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> No, if your systolic BP is 140 mmhg year round that's not good.


 I think it's 12/6 but when I get anxious I go up to 14/7


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I think it's 12/6 but when I get anxious I go up to 14/7


 As long as most of the time it's under 140/90 you're fine.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> As long as most of the time it's under 140/90 you're fine.


 what about the second number? I've read long time ago that if there was too much difference between the 1st and 2nd number it wasn't good.

For exemple 15/6 ? it would be better to have 15/8 ? or is it BS?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What does increase BP on AAS?

For exemple , let ' s say. someone use 500mg test and have 15/8 BP , before cycling he has 13/7.

He has low bf , do cardio , E2 in range , eat healthy but his BP goes up and he gets migraines.

What is the mechanism for high BP?


----------



## capo

@ElChapo

whats your thoughts on BAM15 ,is this a wonder drug or just another cardarine in the making

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211383518301680


----------



## Will2309

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What does increase BP on AAS?
> 
> For exemple , let ' s say. someone use 500mg test and have 15/8 BP , before cycling he has 13/7.
> 
> He has low bf , do cardio , E2 in range , eat healthy but his BP goes up and he gets migraines.
> 
> What is the mechanism for high BP?


 I would like to know what causes high BP full spot then someone is fit and healthy who does not smoke or drink much and is not over weight .

Pisses me right off that some of my work pals are overweight, have a s**t diet and have great BP.


----------



## ElChapo

capo said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your thoughts on BAM15 ,is this a wonder drug or just another cardarine in the making
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211383518301680





capo said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your thoughts on BAM15 ,is this a wonder drug or just another cardarine in the making
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211383518301680


 Might have some positive health effect like life span extension/reduced oxidation, these mitochrondia uncouplers seem to mimick caloric restriction. Probably won't be a huge deal, but who knows. Seems to have protective effects on mouse health. Will be interesting to see what cool compounds will be around 5-10 years from now .


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What does increase BP on AAS?
> 
> For exemple , let ' s say. someone use 500mg test and have 15/8 BP , before cycling he has 13/7.
> 
> He has low bf , do cardio , E2 in range , eat healthy but his BP goes up and he gets migraines.
> 
> What is the mechanism for high BP?


 Androgens can affect the renin-angiotensin system and sodium/potassium uptake/balance. High E2 can increase BP via MAO effects and catecholamine activity, increase in RBC and HCT can also increase blood pressure. There's a bunch of different mechanisms involved.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> what about the second number? I've read long time ago that if there was too much difference between the 1st and 2nd number it wasn't good.
> 
> For exemple 15/6 ? it would be better to have 15/8 ? or is it BS?


 The first number systolic : Pressure in the cardiovascular system when the heart beats/contract.

The second number diastolic: Pressure in the cardiovascular system when the heart relaxes. This is why the second number is always lower.

Some research shows the difference may be important. I wouldn't pay it mind, just try to keep both numbers in range.


----------



## Endomorph84

Hello mate. I'm usually run NPP & Winny with Sust or TestE. I'm wanting to run it with Test Prop but I'm not sure about how to then cruise on TestE/ Sust after running prop.

Whats the best way to transition from short to long ester?

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Hello mate. I'm usually run NPP & Winny with Sust or TestE. I'm wanting to run it with Test Prop but I'm not sure about how to then cruise on TestE/ Sust after running prop.
> 
> Whats the best way to transition from short to long ester?
> 
> Thanks.


 Just switch between one or the other, no reason to taper or time it. It won't make a difference.


----------



## swole troll

for someone running a prolonged cut say 20 weeks+

would implementing a replacement dose of T3 circa 25mcg at around the 10-12 week mark negate the need for a dietary break assuming this break is only done for metabolic purposes rather than psychological

to put it into context personally i have zero issues with hunger even when dieting down very lean, hunger isnt really that uncomfortable imo

that said my biggest issue in the past has been weight loss slowing or even halting despite plenty of cardio and on paper adequate caloric restriction to maintain a 1-2lb weight loss per week, ill then take a 1 week break eating at maintenance (which i hate doing) and the weight loss resumes under the same conditions i was in prior to my dietary break (same amount of cardio, same amount of calories)

i can only attribute this to resetting metabolism

would T3 override the need for this?

im right in thinking that these dietary breaks on a physiological level are only resetting ghrelin (remember i personally dont have an issue with ignoring hunger) and thyroid output?

which is why i ask would the exogenous T3 handle the thyroid / metabolism side of this equation allowing weight loss to continue at a consistent rate reflective of caloric intake for the entire cut


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> for someone running a prolonged cut say 20 weeks+
> 
> would implementing a replacement dose of T3 circa 25mcg at around the 10-12 week mark negate the need for a dietary break assuming this break is only done for metabolic purposes rather than psychological
> 
> to put it into context personally i have zero issues with hunger even when dieting down very lean, hunger isnt really that uncomfortable imo
> 
> that said my biggest issue in the past has been weight loss slowing or even halting despite plenty of cardio and on paper adequate caloric restriction to maintain a 1-2lb weight loss per week, ill then take a 1 week break eating at maintenance (which i hate doing) and the weight loss resumes under the same conditions i was in prior to my dietary break (same amount of cardio, same amount of calories)
> 
> i can only attribute this to resetting metabolism
> 
> would T3 override the need for this?
> 
> im right in thinking that these dietary breaks on a physiological level are only resetting ghrelin (remember i personally dont have an issue with ignoring hunger) and thyroid output?
> 
> which is why i ask would the exogenous T3 handle the thyroid / metabolism side of this equation allowing weight loss to continue at a consistent rate reflective of caloric intake for the entire cut


 Not entirely because Leptin is the main factor and there is also the psychological factor. If you keep carbs high or have carb refeeds or carb cycle (will keep leptin higher), you don't need diet breaks as often and can even forego them entirely unless your cut is very long. Leptin increases T3 but that's only one of the mechanism behind it's positive effects.

I am the same, hunger is not an issue for me ever, even going down to single digits. I don't typically take many diet breaks and will easily go past 12 weeks without one. If i'm under 9% i might do it after 4 weeks, then finish off my cut with 1-2 more weeks of deficit. It's not your metabolism slowing down, metabolic slow down is not significant enough to completely halt fat loss.

Read this:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/

and this:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/

Is your stalling going past 3-4 weeks? I am one of those people who can stall for 3-4 weeks with no weight changes, but will "woosh" and drop lbs of water in one day. Stalling is normal during long cuts or big deficits, it does not mean you aren't losing fat, the stress hormones make you hold water in place of the fat you already lost, so you look and weigh like you haven't lost any fat.

The T3 will help to an extent, but your stalls are more likely delayed wooshes and not metabolic slow down.

To add to this, one of the reason i advocate moderate-high carb and am against keto/low carb is because the former keeps leptin and glycogen levels higher which translate to better performance, fuller/stronger muscles, and enhanced mood/well being with decreased hunger.

High carb diets mimick caloric surplus physiologically and increase T3 and leptin output even in a deficit.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Not entirely because Leptin is the main factor and there is also the psychological factor. If you keep carbs high or have carb refeeds or carb cycle (will keep leptin higher), you don't need diet breaks as often and can even forego them entirely unless your cut is very long. Leptin increases T3 but that's only one of the mechanism behind it's positive effects.
> 
> I am the same, hunger is not an issue for me ever, even going down to single digits. I don't typically take many diet breaks and will easily go past 12 weeks without one. If i'm under 9% i might do it after 4 weeks, then finish off my cut with 1-2 more weeks of deficit. It's not your metabolism slowing down, metabolic slow down is not significant enough to completely halt fat loss.
> 
> Read this:
> 
> https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/
> 
> and this:
> 
> https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/
> 
> Is your stalling going past 3-4 weeks? I am one of those people who can stall for 3-4 weeks with no weight changes, but will "woosh" and drop lbs of water in one day. Stalling is normal during long cuts or big deficits, it does not mean you aren't losing fat, the stress hormones make you hold water in place of the fat you already lost, so you look and weigh like you haven't lost any fat.
> 
> The T3 will help to an extent, but your stalls are more likely delayed wooshes and not metabolic slow down.
> 
> To add to this, one of the reason i advocate moderate-high carb and am against keto/low carb is because the former keeps leptin and glycogen levels higher which translate to better performance, fuller/stronger muscles, and enhanced mood/well being with decreased hunger.
> 
> High carb diets mimick caloric surplus physiologically and increase T3 and leptin output even in a deficit.


 Thanks for the detailed reply

To be honest I'm too impatient to have ever allowed my body a chance to start losing weight again during a stall but now you mention it that makes sense as I'll often stall for a week or 2 which will make no sense to be losing 1kg per week and then all of a sudden nothing, not even a half kilo loss and at this point I drop usually a further 10% of my calories and a s**t load of weight will drop off

Do you recommend ignoring these short term halts in weight loss then? If they dont make any logical sense

IE going from losing 1kg per week to all of a sudden no weight loss despite calories and cardio being hit


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply
> 
> To be honest I'm too impatient to have ever allowed my body a chance to start losing weight again during a stall but now you mention it that makes sense as I'll often stall for a week or 2 which will make no sense to be losing 1kg per week and then all of a sudden nothing, not even a half kilo loss and at this point I drop usually a further 10% of my calories and a s**t load of weight will drop off
> 
> Do you recommend ignoring these short term halts in weight loss then? If they dont make any logical sense
> 
> IE going from losing 1kg per week to all of a sudden no weight loss despite calories and cardio being hit


 Yeah, you just have to tell yourself that you are definitely in the deficit. If you read the second link you will see that those guys who were basically starved for 6 months didn't even experience a significant enough slow down in metabolism to significantly slow down fat loss. I will literally go 3 weeks without losing a single pound and it can f**k with your head if you let it, but without fail i will "woosh" 2-4 lbs in one day after my stall and look like i lost 1-2% bodyfat in one day. Water will actually fill up the empty fat cell so you look and weigh the same even though fat loss is happening.

For me, i ignore them. The stalls happen more frequently when i'm cutting for a long period or with a big deficit (800-1000), but i KNOW the energy has to be coming from somewhere ( my fat stores ) not once have i failed to "woosh" and show the fat loss. Sometimes a carb refeed or small break/surplus will trigger the woosh.

I would ignore the stalls if you definitely know you are hitting your deficit, it works for me. Just remember, it's impossible to create energy from thin air, your body has to be using fat stores. Read through the two articles multiple times, you will come away with more info each time, there's a lot of useful data in them.


----------



## pma111

Can you honestly put on any muscle strength training during a prolonged calorific deficit / cut e.g. 12-16 weeks, or is it humanly impossible unless you are in a surplus.


----------



## Matt6210

@ElChapo Low dose t3 at 25mcg a day while bulking to help with protein synthesis and avoid fat gain.

Worth it buddy? Pros? Cons?

cheers

(also be running gh and slin)


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Can you honestly put on any muscle strength training during a prolonged calorific deficit / cut e.g. 12-16 weeks, or is it humanly impossible unless you are in a surplus.


 It's possible but certain conditions must be met. Usually a person will be a beginner/novice or intermediate lifter, or if they are obese.

If a person is experience but taking AAS for the first time, they will also likely get stronger even during a cut.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

The mother in law is on meds as she had a tia (mini stroke) almost two years ago. No issues since, gyms it four times a week, yoga, pilates, various classes etc.

Anyway she has been on a slimming world or similar diet and was told on the last two blood tests that her iron levels are low (she's 67 and ears well, drinks wine a couple of times a week, no other vices)

She's been advised to take a iron supp and if it doesn't improve she'll be given injections every week for a few weeks to boost whatever it is they want, then monthly..

No I assume the meds, her age and also the diet has perhaps made iron appear lo, I could be wrong, so what should she do. Ie you recommended specific supps not magnesium sulphate but magnesium something else as its better quality so what's the best quality iron or general with iron supp for her to take? Money isn't an issue.

Sorry for the long message but I wanted it to be more than "how can an old woman boost iron"


----------



## SlinMeister

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> The mother in law is on meds as she had a tia (mini stroke) almost two years ago. No issues since, gyms it four times a week, yoga, pilates, various classes etc.
> 
> Anyway she has been on a slimming world or similar diet and was told on the last two blood tests that her iron levels are low (she's 67 and ears well, drinks wine a couple of times a week, no other vices)
> 
> She's been advised to take a iron supp and if it doesn't improve she'll be given injections every week for a few weeks to boost whatever it is they want, then monthly..
> 
> No I assume the meds, her age and also the diet has perhaps made iron appear lo, I could be wrong, so what should she do. Ie you recommended specific supps not magnesium sulphate but magnesium something else as its better quality so what's the best quality iron or general with iron supp for her to take? Money isn't an issue.
> 
> Sorry for the long message but I wanted it to be more than "how can an old woman boost iron"


 Very interesting since I had issues with very low iron levels too....


----------



## stewedw

*apologies for the typos. Phone screen is fkd


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> The mother in law is on meds as she had a tia (mini stroke) almost two years ago. No issues since, gyms it four times a week, yoga, pilates, various classes etc.
> 
> Anyway she has been on a slimming world or similar diet and was told on the last two blood tests that her iron levels are low (she's 67 and ears well, drinks wine a couple of times a week, no other vices)
> 
> She's been advised to take a iron supp and if it doesn't improve she'll be given injections every week for a few weeks to boost whatever it is they want, then monthly..
> 
> No I assume the meds, her age and also the diet has perhaps made iron appear lo, I could be wrong, so what should she do. Ie you recommended specific supps not magnesium sulphate but magnesium something else as its better quality so what's the best quality iron or general with iron supp for her to take? Money isn't an issue.
> 
> Sorry for the long message but I wanted it to be more than "how can an old woman boost iron"


 Not sure what slimming world diet is, perhaps she's not getting red meat. Red meat and clams are excellent sources of iron.

I highly recommend ferochel iron biglycinate, highly bioavailable and easy on the stomach (ferrous sulfate can irritate the stomach and not absorbed as well ; the most common form

https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Iron-Ferrochel-Veg-capsules-120-Count/dp/B00YAT64XO/ref=sr_1_9?hvadid=153693090898&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003525&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8996627382042926785&hvtargid=aud-647006051489%3Akwd-1568535056&keywords=ferrochel&qid=1556061568&s=gateway&sr=8-9

This stuff has worked for family members to fix their iron issues, can't recommend it enough.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> @ElChapo Low dose t3 at 25mcg a day while bulking to help with protein synthesis and avoid fat gain.
> 
> Worth it buddy? Pros? Cons?
> 
> cheers
> 
> (also be running gh and slin)


 Not worth it, will shut down your Free T4 levels.

Replacement or slightly over dose thyroid supplementation will only boost your TDEE burn by around 4-10% at best


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Not worth it, will shut down your Free T4 levels.
> 
> Replacement or slightly over dose thyroid supplementation will only boost your TDEE burn by around 4-10% at best


 Where do you think T3s place is during a cut

Personally I've always found higher doses (anything over 50mcg) make me flat, tired and weak

Do you feel that alongside clen there is a place for 25-50mcg of t3 for a consistent metabolic boost throughout your 8-10-12 week cut ?


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> Where do you think T3s place is during a cut
> 
> Personally I've always found higher doses (anything over 50mcg) make me flat, tired and weak
> 
> Do you feel that alongside clen there is a place for 25-50mcg of t3 for a consistent metabolic boost throughout your 8-10-12 week cut ?


 i ve tried all dose of T3 , and the best for me was 12.5mcg . ( people told me it was useless under 25mcg )

I took bloods on it and I was higher then normal range but not by much , and my T4 was juste a bit suppressed (20-30%) .

I could keep my bf lower easier for sure .

25mcg for more then 3 months suppressed my T4 (by 80%) and the accumulation of the 25mcg started to give me shaky hands , hair loss.

50mcg and + gave lethargy , anxiety and lose of strength / looking flat like pancake. not worth it at all for me


----------



## swole troll

Baka said:


> 50mcg and + gave lethargy , anxiety and lose of strength / looking flat like pancake. not worth it at all for me


 i think ive only ever ran T3 twice for this reason

i went up to 50mcg and like you i got all of the above

pushed to 75mcg and lasted under a week

honestly i dont understand how people push this med to 50mcg +

i was watching all my lifts drop week after week and i looked so flat and stringey even on TTM lol.

i got a big tub of it still and wanted to implement it into what has already been a long cut so that i can keep a nice metabolic boost ticking over and use the cardio and thermogenics to push me into a deeper deficit


----------



## Jaling

@El Chapo

im currently on t3 50mcg a day. I'm bulking also.

ive read there is a better nutritional partioning with supplementation of t3 is this true?

if true which dose would be optimal for this during a calorie surplus?

i started using t3 to cut but changed to a bulk shortly after starting.

ive been taking 50mcg for about 6 weeks. If I were to just stop taking now would I get rebound effects from supplementing with t3 - greater weight gain than before ( I'm in a surplus ) ?

If the first question I asked isn't true

whats my best bet for stopping t3 at this stage without gaining loads of fat ?

thanks


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> i think ive only ever ran T3 twice for this reason
> 
> i went up to 50mcg and like you i got all of the above
> 
> pushed to 75mcg and lasted under a week
> 
> honestly i dont understand how people push this med to 50mcg +
> 
> i was watching all my lifts drop week after week and i looked so flat and stringey even on TTM lol.
> 
> i got a big tub of it still and wanted to implement it into what has already been a long cut so that i can keep a nice metabolic boost ticking over and use the cardio and thermogenics to push me into a deeper deficit


 don't use it mate

not worth it . and having low T4 and hyperthyroidism isn't good neither.. I've used 25mcg T3 for really long time and I paid the price . shitty skin / hair loss from almost 0 levels of T4. (T4 is important for skin health, hair health and other things)

What people don't realize is that when you f**k your body homeostasis with hormones/meds it disrupts everything and can lead to problems you don't realize immediately.

Suppressing your thyroid isn't good either even if the recovery is fast compared to HPTA


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Where do you think T3s place is during a cut
> 
> Personally I've always found higher doses (anything over 50mcg) make me flat, tired and weak
> 
> Do you feel that alongside clen there is a place for 25-50mcg of t3 for a consistent metabolic boost throughout your 8-10-12 week cut ?


 If you haven't noticed from using it, it's not very impressive as a fat burner and as you mentioned, higher doses will make you flatter, weaker and can affect your cardiovascular endurance.

I don't typically recommend it as a fat burner. I'm a 100% calories in/out + bonus 10% from fat burners like ephedrine, clen, yohimbine or DNP kind of guy. I haven't cut with any fat burners or drugs in 5 years with no problem getting to single digit body fat. Remember, at best, something like clen might net you an extra 200 calories burned per day, you can easily hit that by doing a little cardio or skipping an extra cookie.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> i think ive only ever ran T3 twice for this reason
> 
> i went up to 50mcg and like you i got all of the above
> 
> pushed to 75mcg and lasted under a week
> 
> honestly i dont understand how people push this med to 50mcg +
> 
> i was watching all my lifts drop week after week and i looked so flat and stringey even on TTM lol.
> 
> i got a big tub of it still and wanted to implement it into what has already been a long cut so that i can keep a nice metabolic boost ticking over and use the cardio and thermogenics to push me into a deeper deficit


 The only way i recommend it as useful is alongside another fat burner to enhance it's effects (thyroid hormone increases the sensitivity of the receptors most fat burners work through) or to help prevent metabolic slow down during a longer or big deficit cut. Otherwise, the compound has fallen out of favor if you haven't noticed and for good reason.


----------



## Jaling

Baka said:


> don't use it mate
> 
> not worth it . and having low T4 and hyperthyroidism isn't good neither.. I've used 25mcg T3 for really long time and I paid the price . shitty skin / hair loss from almost 0 levels of T4. (T4 is important for skin health, hair health and other things)
> 
> What people don't realize is that when you f**k your body homeostasis with hormones/meds it disrupts everything and can lead to problems you don't realize immediately.
> 
> Suppressing your thyroid isn't good either even if the recovery is fast compared to HPTA


 Would you know if I stop taking t3 now ( been on 6 weeks at 50mcg ) I'll get the weight gain rebound?

im already in a surplus trying to gain weight but don't wanna gain any additional fat to what I normally would


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> im currently on t3 50mcg a day. I'm bulking also.
> 
> ive read there is a better nutritional partioning with supplementation of t3 is this true?
> 
> if true which dose would be optimal for this during a calorie surplus?
> 
> i started using t3 to cut but changed to a bulk shortly after starting.
> 
> ive been taking 50mcg for about 6 weeks. If I were to just stop taking now would I get rebound effects from supplementing with t3 - greater weight gain than before ( I'm in a surplus ) ?
> 
> If the first question I asked isn't true
> 
> whats my best bet for stopping t3 at this stage without gaining loads of fat ?
> 
> thanks


 The only compounds that will really affect nutrient partitioning are AAS and GH/Insulin. The T3 partitioning is pure bro-science BS made up on the forums years ago with zero evidence or logic.

You can cold turkey the T3, you aren't going to gain tons of fat. Just make sure you stay active while your natural level recovers and don't eat at a surplus. Some people get tired while they recover their natural thyroid production and this can lead to less calories burned which could lead to some fat gain. You would have to be at a significant surplus to gain a meaningful amount of fat and the way you do that is by being sedentary and eating too many calories.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> don't use it mate
> 
> not worth it . and having low T4 and hyperthyroidism isn't good neither.. I've used 25mcg T3 for really long time and I paid the price . shitty skin / hair loss from almost 0 levels of T4. (T4 is important for skin health, hair health and other things)
> 
> What people don't realize is that when you f**k your body homeostasis with hormones/meds it disrupts everything and can lead to problems you don't realize immediately.
> 
> Suppressing your thyroid isn't good either even if the recovery is fast compared to HPTA


 Most people don't realized that T4 has it's own essential purposes independent of it's conversion of T3. It gets parroted a lot that T3 is the main active hormone and the only thing that matters. T4 does a lot, and certain tissues can only get their proper amount of T3 when T4 enters the cell and converts inside it and are poor utilizers of serum T3. The research and science is out there proving this, and some people who take T3 only for long periods of time will experience brain fog and other issues. The hair, brain and kidneys need T4 to run optimally among other tissues.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Would you know if I stop taking t3 now ( been on 6 weeks at 50mcg ) I'll get the weight gain rebound?
> 
> im already in a surplus trying to gain weight but don't wanna gain any additional fat to what I normally would


 You will be fine. I always recommend a surplus of 200-500 max to limit fat gain.


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> The only compounds that will really affect nutrient partitioning are AAS and GH/Insulin. The T3 partitioning is pure bro-science BS made up on the forums years ago with zero evidence or logic.
> 
> You can cold turkey the T3, you aren't going to gain tons of fat. Just make sure you stay active while your natural level recovers and don't eat at a surplus. Some people get tired while they recover their natural thyroid production and this can lead to less calories burned which could lead to some fat gain. You would have to be at a significant surplus to gain a meaningful amount of fat and the way you do that is by being sedentary and eating too many calories.


 Thanks for the reply.

im trying to gain strength at the moment so am now thinking of continuing the t3 for the next 8-10 weeks of my bulk to avoid the fatigue and wastin my AAS drugs I have in me.

will I be completely supresssd from 6 weeks of t3 supplemtation ?

If you think I could get away with continuing the way I am now and stopping the t3 I will.

Or do u think I should wait till the end of my bulking before stopping ?


----------



## Baka

Jaling said:


> Would you know if I stop taking t3 now ( been on 6 weeks at 50mcg ) I'll get the weight gain rebound?
> 
> im already in a surplus trying to gain weight but don't wanna gain any additional fat to what I normally would


 well I didn't go off completely but took 12.5mcg for 2 weeks then 6.25mcg for 2 weeks. I didn't get any rebound fat , maybe because of that Idk.

but like elchapo said you should be fine even if you go off without tapering


----------



## Jaling

Baka said:


> well I didn't go off completely but took 12.5mcg for 2 weeks then 6.25mcg for 2 weeks. I didn't get any rebound fat , maybe because of that Idk.
> 
> but like elchapo said you should be fine even if you go off without tapering


 How's long was you on the t3 for when tapering like this and not getting rebound weight gain?

was it pharma t3 u used?

was you in a surplus/bulk ?

did you get fatigue or any other effects from tapering like this?

thabks


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> The only way i recommend it as useful is alongside another fat burner to enhance it's effects


 Do you think 25mcg would suffice for this ^^


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Do you think 25mcg would suffice for this ^^


 Yep, "technically" it's a replacement dose, but in practice it works. I've experiment with all kinds of doses and combinations of T4/T3. Even low doses T3 makes me more sensitive to coffee. I drink 6 cups a day, and i get a stim buzz when i take T3 from my usual dose of coffee that just makes me feel normal.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> im trying to gain strength at the moment so am now thinking of continuing the t3 for the next 8-10 weeks of my bulk to avoid the fatigue and wastin my AAS drugs I have in me.
> 
> will I be completely supresssd from 6 weeks of t3 supplemtation ?
> 
> If you think I could get away with continuing the way I am now and stopping the t3 I will.
> 
> Or do u think I should wait till the end of my bulking before stopping ?


 Don't over think things, either choice won't make a difference. Your bulk results will come down to 3 things :

1. Caloric surplus 2. progressive overload 3. sufficient recovery/rest time


----------



## Baka

Jaling said:


> How's long was you on the t3 for when tapering like this and not getting rebound weight gain?
> 
> was it pharma t3 u used?
> 
> was you in a surplus/bulk ?
> 
> did you get fatigue or any other effects from tapering like this?
> 
> thabks


 1-2 year straight , Pharma T3.

i was on surplus and deficit , no fatigue or bad sides when I tapered. felt better while tapering then on 25mcg .

As I said before , the T3 accumulates everyday , so the first weeks are ok then I started getting high T3 side effects like anxiety , hand tremors etc.

I preferred stopping completely playing with my thyroids , less risks less money wasted less pills to take less sides.

Now I only add more cardio if I want to lose fat


----------



## Jaling

Baka said:


> 1-2 year straight , Pharma T3.
> 
> i was on surplus and deficit , no fatigue or bad sides when I tapered. felt better while tapering then on 25mcg .


 When you say surplus and deficit.

do u mean that you was in a surplus from a metabolic point but from your usual intake without recovery from t3 u was in a deficit ?

or each day you ate differently ?


----------



## Baka

Jaling said:


> When you say surplus and deficit.
> 
> do u mean that you was in a surplus from a metabolic point but from your usual intake without recovery from t3 u was in a deficit ?
> 
> or each day you ate differently ?


 what I meant was : I was on a surplus for 6 months then deficit for 3 for example


----------



## Jaling

Baka said:


> what I meant was : I was on a surplus for 6 months then deficit for 3 for example


 Sorry man but I meant during the recovery period was you in a surplus or deficit ?


----------



## Jaydan

*
Hi
*

Im currently having some serious erection issues. I cannot get a hard on. I can still ejaculate and it feels good but its with a soft penis and it takes a while.

A week ago i finished a 600 test cyp /400 tren e cycle but i had stop because i felt heavy anxiety/no hunger/lethargy Today i still feel this anxiety/lethargy, i think it is still the tren e but im also afraid it might be crashed estrogen. Currently still running 600 test cyp. During this cycle i had no ED issues. While on this cycle i was running 0,5 Mg adex MWF. In the past i frequently ran 0,5 adex EOD and had no issues so im really in the dark here. Did i crash estro or is my estro too high because i think im getting sides from both. While on tren i was running 0,5mg caber twice a week for prolactin. Also libido is not the issue, i want sex so bad. I just cant get it up.

I just got some proviron and cialis today so i hope this will help.


----------



## Baka

Jaling said:


> Sorry man but I meant during the recovery period was you in a surplus or deficit ?


 small surplus


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> *
> Hi
> *
> 
> Im currently having some serious erection issues. I cannot get a hard on. I can still ejaculate and it feels good but its with a soft penis and it takes a while.
> 
> A week ago i finished a 600 test cyp /400 tren e cycle but i had stop because i felt heavy anxiety/no hunger/lethargy Today i still feel this anxiety/lethargy, i think it is still the tren e but im also afraid it might be crashed estrogen. Currently still running 600 test cyp. During this cycle i had no ED issues. While on this cycle i was running 0,5 Mg adex MWF. In the past i frequently ran 0,5 adex EOD and had no issues so im really in the dark here. Did i crash estro or is my estro too high because i think im getting sides from both. While on tren i was running 0,5mg caber twice a week for prolactin. Also libido is not the issue, i want sex so bad. I just cant get it up.
> 
> I just got some proviron and cialis today so i hope this will help.


 This is a very common side effect of tren, especially when ran with testosterone. It's unlikely that amount of adex crashed your E2 at that level of testosterone (if the test is accurately dosed)

Wait for the tren E to clear your system, you just stopped taking it. Your erections will probably come back soon.

It's always smart to carry cialis when running tren or deca as ED is very common. I always push for people to carry cialis and ralox/nolvadex to cover the two most common sides of tren/deca; ED and gyno.


----------



## Pancake'

What advantages is EPO providing in combat sports and or endurance athletes? is it solely the increase in RBC? The recent TJ Dillashaw and HW boxer Jarell Miller have both popped for it.

Millers rumoured stack; Cardarine, EPO, HGH, but no AAS? what benefits could a HW boxer really expect from such a concoction? it's interesting as no positive for AAS. I'm just trying to decipher the advantages he attempted to possess over Joshua.

Would you say dumbbell pressing is superior than barbell ohp for shoulder development?

Any real benefits to carbs intra workout? Particularly if in fasted state.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What advantages is EPO providing in combat sports and or endurance athletes? is it solely the increase in RBC? The recent TJ Dillashaw and HW boxer Jarell Miller have both popped for it.
> 
> Millers rumoured stack; Cardarine, EPO, HGH, but no AAS? what benefits could a HW boxer really expect from such a concoction? it's interesting as no positive for AAS. I'm just trying to decipher the advantages he attempted to possess over Joshua.
> 
> Would you say dumbbell pressing is superior than barbell ohp for shoulder development?
> 
> Any real benefits to carbs intra workout? Particularly if in fasted state.


 In sports, it's more about recovery and endurance than raw strength. That stack would provide all the above including strength while being harder to detect than AAS. (obviously didnt work)

Everyone in the top level of sports is doping ( at least most) , most people don't get caught. If you understand the mentality of the top 1% in any field, they will use any advantage to stay on top.

I feel dumbbell pressing is superior but once you get really strong, the dumbbells can get unwieldy sometimes. I recommend a combination of both barbell and dumbbell. 5-12 reps barbell, 10-16 for dumbbell. Overhead pressing also hit the triceps and upper pecs pretty well which is a nice bonus. Make sure to perform valsalva and keep your abs contracted to protect your back and increase stability and power transfer during the lift.

Some research shows intra-workout carbs have performance benefits, i don't think it's something to pay mind to. As long as you go into your workout with maxed out glycogen stores in your muscle, performance will be optimal. Intraworkout carbs would no longer make the workout count as "fasted".


----------



## zariph

Hello

What will cause most damage to health long term/permament sides - tren or deca?

I know that tren can be really harsh when using it, but if one is feeling fine on tren, will it then be just as "healthy" to run tren as to run deca?


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> If you understand the mentality of the top 1% in any field, they will use any advantage to stay on top.


 Rich Piana said it best. "Whatever it takes."

What's your stance on today's drug testing of top tier athletes?

Ultimately how corrupt would you say UFC & Bellator is? and do you believe Dana has 'favourites' who get the free pass or he turns blind eye towards.

Thanks


----------



## Sasnak

Pancake' said:


> Ultimately corrupt


 What about the asthmatic kid you knew at school, you know, the one who couldn't run more than 25 yards without collapsing gasping for air?

So how come so many professional cyclists are supposedly asthmatic?

I'd refer you to the part of your post that I've quoted.


----------



## Pancake'

Sasnak said:


> What about the asthmatic kid you knew at school, you know, the one who couldn't run more than 25 yards without collapsing gasping for air?
> 
> So how come so many professional cyclists are supposedly asthmatic?
> 
> I'd refer you to the part of your post that I've quoted.


 Missed the *how

But I hear you, when money's at stake.... rules are bended. It's interesting to understand the measures and how cunning the elites of sport will become. iirc it was Tyson who p*ssed with a fake penis.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello
> 
> What will cause most damage to health long term/permament sides - tren or deca?
> 
> I know that tren can be really harsh when using it, but if one is feeling fine on tren, will it then be just as "healthy" to run tren as to run deca?


 Tren, no question.

Not at all, you can't "feel" the damage AAS causes to the body, main one's being heart structural changes and stiffening/narrowing/calcification of the arteries.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Rich Piana said it best. "Whatever it takes."
> 
> What's your stance on today's drug testing of top tier athletes?
> 
> Ultimately how corrupt would you say UFC & Bellator is? and do you believe Dana has 'favourites' who get the free pass or he turns blind eye towards.
> 
> Thanks


 Super corrupt, look at the Jon Jones tbol controversy. It's 100% fact that he popped for it again and was using, yet they tried to angle it as if he could somehow be clean even though his test popped clean then dirty. Dana must have payed off the USADA big time. to protect Jones, this is a guy with multiple offenses and he gets off scott-free. Amazing and dirty as hell. Most fighters are using, it's just a question of who can beat the tests.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Tren, no question.
> 
> Not at all, you can't "feel" the damage AAS causes to the body, main one's being heart structural changes and stiffening/narrowing/calcification of the arteries.


 So you saying tren will be far worse to run than deca? Is tren even worth running if not going to compete?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> So you saying tren will be far worse to run than deca? Is tren even worth running if not going to compete?


 Tren is generally overrated in my opinion & experience. Lots of side effects like gyno, noodle dick, low libido, mood swings, insomnia, digestive issues, etc.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Tren is generally overrated in my opinion & experience. Lots of side effects like gyno, noodle dick, low libido, mood swings, insomnia, digestive issues, etc.


 okay so even if I dont get any real side effects from tren, it will still be way safer to run something like test+deca+win? Will tren still be harsher long term effects?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay so even if I dont get any real side effects from tren, it will still be way safer to run something like test+deca+win? Will tren still be harsher long term effects?


 I woulnd't worry about the "safety" of any individual steroid. All steroids are harmful to your health when abused. (high doses for long periods of time).

1. Limit your cycle length and doses, 2. always do cardio year round, 3. never go over 15% bodyfat.


----------



## Pancake'

Any books you read lately and can recommend?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

would adding 200mg mast on top of 250mg test E a good idea for summer ?

I'd like to take 200mg for 10 weeks ,I used to love mast but I started getting real bad hair loss and acne/dirty skin. I used to take 300-400mg.

Its been a long time since I didn't touch it and I ve got one vial left .

Does mast affect blood pressure much ? what about RBC / hematocrit compared to test for example ?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Any books you read lately and can recommend?


 The intelligent investor by Benjamin Graham


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> would adding 200mg mast on top of 250mg test E a good idea for summer ?
> 
> I'd like to take 200mg for 10 weeks ,I used to love mast but I started getting real bad hair loss and acne/dirty skin. I used to take 300-400mg.
> 
> Its been a long time since I didn't touch it and I ve got one vial left .
> 
> Does mast affect blood pressure much ? what about RBC / hematocrit compared to test for example ?


 Mast is overrated. I don't recommend it usually.

It usually won't affect BP/RBC/HCT, it's very mild but so are it's benefits.


----------



## Mickstar

Hi mate I've finished my first cycle of 300 test e about 12 weeks ago, thinking about going on my second in a month or 2 just trying to get leaner and make the most of it. I was thinking 400-450 for my 2nd cycle as I want to make the most out of each cycle I do. Im trying to get under the 15% bodyfat and bulk upto that as previously id bulk on 15%,Would you say that test only cycles are the safest approach to using peds as can be , and what would your advice be for longevity and health wise using peds.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Is there any "RDA" "micronutrient requirement for athletes" tables for athletes?

What's the best sodiumotassium ratio to look bone dry? Usually i use 1:2 sodiumotassium.


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi mate I've finished my first cycle of 300 test e about 12 weeks ago, thinking about going on my second in a month or 2 just trying to get leaner and make the most of it. I was thinking 400-450 for my 2nd cycle as I want to make the most out of each cycle I do. Im trying to get under the 15% bodyfat and bulk upto that as previously id bulk on 15%,Would you say that test only cycles are the safest approach to using peds as can be , and what would your advice be for longevity and health wise using peds.


 Limit cycles to 16 weeks max, make sure you do cardio year round, make sure BP/hematocrit/E2 are well controlled.

Sure testosterone is the safest, but it's not like running tren or deca a few times a year is going to make your heart explode. If you aren't abusing these drugs, you will be fine.

Someone on test only who blasts high doses, year round, doesn't do cardio and has high BP and HCT will be a lot worse off than someone who cycles harsher compounds more responsibly.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Is there any "RDA" "micronutrient requirement for athletes" tables for athletes?
> 
> What's the best sodiumotassium ratio to look bone dry? Usually i use 1:2 sodiumotassium.


 Generally, athletes who sweat a lot will lose more zinc and other electrolytes/minerals. If you have a balance diet or take good supplements, you won't any issues.

It's best not to mess with potassium too much. just try to get enough potassium from diet or supplement with the table potassium salt. If you wanna look dry ; low body fat+winstrol and stick to test p at lower doses (300 mg per week max). This is safer and less annoying than messing with electrolytes.


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> This is a very common side effect of tren, especially when ran with testosterone. It's unlikely that amount of adex crashed your E2 at that level of testosterone (if the test is accurately dosed)
> 
> Wait for the tren E to clear your system, you just stopped taking it. Your erections will probably come back soon.
> 
> It's always smart to carry cialis when running tren or deca as ED is very common. I always push for people to carry cialis and ralox/nolvadex to cover the two most common sides of tren/deca; ED and gyno.


 The thing is, even cialis did not work yesterday. I was very aroused but still it did not move...


----------



## Baka

Jaydan said:


> The thing is, even cialis did not work yesterday. I was very aroused but still it did not move...


 bad blood circulation from high RBC/hematocrit ?


----------



## SoberHans

Anything you can recommend to help me sleep more, apart from melatonin, tried that and it didn't work?

I often wake up multiple times a night and sometimes I can't back to sleep then spend all day tired, feeling anxious and not sociable. I always go to bed and try to wake up at the same time but still it's no help.

I'm only on a trt dose of test and nothing else.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Pancake'

Elchapo you really should just write a guide or two and have it stickied as you'll likely just keep getting asked and answering the same sh*t repetitively. I try to shift away question topics as I already know you love winstrol etc. as always very appreciative you take the time to answer questions.


----------



## Jaydan

Baka said:


> bad blood circulation from high RBC/hematocrit ?


 No idea, still think its estrogen related since im feeling anxious, no appetite etc. Getting blood results on monday. Did get morning wood for a minute though


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> The thing is, even cialis did not work yesterday. I was very aroused but still it did not move...


 Yeah, so even more likely that it's tren dick. This is why people warn others about tren, it's got some serious side effects.


----------



## Malin

What's the word on protein intake while on cycle, is more protein per KG of BW needed when you're on gear?


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, so even more likely that it's tren dick. This is why people warn others about tren, it's got some serious side effects.


 I hope it clears together with the anxiety and lethargy then. Dropped my test to 300 this week. How should i go about dosing my adex? Just wait for bloods on monday and go from there? I keep proviron in at 100mg ed


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> What's the word on protein intake while on cycle, is more protein per KG of BW needed when you're on gear?


 Nope, people consume more protein than they need already.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> I hope it clears together with the anxiety and lethargy then. Dropped my test to 300 this week. How should i go about dosing my adex? Just wait for bloods on monday and go from there? I keep proviron in at 100mg ed


 Bloods won't mean s**t because trenbolone is going to pop up as E2 so you won't have a clue what's going on.

Have you ran test before solo?


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> Bloods won't mean s**t because trenbolone is going to pop up as E2 so you won't have a clue what's going on.
> 
> Have you ran test before solo?


 Yes at 300mg/wk test cyp. With adex 0,25 mg mwf is my sweet spot


----------



## Malin

ElChapo said:


> Nope, people consume more protein than they need already.


 Is any more than the usual 1g per 1lb of BW not necessary then?


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> Yes at 300mg/wk test cyp. With adex 0,25 mg mwf is my sweet spot


 So run that, definitely drop the tren and don't use it for future cycles. Some people have nasty side effects like yours, others respond better.

I recommend winstrol or superdrol as a substitute for tren.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Is any more than the usual 1g per 1lb of BW not necessary then?


 Definitely not, 1 g per 1 lbs will be more than enough. You actually require less protein when bulking.


----------



## SlinMeister

Pancake' said:


> Elchapo you really should just write a guide or two and have it stickied as you'll likely just keep getting asked and answering the same sh*t repetitively. I try to shift away question topics as I already know you love winstrol etc. as always very appreciative you take the time to answer questions.


 Oh yes cut guide, bulk guide, cruise guide LOL 

He is also so kind to answer ALWAYS to the same questions.

Regarding his choice about Winstrol, he is spot on 100%.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Did you ever tried Injectable Stanolone?

Atm I am cutting on 300 TestP 700 TrenA 300 Stanolone 3iu Saizen ed 1mg Adex 50mcg T3 40mcg Clen and damn I have never looked so good and strong before..... (Only on 300 TestP 300 TrenA 700 Winny :lol: )

Stanolone look wise is really strong.... Pretty hard to find also...


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Oh yes cut guide, bulk guide, cruise guide LOL
> 
> He is also so kind to answer ALWAYS to the same questions.
> 
> Regarding his choice about Winstrol, he is spot on 100%.


 @Pancake'

I don't mind too much, it refreshes my memory of what i know and sometimes i have new information or experience on a subject.

The best way to learn is to teach. You don't have a good understanding of something if you can't break it down and explain it as simply as possible.

Winstrol and Superdrol, now those are steroids.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Did you ever tried Injectable Stanolone?
> 
> Atm I am cutting on 300 TestP 700 TrenA 300 Stanolone 3iu Saizen ed 1mg Adex 50mcg T3 40mcg Clen and damn I have never looked so good and strong before..... (Only on 300 TestP 300 TrenA 700 Winny :lol: )
> 
> Stanolone look wise is really strong.... Pretty hard to find also...


 I've always wanted to try it. I've heard it has a decent drying effect and can cause a lot of oil production/greasy skin. My buddy and i were gonna order some raws and make some but never got around to it.

Your stack is solid as mentioned before. I've always been fascinated by the DHT (stanolone) hormone and it's positive/negative effects on the body.


----------



## BULK

@El Chapo what do you recommend for a first time user of insulin? Novo.


----------



## SoberHans

SoberHans said:


> Anything you can recommend to help me sleep more, apart from melatonin, tried that and it didn't work?
> 
> I often wake up multiple times a night and sometimes I can't back to sleep then spend all day tired, feeling anxious and not sociable. I always go to bed and try to wake up at the same time but still it's no help.
> 
> I'm only on a trt dose of test and nothing else.
> 
> Thanks in advance


 You missed my question mate, sorry to bother you again.

Out of my interest, for example for chest, personally how many times a week do you train it and on average how many working sets would you do?

Thanks


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> @Pancake'
> 
> I don't mind too much, it refreshes my memory of what i know and sometimes i have new information or experience on a subject.
> 
> The best way to learn is to teach. You don't have a good understanding of something if you can't break it down and explain it as simply as possible.
> 
> Winstrol and Superdrol, now those are steroids.


 Yes winstrol is fantastic! Tried it after seeing you reccomend it several times and it really is great. Don't wanna come off the stuff lol strength shoots right up but the best thing about it for me is that tight dry grainy look. Feel good on it too.

Will have to try superdrol next. Like winny is it best ran lower bf or can it be used higher bf towards end of a bulk?


----------



## Malin

Re T3 that's just been discussed on the previous page - would running a dose of 25mcg a day alongside Tren from start to finish be a good idea then?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I woulnd't worry about the "safety" of any individual steroid. All steroids are harmful to your health when abused. (high doses for long periods of time).
> 
> 1. Limit your cycle length and doses, 2. always do cardio year round, 3. never go over 15% bodyfat.


 Thank you!

Reason im asking is because its hard to find any long term side effects of deca vs tren, so would appreciate if you could tell which long term effects they carry and how much compared to each other?

Maybe hard question to ask, but maybe you could give a general view on it.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would you recommend superdrol for someone who s training for strength ? and for how long/what dosage?

I'd think 20-30mg / day for 4 weeks would be more then enough .

I don't think I'll use ,at least not for now but I remember taking 10mg and having good effects


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Re T3 that's just been discussed on the previous page - would running a dose of 25mcg a day alongside Tren from start to finish be a good idea then?


 You won't notice much benefit. In my opinion, the trouble and money to acquire T3 isn't worth any minimal benefit you might notice.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Reason im asking is because its hard to find any long term side effects of deca vs tren, so would appreciate if you could tell which long term effects they carry and how much compared to each other?
> 
> Maybe hard question to ask, but maybe you could give a general view on it.


 All steroids can cause structural changes in the heart and hardening/stiffening/calcification of the arteries. Winstrol and tren will probably be the worst offenders, but they can all do this to some extent. Time on and dosage will be the main factors, as well as your own genetics when it comes to heart disease and how well you control your blood pressure, etc.

I would not worry about it if you are a responsible AAS user or dont have family history.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would you recommend superdrol for someone who s training for strength ? and for how long/what dosage?
> 
> I'd think 20-30mg / day for 4 weeks would be more then enough .
> 
> I don't think I'll use ,at least not for now but I remember taking 10mg and having good effects


 Yeah, superdrol is really good for strength gains. I would run it 12 weeks. That dose is good. I've used 40 mg x 3 per week injectable with really good results.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, superdrol is really good for strength gains. I would run it 12 weeks. That dose is good. I've used 40 mg x 3 per week injectable with really good results.


 i see. is it hard on lipids like anavar or worse ?

how much TUDCA on it ? 1000mg ?

you'd advice injectable ? I know oral SD gave me really bad stomach bloat and freaking lethargy even at 10mg

and why only 3 times a week ? half life is 48 h ?


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> So run that, definitely drop the tren and don't use it for future cycles. Some people have nasty side effects like yours, others respond better.
> 
> I recommend winstrol or superdrol as a substitute for tren.


 Ok so i got the bloodresults back!
Got bloods done on thursday afternoon.

Monday: 300 mg test cyp
Tuesday: 0,5 mg adex
Wednesday: 0,75 mg adex
Thursday (morning of bloods): 0,5 mg adex

Testosterone free: 49,6 - Testosterone total: 1360
Estradiol: 71
LH - FSH: Both under 0,3.

So turns out it was high estrogen + tren e sides. Yesterday i had typical high estrogen sides (hot flashes, acne, got an erection but couldn't keep it. Did manage to have sex though!). So today took 1 mg adex, gonna keep my proviron at 100mg ED and just gonna run 300 test cyp/wk


----------



## Baka

Jaydan said:


> Ok so i got the bloodresults back!
> Got bloods done on thursday afternoon.
> 
> Monday: 300 mg test cyp
> Tuesday: 0,5 mg adex
> Wednesday: 0,75 mg adex
> Thursday (morning of bloods): 0,5 mg adex
> 
> Testosterone free: 49,6 - Testosterone total: 1360
> Estradiol: 71
> LH - FSH: Both under 0,3.
> 
> So turns out it was high estrogen + tren e sides. Yesterday i had typical high estrogen sides (hot flashes, acne, got an erection but couldn't keep it. Did manage to have sex though!). So today took 1 mg adex, gonna keep my proviron at 100mg ED and just gonna run 300 test cyp/wk


 1360 test levels on 300mg is low

i had 900mg natural , 2500 on 250mg


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> i see. is it hard on lipids like anavar or worse ?
> 
> how much TUDCA on it ? 1000mg ?
> 
> you'd advice injectable ? I know oral SD gave me really bad stomach bloat and freaking lethargy even at 10mg
> 
> and why only 3 times a week ? half life is 48 h ?


 No need for TUDCA unless running really high doses or for longer periods of time. Liver toxicity is overrated, as long as you don't abuse orals or drink alcohol/take liver toxic drugs with them, you will be fine. Dosage of UDCA/TUDCA is 250-500 mg daily.

Injectable sdrol still gave me a little lethargy and appetite suppression but the strength and pump is amazing, it also dries me out. It's an amazing compound.

3 times a week for convenience and worked fine, not sure about the half-life but it's irrelevant, people obsess too much over half-life and steady levels, these things don't matter in the long run, try it and see.

Orals have extremely short half lives in hours, yet they still work with once daily dosing. Why is that? because of gene expression changes independent of serum levels. Non-genomic effects rely on serum levels to be constant ( like the stimulant effect from caffeine), Genomic (gene-expression) effects can last after a compound is out of the system.

Don't worry about lipids so much, as long as you don't cook your lipids year round, you should be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> Ok so i got the bloodresults back!
> Got bloods done on thursday afternoon.
> 
> Monday: 300 mg test cyp
> Tuesday: 0,5 mg adex
> Wednesday: 0,75 mg adex
> Thursday (morning of bloods): 0,5 mg adex
> 
> Testosterone free: 49,6 - Testosterone total: 1360
> Estradiol: 71
> LH - FSH: Both under 0,3.
> 
> So turns out it was high estrogen + tren e sides. Yesterday i had typical high estrogen sides (hot flashes, acne, got an erection but couldn't keep it. Did manage to have sex though!). So today took 1 mg adex, gonna keep my proviron at 100mg ED and just gonna run 300 test cyp/wk


 Trenbolone makes E2 appear high, i told you this before.

If your E2 test is not LC/MS, then the test will pick up the trenbolone as estradiol. Most E2 blood tests use the ECLIA method because it's cheaper.

Only LC/MS assay will be able to distinguish E2 from trenbolone.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> 1360 test levels on 300mg is low
> 
> i had 900mg natural , 2500 on 250mg


 Not necessarily, those levels look right for 300 mg.

The studies show around 1,300 ng/dL trough levels on 300 mg of long ester testosterone, so his levels are solid.

Levels will vary depending on your genetics and the quality/concentration of the oil you are using. Some UGLs will under or overdose their oils. Some people break testosterone down faster which will make their levels appear lower on high doses than others and vice/versa.


----------



## SoberHans

SoberHans said:


> You missed my question mate, sorry to bother you again.
> 
> Out of my interest, for example for chest, personally how many times a week do you train it and on average how many working sets would you do?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, superdrol is really good for strength gains. I would run it 12 weeks. That dose is good. I've used 40 mg x 3 per week injectable with really good results.


 Would you suggest your dosing protocol for the 12 week duration for someone wanting to gain mainly strength ?

@El Chapo just read a reply to someone regarding your reasons for dosing. I'm happy with dosing 3x week for convenience. No need to reply to this unless you see otherwise.

thanks


----------



## 19072

@El Chapo I'm about to jump on a new cycle - 125mg test / 200mg mast / 400mg tren.

With it being all long esters am I good for 1 inj per week ? 3.5ml total it is..


----------



## stewedw

Thoughts on this list, what is worth it or not and the pitfalls? It from a UK based company aiming these things at bbders mainly.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Would you suggest your dosing protocol for the 12 week duration for someone wanting to gain mainly strength ?
> 
> @El Chapo just read a reply to someone regarding your reasons for dosing. I'm happy with dosing 3x week for convenience. No need to reply to this unless you see otherwise.
> 
> thanks


 Yeah, 12 weeks is good for strength.


----------



## ElChapo

For lagging body parts i recommend x 2-3 per week. Both heavy and high rep training. Focus on getting very strong on bench but also hit a lot of high volume pec deck and/or dumbbell press. Make sure you are in a caloric surplus so your body can build new muscle. That's my approach, and it has worked for me and others.


----------



## ElChapo

herc said:


> @El Chapo I'm about to jump on a new cycle - 125mg test / 200mg mast / 400mg tren.
> 
> With it being all long esters am I good for 1 inj per week ? 3.5ml total it is..


 Yeah, once per week is fine with long esters. Some people DO metabolize very fast and do benefit from twice weekly injections with long esters, but most people do fine once per week.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Thoughts on this list, what is worth it or not and the pitfalls? It from a UK based company aiming these things at bbders mainly.
> 
> View attachment 171371
> 
> 
> View attachment 171373


 You're better off just buying a solid multivitamin ( Now foods true balance/Orange triad ) and vitamin D/Magnesium separately. I'm not really into the SARMs. AAS do the job fine.


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> Trenbolone makes E2 appear high, i told you this before.
> 
> If your E2 test is not LC/MS, then the test will pick up the trenbolone as estradiol. Most E2 blood tests use the ECLIA method because it's cheaper.
> 
> Only LC/MS assay will be able to distinguish E2 from trenbolone.


 So it now has been almost 2 weeks since my last tren e jab (200mg). Test wise, last monday i took 300mg and starting from this week im splitting that dose on monday and friday (150-150mg). Like i said i took 1mg adex 2 days ago and today 0,25 mg adex because i still think estro is too high. Today i still have so much trouble getting an erection, when i do get one its gone after 2 minutes. Now i always used UG lab adex but i still have a box of pfizer aromasin. Do you think it would help to switch to aromasin (6,25mg dose) as of tomorrow? Since its a suicidal AI. Because in my head these are my typical high estro symptoms (hard getting an erection and not maintaining one, feeling kinda emotional). Last time in my life i touch that tren poison lol. Also thanks for all your previous answers man, you have been a great help so far


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> So it now has been almost 2 weeks since my last tren e jab (200mg). Test wise, last monday i took 300mg and starting from this week im splitting that dose on monday and friday (150-150mg). Like i said i took 1mg adex 2 days ago and today 0,25 mg adex because i still think estro is too high. Today i still have so much trouble getting an erection, when i do get one its gone after 2 minutes. Now i always used UG lab adex but i still have a box of pfizer aromasin. Do you think it would help to switch to aromasin (6,25mg dose) as of tomorrow? Since its a suicidal AI. Because in my head these are my typical high estro symptoms (hard getting an erection and not maintaining one, feeling kinda emotional). Last time in my life i touch that tren poison lol. Also thanks for all your previous answers man, you have been a great help so far


 That's why they always tell you to run tren ace your first time. If you run tren E and s**t hits the fan, it takes a while for the stuff to leave your system.

Trenbolone has the same side effects as high E2. You need to let the s**t get out of your body. Yes, it's basically overrated garbage for people who are poor responders. Try some superdrol or winstrol next time. You won't be disappointed.

My pleasure helping out, no worries man. Been there in your shoes, it sucks but all will be fine.


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> That's why they always tell you to run tren ace your first time. If you run tren E and s**t hits the fan, it takes a while for the stuff to leave your system.
> 
> Trenbolone has the same side effects as high E2. You need to let the s**t get out of your body. Yes, it's basically overrated garbage for people who are poor responders. Try some superdrol or winstrol next time. You won't be disappointed.
> 
> My pleasure helping out, no worries man. Been there in your shoes, it sucks but all will be fine.


 Yeah man gonna stay away from any 19nors. Also had some issues with npp. Any thoughts on switching the adex to the aromasin?


----------



## Matt6210

Sam R said:


> Thanks for the advice much appreciated. Have just spoken to my trainer who says I will be drug tested when I have my medical in August to get my amateur licence. I decided to blast and cruise as soon as I started using anabolics and will continue this for the rest of my life. To avoid showing up as positive for anabolics, is it as simple as running a TRT dose and making sure all long esters are completely clear? Would hate to fail the test as I'd be banned from the amateurs for life.


 In this thread your admitting to drug use, asking how to pass tests, while saying how much it means to you not to be banned.

you just posted pics of yourself bro, while it is a very long shot admittedly you don't know who's reading this.....


----------



## PSevens2017

Sam R said:


> Yh you make a good point mate I've deleted the posts made by me


 No you haven't. Just seen your pics/ID mate. On the previous page to this.


----------



## 19072

PSevens2017 said:


> No you haven't. Just seen your pics/ID mate. On the previous page to this.


 That is his quoted post by another member which he won't be able to remove u less the member in quote removes it


----------



## 19072

Sam R said:


> Yh you make a good point mate I've deleted the posts made by me


 If your wanting to run aas for competitive sports. I would suggest low dose test, hgh and some anavar.

Also realise that running TRT won't enable you to pass a drug test. You need to have your t/e ratio correct (testosterone to epitestosterone)

running TRT will effect this. Unless you know how to beat the system then good luck.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> Yeah man gonna stay away from any 19nors. Also had some issues with npp. Any thoughts on switching the adex to the aromasin?


 You're doing too much at one time. Just let the tren run it's course. You already said you know how you handle 300 mg testosterone and how much AI you need to control e2, so stick with what you know.


----------



## ElChapo

?


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Mate I have noticed a tendency of some people to run low test with high anabolics.

What do you think about this strategy?

Why all Pros and big guys that I see are on high test?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Mate I have noticed a tendency of some people to run low test with high anabolics.
> 
> What do you think about this strategy?
> 
> Why all Pros and big guys that I see are on high test?


 Test is king as the saying goes. The latest fad is low test / high anabolics. For best strength and mass results moderate-high test will give you the best results. Higher test comes with the price of having to manage E2 but well worth it. Another bonus is the low cost of testosterone.

If you are trying to keep weight down for sports, generally, low test is recommend for less weight gain and water retention, but for optimal strength and mass, test should be equal or higher to your other anabolics.

Basically, it's just the current fad to run low test.


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> You're doing too much at one time. Just let the tren run it's course. You already said you know how you handle 300 mg testosterone and how much AI you need to control e2, so stick with what you know.


 Ok first of all sorry to keep bothering you haha, i just have alot of questions and finally someone who has the knowledge to anwser them. I was thinking that it may be high prolactine (my doc did not mention prolactin value). Since i stopped caber on the day of my last tren jab, isnt it possible that my prolactine is now too high because tren e is still in my body but theres no more caber? Because on cycle i had no erection issues (took 0,5mg caber twice a week) and erections when on cycle were perfect


----------



## Playtowin

6 vs 8iu eod of Pharma HGH (Hilma Bio) for rotator cuff injury / fat loss / muscle growth (if bulking) / sleep.

Will the extra 7iu a week make much difference? It costs quite a bit more to do so curious.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> Ok first of all sorry to keep bothering you haha, i just have alot of questions and finally someone who has the knowledge to anwser them. I was thinking that it may be high prolactine (my doc did not mention prolactin value). Since i stopped caber on the day of my last tren jab, isnt it possible that my prolactine is now too high because tren e is still in my body but theres no more caber? Because on cycle i had no erection issues (took 0,5mg caber twice a week) and erections when on cycle were perfect


 Sometimes prolactin can be elevated by 19nors but not often.

The limp dick effect is from the progestin agonist effecy of tren. It is literally a stronger progestin than progesterone.

Its possible but usually the tren dick happens in the middle or towards the end of the cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> 6 vs 8iu eod of Pharma HGH (Hilma Bio) for rotator cuff injury / fat loss / muscle growth (if bulking) / sleep.
> 
> Will the extra 7iu a week make much difference? It costs quite a bit more to do so curious.


 I would dose daily, 21-42 total per week.


----------



## BULK

BULK said:


> @El Chapo what do you recommend for a first time user of insulin? Novo.


 @El Chapo I'm using only on training days, post gym sesh. Started low and built up to 10iu , consuming 10g carbs per iu within 10 minutes of shot then eating a meal again 60 minutes later containing carbs and protein balanced. Then another small meal 60-90 minutes after that one. Oh my carb intake after jab is meltodextrin, protein shake with 20g creatine 5g bcaa. Does this sound ok ?


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Orals have extremely short half lives in hours, yet they still work with once daily dosing. Why is that? because of gene expression changes independent of serum levels. Non-genomic effects rely on serum levels to be constant ( like the stimulant effect from caffeine), Genomic (gene-expression) effects can last after a compound is out of the system.


 Is this the same with injectables?

stable levels don't matter?


----------



## Tricky

I believe I have gyno which I've had from teenage obese years however I think tren has made it worse. I've came off the train and plan to continue on 250mg test only long term.

Should I just being nolva at 20mg per day for the foreseeable future? If so what sides should I expect, will it ruin my sex life?


----------



## shay1490

Been on nolva 20mg for nearly 3 months to get rid of some gyno, Its gone down but along with it, i think my libido and erections have also gone, and i say this because i stopped taking nolva for a week now, and all of a sudden my libido is gtting high again and getting morning glory

does nolva mess up libido.


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> @El Chapo I'm using only on training days, post gym sesh. Started low and built up to 10iu , consuming 10g carbs per iu within 10 minutes of shot then eating a meal again 60 minutes later containing carbs and protein balanced. Then another small meal 60-90 minutes after that one. Oh my carb intake after jab is meltodextrin, protein shake with 20g creatine 5g bcaa. Does this sound ok ?


 Yeah. i would trade the maltodextrin off for some breakfast cereal, pancakes, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Is this the same with injectables?
> 
> stable levels don't matter?


 They only matter to the extent that gene expression stays on. So levels dont have to be super stable, but doesnt mean you can inject every 2 weeks, etc.

I know female competitors that dose test P once a week for instance. witj good results. That's because gene expression keeps working even after levels are very low or even down to zero.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I believe I have gyno which I've had from teenage obese years however I think tren has made it worse. I've came off the train and plan to continue on 250mg test only long term.
> 
> Should I just being nolva at 20mg per day for the foreseeable future? If so what sides should I expect, will it ruin my sex life?


 Do you feel a lump? How low is your body fat?

If it's gyno, running nolva at 20 mg will reverse it in most cases after 6-12 weeks for most people.

Nolva can cause some brain fog and depression in some people, most dont notice any issued at all.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> Been on nolva 20mg for nearly 3 months to get rid of some gyno, Its gone down but along with it, i think my libido and erections have also gone, and i say this because i stopped taking nolva for a week now, and all of a sudden my libido is gtting high again and getting morning glory
> 
> does nolva mess up libido.


 Yes it can. Remember, nolvadex mimicks estrogen but can also act as an estrogen blockers.

SERM / Selective estrogen receptor modulator

In certain tissues, it turns off the estrogen receptor. In this case we use it to turn off the breast receptors to reverse gyno.

In other tissues, like the brain it can act as an estrogen and blocker. This can lead to mood and libido changes.

Raloxifine was made to increase bone density in osteoperosis patients because it activates the estrogen receptor in bone cells, but its also a potent estrogen receptor antagonist in the breast tissue, so its great for gyno reversal.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Do you feel a lump? How low is your body fat?
> 
> If it's gyno, running nolva at 20 mg will reverse it in most cases after 6-12 weeks for most people.
> 
> Nolva can cause some brain fog and depression in some people, most dont notice any issued at all.


 Yes in my right nipple I can feel a slight lump and they are pointy. My body fat is quite high about 20-22% now.

So i can continue on the 250mg test and just add nolva at 20mg per day


----------



## BULK

ElChapo said:


> Yeah. i would trade the maltodextrin off for some breakfast cereal, pancakes, etc.


 Thanks for your reply. Is 10iu enough ed post workout? I've read that it should be 1iu per 10lbs body weight but this seems very high! I weigh 220lbs


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Yes in my right nipple I can feel a slight lump and they are pointy. My body fat is quite high about 20-22% now.
> 
> So i can continue on the 250mg test and just add nolva at 20mg per day


 You shouldn't worry about gyno when you are over 15% body fat. Get that body fat percentage cut down asap. Get yourself at 15% max.

Ideally you should stay between 8-15% year round. Not just for aesthetics, but also health.

Yes.


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> Thanks for your reply. Is 10iu enough ed post workout? I've read that it should be 1iu per 10lbs body weight but this seems very high! I weigh 220lbs


 Are you using GH?


----------



## BULK

ElChapo said:


> Are you using GH?


 Not yet but will be in a few weeks but will be running hgh for 12 months


----------



## Jaydan

ElChapo said:


> Sometimes prolactin can be elevated by 19nors but not often.
> 
> The limp dick effect is from the progestin agonist effecy of tren. It is literally a stronger progestin than progesterone.
> 
> Its possible but usually the tren dick happens in the middle or towards the end of the cycle.


 Yeah thats what i thought, how come it just happened when i stopped the tren? Gonna keep running my 300 test. Any advice on when to get a new bloodtest or when the tren will not show up as estradiol anymore. Not sure i can just ask my doc for the estradiol sensitive test


----------



## gavzilla

Elchapo

Ok I'm needing some advice here. I've just had my bloods done after 6 weeks on Npp which I finished 4-5 weeks ago and I'm 10 weeks in on 500 mg testosterone. All my bloods seem fairly normal but my psa is worryingly way out which has never been like this before on a cycle and my psa is always bottom range. My bloods were done by medichecks and my psa is 6.43. I'm thinking it's out because of the Npp ? First time I've properly used Deca. Also my eostrogen is sky high in the 490 range no wonder I've been so letheric and grumpy. I was using 0.25 arimidex every 48 hrs what do you recommend ? Since Sunday I've went down to 250 mg test e and will lower as I want to blast again in 5-6 weeks. My testosterone is 167 nmol. Hope that makes sense ?


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Currently using DNP at 400mg a day, I'm dropping weight quickly, but look all washed out, is this normal? my cycles on dnp before I always looked decent but the midsection this time looks washed out, would you say this is a natural reaction that can sometimes occur or would you recommend dropping (down about 5kg at the moment)


----------



## swole troll

What is your preferred timing of insulin around a workout

Pre or post ?

I've always used post workout based on the fact that glut4 is already stimulated by training and as such the muscles are already primed to shuttle aminos and glucose into the muscle but I've been more and more intrigued with pre workout usages lately and wondered what your take on it was


----------



## Matt6210

swole troll said:


> What is your preferred timing of insulin around a workout
> 
> Pre or post ?
> 
> I've always used post workout based on the fact that glut4 is already stimulated by training and as such the muscles are already primed to shuttle aminos and glucose into the muscle but I've been more and more intrigued with pre workout usages lately and wondered what your take on it was


 Noticed Chelsea takes 4iu pre and 4iu post mate, think I'm going to give this method a go.


----------



## Simon90

How long does it take roughly for insulin sensitivity to take a hit whilst bulking on very high carbs? And how much of an issue is is insulin sensitivity to an aas user?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Currently using DNP at 400mg a day, I'm dropping weight quickly, but look all washed out, is this normal? my cycles on dnp before I always looked decent but the midsection this time looks washed out, would you say this is a natural reaction that can sometimes occur or would you recommend dropping (down about 5kg at the moment)


 Water retention and flatness are normal side effects. This will make you look shittier than normal


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> Not yet but will be in a few weeks but will be running hgh for 12 months


 I wouldn't run insulin without GH.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> Yeah thats what i thought, how come it just happened when i stopped the tren? Gonna keep running my 300 test. Any advice on when to get a new bloodtest or when the tren will not show up as estradiol anymore. Not sure i can just ask my doc for the estradiol sensitive test


 Could be coincidence or hormone imbalance.


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> Elchapo
> 
> Ok I'm needing some advice here. I've just had my bloods done after 6 weeks on Npp which I finished 4-5 weeks ago and I'm 10 weeks in on 500 mg testosterone. All my bloods seem fairly normal but my psa is worryingly way out which has never been like this before on a cycle and my psa is always bottom range. My bloods were done by medichecks and my psa is 6.43. I'm thinking it's out because of the Npp ? First time I've properly used Deca. Also my eostrogen is sky high in the 490 range no wonder I've been so letheric and grumpy. I was using 0.25 arimidex every 48 hrs what do you recommend ? Since Sunday I've went down to 250 mg test e and will lower as I want to blast again in 5-6 weeks. My testosterone is 167 nmol. Hope that makes sense ?


 PSA might be high due to prostate inflammation from E2 and test. Do you have any trouble urinating or dribbling out?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> What is your preferred timing of insulin around a workout
> 
> Pre or post ?
> 
> I've always used post workout based on the fact that glut4 is already stimulated by training and as such the muscles are already primed to shuttle aminos and glucose into the muscle but I've been more and more intrigued with pre workout usages lately and wondered what your take on it was


 Post, the bonus is that after a workout, the muscles are extra sensitive to insulin's effects. Especially after fasted training.

You mentioned glut, that's one of those processes that gets upregulated after training among others. Post-workout makes more sense from a physiological perspective. Even on non-training days, some insulin makes sense since the muscle is still repairing itself.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> How long does it take roughly for insulin sensitivity to take a hit whilst bulking on very high carbs? And how much of an issue is is insulin sensitivity to an aas user?
> 
> Thank you


 Most AAS users won't have a problem, they have two things protecting their insulin sensitivity levels. 1. Resistance training ( makes muscle more insulin sensitive ) 2. Higher than average levels of muscle mass, which help burn off excess blood glucose.

Two of the other best ways to maintain high insulin sensitivity levels is to stay under 15% body fat and do cardio a few times a week.

Testosterone has been shown to help diabetic control their blood glucose too.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Gaining fat on a bulk is inevitable but how does GH work in a way that prevents fat gain? is it the fact you are building muscle quicker than fat so you're bodyfat stays the same/goes up a little?

Would fasted cardio with 2iu of GH effect this protocol? I ask as I'm intrigued to how this process works, not just that you don't gain fat


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't run insulin without GH.


 Could you please elaborate on this further as to why?



ElChapo said:


> PSA might be high due to prostate inflammation from E2 and test. Do you have any trouble urinating or dribbling out?


 How would you deal with elevated PSA from blasting AAS? this is a concern for me.

Also if one developed prostate cancer or any type of cancer would TRT be discontinued? I think I remember watching a podcast of someone pulled off TRT due to the development of prostate cancer.


----------



## ghost.recon

Pancake' said:


> Could you please elaborate on this further as to why?
> 
> How would you deal with elevated PSA from blasting AAS? this is a concern for me.
> 
> Also if one developed prostate cancer or any type of cancer would TRT be discontinued? I think I remember watching a podcast of someone pulled off TRT due to the development of prostate cancer.


 Don't blast AAS or at least pick your compounds accordingly.

There are different types of prostate cancer, some will be hormone sensitive and be DHT/androgen driven which in that case would benefit from androgen restriction.


----------



## SlinMeister

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Gaining fat on a bulk is inevitable but how does GH work in a way that prevents fat gain? is it the fact you are building muscle quicker than fat so you're bodyfat stays the same/goes up a little?
> 
> Would fasted cardio with 2iu of GH effect this protocol? I ask as I'm intrigued to how this process works, not just that you don't gain fat


 You will get fat anyway you can't beat the first law of thermodynamics.

If you want to do what you expect on the first sentence, go on 15iu HGH pharma grade ed, not bullshit generics and enough insulin to cover your carbs, not to blow up like a glycogen doll, this together with Tren and T3 can lead to what you are hoping but, check yourself at the mirror... are you a 240lbs wanna be Mr.O that will need to push 280lbs offseason or just a gymrat?

People are so f**ked up with HGH MAGIC, it's not a magical drug, it cost a s**t ton of money and will be useful only once you will be very big.

4iu max 6iu ed of HGH pharma grade with 5-10iu Humalog postwo and 500mg Berberine HCL before bed is more than enough for everyone on forums.

What really works are the ANABOLICS, here you have the real deal, they build dense quality muscle with time.

Below the stats you can achieve with just Anabolics, NO HGH.



> These following weights are assuming that you are between 4-6% bodyfat.
> 
> Height Weight(lbs)
> 5'5" 165-180
> 5'6" 172-187
> 5'7" 179-194
> 5'8" 186-201
> 5'9" 193-208
> 5'10" 200-215
> 5'11" 207-222
> 6'0" 214-229
> 6'1" 221-236


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Gaining fat on a bulk is inevitable but how does GH work in a way that prevents fat gain? is it the fact you are building muscle quicker than fat so you're bodyfat stays the same/goes up a little?
> 
> Would fasted cardio with 2iu of GH effect this protocol? I ask as I'm intrigued to how this process works, not just that you don't gain fat


 It enhances nutrient partitioning to favor muscle increase instead of fat. I would think it's probably because it increases this more in muscle than in fat.

Affect the protocol how? Elaborate your question.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Could you please elaborate on this further as to why?
> 
> How would you deal with elevated PSA from blasting AAS? this is a concern for me.
> 
> Also if one developed prostate cancer or any type of cancer would TRT be discontinued? I think I remember watching a podcast of someone pulled off TRT due to the development of prostate cancer.


 GH and insulin cover each other's weakness. GH decreases insulin sensitivity, insulin can increase fat gain in a surplus without GH increases the protein/muscle partitioning of excess calories.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Could you please elaborate on this further as to why?
> 
> How would you deal with elevated PSA from blasting AAS? this is a concern for me.
> 
> Also if one developed prostate cancer or any type of cancer would TRT be discontinued? I think I remember watching a podcast of someone pulled off TRT due to the development of prostate cancer.


 The PSA question is tricky. The jury is still out on wether androgens are good or bad in the prostate cancer sense. Some research shows that HRT does not affect the risk, and some research even shows a possible protective effect.

A lot of researchers are pushing on the medical community to becareful with androgen deprivation therapy, because it leads to a whole host of other problems; heart disease, depression, muscle/bone weakness, depression and overall decrease in quality of life and functional capacity. This kind of question is way beyond my scope of practice. It's down to the MD's discretion.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> You will get fat anyway you can't beat the first law of thermodynamics.
> 
> If you want to do what you expect on the first sentence, go on 15iu HGH pharma grade ed, not bullshit generics and enough insulin to cover your carbs, not to blow up like a glycogen doll, this together with Tren and T3 can lead to what you are hoping but, check yourself at the mirror... are you a 240lbs wanna be Mr.O that will need to push 280lbs offseason or just a gymrat?
> 
> People are so f**ked up with HGH MAGIC, it's not a magical drug, it cost a s**t ton of money and will be useful only once you will be very big.
> 
> 4iu max 6iu ed of HGH pharma grade with 5-10iu Humalog postwo and 500mg Berberine HCL before bed is more than enough for everyone on forums.
> 
> What really works are the ANABOLICS, here you have the real deal, they build dense quality muscle with time.
> 
> Below the stats you can achieve with just Anabolics, NO HGH.


 @S123

Most people don't need GH/Insulin to achieve their goal physique. If you wanna be a mass monster, it's a powerful tool and some people need it to reach that level. For those not looking to get freaky, it's not necessary and trouble/cost to usefulness ratio is very poor.

Most guys will get on fine with test p (300 mg-1 gram) + anabolic (winstrol/sdrol/npp), bulk/cut until desire muscularity achieved, then maintain 8-12% body fat year round. Maintenance is much easier than gaining mass, each muscle group only needs to be hit once a week to maintain gains. A little cardio during the week will ensure you can still eat a lot of calories and enjoy your food while staying lean.


----------



## JakobJuice

@ElChapo driest long estered test? Sustanon?
so like.. test suspension > test a >test p > test pp > sustanon > test E/Cyp. (from the common test mixes/esters/variations)
notable difference for you between Test E/Cyp and Sustanon?


----------



## ElChapo

JakobJuice said:


> @ElChapo driest long estered test? Sustanon?
> so like.. test suspension > test a >test p > test pp > sustanon > test E/Cyp. (from the common test mixes/esters/variations)
> notable difference for you between Test E/Cyp and Sustanon?


 Technically not because sustanon is just a combo if long, medium and short esters. It's drier and does have a long action time than the others.

Sust seems to be dryer for most people than E or C. Never used it myself.

I strongly prefer test P in terms of dryness and potency.


----------



## gavzilla

ElChapo said:


> PSA might be high due to prostate inflammation from E2 and test. Do you have any trouble urinating or dribbling out?


 Hi thanks for taking the time to reply. There is no issues at all with urinating or dribbling out. I e had my bloods taken before after cycles and I've never seen my prostate like this. It's totally way out.

This may sound strange but at the weekend my girlfriend was playing with my ass. Ive just read that this could have something to do with it plus I had long sex sessions from Thursday to Monday and my bloods were taking the Monday morning.

Medichecks

My psa is usually between 07-08

ranges 0-1.4

my psa now 6.43 ranges 0-1.4

I have read that eostrogen can have effects so I'm taking arimidex and lowered my testosterone dosage to 250 mg but I will lower again for 4 weeks to 125 mg.

What do you think ?

Cheers


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I've read that taking Winstrol for 3 days only decreased by half your HDL levels.

What about Anavar ? is it the same?

Would taking 100mg anavar for 3 days would already yield some strength gains ?


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> Hi thanks for taking the time to reply. There is no issues at all with urinating or dribbling out. I e had my bloods taken before after cycles and I've never seen my prostate like this. It's totally way out.
> 
> This may sound strange but at the weekend my girlfriend was playing with my ass. Ive just read that this could have something to do with it plus I had long sex sessions from Thursday to Monday and my bloods were taking the Monday morning.
> 
> Medichecks
> 
> My psa is usually between 07-08
> 
> ranges 0-1.4
> 
> my psa now 6.43 ranges 0-1.4
> 
> I have read that eostrogen can have effects so I'm taking arimidex and lowered my testosterone dosage to 250 mg but I will lower again for 4 weeks to 125 mg.
> 
> What do you think ?
> 
> Cheers


 Give it a few weeks with the lower dose and re-test, about 4 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've read that taking Winstrol for 3 days only decreased by half your HDL levels.
> 
> What about Anavar ? is it the same?
> 
> Would taking 100mg anavar for 3 days would already yield some strength gains ?


 Winstrol hits hard and fast, tren does too.

Anavar is more mild, at 100 mg it will likely do the same to your HDL levels. I would give it at least 1-2 weeks for strength gains to begin.


----------



## gavzilla

ElChapo said:


> Give it a few weeks with the lower dose and re-test, about 4 weeks.


 Ok thanks mate that's exactly what the dr says.


----------



## MrGRoberts

Jab done on 24th April :-

250 Test Cyp

250 Mast E

Bloods taken 1st May in the morning.

I have low sex drive. Very fatigued. No motivation to train. I can masturbate but the orgasm is weak.

whats the problem?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Jab done on 24th April :-
> 
> 250 Test Cyp
> 
> 250 Mast E
> 
> Bloods taken 1st May in the morning.
> 
> I have low sex drive. Very fatigued. No motivation to train. I can masturbate but the orgasm is weak.
> 
> whats the problem?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 171513


 When did the low sex drive/motivation problem start?

Can you think of any lifestyle changes, supplements, medication, drugs, etc that may have changed around that time?

Your levels are fairly low, you will like likely feel better getting your testosterone levels increased. How long after injection was this lab test? Is this a UGL? Levels are very poor for that dosage.

Some people do get decreased libido and dont feel well on masteron, but i would look at your testosterone level and quality of your oil.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> When did the low sex drive/motivation problem start?
> 
> Can you think of any lifestyle changes, supplements, medication, drugs, etc that may have changed around that time?
> 
> Your levels are fairly low, you will like likely feel better getting your testosterone levels increased. How long after injection was this lab test? Is this a UGL? Levels are very poor for that dosage.
> 
> Some people do get decreased libido and dont feel well on masteron, but i would look at your testosterone level and quality of your oil.


 It started about 2 weeks ago. I stopped taking Anavar as I though that was what I was getting fatigued from. But I'm still fatigued and un motivated now.

The test is a UGL yes. I took the test 7 days after the injection. I will take the test again 2 days after the injection with just 250mg test to see what the results are.

Every other time I've taken Masteron my libido has been really high and I've felt good.


----------



## Baka

MrGRoberts said:


> It started about 2 weeks ago. I stopped taking Anavar as I though that was what I was getting fatigued from. But I'm still fatigued and un motivated now.
> 
> The test is a UGL yes. I took the test 7 days after the injection. I will take the test again 2 days after the injection with just 250mg test to see what the results are.
> 
> Every other time I've taken Masteron my libido has been really high and I've felt good.


 keep us in touch. I'm using nexus test C too so I'd like to know if I'm using underdosed gear or na


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> It started about 2 weeks ago. I stopped taking Anavar as I though that was what I was getting fatigued from. But I'm still fatigued and un motivated now.
> 
> The test is a UGL yes. I took the test 7 days after the injection. I will take the test again 2 days after the injection with just 250mg test to see what the results are.
> 
> Every other time I've taken Masteron my libido has been really high and I've felt good.


 How long have you been on this testosterone? Levels are pretty low for the dose, so it may be underdosed.

The other possibility is that you are a fast metabolizer, i am myself. My levels from enanthate will drop a lot after 7 days, more than other people's would.

You could try re-testing at 3 days, but the more likely cause is underdosed testosterone.


----------



## BULK

@El Chapo I've read that tren lowers your natural t3 and that lowering natural t3 will cause a rise in prolactin which is why tren can cause gyno . The article says run t3 at 25mcg ed during the tren cycle to avoid gyno? Is there any proof of this


----------



## ElChapo

BULK said:


> @El Chapo I've read that tren lowers your natural t3 and that lowering natural t3 will cause a rise in prolactin which is why tren can cause gyno . The article says run t3 at 25mcg ed during the tren cycle to avoid gyno? Is there any proof of this


 That's a big stretch. No, not at all.


----------



## BULK

ElChapo said:


> That's a big stretch. No, not at all.


 Cheers. Steroid.com is we're I read it


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> How long have you been on this testosterone? Levels are pretty low for the dose, so it may be underdosed.
> 
> The other possibility is that you are a fast metabolizer, i am myself. My levels from enanthate will drop a lot after 7 days, more than other people's would.
> 
> You could try re-testing at 3 days, but the more likely cause is underdosed testosterone.


 I had four 250mg injections from this testosterone.

will do another test just to see

thanks for your help


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i was planning on supplementing with a lower dose of cialis every 2nd day, for health benefits but also mainly for the possible assistance in wound healing (ankle and lower back muscles), through the mechanisms of increased blood flow and promotion of nitric oxide.

I read that nitric oxide was a signal for tendon repair and was also crucial in all phases of wound healing, so I figured why not.

Altho reading into possible sides of cialis, it would appear 1/10 actually experience back pain as a side effect from cialis.

Should I have this as a consideration, and perhaps avoid cialis for now?

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I had four 250mg injections from this testosterone.
> 
> will do another test just to see
> 
> thanks for your help


 I'm going to say it's probably the bunk test.

What were you on prior to the 4 injections of this testosterone? And how was your libido and mood at that time?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i was planning on supplementing with a lower dose of cialis every 2nd day, for health benefits but also mainly for the possible assistance in wound healing (ankle and lower back muscles), through the mechanisms of increased blood flow and promotion of nitric oxide.
> 
> I read that nitric oxide was a signal for tendon repair and was also crucial in all phases of wound healing, so I figured why not.
> 
> Altho reading into possible sides of cialis, it would appear 1/10 actually experience back pain as a side effect from cialis.
> 
> Should I have this as a consideration, and perhaps avoid cialis for now?
> 
> Thanks!


 No, that's an exceedingly rare side effect.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> I'm going to say it's probably the bunk test.
> 
> What were you on prior to the 4 injections of this testosterone? And how was your libido and mood at that time?


 Was natural for a couple months due to personal issues.

Test was 3.02nmol


----------



## zariph

What would you suggest to be the lowest dose of these to not be too low to not see anything.

NPP

Dbol

Oxy

Winny

Tren

Not ran together, but just added to a test cycle


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Was natural for a couple months due to personal issues.
> 
> Test was 3.02nmol


 Get yourself on a better source asap.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> What would you suggest to be the lowest dose of these to not be too low to not see anything.
> 
> NPP
> 
> Dbol
> 
> Oxy
> 
> Winny
> 
> Tren
> 
> Not ran together, but just added to a test cycle


 NPP 200 mg

Orals 20 mg

Tren 200 mg


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

There's any difference between injecting:

-2100mg EQ all at once on MONDAY?

-300mg EQ ed?







Blood release seems similar....


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> NPP 200 mg
> 
> Orals 20 mg
> 
> Tren 200 mg


 Thank you, could a mix of 10mg win + 10mg dbol work aswell?


----------



## Andro25

I had reading about Green Tea possibly be able to affect the testosterone:epitestosterone (T:E ratio). From my understanding it inhibit an enzyme called UGT2B17 responsible for attaching glucuronic acid to testosterone and this will help a testosterone using athlete produce a normal ratio. 
Other substances with the same pathway are diclofenac and ibuprofen.

Can Green Tea (and eventually other substances with the same intention) allow to pass a test using from 150 mg to 300 mg of testosterone?

https://www.academia.edu/17025295/Dietary_green_and_white_teas_suppress_UDP-glucuronosyltransferase_UGT2B17_mediated_testosterone_glucuronidation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19643121


----------



## Frandeman

ElChapo said:


> Get yourself on a better source asap.


 I bet the one selling that s**t is pinning something else

fu**ing Nexus


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> There's any difference between injecting:
> 
> -2100mg EQ all at once on MONDAY?
> 
> -300mg EQ ed?
> 
> 
> View attachment 171533
> Blood release seems similar....


 It looks similar because EQ has a very long half-life. You can definitely do once a week with no issue as you can see on that chart.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, could a mix of 10mg win + 10mg dbol work aswell?


 Sure, it depends on your goals. This is more for a sports performance/recovery dose and less for mass building.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> I had reading about Green Tea possibly be able to affect the testosterone:epitestosterone (T:E ratio). From my understanding it inhibit an enzyme called UGT2B17 responsible for attaching glucuronic acid to testosterone and this will help a testosterone using athlete produce a normal ratio.
> Other substances with the same pathway are diclofenac and ibuprofen.
> 
> Can Green Tea (and eventually other substances with the same intention) allow to pass a test using from 150 mg to 300 mg of testosterone?
> 
> https://www.academia.edu/17025295/Dietary_green_and_white_teas_suppress_UDP-glucuronosyltransferase_UGT2B17_mediated_testosterone_glucuronidation
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19643121


 I've seen this before, it's plausible. I wouldn't know how much you would need though, it would also vary depending on how much and what kind of testosterone is being used.


----------



## Andro25

ElChapo said:


> I've seen this before, it's plausible. I wouldn't know how much you would need though, it would also vary depending on how much and what kind of testosterone is being used.


 What type of differences on this effect do you expect from the different kind of testosterone?


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> What type of differences on this effect do you expect from the different kind of testosterone?


 Absorption, half-life, higher/lower peak ; differences in pharmacokinetics will likely affect how much green tea extract would be required.


----------



## Simon90

Just a thought I had. Would 6 weeks of 100mg winstrol straight into 6 weeks of anadrol 100mg? Is this too long at that dose? Or would you reccomend a rest? I have seen multiple posts where you reccomend orals for 12 weeks but only see you say it with one compound for example winny.

Cheers


----------



## stewedw

Simon90 said:


> Just a thought I had. Would 6 weeks of 100mg winstrol straight into 6 weeks of anadrol 100mg? Is this too long at that dose? Or would you reccomend a rest? I have seen multiple posts where you reccomend orals for 12 weeks but only see you say it with one compound for example winny.
> 
> Cheers


 Run some liver support and just do 12 weeks winny mate, much beerer overall med, but in answer to your question, yeah you can do as you said. Could even combine 50mg of each and run for twelve weeks. Most ugl do stanavar which is a mix of them both, as they tend to compliment one another with a moderate dose of test.

All the best.


----------



## Baka

stewedw said:


> Run some liver support and just do 12 weeks winny mate, much beerer overall med, but in answer to your question, yeah you can do as you said. Could even combine 50mg of each and run for twelve weeks. Most ugl do stanavar which is a mix of them both, as they tend to compliment one another with a moderate dose of test.
> 
> All the best.


 stanavar is anavar + winstrol . not winstrol + anadrol

I wouldn't recommend you stacking anadrol and winstrol , you'll surely feel like total s**t


----------



## BULK

I'm using 30 pharma Winnie and 50 var triumph and they compliment each other nicely


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Just a thought I had. Would 6 weeks of 100mg winstrol straight into 6 weeks of anadrol 100mg? Is this too long at that dose? Or would you reccomend a rest? I have seen multiple posts where you reccomend orals for 12 weeks but only see you say it with one compound for example winny.
> 
> Cheers


 If you are worried about liver toxicity, take tudca and NAC during the 12 weeks. 250 mg / 1,000 mg of each.

Do not drink any alcohol and avoid liver toxic medication like acetaminophen.


----------



## stewedw

Baka said:


> stanavar is anavar + winstrol . not winstrol + anadrol
> 
> I wouldn't recommend you stacking anadrol and winstrol , you'll surely feel like total s**t


 Apologies I never saw he was talking about oxys and winny instead of anavar.


----------



## JakobJuice

@El Chapo or @ghost.recon (maybe one of you had a client or a friend or whatever experience with it...)

Would you recommend Ostarine or anavar for women?
Reading a lot of mixed reviews...My Girl actually asked me.

Just looking for her most side free first experience.

pinning is sadly not an option..for now...


----------



## RedStar

Baka said:


> stanavar is anavar + winstrol . not winstrol + anadrol
> 
> I wouldn't recommend you stacking anadrol and winstrol , you'll surely feel like total s**t


 How would you know you'd feel like s**t?

Have you done it?

Because I can assure you it's a fairly common oral stack in strength training. Anadrol for aggression and strength, winstrol for strength and allowing less water than say stacking more anadrol or anadrol with dbol.

I'm not one to poke at someone but honestly some of your posts are so ill informed.


----------



## zariph

Which ratio do you generally suggest for

Testeca

Test:Tren

I have som Dbol at hand, but never used dbol before - would this be a bad Idea to add to either of those if prone to gyno, as I heard that you shouldnt use tamox or ralox while using deca or tren?


----------



## Baka

RedStar said:


> How would you know you'd feel like s**t?
> 
> Have you done it?
> 
> Because I can assure you it's a fairly common oral stack in strength training. Anadrol for aggression and strength, winstrol for strength and allowing less water than say stacking more anadrol or anadrol with dbol.
> 
> I'm not one to poke at someone but honestly some of your posts are so ill informed.


 some of my posts are so ill informed ?

On anadrol without winstrol I felt like s**t already , like I felt like s**t on some harsh orals.

Anadrol + winstrol ? really toxic combo and when toxicity is high yes you feel like s**t . no appetite , lethargy etc etc.

" can assure you it's a fairly common oral stack in strength training. Anadrol for aggression and strength, winstrol for strength and allowing less water than say stacking more anadrol or anadrol with dbol. " idgaf mate , some people use grams of test / tren , 150+g of anadrol , 200g of anavar ? does it mean they feel good on it ? You are so ill informed.

Wasting my time rly


----------



## RedStar

Baka said:


> some of my posts are so ill informed ?
> 
> On anadrol without winstrol I felt like s**t already , like I felt like s**t on some harsh orals.
> 
> Anadrol + winstrol ? really toxic combo and when toxicity is high yes you feel like s**t . no appetite , lethargy etc etc.
> 
> " can assure you it's a fairly common oral stack in strength training. Anadrol for aggression and strength, winstrol for strength and allowing less water than say stacking more anadrol or anadrol with dbol. " idgaf mate , some people use grams of test / tren , 150+g of anadrol , 200g of anavar ? does it mean they feel good on it ? You are so ill informed.
> 
> Wasting my time rly


 You might feel like total sh**t.

Others wouldn't. That's why I'm saying what you're saying is badly informed. Others could run it just fine and do. Perhaps you should have said 'i would feel like death' or whatever not everyone or you".

You haven't even tried it so I rest my case, and you say anadrol makes you feel bad but you want to use halo (to the extent you asked me to send you some of mine as you didn't wanna buy any incase you didn't like them).

Let's just ignore one another. :thumbup1:


----------



## Baka

RedStar said:


> You might feel like total sh**t.
> 
> Others wouldn't. That's why I'm saying what you're saying is badly informed. Others could run it just fine and do. Perhaps you should have said 'i would feel like death' or whatever not everyone or you".
> 
> You haven't even tried it so I rest my case, and you say anadrol makes you feel bad but you want to use halo (to the extent you asked me to send you some of mine as you didn't wanna buy any incase you didn't like them).
> 
> Let's just ignore one another. :thumbup1:


 You can say this for everything , you might , others wouldn't.. if I had tried winstrol + anadrol you would have said the same thing right.

So I can tell people to use 1g of tren + 200mg anadrol because I don't personally feel bad on it right , not good advice.

the guy asked if taking Anadrol + winstrol was a good idea , to me it's not a good idea , at all. Yes he has good chance to feel like s**t as I said.

I've used halo since , feeling good on it at low dose but wouldn't even think of stacking it with winstrol or any other oral.


----------



## ElChapo

JakobJuice said:


> @El Chapo or @ghost.recon (maybe one of you had a client or a friend or whatever experience with it...)
> 
> Would you recommend Ostarine or anavar for women?
> Reading a lot of mixed reviews...My Girl actually asked me.
> 
> Just looking for her most side free first experience.
> 
> pinning is sadly not an option..for now...


 I know quite a bit about female cycles.

I would have a girl train at least 6 months to a year minimum before they take anything. So they learn how to train, eat, and rest and have a solid base to build off of. They will respond best if they start off strong and with some natural muscle.

Anavar is best to start with, buy a labmax kit to confirm it's anavar. A lot of times, it's winstrol labeled as anavar. Winstrol is good for females but better for intermediate-advanced women as it has a higher potential for virilization than anavar. Winstrol can affect the voice for many women.

A good dose is 10-20 mg daily depending on the female's experience level, how much mass they are trying to put on, and their size/weight.

For injectables; test/npp and even tren can be utilized. Generally 50 mg-100 mg for bikini-fitness muscularity level and +150 mg weekly for women's physique division.

I recommend injectables for women who are intermediate-advanced and want more muscle (fitness/physique division).

Short esters have less potential to virilize and less side effects and water retention.

FBB division will take as much as males do, that's why they are so virilized.

Virilization will come down to three things: 1. Dosage 2. time on 3. genetic sensitivity to virilization

Some women can take a lot of stuff for many years and still look feminine and their voice won't change or only a little bit. Others are super sensitive.

Libido increase and clit growth will happen most of the time, clit growth can be temporary or permanent. 90% of women enjoy this side effect as sexual pleasure gets a huge increase and orgasms are much stronger on cycle.

The longer she stays on, the more permanent the clit growth will be. Voice change is the same, can be temporary or permanent, longer time on increases risk of permanent voice change. risk is much lower on small doses, milder compounds, and shorter cycles.

What is her training experience like and what is her goal physique?

You can get a lot of muscle on anavar only with minimal virilization, injectable cycles are more fun and intense due to libido increase but there ishigher risk of virilization. Injectables will be more potent in terms of strength increase as well.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Which ratio do you generally suggest for
> 
> Testeca
> 
> Test:Tren
> 
> I have som Dbol at hand, but never used dbol before - would this be a bad Idea to add to either of those if prone to gyno, as I heard that you shouldnt use tamox or ralox while using deca or tren?


 Equal ratio or more test. More test means more side effects but better strength and mass.

If you are prone to gyno, i would stay away from dbol. You can try it if you want, just keep nolva or ralox on hand and you will be able to reverse the gyno without an issue.


----------



## pma111

1.Would you say curcumin is a stronger anti inflammatory than omega 3?

2.Whats your view on the thinking the body can only absorb/digest a set amount of protein per meal (40g?) and therefore spreading protein intake over a few meals rather than larger intake during a meal e.g. 2/3 chicken breasts per meal, is a better idea, or is that crap.

3.Is it complete luck of the draw if the body uses fat or muscle for energy during a prolonged cut, or are there any tricks to push the odds in your favour, e.g spare muscle and use fat for the missing energy. Or does it do whatever it wants regardless.

4. What does a standard calendar year look like in your fitness /building program, in terms of what periods are spent bulking/ cutting.

5. With supps like curcumin and pine bark, do you need occassional breaks from them so the body doesnt build up a tolerance and subsequent decrease im benefits.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> 1.Would you say curcumin is a stronger anti inflammatory than omega 3?
> 
> 2.Whats your view on the thinking the body can only absorb/digest a set amount of protein per meal (40g?) and therefore spreading protein intake over a few meals rather than larger intake during a meal e.g. 2/3 chicken breasts per meal, is a better idea, or is that crap.
> 
> 3.Is it complete luck of the draw if the body uses fat or muscle for energy during a prolonged cut, or are there any tricks to push the odds in your favour, e.g spare muscle and use fat for the missing energy. Or does it do whatever it wants regardless.
> 
> 4. What does a standard calendar year look like in your fitness /building program, in terms of what periods are spent bulking/ cutting.
> 
> 5. With supps like curcumin and pine bark, do you need occassional breaks from them so the body doesnt build up a tolerance and subsequent decrease im benefits.


 1. Yes

2. Bullshit

3. No luck, if you use muscle, your body tries to use other sources for energy. This is why you lift during a cut. You also want to aim for around 1 g protein per lbs of lean body mass.

4. I just maintain now, i hit each body part once a week. I do cardio several times a week. I maintain 7-10% body fat year round. I've already achieved my ideal physique.

5. No breaks needed


----------



## pma111

You mentioned a while back cardio is the best medicine available but I read that perhaps to mean its a serious tool to prevent getting common issues, rather than specifically assisting any pre-existing issue an individual is already battling against. So with that in mind.. does cardio help with any particular pre-existing conditions/health challenges that have already manifested out of interest, or is its main benefits as a preventative tool (avoid issues in the first place before they become a problem) or can it help from both angles. Or is it a case of if you are already plagued with any major health issue.. cardio can probably help matters (along with more targetted drugs/'natural'supplements).


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> You mentioned a while back cardio is the best medicine available but I read that perhaps to prevent getting common issues rather than assist any pre-existing issue an individual is already battling against. So.. does cardio help with any particular pre-existing conditions/health challenges that have already manifested out of interest, or is its main benefits as a preventative tool (avoid issues in the first place before they become a problem) or can it help from both angles. Or is it a case of if you are ill with any major issue... cardio will help matters.


 Prevention is the best medicine of course, but once you have heart disease/diabetes/obesity/etc, cardio will still help immensely.


----------



## Sasnak

pma111 said:


> Does it help with any particular pre-existing conditions


 You need to tell him what they are. The answer will be yes unless you are a cardiac patient, in which case it will still be yes but under medical supervision.

Come on guys, you don't need to ask a doctor how important cardiovascular exercise is to anyone.


----------



## pma111

Sasnak said:


> You need to tell him what they are. The answer will be yes unless you are a cardiac patient, in which case it will still be yes but under medical supervision.
> 
> Come on guys, you don't need to ask a doctor how important cardiovascular exercise is to anyone.


 I appreciate that, I was just interested in situations where cardio is perhaps an overlooked /underestimated tool to help with any particular common health challenges someone already has going on (not anything in particular),e.g jumping straight onto a prescription of pharmaceutical drugs when cardio may actually work better.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> You need to tell him what they are. The answer will be yes unless you are a cardiac patient, in which case it will still be yes but under medical supervision.
> 
> Come on guys, you don't need to ask a doctor how important cardiovascular exercise is to anyone.





pma111 said:


> I appreciate that, I was just interested in situations where cardio is perhaps an overlooked /underestimated tool to help with any particular common health challenges someone already has going on (not anything in particular),e.g jumping straight onto a prescription of pharmaceutical drugs when cardio may actually work better.


 Off the top of my head, i can't even think of a condition that doesn't benefit in someway from exercise. Even psychological issues like anxiety and depression can be improved by exercise.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo what is your opinion on DHEA for raising testosterone and IGF 1? Examine.com states that it also raises estrogen which kinda set me off

Edit: I know I said it before but I think I can speak for everyone when I say that the contribution from you and ghost is immensly appreciated. There is so much knowledge in this thread


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

Would taking aas whilst doing a high cardiovascular sport such as boxing effect the heart more negatively than just lifting alone.

What's your views on meldonium to enhance endurance and recovery time. Would 500mg pre workout be to much as a starting dose


----------



## Will2309

@El Chapo

Priorities have changed this year so looking to come off at the end of the summer but in the mean time with it be worth running low dose Masteron along with cruise dose of test.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo what is your opinion on DHEA for raising testosterone and IGF 1? Examine.com states that it also raises estrogen which kinda set me off
> 
> Edit: I know I said it before but I think I can speak for everyone when I say that the contribution from you and ghost is immensly appreciated. There is so much knowledge in this thread


 In men it will usually boost E2, in women it can boost test and E2. The level of increase you would get would not significant enough for performance gains.

Happy to share the knowledge. The best way to learn is to teach.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Priorities have changed this year so looking to come off at the end of the summer but in the mean time with it be worth running low dose Masteron along with cruise dose of test.
> 
> Thanks


 What are you looking for in the masteron? Some people like it for cruising, it can polish the physique a bit. It's very mild though.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would taking aas whilst doing a high cardiovascular sport such as boxing effect the heart more negatively than just lifting alone.
> 
> What's your views on meldonium to enhance endurance and recovery time. Would 500mg pre workout be to much as a starting dose


 You're more likely to get a protective effect from the cardio than a negative one. In studies i've seen (in rodents though), anabolic steroids removed many of the benefits of cardiovascular exercise.

Not into the meldonium, seems more for useful for sports training. The basics the job the fine.


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> You're more likely to get a protective effect from the cardio than a negative one. In studies i've seen (in rodents though), anabolic steroids removed many of the benefits of cardiovascular exercise.
> 
> Not into the meldonium, seems more for useful for sports training. The basics the job the fine.


 What about enlargement of the heart. Would steroids combined with all the cardiovascular training from boxing cause the heart to enlarge more


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> What are you looking for in the masteron? Some people like it for cruising, it can polish the physique a bit. It's very mild though.


 Iam cutting at the moment so that polish look, Lower shbg, feel good factor. Also just to use it up as I got 4 vials to use at a high dose but plans have changed.


----------



## SoberHans

Want to try NPP on my next cycle instead of Deca.

Ill be bulking on 600mg test e a week and NPP. Is 300mg a week a decent dose or should I go 450mg?

Also I know you said you can inject twice a week as it's not about stable blood levels but gene expression but if you're sensitive to acne and don't like accutane, would I be much better off injecting three times a week?

Really appreciate the help @El Chapo


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> You're more likely to get a protective effect from the cardio than a negative one. In studies i've seen (in rodents though), *anabolic steroids removed many of the benefits of cardiovascular exercise.*
> 
> Not into the meldonium, seems more for useful for sports training. The basics the job the fine.


 I take it this would be dependent on amount of AAS used eg Blast/cycle v TRT?


----------



## zariph

Yesterday after I injected shoulder and took the needle out, a lot of blood appeared. Right after pin I could see a little knot at the injection spot, The knot is gone now, but the spot is now a red circle - some PIP but not bad. Do you think it could be an infection or does this happens time to time? Its not sore when I touch the spot etc, thxx


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> What about enlargement of the heart. Would steroids combined with all the cardiovascular training from boxing cause the heart to enlarge more


 Cardio without AAS can enlarge the heart. Look up Athlete's heart. Steroids may make it worse, generally, it's benign, sometimes it can lead to arrythmias.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Iam cutting at the moment so that polish look, Lower shbg, feel good factor. Also just to use it up as I got 4 vials to use at a high dose but plans have changed.


 Yeah, go for it.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Want to try NPP on my next cycle instead of Deca.
> 
> Ill be bulking on 600mg test e a week and NPP. Is 300mg a week a decent dose or should I go 450mg?
> 
> Also I know you said you can inject twice a week as it's not about stable blood levels but gene expression but if you're sensitive to acne and don't like accutane, would I be much better off injecting three times a week?
> 
> Really appreciate the help @El Chapo


 I would just round it out to 400 mg.

Injection frequency will not have a big effect on acne.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> I take it this would be dependent on amount of AAS used eg Blast/cycle v TRT?


 Yeah, supraphysiological levels.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Yesterday after I injected shoulder and took the needle out, a lot of blood appeared. Right after pin I could see a little knot at the injection spot, The knot is gone now, but the spot is now a red circle - some PIP but not bad. Do you think it could be an infection or does this happens time to time? Its not sore when I touch the spot etc, thxx


 This is normal and very common. It's a leak into the subq tissue. Lots of nerves there and that layer is more sensitive to PIP. It will go away in 1-3 days.

If it hurts or bothers you, take an NSAID, they are the most effective class of pain killer for PIP.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> This is normal and very common. It's a leak into the subq tissue. Lots of nerves there and that layer is more sensitive to PIP. It will go away in 1-3 days.
> 
> If it hurts or bothers you, take an NSAID, they are the most effective class of pain killer for PIP.


 thank you! Not really that painfull, just more worried about the redness if it could be an infection


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I would just round it out to 400 mg.
> 
> Injection frequency will not have a big effect on acne.


 Brilliant, really appreciate the time you take to answer these questions.

Forum would be much worse off without you.


----------



## Simon90

Hya mate. How harsh would you say deca is on vitals? More so lipids

Also I always here people say run it 16-20 weeks, is there any point in running it for 12 weeks? Is that long enough for decent mass gains or would you be short changing yourself running it this length of time

Thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hya mate. How harsh would you say deca is on vitals? More so lipids
> 
> Also I always here people say run it 16-20 weeks, is there any point in running it for 12 weeks? Is that long enough for decent mass gains or would you be short changing yourself running it this length of time
> 
> Thanks again


 12-16 week blasts are good

Deca is alright, you shouldn't worry about the lipids too much on cycle, as long as they aren't bad year round. It's years of poor lipid ratio, high bp, etc that causes damage. A few months won't be too dangerous. If it was, Stallone and Arnold would not be around to this day. These guys have been blasting for decades.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo

I have suffered from tenniselbow, ankle tendonosis and lower back strain.

The tenniselbow and ankle is healing up really well and does not worry me. My lower/mid back however is very stubborn. I am unable to sit or stand for more than 3-4 hours before it feels stiff and irritated..

I am running out of time (work obligations) and am considering trying a PRP injection (platelet rich plasma) in conjunction with HGH peptides and physical therapy.

Whats your opinion on PRP? Should i give this approach a shot?


----------



## TALBOTL

This is a non steroid based question (Boring I know)

I am wanting to learn some basics on genetics and the impact on sport and the gym as a whole, I appreciate it's not one set subject far from it in fact!

Will be getting my 23andme profile done in the next few weeks and was wondering if there is a dummies guide book or some good literature you could recommend to get me started, just to give me a basic idea of what is what. I appreciate becoming an expert and even having a good idea takes years, but I'm willing to learn as it's something that really interests me.

Thanks

LT


----------



## Andro25

What do you think about Synephrine?

Should it stacked with Green Tea have a similar effect of Yohimbine? If not how do you compare them?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Do you know from where lethargy is coming from when someone s using an oral steroid ?

I used to think it was liver toxicity/fatigue , and high hematocrit levels. but if those levels are in range on a blood test during while taking an oral and still suffering from lethargy 2-3 weeks in , what could it be ?

I m asking this because I took Tbol recently , felt good the first weeks then extrem lethargy . if I pop even 12.5mg now I'll get lethargy and some kind of "heavy eyelid symptom" , but if I take 20mg halo no lethargy . so I don't think it's from liver toxicity , and I'm taking nac and tudca too.

This kind of things are interesting , I remember epistane made me so lethargic 30 min after taking the pills , I could sleep all day. Same on superdrol + headaches from hypertension


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate would you be concerned over these liver and kidmey values?


----------



## SlinMeister

Will2309 said:


> Iam cutting at the moment so that polish look, Lower shbg, feel good factor. Also just to use it up as I got 4 vials to use at a high dose but plans have changed.


 The polish look and low water comes 90% from your low level of bodyfat, not from which steroids you will use to cut.

When you cut after a while you will look like s**t, flat, irritable, low energy. (this depends, Tren gives lots of energy to me).

if not, you are not dieting enough to get shredded.

Winny and Tren will just make you look "better".

Imho nothing beats the old Test Tren Mast to cut, with the addiction of Winny the last 4 weeks or IN the entire time together with TUDCA or inj Gluthathione.


----------



## Pancake'

I've upped my squat & deadlift frequency and I'm concerned how much cardio the following next day will hinder recovery? e.g running with leg doms and after axial loading of the spine.

I was really interested in getting my 23andme, I've heard many say it's a bad idea for multiple reasons, one being life insurance related?

When do you think genetic engineering/gene editing will become a thing and available?

Psychologically what occurs with very high test levels? would Dallas levels promote clumsiness for instance.

Is it possible that androgens can possibly onset and trigger psychopathy in suspectible individuals? (steroid induced psychosis) if you will. could some folk permanently mess their sh*t up running 19 nors and develop permanent empathy/personality disorders that cannot be shaked?


----------



## stewedw

Pancake' said:


> I've upped my squat & deadlift frequency and I'm concerned how much cardio the following next day will hinder recovery? e.g running with leg doms and after axial loading of the spine.
> 
> I was really interested in getting my 23andme, I've heard many say it's a bad idea for multiple reasons, one being life insurance related?
> 
> When do you think genetic engineering/gene editing will become a thing and available?
> 
> Psychologically what occurs with very high test levels? would Dallas levels promote clumsiness for instance.
> 
> Is it possible that androgens can possibly onset and trigger psychopathy in suspectible individuals? (steroid induced psychosis) if you will. could some folk permanently mess their sh*t up running 19 nors and develop permanent empathy/personality disorders that cannot be shaked?


 Are you asking if steroids have have an irreversible or aloe permenant negative affect on our brains, decision making or pysche?

Following


----------



## SoberHans

Not sure if you or any of your clients have had any ulnar nerve pain at all?

Been getting slight pain in my pinkie finger, forearm and it stings when I touch where the funny bone is.

Just wondered if you know anyone who's had similar and how much rest they needed to fix it?

Cheers


----------



## pma111

What kind of issues/factors can lead to thicker blood,and are there any natural remedies/tips to keep the blood thinner. Am I correct in thinking niacin has blood thinning benefits.


----------



## spardaa

Hey mate, got a couple questions in a row if that's okay!

1 ) I work in an office and so my back/hips get really tight. I spend my lunch break (approx. 45-60mins) going for a stroll whilst listening to books. Partly cus I enjoy it and partly just to get some movement in as I feel so stiff sitting for so long. The intensity isn't high but I do get a little warm and sometimes sweat if it's hot, but heart rate doesn't increase. I was going to add higher intensity cardio as you suggested (150bpm for 20-30mins) but just wanted to ask if what I am doing now will already give me the cardiac benefits we're looking for?

2) Mrs wants to start a cycle. Is it worth starting on winstrol (don't have access to anavar) or just jump straight to test? Winny tabs are 50mg so would halving them, 25mg, be sufficient? Or if it's test P, u reckon 50mg is okay? Is the duration of the ccle the same as for men, 12-16 weeks? Should I incrase dosages over time? Basically what would be a good way to start these things for a women and then how to progresss them.

3) she is on the pill. Would this affect anything? worth coming off etc?

Cheers!


----------



## Pancake'

stewedw said:


> Are you asking if steroids have have an irreversible or aloe permenant negative affect on our brains, decision making or pysche?
> 
> Following


 Yes.

I feel these affects often go unaddressed as long as x compound yields gainz. Tren is linked with Alzheimer's for instance.


----------



## Malin

Does it make sense to add a replacement dose of T3, say 25mg e/d to a DNP cycle?


----------



## 19072

@El Chapo currently week 2 into test125 mast200 tren300 and my nipples are a little tender. Think I recall when running tren before (hrs ago) I got nipple issues but it's been a long time since I've run anything more than test/var lol..

What meds do I need to combat this issue?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I have suffered from tenniselbow, ankle tendonosis and lower back strain.
> 
> The tenniselbow and ankle is healing up really well and does not worry me. My lower/mid back however is very stubborn. I am unable to sit or stand for more than 3-4 hours before it feels stiff and irritated..
> 
> I am running out of time (work obligations) and am considering trying a PRP injection (platelet rich plasma) in conjunction with HGH peptides and physical therapy.
> 
> Whats your opinion on PRP? Should i give this approach a shot?


 Have you tried strengthening your abs? I used to have chronic low back pain. Since strengthening my abs significantly , my back pain is gone. Nothing is better than cable crunches in my opinion. This is the best video i've seen on how to do them:


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> This is a non steroid based question (Boring I know)
> 
> I am wanting to learn some basics on genetics and the impact on sport and the gym as a whole, I appreciate it's not one set subject far from it in fact!
> 
> Will be getting my 23andme profile done in the next few weeks and was wondering if there is a dummies guide book or some good literature you could recommend to get me started, just to give me a basic idea of what is what. I appreciate becoming an expert and even having a good idea takes years, but I'm willing to learn as it's something that really interests me.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> LT


 Check out https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/SNPedia to get started.

Once you get your 23andme completed, download your RAW DNA date file and upload it to https://promethease.com. It's $5 and will tell you all about your different SNPs including slow/fast twitch muscle fiber, alzheimer's risk, etc.

https://selfhacked.com/blog/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/

https://selfhacked.com/blog/about-mao-a-and-what-to-do-if-you-have-the-warrior-gene/

http://anabolicgenes.com/blog/en/actn3-gene-the-strength-and-power-gene/

These are a few of the more interesting SNPs in my opinion. The warrior gene or COMT enzyme SNP is really interesting as it affects personality, pain/stress tolerance, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> What do you think about Synephrine?
> 
> Should it stacked with Green Tea have a similar effect of Yohimbine? If not how do you compare them?


 Not really impressed by the anecdotes. Never used it myself.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do you know from where lethargy is coming from when someone s using an oral steroid ?
> 
> I used to think it was liver toxicity/fatigue , and high hematocrit levels. but if those levels are in range on a blood test during while taking an oral and still suffering from lethargy 2-3 weeks in , what could it be ?
> 
> I m asking this because I took Tbol recently , felt good the first weeks then extrem lethargy . if I pop even 12.5mg now I'll get lethargy and some kind of "heavy eyelid symptom" , but if I take 20mg halo no lethargy . so I don't think it's from liver toxicity , and I'm taking nac and tudca too.
> 
> This kind of things are interesting , I remember epistane made me so lethargic 30 min after taking the pills , I could sleep all day. Same on superdrol + headaches from hypertension


 Possibly a anti-corticoid effect. Some androgens block the effects of hormones like cortisol. Low cortisol leads to fatigue. High doses of injectables can cause this too. Just a theory though.

I get lethargic on superdrol as well. It's possible it's some liver toxic mechanism but i wouldn't know how directly.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate would you be concerned over these liver and kidmey values?
> 
> View attachment 171637


 Not at all. Liver enzymes are fine, those levels can even be caused by training or medication. Nothing to worry about unless close to 100s or over. I have seen liver enzymes as high as 2,000 in patients.

Creatinine tends to be higher in people who have more muscle than average, the other common cause is low thyroid function.


----------



## Droida

is dim worth using for estrogen control on trt or is it just a gimmick..

ive read micro dosing is a great way of controling e2 but is it worth doing with test e or is it just suitable for test p

thanks


----------



## aaron118

Very informative thread, thank you. What are your thoughts on using T3 during a lean bulk in order to minimise fat gain?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> I've upped my squat & deadlift frequency and I'm concerned how much cardio the following next day will hinder recovery? e.g running with leg doms and after axial loading of the spine.
> 
> I was really interested in getting my 23andme, I've heard many say it's a bad idea for multiple reasons, one being life insurance related?
> 
> When do you think genetic engineering/gene editing will become a thing and available?
> 
> Psychologically what occurs with very high test levels? would Dallas levels promote clumsiness for instance.
> 
> Is it possible that androgens can possibly onset and trigger psychopathy in suspectible individuals? (steroid induced psychosis) if you will. could some folk permanently mess their sh*t up running 19 nors and develop permanent empathy/personality disorders that cannot be shaked?


 Keep the cardio light and short and it will enhance recovery and performance. 4-5 mph / 20 mins will do the trick.

Some people are concerned about DNA privacy and things like that. I don't give a s**t, must be my "warrior" gene.

DNA editing, probably the next decade. It's already begun now.

Some studies show decreased verbal fluency, not a significant amount but i have found that at higher levels than HRT i do feel less verbal fluency, otherwise most people will feel the same on high test levels.

Yeah, there have been links to manic episode with high doses of testosterone ( 600 mg ) in studies. Permanent effects? Definitely not. Some people can have increased agitation and anger if susceptible and that's from the high E2 levels/DHT and/or 19-nor effects. "Roid rage" is possible in susceptible individuals and those who lack self-control but most people don't have this problem.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Not sure if you or any of your clients have had any ulnar nerve pain at all?
> 
> Been getting slight pain in my pinkie finger, forearm and it stings when I touch where the funny bone is.
> 
> Just wondered if you know anyone who's had similar and how much rest they needed to fix it?
> 
> Cheers


 Be more specific, do you know when this started? Possible cause? etc.

Could be inflammation of the elbow joint/nerve radiating down.

Do you curl a lot, or heavy weight, or with a straight barbell?


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Be more specific, do you know when this started? Possible cause? etc.
> 
> Could be inflammation of the elbow joint/nerve radiating down.
> 
> Do you curl a lot, or heavy weight, or with a straight barbell?


 Started last week. I did direct forearm work for the first time in ages, maybe I overdid it?

I was also doing rope tricep pulldowns and locking out at the bottom.

It's not that painful just feels awkward and slight pain down the back of my tricep down to my fingers.

Have had problems with shoulder impingement before so that could be another cause.

Thanks for the reply


----------



## gavzilla

@ElChapo

hello mate I hope you can advise me again

So a couple of weeks back I was on 500 mg test and using 0.25 arimidex and my eostrogen come back at 490 pmol ranges ( 49 pmol- 159 pmol. I've finished my blast and I'm now on 250 mg test e and I used 0.5 arimidex this mon, wed, fri to lower my eostrogen and my sex drive has changed for the worse. During my blast I was able to have good sex bit not amazing but now I'm not bothered and I'm Losing my erections during sex. Morning erections are good and my moods are much better. I'm less agitated and not ruminating about my problems.

Is it possible that I've nuked my eostrogen with in a week ?

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What kind of issues/factors can lead to thicker blood,and are there any natural remedies/tips to keep the blood thinner. Am I correct in thinking niacin has blood thinning benefits.


 Testosterone and other AAS increase hemoglobin and hematocrit. This leads to increased blood viscosity which leads to decreased circulation, increased risk atherosclerosis, high BP and other cardiovascular issues.

If you want your blood to be "thinner" the only way to do that is to donate blood and keep your hemoglobin and hematocrit under 17/50% respectively.

"blood thinner" is a misnomer, aspirin and other medications don't actually thin the blood. They just decrease the platelets clotting effects. You CAN thin the blood, but only by lowering the hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Too much hemoglobin makes the blood thick and increases viscosity. This has been linked to health issues and symptoms like shortness of breath, headaches, red face, high BP, fatigue and feeling of malaise.


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> Hey mate, got a couple questions in a row if that's okay!
> 
> 1 ) I work in an office and so my back/hips get really tight. I spend my lunch break (approx. 45-60mins) going for a stroll whilst listening to books. Partly cus I enjoy it and partly just to get some movement in as I feel so stiff sitting for so long. The intensity isn't high but I do get a little warm and sometimes sweat if it's hot, but heart rate doesn't increase. I was going to add higher intensity cardio as you suggested (150bpm for 20-30mins) but just wanted to ask if what I am doing now will already give me the cardiac benefits we're looking for?
> 
> 2) Mrs wants to start a cycle. Is it worth starting on winstrol (don't have access to anavar) or just jump straight to test? Winny tabs are 50mg so would halving them, 25mg, be sufficient? Or if it's test P, u reckon 50mg is okay? Is the duration of the ccle the same as for men, 12-16 weeks? Should I incrase dosages over time? Basically what would be a good way to start these things for a women and then how to progresss them.
> 
> 3) she is on the pill. Would this affect anything? worth coming off etc?
> 
> Cheers!


 The medium intensity is the sweet spot for cardio in terms of benefits, time spent, etc. I would still add the 20 mins at 140-160 bpm. There are benefits you get from that , you won't get from walking. You will get a huge increase in BDNF which enhances cognition and mood, the heart will become more efficient at pumping blood and filling up, etc.

What is her goal? How long as she been training for consistently? I need more information to make a recommendation.

She can cycle while on birth control.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Yes.
> 
> I feel these affects often go unaddressed as long as x compound yields gainz. Tren is linked with Alzheimer's for instance.


 I wouldn't go with that study on tren/azheimers, it was done on rodents and extremely high levels were used.

The negative cardiovascular effects from AAS can lead to an increased risk of vascular dementia. This would take a lot of abuse and genetic predisposition and time though.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Does it make sense to add a replacement dose of T3, say 25mg e/d to a DNP cycle?


 Generally not worth the trouble, T3 might help with lethargy and mood though.


----------



## ElChapo

herc said:


> @El Chapo currently week 2 into test125 mast200 tren300 and my nipples are a little tender. Think I recall when running tren before (hrs ago) I got nipple issues but it's been a long time since I've run anything more than test/var lol..
> 
> What meds do I need to combat this issue?


 Extremely common side of tren ; gyno.

You will either have to drop the tren, or reverse the gyno once the cycle is finished. I don't run tren anymore due to gyno.

Winstrol and superdrol are just as powerful if not more for muscle and strength in my experience with less side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

Droida said:


> is dim worth using for estrogen control on trt or is it just a gimmick..
> 
> ive read micro dosing is a great way of controling e2 but is it worth doing with test e or is it just suitable for test p
> 
> thanks


 Gimmick


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> Very informative thread, thank you. What are your thoughts on using T3 during a lean bulk in order to minimise fat gain?


 Not worth it/unlikely to work.

If you want to lean bulk, keep your surplus low. 250-300 max. This will minimize fat gain and maximize muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Started last week. I did direct forearm work for the first time in ages, maybe I overdid it?
> 
> I was also doing rope tricep pulldowns and locking out at the bottom.
> 
> It's not that painful just feels awkward and slight pain down the back of my tricep down to my fingers.
> 
> Have had problems with shoulder impingement before so that could be another cause.
> 
> Thanks for the reply


 That's probably the cause.

Take a week off of direct work, if still hurts, take another week off of ALL training. This will let the inflammation go away.

Then you can restart the direct work but more slowly.

To prevent shoulder impingement issues, look into doing face pulls after your pressing exercises. This has resolved all issues for me, Has not failed me in +10 years.


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hello mate I hope you can advise me again
> 
> So a couple of weeks back I was on 500 mg test and using 0.25 arimidex and my eostrogen come back at 490 pmol ranges ( 49 pmol- 159 pmol. I've finished my blast and I'm now on 250 mg test e and I used 0.5 arimidex this mon, wed, fri to lower my eostrogen and my sex drive has changed for the worse. During my blast I was able to have good sex bit not amazing but now I'm not bothered and I'm Losing my erections during sex. Morning erections are good and my moods are much better. I'm less agitated and not ruminating about my problems.
> 
> Is it possible that I've nuked my eostrogen with in a week ?
> 
> thanks


 Yeah, Adex works fast.

Try 0.5 mg, that's a good HRT dose of Adex.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

If you were to go back on a bulk and your maintenance was 3000 but you ate 2500 monday to friday and then calculated the calories saturday and sunday so it worked at you were at a 2100 surplus for the week, would this work? or is it more complicated than that


----------



## leechild4

@ElChapo

you mention not going above 15% BF generally when running cycles. How do you normally recommend measuring as any scales you buy that measure can be off. I know there are bodpod and dexa scans but these can be pricey.


----------



## 19072

ElChapo said:


> Extremely common side of tren ; gyno.
> 
> You will either have to drop the tren, or reverse the gyno once the cycle is finished. I don't run tren anymore due to gyno.
> 
> Winstrol and superdrol are just as powerful if not more for muscle and strength in my experience with less side effects.


 I'll reverse the Gyno after course is complete. Winny gives my joints a beating and coming from MMA background they aren't the strongest drone years of grappling.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> If you were to go back on a bulk and your maintenance was 3000 but you ate 2500 monday to friday and then calculated the calories saturday and sunday so it worked at you were at a 2100 surplus for the week, would this work? or is it more complicated than that


 It wouldn't work as well because you arent providing your body the extra energy during recovery to build new tissue through out the week.

This can work for cutting though.


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> you mention not going above 15% BF generally when running cycles. How do you normally recommend measuring as any scales you buy that measure can be off. I know there are bodpod and dexa scans but these can be pricey.


 Calipers+visual estimation is fairly accurate

There is a single point caliper method that you can perform on yourself. I linked to it various times in this thread.

Look up muscleforlife body fat measurement you might find it.


----------



## gavzilla

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, Adex works fast.
> 
> Try 0.5 mg, that's a good HRT dose of Adex.


 Should I take a week off from adex ? Then adjust accordingly ? My sex drive was better with sky high eostrogen. One good thing with lower eostrogen is than my mind is more relaxed it's stopping me from being bitchy but I've got a girlfriend that that requires lots of sex.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo

i know you're not a fan of t3 but I've seen a post from Dante trudel saying 12.5mg for over 40's is a good idea. Not enough to shut you down but enough to keep levels up ?

As always thanks buddy.


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> Should I take a week off from adex ? Then adjust accordingly ? My sex drive was better with sky high eostrogen. One good thing with lower eostrogen is than my mind is more relaxed it's stopping me from being bitchy but I've got a girlfriend that that requires lots of sex.


 You can

Studies have shown those with low or normal e2 are more likely than high e2 to have libido issues.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i know you're not a fan of t3 but I've seen a post from Dante trudel saying 12.5mg for over 40's is a good idea. Not enough to shut you down but enough to keep levels up ?
> 
> As always thanks buddy.


 I have nothing against T3, its just overrated.

Idk about the benefit, i guess if you have lower t3 levels w/ symptoms and 12.5 mcg brings you up to normal levels it cant hurt. To blindly suggest it for anyone is foolish. Every patient is different.

Cant tell everyone over 40 to go on exactly 200 mg of testosterone. Some people dont need TRT, others will need much less than 200 mg.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Have you tried strengthening your abs? I used to have chronic low back pain. Since strengthening my abs significantly , my back pain is gone. Nothing is better than cable crunches in my opinion. This is the best video i've seen on how to do them:


 Can you perhaps recommend a good starting exercise for the abs which works around the lower back (does not put any strain on the back/lower back)?

Perhaps exercise(s) on the mat with your own body?

I tried the ab crunch on either a ball or on the mat, and in conjuction with a bunch of back and lower back exercises which i already perform every 3rd day, it actually ended up putting a bit too much strain on my lower back, so I had to cease doing the ab exercise.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Can you perhaps recommend a good starting exercise for the abs which works around the lower back (does not put any strain on the back/lower back)?
> 
> Perhaps exercise(s) on the mat with your own body?
> 
> I tried the ab crunch on either a ball or on the mat, and in conjuction with a bunch of back and lower back exercises which i already perform every 3rd day, it actually ended up putting a bit too much strain on my lower back, so I had to cease doing the ab exercise.


 There's a certain technique to doing the cable crunch. You need to start with low waiting and try to use only your abs, once you get it right, you will feel the pump and burn in your abs and not your back.

Your abs are weak so your back is doing all the work all the time, this leads to chronic low back pain. Once i strengthened my abs, i no longer had chronic back pain which i had for years. Cable crunches with good technique is what worked the best. I would not do lower back exercises, you don't need them if your back is already dominant.


----------



## Andro25

How do you compare 700 mg Test C + 350 mg Winstrol VS 300 mg Test C + 300 mg Tren E + 300 mg Mast E during a bulk with 300-500 kcal surplus starting with a single digit body fat?


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> How do you compare 700 mg Test C + 350 mg Winstrol VS 300 mg Test C + 300 mg Tren E + 300 mg Mast E during a bulk with 300-500 kcal surplus starting with a single digit body fat?


 Best results would be 700 mg test, 350 winstrol, 300 tren. Mast doesn't do much for mass or strength.


----------



## Simon90

What are your views on GDAs? A useful addition to a bulk or a waste of money?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> What are your views on GDAs? A useful addition to a bulk or a waste of money?


 Most likely wasteful.


----------



## zariph

Should you cycle off tudca, or can it be taken year round?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Should you cycle off tudca, or can it be taken year round?


 year round, its just a bile salt. naturally occuring substance. they used to get it from bear liver in ancient China.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Check out https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/SNPedia to get started.
> 
> Once you get your 23andme completed, download your RAW DNA date file and upload it to https://promethease.com. It's $5 and will tell you all about your different SNPs including slow/fast twitch muscle fiber, alzheimer's risk, etc.
> 
> https://selfhacked.com/blog/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/
> 
> https://selfhacked.com/blog/about-mao-a-and-what-to-do-if-you-have-the-warrior-gene/
> 
> http://anabolicgenes.com/blog/en/actn3-gene-the-strength-and-power-gene/
> 
> These are a few of the more interesting SNPs in my opinion. The warrior gene or COMT enzyme SNP is really interesting as it affects personality, pain/stress tolerance, etc.


 Thank you very much El Chapo, I'm hooked already!

LT


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Is cutting on 300mg enough to preserve muscle on someone who is 185 and 10% bf getting down to 6%? Tren has a certain look, to achieve that tren look what's the minimum dosage of tren ace recommended p/w?

apologies for all the questions in one, but I think my tren is EQ as I'm getting all the effects I get from EQ, also the smell is very similar, I never really noticed it with tren, worth ditching this for the cut and sticking with test at 300mg until I get some tren?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is cutting on 300mg enough to preserve muscle on someone who is 185 and 10% bf getting down to 6%? Tren has a certain look, to achieve that tren look what's the minimum dosage of tren ace recommended p/w?
> 
> apologies for all the questions in one, but I think my tren is EQ as I'm getting all the effects I get from EQ, also the smell is very similar, I never really noticed it with tren, worth ditching this for the cut and sticking with test at 300mg until I get some tren?


 300 mg should be enough for most people, as for "tren" look. It depends on the person's genetics (vascularity/skin thinness) some guys can get it on as little as 200 mg, others need much higher. Have you used tren before or this is your first time?

Buy yourself a labmax kit. You can test if it's tren. I think they go for around $15 USD. You will need to buy a UV flashlight.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What do you think of SARMs? are they worth it if you use AAS already ?


----------



## Nara

How is it possible to s**t out a full tablet? I took a tablet yesterday of winny and I saw it in my faeces lmao. Literally exactly the same as out of the tin. Uwotm8


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> 300 mg should be enough for most people, as for "tren" look. It depends on the person's genetics (vascularity/skin thinness) some guys can get it on as little as 200 mg, others need much higher. Have you used tren before or this is your first time?
> 
> Buy yourself a labmax kit. You can test if it's tren. I think they go for around $15 USD. You will need to buy a UV flashlight.


 @ElChapo

yeah I've tried tren before at 350mg a week (ace) yeah this stuff feels nothing like my last run, if anything my skin doesn't look freaky but more aesthetic which is what I get with EQ, I'm also having issues with libido, orgasm is very dull


----------



## spardaa

ME : Mrs wants to start a cycle. Is it worth starting on winstrol (don't have access to anavar) or just jump straight to test? Winny tabs are 50mg so would halving them, 25mg, be sufficient? Or if it's test P, u reckon 50mg is okay? Is the duration of the ccle the same as for men, 12-16 weeks? Should I incrase dosages over time? Basically what would be a good way to start these things for a women and then how to progresss them

you : What is her goal? How long as she been training for consistently? I need more information to make a recommendation.

Her Goal is mainly to build muscle, but also to recomp. Going for a women's figure look. I was thinking maybe winstrol at 25mg for 8-10 weeks to build some muscle then cut on low dose var (10mg?) for 6-8 weeks?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What do you think of SARMs? are they worth it if you use AAS already ?


 No


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> How is it possible to s**t out a full tablet? I took a tablet yesterday of winny and I saw it in my faeces lmao. Literally exactly the same as out of the tin. Uwotm8


 Pill was probably made wrong so it didn't dissolved properly.

You can chew and swallow it.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> yeah I've tried tren before at 350mg a week (ace) yeah this stuff feels nothing like my last run, if anything my skin doesn't look freaky but more aesthetic which is what I get with EQ, I'm also having issues with libido, orgasm is very dull


 Tren can cause libido issues but get a labmax to confirm.


----------



## Nara

ElChapo said:


> Pill was probably made wrong so it didn't dissolved properly.
> 
> You can chew and swallow it.


 Strange as it's sphinx winny and I've been using it for over a week and it's the first time I saw it in my stool. Will start chewing now


----------



## stewedw

Nara said:


> Strange as it's sphinx winny and I've been using it for over a week and it's the first time I saw it in my stool. Will start chewing now


 For what it's worth I didnt rate sphinx winny at all, did three weeks 50mg daily with rest in Feb and increased to 100mg before I noticed any of the effects you'd expect. It was from a reliable source too mate.


----------



## adam28

@El Chapo

Hello mate, i have high progesterone levels how would I go about lowering it? I also have slight lump appear under my nipple.

I'm on trt and my testosterone levels are 28 nmol I take adex 0.5 every 3 days

Thanks for any help

Cheers

Adam

Results attached

Ps I have been taking mt2, can that raise levels?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo whats your opinion on IF like 16:8 and the evidence behind the claimed benefits like autophagy, antiflammatory, insulin sensitivity, metabolism etc?


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hello mate, i have high progesterone levels how would I go about lowering it? I also have slight lump appear under my nipple.
> 
> I'm on trt and my testosterone levels are 28 nmol I take adex 0.5 every 3 days
> 
> Thanks for any help
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Adam
> 
> Results attached
> 
> Ps I have been taking mt2, can that raise levels?
> 
> View attachment 171811


 Do you have any other symptoms? I would not worry about it. If the lump bothers you, run nolvadex or ralox for 4-12 weeks.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo whats your opinion on IF like 16:8 and the evidence behind the claimed benefits like autophagy, antiflammatory, insulin sensitivity, metabolism etc?


 IF is good for maintaining low body fat and has decent evidence for it's health benefits. I've been doing it myself for almost a decade.

I don't stick to the whole 16:8. i just skip breakfast. The meal timing/window thing is unnecessary micro-managing.


----------



## 19072

What are the sides to cialis - even a dose as low as 5mg gives me headaches! What can I do to prevent this?


----------



## adam28

ElChapo said:


> Do you have any other symptoms? I would not worry about it. If the lump bothers you, run nolvadex or ralox for 4-12 weeks.


 Firstly thanks for your reply.

Only symptoms I have are aching cracking joints. And abit of fatigue and I dont even know if this is a symptom of high progesterone.

Would taking. 0.25 of caber lower progesterone abit? I mean a one off dose, as I dont want to crash it. 0.25 caber brings my prolactin down approx 80mu/l

Edit, I was recently on diclofenac slow release, could this raise progesterone?

Cheers


----------



## Jaydan

Hi el chapo. I ran another bloodtest this monday. I had alot of erection issues because of the tren e. Tren e has now cleared ly system (been 4-5 weeks). Im on 300 mg test cyp/wk and 0,25mg adex EOD yet my estro came in as 95. Even higher than before. Should i up the adex or is it bunk? I did get some good erections without any cialis yesterday (first time in 5 weeks)


----------



## Baka

adam28 said:


> Firstly thanks for your reply.
> 
> Only symptoms I have are aching cracking joints. And abit of fatigue and I dont even know if this is a symptom of high progesterone.
> 
> Would taking. 0.25 of caber lower progesterone abit? I mean a one off dose, as I dont want to crash it. 0.25 caber brings my prolactin down approx 80mu/l
> 
> Cheers


 just so you know , caber increase my progesterone x10 .

Caber is for prolactin , not progesterone .

People used to say I was crazy when I said caber increase progesterone , well I did 2 times blood works and I also found studies showing x10 increase levels of progesterone after caber use (it was in women , but does the same for me).

Did you use caber recently or in the last 3 months ?


----------



## adam28

Baka said:


> just so you know , caber increase my progesterone x10 .
> 
> Caber is for prolactin , not progesterone .
> 
> People used to say I was crazy when I said caber increase progesterone , well I did 2 times blood works and I also found studies showing x10 increase levels of progesterone after caber use (it was in women , but does the same for me).
> 
> Did you use caber recently or in the last 3 months ?


 Very interesting mate, thanks for the info. I used caber about 6 weeks ago, but only a one off 0.25 that's enough to put me back where my prolactin needs to be. It can creep up slowly

What pharmaceuticals lower progesterone then mate?


----------



## Baka

adam28 said:


> Very interesting mate, thanks for the info. I used caber about 6 weeks ago, but only a one off 0.25 that's enough to put me back where my prolactin needs to be. It can creep up slowly


 yes , one dose of 0.25 or 0.5 made my prog skyrocket , which is crazy because I used to take caber for gyro but it worsen it from really high prog .

even with really low E2 , if you have. high prog you can get high E2 symptoms and gyno.. I still never found a good way to reduce progesterone so I stopped using caber completely and I have same levels of prolactin than yours.


----------



## adam28

Baka said:


> yes , one dose of 0.25 or 0.5 made my prog skyrocket , which is crazy because I used to take caber for gyro but it worsen it from really high prog .
> 
> even with really low E2 , if you have. high prog you can get high E2 symptoms and gyno.. I still never found a good way to reduce progesterone so I stopped using caber completely and I have same levels of prolactin than yours.


 I was recently on diclofenac, I'm wondering if that can raise progesterone...


----------



## ElChapo

herc said:


> What are the sides to cialis - even a dose as low as 5mg gives me headaches! What can I do to prevent this?


 That and stuffy nose are the most common sides.

Try 2.5 mg or do 5 mg every other day.

Even 5 mg twice a week works if you already have normal erectile function.


----------



## ElChapo

adam28 said:


> Firstly thanks for your reply.
> 
> Only symptoms I have are aching cracking joints. And abit of fatigue and I dont even know if this is a symptom of high progesterone.
> 
> Would taking. 0.25 of caber lower progesterone abit? I mean a one off dose, as I dont want to crash it. 0.25 caber brings my prolactin down approx 80mu/l
> 
> Edit, I was recently on diclofenac slow release, could this raise progesterone?
> 
> Cheers


 No, again i wouldnt worry about it.


----------



## leechild4

When I see dosing of short water compounds as eod. Would have any negative impact if you just kept this to MWF three times a week?

Also when taking blood tests is there any ideal time to take them eg same day as an injection or on an off day? Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> When I see dosing of short water compounds as eod. Would have any negative impact if you just kept this to MWF three times a week?
> 
> Also when taking blood tests is there any ideal time to take them eg same day as an injection or on an off day? Thanks.


 None, try it and see. Myself and others have used short esters at x 2 per week or MWF with no problems.

Many female bodybuilders inject test prop once a week with good results.

I like drawing blood during troughs, at the lowest levels of the week.


----------



## spardaa

ME : Mrs wants to start a cycle. Is it worth starting on winstrol (don't have access to anavar) or just jump straight to test? Winny tabs are 50mg so would halving them, 25mg, be sufficient? Or if it's test P, u reckon 50mg is okay? Is the duration of the ccle the same as for men, 12-16 weeks? Should I incrase dosages over time? Basically what would be a good way to start these things for a women and then how to progresss them

you : What is her goal? How long as she been training for consistently? I need more information to make a recommendation.

@ElChapo - your question from before

Her Goal is mainly to build muscle, but also to recomp. Going for a women's figure look. I was thinking maybe winstrol at 25mg for 8-10 weeks to build some muscle then cut on low dose var (10mg?) for 6-8 weeks?


----------



## Sam R

@El Chapo minimum reccomended volume to maintain muscle? Moved from bodybuilding to boxing and looking to maintain the muscle I have with just two bodybuilding workouts per week. I'll still be using low doses of anabolics and training legs once a week and upper body once per week. How many sets per body part would you reccomend to maintain muscle? Thanks.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo benefits of taking 200-250mg masteron/week ? with 250mg test.

I'm on a small cut , I used to love low dose masteron but it made my hair fall quite fast and some acne. but iirc I had some better strength on it and looked better ofc (less water) , but is it worth the HDL/lipids decrease ?


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> ME : Mrs wants to start a cycle. Is it worth starting on winstrol (don't have access to anavar) or just jump straight to test? Winny tabs are 50mg so would halving them, 25mg, be sufficient? Or if it's test P, u reckon 50mg is okay? Is the duration of the ccle the same as for men, 12-16 weeks? Should I incrase dosages over time? Basically what would be a good way to start these things for a women and then how to progresss them
> 
> you : What is her goal? How long as she been training for consistently? I need more information to make a recommendation.
> 
> @ElChapo - your question from before
> 
> Her Goal is mainly to build muscle, but also to recomp. Going for a women's figure look. I was thinking maybe winstrol at 25mg for 8-10 weeks to build some muscle then cut on low dose var (10mg?) for 6-8 weeks?


 25 mg winstrol daily is a lot and that's if it's not overdosed. You didn't say how long she's been training for.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @El Chapo minimum reccomended volume to maintain muscle? Moved from bodybuilding to boxing and looking to maintain the muscle I have with just two bodybuilding workouts per week. I'll still be using low doses of anabolics and training legs once a week and upper body once per week. How many sets per body part would you reccomend to maintain muscle? Thanks.


 2 hard sets per muscle group per week will maintain muscle, with max intensity.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo benefits of taking 200-250mg masteron/week ? with 250mg test.
> 
> I'm on a small cut , I used to love low dose masteron but it made my hair fall quite fast and some acne. but iirc I had some better strength on it and looked better ofc (less water) , but is it worth the HDL/lipids decrease ?


 Not much, masteron is a polisher. Some people feel a mood and libido boost. As you noticed, it's bad on the hairline for those susceptible and also brings on BPH flare ups (prostate swelling) for some people.

If you like how you look and feel on it, go for it. It's not that bad on lipids. If you are going to cruise year round on it, i would suggest a 150/150 test/mast split.


----------



## spardaa

ElChapo said:


> 25 mg winstrol daily is a lot and that's if it's not overdosed. You didn't say how long she's been training for.


 training for I would say 6 years hard and knowing what she is doing. But 8 years of consistently training in the gym


----------



## spardaa

@ElChapo Another quick one - I want to cruise but also cut some fat gained from a blast/bulk. What dosage do you think is good to maintain muscle but also give body a break and let lipds/liver/kidney/bp etc come down? Note that as I'm cutting ill be doing cardio pretty much everyday and low cals (1800-2000)


----------



## zariph

Hello

If some1 did test + npp for 5weeks but wanted to switch the npp with deca - should you keep running npp few weeks when started deca or can you just replace npp with deca at first pin due to gene expression?


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> training for I would say 6 years hard and knowing what she is doing. But 8 years of consistently training in the gym


 I would do around 12.5 mg winstrol for 8-12 weeks. Just to get her feet wet, she should respond well if she knows how to train, eat and recovery.

You will be able to gauge how much virilization she gets. For the 2nd cycle she can bump up to 25 mg .

As for injectables, if you want to try it, 30 mg test p or NPP per week is a good dose. It's equivalent to a man running 300 mg test. You can split the injection to x 2 per week. Clitoris will get bigger (more pleasure) orgasms will be stronger and libido will increase. She can do 60 mg for her 2nd injectable cycle and go as high as 100 mg (virilization risk increases as dose goes up.

She won't need more than 25 mg winstrol daily or 100 mg test p or NPP to get figure physique. Some women are more susceptible than others to voice changes so start slow and gauge how she responds. The voice change/clit growth can be temporary or permanent depending on how long she cycles and her genetics.


----------



## ElChapo

spardaa said:


> @ElChapo Another quick one - I want to cruise but also cut some fat gained from a blast/bulk. What dosage do you think is good to maintain muscle but also give body a break and let lipds/liver/kidney/bp etc come down? Note that as I'm cutting ill be doing cardio pretty much everyday and low cals (1800-2000)


 300 mg test will do the job. Make sure BP and hematocrit are in range. You want BP under 135/90 mmhg and hematocrit no higher than 50%.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello
> 
> If some1 did test + npp for 5weeks but wanted to switch the npp with deca - should you keep running npp few weeks when started deca or can you just replace npp with deca at first pin due to gene expression?


 Just replace it, the DECA will be very high in your body from the first DECA injection.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo, what dose of Vitamin K2 do you recommend on cycle?


----------



## zariph

A mate is running test 400pw deca 400pw dbol 30mg a day - He is doing 12,5mg aromasin e3d but still getting gyno. Thing is if he ups the AI he feel bad and gets sore joint etc, so worried about if he will crash his E2 by doing more aromasin. Can dbol still cause gyno even tho this is happening to him on aromasin? Prolactin is normal range btw.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo, what dose of Vitamin K2 do you recommend on cycle?


 You should take it year round 100-200 mcg K2 (MK7) year round. It's proven to help prevent calcification of the arteries, one, if not the biggest risk factor of taking AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> A mate is running test 400pw deca 400pw dbol 30mg a day - He is doing 12,5mg aromasin e3d but still getting gyno. Thing is if he ups the AI he feel bad and gets sore joint etc, so worried about if he will crash his E2 by doing more aromasin. Can dbol still cause gyno even tho this is happening to him on aromasin? Prolactin is normal range btw.


 Deca and dbol are two of the worst gyno fuels available.

DECA will cause gyno no matter how low your E2 is if your susceptible. He can either drop the DECA and run nolvadex or raloxifene (20 mg and 60 mg ) daily to reverse the gyno, or finish the cycle and then reverse it. I would tell him to not run DECA anymore and avoid tren unless he doesn't mind reversing the gyno after every cycle.

DBOL converts into a very strong estrogen, so it can also cause gyno, but i'm 90% sure it's the DECA since the AI isn't working.

DECA/TREN have a very very strong progestin effect. You can get gyno wth either one even with E2 levels at 0. I've experimented with tren solo and have gotten gyno to prove this.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Deca and dbol are two of the worst gyno fuels available.
> 
> DECA will cause gyno no matter how low your E2 is if your susceptible. He can either drop the DECA and run nolvadex or raloxifene (20 mg and 60 mg ) daily to reverse the gyno, or finish the cycle and then reverse it. I would tell him to not run DECA anymore and avoid tren unless he doesn't mind reversing the gyno after every cycle.
> 
> DBOL converts into a very strong estrogen, so it can also cause gyno, but i'm 90% sure it's the DECA since the AI isn't working.
> 
> DECA/TREN have a very very strong progestin effect. You can get gyno wth either one even with E2 levels at 0. I've experimented with tren solo and have gotten gyno to prove this.


 Thank you for detailed reply! Can it be the deca even tho prolactin is normal? Can gyno come solely from pregesterone?


----------



## Armitage Shanks

@El Chapo I uploaded my 23&me raw data to Promethease. The top entry was *1.9x increased risk for coronary artery disease magnitude 4. *

*So K2 MK7 now on my list  *


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@El Chapo will prolonged HGH use continue to activate and utilize stem cells for creating new muscle/tissue cells, or is there a sort of limit to ones current stem cell pool?

And if so, is there any feasible way to replenish the pool?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for detailed reply! Can it be the deca even tho prolactin is normal? Can gyno come solely from pregesterone?


 Prolactin and progestin are two different hormones and unrelated. DECA attaches itself to the androgen AND progestin receptors. So the body thinks it's progestin. In face, tren is even stronger at doing this than progesterone itself, the natural progestin found in the human body.

Yes, the gyno can be caused by the progesterone by itself. This is why a lot of our brothers on this forum are asking for help after developing gyno on a tren cycle, thankfully, it is fully reversible.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Prolactin and progestin are two different hormones and unrelated. DECA attaches itself to the androgen AND progestin receptors. So the body thinks it's progestin. In face, tren is even stronger at doing this than progesterone itself, the natural progestin found in the human body.
> 
> Yes, the gyno can be caused by the progesterone by itself. This is why a lot of our brothers on this forum are asking for help after developing gyno on a tren cycle, thankfully, it is fully reversible.


 Nice thank you! Will caber help on pregesterone, or any other drug?


----------



## ElChapo

Armitage Shanks said:


> @El Chapo I uploaded my 23&me raw data to Promethease. The top entry was *1.9x increased risk for coronary artery disease magnitude 4. *
> 
> *So K2 MK7 now on my list  *


 Awesome, don't forget your cardio, control BP, etc.

Look into the ACTN gene, warrior gene, Oxytocin, APOE alzheimer's, those are some of the more interesting ones. Just put it in the search bar on promethease and you can find them.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @El Chapo will prolonged HGH use continue to activate and utilize stem cells for creating new muscle/tissue cells, or is there a sort of limit to ones current stem cell pool?
> 
> And if so, is there any feasible way to replenish the pool?


 I haven't seen any hard data about the whole "produce new cells" for GH. I don't think it matters for most people at the end of the day.

The most important effect we get from GH is anti-aging, wound healing, and breaking the limit of how much muscle the body can build/carry when combined with insulin.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice thank you! Will caber help on pregesterone, or any other drug?


 No, not really. If you are sensitive enough to get gyno from tren or deca, i recommend replacing the two with winstrol or superdrol. They will more than make up for it, I am one of those people who will get gyno on tren, thankfully i have reversed it many times and it's completely gone. I no longer use tren because that's a pain in the ass. I got the same issue on NPP.

You can still run tren/deca, but you will have to reverse the gyno everytime and that can take 4-12 weeks with nolvadex/ralox. The other option is to have your glands removed surgically or as i suggested, replacing tren/deca with winstrol or superdrol.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, not really. If you are sensitive enough to get gyno from tren or deca, i recommend replacing the two with winstrol or superdrol. They will more than make up for it, I am one of those people who will get gyno on tren, thankfully i have reversed it many times and it's completely gone. I no longer use tren because that's a pain in the ass. I got the same issue on NPP.
> 
> You can still run tren/deca, but you will have to reverse the gyno everytime and that can take 4-12 weeks with nolvadex/ralox. The other option is to have your glands removed surgically or as i suggested, replacing tren/deca with winstrol or superdrol.


 Thank you! Will caber only help on prolactin?

Cant run winny, never tried SD - what other recommendations you have, if any?


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Prolactin and progestin are two different hormones and unrelated. DECA attaches itself to the androgen AND progestin receptors. So the body thinks it's progestin. In face, tren is even stronger at doing this than progesterone itself, the natural progestin found in the human body.
> 
> Yes, the gyno can be caused by the progesterone by itself. This is why a lot of our brothers on this forum are asking for help after developing gyno on a tren cycle, thankfully, it is fully reversible.


 I get raging gyno from even a fairly small dose of tren but get on fine with deca. The only thing that keeps my gyno and limp dick issues at bay with tren is caber (prami sorted the limp dick but felt tired all the time and gyno still crept in after a few weeks) and I only use 125mg/week test with tren and some mast for the mood issues. Why is that would you say @ElChapo if it is progestin rather than prolactin that causes the gyno?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you! Will caber only help on prolactin?
> 
> Cant run winny, never tried SD - what other recommendations you have, if any?


 Yeah, caber will work on prolactin. Not everyone gets high prolactin on 19nors but i have seen it.

Superdrol and winstrol are the ones i've found to be as if not more potent than tren/deca. Superdrol is insanely effective in my experience.

The worst sides are lethargy and reduced appetite, not a big deal and much better than insomnia, limp dick, mood swings and gyno.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, caber will work on prolactin. Not everyone gets high prolactin on 19nors but i have seen it.
> 
> Superdrol and winstrol are the ones i've found to be as if not more potent than tren/deca. Superdrol is insanely effective in my experience.
> 
> The worst sides are lethargy and reduced appetite, not a big deal and much better than insomnia, limp dick, mood swings and gyno.


 thank you, but what I asked if is caber also help on progesterone?

What other cycle you recommend if not going to run winny or SD? Anything compared to it such a oxy+test, will oxy cause gyno same way as tren or deca?


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> I get raging gyno from even a fairly small dose of tren but get on fine with deca. The only thing that keeps my gyno and limp dick issues at bay with tren is caber (prami sorted the limp dick but felt tired all the time and gyno still crept in after a few weeks) and I only use 125mg/week test with tren and some mast for the mood issues. Why is that would you say @ElChapo if it is progestin rather than prolactin that causes the gyno?


 Yeah, the dopamine increase from caber can offset some of the tren sides like mood/libido (nothing to do with prolactin) but won't do anything for the gyno because it won't stop the progestin receptors from being activated.

Progesterone and estradiol is why women have tits. The transgender male to females that you see with legit natural breasts are taking estrogen AND progesterone to make that happen. Estrogen alone will not lead to full breast growth. The progesterone is important too for the "female curves" and breast development to happen.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thank you, but what I asked if is caber also help on progesterone?
> 
> What other cycle you recommend if not going to run winny or SD? Anything compared to it such a oxy+test, will oxy cause gyno same way as tren or deca?


 You can do test+DHB or test+EQ. Oxy isn't supposed to cause gyno but some have reported it. Anavar is another option.

It depends on your goals and what you are looking for.

Most people will be happy just having decent muscle development and being <12% body fat to look good, others wanna be huge muscle mutants. It's all relative.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You can do test+DHB or test+EQ. Oxy isn't supposed to cause gyno but some have reported it. Anavar is another option.
> 
> It depends on your goals and what you are looking for.
> 
> Most people will be happy just having decent muscle development and being <12% body fat to look good, others wanna be huge muscle mutants. It's all relative.


 Looking to add mass and strength, which is why I thought of oxy. Maybe high test + oxy? Can give DHB a try maybe.

Whats the reason of running EQ btw? Never used it.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Looking to add mass and strength, which is why I thought of oxy. Maybe high test + oxy? Can give DHB a try maybe.
> 
> Whats the reason of running EQ btw? Never used it.


 Oxy should do the job, even just a high test cycle will do the trick. No need to get fancy. I highly recommend Sdrol.

EQ is just an anabolic, not as androgenic as test and does not aromatize as much, has a mild drying and vascularity increasing effect in some people. It takes a while to kick and you need high doses to get a good effect. The ester is very long so the half-life is too.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, the dopamine increase from caber can offset some of the tren sides like mood/libido (nothing to do with prolactin) but won't do anything for the gyno because it won't stop the progestin receptors from being activated.
> 
> Progesterone and estradiol is why women have tits. The transgender male to females that you see with legit natural breasts are taking estrogen AND progesterone to make that happen. Estrogen alone will not lead to full breast growth. The progesterone is important too for the "female curves" and breast development to happen.


 You say caber won't do anything for gyno but with me it does, I tried a lower dose than usual on this cut and started to get painful left nipple after a few weeks. Increased dose of caber and boom sorted!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Oxy should do the job, even just a high test cycle will do the trick. No need to get fancy. I highly recommend Sdrol.
> 
> EQ is just an anabolic, not as androgenic as test and does not aromatize as much, has a mild drying and vascularity increasing effect in some people. It takes a while to kick and you need high doses to get a good effect. The ester is very long so the half-life is too.


 Will strength drop once stopping dbol or Sdrol, or can you keep building more if you keep running test after finnishing either of the orals?


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> You should take it year round 100-200 mcg K2 (MK7) year round. It's proven to help prevent calcification of the arteries, one, if not the biggest risk factor of taking AAS.


 Recommended brands for K2? I see a lot isn't actually MK7 what we need

Also if you could recommend a solid fish oil brand, that would be superb.

I've cut down my essentials to D3, K2, Fish Oil, Circumin and a Multi - anything you'd add or change? Cost is no issue. Also use tudca whilst running orals.

Thanks very much mate.


----------



## Abc987

Devil said:


> Recommended brands for K2? I see a lot isn't actually MK7 what we need
> 
> Also if you could recommend a solid fish oil brand, that would be superb.
> 
> I've cut down my essentials to D3, K2, Fish Oil, Circumin and a Multi - anything you'd add or change? Cost is no issue. Also use tudca whilst running orals.
> 
> Thanks very much mate.


 I use nu nutrition. Fairly priced and dosed. All of what you just mentioned I use theirs and most are a year supply


----------



## PSevens2017

Devil said:


> Recommended brands for K2? I see a lot isn't actually MK7 what we need
> 
> Also if you could recommend a solid fish oil brand, that would be superb.
> 
> I've cut down my essentials to D3, K2, Fish Oil, Circumin and a Multi - anything you'd add or change? Cost is no issue. Also use tudca whilst running orals.
> 
> Thanks very much mate.


 Life Extension is a decent brand for K2.

'Carlsons Norwegian fish oil' is what I use. Liquid form. You can get it on amazon flavoured with Lemon or Orange. £29/£30 a 500ml bottle. 100 x 5ml teaspoon servings.


----------



## arbffgadm100

PSevens2017 said:


> Life Extension is a decent brand for K2.
> 
> 'Carlsons Norwegian fish oil' is what I use. Liquid form. You can get it on amazon flavoured with Lemon or Orange. £29/£30 a 500ml bottle. 100 x 5ml teaspoon servings.


 Same.


----------



## Baka

PSevens2017 said:


> Life Extension is a decent brand for K2.
> 
> 'Carlsons Norwegian fish oil' is what I use. Liquid form. You can get it on amazon flavoured with Lemon or Orange. £29/£30 a 500ml bottle. 100 x 5ml teaspoon servings.


 is this fish oil better then caps ? you take 3 teaspoon/day ? to get 3-4g


----------



## PSevens2017

Baka said:


> is this fish oil better then caps ? you take 3 teaspoon/day ? to get 3-4g


 I prefer them over caps. This brand was recommended by ElChapo.

I take just under one tablespoon per day. In imperial mls, maybe works out at 15-18mls. So yes, around 3 teaspoons (one x imperial teaspoon is 5.9mls x 3 = 17.7mls).

Maths isn't my strong point. Think that's about right.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Will strength drop once stopping dbol or Sdrol, or can you keep building more if you keep running test after finnishing either of the orals?


 You can maintain your strength depending on various factors.

Cruise dosage, genetics, and how well you eat and train.

If you train right you should keep most of your strength but there are many variables.

I would not expect to keep getting stronger once you drop sdrol.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

hi elchapo,

lets say I eat 7k calories in a day, but the past month has been low, would all those excesss calories turn to fat? (7k calories in one sitting not spread over the day)


----------



## Jaling

@El Chapo

these are my most recent bloods.

ive been blasting on various compounds for nearly 12 months.

last results in November were almost identical to these.

can you check them and let me know if these look alarming for steroid use please?

i know my GP "normal no action " on all the highlighted results. I want to know if these levels are doing serious damage because steroids are present.

and would you consider this lipid reading "cooked " ?

another thing is, I was in a fasted state even though the test says otherwise.

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Recommended brands for K2? I see a lot isn't actually MK7 what we need
> 
> Also if you could recommend a solid fish oil brand, that would be superb.
> 
> I've cut down my essentials to D3, K2, Fish Oil, Circumin and a Multi - anything you'd add or change? Cost is no issue. Also use tudca whilst running orals.
> 
> Thanks very much mate.


 K2 (mk7) , some good brands are sports research, Jarrows, now foods or life extension super k. Make sure you consume with a fatty meal for optimal absorption.

The only thing i might add is pycnogenol, the stuff is very powerful and has a lot of research backing it up for enhancing circulation, congnitive function etc.

https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/

Your stack is good, simple but effective and proven. I'm not a fan of pill popping, your stack looks very similar to mine.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> is this fish oil better then caps ? you take 3 teaspoon/day ? to get 3-4g


 Carlson's is one of the highest quality brands, the price is very good, and the flavor excellent for a fish oil. The orange and lemon liquid fish oil is highly palatable.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hi elchapo,
> 
> lets say I eat 7k calories in a day, but the past month has been low, would all those excesss calories turn to fat? (7k calories in one sitting not spread over the day)


 The body has a weird way of burning excess energy intake, you could theoretically store most of it, but in overfeeding studies, the metabolism actually ramps up when overfeeding happens. That's a really good question, that huge amount of food might not even get fully processed but you would definitely store a ton of fat. There are guys who have undone their cuts in as little as a weekend from overfeeding.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> these are my most recent bloods.
> 
> ive been blasting on various compounds for nearly 12 months.
> 
> last results in November were almost identical to these.
> 
> can you check them and let me know if these look alarming for steroid use please?
> 
> i know my GP "normal no action " on all the highlighted results. I want to know if these levels are doing serious damage because steroids are present.
> 
> and would you consider this lipid reading "cooked " ?
> 
> another thing is, I was in a fasted state even though the test says otherwise.
> 
> thanks
> 
> View attachment 171959
> 
> 
> View attachment 171961


 Looks fine,

you need to realize that the damage steroids cause will never, ever show up on blood work barring acute liver damage/stress.

The way steroids kill people is by increasing calcification of the arteries, heart structure changes, increasing the risk of stroke and heart attack by increasing blood thickness, blood pressure, etc.

The best way to stay healthy on steroids is too make sure you don't run harsh compounds or high doses year round, control blood pressure, estradiol and make sure you do cardio year round (preferably the type that keeps you at 140-160 bpm a few times a week)


----------



## Devil

Abc987 said:


> I use nu nutrition. Fairly priced and dosed. All of what you just mentioned I use theirs and most are a year supply





PSevens2017 said:


> Life Extension is a decent brand for K2.
> 
> 'Carlsons Norwegian fish oil' is what I use. Liquid form. You can get it on amazon flavoured with Lemon or Orange. £29/£30 a 500ml bottle. 100 x 5ml teaspoon servings.





ElChapo said:


> K2 (mk7) , some good brands are sports research, Jarrows, now foods or life extension super k. Make sure you consume with a fatty meal for optimal absorption.
> 
> The only thing i might add is pycnogenol, the stuff is very powerful and has a lot of research backing it up for enhancing circulation, congnitive function etc.
> 
> https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/
> 
> Your stack is good, simple but effective and proven. I'm not a fan of pill popping, your stack looks very similar to mine.


 Thank you for the input as always chaps, i'll check it all out.


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Looks fine,
> 
> you need to realize that the damage steroids cause will never, ever show up on blood work barring acute liver damage/stress.
> 
> The way steroids kill people is by increasing calcification of the arteries, heart structure changes, increasing the risk of stroke and heart attack by increasing blood thickness, blood pressure, etc.
> 
> The best way to stay healthy on steroids is too make sure you don't run harsh compounds or high doses year round, control blood pressure, estradiol and make sure you do cardio year round (preferably the type that keeps you at 140-160 bpm a few times a week)


 Thanks for getting back.

is the calcification not due to cholesterol numbers being s**t?

alao my RBC width is high. Isn't this the blood thickening effects of the steroids? Abnormal sizes of the cells.

is there a test(s) you'd recommend I can have done to see what/if any (yet) damage has been done?


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

Aside from regular cardio for heart health, is there any supplement i could add to my supp stack for heart health, my list below all taken daily, i blast and trt.

300mg cod liver oil

25mg Zinc gluconate

600mg NAC

2000iu vit d

100mg magnesium citrate

500mg citrus bergamot

1 tab of multivitman and minerals.

2.5mg taladafil

I am going to get k2 aswell, going to order some on thursday, is there any in that list pointless taking? Cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Thanks for getting back.
> 
> is the calcification not due to cholesterol numbers being s**t?
> 
> alao my RBC width is high. Isn't this the blood thickening effects of the steroids? Abnormal sizes of the cells.
> 
> is there a test(s) you'd recommend I can have done to see what/if any (yet) damage has been done?


 That is only one cause, having high/low E2, high BP and high hematocrit as well as the androgenic effect.

No, you only need to worry about the hematocrit (percentage of the blood that is red blood cells) and the RBC ( the number of red blood cells).

You want those under 50 and 17 respectively, most AAS user will end up over 50 after sometime, some are so sensitive that even TRT will make this happen, a blood donation will drop the Hematocrit by 2-3% and Hemoglobin by about 1 point.

A double red blood cell donation will be double effect of a regular whole blood donation.

You can do echocardiograms, calcium scoring imaging, coronary catherization, etc.

What you are looking for is blood flow through the heart chambers, structural changes, narrowing of blood vessels, calcium/plaque build up, etc. AAS will negatively affect all these things if abused and in those with a genetic susceptibility.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Aside from regular cardio for heart health, is there any supplement i could add to my supp stack for heart health, my list below all taken daily, i blast and trt.
> 
> 300mg cod liver oil
> 
> 25mg Zinc gluconate
> 
> 600mg NAC
> 
> 2000iu vit d
> 
> 100mg magnesium citrate
> 
> 500mg citrus bergamot
> 
> 1 tab of multivitman and minerals.
> 
> 2.5mg taladafil
> 
> I am going to get k2 aswell, going to order some on thursday, is there any in that list pointless taking? Cheers!


 I would sub cod liver oil with regular fish oil. Cod liver has a lot less omega 3s and a lot more vitamin A/D.

K2 is a great addition for cardiovascular health. Pine bark extract or pycnogenol is another potent supplement for heart health and circulation.

Your stack looks good. Make sure your vitamin D is no lower than 40 ng/mL year round and no higher than 80 ng/mL.


----------



## Whoremoan1

> On 4/25/2019 at 5:00 PM, Jaydan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Hi
> *
> 
> Im currently having some serious erection issues. I cannot get a hard on. I can still ejaculate and it feels good but its with a soft penis and it takes a while.
> 
> A week ago i finished a 600 test cyp /400 tren e cycle but i had stop because i felt heavy anxiety/no hunger/lethargy Today i still feel this anxiety/lethargy, i think it is still the tren e but im also afraid it might be crashed estrogen. Currently still running 600 test cyp. During this cycle i had no ED issues. While on this cycle i was running 0,5 Mg adex MWF. In the past i frequently ran 0,5 adex EOD and had no issues so im really in the dark here. Did i crash estro or is my estro too high because i think im getting sides from both. While on tren i was running 0,5mg caber twice a week for prolactin. Also libido is not the issue, i want sex so bad. I just cant get it up.
> 
> I just got some proviron and cialis today so i hope this will help.


 This is a very common side effect of tren, especially when ran with testosterone. It's unlikely that amount of adex crashed your E2 at that level of testosterone (if the test is accurately dosed)

Wait for the tren E to clear your system, you just stopped taking it. Your erections will probably come back soon.

It's always smart to carry cialis when running tren or deca as ED is very common. I always push for people to carry cialis and ralox/nolvadex to cover the two most common sides of tren/deca; ED and gyno.

i just saw this ,, is there anyway to combat this without dropping tren or adding cialis? assuming estro is fine

maybe upping test, adding proviron or hcg etc?

would swapping out tren e for npp possibly make it better?


----------



## Whoremoan1

Baka said:


> bad blood circulation from high RBC/hematocrit ?


 if this was the case baka how would you fix?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> On 4/25/2019 at 5:00 PM, Jaydan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Hi
> *
> 
> Im currently having some serious erection issues. I cannot get a hard on. I can still ejaculate and it feels good but its with a soft penis and it takes a while.
> 
> A week ago i finished a 600 test cyp /400 tren e cycle but i had stop because i felt heavy anxiety/no hunger/lethargy Today i still feel this anxiety/lethargy, i think it is still the tren e but im also afraid it might be crashed estrogen. Currently still running 600 test cyp. During this cycle i had no ED issues. While on this cycle i was running 0,5 Mg adex MWF. In the past i frequently ran 0,5 adex EOD and had no issues so im really in the dark here. Did i crash estro or is my estro too high because i think im getting sides from both. While on tren i was running 0,5mg caber twice a week for prolactin. Also libido is not the issue, i want sex so bad. I just cant get it up.
> 
> I just got some proviron and cialis today so i hope this will help.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very common side effect of tren, especially when ran with testosterone. It's unlikely that amount of adex crashed your E2 at that level of testosterone (if the test is accurately dosed)
> 
> Wait for the tren E to clear your system, you just stopped taking it. Your erections will probably come back soon.
> 
> It's always smart to carry cialis when running tren or deca as ED is very common. I always push for people to carry cialis and ralox/nolvadex to cover the two most common sides of tren/deca; ED and gyno.
> 
> i just saw this ,, is there anyway to combat this without dropping tren or adding cialis? assuming estro is fine
> 
> maybe upping test, adding proviron or hcg etc?
> 
> would swapping out tren e for npp possibly make it better?
Click to expand...

 Cialis can work, but when it's really bad. many guys will go soft after a few minutes even with cialis. Erections involve many different systems in the body including dopamine in the brain, nitric oxide levels, circulation, etc.

Some people find that masteron and DHT based androgens can help too, this is anecdotal.

No, NPP has the same problem, it has very powerful progestin receptor binding ability. It's possible you might react worst to tren than nandrolone but i wouldn't count on it.

If i run tren solo in low doses, erections are extremely hard and libido is really good, but when i add test or go higher, libido and erections suffer.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> if this was the case baka how would you fix?


 @Baka

whole blood donation will drop HCT 2-3 points and HGB 1 point most of the time. Double RBC donation will double that.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, caber will work on prolactin. Not everyone gets high prolactin on 19nors but i have seen it.
> 
> Superdrol and winstrol are the ones i've found to be as if not more potent than tren/deca. Superdrol is insanely effective in my experience.
> 
> The worst sides are lethargy and reduced appetite, not a big deal and much better than insomnia, limp dick, mood swings and gyno.


 It would be awesome to have access to injectable Sdrol.

I have used the one from Purple Panda Lab and it was simply awesome, all the benefits from the pill without all the sides!!

Winny instead injectable or tabs, i don't know but i prefer the tabs, injectable it seems similar to tabs....

Imho Tren is awesome when you bulk if you use HGH and Insulin, without these,..... i don't know it seems that it will be there to literally trash away what you eat.

High Tren low Test for me never worked good for growing, Test:Tren in 1:! 1,5:1 2:1 ratio instead always lead to good gains, but E2 must stay at high rage of E2 or forget to see Tren doing his anabolic magic.

It was my experience.... What do you think @El Chapo @ghost.recon ?


----------



## SlinMeister

Devil said:


> Recommended brands for K2? I see a lot isn't actually MK7 what we need
> 
> Also if you could recommend a solid fish oil brand, that would be superb.
> 
> I've cut down my essentials to D3, K2, Fish Oil, Circumin and a Multi - anything you'd add or change? Cost is no issue. Also use tudca whilst running orals.
> 
> Thanks very much mate.


 Why you don't eat 200g of spinaches every day? they have a ton of K2....


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Since SDROL is "masteron methylated" (ofc works in a different way), does it raises dht levels like Winstrol?

Due to its toxicity can be used max for 4-6w right?


----------



## Baka

Whoremoan1 said:


> if this was the case baka how would you fix?


 blood donation every 56 days , and take grapefruit seed extract 250mg morning 250 evening , or take 500mg naringin a day.

Works really well for me , don't even have to give blood anymore it keeps my hematocrit to 50-51 and HMG to 16-17


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Hiya boss

So, I'm doing a bit of fasting right now to keep create/maintain my deficit. The problem with that is, I take the majority of my health sups in the morning so as to have them as far away from training (PM) as possible, for obvs reasons.

Right now I'm (not technically fasting, but since it's for a deficit, not autophagy, it doesn't matter about the 200 or so cals that I am intaking in the AM..) having a dessert spoon of fish oil and a teaspoon of nut butter in the AM with my health sups (D3, K2, etc, that need some fats to be properly absorbed).

Is this amount of fat enough to absorb everything, or am I just creating expensive poops/piss? other than a coffee with whole milk, that's all I'm having until about 3-4 PM.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> It would be awesome to have access to injectable Sdrol.
> 
> I have used the one from Purple Panda Lab and it was simply awesome, all the benefits from the pill without all the sides!!
> 
> Winny instead injectable or tabs, i don't know but i prefer the tabs, injectable it seems similar to tabs....
> 
> Imho Tren is awesome when you bulk if you use HGH and Insulin, without these,..... i don't know it seems that it will be there to literally trash away what you eat.
> 
> High Tren low Test for me never worked good for growing, Test:Tren in 1:! 1,5:1 2:1 ratio instead always lead to good gains, but E2 must stay at high rage of E2 or forget to see Tren doing his anabolic magic.
> 
> It was my experience.... What do you think @El Chapo @ghost.recon ?


 I agree with you on everything except that tren does not have a magic effect of making you stay lean when eating anything.

High test high tren has the best gains but more sides.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Since SDROL is "masteron methylated" (ofc works in a different way), does it raises dht levels like Winstrol?
> 
> Due to its toxicity can be used max for 4-6w right?


 Winstrol does not raise DHT, it is a DHT based steroid.

You can run sdrol +12 weeks but i suggest NAC and TUDCA if doing so.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hiya boss
> 
> So, I'm doing a bit of fasting right now to keep create/maintain my deficit. The problem with that is, I take the majority of my health sups in the morning so as to have them as far away from training (PM) as possible, for obvs reasons.
> 
> Right now I'm (not technically fasting, but since it's for a deficit, not autophagy, it doesn't matter about the 200 or so cals that I am intaking in the AM..) having a dessert spoon of fish oil and a teaspoon of nut butter in the AM with my health sups (D3, K2, etc, that need some fats to be properly absorbed).
> 
> Is this amount of fat enough to absorb everything, or am I just creating expensive poops/piss? other than a coffee with whole milk, that's all I'm having until about 3-4 PM.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 That's more than enough fat for absorption. You only need around +10 grams of fat.

Why don't you just take your supps with the biggest meal of the day?

You will probably have better absorption with a big meal because this lets the vitamins spend more time being absorbed vs fasted intake.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> That's more than enough fat for absorption. You only need around +10 grams of fat.
> 
> Why don't you just take your supps with the biggest meal of the day?
> 
> You will probably have better absorption with a big meal because this lets the vitamins spend more time being absorbed vs fasted intake.


 Thank you for the answer mate!

Because my biggest meals of the day are pre and post workout... which means, so I understand, that it can blunt the mTor and or AMPk signalling cascades. Over time this might reduce the training effect significantly. Or no?


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thank you for the answer mate!
> 
> Because my biggest meals of the day are pre and post workout... which means, so I understand, that it can blunt the mTor and or AMPk signalling cascades. Over time this might reduce the training effect significantly. Or no?


 No, just take your supps with your big meal.


----------



## Mickstar

Hi mate I've noticed what can describe as a disk like shape behind my left nipple is this the start of gyno , I don't have any sensitivity or pain there , if it is gyno would I better off dealing with it as soon as I can or deal with it during pct. I have another 7 weeks of cycle left and I'm running 500mg test e a week. Thanks


----------



## Jaling

@El Chapo

ive just started 10mg tamoxifen ED to my current cycle as I've added anadrol 100mg m/w/f and want to prevent any possible anadrol gyno.

I've read tamoxifen reduces the effectiveness of Adex. Which I currently have running too at a dose that's working. Am I likely to need to change the dose of my Adex because I'm running tamoxifen?

thanks


----------



## Malin

How long after a t3 cycle does thyroid recover to normal levels?


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi mate I've noticed what can describe as a disk like shape behind my left nipple is this the start of gyno , I don't have any sensitivity or pain there , if it is gyno would I better off dealing with it as soon as I can or deal with it during pct. I have another 7 weeks of cycle left and I'm running 500mg test e a week. Thanks


 Are you running any AI? That IS gyno development, the disc grows until it turns into a tit.

Get yourself some nolvadex or raloxifene. Run it for 4-12 weeks at 20/ 60 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> ive just started 10mg tamoxifen ED to my current cycle as I've added anadrol 100mg m/w/f and want to prevent any possible anadrol gyno.
> 
> I've read tamoxifen reduces the effectiveness of Adex. Which I currently have running too at a dose that's working. Am I likely to need to change the dose of my Adex because I'm running tamoxifen?
> 
> thanks


 It's not enough a problem to make a difference. Also some people think it makes AI work less because it can pop as increased estrogen in blood work.

Just keep your dose where it is unless you notice high e2 symptoms.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> How long after a t3 cycle does thyroid recover to normal levels?


 4-6 weeks , thyroid should be back to normal.


----------



## Mickstar

ElChapo said:


> Are you running any AI? That IS gyno development, the disc grows until it turns into a tit.
> 
> Get yourself some nolvadex or raloxifene. Run it for 4-12 weeks at 20/ 60 mg.


 Thanks mate yeah I've been running 1mg of adex a week half a tab e3d.it doesn't look too bad but I can definitely feel it behind the nipple. I've got nolvadex on hand so I'll run that at 20mg a day. Do you know if that disk will go away or will the nolvadex just stop it growing. Thanks again.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol does not raise DHT, it is a DHT based steroid.
> 
> You can run sdrol +12 weeks but i suggest NAC and TUDCA if doing so.


 Yes mate but i did bloods on 200mg TestP (M F) as TRT ( yes i copied you, and YES i feel AWESOME) :

350mg Proviron Bayer -> DHT 1935pg/ml

300mg Stanolone (no ester) -> DHT 9000pg/ml

350 Winstrol well known UGL here -> DHT 3000ish pg/ml

Never tried that on Sdrol....... i would like to know if i will see elevation on DHTs.

Low bf, E2<25pg/ml, High DHT (3k+) will make you look dry and grainy like a stone!


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Thanks mate yeah I've been running 1mg of adex a week half a tab e3d.it doesn't look too bad but I can definitely feel it behind the nipple. I've got nolvadex on hand so I'll run that at 20mg a day. Do you know if that disk will go away or will the nolvadex just stop it growing. Thanks again.


 Nolvadex will reverse it, it can take 4-12 weeks. I would up the adex a bit since it wasn't enough to keep the gyno away. 1.5-2 mg weekly.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Yes mate but i did bloods on 200mg TestP (M F) as TRT ( yes i copied you, and YES i feel AWESOME) :
> 
> 350mg Proviron Bayer -> DHT 1935pg/ml
> 
> 300mg Stanolone (no ester) -> DHT 9000pg/ml
> 
> 350 Winstrol well known UGL here -> DHT 3000ish pg/ml
> 
> Never tried that on Sdrol....... i would like to know if i will see elevation on DHTs.
> 
> Low bf, E2<25pg/ml, High DHT (3k+) will make you look dry and grainy like a stone!


 It's not increasing your DHT, the test thinks winstrol/proviron/etc are DHT because they are structurally similar ( they are made from DHT )

The same thing would likely happen on SDROL.


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> It's not enough a problem to make a difference. Also some people think it makes AI work less because it can pop as increased estrogen in blood work.
> 
> Just keep your dose where it is unless you notice high e2 symptoms.


 Would 10mg tamoxifen ED be enough to combat anadrol gyno at pulsing doses of 100mg 3x/week?


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Would 10mg tamoxifen ED be enough to combat anadrol gyno at pulsing doses of 100mg 3x/week?


 It should work, especially since you may not even get gyno on anadrol. Technically, anadrol is not supposed to cause gyno but anecdotally people claim it does. it could be contimation or dbol substitution. Who knows


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It's not increasing your DHT, the test thinks winstrol/proviron/etc are DHT because they are structurally similar ( they are made from DHT )
> 
> The same thing would likely happen on SDROL.


 AWESOME!!!


----------



## zariph

Hey got few different quesions -hope you can help!

1. Is it possible that people who respond bad to natural training also will respond bad to AAS, same for guy who is a great responder will most likely respond great to AAS? Im asking since I see a lot of top bodyduilders looked great even at very young age.

2. View on mk677?

3. Is it true that the body stops responding to steroid after a certain time being ON. lets say a 1year cycle - I've read that you need to come off after 16weeks max oterwise you wont keep seeing results? Also does thish mean its better to switch compound every cycle? thank you


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey got few different quesions -hope you can help!
> 
> 1. Is it possible that people who respond bad to natural training also will respond bad to AAS, same for guy who is a great responder will most likely respond great to AAS? Im asking since I see a lot of top bodyduilders looked great even at very young age.
> 
> 2. View on mk677?
> 
> 3. Is it true that the body stops responding to steroid after a certain time being ON. lets say a 1year cycle - I've read that you need to come off after 16weeks max oterwise you wont keep seeing results? Also does thish mean its better to switch compound every cycle? thank you


 1.Kevin Levrone and Ronnie coleman were both skinny teenagers.

Most people don't respond well to natural training because they don't know how to train or eat enough food but there is a small percentage of the population that does not respond as well to training as the average person. This has been seen in studies where they track calories/training and a small % responded poorly.

2.Mk677 is a little interesting, i wouldn't bet on it for amazing gains or anything, but for anti-aging and maybe pushing gains a little bit further, there might be some use.

3. 100% bullshit, pros are on AAS year round. If this were true, they wouldn't be huge and would stop growing. You don't have to switch compounds either. What pushes new muscle growth is training stimulus and sufficient calories to create new muscle tissue with sufficient rest for recovery. AAS and PEDs help the body exceed it's genetic limit, but the fundamentals still apply.


----------



## pma111

Do you recommend examine.com as a reliable source of what supplements are worthwhile or not. Seen you link to it a couple of times. Just read melatonin for stomach ulcers which is one of the most random links ever but sounds legit.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Do you recommend examine.com as a reliable source of what supplements are worthwhile or not. Seen you link to it a couple of times. Just read melatonin for stomach ulcers which is one of the most random links ever but sounds legit.


 Yes, it's 100% evidence based and they link to a ton of studies. I think their creatine article has over +700 research papers linked.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 1.Kevin Levrone and Ronnie coleman were both skinny teenagers.
> 
> Most people don't respond well to natural training because they don't know how to train or eat enough food but there is a small percentage of the population that does not respond as well to training as the average person. This has been seen in studies where they track calories/training and a small % responded poorly.
> 
> 2.Mk677 is a little interesting, i wouldn't bet on it for amazing gains or anything, but for anti-aging and maybe pushing gains a little bit further, there might be some use.
> 
> 3. 100% bullshit, pros are on AAS year round. If this were true, they wouldn't be huge and would stop growing. You don't have to switch compounds either. What pushes new muscle growth is training stimulus and sufficient calories to create new muscle tissue with sufficient rest for recovery. AAS and PEDs help the body exceed it's genetic limit, but the fundamentals still apply.


 Thank you! Regarding questions 1 - Some people do react better to AAS tho than others - or is it also about finding witch compounds work best for you, as some1 might grow great on high test low deca vice versa?

It probably depends on a lot of things, but how would you generally setup up first, second and third steroid cycle for an individual looking to gain size?

In your opinion, how would the optimal %distribution of macros be when cycling AAS?


----------



## Whoremoan1

> On 5/23/2019 at 11:17 PM, SlinMeister said:
> 
> Yes mate but i did bloods on 200mg TestP (M F) as TRT ( yes i copied you, and YES i feel AWESOME) :
> 
> 350mg Proviron Bayer -> DHT 1935pg/ml
> 
> 300mg Stanolone (no ester) -> DHT 9000pg/ml
> 
> 350 Winstrol well known UGL here -> DHT 3000ish pg/ml
> 
> Never tried that on Sdrol....... i would like to know if i will see elevation on DHTs.
> 
> Low bf, E2<25pg/ml, High DHT (3k+) will make you look dry and grainy like a stone!


 It's not increasing your DHT, the test thinks winstrol/proviron/etc are DHT because they are structurally similar ( they are made from DHT )

The same thing would likely happen on SDROL.

with this ; would ultra sensitive test (lcms) give a true reading of dht?


----------



## SlinMeister

Whoremoan1 said:


> On 5/23/2019 at 11:17 PM, SlinMeister said:
> 
> Yes mate but i did bloods on 200mg TestP (M F) as TRT ( yes i copied you, and YES i feel AWESOME) :
> 
> 350mg Proviron Bayer -> DHT 1935pg/ml
> 
> 300mg Stanolone (no ester) -> DHT 9000pg/ml
> 
> 350 Winstrol well known UGL here -> DHT 3000ish pg/ml
> 
> Never tried that on Sdrol....... i would like to know if i will see elevation on DHTs.
> 
> Low bf, E2<25pg/ml, High DHT (3k+) will make you look dry and grainy like a stone!
> 
> 
> 
> It's not increasing your DHT, the test thinks winstrol/proviron/etc are DHT because they are structurally similar ( they are made from DHT )
> 
> The same thing would likely happen on SDROL.
> 
> with this ; would ultra sensitive test (lcms) give a true reading of dht?
Click to expand...

 I asked just to test my dht levels....


----------



## Redsy

Thoughts on DHB? Gimmick?

Interested in raising endurance/cardio and tried various cycles now.

Liked EQ/test though not convinced it raised RBC enough I felt any improvement in cardio. Downside I was always hungry and trying to cut.

Last time did low dose RIP blend with tren in. Strength up for sure, sprints, power efforts. Thanks to your advice cardio wasn't wiped out, but was affected.

All cycles have given a level of muscle fatigue whilst riding am pretty sure wouldn't had had clean.

So, looking at keeping strength, improving long cardio ie sitting at heart rate 150+ for 2hrs.

Anything with some EPO like effects?


----------



## SlinMeister

Redsy said:


> Thoughts on DHB? Gimmick?
> 
> Interested in raising endurance/cardio and tried various cycles now.
> 
> Liked EQ/test though not convinced it raised RBC enough I felt any improvement in cardio. Downside I was always hungry and trying to cut.
> 
> Last time did low dose RIP blend with tren in. Strength up for sure, sprints, power efforts. Thanks to your advice cardio wasn't wiped out, but was affected.
> 
> All cycles have given a level of muscle fatigue whilst riding am pretty sure wouldn't had had clean.
> 
> So, looking at keeping strength, improving long cardio ie sitting at heart rate 150+ for 2hrs.
> 
> Anything with some EPO like effects?


 Answer it's easy use 20mg GW501516 aka Cardarine every day. More won't improve your performance. In 2 weeks you will feel all the benefits.

250-300 TestE and 300mg MastE

Cardarine will take care of your cardio endurance.

Test and Mast will just help you on keeping metabolism going and little anabolism.

Tren isn't ideal for endurance at all, it's detrimental.

Winstrol can be useful if you need more speed.

I doubt you will look to add muscles, if you look for cardio endurance.

A friend of mine is a professional swimmer and uses just this stack, sometimes EQ but from veterinarian.

Hope this will help.


----------



## S123

SlinMeister said:


> Answer it's easy use 20mg GW501516 aka Cardarine every day. More won't improve your performance. In 2 weeks you will feel all the benefits.
> 
> 250-300 TestE and 300mg MastE
> 
> Cardarine will take care of your cardio endurance.
> 
> Test and Mast will just help you on keeping metabolism going and little anabolism.
> 
> Tren isn't ideal for endurance at all, it's detrimental.
> 
> Winstrol can be useful if you need more speed.
> 
> I doubt you will look to add muscles, if you look for cardio endurance.
> 
> A friend of mine is a professional swimmer and uses just this stack, sometimes EQ but from veterinarian.
> 
> Hope this will help.


 Can you please stop giving advice like you're a guru, I know you mean well but you haven't even posted a picture to back your claims, the last picture I saw of you was on boatloads of drugs and gh and you were 17% bf with 15 inch arms


----------



## swole troll

Not aimed at anyone in particular as I myself have done this in the past ITT once or twice but this is an AMA for ghost recon and elchapo not a freeforall (that's what the rest of the forum is for)

I feel like unless specifically tagged this thread should be kept as just the OP (and title tagged member) to answer as the name of the thread states.

It's already an encyclopedia of information that needs the bare minimum of off topic clutter imo

'Off topic' being questions NOT answered by ghost recon or elchapo


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Thoughts on DHB? Gimmick?
> 
> Interested in raising endurance/cardio and tried various cycles now.
> 
> Liked EQ/test though not convinced it raised RBC enough I felt any improvement in cardio. Downside I was always hungry and trying to cut.
> 
> Last time did low dose RIP blend with tren in. Strength up for sure, sprints, power efforts. Thanks to your advice cardio wasn't wiped out, but was affected.
> 
> All cycles have given a level of muscle fatigue whilst riding am pretty sure wouldn't had had clean.
> 
> So, looking at keeping strength, improving long cardio ie sitting at heart rate 150+ for 2hrs.
> 
> Anything with some EPO like effects?


 EQ has been shown to not increase RBC more than testosterone itself. Maybe it gives increased endurance by another mechanism though but i've seen no evidence.

DHB is like mast/winstrol. It has DHT/drying effects, not a lot of anecdotes on it yet. I would have it in a cycle in place of masteron or primo.

I've seen anecdotes that Melodonium is very good for endurance training and competition. You also want your HCT on the higher side in the lower/mid 50s for optimal endurance. Tour de france only lets you have it around 50% i believe. High enough testosterone dose will pump up RBC/HCT, many get high levels on only HRT doses but that's genetic.

AAS have very limited potential for endurance enhancement, as you've noticed, that fatigue/pump feeling will really cook your endurance and stamina levels if not kept in check. The AAS can increase recovery and training/pain tolerance (maybe sprinting speed) but that's about it.


----------



## Whoremoan1

SlinMeister said:


> I asked just to test my dht levels....


 yeh i got dht tested but in lcms, wondering if this is an accurate reading of my dht levels


----------



## SlinMeister

S123 said:


> Can you please stop giving advice like you're a guru, I know you mean well but you haven't even posted a picture to back your claims, the last picture I saw of you was on boatloads of drugs and gh and you were 17% bf with 15 inch arms


 Tbh man here i never posted a picture of mine, and never will, since majority of people on forums are just like you, people with no knowledge or body.

What about your pictures? Ot your advices? If i can help and i know and argument i help.

Why people here accepts information from @ghost.recon or @El Chapo without even asking a photos of them?

Because the have a lot of knowledge!! And if they have just a regular beach body, i don't care, their advice are on point and priceless.

Check your useless attitude man . :whistling:


----------



## SlinMeister

Whoremoan1 said:


> yeh i got dht tested but in lcms, wondering if this is an accurate reading of my dht levels


 Up to 25k the reading is accurate! Usually they use LCMS for that exam. Just checked my lab results! :thumb


----------



## Ljb

Hi @El Chapo @ghost.recon have been told you are the best to ask, so I'm posting my thread here!

So a bit of history here. I've used tren on and off for years with no issue on cycle, in fact I never had any sides other than sweats and the occasional cough from injection.

Last year, I posted on here - probably abouty 6 weeks into a Tren cycle at 100mg EOD with prop EOD, I started to get a distended stomach. It was so bloated that I'd look 9 months pregnant, have acid reflux and every time I ate instantly I'd feel a expanding/bloating sensation. I'm still to this day not sure what caused it. It left my abdominal area permanently distended. I originally thought it was a chronic flare up that would slowly go. Even at the end of December it was still distended, but I wasn't experiencing the reflux/bloating feeling like I did on tren.

CT, Ultrasound, bloods, food allergies all came back fine (liver enzymes came back high originally as I was on orals at the time). I've come to terms with permanently having some distension and my specialist came to the agreement I may have caused IBS from this now, but it's been manageable through a cleaner diet and the use of foods like kefir/greens that keep the gut in good health.

I've been dieting for summer now for 6 weeks using NPP/Test P and haven't noticed half the result's I'd get from tren, so I thought I'd try a low dose. I started Friday using 50mg tren ace, EOD. I'm literally 3 shots in and suddenly stomach problems have started.

- Acid reflux (manageable)

- Food doesn't seem to digest, it just sits in my gut all day. By the end of the day I look pregnant and last night I was actually sick. Loss of appetite because my stomach is so full. There must be a way to manage this?

- Distension more than normal (which I assume is down to the food sitting in stomach for hours).

There must be a way to manage this? Anyone else had experiences where there stomach just isn't emptying properly?

People say that tren causes excess acid build up - but this can't be right because more acid would mean the food is digested faster...surely?!

I'm going to reduce tren to 25mg on next shot to see if this still continues, if not discontinue again. For everyone saying this isn't the tren after 3 shots...it is. It's the only variable I've had over the last week, and I haven't had sweats at night in ages until last couple of days.


----------



## leechild4

Hi guys. Turned 40 this year and still training hard. In you opinion what would be a good stack to maintain general health and remain as young at heart as you can. I was thinking trt with a dose of GH. But wondered if you had other options for the GH part such as a sarm?


----------



## swole troll

I know that you're a fan of intermittent fasting and since the last time I did a long and eventually very low calorie cut was in 2016 I havnt needed to utilize it since but whats your thoughts on someone training early around 0800-0900 with weights then cardio post wo and fasting until say 1400 and eating until 2200

Is this too much time without food post weights and cardio?

Reason being is in the past I was able to get to sleep much earlier and I'm one of those people that can fast from wake for a good few hours but not fast for hours pre bed and go to bed on an empty stomach.

Part of me thinks energy balance, calories in calories out equals the same deficit irrelevant of when it's consumed but then another part of me can't help but worry about training and doing cardio fasted and then still remaining fasted for another 2-4 hours


----------



## ElChapo

Ljb said:


> Hi @El Chapo @ghost.recon have been told you are the best to ask, so I'm posting my thread here!
> 
> So a bit of history here. I've used tren on and off for years with no issue on cycle, in fact I never had any sides other than sweats and the occasional cough from injection.
> 
> Last year, I posted on here - probably abouty 6 weeks into a Tren cycle at 100mg EOD with prop EOD, I started to get a distended stomach. It was so bloated that I'd look 9 months pregnant, have acid reflux and every time I ate instantly I'd feel a expanding/bloating sensation. I'm still to this day not sure what caused it. It left my abdominal area permanently distended. I originally thought it was a chronic flare up that would slowly go. Even at the end of December it was still distended, but I wasn't experiencing the reflux/bloating feeling like I did on tren.
> 
> CT, Ultrasound, bloods, food allergies all came back fine (liver enzymes came back high originally as I was on orals at the time). I've come to terms with permanently having some distension and my specialist came to the agreement I may have caused IBS from this now, but it's been manageable through a cleaner diet and the use of foods like kefir/greens that keep the gut in good health.
> 
> I've been dieting for summer now for 6 weeks using NPP/Test P and haven't noticed half the result's I'd get from tren, so I thought I'd try a low dose. I started Friday using 50mg tren ace, EOD. I'm literally 3 shots in and suddenly stomach problems have started.
> 
> - Acid reflux (manageable)
> 
> - Food doesn't seem to digest, it just sits in my gut all day. By the end of the day I look pregnant and last night I was actually sick. Loss of appetite because my stomach is so full. There must be a way to manage this?
> 
> - Distension more than normal (which I assume is down to the food sitting in stomach for hours).
> 
> There must be a way to manage this? Anyone else had experiences where there stomach just isn't emptying properly?
> 
> People say that tren causes excess acid build up - but this can't be right because more acid would mean the food is digested faster...surely?!
> 
> I'm going to reduce tren to 25mg on next shot to see if this still continues, if not discontinue again. For everyone saying this isn't the tren after 3 shots...it is. It's the only variable I've had over the last week, and I haven't had sweats at night in ages until last couple of days.


 No, some people respond badly to tren. Stop taking it, replace with winstrol or superdrol. I don't take it anymore due to gyno flare ups. A lot of pros keep the dose super low due to the digestive issues you just mentioned. Don't force tren on your body, i recommend you stop using it.

If you are under 10% and still have distention of the stomach, work on abdominal vacuum exercises which will strengthen the transverse abdominus and keep your midsection much tighter.


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> Hi guys. Turned 40 this year and still training hard. In you opinion what would be a good stack to maintain general health and remain as young at heart as you can. I was thinking trt with a dose of GH. But wondered if you had other options for the GH part such as a sarm?


 It would really depend on your physique goals. The question needs to be more specific, what is your ideal physique? How close to it are you?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> I know that you're a fan of intermittent fasting and since the last time I did a long and eventually very low calorie cut was in 2016 I havnt needed to utilize it since but whats your thoughts on someone training early around 0800-0900 with weights then cardio post wo and fasting until say 1400 and eating until 2200
> 
> Is this too much time without food post weights and cardio?
> 
> Reason being is in the past I was able to get to sleep much earlier and I'm one of those people that can fast from wake for a good few hours but not fast for hours pre bed and go to bed on an empty stomach.
> 
> Part of me thinks energy balance, calories in calories out equals the same deficit irrelevant of when it's consumed but then another part of me can't help but worry about training and doing cardio fasted and then still remaining fasted for another 2-4 hours


 You can do it, just take some EAA or BCAA before and after training and you will 100% fine.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Yes winstrol is fantastic! Tried it after seeing you reccomend it several times and it really is great. Don't wanna come off the stuff lol strength shoots right up but the best thing about it for me is that tight dry grainy look. Feel good on it too.
> 
> Will have to try superdrol next. Like winny is it best ran lower bf or can it be used higher bf towards end of a bulk?


 Think i missed this question.

Winstrol and sdrol are amazing for bulking and cutting. They will dry you out, but will also build a lot of strength and lean tissue.


----------



## zariph

Hey mate, not sure if you missed this or if you are juist being busy atm!



> 1.Kevin Levrone and Ronnie coleman were both skinny teenagers.
> 
> Most people don't respond well to natural training because they don't know how to train or eat enough food but there is a small percentage of the population that does not respond as well to training as the average person. This has been seen in studies where they track calories/training and a small % responded poorly.
> 
> 2.Mk677 is a little interesting, i wouldn't bet on it for amazing gains or anything, but for anti-aging and maybe pushing gains a little bit further, there might be some use.
> 
> 3. 100% bullshit, pros are on AAS year round. If this were true, they wouldn't be huge and would stop growing. You don't have to switch compounds either. What pushes new muscle growth is training stimulus and sufficient calories to create new muscle tissue with sufficient rest for recovery. AAS and PEDs help the body exceed it's genetic limit, but the fundamentals still apply.


 Thank you! Regarding questions 1 - Some people do react better to AAS tho than others - or is it also about finding witch compounds work best for you, as some1 might grow great on high test low deca vice versa?

It probably depends on a lot of things, but how would you generally setup up first, second and third steroid cycle for an individual looking to gain size?

In your opinion, how would the optimal %distribution of macros be when cycling AAS?


----------



## Panda11

@ElChapo Lately I'm having trouble staying asleep. Mostly I fall asleep quite easily but after half an hour I wake up and can't get back to sleep. As a result I'm starting to get nervous and agitated, having slight panic attacks of a sort. I only have a few hours of sleep per night. During the day I'm feeling restless and mentally just not well.

I'm blasting:

1000 Test E EW

700 Tren E EW

700 NPP EW

100 Winstrol ED

1mg Adex EW

I can handle Tren quite well but I've noticed after running it for a longer period it can alter my mood. Thinking it might be the tren I've dropped it 6 days ago. When should I expect improvement if it is the tren? Could the winstrol be causing it as well? What should be my steps of action to get on top of this problem?

Could you suggest me any supplements to deal with this problem for the time being? Would adding masteron be beneficial?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## arbffgadm100

Panda11 said:


> @ElChapo Lately I'm having trouble staying asleep. Mostly I fall asleep quite easily but after half an hour I wake up and can't get back to sleep. As a result I'm starting to get nervous and agitated, having slight panic attacks of a sort. I only have a few hours of sleep per night. During the day I'm feeling restless and mentally just not well.
> 
> I'm blasting:
> 
> 1000 Test E EW
> 
> 700 Tren E EW
> 
> 700 NPP EW
> 
> 100 Winstrol ED
> 
> 1mg Adex EW
> 
> I can handle Tren quite well but I've noticed after running it for a longer period it can alter my mood. Thinking it might be the tren I've dropped it 6 days ago. When should I expect improvement if it is the tren? Could the winstrol be causing it as well? What should be my steps of action to get on top of this problem?
> 
> Could you suggest me any supplements to deal with this problem for the time being? Would adding masteron be beneficial?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 700mg of tren enan will take just as long as 700mg of test enan would to clear. So , a while then


----------



## pma111

Whats your view on this statement

"For people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time. "

Does that mean the 0.8g protein per lb of lean body mass is not always as essential as people think to build muscle if somebody adds in BCAA supplement? If so what dose of BCAA would cover the lower protein intake and not hamper results or balance it out.

Is it those 3 aminos specifically also found in BCAA that you get in food sources of protein that work the magic in muscle growth, or is there more too it (protein) than that regarding muscle growth.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> EQ has been shown to not increase RBC more than testosterone itself. Maybe it gives increased endurance by another mechanism though but i've seen no evidence.
> 
> DHB is like mast/winstrol. It has DHT/drying effects, not a lot of anecdotes on it yet. I would have it in a cycle in place of masteron or primo.
> 
> I've seen anecdotes that Melodonium is very good for endurance training and competition. You also want your HCT on the higher side in the lower/mid 50s for optimal endurance. Tour de france only lets you have it around 50% i believe. High enough testosterone dose will pump up RBC/HCT, many get high levels on only HRT doses but that's genetic.
> 
> AAS have very limited potential for endurance enhancement, as you've noticed, that fatigue/pump feeling will really cook your endurance and stamina levels if not kept in check. The AAS can increase recovery and training/pain tolerance (maybe sprinting speed) but that's about it.


 Am going to try meldonium. Thanks

Am going to come off to drop some weight mainly.

Last 4-6wks just on 125mg/wk test p. Been on low dose cycles and TRT 10-12mths

Am 44yrs old

After 1week, am better cardio and endurance wise on bike!!!

1 What mechanism is holding cardio/endurance back whilst on, even TRT dosages?

2 what PCT would you do?

3 is the ideal for a cyclist then, train on AAS...come off for best performance?

4 thoughts on cardarine and ostarine as a whole?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey mate, not sure if you missed this or if you are juist being busy atm!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Kevin Levrone and Ronnie coleman were both skinny teenagers.
> 
> Most people don't respond well to natural training because they don't know how to train or eat enough food but there is a small percentage of the population that does not respond as well to training as the average person. This has been seen in studies where they track calories/training and a small % responded poorly.
> 
> 2.Mk677 is a little interesting, i wouldn't bet on it for amazing gains or anything, but for anti-aging and maybe pushing gains a little bit further, there might be some use.
> 
> 3. 100% bullshit, pros are on AAS year round. If this were true, they wouldn't be huge and would stop growing. You don't have to switch compounds either. What pushes new muscle growth is training stimulus and sufficient calories to create new muscle tissue with sufficient rest for recovery. AAS and PEDs help the body exceed it's genetic limit, but the fundamentals still apply.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Regarding questions 1 - Some people do react better to AAS tho than others - or is it also about finding witch compounds work best for you, as some1 might grow great on high test low deca vice versa?
> 
> It probably depends on a lot of things, but how would you generally setup up first, second and third steroid cycle for an individual looking to gain size?
> 
> In your opinion, how would the optimal %distribution of macros be when cycling AAS?
Click to expand...

 Both, some people have better genetic response to all AAS and some people respond better to specific AAS. I know people who blow on AAS with garbage training/diet and others who look like they don't lift under those conditions. Some guys love tren and respond great, others get subpar results.

That's an extremely broad question so i'll answer with some very general guidelines. I strongly recommend that one have a solid foundation of training and diet without AAS before taking any AAS, preferably a strong beginner strength base because this forces you to eat right and train right to achieve results (example: bench,squat, deadlift 2/3/4 plates for reps). The response to AAS will be much stronger and maintainable if the trainee has a solid foundation prior to using them.

I recommend 300-600 mg test P for first cycle, 2nd cycle same thing but adding 50 mg winstrol or 20 mg superdrol daily, focusing on increase reps and weight on every single exercise while eating a caloric surplus of 300-500 calories daily. By the 3rd cycle it's going to come down to general goals in terms of physique/strength/etc. Again it's a very broad question. How much size is the person looking for, training history, things like that are taken into account.

For Macros, same as natty. Minimum protein requirement (0.8 grams per lbs of lean body mass for bulking. 1-1.5 gram per lbs lean body mass for cutting). The rest should be moderate-high carb, lower fat to minimize fat accumulation in a caloric surplus. Carbs are the most important macro, they will supply most of the energy to build new muscle and train hard. In a cut, they will keep glycogen levels high, stop muscles from getting flat, energy/mood/libido at their highest thanks to upregulation of thyroid,testosterone and leptin.


----------



## ElChapo

Panda11 said:


> @ElChapo Lately I'm having trouble staying asleep. Mostly I fall asleep quite easily but after half an hour I wake up and can't get back to sleep. As a result I'm starting to get nervous and agitated, having slight panic attacks of a sort. I only have a few hours of sleep per night. During the day I'm feeling restless and mentally just not well.
> 
> I'm blasting:
> 
> 1000 Test E EW
> 
> 700 Tren E EW
> 
> 700 NPP EW
> 
> 100 Winstrol ED
> 
> 1mg Adex EW
> 
> I can handle Tren quite well but I've noticed after running it for a longer period it can alter my mood. Thinking it might be the tren I've dropped it 6 days ago. When should I expect improvement if it is the tren? Could the winstrol be causing it as well? What should be my steps of action to get on top of this problem?
> 
> Could you suggest me any supplements to deal with this problem for the time being? Would adding masteron be beneficial?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 Insomnia is one of the most commen side effects of trenbolone and it can also be caused by high doses of other AAS. Since it's tren E you should feel better in 2-4 weeks depending on how quickly your body metabolizes the tren.

Supplements to deal with insomnia or mood issues? Some people feel better on masteron but honestly, you just gotta wait for it to run it's course.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Whats your view on this statement
> 
> "For people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time. "
> 
> Does that mean the 0.8g protein per lb of lean body mass is not always as essential as people think to build muscle if somebody adds in BCAA supplement? If so what dose of BCAA would cover the lower protein intake and not hamper results or balance it out.
> 
> Is it those 3 aminos specifically also found in BCAA that you get in food sources of protein that work the magic in muscle growth, or is there more too it (protein) than that regarding muscle growth.


 Yes, if you take BCAA , your protein requirement goes down. +15 grams of BCAA will be equivalent to over 60 grams of protein or more.

You technically need more than just the Leucine, isoleucine, valine (bcaa) for grow muscle, those three are just important, especially leucine.

Don't overthink this stuff, just make sure you get enough protein, lift to get stronger, rest and grow.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Am going to try meldonium. Thanks
> 
> Am going to come off to drop some weight mainly.
> 
> Last 4-6wks just on 125mg/wk test p. Been on low dose cycles and TRT 10-12mths
> 
> Am 44yrs old
> 
> After 1week, am better cardio and endurance wise on bike!!!
> 
> 1 What mechanism is holding cardio/endurance back whilst on, even TRT dosages?
> 
> 2 what PCT would you do?
> 
> 3 is the ideal for a cyclist then, train on AAS...come off for best performance?
> 
> 4 thoughts on cardarine and ostarine as a whole?
> 
> Thanks


 The biggest mechanism i've seen from the research is the way AAS affects skeletal muscle energy metabolism. Muscles get more efficient at producing force at the cost of using up more oxygen/resources, which negatively affects endurance. The other mechanism is thickening of the blood (which can help a well trained athlete due to higher HCT), and the increased lactic acid/metabolic byproduct build up.

For PCT:

If you care about recovering endogenous testosterone production, you should run HCG (1,500 IU) or HMG (150 IU) through your whole blast/cruise. When you come off, run clomiphene at 100 mg for 6-12 weeks. Re-test total testosterone in 6-8 weeks to see if recovery was successful.

Yeah, generally it's not my area of expertise, but you can use androgens to build up speed and create a compensation effect whereby you build endurance and when you come off, it goes up even further. That's just a theory from my own experience using AAS and gauging the effects on my stamina/endurance.

Not into the SARMs, AAS do everything we need them to, reliable, easy to find, etc. I think they might have potential but i'd like to see more anecdotes/research in the coming years.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> The biggest mechanism i've seen from the research is the way AAS affects skeletal muscle energy metabolism. Muscles get more efficient at producing force at the cost of using up more oxygen/resources, which negatively affects endurance. The other mechanism is thickening of the blood (which can help a well trained athlete due to higher HCT), and the increased lactic acid/metabolic byproduct build up.
> 
> For PCT:
> 
> If you care about recovering endogenous testosterone production, you should run HCG (1,500 IU) or HMG (150 IU) through your whole blast/cruise. When you come off, run clomiphene at 100 mg for 6-12 weeks. Re-test total testosterone in 6-8 weeks to see if recovery was successful.
> 
> Yeah, generally it's not my area of expertise, but you can use androgens to build up speed and create a compensation effect whereby you build endurance and when you come off, it goes up even further. That's just a theory from my own experience using AAS and gauging the effects on my stamina/endurance.
> 
> Not into the SARMs, AAS do everything we need them to, reliable, easy to find, etc. I think they might have potential but i'd like to see more anecdotes/research in the coming years.


 I was happy to self administer TRT to be honest....125mg/wk test P to avoid clomid/nolva and on/off. Thats w3hat i was planning. Am 44 had kids etc. However, intention apart from looking and feeling better is to be better on bike.

Ive been running HCG 2x500IU / week throughout last 10-12mths.

I agree with your theory, see in reality myself. No doubt top end power/sprint etc is increased. But holding a long sustained power at a threshold power/heart rate delivers less.

I realised and knew from reading this was likely. So ive been doing very moderate blasts (am talking less than 500mg total of all compounds 10-16wks), then TRT. I could feel i was better endurance on TRT than blasts, but didn't expect any improvement when i stopped test completely.

Ive been off test P TRT 2weeks now....can feel water/glycogen dropping off. Lost 2kg in 2 weeks, without dieting.

So even with TRT of 125-150mg/week its having some negative affect in my mind, I am scientific and aware this may just be in my head and actually just an improvement from the hours of training.

Off completely vs TRT? do you imagine any negative affect of endurance?


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> Yes, if you take BCAA , your protein requirement goes down. +15 grams of BCAA will be equivalent to over 60 grams of protein or more.
> 
> You technically need more than just the Leucine, isoleucine, valine (bcaa) for grow muscle, those three are just important, especially leucine.
> 
> Don't overthink this stuff, just make sure you get enough protein, lift to get stronger, rest and grow.


 Can you please shed more light on how 15gms BCAA is equivalent to 60gms protein?.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@El Chapo with curcumin with black pepper I was recommended 2 capsules in the morning and 2 in the evening, for its potent antiflammatory effect.

Would you say the same applies for curcumin meriva or is one capsule morning+evening sufficient?


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> I was happy to self administer TRT to be honest....125mg/wk test P to avoid clomid/nolva and on/off. Thats w3hat i was planning. Am 44 had kids etc. However, intention apart from looking and feeling better is to be better on bike.
> 
> Ive been running HCG 2x500IU / week throughout last 10-12mths.
> 
> I agree with your theory, see in reality myself. No doubt top end power/sprint etc is increased. But holding a long sustained power at a threshold power/heart rate delivers less.
> 
> I realised and knew from reading this was likely. So ive been doing very moderate blasts (am talking less than 500mg total of all compounds 10-16wks), then TRT. I could feel i was better endurance on TRT than blasts, but didn't expect any improvement when i stopped test completely.
> 
> Ive been off test P TRT 2weeks now....can feel water/glycogen dropping off. Lost 2kg in 2 weeks, without dieting.
> 
> So even with TRT of 125-150mg/week its having some negative affect in my mind, I am scientific and aware this may just be in my head and actually just an improvement from the hours of training.
> 
> Off completely vs TRT? do you imagine any negative affect of endurance?


 If testosterone drops below optimal or physiological levels, your exercise tolerance and ability to push through physical challenge may become impaired. Testosterone increases pain tolerance and work output at optimal levels vs deficiency. There's also the energy factor, low testosterone = low energy/fatigue for many people.

Low end HRT is probably the optimal dose for an endurance runner as chronic endurance training will usually drop endogenous testosterone levels which can impair recovery and the other things i mentioned above.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Can you please shed more light on how 15gms BCAA is equivalent to 60gms protein?.


 It's going to have an equivalent effect, 1 scoop of protein will contain about 5 grams of BCAA roughly. You need more than just BCAA to build muscle (other aminos/extra energy through calories) but BCAA will lower the protein requirement. This has been proven in some studies.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @El Chapo with curcumin with black pepper I was recommended 2 capsules in the morning and 2 in the evening, for its potent antiflammatory effect.
> 
> Would you say the same applies for curcumin meriva or is one capsule morning+evening sufficient?


 1-2 capsules for meriva with food. Once daily or split.


----------



## DORIAN

Hi mate, if a person is coming back in to full training from a long lay off

would it be best to regain muscle lost through natural muscle memory training, then cycle?

or jump straight on cycle? Cheers bud


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hi mate, if a person is coming back in to full training from a long lay off
> 
> would it be best to regain muscle lost through natural muscle memory training, then cycle?
> 
> or jump straight on cycle? Cheers bud


 Depends on a few things, are you trying to get back to enhanced level of muscularity or within natural limits? Are you on HRT?

I would lean to cycle so you get your gains faster but would help with more info.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Depends on a few things, are you trying to get back to enhanced level of muscularity or within natural limits? Are you on HRT?
> 
> I would lean to cycle so you get your gains faster but would help with more info.


 Would you say that a heavier cycle for twelve weeks with the same time cruising on trt as a "break" is more productive than taking less for longer? (for me it would be 750mg test, 400mg npp, 100mg winny for the blast so to speak)

I'm 38 so considering higher amounts and adding gh to the above 12 on 12 off to reach my goals.

Liver and kidney support is on point, recently had an echo scan due to a previous scare and its all good, blood fine etc.

Cheers


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo @ghost.recon

Morning chaps. I have some TM 125 tablets of DNP. About 18 months old iirc. Have 16 of them left.

1. Would the strength have diminished within this time? If so, how much?

2. Any difference in determined outcome (cardio/diet on point) between 125 daily for 16 days or 250 for 8 days?

I don't expect any problematic sides from either amount as have run at 375 daily for2 weeks. These are considerably weaker than the POW/KABAMM capsules from 2016

Thank you, fellas.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Would you say that a heavier cycle for twelve weeks with the same time cruising on trt as a "break" is more productive than taking less for longer? (for me it would be 750mg test, 400mg npp, 100mg winny for the blast so to speak)
> 
> I'm 38 so considering higher amounts and adding gh to the above 12 on 12 off to reach my goals.
> 
> Liver and kidney support is on point, recently had an echo scan due to a previous scare and its all good, blood fine etc.
> 
> Cheers


 Yes, from a biochemical standpoint but also psychological. 12-16 week burst of hard training and dieting followed by a break will have better results than very long/drawn out periods.

As you get older, it's a better idea to start weaning off the heavy and long cycles and focus more on maintaining the muscle and strength you have built.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> @ElChapo @ghost.recon
> 
> Morning chaps. I have some TM 125 tablets of DNP. About 18 months old iirc. Have 16 of them left.
> 
> 1. Would the strength have diminished within this time? If so, how much?
> 
> 2. Any difference in determined outcome (cardio/diet on point) between 125 daily for 16 days or 250 for 8 days?
> 
> I don't expect any problematic sides from either amount as have run at 375 daily for2 weeks. These are considerably weaker than the POW/KABAMM capsules from 2016
> 
> Thank you, fellas.


 1. Should still be 100% if stored in a cool/dark/dry place.

2. 250 mg is the optimal dose for potency/side effects. 125 will not be as effective. I would run 250 mg, especially since you noted that potency might be in question.


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> 1. Should still be 100% if stored in a cool/dark/dry place.
> 
> 2. 250 mg is the optimal dose for potency/side effects. 125 will not be as effective. I would run 250 mg, especially since you noted that potency might be in question.


 Thank you, mate :thumbup1:


----------



## zariph

Hello

Is arrythmia normal or something to worry about when on test deca cycle?

What to do about it and whats the cause you think?


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> Depends on a few things, are you trying to get back to enhanced level of muscularity or within natural limits? Are you on HRT?
> 
> I would lean to cycle so you get your gains faster but would help with more info.


 No HRT mate, was thinking get a little natural back, 12 weeks training or so, then a 8/10 week test cycle, wasn't sure if jumping straight back in was the better option, cheers mate


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hi mate,

Another two question for you, I see a lot of posts about hgh and how people get bigger and leaner? I just don't believe this is true, lets put the example below:-

1. 1g test, 1g EQ, 4iu gh, 30iu lantus a combination of these hormones, do these kind of stacks really give muscle gains with minimal fat gains or would the gh need to be higher? would your metabolism be faster due to the amount of hormones in your system? would you still gain fat on this cycle?

2. My second question is about insulin, does eating fat during insulin cause it to be stored as fat? I've heard from a few people but this has been debunked but would like your opinion on it as well as it's always better to have more than one opinion.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

hi mate

thinking of dropping to 100/100mg test e/Tren E PW and running for the next few months.

Did before and still made solid progress, looked good with literally no sides (no need for AI or anything) - just one pin a week and go.

Thoughts on this 100/100 test/tren approach? I'd like to push dosages as low as poss for health reasons etc. I get 0 sides or problems with tren up to 400mg pw, so get on well with it

Second question is, comparatively to above, would I be better off just running 250mg test a week? Similar overall mg - would it be substantially better health wise? (I would look worse, no doubt).


----------



## Jaydan

Hiya,

I inject 150 mg test c/wk on mondays. I take adex 0,25 mg ED to keep estro under control (pretty e sensitive) however 2-3 days after my injection i always get high E sides (hot flashes, loss of erection). Is this because my test levels peak 2-3 days after injection and therefore there is more estrogen conversion ? -> 0,25mg is not enough, when i take 0,5mg i feel fine again the day after.


----------



## Mickstar

Hi mate I've been running 500mg test e , second cycle I'm 6 weeks in and have gained average a pound a week on a slight surplus. Recently my weight has just started dropping down on these calories I'm still improving in the gym and looking better I've upped my calories and weight is still dropping , would you keep upping calories until weight moves up or just stick on calories until performance drops. Appearance wise bodyfat looks like it's dropping whilst getting stronger but weight is dropping. Cheers mate


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello
> 
> Is arrythmia normal or something to worry about when on test deca cycle?
> 
> What to do about it and whats the cause you think?


 It can be temporary, how is your BP and heart rate? How much test and deca?


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> No HRT mate, was thinking get a little natural back, 12 weeks training or so, then a 8/10 week test cycle, wasn't sure if jumping straight back in was the better option, cheers mate


 I would jump straight in.

I would also test your natural testosterone levels right now to see where you are at. This way you know if you may need HRT and/or gauge how well you recover post-cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate,
> 
> Another two question for you, I see a lot of posts about hgh and how people get bigger and leaner? I just don't believe this is true, lets put the example below:-
> 
> 1. 1g test, 1g EQ, 4iu gh, 30iu lantus a combination of these hormones, do these kind of stacks really give muscle gains with minimal fat gains or would the gh need to be higher? would your metabolism be faster due to the amount of hormones in your system? would you still gain fat on this cycle?
> 
> 2. My second question is about insulin, does eating fat during insulin cause it to be stored as fat? I've heard from a few people but this has been debunked but would like your opinion on it as well as it's always better to have more than one opinion.


 There's something called the "p ratio" this is basically how much of excess calories get converted into lean tissue vs fat. Androgens and growth hormone can increase the P ratio to an extent. You can still gain fat, but it's less likely the higher your p ratio is. There is no guarantee you will not gain fat, it's just less likely.

Insulin/fat storage; Not in a deficit or maintenance, so it's irrelevant. In a surplus, sure, but this happens with or without insulin. Insulin helps shuttle energy into fat AND muscle cells.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hi mate
> 
> thinking of dropping to 100/100mg test e/Tren E PW and running for the next few months.
> 
> Did before and still made solid progress, looked good with literally no sides (no need for AI or anything) - just one pin a week and go.
> 
> Thoughts on this 100/100 test/tren approach? I'd like to push dosages as low as poss for health reasons etc. I get 0 sides or problems with tren up to 400mg pw, so get on well with it
> 
> Second question is, comparatively to above, would I be better off just running 250mg test a week? Similar overall mg - would it be substantially better health wise? (I would look worse, no doubt).


 What's the goal? Cruise? Mini-cycle?

It depends on how long you are running this for. If it's year round, definitely testosterone only. Even low dose tren will rip your HDL down very low. If it's a blast, then go ahead with the tren.

Trust me on this, if you want to look good on testosterone, always go with propionate. It's pure broscience and 100% true, propionate leads to less water retention in the face and body. It's a fairly dry compound, especially at 300 mg and less.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaydan said:


> Hiya,
> 
> I inject 150 mg test c/wk on mondays. I take adex 0,25 mg ED to keep estro under control (pretty e sensitive) however 2-3 days after my injection i always get high E sides (hot flashes, loss of erection). Is this because my test levels peak 2-3 days after injection and therefore there is more estrogen conversion ? -> 0,25mg is not enough, when i take 0,5mg i feel fine again the day after.


 Do you have access to blood work? Going by symptoms is a losing game, high e2 and low e2 have overlapping symptoms. You should get a blood test for E2 and see where you are at.

Is your AI pharma grade or UGL?


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi mate I've been running 500mg test e , second cycle I'm 6 weeks in and have gained average a pound a week on a slight surplus. Recently my weight has just started dropping down on these calories I'm still improving in the gym and looking better I've upped my calories and weight is still dropping , would you keep upping calories until weight moves up or just stick on calories until performance drops. Appearance wise bodyfat looks like it's dropping whilst getting stronger but weight is dropping. Cheers mate


 It depends on your goals, if you want more of a recomp, don't change your calories, especially if performance is still increasing.

If strength/mass is your priority, up calories by 200 daily until you start gaining weight. Preferably no more than 1/2-1 lbs per week.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It can be temporary, how is your BP and heart rate? How much test and deca?


 BP is in range - 600mg test 500mg deca? Though of adding anadrol or SD but not quite sure after I found out this


----------



## Mylittlepony

I have a question regarding rest periods for bodybuilding.

I like to approach sets fully recovered from the set before. I see lot of people rushing around, out of breath, but I don't often see high intensity sets. A bodybuilders goal is building muscle, not aerobic capacity. Whats your opinion on long rest periods for bodybuilding?

Btw I would say this is the best info thread I have ever seen. Great work el chapo and ghost recon.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> What's the goal? Cruise? Mini-cycle?
> 
> It depends on how long you are running this for. If it's year round, definitely testosterone only. Even low dose tren will rip your HDL down very low. If it's a blast, then go ahead with the tren.
> 
> Trust me on this, if you want to look good on testosterone, always go with propionate. It's pure broscience and 100% true, propionate leads to less water retention in the face and body. It's a fairly dry compound, especially at 300 mg and less.


 Basically a long mini/low dose blast. I never go above 300-400mg anyway.

Usually run 125mg test 6 months then blast 125mg test and another compound (say 300mg tren E) for 6 months (April-Sep...summer basically).

noted re ester etc.

If it's much much healthier to run 250mg test year around then 6 months of even 100-150mg tren then so be it.

cheers


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> Trust me on this, if you want to look good on testosterone, always go with propionate. It's pure broscience and 100% true, propionate leads to less water retention in the face and body. It's a fairly dry compound, especially at 300 mg and less.


 You may have answered the question by saying it's bro science but true but unless I've missed something why do you think this is.

Thanks


----------



## Mickstar

ElChapo said:


> It depends on your goals, if you want more of a recomp, don't change your calories, especially if performance is still increasing.
> 
> If strength/mass is your priority, up calories by 200 daily until you start gaining weight. Preferably no more than 1/2-1 lbs per week.


 Thanks for the reply mate when I started this cycle I was looking to lean bulk and put size on and minimize fat gain. I have put on some size on in certain areas of my body but I'm liking that I'm leaning out and getting stronger, when recomping is it still possible to add muscle tissue.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

Did bloods and everything was okeish

CPK 1900ish very high, doctor said due to high intensity workouts

C reactive protein very very high, my doctor knows what I do and asked me if I am on ugl gear.... Ofc I am, had 12w of cut with some gear with Guaiacol in it. Doctor jumped on the chair and said to me to throw away that s**t and jump on 1g Micronized curcumine Ed to lower body inflammation..

Possible that gaiacol can inflame so much our body? I am worried...

CPR is the only value I have out of levels, everything else is in perfect range.

Second question:

Can we say that 500 TestE is like injecting 400-450 TestP? Is there a correlation from TestE to TestP?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> BP is in range - 600mg test 500mg deca? Though of adding anadrol or SD but not quite sure after I found out this


 It can be temporary, how did you find out about it?


----------



## ElChapo

Mylittlepony said:


> I have a question regarding rest periods for bodybuilding.
> 
> I like to approach sets fully recovered from the set before. I see lot of people rushing around, out of breath, but I don't often see high intensity sets. A bodybuilders goal is building muscle, not aerobic capacity. Whats your opinion on long rest periods for bodybuilding?
> 
> Btw I would say this is the best info thread I have ever seen. Great work el chapo and ghost recon.


 It depends on the rep range. For heavier compound movements in the 3-10 rep range, 5 minutes is ideal, with a minimum of 3 minutes ( proven by research & my own experience as well ).

For isolation movements at higher rep ranges (curls, etc @ +12 reps) you can do much shorter rest periods which can actually be beneficial. This is where drop sets and shorter rest periods can work. One minute tends to be plenty here.

Thank you for the compliments, i am always happy to share knowledge and experience. You guys have been great and i love the questions.

Ideally, a bodybuilder will use both heavy compound movements with longer rest periods AND lighter/isolation/higher reps to get the best of both worlds. Most legendary bodybuilders have used this approach ( Arnold, Franco, Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, etc). That's not say that there arent people who haven't built impressive physiques mostly with one or the other, but ideal approach is focus on both strength building compounds and higher rep isolation.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Basically a long mini/low dose blast. I never go above 300-400mg anyway.
> 
> Usually run 125mg test 6 months then blast 125mg test and another compound (say 300mg tren E) for 6 months (April-Sep...summer basically).
> 
> noted re ester etc.
> 
> If it's much much healthier to run 250mg test year around then 6 months of even 100-150mg tren then so be it.
> 
> cheers


 I've said this before, but the most ideal approach for health and aesthetics is to build your ideal physique and then maintain on low dose/cruise level of testosterone.

You would be better off blasting grams for a few years, building that physique, then maintaining indefinitely on 300 mg test per year while controlling BP, E2, HCT, etc. Than to run tren for decades on and off. 6 months of tren for years is not ideal. For most of the time, your cholesterol levels are going to be out of whack.

You're better off doing real blast/cruise a couple of months out of the year and then maintaining.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> You may have answered the question by saying it's bro science but true but unless I've missed something why do you think this is.
> 
> Thanks


 I really don't know, it's a real mystery. It's just something i've observed in myself and others. I also find short ester to be more potent without even taking ester weight into consideration.

Test prop improves well-being, energy, etc more than test E for me regardless of dosage.


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Thanks for the reply mate when I started this cycle I was looking to lean bulk and put size on and minimize fat gain. I have put on some size on in certain areas of my body but I'm liking that I'm leaning out and getting stronger, when recomping is it still possible to add muscle tissue.


 Then i wouldn't change anything. If strength plateaus, consider adding 200 calories


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It can be temporary, how did you find out about it?


 Measuring it from time to time, and last time it showed up - but you think I should wait adding anadrol or SD etc untill its normal?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Did bloods and everything was okeish
> 
> CPK 1900ish very high, doctor said due to high intensity workouts
> 
> C reactive protein very very high, my doctor knows what I do and asked me if I am on ugl gear.... Ofc I am, had 12w of cut with some gear with Guaiacol in it. Doctor jumped on the chair and said to me to throw away that s**t and jump on 1g Micronized curcumine Ed to lower body inflammation..
> 
> Possible that gaiacol can inflame so much our body? I am worried...
> 
> CPR is the only value I have out of levels, everything else is in perfect range.
> 
> Second question:
> 
> Can we say that 500 TestE is like injecting 400-450 TestP? Is there a correlation from TestE to TestP?


 How high is the CRP, what's the range for your labs? Not sure about the guiacol, plenty of people have used it without elevated CRP. It can be autoimmune disease and allergies.

All you can really do besides testing for auto immune disease/allergies is to try dropping the guiacol oils and see if it drops.

Also:

"200mg of MERIVA, taken at 200mg daily, was able to reduce symptoms of osteoarthritis and joint pain as assessed by the WOMAC rating scale and improve physical performance.

C-Reactive Protein decreased only in the group with higher CRP at baseline, although to a very large degree (168 to 11.3mg/L)"


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Did bloods and everything was okeish
> 
> CPK 1900ish very high, doctor said due to high intensity workouts
> 
> C reactive protein very very high, my doctor knows what I do and asked me if I am on ugl gear.... Ofc I am, had 12w of cut with some gear with Guaiacol in it. Doctor jumped on the chair and said to me to throw away that s**t and jump on 1g Micronized curcumine Ed to lower body inflammation..
> 
> Possible that gaiacol can inflame so much our body? I am worried...
> 
> CPR is the only value I have out of levels, everything else is in perfect range.
> 
> Second question:
> 
> Can we say that 500 TestE is like injecting 400-450 TestP? Is there a correlation from TestE to TestP?


 Test P in my experience is more potent even if you have equal weight without the ester. It could be due to the higher spike in level trigger stronger activation of the AR receptor, but even at higher mg of Test e, strength/energy/well being is not as good as test p and the big bonus is a huge difference in water retention.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Measuring it from time to time, and last time it showed up - but you think I should wait adding anadrol or SD etc untill its normal?


 It probably won't make a difference, i doubt adding SD/adrol will suddenly cause a heart attack or stroke. I would run tests a few weeks after the compounds are out of your system to see if everything goes back to normal. That's just me though.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It probably won't make a difference, i doubt adding SD/adrol will suddenly cause a heart attack or stroke. I would run tests a few weeks after the compounds are out of your system to see if everything goes back to normal. That's just me though.


 Okay thank you, how often you hear ppl have this problem while blasting? Is it unusual?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay thank you, how often you hear ppl have this problem while blasting? Is it unusual?


 There is research showing this happens with long term use if you want to google it. Yours might be temporary, only way to find out is to re-test after the cycle is finished.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> How high is the CRP, what's the range for your labs? Not sure about the guiacol, plenty of people have used it without elevated CRP. It can be autoimmune disease and allergies.
> 
> All you can really do besides testing for auto immune disease/allergies is to try dropping the guiacol oils and see if it drops.
> 
> Also:
> 
> "200mg of MERIVA, taken at 200mg daily, was able to reduce symptoms of osteoarthritis and joint pain as assessed by the WOMAC rating scale and improve physical performance.
> 
> C-Reactive Protein decreased only in the group with higher CRP at baseline, although to a very large degree (168 to 11.3mg/L)"


 CRP was at 43,85mg/l and lab says that should be <10mg/l

Have no joint pain arthritis or anything but I used Stanolone in guiacoil for 12 weeks.

Didn't know that could give me that issue...

Will redo bloods in 2 weeks, to see if it is going down. There are any other exams I can do?


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> Test P in my experience is more potent even if you have equal weight without the ester. It could be due to the higher spike in level trigger stronger activation of the AR receptor, but even at higher mg of Test e, strength/energy/well being is not as good as test p and the big bonus is a huge difference in water retention.


 so if you are cruising on 200mg test E a week could you simply switch to test P at 200mg?

1ml monday and then Thursday on test prop? or does it have to be m/w/f minimum dosing


----------



## SlinMeister

darren.1987 said:


> so if you are cruising on 200mg test E a week could you simply switch to test P at 200mg?
> 
> 1ml monday and then Thursday on test prop? or does it have to be m/w/f minimum dosing


 I asked this to @El Chapo days ago in a PM.

You can inject 1ml M 1ml Thursday.

I personally did that and I feel very good....

MWF I would do that on 300mg test prop.

Tbh I would use what you feel better on ....


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> CRP was at 43,85mg/l and lab says that should be <10mg/l
> 
> Have no joint pain arthritis or anything but I used Stanolone in guiacoil for 12 weeks.
> 
> Didn't know that could give me that issue...
> 
> Will redo bloods in 2 weeks, to see if it is going down. There are any other exams I can do?


 That's your best bet, idk how much guaicol is needed to suspend the stanolone you are taking, but if its' like injectable winstrol, it takes a lot of solvent to suspend and stabilize it in solution.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> so if you are cruising on 200mg test E a week could you simply switch to test P at 200mg?
> 
> 1ml monday and then Thursday on test prop? or does it have to be m/w/f minimum dosing


 I do Monday/Thursday test p myself with great results.


----------



## swole troll

whats your thoughts on kidney health supplementation, particularly astragalus?

i think guys focus so heavily on their body's most resilient organ (the liver) and pay little attention to the delicate kidneys which behind heart disease is probably the most common cause of ending up in hospital as a direct result of steroid abuse.

is there any supplement youd recommend to aid in renal health?

i ask as someone that keeps all other variables in check (as best i can given the circumstances) in regard to kidney health, just wondered if like taking fish oil for heart health if there is anything that might aid in keeping the kidneys healthy


----------



## Mike1011

Hi, would this bloodwork be suitable for someone to asses their health if not concerned with knowing their hormone levels? https://www.youth-revisited.co.uk/package-test/dl2l/


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo if using anabolics during training leading up to a fighting event, (MMA/boxing etc) what is the best method in terms of performance on the day? To come off everything apart from testosterone (cruise dosage) or remain on some stanozolol or oxandrolone for the event? If so, which compound and dosage would you reccomend?


----------



## SoberHans

@El Chapo

What's your view on aspartame, is it as bad for your body as some people say it is?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo if using anabolics during training leading up to a fighting event, (MMA/boxing etc) what is the best method in terms of performance on the day? To come off everything apart from testosterone (cruise dosage) or remain on some stanozolol or oxandrolone for the event? If so, which compound and dosage would you reccomend?


 If you aren't being tested, there is no reason to stop on the day of.

If you are being tested, i don't have enough experience in sports doping to suggest any protocols.

Test p and winstrol are great for strength, endurance and recovery. 200-300 mg test p per week daily and 20-30 mg winstrol daily is very effective and will increase strength, recovery, endurance and not affect endurance.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What's your view on aspartame, is it as bad for your body as some people say it is?
> 
> Thanks


 I would not worry about it, just drink/consume in moderation.

Doses needed to illicit any weird responses in studies would need you to consume a more than a bulk container of aspartame daily.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i have to thank you for your advice on strenghtening my core.

I have had lower back issues for years. Peptides, rehab exercises, heat pad and curcumin helped immensely, but after adding in ab exercises (im doing janda situps) my lower back improved dramatically


----------



## leechild4

ElChapo said:


> If you don't want watery, stay away from enanthate/cypionate. Test prop 300 mg-1 gram + AI as needed. Winstrol 50-100 mg daily oral or 150-300 mg injectable. Optional: Add 40 mg injectable superdrol x 3 per week.
> 
> I give you a range of dosages because it really depends on your experience level, goals, and response to AAS. You can go higher or lower and add other things of course.


 @El Chapo planning on starting this bulk next week. Couldn't get any injectable sdrol or winny so have tabs of both. I've done three cycles before Including one with winny and didn't have any bad sides. I'm looking for noticeable gains but not looking to pack on huge amounts. If I'm looking for more conservative doses what would I run of these three compounds for how many weeks?

I see dosages of 500 for test p and 20 for sdrol Ed and 50 for winny but not sure how long to run these for safely. Plan after the cycle is to cruise and continue to conservatively bulk to the end of the year with a few mini cuts thrown in there.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I would not worry about it, just drink/consume in moderation.
> 
> Doses needed to illicit any weird responses in studies would need you to consume a more than a bulk container of aspartame daily.


 Thanks, I enjoy my sugar free pop/soda


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i have to thank you for your advice on strenghtening my core.
> 
> I have had lower back issues for years. Peptides, rehab exercises, heat pad and curcumin helped immensely, but after adding in ab exercises (im doing janda situps) my lower back improved dramatically


 Glad to hear it, it's done wonders for me as well. Most of the time, back issues arise from having weak abdominal muscles, which forces the back to overwork itself to stabilize the body.

Strong abdominal muscles act like a natural back brace.


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> @El Chapo planning on starting this bulk next week. Couldn't get any injectable sdrol or winny so have tabs of both. I've done three cycles before Including one with winny and didn't have any bad sides. I'm looking for noticeable gains but not looking to pack on huge amounts. If I'm looking for more conservative doses what would I run of these three compounds for how many weeks?
> 
> I see dosages of 500 for test p and 20 for sdrol Ed and 50 for winny but not sure how long to run these for safely. Plan after the cycle is to cruise and continue to conservatively bulk to the end of the year with a few mini cuts thrown in there.


 Those are the doses i would start with, for more experienced bodybuilders looking for even more strength and growth, i would double everything (ie 1 gram test p/100 mg winstrol daily).

You can run the orals for 12-16 weeks, avoid alcohol and liver straining drugs like paracetamol/acetaminophen. For extra liver insurance, you can run 1 gram NAC and 250-500 mg of TUDCA or UDCA.

Liver toxicity is overstated greatly, a huge potential of the orals is wasted due to limited time on them. People use them to "kickstart" or "polish" at the end of the cycle, when these drugs have a strong lean tissue building and strength enhancing effect. I've had many people thank me after they ran these orals for +12 weeks with amazing results. Of course, never forget the most important things: 1. progressive overload 2. caloric surplus 3. sufficient rest/recovery.


----------



## Baka

@@ElChapo what s the worst for lipids/liver/health : 100mg anavar for 6 weeks or 25mg anavar for 16 weeks ?

I was wondering how bad is low doses oral on health ?


----------



## zariph

Sore nipples + lactating but normal prolactin? Can the reason be high E2 even when lactating too?

Also would deca or tren have an effect on prolactin if you keep estrogen in check?


----------



## arbffgadm100

swole troll said:


> whats your thoughts on kidney health supplementation, particularly astragalus?
> 
> i think guys focus so heavily on their body's most resilient organ (the liver) and pay little attention to the delicate kidneys which behind heart disease is probably the most common cause of ending up in hospital as a direct result of steroid abuse.
> 
> is there any supplement youd recommend to aid in renal health?
> 
> i ask as someone that keeps all other variables in check (as best i can given the circumstances) in regard to kidney health, just wondered if like taking fish oil for heart health if there is anything that might aid in keeping the kidneys healthy


 @ElChapo

I'm also interested to hear what you think about this (as an astralagus user).

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @@ElChapo what s the worst for lipids/liver/health : 100mg anavar for 6 weeks or 25mg anavar for 16 weeks ?
> 
> I was wondering how bad is low doses oral on health ?


 Neither is bad, it takes years of bad lipid levels to create any negative effect.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Sore nipples + lactating but normal prolactin? Can the reason be high E2 even when lactating too?
> 
> Also would deca or tren have an effect on prolactin if you keep estrogen in check?


 It depends, are you on tren or deca?

Tren/Deca are very strong progestins. This is what causes the gyno and the mood swings/libido/erection problems.

If you aren't running tren/deca, then it's high E2.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm also interested to hear what you think about this (as an astralagus user).
> 
> Thanks


 All you have to do to protect your kidneys is avoid high BP and high blood sugar. Other than that, the only thing that can hurt your kidneys would be a bad infection.

The people you see on dialysis machines are due to one of the three above^, the high BP/high glucose/ or infection from virus or bacteria can destroy kidney cells. The infection event is extremely rare, but high BP is very common and usually no symptoms present and doctors/patient's don't worry about controlling the BP.

Non-compliant diabetic patient's who don't take their insulin will eventually lose their kidney function.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo what is your opinion on the supplement serrapeptase?

I read about some reports with people finding it effective for removing scar tissue from old injuries, which sounds nothing short of amazing, almost too good to be true


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It depends, are you on tren or deca?
> 
> Tren/Deca are very strong progestins. This is what causes the gyno and the mood swings/libido/erection problems.
> 
> If you aren't running tren/deca, then it's high E2.


 Yes on deca, but shouldnt prolactin be elevated then? Or can you lactate with normal prolactin on deca, if so why is that and what to do about it?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo what is your opinion on the supplement serrapeptase?
> 
> I read about some reports with people finding it effective for removing scar tissue from old injuries, which sounds nothing short of amazing, almost too good to be true


 I doubt that, but here's some more info on it:

https://examine.com/supplements/serrapeptase/


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Yes on deca, but shouldnt prolactin be elevated then? Or can you lactate with normal prolactin on deca, if so why is that and what to do about it?


 No, prolactin is not elevated by tren and deca. I have seen it before, but most of the time prolactin is not affected at all by these compounds.

Yes, you can have gyno/lactate with normal prolactin on deca. You have to discontinue deca and run nolvadex or raloxifene to reverse the gyno. I would suggest using a different compound since you are sensitive like me.

Superdrol and winstrol are extremely effective without the tren/deca sides.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, prolactin is not elevated by tren and deca. I have seen it before, but most of the time prolactin is not affected at all by these compounds.
> 
> Yes, you can have gyno/lactate with normal prolactin on deca. You have to discontinue deca and run nolvadex or raloxifene to reverse the gyno. I would suggest using a different compound since you are sensitive like me.
> 
> Superdrol and winstrol are extremely effective without the tren/deca sides.


 Okay thank you! cant run winny, but can thinking about running Adrol or SD with moderate/high test


----------



## SoberHans

El Chapo you deserve a knight hood for your help on here. Sir El Chapo has a good ring to it.

How much would 15 mins of HIIT immediately after workout affect muscle growth? Due to the location of the gym I can't get there twice a day to do each separately.

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> El Chapo you deserve a knight hood for your help on here. Sir El Chapo has a good ring to it.
> 
> How much would 15 mins of HIIT immediately after workout affect muscle growth? Due to the location of the gym I can't get there twice a day to do each separately.
> 
> Cheers


 It should not have a negative effect, but you can keep an eye on progress, if it stalls, you can experiment with cutting back on the HIIT or moving HIIT to your non workout days.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

A mates six weeks into a cycle you had suggested (test p, npp, winny) it's going well so far (I've got it planned to start in three weeks.

Anyway, the winny is 100mg a day and he's got a stag this Friday, works do the following Friday and another stag a weke later. So that's three big drinking days. I've suggested dropping the winny for until the last ones over and drinking less, is that necessary or should be not worry? He doesn't drink this often, and doubt anything else is on the cards until after the cycle.

I've already suggested tuddaca, nac etc but personally think the extra stress of fifteen days winny on top of these nights our is a bit daft when he could drop for the sake of it, then re commence later.

2. I had an echo six years ago, exgbakso. The ecg shows slight arythmia but nothing to be concerned about. Heart is "athletes heart" but no note if any dangers. I go Thursday for a follow up at the cardiology depot with potentially another echo (as the ecg Feb was the same as before) what should I be asking and telling the cardiologist as I'm on trt and have only done mild cycles for two years due to an ongoing injury.

My blood pressure is in the optimal range, I walk 4-6 miles a day with my jib and on the advice of swolle troll I'm adding two or so sessions of gym based cardio at 130-140bpm

Cheers again.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> A mates six weeks into a cycle you had suggested (test p, npp, winny) it's going well so far (I've got it planned to start in three weeks.
> 
> Anyway, the winny is 100mg a day and he's got a stag this Friday, works do the following Friday and another stag a weke later. So that's three big drinking days. I've suggested dropping the winny for until the last ones over and drinking less, is that necessary or should be not worry? He doesn't drink this often, and doubt anything else is on the cards until after the cycle.
> 
> I've already suggested tuddaca, nac etc but personally think the extra stress of fifteen days winny on top of these nights our is a bit daft when he could drop for the sake of it, then re commence later.
> 
> 2. I had an echo six years ago, exgbakso. The ecg shows slight arythmia but nothing to be concerned about. Heart is "athletes heart" but no note if any dangers. I go Thursday for a follow up at the cardiology depot with potentially another echo (as the ecg Feb was the same as before) what should I be asking and telling the cardiologist as I'm on trt and have only done mild cycles for two years due to an ongoing injury.
> 
> My blood pressure is in the optimal range, I walk 4-6 miles a day with my jib and on the advice of swolle troll I'm adding two or so sessions of gym based cardio at 130-140bpm
> 
> Cheers again.


 1. I will never condone drinking on an oral cycle. He only risks acute liver injury, so at worst he would have temporary liver damage/jaundice. I dont recommend it.

2. Telling the MD about your cycle history, he's just going to tell you to discontinue all AAS use including TRT to cover his ass. It won't make a difference otherwise.

3


----------



## stewedw

So don't mention and aas use to the consultant? Cheers.


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo Would untreated sleep apnea affect my recovery and my gains even on test and tren due to lack of proper sleep? Thanks in advance.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> So don't mention and aas use to the consultant? Cheers.


 You could, i'm just saying it won't make much of a difference. They will just blame it on the AAS and tell you to stop using all AAS including TRT.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo Would untreated sleep apnea affect my recovery and my gains even on test and tren due to lack of proper sleep? Thanks in advance.


 Yeah, when you have sleep apnea, you body does not recover properly as the sleep is not as restful as it should be. If you are taking AAS/Eating enough calories/training correctly, the effect on gains will be minimal, but in terms of energy/recovery there may be a modest negative effect.


----------



## Matt83

I can tell you from first hand experience that untreated sleep apnea will, depending on severity, negatively impact growth/recovery. I was diagnosed with severe obstructive sleep apnea 2 years ago. Before my diagnosis my diet and training were on point and was regularly using test, tren, deca, etc. Over the years I had developed a pretty decent amount of size but nothing amazing compared to what my 6.5ft frame could have been carrying. After recieving a CPAP machine and using it religiously every night, in 1 year I went from 18st to 22st with no changes to training, diet or increasing dosages. Plus I felt 100% more energetic and went from feeling like death to feeling great. I also had a decrease in body fat and improved my insulin sensitivity. AAS can thicken your blood, so does sleep apnea. Combined that really isn't good for your health so if you think you have sleep apnea go to your Dr and ask for a referral to a sleep clinic so they can figure out how bad your apnea is and then offer you treatment.


----------



## Whoremoan1

wondering about cramping ...

i take plenty of sodium, bananas , sweet potato etc for potassium, and magnesium supplements, , also electrolytes from my eaa drink

i drink plenty of water and stay hydrated, get taurine from various supps

and i still get cramps, , more so hours after i trained that body part

for example ill train tris and bis, and hours later at work my arm can lock up and i get a huge cramp

sometimes when doing bent over seated rear lat raise my lower abs will lock up and i have to stop the exercise

what is causing this and what can fix it ?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> You could, i'm just saying it won't make much of a difference. They will just blame it on the AAS and tell you to stop using all AAS including TRT.


 @ElChapo

@swole troll

Had my echo today and its unchanged from six years ago. So he thinks it's athletes heart but is sending me for an mri to be on the safe side.

Ecg was is and always has been a bit off. Heart rate seems to sit around 75-80 at rest and at sleep, rising to 100 mostly and randomly spiking to 140 once or twice during the night, so collectively he thinks it's worth further investigating hence the mri (which he said they only started to offer and wouldn't have done six years ago)

He also said the heart seemed a bit lazy, ie if he showed me his heart on the echo it would be beating and moving a lot in order to pump the blood, however mins doesn't and that may be because it doesn't have to since its larger.

Anyway, anything I should be asking on the mri and follow up and anything you'd recommend doing shirt and long term? If not using aas again and sticking to trt or less is best then I'll happily do that, although the last six years of cycling hasn't made the heart any worse and he doesn't think it's a cause (he had noted that I used testosterone from the last time that we met)

He explained everything well, listened to me and seemed genuinely clued up which was refreshing


----------



## MrGRoberts

@ghost.recon I tried tren for the last time recently. Just doesn't agree with me. Running test only right now 300mg per week of E.

In a big calorie deficit and I just feel really soft. No vascularity. My stomach just doesn't seem to be getting any tighter?

I have a tub of Stanavar. Should I take 1 of these per day with the test? 45mg Var, 30mg Winny per pill


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> wondering about cramping ...
> 
> i take plenty of sodium, bananas , sweet potato etc for potassium, and magnesium supplements, , also electrolytes from my eaa drink
> 
> i drink plenty of water and stay hydrated, get taurine from various supps
> 
> and i still get cramps, , more so hours after i trained that body part
> 
> for example ill train tris and bis, and hours later at work my arm can lock up and i get a huge cramp
> 
> sometimes when doing bent over seated rear lat raise my lower abs will lock up and i have to stop the exercise
> 
> what is causing this and what can fix it ?


 If your training volume is very high, this can be a side effect.

Try stretching the muscle after training and relaxing.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> @swole troll
> 
> Had my echo today and its unchanged from six years ago. So he thinks it's athletes heart but is sending me for an mri to be on the safe side.
> 
> Ecg was is and always has been a bit off. Heart rate seems to sit around 75-80 at rest and at sleep, rising to 100 mostly and randomly spiking to 140 once or twice during the night, so collectively he thinks it's worth further investigating hence the mri (which he said they only started to offer and wouldn't have done six years ago)
> 
> He also said the heart seemed a bit lazy, ie if he showed me his heart on the echo it would be beating and moving a lot in order to pump the blood, however mins doesn't and that may be because it doesn't have to since its larger.
> 
> Anyway, anything I should be asking on the mri and follow up and anything you'd recommend doing shirt and long term? If not using aas again and sticking to trt or less is best then I'll happily do that, although the last six years of cycling hasn't made the heart any worse and he doesn't think it's a cause (he had noted that I used testosterone from the last time that we met)
> 
> He explained everything well, listened to me and seemed genuinely clued up which was refreshing


 It's all about priorities. If health and longetivity are priority ; HRT and keep doing cardio, keep BP/E2/HCT in range.

If it's important to you to get bigger, etc, it's your decision to continue blasting.

I recommend attaining your desired level of muscularity within reason (with blasts if need be) and maintaining that indefinitely with diet, training and HRT. That's the best of both worlds in terms of aesthetics and health and what i recommend for most people.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @ghost.recon I tried tren for the last time recently. Just doesn't agree with me. Running test only right now 300mg per week of E.
> 
> In a big calorie deficit and I just feel really soft. No vascularity. My stomach just doesn't seem to be getting any tighter?
> 
> I have a tub of Stanavar. Should I take 1 of these per day with the test? 45mg Var, 30mg Winny per pill


 Test E and C will do that to you. Try propionate next time, it's fairly dry. Enanthate tends to leave a water film unless you are really really lean and even then it can blur definition. No one knows why. It's the broscience.

When you hit big deficits, you tend to hold water and need to go through something call a woosh, read this article if you wanna learn more about it:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/

I would add the stanavar, it might help dry you out some more. Read the article on wooshing, as i think your problem is using Enanthate and probably needing a "woosh".


----------



## zariph

What amount of fat would you recommend? I know you like high carb for muscle size, but how low can I go on fats?


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Test E and C will do that to you. Try propionate next time, it's fairly dry. Enanthate tends to leave a water film unless you are really really lean and even then it can blur definition. No one knows why. It's the broscience.
> 
> When you hit big deficits, you tend to hold water and need to go through something call a woosh, read this article if you wanna learn more about it:
> 
> https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/
> 
> I would add the stanavar, it might help dry you out some more. Read the article on wooshing, as i think your problem is using Enanthate and probably needing a "woosh".


 So basically carry on as normal and a woosh will happen? Or will I need to carb refeed/dry carb refeed to make the woosh happen?

I train fasted at the moment. I don't start eating until 2pm. Will it make any difference that I'm not taking the Stanavar pre workout?

Thanks man


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> What amount of fat would you recommend? I know you like high carb for muscle size, but how low can I go on fats?


 It doesn't really matter, you will get trace amounts from eating food. You don't have to actively avoid it or force yourself to have more (like people who drink spoons of oil to hit their "fat macros")

I generally recommend keeping fat on the lower side during a bulk to make less easy to put on fat (Fat consumed in a surplus can be directly stored). For cutting or maintenance, it doesn't matter, just make sure you get enough carbs, because it's the most important macronutrient for performance after you hit your required protein intake.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> So basically carry on as normal and a woosh will happen? Or will I need to carb refeed/dry carb refeed to make the woosh happen?
> 
> I train fasted at the moment. I don't start eating until 2pm. Will it make any difference that I'm not taking the Stanavar pre workout?
> 
> Thanks man


 As long as you are in a deficit, fat must be burned to keep you alive, period. When you do hard cuts, your body holds on to water where the fat used to be, so it looks like you aren't burning any fat.

This used to happen to me when i cut at +1,000 calorie deficits. You just need to wait. Sometimes carb refeeds will make it happen sooner or right away, but as long as you know you are in a deficit for sure, be patient.

You can take anavar and winstrol at any time of the day, it doesn't have to be pre-workout.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> As long as you are in a deficit, fat must be burned to keep you alive, period. When you do hard cuts, your body holds on to water where the fat used to be, so it looks like you aren't burning any fat.
> 
> This used to happen to me when i cut at +1,000 calorie deficits. You just need to wait. Sometimes carb refeeds will make it happen sooner or right away, but as long as you know you are in a deficit for sure, be patient.
> 
> You can take anavar and winstrol at any time of the day, it doesn't have to be pre-workout.


 Awesome. Motivated me more for sure. Sometimes you look in the mirror and think what's the point lol. I'm for sure in a deficit. Eating 2200 calories a day.

Okay. Would it be better to split the pill and take half with 2pm meal and half with 9.30pm meal or just once with 2pm meal?


----------



## pma111

Is there any logic as to where the body uses stored body fat from first in a cut /calorie deficit, or is it completely random. For example someone who has a fair bit of body fat spread all over, how does the body know where to pull it from in a specific order.


----------



## Ferenor

What are your thoughts on an aggressive cut? I mean staying at 1700-2000 kcal daily with a refeed once in a while? Obviously with some test and something else for keeping muscle


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

@ElChapo I've read that you can't take ECA and Yohimbine together as they work against each other like pushing the gas and brake at the same time, is this correct? What about DNP and Yohimbine?


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

no idea whats going on,,, just recently had bloods and results were all fine, estro ,test, prolactin etc were all where they were meant to be ?
but im not getting 100% hard during sex,, ill start off pretty hard then it slowly gets a bit softer
i can still perform and cum but it doesnt feel as good as it usually does ?
its about 70% erect by the end

im using
test e 750mg
eq 600mg
tren e 400mg
250iu hcg 3x a week
nolva 20mg
NO AI << and estro still within range?? (Tested with lcms) - which is weird i thought considering im on 750mg test

viagra doesnt really help much
and i swear its lost width, almost like theres not enough water or blood in it as usual /

as i said all hormones on bloods are in order,, test maybe could be a bit higher considering the dose,, and i thought estro would be higher but i guess i dont aromatise barely any ?

i also have sex everyday - can this have an effect? maybe im not 'recovering enough?"
i am extremely horny in my mind, just dont think my cock is keeping up with my brain ?


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Awesome. Motivated me more for sure. Sometimes you look in the mirror and think what's the point lol. I'm for sure in a deficit. Eating 2200 calories a day.
> 
> Okay. Would it be better to split the pill and take half with 2pm meal and half with 9.30pm meal or just once with 2pm meal?


 I know the feeling. It happens most often when the deficit is very high, due to the cortisol and other factors.

Just take it once, no need to split. Anytime of the day will work.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> So basically carry on as normal and a woosh will happen? Or will I need to carb refeed/dry carb refeed to make the woosh happen?
> 
> I train fasted at the moment. I don't start eating until 2pm. Will it make any difference that I'm not taking the Stanavar pre workout?
> 
> Thanks man


 Carry on as normal and you will eventually woosh and drop anywhere from 1-3 lbs and look like you lost a couple % body fat overnight once the fat cells let go of the water.

You SHOULD have a refeed somewhere in your week if you are doing a harsh deficit. 1-2 days of high carbs at maintenance will replenish glycogen stores and help you cut more efficiently.

The Stanavar will work no matter when you take it.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is there any logic as to where the body uses stored body fat from first in a cut /calorie deficit, or is it completely random. For example someone who has a fair bit of body fat spread all over, how does the body know where to pull it from in a specific order.


 Great question,

Usually the fat comes off of where it was last stored. So if you gained a lot of fat and the last place it went was to your face, the face would be the first place to lean down most of the time. This happens to most people but it's not a rule.

Fat stored in places like the arms, delts and chest come off very easily due to high concentrations of beta receptors, the stubborn areas are the opposite and contain less beta receptors and more alpha receptors, which slow down fat loss. Certain compounds like Yohimbine will block the alpha receptors and make stubborn fat more easy to burn off, of course you still need to be in a deficit.


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> What are your thoughts on an aggressive cut? I mean staying at 1700-2000 kcal daily with a refeed once in a while? Obviously with some test and something else for keeping muscle


 It works, but it depends on your personality type. Some do best on a fast and hard cut, others are better of going a bit slower with a moderate deficit. This is based not only your personality but also genetics like leptin and dopamine. Some people can trigger a binge eating disorder when their deficits are too intense. Other prefers to enjoy their cut and take a longer time reaching their goal.

Personally, i'm more a fan of a the harder and faster cuts, but strength and muscle will be easier to lose if you aren't careful. The ideal deficit is 20-30% or 500 on average.

1,000 cal deficit is good for guys who can take the hunger and push through training, etc. It will melt fat off with cardio, but water retention/"wooshing" will happen more easily.

Once you are <12%, it's a good idea to have 1-2 refeed days per week where you hit high carbs+maintenance. If you are fatter, you can get away with less or no refeeding since your body is swimming in leptin from the extra fat you carry.


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ElChapo I've read that you can't take ECA and Yohimbine together as they work against each other like pushing the gas and brake at the same time, is this correct? What about DNP and Yohimbine?


 No, they actually potentiate each other quite strongly. EC stack works by activating the beta adrenergic receptors which respond to adrenaline, Yohimbine works by block alpha adrenergic receptors. So they are both powerful stimulants but work via different mechanisms.

Ephedrine: Beta adrenergic receptor agonist

Yohimbine: Alpha adrenergic receptor type II antagonist

ECY is extremely potent and should only be used by people with a high tolerance for stims and those that have used EC and yohimbine seperately.

DNP and yohimbine is a great stack, yohimbine will work as a stimulant which will counteract the lethargy some people get from DNP and it will help stubborn fat cells let go of the fat by blocking the a2 receptors that make fat loss more difficult.

DNP+yohimbine or DNP+EC stack are both excellent. The first stack is better for stubborn fat and already low body fat levels, the second stack is better for those have hunger pangs and issues with controlling their appetite. For best results, add some light cardio like walking for 30-60 minutes daily.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> no idea whats going on,,, just recently had bloods and results were all fine, estro ,test, prolactin etc were all where they were meant to be ?
> but im not getting 100% hard during sex,, ill start off pretty hard then it slowly gets a bit softer
> i can still perform and cum but it doesnt feel as good as it usually does ?
> its about 70% erect by the end
> 
> im using
> test e 750mg
> eq 600mg
> tren e 400mg
> 250iu hcg 3x a week
> nolva 20mg
> NO AI << and estro still within range?? (Tested with lcms) - which is weird i thought considering im on 750mg test
> 
> viagra doesnt really help much
> and i swear its lost width, almost like theres not enough water or blood in it as usual /
> 
> as i said all hormones on bloods are in order,, test maybe could be a bit higher considering the dose,, and i thought estro would be higher but i guess i dont aromatise barely any ?
> 
> i also have sex everyday - can this have an effect? maybe im not 'recovering enough?"
> i am extremely horny in my mind, just dont think my cock is keeping up with my brain ?


 Trenbolone, it can cause spaghetti dick. If you drop it, your erections will likely come back.

In the meantime, if you want to keep running it, get some cialis, 5 mg mwf or 20 mg E3D should work depending on the severity of the ED.

Not sure about the viagra, is it pharma grade/indian pharma/ or ugl?


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Trenbolone, it can cause spaghetti dick. If you drop it, your erections will likely come back.
> 
> In the meantime, if you want to keep running it, get some cialis, 5 mg mwf or 20 mg E3D should work depending on the severity of the ED.
> 
> Not sure about the viagra, is it pharma grade/indian pharma/ or ugl?


 viagra is pharma off script from doc....

did try ugl cialis last night and it helped a bit

weird thing is ive used tren many many times, last year for a majority of the year and it never happened ,,,

but ill drop it out

on that note , aside from winny or sdrol, what would you use in exchange for tren

i wouldnt mind but im really doing the best i ever have this year and would love to keep this growing phase going

would you ever consider test, eq , primo ? i would try npp but i get the feeling same thing would happen to my cock lol

thnx again


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Carry on as normal and you will eventually woosh and drop anywhere from 1-3 lbs and look like you lost a couple % body fat overnight once the fat cells let go of the water.
> 
> You SHOULD have a refeed somewhere in your week if you are doing a harsh deficit. 1-2 days of high carbs at maintenance will replenish glycogen stores and help you cut more efficiently.
> 
> The Stanavar will work no matter when you take it.


 Thanks man.

I have a refeed day on Sunday.

Definately feel like I'm losing more weight now and started Stanavar on Monday


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> viagra is pharma off script from doc....
> 
> did try ugl cialis last night and it helped a bit
> 
> weird thing is ive used tren many many times, last year for a majority of the year and it never happened ,,,
> 
> but ill drop it out
> 
> on that note , aside from winny or sdrol, what would you use in exchange for tren
> 
> i wouldnt mind but im really doing the best i ever have this year and would love to keep this growing phase going
> 
> would you ever consider test, eq , primo ? i would try npp but i get the feeling same thing would happen to my cock lol
> 
> thnx again


 Tren is weird like that, it can cause different sides in different cycles. Might have to do with what you combine with it, but sometimes i would get more insomnia, other times more GERD.

Winstrol and Sdrol are my go to for tren replacement. They are similar if not superior for building lean tissue and drying out the muscles. Nothing else really compares if you are trying to get that "tren effect".

NPP would have a very high chance of causing the same problem, nandrolone and tren are both very potent progestins.

EQ and primo won't come close to getting you those effects, they are very mild all around.

Test P+ winstrol or sdrol is all you need for most applications (Sports performance, powerlifting, and bodybuilding). The rest will come from diet, training, recovery and slin/gh .


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo hi mate I think ive asked this question before but I cant find it in the thread or remember an answer. Anyway what I need to know is about a vasectomy.

I had one about 6 years ago, im almost 49 now and ive not been off test in 6 years apart from 4 week sort of deloads.

I only run 2 cycles but trt the rest on 125mg/150mg test E ew. So my question is other than age affecting my natural testosterone will the vasectomy have ruined it also ?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo hi mate I think ive asked this question before but I cant find it in the thread or remember an answer. Anyway what I need to know is about a vasectomy.
> 
> I had one about 6 years ago, im almost 49 now and ive not been off test in 6 years apart from 4 week sort of deloads.
> 
> I only run 2 cycles but trt the rest on 125mg/150mg test E ew. So my question is other than age affecting my natural testosterone will the vasectomy have ruined it also ?


 Some research suggests there may be a small effect on testosterone levels, but your history of AAS use and your age are going to be significant factors.

A vasectomy would not cause a significant drop.


----------



## zariph

Hey mate, have some questions about HGH if you dont mind.

Benifits of hgh as a average steroid user - is HGH only need for pros?

How dangerous/how many side effects does hgh have compared to normal aas?

Do you need to run insulin while using hgh?

Can I basically just do test+hgh+oral blast, then test+hgh cruise?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey mate, have some questions about HGH if you dont mind.
> 
> Benifits of hgh as a average steroid user - is HGH only need for pros?
> 
> How dangerous/how many side effects does hgh have compared to normal aas?
> 
> Do you need to run insulin while using hgh?
> 
> Can I basically just do test+hgh+oral blast, then test+hgh cruise?
> 
> Thank you


 HGH is useful if you want to attain freak size combined with insulin, otherwise, it's overrated.

HGH is fairly benign in terms of dangerous side effects. High doses raise your blood sugar or increase risk of cancer. If you have family history of diabetes or aggressive cancer, it's a good idea to monitor yourself when using it.

You should run insulin if you are trying to use GH to attain a lot of mass. At lower doses for sports performance or recovery, insulin is not necessary. (<6)

For the last question; Depends on your goals, for anti-aging past the age of 35, if IGF-1 levels are below 250, it's a good idea to consider HGH. It's a really overrated compound, but it has it's uses mainly in anti-aging, injury & sports recovery, and attaining freak mass with insulin.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> HGH is useful if you want to attain freak size combined with insulin, otherwise, it's overrated.
> 
> HGH is fairly benign in terms of dangerous side effects. High doses raise your blood sugar or increase risk of cancer. If you have family history of diabetes or aggressive cancer, it's a good idea to monitor yourself when using it.
> 
> You should run insulin if you are trying to use GH to attain a lot of mass. At lower doses for sports performance or recovery, insulin is not necessary. (<6)
> 
> For the last question; Depends on your goals, for anti-aging past the age of 35, if IGF-1 levels are below 250, it's a good idea to consider HGH. It's a really overrated compound, but it has it's uses mainly in anti-aging, injury & sports recovery, and attaining freak mass with insulin.


 Does the addition of insulin to HGH serve any purpose in terms of recovery/injury healing or in increasing IGF 1 levels?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Does the addition of insulin to HGH serve any purpose in terms of recovery/injury healing or in increasing IGF 1 levels?


 Its possible, by increasing nutrient uptake and some studies show increased wound healing with topical insulin.

You can end up in the hospital if you dont use insulin correctly, so its a risk vs reward thing.


----------



## Tricky

I'm going to run

500mg test e

300mh NPP

which oral and dose?

Superdrol at 20mg for 50days or 40mg for 25 days

Oxy at 50mg for 50 days or 100mg for 25 days

adex will be 0.5mg m/w/f however should I run 10mg nolva per day throughout?

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I'm going to run
> 
> 500mg test e
> 
> 300mh NPP
> 
> which oral and dose?
> 
> Superdrol at 20mg for 50days or 40mg for 25 days
> 
> Oxy at 50mg for 50 days or 100mg for 25 days
> 
> adex will be 0.5mg m/w/f however should I run 10mg nolva per day throughout?
> 
> @ElChapo


 I have a strong preference for superdrol, do 90 days for best results.

I'm not a fan of nolva unless needed for gyno reversal. NPP and high e2 can cause gyno. Have you had gyno in the past?

It's hit or miss when running nolva or ralox on cycle to prevent it when running 19-nors. It depends on your susceptibility to gyno.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> I have a strong preference for superdrol, do 90 days for best results.
> 
> I'm not a fan of nolva unless needed for gyno reversal. NPP and high e2 can cause gyno. Have you had gyno in the past?
> 
> It's hit or miss when running nolva or ralox on cycle to prevent it when running 19-nors. It depends on your susceptibility to gyno.



View attachment 163651


You can see even at my leanest my left nipple always seems very pointed and puffy. I don't run tren as once previously it killed my sex drive but I really noticed my nipples!

Ive never ran npp or oxy before just test and winny


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> HGH is useful if you want to attain freak size combined with insulin, otherwise, it's overrated.
> 
> HGH is fairly benign in terms of dangerous side effects. High doses raise your blood sugar or increase risk of cancer. If you have family history of diabetes or aggressive cancer, it's a good idea to monitor yourself when using it.
> 
> You should run insulin if you are trying to use GH to attain a lot of mass. At lower doses for sports performance or recovery, insulin is not necessary. (<6)
> 
> For the last question; Depends on your goals, for anti-aging past the age of 35, if IGF-1 levels are below 250, it's a good idea to consider HGH. It's a really overrated compound, but it has it's uses mainly in anti-aging, injury & sports recovery, and attaining freak mass with insulin.


 Thank you for detailed answer as always! I have some other questions tho

Oxy and winny - do you dose them pre or split the dose morning/evening - what dose you recommend for either(will only do one at a time)

Whats the point in these drugs and how and when should they be used?
-Primobolan

Equiboise


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> View attachment 163651
> 
> 
> You can see even at my leanest my left nipple always seems very pointed and puffy. I don't run tren as once previously it killed my sex drive but I really noticed my nipples!
> 
> Ive never ran npp or oxy before just test and winny


 I see it, NPP will likely flare that up. I give it a +70% chance of growing that gyno.

I strongly suggest sticking to sdrol, winny and test. Your gains are going to come from your diet and training. Individual compounds are vastly overrated. There are many guys running 5 compounds at once in very high doses who don't look like they lift, and other guys running test solo who look amazing.

Of course, genetics have to do with this to an extent, but many place too much faith in the AAS and don't focus on the diet/training.

If you are gyno prone, avoid Nandrolone/Trenbolone/dbol and high E2.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for detailed answer as always! I have some other questions tho
> 
> Oxy and winny - do you dose them pre or split the dose morning/evening - what dose you recommend for either(will only do one at a time)
> 
> Whats the point in these drugs and how and when should they be used?
> -Primobolan
> 
> Equiboise


 Once daily for all orals, anytime of the day. Think of it this way, muscle growth does not happen during your workouts, but on your rest days during recovery.

Primo/EQ have low side effects but you need higher doses to see effects. Primo does not tend to be as cost effective as other AAS. I don't really recommend either of them to be honest.

I have found Test P/Superdrol/winstrol to be the best AAS in terms of effectiveness(strength increase/dryness/lean tissue building), availability, side effect profile and value for your money.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Once daily for all orals, anytime of the day. Think of it this way, muscle growth does not happen during your workouts, but on your rest days during recovery.
> 
> Primo/EQ have low side effects but you need higher doses to see effects. Primo does not tend to be as cost effective as other AAS. I don't really recommend either of them to be honest.
> 
> I have found Test P/Superdrol/winstrol to be the best AAS in terms of effectiveness(strength increase/dryness/lean tissue building), availability, side effect profile and value for your money.


 Thx, why only once a day for orals? The half life is 8-10 hours of oxy and winny, but I guess it doesnt matter too much?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx, why only once a day for orals? The half life is 8-10 hours of oxy and winny, but I guess it doesnt matter too much?


 Doesn't matter, half-life just means it will be a bit lower. You don't have to maintain constant peak levels to get an effect, if you did, we would be walking around with IV bags with medications/drugs.


----------



## Nara

For a few days I've been experiencing dull pain on the upper outer part of the front side of my elbow a bit lower where my bicep joins my lower arm, I suspect this to be tennis elbow? I think it happened from having someone laying on my arm for a long time but it's hindering my lifting as I can't use my left arm to lift due to the pain flaring up and then not being able to grip or fully extend my arm. How can I go about not losing muscle since I'll be unable to lift for my upper body?

I will continue to train legs and eat as I would hitting my protein macro as well as continue test/tren, will I lose a significant amount of muscle if I rested my upper body for a week or two?


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> For a few days I've been experiencing dull pain on the upper outer part of the front side of my elbow a bit lower where my bicep joins my lower arm, I suspect this to be tennis elbow? I think it happened from having someone laying on my arm for a long time but it's hindering my lifting as I can't use my left arm to lift due to the pain flaring up and then not being able to grip or fully extend my arm. How can I go about not losing muscle since I'll be unable to lift for my upper body?
> 
> I will continue to train legs and eat as I would hitting my protein macro as well as continue test/tren, will I lose a significant amount of muscle if I rested my upper body for a week or two?


 Does it hurt during rest or only during activity? Depending on the answer, you can take 1-4 weeks off. It takes 3-4 weeks to start losing muscle and strength without training.

You should definitely take a few weeks off lifting, you can keep training your legs if you want. If it doesn't hurt during rest, 2-3 weeks should heal it on it's own. If it hurts during rest, it's a more severe injury and will take 3-4 weeks at least of full rest.

You will not lose muscle or strength. You could literally stop training completely and after 3 weeks not lose muscle. You might look flatter from not training the specific muscle, but that will come back as soon as you start again.

If you wanna read more about it muscle and strength loss during breaks:

http://sci-fit.net/2017/detraining-retraining/


----------



## Nara

ElChapo said:


> Does it hurt during rest or only during activity? Depending on the answer, you can take 1-4 weeks off. It takes 3-4 weeks to start losing muscle and strength without training.
> 
> You should definitely take a few weeks off lifting, you can keep training your legs if you want. If it doesn't hurt during rest, 2-3 weeks should heal it on it's own. If it hurts during rest, it's a more severe injury and will take 3-4 weeks at least of full rest.
> 
> You will not lose muscle or strength. You could literally stop training completely and after 3 weeks not lose muscle. You might look flatter from not training the specific muscle, but that will come back as soon as you start again.
> 
> If you wanna read more about it muscle and strength loss during breaks:
> 
> http://sci-fit.net/2017/detraining-retraining/


 Thank you for that, it's fine when I'm resting but sometimes there's a slight ache not too much for me to notice unless I actually focus on it and try to feel something. Will taking ibuprofen help speed the healing process? I will definitely rest it.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> Thank you for that, it's fine when I'm resting but sometimes there's a slight ache not too much for me to notice unless I actually focus on it and try to feel something. Will taking ibuprofen help speed the healing process? I will definitely rest it.


 I wouldn't bother with ibuprofen, take 2-3 weeks off any upper body training. Ice it for 20 mins at a time a few times a day for a little while. This will naturally reduce the inflammation and quicken healing time.

Stick to leg press, hammy curls and quad extension if you can so you can leave your arms completely out of the movement.

Once you get back, avoid straight barbell curls, stick the dumbbell only. Straight barbell kills those tendons and ligaments


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i have had a pretty serious tenniselbow (tendon and forearm muscle overuse).

At this point i am more or less symptom free and back to training, altho still have to be careful with heavy weight.

Anyway, sometimes when taking a piss i get these radiating tingling feelings in my forearm muscle. Im guessing its a nerve thats trapped or something. I get the same feeling in the morning in my arm if i overdid GH the previous day (leading me to believe that its water pressing on the same nerve or area)

When i massage the forearm muscle I also feel a whole lot of weird lumps and knots in there).

Anyway, Im training and strenghtening it, massaging it, applying heat daily and stretching daily - and like i said, the "injury" itself seems to have healed up, just cant get rid of those tingling feelings which comes every 4th time I take a piss, hah..

Do you have any advice?

Edit: oh and I had this tingling issue years before experimenting with HGH so its unrelated


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i have had a pretty serious tenniselbow (tendon and forearm muscle overuse).
> 
> At this point i am more or less symptom free and back to training, altho still have to be careful with heavy weight.
> 
> Anyway, sometimes when taking a piss i get these radiating tingling feelings in my forearm muscle. Im guessing its a nerve thats trapped or something. I get the same feeling in the morning in my arm if i overdid GH the previous day (leading me to believe that its water pressing on the same nerve or area)
> 
> When i massage the forearm muscle I also feel a whole lot of weird lumps and knots in there).
> 
> Anyway, Im training and strenghtening it, massaging it, applying heat daily and stretching daily - and like i said, the "injury" itself seems to have healed up, just cant get rid of those tingling feelings which comes every 4th time I take a piss, hah..
> 
> Do you have any advice?
> 
> Edit: oh and I had this tingling issue years before experimenting with HGH so its unrelated


 It's probably related to the tennis elbow, the nerve probably still get irritated once in a while. Not sure, if it's not uncomfortable i wouldn't worry about it though. Surgery would probably correct something like that but in my opinion wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> It's probably related to the tennis elbow, the nerve probably still get irritated once in a while. Not sure, if it's not uncomfortable i wouldn't worry about it though. Surgery would probably correct something like that but in my opinion wouldn't be worth it.


 Makes sense. Well there is no pain or anything so I guess I will just live with it.

Thanks!


----------



## MrGRoberts

@ghost.recon

I have been taking 300mg Test E split into 2 jabs per week the past 2/3 weeks. Haven't been taking an AI and I have zero sex drive. I can get hard and cum but I lose erection very easy. I don't have any gyno symptoms though. Also feel pretty fatigued/no energy. Is my estrogen high? I have pharma aromasin on hand. What dose should I start at?

I cant get a blood test right now as I'm in Barcelona until 1st September so it's pretty annoying.


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo

Afternoon mate.

I recently got refused from giving blood, so they done a blood test, results below









Obviously hgb and hct are low and few others are a bit out, but im unaware what the others mean, any chance you can put it in good old dumb ass language please lol

Anything to be worried about?

Thanks in advance


----------



## TALBOTL

@El Chapo I wondered if you could help on a slightly different issue to steroids, a friend of my Father has been suffering with psoriasis not bad but just small patches flaring up, I'm sure I read something you posted about digestive aids helping or something to that effect in line with steroid advice - I wondered if you could advise anything that may assist, the prescription creams aren't doing much apparently.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

LT


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @ghost.recon
> 
> I have been taking 300mg Test E split into 2 jabs per week the past 2/3 weeks. Haven't been taking an AI and I have zero sex drive. I can get hard and cum but I lose erection very easy. I don't have any gyno symptoms though. Also feel pretty fatigued/no energy. Is my estrogen high? I have pharma aromasin on hand. What dose should I start at?
> 
> I cant get a blood test right now as I'm in Barcelona until 1st September so it's pretty annoying.


 You don't need to have gyno or itchy nipples to have high E2.

It's likely either high E2 or bunk test.

If it's high E2 then 25-50 mg per week is a good start, split every 3.5 days or twice a week.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Afternoon mate.
> 
> I recently got refused from giving blood, so they done a blood test, results below
> 
> View attachment 173027
> 
> 
> Obviously hgb and hct are low and few others are a bit out, but im unaware what the others mean, any chance you can put it in good old dumb ass language please lol
> 
> Anything to be worried about?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Your platelets are high too. Do you donate blood regularly, vegan diet or had recent surgery or blood loss?


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @El Chapo I wondered if you could help on a slightly different issue to steroids, a friend of my Father has been suffering with psoriasis not bad but just small patches flaring up, I'm sure I read something you posted about digestive aids helping or something to that effect in line with steroid advice - I wondered if you could advise anything that may assist, the prescription creams aren't doing much apparently.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
> 
> LT


 It would be good to test for food or enviromental allergies that can cause flare ups. Sometimes it's just completely random, as it's an autoimmune thing.

In the meantime, a topical corticosteroid will heal it temporarily and many times it won't come back for a while.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo what do you think of cardarine ? are SARMS useful for an AAS user?


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> You don't need to have gyno or itchy nipples to have high E2.
> 
> It's likely either high E2 or bunk test.
> 
> If it's high E2 then 25-50 mg per week is a good start, split every 3.5 days or twice a week.


 If it's high E2 and I start taking aromasin how quick will my sex drive come back?


----------



## swole troll

how long do you need to fast before yohimbine usage?

to put it into context i take it fine on non training days pre fasted cardio but when i train i always eat around my workout (train first thing in the morning) so if i were to train, consume my food pre workout and a shake post, how long would i need to fast for in order to effectively use yohimbine pre cardio later that day ?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Your platelets are high too. Do you donate blood regularly, vegan diet or had recent surgery or blood loss?


 Last time i donated was 16weeks ago.

No veganism in this house hold lol.. meat all the way.

No surgery or blood loss either.

Just on 300mg test pw and 200mg dnp pd


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo what do you think of cardarine ? are SARMS useful for an AAS user?


 Not impressed by SARMs to be honest, AAS will do the job. If someone isn't getting the results they need from AAS, they need to look at their diet, training and recovery. The problem lies there.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> If it's high E2 and I start taking aromasin how quick will my sex drive come back?


 Could come back very fast, few days to a week at most. Make sure your test is legit as there IS bunk stuff out there as seen by a lot of the blood work around here and other sites.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> how long do you need to fast before yohimbine usage?
> 
> to put it into context i take it fine on non training days pre fasted cardio but when i train i always eat around my workout (train first thing in the morning) so if i were to train, consume my food pre workout and a shake post, how long would i need to fast for in order to effectively use yohimbine pre cardio later that day ?


 You would be back to "fasted" within 2-4 hours depending on the size of your meal. Lighter meal = 2 hours Moderate-heavy meal = 4-5 hours.

Yohimbine is best used early morning fasted as it can also be a poweful stimulant, so later in the day can affect sleep as well.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Last time i donated was 16weeks ago.
> 
> No veganism in this house hold lol.. meat all the way.
> 
> No surgery or blood loss either.
> 
> Just on 300mg test pw and 200mg dnp pd


 Interesting. How many cycles have you ran and when was your last cycle? Testosterone will usually boost RBC and hematocrit. You are borderline anemic.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> Interesting. How many cycles have you ran and when was your last cycle? Testosterone will usually boost RBC and hematocrit. You are borderline anemic.


 Only 4 cycles and last cycle ended about 3 weeks ago id say.

Its the 1st time this has happened in 2 years or so of using.


----------



## Mickstar

Hi there I've been on for coming upto 11 weeks on test e, I started the first 2 weeks on 250mg test e, then bumped it upto 500mg for the last 9 weeks, my strength is continuing to increase and I'm hitting pbs most gym sessions, I intended to only run short cycles of upto 12 weeks then pct , a couple of cycles a year , would it be worth it to prolong the cycle of 500mg for another 5 weeks which would be a total of 16 weeks on try and make the most out of it until progression stalls. I'm trying to minimise health risks as much as possible. Cheers


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo oral steroids block cortisol effects , does it mean you'll feel like you have low cortisol?

I know orals at a certain dose make me feel sluggish , like Ive got slow reaction etc. not from liver problems ( bloods taken , tudca nac )

so I guess it may be from cortisol .

Atm I'm on 25mg tbol and I like it a lot , the only downside is that I feel sluggish , not lethargic. on 75mg I was lethargic

Is there a way to counteract the symptoms of low cortisol levels without stopping taking the oral? I'm taking caffeine pre workout already . I know ephedrine counteract it but I won't touch it , gives too much anxiety days after intake.


----------



## woolymaggot

Baka said:


> @ElChapo oral steroids block cortisol effects , does it mean you'll feel like you have low cortisol?
> 
> I know orals at a certain dose make me feel sluggish , like Ive got slow reaction etc. not from liver problems ( bloods taken , tudca nac )
> 
> so I guess it may be from cortisol .
> 
> Atm I'm on 25mg tbol and I like it a lot , the only downside is that I feel sluggish , not lethargic. on 75mg I was lethargic
> 
> Is there a way to counteract the symptoms of low cortisol levels without stopping taking the oral? I'm taking caffeine pre workout already . I know ephedrine counteract it but I won't touch it , gives too much anxiety days after intake.


 Apologies for jumping in on this one but I'd be quite interested in this as I've just literally crashed.

Coincides exactly with introduction of test prop from the first shot (EOD) 300mg/week but could just be coincidence.

My first thoughts were knock on effect of not sleeping well for weeks but pushing through with fasting everyday until 1pm, keto and cardio.

@Baka I was taking salbutamol 5mg tabs totalling a low dose of 12.5mg per day. Much less sides than clen and eph but definitely got me through a tough patch. I suspect the combination of salb, caffeine and fasting may have encouraged a bit of stress in the body.

However, I don't like to take salb for too long as wary of post course crash. My joints feel great on it and loads of energy and focus.

I'll leave @El Chapo to advise but if you feel it's low cortisol then early morning blood test may be useful and pretty cheap. Could raising it during fatigue be counterproductive. Not sure how common it actually is but it's something I'm keen to understand.


----------



## Baka

woolymaggot said:


> Apologies for jumping in on this one but I'd be quite interested in this as I've just literally crashed.
> 
> Coincides exactly with introduction of test prop from the first shot (EOD) 300mg/week but could just be coincidence.
> 
> My first thoughts were knock on effect of not sleeping well for weeks but pushing through with fasting everyday until 1pm, keto and cardio.
> 
> @Baka I was taking salbutamol 5mg tabs totalling a low dose of 12.5mg per day. Much less sides than clen and eph but definitely got me through a tough patch. I suspect the combination of salb, caffeine and fasting may have encouraged a bit of stress in the body.
> 
> However, I don't like to take salb for too long as wary of post course crash. My joints feel great on it and loads of energy and focus.
> 
> I'll leave @El Chapo to advise but if you feel it's low cortisol then early morning blood test may be useful and pretty cheap. Could raising it during fatigue be counterproductive. Not sure how common it actually is but it's something I'm keen to understand.


 I always had really high cortisol levels , since I suffer from anxiety disorders since I'm a kid.

I started taking supplements years ago to lower it , and lower anxiety , then it turned into low dose test ( which helped cortisol levels yes , but has it s side effects too ).

Now about Tbol , It blocks cortisol receptors or effects , it may be the reason why I m sluggish and have bad balance when I stand or walk? always had but getting worse on oral


----------



## woolymaggot

Chronically high cortisol doesn't sound great and can imagine that may eventually lead to fatigue at times.

I've never really suffered with anxiety but you have my sympathy, can imagine it feels pretty helpless. Good on ya for trying to find solutions yourself. Quite interesting the use of low test and compounds that support training which again must be beneficial for you in many ways combating it. Sounds a difficult balancing act.

My fatigue stems back to glandular fever which left me very poorly and had months and months of fatigue. Training and TRT helped me also but from a slightly different angle. Been great recently until bam, hit me like a ton bricks. After dropping tons of body fat and feeling great hitting my goals....sucks. If mine is cortisol it's just a guess that I have elevated mine for too long and now my body has just gone, 'that's it sunshine, you've flogged the sh#t out of me and I'm shutting you down son'.

If rest, no cardio, ceasing fasting for a few days with a moderate increase in carbs doesn't provide recuperation I need then I'm riding the salbutamol just to spike my cortisol for the couple of weeks before my target date. This hard slog of dieting etc is not going to waste!


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Only 4 cycles and last cycle ended about 3 weeks ago id say.
> 
> Its the 1st time this has happened in 2 years or so of using.


 What was the last time you got blood work? Have you noticed RBC and hematocrit around the same level? Do you eat any red meat?


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi there I've been on for coming upto 11 weeks on test e, I started the first 2 weeks on 250mg test e, then bumped it upto 500mg for the last 9 weeks, my strength is continuing to increase and I'm hitting pbs most gym sessions, I intended to only run short cycles of upto 12 weeks then pct , a couple of cycles a year , would it be worth it to prolong the cycle of 500mg for another 5 weeks which would be a total of 16 weeks on try and make the most out of it until progression stalls. I'm trying to minimise health risks as much as possible. Cheers


 Yeah, you can extend it. This is why i'm a proponent of longer cycles sometimes, you have the momentum going so you can keep at it. The first few weeks are kind of wasted because the AAS takes a while to start activating all those muscle building genes.

Oral kickstarts or stacking orals for the entire cycle length with injectables can resolve this to an extent as they kick in very fast.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo oral steroids block cortisol effects , does it mean you'll feel like you have low cortisol?
> 
> I know orals at a certain dose make me feel sluggish , like Ive got slow reaction etc. not from liver problems ( bloods taken , tudca nac )
> 
> so I guess it may be from cortisol .
> 
> Atm I'm on 25mg tbol and I like it a lot , the only downside is that I feel sluggish , not lethargic. on 75mg I was lethargic
> 
> Is there a way to counteract the symptoms of low cortisol levels without stopping taking the oral? I'm taking caffeine pre workout already . I know ephedrine counteract it but I won't touch it , gives too much anxiety days after intake.


 All androgens have this effect to an extent. This is one theory for why they cause lethargy. High dose of injectables can also do this to people. I don't believe it directly lowers serum cortisol levels, but likely block's it's actions because androgens block cortisol action.

More coffee or like you said, ephedrine is really good if you are cutting, but it comes with the territory. That comes with the lifestyle, all the side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> Chronically high cortisol doesn't sound great and can imagine that may eventually lead to fatigue at times.
> 
> I've never really suffered with anxiety but you have my sympathy, can imagine it feels pretty helpless. Good on ya for trying to find solutions yourself. Quite interesting the use of low test and compounds that support training which again must be beneficial for you in many ways combating it. Sounds a difficult balancing act.
> 
> My fatigue stems back to glandular fever which left me very poorly and had months and months of fatigue. Training and TRT helped me also but from a slightly different angle. Been great recently until bam, hit me like a ton bricks. After dropping tons of body fat and feeling great hitting my goals....sucks. If mine is cortisol it's just a guess that I have elevated mine for too long and now my body has just gone, 'that's it sunshine, you've flogged the sh#t out of me and I'm shutting you down son'.
> 
> If rest, no cardio, ceasing fasting for a few days with a moderate increase in carbs doesn't provide recuperation I need then I'm riding the salbutamol just to spike my cortisol for the couple of weeks before my target date. This hard slog of dieting etc is not going to waste!


 Sounds like you need a training/diet break. 1-2 weeks at maintenance will help, using stimulants for a long time can do that sometimes too and when you stop using them, there will be a crash proportionate to how much you were using.

Have you tested your thyroid hormones?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Sounds like you need a training/diet break. 1-2 weeks at maintenance will help, using stimulants for a long time can do that sometimes too and when you stop using them, there will be a crash proportionate to how much you were using.
> 
> Have you tested your thyroid hormones?


 Been training for 10 years , 6 times a week for 2-4 hours a day , used eca for 1 year straight (only as a pre ) ---> I killed my nervous system which lead to feeling so bad and multiple injuries in just a matter of weeks . in 10 years the biggest break I've done was 5 days , because I had real bad shoulder injury.

Overtraining + strong stimulants can break you down , really.

Now I listen much more to my body , i do light training week every 6 weeks to 'reset' , etc..


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo I know you are not that much into peptides, but judging from the clinical litterature, whats your opinion on the potential of tb 500 for injury healing?

From what I can gather it seems to have potential in terms of angiogenesis, proliferation and reducing inflammation


----------



## Baka

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I know you are not that much into peptides, but judging from the clinical litterature, whats your opinion on the potential of tb 500 for injury healing?
> 
> From what I can gather it seems to have potential in terms of angiogenesis, proliferation and reducing inflammation


 works well for me , had real bad shoulder injuries and healed it really fast

the only downside is that it increases my RBC/hematocrit really fast and high , and I already have high RBC from test usage .


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Would you advice someone losing hair fast , to take fina/durasteride ?

I'm thinking of trying it , but I have gyno and even the shampoo Nizoral made it worse (felt the nipples burning for 2 days afterwards) , so I guess fina/dura would be worse ?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Baka said:


> works well for me , had real bad shoulder injuries and healed it really fast
> 
> the only downside is that it increases my RBC/hematocrit really fast and high , and I already have high RBC from test usage .


 Do you think it has other positive healing effects besides reducing inflammation?


----------



## Baka

Dannyb0yb said:


> Do you think it has other positive healing effects besides reducing inflammation?


 I think it helps things broken in your body , everywhere.

To me it's a miracle drug , totally worth it. I even thought of taking a maintenance dose all year long but the high RBC problems made me stop.

I'll only take it if I get injured , bone/joints or bad inflammation.

It even seemed like my hairline was healthier and wasn't shedding as much as normaly.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> What was the last time you got blood work? Have you noticed RBC and hematocrit around the same level? Do you eat any red meat?


 Last time was through my doctor (for something unrelated to this) about 8 or weeks ago, i never heard from them so everything must have been ok.

Yes, i have roast beef dinner every sunday and eat steak twice a week.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Would you advice someone losing hair fast , to take fina/durasteride ?
> 
> I'm thinking of trying it , but I have gyno and even the shampoo Nizoral made it worse (felt the nipples burning for 2 days afterwards) , so I guess fina/dura would be worse ?


 Never, DHT is very important for health.

If nizoral makes you feel that way, you will kill yourself on dutasteride/finasteride.

Another option is to cruise on a combo of test and npp but the NPP can increase the risk of gyno. Your best bet is regular nizoral use 2-7 times per week, 5 minutes minimum then rinse.

Hopefully this slows it down enough until more research finds a cure for hair loss. I am sure in the future there will be something to address the problem with Gene therapy and/or stem cell medicine.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Last time was through my doctor (for something unrelated to this) about 8 or weeks ago, i never heard from them so everything must have been ok.
> 
> Yes, i have roast beef dinner every sunday and eat steak twice a week.


 You can add "megafoods blood builder" or iron biglycinate aka "ferrochel" to your supplement stack to help get your HCT back into the 40s. As it stands, you are borderline anemic.

Doctor's don't care as long as you aren't dying. Optimal well-being comes second to them, if they care at all.


----------



## ElChapo

I got a great question from member @spardaa. Sharing the response as it may come in handy for many people here:

Heart health:

CT scans to get calcium score and check blood flow through all the chambers/etc and an EKG to check the rhythm will give you an idea of overall heart health.

CBC : Check HGB and HCT.

You want HCT between 40-50%. Too low can cause low energy and endurance due to anemia. Too high (polycythemia) will make the blood to thick and make your heart work much harder to pump blood, decreases blood flow and increases the risk of high blood pressure and increase coagulation (increased risk of stroke/heart attack)

Kidneys:

You want GFR over 60. If you take creatine or carry a lot of muscles, sometimes this number can be artificially low. Another cause of low GFR is poor thyroid function. GFR stands for glomerular filtration rate, basically, how quickly your kidneys are filtering your blood.

Lipids:

Cholesterol levels are overrated and the total count is not too important, but you want to have as high HDL as possible as it has a protective effect on arterial health. AAS will low HDL, especially tren and winstrol. This is not a problem as long as you don't do it year round for long periods of time.

Liver: AST/ALT under 100 is fine, again, unless this is crazy elevated for long periods, it won't be a problem. TUDCA and NAC are very effective and increasing the livers natural defenses and preventing cholestasis. This is when the bile stops flowing properly through the liver and one of the main causes of oral AAS induced liver toxicity.

IGF-1:

It's a good idea to keep an eye on this as you age, generally, levels above 250 are good. GH increases igf-1 which is how it works for anti-aging, well-being and muscle growth. If your levels are low, bringing them up will help you age healthy (think Sylvester Stallone; who was actually caught with about $20,000 worth of HGH in Australia)

Total T/Free T:

Good to keep an eye on as you age or if you are cycling off to gauge natural testosterone recovery. Ideal levels for most people are 700-1,000 ng/dL for total testosterone, the average for a normal man is 500 ng/dL and can fluctuate due to genetics, lifestyle, and/or injury to the testes. You can google a calculator to convert the number to your metric system. The higher the test level, the harder it becomes to control things like E2 (estrogen), Hematocrit (blood thickness), drops in HDL (good cholesterol) and blood pressure (you never want this higher than 135/85 mmhg for longer periods of time, it damaged the heart, kidneys, eyes, etc). Always test early morning/fasted. (between 7-9 AM)

E2:

Ideal level for most people is 20-42 pg/ML, important for libido, bone health, mood/well-being, and heart health.

HbA1c: aka glycated hemoglobin.

This measures your average blood glucose of the last 3 months. Should be between 5-5.6%. Any higher is indicative of possible pre-diabetes.

Thyroid panel: TSH/Free T4/Free T3.

TSH: Any TSH level over 3 should be investigated for sublinical hypothyroidism if the patient has symptoms such as fatigue, cold intolerance, mood swings/depression, and constipation. TSH is not actually a thyroid hormone but a pituitary hormone that sends a signal from the brain to the thyroid to produce more hormone. The higher the level the poorer the thyroid function, but it's not always reliable because you can have perfect TSH and extremely bad thyroid function. TSH is the LH/FSH of the thyroid. Should be tested early morning fasted to get the best baseline level as it won't be accurate taken later in the day. (between 7-9 AM).

FT4 & FT3: Free T4 and Free T3 are the active thyroid hormones. Contrary to popular belief, T4 is very important and is an active hormone on it's own with it's own functions. Certain tissues and cells are better at using T4 and others prefer T3. Sometimes T3 is poorly absorbed by certain tissues and needs T4 to convert the T3 it needs. Optimal levels of Free T4 should be around 1.4-1.8 ng/dL and Free T3 3.5-4.2 pg/mL. Cutting and long diets or overtraining can lower Free T3 levels naturally by decreasing the conversion of T4 to T3, this is the bodies way of trying to conserve energy, by down regulating the metabolism.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> You can add "megafoods blood builder" or iron biglycinate aka "ferrochel" to your supplement stack to help get your HCT back into the 40s. As it stands, you are borderline anemic.
> 
> Doctor's don't care as long as you aren't dying. Optimal well-being comes second to them, if they care at all.


 Im hopefully going to get an appointment to see the gp tomorrow and see what they say, but if they're not too concerned i shall certainly try your recommendations.

Thanks mate, much appreciated.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo, hope you're well.

On a NPP and test e cycle at the minute, 300mg and 600mg per week.

5 weeks into the cycle and got 11 weeks left, 9 on NPP.

Just found out I have to travel abroad for a few weeks and I can't get them there.

I know you said steroid gains are about gene expression and not blood levels.

If I injected on the day I leave then two weeks later, would the NPP show results again quicker or would it be like starting from scratch by that point?

Thanks


----------



## Cypionate

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo, hope you're well.
> 
> On a NPP and test e cycle at the minute, 300mg and 600mg per week.
> 
> 5 weeks into the cycle and got 11 weeks left, 9 on NPP.
> 
> Just found out I have to travel abroad for a few weeks and I can't get them there.
> 
> I know you said steroid gains are about gene expression and not blood levels.
> 
> If I injected on the day I leave then two weeks later, would the NPP show results again quicker or would it be like starting from scratch by that point?
> 
> Thanks


 Only takes about 1-2 weeks for NPP to work anyway, but fairly sure if you shot on the day you left you'd still have some in your system 2 weeks later, Phenylpropionate has a long enough half-life to last 2 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo, hope you're well.
> 
> On a NPP and test e cycle at the minute, 300mg and 600mg per week.
> 
> 5 weeks into the cycle and got 11 weeks left, 9 on NPP.
> 
> Just found out I have to travel abroad for a few weeks and I can't get them there.
> 
> I know you said steroid gains are about gene expression and not blood levels.
> 
> If I injected on the day I leave then two weeks later, would the NPP show results again quicker or would it be like starting from scratch by that point?
> 
> Thanks


 Do you have access to any oral AAS? You can take those while you are a abroad if you pop them into a vitamin or supplement bottle.

That would be the #1 option, otherwise, i would extend the cycle another 2 weeks when you get back.

Can you lift while you are away?

If you curious about how your levels will look after 2 weeks, pop your numbers into steroidcalc.com


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> If you curious about how your levels will look after 2 weeks, pop your numbers into steroidcalc.com


 How do you get that graph to show levels after stopping a compound?

I can only make it show me levels while on cycle


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> How do you get that graph to show levels after stopping a compound?
> 
> I can only make it show me levels while on cycle


 You can set the time period you want to test ; the first drop down list.

Then you can set how long you will take the specific compound. For example, set cycle length to 12 weeks, when choosing NPP, tell it you are only running NPP for 4 weeks.

You can make another NPP tab and set it to resume NPP at week 6, even down to the day. The tool is very versatile.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> You can set the time period you want to test ; the first drop down list.
> 
> Then you can set how long you will take the specific compound. For example, set cycle length to 12 weeks, when choosing NPP, tell it you are only running NPP for 4 weeks.
> 
> You can make another NPP tab and set it to resume NPP at week 6, even down to the day.


 Ah gotcha, thanks

So around 10 days before NPP will be pretty much gone at 150mg eod or even e3d


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> Ah gotcha, thanks
> 
> So around 10 days before NPP will be pretty much gone at 150mg eod or even e3d


 Yeah, it can vary a bit from person to person due to individual differences in steroid metabolism. It's genetic, people are born with different enzyme activity levels that metabolize drugs.

Caffeine metabolism is a good example, the CYP3A4 breaks down caffeine. Some people have a lot of CYP3A4 so they need more coffee to get a buzz since they break it down very fast. Those with genetically low levels of CYP3A4 are going to be more sensitive to coffee because caffeine levels will build up higher and more easily.


----------



## Cypionate

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, it can vary a bit from person to person due to individual differences in steroid metabolism. It's genetic, people are born with different enzyme activity levels that metabolize drugs.
> 
> Caffeine metabolism is a good example, the CYP3A4 breaks down caffeine. Some people have a lot of CYP3A4 so they need more coffee to get a buzz since they break it down very fast. Those with genetically low levels of CYP3A4 are going to be more sensitive to coffee because caffeine levels will build up higher and more easily.


 I have ADHD (Unsure if related) and seem to be fairly sensitive to caffeine, and also modafinil makes me feel like I've had too many coffees, can only take about 50mg or it's horrible


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Do you have access to any oral AAS? You can take those while you are a abroad if you pop them into a vitamin or supplement bottle.
> 
> That would be the #1 option, otherwise, i would extend the cycle another 2 weeks when you get back.
> 
> Can you lift while you are away?
> 
> If you curious about how your levels will look after 2 weeks, pop your numbers into steroidcalc.com


 Not gonna bother taking any orals, I always get problems with customs, I must look dodgy.

I'll still be lifting whilst I'm away.

I'll just restart the NPP once I'm back.

Thanks to you and Cypionate for the help.


----------



## ElChapo

Cypionate said:


> I have ADHD (Unsure if related) and seem to be fairly sensitive to caffeine, and also modafinil makes me feel like I've had too many coffees, can only take about 50mg or it's horrible


 You likely have the version of the gene that makes you produce less CYP3A4.

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs762551

You may also produce more adrenaline if you have the "worrier gene"

https://selfhacked.com/blog/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Not gonna bother taking any orals, I always get problems with customs, I must look dodgy.
> 
> I'll still be lifting whilst I'm away.
> 
> I'll just restart the NPP once I'm back.
> 
> Thanks to you and Cypionate for the help.


 No worries, the Test E should tide you over as the half life is fairly long.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Baka said:


> I think it helps things broken in your body , everywhere.
> 
> To me it's a miracle drug , totally worth it. I even thought of taking a maintenance dose all year long but the high RBC problems made me stop.
> 
> I'll only take it if I get injured , bone/joints or bad inflammation.
> 
> It even seemed like my hairline was healthier and wasn't shedding as much as normaly.


 Do you suspect it helped your shoulder due to inflammation?

I know im sort of repeating myself, heh, but im thinking of trying a cycle with it to help heal the last few inches of some stubborn injuries. Its pretty expensive stuff and I dont think my injuries are inflammation issues, so im not sure if tb500 is worth it?


----------



## Armitage Shanks

@ElChapo

On Promethease My top 4 or as below, which I am guessing aren't too good?

*rs1333049(C;C) 1.9x increased risk for coronary artery disease Magnitude 4*

*rs4307059(T;T) 1.42x risk of Autism Magnitude 3*

*rs53576(A;A) Lack of empathy Magnitude 3*

*gs285* *claimed to lose 2.5x as much weight on a low fat diet **Magnitude 2.5*

With the search for COMT or Monoamine all associated data provides a magnitude of zero , which indicates I have no worrier genes that stand out?

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Armitage Shanks said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> On Promethease My top 4 or as below, which I am guessing aren't too good?
> 
> *rs1333049(C;C) 1.9x increased risk for coronary artery disease Magnitude 4*
> 
> *rs4307059(T;T) 1.42x risk of Autism Magnitude 3*
> 
> *rs53576(A;A) Lack of empathy Magnitude 3*
> 
> *gs285* *claimed to lose 2.5x as much weight on a low fat diet **Magnitude 2.5*
> 
> With the search for COMT or Monoamine all associated data provides a magnitude of zero , which indicates I have no worrier genes that stand out?
> 
> Many thanks


 Everyone has a COMT and MAO SNP. The question is wether you have the Warrior or Worrier version of COMT and if you have any MAO at all.

Type in Warrior on the search bar and it should pop up. It should be rs4680


----------



## zariph

Can you feel tren E after first pin? A mate is doing tren e says he can already tell that he is on tren due to sweating but already also feel more pumped etc - he has only been on it for few days I think. I thought that ppl usually suggest that it start "working" after 3-4weeks as its enanthate?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Can you feel tren E after first pin? A mate is doing tren e says he can already tell that he is on tren due to sweating but already also feel more pumped etc - he has only been on it for few days I think. I thought that ppl usually suggest that it start "working" after 3-4weeks as its enanthate?


 It's possible that some effects kick in very fast due to non-genomic effects. This means that simply by having elevated levels, the body will respond. Most of AAS effects are "genomic" which means it needs to turn on certain genes before it kicks in, hence the delay in feeling the full effects. Androgens have both genomic and non-genomic effects.

When you think about something like coffee, the effect of waking you up is non-genomic, as it works through inhibiting adenosine action at the receptor, not switching genes on/off.


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo

I go boxing 3 days a week so I am only able to weight train 2 days. I'm struggling with getting everything done in the 2 days. Any recommendations on a routine for the 2 days that would include all muscle groups and maintain or progress with growth.

When I go boxing I train for 2 - 2.5 hours which is intense the whole session. Would glutamine and EAAs be a good idea to use along with electrolytes.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I go boxing 3 days a week so I am only able to weight train 2 days. I'm struggling with getting everything done in the 2 days. Any recommendations on a routine for the 2 days that would include all muscle groups and maintain or progress with growth.
> 
> When I go boxing I train for 2 - 2.5 hours which is intense the whole session. Would glutamine and EAAs be a good idea to use along with electrolytes.


 You can easily maintain with 2-3 hard sets per body part. A good two day split example:

Day 1:

Squat or leg press to failure 5-15 reps x 2-3 sets & Full ROM Weighted chin ups ( same rep/set range, this hits biceps and lats)

Day 2:

Bench press 5-15 reps x 2-3 sets & rows w/ barbell or cables/machine

Muscle groups only have to be hit once per week to maintain strength and mass. Higher reps and higher frequency can give you a little extra pump to the muscle, but this is purely sarcoplamic and temporary. It takes about 3-4 weeks of no training to start losing strength, but sometimes muscle will appear smaller sooner due to loss of sarcoplasm, this comes back when you start training.

Glutamine is garbage. EAAs or BCAA can help. A slight edge to EAAs but both are fine. 5-15 grams pre-workout or through training. Honestly though, Whey protein will do the same thing.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It's possible that some effects kick in very fast due to non-genomic effects. This means that simply by having elevated levels, the body will respond. Most of AAS effects are "genomic" which means it needs to turn on certain genes before it kicks in, hence the delay in feeling the full effects. Androgens have both genomic and non-genomic effects.
> 
> When you think about something like coffee, the effect of waking you up is non-genomic, as it works through inhibiting adenosine action at the receptor, not switching genes on/off.


 Oh nice thank you!

Have another questions if you dont mind - What happens if you inject with a needle thats too short to reach IM, like using insulin needles in quads even if you may not be lean enough to do that? Will it still be absorbed, or will it most likely run out when you pull needle back etc?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Oh nice thank you!
> 
> Have another questions if you dont mind - What happens if you inject with a needle thats too short to reach IM, like using insulin needles in quads even if you may not be lean enough to do that? Will it still be absorbed, or will it most likely run out when you pull needle back etc?


 It will go into the subcutaneous layer instead (the fatty layer). It will still be absorbed, but since the circulation to fat tissue is less than the muscle tissue, absorption is slower and bioavailability is lower. You will get lower peak levels but the half-life should be longer as the medication releases slower than IM.

You are also at increased risk of PIP and inflammation since the subq layer has more nerves. Subq is okay for low volume injections under .5 mL, higher volume in subq increases the risk of knots and pip. Test prop, DHB and other high PIP formulations are at higher risk of pip when subq injections are used.

I find that the best way to prevent PIP and leaking is to :

1. Minimize movement as much as possible, take a deep breath and steady the needle the whole time.

2. Count slowly to 20 seconds, this lets the oil settle into the muscle depot and reduces leaking which can lead to pip.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It will go into the subcutaneous layer instead (the fatty layer). It will still be absorbed, but since the circulation to fat tissue is less than the muscle tissue, absorption is slower and bioavailability is lower. You will get lower peak levels but the half-life should be longer as the medication releases slower than IM.
> 
> You are also at increased risk of PIP and inflammation since the subq layer has more nerves. Subq is okay for low volume injections under .5 mL, higher volume in subq increases the risk of knots and pip. Test prop, DHB and other high PIP formulations are at higher risk of pip when subq injections are used.
> 
> I find that the best way to prevent PIP and leaking is to :
> 
> 1. Minimize movement as much as possible, take a deep breath and steady the needle the whole time.
> 
> 2. Count slowly to 20 seconds, this lets the oil settle into the muscle depot and reduces leaking which can lead to pip.


 Thank you , often Im bleeding after pin and Im worried if any oil will get out aswell, even if it just might be vein that I went through, Im still worrying if it will waste anything?


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate. Been bulking for last 12 weeks or so, all was going well until last 3 weeks weight had stalled. Despite increasing calories each week it didn't budge. I ended up on 6200 cals on training days last week and still no budge in weight I figured something is wrong at 98.5kg that's way too much food. Like my body is just no processing the food whatsoever and just wasting it. Is that a thing?

Everything I eat is also tracked. It's like I hit a wall of a sudden, so I decided to drop calories down Into a defecit for the last 5 days. Hoping it would somehow maybe reset my body so I can crack on with bulking again.

What are your views on this? Any idea what could be going on? Also I didn't seem to be suffering any typical digestion issues


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you , often Im bleeding after pin and Im worried if any oil will get out aswell, even if it just might be vein that I went through, Im still worrying if it will waste anything?


 No, any leak will be an extremely minimal amount. Fill a syringe with water and see how many drops of water is a very small amount of total mL. Even a big leak will be almost nothing. It's nothing to worry about.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate. Been bulking for last 12 weeks or so, all was going well until last 3 weeks weight had stalled. Despite increasing calories each week it didn't budge. I ended up on 6200 cals on training days last week and still no budge in weight I figured something is wrong at 98.5kg that's way too much food. Like my body is just no processing the food whatsoever and just wasting it. Is that a thing?
> 
> Everything I eat is also tracked. It's like I hit a wall of a sudden, so I decided to drop calories down Into a defecit for the last 5 days. Hoping it would somehow maybe reset my body so I can crack on with bulking again.
> 
> What are your views on this? Any idea what could be going on? Also I didn't seem to be suffering any typical digestion issues


 Are you on any AAS because typically at 12 weeks it's normal for weight and mass to slow down.

How long were you on 6.2k calories with no weight changes?

How active are you outside the gym?

What's your approximate height/weight and body fat %


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Are you on any AAS because typically at 12 weeks it's normal for weight and mass to slow down
> 
> 500mg test 200mg tren each week
> 
> How long were you on 6.2k calories with no weight changes?
> 
> One week, before that 6000 for one week and week before that 5800. I increased 200cals each week after the weight stalled just around 4 week ago. Up until that point weight was going up on 5600cals to 99kg then it dropped to 98.5 which I where I am now despite more food
> 
> How active are you outside the gym?
> 
> Fairly active alot of cycling, physical wwork on feet 8hours with lot of Lifting. Train 4 days a week
> 
> What's your approximate height/weight and body fat %
> 
> 5'9 not sure on bf all abs are visible still at night time, shoulder arms legs and chest quite vascular however waist has gone up around 2 inches since start of bulk


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> ElChapo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you on any AAS because typically at 12 weeks it's normal for weight and mass to slow down
> 
> 500mg test 200mg tren each week
> 
> How long were you on 6.2k calories with no weight changes?
> 
> One week, before that 6000 for one week and week before that 5800. I increased 200cals each week after the weight stalled just around 4 week ago. Up until that point weight was going up on 5600cals to 99kg then it dropped to 98.5 which I where I am now despite more food
> 
> How active are you outside the gym?
> 
> Fairly active alot of cycling, physical wwork on feet 8hours with lot of Lifting. Train 4 days a week
> 
> What's your approximate height/weight and body fat %
> 
> 5'9 not sure on bf all abs are visible still at night time, shoulder arms legs and chest quite vascular however waist has gone up around 2 inches since start of bulk
Click to expand...

 What's your weight? If you are prioritizing mass gaining, you need to cut back on cardio. Cardio turns off some anabolic processes in the body. A little bit is good though.

Also, are you increasing the weight and reps on a weekly basis on all your lifts. It's important to add weight and reps to force the body to build new muscle. The best physiques of all time were built with progressive overload.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> What's your weight? If you are prioritizing mass gaining, you need to cut back on cardio. Cardio turns off some anabolic processes in the body. A little bit is good though.
> 
> Also, are you increasing the weight and reps on a weekly basis on all your lifts. It's important to add weight and reps to force the body to build new muscle. The best physiques of all time were built with progressive overload.


 Weighing 98.5kg. Weights in gym is still continuing to go up each week, there's not been a week yet where I've not increased the poundage or reps so that's going well. Strongest I've been. Even this last week in a defecit I've continued to get stronger in my workouts just bodyweight isn't budging


----------



## Rob27

Hi mate @ElChapo

Recently just started my cruise after my blast and I've started to come out in a few spots, especially when I'm sweating.

When I wake in the mornings theres hardly no spots at all but when I'm at work and start sweating (construction worker) they start to flare up and the same during my gym sessions after work. Had bloods done during my blast (600mg test e and var last 4 weeks) and my e2 came back at 229nmol which isn't far out of the nmol range about 80nmol iirc. Currently running 160mg test e every 7 days cruise/cut started Monday.

Can you recommend any soaps or creams to use while showering/bathing to help? I don't want to go down the accutane route as theres only a few across my chest and back and only flare up when sweating, I've never suffered from any acne or spots before on cycle or off cycle or through my teenage years I've been pretty lucky in that aspect. Any recommendations will be appreciated,

Cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Weighing 98.5kg. Weights in gym is still continuing to go up each week, there's not been a week yet where I've not increased the poundage or reps so that's going well. Strongest I've been. Even this last week in a defecit I've continued to get stronger in my workouts just bodyweight isn't budging


 That's a good sign, i would cut back on the cardio since you are already very active through work. Cardio turns off anabolic processes in the body. I bet your weight would start going up if you cut out most if not all of the cardio.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi mate @ElChapo
> 
> Recently just started my cruise after my blast and I've started to come out in a few spots, especially when I'm sweating.
> 
> When I wake in the mornings theres hardly no spots at all but when I'm at work and start sweating (construction worker) they start to flare up and the same during my gym sessions after work. Had bloods done during my blast (600mg test e and var last 4 weeks) and my e2 came back at 229nmol which isn't far out of the nmol range about 80nmol iirc. Currently running 160mg test e every 7 days cruise/cut started Monday.
> 
> Can you recommend any soaps or creams to use while showering/bathing to help? I don't want to go down the accutane route as theres only a few across my chest and back and only flare up when sweating, I've never suffered from any acne or spots before on cycle or off cycle or through my teenage years I've been pretty lucky in that aspect. Any recommendations will be appreciated,
> 
> Cheers!


 The three best natural remedies that effective for acne:

1. Zinc 30-50 mg daily. Take with a meal to avoid upset stomach/nausea.

2. Tanning. You can use a tanning bed x 3 per week.

3. Finish your shower with cold water, this helps seal pores, cuts down inflammation, and activates immune system.

Bonus: Some people find success using topical nizoral shampoo % 2 for 5 minutes on acne spots.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> That's a good sign, i would cut back on the cardio since you are already very active through work. Cardio turns off anabolic processes in the body. I bet your weight would start going up if you cut out most if not all of the cardio.


 Thank you mate. So do you think I should come back out of this mini cut and get back to bulking minus most of the cardio.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, any leak will be an extremely minimal amount. Fill a syringe with water and see how many drops of water is a very small amount of total mL. Even a big leak will be almost nothing. It's nothing to worry about.


 NIce mate, I really appreciate the time you take to answer all the questions, seems like you have most answers.

-If I dont have time to eat before training(doing early morning), would you recommend drinking proteinshake before workout and maybe drink some EAA+HBCD intra, or what would you suggest?

-Is it true that when bulking on tren, the amount of cals you have to eat has to be increased? if normally bulking on 4k, should I be doing 5k on tren?

A mate is doing anadrol and is 1 week in, his strength hasnt increased at all, he got better pumps and got some side(nosebleeds, lethargy) , do some ppl just respond this way to anadrol or should everyone see increase in strength after a week?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Thank you mate. So do you think I should come back out of this mini cut and get back to bulking minus most of the cardio.


 Yes, if your goal is still building muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> NIce mate, I really appreciate the time you take to answer all the questions, seems like you have most answers.
> 
> -If I dont have time to eat before training(doing early morning), would you recommend drinking proteinshake before workout and maybe drink some EAA+HBCD intra, or what would you suggest?
> 
> -Is it true that when bulking on tren, the amount of cals you have to eat has to be increased? if normally bulking on 4k, should I be doing 5k on tren?
> 
> A mate is doing anadrol and is 1 week in, his strength hasnt increased at all, he got better pumps and got some side(nosebleeds, lethargy) , do some ppl just respond this way to anadrol or should everyone see increase in strength after a week?


 Whey protein will do the job and will elevate your EAA and bcaa levels through your workout. Remember that protein is just a chain of EAA and BCAA.

No, the tren thing is a myth. Calorie intake and requirements don't change.

I would give and oral 2-3 weeks at least to fully kick in, your friend should be adding weight little by little each workout. The main driver of strength gains and muscle gains are calories and progressive overload.


----------



## swole troll

Do you believe there is any notable benefit to intraworkout eaa's or is this covered adequately by a pre workout meal containing protein ?

Also if I was interested in keeping post workout cardio in year round would you reccomend drinking a protein shake in between weights and cardio if trying to gain muscle ?

(When I'm cutting I go straight from weights to cardio since I want blood glucose levels to be low)


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

We read all the time baiut rest periods for hypertrophy, and 60-90 secs, drop sets, pushing blood, time under tension etc are all best for growth.

Then you hear, rear, recover fully and then hit the next set as hard as possible. This doing more damage as you have recovered. Thus stress, then recover when at home, bigger muscles, repeat.

I found for strength that five mins was ideal, that was 1-4 reps of my absolute heaviest I could lift.

What's best for growth? Unless that can't be answered.

Cheers.

Lastly. Next bulk is test 600. Npp 400 per week and winny 100mg (daily). Twelve weeks then drop to trt. All checks from bloods to heart and BP are fine. Mini cut/prime diet for three weeks prior to this as well as donating blood.

Would that be sufficient as its been a while since I hit the weights hard to grow due to an injury.


----------



## RoadToRecovery247

@El ChapoChapo

Question on clomid/nolva.

Would you expect an immediate increase in LH/FSH following the administration of these drugs?

I have been on cycle for 8 years and after 4 weeks from last injection with 1 week of clomid/nolva my LH levels are over range - is this a good sign or would everyone show elevated LH levels irrespective of length of shutdown? Or would you still expect a slow weekly/monthly climb in levels.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Do you believe there is any notable benefit to intraworkout eaa's or is this covered adequately by a pre workout meal containing protein ?
> 
> Also if I was interested in keeping post workout cardio in year round would you reccomend drinking a protein shake in between weights and cardio if trying to gain muscle ?
> 
> (When I'm cutting I go straight from weights to cardio since I want blood glucose levels to be low)


 The pre-workout meal EAA is still in the blood stream during the workout. The supplement industry is a cash cow, so they like to push everything, and they use famous bodybuilders to facilitate that sales pitch, it works extremely well. They are not necessary unless you are training fasted, or have poor protein intake.

It's not necessary, especially if the cardio is light and limited in time. Your body will be primed to absorb post-workout protein and carbs after your weights/cardio. If you are training fasted, i would consider the EAA or BCAA pre-workout.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> We read all the time baiut rest periods for hypertrophy, and 60-90 secs, drop sets, pushing blood, time under tension etc are all best for growth.
> 
> Then you hear, rear, recover fully and then hit the next set as hard as possible. This doing more damage as you have recovered. Thus stress, then recover when at home, bigger muscles, repeat.
> 
> I found for strength that five mins was ideal, that was 1-4 reps of my absolute heaviest I could lift.
> 
> What's best for growth? Unless that can't be answered.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Lastly. Next bulk is test 600. Npp 400 per week and winny 100mg (daily). Twelve weeks then drop to trt. All checks from bloods to heart and BP are fine. Mini cut/prime diet for three weeks prior to this as well as donating blood.
> 
> Would that be sufficient as its been a while since I hit the weights hard to grow due to an injury.


 Yes, for strength, 5 minutes is ideal as proven by the studies and the experience of many powerlifters. 3 minutes is the minimum.

When it comes to higher rep and volume workouts, shorter rest periods challenge the metabolic function of the muscle and tend to work much better.

Ideally, you would use both heavy, compound exercise with a focus on strength (bench, squat, deadlift) AND also higher rep/volume training for individual muscle groups (biceps, shoulders, abs). With an emphasis on progressive overload and caloric surplus. This formula has worked for most bodybuilding legends (Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, Franco, Yates, etc)

What's best for growth is a combination of the two. The formula for growth is Nutrition (Caloric surplus), Progressive overload (Increase rep and/or weights), Recovery (Rest between sets and days off). AAS just make these work faster, more efficiently and above one's genetic limit. You still need those three basic ingredients for optimal results.

This is why it's good to have a solid base of training as a natural lifter, so you learn the basics and can apply them once you add AAS. Many lifters get VERY subpar results with AAS because they lack the proper knowledge and experience with training, eating, and recovery. Some are lucky and get away with it due to good genetics and response. There's a lot of myth's out there like tren will torch fat and give you a six pack with minimal work, it's just bullshit.

That sounds like a very solid stack, if you eat your surplus and focus on getting stronger or increase reps on all your lifts, from bench press to bicep curls with GOOD form, you will gain muscle that you can keep with TRT dose (Within your genetic limits)


----------



## ElChapo

RoadToRecovery247 said:


> @El ChapoChapo
> 
> Question on clomid/nolva.
> 
> Would you expect an immediate increase in LH/FSH following the administration of these drugs?
> 
> I have been on cycle for 8 years and after 4 weeks from last injection with 1 week of clomid/nolva my LH levels are over range - is this a good sign or would everyone show elevated LH levels irrespective of length of shutdown? Or would you still expect a slow weekly/monthly climb in levels.


 Yeah, a surge in LH/FSH is expected and rapid. Research shows within a week there are big increases and then a plateau.

What is your goal? Full recovery and discontinuation of all hormone therapy or fertility?


----------



## RoadToRecovery247

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, a surge in LH/FSH is expected and rapid. Research shows within a week there are big increases and then a plateau.
> 
> What is your goal? Full recovery and discontinuation of all hormone therapy or fertility?


 Both, but in order of priority - full recovery and discontinuation then fertility.

I'm 27 years old, if that helps. After 8 years of a pretty much constant 500mg/week of test I'm not sure if a full recovery + fertility is even possible :mellow:


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Whey protein will do the job and will elevate your EAA and bcaa levels through your workout. Remember that protein is just a chain of EAA and BCAA.
> 
> No, the tren thing is a myth. Calorie intake and requirements don't change.
> 
> I would give and oral 2-3 weeks at least to fully kick in, your friend should be adding weight little by little each workout. The main driver of strength gains and muscle gains are calories and progressive overload.


 thx, you think adding dextrin during workout would benifit at all, if I only have a proteinshake pre?

Will tren use everything you eat, so lets say you can bulk on 4k, but if you increase to 5k will you just store more fat or will tren somehow use it for building/energy? Or will tren not act in a speciel way compared to other aas at all?

Okay, guess I read too much on internet about anadrol instantly increases lift massively lol


----------



## ElChapo

RoadToRecovery247 said:


> Both, but in order of priority - full recovery and discontinuation then fertility.
> 
> I'm 27 years old, if that helps. After 8 years of a pretty much constant 500mg/week of test I'm not sure if a full recovery + fertility is even possible :mellow:


 Likelyhood of recovery is very poor with your history of use, especially if you are past age 35.

Fertility might be possible though, do you have access to sperm analysis?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thx, you think adding dextrin during workout would benifit at all, if I only have a proteinshake pre?
> 
> Will tren use everything you eat, so lets say you can bulk on 4k, but if you increase to 5k will you just store more fat or will tren somehow use it for building/energy? Or will tren not act in a speciel way compared to other aas at all?
> 
> Okay, guess I read too much on internet about anadrol instantly increases lift massively lol


 No, dextrin is pretty useless.

No, as i said, tren does not magically make you not get fat on a surplus. That's complete bullshit. It's a myth.

There's a lot of bullshit on the internet.


----------



## Matt6210

@El Chapo what's the difference between maltodextrin and dextrose?

ive been following an insulin pre workout protocol that says maltodextrin pre workout straight after slin, and dextrose during workout, I started last week but didn't have any dextrose, so just used maltodextrin during as well, I now have dextrose but just wondered what the difference was.

shake 1 is pre and shake 2 is during training.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt6210 said:


> @El Chapo what's the difference between maltodextrin and dextrose?
> 
> ive been following an insulin pre workout protocol that says maltodextrin pre workout straight after slin, and dextrose during workout, I started last week but didn't have any dextrose, so just used maltodextrin during as well, I now have dextrose but just wondered what the difference was.
> 
> shake 1 is pre and shake 2 is during training.
> 
> View attachment 173187


 Maltodextrin is absorbed more slowly, dextrose is more similar to glucose and is absorbed right away.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, dextrin is pretty useless.
> 
> No, as i said, tren does not magically make you not get fat on a surplus. That's complete bullshit. It's a myth.
> 
> There's a lot of bullshit on the internet.


 okay will do do shake prework then!

Will running SD last 4 weeks of cycle be benificial, or should it rather be used at start of cycle?

Aromasin seems way better than arimidex on paper, but why do many people still use arimidex? I dont see any benifits to it at all?


----------



## TURBS

zariph said:


> but why do many people still use arimidex?


 Cheaper and usually easier to source.


----------



## Simon90

What bf% do you recommend to stop bulking and start cutting for optimal results?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay will do do shake prework then!
> 
> Will running SD last 4 weeks of cycle be benificial, or should it rather be used at start of cycle?
> 
> Aromasin seems way better than arimidex on paper, but why do many people still use arimidex? I dont see any benifits to it at all?


 You will get best results running it for the full cycle. People waste the potential of orals by running them only 2-4 weeks thinking liver toxicity is a serious danger, it is not unless you abuse alcohol or liver toxic drugs, or have pre-existing liver issues. I would run SD throughout the whole cycle.

Aromasin vs arimidex is overrated. Use whichever one is easiest to source and as little possible, most people end up killing their E2 and regret it.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> What bf% do you recommend to stop bulking and start cutting for optimal results?


 Stay under 15%, main reasons being you will look fairly aesthetic year round and carrying too much fat reduces insulin sensitivity.

Being 15% at most means you aren't spending half a year cutting just to get lean again.

Cutting and bulking should keep you in the 10-15% range for best results. You will look and feel best and be a short cut away from getting lean after bulking. There is zero benefits to "dirty bulking" unless you like spending 6 months to a year getting lean again, only to repeat the whole process again. That gets old fast. I recommend a small surplus of 250-500 calories per day max.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Stay under 15%, main reasons being you will look fairly aesthetic year round and carrying too much fat reduces insulin sensitivity.
> 
> Being 15% at most means you aren't spending half a year cutting just to get lean again.
> 
> Cutting and bulking should keep you in the 10-15% range for best results. You will look and feel best and be a short cut away from getting lean after bulking. There is zero benefits to "dirty bulking" unless you like spending 6 months to a year getting lean again, only to repeat the whole process again. That gets old fast. I recommend a small surplus of 250-500 calories per day max.


 Thank you as always mate. Makes perfect sense. That's alot of time wasted which can be used to grow


----------



## Simon90

I'm sure I seen similar question on here but can't find it.

On 500mg test would muscle loss be possible in a 1500cal defecit (coming from food alone). I seen an article on dieting on aas about Eating mostly protein 1.5-2g/lb, a small amount of fat between 25-35g and only having carbs post workout on training days only at around 100g and no carbs on rest day.

Could dieting like this be a recipe for muscle loss?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You will get best results running it for the full cycle. People waste the potential of orals by running them only 2-4 weeks thinking liver toxicity is a serious danger, it is not unless you abuse alcohol or liver toxic drugs, or have pre-existing liver issues. I would run SD throughout the whole cycle.
> 
> Aromasin vs arimidex is overrated. Use whichever one is easiest to source and as little possible, most people end up killing their E2 and regret it.


 okay how much will arimidex tank lipids if I have to do 1mg eod?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I'm sure I seen similar question on here but can't find it.
> 
> On 500mg test would muscle loss be possible in a 1500cal defecit (coming from food alone). I seen an article on dieting on aas about Eating mostly protein 1.5-2g/lb, a small amount of fat between 25-35g and only having carbs post workout on training days only at around 100g and no carbs on rest day.
> 
> Could dieting like this be a recipe for muscle loss?


 A 1,500 calorie diet is relative. For one person it may be only a 500 deficit and for another a 1,500 deficit. It depends on your maintenance/TDEE calories. I never recommend going higher than 1,000 calorie deficit. This already provides rapid fat loss and can be tough for many to stick through.

You only need the minimal protein intake of 1-1.5 grams per lbs of Lean Body Mass, not total weight. The rest should be carbs. Moderate-high carb intake will keep glycogen stores full and leptin levels high. This will keep strength and metabolism optimal.

The best way to ensure minimal to no muscle loss it to focus on maintaining strength and reps, if you lose neither by the end of the cut, there's a good chance you lost little to no muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay how much will arimidex tank lipids if I have to do 1mg eod?


 1 MG EOD is too much 90% of the time. You are going to cook your E2 and feel like garbage for a while.

The usual dose would be 0.5-1 mg per week but it depends on your testosterone dosage and your level of aromatization.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 1 MG EOD is too much 90% of the time. You are going to cook your E2 and feel like garbage for a while.
> 
> The usual dose would be 0.5-1 mg per week but it depends on your testosterone dosage and your level of aromatization.


 well on 600test400deca I did 25mg aromasin EOD, but is arimex stronger somehow?


----------



## Whoremoan1

i read this on another forum but its really got me worried as ive never heard of this before

but is it possible to never get a hard and or semi hard erection for the rest of your life and complete loss of sex drive/ libido due to steroid use ?

as in ... theres nothing that can fix it ?

dave palumbo always preaches everything (within reason) can be fixed... and that kind of made me feel more at ease, but this guy saying on another forum that he has no interest for sex and can never get hard (Can sometimes get semi hard) no matter what he does or takes - really stresses me out haha

what are your thoughts?


----------



## Rob27

Hi mate @ElChapo

Currently on a cut and my training split is

Monday- chest

Tuesday -back

Wednesday- rest

Thursday - bis and tris

Friday - shoulders

Saturday- legs/abs

Sunday -rest.

Do you think it would be beneficial to add more rest days, for example below or stick to what I'm doing now which is above.

Monday- chest and tris

Tuesday -rest

Wednesday - back and bis

Thursday - rest

Friday- shoulders

Saturday-legs/abs

Sunday- rest.

Cheers!


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hi Mate,

Just wondering your thoughts on the following cycle for pure mass gains, will be 175 at 8%

1200mg test, 150mg anadrol ED, 6iu gh (pharma), 40iu lantus per day,

Do you think this cycle could be improved in terms of pure mass with minimal fat gain


----------



## TALBOTL

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> Just wondering your thoughts on the following cycle for pure mass gains, will be 175 at 8%
> 
> 1200mg test, 150mg anadrol ED, 6iu gh (pharma), 40iu lantus per day,
> 
> Do you think this cycle could be improved in terms of pure mass with minimal fat gain


 I read studies that 100mg yields exactly the same as 150mg where Anadrol is concerned so it becomes the law of diminishing returns, saves your liver and a few quid if nothing else - as for the rest of the cycle that's above my pay grade.

LT


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> well on 600test400deca I did 25mg aromasin EOD, but is arimex stronger somehow?


 Are you running 600 test/400 deca for the adex EOD?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> i read this on another forum but its really got me worried as ive never heard of this before
> 
> but is it possible to never get a hard and or semi hard erection for the rest of your life and complete loss of sex drive/ libido due to steroid use ?
> 
> as in ... theres nothing that can fix it ?
> 
> dave palumbo always preaches everything (within reason) can be fixed... and that kind of made me feel more at ease, but this guy saying on another forum that he has no interest for sex and can never get hard (Can sometimes get semi hard) no matter what he does or takes - really stresses me out haha
> 
> what are your thoughts?


 100% bullshit unless you caused permanent vascular damage through steroid abuse, almost impossible for that to happen to such an extent that erections would be gone permanently. That is the only possible mechanism for this to happen and it's extremely unlikely.

Now if someone runs AAS for a long time and then quits, and their natural testosterone levels are cooked, then yeah, you might have erectile dysfuntion if you do not bring your levels back to normal.

There's a lot weirdos and crazies on forums, you should disregard at least 90% of what you read online. As the saying goes "Believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear".


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi mate @ElChapo
> 
> Currently on a cut and my training split is
> 
> Monday- chest
> 
> Tuesday -back
> 
> Wednesday- rest
> 
> Thursday - bis and tris
> 
> Friday - shoulders
> 
> Saturday- legs/abs
> 
> Sunday -rest.
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial to add more rest days, for example below or stick to what I'm doing now which is above.
> 
> Monday- chest and tris
> 
> Tuesday -rest
> 
> Wednesday - back and bis
> 
> Thursday - rest
> 
> Friday- shoulders
> 
> Saturday-legs/abs
> 
> Sunday- rest.
> 
> Cheers!


 Technically, you have more than two rest days since you aren't directly training certain body parts on some days. As long as you are recovering properly and progressing and you like the routine, there is no need to change your setup.

If you are plateauing or not recovering from your workouts, then you need to go back to the drawing board and add more rest days.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Are you running 600 test/400 deca for the adex EOD?


 Oh sorry, I ran 600test400deca 12.5mg aromasin ED

Now thinking of doing 400test 200tren, and will try use adex this time, and thought I had to use 0.5mg ed which is why im asking if it tanks lipids too much?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> Just wondering your thoughts on the following cycle for pure mass gains, will be 175 at 8%
> 
> 1200mg test, 150mg anadrol ED, 6iu gh (pharma), 40iu lantus per day,
> 
> Do you think this cycle could be improved in terms of pure mass with minimal fat gain


 Gains should be excellent as long as you eat enough calories and make sure to continously push your weights and reps up. Don't just pump for hours, try to get all your lifts up in weight and/or reps, this is what drives muscle growth.

If you are running lantus, make sure you eat every couple of hours or you risk going hypoglycemic.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> Gains should be excellent as long as you eat enough calories and make sure to continously push your weights and reps up. Don't just pump for hours, try to get all your lifts up in weight and/or reps, this is what drives muscle growth.
> 
> If you are running lantus, make sure you eat every couple of hours or you risk going hypoglycemic.


 @ElChapo

I was gonna ask would it be worth just doing fast acting? I just get scared of hypo when i sleep, I usually eat 3500 when bulking do you think pushing to 4000 would be reasonable


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Oh sorry, I ran 600test400deca 12.5mg aromasin ED
> 
> Now thinking of doing 400test 200tren, and will try use adex this time, and thought I had to use 0.5mg ed which is why im asking if it tanks lipids too much?


 1-2 mg per WEEK should be more than enough on 400 mg test depending on how much you aromatize. It's better to take a little less than you need. Elevated E2 is many times better than crashed E2 for libido, health, well-being and performance.

Don't worry about lipids so much on cycle, no matter what, they are going to be affected. It's not a big deal in the short term and temporary. Now, if you're lipids are crashed all year, for a long time, then you can start worrying.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I was gonna ask would it be worth just doing fast acting? I just get scared of hypo when i sleep, I usually eat 3500 when bulking do you think pushing to 4000 would be reasonable


 Your calorie intake target is dictated by your TDEE and how lean you are trying to stay. I usually recommend 250-500 calorie surplus, anecdotally, running GH seems to keep gains leaner so you might get away with higher intake of food with less spill over to fat.

https://sailrabbit.com/bmr/ - You can estimate your TDEE here and get a general idea.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 1-2 mg per WEEK should be more than enough on 400 mg test depending on how much you aromatize. It's better to take a little less than you need. Elevated E2 is many times better than crashed E2 for libido, health, well-being and performance.
> 
> Don't worry about lipids so much on cycle, no matter what, they are going to be affected. It's not a big deal in the short term and temporary. Now, if you're lipids are crashed all year, for a long time, then you can start worrying.


 Okay thank you, on 600test 400deca I did 12.5mg aromasin ED, is this high you think compared to "normal"?


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> Your calorie intake target is dictated by your TDEE and how lean you are trying to stay. I usually recommend 250-500 calorie surplus, anecdotally, running GH seems to keep gains leaner so you might get away with higher intake of food with less spill over to fat.
> 
> https://sailrabbit.com/bmr/ - You can estimate your TDEE here and get a general idea.


 @ElChapo

Thanks man that's what I was thinking I never struggle to get in cals, do you recommend slow acting or fast acting insulin? also is eating fat during active time a myth? or true


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay thank you, on 600test 400deca I did 12.5mg aromasin ED, is this high you think compared to "normal"?


 It depends on how much you aromatize, E2 control is complicated because everyone has different rates of aromatization. That might be an okay amount for that much AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thanks man that's what I was thinking I never struggle to get in cals, do you recommend slow acting or fast acting insulin? also is eating fat during active time a myth? or true


 Fast acting is the tried and proven form and allows you finer control.

Generally, i recommend low fat regardless as it's the most useless macro we consume. Carbs and protein are the building blocks of muscle and the fuel we use for training. Minimal fat is just their for flavor and nutrient absorption and very little is needed.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It depends on how much you aromatize, E2 control is complicated because everyone has different rates of aromatization. That might be an okay amount for that much AAS.


 Sounds good, will do 0.5mg adex twice a week when I do test/tren(pnning twice a week so will take ai same day?)

- Atm diet is a lot of rice, chicken, vegetables, but Im only getting around 40gram fat total daily, total amount cal i 4.5k - should I up the fat or will 30-40 gram be fine?


----------



## DORIAN

Hi looking in to co q10, for heart health, how many MG a day would you recommend? Cheers mate


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Sounds good, will do 0.5mg adex twice a week when I do test/tren(pnning twice a week so will take ai same day?)
> 
> - Atm diet is a lot of rice, chicken, vegetables, but Im only getting around 40gram fat total daily, total amount cal i 4.5k - should I up the fat or will 30-40 gram be fine?


 30-40 gram is plenty.

You can take the AI the same day, makes it easier to remember.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Hi looking in to co q10, for heart health, how many MG a day would you recommend? Cheers mate


 100-300 mg, consume with a meal that contains fat. The best time is usually after your heaviest meal or dinner. It is fat soluble so it needs some fat for optimal absorption.


----------



## Simon90

DORIAN said:


> Hi looking in to co q10, for heart health, how many MG a day would you recommend? Cheers mate


 Is this a supplement worth taking?


----------



## DORIAN

Simon90 said:


> Is this a supplement worth taking?





Simon90 said:


> Is this a supplement worth taking?


 It seems to be yes mate


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> 100-300 mg, consume with a meal that contains fat. The best time is usually after your heaviest meal or dinner. It is fat soluble so it needs some fat for optimal absorption.


 Do you personally use it/rate it thanks ?


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> 100% bullshit unless you caused permanent vascular damage through steroid abuse, almost impossible for that to happen to such an extent that erections would be gone permanently. That is the only possible mechanism for this to happen and it's extremely unlikely.
> 
> Now if someone runs AAS for a long time and then quits, and their natural testosterone levels are cooked, then yeah, you might have erectile dysfuntion if you do not bring your levels back to normal.
> 
> There's a lot weirdos and crazies on forums, you should disregard at least 90% of what you read online. As the saying goes "Believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear".


 ahhh thank you and i agree,, i think (from what i can gather) in this guys case he thinks its because hes abused tren and never comes off testosterone, i think hes raised and lowered test and kicked tren off a long time ago but nothing helped..... he said all of hes bloods are in check ... do you think he just needs to add hcg ? either that or its dopamine related - and would there be any ways to tackle that ?( possibly l - tyrosine ? or something else?)

ive had times where my libido dipped and i added hcg and its always worked for me

is there a mechanism to the whole adding hcg to restore 'libido' ? i was thinking maybe if you cycle for long periods, other hormones crash that test alone wont cover ( dhea, lh, rh etc) ? and hcg raises them giving more balance to the whole endocrine sytem ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

What are the best ways to keep BP stable on a cycle / cruise dosage ?

Apart from low intensity cardio 3-6 times a week , and good diet .

Also , test base as a pre workout make me feel really good/confident , I used it 1 year ago at 50mg before going out because how great it made me feel.
How do you explain this ? it's not like the oral Halo who make you cocky in a bad way , test base just made me feel great and a boost in confidence , less worries.


----------



## Andro25

What is your position about frontloading (testosterone)?

I am aware that the "kick in" is about the gene expression and frontloading is not going to change that. But get higher serum level faster I think may have some influences. (I'm particullary interested about strength).

Some other road of thinking are opposed to that because you do not experiment the "taper up" that brake the homeostasis they said. But I'm also aware that there is no down regulation so I think this may be bullshit and have higher serum level is better.


----------



## u2pride

ElChapo said:


> 30-40 gram is plenty.
> 
> You can take the AI the same day, makes it easier to remember.


 @El Chapo could you give me any links about minimum fat daily?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Is this a supplement worth taking?


 It can be, anecdotally people see a subtle increase in energy. As you age, you tend to produce less of it.

https://examine.com/supplements/coenzyme-q10/

If one is on statins or has a family history of heart disease, its not a bad idea.

Fun fact: Animal hearts are rich in coq10 and are a rich dietary source.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> Do you personally use it/rate it thanks ?


 I do have it in my stack. I try to keep my supplement stack as minimal as possible.

It's

1. Multivitamin ( Now foods True balance )

2. Vitamin K2 (MK7 Jarrows or Life extension)

3. Vitamin D3 (5K IU except for summer time)

4. Pycnogenol (Healthy origins or Now foods)

5. Meriva curcumin ( Jarrow )

6. Coq10 (Kirkland or Qunol )

Taken with dinner for optimal absorption. Big, fattier meals promote higher absorption due to slower intestinal transit and fat soluble nature of most of the supplements.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> ahhh thank you and i agree,, i think (from what i can gather) in this guys case he thinks its because hes abused tren and never comes off testosterone, i think hes raised and lowered test and kicked tren off a long time ago but nothing helped..... he said all of hes bloods are in check ... do you think he just needs to add hcg ? either that or its dopamine related - and would there be any ways to tackle that ?( possibly l - tyrosine ? or something else?)
> 
> ive had times where my libido dipped and i added hcg and its always worked for me
> 
> is there a mechanism to the whole adding hcg to restore 'libido' ? i was thinking maybe if you cycle for long periods, other hormones crash that test alone wont cover ( dhea, lh, rh etc) ? and hcg raises them giving more balance to the whole endocrine sytem ?


 Yeah, we dont know if this guy is

A. Lying

B. Using bunk testosterone or not controlling E2

C. Has some other underlying physiological or psycholigical issue.

Erections are very complex, they involve not only the endocrine system via testosterone, DHT and E2, but also the central nervous system via dopamine and serotonin, and the vascular system via penial artery/vein circulation.

Don't forget the mental/psychological component of erections. Anxiety and stress can cause ED as well.

The best way to diagnose ED cause is to get a penile doppler scan. They inject caverject directly into the penins, a prostaglandin that strongly activates an erection, then they do imaging of the blood circulation to and from the penis. This lets you seperate the physical/vascular ED from the endocrine or psychological form of the disease.

There are LH and FSH receptors that respond to HCG, these are still kind of a mystery which tells you how little we really know about the human body.

Anecdotally, many people say hcg increases libido, it may be working through these receptors, it could also be placebo.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are the best ways to keep BP stable on a cycle / cruise dosage ?
> 
> Apart from low intensity cardio 3-6 times a week , and good diet .
> 
> Also , test base as a pre workout make me feel really good/confident , I used it 1 year ago at 50mg before going out because how great it made me feel.
> How do you explain this ? it's not like the oral Halo who make you cocky in a bad way , test base just made me feel great and a boost in confidence , less worries.


 Slightly elevated BP i wouldn't worry about. If it goes as high as 140/90 mmhg its okay, as long as its not year round.

High BP will damage your vision, kidney function and heart overtime. The worst outcome is blindness, stroke and dependencd on dialysis machines. This takes many years of elevated BP though, usually decades.

If it goes over 140/90 on cycle and E2 and hematocrit are under control, a low dose beta blocker is my go-to recommendation. They are fairly mild in terms of sides.

Test base might create this feeling because of the strong spike in serum test and metabolites, could also be placebo. Some of these things are a mystery.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> What is your position about frontloading (testosterone)?
> 
> I am aware that the "kick in" is about the gene expression and frontloading is not going to change that. But get higher serum level faster I think may have some influences. (I'm particullary interested about strength).
> 
> Some other road of thinking are opposed to that because you do not experiment the "taper up" that brake the homeostasis they said. But I'm also aware that there is no down regulation so I think this may be bullshit and have higher serum level is better.


 On paper it should work, in reality it's 50/50. Some feel it works, others do not. I don't see the harm in front loading.

You are better off running an oral at the start or through out the full cycle to get results and the "on" feeling sooner.

Tapering is 100% waste of time garbage. Bodybuilders love overcomplicating things. Simple is better 90% of the time.


----------



## ElChapo

u2pride said:


> @El Chapo could you give me any links about minimum fat daily?
> 
> Thanks


 I don't have any, but the date shows 50 grams is optimal for stimulating natural testosterone and you only need around 14 grams per meal to absorb vitamin D and fat soluble vitamins.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 30-40 gram is plenty.
> 
> You can take the AI the same day, makes it easier to remember.


 Ah okay, how low can you actually go on fats? Is it only when cutting that you need higher fats?

-I will do AI every pin day thx


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Ah okay, how low can you actually go on fats? Is it only when cutting that you need higher fats?
> 
> -I will do AI every pin day thx


 You will always get a trace and minimal amount of fats through all your foods unless all you eat is rice cakes. It's a macro that is not important to keep track of. Just focus most of your time and energy on hitting your calories, minimum protein and fill the rest with carbs. People waste too much time and energy obsessing over macros, it seems to be the new fad.


----------



## woolymaggot

ElChapo said:


> Sounds like you need a training/diet break. 1-2 weeks at maintenance will help, using stimulants for a long time can do that sometimes too and when you stop using them, there will be a crash proportionate to how much you were using.
> 
> Have you tested your thyroid hormones?


 I've taken on the advice and stopped all training.

I've gone to maintenance but also switched my macros a bit too include a slightly higher amount of carbs. My diet is normally close to keto and carbs are all high fibrous. I've switched some to easier digested carbs (medium grain brown rice and potatoes) to ease my system.

The fatigue has been that bad that couldn't walk down the street without feeling like I wanted to lie down.

My TSH came back in normal range. I know it isn't definitive and I've no idea where in the normal range but will find out. Last time my TSH was low normal which I'm guessing would indicate high normal thyroid but appreciate it isn't that simple.

I've lowered my caffeine intake and no stims.

Sleeping 8hrs every night. Water, nutrients etc should all be optimised for recovery.

Compounds tweaked ever so slightly, test remains at 300mg but may drop to TRT if persists. Was going to plan growth phase as I'd for my bf right down. Deca is at 450mg which will likely drop to 300mg. This is for permanent joint issues which I appreciate isn't great long term.

I'm also taking BCP 157 which really helps as an analgesic and from what I've read appears a good 'recovery' peptide. I'm also taking GHRP 2 and MOD GRF x 2 normally both during intermittent fasting (fasting on back burner at mo)

I suspect the combination of really poor sleep, calorie deficiency and salbutamol (12.5mg per day) has caused the crash.

I have access to Prednisone as an emergency measure. 5mg first thing one day a week to get some resistance training in but it is an absolute last resort.

@El Chapo if you have any further advice on this potential over training/under recovery post stim fatigue or anything I've not thought of such as supplements. I used to own a gym and have put members into shows at national and local level. Have seen extremes attached but not many this bad but I'm speculating it happens more often than I realise.

Any help, always appreciated and thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> I've taken on the advice and stopped all training.
> 
> I've gone to maintenance but also switched my macros a bit too include a slightly higher amount of carbs. My diet is normally close to keto and carbs are all high fibrous. I've switched some to easier digested carbs (medium grain brown rice and potatoes) to ease my system.
> 
> The fatigue has been that bad that couldn't walk down the street without feeling like I wanted to lie down.
> 
> My TSH came back in normal range. I know it isn't definitive and I've no idea where in the normal range but will find out. Last time my TSH was low normal which I'm guessing would indicate high normal thyroid but appreciate it isn't that simple.
> 
> I've lowered my caffeine intake and no stims.
> 
> Sleeping 8hrs every night. Water, nutrients etc should all be optimised for recovery.
> 
> Compounds tweaked ever so slightly, test remains at 300mg but may drop to TRT if persists. Was going to plan growth phase as I'd for my bf right down. Deca is at 450mg which will likely drop to 300mg. This is for permanent joint issues which I appreciate isn't great long term.
> 
> I'm also taking BCP 157 which really helps as an analgesic and from what I've read appears a good 'recovery' peptide. I'm also taking GHRP 2 and MOD GRF x 2 normally both during intermittent fasting (fasting on back burner at mo)
> 
> I suspect the combination of really poor sleep, calorie deficiency and salbutamol (12.5mg per day) has caused the crash.
> 
> I have access to Prednisone as an emergency measure. 5mg first thing one day a week to get some resistance training in but it is an absolute last resort.
> 
> @El Chapo if you have any further advice on this potential over training/under recovery post stim fatigue or anything I've not thought of such as supplements. I used to own a gym and have put members into shows at national and local level. Have seen extremes attached but not many this bad but I'm speculating it happens more often than I realise.
> 
> Any help, always appreciated and thanks again


 Using TSH to gauge thyroid function is like using LH/FSH to gauge testosterone levels. It's a joke. TSH is basically useless.

You need to get Free T4 and Free T3 labs to see your actual serum thyroid hormone levels.

Lowering caffeine intake will have no net benefit to you. I would keep drinking coffee until you resolve the problem. You need Free T4 and Free T3 labs.

High and low E2 can also cause lethargy.


----------



## TALBOTL

@El Chapo I saw you mention the other day that you only need 1g of protein per pound of lbm, is there an article or some studies behind that? Not because I don't believe you of course! Because I have always said people eat way too much of it, just for the fact it would be good to read it and also have something to show the 1kg of protein an hour crew that are constantly on my case :lol:


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Slightly elevated BP i wouldn't worry about. If it goes as high as 140/90 mmhg its okay, as long as its not year round.
> 
> High BP will damage your vision, kidney function and heart overtime. The worst outcome is blindness, stroke and dependencd on dialysis machines. This takes many years of elevated BP though, usually decades.
> 
> If it goes over 140/90 on cycle and E2 and hematocrit are under control, a low dose beta blocker is my go-to recommendation. They are fairly mild in terms of sides.
> 
> Test base might create this feeling because of the strong spike in serum test and metabolites, could also be placebo. Some of these things are a mystery.


 Thanks
About the kidney , how to know if its healthy ?

i made blood works and creatinine was normal , everything was but maybe I didn't ask for the right things.

I still think my BP is higher then normal, when I donate blood they often say that my BP is high and ask me if I just did some sport . I sometimes get to 16/9 but 2 min later they retest and it can go down to 12/6 or sometimes 14/7. I don't trust 100% those things because it's always different and with my doctor I'm always 12/6 , it looks like he doesn't do it properly or his machine isn't working well.

My vision got really bad these last 2 years , kidney I can't tell and heart.. well I don't know but when I get high RBC I get bad cardio and dizzy which is normal.

i ve got a beta blocker , tried it 3 days at really low dose (5mg propranolol or 10 idr) but it make me feel really weird like I'm super dizzy , and people noticed it.

So would you advice me to get my own BP machine to test myself once a week?

Thanks


----------



## MrGRoberts

Hi @ElChapo

Ive used HGH twice before. Both times it was Ansomone HGH.

2iu Monday-Friday

4iu Monday-Friday

both times I had to stop due to getting heart palpitations/strange heart rate. When I stopped the HGH it went back to normal. Annoying cause I really like the effects it gave me. Any idea what it was?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @El Chapo I saw you mention the other day that you only need 1g of protein per pound of lbm, is there an article or some studies behind that? Not because I don't believe you of course! Because I have always said people eat way too much of it, just for the fact it would be good to read it and also have something to show the 1kg of protein an hour crew that are constantly on my case :lol:


 Yeah, it's in the research + anecdotal experience. There is a saturation point for amino acids that's reached, anything after that gets broken down for energy and excreted.

If i find the links i will post them. For a quick resource:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html/


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Thanks
> About the kidney , how to know if its healthy ?
> 
> i made blood works and creatinine was normal , everything was but maybe I didn't ask for the right things.
> 
> I still think my BP is higher then normal, when I donate blood they often say that my BP is high and ask me if I just did some sport . I sometimes get to 16/9 but 2 min later they retest and it can go down to 12/6 or sometimes 14/7. I don't trust 100% those things because it's always different and with my doctor I'm always 12/6 , it looks like he doesn't do it properly or his machine isn't working well.
> 
> My vision got really bad these last 2 years , kidney I can't tell and heart.. well I don't know but when I get high RBC I get bad cardio and dizzy which is normal.
> 
> i ve got a beta blocker , tried it 3 days at really low dose (5mg propranolol or 10 idr) but it make me feel really weird like I'm super dizzy , and people noticed it.
> 
> So would you advice me to get my own BP machine to test myself once a week?
> 
> Thanks


 The best marker for kidney function is *GFR* aka glomerular filtration rate. This is how many mLs your kidney are able to filter per minute.

There is also the *micro albumin* test which can see if there is protein leakage in the kidneys. This is an early detector of kidney disease.

Get yourself an automatic Omron brand BP cuff. They are very accurate when used properly. Sometimes the people see 160/90 and will lie about the 2nd number so they don't have to deal with it. 160/90 is extremely dangerous in the long-term and short term for your health. I recommend the Omron 3 Series, it's about 20-30 USD, very high quality.

If your BP is really 160/90 year round, that would explain your vision loss. The high blood pressure damages the vascular system and circulation to the eyes, when this happens, the eyes don't get enough nutrients and oxygen and the retinal cells start to die off and your vision deteriorates. Doctors are awful teachers and don't teach patient's even 10% of what they should be.

If you are having poor side effects for the BP meds, you should try a different one until you find one with minimal side effects, but the high BP will wreck havoc on your health.

Get an omron series 3 BP machine, i have one myself. They are very accurate and give me the exact same readings as my manual reading with a stethoscope and sphygmomanometer.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Ive used HGH twice before. Both times it was Ansomone HGH.
> 
> 2iu Monday-Friday
> 
> 4iu Monday-Friday
> 
> both times I had to stop due to getting heart palpitations/strange heart rate. When I stopped the HGH it went back to normal. Annoying cause I really like the effects it gave me. Any idea what it was?
> 
> Thanks


 It could be a natural reaction to high GH levels, some people get strange effects when they first run GH. Sometimes the generics are actually overdosed too.

Any time i order a kit, i test every batch. When i order GH, i generally order a bunch at a time and will run a test on a random vial in the batch.

You reconstitute 10 IU into 1 mL, inject it IM. Draw blood 3 hours later for GH serum test. Legit HGH will put your serum GH levels around 20 ng/mL. Generally 15-30 ng/mL variation between different generics. This data actually comes from Saizen's own research and many people online have used this method successfully to their HGH.

There is some high quality generic HGH out there. I generally test anything i buy as often as i can (raw powders, oils, HGH).


----------



## stewedw

Regarding BP. I kept this for the last few months after having being told its high.

Anything to be concerned about? Internet says yes due to first number.

Sunday Dec 2nd 1am

134/68
131/65
129/63
132/68 average heart rate is 60bpm

Tues December 4th 8.30pm (finished gym 7pm. Ate meal, had strong coffee 7.30pm)

135/62 heart rate 75
129/59 heart rate 73
135/63 heart rate 83
131/60 heart rate 77

Friday December 7th 5.15 pm one hour post workout.

141/73 heart rate 94
142/69 heart rate 89
140/67 heart rate 91
137/59 heart rate 85

Tuesday December 11th 9pm no gym today, meal eaten 4pm and 7.45pm

129/66 heart rate 70
136/65 heart rate 71
130/60 heart rate 74
127/57 heart rate 73

Tuesday Dec 18th 3.45pm caffiene at midday. Not eaten for 2 hours. Just gone from work.

133/63 heart rate 64
124/63 heart rate 71
127/60 heart rate 66

Friday December 28th 23.00 after food 6pm. Tired and also have a cold.

148/74 heart rate 86
135/70 heart rate 86
133/71 heart rate 86
144/74 heart rate 86

Wednesday Jan 16th 8.15am woken for 30 mins. No caffeine, good sleep.

128/76 heart rate 61
124/62 heart rate 55
128/72 heart rate 58

Tues feb 5th 23.20 after food, can of cola and 2beers
132/63 heart rate 94
134/51 heart rate 91
135/51 heart rate 90

Thursday Feb 28th 10pm been dieting four days, possibly dehydrated.

142/73 hr 64
141/70 hr 70
152/71 hr 70
153/72 hr 67

March 8th 6pm

145/79 hr 80
136/79 hr 78
134/63 hr 75

Sat April 6th 4pm can of monster 1pm. Relaxed.

155/75 hr 80
153/71 hr 78
149/70 hr 79
139/67 hr 79

Sat April 20th 12midday. Had a morning walk and just ate food.
**********lowest its been sinc December ***.
130/70 hr76
127/67 hr74
125/68 hr 72
129/60 hr69

June 11th 23.30 on a cut, had atoms and beer today but hr is consistently best its been 
129/61 hr 70
131!61 hr 73
129/55 hr 70
126/53 hr 74


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Regarding BP. I kept this for the last few months after having being told its high.
> 
> Anything to be concerned about? Internet says yes due to first number.
> 
> Sunday Dec 2nd 1am
> 
> 134/68
> 131/65
> 129/63
> 132/68 average heart rate is 60bpm
> 
> Tues December 4th 8.30pm (finished gym 7pm. Ate meal, had strong coffee 7.30pm)
> 
> 135/62 heart rate 75
> 129/59 heart rate 73
> 135/63 heart rate 83
> 131/60 heart rate 77
> 
> Friday December 7th 5.15 pm one hour post workout.
> 
> 141/73 heart rate 94
> 142/69 heart rate 89
> 140/67 heart rate 91
> 137/59 heart rate 85
> 
> Tuesday December 11th 9pm no gym today, meal eaten 4pm and 7.45pm
> 
> 129/66 heart rate 70
> 136/65 heart rate 71
> 130/60 heart rate 74
> 127/57 heart rate 73
> 
> Tuesday Dec 18th 3.45pm caffiene at midday. Not eaten for 2 hours. Just gone from work.
> 
> 133/63 heart rate 64
> 124/63 heart rate 71
> 127/60 heart rate 66
> 
> Friday December 28th 23.00 after food 6pm. Tired and also have a cold.
> 
> 148/74 heart rate 86
> 135/70 heart rate 86
> 133/71 heart rate 86
> 144/74 heart rate 86
> 
> Wednesday Jan 16th 8.15am woken for 30 mins. No caffeine, good sleep.
> 
> 128/76 heart rate 61
> 124/62 heart rate 55
> 128/72 heart rate 58
> 
> Tues feb 5th 23.20 after food, can of cola and 2beers
> 132/63 heart rate 94
> 134/51 heart rate 91
> 135/51 heart rate 90
> 
> Thursday Feb 28th 10pm been dieting four days, possibly dehydrated.
> 
> 142/73 hr 64
> 141/70 hr 70
> 152/71 hr 70
> 153/72 hr 67
> 
> March 8th 6pm
> 
> 145/79 hr 80
> 136/79 hr 78
> 134/63 hr 75
> 
> Sat April 6th 4pm can of monster 1pm. Relaxed.
> 
> 155/75 hr 80
> 153/71 hr 78
> 149/70 hr 79
> 139/67 hr 79
> 
> Sat April 20th 12midday. Had a morning walk and just ate food.
> **********lowest its been sinc December ***.
> 130/70 hr76
> 127/67 hr74
> 125/68 hr 72
> 129/60 hr69
> 
> June 11th 23.30 on a cut, had atoms and beer today but hr is consistently best its been
> 129/61 hr 70
> 131!61 hr 73
> 129/55 hr 70
> 126/53 hr 74


 Systolic, the first number, in the low 130s is fine. Anything over 140 is not good long-term.

Your diastolic, the second number, is excellent. You want this under 90. Your numbers are good.

Heart rates in the 60's and 70's is excellent too.

Systolic is the blood pressure in your body when your heart beats, diastolic is the blood pressure when the heart relaxes. That is why the top number is always higher than the bottom, the contraction will always cause a higher BP than the relaxation. Systole/diastole = Contraction/Relaxation


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> The best marker for kidney function is *GFR* aka glomerular filtration rate. This is how many mLs your kidney are able to filter per minute.
> 
> There is also the *micro albumin* test which can see if there is protein leakage in the kidneys. This is an early detector of kidney disease.
> 
> Get yourself an automatic Omron brand BP cuff. They are very accurate when used properly. Sometimes the people see 160/90 and will lie about the 2nd number so they don't have to deal with it. 160/90 is extremely dangerous in the long-term and short term for your health. I recommend the Omron 3 Series, it's about 20-30 USD, very high quality.
> 
> If your BP is really 160/90 year round, that would explain your vision loss. The high blood pressure damages the vascular system and circulation to the eyes, when this happens, the eyes don't get enough nutrients and oxygen and the retinal cells start to die off and your vision deteriorates. Doctors are awful teachers and don't teach patient's even 10% of what they should be.
> 
> If you are having poor side effects for the BP meds, you should try a different one until you find one with minimal side effects, but the high BP will wreck havoc on your health.
> 
> Get an omron series 3 BP machine, i have one myself. They are very accurate and give me the exact same readings as my manual reading with a stethoscope and sphygmomanometer.


 thanks a lot.

I don't think I have 16/9 , more like 14/7

Plus last time I gave blood I was taking tbol so my BP may have been higher than normal , and I'm on test all year round (200-250mg).

I'm trying to be the healthiest while staying on 200-250mg test , everything seems good even HDL/LDL but when I add an oral it destroys everything.

I'm only taking Tbol now , at 25-50mg , even 25mg really seemed to help my body to better absorb the nutrients , better glycogen retention.

I'll buy the BP machine next month


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> thanks a lot.
> 
> I don't think I have 16/9 , more like 14/7
> 
> Plus last time I gave blood I was taking tbol so my BP may have been higher than normal , and I'm on test all year round (200-250mg).
> 
> I'm trying to be the healthiest while staying on 200-250mg test , everything seems good even HDL/LDL but when I add an oral it destroys everything.
> 
> I'm only taking Tbol now , at 25-50mg , even 25mg really seemed to help my body to better absorb the nutrients , better glycogen retention.
> 
> I'll buy the BP machine next month


 Orals should never be ran year round. That's asking for trouble.

If you want to look better year round, i recommend staying under around 10% bodyfat, running prop instead enanthate.


----------



## woolymaggot

ElChapo said:


> Using TSH to gauge thyroid function is like using LH/FSH to gauge testosterone levels. It's a joke. TSH is basically useless.
> 
> You need to get Free T4 and Free T3 labs to see your actual serum thyroid hormone levels.
> 
> Lowering caffeine intake will have no net benefit to you. I would keep drinking coffee until you resolve the problem. You need Free T4 and Free T3 labs.
> 
> High and low E2 can also cause lethargy.


 I'm back at the docs today so I'll push for t3 and t4 to be done. They do a job that's difficult so I try to be pragmatic but it's like banging head against a brick wall sometimes. If that fails I'll order a private blood test.

My previous tsh (1.13) and t4 (12.27) but didn't have t3 done and I was definitely not in calorie reduction. I'll read up a bit more on thyroid hormones.

My e2 has pretty much always been normal range (middle to low) even on cycles without controlling it. Probably choice of compounds and lower test doses.

@El Chapo thanks again for taking the time to reply and share your knowledge. I like this site anyway but this is the most valuable thread on it to me. Great work fella.


----------



## Rob27

Hi mate @ElChapo

With regards to gyno would decline on chest days make it more prominent? Ive read a few theorys that doing decline with gyno will make it stand out more and to do more incline as the upper chest will push the gyno downwards where doing decline will make them stick out even more?

Is this true or not? Currently have minor gyno which I've got some ralox to sort it but I've always wondered if the statement above is correct or not?

Cheers!


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Orals should never be ran year round. That's asking for trouble.
> 
> If you want to look better year round, i recommend staying under around 10% bodyfat, running prop instead enanthate.


 yes ; I don't run all year but I did 3 months of 50mg for 6 weeks then 6 weeks of 25mg.

I'm at 9.5% bf right now , but in winter I get to 11-13% bf , hard to grow and stay under 10%bf for me because i stock fat pretty easily


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hard question to give a straight response, maybe you can answer from person experience, if using a dose of 100-150mcg t3, how much did this raise your maintenance by?


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> I'm back at the docs today so I'll push for t3 and t4 to be done. They do a job that's difficult so I try to be pragmatic but it's like banging head against a brick wall sometimes. If that fails I'll order a private blood test.
> 
> My previous tsh (1.13) and t4 (12.27) but didn't have t3 done and I was definitely not in calorie reduction. I'll read up a bit more on thyroid hormones.
> 
> My e2 has pretty much always been normal range (middle to low) even on cycles without controlling it. Probably choice of compounds and lower test doses.
> 
> @El Chapo thanks again for taking the time to reply and share your knowledge. I like this site anyway but this is the most valuable thread on it to me. Great work fella.


 What was the last time you went on cruise doses? High doses of AAS can make people lethargic as well.

What is your average carb intake like?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi mate @ElChapo
> 
> With regards to gyno would decline on chest days make it more prominent? Ive read a few theorys that doing decline with gyno will make it stand out more and to do more incline as the upper chest will push the gyno downwards where doing decline will make them stick out even more?
> 
> Is this true or not? Currently have minor gyno which I've got some ralox to sort it but I've always wondered if the statement above is correct or not?
> 
> Cheers!


 It can add more sag to the pecs, I never recommend decline bench, as most people already have bottom pec dominant chests. It's good to put more emphasis on incline benching to hit the upper fibers which don't get stimulated as well with flat bench press as the bottom half.

It would depend on the gyno, if it's a puffy gland/cone, then not really. If the gyno is very large, it can make it look worse.

I would generally recommend cutting out decline bench and hitting incline instead, the top fibers are important to make the pecs pop and acquire a "3D" look and when they are weak, the pecs can take on a droopy, man titty appearance.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hard question to give a straight response, maybe you can answer from person experience, if using a dose of 100-150mcg t3, how much did this raise your maintenance by?


 Easily 200-500 as a rough estimate. Probably on the higher end of that with such a high dose. T3 is a poor drug on it's own and high doses will decrease strength and create flatness in the muscles most of the time as well as side effects like diahrrea, headache, and agitation/sleep issues. You're better off throwing 50 mcg of T3 in combo with another fat burner.


----------



## woolymaggot

ElChapo said:


> Using TSH to gauge thyroid function is like using LH/FSH to gauge testosterone levels. It's a joke. TSH is basically useless.
> 
> You need to get Free T4 and Free T3 labs to see your actual serum thyroid hormone levels.
> 
> Lowering caffeine intake will have no net benefit to you. I would keep drinking coffee until you resolve the problem. You need Free T4 and Free T3 labs.
> 
> High and low E2 can also cause lethargy.


 10 weeks ago I was on trt test at 100mg with 150mg deca. This is my staple cruise to maintain decent test levels and the deca assists my joint pain which I've had for over 10 years now.

I only blast 1 or 2 times a year and an example would be 300mg test e or c with 600mg deca. I'll do a second with shorter esters such as NPP and test p. I'm not a heavy user as my physical capabilities are really compromised (10+ operations, muscle patterning issues, bad posture job etc). Cavalier days are over but I also accept that my approach carries long term risks (nandrolone) but it significantly adds to my quality of life.

The last 6 months I've been on a gentle but progressive cut that culminated in:

1hr medium intensity stationary bike or shadow boxing fasted cardio every day (struggle with anything else) followed by ice on knees and hips.

Resistance training is now limited to one workout a week covering all groups. This was through trial and error allowing for recovery to joints.

Intermittent fasting every day for 15hrs.

Carbs were around no more than 50g from mainly fibrous carbs with 1 or 2 meal refeed one day a week. This was really dialed in for the last 8 weeks.

I suspect this and the combination of the above with crappy sleep and salbutamol has done me in. I need to go back to keeping logs as I suspect I could have anticipated and intervened. Shame really as it proved very successful in lowering my bf. I also cannot stress that until the crash, I felt a million dollars, tons of energy and focus.

I've increased my carbs by offsetting other macros as to avoid a significant surplus. The irony is I look full and very vascular but that won't last too long.

My recovery plan is:

Maintainance calories with increased carb ratio.

Await T3 and T4 results and consider action through recovering naturally or supplement.

Introduce resistance training

Then cardio maybe 3 times a week

Build up everything slowly

Cycle keto in future and monitor thyroid during cut.

Review whether stims need to be avoided or take an EOD protocol for example to protect the CNS. I have this feeling I've been here before with stims (logs!)

Back off when I get any early signs of fatigue

Never give up and adapt.

Invent a miracle cure for crappy old ass joints.

@El Chapo can't thank you enough for your interest. I'm a humble old dog that can learn new tricks.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You will always get a trace and minimal amount of fats through all your foods unless all you eat is rice cakes. It's a macro that is not important to keep track of. Just focus most of your time and energy on hitting your calories, minimum protein and fill the rest with carbs. People waste too much time and energy obsessing over macros, it seems to be the new fad.


 oh okay so

1gram per pound of BW protein

rest carbs basically not even a minimum you should hit on fats you think?

so 4kcal for 200pound guys is

200gram protein

700-800carbs

and rest just trace fat?

I've never tried such high carb/protein ratio before but would like to give it a try but I need some guidence of how low you suggest me to go on protein+fats


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> 10 weeks ago I was on trt test at 100mg with 150mg deca. This is my staple cruise to maintain decent test levels and the deca assists my joint pain which I've had for over 10 years now.
> 
> I only blast 1 or 2 times a year and an example would be 300mg test e or c with 600mg deca. I'll do a second with shorter esters such as NPP and test p. I'm not a heavy user as my physical capabilities are really compromised (10+ operations, muscle patterning issues, bad posture job etc). Cavalier days are over but I also accept that my approach carries long term risks (nandrolone) but it significantly adds to my quality of life.
> 
> The last 6 months I've been on a gentle but progressive cut that culminated in:
> 
> 1hr medium intensity stationary bike or shadow boxing fasted cardio every day (struggle with anything else) followed by ice on knees and hips.
> 
> Resistance training is now limited to one workout a week covering all groups. This was through trial and error allowing for recovery to joints.
> 
> Intermittent fasting every day for 15hrs.
> 
> Carbs were around no more than 50g from mainly fibrous carbs with 1 or 2 meal refeed one day a week. This was really dialed in for the last 8 weeks.
> 
> I suspect this and the combination of the above with crappy sleep and salbutamol has done me in. I need to go back to keeping logs as I suspect I could have anticipated and intervened. Shame really as it proved very successful in lowering my bf. I also cannot stress that until the crash, I felt a million dollars, tons of energy and focus.
> 
> I've increased my carbs by offsetting other macros as to avoid a significant surplus. The irony is I look full and very vascular but that won't last too long.
> 
> My recovery plan is:
> 
> Maintainance calories with increased carb ratio.
> 
> Await T3 and T4 results and consider action through recovering naturally or supplement.
> 
> Introduce resistance training
> 
> Then cardio maybe 3 times a week
> 
> Build up everything slowly
> 
> Cycle keto in future and monitor thyroid during cut.
> 
> Review whether stims need to be avoided or take an EOD protocol for example to protect the CNS. I have this feeling I've been here before with stims (logs!)
> 
> Back off when I get any early signs of fatigue
> 
> Never give up and adapt.
> 
> Invent a miracle cure for crappy old ass joints.
> 
> @El Chapo can't thank you enough for your interest. I'm a humble old dog that can learn new tricks.


 Here is what i think your problem is:

1hr medium intensity stationary bike or shadow boxing fasted cardio every day (struggle with anything else) followed by ice on knees and hips.

50 grams of carbs daily (from fibrous carbs)

1. Too much cardio 2. Not enough starchy carbs

1. Cut the cardio back to 30 minutes a day, Monday-Friday and take the weekends off completely.

2. Increase your carb intake. Starchy carbs like rice, potato, pasta, etc. These are important to keep liver and muscle glycogen stores filled and also for optimal serotonin levels in the brain. Low carb diet will impair your T4 to T3 conversion. These diets mimic starvation in your body, the body compensates by shutting the metabolism down by inhibiting conversion and deiodination of T4 to T3.

Low carb is very stressful to the body. Initially people feel euphoric and energized because your body release adrenaline in response to the stress to mobilize fat stores for energy, and this makes you feel good for a while. Eventually you just burn out and feel like s**t. I've been there with the keto BS and it's garbage.

A good example of a proponent of higher carb intake is Mike O'Hearn, he's extremely strong, very lean and amazing physique. I also believe he's 50 years old or so. My own personal experience and my knowledge of nutrition & physiology will agree with Mike's.

Final note: Don't avoid caffeine or coffee, there is nothing inherently bad about it, but it offers multiple health benefits for alzheimers, diabetes, cancer prevention, etc. There are more positives than negatives. If you quit stimulants like coffee cold turkey, you are going to have a very shitty experience for a while.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> oh okay so
> 
> 1gram per pound of BW protein
> 
> rest carbs basically not even a minimum you should hit on fats you think?
> 
> so 4kcal for 200pound guys is
> 
> 200gram protein
> 
> 700-800carbs
> 
> and rest just trace fat?
> 
> I've never tried such high carb/protein ratio before but would like to give it a try but I need some guidence of how low you suggest me to go on protein+fats


 Per pound of Lean body mass. AKA, only the non-fat portion. If you weigh 180 lbs at 10% body fat, then you're LBM (lean body mass) is 162 lbs, so your protein target is around 162 grams.

If you are bulking, you need even less protein and the formula would be 0.8 grams per lbs of LBM.

There is no minimum for fat, you will get plenty from your diet. Someone not trying to eat fat will easily hit 30-50 grams from cooking oils, emulsifiers, etc in their food. You have to very consciously try to avoid fat to hit 0 grams per day, it's very hard, so don't worry about it.

I'm not telling you to consciously keep fats low, you can still have moderate fat, but not at the expense of carb and protein, those are priority.

There's been a recent obsession with macro ratios and targets. It's a waste of time and energy. The main focus should be calorie intake and the minimum amount of protein needed to spare or build muscle. The rest doesn't matter, just don't actively try to avoid carbs like in low carb/keto diets.


----------



## pma111

I appreciate this is off topic but you are so knowledgeable on health issues its mad. We have a family member who has a bit of a drink problem (alcohol). Are there any supplements that may reduce cravings etc. Or should willpower alone be enough.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> It could be a natural reaction to high GH levels, some people get strange effects when they first run GH. Sometimes the generics are actually overdosed too.
> 
> Any time i order a kit, i test every batch. When i order GH, i generally order a bunch at a time and will run a test on a random vial in the batch.
> 
> You reconstitute 10 IU into 1 mL, inject it IM. Draw blood 3 hours later for GH serum test. Legit HGH will put your serum GH levels around 20 ng/mL. Generally 15-30 ng/mL variation between different generics. This data actually comes from Saizen's own research and many people online have used this method successfully to their HGH.
> 
> There is some high quality generic HGH out there. I generally test anything i buy as often as i can (raw powders, oils, HGH).


 Okay thanks.

so will it go after some time? And is it safe?

It's pretty scary when it's happening


----------



## sos2008

Hi @El Chapo first off your contribution to this thread is amazing and so helpful, thanks.

I've just come off a 14 week cycle, test only 420mg p/w and loved it. Been off for 8 weeks and I know I will go on again once I have bloodwork back to confirm recovery, i'm trying to stay off 4 months at least first but seriously considering B&C after that for a year or so as don't like the yo yo effect of PCT if im guna jump back on a few moths later. Fertility and recovery are my main worries. What would be your advice/experience with giving myself the best possible chance of recovery & keeping fertility?

im 30 btw in good health, pre cycle bloods to confirm & have high natural test levels - 26.2nmol (9 - 29 range) FSH 3.87 (1.5 - 12 range) LH 5.52 (1.7 - 8.6 range). I only ever intend to use test btw & never over 500mg, protocol would probably be 8 week blast - 500mg then 8 week cruise 150mg a week, rinse and repeat. HCG throughout or any recommendations? Bad idea? Is cycling better on the HPTA surely the yo yo effect isn't great even compared to staying on a long time?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Per pound of Lean body mass. AKA, only the non-fat portion. If you weigh 180 lbs at 10% body fat, then you're LBM (lean body mass) is 162 lbs, so your protein target is around 162 grams.
> 
> If you are bulking, you need even less protein and the formula would be 0.8 grams per lbs of LBM.
> 
> There is no minimum for fat, you will get plenty from your diet. Someone not trying to eat fat will easily hit 30-50 grams from cooking oils, emulsifiers, etc in their food. You have to very consciously try to avoid fat to hit 0 grams per day, it's very hard, so don't worry about it.
> 
> I'm not telling you to consciously keep fats low, you can still have moderate fat, but not at the expense of carb and protein, those are priority.
> 
> There's been a recent obsession with macro ratios and targets. It's a waste of time and energy. The main focus should be calorie intake and the minimum amount of protein needed to spare or build muscle. The rest doesn't matter, just don't actively try to avoid carbs like in low carb/keto diets.


 Thank you for detailed answer!

Will just try to hit enough protein and then just fill up on carbs, and let the fats come from the meat or cooking oils etc.

If you have any other tips or recommendation for diet when adding size on cycle please let me know


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> I appreciate this is off topic but you are so knowledgeable on health issues its mad. We have a family member who has a bit of a drink problem (alcohol). Are there any supplements that may reduce cravings etc. Or should willpower alone be enough.


 There's a strong genetic and behavioral component to alcoholism. It's linked to dopamine receptors and action in the brain that increase cravings and susceptibility to addictions.

The behavioral component has more to do with the person's state of mind and willingness to quit. Many use it as a crutch for stressful situations or as self-medication for depression and/or anxiety.

The best approach is multifactorial, will power and desire to stop is very important. The medication naltrexone can block the high effect of alcohol and help reduce cravings. This as far as i can really go with advice as this isn't my field or area of expertise, but again, the best approach is both behavioral and medicinal.

Counseling/rehab/family support and medication can help but at the end of the day, you gotta fight it yourself.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Okay thanks.
> 
> so will it go after some time? And is it safe?
> 
> It's pretty scary when it's happening


 How long did you run the GH before you stopped?


----------



## ElChapo

sos2008 said:


> Hi @El Chapo first off your contribution to this thread is amazing and so helpful, thanks.
> 
> I've just come off a 14 week cycle, test only 420mg p/w and loved it. Been off for 8 weeks and I know I will go on again once I have bloodwork back to confirm recovery, i'm trying to stay off 4 months at least first but seriously considering B&C after that for a year or so as don't like the yo yo effect of PCT if im guna jump back on a few moths later. Fertility and recovery are my main worries. What would be your advice/experience with giving myself the best possible chance of recovery & keeping fertility?
> 
> im 30 btw in good health, pre cycle bloods to confirm & have high natural test levels - 26.2nmol (9 - 29 range) FSH 3.87 (1.5 - 12 range) LH 5.52 (1.7 - 8.6 range). I only ever intend to use test btw & never over 500mg, protocol would probably be 8 week blast - 500mg then 8 week cruise 150mg a week, rinse and repeat. HCG throughout or any recommendations? Bad idea? Is cycling better on the HPTA surely the yo yo effect isn't great even compared to staying on a long time?


 Run HCG 1,500 IU while blasting and crusing. Ideally split x 2-3 times per week.

An example would be, you cruise on 200 mg test E and 1,500 HCG. You can split your injections to twice a week. So Monday you inject 100 mg test e+750 IU HCG in the same syringe, and repeated on Thursday. Just as an example of what you can do. A decent gauge of fertility maintenance will be testicle size.

If you can maintain the size, it's a rough sign that the HCG is working to help preserve fertility, but ideally, you would run sperm analysis at least once a year to keep an eye on fertility levels.

Keep in mind, some men have conceived while on heavy cycles of tren, deca, and testosterone which are extremely suppressive, other men can't conceive even after having never touched an anabolic steroid in their lives. So there is a strong genetic and environmental component to fertility.

Cycle+PCT with test+HCG only blasts is the best way to perserve fertility if it's your priority.

If the priority is performance+convenience, straight blasting+cruising is better.

You can go with the middle option as well of blasting+cruising+HCG. There are many options, and they all depend on your goals and lifestyle.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for detailed answer!
> 
> Will just try to hit enough protein and then just fill up on carbs, and let the fats come from the meat or cooking oils etc.
> 
> If you have any other tips or recommendation for diet when adding size on cycle please let me know


 Exactly this^ i'm not saying to avoid fats at all. Just don't try to consciously avoid them OR seek them out at the expense of carbs which are the back bone of strength and muscle building performance. Fats are a subpar energy source and can't build muscle.

Ketogenic and low carb diets are poor for performance and well-being for most people. Moderate-high carb is ideal overall.

There's no secret to adding size. Eating a surplus of calories, get stronger by increasing weight & reps, rest & recover so the muscle re-builds itself stronger and bigger. Adding AAS just makes this process faster and lets you exceed your genetic limit, but the fundamentals are still the same. Remember, growth happens when you AREN'T at the gym. When you are recovering.


----------



## sos2008

ElChapo said:


> Run HCG 1,500 IU while blasting and crusing. Ideally split x 2-3 times per week.
> 
> An example would be, you cruise on 200 mg test E and 1,500 HCG. You can split your injections to twice a week. So Monday you inject 100 mg test e+750 IU HCG in the same syringe, and repeated on Thursday. Just as an example of what you can do. A decent gauge of fertility maintenance will be testicle size.
> 
> If you can maintain the size, it's a rough sign that the HCG is working to help preserve fertility, but ideally, you would run sperm analysis at least once a year to keep an eye on fertility levels.
> 
> Keep in mind, some men have conceived while on heavy cycles of tren, deca, and testosterone which are extremely suppressive, other men can't conceive even after having never touched an anabolic steroid in their lives. So there is a strong genetic and environmental component to fertility.
> 
> Cycle+PCT with test+HCG only blasts is the best way to perserve fertility if it's your priority.
> 
> If the priority is performance+convenience, straight blasting+cruising is better.
> 
> You can go with the middle option as well of blasting+cruising+HCG. There are many options, and they all depend on your goals and lifestyle.


 Thanks @ElChapo appreciate the detailed response & duly noted.

One more Question if you have time, is desensitization from HCG a thing or complete bro science? Is it fine to run it straight through a blast n cruise say of 12 months or would you need to give yourself a break from it.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Exactly this^ i'm not saying to avoid fats at all. Just don't try to consciously avoid them OR seek them out at the expense of carbs which are the back bone of strength and muscle building performance. Fats are a subpar energy source and can't build muscle.
> 
> Ketogenic and low carb diets are poor for performance and well-being for most people. Moderate-high carb is ideal overall.
> 
> There's no secret to adding size. Eating a surplus of calories, get stronger by increasing weight & reps, rest & recover so the muscle re-builds itself stronger and bigger. Adding AAS just makes this process faster and lets you exceed your genetic limit, but the fundamentals are still the same. Remember, growth happens when you AREN'T at the gym. When you are recovering.


 "Remember, growth happens when you AREN'T at the gym. When you are recovering. " - Actually been doing PPL for a while now - always done 6 days a week programs, I would like to try some other split, but it feels like I get too little frequency/work by only doing 4 days - do you have any preffered training split, and how many rest days you suggest per week?


----------



## ElChapo

sos2008 said:


> Thanks @ElChapo appreciate the detailed response & duly noted.
> 
> One more Question if you have time, is desensitization from HCG a thing or complete bro science? Is it fine to run it straight through a blast n cruise say of 12 months or would you need to give yourself a break from it.


 Broscience.

Do your balls become desensitized to your own endogenous LH & FSH? HCG is just mimicking this hormone.

Run it forever while you are on if you want to maximize the chances of perserving fertility. The balls lose their size and fertility because the receptors stop being stimulated by LH/FSH to produce sperm and testosterone. By taking HCG, you continue to stimulate those LH/FSH receptors so that they don't atrophy thereby preserving fertility and your chances of recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> "Remember, growth happens when you AREN'T at the gym. When you are recovering. " - Actually been doing PPL for a while now - always done 6 days a week programs, I would like to try some other split, but it feels like I get too little frequency/work by only doing 4 days - do you have any preffered training split, and how many rest days you suggest per week?


 Your muscles that aren't being trained directly on a 6 day split are still getting recovery and rest time. The pull days count as a rest day for the push muscle groups.

The training split is down to preference, time, lifestyle, etc. Do what works for you. Recovery time is dependent on training intensity, muscle group trained. Biceps and abs w/ curls+crunches will recover much faster than heavy squats in the 5 rep range, but 12-15 rep range squats will take less time to recover from.

The answer to your question is very different depending on the context and situation. Smaller muscles require a lot less recovery time. You also need to take into consideration PED usage like AAS and HGH which increase recovery speed.

As long as you are in a caloric surplus, and are able to progressively increase weight/reps for all your exercises, you will get stronger and bigger. After that, the split/movements/etc that you use don't really matter, so customize them around your preferred training style and life schedule.

Lagging muscle groups do benefit from more frequent training. Ideally x 2-3 per week, but even once a week is enough to achieve growth and progression.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Your muscles that aren't being trained directly on a 6 day split are still getting recovery and rest time. The pull days count as a rest day for the push muscle groups.
> 
> The training split is down to preference, time, lifestyle, etc. Do what works for you. Recovery time is dependent on training intensity, muscle group trained. Biceps and abs w/ curls+crunches will recover much faster than heavy squats in the 5 rep range, but 12-15 rep range squats will take less time to recover from.
> 
> The answer to your question is very different depending on the context and situation. Smaller muscles require a lot less recovery time. You also need to take into consideration PED usage like AAS and HGH which increase recovery speed.
> 
> As long as you are in a caloric surplus, and are able to progressively increase weight/reps for all your exercises, you will get stronger and bigger. After that, the split/movements/etc that you use don't really matter, so customize them around your preferred training style and life schedule.
> 
> Lagging muscle groups do benefit from more frequent training. Ideally x 2-3 per week, but even once a week is enough to achieve growth and progression.


 Okay I've read a bit about MRV etc, how many amount of sets for big muscle groups do you recommend a week while on AAS, just in genereal? I know when not on AAS its recommended to do around 15-20 set per muscle group but I guess it can be increased while on cycle?


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> How long did you run the GH before you stopped?


 A good few months.

Love how it made me look, fat seemed to melt off from my waist/abs without even trying


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay I've read a bit about MRV etc, how many amount of sets for big muscle groups do you recommend a week while on AAS, just in genereal? I know when not on AAS its recommended to do around 15-20 set per muscle group but I guess it can be increased while on cycle?


 It can be as little as 3 sets per muscle group or +20. It really depends on the intensity of your training, the rep range, RPE, etc. Honestly, you can follow ANY split our routine, and it will work as long as you follow the three fundamentals: 1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus 3. Rest & recovery.

Starting strength routines are a testament to the fact that even very low volumes of training can provide good results.It's not optimal for mass, but you can still gain muscle following a very low volume starting strength routine that only requires 3-5 sets per muscle group. Just to use an extreme example, and even german volume training at the other end of the extreme can also net positive gains, but again, this is ALWAYS contingent on following the 3 cardinal rules of bodybuilding & power lifting for mass and strength gains:

*1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus 3. Rest & recovery.*

The body can definitely handle a lot more volume and shorter recovery times with the addition of AAS, but you will still need to balance training intensity with recovery times, there is no exact number that can be given.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> A good few months.
> 
> Love how it made me look, fat seemed to melt off from my waist/abs without even trying


 You had the weird heart effects the whole entire time?

and you've only used that one brand?


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> You had the weird heart effects the whole entire time?
> 
> and you've only used that one brand?


 The first time it started near the end, so I stopped it to see if it was the HGH that was causing it and it stopped.

The second time was at the beginning so I just came off it.

Yes just this brand


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> The first time it started near the end, so I stopped it to see if it was the HGH that was causing it and it stopped.
> 
> The second time was at the beginning so I just came off it.
> 
> Yes just this brand


 I've seen anecdotes of certain brands causing this issue, specifically ansomone if i recall this specific poster. I would just try a different brand.

If you have access to HGH serum testing, you can inject 10 IU 3 hours before blood draw and you should get a level around 20 ng/mL if it's legit HGH.


----------



## DORIAN

DORIAN said:


> Do you personally use it/rate it thanks ?


 On a low fat day, would it work with some omega 3 tabs ? Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> On a low fat day, would it work with some omega 3 tabs ? Thanks


 Yeah, if you're taking around 15 or more caps. 15 grams of fat from the study i saw. (For Vitamin D3 absorption, so just extrapolating this for the Coq10)


----------



## Teol

SoberHans said:


> FFS I don't know why this a reply to SoberHans. Sorry about that.
> 
> Hey @ElChapo I have a question about fertility. I am in my 40s with a 25-year old fiance who does want to have children. I've been on self-administered TRT, and a few blasts, since early 2017. I have been mostly conscious about using HCG throughout, but do have testicular atrophy. I know you recommend 1500 mcg of HCG per week to maintain fertility, but given my age and the fact that I've already had atrophy, would there be any benefit to increasing the dose? If I were to "blast" HCG at say, 3000 or 5000 per week, would it be of any benefit?
> 
> If it matters, I have two kids already from a previous marriage so I wasn't starting out at a non-reproductive level.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> The first time it started near the end, so I stopped it to see if it was the HGH that was causing it and it stopped.
> 
> The second time was at the beginning so I just came off it.
> 
> Yes just this brand


 Btw, i just read a study today that proves HGH does deplete T4 levels in the body, but that's because it significantly increases conversion to T3. This is believed to partially create some of the positive effects on metabolism, skin, etc from HGH administration.

So it COULD explain your heart symptoms in one way, if perhaps the GH was overdosed or something. Just a theory, because i've seen your issue before in HGH users.

There are some generics that are overdosed greatly, i've seen tests showing almost double the expected concentration.


----------



## ElChapo

Are you already on 1,500 IU? How sure are you that your HCG is legitimate as well? Usually the problem is not taking enough or bunk HCG. Some guys only need 500 IU for the balls to plump up, others need 1,500+. So their you need more or your HCG is questionable.

HCG should be able to prevent full atrophy if you are only taking TRT doses of testosterone. Trenbolone/Deca can cook the nuts because their progestin activity exponentially shuts down the HPTA.

How long have you been trying to conceive now? Do you have access to sperm analysis?

There are multiple options. First, you should make sure your HCG is legit, if it is, try bumping the dose until the balls come back.

Other options are adding HMG(FSH/LH) or going of TRT and going clomid solo at 100 mg until conception. All these options have worked for people.

I actually helped a guy conceive this year, he was PMing me since a year ago. Pretty amazing feeling to see him successful.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It can be as little as 3 sets per muscle group or +20. It really depends on the intensity of your training, the rep range, RPE, etc. Honestly, you can follow ANY split our routine, and it will work as long as you follow the three fundamentals: 1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus 3. Rest & recovery.
> 
> Starting strength routines are a testament to the fact that even very low volumes of training can provide good results.It's not optimal for mass, but you can still gain muscle following a very low volume starting strength routine that only requires 3-5 sets per muscle group. Just to use an extreme example, and even german volume training at the other end of the extreme can also net positive gains, but again, this is ALWAYS contingent on following the 3 cardinal rules of bodybuilding & power lifting for mass and strength gains:
> 
> *1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus 3. Rest & recovery.*
> 
> The body can definitely handle a lot more volume and shorter recovery times with the addition of AAS, but you will still need to balance training intensity with recovery times, there is no exact number that can be given.


 Thank you mate!

Have a question regarding nolva on tren: I know that you recommend not to use nolva while on tren as it increases progesterone, but if I were to use nolva on tren to help gyno, why wouldnt it help keep the gyno away even if it increases progesterone? I mean it should make it so that it wont bind to nipples, so do you recommend not to take nolva and tren because when you stop doing nolva you suddenly have high progesterone and gyno will flare up again?

I hope you understand what Im saying.


----------



## Teol

Thanks for the reply! We're not ready to conceive just yet, but I'm trying to make sure I'll be ready to when we do.

I'm pretty sure the HCG is legit, it's Ovidac. I didn't think that would be faked. I also have used NPP and I briefly used Tren. I'm assuming the NPP would cause the same problems as Deca and Tren.

I'll go ahead and bump up the dose and see if the plums come back.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you mate!
> 
> Have a question regarding nolva on tren: I know that you recommend not to use nolva while on tren as it increases progesterone, but if I were to use nolva on tren to help gyno, why wouldnt it help keep the gyno away even if it increases progesterone? I mean it should make it so that it wont bind to nipples, so do you recommend not to take nolva and tren because when you stop doing nolva you suddenly have high progesterone and gyno will flare up again?
> 
> I hope you understand what Im saying.


 I never ever said nolvadex increases progesterone on tren.

What i did say is that sometimes, ralox and nolva are ineffective for gyno while you are ON tren or deca. Ralox/Nolva will 100% work on tren gyno but only if you are completely off of tren/deca. If you are still running the compounds, there is no guarantee it will work.

There is no increase in progesterone. Trenbolone and deca behave like progesterones. They are not just androgens, they also bind to the progestin receptor which causes the gyno. For some reason, SERMs are able to reverse this gyno even though it's not estrogenic to begin with.

I know this because i ran experiments on myself with tren ace only cycles where i got gyno with 0 E2 levels and was able to reverse it completely with raloxifene in 8 weeks.

Nolva and ralox do not block progesterone but they are able to shrink and reverse gyno, but you can't be running the compound. It's a hit or miss, you can try but i haven't seen success stories of nolva blocking gyno on tren. If you are prone to gyno on tren, stop using tren unless you don't mind running nolva.ralox every time to reverse it. You don't need tren and it's vastly overrated.


----------



## ElChapo

Teol said:


> Thanks for the reply! We're not ready to conceive just yet, but I'm trying to make sure I'll be ready to when we do.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the HCG is legit, it's Ovidac. I didn't think that would be faked. I also have used NPP and I briefly used Tren. I'm assuming the NPP would cause the same problems as Deca and Tren.
> 
> I'll go ahead and bump up the dose and see if the plums come back.


 They can fake anything and everything. There is fake serostim HGH out there, they make counterfits of anything you can think of. I have seen bad hcg out there.

Yes, NPP/TREN/DECA are big no-no's for fertility. The androgen/progestin combo shuts the HPTA down very hard. This is why you see extra testicular shrinkage in a lot of people who run 19-nors.

You're best bet is to bump that dose and try to get a response.


----------



## Popeye66

ElChapo said:


> They can fake anything and everything. There is fake serostim HGH out there, they make counterfits of anything you can think of. I have seen bad hcg out there.
> 
> Yes, NPP/TREN/DECA are big no-no's for fertility. The androgen/progestin combo shuts the HPTA down very hard. This is why you see extra testicular shrinkage in a lot of people who run 19-nors.
> 
> You're best bet is to bump that dose and try to get a response.


 I can confirm after running Tren I have no balls !!


----------



## ElChapo

Popeye66 said:


> I can confirm after running Tren I have no balls !!


 Yeah, same here. I was able to conceive during the tren run as well.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> It has recently come to my attention, that many years ago my uncle died from cardiac arrest due to the underlaying condition HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)
> 
> At the moment the welsh heart foundation (or maybe the nhs, i cant remember) are offering all family members that had a relative that had HCM free testing. Would it be worth me having the test, as theyre saying theres 50% chance of other family members having the condition, or as he was only my uncle will it only apply to his children? And as far as im aware my grandfather never had the HCM.


 It's not a bad idea, the more knowledge and data you have, the more prepared you are.

I don't know how the genetics for this condition work, it maybe a recessive trait, you may or may not have gotten the dna.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> It's not a bad idea, the more knowledge and data you have, the more prepared you are.
> 
> I don't know how the genetics for this condition work, it maybe a recessive trait, you may or may not have gotten the dna.


 My pals uncle died of this, the daughter has it and my pal she has also got it. From what I read when she was told at first, it can be nothing of concern, or the exact opposite...... No in between. Is this true?


----------



## Redsy

Little advice please. My buddy is looking like he is going to do a cycle. He doesn't know am on stuff.

I have concerns as he has a dodgy prostate and 54 yrs old. It would be mild cycle in today's standards. I kind of remember reading something in regard to prostate but never paid alot of attention as not an issue I have.

What is bad news and ill advised with a dodgy prostate? Basic test cycle ok? Bit of clen to help cut?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo is there a link between AAS use and brainfog?

I've been using test , at a cruise dose for a long time now , I sometimes added tbol at low dose too .

I've got some brainfogs , I'm also on 30mg raloxifene since months (20+ months) .

If I use nolvadex , my brainfogs get 5X worse and I 've got difficulty finding my words while talking(I guess from lower igf-1 levels) .
For exemple the use of creatine up the igf-1 levels by 20-30% and I seem to feel good while taking creatine but it make my hair fall faster from the high test levels conversion to DHT and gives acne too.

So I'm wondering if taking test for long time would cause brainfogs by inflammation or something else?

I've made a lot of healthy changes in my life since those last 24 months , no more stimulant like ECA , no T3 , no more nolva , no more alcohol or party drugs etc.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Baka said:


> @ElChapo is there a link between AAS use and brainfog?
> 
> I've been using test , at a cruise dose for a long time now , I sometimes added tbol at low dose too .
> 
> I've got some brainfogs , I'm also on 30mg raloxifene since months (20+ months) .
> 
> If I use nolvadex , my brainfogs get 5X worse and I 've got difficulty finding my words while talking(I guess from lower igf-1 levels) .
> For exemple the use of creatine up the igf-1 levels by 20-30% and I seem to feel good while taking creatine but it make my hair fall faster from the high test levels conversion to DHT and gives acne too.
> 
> So I'm wondering if taking test for long time would cause brainfogs by inflammation or something else?
> 
> I've made a lot of healthy changes in my life since those last 24 months , no more stimulant like ECA , no T3 , no more nolva , no more alcohol or party drugs etc.


 Does creatine really raise igf 1 by that much? Thats pretty crazy


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo I've been using Triumph Test cyp for self admin 125 per week for last 16-18 months. No issues. Once a year (around Summer) I get a few spots pop up on my chest, more like red bumps. Take some pharma isotretinoin (red soft-gels) ie 1-2 a day for 15-20 days max and all is sorted. No probs for a year. I don't blast/cruise. Stick to my 125 every 7 days. Probably hits up to 150 now and again.

Ran out of Triumph and used a TM test E last Monday. It's 2.5 - 3 years old. It's crashed a little but sorted it out in hot water. 125 pinned. Holy Christ I've never had so much acne appear under armpits in my life & in such a short time.

I've never had acne there, it's always been bumps on chest. Got them too but the armpits have a big patch of acne/rash under each armpit towards lats. Took some isotretinoin which has made it worse, I know this happens.

Any reason why this happens in such an extreme way from swapping labs?

Ordered zinc Picolinate. Applying Nizoral to area before bed, allowing to dry and leaving it.

Know of a ugl that has red soft gels but unsure if they're in business. Most will know who I mean. Not sure I want to risk ugl brand when I know the soft gels are so effective.

Thanks, mate.


----------



## Baka

Dannyb0yb said:


> Does creatine really raise igf 1 by that much? Thats pretty crazy


 yes it does , the best natural supplement for sport/bodybuilding to me


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I never ever said nolvadex increases progesterone on tren.
> 
> What i did say is that sometimes, ralox and nolva are ineffective for gyno while you are ON tren or deca. Ralox/Nolva will 100% work on tren gyno but only if you are completely off of tren/deca. If you are still running the compounds, there is no guarantee it will work.
> 
> There is no increase in progesterone. Trenbolone and deca behave like progesterones. They are not just androgens, they also bind to the progestin receptor which causes the gyno. For some reason, SERMs are able to reverse this gyno even though it's not estrogenic to begin with.
> 
> I know this because i ran experiments on myself with tren ace only cycles where i got gyno with 0 E2 levels and was able to reverse it completely with raloxifene in 8 weeks.
> 
> Nolva and ralox do not block progesterone but they are able to shrink and reverse gyno, but you can't be running the compound. It's a hit or miss, you can try but i haven't seen success stories of nolva blocking gyno on tren. If you are prone to gyno on tren, stop using tren unless you don't mind running nolva.ralox every time to reverse it. You don't need tren and it's vastly overrated.


 Finally I understand thank you lol.

Anadrol can cause gyno for some reason, will superdrol also maybe cause gyno? If not how much SD do you recommend if doing decent amount of test?


----------



## Baka

@zariph SD gave me gyno , but not the gyno from E2 , more kind of prog gyno ( fatty glandular tissue around the nipples , feels like fat but if you touch too much it itch and burn).

This kind of gyno never reversed for me , only the hard lump under the nipple reversed and easily with raloxifen.`

You can see a lot of bodybuilders who don't have visible lumps under their nipples but got big chest looking like tits even at 7% bf , their chest are rounder and bigger on the bottom . One exemple is Larry wheels chest


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> My pals uncle died of this, the daughter has it and my pal she has also got it. From what I read when she was told at first, it can be nothing of concern, or the exact opposite...... No in between. Is this true?


 Most likely a lifestyle factor. If you stay healthy, lean and active, it's probably alright, but i would have to do more research. Just google some pubmed articles.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Little advice please. My buddy is looking like he is going to do a cycle. He doesn't know am on stuff.
> 
> I have concerns as he has a dodgy prostate and 54 yrs old. It would be mild cycle in today's standards. I kind of remember reading something in regard to prostate but never paid alot of attention as not an issue I have.
> 
> What is bad news and ill advised with a dodgy prostate? Basic test cycle ok? Bit of clen to help cut?


 Dodgy prostate is not enough information. A lot of men in their 50s have enlarged prostates. Now if he has a history of neoplasm/growths/cancers, that's a different story.

They have linked low testosterone to prostate cancer as well, so it's a very complex topic, i would need more information and even then, it's beyond my scope of practice, but i could give you my opinion and thoughts, if i had more information on his prostate history.

If i were him, the first thing i would do is run total testosterone/E2/IGF-1 labs to get an idea of his baseline. He might just be better off going on TRT if he has bad levels instead of blasting one time and returning to shitty testosterone levels. He should get some labs first.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo is there a link between AAS use and brainfog?
> 
> I've been using test , at a cruise dose for a long time now , I sometimes added tbol at low dose too .
> 
> I've got some brainfogs , I'm also on 30mg raloxifene since months (20+ months) .
> 
> If I use nolvadex , my brainfogs get 5X worse and I 've got difficulty finding my words while talking(I guess from lower igf-1 levels) .
> For exemple the use of creatine up the igf-1 levels by 20-30% and I seem to feel good while taking creatine but it make my hair fall faster from the high test levels conversion to DHT and gives acne too.
> 
> So I'm wondering if taking test for long time would cause brainfogs by inflammation or something else?
> 
> I've made a lot of healthy changes in my life since those last 24 months , no more stimulant like ECA , no T3 , no more nolva , no more alcohol or party drugs etc.


 Yes, there can be. Many on high testosterone cruise levels and blasts can get a feeling of brain fog/lethargy and supraphysiological levels of testosterone have been linked to impaired verbal memory and fluency, so there is an optimal level for cognitive function.

Ralox and Nolva can cause brain fog, so i would likely attribute to the ralox. It can block and activate estrogen receptors in the brain which can effect mood and cognition.

Why have you been running Ralox for almost 2 years straight? This is probably the answer to your question.

If you have chronic gyno, either cut out the offending compounds that cause it for you or get the glands removed. Running a SERM for that long is risky to your health.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Does creatine really raise igf 1 by that much? Thats pretty crazy


 Some studies do show a modest increase.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15870625


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> @ElChapo I've been using Triumph Test cyp for self admin 125 per week for last 16-18 months. No issues. Once a year (around Summer) I get a few spots pop up on my chest, more like red bumps. Take some pharma isotretinoin (red soft-gels) ie 1-2 a day for 15-20 days max and all is sorted. No probs for a year. I don't blast/cruise. Stick to my 125 every 7 days. Probably hits up to 150 now and again.
> 
> Ran out of Triumph and used a TM test E last Monday. It's 2.5 - 3 years old. It's crashed a little but sorted it out in hot water. 125 pinned. Holy Christ I've never had so much acne appear under armpits in my life & in such a short time.
> 
> I've never had acne there, it's always been bumps on chest. Got them too but the armpits have a big patch of acne/rash under each armpit towards lats. Took some isotretinoin which has made it worse, I know this happens.
> 
> Any reason why this happens in such an extreme way from swapping labs?
> 
> Ordered zinc Picolinate. Applying Nizoral to area before bed, allowing to dry and leaving it.
> 
> Know of a ugl that has red soft gels but unsure if they're in business. Most will know who I mean. Not sure I want to risk ugl brand when I know the soft gels are so effective.
> 
> Thanks, mate.


 I would assume one lab is either underdosed or overdosed which is common with UGL labels, especially for testosterone, which is extremely cheap. (the raw powders)

The zinc and nizoral should do the trick for mild acne, give the nizoral a few weeks because it takes time to work. Tanning is also effective.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Finally I understand thank you lol.
> 
> Anadrol can cause gyno for some reason, will superdrol also maybe cause gyno? If not how much SD do you recommend if doing decent amount of test?


 No worries, it can get confusing.

I've seen anecdotes of sdrol causing gyno and anadrol. They are not supposed to, but that's the name of game. Something don't make any sense scientifically or have no explanation (like test prop causing less water retention).

SD injectable i've had great results with at 40 mg x 3 per week. If using orals, 20 mg daily is a solid dose, you could even bump to 40 mg daily for advanced users with experience using sdrol. The main sides are fatigue and loss of appetite, but it pumps you up, dries you out and increases strength. One of my top rated anabolics, no question.


----------



## swole troll

Is your protein reccomendation of 1g per lb of lean body weight for both cutting and bulking and is this direct sources (meats, certain dairy, fish ect) or is this all sources (the 8g found in couple slices of bread for example)


----------



## zariph

Baka said:


> @zariph SD gave me gyno , but not the gyno from E2 , more kind of prog gyno ( fatty glandular tissue around the nipples , feels like fat but if you touch too much it itch and burn).
> 
> This kind of gyno never reversed for me , only the hard lump under the nipple reversed and easily with raloxifen.`
> 
> You can see a lot of bodybuilders who don't have visible lumps under their nipples but got big chest looking like tits even at 7% bf , their chest are rounder and bigger on the bottom . One exemple is Larry wheels chest


 Thank you, exactly what worries me as anadrol gives me gyno. I cant see that larry has gyno at all, if thats what you are saying?



ElChapo said:


> No worries, it can get confusing.
> 
> I've seen anecdotes of sdrol causing gyno and anadrol. They are not supposed to, but that's the name of game. Something don't make any sense scientifically or have no explanation (like test prop causing less water retention).
> 
> SD injectable i've had great results with at 40 mg x 3 per week. If using orals, 20 mg daily is a solid dose, you could even bump to 40 mg daily for advanced users with experience using sdrol. The main sides are fatigue and loss of appetite, but it pumps you up, dries you out and increases strength. One of my top rated anabolics, no question.


 Thank you, I get gyno on anadrol so will this most likely also happen on SD? Also can you use nolva while on SD or is this the same concept as tren/deca?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Is your protein reccomendation of 1g per lb of lean body weight for both cutting and bulking and is this direct sources (meats, certain dairy, fish ect) or is this all sources (the 8g found in couple slices of bread for example)


 For cutting, 1-1.5 grams per lbs of LBM. The higher end is for better satiety and when cutting at very low body fat, but this is mitigated greatly if using AAS. All sources count.

Research (and my own experience) show that plant protein is actually quiet effective as a protein source. Pea protein was found to be just as good as whey with better digestibility.

As for bulking, protein requirement are actually lower and 0.8 grams per lbs of LBM is the minimum. Once you hit a certain threshold of amino acids, the most important thing is being in an energy surplus to build new tissue, this is easier when protein is not too high, as protein is very filling/satiating. Many know that hitting calories on a bulk is sometimes harder than the actual training.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, exactly what worries me as anadrol gives me gyno. I cant see that larry has gyno at all, if thats what you are saying?
> 
> Thank you, I get gyno on anadrol so will this most likely also happen on SD? Also can you use nolva while on SD or is this the same concept as tren/deca?


 Most pics of Larry Wheels on google don't show any gyno at all. He's very bottom heavy in his pecs, which creates a droopy appearance. He's a powerlifter, so lots of flat benching which prioritizes the bottom pecs more than the top half.

There are times when gyno is so severe it kind of blends in with the muscle, and i have seen this myself. Look at this example:


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, exactly what worries me as anadrol gives me gyno. I cant see that larry has gyno at all, if thats what you are saying?
> 
> Thank you, I get gyno on anadrol so will this most likely also happen on SD? Also can you use nolva while on SD or is this the same concept as tren/deca?


 I don't know if Nolva will work on sdrol. Like i said, it's hit or miss when it comes to 19-nors but idk the mechanism behind the sdrol gyno. It's likely that a metabolite of superdrol has progestin or estrogen like effects. That's the most likely reason.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Yes, there can be. Many on high testosterone cruise levels and blasts can get a feeling of brain fog/lethargy and supraphysiological levels of testosterone have been linked to impaired verbal memory and fluency, so there is an optimal level for cognitive function.
> 
> Ralox and Nolva can cause brain fog, so i would likely attribute to the ralox. It can block and activate estrogen receptors in the brain which can effect mood and cognition.
> 
> Why have you been running Ralox for almost 2 years straight? This is probably the answer to your question.
> 
> If you have chronic gyno, either cut out the offending compounds that cause it for you or get the glands removed. Running a SERM for that long is risky to your health.


 i see , I'll think about lowering to 150mg of test/week.

Well I thought about it many times, but canceled it ; it's hard for me atm to get 2-3k to use for cutting gyno.

i ll stop ralox from tomorrow for a week and see if it changes something.

Thanks


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Most pics of Larry Wheels on google don't show any gyno at all. He's very bottom heavy in his pecs, which creates a droopy appearance. He's a powerlifter, so lots of flat benching which prioritizes the bottom pecs more than the top half.
> 
> There are times when gyno is so severe it kind of blends in with the muscle, and i have seen this myself. Look at this example:


 exactly , that s what I have but with less breast tissue.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> You can easily maintain with 2-3 hard sets per body part. A good two day split example:
> 
> Day 1:
> 
> Squat or leg press to failure 5-15 reps x 2-3 sets & Full ROM Weighted chin ups ( same rep/set range, this hits biceps and lats)
> 
> Day 2:
> 
> Bench press 5-15 reps x 2-3 sets & rows w/ barbell or cables/machine
> 
> Muscle groups only have to be hit once per week to maintain strength and mass. Higher reps and higher frequency can give you a little extra pump to the muscle, but this is purely sarcoplamic and temporary. It takes about 3-4 weeks of no training to start losing strength, but sometimes muscle will appear smaller sooner due to loss of sarcoplasm, this comes back when you start training.
> 
> Glutamine is garbage. EAAs or BCAA can help. A slight edge to EAAs but both are fine. 5-15 grams pre-workout or through training. Honestly though, Whey protein will do the same thing.


 Is It a problem in terms of maintaining if I am only hitting the muscles directly every 9th to 10th day?


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> I would assume one lab is either underdosed or overdosed which is common with UGL labels, especially for testosterone, which is extremely cheap. (the raw powders)
> 
> The zinc and nizoral should do the trick for mild acne, give the nizoral a few weeks because it takes time to work. Tanning is also effective.


 After using AP before it went pop, I went onto TM. Same thing happened with the red bumps. Got them under control after 3-4 weeks using accutane mentioned above.

I'll stick with nizoral/zinc (arriving tomorrow) for a week/2. See what happens. It's 34-36 degrees Celsius in London over the next few days. They'll think I'm mental walking into a tanning salon lol.

As always, thanks mate.


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo what would be the best course of action for teen (non steroid induced) gyno.

It's very mild and it may be best to just leave it, however if there is a solution I'd be interested to hear it as I was looking to potentially start a cycle in the future. Only Test Prop and Anavar so no 19nors in case, as I've done the research.

Thanks

LT


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Btw, i just read a study today that proves HGH does deplete T4 levels in the body, but that's because it significantly increases conversion to T3. This is believed to partially create some of the positive effects on metabolism, skin, etc from HGH administration.
> 
> So it COULD explain your heart symptoms in one way, if perhaps the GH was overdosed or something. Just a theory, because i've seen your issue before in HGH users.
> 
> There are some generics that are overdosed greatly, i've seen tests showing almost double the expected concentration.


 I also read this a while ago.

would supplementing T4 counteract it?

What dose?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> i see , I'll think about lowering to 150mg of test/week.
> 
> Well I thought about it many times, but canceled it ; it's hard for me atm to get 2-3k to use for cutting gyno.
> 
> i ll stop ralox from tomorrow for a week and see if it changes something.
> 
> Thanks


 You need to stop running ralox, it makes sense you feel off.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Is It a problem in terms of maintaining if I am only hitting the muscles directly every 9th to 10th day?


 That will still work, but the intensity has to be at least 90%. So if you want to maintain your pecs, and your max bench is 225 lbs x 12 reps, then you gotta hit that about once a week or so.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> After using AP before it went pop, I went onto TM. Same thing happened with the red bumps. Got them under control after 3-4 weeks using accutane mentioned above.
> 
> I'll stick with nizoral/zinc (arriving tomorrow) for a week/2. See what happens. It's 34-36 degrees Celsius in London over the next few days. They'll think I'm mental walking into a tanning salon lol.
> 
> As always, thanks mate.


 Nizoral and zinc will take some time, you should give it a few weeks to start working. You can always tan outside too if you have enough sunlight for it.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo what would be the best course of action for teen (non steroid induced) gyno.
> 
> It's very mild and it may be best to just leave it, however if there is a solution I'd be interested to hear it as I was looking to potentially start a cycle in the future. Only Test Prop and Anavar so no 19nors in case, as I've done the research.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> LT


 Get some raloxifene or nolvadex, run it for 8-12 weeks. The gyno has a 90% chance of going away completely. This has been proven in studies and my own personal experience as well a ton of other people online. Ralox at 60 mg daily and nolvadex at 20 mg daily.

There really isn't any risk, so it's not a bad idea.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I also read this a while ago.
> 
> would supplementing T4 counteract it?
> 
> What dose?
> 
> Thanks


 No, if anything , it would make it worse.

High T3 levels can cause heart symptoms via hyperthyroidism, if you add T4, the T3 will go up as well.

I would just try a different brand since you've only experienced it on one brand.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Get some raloxifene or nolvadex, run it for 8-12 weeks. The gyno has a 90% chance of going away completely. This has been proven in studies and my own personal experience as well a ton of other people online. Ralox at 60 mg daily and nolvadex at 20 mg daily.
> 
> There really isn't any risk, so it's not a bad idea.


 Thanks Sir, I'll give that a blast it is mild and doesn't cause any day to day issues or embarrassment but if I can get rid of some/all of it with a quick dose of basic AI with no side effects then as you say - not a bad idea at all.

LT


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Thanks Sir, I'll give that a blast it is mild and doesn't cause any day to day issues or embarrassment but if I can get rid of some/all of it with a quick dose of basic AI with no side effects then as you say - not a bad idea at all.
> 
> LT


 Yeah, just remember nolvadex/raloxifene are not AI/Aromatase inhibitors. They are SERM/Selective estrogen receptor modulators.

AI blocks the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen. SERM can act as an estrogen itself and bind to the estrogen receptor, or block estrogen from binding to the receptor. Nolva/ralox block estrogen from binding to the gyno estrogen receptors, so the tissue dies. AI doesn't work on gyno because the gyno tissue can still convert it's own estrogen inside the cells.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, just remember nolvadex/raloxifene are not AI/Aromatase inhibitors. They are SERM/Selective estrogen receptor modulators.
> 
> AI blocks the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen. SERM can act as an estrogen itself and bind to the estrogen receptor, or block estrogen from binding to the receptor. Nolva/ralox block estrogen from binding to the gyno estrogen receptors, so the tissue dies. AI doesn't work on gyno because the gyno tissue can still convert it's own estrogen inside the cells.


 Sorry I meant to put AE there, however I didn't know the differences between the two in terms of an easy explanation like that! so my error has got me some bonus knowledge B)


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I don't know if Nolva will work on sdrol. Like i said, it's hit or miss when it comes to 19-nors but idk the mechanism behind the sdrol gyno. It's likely that a metabolite of superdrol has progestin or estrogen like effects. That's the most likely reason.


 Does drol need to be taking with food or is it okay to take it without? Also just 20mg once a day or would you split? Could also try winny instead as it doesnt cause gyno, how does winny compare to supderdrol or anadrol in terms of strength and muscle tissue? I thought winny=strength+dryness, anadrol=strength+mass, SD=strength`?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Does drol need to be taking with food or is it okay to take it without? Also just 20mg once a day or would you split? Could also try winny instead as it doesnt cause gyno, how does winny compare to supderdrol or anadrol in terms of strength and muscle tissue? I thought winny=strength+dryness, anadrol=strength+mass, SD=strength`?


 With our without food is fine. Once a day will do the job, no need to split.

Winstrol will dry you out more. Superdrol wins for pump and mass. They are my two favorite AAS after testosterone propionate. Not an anadrol fan, i'm not a fan of watery AAS.

SD has a mild drying effect, but not as strong as winstrol.

Winstrol: Drying, lean mass, strength SDROL: milder drying but more pump, lean mass and strength.

I've only used Superdrol injectable and was blown away. I did not expect it to be that effective. It's definitely underrated.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> With our without food is fine. Once a day will do the job, no need to split.
> 
> Winstrol will dry you out more. Superdrol wins for pump and mass. They are my two favorite AAS after testosterone propionate. Not an anadrol fan, i'm not a fan of watery AAS.
> 
> SD has a mild drying effect, but not as strong as winstrol.
> 
> Winstrol: Drying, lean mass, strength SDROL: milder drying but more pump, lean mass and strength.
> 
> I've only used Superdrol injectable and was blown away. I did not expect it to be that effective. It's definitely underrated.


 Nice will give one of those a try, winny+test seems like a decent manageable cycle in terms of side effects, where as SD can be a bit harder to run I guess?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice will give one of those a try, winny+test seems like a decent manageable cycle in terms of side effects, where as SD can be a bit harder to run I guess?


 Sdrol sides are usually just lethargy and appetite loss, nothing like tren with a laundry list of physical and mental side effects. It's not bad at all.


----------



## Popeye66

@ElChapo superdrol, orals or injectable. How long would you recommend to run them?


----------



## ElChapo

Popeye66 said:


> @ElChapo superdrol, orals or injectable. How long would you recommend to run them?


 Either is fine, i would run if for a full 12 weeks. Run TUDCA and NAC if liver toxicity is a concern. 250/1000 mg of each respectively.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> Dodgy prostate is not enough information. A lot of men in their 50s have enlarged prostates. Now if he has a history of neoplasm/growths/cancers, that's a different story.
> 
> They have linked low testosterone to prostate cancer as well, so it's a very complex topic, i would need more information and even then, it's beyond my scope of practice, but i could give you my opinion and thoughts, if i had more information on his prostate history.
> 
> If i were him, the first thing i would do is run total testosterone/E2/IGF-1 labs to get an idea of his baseline. He might just be better off going on TRT if he has bad levels instead of blasting one time and returning to shitty testosterone levels. He should get some labs first.


 He has had all clear with prostate, just enlarged. As you say he was told as above 50 nothing to worry about.

Hes looking for a moderate type, test only, test and other compound but as endurance related like me - tri-athelete, its more 150mg/TRT type levels we are talking. I just want to help advise as much as possible if hes going to do it and make sure he understands risks of affecting test levels etc long term

Ill tell him to get bloods done first.

Would this do him ok? https://www.medichecks.com/tests/male-hormone-check

No IGF-1 but dont think hes looking at GH so is it relevant or required?


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> He has had all clear with prostate, just enlarged. As you say he was told as above 50 nothing to worry about.
> 
> Hes looking for a moderate type, test only, test and other compound but as endurance related like me - tri-athelete, its more 150mg/TRT type levels we are talking. I just want to help advise as much as possible if hes going to do it and make sure he understands risks of affecting test levels etc long term
> 
> Ill tell him to get bloods done first.
> 
> Would this do him ok? https://www.medichecks.com/tests/male-hormone-check
> 
> No IGF-1 but dont think hes looking at GH so is it relevant or required?


 He can save a ton of money by just getting Total testosterone, E2, and IGF-1. A bonus would be to throw in TSH/Free T4/Free T3 to get baseline thyroid. The rest is pretty worthless.

No need for the other stuff like DHEA, prolactin, lh/fsh, etc.

IGF-1 is good to look at because lower levels mean you will age quicker. One of the reasons people get wrinkles, higher body fat and lower muscle mass in old age is decreased IGF-1 because of decreased HGH. So it's good for him to know his IGF-1 level, at least get it tested one time to see where he's at. Some older people actually have pretty decent levels, same with test.

You want IGF-1 at least over 150, but 200s or higher is best for performance and anti-aging.


----------



## stewedw

Re above.

What other things can you do or take to increase IGF-1?


----------



## woolymaggot

ElChapo said:


> Here is what i think your problem is:
> 
> 1hr medium intensity stationary bike or shadow boxing fasted cardio every day (struggle with anything else) followed by ice on knees and hips.
> 
> 50 grams of carbs daily (from fibrous carbs)
> 
> 1. Too much cardio 2. Not enough starchy carbs
> 
> 1. Cut the cardio back to 30 minutes a day, Monday-Friday and take the weekends off completely.
> 
> 2. Increase your carb intake. Starchy carbs like rice, potato, pasta, etc. These are important to keep liver and muscle glycogen stores filled and also for optimal serotonin levels in the brain. Low carb diet will impair your T4 to T3 conversion. These diets mimic starvation in your body, the body compensates by shutting the metabolism down by inhibiting conversion and deiodination of T4 to T3.
> 
> Low carb is very stressful to the body. Initially people feel euphoric and energized because your body release adrenaline in response to the stress to mobilize fat stores for energy, and this makes you feel good for a while. Eventually you just burn out and feel like s**t. I've been there with the keto BS and it's garbage.
> 
> A good example of a proponent of higher carb intake is Mike O'Hearn, he's extremely strong, very lean and amazing physique. I also believe he's 50 years old or so. My own personal experience and my knowledge of nutrition & physiology will agree with Mike's.
> 
> Final note: Don't avoid caffeine or coffee, there is nothing inherently bad about it, but it offers multiple health benefits for alzheimers, diabetes, cancer prevention, etc. There are more positives than negatives. If you quit stimulants like coffee cold turkey, you are going to have a very shitty experience for a while.


 @El Chapo thanks for the advice.

It took over 2 weeks before I could do anything and that involved a kick start with extra coffee.

I'm still not recovered but I'm getting regular sleep and have increased starchy carbs along with increasing the carb ratio. No more keto for me. My exercise is still limited at the moment but I'm doing some to ensure I can effectively gauge my recovery to normal status. A balancing act.

Hopefully the results below have attached and as you can see, my free t4 is below normal. The advice I received was consistent with yours that low carb diet etc could well have contributed. The consultant also proposed the potential that my thyroid could be becoming under active but no action advised and retest in 6 to 8 weeks. The test was performed at 8am and fasted.

Your point that TSH on its own should not be relied on was ironically was echoed by my GP and consultants yet that is what they have been advised to test in the UK now.... brilliant!

I'll read up on some of your posts and material on thyroid hormones as I do recall you referring to low t4 in previous posts. I expected my T3 to be low so need to understand if it's actually a problem and whether one test is sufficient to draw any conclusions at this point.

June 2017 my TSH was 1.13 and my T4 was 12.27. Although both within normal range, they appear low. The latest seems to indicate a further decline in T4 to 9.38. Difficult to conclude anything with my existing knowledge but wonder if my pituitary is functioning fine. A further test in a few weeks may provide a more informed picture.

Any advice you have will be greatly appreciated and again, thanks for taking the time out to do this.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Re above.
> 
> What other things can you do or take to increase IGF-1?


 I recommend a high quality generic HGH, prices and quality are very good right now. That's the best way and HGH appears to have its own benefits independent of IGF-1 increases.

1-3 IU is good for most people, you want igf-1 at least at 250. I aim to for 300s, which is the young adult level. Benefits include improved mood and wellbeing, strong erections, easier abdominal fat loss and better recovery from training and injuries.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hi Mate,

Sorry for all the questions, one more I promise. A lot of people seem to recommend taking hgh at 1iu 4-5 times a day, but with each of these injections including 2-3iu of slin? does this boost igf1 levels further? I'm just confused as to why people would do it...


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> @El Chapo thanks for the advice.
> 
> It took over 2 weeks before I could do anything and that involved a kick start with extra coffee.
> 
> I'm still not recovered but I'm getting regular sleep and have increased starchy carbs along with increasing the carb ratio. No more keto for me. My exercise is still limited at the moment but I'm doing some to ensure I can effectively gauge my recovery to normal status. A balancing act.
> 
> Hopefully the results below have attached and as you can see, my free t4 is below normal. The advice I received was consistent with yours that low carb diet etc could well have contributed. The consultant also proposed the potential that my thyroid could be becoming under active but no action advised and retest in 6 to 8 weeks. The test was performed at 8am and fasted.
> 
> Your point that TSH on its own should not be relied on was ironically was echoed by my GP and consultants yet that is what they have been advised to test in the UK now.... brilliant!
> 
> I'll read up on some of your posts and material on thyroid hormones as I do recall you referring to low t4 in previous posts. I expected my T3 to be low so need to understand if it's actually a problem and whether one test is sufficient to draw any conclusions at this point.
> 
> June 2017 my TSH was 1.13 and my T4 was 12.27. Although both within normal range, they appear low. The latest seems to indicate a further decline in T4 to 9.38. Difficult to conclude anything with my existing knowledge but wonder if my pituitary is functioning fine. A further test in a few weeks may provide a more informed picture.
> 
> Any advice you have will be greatly appreciated and again, thanks for taking the time out to do this.
> 
> View attachment 173473


 Its not your pituitary because you are producing TSH. Usually its free T3 that gets lower when you low carb.

You appear to have the same type of hypothyroidism as my father. Normal TSH but very low T4.

Free T4 is linked to wellbeing, more so than Free T3 contrary to popular belief in online. Free T4 is not just an "inactive" hormone, it serves its own functions that T3 can't do. Certain cells can't use serum T3 as well as T4.

You can try the higher carbs and re-test, but its 50/50 if they will help. You can try Levothyroxine if Free T4 is still low. 100-150 mcg is a good starting dose, you want to bring it up the top of the range.

Take it in the morning, fasted and wait 30 mins to 1 hour before tea, coffee, food or supplements. Water is fine.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, one more I promise. A lot of people seem to recommend taking hgh at 1iu 4-5 times a day, but with each of these injections including 2-3iu of slin? does this boost igf1 levels further? I'm just confused as to why people would do it...


 Ridiculous

Just take once a day, if the dose is bigger than 5 IU, you could split it to morning and night.

Trying to time HGH with training doesn't work because IGF and HGH work during rest and recovery period. Just take once or twice a day whenever is most convenient for you.

Insulin should be timed around training because that's when insulin sensitivity is highest and muscles are primed to absorb nutrients.

They do it because broscience. Some broscience is legit but this is not. They don't understand the physiology (not their fault) its easy to assume HGH before or right after a workout would help gains.


----------



## S123

ElChapo said:


> Ridiculous
> 
> Just take once a day, if the dose is bigger than 5 IU, you could split it to morning and night.
> 
> Trying to time HGH with training doesn't work because IGF and HGH work during rest and recovery period. Just take once or twice a day whenever is most convenient for you.
> 
> Insulin should be timed around training because that's when insulin sensitivity is highest and muscles are primed to absorb nutrients.
> 
> They do it because broscience. Some broscience is legit but this is not. They don't understand the physiology (not their fault) its easy to assume HGH before or right after a workout would help gains.


 I figured, the idea of shooting 3iu of insulin with 1iu of hgh made no sense to me either, it was mentioned it prolongs igf1 levels but I was struggling to see how that works, the idea was to get them to peak at the same time


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> I figured, the idea of shooting 3iu of insulin with 1iu of hgh made no sense to me either, it was mentioned it prolongs igf1 levels but I was struggling to see how that works, the idea was to get them to peak at the same time


 Yeah, it just doesn't work that way. IGF-1 can take a few weeks to actually reach maximum concentration when you start taking HGH. That's why it's good to wait about 4 weeks after starting GH to read igf-1 levels to see the increase.


----------



## wilko1985

@ElChapo hope you're well .

Just had my Testosterone blood results back. I recently switched over to Pharmacon Test at 150mg a week. I only do TRT, but for future dosing reference, do these blood levels look as expected for 150mg? Blood was drawn 3.5 days after injection.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo how do you have clients rest/recover? I understand everyone is different but in general how many rest days do you see as optimal?

There's so many conflicting stories, people saying only train each part part once per then others say train lagging parts 2-3 times per week

if you was to stick to push/pull/legs, do you see the 2 days you're not using them muscles as enough time to recover and build tissue? Could you train non stop until you feel you need a rest?

I generally train mon/fri sticking to push/pull/legs but sometimes if bored and up early I've gone through weekend too without a day off which some will say is defo over training. although I'm still progressing i do wonder sometimes if I would make better progression forcing myself to have more rest days?

On cycle that is!


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> @ElChapo hope you're well .
> 
> Just had my Testosterone blood results back. I recently switched over to Pharmacon Test at 150mg a week. I only do TRT, but for future dosing reference, do these blood levels look as expected for 150mg? Blood was drawn 3.5 days after injection.
> 
> View attachment 173487


 Those numbers look about right. The serum levels from a specific dose will vary depending on your genetic metabolism of testosterone and even the administration route. SubQ and IM have different pharmacokinetics and so do different injections sites ( glutes vs delts, etc.) So there's a few variables that can affect on person's response to the same exact compound.

IM and delts tend to have higher and faster absorption than Subq and glutes which have lower peaks and slower absorption.

Pharmacom is legit, i've never seen anything bad spoken about them and before i brewed my own oils, i had ran them before with great results. They are pricier than average, but they have a great rep and their packaging looks cool. They were one of the first to add guaiacol to testosterone propionate to reduce PIP which i do with my own homebrew and it works.

The general rule of thumb is to multiply your weekly mg dose and multiple by x 5-10. This is for total testosterone with the NG/DL measurement for enanthate and cypionate, generally, it's fairly accurate, but some people are outliers even with pharmaceutical testosterone preparations.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo how do you have clients rest/recover? I understand everyone is different but in general how many rest days do you see as optimal?
> 
> There's so many conflicting stories, people saying only train each part part once per then others say train lagging parts 2-3 times per week
> 
> if you was to stick to push/pull/legs, do you see the 2 days you're not using them muscles as enough time to recover and build tissue? Could you train non stop until you feel you need a rest?
> 
> I generally train mon/fri sticking to push/pull/legs but sometimes if bored and up early I've gone through weekend too without a day off which some will say is defo over training. although I'm still progressing i do wonder sometimes if I would make better progression forcing myself to have more rest days?
> 
> On cycle that is!


 The rule of thumb is at least 24-48 hours per body per part. This will depend on the training intensity and routine/split being used. Someone training very heavy squats can take as much as 7-10 days for full recovery, but someone doing german volume training or high rep work can hit these same squats with a much higher frequency, that's why i say it's context dependent.

The best way to gauge if recovery is sufficient or not is to go by progression and results. If you are getting stuck and are plateauing on your weights and reps, it's likely that the muscle is not getting enough time to recover (or it's diet related/not enough calories or carbs). So as long as you are still progressing, keep doing what you are doing, but getting stuck is a good sign that maybe you need to cut back on volume or frequency because recovery and rest is just as important to diet and training to get results.

If you are progressing, then you are golden. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Those numbers look about right. The serum levels from a specific dose will vary depending on your genetic metabolism of testosterone and even the administration route. SubQ and IM have different pharmacokinetics and so do different injections sites ( glutes vs delts, etc.) So there's a few variables that can affect on person's response to the same exact compound.
> 
> IM and delts tend to have higher and faster absorption than Subq and glutes which have lower peaks and slower absorption.
> 
> Pharmacom is legit, i've never seen anything bad spoken about them and before i brewed my own oils, i had ran them before with great results. They are pricier than average, but they have a great rep and their packaging looks cool. They were one of the first to add guaiacol to testosterone propionate to reduce PIP which i do with my own homebrew and it works.
> 
> The general rule of thumb is to multiply your weekly mg dose and multiple by x 5-10. This is for total testosterone with the NG/DL measurement for enanthate and cypionate, generally, it's fairly accurate, but some people are outliers even with pharmaceutical testosterone preparations.


 Awesome thanks pal. Yep I've been super happy with pharmacon in the past. I have their primo for a small blast in a couple of months. I'd rather pay the extra to get accurately dosed products


----------



## PolishPaddy

For me the split is biggest confusion even after many year training with good gains.

I have big friend who is natty and he just training arms one day, back one day, legs one day etc... He look amazing.

Then the many guru online say best to hit each muscle 2 time per week like upper lower upper lower.

I never feel burn out from 5 day split so after 3 or 4 month i go back on upper lower.

What you guys thinking, have many of you got great look from 5 day split?

I gonna training natutal for future probably as i have major problem with bracial and medial nerve


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Ridiculous
> 
> Just take once a day, if the dose is bigger than 5 IU, you could split it to morning and night.
> 
> Trying to time HGH with training doesn't work because IGF and HGH work during rest and recovery period. Just take once or twice a day whenever is most convenient for you.
> 
> Insulin should be timed around training because that's when insulin sensitivity is highest and muscles are primed to absorb nutrients.
> 
> They do it because broscience. Some broscience is legit but this is not. They don't understand the physiology (not their fault) its easy to assume HGH before or right after a workout would help gains.


 I actually saw a danish study (forgive me, I cant find the link where its translated to english, I know its available tho), where they concluded that training with circulating levels of exogenous HGH signifcantly increased the production of collagen.

http://news.bodylab.dk/vidensbank/nyt-fra-forskerne/2881-vaeksthormon-til-sportsskader

Off topic fun fact; ipamorelin was actually invented by novo nordisk, a danish drug company lol


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I actually saw a danish study (forgive me, I cant find the link where its translated to english, I know its available tho), where they concluded that training with circulating levels of exogenous HGH signifcantly increased the production of collagen.
> 
> http://news.bodylab.dk/vidensbank/nyt-fra-forskerne/2881-vaeksthormon-til-sportsskader
> 
> Off topic fun fact; ipamorelin was actually invented by novo nordisk, a danish drug company lol


 Interesting


----------



## ElChapo

PolishPaddy said:


> For me the split is biggest confusion even after many year training with good gains.
> 
> I have big friend who is natty and he just training arms one day, back one day, legs one day etc... He look amazing.
> 
> Then the many guru online say best to hit each muscle 2 time per week like upper lower upper lower.
> 
> I never feel burn out from 5 day split so after 3 or 4 month i go back on upper lower.
> 
> What you guys thinking, have many of you got great look from 5 day split?
> 
> I gonna training natutal for future probably as i have major problem with bracial and medial nerve


 As long as you follow the three fundamentals, the split doesn't matter too much. 1. Progressive overload 2. Nutrition(enough cals/protein) 3. Rest & recovery

Don't forget that how you look and your response to training (and AAS) also has a strong genetic component. Some people genetically have a tougher time building muscle, but most of the time the problem is a lack of proper training knowledge.


----------



## PolishPaddy

ElChapo said:


> As long as you follow the three fundamentals, the split doesn't matter too much. 1. Progressive overload 2. Nutrition(enough cals/protein) 3. Rest & recovery
> 
> Don't forget that how you look and your response to training (and AAS) also has a strong genetic component. Some people genetically have a tougher time building muscle, but most of the time the problem is a lack of proper training knowledge.


 Thanks


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Sdrol sides are usually just lethargy and appetite loss, nothing like tren with a laundry list of physical and mental side effects. It's not bad at all.


 Okay.

Just to be sure -

test will raise estogen so you need an AI, will deca will do this too, but is it same rate as test or will it aromatize more/less? Tren wont increase estrogen at all, so no need for increase the ai when using tren?

So if 500test = 1mg adex, adding 400mg tren ai dose should still be 1mg adex right?

But if on 500 test and adding 500deca, you most like need to add more AI?

Also will 40mg nolva ED decrease IGF-1 that it actually matters?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay.
> 
> Just to be sure -
> 
> test will raise estogen so you need an AI, will deca will do this too, but is it same rate as test or will it aromatize more/less? Tren wont increase estrogen at all, so no need for increase the ai when using tren?
> 
> So if 500test = 1mg adex, adding 400mg tren ai dose should still be 1mg adex right?
> 
> But if on 500 test and adding 500deca, you most like need to add more AI?
> 
> Also will 40mg nolva ED decrease IGF-1 that it actually matters?


 Some people don't need AI for two reasons on testosterone. Either they don't make too much estrogen, or high estrogen levels don't bother them and cause no symptoms. We have a problem in the UG bodybuilding & TRT community with overusing AI. People are starting to realize it's better to have a little extra estrogen than very low levels for health, wellbeing and performance.

Deca aromatizes less to E2 BUT it has strong progestin effects, so the progestin is a feminizing hormone like estradiol. This is why DECA and tren can cause gyno, even with 0 estradiol in the blood.

Yeah, 500 mg Test + 1 mg AI is not a bad ratio, some people need less, some need more and some need none at all. Tren can cause gyno even with zero estrogen in the body because of it's ability to bind and activate the progesterone receptors in the mammary glands. Thankfully, Nolvadex and raloxifen work on 19-nor induced progesterone.

500+500 test/deca would likely need more AI, but it depends on your genetics. 1-2 mg for starters.

I do not believe the decrease in IGF-1 from Nolvadex will affect gains too much, a lot of high level bodybuilders run Nolvadex in their cycles and have great results. Nolvadex can cause brain fog and other weird symptoms though, and it's been shown to be neurotoxic too. I would not run it long-term or year round. It is excellent for gyno though.

The reason it's neurotoxic is probably because it blocks estrogen receptors in the brain. The brain needs estrogen for optimal health. They say one of the reasons men and women experience cognitive decline in old age is due to lower estrogen levels (and also HGH/testosterone/thyroid)


----------



## Will2309

@ElChapo

I will put this in here as well, can I have you input please.

Morning,

Pinned 1ml test e into left delt on monday and yesterday it started to hurt like pip pain but woke up this morning feeling abit shitty.

Delt is hard to touch with a little swelling and painful when touched or moved, but it's not red. Infection???

When ever I get a throat infection i get this horrible taste in my mouth and lower back ache which I have now.

Should I leave it a few days to see if gets better or worst. ?

Never been in a situation like this do unsure what to do.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I will put this in here as well, can I have you input please.
> 
> Morning,
> 
> Pinned 1ml test e into left delt on monday and yesterday it started to hurt like pip pain but woke up this morning feeling abit shitty.
> 
> Delt is hard to touch with a little swelling and painful when touched or moved, but it's not red. Infection???
> 
> When ever I get a throat infection i get this horrible taste in my mouth and lower back ache which I have now.
> 
> Should I leave it a few days to see if gets better or worst. ?
> 
> Never been in a situation like this do unsure what to do.


 Most likely subq leak, happens all the time. It's PIP flu. Have you used this oil before without an issue? Did you swab the area with alcohol?

Most of the time, it's just the oil leaking subq causing inflammation and flu like symptoms, not infection. It's a good idea to count to 20 seconds slowly before pulling out the needle, this lets the oil dissipate into the muscle lowers the risk of leaking, i found this cut back on most of the PIP issues i had.

Take 400 mg ibuprofen every 4-6 hours for 1-2 days and it should go away on it's own. The ibuprofen will get rid of the pain and make it clear quicker. If you don't have Ibuprofen, any NSAID will do the job.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> Most likely subq leak, happens all the time. It's PIP flu. Have you used this oil before without an issue? Did you swab the area with alcohol?
> 
> Most of the time, it's just the oil leaking subq causing inflammation and flu like symptoms, not infection. It's a good idea to count to 20 seconds slowly before pulling out the needle, this lets the oil dissipate into the muscle lowers the risk of leaking, i found this cut back on most of the PIP issues i had.
> 
> Take 400 mg ibuprofen every 4-6 hours for 1-2 days and it should go away on it's own. The ibuprofen will get rid of the pain and make it clear quicker. If you don't have Ibuprofen, any NSAID will do the job.


 Thanks mate, 4th jab with this lab and no issues before. Yes I always swab the area first and Iam on ibuprofen at the moment.

Hopefully it will improve over night then that's if I can get to sleep.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Thanks mate, 4th jab with this lab and no issues before. Yes I always swab the area first and Iam on ibuprofen at the moment.
> 
> Hopefully it will improve over night then that's if I can get to sleep.


 How are you feeling now? The pain should have gone away once the ibuprofen kicked in. Takes around 30-60 mins for me to start feeling it but it works for 4-8 hours to relieve the pain and inflammation. Keep taking it for another day or two and the PIP should be gone.

Next time, count to 20 slowly before you pull out the plunger. Make sure your needle isn't too short. If there's a layer of fat, 1 inch is good.

1/2 inch for leaner delts/quads will work.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> How are you feeling now? The pain should have gone away once the ibuprofen kicked in. Takes around 30-60 mins for me to start feeling it but it works for 4-8 hours to relieve the pain and inflammation. Keep taking it for another day or two and the PIP should be gone.
> 
> Next time, count to 20 slowly before you pull out the plunger. Make sure your needle isn't too short. If there's a layer of fat, 1 inch is good.
> 
> 1/2 inch for leaner delts/quads will work.


 I still feel shocking tbh. Had some more ibuprofen about a hour ago the pain has eased up abit but does not totally go away and I have been massaging the delt on advice from another member.

The way I feel and the way my body aches definitely feels like I have a infection (had tonsillitis plenty of times). But the area is not red and the pain isnt spreading so I cant be to bad and hopefully over the next couple of days it will go.

Shoulders are fairly lean and I use a 1" blue but I definitely will start to wait 20secs before pulling out.

Thanks for taking time to reply.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Some people don't need AI for two reasons on testosterone. Either they don't make too much estrogen, or high estrogen levels don't bother them and cause no symptoms. We have a problem in the UG bodybuilding & TRT community with overusing AI. People are starting to realize it's better to have a little extra estrogen than very low levels for health, wellbeing and performance.
> 
> Deca aromatizes less to E2 BUT it has strong progestin effects, so the progestin is a feminizing hormone like estradiol. This is why DECA and tren can cause gyno, even with 0 estradiol in the blood.
> 
> Yeah, 500 mg Test + 1 mg AI is not a bad ratio, some people need less, some need more and some need none at all. Tren can cause gyno even with zero estrogen in the body because of it's ability to bind and activate the progesterone receptors in the mammary glands. Thankfully, Nolvadex and raloxifen work on 19-nor induced progesterone.
> 
> 500+500 test/deca would likely need more AI, but it depends on your genetics. 1-2 mg for starters.
> 
> I do not believe the decrease in IGF-1 from Nolvadex will affect gains too much, a lot of high level bodybuilders run Nolvadex in their cycles and have great results. Nolvadex can cause brain fog and other weird symptoms though, and it's been shown to be neurotoxic too. I would not run it long-term or year round. It is excellent for gyno though.
> 
> The reason it's neurotoxic is probably because it blocks estrogen receptors in the brain. The brain needs estrogen for optimal health. They say one of the reasons men and women experience cognitive decline in old age is due to lower estrogen levels (and also HGH/testosterone/thyroid)


 Thank you for taking you time its much appreciated!

If doing tren only, then you actually wont need an ai at all?

How high do you think estrogen can be without being too damaging? Whats your recommend estrogen levels on cycle?


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> I still feel shocking tbh. Had some more ibuprofen about a hour ago the pain has eased up abit but does not totally go away and I have been massaging the delt on advice from another member.
> 
> The way I feel and the way my body aches definitely feels like I have a infection (had tonsillitis plenty of times). But the area is not red and the pain isnt spreading so I cant be to bad and hopefully over the next couple of days it will go.
> 
> Shoulders are fairly lean and I use a 1" blue but I definitely will start to wait 20secs before pulling out.
> 
> Thanks for taking time to reply.


 Massaging can make it worse sometimes.

How much ibuprofen did you take?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for taking you time its much appreciated!
> 
> If doing tren only, then you actually wont need an ai at all?
> 
> How high do you think estrogen can be without being too damaging? Whats your recommend estrogen levels on cycle?


 You don't need AI on tren only, but you can still get gyno on tren only because it's progestin activity. I tested this out myself.

Nolvadex/raloxifen can reverse tren gyno though.

High E2 isn't too much to worry about on cycle unless you are symptomatic ( erection issues, gyno, mood swings, etc). Now if E2 is high year round, there may be a concern. Generally, you want to stay under 90 pg/mL. Most people will feel best around 20-60 pg/mL. Some guys feel better lower/higher than others.


----------



## Will2309

ElChapo said:


> Massaging can make it worse sometimes.
> 
> How much ibuprofen did you take?


 Ok I will stop massaging it, since yesterday morning I have had 400mg x 6 of ibuprofen.

I do feel better in myself but my shoulder still hurts like hell.

If it's like this on Monday I will call at the drs god knows what I will say. I don't want to mention aas.

Thanks


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You don't need AI on tren only, but you can still get gyno on tren only because it's progestin activity. I tested this out myself.
> 
> Nolvadex/raloxifen can reverse tren gyno though.
> 
> High E2 isn't too much to worry about on cycle unless you are symptomatic ( erection issues, gyno, mood swings, etc). Now if E2 is high year round, there may be a concern. Generally, you want to stay under 90 pg/mL. Most people will feel best around 20-60 pg/mL. Some guys feel better lower/higher than others.


 Great

As I mentioned before I did 12.5mg aromasin ED on test/deca, and I didnt manage to crash e2 - I think I've read that you cant really crash you estrogen with aromasin? Next time I will try to lower the AI dose and try a growth phase on higher estrogen. Wont higer estrogen lead to more fat gain or is this not a concern when blasting?


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Ok I will stop massaging it, since yesterday morning I have had 400mg x 6 of ibuprofen.
> 
> I do feel better in myself but my shoulder still hurts like hell.
> 
> If it's like this on Monday I will call at the drs god knows what I will say. I don't want to mention aas.
> 
> Thanks


 All you have to say is you took a B12 shot in the arm for fatigue. That points them in the right direction, is a believable story and does not admit AAS use.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great
> 
> As I mentioned before I did 12.5mg aromasin ED on test/deca, and I didnt manage to crash e2 - I think I've read that you cant really crash you estrogen with aromasin? Next time I will try to lower the AI dose and try a growth phase on higher estrogen. Wont higer estrogen lead to more fat gain or is this not a concern when blasting?


 There's mixed evidence regarding E2 and fat gain. Some research shows increase in fat others show improvement in fat loss.

End of the day, 90% of the results will come from diet.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> There's mixed evidence regarding E2 and fat gain. Some research shows increase in fat others show improvement in fat loss.
> 
> End of the day, 90% of the results will come from diet.


 thank you once again! Will be interesting to do test+sd, with low AI.

Can you recommend any good websites or youtubers who talk training/aas etc?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo as a result of a crapload of injuries which I have almost recovered from, I am still training at a lower level (weights at 2-4 kg range plus exercises on a mat).

However, a lot of the exercises with 3,5 kg weights have slowly gotten pretty easy. In light of avoiding reinjury while simultaneously slowly increasing my training, I have been carefully thinking about how to approach it.

Instead of increasing weights (for instance, from 3.5 kg to 4.5) I have considered slowly adding another set.

So in exercises where i do one set, add a second, and in exercises where I do two sets, add a third.

What do you think?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thank you once again! Will be interesting to do test+sd, with low AI.
> 
> Can you recommend any good websites or youtubers who talk training/aas etc?


 Dr. Rand McClain has very good info on AAS and health with personal experience himself as well as treating patient's in his sports performance and anti-aging.

I like Martin Berkhan of Leangains and his nutrition/intermittent fasting approach to health and low body fat maintenance and his no BS approach to training.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo as a result of a crapload of injuries which I have almost recovered from, I am still training at a lower level (weights at 2-4 kg range plus exercises on a mat).
> 
> However, a lot of the exercises with 3,5 kg weights have slowly gotten pretty easy. In light of avoiding reinjury while simultaneously slowly increasing my training, I have been carefully thinking about how to approach it.
> 
> Instead of increasing weights (for instance, from 3.5 kg to 4.5) I have considered slowly adding another set.
> 
> So in exercises where i do one set, add a second, and in exercises where I do two sets, add a third.
> 
> What do you think?


 What injuries and how did they happen?


----------



## Rockstar618111

What are your views on 16:8 diet - can you still gain muscle on it despite eating only in a 8 hour window?

I have been using it for last 8 months for fat loss and pretty much lost near 60lbs (around 10% body fat now) and strength only slight down. It's felt easy to be honest and I'd like to stick to it but increase calories a bit to try add some muscle on. I am also on TRT if that benefits at all on 16:8?


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar618111 said:


> What are your views on 16:8 diet - can you still gain muscle on it despite eating only in a 8 hour window?
> 
> I have been using it for last 8 months for fat loss and pretty much lost near 60lbs (around 10% body fat now) and strength only slight down. It's felt easy to be honest and I'd like to stick to it but increase calories a bit to try add some muscle on. I am also on TRT if that benefits at all on 16:8?


 Yeah, but its much harder to hit your calorie intake on a bulk with such huge meals.

I find intermittent fasting works well for cutting and maintenance since its easier to eat less. It's the opposite with bulking.

It can work well in your situation for a lean bulk i think. 250-300 calorie surplus or even 500.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hi Mate,

Does more steroids mean more fat loss? E.G 2g of gear instead of 1g?

Also do steroids increase metabolism, I've read conflicting information so it would be nice to have someone elses opinion


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> Does more steroids mean more fat loss? E.G 2g of gear instead of 1g?
> 
> Also do steroids increase metabolism, I've read conflicting information so it would be nice to have someone elses opinion


 It can give you a slight edge for fat loss, but caloric deficit will dictate +90% of your results.

It can sometimes increase metabolism by a bit and make it harder to gain fat, but it's a very slight effect most of the time.

You will hear guys tell you that you can eat anything you want on trenbolone and not gain fat, that's horseshit.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> There's mixed evidence regarding E2 and fat gain. Some research shows increase in fat others show improvement in fat loss.
> 
> End of the day, 90% of the results will come from diet.


 Okay, you think it could be benificial to just use nolva or ralox whole cycle and not using an ai at all?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> What injuries and how did they happen?


 Tenniselbow from overuse, especially in the forearm muscles (martial arts and weight lifting), and achilles tendon/joint overuse from running..

Old injuries and as mentioned, pretty close to gone at this point.

So im doing a lot of back, shoulder, neck and forearm exercises every 4th day with 2.5 to 3.5 kg weights (2-3 sets)

Also doing a single set of calf raises on stairs every 4th day for the ankle/joint foot


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay, you think it could be benificial to just use nolva or ralox whole cycle and not using an ai at all?


 I don't recommend using nolvadex or ralox on cycle if you don't need it.

Unless you have high E2 symptoms, i wouldn't worry about E2 too much unless its very high year round or gives you gyno.

If you get gyno very easily, then 20 mg nolva or 60 mg ralox through the cycle is not a bad idea.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Tenniselbow from overuse, especially in the forearm muscles (martial arts and weight lifting), and achilles tendon/joint overuse from running..
> 
> Old injuries and as mentioned, pretty close to gone at this point.
> 
> So im doing a lot of back, shoulder, neck and forearm exercises every 4th day with 2.5 to 3.5 kg weights (2-3 sets)
> 
> Also doing a single set of calf raises on stairs every 4th day for the ankle/joint foot


 What was the last time you took a full break from all training and exercise? and for how long?

Do these injuries hurt at rest or during use? What's the pain from 1-10 with rest and activity?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I've been stopping ralox 5-6 days ago , lump under left nipple is back and painful while I ve got perfect range E2 ( feeling good , good libido , good strength , pump , hunger etc).

That's pretty sad , I do seem to feel a little better since I stopped ralox too.

I'm thinking of letting the gyno grow for a month , then take again ralox for 6 weeks , then again.. until I can get rid of it with surgery.

good or bad idea?

I'm on 250mg test


----------



## Andro25

I'm using 300 mg testosterone long ester a week. I will be on holidays for two weeks.

I'm not sure what option may be better:

1- just do nothing, let the testosterone taper down and then go back when I will be back.

2- make a 600 mg testosterone injection the day before I start on the top of my weekly dosage.

I wonder if that second option may cause sides effect like acne or mood swing based on hormonal swing. That is my fear. I have not experience with high dose.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I've been stopping ralox 5-6 days ago , lump under left nipple is back and painful while I ve got perfect range E2 ( feeling good , good libido , good strength , pump , hunger etc).
> 
> That's pretty sad , I do seem to feel a little better since I stopped ralox too.
> 
> I'm thinking of letting the gyno grow for a month , then take again ralox for 6 weeks , then again.. until I can get rid of it with surgery.
> 
> good or bad idea?
> 
> I'm on 250mg test


 I would just invest in surgery if your gyno is that stubborn, you can't keep running SERMs year round indefinitely, as you've noticed, they can affect your mind and body.

Get the glands cut out and drop the ralox/nolva.

How soon are you getting surgery, you might as well let it grow so they can see it better and give your body a break from the SERMs. Chronic SERM useage has been linked to cognitive deficits in women who take it for breast cancer suppression, specifically Nolvadex.


----------



## ElChapo

Andro25 said:


> I'm using 300 mg testosterone long ester a week. I will be on holidays for two weeks.
> 
> I'm not sure what option may be better:
> 
> 1- just do nothing, let the testosterone taper down and then go back when I will be back.
> 
> 2- make a 600 mg testosterone injection the day before I start on the top of my weekly dosage.
> 
> I wonder if that second option may cause sides effect like acne or mood swing based on hormonal swing. That is my fear. I have not experience with high dose.


 Pop your numbers into steroidcalc.com

It will give you an idea of what your levels will look like with different protocols. I would double the dose myself right before leaving, if you are prone to gyno or E2 sides, i would pop a 1 mg tab of adex or 25 mg arimidex, by the time the AI is out of your system, test levels should be closer to your normal.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo does high testosterone decreased cardiovascular endurance? I understand that the likes of trenbolone, superdrol, DHB etc can cause a lot of blood to fill out the muscle (aka pump) causing faster fatigue and less blood circulating through lungs therefore decreased endurance.

Just wonder whether/and how 500-1000mg of testosterone per week would effect cardio(boxing)?

Also, would the increase in RBC caused by using anabolics not negate any negative effects on endurance?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I don't recommend using nolvadex or ralox on cycle if you don't need it.
> 
> Unless you have high E2 symptoms, i wouldn't worry about E2 too much unless its very high year round or gives you gyno.
> 
> If you get gyno very easily, then 20 mg nolva or 60 mg ralox through the cycle is not a bad idea.


 Thank you, Im very gyno sensitive which is why I thought using ralox on cycle instead of crashing my e2. So could I do 500mg test 20SD 60mg ralox ED and then just let E2 get a little high and not use an AI at all, if these means better gains?

Also what the reason for muscle cramps, not the spasm thing but actually cramp as when you flex your biceps you forarm muscle kind gets out of place if you understand me? I drink plenty of water and use plenty of salt, so must be something else?


----------



## Malin

Mid way through my low test high tren recomp/lean bulk cycle, would I benefit from taking T3, if so what dose?

Thyroid results tested at medichecks -

TSH - 0.982mIU/L, range - 0.27 - 4.2

Free T3 - 3.71 pmol/L, range - 3.1 - 6.8

Free Thyroxine - 10.4 pmol/L, range 12 - 22


----------



## Will2309

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo does high testosterone decreased cardiovascular endurance? I understand that the likes of trenbolone, superdrol, DHB etc can cause a lot of blood to fill out the muscle (aka pump) causing faster fatigue and less blood circulating through lungs therefore decreased endurance.
> 
> Just wonder whether/and how 500-1000mg of testosterone per week would effect cardio(boxing)?
> 
> Also, would the increase in RBC caused by using anabolics not negate any negative effects on endurance?


 Pretty sure I have read on here that anything above 300mg will have a impact on cardio.

I was 300mg test cardio was good but when I added 500mg Masteron the same run 10k became alot harder.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> What was the last time you took a full break from all training and exercise? and for how long?
> 
> Do these injuries hurt at rest or during use? What's the pain from 1-10 with rest and activity?


 I have done rehab training for years, with breaks of up to a week at most.

The thing is though, I have been symptom and pain free for probably a year.

If i sit at a keyboard nonstop for three days then yea, the tightness and tingling feelings in my forearm muscle return for days, and im sure it would also return If i started lifting weights with 10-15 kg out of the blue.

Similarly, the tightness and tingling in my ankle/joint foot/connected muscles have also dissapated, but again, im sure if i start running long walks out of the blue it would come back..

So i guess you could say its 95% healed ish? And like I mentioned, the exercises with 2.5 to 3.5 kg weights along with calf raises on stairs (just one set) are starting to feel easy.. I mean, please correct me if i am wrong, but from here on I figure the correct thing to do is to slowly and systematically increase the training, somehow?

Your help is really appreciated by the way!


----------



## swole troll

in light of the recent research on training volume what do you believe to be the 'general' range for sets per body part and do you think this has a great degree of variance when cutting vs bulking, training to failure vs a reps in reserve system ect

i know this will be largely individual based on genetics and strength and recovery capabilities but what kind of range would you give

as an example:

back 9 - 16 sets per week being the average range for most to preserve maximal muscle during a deficit and build maximal muscle during a surplus


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Get some raloxifene or nolvadex, run it for 8-12 weeks. The gyno has a 90% chance of going away completely. This has been proven in studies and my own personal experience as well a ton of other people online. Ralox at 60 mg daily and nolvadex at 20 mg daily.
> 
> There really isn't any risk, so it's not a bad idea.


 I'm in the same boat with gyno. I'm ok to run 2ng nolva for 8-12 weeks whilst on test and superdrol with adex

so 600mg test

40mg superdrol

0.5mg adex mon wed fri

then 20mg nolva daily or just run the nolva with cruise dose test until gyno goes?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo does high testosterone decreased cardiovascular endurance? I understand that the likes of trenbolone, superdrol, DHB etc can cause a lot of blood to fill out the muscle (aka pump) causing faster fatigue and less blood circulating through lungs therefore decreased endurance.
> 
> Just wonder whether/and how 500-1000mg of testosterone per week would effect cardio(boxing)?
> 
> Also, would the increase in RBC caused by using anabolics not negate any negative effects on endurance?


 It can, if you are doing boxing or combat sport, 200-300 mg per week is what i've seen work in people i know. You can get away with more, but endurance can take hit a for a lot of people due to pumps and increased oxygen consumption from the muscle.

There's a sweet spot for RBC/HCT, personally i find high 40s/ low 50s (hematocrit) to be optimal for endurance. Once i got past mid 50s, endurance takes a hit and i get symptoms like shortness of breath, headaches and flushed face. BP can also go up.

I think elite endurance athletes like Lance Armstrong are better able to utilize extremely high levels of RBC/HCT due to incredible & superhuman cardiovascular capacity and efficiency. Their hearts have no problem pumping the syrup like, oxygen rich blood. A normal athlete will usually feel off with very high HCT levels.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, Im very gyno sensitive which is why I thought using ralox on cycle instead of crashing my e2. So could I do 500mg test 20SD 60mg ralox ED and then just let E2 get a little high and not use an AI at all, if these means better gains?
> 
> Also what the reason for muscle cramps, not the spasm thing but actually cramp as when you flex your biceps you forarm muscle kind gets out of place if you understand me? I drink plenty of water and use plenty of salt, so must be something else?


 You can run the ralox , yes.

Magnesium is also important. Sometimes androgens can increase cramping as they have an effect on calcium metabolism and action.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Mid way through my low test high tren recomp/lean bulk cycle, would I benefit from taking T3, if so what dose?
> 
> Thyroid results tested at medichecks -
> 
> TSH - 0.982mIU/L, range - 0.27 - 4.2
> 
> Free T3 - 3.71 pmol/L, range - 3.1 - 6.8
> 
> Free Thyroxine - 10.4 pmol/L, range 12 - 22


 T3 is a fairly poor compound on it's own for fat loss. The doses need to illicit noticeable results +50 mcg can lead to muscle flatness, strength/endurance decrease, and hyperthyroid symptoms like headaches, insomnia, etc.

You are better off running clen/EC/yohimbine or DNP. T3 can potentiate other compounds by making the beta receptors more response to stimulants. It can also help with low energy levels from a long/hard caloric deficit at 25-50 mcg.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> Pretty sure I have read on here that anything above 300mg will have a impact on cardio.
> 
> I was 300mg test cardio was good but when I added 500mg Masteron the same run 10k became alot harder.


 Yeah, that's my experience as well. 300 mg can increase performance/recovery but over that, endurance will take a hit.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I have done rehab training for years, with breaks of up to a week at most.
> 
> The thing is though, I have been symptom and pain free for probably a year.
> 
> If i sit at a keyboard nonstop for three days then yea, the tightness and tingling feelings in my forearm muscle return for days, and im sure it would also return If i started lifting weights with 10-15 kg out of the blue.
> 
> Similarly, the tightness and tingling in my ankle/joint foot/connected muscles have also dissapated, but again, im sure if i start running long walks out of the blue it would come back..
> 
> So i guess you could say its 95% healed ish? And like I mentioned, the exercises with 2.5 to 3.5 kg weights along with calf raises on stairs (just one set) are starting to feel easy.. I mean, please correct me if i am wrong, but from here on I figure the correct thing to do is to slowly and systematically increase the training, somehow?
> 
> Your help is really appreciated by the way!


 I would build your strength back up the way you would like a beginner. Find your 8-12 rep max for all your exercises and add weight every week until you reached your desired strength level.

I would stick to 8-12 reps as this is easier on your joints than the lower rep ranges. You should have no issues, but if you get any flare ups, just take a week off from training that muscle/joint and then resume.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> in light of the recent research on training volume what do you believe to be the 'general' range for sets per body part and do you think this has a great degree of variance when cutting vs bulking, training to failure vs a reps in reserve system ect
> 
> i know this will be largely individual based on genetics and strength and recovery capabilities but what kind of range would you give
> 
> as an example:
> 
> back 9 - 16 sets per week being the average range for most to preserve maximal muscle during a deficit and build maximal muscle during a surplus


 In regards to muscle retention on a deficit, it takes very little volume to preserve muscle mass. Even 2 hard sets per week per muscle group can work if intensity is high enough. It sounds ridiculous but if you try it, you will see it works. Mike Mentzer was a proponent of high intensity/low volume training and his physique was incredible.

I think the sweet spot for bulking will be something like hitting the muscle group twice a week, with anywhere from 3-5 sets for low volume/high intensity training (heavy squats) and +6 for high volume/low intensity training (bicep curls). The best gauge is progression. If you are plateauing, you need to look at the volume of your training, diet, and recovery.

Some people focus too much on volume and have trouble progress in their reps and weight. Lots of volume will give you a pump, but you build real muscle, you need progressive overload.

Both training to failure and reserve work fine, my recommendation is to always go by progression. If you are progressing in reps/weight then keep doing what you are doing. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. If you are stalling, then you go back to the drawing board and look at diet (calories/carbs/protein), recovery (volume and rest days), and training.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I would build your strength back up the way you would like a beginner. Find your 8-12 rep max for all your exercises and add weight every week until you reached your desired strength level.
> 
> I would stick to 8-12 reps as this is easier on your joints than the lower rep ranges. You should have no issues, but if you get any flare ups, just take a week off from training that muscle/joint and then resume.


 Makes a lot of sense, thanks man!


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> I'm in the same boat with gyno. I'm ok to run 2ng nolva for 8-12 weeks whilst on test and superdrol with adex
> 
> so 600mg test
> 
> 40mg superdrol
> 
> 0.5mg adex mon wed fri
> 
> then 20mg nolva daily or just run the nolva with cruise dose test until gyno goes?


 Nolva will work as long as you aren't running a 19-nor.

You can run it with high dose test or on cruise, it's up to you.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> Nolva will work as long as you aren't running a 19-nor.
> 
> You can run it with high dose test or on cruise, it's up to you.


 If running it at 20mg on 600mg test will that mean no need for adex or continue adex?


----------



## Malin

ElChapo said:


> T3 is a fairly poor compound on it's own for fat loss. The doses need to illicit noticeable results +50 mcg can lead to muscle flatness, strength/endurance decrease, and hyperthyroid symptoms like headaches, insomnia, etc.
> 
> You are better off running clen/EC/yohimbine or DNP. T3 can potentiate other compounds by making the beta receptors more response to stimulants. It can also help with low energy levels from a long/hard caloric deficit at 25-50 mcg.


 Thank you, I'm not trying to lose weight per se, it's more of a recomp / lean bulk cycle as stated in my previous post and tren does seem to lower the T3 levels over time seemingly, hence the question whether T3 supplementation would help with that, I didn't test my bloods for thyroid pre cycle unfortunately so there's not much to compare the current levels with.


----------



## woolymaggot

ElChapo said:


> Its not your pituitary because you are producing TSH. Usually its free T3 that gets lower when you low carb.
> 
> You appear to have the same type of hypothyroidism as my father. Normal TSH but very low T4.
> 
> Free T4 is linked to wellbeing, more so than Free T3 contrary to popular belief in online. Free T4 is not just an "inactive" hormone, it serves its own functions that T3 can't do. Certain cells can't use serum T3 as well as T4.
> 
> You can try the higher carbs and re-test, but its 50/50 if they will help. You can try Levothyroxine if Free T4 is still low. 100-150 mcg is a good starting dose, you want to bring it up the top of the range.
> 
> Take it in the morning, fasted and wait 30 mins to 1 hour before tea, coffee, food or supplements. Water is fine.


 I decided to start T4 at 100mcg per day. I probably wasn't as patient as I should have been but was sick of feeling like sh#t. I think back at the years of symptoms of feeling cold, battle to lose fat when used to be easy, periodical fatigue and joint pain and can't help thinking that this could all be related. 2 years ago my T4 was literally on the bottom of the normal range so I could speculate I haven't been optimal for years.

I note T4 has a long half life so I anticipate it'll be 4 weeks before my levels rise sufficiently to mitigate the fatigue.

My GP has had my adverse results for over a week and I have spoken with the surgery. Not an eye lid batted, nothing. I guess that means I'll be self treating for a while. I have bloods paid for so I'll stick with 100mcg per day and test in 6 to 8 weeks. I'll aim for an optimal range but also balance with reduction in symptoms and well being.

I'm up to 2 to 3 x 30min cardio sessions and 1 weight workout per week so there is progress even if there is a little caffeine boost to get me going. Not sure if there are any other supplementation that would assist energy or just a case of waiting it out. 8hrs sleep every night, maintenance calories with some starchy carbs.

@El Chapo thanks again as your advice has made a difference and sent me on the right path. Whilst I'll be happy to just be rid of this bout of fatigue, if this does prove to be some kind of silver bullet you will be elevated to God like guru status as you've succeeded where all my docs and consultants have failed. Fingers crossed but I'll be happy either way.


----------



## Playtowin

Hi EL Chapo.

I was massively under developed when doing my first cycle. Stupid but it was in the end, what I needed to get the mindset I now have.

I put on over 30lbs and kept 95% of it. Despite what everyone said would happen. Totally transformed my body and my life.

I'm back now 2 years later doing another serious bulk after a few failed attempts due to injury and bunk gear.

My question is, after such a dramatic weight gain, can it be expected for weight to go on slower this time round?

I started my cycle and did a huge front load with Test / EQ / Deca / NPP and Tren. + Dbol. All from a reliable source. I don't seem to be gaining much in the first few weeks, whereas last time I added 12lbs in the first two weeks.

I'm hoping I just need more food and time. Any ideas or advice? Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> If running it at 20mg on 600mg test will that mean no need for adex or continue adex?


 I would still use ADEX, the nolva will probably work better with normal or lower E2 levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> Thank you, I'm not trying to lose weight per se, it's more of a recomp / lean bulk cycle as stated in my previous post and tren does seem to lower the T3 levels over time seemingly, hence the question whether T3 supplementation would help with that, I didn't test my bloods for thyroid pre cycle unfortunately so there's not much to compare the current levels with.


 It can't hurt but i wouldn't bother too much with that. It can definitely help with lethargy, that's the biggest effect you will see. I had no problem getting to single digit bodyfat with low Free T3 levels either, but energy can be worse. without T3


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> I decided to start T4 at 100mcg per day. I probably wasn't as patient as I should have been but was sick of feeling like sh#t. I think back at the years of symptoms of feeling cold, battle to lose fat when used to be easy, periodical fatigue and joint pain and can't help thinking that this could all be related. 2 years ago my T4 was literally on the bottom of the normal range so I could speculate I haven't been optimal for years.
> 
> I note T4 has a long half life so I anticipate it'll be 4 weeks before my levels rise sufficiently to mitigate the fatigue.
> 
> My GP has had my adverse results for over a week and I have spoken with the surgery. Not an eye lid batted, nothing. I guess that means I'll be self treating for a while. I have bloods paid for so I'll stick with 100mcg per day and test in 6 to 8 weeks. I'll aim for an optimal range but also balance with reduction in symptoms and well being.
> 
> I'm up to 2 to 3 x 30min cardio sessions and 1 weight workout per week so there is progress even if there is a little caffeine boost to get me going. Not sure if there are any other supplementation that would assist energy or just a case of waiting it out. 8hrs sleep every night, maintenance calories with some starchy carbs.
> 
> @El Chapo thanks again as your advice has made a difference and sent me on the right path. Whilst I'll be happy to just be rid of this bout of fatigue, if this does prove to be some kind of silver bullet you will be elevated to God like guru status as you've succeeded where all my docs and consultants have failed. Fingers crossed but I'll be happy either way.


 Not only will it take 4-6 weeks to reach peak levels, it can take 3-6 months to feel the effect of elevated T4 levels due to gene expression. T3 kicks in much faster.

Most medical practicioner's could not care less "how you feel" as long as you aren't dying, that's all their trained to stop. These are the guys that see you with testosterone levels of a 95 year old man and send you on your way with some anti-depressant pills. I'm at all against medicine but you should always treat hormonal and nutritional deficiencies first, it's usually more cost effective, with less side effects and better results and popping an SSRI.

Fixing thyroid or testosterone deficiency can alleviate depression, slow metabolism, low libido/erectile dysfunction, and fatigue without the side effects of SSRIs, cialis, or adderall.

Your fatigue very likely stemming from your suboptimal thyroid levels. Fatigue is the #1 most common symptom. You want that Free T4 at least over 1.4 ng/dL.

Let me know how it goes for you, looking forward to it.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Hi EL Chapo.
> 
> I was massively under developed when doing my first cycle. Stupid but it was in the end, what I needed to get the mindset I now have.
> 
> I put on over 30lbs and kept 95% of it. Despite what everyone said would happen. Totally transformed my body and my life.
> 
> I'm back now 2 years later doing another serious bulk after a few failed attempts due to injury and bunk gear.
> 
> My question is, after such a dramatic weight gain, can it be expected for weight to go on slower this time round?
> 
> I started my cycle and did a huge front load with Test / EQ / Deca / NPP and Tren. + Dbol. All from a reliable source. I don't seem to be gaining much in the first few weeks, whereas last time I added 12lbs in the first two weeks.
> 
> I'm hoping I just need more food and time. Any ideas or advice? Thanks


 Generally, the first 15-25 lbs of "beginner gains" comes on fast, even as a natural trainee. Once you are in the intermediate-advanced level of muscular development, gains will be slower for sure.

You will continue to drive muscle growth by constantly pushing to increase your reps and/or weight on all your exercise from bicep curls to squats to bench press. If you are benching 225 for 10, go for 230 to 10, then 235 for 10 or even 235 for 12. You do that for each muscle group in a caloric surplus and you will muscles will grow.

That is odd as most of the time starting a cycle will pack on some extra weight. Were you cruising on anything prior to starting the cycle?


----------



## Pancake'

Thoughts on skullcrushers as an accessory lift to improve bench press? + dumbbell vs barbell variation being best option?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Generally, the first 15-25 lbs of "beginner gains" comes on fast, even as a natural trainee. Once you are in the intermediate-advanced level of muscular development, gains will be slower for sure.
> 
> *You will continue to drive muscle growth by constantly pushing to increase your reps and/or weight on all your exercise from bicep curls to squats to bench press. If you are benching 225 for 10, go for 230 to 10, then 235 for 10 or even 235 for 12. You do that for each muscle group in a caloric surplus and you will muscles will grow.*
> 
> That is odd as most of the time starting a cycle will pack on some extra weight. Were you cruising on anything prior to starting the cycle?


 @El Chapo following on from this, if you suffer and injury, or have had issues in the past, what else can pish muscle growth if not extra weight?

I could naturally bench press 150kg for 6-8 reps but these days recovering from a rotator cuff injury I struggle to comfortably push 100kg. Mainly due to the weaker side. I use hammer press machines and can increase on them, four plates per side at the moment for working set of 6 then 4

Would dropsets or forced reps be of use in my case to safely keep the muscles working without injury? (all other lifts are fine, oddly shoulder press too, so just chest ill be looking for a work around)

Ps on week three of 750mg test 100mg winny.... You are spot on when you say its not fair off tren as dad as tightening up and strength goes. Plus I sleep like a baby on this.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Thoughts on skullcrushers as an accessory lift to improve bench press? + dumbbell vs barbell variation being best option?


 I find they cause too much strain on elbow connective tissues, as someone with elbow tendonitis, i avoid them.

I find weighted dips x 10 better for improving bench press lockout and tricep strength. Build up to +100 lbs dips for reps and you won't have a problem with bench lockout/tricep strength & development. I can load up a ton of weight without flaring up my elbows this way, just stick to the 8-15 rep range so the joints can take it.

Of course, 100% full ROM with perfect technique is key.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo following on from this, if you suffer and injury, or have had issues in the past, what else can pish muscle growth if not extra weight?
> 
> I could naturally bench press 150kg for 6-8 reps but these days recovering from a rotator cuff injury I struggle to comfortably push 100kg. Mainly due to the weaker side. I use hammer press machines and can increase on them, four plates per side at the moment for working set of 6 then 4
> 
> Would dropsets or forced reps be of use in my case to safely keep the muscles working without injury? (all other lifts are fine, oddly shoulder press too, so just chest ill be looking for a work around)
> 
> Ps on week three of 750mg test 100mg winny.... You are spot on when you say its not fair off tren as dad as tightening up and strength goes. Plus I sleep like a baby on this.


 If the muscle is already built, it has the "memory" that can be maintained with volume instead of intensity/heavier weight.

High reps can also increase the size of the "sarcoplasm" this is just a fancy word for the pump/glycogen component of muscles.

What you suggest is not a bad idea, you can compensate for reduced intensity/weight with increased volume to compensate. It should work for preserving muscle size, especially on AAS.

Winstrol is the s**t, i love this stuff. Cheap as dirt, dries you out like crazy, increases vascularity, strength, and lean muscle tissue.

For those who get the joint pains, i recommend superdrol as an alternative, and a just as effective compound. Only difference is instead of joint tightness, Sdrol can cause lethargy and appetite reduction. The appetite reduction is actually very useful during cutting and can be stacked with EC stack which will alleviate the fatigue and synergize with the appetite reduction of sdrol.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think of this profile? this is a very popular clone here in UK
> 
> Is this M1T or SD?
> 
> 2a,17a-dimethyl-4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-0l &#8230;&#8230;.10mg brown rice, flour, magnesium state, gelatine and water.


 Quick search pops it up as Sdrol


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo which supplements would you advice for a woman who has bad immunity system since birth , and get sick really easily.

I was thinking of 2g vitamin C , vitamin D , multi vitamin but they may be much better things

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo which supplements would you advice for a woman who has bad immunity system since birth , and get sick really easily.
> 
> I was thinking of 2g vitamin C , vitamin D , multi vitamin but they may be much better things
> 
> thanks


 1 g vitamin C, keep vitamin D in the 50-70 ng/mL range (5K with fatty food will do the job for most who dont get sun), 30 mg zinc, garlic supp or in food.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You can run the ralox , yes.
> 
> Magnesium is also important. Sometimes androgens can increase cramping as they have an effect on calcium metabolism and action.


 Thanks mate

I do use ZMA, I get the cramping same day when hitting the muscle grp, usually it goes away the day after, but they are really painful when they appear.

Been offcycle for some time now and trying to deal with gyno from deca+test+anadrol and been on nolve 40mg for 4 weeks now, but seems like the lump is still growing and still a little sore nipples, is nolva likely bunk or can it be something else?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thanks mate
> 
> I do use ZMA, I get the cramping same day when hitting the muscle grp, usually it goes away the day after, but they are really painful when they appear.
> 
> Been offcycle for some time now and trying to deal with gyno from deca+test+anadrol and been on nolve 40mg for 4 weeks now, but seems like the lump is still growing and still a little sore nipples, is nolva likely bunk or can it be something else?


 Is your nolvadex pharma or ugl brand?

Nolva and ralox need 6-12 weeks to work.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Is your nolvadex pharma or ugl brand?
> 
> Nolva and ralox need 6-12 weeks to work.


 Its UGL but a very well known.

Okay maybe it just needs some more time to work?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo what do you think of BPC-157 for muscle repair ?


----------



## Matt83

@El Chapo if I wanted to maintain muscle mass while cutting what's a good dose of test to use? I'll only be using test as I prefer to stay away from the harsher injectables and orals as iv gotten older.

Ill be using test prop at 150mg/ml and I'm 23.5 stone at around 18-20% body fat.

Also when cutting with test p is it better to break the weekly dose up with daily shots (as iv always done) or will twice a week suffice? Was looking at it on anabolic calculator and the twice a week gave higher peaks compared to the stable daily shots. Unsure which is better but iv found daily shots help me hold less water.


----------



## swole troll

What's your thoughts on intentially allowing e2 to run high / not using aromatase inhibitors on cycle to maximise growth and instead using AE ratio to prevent unwanted sides?

Health concerns aside would you grow better without any e2 suppression


----------



## Matt83

swole troll said:


> What's your thoughts on intentially allowing e2 to run high / not using aromatase inhibitors on cycle to maximise growth and instead using AE ratio to prevent unwanted sides?
> 
> Health concerns aside would you grow better without any e2 suppression


 Iv played a bit with this in the past using test only. I can't speak from a gyno perspective as iv never had it, but with longer esters I can run around 700mg before the water starts to become a problem. With prop I can go as high as 1000mg but that needs to be with daily shots. The more stable I can keep the blood levels the less I seem to hold water. Higher E2 always seems to elicit better growth, hence why the aromatizing compounds like test and dbol always pack on size.

Funnily enough @swole troll I was reading through one of your old posts yesterday. Currently running 200mg of test p and 30mg Mk677 per day. All was going fine till my bad disc started playing up and my doc put me on 1000mg naproxen .... holy fu**ing water retention! I put on almost a stone in 6 days and my feet, calf's, hands and face turned into balloons!

Iv now dropped the naproxen, lowered test and mk doses and added a few grams of dandelion extract and the edema is starting to dissipate, but for a few days I really didn't feel too hot. Made my breathing awful and chest very tight.


----------



## swole troll

Matt83 said:


> Iv played a bit with this in the past using test only. I can't speak from a gyno perspective as iv never had it, but with longer esters I can run around 700mg before the water starts to become a problem. With prop I can go as high as 1000mg but that needs to be with daily shots. The more stable I can keep the blood levels the less I seem to hold water.
> 
> Funnily enough @swole troll I was reading through one of your old posts yesterday. Currently running 200mg of test p and 30mg Mk677 per day. All was going fine till my bad disc started playing up and my doc put me on 1000mg naproxen .... holy fu**ing water retention! I put on almost a stone in 6 days and my feet, calf's, hands and face turned into balloons!
> 
> Iv now dropped the naproxen, lowered test and mk doses and added a few grams of dandelion extract and the edema is starting to dissipate, but for a few days I really didn't feel too hot. Made my breathing awful and chest very tight.


 The question was in regard to oestrogen, it's relationship with igf1, maximizing hypertrophy and anecdotal reports from several powerlifters I've spoken to and Stan Efferding put out a video titled "medications that are killing your performance" and aromatase inhibitors made that list and he said he noticed a notable decrease in strength running the same dose of test with or without AIs on 2 different cycles

Gyno isn't a concern for me as my glands are removed

This is purely from a maximizing hypertrophy perspective and keeping sides at bay with masteron or proviron to balance androgen to oestrogen ratio.

Mk677 is a disgustingly side effect ridden compound

It has thee worst sides vs benefits ratio of any PED

Dandelion root won't touch it's effect on water retention

I had to resort to furosemide to drop the insane amount of pitting edema I was getting from mk677 on one cycle


----------



## Matt83

@swole troll ok bud bit more in-depth than my knowledge base lol. Will check out that Efferding video though as I like what he has to say regarding nutrition/trainging.

Iv run mk a few times and never had to much of a problem with sides (touch wood). Just the initial hunger for a week or so followed by muscle fullness, huge pump and leaning out a touch.

This time was the same and going well right up until I started the naproxen!

Yea your pics looked a hell of a lot worse than I am now so dandelion and more water seems to be enough for me. Will definitely be avoiding higher doses of NSA's while on any secretagogues in the future.


----------



## ghost.recon

Wow this AMA is still going. Good job @El Chapo


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Its UGL but a very well known.
> 
> Okay maybe it just needs some more time to work?


 I would only use pharma grade ancillaries (AI/SERMS/ETC). They are just too easy to find and very economical in terms of price. There are many reputable indian online pharmacies out there selling legit Rx grade products.

I'm a fan of high quality UGL AAS and generic chinese HGH, but when it comes to ancillaries like AI/SERM/etc, i always recommend pharma grade, indian online pharma is the easiest to acquire most of the time.

It always needs time to work 6-12 weeks, most people will see 100% reversal in that time frame. People think it doesn't work because they don't give it time but i've done it many many times myself and you will see people posting on this site who had a lot of success with the protocol. It just works.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo what do you think of BPC-157 for muscle repair ?


 Idk, complete rest has always worked for me personally. Mild strains heal themselves in 2 weeks of complete rest, moderate strains in about 3 weeks. I would just add high quality generic HGH at 4-6 IU if i wanted to enhance healing. It's easy enough to find and proven to work.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt83 said:


> @El Chapo if I wanted to maintain muscle mass while cutting what's a good dose of test to use? I'll only be using test as I prefer to stay away from the harsher injectables and orals as iv gotten older.
> 
> Ill be using test prop at 150mg/ml and I'm 23.5 stone at around 18-20% body fat.
> 
> Also when cutting with test p is it better to break the weekly dose up with daily shots (as iv always done) or will twice a week suffice? Was looking at it on anabolic calculator and the twice a week gave higher peaks compared to the stable daily shots. Unsure which is better but iv found daily shots help me hold less water.


 300-600 mg per week depending on how much muscle and strength you are trying to maintain.

Twice a week will suffice and has worked for me.

The best balance of convenience and stable levels would be monday, wednesday, friday dosing with late night friday and early morning monday injection.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I would only use pharma grade ancillaries (AI/SERMS/ETC). They are just too easy to find and very economical in terms of price. There are many reputable indian online pharmacies out there selling legit Rx grade products.
> 
> I'm a fan of high quality UGL AAS and generic chinese HGH, but when it comes to ancillaries like AI/SERM/etc, i always recommend pharma grade, indian online pharma is the easiest to acquire most of the time.
> 
> It always needs time to work 6-12 weeks, most people will see 100% reversal in that time frame. People think it doesn't work because they don't give it time but i've done it many many times myself and you will see people posting on this site who had a lot of success with the protocol. It just works.


 Reason im using ugl is because it the only thing I can get, as I dont want to buy from other countries as it my get caught.

Can nips still be sore even if nolva is working?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> What's your thoughts on intentially allowing e2 to run high / not using aromatase inhibitors on cycle to maximise growth and instead using AE ratio to prevent unwanted sides?
> 
> Health concerns aside would you grow better without any e2 suppression


 There is mixed data out there+ anecdotes from other bodybuilders/powerlifters.

For fat loss:

Some studies show better fat loss with higher E2, others show E2 slows down fat loss (via Alpha 2 adrenergic receptor mechanisms). They gave some guys test solo and test+ai, the test solo had better fat loss than the AI group. If i recall the study correctly. Anecdotally, people have noticed better fat loss with lower E2 but this could be a drying effect being mistaken for fat loss.

For muscle growth:

It seems that E2 is important for optimal insulin sensitivity in the muscles, people born with aromatase deficiency has insulin resistance and tend to be weaker and more frail. I've also noticed people who take HGH and use a lot of AI have poor IGF-1 level responses to HGH than those who don't on average. Estrogen also makes your body more responsive to adrenaline, which may explain the "roid rage"(lack of a better term) or mood swings some people get with high E2, this can be useful for lifting with intensity and can make you stronger indirectly.

For libido:

Studies and my own anecdotal experience show that low E2/normal E2 is linked with poorer libido more often than high E2. E2 seems to be important for libido and sexual function in the brain. AI will kill libido fast in a lot of people. This is genetic though, so experiment and find what works best for you.

My personal approach is to avoid AI use if you have no side effects and your vitals, libido/erections are good. High E2 has been observed in people with more heart attacks/clots etc but sometimes the connection was not the cause of the problem. E2 can protect against calcification/atherosclerosis development, but it can also increase prostate size.

I think a high testosterone/DHT level does have a protective/balancing effect on High E2 which is the "test/E2 ratio theory" to some extent. Any E2 level over 100 pg/mL i would monitor or consider some AI, but 70 pg/mL (257 pmol/L) and under w/ no symptoms and/or feeling good, i would not worry about if vitals are good.

Some people feel good with E2 a little on the higher end and studies have shown that many of the benefits of testosterone only happen because of aromatization to E2, studies where they gave men testosterone+AI and they observed that some positive effects never took place in these men.

You can never beat your own anecdotal experience which trumps science because science is not perfect and your genetics will affect how you respond to different stimuli, medication, etc. So experiment and find out what works best for you, just use the science and knowledge from other members as a guideline to find it.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> The question was in regard to oestrogen, it's relationship with igf1, maximizing hypertrophy and anecdotal reports from several powerlifters I've spoken to and Stan Efferding put out a video titled "medications that are killing your performance" and aromatase inhibitors made that list and he said he noticed a notable decrease in strength running the same dose of test with or without AIs on 2 different cycles
> 
> Gyno isn't a concern for me as my glands are removed
> 
> This is purely from a maximizing hypertrophy perspective and keeping sides at bay with masteron or proviron to balance androgen to oestrogen ratio.
> 
> Mk677 is a disgustingly side effect ridden compound
> 
> It has thee worst sides vs benefits ratio of any PED
> 
> Dandelion root won't touch it's effect on water retention
> 
> I had to resort to furosemide to drop the insane amount of pitting edema I was getting from mk677 on one cycle


 I just read this post after replying to the first one about E2, and you touched on a lot of what i did regarding IGF, powerlifters, etc.

I'll tell you this, i never felt weaker in my life than when i tried running pharma grade letro at 2.5 mg daily to "kill gyno" before i knew better. I literally lost 50% of my strength, it was incredible and a good learning experience.

p.s.

The gyno stayed right where it was, letro did absolutely nothing.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> Wow this AMA is still going. Good job @El Chapo


 Hey brother,

Jump in, we miss ya over here :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Reason im using ugl is because it the only thing I can get, as I dont want to buy from other countries as it my get caught.
> 
> Can nips still be sore even if nolva is working?


 Most countries let the pharma ancillaries through, i know in the USA they don't give a s**t, but the Aussies have a hard time getting their stuff into the country.

Most of the time, the first effect from nolva/ralox is that the pain/tenderness and swelling goes down, and that should happen within a week most of the time.


----------



## 18557

i browse a few ugl websites and 2 of them sell pharama grade ancillaries. Have a better look, Uk based tooo


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Most countries let the pharma ancillaries through, i know in the USA they don't give a s**t, but the Aussies have a hard time getting their stuff into the country.
> 
> Most of the time, the first effect from nolva/ralox is that the pain/tenderness and swelling goes down, and that should happen within a week most of the time.


 Well that answered the question whether the nolva is bunk.

Will ralox work better than nolva for gyno? Why is it that mostly nolva is being used, as it seems ralox has less sides?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Most countries let the pharma ancillaries through, i know in the USA they don't give a s**t, but the Aussies have a hard time getting their stuff into the country.
> 
> Most of the time, the first effect from nolva/ralox is that the pain/tenderness and swelling goes down, and that should happen within a week most of the time.


 @El Chapo in relation to your comments above regarding ai use,

Can using an ai when you don't need to cause pain in your joints or cramps?

I'm currently on a blast, 750mg test e a week and usually take 12.5mg pharma aromasin mwf or Tues Thurs. I stopped for three weeks recently after running out, and noticed a few nagging injuries felt much much better.... Related or coincidence? Libido and mood are much better also, sleep too. I do feel that I look watery though, then again it is a bulk and I'm eating more, drinking lots of fluids, training harder etc. I was just surprised that specifically a shoudler injury related to the superspinatus tendon (and/or muscle) was pain free when working out.

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Well that answered the question whether the nolva is bunk.
> 
> Will ralox work better than nolva for gyno? Why is it that mostly nolva is being used, as it seems ralox has less sides?


 Nolvadex is A LOT easier to find than ralox. It seems there has been a ralox shortage, might be partially my fault haha.

Nolvadex has more sides and technically does not work as well for gyno, but it usually does the job.

To quote the study:

Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen (nolvadex) and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%).

Nolvadex will usually do the trick though. They both can work on decades old gyno even, very amazing.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo in relation to your comments above regarding ai use,
> 
> Can using an ai when you don't need to cause pain in your joints or cramps?
> 
> I'm currently on a blast, 750mg test e a week and usually take 12.5mg pharma aromasin mwf or Tues Thurs. I stopped for three weeks recently after running out, and noticed a few nagging injuries felt much much better.... Related or coincidence? Libido and mood are much better also, sleep too. I do feel that I look watery though, then again it is a bulk and I'm eating more, drinking lots of fluids, training harder etc. I was just surprised that specifically a shoudler injury related to the superspinatus tendon (and/or muscle) was pain free when working out.
> 
> Thanks.


 Yes, that is one of the most common symptoms of AI use. In the last few years, the bodybuilding underground has seen a huge overuseage of AI due to fears of gyno and other symptoms. That has shifted in the last two years and more people are starting to advise against overusing AI. A little goes a long way and many people end up crashing their Estradiol.

Exactly, many of the great effects of testosterone come from it's aromatization in the body and brain into estradiol. Studies show that giving testosterone with AI cancels out many of the positive effects.

Nagging, stiff and painful joints are the 2nd most common symptom after erectile dysfunction/loss of libido with low E2/AI overdose.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Nolvadex is A LOT easier to find than ralox. It seems there has been a ralox shortage, might be partially my fault haha.
> 
> Nolvadex has more sides and technically does not work as well for gyno, but it usually does the job.
> 
> To quote the study:
> 
> Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen (nolvadex) and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%).
> 
> Nolvadex will usually do the trick though. They both can work on decades old gyno even, very amazing.


 Nice, will try to get some ralox if possible tho.

Do you do any coaching services, or you recommend any1 - Im not from UK so doesnt have to be from there.

Will people usually need an ai for 400mg test a week? Seems like most recommend an AI for first cycle but I find many people who now start saying that AI is not really needed on that low test, and only start using AI if you feel the sides.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice, will try to get some ralox if possible tho.
> 
> Do you do any coaching services, or you recommend any1 - Im not from UK so doesnt have to be from there.
> 
> Will people usually need an ai for 400mg test a week? Seems like most recommend an AI for first cycle but I find many people who now start saying that AI is not really needed on that low test, and only start using AI if you feel the sides.


 Hit up @ghost.recon

It depends, some people get by fine without it. E2 can get high for most, but some people don't get symptoms. You can either start with 0.5-1 mg per week or wait until you feel symptoms. E2 is important for some of the positive effects of testosterone, so you don't want to suppress it. High E2 is better than low E2.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Hit up @ghost.recon
> 
> It depends, some people get by fine without it. E2 can get high for most, but some people don't get symptoms. You can either start with 0.5-1 mg per week or wait until you feel symptoms. E2 is important for some of the positive effects of testosterone, so you don't want to suppress it. High E2 is better than low E2.


 okay thx!

If a used vial get some rubber floating inside the vial, is it still okay to use? It was fine before I opnened it, but I think it may be because Im using 21g to draw?
What happens if you accidently inject some of the rubber thats floating inside the vial?


----------



## DORIAN

What's your thoughts on prone Y lifts for lower trap/shoulder strength during a injury, could they be beneficial thanks ?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay thx!
> 
> If a used vial get some rubber floating inside the vial, is it still okay to use? It was fine before I opnened it, but I think it may be because Im using 21g to draw?
> What happens if you accidently inject some of the rubber thats floating inside the vial?


 Just suck out the rubber pieces. 21 gauge is okay, but you want to stab it into the rubber stopper with the pointy edge first.

If you inject the rubber, your body will encase it/seal it off and it will be harmless 90% of the time. Other times it could cause an immune reaction or infection. Many people have injected rubber and don't realize, especially bodybuilders who have many years and volume of oils under their belt.


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> What's your thoughts on prone Y lifts for lower trap/shoulder strength during a injury, could they be beneficial thanks ?


 I'm not familiar with the exercise, but the magic of rehab/recovery comes from starting light and slowly adding weight to strengthen the weakened limb back to prior level of function. It's the same thing as building muscle.


----------



## DORIAN

ElChapo said:


> I'm not familiar with the exercise, but the magic of rehab/recovery comes from starting light and slowly adding weight to strengthen the weakened limb back to prior level of function. It's the same thing as building muscle.


 It's a body weight exercise, Iv just noticed it myself, you lie face down retract scapula and lift hand straight up in a Y shape,


----------



## ElChapo

DORIAN said:


> It's a body weight exercise, Iv just noticed it myself, you lie face down retract scapula and lift hand straight up in a Y shape,


 Yeah i googled it, i would just say with any rehab exercise, start light and add a bit of weight each time until you get the body part very strong.


----------



## shay1490

How would u rate using both nolva and ralox to treat gyno?


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> How would u rate using both nolva and ralox to treat gyno?


 They both work.

Ralox is slightly more effective and has none or very little side effects most of the time, but it is harder to obtain. There is a shortage.

Nolva is slightly less effective but will work 90% of the time. Side effects are more prevalent and include brain fod, impaired mood/libido as the most common ones. Some people will get zero sides from nolvadex though. It is very easy to find and acquire.


----------



## Frankie.88

How bad are cholesterol test results? Should i be worrying or are these levels "fixable"? Thanks

View attachment 173893


----------



## Frankie.88

Frankie.88 said:


> How bad are cholesterol test results? Should i be worrying or are these levels "fixable"? Thanks


 Anyone?


----------



## TALBOTL

Frankie.88 said:


> Anyone?


 El Chapo will be around later in the day to give you a more in depth answer, but yes they are fixable and will of course be out of range as you have just ran Anavar for 12 weeks.


----------



## Frankie.88

TALBOTL said:


> El Chapo will be around later in the day to give you a more in depth answer, but yes they are fixable and will of course be out of range as you have just ran Anavar for 12 weeks.


 Thanks for that..


----------



## TALBOTL

Frankie.88 said:


> Thanks for that..


 Anavar is well know to nuke your lipids mate and you ran it for a considerable time at 12 weeks, but they'll be back in normal range within no time. As I say though El Chapo is the man to provide a more detailed reply to the results themselves.


----------



## ElChapo

Frankie.88 said:


> How bad are cholesterol test results? Should i be worrying or are these levels "fixable"? Thanks
> 
> View attachment 173893


 That depends entirely on what you are on. Were you on any AAS when you got this blood work? If you were not, how long before were you on AAS?


----------



## ElChapo

Frankie.88 said:


> Thanks for that..


 If this was on or just after anavar, it's expect. Orals and tren hit cholesterol hard. It will recover itself, nothing to worry about unless your run that anavar dose year round for a long time.


----------



## Frankie.88

ElChapo said:


> If this was on or just after anavar, it's expect. Orals and tren hit cholesterol hard. It will recover itself, nothing to worry about unless your run that anavar dose year round for a long time.


 Yeh this was last week after 12+ Weeks of test e and anavar at 50mg Pd, i stopped the var since getting the results , i was planning on running it for another few weeks but wanted to make sure i was ok to do so with these levels ? Should i continue the var for 3 more weeks or stay off it ? Thanks for replies


----------



## ElChapo

Frankie.88 said:


> Yeh this was last week after 12+ Weeks of test e and anavar at 50mg Pd, i stopped the var since getting the results , i was planning on running it for another few weeks but wanted to make sure i was ok to do so with these levels ? Should i continue the var for 3 more weeks or stay off it ? Thanks for replies


 Just finish it off, bad lipids won't kill you short term.

Having bad lipids, year round, for many years will lead to cardiovascular changes that can increase the risk of heart attack/stroke.


----------



## Frankie.88

ElChapo said:


> Just finish it off, bad lipids won't kill you short term.
> 
> Having bad lipids, year round, for many years will lead to cardiovascular changes that can increase the risk of heart attack/stroke.


 Excellent thanks for your advice once again , have a good weekend


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo I've had gyno since puberty about 10 years+, had surgery but the surgeon didn't remove it all and I still feel lumps etc. Now that I'm on AAS the gyno hasn't gotten worse. I was wondering if there's still hope that running Nolvadex everyday for a few months will have some benefit in reducing the size eventhough it's been there for so long. Thank you.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

I've just purchased an omron blood pressure monitor as I'm blasting and cruising and want to keep an eye on my blood pressure, what's the protocol for checking BP? Do I need to check it every day and whens best time to check, morning, afternoon or evening? What's the best numbers to look for? I'm 27 and 81kg

Thank you!


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo I've had gyno since puberty about 10 years+, had surgery but the surgeon didn't remove it all and I still feel lumps etc. Now that I'm on AAS the gyno hasn't gotten worse. I was wondering if there's still hope that running Nolvadex everyday for a few months will have some benefit in reducing the size eventhough it's been there for so long. Thank you.


 Yes, research has shown it can work on pubertal gyno as well. Give it 12 weeks, it can even work up to 12 months but most people don't need it for that long.

Are you on any AAS? Do you know your natural testosterone/E2 levels?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I've just purchased an omron blood pressure monitor as I'm blasting and cruising and want to keep an eye on my blood pressure, what's the protocol for checking BP? Do I need to check it every day and whens best time to check, morning, afternoon or evening? What's the best numbers to look for? I'm 27 and 81kg
> 
> Thank you!


 You can check it as often as you like, anytime of the day when you are at rest and relaxing. Don't take it close to physical activity as this can throw off the reading.

Short term you want it under 160 /100, long term you want it under 140/90. Absolute max long term you want is 100-130 and 50-85.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> You can check it as often as you like, anytime of the day when you are at rest and relaxing. Don't take it close to physical activity as this can throw off the reading.
> 
> Short term you want it under 160 /100, long term you want it under 140/90. Absolute max long term you want is 100-130 and 50-85.


 Brilliant, thank you! I done it yesterday and it was 133/76 and resting heart rate was 66

I'm due to give blood in 3 weeks, will this alter blood pressure too?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant, thank you! I done it yesterday and it was 133/76 and resting heart rate was 66
> 
> I'm due to give blood in 3 weeks, will this alter blood pressure too?


 It can lower BP if you have high hematocrit, but not always.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Just suck out the rubber pieces. 21 gauge is okay, but you want to stab it into the rubber stopper with the pointy edge first.
> 
> If you inject the rubber, your body will encase it/seal it off and it will be harmless 90% of the time. Other times it could cause an immune reaction or infection. Many people have injected rubber and don't realize, especially bodybuilders who have many years and volume of oils under their belt.


 Thank you - if you are about to get an infection, how soon can you tell, and what to look for?


----------



## Jordan08

Is it safe to use N-Acetylcysteine as a general well being supplement for someone who is not into steroids?.

If yes, any other aspect to consider before supplementing with it?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

A mates been on for seven months, wants kids, has heard of various pct protocols, his intent is pct, increase fertility and doesn't care if he goes back on or doesn't but wants to recover if possible. I ran this below many years ago and it worked a treat after five years b&c.

Can you recommend anything different or would it be sufficient? Last jab was a week ago for him

Day 1: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 2: 10mg aromasin

Day 3: 10mg aromasin

Day 4: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 5: 10mg aromasin

Day 6: 10mg aromasin

Day 7: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 8: 10mg aromasin

Day 9: 10mg aromasin

Day 10: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 11: 10mg aromasin

Day 12: 10mg aromasin

Day 13: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 14: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 15: 10mg aromasin

Day 16: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 17: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 18: 10mg aromasin

Day 19: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 20: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin

Day 21: 100mg clomid (50mg am, 50mg pm), 10mg nolvadex (pm)

Day 22 - 30: 50mg clomid (am), 10mg nolvadex (pm)

Day 30-40: 10mg nolvadex (pm)


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you - if you are about to get an infection, how soon can you tell, and what to look for?


 Fever is your best bet but PIP and infection have almost the same exact symptoms.

Always make sure you swab the area with alcohol, the infectious abscess cases i've seen are usually from people who don't bother swabbing the area.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Is it safe to use N-Acetylcysteine as a general well being supplement for someone who is not into steroids?.
> 
> If yes, any other aspect to consider before supplementing with it?


 It's not a bad supplement, it's a good antioxidant, it increases your levels of glutathione, one of the most poweful natural antioxidants in your body.

Fun facts:

It can also smell like farts/rotten egs due to the high sulfure content of the cysteine molecule.

It is also used as an antidote for acetaminophen/tylenol overdose for people attempting suicide, it's known as "mucomyst" in the hospital setting. It replenishes the liver's natural defense against toxins by restoring the glutathione depleted by the toxic insult of drugs like acetaminophen.

You can read more about it here:

https://examine.com/supplements/n-acetylcysteine/


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> A mates been on for seven months, wants kids, has heard of various pct protocols, his intent is pct, increase fertility and doesn't care if he goes back on or doesn't but wants to recover if possible. I ran this below many years ago and it worked a treat after five years b&c.
> 
> Can you recommend anything different or would it be sufficient? Last jab was a week ago for him
> 
> Day 1: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 2: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 3: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 4: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 5: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 6: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 7: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 8: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 9: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 10: 1500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 11: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 12: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 13: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 14: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 15: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 16: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 17: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 18: 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 19: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 20: 500iu hcg, 10mg aromasin
> 
> Day 21: 100mg clomid (50mg am, 50mg pm), 10mg nolvadex (pm)
> 
> Day 22 - 30: 50mg clomid (am), 10mg nolvadex (pm)
> 
> Day 30-40: 10mg nolvadex (pm)


 Clomid 100 mg daily until conception. This will stimulate endogenous gonadotropin production of LH/FSH which will stimulate spermatogenesis. A good sign it's working is that testosterone levels are restored to normal or high-normal while running it.

The other option is running HMG at 75 IU x 3 per week which has worked for some people as well. This is synthetic LH/FSH.

HCG can also substitute HMG but it's not as effective, the dose would be at least 1,500 per week.

Aromasin and nolvadex are poor fertility drugs. (Aromasin can give a little negative feedback to increase LH/FSH via lowering E2 and so can nolvadex via receptor blockage but not as effectively as clomid/clomiphene and HMG which will directly activate the leydig and sertolli cells in the testicles to produce sperm and testosterone)

HCG is really good for maintaining fertility and making recovery easier WHILE on cycle, but loses it's value off cycle. It should be used as a preventative measure to maintain fertility during AAS useage and/or TRT if fertility or testicle size is a concern to you.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> It's not a bad supplement, it's a good antioxidant, it increases your levels of glutathione, one of the most poweful natural antioxidants in your body.
> 
> Fun facts:
> 
> It can also smell like farts/rotten egs due to the high sulfure content of the cysteine molecule.
> 
> It is also used as an antidote for acetaminophen/tylenol overdose for people attempting suicide, it's known as "mucomyst" in the hospital setting. It replenishes the liver's natural defense against toxins by restoring the glutathione depleted by the toxic insult of drugs like acetaminophen.
> 
> You can read more about it here:
> 
> https://examine.com/supplements/n-acetylcysteine/


 Thanks for your input. I am thinking of supplementing it 1200mg per day.

Is it to be taken on empty stomach?. Have read that it should be taken with Vitamin C (2:1 ; Vit C : NAC). Is it so?. Thanks again


----------



## Baka

if someone been on AAS for years WITHOUT HCG and decide to use it for fertility to have a kid , while not going off cycle , would HCG still be useful ? and at which dosage ?


----------



## Pancake'

What are your thoughts on sissy squats as an exercise? I hear a good deal of hype around them, looking to utilise them as a finishing exercise.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Thanks for your input. I am thinking of supplementing it 1200mg per day.
> 
> Is it to be taken on empty stomach?. Have read that it should be taken with Vitamin C (2:1 ; Vit C : NAC). Is it so?. Thanks again


 No need to overcomplicate it , take it with food or empty stomach.

What is your goal? Antioxidation?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> if someone been on AAS for years WITHOUT HCG and decide to use it for fertility to have a kid , while not going off cycle , would HCG still be useful ? and at which dosage ?


 It can be, i recommend a minimum of 1,500 IU per week.

LH/FSH are better at stimulating spermatogenesis than HCG, that's why clomid or HMG is recommend over HCG when you are trying to conceive.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> No need to overcomplicate it , take it with food or empty stomach.
> 
> What is your goal? Antioxidation?


 Yes. Antioxidation. In addition, healthy liver aids good appetite if i am not wrong. So, a appetite is another reason.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Yes. Antioxidation. In addition, healthy liver aids good appetite if i am not wrong. So, a appetite is another reason.


 If you're having trouble hitting calorie goals for bulking, focus on simple carbs like cereal with whole milk. You can eat a ton of that and pack in serious calories.

500-1000 mg NAC per day is plenty. Vitamin C can synergize with it on the antioxidant end too.

Check out that page i linked you too, it will show you benefits from NAC proven by studies and how the compound works, etc. Very good info


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

What's your views on weightlifting belts? I always used a powerlifting belt when doing deads, squats or bench. I rarely use one these days, pros and cons?


----------



## ElChapo

sos2008 said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> Wondering if you can help with my post cycle bloods I have started a thread but would appreciate your input if possible:
> 
> Background:
> 
> Ran 14 week Test E 420mg per week (first cycle)
> 
> Ran 4 week PCT, 3 weeks after last jab was 50/50/25/25 Clomid & 20/20/20/10 Nolva
> 
> Used HCG throughout
> 
> Pre Cycle Bloods:
> 
> Test: 26 (8-29 range)
> 
> Estrogen: 130 (41 - 159 range)
> 
> Prolactin: 270 (86 - 324 range)
> 
> Post Cycle bloods (5 weeks after PCT finished)
> 
> Test: 21 (8-29 range)
> 
> Estrogen: 80 (41 - 159 range)
> 
> **Prolactin: 455 (86 - 324 range)
> 
> I thought it was only 19nors that interfere with Prolactin? Could you advise what the best course of action is to take or just leave it for a while? Everything else (LH FSH etc is back within range too). FYI feel completely fine, strength is increasing even off cycle, want to go back on next month so ideally want it sorted.


 It's probably from the clomid, make sure to not have sex or masturbate close to blood draw as this can increase prolactin levels.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What's your views on weightlifting belts? I always used a powerlifting belt when doing deads, squats or bench. I rarely use one these days, pros and cons?


 I think it's a crutch similar to straps (which do have their place in training sometimes). I don't use straps or belt, but they can be good tools if you want to hit the muscles hard with deads & squats but your back and hands are fatiguing too quickly.

Developing a very strong core has the same effect as using a belt, similar to how a strong grip is to straps. Make sure you use valsalva technique and keep your abs tight during heavy lifts, this optimizes power transfer, protects the back from injury and makes the lift feel easier.


----------



## Jay Walker

Well this thread is a real treasure, best thing I've read on the forum.

@ElChapo I am currently off TRT, trying to regain my fertility at the grand age of 42.

Have used HCG intermittently during my TRT, had sperm test completed 2 weeks after coming off, which was zero.

Currently using HMG/HCG, low dose clomid and proviron/tamoxifen.

My question is, HMG instructions always say intra muscular for injection, is it better this route for HCG/HMG or zero difference ?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo Any supplements/advice to improve recovery or allow more volume? Trying to improve as a boxer as well as lift weights for hypertrophy, but finding recovery an issue which seems to limit muscle growth entirely. Besides anabolics (which are used), I can't afford HGH and find MK677 a horrible drug, what would you reccomend? (Obviously sleep and nutrition are first)


----------



## ElChapo

Jay Walker said:


> Well this thread is a real treasure, best thing I've read on the forum.
> 
> @ElChapo I am currently off TRT, trying to regain my fertility at the grand age of 42.
> 
> Have used HCG intermittently during my TRT, had sperm test completed 2 weeks after coming off, which was zero.
> 
> Currently using HMG/HCG, low dose clomid and proviron/tamoxifen.
> 
> My question is, HMG instructions always say intra muscular for injection, is it better this route for HCG/HMG or zero difference ?


 Intramuscular has better bioavailability/absorption due to richer blood supply in muscle tissue. It's faster and stronger peak too.

There are studies that say for example, that HGH breaks down while you are absorbing it and that is is more likely happening with subq shots.

I always recommend IM for everything due to the rich blood supply and with insulin needles of 29-31 gauge 1/2 inch, IM injections are completely painless.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo Any supplements/advice to improve recovery or allow more volume? Trying to improve as a boxer as well as lift weights for hypertrophy, but finding recovery an issue which seems to limit muscle growth entirely. Besides anabolics (which are used), I can't afford HGH and find MK677 a horrible drug, what would you reccomend? (Obviously sleep and nutrition are first)


 How often are you training in weights/boxing? Training with weights and boxing will make recovery from both much harder.

I know a gym that had a few successful fighters who started declining because the gym pushed too much volume/intensity/frequency for weight training, and the guys stopped winning competitions. You have to be really careful with weight training, the volume/frequency has to be pretty low if you want to use it for fighting.

If you look around, there is some cheap and high quality chinese generic GH that has been around for almost 10 years.

Give me more information and your training routine, if you aren't recovering, you should cut back on something. Is your priority boxing or gaining muscle?


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> How often are you training in weights/boxing? Training with weights and boxing will make recovery from both much harder.
> 
> I know a gym that had a few successful fighters who started declining because the gym pushed too much volume/intensity/frequency for weight training, and the guys stopped winning competitions. You have to be really careful with weight training, the volume/frequency has to be pretty low if you want to use it for fighting.
> 
> If you look around, there is some cheap and high quality chinese generic GH that has been around for almost 10 years.
> 
> Give me more information and your training routine, if you aren't recovering, you should cut back on something. Is your priority boxing or gaining muscle?


 Are you referring to hygetropin when you talk about the high quality generic GH?

Current training is each bodypart once per week with volume at about 6-8 sets per muscle group, split into 4 weekly workouts. Boxing twice a week and running once also.

If I were to invest in GH, would it have a large benefit to recovery or is it minor?

thanks


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Intramuscular has better bioavailability/absorption due to richer blood supply in muscle tissue. It's faster and stronger peak too.
> 
> There are studies that say for example, that HGH breaks down while you are absorbing it and that is is more likely happening with subq shots.
> 
> I always recommend IM for everything due to the rich blood supply and with insulin needles of 29-31 gauge 1/2 inch, IM injections are completely painless.


 Are you saying hgh and hcg, hmg should all be Im? Interesting as I started using hcg sub q last year and didn't feel it had the same effect


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Fever is your best bet but PIP and infection have almost the same exact symptoms.
> 
> Always make sure you swab the area with alcohol, the infectious abscess cases i've seen are usually from people who don't bother swabbing the area.


 Okay always do!

When taking orals, should you take tudca same time when taking orals or dose it interfere with each other somehow? Same question for nolva and AI, can/should they be taken with orals or dosed away from them?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Are you referring to hygetropin when you talk about the high quality generic GH?
> 
> Current training is each bodypart once per week with volume at about 6-8 sets per muscle group, split into 4 weekly workouts. Boxing twice a week and running once also.
> 
> If I were to invest in GH, would it have a large benefit to recovery or is it minor?
> 
> thanks


 I won't name specific names on here, but there's a ton of blood work and anecdotal reviews confirming potency of generic GH.

The best thing to do is find a good source with a reputation, order a kit, run a GH serum test for yourself and confirm it's legit. You can then run an IGF-1 test to see how your body responds.

The average response for correctly dosed GH is 300 IGF for 3 IU, 400 IGF for 4 IU, etc.

Some people will respond lower due to genetics or taking certain compounds like nolvadex, tren/deca, etc. There's a misconception that the liver "converts" GH into IGF-1.

GH signals the liver to produce IGF-1, like LH/FSH signal the testes to produce testosterone and TSH signals the thyroid to produce T4/T3.

The recovery boost is more noticeable if you are older or have lower IGF-1 numbers than normal for your age, it can stack nicely with AAS, but it's not necessary for most people who train to build muscle. It's effective for anti-aging, recovery/injury healing, and building mass for advanced/elite bodybuilders when stack with insulin.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Are you saying hgh and hcg, hmg should all be Im? Interesting as I started using hcg sub q last year and didn't feel it had the same effect


 Due to the rich blood supply in muscle tissue, the peptide hormones and AAS oils get absorbed faster and more efficiently than in the less vascular adipose tissue.

You get a faster, higher serum peak and more absorption of the compound. Some studies hypothesize that while the GH is sitting in the fat waiting to be absorbed, some of it gets lost because it breaks down before it's absorbed. The difference is negligible at the end of the day and subq is still effective.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay always do!
> 
> When taking orals, should you take tudca same time when taking orals or dose it interfere with each other somehow? Same question for nolva and AI, can/should they be taken with orals or dosed away from them?


 You can mix them together, it doesn't matter. All the TUDCA/UDCA does is keep the bile flowing through your liver. Orals cause the bile to back up, and this causes toxins/enzymes/etc and other substances to build up in the liver and this is one of the ways orals cause liver damage. This is called Cholestasis.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Due to the rich blood supply in muscle tissue, the peptide hormones and AAS oils get absorbed faster and more efficiently than in the less vascular adipose tissue.
> 
> You get a faster, higher serum peak and more absorption of the compound. Some studies hypothesize that while the GH is sitting in the fat waiting to be absorbed, some of it gets lost because it breaks down before it's absorbed. The difference is negligible at the end of the day and subq is still effective.


 Does that apply to the likes of mt2 also? Thanks for the info, absolute gold mine of info here.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Does that apply to the likes of mt2 also? Thanks for the info, absolute gold mine of info here.


 Yeah, MT2 is a peptide hormone if i'm not mistaken. Any injectable needs to reach the bloodstream, the muscle tissue is very rich in vasculature, so that oil/water gets absorbed into the body much faster and more effectively.


----------



## Jay Walker

@ElChapo I've read various opinions of whether there is merit in running clomid at the same time as HMG. I have been running 25mg daily with 75iu x 2 HMG alongside HCG and tamoxifen.

You think the clomid will hinder things? or keep in the mix.

Thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

Jay Walker said:


> @ElChapo I've read various opinions of whether there is merit in running clomid at the same time as HMG. I have been running 25mg daily with 75iu x 2 HMG alongside HCG and tamoxifen.
> 
> You think the clomid will hinder things? or keep in the mix.
> 
> Thanks again.


 For fertility? It wouldn't hurt.


----------



## Jay Walker

ElChapo said:


> For fertility? It wouldn't hurt.


 Yeah I'm not aiming for recovery, just want to get this job done and get back on TRT.

Thanks.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You can mix them together, it doesn't matter. All the TUDCA/UDCA does is keep the bile flowing through your liver. Orals cause the bile to back up, and this causes toxins/enzymes/etc and other substances to build up in the liver and this is one of the ways orals cause liver damage. This is called Cholestasis.


 Great - which supplements do you recommend? Vitamins etc and why you recommend the ones you do?


----------



## Jay Walker

@ElChapo

Bloods taken yesterday, is it worth doing anything for that prolactin?

These were pre proviron, which started yesterday.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great - which supplements do you recommend? Vitamins etc and why you recommend the ones you do?


 Supplements for what? The basics would be a good multivitamin, Vitamin D (with a fatty meal/5,000 IU) if you don't get lots of sunlight year round.


----------



## ElChapo

Jay Walker said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Bloods taken yesterday, is it worth doing anything for that prolactin?
> 
> These were pre proviron, which started yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 174125


 Prolactin might be from the Nolvadex or one of the things you are taking. If you had sex or masturbated close to the blood draw, prolactin levels will be higher.

I would like to see your testosterone levels after starting clomid. Nolvadex is a poor fertility drug, clomid is much stronger for stimulating endogenous testosterone production and spermatogenesis.


----------



## Jay Walker

ElChapo said:


> Prolactin might be from the Nolvadex or one of the things you are taking. If you had sex or masturbated close to the blood draw, prolactin levels will be higher.
> 
> I would like to see your testosterone levels after starting clomid. Nolvadex is a poor fertility drug, clomid is much stronger for stimulating endogenous testosterone production and spermatogenesis.


 I had literally given a sample of my sperm 20 mins before.

Im still using Clomid with the tamoxifen, 25mg every day. I can't stomach side effects at 50mg per day, I'm borderline now.


----------



## Pancake'

What dose would you recommend for a tbol only cycle? I had in mind 60mg for 10 weeks.

What PCT protocol would you advise?

How would you go about dealing with any arising back pumps?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Jay Walker said:


> I had literally given a sample of my sperm 20 mins before.
> 
> Im still using Clomid with the tamoxifen, 25mg every day. I can't stomach side effects at 50mg per day, I'm borderline now.


 That's likely why prolactin was higher. Prolactin is what creates the refractory period after sex, so elevated prolactin is normal and expected after orgasm.

Fun fact: Orgasm from intercourse produces a lot more prolactin than masturbation.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What dose would you recommend for a tbol only cycle? I had in mind 60mg for 10 weeks.
> 
> What PCT protocol would you advise?
> 
> How would you go about dealing with any arising back pumps?
> 
> Thanks


 Yeah, 40-60 mg is typical. It depends on the goal of the cycle. Mass, sports, etc.

Clomiphene 100 mg for 4 weeks should do the job for PCT. Ideally you would run HMG or HCG with the TBOL to maximize the chances of full recovery.

Some people claim taurine helps with back pumps( i dont know if this actually works),

My theory is that it's just regular lactic acid build up in the lower back muscles. People have poor posture and core control due to weak abdominals and dominant lower back muscles that compensate. I think making your core very strong and training it x 2-3 per week with moderate weight/high rep cable crunches will fix the issue. Just a theory of mine though.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> That's likely why prolactin was higher. Prolactin is what creates the refractory period after sex, so elevated prolactin is normal and expected after orgasm.
> 
> Fun fact: Orgasm from intercourse produces a lot more prolactin than masturbation.


 So taking caber reduces the refractory period? Cialis seems to do this also


----------



## cell-tech

When is the best time to take blood for a blood test from medi checks if using 150mg test enenthate per week?

So if inject on monday evening how many days should i wait to draw the blood to get the most accurate reading?

Also i have a 5000iu amp of hcg - if i mix it with bac water how many weeks can i keep it in the syringe for? Im planning on doing 1000iu a week alongside my 150mg test per week so would it last for 5 weeks after mixing?

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> So taking caber reduces the refractory period? Cialis seems to do this also


 It should and anecdotally, people say it helps. Cialis can reduce it because it increases erection quality/frequency(via vascular mechanism) so much that it can overcome the prolactin surge.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> When is the best time to take blood for a blood test from medi checks if using 150mg test enenthate per week?
> 
> So if inject on monday evening how many days should i wait to draw the blood to get the most accurate reading?
> 
> Also i have a 5000iu amp of hcg - if i mix it with bac water how many weeks can i keep it in the syringe for? Im planning on doing 1000iu a week alongside my 150mg test per week so would it last for 5 weeks after mixing?
> 
> thanks


 It depends, i like to get trough levels, so the day of injection before you inject would give you the lowest levels of the week.

Some guys metabolise testosterone very fast and can have a big spike after injection and by day 7 be very low, other guys metabolize it more slowly so there levels are more stable.

If you are a fast metabolizer, you should inject x 2 week.

HCG will be good for 1-3 months in bac water in the fridge. It's more stable than HGH is. It will definitely last 5 weeks.


----------



## MrGRoberts

Hey @ElChapo

If you have been diagnosed with Paroxymal Supraventricular tachycardia what AAS is still okay to take? HGH?

Or is it best to come off altogether and be natural? (Please no)


----------



## Pancake'

Just how suppressive is DHB?

Thoughts on M1T & Epistane as compounds?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo about raloxifene being bad for cognition etc , is there any proofs/study on it ?

I've searched and couldn't find any for healthy male , I only found positive studies in post menopause women and schysophrenia men and women


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Hey @ElChapo
> 
> If you have been diagnosed with Paroxymal Supraventricular tachycardia what AAS is still okay to take? HGH?
> 
> Or is it best to come off altogether and be natural? (Please no)


 Steroids can cause or worsen arrhythmia and PSVT is a risk factor for atrial fibrillation. A cardiologist would tell you not to touch anything of course, but to give you my opinion i would have to read more about the pathogenesis of the disorder, causes, etc. It's likely that androgens, especially harsher ones like trenbolone and/or higher doses of testosterone would make the issue worse.

A high TRT dose and 2-3 IU HGH would be likely be the safest course for you.

It seems the AAS can worsen, cause or increase the risk of heart arrhythmias and other problems similar to PSVT, but low testosterone levels may also be a risk factor.

What are your physique goals? Many people don't need a ton of muscle and AAS to look how they want/achieve their dream physique. Most people will look amazing with a decent amount of muscle mass and low body fat levels (7-12%).

What kind of physique are you hoping to build?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Just how suppressive is DHB?
> 
> Thoughts on M1T & Epistane as compounds?


 Likely not very suppressive in comparison to testosterone or 19-nors as it does not aromatize to estradiol and does not seem to have progestin binding ability.

Androgen+Estrogen+Progestin have a synergistic suppression effect, that's why Deca/Tren will cook your balls so hard and fast.

I don't know much about the prohormones, it's a better idea to just run the known and effective oral AAS instead of the prohormones which don't have as much research behind them, can also be liver toxic, etc.

Many male and female athletes run winstrol or anavar solo cycles. Not optimal as it can shut down your endogenous testosterone production, but it does work.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo about raloxifene being bad for cognition etc , is there any proofs/study on it ?
> 
> I've searched and couldn't find any for healthy male , I only found positive studies in post menopause women and schysophrenia men and women


 I believe Raloxifene might have actually been shown to have some positive effects on cognition in some people (likely women) as it's behavior as an estrogen. Estrogen is important for males and females for optimal cognition. This is the theory behind why Nolvadex can cause brain fog/neurotoxicity, because it blocks brain estrogen receptors.

They did a study on two groups of men, one got TRT, the other group got TRT+AI. The TRT+AI group did not see the improvement in visual spatial and verbal memory/cognition like the TRT only group. Estrogen is extremely important for male/female health, especially in the brain. This is why AI can wreak havoc on mood, libido and brain function when overused.

I believe the ralox improves post-menopause/schizo cognition due to the fact that those two populations typically have low estrogen levels. Estrogen improves schizophrenia symptoms and alleviates menopause symptoms. This is why it may not do the same for healthy men and premenopausal women.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> I believe Raloxifene might have actually been shown to have some positive effects on cognition in some people (likely women) as it's behavior as an estrogen. Estrogen is important for males and females for optimal cognition. This is the theory behind why Nolvadex can cause brain fog/neurotoxicity, because it blocks brain estrogen receptors.
> 
> They did a study on two groups of men, one got TRT, the other group got TRT+AI. The TRT+AI group did not see the improvement in visual spatial and verbal memory/cognition like the TRT only group. Estrogen is extremely important for male/female health, especially in the brain. This is why AI can wreak havoc on mood, libido and brain function when overused.
> 
> I believe the ralox improves post-menopause/schizo cognition due to the fact that those two populations typically have low estrogen levels. Estrogen improves schizophrenia symptoms and alleviates menopause symptoms. This is why it may not do the same for healthy men and premenopausal women.


 yes that's true , but how can it be bad for healthy male then ?

I mean there may not be any benefits , but could it decline cognition like tamoxifen ?

Since raloxifene acts like an estrogen in the brain , could it make your more 'girly' in some way ?

I stopped a month ago and it didn't change much , I've got less brain fogs but it may be from dropping Tbol low dose but unfortunately gyno is growing back even with perfeclty ranged E2 , and I can't get the gyno cut before months or even a year


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Steroids can cause or worsen arrhythmia and PSVT is a risk factor for atrial fibrillation. A cardiologist would tell you not to touch anything of course, but to give you my opinion i would have to read more about the pathogenesis of the disorder, causes, etc. It's likely that androgens, especially harsher ones like trenbolone and/or higher doses of testosterone would make the issue worse.
> 
> A high TRT dose and 2-3 IU HGH would be likely be the safest course for you.
> 
> It seems the AAS can worsen, cause or increase the risk of heart arrhythmias and other problems similar to PSVT, but low testosterone levels may also be a risk factor.
> 
> What are your physique goals? Many people don't need a ton of muscle and AAS to look how they want/achieve their dream physique. Most people will look amazing with a decent amount of muscle mass and low body fat levels (7-12%).
> 
> What kind of physique are you hoping to build?


 Thanks. I for sure will not be taking any 19nors ever again.

I have been blasting/cruising for a few years but never really gone crazy on the dosages. Nothing over 1g a week total for a blast.

I do not want to gain any more muscle I just want to get leaner and more athletic/good fitness.

I am worried that if I come off testosterone that I will feel like crap for ages and I won't recover. I did try and come off altogether for a good 6 months and my natural test levels were 3.02nmol so I just decided to go back on test again.

I want to be around 100kg and under 15% body fat but with good fitness levels

thanks


----------



## TALBOTL

Just a quick one not related to anything steroid/PEDS, sorry to bother you again!

An elderly family friend fell a while back and cut her leg, at first it bruised and then recently a cut opened up, it has been heavily bandaged for a while 4-5 weeks now to try and speed up healing and she was also on penicillin & anti biotics for a few weeks, neither of which have really helped. A swab was taken last week to check if there is any infection or abnormality causing it to not heal but it is leaking clear fluid quite considerably.

We're worried about it and have ZERO trust in the doctors, who have already let it become pretty much infected by the look of things! There are no real endocrinology services around here either to assist.

Just wondered if you can suggest any supplementation or similar which may assist? I appreciate without all the specifics you can only advise so much but any help is much appreciated.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> yes that's true , but how can it be bad for healthy male then ?
> 
> I mean there may not be any benefits , but could it decline cognition like tamoxifen ?
> 
> Since raloxifene acts like an estrogen in the brain , could it make your more 'girly' in some way ?
> 
> I stopped a month ago and it didn't change much , I've got less brain fogs but it may be from dropping Tbol low dose but unfortunately gyno is growing back even with perfeclty ranged E2 , and I can't get the gyno cut before months or even a year


 A healthy male will already have optimal E2, adding a SERM is going to disrupt the balance.

A postmenopausal female will have very low E2, so adding some will help them.

We don't know if can cause cognitive problems like nolvadex, there is not enough research, i just know its likely not smart to take it year round indefinitely because of that fact.

Raloxifene is does not just act as an estrogen, it is also am estrogen blocker depending on the site. It acts as an estrogen in bone and liver. (Its given to people to increase bone density) but it acts as an estrogen blocker in the mammary glands, that's why it works to reverse gynecomastia.

What is your natural testosterone/E2 Level off of everything? If you are running tbol only you might be supressing your natural testosterone and DHT which can increase risk of gyno, also, its possible the tbol is dbol. This is why people dont recommend oral only cycles.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Thanks. I for sure will not be taking any 19nors ever again.
> 
> I have been blasting/cruising for a few years but never really gone crazy on the dosages. Nothing over 1g a week total for a blast.
> 
> I do not want to gain any more muscle I just want to get leaner and more athletic/good fitness.
> 
> I am worried that if I come off testosterone that I will feel like crap for ages and I won't recover. I did try and come off altogether for a good 6 months and my natural test levels were 3.02nmol so I just decided to go back on test again.
> 
> I want to be around 100kg and under 15% body fat but with good fitness levels
> 
> thanks


 Do not go off testosterone unless you can recover your levels to at least average (very unlikely)

Quitting testosterone for the sake of it is something ive been seeing a lot of lately. Low testosterone is a major risk factor for heart disease, depression, diabetes, dementia, osteoperosis, and a ton of other issue. Testosterone is very good for your body in the right dosage.

If you want to maintain, you can do a high TRT dose with some GH.

200 mg test+3 IU GH should the the job, add cardio, keep your BP and HCT in good range.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Just a quick one not related to anything steroid/PEDS, sorry to bother you again!
> 
> An elderly family friend fell a while back and cut her leg, at first it bruised and then recently a cut opened up, it has been heavily bandaged for a while 4-5 weeks now to try and speed up healing and she was also on penicillin & anti biotics for a few weeks, neither of which have really helped. A swab was taken last week to check if there is any infection or abnormality causing it to not heal but it is leaking clear fluid quite considerably.
> 
> We're worried about it and have ZERO trust in the doctors, who have already let it become pretty much infected by the look of things! There are no real endocrinology services around here either to assist.
> 
> Just wondered if you can suggest any supplementation or similar which may assist? I appreciate without all the specifics you can only advise so much but any help is much appreciated.


 Most elderly people with very slow or non-healing wounds will see an improvement with increasing protein intake and supplementing zinc+vitamin C.

I've used this stack on multiple patient's with success. It's proven by research.

Elderly people usually have poor nutrition/protein intake, low growth hormone/sex steroid levels and poor circulation. All of these contribute to poor wound healing and increased risk of infection.

What is her medical history? Any diabetes, hypothyroidism? Is she bedbound or able to walk?

Just like with bodybuilding, you need to provide the body with the resources to build and heal tissue. Protein/zinc/vitamin C has always worked in my patients with slow or non healing wounds.

You can run some pubmed articles if you want to learn more about it. Just google pubmed protein, zinc or vitamin c and wound healing.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Most elderly people with very slow or non-healing wounds will see an improvement with increasing protein intake and supplementing zinc+vitamin C.
> 
> I've used this stack on multiple patient's with success. It's proven by research.
> 
> Elderly people usually have poor nutrition/protein intake, low growth hormone/sex steroid levels and poor circulation. All of these contribute to poor wound healing and increased risk of infection.
> 
> What is her medical history? Any diabetes, hypothyroidism? Is she bedbound or able to walk?
> 
> Just like with bodybuilding, you need to provide the body with the resources to build and heal tissue. Protein/zinc/vitamin C has always worked in my patients with slow or non healing wounds.
> 
> You can run some pubmed articles if you want to learn more about it. Just google pubmed protein, zinc or vitamin c and wound healing.


 That's a good start, I will get hold of some Zinc & Vitamin C for her - what sort of dosages would you suggest in these circumstances or would it best to stick with the recommended amounts?

Food wise she is perfectly fine, eating as normal 4 meals per day with no appetite issues etc. getting vegetables and fruit in good amounts.

Medical history, said fall caused a crack of the pelvic bone which didn't lead to surgery or complete immobilisation, so she is able to walk around the house assisted with a frame (does this to make meals and every now and then to stretch her legs etc.) other than that usually just sat in a chair watching TV etc. initially with raised legs which seemed to make things worse, so she now has these flat on the floor. Normal weight and her only medical issue - all be it quite a serious one is lupus, although this doesn't seem to have effected her of flared up since the fall.

Thanks EC, really do appreciate your help!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Supplements for what? The basics would be a good multivitamin, Vitamin D (with a fatty meal/5,000 IU) if you don't get lots of sunlight year round.


 Sorry should have been more specific - I mean supplements for health on heavy steroid cycles.

If one comes off a blast focusing and mass, and now starts cruising, will it be okay to immediatly start cutting or should you wait a bit before start cutting?

How little test can be used to maintain mass when cutting down to 10%?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Sorry should have been more specific - I mean supplements for health on heavy steroid cycles.
> 
> If one comes off a blast focusing and mass, and now starts cruising, will it be okay to immediatly start cutting or should you wait a bit before start cutting?
> 
> How little test can be used to maintain mass when cutting down to 10%?


 The best supplement is cardio and keeping your vitals in good range. You don't want BP over 140/90 and keep hematocrit under 53%.

No supplement is as potent as cardiovascular exercise, it is that powerful.

Some good antioxidant/anti-inflammatory supplements are Meriva Curcumin and Pycnogenol/pine bark extract.

Some people think you should "rest" with your new mass to help maintain. I have gone straight to cutting with zero issues.

300 mg testosterone is enough for most people to maintain on a cut, adding some winstrol or superdrol will help further by increasing endurance/strength and muscle retention further. They will also dry you out and increase vascularity.

How much AAS you need to cut will depend on how much muscle you are carrying, your genetics, and how much AAS you used to bulk.

Superdrol can decrease appetite which can help you cut.

Cutting under 10% is when muscle and strength get harder to maintain, so you will be fine.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> That's a good start, I will get hold of some Zinc & Vitamin C for her - what sort of dosages would you suggest in these circumstances or would it best to stick with the recommended amounts?
> 
> Food wise she is perfectly fine, eating as normal 4 meals per day with no appetite issues etc. getting vegetables and fruit in good amounts.
> 
> Medical history, said fall caused a crack of the pelvic bone which didn't lead to surgery or complete immobilisation, so she is able to walk around the house assisted with a frame (does this to make meals and every now and then to stretch her legs etc.) other than that usually just sat in a chair watching TV etc. initially with raised legs which seemed to make things worse, so she now has these flat on the floor. Normal weight and her only medical issue - all be it quite a serious one is lupus, although this doesn't seem to have effected her of flared up since the fall.
> 
> Thanks EC, really do appreciate your help!


 30-50 mg zinc and 500-1000 mg vitamin C, take both with food. Most elderly people are deficient in both and they are important for wound healing and repair.

You can add protein shakes in the form of whey or pea protein.

How much meat is she eating? Vegetables and fruits are extremely overrated for health.


----------



## leechild4

@ElChapo coming to the end of a semi successful bulk. looking to transition into a cruising phase and want to provide some support to my fertility. would a TRT dose (whats a nice sensible dose?) plus 1500IIU a week of HCG over the next three months be a good way to approach this. I think i read that you wouldn't add clomid to any TRT doses and would save that for when you were fully coming off all AAS. is that right? thanks.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> 30-50 mg zinc and 500-1000 mg vitamin C, take both with food. Most elderly people are deficient in both and they are important for wound healing and repair.
> 
> You can add protein shakes in the form of whey or pea protein.
> 
> How much meat is she eating? Vegetables and fruits are extremely overrated for health.


 I will get on the case straight away with the Vit C and Zinc.

She eats quite a lot of nuts, meat wise two servings per day usually chicken fish or mince with the occasional additional of things such as corned beef and ham in sandwiches etc.


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo a question about food. I have ground flaxseed/linseed daily as it's nice & for health benefits.

Today, a number of UK newspapers have raised the issue of amygdalin which can produce cyanide as it degrades. This is found in ground flaxseed. My Mum mentioned it as she read it. She is concerned as my Dad eats it daily as well (as suggested by me).

How harmful is daily (2-3 tblsp) helping of ground flaxseed & how much truth is in this? Thanks


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Do not go off testosterone unless you can recover your levels to at least average (very unlikely)
> 
> Quitting testosterone for the sake of it is something ive been seeing a lot of lately. Low testosterone is a major risk factor for heart disease, depression, diabetes, dementia, osteoperosis, and a ton of other issue. Testosterone is very good for your body in the right dosage.
> 
> If you want to maintain, you can do a high TRT dose with some GH.
> 
> 200 mg test+3 IU GH should the the job, add cardio, keep your BP and HCT in good range.


 Thanks for the advice.

The doctos obviously told me to come off them completely, I explained to him that my natural testosterone won't recover however he said in young enough so it will come back. Doctors aren't very clued up on testosterone.

Would Masteron be safe? And what about Anavar + Winstrol?

Mate you sure the HGH is safe to take? As last time I took it, it did make my heart rate strange (told you this before) ...

What do you think caused my heart to do the PSVT? It's pretty scary...


----------



## ElChapo

leechild4 said:


> @ElChapo coming to the end of a semi successful bulk. looking to transition into a cruising phase and want to provide some support to my fertility. would a TRT dose (whats a nice sensible dose?) plus 1500IIU a week of HCG over the next three months be a good way to approach this. I think i read that you wouldn't add clomid to any TRT doses and would save that for when you were fully coming off all AAS. is that right? thanks.


 Yes, you want to run HCG whenever you take any AAS if you want to maximize the chances of staying fertile. 1,000-1,500 is a good dose.

Yes, clomid will work when you are not on any AAS or testosterone. It will stimulate your natural LH/FSH which will increase your natural testosterone levels.

HCG will mimick LH/FSH while you take AAS/Testosterone, which will keep you producing sperm and maximize fertility and your chances of recovery.

When you come off and want to conceive, you will run 50-100 mg clomid daily until conception. Make sure to time intercourse with your partner's fertility window during ovulation.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> The best supplement is cardio and keeping your vitals in good range. You don't want BP over 140/90 and keep hematocrit under 53%.
> 
> No supplement is as potent as cardiovascular exercise, it is that powerful.
> 
> Some good antioxidant/anti-inflammatory supplements are Meriva Curcumin and Pycnogenol/pine bark extract.
> 
> Some people think you should "rest" with your new mass to help maintain. I have gone straight to cutting with zero issues.
> 
> 300 mg testosterone is enough for most people to maintain on a cut, adding some winstrol or superdrol will help further by increasing endurance/strength and muscle retention further. They will also dry you out and increase vascularity.
> 
> How much AAS you need to cut will depend on how much muscle you are carrying, your genetics, and how much AAS you used to bulk.
> 
> Superdrol can decrease appetite which can help you cut.
> 
> Cutting under 10% is when muscle and strength get harder to maintain, so you will be fine.


 How much cardio do you recommend, I have no clue at all how much to do. Atm im doing almost nothing, but it sounds like it SHOULD be done at all times?


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> I will get on the case straight away with the Vit C and Zinc.
> 
> She eats quite a lot of nuts, meat wise two servings per day usually chicken fish or mince with the occasional additional of things such as corned beef and ham in sandwiches etc.


 Sounds good, the Vitamin C and Zinc should help.

A whey or pea protein supplement wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> @ElChapo a question about food. I have ground flaxseed/linseed daily as it's nice & for health benefits.
> 
> Today, a number of UK newspapers have raised the issue of amygdalin which can produce cyanide as it degrades. This is found in ground flaxseed. My Mum mentioned it as she read it. She is concerned as my Dad eats it daily as well (as suggested by me).
> 
> How harmful is daily (2-3 tblsp) helping of ground flaxseed & how much truth is in this? Thanks


 I would not worry about it, there's always some new bullshit on the news about why everything is bad and will kill you. Just tune it out.

People have been taking flaxseed for decades without an issue. I would not worry at all.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> The doctos obviously told me to come off them completely, I explained to him that my natural testosterone won't recover however he said in young enough so it will come back. Doctors aren't very clued up on testosterone.
> 
> Mate you sure the HGH is safe to take? As last time I took it, it did make my heart rate strange (told you this before) ...
> 
> What do you think caused my heart to do the PSVT? It's pretty scary...


 They don't know s**t with all due respect to them. It's not completely their fault though.

Yes, you would want to stay in the physiological range, no more than 3 IU, and try a different brand this time. I also get increased heart rate and BP at 5 IU and higher myself. It seems to possibly be related to water retention. HGH increases sodium retention. The opposite of a water diuretic that makes you drop water and lower BP/Heart rate would do.

I've found that running GH with testosterone decreases the amount needed to get the "pumped/3D look". Running low dose GH with 150 mg testosterone per week makes me look like i'm on +300 mg per week. This is due to the increase in nitrogen retention from GH, a very well documented effect and the same thing that AAS dose at higher doses.

The PSVT thing seems to be kind of a mystery in the health community, i'm not extremely well-versed in cardiovascular science, just the basics & fundamentals really.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> How much cardio do you recommend, I have no clue at all how much to do. Atm im doing almost nothing, but it sounds like it SHOULD be done at all times?


 An absolute minimum of x 2 per week for at least 20 minutes. Some people prefer HIIT, others like LISS. Walking is okay, but you won't get the same health benefits as getting your heart rate up.

My go-to recommendation is x 3-6 per week, 20-30 minutes with target heart rate of 140-170 BPM. It can be any activity like boxing/mma, jogging, swimming, etc. It can be very flexible, just find a routine that works for you. I never liked running but when i added music and started feeling the benefits, i've been hooked since. The fat loss/calories burned is just a bonus for me now.

Personally, i do Monday-Friday, 20 minutes jog and 10 minute walk. I find that it helps recovery in the gym between sets and training days, increases muscle endurance and pump. Mentally and physically it has a great effect on well-being and concentration/memory for me.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> An absolute minimum of x 2 per week for at least 20 minutes. Some people prefer HIIT, others like LISS. Walking is okay, but you won't get the same health benefits as getting your heart rate up.
> 
> My go-to recommendation is x 3-6 per week, 20-30 minutes with target heart rate of 140-170 BPM. It can be any activity like boxing/mma, jogging, swimming, etc. It can be very flexible, just find a routine that works for you. I never liked running but when i added music and started feeling the benefits, i've been hooked since. The fat loss/calories burned is just a bonus for me now.
> 
> Personally, i do Monday-Friday, 20 minutes jog and 10 minute walk. I find that it helps recovery in the gym between sets and training days, increases muscle endurance and pump. Mentally and physically it has a great effect on well-being and concentration/memory for me.


 Thank you, its very hard to get started tho, but I guess it will have great benifits to high rep squats which atm is pain as its tough to keep tight for too long


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> They don't know s**t with all due respect to them. It's not completely their fault though.
> 
> Yes, you would want to stay in the physiological range, no more than 3 IU, and try a different brand this time. I also get increased heart rate and BP at 5 IU and higher myself. It seems to possibly be related to water retention. HGH increases sodium retention. The opposite of a water diuretic that makes you drop water and lower BP/Heart rate would do.
> 
> I've found that running GH with testosterone decreases the amount needed to get the "pumped/3D look". Running low dose GH with 150 mg testosterone per week makes me look like i'm on +300 mg per week. This is due to the increase in nitrogen retention from GH, a very well documented effect and the same thing that AAS dose at higher doses.
> 
> The PSVT thing seems to be kind of a mystery in the health community, i'm not extremely well-versed in cardiovascular science, just the basics & fundamentals really.


 I will do 200mg Test per week with 2iu GH Monday-Friday to start with then increase later if I want. I did like how I looked last time I took HGH. Very full look.

Is Masteron safe? What about Anavar and Winstrol?

Its very annoying. Would love to know what it was. I'm just scared to train really hard in the gym now lol.

if BP and hemocrit etc is in range is it possible to have a heart attack? Like just out of the blue?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, its very hard to get started tho, but I guess it will have great benifits to high rep squats which atm is pain as its tough to keep tight for too long


 It can be annoying to start, but once you make it part of your routine/habits like brushing your teeth/showering/etc, it will be pretty easy for you.

There is no better supplement for health and well-being, none even comes close to exercise for depression, cardiovascular health, disease prevention (diabetes/dementia/etc).


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I will do 200mg Test per week with 2iu GH Monday-Friday to start with then increase later if I want. I did like how I looked last time I took HGH. Very full look.
> 
> Is Masteron safe? What about Anavar and Winstrol?
> 
> Its very annoying. Would love to know what it was. I'm just scared to train really hard in the gym now lol.
> 
> if BP and hemocrit etc is in range is it possible to have a heart attack? Like just out of the blue?


 Yeah, you want to find the absolute minimum that you need. 150-200 mg would be ideal, making sure you keep BP/HCT within range and do cardiovascular exercise.

Like i said, plain testosterone at HRT doses is the only thing i would feel comfortable running. AAS can mess with heart rhythm, especially at higher doses and more exotic compounds. At most masteron would slightly dry you out and increase pumped look a tiny bit. Test+GH will have a similar effect.

Nobody really knows, did you get it while you were taking AAS/when you were completely off/ or during a cruise?

The more common cause of heart attacks is usually a blood clot or piece of plaque blocking the heart's circulation. You can minimize the risk of clotting by keeping the hematocrit in range. You can minimized plaque formation by keeping BP/HCT in range. You will find that most fit and healthy people will never have a heart attack. It's usually due to sedentary lifestyle and poor dietary habits/high body fat/genetics/uncontrolled hypertension etc.

Cardiovascular exercise will strongly decrease the risk of heart attack, blood clotting, and plaque formation. ( Add stroke to that list )


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It can be annoying to start, but once you make it part of your routine/habits like brushing your teeth/showering/etc, it will be pretty easy for you.
> 
> There is no better supplement for health and well-being, none even comes close to exercise for depression, cardiovascular health, disease prevention (diabetes/dementia/etc).


 Hopefully hehe, will 30 min walk 5 times a week be sufficient, or is higher intensity needed for full benifits, so better of running 10min 5 times a week?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hopefully hehe, will 30 min walk 5 times a week be sufficient, or is higher intensity needed for full benifits, so better of running 10min 5 times a week?


 You could do a 15 minute run and walk the rest. You want to push your heart rate to the 140-160 BPM range or you won't get the same benefits.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, you want to find the absolute minimum that you need. 150-200 mg would be ideal, making sure you keep BP/HCT within range and do cardiovascular exercise.
> 
> Like i said, plain testosterone at HRT doses is the only thing i would feel comfortable running. AAS can mess with heart rhythm, especially at higher doses and more exotic compounds. At most masteron would slightly dry you out and increase pumped look a tiny bit. Test+GH will have a similar effect.
> 
> Nobody really knows, did you get it while you were taking AAS/when you were completely off/ or during a cruise?
> 
> The more common cause of heart attacks is usually a blood clot or piece of plaque blocking the heart's circulation. You can minimize the risk of clotting by keeping the hematocrit in range. You can minimized plaque formation by keeping BP/HCT in range. You will find that most fit and healthy people will never have a heart attack. It's usually due to sedentary lifestyle and poor dietary habits/high body fat/genetics/uncontrolled hypertension etc.
> 
> Cardiovascular exercise will strongly decrease the risk of heart attack, blood clotting, and plaque formation. ( Add stroke to that list )


 I shall just stick to test & HGH at low doses then.

Both times I had it I was only running 300 Test, 400mg Mast, 50 Var, 50 Winstrol.

Both times happened whilst I was playing sports, football and cricket.

I will do cardio everyday and I have some health supplements I take also


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I shall just stick to test & HGH at low doses then.
> 
> Both times I had it I was only running 300 Test, 400mg Mast, 50 Var, 50 Winstrol.
> 
> Both times happened whilst I was playing sports, football and cricket.
> 
> I will do cardio everyday and I have some health supplements I take also


 That's probably what caused it. Probably genetics+AAS.

You should be fine.


----------



## PSevens2017

ElChapo said:


> I would not worry about it, there's always some new bullshit on the news about why everything is bad and will kill you. Just tune it out.
> 
> People have been taking flaxseed for decades without an issue. I would not worry at all.


 I did tell my Mum not to take notice of anything the Daily Mail says (she buys this newspaper) but as my Dad is 76 and having a few minor health issues at the moment, she is a bit concerned. I've told her if she's overly bothered, then my Dad can simply stop using flaxseed. Thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> I did tell my Mum not to take notice of anything the Daily Mail says (she buys this newspaper) but as my Dad is 76 and having a few minor health issues at the moment, she is a bit concerned. I've told her if she's overly bothered, then my Dad can simply stop using flaxseed. Thanks mate


 Anytime brother. It's just clickbait and to sell papers. They've been doing this forever now with anything you can think of.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> A healthy male will already have optimal E2, adding a SERM is going to disrupt the balance.
> 
> A postmenopausal female will have very low E2, so adding some will help them.
> 
> We don't know if can cause cognitive problems like nolvadex, there is not enough research, i just know its likely not smart to take it year round indefinitely because of that fact.
> 
> Raloxifene is does not just act as an estrogen, it is also am estrogen blocker depending on the site. It acts as an estrogen in bone and liver. (Its given to people to increase bone density) but it acts as an estrogen blocker in the mammary glands, that's why it works to reverse gynecomastia.
> 
> What is your natural testosterone/E2 Level off of everything? If you are running tbol only you might be supressing your natural testosterone and DHT which can increase risk of gyno, also, its possible the tbol is dbol. This is why people dont recommend oral only cycles.


 I'm on test 250mg / week , tbol was only 12.5 mg for free test (lower shbg) which works perfectly .

I got gyno 3 years ago from bad E2 management , since a year I manage it perfectly by taking aromasin ED (6.25mg) , stable E2 and test levels with high free test = perfect.

but still , gyno grows a little by little , and it's quite annoying and painful when ur girlfriend wants to lay on your chest , it gives a sharp pain.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

What would you say the maximum water intake should be on a daily basis?

Currently on a cruise 200mg test e and 0.25 adex, got an active job as I work in construction and I train 4 days a week and my water intake usually is 3 litres to 4 litres daily. Would you say this is too much? Is there any difference from when I blast, my blasts are test e 600mg, anavar and 0.5 adex weekly?

Thank you.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I'm on test 250mg / week , tbol was only 12.5 mg for free test (lower shbg) which works perfectly .
> 
> I got gyno 3 years ago from bad E2 management , since a year I manage it perfectly by taking aromasin ED (6.25mg) , stable E2 and test levels with high free test = perfect.
> 
> but still , gyno grows a little by little , and it's quite annoying and painful when ur girlfriend wants to lay on your chest , it gives a sharp pain.


 What's your E2 level? Sometimes high IGF-1 levels can cause gyno. HGH flares mine up a tiny bit but not to a noticeable extent.

I know what you mean about the pain and tenderness. In your situation i would look into the surgery, running SERMs year round is not healthy.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> What's your E2 level? Sometimes high IGF-1 levels can cause gyno. HGH flares mine up a tiny bit but not to a noticeable extent.
> 
> I know what you mean about the pain and tenderness. In your situation i would look into the surgery, running SERMs year round is not healthy.


 I don't remember my E2 levels but it was in range , and I feel good/good libido , good strength etc. I had low and high E2 for years , happy to manage it perfectly now.

I just have to cut that gyno and I'd be so much happier.. but it's price is a lot for me


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo

What are your thoughts on injecting test prop Subq with a 26g 5/8"needle?

for TRT i want to use test prop ED for more stable levels rather than once a week with enanthate.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I don't remember my E2 levels but it was in range , and I feel good/good libido , good strength etc. I had low and high E2 for years , happy to manage it perfectly now.
> 
> I just have to cut that gyno and I'd be so much happier.. but it's price is a lot for me


 It will be a good investment, you will save money on ralox/nolvadex and your health.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are your thoughts on injecting test prop Subq with a 26g 5/8"needle?
> 
> for TRT i want to use test prop ED for more stable levels rather than once a week with enanthate.


 I would use a 29-31 gauge needle and 1/2 inch. 29-31 gauge is completely painless.

1/2 is better than 5/8 in my experience because it has a much higher rate of getting all the oil into the muscle and not leaking subq. Test prop with subq leak can lead to bad pip and inflammation.

If you are higher body fat than 13%, i would suggest 1 inch unless you are lean enough in the quads/delts to get the 1/2 inch fully into the muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> What would you say the maximum water intake should be on a daily basis?
> 
> Currently on a cruise 200mg test e and 0.25 adex, got an active job as I work in construction and I train 4 days a week and my water intake usually is 3 litres to 4 litres daily. Would you say this is too much? Is there any difference from when I blast, my blasts are test e 600mg, anavar and 0.5 adex weekly?
> 
> Thank you.


 As much as you need for urine to be very light or clear. Once your urine is clear all day, you are fully hydrated. Half a gallon to one gallon (2-4 liters) is more than enough for most people. Drinking too much water can flush out electrolytes in your body. It's better to drink too much than not enough, and being hydrated improves mental and physical performance.

3-4 liters sound about right, that's a good amount for your activity levels.

Water intake should be the same blast/cruise/natural, It doesn't make a difference.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> As much as you need for urine to be very light or clear. Once your urine is clear all day, you are fully hydrated. Half a gallon to one gallon (2-4 liters) is more than enough for most people. Drinking too much water can flush out electrolytes in your body. It's better to drink too much than not enough, and being hydrated improves mental and physical performance.
> 
> 3-4 liters sound about right, that's a good amount for your activity levels.
> 
> Water intake should be the same blast/cruise/natural, It doesn't make a difference.


 Brilliant stuff, thank you. As I drink a coffee in the mornings and water/squash throughout the day/evenings, the water and squash covers 2-4litres that's without coffee and sometimes a can of diet coke daily? Or should I include this in my daily water intake?

Thanks again!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You could do a 15 minute run and walk the rest. You want to push your heart rate to the 140-160 BPM range or you won't get the same benefits.


 Okay will do!

Will tren or anadrol show on bloodtests if getting test+estro checked?

How bad will it be on lipids, liver, kidney?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant stuff, thank you. As I drink a coffee in the mornings and water/squash throughout the day/evenings, the water and squash covers 2-4litres that's without coffee and sometimes a can of diet coke daily? Or should I include this in my daily water intake?
> 
> Thanks again!


 The coffee and coke can be included, as well as milk/tea/etc. Anything that is liquid. If your urine is very light yellow or clear, then you are hydrated.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay will do!
> 
> Will tren or anadrol show on bloodtests if getting test+estro checked?
> 
> How bad will it be on lipids, liver, kidney?


 Anadrol might pop as testosterone if you do ECLIA instead of LC/MS, but i'm not sure.

Trenbolone will show up as E2 if you do ECLIA. If you do LC/MS, then the E2 test will be accurate even if you are taking tren.

"How bad" is relative to time on, dosage, genetics, and concurrent drug/alcohol use.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> I would use a 29-31 gauge needle and 1/2 inch. 29-31 gauge is completely painless.
> 
> 1/2 is better than 5/8 in my experience because it has a much higher rate of getting all the oil into the muscle and not leaking subq. Test prop with subq leak can lead to bad pip and inflammation.
> 
> If you are higher body fat than 13%, i would suggest 1 inch unless you are lean enough in the quads/delts to get the 1/2 inch fully into the muscle.


 But i am trying to jab it suq instead of the into the muscle - is this not a good idea?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> But i am trying to jab it suq instead of the into the muscle - is this not a good idea?


 Test prop and SQ do not go well together. You have a high risk of PIP/inflammation.

Have you started injecting SubQ test prop yet?


----------



## Playtowin

Hey man. Thanks in advance for your amazing knowledge.

Calf injections, what's your thoughts. They seem a great area. Lots of room and easy to hit. I did 0.5ml of Nexus Inject Dbol. Painless until the next day. Couldn't walk for 2 days haha.

Virgin musles I guess. My calf's are a weak point and I'm using SG Inject Superdrol 10mg (0.5ml) daily. Is it safe to hit the calves 2 times a week and could this lead to more growth with it being a spot injection.

Im hitting calves 3 times a week. 24 sets total, 2 exercises (Seated Raised and Leg Press Calf Press). Hoping to add some size.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Hey man. Thanks in advance for your amazing knowledge.
> 
> Calf injections, what's your thoughts. They seem a great area. Lots of room and easy to hit. I did 0.5ml of Nexus Inject Dbol. Painless until the next day. Couldn't walk for 2 days haha.
> 
> Virgin musles I guess. My calf's are a weak point and I'm using SG Inject Superdrol 10mg (0.5ml) daily. Is it safe to hit the calves 2 times a week and could this lead to more growth with it being a spot injection.
> 
> Im hitting calves 3 times a week. 24 sets total, 2 exercises (Seated Raised and Leg Press Calf Press). Hoping to add some size.


 Not something i would recommend to beginners-intermediate users. If you are taking high doses and injecting daily, it could help to use calves, but i would recommend pecs before the calves. They are more easy to reach and you use them less often which can reduce the risk of PIP. The deltoid also has three heads and there is a lot of space in the upper quads for multiple injections, as well as ventrogluteal and dorsogluteal sites.

You want to hit your calves with a lot of volume, it's actually two muscles, soleus and gastrocnemius. Seated calf raises with a 2 second hold at the top will train the gastrocnemius, the main muscle you want to hypertropy.

Frequent injections CAN lead to localize growth, i have seen this myself. Not sure if it's actually muscle, scar tissue or what though. Make sure that you are hitting a caloric surplus. If you have long legs, it's harder to fill them out, so you will have to work for it.


----------



## Playtowin

Legend. What's the other best calf exercise?

I struggle with standing plate calf raises on a smith and tbh, it's the same as the plate seated calf raise. That's the only machine we have, so I do as i said, calf pushes on the leg press. Seems to be diffenent as I can do much more weight. Hopefully those 2 are enoguh


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Legend. What's the other best calf exercise?
> 
> I struggle with standing plate calf raises on a smith and tbh, it's the same as the plate seated calf raise. That's the only machine we have, so I do as i said, calf pushes on the leg press. Seems to be diffenent as I can do much more weight. Hopefully those 2 are enoguh


 It's the same movement, you would just waste time throwing in a bunch of different exercises. Focus on progressive overload with perfect form and ROM. Keep adding weight, but keep it high volume and hold it at the top. You need to be adding weight and reps if you want to make the muscle grow.

Those 2 are more than enough, focus on what matters; Caloric surplus+progressive overload+Form (ROM/hold for 2 secs at top)


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

What's your thoughts on fasting for cutting?

I'm starting to fast to cut during my cruise, I'm currently fasting 16hours and eating for 8 hours so fasting from 8pm untill 12pm then eating from 12pm (afternoon) to 8pm. Is this the right protocol for droppong body fat or is the fast window to long?

Also trying to preserve muscle from my blast so would this be the wrong approach? I'm still getting my deficit macros in this 8 hour window.

Is it best to go back to spreading meals out throught the day sticking to the macros in deficit or is the fasting routine suitable, goal is to drop body fat and preserve muscle.

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> What's your thoughts on fasting for cutting?
> 
> I'm starting to fast to cut during my cruise, I'm currently fasting 16hours and eating for 8 hours so fasting from 8pm untill 12pm then eating from 12pm (afternoon) to 8pm. Is this the right protocol for droppong body fat or is the fast window to long?
> 
> Also trying to preserve muscle from my blast so would this be the wrong approach? I'm still getting my deficit macros in this 8 hour window.
> 
> Is it best to go back to spreading meals out throught the day sticking to the macros in deficit or is the fasting routine suitable, goal is to drop body fat and preserve muscle.
> 
> Thanks.


 Dropping body fat is 100% due to calorie deficit. Fasting helps a lot of people because your meals are bigger and more satisfying, but there isn't any secret fat loss mechanism behind it. I use it myself for cutting and maintenance. It works great for me. There's no need to be so strict with the eating window, just skip breakfast, at between around 11 AM- 2 PM, and then eat your dinner sometime later in the day.

You won't lose muscle as long as you keep training intensity the same and eat enough protein/carbs. If you were benching 225 lbs for 12 reps after your bulk, you want to hit and maintain that weight and reps to maintain the muscle. If you lose a significant amount of weight or reps, this is a sign of muscle loss.

No, i strongly prefer intermittent fasting for cutting. It helps with diet adherence thanks to the bigger, tastier meals but there is no magic behind it for fat loss.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Dropping body fat is 100% due to calorie deficit. Fasting helps a lot of people because your meals are bigger and more satisfying, but there isn't any secret fat loss mechanism behind it. I use it myself for cutting and maintenance. It works great for me. There's no need to be so strict with the eating window, just skip breakfast, at between around 11 AM- 2 PM, and then eat your dinner sometime later in the day.
> 
> You won't lose muscle as long as you keep training intensity the same and eat enough protein/carbs. If you were benching 225 lbs for 12 reps after your bulk, you want to hit and maintain that weight and reps to maintain the muscle. If you lose a significant amount of weight or reps, this is a sign of muscle loss.
> 
> No, i strongly prefer intermittent fasting for cutting. It helps with diet adherence thanks to the bigger, tastier meals but there is no magic behind it for fat loss.


 Brilliant thank you, that's what I do with my food, my first meal of the day is high protein/carbs/cals after the fast, then few hours after I eat some oats with semi skimmed milk before the gym for carbs and I keep my biggest meal which is the highest in protein, carbs and cals for after I train and have protein shakes and fruit in between meals, plus the meals seem to fill me more aswell when fasting.

Thank you again for your help again mate!


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant thank you, that's what I do with my food, my first meal of the day is high protein/carbs/cals after the fast, then few hours after I eat some oats with semi skimmed milk before the gym for carbs and I keep my biggest meal which is the highest in protein, carbs and cals for after I train and have protein shakes and fruit in between meals, plus the meals seem to fill me more aswell when fasting.
> 
> Thank you again for your help again mate!


 Anytime man, Yeah, fasting helps you learn to control hunger very well and get in tune with your body. There's also some health benefits, so that's a bonus as well.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Anadrol might pop as testosterone if you do ECLIA instead of LC/MS, but i'm not sure.
> 
> Trenbolone will show up as E2 if you do ECLIA. If you do LC/MS, then the E2 test will be accurate even if you are taking tren.
> 
> "How bad" is relative to time on, dosage, genetics, and concurrent drug/alcohol use.


 okay thank you.

Man I must tell you how much I appreciate you taking your time, honestly Im sure I could learn a lot by just reading whole thread through lol.

What cycle length do you prefer? Some people do very long 20week + cycles, usually its the 12week that I hear of, but even thought of doing small 8 week blasts with smaller cruising time?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> okay thank you.
> 
> Man I must tell you how much I appreciate you taking your time, honestly Im sure I could learn a lot by just reading whole thread through lol.
> 
> What cycle length do you prefer? Some people do very long 20week + cycles, usually its the 12week that I hear of, but even thought of doing small 8 week blasts with smaller cruising time?


 That depends on your goals and if using long or short esters. I prefer short esters due to few things. They kick in much faster, less water retention, and more potent in my experience.

12-16 weeks is good, with an oral ran for the entire length of the cycle. It depends on your goals. Very long cycles can work very well as you build up momentum and gene expression from the compounds, this will also increase the risk of fertility/low testosterone once you come off, so again, it's goal/context dependent.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Test prop and SQ do not go well together. You have a high risk of PIP/inflammation.
> 
> Have you started injecting SubQ test prop yet?


 Did 1 jab yesterday and its slightly sore. I'm going to switch to Test Enenthate twice per week subq instead.

Subq is much more convenient for me, Is there any negatives to doing it subq instead of IM?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Did 1 jab yesterday and its slightly sore. I'm going to switch to Test Enenthate twice per week subq instead.
> 
> Subq is much more convenient for me, Is there any negatives to doing it subq instead of IM?


 I'm telling you man, SQ is an overrated fad right now. There is nothing special at all about it. It's just a fad.

IM is the optimal route of administration for medication.

IM is just as easy as SQ with less risk of PIP. Test prop is way better as most people have tried both can attest to. Less water retention, better energy/mood, etc.

If you are pinning IM with a 29-31 gauge 1/2 needle, it will be just as painless as SQ.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I'm telling you man, SQ is an overrated fad right now. There is nothing special at all about it. It's just a fad.
> 
> IM is the optimal route of administration for medication.
> 
> IM is just as easy as SQ with less risk of PIP. Test prop is way better as most people have tried both can attest to. Less water retention, better energy/mood, etc.
> 
> If you are pinning IM with a 29-31 gauge 1/2 needle, it will be just as painless as SQ.


 Would you also pin HGH IM?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Would you also pin HGH IM?


 Without a doubt, most studies show better absorption.

The theory is that while the GH is sitting in the SQ layer waiting to be absorbed, there is breakdown of the molecule in that time frame.

It's not a huge deal though and both routes work fine. You are going to get the strongest & fastest absorption of any compound by injecting IM to the deltoids.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> I'm telling you man, SQ is an overrated fad right now. There is nothing special at all about it. It's just a fad.
> 
> IM is the optimal route of administration for medication.
> 
> IM is just as easy as SQ with less risk of PIP. Test prop is way better as most people have tried both can attest to. Less water retention, better energy/mood, etc.
> 
> If you are pinning IM with a 29-31 gauge 1/2 needle, it will be just as painless as SQ.


 Thanks for the advice - only problem is i'm not very lean at the moment so 1/2 inch would be too small to get right into the muscle right? Or would i be fine doing IM with a 29g 1/2 inch at around 15-16%bf?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Thanks for the advice - only problem is i'm not very lean at the moment so 1/2 inch would be too small to get right into the muscle right? Or would i be fine doing IM with a 29g 1/2 inch at around 15-16%bf?


 Depends on the muscle, skin thickness, etc. Some people have very lean delts or quads at high body fat.


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo is it only free/bio available test that builds muscle? Does free test do anything else? What does the test that's bound to shbg actually do?

also do you see a noticeable difference between results from doing say 4iu gh every day compared to 8iu eod?

thanks in advance, awesome thread btw :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo is it only free/bio available test that builds muscle? Does free test do anything else? What does the test that's bound to shbg actually do?
> 
> also do you see a noticeable difference between results from doing say 4iu gh every day compared to 8iu eod?
> 
> thanks in advance, awesome thread btw :thumb


 Is Protein bound testosterone biologically active? Yes, the Free and Albumin bound testosterone is biologically active. The SHBG bound portion is not. SHBG/Albumin bound testosterone AKA total testosterone acts as a reserve storage for testosterone as free testosterone is metabolized much more quickly. The free fraction is more potent at the receptor level though. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4044776)

GH without insulin has a point of diminishing returns, after 4 IU, you can experience more side effects such as water retention, lethargy, increased bp/hr and hyperglycemia (raised blood sugar).

3-4 IU is the sweet spot in my experience for anti-aging/recovery/fat loss. Higher doses are effective when you add insulin. In the 3-4 range you can experience fuller muscles even with a deficit/low carbs, increased libido/erection strength, improved memory/concentration, and better recovery and nutrient partitioning. High IGF-1 can have negative effects on the body, just google "acromegaly".

Glad to help man and great questions.


----------



## Avgs

Whats a good dose of test / anavar to run for a cut?

Is anavar bad on lipids, and how many weeks can you run it for?


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Is Protein bound testosterone biologically active? Yes, the Free and Albumin bound testosterone is biologically active. The SHBG bound portion is not. SHBG/Albumin bound testosterone AKA total testosterone acts as a reserve storage for testosterone as free testosterone is metabolized much more quickly. The free fraction is more potent at the receptor level though. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4044776)
> 
> GH without insulin has a point of diminishing returns, after 4 IU, you can experience more side effects such as water retention, lethargy, increased bp/hr and hyperglycemia (raised blood sugar).
> 
> 3-4 IU is the sweet spot in my experience for anti-aging/recovery/fat loss. Higher doses are effective when you add insulin. In the 3-4 range you can experience fuller muscles even with a deficit/low carbs, increased libido/erection strength, improved memory/concentration, and better recovery and nutrient partitioning. High IGF-1 can have negative effects on the body, just google "acromegaly".
> 
> Glad to help man and great questions.


 Thanks for that bud, appreciate the response however I think you may have misunderstood or misread the second part of my question or maybe I phrased it badly.

what I meant was, do you think there is a difference in results (fullness, growth, fat loss, sleep quality, well being) between daily GH injections or EOD injections assuming the total weekly dose is the same?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Big Ian said:


> Thanks for that bud, appreciate the response however I think you may have misunderstood or misread the second part of my question or maybe I phrased it badly.
> 
> what I meant was, do you think there is a difference in results (fullness, growth, fat loss, sleep quality, well being) between daily GH injections or EOD injections assuming the total weekly dose is the same?


 I have not tried the 8 iu three times a week approach, but I would imagine sides could get a bit nasty with 8 iu daily. Altho I guess it varies from person to person.

I think the logic behind the 8 iu 3x a week approach is to give your natural production a chance to recover/produce indegenous hgh.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

When is the best time to take nolva/ralox for shrinking gyno? Morning or evening, and is it best to take them with or without a meal?

I've read some info on the net that nolva should be taken in the .or ing as that's when test is at its peak, others say to allit the 20mg to 10mg before bed, 10mg upon waking same routine with ralox, what's the most effective method?

Thanks mate!


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo since ralox is an E2 agonist in the brain , could it give facial bloat or high E2 symptoms in the face or it's only in the brain and not 'facial' ?

It seems like my face is rounder on ralox but it could be in my head


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Whats a good dose of test / anavar to run for a cut?
> 
> Is anavar bad on lipids, and how many weeks can you run it for?


 Anavar can affect lipids and so can high testosterone levels. Your sensitivity to this effect is also genetic and the higher your baseline HDL, the better.

However, acute drops in HDL are not going to harm your body. It takes years for that possibly cause any damage to the cardiovascular system.

It depends on how much muscle you are carrying, 300 mg test per week +50-100 mg anavar daily will cover most people.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Thanks for that bud, appreciate the response however I think you may have misunderstood or misread the second part of my question or maybe I phrased it badly.
> 
> what I meant was, do you think there is a difference in results (fullness, growth, fat loss, sleep quality, well being) between daily GH injections or EOD injections assuming the total weekly dose is the same?


 A lot of people do the EOD and results are fine, studies also show it works. However, side effects are less likely with smaller daily doses. Big shots can make some people lethargic.

I prefer to mimick the natural secretion and dose once daily at bedtime, as the GH works while you sleep. You naturally secrete the biggest GH pulse 1-2 hours after falling asleep.

People who are GH deficient and those that don't dose it at bedtime do not have high levels of circulation FFA (Free fatty acids). Only those with healthy GH levels and taking it at bedtime had the normal FFA levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> When is the best time to take nolva/ralox for shrinking gyno? Morning or evening, and is it best to take them with or without a meal?
> 
> I've read some info on the net that nolva should be taken in the .or ing as that's when test is at its peak, others say to allit the 20mg to 10mg before bed, 10mg upon waking same routine with ralox, what's the most effective method?
> 
> Thanks mate!


 Timing does not matter, but fat increases the absorption of raloxifene, so you can take it with a big or fatty meal to increase absorption. It will still work with or without food.

Crazy bullshit, just take it once a day for 6-12 weeks. Ralox with fat if you want extra absorption. In the studies the effect was the same though.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo since ralox is an E2 agonist in the brain , could it give facial bloat or high E2 symptoms in the face or it's only in the brain and not 'facial' ?
> 
> It seems like my face is rounder on ralox but it could be in my head


 Water retention is a common side effect from SERMs anecdotally and from the studies.

It might be through an E2 agonist effect but it's definitely there for some people.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo what about proviron and hair loss ?

I know it's a DHT but that's crazy how much hair loss I get from it with only 25mg , only one dose dry my hair and make good hair loss the day after , for 1-2 days then it gets back to normal .

That's the reason why I don't use it anymore , I used to love proviron but losing 100 hairs in the morning just from putting ur hands on ur scalp isn't good at all.

I guess it strongly bind to the DHT receptors in the scalp ? much more than other compounds ?

that's pretty sad , 50mg of proviron ED boosted my mood and I had some small strength gain from it too (explosive training , felt more agressive like on masteron)


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo what about proviron and hair loss ?
> 
> I know it's a DHT but that's crazy how much hair loss I get from it with only 25mg , only one dose dry my hair and make good hair loss the day after , for 1-2 days then it gets back to normal .
> 
> That's the reason why I don't use it anymore , I used to love proviron but losing 100 hairs in the morning just from putting ur hands on ur scalp isn't good at all.
> 
> I guess it strongly bind to the DHT receptors in the scalp ? much more than other compounds ?
> 
> that's pretty sad , 50mg of proviron ED boosted my mood and I had some small strength gain from it too (explosive training , felt more agressive like on masteron)


 Taking DHT AAS probably raises levels much higher than natural range of DHT.

Shedding hair does not mean you are going bald. Shedding happens naturally and it can increase when hormones in the body are fluctuating ( Thyroid hormone, estrogen, etc). Not that this means you aren't balding, but don't think you are balding because you see more hairs on your hand when you comb through the hair.


----------



## shay1490

hi mate

pip is killing me, i pin my glutes twice a week, 1ml and 1.5.

I pinned monday and the pain didnt start until thursday, it just keeps getting worse and worse, i had to take 1000mg of ibuprofen, every step just burns and hurt, and sleeping is impossible

I make sure i always pin the right quadrant but sometimes its a hit and miss, even if the injection goes well, the pain just gets worse, ive missed many leg days due to it.

anythin i can take apart from ibuprofen?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Taking DHT AAS probably raises levels much higher than natural range of DHT.
> 
> Shedding hair does not mean you are going bald. Shedding happens naturally and it can increase when hormones in the body are fluctuating ( Thyroid hormone, estrogen, etc). Not that this means you aren't balding, but don't think you are balding because you see more hairs on your hand when you comb through the hair.


 yea I understand , but I'm balding clearly , not on the crown but on the forehead I get the M , it's clearly from AAS use and masteron I used 2 years ago for months.

Now that I ve stopped all DHT , raloxifene , instead of losing 100-200 hair/day , I lose like 50-75 and they are healthier/densier.

is there an injectable AAS that isnt too bad for hair health ? apart from low dose testosterone


----------



## Baka

shay1490 said:


> hi mate
> 
> pip is killing me, i pin my glutes twice a week, 1ml and 1.5.
> 
> I pinned monday and the pain didnt start until thursday, it just keeps getting worse and worse, i had to take 1000mg of ibuprofen, every step just burns and hurt, and sleeping is impossible
> 
> I make sure i always pin the right quadrant but sometimes its a hit and miss, even if the injection goes well, the pain just gets worse, ive missed many leg days due to it.
> 
> anythin i can take apart from ibuprofen?


 what do you inject and which lab? I used to have pip in my first months but now I never get it anymore


----------



## shay1490

Baka said:


> what do you inject and which lab? I used to have pip in my first months but now I never get it anymore


 nexus test


----------



## Baka

shay1490 said:


> nexus test


 I don't have pip with it or really small 2 days after injection .

Maybe heat it and inject it when the needle is 80% in you , not before or oil can spill in the skin etc


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Anavar can affect lipids and so can high testosterone levels. Your sensitivity to this effect is also genetic and the higher your baseline HDL, the better.
> 
> However, acute drops in HDL are not going to harm your body. It takes years for that possibly cause any damage to the cardiovascular system.
> 
> It depends on how much muscle you are carrying, 300 mg test per week +50-100 mg anavar daily will cover most people.


 Thanks,

Would it be safe to run var for 12weeks at 50mg? My lipids have always been at really good levels.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> hi mate
> 
> pip is killing me, i pin my glutes twice a week, 1ml and 1.5.
> 
> I pinned monday and the pain didnt start until thursday, it just keeps getting worse and worse, i had to take 1000mg of ibuprofen, every step just burns and hurt, and sleeping is impossible
> 
> I make sure i always pin the right quadrant but sometimes its a hit and miss, even if the injection goes well, the pain just gets worse, ive missed many leg days due to it.
> 
> anythin i can take apart from ibuprofen?


 Is this your first time running AAS? First time using this source or oil?

You need to figure out the reason for the PIP/pain instead of trying to hide it with pain meds.

Ibuprofen can be stacked with acetaminophen for increased pain killing effect safely, i have done this in the past for severe PIP. I got that info from a dentist study where they stacked both compounds.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> yea I understand , but I'm balding clearly , not on the crown but on the forehead I get the M , it's clearly from AAS use and masteron I used 2 years ago for months.
> 
> Now that I ve stopped all DHT , raloxifene , instead of losing 100-200 hair/day , I lose like 50-75 and they are healthier/densier.
> 
> is there an injectable AAS that isnt too bad for hair health ? apart from low dose testosterone


 NPP/Nandrolone, it converts to DHN instead of DHT, a much milder androgen.

My go-to is testosterone+Nizoral 2% daily or minimum x 3 per week. You need to be consistent and disciplined as it can take 6 months to start seeing good results, but it works. At worst, it will slow down hair loss significantly, and it can reverse some hairloss. I've seen it myself and in studies.

Like Raloxifene, people don't give nizoral enough time to work, then they say it doesn't work. Bullshit.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Would it be safe to run var for 12weeks at 50mg? My lipids have always been at really good levels.


 Anavar solo or with testosterone? What is your cycle history? Goals?

Having bad lipids for 3 months will not affect your health long-term. It's chronic use than can cause issues in people.


----------



## shay1490

ElChapo said:


> Is this your first time running AAS? First time using this source or oil?
> 
> You need to figure out the reason for the PIP/pain instead of trying to hide it with pain meds.
> 
> Ibuprofen can be stacked with acetaminophen for increased pain killing effect safely, i have done this in the past for severe PIP. I got that info from a dentist study where they stacked both compounds.


 been pinning three years, like i said, its hit and miss, i have more pip than not, I remember using SIS and having zero pip, but somehow the brands that do work always gave me some pip


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> NPP/Nandrolone, it converts to DHN instead of DHT, a much milder androgen.
> 
> My go-to is testosterone+Nizoral 2% daily or minimum x 3 per week. You need to be consistent and disciplined as it can take 6 months to start seeing good results, but it works. At worst, it will slow down hair loss significantly, and it can reverse some hairloss. I've seen it myself and in studies.
> 
> Like Raloxifene, people don't give nizoral enough time to work, then they say it doesn't work. Bullshit.


 I've got nizoral and it was working , but made my gyno worse after each application.

Many problems are linked to my gyno atm , I'm putting money on side to get it cut in December , It'd be so convenient to not have any pain or thinking about it anymore for my entire life.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo @swole troll would taking BPC-157 after gyno surgery good idea for recovery ? or it s not worth it ?

I know BPC-157 is better for joints , etc but it could help healing


----------



## swole troll

Baka said:


> @ElChapo @swole troll would taking BPC-157 after gyno surgery good idea for recovery ? or it s not worth it ?
> 
> I know BPC-157 is better for joints , etc but it could help healing


 I did not use it after my surgery and was *fully* back in the gym within 28 days no issues.

You are really over complicating this very minor surgery

You've been asking me questions about it for a year! despite mine, sparkeys and ashmos in depth logs on the whole process.

If you want to speed up what is already a very speedy recovery as far as operations go

Starting a week prior to surgery take:

3iu gh ed

2mg tb500 e3d

Bromelain 1000mg ed

Marine collagen 1200mg ed

Vitamin c 1000mg ed

That might shave off some time but given were talking such a short time frame as is (3-6 weeks) it's not worth doing imo

Just go in lean and then they won't need to perform any liposuction that will add to inflammation, recovery time and increase risk of seromas

I had my entire gland and 300cc of fat removed from each pec and was back in the gym within a week doing very light cardio, 2 weeks very light leg curls and extensions, 3 weeks full leg training and by a month just back in the gym.

Seriously mate you should be able to perform this op yourself by now with the amount of info you've pooled.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> been pinning three years, like i said, its hit and miss, i have more pip than not, I remember using SIS and having zero pip, but somehow the brands that do work always gave me some pip


 What gauge needle are you using? Are you shaking or steady? Have you ever tried ventrogluteal and delt injections?

The three main causes of PIP:

1. Shaking/trembling

2. Subq leaking

3. Overdosed or dirty oils. Max concentration per mL should be 300 mg for enanthate, 200 mg cypionate, 100 mg propionate/acetate.

You can push this higher by using guiacol, but the risk of PIP increases as the concentration goes above those numbers as the solution can crash in the muscles, the steroid hormone crystals create a lot of pain/inflammation.

Fun fact: Pharmacom was one of the first labs to incorporate guaicol into their propionate receipes to reduce PIP.

The best way to minimize PIP, Use 25-31 gauge needle. 1/2 - 1 inch. Dart in quickly, inject slowly, count to slow 20 seconds before pulling needle out.

Do not aspirate, this is an outdated and useless technique that increases the risk of PIP due to increase chances of shaking/trembling.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo @swole troll would taking BPC-157 after gyno surgery good idea for recovery ? or it s not worth it ?
> 
> I know BPC-157 is better for joints , etc but it could help healing





swole troll said:


> I did not use it after my surgery and was *fully* back in the gym within 28 days no issues.
> 
> You are really over complicating this very minor surgery
> 
> You've been asking me questions about it for a year! despite mine, sparkeys and ashmos in depth logs on the whole process.
> 
> If you want to speed up what is already a very speedy recovery as far as operations go
> 
> Starting a week prior to surgery take:
> 
> 3iu gh ed
> 
> 2mg tb500 e3d
> 
> Bromelain 1000mg ed
> 
> Marine collagen 1200mg ed
> 
> Vitamin c 1000mg ed
> 
> That might shave off some time but given were talking such a short time frame as is (3-6 weeks) it's not worth doing imo
> 
> Just go in lean and then they won't need to perform any liposuction that will add to inflammation, recovery time and increase risk of seromas
> 
> I had my entire gland and 300cc of fat removed from each pec and was back in the gym within a week doing very light cardio, 2 weeks very light leg curls and extensions, 3 weeks full leg training and by a month just back in the gym.
> 
> Seriously mate you should be able to perform this op yourself by now with the amount of info you've pooled.


 I agree with @swole troll, the surgery is very minor, his stack is good but you probably would not need it.

You can add zinc at 30-50 mg on top of the vitamin C , they have a synergistic effect on wound healing. A small caloric surplus and high protein intake can also help.


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> I did not use it after my surgery and was *fully* back in the gym within 28 days no issues.
> 
> You are really over complicating this very minor surgery
> 
> You've been asking me questions about it for a year! despite mine, sparkeys and ashmos in depth logs on the whole process.
> 
> If you want to speed up what is already a very speedy recovery as far as operations go
> 
> Starting a week prior to surgery take:
> 
> 3iu gh ed
> 
> 2mg tb500 e3d
> 
> Bromelain 1000mg ed
> 
> Marine collagen 1200mg ed
> 
> Vitamin c 1000mg ed
> 
> That might shave off some time but given were talking such a short time frame as is (3-6 weeks) it's not worth doing imo
> 
> Just go in lean and then they won't need to perform any liposuction that will add to inflammation, recovery time and increase risk of seromas
> 
> I had my entire gland and 300cc of fat removed from each pec and was back in the gym within a week doing very light cardio, 2 weeks very light leg curls and extensions, 3 weeks full leg training and by a month just back in the gym.
> 
> Seriously mate you should be able to perform this op yourself by now with the amount of info you've pooled.


 Thanks

I was asking because I have BPC-157 on hand already , it's not the time off the gym that I have in mind but how to heal properly and avoiding complications.

I 've got all informations , just need the total amount of money now and no more gyno for life.


----------



## swole troll

Baka said:


> Thanks
> 
> I was asking because I have BPC-157 on hand already , it's not the time off the gym that I have in mind but how to heal properly and avoiding complications.
> 
> I 've got all informations , just need the total amount of money now and no more gyno for life.


 Save it

The likelihood of you running into complications is slim

And even if you do it would most likely be a seroma (fluid build up between the skin and pectoral muscle) which bpc 157 won't do anything for


----------



## Dannyb0yb

swole troll said:


> I did not use it after my surgery and was *fully* back in the gym within 28 days no issues.
> 
> You are really over complicating this very minor surgery
> 
> You've been asking me questions about it for a year! despite mine, sparkeys and ashmos in depth logs on the whole process.
> 
> If you want to speed up what is already a very speedy recovery as far as operations go
> 
> Starting a week prior to surgery take:
> 
> 3iu gh ed
> 
> 2mg tb500 e3d
> 
> Bromelain 1000mg ed
> 
> Marine collagen 1200mg ed
> 
> Vitamin c 1000mg ed
> 
> That might shave off some time but given were talking such a short time frame as is (3-6 weeks) it's not worth doing imo
> 
> Just go in lean and then they won't need to perform any liposuction that will add to inflammation, recovery time and increase risk of seromas
> 
> I had my entire gland and 300cc of fat removed from each pec and was back in the gym within a week doing very light cardio, 2 weeks very light leg curls and extensions, 3 weeks full leg training and by a month just back in the gym.
> 
> Seriously mate you should be able to perform this op yourself by now with the amount of info you've pooled.


 Do you prefer marine collagen instead of bovine?


----------



## swole troll

Dannyb0yb said:


> Do you prefer marine collagen instead of bovine?


 I* believe *marine is more associated with skin repair whereas bovine more so tendon and ligament


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Timing does not matter, but fat increases the absorption of raloxifene, so you can take it with a big or fatty meal to increase absorption. It will still work with or without food.
> 
> Crazy bullshit, just take it once a day for 6-12 weeks. Ralox with fat if you want extra absorption. In the studies the effect was the same though.


 Thank you again mate. Just one more question on the topic, can I take the nolva/ralox with my other supplements at the same time with no interactions with them?

Currently taking multivitamin, citrus bergamot, omega 3, zinc, magnesium citrate, vit d, vit k2 and 2.5mg taladafil daily, the usual doses for the other supps

Thank you!


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo Winnie is my favourite compound and usually run it from 50-100mg.

Is it worth running at 25mg for 7 weeks or would you suggest that is to low of a dose?


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> Anavar solo or with testosterone? What is your cycle history? Goals?
> 
> Having bad lipids for 3 months will not affect your health long-term. It's chronic use than can cause issues in people.


 Done test, tren, mast 250/350/350 for 14weeks 5 years ago

500mg test 16 weeks 3 years ago

300mg test 20 weeks ended the start of this year

My current goals are to lose bf, im about 15%, want to drop down to 10-12%, so planning to start 300mg test + 50mg anavar about a month from now, then when i'm at my bodyfat goal up the test to 500mg for the rest of the cycle. Current weight 95-98kg, 5ft 11


----------



## Djibril

I just started reading through this topic. Still have a damnload of pages to read a lot of good information.

I have a question regarding trt.

First question about keeping fertility on trt was already answered in the first pages. Hcg at 1000iu a week.

Other question is about pinning frequency and subq injection s of test. Many people on different trt groups and forums as well as some clinics claim more stable levels with subq injections. Whats your opinion on that.

Im thinking on starting twice a week and see how i react. Depending on my e2 levels i may try 3 times a week or eod to limit any Ai use specially on a trt dose


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Thank you again mate. Just one more question on the topic, can I take the nolva/ralox with my other supplements at the same time with no interactions with them?
> 
> Currently taking multivitamin, citrus bergamot, omega 3, zinc, magnesium citrate, vit d, vit k2 and 2.5mg taladafil daily, the usual doses for the other supps
> 
> Thank you!


 Yeah, and it's best to take your supplements right after your biggest meal for best absorption as they will spend more time in the upper GI tract being absorbed.

Certain meds/supps are best on empty stomach like Levothyroxine AKA T4, and a lot of calcium can inhibit absorption of other minerals due to transporter limit. (Over 800 mg)


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo Winnie is my favourite compound and usually run it from 50-100mg.
> 
> Is it worth running at 25mg for 7 weeks or would you suggest that is to low of a dose?


 It depends on your goal. For bodybuilding, 50 mg is a solid dose and 100 mg for Advanced power lifters/bodybuilders.

25 mg is more of a sports performance dose for a boxer or soccer player.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Done test, tren, mast 250/350/350 for 14weeks 5 years ago
> 
> 500mg test 16 weeks 3 years ago
> 
> 300mg test 20 weeks ended the start of this year
> 
> My current goals are to lose bf, im about 15%, want to drop down to 10-12%, so planning to start 300mg test + 50mg anavar about a month from now, then when i'm at my bodyfat goal up the test to 500mg for the rest of the cycle. Current weight 95-98kg, 5ft 11


 You would get better results and look better on 300 mg test (especially prop) + 50 mg winstrol vs 500 mg test E. More strength, dryer/veinyer/pumped.

Test P+Winstrol will kick in very fast visually and in the gym, about 1-2 weeks versus Test E at 3-5 weeks.

Target fat loss should be 1-2 lbs per week, 1 lbs for optimal strength/muscle retention.

15% to 10% should take about 8-10 weeks depending on your deficit and consistency. You can speed this up a bit by adding a fat burner like EC stack, clen, yohimbine or DNP.

Lipids will bounce back after 6-8 weeks after dropping the orals.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> I just started reading through this topic. Still have a damnload of pages to read a lot of good information.
> 
> I have a question regarding trt.
> 
> First question about keeping fertility on trt was already answered in the first pages. Hcg at 1000iu a week.
> 
> Other question is about pinning frequency and subq injection s of test. Many people on different trt groups and forums as well as some clinics claim more stable levels with subq injections. Whats your opinion on that.
> 
> Im thinking on starting twice a week and see how i react. Depending on my e2 levels i may try 3 times a week or eod to limit any Ai use specially on a trt dose


 I would bump to 1,500 per week for best results. Mon/Wed/Fri hcg or HMG if you have the funds and source for it at 75 IU x 2- 3 per week.

The recent obsession with Subq injections offer no real benefits, it's just a fad.

Subq holds less volume, higher risk of PIP due to more nerves (many complain of painful knots with SQ), Intramuscular with 29-31 gauge 1/2 inch is completely painless. SQ tissue has much poorer absorption due to less blood supply in adipose tissue versus muscle. There is no real benefit, some people like it and do fine on it, but there is nothing special about.

More frequent injections can actually make a difference for some people, especially fast metabolizers. Some guys can't take Test C/E once a week because they use up/metabolize the testosterone too quickly and by day 7 they will have very low levels. These guys do much better on x 2 weekly injections. Some people even like daily injections, if you don't mind pinning that often, there's no issue with it now that people use insulin needles (29-31 gauge 1/2 inch or 5/8th inch)

Testosterone levels do not have to be super stable all the time, endogenous testosterone has a diurnal variation, you can be at 800 in the morning and down to 400 by night time. You don't have to have 1,000 ng/dL testosterone 24/7, in fact, that in itself is unnatural.


----------



## Djibril

Thanks a lot for the fast and detailed answer.

Long term i would say twice a week works wonders when it comes to pinning. I would guess backloading insulin syringes would make everyday pinning very easy as well but i find it a pain in the ass.

Hope i do ok with twice a week pinning and ill do Intramuscular


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Thanks a lot for the fast and detailed answer.
> 
> Long term i would say twice a week works wonders when it comes to pinning. I would guess backloading insulin syringes would make everyday pinning very easy as well but i find it a pain in the ass.
> 
> Hope i do ok with twice a week pinning and ill do Intramuscular


 I prefill my syringes for the week, so it's extremely convenient. I also do this GH.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> I prefill my syringes for the week, so it's extremely convenient. I also do this GH.


 How often do you pin

Twice a week for long esters and eod for short?

Do you preload insulin syringes or just pull with a bigger needle and just change the needle come pinning day


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> How often do you pin
> 
> Twice a week for long esters and eod for short?
> 
> Do you preload insulin syringes or just pull with a bigger needle and just change the needle come pinning day


 x 2-3 per week for short esters.

Ace/prop : Mon/Wed/Fri, Bedtime friday/morning monday or Monday/Thursday.

Enanthate/Cypionate: x 1-2 per week

Preload x 7 syringes for GH per week , x 2-3 per week for test prop.

You backfill the syringes;

Draw a weeks worth of oil into a 18/21 gauge 3 cc syringe, pull the plungers out of the insulin syringes and fill them from the back to desired amount. Put the plunger back in slightly, shake or turn upside down to get the air bubble to the top and push out the air bubble. Repeat and done.

The GH syringes go in the fridge in a black zip bag, the prop syringes go in a drawer. Extremely convenient and fast.


----------



## trio

Hi,

I have a question, but their is a backing story to this. I ruptured and testicle, after taking a knee in sports. This gave me a few days in hospital where they decided whether or not to operate. They decided after a 2 days, operating now may cause more damage than good, as the healing process has already started. I had already planned/prepared for my cycle (Test E only for 10 weeks), but this as you can imagine was a major set-back. The testicle survived but the bottom 25% (think of the top of an egg) ruptured and whatever was in it blood/semen leaked out. The doctor said that the bit where its ruptured will heal over with scar tissue. Now it's been 9 months since then, I've had an ultra-sound follow up and it is healing as expected. Usually this would have had surgical intervention, had the hospital not took so long to get me in for an initial ultrasound. I've not wanted to start a cycle due to fluctuation in testicle size when the ASS kicks in and hypertrophy takes effect, which i have experienced before the injury with cycles (Test E). The injured testicle (left) was always the smaller testicle, the one that always shrunk the most when on cycle (would give minor pain/dull ache on first day or two of shrinking). Could the fluctuation in size cause another rupture/re-open the scar tissues?

1. My question main question is, show I risk a cycle?

2. What's the worst that could happen?

3. If I run HCG 1000iu, split into two doses then the testicle wont shrink at all, but will it not when transition to Nova/Clomid is made?

4. Maybe I could do a Dbol only for 4 weeks and see what happens?

Please sympathise with my situation. I'm prime at the moment for a cycle, lifting heavy, great diet, lean and big. I'm ready and dying to jump in. I can't exactly ask the doctor or urologist if taking gear will break my testicle. That would then shed light on ASS use, which i dont want. If anyone knows a urologist, that would help if you could ask them too lol.

Thanks.


----------



## Avgs

ElChapo said:


> You would get better results and look better on 300 mg test (especially prop) + 50 mg winstrol vs 500 mg test E. More strength, dryer/veinyer/pumped.
> 
> Test P+Winstrol will kick in very fast visually and in the gym, about 1-2 weeks versus Test E at 3-5 weeks.
> 
> Target fat loss should be 1-2 lbs per week, 1 lbs for optimal strength/muscle retention.
> 
> 15% to 10% should take about 8-10 weeks depending on your deficit and consistency. You can speed this up a bit by adding a fat burner like EC stack, clen, yohimbine or DNP.
> 
> Lipids will bounce back after 6-8 weeks after dropping the orals.


 Alright, I'll try winstrol first but I'm a bit worried about the dry joints + hairloss sides, if i find it too bad ill swap to var

Thanks

Edit: when do you need to use an AI with prop?


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> It depends on your goal. For bodybuilding, 50 mg is a solid dose and 100 mg for Advanced power lifters/bodybuilders.
> 
> 25 mg is more of a sports performance dose for a boxer or soccer player.


 If I'm 100% honest I'm am vein mofo and got a holiday in 7 weeks and a load of our friends have jumped on

plan was to cruise up until hold but I've now decide to run test 300, mast p 300 and thinking of adding winni at a low dose too. Just for cutting and aesthetics.

Thing is I've got a couple of boozy weekends/nights coming up and will be enjoying/pissing it up for 2 weeks on my holiday


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a question, but their is a backing story to this. I ruptured and testicle, after taking a knee in sports. This gave me a few days in hospital where they decided whether or not to operate. They decided after a 2 days, operating now may cause more damage than good, as the healing process has already started. I had already planned/prepared for my cycle (Test E only for 10 weeks), but this as you can imagine was a major set-back. The testicle survived but the bottom 25% (think of the top of an egg) ruptured and whatever was in it blood/semen leaked out. The doctor said that the bit where its ruptured will heal over with scar tissue. Now it's been 9 months since then, I've had an ultra-sound follow up and it is healing as expected. Usually this would have had surgical intervention, had the hospital not took so long to get me in for an initial ultrasound. I've not wanted to start a cycle due to fluctuation in testicle size when the ASS kicks in and hypertrophy takes effect, which i have experienced before the injury with cycles (Test E). The injured testicle (left) was always the smaller testicle, the one that always shrunk the most when on cycle (would give minor pain/dull ache on first day or two of shrinking). Could the fluctuation in size cause another rupture/re-open the scar tissues?
> 
> 1. My question main question is, show I risk a cycle?
> 
> 2. What's the worst that could happen?
> 
> 3. If I run HCG 1000iu, split into two doses then the testicle wont shrink at all, but will it not when transition to Nova/Clomid is made?
> 
> 4. Maybe I could do a Dbol only for 4 weeks and see what happens?
> 
> Please sympathise with my situation. I'm prime at the moment for a cycle, lifting heavy, great diet, lean and big. I'm ready and dying to jump in. I can't exactly ask the doctor or urologist if taking gear will break my testicle. That would then shed light on ASS use, which i dont want. If anyone knows a urologist, that would help if you could ask them too lol.
> 
> Thanks.


 1. It probably wont make a difference. I would be more concerned about your natural testosterone levels after such extensive damage to your testes. I would test your testosterone right now to get a baseline. Have you ever gotten it tested

2. I'm surprised it hasnt healed in 9 months. Most soft tissue injuries would be healed by now. I would get testosterone checked.

3. 1,500 IU is the ideal dosage for fertility/testicles size preservation. Again, i'm more concerned that its still not healed and what kind of permanent damage you may have incurred to your natural testosterone production. Scar tissue cannot produce sperm and testosterone and the ischemia may have damaged more of the tissues.

4. Dbol will still shut you down.


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Alright, I'll try winstrol first but I'm a bit worried about the dry joints + hairloss sides, if i find it too bad ill swap to var
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edit: when do you need to use an AI with prop?


 If you don't have gyno issues, libido and performance will be better with high-normal estradiol. It's best to avoid AI if not needed as it can easily shut down E2 and make you feel like garbage and affect performance.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> If I'm 100% honest I'm am vein mofo and got a holiday in 7 weeks and a load of our friends have jumped on
> 
> plan was to cruise up until hold but I've now decide to run test 300, mast p 300 and thinking of adding winni at a low dose too. Just for cutting and aesthetics.
> 
> Thing is I've got a couple of boozy weekends/nights coming up and will be enjoying/pissing it up for 2 weeks on my holiday


 Winstrol is the best AAS for drying out. Masteron is has a much more mild drying effect.

Not sure how much risk your liver would be in, so i can't advise you to take it. You're better off just getting very lean and staying on Test+Mast.


----------



## Raposo

Do you have any advice for a new GH user?

timming, dosage...

I was thinking about 6ui Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

I read that is bad to eat after using it, is that true?

Should I use insuline with gh? I was thinking about using intermediate life about 5-6 ui every time I use gh


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I won't name specific names on here, but there's a ton of blood work and anecdotal reviews confirming potency of generic GH.
> 
> The best thing to do is find a good source with a reputation, order a kit, run a GH serum test for yourself and confirm it's legit. You can then run an IGF-1 test to see how your body responds.
> 
> The average response for correctly dosed GH is 300 IGF for 3 IU, 400 IGF for 4 IU, etc.
> 
> Some people will respond lower due to genetics or taking certain compounds like nolvadex, tren/deca, etc. There's a misconception that the liver "converts" GH into IGF-1.
> 
> GH signals the liver to produce IGF-1, like LH/FSH signal the testes to produce testosterone and TSH signals the thyroid to produce T4/T3.
> 
> The recovery boost is more noticeable if you are older or have lower IGF-1 numbers than normal for your age, it can stack nicely with AAS, but it's not necessary for most people who train to build muscle. It's effective for anti-aging, recovery/injury healing, and building mass for advanced/elite bodybuilders when stack with insulin.


 So many great and informative posts in this thread regarding HGH and IGF 1


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> Do you have any advice for a new GH user?
> 
> timming, dosage...
> 
> I was thinking about 6ui Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
> 
> I read that is bad to eat after using it, is that true?
> 
> Should I use insuline with gh? I was thinking about using intermediate life about 5-6 ui every time I use gh


 I prefer bedtime, higher doses like 6 IU can cause lethargy. The body naturally secretes GH at night, this is when your body is resting and recovering.

What is your goal with GH? That will dictate the dosage, protocol, etc.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo This winter I'd like to up my test dosage to 350mg or 500mg for 3-4 months (small bulk , goal is to get stronger mostly and gain some mass on legs).

Would it be better to do 350mg + 25mg Tbol or 500mg ? I love Tbol but It make me feel lethargic , so maybe 500mg test only better ?

is there a big difference between 350mg and 500mg test on a caloric surplus of 200-300/day ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo This winter I'd like to up my test dosage to 350mg or 500mg for 3-4 months (small bulk , goal is to get stronger mostly and gain some mass on legs).
> 
> Would it be better to do 350mg + 25mg Tbol or 500mg ? I love Tbol but It make me feel lethargic , so maybe 500mg test only better ?
> 
> is there a big difference between 350mg and 500mg test on a caloric surplus of 200-300/day ?


 Best results would be 500 mg+25 mg tbol.


----------



## Raposo

ElChapo said:


> I prefer bedtime, higher doses like 6 IU can cause lethargy. The body naturally secretes GH at night, this is when your body is resting and recovering.
> 
> What is your goal with GH? That will dictate the dosage, protocol, etc.


 Some help for cutting. To be honest is more about living an experience. I mean, I do not think that GH is worth because of the cost. If you are rich enough for using overdosages then yes. But it is not my case. I was thinking about using it for cutting whilst I use some insulin and getting fit for about 4-5 months. Also, I'd need some help with the possibles injuries. when I was 18-20 I could train 100-110% of my total power. But know if I overtrain my elbows, and knees hurt so I was thinking that maybe some GH is better right now in order to prevent that "pain".

If I get too much water into the joints I would use something for the aldosterone. that is not a problem to be honest. But mostly is for experimentation during 4-6 months.

My current idea was 6 ui 3 times a week. As I heard that is better to get some rest in order to prefent some side effects such as anti-insulin antibodies or anti-gh antibodies. I've heard that most people use it 3-4 ui ED but considering that a normal person produces about 14-15 ui per week. i think that is better to concentrate the dosages in 3-4 days and just increase the dosage those days. What do you think about ir?

I will use insulin and metformin to control the blood glucose. And some testosterone (cruise dosage)


----------



## ElChapo

Raposo said:


> Some help for cutting. To be honest is more about living an experience. I mean, I do not think that GH is worth because of the cost. If you are rich enough for using overdosages then yes. But it is not my case. I was thinking about using it for cutting whilst I use some insulin and getting fit for about 4-5 months. Also, I'd need some help with the possibles injuries. when I was 18-20 I could train 100-110% of my total power. But know if I overtrain my elbows, and knees hurt so I was thinking that maybe some GH is better right now in order to prevent that "pain".
> 
> If I get too much water into the joints I would use something for the aldosterone. that is not a problem to be honest. But mostly is for experimentation during 4-6 months.
> 
> My current idea was 6 ui 3 times a week. As I heard that is better to get some rest in order to prefent some side effects such as anti-insulin antibodies or anti-gh antibodies. I've heard that most people use it 3-4 ui ED but considering that a normal person produces about 14-15 ui per week. i think that is better to concentrate the dosages in 3-4 days and just increase the dosage those days. What do you think about ir?
> 
> I will use insulin and metformin to control the blood glucose. And some testosterone (cruise dosage)


 Correct, for fat loss/cutting, not worth it at all. Even with cheaper chinese generics. You are better off with caloric deficit+cardio+fat burner (EC/DNP/clen/yohimbine/etc)

GH is best for anti-aging and recovery or for advanced bodybuilders looking to get to the next level when stacking with insulin.

If you are in your Late 20s-Early 30s and your IGF-1 levels are under 200 and you care about facial aesthetics/aging. You will benefit from 2-3 IU HGH daily. Studies show IGF-1 correlates with perceived age and wrinkles. This is where the phrase "Black never cracks" comes from. People of African descent have higher lifetime IGF-1 levels than any other ethnic people. They age much slower on average. That's thanks to IGF-1.

What are your exact goals with HGH right now? It can be vastly overwhelming depending on what you are expecting from it. I would recommend daily injections. Less frequent can work, but best results from studies/anecdotes would be daily. Even if antibodies develop, the GH activity is still the same and there is no evidence that less frequent injections would prevent this from occuring.

For cutting, don't waste your money on GH, period. This is coming from an advocate of GH (in the right circumstances).


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo "People of African descent have higher lifetime IGF-1 levels than any other ethnic people. They age much slower on average. That's thanks to IGF-1. "

What about asian people ? they don't age much , is it for the same reasons ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo "People of African descent have higher lifetime IGF-1 levels than any other ethnic people. They age much slower on average. That's thanks to IGF-1. "
> 
> What about asian people ? they don't age much , is it for the same reasons ?


 Asians actually seem to age and wrinkle very fast after a certain point. I believe asians have the lowest IGF-1 levels. This explains their bone structure and less propensity for muscle. Of course there are outliers in every ethnicity. There are asians with amazing genetics for muscle, but overall African Americans on average have higher testosterone and IGF-1 levels. They are also more likely to carry a gene that increase strength, power and speed called ACTN3. It's apparently found in over 90% of people with Jamaican descent. 23andme test can let you know if you have this gene if you analyze the raw file through a 3rd party program like Promethease.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Asians actually seem to age and wrinkle very fast after a certain point. I believe asians have the lowest IGF-1 levels. This explains their bone structure and less propensity for muscle. Of course there are outliers in every ethnicity. There are asians with amazing genetics for muscle, but overall African Americans on average have higher testosterone and IGF-1 levels. They are also more likely to carry a gene that increase strength, power and speed called ACTN3. It's apparently found in over 90% of people with Jamaican descent. 23andme test can let you know if you have this gene if you analyze the raw file through a 3rd party program like Promethease.


 I'm Asian and my bones are really thin and light , always wanted to increase the density to get stronger . I'm strong for my weight and overall but could be even better with bigger wrist bones.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo what do you think of microdosing Tren ace?

I never took any 19' for multiple reasons : mental health , Gyno , etc . but lately I've been thinking of doing a micro dosing cycle of 5-10mg tren ace ed sub Q.

I like experimenting but I'm also scared to get those side effects even with these low dosages .


----------



## JakobJuice

@ElChapodo you know If DHB got some effects, like EQ, on collagen synthesis?


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

-What do you think about adding 6iu HGH + XX Lantus (first thing am with HGH) to a blast cycle?

The idea is to inject enough Lantus to keep Fasted Glucose under 80.

-Which protocol would you use for maximum mass on HGH and Insulin? Consider having all type of insulin possible on hand.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo what do you think of microdosing Tren ace?
> 
> I never took any 19' for multiple reasons : mental health , Gyno , etc . but lately I've been thinking of doing a micro dosing cycle of 5-10mg tren ace ed sub Q.
> 
> I like experimenting but I'm also scared to get those side effects even with these low dosages .


 Like i always ask, what is the goal?


----------



## ElChapo

JakobJuice said:


> @ElChapodo you know If DHB got some effects, like EQ, on collagen synthesis?


 It's possible, winstrol, another "DHT type" AAS can increase collagen. I haven't seen any data of course, but it's a possibility.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> -What do you think about adding 6iu HGH + XX Lantus (first thing am with HGH) to a blast cycle?
> 
> The idea is to inject enough Lantus to keep Fasted Glucose under 80.
> 
> -Which protocol would you use for maximum mass on HGH and Insulin? Consider having all type of insulin possible on hand.


 I would stick to the short acting esters. You have finer control of your glucose levels that way. With lantus, you don't know if your BG will drop too much sometime during the day. This is less likely if you are constantly eating, but if it's not broken don't fix it applies here. GH+short acting insulin already does an incredible job for what you need it to do.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Like i always ask, what is the goal?


 More aesthetic look ( I'm 8% bf right now) , small strength gains ? any benefits . I've never tried tren because of it's sides , but I've read about some people microdosing it saying they didn't have any mental sides , just some lipids negative changes


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> More aesthetic look ( I'm 8% bf right now) , small strength gains ? any benefits . I've never tried tren because of it's sides , but I've read about some people microdosing it saying they didn't have any mental sides , just some lipids negative changes


 Lipids will still be cooked on low doses, my HDL was cut down over 50% after only one 25 mg injection.

Winstrol is better than tren at drying you out and has been safely used long-term for patients with hereditary angioedema at very low doses (around 5 mg daily).

Masteron would likely be the safest one to run, it has a mild drying effect, can increase libido, and helps block estrogen/gyno in a lot of people.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo I started on 4 iu hgh some days ago, strong stuff compared to peptides.

I have been getting some decent headaches due to the hgh and suspect it may be raising my blood pressure.

Any good tips for lowering it? Apart from lowering the dose of course, heh

I was looking into drinking a bit cranberry juice and eating some strawberries and a banana daily

Edit: altho in thinking about it, perhaps the most sensible thing to do, is to lower the dose to 3 iu for now


----------



## Matt83

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I started on 4 iu hgh some days ago, strong stuff compared to peptides.
> 
> I have been getting some decent headaches due to the hgh and suspect it may be raising my blood pressure.
> 
> Any good tips for lowering it? Apart from lowering the dose of course, heh
> 
> I was looking into drinking a bit cranberry juice and eating some strawberries and a banana daily
> 
> Edit: altho in thinking about it, perhaps the most sensible thing to do, is to lower the dose to 3 iu for now


 The best thing you can do is not start at a dose of 4IU!

Your meant to start at 1-2IU and slowly increase the dose over a few weeks to let your body adjust .

Jumping straight in at 4IU is just asking for side effects like increased water retention, which is more than likely why your blood pressure is feeling high.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Matt83 said:


> The best thing you can do is not start at a dose of 4IU!
> 
> Your meant to start at 1-2IU and slowly increase the dose over a few weeks to let your body adjust .
> 
> Jumping straight in at 4IU is just asking for side effects like increased water retention, which is more than likely why your blood pressure is feeling high.


 I know starting low is adviced, but I have been running the ipamorelin+mod grf combo, pinning 5-6 times daily for the last year, so I figured swapping from that to 4 iu of HGH should be fine


----------



## Matt83

Dannyb0yb said:


> I know starting low is adviced, but I have been running the ipamorelin+mod grf combo, pinning 5-6 times daily for the last year, so I figured swapping from that to 4 iu of HGH should be fine


 You can't compare how peptides and synthetic HGH will effect your body.

Peptides at saturation dose rely on forcing your pituitary gland to release whatever GH it has stored up at that particular time. They say that if your pituitary is in proper working order peptides can stimulate a release of GH equivalent to 1.3 IU of rHGH, but there is no guarantee your body will be able to do that once a day let alone 5-6 times a day.

Plus regardless of where you bought your peptides you have no idea how accurately dosed they are (same can be said of your rHGH though).

When you take 1IU of properly dosed rHGH you get the full effect of 1IU, not the unknown amount produced by peptides. This is why rHGH tends to have more impact on the body than peptides which leads to better results but also a higher rate of side effects.

When starting on a new drug it's always best to start at a low dose and slowly increase it so as to see how your body reacts.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Matt83 said:


> You can't compare how peptides and synthetic HGH will effect your body.
> 
> Peptides at saturation dose rely on forcing your pituitary gland to release whatever GH it has stored up at that particular time. They say that if your pituitary is in proper working order peptides can stimulate a release of GH equivalent to 1.3 IU of rHGH, but there is no guarantee your body will be able to do that once a day let alone 5-6 times a day.
> 
> Plus regardless of where you bought your peptides you have no idea how accurately dosed they are (same can be said of your rHGH though).
> 
> When you take 1IU of properly dosed rHGH you get the full effect of 1IU, not the unknown amount produced by peptides. This is why rHGH tends to have more impact on the body than peptides which leads to better results but also a higher rate of side effects.
> 
> When starting on a new drug it's always best to start at a low dose and slowly increase it so as to see how your body reacts.


 All valid and good points. I guess I got a bit reckless and cocky and just started on 4 iu.

All I can say is strong stuff compared to peptides, even when pinning 6 times daily with the ones from purepeptides

I will taper down the dose


----------



## Matt83

Don't taper it mate, just start taking 1IU and stay on that until the sides your experiencing go away (probably take a week or so) then up it to 2IU and stay on that for a week or so then go to 3IU etc, etc


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Matt83 said:


> Don't taper it mate, just start taking 1IU and stay on that until the sides your experiencing go away (probably take a week or so) then up it to 2IU and stay on that for a week or so then go to 3IU etc, etc


 Got ya


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I started on 4 iu hgh some days ago, strong stuff compared to peptides.
> 
> I have been getting some decent headaches due to the hgh and suspect it may be raising my blood pressure.
> 
> Any good tips for lowering it? Apart from lowering the dose of course, heh
> 
> I was looking into drinking a bit cranberry juice and eating some strawberries and a banana daily
> 
> Edit: altho in thinking about it, perhaps the most sensible thing to do, is to lower the dose to 3 iu for now


 I suggest getting a BP monitor. You can get a good one for around $20 USD. The omron brand base model is very good.

Cardio and fat loss are the top 2. Lowering high hematocrit can also bump it down.

When running GH, it's important to drink a lot of water. Your body will adjust.

What's your goal with GH? 3 IU of accurately dosed GH should put you around 300 ng/mL IGF-1, the level of a 18 year old.

I would drop to 3 IU, your body will be adjusted by week 5 and you can bump up to 4 IU. That's pretty much the sweet spot without insulin. Excess amounts can cause more water retention, higher blood sugar (temporary pre-diabetic state), and BP. 4 IU GH should put you around 400 ng/mL IGF-1, that's around the level of a 15 year old.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I suggest getting a BP monitor. You can get a good one for around $20 USD. The omron brand base model is very good.
> 
> Cardio and fat loss are the top 2. Lowering high hematocrit can also bump it down.
> 
> When running GH, it's important to drink a lot of water. Your body will adjust.
> 
> What's your goal with GH? 3 IU of accurately dosed GH should put you around 300 ng/mL IGF-1, the level of a 18 year old.
> 
> I would drop to 3 IU, your body will be adjusted by week 5 and you can bump up to 4 IU. That's pretty much the sweet spot without insulin. Excess amounts can cause more water retention, higher blood sugar (temporary pre-diabetic state), and BP. 4 IU GH should put you around 400 ng/mL IGF-1, that's around the level of a 15 year old.


 Thanks buddy!

The primary goal is assistance with the last 15-20% of injury recovery - achilles tendionosis and lower back strain.

The anti aging effects (especially increase in cognition) and the increase in mood/well being is also more than welcome


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> I suggest getting a BP monitor. You can get a good one for around $20 USD. The omron brand base model is very good.
> 
> Cardio and fat loss are the top 2. Lowering high hematocrit can also bump it down.
> 
> When running GH, it's important to drink a lot of water. Your body will adjust.
> 
> What's your goal with GH? 3 IU of accurately dosed GH should put you around 300 ng/mL IGF-1, the level of a 18 year old.
> 
> I would drop to 3 IU, your body will be adjusted by week 5 and you can bump up to 4 IU. That's pretty much the sweet spot without insulin. Excess amounts can cause more water retention, higher blood sugar (temporary pre-diabetic state), and BP. 4 IU GH should put you around 400 ng/mL IGF-1, that's around the level of a 15 year old.


 @El Chapo

I'm 38, almost fully recovered from a supraspinatus injury and have kept around 13-15% bodyfat until recently when I've added around 7kg of weight in 9 weeks.

Strength virtually back to pre injury levels now and based on above, would I benifit from running 3iu gh due to my age and injury to help lean gains or is it a waste? My 9 week cycle to start back was 600 mg test and 50mg winny so I planned to trt dose and cut for a few weeks then star again with 900 test, 100mg winny for 12 weeks (as these meds seem to be side free compared to many for me) so wondered if adding gh would aid me in any way?

I'm 6ft2 and 102kg. Last time I was very lean I was 93kg so looking to maybe cut to that then bulk.

Thoughts or advice is appreciated. Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Thanks buddy!
> 
> The primary goal is assistance with the last 15-20% of injury recovery - achilles tendionosis and lower back strain.
> 
> The anti aging effects (especially increase in cognition) and the increase in mood/well being is also more than welcome


 You notice that when you are younger, you heal from injuries faster, getting fat is much harder, and you learn things more easily.

A lot of that is attributable to higher IGF-1 levels. This is also the reason teenagers have the worst acne on average in a lifespan. IGF-1 can increase acne. It's also been linked to better libido, which also explains teenagers having strong libido. I've noticed this effect from HGH myself.

4 IU is a solid dose. Water retention and increased heart rate are normal side effects seen in studies.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I'm 38, almost fully recovered from a supraspinatus injury and have kept around 13-15% bodyfat until recently when I've added around 7kg of weight in 9 weeks.
> 
> Strength virtually back to pre injury levels now and based on above, would I benifit from running 3iu gh due to my age and injury to help lean gains or is it a waste? My 9 week cycle to start back was 600 mg test and 50mg winny so I planned to trt dose and cut for a few weeks then star again with 900 test, 100mg winny for 12 weeks (as these meds seem to be side free compared to many for me) so wondered if adding gh would aid me in any way?
> 
> I'm 6ft2 and 102kg. Last time I was very lean I was 93kg so looking to maybe cut to that then bulk.
> 
> Thoughts or advice is appreciated. Cheers.


 How would you be running the GH for? HGH also increases collagen production which can further help strengthen and rehab the injury.

It depends on your funds, chinese HGH is fairly cheap but can still put a hole in a wallet depending on dose/time.

So it's not really necessary for you, but if your IGF-1 Levels are under 170 ng/mL, i would consider year round HGH to bring your levels up to the youthful range. This can improve recovery, libido, muscle fullness, etc.


----------



## pugtk

Hey @El Chapo

I've reached the midpoint of my cycle:

500mg Test E per week, split into 2 1cc injections.

Arimdex at 2mg per week.

I ran Tbol from 60-80mg for the first 5 weeks

Gains were good with tbol but on test alone no major improvements. Although this is not the reason for the post.

My Prolactin Levels are extremely high.

Ive been recovering from cellulitus and had been on iv antibotics from the 8th to 10th of aug followed by 2 weeks of oral antibotics and painkillers(tylex or tylax 30mg ) from 12 a day week 1 down 3-6 on week 2.

I had my hormone check done last week when I was taking lower doesages of oral antibotics and tylex.

Im also suffering from poor erections.

Would my recent infection have caused this elevation or should I be taking caber or B6?


----------



## ElChapo

pugtk said:


> Hey @El Chapo
> 
> I've reached the midpoint of my cycle:
> 
> 500mg Test E per week, split into 2 1cc injections.
> 
> Arimdex at 2mg per week.
> 
> I ran Tbol from 60-80mg for the first 5 weeks
> 
> Gains were good with tbol but on test alone no major improvements. Although this is not the reason for the post.
> 
> My Prolactin Levels are extremely high.
> 
> Ive been recovering from cellulitus and had been on iv antibotics from the 8th to 10th of aug followed by 2 weeks of oral antibotics and painkillers(tylex or tylax 30mg ) from 12 a day week 1 down 3-6 on week 2.
> 
> I had my hormone check done last week when I was taking lower doesages of oral antibotics and tylex.
> 
> Im also suffering from poor erections.
> 
> Would my recent infection have caused this elevation or should I be taking caber or B6?
> 
> View attachment 174647
> 
> 
> What is your main concern? The erection issues? When did they start?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> How would you be running the GH for? HGH also increases collagen production which can further help strengthen and rehab the injury.
> 
> It depends on your funds, chinese HGH is fairly cheap but can still put a hole in a wallet depending on dose/time.
> 
> So it's not really necessary for you, but if your IGF-1 Levels are under 170 ng/mL, i would consider year round HGH to bring your levels up to the youthful range. This can improve recovery, libido, muscle fullness, etc.


 I can run it as long as needed, funds aren't an issue.

Where can you tested for igf-1 levels?

Cheers.


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

hey mate, just out of curiosity, what would happen if you did somehow manage to inject 3cc of oil (tren included) into a vein? would it go to your heart and possibly kill you ?

there has definetly been plenty of times ive asppirated and seen blood, just what would of happened if i didnt aspirate and injected ?


----------



## pugtk

@ElChapo

The erection problems and feelings of fatigue are the main concerns.

TBH erections haven't been great for this entire month.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I can run it as long as needed, funds aren't an issue.
> 
> Where can you tested for igf-1 levels?
> 
> Cheers.


 In the USA, you can get it on discountedlabs.com ,

For the UK, you would have to ask someone else. A UK friend of mine has shown me some places that do the IGF-1 test so should be available somewhere.

If your levels are under 200 ng/mL for IGF-1, i would run HGH replacement at 2-4 IU to get your levels in the high 200s-mid 300s. (Equivalent of 17-25 year old)

This is linked to better brain function, libido/erections, mood/well-being, etc. Proven by studies and my own anecdotes and others. There's also the aesthetic benefit of increased skin collagen which will prevent/slow down wrinkling and improved body composition/increased metabolism.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey mate, just out of curiosity, what would happen if you did somehow manage to inject 3cc of oil (tren included) into a vein? would it go to your heart and possibly kill you ?
> 
> there has definetly been plenty of times ive asppirated and seen blood, just what would of happened if i didnt aspirate and injected ?


 You would have to insert the needle directly into the vein like a heroin user or phlebotomist.

When you do an IM injection and get "tren cough", you are getting a tiny bit of oil in the blood stream. This is completely harmless.

If you inject directly into the vein, you could get an oil embolism and die from it. Nobody injects oils directly in the vein.


----------



## ElChapo

pugtk said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> The erection problems and feelings of fatigue are the main concerns.
> 
> TBH erections haven't been great for this entire month.


 If it started this month when all this sickness/antibiotics stuff happened, that's the most likely answer. That's the only variable that is different. It might just be an effect of being sick and taking the antibiotics.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> I suggest getting a BP monitor. You can get a good one for around $20 USD. The omron brand base model is very good.
> 
> Cardio and fat loss are the top 2. Lowering high hematocrit can also bump it down.
> 
> When running GH, it's important to drink a lot of water. Your body will adjust.
> 
> What's your goal with GH? 3 IU of accurately dosed GH should put you around 300 ng/mL IGF-1, the level of a 18 year old.
> 
> I would drop to 3 IU, your body will be adjusted by week 5 and you can bump up to 4 IU. That's pretty much the sweet spot without insulin. Excess amounts can cause more water retention, higher blood sugar (temporary pre-diabetic state), and BP. 4 IU GH should put you around 400 ng/mL IGF-1, that's around the level of a 15 year old.


 Shesh, I dropped 2 kg of water by dropping the dose from 4 iu to 3.

Im repeating myself here but hgh is really potent stuff compared to peptides


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> You would have to insert the needle directly into the vein like a heroin user or phlebotomist.
> 
> When you do an IM injection and get "tren cough", you are getting a tiny bit of oil in the blood stream. This is completely harmless.
> 
> If you inject directly into the vein, you could get an oil embolism and die from it. Nobody injects oils directly in the vein.


 ahok but is it possible to accidently have the needle in the vein when injecting ; and not knowing because you didnt aspirate ?

as i said ive aspirated before and blood came up a few times, does this mean im possibly in the vein and if i had of injected would this of caused issues?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> ahok but is it possible to accidently have the needle in the vein when injecting ; and not knowing because you didnt aspirate ?
> 
> as i said ive aspirated before and blood came up a few times, does this mean im possibly in the vein and if i had of injected would this of caused issues?


 No, you know when the phlebotomist is looking for a vein and they insert the needle right into it? That can't happen when you are going straight in IM @ 90 degree angle. It's not possible.

Even the phlebotomist have a hard time getting into a vein unless you are a bodybuilder with a lot of vascularity, they love us for that reason. Makes their job extremely easy.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> ahok but is it possible to accidently have the needle in the vein when injecting ; and not knowing because you didnt aspirate ?
> 
> as i said ive aspirated before and blood came up a few times, does this mean im possibly in the vein and if i had of injected would this of caused issues?


 *https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3205107/*

*
Acute respiratory distress following intravenous injection of an oil-steroid solution
*

*That's a case study on "tren cough". In this case, with testosterone and EQ. *


----------



## gymaddict1986

ElChapo said:


> *https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3205107/*
> 
> *
> Acute respiratory distress following intravenous injection of an oil-steroid solution
> *
> 
> *That's a case study on "tren cough". In this case, with testosterone and EQ. *


 Hello elchapo Recently done a blood test and got results through today . Everything came back fine apart from these red markers . I will note I have a skin abscess and could this cause my alt be so high? I have been on cycle for 5 months test and tren ect and have just 3 weeks back dropped to a cruise of 125mg test e a week . Are any of these red markers any cause of concern ?


----------



## ElChapo

gymaddict1986 said:


> Hello elchapo Recently done a blood test and got results through today . Everything came back fine apart from these red markers . I will note I have a skin abscess and could this cause my alt be so high? I have been on cycle for 5 months test and tren ect and have just 3 weeks back dropped to a cruise of 125mg test e a week . Are any of these red markers any cause of concern ?
> 
> View attachment 174805
> 
> 
> View attachment 174807


 Tren e or a? Could be the cause of the elevated liver enzymes sometimes. Muscle damage could also increase ALT, so the abscess may be a possible cause. The levels are not concerning. I would re-test in 4 weeks. I would only worry with acutely elevated levels in the mid to high hundreds for the liver enzymes, though long term at your level would be a concern as you would want to know the cause. If you have any kind of hepatitis virus, this can also cause intermittent flare ups in liver inflammation and subsequent increase in enzyme levels.

The HDL is very low, but that is expected. It takes about 6-8 weeks for HDL levels to recover. If it's tren ace, recovery will be faster than enanthate which sticks around longer supressing HDL levels.

Everything else looks good, just keep an eye on your GFR (Kidney function). Sometimes it can pop lowish in bodybuilder who have more muscle than the average person and consume more meat/protein. This is why in the USA we have the GFR and the African GFR (Africans tend to have more muscle/generate more creatinine). So when available, i recommend bodybuilders go with African reading.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hi Mate,

You mentioned using 4iu, what if you were to use 8iu vs 4iu? is there much point in this without insulin?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> You mentioned using 4iu, what if you were to use 8iu vs 4iu? is there much point in this without insulin?


 No, there are strong diminishing returns after 4 IU without insulin. More water retention and side effects. 4 IU is where i would cap non-insulin HGH usage. It's the sweet spot for benefits/sides ratio.

Your body can't utilize the very high levels without insulin, HGH decreases insulin sensitivity, creating an almost pre-diabetic state at high doses.


----------



## gymaddict1986

ElChapo said:


> Tren e or a? Could be the cause of the elevated liver enzymes sometimes. Muscle damage could also increase ALT, so the abscess may be a possible cause. The levels are not concerning. I would re-test in 4 weeks. I would only worry with acutely elevated levels in the mid to high hundreds for the liver enzymes, though long term at your level would be a concern as you would want to know the cause. If you have any kind of hepatitis virus, this can also cause intermittent flare ups in liver inflammation and subsequent increase in enzyme levels.
> 
> The HDL is very low, but that is expected. It takes about 6-8 weeks for HDL levels to recover. If it's tren ace, recovery will be faster than enanthate which sticks around longer supressing HDL levels.
> 
> Everything else looks good, just keep an eye on your GFR (Kidney function). Sometimes it can pop lowish in bodybuilder who have more muscle than the average person and consume more meat/protein. This is why in the USA we have the GFR and the African GFR (Africans tend to have more muscle/generate more creatinine). So when available, i recommend bodybuilders go with African reading.


 Hi thanks for the very helpful response . It was in fact tren e. I will recheck in 4 weeks . Also they will lower on a cruise of 150mg per week of test e?


----------



## mihawk_swkraths

Hello mate i've got high temperature issues for more than 1 month but when i check my body temperature it's normal almost 37 but i feel my body warmed up i notice this thing before i start inject boldenone and GHRP i was 2 months in testosterone cypionate 1ml E3D of 200mg's 
can be an inject infection from bacteria? or from oils?


----------



## ElChapo

gymaddict1986 said:


> Hi thanks for the very helpful response . It was in fact tren e. I will recheck in 4 weeks . Also they will lower on a cruise of 150mg per week of test e?


 Depends on genetics, most people will only have a slight decrease in HDL from TRT dose testosterone.

Testosterone has an anti-atherogenic effect, so it protects you from calcification/plaque formation and helps prevent stroke and heart attack at optimal doses. This more than makes up for the small drop in HDL.


----------



## ElChapo

mihawk_swkraths said:


> Hello mate i've got high temperature issues for more than 1 month but when i check my body temperature it's normal almost 37 but i feel my body warmed up i notice this thing before i start inject boldenone and GHRP i was 2 months in testosterone cypionate 1ml E3D of 200mg's
> can be an inject infection from bacteria? or from oils?


 Hormones can make you feel warm. High E2 and even high levels of androgens. Tren does this to a lot of people, its like hot flashes that women get. Harmless.

I doubt its thyroid related since your temp is normal. Make sure you dont drink anything close to when you do oral temp.

If it was bacteria or infection, you would likely have a fever and definitely have injection site redness/inflammation/pain.


----------



## mihawk_swkraths

ElChapo said:


> Hormones can make you feel warm. High E2 and even high levels of androgens.
> 
> I doubt its thyroid related since your temp is normal. Make sure you dont drink anything close to when you do oral temp.
> 
> If it was bacteria or infection, you would likely have a fever and definitely have injection site redness/inflammation/pain.


 my testosterone level is growing up my natty test level was 7.01 in a max of 8.6
previous blood test was >15 now it's >18.2 WTF IS GOING ON? 
joaquin check ur personal messages

thanks for the fast answer SENSEI you should get promoted here in forum like a moderator os smthng like that i lost for more than 1 hourr and a half for reading this whole post not even all the pages but you're a guarantee man and totally helpfull 
thanks again


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

is there any negative inpact on running yohimbine year round ?


----------



## ElChapo

mihawk_swkraths said:


> my testosterone level is growing up my natty test level was 7.01 in a max of 8.6
> previous blood test was >15 now it's >18.2 WTF IS GOING ON?
> joaquin check ur personal messages
> 
> thanks for the fast answer SENSEI you should get promoted here in forum like a moderator os smthng like that i lost for more than 1 hourr and a half for reading this whole post not even all the pages but you're a guarantee man and totally helpfull
> thanks again


 Thank you brother

Are you or were you recently taking clomid/nolvadex/raloxifene or HCG? How long ago was your last testosterone injection and what type of testosterone?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> is there any negative inpact on running yohimbine year round ?


 It would be similar to using caffeine year round. As long as you don't get high blood pressure from it/or if you control the BP there should be no issue. It's something of a psychoactive substance and a strong stimulant. It can also increase libido and erection strength.

Just be careful, if you take it for a long time there can be a bad crash from using it.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo would you advice 1 day fasting once a week?

Goal is to increase HGH , some more fat loss or any benefits of fasting.

I never fasted but I've watched videos about it explaining benefits on HGH , IGF-1 usage etc.


----------



## Playtowin

gymaddict1986 said:


> Hi thanks for the very helpful response . It was in fact tren e. I will recheck in 4 weeks . Also they will lower on a cruise of 150mg per week of test e?


 What test did you get here. I need a full test like this now.


----------



## gymaddict1986

Playtowin said:


> What test did you get here. I need a full test like this now.


 Medic checks. Search for the sports hormone test .


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo would you advice 1 day fasting once a week?
> 
> Goal is to increase HGH , some more fat loss or any benefits of fasting.
> 
> I never fasted but I've watched videos about it explaining benefits on HGH , IGF-1 usage etc.


 No, that would be useless.

You might get some benefit from intermittent fasting, literally just skipping breakfast.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Taking injectable Dbol / anavar / Sdrol would have the same side effects than orals?

For exemple , anavar give me really bad gas/stomach bloat, would injectable give the same side ? I guess it won't but I may be wrong.

And does it have to be taken everyday like orals ? or would the ester last long enough to jab only twice a week for exemple ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Taking injectable Dbol / anavar / Sdrol would have the same side effects than orals?
> 
> For exemple , anavar give me really bad gas/stomach bloat, would injectable give the same side ? I guess it won't but I may be wrong.
> 
> And does it have to be taken everyday like orals ? or would the ester last long enough to jab only twice a week for exemple ?


 Sides may be different and possibly less harsh. I base this on the fact that oral administration of estrogen (a steroid hormone like AAS) has very different effects than topical and injectable estrogen. Anecdotally, i have used injectable superdrol and lethargy was there but not crippling and it was extremely effective for strength/pump/dryness at 120 mg per week.

Bioavailability is also much higher with injectables, so you need less mg per week for the same effect and it will hit the liver a lot less. A buddy of mine has run liver enzyme tests on injectable orals and they were completely normal, so that's a good data point to support this theory. (Not bunk oils either)


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Sides may be different and possibly less harsh. I base this on the fact that oral administration of estrogen (a steroid hormone like AAS) has very different effects than topical and injectable estrogen. Anecdotally, i have used injectable superdrol and lethargy was there but not crippling and it was extremely effective for strength/pump/dryness at 120 mg per week.
> 
> Bioavailability is also much higher with injectables, so you need less mg per week for the same effect and it will hit the liver a lot less. A buddy of mine has run liver enzyme tests on injectable orals and they were completely normal, so that's a good data point to support this theory. (Not bunk oils either)


 thank you , You injected once a week the superdrol or everyday?

I'm thinking of getting some injectable anavar for 2020 even tho I don't know where I can find that


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo out of curiosity whats your opinion on the use of stem cells and platelet rich plasma (prp), for sports injuries?

Also, whats your view on the long term dangers of ssri's like citalopram?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> thank you , You injected once a week the superdrol or everyday?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting some injectable anavar for 2020 even tho I don't know where I can find that


 Mon/Wed/Fri

If it's that hard to source, i would not bother. Even injectable winstrol isn't that easy to find. Orals are much harder to keep in solution. The recipes are more complicated than your basic test e 300 brew.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo out of curiosity whats your opinion on the use of stem cells and platelet rich plasma (prp), for sports injuries?
> 
> Also, whats your view on the long term dangers of ssri's like citalopram?


 There seems to be some good data out there supporting both in sports medicine.

The best thing i've found is to identify injury as early as possible and complete rest. This will usually heal everything up on it's own. "Prevention is the best medicine"

SSRIs: Lots of weird side effects, nasty/tough withdrawal for some people. I'm not a big pharma conspiracist but what happens when they run out a patent on a perfectly good medication (like old school/highly effective anti-depressant wellbutrin which increases dopamine) is they push the doctors to prescribe a new drug and they release a bunch of studies (possibly biased) so they can make big $$$ since they lose billions once generics come out for their expired patented drugs.

I always recommend a dopamine based drug but it also depends on the type of depression (bipolar vs major depression/etc). Wellbutrin for one has a very low risk of side effects, easy withdrawal and some positive benefits like weight loss and fighting cravings for drugs like nicotine/alcohol. Think of dopamine as "excitement" and Serotonin as "contentment".

Dopamine drives you to perform and encourages motivation/excitement. Serotonin just makes you content, some people have described as a "zombie" like happiness. Not real happiness.


----------



## Djibril

Hello, once again thanks for all the valuable information.

Regarding estrogen control and gyno prevention while on cycle what is the latest you recommend running on a cycle as for an AI, im more keen on Aromasin because it is supposed to be better on the lipids and doesnt have a rebound in estrogen, whats your opinion?

Also, what would you prefer to have on hand to use in case any sign of gyno appear until you find your sweet spot with the AI dose, is raloxifene better then tamoxifen for that purpose?

I was curious too about Nizoral 2% you recommended for MPB, i want to try masteron but the hair loss kind of steps me back, is nizoral good for prevention?

I have honestly found a lot of the information in the pages, but still have more the 250 to go lol. I wish there was a search button for the thread


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Hello, once again thanks for all the valuable information.
> 
> Regarding estrogen control and gyno prevention while on cycle what is the latest you recommend running on a cycle as for an AI, im more keen on Aromasin because it is supposed to be better on the lipids and doesnt have a rebound in estrogen, whats your opinion?
> 
> Also, what would you prefer to have on hand to use in case any sign of gyno appear until you find your sweet spot with the AI dose, is raloxifene better then tamoxifen for that purpose?
> 
> I was curious too about Nizoral 2% you recommended for MPB, i want to try masteron but the hair loss kind of steps me back, is nizoral good for prevention?
> 
> I have honestly found a lot of the information in the pages, but still have more the 250 to go lol. I wish there was a search button for the thread


 Arimidex/Aromasin ; To me it doesn't matter. Whichever once is easiest to source and cheapest. The difference with lipids/rebound won't many any significant difference.

The dose will vary depending on your dose of aromatizeable AAS (Test/deca/etc) and your genetics. Some guy are very high aromatizers, others barely convert. This takes some experimentation. I err towards keeping E2 in the normal-high end as many of the benefits of testosterone. A safe starter dose is 0.5 mg adex per week or 25 mg aromasin per week. Split E3D.

Nolvadex or raloxifene. Be prepared to run it for 4-12 weeks to reverse the gyno. They both work very effectively. There is a shortage of raloxifene recently (probably thanks to me)

Masteron is an overrated compound, it does not do much. Light drying effect, poor for building muscle and strength. It is notorious for hair loss and some people get prostate symptoms from it (myself included).

Nizoral is proven to prevent and/or slow down hairloss. It can actually reverse hairloss, it has regrown temple hair for me and kept my hair from worsening.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> It would be similar to using caffeine year round. As long as you don't get high blood pressure from it/or if you control the BP there should be no issue. It's something of a psychoactive substance and a strong stimulant. It can also increase libido and erection strength.
> 
> Just be careful, if you take it for a long time there can be a bad crash from using it.


 thanks !

what dose would be advisable, im 98kg and and 12 % bf

what type of crash ? in libido or ?

also, what happens if a small part of the rubber from vial get injected accidently ? been times ive seen a part of the rubber go into barrel and i emptied and started again ; but what happens if i did inject? im sure ive done it before without knowing !?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> thanks !
> 
> what dose would be advisable, im 98kg and and 12 % bf
> 
> what type of crash ? in libido or ?
> 
> also, what happens if a small part of the rubber from vial get injected accidently ? been times ive seen a part of the rubber go into barrel and i emptied and started again ; but what happens if i did inject? im sure ive done it before without knowing !?


 0.2mg per kg of bodyweight

Energy and mood crash. Likely libido as well. What comes up, must come down.

Your body will usually encapsulate the rubber piece and it's harmless. Sometimes it can lead to infection or inflammatory response, especially if you're allergic, but 9/10 its harmeless, ppl inject rubber all the time without knowing or realizing it.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

I've been looking at comments you had made about stacking orals to get a synergistic effect.

Would 600 test, 50mg winny and 50mg anadrol for 10 weeks be a good bulk?then the test for another few weeks, or just pick one oral and run it. Then cruise on trt until bloods are acceptable. Thanks in advance (running strom support max for the entire cycle)


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I've been looking at comments you had made about stacking orals to get a synergistic effect.
> 
> Would 600 test, 50mg winny and 50mg anadrol for 10 weeks be a good bulk?then the test for another few weeks, or just pick one oral and run it. Then cruise on trt until bloods are acceptable. Thanks in advance (running strom support max for the entire cycle)


 I don't recall recommending this, generally i would just run one oral, possibly at higher doses.

What i do usually say is that stacking orals does not have an additive effects on hepatotoxicity which some people seem to think, what matters is the total dosage, time on, and concurrent drug/alcohol use and pre-existing liver disease (hepatitis/cirrhosis/etc).

Regardless, that's a great stack you proposed. You can even push 600 mg to 1 gram depending on your experience level and size. How long are you running the full cycle? If it's Test E, you could go for 16 weeks and push the orals the full 16 weeks but run UDCA or TUDCA with it for insurance and avoid moderate-heavy drinking.

UDCA/TUDCA+NAC is the most effective stack for liver support. STROM ingredients have both of these so that's great.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> How much meat is she eating? Vegetables and fruits are extremely overrated for health.


 Vegetables and fruit are extremely overrated for health is interesting and I often wondered realistically if the '5 a day' nonsense was actually that critical and would make that much of a difference. But can you explain why you feel they are overated and what foods you would suggest for health?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Vegetables and fruit are extremely overrated for health is interesting and I often wondered realistically if the '5 a day' nonsense was actually that critical and would make that much of a difference. But can you explain why you feel they are overated and what foods you would suggest for health?


 No, more important than that non-sense is *being active with cardio/lifting weights* (Keep your heart/lungs healthy as you age, bones/muscles as well), *avoiding obesity* (makes the heart work harder, increases whole body inflammation/cancer risk, decreases insulin sensitivity), *controlling BP/blood sugar* (high levels destroy retinal/kidney/brain cells and are risk factors for poor vision, kidney failure, heart disease and even dementia as you age)

No amount of vegetables will come close to having such positive effect on your health than everything i mentioned above. Vegetables are touted as some panacea, but the true panacea is exercise. Nothing is so effective with no side effects as cardiovascular exercise. As effective as medicine for depression, diabetes, obesity, etc.

There is no physiological reason for why eating a lot of vegetables would be that significant for your health. You get some trace vitamins/minerals, sometimes poorly absorbed due to compounds in the vegetables, other times low levels of vit/minerals due to soil content where the plant is grown. You get nitrates from some vegetables which can improve circulation and some anti-oxidants. Generally, all of this is good for your health but maybe only 5% in comparison to my list of the really important things needed to be "healthy".


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> I don't recall recommending this, generally i would just run one oral, possibly at higher doses.
> 
> What i do usually say is that stacking orals does not have an additive effects on hepatotoxicity which some people seem to think, what matters is the total dosage, time on, and concurrent drug/alcohol use and pre-existing liver disease (hepatitis/cirrhosis/etc).
> 
> Regardless, that's a great stack you proposed. You can even push 600 mg to 1 gram depending on your experience level and size. How long are you running the full cycle? If it's Test E, you could go for 16 weeks and push the orals the full 16 weeks but run UDCA or TUDCA with it for insurance and avoid moderate-heavy drinking.
> 
> UDCA/TUDCA+NAC is the most effective stack for liver support. STROM ingredients have both of these so that's great.


 Ah, I see. I might have read the part about stacking things not increasing the hepatoxivity and gotten mixed up. The idea is oct Nov Dec for the blast. I'm 102kg just now, back to lifting my heaviest after an injury to my left shoulder and thought that 12 weeks of an oral might be too much, however I do my cardio and don't drink when bulking so might play it by ear and go for it properly this time.

You think 1g versus 600mg test (with the orals on top) is a massive jump from 600? I had considered 600test 400npp and the orals but test Oxys and winny tend to be aide free for me.


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think of Milos Sarcev's training style and methods?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Ah, I see. I might have read the part about stacking things not increasing the hepatoxivity and gotten mixed up. The idea is oct Nov Dec for the blast. I'm 102kg just now, back to lifting my heaviest after an injury to my left shoulder and thought that 12 weeks of an oral might be too much, however I do my cardio and don't drink when bulking so might play it by ear and go for it properly this time.
> 
> You think 1g versus 600mg test (with the orals on top) is a massive jump from 600? I had considered 600test 400npp and the orals but test Oxys and winny tend to be aide free for me.


 It depends on your cycle experience and size if you want to bump 1 gram. Some advanced people also due well with 600 mg, but generally more is better as long as you have the experience, diet, training to maximize the benefits, other wise it's just wasted and increases the risk of sides.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think of Milos Sarcev's training style and methods?


 No idea, tell me more about it.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> No idea, tell me more about it.


 




He calls this giant set training, but it isn't. It's more like a never ending dropset of rotational exercises. If you're not familiar with him, he's massive on insulin use.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> He calls this giant set training, but it isn't. It's more like a never ending dropset of rotational exercises. If you're not familiar with him, he's massive on insulin use.


 As long as you're following the principles of progressive overload+excess calories and proper rest, anything will work. The limiting factor for volume is recovery. If volume is too high, recovery suffers, if recovery suffers, progressive overload stops and then you plateau, that's when you know you need to cut back. (Unless the deficit is in the calories/macros)


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> As long as you're following the principles of progressive overload+excess calories and proper rest, anything will work. The limiting factor for volume is recovery. If volume is too high, recovery suffers, if recovery suffers, progressive overload stops and then you plateau, that's when you know you need to cut back. (Unless the deficit is in the calories/macros)


 Yeah I fully grasp this, just this coaches rather unique style of training. some cell swelling b.s thanks again.


----------



## Jordan08

*CAN LEUCINE CONSUMPTION BEFORE EXERCISE HINDER PERFORMANCE?*

One of the more well-characterized muscle-building supplements is the branched-chain amino acid leucine, which has clearly been shown to inhibit muscle protein breakdown while simultaneously increasing the rate of muscle protein synthesis, ultimately promoting substantial muscle growth. Leucine consumption promotes muscle protein accumulation and muscle growth by activating the extremely important nutrient-sensing molecule mTOR, which directly turns off muscle protein degradation while activating muscle protein synthesis. Several studies have shown mTOR activation by leucine intake, specifically during and after resistance exercise.

Although it has been well established that leucine consumption during and after resistance exercise promotes muscle growth, the verdict is still out regarding the performance-enhancing effect from leucine consumption before training. Some of the uncertainty about leucine's pre-workout consumption stems from the fact that leucine consumption decreases energy production within the muscle cell, potentially diminishing muscle performance during exercise. Another concern about pre-workout leucine consumption involves the likely desensitization of the potent muscle-building hormone insulin, resulting from additional leucine consumed before working out. The final concern involves the negative influence that leucine consumption may have on the central nervous system (CNS) where pre-workout leucine consumption might increase the rate of CNS fatigue, promoting overall sluggishness that decreases exercise performance.

*
Pre-workout Leucine Decreases Muscle Cell Energy
*

In order to build muscle, you'd think that you need to be in an anabolic state at all times- which might also make you believe that the ubiquitous consumption of muscle-building compounds, like leucine, should enhance muscle growth. Yet the reality is being constantly in an anabolic state is not optimal for muscle size and strength. This is mainly because maximal muscle growth requires the perfect blend of muscle-building anabolism combined with energy-producing catabolism. In other words, if you want to build muscle, something has to supply it with energy to function. Well, that's where catabolic processes like glycogenolysis, the breakdown of glycogen into glucose for energy, play a huge role mainly because intense weightlifting requires glucose for energy. So, although leucine potently stimulates muscle growth, it also prevents the breakdown of glycogen into glucose, reducing available energy that is necessary for muscle contraction. Of course, reduced muscular contraction decreases strength output- which likely compromises the ability to get huge.

*
Too Much Leucine Diminishes Muscle Growth
*

Insulin is the most potent muscle-building hormone produced in the human body, possessing the ability to drastically increase muscle protein synthesis and enhance muscle growth. Insulin achieves this muscle-building effect by binding to the insulin receptor and setting off a cascade of signaling events that eventually activates the enzyme mTOR, triggering muscle growth. However, insulin signaling is very sensitive to overstimulation- where too much insulin signaling can rapidly trigger negative feedback mechanisms that turn down insulin-driven muscle growth.

In addition to the well-known influence that glucose has on insulin secretion and activity, one of the more potent insulin activators is leucine. Interestingly, several studies have shown that insulin resistance can occur with increased amino acid consumption, especially the branched-chain amino acid leucine. The exact mechanism by which leucine modulates insulin sensitivity is currently unclear. Although the decreased insulin sensitivity may be associated with greater insulin secretion induced by leucine, potentially inducing insulin resistance. Of course, insulin resistance from too much leucine consumption would reduce all of insulin's anabolic properties, meaning a decrease in muscle protein accumulation and therefore muscle growth.

*
Leucine Consumption Before Your Workout Promotes Sluggishness and Fatigue
*

The CNS, composed of the brain and spinal cord, serves as the main "processing center" for the entire nervous system that controls all the workings of your body. Neurons, or nerve cells, are the core components of the CNS that function to receive and confer all of this body-regulating information by electrical and chemical signaling. Neuronal electrical signaling is ultimately converted at the nerve ending or synapse into chemical signaling utilizing neurotransmitters that diffuse across the synapse to adjacent neurons, triggering further electrical signaling down those neurons, which eventually control numerous processes in the body.

Serotonin is a neurotransmitter secreted within the neuronal synapse that induces sleep and drowsiness. Intense exercise has been shown to increase the release of serotonin in the brain, putatively contributing to exercise-induced fatigue. Initially, it was thought that the increase in serotonin alone triggered fatigue. However, it turns out that greater fatigue from exercise is influenced more specifically by an increase in the ratio of serotonin to another neurotransmitter known as dopamine.

The neurotransmitter dopamine has well-defined roles including increased mental arousal, improved motor control and greater levels of motivation, which all tend to improve exercise performance. Therefore, a lower serotonin to dopamine ratio, by either decreasing performance-inhibiting serotonin or increasing performance-enhancing dopamine, should improve exercise capacity. Interestingly, leucine consumption has been shown to inhibit serotonin production by preventing transport of the serotonin-precursor tryptophan into the brain. Because tryptophan is a building block for serotonin, lower tryptophan in the brain reduces serotonin production- suggesting that leucine consumption before exercise could actually mitigate exercise-induced fatigue.

On the other hand, a recent study by Choi et al. showed that leucine also competitively inhibits dopamine production by preventing the uptake of the dopamine-precursor tyrosine into the brain. Since greater brain dopamine function improves physical performance, the finding that leucine reduces dopamine levels in the brain highlights why leucine consumption, especially before exercise when motivation and energy levels are paramount, may have a detrimental influence on physical performance despite leucine's ability to also reduce serotonin levels.

In conclusion, leucine's capacity to trigger anabolic processes, such as muscle growth and glycogen production, makes the timing of leucine consumption very important. While leucine consumption during and after lifting weights effectively prevents muscle breakdown while enhancing muscle growth, consuming leucine before your workout appears to have several drawbacks that negatively influence exercise performance- suggesting that pre-workout leucine consumption is not best for optimal muscular performance.

*Would love to hear your views on the above statements. Thanks in advance*

@Bensif*, your views are welcomed too bud.*


----------



## Royboss

El Chapoo, just wanna thank you been following this thread for a while now and I gotta say taken in so much useful info on board thanks to you and everyone's input great thread.

my current situation is

I've been training solid now for 20 years and I'm 40 years old low bf 103kg

great diet

6.4

have had fair few cycles current one I started was this January which was suppose to be 20 wk test only 600mg a week cycle which I completed and have maintained a cruise of 300mg test e7d up until now just to maintain what I gained which I've held onto.

So I've been on for a while now stupidly I know 7 months longest I ever been on I normally only do 20wk cycles.

Now Im not sure weather to come of now and PCT and stay of till next March giving myself a much need good rest till I blast again in March or continue cruising on 300mg till March.

i have my 3 children so I've no worries with regards to being fertile.

Health seems ok doing lots cardio, my libido has taken a little hit this last week for the first time ever so gonna get bloods done to give me a better indication on my levels.

I booked in to donate some blood as I've never done this since I've been cycling.

just in 2 minds to come of or stay on and it's driving me mad.

would appreciate any input or pointers.

Cheers


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

What would you say the optimal training time is? I usually do 35-45 minutes but this usually includes one bodypart e.g Chest, I see some people spending two hours in the gym and think surely that's too much


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Yeah I fully grasp this, just this coaches rather unique style of training. some cell swelling b.s thanks again.


 That sounds pretty quacky. Just sounds like high volume, which works great for advanced/elite bodybuilders. It's good to use both high volume with strength based training for best results, as seen with legends like Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, Franco, Dorian Yates, and others. Some guys use one more than the other, depends on training style and even genetics.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> *CAN LEUCINE CONSUMPTION BEFORE EXERCISE HINDER PERFORMANCE?*
> 
> One of the more well-characterized muscle-building supplements is the branched-chain amino acid leucine, which has clearly been shown to inhibit muscle protein breakdown while simultaneously increasing the rate of muscle protein synthesis, ultimately promoting substantial muscle growth. Leucine consumption promotes muscle protein accumulation and muscle growth by activating the extremely important nutrient-sensing molecule mTOR, which directly turns off muscle protein degradation while activating muscle protein synthesis. Several studies have shown mTOR activation by leucine intake, specifically during and after resistance exercise.
> 
> Although it has been well established that leucine consumption during and after resistance exercise promotes muscle growth, the verdict is still out regarding the performance-enhancing effect from leucine consumption before training. Some of the uncertainty about leucine's pre-workout consumption stems from the fact that leucine consumption decreases energy production within the muscle cell, potentially diminishing muscle performance during exercise. Another concern about pre-workout leucine consumption involves the likely desensitization of the potent muscle-building hormone insulin, resulting from additional leucine consumed before working out. The final concern involves the negative influence that leucine consumption may have on the central nervous system (CNS) where pre-workout leucine consumption might increase the rate of CNS fatigue, promoting overall sluggishness that decreases exercise performance.
> 
> *
> Pre-workout Leucine Decreases Muscle Cell Energy
> *
> 
> In order to build muscle, you'd think that you need to be in an anabolic state at all times- which might also make you believe that the ubiquitous consumption of muscle-building compounds, like leucine, should enhance muscle growth. Yet the reality is being constantly in an anabolic state is not optimal for muscle size and strength. This is mainly because maximal muscle growth requires the perfect blend of muscle-building anabolism combined with energy-producing catabolism. In other words, if you want to build muscle, something has to supply it with energy to function. Well, that's where catabolic processes like glycogenolysis, the breakdown of glycogen into glucose for energy, play a huge role mainly because intense weightlifting requires glucose for energy. So, although leucine potently stimulates muscle growth, it also prevents the breakdown of glycogen into glucose, reducing available energy that is necessary for muscle contraction. Of course, reduced muscular contraction decreases strength output- which likely compromises the ability to get huge.
> 
> *
> Too Much Leucine Diminishes Muscle Growth
> *
> 
> Insulin is the most potent muscle-building hormone produced in the human body, possessing the ability to drastically increase muscle protein synthesis and enhance muscle growth. Insulin achieves this muscle-building effect by binding to the insulin receptor and setting off a cascade of signaling events that eventually activates the enzyme mTOR, triggering muscle growth. However, insulin signaling is very sensitive to overstimulation- where too much insulin signaling can rapidly trigger negative feedback mechanisms that turn down insulin-driven muscle growth.
> 
> In addition to the well-known influence that glucose has on insulin secretion and activity, one of the more potent insulin activators is leucine. Interestingly, several studies have shown that insulin resistance can occur with increased amino acid consumption, especially the branched-chain amino acid leucine. The exact mechanism by which leucine modulates insulin sensitivity is currently unclear. Although the decreased insulin sensitivity may be associated with greater insulin secretion induced by leucine, potentially inducing insulin resistance. Of course, insulin resistance from too much leucine consumption would reduce all of insulin's anabolic properties, meaning a decrease in muscle protein accumulation and therefore muscle growth.
> 
> *
> Leucine Consumption Before Your Workout Promotes Sluggishness and Fatigue
> *
> 
> The CNS, composed of the brain and spinal cord, serves as the main "processing center" for the entire nervous system that controls all the workings of your body. Neurons, or nerve cells, are the core components of the CNS that function to receive and confer all of this body-regulating information by electrical and chemical signaling. Neuronal electrical signaling is ultimately converted at the nerve ending or synapse into chemical signaling utilizing neurotransmitters that diffuse across the synapse to adjacent neurons, triggering further electrical signaling down those neurons, which eventually control numerous processes in the body.
> 
> Serotonin is a neurotransmitter secreted within the neuronal synapse that induces sleep and drowsiness. Intense exercise has been shown to increase the release of serotonin in the brain, putatively contributing to exercise-induced fatigue. Initially, it was thought that the increase in serotonin alone triggered fatigue. However, it turns out that greater fatigue from exercise is influenced more specifically by an increase in the ratio of serotonin to another neurotransmitter known as dopamine.
> 
> The neurotransmitter dopamine has well-defined roles including increased mental arousal, improved motor control and greater levels of motivation, which all tend to improve exercise performance. Therefore, a lower serotonin to dopamine ratio, by either decreasing performance-inhibiting serotonin or increasing performance-enhancing dopamine, should improve exercise capacity. Interestingly, leucine consumption has been shown to inhibit serotonin production by preventing transport of the serotonin-precursor tryptophan into the brain. Because tryptophan is a building block for serotonin, lower tryptophan in the brain reduces serotonin production- suggesting that leucine consumption before exercise could actually mitigate exercise-induced fatigue.
> 
> On the other hand, a recent study by Choi et al. showed that leucine also competitively inhibits dopamine production by preventing the uptake of the dopamine-precursor tyrosine into the brain. Since greater brain dopamine function improves physical performance, the finding that leucine reduces dopamine levels in the brain highlights why leucine consumption, especially before exercise when motivation and energy levels are paramount, may have a detrimental influence on physical performance despite leucine's ability to also reduce serotonin levels.
> 
> In conclusion, leucine's capacity to trigger anabolic processes, such as muscle growth and glycogen production, makes the timing of leucine consumption very important. While leucine consumption during and after lifting weights effectively prevents muscle breakdown while enhancing muscle growth, consuming leucine before your workout appears to have several drawbacks that negatively influence exercise performance- suggesting that pre-workout leucine consumption is not best for optimal muscular performance.
> 
> *Would love to hear your views on the above statements. Thanks in advance*
> 
> @Bensif*, your views are welcomed too bud.*


 I would pay it no mind at all. This is called micro-managing. BCAA/Leucine have a neutral to positive effect on performance in the real world. The decrease in serotonin & tryptophan when BCAA/Leucine take up the transporters is thought to increase performance by diminishing feelings of fatigue but the theory is that this positive effect is negated due to the decrease in dopamine/adrenaline. So it cancels itself out.

This is the kind of thing that really makes no difference in the big picture. Always focus on Progressive overload/Calories in+out/rest+recovery. That's your foundation to success in building muscle and strength.


----------



## ElChapo

Royboss said:


> El Chapoo, just wanna thank you been following this thread for a while now and I gotta say taken in so much useful info on board thanks to you and everyone's input great thread.
> 
> my current situation is
> 
> I've been training solid now for 20 years and I'm 40 years old low bf 103kg
> 
> great diet
> 
> 6.4
> 
> have had fair few cycles current one I started was this January which was suppose to be 20 wk test only 600mg a week cycle which I completed and have maintained a cruise of 300mg test e7d up until now just to maintain what I gained which I've held onto.
> 
> So I've been on for a while now stupidly I know 7 months longest I ever been on I normally only do 20wk cycles.
> 
> Now Im not sure weather to come of now and PCT and stay of till next March giving myself a much need good rest till I blast again in March or continue cruising on 300mg till March.
> 
> i have my 3 children so I've no worries with regards to being fertile.
> 
> Health seems ok doing lots cardio, my libido has taken a little hit this last week for the first time ever so gonna get bloods done to give me a better indication on my levels.
> 
> I booked in to donate some blood as I've never done this since I've been cycling.
> 
> just in 2 minds to come of or stay on and it's driving me mad.
> 
> would appreciate any input or pointers.
> 
> Cheers


 Great question, honestly with your history of AAS useage and your age, it's questionable whether PCT is worth it for you. Have you ever recently tested your natural testosterone levels? There's a good chance you are a good candidate for TRT and blast/cruise instead of blast/pct. Your quality of life would be higher as the PCT period can be stressful.

I don't know your body fat % to roughly calculate your lean mass, but depending on how much muscle you carry, you can maintain a lot of muscle on 150-200 mg testosterone per week, especially with HGH at 3-4 IU added in during the cruise period. Also, 300 mg cruise can be fairly safe long-term as long as you are covering all your bases with controlling BP, hemoglobin/HCT, excessive estradiol, doing cardio, and staying lean. There are much worse things you can do for your health like smoking, excess drinking, sedentary lifestyle, narcotics, etc. Health is important but so is quality of life and enjoyment, you need to find a good balance between those two. My go-to recommendation for cruise is the test/HGH combo i mentioned above. When i add 3-4 IU HGH to 150 mg of testosterone it's the same as running 300 mg in terms of muscle maintenance, at least in my experience.

Don't donate blood until you see your lab values, some people don't need to donate blood and dropping your iron/ferritin too low will make you feel like garbage sometimes with decreased endurance and fatigue. Hemoglobin at/over 18 and hematocrit over 52% i would consider donating.


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What would you say the optimal training time is? I usually do 35-45 minutes but this usually includes one bodypart e.g Chest, I see some people spending two hours in the gym and think surely that's too much


 You can get away with all kinds of splits, movements, volumes, intensity as long as you follow progressive overload, calories/diet, rest/recovery.

If that guy is in there 2 hours and his lifts are still going up, he's gaining lean weight, and he's not dragging ass, then it's working for him. This is not the case for many who people who do +2 hours. Many times it's 2 hours of very little effort which leads to very little results. This is when guys add AAS out of desperation and if they are lucky will have a decent response even with subpar training/diet. If you are doing 2 hours and you keep improving, then it works for you.

I only spend about 1 hour myself, but everyone is different. Some guys are trying to gain more mass and add a lot of volume, others are more focused on strength and have higher intensity/shorter workouts, or you can combine the splits with strength/volume days through out the week. It all works as long as you follow the 3 fundamentals.


----------



## Royboss

ElChapo said:


> Great question, honestly with your history of AAS useage and your age, it's questionable whether PCT is worth it for you. Have you ever recently tested your natural testosterone levels? There's a good chance you are a good candidate for TRT and blast/cruise instead of blast/pct. Your quality of life would be higher as the PCT period can be stressful.
> 
> I don't know your body fat % to roughly calculate your lean mass, but depending on how much muscle you carry, you can maintain a lot of muscle on 150-200 mg testosterone per week, especially with HGH at 3-4 IU added in during the cruise period. Also, 300 mg cruise can be fairly safe long-term as long as you are covering all your bases with controlling BP, hemoglobin/HCT, excessive estradiol, doing cardio, and staying lean. There are much worse things you can do for your health like smoking, excess drinking, sedentary lifestyle, narcotics, etc. Health is important but so is quality of life and enjoyment, you need to find a good balance between those two. My go-to recommendation for cruise is the test/HGH combo i mentioned above. When i add 3-4 IU HGH to 150 mg of testosterone it's the same as running 300 mg in terms of muscle maintenance, at least in my experience.
> 
> Don't donate blood until you see your lab values, some people don't need to donate blood and dropping your iron/ferritin too low will make you feel like garbage sometimes with decreased endurance and fatigue. Hemoglobin at/over 18 and hematocrit over 52% i would consider donating.


 Thanks for the quick reply definitely something to think about.

really appreciate your input.

This was my levels before I jumped on in January.

Im gonna order a full hormonal blood panel test this evening from medicheck to see where my levels are now whilst I'm cruising

And I'm guessing that will help with my decision once I see where my markers are etc.

once I get the results I'll come back to you if that's ok ? cause I'm sure you can give me a better opinion / advice once my results come back.

I'll hold of donating like you said till I get my new results back.

Thanks again buddy


----------



## ElChapo

Royboss said:


> Thanks for the quick reply definitely something to think about.
> 
> really appreciate your input.
> 
> This was my levels before I jumped on in January.
> 
> Im gonna order a full hormonal blood panel test this evening from medicheck to see where my levels are now whilst I'm cruising
> 
> And I'm guessing that will help with my decision once I see where my markers are etc.
> 
> once I get the results I'll come back to you if that's ok ? cause I'm sure you can give me a better opinion / advice once my results come back.
> 
> I'll hold of donating like you said till I get my new results back.
> 
> Thanks again buddy
> 
> View attachment 175077


 Of course, keep me posted.

20 nmol/L is a good level for a 40 year old. Some people do feel better at higher levels, this depends on your genetic sensitivity to androgens. Some feel excellent at 20 nmol/L but others need to be higher.

Did you take any PCT/clomid/nolvadex within 12 weeks of that 20 nmol/L result? If not, then you are a good candidate for PCT.


----------



## Royboss

ElChapo said:


> Great question, honestly with your history of AAS useage and your age, it's questionable whether PCT is worth it for you. Have you ever recently tested your natural testosterone levels? There's a good chance you are a good candidate for TRT and blast/cruise instead of blast/pct. Your quality of life would be higher as the PCT period can be stressful.
> 
> I don't know your body fat % to roughly calculate your lean mass, but depending on how much muscle you carry, you can maintain a lot of muscle on 150-200 mg testosterone per week, especially with HGH at 3-4 IU added in during the cruise period. Also, 300 mg cruise can be fairly safe long-term as long as you are covering all your bases with controlling BP, hemoglobin/HCT, excessive estradiol, doing cardio, and staying lean. There are much worse things you can do for your health like smoking, excess drinking, sedentary lifestyle, narcotics, etc. Health is important but so is quality of life and enjoyment, you need to find a good balance between those two. My go-to recommendation for cruise is the test/HGH combo i mentioned above. When i add 3-4 IU HGH to 150 mg of testosterone it's the same as running 300 mg in terms of muscle maintenance, at least in my experience.
> 
> Don't donate blood until you see your lab values, some people don't need to donate blood and dropping your iron/ferritin too low will make you feel like garbage sometimes with decreased endurance and fatigue. Hemoglobin at/over 18 and hematocrit over 52% i would consider donating.


 Thanks for the quick reply definitely something to think about.

really appreciate your input.

This was my levels before I jumped on in January.

Im gonna order a full hormonal



ElChapo said:


> Of course, keep me posted.
> 
> 20 nmol/L is a good level for a 40 year old. Some people do feel better at higher levels, this depends on your genetic sensitivity to androgens. Some feel excellent at 20 nmol/L but others need to be higher.
> 
> Did you take any PCT/clomid/nolvadex within 12 weeks of that 20 nmol/L result? If not, then you are a good candidate for PCT.


 I completed a standard clomid /nolvadex pct 4 months prior to that blood test bud.

I only ever run test cycles 600-800mg a week max with a 4 -8 week oral kicker.

If I ever decide to curise I do so on 300mg test e7d No HCG.

just clomid and nolva for Pct always see great results from this alone so I stick with it ?

had a bad experience with deca dick in my younger days so stay away lol.


----------



## ElChapo

Royboss said:


> Thanks for the quick reply definitely something to think about.
> 
> really appreciate your input.
> 
> This was my levels before I jumped on in January.
> 
> Im gonna order a full hormonal
> 
> I completed a standard clomid /nolvadex pct 4 months prior to that blood test bud.
> 
> I only ever run test cycles 600-800mg a week max with a 4 -8 week oral kicker.
> 
> If I ever decide to curise I do so on 300mg test e7d No HCG.
> 
> just clomid and nolva for Pct always see great results from this alone so I stick with it ?
> 
> had a bad experience with deca dick in my younger days so stay away lol.


 Very good results, you are a good candidate for blast/PCT since you have solid levels for a 40 year old male.

Stick with it, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Deca/Tren will cook your balls/fertility/testosterone production.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo what do you think of celery seed extract on cycle to lower blood pressure?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo what do you think of celery seed extract on cycle to lower blood pressure?


 Generally, i only recommend trying to lower BP only cycle if it's over 160/100 mmhg, and usually recommend beta blockers at low doses. They very easy to find, super cheap and extremely effective. Off-cycle BP should be no higher than 140/90 mmhg and that's already too high for my comfort. It's best to be 130/85 and under long-term. I've noticed that dropping to very low body fat levels (7-10%) has a very good effect on BP for a lot of people.

Supplements are hit or miss, you don't want to waste your time with a supplement that may or many not work when you could take a medication that is safe, guaranteed to works and tons of studies to back up it's effects/safety/side/etc. Especially when trying to fix something like BP.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Generally, i only recommend trying to lower BP only cycle if it's over 160/100 mmhg, and usually recommend beta blockers at low doses. They very easy to find, super cheap and extremely effective. Off-cycle BP should be no higher than 140/90 mmhg and that's already too high for my comfort. It's best to be 130/85 and under long-term. I've noticed that dropping to very low body fat levels (7-10%) has a very good effect on BP for a lot of people.
> 
> Supplements are hit or miss, you don't want to waste your time with a supplement that may or many not work when you could take a medication that is safe, guaranteed to works and tons of studies to back up it's effects/safety/side/etc. Especially when trying to fix something like BP.


 thanks

I'm lean and low weight , but as soon as I take an oral like Tbol even at 12.5mg I get increase in blood pressure which is normal but I also get lethargy , if I don't take oral and on test 250mg I have 125-130/6 and 60-65/min which is good , on tbol at 50mg I got to 155/8 and 85-90 at rest

other question , I ask a lot but I'm really interested and want to understand everything :

-steroids cause fluid imbalance , for exemple of Tbol it may increase blood pressure with fluid imbalance , does it mean we need to consume less salt and more potassium ? I do eat 3-4 bananas a day which contains potassium and I don't over consume salt neither and eat healthy everyday .

How could someone manage this 'fluid imbalance' thing correctly on AAS?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> thanks
> 
> I'm lean and low weight , but as soon as I take an oral like Tbol even at 12.5mg I get increase in blood pressure which is normal but I also get lethargy , if I don't take oral and on test 250mg I have 125-130/6 and 60-65/min which is good , on tbol at 50mg I got to 155/8 and 85-90 at rest
> 
> other question , I ask a lot but I'm really interested and want to understand everything :
> 
> -steroids cause fluid imbalance , for exemple of Tbol it may increase blood pressure with fluid imbalance , does it mean we need to consume less salt and more potassium ? I do eat 3-4 bananas a day which contains potassium and I don't over consume salt neither and eat healthy everyday .
> 
> How could someone manage this 'fluid imbalance' thing correctly on AAS?


 It's just part of the game, some people take diuretics for it which is overkill in my opinion. Short esters tend to cause less fluid retention.

Winstrol is also good at drying you out and reducing fluid, it's used in medicine as a treatment for hereditary angioedema.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo some people take their oral dose 2-3 hours pre bed to avoid the sides/lethargy they get after taking the oral.

Is it smart or stupid ? since taking pre workout seems a better idea


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo some people take their oral dose 2-3 hours pre bed to avoid the sides/lethargy they get after taking the oral.
> 
> Is it smart or stupid ? since taking pre workout seems a better idea


 It doesn't make a big difference at the end of the day either way.

People over estimate the whole pre-workout timing for everything. Growth happens during the REST/RECOVERY period. So it doesn't matter. A strong pre-workout will have a much more significant effect on increasing workout intensity than trying to time AAS pre-workout.

I don't know if the sides would be avoided since it seems to last all day, at least in my experience with superdrol. It's worth a shot but no clue if it would actually help. I just drink a lot of coffee and push through.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@El Chapo is it a big deal if ones natural gh output during sleep becomes suppressed? I was considering taking my gh 3-4 hours before bed to induce sleepiness to help fall asleep, instead of taking it right before going to bed


----------



## Djibril

Hello elchapo

I would like to thank you one more time for your precious help in the topic.

Just wanted to ask you take a look at my lab test results. How do they look. Im 29, getting everything ready for TRT, a doc here wants to start me on nebido which i wont do, ill try changing his opinion or start doing it on my own with test E i can find easily pharm grade.

For fertility purposes 500iu twice or 3 times a week seems ok ?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @El Chapo is it a big deal if ones natural gh output during sleep becomes suppressed? I was considering taking my gh 3-4 hours before bed to induce sleepiness to help fall asleep, instead of taking it right before going to bed


 It actually takes about 3-4 hours for levels to peak, and HGH will suppress endogenous release for over 24 hours after injection, So if you don't want to supress your nighttime release, you would actually take it at night. Taking it in the morning will actually suppress your natural release.

In the long-run, i believe the high IGF-1 levels cause negative feedback and shut down most endogenous production 24/7 anyways. It doesn't matter.

Expect 100 ng/mL IGF-1 increase per 1 IU of real HGH. Your own IGF-1 will be shutdown regardless. So a guy with a baseline IGF-1 of 150 and a guy with baseline of 300 would still expect 400 ng/mL IGF-1 from 4 IU of HGH, most of the time. This is from reading tons of blood work from different people and patients.

I actually take it about 3-4 hours before bed myself as it makes me too sleepy in the daytime. This also coincides with the natural way your body uses HGH, you get the highest spike about 2 hours after falling asleep, so dosing 3-4 hours before bed is the most natural way to take HGH. They compared bedtime vs morning dosing and found that only the bedtime dosing mimicked the natural affect of HGH in terms of Free Fatty acid content in the blood during sleep, so the body is meant to utilize HGH the most while you are sleeping.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Hello elchapo
> 
> I would like to thank you one more time for your precious help in the topic.
> 
> Just wanted to ask you take a look at my lab test results. How do they look. Im 29, getting everything ready for TRT, a doc here wants to start me on nebido which i wont do, ill try changing his opinion or start doing it on my own with test E i can find easily pharm grade.
> 
> For fertility purposes 500iu twice or 3 times a week seems ok ?
> View attachment 175155


 Good stuff, nebido isn't bad as long as you can take it at least E3D to 2 weeks max frequency. 8-12 weeks is ridiculous, you might as well take the pellets at this point.

Yeah, your free test is definitely down there. Your E2 will probably hit the 40s-60s when you add TRT so don't be alarmed and don't try to lower the levels. The E2 is important to get the mood, libido, cognitive, and body composition effects of testosterone. If you get bad E2 symptoms, consider 0.5 mg adex per week, but hold off on that. It's best not to take AI if you don't need it.

You technically have subclinical hypothyroidism. Keep an eye on that every year. It can get gradually worse. I had a patient with your exact same levels and by 2-3 years his TSH had gone from 3 to 5 and he developed hypo symptoms. Testosterone can make thyroid function decline due to it's effect on thyroid binding globulins, these are proteins that bind to thyroid hormone.

For fertility, 1,500 IU HCG is the optimal dose. A good protocol is Test E+750 IU HCG x 2 per week. Some guys only need 1,000 IU, but 500 is too low most of the time. 1,500 is the sweet spot.

A good starting dose of testosterone is 75 mg x 2 per week. The goal for you is 7-12 ng/mL total testosterone and you Free T should come up proportionally with that. Keep an eye on your hematocrit once you get on testosterone for a while as some guys get very thick blood, most don't have to worry about it though. You want HCT at 52% max most of the time.


----------



## Djibril

Thank you very much for your reply.

The thyroid i was thinking of starting TRT and take a full thyroid panel 6 months after that to see where im sitting. I have had higher TSH levels in the past and hypo runs in my family so ive been testing it every year.

I was thinking 150mg a week too without Ai. Would you start the hcg right away or should i wait a couple months. I will have an Ai on hand but will not use it unless needed. I would guess the test dose alone wouldnt increase E2 very much but maybe hcg bring it up a bit, bloodwork will show i guess.

I was thinking 3 times a week dosing but would rather pin one less and do twice a week IM. Been reading a lot on subq lately but will start on im and see how i do.

One last question, given that i source norma test E that comes in 1ml 250mg ampoules would you backload insulin syringes and store them or better preload with a bigger syringe store them and come pin time just replace the needle and pin


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Thank you very much for your reply.
> 
> The thyroid i was thinking of starting TRT and take a full thyroid panel 6 months after that to see where im sitting. I have had higher TSH levels in the past and hypo runs in my family so ive been testing it every year.
> 
> I was thinking 150mg a week too without Ai. Would you start the hcg right away or should i wait a couple months. I will have an Ai on hand but will not use it unless needed. I would guess the test dose alone wouldnt increase E2 very much but maybe hcg bring it up a bit, bloodwork will show i guess.
> 
> I was thinking 3 times a week dosing but would rather pin one less and do twice a week IM. Been reading a lot on subq lately but will start on im and see how i do.
> 
> One last question, given that i source norma test E that comes in 1ml 250mg ampoules would you backload insulin syringes and store them or better preload with a bigger syringe store them and come pin time just replace the needle and pin


 Yeah, go by symptoms and labs. Most common symptoms are fatigue (hard to get up in the morning/crashing in the afternoon), and sensitivity to cold. Other symptoms include puffy face and constipation.

HCG should start right away, that way the leydig cells never get a chance to atrophy. Test your levels after 4-6 weeks after dose changes or initial start of TRT. Since your test/e2 is in the 4s/20s, bringing you up to 8/40s or 10/60s is probably what will happen. Many people get scared when they see E2 over the range but high/normal E2 is linked to better libido/mood and body composition changes than low/normal E2. The E2 range was developed with data from a lot of men with average testosterone of 500 ng/dL or 5 ng/mL.

x 2 per week dosing is already extremely stable with enanthate. There is no need for a higher frequency. x 2 per week is the sweet spot. Some people can get away with x 1 per week, but some men metabolize it too fast and need x 2 per week. This gives you a lower spike and higher trough.

Subq is garbage, don't listen to that non-sense. There's a reason it says "intramuscular only". Subq leads to much higher risk of PIP and poorer absorption/bioavailability. It's a huge fad right now. Don't fall for it.

The way i do it, i use a 3-5 cc syringe with a 21 gauge needle to draw 1-2 weeks worth of oil from the vial. I then grab 1-2 weeks worth of insulin needle/syringes (the ones that come together) 29 gauge/1 cc size/volume. I pop the plunger out, pour the oil in from the 3-5 cc syringe and fill all the insulin syringes to where i want them. I then store 1-2 weeks worth. Whenever i need to inject, i just grab an alcohol swab and the pre-filled syringe. Super convenient and effective. Saves a ton of time, i just take 10 minutes every 1-2 weeks to pre-fill what i need.


----------



## Djibril

Thank you so much for all the help. You covered all my points.

The preloading seems to be the most practical. What you do when you run other compounds as well? Preload them all as well just using bigger needles, guess the 1cc might not be enough at times.

I will eventually do a light blast as well but settle in first to see what the trt doses do to my bloodwork so i know whats the baseline i will be following year round.

Once i start the hcg and test should i keep appart from the ai also some ralo? Or nolva in case im an extreme converter so i use the serm until i settle the ai dose


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Thank you so much for all the help. You covered all my points.
> 
> The preloading seems to be the most practical. What you do when you run other compounds as well? Preload them all as well just using bigger needles, guess the 1cc might not be enough at times.
> 
> I will eventually do a light blast as well but settle in first to see what the trt doses do to my bloodwork so i know whats the baseline i will be following year round.
> 
> Once i start the hcg and test should i keep appart from the ai also some ralo? Or nolva in case im an extreme converter so i use the serm until i settle the ai dose


 Yeah, you can mix multiple compounds and pre-load them. So let's say you run 500 mg/500 mg Test E/Tren E, mix them into the 3-5 CC syringes and flip it up/down to mix the oils, then pre-fill the insulin syringes as needed. Otherwise, if you are taking high enough doses, you will have to do the old school 25 gauge/3 cc injections. You could also pre-mix these though for convenience.

Yes, it's a good idea to keep ralox or nolva on hand in case you get some gyno formation. You can run 60 mg ralox or 20 mg nolva for 6-12 weeks which will reverse gyno +90% of the time. It's great that so many people know this now, since people used to destroy their E2 with letrozole and put themselves through hell and STILL not cure the gyno.


----------



## Djibril

The help i get in this thread is amazing. I just found the search button can be used specifically for this thread too so very easy to find all the needed info.

I read in some pages you recommending ralo for pubertal gyno. Given that i was a fatty kid and have puberty gyno and very puffy nips would it be worth using ralo for 12 weeks along with the trt? Any expected side effect?lipids,etc or nothing to be worried for that period of time


----------



## mihawk_swkraths

Hello elchapo! how a blood inflammation can be are there any symptoms? does a sh1t roid from a UGL can cause a blood inflammation?
this benzyl benzoate or the "grapeseed oil" can cause something in that case?
what's the blood tests should do someone to check his blood for an inflammation?
thanks !!


----------



## IronJohnDoe

@ElChapo

I wanted to understand what dose and timing of Aromasin when cycling with Dbol.

I'm not gyno prone I don't aromatase much, normally if I stay on 300mg of Test only I don't need an AI.

I've used Test/Deca/EQ in past and I was using 25mg of Aromasin Eod dropped at 12,5mg eod after few weeks and ultimately and 6,25mg eod

I've tried in past Tren, Superdrol, Anadrol (not all at the same time) and I've never had any gyno signs and always managed oestrogens in the above way I written.

Now I've read any sort of answer on forums about Dbol and AI dosages and I'm a little confused.

Now, considering that I'm not gyno prone (in past I've used silly doses of Test close to a gram a week without AI and all I got was some puffy nipples that went back to normal after lowering the dose) and I'm starting a:

300mg of Test ew

400mg of Deca ew

30mg of Dbol ed

25mg of Proviron ed

What would be the advisable Aromasin route?

I've been cruising on 300mg of Test E every 2 weeks and I've managed to keep my gains so far and normal body function.

I am aware that many people in here would laugh about my doses but

a. I'm very sensible to doses so I don't need more if I react to that

b. I firmly believe nowadays in the less the better, I prefer less to non existent sides (as I'm getting since a couple of years ago I started low doses ) and also that steroids should be the icing on: Nutrition/Rest/Progressive overload and not the main factor.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo what's your thoughts on rotating daily through thermogenics during a cutting phase

for instance clenbuterol pre workout on training days (as an example monday, wednesday, friday) and yohimbine pre fasted cardio on non training days

im particularly susceptible to the sides of yohimbine so combining any other stimulant is completely out of the question however i do find it effective as a compound


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> The help i get in this thread is amazing. I just found the search button can be used specifically for this thread too so very easy to find all the needed info.
> 
> I read in some pages you recommending ralo for pubertal gyno. Given that i was a fatty kid and have puberty gyno and very puffy nips would it be worth using ralo for 12 weeks along with the trt? Any expected side effect?lipids,etc or nothing to be worried for that period of time


 Yes, 12 weeks will reverse gyno +90% of the time. It will permanently reverse it unless the cause of the gyno comes back. So if high E2/IGF-1/tren/deca caused the gyno, it can come back. I have reversed it myself probably +6 times and many friends and members here have had amazing results. The key is to be patient and consistent. Use it daily for 8-12 weeks minimum for best results.

Pubertal gyno happens due to high levels of IGF-1 and testosterone to E2 conversion during adolescence. Some guys will notice gyno flare ups when adding HGH due to the IGF-1. This actually happens to me with HGH use.

You can actually take nolvadex/raloxifene for up to 6 month-1 year, but most people will see complete resolution/most results at 12 weeks.

Fun fact: Taking Raloxifene with fatty meal can increase absorption by up to 30%. I don't think this happens with nolvadex though.

Ralox side effects: Almost none. It would be rare to even notice you are taking it most of the time.

Nolvadex side effects: Common sides are brain fog, mood/libido issues. More sides than ralox and slightly less effective but much easier to source and find.


----------



## ElChapo

mihawk_swkraths said:


> Hello elchapo! how a blood inflammation can be are there any symptoms? does a sh1t roid from a UGL can cause a blood inflammation?
> this benzyl benzoate or the "grapeseed oil" can cause something in that case?
> what's the blood tests should do someone to check his blood for an inflammation?
> thanks !!


 I've seen no real evidence that there would be a significant effect on overall inflammation from taking BA/BB as dosed in properly brewed AAS. Many UGLs actually follow the exact same recipes as pharma grade.

Different tests for inflammation are erythrocyte sedimentation rate, CRP levels, homocysteine, and there are others.

"Dirty" UGL AAS or overdosed oils can cause a localized inflammatory response at the injection site. It's hard to tell sometimes whether it's an infection or just PIP from high concentration as they have the same exact symptoms. Most of the time it's just high concentration or subq leak.


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I wanted to understand what dose and timing of Aromasin when cycling with Dbol.
> 
> I'm not gyno prone I don't aromatase much, normally if I stay on 300mg of Test only I don't need an AI.
> 
> I've used Test/Deca/EQ in past and I was using 25mg of Aromasin Eod dropped at 12,5mg eod after few weeks and ultimately and 6,25mg eod
> 
> I've tried in past Tren, Superdrol, Anadrol (not all at the same time) and I've never had any gyno signs and always managed oestrogens in the above way I written.
> 
> Now I've read any sort of answer on forums about Dbol and AI dosages and I'm a little confused.
> 
> Now, considering that I'm not gyno prone (in past I've used silly doses of Test close to a gram a week without AI and all I got was some puffy nipples that went back to normal after lowering the dose) and I'm starting a:
> 
> 300mg of Test ew
> 
> 400mg of Deca ew
> 
> 30mg of Dbol ed
> 
> 25mg of Proviron ed
> 
> What would be the advisable Aromasin route?
> 
> I've been cruising on 300mg of Test E every 2 weeks and I've managed to keep my gains so far and normal body function.
> 
> I am aware that many people in here would laugh about my doses but
> 
> a. I'm very sensible to doses so I don't need more if I react to that
> 
> b. I firmly believe nowadays in the less the better, I prefer less to non existent sides (as I'm getting since a couple of years ago I started low doses ) and also that steroids should be the icing on: Nutrition/Rest/Progressive overload and not the main factor.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 You have great genes for gyno prevention. It's very complicated to set a dose, especially for a stack like the one you are propsing since test/deca will aromatize at completely different rates and so will the dbol.

A prophylactic or preventative dose for a stack like that would be anywhere from 50-100 mg aromasin per week but it's very hard to tell because some guys aromatize like crazy and other barely do at all. You could have extremely high E2 levels but due to genetic receptor differences, you will not get gyno. Other guys will get gyno with high/normal E2 because their estrogenic breast receptors are very sensitive to it. 50-100 mg per week could be just right, not enough or too little. The only way to tell would be to get lab work mid-cycle. That's the only way to know for sure because of all the variables i just mentioned.

Your doses are fine and a solid stack. Everyone is different, doses will vary due to genetic response to AAS and metabolism, experience level, muscularity, etc. One guy can get the same effect from 300 mg as another guy who needs 1 gram to get the same response just from the genetic difference. This is what can separate pros from amateurs, and pros from elite/world class pros (on top of hard work, dedication, and smart training/nutrition)

100%, steroids are the limit breaker and icing on top. The fundamentals+genetics will always drive most of the gains and results.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo what's your thoughts on rotating daily through thermogenics during a cutting phase
> 
> for instance clenbuterol pre workout on training days (as an example monday, wednesday, friday) and yohimbine pre fasted cardio on non training days
> 
> im particularly susceptible to the sides of yohimbine so combining any other stimulant is completely out of the question however i do find it effective as a compound


 Myself and @ghost.recon don't believe in any benefit from cycling clenbuterol for instance as was common in the past.

but what you are proposing could actually work pretty well, grant it, yohimbine metabolites actually stick around much longer than the yohimbine itself and can reach a saturation point/stacking effect. I don't see an issue with cycling the compounds, but i'm a fan of keeping things as simple as possible and putting 300% effort into the things we know matter the most.

I also love yohimbine, really cool compound. Powerful stimulant, increases libido/erections, and melts fat with good diet/cardio stack, especially stubborn deposits.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

ElChapo said:


> You have great genes for gyno prevention. It's very complicated to set a dose, especially for a stack like the one you are propsing since test/deca will aromatize at completely different rates and so will the dbol.
> 
> A prophylactic or preventative dose for a stack like that would be anywhere from 50-100 mg aromasin per week but it's very hard to tell because some guys aromatize like crazy and other barely do at all. You could have extremely high E2 levels but due to genetic receptor differences, you will not get gyno. Other guys will get gyno with high/normal E2 because their estrogenic breast receptors are very sensitive to it. 50-100 mg per week could be just right, not enough or too little. The only way to tell would be to get lab work mid-cycle. That's the only way to know for sure because of all the variables i just mentioned.
> 
> Your doses are fine and a solid stack. Everyone is different, doses will vary due to genetic response to AAS and metabolism, experience level, muscularity, etc. One guy can get the same effect from 300 mg as another guy who needs 1 gram to get the same response just from the genetic difference. This is what can separate pros from amateurs, and pros from elite/world class pros (on top of hard work, dedication, and smart training/nutrition)
> 
> 100%, steroids are the limit breaker and icing on top. The fundamentals+genetics will always drive most of the gains and results.


 As usual a detailed and knowledgeable answer, yes I think I barely aromates as in past I had mid cycle exams and I've been needing to reduce the Aromasin drastically, I think I'll stick with 25mg twice a week on pinning days (I know that I could easily do 2ml injection in one go but I find better split it, less possibility of scar tissue and also as I've mentioned I am very sensitive with doses)

Then mid cycle I'll get some tests to see how to adjust the AI

Thanks a lot as always!


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Yes, 12 weeks will reverse gyno +90% of the time. It will permanently reverse it unless the cause of the gyno comes back. So if high E2/IGF-1/tren/deca caused the gyno, it can come back. I have reversed it myself probably +6 times and many friends and members here have had amazing results. The key is to be patient and consistent. Use it daily for 8-12 weeks minimum for best results.
> 
> Pubertal gyno happens due to high levels of IGF-1 and testosterone to E2 conversion during adolescence. Some guys will notice gyno flare ups when adding HGH due to the IGF-1. This actually happens to me with HGH use.
> 
> You can actually take nolvadex/raloxifene for up to 6 month-1 year, but most people will see complete resolution/most results at 12 weeks.
> 
> Fun fact: Taking Raloxifene with fatty meal can increase absorption by up to 30%. I don't think this happens with nolvadex though.
> 
> Ralox side effects: Almost none. It would be rare to even notice you are taking it most of the time.
> 
> Nolvadex side effects: Common sides are brain fog, mood/libido issues. More sides than ralox and slightly less effective but much easier to source and find.tl


 Thank you very much.

I think i will try ralo for 12 weeks. The cause of mine could probably be the E2. I was an extremely fatty kid, weighted 130kilos at 14 y old even though i was already 1.80+


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Myself and @ghost.recon don't believe in any benefit from cycling clenbuterol for instance as was common in the past.
> 
> but what you are proposing could actually work pretty well, grant it, yohimbine metabolites actually stick around much longer than the yohimbine itself and can reach a saturation point/stacking effect. I don't see an issue with cycling the compounds, but i'm a fan of keeping things as simple as possible and putting 300% effort into the things we know matter the most.
> 
> I also love yohimbine, really cool compound. Powerful stimulant, increases libido/erections, and melts fat with good diet/cardio stack, especially stubborn deposits.


 yea i was thinking more from a not stacking two stimulants perspective rather than the clenbuterol tolerance meme

20mg of yohimbine is ALL i can handle stim wise, if i so much as add in 50mg of caffeine by way of a very small coffee im a jittery out of breath mess and im a pretty stim hardy individual on the whole just extremely susceptible to yohimbines stimulatory effect for some reason

i also feel clen gives me a strength boost, ive heard this is down to it making muscle contract harder 
either way i get a notable strength boost when i add in clen


----------



## ElChapo

IronJohnDoe said:


> As usual a detailed and knowledgeable answer, yes I think I barely aromates as in past I had mid cycle exams and I've been needing to reduce the Aromasin drastically, I think I'll stick with 25mg twice a week on pinning days (I know that I could easily do 2ml injection in one go but I find better split it, less possibility of scar tissue and also as I've mentioned I am very sensitive with doses)
> 
> Then mid cycle I'll get some tests to see how to adjust the AI
> 
> Thanks a lot as always!


 Good stuff and i agree with everything you said.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> yea i was thinking more from a not stacking two stimulants perspective rather than the clenbuterol tolerance meme
> 
> 20mg of yohimbine is ALL i can handle stim wise, if i so much as add in 50mg of caffeine by way of a very small coffee im a jittery out of breath mess and im a pretty stim hardy individual on the whole just extremely susceptible to yohimbines stimulatory effect for some reason
> 
> i also feel clen gives me a strength boost, ive heard this is down to it making muscle contract harder
> either way i get a notable strength boost when i add in clen


 +20 mg is a moderate dose but standard for larger individuals. A lot of guys have good results with 14-16 mg daily. It will vary depending on how quickly your body breaks down yohimbine and how sensitive you are to it's effects at the receptor level in the brain/CNS. Yohimbine is an alpha 2 adrenergic receptor blocker where as clen/ephedrine are beta adrenergic receptor activators, so two different mechanisms of action could explain your response. A little guy with strong tolerance might need 20 mg and a big guy who is sensitive might only handle 12 mg at first. A tolerance can develop to it's effect though.

Stimulants can make you stronger by activating the CNS, increases alertness/blood flow to muscles/contraction strength. I always tell people who ask about pre-workout AAS that a strong stimulant will be many times more potent at increasing strength than any pre-workout AAS. I know the first time i took EC stack, i felt superhuman energy and strength.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26400207

"Indeed high-dose β-agonists (∼0.1 μm) enhance SR Ca(2+) -release rates, maximum voluntary contraction strength and peak Wingate power in trained humans. The combined findings can explain how adrenaline/β-agonists influence muscle performance during exercise/stress in humans."


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Exactly, and being lean year round and having good HDL levels also help.
> 
> Dallas McCarver already had extensive atherosclerosis and he was still in his 20s. There are case studies showing atherosclerosis in trenbolone users.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4614617/ : example of a 23 year old with arterial stenosis from trenbolone use.
> 
> I believe your theory would be true, someone who is otherwise healthy, fit and active but using AAS can be relatively healthy. I like using Arnold and Stallone as example, they aged very well for having a lifetime use of AAS.


 Im reading through the pages and im quoting something very old though i have a question.

Regarding calficilation of the arteries-atheroslicoris given that we mantain a healthy diet, dardio, good BP levels, good hdl nevels and hematocrit lower then 52 year round, if you could make a list, what are the safest and worst compounds for that matter, i would guess Tren being one of the worst.

And are there any supplements that help prevent Atherosclirosis at some extent?

With the use i plan on doing which is not by any menas heavy, thats the health marker that i want to pay more attention to.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Im reading through the pages and im quoting something very old though i have a question.
> 
> Regarding calficilation of the arteries-atheroslicoris given that we mantain a healthy diet, dardio, good BP levels, good hdl nevels and hematocrit lower then 52 year round, if you could make a list, what are the safest and worst compounds for that matter, i would guess Tren being one of the worst.
> 
> And are there any supplements that help prevent Atherosclirosis at some extent?
> 
> With the use i plan on doing which is not by any menas heavy, thats the health marker that i want to pay more attention to.


 Tren/winstrol are likely the worst since they cook HDL levels hard and fast.

The two best things proven by science are cardio/Vitamin K2 (MK-7 at 100-200 mcg daily with a fatty meal). There' some evidence that Vitamin K2 might even reverse some plaque.

High hematocrit/BP can increase atherosclerosis, high HDL has an anti-atherogenic effect.

The ideal way of bodybuilding in a "health way" is to cycle a few times per year, then cruise on reasonable doses/PCT and keep your blood markers good, doing regular cardio.

Ideally, you will build the physique you want and maintain that forever on cruise/PCT but people are on the "hedonic treadmill" and are never satisfied with how they look no matter what. If you have aspirations of freak mass or being a pro, then all bets are off. Many guys don't want to be huge or freaky, they just want a decent amount of muscle and this is achievable without abusing steroids for decades, but most guys don't know how to train/eat properly and use steroids as a crutch. That's why i'm always pushing the 1. Progressive overload 2. Nutrition (calories) 3. Rest/Recovery.


----------



## mihawk_swkraths

Question : can an injectable testosterone increase prolactin levels? and if yes is this for sure? or it can be a testosterone bastardized with NPP or EQ cause of low price to make'em 
Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

mihawk_swkraths said:


> Question : can an injectable testosterone increase prolactin levels? and if yes is this for sure? or it can be a testosterone bastardized with NPP or EQ cause of low price to make'em
> Thanks


 It's possible, there's actually a case study and review on this phenomenon.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15829128

"We hypothesize that the exogenous testosterone was aromatized to oestradiol, which stimulated the release of PRL by the anterior pituitary. This was supported by the increase in oestradiol levels after testosterone replacement, although statistical significance was not achieved due to the availability of only a few data points. This case highlights the need to be aware of testosterone-replacement-induced hyperprolactinaemia, an under-recognized complication of androgen replacement in this setting."

I do notice top of the range or high prolactin in some TRT patient's and always wondered if there was a link.


----------



## drwae

@ElChapo is it safe to inject 0.1-0.2 ml of air sub-q in the stomach along with HCG, I don't have LDS syringes at the moment


----------



## ElChapo

drwae said:


> @ElChapo is it safe to inject 0.1-0.2 ml of air sub-q in the stomach along with HCG, I don't have LDS syringes at the moment


 Yes, according to some research, it would take 10 mL of air injected DIRECTLY into a vein to even have a chance of causing a problem.

Going IM/SQ a lot of air can cause a temporary bubble that will be absorbed or pushed out on it's own. Completely harmless.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I love creatine but it seems to make my hair loss much more intense when I'm on test..

I know creatine make your body converts more test to DHT , so if someone is on high test dosage , it d mean that DHT level get through the roof right?

I just stopped today for this reason , I was using it for it's IGF-1 increase property mostly.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I love creatine but it seems to make my hair loss much more intense when I'm on test..
> 
> I know creatine make your body converts more test to DHT , so if someone is on high test dosage , it d mean that DHT level get through the roof right?
> 
> I just stopped today for this reason , I was using it for it's IGF-1 increase property mostly.


 Maybe, no telling how high DHT would go. I doubt it would be an extreme supra physiological increase.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Tren/winstrol are likely the worst since they cook HDL levels hard and fast.
> 
> The two best things proven by science are cardio/Vitamin K2 (MK-7 at 100-200 mcg daily with a fatty meal). There' some evidence that Vitamin K2 might even reverse some plaque.
> 
> High hematocrit/BP can increase atherosclerosis, high HDL has an anti-atherogenic effect.
> 
> The ideal way of bodybuilding in a "health way" is to cycle a few times per year, then cruise on reasonable doses/PCT and keep your blood markers good, doing regular cardio.
> 
> Ideally, you will build the physique you want and maintain that forever on cruise/PCT but people are on the "hedonic treadmill" and are never satisfied with how they look no matter what. If you have aspirations of freak mass or being a pro, then all bets are off. Many guys don't want to be huge or freaky, they just want a decent amount of muscle and this is achievable without abusing steroids for decades, but most guys don't know how to train/eat properly and use steroids as a crutch. That's why i'm always pushing the 1. Progressive overload 2. Nutrition (calories) 3. Rest/Recovery.


 Picking up on above, I've a holiday in ten weeks as as before I commented on starting a bulk cut or just a kewb bulk.

I settled on 1g test 50-100mg for 9weeks leading up to the holiday, I'm enjoying training and haven't a care in the world.

What supps, vits or suggestions are there to recover my hdl from essentially a Winstrol annihilation? Lol. I'm not drinking between now and hols, dropping the winny a week out, doing 5 miles a day sscv with sirk but adding 3 x 35min hugger intensity cardio for the nine weeks, avoiding junk floors, using strom support max and drinking loads of water.

Also, I planned to cruise on test prop 200-300mg from Dec, Jan Feb, continuing to eat and train though as if it was a blast, but not excessive Xmas, the odd deload week, proper redt and slightly more cardio.

"health wise" what would you change, when would you take bloods between nor and say April (multiple times I assume) and any other info you could add?

Thanks. Stewart


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Picking up on above, I've a holiday in ten weeks as as before I commented on starting a bulk cut or just a kewb bulk.
> 
> I settled on 1g test 50-100mg for 9weeks leading up to the holiday, I'm enjoying training and haven't a care in the world.
> 
> What supps, vits or suggestions are there to recover my hdl from essentially a Winstrol annihilation? Lol. I'm not drinking between now and hols, dropping the winny a week out, doing 5 miles a day sscv with sirk but adding 3 x 35min hugger intensity cardio for the nine weeks, avoiding junk floors, using strom support max and drinking loads of water.
> 
> Also, I planned to cruise on test prop 200-300mg from Dec, Jan Feb, continuing to eat and train though as if it was a blast, but not excessive Xmas, the odd deload week, proper redt and slightly more cardio.
> 
> "health wise" what would you change, when would you take bloods between nor and say April (multiple times I assume) and any other info you could add?
> 
> Thanks. Stewart


 Sounds good, HDL will recover in 6-8 weeks. It's very low HDL for long periods of time (Years) that can possibly promote atherosclerosis/plaque. Vitamin K2 may have a protective effect and even reverse atherosclerosis. It increase carboxylation of proteins that keep calcium out of the blood and puts it into bone.

Cardio is your best friend. Best to not getting any fatter than 15%. Keep BP/HCT in range, no higher than 150/100 preferably and <53%. You can check the BP through out the cycle and HCT once you come off and switch to your cruise. These things won't kill you short-term unless they get crazy high ( BP over 160/100 mmhg, HCT <55%)


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo cheers,

BP is averaging at 134/70 heart rate 65bpm over the six months or so that I've had the machine (omeron, decent spec etc) which is lower than the 148-155/75-80 hr 86bpm from dece last year. Changes are just more water, more and more walking so far.

I'll get a medicheck done mid December then every three months and get feedback on what's what. I was the guy who had/has athletes heart and got an mri as the consultant was curious more than anything, I've no symptoms to be alarmed about as far as heart issues after a scare six years ago. So I'll come back and let you know the outcome and that of the bloods also.

As always, thank you for the swift and knowledgeable reply. Very much appreciated.


----------



## Jordan08

How much of Iron as Ferrous Bisglycinate do you recommend for general well being?


----------



## Djibril

I would like to ask you 2 questions:

-I was recently reading about Nattokinase supplementation for Cardiovascular health and even Lowering Blood pressure specially for pre-hypertensive individuals, if you know about it, whats your opinion?

-Second question is about Iron levels while being on TRT for many years, given that in order to mantain a healthy HCT levels, theres need for most people to donate blood frequently every few months, what can be done if after a few years Iron levels get depleted, read many cases through excelmale and other TRT boards about the difficulty of bringing up Iron levels with regular supplements.


----------



## stewedw

.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo cheers,
> 
> BP is averaging at 134/70 heart rate 65bpm over the six months or so that I've had the machine (omeron, decent spec etc) which is lower than the 148-155/75-80 hr 86bpm from dece last year. Changes are just more water, more and more walking so far.
> 
> I'll get a medicheck done mid December then every three months and get feedback on what's what. I was the guy who had/has athletes heart and got an mri as the consultant was curious more than anything, I've no symptoms to be alarmed about as far as heart issues after a scare six years ago. So I'll come back and let you know the outcome and that of the bloods also.
> 
> As always, thank you for the swift and knowledgeable reply. Very much appreciated.


 Excellent, that level is perfectly healthy. I would really be concerned if the systolic was 140 or higher for a long time. low-mid 130s is okay. Diastolic is perfect.

Awesome, keep me posted. Athlete's heart is benign pretty much most of the time. You should be okay, they can always keep an eye on heart rhythm, exercise stress testing, ultra sound, etc once yearly or every couple of years.

Anytime brother


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> How much of Iron as Ferrous Bisglycinate do you recommend for general well being?


 You only need it if you :

1. Are deficient in serum iron or ferritin 2. Diet low in iron 3. Malabsorption issues due to GI problems like celiacs, IBS, crohns 4. Women with heavy periods/post-surgical patient's who lost a lot of blood/etc.

Otherwise, you don't need to supplement iron, i wouldn't just add it unless it's needed for some reason. It's also found in a lot of foods that are fortified with it like rice, breads, and cereals.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> I would like to ask you 2 questions:
> 
> -I was recently reading about Nattokinase supplementation for Cardiovascular health and even Lowering Blood pressure specially for pre-hypertensive individuals, if you know about it, whats your opinion?
> 
> -Second question is about Iron levels while being on TRT for many years, given that in order to mantain a healthy HCT levels, theres need for most people to donate blood frequently every few months, what can be done if after a few years Iron levels get depleted, read many cases through excelmale and other TRT boards about the difficulty of bringing up Iron levels with regular supplements.


 Interesting compound, i'm a minimalist when it comes to supplementation. Cardio+Vitamin K2 should do the trick for heart/arterial health.

It seems like an alright compound, you can read more about it here: https://examine.com/supplements/nattokinase/

Iron biglycinate with vitamin C. Ferrous sulfate works too with vitamin C, it's cheaper and easier to find but can cause GI upset in some people. Avoid calcium/milk/dairy when consuming iron supplements as this can negatively affect absorption.


----------



## swole troll

For someone cutting very lean and then looking at a very long and slow gaining phase (6 month +) do you think a gh and insulin bridge between cycles would be a viable option for continued growth without hammering bloodwork (keeping test circa 300mg during cruise)

Main concern would be trashing insulin sensitivity


----------



## Avgs

what kind of drugs and cycles do rowers take?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> For someone cutting very lean and then looking at a very long and slow gaining phase (6 month +) do you think a gh and insulin bridge between cycles would be a viable option for continued growth without hammering bloodwork (keeping test circa 300mg during cruise)
> 
> Main concern would be trashing insulin sensitivity


 Definitely, i've noticed the same effect of 300 mg test prop with only 150 mg test prop+3-4 IU HGH. Pumps and strength are the same if not slightly higher. I think HGH may be an important tool for guys with lots of muscle who want to keep doses lower during a cruise for health/longevity purposes. Extrapolating from that, i think what you are suggesting could be a good idea.

It seems HGH gives you more potency per mg of AAS. HGH increases intramuscular nitrogen content just like AAS do, so that explains the increase in "pump" as pumped muscles are filled with nirtrogen/glycogen. This is why taking T3 flattens you out, as thyroid hormone has the opposite effect on nitrogen/glycogen levels by increasing their metabolism/turn over.

I don't believe long-term insulin sensitivity is a concern with exogenous insulin useage. The bodybuilding community is well-protected from DM II (diabetes) thanks to high activity levels, high levels of skeletal muscle (one of the most protective factors from diabetes), and sometimes low levels of body fat (another protective factor).

Extrapolating from observations in bodybuilders and diabetic patient's using insulin, the bodybuilders never really have an issue coming off insulin, the diabetic patients have been able to wean themselves off or completely stop using insulin in certain cases of extreme or significant weight loss, which leads me to think believe that there is very low risk of dependence on exogenous insulin. We see it with exogenous thyroid hormone use, discontinuation even after many months-years leads to full recovery of natural production. (Very different hormones but just one example)


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> what kind of drugs and cycles do rowers take?


 I wouldn't know, never done rowing or know any rowers. They do appear to be "juiced" and as in any high level of competition for just about any sport including golf, there will be PED useage. Probably stimulants/cognitive enhancers for focus/wakefulness/drive+motivation/increased power output, and AAS/HGH for recovery for grueling workouts.

What they are taking i don't know, but i would guess winstrol would be in the stack. It's very popular with endurance/power sports hybrids like sprinters/boxers. It gives you that dry/lean hard look, increases endurance and muscle recovery without increasing weight.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

So on another thread a fella has been blasting, cruising and then trt for about three years but has been using the SAME weekly dose of aromasin throughout this period.

Surely he's fkd his ability to use or create the enzymes that the ai was supposed to block permanently and should come off the ai ongoing for a few weeks or months?


----------



## trio

@El Chapo

Ive just started Test-E 2ml a week. 300mg per ml.

I did my first jab Wednesday and its now Saturday. Ive got HCG and Arimnidex. How would you recommend i use these?

From what i understand, on my second jab (Wednesday) i take 500iu HCG and 500iu HCG Sat. Then start 0.5mg Arimnidex Mon/Thurs?

Thanks for all your help and guidance. Remember i previously broke my testicle.


----------



## ghost.recon

ElChapo said:


> Myself and @ghost.recon don't believe in any benefit from cycling clenbuterol for instance as was common in the past.
> 
> but what you are proposing could actually work pretty well, grant it, yohimbine metabolites actually stick around much longer than the yohimbine itself and can reach a saturation point/stacking effect. I don't see an issue with cycling the compounds, but i'm a fan of keeping things as simple as possible and putting 300% effort into the things we know matter the most.
> 
> I also love yohimbine, really cool compound. Powerful stimulant, increases libido/erections, and melts fat with good diet/cardio stack, especially stubborn deposits.


 IMO I see minimal issues in long-term daily use of beta 2 agonists i.e. clenbuterol, albuterol etc, providing it is done correctly.

To debunk the age-old bodybuilding myth of needing time on/off when using clenbuterol, I will make the following points.

In modern day clinical practice, asthmatic patients that are prescribed beta 2 agonists, can use these drugs on a daily basis for immediate bronchodilatory relief for several consecutive years without any significant issues in therapeutic effect.

So if asthmatic patients can use a beta 2 agonist without taking time off and still have an effect, surely this makes the time on/off method invalid?

If time on/off was the best way to use beta 2 agonists, surely it would be implemented into modern day clinical practice?

If beta 2 agonists stilled working after 2 weeks on, why are asthmatic not dropping dead from asphyxiation?

Where are the bodies? There aren't any.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> So on another thread a fella has been blasting, cruising and then trt for about three years but has been using the SAME weekly dose of aromasin throughout this period.
> 
> Surely he's fkd his ability to use or create the enzymes that the ai was supposed to block permanently and should come off the ai ongoing for a few weeks or months?


 When they say that aromasin "permanently" binds, what they mean is that it binds to it until the enzyme is discarded/broken down by the body. The body will still produce the enzyme, but when that aromasin molecule binds to that one enzyme molecule, it disables it forever. Your body will still keep making new enzymes. Arimidex technically doesn't bind permanently, so on paper there are worries of "rebound" effect but in the real world this is not really a concern.

He can keep using aromasin forever, i would be more concerned with aromasin overuseage, many people are cooking their E2 levels too low which has a bunch of negative health consequences and can affect your libido, energy, cognition and well-being. I've many guys get on TRT and they don't feel good because the doctor prescribes anywhere from 2 mg adex to 7 mg adex per week. Testosterone does a lot of it's jobs by converting to DHT/E2 and other metabolites. When you block them, testosterone is not able to perform all of it's functions.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Ive just started Test-E 2ml a week. 300mg per ml.
> 
> I did my first jab Wednesday and its now Saturday. Ive got HCG and Arimnidex. How would you recommend i use these?
> 
> From what i understand, on my second jab (Wednesday) i take 500iu HCG and 500iu HCG Sat. Then start 0.5mg Arimnidex Mon/Thurs?
> 
> Thanks for all your help and guidance. Remember i previously broke my testicle.


 It's always difficult to assume the required dosage of AI without having labs or experience. Have you ever ran a cycle of test before or your first time? This can help you make a decision based on past experience.

Otherwise, on 600 mg per week, most people will do fine on 0.5-1 mg per week of Adex. You want E2 more on the high-normal side as this is better for libido, insulin sensitivity and other benefits (some guys do feel better with lower levels/we're all different). It's possible you need 0 mg adex per week or +2 mg adex per week, but 0.5-1 mg is a good prophylactic dosage to start with on 600 mg per week of testosterone.

If you're going to run the adex, split it into two doses and take it on your injections days so it's easy to remember/more stable levels.


----------



## ElChapo

ghost.recon said:


> IMO I see minimal issues in long-term daily use of beta 2 agonists i.e. clenbuterol, albuterol etc, providing it is done correctly.
> 
> To debunk the age-old bodybuilding myth of needing time on/off when using clenbuterol, I will make the following points.
> 
> In modern day clinical practice, asthmatic patients that are prescribed beta 2 agonists, can use these drugs on a daily basis for immediate bronchodilatory relief for several consecutive years without any significant issues in therapeutic effect.
> 
> So if asthmatic patients can use a beta 2 agonist without taking time off and still have an effect, surely this makes the time on/off method invalid?
> 
> If time on/off was the best way to use beta 2 agonists, surely it would be implemented into modern day clinical practice?
> 
> If beta 2 agonists stilled working after 2 weeks on, why are asthmatic not dropping dead from asphyxiation?
> 
> Where are the bodies? There aren't any.


 The man himself


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> It's always difficult to assume the required dosage of AI without having labs or experience. Have you ever ran a cycle of test before or your first time? This can help you make a decision based on past experience.
> 
> Otherwise, on 600 mg per week, most people will do fine on 0.5-1 mg per week of Adex. You want E2 more on the high-normal side as this is better for libido, insulin sensitivity and other benefits (some guys do feel better with lower levels/we're all different). It's possible you need 0 mg adex per week or +2 mg adex per week, but 0.5-1 mg is a good prophylactic dosage to start with on 600 mg per week of testosterone.
> 
> If you're going to run the adex, split it into two doses and take it on your injections days so it's easy to remember/more stable levels.


 Thanks for the reply. Its really appreciated.

I'm just going for 1 jab a week. I will start Adex 0.25mg (quater) on Wednesday (jab day) and Saturday. What week shall i start this on? I did my jab a few days ago (wednesday)

I'll also start HCG on week two or three? 500iu split Wed/Sat.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Thanks for the reply. Its really appreciated.
> 
> I'm just going for 1 jab a week. I will start Adex 0.25mg (quater) on Wednesday (jab day) and Saturday. What week shall i start this on? I did my jab a few days ago (wednesday)
> 
> I'll also start HCG on week two or three? 500iu split Wed/Sat.


 Start it the same day you start injecting. After your first testosterone injection your testosterone levels will already be very high. The reason you don't "feel it" right away is due to something called "gene expression" which makes the effect delay for a bit. The body needs to start producing the genes to express the effects of elevated testosterone levels.

So take your AI the same week you start testosterone as your test levels will be very high already. Start HCG the same week as well. The less chance you give your testes to atrophy, the better your chances of recovery/fertility.


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> Start it the same day you start injecting. After your first testosterone injection your testosterone levels will already be very high. The reason you don't "feel it" right away is due to something called "gene expression" which makes the effect delay for a bit. The body needs to start producing the genes to express the effects of elevated testosterone levels.
> 
> So take your AI the same week you start testosterone as your test levels will be very high already. Start HCG the same week as well. The less chance you give your testes to atrophy, the better your chances of recovery/fertility.


 Brilliant.

1. As i had my first jab Wednesday, shall i take 0.25mg adex in the morning. Then another 0.25 adex on Wednesday when i do my next jab?

2. The HCG is the 5,000iu that comes with the 1ml of water. Shall i mix this in the morning and use 500iu. The only issue is, its for one use only? How you reccomend i go about that?

3. My right nipple is somewhat puffy. Maybe thats in my head?


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Brilliant.
> 
> 1. As i had my first jab Wednesday, shall i take 0.25mg adex in the morning. Then another 0.25 adex on Wednesday when i do my next jab?
> 
> 2. The HCG is the 5,000iu that comes with the 1ml of water. Shall i mix this in the morning and use 500iu. The only issue is, its for one use only? How you reccomend i go about that?
> 
> 3. My right nipple is somewhat puffy. Maybe thats in my head?


 1. You can skip the first one, you will be fine. Since nipple is puffy, you can throw it in though.

2. The HCG is good for 60 days refrigerated. If you have ampoules, you can transfer the liquid into a vial after reconstitution. With HGH, i like to reconstitute a weeks worth at a time, prefill all the syringes(about 7) and keep them in the fridge. You can do the same thing with HCG. You can do 5 weeks prefill into 5 syringes per 5000 IU vial.

3. It could be puffy already from injection. True gyno will usually start as a pea sized lump. Some people get the puffiness and it goes away when you stop, other times its a sign that gyno might happen.


----------



## Djibril

Hello again

Would like to ask a question, don't know how exactly to put it but here it goes.

How would you compare the effect on HDL of oral winstrol vs anavar. I know winnie is one of the worst on your lipids, but how much more then var for example?

Liver values dont stress me so much because the liver is a very strong organ and a healthy diet, no alcohol and tudca-nac combo make me not stress much about it but lipid profile is another story. Calcification of the arteries long term etc


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Hello again
> 
> Would like to ask a question, don't know how exactly to put it but here it goes.
> 
> How would you compare the effect on HDL of oral winstrol vs anavar. I know winnie is one of the worst on your lipids, but how much more then var for example?
> 
> Liver values dont stress me so much because the liver is a very strong organ and a healthy diet, no alcohol and tudca-nac combo make me not stress much about it but lipid profile is another story. Calcification of the arteries long term etc


 Very common question, winstrol is harsher on lipids. Anavar is a fairly mild AAS but since it's oral, it does hit the lipids as well. Anything consumed orally will have a stronger effect on the liver. Cholesterol is actually synthesized in the liver. Taking estrogen pills can lower IGF-1 but injections/creams don't do that. It's because IGF-1 is also produced in the liver. Trenbolone and others can also impair lipids when injected of course.

If aren't concerned with acute liver stress/values you should not be concerned with temporary change in lipids. It takes many years of impaired lipid profile to be a risk factor for heart disease/atherosclerosis. Just like high BP and high blood sugar take years to take their toll. ( of course extremely high BP/glucose can put you in the hospital fast too) Don't worry about your lipids unless you are running harsh compounds like winstrol/trenbolone year round. (As some do). Even then, a lot of the risks come down to genetics and other lifestyle factors. (high body fat, smoking, sedentary/lack of cardio)


----------



## Djibril

Completely understand.

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer. Most likely will never be running trenbolone to be honest.

Winstrol once or twice a year max for 8 weeks each but i may even limit it to once a year

Ofc always doing cardio, being active not smoking-drinking, etc


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Completely understand.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the detailed answer. Most likely will never be running trenbolone to be honest.
> 
> Winstrol once or twice a year max for 8 weeks each but i may even limit it to once a year
> 
> Ofc always doing cardio, being active not smoking-drinking, etc


 You will be fine then


----------



## cell-tech

Is it safe to mix hcg and hgh in the same injection with bac water?


----------



## wereireland

Does EQ have many negative effects on lipids and general health? Im finishing my T/T/M cut soon and I haven't bloods yet but I'm guessing my lipids will be awful from tren and var combo. I'm going to be cruising until about Christmas but I'd love to run EQ for athletic performance in the winter. I have a goal of increasing my running and maybe a triathlon in the future. Not willing to try cardarine. I was thinking of 150-200mg test with 600-750 EQ for this "cruise".

Not a true cruise I know but do you think my body would recover and generally be healthy for the new year running this?


----------



## trio

@El Chapo thanks again for the response and the gold standard of guidance from yourself. Its much appreciate.

Quick one, i injected 2 ml in my right glute on Wednesday. Ive still got bad Post Injection Pain. Its warm but not really swolen. Maybe i can feel the oil alittle? Now i need to inject again Wednesday but worried about doing my.other glute incase it causes an infection? Could this right glute be infected? There is no golf ball swelling or redness. Just sore all the time.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Is it safe to mix hcg and hgh in the same injection with bac water?


 Yes, 100% safe.

Some people even mix Testosterone with HCG in the same vial. Doesn't work for me, leads to PIP.


----------



## ElChapo

wereireland said:


> Does EQ have many negative effects on lipids and general health? Im finishing my T/T/M cut soon and I haven't bloods yet but I'm guessing my lipids will be awful from tren and var combo. I'm going to be cruising until about Christmas but I'd love to run EQ for athletic performance in the winter. I have a goal of increasing my running and maybe a triathlon in the future. Not willing to try cardarine. I was thinking of 150-200mg test with 600-750 EQ for this "cruise".
> 
> Not a true cruise I know but do you think my body would recover and generally be healthy for the new year running this?


 If you're gonna cruise, then cruise on testosterone.

I'm not sure exactly how harsh EQ is on lipids. You can't call 1 gram of AAS a cruise. I'm fairly liberal when it comes to doses, cycle length, etc, but that's a legit blast. My guess would be that lipids will still be in the crapper if you run that Test+EQ combo. Some people already have mild impairment of HDL on only TRT dose of testosterone.

To answer the last question, definitely not. It's not a cruise or a break in any sense of the word. I'm not saying you can't do it, as it's your body and health.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El Chapo thanks again for the response and the gold standard of guidance from yourself. Its much appreciate.
> 
> Quick one, i injected 2 ml in my right glute on Wednesday. Ive still got bad Post Injection Pain. Its warm but not really swolen. Maybe i can feel the oil alittle? Now i need to inject again Wednesday but worried about doing my.other glute incase it causes an infection? Could this right glute be infected? There is no golf ball swelling or redness. Just sore all the time.


 What is your cycle history? Is this your first injection with that specific vial of oil?

We need to rule out reaction to new AAS/dirty oil/too high concentration versus subq leak that happens once in a while. It can also be sore if you shook too much while injecting the oil.

It's unlikely to be infection if you used an alcohol swab. Moderate/high dose ibuprofen or NSAID. That will stop the pain until it's healed/absorbed.


----------



## Jordan08

Whats your take on Supplementation on hydrolyzed collagen type 1 and 2?. Are they really worth the hype?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

1/i noticed a few people taking cyclic maltodextrin aka Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin. I used to take some malto Dextrin years ago an hour before and straight after working out, plus I made a power shake some days for convenience with a oats, whey, milk and malto in it.

Is hbcd really much better than my power shake? Or is it mainly for insulin users to shuttle more glucose into muscles?

2/I've been doing some reading up on igf1 after some of your replies.

Does only tren increase igf-1, or all aas?

Some of what I'm reading suggests that tren increases igf-1,ans subsequently sattelite cell recruitment which (to my understanding) would mean that you are creating new muscles cells? I thought that muscles cells we had were genetically pre defined and either grow or shrink.

The various info on tren makes it out to be superior in every way to any other aas.

I've not run it this year year as I started to get acid reflux, Ed and other sides that I never used fk get. But fk me doms exists again after workouts regardless of what I'm running and eating. After three weeks on tren doms was mild at most and recovery was insanely good.

I might be reading the info wrong so thought that I would ask. Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1/i noticed a few people taking cyclic maltodextrin aka Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin. I used to take some malto Dextrin years ago an hour before and straight after working out, plus I made a power shake some days for convenience with a oats, whey, milk and malto in it.
> 
> Is hbcd really much better than my power shake? Or is it mainly for insulin users to shuttle more glucose into muscles?
> 
> 2/I've been doing some reading up on igf1 after some of your replies.
> 
> Does only tren increase igf-1, or all aas?
> 
> Some of what I'm reading suggests that tren increases igf-1,ans subsequently sattelite cell recruitment which (to my understanding) would mean that you are creating new muscles cells? I thought that muscles cells we had were genetically pre defined and either grow or shrink.
> 
> The various info on tren makes it out to be superior in every way to any other aas.
> 
> I've not run it this year year as I started to get acid reflux, Ed and other sides that I never used fk get. But fk me doms exists again after workouts regardless of what I'm running and eating. After three weeks on tren doms was mild at most and recovery was insanely good.
> 
> I might be reading the info wrong so thought that I would ask. Cheers


 1. It's crap, just eat some cereal, bread, oatmeal whatever. If you want pre/post workout. Most of these supplements are useless. It's a huge industry $$$ and a big ass hole in the wallets of customers.

2. Tren actually lowers IGF-1 in most of the blood work i've seen. There's some study showing that it may increase the IGF-1 receptor in muscle's sensitivity to IGF-1. I don't know. It doesn't seem to have a negative effect on muscle gain or HGH when the Tren lowers IGF-1, so maybe that's true. I also don't know how true the whole "new cells/satellite whatever" thing is. There's a lot of non-sense thrown around. It doesn't really matter why, HGH works, especially with insulin. In my opinion/experience, tren is overrated, especially with's it's sides/benefit ratio.

3. This is why it's overrated, it causes side effects range to gastric reflux/indigestion, to mood swings/irritability/anger/anxiety, gynecomastia, erectile dysfunction, etc. Did you start getting DOMS after taking a break from training or changing your exercise routine? DOMS is normal in these cases and goes away after a week or so.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Whats your take on Supplementation on hydrolyzed collagen type 1 and 2?. Are they really worth the hype?


 There's some evidence that collagen can help with skin and joints. Mike O'Hearn uses them and the guy is 50 years old, lifting like a 20 something in their prime and he has aged better than most people i've ever seen.


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> What is your cycle history? Is this your first injection with that specific vial of oil?
> 
> We need to rule out reaction to new AAS/dirty oil/too high concentration versus subq leak that happens once in a while. It can also be sore if you shook too much while injecting the oil.
> 
> It's unlikely to be infection if you used an alcohol swab. Moderate/high dose ibuprofen or NSAID. That will stop the pain until it's healed/absorbed.


 Done Test and Eq before. First injection with this specific oil. It is SIS Test Depot 300. Ive never messed up an injection before.

I was shaking abit because ive done a cycle is a 3 years or so. I can feel it under the skin, like lumpy. Im not ill. Its alittle hotter than usual to touch the skin.

The pain isnt so bad that i need releif. I can just feel it, sore and lumpy. My major concern is an infection. I used Alcohol wipes before and after. Alcohol wiped the top of the vial. Used a different pin for jabbing and drawing. Used blue for jabbing and blue for drawing. Im suped OCD about being clean during this type of thing because infections are super bad news.

Shall i jab again on Wednesday in the other glute? Im thinking i either didnt inject deep enough or some leaked sub-q. Shall i massage it hard with a cricket ball to break up the oil?

Lastly, if some did go Sub-q will it have got into my system?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> 1. It's crap, just eat some cereal, bread, oatmeal whatever. If you want pre/post workout. Most of these supplements are useless. It's a huge industry $$$ and a big ass hole in the wallets of customers.
> 
> 2. Tren actually lowers IGF-1 in most of the blood work i've seen. There's some study showing that it may increase the IGF-1 receptor in muscle's sensitivity to IGF-1. I don't know. It doesn't seem to have a negative effect on muscle gain or HGH when the Tren lowers IGF-1, so maybe that's true. I also don't know how true the whole "new cells/satellite whatever" thing is. There's a lot of non-sense thrown around. It doesn't really matter why, HGH works, especially with insulin. In my opinion/experience, tren is overrated, especially with's it's sides/benefit ratio.
> 
> 3. This is why it's overrated, it causes side effects range to gastric reflux/indigestion, to mood swings/irritability/anger/anxiety, gynecomastia, erectile dysfunction, etc. Did you start getting DOMS after taking a break from training or changing your exercise routine? DOMS is normal in these cases and goes away after a week or so.


 I'm tending to get doms after most workouts, I am training differently but it's two days doms. Last couple of blasts had some rest tren mast, or test tren winny. This time it's minus the tren and I'm feeling it lol.

I was gonna add tren at a lower dose to minimise sides so will keep you posted.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Done Test and Eq before. First injection with this specific oil. It is SIS Test Depot 300. Ive never messed up an injection before.
> 
> I was shaking abit because ive done a cycle is a 3 years or so. I can feel it under the skin, like lumpy. Im not ill. Its alittle hotter than usual to touch the skin.
> 
> The pain isnt so bad that i need releif. I can just feel it, sore and lumpy. My major concern is an infection. I used Alcohol wipes before and after. Alcohol wiped the top of the vial. Used a different pin for jabbing and drawing. Used blue for jabbing and blue for drawing. Im suped OCD about being clean during this type of thing because infections are super bad news.
> 
> Shall i jab again on Wednesday in the other glute? Im thinking i either didnt inject deep enough or some leaked sub-q. Shall i massage it hard with a cricket ball to break up the oil?
> 
> Lastly, if some did go Sub-q will it have got into my system?


 So there is a good chance it's the oil. Either concentration of AAS powder too high, not enough or too much solvents, or dirty oil. It's likely the testosterone is overdosed, UGLs get the stuff for free sometimes from their suppliers. (Raw test powder) so they like to overdose, this makes it crash in the muscle and causes bad pip. Easy fix, just dilute it with sterile oil.

Otherwise, it's just a SQ leak. Very common in gluteal injections since there's more fat there than anywhere else. Try a different site, if there's no pain, then it was a SQ leak. NSAIDs/ibuprofen are your best friends.

Very unlikely to be infection, very likely to be all the things i stated above.

I would try quads or delts since there is more muscle/less = less risk of SQ leak. Then you will know if it's the oil. (good chance since you just switched). If it's the oil, buy some sterile oil and cut the concentration by 25-50% that will fix the issue. There's a solution, we just need to try all this stuff to pinpoint the issue.

SUBQ goes into the system, but at a slower rate.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo in these months i did the cycle that you advice me: TestP NPP W and it was AWESOME, both for gains and look.

Now i have a ton of EQ, what do you think of this steroid? I have used upto 1,5g but i didn't notice that much gains wise.


----------



## Royboss

ElChapo said:


> Very good results, you are a good candidate for blast/PCT since you have solid levels for a 40 year old male.
> 
> Stick with it, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
> 
> Deca/Tren will cook your balls/fertility/testosterone production.


 Good morning ElChapo,

hope your well bud.

As promised I've just received my blood results and was wondering what your opinion would be of it.

still not sure weather to stay on 300mg every 7 days Cursing like I have been doing for last 6 plus months to maintain or even Lower my dose. 
Or just come of and pct and try and recover and start a new cycle next year in the summer, only I can make that decision I fully understand that but I would appreciate any input again from you with my results I've just received

TIA


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo in these months i did the cycle that you advice me: TestP NPP W and it was AWESOME, both for gains and look.
> 
> Now i have a ton of EQ, what do you think of this steroid? I have used upto 1,5g but i didn't notice that much gains wise.


 Not into it really, i do not see the point. Test P+winstrol or superdrol can do anything(bulk/cut/strength). NPP/Tren in people who are good responders with minimal sides are excellent compounds as well. I'm in the camp of keeping things as simple as possible and putting all effort into what matters, the fundamentals.


----------



## ElChapo

Royboss said:


> Good morning ElChapo,
> 
> hope your well bud.
> 
> As promised I've just received my blood results and was wondering what your opinion would be of it.
> 
> still not sure weather to stay on 300mg every 7 days Cursing like I have been doing for last 6 plus months to maintain or even Lower my dose.
> Or just come of and pct and try and recover and start a new cycle next year in the summer, only I can make that decision I fully understand that but I would appreciate any input again from you with my results I've just received
> 
> TIA
> 
> View attachment 175535
> 
> 
> View attachment 175537
> 
> 
> View attachment 175539
> 
> 
> View attachment 175541
> 
> 
> View attachment 175543
> 
> 
> View attachment 175545


 Good question,

You are a great candidate for PCT and if you throw in HGH and keep training/eating right, you should be able to maintain a significant amount if not most of your gains until your next blast. I would be interesting in seeing your IGF-1 levels, but 3-4 IU HGH daily will have a strong muscle preserving effect. The amount of muscle you can keep after PCT until your next blast comes down to genetics, how good PCT recovery is for testosterone levels, and how much muscle you are trying to hold on to until your next blast. (if this is beyond the human limit, then it's unlikely to stick around, you can get an idea by calculating FFMI)


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Celery seed extract + Olive leaf extract all year long if using AAS a good idea?

I read a lot on both and it seems to lower blood pressure in hypertensive people + lower LDL and Increase HDL. seems really good


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Celery seed extract + Olive leaf extract all year long if using AAS a good idea?
> 
> I read a lot on both and it seems to lower blood pressure in hypertensive people + lower LDL and Increase HDL. seems really good


 The olive leaf extract looks pretty impressive on paper : https://examine.com/supplements/olive-leaf-extract/

Idk about the celery seed. The data is not as solid. https://examine.com/supplements/celery-seed-extract/


----------



## trio

Thanks again for the reply. Now ive just done my 2 hour commute home from work and the mass/swelling under the skins seems to have shifted to the side, like just below the hip bone. Ive circled it on the picture. Its sore and i have no idea why its moving i didnt inject there lol. It seems to be getting alittle less sore, but at the same time the mass have moved some. Like water under the skin buts its solid as a rock.

1. What do you think? Ive circled it in the pic.

2. Shall i just slap 2ml in the other side glute tomorrow and see how that goes? Ive got 3 bottles of oil. No oil to dilute and jab is tomorrow.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Thanks again for the reply. Now ive just done my 2 hour commute home from work and the mass/swelling under the skins seems to have shifted to the side, like just below the hip bone. Ive circled it on the picture. Its sore and i have no idea why its moving i didnt inject there lol. It seems to be getting alittle less sore, but at the same time the mass have moved some. Like water under the skin buts its solid as a rock.
> 
> 1. What do you think? Ive circled it in the pic.
> 
> 2. Shall i just slap 2ml in the other side glute tomorrow and see how that goes? Ive got 3 bottles of oil. No oil to dilute and jab is tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 175551


 That's normal, the knot can move around, due to gravity. I've seen it many times.

Stop using the dorsal glutes. It's the worst adminstration site, too much fat, nerves and blood vessels.

I suggest delts, quads, and ventroglutes. Try using delts/quads because these are mostly muscle, so we can avoid SQ leak and rule that out. Then we will know if it's the oil itself, which you can dilute and use.


----------



## Djibril

@ElChapo would you use insulin needles for quads as well?


----------



## TALBOTL

@El Chapo could you inject test prop twice per week for example 2ml Mon & Thursday? Appreciate most evidence suggest EOD which is understandable.

I plan to switch between chest and delts initially using insulin needles (currently around 13% bf so presume lean enough to do so)

It'll be my first cycle and whilst we know Test E is king of the first cycle! I'm sure you of all people can understand the potential benefits of using prop for a first cycle too! - I don't have an issue with injecting multiple times per week, especially if I can get away with using insulin needles.

Dosage of 400mg test prop per week should net approx 320mg of test after ester weight is considered which would be in line with 5/600 of Test E on the same formula (I believe)?

Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> @ElChapo would you use insulin needles for quads as well?


 Yes, they work great. You can get away with 5/8th inch if you are lean, otherwise, use 1/2 inch. I find that holding the needle in about 20 seconds after injection greatly reduces the risk of SQ leak. I don't remember the last time i had PIP and i run propionate.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @El Chapo could you inject test prop twice per week for example 2ml Mon & Thursday? Appreciate most evidence suggest EOD which is understandable.
> 
> I plan to switch between chest and delts initially using insulin needles (currently around 13% bf so presume lean enough to do so)
> 
> It'll be my first cycle and whilst we know Test E is king of the first cycle! I'm sure you of all people can understand the potential benefits of using prop for a first cycle too! - I don't have an issue with injecting multiple times per week, especially if I can get away with using insulin needles.
> 
> Dosage of 400mg test prop per week should net approx 320mg of test after ester weight is considered which would be in line with 5/600 of Test E on the same formula (I believe)?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 x 2 per week works fine for prop. The levels actually stay supraphysiological for 90% of the week, especially on higher doses. We don't need extreme stability in androgen levels, remember, we have diurnal variation in our testosterone levels. You start very high in the early morning and can be down as low as 50% by evening time. Of course there fast and slow metabolizers. I'm a fast metabolizer and i still get away with x 2 per week prop injections. No difference in gains/mood/energy/libido etc.

I would do prop as a first AAS, less bloat so you can see your results better. You could also do Mon/Wed/Fri which isn't so bad either if you want more stable levels. Using prop as your first AAS will teach you how to inject much faster than pinning once a week with a longer ester.

Yes, very close. 320 vs 350 of pure testosterone for Prop 400 vs enanthate 500. On paper they seem equivalent, but in my experience, prop has a much stronger effect on strength, libido and energy. It might be due to the stronger spike, i don't know, but you can "feel" it more than enanthate. Others have said the same. I would suggest adding winstrol or superdrol for the next cycle and maybe bumping to 500 mg of prop.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> x 2 per week works fine for prop. The levels actually stay supraphysiological for 90% of the week, especially on higher doses. We don't need extreme stability in androgen levels, remember, we have diurnal variation in our testosterone levels. You start very high in the early morning and can be down as low as 50% by evening time. Of course there fast and slow metabolizers. I'm a fast metabolizer and i still get away with x 2 per week prop injections. No difference in gains/mood/energy/libido etc.
> 
> I would do prop as a first AAS, less bloat so you can see your results better. You could also do Mon/Wed/Fri which isn't so bad either if you want more stable levels. Using prop as your first AAS will teach you how to inject much faster than pinning once a week with a longer ester.
> 
> Yes, very close. 320 vs 350 of pure testosterone for Prop 400 vs enanthate 500. On paper they seem equivalent, but in my experience, prop has a much stronger effect on strength, libido and energy. It might be due to the stronger spike, i don't know, but you can "feel" it more than enanthate. Others have said the same. I would suggest adding winstrol or superdrol for the next cycle and maybe bumping to 500 mg of prop.


 Perfect, thanks again.

I'll opt for M/W/F in that case, I had no issues doing the more frequent jabs just wanted to see if twice a week was viable also.

Naturally over the 3 tests I've done in the past 18 months I have been between 25nmol and 35nmol naturally so I'm hopeful the addition of stable levels of prop (hence my want to use it) should provide some ok results!

Will opt for the orals and 500mg on the next cycle, as no doubt this won't be my first and last!

LT


----------



## Djibril

A question regarding iron in TRT patients or individuals that blast and cruise and donate blood very often. You recommended some pages ago Iron biglycinate with vitamin C or Ferrous sulfate with vitamin C if no GI upset.

Would you recommend taking an Iron supplement for a period of time after donating (say for a month for example ) even if the iron levels are not extremely low, more like taking caution so it never gets depleted.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Perfect, thanks again.
> 
> I'll opt for M/W/F in that case, I had no issues doing the more frequent jabs just wanted to see if twice a week was viable also.
> 
> Naturally over the 3 tests I've done in the past 18 months I have been between 25nmol and 35nmol naturally so I'm hopeful the addition of stable levels of prop (hence my want to use it) should provide some ok results!
> 
> Will opt for the orals and 500mg on the next cycle, as no doubt this won't be my first and last!
> 
> LT


 If you plan on doing PCT and coming off, or care about preserving fertility, make sure you run 1,500 IU HCG per week.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> A question regarding iron in TRT patients or individuals that blast and cruise and donate blood very often. You recommended some pages ago Iron biglycinate with vitamin C or Ferrous sulfate with vitamin C if no GI upset.
> 
> Would you recommend taking an Iron supplement for a period of time after donating (say for a month for example ) even if the iron levels are not extremely low, more like taking caution so it never gets depleted.


 This can be a good idea, ideally, you would go by blood work. It depends on how well you hold on to iron (genetics) and what your diet is like. Some guys do deplete their iron and ferritin levels with regular donations. It really depends on the individual, the diet and the frequency of donations.


----------



## Vince the Mince

ElChapo said:


> If you plan on doing PCT and coming off, or care about preserving fertility, make sure you run 1,500 IU HCG per week.


 Just curious, that's a little higher than I usually see recommended (500iu to 1000iu). Can you explain why that's the most appropriate dose? Also how is that broken up? 3 x 500iu?


----------



## ElChapo

Vince the Mince said:


> Just curious, that's a little higher than I usually see recommended (500iu to 1000iu). Can you explain why that's the most appropriate dose? Also how is that broken up? 3 x 500iu?


 500 IU does not work for a lot of people. Most need 1,000-1,500 IU per week to restore testicle size and fertility. This is also backed up by research.

You can do this x 2-3 per week. Even once per week, but that's not ideal.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Anabolic steroids like test do increase IGF-1 level a little or not at all?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Anabolic steroids like test do increase IGF-1 level a little or not at all?


 Sometimes, some research shows an increase with testosterone useage but i haven't seen that happen all the time.


----------



## Jaling

@ElChapo

hey not sure if this has been asked, although I'm sure somewhere it has.

can you pin tren ace twice a week?

just figured out the search bar at the top of the page.

you already have said you've had nice problems with tren ace or test prop twice per week.

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> hey not sure if this has been asked, although I'm sure somewhere it has.
> 
> can you pin tren ace twice a week?


 Yeah, try it and you will see no difference in gains.

Anecedotally, some people claim more frequent injections lead to less sides for them. This could be true or placebo. In my case, i have not seen a difference in mood, gains, etc. I do usually go for Mon/Wed/Fri but x 2 per week will still work. If you run a steroidcalc.com graph, you can see x 2 per week is not as bad as you would think.


----------



## Djibril

Hello bro. Once again thanks for all the great answers we are lucky to read in this thread.

I was looking at yohimbine, read you said best taken in the morning and not used for too long becuase as a strong stim it can crash you.

How long would you use it, it is best taken at the last 8 weeks of a diet for example or throughout with some weekly breaks


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Hello bro. Once again thanks for all the great answers we are lucky to read in this thread.
> 
> I was looking at yohimbine, read you said best taken in the morning and not used for too long becuase as a strong stim it can crash you.
> 
> How long would you use it, it is best taken at the last 8 weeks of a diet for example or throughout with some weekly breaks


 It's best used as a cutting agent and is also a great pre-workout. You can use it as long as you need to. It's best to use it without cycling it. Just use it every day during a cut or on your workout days if using it as a pre-workout.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> It's best used as a cutting agent and is also a great pre-workout. You can use it as long as you need to. It's best to use it without cycling it. Just use it every day during a cut or on your workout days if using it as a pre-workout.


 Thanks for th answer.

So once a day preworkout. What dose do you use and do you stack it with caffeine.

I remember 7 years ago i did an ECY stack. It was potent probably too many stims at once


----------



## bornagod

@ElChapo

A minute of your time if i may.

I had a 24 hour ecg monitor yesterday through to today, and the nurse at the cardiac centre, said there were some irregularities, where my resting heart rate through my hours of sleeping were as low as 55bpm (probably quite normal), an average heart rate through the day of 105 (bear in mind i mostly walk around during the day) and highs of 157 from just getting up off the sofa or walking upstairs.

Now she has referred me to a cardiologist, but im just wondering whether it may be a form of tachycardia or something?

I know your medical background isn't cardiology, but i would appreciate your thoughts on the above if you don't mind please.

Ive added a photo of my garmin to show how its been in the past 4 hours. In them 4 hours i have not done anything exert myself in the slightest.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Thanks for th answer.
> 
> So once a day preworkout. What dose do you use and do you stack it with caffeine.
> 
> I remember 7 years ago i did an ECY stack. It was potent probably too many stims at once


 http://yohimbine.emgsites.com/#&ui-state=dialog Here's a dosage calculator

Generally, dosage goes by weight but some guys are very sensitive and need less.

ECY is extremely powerful and unnecessary most of the time. Should only be used with people who have a strong history of stimulant useage and/or strong tolerance for stimulants. This could give someone who is sensitive/susceptible a heart or panic attack.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> A minute of your time if i may.
> 
> I had a 24 hour ecg monitor yesterday through to today, and the nurse at the cardiac centre, said there were some irregularities, where my resting heart rate through my hours of sleeping were as low as 55bpm (probably quite normal), an average heart rate through the day of 105 (bear in mind i mostly walk around during the day) and highs of 157 from just getting up off the sofa or walking upstairs.
> 
> Now she has referred me to a cardiologist, but im just wondering whether it may be a form of tachycardia or something?
> 
> I know your medical background isn't cardiology, but i would appreciate your thoughts on the above if you don't mind please.
> 
> Ive added a photo of my garmin to show how its been in the past 4 hours. In them 4 hours i have not done anything exert myself in the slightest.
> 
> View attachment 175645


 If your resting heart rate is +100 BPM that can be a concern. (It can signal weakened heart, poor circulation, hyperthyroidism, etc)

Do you use stimulants like caffeine or energy drinks? How much cardiovascular exercise do you perform? Do you know your BP levels? Approximate body fat %?


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> If your resting heart rate is +100 BPM that can be a concern. (It can signal weakened heart, poor circulation, hyperthyroidism, etc)
> 
> Do you use stimulants like caffeine or energy drinks? How much cardiovascular exercise do you perform? Do you know your BP levels? Approximate body fat %?


 No, i don't use any stims.

2-3 coffees a day and no energy drinks.

Between 30 and 50 miles on a road bike, but now the wether here has changed for the worse, then those miles will be 0.

Haven't got a reading but gp said it was fine.

Most probably 20%


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> No, i don't use any stims.
> 
> 2-3 coffees a day and no energy drinks.
> 
> Between 30 and 50 miles on a road bike, but now the wether here has changed for the worse, then those miles will be 0.
> 
> Haven't got a reading but gp said it was fine.
> 
> Most probably 20%


 You definitely wanna bring that body fat % down. I would get the heart checked out by a cardiologist.

Have you ever tested thyroid hormones? You can rule out hyperthyroidism.


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> You definitely wanna bring that body fat % down. I would get the heart checked out by a cardiologist.
> 
> Have you ever tested thyroid hormones? You can rule out hyperthyroidism.


 Ye definitely something ill be looking to do.

Yes had them checked earlier this year, thyroid was fine.

Its a 7 month waiting list to see the cardiologist. Do you think it would be stupid to continue with a cycle i have planned for next month it'll be

Test 250mg pw

Npp 300mg pw

Sdrol 10mg pd

Winni inject 50mg x3 pw


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> Ye definitely something ill be looking to do.
> 
> Yes had them checked earlier this year, thyroid was fine.
> 
> Its a 7 month waiting list to see the cardiologist. Do you think it would be stupid to continue with a cycle i have planned for next month it'll be
> 
> Test 250mg pw
> 
> Npp 300mg pw
> 
> Sdrol 10mg pd
> 
> Winni inject 50mg x3 pw


 What's your cycle history?

Like i said, i would focus on getting leaner. You wanna lean out, this will have protective effect on your health AND you will look and feel better.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo what's your opinion on cruising with test/mast, say 125mg of each?

my last cruise was 180mg test and oestrogen was elevated so would need an ai but after talking and doing a bit of research a break from ai will do me good.

It seems test/mast cruise is becoming more popular


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo what's your opinion on cruising with test/mast, say 125mg of each?
> 
> my last cruise was 180mg test and oestrogen was elevated so would need an ai but after talking and doing a bit of research a break from ai will do me good.
> 
> It seems test/mast cruise is becoming more popular


 Mast is fine, some guys get BPH like symptoms and have issues urinating. Others get increase hair thinning or acne/oily skin. Otherwise, it's fairly safe.

It will not reduce estrogen levels but can reduce estrogenic activity in the body, so you will feel like estrogen is lower. Estrogen is not always the enemy, high-normal levels are expect/normal/beneficial in TRT.

How high was your E2 on the last cruise? Did you have symptoms? Too many are trying to bring down E2 when it's beneficial.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Mast is fine, some guys get BPH like symptoms and have issues urinating. Others get increase hair thinning or acne/oily skin. Otherwise, it's fairly safe.
> 
> It will not reduce estrogen levels but can reduce estrogenic activity in the body, so you will feel like estrogen is lower. Estrogen is not always the enemy, high-normal levels are expect/normal/beneficial in TRT.
> 
> How high was your E2 on the last cruise? Did you have symptoms? Too many are trying to bring down E2 when it's beneficial.


 211. I felt fine, libido down but no problems in the bedroom just couldn't be arsed most the time

btw I don't suffer any of the sides you suggested above on mast


----------



## bornagod

ElChapo said:


> What's your cycle history?
> 
> Like i said, i would focus on getting leaner. You wanna lean out, this will have protective effect on your health AND you will look and feel better.


 2 Test tren mast cycle, test anadrol cycle, test npp and winstrol cycle and that's it i think.

Yes i may leave the cycle for now and trim down a bit 1st.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> 211. I felt fine, libido down but no problems in the bedroom just couldn't be arsed most the time
> 
> btw I don't suffer any of the sides you suggested above on mast


 Perfectly fine level, don't mess with it. You can try a smidgen of AI, it would only take 0.25 mg adex per week. 0.5 mg max and see if libido improves.

Otherwise, mast is fairly safe for cruising on long-term.


----------



## ElChapo

bornagod said:


> 2 Test tren mast cycle, test anadrol cycle, test npp and winstrol cycle and that's it i think.
> 
> Yes i may leave the cycle for now and trim down a bit 1st.


 Get cut brother and never go over 15%.

I suggest working to a legit 10% then lean bulk to 13%, rinse/repeat. You will always look really good and your health will benefit greatly.

You can cut on a lighter cycle too, and get the heart checked out .

Regular cardiovascular exercise will make your heart stronger and more efficient and will pull down that heart rate, may even help reverse to some extent whatever the issue is. I would not want resting heart rate any higher than 80 BPM.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Perfectly fine level, don't mess with it. You can try a smidgen of AI, it would only take 0.25 mg adex per week. 0.5 mg max and see if libido improves.
> 
> Otherwise, mast is fairly safe for cruising on long-term.


 Which would you prefer or think is best?

180-200mg test e with aromasin 3mg x2 a week

125 test e with 125 mast e. With only 125 test won't need an ai

have you cruised with mast?


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Yes, they work great. You can get away with 5/8th inch if you are lean, otherwise, use 1/2 inch. I find that holding the needle in about 20 seconds after injection greatly reduces the risk of SQ leak. I don't remember the last time i had PIP and i run propionate.


 Sorry one stupid question i got something wrong in my head i think.

Isnt 5/8 bigger then 1/2 inch so the later would be better for a lean person?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Which would you prefer or think is best?
> 
> 180-200mg test e with aromasin 3mg x2 a week
> 
> 125 test e with 125 mast e. With only 125 test won't need an ai
> 
> have you cruised with mast?


 If you will use aromasin, i would do 6-12.5 mg aromasin, split x 2 per week.

I would rather the mast. Yes, mast is good for cruising for some people. It can enhance mood/well-being/libido and add polish to the physique but i get BPH symptoms on it. (didn't in the past).

I would probably lean towards the test/mast combo myself if i were you.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Sorry one stupid question i got something wrong in my head i think.
> 
> Isnt 5/8 bigger then 1/2 inch so the later would be better for a lean person?


 You're right bro, i meant to say 5/16th which is 0.3125. 5/8th is about 0.6 and 1/2 is 0.5

5/16th is the smallest, i stick to 1/2 inch because even though i'm around 9%, it seems to increase the changes of SQ leak which gives me PIP.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> If you will use aromasin, i would do 6-12.5 mg aromasin, split x 2 per week.
> 
> I would rather the mast. Yes, mast is good for cruising for some people. It can enhance mood/well-being/libido and add polish to the physique but i get BPH symptoms on it. (didn't in the past).
> 
> I would probably lean towards the test/mast combo myself if i were you.


 Sold

Thanks again mate :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Sold
> 
> Thanks again mate :thumb


 Anytime brother, would love to hear your results. Keep us posted


----------



## zariph

Could you help me on deciding what to use next cycle? Looking to add some size, considering test deca, tho deca gives me gyno which is hard to control, thought of High test + oral maybe or would something like test + deca or tren be better for size?

Also what would be the benifits of dbol vs SD and vice versa?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Could you help me on deciding what to use next cycle? Looking to add some size, considering test deca, tho deca gives me gyno which is hard to control, thought of High test + oral maybe or would something like test + deca or tren be better for size?
> 
> Also what would be the benifits of dbol vs SD and vice versa?


 What's your cycle history and stats?

Superdrol blows dbol out of the water. Superdrol will make you hard, dry and pumped with big strength increases. Dbol can add a lot of water and can cause gyno.

If you are gyno prone, stay away from deca, dbol and tren.

I would stick to testosterone and winstrol or superdrol. The dose of each depends on cycle history, stats, goals, etc.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo About AAS abuse and libido , how/why do people who take steroids for long time get libido problems even when they stop?

I know 2 people who used steroids for 2-3 years , they re off since 1 year + and their blood are looking good BUT their libido is really bad.

It's quite worrying , I've been using low dose test since a long time now and I still have good libido if E2 is in range but to think that maybe in 2 years I ll have problems even if I keep taking 200-250mg test is not acceptable for me.

Does AAS usage damage some receptors or something , that can kill your libido?


----------



## trio

Hi @El Chapo,

Im 3 weeks into my Test E cycle 600mg each week. Im 20% body fat.

Shall i cut my body fat down for the next 2 to 3 weeks to try get it to 13% or 15% then clean bulk for rest of the cycle.

Going for 15 week cycle. I know there is no room after to cut at food needs to be in surplus during PCT.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@Elchicanoloco how long is bacteriostatic water good for, once opened? I read one month somewhere


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo About AAS abuse and libido , how/why do people who take steroids for long time get libido problems even when they stop?
> 
> I know 2 people who used steroids for 2-3 years , they re off since 1 year + and their blood are looking good BUT their libido is really bad.
> 
> It's quite worrying , I've been using low dose test since a long time now and I still have good libido if E2 is in range but to think that maybe in 2 years I ll have problems even if I keep taking 200-250mg test is not acceptable for me.
> 
> Does AAS usage damage some receptors or something , that can kill your libido?


 A lot of these guys have mild or significant hypogonadism after coming off. Some people have changes in their dopamine activity in the brain after steroid use that can take a while to reverse, but most of the time, guys coming off are not fully recovering their original testosterone levels. It can also be that the brain got used to high levels of androgens and built something like a tolerance where more is needed. (rare/unlikely)

The other issue is these guys will jerk off +3 times a day on AAS and they expect to keep that up off AAS but also when you over masturbate/have too much sex, it can cook your dopamine system. You see this with guys addicted to porn who develop ED and libido issues.

You are unlikely to run into any issues and "permanent libido loss" from AAS, there is usually more to the story in guys suffering from this supposed issue.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Hi @El Chapo,
> 
> Im 3 weeks into my Test E cycle 600mg each week. Im 20% body fat.
> 
> Shall i cut my body fat down for the next 2 to 3 weeks to try get it to 13% or 15% then clean bulk for rest of the cycle.
> 
> Going for 15 week cycle. I know there is no room after to cut at food needs to be in surplus during PCT.


 I recommend maintenance for PCT not surplus as you will easily gain fat.

I recommend cutting down to 10% and lean bulking to 13%, rinse repeat. I really do not recommend bulking at 20%. No man should be higher than 15%. You can't see muscle separation and you won't get any real benefit to your lifts and strengths either. It's also bad for your health.

I would focus on getting down to 10-12% minimum, then bulk to 13-15% and stay in the 10-15% range year round. You will always look good and feel good. Being at 20% or higher means you are looking at 6 months or more of cutting to get lean again.

If i were you, i would start cutting now and not stop till i got to 10-12%.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @Elchicanoloco how long is bacteriostatic water good for, once opened? I read one month somewhere


 Forever. Bac water is just sterile water with Benzyl Alcohol added to it at .9%. The BA keeps bacteria from growing in it, same reason it's used in AAS oils. I've used 3 year old bac water without any issues.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Forever. Bac water is just sterile water with Benzyl Alcohol added to it at .9%. The BA keeps bacteria from growing in it, same reason it's used in AAS oils. I've used 3 year old bac water without any issues.


 Glad someone with some knowledge has finally said this, I've used out of date bac water loads of times and used it over the course of several months at room temperature without any issues but people seem to sh1t themselves over it.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Glad someone with some knowledge has finally said this, I've used out of date bac water loads of times and used it over the course of several months at room temperature without any issues but people seem to sh1t themselves over it.


 Fear mongering is everywhere in the UG bodybuilding scene. Lots of bad info/non-sense out there.


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> I recommend maintenance for PCT not surplus as you will easily gain fat.
> 
> I recommend cutting down to 10% and lean bulking to 13%, rinse repeat. I really do not recommend bulking at 20%. No man should be higher than 15%. You can't see muscle separation and you won't get any real benefit to your lifts and strengths either. It's also bad for your health.
> 
> I would focus on getting down to 10-12% minimum, then bulk to 13-15% and stay in the 10-15% range year round. You will always look good and feel good. Being at 20% or higher means you are looking at 6 months or more of cutting to get lean again.
> 
> If i were you, i would start cutting now and not stop till i got to 10-12%.


 Thanks for the response. Shall i start cutting now eventhough ive just started a cycle?

Use to cycle to cut and gain lean muscle?

Or, give up the cycle before i get too deep and cut and then start the cycle again when im like 10% body-fat.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Thanks for the response. Shall i start cutting now eventhough ive just started a cycle?
> 
> Use to cycle to cut and gain lean muscle?
> 
> Or, give up the cycle before i get too deep and cut and then start the cycle again when im like 10% body-fat.


 Depends, how much muscle are you holding on to now? That's why i ask for stats. If you are holding a good amount of muscle, you might need to run AAS to preserve it while you cut.

Need more info...


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> Depends, how much muscle are you holding on to now? That's why i ask for stats. If you are holding a good amount of muscle, you might need to run AAS to preserve it while you cut.
> 
> Need more info...


 See attached images. A machine i use at a research centre. Nice bit of kit, cost around £14k for the centre.

Lifting for a few year. Done a few light cycles a few years ago. Not touched ASS in a few years.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Big Ian said:


> Glad someone with some knowledge has finally said this, I've used out of date bac water loads of times and used it over the course of several months at room temperature without any issues but people seem to sh1t themselves over it.


 Yep, I'm glad I asked :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> See attached images. A machine i use at a research centre. Nice bit of kit, cost around £14k for the centre.
> 
> Lifting for a few year. Done a few light cycles a few years ago. Not touched ASS in a few years.
> 
> View attachment 175753
> 
> 
> View attachment 175755


 If your stats are accurate, i would suggest some AAS to cut. 150-300 mg test+50 mg winstrol will be more than adequate. Run HCG since you do PCT so that recovery is better.

Get yourself under 15% and stay there forever. Better aesthetics and health await you at 7-15% body fat.


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo

first off thank you for this. What an amazing thread. Learnt so much.

You mention cut to 10% then clean bulk to 13% and repeat. Can you list your top 3 lead bulk cycles please? + rough duration and doses.

They're SO many options it's hard to know. Would be great to get your view on which 3 you personally like best, or maybe you have one that's tried and tested. I know diet is key, but of course a cycle would be a big bonus to lean bulk effectively.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> What's your cycle history and stats?
> 
> Superdrol blows dbol out of the water. Superdrol will make you hard, dry and pumped with big strength increases. Dbol can add a lot of water and can cause gyno.
> 
> If you are gyno prone, stay away from deca, dbol and tren.
> 
> I would stick to testosterone and winstrol or superdrol. The dose of each depends on cycle history, stats, goals, etc.


 Ran some pretty harsh tran deca oxy cycles etc last year, so looking for something to add strength and size that isn't as harsh, I know SD can be very hars and winny too, which is why I conidered doing higer test + dbol or test + eq or deca


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> first off thank you for this. What an amazing thread. Learnt so much.
> 
> You mention cut to 10% then clean bulk to 13% and repeat. Can you list your top 3 lead bulk cycles please? + rough duration and doses.
> 
> They're SO many options it's hard to know. Would be great to get your view on which 3 you personally like best, or maybe you have one that's tried and tested. I know diet is key, but of course a cycle would be a big bonus to lean bulk effectively.


 Many options, but they ALL follow the same principles. 1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus 3. Rest & recovery. Any cycle/stack will work if you follow these fundamentals.

I like to keep things simple and side effects low:

I like test prop thanks to reduced water retention, faster kick in time, and more effective at lower doses than longer esters. This is the base. You can run anywhere from 300-1 gram as a base. You can pass a gram if you are advanced/elite and have a lot of experience. Most people will never need more than this much and many times are using high doses as a crutch for poor fundamentals and/or poor genetics.

Winstrol/superdrol are the most effect AAS in my experience with very minimal side effects. They build a lot of strength, as well as dry/lean tissue without excess water weight/bloating. These you can run at 50-100 mg daily for oral winstrol or 20-40 mg for oral superdrol. For injectable, 50-100 mg winstrol /split x 3 per week or 40-80 mg superdrol.

I've had many people PM me thanking me after trying these stacks with great results. 100% of your results will come from following the 3 fundamentals of bodybuilding/powerlifting, AAS just increase how high you can go and how fast you get there.

Tren/Deca can be effective compounds but they have a lot of side effects and are extremely suppressive (for those who care about fertility or plan on PCT). They can be good compounds for people who respond well with minimal side effects and aren't worried about PCT/fertility. Some guys are forcing themselves to take tren/deca when it has a very negative effect on their quality of life, sleep, and sex life when it's unnecessary.

P.S.

Adding HGH can increase the effectiveness of AAS. So you have more muscle and strength on much lower doses. Many pros get away with cruising on lower doses thanks to the addition of HGH.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Ran some pretty harsh tran deca oxy cycles etc last year, so looking for something to add strength and size that isn't as harsh, I know SD can be very hars and winny too, which is why I conidered doing higer test + dbol or test + eq or deca


 What do you mean by harsh? Effect on lipids? That's expected and will happen even on high testosterone doses.

Don't worry about the lipid effect unless you are running 24/7 year round. Bad lipids take decades to have a negative effects on cardiovascular health. It's not something that will acutely impact your health.

Deca has been linked to some weird effects on the heart as well. Don't worry about it so much, just be sensible with your doses/length of cycles, keep BP in range and do cardio year round. Preferably stay under 15% body fat so you look awesome and stay healthier.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> What do you mean by harsh? Effect on lipids? That's expected and will happen even on high testosterone doses.
> 
> Don't worry about the lipid effect unless you are running 24/7 year round. Bad lipids take decades to have a negative effects on cardiovascular health. It's not something that will acutely impact your health.
> 
> Deca has been linked to some weird effects on the heart as well. Don't worry about it so much, just be sensible with your doses/length of cycles, keep BP in range and do cardio year round. Preferably stay under 15% body fat so you look awesome and stay healthier.


 Tren has some direct effects on arteries, and I heard that Sdrol is very taxing for the body compared to Dbol - I would love to do winny but my joints cant take it


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Tren has some direct effects on arteries, and I heard that Sdrol is very taxing for the body compared to Dbol - I would love to do winny but my joints cant take it


 All androgens have direct effects on arteries. Androgens can have a protective or detrimental effect on the cardiovascular system depending on the dosage.

Studies like the "deca is toxic to the heart" are done "in vitro" AKA test tubes/on cells, not in a living organism. The AAS behave much more differently in human serum as they are bound to proteins like SHBG/Albumin, metabolized into weaker compounds, etc.

Superdrol can cause fatigue/appetite loss but we don't know if it's really more or less toxic than dbol.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo What do you think of peptides like : MT2 and PT-141?

MT2 gives me good libido boost which is a good side effects , the problem is I'm already tanned and I don't want to be more but the libido boost 3-4 hours after jab Is quite interesting and I'm thinking of buying PT-141 .

Problem is I read on some sites that even PT-141 was used for better tan , so I don't get it.. isn't it supposed to be libido boost without the MT2 tanning effect?

Do you have some experience with those ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo What do you think of peptides like : MT2 and PT-141?
> 
> MT2 gives me good libido boost which is a good side effects , the problem is I'm already tanned and I don't want to be more but the libido boost 3-4 hours after jab Is quite interesting and I'm thinking of buying PT-141 .
> 
> Problem is I read on some sites that even PT-141 was used for better tan , so I don't get it.. isn't it supposed to be libido boost without the MT2 tanning effect?
> 
> Do you have some experience with those ?


 PT-141 has the libido promoting effect of MT2, it's made from MT2.

It should not tan you. I do not have personal experience with either.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo is there any point in doing localized HGH intramuscular injections near the site of an injury?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> All androgens have direct effects on arteries. Androgens can have a protective or detrimental effect on the cardiovascular system depending on the dosage.
> 
> Studies like the "deca is toxic to the heart" are done "in vitro" AKA test tubes/on cells, not in a living organism. The AAS behave much more differently in human serum as they are bound to proteins like SHBG/Albumin, metabolized into weaker compounds, etc.
> 
> Superdrol can cause fatigue/appetite loss but we don't know if it's really more or less toxic than dbol.


 But you do agree tho that tren is one of the harshest steroids? You think it should be used for competitors only or is it worth using for average steroid users?

How does 750mg test + 250 deca + 10mg SD sound? Ran 400test 500tren, does it even compare in terms of strength gains?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo is there any point in doing localized HGH intramuscular injections near the site of an injury?


 No, it's also a good idea to start HGH as soon as you can. If you're going to have surgery, 4 weeks before. It takes this long for IGF-1 levels to reach close to their peak.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> But you do agree tho that tren is one of the harshest steroids? You think it should be used for competitors only or is it worth using for average steroid users?
> 
> How does 750mg test + 250 deca + 10mg SD sound? Ran 400test 500tren, does it even compare in terms of strength gains?


 Harsh is a relative word. In terms of side effects, i would say it's the harshest (insomnia, indigestion, erectile dysfunction, gyno, etc). It's also one of the most potent at Knocking down HDL levels.

It depends on your goals, you can get the freaky look from winstrol/sdrol as well. I don't recommend tren for most people regardless, but some people are very good responders and feel great on it, you wouldn't know until you try it.

The stack will depend on your response, some guys get very strong on tren, others don't.

I would bump Sdrol to 20 mg, deca to 300 mg and test down to 700. The stack should be very powerful and effective. I would expect more strength than the test/tren stack but only one way to find out.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Harsh is a relative word. In terms of side effects, i would say it's the harshest (insomnia, indigestion, erectile dysfunction, gyno, etc). It's also one of the most potent at Knocking down HDL levels.
> 
> It depends on your goals, you can get the freaky look from winstrol/sdrol as well. I don't recommend tren for most people regardless, but some people are very good responders and feel great on it, you wouldn't know until you try it.
> 
> The stack will depend on your response, some guys get very strong on tren, others don't.
> 
> I would bump Sdrol to 20 mg, deca to 300 mg and test down to 700. The stack should be very powerful and effective. I would expect more strength than the test/tren stack but only one way to find out.


 thank you man!

I feel great on 500mg tren, but im very worried about the brain long term effects and cardiac effects, I guess deca, sdrol is more can be taxing while taken it, but not as bad long term as tren?


----------



## swole troll

About to start up cialis again for the cardiovascular and bp benefits (plus the pump, no pun intended)

Since reading into it again I've found some sites suggesting that there is actually a positive impact on muscle gains by taking cialis pre wo

Is this simply through vasodilation and pump or is there some other mechanism at play?

Also what dose do you suggest? I've always gone with 10mg eod


----------



## Alibab2001

@El Chapo could you give me your views on my blood results. I'm currently running 250mg test e per week and 3iu GH per day, no AI's. I am due to donate blood this weekend - which will hopefully help with the high haemoglobin/HCT results. Thanks in advance.

Red Blood Cells

Haemoglobin X 183 g/L (Range: 130 - 170)

Haematocrit X 0.546 L/L (Range: 0.38 - 0.5)

Red Cell Count 5.78 x10^12/L (Range: 4.4 - 5.8)

MCV 94.5 fl (Range: 81 - 98)

MCH 31.7 pg (Range: 27 - 33)

MCHC 336 g/L (Range: 300 - 350)

RDW 12.5 % (Range: 11.5 - 14.4)

White Blood Cells

White Cell Count 6.62 x10^9/L (Range: 3 - 10)

Neutrophils 3.66 x10^9/L (Range: 2 - 7.5)

Lymphocytes 1.76 x10^9/L (Range: 1.2 - 3.65)

Monocytes 0.89 x10^9/L (Range: 0.2 - 1)

Eosinophils 0.17 x10^9/L (Range: 0 - 0.4)

Basophils 0.1 x10^9/L (Range: 0 - 0.1)

Clotting Status

Platelet Count 259 x10^9/L (Range: 150 - 400)

MPV 11.1 fl (Range: 7 - 13)

Kidney Health

Urea 6.3 mmol/L (Range: 2.5 - 7.8)

Creatinine 104 umol/L (Range: 59 - 104)

eGFR 66.41 ml/min/1.73m2 (Range: ? 60)

Liver Health

ALP 118 IU/L (Range: < 130)

ALT X 97.6 IU/L (Range: < 50)

GGT 22 IU/L (Range: 10 - 71)

Proteins

Total Protein 72.3 g/L (Range: 60 - 80)

Albumin 44.5 g/L (Range: 35 - 50)

Globulin 27.8 g/L (Range: 19 - 35)

Diabetes

HbA1c 31.31 mmol/mol (Range: 20 - 42)

Cholesterol Status

Total Cholesterol 2.82 mmol/L (Range: 0 - 5)

LDL Cholesterol 0.88 mmol/L (Range: < 3)

Non HDL Cholesterol 1.59 mmol/L (Range: < 4)

HDL Cholesterol 1.23 mmol/L (Range: > 1.1)

Total Cholesterol : HDL 2.29 ratio (Range: < 4)

Triglycerides 1.56 mmol/L (Range: < 1.7)

Muscle Health

Creatine Kinase X 1043 IU/L (Range: 39 - 308)

Iron Status

Iron 18.27 umol/L (Range: 5.8 - 34.5)

Ferritin 60.5 ug/L (Range: 30 - 400)

Thyroid Hormones

TSH 2.46 mIU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)

Free Thyroxine 15.600 pmol/L (Range: 12 - 22)

Hormones

Oestradiol X 229 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)

Testosterone X 83.2 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> About to start up cialis again for the cardiovascular and bp benefits (plus the pump, no pun intended)
> 
> Since reading into it again I've found some sites suggesting that there is actually a positive impact on muscle gains by taking cialis pre wo
> 
> Is this simply through vasodilation and pump or is there some other mechanism at play?
> 
> Also what dose do you suggest? I've always gone with 10mg eod


 So bad that Cialis give me the red face , hard breathing and heavy eye sensation :/ even at 5mg


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> About to start up cialis again for the cardiovascular and bp benefits (plus the pump, no pun intended)
> 
> Since reading into it again I've found some sites suggesting that there is actually a positive impact on muscle gains by taking cialis pre wo
> 
> Is this simply through vasodilation and pump or is there some other mechanism at play?
> 
> Also what dose do you suggest? I've always gone with 10mg eod


 PDE5 inhibition has some interesting effects on the body besides increasing circulation to the penis for erection. There are also studies showing cialis may reverse endothelial damage from diabetes and possibly alleviate/prevent alzheimer's/dementia. (These are rat/mice studies so grain of salt)

I don't know how significant this effect would actually be in real life for increase muscle gains.

"Exposure of C2C12 cells upon increasing tadalafil concentrations (10-7 to 10-6 M) *increased total androgen receptor mRNA and protein expression as well as myogenin protein expression* after 24 and 72 h (2.8 ± 0.4-fold and 1.4 ± 0.02-fold vs. control, respectively, p < 0.05)." From one of those studies, this one being In vitro.

On paper, some stuff looks great for certain applications but in real life they don't work, like grape seed extract being an AI on paper but in real life, it has no AI effect whatseover. I would not expect any significant effect on skeletal muscle gain from tadalafil, i believe if there were a significant enough effect, people would have noticed by now. (Tadalafil use is extremely popular right now among TRT/AAS community)

The dose i suggest is the lowest amount possible you need to get improvement in erectile function. Health males can get away with as low as 2.5 mg ed, or 10-20 mg E2D-E3D. The lower doses lead to less side effects. I can get away with extremely low doses but i have great baseline circulation/erection quality. I am sensitive to tadalafil sides myself (Headaches, nasal congestion, brain fog).


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> @El Chapo could you give me your views on my blood results. I'm currently running 250mg test e per week and 3iu GH per day, no AI's. I am due to donate blood this weekend - which will hopefully help with the high haemoglobin/HCT results. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Red Blood Cells
> 
> Haemoglobin X 183 g/L (Range: 130 - 170)
> 
> Haematocrit X 0.546 L/L (Range: 0.38 - 0.5)
> 
> Red Cell Count 5.78 x10^12/L (Range: 4.4 - 5.8)
> 
> MCV 94.5 fl (Range: 81 - 98)
> 
> MCH 31.7 pg (Range: 27 - 33)
> 
> MCHC 336 g/L (Range: 300 - 350)
> 
> RDW 12.5 % (Range: 11.5 - 14.4)
> 
> White Blood Cells
> 
> White Cell Count 6.62 x10^9/L (Range: 3 - 10)
> 
> Neutrophils 3.66 x10^9/L (Range: 2 - 7.5)
> 
> Lymphocytes 1.76 x10^9/L (Range: 1.2 - 3.65)
> 
> Monocytes 0.89 x10^9/L (Range: 0.2 - 1)
> 
> Eosinophils 0.17 x10^9/L (Range: 0 - 0.4)
> 
> Basophils 0.1 x10^9/L (Range: 0 - 0.1)
> 
> Clotting Status
> 
> Platelet Count 259 x10^9/L (Range: 150 - 400)
> 
> MPV 11.1 fl (Range: 7 - 13)
> 
> Kidney Health
> 
> Urea 6.3 mmol/L (Range: 2.5 - 7.8)
> 
> Creatinine 104 umol/L (Range: 59 - 104)
> 
> eGFR 66.41 ml/min/1.73m2 (Range: ? 60)
> 
> Liver Health
> 
> ALP 118 IU/L (Range: < 130)
> 
> ALT X 97.6 IU/L (Range: < 50)
> 
> GGT 22 IU/L (Range: 10 - 71)
> 
> Proteins
> 
> Total Protein 72.3 g/L (Range: 60 - 80)
> 
> Albumin 44.5 g/L (Range: 35 - 50)
> 
> Globulin 27.8 g/L (Range: 19 - 35)
> 
> Diabetes
> 
> HbA1c 31.31 mmol/mol (Range: 20 - 42)
> 
> Cholesterol Status
> 
> Total Cholesterol 2.82 mmol/L (Range: 0 - 5)
> 
> LDL Cholesterol 0.88 mmol/L (Range: < 3)
> 
> Non HDL Cholesterol 1.59 mmol/L (Range: < 4)
> 
> HDL Cholesterol 1.23 mmol/L (Range: > 1.1)
> 
> Total Cholesterol : HDL 2.29 ratio (Range: < 4)
> 
> Triglycerides 1.56 mmol/L (Range: < 1.7)
> 
> Muscle Health
> 
> Creatine Kinase X 1043 IU/L (Range: 39 - 308)
> 
> Iron Status
> 
> Iron 18.27 umol/L (Range: 5.8 - 34.5)
> 
> Ferritin 60.5 ug/L (Range: 30 - 400)
> 
> Thyroid Hormones
> 
> TSH 2.46 mIU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)
> 
> Free Thyroxine 15.600 pmol/L (Range: 12 - 22)
> 
> Hormones
> 
> Oestradiol X 229 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
> 
> Testosterone X 83.2 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)


 How many days after injection did you draw blood?

Everything looks fine, Liver enzyme/creatine kinase can be elevated from a hard workout, did you train recently before the blood was drawn? (same week or few days before)

One blood donation will get you back in range, should drop HCT by 2-3%. You might want to take an iron supplement as your ferritin is in the low optimal range (60-90 is a good level). Donating will drop ferritin/iron a bit. You might have to donate again in 8-16 weeks depending on how fast your body produces more RBC. Make sure you are well hydrated for your blood tests as even slight dehydration can make HCT/HGB appear a bit higher.

E2 looks good, Testosterone is higher than necessary for TRT. Are you trying to run TRT or cruise? You can keep your levels that high, just keep an eye on BP.

Thyroid is a bit sluggish, you can see that with the TSH/Free T4 and the lower than average GFR (kidney function). Do you have any symptoms like fatigue, constipation, trouble waking up/crashing in the afternoon, sensitivity to cold, puffy face?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> So bad that Cialis give me the red face , hard breathing and heavy eye sensation :/ even at 5mg


 Some guys get weird side effects from cialis, i'm one of them. Fortunately, i do not need it at all so i don't take it.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Some guys get weird side effects from cialis, i'm one of them. Fortunately, i do not need it at all so i don't take it.


 I was speaking purely from an arterial health perspective when I was talking about supplementing cialis

I thought you were a proponent of cialis for this reason?

I've never had ED issues in my life so only ever used viagra and cialis as pump products and for health purposes


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> I was speaking purely from an arterial health perspective when I was talking about supplementing cialis
> 
> I thought you were a proponent of cialis for this reason?
> 
> I've never had ED issues in my life so only ever used viagra and cialis as pump products and for health purposes


 Correct, cialis has enough evidence to strongly support efficacy in increasing cardiovascular health, preventing/reversing endothelial damage.

I would use the doses i recommended in the other post. I don't use it myself as i have bad reactions to it.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Correct, cialis has enough evidence to strongly support efficacy in increasing cardiovascular health, preventing/reversing endothelial damage.
> 
> I would use the doses i recommended in the other post. I don't use it myself as i have bad reactions to it.


 Oddly I get bad breathing, struggle to catch my breath when I run cialis, I figured it was just all the hard work lol...

Side note.

I know you advise staying under 15% bodyfat year round at the highest. I notice that a lot of old school and even current bodybuilders bulk to 280lbs-300lbs (dorians pics make him look ill) and then on stage they are 240-250lbs.

I know they are pros, but couldn't someone like me for instance, get to 110-115kg. Then cut down like a prep to get lean? Isn't there an advantage to a longer bulk, or are you adamant that 15% is where you stop, cut and repeat?

I'm enjoying being injury free, eating and training so wanted to carry on until I'm sick of it, then I'll happily cut down to 10% etc (done it before more than once before I got injured, but never really pushed the bulk. I enjoy cutting lol)

Cheers


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo what sort of test oestrogen ratio do you want whilst on cycle?

you got me thinking when you said the other day slightly elevated estro is a good thing

im currently running test mast and although wake up every morning with a stiffy and have no problem keeping one my sex drive is low


----------



## trio

@El ChapoI have injected for the 2nd time in the upper third of my thigh.

It seemed ok but after a day, my thigh is in pain on the top of my knee. (Not exactly where i injected)

is this quite common then for people to get?


----------



## Alibab2001

ElChapo said:


> How many days after injection did you draw blood?
> 
> Everything looks fine, Liver enzyme/creatine kinase can be elevated from a hard workout, did you train recently before the blood was drawn? (same week or few days before)
> 
> One blood donation will get you back in range, should drop HCT by 2-3%. You might want to take an iron supplement as your ferritin is in the low optimal range (60-90 is a good level). Donating will drop ferritin/iron a bit. You might have to donate again in 8-16 weeks depending on how fast your body produces more RBC. Make sure you are well hydrated for your blood tests as even slight dehydration can make HCT/HGB appear a bit higher.
> 
> E2 looks good, Testosterone is higher than necessary for TRT. Are you trying to run TRT or cruise? You can keep your levels that high, just keep an eye on BP.
> 
> Thyroid is a bit sluggish, you can see that with the TSH/Free T4 and the lower than average GFR (kidney function). Do you have any symptoms like fatigue, constipation, trouble waking up/crashing in the afternoon, sensitivity to cold, puffy face?


 @ElChapo Draw was 60 hours after injection. I trained 2days prior and did a 10 mile hike day before. I will supplement iron and recheck to get in the range. I will also get another draw after donating to check HCT/HGB and make sure I'm well hydrated.

I am cruising, BP I test regular and currently ranges from 125-135/65-75

I do occasionally struggle to get up/crash in afternoons - I've recently cut caffeine out after 2pm to see if this would help.

Many many thanks for your views.


----------



## zariph

How bad us tren actually on the bran? I know it kills brain cells + increased beta-amyloid which is the cause of alzheimer - how serious is this? Lastly, I hear that tren lowers thyroid, is there any way to combat this, and how fast will you bounce back to normal thyroid after stop using tren?

Do you think running deca with winny will help the joint issues on winny? 500test 600deca 50 winny?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo do you feel it is a waste of time to eat at a caloric maintenance year round in order to gain lean tissue and maintain the same low bodyfat year round? Obviously it would technically be a slight surplus if lean tissue is gained but I'm talking around 4/5lbs gained per year.

Some people manage to build muscle in a caloric deficit when anabolics, training and nutrition are all in order so I wonder if this is a sensible approach or would it be much less effective than bulk then cut? Progressive overload and sufficient rest would be applied and GH used also at 3iu daily for the year. (Blast & cruise also)

I don't like my physique when bodyfat gets above 10/12% as I prefer to maintain a lean physique. (dry striated muscle, leaner face, abs etc)


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Oddly I get bad breathing, struggle to catch my breath when I run cialis, I figured it was just all the hard work lol...
> 
> Side note.
> 
> I know you advise staying under 15% bodyfat year round at the highest. I notice that a lot of old school and even current bodybuilders bulk to 280lbs-300lbs (dorians pics make him look ill) and then on stage they are 240-250lbs.
> 
> I know they are pros, but couldn't someone like me for instance, get to 110-115kg. Then cut down like a prep to get lean? Isn't there an advantage to a longer bulk, or are you adamant that 15% is where you stop, cut and repeat?
> 
> I'm enjoying being injury free, eating and training so wanted to carry on until I'm sick of it, then I'll happily cut down to 10% etc (done it before more than once before I got injured, but never really pushed the bulk. I enjoy cutting lol)
> 
> Cheers


 Zero advantage, notice most pros stay relatively lean nowadays. All a long bulk does for you is make you have to cut for months to get lean again. The fatter you are, the less insulin sensitivity you have, and we know how powerful insulin is for building muscle.

What you want to do is fine too. If you have great momentum on your bulk and are building quality muscle/strength, then no reason to stop either. I know for myself, 3-6 months of cutting can get old and takes away time i could be using relaxing at maintenance or lean bulking building strength/muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo what sort of test oestrogen ratio do you want whilst on cycle?
> 
> you got me thinking when you said the other day slightly elevated estro is a good thing
> 
> im currently running test mast and although wake up every morning with a stiffy and have no problem keeping one my sex drive is low


 If you knock down E2 too much, you lose the benefits of testosterone as proven by anecdotes from TRT/AAS users, and multiple studies showing AI use reversed the positive effects of TRT on fat loss and "normal" and low E2 linked to much lower libido than "high" E2.

The 20-30 pg/mL range of E2 is based on men with average testosterone levels of 500 ng/dL (middle of the range). Higher testosterone correlates with higher E2.

Everyone is different, some guys do better with lower E2 levels, most will find that high-normal is best for mood and libido. We are all different with different sensitivities at the ER receptors and AR receptors.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El ChapoI have injected for the 2nd time in the upper third of my thigh.
> 
> It seemed ok but after a day, my thigh is in pain on the top of my knee. (Not exactly where i injected)
> 
> is this quite common then for people to get?


 Yes, the oil can gravitate down from the injection site. It's rare for it to travel down that far. It probably won't happen again .

Look into the ventrogluteal injection site, the best currently recommended injection site for IM by the latest medical literature. Very low risk of PIP thanks to low nerve/blood vessel density in that area.


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> @ElChapo Draw was 60 hours after injection. I trained 2days prior and did a 10 mile hike day before. I will supplement iron and recheck to get in the range. I will also get another draw after donating to check HCT/HGB and make sure I'm well hydrated.
> 
> I am cruising, BP I test regular and currently ranges from 125-135/65-75
> 
> I do occasionally struggle to get up/crash in afternoons - I've recently cut caffeine out after 2pm to see if this would help.
> 
> Many many thanks for your views.


 Everything sounds great.

Cutting out caffeine likely won't help. Keep an eye on the thyroid axis (TSH/Free T4/Free T3)


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> How bad us tren actually on the bran? I know it kills brain cells + increased beta-amyloid which is the cause of alzheimer - how serious is this? Lastly, I hear that tren lowers thyroid, is there any way to combat this, and how fast will you bounce back to normal thyroid after stop using tren?
> 
> Do you think running deca with winny will help the joint issues on winny? 500test 600deca 50 winny?


 You can't extrapolate those studies to humans as they are based on test tube studies and rodent studies at much higher doses than an AAS user would experience. I'm not a fan of Tren myself but i am doubtful that it would "kill brain cells" in humans at the doses used.

All AAS can impair thyroid activity by inhibiting thyroid binding globulin levels in the blood, it may be that tren is very good at this. I'm not 100% sure it actually happens. You will find that most guys taking tren have no issue losing body fat, so i wouldn't worry about it "lowering thyroid".

Possibly, some people like the Deca/Winstrol combo for that reason. It may help. I also have a theory that low/suboptimal vitamin D levels may be involved in people with joint pain from winstrol. (From a study where people got joint pain with Low E2 only with low Vitamin D levels, just extrapolating, but i never had issues with joint pain on winstrol and i keep my vitamin D up year round)


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo do you feel it is a waste of time to eat at a caloric maintenance year round in order to gain lean tissue and maintain the same low bodyfat year round? Obviously it would technically be a slight surplus if lean tissue is gained but I'm talking around 4/5lbs gained per year.
> 
> Some people manage to build muscle in a caloric deficit when anabolics, training and nutrition are all in order so I wonder if this is a sensible approach or would it be much less effective than bulk then cut? Progressive overload and sufficient rest would be applied and GH used also at 3iu daily for the year. (Blast & cruise also)
> 
> I don't like my physique when bodyfat gets above 10/12% as I prefer to maintain a lean physique. (dry striated muscle, leaner face, abs etc)


 Most people building muscle in the deficit are either novice-intermediate level in training or AAS useage or starting at high body fat %. Sometimes it's even just muscle memory.

It's much more efficient to eat at a very low surplus and build muscle slowly while staying relatively lean. It's more easy to stay the same body fat while slowly building muscle and staying lean means you look good all the time so there's no rush to build muscle fast, you can take your time and enjoy the process. The little amount of fat you might gain will be torched off quickly with a very fast cut (3-5 weeks).

Even with progressive overload/rest/GH+AAS, the body needs energy/protein/etc to build new muscle tissue. In people who build muscle while cutting, it appears the body uses fat as an energy source and uses protein efficiently.

In your situation, i would bulk/cut in the 7-12% range. Some people notice that putting on muscle around 6-8% is very slow as the body tends to be weaker and have a slower metabolism at this level. If staying lean is a priority, add a tiny deficit of 250 calories and adjust if weight gains is too fast/slow.


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> Yes, the oil can gravitate down from the injection site. It's rare for it to travel down that far. It probably won't happen again .
> 
> Look into the ventrogluteal injection site, the best currently recommended injection site for IM by the latest medical literature. Very low risk of PIP thanks to low nerve/blood vessel density in that area.


 Thanks for getting back to me so soon.

The swelling has doubled in size, i cant support weight on it or walk up and down stairs. Its warm to the touch, not red hot but warmer than the non-swolen side. Shall i just keep blasting the ibruprofen and wish for luck?

At what symptons would you go to the ER/A&E?


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo

Does Winny have any place in a bulk. I'm 10 weeks into Test and Deca and thinking of adding in 25mg of Pharmacom Oil Winne every day to see what the effects will be.

What's your thoughts? Looking to gain strength and maximise any lean tissue gains.


----------



## Phil114

Hi Elchapo, I am currently on 300mg of test e a week and I am currently struggling to get an erection (I can just about get a semi) now I have ordered my next round of bloods but would cilas be ok to use until these are done and what dose should this be run at? Would it still work even though I am struggling to get anywhere near an erection? In the space of a week I have gone from everything working as normal to this (currently get no morning wood . I've attached my bloods from August when everything downstairs was fine and this was on 300mg test and 0.5 ai a week which I stopped after this and I started to use vitamin E and Vit B6 to try and lower my prolactin which was slightly out. Appreciate any input you have on this and sorry for the life story.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Thanks for getting back to me so soon.
> 
> The swelling has doubled in size, i cant support weight on it or walk up and down stairs. Its warm to the touch, not red hot but warmer than the non-swolen side. Shall i just keep blasting the ibruprofen and wish for luck?
> 
> At what symptons would you go to the ER/A&E?


 It's not going to be an infection, you have similar symptoms to your glute shot.

Most guys only need to go the ER if an abcess forms. PIP has similar symptoms to infection like malaise, fatigue, pain, red/swelling/etc. Your oil might be overdosed.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Does Winny have any place in a bulk. I'm 10 weeks into Test and Deca and thinking of adding in 25mg of Pharmacom Oil Winne every day to see what the effects will be.
> 
> What's your thoughts? Looking to gain strength and maximise any lean tissue gains.


 Yes, winstrol is awesome for bulking. Keeps you dry and makes you strong.

Winstrol will do you very well. I would run it at least 8 weeks to build real lean tissue.


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Hi Elchapo, I am currently on 300mg of test e a week and I am currently struggling to get an erection (I can just about get a semi) now I have ordered my next round of bloods but would cilas be ok to use until these are done and what dose should this be run at? Would it still work even though I am struggling to get anywhere near an erection? In the space of a week I have gone from everything working as normal to this (currently get no morning wood . I've attached my bloods from August when everything downstairs was fine and this was on 300mg test and 0.5 ai a week which I stopped after this and I started to use vitamin E and Vit B6 to try and lower my prolactin which was slightly out. Appreciate any input you have on this and sorry for the life story.
> 
> View attachment 175927


 How many weeks into AI and test were these labs drawn? E2 was already at the bottom of the range.

The AI is the most likely culprit. You can take either 5 mg cialis daily or 20 mg x 2 per week.


----------



## Phil114

Hi ElChapo, these were 7 week in and as estrogen was at the bottom range that's why it was took out. I had high estrogen before that about 4 months ago and it was around 320 and didnt suffer any problems downstairs. I introduce an AI to lower this hence the above and then took it back out. What cialis protocol would be best to keep everything downstairs working most of the time? Will it still work even though I can only get a semi on ?(yeah I know that sounds a bit gay)


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Hi ElChapo, these were 7 week in and as estrogen was at the bottom range that's why it was took out. I had high estrogen before that about 4 months ago and it was around 320 and didnt suffer any problems downstairs. I introduce an AI to lower this hence the above and then took it back out. What cialis protocol would be best to keep everything downstairs working most of the time? Will it still work even though I can only get a semi on ?(yeah I know that sounds a bit gay)


 Don't worry about elevated estrogen so much, as you can see, you felt fine with "high estrogen". Estrogen will almost always be high with high testosterone. Testosterone only works because it converts to DHT/E2 and a bunch of other metabolites. You can see what happens when men take finasteride or anastrazole.

For erectile dysfunction or BPH, 5 mg daily or 20 mg x 2-3 per week. To improve already normal/healthy erections or for health benefits 2.5 mg daily, 5 mg x 3 per week, 10 mg x 2 per week are good doses.

It should work for you but it depends. Only one way to find out. Most of the people who it doesn't work for have severe circulatory problems down there. Knocking down E2 does more harm than good, even when you stay in the "normal" range.


----------



## Phil114

Thanks, What else should I be looking out for on the blood test to identify the problem? Is Cialis best taken on an empty stomach?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Harsh is a relative word. In terms of side effects, i would say it's the harshest (insomnia, indigestion, erectile dysfunction, gyno, etc). It's also one of the most potent at Knocking down HDL levels.
> 
> It depends on your goals, you can get the freaky look from winstrol/sdrol as well. I don't recommend tren for most people regardless, but some people are very good responders and feel great on it, you wouldn't know until you try it.
> 
> The stack will depend on your response, some guys get very strong on tren, others don't.
> 
> I would bump Sdrol to 20 mg, deca to 300 mg and test down to 700. The stack should be very powerful and effective. I would expect more strength than the test/tren stack but only one way to find out.


 Thank you mate!

So you dont really think that tren is much worse than other stuff for long term damage really?

100x 10mg wins, will this be enough to do anything or should I invest in more, adding it to test+deca


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you mate!
> 
> So you dont really think that tren is much worse than other stuff for long term damage really?
> 
> 100x 10mg wins, will this be enough to do anything or should I invest in more, adding it to test+deca


 I said we don't know. It's likely to be one of the worst AAS for health. It's a very powerful androgen and also a progestin. It's one of the strongest at suppressing endogenous testosterone production/fertility, depressing HDL levels, and can even increase liver enzymes in some people.

Depends on how much you are running. For bodybuilding, 50-100 mg daily for 8-12 weeks for best results.


----------



## Playtowin

ElChapo said:


> Yes, winstrol is awesome for bulking. Keeps you dry and makes you strong.
> 
> Winstrol will do you very well. I would run it at least 8 weeks to build real lean tissue.


 Thanks mate. I've got some lovely NP Tbol. I don't want to go above .5ml of Winny as it's expensive and fu**ing stings, so would adding 40/60mg of Tbol daily help too or am I overdoing it? @El Chapo


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Thanks mate. I've got some lovely NP Tbol. I don't want to go above .5ml of Winny as it's expensive and fu**ing stings, so would adding 40/60mg of Tbol daily help too or am I overdoing it? @El Chapo


 The more, the better to an extent. It really depends on your experience/muscularity level.


----------



## Playtowin

Test 750

Tren 300

Deca 600

Winny 25mg

Tbol 40mg

Sounds great haha


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> It's not going to be an infection, you have similar symptoms to your glute shot.
> 
> Most guys only need to go the ER if an abcess forms. PIP has similar symptoms to infection like malaise, fatigue, pain, red/swelling/etc. Your oil might be overdosed.


 It was not red this morning, thats around the knee cap. Its hot to touch and i literally cant walk. Im coming down with a fever since lunch time today and feel like ive got the flu. The jab was Wednesday morning? Im worried.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Test 750
> 
> Tren 300
> 
> Deca 600
> 
> Winny 25mg
> 
> Tbol 40mg
> 
> Sounds great haha


 Like said, more is better only if you have the experience and muscularity level to put it to work. Otherwise, it's a waste of money and more risk of side effects/negative health outcomes.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> It was not red this morning, thats around the knee cap. Its hot to touch and i literally cant walk. Im coming down with a fever since lunch time today and feel like ive got the flu. The jab was Wednesday morning? Im worried.
> 
> View attachment 175949


 That's normal for PIP flu. Where in the quad did you inject? That seems to be the behind the knee. Did you injection closer to the hamstrings?

If this AAS was contaminated with pathogens, your glute would be messed up right now but the glute pip went away correct?

It's likely that the AAS was poorly brewed ( too much raw powder, too little solvent, etc). You can order sterile oil from a lab supply company and cut the AAS down.


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> That's normal for PIP flu. Where in the quad did you inject? That seems to be the behind the knee. Did you injection closer to the hamstrings?
> 
> If this AAS was contaminated with pathogens, your glute would be messed up right now but the glute pip went away correct?
> 
> It's likely that the AAS was poorly brewed ( too much raw powder, too little solvent, etc). You can order sterile oil from a lab supply company and cut the AAS down.


 Currently sat in a hospital bed on an IV drip, Anti-biotic drip and paracetamol. They took my bloods and said that i have an infection. They are saying either cellulitus or septic-athritis joint. Waiting on my Xray results and they put blood in some vials to see what grows. If it is septic-athritis joint they will asperate and check the fluid. If its cellulitus then ill be on my tomorrow with more anti-biotics. Fingers crossed. I injected top left outer quad. Just said it was a B12 injection, dont want a steroid marker on my record.


----------



## cell-tech

@El Chapo

I know youre not a fan of mk677 however, im taking 5iu of gh EOD and thinking of adding 25mg mk677 EOD with it because i cant afford 4-5 iu of pharma GH per day.

Would this low dose of mk677 still cause problems or would it be fine to increase igf1 numbers with less risks than using twice the dose (of the mk677)?

Also can you please advise the best protocol in getting a GH blood test? Should i take blood immediately after pinning the GH or wait a day?(finger pr**k test)


----------



## Playtowin

ElChapo said:


> Yes, winstrol is awesome for bulking. Keeps you dry and makes you strong.
> 
> Winstrol will do you very well. I would run it at least 8 weeks to build real lean tissue.


 Last on from me @El Chapo

Whats Sdrol like compared for Winnie in this situation?

Want to add Var at 50mg and Winnie at 40mg or Sdrol at 20mg.

What's the best combination there for lean tissue growth? Providing everything else is in check of course?


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Currently sat in a hospital bed on an IV drip, Anti-biotic drip and paracetamol. They took my bloods and said that i have an infection. They are saying either cellulitus or septic-athritis joint. Waiting on my Xray results and they put blood in some vials to see what grows. If it is septic-athritis joint they will asperate and check the fluid. If its cellulitus then ill be on my tomorrow with more anti-biotics. Fingers crossed. I injected top left outer quad. Just said it was a B12 injection, dont want a steroid marker on my record.


 Doubtful, the glute injection would have abscessed by now. Sadly, the UK med system is pretty lacking ( USA is a joke as well ).

They don't know how to respond to injection PIP, it's not something they learn in school. I'm 90% sure you don't have an infection. It has all the signs of infection so i don't blame them since B12 injections will never lead to those signs/symptoms without being an infection. AAS oil PIP can cause all the same s/s as infection.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I know youre not a fan of mk677 however, im taking 5iu of gh EOD and thinking of adding 25mg mk677 EOD with it because i cant afford 4-5 iu of pharma GH per day.
> 
> Would this low dose of mk677 still cause problems or would it be fine to increase igf1 numbers with less risks than using twice the dose (of the mk677)?
> 
> Also can you please advise the best protocol in getting a GH blood test? Should i take blood immediately after pinning the GH or wait a day?(finger pr**k test)


 I wouldn't say i'm not a fan. I'd rather just use straight GH. MK677 can be a cost-effective way to increase GH if you are a good responder but it's also a ghrelin mimetic so some people get very hungry on it.

What are you using the GH for? 3-4 IU is enough for most people, but it depends on your goals.

Are you trying to test if your GH is legit or you want to see how well you are responding? You should draw blood 3-4 hours after injecting 10 IU in one shot intramuscularly. GH serum levels should be around 15-30 ng/mL for legit GH. If you want to test IGF-1 levels, test after 4 weeks of GH useage. You should get around 100 ng/mL per IU of GH. So 3-4 IU should get you to about 300-400 ng/mL fo IGF-1.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Last on from me @El Chapo
> 
> Whats Sdrol like compared for Winnie in this situation?
> 
> Want to add Var at 50mg and Winnie at 40mg or Sdrol at 20mg.
> 
> What's the best combination there for lean tissue growth? Providing everything else is in check of course?


 Sdrol will dry you out less but give you a stronger pump. It still has a moderate drying effect similar to trenbolone but not as strong as winstrol's. They are both extremely effective AAS for cutting and bulking. Sdrol is more likely to cause lethargy and appetite loss. Winstrol's most common sides are stiff muscles and joints.

The combination doesn't matter. Only total dose of AAS, progressive overload, nutrition (calories/etc), and sufficient rest/recovery (muscle only grows during rest, not during training)

You can combo or just take one AAS, the only thing that matters is the total dosage. There won't be any real difference to combining them or just taking one at a higher dose.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't say i'm not a fan. I'd rather just use straight GH. MK677 can be a cost-effective way to increase GH if you are a good responder but it's also a ghrelin mimetic so some people get very hungry on it.
> 
> What are you using the GH for? 3-4 IU is enough for most people, but it depends on your goals.
> 
> Are you trying to test if your GH is legit or you want to see how well you are responding? You should draw blood 3-4 hours after injecting 10 IU in one shot intramuscularly. GH serum levels should be around 15-30 ng/mL for legit GH. If you want to test IGF-1 levels, test after 4 weeks of GH useage. You should get around 100 ng/mL per IU of GH. So 3-4 IU should get you to about 300-400 ng/mL fo IGF-1.


 thank you!

Im using the gh like how you recommended with 150mg test to give similar results/fullness as taking 300mg (have hair loss issues with higher dose test).

My plan is to stay on 150mg permanently (no blasting or other compounds)

would you recommend cycling off the gh every few months or is it fine to stay on permanently ? Also would there be a huge difference between 2.5iu and 4iu per day?

i heard 4iu is the sweet spot thats why i want to increase from 2.5. My goals aren't gaining freaky size etc just staying lean at 80kg (5ft 8)


----------



## Jaling

trio said:


> Currently sat in a hospital bed on an IV drip, Anti-biotic drip and paracetamol. They took my bloods and said that i have an infection. They are saying either cellulitus or septic-athritis joint. Waiting on my Xray results and they put blood in some vials to see what grows. If it is septic-athritis joint they will asperate and check the fluid. If its cellulitus then ill be on my tomorrow with more anti-biotics. Fingers crossed. I injected top left outer quad. Just said it was a B12 injection, dont want a steroid marker on my record.


 Was it the steroid injection that caused this?

if so how sterile were you in reality?

washing hands, injecting in clean environment, swabbing vial, clean needle for drawing and clean for injecting, clean alcohol swab on area injected?

im only asking if you did it this way as this is how I do and I go almost always in the quads and do not want this to happen to me.

i hope you recovery fully and fast mate.


----------



## Jaling

@El Chapo

after cutting a few lbs of BF I'm going to do an 8 week blast on

225mg tren a

500mg test p

150mg mast

20mg prov ED

and now thinking of adding oxy in at either 25mg or 50mg ED too.

i responding amazingly to oxy last time, no sides to speak of. And felt energetic hungry and happy.

what are your thoughts?


----------



## trio

Jaling said:


> Was it the steroid injection that caused this?
> 
> if so how sterile were you in reality?
> 
> washing hands, injecting in clean environment, swabbing vial, clean needle for drawing and clean for injecting, clean alcohol swab on area injected?
> 
> im only asking if you did it this way as this is how I do and I go almost always in the quads and do not want this to happen to me.
> 
> i hope you recovery fully and fast mate.


 Hey mate, 4 gram of anti-biotics a day and still contemplating going back as the redness spreads. But, im giving the anti-biotics time to kick in (it will be 48 hours this evening since i started them.

1. I used a green pin to draw (new fresh out packet)

2. I used a blue (new fresh out packet) to inject - this needle did not make contact with anything except my quad.

3. I alcohol wiped my leg before and after, with seperate wipes.

4. I used a seperate alcohol wipe to wipe the top of the bottle before putting the green pin in.

5. I washed my hands with anti-bacteria hand wash before (kills 99.9% of bacteria).

6. I put the needle in the full inch. Aspirated (no blood). Injected counting 60 seconds for 2ml. Waited 30 seconds then pulled out. Was a spec of blood, prob caught a vein on way out) wiped iy and then jumped in shower. I had showered the night before already but wanted another to help with dispersal.

Hope that is informative for you. Lab was: SIS Test Depot 300


----------



## 18557

trio said:


> Hey mate, 4 gram of anti-biotics a day and still contemplating going back as the redness spreads. But, im giving the anti-biotics time to kick in (it will be 48 hours this evening since i started them.
> 
> 1. I used a green pin to draw (new fresh out packet)
> 
> 2. I used a blue (new fresh out packet) to inject - this needle did not make contact with anything except my quad.
> 
> 3. I alcohol wiped my leg before and after, with seperate wipes.
> 
> 4. I used a seperate alcohol wipe to wipe the top of the bottle before putting the green pin in.
> 
> 5. I washed my hands with anti-bacteria hand wash before (kills 99.9% of bacteria).
> 
> 6. I put the needle in the full inch. Aspirated (no blood). Injected counting 60 seconds for 2ml. Waited 30 seconds then pulled out. Was a spec of blood, prob caught a vein on way out) wiped iy and then jumped in shower. I had showered the night before already but wanted another to help with dispersal.
> 
> Hope that is informative for you. Lab was: SIS Test Depot 300


 Sounds like you did everything right mate. I hope it doesn't take too long for things to improve for you. Must be a scary time.


----------



## Playtowin

Can you retain all muscle when cutting with with DNP @El Chapo?

I want to do a cutting stack when my bulk is done and want to kick start with DNP. Around 16/17% body fat

*2/3 weeks 250mg DNP
300mg Test*

*+ Sphinx Cutting stack *

Higenamine 20mg

Yohimbine 20mg

1,3 Dimethylamylamine 20mg

Caffeine 150mg

Do I need to add T3 and or anything else?


----------



## Jaling

trio said:


> Hey mate, 4 gram of anti-biotics a day and still contemplating going back as the redness spreads. But, im giving the anti-biotics time to kick in (it will be 48 hours this evening since i started them.
> 
> 1. I used a green pin to draw (new fresh out packet)
> 
> 2. I used a blue (new fresh out packet) to inject - this needle did not make contact with anything except my quad.
> 
> 3. I alcohol wiped my leg before and after, with seperate wipes.
> 
> 4. I used a seperate alcohol wipe to wipe the top of the bottle before putting the green pin in.
> 
> 5. I washed my hands with anti-bacteria hand wash before (kills 99.9% of bacteria).
> 
> 6. I put the needle in the full inch. Aspirated (no blood). Injected counting 60 seconds for 2ml. Waited 30 seconds then pulled out. Was a spec of blood, prob caught a vein on way out) wiped iy and then jumped in shower. I had showered the night before already but wanted another to help with dispersal.
> 
> Hope that is informative for you. Lab was: SIS Test Depot 300


 I guess this is why they say you can only minimise the risk of infection.

good luck dude


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> thank you!
> 
> Im using the gh like how you recommended with 150mg test to give similar results/fullness as taking 300mg (have hair loss issues with higher dose test).
> 
> My plan is to stay on 150mg permanently (no blasting or other compounds)
> 
> would you recommend cycling off the gh every few months or is it fine to stay on permanently ? Also would there be a huge difference between 2.5iu and 4iu per day?
> 
> i heard 4iu is the sweet spot thats why i want to increase from 2.5. My goals aren't gaining freaky size etc just staying lean at 80kg (5ft 8)


 Permanently is fine. GH recovers when you stop.

2.5 IU should put you around 250 (levels of someone in their 20s) 4 IU will put you around 400 (levels of 15-17 year olds). 2.5 is more for anti-aging, 3-4 IU is more "performance" enhancing. 3-4 IU is a good sweet spot. That's what i run myself.

If you wanna stay lean, figure out your maintenance calories and stick close to that. If you are active by doing cardio, it lets you eat more while staying lean. GH may or may not help you stay leaner, rely 100% on your caloric intake if that's your goal.


----------



## Simon90

Is nebido any good for a cruise?

What's the difference in pinning full 4ml in one go vs pinning a ml a week


----------



## trio

@El Chapo since my absolute dreadful experience with injecting (hospital, antibiotics) which is still outgoing. When im fit and healthy again, im going to trim to 10% BF and then Oral only cycle.

1) What would you recommend to bulk?

2) What you recommend to cut?

Oral only. My Mrs would go next level crazy it i suggest sticking a needle in me anywhere. Imagine the headache ive had since she suggested/outlined all the negative and not to do it blah blah.


----------



## JBlast

I am speaking for recomping or bulking, I know you don't need much stuff for cutting.

High test blasts (>trt dosage per week) vs keeping test low dosage as a base + adding others compounds?

Will I have more benefits for test increasing its dosage? Because some people say test is like a pro hormone for e2 and dht and you should take it enough just to keep your functions normal then adding others compounds more anabolic like Tren npp superdrol winstrol and so on.

What's the best way and why (in your opinion)


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo How do I lower my Cholesterol

I've been on Test 750, Deca 600 and Tren Hex 150

No cardio but I don't smoke or drink

Any help on these bloods would be amazing


----------



## vlb

@ElChapo

Hi mate, hoping you could answer a few questions, i have read your responses throughout the thread and would just like to collate in one place and make sure i am understanding you right.

I am thinking of running HGH, not only for the obvious benefits but others too. I have ran AAS cycles in the past and am currently on 400mg test per week. I think my training and diet are as good as they can be for me, I had back surgery a couple of years ago so training regime revolves around staying injury free.

1) The plan would be to start on a low dose (1iu - 2iu per day with weekends off) until my body began to get used to the additional HGH, i am susceptible to side effects so would rather ease myself in, after which an increase to 4iu per day with weekends off. Does that sound plausable?

2) in one of your previous posts you advised someone to take an initial dose of 10IU and then test for certain levels, was this a way for that person to test for authenticity of the HGH they had bought? if so would they then go down to a smaller daily dose of HGH for the remainder of their course?.

3) Taking it 3 hours prior to bed is your advice?

4) IM injections using 29-31 gauge 1/2 inch needles?

I think that about covers it, thank you so much for your time and advice


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo

is there any advantage to cruising on something other than test ?

would you add anything to a cruise dose if running dnp (2-400mg) ?

Thanks as always


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> after cutting a few lbs of BF I'm going to do an 8 week blast on
> 
> 225mg tren a
> 
> 500mg test p
> 
> 150mg mast
> 
> 20mg prov ED
> 
> and now thinking of adding oxy in at either 25mg or 50mg ED too.
> 
> i responding amazingly to oxy last time, no sides to speak of. And felt energetic hungry and happy.
> 
> what are your thoughts?


 Sounds great, what are your goals? Mass, strength? Are going cruising afterwards or PCT? I would replace the mast for winstrol. You will see much better results in strength/tissue growth and dryness/vascularity.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Is nebido any good for a cruise?
> 
> What's the difference in pinning full 4ml in one go vs pinning a ml a week


 Yes, but i would do every 2 weeks minimum.

You can see the difference by charting the different frequencies on steroidcalc.com, 2 weeks is ideal with nebido.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El Chapo since my absolute dreadful experience with injecting (hospital, antibiotics) which is still outgoing. When im fit and healthy again, im going to trim to 10% BF and then Oral only cycle.
> 
> 1) What would you recommend to bulk?
> 
> 2) What you recommend to cut?
> 
> Oral only. My Mrs would go next level crazy it i suggest sticking a needle in me anywhere. Imagine the headache ive had since she suggested/outlined all the negative and not to do it blah blah.


 I would not do oral only out of fear of injections. I'm telling you that you did not have an infection. All your symptoms are PIP flu which i've had maybe +60 times myself when i was experimenting with different homebrew concentrations and recipes.

It's not that i'm entirely against oral only cycles, but to do them out of fear of injections is the wrong approach. You need to either find a new source for AAS oils or dilute the current oil you have. If your run an oral only cycle, it will shut down your testosterone which you need for your health, estradiol/DHT are extremely important for physical and mental well-being.

For oral only cycle, winstrol 100 mg daily or superdrol 40 mg daily would be effective for building muscle and strength, but even a little bit of testosterone would greatly enhance your experience and results.

Cut/bulk is really the same thing, you can get away with smaller dosages for cutting sometimes but sometimes running the same dose as the cut may increase your chances of not losing/muscle strength, ( i would only be worried about this as an advanced/elite powerlifter/bodybuilder).

My suggestion is find a new source for the AAS oil or buy some sterile oil and dilute what you currently have, you don't want to shy away from injections cause of PIP. I had your exact same symptoms countless times, it's not infection but severe PIP which causes flu like symptoms like malaise, fatigue, aches, fever and local pain you can't walk etc.

If you plan on PCT, it's ideal to run HCG to maintain fertility/endogenous testosterone production, but HCG is also an injectable. If you don't care about fertility/recovery and are just going to cruise(probably not in your case) , then you don't need HCG.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> I am speaking for recomping or bulking, I know you don't need much stuff for cutting.
> 
> High test blasts (>trt dosage per week) vs keeping test low dosage as a base + adding others compounds?
> 
> Will I have more benefits for test increasing its dosage? Because some people say test is like a pro hormone for e2 and dht and you should take it enough just to keep your functions normal then adding others compounds more anabolic like Tren npp superdrol winstrol and so on.
> 
> What's the best way and why (in your opinion)


 You will get better results from adding another anabolic like winstrol/superdrol to your testosterone. It's true that very high testosterone levels can cause some unwanted side effects, although it tends to be very cheap and still very effective for building muscle and strength. Higher testosterone doses also mean more water retention, which some guys don't like either.

Like i always say, it depends on your goals and where you are starting from. As a beginner, you can get some good results on some moderate test (300-500 mg per week) + one oral compound at moderate doses (win/sdrol). If you have aspirations of tons of mass/strength, then higher doses+insulin/slin might be in your future. Many guys just want to look fit with decent muscularity and they don't need all these compounds and big doses to get where they want to be.

Both higher test or low test+other AAS can work great, it's always going to come down to the fundamentals. Both approaches have their advantages. Testosterone tends to be very safe for the body and very cheap/easy to acquire/easy to test for bunk oil/etc. Adding another AAS can help a lot too though. Some people aromatize like crazy and do better with low testosterone. It really depends on the person themselves and their goals, everyone is different.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo How do I lower my Cholesterol
> 
> I've been on Test 750, Deca 600 and Tren Hex 150
> 
> No cardio but I don't smoke or drink
> 
> Any help on these bloods would be amazing
> 
> View attachment 176113
> 
> 
> View attachment 176115
> 
> 
> View attachment 176117
> 
> 
> View attachment 176119
> 
> 
> View attachment 176121
> 
> 
> View attachment 176123
> 
> 
> View attachment 176125
> 
> 
> View attachment 176127


 Your LDL is perfectly fine. Most healthy people have your LDL level, and most people will need to take statins to get down to the "recommended" range. The recommended level is not natural or found in normal healthy people.

Your HDL is a different story, almost undetectable, but that's expected on your current stack. This can do some damage after a while, but if you are limiting your cycle time and taking breaks you should be okay. I strongly recommend adding cardio year round, bulk/cut/maintenance. It will have the strongest effect on protecting your heart, better than any supplement or cholesterol level. It will also enhance your gains and workouts.


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate, hoping you could answer a few questions, i have read your responses throughout the thread and would just like to collate in one place and make sure i am understanding you right.
> 
> I am thinking of running HGH, not only for the obvious benefits but others too. I have ran AAS cycles in the past and am currently on 400mg test per week. I think my training and diet are as good as they can be for me, I had back surgery a couple of years ago so training regime revolves around staying injury free.
> 
> 1) The plan would be to start on a low dose (1iu - 2iu per day with weekends off) until my body began to get used to the additional HGH, i am susceptible to side effects so would rather ease myself in, after which an increase to 4iu per day with weekends off. Does that sound plausable?
> 
> 2) in one of your previous posts you advised someone to take an initial dose of 10IU and then test for certain levels, was this a way for that person to test for authenticity of the HGH they had bought? if so would they then go down to a smaller daily dose of HGH for the remainder of their course?.
> 
> 3) Taking it 3 hours prior to bed is your advice?
> 
> 4) IM injections using 29-31 gauge 1/2 inch needles?
> 
> I think that about covers it, thank you so much for your time and advice


 Before taking HGH, it's a good idea to get a baseline IGF-1 reading. IGF-1 is the best way to test how your natural GH production is. This way you know where you are starting from.

1- I would start are 3 IU, that's a good median dosage. The only common HGH side effects are somnolence(sleepiness), tight hands/carpal tunnel, and sometimes achy joints. Water retention and increase in heart rate/BP are also normal. You can mitigate the sleepiness by taking HGH before bedtime.

2- Correct, the 10 IU protocol is to test the legitimacy of the HGH. Technically, you could skip a day or two after that big shot. Mon/Wed/Fri and EOD dosing has been shown to work in studies and this is the way the olympic athletes were running it according to the BALCO scandal data.

3- I would take it 2-4 hours prior to bedtime. That's how i do it. I am very sensitize to the sleepiness and this fix it for me.

4- IM injections, 29-31 gauge, 5/16th-1/2 inch needles are good. I recommend backfilling your syringes for the week after you reconstitute a weeks worth of HGH. This is the most convinient way i've found for using it. If you are going to do it long-term, you want to make it easy/simple and as little of a headache as possible.

Anytime brother, glad to help.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> is there any advantage to cruising on something other than test ?
> 
> would you add anything to a cruise dose if running dnp (2-400mg) ?
> 
> Thanks as always


 Cruise should be a time for your body to take a break from harsher doses/compounds and recover HDL levels/liver/etc.

If you want to look good on a cruise, just stay under 12% body fat. If you have a decent amount of muscle, you will look amazing.

Some people like to add a little masteron to polish the physique a little bit extra and boost libido/well-being. Masteron is very mild, but some guys get hair thinning, oily skin/acne and prostate issues on it.

I recommend sticking to 150-300 mg test for cruising, staying lean so you look great year round. If you are an advanced/elite lifter ( a lot of mass/strength), then 500 mg test or 300 mg test+4 IU HGH for cruising.


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Sounds great, what are your goals? Mass, strength? Are going cruising afterwards or PCT? I would replace the mast for winstrol. You will see much better results in strength/tissue growth and dryness/vascularity.


 Indeed mass and strength.

i would use winstrol but it makes my arthritis shoulder joint ache bad!

i was only using the low dose mast and prov for reducing tren sides.

ill be cruising after or possibly just extend the blast.

thanks for getting back all the time dude!


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Indeed mass and strength.
> 
> i would use winstrol but it makes my arthritis shoulder joint ache bad!
> 
> i was only using the low dose mast and prov for reducing tren sides.
> 
> ill be cruising after or possibly just extend the blast.
> 
> thanks for getting back all the time dude!


 I would use superdrol in place of masteron then. You will see amazing results from it, a little goes a long way.

Since you are using masteron for the tren side relief, i would add superdrol to this stack or next cycle and leave the mast in.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Permanently is fine. GH recovers when you stop.
> 
> 2.5 IU should put you around 250 (levels of someone in their 20s) 4 IU will put you around 400 (levels of 15-17 year olds). 2.5 is more for anti-aging, 3-4 IU is more "performance" enhancing. 3-4 IU is a good sweet spot. That's what i run myself.
> 
> If you wanna stay lean, figure out your maintenance calories and stick close to that. If you are active by doing cardio, it lets you eat more while staying lean. GH may or may not help you stay leaner, rely 100% on your caloric intake if that's your goal.


 If i ran 4iu a day would it matter if i did 8iu eod? I've heard you mention running over 5iu without insulin is not a great idea - but would the 8iu in one jab cause these kind of problems even though the daily average will be the same (4iu)


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> If i ran 4iu a day would it matter if i did 8iu eod? I've heard you mention running over 5iu without insulin is not a great idea - but would the 8iu in one jab cause these kind of problems even though the daily average will be the same (4iu)


 That's fine but you may get more side effects.


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> Before taking HGH, it's a good idea to get a baseline IGF-1 reading. IGF-1 is the best way to test how your natural GH production is. This way you know where you are starting from.
> 
> 1- I would start are 3 IU, that's a good median dosage. The only common HGH side effects are somnolence(sleepiness), tight hands/carpal tunnel, and sometimes achy joints. Water retention and increase in heart rate/BP are also normal. You can mitigate the sleepiness by taking HGH before bedtime.
> 
> 2- Correct, the 10 IU protocol is to test the legitimacy of the HGH. Technically, you could skip a day or two after that big shot. Mon/Wed/Fri and EOD dosing has been shown to work in studies and this is the way the olympic athletes were running it according to the BALCO scandal data.
> 
> 3- I would take it 2-4 hours prior to bedtime. That's how i do it. I am very sensitize to the sleepiness and this fix it for me.
> 
> 4- IM injections, 29-31 gauge, 5/16th-1/2 inch needles are good. I recommend backfilling your syringes for the week after you reconstitute a weeks worth of HGH. This is the most convinient way i've found for using it. If you are going to do it long-term, you want to make it easy/simple and as little of a headache as possible.
> 
> Anytime brother, glad to help.


 Thank you for the advice my friend, i have arranged a blood test for base IGF-1 numbers.

I appreciate the advice on the other points too.

Out of curiosity, are you suggesting 10iu EOD or the actual running dose of 3iu (to increase to 4 or 5iu) EOD.

Thank you once again, very selfless of you to offer your time and wisdom to benefit others.


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> Thank you for the advice my friend, i have arranged a blood test for base IGF-1 numbers.
> 
> I appreciate the advice on the other points too.
> 
> Out of curiosity, are you suggesting 10iu EOD or the actual running dose of 3iu (to increase to 4 or 5iu) EOD.
> 
> Thank you once again, very selfless of you to offer your time and wisdom to benefit others.


 I always recommend daily injections.

You can get away with EOD injections, but you may or may not get more sides. Some people do fine on EOD or MWF.


----------



## PhilJ56

@ElChapo

I started my first cycle of test E last Monday. First 2 pins were fine, no pip but yesterday's was a different story. Feel feverish and got a sore throat like I'm coming down with a cold. My glute aches a bit but nothing major. Is this just Pip flu?


----------



## ElChapo

PhilJ56 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I started my first cycle of test E last Monday. First 2 pins were fine, no pip but yesterday's was a different story. Feel feverish and got a sore throat like I'm coming down with a cold. My glute aches a bit but nothing major. Is this just Pip flu?


 Likely PIP flu, did you make sure to alcohol swab. Your body can even fight most infections on it's own. Most infections/abscesses happen because guys get lazy and forget to swab the site of injection. It's unlikely to be dirty oil if you already had successful injections with the same batch/vial.

Ibuprofen or any NSAID is the best medicine for PIP and PIP flu.


----------



## PhilJ56

ElChapo said:


> Likely PIP flu, did you make sure to alcohol swab. Your body can even fight most infections on it's own. Most infections/abscesses happen because guys get lazy and forget to swab the site of injection. It's unlikely to be dirty oil if you already had successful injections with the same batch/vial.
> 
> Ibuprofen or any NSAID is the best medicine for PIP and PIP flu.


 I did indeed, first thing I do. One of the guys at the gym pins for me in the mornings as I don't feel comfortable doing it myself. Strangely though I feel a bit better after this evenings workout lol.


----------



## ElChapo

PhilJ56 said:


> I did indeed, first thing I do. One of the guys at the gym pins for me in the mornings as I don't feel comfortable doing it myself. Strangely though I feel a bit better after this evenings workout lol.


 Look into using 27-31 gauge needles, they are painless with proper technique. 25 gauge is the absolute minimum i recommend for needle gauge size.


----------



## mihawk_swkraths

Hello joaquin!! question about high ranges of CRP can arachidonic acid lower it? in a dosage of 2000mg's per day for 1 month 
cause it's a supplement thats why im curious


----------



## gavzilla

@ElChapo

i was wondering if you could be so kind to help my friend understand some of his bloods. He's 50 years old, he's done cycles but has been off for about 5 years. He used aromosin and stopped aromosin 3-4 weeks before his blood test. His shgb levels are very low and his ALT is very high and I'm baffled to why that would be ? He does not drink or smoke. I can see why his eostrogen is low as I'm presuming it will take a while to bounce back. He wants to find out what's going on before adding trt in. Do you have any information and advice to increase his SHGB ? I think his ALT will be high from other meds.

much appreciated


----------



## ElChapo

mihawk_swkraths said:


> Hello joaquin!! question about high ranges of CRP can arachidonic acid lower it? in a dosage of 2000mg's per day for 1 month
> cause it's a supplement thats why im curious


 Product-evaluation Registry Of Meriva®, A Curcumin-phosphatidylcholine Complex, For The Complementary Management Of Osteoarthritis

200mg of MERIVA, taken at 200mg daily, was able to reduce symptoms of osteoarthritis and joint pain as assessed by the WOMAC rating scale and improve physical performance.

C-Reactive Protein decreased only in the group with higher CRP at baseline, although to a very large degree (168 to 11.3mg/L)

DHA and ARACHIDONIC acid might have an effect as well.

I would be more concerned about locating the reason for the elevated CRP.


----------



## Rockstar618111

Does testosterone have any effect directly on BMR other than muscle increase leading to higher BMR? Also does testosterone work through any other path way to burn fat other than calories in vs calories out

thank you


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> i was wondering if you could be so kind to help my friend understand some of his bloods. He's 50 years old, he's done cycles but has been off for about 5 years. He used aromosin and stopped aromosin 3-4 weeks before his blood test. His shgb levels are very low and his ALT is very high and I'm baffled to why that would be ? He does not drink or smoke. I can see why his eostrogen is low as I'm presuming it will take a while to bounce back. He wants to find out what's going on before adding trt in. Do you have any information and advice to increase his SHGB ? I think his ALT will be high from other meds.
> 
> much appreciated
> 
> View attachment 176269
> 
> 
> View attachment 176271


 Aromasin can raise ALT and lower SHBG.

Was he taking TRT or just aromasin by itself?


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar618111 said:


> Does testosterone have any effect directly on BMR other than muscle increase leading to higher BMR? Also does testosterone work through any other path way to burn fat other than calories in vs calories out
> 
> thank you


 On paper (studies/science), it seems testosterone would increase fat loss, but in real life it really doesn't do much. It can possibly help burn fat in a deficit, but in real world terms, it's not something you will notice. It does not increase BMR in any significant sense, but if it increases energy/motivation that can increase calories burned if you are going out, exercising, etc.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo

Taking toxicity and health out of the equation for now...

What is "wrong" with running TRT year round with a few blasts of 3 - 4 weeks superdrol 3 or 4 times in a year.

mg for mg Superdrol is probably one of the best AAS for building LBM fast (if you take health and toxicity out of the equation)?

With this in mind can one not blast superdrol along with low dose test and net some LBM their after on TRT?

Nowadays i just use low dose test year round and primo when blasting. Im kind of at a stage where I am not that fussed about adding much more mass. As of Monday i started 20mg superdrol and plan to run it for 3 week and see how much LBM i can net from this small blast. during the blast i am also eating in surplus of course.

your thoughts


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Taking toxicity and health out of the equation for now...
> 
> What is "wrong" with running TRT year round with a few blasts of 3 - 4 weeks superdrol 3 or 4 times in a year.
> 
> mg for mg Superdrol is probably one of the best AAS for building LBM fast (if you take health and toxicity out of the equation)?
> 
> With this in mind can one not blast superdrol along with low dose test and net some LBM their after on TRT?
> 
> Nowadays i just use low dose test year round and primo when blasting. Im kind of at a stage where I am not that fussed about adding much more mass. As of Monday i started 20mg superdrol and plan to run it for 3 week and see how much LBM i can net from this small blast. during the blast i am also eating in surplus of course.
> 
> your thoughts


 For sure, not a bad idea. I find superdrol to be the most effect AAS for building strength/tissue myself. I've tried pretty much everything. Blows tren out of the water for me personally.

You could always throw in TUDCA/NAC when you blast superdrol as liver insurance.

Of course you can build muscle, just need to make sure you are in a caloric surplus and are increase your weights/reps on your lifts.

I would extend that Superdrol to 8 weeks, 3 weeks is not much. 8 weeks will really let it shine.


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo just following on from the Superdrol post above and your other posts on it, I know you're a big fan.

Whilst I understand that all AAS sides will depend predominantly on genetic predispositions etc. how bad is Superdrol on the hair and for gyno? Again I appreciate that all steroids barring Deca will elevate DHT to a certain extent and therefore cause potentially cause all associated side effects - but is it as brutal as say Winstrol or Masteron? both of which are known for it specifically.

I was thinking of adding it for 6 weeks in combination with my test prop cycle just to maximise results and due to the reported mild drying effects, the other option was Anavar?

So for example 300 or 400mg of test prop for 8 weeks, coupled with 20mg per day sdol or alternatively 50mg of anavar

Thanks in advance as always.

LT


----------



## gavzilla

ElChapo said:


> Aromasin can raise ALT and lower SHBG.
> 
> Was he taking TRT or just aromasin by itself?


 So he just told me his ALT is always high because of an enzyme in his liver.

he used aromosin by its self to lower eostrogen because he was only guessing his eostrogen was high.

he has not used any steroids for about 5 years.

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo just following on from the Superdrol post above and your other posts on it, I know you're a big fan.
> 
> Whilst I understand that all AAS sides will depend predominantly on genetic predispositions etc. how bad is Superdrol on the hair and for gyno? Again I appreciate that all steroids barring Deca will elevate DHT to a certain extent and therefore cause potentially cause all associated side effects - but is it as brutal as say Winstrol or Masteron? both of which are known for it specifically.
> 
> I was thinking of adding it for 6 weeks in combination with my test prop cycle just to maximise results and due to the reported mild drying effects, the other option was Anavar?
> 
> So for example 300 or 400mg of test prop for 8 weeks, coupled with 20mg per day sdol or alternatively 50mg of anavar
> 
> Thanks in advance as always.
> 
> LT


 I have seen sparse anecdotes of superdrol causing gyno. It's a DHT derivative (oral masteron) but it can be possible for DHT compounds to cause gyno as DHT itself can metabolize to estrogenic compounds. This is extremely unlikely unless you have a very strong desposition for getting gyno. I do myself and superdrol was not an issue for me.

As for hair, it's probably as bad as any other AAS. Remember that hair shedding is NOT male pattern baldness. Hair shedding can happen with any hormone changes in the body including taking thyroid hormone and even stress. This is temporary. True semi-permanent male pattern baldness happens slowly and starts at the temple and crown as gradual thinning of the hair. You can take nizoral 2% shampoo while running compounds that thin hair like winstrol/masteron. It works great.

Trenbolone does not convert to DHT but is a powerful androgen in it's own right. Hair loss is a complex medical mystery, we do know that androgens are involved in it somehow but its not as simple as high dht = male pattern baldness. There is a strong, if not, entirely genetic component to it. Best way is to look at males on both sides of your close family. Run nizoral 2%.

I strongly recommend superdrol+test prop combo. You will be pumped, dry and very strong. Very simple and effective combo for building strength for powerlifting or muscle for bodybuilding.


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> So he just told me his ALT is always high because of an enzyme in his liver.
> 
> he used aromosin by its self to lower eostrogen because he was only guessing his eostrogen was high.
> 
> he has not used any steroids for about 5 years.
> 
> thanks


 Enzyme in his liver? ALT is the enzyme from the liver. Perhaps he has a hepatitis virus. This can cause chronic elevation of AST/ALT (These are liver enzymes).

Aromasin can cause elevated AST/ALT, so can hepatitis, alcohol, medications and intense workouts.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> I have seen sparse anecdotes of superdrol causing gyno. It's a DHT derivative (oral masteron) but it can be possible for DHT compounds to cause gyno as DHT itself can metabolize to estrogenic compounds. This is extremely unlikely unless you have a very strong desposition for getting gyno. I do myself and superdrol was not an issue for me.
> 
> As for hair, it's probably as bad as any other AAS. Remember that hair shedding is NOT male pattern baldness. Hair shedding can happen with any hormone changes in the body including taking thyroid hormone and even stress. This is temporary. True semi-permanent male pattern baldness happens slowly and starts at the temple and crown as gradual thinning of the hair. You can take nizoral 2% shampoo while running compounds that thin hair like winstrol/masteron. It works great.
> 
> Trenbolone does not convert to DHT but is a powerful androgen in it's own right. Hair loss is a complex medical mystery, we do know that androgens are involved in it somehow but its not as simple as high dht = male pattern baldness. There is a strong, if not, entirely genetic component to it. Best way is to look at males on both sides of your close family. Run nizoral 2%.
> 
> I strongly recommend superdrol+test prop combo. You will be pumped, dry and very strong. Very simple and effective combo for building strength for powerlifting or muscle for bodybuilding.


 Perfect thanks as ever EC, I know there are many unknowns still with regards to hair loss etc.

I was also worried about potential gyno sides as I suffered with it slightly as a teen (hormonal not steroid related) but I'd of course have precautions in place before starting.

We can only get the 1% Nizoral over here I believe even with prescription!

Also didn't know it was effectively oral masteron, so that's my school lesson for the week!

Test Prop & Sdol it will be! Do the above doses look ok? For a first cycle currently 90kg at around 14-15% bf

Thanks again

LT


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Perfect thanks as ever EC, I know there are many unknowns still with regards to hair loss etc.
> 
> I was also worried about potential gyno sides as I suffered with it slightly as a teen (hormonal not steroid related) but I'd of course have precautions in place before starting.
> 
> We can only get the 1% Nizoral over here I believe even with prescription!
> 
> Also didn't know it was effectively oral masteron, so that's my school lesson for the week!
> 
> Test Prop & Sdol it will be! Do the above doses look ok? For a first cycle currently 90kg at around 14-15% bf
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> LT


 Pubertal gyno can be reversed with nolvadex or raloxifene.

What country are you in? Many countries even have 2% OTC, never heard of a country not carrying 2%, it's used for fungal infections and fairly easy to find. I would call your pharmacy and ask them if they carry 2% or are able to get it.

Yep, superdrol is oral masteron but many times more powerful than injectable masteron.

That would be an incredible stack for a first cycle. Results will be great, make sure you eat enough calories and increase your reps weight as often as possible without sacrificing form and you will build muscle/strength.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Pubertal gyno can be reversed with nolvadex or raloxifene.
> 
> What country are you in? Many countries even have 2% OTC, never heard of a country not carrying 2%, it's used for fungal infections and fairly easy to find. I would call your pharmacy and ask them if they carry 2% or are able to get it.
> 
> Yep, superdrol is oral masteron but many times more powerful than injectable masteron.
> 
> That would be an incredible stack for a first cycle. Results will be great, make sure you eat enough calories and increase your reps weight as often as possible without sacrificing form and you will build muscle/strength.


 It's subsided over time, just worried about it flaring up!

UK, maybe I can discuss with the pharmacy but I've only ever heard of 1%.

I will do! Looking forward to getting it started, I've been waiting for a long time to take the plunge!


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> It's subsided over time, just worried about it flaring up!
> 
> UK, maybe I can discuss with the pharmacy but I've only ever heard of 1%.
> 
> I will do! Looking forward to getting it started, I've been waiting for a long time to take the plunge!


 You can source it from overseas, mexico, indian, turkey, etc.

If you plan on doing PCT, i strongly suggest running HCG at 1,500 from cycle start to finish and 2 weeks into PCT.


----------



## gavzilla

ElChapo said:


> Enzyme in his liver? ALT is the enzyme from the liver. Perhaps he has a hepatitis virus. This can cause chronic elevation of AST/ALT (These are liver enzymes).
> 
> Aromasin can cause elevated AST/ALT, so can hepatitis, alcohol, medications and intense workouts.


 He has alpha1 type mz enzyme deficiency and his ALT levels have always been high.

hes more concerned about his SHGB. I've read up that aromosin lowers SHGB but I've not seen anything that low on blood work before. Would I be right in saying his SHGB will lower again when he starts trt ?

thanks again


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> For sure, not a bad idea. I find superdrol to be the most effect AAS for building strength/tissue myself. I've tried pretty much everything. Blows tren out of the water for me personally.
> 
> You could always throw in TUDCA/NAC when you blast superdrol as liver insurance.
> 
> Of course you can build muscle, just need to make sure you are in a caloric surplus and are increase your weights/reps on your lifts.
> 
> I would extend that Superdrol to 8 weeks, 3 weeks is not much. 8 weeks will really let it shine.


 How are is liver, cholesterol after 8 weeks on sdrol?

Also do you drink alcohol?

All you ever see and here on here is no longer than 3-4 weeks and no more than 40mg

im probably going to try injec sdrol after Xmas/next blast and find orals (winni my fav) I run for 8 weeks and loved it

loads seem to just use to kick start thier cycles but I don't really feel any compound get going until week 3-4 so pointless ime


----------



## Djibril

Abc987 said:


> How are is liver, cholesterol after 8 weeks on sdrol?
> 
> Also do you drink alcohol?
> 
> All you ever see and here on here is no longer than 3-4 weeks and no more than 40mg
> 
> im probably going to try injec sdrol after Xmas/next blast and find orals (winni my fav) I run for 8 weeks and loved it
> 
> loads seem to just use to kick start thier cycles but I don't really feel any compound get going until week 3-4 so pointless ime


 Was typing same question regarding superdrol on the lipids.

Liver tend to stress me less since im not going to be drinking and probably udca and nac help as well.

Hdl in the other hand, dont really want it fried for a long time. Whats ur experiencen on Superdrol and hdl @ElChapo


----------



## Playtowin

ElChapo said:


> For sure, not a bad idea. I find superdrol to be the most effect AAS for building strength/tissue myself. I've tried pretty much everything. Blows tren out of the water for me personally.
> 
> You could always throw in TUDCA/NAC when you blast superdrol as liver insurance.
> 
> Of course you can build muscle, just need to make sure you are in a caloric surplus and are increase your weights/reps on your lifts.
> 
> I would extend that Superdrol to 8 weeks, 3 weeks is not much. 8 weeks will really let it shine.


 Dose you run for 8 weeks bud?

What brand do you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

gavzilla said:


> He has alpha1 type mz enzyme deficiency and his ALT levels have always been high.
> 
> hes more concerned about his SHGB. I've read up that aromosin lowers SHGB but I've not seen anything that low on blood work before. Would I be right in saying his SHGB will lower again when he starts trt ?
> 
> thanks again


 His SHBG looks fine. TRT can lower SHBG as well. There's been a recent fad obsession with SHBG levels. SHBG in of itself is not good or bad.

His albumin is low, does he eat low protein diet or not eat a lot of food? This is usually seen in people who are malnourished but also in liver problems. He should get tested for hepatitis unless he already knows he has it, it's fairly common. It's a virus (a, b, c, etc) that attacks the liver.

A quick read on that enzyme deficiency says it can lead to liver problems, so this can be a likely cause of the low albumin/high ALT levels.

"However, in individuals with the PiZZ genotype, A1AT levels are less than 15% of normal, and they are likely to develop panlobular emphysema at a young age. Between 10 to 15% of these people will develop liver fibrosis or liver cirrhosis, because the A1AT is not secreted properly and therefore accumulates in the liver.[13] A liver biopsy in such cases will reveal PAS-positive, diastase-resistant granules."


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> How are is liver, cholesterol after 8 weeks on sdrol?
> 
> Also do you drink alcohol?
> 
> All you ever see and here on here is no longer than 3-4 weeks and no more than 40mg
> 
> im probably going to try injec sdrol after Xmas/next blast and find orals (winni my fav) I run for 8 weeks and loved it
> 
> loads seem to just use to kick start thier cycles but I don't really feel any compound get going until week 3-4 so pointless ime


 Cholesterol is always going to take a hit on AAS, even on TRT sometimes. Liver will be fine, as long as you don't have pre-existing liver issues, alcoholism, using other medications that stress liver (tylenol), etc. I would avoid heavy alcohol use during the oral cycle and you can run TUDCA/NAC.

You see only "3-4" weeks because people are overly cautious when it comes to orals and liver health. All those pros and instagram people are running orals for months if not year round at lower doses. TUDCA/NAC will greatly mitigate the liver toxicity which is causes by cholestasis. TUDCA prevents cholestasis. NAC bolsters and keeps glutathione levels in the liver high which can get depleted from medications/AAS.

I've had amazing results on injectable sdrol and oral winstrol. Those are my two favorite AAS, no question. They are stronger than tren (for me) and much less side effects.

Most people have never felt the true power of superdrol/winstrol because they don't run it long enough (8-12 weeks).


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Was typing same question regarding superdrol on the lipids.
> 
> Liver tend to stress me less since im not going to be drinking and probably udca and nac help as well.
> 
> Hdl in the other hand, dont really want it fried for a long time. Whats ur experiencen on Superdrol and hdl @ElChapo


 See what i've said before countless times. Lipids are always going to take a hit on AAS. Impaired lipids take many years to be a risk factor for heart disease. That's just the way it works. Calcification of the arteries is a very very slow process and takes decades. As long as you aren't cooking lipids year round, you will be fine. Do your cardio, keep your BP and HCT in check, those are more important.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Dose you run for 8 weeks bud?
> 
> What brand do you recommend?


 For Sdrol, any reputable UGL.

TUDCA/NAC you can get from any decent supplement brand. Now foods NAC and there are a bunch of TUDCA suppliers, but also pharma grade UDCA is available as well. UDCA TUDCA are basically the same thing.

Run TUDCA/NAC the whole time, superdrol/winstrol 8-12 weeks for best results.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Cholesterol is always going to take a hit on AAS, even on TRT sometimes. Liver will be fine, as long as you don't have pre-existing liver issues, alcoholism, using other medications that stress liver (tylenol), etc. I would avoid heavy alcohol use during the oral cycle and you can run TUDCA/NAC.
> 
> You see only "3-4" weeks because people are overly cautious when it comes to orals and liver health. All those pros and instagram people are running orals for months if not year round at lower doses. TUDCA/NAC will greatly mitigate the liver toxicity which is causes by cholestasis. TUDCA prevents cholestasis. NAC bolsters and keeps glutathione levels in the liver high which can get depleted from medications/AAS.
> 
> I've had amazing results on injectable sdrol and oral winstrol. Those are my two favorite AAS, no question. They are stronger than tren (for me) and much less side effects.
> 
> Most people have never felt the true power of superdrol/winstrol because they don't run it long enough (8-12 weeks).


 Would you, have you run both together?


----------



## Playtowin

ElChapo said:


> For Sdrol, any reputable UGL.
> 
> TUDCA/NAC you can get from any decent supplement brand. Now foods NAC and there are a bunch of TUDCA suppliers, but also pharma grade UDCA is available as well. UDCA TUDCA are basically the same thing.
> 
> Run TUDCA/NAC the whole time, superdrol/winstrol 8-12 weeks for best results.


 Would 20mg Sdrol work nicely with 50/100mg Var?

@El Chapo


----------



## gavzilla

ElChapo said:


> His SHBG looks fine. TRT can lower SHBG as well. There's been a recent fad obsession with SHBG levels. SHBG in of itself is not good or bad.
> 
> His albumin is low, does he eat low protein diet or not eat a lot of food? This is usually seen in people who are malnourished but also in liver problems. He should get tested for hepatitis unless he already knows he has it, it's fairly common. It's a virus (a, b, c, etc) that attacks the liver.
> 
> A quick read on that enzyme deficiency says it can lead to liver problems, so this can be a likely cause of the low albumin/high ALT levels.
> 
> "However, in individuals with the PiZZ genotype, A1AT levels are less than 15% of normal, and they are likely to develop panlobular emphysema at a young age. Between 10 to 15% of these people will develop liver fibrosis or liver cirrhosis, because the A1AT is not secreted properly and therefore accumulates in the liver.[13] A liver biopsy in such cases will reveal PAS-positive, diastase-resistant granules."


 Ok much appreciated for your information mate. I will pass this into him


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Would you, have you run both together?


 Never combined the two. It wouldn't hurt to combo them though.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Would 20mg Sdrol work nicely with 50/100mg Var?
> 
> @El Chapo


 Yes, but i would stay at 50 mg var. 100 mg var+20 mg is a lot on the liver, especially if running it for +8 weeks.


----------



## swole troll

Not ran superdrol in years

You say 8 weeks, what kind of dosage will you typically run for this length of time ?

I seem to remember 40mg put me on my ass with lethargy quite quick


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo

what are your thoughts on topical dutasteride? ive begun to mix 0.5mg into this solution from l'oreal called serioxyl (attached) and rubbing it into my scalp instead of orally taking duta or fina.

I've seen some studies that show its effective but wondered what you thought of it ?

Would i need some other special ingredient to add to this solution or would it still be effective like this? (the dutasteride is a liquid capsule and i just open the capsule and mix it with the serioxyl.)


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

This has probably been asked and discussed before but can raloxifene give a negative reading on e2 during a blood test, I know nolvadex can but unsure of ralox?

Cheers!


----------



## Djibril

hello again @ElChapo

I am just curious as to whats the beneffit of NAC on cough.. Theres an OCT medicine that many docs prescribe when you are sick with cough that is actually just Acetylcysteine which i found is the same as NAC. Trebon is the name


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Not ran superdrol in years
> 
> You say 8 weeks, what kind of dosage will you typically run for this length of time ?
> 
> I seem to remember 40mg put me on my ass with lethargy quite quick


 20-40 mg depending on experience level. For lethargy, strong stimulants like Ephedrine/yohimbine+lots of coffee can help. Some are more sensitive to the lethargy than others. Nothing increased strength for me more than winstrol or superdrol.

TUDCA/NAC will cover you if worried about liver toxicity.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> what are your thoughts on topical dutasteride? ive begun to mix 0.5mg into this solution from l'oreal called serioxyl (attached) and rubbing it into my scalp instead of orally taking duta or fina.
> 
> I've seen some studies that show its effective but wondered what you thought of it ?
> 
> Would i need some other special ingredient to add to this solution or would it still be effective like this? (the dutasteride is a liquid capsule and i just open the capsule and mix it with the serioxyl.)
> 
> View attachment 176357


 My go to ingredient is Nizoral 2% shampoo which has amazing results in studies and has worked for me to reverse thinning in my temples. I guess topical finasteride could work and is popular in some circles, Nizoral 2% has always worked great for me. The guys who say nizoral doesn't work are the same as the guys who say nolvadex/raloxifene doesn't work for gyno, they are too impatient to see results which for nizoral can take 6 months of consistent use.


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> hello again @ElChapo
> 
> I am just curious as to whats the beneffit of NAC on cough.. Theres an OCT medicine that many docs prescribe when you are sick with cough that is actually just Acetylcysteine which i found is the same as NAC. Trebon is the name


 NAC is a mucolytic compound, it thins out mucous. It's used in respiratory disoders for this reason. It's known as "mucomyst" in the hospital.

Correct, Acetylcysteine and NAC are the same. You could also use that for liver protection but nothing beats TUDCA which attacks the primary cause of liver toxicity from AAS. NAC covers a secondary cause which is glutathione depletion.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> NAC is a mucolytic compound, it thins out mucous. It's used in respiratory disoders for this reason. It's known as "mucomyst" in the hospital.
> 
> Correct, Acetylcysteine and NAC are the same. You could also use that for liver protection but nothing beats TUDCA which attacks the primary cause of liver toxicity from AAS. NAC covers a secondary cause which is glutathione depletion.


 Thank you ive read all your messages about tudca and nac. Search button in this thread is golden

Theres pharm grade udca named ursofalk in my country as well as pharm grade Nac which ill be using alongside orals.

Do you use nizoral year round or only with hair thinning compounds


----------



## scottomus0

This stuff guys ?

might give it a try


----------



## Rob27

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> This has probably been asked and discussed before but can raloxifene give a negative reading on e2 during a blood test, I know nolvadex can but unsure of ralox?
> 
> Cheers!


 @ElChapo


----------



## TURBS

scottomus0 said:


> This stuff guys ?


 That's it...£6.25 on ebay so good deal at Tescos


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Thank you ive read all your messages about tudca and nac. Search button in this thread is golden
> 
> Theres pharm grade udca named ursofalk in my country as well as pharm grade Nac which ill be using alongside orals.
> 
> Do you use nizoral year round or only with hair thinning compounds


 Year round, if your hair thins on AAS, then it's very likely you will eventually go bald. Running nizoral year round will prevent this or significantly slow it down. It's best to start nizoral before you have any significant hair loss.


----------



## ElChapo

scottomus0 said:


> This stuff guys ?
> 
> might give it a try
> 
> View attachment 176371


 Make sure it's 2% strength and run it for +6 months to see best results.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> @ElChapo


 It's likely but i'm not sure. I would not trust E2 readings while running any SERMs especially since we know that Nolva can throw off the readings.


----------



## Vince the Mince

scottomus0 said:


> This stuff guys ?
> 
> might give it a try
> 
> View attachment 176371


 I've been using that for years. It is 2% (bottle says 20mg/g). Never took steroids but noticed my hairline receding in my mid to late 20's, people started mentioning it so I started using that once or twice a week ever since. Now a guy I work with is adamant I got a hair transplant.


----------



## scottomus0

Vince the Mince said:


> I've been using that for years. It is 2% (bottle says 20mg/g). Never took steroids but noticed my hairline receding in my mid to late 20's, people started mentioning it so I started using that once or twice a week ever since. Now a guy I work with is adamant I got a hair transplant.


 Interesting. Will def give it a try for the next 6 months then. Already receding, thinning. Along with starting test on Monday certainly won't help. But will give it a bash!


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> I always recommend daily injections.
> 
> You can get away with EOD injections, but you may or may not get more sides. Some people do fine on EOD or MWF.


 Thanks dude, cant say i am looking forward to daily injections, i use blue (which i think are 23g) for my test injections and once a week is bad enough with them.


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> Thanks dude, cant say i am looking forward to daily injections, i use blue (which i think are 23g) for my test injections and once a week is bad enough with them.


 23 g is too big, that has a high chance of being painful/uncomfortable and creating a lot of scar tissue. 25 g is the minimum, but i suggest 27-31g.


----------



## Conscript

You can also buy Nizoral 2% on Amazon UK. Really good stuff.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> My go to ingredient is Nizoral 2% shampoo which has amazing results in studies and has worked for me to reverse thinning in my temples. I guess topical finasteride could work and is popular in some circles, Nizoral 2% has always worked great for me. The guys who say nizoral doesn't work are the same as the guys who say nolvadex/raloxifene doesn't work for gyno, they are too impatient to see results which for nizoral can take 6 months of consistent use.


 Using nizoral 3 times a week and can confirm it grew my temples back too!

I was just wondering if you had knowledge about how topical finasteride needs to be mixed? Im just mixing it straight with a over the counter solution but not sure if theres some special ingredient in the ones that sold as pre mixed topical finasteride solutions.

thanks for the advice - ive also used raloxifine to reverse my gyno after you recommended it so forever grateful!

I cant source raloxifene now so would tamoxifen be as effective?


----------



## cell-tech

scottomus0 said:


> Interesting. Will def give it a try for the next 6 months then. Already receding, thinning. Along with starting test on Monday certainly won't help. But will give it a bash!


 I wasnt confident the nizoral was going to help me but i was shocked at how effective it was - you have to give it a few months at least to start working though as el chapo says.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Using nizoral 3 times a week and can confirm it grew my temples back too!
> 
> I was just wondering if you had knowledge about how topical finasteride needs to be mixed? Im just mixing it straight with a over the counter solution but not sure if theres some special ingredient in the ones that sold as pre mixed topical finasteride solutions.
> 
> thanks for the advice - ive also used raloxifine to reverse my gyno after you recommended it so forever grateful!
> 
> I cant source raloxifene now so would tamoxifen be as effective?


 Not sure, i just used and recommend nizoral because it works and it's fairly easy to source or get a script. Nizoral is an anti-androgen, whereas finasteride only blocks 5-alpha reductase, it only blocks conversion to DHT. Nizoral technically blocks any androgen.

I love to hear success stories of raloxifene. Nolvadex is almost as effective and works great. 20 mg daily, 6-12 weeks should reverse most gyno.


----------



## Conscript

ElChapo said:


> Not sure, i just used and recommend nizoral because it works and it's fairly easy to source or get a script. Nizoral is an anti-androgen, whereas finasteride only blocks 5-alpha reductase, it only blocks conversion to DHT. Nizoral technically blocks any androgen.
> 
> I love to hear success stories of raloxifene. Nolvadex is almost as effective and works great. 20 mg daily, 6-12 weeks should reverse most gyno.


 Is that pubertal gyno or from aas use as well? I've got a bit of gyno from aas use going back to 2008-2012. It's been there a while now. Was thinking about visiting Poland to have it cut out, nothing worse than puffy nipples when you're holidaying somewhere warm and sunny.


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> Is that pubertal gyno or from aas use as well? I've got a bit of gyno from aas use going back to 2008-2012. It's been there a while now. Was thinking about visiting Poland to have it cut out, nothing worse than puffy nipples when you're holidaying somewhere warm and sunny.


 Nolva/ralox works on pubertal and old gyno from past AAS use. It's worth a shot to try it before going the surgery route. Best results will be seen after 12 weeks and sometimes it shrinks further after you stop taking ralox/nolva.


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> Is that pubertal gyno or from aas use as well? I've got a bit of gyno from aas use going back to 2008-2012. It's been there a while now. Was thinking about visiting Poland to have it cut out, nothing worse than puffy nipples when you're holidaying somewhere warm and sunny.


 Make sure you source Pharma grade so you make sure it's legit.


----------



## Conscript

ElChapo said:


> Make sure you source Pharma grade so you make sure it's legit.


 Absolutely. That's how I got it in the first place


----------



## Doitagain

@ElChapo

I absolutely love Winstrol. It's the ONLY AAS with a Linear dose-response effect on my body. 100mg a day with a very slight surplus makes me BIG, HARD AND DRY AS A BONE.

Do you have any first or second hand experience with stanozolol megadosing?

Would 150mg/day for 16 weeks alongside 1000mg Pharm Grade UDCA be overly taxing on the liver( not taking into account other sides here)?


----------



## scottomus0

cell-tech said:


> I wasnt confident the nizoral was going to help me but i was shocked at how effective it was - you have to give it a few months at least to start working though as el chapo says.


 Just picked some up. It says to use a couple times a week to start. But is that mainly for the dandruff side of things? I shower and shampoo my hair daily, is it ok to use daily? Won't be lasting 3 months anyway lol


----------



## Conscript

My scalps burns and itches if I use it ed for even a few days in a row. When used properly ie lather it in good and don't wash it out for 3-5 minutes.

I use twice per week when not on gear. Eod when on gear.


----------



## cell-tech

scottomus0 said:


> Just picked some up. It says to use a couple times a week to start. But is that mainly for the dandruff side of things? I shower and shampoo my hair daily, is it ok to use daily? Won't be lasting 3 months anyway lol


 I used it daily for a few weeks until my hair started to get dry and now do it 3 times a week and have no issue with dry hair. Make sure you rub it in really hard into the scalp and not just the hair. I use my knuckles to really get it into there .


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Not sure, i just used and recommend nizoral because it works and it's fairly easy to source or get a script. Nizoral is an anti-androgen, whereas finasteride only blocks 5-alpha reductase, it only blocks conversion to DHT. Nizoral technically blocks any androgen.
> 
> I love to hear success stories of raloxifene. Nolvadex is almost as effective and works great. 20 mg daily, 6-12 weeks should reverse most gyno.


 this is interesting because i dont use any other compounds apart from test because the fina only blocks the conversion.

Would 25mg winstrol a day have a huge effect on my hair with the nizoral do you think?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo any way to reduce water retention caused by HGH? I started a caloric deficit (400kcal to start) alongside 2.5iu per day of Hygetropin HGH three days ago, and haven't lost a single lb so far. Usually I drop 4/5lbs of water initially when I drop calories significantly. It must be the HGH causing fluid retention as I'd always drop weight on these calories in the past. Will this water retention subside and is there anything I can do to mitigate it?

(Currently using test propionate at 150mg every other day and oral winstrol at 50mg daily, so I know the water isn't due to anabolics)


----------



## Playtowin

@ElChapo

10 week cut, Clen through or 2 on 2 off?

T3 yay or nay?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo any way to reduce water retention caused by HGH? I started a caloric deficit (400kcal to start) alongside 2.5iu per day of Hygetropin HGH three days ago, and haven't lost a single lb so far. Usually I drop 4/5lbs of water initially when I drop calories significantly. It must be the HGH causing fluid retention as I'd always drop weight on these calories in the past. Will this water retention subside and is there anything I can do to mitigate it?
> 
> (Currently using test propionate at 150mg every other day and oral winstrol at 50mg daily, so I know the water isn't due to anabolics)


 Waaaaay too soon to judge anything if you're deficit is only 400cals. You basically only just accrued a 1200cal deficit over three days, while taking androgens and HGH... and probably changing your eating habits to consume less liquid cals and more fibre/veg... give it some time to stabilise. Trust the process. Weigh daily and average those over a week. 2 weeks is enough time to see changes in the mirror if you're already lean and on the scale of you're not.

My exp with GH is that 2.5iu shouldn't cause water retention really. Maybe some extra infra muscular fluid and glycogen, but that's a good thing!


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> My scalps burns and itches if I use it ed for even a few days in a row. When used properly ie lather it in good and don't wash it out for 3-5 minutes.
> 
> I use twice per week when not on gear. Eod when on gear.


 Yes, it can irritate with constant use due to sodium lauryl sulfate, the detergent/shampoo ingredient. I tend to use it daily with my showers as it's easy to remember. x 2-3 per week is the minimum.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I absolutely love Winstrol. It's the ONLY AAS with a Linear dose-response effect on my body. 100mg a day with a very slight surplus makes me BIG, HARD AND DRY AS A BONE.
> 
> Do you have any first or second hand experience with stanozolol megadosing?
> 
> Would 150mg/day for 16 weeks alongside 1000mg Pharm Grade UDCA be overly taxing on the liver( not taking into account other sides here)?


 I wouldn't go as far as 150 mg. I would cap it at 100 mg and rely on higher doses of injectable, calories, and training. Add TUDCA/NAC and run it for 16 weeks MAX( i don't recommend this length of time) . Pushing it further than this runs the risk of compromising your liver health. There are guys and girls running winstrol/anavar year round, (lots of the instagram/crossfitter types) which is why they are so hard and dry all the time.

Winstrol is a monster for strength and lean tissue gains, Most guys never experience that because they only run it as a kick start or finisher for 2-4 weeks max.

You can blast the TUDCA up to 1,000 mg if you want, 500 mg is sufficient though. Add NAC for extra protection.


----------



## ElChapo

scottomus0 said:


> Just picked some up. It says to use a couple times a week to start. But is that mainly for the dandruff side of things? I shower and shampoo my hair daily, is it ok to use daily? Won't be lasting 3 months anyway lol


 I use it daily myself, i recommend at least x 3 per week, with an easy to remember scheduled like Mon/Wed/Fri. Some guys can get irritation at first, but it goes away.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> this is interesting because i dont use any other compounds apart from test because the fina only blocks the conversion.
> 
> Would 25mg winstrol a day have a huge effect on my hair with the nizoral do you think?


 In my experience and from others, nizoral does protect the hair from thinning on winstrol. Nizoral can also reverse some hair loss/thinning. When i stop using it for a few months, my temples start to recede, when i resume, the hair comes back.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo any way to reduce water retention caused by HGH? I started a caloric deficit (400kcal to start) alongside 2.5iu per day of Hygetropin HGH three days ago, and haven't lost a single lb so far. Usually I drop 4/5lbs of water initially when I drop calories significantly. It must be the HGH causing fluid retention as I'd always drop weight on these calories in the past. Will this water retention subside and is there anything I can do to mitigate it?
> 
> (Currently using test propionate at 150mg every other day and oral winstrol at 50mg daily, so I know the water isn't due to anabolics)


 Correct, water retention is the most common side effect. Drinking lots of water, 1 gallon minimum and cardio help immensely. Your body will hold less SQ water the longer you run it for as well. I easily gain 5-10 lbs on 4 IU HGH, mostly intramuscularly. HGH increases nitrogen in the muscles just like AAS, so it can give you a strong permanent pump.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 10 week cut, Clen through or 2 on 2 off?
> 
> T3 yay or nay?


 10 weeks, clen daily, no cycling. Add cardio for extra fat loss and stick to 20-40% deficit depending on how aggressively you want to cut. If you're 12% bodyfat or less, do x 2 days of high carbs/maintenance calories once a week. This will replenish glycogen levels, reset metabolism temporarily, and increase satiety.

T3; not worth it. It will make you flatter and hungrier. You won't see significant fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> I used it daily for a few weeks until my hair started to get dry and now do it 3 times a week and have no issue with dry hair. Make sure you rub it in really hard into the scalp and not just the hair. I use my knuckles to really get it into there .


 This is due to two things.

1. The shampoo ingredient itself, sodium lauryl sulfate which strips the oil off your scalp like soap.

2. The anti-androgen effect of nizoral which decreases sebum production in the scalp, which leads to dryness.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> Waaaaay too soon to judge anything if you're deficit is only 400cals. You basically only just accrued a 1200cal deficit over three days, while taking androgens and HGH... and probably changing your eating habits to consume less liquid cals and more fibre/veg... give it some time to stabilise. Trust the process. Weigh daily and average those over a week. 2 weeks is enough time to see changes in the mirror if you're already lean and on the scale of you're not.
> 
> My exp with GH is that 2.5iu shouldn't cause water retention really. Maybe some extra infra muscular fluid and glycogen, but that's a good thing!


 Correct, if the deficit has only been 3 days, you won't see any real difference. Initially, you can lose 3-12 lbs in the first week of a deficit due to less food in your body, lower glycogen levels, etc, but only a small percentage of this weight loss is actually fat loss.

It can take as long as 3-4 weeks to drop the weight from a deficit, this is called a "woosh". It happens to people on a deficit where they don't see any weight or fat loss for a few weeks even with super strict calorie intake and one day they wake up and all the fat/water drops over night.

Read more about it here:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/ (This happens to me, some people have linear weight/fat loss others have to wait for the "woosh")


----------



## swole troll

on the topic of tamoxifen what is your thoughts on it lowering IGF1

do you feel this could be counter productive to any relevant degree on cycle in regard to growth and more importantly do you feel this would work against someone using growth hormone? ie make it so that they are getting less igf for their growth hormone vs not using tamoxifen alongside

(again when i say 'less' i mean to any notable degree in regard to gains )


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't go as far as 150 mg. I would cap it at 100 mg and rely on higher doses of injectable, calories, and training. Add TUDCA/NAC and run it for 16 weeks MAX( i don't recommend this length of time) . Pushing it further than this runs the risk of compromising your liver health. There are guys and girls running winstrol/anavar year round, (lots of the instagram/crossfitter types) which is why they are so hard and dry all the time.
> 
> Winstrol is a monster for strength and lean tissue gains, Most guys never experience that because they only run it as a kick start or finisher for 2-4 weeks max.
> 
> You can blast the TUDCA up to 1,000 mg if you want, 500 mg is sufficient though. Add NAC for extra protection.


 Well unfortunately no injectable has this kind of Linear dose response on me...

Do you consider 40mg SD "safer" than 150mg winny?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> on the topic of tamoxifen what is your thoughts on it lowering IGF1
> 
> do you feel this could be counter productive to any relevant degree on cycle in regard to growth and more importantly do you feel this would work against someone using growth hormone? ie make it so that they are getting less igf for their growth hormone vs not using tamoxifen alongside
> 
> (again when i say 'less' i mean to any notable degree in regard to gains )


 Honestly, it's one of those things that on paper, you would want to avoid cause of the IGF-1 effect, but in real world, tons of pros/elite bodybuilders have been using nolvadex for decades to prevent gyno without having any issues building tons of muscle.

I would avoid it myself if possible due to the weird effects on cognition, possible neurotoxicity with long-term use, and some people get libido/ED issues on it, but i don't feel that it will significantly impair gains, probably because AAS completely negates the negative effect on muscle building from that small drop in IGF-1. I've seen older men who have never trained build a good amount of muscle on TRT but with lower natural IGF-1 levels. I don't think serum IGF-1 has such a significant effect on muscle gains as we would think unless there is a severe deficiency.

Nolvadex and tren are the two compounds that i noticed having a significant effect on IGF-1 results from growth hormone, but results still seem to be there when people stack tren+HGH. It could be that old saying that tren sensitizes the myocytes to IGF-1. IGF-1 is produce in the liver, so anything affecting the liver can affect IGF-1, Oral estrogen but not topical or injectable, causes a signficantly lower increase in IGF-1 after HGH injections.

To sum it up, from what i've seen in the real world, nolvadex will not significantly inhibit gains when running AAS. As for HGH, it's a toss up. I would try to avoid nolvadex use by using an AI instead and only running nolvadex for reversing gyno, but lots of guys have built slabs of muscle running nolvadex in their cycles.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Well unfortunately no injectable has this kind of Linear dose response on me...
> 
> Do you consider 40mg SD "safer" than 150mg winny?


 You don't need a linear dose response, hit those weights hard (push for more reps/weight) and eat enough food, you will build muscle. Add some HGH which will significantly decrease how much AAS you need or get you more "bang for your buck".

If you curl 40s with perfect form for 15 reps, push yourself to 60s with perfect form for 15 reps. Your biceps WILL grow from this (as long as you eat enough calories). This applies to every exercise, bench/squat/deadlift/etc.

Yes, 40 mg superdrol = 100 mg winstrol in my experience.


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo along a similar vein to the tamoxifen question above, do you think cabergoline is likely to affect the igf levels that are increased by using gh as I've read that in medicine they use caber to lower both prolactin and igf levels in people with gigantism.

Thanks


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, it's one of those things that on paper, you would want to avoid cause of the IGF-1 effect, but in real world, tons of pros/elite bodybuilders have been using nolvadex for decades to prevent gyno without having any issues building tons of muscle.
> 
> I would avoid it myself if possible due to the weird effects on cognition, possible neurotoxicity with long-term use, and some people get libido/ED issues on it, but i don't feel that it will significantly impair gains, probably because AAS completely negates the negative effect on muscle building from that small drop in IGF-1. I've seen older men who have never trained build a good amount of muscle on TRT but with lower natural IGF-1 levels. I don't think serum IGF-1 has such a significant effect on muscle gains as we would think unless there is a severe deficiency.
> 
> Nolvadex and tren are the two compounds that i noticed having a significant effect on IGF-1 results from growth hormone, but results still seem to be there when people stack tren+HGH. It could be that old saying that tren sensitizes the myocytes to IGF-1. IGF-1 is produce in the liver, so anything affecting the liver can affect IGF-1, Oral estrogen but not topical or injectable, causes a signficantly lower increase in IGF-1 after HGH injections.
> 
> To sum it up, from what i've seen in the real world, nolvadex will not significantly inhibit gains when running AAS. As for HGH, it's a toss up. I would try to avoid nolvadex use by using an AI instead and only running nolvadex for reversing gyno, but lots of guys have built slabs of muscle running nolvadex in their cycles.


 Does raloxifene have the same effect on igf1?


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo along a similar vein to the tamoxifen question above, do you think cabergoline is likely to affect the igf levels that are increased by using gh as I've read that in medicine they use caber to lower both prolactin and igf levels in people with gigantism.
> 
> Thanks


 Thankfully no because the way it works is at at the pituitary level to lower GH secretion which then lowers IGF-1. It helps shrink or diminish the activity of the adenoma causing excess prolactin and HGH secretion (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/5/1327/2833476)

If we are using exogenous HGH it will not be an issue but it may have a negative effect on IGF-1 levels with GH secreatagogue peptide users.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Does raloxifene have the same effect on igf1?


 It will lower IGF-1 from both endogenous and exogenous HGH.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Thankfully no because the way it works is at at the pituitary level to lower GH secretion which then lowers IGF-1. It helps shrink or diminish the activity of the adenoma causing excess prolactin and HGH secretion (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/5/1327/2833476)
> 
> If we are using exogenous HGH it will not be an issue but it may have a negative effect on IGF-1 levels with GH secreatagogue peptide users.


 Awesome, thanks @ElChapo, that's what I thought but wanted to check with someone who knows a bit lol


----------



## trio

Hi @El Chapo,

All sorted now, Anti-biotics for 7 days. Had Flucloxacillin but they wernt working so they switched me to Co-amoxiclav and its my last day today on them.

Now i have a queation, if an athlete wanted to lin 250mg (1ml a week) of test enanthate and wanted to do this for 6 months.

1) Would you advise HCG to protect the ability to have children (inividual wants to have kids at 30. He is 26 at the moment). This purely to enhance recovery, be stronger is training etc.

2) is there any other issues you can think of that would need addressing? Effect on heart due to cardio (intense everyday), Red blood cell count.

The inividual is a BJJ grappler.

Thanks,

Trio


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> Hi @El Chapo,
> 
> All sorted now, Anti-biotics for 7 days. Had Flucloxacillin but they wernt working so they switched me to Co-amoxiclav and its my last day today on them.
> 
> Now i have a queation, if an athlete wanted to lin 250mg (1ml a week) of test enanthate and wanted to do this for 6 months.
> 
> 1) Would you advise HCG to protect the ability to have children (inividual wants to have kids at 30. He is 26 at the moment). This purely to enhance recovery, be stronger is training etc.
> 
> 2) is there any other issues you can think of that would need addressing? Effect on heart due to cardio (intense everyday), Red blood cell count.
> 
> The inividual is a BJJ grappler.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Trio


 Bump to 300 mg, use prop so you gain less weight. Enanthate will make you heavier and reduce endurance. Propionate or acetate are ideal for sports. It will increase training intensity, recovery, strength, endurance and explosive power.

Run HCG (1,500 IU per week) from day 1, of first injection and until two weeks after your last injection with clomid/nolvadex PCT (which you run for 6-8 weeks).

Your/his heart will be fine from 300 mg testosterone for 6 months.


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo Good afternoon Sir, I'm not proposing this myself right now - as you kindly assisted with last week I would/will add test prop, however what are your thoughts on a Superdrol only cycle as an introduction to anabolics for example 6-8 weeks at 20mg daily as an example followed of course I'd presume a standard PCT protocol.

LT


----------



## MrGRoberts

@El Chapo

Been off everything for 9 weeks and this is my blood results. 
What do you advise please? 
Thanks


----------



## Freelanceuk

@El Chapo


----------



## Freelanceuk

@El Chapo off topic my daughter is vegan can you recommended any vitamins and supplements that will be

beneficial? Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo Good afternoon Sir, I'm not proposing this myself right now - as you kindly assisted with last week I would/will add test prop, however what are your thoughts on a Superdrol only cycle as an introduction to anabolics for example 6-8 weeks at 20mg daily as an example followed of course I'd presume a standard PCT protocol.
> 
> LT


 It can work, you will shutdown your natural testosterone and estradiol production, so there is a good chance sexual function will cease or be impaired. There is also no telling how your mood and energy will be affect. AAS that aren't testosterone can perform some of the essential functions of testosterone, but you also need E2 and DHT.

If you run this stack, i would love to hear your results. I would run at least 8 weeks and throw in TUDCA/NAC. Lots of athletes run oral only, but professionals usually at least add testosterone gel to maintain physiological levels. If one is averse to injections, testosterone gel or cream+orals will work.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Been off everything for 9 weeks and this is my blood results.
> What do you advise please?
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 176559


 What was your cycle/how long did you run it? Are you on anything now? did you PCT? You have low testosterone and severely deficient in E2 which puts you are risk of many health issues including heart disease, especially with the low HDL and high triglycerides.

Cardiovascular exercise will increase HDL/lower triglycerides. What is your approximate body fat %? You need TRT if this is your true baseline.

In order to give you more advice, i need more data/info on your situation.


----------



## ElChapo

Freelanceuk said:


> @El Chapo off topic my daughter is vegan can you recommended any vitamins and supplements that will be
> 
> beneficial? Thanks in advance


 Vitamin D/Iron biglycinate/Now Foods True balance multivitamin.

Zinc, B vitamins and iron are usually low, especially if the female is menstruating for the iron, The multivitamin will have all the b vitamins+zinc. Vitamin D is needed unless she gets plenty of sunlight year round. You want vitamin D levels at minimum to be 30 ng/mL but target should be 40-70 ng/mL. A good vitamin D dose is 5,000 IU daily with a meal that contains fat.

Take all the supplements with food, the biggest meal or dinner is usually best.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> What was your cycle/how long did you run it? Are you on anything now? did you PCT? You have low testosterone and severely deficient in E2 which puts you are risk of many health issues including heart disease, especially with the low HDL and high triglycerides.
> 
> Cardiovascular exercise will increase HDL/lower triglycerides. What is your approximate body fat %? You need TRT if this is your true baseline.
> 
> In order to give you more advice, i need more data/info on your situation.


 I was blasting and cruising for about a year. 
I was taking Test, Mast, Winstrol, Anavar when before I stopped. 
Taking 0 AAS & GH. Absolutely nothing. 
I came off cold turkey no pct.

Bodyfat right now around 20% maybe more.

I came off everything because I had PSVT where my heart randomly started beating like crazy. So I stopped everything as I was scared. 
But it's been 9 weeks and those are the results of my blood test. I have zero sex drive and no motivation to do anything. 
thanks


----------



## Freelanceuk

Thanks again for your advice


----------



## Jaling

@El Chapo

ive read reports that the area you inject GH reduces in fat. Is this true?

say for example I inject in my lower back love handles will this fat start reducing even without a calorie deficit ?

if so how soon to notice and how much can ignite be reduced?


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I was blasting and cruising for about a year.
> I was taking Test, Mast, Winstrol, Anavar when before I stopped.
> Taking 0 AAS & GH. Absolutely nothing.
> I came off cold turkey no pct.
> 
> Bodyfat right now around 20% maybe more.
> 
> I came off everything because I had PSVT where my heart randomly started beating like crazy. So I stopped everything as I was scared.
> But it's been 9 weeks and those are the results of my blood test. I have zero sex drive and no motivation to do anything.
> thanks


 Do you know your baseline testosterone before you started blasting and cruising.

You can either try a PCT or go back to TRT dose testosterone. You need it. You also need to lose some fat. Bring it down to at least 15% or less. This will lower the triglycerides.

Testosterone has a very strong cardioprotective effect at optimal physiological doses. Low testosterone is very bad for the heart.

What's your age? If i was you, i would get back on TRT ASAP, add some HCG at 1,500 IU if fertility is a concern. PCT is hit or miss, if you had poor levels before blast/cruise, i would not bother with PCT, if you are 40 or older, i would also would skip PCT. It depends on your situation.

1. Get back on TRT

2. Lose bodyfat


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> ive read reports that the area you inject GH reduces in fat. Is this true?
> 
> say for example I inject in my lower back love handles will this fat start reducing even without a calorie deficit ?
> 
> if so how soon to notice and how much can ignite be reduced?


 Not true as far as i know, some guys claim this. You can try it and find out, let me know.

If you want to burn off the love handles in a proven way, get very lean and they will be gone. If you get down to 12% or less, you will not have love handles anymore. If you need advice or help burning fat, let me know and i will hook you up.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Do you know your baseline testosterone before you started blasting and cruising.
> 
> You can either try a PCT or go back to TRT dose testosterone. You need it. You also need to lose some fat. Bring it down to at least 15% or less. This will lower the triglycerides.
> 
> Testosterone has a very strong cardioprotective effect at optimal physiological doses. Low testosterone is very bad for the heart.
> 
> What's your age? If i was you, i would get back on TRT ASAP, add some HCG at 1,500 IU if fertility is a concern. PCT is hit or miss, if you had poor levels before blast/cruise, i would not bother with PCT, if you are 40 or older, i would also would skip PCT. It depends on your situation.
> 
> 1. Get back on TRT
> 
> 2. Lose bodyfat


 Thank you for your advice mate.

I am currently in the process of getting TRT prescribed through OptiMale.

I do not have a blood test from before I started AAS. I started when I was 18. Pretty young. I am now 26. I have come to terms that I need TRT for life.

Thanks again


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Not true as far as i know, some guys claim this. You can try it and find out, let me know.
> 
> If you want to burn off the love handles in a proven way, get very lean and they will be gone. If you get down to 12% or less, you will not have love handles anymore. If you need advice or help burning fat, let me know and i will hook you up.


 Thanks dude. Sent you a PM


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo I'm sure you're sick of answering these types of questions by now so I apologies and wont take it personally if you don't respond 

What would you recommend for a 16ish week winter bulk ? Don't want to use tren and winstrol because I was on those over the summer and want to use them again next year, superdrol makes me lethargic as f**k so can only handle a couple of weeks at a time. Am 6foot, 220lb's around 15ish% bf

Also, ideally would like to stay in relatively good shape as I am fairly sure I'm going to be single pretty soon but the results are more important, that would be a nice to have I guess.

Thanks for all the time you've put into this thread, learnt loads


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Thank you for your advice mate.
> 
> I am currently in the process of getting TRT prescribed through OptiMale.
> 
> I do not have a blood test from before I started AAS. I started when I was 18. Pretty young. I am now 26. I have come to terms that I need TRT for life.
> 
> Thanks again


 Yes, you are extremely unlikely to recover decent levels with your medical history. You will be fine. Get leaner though, i strongly recommend starting asap on that.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @ElChapo I'm sure you're sick of answering these types of questions by now so I apologies and wont take it personally if you don't respond
> 
> What would you recommend for a 16ish week winter bulk ? Don't want to use tren and winstrol because I was on those over the summer and want to use them again next year, superdrol makes me lethargic as f**k so can only handle a couple of weeks at a time. Am 6foot, 220lb's around 15ish% bf
> 
> Also, ideally would like to stay in relatively good shape as I am fairly sure I'm going to be single pretty soon but the results are more important, that would be a nice to have I guess.
> 
> Thanks for all the time you've put into this thread, learnt loads


 No reason to cycle out compounds. If winstrol/tren work good for you, keep using them. Superdrol stacked with EC stack is insanely effective as the Ephedrine enhances the appetite loss (great for cutting/not ideal for bulking) and gives you tons of energy to address the lethargy.

Honestly, at 15% i would cut down to 10% and bulk/cut in the 10-15% range so you are always relatively lean. Muscles respond better to AAS and food under 15% body fat (insulin sensitivity is higher) and you look and feel better. Nothing like a cut in the winter when everyone is else is getting fat, spring comes around and you are already cut or just a few weeks from being ripped. It's a great feeling.

I would keep using winstrol/tren and cut down to 10%ish, bulk to 15% rinse/repeat. Never go over 15%. You will look/feel crappier and it's less healthy for you and worse for building muscle.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you are extremely unlikely to recover decent levels with your medical history. You will be fine. Get leaner though, i strongly recommend starting asap on that.


 Thanks. 
Can you hook me up with the fat burning the guy above was talking about?


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Thanks.
> Can you hook me up with the fat burning the guy above was talking about?


 This is the jist of it:

Deficit of 20-40% depending on how fast you want to burn fat. If hunger and fatigue are an issue, add EC stack (ephedrine/caffeine).

Add in very light cardio like jogging or walking, 5-7 times per week.

Make sure you lift weights to preserve muscle and consume at least 1 gram of protein per lbs of lean body mass (not total weight).

You can eat anything you want, what matters is the calories and getting the minimum protein. Fat loss/weight loss can stall for 1-3 weeks sometimes even if you are consistent, this is normal and it's just water retention that will go away after a while. https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/

High carb/low carb/low fat/etc none of that s**t matters, the calories are what matters. I recommend moderate to high carb as this keep strength/energy/appetite/mood optimal by increasing leptin. Leptin is the hormone that makes you feel satisfied when you eat and keep your metabolism good. When you diet, leptin goes down and you feel hungry, shitty and tired all the time. By eating lots of carbs, you keep leptin levels high.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo a couple of questions regarding peptides:

1. Can I mix multiple peptides in the same bottle? (MT2, HCG, HGH)

2. Is taking 2.5iu per day of HGH a good/bad idea for a 21 year old? HGH/IGF will be high anyway for someone my age so would I be wasting my money by suppressing the endogenous production just to use them exogenously? (I've been using for almost a week and gained a few lbs of water retention even despite reducing calories so makes me think levels must be higher than usual)

3. Can I inject HCG daily rather than twice weekly? This way I can inject along with my HGH.

4. Thoughts on Chinese IGF-1 LR3? Waste of money? Has a long half life so only needs injecting once daily, was thinking about using alongside HGH as sourcing isn't too expensive.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

Looking for your opinion on the info below. A well respected pt from a support group has made this statement. Thoughts? (essentially he advocates no orals and small amounts in total or individually for aas which is refreshing, however you've said and most agree that more =better ie 1g test and 100mg winny will yield better results than 300 test and 50g winny, all else being equal. He states that larges amounts aren't necessary to grow, period.)

I took this down the other week as I'm not leaving this sort of info up for long these days.

I'm putting it up for guys to have a good look at.

If you are experiencing side effects as shown below, your heart is at risk.

Stacking is not effective for anything other than increases fat and water.

You can mix up to two compounds with some advantage if you keep the doses low.

But once you get to 3 compounds in arbitrary volumes, throw some orals in and then use some caber, Nolva and a bit of AI, you've completely lost the plot.

If you are going to inject, you have no need for any orals. Taking orals doesn't mean there will be more effects because it's a different entry point.

If you are stacking and getting unreal results, you're getting fat. Anyone who 'blows up' rapidly is severely out of hormone balance and retaining water, just like insulin but the health effects are longer term. Look at 'marbling' in cuts of meat if you need to understand this concept.

Edit: you can read about these compounds as separate entities and see what they do. But once you start mixing them in the body, you can no longer rely on their properties as individual traits, they will interact in the results they yield.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo a couple of questions regarding peptides:
> 
> 1. Can I mix multiple peptides in the same bottle? (MT2, HCG, HGH)
> 
> 2. Is taking 2.5iu per day of HGH a good/bad idea for a 21 year old? HGH/IGF will be high anyway for someone my age so would I be wasting my money by suppressing the endogenous production just to use them exogenously? (I've been using for almost a week and gained a few lbs of water retention even despite reducing calories so makes me think levels must be higher than usual)
> 
> 3. Can I inject HCG daily rather than twice weekly? This way I can inject along with my HGH.
> 
> 4. Thoughts on Chinese IGF-1 LR3? Waste of money? Has a long half life so only needs injecting once daily, was thinking about using alongside HGH as sourcing isn't too expensive.


 1. You could, it would be smarter to keep them in separate vials and mix them as needed in pre-filled syringes so you have full control over the dosages.

2. It depends how high your IGF-1 is. Never assume your IGF-1 or testosterone are super high just because you are young. Lots of guys are walking around with 60-90 y/o male levels of testosterone at 21 years old. It's genetics, lifestyle, etc. I would run run at 3-4 IU at least. it's a good idea to get a baseline IGF-1 and then test where your dose gets you after 4 weeks to compare. If your growth plates aren't closed, you might even gain some height.

3. Yes you can, x 2-3 times per week is only the minimum recommended frequency.

4. I don't see the point, HGH is easy to find, cheap relatively speaking and increases IGF-1. Maybe for a pro or something. I dont' see the point for 90% of lifters where AAS and training can get you where you want to be, and you can always add GH/insulin once you are more advanced and if you still want to get really big.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Looking for your opinion on the info below. A well respected pt from a support group has made this statement. Thoughts? (essentially he advocates no orals and small amounts in total or individually for aas which is refreshing, however you've said and most agree that more =better ie 1g test and 100mg winny will yield better results than 300 test and 50g winny, all else being equal. He states that larges amounts aren't necessary to grow, period.)
> 
> I took this down the other week as I'm not leaving this sort of info up for long these days.
> 
> I'm putting it up for guys to have a good look at.
> 
> If you are experiencing side effects as shown below, your heart is at risk.
> 
> Stacking is not effective for anything other than increases fat and water.
> 
> You can mix up to two compounds with some advantage if you keep the doses low.
> 
> But once you get to 3 compounds in arbitrary volumes, throw some orals in and then use some caber, Nolva and a bit of AI, you've completely lost the plot.
> 
> If you are going to inject, you have no need for any orals. Taking orals doesn't mean there will be more effects because it's a different entry point.
> 
> If you are stacking and getting unreal results, you're getting fat. Anyone who 'blows up' rapidly is severely out of hormone balance and retaining water, just like insulin but the health effects are longer term. Look at 'marbling' in cuts of meat if you need to understand this concept.
> 
> Edit: you can read about these compounds as separate entities and see what they do. But once you start mixing them in the body, you can no longer rely on their properties as individual traits, they will interact in the results they yield.
> 
> View attachment 176583
> 
> 
> View attachment 176585
> 
> 
> View attachment 176587
> 
> 
> View attachment 176589
> 
> 
> View attachment 176591
> 
> 
> View attachment 176593
> 
> 
> View attachment 176595


 Those pictures don't mean anything at all. Look at real world results, look at studies. People keep trying to re-invent the wheel. Some guys need less, some guys need more to get the same kind of growth due to differences in IGF-1/Androgen receptors, ACTN3 gene, muscle fiber, etc. We are all different. Higher doses = more muscle/more strength.

There is a saturation point wherein if you use too much but don't have the muscularity/experience level/diet+training to fully utilize the higher dosage. It's always good to start low/moderate and increase as you go and as needed. To often, guys are blasting higher doses as a crutch for poor training/diet (everyone thinks they know how to train/eat/recover right).

Orals are incredibly effecti nd have been used in combat sports, weightlifting/power lifting and body building to yield amazing results.

I also believe many guys don't need to take as much AAS as they do or any AAS at all to achieve the physique they want. We have all our opinions but i usually got by observable real-world results+science+studies. The pictures are just a bunch of mumble words and numbers and the literal definition of overcomplicating things, keep it simple, trust the process, reach your goals, rinse/repeat.


----------



## 18557

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Looking for your opinion on the info below. A well respected pt from a support group has made this statement. Thoughts? (essentially he advocates no orals and small amounts in total or individually for aas which is refreshing, however you've said and most agree that more =better ie 1g test and 100mg winny will yield better results than 300 test and 50g winny, all else being equal. He states that larges amounts aren't necessary to grow, period.)
> 
> I took this down the other week as I'm not leaving this sort of info up for long these days.
> 
> I'm putting it up for guys to have a good look at.
> 
> If you are experiencing side effects as shown below, your heart is at risk.
> 
> Stacking is not effective for anything other than increases fat and water.
> 
> You can mix up to two compounds with some advantage if you keep the doses low.
> 
> But once you get to 3 compounds in arbitrary volumes, throw some orals in and then use some caber, Nolva and a bit of AI, you've completely lost the plot.
> 
> If you are going to inject, you have no need for any orals. Taking orals doesn't mean there will be more effects because it's a different entry point.
> 
> If you are stacking and getting unreal results, you're getting fat. Anyone who 'blows up' rapidly is severely out of hormone balance and retaining water, just like insulin but the health effects are longer term. Look at 'marbling' in cuts of meat if you need to understand this concept.
> 
> Edit: you can read about these compounds as separate entities and see what they do. But once you start mixing them in the body, you can no longer rely on their properties as individual traits, they will interact in the results they yield.
> 
> View attachment 176583
> 
> 
> View attachment 176585
> 
> 
> View attachment 176587
> 
> 
> View attachment 176589
> 
> 
> View attachment 176591
> 
> 
> View attachment 176593
> 
> 
> View attachment 176595


 Lol, wtf is all that. Taking bro science to the extreme !


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo quick fire question, I'm 28 never taken AAS, pro hormones or anything along those lines.

Always ensure optimum Vitamin D and sleep plus a consistent amount of fat (whether these make much difference individually I don't know)

Current test levels are 28nmol, would that make any difference in terms of starting a cycle, with regards to PCT for example getting back to those levels or is there anything I need to do in addition to those starting from low levels for example.

I hope that makes some sort of sense or maybe I'm overthinking it?

Thank you & apologies if it's a stupid one!


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo quick fire question, I'm 28 never taken AAS, pro hormones or anything along those lines.
> 
> Always ensure optimum Vitamin D and sleep plus a consistent amount of fat (whether these make much difference individually I don't know)
> 
> Current test levels are 28nmol, would that make any difference in terms of starting a cycle, with regards to PCT for example getting back to those levels or is there anything I need to do in addition to those starting from low levels for example.
> 
> I hope that makes some sort of sense or maybe I'm overthinking it?
> 
> Thank you & apologies if it's a stupid one!


 Good question. It's great that you have your baseline because you can gauge how well PCT recovers your testosterone levels if you decide to blast/PCT.

You want to run HCG at 1,500 IU per week in 2-3 doses per week from the first day of injection and 2 weeks after your last injection. You will start clomid/nolvadex the day of your last injection. PCT is a total of 6-8 weeks. I recommend 8 weeks and waiting at least 6 weeks before re-testing testosterone levels to see if PCT did it's job.

If you want to maximize the chances of recovering to your natural baseline, stay away from trenbolone/nandrolone (deca). You can get away with lower/moderate doses and testosterone only cycles+orals, but it completely depends on two things, 1. Your physique goals (who/what do you want to look like) 2. Your genetic response to AAS. As a bonus, you can add HGH to get away with even less AAS.

After my experiments with HGH, i would say 300 mg testosterone+4 IU HGH will be at least as effective for building muscle+strength as 600 mg.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Good question. It's great that you have your baseline because you can gauge how well PCT recovers your testosterone levels if you decide to blast/PCT.
> 
> You want to run HCG at 1,500 IU per week in 2-3 doses per week from the first day of injection and 2 weeks after your last injection. You will start clomid/nolvadex the day of your last injection. PCT is a total of 6-8 weeks. I recommend 8 weeks and waiting at least 6 weeks before re-testing testosterone levels to see if PCT did it's job.
> 
> If you want to maximize the chances of recovering to your natural baseline, stay away from trenbolone/nandrolone (deca). You can get away with lower/moderate doses and testosterone only cycles+orals, but it completely depends on two things, 1. Your physique goals (who/what do you want to look like) 2. Your genetic response to AAS. As a bonus, you can add HGH to get away with even less AAS.
> 
> After my experiments with HGH, i would say 300 mg testosterone+4 IU HGH will be at least as effective for building muscle+strength as 600 mg.


 That's perfect, my cycle will be superdrol at 20mg ED and 300mg of test prop per week, which would seem in line with your advices of dosages.

As a person I'm not necessarily a fan, but I'd be aiming at a sort of David Laid physique hence opting for those compounds, I don't think it's out the question on the basis of me being naturally quite broad naturally (fingers crossed on a great genetic response!!)

Second cycle I will switch the superdrol for HGH, would never have considered that - so I will get reading and as ever - thank you so much!

I'd love to spend the week gaining some science knowledge (no ****!)

Thanks again.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Those pictures don't mean anything at all. Look at real world results, look at studies. People keep trying to re-invent the wheel. Some guys need less, some guys need more to get the same kind of growth due to differences in IGF-1/Androgen receptors, ACTN3 gene, muscle fiber, etc. We are all different. Higher doses = more muscle/more strength.
> 
> There is a saturation point wherein if you use too much but don't have the muscularity/experience level/diet+training to fully utilize the higher dosage. It's always good to start low/moderate and increase as you go and as needed. To often, guys are blasting higher doses as a crutch for poor training/diet (everyone thinks they know how to train/eat/recover right).
> 
> Orals are incredibly effecti nd have been used in combat sports, weightlifting/power lifting and body building to yield amazing results.
> 
> I also believe many guys don't need to take as much AAS as they do or any AAS at all to achieve the physique they want. We have all our opinions but i usually got by observable real-world results+science+studies. The pictures are just a bunch of mumble words and numbers and the literal definition of overcomplicating things, keep it simple, trust the process, reach your goals, rinse/repeat.


 I here you, I meant his statements about stacking being pointless etc. Seems against what everyone does and says, and like you say it seems against the studies and science also. He could put people on crazy high doses and no doubt source or supply the ass so it's good that he isn't advocating that approach...... However to suggest that stacking rest ten mast and winny isn't required and won't give better results than one of them alone or a single steroid at the same dose seems ludicrous based on the anabolic/androgenic rating alone. Thanks as usual for the input, my current cycle is going well so I'm happy.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> That's perfect, my cycle will be superdrol at 20mg ED and 300mg of test prop per week, which would seem in line with your advices of dosages.
> 
> As a person I'm not necessarily a fan, but I'd be aiming at a sort of David Laid physique hence opting for those compounds, I don't think it's out the question on the basis of me being naturally quite broad naturally (fingers crossed on a great genetic response!!)
> 
> Second cycle I will switch the superdrol for HGH, would never have considered that - so I will get reading and as ever - thank you so much!
> 
> I'd love to spend the week gaining some science knowledge (no ****!)
> 
> Thanks again.


 That will be an epic first cycle if you train and eat right. Make sure you are at a 500 calorie surplus and always increasing your weights/reps. If you bench 135 lbs for 8, you want to push for 225 lbs for 8, add 5-10 lbs per workout to your compound lifts without sacrificing form or safety as often as possible.

When you come off the cycle and transition to PCT, keep lifting the same weight. If you are able to keep your strength as close to possible as your cycle strength, it mean you will/have kept most of the muscle you gained.

I googled that guy, you will definitely need some "enhancement" to achieve, especially depending on your height and genetics. Taller physiques are harder to fill out with muscle and take more time/calories/effort. You should not need crazy doses to achieve it though, again depending on various factors.

Don't forget the 1,500 IU HCG.

For the second cycle, don't switch out the HGH for superdrol. Keep the superdrol and add HGH. Maybe bump Test P to 400-500 mg too and again, you MUST keep the caloric surplus and push the weights and reps higher as often as you can. This is what builds new muscle and strength. If you curl 30s for 12, you want to be curling 60s for 12 with perfect form. This will blow up your biceps and applies to any exercise and muscle group.

Glad to help brother, would love to hear you results during and after the cycle. Keep me posted


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> That will be an epic first cycle if you train and eat right. Make sure you are at a 500 calorie surplus and always increasing your weights/reps. If you bench 135 lbs for 8, you want to push for 225 lbs for 8, add 5-10 lbs per workout to your compound lifts without sacrificing form or safety as often as possible.
> 
> When you come off the cycle and transition to PCT, keep lifting the same weight. If you are able to keep your strength as close to possible as your cycle strength, it mean you will/have kept most of the muscle you gained.
> 
> I googled that guy, you will definitely need some "enhancement" to achieve, especially depending on your height and genetics. Taller physiques are harder to fill out with muscle and take more time/calories/effort. You should not need crazy doses to achieve it though, again depending on various factors.
> 
> Don't forget the 1,500 IU HCG.
> 
> For the second cycle, don't switch out the HGH for superdrol. Keep the superdrol and add HGH. Maybe bump Test P to 400-500 mg too and again, you MUST keep the caloric surplus and push the weights and reps higher as often as you can. This is what builds new muscle and strength. If you curl 30s for 12, you want to be curling 60s for 12 with perfect form. This will blow up your biceps and applies to any exercise and muscle group.
> 
> Glad to help brother, would love to hear you results during and after the cycle. Keep me posted


 Thank you so much, I keep a log of all our messages for future reference!

I'll be sure to keep you posted and I'm fairly confident the results will arrive.

I'll also ensure the HCG is in there!

LT


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I here you, I meant his statements about stacking being pointless etc. Seems against what everyone does and says, and like you say it seems against the studies and science also. He could put people on crazy high doses and no doubt source or supply the ass so it's good that he isn't advocating that approach...... However to suggest that stacking rest ten mast and winny isn't required and won't give better results than one of them alone or a single steroid at the same dose seems ludicrous based on the anabolic/androgenic rating alone. Thanks as usual for the input, my current cycle is going well so I'm happy.


 I'm not into stacking a bunch of things either. Masteron is pretty lackluster. Sticking to two compounds does the job most of the time but three can be very effective as well, IE. 500 mg test/500 mg deca+50 mg winstrol. That's magic right there. (With proper training/diet). The Test+19nor+oral stack is tried and true. It just works.

I'm into the best of both worlds, science+anecdotes (broscience). There is a lot to be learned from broscience that is often later proven/supported by real science years-decades later. Guys just did stuff, found out it worked, and spread the word. There IS a lot of junk info out there though too so it's good to be skeptical.

I never go in from the angle of "debating" or challening someone else's opinions or data. I try to objectively analyze it, see what i agree with and don't disagree with. Guys get too emotional and their egos get in the way when hearing something that goes against what they believe. You see this on forums where guy break out in arguments over this and that. It's okay to have different opinions, what works for you, works for you as the saying goes.

Glad to hear it brother, always happy to share knowledge.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Thank you so much, I keep a log of all our messages for future reference!
> 
> I'll be sure to keep you posted and I'm fairly confident the results will arrive.
> 
> I'll also ensure the HCG is in there!
> 
> LT


 Great to hear, the HCG will also preserve fertility as a bonus.


----------



## MrGRoberts

@El Chapo

Supplements for cholesterol and heart? 
Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Supplements for cholesterol and heart?
> Thanks


 Cardio and fat loss are # 1. Vitamin K2 and pycnogenol are good. K2 reduces arterial calcifcation, pycnogenol is a potent anti-oxidant and increases circulation.

Control BP if high, get lean (ideally 10-12%). Cardio can increase "good cholesterol", reduce and prevent arterial calcification, and a ton of other benefits.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> After my experiments with HGH, i would say 300 mg testosterone+4 IU HGH will be at least as effective for building muscle+strength as 600 mg.


 How would you dose the HGH? Is that 4iu / week?

I've found HGH subtle though seemed to help recovery and fat loss. Does seem to help localised fat loss at SQ jab site. However, could be a confidence as jabbing belly which is last area am dieting down. Pretty lean at most times. At present am more inclined to use HGH during a TRT cruise than when I up doses.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> How would you dose the HGH? Is that 4iu / week?
> 
> I've found HGH subtle though seemed to help recovery and fat loss. Does seem to help localised fat loss at SQ jab site. However, could be a confidence as jabbing belly which is last area am dieting down. Pretty lean at most times. At present am more inclined to use HGH during a TRT cruise than when I up doses.


 3-4 IU to get IGF-1 in the 300s. I find it doubles the effectiveness of AAS dosage for me.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> 3-4 IU to get IGF-1 in the 300s. I find it doubles the effectiveness of AAS dosage for me.


 3-4 IU ED?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo If someone s gyno keep growing on small dose test , does it mean his E2 is out of range ?

Mine is good and I feel good but If I don't take SERM it goes growing slowly but surely.

Until surgery , I let it grow since I hate SERMs side effects.


----------



## swole troll

I know you've both @Redsy & @Baka asked @ElChapo this so I'll allow him to give his own opinion

However 3-4iu weekly will be a total waste of cash

Hgh is not something to try to cheap out on

Its already very subtle even at a decent dose (20-30 units *weekly*)

0.5iu daily is the equivalent of spending your money on 20g of kobe steak when you could spend the same amount on a regular sirloin and actually get a worthy amount.

Fact of the matter is GH at even the most minimal effective dose (14iu per week) is a large cost for a small return on investment and 2iu daily is going to offer very small benefits like improved sleep that subsequently improves recovery, maybe a hair of body recomp if implemented correctly around cardio and during prolonged periods of fasting for the ffa liberation.

Unless you have the cash spare to very comfortably run at least 2iu daily (preferably 3-4) I wouldn't bother as even at 5iu daily you're not going to see a great deal of change in much except your bank account

I've said it a million times

The name needs to be changed from GROWTH hormone to sleep a little better, recover a little better, recomp a bit and get more out of your gear hormone

Although it doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same

Spend a third of what you plan to on gh on any steroid and you'll still gain more in every possible way than if you'd spent 3x as much on gh


----------



## Dannyb0yb

swole troll said:


> I know you've both @Redsy & @Baka asked @ElChapo this so I'll allow him to give his own opinion
> 
> However 3-4iu weekly will be a total waste of cash
> 
> Hgh is not something to try to cheap out on
> 
> Its already very subtle even at a decent dose (20-30 units *weekly*)
> 
> 0.5iu daily is the equivalent of spending your money on 20g of kobe steak when you could spend the same amount on a regular sirloin and actually get a worthy amount.
> 
> Fact of the matter is GH at even the most minimal effective dose (14iu per week) is a large cost for a small return on investment and 2iu daily is going to offer very small benefits like improved sleep that subsequently improves recovery, maybe a hair of body recomp if implemented correctly around cardio and during prolonged periods of fasting for the ffa liberation.
> 
> Unless you have the cash spare to very comfortably run at least 2iu daily (preferably 3-4) I wouldn't bother as even at 5iu daily you're not going to see a great deal of change in much except your bank account
> 
> I've said it a million times
> 
> The name needs to be changed from GROWTH hormone to sleep a little better, recover a little better, recomp a bit and get more out of your gear hormone
> 
> Although it doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same
> 
> Spend a third of what you plan to on gh on any steroid and you'll still gain more in every possible way than if you'd spent 3x as much on gh


 We've also talked about this before, and I agree.

I can't help but feel like HGH is misunderstood. Like you said, if just looking for some decent muscle mass, AAS is both incredibly more potent and much cheaper.

I think HGH is better aimed towards injuries and anti aging. My IQ/cognitive abilities have skyrocketed from HGH: memory, concentration, logical thinking. - This is pure speculation but I have done a lot of stimulant drugs in my youth, and I suspect that HGH/IGF have reversed some of that damage, brain wise.

My skin looks super smooth, my eye sight and sense of smell have improved.

I sleep like a baby, feel amazing and some old and serious injuries are showing mad progress.

In terms of fat loss and muscle mass gained? VERY modest. Perhaps 2-3 kg after 12 months?

So yeah, I think people's perception of HGH and what it does, is perhaps a bit misguided.

On a side note, I'm currently running one daily shot of 200 mcg mod grf and ipamorelin, followed up 15 minutes later by 4 iu of HGH. Injury recovery is through the roof


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I've heard/read multiple times that HGH takes time (up to 6 months) to show its effects due to it causing hyperplasia of muscle cells rather than primarily hypertrophy as seen with anabolics. Do the effects on recovery/sleep/mood/skin begin to work straight away? Or does GH and IGF need to be elevated for long periods of time before these benefits are seen/felt?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> 3-4 IU ED?


 Correct, bedtime to avoid daytime sleepiness and mimic your natural secretion ( biggest spike happens 1-2 hours after falling asleep )


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo If someone s gyno keep growing on small dose test , does it mean his E2 is out of range ?
> 
> Mine is good and I feel good but If I don't take SERM it goes growing slowly but surely.
> 
> Until surgery , I let it grow since I hate SERMs side effects.


 No, gyno sensitivity is genetic and you can get it even with normal E2. Gynoid tissue can also produce localized E2 that you won't see in the serum. This is one of the reasons AI don't work for gyno but SERMs do. So you might have undetectable E2 from blasting arimidex/aromasin, but the gyno can still produce it's own E2 inside the cell from testosterone and the other pre-cursors like DHEA, etc.

In your case, i would get surgery. It's unhealthy to be taking SERMs 24/7 just to keep gyno at bay. You're one of the cases that needs surgery. Stop using the SERMs before the surgery so it gets as big as it does, so they can cut it out properly.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> I know you've both @Redsy & @Baka asked @ElChapo this so I'll allow him to give his own opinion
> 
> However 3-4iu weekly will be a total waste of cash
> 
> Hgh is not something to try to cheap out on
> 
> Its already very subtle even at a decent dose (20-30 units *weekly*)
> 
> 0.5iu daily is the equivalent of spending your money on 20g of kobe steak when you could spend the same amount on a regular sirloin and actually get a worthy amount.
> 
> Fact of the matter is GH at even the most minimal effective dose (14iu per week) is a large cost for a small return on investment and 2iu daily is going to offer very small benefits like improved sleep that subsequently improves recovery, maybe a hair of body recomp if implemented correctly around cardio and during prolonged periods of fasting for the ffa liberation.
> 
> Unless you have the cash spare to very comfortably run at least 2iu daily (preferably 3-4) I wouldn't bother as even at 5iu daily you're not going to see a great deal of change in much except your bank account
> 
> I've said it a million times
> 
> The name needs to be changed from GROWTH hormone to sleep a little better, recover a little better, recomp a bit and get more out of your gear hormone
> 
> Although it doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same
> 
> Spend a third of what you plan to on gh on any steroid and you'll still gain more in every possible way than if you'd spent 3x as much on gh


 Yes, it really depends on your goals. There is very cheap, high quality chinese generics out there which make HGH cost effective for enhancing a cycle/anti-aging purposes/etc.

Most guys don't need it to reach their goals, but if IGF-1 is sub-optimal and you want it for anti-aging or you want to keep your doses as low as possible, or stack with insulin to get to the next level, it's a great tool.

It's overrated and not cost effective if you aren't using it for the right purposes or have a cost-effective source.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I've heard/read multiple times that HGH takes time (up to 6 months) to show its effects due to it causing hyperplasia of muscle cells rather than primarily hypertrophy as seen with anabolics. Do the effects on recovery/sleep/mood/skin begin to work straight away? Or does GH and IGF need to be elevated for long periods of time before these benefits are seen/felt?


 Not sold on the whole "hyperplasia" bro science thing. A lot of these things are based on "in vitro" studies AKA test tubes/cells, not living animals/humans. For instance, In Vitro, grape seed extract is a very potent AI, but En vivo ( In living animals/humans ) it does not doing anything to Estradiol levels.

We do know that GH stacked with insulin can make you massive if you train/eat right and have the experience level and muscularity for it. Bodybuilders started getting massive in the 90s when insulin+HGH hit the scene.

What i can tell you is that you will see some effects of HGH by week 2 like increased pump, libido, etc. I'll tell you what happened to me, after 6-8 weeks of HGH on a cruise dose of testosterone, i re-gained strength and mass that i had lost from blasting. That is pretty impressive. So for me, it makes 150 mg = 300-500 mg of testosterone. That's just my anecdotal experience. I take it for anti-aging purposes, all these effects are just a bonus to me.

Yes, the effects you mentioned start to work by weeks 1-2. It does take at least 4 weeks for IGF-1 to reach close to it's maximum levels. HGH has effects independent of it's increasing of IGF-1 levels.


----------



## Djibril

On the HGH topic, what are the effects of an "antiaging" Gh dose on cancer, i mean does it accelerate the chances you have?


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> On the HGH topic, what are the effects of an "antiaging" Gh dose on cancer, i mean does it accelerate the chances you have?


 Controversial topic. HGH would likely increase tumour growth once you have the cancer. There is some research showing a protective effect against cancer with low IGF-1, but you could also help prevent prostate cancer by castrating yourself, would you do it?

Cancer is one of those things that depends on genetics, lifestyle and luck. HGH might be a very tiny factor, if you are blasting very high doses for a short period of time, or physiological anti-aging doses year round, i would not be concerned myself. If you have a strong family or personal history of cancer/malignancy, i would be weary of using a lot of HGH, but remember we naturally produce this hormone and it is essential to good health.

GH/IGF deficient animals have a lower risk of cancer but many other health and quality of life issues, so pick your poison.


----------



## Djibril

Thanks a lot for your answer.

Actually my father passed away when he was 47 yo and my brother has cancer at the age of 32 . Thats why i ask..

Not thinnking of blasting at all to be honest maybe using after 35y for the anti ageing effects at a low dose


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> Thanks a lot for your answer.
> 
> Actually my father passed away when he was 47 yo and my brother has cancer at the age of 32 . Thats why i ask..
> 
> Not thinnking of blasting at all to be honest maybe using after 35y for the anti ageing effects at a low dose


 Yes, i would be weary and careful about HGH use with your history. I would test IGF-1 to get a baseline level and see if you would benefit from a low dosage.


----------



## stewedw

FYI, I know we can't discuss steroid prices so will tread carefully with gh prices.

However. 4iu a day min to fri is 80iu per month. That's costing slightly more than a score per week. Now you add in 500mg test from any ugl. Tops, that's a fiver. Add another two peda like npp and Winstrol and that's another seven quid.

So for approx forty quid a week you can run 3-4iu gh and a moderate to intermediate cycle.

People pay £50 a week to have their dog walked min to fri (Tis what I do lol) , so although it's relative to the individual, it's cheap to run aas and gh. . Food if you are making an attempt to gain muscle you would be circa £50-70 a week too. A night out in my home town plus taxis is £100..... Soooooo aye, gyms still cheaper and healthier than getting smashed once a week (and that's without revvy drugs)

Just my tuppence worth.


----------



## Phil114

ElChapo said:


> Don't worry about elevated estrogen so much, as you can see, you felt fine with "high estrogen". Estrogen will almost always be high with high testosterone. Testosterone only works because it converts to DHT/E2 and a bunch of other metabolites. You can see what happens when men take finasteride or anastrazole.
> 
> For erectile dysfunction or BPH, 5 mg daily or 20 mg x 2-3 per week. To improve already normal/healthy erections or for health benefits 2.5 mg daily, 5 mg x 3 per week, 10 mg x 2 per week are good doses.
> 
> It should work for you but it depends. Only one way to find out. Most of the people who it doesn't work for have severe circulatory problems down there. Knocking down E2 does more harm than good, even when you stay in the "normal" range.


 Hi ElChapo, I have had my blood test result back regarding the above and my coach has asked me to use 150mg masteron a week instead of an ai just wondering what your thoughts are? I've been on 300mg test for test week not sure whether to pct for now and let everything settle down a bit.


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Hi ElChapo, I have had my blood test result back regarding the above and my coach has asked me to use 150mg masteron a week instead of an ai just wondering what your thoughts are? I've been on 300mg test for test week not sure whether to pct for now and let everything settle down a bit.
> 
> View attachment 176685
> 
> 
> View attachment 176687
> 
> 
> View attachment 176689
> 
> 
> View attachment 176691


 It's a good idea. You need E2 for the benefits of testosterone, masteron can block the negative E2 symptoms while leaving the serum E2 untouched.

Do you have any symptoms? Keep your eye on your kidneys, your GFR is fairly low. This can be cause by having high blood pressure for a long time, high blood sugar or sluggish thyroid.


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## Phil114

The only symptoms I'm currently having is no random erections morning wood ect it's ok when needed but that could be the cialis though. I have had high blood pressure recently so cardio has been introduce at 20 minutes a session. My girlfriend has recently been talking about kids so u think now might be a good time to pct and go natural for a while or at least until she gets pregnant?


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo Good afternoon Sir, just wondered your thoughts with regards to a deca only cycles - there has been a few topics and a lot of what appears to be bro science around it on here and I know you like to & have the knowledge to bust broscience (I'm genuinely not proposing this cycle myself, just intrigued)

I of course understand the DHN/DHT side of things in terms of the benefits and pretty much necessity of having DHT but in the short term could an individual get away with it? I guess if you're going to run a DHT oral alongside such as proviron you may as well just run test, maybe prop paired with NPP to reduce the cycle length, granted deca is deca regardless of the ester.

As I say just genuinely intrigued if an individual and it's usually those worried about hair loss, could for example run NPP only cycles even at low dose for 8-10 weeks if they weren't concerned about the DHT side of things in the short term.

LT


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> The only symptoms I'm currently having is no random erections morning wood ect it's ok when needed but that could be the cialis though. I have had high blood pressure recently so cardio has been introduce at 20 minutes a session. My girlfriend has recently been talking about kids so u think now might be a good time to pct and go natural for a while or at least until she gets pregnant?


 How high is the BP? You can also run HCG to restore fertility while taking AAS/testosterone. 1,500 IU per week. You can also run clomid with this stack to enhance the HCG. This goes against common wisdom of how the HPTA works but a study showed clomid can still work with TRT.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo Good afternoon Sir, just wondered your thoughts with regards to a deca only cycles - there has been a few topics and a lot of what appears to be bro science around it on here and I know you like to & have the knowledge to bust broscience (I'm genuinely not proposing this cycle myself, just intrigued)
> 
> I of course understand the DHN/DHT side of things in terms of the benefits and pretty much necessity of having DHT but in the short term could an individual get away with it? I guess if you're going to run a DHT oral alongside such as proviron you may as well just run test, maybe prop paired with NPP to reduce the cycle length, granted deca is deca regardless of the ester.
> 
> As I say just genuinely intrigued if an individual and it's usually those worried about hair loss, could for example run NPP only cycles even at low dose for 8-10 weeks if they weren't concerned about the DHT side of things in the short term.
> 
> LT


 The human body is extremely resilient. You could probably run Nandrolone as HRT forever. There are men walking around with extremely low testosterone levels and they still function and grow old, etc.

Sure, NPP only cycle can work. Lots of guys run these. In my experience and others, NPP/TREN can actually increase libido when you run them without testosterone in certain cases and not cause ED. It depends on the person though.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> The human body is extremely resilient. You could probably run Nandrolone as HRT forever. There are men walking around with extremely low testosterone levels and they still function and grow old, etc.
> 
> Sure, NPP only cycle can work. Lots of guys run these. In my experience and others, NPP/TREN can actually increase libido when you run them without testosterone in certain cases and not cause ED. It depends on the person though.


 I presumed that you could just about survive, although not optimal due to DHT etc. and then the possibility of ED of course which is not ideal - unless you're an incel.

Some people think you inject deca and that the world ends, but as you say there are plenty of people strolling around with no test that don't even know it at least you would know when injecting deca and could take ancillaries to help combat sides where possible.


----------



## Phil114

ElChapo said:


> How high is the BP? You can also run HCG to restore fertility while taking AAS/testosterone. 1,500 IU per week. You can also run clomid with this stack to enhance the HCG. This goes against common wisdom of how the HPTA works but a study showed clomid can still work with TRT.


 I normally got around those readings how successful would running hcg be on cycle for fertility considering lh fsh are at rock bottom wouldn't hmg need to be run? In the long run wouldn't a pct be more successful when trying to convince?


----------



## Playtowin

Hey @El Chapo

Whats your thoughts on Hygetropin HGH (Hygene) - 200iu?

is 4/6iu m/w/f a good dose for fat loss?

Can it help grow a women's hair? My GF spends £120 a quarter on s**t hair minerals which I know do jack s**t. Just curious.


----------



## Djibril

What is your opinion about all the talk and attention metformin gets the last few years.

Do you use it or believe its worth using it ?


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> I presumed that you could just about survive, although not optimal due to DHT etc. and then the possibility of ED of course which is not ideal - unless you're an incel.
> 
> Some people think you inject deca and that the world ends, but as you say there are plenty of people strolling around with no test that don't even know it at least you would know when injecting deca and could take ancillaries to help combat sides where possible.


 DECA will be able to perform some of the actions of testosterone/DHT. This is analogous to women who use depo provera AKA Medroxyprogesterone as female hormone replacement in place of real progesterone. It's not the same, but it does the job. Medroxyprogesterone is a synthetic progestin, similar to how Nandrolone is a manmade/synthetic testosterone analogue (technically Nandrolone has been found in nature in very small quantities).

Like i said, many guys find that tren/deca solo not only works but can lead to great libido/erections. It seems adding testosterone throws this off somehow.


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> I normally got around those readings how successful would running hcg be on cycle for fertility considering lh fsh are at rock bottom wouldn't hmg need to be run? In the long run wouldn't a pct be more successful when trying to convince?
> 
> View attachment 176713


 You need to be more specific so i can answer more thoroughly, but generally, HCG at 1,500 IU per week with TRT or a blast will preserve fertility. Adding HMG makes that even more effective but HMG is very expensive and hard to source, so it's best to save that for when you are actually trying to conceive or when HCG isn't working.

TRT+HCG+Clomid (+ HMG if you can get it) is effective enough most of the time and coming off to PCT is not necessary and greatly impairs quality of life and libido (You will need some if you are trying to have babies)


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Hey @El Chapo
> 
> Whats your thoughts on Hygetropin HGH (Hygene) - 200iu?
> 
> is 4/6iu m/w/f a good dose for fat loss?
> 
> Can it help grow a women's hair? My GF spends £120 a quarter on s**t hair minerals which I know do jack s**t. Just curious.


 The brand doesn't matter for two reasons. 1. Any source can get counterfeit brand hyge and 2. every source can vary in quality from batch to batch.

Your best bet is to order from a reputable source that preferably has recent blood results from other users, and test the kits yourself with GH serum test and/or IGF-1 testing upon receipt.

HGH will be very lackluster for fat loss. DNP is much more effective for this purpose.

Tell her to stop wasting her money, if she has hair loss you need to look into nutrition/vitamins/thyroid hormone level/Sex hormones (testosterone/estradiol/progesterone). Tell her to start using Nizoral 2% shampoo daily, it will thicken and help grow out her hair. HGH can increase how fast the hair grows, she can run at 3 IU for this purpose. Get her on a multivitamin like Now Foods True Balance. It's very cheap and high quality. It contains Biotin and a bunch of other stuff that will assist hair growth.

Does she have poor hair growth? Thnning hair? Or does she just want it to grow faster?


----------



## ElChapo

Stathis said:


> What is your opinion about all the talk and attention metformin gets the last few years.
> 
> Do you use it or believe its worth using it ?


 I don't care for it at the moment, there is mixed data on the benefits/drawbacks. I don't see a reason to use it myself.

Cardiovascular exercise > Metformin


----------



## Phil114

ElChapo said:


> You need to be more specific so i can answer more thoroughly, but generally, HCG at 1,500 IU per week with TRT or a blast will preserve fertility. Adding HMG makes that even more effective but HMG is very expensive and hard to source, so it's best to save that for when you are actually trying to conceive or when HCG isn't working.
> 
> TRT+HCG+Clomid (+ HMG if you can get it) is effective enough most of the time and coming off to PCT is not necessary and greatly impairs quality of life and libido (You will need some if you are trying to have babies)


 Would it not be better to let fsh lh to come.back through a pct? Iv been on for around 6 months now which is a long cycle and I'm only 27 and I don't think I'm ready to commit to using steriods on a blast and cruise basis to be honest. Would you say recovery will be very hard now? My idea was to use cialis during recovery until my test ect fall back within the normal ranges to keep everything working downstairs ect.


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Would it not be better to let fsh lh to come.back through a pct? Iv been on for around 6 months now which is a long cycle and I'm only 27 and I don't think I'm ready to commit to using steriods on a blast and cruise basis to be honest. Would you say recovery will be very hard now? My idea was to use cialis during recovery until my test ect fall back within the normal ranges to keep everything working downstairs ect.


 What were you on for 6 months? Do you know your baseline testosterone levels?

Did you use HCG at all during this time?

You can do PCT, sure. You can run clomid after PCT until you conceive. Make sure you time intercourse with your partners fertility period which is around ovulation, this is the only time when the sperm can actually implant and create a baby. Otherwise you are wasting your time. "saving up" sperm actually works too, ejaculating on a daily basis is counter-productive, try to save it up for her fertility window. This is very important.


----------



## Phil114

ElChapo said:


> What were you on for 6 months? Do you know your baseline testosterone levels?
> 
> Did you use HCG at all during this time?
> 
> You can do PCT, sure. You can run clomid after PCT until you conceive. Make sure you time intercourse with your partners fertility period which is around ovulation, this is the only time when the sperm can actually implant and create a baby. Otherwise you are wasting your time. "saving up" sperm actually works too, ejaculating on a daily basis is counter-productive, try to save it up for her fertility window. This is very important.


 Baselines testosterone was 23 nmol/L and I was 300mg of test and no unfortunately I didn't use hcg which if I go back on at some point I will implement in the future cycles.


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

Long read, but could you shed any light on this as the suggestion (again blanketly) is that you can only grow a small amount of muscle per day/week and that food drugs and more food will just add fat to this.....

Thank in advance for reading etc.

So here is what is happening on a bulk.

You can read across the whole of biology and check every point I make. You can compare that with what we see in the pics across Facebook. All the lines should marry up and agree.

Firstly we need to look at how protein is formed. In cells that create muscle proteins you have a nucleus. Think of it as a record needle. It can only play one track at a time. I'm simple terms, a hormone binds with a receptor and set of genetic codons, these pass through the nucleus and split some DNA, make some temporary DNA then send that to a ribosome. There can be up to 10 million ribosomes in a cell, but there is only one nucleus.

Ribosomes can fix together up to 200 amino acids a minute to form a protein. Some larger proteins in muscle can take 2-3 hours to form. Then they have to be assembled into a structure through a number of other processes. None of this can be speeded up, if you could, it would result in mutations.

The process relies on equilibrium in the cytoplasm drawing the newly formed branch to a low density area of the cell fluid. After which the endoplasmic reticulum checks the proteins and begins the next phase of organisation.

After all that, we are still left with individual proteins. This is before the stages of apportionment to structure. I could go on. But you get a feel of the process. It's not quick.

If you are absolutely optimised for maximum muscle growth, you'll be very lucky to put on 30g of protein a day. After attrition of cells, this most likely equates to around 15g of new muscle per day in larger men.

Fat is a different matter. You put carbs in, they feed into cells for transport, free circulating carbs are then converted limitlessly into fat through the liver and fat cells can be directly fed with glucose/glycogen. That's it. If you are in around 40% surplus of you requirements you can form 90g of fat per day. Easily too.

Given the amount of protein that can be formed compared to the overborne sugars, no matter how you calculate your macros on a shitty internet calculator, you cannot functionally use all those calories. They are gonna get stored. The body is completely geared towards the ability to store energy.

The process of osmosis is water balance across semi permeable membranes. Equilibrium yet again, except the water moves to achieve it rather than solute/particle scattering through Brownian motion or ionic forces.

Basically, the more salt and carbs in your cells, the more water you will hold. The bigger your cells will become, the heavier you will become on pure water weight alone. 1 Litre of water is 1 Kg. You shouldn't be looking at the scales anyway, they only tell you how much gravitational force is between you and the earth. Nothing else. The mirror is where to look.

Add in too much testosterone and ridiculous stacks, you will create too much oestrogen as you saturate testosterone capacity. This increases your salt balance. Making you pull more water into the cells. Your weight goes up, you bloat further. Oestrogen catalyses energy transport in the muscle. If you have more energy posited in the muscle than you are using, you form fat. More fat makes you more oestrogenic, holding more salt, moving more energy storing more carbs, filling you with more water.

All this time of accelerated bloat and fat, your muscle is growing no faster. You are simply getting fat. You may look big, you may weigh a lot, but you are definitely getting fat.

Oestrogen is given to cattle to create marbling in beef as seen in the picture above. Let that sink in, in line with the paragraphs above.

All this water will strain your heart on both sides, for no useful reason.

When Guys 'come off' and 'lose muscle' they are mistaken. They are watching their salt balance recover and water drains out through the happy pipe.

They will then go into a cut to burn off the pointless fat that's been causing accelerated fat growth.

Seems like carrying a pack of bricks up a mountain just to enable you to take a pack of bricks down a mountain. All the time, your muscle was just building at the same rate it does without the fat.

During this phase, the more endurance you are capable of, the more sugars you will recruit into your muscle cells, the more water you will hold.

You cannot build muscle any quicker, you can build fat rapidly, you can take on water in seconds. Just look at your daily variations in weight. Up to 5kg a day fluctuation depending on diet and water intake.

You cannot atrophy muscle quickly either, it is made of proteins that took time to build and can withstand incredible strains, they are not made of rice paper. What you will see is carbs and salt drop, this water, thus we 'flatten out and deflate' in a cut.

When you come off gear, you drop water, then fat.

Stacking, bulking, high calorie intake does not build muscle, it just changes your muscle composition.

Herein lies the flaws in some studies that are misguiding many bodybuilders.

Too much juice + too much carbs = fat and water.

Just look at bulk and cut photos... does that match what we see? If it does, it's just been described above.

Just think of all those chemicals you used in a cut, all those stimulants, when you didn't need to get fat to begin with.

You can't measure muscle growth with a tape measure. You need a cross-sectional biopsy.

It's hard to see what is actually happening under the skin, but this is what is happening, biologically. Have another look at that cut of beef....


----------



## MrGRoberts

@El Chapo

If on TRT and under a doctor supervision is there any AAS you can take that won't ruin blood markers and make testosterone higher than it actually is on the blood test?

Mast?

Primo?

Anything? Haha

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Baselines testosterone was 23 nmol/L and I was 300mg of test and no unfortunately I didn't use hcg which if I go back on at some point I will implement in the future cycles.


 You might be okay, run HCG 5,000 IU per week for 2 weeks and clomid 100 mg/nolvadex 20 mg. Start this on the last day of injection. Stop the HCG after 2 weeks and the clomid/nolvadex after 8 weeks.

You can keep running the clomid after 8 weeks until conception. Use cialis in case clomid causes ED or PCT doesn't work. You have a good chance of PCT working. Next time you go back on testosterone or AAS, make sure you run HCG the whole time if you are going to eventually PCT or want more kids.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Long read, but could you shed any light on this as the suggestion (again blanketly) is that you can only grow a small amount of muscle per day/week and that food drugs and more food will just add fat to this.....
> 
> Thank in advance for reading etc.
> 
> So here is what is happening on a bulk.
> 
> You can read across the whole of biology and check every point I make. You can compare that with what we see in the pics across Facebook. All the lines should marry up and agree.
> 
> Firstly we need to look at how protein is formed. In cells that create muscle proteins you have a nucleus. Think of it as a record needle. It can only play one track at a time. I'm simple terms, a hormone binds with a receptor and set of genetic codons, these pass through the nucleus and split some DNA, make some temporary DNA then send that to a ribosome. There can be up to 10 million ribosomes in a cell, but there is only one nucleus.
> 
> Ribosomes can fix together up to 200 amino acids a minute to form a protein. Some larger proteins in muscle can take 2-3 hours to form. Then they have to be assembled into a structure through a number of other processes. None of this can be speeded up, if you could, it would result in mutations.
> 
> The process relies on equilibrium in the cytoplasm drawing the newly formed branch to a low density area of the cell fluid. After which the endoplasmic reticulum checks the proteins and begins the next phase of organisation.
> 
> After all that, we are still left with individual proteins. This is before the stages of apportionment to structure. I could go on. But you get a feel of the process. It's not quick.
> 
> If you are absolutely optimised for maximum muscle growth, you'll be very lucky to put on 30g of protein a day. After attrition of cells, this most likely equates to around 15g of new muscle per day in larger men.
> 
> Fat is a different matter. You put carbs in, they feed into cells for transport, free circulating carbs are then converted limitlessly into fat through the liver and fat cells can be directly fed with glucose/glycogen. That's it. If you are in around 40% surplus of you requirements you can form 90g of fat per day. Easily too.
> 
> Given the amount of protein that can be formed compared to the overborne sugars, no matter how you calculate your macros on a shitty internet calculator, you cannot functionally use all those calories. They are gonna get stored. The body is completely geared towards the ability to store energy.
> 
> The process of osmosis is water balance across semi permeable membranes. Equilibrium yet again, except the water moves to achieve it rather than solute/particle scattering through Brownian motion or ionic forces.
> 
> Basically, the more salt and carbs in your cells, the more water you will hold. The bigger your cells will become, the heavier you will become on pure water weight alone. 1 Litre of water is 1 Kg. You shouldn't be looking at the scales anyway, they only tell you how much gravitational force is between you and the earth. Nothing else. The mirror is where to look.
> 
> Add in too much testosterone and ridiculous stacks, you will create too much oestrogen as you saturate testosterone capacity. This increases your salt balance. Making you pull more water into the cells. Your weight goes up, you bloat further. Oestrogen catalyses energy transport in the muscle. If you have more energy posited in the muscle than you are using, you form fat. More fat makes you more oestrogenic, holding more salt, moving more energy storing more carbs, filling you with more water.
> 
> All this time of accelerated bloat and fat, your muscle is growing no faster. You are simply getting fat. You may look big, you may weigh a lot, but you are definitely getting fat.
> 
> Oestrogen is given to cattle to create marbling in beef as seen in the picture above. Let that sink in, in line with the paragraphs above.
> 
> All this water will strain your heart on both sides, for no useful reason.
> 
> When Guys 'come off' and 'lose muscle' they are mistaken. They are watching their salt balance recover and water drains out through the happy pipe.
> 
> They will then go into a cut to burn off the pointless fat that's been causing accelerated fat growth.
> 
> Seems like carrying a pack of bricks up a mountain just to enable you to take a pack of bricks down a mountain. All the time, your muscle was just building at the same rate it does without the fat.
> 
> During this phase, the more endurance you are capable of, the more sugars you will recruit into your muscle cells, the more water you will hold.
> 
> You cannot build muscle any quicker, you can build fat rapidly, you can take on water in seconds. Just look at your daily variations in weight. Up to 5kg a day fluctuation depending on diet and water intake.
> 
> You cannot atrophy muscle quickly either, it is made of proteins that took time to build and can withstand incredible strains, they are not made of rice paper. What you will see is carbs and salt drop, this water, thus we 'flatten out and deflate' in a cut.
> 
> When you come off gear, you drop water, then fat.
> 
> Stacking, bulking, high calorie intake does not build muscle, it just changes your muscle composition.
> 
> Herein lies the flaws in some studies that are misguiding many bodybuilders.
> 
> Too much juice + too much carbs = fat and water.
> 
> Just look at bulk and cut photos... does that match what we see? If it does, it's just been described above.
> 
> Just think of all those chemicals you used in a cut, all those stimulants, when you didn't need to get fat to begin with.
> 
> You can't measure muscle growth with a tape measure. You need a cross-sectional biopsy.
> 
> It's hard to see what is actually happening under the skin, but this is what is happening, biologically. Have another look at that cut of beef....


 Again, over complicating a beautifully simple process.

Eat enough calories/Increase weight+reps/Rest+recover = Muscle & strength increases. Keep the surplus lower if you want to limit fat gain. +250-300 calories is a good "lean bulk" target. The standard +500 is also okay.

As for AAS dose, start low/moderate and as you gain strength/muscle/experience you can gradually add more compounds and higher weekly mg. It depends on your goals, experience, level and genetic response to AAS. Of course, this is contingent on training/eating properly which many do not know how to use which is why they blast massive doses of AAS as a crutch.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If on TRT and under a doctor supervision is there any AAS you can take that won't ruin blood markers and make testosterone higher than it actually is on the blood test?
> 
> Mast?
> 
> Primo?
> 
> Anything? Haha
> 
> Thanks


 If you use the ECLIA method of testing testosterone, it can pick up other AAS like Deca/NPP as testosterone and cause false elevation. If you use the LC/MS method, it will only pick up testosterone as testosterone. The LC/MS method is usually the "uncapped" test that goes over 1.500 ng/dL and has no limit.

Masteron is fairly mild and should not affect blood markers. It may have a mild effect on HDL cholesterol but liver enzymes and HCT should come back normal. NPP/Deca could also work well BUT it must be the LC/MS test used to check testosterone, otherwise it will come out as elevated testosterone.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> If you use the ECLIA method of testing testosterone, it can pick up other AAS like Deca/NPP as testosterone and cause false elevation. If you use the LC/MS method, it will only pick up testosterone as testosterone. The LC/MS method is usually the "uncapped" test that goes over 1.500 ng/dL and has no limit.
> 
> Masteron is fairly mild and should not affect blood markers. It may have a mild effect on HDL cholesterol but liver enzymes and HCT should come back normal. NPP/Deca could also work well BUT it must be the LC/MS test used to check testosterone, otherwise it will come out as elevated testosterone.


 Will have to find out which method is used then. 
What about Primo? Never tried it. 
Was thinking TRT test, Primo & HGH would be nice


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Will have to find out which method is used then.
> What about Primo? Never tried it.
> Was thinking TRT test, Primo & HGH would be nice


 Primo might work, it's a DHT derivative. It's fairly mild.

HGH would definitely work.


----------



## Simon90

Apologies as i know it has been asked on here but struggling to find it. 125mg vs 250mg on a cruise dose? Would there be a difference in blood markers when cruising on the higher dose compared to the lower dose?


----------



## SoberHans

El Chapo what do you think of Greg Doucettes videos on YouTube?

I find him entertaining and he obviously knows how to get in great shape and I like how he calls out the bullshitters.

I'd like to know what you think of his training theories, in particular that you can build muscle in a deficit even at an advanced stage?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Apologies as i know it has been asked on here but struggling to find it. 125mg vs 250mg on a cruise dose? Would there be a difference in blood markers when cruising on the higher dose compared to the lower dose?


 Depends on the person, some people would get optimal levels on 125 mg, other might need more. Everyone's "optimal" level is different too. Blood markers are also different by person. Some guys will get low HDL and high hematocrit, high bp, etc even on low dose TRT. Others can blast high doses and be fine.

250 mg will be superior for strength/mass maintenance. The higher the dose, the higher the risk that blood markers will be off, but they can also be addressed in their own way. There is no guarantee, everyone is different.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> El Chapo what do you think of Greg Doucettes videos on YouTube?
> 
> I find him entertaining and he obviously knows how to get in great shape and I like how he calls out the bullshitters.
> 
> I'd like to know what you think of his training theories, in particular that you can build muscle in a deficit even at an advanced stage?
> 
> Thanks


 I don't know who that is.

Building muscle in a deficit is unlikely, especially at the advanced stage. It can happen under certain circumstances like a novice/beginner lifter, obese/overweight lifters, and lifters using AAS for the first time. There's also a genetic component to this.

Also be weary of guys trying to re-invent the wheel and going "against the grain". I have some pretty controversial ideas sometimes myself, so it's up to you to use critical thinking to decipher the BS from the real deal. Many guys will come up with new ideas that contradict the "common wisdom" in order to get attention/build a following, since parroting the same thing that everyone else does doesn't get you as many viewers/followers.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> I don't know who that is.
> 
> Building muscle in a deficit is unlikely, especially at the advanced stage. It can happen under certain circumstances like a novice/beginner lifter, obese/overweight lifters, and lifters using AAS for the first time. There's also a genetic component to this.
> 
> Also be weary of guys trying to re-invent the wheel and going "against the grain". I have some pretty controversial ideas sometimes myself, so it's up to you to use critical thinking to decipher the BS from the real deal. Many guys will come up with new ideas that contradict the "common wisdom" in order to get attention/build a following, since parroting the same thing that everyone else does doesn't get you as many viewers/followers.


 Thanks for the reply.

I'd recommend his channel though, you should check it out.

He's 44, openly admits he is on TRT and does cycles and in great shape. Like yourself he recommends staying lean all the time.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I'd recommend his channel though, you should check it out.
> 
> He's 44, openly admits he is on TRT and does cycles and in great shape. Like yourself he recommends staying lean all the time.


 If you want to hear my thoughts on a specific opinion or idea he has, feel free to post the video or tell me and i'll let you know what my thoughts are on the matter.


----------



## swole troll

What's you're general thoughts on dnp

I saw you mention it in the last page of this thread

Thoughts on dosage for a decent balance between results vs sides, length of usage and long term effect

Basically what would a sensible cycle inc any supplements to assist in sides look like.

I've Also heard it has been associated with cataracts


----------



## Conscript

Do you believe what is being said in this video? Any thoughts? It's very profound stuff imo.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> What's you're general thoughts on dnp
> 
> I saw you mention it in the last page of this thread
> 
> Thoughts on dosage for a decent balance between results vs sides, length of usage and long term effect
> 
> Basically what would a sensible cycle inc any supplements to assist in sides look like.
> 
> I've Also heard it has been associated with cataracts


 250 mg does the job with minimal/mild side effects, stack with EC to address fatigue/cravings or hunger and further enhance fat loss. Add some light cardio like walking. This works better than blasting more than 250 mg without adding the EC+cardio since you won't be dragging ass will be able to train, work, etc while burning a ton of calories rapidly.

Limiting the use to no longer than 8-12 weeks max at 250 mg is fairly safe. I've heard of some crazy people running it year round, that's when i would be concerned.


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> Do you believe what is being said in this video? Any thoughts? It's very profound stuff imo.


 Yep, looked through it quickly at the main points.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@El Chapo have you looked into NAD and NMN for anti aging.

David sinclair, a harvard anti aging professor, was on the joe rogan podcast talking about it.

I was thinking of investing in it when funds allow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/02/anti-aging-researcher-david-sinclair-takes-metformin-nmn-nad-for-longevity.html%3famp


----------



## TDXB

Hi @El Chapo

what do you think of cutting out all animal products and going vegan?

Both for overall health/wellbeing in general and bodybuilding.

thanks


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo Will training with higher repetitions cause more hypertrophy of slow twitch (endurance) fibres compared to fast twitch muscle fibres? I love both bodybuilding and boxing as sports and train hard for both. Would my boxing training benefit from lifting weights in the 15-30 rep range rather than the usual 7-12? I understand that hypertrophy of muscle will not benefit my boxing ability as it definitely reduces handspeed and explosiveness due to simply having heavier arms/delts. But was wondering whether I can offset this slightly by developing more of the slow twitch fibres which have greater capacity for endurance? (E.g barbell rows and OHP using moderate weight (40-80kg) and aiming for a minimum of 15 reps and max 30?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @El Chapo have you looked into NAD and NMN for anti aging.
> 
> David sinclair, a harvard anti aging professor, was on the joe rogan podcast talking about it.
> 
> I was thinking of investing in it when funds allow.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/02/anti-aging-researcher-david-sinclair-takes-metformin-nmn-nad-for-longevity.html%3famp


 Still to early to tell on all this stuff. longevity has an extremely strong genetic component to it. For instance the FOX gene which is found in people who live to 100. Of course lifestyle place a significant part as well.

Generally, your best bet is to stay fit and strong into your senior years, don't smoke, if you drink do it in moderation, stay connected with friends and family. Of course, controlling hypertension and other health markers is important too and remember, quality of life should be prioritized over pure life extension. Sometimes death is a kindness if your condition is bad enough.

You can see if you have the FOX longevity gene with 23andme and running your raw data file through promethease.com.


----------



## ElChapo

TDXB said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> what do you think of cutting out all animal products and going vegan?
> 
> Both for overall health/wellbeing in general and bodybuilding.
> 
> thanks


 There is zero health benefit to being a vegan. We are omnivores and have optimal health when we consume both plant/animal based foods in balance. Remember that in any situation one extreme or another in any context is usually a bad thing. Vegan is unnatural and you can see that by all the supplementation required to maintain micronutrient balance in the body (vitamins/minerals). They found that giving vegans creatine sharply improved cognitive function because the diet lead to a strong deficiency, and that's just for creatine.

Vegetarian diet is much more balance and can be very good for you. You can still have eggs and dairy (dairy is not bad), you will get your vitamins/minerals found in animal based proteins.

The other extreme, keto/carnivore diets are just as unbalanced/unhealthy. You need carbs in your diet for optimal function/performance. Glucose is the most efficient fuel in our body, we can use fats/ketones but think of those as "green energy" and glucose/sugar/carbs as high octane fuel. There's a reason the body prefers this, it's just the way our physiology works. Certain people do better with more/less carbs, but you need both.

Animal protein is not bad for you. I saw some horseshit propaganda documentary on Netflix called "What the health" that has brainwashed many many people into shunning animal based food and meat.

Adding to the previous question and this one, my great-grandfather lived to 104 years old on pork/eggs/bread etc. He was still able to walk/talk/etc and not just exist on a hospital bed attached to tubes and monitors. The real thing that is killing us is our sedentary lifestyles, being fat, etc. Most people i know/have seen that age well into 100 are almost always lean.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> quality of life should be prioritized over pure life extension.


 this is an excellent quote ^

I've always said you're worried about tupperware leaking chemicals into your food or the 'harmful' effects of aspartame yet will gladly slog back pints of beer on the weekend and live in a polluted city...

if life extension is ALL that you care about go and live in a field free from pollution and eat organic home grown vegetables and consume fresh water from natural springs

no?.. that'd be boring and lacking the things you enjoy in life?
well then it's proof even to yourself that balance is key and you should weigh your own risk vs reward to eating a few pieces of pizza, drinking a little alcohol at a celebration, taking PEDs to achieve your goals vs eating pizza every day, getting hammered every weekend and blasting tren year round

It's like people get so tunnel visioned on longevity when it's all about balance, the two options arn't simply eat pizza every single day or not at all or blast PEDs year round or not at all, find the balance that you feel is worth the risk and enjoy your time whilst 'trying' to maximize it.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo Will training with higher repetitions cause more hypertrophy of slow twitch (endurance) fibres compared to fast twitch muscle fibres? I love both bodybuilding and boxing as sports and train hard for both. Would my boxing training benefit from lifting weights in the 15-30 rep range rather than the usual 7-12? I understand that hypertrophy of muscle will not benefit my boxing ability as it definitely reduces handspeed and explosiveness due to simply having heavier arms/delts. But was wondering whether I can offset this slightly by developing more of the slow twitch fibres which have greater capacity for endurance? (E.g barbell rows and OHP using moderate weight (40-80kg) and aiming for a minimum of 15 reps and max 30?


 In real life, it doesn't matter that much. Punching power and explosiveness comes down to 2 things.

1. Genetics (Fast twitch fiber/ACTN 3)

2. Technique (turning your foot, hips, torso, and delts, relaxing completely/explode/at the point of contact stiffen your body into the target to transfer the concussive energy) Accuracy is important too, you've seen people dropped with fairly light punches that hit the chin directly. Aim for the human "OFF" button.

Boxing is a mix of aerobic (between rounds/period when you aren't exchanging blows) and anaerobic (when you are throwing punches/combinations/bobbing etc) so you need both slow and fast twitch fibers. Aerobic exercise will enhance your overall stamina through the rounds and recovery between rounds and exchanges. Anaerobic exercise will increase your capacity/intensity during exchanges.

For athletes, it's best to incorporate low rep training to build explosiveness and speed/power. Slow twitch/bodybuilding training would be the worst type, as you said, it will slow you down. You want to increase power without increasing your weight too much. Bodybuilders tend to hold more mass/strength where powerlifters have more strength/mass ratio. As an athlete, you want to limit useless weight gain.

If you want endurance, hit the road for distance and do lots of rounds of sparring, that will build up your legs/arms for long rounds. Hit the squats/deads/bench for 3-5 reps x 1-2 per week, too much will cook your body and decrease performance in the ring.

You can see if you have ACTN3 on 23and me and running your raw data file through promethease.com.


----------



## TDXB

ElChapo said:


> There is zero health benefit to being a vegan. We are omnivores and have optimal health when we consume both plant/animal based foods in balance. Remember that in any situation one extreme or another in any context is usually a bad thing. Vegan is unnatural and you can see that by all the supplementation required to maintain micronutrient balance in the body (vitamins/minerals). They found that giving vegans creatine sharply improved cognitive function because the diet lead to a strong deficiency, and that's just for creatine.
> 
> Vegetarian diet is much more balance and can be very good for you. You can still have eggs and dairy (dairy is not bad), you will get your vitamins/minerals found in animal based proteins.
> 
> The other extreme, keto/carnivore diets are just as unbalanced/unhealthy. You need carbs in your diet for optimal function/performance. Glucose is the most efficient fuel in our body, we can use fats/ketones but think of those as "green energy" and glucose/sugar/carbs as high octane fuel. There's a reason the body prefers this, it's just the way our physiology works. Certain people do better with more/less carbs, but you need both.
> 
> Animal protein is not bad for you. I saw some horseshit propaganda documentary on Netflix called "What the health" that has brainwashed many many people into shunning animal based food and meat.
> 
> Adding to the previous question and this one, my great-grandfather lived to 104 years old on pork/eggs/bread etc. He was still able to walk/talk/etc and not just exist on a hospital bed attached to tubes and monitors. The real thing that is killing us is our sedentary lifestyles, being fat, etc. Most people i know/have seen that age well into 100 are almost always lean.


 Thanks man. 
watched "The Gamechangers", "What the Health" and "Forks over Knives" last night, made me think.

so you reckon the inflammatory properties of animal protein are negligible?

I'm not interested in longevity, just recovery, performance, daily life etc.

The ethical component of it all has always been on my mind and is honestly my biggest issue with animal products, so I've been considering for a while to go at least vegetarian, but never did in the end. Too selfish after all I suppose.


----------



## ElChapo

TDXB said:


> Thanks man.
> watched "The Gamechangers", "What the Health" and "Forks over Knives" last night, made me think.
> 
> so you reckon the inflammatory properties of animal protein are negligible?
> 
> I'm not interested in longevity, just recovery, performance, daily life etc.
> 
> The ethical component of it all has always been on my mind and is honestly my biggest issue with animal products, so I've been considering for a while to go at least vegetarian, but never did in the end. Too selfish after all I suppose.


 Look at it this way, we evolved eating animal protein. We have done fine and lived long/healthy lives before the vegan movement became a thing.

If you care about recovery/performance/well-being then vegan is not conducive to that without supplementing extra protein, iron/zinc, B vitamins, Creatine, etc. If that doesn't tell you how unnatural it is. At least as a vegetarian you can partake in eggs and dairy products which are extremely nutrient dense.

There is zero inherent benefit to your performance/health/well-being with a vegan diet.

I love animals too, i am speaking strictly from a physiological and sports performance angle. At the end of the day if you and me and go vegan, it will make 0% difference to animal welfare. That's something that needs to be tackled through policy.

Hopefully in the future, we can grow meat in the lab, it would be identical to animal meat without the hormones/pesticides/etc. By the time we will likely be able to grow humans organs like livers and kidneys as well.


----------



## Kingkong13

ElChapo said:


> Look at it this way, we evolved eating animal protein. We have done fine and lived long/healthy lives before the vegan movement became a thing.
> 
> If you care about recovery/performance/well-being then vegan is not conducive to that without supplementing extra protein, iron/zinc, B vitamins, Creatine, etc. If that doesn't tell you how unnatural it is. At least as a vegetarian you can partake in eggs and dairy products which are extremely nutrient dense.
> 
> There is zero inherent benefit to your performance/health/well-being with a vegan diet.
> 
> I love animals too, i am speaking strictly from a physiological and sports performance angle. At the end of the day if you and me and go vegan, it will make 0% difference to animal welfare. That's something that needs to be tackled through policy.
> 
> Hopefully in the future, we can grow meat in the lab, it would be identical to animal meat without the hormones/pesticides/etc. By the time we will likely be able to grow humans organs like livers and kidneys as well.


 Hi Elchapo,

I too have watched the documentary (The game changer)and was very drawn in by it, maybe not to turn fully vegan, but to cut down heavily on animal protein.

Is what they say nonsense then? What do they benefit for being so pro Vegan and anti animal produce?

They had a few (scientists) athletes and celebrities promoting the massive health benefits of it?

is it really propaganda?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Still to early to tell on all this stuff. longevity has an extremely strong genetic component to it. For instance the FOX gene which is found in people who live to 100. Of course lifestyle place a significant part as well.
> 
> Generally, your best bet is to stay fit and strong into your senior years, don't smoke, if you drink do it in moderation, stay connected with friends and family. Of course, controlling hypertension and other health markers is important too and remember, quality of life should be prioritized over pure life extension. Sometimes death is a kindness if your condition is bad enough.
> 
> You can see if you have the FOX longevity gene with 23andme and running your raw data file through promethease.com.


 Good points.

Don't quote me on this but I believe having read that HGH activates the fox gene.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick also said that sauna activates the gene.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

swole troll said:


> this is an excellent quote ^
> 
> I've always said you're worried about tupperware leaking chemicals into your food or the 'harmful' effects of aspartame yet will gladly slog back pints of beer on the weekend and live in a polluted city...
> 
> if life extension is ALL that you care about go and live in a field free from pollution and eat organic home grown vegetables and consume fresh water from natural springs
> 
> no?.. that'd be boring and lacking the things you enjoy in life?
> well then it's proof even to yourself that balance is key and you should weigh your own risk vs reward to eating a few pieces of pizza, drinking a little alcohol at a celebration, taking PEDs to achieve your goals vs eating pizza every day, getting hammered every weekend and blasting tren year round
> 
> It's like people get so tunnel visioned on longevity when it's all about balance, the two options arn't simply eat pizza every single day or not at all or blast PEDs year round or not at all, find the balance that you feel is worth the risk and enjoy your time whilst 'trying' to maximize it.


 Well put sir!


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@El Chapo a friend of mine have had carpal tunnel syndrom (wrist/fingers) for six months now.

I got him on meriva curcumin. He is also doing exercises/stretches from a physio therapist and is avoiding computers/other stuff that aggravates it.

It does not seem to fix itself tho.. any advice?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo do you believe that high androgen levels over prolonged periods of time affect the facial structure? (Jaw line, bones etc)

When women take anabolics their faces become hugely masculine and defined obviously due to the fact that they are so sensitive to androgens, however if a man is taking 10/20x his natural levels of androgens would this not affect his face too?

it seems that a lot of guys who have been blasting for years and stay lean seem to have good facial aesthetics. (I know a lot of it is due to being sub 10% bodyfat as I'm sure this helps)

also does HGH use over years cause the same effect? Seems to me that the late teenagers and men who use a lot of hormones seem to have good facial structures.


----------



## ElChapo

Kingkong13 said:


> Hi Elchapo,
> 
> I too have watched the documentary (The game changer)and was very drawn in by it, maybe not to turn fully vegan, but to cut down heavily on animal protein.
> 
> Is what they say nonsense then? What do they benefit for being so pro Vegan and anti animal produce?
> 
> They had a few (scientists) athletes and celebrities promoting the massive health benefits of it?
> 
> is it really propaganda?


 It's propaganda, see my last post for my thoughts on vegan/vegetarian and a regular balanced diet with both plant based+animal based food.

The way i see it, Being vegan is seen as a "sissy" thing. This documentary took a bunch of "manly" men like athletes and fighters to promote the vegan movement and make it more palatable to "manly" men like bodybuilders and athletes. It's very clever but it's bullshit.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Good points.
> 
> Don't quote me on this but I believe having read that HGH activates the fox gene.
> 
> Dr. Rhonda Patrick also said that sauna activates the gene.


 I don't think so. HGH does not extend life.

There are two ways of looking at "anti-aging".

1. Life extension ( Longer life)

2. Life enhancement ( better skin, body composition, libido, energy/well-being)

They are both completely different things. Some thing like TRT+HGH would fall into category #2 of "anti-aging". They do not extend your lifespan but they make you feel and perform as a younger, more virile person would.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @El Chapo a friend of mine have had carpal tunnel syndrom (wrist/fingers) for six months now.
> 
> I got him on meriva curcumin. He is also doing exercises/stretches from a physio therapist and is avoiding computers/other stuff that aggravates it.
> 
> It does not seem to fix itself tho.. any advice?


 Is it bilateral or only one side? if one side, which side is it? This is important and helps rule out one thing over the other.

Can he pinpoint anything that might have set it off , like using a mouse/computer? Or any new medications/hormones he may have started around that time?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo do you believe that high androgen levels over prolonged periods of time affect the facial structure? (Jaw line, bones etc)
> 
> When women take anabolics their faces become hugely masculine and defined obviously due to the fact that they are so sensitive to androgens, however if a man is taking 10/20x his natural levels of androgens would this not affect his face too?
> 
> it seems that a lot of guys who have been blasting for years and stay lean seem to have good facial aesthetics. (I know a lot of it is due to being sub 10% bodyfat as I'm sure this helps)
> 
> also does HGH use over years cause the same effect? Seems to me that the late teenagers and men who use a lot of hormones seem to have good facial structures.


 Only if used during adolescence or early 20s usually. It can happen later in life as you see in female bodybuilders who take very high doses, but they also use HGH a lot of the time which can increase this effect.

Facial structure is highly genetic and also affected by prenatal testosterone levels when you are in the womb.

It does not always happen, it depends on various factors like genetics, prenatal testosterone levels and if growth plates are sealed, etc.

Being very lean can make most men look more masculine due jawline and cheekbones portruding more. Some guys have very feminine faces or have big jowls/small cheekbones/jaw so even getting lean doesn't make a difference for them. We are all different.

HGH does seem to alter the structure in some people even as adults, although if you search up "acromegaly" people who have very high HGH, they don't look very masculine, more "ogre" like appearance and they tend to have an underbite jaw structure.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo I'd really appreciate your insight on the optimal training for hypertrophy.

I know you like reverse pyramid sets and I think you recommend to train each body part at least twice a week but I'm wondering what you prefer for amount of working sets and time under tension?

I've read that for hypertrophy it's best for each set to last around 40 secs but I'm usually under that.

Tried today to make each working set last that long and my strength quickly went down as I progressed to each exercise meaning I was lifting less weight than usual.

I know progressive overload is key so would I be hindering myself due to having less strength for each exercise, therefore lifting less weight than previous weeks or would the accumulation of longer time under tension make up for this?

Hope that makes sense, appreciate any help and tips

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo I'd really appreciate your insight on the optimal training for hypertrophy.
> 
> I know you like reverse pyramid sets and I think you recommend to train each body part at least twice a week but I'm wondering what you prefer for amount of working sets and time under tension?
> 
> I've read that for hypertrophy it's best for each set to last around 40 secs but I'm usually under that.
> 
> Tried today to make each working set last that long and my strength quickly went down as I progressed to each exercise meaning I was lifting less weight than usual.
> 
> I know progressive overload is key so would I be hindering myself due to having less strength for each exercise, therefore lifting less weight than previous weeks or would the accumulation of longer time under tension make up for this?
> 
> Hope that makes sense, appreciate any help and tips
> 
> Thanks


 It depends, you can get away with a huge variety of sets/rep ranges. As you said, as long as you get progressive overload, you will grow. Extra volume for isolation exercise will increase hypertrophy as long as you incorporate sufficient recovery periods. If your high volume/high rep movements start to interfere with progressive overload, you will see a decrease in good results.

Too many guys are just pumping up with tons of volume and not enough focus on progressive overload/calories/recovery which are the pillars of bodybuilding/powerlifting. With good genetics and/or AAS some guys get away with this style of training and teach it to others who get subpar results without the genetics and/or AAS.

For something like the strength/compound exercise component, you can hit 2-3 hard sets of squat/bench/deadlift and add 2-4 sets of isolation movements like biceps/quads/shoulders etc. You can mix and match volume/strength sets & reps, you see tons of successful bodybuilders using all kinds of different routines and getting great results.

The best approach is a combo of strength focused compound movements (squats/bench/deads) and high volume/high rep isolation movements like bicep curls, lateral raises, pec flies, etc. You can combine these on the same day or week, or even do periodization with a few months of pure strength based training and taking a break from that, doing a few months of isolation/volume style training. It all works, as long as the fundamentals are there. You've seen all time greats/legends use this such as Franco Columbu/Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Tom Platz.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> It depends, you can get away with a huge variety of sets/rep ranges. As you said, as long as you get progressive overload, you will grow. Extra volume for isolation exercise will increase hypertrophy as long as you incorporate sufficient recovery periods. If your high volume/high rep movements start to interfere with progressive overload, you will see a decrease in good results.
> 
> Too many guys are just pumping up with tons of volume and not enough focus on progressive overload/calories/recovery which are the pillars of bodybuilding/powerlifting. With good genetics and/or AAS some guys get away with this style of training and teach it to others who get subpar results without the genetics and/or AAS.
> 
> For something like the strength/compound exercise component, you can hit 2-3 hard sets of squat/bench/deadlift and add 2-4 sets of isolation movements like biceps/quads/shoulders etc. You can mix and match volume/strength sets & reps, you see tons of successful bodybuilders using all kinds of different routines and getting great results.
> 
> The best approach is a combo of strength focused compound movements (squats/bench/deads) and high volume/high rep isolation movements like bicep curls, lateral raises, pec flies, etc. You can combine these on the same day or week, or even do periodization with a few months of pure strength based training and taking a break from that, doing a few months of isolation/volume style training. It all works, as long as the fundamentals are there. You've seen all time greats/legends use this such as Franco Columbu/Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Tom Platz.


 Brilliant thanks, really appreciate the detailed post


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> It depends, you can get away with a huge variety of sets/rep ranges. As you said, as long as you get progressive overload, you will grow. Extra volume for isolation exercise will increase hypertrophy as long as you incorporate sufficient recovery periods. If your high volume/high rep movements start to interfere with progressive overload, you will see a decrease in good results.
> 
> Too many guys are just pumping up with tons of volume and not enough focus on progressive overload/calories/recovery which are the pillars of bodybuilding/powerlifting. With good genetics and/or AAS some guys get away with this style of training and teach it to others who get subpar results without the genetics and/or AAS.
> 
> For something like the strength/compound exercise component, you can hit 2-3 hard sets of squat/bench/deadlift and add 2-4 sets of isolation movements like biceps/quads/shoulders etc. You can mix and match volume/strength sets & reps, you see tons of successful bodybuilders using all kinds of different routines and getting great results.
> 
> The best approach is a combo of strength focused compound movements (squats/bench/deads) and high volume/high rep isolation movements like bicep curls, lateral raises, pec flies, etc. You can combine these on the same day or week, or even do periodization with a few months of pure strength based training and taking a break from that, doing a few months of isolation/volume style training. It all works, as long as the fundamentals are there. You've seen all time greats/legends use this such as Franco Columbu/Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Tom Platz.


 I think most ask "what is sufficient to stimulate growth" and also can you take it too far.

Example for me earlier when I did chest.

Hammer press 20kg each side 20 reps, 49kg each side 15 reps, 60jg each side 12 reps 8 reps 8 reps then into a drop back to 40kg each side to failure (16 reps)

Smith machine incline. Two plates each side 12,12,10,8

Cabke crossover, 3 sets of 15, 1 set of 25

Now for me shortly I'll be back to four plates a side for hammer press (I'm still pacing myself after rotator issues lasting over a year so glad to be pain free) however when I look at the above I don't think it's enough?

Next week would be much the same with 2.5kg added to either side and I'd maybe swap incline for dumbbells etc but it doesn't quite make me feel as "worked out" as when I used to bench heavy which was 60x15, 90x15, 120kg x8, 150kg x6, 160kg x2, 120kg x12, 100kg x15..... Then I'd add fkyes or incline similar to above.

Just wondering on your thoughts.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I think most ask "what is sufficient to stimulate growth" and also can you take it too far.
> 
> Example for me earlier when I did chest.
> 
> Hammer press 20kg each side 20 reps, 49kg each side 15 reps, 60jg each side 12 reps 8 reps 8 reps then into a drop back to 40kg each side to failure (16 reps)
> 
> Smith machine incline. Two plates each side 12,12,10,8
> 
> Cabke crossover, 3 sets of 15, 1 set of 25
> 
> Now for me shortly I'll be back to four plates a side for hammer press (I'm still pacing myself after rotator issues lasting over a year so glad to be pain free) however when I look at the above I don't think it's enough?
> 
> Next week would be much the same with 2.5kg added to either side and I'd maybe swap incline for dumbbells etc but it doesn't quite make me feel as "worked out" as when I used to bench heavy which was 60x15, 90x15, 120kg x8, 150kg x6, 160kg x2, 120kg x12, 100kg x15..... Then I'd add fkyes or incline similar to above.
> 
> Just wondering on your thoughts.


 Sufficient : Are your reps/weight increasing ?

Too far : Your weights/reps are plateauing or getting worse. Too much training ; Progressive overload stops/risk of injury increases.

Finding that sweet spot is up to you. I like at least one day between muscle groups and if i am hitting very heavy bench/squat/deadlift, it can take 7 days for full recovery before i do it again. Lower weight/higher volume isolation movements take much less time to recover from.

You should always be hunting for more weight/more reps. Put everything you have into reaching new heights/surpassing your limits every workout. Don't go to the gym and just lift. You must consciously strive to improve while maintaining as good form as you can. You eat enough calories, enough recovery in between, and you will grow. Remember growth ONLY happens during rest/recovery. You cannot grow without rest/recovery.


----------



## Jaling

@ElChapo

my main owl is gaining massive strength - I know this won't come overnight and appreciate that.

i do like the mass I get from AAS use and also encourage it. But never push for that as hard as I'm pushing to get stronger.

my current routine is this.

Monday -

squats 5x 5.

Deadlift variation normally unilateral based 4 x 6-8 reps

single leg press 4x 10

Renegade rows 4 x 10.

Wednesday -

DB bench press 5x 6

DB bench press 2x 10

Chin ups 4x 10 ( also thinking now to change this weekly to doing 5x 5 with weight )

cable flyes, rear felt flyes super set 4x 10-20

DB shrugs 4x 10.

Friday -

Deadlifts 3x 5

bulgarian split squat 4x 10

leg press, straight leg DL super sets 4x 10.

going to keep adding weight till I hit a plateau, then change this to 3sets of 3 with obviously higher weights.

I currently rest for 3 minutes between these sets. Would/should I increase rest between sets when I have to go down to 3x 3.

if you have any input or better advice let me know please.

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> my main owl is gaining massive strength - I know this won't come overnight and appreciate that.
> 
> i do like the mass I get from AAS use and also encourage it. But never push for that as hard as I'm pushing to get stronger.
> 
> my current routine is this.
> 
> Monday -
> 
> squats 5x 5.
> 
> Deadlift variation normally unilateral based 4 x 6-8 reps
> 
> single leg press 4x 10
> 
> Renegade rows 4 x 10.
> 
> Wednesday -
> 
> DB bench press 5x 6
> 
> DB bench press 2x 10
> 
> Chin ups 4x 10 ( also thinking now to change this weekly to doing 5x 5 with weight )
> 
> cable flyes, rear felt flyes super set 4x 10-20
> 
> DB shrugs 4x 10.
> 
> Friday -
> 
> Deadlifts 3x 5
> 
> bulgarian split squat 4x 10
> 
> leg press, straight leg DL super sets 4x 10.
> 
> going to keep adding weight till I hit a plateau, then change this to 3sets of 3 with obviously higher weights.
> 
> I currently rest for 3 minutes between these sets. Would/should I increase rest between sets when I have to go down to 3x 3.
> 
> if you have any input or better advice let me know please.
> 
> thanks


 Way too much volume for strength. Those sets of leg press are not going to help your squat. Less volume/higher intensity for strength gains. Once you build the strength you want, you can turn the dial back up for volume, but right now it's really going to hold you back.

For Monday, Cut the squats down to 3 sets. Leg press down to 3 sets max. Cut deadlifts out completely. If i were you Monday: 3 x 5 squat or 3 x RPT, Quad extension/Hamstring curls 2 sets of each. No deadlifts/No rows.

Wednesday: 3 sets of BARBELL bench press. Form is essential to build strength and no plateau on bench press. It's the most technical lift of the big 3 contrary to popular belief. 1. Plant your feet with a strong base pushing into the ground. 2. Retract your scapula (pin shoulder blades back) this protects your shoulders and helps you use more chest muscle. 3. Touch your chest with the bar and explode towards your face/eyes. We call this "Bar Path" and it separates the amateur benchers from the elite. Squeeze the bar as hard as you can when pushing it up. This helps activate the muscles further and helps a lot with pushing heavier weights. I would do something like : 3 sets barbell bench press, 3 sets face pulls or rows (cables are fine/ this protects you from shoulder issues/impingement), you can throw in pec flies/pec deck for isolation 2-3 sets.

Friday: Deadlift 3 x 5 or 3 x RPT (Reverse pyramid), take out the bulgarian split squats completely (this is for girls and magazine covers), you can throw in your WEIGHTED chin ups in here, progressive overload applies, add weight+reps as often as you can with good form/good ROM. 3 x 5 or 3 x 5 RPT does the job, the extra 2 sets in 5 x 5 just waste energy/recovery. Throw in ab training into this day too, strong abs protect your back, weak abs make your back work too hard and can lead to injury.

ALWAYS rest a full 5 minutes between your strength based/compound lifts. It takes 5 minutes for full CNS and metabolic recovery, studies show that 5 minutes is superior to 3 minutes for building strength and i've experience the same. You can use the time you saved by dropping those extra sets and movements to rest/recover more between your sets.

To sum it up : Cut back volume if your focus is strength, throw it back in once you reached desired strength levels and want more mass. Rest for 5 minutes instead of 3 minutes. Learn about Reverse pyramid training, it's amazing.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> my main owl is gaining massive strength - I know this won't come overnight and appreciate that.
> 
> i do like the mass I get from AAS use and also encourage it. But never push for that as hard as I'm pushing to get stronger.
> 
> my current routine is this.
> 
> Monday -
> 
> squats 5x 5.
> 
> Deadlift variation normally unilateral based 4 x 6-8 reps
> 
> single leg press 4x 10
> 
> Renegade rows 4 x 10.
> 
> Wednesday -
> 
> DB bench press 5x 6
> 
> DB bench press 2x 10
> 
> Chin ups 4x 10 ( also thinking now to change this weekly to doing 5x 5 with weight )
> 
> cable flyes, rear felt flyes super set 4x 10-20
> 
> DB shrugs 4x 10.
> 
> Friday -
> 
> Deadlifts 3x 5
> 
> bulgarian split squat 4x 10
> 
> leg press, straight leg DL super sets 4x 10.
> 
> going to keep adding weight till I hit a plateau, then change this to 3sets of 3 with obviously higher weights.
> 
> I currently rest for 3 minutes between these sets. Would/should I increase rest between sets when I have to go down to 3x 3.
> 
> if you have any input or better advice let me know please.
> 
> thanks


 If you want an idea of where you rank and to give yourself goals to aim for :

https://strengthlevel.com/

If you want to get depressed :

http://symmetricstrength.com/ (This calculator is extremely harsh, standards are extremely high)


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> Way too much volume for strength. Those sets of leg press are not going to help your squat. Less volume/higher intensity for strength gains. Once you build the strength you want, you can turn the dial back up for volume, but right now it's really going to hold you back.
> 
> For Monday, Cut the squats down to 3 sets. Leg press down to 3 sets max. Cut deadlifts out completely. If i were you Monday: 3 x 5 squat or 3 x RPT, Quad extension/Hamstring curls 2 sets of each. No deadlifts/No rows.
> 
> Wednesday: 3 sets of BARBELL bench press. Form is essential to build strength and no plateau on bench press. It's the most technical lift of the big 3 contrary to popular belief. 1. Plant your feet with a strong base pushing into the ground. 2. Retract your scapula (pin shoulder blades back) this protects your shoulders and helps you use more chest muscle. 3. Touch your chest with the bar and explode towards your face/eyes. We call this "Bar Path" and it separates the amateur benchers from the elite. Squeeze the bar as hard as you can when pushing it up. This helps activate the muscles further and helps a lot with pushing heavier weights. I would do something like : 3 sets barbell bench press, 3 sets face pulls or rows (cables are fine/ this protects you from shoulder issues/impingement), you can throw in pec flies/pec deck for isolation 2-3 sets.
> 
> Friday: Deadlift 3 x 5 or 3 x RPT (Reverse pyramid), take out the bulgarian split squats completely (this is for girls and magazine covers), you can throw in your WEIGHTED chin ups in here, progressive overload applies, add weight+reps as often as you can with good form/good ROM. 3 x 5 or 3 x 5 RPT does the job, the extra 2 sets in 5 x 5 just waste energy/recovery. Throw in ab training into this day too, strong abs protect your back, weak abs make your back work too hard and can lead to injury.
> 
> ALWAYS rest a full 5 minutes between your strength based/compound lifts. It takes 5 minutes for full CNS and metabolic recovery, studies show that 5 minutes is superior to 3 minutes for building strength and i've experience the same. You can use the time you saved by dropping those extra sets and movements to rest/recover more between your sets.


 Thanks man! I did wonder why m strength hasn't increased as much. Will be changing to this. I'll update my progress.


----------



## kruz

Hi, first off what a great read this thread is. I'm on page 68 and promised myself I wouldn't ask a question until I've read the whole thing but this query has just come up and I'm pretty sure it won't have been covered.

My girlfriend has just had a hormone panel, see attached. Her test and estrogen is super low! Any suggestions? She is fit and healthy, lifts 3 times a week, eats well, sex drive is ok but not great, she's 39.

Could she use a really low dose of testosterone to get both of these figures back up to a more normal range?

Any help would be great.

Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> Thanks man! I did wonder why m strength hasn't increased as much. Will be changing to this. I'll update my progress.


 Please do, i love to hear good results which i can share with others and like to hear progress stories.

I know a thing or two about getting very very strong, so you asked the right guy.


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> Hi, first off what a great read this thread is. I'm on page 68 and promised myself I wouldn't ask a question until I've read the whole thing but this query has just come up and I'm pretty sure it won't have been covered.
> 
> My girlfriend has just had a hormone panel, see attached. Her test and estrogen is super low! Any suggestions? She is fit and healthy, lifts 3 times a week, eats well, sex drive is ok but not great, she's 39.
> 
> Could she use a really low dose of testosterone to get both of these figures back up to a more normal range?
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> View attachment 176841


 1. Do you know what part of her cycle these labs were drawn? When did she have her period? Estrogen/progesterone/testosterone can spike very high and go very low depending on the part of the cycle. (luteal phase/ovulation/etc)

2. Or is she on birth control and/or SSRIs or antidepressant/antianxiety/antipsychotic medications?

3. Thyroid is also sluggish. Is she having any symptoms you are concerned about? (Fatigue/libido/etc)

Is she on depo provera? She hasn't had hysterectomy i would assume, her estradiol and testosterone are undetectable. Depo provera can do this.


----------



## kruz

ElChapo said:


> 1. Do you know what part of her cycle these labs were drawn? When did she have her period? Estrogen/progesterone/testosterone can spike very high and go very low depending on the part of the cycle. (luteal phase/ovulation/etc)
> 
> 2. Or is she on birth control and/or SSRIs or antidepressant/antianxiety/antipsychotic medications?
> 
> 3. Thyroid is also sluggish. Is she having any symptoms you are concerned about? (Fatigue/libido/etc)
> 
> Is she on depo provera? She hasn't had hysterectomy i would assume, her estradiol and testosterone are undetectable. Depo provera can do this.


 Hi, thanks ElChapo,

1) it was on day 3 of her cycle if I remember correctly. As in she started her period then 3 days later bloods were drawn.

2)She isn't on any of those medications although she was previously on the birth control pill for years and years. Best guess would be about 25 years. Hasn't been on them for about 3-5 years.

3)Yes, fatigue and libido are not what they should be. She is always tired.

No histerectamy either.


----------



## Djibril

Speaking about women hormones. When is the best time to take the blood test? A few days after their cycle?

My wife's feeling very tired and ill make her do an hormonal panel. For a start are the above sufficient ? TT, E2, shbg, prolactin and thyroid panel or is there any other test she should have


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> Hi, thanks ElChapo,
> 
> 1) it was on day 3 of her cycle if I remember correctly. As in she started her period then 3 days later bloods were drawn.
> 
> 2)She isn't on any of those medications although she was previously on the birth control pill for years and years. Best guess would be about 25 years. Hasn't been on them for about 3-5 years.
> 
> 3)Yes, fatigue and libido are not what they should be. She is always tired.
> 
> No histerectamy either.


 Great data, you guys did good tracking her cycle and time of blood draw.

The next step, re-test these same labs at 14 days after the period. This will be close to her peak levels for all the hormones. If you want a general idea of the ranges you want to see:

https://thehormonecurebook.com/downloads/bonus-lab-ranges.pdf

http://unitslab.com/node/113 conversion calculator for Estradiol, you can google for testosterone+progesterone too.

It's likely she will need at least testosterone replacement therapy. (10-20 mg per week is the usual dose, target testosterone levels of 70-150 ng/dL). This will strongly increase libido, energy, and well-being. We need to re-check her numbers at the peak to see how bad they really are.

Birth control can have permanent negative effects on women's hormones. How long was she on the birth control pill? What pill was she on? The good thing is you are here and there is a solution to these issues, so we will get her optimized soon.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Speaking about women hormones. When is the best time to take the blood test? A few days after their cycle?
> 
> My wife's feeling very tired and ill make her do an hormonal panel. For a start are the above sufficient ? TT, E2, shbg, prolactin and thyroid panel or is there any other test she should have


 14 days after the period/menstruation. This when most of the hormones reach close to their highest levels.

Total testosterone, Estradiol, progesterone, TSH/Free T4/Free T3, Vitamin D (This is also a steroid hormone too)

Bonus: DHEA and IGF-1 ( these are good to look at at least once or every few years)

Leave out SHBG/Prolactin for now.

Also give me a medical/social history, sleep, diet, stress, activity levels, birth control/anti-depressant/anti-anxiety/psych medications, etc.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> 14 days after the period/menstruation. This when most of the hormones reach close to their highest levels.
> 
> Total testosterone, Estradiol, progesterone, TSH/Free T4/Free T3, Vitamin D (This is also a steroid hormone too)
> 
> Bonus: DHEA and IGF-1 ( these are good to look at at least once or every few years)
> 
> Leave out SHBG/Prolactin for now.
> 
> Also give me a medical/social history, sleep, diet, stress, activity levels, birth control/anti-depressant/anti-anxiety/psych medications, etc.


 Perfect thank you very much.

Sorry for the stupidity of the question, the days start counting after the end of the period or since day 1?

by Dhea, the correct one is DHEA-S right?

her Vit D im completely sure is totally low like mine

I will give you everything once i get her results, she always slept a lot though last year it has been more difficult with a baby, no alcohol, no drugs, no smoke, no birth control pills or any other medication. Only meds she took a lot is ibuprofen in the days of her period because the pain is insane.

Diet could be better but she is lean


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Perfect thank you very much.
> 
> Sorry for the stupidity of the question, the days start counting after the end of the period or since day 1?
> 
> by Dhea, the correct one is DHEA-S right?
> 
> her Vit D im completely sure is totally low like mine
> 
> I will give you everything once i get her results, she always slept a lot though last year it has been more difficult with a baby, no alcohol, no drugs, no smoke, no birth control pills or any other medication. Only meds she took a lot is ibuprofen in the days of her period because the pain is insane.
> 
> Diet could be better but she is lean


 There are no stupid questions.

Count the day of the period as day 1.

Yes, DHEA-S is our surrogate marker for DHEA.

You MUST get yours/hers vitamin D to optimal levels. It's not only for bone health but immune health, skin/muscle, brain/depression etc. Vitamin D is extremely important. Guys/Girls in the East coast USA or the UK are usually deficient. Start taking 5,000 IU every day of D3 not D2. Take it with dinner or a fatty meal for optimal absorption. Higher Vitamin D is linked to better mood, cancer protection, stronger immune system, and many other health benefits. Target levels: 40-70 ng/mL

For optimal health/well-being, make sure carbs are at least moderate. Low carb = bad.


----------



## kruz

ElChapo said:


> Great data, you guys did good tracking her cycle and time of blood draw.
> 
> The next step, re-test these same labs at 14 days after the period. This will be close to her peak levels for all the hormones. If you want a general idea of the ranges you want to see:
> 
> https://thehormonecurebook.com/downloads/bonus-lab-ranges.pdf
> 
> http://unitslab.com/node/113 conversion calculator for Estradiol, you can google for testosterone+progesterone too.
> 
> It's likely she will need at least testosterone replacement therapy. (10-20 mg per week is the usual dose, target testosterone levels of 70-150 ng/dL). This will strongly increase libido, energy, and well-being. We need to re-check her numbers at the peak to see how bad they really are.
> 
> Birth control can have permanent negative effects on women's hormones. How long was she on the birth control pill? What pill was she on? The good thing is you are here and there is a solution to these issues, so we will get her optimized soon.


 This is amazing, thanks so much.

She was on logynon from age 16- 35.

I assume the re-test day is just before ovulation?

She is currently on a cut as we go to Australia in about 8 weeks. Is there any harm in introducing 10-20mg test week now to aid in this and also test the waters?


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Way too much volume for strength. Those sets of leg press are not going to help your squat. Less volume/higher intensity for strength gains. Once you build the strength you want, you can turn the dial back up for volume, but right now it's really going to hold you back.
> 
> For Monday, Cut the squats down to 3 sets. Leg press down to 3 sets max. Cut deadlifts out completely. If i were you Monday: 3 x 5 squat or 3 x RPT, Quad extension/Hamstring curls 2 sets of each. No deadlifts/No rows.
> 
> Wednesday: 3 sets of BARBELL bench press. Form is essential to build strength and no plateau on bench press. It's the most technical lift of the big 3 contrary to popular belief. 1. Plant your feet with a strong base pushing into the ground. 2. Retract your scapula (pin shoulder blades back) this protects your shoulders and helps you use more chest muscle. 3. Touch your chest with the bar and explode towards your face/eyes. We call this "Bar Path" and it separates the amateur benchers from the elite. Squeeze the bar as hard as you can when pushing it up. This helps activate the muscles further and helps a lot with pushing heavier weights. I would do something like : 3 sets barbell bench press, 3 sets face pulls or rows (cables are fine/ this protects you from shoulder issues/impingement), you can throw in pec flies/pec deck for isolation 2-3 sets.
> 
> Friday: Deadlift 3 x 5 or 3 x RPT (Reverse pyramid), take out the bulgarian split squats completely (this is for girls and magazine covers), you can throw in your WEIGHTED chin ups in here, progressive overload applies, add weight+reps as often as you can with good form/good ROM. 3 x 5 or 3 x 5 RPT does the job, the extra 2 sets in 5 x 5 just waste energy/recovery. Throw in ab training into this day too, strong abs protect your back, weak abs make your back work too hard and can lead to injury.
> 
> ALWAYS rest a full 5 minutes between your strength based/compound lifts. It takes 5 minutes for full CNS and metabolic recovery, studies show that 5 minutes is superior to 3 minutes for building strength and i've experience the same. You can use the time you saved by dropping those extra sets and movements to rest/recover more between your sets.
> 
> To sum it up : Cut back volume if your focus is strength, throw it back in once you reached desired strength levels and want more mass. Rest for 5 minutes instead of 3 minutes. Learn about Reverse pyramid training, it's amazing.


 out of interest, can you advise the sets and reps you would do for the same routine above but instead for muscle hypertrophy?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> out of interest, can you advise the sets and reps you would do for the same routine above but instead for muscle hypertrophy?


 Personally, i would follow a similar routine and just add extra sets of higher volume/isolation movements.

For instance: Barbell bench press + Pec dec or pec flies. Weighted chin ups+bicep db curls for biceps, Barbell squats+quads extension+ham curls for legs, etc. That's my style of training. You could also alternate a few months of pure strength/powerlifting style and then a few months of pure bodybuilding/volume training. You can also have heavy days and light/high volume days.

It all works as long as you follow the fundamentals, i like to combine them into the same day myself. I like reverse pyramid training because you can hit all the rep ranges in the same workout. You get the best of both worlds.

Some of the biggest legends used both powerlifting/strength training + high volume/isolation ( Dorian Yates, Arnold, Franco, Coleman to name a few )


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Personally, i would follow a similar routine and just add extra sets of higher volume/isolation movements.
> 
> For instance: Barbell bench press + Pec dec or pec flies. Weighted chin ups+bicep db curls for biceps, Barbell squats+quads extension+ham curls for legs, etc. That's my style of training. You could also alternate a few months of pure strength/powerlifting style and then a few months of pure bodybuilding/volume training. You can also have heavy days and light/high volume days. It all works, i like to combine them into the same day myself.


 Yea my volume isnt to far off this however maybe a little more on chest/shoulder days which maybe i could cut back on.

what you are saying is that 90% of people incorporate far to much volume than is required to build muscle?


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> Personally, i would follow a similar routine and just add extra sets of higher volume/isolation movements.
> 
> For instance: Barbell bench press + Pec dec or pec flies. Weighted chin ups+bicep db curls for biceps, Barbell squats+quads extension+ham curls for legs, etc. That's my style of training. You could also alternate a few months of pure strength/powerlifting style and then a few months of pure bodybuilding/volume training. You can also have heavy days and light/high volume days.
> 
> It all works as long as you follow the fundamentals, i like to combine them into the same day myself. I like reverse pyramid training because you can hit all the rep ranges in the same workout. You get the best of both worlds.
> 
> Some of the biggest legends used both powerlifting/strength training + high volume/isolation ( Dorian Yates, Arnold, Franco, Coleman to name a few )


 Can you give an example of how you would set up your reverse pyramid session for bench (including warm up) and subsequent chest exercises please.

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> This is amazing, thanks so much.
> 
> She was on logynon from age 16- 35.
> 
> I assume the re-test day is just before ovulation?
> 
> She is currently on a cut as we go to Australia in about 8 weeks. Is there any harm in introducing 10-20mg test week now to aid in this and also test the waters?


 That's probably why her hormone levels are cooked. We need to get her Estradiol and testosterone up. The low E2 will lead to osteoperosis/high risk of fractures in the future if not treated soon. The testosterone will fix the libido problems for sure. It almost always works extremely well.

Just re-check at 14 days before we proceed with treatment. We want to confirm her levels at close to their peak but these are really bad already.

There is no harm in adding the testosterone now, i'd rather re-test at 14 days with no variables, but if i were you, impatient as i am, i would start the testosterone now between you and me. Her libido will be amazing by the time you guys go on vacation, as well as mood/confidence/etc. The time to feel testosterone is the same as it is for men. For people going the UGL route for female HRT, propionate has the least side effects but the standard medical practice is to use cypionate/enanthate. Risk of virilization is very very low with the 10-20 mg range.

You can keep a log to track how she feels once you start testosterone. You can do 10 mg x 2 per week of testosterone. Use an insulin syringe/needle for dosing/injection.

To give you an idea:

· Effects on *sexual interest *appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, no further increments beyond.

· Changes in *erections/ejaculations* may require up to 6 months.

· Effects on *quality of life* manifest within 3-4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer.

· Effects on *depressive mood* appear after 3-6 weeks with a maximum after 18-30 weeks.

· First effects on erythropoiesis (increased *red blood cells*) after 3 months, peaking at 9-12 months.

· *Prostate specific antigen and volume* rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase related to aging rather than therapy.

· Effects on *lipids *appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6-12 months.

. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3-12 months.

· Changes in *fat mass, lean body mass and muscle strength* occur within 12-16 weeks, stabilize at 6-12 months, but marginally continue to improve over years.

. Effects on *inflammation* occur within 3 to 12 weeks.

· Effects on *bone *detectable after 6 months but continue at least for 3 years.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Yea my volume isnt to far off this however maybe a little more on chest/shoulder days which maybe i could cut back on.
> 
> what you are saying is that 90% of people incorporate far to much volume than is required to build muscle?


 Far too much volume that impedes or recovery or high volume = low quality workouts.

I see guys at the gym training 2 hours barely breaking a sweat, zero actual effort into their lifts. Training with higher intensity but lower volume will go a longer way with getting good results.

High volume is useless if A. It leads to poor recovery/lack of progressive overload B. It's sub-par intensity/effort.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> Can you give an example of how you would set up your reverse pyramid session for bench (including warm up) and subsequent chest exercises please.
> 
> Thanks


 Yes

Warm up: 1st set 50% x 10 reps 2nd set 70 % x 5 reps 3rd set 90% x 1 reps (Of your first and heaviest real set) So if you are benching 315 lbs for 8 reps for your first set, then do 50/70/90% of 315 lbs for your warm up sets.

Reverse pyramid example for Bench press:

Set # 1 : 365 lbs x 5 reps

Set # 2: 315 lbs x 8 reps

Set # 3: 225 lbs x 15 reps

So your heaviest set is first, which makes sense because you are fresh/strongest at the beginning of your workout. Standard pyramid makes very little sense, since you exhaust your muscles before doing your heaviest set. Doing RPT, you get the heaviest set out of the way first, and those lighter sets feel extremely light after doing heavier weight first.

https://legionathletics.com/one-rep-max-calculator/ ( This is a great calculator for figuring out how many reps/sets you have in you )


----------



## GMme

rbduk said:


> Lol, wtf is all that. Taking bro science to the extreme !


 some c**t drawing pictures


----------



## Redsy

Hi elchapo

Am going to run a mild cycle for 12-16 weeks.,..am wanting quality lean muscle with as little water gain/fat/weight as possible.

Fancy trying DHB and Tren A.

Was thinking running DHB for 10-12, then stopping and using Tren A for last 4 weeks to cut down a little.

Test e/dhb - 250/250

Winny 50 per day 4 weeks

Test p/Tren A 200/200

I am complete test P convert but have test e to use up. Test p much better for less water gain.b

Am pretty lean, about 10% and don't want to end cycle much away from this or less if possible.

Am a cyclist mainly, I will be doing alot of cardio, running and cycling.....plus 4-5times in gym per week. Strength and core stuff.

Afterwards I will go back onto a low cruise TRT of 125mg test P.

Or do I do above but run Tren A FIRST then DHB?


----------



## kruz

ElChapo said:


> That's probably why her hormone levels are cooked. We need to get her Estradiol and testosterone up. The low E2 will lead to osteoperosis/high risk of fractures in the future if not treated soon. The testosterone will fix the libido problems for sure. It almost always works extremely well.
> 
> Just re-check at 14 days before we proceed with treatment. We want to confirm her levels at close to their peak but these are really bad already.
> 
> There is no harm in adding the testosterone now, i'd rather re-test at 14 days with no variables, but if i were you, impatient as i am, i would start the testosterone now between you and me. Her libido will be amazing by the time you guys go on vacation, as well as mood/confidence/etc. The time to feel testosterone is the same as it is for men. For people going the UGL route for female HRT, propionate has the least side effects but the standard medical practice is to use cypionate/enanthate. Risk of virilization is very very low with the 10-20 mg range.
> 
> You can keep a log to track how she feels once you start testosterone. You can do 10 mg x 2 per week of testosterone. Use an insulin syringe/needle for dosing/injection.
> 
> To give you an idea:
> 
> · Effects on *sexual interest *appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, no further increments beyond.
> 
> · Changes in *erections/ejaculations* may require up to 6 months.
> 
> · Effects on *quality of life* manifest within 3-4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer.
> 
> · Effects on *depressive mood* appear after 3-6 weeks with a maximum after 18-30 weeks.
> 
> · First effects on erythropoiesis (increased *red blood cells*) after 3 months, peaking at 9-12 months.
> 
> · *Prostate specific antigen and volume* rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase related to aging rather than therapy.
> 
> · Effects on *lipids *appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6-12 months.
> 
> . Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3-12 months.
> 
> · Changes in *fat mass, lean body mass and muscle strength* occur within 12-16 weeks, stabilize at 6-12 months, but marginally continue to improve over years.
> 
> . Effects on *inflammation* occur within 3 to 12 weeks.
> 
> · Effects on *bone *detectable after 6 months but continue at least for 3 years.


 Thanks so much for all this. She's keen to get things optimised asap. Once I showed her all this she was literally begging me to pin her with some of my test. Will do what you say and keep a log of all dosages and monitor mood, libido etc.

Thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Hi elchapo
> 
> Am going to run a mild cycle for 12-16 weeks.,..am wanting quality lean muscle with as little water gain/fat/weight as possible.
> 
> Fancy trying DHB and Tren A.
> 
> Was thinking running DHB for 10-12, then stopping and using Tren A for last 4 weeks to cut down a little.
> 
> Test e/dhb - 250/250
> 
> Winny 50 per day 4 weeks
> 
> Test p/Tren A 200/200
> 
> I am complete test P convert but have test e to use up. Test p much better for less water gain.b
> 
> Am pretty lean, about 10% and don't want to end cycle much away from this or less if possible.
> 
> Am a cyclist mainly, I will be doing alot of cardio, running and cycling.....plus 4-5times in gym per week. Strength and core stuff.
> 
> Afterwards I will go back onto a low cruise TRT of 125mg test P.
> 
> Or do I do above but run Tren A FIRST then DHB?


 Run the tren/DHB the whole time. 4 weeks of Tren A will not do anything. If you want lean/quality muscle, you need to run propionate to limit weight/water gains from enanthate.

If you want amazing results, run your winstrol/DHB/tren the whole 12-16 weeks and switch the testosterone to propionate, bump it up to 300 mg. Run NAC/TUDCA for liver protection.

If you want to stay lean, keep your surplus around 300 and no higher than 500. With all that cardio, you will need to eat a lot of food to grow.

EDIT: You can keep the test E since you want to use it up and the water will come off when you go back on prop, just don't confuse some of that weight gain for muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> Thanks so much for all this. She's keen to get things optimised asap. Once I showed her all this she was literally begging me to pin her with some of my test. Will do what you say and keep a log of all dosages and monitor mood, libido etc.
> 
> Thanks again


 Keep me posted, would love to hear your results.

Orgasm/climax strength and intensity usually sees a significant increase as well.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> Run the tren/DHB the whole time. 4 weeks of Tren A will not do anything. If you want lean/quality muscle, you need to run propionate to limit weight/water gains from enanthate.
> 
> If you want amazing results, run your winstrol/DHB/tren the whole 12-16 weeks and switch the testosterone to propionate, bump it up to 300 mg. Run NAC/TUDCA for liver protection.
> 
> If you want to stay lean, keep your surplus around 300 and no higher than 500. With all that cardio, you will need to eat a lot of food to grow.
> 
> EDIT: You can keep the test E since you want to use it up and the water will come off when you go back on prop, just don't confuse some of that weight gain for muscle.


 What doses do you recommend then taking into account weight gain concerns and goals. Want to keep cardio within reason though understand it will drop.

I've gained well from 250/300; test p/EQ. Or at least what I was happy with. Am only 75-80kg 5"10.

Test E/DHB/Tren A

250/250/200.

Or alternatively would I just be better running DHB alone for 12-16 wks?

Test E/DHB or similar doses?

300/300

Don't want to get ahead of myself if not required 3 compounds plus oral if not needed. I'll run winny for start.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo What is giving big GUT to bodybuilders? is it HGH? Insulin ? too much food (long term) ?

I know a young bodybuilder who took 1 year of HGH last year and his stomach got big like bodybuilders even thought he s very lean , and his jaw got way bigger .


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> What doses do you recommend then taking into account weight gain concerns and goals. Want to keep cardio within reason though understand it will drop.
> 
> I've gained well from 250/300; test p/EQ. Or at least what I was happy with. Am only 75-80kg 5"10.
> 
> Test E/DHB/Tren A
> 
> 250/250/200.
> 
> Or alternatively would I just be better running DHB alone for 12-16 wks?
> 
> Test E/DHB or similar doses?
> 
> 300/300
> 
> Don't want to get ahead of myself if not required 3 compounds plus oral if not needed. I'll run winny for start.


 If you care about cardio/weight gain, stick to propionate. A lot less water, why that happens nobody knows. It's one of those broscience things that's true.

Winstrol is the most popular AAS for athletes for a reason. You gain dry lean mass and tons of strength. It sucks water out of you too and can increase muscular endurance.

Low dose Test Prop+winstrol is the magic stack for athletics. It's a trade off regarding what dose you pick. Higher dose = more strength/muscle but less endurance/more weight gain.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo What is giving big GUT to bodybuilders? is it HGH? Insulin ? too much food (long term) ?
> 
> I know a young bodybuilder who took 1 year of HGH last year and his stomach got big like bodybuilders even thought he s very lean , and his jaw got way bigger .


 Likely both HGH causing organ/viscera growth as well as insulin increase visceral fat deposit. This is the prevailing theory in medical circles that are involved in the bodybuilding/AAS world.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> If you care about cardio/weight gain, stick to propionate. A lot less water, why that happens nobody knows. It's one of those broscience things that's true.
> 
> Winstrol is the most popular AAS for athletes for a reason. You gain dry lean mass and tons of strength. It sucks water out of you too and can increase muscular endurance.
> 
> Low dose Test Prop+winstrol is the magic stack for athletics. It's a trade off regarding what dose you pick. Higher dose = more strength/muscle but less endurance/more weight gain.


 @ElChapo Have you tried test phenyl prop? i want to switch from test enth but dont want to pin eod so was wondering if phenyl prop will be the same as prop in regards to holding less water?


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> 250 mg does the job with minimal/mild side effects, stack with EC to address fatigue/cravings or hunger and further enhance fat loss. Add some light cardio like walking. This works better than blasting more than 250 mg without adding the EC+cardio since you won't be dragging ass will be able to train, work, etc while burning a ton of calories rapidly.
> 
> Limiting the use to no longer than 8-12 weeks max at 250 mg is fairly safe. I've heard of some crazy people running it year round, that's when i would be concerned.


 Would you stack also a 20mg of GW and 2iu HGH before workout/cardio together with 250mg DNP?

Do you think that if someone is healing from a little surgery DNP will slow/hinder the healing process?


----------



## Djibril

Hello @ElChapo , i feel the need to thank you once again for all the information you share in this thread.

One training related question: What is your opinion on the training style of Mike Israetel, using volume landmarks, starting with the least volume possible or the said MEV Minimum effective volume and every week increasing the volume until you get into your MRV maximum recoverable volume, then deload for a week and start all over again with your MEV which may change as you progress.

Appart from the volume, in the beggining he works with lighter intensity and keeps more reps in reserve and as the weeks go by he go close to failure, going to total failure probably only in the last week before deloading.

On paper it sounds great, what is your take on it?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Have you tried test phenyl prop? i want to switch from test enth but dont want to pin eod so was wondering if phenyl prop will be the same as prop in regards to holding less water?


 No need to inject prop EOD, you can do Mon/Wed/Fri and even x 2 per week.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Would you stack also a 20mg of GW and 2iu HGH before workout/cardio together with 250mg DNP?
> 
> Do you think that if someone is healing from a little surgery DNP will slow/hinder the healing process?


 I would not cut during surgical recovery. You want at least maintenance if not surplus calories to improve healing time. When we lift and eat, we are repairing damaged muscle.

Keep it simple, Cardio+Deficit+DNP is enough already and you can add yohimbine or EC stack or clen to that as well.

HGH can help you stay strong and pumped during a cut and this will start working by week 2 but to start to see big changes in body composition can take 3-6 months.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo , i feel the need to thank you once again for all the information you share in this thread.
> 
> One training related question: What is your opinion on the training style of Mike Israetel, using volume landmarks, starting with the least volume possible or the said MEV Minimum effective volume and every week increasing the volume until you get into your MRV maximum recoverable volume, then deload for a week and start all over again with your MEV which may change as you progress.
> 
> Appart from the volume, in the beggining he works with lighter intensity and keeps more reps in reserve and as the weeks go by he go close to failure, going to total failure probably only in the last week before deloading.
> 
> On paper it sounds great, what is your take on it?


 This can probably work as long as you follow progressive overload, etc.

My thoughts: Vastly Over complicated and unnecessary, simple is almost always better. It lets you put all your focus into what matters, the fundamentals.

Any routine will work as long as you adhere to the three fundamentals 1. progressive overload 2. Calories in/out 3. rest/recovery


----------



## jj1996

Hey mate, was wanting to know your thoughts on next bulking cycle. Goal is to add as much muscle as fast as possible? First cycle was 500 Test E per week and second was 500 Test and 300 NPP. I would like to use tren in the next one. I'm unsure on the ratios and dose etc. Will 500 test and 200 Tren A cut it? Or can I take more and still put it to use?


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Hey mate, was wanting to know your thoughts on next bulking cycle. Goal is to add as much muscle as fast as possible? First cycle was 500 Test E per week and second was 500 Test and 300 NPP. I would like to use tren in the next one. I'm unsure on the ratios and dose etc. Will 500 test and 200 Tren A cut it? Or can I take more and still put it to use?


 Why not Test 500/NPP 500/Winstrol 50 mg or superdrol 20 mg?

Tren is overrated but i know why you want to try it, lots of mystique and legend behind it but many nasty side effects like gyno, mood swings, insomnia, indigestion and limp dick are common.

I would do 500 mg/500 mg Test/Tren and throw in 50 mg winstrol daily. You should explode with muscle and strength on this cycle, especially if you eat a surplus and train right. Run HCG if you plan on coming off with PCT or plan on having kids in the future.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Why not Test 500/NPP 500/Winstrol 50 mg or superdrol 20 mg?
> 
> Tren is overrated but i know why you want to try it, lots of mystique and legend behind it but many nasty side effects like gyno, mood swings, insomnia, indigestion and limp dick are common.
> 
> I would do 500 mg/500 mg Test/Tren and throw in 50 mg winstrol daily. You should explode with muscle and strength on this cycle, especially if you eat a surplus and train right. Run HCG if you plan on coming off with PCT or plan on having kids in the future.


 Cheers bud. I'm currently reading all the log and im only on page 125 haha..

Both my last cycles have been 20 weeks or so. Can i do the same with this cycle or would it way too harmful for my bloods?

I cruise anyway so that's no issue. Can i ask why you prefer the 500 Test/ 500 NPP cycle? Would this yield the same result as the tren cycle? (Seems to be your fav throughout the log?)


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Cheers bud. I'm currently reading all the log and im only on page 125 haha..
> 
> Both my last cycles have been 20 weeks or so. Can i do the same with this cycle or would it way too harmful for my bloods?
> 
> I cruise anyway so that's no issue. Can i ask why you prefer the 500 Test/ 500 NPP cycle? Would this yield the same result as the tren cycle? (Seems to be your fav throughout the log?)


 You can do 20 weeks, 16 weeks would be safer but still lead to significant results. You should definitely run TUDCA/NAC for liver protection. Make the most of this cycle, you will probably be blown away by the strength/muscle gains.

I would love to hear your results during and after this cycle if you run it.

It's not a bad idea to try the tren, NPP tends to be more mild from a side effect standpoint. If you are a strong responder to tren with minimal side effects, then it can be a good addition to your arsenal. Some people get average gains from tren but nasty sides, others get minimal sides and amazing results, you won't know until you try.

My favorite stack is test prop+winstrol for cut/bulk/athletic performance (Minimal water retention, great strength+energy, lean dry muscle gains, No side effects and very cheap/easy to source). I also love superdrol.

In your case, you want to try trenbolone, that's the stack i would run with your cycle experience and goals. (the 500/500 test/tren+winstrol 50 mg)

Get yourself these ancillaries for this cycle.

1. TUDCA/NAC at 250/1000 mg daily (very powerful liver protection)

2. Cialis (in case your dick gets soft from tren)

3. Raloxifene or Nolvadex enough to run 60 mg/20 mg for 12 weeks (If you develop gyno from tren)


----------



## Djibril

Im 1 month into TRT 160mgs and 1500 iu hcg weekly both split in two doses.

I will run a full panel in a month including thyroid hormones but wanted to check now wheres my e2 sitting.

Which are the most important at this point? I was thinking TT, FT, E2. SHBG


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Im 1 month into TRT 160mgs and 1500 iu hcg weekly both split in two doses.
> 
> I will run a full panel in a month including thyroid hormones but wanted to check now wheres my e2 sitting.
> 
> Which are the most important at this point? I was thinking TT, FT, E2. SHBG


 TT/FT/E2


----------



## jj1996

Hey mate,

Had a thought if an intermediate person A starts a blast with 500mg a week and increases it by 100mg every week for 10 weeks

and person B blasts 1500mg for 10 weeks how much would the muscle gains differ between them?

assuming genetics, training, initial muscularity and food is the same?


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Hey mate,
> 
> Had a thought if an intermediate person A starts a blast with 500mg a week and increases it by 100mg every week for 10 weeks
> 
> and person B blasts 1500mg for 10 weeks how much would the muscle gains differ between them?
> 
> assuming genetics, training, initial muscularity and food is the same?


 Option B is x 100 times better, you want higher serum levels as fast as possible to kick in gene expression. There is absolutely zero benefit to tapering up your dosage.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Option A is x 100 times better, you want higher serum levels as fast as possible to kick in gene expression. There is absolutely zero benefit to tapering up your dosage.


 Erm you mean person B 1500 for 10 weeks striaght yeah?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Is it bilateral or only one side? if one side, which side is it? This is important and helps rule out one thing over the other.
> 
> Can he pinpoint anything that might have set it off , like using a mouse/computer? Or any new medications/hormones he may have started around that time?


 He feels it in both wrists. He also describes what feels like the tendons connected to the wrists, both going towards his index finger, and going outwards towards his elbow (a few cm each way) as feeling irritated.

If you put your palm flat on a table, then the side of the wrist/hand/arm which is visible, that's the side with pain/irritation.

Writing a lot of school stuff on a computer set it off for him


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Erm you mean person B 1500 for 10 weeks striaght yeah?


 Correct, fixed.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> He feels it in both wrists. He also describes what feels like the tendons connected to the wrists, both going towards his index finger, and going outwards towards his elbow (a few cm each way) as feeling irritated.
> 
> If you put your palm flat on a table, then the side of the wrist/hand/arm which is visible, that's the side with pain/irritation.
> 
> Writing a lot of school stuff on a computer set it off for him


 Is he still using the same computer setup or has he tried modifying the angle at which his wrists align with the keyboard.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Is he still using the same computer setup or has he tried modifying the angle at which his wrists align with the keyboard.


 I don't believe he is using the computer anymore.

As much as possible, he is not using his hands at all during the day. Fortunately he is done with school so he is now able to rest his wrists for months


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> I don't believe he is using the computer anymore.
> 
> As much as possible, he is not using his hands at all during the day. Fortunately he is done with school so he is now able to rest his wrists for months


 I would see a sports medicine doctor. They are usually the best at diagnosing and addressing a problem to get you back to full functionality. They are typically superior to Orthopedic docs. They care more about restoring full functionality and deal with athletes/younger people more often where Orthos deal more with geriatric patients. (old people)


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> I would see a sports medicine doctor. They are usually the best at diagnosing and addressing a problem to get you back to full functionality. They are typically superior to Orthopedic docs. They care more about restoring full functionality and deal with athletes/younger people more often where Orthos deal more with geriatric patients. (old people)


 Sorry to post in the thread but completely agree on this one. Sport physiotherapist is your best bet

Some time ago i found a physio that worked a lot with martial arts athletes that have injuries very often and she was really helpful. Orthopedic docs in that aspect sometimes are useless , they tell you to rest and drink antiinflammatory meds that do nothing but mask the problem


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo For someone wanting to test some HGH , would it be better to take HGH fragment or HGH?

I've read that HGH fragment had less sides than HGH , HGH can increase prolactin gyno too in prone people , what about HGH fragment?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo For someone wanting to test some HGH , would it be better to take HGH fragment or HGH?
> 
> I've read that HGH fragment had less sides than HGH , HGH can increase prolactin gyno too in prone people , what about HGH fragment?


 Stick to HGH, you can test it to make sure its legit very easily. I would not bet on hgh fragments.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Option B is x 100 times better, you want higher serum levels as fast as possible to kick in gene expression. There is absolutely zero benefit to tapering up your dosage.


 But then whats the point of ramping up doses from a beginner cycle? Like why start from 500mg and work your way up cycle after cycle? Specially if your goal is competitive bodybuilding... Just to assess sides?


----------



## swole troll

jj1996 said:


> But then whats the point of ramping up doses from a beginner cycle? Like why start from 500mg and work your way up cycle after cycle? Specially if your goal is competitive bodybuilding... Just to assess sides?


 This is like asking why end a cut at 2500 calories and start a bulk at 2800, why not end the cut and jump straight to 6000kcal

Because you don't need it and you will get fat (side effect of too many calories)

Same applies to gear, you need to grow into the dosages

You can only grow so fast and increasing dosages too much too soon doesn't speed this up, it just increases sides much like pushing your caloric surplus too soon doesn't net you more muscle, just more fat


----------



## jj1996

swole troll said:


> This is like asking why end a cut at 2500 calories and start a bulk at 2800, why not end the cut and jump straight to 6000kcal
> 
> Because you don't need it and you will get fat (side effect of too many calories)
> 
> Same applies to gear, you need to grow into the dosages
> 
> You can only grow so fast and increasing dosages too much too soon doesn't speed this up, it just increases sides much like pushing your caloric surplus too soon doesn't net you more muscle, just more fat


 How do you figure out whats the maximum you can handle without being excessive? Like bumping up total by 200mg ish?


----------



## Simon90

I got told yesterday by gp I've got tonsillitis a bacterial infection, last 2 days I was feverish sore and aching all over didn't train but could still hit my calories with all whole foods. Today I woke up the fever has gone the aches and pains in body too but the throat is fu**ing killing more than ever to the extent of not swallowing food only shakes. She said wait 2-3 days before training again, what do you wreckon? I'm on antibiotics for 10 days. But itching to train

Also when measuring my blood pressure the cuffs didn't fit around upper arm so they had to take forearm measurement. Reading was156/55. This has to be inaccurate surely? She wasn't concerned but it seems way off. I've seen conversion equations online but unsure if accuracy.

Thanks again


----------



## swole troll

jj1996 said:


> How do you figure out whats the maximum you can handle without being excessive? Like bumping up total by 200mg ish?


 If you grow just fine on 500mg than the next cycle you run 500mg

If that cycle is a little underwhelming the following cycle you could bump the dose to 700mg and have 200mg of that 700mg as say an oral dosed at 30mg a day (typical first time test dbol cycle)

Grow from that and then when that becomes underwhelming bump the dosage to 800mg and split it 400mg test and 400mg deca on the next cycle

And so on..

Calories and progressive overload both of course need to be increasing in tandem as well

No good eating like a bird and looking at the drugs for growth, gear should be the last variable you increase


----------



## stewedw

Might be a daft one. But excercise form..... Does it matter loads or is it just a small variable? Asking as a pals got a well know UK pt who does video instructions with his online training. He gets people to do five second up and down for excercises (for the fist tart of say dim bell curls)

He also says hand should be fully suoinated "before curling" and the dumbbell should be as close to the wrist as possible. He explains quite well abiut skeletal load, the load on the tendons and that his way of training is to get the most load on the muscle. The tempo isn't as slow as 5 up 5 down for the rest of the sets, and he advocates three working sets with the last to failure.

I only as I've I've never seen anyone do very slow reps, or very king time under tension reps, but I have heard of folk aiming for 12 or 15 reps so that the actual time under lifting is 40-50 seconds per set ith a view to increasing weight weekly or time under load.

Cheers as always.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> But then whats the point of ramping up doses from a beginner cycle? Like why start from 500mg and work your way up cycle after cycle? Specially if your goal is competitive bodybuilding... Just to assess sides?


 Good question

No, you don't want to waste the excess AAS which increases the risks of sides. You don't want to tap into the higher doses until you maximize the effects of the lower doses. You want to pace yourself in this game, it's a marathon not a sprint.

You don't want to use up all your options for breaking a plateau. The idea of starting at extremely high levels is what someone who believes AAS drives most gains will think. AAS just increase the speed at which you can build muscle, the genetic limit you can attain, and recovery. The 3 fundamentals are still responsible for 100% of your gains. AAS let you surpass at 100%, but you still need that foundation to build muscle.

I've seen too many guys literally taking +1 gram of tren and they look like beginner lifters or after a cycle look exactly the same, because they think AAS builds muscle and aren't training/eating properly. There ARE lucky guys with good genetics who can just take AAS, pump up in the gym, and they grow well. The average guy needs to train/eat right in order to get decent or good results from an AAS cycle, and those good genetics people when trained right/eating right grow even better/freakier.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> How do you figure out whats the maximum you can handle without being excessive? Like bumping up total by 200mg ish?


 @swole troll's example with calories is spot on. It's up to you. Some guys will run 300-500 mg cycles for a while, add some orals here and there and gradually increase to 700 mg or 1 gram. Some people will hit 1 gram after a few 500 mg cycles.

Some guys need less to respond well, others do need more due to genetics. Also needs to be taken into account is the quality of your source. Is the AAS dosed right and the correct compound? All of this only applies IF you are training/eating right. Sometimes high dose cycles are just a crutch for poor training/diet and/or genetics. There ARE guys who really do build muscle more slowly than others, but most people will fall in that average bell curve.

This is not just a science, but also an art. Guys have their own way of doing things when it comes to diet/training/recovery and it works for them. At the end of the day, the fundamentals always apply, but the away you approach them can be an individual thing.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I got told yesterday by gp I've got tonsillitis a bacterial infection, last 2 days I was feverish sore and aching all over didn't train but could still hit my calories with all whole foods. Today I woke up the fever has gone the aches and pains in body too but the throat is fu**ing killing more than ever to the extent of not swallowing food only shakes. She said wait 2-3 days before training again, what do you wreckon? I'm on antibiotics for 10 days. But itching to train
> 
> Also when measuring my blood pressure the cuffs didn't fit around upper arm so they had to take forearm measurement. Reading was156/55. This has to be inaccurate surely? She wasn't concerned but it seems way off. I've seen conversion equations online but unsure if accuracy.
> 
> Thanks again


 I'm not a fan of the wrist/forearm testing. You can purchase an XL cuff for BP measurements. They usually use this for bariatric patients (obese people) but it works for bodybuilders too. You will know if it's too tight or loose by how easily you can slip two fingers in. It should slide in with some resistance, but if you can't slip the fingers in at all or it's too easy, then you have to adjust the tightness or the size of your cuff. In my experience with patients, wrist/forearm always comes out much higher than normal.

I recommend the Omron 3 monitor, very high quality and cost effective. As accurate as when i test using a stethoscope. You can get them on amazon for around $30 USD, they last forever.

If you are at the doctor's, some people get something called "white coat hypertension" this happens due to stress/anxiety/nerves that people get going to clinics/hospitals or just from being sick/in pain. That's why it's good to test when you are at home and relaxed to get a real baseline that is accurate.

There's no problem skipping a week of training. Just let your body rest and fight off the infection. You are more likely to have shitty workouts and get injured in your current condition which will put you out longer than 7 days. I would take the whole week off and relax. It will do your body good and have benefits beyond helping you fight off the infection. It takes 3-4 weeks to lose strength/muscle from not training, and that is quickly regained thanks to muscle memory. Aim for maintenance calories accounting for your reduced activity levels and come back 7 days later stronger than ever. Take the week off from training.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Might be a daft one. But excercise form..... Does it matter loads or is it just a small variable? Asking as a pals got a well know UK pt who does video instructions with his online training. He gets people to do five second up and down for excercises (for the fist tart of say dim bell curls)
> 
> He also says hand should be fully suoinated "before curling" and the dumbbell should be as close to the wrist as possible. He explains quite well abiut skeletal load, the load on the tendons and that his way of training is to get the most load on the muscle. The tempo isn't as slow as 5 up 5 down for the rest of the sets, and he advocates three working sets with the last to failure.
> 
> I only as I've I've never seen anyone do very slow reps, or very king time under tension reps, but I have heard of folk aiming for 12 or 15 reps so that the actual time under lifting is 40-50 seconds per set ith a view to increasing weight weekly or time under load.
> 
> Cheers as always.


 It matters. The two reasons:

1. Injury prevention, good form puts you in the natural range of motion and gives your body the most leverage to lift a weight.

2. Range of motion AKA ROM, you want to hit the full ROM to maximize muscle/strength increase. Staying consistent with form all ensures that you reps/weight increases are 100% attributable to an increase in strength/muscle size and not just swinging or cheating on your lifts. I've seen to many guys benching without touching their chest or locking out and squatting only 3 inches down and calling it a squat claiming they can bench 405 lbs and squat 500 lbs. A perfect form rep is worth 100 reps of a higher weight.

When i was younger and newer to lifting, i had found out that i wasn't going low enough on my squats for the full ROM/optimal results. I lowered my weight significantly and started from scratch, quickly re-built my squat numbers with perfect ROM and it payed off well.

In regards to the PT and his curling instructions, the full supination with maximize bicep muscle recruitment but also puts more strain on the elbow ligaments (only a concern if you have tennis/golfer's elbow or elbow tendonitis) supinating less hits the forearms more like in a hammer curl. The wrist thing, i don't know about that, i don't see it hurting/helping either way.

Tempo; it depends on the lift. Certains lifts i get more muscle recruitment/strength increases with explosive reps like bench/squat and quad extension/hammer curl. For curls, i would prefer the slower tempo as the PT suggests. It varies by the movement, at least for me.

I would not obsess too much over tempo and focus more on FORM/Progressive overload, too much priority on tempo will have a negative effect on both parameters.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> It matters. The two reasons:
> 
> 1. Injury prevention, good form puts you in the natural range of motion and gives your body the most leverage to lift a weight.
> 
> 2. Range of motion AKA ROM, you want to hit the full ROM to maximize muscle/strength increase. Staying consistent with form all ensures that you reps/weight increases are 100% attributable to an increase in strength/muscle size and not just swinging or cheating on your lifts. I've seen to many guys benching without touching their chest or locking out and squatting only 3 inches down and calling it a squat claiming they can bench 405 lbs and squat 500 lbs. A perfect form rep is worth 100 reps of a higher weight.
> 
> When i was younger and newer to lifting, i had found out that i wasn't going low enough on my squats for the full ROM/optimal results. I lowered my weight significantly and started from scratch, quickly re-built my squat numbers with perfect ROM and it payed off well.
> 
> In regards to the PT and his curling instructions, the full supination with maximize bicep muscle recruitment but also puts more strain on the elbow ligaments (only a concern if you have tennis/golfer's elbow or elbow tendonitis) supinating less hits the forearms more like in a hammer curl. The wrist thing, i don't know about that, i don't see it hurting/helping either way.
> 
> Tempo; it depends on the lift. Certains lifts i get more muscle recruitment/strength increases with explosive reps like bench/squat and quad extension/hammer curl. For curls, i would prefer the slower tempo as the PT suggests. It varies by the movement, at least for me.
> 
> I would not obsess too much over tempo and focus more on FORM/Progressive overload, too much priority on tempo will have a negative effect on both parameters.


 Excellent detailed reply as usual. Thank you.

I squeeze every rep when pushpin, pressing etc (chest tri shoulders) and get far more dims than when I do pulling excercises so maybe this is something I can focus on etc. Stressing the muscle and squeezing the reps instead of moving the weight (ten years at a powerlifting gym teaches otherwise)

Thank you again.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> @swole troll's example with calories is spot on. It's up to you. Some guys will run 300-500 mg cycles for a while, add some orals here and there and gradually increase to 700 mg or 1 gram. Some people will hit 1 gram after a few 500 mg cycles.
> 
> Some guys need less to respond well, others do need more due to genetics. Also needs to be taken into account is the quality of your source. Is the AAS dosed right and the correct compound? All of this only applies IF you are training/eating right. Sometimes high dose cycles are just a crutch for poor training/diet and/or genetics. There ARE guys who really do build muscle more slowly than others, but most people will fall in that average bell curve.
> 
> This is not just a science, but also an art. Guys have their own way of doing things when it comes to diet/training/recovery and it works for them. At the end of the day, the fundamentals always apply, but the away you approach them can be an individual thing.


 Cheers mate just finished up reading through all the log haha. Very informative!

Which brings me to my next question lets say i want to do a long cycle 600 Test and 200 Tren is it reasonable to do 20-24 weeks?

My past cycles were along those lines( 500 test for 27 weeks and 500 Test and 300 Npp for 20 weeks) literally milking it out till the muscle to fat ratio goes to s**t.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Excellent detailed reply as usual. Thank you.
> 
> I squeeze every rep when pushpin, pressing etc (chest tri shoulders) and get far more dims than when I do pulling excercises so maybe this is something I can focus on etc. Stressing the muscle and squeezing the reps instead of moving the weight (ten years at a powerlifting gym teaches otherwise)
> 
> Thank you again.


 Don't focus on getting DOMS, it's a nice feeling to know you trained the muscle hard, but to gauge the success of your training, go 100% by progressive overload. You don't need DOMS or training to failure to get results. DOMS usually happens when training a muscle for the first time or after a long break or when you switch up the movement/weight/reps. Not getting DOMS does not mean you didn't train well.

Training to failure is fun and feels good, but it's a good idea to limit how often you do it as it can deplete you significantly. I'll usually do failure for set 1 and leaving some in the tank for the subsequent sets, i find recovery and progress is much better this way than going to failure for ever set.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Cheers mate just finished up reading through all the log haha. Very informative!
> 
> Which brings me to my next question lets say i want to do a long cycle 600 Test and 200 Tren is it reasonable to do 20-24 weeks?
> 
> My past cycles were along those lines( 500 test for 27 weeks and 500 Test and 300 Npp for 20 weeks) literally milking it out till the muscle to fat ratio goes to s**t.


 The longer the cycle, the more suppressed your HPTA/fertility will be if you care about this, but it can be mitigated to an extent with HCG. It's worse on tren.

Lipids will be cooked for a long time, honestly, how safe/dangerous this is to your health depends on various factors like BP control, hematocrit, doing cardiovascular exercise, genetic predisposition for heart disease/stroke/heart attack, etc. Also, how long will you keep this up? If you do this for a couple of years you will likely be fine, it's the guys doing this for +7-10 years that will likely start to pay for it.

Are you a blast/cruise or blast/PCT person? Is there a final physique goal?

I always tell everyone, the safest way to play this game is to reach your physique/strength goal and then maintain that on cruise/TRT or after a PCT. Decades of AAS use puts a strain on the CV system and guys with genetic susceptibility for heart issues are most at risk.


----------



## Djibril

Is there any advantage to taking yohimbine in a fasted state then preworkout?

Im cutting and will get yohimbine and ephedrine. Will use first the yohimbine for 8 weeks then switch to Eph for the rest of the time and hope it will curve my appetite a little.

Do you use ephedrine twice per day ? Something like fasted and pre workout


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> The longer the cycle, the more suppressed your HPTA/fertility will be if you care about this, but it can be mitigated to an extent with HCG. It's worse on tren.
> 
> Lipids will be cooked for a long time, honestly, how safe/dangerous this is to your health depends on various factors like BP control, hematocrit, doing cardiovascular exercise, genetic predisposition for heart disease/stroke/heart attack, etc. Also, how long will you keep this up? If you do this for a couple of years you will likely be fine, it's the guys doing this for +7-10 years that will likely start to pay for it.
> 
> Are you a blast/cruise or blast/PCT person? Is there a final physique goal?
> 
> I always tell everyone, the safest way to play this game is to reach your physique/strength goal and then maintain that on cruise/TRT or after a PCT. Decades of AAS use puts a strain on the CV system and guys with genetic susceptibility for heart issues are most at risk.


 I'm 23 wanting to get highly competitive in men's physique and i plan to wrap up it all up before 30.

For now my goal is to add as much lean mass as possible by end of next year. I blast and cruise..No drugs/alcohol/smoking

I'm relatively new to AAS so that's why most of my questions are related to that. I've trained natty for years with following guys like eric helms, mike matthews etc. Maxes were Bench 140 kg/ squat 170kg and Deadlift 210kg natty at 75kg 6ft 1 (small frame my waist is 26 inches when shredded, 6.25 inch wrist etc)

My training style now is a lot like JP's High intensity low volume and I eat and live like a monk (spending most of the time in a surplus)... I don't know if doing too much gear too little etc.. I've added almost 15kg in the last year with anabolics. I guess I'm trying to find that sweet spot, the maximum i can take and still put it to use..

With all the discussion with yourself i guess i have narrowed down to two choices for the next run:

A: 500test/500 NPP for 20-24 weeks with an oral rotated on and off 4 weeks

B: 600test/200 Tren for 16-20 weeks with an oral last 8 weeks

What would yield the most amount of muscle mass? and would you make any changes to the above?

And cheers for helping a brother out!


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Is there any advantage to taking yohimbine in a fasted state then preworkout?
> 
> Im cutting and will get yohimbine and ephedrine. Will use first the yohimbine for 8 weeks then switch to Eph for the rest of the time and hope it will curve my appetite a little.
> 
> Do you use ephedrine twice per day ? Something like fasted and pre workout


 Yohimbine should be used fasted for fat loss for best results.

It makes more sense to use ephedrine first, yohimbine is best at torching stubborn fat due to alpha 2 adrenergic receptor blocking, so it makes more sense to use it when you start getting into the tougher fat but the appetite suppressant effect of Ephedrine is useful as well as the energy boost.

When i used Ephedrine, once a day was enough for me and i have a very high tolerance for stimulants. I don't use fat burners anymore, if i need to cut, it only takes me 2-3 weeks max as i stay very lean year round.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> I'm 23 wanting to get highly competitive in men's physique and i plan to wrap up it all up before 30.
> 
> For now my goal is to add as much lean mass as possible by end of next year. I blast and cruise..No drugs/alcohol/smoking
> 
> I'm relatively new to AAS so that's why most of my questions are related to that. I've trained natty for years with following guys like eric helms, mike matthews etc. Maxes were Bench 140 kg/ squat 170kg and Deadlift 210kg natty at 75kg 6ft 1 (small frame my waist is 26 inches when shredded, 6.25 inch wrist etc)
> 
> My training style now is a lot like JP's High intensity low volume and I eat and live like a monk (spending most of the time in a surplus)... I don't know if doing too much gear too little etc.. I've added almost 15kg in the last year with anabolics. I guess I'm trying to find that sweet spot, the maximum i can take and still put it to use..
> 
> With all the discussion with yourself i guess i have narrowed down to two choices for the next run:
> 
> A: 500test/500 NPP for 20-24 weeks with an oral rotated on and off 4 weeks
> 
> B: 600test/200 Tren for 16-20 weeks with an oral last 8 weeks
> 
> What would yield the most amount of muscle mass? and would you make any changes to the above?
> 
> And cheers for helping a brother out!


 So you have a great base to start off from. I enjoy Mike Matthews stuff a lot.

I already told you what i would do in your situation.

500/500 NPP+test + winstrol 50 mg (winstrol for 12 weeks straight+TUDCA/NAC for liver protection)

500/500 tren+test + winstrol 50 mg (winstrol for 12 weeks straight+TUDCA/NAC for liver protection)

Simple and extremely effective. Keeping ralox/nolva and cialis in case you get gyno/limp dick from the tren or NPP.

Best results will come from combining heavy compound lifts (squats) with higher volume isolation (Quad extension/ham curls) with progressive overload and caloric surplus.

HGH will enhance results of the cycle and will strongly preserve muscle during a cut (HGH makes your body hold on to protein and preferentially burn fat). I Recommend 3-4 IU HGH if you are going to use it.

When/if you retire at 30, you can keep most of your muscle/strength on 150-300 mg test per week+HGH 3-4 IU. Lots of pros use HGH+cruise test in between their cycles with amazing results.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo was doing a mini cut after my holiday but suffering a bit from what I think is tendonitis.

Gonna take a week off the gym to begin with.

Should I up my calories to maintainence during this time?


----------



## strawberry123

Hi mate,

been on 300mg test E for a while now And started to feel a bit off. Was taking .5mg Adex a week and last time I took this was 14/10. I thought my E was low tbh as had dry skin but could still get it up no problems just a bit lower sex drive. I stopped AI due to this. Sent for medichecks bloods on 24/10 and have just got them back. E is really high. Funnily enough no gyno symptoms and no feeling in nipples.

obvs need to get E in range so was thinking to start taking Adex 1mg Monday's and fridays. Then get bloods again in 3 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo was doing a mini cut after my holiday but suffering a bit from what I think is tendonitis.
> 
> Gonna take a week off the gym to begin with.
> 
> Should I up my calories to maintainence during this time?


 Yes, do maintenance, it will help heal the tissues up faster.

Can you identify what caused the flare up? Where is it?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> been on 300mg test E for a while now And started to feel a bit off. Was taking .5mg Adex a week and last time I took this was 14/10. I thought my E was low tbh as had dry skin but could still get it up no problems just a bit lower sex drive. I stopped AI due to this. Sent for medichecks bloods on 24/10 and have just got them back. E is really high. Funnily enough no gyno symptoms and no feeling in nipples.
> 
> obvs need to get E in range so was thinking to start taking Adex 1mg Monday's and fridays. Then get bloods again in 3 weeks
> 
> View attachment 176987


 Don't obsess over controlling E2 too much. 2 mg adex per week is way too much 90% of the time.

Are you saying you feel off right now? Or do you feel fine with this E2 level? High E2 is expected and normal when taking TRT and higher than normal doses.


----------



## strawberry123

ElChapo said:


> Don't obsess over controlling E2 too much. 2 mg adex per week is way too much 90% of the time.
> 
> Are you saying you feel off right now? Or do you feel fine with this E2 level? High E2 is expected and normal when taking TRT and higher than normal doses.


 I feel ok but sex drive is definitely reduced and can get quite lethargic in the afternoons. But then again as a postman I walk about 12 miles before 2pm so could just be work. Quality of erection not as strong either


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> So you have a great base to start off from. I enjoy Mike Matthews stuff a lot.
> 
> I already told you what i would do in your situation.
> 
> 500/500 NPP+test + winstrol 50 mg (winstrol for 12 weeks straight+TUDCA/NAC for liver protection)
> 
> 500/500 tren+test + winstrol 50 mg (winstrol for 12 weeks straight+TUDCA/NAC for liver protection)
> 
> Simple and extremely effective. Keeping ralox/nolva and cialis in case you get gyno/limp dick from the tren or NPP.
> 
> Best results will come from combining heavy compound lifts (squats) with higher volume isolation (Quad extension/ham curls) with progressive overload and caloric surplus.
> 
> HGH will enhance results of the cycle and will strongly preserve muscle during a cut (HGH makes your body hold on to protein and preferentially burn fat). I Recommend 3-4 IU HGH if you are going to use it.
> 
> When/if you retire at 30, you can keep most of your muscle/strength on 150-300 mg test per week+HGH 3-4 IU. Lots of pros use HGH+cruise test in between their cycles with amazing results.


 Thanks a lot mate! with regards to the cycle length for each, do i stop everything at 12? or just the winstrol?

And how much of a game changer is GH? and it could it be harmful for mens physique classes? (conflicting info regarding bubble guts, some say slin, some say food, etc)


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> I feel ok but sex drive is definitely reduced and can get quite lethargic in the afternoons. But then again as a postman I walk about 12 miles before 2pm so could just be work. Quality of erection not as strong either


 How did you feel on 0.5 mg adex per week? why would you increase it to 2 mg adex?


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Thanks a lot mate! with regards to the cycle length for each, do i stop everything at 12? or just the winstrol?
> 
> And how much of a game changer is GH? and it could it be harmful for mens physique classes? (conflicting info regarding bubble guts, some say slin, some say food, etc)


 Up to you

Bubble guts happen with tons HGH+Insulin, we are talking 3-4 IU HGH per day only. Physique guys are running HGH.


----------



## strawberry123

ElChapo said:


> How did you feel on 0.5 mg adex per week? why would you increase it to 2 mg adex?


 I more meant to do 2mg this week to get E2 down then re-access. May do .5mg today and Friday and go from there? Would that be a better idea do you reckon?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> I more meant to do 2mg this week to get E2 down then re-access. May do .5mg today and Friday and go from there? Would that be a better idea do you reckon?


 Don't do that. Just use the dose you plan on using and wait. Adex will crash you hard and fast.


----------



## strawberry123

ElChapo said:


> Don't do that. Just use the dose you plan on using and wait. Adex will crash you hard and fast.


 Cheers mate


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> I'm not a fan of the wrist/forearm testing. You can purchase an XL cuff for BP measurements. They usually use this for bariatric patients (obese people) but it works for bodybuilders too. You will know if it's too tight or loose by how easily you can slip two fingers in. It should slide in with some resistance, but if you can't slip the fingers in at all or it's too easy, then you have to adjust the tightness or the size of your cuff. In my experience with patients, wrist/forearm always comes out much higher than normal.
> 
> I recommend the Omron 3 monitor, very high quality and cost effective. As accurate as when i test using a stethoscope. You can get them on amazon for around $30 USD, they last forever.
> 
> If you are at the doctor's, some people get something called "white coat hypertension" this happens due to stress/anxiety/nerves that people get going to clinics/hospitals or just from being sick/in pain. That's why it's good to test when you are at home and relaxed to get a real baseline that is accurate.
> 
> There's no problem skipping a week of training. Just let your body rest and fight off the infection. You are more likely to have shitty workouts and get injured in your current condition which will put you out longer than 7 days. I would take the whole week off and relax. It will do your body good and have benefits beyond helping you fight off the infection. It takes 3-4 weeks to lose strength/muscle from not training, and that is quickly regained thanks to muscle memory. Aim for maintenance calories accounting for your reduced activity levels and come back 7 days later stronger than ever. Take the week off from training.


 Thank you as always for such a detailed response. Although it's not what I wanted to hear lol I will take your advice and have the week off. Reason I'm so keen is Ive not trained now properly in the last 6 weeks heavy stress run down with bad colds and serious family stuff/stress now this to top it off os going to put me into the 7th week


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

I've ordered a home blood testing kit supplied by a UK company called medichecks. Should I do anything the days prior to get an accurate result?

Ie I know heavy training can elevate levels of information markers etc. I'm on cycle 750mg sust per week. Should I have the blood taken on a particular day relating to jabs? I'm jabbing mo day and Thursday just now. No ai, no other meds being taken.

I've screenshot Ted what the test I order covers.

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Thank you as always for such a detailed response. Although it's not what I wanted to hear lol I will take your advice and have the week off. Reason I'm so keen is Ive not trained now properly in the last 6 weeks heavy stress run down with bad colds and serious family stuff/stress now this to top it off os going to put me into the 7th week


 it happens brother, you will bounce back from it. This is the long game, it's important to back off when you need to and come back stronger.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> I've ordered a home blood testing kit supplied by a UK company called medichecks. Should I do anything the days prior to get an accurate result?
> 
> Ie I know heavy training can elevate levels of information markers etc. I'm on cycle 750mg sust per week. Should I have the blood taken on a particular day relating to jabs? I'm mom and Rhu just now. No ai, no other meds being taken.
> 
> I've screenshot Ted what the test I order covers.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> View attachment 177001
> 
> 
> View attachment 177003
> 
> 
> View attachment 177005


 Mom, Rhu? (what?)

How often are you injecting sustanon? It has short esters in it that will spike hard the first 1-3 days.

You want to be well-hydrated so that GFR (kidneys) and hematocrit ( blood thickness) come back accurate.

Test early in the AM before 10 AM for accurate thyroid markers and hormones. (TSH/FT4)


----------



## stewedw

Re above.

Mon and Thu is when I'm taking sust 1.5ml (325mg) per shot.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Yes, do maintenance, it will help heal the tissues up faster.
> 
> Can you identify what caused the flare up? Where is it?


 Thanks for the reply.

It's where the top of my forearm meets my elbow.

Hurts when doing pushing movements. Not sure how it happened tbh.


----------



## TURBS

stewedw said:


> Re above.
> 
> Mon and Thu is when I'm taking sust 1.5ml (325mg) per shot.


 Do bloods Monday @ 9/10am before jab.


----------



## stewedw

TERBO said:


> Do bloods Monday @ 9/10am before jab.


 Why before mon, out of interest? Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> It's where the top of my forearm meets my elbow.
> 
> Hurts when doing pushing movements. Not sure how it happened tbh.


 Do you do tricep extensions at all?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Why before Jan, out of interest? Thanks.


 It doesn't matter too much when you draw, the day of injection would give you a trough. Sustanon is hard to track because there's so much going on with a bunch of esters mixed in.


----------



## S123

@ElChapo

Hi Mate,

Would 2.5iu of hgh and 300mg be good for a cut, I'm currently not on anything came over for a while, lost around 20lbs (not been training or anything) but kinda got fat at the same time... would it be worth using 2.5iu of hgh or should I just add another steroid?


----------



## ElChapo

S123 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> Would 2.5iu of hgh and 300mg be good for a cut, I'm currently not on anything came over for a while, lost around 20lbs (not been training or anything) but kinda got fat at the same time... would it be worth using 2.5iu of hgh or should I just add another steroid?


 "Worth it" depends on your accessibility to cheap GH/personal funds/etc.

If you are going to get ultra lean (down to 5-8%) and you care about preserving all your strength/muscle, it's a nice add-on. For most people, they would do fine just running 50 mg winstrol instead on top of some testosterone as you suggested. If you are going to come off and PCT, run HCG (1,500 IU) from start to finish+2 weeks into PCT.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Do you do tricep extensions at all?


 Yeah, is that probably causing it?


----------



## Will2309

@El Chapo what are thoughts on plant base protein v meat protein. ??

Been watching a film on Netflix called Game Changers. It has got me thinking.


----------



## Matt83

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo what are thoughts on plant base protein v meat protein. ??
> 
> Been watching a film on Netflix called Game Changers. It has got me thinking.


 That documentary is very one sided!

For example they compare the digestive system of an obligate carnivore (lion, wolf, etc) to a humans and say "a humans is much longer so there for we were meant to eat plants". But then they don't compare it to that of an obligate herbivore (giraffe, cow, etc) which is many times longer with special adaptations to remove as much nutrition as possible from plant matter. Humans are omnivores (like badgers and bears), we sit in the middle and should eat a varied diet of meat and plants.

Plus a lot of the science used is old, it's now thought that carb consumption plays a much bigger role in heart disease than animal based fats.

There's a reason you don't see many vegetarians and vegans placing high in the Olympia, Worlds Strongest Man and top end power lifting. It's just not optimal.


----------



## GMme

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo what are thoughts on plant base protein v meat protein. ??
> 
> Been watching a film on Netflix called Game Changers. It has got me thinking.


 oh dear.....

they looked at the bones of gladiators and found out they ate alot of plants. So obviously eat some plants to become a gladiator.

The whole film is twoddle, study a few top tier athletes that are vegan... dont study the thousands of others who are better than them and eat meat.

In the past two days I have seen so much stupidity on this forum, i thought that most of the people on here were pretty switched on, clearly not.


----------



## Will2309

Matt83 said:


> That documentary is very one sided!
> 
> For example they compare the digestive system of an obligate carnivore (lion, wolf, etc) to a humans and say "a humans is much longer so there for we were meant to eat plants". But then they don't compare it to that of an obligate herbivore (giraffe, cow, etc) which is many times longer with special adaptations to remove as much nutrition as possible from plant matter. Humans are omnivores (like badgers and bears), we sit in the middle and should eat a varied diet of meat and plants.
> 
> Plus a lot of the science used is old, it's now thought that carb consumption plays a much bigger role in heart disease than animal based fats.
> 
> There's a reason you don't see many vegetarians and vegans placing high in the Olympia, Worlds Strongest Man and top end power lifting. It's just not optimal.


 Yes it is very One sided. 
I have now been watching some joe rogan pod casts with some guy who was saying some very good point to why we need meat. From vit b12 to Vit k2 which can't get from plants for a example.

It was Just a thought.


----------



## Will2309

GMme said:


> In the past two days I have seen so much stupidity on this forum, i thought that most of the people on here were pretty switched on, clearly not.


 It was a thought and I asked question on it. I didn't have much time to have a look first obviously i should of done by you reply.


----------



## GMme

you can certainly get all your protein needs from vegan stuff but i think the level of detail and work that goes into making sure you get enough of the different things makes it mad. like you cant just eat one type of bean, you need a few for the different kinds of proteins.

I didnt mean to snap, from your intial comment it looked like you saw some of the movie and considered going vegan. Sorry i didnt mean to offend, i think i came here from a different thread of stupidity and the rage carried over


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Yeah, is that probably causing it?


 Yes, i hate these for elbow health.

You are better off hitting heavy bench and heavy weighted dips, which trains the triceps in their natural ROM. Dumbell and cable tricep extension is a recipe for elbow problems in genetically susceptible individuals. Cut them out and you should be okay, it's a good idea to take a full week of training to let the inflammation calm down.


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> @El Chapo what are thoughts on plant base protein v meat protein. ??
> 
> Been watching a film on Netflix called Game Changers. It has got me thinking.


 Garbage film and propaganda.

Plant based protein is perfect fine, pea protein is as effective as whey protein at building muscle. I'm not against vegetarian/veganism, just note that veganism sets you up for multiple nutrient deficiencies. If a diet requires you to supplement x 5-10 things just to make it viable for your health, it makes you think how "healthy" is it really....


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> It was a thought and I asked question on it. I didn't have much time to have a look first obviously i should of done by you reply.


 We are here to learn, there is no such thing as a stupid question and i welcome all questions.

It was a good question to ask.


----------



## ElChapo

GMme said:


> you can certainly get all your protein needs from vegan stuff but i think the level of detail and work that goes into making sure you get enough of the different things makes it mad. like you cant just eat one type of bean, you need a few for the different kinds of proteins.
> 
> I didnt mean to snap, from your intial comment it looked like you saw some of the movie and considered going vegan. Sorry i didnt mean to offend, i think i came here from a different thread of stupidity and the rage carried over


 There's a bunch of stuff you become deficient in, minerals/vitamins/b vitamins AND even creatine.

When they supplement vegetarians with creatine, they have a huge increase in cognitive function which suggests a diet derived deficiency in creatine. Vegetarian diet is much more sustainable and health than a vegan. You can get a ton of nutrition out of eggs, dairy, and other animal based foods.

Going vegan will require some serious supplementation to prevent overt deficiency in a bunch things like zinc, iron, B vitamins, creatine, etc. We evolved as hunter-gathers and that is where our physiology tends to thrive. We hunted animals but also picked berries/fruits/vegetables, etc. A very important part of the health puzzle is ACTIVITY, what is killing us is the sedentary lifestyle and carrying excess amounts of body fat that encourage inflammation/cancer in our bodies.


----------



## Will2309

GMme said:


> you can certainly get all your protein needs from vegan stuff but i think the level of detail and work that goes into making sure you get enough of the different things makes it mad. like you cant just eat one type of bean, you need a few for the different kinds of proteins.
> 
> I didnt mean to snap, from your intial comment it looked like you saw some of the movie and considered going vegan. Sorry i didnt mean to offend, i think i came here from a different thread of stupidity and the rage carried over


 I maybe considered trying it for a sec but the more I watched different pod casts, and did a bit more reading I realised how difficult it would be to get all the protein and the correct nutrients so we wouldn't become Deficient in any thing and decided it wouldn't work.

Yes I was lazy in asking the question rather than researching myself.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Yes, i hate these for elbow health.
> 
> You are better off hitting heavy bench and heavy weighted dips, which trains the triceps in their natural ROM. Dumbell and cable tricep extension is a recipe for elbow problems in genetically susceptible individuals. Cut them out and you should be okay, it's a good idea to take a full week of training to let the inflammation calm down.


 That's brilliant advice, thanks for the help.

So should i avoid skull crusher's, overhead rope extensions etc? If so what do you recommend to hit the long head of the tricep?

Thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

Will2309 said:


> I maybe considered trying it for a sec but the more I watched different pod casts, and did a bit more reading I realised how difficult it would be to get all the protein and the correct nutrients so we wouldn't become Deficient in any thing and decided it wouldn't work.
> 
> Yes I was lazy in asking the question rather than researching myself.


 You also would not be reaping any real benefits by switching to vegan.

Again, not a bad question to ask.


----------



## stewedw

@swole troll and @El Chapo

A few posts ago a member asked why large doses early would be bad. Ie taking 1g test by your third cycle instead of increasing cycles gradually.

The response was that they wouldn't be able to use all the gear, didn't have enough muscle and could grow on less, if I recall?

The question I have is, if someone is 28 and ran five cycles, but is only 90kg 6ft etc. But DID fk up and take too much on all four cycles, what should the fifth cycle be? Ie if this person goes back to 500mg test or test plus an oral, will he still respond or has he messed it up by taking too much early on? I think a lot of newbies on this forum are onto test tren and mast before their natural limit, they make gains but the gear masks the holes in diet, training etc however after a few years they get that all nailed and have a older wiser head so are looking to start again, knowing that they now have diet and training on point. So where to they start, in order to gauge things and not piss about for the next couple of cycles?

Cheers fellas. (this is from a mate who fits this description, I'm trying to show how he doesn't have to increase his dose just because the last cycle was 1.5g or oils lol) ?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> That's brilliant advice, thanks for the help.
> 
> So should i avoid skull crusher's, overhead rope extensions etc? If so what do you recommend to hit the long head of the tricep?
> 
> Thanks again


 Correct, like i said, hit heavy bench and weighted dips. Your triceps will explode. The 2nd half + lockout activates the triceps on both movements. You can do lower reps for strength and higher reps for volume.

I haven't met anyone who could dip with 100 lbs attached for high reps without very well developed triceps. Replace your tricep accessories with weighted dips and get really strong on the bench press.

Remember to do full ROM for your dips. The bottom half hits the pecs more and the upper half+lockout hits the triceps just like the bench press. They are also fantastic for shoulder strength and development.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @swole troll and @El Chapo
> 
> A few posts ago a member asked why large doses early would be bad. Ie taking 1g test by your third cycle instead of increasing cycles gradually.
> 
> The response was that they wouldn't be able to use all the gear, didn't have enough muscle and could grow on less, if I recall?
> 
> The question I have is, if someone is 28 and ran five cycles, but is only 90kg 6ft etc. But DID fk up and take too much on all four cycles, what should the fifth cycle be? Ie if this person goes back to 500mg test or test plus an oral, will he still respond or has he messed it up by taking too much early on? I think a lot of newbies on this forum are onto test tren and mast before their natural limit, they make gains but the gear masks the holes in diet, training etc however after a few years they get that all nailed and have a older wiser head so are looking to start again, knowing that they now have diet and training on point. So where to they start, in order to gauge things and not piss about for the next couple of cycles?
> 
> Cheers fellas. (this is from a mate who fits this description, I'm trying to show how he doesn't have to increase his dose just because the last cycle was 1.5g or oils lol) ?


 Going backwards in dosage but training/eating right will still net you muscle gains. The body won't develop a tolerance like that.

The guys who blast huge doses as a crutch are the same guys you see shrink like a balloon when they come off cycle or go back to cruise.

Personally, I never saw the point in training/building muscle/strength if i couldn't maintain most of it year round or to a decent extent on a cruise or PCT.

90 kg at 6 feet after 5 cycles is pretty bad, especially if body fat is on the higher end, the most important thing is TRAINING+DIET+RECOVERY, that person needs to get those down, then you can start with something like 300-500 mg and/or add orals. Someone who is 6 ft is going to have to eat a lot to pack on mass, and if they have a faster metabolism than average, even moreso. Sometimes eating enough calories is literally harder than the training/weightlifting itself but there are tricks to make it easier. ( Whole milk, cereal, peanut butter, etc)

I would definitely not keep pushing the dosages, he's just going to spin his wheels and waste money and risk his health for nothing.


----------



## swole troll

stewedw said:


> @swole troll and @El Chapo
> 
> A few posts ago a member asked why large doses early would be bad. Ie taking 1g test by your third cycle instead of increasing cycles gradually.
> 
> The response was that they wouldn't be able to use all the gear, didn't have enough muscle and could grow on less, if I recall?
> 
> The question I have is, if someone is 28 and ran five cycles, but is only 90kg 6ft etc. But DID fk up and take too much on all four cycles, what should the fifth cycle be? Ie if this person goes back to 500mg test or test plus an oral, will he still respond or has he messed it up by taking too much early on? I think a lot of newbies on this forum are onto test tren and mast before their natural limit, they make gains but the gear masks the holes in diet, training etc however after a few years they get that all nailed and have a older wiser head so are looking to start again, knowing that they now have diet and training on point. So where to they start, in order to gauge things and not piss about for the next couple of cycles?
> 
> Cheers fellas. (this is from a mate who fits this description, I'm trying to show how he doesn't have to increase his dose just because the last cycle was 1.5g or oils lol) ?


 this is elchapo and ghost.recons AMA but ill chime in on this one since you tagged me 
in future tag me in a new thread.

you don't need to constantly ramp up dosages and once you do you are not 'stuck there'

again you can compare back to the food analogy i made, this is like asking 'if i go up to 4000kcal when 3000 is my maintenance am i able to drop back to 3500kcal and still make progress'

the answer is yes and with less fat gain or in the case of excessive and unnecessarily high doses of gear with less side effects

a lot of us would rather over than under shoot on the dosages just to insure that box is firmly ticked 
which is fine but often we tend to WAY overshoot

I'll use myself as an example, I'm bigger, stronger and more muscular this year using around 750 - 1200mg total gear than i was in 2018 averaging around 1500mg and never really going below a gram

I've not changed any of my training or nutrition principles and my progressive overload has simply evolved with my strength and recovery ability I was just clearly over shooting by too much in 2018 where gear was concerned

whatever dose you think is enough right now, pull back 20% and I'm confident you wont notice a difference post blast if everything else is dialed in you'll have made similar progress using say 800mg vs 1000mg unless of course you rely entirely on the gear in which case you will still get the same end result which is to shrink down to fa actual progress post cycle and you'd have also done the same on the higher dose only dropped even more s**t weight once you come off

I keep using the food analogy and bulking akin to blasting because it is a sliding scale of response assuming you are getting 'enough' adding more doesn't build any more muscle it just adds more side effects

more people should use this comparison rather than to recreational drugs and building a tolerance to them


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> this is elchapo and ghost.recons AMA but ill chime in on this one since you tagged me
> in future tag me in a new thread.
> 
> you don't need to constantly ramp up dosages and once you do you are not 'stuck there'
> 
> again you can compare back to the food analogy i made, this is like asking 'if i go up to 4000kcal when 3000 is my maintenance am i able to drop back to 3500kcal and still make progress'
> 
> the answer is yes and with less fat gain or in the case of excessive and unnecessarily high doses of gear with less side effects
> 
> a lot of us would rather over than under shoot on the dosages just to insure that box is firmly ticked
> which is fine but often we tend to WAY overshoot
> 
> I'll use myself as an example, I'm bigger, stronger and more muscular this year using around 750 - 1200mg total gear than i was in 2018 averaging around 1500mg and never really going below a gram
> 
> I've not changed any of my training or nutrition principles and my progressive overload has simply evolved with my strength and recovery ability I was just clearly over shooting by too much in 2018 where gear was concerned
> 
> whatever dose you think is enough right now, pull back 20% and I'm confident you wont notice a difference post blast if everything else is dialed in you'll have made similar progress using say 800mg vs 1000mg unless of course you rely entirely on the gear in which case you will still get the same end result which is to shrink down to fa actual progress post cycle and you'd have also done the same on the higher dose only dropped even more s**t weight once you come off
> 
> I keep using the food analogy and bulking akin to blasting because it is a sliding scale of response assuming you are getting 'enough' adding more doesn't build any more muscle it just adds more side effects
> 
> more people should use this comparison rather than to recreational drugs and building a tolerance to them


 Your input is always welcomed here.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo what is your opinion on the idea that NPP holds less water than Deca. And also test prop holding less water than Enanthate etc?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo what is your opinion on the idea that NPP holds less water than Deca. And also test prop holding less water than Enanthate etc?


 It does for sure, in my personal experience and as seen in others. It's one of those broscience things that is legit. Why it happens? Not sure, probably something to do with non-genomic expression differences with more stable levels. Some guy wrote some "sciency" sounding article about it a while back but it didn't really make much sense.


----------



## swole troll

always been an oral kickstart kind of guy due to the in and out nature and easy timing of it all with longer esters but how would you taper npp into a deca cycle in order to get the ball rolling faster without an aggressive dip in performance

any time ive tried this in the past i often end up under or over shooting so that my levels either drop because i came off the short ester too soon or they drop because i stayed on it too long and the longer ester was already working at full effect by the time i dropped the short and experienced a lull

i was thinking maybe 500mg deca per week with 100mg npp x3 per week for the first 21 days ?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> always been an oral kickstart kind of guy due to the in and out nature and easy timing of it all with longer esters but how would you taper npp into a deca cycle in order to get the ball rolling faster without an aggressive dip in performance
> 
> any time ive tried this in the past i often end up under or over shooting so that my levels either drop because i came off the short ester too soon or they drop because i stayed on it too long and the longer ester was already working at full effect by the time i dropped the short and experienced a lull
> 
> i was thinking maybe 500mg deca per week with 100mg npp x3 per week for the first 21 days ?


 2-3 weeks of NPP+Deca+ an oral will have you going very fast. I feel deca is slightly slower at kicking in than enathate and i'm a slow responder to begin with which further makes me favor shorter esters.

We know the faster kick in time of shorter ester is not due to serum levels building up because we reach very high and close to max serum levels even with long ester fairly quickly. It may be due to the stronger serum spikes illiciting a faster genomic response to AAS.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo what would you think would get the best gains and be the dryest from the following cycles:

150 test p/450 npp+50mg winstrol

300/300 test p npp+ 50mg winstrol


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

Excellent thread, I've read through all of this one and the previous 2 and learnt so much so a big thank you to yourself and @ghost.recon for keeping this excellent resource going.

I do have a few questions but they're a bit random subjects wise, so bare with me.

How long do you think HCG can stay frozen without there being an effect to the compound?

You've said carbs before bed can help slightly with sleep due to the release of certain hormones. Is there a rough idea on how close to bed I should consume them?

I've heard orals should be taken fasted for maximum absorption. While the difference taking them fasted/unfasted probably isn't much to stress over, is there any truth to the statement?

Ignoring side-effects and focusing only on lean tissue growth potential, what have you found is more effective - Superdrol or Winstrol? And can you run either of these compounds for the full duration of a 16-week cycle (of course with TUDCA+NAC), or would you say it's smarter to cap it at 12 weeks?

The mechanisms of action are different between Clen and Yohimbine. Would the two synergystically promote more fat loss; is there any inherent benefit? Aside from the increase in stimulant side effects, is there any other reason the two shouldn't be used together?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo what would you think would get the best gains and be the dryest from the following cycles:
> 
> 150 test p/450 npp+50mg winstrol
> 
> 300/300 test p npp+ 50mg winstrol


 #2

300 mg test p is still pretty dry (very different from enanthate). If you want to maximize dryness and aesthetics year round, never go over 15% body fat. Always use short esters and test P. Winstrol is the strongest steroid for sucking out SQ water.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> #2
> 
> 300 mg test p is still pretty dry (very different from enanthate). If you want to maximize dryness and aesthetics year round, never go over 15% body fat. Always use short esters and test P. Winstrol is the strongest steroid for sucking out SQ water.


 When you say sucking out water, do you actually mean it does this or gives the appearance of dryness? (we can all see how dry and firm the muscles certainly feel and look when we are lean enough. Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Excellent thread, I've read through all of this one and the previous 2 and learnt so much so a big thank you to yourself and @ghost.recon for keeping this excellent resource going.
> 
> I do have a few questions but they're a bit random subjects wise, so bare with me.
> 
> How long do you think HCG can stay frozen without there being an effect to the compound?
> 
> You've said carbs before bed can help slightly with sleep due to the release of certain hormones. Is there a rough idea on how close to bed I should consume them?
> 
> I've heard orals should be taken fasted for maximum absorption. While the difference taking them fasted/unfasted probably isn't much to stress over, is there any truth to the statement?
> 
> Ignoring side-effects and focusing only on lean tissue growth potential, what have you found is more effective - Superdrol or Winstrol? And can you run either of these compounds for the full duration of a 16-week cycle (of course with TUDCA+NAC), or would you say it's smarter to cap it at 12 weeks?
> 
> The mechanisms of action are different between Clen and Yohimbine. Would the two synergystically promote more fat loss; is there any inherent benefit? Aside from the increase in stimulant side effects, is there any other reason the two shouldn't be used together?


 Not sure, myself; i would pre-fill syringes a few weeks at a time and store in the fridge. They last up to 60 days. If you need it later than that, then keep it in the lyophilized powder form in the vial in a cool, dark place preferably, they last a very long time in this form.

The effect is not so slight. Carbs increase tryptophan and serotonin. both are precursors of melatonin. You know when you eat a big meal ,especially carb heavy, and you get sleepy? That's not some diabetus/insulin resistance problem as people like to throw around. It's due to the increase of those amino acids in the brain involved in sleep/rest cycle AKA Rest/digest or the parasympathetic nervous system. When you are fasted or eating low carb, your body turns on the "fight or flight" AKA Sympathetic nervous system, which means more adrenaline/cortisol, which means poor quality sleep in some instances and even low libido (libido is part of the parasympathetic nervous system which is why guys get morning wood). You can consume your carbs 30 mins-1 hour before bed but you can experiment.

There is not that big of a difference between fasted/non-fasted orals, anecdotally i feel it's absorbed better on an empty stomach myself (key word is "feel"). Some studies on other steroid hormones like Vitamin D, Aromasin, and progesterone show that they are absorbed better with a meal containing fat, so you would think winstrol would be the same, end of the day it doesnt matter much.

I might give the edge to superdrol, it gives you a very strong pump too which makes it look like you are bigger, wherein winstrol can dry you out which also makes it deceptive. I would recommend 12 weeks most of the time, but if you want to go further, as long as you run TUDCA/NAC and avoid alcohol/liver toxic medications and substances and have no history of liver disease like hepatitis or cirrhosis, then i would cap 16 weeks as the absolute maximum. Gains by that point should be incredible if everything else was done correctly.

There is a synergy, but ECY or CCY stack should only be utilized by individual with a lot of experience and high tolerance for stimulants, otherwise it's a recipe for heart attack, panic attack or strokes. Clen and Ephedrine are beta adrenergic receptor agonists or activators, yohimbine is a alpha 2 adrenergic receptor antagonist or block. So they are two different mechanisms. Beta receptors are like the gas pedal for fat loss and Alpha 2 receptors are like the brakes. So you are pushing the gas pedal while taking off the brakes to put it into an analogy.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> When you say sucking out water, do you actually mean it does this or gives the appearance of dryness? (we can all see how dry and firm the muscles certainly feel and look when we are lean enough. Cheers


 It literally makes you drier, it's use as a medication for hereditary angioedema, a condition caused by too much bradykinin ( i think ) a protein that hold a lot of water under the skin. Winstrol cuts this down significantly. You can google it if you are curious.


----------



## Fattynomore

Great thread @El Chapo currently im running ttm and winny whilst cutting.

My future goal is distance running while trying to maintain an athletic build, if I can hold the weight I'm at 14st and between10-15%bf I would be happy for future cycles what would be best, just simple test and winny or you recommend anything else.

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Fattynomore said:


> Great thread @El Chapo currently im running ttm and winny whilst cutting.
> 
> My future goal is distance running while trying to maintain an athletic build, if I can hold the weight I'm at 14st and between10-15%bf I would be happy for future cycles what would be best, just simple test and winny or you recommend anything else.
> 
> Cheers.


 Test P or gel +winstrol is all you need. That's the magic stack for sports performance.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo Any purpose in using insulin pre workout when in a calorie deficit? Have heard some interesting theories regarding building muscle without fat gain on a cut but tbh sounds like it might be bollocks


----------



## kruz

Hi @ElChapo

Would you be so kind as to look over these bloods for me please?

I'm 10 weeks into my 500mg test e cycle. I've just changed the test I was using as my previous bloods came back only at the top end of normal (1200ng/dl or thereabouts). These bloods are 3 weeks into the addition of 50mg winstrol a day and running the new test. Estrogen is a bit high, which is a suprise as no symptoms so I'm starting an AI. The other markers that are out of range, do any of them suggest that it would be wise to end the cycle and go down to a trt dose or are these expected and I just accept them while on and worry about getting them back to baseline when cruising? I was hoping to run this for another 4 to 5 weeks.

Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo Any purpose in using insulin pre workout when in a calorie deficit? Have heard some interesting theories regarding building muscle without fat gain on a cut but tbh sounds like it might be bollocks


 It could increase recovery, maybe it could build muscle with HGH+AAS. (Especially in a beginner/intermediate)

HGH+Insulin+AAS is the stack that created the mutant physiques of the 90s era and beyond bodybuilding scene.

Honestly, bulk/cut cycles are not that bad if you stay fairly lean and do lean bulks. This obsession with building muscle while cutting fat is like spinning wheels. It's the holy grail for everyone.


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate. I am cycling 10 miles a day split over 4 journeys, to work and back and then to the gym and back. Will this hinder progress when the goal is to add muscle? Especially the ride to the gym before training.

Someone told me too much cardio can be detrimental to a bulk how true it is I don't know

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Would you be so kind as to look over these bloods for me please?
> 
> I'm 10 weeks into my 500mg test e cycle. I've just changed the test I was using as my previous bloods came back only at the top end of normal (1200ng/dl or thereabouts). These bloods are 3 weeks into the addition of 50mg winstrol a day and running the new test. Estrogen is a bit high, which is a suprise as no symptoms so I'm starting an AI. The other markers that are out of range, do any of them suggest that it would be wise to end the cycle and go down to a trt dose or are these expected and I just accept them while on and worry about getting them back to baseline when cruising? I was hoping to run this for another 4 to 5 weeks.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> View attachment 177205
> 
> 
> View attachment 177207


 A few things, when you got the 1,200 reading on 500 mg of testosterone, how long were you on that testosterone and how many days after injection did you draw blood?

You don't need AI, as you saw, you had no symptoms. E2 should be high on high testosterone doses. If you have any symptoms, just take 0.5 mg adex per week.

All your labs are perfectly fine except for ferritin. You are anemic and need to increase your iron intake. Are you vegan/vegetarian or had recent blood loss or surgery/injury? You need to bring up ferritin.

Your cholesterol, creatine kinase, and prolactin are okay


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate. I am cycling 10 miles a day split over 4 journeys, to work and back and then to the gym and back. Will this hinder progress when the goal is to add muscle? Especially the ride to the gym before training.
> 
> Someone told me too much cardio can be detrimental to a bulk how true it is I don't know
> 
> Thank you


 There are two ways it can interfere

1. Tiring out your muscles body before you train

2. Increasing calories needed to bulk because you are burning extra energy.

Both issues are easily addressed. For #1/2 IF you stop progressing in your lifts/reps, then you might have to cut back on the cycling and or increase the calories


----------



## kruz

ElChapo said:


> A few things, when you got the 1,200 reading on 500 mg of testosterone, how long were you on that testosterone and how many days after injection did you draw blood?
> 
> You don't need AI, as you saw, you had no symptoms. E2 should be high on high testosterone doses. If you have any symptoms, just take 0.5 mg adex per week.
> 
> All your labs are perfectly fine except for ferritin. You are anemic and need to increase your iron intake. Are you vegan/vegetarian or had recent blood loss or surgery/injury? You need to bring up ferritin.
> 
> Your cholesterol, creatine kinase, and prolactin are okay


 I was on the underdosed test for around 7 to 8 weeks I guess. I pin 150mg subq eod so I would guess the day the blood was drawn on is not so important?

Great on the other values, thanks for the reassurance. The only sides I had been experiencing, was a bit of anxiety. This was in the form worrying that I was negatively and permanently effecting my health in a huge way. Worrying about my heart and my heartrate etc etc. I did dose 25mg Aromasin and whether this was the right thing to do or not, I do feel back to my level headed self today and erection quality has improved

I had been vegetarian for 4 years, then vegan for 2 before giving it all up about 3 or 4 years ago up after I became anemic, funnily enough. My pre cycle bloods had me at 84ug/l so I was surprised to see it drop to 19ug/l. I did give blood 2 or 3 weeks ago as my pre blast hemocrit was at 0.501. I also have O negative blood and also some sort of antibodies that make it extra useful for babies so I do get pestered for my blood by the NHS.

I went out and bought a kilo of liver earlier so I'll have 100grams or so every day for a while, do you think that should be enough? Maybe I'll continue this until the end of the cycle when I next get bloods.

Thanks again for your input on this, I really appreciate the time you out into this thread. I'm slowly reading the whole thread and learning so much.


----------



## Redsy

Mast P Vs Mast E.

I am a convert to test P, for reduced water gain.

Can the same be said for Mast P?


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

Do other milks (almond, goat, soy, etc...) have the same positive effects on raising insulin and IGF-1 as cow's milk? Are they good substitutes?


----------



## Malin

What's the general consensus with Tren as bulker again?

Would you build similar amount of lean muscle mass on cycle of 500 test e 500 tren e compared to 500 test e 500 deca?


----------



## darren.1987

Hi @ElChapo

I am sure i asked before but can find the post on here.

I'm using 200mg test e on cruise dose. I would like to switch to test p.

do I dose it the same or slightly less ie 150mg when using test prop.

Reason I want to switch is as I've seen you say it keeps you drier looking and better feeling overall etc.

can I get away with injecting it monday/Thursday also?

Thanks


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo any issues with doing larger amounts of hgh all at once, in one shot?

Like 4.5 - 5 iu

Oh, and once hgh is reconstituted in bac water, how long is it good for before it starts degrading?


----------



## jj1996

Mate whats your thoughts on deca/npp only cycles? or trt test + high deca/npp cycles?


----------



## Djibril

Hello Chapo,

One question from another guy regarding PCT, he told me to write on his behalf on your thread so here it goes.

He was on for 6 months without hCg during. Used mainly Test C the whole time and he added at some point boldenone-anavar and im not sure about anything else, but he finished it with Sustanon and Var.

He have hCg+nolva+clomid in hand. He took a dose of 3200iu hcg and was planning on running it that high every 3 days along with 10mgs nolva for gyno protection from the hcg then stop it and start clomid.

The question is what PCT do you recommend, i told him he should of have asked that before starting the pct lol


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> I would not cut during surgical recovery. You want at least maintenance if not surplus calories to improve healing time. When we lift and eat, we are repairing damaged muscle.
> 
> Keep it simple, Cardio+Deficit+DNP is enough already and you can add yohimbine or EC stack or clen to that as well.
> 
> HGH can help you stay strong and pumped during a cut and this will start working by week 2 but to start to see big changes in body composition can take 3-6 months.


 Can you see any negative impact on lipids from DNP use?

Cruising at the moment, waiting for my HDL to come in range and stabilize.

Could I cut on 150mg Test E and 200mg DNP without impacting my lipid recovery while "off/crusing".


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> I was on the underdosed test for around 7 to 8 weeks I guess. I pin 150mg subq eod so I would guess the day the blood was drawn on is not so important?
> 
> Great on the other values, thanks for the reassurance. The only sides I had been experiencing, was a bit of anxiety. This was in the form worrying that I was negatively and permanently effecting my health in a huge way. Worrying about my heart and my heartrate etc etc. I did dose 25mg Aromasin and whether this was the right thing to do or not, I do feel back to my level headed self today and erection quality has improved
> 
> I had been vegetarian for 4 years, then vegan for 2 before giving it all up about 3 or 4 years ago up after I became anemic, funnily enough. My pre cycle bloods had me at 84ug/l so I was surprised to see it drop to 19ug/l. I did give blood 2 or 3 weeks ago as my pre blast hemocrit was at 0.501. I also have O negative blood and also some sort of antibodies that make it extra useful for babies so I do get pestered for my blood by the NHS.
> 
> I went out and bought a kilo of liver earlier so I'll have 100grams or so every day for a while, do you think that should be enough? Maybe I'll continue this until the end of the cycle when I next get bloods.
> 
> Thanks again for your input on this, I really appreciate the time you out into this thread. I'm slowly reading the whole thread and learning so much.


 It's possible to have high hematocrit and low ferritin. I see it a few times here and there.

Buy Ferrous sulfate or iron biglycinate and take it with Vitamin C to enhance it's absorption. Do you take any multivitamin?

We need to get your ferritin up, it is severely low. You want to be between 70-90


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Mast P Vs Mast E.
> 
> I am a convert to test P, for reduced water gain.
> 
> Can the same be said for Mast P?


 When i've used it, they "felt" the same and i did not see a difference in water retention. Mast P kicks in faster. Mast is a very mild compound and is limited in it's usefulness. Winstrol blows it out of the water for every single parameter besides liver toxicity/lipids.


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do other milks (almond, goat, soy, etc...) have the same positive effects on raising insulin and IGF-1 as cow's milk? Are they good substitutes?


 No, real milk contains growth factors. Remember, it's supposed to turn a calf into a bull.

"Bovine *milk* and colostrum contain *growth factors* such as insulin-like *growth factor* IGF-I, IGF-II, transforming *growth factor* TGF-β1, TGF-β2, epidermal *growth factor* EGF, basic fibroblast *growth factor* bFGF and platelet-derived *growth factor* PDGF"

The other "milks" are basically just vegetable puree mixed with water. They are not really good substitutes and not as nutritious. This is why they have to be heavily fortified.

Goat milk would be similar to cows milk but i believe they have a different fat/protein ratio.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> What's the general consensus with Tren as bulker again?
> 
> Would you build similar amount of lean muscle mass on cycle of 500 test e 500 tren e compared to 500 test e 500 deca?


 It's great for bulking too. The majority of your gains are going to come from caloric surplus+progressive overload.

Both of those cycles would work great, some guys respond more to one compound over another so you have to experiment. Some people feel great on tren and others feel like hell.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I am sure i asked before but can find the post on here.
> 
> I'm using 200mg test e on cruise dose. I would like to switch to test p.
> 
> do I dose it the same or slightly less ie 150mg when using test prop.
> 
> Reason I want to switch is as I've seen you say it keeps you drier looking and better feeling overall etc.
> 
> can I get away with injecting it monday/Thursday also?
> 
> Thanks


 I would do 200 mg test p. It's almost the same mg per mg, only 20 mg extra of pure testosterone with prop, but you will "feel" it more and not hold as much water.

I do Mon/Thu or Wed/Sat and feel amazing. In fact, for whatever reason, i prefer it to EOD or MWF. Even with Mon/Thu your levels will be high for +85% of the week.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo any issues with doing larger amounts of hgh all at once, in one shot?
> 
> Like 4.5 - 5 iu
> 
> Oh, and once hgh is reconstituted in bac water, how long is it good for before it starts degrading?


 No problem doing it all at once and more convenient than multi dosing. If you want a more steady/sustained release, you can inject SQ. End of the day, results will be the same.

You should use it within 14 days of reconstitution if refrigerated and no more than 24 hours if not refrigerated.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Mate whats your thoughts on deca/npp only cycles? or trt test + high deca/npp cycles?


 DECA/NPP only can work, some people including myself have noticed running 19-nors without testosterone does not negatively effect mood/libido and can have a positive effect. I would still run HCG if fertility or recovery with PCT is a concern.

I had good results experimenting with 150-200 mg tren ace solo.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello Chapo,
> 
> One question from another guy regarding PCT, he told me to write on his behalf on your thread so here it goes.
> 
> He was on for 6 months without hCg during. Used mainly Test C the whole time and he added at some point boldenone-anavar and im not sure about anything else, but he finished it with Sustanon and Var.
> 
> He have hCg+nolva+clomid in hand. He took a dose of 3200iu hcg and was planning on running it that high every 3 days along with 10mgs nolva for gyno protection from the hcg then stop it and start clomid.
> 
> The question is what PCT do you recommend, i told him he should of have asked that before starting the pct lol


 50-100 mg clomid+20 mg nolvadex for 6-8 weeks.

HCG 3,000-5,000 IU the first 2 weeks after your last injection.

Re-test testosterone levels 6-8 weeks after end of PCT, before 10 AM/fasted.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Can you see any negative impact on lipids from DNP use?
> 
> Cruising at the moment, waiting for my HDL to come in range and stabilize.
> 
> Could I cut on 150mg Test E and 200mg DNP without impacting my lipid recovery while "off/crusing".


 Not sure, the length of time DNP is used should not make that a concern. Bad lipids take many years to take their toll on the cardiovascular system, they don't risk your health in the short-term.

If you lose a lot of fat from taking DNP, it can actually have a positive effect on triglyceride levels and other inflammatory markers.

I would not be concerned about negative effect on lipids from DNP, just take 200-250 mg daily, do some cardio, and stick to a 20-30% caloric deficit.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i remember reading that A AS can have a negative impact on joints and tendons, something about it inhibition the collagen synthesis and/or promoting the wrong type of collagen?

Or is this just a myth?


----------



## Rockstar618111

@ElChapo I am running a small 1ml testosterone cycle per week (250mg) I seem to be needing to wee lots , I have no problem with flow etc but seem to empty bladder so much , I wouldn't say I am over drinking water but just amazed how I keep urinating, it's pretty clear and no pain - what could be causing this?


----------



## kruz

ElChapo said:


> It's possible to have high hematocrit and low ferritin. I see it a few times here and there.
> 
> Buy Ferrous sulfate or iron biglycinate and take it with Vitamin C to enhance it's absorption. Do you take any multivitamin?
> 
> We need to get your ferritin up, it is severely low. You want to be between 70-90


 Ok no problem, I'll pick some up today. Yes I take a multi vitamin but it doesn't have any iron in it, because males don't need iron lol.


----------



## Jaling

ElChapo said:


> DECA/NPP only can work, some people including myself have noticed running 19-nors without testosterone does not negatively effect mood/libido and can have a positive effect. I would still run HCG if fertility or recovery with PCT is a concern.
> 
> I had good results experimenting with 150-200 mg tren ace solo.


 How long did you run the tren ace without test?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i remember reading that A AS can have a negative impact on joints and tendons, something about it inhibition the collagen synthesis and/or promoting the wrong type of collagen?
> 
> Or is this just a myth?


 In test tubes (aka in vitro) , yeah sometimes. In real life, it's not usually a problem. The only real risk is guys getting too strong, too fast for their joints to keep up and they tear or sprain something.

This happens worse with guys who try ego lifting on cycle and stacking plates too fast. It's not worth it, increase your weights gradually, use good form, and rest properly between sets and rest days.

If a minor sprain/tear happens, 2 weeks of complete rest should do the job. For more moderate sprain/tears, you may need 3-4 weeks of rest.


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar618111 said:


> @ElChapo I am running a small 1ml testosterone cycle per week (250mg) I seem to be needing to wee lots , I have no problem with flow etc but seem to empty bladder so much , I wouldn't say I am over drinking water but just amazed how I keep urinating, it's pretty clear and no pain - what could be causing this?


 BPH (bening prostatic hypertrophy). Prostate can swell on androgens. Happens in some people more than others depending on genetics and age. It happens to me as well, especially with masteron (dht). The prostate puts pressure on the bladder and sometimes narrows the urethra, making you want to pee more and/or making it harder to pee.

Cialis works for this problem. 5 mg daily is approved by the FDA. As effective as the reference drug tamsulosin aka flomax with the bonus effect of improved circulation/erection strength. Cialis/Tadalafil can be easily source from indian and overseas online pharmacies, some countries like the USA have already started offering cost effective generics too.

Think of the prostate swelling the same way you do gyno from tren/deca/high E2. It's a similar phenomenon.


----------



## ElChapo

kruz said:


> Ok no problem, I'll pick some up today. Yes I take a multi vitamin but it doesn't have any iron in it, because males don't need iron lol.


 I recommend now foods true balance.

I do not recommend a vegan diet unless you supplement multivitamin, iron/zinc, protein and creatine.


----------



## ElChapo

Jaling said:


> How long did you run the tren ace without test?


 A few months, i felt great and erections/libido were excellent. The only problem is cooked lipids and gyno formation. My lipids drop hard after only one or two 50 mg injection. Not a problem short term, but not ideal in the long run.


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo Just another generic one from me.

I have really severe ADD and so my natural dopamine levels are pretty much non-existent

Do AAS increase or decrease natural levels in any way, for example would a 400mg per week dose of test make any difference?

Also I have tried stimulants & N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine in many dosages and they haven't touched me , they also tried a low dose SSRI which I hated as it turned me super aggressive and robot like - I was like Ivan Drago! :lol: is there anything be it over the counter or otherwise that can assist.

Granted it's quite complex, but at the same time they have zero clue on where to begin here!

It's really frustrating, the symptoms are similar in some ways to low T but mainly focus and concentration, which is virtually non-existent. Useful for hyperfocus on certain things but that's about it!


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo Just another generic one from me.
> 
> I have really severe ADD and so my natural dopamine levels are pretty much non-existent
> 
> Do AAS increase or decrease natural levels in any way, for example would a 400mg per week dose of test make any difference?
> 
> Also I have tried stimulants & N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine in many dosages and they haven't touched me , they also tried a low dose SSRI which I hated as it turned me super aggressive and robot like - I was like Ivan Drago! :lol: is there anything be it over the counter or otherwise that can assist.
> 
> Granted it's quite complex, but at the same time they have zero clue on where to begin here!
> 
> It's really frustrating, the symptoms are similar in some ways to low T but mainly focus and concentration, which is virtually non-existent. Useful for hyperfocus on certain things but that's about it!


 As someone with a similar condition, testosterone has helped my focus and motivation as well as work productivity (Test prop 200 mg) per week. Of course, i work in a field i love so this helps immensely with dopamine/focus. Consistent cardiovascular exercise is the other thing that has really helped me with brain fog and concentration issues, and i drink plenty of coffee as well.

There is an optimal dose of testosterone for cogntion/verbal fluency/etc. Too much and too little can have a negative effect per studies done on the subject. I would say the dose is somewhere between TRT and low dose cruise. (100-300 mg) for most people.

SSRI's are poison, some people get on fine with them, but they can lead to weight gain, libido problems and other issues. I recommend wellbutrin (Which works through dopamine instead of serotonin) as you've said, dopamine is excitement, motivation, and real happy chemical in the body. Serotonin is more like contentment but can make some people aggressive. If anything, wellbutrin or modafanil is the type of pharma drug you would want to try. Adderall is also an option.

Have you ever tested TSH/ Free T4/ Free T3 levels? What is your AAS cycle history? Current protocol? Brain fog/poor cognition is a very general symptom that can be cause by make different things.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> As someone with a similar condition, testosterone has helped my focus and motivation as well as work productivity (Test prop 200 mg) per week. Of course, i work in a field i love so this helps immensely with dopamine/focus. Consistent cardiovascular exercise is the other thing that has really helped me with brain fog and concentration issues, and i drink plenty of coffee as well.
> 
> There is an optimal dose of testosterone for cogntion/verbal fluency/etc. Too much and too little can have a negative effect per studies done on the subject. I would say the dose is somewhere between TRT and low dose cruise. (100-300 mg) for most people.
> 
> SSRI's are poison, some people get on fine with them, but they can lead to weight gain, libido problems and other issues. I recommend wellbutrin (Which works through dopamine instead of serotonin) as you've said, dopamine is excitement, motivation, and real happy chemical in the body. Serotonin is more like contentment but can make some people aggressive. If anything, wellbutrin or modafanil is the type of pharma drug you would want to try. Adderall is also an option.
> 
> Have you ever tested TSH/ Free T4/ Free T3 levels? What is your AAS cycle history? Current protocol? Brain fog/poor cognition is a very general symptom that can be cause by make different things.


 Shame the schooling system is 120 years out of date in this country or I could have gone down the route of studying something I enjoyed, god help that in Britain though!

I too spend my life on caffeine, but I guess you also get a pretty minimal effect from it even when you take what would be considered a high dose. For that reason I try and use sparingly to get some kind of small buzz every now and then when really needed, I also do regular cardio as I like to stay lean and healthy.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that I wanted to take AAS purely for the reasons I mention but as I plan to start a Test Prop cycle I was just wondering if there were any benefits so with you having similar issues it couldn't be a more perfect response! The dosage would be 300-400mg too so should fit in to what you mention there.

They certainly had nothing but a negative effect on me, I was only on a small dose for a couple of weeks and I came off for my own safety it really was scary how aggressive I became and the thoughts of violence I was having!

I've never heard of Wellbutrin in all honesty, so I will give that a read up and see if I can source it - I believe it may be given as an aid to stop smoking in extreme cases but not listed for depression etc.

All markers you mention there are in range, all my markers are ok in fact - test levels sit between 25-35 regularly and as for past AAS usage, I haven't taken anything not even pro hormones or supplements of that nature 28 yo.

Thanks as ever for your help EC, if I'm ever in the US I shall stop by with a large coffee!


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Shame the schooling system is 120 years out of date in this country or I could have gone down the route of studying something I enjoyed, god help that in Britain though!
> 
> I too spend my life on caffeine, but I guess you also get a pretty minimal effect from it even when you take what would be considered a high dose. For that reason I try and use sparingly to get some kind of small buzz every now and then when really needed, I also do regular cardio as I like to stay lean and healthy.
> 
> I'm not for one minute suggesting that I wanted to take AAS purely for the reasons I mention but as I plan to start a Test Prop cycle I was just wondering if there were any benefits so with you having similar issues it couldn't be a more perfect response! The dosage would be 300-400mg too so should fit in to what you mention there.
> 
> They certainly had nothing but a negative effect on me, I was only on a small dose for a couple of weeks and I came off for my own safety it really was scary how aggressive I became and the thoughts of violence I was having!
> 
> I've never heard of Wellbutrin in all honesty, so I will give that a read up and see if I can source it - I believe it may be given as an aid to stop smoking in extreme cases but not listed for depression etc.
> 
> All markers you mention there are in range, all my markers are ok in fact - test levels sit between 25-35 regularly and as for past AAS usage, I haven't taken anything not even pro hormones or supplements of that nature 28 yo.
> 
> Thanks as ever for your help EC, if I'm ever in the US I shall stop by with a large coffee!


 I wouldn't run 400 mg long term. 300 mg might be okay, just be diligent with hematocrit/hemoglobin monitoring. Some people feel better cogntion at moderate doses instead of no testosterone or too high testosterone.

Wellbutrin is a classic anti-depressant, you might need to source it from online indian pharma because doctors love to push only SSRIs. Wellbutrin has very few if any side effects and can also help with weight loss and fighting cravings for smoking/alcohol/ and food.

What are your exact Free T4/Free T3 levels? "In range" means absolutely nothing. The range is made up of sick people, so you may be in the sick range.

I also find that eating eggs help cognition, likely due to being one of the richest sources of choline.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't run 400 mg long term. 300 mg might be okay, just be diligent with hematocrit/hemoglobin monitoring. Some people feel better cogntion at moderate doses instead of no testosterone or too high testosterone.
> 
> Wellbutrin is a classic anti-depressant, you might need to source it from online indian pharma because doctors love to push only SSRIs. Wellbutrin has very few if any side effects and can also help with weight loss and fighting cravings for smoking/alcohol/ and food.
> 
> What are your exact Free T4/Free T3 levels? "In range" means absolutely nothing. The range is made up of sick people, so you may be in the sick range.
> 
> I also find that eating eggs help cognition, likely due to being one of the richest sources of choline.


 I run regular medichecks every 3 months or so, despite not taking anything just for own peace of mind - maybe overkill I guess but for the cost it's worthwhile and I do train pretty hard so like to ensure I'm as optimal as I can be for doing so, therefore I'd definitely be doing this should I start an AAS cycle 400mg would be a short term cycle alongside HCG with PCT as you advise, at my age I wouldn't want to B&C just yet.

Perfect, I will get on Google and hunt it down - thanks again I'd have never known to consider that.

Apologies, should have elaborated there - I was meaning in range as far as the blood work I had done Free T4 was 9.6 and T3 6.7 (not sure if that is a real world in range, just said so on the results) noted 3-8 for T3 and 4-11 for T4 as the 'green area'

I'm partial to scrambled eggs on toast every now and then, but again as always I take what you say on board so I will add in more where possible to assist. I eat plenty of salmon too which I believe has fairly decent levels of choline.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> I run regular medichecks every 3 months or so, despite not taking anything just for own peace of mind - maybe overkill I guess but for the cost it's worthwhile and I do train pretty hard so like to ensure I'm as optimal as I can be for doing so, therefore I'd definitely be doing this should I start an AAS cycle 400mg would be a short term cycle alongside HCG with PCT as you advise, at my age I wouldn't want to B&C just yet.
> 
> Perfect, I will get on Google and hunt it down - thanks again I'd have never known to consider that.
> 
> Apologies, should have elaborated there - I was meaning in range as far as the blood work I had done Free T4 was 9.6 and T3 6.7 (not sure if that is a real world in range, just said so on the results) noted 3-8 for T3 and 4-11 for T4 as the 'green area'
> 
> I'm partial to scrambled eggs on toast every now and then, but again as always I take what you say on board so I will add in more where possible to assist. I eat plenty of salmon too which I believe has fairly decent levels of choline.


 Are you sure that's FREE T4? We need to see Free T4 and Free T3.

How is your carb intake? How often do you train? How many rest days do you get?


----------



## zariph

Hello mate would love some suggestion to a test/deca cycle.

Which doses of each compound would you recommend - do you suggest higher test lower deca, higher deca lower test, or just 50/50?

Also do you know why it can be that I got red/red spots and warm near injection spot? Little pip a day after but went away rather quick, but the redness is still there, can you also describe what to look for, for an infection?


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Are you sure that's FREE T4? We need to see Free T4 and Free T3.
> 
> How is your carb intake? How often do you train? How many rest days do you get?


 That's free - our NHS range is Free T3 3.1-6.8 and Free T4 12-22 - medichecks is listed above - carbs are 483g daily and I have 3 rest days per week - Wed, Fri & Sun.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> That's free - our NHS range is Free T3 3.1-6.8 and Free T4 12-22 - medichecks is listed above - carbs are 483g daily and I have 3 rest days per week - Wed, Fri & Sun.


 So your Free T4 is 9 with a range of 12-22? because that explains your issues...


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello mate would love some suggestion to a test/deca cycle.
> 
> Which doses of each compound would you recommend - do you suggest higher test lower deca, higher deca lower test, or just 50/50?
> 
> Also do you know why it can be that I got red/red spots and warm near injection spot? Little pip a day after but went away rather quick, but the redness is still there, can you also describe what to look for, for an infection?


 Dosage depends on goals and experience level with cycles/muscularity. I like same dose for best results, 50/50.

Has this happened to you with a different lab or batch of AAS? When did it start? can you pin point when it started? It could be an allergy to a carrier oil. I need more information all around


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> So your Free T4 is 9 with a range of 12-22? because that explains your issues...


 Sorry it's 4-11 free levels and mine was 9, 12-22 was total got my wires crossed.

Out of interest, what does low T4 cause - I know about T3 but not much out there that's definitive on T4


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Sorry it's 4-11 free levels and mine was 9, 12-22 was total got my wires crossed.
> 
> Out of interest, what does low T4 cause - I know about T3 but not much out there that's definitive on T4


 What's the unit of measurement?

T4 is very important and has it's own important uses. T3 is not the only active hormone.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> What's the unit of measurement?


 Stupid question is T4 thyroxine?!

The unit of measurement was pmol/l if that's the case, in which case it is 12-22 meaning mine was low :confused1:


----------



## Rockstar618111

ElChapo said:


> BPH (bening prostatic hypertrophy). Prostate can swell on androgens. Happens in some people more than others depending on genetics and age. It happens to me as well, especially with masteron (dht). The prostate puts pressure on the bladder and sometimes narrows the urethra, making you want to pee more and/or making it harder to pee.
> 
> Cialis works for this problem. 5 mg daily is approved by the FDA. As effective as the reference drug tamsulosin aka flomax with the bonus effect of improved circulation/erection strength. Cialis/Tadalafil can be easily source from indian and overseas online pharmacies, some countries like the USA have already started offering cost effective generics too.
> 
> Think of the prostate swelling the same way you do gyno from tren/deca/high E2. It's a similar phenomenon.


 Thank you, would the BPH shrink back down on it's on if I drop dose?


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

What's your view on injectable Superdrol? I assume it would have better bioavailability and this should increase the potency, but is the difference between injectable and oral worthwhile?

Is there an effect on absorption and side effects if the injectable oral is water or oil based? For instance, do you find injectable orals don't have the side effect of appetite suppression?

Also, would Superdrol throw off the readings of other markers in a blood test?


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo

Yo mate.

10 week cut coming up and want to use DNP week 2 and week 7-9 (want 1 week to recover before my holiday)

*test p - 175mg*

*tren a - 350mg ( will be dropped on DNP weeks)*

*mast p - 350mg*

*Clen - light dosing *

*Winni/Var - 50mg each (last 6 weeks)*

DNP will stay at 250 and il be adding Sphinx t5 eca stack, vit C, vit E, 3G of Electro water

Will I loose muscle or just fat?

Anything else I need to do?


----------



## myminimuffin

Hey!

I am currently reading through the ama, but i'd like to ask a couple of questions before i continute, im sure they've already been answered but..

I am considering a blast of TRT Testo, and using nand/npp as the main driver. But what would you suggest dosing the deca at? My test TRT is @ 150mg/wk, how much nand/npp to add?

My last blast was 500mg Test E, had good progress but i aromatize heavily so i'd like to try something different.

Also, how long do you suggest cruising?


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Stupid question is T4 thyroxine?!
> 
> The unit of measurement was pmol/l if that's the case, in which case it is 12-22 meaning mine was low :confused1:


 This is why i'm telling you to give me all the details. The first thing to look at with your symptoms are thyroid issues. Just post me the actual labs.


----------



## ElChapo

Rockstar618111 said:


> Thank you, would the BPH shrink back down on it's on if I drop dose?


 Your dose is already pretty low but you can go as low as 100-150 mg. I would have to see your labs. Are you running 250 mg for TRT or cruise and is it UGL or pharma grade?


----------



## TALBOTL

I was looking for my personal email from Medichecks and I can't find it, annoyingly I didn't screenshot and save in to Google photos which is what I normally do - but the below is what you receive from them in respect of T3/T4 (presuming that's thyroxine) as if not I will do a test specifically for this which is only £29, as I know everything else is where it needs to be.

In a couple of weeks, I will test again and give you the whole picture - I appreciate it's no use to you without that.

Based on the below graphic though my T4 was out of range at 9.6 (should be 12-22) but my T3 is fine at 6.7.

I will test and post back shortly, but thanks for pointing that out as I'll be totally honest and I didn't really pay much attention to the Thyroid section.


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's your view on injectable Superdrol? I assume it would have better bioavailability and this should increase the potency, but is the difference between injectable and oral worthwhile?
> 
> Is there an effect on absorption and side effects if the injectable oral is water or oil based? For instance, do you find injectable orals don't have the side effect of appetite suppression?
> 
> Also, would Superdrol throw off the readings of other markers in a blood test?


 Less liver toxicity, much higher bioavailability so you need less. You lose a lot of mg from the first liver pass and that's also what punches your liver in.

Water is usually absorbed a bit faster, higher risk of infection and PIP. In my experience, injectable superdrol has the same sides, but you need less and it's going to be better on your liver.

Superdrol is DHT based, if it could throw off a test, it would probably be a DHT serum test. I don't have data or experience to support this, just a theory.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Yo mate.
> 
> 10 week cut coming up and want to use DNP week 2 and week 7-9 (want 1 week to recover before my holiday)
> 
> *test p - 175mg*
> 
> *tren a - 350mg ( will be dropped on DNP weeks)*
> 
> *mast p - 350mg*
> 
> *Clen - light dosing *
> 
> *Winni/Var - 50mg each (last 6 weeks)*
> 
> DNP will stay at 250 and il be adding Sphinx t5 eca stack, vit C, vit E, 3G of Electro water
> 
> Will I loose muscle or just fat?
> 
> Anything else I need to do?


 I would run the DNP longer. Maybe use it the first 4 weeks as a kick starter or even 6 weeks.

To preserve muscle : Maintain your weights and reps the same in all your lifts. If you bench 225 x 8, you need to keep lifting that much. If you start losing reps/weight, there's a good chance you are losing or will start losing muscle. Strength based training is best for muscle preservation.

Target caloric deficit is 20-30% generally, do some light cardio x 3-6 per week, 20-3o mins to increase fat loss and calories burned.


----------



## ElChapo

myminimuffin said:


> Hey!
> 
> I am currently reading through the ama, but i'd like to ask a couple of questions before i continute, im sure they've already been answered but..
> 
> I am considering a blast of TRT Testo, and using nand/npp as the main driver. But what would you suggest dosing the deca at? My test TRT is @ 150mg/wk, how much nand/npp to add?
> 
> My last blast was 500mg Test E, had good progress but i aromatize heavily so i'd like to try something different.
> 
> Also, how long do you suggest cruising?


 500 mg deca+TRT.

Cruise length depends on a few things, your goals, how harsh your last cycle was, etc. 8-12 weeks minimum is a good rule. If you really want to protect your cardiovascular system, keep your BP+heart rate in good range and make sure to do cardio year round.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> I was looking for my personal email from Medichecks and I can't find it, annoyingly I didn't screenshot and save in to Google photos which is what I normally do - but the below is what you receive from them in respect of T3/T4 (presuming that's thyroxine) as if not I will do a test specifically for this which is only £29, as I know everything else is where it needs to be.
> 
> In a couple of weeks, I will test again and give you the whole picture - I appreciate it's no use to you without that.
> 
> Based on the below graphic though my T4 was out of range at 9.6 (should be 12-22) but my T3 is fine at 6.7.
> 
> I will test and post back shortly, but thanks for pointing that out as I'll be totally honest and I didn't really pay much attention to the Thyroid section.
> 
> View attachment 177339


 This is why i told you to post, you cannot go by ranges. Even your TSH is too high.

The society of clinical endos lowered the target TSH to 3. 3 and over is suspect for hypothyroidism or subclinical hypo. Your Free T4 is pretty low. This can be a reason why you feel the way you do.

Make sure you test before 10 AM and fasted.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> This is why i told you to post, you cannot go by ranges. Even your TSH is too high.
> 
> The society of clinical endos lowered the target TSH to 3. 3 and over is suspect for hypothyroidism or subclinical hypo. Your Free T4 is pretty low. This can be a reason why you feel the way you do.
> 
> Make sure you test before 10 AM and fasted.


 Thanks a lot EC, I will get tested again and post the results.

As I say I would have never linked the two and it wasn't something that ever really cropped up when I was researching either, so thank you.

Also a heads up you mentioned about 8 weeks or so ago about an elderly family friend with a difficult wound taking zinc and vitamin C they have done so religiously at the dosages you advised and it has pretty much healed fully now gradually over that time. You really are an asset to this forum :thumb


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Thanks a lot EC, I will get tested again and post the results.
> 
> As I say I would have never linked the two and it wasn't something that ever really cropped up when I was researching either, so thank you.
> 
> Also a heads up you mentioned about 8 weeks or so ago about an elderly family friend with a difficult wound taking zinc and vitamin C they have done so religiously at the dosages you advised and it has pretty much healed fully now gradually over that time. You really are an asset to this forum :thumb


 Thank you very much for sharing your results on that wound healing stack. It has worked many times for my patients. You made my day with that.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Thank you very much for sharing your results on that wound healing stack. It has worked many times for my patients. You made my day with that.


 Not as happy as you made a 90 year old, who is now up and walking around the house a little after being stuck in an armchair for a few months!

I reallywish we had knowledge like yours over here in the UK on things such as this.


----------



## Jaling

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo Just another generic one from me.
> 
> I have really severe ADD and so my natural dopamine levels are pretty much non-existent
> 
> Do AAS increase or decrease natural levels in any way, for example would a 400mg per week dose of test make any difference?
> 
> Also I have tried stimulants & N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine in many dosages and they haven't touched me , they also tried a low dose SSRI which I hated as it turned me super aggressive and robot like - I was like Ivan Drago! :lol: is there anything be it over the counter or otherwise that can assist.
> 
> Granted it's quite complex, but at the same time they have zero clue on where to begin here!
> 
> It's really frustrating, the symptoms are similar in some ways to low T but mainly focus and concentration, which is virtually non-existent. Useful for hyperfocus on certain things but that's about it!


 You could methamphetamine?

hahah


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i saw a discussion on another forum, and a study they linked, stating that splitting the hgh between two daily shots, bumped up the igf 1 levels a bit. One guy I read about did 2.5 iu morning and night, and had an igf 1 reading of 700.

What's your opinion on that? And does it even make sense to have igf 1 levels ranging from 500 - 700, from a recovery/injury healing point of view?

I read that you talked about 400 ish being the sweet spot, and dangers of too high levels, such as acromegaly


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i saw a discussion on another forum, and a study they linked, stating that splitting the hgh between two daily shots, bumped up the igf 1 levels a bit. One guy I read about did 2.5 iu morning and night, and had an igf 1 reading of 700.
> 
> What's your opinion on that? And does it even make sense to have igf 1 levels ranging from 500 - 700, from a recovery/injury healing point of view?
> 
> I read that you talked about 400 ish being the sweet spot, and dangers of too high levels, such as acromegaly


 Yeah, there's both scientific and anecdotal evidence that multiple daily HGH injections can increase IGF-1 more than once daily. I personally don't do it out of convenience and since my goal is anti-aging, but you can get more bang for your buck with multiple injection a day.

400 ng/mL is as high as i would go long-term and 200s-300s is safer/more natural. 500-700 ng/mL short term for wound healing should be fine. Combined with Zinc+Vitamin C+high protein diet.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo What is an ideal dosage and pin schedule for injectable superdrol? Was thing 20mg M-F for 100mg a week total, how does that sound?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo What is an ideal dosage and pin schedule for injectable superdrol? Was thing 20mg M-F for 100mg a week total, how does that sound?


 100 mg per week is a good dose for injectable, i ran it MWF with good results. EOD/daily isn't too bad either especially if you use the 27 g insulin needles.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

When on a growth phase which values of e2 you aim for? 35-60pg/ml or even more?

For next growth I was thinking to go TestP NPP W HGH HumalinR without AIs, just Nolvadex or Raloxifene, shouldn't I have the maximum growth possible like that?


----------



## Conscript

I've herniated a disc in my lower back, twice, both took about 4 weeks to heal before I could walk properly again.

Are there are supplements or drug protocols that could help repair or strengthen the disc itself that you are aware of?

I can go months with no problems, as if it never happened, dead lifting no problem, then I'll notice my mobility starts to reduce for a few days and pop it goes, or it'll flare up a bit then gradually get better.

This morning I had to sit on the floor, pull my feet towards me, just to put my socks on..


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

Is a small dose of Tren worth adding to a blast for nutrient partitioning benefits and it's ability to sensitise muscles more to IGF-1? Or do you think a standard Testosterone base (or any other AAS) does this well enough?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> When on a growth phase which values of e2 you aim for? 35-60pg/ml or even more?
> 
> For next growth I was thinking to go TestP NPP W HGH HumalinR without AIs, just Nolvadex or Raloxifene, shouldn't I have the maximum growth possible like that?


 I don't recommend using AI unless you are prone to gyno. The higher E2 can improve libido and testosterone benefits. If you use AI, just use a bit starting at 0.5-1 mg per week, never front load your AI, too many guys do this and crash their E2. AI works very fast and if you use too much, your E2 will get nuked right away and take some time to recover.

I know back in the day, i ran letro 2.5 mg daily for gyno. Of course it didn't work and i had never felt so weak in my entire life. Not even exaggerating, i lost 50% on my lifts at the time, zero libido and felt like absolute garbage.

More important than E2 will be your caloric surplus/progressive overload, all this other stuff is just a drop in the bucket.


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> I've herniated a disc in my lower back, twice, both took about 4 weeks to heal before I could walk properly again.
> 
> Are there are supplements or drug protocols that could help repair or strengthen the disc itself that you are aware of?
> 
> I can go months with no problems, as if it never happened, dead lifting no problem, then I'll notice my mobility starts to reduce for a few days and pop it goes, or it'll flare up a bit then gradually get better.
> 
> This morning I had to sit on the floor, pull my feet towards me, just to put my socks on..


 Most important question is how did you herniate your back twice?

The best way to prevent these injuries is using good form and the right amount of weight. You also want to build a very strong core which supports and protects the back. A strong core is like a weightlifting belt, just like a strong grip means you don't need to use straps.

For example ,Straps and weight belts are crutches for weaker cores and weaker grips, but they do have their uses for training when the core/grip gets tired but you want to overload volume on to the other muscles. The point i'm making is that building very strong abs is like wearing a natural weightlifting belt at all times. A lot of our injuries like shoulder impingement and back problems come from muscle imbalances, in these cases anterior delt overtraining and back overtraining respectively. We tend neglect the posterior delts and the abs are hard to train as hard as the back if you don't know how to do it.


----------



## Conscript

ElChapo said:


> Most important question is how did you herniate your back twice?
> 
> The best way to prevent these injuries is using good form and the right amount of weight. You also want to build a very strong core which supports and protects the back. A strong core is like a weightlifting belt, just like a strong grip means you don't need to use straps.
> 
> For example ,Straps and weight belts are crutches for weaker cores and weaker grips, but they do have their uses for training when the core/grip gets tired but you want to overload volume on to the other muscles. The point i'm making is that building very strong abs is like wearing a natural weightlifting belt at all times. A lot of our injuries like shoulder impingement and back problems come from muscle imbalances, in these cases anterior delt overtraining and back overtraining respectively. We tend neglect the posterior delts and the abs are hard to train as hard as the back if you don't know how to do it.


 Thanks for the quick reply.

Well it has been a long ongoing issue. I'm fairly tall (195cm 6'4-5") and I've had issues squatting in the past, like getting stuck under the bar (180kg+) with no spot, then severe back/spine cramping. I'm usually ok with deadlifts. I've had quite a bit of time away from the gym etc about 5 years and it has still worsened.

Both times my back went I was at work, climbing, and had to be taken to hospital, and given physio and drugs.

This has been compounded further by the fact my job involves working at height, and climbing thousands of vertical metres every year, in very cold weather. So I have to wear a harness everyday, which pulls the hips/groin up and the shoulders down.

Also driving over 1400 miles per month in the past as my site location wasn't fixed. Really ruined my back.

So it's a multi factor problem. There was never a serious accident. Lucky escapes..

I bought a book 'back mechanic' by Stuart McGill regarding rehabilitation etc which certainly helps mitigate a potential back 'outbreak'. The 3 x 10 minute walks per day with arm swinging plus core exercises are a must. As Stan Efferding also advocates.

But I also notice that if I let my diet slip, and processed/sugar carbs go unchecked I can almost induce my back problems via inflammation.

I haven't touched hgh or ghrp/ghrh for well over 5 years now and have been considering blasting them to see if they could be of any help.

I'm only 35, and having a serious back injury overshadowing my life really sucks sometimes.

Thanks


----------



## shay1490

Hi I'm currently using 600mg test weekly with 60mg raloxifene everyday to combat minor existing gyno from previous cycle and also using 1mg adex taken on Monday when I pin

however my nipple still gets sore sometimes, shall I up it to 2mg adex a week ?

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is a small dose of Tren worth adding to a blast for nutrient partitioning benefits and it's ability to sensitise muscles more to IGF-1? Or do you think a standard Testosterone base (or any other AAS) does this well enough?


 200 mg is a good low dose with minimal side effects but it can help. This really depends on your experience level, goals and response to trenbolone. (positive and negative)


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> Well it has been a long ongoing issue. I'm fairly tall (195cm 6'4-5") and I've had issues squatting in the past, like getting stuck under the bar (180kg+) with no spot, then severe back/spine cramping. I'm usually ok with deadlifts. I've had quite a bit of time away from the gym etc about 5 years and it has still worsened.
> 
> Both times my back went I was at work, climbing, and had to be taken to hospital, and given physio and drugs.
> 
> This has been compounded further by the fact my job involves working at height, and climbing thousands of vertical metres every year, in very cold weather. So I have to wear a harness everyday, which pulls the hips/groin up and the shoulders down.
> 
> Also driving over 1400 miles per month in the past as my site location wasn't fixed. Really ruined my back.
> 
> So it's a multi factor problem. There was never a serious accident. Lucky escapes..
> 
> I bought a book 'back mechanic' by Stuart McGill regarding rehabilitation etc which certainly helps mitigate a potential back 'outbreak'. The 3 x 10 minute walks per day with arm swinging plus core exercises are a must. As Stan Efferding also advocates.
> 
> But I also notice that if I let my diet slip, and processed/sugar carbs go unchecked I can almost induce my back problems via inflammation.
> 
> I haven't touched hgh or ghrp/ghrh for well over 5 years now and have been considering blasting them to see if they could be of any help.
> 
> I'm only 35, and having a serious back injury overshadowing my life really sucks sometimes.
> 
> Thanks


 You need to make your core stronger if you want to stop all these back injuries and problems. When you lift, specifically deadlift/squats, you need to make sure you are using the valsalva maneveur. When you hold your breath and push against your stomach like when trying to poop for lack of a better example. This engages the abs which support and protect your back.

The #1 exercise for abs/core strength is weighted cable crunches. Like this :






You want to get very strong at these with good form, this will protect your back. Most people have very weak abdominals because they train abs without weight or not at all. This makes the back muscles work harder and they can't handle the heavy loads which leads to spine injuries and issues. I also find that this exercise gives my lower back a good stretch and i feel good afterwards. I haven't had any back issues since training my abs with this exercise and i used to have many low back problems in the past.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> Hi I'm currently using 600mg test weekly with 60mg raloxifene everyday to combat minor existing gyno from previous cycle and also using 1mg adex taken on Monday when I pin
> 
> however my nipple still gets sore sometimes, shall I up it to 2mg adex a week ?
> 
> thanks


 Is the arimidex pharma grade?

You can probably get away with 2 mg adex on 600 mg depending on how much you aromatize. You need to give raloxifene 12 weeks to work it's best.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> I don't recommend using AI unless you are prone to gyno. The higher E2 can improve libido and testosterone benefits. If you use AI, just use a bit starting at 0.5-1 mg per week, never front load your AI, too many guys do this and crash their E2. AI works very fast and if you use too much, your E2 will get nuked right away and take some time to recover.
> 
> I know back in the day, i ran letro 2.5 mg daily for gyno. Of course it didn't work and i had never felt so weak in my entire life. Not even exaggerating, i lost 50% on my lifts at the time, zero libido and felt like absolute garbage.
> 
> More important than E2 will be your caloric surplus/progressive overload, all this other stuff is just a drop in the bucket.


 Is that a bad idea to use Nolvadex or Raloxifene during blasts? Or they will hinder gains?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Is that a bad idea to use Nolvadex or Raloxifene during blasts? Or they will hinder gains?


 On paper, you would think it hinders gains because it lowers IGF-1, but many pro bodybuilders run them without an issue. I don't think it's a big deal. I just wouldn't run SERMs year round for a long time.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> On paper, you would think it hinders gains because it lowers IGF-1, but many pro bodybuilders run them without an issue. I don't think it's a big deal. I just wouldn't run SERMs year round for a long time.


 As always gyno surgery would be the best thing to do....


----------



## Matt83

Conscript said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> Well it has been a long ongoing issue. I'm fairly tall (195cm 6'4-5") and I've had issues squatting in the past, like getting stuck under the bar (180kg+) with no spot, then severe back/spine cramping. I'm usually ok with deadlifts. I've had quite a bit of time away from the gym etc about 5 years and it has still worsened.
> 
> Both times my back went I was at work, climbing, and had to be taken to hospital, and given physio and drugs.
> 
> This has been compounded further by the fact my job involves working at height, and climbing thousands of vertical metres every year, in very cold weather. So I have to wear a harness everyday, which pulls the hips/groin up and the shoulders down.
> 
> Also driving over 1400 miles per month in the past as my site location wasn't fixed. Really ruined my back.
> 
> So it's a multi factor problem. There was never a serious accident. Lucky escapes..
> 
> I bought a book 'back mechanic' by Stuart McGill regarding rehabilitation etc which certainly helps mitigate a potential back 'outbreak'. The 3 x 10 minute walks per day with arm swinging plus core exercises are a must. As Stan Efferding also advocates.
> 
> But I also notice that if I let my diet slip, and processed/sugar carbs go unchecked I can almost induce my back problems via inflammation.
> 
> I haven't touched hgh or ghrp/ghrh for well over 5 years now and have been considering blasting them to see if they could be of any help.
> 
> I'm only 35, and having a serious back injury overshadowing my life really sucks sometimes.
> 
> Thanks


 In a similar situation as you,

Im 36, 6.5ft and 20.5stone and suffer from degenerative disc disease, sciatica and osteoarthritis in the lumbar region of my spine.

The NHS are at a loss when it comes to dealing with lower back problems and once they've ruled out surgery and tried steroid injections they have nothing left to offer apart from pain medication.

I was practically immobile for a year due to pain but through persistence I was able to re-strengthen my core, quads, hams and glutes and today I'm virtually pain free.

If you can't squat without pain then stop doing it. Same goes for deadlifts from the ground. Use leg press or rack pulls instead as it puts less pressure on the lumbar spine. Work your core as often as possible. If you can perform them without pain then iv found reverse hypers to be amazing at targeting the glutes and spinal erectors. You don't need a fancy machine or weight, just lay across a sturdy surface and perform them with body weight only, slow controlled reps and squeeze at the top.

The more you strengthen your core, legs and glutes the less you will suffer from back pain.


----------



## ElChapo

Matt83 said:


> In a similar situation as you,
> 
> Im 36, 6.5ft and 20.5stone and suffer from degenerative disc disease, sciatica and osteoarthritis in the lumbar region of my spine.
> 
> The NHS are at a loss when it comes to dealing with lower back problems and once they've ruled out surgery and tried steroid injections they have nothing left to offer apart from pain medication.
> 
> I was practically immobile for a year due to pain but through persistence I was able to re-strengthen my core, quads, hams and glutes and today I'm virtually pain free.
> 
> If you can't squat without pain then stop doing it. Same goes for deadlifts from the ground. Use leg press or rack pulls instead as it puts less pressure on the lumbar spine. Work your core as often as possible. If you can perform them without pain then iv found reverse hypers to be amazing at targeting the glutes and spinal erectors. You don't need a fancy machine or weight, just lay across a sturdy surface and perform them with body weight only, slow controlled reps and squeeze at the top.
> 
> The more you strengthen your core, legs and glutes the less you will suffer from back pain.


 Personally i have found quad/ham extension to be superior for building leg mass. For overall strength/athleticism squats are better.

A weak core is one of the main causes of human low back issues.


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> Personally i have found quad/ham extension to be superior for building leg mass. For overall strength/athleticism squats are better.
> 
> A weak core is one of the main causes of human low back issues.


 Extensions for me as well for size


----------



## Johnsmith1980

@ElChapo the ultimate mass stack money no object and diet and training on point what would it look like?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, there's both scientific and anecdotal evidence that multiple daily HGH injections can increase IGF-1 more than once daily. I personally don't do it out of convenience and since my goal is anti-aging, but you can get more bang for your buck with multiple injection a day.
> 
> 400 ng/mL is as high as i would go long-term and 200s-300s is safer/more natural. 500-700 ng/mL short term for wound healing should be fine. Combined with Zinc+Vitamin C+high protein diet.


 Just out of curiosity, do you know how much more of an increase in igf 1 one might expect from splitting the dose?

Say if 4 iu once a day gave 400 ish igf 1, what could you expect from 2 iu am and 2 iu pm?


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo the ultimate mass stack money no object and diet and training on point what would it look like?


 Eh, AAS+Insulin+GH w/ progressive overload+calories. That's it.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you know how much more of an increase in igf 1 one might expect from splitting the dose?
> 
> Say if 4 iu once a day gave 400 ish igf 1, what could you expect from 2 iu am and 2 iu pm?


 It's pretty significant, i've seen up to 50% higher IGF-1 but it varies.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> It's pretty significant, i've seen up to 50% higher IGF-1 but it varies.


 Sweet Jesus that's insane


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> It's pretty significant, i've seen up to 50% higher IGF-1 but it varies.


 Wow. Really interested in this.

I've been using 4iu at bedtime...... generally whilst in a TRT dose. I drop it when I cycle and increase dose.

So if I use 4iu on m/w/f......would I be better using 2iu am and pm on m/w/f .


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Wow. Really interested in this.
> 
> I've been using 4iu at bedtime...... generally whilst in a TRT dose. I drop it when I cycle and increase dose.
> 
> So if I use 4iu on m/w/f......would I be better using 2iu am and pm on m/w/f .


 You have to experiment, M/W/F naturally has a lower chance of giving you the max IGF-1 increase versus x 2 daily / 7 days per week. The IGF-1 seems to go higher when levels are steadier


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> You have to experiment, M/W/F naturally has a lower chance of giving you the max IGF-1 increase versus x 2 daily / 7 days per week. The IGF-1 seems to go higher when levels are steadier


 Seems pretty logical too, having a continuous stream of HGH in the body demanding IGF 1 production nonstop


----------



## y2_dyc

@El Chapo Hi El Chapo, i'm trying to research the effects of T3 with the use of Tren. There seem's to be some 'bro' chat about the synergistic effects they have together based on people's experiences, but have yet to find any studies. Could you enlighten me with your knowledge  I'm currently taking 50mcg of pharma T3 alongside 600mg test/400mg tren. But i have concerns of appearing flat. Is there benefits/sweet spot that you've found with regards to T3 dosing.

If we take out any consideration for the cost of T3, is it something that you'd run with a test/tren cycle. And for what reasons if its a yes or no?

Thanks for your time as always!


----------



## Johnsmith1980

ElChapo said:


> Eh, AAS+Insulin+GH w/ progressive overload+calories. That's it.


 @ElChapo what would be your go 2 AAS for the above?


----------



## ElChapo

y2_dyc said:


> @El Chapo Hi El Chapo, i'm trying to research the effects of T3 with the use of Tren. There seem's to be some 'bro' chat about the synergistic effects they have together based on people's experiences, but have yet to find any studies. Could you enlighten me with your knowledge  I'm currently taking 50mcg of pharma T3 alongside 600mg test/400mg tren. But i have concerns of appearing flat. Is there benefits/sweet spot that you've found with regards to T3 dosing.
> 
> If we take out any consideration for the cost of T3, is it something that you'd run with a test/tren cycle. And for what reasons if its a yes or no?
> 
> Thanks for your time as always!


 Not at all, T3 is overrated. Yes, it's possible you will be flat. T3 increases nitrogen and glycogen turnover aka how quickly your body breaks it down. This makes you flatter because having nitrogen/glycogen stores topped off makes you pumped. It can also increase hunger and decrease strength/endurance.

There's a reason you don't see guys running T3 as often as you used to.


----------



## ElChapo

Johnsmith1980 said:


> @ElChapo what would be your go 2 AAS for the above?


 I'm partial to test p+winstrol or sdrol for the dry lean gains and strength increase. I'm sensitive to gyno so npp/tren i don't like them as much. Everyone responds differently to certain compounds. I've had my best results with the 3 above.


----------



## MrGRoberts

@El Chapo

have you ever tried injecting TRT sub-q? 
is there any cons compared to intramuscular? 
what about testosterone gel? Does it give the same effects as injecting?

thanks


----------



## kruz

MrGRoberts said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> have you ever tried injecting TRT sub-q?
> is there any cons compared to intramuscular? Thanks


 Following this because I only inject sub-q, either on TRT/cruise or blasting


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> have you ever tried injecting TRT sub-q?
> is there any cons compared to intramuscular?
> what about testosterone gel? Does it give the same effects as injecting?
> 
> thanks


 Not a fan, there is no benefit. Usually takes higher mg to get certain serum level, higher risk of PIP with SQ. The only benefit is slower absorption but x 2 weekly IM will already provide extremely stable serum levels with cyp/enanthate. If prop goes SQ, it hurts like hell.

There's a reason it says "intramuscular use" only. Muscle has richer blood supply so absorption/bioavailability is superior.

Testosterone gel is quite different in a few ways. Half-life is a few hours so it must be taken daily. DHT increase from gels/creams is significantly higher than with injections, especially with scrotal application. The gels/creams can work great for a lot of people, but it's easy to get on family like wife/kids and can be inconvenient for people with the daily routine.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Hello mate

Been reading so much about inflammation and seeing more and more relevant studies. Even now some showing how inflammation plays a role in major mental health disorders.

I want to maximise anything I can do, both activity, life and supplement wise, to reduce/help inflammation.

what can you kindly suggest?

(Brands would be helpful or specific substances to look for within supplements).

Thank you.


----------



## Hosi

@ElChapo

I'm a big fan of your knowledge and I would like to ask about some things:

1. How important is potassium in supplementation when building lean mass, and how much should be used?

2. Do you have any alternatives to cialis? I am currently on a cycle with 500 test e and 50 winstrol and I wonder if my problems with errection will go away with lowering the test dose after cycle or maybe it is worth investing in a longer treatment - what is your opinion?


----------



## godsgifttoearth

so all this chatter about superdrol has peaked my curiosity. how much of it is water held in the muscle vs actual lean mass accretion? im done with ballooning up with water and making more stretch marks on my stretch marks


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hello mate
> 
> Been reading so much about inflammation and seeing more and more relevant studies. Even now some showing how inflammation plays a role in major mental health disorders.
> 
> I want to maximise anything I can do, both activity, life and supplement wise, to reduce/help inflammation.
> 
> what can you kindly suggest?
> 
> (Brands would be helpful or specific substances to look for within supplements).
> 
> Thank you.


 The major things would be staying lean (fat secretes inflammatory cytokines/increases whole body inflammation), doing regular cardiovascular exercise, no smoking or and only light drinking/no drinking.

Curcumin is a potent anti-inflammatory compound proven by tons of research, Meriva and longvida are both good with fatty meals. Pycnogenol can reduce oxidation and improve blood flow.

As with most things, inflammation is only piece of the puzzle to mental health and likely not an overtly significant one. Genetics, lifestyle and your way of thinking are more significant overall. Stoic philosophy is one of the best ways to train your mind to deal with adversity, challenge, and negativity, some genetics make you naturally more susceptible to stress or make you produce less dopamine/serotonin than normal, and if you don't get enough sleep, exercise, or get the right vitamins/minerals, this can predispose you to depression/anxiety. Vitamin D is a very common deficiency.


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I'm a big fan of your knowledge and I would like to ask about some things:
> 
> 1. How important is potassium in supplementation when building lean mass, and how much should be used?
> 
> 2. Do you have any alternatives to cialis? I am currently on a cycle with 500 test e and 50 winstrol and I wonder if my problems with errection will go away with lowering the test dose after cycle or maybe it is worth investing in a longer treatment - what is your opinion?


 1. Not very important at all. You should get trace amounts from dairy products, meats, potatos and other foods.

2. Are you using any estrogen blockers or aromatase inhibitors?


----------



## ElChapo

godsgifttoearth said:


> so all this chatter about superdrol has peaked my curiosity. how much of it is water held in the muscle vs actual lean mass accretion? im done with ballooning up with water and making more stretch marks on my stretch marks


 It's a very dry compound, but it pumps you up. The pump comes from increased nitrogen and glycogen in the muscle. If you want to stay lean/dry and build clean mass, stick to test prop, winstrol, superdrol, tren and maybe npp. Keep your caloric deficit light-moderate around 250-300 but never past 500 calories. Never go over 15% bodyfat at anytime of the year. Stay in the 8-15% range during cut/bulk/maintenance.


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> 1. Not very important at all. You should get trace amounts from dairy products, meats, potatos and other foods.
> 
> 2. Are you using any estrogen blockers or aromatase inhibitors?


 1. So what according to you is a main factor to build lean mass on keto- my question related to potassium was related to keto diet and difference between carbs and fats. According to some bro-tuber main factor on keto is to stay high on potassium.
2. I use IA-Letrozole ( 2,5 mg/ week) what have inpact to libido. I use hcg 1500iu/ week.


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> 1. So what according to you is a main factor to build lean mass on keto- my question related to potassium was related to keto diet and difference between carbs and fats. According to some bro-tuber main factor on keto is to stay high on potassium.
> 2. I use IA-Letrozole ( 2,5 mg/ week) what have inpact to libido. I use hcg 1500iu/ week.


 1. Keto is trash. You need carbs for optimal performance and aesthetics.

2. Are you taking any testosterone?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> 1. Keto is trash. You need carbs for optimal performance and aesthetics.
> 
> 2. Are you taking any testosterone?


 Is there any truth to the whole avoid/reduce carbs if trying to lose fat?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Is there any truth to the whole avoid/reduce carbs if trying to lose fat?


 Absolutely not. It's bullshit. Fat loss is 100% caloric deficit, period.


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> 1. Keto is trash. You need carbs for optimal performance and aesthetics.
> 
> 2. Are you taking any testosterone?


 1. I agree that for building mass keto is a trash, but what if I only want to maintain my mass on keto? 
I'm not a keto fan but it seems to be good solution for me ( I eat less than I should, almost don't feel hungry) because meals are smaller and with 2 meals I can cover my daily kcal.

2. I use testosteron enan 500 mg/ ml, 50 mg winstrol, 2,5 mg letrozole, 1500 hcg.

Training : powerbuilding with progression every session (hypertrophy focused ).


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo started using 20mg nolvadex to reduce a small gyno lump whilst on cruise dose of 200mg test e per week.

iv been using nolva only 5 days so far and have started to get bad facial flushing/redness especially when i have eaten food, I have read this can be a common side effect of nolvadex use?

is there any way to stop this?

or could it be possibly high e2 related?

I'm getting bloods done to check oestrogen levels soon, but I found my appetite dropped significantly and i got dry skin always after I used 3.1mg of aromasin on injection day.

haven't had that since I stopped the aromasin.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> The major things would be staying lean (fat secretes inflammatory cytokines/increases whole body inflammation), doing regular cardiovascular exercise, no smoking or and only light drinking/no drinking.
> 
> Curcumin is a potent anti-inflammatory compound proven by tons of research, Meriva and longvida are both good with fatty meals. Pycnogenol can reduce oxidation and improve blood flow.
> 
> As with most things, inflammation is only piece of the puzzle to mental health and likely not an overtly significant one. Genetics, lifestyle and your way of thinking are more significant overall. Stoic philosophy is one of the best ways to train your mind to deal with adversity, challenge, and negativity, some genetics make you naturally more susceptible to stress or make you produce less dopamine/serotonin than normal, and if you don't get enough sleep, exercise, or get the right vitamins/minerals, this can predispose you to depression/anxiety. Vitamin D is a very common deficiency.


 Re pycegenol is it a case of oxidants like cigarette smoke promote inflammation so anti-oxidants indirectly also help inflammation by neutralising oxidants. ( obvs not saying it will neutralise risk of smoking was just talking oxidants im general).


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> 1. I agree that for building mass keto is a trash, but what if I only want to maintain my mass on keto?
> I'm not a keto fan but it seems to be good solution for me ( I eat less than I should, almost don't feel hungry) because meals are smaller and with 2 meals I can cover my daily kcal.
> 
> 2. I use testosteron enan 500 mg/ ml, 50 mg winstrol, 2,5 mg letrozole, 1500 hcg.
> 
> Training : powerbuilding with progression every session (hypertrophy focused ).


 Still garbage for health/performance. Carbs keep your muscles full, your leptin high (satiety hormone), T3 levels higher/better thyroid function, better sleep/mood/libido, etc. There are many physiological reasons to keep carb intake at least moderate during bulk/cut/maintenance. Use intermittent fasting instead to improve dietary compliance during maintenance/cuts.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo started using 20mg nolvadex to reduce a small gyno lump whilst on cruise dose of 200mg test e per week.
> 
> iv been using nolva only 5 days so far and have started to get bad facial flushing/redness especially when i have eaten food, I have read this can be a common side effect of nolvadex use?
> 
> is there any way to stop this?
> 
> or could it be possibly high e2 related?
> 
> I'm getting bloods done to check oestrogen levels soon, but I found my appetite dropped significantly and i got dry skin always after I used 3.1mg of aromasin on injection day.
> 
> haven't had that since I stopped the aromasin.


 Probably a side effect that you get due to genetics, pretty rare and haven't heard of it. Have you checked BP? Personally would not be concerned with it myself, but you can try raloxifene instead, it's more mild in the side effects department. Is this pharma grade nolvadex? I've had similar side effects from too much letrozole.

Nolvadex does not lower/increase estrogen levels. (there may be a slight real increase) It may make your estrogen levels appear higher in a test. Aromasin won't work for real gyno, it can only prevent it from happening if high E2 is the cause. It's not high E2 by itself but also genetics, igf-1 levels and other things that lead to gyno.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Re pycegenol is it a case of oxidants like cigarette smoke promote inflammation so anti-oxidants indirectly also help inflammation by neutralising oxidants. ( obvs not saying it will neutralise risk of smoking was just talking oxidants im general).


 It is a mild anti-inflammatory as well, but curcumin is more potent for that effect.


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> Probably a side effect that you get due to genetics, pretty rare and haven't heard of it. Have you checked BP? Personally would not be concerned with it myself, but you can try raloxifene instead, it's more mild in the side effects department. Is this pharma grade nolvadex? I've had similar side effects from too much letrozole.
> 
> Nolvadex does not lower/increase estrogen levels. (there may be a slight real increase) It may make your estrogen levels appear higher in a test. Aromasin won't work for real gyno, it can only prevent it from happening if high E2 is the cause. It's not high E2 by itself but also genetics, igf-1 levels and other things that lead to gyno.


 Thanks, yeah it's pharma grade nolvadex. I read the leaflet and says more than 1 in 10 people can get facial flushing from it.

as it's the only variable that changed recently I'm assuming it's down to nolva?

I will check my BP at doctors but it's never been high even when on cycle.

As I'm using only 200mg test e on cruise I only used a small amount of aromasin till I get bloods to confirm test/e2 level (and hopefully don't crash estrogen too low in the meantime)

I'm not holding water/sensitive nipples gaining body fat or have any other high e2 signs.. I do have cracking wrist joints, dry lips and skin so more low e2 related in fact.

I'm aware nolvadex doesn't lower e2 but it was to see if it can shrink the pre existing small gyno lump which I got because of Anadrol. :angry:


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo I dont think im lean enough to use the 29g pins to jab my delts (not sure it will go deep enough into the muscle) I want to test it, but if it doesnt go in deep enough and goes subq would this be a risk for infection or ill be ok? thanks


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> Thanks, yeah it's pharma grade nolvadex. I read the leaflet and says more than 1 in 10 people can get facial flushing from it.
> 
> as it's the only variable that changed recently I'm assuming it's down to nolva?
> 
> I will check my BP at doctors but it's never been high even when on cycle.
> 
> As I'm using only 200mg test e on cruise I only used a small amount of aromasin till I get bloods to confirm test/e2 level (and hopefully don't crash estrogen too low in the meantime)
> 
> I'm not holding water/sensitive nipples gaining body fat or have any other high e2 signs.. I do have cracking wrist joints, dry lips and skin so more low e2 related in fact.
> 
> I'm aware nolvadex doesn't lower e2 but it was to see if it can shrink the pre existing small gyno lump which I got because of Anadrol. :angry:


 It will shrink/reverse the gyno after 8-12 weeks. Pretty much guaranteed.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo I dont think im lean enough to use the 29g pins to jab my delts (not sure it will go deep enough into the muscle) I want to test it, but if it doesnt go in deep enough and goes subq would this be a risk for infection or ill be ok? thanks


 Are they 1/2 inch? 27-29 gauge is 1/2 inch is good. Just hold the syringe for 20-30 seconds after injecting to stop it from coming back out. SQ injections of enanthate/cyp only lead to PIP in certain people, but propionate is very likely to PIP SQ. No you won't get an infection due to this, it just hurts like hell.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Are they 1/2 inch? 27-29 gauge is 1/2 inch is good. Just hold the syringe for 20-30 seconds after injecting to stop it from coming back out. SQ injections of enanthate/cyp only lead to PIP in certain people, but propionate is very likely to PIP SQ. No you won't get an infection due to this, it just hurts like hell.


 Yes 1/2 inch, ok thanks ill just apply more pressure and hope it stays in lol


----------



## jj1996

If someone has done a 500 test 300 npp cycle and want to go back to a test only cycle, what does is an upgrade so to speak? 1000mg? seems alot


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate, I know your a fan of running orals for longer. What dose would you recommend running dbol at for 8-12 weeks? Is 50mg pushing it


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> If someone has done a 500 test 300 npp cycle and want to go back to a test only cycle, what does is an upgrade so to speak? 1000mg? seems alot


 Sure, that would make sense, or 500 mg testosterone+a medium dose oral for 8-12 weeks. You could use an injectable oral as well.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate, I know your a fan of running orals for longer. What dose would you recommend running dbol at for 8-12 weeks? Is 50mg pushing it


 50 mg is the standard dose.


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Guys, didn't want to open a new topic for this one..

I'm curious, after 2 years I finally nailed my AI dose to make me feel awesome..

At 400mg prop I need to use 1/4 letro Eod to keep me on the upper side of Normal range, In wich I feel gr8..

Now, I want to add EQ or NPP in the equation, problem with nandrolone is I don't want to risk libido loss, I know all about caber etc etc, but as we all know it's not only prolactin that causes problems, it's the conversion to DHN wich has greater binding affinity than DHT, so in some cases even with caber libido can get plummet. If anyone has any more imput it would be appreciated.

Thing I wanted to ask is following, if I add 300mg EQ pw, how much would you rise AI dose, as I'm on upper normal and if I get over I get gyno, if I'm too low I feel like s**t.. I was thinking as I take 400 prop, and if I add 300mg eq it would be the same as If I added 130mg test, cca, if we take lower aromarisation in equation, so, if it's same as I added 30ish percent more rest, would 30 percent more AI be logical, so if it's 1/4 or 0.625mg eod on spot, would 0.8125 be logical, or 1/6 of a tab.. Might sound silly but If I go over normal range I get gyno instantly, and if I crush it down, my libido takes a massive hit.. Tnx

BTW, here is how I look

Lifting for three years now


----------



## GMme

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate, I know your a fan of running orals for longer. What dose would you recommend running dbol at for 8-12 weeks? Is 50mg pushing it


 got some red faced friends that run 80mg a day.... thats getting towards pushing it. 50's fine


----------



## aftermath

Hello EC, I'm thinking of running a 16 week 500mg test e cycle alongside with 2iu of HGH, 30iu Lantus, and 50mcg T3 daily.

What's the longest that I can run the Lantus without adverse health effects? Similarly, do you think the T3 can be run throughout?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Guys, didn't want to open a new topic for this one..
> 
> I'm curious, after 2 years I finally nailed my AI dose to make me feel awesome..
> 
> At 400mg prop I need to use 1/4 letro Eod to keep me on the upper side of Normal range, In wich I feel gr8..
> 
> Now, I want to add EQ or NPP in the equation, problem with nandrolone is I don't want to risk libido loss, I know all about caber etc etc, but as we all know it's not only prolactin that causes problems, it's the conversion to DHN wich has greater binding affinity than DHT, so in some cases even with caber libido can get plummet. If anyone has any more imput it would be appreciated.
> 
> Thing I wanted to ask is following, if I add 300mg EQ pw, how much would you rise AI dose, as I'm on upper normal and if I get over I get gyno, if I'm too low I feel like s**t.. I was thinking as I take 400 prop, and if I add 300mg eq it would be the same as If I added 130mg test, cca, if we take lower aromarisation in equation, so, if it's same as I added 30ish percent more rest, would 30 percent more AI be logical, so if it's 1/4 or 0.625mg eod on spot, would 0.8125 be logical, or 1/6 of a tab.. Might sound silly but If I go over normal range I get gyno instantly, and if I crush it down, my libido takes a massive hit.. Tnx
> 
> BTW, here is how I look
> 
> Lifting for three years now
> 
> View attachment 177655


 EQ does not aromatize much. Neitiher does NPP, but NPP has progestin effects on receptors, this is why it has strange effects on libido and gyno. Some female birth controls are actually made from Nandrolone as the precursor.

I would use winstrol or superdrol instead, very powerful compounds and no worry of aromatization or gyno.

EQ is pretty mild and at 300 mg you aren't going to see much effect. NPP is gyno fuel in susceptible individuals. Up to you.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Hello EC, I'm thinking of running a 16 week 500mg test e cycle alongside with 2iu of HGH, 30iu Lantus, and 50mcg T3 daily.
> 
> What's the longest that I can run the Lantus without adverse health effects? Similarly, do you think the T3 can be run throughout?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 What's your cycle experience?


----------



## Djibril

How is the hair loss with certain compounds happening. I mean do you see lot of your hair thinning or your forehead get bigger ? Lol

Ive had receding hairline last few years and im not sure if since i started winnie a couple weeks ago my forehead has gotten bigger and my temples have started to receed even more.

If thats happening is there a way to reverse it or stop it from worsening?

Nizoral shampoo- finasteride? even though the later scare me and i dont like the sound of the sides it can bring


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> How is the hair loss with certain compounds happening. I mean do you see lot of your hair thinning or your forehead get bigger ? Lol
> 
> Ive had receding hairline last few years and im not sure if since i started winnie a couple weeks ago my forehead has gotten bigger and my temples have started to receed even more.
> 
> If thats happening is there a way to reverse it or stop it from worsening?
> 
> Nizoral shampoo- finasteride? even though the later scare me and i dont like the sound of the sides it can bring


 It's a gradual process, temple and sometimes crown begin to thin out and eventually stop growing completely. It starts almost as a horseshoe shape pattern, genetics dictate if you lose temples or temples+crown, and how fast it happens/how young you are.

Nizoral 2% MUST be used for at least 6 months if you want to see the real results. Its very effective, works best the earlier you start it and can reverse some hair loss/thinning.

Don't recommend finasteride most of the time and it will only work for testosterone or a non-AAS user. It can have negative mental and sexual effects. There is a small percentage of people who claim to use it without issue. Nizoral is very effective but people are too impatient so they dont think it works, same with nolva/ralox for gyno. No systemic effects either.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> It's a gradual process, temple and sometimes crown begin to thin out and eventually stop growing completely. It starts almost as a horseshoe shape pattern, genetics dictate if you lose temples or temples+crown, and how fast it happens/how young you are.
> 
> Nizoral 2% MUST be used for at least 6 months if you want to see the real results. Its very effective, works best the earlier you start it and can reverse some hair loss/thinning.
> 
> Don't recommend finasteride most of the time and it will only work for testosterone or a non-AAS user. It can have negative mental and sexual effects. There is a small percentage of people who claim to use it without issue. Nizoral is very effective but people are too impatient so they dont think it works, same with nolva/ralox for gyno. No systemic effects either.


 Thanks a lot. I will start Monday morning with ketocozanole forever lol.

Would you recommend stopping winstrol or ketocozanole would work right away for avoiding further loss?


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> What's your cycle experience?


 I'm 30, 5'9, 80kg, approx 10-12% bf.

I've ran the basic test cycles, test + oral/19 nor combos for 10-12 weeks each. Doses have always been rather conservative around 300 - 500mg test (1:1 for 19 nors) and not more than 50mg of any oral, just to learn how my body reacts with each cycle. I use time off = time on + pct approach and always have pre cycle bloods done. I'm not done having kids but once I am (maybe in 3-5 years time) I will likely hop on b&c.

With this cycle, I'm hoping to add on some quality muscle by targeting the different growth pathways via AAS + slin + GH at low/moderate doses but for a longer period of 16-20 weeks. T3 at 50mcg ed to help keep the fat gain to a minimum (recomp will be a plus).

Look forward to your thoughts on this!


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

ElChapo said:


> EQ does not aromatize much. Neitiher does NPP, but NPP has progestin effects on receptors, this is why it has strange effects on libido and gyno. Some female birth controls are actually made from Nandrolone as the precursor.
> 
> I would use winstrol or superdrol instead, very powerful compounds and no worry of aromatization or gyno.
> 
> EQ is pretty mild and at 300 mg you aren't going to see much effect. NPP is gyno fuel in susceptible individuals. Up to you.


 But Im 20 weeks out, oh, and I have acid reflux problems, I don't use orals, ever, I once did winny for 6weeks, I can handle tren, I don't have much experience with compounds, my coach advised to use something and gave me a choice between EQ and NPP to run for 12weeks, I know it's short for EQ, but I knwk about libido issues with NPP, although I had none with tren, I was using 0.25mg caber e5d with tren tho.. Might go NPP route as we'll, but I know that caber and prolactin dopamine etc are only one piece of puzzle, don't want to end up chewing viagra to even get a boner ?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo I was reading a thread regarding HGH and hand/skull/jaw size increase. Would you say there is a risk of unwanted growth in these areas, from long term use of HGH in the 3-4 iu range?

I was thinking of eventually lowering the dose to 3 iu and then staying there permanently

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/hgh-skull-jaw-hand-foot-growth.134388758/


----------



## rmay09

@El Chapo what's your view on different esters making a notable difference in estrogen conversion, more so for those are estro/gyno sensitive.

through picking bits of info from various threads it sounds like for example test prop vs test e would potentially bring a lower estrogen conversion. I understand the element that test e would be in your system longer therefore test in your system longer gives it a longer chance to convert, however from a total amount of test per week like for like how would this stack up.

for example Say 500mg of test e a week vs 350mg of test e & 150mg test prop a week (spread over 2/3 shots) would the fact part of the total test is prop be considered less likely to aromatise/cause estro problems but still yield as good of a results?


----------



## aaron118

ElChapo said:


> It's a gradual process, temple and sometimes crown begin to thin out and eventually stop growing completely. It starts almost as a horseshoe shape pattern, genetics dictate if you lose temples or temples+crown, and how fast it happens/how young you are.
> 
> Nizoral 2% MUST be used for at least 6 months if you want to see the real results. Its very effective, works best the earlier you start it and can reverse some hair loss/thinning.
> 
> Don't recommend finasteride most of the time and it will only work for testosterone or a non-AAS user. It can have negative mental and sexual effects. There is a small percentage of people who claim to use it without issue. Nizoral is very effective but people are too impatient so they dont think it works, same with nolva/ralox for gyno. No systemic effects either.


 How often should Nizoral be applied weekly?


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Thanks a lot. I will start Monday morning with ketocozanole forever lol.
> 
> Would you recommend stopping winstrol or ketocozanole would work right away for avoiding further loss?


 It depends, how long were you going to run winstrol? Are you in the middle of a cycle or at the end?


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> I'm 30, 5'9, 80kg, approx 10-12% bf.
> 
> I've ran the basic test cycles, test + oral/19 nor combos for 10-12 weeks each. Doses have always been rather conservative around 300 - 500mg test (1:1 for 19 nors) and not more than 50mg of any oral, just to learn how my body reacts with each cycle. I use time off = time on + pct approach and always have pre cycle bloods done. I'm not done having kids but once I am (maybe in 3-5 years time) I will likely hop on b&c.
> 
> With this cycle, I'm hoping to add on some quality muscle by targeting the different growth pathways via AAS + slin + GH at low/moderate doses but for a longer period of 16-20 weeks. T3 at 50mcg ed to help keep the fat gain to a minimum (recomp will be a plus).
> 
> Look forward to your thoughts on this!


 Drop the T3, it's crap. Bump GH to 4 IU, 3-4 hours before bedtime SQ in the abdomen.

Add winstrol 50 mg, add a 19-nor (300 mg short ester or 500 mg long), instead of lantus, follow a basic short acting insulin protocol with your meals.

Run TUDCA/NAC and run the winstrol 8-16 weeks. Results should be insane if you eat and train right.


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> But Im 20 weeks out, oh, and I have acid reflux problems, I don't use orals, ever, I once did winny for 6weeks, I can handle tren, I don't have much experience with compounds, my coach advised to use something and gave me a choice between EQ and NPP to run for 12weeks, I know it's short for EQ, but I knwk about libido issues with NPP, although I had none with tren, I was using 0.25mg caber e5d with tren tho.. Might go NPP route as we'll, but I know that caber and prolactin dopamine etc are only one piece of puzzle, don't want to end up chewing viagra to even get a boner ?


 Caber could possibly work for NPP libido issues+cialis for erections.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I was reading a thread regarding HGH and hand/skull/jaw size increase. Would you say there is a risk of unwanted growth in these areas, from long term use of HGH in the 3-4 iu range?
> 
> I was thinking of eventually lowering the dose to 3 iu and then staying there permanently
> 
> https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/hgh-skull-jaw-hand-foot-growth.134388758/


 For most people no, that would get you into 300-400 ng/mL for IGF-1.

3 IU would get you in the range of a 18-21 year old, 4 IU is less natural since it puts you in the 15-17 year old range which we only stay at for a couple of years.

I would go off your IGF-1 levels, high 200s low 300s is ideal for anti-aging and health benefits. I would only really consider it if your IGF is below 200 ng/mL.


----------



## ElChapo

rmay09 said:


> @El Chapo what's your view on different esters making a notable difference in estrogen conversion, more so for those are estro/gyno sensitive.
> 
> through picking bits of info from various threads it sounds like for example test prop vs test e would potentially bring a lower estrogen conversion. I understand the element that test e would be in your system longer therefore test in your system longer gives it a longer chance to convert, however from a total amount of test per week like for like how would this stack up.
> 
> for example Say 500mg of test e a week vs 350mg of test e & 150mg test prop a week (spread over 2/3 shots) would the fact part of the total test is prop be considered less likely to aromatise/cause estro problems but still yield as good of a results?


 Test prop causes a sharper estrogen spike but it clears faster, anecdotally people feel the estrogen sides less on prop but if you test your E2 at the peak, the levels get incredibly high.

Estrogen is our friend, you tend to need it at high-normal for optimal libido and benefits from TRT/AAS. Without Estrogen and DHT, testosterone does not impart too many benefits to health and well-being. Too much is also bad of course and we all have genetic differences that make us feel better at different levels than the next guy.


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> How often should Nizoral be applied weekly?


 Minimum of x 2 per week, with 5 minutes leave in time. When applying, massage it into the temples and crown, then the rest of the hair. Use a liberal amount and 2% strength.

You can also use it as a daily shampoo. (The way i use it). It can be sourced from online indian pharma or easy to get with doctor Rx for dandruff. Its OTC in certain countries for the 2%.


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

ElChapo said:


> Caber could possibly work for NPP libido issues+cialis for erections.


 As I've heard, well, will try, I'll go NPP route, 60mg prop and 40mg NPP Ed for 12weeks,then swap NPP for tren for last 8.. And I'll do 0.25mg caber e5D so we'll see.. Fingers crossed tnx man


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> It depends, how long were you going to run winstrol? Are you in the middle of a cycle or at the end?


 I was going to run whole bottle 7 weeks. Im 2 weeks in.

Ιve also been running proviron at 50 mgs daily which i recently heard that much like masteron is notorious for hair loss so probably it is also doing its thing.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo thoughts on these comments? From a pt/trainer who advocates low cycles, he claims only test is needed and rarely more than 300mg. He states you can't grow any faster than a set rate, period.

Research this:

1. The human body appears to be limited to 30g of protein synthesis a day, which set against attrition amounts to around 15g net gains.

2. The human liver can synthesise fat limitlessly within its structural capacity and in a 40% overborne calorific intake, you can construct 100g of fat mass per day that may be apportioned anywhere in the body.

Find out if these things appear true. When you've read enough, you'll relax about it.

So his claim is that twins start a cycle. One of the twins follows his plan and runs 300mg test and a 500cal surplus, the other eats 200 cals more than the first, does everything the same yet runs 1g test.

His statement is that they both gain the same a punt of muscle tissue, the second twin simply gains more fat.

Surely this is nonesesne?


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Drop the T3, it's crap. Bump GH to 4 IU, 3-4 hours before bedtime SQ in the abdomen.
> 
> Add winstrol 50 mg, add a 19-nor (300 mg short ester or 500 mg long), instead of lantus, follow a basic short acting insulin protocol with your meals.
> 
> Run TUDCA/NAC and run the winstrol 8-16 weeks. Results should be insane if you eat and train right.


 Thanks @ElChapo. I can implement this protocol fully except I have no access to a short acting slin, only Lantus is available to me. Should I use this in place of a short acting slin, is it safe for me to run it throughout the 16 week or will I need some form of cycling e.g. 4 week on 4 week off?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo For someone who s been on testosterone for let s say 5 years without going off , I guess his chance of getting his wife pregnant is near to 0?

Would it be wise to not use condoms if on test for that long ? or there s still small chances ( less then 1%) that the wife get pregnant ?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> As I've heard, well, will try, I'll go NPP route, 60mg prop and 40mg NPP Ed for 12weeks,then swap NPP for tren for last 8.. And I'll do 0.25mg caber e5D so we'll see.. Fingers crossed tnx man


 Keep me posted, caber dose is typically 0.5-1 mg per week total, split x 2.

0.25 mg E5D might not do the job.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> I was going to run whole bottle 7 weeks. Im 2 weeks in.
> 
> Ιve also been running proviron at 50 mgs daily which i recently heard that much like masteron is notorious for hair loss so probably it is also doing its thing.


 It's up to you, i would finish the cycle but that's just me. Nizoral can usually reverse recently thinned out hair.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo thoughts on these comments? From a pt/trainer who advocates low cycles, he claims only test is needed and rarely more than 300mg. He states you can't grow any faster than a set rate, period.
> 
> Research this:
> 
> 1. The human body appears to be limited to 30g of protein synthesis a day, which set against attrition amounts to around 15g net gains.
> 
> 2. The human liver can synthesise fat limitlessly within its structural capacity and in a 40% overborne calorific intake, you can construct 100g of fat mass per day that may be apportioned anywhere in the body.
> 
> Find out if these things appear true. When you've read enough, you'll relax about it.
> 
> So his claim is that twins start a cycle. One of the twins follows his plan and runs 300mg test and a 500cal surplus, the other eats 200 cals more than the first, does everything the same yet runs 1g test.
> 
> His statement is that they both gain the same a punt of muscle tissue, the second twin simply gains more fat.
> 
> Surely this is nonesesne?


 Ridiculous overcomplication, every guy wants to make up his own protocol/science/ideas to separate themselves from the rest.

Sticking to the fundamentals that have worked for decades is boring and doesn't get you much attention, that's why there is a new fad diet or training routine every year.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Thanks @ElChapo. I can implement this protocol fully except I have no access to a short acting slin, only Lantus is available to me. Should I use this in place of a short acting slin, is it safe for me to run it throughout the 16 week or will I need some form of cycling e.g. 4 week on 4 week off?


 I wouldn't even bring the insulin into the picture so soon. You can still get plenty of muscle out of adding GH and an oral (used for most of the cycle)


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo For someone who s been on testosterone for let s say 5 years without going off , I guess his chance of getting his wife pregnant is near to 0?
> 
> Would it be wise to not use condoms if on test for that long ? or there s still small chances ( less then 1%) that the wife get pregnant ?
> 
> Thank you


 Not at all, some guys have gotten their wives pregnant while blasting and cruising on trenbolone.

Its also very important to time intercourse with the woman's fertility window. A woman is only fertile for about 1 week of the month. That's 6 days before ovulation and 1 day after just about.

Your wife can still get pregnant, if you have sex during her period without protection, she won't get pregnant, and a few days after ovulation she also can't get pregnant but remember, sperm can survive 5 days in the vagina.

You can use condoms or pull out method during her fertility window. Pull out method is actually extremely effective when done correctly but most guys don't do it right.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo how long after last pin of npp does water weight start coming off? And can I add a mild diuretic to speed this up (I'd like to do this so I can see better actual tissue gains)


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo how long after last pin of npp does water weight start coming off? And can I add a mild diuretic to speed this up (I'd like to do this so I can see better actual tissue gains)


 Use steroidcalc.com to get an idea of serum levels after you drop the compound. I would not run a diuretic just for that reason. Just be patient. NPP is not a very wet compound, i would rank it with it a bit under Test E.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Ridiculous overcomplication, every guy wants to make up his own protocol/science/ideas to separate themselves from the rest.
> 
> Sticking to the fundamentals that have worked for decades is boring and doesn't get you much attention, that's why there is a new fad diet or training routine every year.


 I suppose the question is, what is a real world amount of new muscle tissue that the average person could hope to gain in says 16 weeks? He claims the absolute most would be 6 or so lbs and that bbdrs like levrone claiming a few lbs a week is bolx


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Not at all, some guys have gotten their wives pregnant while blasting and cruising on trenbolone.
> 
> Its also very important to time intercourse with the woman's fertility window. A woman is only fertile for about 1 week of the month. That's 6 days before ovulation and 1 day after just about.
> 
> Your wife can still get pregnant, if you have sex during her period without protection, she won't get pregnant, and a few days after ovulation she also can't get pregnant but remember, sperm can survive 5 days in the vagina.
> 
> You can use condoms or pull out method during her fertility window. Pull out method is actually extremely effective when done correctly but most guys don't do it right.


 If you have the honor of giving her a facial, you will make sure not to miss a drop :thumb


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

ElChapo said:


> Keep me posted, caber dose is typically 0.5-1 mg per week total, split x 2.
> 
> 0.25 mg E5D might not do the job.


 I have very low prolactin.. I'm below normal when I don't take nor19 dunno why.. On 0.25mg e3d It came back as non existand on labwork.. Wich is weird as I'm very estrogen sensitive, literally, when I started gear, I was 3 pins in and get bloods so I know how much AI to use, literally week after I started gear my estro was 3.5 times above normal


----------



## Djibril

Hello @El ChapoThank you one more time for the thread and hope you have a nice week ahead.

One question: I want to start taking raloxifene for 12 weeks in order to see if it does something for pubertal gyno, i was wondering if Raloxifene can show a difference in bloodwork if i test my E2 levels.

I recently increased my test dose to 250mgs a week along with my hcg at 1500 weekly and as we spoke, i want to test my E2 levels 4 weeks after when my oestrogen levels peak to see where they are at and was curious if starting raloxifene will show anything different or if i should wait to start the raloxifene after the bloodwork


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I suppose the question is, what is a real world amount of new muscle tissue that the average person could hope to gain in says 16 weeks? He claims the absolute most would be 6 or so lbs and that bbdrs like levrone claiming a few lbs a week is bolx


 It depends on genetics, experience level, drugs used, etc. We're not robots and we have different genetics. Some guys explode with muscle fast, with or without drugs.

I don't need someone to explain to me scientifically why the sky is blue, it just is and we all know it.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @El ChapoThank you one more time for the thread and hope you have a nice week ahead.
> 
> One question: I want to start taking raloxifene for 12 weeks in order to see if it does something for pubertal gyno, i was wondering if Raloxifene can show a difference in bloodwork if i test my E2 levels.
> 
> I recently increased my test dose to 250mgs a week along with my hcg at 1500 weekly and as we spoke, i want to test my E2 levels 4 weeks after when my oestrogen levels peak to see where they are at and was curious if starting raloxifene will show anything different or if i should wait to start the raloxifene after the bloodwork


 Yes it can.

Don't obsess over E2 levels too much. You usually want high-normal E2 for best results from TRT.


----------



## stewedw

Hi ElChapo, my gf got her bloods back from medichecks. She got tested as she's constantly tired, no motivation but lethergy is unreal. If she sleeps, rests, trains, or changes nothing then she is constantly tired. Only thing I can see here wrong is low free T3. Would this have such a massive effect? She's also gained a lot of weight in the last four years and is on an ssri called serataline, I know some suggest a link between ssri and weigh gain/thyroid output.

Ahy info is appreciated


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Hi ElChapo, my gf got her bloods back from medichecks. She got tested as she's constantly tired, no motivation but lethergy is unreal. If she sleeps, rests, trains, or changes nothing then she is constantly tired. Only thing I can see here wrong is low free T3. Would this have such a massive effect? She's also gained a lot of weight in the last four years and is on an ssri called serataline, I know some suggest a link between ssri and weigh gain/thyroid output.
> 
> Ahy info is appreciated
> 
> View attachment 177699
> 
> 
> View attachment 177701
> 
> 
> View attachment 177703
> 
> 
> View attachment 177705
> 
> 
> View attachment 177707
> 
> 
> View attachment 177709
> 
> 
> View attachment 177711


 Easy

She has hypothyroidism. Free T4 is very low. She needs levothyroxine.

I recommend wellbutrin instead of SSRIs. Wellbutrin helps you burn fat and can increase energy/motivation/libido. SSRIs killed libido and can make you tired and gain a lot of fat. You came to the right guy, this is my specialty. It's actually likely that fixing the thyroid will cure the depression. I would bet her vitamin D is also low which can lead to depression. Vitamin D is actually a steroid hormone and very important for mental health and immune function.

Feel free to PM if you want to follow up. Most docs will say she is fine because her TSH is "borderline", using TSH is like using LH/FSH to gauge testosterone levels and activity, very stupid.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo I was reading this article:

https://moreplatesmoredates.com/switching-compounds-at-week-eight-makes-no-sense/

The guys says that once we plateau with muscle building, to lower myostatin ,we should raise the calories a bit and once we plateau another time we start raise AAS dose until next plateaus and so on....

OR

We go on a trt dose of test.

Is that true that we need to do all that to lower myostatin levels?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo I was reading this article:
> 
> https://moreplatesmoredates.com/switching-compounds-at-week-eight-makes-no-sense/
> 
> The guys says that once we plateau with muscle building, to lower myostatin ,we should raise the calories a bit and once we plateau another time we start raise AAS dose until next plateaus and so on....
> 
> OR
> 
> We go on a trt dose of test.
> 
> Is that true that we need to do all that to lower myostatin levels?


 It's not a bad idea to give yourself a break, and yes switching compounds is pretty dumb. The drivers of muscle growth will be caloric surplus+progressive overload.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Easy
> 
> She has hypothyroidism. Free T4 is very low. She needs levothyroxine.
> 
> I recommend wellbutrin instead of SSRIs. Wellbutrin helps you burn fat and can increase energy/motivation/libido. SSRIs killed libido and can make you tired and gain a lot of fat. You came to the right guy, this is my specialty. It's actually likely that fixing the thyroid will cure the depression. I would bet her vitamin D is also low which can lead to depression. Vitamin D is actually a steroid hormone and very important for mental health and immune function.
> 
> Feel free to PM if you want to follow up. Most docs will say she is fine because her TSH is "borderline", using TSH is like using LH/FSH to gauge testosterone levels and activity, very stupid.


 Thank you, I've passed this on. I've suggested that she have this rechecked in a month.

How can she start to come off her ssri and start Wellbutrin, and when she approaches her gp what should she be saying or asking the gp? She's put on 35-40lbs in the two years that she has been on the ssri (other factors clearly have played a part) happy to send via pm to avoid it clogging the thread. We very much appreciate your help.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Thank you, I've passed this on. I've suggested that she have this rechecked in a month.
> 
> How can she start to come off her ssri and start Wellbutrin, and when she approaches her gp what should she be saying or asking the gp? She's put on 35-40lbs in the two years that she has been on the ssri (other factors clearly have played a part) happy to send via pm to avoid it clogging the thread. We very much appreciate your help.


 Her weight gain is a common side effect of SSRIs as is poor libido and many other issues. Hypothyroidism likely exacerbated the issue. Hypo is also a reason she may have depression issues.

Convincing an MD is a whole different ball game man. Some people self-medicate wellbutrin because the doctors like to prescribe SSRIs only. Most docs don't treat hypothyroidism unless the TSH is elevated. You could try asking but i'll bet your best option is self-medication, to be blunt and honest with you.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It's not a bad idea to give yourself a break, and yes switching compounds is pretty dumb. The drivers of muscle growth will be caloric surplus+progressive overload.


 Yes but when we plateau we can increase the calories instead of dose and then jump on a cruise.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Yes but when we plateau we can increase the calories instead of dose and then jump on a cruise.


 You are unlikely to keep seeing gains lowering to cruise and just increasing calories, especially an advanced/elite trainee. Increasing calories might just increase fat gains. It depends on many factors, the person/experience level/genetics/etc.


----------



## shay1490

I was using Nexus test e for about 8 weeks with crippling pip every single time, pinning 600mg once a week in glutes or ventroglutes, i'd say most if not all the injections were painful, to the point i've had to take many days off work and gym especially leg day, But I did gain muscle so the test was good.

Now I've been on Pharmacom test 300 for 4 weeks pinning the same amount in the same sites and the next day it literally feels like I haven't pinned at all, even if i did get pip, it would be very very minor, and I haven't missed any leg days at all

my question is why the hell is there such a huge difference in pip?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo low dose fina/dura on TRT/low cruise dosage for getting back or stopping the hair loss from AAS cycles ?


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> I was using Nexus test e for about 8 weeks with crippling pip every single time, pinning 600mg once a week in glutes or ventroglutes, i'd say most if not all the injections were painful, to the point i've had to take many days off work and gym especially leg day, But I did gain muscle so the test was good.
> 
> Now I've been on Pharmacom test 300 for 4 weeks pinning the same amount in the same sites and the next day it literally feels like I haven't pinned at all, even if i did get pip, it would be very very minor, and I haven't missed any leg days at all
> 
> my question is why the hell is there such a huge difference in pip?


 What was the nexus test E advertised concentration? Concentration and recipe is important (solvents used). Using Guaicol and EO keeps the hormone powder in solution which prevents PIP. A lot of UGLs will overdose their Test E to hit high test numbers. It's very cheap, especially at bulk powder prices. Many raw powder suppliers actually give free kilograms of test E powder to UGLs with their orders. It could be overdosed test E. Dirty oil is also possible but it's easy to notice ( the oil will be cloudier and may have particulate matter in it)

Pharmacom was one of the first to introduce guaicol to their testosterone propionate recipe which makes it smooth as silk and PIP free.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo low dose fina/dura on TRT/low cruise dosage for getting back or stopping the hair loss from AAS cycles ?


 I would use nizoral 2% first, this works pretty well without risking sexual and mental health. Some guys use fina/dura without issues too, but i would try the topical route first with nizoral.


----------



## Doitagain

How come countless people complain about low libido and weak erections when E2 gets too High from eccessive Test's aromatization and yet I aven't ever Heard of anyone getting limp noodle/lowered sex drive with Dbol?


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Drop the T3, it's crap. Bump GH to 4 IU, 3-4 hours before bedtime SQ in the abdomen.
> 
> Add winstrol 50 mg, add a 19-nor (300 mg short ester or 500 mg long), instead of lantus, follow a basic short acting insulin protocol with your meals.
> 
> Run TUDCA/NAC and run the winstrol 8-16 weeks. Results should be insane if you eat and train right.


 Thanks for the insights @ElChapo

Is there a reason why you recommend SQ in the abdomen? Can localized fat loss be expected?

I've seen from your previous posts on this thread that HCG if used only at end of cycle/PCT should be at 3000-5000iu for 2 weeks starting from the day of the last jab together with 6-8 weeks of nolva 20mg + clomid 50mg. My question is, should the nolva+clomid therapy start together with or only after the 2 weeks of HCG assuming long esters such as test cyp were used?


----------



## Redsy

Picked up a minor tear in rear of rotator cuff. Think it's infraspinatus muscle.

For recovery what's best?

Using hgh to help.....still better to use AM and PM over one jab PM?

Is it worth jabbing locally? So HGH in rear of shoulder SQ


----------



## PSevens2017

Redsy said:


> Picked up a minor tear in rear of rotator cuff. Think it's infraspinatus muscle.
> 
> For recovery what's best?
> 
> Using hgh to help.....still better to use AM and PM over one jab PM?
> 
> Is it worth jabbing locally? So HGH in rear of shoulder SQ


 Might be worth getting it assessed first. You do not need hgh for this minor issue. That is a total waste of your money imo for minor tear.

Light rehab starting with pendulum swings & gentle AROM through shoulder ranges. Apply heat to relax tension around shoulder joint.

After 5-7 days from initial injury date, if pain has reduced and mobility improved, introduce red r/band to perform internal/external rotation for r cuff and 'draw the sword' exercises. It's on YouTube.

Pain/mobility dependent, you might be able to introduce stability exercises. Assume push up position and just hold it. Start with 10 seconds and rest. Repeat and increase time.

Plenty of static shoulder stability exercises on YouTube.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> How come countless people complain about low libido and weak erections when E2 gets too High from eccessive Test's aromatization and yet I aven't ever Heard of anyone getting limp noodle/lowered sex drive with Dbol?


 Everyone is different. Sure you can get these symptoms from dbol, just because you haven't heard someone say it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

The proverbial "If a tree falls in the woods but nobody hears it, did it fall?"


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Thanks for the insights @ElChapo
> 
> Is there a reason why you recommend SQ in the abdomen? Can localized fat loss be expected?
> 
> I've seen from your previous posts on this thread that HCG if used only at end of cycle/PCT should be at 3000-5000iu for 2 weeks starting from the day of the last jab together with 6-8 weeks of nolva 20mg + clomid 50mg. My question is, should the nolva+clomid therapy start together with or only after the 2 weeks of HCG assuming long esters such as test cyp were used?


 The reason is because every study that tests timing, administration site and method, points to SQ/Abdomen/Evening injections leading to much higher AUC and longer half-life than any other method. I used to recommend IM, this gives you a fast and hard spike, but the longer half-life and bigger AUC should provide superior results.

Don't expect localized fat loss from HGH. HGH is poor for fat loss, caloric deficit+fat burner will serve you much better.

No, HCG should be used from day 1 of a cycle and 2 weeks past the last injection. It's best to run HCG from cycle start to finish if you want to increase the chances of successful recovery and limit shutdown during the cycle. You could do this even better by adding HMG, but this is cost-prohibitive for most people.

The clomid+nolva starts right away after your last injection. Clomid/nolva take some time to build up in the blood and take effect.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Picked up a minor tear in rear of rotator cuff. Think it's infraspinatus muscle.
> 
> For recovery what's best?
> 
> Using hgh to help.....still better to use AM and PM over one jab PM?
> 
> Is it worth jabbing locally? So HGH in rear of shoulder SQ


 2-3 weeks complete rest, you won't lose muscle or strength in this time, especially at maintenance calories with sufficient protein.

If it hurts at rest, i would do 3-4 weeks. If it only hurts with activity, 2-3 weeks should the job in most cases.

You can do AM/PM split for higher IGF-1 level on the same HGH dose.

You could try locally since it's actually a muscle and there have been enough anecdotes of localized growth that i would consider it's worth a shot. There may have been a study i read where there was a local effect on mice, but i can't recall at the moment.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> Might be worth getting it assessed first. You do not need hgh for this minor issue. That is a total waste of your money imo for minor tear.
> 
> Light rehab starting with pendulum swings & gentle AROM through shoulder ranges. Apply heat to relax tension around shoulder joint.
> 
> After 5-7 days from initial injury date, if pain has reduced and mobility improved, introduce red r/band to perform internal/external rotation for r cuff and 'draw the sword' exercises. It's on YouTube.
> 
> Pain/mobility dependent, you might be able to introduce stability exercises. Assume push up position and just hold it. Start with 10 seconds and rest. Repeat and increase time.
> 
> Plenty of static shoulder stability exercises on YouTube.


 I would do complete rest, i've had various strains/pulls/etc and complete rest has always completely healed the issue for me.

Once you return to training, you can start a bit lighter than you were previously at, and return to your full weight. Try to identify why the tear happened so prevent it in the future. For me, i had pulled the tricep going to weight pull ups after a long break with too much weight, 2-3 weeks off and i was back 100% but i started lighter and i never had an issue again. @Redsy


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo

Got my results back from cruise dose of test e using 0.7ml per week of 250mg per ml.

bloods were taken 48 hours after injection.

it's clearly highly overdosed by those results i guess as its similar to a 500mg cycle expected result.

I was using 3.1mg aromasin on injection day only.

I have no libido issues although I am lethargic sometimes.

should i lower the dose to 0.4ml a week to get the test result down to a 30-50nmol?

which is what I wanted it to be at, will I even need an AI on a actual cruise dose considering my e2 isn't that far out of range with the testosterone result being overdosed as it is ?

the result is actually higher than when I used 2ml test per week of another lab and got 127nmol 2 days after injection.


----------



## Redsy

ElChapo said:


> 2-3 weeks complete rest, you won't lose muscle or strength in this time, especially at maintenance calories with sufficient protein.
> 
> If it hurts at rest, i would do 3-4 weeks. If it only hurts with activity, 2-3 weeks should the job in most cases.
> 
> You can do AM/PM split for higher IGF-1 level on the same HGH dose.
> 
> You could try locally since it's actually a muscle and there have been enough anecdotes of localized growth that i would consider it's worth a shot. There may have been a study i read where there was a local effect on mice, but i can't recall at the moment.


 Great really appreciate advice.

Yes, I know it's there but wouldn't say hurts at rest. If I do a BW curl, lateral raise, front raise, ohp etc and I feel it at back of shoulder.

When we say complete test.....we mean just anything that hurts at all. Squatting, deads seem ok. Carry on with them?

Ill jab in lats....nearest I can reach myself. Missus won't do it. I've got HGH anyway....I'll just dose 5/wk for 2-3weeks.

I had hernia repair.....I swear HGH helped recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Got my results back from cruise dose of test e using 0.7ml per week of 250mg per ml.
> 
> bloods were taken 48 hours after injection.
> 
> it's clearly highly overdosed by those results i guess as its similar to a 500mg cycle expected result.
> 
> I was using 3.1mg aromasin on injection day only.
> 
> I have no libido issues although I am lethargic sometimes.
> 
> should i lower the dose to 0.4ml a week to get the test result down to a 30-50nmol?
> 
> which is what I wanted it to be at, will I even need an AI on a actual cruise dose considering my e2 isn't that far out of range with the testosterone result being overdosed as it is ?
> 
> the result is actually higher than when I used 2ml test per week of another lab and got 127nmol 2 days after injection.
> 
> View attachment 177763


 That's a very high reading, even accounting for peak level. Not sure if it's way overdosed or even contains deca but something is off for sure. Deca can make the testosterone reading come out extremely high even with low doses, unless it's way overdosed, you genetically get high serum levels on low doses and that timing of blood draw was the absolute peak.

Even .35 mL of this stuff will have you supraphysiological... I'd want a more consistent source to cruise on/TRT with. Not so much a problem for blasting.


----------



## jj1996

Could cruising make you more responsive on a blast?


----------



## darren.1987

ElChapo said:


> That's a very high reading, even accounting for peak level. Not sure if it's way overdosed or even contains deca but something is off for sure. Deca can make the testosterone reading come out extremely high even with low doses, unless it's way overdosed, you genetically get high serum levels on low doses and that timing of blood draw was the absolute peak.
> 
> Even .35 mL of this stuff will have you supraphysiological... I'd want a more consistent source to cruise on/TRT with. Not so much a problem for blasting.


 thanks. I will use another lab for cruise and lower to 0.6ml and retest in 6 weeks.

would you think I'd need AI as on a true 30-50nmol cruise dose?

as that latest test I posted just now I was only using 3.1mg aromasin after injection and it isn't far out of range at 175pmol.

yes something definitely up I used max 0.8ml as you lose a bit but shouldn't be as high as that like you said


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Could cruising make you more responsive on a blast?


 Some people have found this to be the case, it's good to take a break and cruise regardless so your cardiovascular system, liver, muscles, tendons/ligaments all have a break to recover. I'm not against longer cycles either though depending on the case.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> thanks. I will use another lab for cruise and lower to 0.6ml and retest in 6 weeks.
> 
> would you think I'd need AI as on a true 30-50nmol cruise dose?
> 
> as that latest test I posted just now I was only using 3.1mg aromasin after injection and it isn't far out of range at 175pmol.
> 
> yes something definitely up I used max 0.8ml as you lose a bit but shouldn't be as high as that like you said


 E2 as high as 257 pmol/L is fine in many cases. 175 pmol/L is a good level for most people. The normal E2 range is based on men in the low range and mid-normal range, those on TRT aiming for higher normal levels will usually be out of the "normal" E2 range. AI is being overused all the time. Most of the time, only none or as little as 0.5 mg adex per week is needed.


----------



## TALBOTL

@ElChapo evening sir, planned to ask this earlier today but the forum was down for me.

question from a friend and it is a genuine not 'asking for a friend'

he is lean around 10% BF and wonders how little test he can get away with whilst running 100mg EOD of Tren Ace, granted it's quite a broad and user specific query - he has used test previously up to 750mg so no issues with using it per se, purely just wanted to keep it low and utilise the tren, I'd hazard a guess at TRT dosage or slightly under as it would only be an 8 week cycle, but I don't have any anecdotal proof of steroids at all.

any help appreciated as always.

LT


----------



## Jordan08

What would be your supplement recommendation for a woman who is suffering from PCOD and trying to lose weight. I understand that it's all about caloric deficit but still any other things to keep in mind?/


----------



## Redsy

PSevens2017 said:


> Might be worth getting it assessed first. You do not need hgh for this minor issue. That is a total waste of your money imo for minor tear.
> 
> Light rehab starting with pendulum swings & gentle AROM through shoulder ranges. Apply heat to relax tension around shoulder joint.
> 
> After 5-7 days from initial injury date, if pain has reduced and mobility improved, introduce red r/band to perform internal/external rotation for r cuff and 'draw the sword' exercises. It's on YouTube.
> 
> Pain/mobility dependent, you might be able to introduce stability exercises. Assume push up position and just hold it. Start with 10 seconds and rest. Repeat and increase time.
> 
> Plenty of static shoulder stability exercises on YouTube.


 I had and use HGH anyway....so it was more how best to utilise it to maximise recovery. If i jab a bit extra for a few weeks...so be it.

Am really bad at physio type exercises...ie actually doing them....but i will take a look and try to go steady once fixed


----------



## MarkyMark

Illustrative example for my question:

Person 1 uses 600mg test e per week and an AI to keep E2 in check.

Person 2 uses 100mg test E and 500mg primobolan per week, no AI as test dose is low enough to keep E2 in a good normal range.

Both persons donate blood every 12 weeks and both use the same dose year round and both follow the same diet and cardio regime.

In 10 years time who of the 2 is more Likly to have done more damage to their health? Mainly concerning heart related issues.

In summary I'm asking, mg for mg is primo really a safer steroid in comparison to others as it is touted all over these forums?


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @ElChapo evening sir, planned to ask this earlier today but the forum was down for me.
> 
> question from a friend and it is a genuine not 'asking for a friend'
> 
> he is lean around 10% BF and wonders how little test he can get away with whilst running 100mg EOD of Tren Ace, granted it's quite a broad and user specific query - he has used test previously up to 750mg so no issues with using it per se, purely just wanted to keep it low and utilise the tren, I'd hazard a guess at TRT dosage or slightly under as it would only be an 8 week cycle, but I don't have any anecdotal proof of steroids at all.
> 
> any help appreciated as always.
> 
> LT


 As always, what are his goals? There's no cookie cutter approach to this game or else we'd all be taking the same stuff at the same dosage.

Test+Tren at 1:1 ratio is very effective for strength/mass but higher sides. What are his goals?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo a few questions back someone asked if they would still gain when they dropped back to trt/cruise. You said its unlikely.

Could you switch to a strength programme when on a cruise or trt to maintain and become stronger, or is this also unlikely? Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> What would be your supplement recommendation for a woman who is suffering from PCOD and trying to lose weight. I understand that it's all about caloric deficit but still any other things to keep in mind?/


 What fat burners can you get access to? EC stack, yohimbine, clebuterol, or DNP are excellent fat burners, but you must use a strict and consistent caloric deficit of 20-30% and add some cardio since women have slower metabolism and since they are smaller, they burn less calories as well.

Use sail rabbit BMR calculator (you can google this) and use the Katch-Mcardle formula. Use the sedentary multiplier or lightly active if doing cardio or very active, don't go above those two modifiers.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Illustrative example for my question:
> 
> Person 1 uses 600mg test e per week and an AI to keep E2 in check.
> 
> Person 2 uses 100mg test E and 500mg primobolan per week, no AI as test dose is low enough to keep E2 in a good normal range.
> 
> Both persons donate blood every 12 weeks and both use the same dose year round and both follow the same diet and cardio regime.
> 
> In 10 years time who of the 2 is more Likly to have done more damage to their health? Mainly concerning heart related issues.
> 
> In summary I'm asking, mg for mg is primo really a safer steroid in comparison to others as it is touted all over these forums?


 The "good normal range" is actually quite high. This whole 20-30 pg/mL range is flawed. It's based on people with very low and low normal estradiol levels. When using TRT or being at the top of the range, the E2 can go as high as 40-70 pg/mL with good results in the libido/well-being department. E2 is very important as is DHT for testosterone to work as testosterone. There are many studies showing the detriment of blocking E2 in terms of body composition and libido.

The question is not something that can be answered, we don't know how toxic primobolan is to health. As long as blood pressure is controlled, hematocrit in range and doing cardio, both people should be more or less alright, but it also depends on genetics. Some guys are more sensitive to heart disease and issues than others and can handle more abuse. The simple answer is that both parties are risking their health running that much AAS for 10 years straight and nobody knows, they don't studies on this due to ethics concerns because of the permanent damage/danger involved.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo a few questions back someone asked if they would still gain when they dropped back to trt/cruise. You said its unlikely.
> 
> Could you switch to a strength programme when on a cruise or trt to maintain and become stronger, or is this also unlikely? Thanks.


 Unlikely, remember, you can't expect to get the same results off of a cruise as you do with a blast. That's basic physiology. It depends if you've maxed out some of the gains on the blast dosage. If you still have some genetic potential left, then you could maybe gain some strength/muscle on the cruise, but if you are training right, you are more likely to have surpassed your genetic limit at that level of AAS.

You should be happy to maintain as much strength/muscle as possible after dropping from a blast dosage.


----------



## stargazer

Doitagain said:


> How come countless people complain about low libido and weak erections when E2 gets too High from eccessive Test's aromatization and yet I aven't ever Heard of anyone getting limp noodle/lowered sex drive with Dbol?


 I think generally guys run dbol for a short period, on top of that dbol converts to methylestradiol which has a 30% + higher affinity for binding to breast tissue, hence it's propensity for gyno.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> As always, what are his goals? There's no cookie cutter approach to this game or else we'd all be taking the same stuff at the same dosage.
> 
> Test+Tren at 1:1 ratio is very effective for strength/mass but higher sides. What are his goals?


 Goals are body composition only, which is why he has tried to lean out prior to starting said cycle - cut down initially with test then naturally lost fat, no wants to utilise tren for the first time.

As you say there's no cookie cutter approach and of course the same will be said in terms of diet, ie this will massively impact composition.

He is switched on with everything but just not sure when it comes to tren, therefore doesn't want to go overkill when using the first time.

Hope that sort of makes sense. :confused1:


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Goals are body composition only, which is why he has tried to lean out prior to starting said cycle - cut down initially with test then naturally lost fat, no wants to utilise tren for the first time.
> 
> As you say there's no cookie cutter approach and of course the same will be said in terms of diet, ie this will massively impact composition.
> 
> He is switched on with everything but just not sure when it comes to tren, therefore doesn't want to go overkill when using the first time.
> 
> Hope that sort of makes sense. :confused1:


 What is body composition? You mean recomposition? Lost fat/gain muscle? What everyone wants. Focus on one thing at a time, bulk or cut. Don't try doing both.

Does he want muscle or to get leaner?


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> What is body composition? You mean recomposition? Lost fat/gain muscle? What everyone wants. Focus on one thing at a time, bulk or cut. Don't try doing both.
> 
> Does he want muscle or to get leaner?


 My apologies recomposition, wanting to cut not bulk - effectively just wants to maximise the 'dry' nature of the compound in synch with diet, initially toyed with winstrol or anavar which I suppose you could argue is a better choice, but just has his mind set on trying tren, with low test - hence why I wanted to ask your thoughts on it to avoid all the broscience he is being fed.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> My apologies recomposition, wanting to cut not bulk - effectively just wants to maximise the 'dry' nature of the compound in synch with diet, initially toyed with winstrol or anavar which I suppose you could argue is a better choice, but just has his mind set on trying tren, with low test - hence why I wanted to ask your thoughts on it to avoid all the broscience he is being fed.


 Winstrol is much better for his goals. It has a much more powerful drying effect. If he wants to be dry, Test prop 300 mg+Tren ace 300 mg per week +50 mg winstrol daily.

TRT dose test is counter-intuitive and results won't be as good as 300 mg test prop, which will also keep you dry. Avoid enanthate, it puts a layer of water on you. Although broscientists will tell you it's because of estrogen or sodium/carbs in the diet, it is not.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is much better for his goals. It has a much more powerful drying effect. If he wants to be dry, Test prop 300 mg+Tren ace 300 mg per week +50 mg winstrol daily.
> 
> TRT dose test is counter-intuitive and results won't be as good as 300 mg test prop, which will also keep you dry. Avoid enanthate, it puts a layer of water on you. Although broscientists will tell you it's because of estrogen or sodium/carbs in the diet, it is not.


 Based on the above, would 300 test e 200tren e and 100mg have a decent effect (the test and tren are much lower than I ran in the past) more looking for a recomp effect after this current cycle.

Cheers.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is much better for his goals. It has a much more powerful drying effect. If he wants to be dry, Test prop 300 mg+Tren ace 300 mg per week +50 mg winstrol daily.
> 
> TRT dose test is counter-intuitive and results won't be as good as 300 mg test prop, which will also keep you dry. Avoid enanthate, it puts a layer of water on you. Although broscientists will tell you it's because of estrogen or sodium/carbs in the diet, it is not.


 Thank you as ever EC


----------



## jj1996

Is there a point using eq in a test and tren cycle? Since eq binds weakly in comparison to others?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Based on the above, would 300 test e 200tren e and 100mg have a decent effect (the test and tren are much lower than I ran in the past) more looking for a recomp effect after this current cycle.
> 
> Cheers.


 Stop looking for a recomp effect. That's my point. You should either cut or bulk. Pick one and do it. It's faster/more efficient to either lose fat or build muscle, doing both at the same time is not very effective.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Is there a point using eq in a test and tren cycle? Since eq binds weakly in comparison to others?


 No, EQ is pretty lackluster, you can use it as a substitute for testosterone, some people love using it that way. It's drier.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> No, EQ is pretty lackluster, you can use it as a substitute for testosterone, some people love using it that way. It's drier.


 So is 1mg of eq = 1mg test? or is it higher? So if someone is a high aromatiser then replace some test with eq will give same anabolic effect?


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> So is 1mg of eq = 1mg test? or is it higher? So if someone is a high aromatiser then replace some test with eq will give same anabolic effect?


 There's no exact science to this, but it aromatizes at a much lower rate.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo I can be a bit of a nerd when it comes to this stuff. Do you know of links/studies/videos where one can read more in depth about how hormones like GH, T3/T4, IGF and testosterone work. In terms of recovery, anti aging etc, at a depeer biological level, ie exactly what is going on in the body?

I would love to get a better understanding of what these hormones do, when using them as an adult, maybe you can point me in the right direction?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I can be a bit of a nerd when it comes to this stuff. Do you know of links/studies/videos where one can read more in depth about how hormones like GH, T3/T4, IGF and testosterone work. In terms of recovery, anti aging etc, at a depeer biological level, ie exactly what is going on in the body?
> 
> I would love to get a better understanding of what these hormones do, when using them as an adult, maybe you can point me in the right direction?


 Google scholar and pubmed different terms like "growth hormone body composition" "T4/T3 well-being" things like that is the best way to find cool information and some stuff that isn't well known yet.

This book is the definitive source for testosterone information. It's an entire medical textbook dedicated to testosterone and has tons of information and a lot of things people don't know about:

https://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Eberhard-Nieschlag-ebook/dp/B009ZRNQ1Y/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=testosterone+action+substitution&qid=1574525920&sr=8-1

A big recent breakthrough in aging research is the important of the thymus which loses function rapidly after childhood. They found the HGH/DHEA/Thyroid hormones can reverse some of that decrease in function.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

What do you think about this HGH+Insulin protocol? (It's the one that Coach Trevor from Enhanced Athlete uses)

3-5iu HGH + 3-5iu HumalinR first thing am (intramuscular)

3-5iu HGH + 3-5iu HumalinR before wo (intramuscular)

3-5iu HGH + No Insulin (subq)

Insulin is used to amplify IGF1 from HGH and helping pancreas on shuttling nutrients into muscle.

Basically you will be on insulin 12h a day since HumalinR lasts almost 6h every shot.

I was thinking to apply this protocol to TestP NPP W cycle.


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

There's always talk that taking TUDCA 3 hours after you dose your orals is the most effective. Any truth to this?

Also, how serious are clenbuterol's negative effects on the heart? Something to worry about or not?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What do you think about this HGH+Insulin protocol? (It's the one that Coach Trevor from Enhanced Athlete uses)
> 
> 3-5iu HGH + 3-5iu HumalinR first thing am (intramuscular)
> 
> 3-5iu HGH + 3-5iu HumalinR before wo (intramuscular)
> 
> 3-5iu HGH + No Insulin (subq)
> 
> Insulin is used to amplify IGF1 from HGH and helping pancreas on shuttling nutrients into muscle.
> 
> Basically you will be on insulin 12h a day since HumalinR lasts almost 6h every shot.
> 
> I was thinking to apply this protocol to TestP NPP W cycle.


 Sure, as long as you are taking enough insulin to shuttle in the nutrients and not too much to cause hypoglycemia episode. Not sure why the third shot has no insulin?


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> There's always talk that taking TUDCA 3 hours after you dose your orals is the most effective. Any truth to this?
> 
> Also, how serious are clenbuterol's negative effects on the heart? Something to worry about or not?


 It can't hurt, what TUDCA does is dilute the toxic bile produced when you take AAS and prevents it from clogging up your liver which leads to damage.

Clenbuterol is safe if used at appropriate doses for a limited length of time, in individuals without pre-existing heart conditions. It's like a more potent caffeine. If you are taking clenbuterol year round or running excessive doses, then you have a problem, otherwise, it's fine.


----------



## Playtowin

Starting DNP today at 250mcg. Don't feel comfortable going above this dose. Is 250 effective for 2/3 weeks?

Do I need T3 with 250mcg DNP? If so, 25 or 50?

Thanks mate


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I tore my soleus muscle of my calf whilst running on Saturday. I'm pretty sure it's more than a partial rupture as it is agony to put any weight on. Am currently on crutches. Any recommendations for recovery? I'm using 3.3iu HGH daily and TRT testosterone with a little masteron. Complete rest of the calf until it's able to bear weight again. Anything else that can be done? And any idea how long a soleus muscle tear/rupture would take to heal? I'm wondering when I'll be able to squat again, and whether squatting would place stress on the calf muscle if I manage to do it before it's fully healed. Obviously calf training won't be resumed until pain free but am concerned about atrophy of the Quads and hamstrings as I cannot use my left leg at all.


----------



## Fattynomore

@El Chapo I've never told my wife about my gear use, mostly because she's extremely narrow minded and thinks junkie. Well this weekend she has found my gear and cialis and get hit with the usual narrow mindedness need the cialis to get an erection to have sex with her and usual junkie crap.

Now I have no problem getting an erection I take them for the health benefits same with the gear I'm not coming off it again, I'm nearing mid 40's and will run low doses an trt cruises mostly for feel good factor and small performance enhancing properties.

Would be much appreciated for a more educated man such as yourself to explain in laymen terms the benefits of this so I can explain to her, if left to me to explain this it will turn into a rant no doubt.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo I was running 150mg test e per week (one injection per week) - i switched to two injections per week (still 150mg per week) and ive started getting oily skin and spots, also noticed my temples have slightly receeded (still using nizoral and had no problems when i was jabbing once per week)

I thought jabbing twice a week would do the opposite regarding side effects due to stable levels? Do you know why this is happening ?


----------



## Iszczwan

@El ChapoHi
I am 39 and I am planning to do my first test e 300mg per week with one jab on monday 150mg and one on thursday 150mg for 12 weeks cycle.
I will do my blood test before cycle as a base and 4th week to check e2 levels to find out whether to introduce adex.
Should I introduce adex if my e2 level will be over 160 pmol/L ? Is anyhthing above 160 is considered as an elevated level of e2. I understand that controllong e2 is really personal matter but is there any rule of thumb? What my free test readings should looks like on 300mg test e per week?....Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Starting DNP today at 250mcg. Don't feel comfortable going above this dose. Is 250 effective for 2/3 weeks?
> 
> Do I need T3 with 250mcg DNP? If so, 25 or 50?
> 
> Thanks mate


 250 mg is plenty. You don't need T3. You need 20-40% caloric deficit.

Bonuses are ephedrine/caffeine stack and/or AAS. Ephedrine/caffeine will suppress appetite/provide energy/further increase fat loss. AAS can further preserve muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I tore my soleus muscle of my calf whilst running on Saturday. I'm pretty sure it's more than a partial rupture as it is agony to put any weight on. Am currently on crutches. Any recommendations for recovery? I'm using 3.3iu HGH daily and TRT testosterone with a little masteron. Complete rest of the calf until it's able to bear weight again. Anything else that can be done? And any idea how long a soleus muscle tear/rupture would take to heal? I'm wondering when I'll be able to squat again, and whether squatting would place stress on the calf muscle if I manage to do it before it's fully healed. Obviously calf training won't be resumed until pain free but am concerned about atrophy of the Quads and hamstrings as I cannot use my left leg at all.


 First, can you identify why it happened? How flexible are you? Was it outdoor or treadmill?

You're going to need 3-4 weeks of complete rest, ice it for 20 minutes at least x 3 daily for the first few days. This will help with the pain/inflammation and help it heal faster. You need complete rest. If you want to carefully train your upper body during this time you can, but i would take complete rest. If you rest it well, you can probably come back after 3 weeks.

You must identify why it happened though to prevent this in the future. Are you flexible in the legs? Can you touch the floor with your hands while standing?


----------



## ElChapo

Fattynomore said:


> @El Chapo I've never told my wife about my gear use, mostly because she's extremely narrow minded and thinks junkie. Well this weekend she has found my gear and cialis and get hit with the usual narrow mindedness need the cialis to get an erection to have sex with her and usual junkie crap.
> 
> Now I have no problem getting an erection I take them for the health benefits same with the gear I'm not coming off it again, I'm nearing mid 40's and will run low doses an trt cruises mostly for feel good factor and small performance enhancing properties.
> 
> Would be much appreciated for a more educated man such as yourself to explain in laymen terms the benefits of this so I can explain to her, if left to me to explain this it will turn into a rant no doubt.


 Have her watch the documentary "bigger, stronger, faster" so she gets a better understanding of AAS. All the celebrities, movie stars and athletes are enhanced and you have everyone fawning and admiring them for their enhanced physiques/aesthetics.

Explain to her that the reason young men and women are so healthy and resilient to disease/health problems is due to high levels of hormones that decline with age. This is why older people look older, feel older and get sicker more easily. That's the easiest way to explain it. Just like a type 1 diabetic need insulin to replace what they don't make or a hypothyroid patient needs thyroid hormone, men AND women produce less testosterone/estrogen/etc as they age which leads to wrinkles, weak bones/muscles, low sex drive, low energy, low mood/irritability, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo I was running 150mg test e per week (one injection per week) - i switched to two injections per week (still 150mg per week) and ive started getting oily skin and spots, also noticed my temples have slightly receeded (still using nizoral and had no problems when i was jabbing once per week)
> 
> I thought jabbing twice a week would do the opposite regarding side effects due to stable levels? Do you know why this is happening ?


 Your temples aren't going to recede that fast from a change like that. How long have you been on the split injections? How long have you been on nizoral? Is it 2% and how do you use it/how often?

Splitting dose to x 2 per week usually increases serum levels higher with the same dose, so you can need less when you do x 2 per week. So your total testosterone/DHT/E2 could be higher than once per week 150 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

Iszczwan said:


> @El ChapoHi
> I am 39 and I am planning to do my first test e 300mg per week with one jab on monday 150mg and one on thursday 150mg for 12 weeks cycle.
> I will do my blood test before cycle as a base and 4th week to check e2 levels to find out whether to introduce adex.
> Should I introduce adex if my e2 level will be over 160 pmol/L ? Is anyhthing above 160 is considered as an elevated level of e2. I understand that controllong e2 is really personal matter but is there any rule of thumb? What my free test readings should looks like on 300mg test e per week?....Cheers


 You should not need anymore than 0.5 mg adex per week. Don't touch AI unless you get high E2 symptoms. Going by blood work isn't good enough because everyone has a different genetic sensitivity to E2, most guys will feel their best with high normal or high levels of E2, It's when it gets very high or you have a genetic sensitivity that you may feel off.

There is no cookie cutter approach with E2 or testosterone because we are all different, i will tell you that the small target E2 range given by most people online is flawed and outdated. High normal and high E2 is linked to better libido/wellbeing than low and "normal E2". From studies and my experience with patients.


----------



## Fattynomore

ElChapo said:


> Have her watch the documentary "bigger, stronger, faster" so she gets a better understanding of AAS. All the celebrities, movie stars and athletes are enhanced and you have everyone fawning and admiring them for their enhanced physiques/aesthetics.
> 
> Explain to her that the reason young men and women are so healthy and resilient to disease/health problems is due to high levels of hormones that decline with age. This is why older people look older, feel older and get sicker more easily. That's the easiest way to explain it. Just like a type 1 diabetic need insulin to replace what they don't make or a hypothyroid patient needs thyroid hormone, men AND women produce less testosterone/estrogen/etc as they age which leads to wrinkles, weak bones/muscles, low sex drive, low energy, low mood/irritability, etc.


 Unfortunately when I put that on a few years ago, she just totally blanked it.

Second part sounds exactly what I need to say, nice and simple, I don't think I would have been able to think of that and make it way more complicated than it is. Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Fattynomore said:


> Unfortunately when I put that on a few years ago, she just totally blanked it.
> 
> Second part sounds exactly what I need to say, nice and simple, I don't think I would have been able to think of that and make it way more complicated than it is. Thanks.


 Yeah, ask her if she wants a partner that is miserable, depressed, low libido and tired? Or happy, cheerful, energetic with libido on top of all the health benefits for cardiovascular disease.

Do a quick read through of this article to get an idea how beneficial testosterone is for your health, you can show her too:

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/6/testosterone-controversy?fbclid=IwAR3ZhwriOmG1hG1UX33QN_nKSIwC4swv0J3gEyk4Z27Qnyu489KHvoxkqjw


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> First, can you identify why it happened? How flexible are you? Was it outdoor or treadmill?
> 
> You're going to need 3-4 weeks of complete rest, ice it for 20 minutes at least x 3 daily for the first few days. This will help with the pain/inflammation and help it heal faster. You need complete rest. If you want to carefully train your upper body during this time you can, but i would take complete rest. If you rest it well, you can probably come back after 3 weeks.
> 
> You must identify why it happened though to prevent this in the future. Are you flexible in the legs? Can you touch the floor with your hands while standing?


 I've always suffered shin splints and had pains in feet and legs when running. I gained about 30/40lbs of muscle over my 5 years of bodybuilding but never did any cardio/high impact exercise just weight lifting. Since boxing the past year, I've always suffered with pains. My calves insert high on my leg also and my heavy upper body doesn't feel supported. I was running a 3 mile race, some of which was on concrete. This factor plus the poor trainers I was wearing is the reason I tore the soleus, I should have stopped running when the pains were getting bad but tried to finish the race. I'm flexible but flat footed which is another part of the issue. Once back to training in a month or 2 I'll be buying good trainer, insoles and never running on concrete again. Calf training will be 3x per week also from then on.

its the recovery time that I'm going to hate as I get frustrated when I cannot train anything. I've been doing some seated upper body movements and will continue this at least.

hoping I can continue squatting in a few weeks as calves are not really involved in this movement, but obviously do support a lot of the weight.

any other supplements/tips to speed up the recovery of the muscle tear?


----------



## stargazer

ElChapo said:


> Have her watch the documentary "bigger, stronger, faster" so she gets a better understanding of AAS. All the celebrities, movie stars and athletes are enhanced and you have everyone fawning and admiring them for their enhanced physiques/aesthetics.
> 
> Explain to her that the reason young men and women are so healthy and resilient to disease/health problems is due to high levels of hormones that decline with age. This is why older people look older, feel older and get sicker more easily. That's the easiest way to explain it. *Just like a type 1 diabetic need insulin to replace what they don't make or a hypothyroid patient needs thyroid hormone*, men AND women produce less testosterone/estrogen/etc as they age which leads to wrinkles, weak bones/muscles, low sex drive, low energy, low mood/irritability, etc.





ElChapo said:


> Yeah, ask her if she wants a partner that is miserable, depressed, low libido and tired? Or happy, cheerful, energetic with libido on top of all the health benefits for cardiovascular disease.
> 
> Do a quick read through of this article to get an idea how beneficial testosterone is for your health, you can show her too:
> 
> https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/6/testosterone-controversy?fbclid=IwAR3ZhwriOmG1hG1UX33QN_nKSIwC4swv0J3gEyk4Z27Qnyu489KHvoxkqjw


 Are you seriously going to use that analogy?

Are you seriously telling him to try and condone his testosterone abuse to his wife? because anything other than medically prescribed testosterone is abuse, and you claim your occupation is endocrine research! Bullsh1t.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> Your temples aren't going to recede that fast from a change like that. How long have you been on the split injections? How long have you been on nizoral? Is it 2% and how do you use it/how often?
> 
> Splitting dose to x 2 per week usually increases serum levels higher with the same dose, so you can need less when you do x 2 per week. So your total testosterone/DHT/E2 could be higher than once per week 150 mg.


 Switched to split injections 3 weeks ago. Have been using nizoral for the last 9 months every day (2%).

Thats interesting so would you recommend dropping to 100mg per week with 2 injections?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> I've always suffered shin splints and had pains in feet and legs when running. I gained about 30/40lbs of muscle over my 5 years of bodybuilding but never did any cardio/high impact exercise just weight lifting. Since boxing the past year, I've always suffered with pains. My calves insert high on my leg also and my heavy upper body doesn't feel supported. I was running a 3 mile race, some of which was on concrete. This factor plus the poor trainers I was wearing is the reason I tore the soleus, I should have stopped running when the pains were getting bad but tried to finish the race. I'm flexible but flat footed which is another part of the issue. Once back to training in a month or 2 I'll be buying good trainer, insoles and never running on concrete again. Calf training will be 3x per week also from then on.
> 
> its the recovery time that I'm going to hate as I get frustrated when I cannot train anything. I've been doing some seated upper body movements and will continue this at least.
> 
> hoping I can continue squatting in a few weeks as calves are not really involved in this movement, but obviously do support a lot of the weight.
> 
> any other supplements/tips to speed up the recovery of the muscle tear?


 Were you training prior to the race or did you jump in unprepared? You need to work on getting flexible in the calves and hamstrings as well as hip flexors and ankles. The basic stretches like touching your toes will stretch the calves/hamstrings, deep squat and holding will stretch the hip flexors and ankles. This will prevent issues. I don't like running outside, lots of strain on the joints and the uneven ground can cause injuries if your legs are unprepared.

I know the feeling of frustration but rejoice that you can put this behind you, if you don't rest it properly it can be come a chronic/permanent injury and/or require surgery. Do not touch squats until you are fully healed. Calfs are very involved in squats even if you don't "feel them". When you get back, start a bit lighter on yourlegs and rebuild your strength, make sure to work on getting your calves, hammies, ankles and hip flexors very flexible, this will protect you from shin splints and more muscle tears/ligament/sprains.

Vitamin C 1000 mg , zinc 30-50 mg, maintenance calories/moderate-high protein will increase wound healing capacity.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Switched to split injections 3 weeks ago. Have been using nizoral for the last 9 months every day (2%).
> 
> Thats interesting so would you recommend dropping to 100mg per week with 2 injections?


 3 weeks is not enough time for that to happen due to the injection switch, but you may need less mg per week with the higher frequency.

Are you massaging the nizoral into the temples/crown and leaving it in for 5 minutes? Make sure to use a liberal amount as well.

I don't recommend anything without lab work. I don't know your labs on 150 mg split x 2 per week. If your testosterone is over 1,000 ng/dL, then you could drop to 100 mg per week. Optimal range for most men is 700-1000 ng/dL, some guys go a bit higher but then HDL takes a hit, hematocrit goes up, and other issues like acne, BPH, and hair thinning are more likely to happen.


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> 3 weeks is not enough time for that to happen due to the injection switch, but you may need less mg per week with the higher frequency.
> 
> Are you massaging the nizoral into the temples/crown and leaving it in for 5 minutes? Make sure to use a liberal amount as well.
> 
> I don't recommend anything without lab work. I don't know your labs on 150 mg split x 2 per week. If your testosterone is over 1,000 ng/dL, then you could drop to 100 mg per week. Optimal range for most men is 700-1000 ng/dL, some guys go a bit higher but then HDL takes a hit, hematocrit goes up, and other issues like acne, BPH, and hair thinning are more likely to happen.


 Yeah the nizoral i rub in hard into the scalp, it has kept my heair perfectly for the last 9 months, the only change was the injection frequency. I switched to 1/2 inch 29 g pins. Maybe its not reaching the muscle and going subq if im not lean enough? could this cause issues?


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Yeah the nizoral i rub in hard into the scalp, it has kept my heair perfectly for the last 9 months, the only change was the injection frequency. I switched to 1/2 inch 29 g pins. Maybe its not reaching the muscle and going subq if im not lean enough? could this cause issues?


 The only possibility is that you need less testosterone now. More frequent injections = less mg needed to reach the same levels.

Are you injecting delts? Those will usually go IM, especially if you hold in place 20-30 seconds after injection to prevent leak. SQ leads to lower serum levels most of the time.


----------



## Fattynomore

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, ask her if she wants a partner that is miserable, depressed, low libido and tired? Or happy, cheerful, energetic with libido on top of all the health benefits for cardiovascular disease.
> 
> Do a quick read through of this article to get an idea how beneficial testosterone is for your health, you can show her too:
> 
> https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/6/testosterone-controversy?fbclid=IwAR3ZhwriOmG1hG1UX33QN_nKSIwC4swv0J3gEyk4Z27Qnyu489KHvoxkqjw


 Funnily enough I've been all of those minus the low libido but just didn't want it due to being in a rut, so you could imagine her finding the cialis went well.

Good read, will get a better look later


----------



## Phil114

Hi El Chapo,

*
Hi guys, I've had my 5 weeks post last shot blood test. During this time I've had nothing as I wait for the Easter to clear as I am following dr Dean's pct method. Now it seems some test is still left in my system but lh fsh seem to be recovering so on this basis do I let my body recover naturally instead of the hcg clomid nolva route as per Dean's pct?
*

[IMG alt="Screenshot_20191125-191127_Samsung Internet.jpg" data-fileid="177827"]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_11/5ddc4660d993d_Screenshot_20191125-191127_SamsungInternet.thumb.jpg.fdddcb6c4346895286128ef943d38475.jpg[/IMG]







Quote




Edit


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Hi El Chapo,
> 
> *
> Hi guys, I've had my 5 weeks post last shot blood test. During this time I've had nothing as I wait for the Easter to clear as I am following dr Dean's pct method. Now it seems some test is still left in my system but lh fsh seem to be recovering so on this basis do I let my body recover naturally instead of the hcg clomid nolva route as per Dean's pct?
> *
> 
> [IMG alt="Screenshot_20191125-191127_Samsung Internet.jpg" data-fileid="177827"]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_11/5ddc4660d993d_Screenshot_20191125-191127_SamsungInternet.thumb.jpg.fdddcb6c4346895286128ef943d38475.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit


 I don't know what dean PCT is. My recommended PCT protocol is HCG 1,500 from day 1 of cycle start to 2 weeks after your last shot. Start clomid 50 mg/nolvadex 20 mg for 4-8 weeks on the day of your last injection. This is based on Dr. Scally power PCT.

Your testosterone levels do look pretty good post-cycle. How much were you taking on cycle? Pretty sure this is your own natural production at this point, especially with the LH/FSH at those levels.


----------



## Phil114

Hi EL Chapo, I was on 300mg a week for 6 months. Dean's pct is as followed wait 5-6 weeks for test ester to clear then 20 days of hcg injecting 2000 IU every two days for 20 days, aromasin taken during hcg the bloods to assess lh fsh test levels if test levels are in range then look to start clomid therapy. Was it be possible to recover this quickly after a 6 month cycle?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapocould you comment on the attached bloods. Taken Thurs morning, currently running 330mg test e Monday and the same Thursday for the mast three weeks at the end of an 12 week blast where the dose was the same. Winny was used for six weeks of the cycle at 50mg daily, however the mast week was 100mg daily. I hadn't trained three days prior to the blood test and was slightly dehydrated.

Based on the test and estrogen levels could you advise if you think the test I take is dosed correctly, and if you think that I should be using an ai in the future for that dose.

I'm dropping to trt now for two months, I take tuudca and max whilst on cycle, I walk 4 miles daily with work but also do 3*35min sscv each week.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo Is tbol safe for hair loss? Its the only oral (apart from dbol) that isnt some sort of dht derivative (and also has a low androgen profile) so assume it would be safe?

My hair thinned on anavar which is supposed to be mild. Hoping that tbol wont give me issues


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo

Hi mate. My girlfriend hair has shortened around 3 inches in the last year due to minimal bleaching. She's very conscious of the bleaching and always leaves big time in between, but it won't grow. She's wasted about £400 on Viviscal Hair Growth tablets (told her not too) and now she's considering £300 hair extensions.

Would a 6 month run of HGH, say 6 to 9 IU a week help her hair get the length? Or any other proven suggestions?


----------



## ElChapo

Phil114 said:


> Hi EL Chapo, I was on 300mg a week for 6 months. Dean's pct is as followed wait 5-6 weeks for test ester to clear then 20 days of hcg injecting 2000 IU every two days for 20 days, aromasin taken during hcg the bloods to assess lh fsh test levels if test levels are in range then look to start clomid therapy. Was it be possible to recover this quickly after a 6 month cycle?


 It doesn't really make sense because your body is already going to produce gonadotropins on it's own and taking HCG will can block this. The dose is pretty excessive as well, you might as well take half of that cash and invest it into HMG and take less HCG with that.

One 6 month of cycle of 300 mg should not have been too suppressive, it would have been much better if you ran HCG with the testosterone so that you were never fully shutdown. Your levels look pretty decent though for post-cycle, but we don't know how high your natural levels are. They could have been double or that or about the same. That's why pre-cycle labs are an excellent idea before your first cycle and any cycle that involves PCT at the end.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapocould you comment on the attached bloods. Taken Thurs morning, currently running 330mg test e Monday and the same Thursday for the mast three weeks at the end of an 12 week blast where the dose was the same. Winny was used for six weeks of the cycle at 50mg daily, however the mast week was 100mg daily. I hadn't trained three days prior to the blood test and was slightly dehydrated.
> 
> Based on the test and estrogen levels could you advise if you think the test I take is dosed correctly, and if you think that I should be using an ai in the future for that dose.
> 
> I'm dropping to trt now for two months, I take tuudca and max whilst on cycle, I walk 4 miles daily with work but also do 3*35min sscv each week.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 177829
> 
> 
> View attachment 177831
> 
> 
> View attachment 177833
> 
> 
> View attachment 177837
> 
> 
> View attachment 177839


 Testosterone is legit, labs look good. You can run 0.5-1 mg PER WEEK of adex next time for E2 that high, but how did you feel on the cycle?

You are very hypothyroid. Your Free Thyroxine is very very low.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo Is tbol safe for hair loss? Its the only oral (apart from dbol) that isnt some sort of dht derivative (and also has a low androgen profile) so assume it would be safe?
> 
> My hair thinned on anavar which is supposed to be mild. Hoping that tbol wont give me issues


 Likely fairly safe. Anavar is a DHT derivative, they tend to be the worst. (Winstrol/Masteron) They believe the mechanism is upregulated TGF-B1 levels. Make sure to run the nizoral 2%.


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hi mate. My girlfriend hair has shortened around 3 inches in the last year due to minimal bleaching. She's very conscious of the bleaching and always leaves big time in between, but it won't grow. She's wasted about £400 on Viviscal Hair Growth tablets (told her not too) and now she's considering £300 hair extensions.
> 
> Would a 6 month run of HGH, say 6 to 9 IU a week help her hair get the length? Or any other proven suggestions?


 Did i answer a question about hair for you before? Sounds familiar.

A hormone panel is a good idea as well as vitamins/iron. There may be a vitamin/mineral/hormone deficiency. What is her age?

HGH is unlikely to do what your looking for and is overkill.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Testosterone is legit, labs look good. You can run 0.5-1 mg PER WEEK of adex next time for E2 that high, but how did you feel on the cycle?
> 
> You are very hypothyroid. Your Free Thyroxine is very very low.


 I feel great, no complaints at all on the cy ke, if anything I'd say my mood, libido and everything is better with this brand that what I've used before. Does my cholesterol look bad as I've no idea what's considered bad etc.

I'll speak to my gp regarding the thyroid results and do another thyroid test in six weeks


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I feel great, no complaints at all on the cy ke, if anything I'd say my mood, libido and everything is better with this brand that what I've used before. Does my cholesterol look bad as I've no idea what's considered bad etc.
> 
> I'll speak to my gp regarding the thyroid results and do another thyroid test in six weeks


 A great example of why E2 is so important. Without estradiol, you don't feel the mental benefits of testosterone.

Your doctor will probably say you are fine because your TSH is in range, but you are very hypothyroid. Cholesterol will always take a hit on higher than TRT doses of testosterone and winstrol is one of the harshest on lipids, masteron might hit them too.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> A great example of why E2 is so important. Without estradiol, you don't feel the mental benefits of testosterone.
> 
> Your doctor will probably say you are fine because your TSH is in range, but you are very hypothyroid. Cholesterol will always take a hit on higher than TRT doses of testosterone and winstrol is one of the harshest on lipids, masteron might hit them too.


 That's very interesting regarding E2 etc as I've previously used aromasin eod at 25mg when on cycle regardless of the blast which I stopped after reading your previous answers, and oddly a shoulder injury cleared up to almost 90% four months on, so I was tanking my E2. That maybe has affected the thyroid as I read aisbcab do this?

So you think cholesterol will normalise when I drop the doses etc? Other than cardio what's the top things to lower cholesterol?

Thanks again.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> A great example of why E2 is so important. Without estradiol, you don't feel the mental benefits of testosterone.
> 
> Your doctor will probably say you are fine because your TSH is in range, but you are very hypothyroid. Cholesterol will always take a hit on higher than TRT doses of testosterone and winstrol is one of the harshest on lipids, masteron might hit them too.


 That's very interesting regarding E2 etc as I've previously used aromasin eod at 25mg when on cycle regardless of the blast which I stopped after reading your previous answers, and oddly a shoulder injury cleared up to almost 90% four months on, so I was tanking my E2. That maybe has affected the thyroid as I read aisbcab do this?

So you think cholesterol will normalise when I drop the doses etc? Other than cardio what's the top things to lower cholesterol?

Thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> That's very interesting regarding E2 etc as I've previously used aromasin eod at 25mg when on cycle regardless of the blast which I stopped after reading your previous answers, and oddly a shoulder injury cleared up to almost 90% four months on, so I was tanking my E2. That maybe has affected the thyroid as I read aisbcab do this?
> 
> So you think cholesterol will normalise when I drop the doses etc? Other than cardio what's the top things to lower cholesterol?
> 
> Thanks again.


 Yes, HDL drops from high TRT doses. 50-75 mg TRT x 2 per week (100-150 mg ) is ideal for most people to get levels to optimal but prevents drops in HDL, and increases in heart rate/BP/hematocrit.

Cardio, fish oil, red wine (or light alcohol consumption) can increase HDL as well.

Testosterone/estrogen relation to thyroid is complex, generally they decrease thyroid function if borderline by affecting thyroid binding proteins.


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> Yes, HDL drops from high TRT doses. 50-75 mg TRT x 2 per week (100-150 mg ) is ideal for most people to get levels to optimal but prevents drops in HDL, and increases in heart rate/BP/hematocrit


 Would a once a week jab have the same effect?


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> Would a once a week jab have the same effect?


 The half life is 5-8 days depending on genetics. So many people get a large spike and have low or low-normal levels by the end of the week or second half of the week.

x 2 per week provides extremely stable levels with enanthate/cypionate and higher serum testosterone levels with less mg per week.


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

Sibutramine is known to interact with Ketoconazole (Nizoral). Would the interaction yield any noticeable effects, such as a loss in absorption/effectiveness?


----------



## aftermath

Hi @ElChapo, for most people who cycle AAS for health/fertility reasons (as compared to b&c), would it be beneficial to come down to a TRT/cruise dose for a few extra weeks at the end of a cycle to "lock in" the gains made on that cycle before transitioning to a PCT?

Let's just say Cycle A of 12 week test 500 + oral cycle, followed by 6-8 weeks of TRT 150, then PCT, in comparison to Cycle B of 12 week test 500 + oral cycle, straight into PCT.

I'm inclined to think Cycle A would better preserve the new muscle accumulated over the cycle more so than Cycle B, but because the user is shut down for a longer period, a longer/less complete HPTA recovery might actually make the user worse off after PCT. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!


----------



## Sasnak

ElChapo said:


> The half life is 5-8 days depending on genetics. So many people get a large spike and have low or low-normal levels by the end of the week or second half of the week.
> 
> x 2 per week provides extremely stable levels with enanthate/cypionate and higher serum testosterone levels with less mg per week.


 I meant the effect on HDL levels and Heamatocrit. Would only jabbing weekly throw those out and 2 x weekly be optimal for that. Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Sibutramine is known to interact with Ketoconazole (Nizoral). Would the interaction yield any noticeable effects, such as a loss in absorption/effectiveness?


 These interactions do NOT apply to topical nizoral. Oral nizoral is rarely used, it's liver toxic.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Hi @ElChapo, for most people who cycle AAS for health/fertility reasons (as compared to b&c), would it be beneficial to come down to a TRT/cruise dose for a few extra weeks at the end of a cycle to "lock in" the gains made on that cycle before transitioning to a PCT?
> 
> Let's just say Cycle A of 12 week test 500 + oral cycle, followed by 6-8 weeks of TRT 150, then PCT, in comparison to Cycle B of 12 week test 500 + oral cycle, straight into PCT.
> 
> I'm inclined to think Cycle A would better preserve the new muscle accumulated over the cycle more so than Cycle B, but because the user is shut down for a longer period, a longer/less complete HPTA recovery might actually make the user worse off after PCT. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!


 No, the best way to "lock in" muscle and strength gains is 1. Eat at maintenance 2. Strive to lift the same amount of weight through PCT and beyond as you did on cycle, the closer you stay to this, the more muscle you will preserve. 3. Running HGH will have a powerful muscle/strength preserving effect. 3-4 IU daily.


----------



## ElChapo

Sasnak said:


> I meant the effect on HDL levels and Heamatocrit. Would only jabbing weekly throw those out and 2 x weekly be optimal for that. Thanks


 Generally, a lower spike causes like side effects in the hematocrit department. HDL maybe/maybe not. HDL starts to take a hit at 200 mg and beyond for testosterone but the effect is also genetic along with the increase in red blood cell production. Lifestyle factors like exercise, smoking, sleep apnea, diet and alcohol consumption can also have an effect.


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo what would you do on this cut of Test Tren and Mast

week 2 - 10 = 50mg Var & 50mg Winny daily

Or

week 2 -6 = 100mg Var

week 6-10 = 50mg Winnie


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo what would you do on this cut of Test Tren and Mast
> 
> week 2 - 10 = 50mg Var & 50mg Winny daily
> 
> Or
> 
> week 2 -6 = 100mg Var
> 
> week 6-10 = 50mg Winnie


 It doesn't matter as muscle will be preserved the same as that's the goal of the cut. You will look way better on 50/50 var/winny. 50 mg winny sucks water out and makes you harder. I would do the first stack myself


----------



## pma111

Are hormone deficiencies / low levels e.g. thyroid/testosterone fairly common amongst the general public especially in the under 40s. It has been quite enlightening reading your feedback on peoples blood works and not always those on AAS on just how many have thyroid/androgen levels etc. I just wondered what other common factors (those not linked to AAS) can cause lower levels of key hormones in the under 40s e.g. thyroid/testosterone etc and if theres much that can be done about it (naturally/lifestyle) or if its just 'one of those things' for some people.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo without trying to go too much in circles here, I plan on staying on a lower dose of HGH permanently.

From a long term health / safety point of view, would you aim for levels in the 300 or 350 range?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Are hormone deficiencies / low levels e.g. thyroid/testosterone fairly common amongst the general public especially in the under 40s. It has been quite enlightening reading your feedback on peoples blood works and not always those on AAS on just how many have thyroid/androgen levels etc. I just wondered what other common factors (those not linked to AAS) can cause lower levels of key hormones in the under 40s e.g. thyroid/testosterone etc and if theres much that can be done about it (naturally/lifestyle) or if its just 'one of those things' for some people.


 There are many endocrine disruptors in our modern environment we didn't have in the past, pesticides/herbicides, pollution, plastics/bpa, soy, medications SSRI/birth control prescribed like candy. These things all disrupt our natural hormone levels and cause physical and psychological harm to our bodies. Some are more sensitive than others to this disruption.

It's just stuff you find everywhere, your best bet is to exercise, eat a balanced diet (no low fat/low carb/no meat non-sense), supplement hard to get vitamins/minerals like vitamin D/Zinc, and get good restful sleep/avoid excess stress and overtraining.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo without trying to go too much in circles here, I plan on staying on a lower dose of HGH permanently.
> 
> From a long term health / safety point of view, would you aim for levels in the 300 or 350 range?


 Mid 200s- low 300s. You can prevent the insulin sensitivity impairement by lifting+cardio+staying lean. These IGF-1 levels will prevent wrinkles and keep your skin younger looking among other benefits.


----------



## Playtowin

@El Chapo

Hi mate. Massive thanks for all your help as alway.

I've recently tried a veggie diet for 2 weeks and found it enjoyable. Lots of Indian food (rice, lentils, potato's) and the usual eggs, milk.

I am cutting on 2250 cals and can't for the life of me get over 160g of protein and be under my deficit. I average even less and this is including 3 whey shakes a day.

I weigh 217lbs , will I keep muscle on around 140g of protein if I'm on 350 test, 350 tren and 350 mast?

Minimal cardio and strength training 5 days a week


----------



## Brick

@ElChapo

In general, what's more likely to inhibit SHBG production more, injectables or orals?


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo good morning

I ordered Vit K supplement from Life Extensions. I have Super K which includes two types of K2 along with K1. Is K1 beneficial as I've read this doesn't have much benefit to heart/arterial health (more research needed).

It's part of heart stack made up of cardio, ground flax, Carlson's fish oil/evoo daily.

Thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hi mate. Massive thanks for all your help as alway.
> 
> I've recently tried a veggie diet for 2 weeks and found it enjoyable. Lots of Indian food (rice, lentils, potato's) and the usual eggs, milk.
> 
> I am cutting on 2250 cals and can't for the life of me get over 160g of protein and be under my deficit. I average even less and this is including 3 whey shakes a day.
> 
> I weigh 217lbs , will I keep muscle on around 140g of protein if I'm on 350 test, 350 tren and 350 mast?
> 
> Minimal cardio and strength training 5 days a week


 The rule of thumb is 1-1.5 grams per lbs of LEAN body mass. So that's your total weight subtracted by your approximate body fat percentage.

I would do the calculation for you but i don't know what % of that 217 is lean vs fat mass. You can get pea protein powder, which is just as effective as whey protein. The AAS also give you some leeway on how much protein you need of course.

MRM brand is excellent quality and value.


----------



## ElChapo

Brick said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> In general, what's more likely to inhibit SHBG production more, injectables or orals?


 Always orals, SHBG is produced in the liver. The first pass metabolism hits the liver hard with androgenic activity which is why they reduce HDL cholesterol and SHBG so hard and fast.


----------



## ElChapo

PSevens2017 said:


> @ElChapo good morning
> 
> I ordered Vit K supplement from Life Extensions. I have Super K which includes two types of K2 along with K1. Is K1 beneficial as I've read this doesn't have much benefit to heart/arterial health (more research needed).
> 
> It's part of heart stack made up of cardio, ground flax, Carlson's fish oil/evoo daily.
> 
> Thanks mate


 K1 doesn't hurt and there have been benefits linked to higher K1 consumption. K1 is the version of vitamin K found in leafy greens. Our bodies converts it to vitamin K2. K2 MK4 is found in eggs and organ means. K2 MK7 is found in Natto.

Eggs are actually quite rich in Vitamin K2 at about 20-32 mcg per large egg. The target consumption level is about 100-200 mcg vitamin K2 per day.


----------



## Playtowin

ElChapo said:


> The rule of thumb is 1-1.5 grams per lbs of LEAN body mass. So that's your total weight subtracted by your approximate body fat percentage.
> 
> I would do the calculation for you but i don't know what % of that 217 is lean vs fat mass. You can get pea protein powder, which is just as effective as whey protein. The AAS also give you some leeway on how much protein you need of course.
> 
> MRM brand is excellent quality and value.


 Thanks mate @El Chapo

Got my fat and muscle tested via trained 7 skin fold calliper test on Monday

(Latest result is the right hand lane showing 18% body fat)


----------



## ElChapo

Playtowin said:


> Thanks mate @El Chapo
> 
> Got my fat and muscle tested via trained 7 skin fold calliper test on Monday
> 
> (Latest result is the right hand lane showing 18% body fat)
> 
> View attachment 177899


 So your protein target would be something like 170-200 g per day but you would likely be fine on 150 g.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Sure, as long as you are taking enough insulin to shuttle in the nutrients and not too much to cause hypoglycemia episode. Not sure why the third shot has no insulin?


 Tbh don't know that too maybe they didn't include 500mg Metformin before bed....

Do you think it's ok to inject insulin also before bed? I doubt that 5iu of HumalinR will put anyone on hypo...


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Tbh don't know that too maybe they didn't include 500mg Metformin before bed....
> 
> Do you think it's ok to inject insulin also before bed? I doubt that 5iu of HumalinR will put anyone on hypo...


 Without food, bad idea. With food before bed makes sense, Sleep is a very anabolic window, so while you absorb nutrients/recover insulin would be working.

Without food though, you risk hypoglycemia in your sleep. Pre-bed food improves sleep generally, so it works.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Without food, bad idea. With food before bed makes sense, Sleep is a very anabolic window, so while you absorb nutrients/recover insulin would be working.
> 
> Without food though, you risk hypoglycemia in your sleep. Pre-bed food improves sleep generally, so it works.


 Thanks a lot mate! Now have everything dialed in <3


----------



## Miki_Cro_94

Hy guys, don't want to opet new topic 4 this one.. But I'm wondering, here in my country(CROATIA) there's no estrogen sensitive test, only Roche Eclia methot, thing is I'm wondering does deca/NPP show up as estrogen on bloodwork, currently running 420/280 test prop/NPP and I'd like to check my e2 levels, I saw somewhere on YT that guys had normal levels of e2 on DECA ONLY cycles, but it was low or non existing on estrogen sensitive test.. So I'm wondering if it does show up, by how much, because for example on Tren its impossible to even check e2 levels..


----------



## ElChapo

Miki_Cro_94 said:


> Hy guys, don't want to opet new topic 4 this one.. But I'm wondering, here in my country(CROATIA) there's no estrogen sensitive test, only Roche Eclia methot, thing is I'm wondering does deca/NPP show up as estrogen on bloodwork, currently running 420/280 test prop/NPP and I'd like to check my e2 levels, I saw somewhere on YT that guys had normal levels of e2 on DECA ONLY cycles, but it was low or non existing on estrogen sensitive test.. So I'm wondering if it does show up, by how much, because for example on Tren its impossible to even check e2 levels..


 I haven't seen evidence that it does, DECA/NPP can also aromatize like testosterone into estrogen though, but at a lower rate. Don't worry too much over E2 levels. People are having bigger issues because of killing their E2 than too much E2.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo is there any protocol for swapping from short to long Esters? Should I keep on injecting a smaller dose of the short Ester while the Enanthate builds up in my system, or straight swap?

cheers


----------



## trio

@El Chapo

What do you think is the best cycle for a Brazilian Jiu jitsui athlete (BJJ), increase recovery, minimise muscle pumps and stronger?

Test prop? Test E? Orals?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo is there any protocol for swapping from short to long Esters? Should I keep on injecting a smaller dose of the short Ester while the Enanthate builds up in my system, or straight swap?
> 
> cheers


 Straight swap works fine, it's not a big deal if there's any temporary overlap.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What do you think is the best cycle for a Brazilian Jiu jitsui athlete (BJJ), increase recovery, minimise muscle pumps and stronger?
> 
> Test prop? Test E? Orals?


 200-300 mg test prop or 150-200 mg test prop+winstrol or anavar 20 mg.


----------



## trio

ElChapo said:


> 200-300 mg test prop or 150-200 mg test prop+winstrol or anavar 20 mg.


 @El ChapoThanks for the speedy response!

1. What days would you take the test prop on and how much mg per jab? Some people say M/W/F. Some say Every 3 days.

2. Would the Anavar and Winny not give too much pumps?

3. How long would you stay on this cycle? Intetions to compete year round.


----------



## shay1490

I am currently over 2 months into a test cycle, and im baffled as to why im losing strenght, for example last sunday I could bench 100kg x 12, and today i could only get 4 reps, this is a huge decrease.

I was previously using Nexus T300 at 600mg a week but stopped because of bad pip, but it was good, i just couldn't train legs, switched to Pharmacom T300 , same dosage 5 weeks ago. Could it be that it's less dosed?


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El ChapoThanks for the speedy response!
> 
> 1. What days would you take the test prop on and how much mg per jab? Some people say M/W/F. Some say Every 3 days.
> 
> 2. Would the Anavar and Winny not give too much pumps?
> 
> 3. How long would you stay on this cycle? Intetions to compete year round.


 x 2 per week minimum, monday/wed/fri works well too. Some people think you need to do every other day or daily but that's not true.

This is low dose anavar and winstrol along with low dose testosterone, you aren't taking +500 mg. If pumps are still there, drop the oral dose in half.

You can time it with your training camps for competition and run it into competition. 8-16 weeks is good, run NAC+TUDCA at 1000/500 mg for liver protection. You can take a break after competition to let your liver rest, lipids recover, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> I am currently over 2 months into a test cycle, and im baffled as to why im losing strenght, for example last sunday I could bench 100kg x 12, and today i could only get 4 reps, this is a huge decrease.
> 
> I was previously using Nexus T300 at 600mg a week but stopped because of bad pip, but it was good, i just couldn't train legs, switched to Pharmacom T300 , same dosage 5 weeks ago. Could it be that it's less dosed?


 It could be many things, most commonly we have bad workouts. It's called the 20% rule. Assume that 20% of your workouts are going to suck for whatever reason, and i find this to be true. Try again next week and see how you feel. Pharmacom is pretty legit but it's also possible nexus was overdosed. Try again next week, you may have just had a bad workout.

Did you add any extra volumes, sets or workout since the 100 kg x 12 bench? Any sleep or diet differences? I doubt a dosage change from 5 weeks had this effect, especially with pharmacom, but if nexus was pipping it's possible it was overdosed.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> It doesn't matter as muscle will be preserved the same as that's the goal of the cut. You will look way better on 50/50 var/winny. 50 mg winny sucks water out and makes you harder. I would do the first stack myself


 Alright boss,

If 50 mg winny sucks water out and makes you harder, what will the var do?

Would it be ok to run the above for 8 weeks?

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Alright boss,
> 
> If 50 mg winny sucks water out and makes you harder, what will the var do?
> 
> Would it be ok to run the above for 8 weeks?
> 
> Cheers.


 Var can also dry you out but also pump you up. The drying effect is not as strong. Var is safer for liver and lipids. You can run for 8 weeks but should run TUDCA/NAC to keep the liver protected and avoid drinking alcohol and medications that are liver toxic like tylenol.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> Var can also dry you out but also pump you up. The drying effect is not as strong. Var is safer for liver and lipids. You can run for 8 weeks but should run TUDCA/NAC to keep the liver protected and avoid drinking alcohol and medications that are liver toxic like tylenol.


 Cheers mate. I already take STROM support Max when using orals.

Last Q, I have my first BB show next year. From the beginning of Jan I have 34 weeks till the comp. Would you cut nice and slow with strategic diet breaks etc placed in or do a harsh cut early on, in order to get yourself in a prime place to start a 16 week prep?

I'm 36, 5" 10 and approx. 20% body fat. I'm no stranger to dieting, I used to be a proper fatty (22 stone).


----------



## strawberry123

Hi @ElChapo diet not drug related question this time. Due to my job (postman) I literally have to slam in 5000 cals daily to make the scales budge even slightly. At the moment I'm high carb but I notice some mornings I wake up very watery and blurred physique. Almost like a spillover type effect

should I try replacing some carbs with fats ( for example reducing rice and swapping 5% to 15% mince?)

thank You in advance


----------



## ElChapo

Endomorph84 said:


> Cheers mate. I already take STROM support Max when using orals.
> 
> Last Q, I have my first BB show next year. From the beginning of Jan I have 34 weeks till the comp. Would you cut nice and slow with strategic diet breaks etc placed in or do a harsh cut early on, in order to get yourself in a prime place to start a 16 week prep?
> 
> I'm 36, 5" 10 and approx. 20% body fat. I'm no stranger to dieting, I used to be a proper fatty (22 stone).


 I don't have any comp or comp coaching experience so i'm not sure what the best approach is. 20% body fat is much too high though, you want to stay between 6-15% year round. There is no benefit and only drawbacks to being over 15% ( Loss of muscle definition/seperation, decreased insulin sensitivity, higher risk of blood pressure issues, etc). Staying between 6-15% will not only have you looking good year round but you will be a much quicker cut away from being ripped versus starting from 20%.

Longer harsh cuts with dirty bulks take their toll and waste a lot of time that can be spent focusing on other things. It's best to stay relatively lean year round. My priority in your case would be to get to 15% and under and stay there forever. Find a reputable BB coach with great client results.


----------



## Endomorph84

ElChapo said:


> I don't have any comp or comp coaching experience so i'm not sure what the best approach is. 20% body fat is much too high though, you want to stay between 6-15% year round. There is no benefit and only drawbacks to being over 15% ( Loss of muscle definition/seperation, decreased insulin sensitivity, higher risk of blood pressure issues, etc). Staying between 6-15% will not only have you looking good year round but you will be a much quicker cut away from being ripped versus starting from 20%.
> 
> Longer harsh cuts with dirty bulks take their toll and waste a lot of time that can be spent focusing on other things. It's best to stay relatively lean year round. My priority in your case would be to get to 15% and under and stay there forever. Find a reputable BB coach with great client results.


 I'm getting there mate, cheers


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> Hi @ElChapo diet not drug related question this time. Due to my job (postman) I literally have to slam in 5000 cals daily to make the scales budge even slightly. At the moment I'm high carb but I notice some mornings I wake up very watery and blurred physique. Almost like a spillover type effect
> 
> should I try replacing some carbs with fats ( for example reducing rice and swapping 5% to 15% mince?)
> 
> thank You in advance


 What is your approximate body fat %? If you are very lean, water retention is much less likely. If using enanthate/cypionate, this can cause a lot of water retention in some people too.


----------



## strawberry123

ElChapo said:


> What is your approximate body fat %? If you are very lean, water retention is much less likely. If using enanthate/cypionate, this can cause a lot of water retention in some people too.


 Not sure of a percentage but I have visible abs on the mornings after my days off work where I've had about 400g less carbs than work days. After a high carb day in the morning these can be very distorted, at first I thought it was fat gain but it comes and goes

im pretty sure it's not the drugs, as Surely that would be a more consistent film of water not fluctuating as much


----------



## pma111

1.If lab work showed elevated CRP (c-reactive protein) on a few occassions i.e not something that had resolved itself over the course of a few weeks what should a good Dr do as investigation work to see what the root cause may be/common causes (AAS not a factor/used).

2.Is there anything that may lower it supplement/natural wise significantly, or is a safer bet see what the GP prescribes and what would that likely be? E.g would really high levels mean supplements would not really make a significant enough dent.

3.Is it dangerous if left uresolved over a period of time?

Thanks


----------



## Doitagain

@ElChapo

You mentioned many people who love replacing test with EQ.

Granted it' drier and can make you look Better overall, but what about the lack of useful Test's metabolites?

Can It really effectively replaced It in all/most features?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> Not sure of a percentage but I have visible abs on the mornings after my days off work where I've had about 400g less carbs than work days. After a high carb day in the morning these can be very distorted, at first I thought it was fat gain but it comes and goes
> 
> im pretty sure it's not the drugs, as Surely that would be a more consistent film of water not fluctuating as much


 Remember, you're not supposed to look ripped/dry/shredded 24/7. It's a dysmorphia caused by instagram/magazines where people are dried out on diuretics, have good lighting and only taking the best pictures.

If you want less water retention, propionate causes significantly less than enanthate/cypionate.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> 1.If lab work showed elevated CRP (c-reactive protein) on a few occassions i.e not something that had resolved itself over the course of a few weeks what should a good Dr do as investigation work to see what the root cause may be/common causes (AAS not a factor/used).
> 
> 2.Is there anything that may lower it supplement/natural wise significantly, or is a safer bet see what the GP prescribes and what would that likely be? E.g would really high levels mean supplements would not really make a significant enough dent.
> 
> 3.Is it dangerous if left uresolved over a period of time?
> 
> Thanks


 Do you do cardiovascular exercise? How is your blood pressure? Body fat percentage? Lifestyle, etc. Have you ever tested HbA1c?


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> You mentioned many people who love replacing test with EQ.
> 
> Granted it' drier and can make you look Better overall, but what about the lack of useful Test's metabolites?
> 
> Can It really effectively replaced It in all/most features?


 It can make you drier, a bodybuilder's priority isn't health so they don't care so much about metabolites, but EQ can still provide some of those. You get DHB instead of DHT. Supposedly it still turns to E2 as well, but at a lower rate than testosterone.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> It can make you drier, a bodybuilder's priority isn't health so they don't care so much about metabolites, but EQ can still provide some of those. You get DHB instead of DHT. Supposedly it still turns to E2 as well, but at a lower rate than testosterone.


 I know on paper It turns into DHB, but as far as I've read EQ Is an extremely poor substrate for 5-AR, and 5-BR metabolites are basically inert.


----------



## Jordan08

ElChapo said:


> It can make you drier, a bodybuilder's priority isn't health so they don't care so much about metabolites, but EQ can still provide some of those. You get DHB instead of DHT. Supposedly it still turns to E2 as well, but at a lower rate than testosterone.


 What are your views on Deca as HRT rather than Test?


----------



## terrortactics

What would u suggest for a hard 20 week lean bulk thats low on bloating to get back in the game after being out for a couple years for various reasons. Without primobolan.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> Do you do cardiovascular exercise? How is your blood pressure? Body fat percentage? Lifestyle, etc. Have you ever tested HbA1c?


 Yeah 30-40 mins daily excercise bike and 30 minute brisk walk every day without fail. Blood pressure is within range based on a monitor I purchased and test regularly. If I've done the calculator properly its 18%. Not excessive with alcohol etc. No but I can get that sorted if it would be worthwhile.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> What are your views on Deca as HRT rather than Test?


 It can work, however, long-term side effects/health consequences are unknown. It's like women who use birth control AKA synthetic progestins which are linked to negative health out comes wherein real progesterone has many health benefits. Deca HRT is likely healthier than very low testosterone in the long run, as long the dose isn't excessively high.

People love throwing around this study/paper claiming nandrolone is "x 100 times more toxic to the heart" which is BS because that study was done "in vitro" AKA on cells, not in a living organism at physiological level with SHBG and other binding proteins and enzymes that metabolize and decreases the potency of the hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

terrortactics said:


> What would u suggest for a hard 20 week lean bulk thats low on bloating to get back in the game after being out for a couple years for various reasons. Without primobolan.


 Test prop 300-500 mg+ winstrol 50 mg oral daily with TUDCA/NAC or superdrol 20 mg oral. Very dry, hard and pumped stack.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Yeah 30-40 mins daily excercise bike and 30 minute brisk walk every day without fail. Blood pressure is within range based on a monitor I purchased and test regularly. If I've done the calculator properly its 18%. Not excessive with alcohol etc. No but I can get that sorted if it would be worthwhile.


 You need to get leaner, high body fat = inflammation. Ideally 10-12% is a good number to reach for and never over 15%.

A1C is a good thing to check, high blood sugar can increase CRP. What is the average BP reading?


----------



## 18650

@El Chapo

You mentioned SHBG & "other binding proteins" a few posts up. I didn't think that SHBG affected any anabolic androgens other than testosterone?

Would you mind educating me further?

Appeciate all you do for us on here brother.


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> You need to get leaner, high body fat = inflammation. Ideally 10-12% is a good number to reach for and never over 15%.
> 
> A1C is a good thing to check, high blood sugar can increase CRP. What is the average BP reading?


 Thanks again. I'll get a weeks worth of BP readings check I'm not misreading things. Is it a case that high BP as well can elevate CRP?

I presume its the old reliables to help with blood sugar... cardio, sensible weight, lifting and berberine?

Would curcumin and anything else help with CRP in the meantime whilst you work toward lower BF or not really?


----------



## ElChapo

18650 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> You mentioned SHBG & "other binding proteins" a few posts up. I didn't think that SHBG affected any anabolic androgens other than testosterone?
> 
> Would you mind educating me further?
> 
> Appeciate all you do for us on here brother.


 SHBG "sex hormone binding globulin" binds to pretty much all steroid hormones and even estradiol.

Happy to share knowledge.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Thanks again. I'll get a weeks worth of BP readings check I'm not misreading things. Is it a case that high BP as well can elevate CRP?
> 
> I presume its the old reliables to help with blood sugar... cardio, sensible weight, lifting and berberine?
> 
> Would curcumin and anything else help with CRP in the meantime whilst you work toward lower BF or not really?


 Elevated CRP is a sign of heart disease/arterial calcification which can be caused by hypertension for one thing. It's a good idea to get a calcium scoring test done. They do imaging of your arteries to see if you have atherosclerosis AKA calfication of the arteries. This is caused by but also exacerbates inflammation of the cardiovascular system. It's a chicken or the egg thing.

Correct, hba1c test is the best way to see if you are pre-diabetic or diabetic.

Curcumin has been linked to lower inflammation and lower CRP.

Cardio, fat loss, etc all reduce inflammation.


----------



## Hosi

@El Chapo

Today was my 8th week with this stack: Test enan 400 mg + winstrol 50 mg oral daily with TUDCA (250 mg).

So I decided to make blood test:

ALT: 38 U/L ( referential 5-41)

AST: 61 U/L ( referential 5-37)

1. I would like to extend using this stack for next for 4 - 8 weeks, do you think that high AST is a problem? When I started cycle ALT = 36, AST = 39.

2. What's your opinion to SHBG and optimal level for building lean mass and sex drive?

I would appriciate your help.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo Very interested in the idea of replacing test with EQ as 'cycle base' any idea on dosages for this purpose?


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Today was my 8th week with this stack: Test enan 400 mg + winstrol 50 mg oral daily with TUDCA (250 mg).
> 
> So I decided to make blood test:
> 
> ALT: 38 U/L ( referential 5-41)
> 
> AST: 61 U/L ( referential 5-37)
> 
> 1. I would like to extend using this stack for next for 4 - 8 weeks, do you think that high AST is a problem? When I started cycle ALT = 36, AST = 39.
> 
> 2. What's your opinion to SHBG and optimal level for building lean mass and sex drive?
> 
> I would appriciate your help.


 1. Not at all, those are fantastic number for week 8 of winstrol. I've seen liver enzymes in the 1000-2000 range. You are fine.

2. Ignore SHBG, it's a stupid fad right now. Look at Free testosterone/Total Testosterone. If free is low due to high SHBG, increase your dose. Testosterone itself can lower SHBG.


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo Very interested in the idea of replacing test with EQ as 'cycle base' any idea on dosages for this purpose?


 Equal dose to testosterone.


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> 1. Not at all, those are fantastic number for week 8 of winstrol. I've seen liver enzymes in the 1000-2000 range. You are fine.
> 
> 2. Ignore SHBG, it's a stupid fad right now. Look at Free testosterone/Total Testosterone. If free is low due to high SHBG, increase your dose. Testosterone itself can lower SHBG.


 Thank you boss

In this week I will do rest of tests so I will know lvl of my SHBG.

1. When according to you is a good idea to increase winstrol dose?
2. What to do when I get flu during cycle? Stop dosing or maybe maintain?


----------



## Oldnewb

@El Chapo

there are varying opinions as to toxicity of trenbolone, if blood pressure is controlled, is it any more toxic / harmful than any other steroid?


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> Thank you boss
> 
> In this week I will do rest of tests so I will know lvl of my SHBG.
> 
> 1. When according to you is a good idea to increase winstrol dose?
> 2. What to do when I get flu during cycle? Stop dosing or maybe maintain?


 1. If you are advanced/elite, you can push to 100 mg daily but most people do not need this much and liver toxicity risk is much higher. 50 mg daily is plenty for most people. You can more safely increase your testosterone/trenbolone/NPP dosage before tapping into 100 mg winstrol. Otherwise, it's an unnecessary risk if you can't put it to use.

2. It's up to you. A legit flu it's best to pause your cycle. You can continue your AAS and make sure you eat maintenance calories/sufficient protein while you recover. Training through sickness is an option, but risk of injury may be higher. You can also do the middle ground approach and train but more lightly/higher volume. There are many options, all with their own advantages.


----------



## ElChapo

Oldnewb said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> there are varying opinions as to toxicity of trenbolone, if blood pressure is controlled, is it any more toxic / harmful than any other steroid?


 It's fairly powerful at knocking down HDL (good cholesterol) and may have some mild liver toxic effect as well, so yes i would rank it higher in toxicity than other steroids. I would call it the most toxic injectable steroid, but not as toxic as halo, methyl-tren, winstrol, or superdrol.


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> 1. If you are advanced/elite, you can push to 100 mg daily but most people do not need this much and liver toxicity risk is much higher. 50 mg daily is plenty for most people. You can more safely increase your testosterone/trenbolone/NPP dosage before tapping into 100 mg winstrol. Otherwise, it's an unnecessary risk if you can't put it to use.
> 
> 2. It's up to you. A legit flu it's best to pause your cycle. You can continue your AAS and make sure you eat maintenance calories/sufficient protein while you recover. Training through sickness is an option, but risk of injury may be higher. You can also do the middle ground approach and train but more lightly/higher volume. There are many options, all with their own advantages.


 Thank you for your answer

1. I don't see myself as an advanced/elite athlete and I looking for optimal stack for myself ( I would stay with test + winstrol) so I testing optimal doses for myself. With 600 mg of test e I pee a lot, with 400 test e this not seems to be an issue. Also with all tested doses of test e I have enlarge prostate so I need to use cialis to satisfy my girl. Do you have any advice how to increase doses of AAS and not to have pee/ enlarged prostate problem without cialis?

2. Currently on internet is discussion if volume training is killing your gains ( Mike Israetel vs Greg Doucette: Volume Killing Your Gains? ).
I know that progressive overload is a key but what is your opinion regards this topic?


----------



## myminimuffin

I am considering getting my parentes HGH for anti-aging purposes. But does ut shorten lifespan/longevity? I dont want to give them something that is harmful to their health


----------



## Baka

myminimuffin said:


> I am considering getting my parentes HGH for anti-aging purposes. But does ut shorten lifespan/longevity? I dont want to give them something that is harmful to their health


 will you get Pharma grade HGH? I wouldn't give them low cost HGH


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo What is the mechanism of soft erections and prolactin ?

I know high prolactin counteract dopamine secretion and vice versa , but what is the mechanism with the erections ?

Other question , does caber decrease your own dopamine levels after use ? can it give an after effect like use of MDMA at a smaller scale ?


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> Thank you for your answer
> 
> 1. I don't see myself as an advanced/elite athlete and I looking for optimal stack for myself ( I would stay with test + winstrol) so I testing optimal doses for myself. With 600 mg of test e I pee a lot, with 400 test e this not seems to be an issue. Also with all tested doses of test e I have enlarge prostate so I need to use cialis to satisfy my girl. Do you have any advice how to increase doses of AAS and not to have pee/ enlarged prostate problem without cialis?
> 
> 2. Currently on internet is discussion if volume training is killing your gains ( Mike Israetel vs Greg Doucette: Volume Killing Your Gains? ).
> I know that progressive overload is a key but what is your opinion regards this topic?


 Androgens and estrogens are going to grow/inflame the prostate. Cialis 5 mg daily will help with the BPH. The BPH is usually temporary while on cycle and goes away when you stop most of the time. (BPH = bening prostate hyperplasia). Just another side effect of using these hormones, your sensitivity to this effect is genetic. Finasteride could help, but that would lower your libido and mental benefits.

Progressive overload is #1. Higher volume is a useful tool, but it when it interferes with or replaces progressive overload, you get poor results. A lot of guys are blasting grams of AAS to make up for poor training and diet. The typical high volume pump workout makes it necessary to take AAS to see results.


----------



## ElChapo

myminimuffin said:


> I am considering getting my parentes HGH for anti-aging purposes. But does ut shorten lifespan/longevity? I dont want to give them something that is harmful to their health


 You are replacing something that is deficient. First off, you need an IGF-1 test to see how good their natural production is, then you can test their response to HGH. It's a question of quality of life. You could likely extend your lifespan with a starvation diet and castration, would you? I can guarantee you will never get penile, prostate or testicular cancer. We can remove all these organs for you. Would you like to do that?

You see where i'm going with this? Life extension is not the key, it's quality of life. Do you know how many vegetative +80 year olds i see who s**t and piss themselves, have to drink puree crap through a straw and can't wipe their own ass or walk? Ask your self, what is more important, quality of life or length of life? As long as you keep IGF-1 in the healthy youthful range, side effects and health risks are minimal, in this life, there is always risk where there is reward. The choice is yours.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo What is the mechanism of soft erections and prolactin ?
> 
> I know high prolactin counteract dopamine secretion and vice versa , but what is the mechanism with the erections ?
> 
> Other question , does caber decrease your own dopamine levels after use ? can it give an after effect like use of MDMA at a smaller scale ?


 Prolactin tells the body that it's time to rest and recover after sex. It's an evolutionary mechanism, without it, guys would be jerking off and fu**ing non-stop and never get work done, hunt for food and work. The exact mechanical/physiological process whereby prolactin inhibits erections is likely linked to the CNS and blocking off some dopaminergic mechanism between the penis and brain.

Caber could likely lead to some kind of negative feedback effect, as with most drugs. This is very likely to happen, it's just how the body works.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Prolactin tells the body that it's time to rest and recover after sex. It's an evolutionary mechanism, without it, guys would be jerking off and fu**ing non-stop and never get work done, hunt for food and work. The exact mechanical/physiological process whereby prolactin inhibits erections is likely linked to the CNS and blocking off some dopaminergic mechanism between the penis and brain.
> 
> Caber could likely lead to some kind of negative feedback effect, as with most drugs. This is very likely to happen, it's just how the body works.


 thank you.

I had ED for the first time in my life , It started 2 weeks ago I lost erection during intercourse and I had desire for sex .. so frustrating.

Even watching adult movies made it hard to maintain an erection and it was not as hard as normaly.

It lasted since yesterday , I didnt do blood but I couldn't see any other reasons than prolactin. I'm only on 250mg test but I know from old bloods that even 250mg test make my prolactin high range or even a little above.

So I took 0.25mg caber yesterday , and today I have crazy erections , like I always do. I'm pleased with that ofc but I know caber is a harsh drug and have a lot of side effects , I remember 2 years ago I had some crazy vivid nightmares on it..

Could the good erections come from the dopamine boost or it's from the decrease of prolactin ? I aint sure here


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> thank you.
> 
> I had ED for the first time in my life , It started 2 weeks ago I lost erection during intercourse and I had desire for sex .. so frustrating.
> 
> Even watching adult movies made it hard to maintain an erection and it was not as hard as normaly.
> 
> It lasted since yesterday , I didnt do blood but I couldn't see any other reasons than prolactin. I'm only on 250mg test but I know from old bloods that even 250mg test make my prolactin high range or even a little above.
> 
> So I took 0.25mg caber yesterday , and today I have crazy erections , like I always do. I'm pleased with that ofc but I know caber is a harsh drug and have a lot of side effects , I remember 2 years ago I had some crazy vivid nightmares on it..
> 
> Could the good erections come from the dopamine boost or it's from the decrease of prolactin ? I aint sure here


 Are you still taking nolvadex/raloxifene? The erections are likely from both.

250 mg is a very high dose of testosterone, when you go above physiological levels, everything goes out of balance.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Are you still taking nolvadex/raloxifene? The erections are likely from both.
> 
> 250 mg is a very high dose of testosterone, when you go above physiological levels, everything goes out of balance.


 no I stopped since months now.

My E2 is perfect , good libido feeling good.

Yes 250mg isnt TRT for sure , I should go lower(and will soon, at 150-200mg) but I don't normaly do BLAST , my 'blast' is 250mg and Is my cruise too.

I do cardio 4-5 times a week and train 5 times a week , but still I think as you said that 250mg is too high because I keep losing hair and my cardio isnt that good even tho I do a lot.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> no I stopped since months now.
> 
> My E2 is perfect , good libido feeling good.
> 
> Yes 250mg isnt TRT for sure , I should go lower(and will soon, at 150-200mg) but I don't normaly do BLAST , my 'blast' is 250mg and Is my cruise too.
> 
> I do cardio 4-5 times a week and train 5 times a week , but still I think as you said that 250mg is too high because I keep losing hair and my cardio isnt that good even tho I do a lot.


 You might be overtraining too, how is your carb intake?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> You might be overtraining too, how is your carb intake?


 High , maybe 300g , I eat a lot of white rice pre and post workout


----------



## Hosi

@*ElChapo*

After I end my cycle with Test E I was considering to use Masteron E.

I'm considering only Masteron as a control of E2. In your opinion Masteron is worth to try together with Test enan instead of IA?
example Test E 100 - 150 mg/ Masteron E the same dose or x2?


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> @*ElChapo*
> 
> After I end my cycle with Test E I was considering to use Masteron E.
> 
> I'm considering only Masteron as a control of E2. In your opinion Masteron is worth to try together with Test enan instead of IA?
> example Test E 100 - 150 mg/ Masteron E the same dose or x2?


 Sure, the same dose will do the trick. Lowering E2 can be a pain in the ass. Most men feel best leaving it alone.


----------



## Djibril

Hello @ElChapo

Thinking of giving Superdrol a try and was curious as to how bad it is on the hairline?

i liked winstrol but i think my temples receeded even more in a couple weeks even though i didnt notice hair falling out in my hands when i was bathing for example, dont know how that works tbh.


----------



## 39005

ElChapo said:


> You are replacing something that is deficient. First off, you need an IGF-1 test to see how good their natural production is, then you can test their response to HGH. It's a question of quality of life. You could likely extend your lifespan with a starvation diet and castration, would you? I can guarantee you will never get penile, prostate or testicular cancer. We can remove all these organs for you. Would you like to do that?
> 
> You see where i'm going with this? Life extension is not the key, it's quality of life. Do you know how many vegetative +80 year olds i see who s**t and piss themselves, have to drink puree crap through a straw and can't wipe their own ass or walk? Ask your self, what is more important, quality of life or length of life? As long as you keep IGF-1 in the healthy youthful range, side effects and health risks are minimal, in this life, there is always risk where there is reward. The choice is yours.


 great post, instead of paying for HGH pay for them to go on holiday .


----------



## Tonysco

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> Thinking of giving Superdrol a try and was curious as to how bad it is on the hairline?
> 
> i liked winstrol but i think my temples receeded even more in a couple weeks even though i didnt notice hair falling out in my hands when i was bathing for example, dont know how that works tbh.


 Superdrol didn't effect my hair but was extremely harsh on my liver.

Dose was 20mg daily with a test base. I was running NAC, it didnt even seem to slow it down. I didnt make it more than a month before having the symptoms of liver damage.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

3 questions, if you have time, Sir!



If superdrol is oral (17aa) masteron, then why are their effects so markedly different?


And, does that mean that injectable superdrol will behave more like masteron?


And, If not, why not?


Many thanks for your time in reading and answering.


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo those boulder shoulders that lots of today bodybuilders have can be due to their hormones of choice?

Androgens like Tren shouldn't help use to develop more certain areas of our body?

Is there any benefit on using 250 TestE eod and 100 TestProp eod? Noticed that lot's of big guys do that... and i am pretty curious....

Thanks for your time.


----------



## JezzaT

Hi, I am a newbie at posting here but have been a lurker for a long time, excellent resource. Have thirty years of natty training behind me and am now 49. I am considering some AAS but for a very specific reason - endurance sports. I ride ultra cycling races and am looking at PEDs for training purposes. I am obviously aware that test has been widely used by athletes but am not sure if there is a 'best' first cycle for this use. I've read widely and there is conflicting advice/evidence. Bloods all done and all test levels are in normal ranges. Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> Thinking of giving Superdrol a try and was curious as to how bad it is on the hairline?
> 
> i liked winstrol but i think my temples receeded even more in a couple weeks even though i didnt notice hair falling out in my hands when i was bathing for example, dont know how that works tbh.


 Winstrol is known as the worst for the hairline. It increases TGF-B which is linked to the pathogenesis of male pattern baldness.

As for Sdrol, i'm not sure. If you are concerned about hair loss, you should be using nizoral shampoo regularly. Sdrol is oral masteron, so it may likely not be hair friendly.


----------



## ElChapo

Tonysco said:


> Superdrol didn't effect my hair but was extremely harsh on my liver.
> 
> Dose was 20mg daily with a test base. I was running NAC, it didnt even seem to slow it down. I didnt make it more than a month before having the symptoms of liver damage.


 NAC is limited in it's protection of the liver. It's supplemental to TUDCA/UDCA. Only TUDCA can actually prevent liver toxicity by preventing cholestasis.

NAC just increases liver glutathione stores, bolstering it's antioxidant defense. TUDCA/UDCA directly addresses the cause of liver toxicity from oral AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 3 questions, if you have time, Sir!
> 
> 
> 
> If superdrol is oral (17aa) masteron, then why are their effects so markedly different?
> 
> 
> And, does that mean that injectable superdrol will behave more like masteron?
> 
> 
> And, If not, why not?
> 
> 
> Many thanks for your time in reading and answering.


 When you change the structure of a steroid, it can behave entirely differently. Nandrolone is testosterone with a very small modification, as is trenbolone, etc. They are all made from Cholesterol.

No, injectable and oral super drol are nothing like masteron. Masteron is weak and mild in comparison.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo those boulder shoulders that lots of today bodybuilders have can be due to their hormones of choice?
> 
> Androgens like Tren shouldn't help use to develop more certain areas of our body?
> 
> Is there any benefit on using 250 TestE eod and 100 TestProp eod? Noticed that lot's of big guys do that... and i am pretty curious....
> 
> Thanks for your time.


 No, having big shoulders is muscle hypertrophy just like anything else. This will also be linked to genetics. Look at Dana Bailey's fantastic shoulder development, but everything else like her back/legs are lacking. "3D shoulders" comes from having good shoulder development and being lean enough to see the seperation of the deltoid from the rest of the body.

Remember, shoulders are actually 3 seperate muscles, back/side/front aka posterior/lateral/anterior deltoid. All three parts can be trained directly and hypertrophied.

No benefit, but some guys love sustanon and testosterone mixes. I don't see the point or the draw back either.


----------



## ElChapo

JezzaT said:


> Hi, I am a newbie at posting here but have been a lurker for a long time, excellent resource. Have thirty years of natty training behind me and am now 49. I am considering some AAS but for a very specific reason - endurance sports. I ride ultra cycling races and am looking at PEDs for training purposes. I am obviously aware that test has been widely used by athletes but am not sure if there is a 'best' first cycle for this use. I've read widely and there is conflicting advice/evidence. Bloods all done and all test levels are in normal ranges. Thanks in advance for any advice.


 The biggest benefit of testosterone to endurance athletes is for recovery and keeping testosterone levels in the "optimal" range. Endurance training tends to depress testosterone levels very low. A medium/low TRT dose of test gel/cream or injectable is used to keep testosterone at the upper part of the natural range for endurance athletes. Generally, that's no more than 100-150 mg per week of injectable preferably propionate testosterone to reduce water retention which will slow you down/decrease endurance.

You will find a sharp decrease in your endurance and increase in your running times if you add moderate and high doses of AAS which reduced muscle efficiency, increase oxygen consumption and weight, all three things will cut down on your long-distance speed/endurance.

There is no such thing as "normal ranges". The normal ranges on lab work include levels seen in sick people. Post your labs here, or message me the lab results. you may benefit from TRT if your levels are lower than optimal.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is known as the worst for the hairline. It increases TGF-B which is linked to the pathogenesis of male pattern baldness.
> 
> As for Sdrol, i'm not sure. If you are concerned about hair loss, you should be using nizoral shampoo regularly. Sdrol is oral masteron, so it may likely not be hair friendly.


 Thank you mate. Ive been using since last month the ketocozanole shampoo and will likely use it forever. It also kind of helped a bit with some acne i had in the back of my head and cleared it up fairly quick

Is there any way to counteract Masteron-Winstrol-Primo-Anavar-Anadrol-Superdrol Hair loss? Without finasteride, only the possibility of the post finasteride syndrom scares me enough to prefer being bald then having a dead soldier lol. Or most likely i will never touch these unless i shave my head.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Thank you mate. Ive been using since last month the ketocozanole shampoo and will likely use it forever. It also kind of helped a bit with some acne i had in the back of my head and cleared it up fairly quick
> 
> Is there any way to counteract Masteron-Winstrol-Primo-Anavar-Anadrol-Superdrol Hair loss? Without finasteride, only the possibility of the post finasteride syndrom scares me enough to prefer being bald then having a dead soldier lol. Or most likely i will never touch these unless i shave my head.


 Some people find nizoral is enough to prevent it on winstrol, it likely has to do with your genetic sensitivity to hair loss.


----------



## Hosi

Hi again ElChapo

What could be the cause of swollen ankles? This not my problem but friend of my, he takes test e, symex, metanabol.

Thank you on advance for help


----------



## Abc987

@El Chapo can you help/advise on these bloods please. I get they are out but never know at what I should worry and what matters (are all kidney/liver/creatine etc markers worth worrying about or certain ones)

I donated the night before which may explain higher hct, red blood sells. I'm guessing I didn't give enough time for everything to settle?

im currently cruising on 125test e/120 mast e and have been for 8 weeks. Due to start a blast again Jan 6th






















should I worry? Should I come off everything for a few weeks? Thanks in advance

just to add, my diet is pretty good and I do 20mins cardio Ed and train most days too. I have been drinking most weekends (quite heavily ) for the last 3-4 weeks being the Xmas period


----------



## JezzaT

ElChapo said:


> The biggest benefit of testosterone to endurance athletes is for recovery and keeping testosterone levels in the "optimal" range. Endurance training tends to depress testosterone levels very low. A medium/low TRT dose of test gel/cream or injectable is used to keep testosterone at the upper part of the natural range for endurance athletes. Generally, that's no more than 100-150 mg per week of injectable preferably propionate testosterone to reduce water retention which will slow you down/decrease endurance.
> 
> You will find a sharp decrease in your endurance and increase in your running times if you add moderate and high doses of AAS which reduced muscle efficiency, increase oxygen consumption and weight, all three things will cut down on your long-distance speed/endurance.
> 
> There is no such thing as "normal ranges". The normal ranges on lab work include levels seen in sick people. Post your labs here, or message me the lab results. you may benefit from TRT if your levels are lower than optimal.


 Thank you for taking the time to reply, really appreciate it. I Was thinking of a minimal dose to aid recovery as that is a big issue. I have got a two month supply of testogel 50mg sachets. I know the bioavailability is only 10-15% so would give me a max of 100mg over the week. I've posted my labs below. Do you think the gel would be enough or am I better off just going for a test p cycle? Thanks again.


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> Hi again ElChapo
> 
> What could be the cause of swollen ankles? This not my problem but friend of my, he takes test e, symex, metanabol.
> 
> Thank you on advance for help


 Some guys get water retention like that. Used to happen to me on testosterone enathate at higher body fat levels. If it happened after he added these hormones, i would not be concerned.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @El Chapo can you help/advise on these bloods please. I get they are out but never know at what I should worry and what matters (are all kidney/liver/creatine etc markers worth worrying about or certain ones)
> 
> I donated the night before which may explain higher hct, red blood sells. I'm guessing I didn't give enough time for everything to settle?
> 
> im currently cruising on 125test e/120 mast e and have been for 8 weeks. Due to start a blast again Jan 6th
> 
> View attachment 178265
> View attachment 178267
> 
> View attachment 178275
> 
> 
> should I worry? Should I come off everything for a few weeks? Thanks in advance
> 
> just to add, my diet is pretty good and I do 20mins cardio Ed and train most days too. I have been drinking most weekends (quite heavily ) for the last 3-4 weeks being the Xmas period
> 
> View attachment 178269


 Everything looks fine except for hematocrit. You don't want that over 52% ideally to prevent increased risk of stroke/heart attack and calcification of the arteries. Everytime you donate, it goes down by 2-3%. So yours was probably at 57% before you donate.

p.s. make sure you are well-hydrated when running labs. Dehydration can make the hematocrit appear higher than it really is.


----------



## ElChapo

JezzaT said:


> Thank you for taking the time to reply, really appreciate it. I Was thinking of a minimal dose to aid recovery as that is a big issue. I have got a two month supply of testogel 50mg sachets. I know the bioavailability is only 10-15% so would give me a max of 100mg over the week. I've posted my labs below. Do you think the gel would be enough or am I better off just going for a test p cycle? Thanks again.
> 
> View attachment 178271


 Topicals are hit or miss. Some people absorb gels/creams very well, others not so much.

Also, taking exogenous testosterone increases the risk of losing your own natural testes function and testosterone production, as well as fertility.

We're not sure if the gel will put you at the right level or higher/lower than you already are. Injections are strongly preferable. I do not know what exact protocol endurance athletes use with the gels/creams either.


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> Some guys get water retention like that. Used to happen to me on testosterone enathate at higher body fat levels. If it happened after he added these hormones, i would not be concerned.


 Wat do you think he should do now? his ankles were swollen a few inches and didn't look good. After he rest lying all day everything back to normal.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Everything looks fine except for hematocrit. You don't want that over 52% ideally to prevent increased risk of stroke/heart attack and calcification of the arteries. Everytime you donate, it goes down by 2-3%. So yours was probably at 57% before you donate.
> 
> p.s. make sure you are well-hydrated when running labs. Dehydration can make the hematocrit appear higher than it really is.


 Thanks for the reply mate. With regards to hct I donated being .54 I donated the night before so I'm hoping it wouldn't have settled in time of test? They couldn't measure white blood cells for some reason and are sending me another full blood count test so I'll find out then?

I have another couple of weeks cruising (blast to start on 6th) would you have no issues with my markers starting another blast then? Hopefully they'd come down a tiny bit more over next couple of weeks. Would be 3.5 weeks after this test was taken and crying on 125test/120msst?

with regards to red markers (most only slightly elevated) what should I be looking out for and worrying at what level? We get told some are from lifting weights and high protein diets which would be raised if no drugs involved and some I'm guessing would be slightly raised anyway from B&Cing. My kidney, liver,cholesterol, muscle, iron & protein all had something in the red?

You must get asked about blood results constantly so would it be possible to make some sort of guideline sticky for us all to use against?

@swole troll what do you think? Your input would be great too


----------



## swole troll

Abc987 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. With regards to hct I donated being .54 I donated the night before so I'm hoping it wouldn't have settled in time of test? They couldn't measure white blood cells for some reason and are sending me another full blood count test so I'll find out then?
> 
> I have another couple of weeks cruising (blast to start on 6th) would you have no issues with my markers starting another blast then? Hopefully they'd come down a tiny bit more over next couple of weeks. Would be 3.5 weeks after this test was taken and crying on 125test/120msst?
> 
> with regards to red markers (most only slightly elevated) what should I be looking out for and worrying at what level? We get told some are from lifting weights and high protein diets which would be raised if no drugs involved and some I'm guessing would be slightly raised anyway from B&Cing. My kidney, liver,cholesterol, muscle, iron & protein all had something in the red?
> 
> You must get asked about blood results constantly so would it be possible to make some sort of guideline sticky for us all to use against?
> 
> @swole troll what do you think? Your input would be great too


 Everything been covered tbh mate

Your cholesterol will slowly sort itself provided you eat healthy and keep the cardio in

're hematology you need to donate as frequently as possible, stay well hydrated, drop to legitimate replacement dosages and consider a baby aspirin when your high on rbc and hematocrit


----------



## pma111

With arterial plaque/calcifacation/hardening of the arteries, does someone produce less nitric oxide "naturally", e.g. do unhardened/none-calcified healthy arteries produce more nitric oxide and therefore better blood flow?

It was just on examine.com it said the best ways to increase blood flow was increase nitric oxide or decrease arterial plaque which got me questioning what exactly the plaque does for natural NO production.

Ive seen other sites state if you have some degree of plaque buildup / calcifacation going on you need to try other techniques to increase NO output as presumably the plaque/calcifacation lowers production if that is the correct phrase.


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> Wat do you think he should do now? his ankles were swollen a few inches and didn't look good. After he rest lying all day everything back to normal.


 Like i said, if started with testosterone, he should not be concerned. Its a side effect.

Did he have it before he took steroids? Then he should get his heart checked, otherwise its just water retention and harmless.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. With regards to hct I donated being .54 I donated the night before so I'm hoping it wouldn't have settled in time of test? They couldn't measure white blood cells for some reason and are sending me another full blood count test so I'll find out then?
> 
> I have another couple of weeks cruising (blast to start on 6th) would you have no issues with my markers starting another blast then? Hopefully they'd come down a tiny bit more over next couple of weeks. Would be 3.5 weeks after this test was taken and crying on 125test/120msst?
> 
> with regards to red markers (most only slightly elevated) what should I be looking out for and worrying at what level? We get told some are from lifting weights and high protein diets which would be raised if no drugs involved and some I'm guessing would be slightly raised anyway from B&Cing. My kidney, liver,cholesterol, muscle, iron & protein all had something in the red?
> 
> You must get asked about blood results constantly so would it be possible to make some sort of guideline sticky for us all to use against?
> 
> @swole troll what do you think? Your input would be great too


 Are you saying you donate after this blood test? Then you would be around 51-52 HCT.

I've said this many times, lab work won't tell you s**t about what damage is being caused by steroids. The real damage happens inside the blood vessels and the structure of the hearts. Cardiomyopathy/hypertrophy, calcification/narrowing of blood vessels are the main killers.

These happen over time and are compounded by uncontrolled blood pressure and very low HDL levels. Acutely, your risk of stroke heart attack increase on high AAS due to increased blood clotting, especially if HCT is high.

Blood work will only show you lipids, HCT/RBC and liver enzymes, not bad information to keep track of, but to really know what's going you need calcium scoring and imaging of the heart structure.

I know many guys over the years with perfect blood work for years and in their 50s they find out their heart function is cooked with poor ejection fraction secondary to myopathy/structural changes and/or clogged arteries, stuff you will never see in blood work.

Do not be lulled into the false sense of security by blood work. Control your BP at all times, do not abuse cycle length/dose unless you are a professional, and if you can ; monitor calcification and heart structure functions every 6 months to 2 years. You will catch any issues before they are permanent and/or irreversible and dangerous.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. With regards to hct I donated being .54 I donated the night before so I'm hoping it wouldn't have settled in time of test? They couldn't measure white blood cells for some reason and are sending me another full blood count test so I'll find out then?
> 
> I have another couple of weeks cruising (blast to start on 6th) would you have no issues with my markers starting another blast then? Hopefully they'd come down a tiny bit more over next couple of weeks. Would be 3.5 weeks after this test was taken and crying on 125test/120msst?
> 
> with regards to red markers (most only slightly elevated) what should I be looking out for and worrying at what level? We get told some are from lifting weights and high protein diets which would be raised if no drugs involved and some I'm guessing would be slightly raised anyway from B&Cing. My kidney, liver,cholesterol, muscle, iron & protein all had something in the red?
> 
> You must get asked about blood results constantly so would it be possible to make some sort of guideline sticky for us all to use against?
> 
> @swole troll what do you think? Your input would be great too


 I did make a guideline for blood work, I'll repost it here.

Making it a sticky is not up to me.

1. CT scans to get calcium score and check blood flow through all the chambers/etc 2. EKG to check the rhythm will give you an idea of overall heart health. 3. Echocardiogram; will show you heart function via ejection fraction and structural changes like thickening, narrowing, hypetrophy/myopathy, etc. This is the trifecta of AAS damage prevention. I recommend doing these every 6 months-2 years depending on your genetic risk, pre-existing conditions, lifestyle, cycle history, etc.

You WILL catch any damage from AAS before it happens using these 3 tests, and most of these things are reversible when caught early. They cannot prevent acute causes of death/hospitalization like stroke/heart attack, but keeping your heart healthy is a big part of preventing those two events, controlling BP/HCT are the other two.

CBC : Check HGB and HCT.

You want HCT between 40-50%. Too low can cause low energy and endurance due to anemia. Too high (polycythemia) will make the blood to thick and make your heart work much harder to pump blood, decreases blood flow and increases the risk of high blood pressure and increase coagulation (increased risk of stroke/heart attack). Donating blood can deplete ferritin levels. You want ferritin over 60.

Kidneys:

You want GFR over 60. If you take creatine or carry a lot of muscles, sometimes this number can be artificially low. Another cause of low GFR is poor thyroid function. GFR stands for glomerular filtration rate, basically, how quickly your kidneys are filtering your blood. If you have above average muscle mass, use the african gfr reading if available on your labs. Other ways to gauge kidney health are cystatin and microalbumin levels.

High BP is what kills kidneys, period. Keep your BP under 140/90 mmhg and your kidneys will almost always be safe. High blood sugar is the 2nd major leading cause of kidney disease/dysfunction.

Lipids:

Cholesterol levels are overrated and the total count is not too important, but you want to have as high HDL as possible as it has a protective effect on arterial health. AAS will lower HDL, especially tren and winstrol. This is not a problem as long as you don't do it year round for long periods of time. Keep your cardio exercise up (130-150 BPM , 30 mins x 3-6 per week) and keep your average resting BP no higher than 135/85 mmhg long term. This will have a more significant effect on heart health than lipids.

Liver: AST/ALT under 100 is fine, unless this is crazy elevated for long periods, it won't be a problem. TUDCA and NAC are very effective and increasing the livers natural defenses and preventing cholestasis. This is when the bile stops flowing properly through the liver and one of the main causes of oral AAS induced liver toxicity.

IGF-1:

It's a good idea to keep an eye on this as you age, generally, levels between 170-300 ng/mL are good. GH increases igf-1 which is how it works for anti-aging, well-being and muscle growth. If your levels are low, bringing them up will help you age healthy and strong.

Total T/Free T:

Good to keep an eye on as you age or if you are cycling off to gauge natural testosterone recovery. Ideal levels for most people are 700-1,000 ng/dL for total testosterone, the average for a normal man is 500 ng/dL and can fluctuate due to genetics, lifestyle, and/or injury to the testes. You can google a calculator to convert the number to your metric system. The higher the test level, the harder it becomes to control things like E2 (estrogen), Hematocrit (blood thickness), drops in HDL (good cholesterol) and blood pressure (you never want this higher than 135/85 mmhg for longer periods of time, it damaged the heart, kidneys, eyes, etc). Always test early morning/fasted. (between 7-9 AM)

E2:

Ideal level for most people is 30-70 pg/ML(American units), important for libido, bone health, mood/well-being, and heart health. You can google a calculator "pg/mL to pmol/L" to convert units from American to UK.

HbA1c: aka glycated hemoglobin.

This measures your average blood glucose of the last 3 months. Should be between 4.8-5.6%. Any higher is indicative of possible pre-diabetes. This can be brought down with 1. Fat loss 2. Strength training+Cardio 3. Intermittent fasting

Thyroid panel: TSH/Free T4/Free T3.

TSH:

Any TSH level over 3 should be investigated for sublinical hypothyroidism if the patient has symptoms such as fatigue, cold intolerance, mood swings/depression, and constipation. TSH is not actually a thyroid hormone but a pituitary hormone that sends a signal from the brain to the thyroid to produce more hormone. The higher the level the poorer the thyroid function, but it's not always reliable because you can have perfect TSH and extremely bad thyroid function. TSH is the LH/FSH of the thyroid. Should be tested early morning fasted to get the best baseline level as it won't be accurate taken later in the day. (between 7-9 AM).

FT4 & FT3:

Free T4 and Free T3 are the active thyroid hormones. Contrary to popular belief, T4 is very important and is an active hormone on it's own with it's own functions. Certain tissues and cells are better at using T4 and others prefer T3. Sometimes T3 is poorly absorbed by certain tissues and needs T4 to convert the T3 it needs. Optimal levels of Free T4 should be around 1.4-1.8 ng/dL and Free T3 3.5-4.2 pg/mL. Cutting and long diets or overtraining can lower Free T3 levels naturally by decreasing the conversion of T4 to T3, this is the bodies way of trying to conserve energy, by down regulating the metabolism.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> With arterial plaque/calcifacation/hardening of the arteries, does someone produce less nitric oxide "naturally", e.g. do unhardened/none-calcified healthy arteries produce more nitric oxide and therefore better blood flow?
> 
> It was just on examine.com it said the best ways to increase blood flow was increase nitric oxide or decrease arterial plaque which got me questioning what exactly the plaque does for natural NO production.
> 
> Ive seen other sites state if you have some degree of plaque buildup / calcifacation going on you need to try other techniques to increase NO output as presumably the plaque/calcifacation lowers production if that is the correct phrase.


 When the arteries are stiff/calcified, they will not respond to NO as well as healthy arteries. Vaso reactivity/dilation. Its likely they also produce less NO, i would have to look into that.

The biggest causes of this are sedentary lifestyle, obesity, poor blood pressure control. Vitamin K2 can prevent this calcification and may even reverse it.


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo, any experience with tendonitis?

Got tendonitis at the top of my bicep (front of my shoulder) and been resting for four weeks.

Just wondered if you or anyone you know has had it?

If so how long was recovery and any supplements I can take to help it?

Thanks


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Are you saying you donate after this blood test? Then you would be around 51-52 HCT.
> 
> I've said this many times, lab work won't tell you s**t about what damage is being caused by steroids. The real damage happens inside the blood vessels and the structure of the hearts. Cardiomyopathy/hypertrophy, calcification/narrowing of blood vessels are the main killers.
> 
> These happen over time and are compounded by uncontrolled blood pressure and very low HDL levels. Acutely, your risk of stroke heart attack increase on high AAS due to increased blood clotting, especially if HCT is high.
> 
> Blood work will only show you lipids, HCT/RBC and liver enzymes, not bad information to keep track of, but to really know what's going you need calcium scoring and imaging of the heart structure.
> 
> I know many guys over the years with perfect blood work for years and in their 50s they find out their heart function is cooked with poor ejection fraction secondary to myopathy/structural changes and/or clogged arteries, stuff you will never see in blood work.
> 
> Do not be lulled into the false sense of security by blood work. Control your BP at all times, do not abuse cycle length/dose unless you are a professional, and if you can ; monitor calcification and heart structure functions every 6 months to 2 years. You will catch any issues before they are permanent and/or irreversible and dangerous.


 No mate. I meant I donated on the Thursday evening then took bloods Friday morning at 6am


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> I did make a guideline for blood work, I'll repost it here.
> 
> Making it a sticky is not up to me.
> 
> 1. CT scans to get calcium score and check blood flow through all the chambers/etc 2. EKG to check the rhythm will give you an idea of overall heart health. 3. Echocardiogram; will show you heart function via ejection fraction and structural changes like thickening, narrowing, hypetrophy/myopathy, etc. This is the trifecta of AAS damage prevention. I recommend doing these every 6 months-2 years depending on your genetic risk, pre-existing conditions, lifestyle, cycle history, etc.
> 
> You WILL catch any damage from AAS before it happens using these 3 tests, and most of these things are reversible when caught early. They cannot prevent acute causes of death/hospitalization like stroke/heart attack, but keeping your heart healthy is a big part of preventing those two events, controlling BP/HCT are the other two.
> 
> CBC : Check HGB and HCT.
> 
> You want HCT between 40-50%. Too low can cause low energy and endurance due to anemia. Too high (polycythemia) will make the blood to thick and make your heart work much harder to pump blood, decreases blood flow and increases the risk of high blood pressure and increase coagulation (increased risk of stroke/heart attack). Donating blood can deplete ferritin levels. You want ferritin over 60.
> 
> Kidneys:
> 
> You want GFR over 60. If you take creatine or carry a lot of muscles, sometimes this number can be artificially low. Another cause of low GFR is poor thyroid function. GFR stands for glomerular filtration rate, basically, how quickly your kidneys are filtering your blood. If you have above average muscle mass, use the african gfr reading if available on your labs. Other ways to gauge kidney health are cystatin and microalbumin levels.
> 
> High BP is what kills kidneys, period. Keep your BP under 140/90 mmhg and your kidneys will almost always be safe. High blood sugar is the 2nd major leading cause of kidney disease/dysfunction.
> 
> Lipids:
> 
> Cholesterol levels are overrated and the total count is not too important, but you want to have as high HDL as possible as it has a protective effect on arterial health. AAS will lower HDL, especially tren and winstrol. This is not a problem as long as you don't do it year round for long periods of time. Keep your cardio exercise up (130-150 BPM , 30 mins x 3-6 per week) and keep your average resting BP no higher than 135/85 mmhg long term. This will have a more significant effect on heart health than lipids.
> 
> Liver: AST/ALT under 100 is fine, unless this is crazy elevated for long periods, it won't be a problem. TUDCA and NAC are very effective and increasing the livers natural defenses and preventing cholestasis. This is when the bile stops flowing properly through the liver and one of the main causes of oral AAS induced liver toxicity.
> 
> IGF-1:
> 
> It's a good idea to keep an eye on this as you age, generally, levels between 170-300 ng/mL are good. GH increases igf-1 which is how it works for anti-aging, well-being and muscle growth. If your levels are low, bringing them up will help you age healthy and strong.
> 
> Total T/Free T:
> 
> Good to keep an eye on as you age or if you are cycling off to gauge natural testosterone recovery. Ideal levels for most people are 700-1,000 ng/dL for total testosterone, the average for a normal man is 500 ng/dL and can fluctuate due to genetics, lifestyle, and/or injury to the testes. You can google a calculator to convert the number to your metric system. The higher the test level, the harder it becomes to control things like E2 (estrogen), Hematocrit (blood thickness), drops in HDL (good cholesterol) and blood pressure (you never want this higher than 135/85 mmhg for longer periods of time, it damaged the heart, kidneys, eyes, etc). Always test early morning/fasted. (between 7-9 AM)
> 
> E2:
> 
> Ideal level for most people is 30-70 pg/ML(American units), important for libido, bone health, mood/well-being, and heart health. You can google a calculator "pg/mL to pmol/L" to convert units from American to UK.
> 
> HbA1c: aka glycated hemoglobin.
> 
> This measures your average blood glucose of the last 3 months. Should be between 4.8-5.6%. Any higher is indicative of possible pre-diabetes. This can be brought down with 1. Fat loss 2. Strength training+Cardio 3. Intermittent fasting
> 
> Thyroid panel: TSH/Free T4/Free T3.
> 
> TSH:
> 
> Any TSH level over 3 should be investigated for sublinical hypothyroidism if the patient has symptoms such as fatigue, cold intolerance, mood swings/depression, and constipation. TSH is not actually a thyroid hormone but a pituitary hormone that sends a signal from the brain to the thyroid to produce more hormone. The higher the level the poorer the thyroid function, but it's not always reliable because you can have perfect TSH and extremely bad thyroid function. TSH is the LH/FSH of the thyroid. Should be tested early morning fasted to get the best baseline level as it won't be accurate taken later in the day. (between 7-9 AM).
> 
> FT4 & FT3:
> 
> Free T4 and Free T3 are the active thyroid hormones. Contrary to popular belief, T4 is very important and is an active hormone on it's own with it's own functions. Certain tissues and cells are better at using T4 and others prefer T3. Sometimes T3 is poorly absorbed by certain tissues and needs T4 to convert the T3 it needs. Optimal levels of Free T4 should be around 1.4-1.8 ng/dL and Free T3 3.5-4.2 pg/mL. Cutting and long diets or overtraining can lower Free T3 levels naturally by decreasing the conversion of T4 to T3, this is the bodies way of trying to conserve energy, by down regulating the metabolism.


 Nice one mate this is great


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo re your suggested cardio for health, I struggle to get to the gym more than a couple of times a week due to other commitments. In those 2 sessions I do 50 minutes of cardio work on the bike and rowing machine at around 130-140bpm and roughly the same weight training with maximum 45 seconds rest between sets each session. I also take the dog for a 25-45 minute walk roughly 7-9 times per week.

Would you say this is enough for heart health? BP is around 127/73 on average when trt'ing for 50-65% of the year but goes up to about 145/80 on cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo, any experience with tendonitis?
> 
> Got tendonitis at the top of my bicep (front of my shoulder) and been resting for four weeks.
> 
> Just wondered if you or anyone you know has had it?
> 
> If so how long was recovery and any supplements I can take to help it?
> 
> Thanks


 4 weeks of complete rest should have resolved the issue. If it's still a problem you have a bigger issue and need to see a sports medicine doctor. It might need surgery.

3-4 weeks complete rest (no training at all) should fix 90% of mild-moderate tendonitis and sprains. Did you do complete rest or were you still training? Does it hurt at rest or only with activity? What exercise caused it or do you suspect caused it/flares it up?


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> No mate. I meant I donated on the Thursday evening then took bloods Friday morning at 6am


 Which means your HCT was high as f**k before you donate on Thursday.

Thursday HCT: Probably 57%, way too high. It goes down instantly after you donate, there is no settling period or delay in the change of HCT.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo re your suggested cardio for health, I struggle to get to the gym more than a couple of times a week due to other commitments. In those 2 sessions I do 50 minutes of cardio work on the bike and rowing machine at around 130-140bpm and roughly the same weight training with maximum 45 seconds rest between sets each session. I also take the dog for a 25-45 minute walk roughly 7-9 times per week.
> 
> Would you say this is enough for heart health? BP is around 127/73 on average when trt'ing for 50-65% of the year but goes up to about 145/80 on cycle.


 That should be more than enough. What is your resting heart rate? It's a decent indicator of cardiovascular fitness/health.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Which means your HCT was high as f**k before you donate on Thursday.
> 
> Thursday HCT: Probably 57%, way too high. It goes down instantly after you donate, there is no settling period or delay in the change of HCT.


 Thanks for confirming this mate, I wasn't sure.

ill let blood again before I blast in a few weeks. Medicheckss couldn't get white blood cell reading so are sending me a new full blood count test so I can recheck then.

going off that then I will have to let blood every 7-8 weeks rather than 12 as 12 it's still moving upwards!

thanks again mate


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> That should be more than enough. What is your resting heart rate? It's a decent indicator of cardiovascular fitness/health.


 Thanks. About 75bpm mate normally


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Thanks for confirming this mate, I wasn't sure.
> 
> ill let blood again before I blast in a few weeks. Medicheckss couldn't get white blood cell reading so are sending me a new full blood count test so I can recheck then.
> 
> going off that then I will have to let blood every 7-8 weeks rather than 12 as 12 it's still moving upwards!
> 
> thanks again mate


 Make sure you hydrate well the day before and day of the new test, you might be lucky and actually be closer to 50 for HCT when hydrated.

Every 8 weeks is good, just don't over do it, you can deplete your iron and ferritin levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Thanks. About 75bpm mate normally


 You want that closer to 60-70 bpm


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> 4 weeks of complete rest should have resolved the issue. If it's still a problem you have a bigger issue and need to see a sports medicine doctor. It might need surgery.
> 
> 3-4 weeks complete rest (no training at all) should fix 90% of mild-moderate tendonitis and sprains. Did you do complete rest or were you still training? Does it hurt at rest or only with activity? What exercise caused it or do you suspect caused it/flares it up


 Thanks for your response.

Luckily I have no pain at rest, I was only getting pain whilst doing chest, mainly incline presses or low to high cable crossovers.

I think it might have came from chin ups.

I read somewhere that I should start back lifting at 25% weight I was lifting and slowly at 10-20% each week, any ideas if this is right?


----------



## jj1996

Are dietary fats important for people on anabolics? assuming adequate epa/dha supplementation is taken. Is it a good idea to run high carb/ moderate protein diet with trace fats?

Since the body is inefficient at storing carbs as fat, would this be beneficial to stying lean in the off season, assuming calories are matched?


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thanks for your response.
> 
> Luckily I have no pain at rest, I was only getting pain whilst doing chest, mainly incline presses or low to high cable crossovers.
> 
> I think it might have came from chin ups.
> 
> I read somewhere that I should start back lifting at 25% weight I was lifting and slowly at 10-20% each week, any ideas if this is right?


 You did not answer my questions fully so i can't answer. I need more information.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Are dietary fats important for people on anabolics? assuming adequate epa/dha supplementation is taken. Is it a good idea to run high carb/ moderate protein diet with trace fats?
> 
> Since the body is inefficient at storing carbs as fat, would this be beneficial to stying lean in the off season, assuming calories are matched?


 Fat is an overrated macro. It plays very little importance. Mostly it adds flavor and helps absorb certain vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E, and K).

In theory, keeping fat low will keep your gains leaner. The body is less efficient at creating fat out of carbs than directly storing excess fat in a surplus.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> You want that closer to 60-70 bpm


 Ok mate will try harder :thumb thanks


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Fat is an overrated macro. It plays very little importance. Mostly it adds flavor and helps absorb certain vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E, and K).
> 
> In theory, keeping fat low will keep your gains leaner. The body is less efficient at creating fat out of carbs than directly storing excess fat in a surplus.


 Thanks for the reply bud! How low can one go? Im trying to do high carb and little fat as possible with moderate protein. I've heard some BBers even avoid oats such to minimise it as much as possible(but then again they are on slin makes sense but im not)... quite interesting this stuff. We know calorie balance is key but really interesting this..


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> Like i said, if started with testosterone, he should not be concerned. Its a side effect
> 
> Did he have it before he took steroids? Then he should get his heart checked, otherwise its just water retention and harmless.


 It seems to be test effect, he didn't have it before.

Thanks one more time for help


----------



## Djibril

Hello elchapo

Would like to ask a question about my wife. She recently made an ultrasound because she had some pain from time to time and doc told her she had sand-dust in her kidneys. Not yet stones.

Is there anything she can do to help that, any supplement or something like that


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Thanks for the reply bud! How low can one go? Im trying to do high carb and little fat as possible with moderate protein. I've heard some BBers even avoid oats such to minimise it as much as possible(but then again they are on slin makes sense but im not)... quite interesting this stuff. We know calorie balance is key but really interesting this..


 No reason to be that crazy. It's not a big deal. You don't have to avoid fat that hard. Just lean more towards carbs/protein.

End of the day, it's just theory. It's not a big deal. Just don't pound down full fat ice cream and butter.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello elchapo
> 
> Would like to ask a question about my wife. She recently made an ultrasound because she had some pain from time to time and doc told her she had sand-dust in her kidneys. Not yet stones.
> 
> Is there anything she can do to help that, any supplement or something like that


 "Supplementing with a combination of potassium *citrate* and *magnesium citrate* may reduce the recurrence rate of *kidney stones*. "

Magnesium citrate is easy to find online, amazon or vitamin store. 200-400 mg daily


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> You did not answer my questions fully so i can't answer. I need more information.


 Aww sorry. I completely stayed away from the gym, except for legs and cardio.

I only did some rotator cuff exercises with a band and some stretches for my chest.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> Are you saying you donate after this blood test? Then you would be around 51-52 HCT.
> 
> I've said this many times, lab work won't tell you s**t about what damage is being caused by steroids. The real damage happens inside the blood vessels and the structure of the hearts. Cardiomyopathy/hypertrophy, calcification/narrowing of blood vessels are the main killers.
> 
> These happen over time and are compounded by uncontrolled blood pressure and very low HDL levels. Acutely, your risk of stroke heart attack increase on high AAS due to increased blood clotting, especially if HCT is high.
> 
> Blood work will only show you lipids, HCT/RBC and liver enzymes, not bad information to keep track of, but to really know what's going you need calcium scoring and imaging of the heart structure.
> 
> I know many guys over the years with perfect blood work for years and in their 50s they find out their heart function is cooked with poor ejection fraction secondary to myopathy/structural changes and/or clogged arteries, stuff you will never see in blood work.
> 
> Do not be lulled into the false sense of security by blood work. Control your BP at all times, do not abuse cycle length/dose unless you are a professional, and if you can ; monitor calcification and heart structure functions every 6 months to 2 years. You will catch any issues before they are permanent and/or irreversible and dangerous.


 Could ,paradoxically, tue use of winstrol or turinabol lower the risk (short term) due to their fibrinolytic effect?


----------



## JezzaT

ElChapo said:


> Topicals are hit or miss. Some people absorb gels/creams very well, others not so much.
> 
> Also, taking exogenous testosterone increases the risk of losing your own natural testes function and testosterone production, as well as fertility.
> 
> We're not sure if the gel will put you at the right level or higher/lower than you already are. Injections are strongly preferable. I do not know what exact protocol endurance athletes use with the gels/creams either.


 Thanks again for your time. In that case I am guessing that it's best to leave it. I would consider pinning a low dose of test p if it helped with wellness and recovery time but the cost of shutdown would be too great. Just have to accept that age will slow me down! Cheers.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Fat is an overrated macro. It plays very little importance. Mostly it adds flavor and helps absorb certain vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E, and K).
> 
> In theory, keeping fat low will keep your gains leaner. The body is less efficient at creating fat out of carbs than directly storing excess fat in a surplus.


 But usually it's quite easy to get good fats.... 4 omega 3 pills, 3 eggs maybe half of avocado and you are good to go.....


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo would taking 100mg of mast E / week with 200mg test (cruise) be beneficial for lowering SHBG?

I used to love masteron at 200-300mg , felt stronger , more libido and better mood BUT my hair were falling so fast on it.

Do you think 100mg mast E can increase a lot hair loss if prone to it ? it's low dose but even 25mg of proviron/day made a difference in hair shedding so not sure if good idea.

I was thinking of it , and lowering my test dose too .


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Aww sorry. I completely stayed away from the gym, except for legs and cardio.
> 
> I only did some rotator cuff exercises with a band and some stretches for my chest.


 That's not complete rest.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Could ,paradoxically, tue use of winstrol or turinabol lower the risk (short term) due to their fibrinolytic effect?


 Maybe, remember stroke can happen from clots and also bleeding. There have been positive effects on heart function in studies using winstrol and other androgens, but the dose makes the poison/medicine.

We need some clotting, just not too much. There's a sweet spot.


----------



## ElChapo

JezzaT said:


> Thanks again for your time. In that case I am guessing that it's best to leave it. I would consider pinning a low dose of test p if it helped with wellness and recovery time but the cost of shutdown would be too great. Just have to accept that age will slow me down! Cheers.


 Yes, unless your normal T levels are already fairly low, which would make you a good candidate for TRT.

Endurance trainees tend to have low levels of testosterone, and low testosterone is a risk factor for heart disease and other health problems.

Do you know your current testosterone levels?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> But usually it's quite easy to get good fats.... 4 omega 3 pills, 3 eggs maybe half of avocado and you are good to go.....


 Correct, we easily get plenty of fat from eating a normal diet. You have to try hard to avoid fat. Most people get more than enough.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo would taking 100mg of mast E / week with 200mg test (cruise) be beneficial for lowering SHBG?
> 
> I used to love masteron at 200-300mg , felt stronger , more libido and better mood BUT my hair were falling so fast on it.
> 
> Do you think 100mg mast E can increase a lot hair loss if prone to it ? it's low dose but even 25mg of proviron/day made a difference in hair shedding so not sure if good idea.
> 
> I was thinking of it , and lowering my test dose too .


 SHBG is not a big concern. There's a big fad right now and obsession with SHBG. It's neither bad or good and rarely has any real effect on outcomes. If Free T is too low, just increase the dosage of testosterone. You could add masteron but some people get prostate issues/hair loss.

I would not recommend it, we don't know the long-term risks especially for prostate and hair loss.


----------



## JezzaT

ElChapo said:


> Yes, unless your normal T levels are already fairly low, which would make you a good candidate for TRT.
> 
> Endurance trainees tend to have low levels of testosterone, and low testosterone is a risk factor for heart disease and other health problems.
> 
> Do you know your current testosterone levels?


 Yes, I have had a recent test and this was during 'off-season' so my training intensity has been lower the last few months. At peak I am riding my bike on ultra races 16 hours a day for 8-10 days. That definitely hits my levels. My recent levels are below (I hope!) Thanks again for your input and time, much appreciated.


----------



## ElChapo

JezzaT said:


> Yes, I have had a recent test and this was during 'off-season' so my training intensity has been lower the last few months. At peak I am riding my bike on ultra races 16 hours a day for 8-10 days. That definitely hits my levels. My recent levels are below (I hope!) Thanks again for your input and time, much appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 178347


 Your Free testosterone and estradiol are low. How is your libido/mood/etc? Depending on your age, TRT might be a good idea. Depends...

These levels will be much lower during your peak training periods and that's why endurance athletes take low TRT doses to keep their levels in the optimal/youthful range while training intensely. They aren't looking to build muscle, just improve recovery/energy/focus levels.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Correct, we easily get plenty of fat from eating a normal diet. You have to try hard to avoid fat. Most people get more than enough.


 With a very low fat, high carb approach could we ruin insulin sensitivity and nutrient partitoning a lot faster than with a moderate fat approach specillay when slin ins not used? Also whats your thoughts on some protein/fat meals during the day to maintain insulin sensitivity? Or is it pointless?


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> With a very low fat, high carb approach could we ruin insulin sensitivity and nutrient partitoning a lot faster than with a moderate fat approach specillay when slin ins not used? Also whats your thoughts on some protein/fat meals during the day to maintain insulin sensitivity? Or is it pointless?


 Not at all, i have many people's labs on high carb diets with A1Cs in the low 5s and even high 4s. Being lean, having muscle and being active are what will keep your insulin sensitivity high.

Pointless. Don't overthink this stuff.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo cts/water retention has been creeping up over the last week from HGH. My ankle tendons and leg joints have been sore as hell..

It came creeping despite me staying on the same dose. I have been drinking a lot more water (4 liter ed) the last couple of days which seem to have helped.

Anything else I could do? I'm not much for lowering the dose. Only running a total of 4 iu, which is split twice through the day, which took me months to build up to.

Edit: in retrospect, ever since splitting up my 4 iu dose into 2x daily shots I have had a lot of cts issues. I will lower it to 3.6 iu ed for now and swallow my pride


----------



## jj1996

Whats your thoughts on taking sdrol on a weakpoint training day only? (like once/twice a week only on arm days, etc)


----------



## JezzaT

ElChapo said:


> Your Free testosterone and estradiol are low. How is your libido/mood/etc? Depending on your age, TRT might be a good idea. Depends...
> 
> These levels will be much lower during your peak training periods and that's why endurance athletes take low TRT doses to keep their levels in the optimal/youthful range while training intensely. They aren't looking to build muscle, just improve recovery/energy/focus levels.


 Thanks for getting back. Both mood and libido are poor to be honest. Lacking motivation and focus. I'm 50 in February so I know my levels are not going to improve and will only decrease in peak training. I am looking to improve recovery and energy so do you think TRT could be worth a try?

I won't be able to get this prescribed here due to my levels not being low enough. If I self prescribed would a 12 week cycle of 100mg Test P be a start? The other option I have are topicals but, as you say, they can be hit and miss. I'd be grateful for your thoughts and thanks again.


----------



## SlinMeister

jj1996 said:


> With a very low fat, high carb approach could we ruin insulin sensitivity and nutrient partitoning a lot faster than with a moderate fat approach specillay when slin ins not used? Also whats your thoughts on some protein/fat meals during the day to maintain insulin sensitivity? Or is it pointless?


 I am like you mate.... I wasted a lot of money in glucose strips, a1c and fasted insulin blood test because I was bulking just on high carbs medium prots low low fats... Guess what my insulin sensitivity was always fine...

What really makes us insulin resistant is the use/abuse of HGH that's why we stack it with Insulin when you go over the 6iu HGH ed (Pharma grade)

So TBH I won't be really that concerned on insulin resistance just don't overeat when growing, this will make you resistant....

Well at least this was my experience.... Wish El_chapo was there before haha


----------



## jj1996

SlinMeister said:


> I am like you mate.... I wasted a lot of money in glucose strips, a1c and fasted insulin blood test because I was bulking just on high carbs medium prots low low fats... Guess what my insulin sensitivity was always fine...
> 
> What really makes us insulin resistant is the use/abuse of HGH that's why we stack it with Insulin when you go over the 6iu HGH ed (Pharma grade)
> 
> So TBH I won't be really that concerned on insulin resistance just don't overeat when growing, this will make you resistant....
> 
> Well at least this was my experience.... Wish El_chapo was there before haha


 Nice to know you can relate mate (fu**ing lol at the glucometer stint, been there done that haha ) was just overthinking at its finest, it all makes sense for bbers who use slin and gh. However for most it is usless imo. I actually have had multiple blood works done while on very high carb diets (600g+ 20 weeks into bulk) and it came back at 2.95 mIU/L(VERY low end of range). Is nutrient partioning same as (or influenced by) insulin sensitivity?

Agreed calorie balance is key.


----------



## SlinMeister

jj1996 said:


> Nice to know you can relate mate (fu**ing lol at the glucometer stint, been there done that haha ) was just overthinking at its finest, it all makes sense for bbers who use slin and gh. However for most it is usless imo. I actually have had multiple blood works done while on very high carb diets (600g+ 20 weeks into bulk) and it came back at 2.95 mIU/L(VERY low end of range). Is nutrient partioning same as (or influenced by) insulin sensitivity?
> 
> Agreed calorie balance is key.


 I looked better on high high carbs TBH, yes ofc a bit watery but it's 90% about excess calories.and the bf at which you start "bulking".

Insulin sensitivity makes you use better carbs but remember that we are on steroids and all of them are good in improving nutrient partitioning. It's very hard to apply research on WebMD to the average gymrat on AAS since lots of things change.

Tren is King at nutrient partitioning (and you will notice that also by fasted glucose), but it literally incinerates almost every carb you eat. So ok if you are on a boatload of HGH and insulin, it's ideal to use it in high dose to grow, since you will burn every carb spilling over.

If you are on 4-6iu HGH I think that 300-500TrenA can help you, if you don't develop sleep issues, but you will end always on eating a ton of calories more for nothing, in the end you will be less efficient on build muscle.

If you stress too much your body it will be hard to grow and Tren until you don't have a good dose of muscle on will stress every cell.

Best growth that I had was on:

Test (uhm big deal  )

EQ

or

NPP

and

An oral that doesn't mess too much with me like Anavar or Winny my favorites.

EQ/NPP were there for their properties, but they also change the shape of your muscles, more round and full, test makes you thick but not that round.

Now I understand why @El Chapo advocates so much TestP NPP Winny/Sdrol... It's simply synergy at its finest.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> Fat is an overrated macro. It plays very little importance. Mostly it adds flavor and helps absorb certain vitamins (Vitamin A, D, E, and K).
> 
> In theory, keeping fat low will keep your gains leaner. The body is less efficient at creating fat out of carbs than directly storing excess fat in a surplus.


 @El Chapo

Let's say that you want to grow on AAS + HGH and Insulin.

On that protocol it will be useful to eat 1,5g per lbs of proteins?

I still have some doubts about how many proteins eat during a growth phase.

Protein shakes can be considered good as eating meat or egg whites? I have noticed that recently lots of steroids guru hate Whey proteins.


----------



## jj1996

SlinMeister said:


> I looked better on high high carbs TBH, yes ofc a bit watery but it's 90% about excess calories.and the bf at which you start "bulking".
> 
> Insulin sensitivity makes you use better carbs but remember that we are on steroids and all of them are good in improving nutrient partitioning. It's very hard to apply research on WebMD to the average gymrat on AAS since lots of things change.
> 
> Tren is King at nutrient partitioning (and you will notice that also by fasted glucose), but it literally incinerates almost every carb you eat. So ok if you are on a boatload of HGH and insulin, it's ideal to use it in high dose to grow, since you will burn every carb spilling over.
> 
> If you are on 4-6iu HGH I think that 300-500TrenA can help you, if you don't develop sleep issues, but you will end always on eating a ton of calories more for nothing, in the end you will be less efficient on build muscle.
> 
> If you stress too much your body it will be hard to grow and Tren until you don't have a good dose of muscle on will stress every cell.
> 
> Best growth that I had was on:
> 
> Test (uhm big deal  )
> 
> EQ
> 
> or
> 
> NPP
> 
> and
> 
> An oral that doesn't mess too much with me like Anavar or Winny my favorites.
> 
> EQ/NPP were there for their properties, but they also change the shape of your muscles, more round and full, test makes you thick but not that round.
> 
> Now I understand why @El Chapo advocates so much TestP NPP Winny/Sdrol... It's simply synergy at its finest.


 How long do you run the anavar for in a cycle? Im not sure how to do an oral in a long 20 week cycle..


----------



## SlinMeister

jj1996 said:


> How long do you run the anavar for in a cycle? Im not sure how to do an oral in a long 20 week cycle..


 Usually 4-5weeks but at 5th week my ast alt ggt bilirubin were still ok and wasn't using TUDCA.

I would like to try Winny for 12w straight with 250mg TUDCA ed and 600mg inj gluthathione once a week.

If you listen to Gregg's Douchette cycles he was on orals up to 20 weeks straight. (I hope it wasn't a lie)


----------



## Dannyb0yb

SlinMeister said:


> I am like you mate.... I wasted a lot of money in glucose strips, a1c and fasted insulin blood test because I was bulking just on high carbs medium prots low low fats... Guess what my insulin sensitivity was always fine...
> 
> What really makes us insulin resistant is the use/abuse of HGH that's why we stack it with Insulin when you go over the 6iu HGH ed (Pharma grade)
> 
> So TBH I won't be really that concerned on insulin resistance just don't overeat when growing, this will make you resistant....
> 
> Well at least this was my experience.... Wish El_chapo was there before haha


 I dont understand how you guys can dose HGH that high and not get sides


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo cts/water retention has been creeping up over the last week from HGH. My ankle tendons and leg joints have been sore as hell..
> 
> It came creeping despite me staying on the same dose. I have been drinking a lot more water (4 liter ed) the last couple of days which seem to have helped.
> 
> Anything else I could do? I'm not much for lowering the dose. Only running a total of 4 iu, which is split twice through the day, which took me months to build up to.
> 
> Edit: in retrospect, ever since splitting up my 4 iu dose into 2x daily shots I have had a lot of cts issues. I will lower it to 3.6 iu ed for now and swallow my pride


 Splitting the dose twice increases the potency, so it's more like you are taking +6 IU daily. Splitting is making you produce a lot more IGF.

Switch to once daily at bedtime, should help.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Whats your thoughts on taking sdrol on a weakpoint training day only? (like once/twice a week only on arm days, etc)


 Don't do that.

Take sdrol for a full cycle and train your weak point so it's no longer a weak point. Progressive overload+caloric surplus.


----------



## ElChapo

JezzaT said:


> Thanks for getting back. Both mood and libido are poor to be honest. Lacking motivation and focus. I'm 50 in February so I know my levels are not going to improve and will only decrease in peak training. I am looking to improve recovery and energy so do you think TRT could be worth a try?
> 
> I won't be able to get this prescribed here due to my levels not being low enough. If I self prescribed would a 12 week cycle of 100mg Test P be a start? The other option I have are topicals but, as you say, they can be hit and miss. I'd be grateful for your thoughts and thanks again.


 Ouch, i would get on TRT asap. No reason to continue to slowly decline into your golden years. Many guys will show symptoms even in the middle ranges. Your Free T is fairly low. The body also seems to become more resistant to Testosterone as you age and your body may be used to much higher levels from your youth.

100-150 mg should get you where you want and improve you training. +200 mg can start to slow you down for endurance activities even though your overall power/explosiveness will increase.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I am like you mate.... I wasted a lot of money in glucose strips, a1c and fasted insulin blood test because I was bulking just on high carbs medium prots low low fats... Guess what my insulin sensitivity was always fine...
> 
> What really makes us insulin resistant is the use/abuse of HGH that's why we stack it with Insulin when you go over the 6iu HGH ed (Pharma grade)
> 
> So TBH I won't be really that concerned on insulin resistance just don't overeat when growing, this will make you resistant....
> 
> Well at least this was my experience.... Wish El_chapo was there before haha


 High body fat and lack of cardiovascular exercise are the #1 cause of insulin resistance in most people. Genetics too.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Let's say that you want to grow on AAS + HGH and Insulin.
> 
> On that protocol it will be useful to eat 1,5g per lbs of proteins?
> 
> I still have some doubts about how many proteins eat during a growth phase.
> 
> Protein shakes can be considered good as eating meat or egg whites? I have noticed that recently lots of steroids guru hate Whey proteins.


 Theoretically, some believe your body is better able to utilize extra protein, especially on GH and insulin. This may or may not be true. We don't know, but many pros advocate this.

Protein from anywhere will do the job. Even pea protein is as effective as whey is fine and best for not getting too full if you have trouble getting in all your calories/macros. For the opposite effect on a cut, dont use whey and stick to meat based protein for increased fullness/satiety.


----------



## Nara

@ElChapo which long ester + oral cycle would you recommend to have the least side effects mentally but also give similar results as tren?

In other words just a cycle with long ester and oral for general mental health wellbeing but still with decent results.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> @ElChapo which long ester + oral cycle would you recommend to have the least side effects mentally but also give similar results as tren?
> 
> In other words just a cycle with long ester and oral for general mental health wellbeing but still with decent results.


 Test E+Winstrol will have similar results. Test P+Winstrol will look much better/dryer and more like trenbolone. You can dose Test P x 2 weekly. No need for every day or every other day.

12-16 weeks test p 300-1000 mg + winstrol daily 50-100 mg with TUDCA/NAC. Dosage depends on experience levels/goals/etc.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Splitting the dose twice increases the potency, so it's more like you are taking +6 IU daily. Splitting is making you produce a lot more IGF.
> 
> Switch to once daily at bedtime, should help.


 Ah, no wonder CTS has been crazy bad.

Do you think I could do 3 iu 2x split ?


----------



## Nara

ElChapo said:


> Test E+Winstrol will have similar results. Test P+Winstrol will look much better/dryer and more like trenbolone. You can dose Test P x 2 weekly. No need for every day or every other day.
> 
> 12-16 weeks test p 300-1000 mg + winstrol daily 50-100 mg with TUDCA/NAC. Dosage depends on experience levels/goals/etc.


 So test p x 2 weekly like Monday and Friday?


----------



## TURBS

Nara said:


> So test p x 2 weekly like Monday and Friday?


 You evenly split the weekly dose, so every 3.5 days would be Monday & Thursday.


----------



## jj1996

Hey mate, i know the main point of a cruise is to get healthy again but does it make you more responsive to AAS at the same dose?

For eg,

Person A blasts 1.5g 24 weeks straight

Person B blasts 1.5g for 12 weeks cruise for 6 weeks and blasts 1.5g again for another 12 weeks.

Who would net the most amount of gains end of the final blast?

Assuming training, nutrition and genetics is constant..


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Ah, no wonder CTS has been crazy bad.
> 
> Do you think I could do 3 iu 2x split ?


 What are your goals and reason for using GH? The CTS will be the same or worse.

If not running insulin, 4 IU once daily in the evening is my recommendation. SQ in the abdomen 3-4 hours before bed.


----------



## ElChapo

Nara said:


> So test p x 2 weekly like Monday and Friday?


 I like Monday/Thursday or Wednesday/Saturday.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Hey mate, i know the main point of a cruise is to get healthy again but does it make you more responsive to AAS at the same dose?
> 
> For eg,
> 
> Person A blasts 1.5g 24 weeks straight
> 
> Person B blasts 1.5g for 12 weeks cruise for 6 weeks and blasts 1.5g again for another 12 weeks.
> 
> Who would net the most amount of gains end of the final blast?
> 
> Assuming training, nutrition and genetics is constant..


 Some people feel it "re-sensitizes" the cells or androgen receptors, but person A is going to get gains just fine if they train and eat right.

A big reason people think "gains slow down" is because initially when starting a cycle you get a big boost in weight from glycogen/nitrogen increase and eating more food. This leads people to believe that all these gains are happening in the first month or so of a cycle and then slowing down, this is incorrect. Muscle gains are slow and steady just like when you are of AAS, AAS just allow you to build it faster and past your genetic limit.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> What are your goals and reason for using GH? The CTS will be the same or worse.
> 
> If not running insulin, 4 IU once daily in the evening is my recommendation. SQ in the abdomen 3-4 hours before bed.


 Ah I meant 1.5 iu am and 1.5 pm, as an alternative to 4 iu all at once.

Right now im doing 2 iu am and 2 iu pm, and cts is horrible.

Mainly for injury healing / recovery . The idea with splitting was to go for higher IGF 1 levels for improved muscle/tendon/joint healing/repair


----------



## strengthnsize

What's your opinion on using anadrol whilst on test for both strength and muscle mass gains? I've done a search on this thread but it hasn't been mentioned a lot.

I've heard mixed things about keeping the gains once you come off from different people as I understand it causes a lot of glycogen retention whilst your using it. Is 500mg of TUDCA enough? 50 or 75mg a day? How long should it be run for? Can raloxifene combat the mystery gyno that people get on it?

I've heard some complain about appetite issues and lethargy on it but this seems rarer compared to something like superdrol.


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

@ElChapo I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Do you know something about fixing an anterior pelvic tilt? Or atleast minimalising it?

I have a slight APT which does not bother me health wise. It does make my gut stick out quite a bit, especially when I have food in my stomach. So it is really an aesthetic problem for me.

Do you have recommendations, certain exercises or tools that could help me. In what period of time should I notice improvement?

Thanks


----------



## delbo

Been on 250mg test e cruise for quite a while now but i had very mild gyno which has got a lot worse and more painful since ive started increasing cals to gain more size. Any reason for this? Using nolva now to reverse lumps until i get get adex. Should i keep on the nolva after i get adex and if so for how many weeks?


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo @ghost.recon Merry Christmas fellas. Hope you've had a great day with the ones you love! Many thanks for sharing your knowledge here on UKM. Very much appreciated guys :thumbup1:


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo whilst using ralox to reverse gyno is it necessary to crush/have low estrogen? And will it work whilst running HCG?

also is there any point in starting HCG late into a cycle?

thanks for all your help and hope you had a good Christmas


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Ah I meant 1.5 iu am and 1.5 pm, as an alternative to 4 iu all at once.
> 
> Right now im doing 2 iu am and 2 iu pm, and cts is horrible.
> 
> Mainly for injury healing / recovery . The idea with splitting was to go for higher IGF 1 levels for improved muscle/tendon/joint healing/repair


 Sure you can try that, it will probably be almost the same with the CTS though. I gave you my recommendation already.


----------



## ElChapo

strengthnsize said:


> What's your opinion on using anadrol whilst on test for both strength and muscle mass gains? I've done a search on this thread but it hasn't been mentioned a lot.
> 
> I've heard mixed things about keeping the gains once you come off from different people as I understand it causes a lot of glycogen retention whilst your using it. Is 500mg of TUDCA enough? 50 or 75mg a day? How long should it be run for? Can raloxifene combat the mystery gyno that people get on it?
> 
> I've heard some complain about appetite issues and lethargy on it but this seems rarer compared to something like superdrol.


 Your best bet to retain muscle is going to be post-cycle Testosterone levels vs genetic limit. If you PCT over your genetic limit versus Cruise is going to make a difference, just as important is to focus on lifting as much weight as you did off cycle as you did on cycle.

If you were benching 225 x 15 on cycle and can still bench 225 x 12 off cycle, then you kept most of of your gains. You might look smaller/less dry due to reduced glycogen/nitrogen etc but the actual muscle is there. This is why guys who focus too much on pump/volume/isolation shrink so drastically coming off cycle. There should be a strength based component to your training for best results.

The hormones you use to get yours gains is not as important as your training on cycle/off cycle and your nutrition. You can achieve great results with any AAS. Some guys respond better to others, prefer a certain look from one compound or something compound offers that others don't ( low water retention/high strength like winstrol.)

250-500 mg TUDCA/UDCA+1000 NAC.

50-100 MG ananadrol

Raloxifene will work on all gyno, but not always while taking the compound causing it. It tends to be poorer at prevention against progestin induced gyno (deca/tren) and effective against estrogenic gyno. So worst case scenario, you can reverse it after the cycle.

My most recommended orals are winstrol and superdrol for reasons i have stated many times. To me, they are more effective than trenbolone when used properly.


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ElChapo I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
> 
> Do you know something about fixing an anterior pelvic tilt? Or atleast minimalising it?
> 
> I have a slight APT which does not bother me health wise. It does make my gut stick out quite a bit, especially when I have food in my stomach. So it is really an aesthetic problem for me.
> 
> Do you have recommendations, certain exercises or tools that could help me. In what period of time should I notice improvement?
> 
> Thanks


 Yes, this usually happens because of weak abs. Train your abs with progressive overload. The best exercise is cable crunches.

To get rid of duck ass posture, strengthen your abs. It usually happens from lower back overpowering the abs, the spine tends to be slightly over extended .


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Been on 250mg test e cruise for quite a while now but i had very mild gyno which has got a lot worse and more painful since ive started increasing cals to gain more size. Any reason for this? Using nolva now to reverse lumps until i get get adex. Should i keep on the nolva after i get adex and if so for how many weeks?


 Do you have any labs on the 250 mg test E? Generally 0.5 mg will do the trick per week ( adex ) to keep E2 in a good range without overkill.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Sure you can try that, it will probably be almost the same with the CTS though. I gave you my recommendation already.


 Ah okay, point taken, and sorry for going in circles

I will go back to doing 4 iu once daily


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo whilst using ralox to reverse gyno is it necessary to crush/have low estrogen? And will it work whilst running HCG?
> 
> also is there any point in starting HCG late into a cycle?
> 
> thanks for all your help and hope you had a good Christmas


 No, the reason being with low/non-existent serum estrogen, the breast cells can still produce estrogen intracellularly, this is why AI doesn't work on gyno and you need a SERM to shut off the receptors directly.

Crashing E2 will just f**k up your libido, well-being/mood and performance in the gym/bedroom. No point and it won't help with gyno.

I need more details to answer your HCG question. Are you doing PCT post cycle? How late into the cycle/how long is the cycle? Etc


----------



## Dannyb0yb

On a side note I would just add, to people questioning the anabolic components of HGH, that when I went from 4 iu daily, to splitting the dose into 2 iu twice daily, muscle mass and strenght gain in the gym definitely went up. All exercises in the gym started feeling easier after a month.

Water retention and crippling CTS went nuts tho 

Edit: it might be a coincidence, but about the same time as strenght went up, stiffness in my achilles tendon when stretching it, dramatically improved (I have achilles tendionosis)


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> On a side note I would just add, to people questioning the anabolic components of HGH, that when I went from 4 iu daily, to splitting the dose into 2 iu twice daily, muscle mass and strenght gain in the gym definitely went up. All exercises in the gym started feeling easier after a month.
> 
> Water retention and crippling CTS went nuts tho
> 
> Edit: it might be a coincidence, but about the same time as strenght went up, stiffness in my achilles tendon when stretching it, dramatically improved (I have achilles tendionosis)


 Yes, in my experience, HGH is both underrated and overrated.

I found a big increase in mass/strength on 4 IU


----------



## 64rl0

Hi @ElChapo need a bit of an advise on HCG.

I've previously done 2 cycles, one test only and one test and deca.

PCT has always been nolva and clomid for 5 weeks.

Always done full blood work before starting each cycle and values were absolutely fine.

Anyways I'm now considering to add HCG at the end of my current cycle as I was thinking to extend the current cycle form 16 to 20 weeks.

I read that HCG would help a lot in recovering.

My question is, what protocol/dosage would you advise for HCG if I was going to start on the day of the last jab?

Thanks for the help


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo need a bit of an advise on HCG.
> 
> I've previously done 2 cycles, one test only and one test and deca.
> 
> PCT has always been nolva and clomid for 5 weeks.
> 
> Always done full blood work before starting each cycle and values were absolutely fine.
> 
> Anyways I'm now considering to add HCG at the end of my current cycle as I was thinking to extend the current cycle form 16 to 20 weeks.
> 
> I read that HCG would help a lot in recovering.
> 
> My question is, what protocol/dosage would you advise for HCG if I was going to start on the day of the last jab?
> 
> Thanks for the help


 The sooner you use HCG, the better. It prevents the testicles from atrophying in the first place. You should use it ASAP and ideally from day 1 of any cycle until 2 weeks after the last shot.

In your case i would start immediately if you have it on hand, otherwise, you can start on the day of your last injection so it starts working as the AAS gets out of your system. I recommend 1500 IU per week, x 2-3 per week split.


----------



## delbo

How well do you feel tamoxifen removes gyno at 20mg per day? Have been on a week now and doesn't seem to be doing much.


----------



## 64rl0

ElChapo said:


> The sooner you use HCG, the better. It prevents the testicles from atrophying in the first place. You should use it ASAP and ideally from day 1 of any cycle until 2 weeks after the last shot.
> 
> In your case i would start immediately if you have it on hand, otherwise, you can start on the day of your last injection so it starts working as the AAS gets out of your system. I recommend 1500 IU per week, x 2-3 per week split.


 thanks @ElChapo

just a couple of more questions please.

- can I jab HCG on at the same time that I jab test and deca or does it need to be done on a separate day?

- can I jab HCG intramuscular or it MUST be sub q?

- What is the ratio to mix bac water and HCG?

If I have a 5000 iu of HCG and want to make 10 syringes of 500iu each. does every syringe need to have 1ml of bac water or can the bac water be less?

For example, can I mix 5000 iu with 2ml of bac water?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> How well do you feel tamoxifen removes gyno at 20mg per day? Have been on a week now and doesn't seem to be doing much.


 It takes 8-12 weeks. It works +90% of the time even on old gyno/pubertal gyno. The reason most guys think it doesn't work is because they are impatient. It needs 8-12 weeks. it will work almost guaranteed. Make sure it's pharma grade only. No UGL stuff.


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> thanks @ElChapo
> 
> just a couple of more questions please.
> 
> - can I jab HCG on at the same time that I jab test and deca or does it need to be done on a separate day?
> 
> - can I jab HCG intramuscular or it MUST be sub q?
> 
> - What is the ratio to mix bac water and HCG?
> 
> If I have a 5000 iu of HCG and want to make 10 syringes of 500iu each. does every syringe need to have 1ml of bac water or can the bac water be less?
> 
> For example, can I mix 5000 iu with 2ml of bac water?


 Same day is fine and i recommend it. Makes it easier to remember/more convenient.

IM and SQ are both fine and will work. Mixing in the same syringe with AAS oil may cause PIP, some people do this.

The mixing ratio is entirely up to you:

If you have 5,000 IU HCG and mix 1 mL into the whole vial, each .10 mL or 10 units on an insulin needle will net you 500 IU. If you want to make it more volume, i suggest 2 mL instead so you need .2mL or 20 units for 500 IU, that way it's easier to measure. You can take .2 mL or 20 units x 3 weekly, MWF.

In summary/what i would do; mix 5,000 IU with 2 mL bac water. Take 0.2 aka 20 units on insulin needle mon/wed/fri OR 0.3 mL/30 units x 2 week. So total of .6 mL AKA 60 units per week. That will give you around 1,500 IU per week. The HCG will last 60 days in the refrigerator.


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> It takes 8-12 weeks. It works +90% of the time even on old gyno/pubertal gyno. The reason most guys think it doesn't work is because they are impatient. It needs 8-12 weeks. it will work almost guaranteed. Make sure it's pharma grade only. No UGL stuff.


 Do I have to be off cycle for it to work?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Do I have to be off cycle for it to work?


 No, unless you are taking trenbolone or nandrolone (deca)


----------



## 64rl0

ElChapo said:


> Same day is fine and i recommend it. Makes it easier to remember/more convenient.
> 
> IM and SQ are both fine and will work. Mixing in the same syringe with AAS oil may cause PIP, some people do this.
> 
> The mixing ratio is entirely up to you:
> 
> If you have 5,000 IU HCG and mix 1 mL into the whole vial, each .10 mL or 10 units on an insulin needle will net you 500 IU. If you want to make it more volume, i suggest 2 mL instead so you need .2mL or 20 units for 500 IU, that way it's easier to measure. You can take .2 mL or 20 units x 3 weekly, MWF.
> 
> In summary/what i would do; mix 5,000 IU with 2 mL bac water. Take 0.2 aka 20 units on insulin needle mon/wed/fri OR 0.3 mL/30 units x 2 week. So total of .6 mL AKA 60 units per week. That will give you around 1,500 IU per week. The HCG will last 60 days in the refrigerator.


 great, thanks @ElChapo

how long can I keep bac water once I've pulled out the 2ml I need for the HCG?

can I keep the same bac water for another vial of HCG? does it need to stay in the fridge?


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> great, thanks @ElChapo
> 
> how long can I keep bac water once I've pulled out the 2ml I need for the HCG?
> 
> can I keep the same bac water for another vial of HCG? does it need to stay in the fridge?


 Should be good forever despite expiration date. Bac water is just sterilized water with benzyl alcohol as a "bacteriostatic agent" used to stop bacteria from growing in it. Usually it's around 1% BA and 99% sterile water. You can even make your own, because the stuff is expensive to buy.

You can keep the same bac water. No need to refrigerate the bac water. Just make sure to alcohol swab the vial every time to draw bac water.


----------



## delbo

What's your opinion on subq 150mg test e injections twice weekly compared to 300mg IM once weekly?


----------



## 90537

@El Chapo 
Hello sir,

I have my first appointment with the endocrinologist on Monday morning after suffering with low test for 2 years now, Huge loss of libido, no errections, massive fatigue and weight gain and also poor concentration.

Is there anything else I could say or do to help my chances further of being taken seriously in them offering me treatment?

i take an anti depressant and also some codeine but I had low test 1.5 years before I started these meds, but I'm worried if they see I am on them they will try and blame them for my symptoms so should I not disclose them to the Dr?

I am desperate for help and whatever I do in life I am always disregarded and I've waited 6 months for this appointment I need it to go as well as possible.

Thanks in advance buddy 

Danny


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo could HGH be the cause of bone and joint pain? Since using HGH (3.3iu every night) for the past 3 months, I have been having bad pains in my shin bone, ankles, and legs and feet in general when doing any form of training that puts impact on my feet (running, boxing, and skipping). This is hindering my training greatly and only allowing me to train once per week as my feet and lower legs are in pain for a few days after, even when just walking. I still train with weights as this puts no stress on the feet/legs. I thought that HGH was supposed to benefit joints due to its increase in collagen synthesis and the 2/3kg of water retention that I've gained, but my joints and bones feel terrible.

thanks


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo could HGH be the cause of bone and joint pain? Since using HGH (3.3iu every night) for the past 3 months, I have been having bad pains in my shin bone, ankles, and legs and feet in general when doing any form of training that puts impact on my feet (running, boxing, and skipping). This is hindering my training greatly and only allowing me to train once per week as my feet and lower legs are in pain for a few days after, even when just walking. I still train with weights as this puts no stress on the feet/legs. I thought that HGH was supposed to benefit joints due to its increase in collagen synthesis and the 2/3kg of water retention that I've gained, but my joints and bones feel terrible.
> 
> thanks


 Not elchapo but have you tried lowering the dose? Perhaps to 2.5 iu.

I started at 3 iu and gradually increased t 4 iu over months, and I still put on water. When water retention was peaking I could barely walk due to ankle pain from alle the water

I would guess it's water retention causing pain, because your HGH dose is too high

Drinking 3-4 liter water ed also helps


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> What's your opinion on subq 150mg test e injections twice weekly compared to 300mg IM once weekly?


 I'm against SQ. No benefit over IM and risk of PIP and lower absorption.

x 2 weekly injections for E and C are ideal for stability. Less E2 conversion and better results.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @El Chapo
> Hello sir,
> 
> I have my first appointment with the endocrinologist on Monday morning after suffering with low test for 2 years now, Huge loss of libido, no errections, massive fatigue and weight gain and also poor concentration.
> 
> Is there anything else I could say or do to help my chances further of being taken seriously in them offering me treatment?
> 
> i take an anti depressant and also some codeine but I had low test 1.5 years before I started these meds, but I'm worried if they see I am on them they will try and blame them for my symptoms so should I not disclose them to the Dr?
> 
> I am desperate for help and whatever I do in life I am always disregarded and I've waited 6 months for this appointment I need it to go as well as possible.
> 
> Thanks in advance buddy
> 
> Danny


 Why are you not on TRT with low testosterone? Have you gotten labs done? Before 10 AM in the morning fasted?

Codeine and anti-depressants can both lower testosterone. Are you on SSRI? I would come off that once your TRT is started because SSRI can block the libido boost from testosterone.

I'd have a better idea of your chances if we had labs. If you have to self-treat, i'm not against that either.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo could HGH be the cause of bone and joint pain? Since using HGH (3.3iu every night) for the past 3 months, I have been having bad pains in my shin bone, ankles, and legs and feet in general when doing any form of training that puts impact on my feet (running, boxing, and skipping). This is hindering my training greatly and only allowing me to train once per week as my feet and lower legs are in pain for a few days after, even when just walking. I still train with weights as this puts no stress on the feet/legs. I thought that HGH was supposed to benefit joints due to its increase in collagen synthesis and the 2/3kg of water retention that I've gained, but my joints and bones feel terrible.
> 
> thanks


 Sounds like shin splits or shin pumps. Only the pumps might be related to HGH.

You likely have shin splits. You need to stretch out your calves, shins and ankles vigorously and take at least 1-2 weeks off training to let them heal. If you keep training through it, it can be come chronic. Some people get aches from HGH. It's overrated and underrated at the same time.

Like the other poster said, lowering your dose and upping water intake will help but you might be better off without HGH. Do you know your pre hgh IGF-1 levels? You may already have good levels.


----------



## 90537

ElChapo said:


> Why are you not on TRT with low testosterone? Have you gotten labs done? Before 10 AM in the morning fasted?
> 
> Codeine and anti-depressants can both lower testosterone. Are you on SSRI? I would come off that once your TRT is started because SSRI can block the libido boost from testosterone.
> 
> I'd have a better idea of your chances if we had labs. If you have to self-treat, i'm not against that either.


 My labs were close to zero mate that's how low my test is, this will be my first appointment with the endo on Monday following a referral from my general doctor.

my problems started a long time before I was on this medication, I was close to self administration of nebido until my doctor referred me to the endocrinologist I just need ways to help back up my bloods on paper that's all.

Thanks in advance buddy.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> My labs were close to zero mate that's how low my test is, this will be my first appointment with the endo on Monday following a referral from my general doctor.
> 
> my problems started a long time before I was on this medication, I was close to self administration of nebido until my doctor referred me to the endocrinologist I just need ways to help back up my bloods on paper that's all.
> 
> Thanks in advance buddy.


 I don't see how they will deny you. The only issue is NHS likes to use nebido with a frequency of one injection every 2 months or something ridiculous like that. Someone correct me on the details.

Nebido has to be used at least every 2 weeks for stable levels. Cyp/E needs to be dosed x 1-2 weekly.


----------



## 90537

ElChapo said:


> I don't see how they will deny you. The only issue is NHS likes to use nebido with a frequency of one injection every 2 months or something ridiculous like that. Someone correct me on the details.
> 
> Nebido has to be used at least every 2 weeks for stable levels. Cyp/E needs to be dosed x 1-2 weekly.


 Yeah a lad I know is on nebido nhs and it's every 8-12 weeks 4ml jab.

if I do get trt do you think after a year when all is settled I would be able to run things like some prop or deca or tbol?

I know with prop I would need to time it coming off as to not affect the bloods my endo would be carrying out, last thing I'd want is to be kicked off the programme.

would deca or tbol or anavar affect my readings for trt bloods? Would they raise any suspicion?

Thanks @elchapo


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> Yeah a lad I know is on nebido nhs and it's every 8-12 weeks 4ml jab.
> 
> if I do get trt do you think after a year when all is settled I would be able to run things like some prop or deca or tbol?
> 
> I know with prop I would need to time it coming off as to not affect the bloods my endo would be carrying out, last thing I'd want is to be kicked off the programme.
> 
> would deca or tbol or anavar affect my readings for trt bloods? Would they raise any suspicion?
> 
> Thanks @elchapo


 This graph shows you what every 8 weeks nebido at 1,000 MG per injection looks like. You have normal-high levels for the first month and average-low levels in month two. Not too bad though and beats having low testosterone levels.









Deca can pop as testosterone and make your testosterone results come out very high, tbol/anavar could raise your liver enzymes. So yes, this is possible. Not sure how often you would get tested on nebido in the UK, probably not that often, so you could time your cycle around your tests.


----------



## jj1996

Hey mate, with anavar at 50mg is it safe to run for long periods 12-16 weeks along side test/npp?


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> Yeah a lad I know is on nebido nhs and it's every 8-12 weeks 4ml jab.
> 
> if I do get trt do you think after a year when all is settled I would be able to run things like some prop or deca or tbol?
> 
> I know with prop I would need to time it coming off as to not affect the bloods my endo would be carrying out, last thing I'd want is to be kicked off the programme.
> 
> would deca or tbol or anavar affect my readings for trt bloods? Would they raise any suspicion?
> 
> Thanks @elchapo


 *From all the research on TRT (Note this is applicable to Cyp/Enanthate):*

· Effects on *sexual interest *appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, no further increments beyond.

· Changes in *erections/ejaculations* may require up to 6 months.

· Effects on *quality of life* manifest within 3-4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer.

· Effects on *depressive mood* appear after 3-6 weeks with a maximum after 18-30 weeks.

· First effects on erythropoiesis (increased *red blood cells*) after 3 months, peaking at 9-12 months.

· *Prostate specific antigen and volume* rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase related to aging rather than therapy.

· Effects on *lipids *appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6-12 months.

. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3-12 months.

· Changes in *fat mass, lean body mass and muscle strength* occur within 12-16 weeks, stabilize at 6-12 months, but marginally continue to improve over years.

. Effects on *inflammation* occur within 3 to 12 weeks.

· Effects on *bone *detectable after 6 months but continue at least for 3 years.


----------



## Tommy D

Hi El Chapo.

To what extent do AAS really affect the immune system negatively? Is it a proven fact, dose or compound dependant?

Specifically asking about test, nandrolone and tren? Could you use moderate doses of each for moderate amounts of time and not experience much of an immunosuppression? Or is it a given fact that any amount for any length of time would negatively affect the immune system?

Thanks


----------



## halfbar

Hi mate,

I picked up some clen which I was planning on using for the first time in a couple of months, but I got thinking. Last test-e cycle I did I ran without any AI, my estrogen was through the roof and I was sweating like a bitch all day but I didn't seem to notice any huge negative effects so I just ran with it. I needed 4500-5000 calories a day just to maintain, my metabolism must have been significantly up.

Second test-e cycle and I'm running arimidex succesfully, estrogen is within normal boundaries, all going well (kind of too well actually, libido isn't insane like it was last time, taken some of the fun away) - but I'm gaining nicely on significantly less calories.

That was a long winded way of saying I'm pretty sure I could cut very easily on test-e just by letting my estrogen get out of control.

Question - which would be the lesser of two evils regarding my health - a test-e cycle with e2 left to roam free or a clen cycle?


----------



## pma111

With supplements like curcumin and pine bark... do there effects last throughout the day or just a few hours.. if its the latter is it best to split doses for a couple of times per day?


----------



## 90537

Hi @El Chapo I had a severe seizure in February of this year, I was on a moderate test mast tren cycle at the time on about week 10 and I fell very ill

Have you ever come across anyone having a seizure/fit due to anabolic steroid use? I have been using for many years but mainly test and deca only twice with tren.

My neurologist said it's not likely the steroids but they was the only substances I was taking at the time and all my brain scans and blood tests revealed nothing conclusive either.

Thanks for your reply in advance.

Danny


----------



## ElChapo

Tommy D said:


> Hi El Chapo.
> 
> To what extent do AAS really affect the immune system negatively? Is it a proven fact, dose or compound dependant?
> 
> Specifically asking about test, nandrolone and tren? Could you use moderate doses of each for moderate amounts of time and not experience much of an immunosuppression? Or is it a given fact that any amount for any length of time would negatively affect the immune system?
> 
> Thanks


 On paper, androgens reduce immune function. In real practice, the effect does not affect us in any significant way.

This is the theory behind why women are more susceptible to autoimmune diseases, because men have the protective effect from testosterone which lowers immune function. In this case, the bad kind. Another theory behind why men suffer more than women during cold/flu sickness.

You will not experience any "anti-immune effect" from taking high doses of AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

halfbar said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> I picked up some clen which I was planning on using for the first time in a couple of months, but I got thinking. Last test-e cycle I did I ran without any AI, my estrogen was through the roof and I was sweating like a bitch all day but I didn't seem to notice any huge negative effects so I just ran with it. I needed 4500-5000 calories a day just to maintain, my metabolism must have been significantly up.
> 
> Second test-e cycle and I'm running arimidex succesfully, estrogen is within normal boundaries, all going well (kind of too well actually, libido isn't insane like it was last time, taken some of the fun away) - but I'm gaining nicely on significantly less calories.
> 
> That was a long winded way of saying I'm pretty sure I could cut very easily on test-e just by letting my estrogen get out of control.
> 
> Question - which would be the lesser of two evils regarding my health - a test-e cycle with e2 left to roam free or a clen cycle?


 In studies, blocking E2 with TRT removed the benefits to body composition/fat loss. You need E2 because it does improve metabolism/libido/well-being. It affects metabolism through the beta adrenergic/alpha adrenergic receptors and increases leptin, the master hormone of metabolism/satiety. It improves libido through dopaminergic mechanisms in the brain. Without converting to E2, testosterone does not improve libido or aggression in mouse and human studies.

High estrogen reduces appetite by increasing leptin which makes cutting easier. A common symptom of crashed E2 is craving carbs/sweets, likely due to lower leptin and the body trying to increase brain serotonin levels to self-medicate.

High E2 is fine and not dangerous short term, high-normal is usually ideal for TRT for mood/libido/etc. Clenbuterol is also safe used correctly with no pre-existing heart conditions or hypertension (high BP), as long as dose and time on is not excessive. Results should be 100% from your caloric deficit and fat burners like clen just speed up results.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> With supplements like curcumin and pine bark... do there effects last throughout the day or just a few hours.. if its the latter is it best to split doses for a couple of times per day?


 They last through the day and long-term. Often times, the compounds we take with short-half lives breakdown into metabolites with much longer half-lives (as seen with yohimbine). A common effect of pine bark/pycnogenol is increased erection strength and morning wood frequency ( happens to me on 200 mg pycnognenol, i take it with dinner). Once daily is plenty, take with food for best absorption, especially for curcumin which absorbs best with a fatty meal. Pycnogenol on empty stomach can cause upset stomach.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> Hi @El Chapo I had a severe seizure in February of this year, I was on a moderate test mast tren cycle at the time on about week 10 and I fell very ill
> 
> Have you ever come across anyone having a seizure/fit due to anabolic steroid use? I have been using for many years but mainly test and deca only twice with tren.
> 
> My neurologist said it's not likely the steroids but they was the only substances I was taking at the time and all my brain scans and blood tests revealed nothing conclusive either.
> 
> Thanks for your reply in advance.
> 
> Danny


 People susceptible to seizure could see increase in frequency/intensity from high estradiol levels because it increase brain excitation by inhibiting MAO (monoamine oxidase). Women with epilepsy are more like to have a seizure with higher intensity during the time of the month when their E2 is highest ( ovulation/late follicular phase).

Otherwise, it's unlikely to be the AAS as your doctor state. Is this your first seizure?


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Hey mate, with anavar at 50mg is it safe to run for long periods 12-16 weeks along side test/npp?


 Yes, very safe. Anavar is very mild on the liver. You can take TUDCA or UDCA at 250-500 mg and NAC at 1000 mg for extra protection. Anavar is approved for use in burn victims, HIV patients, and some doctors use it in women's HRT too.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Yes, very safe. Anavar is very mild on the liver. You can take TUDCA or UDCA at 250-500 mg and NAC at 1000 mg for extra protection. Anavar is approved for use in burn victims, HIV patients, and some doctors use it in women's HRT too.


 I've read its primarily metabolised by the kidneys. Is it harmful to kidneys directly? (with no BP or BG issues)


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> I've read its primarily metabolised by the kidneys. Is it harmful to kidneys directly? (with no BP or BG issues)


 No, androgens are harmless to kidney in real practice unless they elevated blood pressure for a very long time.

In test tube studies, androgens have been shown to be toxic to renal cells, in real life this doesn't matter.


----------



## 90537

ElChapo said:


> People susceptible to seizure could see increase in frequency/intensity from high estradiol levels because it increase brain excitation by inhibiting MAO (monoamine oxidase). Women with epilepsy are more like to have a seizure with higher intensity during the time of the month when their E2 is highest ( ovulation/late follicular phase).
> 
> Otherwise, it's unlikely to be the AAS as your doctor state. Is this your first seizure?


 Hi elchapo

This was my first ever seizure at 33 years old, the neurologist said it is very strange indeed to have a seizure after 30 years old if there was no previous history

I was blasting
600 test p, 400 tren ace and 300 mast p

Its scared the s**t out of me ever using steroids again to be honest buddy

Danny


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo

Hi mate.

Thoughts on Sustanon vs Test e?

Usually always run either 125mg or 250mg year around test E, 1x jab per week.

Currently running 125mg test e last 10 weeks, but supp only got 250 sust in stock.

Will it matter switching to the sust 0.5ml once a week? So 125mg of the combined esters.

Also any difference at higher dosages like 250-500mg pw between the two? (Again 1 jab per week).

pinning more than once a week isn't an option I'm Afraid.

Thank you sir.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> Hi elchapo
> 
> This was my first ever seizure at 33 years old, the neurologist said it is very strange indeed to have a seizure after 30 years old if there was no previous history
> 
> I was blasting
> 600 test p, 400 tren ace and 300 mast p
> 
> Its scared the s**t out of me ever using steroids again to be honest buddy
> 
> Danny


 Did you have any recent head trauma or viral infection/flu? Sudden onset would point to some kind of environmental factor.

Otherwise, it could have been contaminated UGL (also unlikely). Very strange case.

Did you start any new meds in the past year?


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate.
> 
> Thoughts on Sustanon vs Test e?
> 
> Usually always run either 125mg or 250mg year around test E, 1x jab per week.
> 
> Currently running 125mg test e last 10 weeks, but supp only got 250 sust in stock.
> 
> Will it matter switching to the sust 0.5ml once a week? So 125mg of the combined esters.
> 
> Also any difference at higher dosages like 250-500mg pw between the two? (Again 1 jab per week).
> 
> pinning more than once a week isn't an option I'm Afraid.
> 
> Thank you sir.


 They will both do the job. Some people love sustanon and it seems to produce less water retention. Between test p and e. I prefer propionate and short esters.

You won't find a significant difference between them. Less water retention, maybe more energy/libido compared to E from the big testosterone spikes.


----------



## 90537

I had taken diazepam and tramadol separately 3 months prior to the seizure buddy

Danny


----------



## 90537

ElChapo said:


> Did you have any recent head trauma or viral infection/flu? Sudden onset would point to some kind of environmental factor.
> 
> I had taken diazepam and tramadol separately 3 months prior to the seizure buddy


----------



## strawberry123

Shergar said:


> I had taken diazepam and tramadol separately 3 months prior to the seizure buddy
> 
> Danny


 Have personally seen benzos cause seizures in multiple people I know, I'd say was more like those than AAS


----------



## 90537

strawberry123 said:


> Have personally seen benzos cause seizures in multiple people I know, I'd say was more like those than AAS


 Yeh many people know benzo withdrawal can cause seizures, but this was months and months later and a very bad seizure and just the one on its own and none since, very strange and the neurologist kinda ruled the benzos out.

Thanks for chipping in buddy.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> I had taken diazepam and tramadol separately 3 months prior to the seizure buddy
> 
> Danny


 What did you take them for and for how long?


----------



## pma111

By what mechanism does water retention affect the heart / make it work harder.


----------



## 90537

ElChapo said:


> What did you take them for and for how long?


 Tramadol for back pain and diazepam for anxiety buddy.

I was on steroids only when I had the diazepam, I was stupid and abused it, often using a full script in one day and then having to source my own.

Drinking very often and using more benzos then a couple of months later I have a huge seizure, very weird I'd never had one before or when I first come off the benzos, I don't know if I'll ever use steroids again now in case it was them I believe tren can do funny things to the brain as can the benzos and opioids.


----------



## y2_dyc

Morning El Chapo ?

I'm currently on a cycle of test and tren e - dosages are 600 test/400 tren. I'm 8 weeks into the cycle, and in terms of gains, I'm bigger, leaner, stronger and enjoying the gym.

This is my 3rd cycle dabbling with tren, but this is the first time I've experienced the negative mental sides. I get the occasional day of depression which is nothing I can't snap out of.

Question is, would it be worth adjusting the ratio to say 300 test/600 tren. Would that help with the negative side effects, but I'm more interested if that would also increase gains significantly with the higher dose of tren?

After watching a Greg Doucette video - he advised if you hit a plateau, you either increase calories or increase the dose of your cycle - what's your views?

Thanks and Happy NY!


----------



## strawberry123

My source has just started stocking nandrolone base 50mg/ml and tri bold 100mg each of bold ace cyp and Undecylenate for 300mg/ml.

any experience with either of these @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> By what mechanism does water retention affect the heart / make it work harder.


 More volume to pump = Faster/harder heart beat necessary. The heart is two things, a muscle and a pump.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> Tramadol for back pain and diazepam for anxiety buddy.
> 
> I was on steroids only when I had the diazepam, I was stupid and abused it, often using a full script in one day and then having to source my own.
> 
> Drinking very often and using more benzos then a couple of months later I have a huge seizure, very weird I'd never had one before or when I first come off the benzos, I don't know if I'll ever use steroids again now in case it was them I believe tren can do funny things to the brain as can the benzos and opioids.


 So your seizures are likely linked to your alcohol and benzo use.

It's not steroids.


----------



## ElChapo

y2_dyc said:


> Morning El Chapo ?
> 
> I'm currently on a cycle of test and tren e - dosages are 600 test/400 tren. I'm 8 weeks into the cycle, and in terms of gains, I'm bigger, leaner, stronger and enjoying the gym.
> 
> This is my 3rd cycle dabbling with tren, but this is the first time I've experienced the negative mental sides. I get the occasional day of depression which is nothing I can't snap out of.
> 
> Question is, would it be worth adjusting the ratio to say 300 test/600 tren. Would that help with the negative side effects, but I'm more interested if that would also increase gains significantly with the higher dose of tren?
> 
> After watching a Greg Doucette video - he advised if you hit a plateau, you either increase calories or increase the dose of your cycle - what's your views?
> 
> Thanks and Happy NY!


 Probably too late. How much longer do you have in your cycle? If it's almost done, just finish. If there's some time left, then go by what gave you good results in the past. Is your Test/Tren ratio different this time around to what you did previously? Then go back to what worked for you some some guys feel better with higher test and some feel better on higher tren. The best ratio for gains is 1:1 but that can increase side effects. Many pros keep their tren fairly low (200-300 mg per week) since it can affect appetite and sleep which can hinder gains.

If you hit a plateau i would first look at training volume. It's usually too high in most gym goers. Focus more on increasing your reps/weight in all your movements. Many people train too much which depletes energy/taxes the CNS and this hinders progressive overload. This is the most common plateau reason. You can adjust calories up by 250 daily if you ruled out training volume/lack of progressive overload. Increasing AAS dose is usually not the answer.

Thank you brother, Happy New Years


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> My source has just started stocking nandrolone base 50mg/ml and tri bold 100mg each of bold ace cyp and Undecylenate for 300mg/ml.
> 
> any experience with either of these @ElChapo


 Stick to the tried and true basics. No need for fancy stuff. I don't recommend either of these. Progressive overload/nutrition is the foundation of gains. Basic AAS stack will do the job sufficiently every time.


----------



## delbo

Would there be much additional gains to be made on 5/600mg test e compared to 300mg if all other aspects (training, calories etc) are the same?

Just wondering if I should up my dose for quicker results.


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo Continued thanks for all your advice.

Can you please let me have your recommended doses for:

Fish oil (dpa and epa combined):

D3:

K2:

Circumin (Longvida 500mg caps):

pycnogenol:

Happy New Year to you.


----------



## 90537

What are your views @El Chapo on some of the old school bodybuilding cycles such as deca only or Dianabol & Deca or even what I'm seeing a lot lately of TRT with higher deca cycles?

Danny


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Would there be much additional gains to be made on 5/600mg test e compared to 300mg if all other aspects (training, calories etc) are the same?
> 
> Just wondering if I should up my dose for quicker results.


 Depends on your experience level, response to AAS, etc. Generally, higher dose = more gains, IF you train correctly/eat enough, etc. It's best to max out your gains at lower/moderate doses so you can increase as needed later.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo Continued thanks for all your advice.
> 
> Can you please let me have your recommended doses for:
> 
> Fish oil (dpa and epa combined):
> 
> D3:
> 
> K2:
> 
> Circumin (Longvida 500mg caps):
> 
> pycnogenol:
> 
> Happy New Year to you.


 Not a fan of fish oil honestly. Don't react well to it, but Carlson's is my recommendation for quality/value/freshness and potency. I forget the numbers for DHA/EPA. I would refer to examine.com

Vitamin D3: 5,000 IU with a fatty meal, if very deficient, 10,000 IU for 4 weeks then 5,000 IU for maintenance. Target level is 40-70 ng/dL. Must be taken with fatty meal for optimal absorption.

K2: MK7 form 100-200 mcg MK4 +1 mg

Longvida: 1-2 caps with a fatty meal.

Pycnogenol: 100-200 mg with or without food.

Happy New Years, thank you brother


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> What are your views @El Chapo on some of the old school bodybuilding cycles such as deca only or Dianabol & Deca or even what I'm seeing a lot lately of TRT with higher deca cycles?
> 
> Danny


 They can work. 100% of your gains will come from proper diet and training. (sufficient calories+progressive overload+Sufficient rest/recovery). AAS just make the gains quicker and beyond your genetic limit, that's it.


----------



## delbo

Thanks for the reply mate honestly appreciate it.

You're a big fan of winny.. Any tips on avoiding the joint pain while running?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Thanks for the reply mate honestly appreciate it.
> 
> You're a big fan of winny.. Any tips on avoiding the joint pain while running?


 Seems more likely to happen in people with low vitamin D, just a theory from a paper on low E2 and joint pain. It seems winstrol can also bind to progesterone receptors.

Some people run it with NPP with good results for joint pain and great synergy for muscle and strength building as well.


----------



## pma111

People with blood sugar issues seem to be more prone to issues with circulation/ heart health. Is that because glucose damages arteries in some way?


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> Seems more likely to happen in people with low vitamin D, just a theory from a paper on low E2 and joint pain. It seems winstrol can also bind to progesterone receptors.
> 
> Some people run it with NPP with good results for joint pain and great synergy for muscle and strength building as well.


 That's the cycle I want to run at the moment but i have a holiday in 8 weeks and don't want to run anything that might cause me to retain water so I'm thinking trt test 350mg winny and dnp for last 4 weeks at 200mg?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> People with blood sugar issues seem to be more prone to issues with circulation/ heart health. Is that because glucose damages arteries in some way?


 Correct, exactly. Uncontrolled diabetes is a risk factor for heart disease.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> That's the cycle I want to run at the moment but i have a holiday in 8 weeks and don't want to run anything that might cause me to retain water so I'm thinking trt test 350mg winny and dnp for last 4 weeks at 200mg?


 NPP should not cause a lot of water at a low-moderate dose. You can do 150/150 TEST P/NPP+Winstrol.


----------



## Pancake'

Least amount of EQ required for a noticeable appetite increase?


----------



## danizarzu

Hi @ElChapo

any concern using low dose DNP (250mg EOD) with a PPAR agonist like Cardarine?

thanks for all your advice

Happy New Year


----------



## 90537

@El Chapo Hello buddy,

What would be the best dose and frequency of test undecanoate (nebido) for trt with the least amount of pinning to gain optimal levels of test?


----------



## delbo

Split or all at once dosing for orals?


----------



## zariph

Hey mate

Could you explain what the benefits are of running primo? Also which doses would you recommend, and how would you use it in a cycle?

Thing is, I dont really get why people run primo as it seems expensive and very weak comparet to other AAS, I know it may have less side effects, but why not just run a decent dose test instead of adding primo?


----------



## arbffgadm100

zariph said:


> Hey mate
> 
> Could you explain what the benefits are of running primo? Also which doses would you recommend, and how would you use it in a cycle?
> 
> Thing is, I dont really get why people run primo as it seems expensive and very weak comparet to other AAS, *I know it may have less side effects*, but why not just run a decent dose test instead of adding primo?


 You're welcome.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Least amount of EQ required for a noticeable appetite increase?


 Idk, not an EQ fan. Too mild, need high doses and takes a very long time to kick in. High dose Testosterone should increase appetite.


----------



## ElChapo

danizarzu said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> any concern using low dose DNP (250mg EOD) with a PPAR agonist like Cardarine?
> 
> thanks for all your advice
> 
> Happy New Year


 No

Happy new year brother, thank you


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @El Chapo Hello buddy,
> 
> What would be the best dose and frequency of test undecanoate (nebido) for trt with the least amount of pinning to gain optimal levels of test?


 100-300 mg per week every 7 days or every 14 days.

You can experiment with doses/frequency here:

steroidcalc.com

This will show you what levels will look like.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Split or all at once dosing for orals?


 All at once


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey mate
> 
> Could you explain what the benefits are of running primo? Also which doses would you recommend, and how would you use it in a cycle?
> 
> Thing is, I dont really get why people run primo as it seems expensive and very weak comparet to other AAS, I know it may have less side effects, but why not just run a decent dose test instead of adding primo?


 It's overrated. Test/npp/tren/winstrol/superdrol, gh/slin. That's all you will ever need. Primo is not a magic compound.


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> Before taking HGH, it's a good idea to get a baseline IGF-1 reading. IGF-1 is the best way to test how your natural GH production is. This way you know where you are starting from.
> 
> 1- I would start are 3 IU, that's a good median dosage. The only common HGH side effects are somnolence(sleepiness), tight hands/carpal tunnel, and sometimes achy joints. Water retention and increase in heart rate/BP are also normal. You can mitigate the sleepiness by taking HGH before bedtime.
> 
> 2- Correct, the 10 IU protocol is to test the legitimacy of the HGH. Technically, you could skip a day or two after that big shot. Mon/Wed/Fri and EOD dosing has been shown to work in studies and this is the way the olympic athletes were running it according to the BALCO scandal data.
> 
> 3- I would take it 2-4 hours prior to bedtime. That's how i do it. I am very sensitize to the sleepiness and this fix it for me.
> 
> 4- IM injections, 29-31 gauge, 5/16th-1/2 inch needles are good. I recommend backfilling your syringes for the week after you reconstitute a weeks worth of HGH. This is the most convinient way i've found for using it. If you are going to do it long-term, you want to make it easy/simple and as little of a headache as possible.
> 
> Anytime brother, glad to help.


 Hey mate

so i took your advice and got my IGF-1 Levels tested prior to starting this course, my baseline reading was IGF-1 34.3 nmol/L. Since then i have been on 3iu for 5 days and off the weekend.

So now i am at the 3 month mark i have booked in for another IGF-1 test to check my levels (and at the same time test the authenticity of the source/product.)

I was just wondering if i should expect to see dramatically higher numbers when the results come back or if IGF-1 numbers dont fluctuate much.

basically, is it like my free test levels when on a cycle, in that my natural level is about 13 but when on a cycle of testosterone they can go up to in the 100's.

I saw a IGF-1 reference chart earlier that indicated that an 18 year old male IGF-1 range was between 14.2 - 63.4.

Once again, thank you for the benefit of your knowledge, it really is much appreciated.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It's overrated. Test/npp/tren/winstrol/superdrol, gh/slin. That's all you will ever need. Primo is not a magic compound.


 Thx man,

Now that you mention gh/slin, Iøve never done any of those, when and who do you think should use gh/slin and how far wil Test/npp/tren/winstrol/superdrol, go without gh/slin?


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> Hey mate
> 
> so i took your advice and got my IGF-1 Levels tested prior to starting this course, my baseline reading was IGF-1 34.3 nmol/L. Since then i have been on 3iu for 5 days and off the weekend.
> 
> So now i am at the 3 month mark i have booked in for another IGF-1 test to check my levels (and at the same time test the authenticity of the source/product.)
> 
> I was just wondering if i should expect to see dramatically higher numbers when the results come back or if IGF-1 numbers dont fluctuate much.
> 
> basically, is it like my free test levels when on a cycle, in that my natural level is about 13 but when on a cycle of testosterone they can go up to in the 100's.
> 
> I saw a IGF-1 reference chart earlier that indicated that an 18 year old male IGF-1 range was between 14.2 - 63.4.
> 
> Once again, thank you for the benefit of your knowledge, it really is much appreciated.


 Your levels are already pretty good and 3 IU will usually put you at your level or a bit higher. I would bump that to 4 IU, take 7 days per week. Don't do the 5 on/2 off, no benefit to that.

On 3 IU your levels will be similar to baseline or maybe as high as 45.75 nmol? I would do 4 IU x 7 days a week but again; depends on your goals.

HGH will shut down your own production and replace what you make


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx man,
> 
> Now that you mention gh/slin, Iøve never done any of those, when and who do you think should use gh/slin and how far wil Test/npp/tren/winstrol/superdrol, go without gh/slin?


 That entirely depends on your goals and genetics. Most guys do not need slin/gh and what they are missing is proper training/nutrition but everyone thinks they know training/nutrition.

What are your physique goals? Who do you want to look like? GH/slin is necessary for mass monster level, most people do not need GH/slin combo. It is for advanced bodybuilders only.


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> Your levels are already pretty good and 3 IU will usually put you at your level or a bit higher. I would bump that to 4 IU, take 7 days per week. Don't do the 5 on/2 off, no benefit to that.
> 
> On 3 IU your levels will be similar to baseline or maybe as high as 45.75 nmol? I would do 4 IU x 7 days a week but again; depends on your goals.
> 
> HGH will shut down your own production and replace what you make


 ok mate, will await the test results and if the source is good to go then i will up to 4iu 7 days.

s**t is pretty expensive tbh.

thanks again


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapoMy wife wanting to try gh for anti aging purposes and maybe tighten up a little but looking at it long term (she's 42 btw). How would you recommend running it please? I was thinking start with 0.5iu and go up to 1-1.5 per day once a day a few hours before bed.


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> ok mate, will await the test results and if the source is good to go then i will up to 4iu 7 days.
> 
> s**t is pretty expensive tbh.
> 
> thanks again


 It's both overrated and underrated. It depends what you are using it for. You have good IGF-1 levels at baseline too already. What is your goal with HGH?


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapoMy wife wanting to try gh for anti aging purposes and maybe tighten up a little but looking at it long term (she's 42 btw). How would you recommend running it please? I was thinking start with 0.5iu and go up to 1-1.5 per day once a day a few hours before bed.


 Get IGF-1 test before she uses HGH so you know her baseline.

Around 2 IU is the anti-aging dose to get IGF-1 into the 200s-300s, but first get baseline IGF-1 to see if she would benefit from HGH.


----------



## Big Ian

ElChapo said:


> Get IGF-1 test before she uses HGH so you know her baseline.
> 
> Around 2 IU is the anti-aging dose to get IGF-1 into the 200s-300s, but first get baseline IGF-1 to see if she would benefit from HGH.


 Ok I will do mate, do you think it's worth tapering up to the 2iu if it looks like she will benefit?


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> K2: MK7 form 100-200 mcg MK4 +1 mg


 sorry mate was this MK7 100-200mg AND mk4 1mg+?

Or one of the other? struggling to find the mk4!


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> It's both overrated and underrated. It depends what you are using it for. You have good IGF-1 levels at baseline too already. What is your goal with HGH?


 just the bog standard bodybuilding benefits, size, boost metabolism, heal quicker etc

i am abit confused though with your reply as you said

"On 3 IU your levels will be similar to baseline or maybe as high as 45.75 nmol?"

But then in your reply to @Big Ian you said

"Around 2 IU is the anti-aging dose to get IGF-1 into the 200s-300s"

apologies for picking you up on it i just want to ensure i have the right info and both those statements seem to contradict.

Thanks bro


----------



## Dannyb0yb

vlb said:


> just the bog standard bodybuilding benefits, size, boost metabolism, heal quicker etc
> 
> i am abit confused though with your reply as you said
> 
> "On 3 IU your levels will be similar to baseline or maybe as high as 45.75 nmol?"
> 
> But then in your reply to @Big Ian you said
> 
> "Around 2 IU is the anti-aging dose to get IGF-1 into the 200s-300s"
> 
> apologies for picking you up on it i just want to ensure i have the right info and both those statements seem to contradict.
> 
> Thanks bro


 I was wondering the same 

My long term plan was to eventually drop to 3 iu hgh for anti aging


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> just the bog standard bodybuilding benefits, size, boost metabolism, heal quicker etc
> 
> i am abit confused though with your reply as you said
> 
> "On 3 IU your levels will be similar to baseline or maybe as high as 45.75 nmol?"
> 
> But then in your reply to @Big Ian you said
> 
> "Around 2 IU is the anti-aging dose to get IGF-1 into the 200s-300s"
> 
> apologies for picking you up on it i just want to ensure i have the right info and both those statements seem to contradict.
> 
> Thanks bro


 Re-read as many times as you need to but both statements make perfect sense together.

Your baseline is high, 3 IU will put you in that range close to your baseline.

2 IU is the typical anti-aging dose. Sometimes 3 IU. Target for anti-aging is mid 200s-low 300s ng/mL

You can convert UK units to USA units here: http://unitslab.com/node/230


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> Ok I will do mate, do you think it's worth tapering up to the 2iu if it looks like she will benefit?


 Yeah, if her IGF-1 is under 170 ng/mL then you can add 200 IU and see if that puts her in the 200s.

Target for anti-aging is Mid 200s-low 300s


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> sorry mate was this MK7 100-200mg AND mk4 1mg+?
> 
> Or one of the other? struggling to find the mk4!


 One or the other.

Life extension Super K has both in those doses. I believe carlson's and pure encapsulations carry MK4. Some people get weird heart palpitations from MK7 for whatever reason. Could be something to do with calcium metabolism as calcium is an important cardiac electrolyte.


----------



## Devil

ElChapo said:


> One or the other.
> 
> Life extension Super K has both in those doses. I believe carlson's and pure encapsulations carry MK4. Some people get weird heart palpitations from MK7 for whatever reason. Could be something to do with calcium metabolism as calcium is an important cardiac electrolyte.


 Thanks mate, ended up getting these which seem good value + top reviews.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XSJFTXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> Re-read as many times as you need to but both statements make perfect sense together.
> 
> Your baseline is high, 3 IU will put you in that range close to your baseline.
> 
> 2 IU is the typical anti-aging dose. Sometimes 3 IU. Target for anti-aging is mid 200s-low 300s ng/mL
> 
> You can convert UK units to USA units here: http://unitslab.com/node/230


 Apologise bro I didn't realise there were different units for USA levels and UK levels.

Which just goes to reinforce why your knowledge is so beneficial to us

Thanks for the education.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo I read you talk about stoicism as a philosophy for dealing with adversity. I had read about it before but lately have been getting more into it.

Do you have some good forums/links/books you can recommend?


----------



## sos2008

Hi @ElChapo from a medical perspective and your own opinion what would be the difference recovery wise between staying on testosterone only for 6 months straight - 8 weeks at 500mg followed by 8 weeks at cruise of 150mg rinse repeat type thing & then PCT'ing and coming off for a good 4-5 months

OR

Running a 12 week cycle coming off PCT'ing , being completely off for 2 months just to jump back on for another 12 weeks. I donate blood, do my cardio & keep on top of my diet etc both scenarios would include HCG @ 500iu per week whilst on.

Basically i would rather stay on for 6 months straight than having to go through PCT just to jump back on 2 months later but my main concern is recovery of HPTA/Fertility as i want kids etc in future, would there be much more damage doing option one?

FYI i have done option 2 before and recovered well but not getting any younger lol.


----------



## Alibab2001

@El Chapo what d you think are the main causes of PIP? I cannot seem to run Test P without getting awful PIP. Test E/C are ok. I am wanting to run a basic test P and superdrol cycle but dont want the PIP issues

thanks in advance


----------



## delbo

How to combat loss of appetite on tren?


----------



## Devil

@ElChapo last question in relation to supplements (as we know its a huggge topic and what and how actually works, can be talked about for decades, and you could arguable make a case for all).

But... I am surprised you do not recommend Garlic as one of your essential supplements? as far as it goes outside the main Vits, it seems to have a lot of literature backing its usefulness, esp in relation to BP and cholesterol?


----------



## 90537

@ElChapo Does CBD oil have any interactions with the endocrine system or our metabolism buddy?

Been on it for 4 weeks now for anxiety and depression and it's working very well but worried about drug interactions.

Thanks

Danny.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> Thanks mate, ended up getting these which seem good value + top reviews.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XSJFTXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 Those look great, good choice


----------



## ElChapo

vlb said:


> Apologise bro I didn't realise there were different units for USA levels and UK levels.
> 
> Which just goes to reinforce why your knowledge is so beneficial to us
> 
> Thanks for the education.


 No problem brother, it was a good question regardless.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I read you talk about stoicism as a philosophy for dealing with adversity. I had read about it before but lately have been getting more into it.
> 
> Do you have some good forums/links/books you can recommend?


 http://becomingeden.com/summary-of-a-guide-to-the-good-life/

That's the cliff notes/101^

There's a misconception that stoicism means being very serious all the time or not having emotions. It's the opposite, it's more about going with the flow and not letting things bother you that are out of your control and focusing all your strength/energy into things you can actually affect. Appreciating what you have but working towards greater goals and mastery of what you are passionate about, etc. It's very awesome and i have seemed to be following it without knowing about it all my life more or less, until i learned what it was called.

"A Guide to the Good Life" is the book i recommend but that link up there summarizes the entire book in bullet points, so you could just read through that.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> http://becomingeden.com/summary-of-a-guide-to-the-good-life/
> 
> That's the cliff notes/101^
> 
> There's a misconception that stoicism means being very serious all the time or not having emotions. It's the opposite, it's more about going with the flow and not letting things bother you that are out of your control and focusing all your strength/energy into things you can actually affect. Appreciating what you have but working towards greater goals and mastery of what you are passionate about, etc. It's very awesome and i have seemed to be following it without knowing about it all my life more or less, until i learned what it was called.
> 
> "A Guide to the Good Life" is the book i recommend but that link up there summarizes the entire book in bullet points, so you could just read through that.


 I just bought the book.read a couple last year by mark Manson,"the subtle art of not giving a fcuk " and just started the follow up.

Excellent reada for those wanting to get rid of anxiety or worry,and see things differently without becoming ignorant to the environment you are in and the people around you. Slightly off topic, apologies.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> http://becomingeden.com/summary-of-a-guide-to-the-good-life/
> 
> That's the cliff notes/101^
> 
> There's a misconception that stoicism means being very serious all the time or not having emotions. It's the opposite, it's more about going with the flow and not letting things bother you that are out of your control and focusing all your strength/energy into things you can actually affect. Appreciating what you have but working towards greater goals and mastery of what you are passionate about, etc. It's very awesome and i have seemed to be following it without knowing about it all my life more or less, until i learned what it was called.
> 
> "A Guide to the Good Life" is the book i recommend but that link up there summarizes the entire book in bullet points, so you could just read through that.


 Thanks a lot!


----------



## 64rl0

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo need a bit of an advise on HCG.
> 
> I've previously done 2 cycles, one test only and one test and deca.
> 
> PCT has always been nolva and clomid for 5 weeks.
> 
> Always done full blood work before starting each cycle and values were absolutely fine.
> 
> Anyways I'm now considering to add HCG at the end of my current cycle as I was thinking to extend the current cycle form 16 to 20 weeks.
> 
> I read that HCG would help a lot in recovering.
> 
> My question is, what protocol/dosage would you advise for HCG if I was going to start on the day of the last jab?
> 
> Thanks for the help


 Hi @ElChapo

A couple of weeks ago I posted the above message, as advised I started jabbing HCG intramuscular on the same day I jab my test and deca cycle twice a week for a total of 1000iu per week. (2 jabs of 500iu)

Since I started HCG I've done 3 jabs and my erection is now completely gone. I struggle to have an erection and when it happens it will last for only 4/5 minutes.

Before I started HCG I was constantly having erections during the whole day and had the ability to have sex 3/4 times a day every day. It was absolutely unbelievable.

Something must have happened with HCG, as I said in my original post, this is my very first time using HCG as I've never taken it before.

I have already ordered a blood work for test level and E2 level, however I'm confident that my test vial is good.

I want to stop HCG as of today and see it the erection comes back to normal.

Can I have your advice on this? Could it be caused by HCG?

Nothing else has changed in my cycle, all stayed the same with the addition of the HCG.

I'm currently taking:

Test 400mg pw

Deca 400mg pw

Nova 20mg ED

Aromasin 20mg E3D

HCG 1000iu pw


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I just bought the book.read a couple last year by mark Manson,"the subtle art of not giving a fcuk " and just started the follow up.
> 
> Excellent reada for those wanting to get rid of anxiety or worry,and see things differently without becoming ignorant to the environment you are in and the people around you. Slightly off topic, apologies.


 Exactly, it pretty much is the art of not giving a s**t about things that don't really matter. So your focus is on what matters and things don't bother you as easily.

No worries, it's a great question and topic.


----------



## ElChapo

sos2008 said:


> Hi @ElChapo from a medical perspective and your own opinion what would be the difference recovery wise between staying on testosterone only for 6 months straight - 8 weeks at 500mg followed by 8 weeks at cruise of 150mg rinse repeat type thing & then PCT'ing and coming off for a good 4-5 months
> 
> OR
> 
> Running a 12 week cycle coming off PCT'ing , being completely off for 2 months just to jump back on for another 12 weeks. I donate blood, do my cardio & keep on top of my diet etc both scenarios would include HCG @ 500iu per week whilst on.
> 
> Basically i would rather stay on for 6 months straight than having to go through PCT just to jump back on 2 months later but my main concern is recovery of HPTA/Fertility as i want kids etc in future, would there be much more damage doing option one?
> 
> FYI i have done option 2 before and recovered well but not getting any younger lol.


 Option # 2 is ideal for recovery. Make sure to get baseline labs prior to cycle to gauge recovery/shutdown.

Don't test testosterone until at least 6-8 weeks after PCT to get accurate levels. Clomid has a long half life.

Make sure to run HCG at all times during cycle to optimize recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> @El Chapo what d you think are the main causes of PIP? I cannot seem to run Test P without getting awful PIP. Test E/C are ok. I am wanting to run a basic test P and superdrol cycle but dont want the PIP issues
> 
> thanks in advance


 Test P will PIP for two main reasons.

1. subq leaking. It stings if it gets into your fat layer. If you inject SQ you are more likely to get PIP, especially with propionate. Adipose layer has more nerves and reacts to oils badly in certain people.

2. Over concentrated or bad recipe. The right test P recipe will hold a pipless 100-150 mg. Testosterone propionate raw powder has a very high melting point compared to testosterone enanthate, so it is hard to keep in solution. When it crashes in your muscle/fat, those crystals cause a ton of pain/inflammation.

Your options are :

1. Make sure it's going Intramuscular. Use a long enough needle and hold for 30 seconds at least so it doesn't leak out.

2. Dilute the test prop with sterile USP grade oil or ethyl oleate. You can order these online from lab companies, amazon/ebay.

Other causes of PIP are dirty oil, too much shaking with injection. The most common are poor recipe ( too much raw powder/not enough solvent/too much solvent) or subq leaking which causes pain in a lot people.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> How to combat loss of appetite on tren?


 Willpower or ghrelin mimetic like the HGH secreting peptides/compounds like MK677, GHRPs like GHRP-6.

Foods high in calories but low in filling factor like breakfast cereals, pancakes, breads with jelly, peanut butter, whole milk, etc. You gotta get creative with your diet and sometimes the eating is harder than the training. It's part of the game. That is one reason some guys keep tren around 200-300 mg max. You get the tren look and increase anabolism without as many crazy sides.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> @ElChapo last question in relation to supplements (as we know its a huggge topic and what and how actually works, can be talked about for decades, and you could arguable make a case for all).
> 
> But... I am surprised you do not recommend Garlic as one of your essential supplements? as far as it goes outside the main Vits, it seems to have a lot of literature backing its usefulness, esp in relation to BP and cholesterol?


 Garlic is great and goes into a lot of my food. I think of it more as a food/supplement. It is good and has many health benefits as well as preventing sickness.

Like you said, i could go on for days about different foods/supplements and benefits, i like to keep things short and simple.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @ElChapo Does CBD oil have any interactions with the endocrine system or our metabolism buddy?
> 
> Been on it for 4 weeks now for anxiety and depression and it's working very well but worried about drug interactions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Danny.


 At the moment it seems like a significant fad and not a lot of data supporting it being that great. I don't have personal experience with it though, so it could be great, i don't know. There is a lot of moneyed interests pushing it hard from every direction though, that is obvious to see.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30618031 , there may or may not be some effect. I know CBD is not as potent in certain aspect as marijuana, but you would have to do blood work on your testosterone/estradiol and thyroid on CBD to see.


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I posted the above message, as advised I started jabbing HCG intramuscular on the same day I jab my test and deca cycle twice a week for a total of 1000iu per week. (2 jabs of 500iu)
> 
> Since I started HCG I've done 3 jabs and my erection is now completely gone. I struggle to have an erection and when it happens it will last for only 4/5 minutes.
> 
> Before I started HCG I was constantly having erections during the whole day and had the ability to have sex 3/4 times a day every day. It was absolutely unbelievable.
> 
> Something must have happened with HCG, as I said in my original post, this is my very first time using HCG as I've never taken it before.
> 
> I have already ordered a blood work for test level and E2 level, however I'm confident that my test vial is good.
> 
> I want to stop HCG as of today and see it the erection comes back to normal.
> 
> Can I have your advice on this? Could it be caused by HCG?
> 
> Nothing else has changed in my cycle, all stayed the same with the addition of the HCG.
> 
> I'm currently taking:
> 
> Test 400mg pw
> 
> Deca 400mg pw
> 
> Nova 20mg ED
> 
> Aromasin 20mg E3D
> 
> HCG 1000iu pw


 Most likely the DECA. Some guys do have side effects from HCG like anxiety/decreased libido though. Have you ever ran DECA in the past without HCG at this dosage? If not, then i would suspect DECA over HCG.

Have you ran DECA in the past? Nolvadex can also affect libido/erections negatively as well as low E2 from aromasin. Those are more likely to cause an issue than HCG, but HCG can have negative sides too in some people/although some get an erection/libido boost from it too.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo is superdrol known for giving red faces like say anadrol? My face is red like a beetroot when in the gym.

never used this lab before so got me slighly worried it might be another compound not SD


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo is superdrol known for giving red faces like say anadrol? My face is red like a beetroot when in the gym.
> 
> never used this lab before so got me slighly worried it might be another compound not SD


 In my experience no, but check your blood pressure. It may be elevated.


----------



## delbo

If you were at 15% after a bulk and had 4 weeks to lose as much fat as possible what stack would you run @ghost.recon @ElChapo

And what percent roughly (with diet cardio etc all on point) could you guys reach after this 4 week cut?


----------



## TALBOTL

Hi EC

I was doing some bedtime reading last night with regards to enzymes and cytochromes.

Something caught my eye and I thought, I know just the person to clarify!

CYP1A2 is of course mainly known for caffeine metabolism, I carry this strongly from both sides and I believe from researching this thread in the very early days that you are the same - we're lucky apparently because we get to have coffee before bed and drink Monsters etc. like they are water if we so wish! on a serious note though I have also read all the studies with regards to a number of associated benefits to carrying it and it certainly seems to be favourable to have it, than not have it.

Anyway to the query - I notice that CYP1A2 is also involved in the metabolism of steroids, therefore would carrying be a benefit or hinderance over somebody that doesn't? I appreciate of course that there are many other genetic responses and important external factors that will lead to somebody getting better results such as diet, rest, training etc. but I was just interested to know if it has a positive or negative impact on AAS use to any degree?

Intrigued to hear your thoughts brother!

LT


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> If you were at 15% after a bulk and had 4 weeks to lose as much fat as possible what stack would you run @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> And what percent roughly (with diet cardio etc all on point) could you guys reach after this 4 week cut?


 Easy, 40% caloric deficit+ 30-45 minutes of walking daily+lift weights to preserve muscle / AAS is optional but preferred. If not injecting, 50 mg winstrol for the 4 weeks should cause minimal long term shut down while preserving muscle.

DNP 200 mg+Ephedrine 20 mg+Caffeine 200 mg.

If you can lose 1.5-2 lbs of fat per week, you might get to 9-11% depending on how consistent you are and DNP.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> If you were at 15% after a bulk and had 4 weeks to lose as much fat as possible what stack would you run @ghost.recon @ElChapo
> 
> And what percent roughly (with diet cardio etc all on point) could you guys reach after this 4 week cut?


 Easy, 40% caloric deficit+ 30-45 minutes of walking daily+lift weights to preserve muscle / AAS is optional but preferred. If not injecting, 50 mg winstrol for the 4 weeks should cause minimal long term shut down while preserving muscle.

DNP 200 mg+Ephedrine 20 mg+Caffeine 200 mg.

If you can lose 1.5-2 lbs of fat per week, you might get to 9-11% depending on how consistent you are and DNP.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Hi EC
> 
> I was doing some bedtime reading last night with regards to enzymes and cytochromes.
> 
> Something caught my eye and I thought, I know just the person to clarify!
> 
> CYP1A2 is of course mainly known for caffeine metabolism, I carry this strongly from both sides and I believe from researching this thread in the very early days that you are the same - we're lucky apparently because we get to have coffee before bed and drink Monsters etc. like they are water if we so wish! on a serious note though I have also read all the studies with regards to a number of associated benefits to carrying it and it certainly seems to be favourable to have it, than not have it.
> 
> Anyway to the query - I notice that CYP1A2 is also involved in the metabolism of steroids, therefore would carrying be a benefit or hinderance over somebody that doesn't? I appreciate of course that there are many other genetic responses and important external factors that will lead to somebody getting better results such as diet, rest, training etc. but I was just interested to know if it has a positive or negative impact on AAS use to any degree?
> 
> Intrigued to hear your thoughts brother!
> 
> LT


 https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs762551 ( more info about the enzyme here )

"A study of healthy premenopausal non-hormone using women concluded that drinkers of 3 or more cups of coffee per day tended to have lower breast volume (smaller breasts), but only if they had at least one rs762551(C) allele (p(interaction)=0.02), which was said to be consistent with reports that coffee protects only C-allele carriers against breast cancer.[PMID 18813311]"

There may be an effect on sex hormones like testosterone/estradiol, i wouldn't know. Not a lot of data but you could do some digging through google scholar/pubmed. There are a lot of links with caffeine and breast cancer prevention related to this gene.

In terms of bodybuilding, other genes would have a much more significant effect on results from AAS (IGF/Androgen receptors, ACTN3 proteins, etc).

If it helps or hinders in any way, you would just need more or less AAS. Not a big deal in my opinion.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs762551 ( more info about the enzyme here )
> 
> "A study of healthy premenopausal non-hormone using women concluded that drinkers of 3 or more cups of coffee per day tended to have lower breast volume (smaller breasts), but only if they had at least one rs762551(C) allele (p(interaction)=0.02), which was said to be consistent with reports that coffee protects only C-allele carriers against breast cancer.[PMID 18813311]"
> 
> There may be an effect on sex hormones like testosterone/estradiol, i wouldn't know. Not a lot of data but you could do some digging through google scholar/pubmed. There are a lot of links with caffeine and breast cancer prevention related to this gene.
> 
> In terms of bodybuilding, other genes would have a much more significant effect on results from AAS (IGF/Androgen receptors, ACTN3 proteins, etc).
> 
> If it helps or hinders in any way, you would just need more or less AAS. Not a big deal in my opinion.


 Thanks EC, I'll check the link - as you many more genes would have a significant effect I'd guess, luckily for me I carry RR on the ACTN3 also but don't know about my androgen receptors of IGF response unfortunately.

I have seen more about estradiol as you say, not much on testosterone though which is why I was curious.

Ultimately I guess all the research in the world can be done, but anecdotal evidence is the only way to get the answers you want - with my first cycle penned in for the end of month hopefully I'll find out soon enough.

Thanks again, have a good weekend!

LT


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Thanks EC, I'll check the link - as you many more genes would have a significant effect I'd guess, luckily for me I carry RR on the ACTN3 also but don't know about my androgen receptors of IGF response unfortunately.
> 
> I have seen more about estradiol as you say, not much on testosterone though which is why I was curious.
> 
> Ultimately I guess all the research in the world can be done, but anecdotal evidence is the only way to get the answers you want - with my first cycle penned in for the end of month hopefully I'll find out soon enough.
> 
> Thanks again, have a good weekend!
> 
> LT


 Anytime brother, you too


----------



## 64rl0

ElChapo said:


> Most likely the DECA. Some guys do have side effects from HCG like anxiety/decreased libido though. Have you ever ran DECA in the past without HCG at this dosage? If not, then i would suspect DECA over HCG.
> 
> Have you ran DECA in the past? Nolvadex can also affect libido/erections negatively as well as low E2 from aromasin. Those are more likely to cause an issue than HCG, but HCG can have negative sides too in some people/although some get an erection/libido boost from it too.


 Hi @ElChapo

ive run deca twice before at the same dosage and never used hcg.

as I was saying I started hcg a couple of weeks ago when I was 7 weeks in. All was absolutely perfect for the first 7 weeks.

could hcg have raised a lot my E2? And therefore I now need to increase aromasin? I'll have my blood work back early next week so I'll judge with that.


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> Easy, 40% caloric deficit+ 30-45 minutes of walking daily+lift weights to preserve muscle / AAS is optional but preferred. If not injecting, 50 mg winstrol for the 4 weeks should cause minimal long term shut down while preserving muscle.
> 
> DNP 200 mg+Ephedrine 20 mg+Caffeine 200 mg.
> 
> If you can lose 1.5-2 lbs of fat per week, you might get to 9-11% depending on how consistent you are and DNP.


 Was expecting a lot higher dosage of dnp than that and also was expecting clen, yohimbine etc to be thrown into the mix. But that's good to know


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo using Nebivolol 5-10mg on cycle if blood pressure gets too high , good idea or not ?

Heard some people doing that , and it seems to have a lot of good things for heart/health.
The only thing that I don't like , is +70% prolactin increase.

What do you think about it ?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Was expecting a lot higher dosage of dnp than that and also was expecting clen, yohimbine etc to be thrown into the mix. But that's good to know


 If you want a heart attack, yeah.

You could bump DNP to 400 mg, but side effects increase. 200 mg is a sweet spot. Let the deficit+cardio do the job. The DNP and EC stack are just a bonus.

You can do 20 mg of yohimbine in place of EC stack or make an ECY stack. This should only be done with people with experience with all of these compounds and high tolerance for stimulants. If you have anxiety disorder or heart conditions, then RIP.


----------



## ElChapo

64rl0 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> ive run deca twice before at the same dosage and never used hcg.
> 
> as I was saying I started hcg a couple of weeks ago when I was 7 weeks in. All was absolutely perfect for the first 7 weeks.
> 
> could hcg have raised a lot my E2? And therefore I now need to increase aromasin? I'll have my blood work back early next week so I'll judge with that.


 HCG may cause a slight increase in E2 but not enough to cause your issues.

Some people get bad sides from HCG, it could also be your DECA is stronger this time around. Some UGLs overdose their oils


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo using Nebivolol 5-10mg on cycle if blood pressure gets too high , good idea or not ?
> 
> Heard some people doing that , and it seems to have a lot of good things for heart/health.
> The only thing that I don't like , is +70% prolactin increase.
> 
> What do you think about it ?


 If it gets to 160/100 mmhg; Yes.

If it's under that on cycle, i wouldn't worry.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> If it gets to 160/100 mmhg; Yes.
> 
> If it's under that on cycle, i wouldn't worry.


 My blood pressure is at 11.5/6 atm which is perfect I think.

I'm on 200-250mg test / week since a long time now , doing bloods this week to check my RBC/lipids and some other things.

but I was thinking of taking small dose of Tbol , but as soon as I take it my BP gets really high (got to 16/10 on 50mg only) and I get dizzy , bad vision and feeling anxious.

So i was thinking of Nebivolol , the prolactin increase is real ?


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

Hi mate, I'm Starting back after a 8 week trt dose /cruise after getting bloods etc (you commented they were all good end of Nov but I've not drank and kept things clean since then) also after having a previous echo I got results from an mri saying I've athletes heart but no deformaties and nothing to be concerned about at all.

Anyway, test and winny agree with me so was gonna go 600test and 50-100mg winny but is the extra winny from 50-100mg necessary?

I could increase the test or add npp to the mix, ie 600 test, 400npp, 50mg winny. Or

900 test 50mg winny etc.

(My estrogen levels and test levels are attached from when I was previously on 600mg test so I'll add 12.5mg aromsin mom and Thu to reduce slightly (although I did feel great when I was on that dose and not running an ai)

Running support max with tudca and nac in it, not drinking booze for the twelve weeks and currently leaned down over Xmas (I do this most years) to around 12% 95kg 6ft 3. Aged 39

My goal is to bulk as much as possible until perhaps may, to then give me enough time June , July Aug to lean up if need be for my wedding Sept 18th in Vegas.

Cheers in advance

(Ps leaving gh until maybe later in the year unless 3-4iu would make a difference. )


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> My blood pressure is at 11.5/6 atm which is perfect I think.
> 
> I'm on 200-250mg test / week since a long time now , doing bloods this week to check my RBC/lipids and some other things.
> 
> but I was thinking of taking small dose of Tbol , but as soon as I take it my BP gets really high (got to 16/10 on 50mg only) and I get dizzy , bad vision and feeling anxious.
> 
> So i was thinking of Nebivolol , the prolactin increase is real ?


 Sure, take a tiny dose. Just get under 160/100 mmhg.

I don't think prolactin will be an issue for you. Take the smallest dose you need.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hi mate, I'm Starting back after a 8 week trt dose /cruise after getting bloods etc (you commented they were all good end of Nov but I've not drank and kept things clean since then) also after having a previous echo I got results from an mri saying I've athletes heart but no deformaties and nothing to be concerned about at all.
> 
> Anyway, test and winny agree with me so was gonna go 600test and 50-100mg winny but is the extra winny from 50-100mg necessary?
> 
> I could increase the test or add npp to the mix, ie 600 test, 400npp, 50mg winny. Or
> 
> 900 test 50mg winny etc.
> 
> (My estrogen levels and test levels are attached from when I was previously on 600mg test so I'll add 12.5mg aromsin mom and Thu to reduce slightly (although I did feel great when I was on that dose and not running an ai)
> 
> Running support max with tudca and nac in it, not drinking booze for the twelve weeks and currently leaned down over Xmas (I do this most years) to around 12% 95kg 6ft 3. Aged 39
> 
> My goal is to bulk as much as possible until perhaps may, to then give me enough time June , July Aug to lean up if need be for my wedding Sept 18th in Vegas.
> 
> Cheers in advance
> 
> (Ps leaving gh until maybe later in the year unless 3-4iu would make a difference. )
> 
> View attachment 178831


 Blood work won't show the damage from AAS at all, which is heart structure changes, calcification/stiffening arteries, liver scarring, etc.

Glad you got the MRI done. Echocardiogram and EKG are the best, as well as Calcium scoring CT scan.

I would do 600+400 Test/NPP+50 mg winstrol+4 IU HGH. That would be a great stack. 500 calorie surplus+progressive overload on all your lifts with perfect form. You will have amazing results.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Blood work won't show the damage from AAS at all, which is heart structure changes, calcification/stiffening arteries, liver scarring, etc.
> 
> *Glad you got the MRI done. Echocardiogram and EKG are the best, as well as Calcium scoring CT scan.*
> 
> I would do 600+400 Test/NPP+50 mg winstrol+4 IU HGH. That would be a great stack. 500 calorie surplus+progressive overload on all your lifts with perfect form. You will have amazing results.


 Yeah I was happy to have it offered, as my only symptoms were six years ago when I had an irregular heart beat and apart from elevated BP on cycle I feel fine (I know that feeling fine and being fine can been two completely different things though lol)

Thanks for the feedback, lab I'm using is spot on as far as tests go so I'm hoping the next 12 weeks or so should be productive.

What was rhe website/online cakc that you suggested was good for working out tdee etc? I run a dog walking company so walk 35 miles per week according to my GPS on the phone, although only 12 miles of that is at "at healthy pace" of 6kph or more but I'll still keep my sscv in 3x a week for a half hour on the bike or treadmill as it works wonders for my appetite. Cheers again


----------



## 90537

@ElChapo Hello sir,

I am due to have my very first shot of nebido on Wednesday afternoon at 1000mg followed by another 1000mg six weeks later and then 1000mg every 12 weeks.

What sort of levels should I be hoping for once the treatment is well underway? My level was 7.9 on the last blood test hence why the endo has began treatment.

I can't find much online showing what average levels may be once the first few injections have took place throughout the weeks.

Thank you friend

Danny.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

I hope you can help, or perhaps point me in the right direction.

My brother has just been diagnosed with myotonic dystrophy. Presently this manifests as an occasional inability to relax a contraction (e.g. not being able to let go of a cup sometimes when he puts it down, or not being able to open his jaw once his mouth is closed--it's occasional right now but I figure will get worse over time).

He also displays a lot of MD symptoms, like holding very little muscle mass and up until now, being disinterested in any form of strenuous activity, which in some cases can become the cause of extreme weakness to the point where people become immobile and at best antisocial or at worst, die. He's also going for some tests with a cardiologist, as most people at some point need a pacemaker fitted. (He's 32). Apparently, it's not uncommon for people with MD to need one aged 20+.

My immediate thoughts are he needs to get into a gym and sort his diet (which is dreadful--he's a restaurant manager and while very skinny, his diet is crap) out so he can build and hold onto as muscle as he can, while he still can, to add quality of life later down the line.

*1. Do you see any issue with this (I doubt it, but worth asking)?*

*2. Assuming no issues with 1, what do you think to the prospect of him using e.g. "sports TRT" dose test and or GH to accelerate this process of tissue accretion and retention? Or any other suggestions? I am happy to fund whatever he needs for as long as he needs it.*

No one I have spoken to in the medical community was prepared to have an opinion on 1, let alone 2, hence turning to you.

No worries at all if you feel uncomfortable advising either way, but I thought it was worth a shot.

Thank you, as always.


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> If you want a heart attack, yeah.
> 
> You could bump DNP to 400 mg, but side effects increase. 200 mg is a sweet spot. Let the deficit+cardio do the job. The DNP and EC stack are just a bonus.
> 
> You can do 20 mg of yohimbine in place of EC stack or make an ECY stack. This should only be done with people with experience with all of these compounds and high tolerance for stimulants. If you have anxiety disorder or heart conditions, then RIP.


 Could clen be used in place of the ephedrine? And if so at what dose?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Yeah I was happy to have it offered, as my only symptoms were six years ago when I had an irregular heart beat and apart from elevated BP on cycle I feel fine (I know that feeling fine and being fine can been two completely different things though lol)
> 
> Thanks for the feedback, lab I'm using is spot on as far as tests go so I'm hoping the next 12 weeks or so should be productive.
> 
> What was rhe website/online cakc that you suggested was good for working out tdee etc? I run a dog walking company so walk 35 miles per week according to my GPS on the phone, although only 12 miles of that is at "at healthy pace" of 6kph or more but I'll still keep my sscv in 3x a week for a half hour on the bike or treadmill as it works wonders for my appetite. Cheers again


 https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

I recommend Katch-McArdle formula


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @ElChapo Hello sir,
> 
> I am due to have my very first shot of nebido on Wednesday afternoon at 1000mg followed by another 1000mg six weeks later and then 1000mg every 12 weeks.
> 
> What sort of levels should I be hoping for once the treatment is well underway? My level was 7.9 on the last blood test hence why the endo has began treatment.
> 
> I can't find much online showing what average levels may be once the first few injections have took place throughout the weeks.
> 
> Thank you friend
> 
> Danny.


 Play around with this:

Steroidcalc.com

It will show you

Problem with every 12 weeks is that after week 8, your levels might be very low for the last month.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I hope you can help, or perhaps point me in the right direction.
> 
> My brother has just been diagnosed with myotonic dystrophy. Presently this manifests as an occasional inability to relax a contraction (e.g. not being able to let go of a cup sometimes when he puts it down, or not being able to open his jaw once his mouth is closed--it's occasional right now but I figure will get worse over time).
> 
> He also displays a lot of MD symptoms, like holding very little muscle mass and up until now, being disinterested in any form of strenuous activity, which in some cases can become the cause of extreme weakness to the point where people become immobile and at best antisocial or at worst, die. He's also going for some tests with a cardiologist, as most people at some point need a pacemaker fitted. (He's 32). Apparently, it's not uncommon for people with MD to need one aged 20+.
> 
> My immediate thoughts are he needs to get into a gym and sort his diet (which is dreadful--he's a restaurant manager and while very skinny, his diet is crap) out so he can build and hold onto as muscle as he can, while he still can, to add quality of life later down the line.
> 
> *1. Do you see any issue with this (I doubt it, but worth asking)?*
> 
> *2. Assuming no issues with 1, what do you think to the prospect of him using e.g. "sports TRT" dose test and or GH to accelerate this process of tissue accretion and retention? Or any other suggestions? I am happy to fund whatever he needs for as long as he needs it.*
> 
> No one I have spoken to in the medical community was prepared to have an opinion on 1, let alone 2, hence turning to you.
> 
> No worries at all if you feel uncomfortable advising either way, but I thought it was worth a shot.
> 
> Thank you, as always.


 I would get his hormones tested. Testosterone/estradiol, IGF-1 and HGH, thyroid hormones Free T4/Free T3.

I've seen some guys with estradiol deficiency which causes weird symptoms/being skinny.

1 and 2 make perfect sense. I would get lab work to investigate his hormones and see if any deficiencies can be addressed which will improve quality of life, motivation, appetite, etc.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17964887-exercise-therapy-and-other-types-of-physical-therapy-for-patients-with-neuromuscular-diseases-a-systematic-review/

"Combined strengthening and aerobic training at moderate intensity was deemed safe for individuals with neuromuscular diseases.[23] The combination was found to increase muscle strength.[24] Specifically, aerobic exercise via stationary bicycle with an ergometer was found to be safe and effective in improving fitness in people with DM1.[25] The strength training or aerobic exercise may promote muscle and cardiorespiratory function, while preventing further disuse atrophy.[26]"

The average clinician does not care about your quality of life or your families. Their priority is keeping you alive and protecting their medical license. Keeping you alive, even on a ventilator and feeding through a tube is good enough for them.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Could clen be used in place of the ephedrine? And if so at what dose?


 Ephedrine is better to combo with DNP thanks to appetite suppression and increase in energy and strength, so it fights off most of the DNP side effects.

You can use clen instead at 80-120 mcg


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo any Benefit in Adding 150mg npp per week on top of 150mg test prop trt for a long term lean bulk?


----------



## PSevens2017

@ElChapo @ghost.recon not an AAS question but a medical condition. Do either of you know of any type of supplements that can reduce the effects of fibromyalgia?

Working with a client who sadly has some shitty genes and suffers with lots of problems. Fibromyalgia being the worst.

She is hoping to get another lidocaine IV from the pain team as she has had one and it gave her 7 weeks of relief. Still in slight pain but nothing compared to what it's like without the lidocaine.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i remember reading that GH peaks 4 hours post injection, and that this is also the ideal time to workout, post injection, for fat loss. Any truth to this?

Also, anecdotally people report less water retention from pharma grade GH when comparing to generics. Any idea why? Assuming it's not bullshit


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> I would get his hormones tested. Testosterone/estradiol, IGF-1 and HGH, thyroid hormones Free T4/Free T3.
> 
> I've seen some guys with estradiol deficiency which causes weird symptoms/being skinny.
> 
> 1 and 2 make perfect sense. I would get lab work to investigate his hormones and see if any deficiencies can be addressed which will improve quality of life, motivation, appetite, etc.
> 
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17964887-exercise-therapy-and-other-types-of-physical-therapy-for-patients-with-neuromuscular-diseases-a-systematic-review/
> 
> "Combined strengthening and aerobic training at moderate intensity was deemed safe for individuals with neuromuscular diseases.[23] The combination was found to increase muscle strength.[24] Specifically, aerobic exercise via stationary bicycle with an ergometer was found to be safe and effective in improving fitness in people with DM1.[25] The strength training or aerobic exercise may promote muscle and cardiorespiratory function, while preventing further disuse atrophy.[26]"
> 
> The average clinician does not care about your quality of life or your families. Their priority is keeping you alive and protecting their medical license. Keeping you alive, even on a ventilator and feeding through a tube is good enough for them.


 Thank you so much.

I suspect his test is low for myriad reasons, but will heed your advice.


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Random thing I've been reading about lately: b6 and b12 and cancer.

Agonists?


----------



## shay1490

I'm currently running 600 test e a week

one thing I've noticed is how dramatically 1mg adex raises my libido and erections.

i take it once a week, sometimes every other week.

What could be the reason ?


----------



## Baka

shay1490 said:


> I'm currently running 600 test e a week
> 
> one thing I've noticed is how dramatically 1mg adex raises my libido and erections.
> 
> i take it once a week, sometimes every other week.
> 
> What could be the reason ?


 because without AI you have too much E2?

You should learn more before taking AAS , or it may cause you some problems quickly.


----------



## shay1490

Baka said:


> because without AI you have too much E2?
> 
> You should learn more before taking AAS , or it may cause you some problems quickly.


 I'm not new to AAS mate, been taking gear for 5 years. I got gyno even on adex

im saying because most people complain that it kills their libido when it does the opposite for me


----------



## vlb

ElChapo said:


> No problem brother, it was a good question regardless.


 got the results of the test back today.

went from baseline 34.3 nmol/L to 53.4 nmol/L.

So at least now i know my source is good.

Thanks bro


----------



## Baka

shay1490 said:


> I'm not new to AAS mate, been taking gear for 5 years. I got gyno even on adex
> 
> im saying because most people complain that it kills their libido when it does the opposite for me


 too low or too high E2 can/will kill your libido.

Taking adex or an other AI will lower your E2 , it doesn't kill your libido on its own , it will if your E2 gets too low with an AI or if you don't use any and your E2 gets too high.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Random thing I've been reading about lately: b6 and b12 and cancer.
> 
> Agonists?


 No


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> I'm currently running 600 test e a week
> 
> one thing I've noticed is how dramatically 1mg adex raises my libido and erections.
> 
> i take it once a week, sometimes every other week.
> 
> What could be the reason ?


 High E2

It kills libido because people take too much. 1 mg is probably your sweet spot on 600 mg.


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> No


 So b12 is ok?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> High E2
> 
> It kills libido because people take too much. 1 mg is probably your sweet spot on 600 mg.


 I'd say for most 12.5mg aromasin is the same for that dose, split twice a week on that dose seems to keep everything working in that respect.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> So b12 is ok?


 It's a natural vitamin, it's water soluble so your body easily excretes excess as you see with the bright yellow piss when you take multivitamins. Of course they are safe.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I'd say for most 12.5mg aromasin is the same for that dose, split twice a week on that dose seems to keep everything working in that respect.


 1 mg adex would be closer to 25 mg aromasin


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> 1 mg adex would be closer to 25 mg aromasin


 Sorry I meant 12.5 twice a week, apologies.


----------



## Devil

2 full body intense training sessions over last 5 weeks only (been studying), probably low protein but calorie surplus diet wise.

Feel like ive lost 2 months of gains, week, fat etc etc. Actual likely-hood of muscle tissue loss? I am roughly 6ft 200lbs maybe 16-18% bf.

And on that notice, I will either be bumping test from 125 to 250 and cutting for a month first priming maself, then lean bulking with a 6 week cycle of SD - or I can lean bulk now for 5-6 weeks with SD off the bat, and then just cut all way into summer.

I was going to go with option 1 so i feel more athletic, and engaged in training after a few consistent weeks back in the gym before SD (and so I don't end up with too much weight gain from this sedentary version of myself) - what route would be your suggested? Hope that makes sense buddy! @ElChapo


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> It's a natural vitamin, it's water soluble so your body easily excretes excess as you see with the bright yellow piss when you take multivitamins. Of course they are safe.


 Thanks mate I'm paranoid to fcuk when it comes to cancer.

I read this and $hit myself:

https://sciencenorway.no/cancer-norway-vitamins/high-levels-of-vitamin-b12-can-increase-lung-cancer-risk/1461614


----------



## TALBOTL

TITO said:


> Thanks mate I'm paranoid to fcuk when it comes to cancer.
> 
> I read this and $hit myself:
> 
> https://sciencenorway.no/cancer-norway-vitamins/high-levels-of-vitamin-b12-can-increase-lung-cancer-risk/1461614


 What a load of rubbish, excess of any vitamin can have some sort of minimal trace to any type of illness or disease - there are the obvious things you can do ie cardio, keeping body fat in range, not excessively eating junk - anything else is pure luck and you can't live your life reading daft studies like that or you'll end up killing yourself with worry.

Ps apologies for jumping in EC


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> 2 full body intense training sessions over last 5 weeks only (been studying), probably low protein but calorie surplus diet wise.
> 
> Feel like ive lost 2 months of gains, week, fat etc etc. Actual likely-hood of muscle tissue loss? I am roughly 6ft 200lbs maybe 16-18% bf.
> 
> And on that notice, I will either be bumping test from 125 to 250 and cutting for a month first priming maself, then lean bulking with a 6 week cycle of SD - or I can lean bulk now for 5-6 weeks with SD off the bat, and then just cut all way into summer.
> 
> I was going to go with option 1 so i feel more athletic, and engaged in training after a few consistent weeks back in the gym before SD (and so I don't end up with too much weight gain from this sedentary version of myself) - what route would be your suggested? Hope that makes sense buddy! @ElChapo


 Are you lifting with the same weights? If you bench 315 lbs for 5 and can still do that, then you haven't lost muscle. If you aren't in the gym as often, you won't looked as pumped.

This is the reason that guys who focus too much on high volume/high rep/isolation deflated like balloons when they stop training, Strength based training is important.

The 2nd question really depends what body fat % you are at right now....


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo any Benefit in Adding 150mg npp per week on top of 150mg test prop trt for a long term as a form of hrt for extra mass?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> The reason is because every study that tests timing, administration site and method, points to SQ/Abdomen/Evening injections leading to much higher AUC and longer half-life than any other method. I used to recommend IM, this gives you a fast and hard spike, but the longer half-life and bigger AUC should provide superior results.
> 
> Don't expect localized fat loss from HGH. HGH is poor for fat loss, caloric deficit+fat burner will serve you much better.
> 
> No, HCG should be used from day 1 of a cycle and 2 weeks past the last injection. It's best to run HCG from cycle start to finish if you want to increase the chances of successful recovery and limit shutdown during the cycle. You could do this even better by adding HMG, but this is cost-prohibitive for most people.
> 
> The clomid+nolva starts right away after your last injection. Clomid/nolva take some time to build up in the blood and take effect.


 I guess I will switch to stomach injections then


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo aside from blood dumping do you know of any effective way of lowering RBC and hematocrit?

I've heard of phytic acid to increase iron chelation which is suppose to lower both

and naringin perhaps by the same moa?...

to your knowledge is there any merit to these non phlebotomy routes of lowering blood viscosity? or any supplemental approach one could take


----------



## dfwfreg

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo aside from blood dumping do you know of any effective way of lowering RBC and hematocrit?
> 
> I've heard of phytic acid to increase iron chelation which is suppose to lower both
> 
> and naringin perhaps by the same moa?...
> 
> to your knowledge is there any merit to these non phlebotomy routes of lowering blood viscosity? or any supplemental approach one could take


 I've found IP6 to be effective, I would like to know if ElChapo have any experience with it


----------



## swole troll

dfwfreg said:


> I've found IP6 to be effective, I would like to know if ElChapo have any experience with it


 This the one I've been predominantly looking at

What kind of difference did it have on your RBC ?


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo aside from blood dumping do you know of any effective way of lowering RBC and hematocrit?
> 
> I've heard of phytic acid to increase iron chelation which is suppose to lower both
> 
> and naringin perhaps by the same moa?...
> 
> to your knowledge is there any merit to these non phlebotomy routes of lowering blood viscosity? or any supplemental approach one could take


 naringin + grapefruit seed extract works for me to keep hematocrit at 49-51% on test , without it I'm at 53-54%.

i also used to take green tea extract with meals to cancel the absorption of iron


----------



## swole troll

Baka said:


> naringin + grapefruit seed extract works for me to keep hematocrit at 49-51% on test , without it I'm at 53-54%.
> 
> i also used to take green tea extract with meals to cancel the absorption of iron


 I thought I'd spoke to you about this before

Thanks for reply

Is there any particular ingredient I should or shouldn't be looking out for in the nutritional info?


----------



## dfwfreg

swole troll said:


> This the one I've been predominantly looking at
> 
> What kind of difference did it have on your RBC ?


 In just 2 months of usage, 2 caps of the Jarrow one so 1 gr of IP6, I've gone from 6 to 5.7 (1012/L), it's still out of range but even when I was natural this was my level.

Even iron is now in range.


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> I thought I'd spoke to you about this before
> 
> Thanks for reply
> 
> Is there any particular ingredient I should or shouldn't be looking out for in the nutritional info?


 no , the dose I take is : 500mg naringin + 250mg grapefruit seed extract , morning and evening.

you may be ok with only 1 dose the morning , but I used TB-500 recently and it always increase my RBC/hematocrits by a lot , so I'm taking double dose to reduce it 'faster'.


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo any Benefit in Adding 150mg npp per week on top of 150mg test prop trt for a long term as a form of hrt for extra mass?


 We don't know the long-term safety of that. 300 mg testosterone would likely be safer or 100 mg of NPP+test P = 200 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Food for thought for my future buddy- Tbol cycle with trt dose test?
> 
> Worth it? Duration?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Danny


 Too broad a question. Need more details on goals, experience level with training/AAS, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo aside from blood dumping do you know of any effective way of lowering RBC and hematocrit?
> 
> I've heard of phytic acid to increase iron chelation which is suppose to lower both
> 
> and naringin perhaps by the same moa?...
> 
> to your knowledge is there any merit to these non phlebotomy routes of lowering blood viscosity? or any supplemental approach one could take


 Unfortunately the erythrocytosis from AAS has a strong genetic component to it. Some guys/girls can blast high dose AAS and maintain normal HCT, others get high HCT even on TRT doses.

The best ways to limit would be increasing injection frequency and keeping Free Testosterone within the therapeutic range. Otherwise for those sensitive or blasting high doses, phlebotomy with high dose iron supplementation is the best bet. I would not want to be over 55% HCT, as the people i've seen develop multiple blood clots were in the 55-60% range.

<53% seems safe long-term and may confer some benefit to endurance. Myself, i get headaches, malaise, shortness of breath when i'm over 52%.

Dietary measures like phytic acid and grapefruit extract/naringin are not supported by the science, although some guys swear by it, but i would not put much stock in it and grapefruit can also affect liver enzymes that metabolize medications/hormones/toxins as well.

Low ferritin/iron can mess you up just as badly as high HCT in terms of quality of life. Low ferritin is linked to impaired mood/increased depression/anxiety and of course fatigue and brain fog/cognitive issues and hair thinning. My recommendation is to keep ferritin at least at 60, but most athletes aim for at least 70-100. I regularly see men under 20 which is insane but usually caused by too much blood donation without iron supplementation.

If donating blood, keep a close eye on ferritin. The literature shows maybe 20-30 ferritin loss per donation which is significant. Iron byglycinate is your best bet as too much ferrous sulfate(regular iron) can cause GI issues like diahrrea, stomach pain, constipation, and even ulcers in some cases. Iron byglycinate is highly bioavailable and very easy on the stomach, add vitamin C for further improvement in absorption.


----------



## ElChapo

dfwfreg said:


> I've found IP6 to be effective, I would like to know if ElChapo have any experience with it


 No, but you don't want to lower iron levels unless your ferritin is over 200. Iron is essential for dopamine and dopamine is essential for libido, well-being/happiness, cognitive function and of course endurance.

You are just addressing one issue and causing another with this stuff.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4253901/

"Iron is required for appropriate behavioral organization. Iron deficiency results in poor brain myelination and impaired monoamine metabolism. Glutamate and GABA homeostasis is modified by changes in brain iron status. Such changes not only produce deficits in memory/learning capacity and motor skills, but also emotional and psychological problems. An accumulating body of evidence indicates that both energy metabolism and neurotransmitter homeostasis influence emotional behavior, and both functions are influenced by brain iron status. Like other neurobehavioral aspects, the influence of iron metabolism on mechanisms of emotional behavior are multifactorial: brain region-specific control of behavior, regulation of neurotransmitters and associated proteins, temporal and regional differences in iron requirements, oxidative stress responses to excess iron, sex differences in metabolism, and interactions between iron and other metals."


----------



## Vinny

@ElChapo

What's your thoughts on optimal drug use regarding fat loss, with regards to amount of body fat?

I'm been using DNP at 200mg and 400mg, and I've gone from 20-22% body fat down to roughly 12% bodyfat, hard to tell with the water I'm holding on the 200mg DNP.

Wondering if I should stay on the DNP and get down to about 9% before bulking on Test/Deca/EQ, or to use Clen instead?

Been using 15mg Yohinbine pre workout last couple of workouts, and on 210mg Test E a week. Eating roughly 1800kcals, 180g protein, 140 gcarbs, 30g fats.


----------



## ElChapo

ElChapo said:


> Unfortunately the erythrocytosis from AAS has a strong genetic component to it. Some guys/girls can blast high dose AAS and maintain normal HCT, others get high HCT even on TRT doses.
> 
> The best ways to limit would be increasing injection frequency and keeping Free Testosterone within the therapeutic range. Otherwise for those sensitive or blasting high doses, phlebotomy with high dose iron supplementation is the best bet. I would not want to be over 55% HCT, as the people i've seen develop multiple blood clots were in the 55-60% range.
> 
> <53% seems safe long-term and may confer some benefit to endurance. Myself, i get headaches, malaise, shortness of breath when i'm over 52%.
> 
> Dietary measures like phytic acid and grapefruit extract/naringin are not supported by the science, although some guys swear by it, but i would not put much stock in it and grapefruit can also affect liver enzymes that metabolize medications/hormones/toxins as well.
> 
> Low ferritin/iron can mess you up just as badly as high HCT in terms of quality of life. Low ferritin is linked to impaired mood/increased depression/anxiety and of course fatigue and brain fog/cognitive issues and hair thinning. My recommendation is to keep ferritin at least at 60, but most athletes aim for at least 70-100. I regularly see men under 20 which is insane but usually caused by too much blood donation without iron supplementation.
> 
> If donating blood, keep a close eye on ferritin. The literature shows maybe 20-30 ferritin loss per donation which is significant. Iron byglycinate is your best bet as too much ferrous sulfate(regular iron) can cause GI issues like diahrrea, stomach pain, constipation, and even ulcers in some cases. Iron byglycinate is highly bioavailable and very easy on the stomach, add vitamin C for further improvement in absorption.


 @swole troll

To add to this,

Many cases are caused by undiagnosed sleep apnea. So difficult to treat cases need a sleep study and possible CPAP/BIPAP machine. Body compensates for apnea induced hypoxia by upregulating erythrocyotosis (red blood cell production) to carry oxygen, this gets hyper charged on TRT and AAS.

Keeping the Free T in the low-medium therapeutic range and increasing injection frequency to x 3-7 days per week can also help in TRT cases. 20-30 ng/mL (American Units) 0.7-1 nmol/L (UK units)


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's your thoughts on optimal drug use regarding fat loss, with regards to amount of body fat?
> 
> I'm been using DNP at 200mg and 400mg, and I've gone from 20-22% body fat down to roughly 12% bodyfat, hard to tell with the water I'm holding on the 200mg DNP.
> 
> Wondering if I should stay on the DNP and get down to about 9% before bulking on Test/Deca/EQ, or to use Clen instead?
> 
> Been using 15mg Yohinbine pre workout last couple of workouts, and on 210mg Test E a week. Eating roughly 1800kcals, 180g protein, 140 gcarbs, 30g fats.


 Depends on the person/goals/etc. Many factors and effective stacks.

DNP+EC stack is the best because DNP increases fat loss while EC stack increases energy/lower cravings, a strong synergy between them to cover DNP's side effects.

DNP+EC stack+40% caloric deficit+x 5-7 days of light and easy cardio.


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> Depends on the person/goals/etc. Many factors and effective stacks.
> 
> DNP+EC stack is the best because DNP increases fat loss while EC stack increases energy/lower cravings, a strong synergy between them to cover DNP's side effects.
> 
> DNP+EC stack+40% caloric deficit+x 5-7 days of light and easy cardio.


 Believe I'm on about about -30-40% deficit.

Don't have an EC stack to hand, can't source any. But been using 200mg Caffeine and 15mg Yohimbine pre work and feeling good.

Spent a good 30-50 minutes walking the dog daily, have been jogging part of that as well.

Also out of curiosity, any Idea on the effects of adding 50mg Winstol ED with 200mg DNP?

Guessing the winstol would push the water held out by the dnp, but would also need to drink even more water on both together.


----------



## stewedw

Vinny said:


> Believe I'm on about about -30-40% deficit.
> 
> Don't have an EC stack to hand, can't source any. But been using 200mg Caffeine and 15mg Yohimbine pre work and feeling good.
> 
> Spent a good 30-50 minutes walking the dog daily, have been jogging part of that as well.
> 
> Also out of curiosity, any Idea on the effects of adding 50mg Winstol ED with 200mg DNP?
> 
> Guessing the winstol would push the water held out by the dnp, but would also need to drink even more water on both together.


 Adding to the above, if running test and npp wouldn't the extra glycogen you store on aas, hinder the fat loss as per some of the dnp "dos and don'ts"? Thanks.


----------



## Vinny

stewedw said:


> Adding to the above, if running test and npp wouldn't the extra glycogen you store on aas, hinder the fat loss as per some of the dnp "dos and don'ts"? Thanks.


 I don't believe you would benefit from the Test and NPP in regards to extra glycogen stores, as the DNP will burn through your glycogen and stop the up-take from glycogen, so you will still be and look flat.


----------



## stewedw

Vinny said:


> I don't believe you would benefit from the Test and NPP in regards to extra glycogen stores, as the DNP will burn through your glycogen and stop the up-take from glycogen, so you will still be and look flat.


 I meant would running aas "hinder" the dnp run due to the glycogen uptaks, but I figure dnp takes out what you've got regardless, which is what you've alluded to above. Cheers.


----------



## Vinny

stewedw said:


> I meant would running aas "hinder" the dnp run due to the glycogen uptaks, but I figure dnp takes out what you've got regardless, which is what you've alluded to above. Cheers.


 Using AAS should help you hold onto more muscle while cutting. I was 150mg Test E, increased it to 210mg Test when I was cutting food down even further.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Believe I'm on about about -30-40% deficit.
> 
> Don't have an EC stack to hand, can't source any. But been using 200mg Caffeine and 15mg Yohimbine pre work and feeling good.
> 
> Spent a good 30-50 minutes walking the dog daily, have been jogging part of that as well.
> 
> Also out of curiosity, any Idea on the effects of adding 50mg Winstol ED with 200mg DNP?
> 
> Guessing the winstol would push the water held out by the dnp, but would also need to drink even more water on both together.


 That's a good alternative you are on.

Winstrol might help with the water, yeah. You should always drink water. 1/2-1 gallon or until urine is light yellow or clear.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Adding to the above, if running test and npp wouldn't the extra glycogen you store on aas, hinder the fat loss as per some of the dnp "dos and don'ts"? Thanks.


 False, your basically saying that having glycogen will impair fat loss.

Horseshit, i and many others get single digit body fat on very high carb diets, this keep my muscles hard/ripped/full/strong, my libido and mood high, etc.

It's just myth. Caloric deficit is #1.


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> That's a good alternative you are on.
> 
> Winstrol might help with the water, yeah. You should always drink water. 1/2-1 gallon or until urine is light yellow or clear.


 Will give it a go, just the winstrol doesn't trash my Lipids before starting the Deca and EQ.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> @swole troll
> 
> To add to this,
> 
> Many cases are caused by undiagnosed sleep apnea. So difficult to treat cases need a sleep study and possible CPAP/BIPAP machine. Body compensates for apnea induced hypoxia by upregulating erythrocyotosis (red blood cell production) to carry oxygen, this gets hyper charged on TRT and AAS.
> 
> Keeping the Free T in the low-medium therapeutic range and increasing injection frequency to x 3-7 days per week can also help in TRT cases. 20-30 ng/mL (American Units) 0.7-1 nmol/L (UK units)


 weirdly my entire hematology panel (bar white blood cell) has come back perfectly in range so it's back to the drawing board as to why I've been breathless

on 900mg EQ i was sure it was blood viscosity issue but results were aokay


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Yohimbine should be used fasted for fat loss for best results.
> 
> It makes more sense to use ephedrine first, yohimbine is best at torching stubborn fat due to alpha 2 adrenergic receptor blocking, so it makes more sense to use it when you start getting into the tougher fat but the appetite suppressant effect of Ephedrine is useful as well as the energy boost.
> 
> When i used Ephedrine, once a day was enough for me and i have a very high tolerance for stimulants. I don't use fat burners anymore, if i need to cut, it only takes me 2-3 weeks max as i stay very lean year round.


 That's kinda where I am. The last 5 kg of fat seems stubborn. Is it very important to train fasted with yohimbine? I mean, is it worthwhile taking it if not training fasted ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Could a 52-53% and 18 rbc could give shortness of breath ?

those were the last results , some weeks after taking TB-500 (it increase my rbc/hmtc) .

I get shortness of breath when I exercice , not that bad but still.

My blood pressure is good : 11.5/6 , everything in range. only rbc/hmtc and iron a little bit high.

I do 30-40min of cardio at least 4 times a week since a year now , I don't think my cardio is bad .

I know my shortness of breath is from AAS use (only using 200-250mg test) , and I think it's from elevated hematocrit but I thought it'd give those sides at 55%+


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> weirdly my entire hematology panel (bar white blood cell) has come back perfectly in range so it's back to the drawing board as to why I've been breathless
> 
> on 900mg EQ i was sure it was blood viscosity issue but results were aokay


 How is Ferritin? Free T4/Free T3? Both common causes of Shortness of breath. Low levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Will give it a go, just the winstrol doesn't trash my Lipids before starting the Deca and EQ.


 Bad lipids take decades to cause harm and cardiovascular fitness is more important factor to cardiovascular health.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> That's kinda where I am. The last 5 kg of fat seems stubborn. Is it very important to train fasted with yohimbine? I mean, is it worthwhile taking it if not training fasted ?


 For fat loss, always fasted.

If using it as a pre-workout, doesn't matter.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Could a 52-53% and 18 rbc could give shortness of breath ?
> 
> those were the last results , some weeks after taking TB-500 (it increase my rbc/hmtc) .
> 
> I get shortness of breath when I exercice , not that bad but still.
> 
> My blood pressure is good : 11.5/6 , everything in range. only rbc/hmtc and iron a little bit high.
> 
> I do 30-40min of cardio at least 4 times a week since a year now , I don't think my cardio is bad .
> 
> I know my shortness of breath is from AAS use (only using 200-250mg test) , and I think it's from elevated hematocrit but I thought it'd give those sides at 55%+


 Maybe, donate blood and you will know. Should bring it down 2-3%.

What is your ferritin?


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> Bad lipids take decades to cause harm and cardiovascular fitness is more important factor to cardiovascular health.


 Surprisingly my cardiovascular seems alot better even on the DNP and winstrol. Think it's down to the weight loss to be honest.

Cheers


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> How is Ferritin? Free T4/Free T3? Both common causes of Shortness of breath. Low levels.


 didn't test for it unfortunately

it wasn't a very comprehensive panel by any means

it was actually a resent kit as my last test the blood cells were damaged so they could test everything but hematology

so as a gesture of good will they sent me another kit just for hematology testing.

I'll get retested if the problem doesn't subside


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> didn't test for it unfortunately
> 
> it wasn't a very comprehensive panel by any means
> 
> it was actually a resent kit as my last test the blood cells were damaged so they could test everything but hematology
> 
> so as a gesture of good will they sent me another kit just for hematology testing.
> 
> I'll get retested if the problem doesn't subside


 Yeah, if you donate frequently or even used to in the past, you could have low ferritin. Even one donation can drop you by 20-30 or so i've been told by a colleague. You want to be over 60 at least

Low ferritin can cause shortness of breath as can sluggish thyroid. Heart issues can also cause dyspnea/SOB, so if you rule out Ferritin/Free T4 some heart scans would be in order. (EKG+Echocardiogram)


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, if you donate frequently or even used to in the past, you could have low ferritin. Even one donation can drop you by 20-30 or so i've been told by a colleague. You want to be over 60 at least
> 
> Low ferritin can cause shortness of breath as can sluggish thyroid. Heart issues can also cause dyspnea/SOB, so if you rule out Ferritin/Free T4 some heart scans would be in order. (EKG+Echocardiogram)


 @swole troll

I can confirm this.

From near the start of my days taking aas I had been and still am donating every 10 to 12 weeks or so.

I was always very cautious for the first few years of use and got bloods done every 4 to 6 weeks at a private clinic.

I found that my ferritin was very low, around the 20 mark give or take on several occasions even several weeks following the donation.

Popped some ferrus sulphate for a few weeks and ferritin came back up.

At the time I didnt think it was the donations as thousands of people give blood and the NHS done then tell you to supplement with iron their after.

After another occasion with bloods again showing I was low in ferritin I did a bit of research and then realised it was the frequent donations that were causing the low ferritin levels I was constantly experiencing.

So now I give bloods as usual, but then pop ferrus sulphate for a few weeks after the donation to reinstate the lost iron for that donation.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, if you donate frequently or even used to in the past, you could have low ferritin. Even one donation can drop you by 20-30 or so i've been told by a colleague. You want to be over 60 at least
> 
> Low ferritin can cause shortness of breath as can sluggish thyroid. Heart issues can also cause dyspnea/SOB, so if you rule out Ferritin/Free T4 some heart scans would be in order. (EKG+Echocardiogram)





MarkyMark said:


> @swole troll
> 
> I can confirm this.
> 
> From near the start of my days taking aas I had been and still am donating every 10 to 12 weeks or so.
> 
> I was always very cautious for the first few years of use and got bloods done every 4 to 6 weeks at a private clinic.
> 
> I found that my ferritin was very low, around the 20 mark give or take on several occasions even several weeks following the donation.
> 
> Popped some ferrus sulphate for a few weeks and ferritin came back up.
> 
> At the time I didnt think it was the donations as thousands of people give blood and the NHS done then tell you to supplement with iron their after.
> 
> After another occasion with bloods again showing I was low in ferritin I did a bit of research and then realised it was the frequent donations that were causing the low ferritin levels I was constantly experiencing.
> 
> So now I give bloods as usual, but then pop ferrus sulphate for a few weeks after the donation to reinstate the lost iron for that donation.


 thanks again guys,

if the problem persists this is something I will look into getting tested.

On that topic I have been reading lately of limiting donations to x2 annually at most to prevent your kidneys up regulating EPO production

I've been a 3x per annum letter for about 5 years now and with this in mind including these potential ferritin issues I may scale it back.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Maybe, donate blood and you will know. Should bring it down 2-3%.
> 
> What is your ferritin?


 will donate in the coming days.

Iron 193μg/dl (59−158)

34,5μmol/l (10,6−28,3)

Ferritin 240 μg/l (30−400)

sidérophiline saturation : 54,8% (20,0−40,0). really high

@ElChapo donating blood will decrease my iron of 20-30 μg/dl ?


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> thanks again guys,
> 
> if the problem persists this is something I will look into getting tested.
> 
> On that topic I have been reading lately of limiting donations to x2 annually at most to prevent your kidneys up regulating EPO production
> 
> I've been a 3x per annum letter for about 5 years now and with this in mind including these potential ferritin issues I may scale it back.


 I used to donate blood every 56 days , but the last 2 times I gave I was tired and felt quite depressed for some days.

I had hair loss , loss of energy too.

Found out that my ferritin/iron were so low , when it used to be over the normal range before I first donated.

So yes , donating too often like I used to do , will crash ur iron /ferritin levels and you'll get side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> thanks again guys,
> 
> if the problem persists this is something I will look into getting tested.
> 
> On that topic I have been reading lately of limiting donations to x2 annually at most to prevent your kidneys up regulating EPO production
> 
> I've been a 3x per annum letter for about 5 years now and with this in mind including these potential ferritin issues I may scale it back.


 I bet your ferrtin might be damn low then. I would test that asap.

Don't take any iron before testing so you know the baseline.


----------



## One rep max

Anyone used Resveratrol heard good things about it


----------



## jj1996

Hey mate, is there any merit to maintaining a bodyweight after a bulk for a while before cutting? Or can we go straight into a deficit without risking muscle loss? Both done on the same blast period


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> will donate in the coming days.
> 
> Iron 193μg/dl (59−158)
> 
> 34,5μmol/l (10,6−28,3)
> 
> Ferritin 240 μg/l (30−400)
> 
> sidérophiline saturation : 54,8% (20,0−40,0). really high
> 
> @ElChapo donating blood will decrease my iron of 20-30 μg/dl ?


 Ferritin*

And that is what i heard from a colleague. Don't know the exact number myself.


----------



## ElChapo

One rep max said:


> Anyone used Resveratrol heard good things about it


 Probably overrated in practice. Pycnogenol is better.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Hey mate, is there any merit to maintaining a bodyweight after a bulk for a while before cutting? Or can we go straight into a deficit without risking muscle loss? Both done on the same blast period


 Honestly, in practice it has limited benefit. I usually went from bulk to cut right away without any issue and the extra leptin from bulking helps you cut calories easy.

The muscle tissue you built aka the myocytes are not going to dissappeared just because you cut right away. Some people think they "lose the muscle" due to low calories which can make you flatter. That's not muscle loss.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, in practice it has limited benefit. I usually went from bulk to cut right away without any issue and the extra leptin from bulking helps you cut calories easy.
> 
> The muscle tissue you built aka the myocytes are not going to dissappeared just because you cut right away. Some people think they "lose the muscle" due to low calories which can make you flatter. That's not muscle loss.


 Cheers boss! appreciated as always.


----------



## Alibab2001

@ElChapo - no question this time just wanted to say thanks for the advice on using slin pins for vento glute injections - i have many times in the past suffered horrendous PIP - sometimes weeks of swelling/unable to train etc etc - having read over this thread and taken up your advice - ive switched to slin pins and so for so good.

thanks!


----------



## arbffgadm100

One rep max said:


> Anyone used Resveratrol heard good things about it


 I use it in 2 products: Supplement Needs' liposomal RV and curcumin (they are synergistic), and in Thorne's "resveracel", which is an NR/RV/Quercitin product. From everything I've read (several books on longevity and a few papers), if you have the cash then it's worth the bother.


----------



## ElChapo

Alibab2001 said:


> @ElChapo - no question this time just wanted to say thanks for the advice on using slin pins for vento glute injections - i have many times in the past suffered horrendous PIP - sometimes weeks of swelling/unable to train etc etc - having read over this thread and taken up your advice - ive switched to slin pins and so for so good.
> 
> thanks!


 Happy to hear it brother, that's why i'm here.


----------



## Vinny

@ElChapo Hi dude.

What's your thoughts on body fat readings while on DNP?

Scale says 10.5-13%, but will the reading be high from holding water creating less resistance or low due to muscles being flat.

Attached a picture of yesterday, still on 200mg DNP, and this morning said was 10.5%.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> @ElChapo Hi dude.
> 
> What's your thoughts on body fat readings while on DNP?
> 
> Scale says 10.5-13%, but will the reading be high from holding water creating less resistance or low due to muscles being flat.
> 
> Attached a picture of yesterday, still on 200mg DNP, and this morning said was 10.5%.
> 
> View attachment 179233


 Around 11% looks about right.

You will look better after you return to maintenance. You will drop water weight and muscles will pump up. You could even be 10% or 9% and just holding water, which is completely normal on a deficit, especially with DNP too.


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> Around 11% looks about right.
> 
> You will look better after you return to maintenance. You will drop water weight and muscles will pump up. You could even be 10% or 9% and just holding water, which is completely normal on a deficit, especially with DNP too.


 Thanks pal, much appreciated.

Going to stat Test/Deca/EQ at the weekend, so going to cut for another 2 weeks for the sake of it, and then slowly start increasing the build back up.


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo my daily TDEE varies massively on days where I'm at work vs rest days I try to maintain a 300 calorie surplus based on my TDEE that day. (Non work days 3000cals work days 4600 cals) but I'm finding I'm gaining no weight at the end of the week. Should I take my weekly average calories burned and add 500 to that number and try this instead? So I'll be eating the same meal plan every day regardless of whether at work or not.

Sorry if I've worded it a bit difficult to understand but is quite complex question


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo my daily TDEE varies massively on days where I'm at work vs rest days I try to maintain a 300 calorie surplus based on my TDEE that day. (Non work days 3000cals work days 4600 cals) but I'm finding I'm gaining no weight at the end of the week. Should I take my weekly average calories burned and add 500 to that number and try this instead? So I'll be eating the same meal plan every day regardless of whether at work or not.
> 
> Sorry if I've worded it a bit difficult to understand but is quite complex question


 Yes, and target weight gain should be fairly small if you want to prevent fat gain. Also use your strength as a barometer of muscle gains.


----------



## woolymaggot

@El Chapo thanks for the advice. My TSH was normal and my GP said my thyroid was fine. I wasn't satisfied and got my T3/4 tested as they can't do anymore. It showed I was below normal range and my symptoms of fatigue, feeling cold and inability to lose bodyfat which used to come easy.

You advised 100mccgT4 daily empty stomach first thing.

6 weeks later I'm slap bang middle range. Symptoms are are getting better.

I'm toying with the idea of bumping up to 125mcg or 150mcg T4 per day and test again in 6 weeks. Would like to get to close to upper range which is where I once sat. Any thoughts on this? Should I maybe just say, it's middle so it's ok.

As a side note. I got nowhere with my doc, even after showing the low reading so I have to source myself. Annoyed as they should have referred me for secondary testing and also as they incorrectly stated my thyroid was fine. I appreciate they are limited in testing and these decisions aren't made by GPs but as you said...FSH/LH fine equals test being fine....yeah right.

Thanks again buddy


----------



## ElChapo

woolymaggot said:


> @El Chapo thanks for the advice. My TSH was normal and my GP said my thyroid was fine. I wasn't satisfied and got my T3/4 tested as they can't do anymore. It showed I was below normal range and my symptoms of fatigue, feeling cold and inability to lose bodyfat which used to come easy.
> 
> You advised 100mccgT4 daily empty stomach first thing.
> 
> 6 weeks later I'm slap bang middle range. Symptoms are are getting better.
> 
> I'm toying with the idea of bumping up to 125mcg or 150mcg T4 per day and test again in 6 weeks. Would like to get to close to upper range which is where I once sat. Any thoughts on this? Should I maybe just say, it's middle so it's ok.
> 
> As a side note. I got nowhere with my doc, even after showing the low reading so I have to source myself. Annoyed as they should have referred me for secondary testing and also as they incorrectly stated my thyroid was fine. I appreciate they are limited in testing and these decisions aren't made by GPs but as you said...FSH/LH fine equals test being fine....yeah right.
> 
> Thanks again buddy
> 
> View attachment 179255
> 
> 
> View attachment 179257


 Increase levothyroxine dose until you get 19.3-20.6 pmol/L. Most need 100-200 mcg to reach this level. It's the level found in people with fully functional thyroid glands. The lab range is completely flawed.

Remember, empty stomach as soon as you wake up, wait 1 hour before food/drink/supplements/other meds. Skip the pill the morning of the blood work. Re-test every 4 weeks until optimal Free Thyroxine attained.

If any residual symptoms, add 5-10 mcg T3. Done.

Any symptoms not resolved by the above is not thyroid related.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

Friend of a friend sent this and said she's had an IM shot of vit B12. I thought B12 was a fad and not worth it? I also thought B12 was a sub q injection. Any ideas or thoughts on its use in this cause or does it have any other benifits?

"Her blood count is super low, iron super low, B12 super low. There's not enough red cells in her blood"


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Friend of a friend sent this and said she's had an IM shot of vit B12. I thought B12 was a fad and not worth it? I also thought B12 was a sub q injection. Any ideas or thoughts on its use in this cause or does it have any other benifits?
> 
> "Her blood count is super low, iron super low, B12 super low. There's not enough red cells in her blood"


 Generally, a high quality oral B12 will do the job. Injections are overrated and very high placebo effect. You want methylcobalamin instead of cyano, the crappy version.

IM/SQ are both absorbed, IM generally provides better absorption for most medications. If iron is low, she needs iron supplementation too.


----------



## Ray Gin

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, if you donate frequently or even used to in the past, you could have low ferritin. Even one donation can drop you by 20-30 or so i've been told by a colleague. You want to be over 60 at least
> 
> Low ferritin can cause shortness of breath as can sluggish thyroid. Heart issues can also cause dyspnea/SOB, so if you rule out Ferritin/Free T4 some heart scans would be in order. (EKG+Echocardiogram)


 @El Chapo I had some blood tests done about 6 months ago due to a health matter. The doctor mentioned I had high ferritin levels. She said it was nothing to particularly worry about but to re-do the tests in 6 months time.

I was off cycle at the time of the tests 6 months ago. Any idea of causes/symptoms of high ferratin?


----------



## Djibril

Hello @ElChapo i got a question regarding pubertal gyno reversal.

I've been taking pharma raloxifene for almost 8 weeks now and was wondering, should i go with one more box for 4 more weeks and a total of 12? Right nipple gyno seems to be in the same situation as when before starting.


----------



## sos2008

Hi @El Chapo

Recently had some blood work done, currently off cycle, have only run test in the last year but my HDL cholesterol keeps coming back v low. I've put results below. I've added all this in over 6 months ago - fish oil, HIT 3x a week, eat a good diet, dont smoke, drink rarely & it hasn't moved an inch. Any supplements or ideas to raise HDL?

HDL: 0.86 nmol/l - 0-388 range - v low

LDL Cholesterol: 2.68 nmol - normal

Overall Cholesterol: 4.23 nmol - optimal

Triglycerides: 1.51 nmol - normal

Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.37nmol - normal

Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio - 4.92:1 ratio - abnormal (too high)

My BP is pretty good consistently around 125/70 on and off cycle, i'm about 215lbs 6ft 12% bf so not huge either as they suggested loosing some size when i was bigger (which i reluctantly dropped 10lbs). I had ferratin & CRP tested too both came back optimal so i'm a bit out of ideas on the HDL reading.


----------



## arbffgadm100

sos2008 said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> Recently had some blood work done, currently off cycle, have only run test in the last year but my HDL cholesterol keeps coming back v low. I've put results below. I've added all this in over 6 months ago - fish oil, HIT 3x a week, eat a good diet, dont smoke, drink rarely & it hasn't moved an inch. Any supplements or ideas to raise HDL?
> 
> HDL: 0.86 nmol/l - 0-388 range - v low
> 
> LDL Cholesterol: 2.68 nmol - normal
> 
> Overall Cholesterol: 4.23 nmol - optimal
> 
> Triglycerides: 1.51 nmol - normal
> 
> Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.37nmol - normal
> 
> Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio - 4.92:1 ratio - abnormal (too high)
> 
> My BP is pretty good consistently around 125/70 on and off cycle, i'm about 215lbs 6ft 12% bf so not huge either as they suggested loosing some size when i was bigger (which i reluctantly dropped 10lbs). I had ferratin & CRP tested too both came back optimal so i'm a bit out of ideas on the HDL reading.


 Citrus bergamot, krill oil, garlic, CoQ10, olive leaf extract.


----------



## sos2008

arbffgadm100 said:


> Citrus bergamot, krill oil, garlic, CoQ10, olive leaf extract.


 Thanks mate,

Will look into those.


----------



## ElChapo

Ray Gin said:


> @El Chapo I had some blood tests done about 6 months ago due to a health matter. The doctor mentioned I had high ferritin levels. She said it was nothing to particularly worry about but to re-do the tests in 6 months time.
> 
> I was off cycle at the time of the tests 6 months ago. Any idea of causes/symptoms of high ferratin?


 What is the level? I wouldn't be concerned unless it's over 200.

Fatty liver can cause it and a genetic disorder where the body stores too much iron. It's fairly rare. I need your numbers


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo i got a question regarding pubertal gyno reversal.
> 
> I've been taking pharma raloxifene for almost 8 weeks now and was wondering, should i go with one more box for 4 more weeks and a total of 12? Right nipple gyno seems to be in the same situation as when before starting.


 Give it another 4 weeks. Is it pharma grade or from UGL?

12 weeks for best results.

Are you on any steroids/hormones/HGH/Peptides?


----------



## ElChapo

sos2008 said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> Recently had some blood work done, currently off cycle, have only run test in the last year but my HDL cholesterol keeps coming back v low. I've put results below. I've added all this in over 6 months ago - fish oil, HIT 3x a week, eat a good diet, dont smoke, drink rarely & it hasn't moved an inch. Any supplements or ideas to raise HDL?
> 
> HDL: 0.86 nmol/l - 0-388 range - v low
> 
> LDL Cholesterol: 2.68 nmol - normal
> 
> Overall Cholesterol: 4.23 nmol - optimal
> 
> Triglycerides: 1.51 nmol - normal
> 
> Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.37nmol - normal
> 
> Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio - 4.92:1 ratio - abnormal (too high)
> 
> My BP is pretty good consistently around 125/70 on and off cycle, i'm about 215lbs 6ft 12% bf so not huge either as they suggested loosing some size when i was bigger (which i reluctantly dropped 10lbs). I had ferratin & CRP tested too both came back optimal so i'm a bit out of ideas on the HDL reading.


 Steady state cardio is better than HIIT for increasing HDL. 1-2 glasses of red wine will also give you a boost.

What is your testosterone dosage? Anything over 200 mg per week will hit HDL harder and HDL levels and sensitivity to dropping from AAS is genetic.

More important than lipids is cardiovascular fitness, being lean, and controlling BP. This will have a greater role in heart health than lipid levels.


----------



## sos2008

ElChapo said:


> Steady state cardio is better than HIIT for increasing HDL. 1-2 glasses of red wine will also give you a boost.
> 
> What is your testosterone dosage? Anything over 200 mg per week will hit HDL harder and HDL levels and sensitivity to dropping from AAS is genetic.
> 
> More important than lipids is cardiovascular fitness, being lean, and controlling BP. This will have a greater role in heart health than lipid levels.


 Thanks @El Chapo

I am not on anything at the moment those cholesterol results are my natural readings which is why i really want to get my HDL up. I never go over 500mg of test and always stay away from 19nors, occasionally will use var at 30mg a day but i know that is notorious for killing HDL so may avoid that in future too. Fitness is good, BP is good and 12% bf so i cant really do much more to get it going so will look into some more supplements, steady state cardio & red wine.


----------



## ElChapo

sos2008 said:


> Thanks @El Chapo
> 
> I am not on anything at the moment those cholesterol results are my natural readings which is why i really want to get my HDL up. I never go over 500mg of test and always stay away from 19nors, occasionally will use var at 30mg a day but i know that is notorious for killing HDL so may avoid that in future too. Fitness is good, BP is good and 12% bf so i cant really do much more to get it going so will look into some more supplements, steady state cardio & red wine.


 How long after a cycle were these bloods done? A cycle and high testosterone can lower HDL for up to 8 weeks in some cases.


----------



## CarrotTop

ElChapo said:


> What is the level? I wouldn't be concerned unless it's over 200.
> 
> Fatty liver can cause it and a genetic disorder where the body stores too much iron. It's fairly rare. I need your numbers


 Sorry to hijack his question, but mine is similar!

my latest ferritin was 239ug/L (30-400)

6 months before that, was 380 and year before was 706

Have read it can spike immediately after an intramuscular injection, is that right?

Here is latest iron status.....


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Give it another 4 weeks. Is it pharma grade or from UGL?
> 
> 12 weeks for best results.
> 
> Are you on any steroids/hormones/HGH/Peptides?


 Pharma mate. Will give it 4 more weeks.

250 mgs pharma Test E weekly + hcg + exemestane.

No hgh no peptides never


----------



## TITO

Double post


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> 1. Yes
> 
> 2. Bullshit
> 
> 3. No luck, if you use muscle, your body tries to use other sources for energy. This is why you lift during a cut. You also want to aim for around 1 g protein per lbs of lean body mass.
> 
> 4. I just maintain now, i hit each body part once a week. I do cardio several times a week. I maintain 7-10% body fat year round. I've already achieved my ideal physique.
> 
> 5. No breaks needed


 @El Chapo do you do a bro split or ppl once per wk? What cardio do you do?

I swim (just steady pace breaststroke) for an hour 2-3 times per week and weight train 3-4 times per week.

Do you think I should do more cardio and add sscv after a couple of weight sessions?

how much cardio per day/week is best for over all health?


----------



## sos2008

ElChapo said:


> How long after a cycle were these bloods done? A cycle and high testosterone can lower HDL for up to 8 weeks in some cases.


 Around 10 weeks post last pct tab. My Cholesterol even before i used steroids was the same, i just cant seem to get the HDL to budge.


----------



## ElChapo

CarrotTop said:


> Sorry to hijack his question, but mine is similar!
> 
> my latest ferritin was 239ug/L (30-400)
> 
> 6 months before that, was 380 and year before was 706
> 
> Have read it can spike immediately after an intramuscular injection, is that right?
> 
> Here is latest iron status.....
> 
> View attachment 179321


 After injection of what? Testosterone? Hell no. Iron injection? Maybe.

700 is absolutely insane and dangerous and 380 is extremely high.

239 is high, but i would not be concerned.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Pharma mate. Will give it 4 more weeks.
> 
> 250 mgs pharma Test E weekly + hcg + exemestane.
> 
> No hgh no peptides never


 It should work, maybe 10% of guys have stubborn gyno or fibrous tissue that needs to be surgically removed.

What is your body fat %, many guys have fatty deposits. It's a good idea to get down to 9-12% and see if it goes away. Ralox won't work on estrogenic gynoid fat.


----------



## CarrotTop

ElChapo said:


> After injection of what? Testosterone? Hell no. Iron injection? Maybe.
> 
> 700 is absolutely insane and dangerous and 380 is extremely high.
> 
> 239 is high, but i would not be concerned.


 What in your opinion, would likely be the cause for high levels?


----------



## ElChapo

CarrotTop said:


> What in your opinion, would likely be the cause for high levels?


 Well, i'm not a wizard but it's usually a genetic disorder that makes the liver accumulate too much iron. The other common cause is fatty liver. That's all i know, you would have to follow up with an expert in that field.

200s i wouldn't be worried about though.


----------



## Towel

@ElChapo

1. gyno has flared up on current Npp cycle, bloods show E2 and prolactin both low end of scale.

What can you use if anything for progesterone gyno? Which I'm taking it this due to eliminating E2 and prolactin

Been using Raloxifene which seems to be slowly working but very slow, assume I just need to drop Npp

2. Going to switch to HMG on cycle instead of hcg as from reading it must stand you in better stead to recover fertility considering I blast and cruise, is the E2 spike similar from HMG to hcg. Was going to do 75iu twice a week and see how it compares to 500iu hcg twice a week


----------



## Devil

These iron results anything alarmingly high?

Everything else was golden. Great cholesterol, test level 30ish so top of range on cruise.

Haven't got any RBC though and haven't donated in a good 6-8 months+. Normally donate every 3-4 months last few years.

thanks bud @ElChapo


----------



## trio

@El Chapo

1. Best time to jab Test prop?

2. Start HCG the same day as jab or day after?

3. Is HMG better than HCG? If so, at what dose?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I donated blood 4 days ago , my strength at the gym decreased badly since (I didnt train the first 48hours after donating) , like every time I donate blood. (losing like 10-12% of strength)

But it doesn't seem to come back even 2 weeks after , is it from less RBC? I know that when my RBC/hematocrit are high(higher than normal range) , I get shortness of breath BUT I am stronger on bench press/squats and other main lifts.

I'm training for strength mostly , so it s really annoying. it destroys my strength cycles programs but I do feel better health wise


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo, hope you're well.

I'm currently doing a moderate blast, 8 weeks of tbol 50mg per day, tudca everyday and 500mg test a week for 10 weeks. I'm on my second week and already carry a bit of water. I'm taking aromasin twice a week, keeping sodium low and drinking lots of water.

At the end of the 10 weeks I'll be going on holiday and want to lose as much bloat as possible for when I'm there.

What would be the best way to do this? I'll have access to steroids on holiday.

Should I drop the test a few weeks before or take something else whilst there like winstrol. I don't drink alcohol and I'll be eating fairly clean there.

Thanks for any help and sorry for the long post.


----------



## wat_is_this

Hi @ElChapo

Have you ever heard of someone suffering from hypokalaemia due to steroids?

I believe I had a bad case of low potassium years ago when on Test E and was wondering if it is a somewhat common thing to look out or take pre-emptive measures for with supplements.


----------



## ElChapo

Towel said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 1. gyno has flared up on current Npp cycle, bloods show E2 and prolactin both low end of scale.
> 
> What can you use if anything for progesterone gyno? Which I'm taking it this due to eliminating E2 and prolactin
> 
> Been using Raloxifene which seems to be slowly working but very slow, assume I just need to drop Npp
> 
> 2. Going to switch to HMG on cycle instead of hcg as from reading it must stand you in better stead to recover fertility considering I blast and cruise, is the E2 spike similar from HMG to hcg. Was going to do 75iu twice a week and see how it compares to 500iu hcg twice a week


 1. Your best bet is to finish your cycle, then run ralox/nolvadex or drop the NPP and start ralox/nolvadex now. Up to you. Ralox works poorly while you are taking the offending compound (npp/tren).

2. Yes, HMG is superior. 150-300 IU per week is the dose you want. You could also combine it with HCG. E2 spike from HCG is overstated, HCG can cause some E2 type symptoms itself Independent of E2.


----------



## ElChapo

Devil said:


> View attachment 179365
> 
> 
> View attachment 179367
> 
> 
> View attachment 179369
> 
> 
> These iron results anything alarmingly high?
> 
> Everything else was golden. Great cholesterol, test level 30ish so top of range on cruise.
> 
> Haven't got any RBC though and haven't donated in a good 6-8 months+. Normally donate every 3-4 months last few years.
> 
> thanks bud @ElChapo


 Looks fine, if you do donate, take iron for 4-8 weeks to replenish the ferritin since it's already borderline. Generally, you want to be at around +70-100 at least for optimal performance. Never under 60.


----------



## ElChapo

trio said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> 1. Best time to jab Test prop?
> 
> 2. Start HCG the same day as jab or day after?
> 
> 3. Is HMG better than HCG? If so, at what dose?


 All preference for #1 & 2. Same day makes it easy to remember. Test prop can be done twice or thrice weekly. I do twice weekly with good results.

3. HMG is better but much much more expensive and harder to find. Dose should be 150-300 IU per week. x 2-3 per week split.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I donated blood 4 days ago , my strength at the gym decreased badly since (I didnt train the first 48hours after donating) , like every time I donate blood. (losing like 10-12% of strength)
> 
> But it doesn't seem to come back even 2 weeks after , is it from less RBC? I know that when my RBC/hematocrit are high(higher than normal range) , I get shortness of breath BUT I am stronger on bench press/squats and other main lifts.
> 
> I'm training for strength mostly , so it s really annoying. it destroys my strength cycles programs but I do feel better health wise


 Yes, less RBC and you lose iron/ferritin. This is normal, especially if your RBC or ferritin were already borderline. Higher RBC = more oxygen to muscles = better performance

You need to address the cause of the high HCT. Often times it's sleep apnea or high dose testosterone or both.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo, hope you're well.
> 
> I'm currently doing a moderate blast, 8 weeks of tbol 50mg per day, tudca everyday and 500mg test a week for 10 weeks. I'm on my second week and already carry a bit of water. I'm taking aromasin twice a week, keeping sodium low and drinking lots of water.
> 
> At the end of the 10 weeks I'll be going on holiday and want to lose as much bloat as possible for when I'm there.
> 
> What would be the best way to do this? I'll have access to steroids on holiday.
> 
> Should I drop the test a few weeks before or take something else whilst there like winstrol. I don't drink alcohol and I'll be eating fairly clean there.
> 
> Thanks for any help and sorry for the long post.


 Like i always say, if you don't want to hold water, use testosterone propionate only. It makes you hold significantly less water and bloat. Androgens/testosterone can cause bloat even with 0 estradiol. They affect things like sodium resorption/aldosterone/etc.

Switch your testosterone to 300 mg testosterone propionate immediately and add winstrol. This will fix your issue. Make sure you arent taking too much AI.


----------



## ElChapo

wat_is_this said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Have you ever heard of someone suffering from hypokalaemia due to steroids?
> 
> I believe I had a bad case of low potassium years ago when on Test E and was wondering if it is a somewhat common thing to look out or take pre-emptive measures for with supplements.


 No, and did you re-test labs right after? Mistakes with blood draw will affect serum potassium due to something called hemolysis.


----------



## wat_is_this

ElChapo said:


> No, and did you re-test labs right after? Mistakes with blood draw will affect serum potassium due to something called hemolysis.


 Thanks for the reply.

I had my bloods taken at hospital during an episode of muscle weakness and potassium came back as very low (can't recall the number). I believe they checked the levels again at a later point to confirm they were in a healthy range before being released although it was 2 or so years ago now.

Unfortunately I can't get potassium levels checked myself via medichecks as it's too sensitive to send via post.

I'm going to up my supplement game and see if there are general improvements (get the occasional shin cramps).


----------



## ElChapo

wat_is_this said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I had my bloods taken at hospital during an episode of muscle weakness and potassium came back as very low (can't recall the number). I believe they checked the levels again at a later point to confirm they were in a healthy range before being released although it was 2 or so years ago now.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't get potassium levels checked myself via medichecks as it's too sensitive to send via post.
> 
> I'm going to up my supplement game and see if there are general improvements (get the occasional shin cramps).


 Whatever caused it, it would not be testosterone.

Did you take any diuretics, any other medications?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Would 350mg test instead of 250mg be beneficial during a strength program ?

With 500 calorie surplus , would the 100mg of test added would be felt ? or the difference is too small to care ?


----------



## SD2017

@ElChapo Alright mate, looking to get back on gear again after some time off. I've got a few half used vials of test and deca, around a year old. Just wondering if they would be still good to go and sterile after this time after swabbing the tops, or should I just play it safe and stick them in the bin, considering I have to buy more anyway?

Thanks


----------



## TITO

@El Chapo how much cardio per day/week is best in your opinion for over all health if doing weights 3-4 x per week?


----------



## wat_is_this

ElChapo said:


> Whatever caused it, it would not be testosterone.
> 
> Did you take any diuretics, any other medications?


 Just Test E at the time.

I started a Test E cycle again Jan 25th, last month after having around 2 years off everything (except my prescribed meds below) and 5 days later I have weakened muscles (starts with the legs, forearms, shins). I did read at some point that large meals especially carbs can cause this - I did eat like a mad man that day.

After eating a good few potatoes everything was back to normal after 2-3 hours.

It's pretty odd and i'm not sure the reason for it happening however there is definitely a correlation between starting my cycle and weakened muscles which I am quite sure is due to low potassium. My diet hasn't changed since hopping on cycle.

Currently on prescribed medications levothyroxine and propranolol along with my own cycle of test e - no other meds at all.

I did find this however prognosis seems to be diuretics (selfish body builder didn't disclose exactly what he took :angry: ) https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crie/2014/483835/


----------



## zariph

When would you advice to stop pinning npp + test p, so that it wont have an impact on bloodwork? How many days the least?


----------



## swole troll

@ElChapo wondered if you could shed some light on friend of mine's recent blood work,

He's big lad, lean with a clean diet, took 3 days off training before being tested

His values of concern are:

Urea 10.3mmol

Creatinine 174umol

EGFR 41.35

.

Creatine kinase 1659

.

ALT 74.7iu/l

(All other liver values within range)

He's been cruising 3 months on 250mg test

Hormones are

Test 88nmol

Oestrogen 386pmol

What advice would you give aside from implementing an AI first and foremost lol


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Would 350mg test instead of 250mg be beneficial during a strength program ?
> 
> With 500 calorie surplus , would the 100mg of test added would be felt ? or the difference is too small to care ?


 More is generally better


----------



## ElChapo

SD2017 said:


> @ElChapo Alright mate, looking to get back on gear again after some time off. I've got a few half used vials of test and deca, around a year old. Just wondering if they would be still good to go and sterile after this time after swabbing the tops, or should I just play it safe and stick them in the bin, considering I have to buy more anyway?
> 
> Thanks


 Completely fine.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @El Chapo how much cardio per day/week is best in your opinion for over all health if doing weights 3-4 x per week?


 x 3-6 days per week is good. 20-30 mins.


----------



## ElChapo

wat_is_this said:


> Just Test E at the time.
> 
> I started a Test E cycle again Jan 25th, last month after having around 2 years off everything (except my prescribed meds below) and 5 days later I have weakened muscles (starts with the legs, forearms, shins). I did read at some point that large meals especially carbs can cause this - I did eat like a mad man that day.
> 
> After eating a good few potatoes everything was back to normal after 2-3 hours.
> 
> It's pretty odd and i'm not sure the reason for it happening however there is definitely a correlation between starting my cycle and weakened muscles which I am quite sure is due to low potassium. My diet hasn't changed since hopping on cycle.
> 
> Currently on prescribed medications levothyroxine and propranolol along with my own cycle of test e - no other meds at all.
> 
> I did find this however prognosis seems to be diuretics (selfish body builder didn't disclose exactly what he took :angry: ) https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crie/2014/483835/


 It was likely a mistake done with the blood draw. Extremely common. Look it up , "hemolysis potassium"


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> When would you advice to stop pinning npp + test p, so that it wont have an impact on bloodwork? How many days the least?


 Impact on what blood work? What values exactly?


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> @ElChapo wondered if you could shed some light on friend of mine's recent blood work,
> 
> He's big lad, lean with a clean diet, took 3 days off training before being tested
> 
> His values of concern are:
> 
> Urea 10.3mmol
> 
> Creatinine 174umol
> 
> EGFR 41.35
> 
> .
> 
> Creatine kinase 1659
> 
> .
> 
> ALT 74.7iu/l
> 
> (All other liver values within range)
> 
> He's been cruising 3 months on 250mg test
> 
> Hormones are
> 
> Test 88nmol
> 
> Oestrogen 386pmol
> 
> What advice would you give aside from implementing an AI first and foremost lol


 Does he have any high E symptoms? How is sex drive/mood/energy/erections? If symptomatic, 0.5 mg adex to start to a maximum of 1 mg per week. High normal E is generally better, but his is very high. Once you go past 256 pmol/L+symptoms, then 0.5 mg adex will do the job most of the time.

If he's really muscular, then he can generate a lot of creatinine which can make him appear to have kidney disease in testing. He can get a few different labs to rule this out, Microalbumin test, and Cystastin C.

Usually kidney damage is caused by decades of very high blood pressure. Does he know is average resting BP? If his BP is really high for a long time, then he may have mild kidney failure, but if his BP is normal and he isn't diabetic, it's likely just his muscle mass making the GFR come out low.

He can take a full week off training and re-test CK levels. Sometimes it's just built up muscle damage/inflammation. If he's been cycling for a long time, it's good to get EKG/Echocardiogram to look directly at the heart.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> @ElChapo hi have you got a ideal full blood count test results i can see? Im on the look out to get mine checked but i wouldn't have a clue what to make of the results/readings, im thinking of donating blood to get a test.


 It depends, what are your concerns? What are you looking for? Just routine lab work? Full hormone panel?


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> Does he have any high E symptoms? How is sex drive/mood/energy/erections? If symptomatic, 0.5 mg adex to start to a maximum of 1 mg per week. High normal E is generally better, but his is very high. Once you go past 256 pmol/L+symptoms, then 0.5 mg adex will do the job most of the time.
> 
> If he's really muscular, then he can generate a lot of creatinine which can make him appear to have kidney disease in testing. He can get a few different labs to rule this out, Microalbumin test, and Cystastin C.
> 
> Usually kidney damage is caused by decades of very high blood pressure. Does he know is average resting BP? If his BP is really high for a long time, then he may have mild kidney failure, but if his BP is normal and he isn't diabetic, it's likely just his muscle mass making the GFR come out low.
> 
> He can take a full week off training and re-test CK levels. Sometimes it's just built up muscle damage/inflammation. If he's been cycling for a long time, it's good to get EKG/Echocardiogram to look directly at the heart.


 136/75 is his most recent average.

Yes he's carrying an unnatural amount of lean body mass on and off cycle.

On further questioning his renal values have been steady out of range for several years which I'm guessing is just attributed to his high lbm as you said since his values havnt declined at all.

He's not getting any libido issues and doesn't really suffer e2 sides but clearly it's ridiculously high so I've forwarded your text to him and advised him to keep a tighter rein on his oestrogen when cruising.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Impact on what blood work? What values exactly?


 Just want to know when it's out of the system so it won't make have an impact on test,estrogen,prolactin lvls.


----------



## pma111

What are perhaps the top/more common 5 reasons for high blood pressure in those not taking AAS.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Would you recommend eating oats for a bodybuilder/powerlifter?
It looks really good for people in the sport , I stopped eating oats because of high levels of iron in it , but I started back days ago and Id like to keep with it.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> 136/75 is his most recent average.
> 
> Yes he's carrying an unnatural amount of lean body mass on and off cycle.
> 
> On further questioning his renal values have been steady out of range for several years which I'm guessing is just attributed to his high lbm as you said since his values havnt declined at all.
> 
> He's not getting any libido issues and doesn't really suffer e2 sides but clearly it's ridiculously high so I've forwarded your text to him and advised him to keep a tighter rein on his oestrogen when cruising.


 I would get the other labs for kidney function if he wants to confirm (cystain C/Micro albumin). The two most common causes of kidney disease are uncontrolled blood pressure and diabetes. This takes years to cause damage though. (Decades).

Does he feel good or alright? He can trial 0.5 mg adex per week and go from there. I would not be overly concerned about the E2 though but at that level, some guys don't feel as good.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> Well on many compounds, so would like to check everything that would need to know, think its a full hormone panel?


 There is limited usefulness running labwork during a cycle to be honest with you.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Just want to know when it's out of the system so it won't make have an impact on test,estrogen,prolactin lvls.


 1-2 weeks.

For lipids, 8 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What are perhaps the top/more common 5 reasons for high blood pressure in those not taking AAS.


 1. Obesity

2. Stress

3. Poor cardiovascular fitness

4. Smoking/Pollution

5. Heart disease (atherosclerosis)


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Would you recommend eating oats for a bodybuilder/powerlifter?
> It looks really good for people in the sport , I stopped eating oats because of high levels of iron in it , but I started back days ago and Id like to keep with it.


 Maybe, maybe not.

It's a good starchy carb/slow digesting, but very filling. Many guys have a hard time getting in enough calories for bulking, so it may be too filling sometimes.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo also I wanted to thank you for all the replies/advices you post daily.

January 2019 , I had 13/8 blood pressure and never used to do cardio .

You advised me to do 3-6x a week some 20-25min cardio and I did and still do.

Results --> My blood pressure is at 11/6 , all my bloods are normal range apart from RBC/Hematocrit but I donate and take naringin so it's ok now and I'm on cruise dose all year long (200-250mg).

I never had that good blood pressure , and I'm on testosterone so I'm really happy with that and for your help.


----------



## NullPointer

@ElChapo Appreciate all the information you share on here been reading through all the pages over a couple nights.

I'm due to start another cycle soon after being off for over a year. With my last blast a year ago I used tren and got a bit of gyno that I have just started recently using Ralox (about two weeks in so far) but I have just got my pre cycle bloods back and my prolactin is still really high after a year of nothing while everything else has recovered pretty much.

Does prolactin not return to normal on it's own over a year off or could it be something to do with the Ralox I am taking? Cheers

View attachment 179559


----------



## Hosi

Hi @ElChapo

I have finished my 16 weeks cyckle with Test enan ( 600mg/week) and winstrol 50mg + Tudca. I eat healthy, use vitamins.

Blood results ( test was done after 24 hours rest of training):

ALT 65 U/L ( range 5 -41)

AST 64 U/L ( range 5 -37)

In last week of cyckle I was forced to take antybiotics because of flu.

What concern me the most is high ASO 1220 IU/ml ( range <200), after two weeks I repeated test and value was the same, I also did creatine kinase CK = 827 U/I ( range 30-200).

I take every day 5 g creatine and 5 g citruline - do you think that this could be the reason of high CK?

My traininig program is 4 times per week powerbuilding with cardio 15-20 min x 3 to 4 times per week.

Currently I dose 200 mg test e+ 100 mg masteron e / week, powerbuilding program 4x week ( and cardio).

What is your opinion about high CK? Please advice maybe with additional test to do?

What I could change with my supplementation? I need to add information that I don't need more than 3-4 hours of sleep. I have energy, focus, strength increase from week to week.


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> I would get the other labs for kidney function if he wants to confirm (cystain C/Micro albumin). The two most common causes of kidney disease are uncontrolled blood pressure and diabetes. This takes years to cause damage though. (Decades).
> 
> Does he feel good or alright? He can trial 0.5 mg adex per week and go from there. I would not be overly concerned about the E2 though but at that level, some guys don't feel as good.


 Ive told him if he wants to let oest run high during blasts then so be it but needs controlling during his cruises.

Ill pass that on to him regarding the renal tests.

Thanks mate


----------



## aaron118

Hi @El Chapo how would you compare a 12 week lean bulk of 50mg winstrol ED vs 20mg Superdrol ED (both along with 500mg Test E per week). I know you're a fan of both compounds, would there likely be much difference between the two? I've used Superdrol before to good effect but only ever at 4 weeks max. I know now that it can be run longer and will be running TUDCA and NAC alongside.

If lean enough and trying to keep as lean as possible throughout the 'lean bulk' (keeping the surplus 250/300 calories max) would you notice a big difference running Test P instead of Test E in terms of water retention? I've seen you recommend Test P before. What would the equivalent dose of say 500mg Test E be in Test P per week?

Would there be any harm in continuing to use Yohimbine for my fasted cardio during this period (used more as a preworkout)?

As many have stated before, I very much appreciate the time you take to answer all of our questions.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo also I wanted to thank you for all the replies/advices you post daily.
> 
> January 2019 , I had 13/8 blood pressure and never used to do cardio .
> 
> You advised me to do 3-6x a week some 20-25min cardio and I did and still do.
> 
> Results --> My blood pressure is at 11/6 , all my bloods are normal range apart from RBC/Hematocrit but I donate and take naringin so it's ok now and I'm on cruise dose all year long (200-250mg).
> 
> I never had that good blood pressure , and I'm on testosterone so I'm really happy with that and for your help.


 Glad to hear it brother, always makes my day. I will never feed you bullshit information.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> Eh??? Are u saying there is no point in getting a full blood count?


 No, i'm stating that the usefulness of blood work for prevention of medical issues on AAS is vastly overestimated by everyone. The real damage that AAS can cause is invisible in blood work. At best, you can catch acute liver toxicity (usually not a problem), elevated hematocrit and lipids. This stuff is the tip of the iceberg.

AAS can increase calcification and narrowing of arteries/blood vessels (invisible in blood work), heart structure changes/myopathies (Invisible in blood work), increase in clotting (invisible), arrythmias (invisible) etc etc etc. Blood work is giving most people a false sense of security. "My blood work is great!!!" this doesn't mean s**t. That's a fact and not an opinion.


----------



## ElChapo

NullPointer said:


> @ElChapo Appreciate all the information you share on here been reading through all the pages over a couple nights.
> 
> I'm due to start another cycle soon after being off for over a year. With my last blast a year ago I used tren and got a bit of gyno that I have just started recently using Ralox (about two weeks in so far) but I have just got my pre cycle bloods back and my prolactin is still really high after a year of nothing while everything else has recovered pretty much.
> 
> Does prolactin not return to normal on it's own over a year off or could it be something to do with the Ralox I am taking? Cheers
> 
> View attachment 179559
> 
> 
> View attachment 179561


 Possible, also TSH is borderline high. Before starting a cycle, check your Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine and Free T3. You might have hypothyroidism or subclinical hypothyroidism. This can also elevate prolactin.


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> I have finished my 16 weeks cyckle with Test enan ( 600mg/week) and winstrol 50mg + Tudca. I eat healthy, use vitamins.
> 
> Blood results ( test was done after 24 hours rest of training):
> 
> ALT 65 U/L ( range 5 -41)
> 
> AST 64 U/L ( range 5 -37)
> 
> In last week of cyckle I was forced to take antybiotics because of flu.
> 
> What concern me the most is high ASO 1220 IU/ml ( range <200), after two weeks I repeated test and value was the same, I also did creatine kinase CK = 827 U/I ( range 30-200).
> 
> I take every day 5 g creatine and 5 g citruline - do you think that this could be the reason of high CK?
> 
> My traininig program is 4 times per week powerbuilding with cardio 15-20 min x 3 to 4 times per week.
> 
> Currently I dose 200 mg test e+ 100 mg masteron e / week, powerbuilding program 4x week ( and cardio).
> 
> What is your opinion about high CK? Please advice maybe with additional test to do?
> 
> What I could change with my supplementation? I need to add information that I don't need more than 3-4 hours of sleep. I have energy, focus, strength increase from week to week.


 It could be due to training. It's normal with muscle damage, as is slight elevation in AST/ALT. You are probably fine.

Chronic use of CoQ10 can lower CK/muscle damage from exercise. When you take it for a while Your training schedule is fairly strenous, so your CK is not abnormal.

If you want to rule out heart issues, get an echocardiogram/ EKG to test heart function/structure.


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> Hi @El Chapo how would you compare a 12 week lean bulk of 50mg winstrol ED vs 20mg Superdrol ED (both along with 500mg Test E per week). I know you're a fan of both compounds, would there likely be much difference between the two? I've used Superdrol before to good effect but only ever at 4 weeks max. I know now that it can be run longer and will be running TUDCA and NAC alongside.
> 
> If lean enough and trying to keep as lean as possible throughout the 'lean bulk' (keeping the surplus 250/300 calories max) would you notice a big difference running Test P instead of Test E in terms of water retention? I've seen you recommend Test P before. What would the equivalent dose of say 500mg Test E be in Test P per week?
> 
> Would there be any harm in continuing to use Yohimbine for my fasted cardio during this period (used more as a preworkout)?
> 
> As many have stated before, I very much appreciate the time you take to answer all of our questions.


 Expect winstrol to make you dryer and superdrol to make you more pumped/3D. They are both excellent for cutting/bulking and very versatile/powerful compounds.

Yes, Test P = Less water retention in most people, no question at all. 300-400 mg test P = 500 mg Test E but you could just do 500 mg test P.

No harm, it MAY help keep you leaner actually. (keeping fat burning pathways/genes activated during the bulk)


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo.

Had my full blood results back,

my ferritin is really low at 12.7, range is 30-400. My last blood donation was middle of december just gone, but my Red blood count all came back in range so not anemic more towards iron deficiency, should i be eating more green veg and lean red meats? Maybe start supplementing with iron supplements and vit c for absorption? Currently eating aload of chicken as my protein sources instead of red meat.

My globulin came back a tad high at 37.8 and the range is 19-35?

My hdl was down too but ordered some niacin to start supplementing with to help that.

Many thanks mate.


----------



## zariph

Hi mate

If one dont get much accute sides from tren, how much damage will it cause long term on cardiovascular health compared to Deca?

Lets say one do 250 test + 250 tren, vs 250 test 600 deca - which one would be the harshest to run? Im debating whether to run tren or not - I really like the compound but Im not sure how much damage it will cause compared to other aas.

I know all steroids have side effects, im just not sure how bad tren is? Some people say stay away and think its very dangerous and stupid to run unless you are really advanced, other ppl says its fine as long as its being does 200-400mg, and 600-800mg deca will be just as bad for health as low dose tren?


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapogoing to give Yohimbine a go, i have a few pots of 15mg pills.

At the moment i am cutting using intermittent fasting, approx 18 hrs fast with 6 hrs feeding window.

Ill start doses low say 7.5mg for first day to see how i respond before getting up to target dose.

1. Should i take first dose in the morning then the other around 6 hrs later?

2. Do i really need to cardio fasted after the morning dose to see any results or can i take the doses split as above and still reap some of the rewards? I go to the gym first thing in the morning but other than short warm up dont really do cardio and i dont really have time to add on 30 mins or cardio each morning as i need to work early - my cardio is done in the evenings (a few times a week as i play sports).

3. How many weeks should i take Yohimbine before taking a break from it?


----------



## 90537

@El Chapo Hi mate,

Im thinking of running only light short blast for the future as my health is so important to me these days.

Im aware how damaging and the health implications they can pose but what in your opinion are the safest of all the steroids out there? Mainly Being the safest in regards to the heart, arteries/vessels and of course the kidneys?

Im looking at only ever using- Test prop, Tbol and anavar again and none of the 19nors or harsher orals.

Cheers buddy.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo.
> 
> Had my full blood results back,
> 
> my ferritin is really low at 12.7, range is 30-400. My last blood donation was middle of december just gone, but my Red blood count all came back in range so not anemic more towards iron deficiency, should i be eating more green veg and lean red meats? Maybe start supplementing with iron supplements and vit c for absorption? Currently eating aload of chicken as my protein sources instead of red meat.
> 
> My globulin came back a tad high at 37.8 and the range is 19-35?
> 
> My hdl was down too but ordered some niacin to start supplementing with to help that.
> 
> Many thanks mate.


 Insanely low and can cause mood problems and low energy/brain fog.

You can be extremely anemic and have perfect RBC/HCT. *You ARE extremely anemic.* Your ferritin is very low. You need to bring that up ASAP.

Order some iron biglycinate from now foods or amazon brand and some vitamin C. Take them together on empty stomach. Take 2-3 capsules for 8 weeks and re-test your ferritin.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hi mate
> 
> If one dont get much accute sides from tren, how much damage will it cause long term on cardiovascular health compared to Deca?
> 
> Lets say one do 250 test + 250 tren, vs 250 test 600 deca - which one would be the harshest to run? Im debating whether to run tren or not - I really like the compound but Im not sure how much damage it will cause compared to other aas.
> 
> I know all steroids have side effects, im just not sure how bad tren is? Some people say stay away and think its very dangerous and stupid to run unless you are really advanced, other ppl says its fine as long as its being does 200-400mg, and 600-800mg deca will be just as bad for health as low dose tren?


 Sides tell you absolutely nothing. The damage is caused inside the blood vessels and the heart structure. Narrowing/stiffening/calcification of the arteries and heart structure changes like hypertrophy and myopathy. Your best bet is to keep doing cardio exercise, limit cycle length/dose to reasonable levels, and control your blood pressure year round. Being lean helps too. No one can tell you if Tren or Deca are more damaging, it's all damaging at high enough doses/long enough use and your susceptibility depends on your genetics and your lifestyle. Some guys can use and abuse forever and get away with it and others will have issues even on lower doses.

I believe tren's danger is overrated but all AAS must be respected. Keep tren around 200-500 mg, that's the sweet spot for it for gains vs sides. Many pros only use 200 mg in their cycles because it's appetite and sleep reducing effects impair gains, training and quality of life.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapogoing to give Yohimbine a go, i have a few pots of 15mg pills.
> 
> At the moment i am cutting using intermittent fasting, approx 18 hrs fast with 6 hrs feeding window.
> 
> Ill start doses low say 7.5mg for first day to see how i respond before getting up to target dose.
> 
> 1. Should i take first dose in the morning then the other around 6 hrs later?
> 
> 2. Do i really need to cardio fasted after the morning dose to see any results or can i take the doses split as above and still reap some of the rewards? I go to the gym first thing in the morning but other than short warm up dont really do cardio and i dont really have time to add on 30 mins or cardio each morning as i need to work early - my cardio is done in the evenings (a few times a week as i play sports).
> 
> 3. How many weeks should i take Yohimbine before taking a break from it?


 I would cut the fast down a bit and increase the feeding window. Too long a fast is counter-productive and will make you hungrier sometimes, but it's up to you. I recommend skipping breakast be your fast, IE, break the fast around 11 AM-2 PM and don't obsess over feeding window. Just eat after 11-2 and hit your calories/macros = Burn fat/hit your goals

1. I recommend once daily in the morning and some fasted cardio. This burns a lot of extra fat but won't interfere with sleep. Adding more doses per day can affect sleep. Use the calculator to figure out your dosage but 15 mg is good for most people. http://yohimbine.emgsites.com/ (calculator here)

2. You will still reap benefits but fasted cardio loss has a strong fat burning boosting effect with yohimbine. You weight lifting counts as fasted training. Yohimbine does not work well if you take with food in your system. Do your morning gym workout with Yohimbine+EAA. The EAA will keep you in a fasted state AND preserve muscle. This is the original leangains method from the guy who truly pioneered Intermittent fasting, Martin Berkhan.

3. As long as you need to, no need to cycle it. It can enhance libido/erection strength but can also cause elevated BP/anxiety if you take too much or are sensitive. There may be a small withdrawal effect like when you stop stimulants/coffee.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @El Chapo Hi mate,
> 
> Im thinking of running only light short blast for the future as my health is so important to me these days.
> 
> Im aware how damaging and the health implications they can pose but what in your opinion are the safest of all the steroids out there? Mainly Being the safest in regards to the heart, arteries/vessels and of course the kidneys?
> 
> Im looking at only ever using- Test prop, Tbol and anavar again and none of the 19nors or harsher orals.
> 
> Cheers buddy.


 Dose and time on are more important than the AAS, as is doing regular cardiovascular exercise and controlling your blood pressure, staying lean.

Your best bets are testosterone and anavar. Fairly mild on the CV system. Most gains will come from your diet and training, it sounds cliche and said alot, but it's true. There are too many guys blasting strong AAS at high doses with poor gains to show for it due to poor nutrition/training. Tbol can work in place of anavar as well but i don't have much experience with it.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> I would cut the fast down a bit and increase the feeding window. Too long a fast is counter-productive and will make you hungrier sometimes, but it's up to you. I recommend skipping breakast be your fast, IE, break the fast around 11 AM-2 PM and don't obsess over feeding window. Just eat after 11-2 and hit your calories/macros = Burn fat/hit your goals
> 
> 1. I recommend once daily in the morning and some fasted cardio. This burns a lot of extra fat but won't interfere with sleep. Adding more doses per day can affect sleep. Use the calculator to figure out your dosage but 15 mg is good for most people. http://yohimbine.emgsites.com/ (calculator here)
> 
> 2. You will still reap benefits but fasted cardio loss has a strong fat burning boosting effect with yohimbine. You weight lifting counts as fasted training. Yohimbine does not work well if you take with food in your system. Do your morning gym workout with Yohimbine+EAA. The EAA will keep you in a fasted state AND preserve muscle. This is the original leangains method from the guy who truly pioneered Intermittent fasting, Martin Berkhan.
> 
> 3. As long as you need to, no need to cycle it. It can enhance libido/erection strength but can also cause elevated BP/anxiety if you take too much or are sensitive. There may be a small withdrawal effect like when you stop stimulants/coffee.


 Thanks for this bud, I'll get some eaa also never thought about that.

To be honest I'm finding the If feeding window very easy without any hunger pangs and it is work well round my work routine.

With that in mind I actually find u might only eat 2 meals in my feeding window which can someone times be as little as 3 hours apart.

Is there any truth in not being able to absorb all protein in 1 single meal if I am hitting my protein target in 4 to 5 hours at a time over 2 meals?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Insanely low and can cause mood problems and low energy/brain fog.
> 
> You can be extremely anemic and have perfect RBC/HCT. *You ARE extremely anemic.* Your ferritin is very low. You need to bring that up ASAP.
> 
> Order some iron biglycinate from now foods or amazon brand and some vitamin C. Take them together on empty stomach. Take 2-3 capsules for 8 weeks and re-test your ferritin.


 Thank you. I have purchased some liquid iron containing vit c called floridix il also look into the brand you suggested if this liquid iron doesn't do much, I will use the rest of this up and get a retest, I've also increased my red meat intake so its balanced with white meat.

What's your views on Niacin for cholesterol? My hdl came back a little lower and ldl over. Been reading up on niacin at 500mg per day and seen some research that long term use at that dose can cause liver damage after prolonged use. What's your views on this? Would you recommend cycling it and using it during cruises/trt or lowering the dose to 250mg a day?

Thanks again mate.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Thanks for this bud, I'll get some eaa also never thought about that.
> 
> To be honest I'm finding the If feeding window very easy without any hunger pangs and it is work well round my work routine.
> 
> With that in mind I actually find u might only eat 2 meals in my feeding window which can someone times be as little as 3 hours apart.
> 
> Is there any truth in not being able to absorb all protein in 1 single meal if I am hitting my protein target in 4 to 5 hours at a time over 2 meals?


 If it works for you and feel good, stick to it. Personally, i don't feel as satisfied when i eat if my fasting window is too long (past 2 PM) but we're all different with lifestyle, genetics, and diet.

That's fine. At the end of the it's 100% caloric deficit. That's literally the only factor that matters.

No, it's BS what they say about the absorption thing. In real practice, you will not find any difference or issue. It maybe be optimal to spread meals during a bulk for various reasons but for cutting, it's largely irrelevant.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Thank you. I have purchased some liquid iron containing vit c called floridix il also look into the brand you suggested if this liquid iron doesn't do much, I will use the rest of this up and get a retest, I've also increased my red meat intake so its balanced with white meat.
> 
> What's your views on Niacin for cholesterol? My hdl came back a little lower and ldl over. Been reading up on niacin at 500mg per day and seen some research that long term use at that dose can cause liver damage after prolonged use. What's your views on this? Would you recommend cycling it and using it during cruises/trt or lowering the dose to 250mg a day?
> 
> Thanks again mate.


 What kind of iron is in the liquid? Ferrous sulfate is the most common type but it can cause GI upset in some people, it works though.

I wouldn't count on the niacin too much, don't worry too much over cholesterol levels. Cardiovascular fitness, blood pressure control, and being lean are more important. I would not take supraphysiological doses of niacin myself, we don't know the long-term effects


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Sides tell you absolutely nothing. The damage is caused inside the blood vessels and the heart structure. Narrowing/stiffening/calcification of the arteries and heart structure changes like hypertrophy and myopathy. Your best bet is to keep doing cardio exercise, limit cycle length/dose to reasonable levels, and control your blood pressure year round. Being lean helps too. No one can tell you if Tren or Deca are more damaging, it's all damaging at high enough doses/long enough use and your susceptibility depends on your genetics and your lifestyle. Some guys can use and abuse forever and get away with it and others will have issues even on lower doses.
> 
> I believe tren's danger is overrated but all AAS must be respected. Keep tren around 200-500 mg, that's the sweet spot for it for gains vs sides. Many pros only use 200 mg in their cycles because it's appetite and sleep reducing effects impair gains, training and quality of life.


 Thank you for detailed answer - will keep tren low.

How much test you recommend to run with tren for muscle buildling? Will 250 be sufficient, or do you prefer higher test and little lower tren?

Do you recommend to run metformin or bromociptine with tren, or is this not needed?


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> If it works for you and feel good, stick to it. Personally, i don't feel as satisfied when i eat if my fasting window is too long (past 2 PM) but we're all different with lifestyle, genetics, and diet.
> 
> That's fine. At the end of the it's 100% caloric deficit. That's literally the only factor that matters.
> 
> No, it's BS what they say about the absorption thing. In real practice, you will not find any difference or issue. It maybe be optimal to spread meals during a bulk for various reasons but for cutting, it's largely irrelevant.


 amazing thanks mate - so as an argument you are saying *typically* if you eat 180g protein per day in 2 meals with a 4 hour gap between meal 1 and 2 will yield no additional muscle loss (due to insufficient protein in the blood stream to feed the muscles throughout the day) during a cut than if one was to split 180g protein over several meals throughout the day?


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

Why do many, including me, suffer with bouts of insomnia when dieting? Been cutting three weeks now, feel fine, just test and winny and feel great. But sleeps becoming an issue like it already does feel like t me. Weight is coming off fine so this is the only complaint

Cheers

Ps energy levels fine, not taking any stims or caffeine either


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> What kind of iron is in the liquid? Ferrous sulfate is the most common type but it can cause GI upset in some people, it works though.
> 
> I wouldn't count on the niacin too much, don't worry too much over cholesterol levels. Cardiovascular fitness, blood pressure control, and being lean are more important. I would not take supraphysiological doses of niacin myself, we don't know the long-term effects


 It contains ferrous gluconate, vitamins B2, B6, B12 and vitamin C.

my blood pressure is fine, I eat a fairly clean diet and have 1 day a week where I eat what I like on a bulk, self admittance my cardio could improve massively though.

My cholesterol is below, whats your thoughts on it? Currently running 120 test e a week cruise/trt.

TOTAL CHOLESTEROL


0 - 5 R​
4.68

mmol/L

LDL CHOLESTEROL


< 3 R​
3.25

mmol/L

NON HDL CHOLESTEROL


< 4 R​
3.78

mmol/L

HDL CHOLESTEROL


> 1.1 R​
0.9

mmol/L

TOTAL CHOLESTEROL : HDL


< 4 R​
5.2

ratio

TRIGLYCERIDES


< 1.7 R​
1.17

mmol/L

I think il leave the niacin then untill I've researched abit more on it as I've read it can cause liver damage in prolonged use and as you said theres not much studies on it yet for long term use.

cheers mate!


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you for detailed answer - will keep tren low.
> 
> How much test you recommend to run with tren for muscle buildling? Will 250 be sufficient, or do you prefer higher test and little lower tren?
> 
> Do you recommend to run metformin or bromociptine with tren, or is this not needed?


 Best would be 1:1 ratio, but it depends on the person. Some do well vice : versa. Trial and error is the best way to find out what you respond best to.

Some people find that dopamine agonists like bromo and caber/prami help with libido/mood issues on trenbolone. I wouldn't run them myself though, i don't like messing with neurotransmitters like that.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> amazing thanks mate - so as an argument you are saying *typically* if you eat 180g protein per day in 2 meals with a 4 hour gap between meal 1 and 2 will yield no additional muscle loss (due to insufficient protein in the blood stream to feed the muscles throughout the day) during a cut than if one was to split 180g protein over several meals throughout the day?


 Correct, this is how we evolved, otherwise we would be skeletons. Did our ancestors have refrigerators and tupperware for eat 6 times daily?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Why do many, including me, suffer with bouts of insomnia when dieting? Been cutting three weeks now, feel fine, just test and winny and feel great. But sleeps becoming an issue like it already does feel like t me. Weight is coming off fine so this is the only complaint
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ps energy levels fine, not taking any stims or caffeine either


 Great question.

I see this a lot of keto/low carb/carnivore diets. This happens because low carbs/low calories causes increase in adrenaline/cortisol aka the fight or flight system. Carbs increase serotonin/tryptophan levels in the brain which help you rest and relax. tryptophan is also a precursor of melatonin which helps you sleep. Getting enough carbs in a deficit will help you with this.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> It contains ferrous gluconate, vitamins B2, B6, B12 and vitamin C.
> 
> my blood pressure is fine, I eat a fairly clean diet and have 1 day a week where I eat what I like on a bulk, self admittance my cardio could improve massively though.
> 
> My cholesterol is below, whats your thoughts on it? Currently running 120 test e a week cruise/trt.
> 
> TOTAL CHOLESTEROL
> 
> 
> 0 - 5 R​
> 4.68
> 
> mmol/L
> 
> LDL CHOLESTEROL
> 
> 
> < 3 R​
> 3.25
> 
> mmol/L
> 
> NON HDL CHOLESTEROL
> 
> 
> < 4 R​
> 3.78
> 
> mmol/L
> 
> HDL CHOLESTEROL
> 
> 
> > 1.1 R​
> 0.9
> 
> mmol/L
> 
> TOTAL CHOLESTEROL : HDL
> 
> 
> < 4 R​
> 5.2
> 
> ratio
> 
> TRIGLYCERIDES
> 
> 
> < 1.7 R​
> 1.17
> 
> mmol/L
> 
> I think il leave the niacin then untill I've researched abit more on it as I've read it can cause liver damage in prolonged use and as you said theres not much studies on it yet for long term use.
> 
> cheers mate!


 It's low, lipids are overrated for cardio protection. Cardiovascular fitness/BP control/being lean is more important.


----------



## Djibril

Hello @ElChapo

With your guidance we've found that i need 25 mgs exemestane weekly for 250 mgs of test and hcg.

Im currently dieting, im at 15/16% planning getting to 12 before i blast.

I will run test/npp 500/600 mgs weekly for 10 weeks and had planned using winnie at 30 mgs for the first 6 weeks to see how it helps with progesterone.

Now i have 2 questions

-How would you dose the exemestane? How much more then what i use for 250 mgs test

- 2nd question would be about your opinion on using Winnie at 30 mgs the whole 10 weeks.

Regards


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> With your guidance we've found that i need 25 mgs exemestane weekly for 250 mgs of test and hcg.
> 
> Im currently dieting, im at 15/16% planning getting to 12 before i blast.
> 
> I will run test/npp 500/600 mgs weekly for 10 weeks and had planned using winnie at 30 mgs for the first 6 weeks to see how it helps with progesterone.
> 
> Now i have 2 questions
> 
> -How would you dose the exemestane? How much more then what i use for 250 mgs test
> 
> - 2nd question would be about your opinion on using Winnie at 30 mgs the whole 10 weeks.
> 
> Regards


 Perhaps i would run the 25 mg on 500 mg and increase to 50 mg if needed if symptoms arise.

I would bump winstrol to 50 mg and run it the 10 weeks, add TUDCA/NAC for liver insurance. Great, cheap and effective stack overall. (test/npp/winstrol)

Your gains should be very very good, as long as training/diet/recovery are on point. Glad to hear you figured out your optimal AI dose.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> It's low, lipids are overrated for cardio protection. Cardiovascular fitness/BP control/being lean is more important.


 What do you mean by its low mate, abit confused, is that good or bad? Like I stated my diet is fairly clean, my BP is fine, just need to add more to cardio. I'd say I'm around 15% according to the online calculator when I took measurements. You can see outline of top abs and the V so that could be better too I suppose.

Cheers mate


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Best would be 1:1 ratio, but it depends on the person. Some do well vice : versa. Trial and error is the best way to find out what you respond best to.
> 
> Some people find that dopamine agonists like bromo and caber/prami help with libido/mood issues on trenbolone. I wouldn't run them myself though, i don't like messing with neurotransmitters like that.


 Thx mate!

Which doses you recommend for beginner using tren, and what doses for a more advanced user?

Also lets say I have 300mg test ampule but only want to pin 150mg(0,5ml), what would you recommend doing with the rest 0,5ml?


----------



## aaron118

Hi again @El Chapo, would running Ralox on cycle hinder gains at all by way of lowering IGF-1 as Nolva can?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> What do you mean by its low mate, abit confused, is that good or bad? Like I stated my diet is fairly clean, my BP is fine, just need to add more to cardio. I'd say I'm around 15% according to the online calculator when I took measurements. You can see outline of top abs and the V so that could be better too I suppose.
> 
> Cheers mate


 Meant to say your HDL is low, which is not a good thing generally but again, the factors i mentioned will go the farthest to protecting your heart health.

Calcium scoring/Echocardiogram/EKG will tell you how your heart is doing NOT blood work. Period.

Being under 13% is even better for you.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx mate!
> 
> Which doses you recommend for beginner using tren, and what doses for a more advanced user?
> 
> Also lets say I have 300mg test ampule but only want to pin 150mg(0,5ml), what would you recommend doing with the rest 0,5ml?


 200-300 mg is a good starting dose. +500 mg for intermediate/advanced. Using an oral like superdrol/winstrol will strongly enhance your gains.

If you have ampoules, order some empty sterile vials online and suck the oil out of all the ampoules and inject into the vial. Now you can use as much as you want at any time.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Perhaps i would run the 25 mg on 500 mg and increase to 50 mg if needed if symptoms arise.
> 
> I would bump winstrol to 50 mg and run it the 10 weeks, add TUDCA/NAC for liver insurance. Great, cheap and effective stack overall. (test/npp/winstrol)
> 
> Your gains should be very very good, as long as training/diet/recovery are on point. Glad to hear you figured out your optimal AI dose.


 Thanks a lot mate will do so as you say.

Will do 10 weeks winnie at 40 mgs so i dont get an extra bottle right now


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> Hi again @El Chapo, would running Ralox on cycle hinder gains at all by way of lowering IGF-1 as Nolva can?


 It usually does not hinder gains, but if running deca/tren, ralox does not work that well.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 200-300 mg is a good starting dose. +500 mg for intermediate/advanced. Using an oral like superdrol/winstrol will strongly enhance your gains.
> 
> If you have ampoules, order some empty sterile vials online and suck the oil out of all the ampoules and inject into the vial. Now you can use as much as you want at any time.


 Oke great.

if i cant get hold of empty vials - would it be okay to just store half of the oil in a syringe and store it until next pin, or could there be any infection risk by doing this.

btw if training fasted, would you recommend hbcd or is it fine just to have a protein shake before and after and then just carbs few hours later?

will a banana pre do the same as taking hbcd intra?


----------



## delbo

During a lean bulk would you prefer npp 400mg or tren ace 200mg? Stacked with test e and sdrol...


----------



## Necrotising

ElChapo said:


> 200-300 mg is a good starting dose. +500 mg for intermediate/advanced. Using an oral like superdrol/winstrol will strongly enhance your gains.
> 
> If you have ampoules, order some empty sterile vials online and suck the oil out of all the ampoules and inject into the vial. Now you can use as much as you want at any time.


 Hi @ElChapo, can suprdrol be ran for 10 weeks along side Ttm, im planning on doing a 15 week cycle Ttm @250ml each and suprdrol and or Anavar, would you please advise me on which to run and at what dose please , a general guide would be great the suprdrol or anavar or both,I am after leaning up for june holiday, done lots of cycles been training 40 years, I'm 57 and in good shape and good cardio and diet. Never used superdrol but the others on various cycles. Many thanks.


----------



## Redsy

Hi Elchapo.....making great progress, recovered from hernia and rotator cuff injuries well from your advice, thanks!!!

1 Got some bloods back from gp. Alt levels 1-3 mine 3.1.

Platelets also same, 1-3, mine 3.1.

Was few after mild DHB/test/winny cycle. That to be expected?

2 Wanting to drop some weight and get cardio amazing to ride bike.

Am running test p 150/WK....

Occasionally, winny or anavar pre workout.

Clen/ephedrine/caffeine pre workout.

Anything drug wise to increase cardio or just training. EPO too dangerous for me.

I train on bike hard at threshold HR or intervals on bike for hour, then do a basic 3-5*5 strength work out. 4-5*/WK.

3 running HGH for recovery and fatloss. Run 4iu 3/WK. So 12 iu.

Better jabbing all HGH in morning? Or at night? Or 2iu at night, 2 in morning?

4 I have 12 weeks before a cycling trip.....what drug use you'd advise in that period so am best possible on bike 12 weeks from now?

Many thanks


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Meant to say your HDL is low, which is not a good thing generally but again, the factors i mentioned will go the farthest to protecting your heart health.
> 
> Calcium scoring/Echocardiogram/EKG will tell you how your heart is doing NOT blood work. Period.
> 
> Being under 13% is even better for you.


 Its the first time its been low, so will step up my cardio to try and help it get better.

Would you recommend any supplements to help the hdl get higher? Besides the obvious cardio.

I have been taking citrus bergamot for the last 6 months at 500mg a day.

My last yearly full bloods last March showed my lipids were all fine I've only done one blast since then which was 600 test for 12 weeks and var for the first 4 at 50mg up untill August iirc last year and cruised ever since on trt dosages which I find strange how my hdl has lowered

I had a ECG last summer too and that was fine will get another this summer as I'm making that a yearly thing too.

Thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Oke great.
> 
> if i cant get hold of empty vials - would it be okay to just store half of the oil in a syringe and store it until next pin, or could there be any infection risk by doing this.
> 
> btw if training fasted, would you recommend hbcd or is it fine just to have a protein shake before and after and then just carbs few hours later?
> 
> will a banana pre do the same as taking hbcd intra?


 You can keep the oil in the syringe too.

No i don't recommend that. You don't need that stuff. If you have protein before or hbcd during, then it's not fasted training anymore.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> During a lean bulk would you prefer npp 400mg or tren ace 200mg? Stacked with test e and sdrol...


 Tren ace would be dryer. It depends on your response. Some guys respond very well to tren or npp. You could also stack the two together


----------



## ElChapo

Necrotising said:


> Hi @ElChapo, can suprdrol be ran for 10 weeks along side Ttm, im planning on doing a 15 week cycle Ttm @250ml each and suprdrol and or Anavar, would you please advise me on which to run and at what dose please , a general guide would be great the suprdrol or anavar or both,I am after leaning up for june holiday, done lots of cycles been training 40 years, I'm 57 and in good shape and good cardio and diet. Never used superdrol but the others on various cycles. Many thanks.


 You can, i would run TUDCA/NAC at 500/1000 mg respectively for liver protection.


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> Hi Elchapo.....making great progress, recovered from hernia and rotator cuff injuries well from your advice, thanks!!!
> 
> 1 Got some bloods back from gp. Alt levels 1-3 mine 3.1.
> 
> Platelets also same, 1-3, mine 3.1.
> 
> Was few after mild DHB/test/winny cycle. That to be expected?
> 
> 2 Wanting to drop some weight and get cardio amazing to ride bike.
> 
> Am running test p 150/WK....
> 
> Occasionally, winny or anavar pre workout.
> 
> Clen/ephedrine/caffeine pre workout.
> 
> Anything drug wise to increase cardio or just training. EPO too dangerous for me.
> 
> I train on bike hard at threshold HR or intervals on bike for hour, then do a basic 3-5*5 strength work out. 4-5*/WK.
> 
> 3 running HGH for recovery and fatloss. Run 4iu 3/WK. So 12 iu.
> 
> Better jabbing all HGH in morning? Or at night? Or 2iu at night, 2 in morning?
> 
> 4 I have 12 weeks before a cycling trip.....what drug use you'd advise in that period so am best possible on bike 12 weeks from now?
> 
> Many thanks


 Splitting HGH dose multiple times daily increases the IGF-1 increase. The way you are taking it is the way the track and field people were running in the American olympic team. (x 3 per week at your dosage). Too much HGH can slow you down from the extra water/nitrogen/glycogen/weight. Pharmacokinetics are best with SQ abdominal around evening/bedtime from the studies.

I'm not heavy into the endurance training scene but i've heard Meldonium is good for improving endurance. Low dose testosterone and winstrol should work though.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Its the first time its been low, so will step up my cardio to try and help it get better.
> 
> Would you recommend any supplements to help the hdl get higher? Besides the obvious cardio.
> 
> I have been taking citrus bergamot for the last 6 months at 500mg a day.
> 
> My last yearly full bloods last March showed my lipids were all fine I've only done one blast since then which was 600 test for 12 weeks and var for the first 4 at 50mg up untill August iirc last year and cruised ever since on trt dosages which I find strange how my hdl has lowered
> 
> I had a ECG last summer too and that was fine will get another this summer as I'm making that a yearly thing too.
> 
> Thanks mate


 TRT can lower your HDL, and your sensitivity to this effect is genetic, but dosage also matters. Higher dosed TRT will lower HDL.

If the ECG looks good, and calcium scoring then you are fine. I'm not into messing with lipids via supplementation or medications, we don't know what possible down stream effects it may have. Statins are linked to many health issues and side effects.

https://kellybroganmd.com/cracking-cholesterol-myth-statins-harm-body-mind/?fbclid=IwAR3KWDyAU0Nfg2Exk8WViVX61wkuU-lRdVGxSHDniLmlhZTwfsNzD89FB4I


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> TRT can lower your HDL, and your sensitivity to this effect is genetic, but dosage also matters. Higher dosed TRT will lower HDL.
> 
> If the ECG looks good, and calcium scoring then you are fine. I'm not into messing with lipids via supplementation or medications, we don't know what possible down stream effects it may have. Statins are linked to many health issues and side effects.
> 
> https://kellybroganmd.com/cracking-cholesterol-myth-statins-harm-body-mind/?fbclid=IwAR3KWDyAU0Nfg2Exk8WViVX61wkuU-lRdVGxSHDniLmlhZTwfsNzD89FB4I


 Currently using 120mg test e every 7 days?

Brilliant stuff will have a read of the link when I finish work.

Thank you for the help mate, much appreciated, guaranteed il need your expertise in future though haha!

Thanks again.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> You can keep the oil in the syringe too.
> 
> No i don't recommend that. You don't need that stuff. If you have protein before or hbcd during, then it's not fasted training anymore.


 Nice, for how long can it stay in syringe?

I think you misunderstood my second questions - I can ask this way, what do you suggest for muscle growth as far as carbs/protein pre or intra, compared to working out fasted...If its better to have some carbs pre or intra, what do you recommend, fruit pre or HBCD etc?


----------



## FatScrub

@Lloyd H, @ElChapo

Thank you both for the comments regarding Ferritin. Mine is on 18. Been having all the symptoms like low energy, shitty moods, brain fog for 2 years. Gona try your suggestions and post up the results.

Edit: I should mention that all my symptoms started after a stomach bug


----------



## Conscript

Hi El Chapo

I remember years ago on datbtrue forum. Quite a few people on there recommended drinking fruit teas containing hibiscus to lower blood pressure.

Is this something you believe is grounded in medical studies?

cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Currently using 120mg test e every 7 days?
> 
> Brilliant stuff will have a read of the link when I finish work.
> 
> Thank you for the help mate, much appreciated, guaranteed il need your expertise in future though haha!
> 
> Thanks again.


 No problem

Try splitting that to 60 mg x 2 per week. Lower spike and trough, less side effects.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice, for how long can it stay in syringe?
> 
> I think you misunderstood my second questions - I can ask this way, what do you suggest for muscle growth as far as carbs/protein pre or intra, compared to working out fasted...If its better to have some carbs pre or intra, what do you recommend, fruit pre or HBCD etc?


 I would use it within a month, if not then i would empty into a sterile vial.

Nothing is different when you train fasted. You basically just skip breakfast, otherwise everything else is identical.


----------



## ElChapo

FatOld said:


> @Lloyd H, @ElChapo
> 
> Thank you both for the comments regarding Ferritin. Mine is on 18. Been having all the symptoms like low energy, shitty moods, brain fog for 2 years. Gona try your suggestions and post up the results.
> 
> Edit: I should mention that all my symptoms started after a stomach bug


 Get that up to 70-100 and you will feel like a new man. Brain function, energy and mood will improve drastically. Your body needs iron for proper dopamine function in the brain and oxygen to brain/muscles/etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Conscript said:


> Hi El Chapo
> 
> I remember years ago on datbtrue forum. Quite a few people on there recommended drinking fruit teas containing hibiscus to lower blood pressure.
> 
> Is this something you believe is grounded in medical studies?
> 
> cheers.


 Eh, i wouldn't count on it. The best natural remedy to hypertension i have found is getting under 13% body fat and doing regular cardio 3-6 x per week.


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

@ElChapo I've done a routine bloodwork because I'm feeling quite fatigued lately. My hematocrit is quite high at 52.3%. I've also noticed my TSH and free T4 is seriously low, they haven't mentioned this and haven't tested my T3. My TSH is at 0.43 mU/l and free T4 at 0.6 ng/dl. Should I be concerned? Could this also be the cause of my fatigue? What should I get checked?


----------



## MrGRoberts

Hi @El Chapo hope you're good.

Heres my recent blood results. Been taking 200mg Test E injected once a week for a few months now.

Been taking 12.5mg Aromasin a day after my jab. Shall I increase that to 25mg? My sex drive ain't the best.

The only other thing I'm taking is 50mg Proviron per day.

Why is my prolactin so high? The last time I took tren or NPP is a year ago at least.

Also why is my PSA (Prostate) so high? Is this to be concerned about? How do I lower it?

Thanks bro


----------



## Djibril

Hello @El Chapo

Ive been running raloxifene for 10 weeks and ill be doing a 12 week course.

Was just wondering how long after i stop raloxifene will it be ok to test for my E2 levels? As you have told me before that ralox can interfere with e2 levels.

Reason i want to test my E2 is because im starting a blast soon and want to know wheres my e2 with my current AI dose


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I would use it within a month, if not then i would empty into a sterile vial.
> 
> Nothing is different when you train fasted. You basically just skip breakfast, otherwise everything else is identical.


 Okay, so what you are saying is that there is no difference at all, if I just wait to have a meal after the workout? Intra/pre nutrition wont be better for buidling muscle, as long as you hit you macros later in the day its just as good?

Btw, will it make any difference to pin test e once a week, or do you prefer twice - and npp+test prop is it fine just to do M/W/F or woul you suggest EOD?


----------



## Ironman TS

Absolutely fantastic thread this, nothing but respect for the people who've taken the time to respond to so many questions over the years.

Quick nutrition question for @El Chapo following on from the previous protein digestion one. What are your thoughts on protein quality from whole foods vs supplements/powders? Many will have jobs where it's nigh on impossible to eat enough meals to hit required macros without supplementation.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

Just a quick question. I love watching people move hevag weight, and watch loads of pros. I like Johnnie Jackson, but what that actual fk is he doing training wise? Is this just for show? Never does a slow rep, never does full range of motion and only does deaskufts "correctly". Link attached if you aren't familiar with his and Branch Warrens style, it's the opposite of what anyone would say is effective, so why are the big? Just genetics and the way the respond to aas and ANY stimulas? If so, why wouldn't they switch to a Charles Glass style approach and win shows.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/tv/B8wFc6WJaea/?igshid=1qw31tpbhohuy

Just curious.

Ps. I've seen powerful squats and bench presses done with high tempo in local gyms which just require awesome power, but it's always full rom, never what you'll see in the clip. Mental.


----------



## GolfDelta

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Just a quick question. I love watching people move hevag weight, and watch loads of pros. I like Johnnie Jackson, but what that actual fk is he doing training wise? Is this just for show? Never does a slow rep, never does full range of motion and only does deaskufts "correctly". Link attached if you aren't familiar with his and Branch Warrens style, it's the opposite of what anyone would say is effective, so why are the big? Just genetics and the way the respond to aas and ANY stimulas? If so, why wouldn't they switch to a Charles Glass style approach and win shows.
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/tv/B8wFc6WJaea/?igshid=1qw31tpbhohuy
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Ps. I've seen powerful squats and bench presses done with high tempo in local gyms which just require awesome power, but it's always full rom, never what you'll see in the clip. Mental.


 Jackson is a former power lifter and no doubt is immensely strong and could lift with immaculate form if he wanted to, he obviously prefers this style of training. Worth bearing in mind a lot of pro BBs physiques were built training with great form, doing heavy compounds, then as they get further in their career they adjust their workouts to maintain that mass, focus on weak areas and importantly, minimise injury risk. Like when you watch a pro BB workout on YouTube and they basically pump up using a few dumbbell movements then every machine in the gym, at a certain stage it's more about maintaining mass whilst dieting rather than building new mass. I know you asked @El Chapo but thought I'd chip in!


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @ElChapo I've done a routine bloodwork because I'm feeling quite fatigued lately. My hematocrit is quite high at 52.3%. I've also noticed my TSH and free T4 is seriously low, they haven't mentioned this and haven't tested my T3. My TSH is at 0.43 mU/l and free T4 at 0.6 ng/dl. Should I be concerned? Could this also be the cause of my fatigue? What should I get checked?


 Severe hypothyroidism. Most doctors are clueless in this area. You badly need thyroid replacement.

It is the cause of your fatigue and symptoms. PM me if you need assistance.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Hi @El Chapo hope you're good.
> 
> Heres my recent blood results. Been taking 200mg Test E injected once a week for a few months now.
> 
> Been taking 12.5mg Aromasin a day after my jab. Shall I increase that to 25mg? My sex drive ain't the best.
> 
> The only other thing I'm taking is 50mg Proviron per day.
> 
> Why is my prolactin so high? The last time I took tren or NPP is a year ago at least.
> 
> Also why is my PSA (Prostate) so high? Is this to be concerned about? How do I lower it?
> 
> Thanks bro
> 
> View attachment 179885


 Estradiol looks fine, increasing or decreasing AI might help. You have to experiment.

Did you ejactulate before the blood draw within 12-24 hours? This can elevate both PSA and prolactin.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @El Chapo
> 
> Ive been running raloxifene for 10 weeks and ill be doing a 12 week course.
> 
> Was just wondering how long after i stop raloxifene will it be ok to test for my E2 levels? As you have told me before that ralox can interfere with e2 levels.
> 
> Reason i want to test my E2 is because im starting a blast soon and want to know wheres my e2 with my current AI dose


 1 week should be enough, half life is only about a day.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay, so what you are saying is that there is no difference at all, if I just wait to have a meal after the workout? Intra/pre nutrition wont be better for buidling muscle, as long as you hit you macros later in the day its just as good?
> 
> Btw, will it make any difference to pin test e once a week, or do you prefer twice - and npp+test prop is it fine just to do M/W/F or woul you suggest EOD?


 Don't overthink these things. Once or twice weekly and intra-workout nutrition is not going to make significant difference in results. Keep it simple.


----------



## ElChapo

Ironman TS said:


> Absolutely fantastic thread this, nothing but respect for the people who've taken the time to respond to so many questions over the years.
> 
> Quick nutrition question for @El Chapo following on from the previous protein digestion one. What are your thoughts on protein quality from whole foods vs supplements/powders? Many will have jobs where it's nigh on impossible to eat enough meals to hit required macros without supplementation.


 Simple, for cutting; whole food protein is superior for satiety purposes; keeping you fuller/satisfied better and for longer.

For bulking; for those who have trouble getting enough calories in, liquid protein is superior as it will not fill you up as much.

In terms of gains, it's the same s**t. Pick either one for preference.


----------



## dfwfreg

I'm taking T3/T4 due to slow thyroid, is it important to keep an eye at the TSH range while supplementing with T3 and T4?

At the moment 37,5 T3 and 150 T4 put me at 3.78 T3 and 1.04 T4, so middle-upper range, but the TSH is at 0,01, some says that is better to keep it at least at 1 others says to just look at FT3 and FT4, what's your take on it?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Just a quick question. I love watching people move hevag weight, and watch loads of pros. I like Johnnie Jackson, but what that actual fk is he doing training wise? Is this just for show? Never does a slow rep, never does full range of motion and only does deaskufts "correctly". Link attached if you aren't familiar with his and Branch Warrens style, it's the opposite of what anyone would say is effective, so why are the big? Just genetics and the way the respond to aas and ANY stimulas? If so, why wouldn't they switch to a Charles Glass style approach and win shows.
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/tv/B8wFc6WJaea/?igshid=1qw31tpbhohuy
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Ps. I've seen powerful squats and bench presses done with high tempo in local gyms which just require awesome power, but it's always full rom, never what you'll see in the clip. Mental.


 There is no correct way to gain muscle and strength. As long as progressive overload and caloric surplus is there, muscle will grow bigger and stronger.

Also, what people do for instagram, videos and magazines is not often what they actually do for training. You see this all the time with celebrities and IG famous people. So take what you see with a grain of salt.


----------



## ElChapo

dfwfreg said:


> I'm taking T3/T4 due to slow thyroid, is it important to keep an eye at the TSH range while supplementing with T3 and T4?
> 
> At the moment 37,5 T3 and 150 T4 put me at 3.78 T3 and 1.04 T4, so middle-upper range, but the TSH is at 0,01, some says that is better to keep it at least at 1 others says to just look at FT3 and FT4, what's your take on it?
> 
> Thanks


 No, TSH is useless. Not accurate. Imagine using LH/FSH for testing Testosterone. Same thing.

That's way too much T3. Give me your units. Is free T4 ng/dL and Free T3 pg/mL?

Are you taking in the morning with empty stomach and waiting 1 hour?


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> There is no correct way to gain muscle and strength. As long as progressive overload and caloric surplus is there, muscle will grow bigger and stronger.
> 
> Also, what people do for instagram, videos and magazines is not often what they actually do for training. You see this all the time with celebrities and IG famous people. So take what you see with a grain of salt.


 Out of curiosity, what was the training routine you've ran that seen you with the most amount of muscle?


----------



## dfwfreg

ElChapo said:


> No, TSH is useless. Not accurate. Imagine using LH/FSH for testing Testosterone. Same thing.
> 
> That's way too much T3. Give me your units. Is free T4 ng/dL and Free T3 pg/mL?
> 
> Are you taking in the morning with empty stomach and waiting 1 hour?


 Yes,

FT3: 3,78 pg/mL range of my lab is: 2,6-5,4

FT4: 1,04 ng/dL range of my lab is: 0,55-1,2

These values while taking 37,5 T3 and 150 T4 all pharma grade

Morning on empty stomach half an hour before eating.

Is there margin to increase something or should I be good to go with these values? I'd like to bump up the T3 a little bit, but 50 would probably be overkill

Compared to when I've had hypothyroidism I feel great, but if there's still some margin to try an increase I would do it.


----------



## Robbie

Just got my mid cycle test results back, my red blood cells is a bit of a shock so I'm going to donate on Monday. My Iron is high and ferritin low, any thoughts on what I can do to fix that? I'm concerned that giving blood is going to tank my ferritin, but eating more iron doesn't sound like a good idea either?

HAEMOGLOBIN 193 g/L, HAEMATOCRIT 0.556 L/L, Red Cell Count 5.96

IRON 30.69 umol/L FERRITIN 59.1 ug/L

Also my OESTRADIOL @ 247 pmol/L is high, I don't usually take an AI as I don't have any noticable side effects. I've got AIs in my drawer though, any thoughts on how much of what to get it in range (if I need to at all).

I've been taking IP6 @ 1.5g per day after reading Dante Trudel talk about it to reduce red blood issues, assuming it hasn't made much difference though! Any thing else I can look at?

Cycle is 300 test, 500 deca, 200 mast.

Thanks


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Estradiol looks fine, increasing or decreasing AI might help. You have to experiment.
> 
> Did you ejactulate before the blood draw within 12-24 hours? This can elevate both PSA and prolactin.


 I can feel my right nipple gyno flaring up on only 12.5 aromasin.

yes I probably did that explains that then lol


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Out of curiosity, what was the training routine you've ran that seen you with the most amount of muscle?


 Combination of strength focus compound and volume focused isolation, basically combining powerlifting with bodybuilding style training.


----------



## ElChapo

dfwfreg said:


> Yes,
> 
> FT3: 3,78 pg/mL range of my lab is: 2,6-5,4
> 
> FT4: 1,04 ng/dL range of my lab is: 0,55-1,2
> 
> These values while taking 37,5 T3 and 150 T4 all pharma grade
> 
> Morning on empty stomach half an hour before eating.
> 
> Is there margin to increase something or should I be good to go with these values? I'd like to bump up the T3 a little bit, but 50 would probably be overkill
> 
> Compared to when I've had hypothyroidism I feel great, but if there's still some margin to try an increase I would do it.


 You should wait a full hour.

That Free T4 needs to be between 1.5-1.8 ng/dL . If you feel hyper after you do that, decrease T3 dose. That's a lot of T3. Try 200 mcg T4.


----------



## ElChapo

Robbie said:


> Just got my mid cycle test results back, my red blood cells is a bit of a shock so I'm going to donate on Monday. My Iron is high and ferritin low, any thoughts on what I can do to fix that? I'm concerned that giving blood is going to tank my ferritin, but eating more iron doesn't sound like a good idea either?
> 
> HAEMOGLOBIN 193 g/L, HAEMATOCRIT 0.556 L/L, Red Cell Count 5.96
> 
> IRON 30.69 umol/L FERRITIN 59.1 ug/L
> 
> Also my OESTRADIOL @ 247 pmol/L is high, I don't usually take an AI as I don't have any noticable side effects. I've got AIs in my drawer though, any thoughts on how much of what to get it in range (if I need to at all).
> 
> I've been taking IP6 @ 1.5g per day after reading Dante Trudel talk about it to reduce red blood issues, assuming it hasn't made much difference though! Any thing else I can look at?
> 
> Cycle is 300 test, 500 deca, 200 mast.
> 
> Thanks


 Your ferritin is alright but it will drop if you donate blood. You want ferritin above 60 at least. You will need to supplement iron if you donate. People with HCT issues usually have sleep apnea and/or a genetic sensitivity to RBC production increase from testosterone

If you feel fine, don't take AI. Your E2 is fine and normal for the amount of testosterone you are taking.

Not sure that Ip6 does anything, from the data i reviewed i believe i recall that it's useless for HCT.


----------



## Robbie

ElChapo said:


> Your ferritin is alright but it will drop if you donate blood. You want ferritin above 60 at least. You will need to supplement iron if you donate. People with HCT issues usually have sleep apnea and/or a genetic sensitivity to RBC production increase from testosterone
> 
> If you feel fine, don't take AI. Your E2 is fine and normal for the amount of testosterone you are taking.
> 
> Not sure that Ip6 does anything, from the data i reviewed i believe i recall that it's useless for HCT.


 Awesome thanks, I think mine is sensitivity although I have something coming today so I can check my sleep.

I think the idea with IP6 is to chelate iron, its a recent Dante Trudel recommendation which I know doesn't always mean it's legit!


----------



## ElChapo

Robbie said:


> Awesome thanks, I think mine is sensitivity although I have something coming today so I can check my sleep.
> 
> I think the idea with IP6 is to chelate iron, its a recent Dante Trudel recommendation which I know doesn't always mean it's legit!


 It's a dumb way to tackle the issue. It's not iron causing the elevated RBC.


----------



## Robbie

ElChapo said:


> It's a dumb way to tackle the issue. It's not iron causing the elevated RBC.


 I'm going to dig my DNA test results out and see if I can find any SNPs that relate to RBC.

Other than donating, is there anything else I can do to keep on top of it?


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo would love to see a typical training plan you would follow when trying to grow


----------



## ElChapo

Robbie said:


> I'm going to dig my DNA test results out and see if I can find any SNPs that relate to RBC.
> 
> Other than donating, is there anything else I can do to keep on top of it?


 Get tested for sleep apnea, this is the most common cause of elevated RBC. If you have sleep apnea, best option is fat loss to get very lean and switch to testosterone propionate seems to help with apnea as well. More frequent injections may also help.

If donating, make sure to heavily supplement iron to replenish ferritin stores. Low ferritin can cause mood problems, brain fog, fatigue and weakness.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo testosterone is good for strength cycle ?

For exemple i want to go up to 350mg test for 12 weeks , I'm on 250mg atm but I don't make any progress in term of strength , I'm already in a caloric surplus but no more progress since some time already.

So I'd like to up it to 350mg , the best would be to take an oral like Tbol or anavar but I think I'm done with those , my body doesn't like them and I feel lethargic all day long so I'm thinking of upping test to 350mg.

Not sure I'll feel it going from 250 to 350mg , what do you think?


----------



## Robbie

ElChapo said:


> Get tested for sleep apnea, this is the most common cause of elevated RBC. If you have sleep apnea, best option is fat loss to get very lean and switch to testosterone propionate seems to help with apnea as well. More frequent injections may also help.
> 
> If donating, make sure to heavily supplement iron to replenish ferritin stores. Low ferritin can cause mood problems, brain fog, fatigue and weakness.


 Cheers, one of these arrived today https://www.ukcpap.co.uk/sleep-test-silver.php so I'll be testing myself. I snore good, but don't have the sleepy symptoms of apnea but I'll find out in a few days!


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo testosterone is good for strength cycle ?
> 
> For exemple i want to go up to 350mg test for 12 weeks , I'm on 250mg atm but I don't make any progress in term of strength , I'm already in a caloric surplus but no more progress since some time already.
> 
> So I'd like to up it to 350mg , the best would be to take an oral like Tbol or anavar but I think I'm done with those , my body doesn't like them and I feel lethargic all day long so I'm thinking of upping test to 350mg.
> 
> Not sure I'll feel it going from 250 to 350mg , what do you think?


 Are you adding 2.5-5 lbs as often as possible to your lifts?? or trying to increase the reps every time by 1-2?

AAS are not meant to make you feel good. Feeling lethargic and shitty is the price to pay for gains in muscle and strength. One of the hardest parts of the game and stuffing your face when you've had enough food but still need to hit your calories/macros. Sacrifice is required to achieve greatness.

If you want very good gains, at least 500 mg testosterone, add a 19-nor like deca/tren and an oral like superdrol or winstrol. Anavar can work too.

Your question depends on : How badly do you want it and what are your goals? Only you can answer that.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Are you adding 2.5-5 lbs as often as possible to your lifts?? or trying to increase the reps every time by 1-2?
> 
> AAS are not meant to make you feel good. Feeling lethargic and shitty is the price to pay for gains in muscle and strength. One of the hardest parts of the game and stuffing your face when you've had enough food but still need to hit your calories/macros. Sacrifice is required to achieve greatness.
> 
> If you want very good gains, at least 500 mg testosterone, add a 19-nor like deca/tren and an oral like superdrol or winstrol. Anavar can work too.
> 
> Your question depends on : How badly do you want it and what are your goals? Only you can answer that.


 yea , I do 5x5 and add 5lb / week , I have strength program but it seems like I'm at my maximum strength for my size .

Maybe going up to 500mg test for 12 weeks will help , ofc I eat a surplus and good food.

thanks


----------



## Mrmotivator

@El Chapo

Please could you provide any information on how "best" to run insulin and how to remain as safe as physically possible?

I must admit I have done little research on it myself and would love if you could send useful links or information around insulin.

I'm purely curious at this point and don't plan on running it anytime soon

Many thanks


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo So after much experimenting I believe I've found what's making my physique so watery atm. I tried a metformin at 500mg before bed and pretty much overnight my physique changed abs more defined muscles fuller etc.

Have I become massively insulin resistant due to eating so many carbs (700g+ most Days)?

my dad, And both of his parents are type 1 and 2 diabetic btw.

is metformin best to use to counter this or is there an otc supplement?

or would it best to just use insulin during bulking phases?

my gains stalled massively and I believe this is probably why


----------



## jj1996

Finishing up a 20 week cycle 500 test 500 npp bulk cycle (like you suggested, going ace btw!). Would like to either swap npp for 350 tren for 8 weeks or just add sdrol to the current stack 20mg for 4-6 weeks.

what should net me the most gains?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> yea , I do 5x5 and add 5lb / week , I have strength program but it seems like I'm at my maximum strength for my size .
> 
> Maybe going up to 500mg test for 12 weeks will help , ofc I eat a surplus and good food.
> 
> thanks


 5x5 sucks

Switch to 3 x 5 and watch your gains come back. Trust me


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo So after much experimenting I believe I've found what's making my physique so watery atm. I tried a metformin at 500mg before bed and pretty much overnight my physique changed abs more defined muscles fuller etc.
> 
> Have I become massively insulin resistant due to eating so many carbs (700g+ most Days)?
> 
> my dad, And both of his parents are type 1 and 2 diabetic btw.
> 
> is metformin best to use to counter this or is there an otc supplement?
> 
> or would it best to just use insulin during bulking phases?
> 
> my gains stalled massively and I believe this is probably why


 Have you tested your A1C?

Of course you will be watery on that many carbs, diabetic or not.

You could try metformin or insulin. I would only try insulin if you have a lot of muscle mass and an advanced bodybuilder.


----------



## ElChapo

Mrmotivator said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Please could you provide any information on how "best" to run insulin and how to remain as safe as physically possible?
> 
> I must admit I have done little research on it myself and would love if you could send useful links or information around insulin.
> 
> I'm purely curious at this point and don't plan on running it anytime soon
> 
> Many thanks


 Stick to fast acting insulin, use it after your meals. Should only be used at bedtime if your meal is big enough to support it. If taking it pre-workout, you must make sure you have intra-workout nutrition/food so you don't go hypo glycemic.

Only recommend insulin for advanced bodybuilders


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Finishing up a 20 week cycle 500 test 500 npp bulk cycle (like you suggested, going ace btw!). Would like to either swap npp for 350 tren for 8 weeks or just add sdrol to the current stack 20mg for 4-6 weeks.
> 
> what should net me the most gains?


 Add superdrol to the current stack, . Take it for 8 full weeks. you will explode.

Run NAC/TUDCA if concerned about liver Health.


----------



## strawberry123

ElChapo said:


> Have you tested your A1C?
> 
> Of course you will be watery on that many carbs, diabetic or not.
> 
> You could try metformin or insulin. I would only try insulin if you have a lot of muscle mass and an advanced bodybuilder.


 No I've not yet tested hba1c but have just ordered this test from medichecks. My fasted glucose in the morning is quite high though.

I do have some novorapid pens I've used but have only used these in preworkout protocol with maltodextrin etc.

if I was to go about incorporating insulin with each meal how many units should I use?

i feel the old school 1iu per 10g carbs will be way too much if consuming 700g carbs per day


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> No I've not yet tested hba1c but have just ordered this test from medichecks. My fasted glucose in the morning is quite high though.
> 
> I do have some novorapid pens I've used but have only used these in preworkout protocol with maltodextrin etc.
> 
> if I was to go about incorporating insulin with each meal how many units should I use?
> 
> i feel the old school 1iu per 10g carbs will be way too much if consuming 700g carbs per day


 What is your fasted morning glucose? You need an A1C test before anything.


----------



## strawberry123

ElChapo said:


> What is your fasted morning glucose? You need an A1C test before anything.


 Fasted blood glucose 6.0 nmol. Which would be considered pre diabetic I'm pretty sure. Will await results of hba1c test,

cheers


----------



## Pancake'

Hope all is well with you man.

How would you rate exercise bikes as a form of cardio? I'm not referring to a spin bike here. but that of your standard exercise bike.

I've seen people spacing out the frequency of testosterone injections often enough. I know this will of been covered previously so forgive me for asking if answered but is there any significant or additional benefits for spacing out the frequency of long esther testosterone injections to twice a week over that one shot? let's say doses of 300-500g with enanthate.

Lastly what's your A.I starting recommendation, ideal frequency injections of Test prop with doses ranging 300-600mg

cheers


----------



## faipdeooiad

Basic question here but re orals - would you suggest taking NAC/TUDCA a few hours apart from whichever oral you're running? It's always something I've done but purely just on the basis that I didn't want them interacting. Since this is an AMA from a significantly more experienced user, I thought I'd ask.


----------



## Djibril

Hello @ElChapo

I would like to ask you something in regards to oral dosing and their impact on HDL.

For example with a 10 week run of winstrol, would there be a significant diference with a dose of 30 mg vs a 60mg dose in the Hdl levels


----------



## stewedw

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> I would like to ask you something in regards to oral dosing and their impact on HDL.
> 
> For example with a 10 week run of winstrol, would there be a significant diference with a dose of 30 mg vs a 60mg dose in the Hdl levels


 @ElChapofollowing on from above, if running winny alongside test/npp or even just test, is there much point running 100mg daily instead of 50mg?

I'm doing 600 test, 400npp and 50mg for 12 weeks, My mates gonna go 1g text and 100mg winny as nadralone doesn't agree with him, but it seems too high for an oral?

Tia


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Add superdrol to the current stack, . Take it for 8 full weeks. you will explode.
> 
> Run NAC/TUDCA if concerned about liver Health.


 Okay will report back if am alive... 

Out of curiosity whats the longest you've ran SD yourself? This is the only place on the internet i've seen that recommend SD for that long. Im more so worried about permanent HDL LDL destruction and the kidneys (never had BP or sugar issue so far touchwood...)


----------



## Kaleem

Whats the longest you would recommend someone running 200mg Test E and 100mg Tren E Per week?


----------



## gymaddict1986

ElChapo said:


> Have you tested your A1C?
> 
> Of course you will be watery on that many carbs, diabetic or not.
> 
> You could try metformin or insulin. I would only try insulin if you have a lot of muscle mass and an advanced bodybuilder.


 Hello elchapo

just got my blood back all is fine apart from the red markers. Looking to go back on cycle . But just wanted your opinion on my hdl and thyroid. Good to go ?

many thanks


----------



## 90537

@ElChapo, Hi buddy 

Looking at adding some test to my prescribed TRT in a few months.

Would 300mg Test Prop each week be OK? How long before the endo's 6 monthly blood tests should I stop so it doesn't raise any suspicions on my blood results with regards to my added use?

Danny.


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> Correct, this is how we evolved, otherwise we would be skeletons. Did our ancestors have refrigerators and tupperware for eat 6 times daily?


 Sorry for late reply, makes sense.

on the note of Yohimbine, i am taking 15mg a day split am and pm - each time i took it i didnt "feel" anything, so then did 15mg tab in one, same thing, didnt feel anything to indicate i am using a stim - this was with intex pharma.

for the hell of it i got a pot of Spinx yohimbine just to compare - did 15mg tab and to be fair didnt really feel anything.

im confident both or at very least one of these labs yohimbine actually contains the active ingredient.

is this normal or is my body generally good with handling stims?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Don't overthink these things. Once or twice weekly and intra-workout nutrition is not going to make significant difference in results. Keep it simple.


 Okay just to be sure I understand - you saying that doing test e once a week and npp twice a week, will have the same outcome as doing test e twice a week and npp eod given the weekly dose i the same?

Btw whats your opnion on pump preworkout/ingredients - which ingredients do you prefer, and do you recommend buying them in bulk or do you have any good already made non stim pre you suggest? Will it have any benefits in regards of actual muscle building?


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> Fasted blood glucose 6.0 nmol. Which would be considered pre diabetic I'm pretty sure. Will await results of hba1c test,
> 
> cheers


 Not really. Get A1C and you will know. Blood glucose reading varies too much. Your level is not overtly high or suggesting pre-diabetes on it's own.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Hope all is well with you man.
> 
> How would you rate exercise bikes as a form of cardio? I'm not referring to a spin bike here. but that of your standard exercise bike.
> 
> I've seen people spacing out the frequency of testosterone injections often enough. I know this will of been covered previously so forgive me for asking if answered but is there any significant or additional benefits for spacing out the frequency of long esther testosterone injections to twice a week over that one shot? let's say doses of 300-500g with enanthate.
> 
> Lastly what's your A.I starting recommendation, ideal frequency injections of Test prop with doses ranging 300-600mg
> 
> cheers


 Whatever gets your heart rate up is going to work. It's good to avoid too much stress to knees and ankles and you don't tire out your arms like you can on a row machine or elliptical.

Twice weekly versus once weekly: Lower risk of high hematocrit, lower risk of feeling trough effect at the end of the week. Some guys do perfectly fine on once weekly injections. Some people metabolize faster than others though, so their levels drop very low by days 5-7. We are all different.

Question varies too much from person to person. Some people need no AI, some might need 2 mg adex, and 300 vs 600 mg is a significant difference as well. For TRT, most guys only need 0-0.5 mg adex per week. For 300-600 mg, MAYBE 1 mg-2 mg depending on the person, but most people take too much AI.


----------



## ElChapo

faipdeooiad said:


> Basic question here but re orals - would you suggest taking NAC/TUDCA a few hours apart from whichever oral you're running? It's always something I've done but purely just on the basis that I didn't want them interacting. Since this is an AMA from a significantly more experienced user, I thought I'd ask.


 No, take it whenever you want. It will work.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> I would like to ask you something in regards to oral dosing and their impact on HDL.
> 
> For example with a 10 week run of winstrol, would there be a significant diference with a dose of 30 mg vs a 60mg dose in the Hdl levels


 Yes, for sure. Don't worry about lipids so much. 10 weeks of bad lipids is not going to cause long-term harm, period. It takes decades for this to even have an effect and heart disease is not as simple as cholesterol levels, good vs bad, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapofollowing on from above, if running winny alongside test/npp or even just test, is there much point running 100mg daily instead of 50mg?
> 
> I'm doing 600 test, 400npp and 50mg for 12 weeks, My mates gonna go 1g text and 100mg winny as nadralone doesn't agree with him, but it seems too high for an oral?
> 
> Tia


 100% depends on your experience level. It's a waste to go to 100 mg winstrol if you aren't already advanced and have a lot of muscle built up already.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Okay will report back if am alive...
> 
> Out of curiosity whats the longest you've ran SD yourself? This is the only place on the internet i've seen that recommend SD for that long. Im more so worried about permanent HDL LDL destruction and the kidneys (never had BP or sugar issue so far touchwood...)


 12 weeks, but with injectable. Lethargy and low appetite were the side effects.

There is no permanent change in lipid levels. Lipids change because of the effect of androgens on liver cholesterol metabolism, this goes away upon discontinuation.

Kidney damage happens from high BP/blood glucose and this takes decades. The studies showing a direct toxic effect of androgens on kidney cells were done "in vitro" AKA on cells directly not in a living animal, so the results are to be taken with a grain of salt and in many cases disregarded completely.


----------



## ElChapo

Kaleem said:


> Whats the longest you would recommend someone running 200mg Test E and 100mg Tren E Per week?


 100% depends on your goals, etc. If you care about fertility or eventual PCT, you really should not run tren longer than 12 weeks or use it at all. If you are just blasting and cruising, then you could run this for much longer. Is this supposed to be a cruise or blast? The question is much to broad to be answered in full.


----------



## ElChapo

gymaddict1986 said:


> Hello elchapo
> 
> just got my blood back all is fine apart from the red markers. Looking to go back on cycle . But just wanted your opinion on my hdl and thyroid. Good to go ?
> 
> many thanks
> 
> View attachment 180089
> 
> 
> View attachment 180091


 Looks great, are you on thyroid meds?


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @ElChapo, Hi buddy
> 
> Looking at adding some test to my prescribed TRT in a few months.
> 
> Would 300mg Test Prop each week be OK? How long before the endo's 6 monthly blood tests should I stop so it doesn't raise any suspicions on my blood results with regards to my added use?
> 
> Danny.


 Stop 2 weeks before your test, it will be completely out of your system.

The dosage, etc depends on your goals/experience level. If you want to look like Calum von moger it's going to take a lot more than if you want to look like the higher end of a natty bodybuilder. You know what i mean?


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Sorry for late reply, makes sense.
> 
> on the note of Yohimbine, i am taking 15mg a day split am and pm - each time i took it i didnt "feel" anything, so then did 15mg tab in one, same thing, didnt feel anything to indicate i am using a stim - this was with intex pharma.
> 
> for the hell of it i got a pot of Spinx yohimbine just to compare - did 15mg tab and to be fair didnt really feel anything.
> 
> im confident both or at very least one of these labs yohimbine actually contains the active ingredient.
> 
> is this normal or is my body generally good with handling stims?


 It's yohimbine HCL and not yohimbe right?

Very odd, you tell me. How do you handle coffee/etc? I am extremely tolerant to stims but yohimbine still has a solid kick. That is strange. Does your heart rate increase at all or energy? You should feel something for sure.

I would only use yohimbine sourced from a legit supplement company, not UGL. This is a solid classic:

https://www.amazon.com/PrimaForce-Yohimbine-Count-2-5mg-Capsules/dp/B079Y8BFBD/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=yohimbine&qid=1582643826&sr=8-5

They used to sell amazing bulk yohimbine back in the day on amazon too, not sure if that's still a thing. I only see "yohimbe" powder. Maybe these UGLs are giving you Yohimbe instead of "Yohimbine". The difference is the same as Caffeine Vs Coffee. Yohimbine HCL is the active ingredient, Yohimbe is the plant, so much less potent.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> 12 weeks, but with injectable. Lethargy and low appetite were the side effects.
> 
> There is no permanent change in lipid levels. Lipids change because of the effect of androgens on liver cholesterol metabolism, this goes away upon discontinuation.
> 
> Kidney damage happens from high BP/blood glucose and this takes decades. The studies showing a direct toxic effect of androgens on kidney cells were done "in vitro" AKA on cells directly not in a living animal, so the results are to be taken with a grain of salt and in many cases disregarded completely.


 Cheers bud!

Just to confirm the dosage you recommend is once everyday right? So 20mg ED for 8 weeks?

Will use double up on the heart, kidney supps and add TUDCA/NAC


----------



## 90537

ElChapo said:


> Stop 2 weeks before your test, it will be completely out of your system.
> 
> The dosage, etc depends on your goals/experience level. If you want to look like Calum von moger it's going to take a lot more than if you want to look like the higher end of a natty bodybuilder. You know what i mean?


 I sure do get what you mean, my days of running 750mg of test per week are long gone, I'm just looking for a good boost of testosterone that's relatively moderate and on the low side of "a cycle"

6-8 weeks enough for a prop run or is that too short @ElChapo??

Danny.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay just to be sure I understand - you saying that doing test e once a week and npp twice a week, will have the same outcome as doing test e twice a week and npp eod given the weekly dose i the same?
> 
> Btw whats your opnion on pump preworkout/ingredients - which ingredients do you prefer, and do you recommend buying them in bulk or do you have any good already made non stim pre you suggest? Will it have any benefits in regards of actual muscle building?


 Yes.

If i were you, i would combine both injections in the same syringe and inject twice weekly together. For convenience and ease to remember.

Pump/pre-workouts: Overrated s**t. Cash cow for supplement companies. I use coffee for pre-workout myself and sometimes nothing. I can see the benefit especially for people who work a lot or train at odd times, just my opinion. As for ingredients, any stimulant that gives you the buzz to train better.

EC stack is damn strong and cheap as hell, that's what i would use. Yohimbine is also very strong.


----------



## gymaddict1986

ElChapo said:


> Looks great, are you on thyroid meds?


 No not currently on any meds at all .


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo

Im about to send off a medichecks test for tesosterone and estrogen.

Im taking 150mg test per week but also 50mg tbol and 1000 iu hcg per week.

Will this differ my testosterone level results from what i would have with only taking the test by itself? I know the estrogen may be higher with the hcg but wondering on if the testosterone levels will be different from usingn the tbol as well

Im also taking 1mg finasteride per day


----------



## MarkyMark

ElChapo said:


> It's yohimbine HCL and not yohimbe right?
> 
> Very odd, you tell me. How do you handle coffee/etc? I am extremely tolerant to stims but yohimbine still has a solid kick. That is strange. Does your heart rate increase at all or energy? You should feel something for sure.
> 
> I would only use yohimbine sourced from a legit supplement company, not UGL. This is a solid classic:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/PrimaForce-Yohimbine-Count-2-5mg-Capsules/dp/B079Y8BFBD/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=yohimbine&qid=1582643826&sr=8-5
> 
> They used to sell amazing bulk yohimbine back in the day on amazon too, not sure if that's still a thing. I only see "yohimbe" powder. Maybe these UGLs are giving you Yohimbe instead of "Yohimbine". The difference is the same as Caffeine Vs Coffee. Yohimbine HCL is the active ingredient, Yohimbe is the plant, so much less potent.


 Yes both UGL are yohimbine HCL - i tried that prima force a year or so ago and again, i didnt feel anything. Did some digging and some users reported that prima force is bunk and that to source yohimbine from a reputable UGL.

the UGL Yohimbine i have is Intex Pharma and Spinx - Spinx has a great reputation among the UK for years and a lot of guys on this forum use/have used this lab with good success.

Intex Pharma is new but has a pretty good rep also with their other products.


----------



## aaron118

@El Chapo do you consider regular creatine mono a worthwhile supplement? I haven't bothered to use it for many years but I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck going forward now training and diet are fully dialed in. Would you say it's worth holding off the creatine use and utilising it during a cruise or PCT phase in order to try and aid strength then?

Secondly, I'm a big fan of Yohimbine for pre-fasted cardio. It also makes it easier to reach a decent heart rate of around 140bpm, does this is any way cheat your cardiovascular system (if that makes sense)? I mean is your body still getting the same benefits of cardio at say between 140-160bpm via the use of yohimbine vs. say the same heart rate range without yohimbine? You'd clearly have to work a bit harder to reach the same heart rate without yohimbine.

P.s. I've switched from Test E to Test P (as per your suggestions) and can definitely see the positive differences in terms of water retention. Now in a calorie surplus and I feel leaner than I was when I was in a deficit with Test E. I'm also running 20mgs Superdrol ED so I appreciate that could also be helping with the dryness. 1.5 weeks in to current blast now and feeling great.

Thank you as always.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yes.
> 
> If i were you, i would combine both injections in the same syringe and inject twice weekly together. For convenience and ease to remember.
> 
> Pump/pre-workouts: Overrated s**t. Cash cow for supplement companies. I use coffee for pre-workout myself and sometimes nothing. I can see the benefit especially for people who work a lot or train at odd times, just my opinion. As for ingredients, any stimulant that gives you the buzz to train better.
> 
> EC stack is damn strong and cheap as hell, that's what i would use. Yohimbine is also very strong.


 Okay will do - 500test/300 npp spit into 2 weekly injections sounds fine?

So the thing about pump pre's increase bloodflow and no2 increase = cell volume increaase + nutrient delivery increase = more muscle growth, is this bullshit or just so little differnce that it wont matter at all? I mean has pump products really no benifits besides having some fun with a good pump?

I also noticed a lot of pre's contains cognitive enhancers such as huperzine A, alpha-GPC etc etc. Do you think these things has any benifits, or is it very minimal in terms of focus during a workout?

If so, basically only thing you recommend pre/intra workout is EC or yohimbine`? Or you have any other stables/ suggestions?

Thank you so much for helping, and sorry for all these questions


----------



## faipdeooiad

ElChapo said:


> No, take it whenever you want. It will work.


 Thanks for your input


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Cheers bud!
> 
> Just to confirm the dosage you recommend is once everyday right? So 20mg ED for 8 weeks?
> 
> Will use double up on the heart, kidney supps and add TUDCA/NAC


 20-40 mg, 500 mg TUDCA and 1000 mg NAC.

Kidney supps? There really isn't much to protect kidneys besides controlling blood pressure.

For heart protection, cialis/pycnogenol/cocoa are good.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Im about to send off a medichecks test for tesosterone and estrogen.
> 
> Im taking 150mg test per week but also 50mg tbol and 1000 iu hcg per week.
> 
> Will this differ my testosterone level results from what i would have with only taking the test by itself? I know the estrogen may be higher with the hcg but wondering on if the testosterone levels will be different from usingn the tbol as well
> 
> Im also taking 1mg finasteride per day


 Other AAS can give artificially higher Testosterone lab result if it's the ECLIA method. Using LC/MS method, this is not an issue. Tbol may or may not do this.

HCG might cause a slight increase depending on your testicular function and dosage, i would not expect more than 100-300 ng/dL extra. or around 4 nmol/L


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> Yes both UGL are yohimbine HCL - i tried that prima force a year or so ago and again, i didnt feel anything. Did some digging and some users reported that prima force is bunk and that to source yohimbine from a reputable UGL.
> 
> the UGL Yohimbine i have is Intex Pharma and Spinx - Spinx has a great reputation among the UK for years and a lot of guys on this forum use/have used this lab with good success.
> 
> Intex Pharma is new but has a pretty good rep also with their other products.


 I would guess they either ordered YOHIMBE powder instead of YOHIMBINE HCL, or the raw powder supplier gave them the wrong thing.

I know sphinx has good rep but you need to separate their AAS rep from pharma/supplement preperations. I only ever recommend pharma grade for SERM/AI/Etc. High quality supplements are generally close to pharma grade ; USP.


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> @El Chapo do you consider regular creatine mono a worthwhile supplement? I haven't bothered to use it for many years but I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck going forward now training and diet are fully dialed in. Would you say it's worth holding off the creatine use and utilising it during a cruise or PCT phase in order to try and aid strength then?
> 
> Secondly, I'm a big fan of Yohimbine for pre-fasted cardio. It also makes it easier to reach a decent heart rate of around 140bpm, does this is any way cheat your cardiovascular system (if that makes sense)? I mean is your body still getting the same benefits of cardio at say between 140-160bpm via the use of yohimbine vs. say the same heart rate range without yohimbine? You'd clearly have to work a bit harder to reach the same heart rate without yohimbine.
> 
> P.s. I've switched from Test E to Test P (as per your suggestions) and can definitely see the positive differences in terms of water retention. Now in a calorie surplus and I feel leaner than I was when I was in a deficit with Test E. I'm also running 20mgs Superdrol ED so I appreciate that could also be helping with the dryness. 1.5 weeks in to current blast now and feeling great.
> 
> Thank you as always.


 It's a good idea if you are bulking. It bloats my face like crazy so i avoid it, but it has potential to improve gains and workout performance so it's good to drop in. Some people don't feel any benefit whatsoever and this is postulated to either be due to genetics or if you eat a ton of meat, you can get enough creatine that way in some cases.

Yohimbine/cardio question; Yes, in a way you are getting the benefits of training in that range. You will probably not get the same performance benefit though.

Yep, i love test propionate. Not even a question about preference for me. Superdrol can dry you out a bit but not as much as winstrol.

Anytime brother, happy to hear about your success.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay will do - 500test/300 npp spit into 2 weekly injections sounds fine?
> 
> So the thing about pump pre's increase bloodflow and no2 increase = cell volume increaase + nutrient delivery increase = more muscle growth, is this bullshit or just so little differnce that it wont matter at all? I mean has pump products really no benifits besides having some fun with a good pump?
> 
> I also noticed a lot of pre's contains cognitive enhancers such as huperzine A, alpha-GPC etc etc. Do you think these things has any benifits, or is it very minimal in terms of focus during a workout?
> 
> If so, basically only thing you recommend pre/intra workout is EC or yohimbine`? Or you have any other stables/ suggestions?
> 
> Thank you so much for helping, and sorry for all these questions


 Sounds good, and next time you can do 500/500 + an oral.

Truly, it's mostly bullshit.

If the pre-workout is helping you have a better work out, especially because you are tired after a day of work or early in the morning, then it's worth it for you. If those cognitive enhancers are actually helping your focus and alertness, then the same applies there. Do do they have any benefit? I have no idea, never heard of any of those things. Look them up on Examine.com and see if they are legit or bullshit.

Not that i recommend those, i'm just telling you what I would use myself if i did pre-workout. EC and Yohimbine are very strong stimulants and very cheap. I like things simple and effective for everything and i have had much success with this approach in all areas of my life as have many elite athletes and champions, focus on what matters and stay disciplined.

Glad to help, no worries.


----------



## TALBOTL

@El Chapo

Good afternoon brother

Hope all is well

Can you recommend a length & dosage protocol for ECY stack? I'm stim tolerant ie can have Monster before bed levels as I hear ECY is pretty potent!

Was thinking 3-4 weeks to get a good feel?

Thanks

LT


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Sounds good, and next time you can do 500/500 + an oral.
> 
> Truly, it's mostly bullshit.
> 
> If the pre-workout is helping you have a better work out, especially because you are tired after a day of work or early in the morning, then it's worth it for you. If those cognitive enhancers are actually helping your focus and alertness, then the same applies there. Do do they have any benefit? I have no idea, never heard of any of those things. Look them up on Examine.com and see if they are legit or bullshit.
> 
> Not that i recommend those, i'm just telling you what I would use myself if i did pre-workout. EC and Yohimbine are very strong stimulants and very cheap. I like things simple and effective for everything and i have had much success with this approach in all areas of my life as have many elite athletes and champions, focus on what matters and stay disciplined.
> 
> Glad to help, no worries.


 Great, will save a lot of money not investing in pre workouts then.

Do you recommend doing 500/500 instead of 500/300, also though that 300 may be too low for npp?

As for support supps (liver etc), do you have any recommendations? Do you think strom sports support max is worth the money, you would you just invest in cheap tudca+nac, I see "Govitamins" on ebay has some cheap tudca, have you tried using it, and is it good - it seems very cheap compared to other tudca products.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> 20-40 mg, 500 mg TUDCA and 1000 mg NAC.
> 
> Kidney supps? There really isn't much to protect kidneys besides controlling blood pressure.
> 
> For heart protection, cialis/pycnogenol/cocoa are good.


 Mostly and 8g Astragulus and a hail mary every night lol


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Good afternoon brother
> 
> Hope all is well
> 
> Can you recommend a length & dosage protocol for ECY stack? I'm stim tolerant ie can have Monster before bed levels as I hear ECY is pretty potent!
> 
> Was thinking 3-4 weeks to get a good feel?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> LT


 Length/dosage : Until your cut is finished. 8-12 weeks is fine, there can be a crash/withdrawal effect like when you stop coffee for a while. Even when the stimulant effect wears off from tolerance, it still enhances fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great, will save a lot of money not investing in pre workouts then.
> 
> Do you recommend doing 500/500 instead of 500/300, also though that 300 may be too low for npp?
> 
> As for support supps (liver etc), do you have any recommendations? Do you think strom sports support max is worth the money, you would you just invest in cheap tudca+nac, I see "Govitamins" on ebay has some cheap tudca, have you tried using it, and is it good - it seems very cheap compared to other tudca products.


 The supplement industry for the gym is 90% bullshit marketing. That's why every asshole on instagram is trying to get their piece of the pie. Easy money.

I always recommend buying NAC/TUDCA. That's all you need for extremely potent liver protection. Idk about that brand, but stick to reputable brands for best results. NOW sells NAC


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> The supplement industry for the gym is 90% bullshit marketing. That's why every asshole on instagram is trying to get their piece of the pie. Easy money.
> 
> I always recommend buying NAC/TUDCA. That's all you need for extremely potent liver protection. Idk about that brand, but stick to reputable brands for best results. NOW sells NAC


 Nice, you know any cheap place to get tudca? Most places it seems kinda expesive - like 30£ for a month or something


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Nice, you know any cheap place to get tudca? Most places it seems kinda expesive - like 30£ for a month or something


 Nutricost TUDCA and double wood TUDCA


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Length/dosage : Until your cut is finished. 8-12 weeks is fine, there can be a crash/withdrawal effect like when you stop coffee for a while. Even when the stimulant effect wears off from tolerance, it still enhances fat loss.


 Perfect, thank you.

What about dosage wise 207lbs 190cm for reference?

LT


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Nutricost TUDCA and double wood TUDCA


 Thx man, in the past I've used this supportmax label is :

Vitamins d3 - 5000iu

Selenium - 100mcg

N-Acetyl Cysteine - 1,000mg

Co-Q10 100mg

TUDCA 250mg

Betaine HCL. 500mg

Citrus Bergamot 500mg

dandelion root extract 100mg

hawthorn berry 100mg

Its more expensive than just tudca+nac, but is the other stuff worth the extra money spend?

Also Im not sure if you have heard of this, but does some ppl not really respond to oral AAS? My buddy tried Dbol 40mg didnt feel anything, anadrol 50-100mg, still nothing really...

I've heard some ppl say that if you chew oral aas, it should have a very bitter taste...those orals he has tried doesnt taste of anything, but tbh, I think the brands he tried are gtg.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Perfect, thank you.
> 
> What about dosage wise 207lbs 190cm for reference?
> 
> LT


 EC stack dose is 20 mg ephedrine HCl+200-400 mg caffeine, i would only do twice daily max. Once daily is plenty for myself and i have a strong tolerance for stimulants.

Yohimbine HCl 16-24 mg in the morning fasted, going over that can cause BP spikes and anxiety in susceptible people.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx man, in the past I've used this supportmax label is :
> 
> Vitamins d3 - 5000iu
> 
> Selenium - 100mcg
> 
> N-Acetyl Cysteine - 1,000mg
> 
> Co-Q10 100mg
> 
> TUDCA 250mg
> 
> Betaine HCL. 500mg
> 
> Citrus Bergamot 500mg
> 
> dandelion root extract 100mg
> 
> hawthorn berry 100mg
> 
> Its more expensive than just tudca+nac, but is the other stuff worth the extra money spend?
> 
> Also Im not sure if you have heard of this, but does some ppl not really respond to oral AAS? My buddy tried Dbol 40mg didnt feel anything, anadrol 50-100mg, still nothing really...
> 
> I've heard some ppl say that if you chew oral aas, it should have a very bitter taste...those orals he has tried doesnt taste of anything, but tbh, I think the brands he tried are gtg.


 TUDCA/NAC.

You should be running Vitamin D year round 5,000 IU anyways, not just when you take a cycle protection stack.

Not a fan of statins, they increase muscle damage and other problems they can cause. The lipid theory of heart disease has been under heavy scrutiny lately. Citrus B is an herbal statin with the same mechanism of action as Atorvastatin.

Maybe bunk orals, the thing is that anabolic steroids are not caffeine/stimulants, you aren't supposed to get some insane head rush and want to rape and f**k everything in your path. AAS are generally subtle in their effects once you reach a certain level of experience and gains come slower. I recommend people run a labmax test on their AAS if they suspect something is off. It won't tell you the concentration, but it can tell you if it at least contains what it says.

One source might have excellent test and tren, but bunk or underdosed Dbol. Understand that the final product can get affect in many steps of the process. First, the raws from the chinese supplier could be bunk, weak or something else entirely. Then the source needs to dose his tablets/recipe properly, generally storage does not affect potency significantly unless left out in hot temps/in sunlight or moisture.


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> EC stack dose is 20 mg ephedrine HCl+200-400 mg caffeine, i would only do twice daily max. Once daily is plenty for myself and i have a strong tolerance for stimulants.
> 
> Yohimbine HCl 16-24 mg in the morning fasted, going over that can cause BP spikes and anxiety in susceptible people.


 Thank you Sir, enjoy your weekend.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> TUDCA/NAC.
> 
> You should be running Vitamin D year round 5,000 IU anyways, not just when you take a cycle protection stack.
> 
> Not a fan of statins, they increase muscle damage and other problems they can cause. The lipid theory of heart disease has been under heavy scrutiny lately. Citrus B is an herbal statin with the same mechanism of action as Atorvastatin.
> 
> Maybe bunk orals, the thing is that anabolic steroids are not caffeine/stimulants, you aren't supposed to get some insane head rush and want to rape and f**k everything in your path. AAS are generally subtle in their effects once you reach a certain level of experience and gains come slower. I recommend people run a labmax test on their AAS if they suspect something is off. It won't tell you the concentration, but it can tell you if it at least contains what it says.
> 
> One source might have excellent test and tren, but bunk or underdosed Dbol. Understand that the final product can get affect in many steps of the process. First, the raws from the chinese supplier could be bunk, weak or something else entirely. Then the source needs to dose his tablets/recipe properly, generally storage does not affect potency significantly unless left out in hot temps/in sunlight or moisture.


 Okay will recommend him to try labmax, he told me that he might get a little bit more watery, but not the strength/mass gains ppl talk about.

Can you try to explain what you mean by what you are saying about Citrus B and statins? Im not sure I understand what you mean - does it actually have bad effects on muscle building?

As mentioned several times, Im learning so much from your answers to my and other ppl questions, its really nice to have a guy answering questions with no bullshit behind the answers.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay will recommend him to try labmax, he told me that he might get a little bit more watery, but not the strength/mass gains ppl talk about.
> 
> Can you try to explain what you mean by what you are saying about Citrus B and statins? Im not sure I understand what you mean - does it actually have bad effects on muscle building?
> 
> As mentioned several times, Im learning so much from your answers to my and other ppl questions, its really nice to have a guy answering questions with no bullshit behind the answers.


 Statins increase damage to muscle among other negative side effects:

https://kellybroganmd.com/cracking-cholesterol-myth-statins-harm-body-mind

Citrus bergamot IS a statin. Same exact mechanism of action. Just like saw palmetto is like an herbal form of finasteride. It inhibits the same enzyme as statins do. Same effect but more mild.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Statins increase damage to muscle among other negative side effects:
> 
> https://kellybroganmd.com/cracking-cholesterol-myth-statins-harm-body-mind
> 
> Citrus bergamot IS a statin. Same exact mechanism of action. Just like saw palmetto is like an herbal form of finasteride. It inhibits the same enzyme as statins do. Same effect but more mild.


 Wow, I wonder why so many ppl use statins as stables in their supplement stash?

But you suggest

Tudca

Nac

Vit D

any other stables on and off cycle, thx


----------



## NullPointer

ElChapo said:


> Possible, also TSH is borderline high. Before starting a cycle, check your Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine and Free T3. You might have hypothyroidism or subclinical hypothyroidism. This can also elevate prolactin.


 Thanks for that I'll get it checked out, is the Free T4 not the same as the one I had in that test or is free direct T4 different?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Wow, I wonder why so many ppl use statins as stables in their supplement stash?
> 
> But you suggest
> 
> Tudca
> 
> Nac
> 
> Vit D
> 
> any other stables on and off cycle, thx


 Fear of cholesterol, based on cherry picked studies from decades ago and knowledge deficit on the side effects.

Vitamin D should be year round and has nothing to do with steroid safety/protection. Pycnogenol and a good multivitamin are good for year round stacks as well, and of course regular cardiovascular exercise.

TUDCA/NAC for liver protection, is all you need. Very potent and effective.


----------



## jj1996

ElChapo said:


> Fear of cholesterol, based on cherry picked studies from decades ago and knowledge deficit on the side effects.
> 
> Vitamin D should be year round and has nothing to do with steroid safety/protection. Pycnogenol and a good multivitamin are good for year round stacks as well, and of course regular cardiovascular exercise.
> 
> TUDCA/NAC for liver protection, is all you need. Very potent and effective.


 Hey I've heard TUDCA should be utilised after the oral use as it increases the risk of hepatoxicity when used concurrently also it weakens the effect of the oral...

Whats your thoughts on this? Any merit or total broscience?


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo

When exactly should i take blood for my testosterone blood test. Im injecting test cyp 150mg once a week and want to see exactly the range its putting me at, as i plan on staying on this dose year round.

Should i take the blood immediately after jabbing or wait 24 hours?


----------



## Pancake'

What impacts can a practitioner of extreme fasting experience? I'm talking in terms of heightened assertiveness, adrenaline, focus that sort of context. what's being released and making your body survive when you're running on empty?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Fear of cholesterol, based on cherry picked studies from decades ago and knowledge deficit on the side effects.
> 
> Vitamin D should be year round and has nothing to do with steroid safety/protection. Pycnogenol and a good multivitamin are good for year round stacks as well, and of course regular cardiovascular exercise.
> 
> TUDCA/NAC for liver protection, is all you need. Very potent and effective.


 Well okay - is Citrus Bergamot a powerfull enough statin that you think it carries these side effects? I mean doesnt these studies only apply to actual prescription statins

Never used Pycnogel, but if I read correct, it is a very powerful antioxidant supplement?

Im sure you heard about "Shirataki Noodles" - Do you think this stuff has any healt benififts? Also heard a negative opinion on these, as some1 said that these noodles will make some of the food not to be absorbed, is this true or does it not have any effect of absorbtion of other nutrients if you include them in same meal?

And last, do you know if Brawn TUDCA is gtg?


----------



## ElChapo

NullPointer said:


> Thanks for that I'll get it checked out, is the Free T4 not the same as the one I had in that test or is free direct T4 different?


 Show me again, and i'll double check. Don't believe i saw it.


----------



## ElChapo

jj1996 said:


> Hey I've heard TUDCA should be utilised after the oral use as it increases the risk of hepatoxicity when used concurrently also it weakens the effect of the oral...
> 
> Whats your thoughts on this? Any merit or total broscience?


 Bullshit


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> When exactly should i take blood for my testosterone blood test. Im injecting test cyp 150mg once a week and want to see exactly the range its putting me at, as i plan on staying on this dose year round.
> 
> Should i take the blood immediately after jabbing or wait 24 hours?


 I would split the dose twice weekly, then you can test anytime. The peak and trough effect is attenuated this way. Technically on once weekly, you want to test the day of the injection to see your trough, the issue is that your levels can be super high mid-week and very low by day 6-7. This is why twice weekly is better.

Drawing blood within 24-48 hours later is the worst idea, you are going to get very high spike levels.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What impacts can a practitioner of extreme fasting experience? I'm talking in terms of heightened assertiveness, adrenaline, focus that sort of context. what's being released and making your body survive when you're running on empty?


 Adrenaline/cortisol help your body breakdown fats/proteins from your adipose tissue and muscle. I strongly don't recommend extreme fasting. Intermittent fasting of skipping breakfast is ideal. +24 hour fasts don't provide much benefit and will increase stress hormones. This can make you feel good at first, but detrimental in the long run. The adrenaline can make you agitated/assertive and give you more focus/energy at first.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Well okay - is Citrus Bergamot a powerfull enough statin that you think it carries these side effects? I mean doesnt these studies only apply to actual prescription statins
> 
> Never used Pycnogel, but if I read correct, it is a very powerful antioxidant supplement?
> 
> Im sure you heard about "Shirataki Noodles" - Do you think this stuff has any healt benififts? Also heard a negative opinion on these, as some1 said that these noodles will make some of the food not to be absorbed, is this true or does it not have any effect of absorbtion of other nutrients if you include them in same meal?
> 
> And last, do you know if Brawn TUDCA is gtg?


 The key phrase is "mechanism of action" . If a drug/supplement has the same mechanism of action, all the effects will be the same. This includes benefits and side effects.

It's the same as saw palmetto which is an herbal version finasteride. Same mechanism of action and many report similar side effects to sex drive/libido.

I believe the "not absorbed" thing is because of the high insoluble fiber content, so it's lower calorie while physically filling you up. The health benefits would be secondary to fat loss, but on it's own? Doubtful.

I don't know that brand, i would stick to Amazon stuff or mainstream labels. TUDCA is a very bitter powder to give you a clue if you taste it.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> The key phrase is "mechanism of action" . If a drug/supplement has the same mechanism of action, all the effects will be the same. This includes benefits and side effects.
> 
> It's the same as saw palmetto which is an herbal version finasteride. Same mechanism of action and many report similar side effects to sex drive/libido.
> 
> I believe the "not absorbed" thing is because of the high insoluble fiber content, so it's lower calorie while physically filling you up. The health benefits would be secondary to fat loss, but on it's own? Doubtful.
> 
> I don't know that brand, i would stick to Amazon stuff or mainstream labels. TUDCA is a very bitter powder to give you a clue if you taste it.


 Okay I see

As for the not absorbed thing, I meant, if you do meat+veggies, and add the noodles, is there a chance that the noodle will make it so you dont absorb the protein+vitamins from meat and vegs fully somehow or will it have no influence on what other foods you eat WITH the noodles? I


----------



## NullPointer

ElChapo said:


> Show me again, and i'll double check. Don't believe i saw it.











sorry maybe it didn't attach properly


----------



## cell-tech

ElChapo said:


> I would split the dose twice weekly, then you can test anytime. The peak and trough effect is attenuated this way. Technically on once weekly, you want to test the day of the injection to see your trough, the issue is that your levels can be super high mid-week and very low by day 6-7. This is why twice weekly is better.
> 
> Drawing blood within 24-48 hours later is the worst idea, you are going to get very high spike levels.


 Ok thanks, if i switch twice to a week, what would be the perfect time to test the blood - right in the middle of the two jabs?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo my fasted blood glucose came in at 4.6 this morning.

I know this number is normal but I expected it to be lower, given that i have fasted for 16 hours and have not eaten any carbs for closer to 24 hours

Just want to make sure

I also recently switched to taking my hgh am instead of pm, not sure if it matters


----------



## stewedw

Djibril said:


> Hello @ElChapo


 .hi mate, I've never had gyno.

Left nipple (not under the pointy part of it but the fleshy part) has a pronounced lump. My first though is an ingrown hair, I also had a sunbed so could be that. It was fine sat, and then appeared Sunday, still sore and big today. Feels like a spot thst you could burst, but no head.

How can I tell? And should I run nolva as a precaution. I'm already cruising 300mg ee test and 12.5mg ai.ast year on a blast I was zero ai for six months and more test with no issues hence why I'm not convinced that it's gyno but would rather ask. Thanks.


----------



## Fattynomore

@El Chapo your thoughts on a superdrol 20mg, pd, winny 50mg, pd and test 300mg pw. And what would adequate liver protection be to protect against both those compounds. Can you see this having any negative effects towards cardio.


----------



## bailey1980

@El Chapo your thoughts on few markers out of range plz been cruising on 250mg sus every 14 days for 10 weeks. Most of it looks ok not clued up on stuff that slightly out?


----------



## ElChapo

NullPointer said:


> View attachment 179559
> 
> 
> sorry maybe it didn't attach properly


 Your Free T4 is excellent, that is the one i was talking about. So you're fine.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay I see
> 
> As for the not absorbed thing, I meant, if you do meat+veggies, and add the noodles, is there a chance that the noodle will make it so you dont absorb the protein+vitamins from meat and vegs fully somehow or will it have no influence on what other foods you eat WITH the noodles? I


 No, absorption will be fine and not significantly impacted.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> Ok thanks, if i switch twice to a week, what would be the perfect time to test the blood - right in the middle of the two jabs?


 I would do the day of the next jab, before you jab. To get the trough level. It's less important when you do twice weekly when you test because levels will be fairly stable


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo my fasted blood glucose came in at 4.6 this morning.
> 
> I know this number is normal but I expected it to be lower, given that i have fasted for 16 hours and have not eaten any carbs for closer to 24 hours
> 
> Just want to make sure
> 
> I also recently switched to taking my hgh am instead of pm, not sure if it matters


 That number is 110% normal. Not a single thing wrong with it.

In studies, PM HGH is absorbed better in certain papers. AM can make some people feel lethargic/sleep. PM mimicks the natural pulsatile secretion better with effects on certain metabolic parameters that may not be signficant.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> .hi mate, I've never had gyno.
> 
> Left nipple (not under the pointy part of it but the fleshy part) has a pronounced lump. My first though is an ingrown hair, I also had a sunbed so could be that. It was fine sat, and then appeared Sunday, still sore and big today. Feels like a spot thst you could burst, but no head.
> 
> How can I tell? And should I run nolva as a precaution. I'm already cruising 300mg ee test and 12.5mg ai.ast year on a blast I was zero ai for six months and more test with no issues hence why I'm not convinced that it's gyno but would rather ask. Thanks.


 Do you shave your chest?


----------



## ElChapo

Fattynomore said:


> @El Chapo your thoughts on a superdrol 20mg, pd, winny 50mg, pd and test 300mg pw. And what would adequate liver protection be to protect against both those compounds. Can you see this having any negative effects towards cardio.


 Likely close to equivalent toxicity of 100 mg winstrol daily.

TUDCA 500-1000 mg+NAC 1000 mg is all you need.

At that dose, it may affect cardio negatively directly (AAS increases muscle oxygen consumption) and/or via muscle pumps (back and legs).


----------



## ElChapo

bailey1980 said:


> @El Chapo your thoughts on few markers out of range plz been cruising on 250mg sus every 14 days for 10 weeks. Most of it looks ok not clued up on stuff that slightly out?
> View attachment 180357
> View attachment 180359


 First, you should be Injecting Testosterone at minimum once weekly, or twice weekly for best results.

Do you drink a lot of water? Are you very muscular? How is your blood pressure? Have you ever teated Thyroid hormones?

This will help me figure out what is going on with your BUN/Creatinine and GFR.


----------



## bailey1980

ElChapo said:


> First, you should be Injecting Testosterone at minimum once weekly, or twice weekly for best results.
> 
> Do you drink a lot of water? Are you very muscular? How is your blood pressure? Have you ever teated Thyroid hormones?
> 
> This will help me figure out what is going on with your BUN/Creatinine and GFR.


 All other markers fine never taken any thyroid meds

made sure I was well hydrated before test normally quite good drinking enough did train hard night before test

av some decent muscle for small frame but by no means massive blood pressure 70/80 135

Used bit of bit of mt2 here and there?

i use lanzaprozole and been supplementing narangin


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Do you shave your chest?


 Yes, but I've never had this at all. It's to the inside of the areola and of out some sudocream (similar to savlon) on it to sofen the area and today I've held a warmish/hot compress against it for a few mins and it did look as if there was a white but as if it was a spot coming to a head. It's a sensitive part of the body so very sore to squeeze

Anything else I should do to rule it out as gyno? Like I say, other side isn't tender and the rest of the nipple in question isn't tender and feels normal underneath.


----------



## Fattynomore

ElChapo said:


> Likely close to equivalent toxicity of 100 mg winstrol daily.
> 
> TUDCA 500-1000 mg+NAC 1000 mg is all you need.
> 
> At that dose, it may affect cardio negatively directly (AAS increases muscle oxygen consumption) and/or via muscle pumps (back and legs).


 Thanks, in your opinion what what would be better winny at 100mg or superdrol/winny? And what duration would you run, apologies if this comes across as wanting spoon fed, certainly not the case.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> That number is 110% normal. Not a single thing wrong with it.
> 
> In studies, PM HGH is absorbed better in certain papers. AM can make some people feel lethargic/sleep. PM mimicks the natural pulsatile secretion better with effects on certain metabolic parameters that may not be signficant.


 Is it a big deal if i take it upon waking up? I find that it helps me better to fall asleep, if the growth has been in my system for a lot of hours before bed

I have been taking it for the past week, first thing when I wake up, no lethargy during the day with this method

However, if utilizing HGH during sleep is important, perhaps i could try and take it 5-6 hours before bed instead?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I've only been training with weights twice weekly (upper/lower split) to maintain muscle whilst focusing on other things for the past 6 months. I've stayed on 300mg Test E during that time as that's where I feel good. I'm now looking to get back into a push/pull/legs split and gain some muscle with increased calories, training with higher intensity and increased hormones. Currently 100kg after 5 years training with 2 and a half years on anabolics.

I used to run large cycles of 1-2g total of short esters which I believe is not necessary to gain muscle.

do you think I can still gain significant muscle by reducing total dosage to 500mg Test Prop Weekly + 50mg winstrol Daily?

Total dosages will be almost half of what I used to use to gain size but training and nutrition will be strongly focused on this time round, rather than stupid cycles of high Tren and orals.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo is there any techniques/supplements/drugs that can waken the nervous system before heavy training ?

since some time I'm not enough angry at the gym , I'm 'soft' and I can't lift as heavy as before.

3 years ago I used ephedrine as a pre workout but it s not good for health and my anxiety so I stopped but it was working well as a pre w.

For techniques i do some explosive movements before a big lift , it works a little but not much I think.

I was thinking of trying ammoniac salt before big lifts but not sure.

(my caffeine pre workout aint working at all , been taking caffeine since years )

Any tips ?


----------



## ElChapo

bailey1980 said:


> All other markers fine never taken any thyroid meds
> 
> made sure I was well hydrated before test normally quite good drinking enough did train hard night before test
> 
> av some decent muscle for small frame but by no means massive blood pressure 70/80 135
> 
> Used bit of bit of mt2 here and there?
> 
> i use lanzaprozole and been supplementing narangin


 Meant to say, Do you have thyroid hormone lab values. Sluggish thyroid = Sluggish kidneys.

Blood pressure is 135/80?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Yes, but I've never had this at all. It's to the inside of the areola and of out some sudocream (similar to savlon) on it to sofen the area and today I've held a warmish/hot compress against it for a few mins and it did look as if there was a white but as if it was a spot coming to a head. It's a sensitive part of the body so very sore to squeeze
> 
> Anything else I should do to rule it out as gyno? Like I say, other side isn't tender and the rest of the nipple in question isn't tender and feels normal underneath.


 If you want, PM me a picture.

Could be infected follicle/in-grown hair.

A gyno lump would be completely inside the skin, there would be no obvious inflammation, swelling, pus or redness on the outside. Generally, Gyno starts out like a small lump, then grows into a fleshy disc.


----------



## ElChapo

Fattynomore said:


> Thanks, in your opinion what what would be better winny at 100mg or superdrol/winny? And what duration would you run, apologies if this comes across as wanting spoon fed, certainly not the case.


 Both would be very effective, i would try the SDROL/Winstrol combo. Sdrol will pump you up well and winstrol will dry you out.

Depends on your risk tolerance. If you aren't going to party or drink alcohol, are running NAC/TUDCA, and avoid liver stressing meds like tylenol, then you could try 8-12 weeks. I wouldn'r run such a combo unless you are advanced and already have some solid gains/strength in your belt. Don't let these pros fool you, they run orals year round. Most amateurs are wasting their potential running them 2-4 weeks for kickstart/finishing but these compounds MUST be respected for safety.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Is it a big deal if i take it upon waking up? I find that it helps me better to fall asleep, if the growth has been in my system for a lot of hours before bed
> 
> I have been taking it for the past week, first thing when I wake up, no lethargy during the day with this method
> 
> However, if utilizing HGH during sleep is important, perhaps i could try and take it 5-6 hours before bed instead?


 It's fine, test your IGF-1 if you want to see how well it's working. Note that NPP/DECA/TREN and Nolva/Ralox could throw off this IGF-1 reading. (lower it artificially)


----------



## Pancake'

If I'm training 3-5 days a week and want to implement the use of a spin bike as a form of cardio. how many sessions could I implement? I was thinking 3-4 and two of those being directly after leg training. I'm new to spinning so would be interested in the frequency/duration you could recommend in conjunction with strength training. Thank you ElChapo.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I've only been training with weights twice weekly (upper/lower split) to maintain muscle whilst focusing on other things for the past 6 months. I've stayed on 300mg Test E during that time as that's where I feel good. I'm now looking to get back into a push/pull/legs split and gain some muscle with increased calories, training with higher intensity and increased hormones. Currently 100kg after 5 years training with 2 and a half years on anabolics.
> 
> I used to run large cycles of 1-2g total of short esters which I believe is not necessary to gain muscle.
> 
> do you think I can still gain significant muscle by reducing total dosage to 500mg Test Prop Weekly + 50mg winstrol Daily?
> 
> Total dosages will be almost half of what I used to use to gain size but training and nutrition will be strongly focused on this time round, rather than stupid cycles of high Tren and orals.


 Yes, possibly (depends on how much of that muscle is past your genetic limits/your genetic response to AAS/etc).

If you want to use your strength/reps as a gauge for that. If you are getting stronger/increasing reps, then your cycle/nutrition/training is working. If not, then go back to the drawing board.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> If I'm training 3-5 days a week and want to implement the use of a spin bike as a form of cardio. how many sessions could I implement? I was thinking 3-4 and two of those being directly after leg training. I'm new to spinning so would be interested in the frequency/duration you could recommend in conjunction with strength training. Thank you ElChapo.


 It depends on your focus.

If you are trying to build muscle and/or get stronger, i would limit to 2-3 days max at an easy intensity like 140-160 BPM, 20-30 mins. That will keep your endurance up, improve intra-set and intra-day recovery, glycogen stores, without negatively affecting gains or burning excess calories.

If you are just maintaining your physique and/or for health reasons, 3-6 days per week, same setup.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, absorption will be fine and not significantly impacted.


 great, thing is it would be very bad if you are on a strict cut if those noodle could impact the aborsbtion of food, especially if you are very low on macros.

Btw, if you dont like natural statins like citrus bergamot - what do you suggest for optimizing cholesterol and blood pressure? (Besides doing cardio ofc)


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> If you want, PM me a picture.
> 
> Could be infected follicle/in-grown hair.
> 
> A gyno lump would be completely inside the skin, there would be no obvious inflammation, swelling, pus or redness on the outside. Generally, Gyno starts out like a small lump, then grows into a fleshy disc.


 Video and pic attached, I'm sitting down trying to relax the area. From your perspective the entire left nipple is fine apart from the inside part of the areola (closest to the sternum)

So essentially the entire rest of it appears fine, no changes, just this random lump. I did wear a bike dry fit type under top Saturday which could have pulled a hair, I've no idea who to coax an ingrown hair out however and no sign of puss or anything that I could squeeze (I've tried, it's sore, but nothing gets bigger or smaller)

View attachment 20200304_154628.mp4



__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## stewedw

Also, just in case the pic makes it look like man boobs, I've attached ones from last Monday. I'm on a cut atm and don't have much in the way of fst or skin around the nipple areas. Hopefully it's a hair and I can use a compass to tease it out.


----------



## Malin

What's the longest you'd run 50mg of anavar ed for?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> great, thing is it would be very bad if you are on a strict cut if those noodle could impact the aborsbtion of food, especially if you are very low on macros.
> 
> Btw, if you dont like natural statins like citrus bergamot - what do you suggest for optimizing cholesterol and blood pressure? (Besides doing cardio ofc)


 Cardio and fat loss for cardiovascular health and protection. Pycnogenol/cocoa extract or dark chocolate. 2.5-5 mg cialis is potent as well. May reverse endothelial damage (based on murine studies)


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Video and pic attached, I'm sitting down trying to relax the area. From your perspective the entire left nipple is fine apart from the inside part of the areola (closest to the sternum)
> 
> So essentially the entire rest of it appears fine, no changes, just this random lump. I did wear a bike dry fit type under top Saturday which could have pulled a hair, I've no idea who to coax an ingrown hair out however and no sign of puss or anything that I could squeeze (I've tried, it's sore, but nothing gets bigger or smaller)
> 
> View attachment 180395
> 
> 
> View attachment 180397


 I'm thinking it's an ingrown hair, gyno does make a visible change to the skin, it's just a lump that's under the skin that starts out pea size and grows into a disc and then a cone.


----------



## ElChapo

Malin said:


> What's the longest you'd run 50mg of anavar ed for?


 12 weeks, TUDCA/NAC for liver health.


----------



## bailey1980

ElChapo said:


> Meant to say, Do you have thyroid hormone lab values. Sluggish thyroid = Sluggish kidneys.
> 
> Blood pressure is 135/80?


 Yes that blood pressure pal 135/80 thyroid look good?






if any help pal below we're my kidney values only 8 month previous difference was I was totally off everything for 3 month when taken and wasn't training too much as was carrying a injury?


----------



## Hansistyle

Question, after a long cycle of 24 weeks having used various long ester aas ( test-bold-tren), in how time receptors will have the product out?

I know that Boldenone as a long ester need more days, approx 20-25 to be completely out, but others esters? Enantate?Acetate?

Can anyone help me?

This is to be ready,if bloods are on par, to restart asap and not constantly up the dose.

Thank you hope is clear my question.


----------



## ElChapo

bailey1980 said:


> Yes that blood pressure pal 135/80 thyroid look good?
> View attachment 180417
> if any help pal below we're my kidney values only 8 month previous difference was I was totally off everything for 3 month when taken and wasn't training too much as was carrying a injury?
> View attachment 180419


 Do you take creatine or any supplement that may contain it, like a pre-workout? Do you eat a lot of meat/protein powder/etc?


----------



## ElChapo

Hansistyle said:


> Question, after a long cycle of 24 weeks having used various long ester aas ( test-bold-tren), in how time receptors will have the product out?
> 
> I know that Boldenone as a long ester need more days, approx 20-25 to be completely out, but others esters? Enantate?Acetate?
> 
> Can anyone help me?
> 
> This is to be ready,if bloods are on par, to restart asap and not constantly up the dose.
> 
> Thank you hope is clear my question.


 Yes, type your data here:

Steroidplotter.com


----------



## bailey1980

ElChapo said:


> Do you take creatine or any supplement that may contain it, like a pre-workout? Do you eat a lot of meat/protein powder/etc?


 Don't take creatine mate

i eat quite a lot of meat this my main source of protien plus I have a protien bar everday aswell


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-potassium supplement on test cycle useful even if sodium levels are in range?

-Does Nizoral protect your hair against DHT compounds like anavar/masteron ?


----------



## NullPointer

I ran my raw genome through the promethease website you wrote about on a post a few hundreds pages back just out of pure curiosity and I'm just a bit of a data geek anyway.

I have the (C;T) version of ACTN3 gene is this good for weight lifting and strength training?

Also is there any good ones to check on for male pattern baldness that would indicate how prone I am to balding etc?

Really interesting stuff though so thanks for pointing that site out. :thumb


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i suspect my blood pressure may be creeping up, i seem to recall you recommending a good and cheap blood pressure monitor? I can't find the post tho

Edit: HGH has always given me sort of heavy breathing, but lately sometimes when talking and thus holding my breath, I have been feeling a bit like I'm lacking air/being a bit out of breath.

I thought it could have something to do with blood pressure? No idea tho


----------



## Jordan08

Hi Mate,

What would you recommend for someone who has a high LDL: HDL cholesterol on TRT.

Test shows LDL : HDL ratio as 4.5 when the range is 1.5-3.5. It consistently stays around this number no matter how clean he eats(Saturated fats also in control) or do regular cardio. What you would suggest?

Regards


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Hey buddy...

I've been doing a bit of research on a peptide called GHK-Cu and its pretty incredible effects re anti aging, anti oxidation of LDL, etc.. It also appears to help protect skin from UV radiation, stimulate wound healing, and a ton of other stuff.

Do you know much about it?

Thanks


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

2nd question...

What do you think about the notion of stacking HGH and ipamorelin (for its selective benefits and natural production stimulation)?

I could go into my rationale, but before I bore you with the details, could you give it an indicative thumbs up/down?

Thank you!


----------



## swole troll

What are your thoughts on telmisartan and it's effect on reversing LVH

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3749634/

Do you think this would he a viable 'supplement' without reducing BP too much in those not susceptible

How this translates to me personally is I never have BP issues however we could all benefit from reducing the risk of LVH.


----------



## arbffgadm100

swole troll said:


> What are your thoughts on telmisartan and it's effect on reversing LVH
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3749634/
> 
> Do you think this would he a viable 'supplement' without reducing BP too much in those not susceptible
> 
> How this translates to me personally is I never have BP issues however we could all benefit from reducing the risk of LVH.


 I sure as hell want @ElChapo to weigh in, but the only thing I've seen (as in, in books) markedly reduce LVH is the eccentric LVH (i.e., stretching of the tissue) that comes with high volume LISS.

I know the standard recommendation is something like 30 mins 3x per week, but I personally think something more like double to triple year round that is required for meaningful benefits. I'll sure be interested to see my next MRI of the heart in a couple or three years' time to see if being bigger and continuing to use AAS has been markedly offset by 3-5 hours LISS a week (on top of everything else: weight training, grappling, and HIIT).


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo high hematocrit = more strength ?

When I'm at 54% hematocrit , I'm much stronger than when I'm at 50% for exemple.

Of course I don't feel good with 54% , I get shortness of breath and low back painful pumps BUT my strength on Benchpress is much better (10-15kg more)


----------



## jj1996

Baka said:


> @ElChapo high hematocrit = more strength ?
> 
> When I'm at 54% hematocrit , I'm much stronger than when I'm at 50% for exemple.
> 
> Of course I don't feel good with 54% , I get shortness of breath and low back painful pumps BUT my strength on Benchpress is much better (10-15kg more)


 Is that part about the high heamtocrit and lower back pumps legit? Where did you hear that from?


----------



## Baka

jj1996 said:


> Is that part about the high heamtocrit and lower back pumps legit? Where did you hear that from?


 I know from my experience


----------



## Robbie

What steps can I take with a low diastolic moderate systolic blood pressure? I understand that a large spread between the numbers isn't a good thing and low diastolic could give me issues later in life.

Yesterday I was at 128/55, possibly a little dehydrated as normal for me is more like 124/65.

I'm trying to do a bit more cardio and am dieting at the moment. Is my spread even an issue?


----------



## swole troll

arbffgadm100 said:


> I sure as hell want @ElChapo to weigh in, but the only thing I've seen (as in, in books) markedly reduce LVH is the eccentric LVH (i.e., stretching of the tissue) that comes with high volume LISS.
> 
> I know the standard recommendation is something like 30 mins 3x per week, but I personally think something more like double to triple year round that is required for meaningful benefits. I'll sure be interested to see my next MRI of the heart in a couple or three years' time to see if being bigger and continuing to use AAS has been markedly offset by 3-5 hours LISS a week (on top of everything else: weight training, grappling, and HIIT).


 I've kept cardio by way of LISS in year round for a couple years now

I'd rather just eat my calories back cut or bulk

during the peak of a bulk I may only do 20minutes LISS post wo followed by a 45 minute walk in the woods sometime later in the day but yes I am a big advocate of cardio year round for steroid users in particular.

Shame that the same 'lazy' mentality of *some* to not do cardio where possible is the same mentality that got them to take steroids in the first place and often the same mentality that drives them to use trenbolone and orals every single cycle.


----------



## Jas

Advice for keeping moon-face down? take more compounds, HGH, anavar, to change this?  or is just to keep estogen in check

If you get itchy nipples time to time, once a day, is that estrogen increasing, the same one that causes moon-face, in what you have seen before, or are they two different issues?

I could get aromasin to keep estrogen in check, but on TRT dose of 200mg test a week, 100mg every 4 days and 3 days


----------



## arbffgadm100

swole troll said:


> I've kept cardio by way of LISS in year round for a couple years now
> 
> I'd rather just eat my calories back cut or bulk
> 
> during the peak of a bulk I may only do 20minutes LISS post wo followed by a 45 minute walk in the woods sometime later in the day but yes I am a big advocate of cardio year round for steroid users in particular.
> 
> Shame that the same 'lazy' mentality of *some* to not do cardio where possible is the same mentality that got them to take steroids in the first place and often the same mentality that drives them to use trenbolone and orals every single cycle.


 The irony is, I feel fu**ing amazing when I do cardio. Even two weeks away from it (holiday, say) can make me feel very sluggish. And I swear to God I gain better, both muscle and strength. I think these people assume that if you're not doing half marathons every weekend you may as well not bother. And or that a hard set of squats that has you breathing out of your arse is "cardio", even though really it's a totally different energy system used to do the work, and you're just breathing hard for 2-3 minutes to try to aerobically recover ATP spent using the CP system, rather than because your aerobic system itself has been engaged and or taxed.


----------



## swole troll

arbffgadm100 said:


> The irony is, I feel fu**ing amazing when I do cardio. Even two weeks away from it (holiday, say) can make me feel very sluggish. And I swear to God I gain better, both muscle and strength. I think these people assume that if you're not doing half marathons every weekend you may as well not bother. And or that a hard set of squats that has you breathing out of your arse is "cardio", even though really it's a totally different energy system used to do the work, and you're just breathing hard for 2-3 minutes to try to aerobically recover ATP spent using the CP system, rather than because your aerobic system itself has been engaged and or taxed.


 Likewise

The psychological benefits and destressing effect is reason alone

I also find it helps with digestion and appetite.

And lol at people taking the absolute extreme, yes you will probably lose muscle doing 50 miles a week

Doing a few sessions of LISS will do nothing negative in regard to weight training progress and like you say more likely positives.


----------



## stewedw

swole troll said:


> Likewise
> 
> The psychological benefits and distressing effect is reason alone
> 
> I also find it helps with digestion and appetite.
> 
> And lol at people taking the absolute extreme, yes you will probably lose muscle doing 50 miles a week
> 
> Doing a few sessions of LISS will do nothing negative in regard to weight training progress and like you say more likely positives.


 I added it weekly in December due to higher than average BP readings. Side effects so far? Digestion is the best it's ever been, I'll spare you the details. Mood and consistency of feelgood are at an all time high, sleep also is great. Now I'm fairness, I have had two periods of 6-8 weeks where I have had zero alcohol since adding it instead of maybe one heavy session every three to four weeks for a ufc event efc. So that had certainly helped, but I'm genuinely shocked how happy I feel. I no longer dread it, and I do 40 mins sscv to shite dance music, heart rate 125-145bpm for the whole time, (I'm 39 in May) never after legs tho just cause I personally feel a bit sick after legs.

So yeah, that's my take on it. My bulk starts in three weeks and I'm looking forward to mixing it up a bit cardio wise sirh some hiit from time to time just so I don't get bored.


----------



## ElChapo

bailey1980 said:


> Don't take creatine mate
> 
> i eat quite a lot of meat this my main source of protien plus I have a protien bar everday aswell


 How much meat? A pound or more a day?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -potassium supplement on test cycle useful even if sodium levels are in range?
> 
> -Does Nizoral protect your hair against DHT compounds like anavar/masteron ?


 I don't recommend messing with potassium supplementation. Some people do it.

Yes, i have seen good effect from nizoral during winstrol/masteron useage. It blocks androgen receptors, so it's effect against all androgens including DHT. Unlike finasteride which only inhibits testosterone to DHT conversion.


----------



## ElChapo

NullPointer said:


> I ran my raw genome through the promethease website you wrote about on a post a few hundreds pages back just out of pure curiosity and I'm just a bit of a data geek anyway.
> 
> I have the (C;T) version of ACTN3 gene is this good for weight lifting and strength training?
> 
> Also is there any good ones to check on for male pattern baldness that would indicate how prone I am to balding etc?
> 
> Really interesting stuff though so thanks for pointing that site out. :thumb
> 
> View attachment 180441


 It's a Hybrid gene, so not the best endurance or power but a mix of both.

There are a few balding ones. You can type "baldness" or "balding" in the search bar or check out snpedia.com


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i suspect my blood pressure may be creeping up, i seem to recall you recommending a good and cheap blood pressure monitor? I can't find the post tho
> 
> Edit: HGH has always given me sort of heavy breathing, but lately sometimes when talking and thus holding my breath, I have been feeling a bit like I'm lacking air/being a bit out of breath.
> 
> I thought it could have something to do with blood pressure? No idea tho


 Omron 3 or Omron bronze, prices have gone up since demand is high. They used to go for 30 USD.

It's possible, could be higher BP/higher hematocrit. How much HGH are you taking daily?


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> What would you recommend for someone who has a high LDL: HDL cholesterol on TRT.
> 
> Test shows LDL : HDL ratio as 4.5 when the range is 1.5-3.5. It consistently stays around this number no matter how clean he eats(Saturated fats also in control) or do regular cardio. What you would suggest?
> 
> Regards


 Generally; not to worry about it. Do regular cardio, control your BP, don't smoke and stay under 15% body fat year round. People haven't gotten any healthier since statins were introduced and they have many negative health effects.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hey buddy...
> 
> I've been doing a bit of research on a peptide called GHK-Cu and its pretty incredible effects re anti aging, anti oxidation of LDL, etc.. It also appears to help protect skin from UV radiation, stimulate wound healing, and a ton of other stuff.
> 
> Do you know much about it?
> 
> Thanks


 Nope


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 2nd question...
> 
> What do you think about the notion of stacking HGH and ipamorelin (for its selective benefits and natural production stimulation)?
> 
> I could go into my rationale, but before I bore you with the details, could you give it an indicative thumbs up/down?
> 
> Thank you!


 Nope, just take HGH at the dosage required. Keep it simple.

Natural HGH production always recovers once you stop. It's not the same as the testes/testosterone axis.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo I sent a pm to you, didn't want to clog the thread. Wanted your feedback on it if possible


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> What are your thoughts on telmisartan and it's effect on reversing LVH
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3749634/
> 
> Do you think this would he a viable 'supplement' without reducing BP too much in those not susceptible
> 
> How this translates to me personally is I never have BP issues however we could all benefit from reducing the risk of LVH.


 Looks promising and these class of BP med is less likely to cause side effects like ED/libido issues.

LVH is an expected consequence of heavy lifting+Androgen useage. Androgens tend to thicken and grow cardiac muscle cells. The pathological version is caused by hypertension and poor cardiovascular function, atherosclerosis, etc.

So the important question is ; Is the type of LVH you are trying to reverse pathological or benign? That's a question the medical community is still trying to figure out. How do we distinguish this difference in athletes? If you have good cardiovascular fitness, i would err on the side that it's the benign form, and you can further investigate with exercise stress testing, EKG, ECG, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo high hematocrit = more strength ?
> 
> When I'm at 54% hematocrit , I'm much stronger than when I'm at 50% for exemple.
> 
> Of course I don't feel good with 54% , I get shortness of breath and low back painful pumps BUT my strength on Benchpress is much better (10-15kg more)


 I doubt it, what you may be feeling is the weakness that happens after donating blood. Related to losing blood volume and/or iron . It's possible though but i would lean towards the former reasoning.


----------



## Djibril

Hello mate i would like to ask you a question regarding my ferritin levels .

I donated for the first time in years probably around 2-3 weeks ago and just had a bloodwork and my ferritin levels are sitting at 42 on a range of 22-322 .

Would you see it beneficial supplementing with Iron bisglycinate + Vit C ?

Does iron supplementation increases Hematocrit levels?


----------



## ElChapo

Robbie said:


> What steps can I take with a low diastolic moderate systolic blood pressure? I understand that a large spread between the numbers isn't a good thing and low diastolic could give me issues later in life.
> 
> Yesterday I was at 128/55, possibly a little dehydrated as normal for me is more like 124/65.
> 
> I'm trying to do a bit more cardio and am dieting at the moment. Is my spread even an issue?


 You are fine. I would not worry about Systolic unless it's 140 and over.

Systolic is your BP during systole, which is when the heart contracts. Diastolic is the blood pressure during diastole, when the heart muscle relaxes. Your levels are fine.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> I've kept cardio by way of LISS in year round for a couple years now
> 
> I'd rather just eat my calories back cut or bulk
> 
> during the peak of a bulk I may only do 20minutes LISS post wo followed by a 45 minute walk in the woods sometime later in the day but yes I am a big advocate of cardio year round for steroid users in particular.
> 
> Shame that the same 'lazy' mentality of *some* to not do cardio where possible is the same mentality that got them to take steroids in the first place and often the same mentality that drives them to use trenbolone and orals every single cycle.


 Some light cardio has many direct benefits for training and muscle building as well. Better intra set and intra day recovery, better endurance (more reps/less fatigue) , better nutrient partitioning, more glycogen, etc.


----------



## bailey1980

ElChapo said:


> How much meat? A pound or more a day?


 Probably not far off that pound mark pal


----------



## ElChapo

Jas said:


> Advice for keeping moon-face down? take more compounds, HGH, anavar, to change this?  or is just to keep estogen in check
> 
> If you get itchy nipples time to time, once a day, is that estrogen increasing, the same one that causes moon-face, in what you have seen before, or are they two different issues?
> 
> I could get aromasin to keep estrogen in check, but on TRT dose of 200mg test a week, 100mg every 4 days and 3 days


 No, no and no.

It's not related to estrogen most of the time.

Don't use cypionate or enanthate for testosteorne. Propionate will cause less water retention and no moon face. Try it and see.

Stay well-hydrated, do regular cardio (light/moderate, too intense will cause elevate cortisol ; more bloat), finally get lean; under 13% body fat.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Omron 3 or Omron bronze, prices have gone up since demand is high. They used to go for 30 USD.
> 
> It's possible, could be higher BP/higher hematocrit. How much HGH are you taking daily?


 Not much, 4 iu daily subc when waking up.

I never had these mild breathing problems before. Body fat has also only gone down over the last twelve months

It did start occuring around the same time as i started injection in the morning tho, instead of before bed?

Also not sure how relevant but during this period I have also increased my eggs and meat consumption.

However, I'm also currently sick so might aswell be Corona related lol.

I will keep an eye on it and consider getting a BP monitor


----------



## Jas

ElChapo said:


> No, no and no.
> 
> It's not related to estrogen most of the time.
> 
> Don't use cypionate or enanthate for testosteorne. Propionate will cause less water retention and no moon face. Try it and see.
> 
> Stay well-hydrated, do regular cardio (light/moderate, too intense will cause elevate cortisol ; more bloat), finally get lean; under 13% body fat.


 I did not notice moon face on prop, so your right there. However, with Rohm Labs Prop, the PIP was very painful. I have spoken to a few, and its not the carrier oil a lab uses. Prop is notorious is for causing very PIP on lots of people.

I can put links in of other forums, if its allowed. But it is commonly known. You know why post injection pain is bad on Prop?


----------



## Jas

GH Gut, do you get it, or what are you using / taking to reduce GH gut ? are you using ALA, metformin?

What tips do you have, to reduce GH gut,

As you know, with bodybuilders and non, its the relaxed-look really shows

Dorian yates had it, but then came of the GH / Insulin, etc, and his GH gut went, so its not permanent,

any thoughts....tips?

Thanks,


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Jas said:


> GH Gut, do you get it, or what are you using / taking to reduce GH gut ? are you using ALA, metformin?
> 
> What tips do you have, to reduce GH gut,
> 
> As you know, with bodybuilders and non, its the relaxed-look really shows
> 
> Dorian yates had it, but then came of the GH / Insulin, etc, and his GH gut went, so its not permanent,
> 
> any thoughts....tips?
> 
> Thanks,


 Dorian blames insulin


----------



## Jas

Dannyb0yb said:


> Dorian blames insulin


 Dorian blames Insulin for ruining his physique, and he was 8IU GH a day. I bet your'll have / get GH gut without being on Insulin even on 2IU a day. You'll also be insulin resistance,


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Jas said:


> Dorian blames Insulin for ruining his physique, and he was 8IU GH a day. I bet your'll have / get GH gut without being on Insulin even on 2IU a day. You'll also be insulin resistance,


 Walt what? 2 iu a day gives GH gut? You must be crazy

I have been on peptides and HGH for years, my blood glucose levels are perfect

Where are you reading those scare stories?


----------



## Sam R

ElChapo said:


> Looks promising and these class of BP med is less likely to cause side effects like ED/libido issues.
> 
> LVH is an expected consequence of heavy lifting+Androgen useage. Androgens tend to thicken and grow cardiac muscle cells. The pathological version is caused by hypertension and poor cardiovascular function, atherosclerosis, etc.
> 
> So the important question is ; Is the type of LVH you are trying to reverse pathological or benign? That's a question the medical community is still trying to figure out. How do we distinguish this difference in athletes? If you have good cardiovascular fitness, i would err on the side that it's the benign form, and you can further investigate with exercise stress testing, EKG, ECG, etc.


 Just to elaborate on this, is LVH caused by training more dangerous than LVH caused by high blood pressure? I know that excess cardiac muscle can interfere with electrical pathways in the heart and cause problems with heart rhythm, in the most extreme cases - death.


----------



## ElChapo

Jas said:


> I did not notice moon face on prop, so your right there. However, with Rohm Labs Prop, the PIP was very painful. I have spoken to a few, and its not the carrier oil a lab uses. Prop is notorious is for causing very PIP on lots of people.
> 
> I can put links in of other forums, if its allowed. But it is commonly known. You know why post injection pain is bad on Prop?


 Prop will not PIP if brewed correctly and NOT injected SQ. Never inject prop SQ.

Overdosed prop or prop that doesn't have the proper solvent ratio can PIP. If made correctly, it does not PIP as long as it doesn't go SQ.

"I can put links in of other forums, if its allowed. But it is commonly known." You think i don't know this? ?

Short esters don't hold in solution as easily as long esters. This is why concentration per mL is much lower with Prop/PP versus Enanthate/Cypionates. This means the hormone is more likely to crash out of solution and crystalize in your muscle; causing pain and inflammation (especially in SQ tissue)


----------



## ElChapo

Jas said:


> GH Gut, do you get it, or what are you using / taking to reduce GH gut ? are you using ALA, metformin?
> 
> What tips do you have, to reduce GH gut,
> 
> As you know, with bodybuilders and non, its the relaxed-look really shows
> 
> Dorian yates had it, but then came of the GH / Insulin, etc, and his GH gut went, so its not permanent,
> 
> any thoughts....tips?
> 
> Thanks,


 Not a concern for most people using GH. Seems to be a combo of eating tons of food, insulin useage and high doses of HGH. It could be organ growth and/or visceral fat accumulation. Those using <5 IU daily without slin don't have anything to worry about.

For those using slin/high doses HGH, mastering vacuum technique and making the transverse abdominus (vacuum muscle) very strong helps a ton. As long as the vacuum is being done, most can conceal a bad GH gut, it's when you relax that it comes out. Ab muscles can also "pop" out naturally, so this likely contributes to the condition.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> Just to elaborate on this, is LVH caused by training more dangerous than LVH caused by high blood pressure? I know that excess cardiac muscle can interfere with electrical pathways in the heart and cause problems with heart rhythm, in the most extreme cases - death.


 No, athletes can get a benign version of LVH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello mate i would like to ask you a question regarding my ferritin levels .
> 
> I donated for the first time in years probably around 2-3 weeks ago and just had a bloodwork and my ferritin levels are sitting at 42 on a range of 22-322 .
> 
> Would you see it beneficial supplementing with Iron bisglycinate + Vit C ?
> 
> Does iron supplementation increases Hematocrit levels?


 Yes, especially if you plan on donating again in the future. You want to at least be in the 70-100 range

Iron can increase HCT if there is a defiency. You are going to be playing a game of cat and mouse if you don't directly address the cause of your elevated HCT (if this is an issue for you)


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Yes, especially if you plan on donating again in the future. You want to at least be in the 70-100 range
> 
> Iron can increase HCT if there is a defiency. You are going to be playing a game of cat and mouse if you don't directly address the cause of your elevated HCT (if this is an issue for you)


 To be honest it wasnt really high. Hct was at 48, just donated for the sake of it.

Been on test for 5 months, first month's on TRT, last 2 months on 250 mgs weekly.

I would guess that on a higher dose probably the hematocrit goes up but dont know for certain. Will keep running bloodword every few months to see where im at.

What are your recommendations long term? Given that i will be blasting and cruising. Should i add an iron supplement and follow closely my hct levels?


----------



## Jas

Dannyb0yb said:


> Walt what? 2 iu a day gives GH gut? You must be crazy
> 
> I have been on peptides and HGH for years, my blood glucose levels are perfect
> 
> Where are you reading those scare stories?


 Take as much as you want. Your crazy for creating your own problems. Sort them out before you call people crazy, idiot.

"Not much, 4 iu daily subc when waking up.

I never had these mild breathing problems before. Body fat has also only gone down over the last twelve months

It did start occuring around the same time as i started injection in the morning tho, instead of before bed?

Also not sure how relevant but during this period I have also increased my eggs and meat consumption.

However, I'm also currently sick so might aswell be Corona related lol.

I will keep an eye on it and consider getting a BP monitor


----------



## Dannyb0yb

Jas said:


> Take as much as you want. Your crazy for creating your own problems. Sort them out before you call people crazy, idiot.
> 
> "Not much, 4 iu daily subc when waking up.
> 
> I never had these mild breathing problems before. Body fat has also only gone down over the last twelve months
> 
> It did start occuring around the same time as i started injection in the morning tho, instead of before bed?
> 
> Also not sure how relevant but during this period I have also increased my eggs and meat consumption.
> 
> However, I'm also currently sick so might aswell be Corona related lol.
> 
> I will keep an eye on it and consider getting a BP monitor


 What does mild Corona related issues have to do with HGH related roid-gut or insulin issues?

Seems like you are here to scare people or make personal attacks, and not actually accumulate honest knowledge on hormones?

You stated that 2 iu would give me diabetes, both I and elchapo correct you, stating that anything below 5 iu is pretty safe, you ignore this and start making personal attacks? Well played sir


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> To be honest it wasnt really high. Hct was at 48, just donated for the sake of it.
> 
> Been on test for 5 months, first month's on TRT, last 2 months on 250 mgs weekly.
> 
> I would guess that on a higher dose probably the hematocrit goes up but dont know for certain. Will keep running bloodword every few months to see where im at.
> 
> What are your recommendations long term? Given that i will be blasting and cruising. Should i add an iron supplement and follow closely my hct levels?


 Follow closely until you get a feel for it. Many people don't run into HCT issues at all. There's a genetic and lifestyle component. Those with undiagnosed sleep apnea get it frequently.

Just keep it under 54% and you will be fine. Keep your ferritin +60


----------



## shay1490

how are my bloods looking

been running 600mg test e for about 10 weeks


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate, I'm currently bulking I'm around 15percent body maybe a bit lower, but want to do a mini aggressive cut for a for around2-3 week. Before carrying on with my bulk.

So far I have been using 150mg test

I wanted to start a tren e cycle for the remainder of my bulk, my question is if I pin today and also start the defecit today for the next 2 or 3weeks before going back Into a bulk would muscle loss be likely? As the tren e wouldn't have built up yet on my time in a deficit?

Defecit is going to be 1500 cals(3lbs a week aim)

As always, thank you


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Cardio and fat loss for cardiovascular health and protection. Pycnogenol/cocoa extract or dark chocolate. 2.5-5 mg cialis is potent as well. May reverse endothelial damage (based on murine studies)


 Will pycnogenol help against corona virus you think?

Will any AAS help against the virus?
Any AAS that could worsen the immune system or any AAS that you wouldnt recommend to use during these times?

What do you think of mk677 - what are the benifits/down sides?


----------



## ElChapo

shay1490 said:


> how are my bloods looking
> 
> been running 600mg test e for about 10 weeks
> 
> View attachment 180745


 Looks fine, what are you trying to get from these labs?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate, I'm currently bulking I'm around 15percent body maybe a bit lower, but want to do a mini aggressive cut for a for around2-3 week. Before carrying on with my bulk.
> 
> So far I have been using 150mg test
> 
> I wanted to start a tren e cycle for the remainder of my bulk, my question is if I pin today and also start the defecit today for the next 2 or 3weeks before going back Into a bulk would muscle loss be likely? As the tren e wouldn't have built up yet on my time in a deficit?
> 
> Defecit is going to be 1500 cals(3lbs a week aim)
> 
> As always, thank you


 No, you're fine.

That's a very heavy deficit, i would not go past 1000 daily cal deficit or 40% deficit. You are very likely to lose muscle and strength and feel like dogshit.

In your shoes, i would rather do a cut down to 9-10% and then slow/lean bulk into 12-13%, rinse and repeat. This way you will always be lean and only be a short cut away from being very lean again. That's my recommended approach, you look and feel good all year.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Will pycnogenol help against corona virus you think?
> 
> Will any AAS help against the virus?
> Any AAS that could worsen the immune system or any AAS that you wouldnt recommend to use during these times?
> 
> What do you think of mk677 - what are the benifits/down sides?


 Eh, maybe. Heavy ginger use will help with inflammation/malaise/fatigue. Best way to tackle this is vitamin C/Zinc/Vitamin D and a lot of rest/relaxation and staying hydrated.

AAS are believe to worse the immune system which is why men have worse cold/flu symptoms.

MK677 can cause a lot of water retention/hunger in some people, may cause pre-diabetes in others as well. It may have some potential for wound healing and bulking.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Eh, maybe. Heavy ginger use will help with inflammation/malaise/fatigue. Best way to tackle this is vitamin C/Zinc/Vitamin D and a lot of rest/relaxation and staying hydrated.
> 
> AAS are believe to worse the immune system which is why men have worse cold/flu symptoms.
> 
> MK677 can cause a lot of water retention/hunger in some people, may cause pre-diabetes in others as well. It may have some potential for wound healing and bulking.


 "Heavy ginger use" How much is that? Should I supplemment with it or how much you suggest?

Is tren worse than test/deca when speaking of covid-19, as tren can cause some breathing problems, or do you think its all the same?

As for mk677, so you saying it doesnt have any direct benifits for muscle building?

Metformin - good or bad for bodybuilding? I see its nice for insulin but it may have side effects for muscle building aight?

Masteron - I dont really get this compound. It seems expensive and doesnt really do much? I mean if you want to bulk, then rather for test/deca/oxy or winny instead of test/deca/mast, much cheaper and more effective? Can you explain to me why so many people use this compound so often? I always see people doing test/deca/mast or test/tren/mast - but why?


----------



## Towel

@ElChapo

Got bloods back after being on a cruise for about 7 weeks now

Most markers are fine but my HCT is 0.53 so a bit high, planned to donate again but my ferritin is very low based on what I've read here

Im not allowed to do at for another 6 weeks, Would supplementing iron while waiting to donate risk my HCT level go through the roof?

Any advice appreciated


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> Hi @ElChapo i want to start accutane for the first time, i am currently on 100mg per day doxycline (antibiotic) but this dident help my acne. I been on it for around 3 months.
> 
> can i start straight on the accutane or do i have to wait for the antibiotics to clear my system? I dont know how long this might take, i might of seen online that dont take accutane until 6 months after last antibiotics but i hope i misread! Please advise, thankyou
> 
> lastly would you know if laser tattoo removal would be a very bad ideal while on accutane??


 How bad is the acne? Tretinoin cream is a very good alternative and can work just as well in many cases.

Otherwise,

Taking doxi with accutane can cause intracranial pressure.

I wouldn't do laser tattoo removal on accutane, it makes the skin very sensitive. I would look into tretinoin in the meantime and take that for at least 6 months. It is very effective and safer than accutane. If you want to use accutane, one week is enough time for it to get out of your system (the doxi)


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> "Heavy ginger use" How much is that? Should I supplemment with it or how much you suggest?
> 
> Is tren worse than test/deca when speaking of covid-19, as tren can cause some breathing problems, or do you think its all the same?
> 
> As for mk677, so you saying it doesnt have any direct benifits for muscle building?
> 
> Metformin - good or bad for bodybuilding? I see its nice for insulin but it may have side effects for muscle building aight?
> 
> Masteron - I dont really get this compound. It seems expensive and doesnt really do much? I mean if you want to bulk, then rather for test/deca/oxy or winny instead of test/deca/mast, much cheaper and more effective? Can you explain to me why so many people use this compound so often? I always see people doing test/deca/mast or test/tren/mast - but why?


 Just use a lot, ginger candies, ginger powder, ginger soda (the real stuff with ginger in it). There's not exact dose.

Tren is probably a bad idea, stronger androgen and can affect cardiovascular capacity.

I didn't say it has no benefits for bodybuilding, if i recall, i said it could work on a bulk due to increase in appetite and increase in IGF.

Metformin might actually decreases muscle anabolism through mtor mechanism. It might also enhance it in the right context (maybe with GH or peptides). We don't really know.

Masteron; If you want to polish the physique while enhancing strength/muscle; winstrol and superdrol do it better. It has a slight polishing effect, not much effect on muscle building or strength. It might free up some testosterone and some people get libido and mood boost from it.


----------



## ElChapo

Towel said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Got bloods back after being on a cruise for about 7 weeks now
> 
> Most markers are fine but my HCT is 0.53 so a bit high, planned to donate again but my ferritin is very low based on what I've read here
> 
> Im not allowed to do at for another 6 weeks, Would supplementing iron while waiting to donate risk my HCT level go through the roof?
> 
> Any advice appreciated
> 
> View attachment 180797
> 
> 
> View attachment 180799


 Yes, you want to aggressively get your ferritin back to 70-100 and be very careful with donating. I would not worry about your HCT unless it's over 53%. Being anemic is really bad and can affect your mood/libido/wellbeing as well.

It can take 8-12 weeks to get ferritin back up, so start ASAP and don't donate until it's high again.


----------



## Towel

ElChapo said:


> Yes, you want to aggressively get your ferritin back to 70-100 and be very careful with donating. I would not worry about your HCT unless it's over 53%. Being anemic is really bad and can affect your mood/libido/wellbeing as well.
> 
> It can take 8-12 weeks to get ferritin back up, so start ASAP and don't donate until it's high again.


 HCT says 0.53 L/L, take it that's the same as 53%?

Picked up some Iron bisglycinate with vitamin C, each capsule is 18mg of iron so take 4 (72mg), Would you say thats enough or should I be taking more

Thanks for help


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Just use a lot, ginger candies, ginger powder, ginger soda (the real stuff with ginger in it). There's not exact dose.
> 
> Tren is probably a bad idea, stronger androgen and can affect cardiovascular capacity.
> 
> I didn't say it has no benefits for bodybuilding, if i recall, i said it could work on a bulk due to increase in appetite and increase in IGF.
> 
> Metformin might actually decreases muscle anabolism through mtor mechanism. It might also enhance it in the right context (maybe with GH or peptides). We don't really know.
> 
> Masteron; If you want to polish the physique while enhancing strength/muscle; winstrol and superdrol do it better. It has a slight polishing effect, not much effect on muscle building or strength. It might free up some testosterone and some people get libido and mood boost from it.


 once again, thx for detailed answer.

I absoluty hate the taste of ginger, but will try implementing it.

As for metformin, would you stay clear of it, or would you implement it in a tren cycle or maybe with GH? Or is the side effects you mention to great, that you would never use it for bodybuilding purpose?

I know many people stack mast with deca or tren, is this just to decrease side effects somehow? Whats the lowest dose mast you recommend in a bulking cycle? I also know a lot of powerlifters use masteron, is the strength gains from it noticeable?


----------



## ElChapo

Towel said:


> HCT says 0.53 L/L, take it that's the same as 53%?
> 
> Picked up some Iron bisglycinate with vitamin C, each capsule is 18mg of iron so take 4 (72mg), Would you say thats enough or should I be taking more
> 
> Thanks for help


 Yes

Take 3-4 caps, x 2-3 times daily, 8 weeks and re-test.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> Hi @El Chapo yeh its quite bad but not the worst, i will look into the cream but dont really want to be on something for 6 months so will probably go for the accutane, thanks for clarifying i should wait a week after the doxi!
> 
> would you say getting laser tattoo with doxi is as bad as with accutane as my last laser session i was on doxi and i survived, iv got my next session in a few weeks but eager to start accutane!this is my acne if it matters
> 
> View attachment 180909


 Doxi will not interfere with the laser removal. For that kind of acne, accutane is a better idea than the cream.

Just note that accutane will make acne worse before it gets better, this is known as "purging", this means it's working.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> once again, thx for detailed answer.
> 
> I absoluty hate the taste of ginger, but will try implementing it.
> 
> As for metformin, would you stay clear of it, or would you implement it in a tren cycle or maybe with GH? Or is the side effects you mention to great, that you would never use it for bodybuilding purpose?
> 
> I know many people stack mast with deca or tren, is this just to decrease side effects somehow? Whats the lowest dose mast you recommend in a bulking cycle? I also know a lot of powerlifters use masteron, is the strength gains from it noticeable?


 I stick to the old school because it works. Never found a need to add new things constantly, as is popular nowadays. To me, they are just a distraction from the tried and true fundamentals that have built monstrous and/or aesthetic physiques for over half a century. That's my take on this stuff.

I wouldn't run it myself and can't recommend it because i don't know if it will be detrimental or positive. That's just me. You could always guinea pig yourself and find out, i'd rather spend that time building muscle or torching fat the tried and true way.

Noticeable strength gains? Not at all. Some people feel it helps with trenbolone/deca side effects, others do not. In my opinion, it's a waste of syringe space and $.


----------



## Towel

ElChapo said:


> Yes
> 
> Take 3-4 caps, x 2-3 times daily, 8 weeks and re-test.


 Wow

Just to confirm I'd be taking about 160-240mg iron a day.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I stick to the old school because it works. Never found a need to add new things constantly, as is popular nowadays. To me, they are just a distraction from the tried and true fundamentals that have built monstrous and/or aesthetic physiques for over half a century. That's my take on this stuff.
> 
> I wouldn't run it myself and can't recommend it because i don't know if it will be detrimental or positive. That's just me. You could always guinea pig yourself and find out, i'd rather spend that time building muscle or torching fat the tried and true way.
> 
> Noticeable strength gains? Not at all. Some people feel it helps with trenbolone/deca side effects, others do not. In my opinion, it's a waste of syringe space and $.


 Thx

As for masteron - why do powerlifters use this compound if its mostly a cosmetic?


----------



## Redsy

My docs did some bloods.

Alt levels come out at 42 and CRP at 15.

Must say she is very thorough and is wanting more detailed bloods panel specifically related to liver. What will these be? Will they be able to tell steroid use?

These tests were 8-10 weeks of test/tren/mast 400/200/200 and some winny or anavar PWO probably 3/4 x week.

Am taking following started 2 weeks ago. test p/EQ/tren a 150/200/150 at minute, will drop tren in 2 weeks and continue test/eq for probably another 12weeks, then on to 125 test p only.

Thoughts on levels and if alt levels on above will improve worsen and if specific liver panel can spot steroids

Many thanks as always.


----------



## arbffgadm100

zariph said:


> Thx
> 
> As for masteron - why do powerlifters use this compound if its mostly a cosmetic?


 Strength athletes in general that compete in weight classes use it because it isn't a "wet" compound and doesn't pump you full of glycogen (that for a 1RM attempt you really don't need). It's also a DHT androgen which means it doesn't require an AI, it brings neural qualities (strength and supposedly skill acquisition), both of which are handy. It's also extremely mild in side effect, both in terms of feel (lethargy, disgestion, etc) and blood work, which means you can mega dose it more easily than you might be able to with say, test or deca or tren.


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate back again for couple of qs

Firstly all other values came back normal except these kidney values came back normal except these two and also liver all okay except this one and not sure on what others are

eGFRcreat (CKD-EPI)/1.73 m*2

Result*86 mL/min/1.73m^2*

Serum creatinine

Result*104 umol/L*

Normal range*59 - 104 umol/L*

Serum ALT level

Result*99 u/L*

Normal range*10 - 35 u/L*

Mean corpusc. Hb. conc. (MCHC)

Result*351 g/L*

Normal range*315 - 350 g/L*

Monocyte count

Result*0.9 10*9/L*

Normal range*0.2 - 0.8 10*9/L*

Iknow creatinine is just in range but it's literally at top end... is it concerning or is that to do with diet/muscle mass

Also the gfr looks low what is your opinion?

Second question is about oils. I always though if you stuck a vial in the fridge it would crystallise. If it doesn't does that mean it's bunk or just more solvent has been used?

Thank you as always


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> My docs did some bloods.
> 
> Alt levels come out at 42 and CRP at 15.
> 
> Must say she is very thorough and is wanting more detailed bloods panel specifically related to liver. What will these be? Will they be able to tell steroid use?
> 
> These tests were 8-10 weeks of test/tren/mast 400/200/200 and some winny or anavar PWO probably 3/4 x week.
> 
> Am taking following started 2 weeks ago. test p/EQ/tren a 150/200/150 at minute, will drop tren in 2 weeks and continue test/eq for probably another 12weeks, then on to 125 test p only.
> 
> Thoughts on levels and if alt levels on above will improve worsen and if specific liver panel can spot steroids
> 
> Many thanks as always.


 No doctor will be able to confirm steroid use unless they piss or blood test you for the compounds. If you are muscular and your liver enzymes are super high, they might suspect it, but that's it. Liver enzymes can be elevated from a night of heavy drinking, tons of exercise, and even medications like tylenol.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> Ok @El Chapo so if i did get the laser while on accutane would you say id be in deep s**t?
> 
> thanks so much for your helpful advice, what is your profession, Are u a doctor? Just curious, this will be my last questions thanks pal


 Nobody knows, you might get a bad skin reaction or inflammation/slow healing or you might be completely fine. The risk is yours.

I am an endocrine nurse specialist, and not a doctor by choice (schooling takes too long/already making more money than i need in my current occupation).


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate back again for couple of qs
> 
> Firstly all other values came back normal except these kidney values came back normal except these two and also liver all okay except this one and not sure on what others are
> 
> eGFRcreat (CKD-EPI)/1.73 m*2
> 
> Result*86 mL/min/1.73m^2*
> 
> Serum creatinine
> 
> Result*104 umol/L*
> 
> Normal range*59 - 104 umol/L*
> 
> Serum ALT level
> 
> Result*99 u/L*
> 
> Normal range*10 - 35 u/L*
> 
> Mean corpusc. Hb. conc. (MCHC)
> 
> Result*351 g/L*
> 
> Normal range*315 - 350 g/L*
> 
> Monocyte count
> 
> Result*0.9 10*9/L*
> 
> Normal range*0.2 - 0.8 10*9/L*
> 
> Iknow creatinine is just in range but it's literally at top end... is it concerning or is that to do with diet/muscle mass
> 
> Also the gfr looks low what is your opinion?
> 
> Second question is about oils. I always though if you stuck a vial in the fridge it would crystallise. If it doesn't does that mean it's bunk or just more solvent has been used?
> 
> Thank you as always


 Perfectly fine, your GFR is great.

It doesn't guarantee it will crystalize, not sure though, never tried. You could also try sticking in the freezer but not long enough to freeze it.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i remember you talking about the negative health risks of having low igf 1 levels while being being adult?

Ie going through adult life with low levels. Could you elaborate on that?


----------



## Ironman TS

@El Chapo Any thoughts on effective supplements for Kidney protection?


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate.

I started cutting nearly two weeks ago in order to get under 10% before starting a blast/bulk... However now the gyms are closed so no weights = no maitnanance. Would bodyweight training be enough to maintain muscle during a cut whilst on a cruise? Or will I lose a large amount of muscle from doing this. (I have no room for equipment and all bands are currently out of stock so bodyweight would be only option)

Thank you


----------



## aaron118

Hi @El Chapo, Sorry if you've already been asked this but what are your realistic thoughts on how long gyms are likely to be closed? We are probably talking months right?

I know many are saying just take this as a time to rest your body and do bodyweight exercises etc. But I've already missed a large part of training over the past year due to some injuries etc. and now I'm back making good progress and loving it (well I was up until two weeks ago when the gyms here closed, I live in Spain).

I have the means and space, so I'm thinking to invest in a power rack, adjustable bench, barbell, and plates etc. I already have a pull-up bar and a pair of 10kg and 20kg DBs. With all this, all compound movements (and many isolation exercises with the DBs) can obviously still be done, and effective training can still be carried out. I'm willing to kit this out in my lounge as I have quite a big apartment and live alone and structurally it should be quite safe based near a wall. I obviously won't be doing anything like deadlifts to cause noise as I don't live on the ground floor. My plan would be to sell it all once this is all over as it isn't feasible to keep a power rack in my lounge forever and I have a great gym just 5 minutes walk away. Crazy idea haha? I'd just hate to buy all this and then have the gyms reopen in a month, but from what I'm reading, public places such as gyms could be closed for many months. I normally work from home anyway and feel being able to continue with proper training will help keep me sane during this lockdown (I'm used to being home alone, that part doesn't bother me).

Hope you and your family are safe stateside.


----------



## pma111

If you had to recommend maybe top 5 supps for immune system support what would they be.


----------



## Ironman TS

pma111 said:


> If you had to recommend maybe top 5 supps for immune system support what would they be.


 Topical!


----------



## Oldnewb

HI. recently had a liver function test. All came back OK except ALT, figure was 100

Plan on cruising for a while anyway but will injecting test have any effect on the ALT level?


----------



## Redsy

I have 20-30 shots of 75iu HMG. Missus was given it 8years ago for IVF.

Does it go out of date?

Can I use instead of HCG to just keep balls intact whilst on TRT and/or cycle? What protocol to just keep them ticking along.....not needing fertility!!!


----------



## Lancashiregent

pma111 said:


> If you had to recommend maybe top 5 supps for immune system support what would they be.


 Elderberry juice, Vitamin C and I have heard a lot of good things about colloidal silver


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I've got some T3 left from 2-3 years ago , and I was wondering if that would be a good idea to use it the next 4-6 weeks.

My goal is to go to 8% , I'm at 11.5% bf atm but I'm gaining fat since we can't go outside since 2 weeks now.

I try to train at least 1 hour a day and do some light cardio , eating a little bit less but I still gain fat , I may eat even less but would T3 at 37.5mcg would help much ?

I'm on 250mg test .


----------



## strengthnsize

pma111 said:


> If you had to recommend maybe top 5 supps for immune system support what would they be.


 Vitamin C, Zinc (not oxide form) & Vitamin D in that order.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i remember you talking about the negative health risks of having low igf 1 levels while being being adult?
> 
> Ie going through adult life with low levels. Could you elaborate on that?


 It's complicated, lower IGF might reduce the risk of cancer and might extend lifespan, at the cost of possibly reduced health/vigor/aesthetics. It's a complicated topic, but skin aging/wrinkling is linked to lower IGF and Estradiol in humans. It's not that IGF increases cancer risk either as young people have the highest IGF levels with the lowest rates of cancer.

To be pragmatic, the ideal approach would be to maintain IGF levels in the physiological optimal range, in the mid to high 200s or low 300s. To maximize benefits and reduce side effects/health risks. I find the HGH greatly increases my concentration and memory. That is another proven benefit of IGF, brain health, as it can increase BDNF activity and promote neuron health among other positive effects. Low levels of IGF in adulthood may lead to premature skin aging, loss of concentration, weaker muscles, poorer body composition and other things. IGF-1 is like a youth hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

Ironman TS said:


> @El Chapo Any thoughts on effective supplements for Kidney protection?


 There isn't really anything you take for "kidney protection" because the only things that commonly hurt the kidneys are high blood pressure and high blood sugar. So if you control your BP and blood glucose, your kidneys will be safe. Hypothyroidism can also lead to sluggish kidney function.

Anabolic steroids are only toxic to kidneys "in vitro" which means test tube studies on cells. In real life, they are not harmful to kidneys directly, but can affect kidney health if they lead to high blood pressure.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate.
> 
> I started cutting nearly two weeks ago in order to get under 10% before starting a blast/bulk... However now the gyms are closed so no weights = no maitnanance. Would bodyweight training be enough to maintain muscle during a cut whilst on a cruise? Or will I lose a large amount of muscle from doing this. (I have no room for equipment and all bands are currently out of stock so bodyweight would be only option)
> 
> Thank you


 Good question

If you are taking AAS and/or HGH , your risk of muscle loss is much less. There is research that very high rep to failure body weight exercise is a decent preserver of muscle tissue even in weight lifters. Your best bet is to hit all body parts hard with multiple sets and make sure to eat maintenance calories/sufficient protein. Something like 3-6 sets of push ups to failure x 2 -3 times per week, should do the job for your chest, shoulders, triceps. It takes about 3-4 weeks of zero training to start losing muscle, so this will help extend that period and once you start lifting again, you will gain your size/muscle/strength back rapidly thanks to muscle memory.

Push ups, jump squats, crunches, chin ups


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> Hi @El Chapo, Sorry if you've already been asked this but what are your realistic thoughts on how long gyms are likely to be closed? We are probably talking months right?
> 
> I know many are saying just take this as a time to rest your body and do bodyweight exercises etc. But I've already missed a large part of training over the past year due to some injuries etc. and now I'm back making good progress and loving it (well I was up until two weeks ago when the gyms here closed, I live in Spain).
> 
> I have the means and space, so I'm thinking to invest in a power rack, adjustable bench, barbell, and plates etc. I already have a pull-up bar and a pair of 10kg and 20kg DBs. With all this, all compound movements (and many isolation exercises with the DBs) can obviously still be done, and effective training can still be carried out. I'm willing to kit this out in my lounge as I have quite a big apartment and live alone and structurally it should be quite safe based near a wall. I obviously won't be doing anything like deadlifts to cause noise as I don't live on the ground floor. My plan would be to sell it all once this is all over as it isn't feasible to keep a power rack in my lounge forever and I have a great gym just 5 minutes walk away. Crazy idea haha? I'd just hate to buy all this and then have the gyms reopen in a month, but from what I'm reading, public places such as gyms could be closed for many months. I normally work from home anyway and feel being able to continue with proper training will help keep me sane during this lockdown (I'm used to being home alone, that part doesn't bother me).
> 
> Hope you and your family are safe stateside.


 This is going to vary significantly by country, state/region, and gym franchise. Some places are constrained by local/federal laws, others are just companies choosing to close, etc.

Hydroxychloroquinine has showed significant efficacy in treating the virus, so i can't see this lasting more than 1-2 months. It takes 3-4 weeks of no training to start losing muscle/strength and you will get it back once you start training, fast, thanks to muscle memory.

A power rack is always a good investment and you could always resell it later if you want. If you have the space and funds, i would look into that for sure. Who knows, you might even keep the gym set for convenience on days you just don't want to go, bad weather, etc.

All is well on my side, i was prepared 2 months ago for this situation, so i'm just chilling now.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> If you had to recommend maybe top 5 supps for immune system support what would they be.


 Zinc, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, cardiovascular exercise, good sleep habits

15-30 mg zinc, 500-1000 mg vitamin C, 5,000 IU vitamin D (taken with meal), 3-6 days cardio at 140-160 BPM 20-30 mins, 6-9 hours of good restful sleep


----------



## ElChapo

Oldnewb said:


> HI. recently had a liver function test. All came back OK except ALT, figure was 100
> 
> Plan on cruising for a while anyway but will injecting test have any effect on the ALT level?


 Testosterone won't raise ALT. Were you training very hard, drinking a lot, or taking any medications recently before that test? ALT is used to measure liver health but it can also be raised by a few other things. I would look into that. Are you overweight?

This is a decent primer on ALT:

https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-lower-alt


----------



## ElChapo

Redsy said:


> I have 20-30 shots of 75iu HMG. Missus was given it 8years ago for IVF.
> 
> Does it go out of date?
> 
> Can I use instead of HCG to just keep balls intact whilst on TRT and/or cycle? What protocol to just keep them ticking along.....not needing fertility!!!


 If it's still in powder form and was kept in a cool dark place, it should be fine.

You can definitely use it instead of HCG. It's more effective by far. Target dose would be +200 IU per week. "Keep them ticking" and fertility go hand in hand.

If you don't want to knock up your partners, use condoms, pull out method (actually works if done correctly), or time ejaculation/intercourse away from the fertility period the only time a woman can get pregnant (Around days 9-14 of the menstrual cycle, day 1 being the period AKA when bleeding starts).


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I've got some T3 left from 2-3 years ago , and I was wondering if that would be a good idea to use it the next 4-6 weeks.
> 
> My goal is to go to 8% , I'm at 11.5% bf atm but I'm gaining fat since we can't go outside since 2 weeks now.
> 
> I try to train at least 1 hour a day and do some light cardio , eating a little bit less but I still gain fat , I may eat even less but would T3 at 37.5mcg would help much ?
> 
> I'm on 250mg test .


 T3 sucks for fat loss. It will make you flat, will increase muscle loss, increase hunger and can have other side effects. I don't recommend it on it's own at all.


----------



## strengthnsize

I finished a cycle 8 or so weeks ago now and since then have been 'cruising' on around 120mg of test e a week. I got several blood tests done last week and my total test was around 650 ng/dl but free test was 10% over the high range, I'm guessing this is because my SHBG is low? I don't remember the number but it was exactly on the bottom range. My total test would be higher if SHBG was higher right? Also on cycle 480mg of test gave me a total test reading of slightly over 5000 ng/dl but I didn't check free test or shbg at the time, and that was a different source. Is it possible my test e at that time was overdosed or that my SHBG was higher? (I wasn't using orals at that point of the cycle as well).

DHEA-S was also 15% higher than the top range and I only used HCG for 3 weeks in the beginning of February, this shouldn't be a worry right since most of your DHEA is produced in the adrenal Cortex and not the gonads? Do you feel I may benefit from 10mg of pregnenolone supplementation if I'm no longer using HCG for the cognitive and wellbeing benefits?

Lastly my blood tests before ever using steroids showed elevated GGT levels despite very minimal alcohol intake, I hadn't drunk for 4 months prior and even then I'd only drink every weekend for around 7 months, so for most of my life I haven't touched alcohol. The value was around 75 if I remember correctly. This may have been down to a short cycle of 20mg accutane I did as a teenager, who knows - I've never had any issues that would make me think it's my liver. The blood tests taken last week showed my GGT was now 70, so 5 points lower, I did 2 runs of orals on my last cycle, anavar and 6 weeks later anadrol, using minimal TUDCA on the anavar and 400mg daily on the anadrol whilst using 40mg of accutane. My liver ast and alt were perfect but GGT is obviously still high, I'm now planning to use NAC for a few weeks/months but is there anything else I could do? It may be genetic or a sign I have low natural glutathione levels maybe?

Lastly I've made an order for a few tubes of retin-a micro gel as I've had a lot of success with the cream post-steroid cycle to cure chest acne the anadrol gave me even whilst using accutane. I came off the accutane when I finished my cycle as even using 40-60mg a day for 4 months didn't help me much, plus I'd notice occasional depression at times whilst using it and joint dryness which retina cream doesn't give me. What are your thoughts on this type of cream?

sorry for the long winded post but noticed you're active again so I thought I'd get these questions out of my mind


----------



## Ironman TS

ElChapo said:


> Hydroxychloroquinine has showed significant efficacy in treating the virus, so i can't see this lasting more than 1-2 months.


 This is really interesting. Nobody in the public domain has really referenced Hydroxychloroquinine as a potential treatment in the UK - just in dispatches following Trump's comments. I'm only really picking up on it in US news. Fingers crossed it really is the first step to finding a cure.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> It's complicated, lower IGF might reduce the risk of cancer and might extend lifespan, at the cost of possibly reduced health/vigor/aesthetics. It's a complicated topic, but skin aging/wrinkling is linked to lower IGF and Estradiol in humans. It's not that IGF increases cancer risk either as young people have the highest IGF levels with the lowest rates of cancer.
> 
> To be pragmatic, the ideal approach would be to maintain IGF levels in the physiological optimal range, in the mid to high 200s or low 300s. To maximize benefits and reduce side effects/health risks. I find the HGH greatly increases my concentration and memory. That is another proven benefit of IGF, brain health, as it can increase BDNF activity and promote neuron health among other positive effects. Low levels of IGF in adulthood may lead to premature skin aging, loss of concentration, weaker muscles, poorer body composition and other things. IGF-1 is like a youth hormone.


 Very great and informative answer. Thanks!


----------



## Oldnewb

ElChapo said:


> Testosterone won't raise ALT. Were you training very hard, drinking a lot, or taking any medications recently before that test? ALT is used to measure liver health but it can also be raised by a few other things. I would look into that. Are you overweight?
> 
> This is a decent primer on ALT:
> 
> https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-lower-alt


 Thanks.

I was half way through a cycle of deca and test at decent dosages so training was pretty hard as strength was climbing weekly.

I don't drink at all

medication included cabergoline, arimidex, prescribed blood pressure tablet ( used for 20years) and some omeprazole for heart burn

was pretty lean as coming off a run of trenbolone and test from a long cut

the doctor did a more thorough liver function test and said ast level was 72. Test of results were ok


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo

I have heard people stating that HCG should not be used year round when on testosterone due to the body desensitizing. At first I thought it's not possible to desensitize to LH/FSH as they're natural hormones. However, HCG is foreign to the male body and therefore the leydig cells in the testes are likely to desensitize to HCG after regular use. These three studies below done on rats express the lack of stimulation to the leydig cells when using HCG consecutively.

Would you reccomend a 10 weeks on, 10 weeks off protocol with HCG rather than year round?

https://www.jbc.org/content/254/13/5613.full.pdf

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6321273/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0006291X7891570X


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo If i run 2-3iu of hgh will it affect my natural test levels and shut me down?

Ive come off aas completely and not planning to go back on for a while. Wanted to stay running hgh for the anti aging/health benefits.


----------



## arbffgadm100

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo If i run 2-3iu of hgh will it affect my natural test levels and shut me down?
> 
> Ive come off aas completely and not planning to go back on for a while. Wanted to stay running hgh for the anti aging/health benefits.


 No. HGH doesn't interact with HPTA.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo I started doing fasted cardio (biking 8 km for 20 minutes) in the morning four hours after injecting 4 iu of HGH.

From what I read it takes four hours for the fat burning effects of HGH in a fasted state to become utilized? Assuming this, is it a big deal if i sometimes wait five hours instead, before doing my fasted cardio?

Edit: oh and if also stacking with yohimbine, how long before cardio should i take that?


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate. Not sure if there is a hard and fast answer to this question as I guess it can vary massively but I'll ask anyway if only to give me some sort of optomism in these s**t times lol.

So for arguments sake, let's say during the time of this lockdown with gyms being shut until reopening I lose 10lbs of muscle. How long would it take once training and aas use is resumed to regain that lost tissue?

Thank you


----------



## TALBOTL

ElChapo said:


> Nobody knows, you might get a bad skin reaction or inflammation/slow healing or you might be completely fine. The risk is yours.
> 
> I am an endocrine nurse specialist, and not a doctor by choice (schooling takes too long/already making more money than i need in my current occupation).


 Interesting to know your line of work EC, out of interest what has been your education path? Presume you went to college, did a degree with med school? 
Endocrinology is way off the mark here in comparison to many other places, which is a shame.

Ps hope you're keeping safe in the current climate.


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo best macro split when running dnp for maximum results?


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate. In your opinion is DNP as dangerous as it is made out to be? There is so much conflicting info online. Some says it's liver/kidney toxic some say it's not...some say it's only good at high bf some say only use when low bf etc... would it be useful at 10%bf to continue getting leaner? Say down to 8-7percent bf. Would there be a rebound or if diet is kept strict would maintaining that bf be manageable after ceasing use. 
cheers


----------



## ElChapo

strengthnsize said:


> I finished a cycle 8 or so weeks ago now and since then have been 'cruising' on around 120mg of test e a week. I got several blood tests done last week and my total test was around 650 ng/dl but free test was 10% over the high range, I'm guessing this is because my SHBG is low? I don't remember the number but it was exactly on the bottom range. My total test would be higher if SHBG was higher right? Also on cycle 480mg of test gave me a total test reading of slightly over 5000 ng/dl but I didn't check free test or shbg at the time, and that was a different source. Is it possible my test e at that time was overdosed or that my SHBG was higher? (I wasn't using orals at that point of the cycle as well).
> 
> DHEA-S was also 15% higher than the top range and I only used HCG for 3 weeks in the beginning of February, this shouldn't be a worry right since most of your DHEA is produced in the adrenal Cortex and not the gonads? Do you feel I may benefit from 10mg of pregnenolone supplementation if I'm no longer using HCG for the cognitive and wellbeing benefits?
> 
> Lastly my blood tests before ever using steroids showed elevated GGT levels despite very minimal alcohol intake, I hadn't drunk for 4 months prior and even then I'd only drink every weekend for around 7 months, so for most of my life I haven't touched alcohol. The value was around 75 if I remember correctly. This may have been down to a short cycle of 20mg accutane I did as a teenager, who knows - I've never had any issues that would make me think it's my liver. The blood tests taken last week showed my GGT was now 70, so 5 points lower, I did 2 runs of orals on my last cycle, anavar and 6 weeks later anadrol, using minimal TUDCA on the anavar and 400mg daily on the anadrol whilst using 40mg of accutane. My liver ast and alt were perfect but GGT is obviously still high, I'm now planning to use NAC for a few weeks/months but is there anything else I could do? It may be genetic or a sign I have low natural glutathione levels maybe?
> 
> Lastly I've made an order for a few tubes of retin-a micro gel as I've had a lot of success with the cream post-steroid cycle to cure chest acne the anadrol gave me even whilst using accutane. I came off the accutane when I finished my cycle as even using 40-60mg a day for 4 months didn't help me much, plus I'd notice occasional depression at times whilst using it and joint dryness which retina cream doesn't give me. What are your thoughts on this type of cream?
> 
> sorry for the long winded post but noticed you're active again so I thought I'd get these questions out of my mind


 Pregnelone is overrated crap. Don't waste your time, it's like DHEA, it can convert to other hormones and you can't control it. In real practice, no real benefits. Focus on the fundamentals (Test/E/thyroid/vits/minerals/cardio/sleep/stress control/etc)

GGT can be elevated from exercise as well. Did you train hard the week of the tests? It could be genetic. Do you take any supplements or medications? Hepatitis viruses can cause liver inflammation as well.

Retin-A aka tretinoin is generally as effective as accutane without the systemic side effects. It works from the outside in vs inside out with accutane/isotretinoin. It is a great medication, it can take 2-3 months to see significant results and acne can get worse at first, they call this "purging" in dermatology. You can source this from online indian pharmacies for cheap and it is one of the strongest, most well-researched anti-aging compounds in the world with almost 70 years of research behind it. I highly recommend it. 0.05% concentration is the best compromise between strength/efficacy and side effects like irritation/dryness. For best results, use daily with moisturizer.


----------



## ElChapo

Ironman TS said:


> This is really interesting. Nobody in the public domain has really referenced Hydroxychloroquinine as a potential treatment in the UK - just in dispatches following Trump's comments. I'm only really picking up on it in US news. Fingers crossed it really is the first step to finding a cure.


 Answering this post now in June 24th, Hydroxychloroquine is truly effective. I have seen +80 year old patients with HIV and poorly controlled diabetes/COPD survive and fully recover from Positive COVID-19 status and severe pneumonia. The anti-hydroxy campaign is all politics. There is HUGE money in selling vaccinations. Hydroxy-C is a very old and cheap medication, so there is no patent and not much money to be made by big pharma execs and those in power. It's so safe, it's approved for use in pregnant women. It's been around for almost 70 years.


----------



## ElChapo

Oldnewb said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I was half way through a cycle of deca and test at decent dosages so training was pretty hard as strength was climbing weekly.
> 
> I don't drink at all
> 
> medication included cabergoline, arimidex, prescribed blood pressure tablet ( used for 20years) and some omeprazole for heart burn
> 
> was pretty lean as coming off a run of trenbolone and test from a long cut
> 
> the doctor did a more thorough liver function test and said ast level was 72. Test of results were ok


 Trenbolone can also cause some increase in ALT/AST sometimes.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I have heard people stating that HCG should not be used year round when on testosterone due to the body desensitizing. At first I thought it's not possible to desensitize to LH/FSH as they're natural hormones. However, HCG is foreign to the male body and therefore the leydig cells in the testes are likely to desensitize to HCG after regular use. These three studies below done on rats express the lack of stimulation to the leydig cells when using HCG consecutively.
> 
> Would you reccomend a 10 weeks on, 10 weeks off protocol with HCG rather than year round?
> 
> https://www.jbc.org/content/254/13/5613.full.pdf
> 
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6321273/
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0006291X7891570X


 Does your body desensitize to your own LH/FSH?

You can only extrapolate so much from animal studies. Oftentimes, Their metabolism and physiology responds differently to hormones and medications. I always recommend full time on HCG and if possible, HMG instead to fully simulate your natural gonadotropin activity.

Also note that in the rat study, 200-500 IU was administered, that is a massive dosage for a rat. The study also cites in-vitro studies.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo If i run 2-3iu of hgh will it affect my natural test levels and shut me down?
> 
> Ive come off aas completely and not planning to go back on for a while. Wanted to stay running hgh for the anti aging/health benefits.


 Not at all. The two axis are not connected.

HGH is an excellent way of maintaining gains off-cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo I started doing fasted cardio (biking 8 km for 20 minutes) in the morning four hours after injecting 4 iu of HGH.
> 
> From what I read it takes four hours for the fat burning effects of HGH in a fasted state to become utilized? Assuming this, is it a big deal if i sometimes wait five hours instead, before doing my fasted cardio?
> 
> Edit: oh and if also stacking with yohimbine, how long before cardio should i take that?


 No, don't even think about this stuff. Just stay in a caloric deficit consistently and you will burn fat. This kind of timing will have no significant effect in the long run. It's the kind of stuff you don't want to waste your time and energy thinking about.

Yohimbine HCl: 15-30 mins before cardio


----------



## Pancake'

Good to see you back ElChapo, I hope you're well. 

Questions: What do you think of good mornings as an exercise and do you believe they can have good carry over to the squat as well as strengthening of the lower back?

Edit: Performed with a light load, Shooting for reps, emphasis being on solid form.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate. Not sure if there is a hard and fast answer to this question as I guess it can vary massively but I'll ask anyway if only to give me some sort of optomism in these s**t times lol.
> 
> So for arguments sake, let's say during the time of this lockdown with gyms being shut until reopening I lose 10lbs of muscle. How long would it take once training and aas use is resumed to regain that lost tissue?
> 
> Thank you


 That depends on various factors like your genetics, if you are cruising/blasting, and how good your training/nutrition is once you start again. I would say it shouldn't take longer than 2 months to get it back as a very rough estimation and from my personal experience. If you add AAS, that should shave a ton of time off that.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> Hi @ElChapo i have been on accutane for 3 weeks now at 40mg and its got worst, would you say this was enough or is 1mg per kg bodyweight really necessary? This would be like 80mg which seems very high
> 
> i know it apparently gets worst before it gets better but im not confident its helping but yet, my skin doesn't exactly feel that dry apart from my nostrils


 Studies show that 20 mg will do the job will less severe "purging effect". Many people quit before they see the magic of accutane/retin-a. I always recommend tretinoin cream over accutane since it will not give you systemic side effects. The purging/worsening of acne will always happen with retinoids like accutane/retin-a though. You just gotta deal with it, it actually means it's working. It's pushing out all the sebum, gunk and dead skin cells. If you are patient, your skin will turn to a really smooth and nice complexion.


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> Interesting to know your line of work EC, out of interest what has been your education path? Presume you went to college, did a degree with med school?
> Endocrinology is way off the mark here in comparison to many other places, which is a shame.
> 
> Ps hope you're keeping safe in the current climate.


 I don't go into that too much as i am fairly active on the public side and don't want any chance of connections being made.

You will find that most endocrine clinicians have no idea what they are doing and country of origin makes no difference. They are just as bad in the USA, you are lucky if they even know how to treat diabetes properly and generally, that's all they are good at. When it comes to Thyroid and sex hormones for men/women (testosterone/estrogen) they are completely clueless most of the time.

I am doing exceptionally well in these crazy times as i prepared well in advanced for this s**t show and i saw the writing on the wall. I've been damn busy but finally got some time to get back here and answer some questions.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Good to see you back ElChapo, I hope you're well.
> 
> Questions: What do you think of good mornings as an exercise and do you believe they can have good carry over to the squat as well as strengthening of the lower back?
> 
> Edit: Performed with a light load, Shooting for reps, emphasis being on solid form.


 Nope, i think it's a waste of time/counter productive for most people. Heavy squat will indirectly train the low back very very well. No need to hit them directly and you might just end up over-fatiguing the muscle if you combine it with squats. Deadlifts will also hit the low back indirectly but very heavily. The low back is a small and easily compromised muscle, so you need to take a lot of care not to overtrain/strain it, especially if you have family or medical history of low back issues. The best thing you can do for your lower back isn't training it more, but making sure your abdominal muscles are as strong as possible. (Cable crunches w/ progressive overload)


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo best macro split when running dnp for maximum results?


 I would focus all your energy on the caloric deficit (I would shoot for 1,000 for very rapid fat loss) and light cardio to further increase fat loss. Get enough protein to preserve muscle (1 mg per lbs of lean body mass). Don't worry about the macro split.

I'm a big proponent of NOT lowering carbs, as they keep your muscles fuller/stronger, your mood/appetite/sleep better (increase leptin/serotonin), and other benefits. Lowering carbs excessively increases cortisol, lowers mood/libido, and other issues.


----------



## pma111

What kind of health impact does stress e.g. work/finances/health/relationships etc have on the body if unresolved over a period of time. And is there anything that can be taken in form of supplements/prescriptions to limit the damage of stress, as certain events cannot be planned for etc. I can imagine cardio is helpful.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate. In your opinion is DNP as dangerous as it is made out to be? There is so much conflicting info online. Some says it's liver/kidney toxic some say it's not...some say it's only good at high bf some say only use when low bf etc... would it be useful at 10%bf to continue getting leaner? Say down to 8-7percent bf. Would there be a rebound or if diet is kept strict would maintaining that bf be manageable after ceasing use.
> cheers


 Not if you run it properly. I only recommend 200-300 daily w/ 20-40 mins very light cardio and 1,000 calorie deficit. That will absolutely melt fat off while limiting side effects and danger. You can also stack it with EC stack or yohimbine to further hypercharge the fat loss, increase energy, and training intensity.

It will work at any body fat level, If you are going under 10%, always add Yohimbine HCl. Yohimbine makes stubborn fat easier to burn off by directly attacking the mechanism that makes it "stubborn" (Increased density of Alpha-2 adrenergic receptors).

Rebounding after fat loss has 100% to do with your caloric intake and activity levels AFTER the fat loss. If you stay at maintenance, you will not gain the fat back. The thing is that when you get under 10% body fat, most people's metabolism slow down a bit, so you have to adjust your maintenance calories downwards for this. It helps a lot to stay active and do cardio to maintain low body fat levels as it lets you eat more while staying lean.

Yohimbine basically makes stubborn fat into regular fat, it increases energy, and even libido/erection strength. It's a very cool compound, don't take too much or it can cause very high BP/anxiety issues if you are susceptible to them. No one should ever need more than 25 mg daily. Do NOT confuse Yohimbine HCl (Good) with Yohimbe (Not as effective).

Yohimbine HCl is like the caffeine of the Yohimbe plant. When you buy Yohimbine HCl you are buying the isolated active component of the yohimbe plant.

Think of it like this Yohimbine HCl = Caffeine (Active chemicals) Yohimbe = Coffee (Plant)


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What kind of health impact does stress e.g. work/finances/health/relationships etc have on the body if unresolved over a period of time. And is there anything that can be taken in form of supplements/prescriptions to limit the damage of stress, as certain events cannot be planned for etc. I can imagine cardio is helpful.


 Elevated cortisol from chronic stress will affect your cognitive ability (short term/long term memory/problem solving+critical thinking) your mood/libido (higher risk of anxiety/depression/low libido/erectile dysfunction), it can increase your appetite and lead to fat gain, and make you more susceptible to sickness and chronic diseases. One of the best things you can do for your mental and physical health is to mitigate stress.

Testosterone can help increase the body's ability to handle stress. Testosterone directly antagonizes some of the negative effects of cortisol on the mind/body. Many people have good results with the supplements ashgwanda (https://examine.com/supplements/ashwagandha/) and magnesium.

Cardio is massively helpful and i speak from personal experience. My ability to handle stress is massively enhanced when i do consistent light cardio. Cardio increases BDNF, a very important neurochemical that enhances cognitive function, mood and CNS recovery. You make less of this as you age, and cardio is one of the only ways to increase it.


----------



## ElChapo

Hadenough said:


> @ElChapo no reply bro? Help a brother out, been on it for nearly two months now and it just keeps getting worst! Up to 60mg now "am 80kg" and i haven't seen any positives, side effects have been very sore lips and nostrils, not one spot has decreased, i just keep getting more nasty red ones that dont pop.


 You MUST be patient. It takes around 3 months for the purge to end. 60 mg may be overkill, you could likely get away with 20 mg. Is the acne just on your face or everywhere?

If it's only your face, i suggest using tretinoin cream instead.


----------



## pma111

Is there any science behind what would constitute a peak time of day for getting your best performance in lifting weights or going for a run in relation to time of day or proximity to meals etc? Or is it personal to the trainee?


----------



## Jordan08

Hey bud,

Welcome back and hope you are doing great.

Need your advice on usage of NAC. Can it be recommended for general well being purpose to people above 60 years of age?.


----------



## delbo

@El Chapo Thanks for the reply buddy. Does this sound like a solid 6 week cutting cycle. 2200 cals. 125mg test e. 200mg tren ace. 50mg winstrol. 250mg dnp. 120mcg clen. 15mg yohimbine. Anything else you would add/remove?


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo good to have you back sir. I hope you and your family/friends have been largely unaffected by this pandemic.


----------



## Tricky

delbo said:


> Thanks for the reply buddy. Does this sound like a solid 6 week cutting cycle. 2200 cals. 125mg test e. 200mg tren ace. 50mg winstrol. 250mg dnp. 120mcg clen. 15mg yohimbine. Anything else you would add/remove?


 Far too much too soon.


----------



## delbo

Tricky said:


> Far too much too soon.


 thanks for the reply buddy, however i have seen guys on here take a lot higher doses than that, and for a lot longer. Elchapo will have a better explanation than the one you gave me i suspect.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo

Welcome back brother, glad to hear you weathered the corona storm.

Some of the other forums stress the importance of taking days or even months off HGH, to avoid cells losing sensitivity to HGH and avoid the body developing anti bodies to HGH.

From my understanding, for most of us, staying on without breaks should not be an issue?

I plan to stay on 3-4 iu for life.

Any truth to the whole "take a break" thing?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is there any science behind what would constitute a peak time of day for getting your best performance in lifting weights or going for a run in relation to time of day or proximity to meals etc? Or is it personal to the trainee?


 Yes, but it depends on the person. Some research shows early evening/late afternoon, but myself, i have worse training during that time and prefer mornings. Everyone has a different circadian rhythm setpoint, AKA Night owl/Morning person. With Experimentation, you can get a idea where you fall on the spectrum.

Proximity to meals; Generally, too heavy a meal can impeded performance, your body goes into "rest and digest mode" aka parasympathetic nervous system activates. Blood goes to stomach, you get sleepier, etc. Fasted training with some BCAA or a light snack before training is my personal preference, but everyone is different.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Hey bud,
> 
> Welcome back and hope you are doing great.
> 
> Need your advice on usage of NAC. Can it be recommended for general well being purpose to people above 60 years of age?.


 Yes, it's a safe compound. It's just an amino acid with a modification. It has shown some efficacy in OCD disorders among other interesting benefits.

https://examine.com/supplements/n-acetylcysteine/


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo WB ElChapo

Using small dose T3 (12.5mcg) can increase prolactin levels?

I read that hyperthyroidism could lead to gynecomastia , by which mechanism exactly ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo WB ElChapo
> 
> Using small dose T3 (12.5mcg) can increase prolactin levels?
> 
> I read that hyperthyroidism could lead to gynecomastia , by which mechanism exactly ?


 Increased aromatization and SHBG levels. Very rare side effect.

Not, it will not affect prolactin, especially at such low dose.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Elevated cortisol from chronic stress will affect your cognitive ability (short term/long term memory/problem solving+critical thinking) your mood/libido (higher risk of anxiety/depression/low libido/erectile dysfunction), it can increase your appetite and lead to fat gain, and make you more susceptible to sickness and chronic diseases. One of the best things you can do for your mental and physical health is to mitigate stress.


 A side from cardio+diet are there any additional supps that support cognitive functioning that you recommend?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> A side from cardio+diet are there any additional supps that support cognitive functioning that you recommend?


 Choline from eggs can help, modafanil/caffeine can improve concentration. Some people use adderal/ritalin.


----------



## Tricky

delbo said:


> thanks for the reply buddy, however i have seen guys on here take a lot higher doses than that, and for a lot longer. Elchapo will have a better explanation than the one you gave me i suspect.


 Ok fine I'll await to see his reply. I've seen plenty run more too. The issue is your throwing the kitchen sink at it from the get go so when stalls totally and metabolism is shot where do you go from there? Up the dose?


----------



## delbo

Tricky said:


> Ok fine I'll await to see his reply. I've seen plenty run more too. The issue is your throwing the kitchen sink at it from the get go so when stalls totally and metabolism is shot where do you go from there? Up the dose?


 It's only for final 6 weeks for photoshoot bud, already in fairly decent shape at the moment. Sitting around 12% bf and this cycle just to tighten me up for the shoot. But yea I get what you mean about too many things at once, and id tend to agree with you if I was over 15%bf and needed a lot longer than 6 weeks to diet. Cheers man ?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @El Chapo Thanks for the reply buddy. Does this sound like a solid 6 week cutting cycle. 2200 cals. 125mg test e. 200mg tren ace. 50mg winstrol. 250mg dnp. 120mcg clen. 15mg yohimbine. Anything else you would add/remove?


 Yep, depends how lean you want to get but that's excellent. You should melt fat off in those 6 weeks, depending on your caloric deficit+cardio (the most important factors). I would do a minimum of 500 cal deficit, but my personal preference is 1,000 since i'm impatient. Otherwise, looks solid.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Ok fine I'll await to see his reply. I've seen plenty run more too. The issue is your throwing the kitchen sink at it from the get go so when stalls totally and metabolism is shot where do you go from there? Up the dose?


 If metabolism stalls (generally will not happen after 6 weeks) you drop calories by 200 daily or increase cardio (time/ not intensity). This is the appropriate solution. The stack is excellent.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Welcome back brother, glad to hear you weathered the corona storm.
> 
> Some of the other forums stress the importance of taking days or even months off HGH, to avoid cells losing sensitivity to HGH and avoid the body developing anti bodies to HGH.
> 
> From my understanding, for most of us, staying on without breaks should not be an issue?
> 
> I plan to stay on 3-4 iu for life.
> 
> Any truth to the whole "take a break" thing?


 Horse s**t. People don't understand "gene expression" which means there are certain effects that hormones produce that only happen after being on them for months. You could look back in this thread for an explanation on genomic effects and non-genomic effects. Taking a break from HGH due to the above is complete broscience BS.

There is zero truth to this and to add to it, HGH does not cause permanent shut down no matter how much or how long you run it. It's not the same as the gonadal axis/testosterone. I've blasted intermediate doses for over a year and had 100% full recovery of my IGF-1 levels after stopping. So i also have my own anecdotal experience/labs to back this up.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> It's only for final 6 weeks for photoshoot bud, already in fairly decent shape at the moment. Sitting around 12% bf and this cycle just to tighten me up for the shoot. But yea I get what you mean about too many things at once, and id tend to agree with you if I was over 15%bf and needed a lot longer than 6 weeks to diet. Cheers man ?


 at 12%, 6 weeks of this stack should do the job and should get you around 6-8% easily, but again depends on the caloric deficit/cardio/activity levels. I generally recommend very light/easy cardio so that your appetite/lifting intensity is not affect. I wouldn't go over 160 BPM during cardio.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> Horse s**t. People don't understand "gene expression" which means there are certain effects that hormones produce that only happen after being on them for months. You could look back in this thread for an explanation on genomic effects and non-genomic effects. Taking a break from HGH due to the above is complete broscience BS.
> 
> There is zero truth to this and to add to it, HGH does not cause permanent shut down no matter how much or how long you run it. It's not the same as the gonadal axis/testosterone. I've blasted intermediate doses for over a year and had 100% full recovery of my IGF-1 levels after stopping. So i also have my own anecdotal experience/labs to back this up.


 Thanks a lot, this makes me feel a lot more calm!

Then I will proceed with my daily 4 iu dosing, with a piece of mind


----------



## pma111

Would your healing stack or zinc/vitamin c/dietry protein work on stomach/dudoneal ulcers or are there better solutions and techniques?

Do any hormone deficiencies affect wound healing potential e.g hypothyroid.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Thanks a lot, this makes me feel a lot more calm!
> 
> Then I will proceed with my daily 4 iu dosing, with a piece of mind


 Think about the pros who blast massive doses of HGH/insulin/AAS year round, you don't see their gains slowing down besides the normal plateaus that happen as you build more and more muscle.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Would your healing stack or zinc/vitamin c/dietry protein work on stomach/dudoneal ulcers or are there better solutions and techniques?
> 
> Do any hormone deficiencies affect wound healing potential e.g hypothyroid.


 Yes, it likely would, however, you want to identify the direct cause of the ulcers if you can. H. Pylori infection, autoimmune disease, etc are common causative factors. You want to attack the issue directly.

Hypothyroidism can delay wound healing and topical T3 has been used successfully to enhance wound healing. Low IGF/Growth hormone levels can also delay wound healing, this is one of the main reasons why elderly people heal slower than a young teenager does.


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

If I was to run gh at 4iu daily on a test npp winny bulk, what would I expect to see?

If a chick was on a cut, running winny or anavar, what level of T3 and gh would be optimal? My partner had bloods six months ago and three months layer showing very low t4, ok T3 and high tsh which you immediately commented was hypo thyriodism. The doc did fk all, even after their own test. She's gutted and is dieting and I've placed three fenak pals on the same cals and diet, they respond as you would expect, my partner simply does not. So she's wanting to take control and run a cycle and meds to overcome what she sees as her barriers. Thoughts?


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> Yes, it likely would, however, you want to identify the direct cause of the ulcers if you can. H. Pylori infection, autoimmune disease, etc are common causative factors. You want to attack the issue directly.
> 
> Hypothyroidism can delay wound healing and topical T3 has been used successfully to enhance wound healing. Low IGF/Growth hormone levels can also delay wound healing, this is one of the main reasons why elderly people heal slower than a young teenager does.


 Seem to remember you saying autoimmune conditions are a bit of a nightmare to treat. I did wonder whether vitamin c/vitamin d/zinc may help there too to control the immune system and stop things going into overdrive and causing nasty consequences like ulcers and inflammatory problems like arthritis/crohns/colitis etc. Infections / allergies seem to be a common factor (cause?) in autoimmune conditions from some articles I've read. Would you concur? Like you say though, testing and proper root cause analysis is key. Thanks.


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> If metabolism stalls (generally will not happen after 6 weeks) you drop calories by 200 daily or increase cardio (time/ not intensity). This is the appropriate solution. The stack is excellent.


 Would you not agree it's better to start higher kcals and less drugs. Then ass it stalls reduce kcals and also up drugs and add others in? I always start on test, tren, clen then further down the line at the t3 then dnp to finish up while reducing kcals

do you prefer to chuck the kitchen sink at it from day 1


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> If I was to run gh at 4iu daily on a test npp winny bulk, what would I expect to see?
> 
> If a chick was on a cut, running winny or anavar, what level of T3 and gh would be optimal? My partner had bloods six months ago and three months layer showing very low t4, ok T3 and high tsh which you immediately commented was hypo thyriodism. The doc did fk all, even after their own test. She's gutted and is dieting and I've placed three fenak pals on the same cals and diet, they respond as you would expect, my partner simply does not. So she's wanting to take control and run a cycle and meds to overcome what she sees as her barriers. Thoughts?


 1. Better gains and pump on lower dose. Possibly less fat gain in the surplus.

2. T3 and GH is not going to fix whatever issue she has. If she has hypothyroidism, she mainly needs T4 replacement, this will not have a huge effect on fat loss though and neither will GH. She probably needs less calories, more activity and it's possible she's eating more than she thinks/says. T3 will just increase hunger, make the muscles flatter. It's a crappy fat burner on it's own. If she's truly consuming the calories and she's not losing weight, she needs to drop them by another 200 calories or add some light cardio. Also know that many men/women don't show weight loss for a few weeks and overnight will drop it. Read more about that here: https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat

3. You need to show me the thyroid lab numbers before and after. Most doctors/nurses are complete morons when it comes to thyroid/hormones. That's completely normal and expected.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Seem to remember you saying autoimmune conditions are a bit of a nightmare to treat. I did wonder whether vitamin c/vitamin d/zinc may help there too to control the immune system and stop things going into overdrive and causing nasty consequences like ulcers and inflammatory problems like arthritis/crohns/colitis etc. Infections / allergies seem to be a common factor (cause?) in autoimmune conditions from some articles I've read. Would you concur? Like you say though, testing and proper root cause analysis is key. Thanks.


 No, no vitamin stack is going to override and autoimmune disorder. Each disorder has it's own treatment and approaches.

Sometimes infections with viruses/bacteria can activate autoimmune disease. There is a strong genetic component and it is also believe that the way we keep children away from bacteria at an early age is making their immune systems overreactive, leading to allergies and autoimmune disorders.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Would you not agree it's better to start higher kcals and less drugs. Then ass it stalls reduce kcals and also up drugs and add others in? I always start on test, tren, clen then further down the line at the t3 then dnp to finish up while reducing kcals
> 
> do you prefer to chuck the kitchen sink at it from day 1


 No, because the drugs are not the main driver of fat loss. They are a hyper charger, it's been proven that the drugs like EC stack/yohimbine/DNP do not have diminishing returns/tolerance build up. The point of taking them is to speed up fat loss. If you plateau, drop calories or increase activity. Plateau in fat loss only starts to happen once you've been cutting +12 weeks or you hit single digit body fat.

People always confuse the rapid weight loss at the start of a diet as "fat loss" just like they confuse the spike in weight when starting a new cycle as "muscle gain". The former is a reduction in muscle/liver glycogen content, the latter is an increase in muscle glycogen/nitrogen content, neither are true fat loss or true muscle gain.

You can easily get single digit body fat without the drugs just buy dropping calories/increasing activity, the whole point of the "kitchen sink" stack is to melt fat off as fast as possible. This means less time in a deficit losing valuable strength/muscle, and more time enjoying maintenance or being in a surplus building muscle again.


----------



## MrGRoberts

Currently taking 250mg Test (Sustanon), 250mg Mast E per week. Been on this for a while now.

Took test 48hrs after injection.

Is my testosterone severely underdosed?


----------



## strengthnsize

I've read through most of the comments you've made and noticed your favourite orals are winstrol and Superdrol. Funnily enough you seem to be one of the few people who seem to advocate running superdrol for longer periods of time. How do you combat the lethargy that many get from it, and would you say 5-10mg is a reasonable dose for someone who wants to run it for the first time? I've done a lot of reading and don't think the toxicity is as bad as some people say but I think the lethargy seems to stem from something else completely, I remember reading why on another forum but can't find the post now, I believe it was cortisol or something and he linked a few studies to back up his reasoning too.

Ive also spoken to a pretty highly ranked powerlifter over in the USA who's taken 150mg of superdrol (yes legitimate superdrol lol) a day for several weeks and had mild elevations in liver values, so I don't see why so many guys on forums seem to say they felt as if their liver was dying a week into 10mg a day of SD.

Also in terms of using winstrol, do you not experience the hair loss many seem to complain about whilst using it, or the tendon/joint pain? I guess that could be combatted with letting run estrogen higher which most people fail to do so? It's one compound which I've been told is great to run in strength-oriented training blocks.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Currently taking 250mg Test (Sustanon), 250mg Mast E per week. Been on this for a while now.
> 
> Took test 48hrs after injection.
> 
> Is my testosterone severely underdosed?
> 
> View attachment 185529


 How long were you on the testosterone? It's 250 mg per injection? That does look damn low.


----------



## ElChapo

strengthnsize said:


> I've read through most of the comments you've made and noticed your favourite orals are winstrol and Superdrol. Funnily enough you seem to be one of the few people who seem to advocate running superdrol for longer periods of time. How do you combat the lethargy that many get from it, and would you say 5-10mg is a reasonable dose for someone who wants to run it for the first time? I've done a lot of reading and don't think the toxicity is as bad as some people say but I think the lethargy seems to stem from something else completely, I remember reading why on another forum but can't find the post now, I believe it was cortisol or something and he linked a few studies to back up his reasoning too.
> 
> Ive also spoken to a pretty highly ranked powerlifter over in the USA who's taken 150mg of superdrol (yes legitimate superdrol lol) a day for several weeks and had mild elevations in liver values, so I don't see why so many guys on forums seem to say they felt as if their liver was dying a week into 10mg a day of SD.
> 
> Also in terms of using winstrol, do you not experience the hair loss many seem to complain about whilst using it, or the tendon/joint pain? I guess that could be combatted with letting run estrogen higher which most people fail to do so? It's one compound which I've been told is great to run in strength-oriented training blocks.


 1. Will power 2. EC stack or strong pre-workout or lots of caffeine

I would do at least 10 mg daily. I had great results doing 40 mg MWF injectable.

It's unlikely the lethargy is due to liver toxicity. Androgens tend to displace cortisols effects on the body, which may lead to fatigue. Taking cortisol tabs can actually have an energizing effect and give people energy and sometimes even manic episodes.

The guys are attributing the fatigue to liver toxicity. The objective signs of acute liver toxicity are 1. Elevated AST/ALT/GGT and 2. Jaundince (yellow skin and/or eyes). Most bodybuilders/recreational lifters use subjective signs to guess what is going on in the body.

Winstrol increases TGF-beta, this peptide has been linked to male pattern hair loss. I find that consistent nizoral use blocks the hair thinning effect of winstrol/masteron, including in other people who report the same. Nizoral can even reverse some hair loss/thinning.

The joint pain may also be due to some effect on collagen, i have a theory that low Vitamin D may be a factor (extrapolating from a study where aromatase inhibitor meds used in breast cancer caused joint pain in women with low vitamin D). I've never had joint issues and my vitamin D is always in the optimal range, but again it's just a grasp at straw theory of mine.

Winstrol made me the strongest i've ever been (world class/elite levels of strength). It's incredible for mass gain/strength/fat loss, very versatile, very cheap, and very easy to source. Most don't realize this because they don't run it for long enough periods for it to kick in fully.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> How long were you on the testosterone? It's 250 mg per injection? That does look damn low.


 I've been on TRT for like a year. 
I increased to 250mg test at least 1-2 months ago. Don't understand as never had any issues with any of the labs stuff before


----------



## delbo

I was always under the impression that anything over a 300-500 cal surplus was not necessary for building muscle and anything more will just lead to fat gain. What are your thoughts on this? If a moderate amount of AAS are thrown into the mix, does this 3-500 surplus rule stay the same or do more calories/protein need added for more muscle gain or where will the extra gains come from?


----------



## aftermath

@ElChapo I've a pea sized lump behind my right nipple on and off for about 3 years now. The lump usually subsides and disappears with 20mg tamoxifen daily. However the lump seems to come back gradually whenever I get off the tamoxifen. I am not on TRT but will run 1-2 low/moderate dosed cycles a year with PCT.

My longest consistent use of tamoxifen was 20 weeks of 20mg daily, taken alongside my 14 week cycle (300mg Test ew, 50mg Var ed), and 6 weeks on PCT. There was no lump at the end of PCT but it formed back again about 4-5 weeks later.

Is gyno surgery going to be my only option to completely remove the lump at this point? Or would it be worth another attempt on tamoxifen, this time without AAS and for a longer period to see if the lump can be gone for good?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I've been on TRT for like a year.
> I increased to 250mg test at least 1-2 months ago. Don't understand as never had any issues with any of the labs stuff before


 Times are weird, many raw powder suppliers had to shutdown permanently early this year because of new Chinese laws and then COVID-19 hit. This may have affected the quality of some labs. There are many parts of the process where things can go wrong, as i always say. Raw powder prices had gone up last i check for many people, not sure if that has changed.

First the raw powder supplier needs to have integrity, then the brewer/lab.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> I was always under the impression that anything over a 300-500 cal surplus was not necessary for building muscle and anything more will just lead to fat gain. What are your thoughts on this? If a moderate amount of AAS are thrown into the mix, does this 3-500 surplus rule stay the same or do more calories/protein need added for more muscle gain or where will the extra gains come from?


 Generally yes, but it depends on genetics/level of experience/AAS+peptide use/etc. For 90% of people, anything over 500 cals is overkill.

An ectomorph, someone on AAS/HGH, a novice ; these people can bend this guideline to some extent.

Even on AAS, for most people i still recommend 300-500 cals. AAS just 1. Increase the speed that muscle is built 2. Unlock your human and individual genetic limitation for building & holding muscle. Another thing is the illusion of muscle growth that AAS can create by increasing the Pump/3D look and the drying effect. This is due to an increase in intramuscular glycogen & nitrogen content and reduction in subcutaneous water.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> @ElChapo I've a pea sized lump behind my right nipple on and off for about 3 years now. The lump usually subsides and disappears with 20mg tamoxifen daily. However the lump seems to come back gradually whenever I get off the tamoxifen. I am not on TRT but will run 1-2 low/moderate dosed cycles a year with PCT.
> 
> My longest consistent use of tamoxifen was 20 weeks of 20mg daily, taken alongside my 14 week cycle (300mg Test ew, 50mg Var ed), and 6 weeks on PCT. There was no lump at the end of PCT but it formed back again about 4-5 weeks later.
> 
> Is gyno surgery going to be my only option to completely remove the lump at this point? Or would it be worth another attempt on tamoxifen, this time without AAS and for a longer period to see if the lump can be gone for good?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 Is it noticeable? If it's not, i would not give two shits about it, but if you have OCD, it may be bothering you at a psychological level.

If 20 weeks of nolvadex didn't do it, then it's unlikely to go away permanently and will flare back up especially if you startup AAS again. If it's no noticeable to the naked eye, i would stop worrying about it, otherwise, the surgery is a good option.


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> Generally yes, but it depends on genetics/level of experience/AAS+peptide use/etc. For 90% of people, anything over 500 cals is overkill.
> 
> An ectomorph, someone on AAS/HGH, a novice ; these people can bend this guideline to some extent.
> 
> Even on AAS, for most people i still recommend 300-500 cals. AAS just 1. Increase the speed that muscle is built 2. Unlock your human and individual genetic limitation for building & holding muscle. Another thing is the illusion of muscle growth that AAS can create by increasing the Pump/3D look and the drying effect. This is due to an increase in intramuscular glycogen & nitrogen content and reduction in subcutaneous water.


 You have so much knowledge it's incredible! Learning so much from reading this thread and asking you a questions. Personally, do you find it easy to diet down to a low bf% i.e sub 8%? And if so what methods do you think does the trick for you i.e. certain drugs/dieting strategies etc that make dieting that bit easier for you? Or is your will power when dieting just very strong?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> You have so much knowledge it's incredible! Learning so much from reading this thread and asking you a questions. Personally, do you find it easy to diet down to a low bf% i.e sub 8%? And if so what methods do you think does the trick for you i.e. certain drugs/dieting strategies etc that make dieting that bit easier for you? Or is your will power when dieting just very strong?


 It's simple and easy. The biggest issue people run into is having the patience to get there or hunger and cravings due to poorly designed/restrictive diet plans.

There is no "trick". It's 100% calories in/out, period. The guys who think they can't get lean are 1. Eating more than they think 2. Overestimating their TDEE 3. Holding water and need to "woosh" https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat ( this happens more often with intense diets w/ big deficits)

You can generally expect to lose 2 lbs of fat per week if you are pretty fat, 1 lbs if you are average, and 0.5-0.75 lbs if you are already quite lean (10% and under). Guys and girls are out here believing they lose 13 lbs in one week because they went low carb/zero carb, all they did was drop a ton of glycogen/water which is actually counter-productive to fat loss/performance in the long run, but it makes them feel like they accomplished something. Real fat loss is slow and steady. The key is FAT LOSS, not WEIGHT LOSS. Very few people know the difference, to their detriment.

If you eat properly during a cut, willpower is not as important. Restrictive diets are what causes lapses in consistency/adherence for most people. The cutting diet should be enjoyable to an extent. You can fit in desserts/comfort foods/etc. Without adherence/consistency, NO diet will work.

Personally, i do not use any fat burners for fat loss. They aren't necessary, they just speed up the process. Your fundamental driver of fat loss will always be ; Caloric deficit.

Adding 20-40 mins of light cardio is as potent as taking very high dose clenbuterol with tons of health benefits and no negative side effects/consequences.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Times are weird, many raw powder suppliers had to shutdown permanently early this year because of new Chinese laws and then COVID-19 hit. This may have affected the quality of some labs. There are many parts of the process where things can go wrong, as i always say. Raw powder prices had gone up last i check for many people, not sure if that has changed.
> 
> First the raw powder supplier needs to have integrity, then the brewer/lab.


 I bought this Sustanon months before Covid lol. Maybe the test is wrong I'll take another test.


----------



## sohamboy20

ElChapo said:


> Most don't realize this because they don't run it for long enough periods for it to kick in fully.


 How long would you recommend winstrol to be run for?


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I bought this Sustanon months before Covid lol. Maybe the test is wrong I'll take another test.


 Unlikely to be the test, but you can try. It's possible.

The Chinese laws affecting the sales/export of raw hormone powders went into effect on January 1st.


----------



## ElChapo

sohamboy20 said:


> How long would you recommend winstrol to be run for?


 To see best results, 8-12 weeks. Run TUDCA/NAC 250-500 mg + 1000 mg respectively. Avoid alcohol and liver toxic meds like tylenol during this time.


----------



## strengthnsize

ElChapo said:


> 1. Will power 2. EC stack or strong pre-workout or lots of caffeine
> 
> I would do at least 10 mg daily. I had great results doing 40 mg MWF injectable.
> 
> It's unlikely the lethargy is due to liver toxicity. Androgens tend to displace cortisols effects on the body, which may lead to fatigue. Taking cortisol tabs can actually have an energizing effect and give people energy and sometimes even manic episodes.
> 
> The guys are attributing the fatigue to liver toxicity. The objective signs of acute liver toxicity are 1. Elevated AST/ALT/GGT and 2. Jaundince (yellow skin and/or eyes). Most bodybuilders/recreational lifters use subjective signs to guess what is going on in the body.
> 
> Winstrol increases TGF-beta, this peptide has been linked to male pattern hair loss. I find that consistent nizoral use blocks the hair thinning effect of winstrol/masteron, including in other people who report the same. Nizoral can even reverse some hair loss/thinning.
> 
> The joint pain may also be due to some effect on collagen, i have a theory that low Vitamin D may be a factor (extrapolating from a study where aromatase inhibitor meds used in breast cancer caused joint pain in women with low vitamin D). I've never had joint issues and my vitamin D is always in the optimal range, but again it's just a grasp at straw theory of mine.
> 
> Winstrol made me the strongest i've ever been (world class/elite levels of strength). It's incredible for mass gain/strength/fat loss, very versatile, very cheap, and very easy to source. Most don't realize this because they don't run it for long enough periods for it to kick in fully.


 Great response, thanks. Also the D3 theory is interesting, I also haven't had any joint issues before but my D3 levels are consistently at the upper end of the range since I supplement it pretty heavily. On the same topic I see people complaining of joint issues on masteron which I've never had but this makes me think that the androgenicity of some drugs causes issues when E2 levels aren't supraphysiological too. I had mild joint discomfort when I had in range testosterone and estrogen whilst using proviron but my E2 has been 2-4x the upper limit of the reference range since using masteron which may be why I haven't had any issues. Also some of the powerlifters I've spoken to who don't seem to have joint issues on winstrol also tend to use fairly high testosterone dosages and 0 AI, which may also be another reason why there are so many mixed views on the drug.

Also I can certainly attest to nizorals positive effects on hair. I don't really have MPB on either side of the family from what I see but since using the shampoo 2-3x a week since January I don't think I've seen any hair loss from running compounds like mast or tren but this may just be the result of other factors too.

I also asked Alex Kikel if you know who that is what drugs he likes to use with athletes entering strength blocks yesterday, purely from a neurological standpoint, and he said winstrol and anavar are typically his go-to's with superdrol also having interesting properties too but I believe he likes to keep drugs like superdrol and halotestin towards the end of a peaking block from what I understood.

I'm going to be entering my strength training block in around 3-4 weeks and that'll be the last block before my cycle of test mast and tren ends, I'm going to be introducing the orals into my cycle soon and wanted to know whether I should implement 10mg of SD or 25mg winstrol into my stack? You're a great salesman for both drugs haha. I'm also leaning towards implementing 30-50mg of anavar daily too purely because I have it left over, respond very well to it strength wise (making me stronger daily whilst on a deficit at 30mg/d the last time I used it) and side effect wise, and for whatever reason it seems to mediate any tendon and muscle tightness issues I have. I'm wary of using doses in excess of 60mg a day though since it largely metabolises in the kidneys and because of its price.


----------



## ElChapo

strengthnsize said:


> Great response, thanks. Also the D3 theory is interesting, I also haven't had any joint issues before but my D3 levels are consistently at the upper end of the range since I supplement it pretty heavily. On the same topic I see people complaining of joint issues on masteron which I've never had but this makes me think that the androgenicity of some drugs causes issues when E2 levels aren't supraphysiological too. I had mild joint discomfort when I had in range testosterone and estrogen whilst using proviron but my E2 has been 2-4x the upper limit of the reference range since using masteron which may be why I haven't had any issues. Also some of the powerlifters I've spoken to who don't seem to have joint issues on winstrol also tend to use fairly high testosterone dosages and 0 AI, which may also be another reason why there are so many mixed views on the drug.
> 
> Also I can certainly attest to nizorals positive effects on hair. I don't really have MPB on either side of the family from what I see but since using the shampoo 2-3x a week since January I don't think I've seen any hair loss from running compounds like mast or tren but this may just be the result of other factors too.
> 
> I also asked Alex Kikel if you know who that is what drugs he likes to use with athletes entering strength blocks yesterday, purely from a neurological standpoint, and he said winstrol and anavar are typically his go-to's with superdrol also having interesting properties too but I believe he likes to keep drugs like superdrol and halotestin towards the end of a peaking block from what I understood.
> 
> I'm going to be entering my strength training block in around 3-4 weeks and that'll be the last block before my cycle of test mast and tren ends, I'm going to be introducing the orals into my cycle soon and wanted to know whether I should implement 10mg of SD or 25mg winstrol into my stack? You're a great salesman for both drugs haha. I'm also leaning towards implementing 30-50mg of anavar daily too purely because I have it left over, respond very well to it strength wise (making me stronger daily whilst on a deficit at 30mg/d the last time I used it) and side effect wise, and for whatever reason it seems to mediate any tendon and muscle tightness issues I have. I'm wary of using doses in excess of 60mg a day though since it largely metabolises in the kidneys and because of its price.


 Why only 25 mg winstrol? If you are intermediate-advanced, 50 mg is excellent. 100 mg for guys with a lot of experience/elite level of strength and/or mass. Nothing made me stronger than 50 mg winstrol. Think top 0.1% percentile of strength


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Is it noticeable? If it's not, i would not give two shits about it, but if you have OCD, it may be bothering you at a psychological level.
> 
> If 20 weeks of nolvadex didn't do it, then it's unlikely to go away permanently and will flare back up especially if you startup AAS again. If it's no noticeable to the naked eye, i would stop worrying about it, otherwise, the surgery is a good option.


 @ElChapo Thanks. It's not noticeable at all so I'm not bothered aesthetics wise but it does hurt when pressure is applied on my chest (e.g. when laying face-down in bed, doing chest-supported rows, etc.)

Is this still ok to ignore and live with from a health risk perpective?


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> It's simple and easy. The biggest issue people run into is having the patience to get there or hunger and cravings due to poorly designed/restrictive diet plans.
> 
> There is no "trick". It's 100% calories in/out, period. The guys who think they can't get lean are 1. Eating more than they think 2. Overestimating their TDEE 3. Holding water and need to "woosh" https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat ( this happens more often with intense diets w/ big deficits)
> 
> You can generally expect to lose 2 lbs of fat per week if you are pretty fat, 1 lbs if you are average, and 0.5-0.75 lbs if you are already quite lean (10% and under). Guys and girls are out here believing they lose 13 lbs in one week because they went low carb/zero carb, all they did was drop a ton of glycogen/water which is actually counter-productive to fat loss/performance in the long run, but it makes them feel like they accomplished something. Real fat loss is slow and steady. The key is FAT LOSS, not WEIGHT LOSS. Very few people know the difference, to their detriment.
> 
> If you eat properly during a cut, willpower is not as important. Restrictive diets are what causes lapses in consistency/adherence for most people. The cutting diet should be enjoyable to an extent. You can fit in desserts/comfort foods/etc. Without adherence/consistency, NO diet will work.
> 
> Personally, i do not use any fat burners for fat loss. They aren't necessary, they just speed up the process. Your fundamental driver of fat loss will always be ; Caloric deficit.
> 
> Adding 20-40 mins of light cardio is as potent as taking very high dose clenbuterol with tons of health benefits and no negative side effects/consequences.


 I feel stupid asking this but can you explain more about the "whoosh" as I don't quite understand what Lyle is talking about when I click into that link


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I'm thinking of getting my gyno cut , in my country.

Do you recommend talking about AAS use ? before I can get surgery done , they will send me see an endocrinologist , do blood test , and radio of my chest.

I would prefer not but that s how it works here


----------



## Tricky

delbo said:


> I feel stupid asking this but can you explain more about the "whoosh" as I don't quite understand what Lyle is talking about when I click into that link


 Mate I'm happy to talk here please refrain from sending me private messages. Good luck


----------



## delbo

Tricky said:


> Mate I'm happy to talk here please refrain from sending me private messages. Good luck


 haha fair enough bud appreciate it, but if i have any questions that Elchapo or ghost cant answer, i'll be sure to head over to your AMA and ask you there


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Does small dose T3 (12.5mg) affect the nervous system ?

I mean enough to feel it . it seems like I've got more adrenaline and I'm more 'explosive' . a little bit flatter than usual but I'm feeling better on this small dose .

Only downside is that I sweat more


----------



## scottomus0

Hey Bud.

im 2 weeks out from my photoshoot. Running 600 test, 400 mast week. 50mg var daily

i really wanted to utilise tren Ace, but coach advised against it saying it's not needed. Is it too late anyway to see sufficient changes withing such an short time ? Anything else you would add otherwise ?

taking 12.5 aromasin x3 a week also which I personally don't think I need for Estro management, but being used for 'drying' effects..

Pics for reference, from last week! Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> @ElChapo Thanks. It's not noticeable at all so I'm not bothered aesthetics wise but it does hurt when pressure is applied on my chest (e.g. when laying face-down in bed, doing chest-supported rows, etc.)
> 
> Is this still ok to ignore and live with from a health risk perpective?


 Completely safe. I wouldn't worry about it. The surgery would be more of a health risk.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> I feel stupid asking this but can you explain more about the "whoosh" as I don't quite understand what Lyle is talking about when I click into that link


 It's a phenomenon where you burn fat during a cut, but you temporarily hold so much water in the empty fat cells that it makes you look and weigh like you haven't lost fat. Randomly, you have a "woosh" and drop all that water overnight.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I'm thinking of getting my gyno cut , in my country.
> 
> Do you recommend talking about AAS use ? before I can get surgery done , they will send me see an endocrinologist , do blood test , and radio of my chest.
> 
> I would prefer not but that s how it works here


 Personally, no. There is zero benefit to yourself and the doctors knowing you take AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Does small dose T3 (12.5mg) affect the nervous system ?
> 
> I mean enough to feel it . it seems like I've got more adrenaline and I'm more 'explosive' . a little bit flatter than usual but I'm feeling better on this small dose .
> 
> Only downside is that I sweat more


 Yes it can. It can be energizing.


----------



## ElChapo

scottomus0 said:


> Hey Bud.
> 
> im 2 weeks out from my photoshoot. Running 600 test, 400 mast week. 50mg var daily
> 
> i really wanted to utilise tren Ace, but coach advised against it saying it's not needed. Is it too late anyway to see sufficient changes withing such an short time ? Anything else you would add otherwise ?
> 
> taking 12.5 aromasin x3 a week also which I personally don't think I need for Estro management, but being used for 'drying' effects..
> 
> Pics for reference, from last week! Cheers
> 
> View attachment 185699
> 
> 
> View attachment 185701


 Tren ace would be kicking in at around 2 weeks. It could make a difference, you can sometimes see a boost in vascularity in a few days from it. It wouldn't hurt, i would do a front load as well. (double up on week 1)

For next time, if you want a freakier/dryer/tighter look, switch out to Test P and winstrol for Test E and anavar. Switch out mast for tren ace. You will look dryer and more 3D. Masteron is a fairly lack luster AAS.

This all depends on the look you are going for, test 600 can cause some Sub q film of water independent of Estradiol level. Test P prevents this, winstrol further sucks out more SQ water, tren will pop the muscle bellies out further.


----------



## pma111

With gyms still closed during lockdown restrictions..working on the basis during a cut that 'using muscle' and adequate protein is the best bet for pushing the body to spare muscle and use fat for energy to make up for the lack of dietry calories...how important is the weight used to 'use muscle' in this practice. Would body weight excercises (no home equitpment) alone trick the brain into sparing muscle and tapping into fat for the energy during a cut. Or is the weight and amount of strain put on muscles quite key to save muscle/use body fat


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

im having to stop DNP as I cannot work while on it. So for a cut planning 8+ weeks most likely as I'm currently 6ft 101kg about 20% looking to get down to around 12% and maintain that.

T3 50mcg, winny 50mg all throughout

what dose test low or high? I want to avoid tren so should I use mast or is not going to bring much to the party? I can't get clen only albuterol which is 8mg tablets. I've never used it before what dose and duration if I should use it?

it will be aggressive from the start around 800kcals below


----------



## godsgifttoearth

ElChapo said:


> Tren ace would be kicking in at around 2 weeks. It could make a difference, you can sometimes see a boost in vascularity in a few days from it. It wouldn't hurt, i would do a front load as well. (double up on week 1)
> 
> For next time, if you want a freakier/dryer/tighter look, switch out to Test P and winstrol for Test E and anavar. Switch out mast for tren ace. You will look dryer and more 3D. Masteron is a fairly lack luster AAS.
> 
> This all depends on the look you are going for, test 600 can cause some Sub q film of water independent of Estradiol level. Test P prevents this, winstrol further sucks out more SQ water, tren will pop the muscle bellies out further.





scottomus0 said:


> Hey Bud.
> 
> im 2 weeks out from my photoshoot. Running 600 test, 400 mast week. 50mg var daily
> 
> i really wanted to utilise tren Ace, but coach advised against it saying it's not needed. Is it too late anyway to see sufficient changes withing such an short time ? Anything else you would add otherwise ?
> 
> taking 12.5 aromasin x3 a week also which I personally don't think I need for Estro management, but being used for 'drying' effects..
> 
> Pics for reference, from last week! Cheers
> 
> View attachment 185699
> 
> 
> View attachment 185701


 so i've just started trying out 20mg superdrol with 50mg var.

If you want the sort of "tren" look in about 3 days, you could give it a go. first 2 days i had the carb cravings and was binging about 600g carbs per day. im 3kg up and my muscle is full and bulging but its not a dry look until the bloaty water comes off but then, cos there's that much water in the muscle cos of the glycogen, its not a hard grainy muscle look.

i seem to get a bit of water retention and bloat from SD for the first week, so keep that i mind but you might be able to peak with the Sdrol then dump the water with dehydration etc the days before.


----------



## cell-tech

@ElChapo

Is it safe to use vials of tren enth that are 3 years out of date? And will the potency be the same?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> im having to stop DNP as I cannot work while on it. So for a cut planning 8+ weeks most likely as I'm currently 6ft 101kg about 20% looking to get down to around 12% and maintain that.
> 
> T3 50mcg, winny 50mg all throughout
> 
> what dose test low or high? I want to avoid tren so should I use mast or is not going to bring much to the party? I can't get clen only albuterol which is 8mg tablets. I've never used it before what dose and duration if I should use it?
> 
> it will be aggressive from the start around 800kcals below


 How long are you going to maintain 12% for?

I ask because if the answer is "long term", then what's the rush?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> im having to stop DNP as I cannot work while on it. So for a cut planning 8+ weeks most likely as I'm currently 6ft 101kg about 20% looking to get down to around 12% and maintain that.
> 
> T3 50mcg, winny 50mg all throughout
> 
> what dose test low or high? I want to avoid tren so should I use mast or is not going to bring much to the party? I can't get clen only albuterol which is 8mg tablets. I've never used it before what dose and duration if I should use it?
> 
> it will be aggressive from the start around 800kcals below


 T3 is a shitty standalone fat burner. It can and usually will make you flat and hungry. Don't recommend it.

EC stack and yohimbine are much better,

For DNP lethargy; use 200 mg+EC stack. That will do the trick. (if you want to give it another shot)

Test dose depends on your experience level/muscularity and genetics. Most people will cut fine on 300-600 mg testosterone weekly+winstrol 50 mg daily. No need for mast/tren.

I wouldn't use Albuterol as a fat burner. Some people have, but I'm not familiar with dosing and would stick to something tried and true.

How much DNP were you running?


----------



## ElChapo

godsgifttoearth said:


> so i've just started trying out 20mg superdrol with 50mg var.
> 
> If you want the sort of "tren" look in about 3 days, you could give it a go. first 2 days i had the carb cravings and was binging about 600g carbs per day. im 3kg up and my muscle is full and bulging but its not a dry look until the bloaty water comes off but then, cos there's that much water in the muscle cos of the glycogen, its not a hard grainy muscle look.
> 
> i seem to get a bit of water retention and bloat from SD for the first week, so keep that i mind but you might be able to peak with the Sdrol then dump the water with dehydration etc the days before.


 Correct, orals kick in very fast. Sdrol and winstrol can polish and pump a physique very fast.


----------



## ElChapo

cell-tech said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is it safe to use vials of tren enth that are 3 years out of date? And will the potency be the same?


 Yes and yes. Unless it was in direct sunlight and heat for a long time.


----------



## Mickstar

Hi mate ive been cutting during lockdown, getting my bodyfat down so when the gyms open i can go back into a surplus at a better starting point.

Ive been cutting on 200mg of test and making decent progress, ive just ordered some winstrol. Ive never taken any any orals before only done test only cycles previously.

Im wondering should i continue the cut on test only until gyms open again in roughly 4-5 weeks, or can i add in 50mg of winstrol the now. Would i benefit more if i hold the winstrol off.


----------



## Tricky

arbffgadm100 said:


> How long are you going to maintain 12% for?
> 
> I ask because if the answer is "long term", then what's the rush?


 For holidays for a few weeks early sept if all goes right with lockdown


----------



## Tricky

ElChapo said:


> T3 is a shitty standalone fat burner. It can and usually will make you flat and hungry. Don't recommend it.
> 
> EC stack and yohimbine are much better,
> 
> For DNP lethargy; use 200 mg+EC stack. That will do the trick. (if you want to give it another shot)
> 
> Test dose depends on your experience level/muscularity and genetics. Most people will cut fine on 300-600 mg testosterone weekly+winstrol 50 mg daily. No need for mast/tren.
> 
> I wouldn't use Albuterol as a fat burner. Some people have, but I'm not familiar with dosing and would stick to something tried and true.
> 
> How much DNP were you running?


 Ok thanks. I'll maybe not bother with t3 as I do remember previously it made me hungry and I know it makes you flat. Cutting kcals hard for 6/8 weeks will I not need any tho?

dnp I was on 200mg of regal labs and the sweat and uncomfortable stickyness in work was unbearable. I was used to getting up at night for the extra piss and to drink a pint of water with electrolytes but I couldn't work properly without people asking the issues and in my line of work I couldn't use it. In the past I've loved 3 weeks dnp blasts.

For the test I'll go in the middle then at 450mg as my test is 300mg per ml. I know you rate winny and I do to for strength but as it's a cut would you add var?


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Not if you run it properly. I only recommend 200-300 daily w/ 20-40 mins very light cardio and 1,000 calorie deficit. That will absolutely melt fat off while limiting side effects and danger. You can also stack it with EC stack or yohimbine to further hypercharge the fat loss, increase energy, and training intensity.
> 
> It will work at any body fat level, If you are going under 10%, always add Yohimbine HCl. Yohimbine makes stubborn fat easier to burn off by directly attacking the mechanism that makes it "stubborn" (Increased density of Alpha-2 adrenergic receptors).
> 
> Rebounding after fat loss has 100% to do with your caloric intake and activity levels AFTER the fat loss. If you stay at maintenance, you will not gain the fat back. The thing is that when you get under 10% body fat, most people's metabolism slow down a bit, so you have to adjust your maintenance calories downwards for this. It helps a lot to stay active and do cardio to maintain low body fat levels as it lets you eat more while staying lean.
> 
> Yohimbine basically makes stubborn fat into regular fat, it increases energy, and even libido/erection strength. It's a very cool compound, don't take too much or it can cause very high BP/anxiety issues if you are susceptible to them. No one should ever need more than 25 mg daily. Do NOT confuse Yohimbine HCl (Good) with Yohimbe (Not as effective).
> 
> Yohimbine HCl is like the caffeine of the Yohimbe plant. When you buy Yohimbine HCl you are buying the isolated active component of the yohimbe plant.
> 
> Think of it like this Yohimbine HCl = Caffeine (Active chemicals) Yohimbe = Coffee (Plant)


 Great to see this thread is still going, hope you and your family are doing well El Chapo.

Just ordered some Yohimbine as the rest of my body seems leaner than my stomach should be to see if this helps.

Would you just take the full dose when you wake up and then do some fasted cardio before breakfast?

Thanks


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Completely safe. I wouldn't worry about it. The surgery would be more of a health risk.


 @ElChapo Thanks mate. Can you please help look at the numbers from my last bloodwork? Is there anything in particular that jumps out that could perhaps explain the persistent recurring gyno? Just wondering if there are other avenues worth a try to get rid of the pea-sized lump.

Male, 30 y/o

Testosterone 25.54 nmol/L
Free Testosterone 0.417 nmol/L
Bioavailable Testosterone 11.077 nmol/L
SHBG 47.8 nmol/L
E2 167.4 pmol/L
LH 5.28 iu/L
FSH 5.2 iu/L
Progesterone 1.4 nmol/L
Prolactin 7.3 ug/L
IGF1 171ng/ml

Appreciate your help!


----------



## hondastu

Hi @ElChapo is this the Nizoral you recommend for hair loss prevention? is doesn't mention a percentage...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nizoral-Dandruff-Shampoo-Perfect-Flaky/dp/B001ETUD5I/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2O5L8G1W9A03S&dchild=1&keywords=nizoral+shampoo+ketoconazole&qid=1593523987&sprefix=nizoral%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1


----------



## delbo

Recommended ZMA protocol before bed? Also do you find it useful?

a;so, thinking about investing in a Pre workout supp, preferably one with pump ingredients, mostly for the phsycological effect i use to get on taking a pre workout before training (many years ago) however im also considering sticking with my current pre workout stack of black coffee, 3g pink salt, 5mg EOD cialis. Do you think it would be beneficial to take a pre? and if so what would be you go-to pre?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I followed your advice , I started taking test P instead of test E , I prefer it better because I 'feel' it more.

I take 100mg E3D , but since I switched I'm starting to feel high hematocrit symptoms .

I'm already taking grapefruit seed extract and naringin , green tea caps with each meal and doing cardio daily , drinking a lot.

I donated blood 2 months ago too ( my RBC was at 18.6 , HTC at 54.2%) , they told me that my RBC is too high that I can't give anymore if it's not under 18 .

Tomorrow im doing a blood test to check everything and if my RBC is under 18 I'll be able to donate blood soon.

Is there other things I can do to keep hematocrit under control on low dose test (250mg) ?


----------



## pma111

If CRP is a 'risk factor' for heart disease, does that mean any inflammatory health issue e.g. arthritis, crohns, gastritis, asthma, colitis. Etc etc which can also lead to high CRP are also therefore possible risk factors for heart disease?


----------



## TURBS

hondastu said:


> Hi @ElChapo is this the Nizoral you recommend for hair loss prevention? is doesn't mention a percentage...
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nizoral-Dandruff-Shampoo-Perfect-Flaky/dp/B001ETUD5I/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2O5L8G1W9A03S&dchild=1&keywords=nizoral+shampoo+ketoconazole&qid=1593523987&sprefix=nizoral%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1


 Says 20mg/g on bottle which is the required 2% stuff


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi mate ive been cutting during lockdown, getting my bodyfat down so when the gyms open i can go back into a surplus at a better starting point.
> 
> Ive been cutting on 200mg of test and making decent progress, ive just ordered some winstrol. Ive never taken any any orals before only done test only cycles previously.
> 
> Im wondering should i continue the cut on test only until gyms open again in roughly 4-5 weeks, or can i add in 50mg of winstrol the now. Would i benefit more if i hold the winstrol off.


 Are you lifting weights? You could get a recomp effect from the winstrol depending on your experience level. If you are doing well holding muscle/strength right now though, you could save the winstrol for the bulk. All of this depends on your current results and experience level.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Ok thanks. I'll maybe not bother with t3 as I do remember previously it made me hungry and I know it makes you flat. Cutting kcals hard for 6/8 weeks will I not need any tho?
> 
> dnp I was on 200mg of regal labs and the sweat and uncomfortable stickyness in work was unbearable. I was used to getting up at night for the extra piss and to drink a pint of water with electrolytes but I couldn't work properly without people asking the issues and in my line of work I couldn't use it. In the past I've loved 3 weeks dnp blasts.
> 
> For the test I'll go in the middle then at 450mg as my test is 300mg per ml. I know you rate winny and I do to for strength but as it's a cut would you add var?


 T3 won't help you enough to make up for the draw backs and 6-8 week cut is fairly standard, not a long time at all, even with a harsh deficit.

Winstrol makes even more sense for cutting since it dries you out. I would prefer it to anavar in a cut. There is a reason it is extremely popular with athletes. It keeps your weight down while maintaining/increasing muscle strength/endurance. It's cheap, easy to find, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Great to see this thread is still going, hope you and your family are doing well El Chapo.
> 
> Just ordered some Yohimbine as the rest of my body seems leaner than my stomach should be to see if this helps.
> 
> Would you just take the full dose when you wake up and then do some fasted cardio before breakfast?
> 
> Thanks


 Thank you

Yes, full dose 15-20 mins before fasted cardio is ideal. Then you can break your fast with snack/meal/breakfast or keep fasting a little bit longer after your cardio.

Yohimbine works best when you are down to that stubborn fat in the stomach area, it goes into the alpha-2 adrenergic receptors in the stubborn fat , which makes it behave more like normal fat.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> @ElChapo Thanks mate. Can you please help look at the numbers from my last bloodwork? Is there anything in particular that jumps out that could perhaps explain the persistent recurring gyno? Just wondering if there are other avenues worth a try to get rid of the pea-sized lump.
> 
> Male, 30 y/o
> 
> Testosterone 25.54 nmol/L
> Free Testosterone 0.417 nmol/L
> Bioavailable Testosterone 11.077 nmol/L
> SHBG 47.8 nmol/L
> E2 167.4 pmol/L
> LH 5.28 iu/L
> FSH 5.2 iu/L
> Progesterone 1.4 nmol/L
> Prolactin 7.3 ug/L
> IGF1 171ng/ml
> 
> Appreciate your help!


 Nope, probably just genetics. You can see some gyno even in lean athletes sometimes if you look closely. If it's truly pea-sized and unnoticeable, try your best to pay it no mind because it will not affect you in anyway negatively.


----------



## ElChapo

hondastu said:


> Hi @ElChapo is this the Nizoral you recommend for hair loss prevention? is doesn't mention a percentage...
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nizoral-Dandruff-Shampoo-Perfect-Flaky/dp/B001ETUD5I/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2O5L8G1W9A03S&dchild=1&keywords=nizoral+shampoo+ketoconazole&qid=1593523987&sprefix=nizoral%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1


 Yep, that's it. That's 2 %

Not available without Rx in the USA for us.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Recommended ZMA protocol before bed? Also do you find it useful?
> 
> a;so, thinking about investing in a Pre workout supp, preferably one with pump ingredients, mostly for the phsycological effect i use to get on taking a pre workout before training (many years ago) however im also considering sticking with my current pre workout stack of black coffee, 3g pink salt, 5mg EOD cialis. Do you think it would be beneficial to take a pre? and if so what would be you go-to pre?


 Not really, you are better off getting a good multivitamin. They will contain good amount of zinc. You can add magnesium if your diet is lacking (low in nuts, greens, potatoes, etc)

Personally, i never got into the pre-workout thing. I just do coffee and good music. A good pre-workout is useful if you are tired from work or have a weird schedule though. I wouldn't change anything if your current stack is working for you. Back in the day, the only supplement guys were running was whey. Now it's a whole line of preworkouts, NO boosters, intra-workouts, etc. Most of this s**t is unnecessary and just lines the companies with tons of $$$. They are very good at advertising by posting your favorite bodybuilder taking the stuff, fancy magazine ads, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I followed your advice , I started taking test P instead of test E , I prefer it better because I 'feel' it more.
> 
> I take 100mg E3D , but since I switched I'm starting to feel high hematocrit symptoms .
> 
> I'm already taking grapefruit seed extract and naringin , green tea caps with each meal and doing cardio daily , drinking a lot.
> 
> I donated blood 2 months ago too ( my RBC was at 18.6 , HTC at 54.2%) , they told me that my RBC is too high that I can't give anymore if it's not under 18 .
> 
> Tomorrow im doing a blood test to check everything and if my RBC is under 18 I'll be able to donate blood soon.
> 
> Is there other things I can do to keep hematocrit under control on low dose test (250mg) ?


 Once it's elevated, your options are:

1. Try to overhydrate before your blood donation. Overhydrating will drop your HCT a couple of points, and being even slightly dehydrated can increase your HCT %.

2. Lower Test dose or increase frequency and wait until blood cell turn over naturally lowers your HCT. This takes about 3 months.

3. Some guys self-phlebotomize. This is obviously not recommend, i do know people that do it. I know that in the UK, there are AAS support clinics that provide lab work, needles, etc. Maybe they can provide a script for phlebotomy. Not sure.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> If CRP is a 'risk factor' for heart disease, does that mean any inflammatory health issue e.g. arthritis, crohns, gastritis, asthma, colitis. Etc etc which can also lead to high CRP are also therefore possible risk factors for heart disease?


 Yes, inflammatory chemicals in the blood can cause issues to the whole system. This is also one of those "chicken or the egg" scenarios. Having atherosclerosis may elevated CRP and the CRP may aggravate atherosclerosis.


----------



## Mickstar

ElChapo said:


> Are you lifting weights? You could get a recomp effect from the winstrol depending on your experience level. If you are doing well holding muscle/strength right now though, you could save the winstrol for the bulk. All of this depends on your current results and experience level.


 Thanks mate, yeah ive continued to train at home during all this, so holding onto muscle mass. I was thinking what about using a small dose of winstrol say 25mg along with the test. This will be my first kind of cut for a while,as ive been in a surplus for a while putting weight on. Would that dose of winstrol be effective for myself, as ive never used it before. Weight on the scale is slowly coming down but visualy im looking better.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## Ironman TS

ElChapo said:


> Thank you
> 
> Yes, full dose 15-20 mins before fasted cardio is ideal. Then you can break your fast with snack/meal/breakfast or keep fasting a little bit longer after your cardio.
> 
> Yohimbine works best when you are down to that stubborn fat in the stomach area, it goes into the alpha-2 adrenergic receptors in the stubborn fat , which makes it behave more like normal fat.


 @El Chapo
Does this apply to stubborn fat in general or is there something specific to abdominal fat deposits? I ask as I have some stubborn lower chest fat to shift and hope Yohimbine will help over time.


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo

whats your view on anti ageing for long term fitness, fat reduction, fitness, sleep, recovery, adding lbm ect? I'm curious after watching the documentaries ICRAUS and Screwball. The use of test prop, HGH, winny seem to be the main ones used. What would your optimal dose and duration for long term for one who is looking to just enjoy life improving recovery, sleep, optimising fat loss whilst weight training with quite intense cardio for all round Benifit in all areas.


----------



## zariph

Hello mate!

Will it reduce performance and or musclegain if I donate blood? If so for how long will it effect my performance? - Do you recommend donating blood when doing AAS?

If I want to add an oral either winstrol or anadrol, or even both when running test/deca or test/tren, what will be the lowest dose to run for these orals. Will 25 Adrol be enough to see anything from it, or 20mg winny?

Will I see any benifits of mixing these two orals at lower dosage?


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> Not really, you are better off getting a good multivitamin. They will contain good amount of zinc. You can add magnesium if your diet is lacking (low in nuts, greens, potatoes, etc)
> 
> Personally, i never got into the pre-workout thing. I just do coffee and good music. A good pre-workout is useful if you are tired from work or have a weird schedule though. I wouldn't change anything if your current stack is working for you. Back in the day, the only supplement guys were running was whey. Now it's a whole line of preworkouts, NO boosters, intra-workouts, etc. Most of this s**t is unnecessary and just lines the companies with tons of $$$. They are very good at advertising by posting your favorite bodybuilder taking the stuff, fancy magazine ads, etc.


 Thanks man, however I've read a lot about how there is insufficient evidence that the vitamins minerals etc from a multivitamin are absorbed by the body hence why I've always skipped a multi vit. What's your take on them? And do the cheaper generic ones do the job?


----------



## Jordan08

Hey Mate,

What would you look for in an Iron supplement?.

My ferritin levels are always on a lower side despite focusing on food rich in iron so thinking of adding an Iron supplement. Do you think it would be useful?. or iron is something not be messed up with until severe deficiencies?.


----------



## Ironman TS

@El Chapo

What's your thoughts on DOMs mate or more specifically a lack of DOMs post workout?

I train with plenty of intensity, typically to failure. Doesn't seem to matter what sort of volume I get through I rarely, if ever get DOMs on cycle nowadays. This wasn't the case in my 20s and 30s!

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Thanks mate, yeah ive continued to train at home during all this, so holding onto muscle mass. I was thinking what about using a small dose of winstrol say 25mg along with the test. This will be my first kind of cut for a while,as ive been in a surplus for a while putting weight on. Would that dose of winstrol be effective for myself, as ive never used it before. Weight on the scale is slowly coming down but visualy im looking better.
> 
> Thanks for your time.


 The goal is strength and muscle maintenance, if you are doing that fine now, then winstrol will have limited effect. Winstrol will help preserve muscle, especially as you get leaner but if you have good results with test only, i would save the winstrol for the bulk instead and keep your liver fresh.


----------



## ElChapo

Ironman TS said:


> @El Chapo
> Does this apply to stubborn fat in general or is there something specific to abdominal fat deposits? I ask as I have some stubborn lower chest fat to shift and hope Yohimbine will help over time.


 Stubborn fat in general. If you aren't already fairly lean (<12%) i would not worry about stubborn fat.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> whats your view on anti ageing for long term fitness, fat reduction, fitness, sleep, recovery, adding lbm ect? I'm curious after watching the documentaries ICRAUS and Screwball. The use of test prop, HGH, winny seem to be the main ones used. What would your optimal dose and duration for long term for one who is looking to just enjoy life improving recovery, sleep, optimising fat loss whilst weight training with quite intense cardio for all round Benifit in all areas.


 Winstrol and longetivity do not go in the same sentence.

HGH will not enhance longetivity but may maintain performance and aesthetics as you age. Too much is bad as it can mess with insulin sensitivity and can tax the heart among other issues. A good IGF-1 level to shoot for is 220-320 ng/mL for anti-aging.

For Testosterone; Heath/performance/longetivity, staying in the upper male range for total and free Testosterone and not dropping Estradiol too low is your best bet. Many tank their Estradiol due to overzealous AI use. Very common in the TRT profession.

There are two different types of "anti-aging". 1. Longetivity (extending lifespan) 2. Maintaining youthful aesthetics (skin/hair/muscles) and performance (strength/endurance). The two are very different things.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello mate!
> 
> Will it reduce performance and or musclegain if I donate blood? If so for how long will it effect my performance? - Do you recommend donating blood when doing AAS?
> 
> If I want to add an oral either winstrol or anadrol, or even both when running test/deca or test/tren, what will be the lowest dose to run for these orals. Will 25 Adrol be enough to see anything from it, or 20mg winny?
> 
> Will I see any benifits of mixing these two orals at lower dosage?


 Yes it can. It can take a few weeks to recover depending on your baseline iron and hemoglobin levels as well as the type of fitness activity. It can lower your strength a bit and will affect medium-long distance endurance. Double red donation will really mess up your performance for up to 2-3 months sometimes, but again depends on the context.

I cannot make recommendations without knowing all the details because every situation is different. I generally recommend keeping HCT no higher than 53% but caution with overdonation which can cause iron/Ferritin depletion which can affect endurance/mood/cognitive function and energy.

Depends on what you are trying to do. For building muscle, i would go for 50 mg. If you are going for an "elite natty" look, you can get away with 25 mg if you don't want to build too much muscle or look too freaky/enhanced. I prefer Sdrol/winstrol for their low effect on water/bloat and i like to keep things simple and stick to one oral at a time but combining them won't hurt either.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Thanks man, however I've read a lot about how there is insufficient evidence that the vitamins minerals etc from a multivitamin are absorbed by the body hence why I've always skipped a multi vit. What's your take on them? And do the cheaper generic ones do the job?


 Good question, there actually is some research showing benefits to taking multivitamins and their usefulness increases the more your diet is lacking in them.

Someone who does not consume fruits/vegetables is going to have poor intake of vitamin C and other nutrients which can impair mood, performance, etc.

There are studies showing how vegans have many vitamin and mineral deficiencies and that supplementation can help them a lot.

It is never as simple as "this study said" you need to analyze the methodology of the research to confirm it's validity. There is a reason elite athletes take multivitamins, they work.


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Hey Mate,
> 
> What would you look for in an Iron supplement?.
> 
> My ferritin levels are always on a lower side despite focusing on food rich in iron so thinking of adding an Iron supplement. Do you think it would be useful?. or iron is something not be messed up with until severe deficiencies?.


 Iron bisglycinate, main reason: Cheap and very well absorbed, very easy on the stomach.

Regular generic iron AKA ferrous sulfate can irritate your GI tract, cause diarrhea, nausea and sometimes even bleeding in the stomach.

It depends on your ferritin. I recommend staying above 70.


----------



## ElChapo

Ironman TS said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> What's your thoughts on DOMs mate or more specifically a lack of DOMs post workout?
> 
> I train with plenty of intensity, typically to failure. Doesn't seem to matter what sort of volume I get through I rarely, if ever get DOMs on cycle nowadays. This wasn't the case in my 20s and 30s!
> 
> Thanks.


 You don't need DOMS to get gains. That's a myth and common misconception.

The best way to gauge the effectiveness of your training plan is to keep track of the increase in reps/weigh in all your movements AKA progressive overload. If you are benching 225 lbs for 5 reps and 8 weeks later you are doing 225 lbs for 12 reps, your training is going very well and your muscle will grow (as long as you are eating enough calories). It has nothing to do with soreness.

You can get DOMS if you do 50 sets of push-ups to failure, but that won't build big muscles.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Yes it can. It can take a few weeks to recover depending on your baseline iron and hemoglobin levels as well as the type of fitness activity. It can lower your strength a bit and will affect medium-long distance endurance. Double red donation will really mess up your performance for up to 2-3 months sometimes, but again depends on the context.
> 
> I cannot make recommendations without knowing all the details because every situation is different. I generally recommend keeping HCT no higher than 53% but caution with overdonation which can cause iron/Ferritin depletion which can affect endurance/mood/cognitive function and energy.
> 
> Depends on what you are trying to do. For building muscle, i would go for 50 mg. If you are going for an "elite natty" look, you can get away with 25 mg if you don't want to build too much muscle or look too freaky/enhanced. I prefer Sdrol/winstrol for their low effect on water/bloat and i like to keep things simple and stick to one oral at a time but combining them won't hurt either.


 Thx!

Is it possible to tell somehow whether your HCT is too high besides blood tests?

As for the orals, im looking for something to boost the strength abit and build a little muscle. The cycle base will be test/tren or test/deca, so the oral is just a little addon. So will 25 mg adrol be too low for this?

If 50mg aint much worse than 25mg but the gains are way better I will go with 50.

You recommend adrol twice a day or is one time a day just as fine?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx!
> 
> Is it possible to tell somehow whether your HCT is too high besides blood tests?
> 
> As for the orals, im looking for something to boost the strength abit and build a little muscle. The cycle base will be test/tren or test/deca, so the oral is just a little addon. So will 25 mg adrol be too low for this?
> 
> If 50mg aint much worse than 25mg but the gains are way better I will go with 50.
> 
> You recommend adrol twice a day or is one time a day just as fine?


 No, but some symptoms are flushed face, shortness of breath, headaches. They also sell finger pr**k testers.

Just go with 50 mg winstrol or 20 mg superdrol.

If you are set on adrol, 50 mg once daily.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, but some symptoms are flushed face, shortness of breath, headaches. They also sell finger pr**k testers.
> 
> Just go with 50 mg winstrol or 20 mg superdrol.
> 
> If you are set on adrol, 50 mg once daily.


 Okay, if I go with wins or SD, is that also dosed once daily? Why you like those over anadrol?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Okay, if I go with wins or SD, is that also dosed once daily? Why you like those over anadrol?


 Once daily for all orals.

Winstrol and superdrol are extremely effective for increasing strength and muscle size while they don't increase water retention.

I'm assuming you already have anadrol on hand. You can just go with Anadrol. Many people love it.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Collagen supplementation in powder is useful for joints health ?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Once daily for all orals.
> 
> Winstrol and superdrol are extremely effective for increasing strength and muscle size while they don't increase water retention.
> 
> I'm assuming you already have anadrol on hand. You can just go with Anadrol. Many people love it.


 Great!

Just curious - Will it make any difference to split the dose or not? Im not quite sure about the half life of these orals but will higher peak lvls have an advantage over more steady lvls or is this overthinking?

I see you said dosing just once daily, but if you somehow could explain why this is the go to option?


----------



## hondastu

ElChapo said:


> Yep, that's it. That's 2 %
> 
> Not available without Rx in the USA for us.


 Cheers @ElChapo

How frequently do you recommend using it? And should you leave it in your hair for a period of time before rinsing it off?


----------



## JBlast

Best compounds for a cycle to look good? 
I would exclude tren because it gives a roid look.

What do you think of test p, masteron enanthate and winstrol?

The goal is to reach low body fat on 150mg test p only then I will do this cycle, please give me your opinions sir!


----------



## delbo

Just recently started my cut. AAS + 250mg dnp + eca. Looking cycle to be as short as possible 4-6 weeks. I have also got T3 here from a while back. Should I throw it in the mix too? I usually dont like t3 due to the fact it makes my cravings go through the roof. However I have never taken them with ECA. Would the t3 be beneficial in this stack?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

High RBC and hematocrit levels , high iron levels but normal ferritin levels ( 60 , range is 30-200) . 2 bloods donation before I was at 240 ferritin.

I'm at 60 but my iron levels are higher then normal range , and RBC high. should I still give blood?


----------



## wilko1985

hi @ElChapo

Its looking like from a few blood tests that the results are pointing to subclinical hyperthyroidism. My free T3 and T4 still look fairly consistent, but the TSH is steadily increasing.

Before the most recent test i started supplementing with Iodine to see if that would help. Any thoughts on trying to get my TSH level down or is it a case or maybe going to the GP and having to supplement with T3?

Im currently on 120mg Test E per week. I will be dropping this down to 90mg as my Test levels came in very high on the blood test.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo can you pinpoint (or give a link) as to how to correctly do injections like hgh?

For instance, I saw a medical clip stating that if you want 0.2 cc of the medication, you should always inject the same amount of air into the vial, before drawing the water mixed medication?


----------



## 89125

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo can you pinpoint (or give a link) as to how to correctly do injections like hgh?
> 
> For instance, I saw a medical clip stating that if you want 0.2 cc of the medication, you should always inject the same amount of air into the vial, before drawing the water mixed medication?


 You don't have to. It's water so will suck up fast. Putting air in the vial helps a little with oils bit even then it's not necessary.


----------



## Vinny

Hi @ElChapo

When is the ideal time after injecting test, to take a blood test?

I'm thinking 120mg Test E, Nexus, want to make sure I'm in range correctly (Not over or under doing it) Also want to know my hba1c.


----------



## iron2000

How fast does iron raise hemoglobin and hematocrit? I started taking 100mg of iron bisglycinate after I realised I might have anemia on a heavish cutting cycle. Had hemoglobin at 144 and hematocrit at 43%. Usually they would be at 165-170 and 50-52%. They never got to dangerous levels on any cycle for some reason so I haven't had to donate. I am guessing taking 700% of iron can change it as I have quite a bit of gear in me right now too. I never checked my ferritin levels but the way I feel now (1.5 wks later) makes me thinkI was spot on. Got so much energy again. Where to go from here? Stick to 100mg iron or will it get dangerous at some point? I probably don't get enough iron from my diet and my multi has everything but iron.


----------



## stuey99

@El Chapoadvice on haemoglobin as well pls mate...mine just came in at 191. Had issues last year where it was hovering just above high end of range. Has been within range a while now but just shot up


----------



## arbffgadm100

stuey99 said:


> @El Chapoadvice on haemoglobin as well pls mate...mine just came in at 191. Had issues last year where it was hovering just above high end of range. Has been within range a while now but just shot up


 Give blood right away mate. Several times if you can. That's really, really high.

In the meantime I would supplement with a baby asprin every day until it's back under 170.


----------



## CarrotTop

stuey99 said:


> @El Chapoadvice on haemoglobin as well pls mate...mine just came in at 191. Had issues last year where it was hovering just above high end of range. Has been within range a while now but just shot up


 Here's an idea....

Maybe try not blasting grams of gear when you've got a polycythaemia diagnosis

Should have stuck to low doses bruv


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Collagen supplementation in powder is useful for joints health ?


 There is enough evidence that there may be a benefit for joints. May also have benefits for skin, hair and nails.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great!
> 
> Just curious - Will it make any difference to split the dose or not? Im not quite sure about the half life of these orals but will higher peak lvls have an advantage over more steady lvls or is this overthinking?
> 
> I see you said dosing just once daily, but if you somehow could explain why this is the go to option?


 No, remember that most of your gains happen in the RECOVERY/RESTING period. That's when AAS are doing their job.

1. The half-life is not THAT short.

2. Gene expression is what makes AAS work. Gene expression effects are mostly independent of serum levels and have more to do with exposure overtime which turns on specific genes to produce the effects we are looking for from AAS (Increased protein/glycogen synthesis, nitrogen retention, recovery, etc). Keeping levels steady is not that important when it comes to genomic effects AKA gene expression. This is why you can run test prop once or even twice a week and still get results. Even after the AAS is out of the blood, the gene expression is still working.


----------



## ElChapo

hondastu said:


> Cheers @ElChapo
> 
> How frequently do you recommend using it? And should you leave it in your hair for a period of time before rinsing it off?


 At least 5 mins, you can put it in before you shave or soap yourself and by the time you are done, just rinse it off. Use it at least twice weekly. You could use it daily too, but some people's scalps will be dry/irritated. It depends on your type of hair/genetics. Give it 6 months to really work and use it forever. It's the most effective against MPB without resorting to finasteride.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Best compounds for a cycle to look good?
> I would exclude tren because it gives a roid look.
> 
> What do you think of test p, masteron enanthate and winstrol?
> 
> The goal is to reach low body fat on 150mg test p only then I will do this cycle, please give me your opinions sir!


 You mean a "natty" look? Stick to lower/medium doses of testosterone propionate. It will give you muscle fullness but keep the water/bloat down and not dry you out like tren/winstrol. 200-300 mg per week and get to 12% body fat or less. You will look amazing and this is where i get the most compliments from everyone. The "roid" look is cheesy to many people and looks obvious which detracts from how "impressive" it is to your average Joe/Jane.

Mast could work, winstrol will generally dry you out and make you more veiny, so more of the roid look to that. I would just do low-medium test prop and make sure you are 12% or under. Being lower body fat makes all the difference when looking good, natural or enhanced. Your muscle separation and proportions will come out, your face looks better, and even your pecker looks bigger, not to mention it's healthy. Win/Win situation

In your case i might cut down to 9-10% and then lean bulk on 300 mg test P to 12-13% and then cut and repeat. You should always try to stay under 13% so that you are never to far off from being cut/lean and always look good even when bulking. Dirty bulks have no real benefit other than gluttony and just lead to excessively long cutting periods.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Just recently started my cut. AAS + 250mg dnp + eca. Looking cycle to be as short as possible 4-6 weeks. I have also got T3 here from a while back. Should I throw it in the mix too? I usually dont like t3 due to the fact it makes my cravings go through the roof. However I have never taken them with ECA. Would the t3 be beneficial in this stack?


 I would keep the T3 out. That stack is already extremely potent. Let the DNP+ECA+Caloric deficit and light cardio/walking do the job. The fat will melt off. Like you said, T3 can increase hunger and can make you flat.

The ECA will give you energy and suppress hunger as well, while enhancing fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> High RBC and hematocrit levels , high iron levels but normal ferritin levels ( 60 , range is 30-200) . 2 bloods donation before I was at 240 ferritin.
> 
> I'm at 60 but my iron levels are higher then normal range , and RBC high. should I still give blood?


 How much higher than the top of the range? I need numbers for iron. Ferritin is the active iron bound to a protein in the blood.

How high is the RBC? You need to make sure you are well hydrated the day before and day of blood draw, because even slight dehydration can lead to artificially elevated HCT and RGB. You want your urine to be clear or light yellow.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> hi @ElChapo
> 
> Its looking like from a few blood tests that the results are pointing to subclinical hyperthyroidism. My free T3 and T4 still look fairly consistent, but the TSH is steadily increasing.
> 
> Before the most recent test i started supplementing with Iodine to see if that would help. Any thoughts on trying to get my TSH level down or is it a case or maybe going to the GP and having to supplement with T3?
> 
> Im currently on 120mg Test E per week. I will be dropping this down to 90mg as my Test levels came in very high on the blood test.
> 
> View attachment 186275


 Higher TSH generally points to hypo not hyperthyroidism. Your Free Thyroxine is actually a bit on the lower side, +19 is where healthy thyroids tend to be.

What symptoms are you experiencing, if any?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo can you pinpoint (or give a link) as to how to correctly do injections like hgh?
> 
> For instance, I saw a medical clip stating that if you want 0.2 cc of the medication, you should always inject the same amount of air into the vial, before drawing the water mixed medication?


 Correct, because of the pressure in the vial. If you keep drawing, it will create a vacuum that will pull into the vial, making drawing harder to do. Think of it like a pressurized cabin in an airplane.

There are a lot of good videos on youtube. It's very easy, even 90 year olds do it with ease multiple times a day.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> When is the ideal time after injecting test, to take a blood test?
> 
> I'm thinking 120mg Test E, Nexus, want to make sure I'm in range correctly (Not over or under doing it) Also want to know my hba1c.


 It takes 4-6 weeks for the levels to build up fully, technically your levels should be elevated after 2 injections though. I like to wait 4 weeks before testing a new source


----------



## ElChapo

iron2000 said:


> How fast does iron raise hemoglobin and hematocrit? I started taking 100mg of iron bisglycinate after I realised I might have anemia on a heavish cutting cycle. Had hemoglobin at 144 and hematocrit at 43%. Usually they would be at 165-170 and 50-52%. They never got to dangerous levels on any cycle for some reason so I haven't had to donate. I am guessing taking 700% of iron can change it as I have quite a bit of gear in me right now too. I never checked my ferritin levels but the way I feel now (1.5 wks later) makes me thinkI was spot on. Got so much energy again. Where to go from here? Stick to 100mg iron or will it get dangerous at some point? I probably don't get enough iron from my diet and my multi has everything but iron.


 Yes, when you take iron and are severely anemic, you can feel it as soon as a couple of days.

You need to re-test your ferritin, stop the iron 1-2 weeks before testing as it can elevate a bit if you are still taking it around the time you draw blood. I would aim for ferritin between 70-150. Ferritin goes up pretty slowly though, so you should be fine. I would definitely get a lab test to at least get a baseline/idea. Once you hit +70 ferritin , i would stop. You generally won't lose any unless you donate blood or bleed a lot. Women are more susceptible to having low iron because they have their menstrual cycle where they regularly lose blood.


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> @El Chapoadvice on haemoglobin as well pls mate...mine just came in at 191. Had issues last year where it was hovering just above high end of range. Has been within range a while now but just shot up


 You could try to donate, i would check ferritin first because one donation can drop your ferritin 40-60 points and you can easily end up anemic which can lead to fatigue and even mood/cognitive disturbances. Regular donation will likely pull you down to 180. Do you have HCT/Hematocrit value? Do you drink a lot of water? If you are even a little dehydrated, your hemoglobin will come out higher than it really is. You want your piss clear or light yellow the day before and day of blood test.


----------



## stuey99

CarrotTop said:


> Here's an idea....
> 
> Maybe try not blasting grams of gear when you've got a polycythaemia diagnosis
> 
> Should have stuck to low doses bruv


 I'm not on grams of gear

And don't have a polycythaemia diagnosis

Sorry to disappoint mate but I had a haemotologist tell me the doagnosis was premature


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Higher TSH generally points to hypo not hyperthyroidism. Your Free Thyroxine is actually a bit on the lower side, +19 is where healthy thyroids tend to be.
> 
> What symptoms are you experiencing, if any?


 I do get tired during the day a fair amount sometimes. For example I'll lose concentration and the drive to work. I regularly take afternoon naps if I can but I've always done this and my body parts can be cold as ice, but once again I've always had this.

Other than that I don't think I have any other symptoms.

Anything you'd recommend or should I maybe monitor and if it progresses go and see the GP?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> How much higher than the top of the range? I need numbers for iron. Ferritin is the active iron bound to a protein in the blood.
> 
> How high is the RBC? You need to make sure you are well hydrated the day before and day of blood draw, because even slight dehydration can lead to artificially elevated HCT and RGB. You want your urine to be clear or light yellow.


 i donated blood some days ago.

I was at 17.7 RBC (range is 13-18) , hematocrit 50.8 (range 42-52) 3 days before on my blood test I was at 18 RBC and 52.8 hematocrit.

I drink a lot like 5 liters a day , always white pee .

Iron I was at 193 (top range is 180) .

I need to give blood if I stay on Test , because at 18 RBC or more I get anxiety etc coming


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> No, remember that most of your gains happen in the RECOVERY/RESTING period. That's when AAS are doing their job.
> 
> 1. The half-life is not THAT short.
> 
> 2. Gene expression is what makes AAS work. Gene expression effects are mostly independent of serum levels and have more to do with exposure overtime which turns on specific genes to produce the effects we are looking for from AAS (Increased protein/glycogen synthesis, nitrogen retention, recovery, etc). Keeping levels steady is not that important when it comes to genomic effects AKA gene expression. This is why you can run test prop once or even twice a week and still get results. Even after the AAS is out of the blood, the gene expression is still working.


 Thank you, that was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for!

When should I expect to feel anadrol?


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> I do get tired during the day a fair amount sometimes. For example I'll lose concentration and the drive to work. I regularly take afternoon naps if I can but I've always done this and my body parts can be cold as ice, but once again I've always had this.
> 
> Other than that I don't think I have any other symptoms.
> 
> Anything you'd recommend or should I maybe monitor and if it progresses go and see the GP?


 Test Testosterone/Free Testosterone, Estradiol, Ferritin, vitamin B12, Vitamin D.

If all of those are fine, you can trial some Thyroid hormone. Your high TSH means your brain is asking for more thyroid hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> i donated blood some days ago.
> 
> I was at 17.7 RBC (range is 13-18) , hematocrit 50.8 (range 42-52) 3 days before on my blood test I was at 18 RBC and 52.8 hematocrit.
> 
> I drink a lot like 5 liters a day , always white pee .
> 
> Iron I was at 193 (top range is 180) .
> 
> I need to give blood if I stay on Test , because at 18 RBC or more I get anxiety etc coming


 Your iron is fine then.

How much Testosterone do you run and with what frequency? You can drop the amount and increase frequency until you don't need to donate. Don't you take like 250 mg?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you, that was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for!
> 
> When should I expect to feel anadrol?


 You will feel most orals within 1-2 weeks.


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Test Testosterone/Free Testosterone, Estradiol, Ferritin, vitamin B12, Vitamin D.
> 
> If all of those are fine, you can trial some Thyroid hormone. Your high TSH means your brain is asking for more thyroid hormone.


 Cheers elchapo

B12, ferritin and vit D are all good. I've just lowered my weekly test dose from 120mg to 90mg as my test, free test and E2 numbers were coming back way too high for TRT. Hopefully that might help then.


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> Cheers elchapo
> 
> B12, ferritin and vit D are all good. I've just lowered my weekly test dose from 120mg to 90mg as my test, free test and E2 numbers were coming back way too high for TRT. Hopefully that might help then.


 What were your numbers? Oftentimes, In range does not mean optimal or good.


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> What were your numbers? Oftentimes, In range does not mean optimal or good.


 So from the last two tests. Test one was drawn at 3 1/2 days post injection

Test 34.7 nmol (12-29)

Free test 0.82 nmol (0.2-0.62)

E2 - 155pmol (41-159)

I thought that all seemed pretty decent. I then took new bloods but at 14 hours post injection to see what the rough peak numbers looks like (and to get fasted results on other tests)

Test 89.5 nmol

Free test 3.11 nmol

E2 - 136 pmol

Also my haemocrit and haemoglobin were slightly above reference range. I've since drawn a pint of blood so should be fine there but thought I should probably lower my dose with those numbers particularly as I just want healthy TRT.

What do you think? Could this be having an impact on FSH?

Thanks for the input by the way. Very much appreciated


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Your iron is fine then.
> 
> How much Testosterone do you run and with what frequency? You can drop the amount and increase frequency until you don't need to donate. Don't you take like 250 mg?


 yes I ve been taking 250mg test C once a week , recently I switched to test P 100mg E3D


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> It takes 4-6 weeks for the levels to build up fully, technically your levels should be elevated after 2 injections though. I like to wait 4 weeks before testing a new source


 Sorry worded it wrong.

I want to know my test nmol/l is in range while on my TRT dose.

I inject on a monday, how many days post Inject should I do the test?


----------



## ElChapo

wilko1985 said:


> So from the last two tests. Test one was drawn at 3 1/2 days post injection
> 
> Test 34.7 nmol (12-29)
> 
> Free test 0.82 nmol (0.2-0.62)
> 
> E2 - 155pmol (41-159)
> 
> I thought that all seemed pretty decent. I then took new bloods but at 14 hours post injection to see what the rough peak numbers looks like (and to get fasted results on other tests)
> 
> Test 89.5 nmol
> 
> Free test 3.11 nmol
> 
> E2 - 136 pmol
> 
> Also my haemocrit and haemoglobin were slightly above reference range. I've since drawn a pint of blood so should be fine there but thought I should probably lower my dose with those numbers particularly as I just want healthy TRT.
> 
> What do you think? Could this be having an impact on FSH?
> 
> Thanks for the input by the way. Very much appreciated


 Peak numbers don't matter and you shouldn't go by them. Go by trough or mid week numbers. Your first set of total and free T looks excellent and i wouldn't change it but that's up to you.

FSH? Why do you ask about FSH? On TRT, FSH should be extremely low or undetectable.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> yes I ve been taking 250mg test C once a week , recently I switched to test P 100mg E3D


 Yeah, that would do it. (250 mg once weekly)

Test P 100 mg x 2 per week might still cause you issue. You could keep an eye on it, or switch to 75 mg x 2 per week or 50 mg x 3 per week.


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Sorry worded it wrong.
> 
> I want to know my test nmol/l is in range while on my TRT dose.
> 
> I inject on a monday, how many days post Inject should I do the test?


 Best time would be either halfway through the week or the day of injection to get the trough (lowest level) or midpoint level. Sometimes It will peak halfway through the week for some people too. Generally, it's best to inject twice weekly for best results/less side effects.


----------



## wilko1985

ElChapo said:


> Peak numbers don't matter and you shouldn't go by them. Go by trough or mid week numbers. Your first set of total and free T looks excellent and i wouldn't change it but that's up to you.
> 
> FSH? Why do you ask about FSH? On TRT, FSH should be extremely low or undetectable.


 Apologies, TSH I meant. Slip of the keyboard :thumbup1: . Cool. Back up to .2ml twice a week I go then.

Cheers elchapo


----------



## Hosi

@El Chapo

Good to see you again on this forum, I will explain my problem regards TRT and keto diet.
Currently I dose 150 mg of test e with masteron e 100 mg every 4 days, I use half tab of symex two days later if I notice high estradiol symptomps.
I train 4 times per week with myoplastic ( Ben Pollack) protocol and 4-5 times per week I have low instensity cardio -> fast walking.
To maintain caloric deflict I use keto, but without carbs I notice bad mood and some kind of depression, could it be that my serotonin level are so low that this is the reason of that? 
What I could do to confirm low serotonin and how to fix this?


----------



## feelinfine

What would be considered a performance enhancement dose of test for sports and not necessarily bodybuilding?

Would 500mg/wk be too high?


----------



## pma111

1.If someone wanted to go from 25% bf (and/or bmi - see below) to 15% on a longer term cut who had got quite fat, how long realiatically approx. would it take to lose 10% bf/bmi if through excercise and calorie control only (no drugs) they were -1000 in deficit each day? I can understand the lbs per week e.g. -7000 calorie deficit is close to 2lbs p/w but I am unsure of a global formula you can use to translate that into bf % / bmi loss as well. Or is there no 'one size fits all' formula for translating lbs lost per week/month to bf% lost per week/month?

I did see a comment that someone could 'comfortably' go from 15% to 12 % in approx 4 weeksamd they didnt appear to have supplied their weight/height, so im not sure if that is as easy to then apply that kind of speed to every person or if its starting weight in lbs / bf % starting weight specific.

2.Also wondered if 'bmi' is the same as 'bf %' in this context and whether you can calculate both based purely in weight/height or if other tools are required. E.g if you want to get from 25% bf to 15% is this the same as getting from 25% bmi to 15% bmi and the same timescales based on calorie deficit. If not is there any easy way to calculate both based purely on weight/height.

3. If losing %10 bmi is a completely different beast to losing 10% bf (in terms of lbs) how can you set a realistic timescale for losing 10% 'bmi'? How much 'bmi' % could be reduced per week/month?

(As bmi is often used in local health articles I've perhaps wrongly considered bmi to closely equal bf % and therefore to lose 10% of either would have the same general timescales - which again could be way off and the calculations person/height/starting weight specific hence why I was unsure if a 3% bf reduction in 4 weeks for one person could take 8 weeks for another etc).

4. The main thing I wanted to gauge was if a 6 foot 4 inches male put their stats into a bmi calculator and it came out at 25% bmi. And a 5 foot 2 inches female also puts their stats into a bmi calculator and it also came out at 25% bmi. To get down to 15% bmi have both got the exact same amount of lbs to lose to acheive that target or has the taller male got more lbs to lose than the smaller female? Or put another way,does 1% 'bmi' = e.g 5 lbs of fat regardless of gender/height and therefore if you need to lose 10% bmi to hit your target you have 50 lb of fat to burn, however long that takes. (Realistically 6 months/12 months etc).

And does 1% bf typically = a specific number of lbs as well hence why its easy to do a calculation on a % bf loss target in a set amount of weeks based on deficit. E.g. 1% bf point = 3 lbs.


----------



## drwae

pma111 said:


> If someone wanted to go from 25% bf to 15% on a longer term cut who had got quite fat, how long realiatically approx. would it take to lose 10% bf if they through excercise and calorie control were -1000 in deficit each day? I can understand the lbs per week e.g. -7000 deficit is close to 2lbs but I am unsure of a global formula you can use to translate that into bf % loss as well.
> 
> I did see a comment that someone could go from 15% to 12 % in approx 4 weeks but im not sure it that is as easy to then apply that kind of speed to every person or if its starting weight / bf % starting weight specific.


 12 weeks

Have done it myself


----------



## pma111

drwae said:


> 12 weeks
> 
> Have done it myself


 Thanks was that at 2 lb per week loss approx. Its always confused me how to do the lbs loss to bf % loss comparison, and whether its a global thing that can be applied to any gender/age/height/starting weight etc.


----------



## drwae

pma111 said:


> Thanks was that at 2 lb per week loss approx. Its always confused me how to do the lbs loss to bf % loss comparison, and whether its a global thing that can be applied to any gender/age/height/starting weight etc.


 Can't really say much about the weight loss as I was taking steroids and lost a fair amount of fat with an increase in body weight.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo been taking 12.5mcg T3 for 2 months now , felt good but starting to sweat a little too much.

I know T3 supplementation is accumulative , should I just drop it or take E0D? 2-3 weeks ago I was at top normal range of T3 on my blood work and I wasn't sweating that much


----------



## zariph

Do you recommend donating blood regularly like every 12 weeks when using AAS, both on blast or high trt.

I dont know if it will be counterproductive if one is running test,deca, anadrol because one of the benefits of anadrol is increased RBC? But on the other hand, im quite sure my HCT will be out of range if not donating blood? Whats your opinion?


----------



## Jaybird

@ElChapo

Firstly, I just want to thank you for taking the time out to share your wealth of knowledge here, I really appreciate it and have loved reading through this entire thread. Its has been hugely educational and I appreciate the way you have a knack of simplifying things (which IMO is always a sign of someone who genuinely knows what they're talking about).

I apologise if these have been asked before but for the sake of clarification....

1) I don't have a whole lot of experience with experimenting with various AAS compounds, namely just Test, Deca and Anavar (although I've been on TRT for several years and am fairly clued up on getting bloods done...etc.)

I love Anavar but I have never run it more than 6 weeks at a time as I was under the assumption orals should only been run for 6 weeks due to their hepatoxicity.

At 50-100mg, how long do you think would be a good run for? I understand the main impact it has is on lipids more so than liver (TUDCA and NAC should hopefully lessen that slightly). Superdrol is another oral I'm intrigued by but not sure how toxic that is in comparison to var or what dose.

2) What is your opinion on DIM as a mild Aromatise Inhibitor? Does it actually do anything?

3) Arimidex vs Aromasin - whats your opinion on Aromasin being "better for lipids"? is this just something that has been regurgitated or is there some truth the idea that aromasin affects lipids less so than Arimidex? Its typically a lot more expensive and I've always used it but not sure if there is a big difference?

4) Apart from regular cardiovascular exercise and keeping blood pressure in check - would you say there are any supplements actually worth taking to help mitigate the potential damage on cycle? There seem to be a flux in supplement companies now promoting and selling cycle/health support supplements - citrus bergamot, astragalus, liver support...etc. I know you've suggested TUDCA and NAC when running orals, but is there anything else actually worthwhile? Im talking more specifically things to help ON cycle, not things you'd use year around like fish oils, multi vitamins..etc.

Im not sure if a lot of these products do much or whether they give people a false sense of security to up the dose lol

Thank you again


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Good to see you again on this forum, I will explain my problem regards TRT and keto diet.
> Currently I dose 150 mg of test e with masteron e 100 mg every 4 days, I use half tab of symex two days later if I notice high estradiol symptomps.
> I train 4 times per week with myoplastic ( Ben Pollack) protocol and 4-5 times per week I have low instensity cardio -> fast walking.
> To maintain caloric deflict I use keto, but without carbs I notice bad mood and some kind of depression, could it be that my serotonin level are so low that this is the reason of that?
> What I could do to confirm low serotonin and how to fix this?


 Correct, keto and low carb are horrible for mood/wellbeing and performance. There is no benefit to keto. Add some carbs, focus on your calories, that is where your fat loss will come from (Caloric deficit). This is why i hate keto/low carb. Bad mood, higher stress, lower libido, poor performance in the gym and bedroom with no true benefit for fat loss. You are correct, it's because it causes lower serotonin levels (less tryptophan which is a precursor to serotonin) and higher cortisol levels (Stress hormones).

What do you do? Add carbs back in and throw the keto/low carb diet into the trash bin. 150-200 g carbs per day is usually enough to get you into the optimal zone but it depends on your weight, muscularity, activity levels, etc. Once you add carbs back in, you are going to feel brand new.

What is symex? Some anti-estrogen supplement?


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> What would be considered a performance enhancement dose of test for sports and not necessarily bodybuilding?
> 
> Would 500mg/wk be too high?


 Depends on the sport. For something like boxing/MMA, going over 200-300 mg can slow you down, cut back cardiovascular endurance, etc. For endurance sports like cycling/long distance running 100-150 mg per week is usually the limit. For most sports 500 mg may be too high but again it depends. For American Football, you can get away with +500 mg because it's anaerobic and you get a lot of breaks between bursts of power, but try that for cycling/soccer and you may not have as good a time.

You need to remember, what is the "performance" that you are seeking? Is it recovery/endurance? Or strength/Power? Every sport has different demands. With AAS, there is a point where you get diminishing returns for recovery/endurance.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> 1.If someone wanted to go from 25% bf (and/or bmi - see below) to 15% on a longer term cut who had got quite fat, how long realiatically approx. would it take to lose 10% bf/bmi if through excercise and calorie control only (no drugs) they were -1000 in deficit each day? I can understand the lbs per week e.g. -7000 calorie deficit is close to 2lbs p/w but I am unsure of a global formula you can use to translate that into bf % / bmi loss as well. Or is there no 'one size fits all' formula for translating lbs lost per week/month to bf% lost per week/month?
> 
> I did see a comment that someone could 'comfortably' go from 15% to 12 % in approx 4 weeksamd they didnt appear to have supplied their weight/height, so im not sure if that is as easy to then apply that kind of speed to every person or if its starting weight in lbs / bf % starting weight specific.
> 
> 2.Also wondered if 'bmi' is the same as 'bf %' in this context and whether you can calculate both based purely in weight/height or if other tools are required. E.g if you want to get from 25% bf to 15% is this the same as getting from 25% bmi to 15% bmi and the same timescales based on calorie deficit. If not is there any easy way to calculate both based purely on weight/height.
> 
> 3. If losing %10 bmi is a completely different beast to losing 10% bf (in terms of lbs) how can you set a realistic timescale for losing 10% 'bmi'? How much 'bmi' % could be reduced per week/month?
> 
> (As bmi is often used in local health articles I've perhaps wrongly considered bmi to closely equal bf % and therefore to lose 10% of either would have the same general timescales - which again could be way off and the calculations person/height/starting weight specific hence why I was unsure if a 3% bf reduction in 4 weeks for one person could take 8 weeks for another etc).
> 
> 4. The main thing I wanted to gauge was if a 6 foot 4 inches male put their stats into a bmi calculator and it came out at 25% bmi. And a 5 foot 2 inches female also puts their stats into a bmi calculator and it also came out at 25% bmi. To get down to 15% bmi have both got the exact same amount of lbs to lose to acheive that target or has the taller male got more lbs to lose than the smaller female? Or put another way,does 1% 'bmi' = e.g 5 lbs of fat regardless of gender/height and therefore if you need to lose 10% bmi to hit your target you have 50 lb of fat to burn, however long that takes. (Realistically 6 months/12 months etc).
> 
> And does 1% bf typically = a specific number of lbs as well hence why its easy to do a calculation on a % bf loss target in a set amount of weeks based on deficit. E.g. 1% bf point = 3 lbs.


 Might take around 4-6 months depending on your consistency with calories. You can expect to lose about 2 lbs of fat per week when you are higher body fat, as you get leaner that will likely get closer to 1lbs of fat per week.

BMI and BF% are completely different. BMI only takes into account weight and height, it is a very crappy way of measuring "health". A man with lots of muscle and low body fat will have a high BMI and be considered "obese". Don't even LOOK at BMI. It is 100% useless.

Stop looking at BMI. Body fat % is the gold standard. You could look like a greek god or a fat piece of s**t at the same exact BMI but body fat % is more consistent.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo been taking 12.5mcg T3 for 2 months now , felt good but starting to sweat a little too much.
> 
> I know T3 supplementation is accumulative , should I just drop it or take E0D? 2-3 weeks ago I was at top normal range of T3 on my blood work and I wasn't sweating that much


 That's gene expression for you, the longer you run a hormone, the more it starts to work at a genetic expression level which is why AAS takes week to kick in even though levels are higher right away.

You could try running 6 mcg long term, that might be your sweet spot.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Do you recommend donating blood regularly like every 12 weeks when using AAS, both on blast or high trt.
> 
> I dont know if it will be counterproductive if one is running test,deca, anadrol because one of the benefits of anadrol is increased RBC? But on the other hand, im quite sure my HCT will be out of range if not donating blood? Whats your opinion?


 Not at all. This is a good way of depleting your iron/ferritin stores and ending up anemic which will make you tired and can affect your brain function and mood.

Some people don't get elevated HCT and i would not be concerned unless you are over 53%. The best solution is to tackle the cause of the elevated HCT. Oftentimes it's undiagnosed sleep apnea. If you are on the higher body fat side or snore when you sleep, those can be some unofficial indicators that you may have sleep apnea. Fat loss can sometimes reverse it completely or using a bipap machine during your sleep. Lowering AAS/TRT dosage and increasing injection frequency can also help.

Only way to know is to get lab work, never guess in this game because you can end up fu**ing yourself up worse (guessing E2/HCT levels for example and treating when you don't need to)


----------



## feelinfine

ElChapo said:


> Depends on the sport. For something like boxing/MMA, going over 200-300 mg can slow you down, cut back cardiovascular endurance, etc. For endurance sports like cycling/long distance running 100-150 mg per week is usually the limit. For most sports 500 mg may be too high but again it depends. For American Football, you can get away with +500 mg because it's anaerobic and you get a lot of breaks between bursts of power, but try that for cycling/soccer and you may not have as good a time.
> 
> You need to remember, what is the "performance" that you are seeking? Is it recovery/endurance? Or strength/Power? Every sport has different demands. With AAS, there is a point where you get diminishing returns for recovery/endurance.


 Good point. I am not heavily into weightlifting as before. Once gyms open back up I will still lift just to stay in shape but will not focus on bodybuilding.

I play tennis semi-competitively. Most people consider it an endurance sport but in reality you are just doing quick, explosive sprints broken up by frequent breaks. Mainly looking for recuperative benefits because long matches day after day wears down your legs. I have found that I lose a lot of speed and ability to chase down the ball if I play too many matches in a week.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> Good point. I am not heavily into weightlifting as before. Once gyms open back up I will still lift just to stay in shape but will not focus on bodybuilding.
> 
> I play tennis semi-competitively. Most people consider it an endurance sport but in reality you are just doing quick, explosive sprints broken up by frequent breaks. Mainly looking for recuperative benefits because long matches day after day wears down your legs. I have found that I lose a lot of speed and ability to chase down the ball if I play too many matches in a week.


 I'm not a tennis guy but i would assume anything over 200 mg may affect your performance negatively. Remember, young guys have great recovery and their testosterone levels are generally 700-900 ng/dL and they have high IGF/HGH levels as well. Your best bet is likely to get your testosterone into the top of the natural range.


----------



## Kahen

@ElChapo I'm currently taking 300mg Test E, 400mg Tren E a week & 50mg Anadrol daily.

I've had bloods taken and hematocrits come back at 0.55 and RBC 18.7. I've already stopped the anadrol and will be stopping the tren as well. Should I go down to a trt dose of test or should I come off everything? I've booked in to donate blood today.

I also had an ECG done after experiencing palpitations which came back with abnormal P waves. I met with my GP but he seemed more concerned about my bloods than my ECG readings? I was advised to get an echocardiogram but my GP shot that idea down pretty fast.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo

would a 1/2 inch insulin syringe/needle be long enough to use in the glutes with about 10/12% bodyfat ? I'm only really comfortable pinning Delts and glutes and like to rotate sites as much as possible. I may consider lats if the needle is too short for the glutes. Thanks.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Using 81mg aspirin to reduce high RBC symptoms ?

I've already used it for like 1 month , but I know it can give stomach bleed and even rarely brain bleed.

I'm sure using it even that low dose for a long time isnt healthy , but I also read that in rats it decrease RBC production by the bone marrow by decreasing an hormone I don't remember the name .

So my main question is : would aspirin help on short/mid term for high hematocrit on 200-250mg test ? I do donate blood every 2 months but it gets back to 53% and 18 really fast .

I lowered my test dosage to 60mg test P E3D yesterday , and will do that now .

Also , would 6mcg T3 increase RBC production ?


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo Any way to eliminate puffy nippes on 125 test e 210 tren ace? No hard lumps or soreness, just noticeable and insecure. Skin around nipples looks like a lighter shade too so it stands out a lot when tan which is weird


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Having hight RBC and hematocrit , and low ferritin levels. is it bad having low ferritin levels even if RBC is high ?


----------



## pma111

I noticed in an earlier post near the start of the thread that you mentioned pine bark and aspirin are perhaps quite similar /related drugs in some ways. Is that because they both act to an extent as blood thinners and are the effects on blood thinning between the two comparative? I've never quite understood why aspirin is useful part or some peoples heart health stacks but notice you recommend pine bark as a core staple in a heart health stack.

I also wanted to understand better if say you had gi bleeding say from an ulcer why blood thinning herbs or medications is very dangerous?


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> You could try to donate, i would check ferritin first because one donation can drop your ferritin 40-60 points and you can easily end up anemic which can lead to fatigue and even mood/cognitive disturbances. Regular donation will likely pull you down to 180. Do you have HCT/Hematocrit value? Do you drink a lot of water? If you are even a little dehydrated, your hemoglobin will come out higher than it really is. You want your piss clear or light yellow the day before and day of blood test.


 What's the shortest safe period of time between each donation mate? I'm told I've got to wait 16 weeks

I don't have HCT to hand, but it was in range. I drink at least 3 litres of water a day

Do you recommend 75mg aspirin a day till I get levels down


----------



## ElChapo

Kahen said:


> @ElChapo I'm currently taking 300mg Test E, 400mg Tren E a week & 50mg Anadrol daily.
> 
> I've had bloods taken and hematocrits come back at 0.55 and RBC 18.7. I've already stopped the anadrol and will be stopping the tren as well. Should I go down to a trt dose of test or should I come off everything? I've booked in to donate blood today.
> 
> I also had an ECG done after experiencing palpitations which came back with abnormal P waves. I met with my GP but he seemed more concerned about my bloods than my ECG readings? I was advised to get an echocardiogram but my GP shot that idea down pretty fast.


 Make sure to check ferritin. Blood donation will dump a ton of ferritin and can make you anemic if you are not careful. AAS can cause abnormal heart rhythm. Echocardiogram is one of the best ways to actually look at the heart and blood vessels for structural changes, damage and function. ECG doesn't tell you too much.

How long were you on that stack of AAS? How many years have you used AAS? Do you own a blood pressure monitor? Do you smoke?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> would a 1/2 inch insulin syringe/needle be long enough to use in the glutes with about 10/12% bodyfat ? I'm only really comfortable pinning Delts and glutes and like to rotate sites as much as possible. I may consider lats if the needle is too short for the glutes. Thanks.


 For ventroglutes (not gluteus maximus), probably. Some people hold more fat in their glutes, but most of the time it should reach into the muscle. Just do ventroglute+deltoids. That's 4 sites you can rotate. I would do pecs before i do lats. I prefer quadriceps, upper right quadrant, but delts and ventros are ideal sites for multiple reasons (easy to reach, low volume of nerves/blood vessels,etc)


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Using 81mg aspirin to reduce high RBC symptoms ?
> 
> I've already used it for like 1 month , but I know it can give stomach bleed and even rarely brain bleed.
> 
> I'm sure using it even that low dose for a long time isnt healthy , but I also read that in rats it decrease RBC production by the bone marrow by decreasing an hormone I don't remember the name .
> 
> So my main question is : would aspirin help on short/mid term for high hematocrit on 200-250mg test ? I do donate blood every 2 months but it gets back to 53% and 18 really fast .
> 
> I lowered my test dosage to 60mg test P E3D yesterday , and will do that now .
> 
> Also , would 6mcg T3 increase RBC production ?


 Probably won't work. Aspirin may reduce the "stickyness" of blood cells, but it does not "thin the blood" that's a misnomer. There is no such thing as a blood thinner, they are anti-coagulants.

Aspirin might lower the risk of blood clots. If you keep running into high HCT levels with TRT dose test, you should get a sleep study done to rule out sleep apnea. If you have sleep apnea, you have two options 1. Get very lean; i have this work in many people. Getting to under 12% body has reverse the apnea in some people and it's a natural remedy. 2. If you have sleep apnea, use bipap machine which will pump air into your lungs while you sleep like darth vader. The problem is you go hypoxic during sleep, so your body ramps up RBC production to compensate.

6 mcg T3 should have zero effect on RBC. Even hyperthyroidism isn't usually associated with high RBC. 60 mg E3D should do the job for you and some fat loss.


----------



## Youdontknowme

ElChapo said:


> For ventroglutes (not gluteus maximus), probably. Some people hold more fat in their glutes, but most of the time it should reach into the muscle. Just do ventroglute+deltoids. That's 4 sites you can rotate. I would do pecs before i do lats. I prefer quadriceps, upper right quadrant, but delts and ventros are ideal sites for multiple reasons (easy to reach, low volume of nerves/blood vessels,etc)


 Is there a decent video/picture of the ventro site? Seen it mentioned loads but can't work out where it is!


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo Any way to eliminate puffy nippes on 125 test e 210 tren ace? No hard lumps or soreness, just noticeable and insecure. Skin around nipples looks like a lighter shade too so it stands out a lot when tan which is weird


 Generally, no. Some people are susceptible to that and you will see it in some athletes and bodybuilders even when contest/competition lean. I would consider switching off tren and trying winstrol. It will have a similar effect to tren without the gyno/puffyness. I find it more effective than trenbolone in fact.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Having hight RBC and hematocrit , and low ferritin levels. is it bad having low ferritin levels even if RBC is high ?


 That's always very tricky. With low ferritin, your high RBC will still have trouble transporting oxygen. How high is the RBC and how low is the ferritin?


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> Generally, no. Some people are susceptible to that and you will see it in some athletes and bodybuilders even when contest/competition lean. I would consider switching off tren and trying winstrol. It will have a similar effect to tren without the gyno/puffyness. I find it more effective than trenbolone in fact.


 Thanks. Yes I've since come off but it's only been a few days. I've a bit of gyno from it now which I usually always get when running 19 nors. Will this subside when tren clears my system or will i need a month on nolva again?


----------



## ElChapo

Youdontknowme said:


> Is there a decent video/picture of the ventro site? Seen it mentioned loads but can't work out where it is!


 https://trthub.com/ventrogluteal-glute-injection/


----------



## ElChapo

Jaybird said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Firstly, I just want to thank you for taking the time out to share your wealth of knowledge here, I really appreciate it and have loved reading through this entire thread. Its has been hugely educational and I appreciate the way you have a knack of simplifying things (which IMO is always a sign of someone who genuinely knows what they're talking about).
> 
> I apologise if these have been asked before but for the sake of clarification....
> 
> 1) I don't have a whole lot of experience with experimenting with various AAS compounds, namely just Test, Deca and Anavar (although I've been on TRT for several years and am fairly clued up on getting bloods done...etc.)
> 
> I love Anavar but I have never run it more than 6 weeks at a time as I was under the assumption orals should only been run for 6 weeks due to their hepatoxicity.
> 
> At 50-100mg, how long do you think would be a good run for? I understand the main impact it has is on lipids more so than liver (TUDCA and NAC should hopefully lessen that slightly). Superdrol is another oral I'm intrigued by but not sure how toxic that is in comparison to var or what dose.
> 
> 2) What is your opinion on DIM as a mild Aromatise Inhibitor? Does it actually do anything?
> 
> 3) Arimidex vs Aromasin - whats your opinion on Aromasin being "better for lipids"? is this just something that has been regurgitated or is there some truth the idea that aromasin affects lipids less so than Arimidex? Its typically a lot more expensive and I've always used it but not sure if there is a big difference?
> 
> 4) Apart from regular cardiovascular exercise and keeping blood pressure in check - would you say there are any supplements actually worth taking to help mitigate the potential damage on cycle? There seem to be a flux in supplement companies now promoting and selling cycle/health support supplements - citrus bergamot, astragalus, liver support...etc. I know you've suggested TUDCA and NAC when running orals, but is there anything else actually worthwhile? Im talking more specifically things to help ON cycle, not things you'd use year around like fish oils, multi vitamins..etc.
> 
> Im not sure if a lot of these products do much or whether they give people a false sense of security to up the dose lol
> 
> Thank you again


 1. Anavar is the safest, most mild oral AAS used for bodybuilding that there is. People take it year round for HIV induced cachexia, healing from burns and wounds. I generally recommend 8-12 weeks of oral AAS for intermediate/advanced AND responsible body builders/athletes who really want to see how powerful these compounds really are. TUDCA/NAC is a complete game changer which negates the direct mechanism by which oral AAS cause liver toxicity. Mainly TUDCA keeps bile flow healthy which prevents cholestasis (impaired bile flow) and NAC bolsters the liver's endogenous anti-oxidant capacity, further increasing it's resistance to damage. NAC is so potent it's use as prescription drug as an antidote for tylenol overdosing in hospitals (Known as Mucomyst).

2. DIM is a poor AI. What it might do is increase the metabolism of estradiol into estrones. Estrone is actually an estrogen that is x 10 weaker than estradiol. Do not use DIM as an AI. It may have some benefit for breast cancer prevention though in women. Note that most men do not need AI and many will find that mood, performance and sex drive are better without AI up until a certain point. High normal and high E2 is generally linked to better libido and mood, but some people do feel best with lower estradiol levels.

3. Doesn't make a huge difference, like i said, most people are better off not using AI until absolutely needed and then only very carefully in as low a dose as possible. Nolvadex/Raloxifene is another game changer. Gone are the days of panic when some gyno formed, now you have two compounds proven to completely reverse gynecomastia in almost 90% of cases. I would lean towards arimidex, easier to find, cheaper, effective and easier to dose.

4. Stay lean, do regular cardio, keep stress levels low, get good sleep, stay hydrated, enjoy life. Take a multivitamin to cover any deficiencies, do not smoke, drink in moderation. Those are the best supplements. If you want something strong that works, pycnogenol 100-200 mg is very good for circulation, brain/skin health etc. It's really good.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> That's always very tricky. With low ferritin, your high RBC will still have trouble transporting oxygen. How high is the RBC and how low is the ferritin?


 3 weeks ago , I had 18 RBC and 60 ferritin , I gave blood just after the blood test. My RBC must have went down to 16.5-17 and ferritin to 0-20 ?

But I already feel the symptoms of high RBC since some days , so I guess it's at 17.5-18 already.

Been taking green tea with each meals , stopped vitamin C. been taking naringin and grapefruit seed extract since 2 years now everyday. also eating every 2 days grapefruit .

I may be at 200mg test , or 250 max but it seems my RBC gets higher faster on test P , that s the only thing I changed recently and also taking low dose T3


----------



## Youdontknowme

ElChapo said:


> https://trthub.com/ventrogluteal-glute-injection/


 Ta!


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Probably won't work. Aspirin may reduce the "stickyness" of blood cells, but it does not "thin the blood" that's a misnomer. There is no such thing as a blood thinner, they are anti-coagulants.
> 
> Aspirin might lower the risk of blood clots. If you keep running into high HCT levels with TRT dose test, you should get a sleep study done to rule out sleep apnea. If you have sleep apnea, you have two options 1. Get very lean; i have this work in many people. Getting to under 12% body has reverse the apnea in some people and it's a natural remedy. 2. If you have sleep apnea, use bipap machine which will pump air into your lungs while you sleep like darth vader. The problem is you go hypoxic during sleep, so your body ramps up RBC production to compensate.
> 
> 6 mcg T3 should have zero effect on RBC. Even hyperthyroidism isn't usually associated with high RBC. 60 mg E3D should do the job for you and some fat loss.


 Thank you . I stopped aspirin today anyway.

I'm at 8.5% BF atm , may not be 100% correct but I'm at 10% max and still on a small deficit and a lot of cardio.

I really don't think I have sleep apnea , I don't even snore or rarely.

I know it's from the test that my RBC is increasing and it's quite annoying because I m not even blasting , just using small doses and donate every 2 months.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> I noticed in an earlier post near the start of the thread that you mentioned pine bark and aspirin are perhaps quite similar /related drugs in some ways. Is that because they both act to an extent as blood thinners and are the effects on blood thinning between the two comparative? I've never quite understood why aspirin is useful part or some peoples heart health stacks but notice you recommend pine bark as a core staple in a heart health stack.
> 
> I also wanted to understand better if say you had gi bleeding say from an ulcer why blood thinning herbs or medications is very dangerous?


 They are both derived from components of tree bark. Aspirin aka salicylic acid was derived from tree bark and then synthesized in the lab. Pycnogenol does have anti-coagulant/fibronolytic properties.

If you have GI bleeding and you Aspirin, you will bleed even more because it reduces clotting. Patient on anticoagulants have to be closely monitored for these issues.


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> What's the shortest safe period of time between each donation mate? I'm told I've got to wait 16 weeks
> 
> I don't have HCT to hand, but it was in range. I drink at least 3 litres of water a day
> 
> Do you recommend 75mg aspirin a day till I get levels down


 Depends on many factors, like how high your baseline HCT/HGB was and how high/low your ferritin.

In range tells me nothing at all. I need a number. In range can be very low or very high.

Aspirin will not significantly reduce HCT levels. It may only reduce the risk of blood clotting.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Thanks. Yes I've since come off but it's only been a few days. I've a bit of gyno from it now which I usually always get when running 19 nors. Will this subside when tren clears my system or will i need a month on nolva again?


 For some people, it goes away on it's own. I would not use tren if i were you. You are one of the sensitive people (like myself). There are better AAS like winstrol/superdrol, don't think "you need tren" like internet would have you believe.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> 3 weeks ago , I had 18 RBC and 60 ferritin , I gave blood just after the blood test. My RBC must have went down to 16.5-17 and ferritin to 0-20 ?
> 
> But I already feel the symptoms of high RBC since some days , so I guess it's at 17.5-18 already.
> 
> Been taking green tea with each meals , stopped vitamin C. been taking naringin and grapefruit seed extract since 2 years now everyday. also eating every 2 days grapefruit .
> 
> I may be at 200mg test , or 250 max but it seems my RBC gets higher faster on test P , that s the only thing I changed recently and also taking low dose T3


 Bro, you gotta nip it in the bud because you are going to be running in circles if you don't. You did good reducing your overall dose. Your ferritin is probably anemic range, so you should supplement heavy iron. You are taking 2 steps forward and 4 steps back right now. Get the sleep study.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Bro, you gotta nip it in the bud because you are going to be running in circles if you don't. You did good reducing your overall dose. Your ferritin is probably anemic range, so you should supplement heavy iron. You are taking 2 steps forward and 4 steps back right now. Get the sleep study.


 Ok I'll stop the green tea each meal first , and supplement iron. I hope RBC/htc won't get too high this way but let's try.

For the sleep test I'm going to research


----------



## Kahen

ElChapo said:


> Make sure to check ferritin. Blood donation will dump a ton of ferritin and can make you anemic if you are not careful. AAS can cause abnormal heart rhythm. Echocardiogram is one of the best ways to actually look at the heart and blood vessels for structural changes, damage and function. ECG doesn't tell you too much.
> 
> How long were you on that stack of AAS? How many years have you used AAS? Do you own a blood pressure monitor? Do you smoke?


 Thank you for the response.

My GP didn't tell me the ferritin levels but I should have asked really. I'll get my own test done soon. I'm definitely going to discuss the echocardiogram with my GP as he wants me to go back for more bloods in 4 weeks.

As for usage, I was on that stack for 6 weeks before the complications, before that was cruising 3 months of test e at 150mg/week. Being using on and off for 5 years but have been doing B&C the last 2. Never smoked. I have own BP monitor which I check daily, around 120 - 130 systolic, 60 - 70 diastolic. Resting pulse around 70.


----------



## zariph

Whats your view on all these labtests from janoshik, lab4tox, chemtox etc? Are they trustworthy? It seems like almost every UGL they test is dosed on point a little overdosed.

Which powerlifting coaches would you suggest? Doesnt have to be in the UK. Do you even think a coach is worth it?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Having high B12 but low folates , I'm sure it s linked to my body producing too much RBC from AAS use.

Should I supplement with folates ?


----------



## pma111

Do you think low iron anemia could play any role in ED?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo ok I've read and watched videos about ferritin , CBC , on TRT and steroids.

I've learnt a lot and yes having low ferritin levels like I have now from donation 3 times in 6 months was a bad idea.

Now I know why I m losing a lot of hairs too , more than before.

I also have blurry vision , may be from too low ferritin or too high RBC.

I started eating more red meat and taking iron with vitamin C AND folates ( I was deficient )to increase ferritin levels , But I have some questions : It should increase even more my RBC production , right ?

Since a week my anxiety got back up , and I can't seem to concentrate and with the blurry vision too.. I've got the same feeling when my RBC is too high but atm I don't think it's more than 18 ; so could it be from Ferritin deficiency ? I guess it is even though the day I donated blood and the days after I felt so good .

Im doing the sleep apnea test soon , but normaly I don't have it but to be sure


----------



## JBlast

Sorry @ElChapo, Asking for a friend,

His face bloats up real bad so easy, he has to stay at 8% or his cheeks gets round like a watermelon..

I think the bloat is a combination of water and glycogen retention (basically your face muscles gets bigger cuz of glycogen and water)

He tried;
-superdrol: slight bloat from glycogen
-tren: bloats him
-Masteron: no effect
-Proviron: no effect
-NPP: didnt bloat much but He was on letro and mast

Honestly what steroids make you dry without causing glycogen retention?
I want something that builds muscle without any glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin. I guess DHT compounds are best for this.

Stuff for cycle without bloating:

-200/300mg test prop
-50-100mg winstrol ED
-50mg Anavar ED
-50-100mg proviron ED
-600-800mg masteron enanthate

& maybe staying on some safe diuretic?. Anyone got experience with this?

Would that build decent muscle mass while keeping the body dry like a desert.


----------



## ElChapo

Kahen said:


> Thank you for the response.
> 
> My GP didn't tell me the ferritin levels but I should have asked really. I'll get my own test done soon. I'm definitely going to discuss the echocardiogram with my GP as he wants me to go back for more bloods in 4 weeks.
> 
> As for usage, I was on that stack for 6 weeks before the complications, before that was cruising 3 months of test e at 150mg/week. Being using on and off for 5 years but have been doing B&C the last 2. Never smoked. I have own BP monitor which I check daily, around 120 - 130 systolic, 60 - 70 diastolic. Resting pulse around 70.


 Have you done heavy or extended cycles in the past? Any family history of heart disease? and what is your approximate body fat %?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Whats your view on all these labtests from janoshik, lab4tox, chemtox etc? Are they trustworthy? It seems like almost every UGL they test is dosed on point a little overdosed.
> 
> Which powerlifting coaches would you suggest? Doesnt have to be in the UK. Do you even think a coach is worth it?


 I do not trust janoshik tests. He was caught defrauding a client. The client sent a pack that was seized in customs and never received by Janoshik, yet Janoshik sent him fake lab results. The client got his vials back unopened and Jano was exposed as a fraud. Even before this incident i did not trust his work. That confirmed my suspicion, just my 2 cents. I don't know about the other guys.

I love anyone who focuses on the fundamentals and has walked the walk. I love Ed Coan, Mike O'Hearn is good too. They stick to the basics, no fancy s**t, and they have the results to prove it. As for coach being worth it, depends on how far you want to go (if you compete) and how good you are at self-teaching . Many people get far without a coach, but many others benefit from a coach for direction, correcting mistakes/form, etc. If you are just a recreational lifter, i wouldn't bother with a coach myself, but that's just me.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Having high B12 but low folates , I'm sure it s linked to my body producing too much RBC from AAS use.
> 
> Should I supplement with folates ?


 B12 and folic acid are two different vitamins. I don't believe there is any connection with your high RBC. Yes, if you take a good multivitamin, your folate levels should increase. Were you taking B12 injections in the past?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Do you think low iron anemia could play any role in ED?


 Yes, it possibly can. Low iron is linked to possible dopamine dysfunction which is directly related to libido/erections. Also, the fatigue from low iron would also interfere with libido/erections, and low iron means less oxygen/poorer circulation of oxygen to cells. Low iron/ferritin is an underestimated issue that can really impair quality of life, both physically and mentally.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo ok I've read and watched videos about ferritin , CBC , on TRT and steroids.
> 
> I've learnt a lot and yes having low ferritin levels like I have now from donation 3 times in 6 months was a bad idea.
> 
> Now I know why I m losing a lot of hairs too , more than before.
> 
> I also have blurry vision , may be from too low ferritin or too high RBC.
> 
> I started eating more red meat and taking iron with vitamin C AND folates ( I was deficient )to increase ferritin levels , But I have some questions : It should increase even more my RBC production , right ?
> 
> Since a week my anxiety got back up , and I can't seem to concentrate and with the blurry vision too.. I've got the same feeling when my RBC is too high but atm I don't think it's more than 18 ; so could it be from Ferritin deficiency ? I guess it is even though the day I donated blood and the days after I felt so good .
> 
> Im doing the sleep apnea test soon , but normaly I don't have it but to be sure


 Yep, low iron/ferritin can cause hair thinning.

Eating iron won't automatically translate to making more RBC. Just keep an eye on it, you have no choice regardless unless you want to stay anemic.

Anxiety and brain fog are both possible symptoms of iron deficiency anemia, yes. It may or may not be related. You can't tell if you have sleep apnea unless you have a test.


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Sorry @ElChapo, Asking for a friend,
> 
> His face bloats up real bad so easy, he has to stay at 8% or his cheeks gets round like a watermelon..
> 
> I think the bloat is a combination of water and glycogen retention (basically your face muscles gets bigger cuz of glycogen and water)
> 
> He tried;
> -superdrol: slight bloat from glycogen
> -tren: bloats him
> -Masteron: no effect
> -Proviron: no effect
> -NPP: didnt bloat much but He was on letro and mast
> 
> Honestly what steroids make you dry without causing glycogen retention?
> I want something that builds muscle without any glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin. I guess DHT compounds are best for this.
> 
> Stuff for cycle without bloating:
> 
> -200/300mg test prop
> -50-100mg winstrol ED
> -50mg Anavar ED
> -50-100mg proviron ED
> -600-800mg masteron enanthate
> 
> & maybe staying on some safe diuretic?. Anyone got experience with this?
> 
> Would that build decent muscle mass while keeping the body dry like a desert.


 Stick to testosterone propionate. I also get bloated face from trenbolone and test E. Tell him to try Test P and he should have good results. Also tell him to make sure he is well hydrated. Urine should be clear or light yellow. The best stack to stay dry/lean with no bloat is Test P and Winstrol.

That cycle should work but you should know that masteron doesn't do much, so you won't get much out of that 600-800 mg. Same with the proviron.

I would probably do 600-1 g mg Test P per week+100 mg Winstrol daily with TUDCA/NAC. Simple, cheap and very strong/effective. Winstrol doesn't just not cause bloat, it will actually suck it out of you too. Then he can cruise on Test P only 200-300 mg or whatever he needs to maintain his gains unless he does a PCT.

I would not go as far as taking a diuretic unless you are doing it for competition day and know what you are doing.


----------



## JBlast

ElChapo said:


> Stick to testosterone propionate. I also get bloated face from trenbolone and test E. Tell him to try Test P and he should have good results. Also tell him to make sure he is well hydrated. Urine should be clear or light yellow. The best stack to stay dry/lean with no bloat is Test P and Winstrol.
> 
> That cycle should work but you should know that masteron doesn't do much, so you won't get much out of that 600-800 mg. Same with the proviron.
> 
> I would probably do 600-1 g mg Test P per week+100 mg Winstrol daily with TUDCA/NAC. Simple, cheap and very strong/effective. Winstrol doesn't just not cause bloat, it will actually suck it out of you too. Then he can cruise on Test P only 200-300 mg or whatever he needs to maintain his gains unless he does a PCT.
> 
> I would not go as far as taking a diuretic unless you are doing it for competition day and know what you are doing.


 Thanks, just curious,

1) do you think injectable mtren would be good? No Injectable Superdrol for the glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin

2) What do you think as far as using masteron to balance e2:dht ratio so you can avoid an ai? Broderick Chavez also suggests to use high doses of masteron as main anabolic, paired with test, do you think that a dumb idea?

3) By only using about 700mg of test p and 700mg of winstrol per week, which level of muscle mass can you reach? That's basically 'only' 1.4 grams of total gear. Which aas would you add to increase the total dosage, always considering the bloating thing. Now maybe is it worth considering adding masteron?

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

JBlast said:


> Thanks, just curious,
> 
> 1) do you think injectable mtren would be good? No Injectable Superdrol for the glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin
> 
> 2) What do you think as far as using masteron to balance e2:dht ratio so you can avoid an ai? Broderick Chavez also suggests to use high doses of masteron as main anabolic, paired with test, do you think that a dumb idea?
> 
> 3) By only using about 700mg of test p and 700mg of winstrol per week, which level of muscle mass can you reach? That's basically 'only' 1.4 grams of total gear. Which aas would you add to increase the total dosage, always considering the bloating thing. Now maybe is it worth considering adding masteron?
> 
> thanks


 1. Not enough data/experience with Mtren in people. You could experiment, but if you want results, that's not the best time to be experimenting.

2. It works for some people, i would just use a small dose of AI like Adex, 0.5-1 mg per week usually does the trick on medium dose of testosterone. Masteron is a poor anabolic compared to testosterone/tren/deca/winstrol/etc. It's a bad idea in my opinion.

3. Depends almost completely on genetics, and that's if you are eating, training and recovering properly. You should be able to build a ton of mass on that, but if you want freak level mass like a pro bodybuilder, many can't do it without insulin/GH.

Again, it's a question of mass/gains vs aesthetics. The proper approach would be to build up the mass with any AAS you need even if you bloat, then cruise and cut on the dry compounds. You could do 700/700/350-500 tren or npp. Again, from a mass gaining perspective, masteron is mild at best.


----------



## pma111

Would you say cardio excercise in itself would class as an 'antioxidant'.

And what role does high BP play in ED/circulation in general. Reason I ask is on examine.com is says blood flow is independant of BP levels. It also suggested yohimbine increases erection strength as it raises BP which suggests stimulants which raise BP can actually help with ED.


----------



## Kahen

ElChapo said:


> Have you done heavy or extended cycles in the past? Any family history of heart disease? and what is your approximate body fat %?


 Earlier cycles were just test E only at 500mg a week. Tried deca for 12 weeks but didn't get on with it. After that I've stuck to test/tren but haven't gone over 12 weeks, highest dose I went to was 300mg test and 600mg tren E, always kept low test high tren as I thought I managed the sides better. Maybe I should try higher test than tren and keep the tren lower?

Strangely enough my estranged uncle has just got back in touch with the family and he has heart disease. Before we knew this there was no history of it in the family. My GP has actually booked me in for an echocardiogram in September which hopefully will give me some answers. Body fat approx 16%


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo your thoughts on high dose vit c for natural diuretic effect?

If yes, 5g sufficient?

Also, if yes, would this be noticeable in a cutting stack already containing 50mg winstrol?


----------



## stuey99

Could you have a look at my blood results pls mate

120mg test prop/100mg mast prop eod

Had libido and erection issues. Takes ages to get it up then erection is weak...totally not what I'd expect on these doses and compounds

Also sweating alot...yes, we're having a mini heatwave here at the minute...but I lived in the middle east for years so can handle the heat

Slight problems sleeping...but nothing major

Judging by test at 36nmol I'm thinking test prop is underdosed and switched labs...but regardless, sex drive should be fine at 36nmol

I've taken 12.5mg aromasin today to nudge estrogen down a little, but normally I'd be fine with estrogen just above range

Had a chat with @swole troll and he's unsure

SHBG is very low...could that be an issue?

Thanks in advance mate


----------



## Hosi

ElChapo said:


> Correct, keto and low carb are horrible for mood/wellbeing and performance. There is no benefit to keto. Add some carbs, focus on your calories, that is where your fat loss will come from (Caloric deficit). This is why i hate keto/low carb. Bad mood, higher stress, lower libido, poor performance in the gym and bedroom with no true benefit for fat loss. You are correct, it's because it causes lower serotonin levels (less tryptophan which is a precursor to serotonin) and higher cortisol levels (Stress hormones).
> 
> What do you do? Add carbs back in and throw the keto/low carb diet into the trash bin. 150-200 g carbs per day is usually enough to get you into the optimal zone but it depends on your weight, muscularity, activity levels, etc. Once you add carbs back in, you are going to feel brand new.
> 
> What is symex? Some anti-estrogen supplement?


 Hi sir,

sorry for late answer to your question regarding symex, his active compound is exemestane.

What would be your opinion to day routine like ( I emphasize that I want to optimize time in the gym):

1. Training powerbuilding fasted in the morning ( less people in the gym ) for 50-60 min

2. Work 8h

3. Cardio ( liss for 30-40 min or jogging for 30 min)

4. First meal ( carbs with 60-80 g of protein)

5.One to two hours later normal eating for maintain calories for cutting

Target is to loose fat and stay lean. Currently 150 mg of test e e4d, hcg 2x per week, symex (exemestane) 2 days after test e, clen 40mg ed+coffeine 200 mg before training.

Currently bf about 18%

What you recommend to change above for optimization?


----------



## MrGRoberts

@ElChapo

I don't need an AI on 200mg a week of Test Cyp.

im thinking of swapping to Test P just because I fancy a change and I've seen you say it's just a better version of testosterone. 
What's the same equivalent dose of Test P that I won't need an AI.

And is Test P really that much better?

Thanks


----------



## stuey99

MrGRoberts said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I don't need an AI on 200mg a week of Test Cyp.
> 
> im thinking of swapping to Test P just because I fancy a change and I've seen you say it's just a better version of testosterone.
> What's the same equivalent dose of Test P that I won't need an AI.
> 
> And is Test P really that much better?
> 
> Thanks


 175 mate


----------



## MrGRoberts

stuey99 said:


> 175 mate


 Do you use Test P? How frequent do you jab it?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Long term steroid use/abuse causing some visceral fat stockage ? fatty liver?

I'm asking this because my stomach is bigger , if I breath entirely I can get the bodybuilder stomach , I'm 10% bf and I'm only using 200mg test but been using orals low dose for weeks/months last year , and started AAS use in 2015-2016.

I don't have stomach problem , no gas . I eat healthy and take good supplements for years .

Been seeing this early 2019 .

My blood works are good , only RBC high sometimes .

My kinetherapist touched my stomach and told me that I should have eaten too much (I didnt eat early before lol) and touched where my liver is and told me that maybe I had fatty liver ? I didnt even tell her it was hurting when she was pushing.

My liver blood results are perfect , but I may need to do a test for fatty liver . do you know how I can do that ?


----------



## stuey99

MrGRoberts said:


> Do you use Test P? How frequent do you jab it?


 eod mate


----------



## Malin

If you're running a 500mg pw test e cycle and 50mg of anavar for the first 4 weeks, how long would take a break for from running anavar again during the same cycle?


----------



## Youdontknowme

Malin said:


> If you're running a 500mg pw test e cycle and 50mg of anavar for the first 4 weeks, how long would take a break for from running anavar again during the same cycle?


 Don't bother taking a break. Just run it 8 weeks


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Would you say cardio excercise in itself would class as an 'antioxidant'.
> 
> And what role does high BP play in ED/circulation in general. Reason I ask is on examine.com is says blood flow is independant of BP levels. It also suggested yohimbine increases erection strength as it raises BP which suggests stimulants which raise BP can actually help with ED.


 Yes, it increases your production of natural antioxidants like superoxide dismutase. It makes your body more resistant to oxidation. Exercise actually exposes your body to a lot of oxidation, your body compensates by increasing production of it's own antioxidant.

High BP eventually damages the plumbing that you need for strong erections and heart function/circulation. High BP can be cause by multiple things, it can be vascular calcification which would make the veins/arteries "harder" which means more vascular resistance = high pressure. It can also be related to hormones that control vascular relaxation, making the arteries stiff because they don't relax enough, or fluid volume.

Yohimbine is unique and is not your typical stimulant. Most stimulants will hinder erections. Yohimbine is an alpha adrenergic 2 receptor antagonist and it has some unique libido and erection enhancing effects by affect MAO levels/dopamine. Other stims will do the opposite for erections.


----------



## ElChapo

Kahen said:


> Earlier cycles were just test E only at 500mg a week. Tried deca for 12 weeks but didn't get on with it. After that I've stuck to test/tren but haven't gone over 12 weeks, highest dose I went to was 300mg test and 600mg tren E, always kept low test high tren as I thought I managed the sides better. Maybe I should try higher test than tren and keep the tren lower?
> 
> Strangely enough my estranged uncle has just got back in touch with the family and he has heart disease. Before we knew this there was no history of it in the family. My GP has actually booked me in for an echocardiogram in September which hopefully will give me some answers. Body fat approx 16%


 That echo will give you more info, you can re-ask me the question as it's probably buried in older posts by now.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo your thoughts on high dose vit c for natural diuretic effect?
> 
> If yes, 5g sufficient?
> 
> Also, if yes, would this be noticeable in a cutting stack already containing 50mg winstrol?


 Not really and very high doses can predispose you to kidney stones. Winstrol will dry you out well without being an actual diuretic.


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> Could you have a look at my blood results pls mate
> 
> 120mg test prop/100mg mast prop eod
> 
> Had libido and erection issues. Takes ages to get it up then erection is weak...totally not what I'd expect on these doses and compounds
> 
> Also sweating alot...yes, we're having a mini heatwave here at the minute...but I lived in the middle east for years so can handle the heat
> 
> Slight problems sleeping...but nothing major
> 
> Judging by test at 36nmol I'm thinking test prop is underdosed and switched labs...but regardless, sex drive should be fine at 36nmol
> 
> I've taken 12.5mg aromasin today to nudge estrogen down a little, but normally I'd be fine with estrogen just above range
> 
> Had a chat with @swole troll and he's unsure
> 
> SHBG is very low...could that be an issue?
> 
> Thanks in advance mate
> 
> View attachment 187765
> 
> 
> View attachment 187767
> 
> 
> View attachment 187769


 Were you taking aromatase inhibitors the whole time or you just started?

Are you on low carb or keto diet?


----------



## ElChapo

Hosi said:


> Hi sir,
> 
> sorry for late answer to your question regarding symex, his active compound is exemestane.
> 
> What would be your opinion to day routine like ( I emphasize that I want to optimize time in the gym):
> 
> 1. Training powerbuilding fasted in the morning ( less people in the gym ) for 50-60 min
> 
> 2. Work 8h
> 
> 3. Cardio ( liss for 30-40 min or jogging for 30 min)
> 
> 4. First meal ( carbs with 60-80 g of protein)
> 
> 5.One to two hours later normal eating for maintain calories for cutting
> 
> Target is to loose fat and stay lean. Currently 150 mg of test e e4d, hcg 2x per week, symex (exemestane) 2 days after test e, clen 40mg ed+coffeine 200 mg before training.
> 
> Currently bf about 18%
> 
> What you recommend to change above for optimization?


 Not sure how far into the day your first meal would be, but generally i would not fast past 2 PM.

Looks fine, 100% of your results will be your caloric deficit. I generally don't recommend touching aromatase inhibitor/anti-estrogen unless needed. You have to be very careful with dosage if you do use them as well.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I don't need an AI on 200mg a week of Test Cyp.
> 
> im thinking of swapping to Test P just because I fancy a change and I've seen you say it's just a better version of testosterone.
> What's the same equivalent dose of Test P that I won't need an AI.
> 
> And is Test P really that much better?
> 
> Thanks


 Try 200 mg testosterone prop and go from there. I notice less water retention in the face/over the muscles, better energy/mood and physique (thanks to less water). It's just one of those bro-sciency things but nothing beats a personal anecdote you can see with your own eyes. I always do twice weekly and that works for me. Ventroglute will slow down absorption/increase half-life a bit.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Long term steroid use/abuse causing some visceral fat stockage ? fatty liver?
> 
> I'm asking this because my stomach is bigger , if I breath entirely I can get the bodybuilder stomach , I'm 10% bf and I'm only using 200mg test but been using orals low dose for weeks/months last year , and started AAS use in 2015-2016.
> 
> I don't have stomach problem , no gas . I eat healthy and take good supplements for years .
> 
> Been seeing this early 2019 .
> 
> My blood works are good , only RBC high sometimes .
> 
> My kinetherapist touched my stomach and told me that I should have eaten too much (I didnt eat early before lol) and touched where my liver is and told me that maybe I had fatty liver ? I didnt even tell her it was hurting when she was pushing.
> 
> My liver blood results are perfect , but I may need to do a test for fatty liver . do you know how I can do that ?


 If you are lean and you don't abuse alcohol/drugs, it is extremely unlikely that you have fatty liver. The stomach thing can sometimes just be hypertrophied rectus abdominus muscle and weak transverse abdominis (ab vacuum muscle). Working on vacuums will help tighten up your stomach, remember, when you see instagram and magazine models, these guys are sucking it in, with perfect lighting, perfect angles, air brushing and photoshop, real/normal people do not look like that and even those guys don't look like that 95% of the time. Don't obsess over it and enjoy life brother.


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> Were you taking aromatase inhibitors the whole time or you just started?
> 
> Are you on low carb or keto diet?


 I'd literally just taken 12.5 aromasin the day I got results mate. I'm normally fine with estrogen slightly above range (although normally with higher test levels than 36nmol)...but it was the only result I could see that could be causing problems

And no...high carb...I'm bulking


----------



## pma111

ElChapo said:


> It can also be related to hormones that control vascular relaxation, making the arteries stiff because they don't relax enough, or fluid volume.


 Thanks (again). I would be interested in learning a bit more behind the hormonal deficiencies/imbalances and fluid volume link betweem high BP. Could you give some more info?


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> I'd literally just taken 12.5 aromasin the day I got results mate. I'm normally fine with estrogen slightly above range (although normally with higher test levels than 36nmol)...but it was the only result I could see that could be causing problems
> 
> And no...high carb...I'm bulking


 Do you use porn at all? Some people get desensitized from that.

When did you get your results? How many days after starting the cycle? What were the results? Some guys do get decrease in libido from masteron as well.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Thanks (again). I would be interested in learning a bit more behind the hormonal deficiencies/imbalances and fluid volume link betweem high BP. Could you give some more info?


 More often than not, it's plaque in the arteries making them hard, but the hormonal reasons are as follows:

Hormones like aldosterone/angiotensin will increase volume and pressure. BP meds have different ways of working, one of them blocks adrenaline's effects on vascular relaxation/contraction (beta blockers), angiotensin receptor inhibitors block that hormone angiotensin which increases volume and BP.

The hormones are catecholamines (dopamine, adrenaline, noradrenaline) and angiotensin/aldosterone (hormones that increase fluid in the body and BP)

That's a quick crash course/101 on the subject.


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> Do you use porn at all? Some people get desensitized from that.
> 
> When did you get your results? How many days after starting the cycle? What were the results? Some guys do get decrease in libido from masteron as well.


 Results were about 6 weeks after starting cycle

First month was fine, then switched lab and went downhill

Obviously 36nmol is low for 420test prop so gear was underdosed...but still above range so I dont see that being the problem

I always run mast, both on blast and cruise and never had issues before...as with porn, yeah I use it but no issue

I've switched to enanthate now, 3 weeks in at 420mg test and 280mg mast and everythings good again

I'm still really intersted to know what the issue was tho?

I'm assuming you're not seeing anything in my blood work that would explain it?

For about 2 weeks I literally had zero sex drive...not something I ever wamna repeat

Maybe body getting desensitised to mast? Is that possible?

What do you think of my SHBG levels?


----------



## Tricky

To pass a steroid test without raising too many eyebrows would 150mg test p split but weekly put your test levels too high to be considered natural? What dose would put you slightly over or at the high end of a normal healthy Male you could get away with

again with HGH or will it not show up in a routine steroid test?


----------



## Ferenor

Hi ElChapo,

Do you think that using IP6 could help normalize/lower Hemoglobin and/or hematocrit? I'm already doing multiple injections during the week (4 injections, MWFSu) drinking 6+ liters of liquids, taking 3+ grams of epa+dha, baby aspirin before bed. I still have to do a blood test while doing all these things, but I would like to know your opinion about ip6 for this.


----------



## Whoremoan1

hello elchapo

youve probably answered this a lot but theres too many pages haha

was wondering if it is possible to lower kidney(creatinine) levels if they are a bit above range ?

i have had them tested a few times and i did see a decrease once

and at what point are levels really dangerous ? if it did happen, is it possible to come off everything and remain on trt without causing extra damage?


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Try 200 mg testosterone prop and go from there. I notice less water retention in the face/over the muscles, better energy/mood and physique (thanks to less water). It's just one of those bro-sciency things but nothing beats a personal anecdote you can see with your own eyes. I always do twice weekly and that works for me. Ventroglute will slow down absorption/increase half-life a bit.


 I only injected 0.35ml of Test P yesterday and now I have Pip! I'll just stick to Test E/C. Can't be bothered with PIP after every jab lol


----------



## pma111

What kind of supplements /drugs would you speculate elite (long distance) runners/cyclists would be running to give them a competitive edge?


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> Results were about 6 weeks after starting cycle
> 
> First month was fine, then switched lab and went downhill
> 
> Obviously 36nmol is low for 420test prop so gear was underdosed...but still above range so I dont see that being the problem
> 
> I always run mast, both on blast and cruise and never had issues before...as with porn, yeah I use it but no issue
> 
> I've switched to enanthate now, 3 weeks in at 420mg test and 280mg mast and everythings good again
> 
> I'm still really intersted to know what the issue was tho?
> 
> I'm assuming you're not seeing anything in my blood work that would explain it?
> 
> For about 2 weeks I literally had zero sex drive...not something I ever wamna repeat
> 
> Maybe body getting desensitised to mast? Is that possible?
> 
> What do you think of my SHBG levels?
> 
> View attachment 189365
> 
> 
> View attachment 189367
> 
> 
> View attachment 189369


 Masteron and other androgens can nuke SHBG. It's not a concern.

It could have been something about that testosterone propionate. Maybe it was mixed with deca, who knows. Could have been something in your life or diet in those 2 weeks that affected you as well.


----------



## Simon90

@ElChapo how long would you suggest to run 100mg anadrol for? 
cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> To pass a steroid test without raising too many eyebrows would 150mg test p split but weekly put your test levels too high to be considered natural? What dose would put you slightly over or at the high end of a normal healthy Male you could get away with
> 
> again with HGH or will it not show up in a routine steroid test?


 It depends on the levels that you get from that dosage. Some people will be way over range on that much testosterone. Some people easily hit twice over the top of the lab range with that dosage.

It also depends on the test. Some tests will measure epitestosterone, by testing the ratio testosterone to epitestosterone, you can tell if someone is using exogenous testosterone even if they are in range. They can also do a special assay that looks at the actual molecule of testosterone in your blood/urine and can tell if it came from human testes or made in a lab. The basic tests will just look at your testosterone level though.

HGH will not show up. HGH is NOT a steroid. HGH is a peptide hormone.


----------



## ElChapo

Ferenor said:


> Hi ElChapo,
> 
> Do you think that using IP6 could help normalize/lower Hemoglobin and/or hematocrit? I'm already doing multiple injections during the week (4 injections, MWFSu) drinking 6+ liters of liquids, taking 3+ grams of epa+dha, baby aspirin before bed. I still have to do a blood test while doing all these things, but I would like to know your opinion about ip6 for this.


 Aspirin and omega 3s do not lower hematocrit. They just make the blood less likely to clot.

Supposedly IP6 can lower iron levels. This can cause it's own issues. How much testosterone are you taking per week? Have you ever been tested for sleep apnea? Are you very lean or over 15% body fat?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> hello elchapo
> 
> youve probably answered this a lot but theres too many pages haha
> 
> was wondering if it is possible to lower kidney(creatinine) levels if they are a bit above range ?
> 
> i have had them tested a few times and i did see a decrease once
> 
> and at what point are levels really dangerous ? if it did happen, is it possible to come off everything and remain on trt without causing extra damage?


 Higher levels of creatinine can be normal if you eat a lot of protein, don't drink a lot of water, take creatine or have higher than average levels of muscle mass. You can lower your creatinine by drinking a lot of water. Creatinine is a metabolite of muscle, so drinking water will dilute the concentration in your blood/urine and being dehydrated will do the opposite.

Do you know what your GFR are is? Do you have high blood pressure or diabetes? High BP and blood glucose are the most common cause of long-term kidney damage.

Creatinine is not dangerous unless your kidneys are not working at all, that's when you need dialysis. This only happens in end stage renal disease when GFR is under 20. Creatinine is used as one of the markers to test kidney function, but again, depending on your lifestyle/body composition, you can have high creatinine and have perfectly working kidneys.

TRT/Testosterone is 100% kidney/liver safe. If you abuse TRT/AAS and it causes high blood pressure, the high blood pressure can damage your kidneys, but it's not the AAS/testosterone doing it, it's the high BP damaging the circulation to the kidney cells, they eventually die, and cannot filter your blood of metabolites/electrolytes, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I only injected 0.35ml of Test P yesterday and now I have Pip! I'll just stick to Test E/C. Can't be bothered with PIP after every jab lol


 Did you go IM or SQ? How long is the needle? If Test prop isn't brewed properly, it can PIP more easily. Many UGL will also overdose their AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What kind of supplements /drugs would you speculate elite (long distance) runners/cyclists would be running to give them a competitive edge?


 As far as i know, testosterone gels are very popular. Peptides/growth factors/HGH, EPO. It's all about recovery. Meldonium supposedly increases endurance by a lot as well.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> Did you go IM or SQ? How long is the needle? If Test prop isn't brewed properly, it can PIP more easily. Many UGL will also overdose their AAS.


 IM. 1 inch 25g. I've had pip off short esters before. They just don't agree with my body. PIP isn't worth it for me.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> @ElChapo how long would you suggest to run 100mg anadrol for?
> cheers


 8-12 weeks is the sweet spot for maximum gains/long-term liver health, with TUDCA/NAC for the entire course (250-500 mg/1000 mg respectively)


----------



## squeezemyhernia

MrGRoberts said:


> IM. 1 inch 25g. I've had pip off short esters before. They just don't agree with my body. PIP isn't worth it for me.


 Mate I'm on sus npp and mast prop, and it is fu**ing ruining me every week I literally never get pip but this cycle is so fu**ing bad it must be due to short esters I usually only use test E and deca


----------



## ElChapo

squeezemyhernia said:


> Mate I'm on sus npp and mast prop, and it is fu**ing ruining me every week I literally never get pip but this cycle is so fu**ing bad it must be due to short esters I usually only use test E and deca


 Ibuprofen is your best friend. Make sure to try and avoid the oil going SQ by using a long enough needle and holding it in place for 20 seconds after injection. Hormones tend to crystalize out of oil more easily when they go SQ. Short esters do not stay dissolved in oil as easily as long esters, so they are more prone to crashing and PIP-ing in the body.


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate. I'm getting lumps when pinning peptides. 
My legs are quite lean and can't get enough fat to pin them there. So been using abdomen area and getting lumps which last a couple days. Any way to avoid this? I do not want to pin the lumped areas but will be running out of places to pin sub q


----------



## Darrenwins

I Get different answers on ester lengths and get slaughtered if I suggest something perceived as incorrect on a popular steroid subreddit on reddit lol - NPP is OK taken twice a week Monday AM & Thursday PM?


----------



## MrGRoberts

squeezemyhernia said:


> Mate I'm on sus npp and mast prop, and it is fu**ing ruining me every week I literally never get pip but this cycle is so fu**ing bad it must be due to short esters I usually only use test E and deca


 Yeah PIP ain't worth it for me like I said. Cause it's not just the pain in the injection site but I get achey joints, head ache and feel weak all over :lol:


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> Masteron and other androgens can nuke SHBG. It's not a concern.
> 
> It could have been something about that testosterone propionate. Maybe it was mixed with deca, who knows. Could have been something in your life or diet in those 2 weeks that affected you as well.


 All possibilities mate...been under alot of stress lately with family and business

Thanks for taking the time to look bro :thumbup1:


----------



## squeezemyhernia

MrGRoberts said:


> Yeah PIP ain't worth it for me like I said. Cause it's not just the pain in the injection site but I get achey joints, head ache and feel weak all over :lol:


 Me too mate I get ache bones and feel hot and cold proper flu like. Can't abandon such an expensive cycle now tho lol


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo hi mate, what was the best way to work out macros and tdee . I think you recommend a website or particular calculator on a previous thread?

Cheers


----------



## MrGRoberts

squeezemyhernia said:


> Me too mate I get ache bones and feel hot and cold proper flu like. Can't abandon such an expensive cycle now tho lol


 Ouch :lol:


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate. I'm getting lumps when pinning peptides.
> My legs are quite lean and can't get enough fat to pin them there. So been using abdomen area and getting lumps which last a couple days. Any way to avoid this? I do not want to pin the lumped areas but will be running out of places to pin sub q


 You could just go IM or rotate the spot on the abdomen as needed. Are you using bac water?


----------



## ElChapo

Darrenwins said:


> I Get different answers on ester lengths and get slaughtered if I suggest something perceived as incorrect on a popular steroid subreddit on reddit lol - NPP is OK taken twice a week Monday AM & Thursday PM?


 Yes, NPP actually has longer half life than Propionate. Many have used prop only twice weekly including myself with excellent results. At the end of the day, obsessing over these minute details distracts you from the fundamentals and will not improve your results in any meaningful way.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> Yeah PIP ain't worth it for me like I said. Cause it's not just the pain in the injection site but I get achey joints, head ache and feel weak all over :lol:


 PIP flu, it's the inflammatory chemicals released in your body due to the inflammation at Injection site that causes flu like symptoms.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo hi mate, what was the best way to work out macros and tdee . I think you recommend a website or particular calculator on a previous thread?
> 
> Cheers


 Depends on bulk or cut.

For calories https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

Use Katch-McArdle method.


----------



## feelinfine

What is happening in the 3-4 weeks before the "kick in" time with long esters? I mean it has to be doing something having 10x normal amount of anabolic hormones. What happens in these later weeks that switches on the strength, energy, size?


----------



## Simon90

ElChapo said:


> You could just go IM or rotate the spot on the abdomen as needed. Are you using bac water?


 Yes bac water

worried about Im Incase of infection, if it's causing this kinda reaction subq never had issue before.


----------



## ElChapo

feelinfine said:


> What is happening in the 3-4 weeks before the "kick in" time with long esters? I mean it has to be doing something having 10x normal amount of anabolic hormones. What happens in these later weeks that switches on the strength, energy, size?


 Gene expression. Genes are turned on that increase nitrogen, protein synthesis, NOS, GABA, etc.

We are used to effects like coffee and energy which are "non-genomic" in nature. They don't rely on turning on genes, so effects are very rapid. In caffeine's case, it's an adenosine receptor antagonist (blocker). Adenosine makes you sleepy and tired.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Yes bac water
> 
> worried about Im Incase of infection, if it's causing this kinda reaction subq never had issue before.


 It might be your source or the compound you are using. What peptide are you using? Infection would happen IM or SQ regardless.


----------



## pma111

Is high blood pressure sometimes / usually a sign there are stiff arteries / plaque build up and a sign the heart is having to work harder to force blood flow, i.e. apply more 'pressure' ? Therefore hypertension is both a cause for these and a symptom of these issues existing? (Chicken and Egg).


----------



## TDXB

Hi, just got some blood results back, 300mg (1.2ml) Nebido every week for 6+ months now.

put me in high normal range according to the norm values.

Test total 765 ng/dl (26.5 nmol/L)

Test free 45.51 pg/ml (0.269 nmol/L) (Chemiluminescence Immunoassay)

so I'm wondering if I'm a fast metabolizer or if the undecanoate ester is taking up more weight than I thought. On the packaging it says 250mg nebido is equivalent to 157.9mg test base, which means I should be getting 180+mg test base every week.

what do you think? I feel great on it and have no complaints, just a bit surprised is all.

cheers


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Higher levels of creatinine can be normal if you eat a lot of protein, don't drink a lot of water, take creatine or have higher than average levels of muscle mass. You can lower your creatinine by drinking a lot of water. Creatinine is a metabolite of muscle, so drinking water will dilute the concentration in your blood/urine and being dehydrated will do the opposite.
> 
> Do you know what your GFR are is? Do you have high blood pressure or diabetes? High BP and blood glucose are the most common cause of long-term kidney damage.
> 
> Creatinine is not dangerous unless your kidneys are not working at all, that's when you need dialysis. This only happens in end stage renal disease when GFR is under 20. Creatinine is used as one of the markers to test kidney function, but again, depending on your lifestyle/body composition, you can have high creatinine and have perfectly working kidneys.
> 
> TRT/Testosterone is 100% kidney/liver safe. If you abuse TRT/AAS and it causes high blood pressure, the high blood pressure can damage your kidneys, but it's not the AAS/testosterone doing it, it's the high BP damaging the circulation to the kidney cells, they eventually die, and cannot filter your blood of metabolites/electrolytes, etc.


 thanks again for your great info, i got my results back and gfr, creatinine etc are all bang in the middle of range, so happy with that considering i love tren haha i just never blast too high

another quick one though , is there anything that can raise dht ? or lower it if its too high ?


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> Is high blood pressure sometimes / usually a sign there are stiff arteries / plaque build up and a sign the heart is having to work harder to force blood flow, i.e. apply more 'pressure' ? Therefore hypertension is both a cause for these and a symptom of these issues existing? (Chicken and Egg).


 It can be, like i stated in the recent post, there are physical and hormonal/chemical causes of high blood pressure. The plaque build up is one of the reasons why older people tend to have high BP. Plaque builds up over time as you age.

It's possible that hypertension can exacerbate plaque build up as well, as you stated "chicken/egg". Anything that stresses, injures or inflames the arteries will encourage plaque build up.


----------



## ElChapo

TDXB said:


> Hi, just got some blood results back, 300mg (1.2ml) Nebido every week for 6+ months now.
> 
> put me in high normal range according to the norm values.
> 
> Test total 765 ng/dl (26.5 nmol/L)
> 
> Test free 45.51 pg/ml (0.269 nmol/L) (Chemiluminescence Immunoassay)
> 
> so I'm wondering if I'm a fast metabolizer or if the undecanoate ester is taking up more weight than I thought. On the packaging it says 250mg nebido is equivalent to 157.9mg test base, which means I should be getting 180+mg test base every week.
> 
> what do you think? I feel great on it and have no complaints, just a bit surprised is all.
> 
> cheers


 We're all different and most important thing is that you feel well.

There are genes that control how fast the ester is "cleaved" off the hormone, which will directly affect the half-life, bioavailability and levels you see on your blood work. I think you are fine and that's a solid level for TRT. As long as mood, energy, and erection quality is good, then i would have no concerns.


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> thanks again for your great info, i got my results back and gfr, creatinine etc are all bang in the middle of range, so happy with that considering i love tren haha i just never blast too high
> 
> another quick one though , is there anything that can raise dht ? or lower it if its too high ?


 Testosterone gel and cream on the scrotum will cause the largest spike in DHT. The scrotal skin contains very very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase hormone. Normal skin application will also give you more DHT than injectable does but scrotal is the highest.

Finasteride/Dutasteride is the best DHT lowering compound you can get. I would not touch DHT as it it's important for CNS and other functions in your body.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Testosterone gel and cream on the scrotum will cause the largest spike in DHT. The scrotal skin contains very very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase hormone. Normal skin application will also give you more DHT than injectable does but scrotal is the highest.
> 
> Finasteride/Dutasteride is the best DHT lowering compound you can get. I would not touch DHT as it it's important for CNS and other functions in your body.


 yeh im not using any cream, but my dht is double the limit and always has been ? doctor made me retest with lcms but still the same

just wondering if i should be worried ? i went bald at a very young age and have more body hair than an ape , but the positives outweigh the negatives, i never have issues with sex drive even if i come off, ive never not been able to have sex and have never gone longer than a day without it... but should i be protecting my prostate or heart with anything? and if so wht would you suggest ? i read the only thing that works for prostate is pygeum... is this true ?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo would taking 0.7ml Test P e3d as a cruise , a 'healthy' amount for months of cruise ?

I'm trying to get more and more low dosage to get close to TRT levels , so I get less and less sides.

I still get high RBC , but maybe it will get lower in the coming weeks.

I was using 250mg test E/w , than I was using test P 80mg + 40mg test C e3d , now 0.7mg test P E3d , and in some weeks I'll lower to 0.6mg test P E3D.

I know it's more than my natural levels and I'm ok with that as I still want to have an small advantage of my natural levels , I'm just trying to get rid or at least lessen the possible futur complications.


----------



## 90537

@ElChapo

I have a buddy who loves and responds very well to low dose dianabol

However, he is super gyno prone and always runs into issues at a dose as low as 15mg per day

Is it possible to run it and protect himself or would the meds used to combat it cancel out the gains from such a low dose of dianabol?

Would he need to bump up the dose if he was to run some form of protection?

Cheers buddy

Danny


----------



## TDXB

ElChapo said:


> We're all different and most important thing is that you feel well.
> 
> There are genes that control how fast the ester is "cleaved" off the hormone, which will directly affect the half-life, bioavailability and levels you see on your blood work. I think you are fine and that's a solid level for TRT. As long as mood, energy, and erection quality is good, then i would have no concerns.


 Thank you.

Are there any oral supplements to increase ejaculate volume while on test/TRT? Not worried about sperm count or quality, just volume...


----------



## Baka

TDXB said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Are there any oral supplements to increase ejaculate volume while on test/TRT? Not worried about sperm count or quality, just volume...


 I think Maca helps. I do take Maca and I ve got more volume for sure , but I take it everyday since 3 months now at 3g/day


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo

Hi mate, you may recall I asked November last year about my partners thyroid levels. He t4 level was 9.9pmoL/l and went to the doc. They took bloods and it was 9.5 and yet the said this was fine. Its been several months and now the ssri she takes has been increased as he leathery has worsened, her moods are at an all time low and she's approx 20lbs heavier now than a year ago. (tsh was Hugh, t3 was mid range all of these times)

Bloods via her gp here in the UK were taken last week and are at 12.8pmoL/l.

Seems low as hell, so I think she's going to take t4 at 50mcg per day and T3 at 25mcg per day for a few weeks to see if this helps things, then another blood test to see what the result is and level are in her body.

Are there other things she can do thyroid wise as the knock on effect of the low mood and being constantly tired has made her gain weight, which in turn hasn't helped her depression..... Vicious cycle. She is back at the gym and slowly changing things, but I thought I'd ask specifically about the t3/t4 amounts she should take and when. Ie morning on empty stomach etc

Her ssri is serataline, she is on 100mg daily at night. Thisbis higher than the 50mg she was on before and just mast year she was 25mg so the plan was to reduce to 25mg for several weeks over an above the thyroid meds.

Any help is appreciated etc


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> yeh im not using any cream, but my dht is double the limit and always has been ? doctor made me retest with lcms but still the same
> 
> just wondering if i should be worried ? i went bald at a very young age and have more body hair than an ape , but the positives outweigh the negatives, i never have issues with sex drive even if i come off, ive never not been able to have sex and have never gone longer than a day without it... but should i be protecting my prostate or heart with anything? and if so wht would you suggest ? i read the only thing that works for prostate is pygeum... is this true ?


 That's just genetic. Don't worry so much, hairy high DHT men have been around for millenia and they have been fine. Hairy balding men don't automatically get prostate cancer.

I suggest relaxing and focusing on general health and enjoying your life. The DHT will not be an issue. What is your exact level?


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hi mate, you may recall I asked November last year about my partners thyroid levels. He t4 level was 9.9pmoL/l and went to the doc. They took bloods and it was 9.5 and yet the said this was fine. Its been several months and now the ssri she takes has been increased as he leathery has worsened, her moods are at an all time low and she's approx 20lbs heavier now than a year ago. (tsh was Hugh, t3 was mid range all of these times)
> 
> Bloods via her gp here in the UK were taken last week and are at 12.8pmoL/l.
> 
> Seems low as hell, so I think she's going to take t4 at 50mcg per day and T3 at 25mcg per day for a few weeks to see if this helps things, then another blood test to see what the result is and level are in her body.
> 
> Are there other things she can do thyroid wise as the knock on effect of the low mood and being constantly tired has made her gain weight, which in turn hasn't helped her depression..... Vicious cycle. She is back at the gym and slowly changing things, but I thought I'd ask specifically about the t3/t4 amounts she should take and when. Ie morning on empty stomach etc
> 
> Her ssri is serataline, she is on 100mg daily at night. Thisbis higher than the 50mg she was on before and just mast year she was 25mg so the plan was to reduce to 25mg for several weeks over an above the thyroid meds.
> 
> Any help is appreciated etc


 You f**ked up by listening to the doctors and disregarding my earlier advice. SSRIs kill libido and can cause a ton of weight gain ( Two most common sides i see in patients)

What she needed was to address her hypothyroidism, not add an SSRI which causes more issues than they resolve.

Your approach is completely off. 25 mcg T3 is too much. Start with 50-100 mcg T4 and re-test in 4 weeks. You should be aiming for 18-22 FREE T4. Make sure it's Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine. This is the level found in healthy people with healthy working thyroid glands.

You do not add T3 unless needed once Free T4 is optimized, and you only add a tiny bit. A healthy thyroid secretes about 100 mcg T4 and 5-8 mcg T3 per day. The oral bioavailability of oral T4 is only 60-80%, so a 100 mcg tablet only nets you 60-80 mcg. Most patients need 100-200 mcg daily for T4/levothyroxine and 0-10 mcg T3. When you optimize T4, most patients do not need the T3 added, but some do benefit. Levothyroxine/T4 must be taken on an empty stomach in the morning and you should wait 60 minutes before consuming anything else but water by mouth. After 4 weeks, re-test, increase dosage until you attain 18-22 Free T4. If any residual symptoms persist, add a tiny bit of T3.

She needs to get off that garbage SSRI, nothing good comes from them. It will suppress libido and lead to weight/fat gain. It's just bad stuff. Addressing her thyroid problem CORRECTLY will resolve depression/energy/concentration issues.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo would taking 0.7ml Test P e3d as a cruise , a 'healthy' amount for months of cruise ?
> 
> I'm trying to get more and more low dosage to get close to TRT levels , so I get less and less sides.
> 
> I still get high RBC , but maybe it will get lower in the coming weeks.
> 
> I was using 250mg test E/w , than I was using test P 80mg + 40mg test C e3d , now 0.7mg test P E3d , and in some weeks I'll lower to 0.6mg test P E3D.
> 
> I know it's more than my natural levels and I'm ok with that as I still want to have an small advantage of my natural levels , I'm just trying to get rid or at least lessen the possible futur complications.


 If you mean 0.7 mL of 100 mg/mL, that's about 150 mg per week. For some people, that can put their total/free testosterone over the range. Is that dangerous? Depends on BP, HCT, etc. Only way to find out is to try it and see.

Don't mix esters, it just complicates things with zero benefit.


----------



## ElChapo

Shergar said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I have a buddy who loves and responds very well to low dose dianabol
> 
> However, he is super gyno prone and always runs into issues at a dose as low as 15mg per day
> 
> Is it possible to run it and protect himself or would the meds used to combat it cancel out the gains from such a low dose of dianabol?
> 
> Would he need to bump up the dose if he was to run some form of protection?
> 
> Cheers buddy
> 
> Danny


 Nolva/Ralox might keep it off. Dose should not need any changes either. Worst case scenario, nolva/ralox will definitely reverse regardless.


----------



## ElChapo

TDXB said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Are there any oral supplements to increase ejaculate volume while on test/TRT? Not worried about sperm count or quality, just volume...


 Anecdotally, some people find that HCG helps with volume. Some people think soy lecithin does too. Staying hydrated definitely helps.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> You f**ked up by listening to the doctors and disregarding my earlier advice. SSRIs kill libido and can cause a ton of weight gain ( Two most common sides i see in patients)
> 
> What she needed was to address her hypothyroidism, not add an SSRI which causes more issues than they resolve.
> 
> Your approach is completely off. 25 mcg T3 is too much. Start with 50-100 mcg T4 and re-test in 4 weeks. You should be aiming for 18-22 FREE T4. Make sure it's Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine. This is the level found in healthy people with healthy working thyroid glands.
> 
> You do not add T3 unless needed once Free T4 is optimized, and you only add a tiny bit. A healthy thyroid secretes about 100 mcg T4 and 5-8 mcg T3 per day. The oral bioavailability of oral T4 is only 60-80%, so a 100 mcg tablet only nets you 60-80 mcg. Most patients need 100-200 mcg daily for T4/levothyroxine and 0-10 mcg T3. When you optimize T4, most patients do not need the T3 added, but some do benefit. Levothyroxine/T4 must be taken on an empty stomach in the morning and you should wait 60 minutes before consuming anything else but water by mouth. After 4 weeks, re-test, increase dosage until you attain 18-22 Free T4. If any residual symptoms persist, add a tiny bit of T3.
> 
> She needs to get off that garbage SSRI, nothing good comes from them. It will suppress libido and lead to weight/fat gain. It's just bad stuff. Addressing her thyroid problem CORRECTLY will resolve depression/energy/concentration issues.


 We didn't disregard your advice, she's been on the ssri at one level or another four years. After your advice we got bloods twice and her gp refused her an appt due to lockdown.

Recently I kicked up a fuss and her go agreed bloods again which are still very low, ie 12.8 and we decided just to buy t4 so will follow your protocol. I was just asking if T3 was required as previous advice on this thread when people asked about T3 on a cut was to take 25mcg

I'll let you know how the bloods come back in six weeks of her taking t4 daily and coming off of the ssri also.

Thanks as always for the help.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> If you mean 0.7 mL of 100 mg/mL, that's about 150 mg per week. For some people, that can put their total/free testosterone over the range. Is that dangerous? Depends on BP, HCT, etc. Only way to find out is to try it and see.
> 
> Don't mix esters, it just complicates things with zero benefit.


 Yes 0.7ml of 100mg/mL.

It's not TRT it's more than natural dosage I think but I mean I do feel good on it , I didnt lose any strength from going from 250 to 150mg .

My HCT may go down a little too , BP is in range even on 250mg.

I'll do a blood test in 2-3 months ( didnt gave blood since 3 months because of low ferritin from blood donations ) , to check my RBC/HCT and post here


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Is there any supplements you would consider for kidneys health for a steroid abuser or someone on TRT ?

My GFR isnt that high , my doctor never talked about it but I heard recently that a normal kidney must be at 90 ml/min , mine is less and it s in range of stage 2 renal failure.

Before I started AAS I was at 100 , now I'm at 80


----------



## swole troll

Any major red flags on these renal values for a 110kg male, trained 72hrs prior to test and consumed two meals containing around 50g protein each and ample fluid on the day of the reading?

Urea 7.4mmol
Creatinine 143umol
EGFR 50.37


----------



## Baka

swole troll said:


> Any major red flags on these renal values for a 110kg male, trained 72hrs prior to test and consumed two meals containing around 50g protein each and ample fluid on the day of the reading?
> 
> Urea 7.4mmol
> Creatinine 143umol
> EGFR 50.37


 EGFR at 50 is stage 3 chronic renal failure I think , I'm in the 80's and it's not that good

I m waiting for el Chapo opinion


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> We didn't disregard your advice, she's been on the ssri at one level or another four years. After your advice we got bloods twice and her gp refused her an appt due to lockdown.
> 
> Recently I kicked up a fuss and her go agreed bloods again which are still very low, ie 12.8 and we decided just to buy t4 so will follow your protocol. I was just asking if T3 was required as previous advice on this thread when people asked about T3 on a cut was to take 25mcg
> 
> I'll let you know how the bloods come back in six weeks of her taking t4 daily and coming off of the ssri also.
> 
> Thanks as always for the help.


 My suggestions

1. Get the Free T4 to 18-22.

2. Wean off the SSRI

3. If residual symptoms persist, add 5-10 mcg T3.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Is there any supplements you would consider for kidneys health for a steroid abuser or someone on TRT ?
> 
> My GFR isnt that high , my doctor never talked about it but I heard recently that a normal kidney must be at 90 ml/min , mine is less and it s in range of stage 2 renal failure.
> 
> Before I started AAS I was at 100 , now I'm at 80


 Keep BP, blood sugar in healthy range. 90% of the time these are your kidney killers.

On paper, AAS are toxic to kidney cells, these are in vitro studies, aka done on cells in petri dishes/test tubes and not humans. In real life, this is not the case.

80 is 100% fine. Only below 60 do we look at it more closely.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Any major red flags on these renal values for a 110kg male, trained 72hrs prior to test and consumed two meals containing around 50g protein each and ample fluid on the day of the reading?
> 
> Urea 7.4mmol
> Creatinine 143umol
> EGFR 50.37


 I generally recommend hydrating well the day before as well.

Have you had high BP for many years in the past? This would give you an idea of if we are looking at possible loss of kidney function. Cystatin C test and microalbumin test can also help.

The more muscle you carry, the lower the GFR can appear, you can use the GFR reading for africans which I recommend for people who train seriously. Does your lab test include the african gfr?


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> I generally recommend hydrating well the day before as well.
> 
> Have you had high BP for many years in the past? This would give you an idea of if we are looking at possible loss of kidney function. Cystatin C test and microalbumin test can also help.
> 
> The more muscle you carry, the lower the GFR can appear, you can use the GFR reading for africans which I recommend for people who train seriously. Does your lab test include the african gfr?


 I'm always adequately hydrated, consume around 5-6 litres daily and plenty of sodium and potassium so I'm confident that can be ruled out.

No my blood pressure has never come back with any cause for concern tested 2-4x per month.

Using the afro Caribbean formula my egfr comes back at 65.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> I'm always adequately hydrated, consume around 5-6 litres daily and plenty of sodium and potassium so I'm confident that can be ruled out.
> 
> No my blood pressure has never come back with any cause for concern tested 2-4x per month.
> 
> Using the afro Caribbean formula my egfr comes back at 65.


 Always use the afro GFR if you have more muscle than average. GFR is calculated by measuring metabolites produced by skeletal muscle, if you carry a lot of muscle, your GFR will naturally be higher than the average person. I would not be concerned at all, but it's good that you are keeping an eye on it.

90% of Chronic Kidney failure patients suffered from poorly controlled blood pressure or blood glucose for many years. As long as you keep your average resting BP under 140/100 mmhg, you will be fine. That last 10% of CKD patients can be attributed to direct trauma to the organ, autoimmune disease and infections from viruses/bacteria (all exceedingly rare).


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo What do you think of MK-677 use , on TRT/low dose cruise ? to get benefits of higher HGH.

I've been training for 12 years , 8 naturaly and 4 on cruise dose (or sometimes lil more but never big blast).
I don't want to blast , and I'd like to stay on TRT or low dose cruise(under 200mg)for long term ; but I still want to have some progress and I was thinking of HGH but can't manage the price , so peptides or MK-677 or other peptides.

What do you think about it? is it worth the price for small advantages?


----------



## Ironman TS

Baka said:


> @ElChapo What do you think of MK-677 use , on TRT/low dose cruise ? to get benefits of higher HGH.
> 
> I've been training for 12 years , 8 naturaly and 4 on cruise dose (or sometimes lil more but never big blast).
> I don't want to blast , and I'd like to stay on TRT or low dose cruise(under 200mg)for long term ; but I still want to have some progress and I was thinking of HGH but can't manage the price , so peptides or MK-677 or other peptides.
> 
> What do you think about it? is it worth the price for small advantages?


 Have a read about MK-677 and blood glucose mate. Put me off using it again.


----------



## Baka

Ironman TS said:


> Have a read about MK-677 and blood glucose mate. Put me off using it again.


 same , that's why I didnt touch it . but still curious about those peptides and mk-677.


----------



## CaneCorsoX2

Ironman TS said:


> Have a read about MK-677 and blood glucose mate. Put me off using it again.


 MK677 is def bad for glucose.

One way I have found that has less of an impact on it is to use a dose 2 - 3 times a week. Alongside a GDA and my blood glucose was fine and still got some benefit of the increased gh pulses.

Obvs you could use exogenous insulin to offset the glucose issues, but I'm not personally one for taking a drug to offset the sides of another, another than say arimidex.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo What do you think of MK-677 use , on TRT/low dose cruise ? to get benefits of higher HGH.
> 
> I've been training for 12 years , 8 naturaly and 4 on cruise dose (or sometimes lil more but never big blast).
> I don't want to blast , and I'd like to stay on TRT or low dose cruise(under 200mg)for long term ; but I still want to have some progress and I was thinking of HGH but can't manage the price , so peptides or MK-677 or other peptides.
> 
> What do you think about it? is it worth the price for small advantages?


 Not something i would advise long-term, it may cause insulin resistance and other issues. For wound healing or blast/sports cycle or a cut, it may have some usefulness. With the availability of HGH, i would choose it over the secretagogues.

Btw, since you have those hematocrit issues, many patients have success using testosterone gel or cream. You can supplement this with some other AAS for blast cycles.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> same , that's why I didnt touch it . but still curious about those peptides and mk-677.


 Using GHRP and GHRH is not a bad way to approach an increase in HGH/IGF. Just keep an eye on IGF to confirm your body is responding and also on fasting blood glucose/HBA1C if using long-term.


----------



## 92917

Hi @El Chapo

I've been on TRT only (175mg Sust). Latest blood test On 175mg showed 33nmol (range 8-29). E2 and prolactin were also slightly raised so have now lowered TRT dose (150mg).

Endo is concerned about 48.8nmol *IGF-1* level (range 17-36). MRI Showed *no* abnormality to pituitary gland. TSH within range, as are all other biomarkers that were tested. He wants to investigate further, perhaps a blood glucose test and see if I have any signs of growth excess in person (I don't have any that I can see).

What are your thoughts and what's the correlation between TRT/cycling and IGF-1? Thanks!!!!


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo

Is it safe/responsible to stay in the 500-600 IGF 1 range for a longer period, say 8-12 months to help speed up healing of niggling injuries?


----------



## squeezemyhernia

Hey @ElChapo - I have been on a 5 year BnC and the mrs wants a baby. What protocol should I follow? do you have one that has a high success rate? I am really worried that it will not be possible as I have never taken HCG, however when I used to cycle I always recovered no problems


----------



## ElChapo

Pez189 said:


> Hi @El Chapo
> 
> I've been on TRT only (175mg Sust). Latest blood test On 175mg showed 33nmol (range 8-29). E2 and prolactin were also slightly raised so have now lowered TRT dose (150mg).
> 
> Endo is concerned about 48.8nmol *IGF-1* level (range 17-36). MRI Showed *no* abnormality to pituitary gland. TSH within range, as are all other biomarkers that were tested. He wants to investigate further, perhaps a blood glucose test and see if I have any signs of growth excess in person (I don't have any that I can see).
> 
> What are your thoughts and what's the correlation between TRT/cycling and IGF-1? Thanks!!!!


 What is your age? Are you overweight? Need more data.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is it safe/responsible to stay in the 500-600 IGF 1 range for a longer period, say 8-12 months to help speed up healing of niggling injuries?


 1 year is probably fine, long-term, probably a bad idea. The longer you stay at that high IGF state, the higher risk you will also feed a cancer, but the cancer has to happen first. Its likely safe for a year. Keep an eye on blood sugar.


----------



## ElChapo

squeezemyhernia said:


> Hey @ElChapo - I have been on a 5 year BnC and the mrs wants a baby. What protocol should I follow? do you have one that has a high success rate? I am really worried that it will not be possible as I have never taken HCG, however when I used to cycle I always recovered no problems


 Its possible, HMG is the best bet. I have seen severely suppressed blast and cruisers birth kids, including Bostin Loyd.

Get your hands on legit 1,500 IU hcg per week and 200-220 IU HMG per week. Split in 3 doses together. Some people add 20 mg nolvadex daily to the stack as there is some evidence it may boost fertility further. You can stay on TRT dose testosterone through out this whole fertility cycle. You can buy cheap pregnancy strips on Amazon.

IMPORTANT: Track your partner's cycle, time ejaculation for her 5 day fertility window. That's days 9-14 of her mentrual cycle and the only time she is fertile. Day 1 is the day her period starts. If you have intercourse outside that window, you are wasting time and sperm. "saving up" the sperm for that 5 day window can help as well.

Do me a favor, if and when this works, let me know. Always makes my week.


----------



## 92917

ElChapo said:


> What is your age? Are you overweight? Need more data.


 30. Around 20% bodyfat (working on that), but not overweight.


----------



## ElChapo

Pez189 said:


> 30. Around 20% bodyfat (working on that), but not overweight.


 Definitely higher than normal. I would test hba1c to see if there is any insulin resistance. If there isn't, i wouldn't worry about it too much. Generally, if it's a pituitary adenoma, they are benign. The extra IGF is like having Free HGH as long as its not causing problems like insulin resistance, acromegaly, fatigue etc.


----------



## 92917

ElChapo said:


> Definitely higher than normal. I would test hba1c to see if there is any insulin resistance. If there isn't, i wouldn't worry about it too much. Generally, if it's a pituitary adenoma, they are benign. The extra IGF is like having Free HGH as long as its not causing problems like insulin resistance, acromegaly, fatigue etc.


 Thankyou @ElChapo :thumb


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> 1 year is probably fine, long-term, probably a bad idea. The longer you stay at that high IGF state, the higher risk you will also feed a cancer, but the cancer has to happen first. Its likely safe for a year. Keep an eye on blood sugar.


 Cancer has never been my biggest concern.

Any worries in regard to enlarged jaw, nose etc with those prolonged IGF 1 levels?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Cancer has never been my biggest concern.
> 
> Any worries in regard to enlarged jaw, nose etc with those prolonged IGF 1 levels?


 In a year? Unlikely, but for nagging injuries, i dont see the point of going over 300s, especially if running for a year. 300s can be maintained long-term as well.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Is 2iu of HGH ed in the late 20's useful for injuries , health in general ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Is 2iu of HGH ed in the late 20's useful for injuries , health in general ?


 Depends on your baseline IGF. 2 IU is a replacement dose.


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> That's just genetic. Don't worry so much, hairy high DHT men have been around for millenia and they have been fine. Hairy balding men don't automatically get prostate cancer.
> 
> I suggest relaxing and focusing on general health and enjoying your life. The DHT will not be an issue. What is your exact level?


 my exact level is 6.8 nmol/l (range 0.4-2.5)

doc thought there was a problem with first test so we got it done in ultra sensitive and got these figures

he didnt speak of any issues with high dht and said it can be good for men ?


----------



## zariph

Hello, got some questions that you hopefully are able to answer

-Why do people you Ment, which doses is usually used?

- Why do people use halo? Is it used for same reasons as Ment, and why choose one over another?

- At which point do you think people should consider using insulin?

- should insulin always be used with HGH, and can MK677 be the hgh source while using insulin?

- I know tren has benifits of muscle sparring, but how usefull is it compared to deca in an offseason if goal is to put on muscle while in a surplus. Will 500-750 deca be just as good as 400 tren for this?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> my exact level is 6.8 nmol/l (range 0.4-2.5)
> 
> doc thought there was a problem with first test so we got it done in ultra sensitive and got these figures
> 
> he didnt speak of any issues with high dht and said it can be good for men ?


 Were you on TRT or AAS? Never seen a level that high. There are no known issues, some studies here and there showing positive and negative effects, but nothing conclusive.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hello, got some questions that you hopefully are able to answer
> 
> -Why do people you Ment, which doses is usually used?
> 
> - Why do people use halo? Is it used for same reasons as Ment, and why choose one over another?
> 
> - At which point do you think people should consider using insulin?
> 
> - should insulin always be used with HGH, and can MK677 be the hgh source while using insulin?
> 
> - I know tren has benifits of muscle sparring, but how usefull is it compared to deca in an offseason if goal is to put on muscle while in a surplus. Will 500-750 deca be just as good as 400 tren for this?


 Been a while since i read up on Ment (no personal experience), but friends have ran it and they liked it. Very potent, but it's a progestin, so it may cause gyno like trenbolone in some users. People are always looking for the next best anabolic steroid, i like to recommend the basic stacks and a focus on the important fundamentals (caloric surplus, progressive overload, rest/recovery). Not sure about doses anymore since i forgot what was usually taken, but if i recall correctly, it's very potent, so doses are pretty tame compared to other AAS.

Halo is supposed to increase aggression and power. I was not impressed, but some powerlifters swear by it.

Insulin should only be used by advanced bodybuilders who already have a solid level of musculature and are trying to get to that freak level of mass and development. You need to be extremely careful as you can end up in the hospital and even dead in a hypoglycemic coma. It's no joke and not worth it for most people. Most guys don't want to be big enough to ever need insulin. It should be used with HGH for their combined synergistic effect. MK677 could possibly be used, although i would rather stack it with metformin since they are both milder versions of insulin/HGH. This is experimental territory and all theoretical though.

In real practice, trenbolone is not that much more potent than deca/nandrolone. I would say MG per MG they will work almost as well as each other. Tren dries you out more which gives you more 3D look and the appearance of more muscle/fat loss. Some guys respond much more to either compound. Some guys get crazy results from trenbolone and others not so much, only way to find out is to experiment.


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> Been a while since i read up on Ment (no personal experience), but friends have ran it and they liked it. Very potent, but it's a progestin, so it may cause gyno like trenbolone in some users. People are always looking for the next best anabolic steroid, i like to recommend the basic stacks and a focus on the important fundamentals (caloric surplus, progressive overload, rest/recovery). Not sure about doses anymore since i forgot what was usually taken, but if i recall correctly, it's very potent, so doses are pretty tame compared to other AAS.
> 
> Halo is supposed to increase aggression and power. I was not impressed, but some powerlifters swear by it.
> 
> Insulin should only be used by advanced bodybuilders who already have a solid level of musculature and are trying to get to that freak level of mass and development. You need to be extremely careful as you can end up in the hospital and even dead in a hypoglycemic coma. It's no joke and not worth it for most people. Most guys don't want to be big enough to ever need insulin. It should be used with HGH for their combined synergistic effect. MK677 could possibly be used, although i would rather stack it with metformin since they are both milder versions of insulin/HGH. This is experimental territory and all theoretical though.
> 
> In real practice, trenbolone is not that much more potent than deca/nandrolone. I would say MG per MG they will work almost as well as each other. Tren dries you out more which gives you more 3D look and the appearance of more muscle/fat loss. Some guys respond much more to either compound. Some guys get crazy results from trenbolone and others not so much, only way to find out is to experiment.


 @ElChapo do you still blast, use orals or 19 nors etc? Worried about the long term damage to health etc?


----------



## Whoremoan1

ElChapo said:


> Were you on TRT or AAS? Never seen a level that high. There are no known issues, some studies here and there showing positive and negative effects, but nothing conclusive.


 test >52.0 nmol/l
free test >2000 pmol/l
SHBG 11 nmol/l (range - 17-66)
oestradiol 97 pmol/l (range <150)
DHT 6.8 nmol/l (range 0.4-2.5)
prolactin 21 mIU/l (range 45-375)
progest 4.4 nmol (range <4.1)

these are the others i tested

was on 500mg test and 400mg eq

and yeh its always been high, im extremely hairy on the body but lost most of the hair head by 22

the more i read on it the more it makes sense, most of it is positives for bodybuilding... aside prostate and i would definetly not be keen to have that checked ever


----------



## Mickstar

Hi mate , im running 600mg of test and currently on 4th week of my bulk. I'm gonna run this for 14 weeks, i was thinking about adding an oral towards the end of the cycle to continue improvements, what oral would you advise.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

should blood donors take iron supplements after each blood donation ? (if their ferritin under 30)


----------



## stewedw

Best source of vitamin d in supplement form and best all round multi vit (UK)

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo do you still blast, use orals or 19 nors etc? Worried about the long term damage to health etc?


 No, as stated before, i have built all the mass/strength i could ever want. I just maintain. I have absolutely zero concerns over long term health as i do not blast or use any AAS besides natural testosterone at physiological dosages.

The main cause of AAS induced damage is uncontrolled high BP and atherogenic and heart structural changing effects of high doses of AAS and synthetic forms of AAS (tren/win/etc).


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> test >52.0 nmol/l
> free test >2000 pmol/l
> SHBG 11 nmol/l (range - 17-66)
> oestradiol 97 pmol/l (range <150)
> DHT 6.8 nmol/l (range 0.4-2.5)
> prolactin 21 mIU/l (range 45-375)
> progest 4.4 nmol (range <4.1)
> 
> these are the others i tested
> 
> was on 500mg test and 400mg eq
> 
> and yeh its always been high, im extremely hairy on the body but lost most of the hair head by 22
> 
> the more i read on it the more it makes sense, most of it is positives for bodybuilding... aside prostate and i would definetly not be keen to have that checked ever


 Well no s**t DHT is over the physiological range. If you are taking excess testosterone, that's more testosterone that gets converted to DHT.


----------



## ElChapo

Mickstar said:


> Hi mate , im running 600mg of test and currently on 4th week of my bulk. I'm gonna run this for 14 weeks, i was thinking about adding an oral towards the end of the cycle to continue improvements, what oral would you advise.


 For best results, run it from cycle start. This means quicker results and better permanent gains in strength and muscle. Running only at the end and beginning are a waste.

I am partial to winstrol and superdrol. Winstrol at 50 mg daily and superdrol at 20 mg daily. 8-12 weeks with liver protection will BLOW you away, period. ( 1000 mg NAC and 250-500 mg TUDCA or UDCA)


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> should blood donors take iron supplements after each blood donation ? (if their ferritin under 30)


 Depends on their baseline ferritin level. If your ferritin is <70, i would likely advise it, but it depends on the dosage, the time, etc. Your question is too broad to answer, the answer would be based on the context and person in question.

If your ferritin is under 30, you should be taking iron before even donating and donation itself is questionable.

If you are having a hard time with controlling HCT on TRT:

1. Switch to gel, they tend to cause less issues, just make sure the dosage is high enough to get your Testosterone to optimal levels.

2. Get sleep study to rule out sleep apnea.

3. if you are overweight, get as lean as possible, this has reversed sleep apnea in many people i know.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Best source of vitamin d in supplement form and best all round multi vit (UK)
> 
> Cheers.


 Always Vitamin D3. Never D2 (inferior form).

Always take with a meal containing fat if you want optimal absorption. People who complain about not getting their levels up from supplementation are often not taking it properly.

Life extension "take two" is excellent. It contains the best forms of most vits/minerals and has won awards from third party lab analysis sites. I used to recommend now foods "true balance" but i believe this may have been discontinued.


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> No, as stated before, i have built all the mass/strength i could ever want. I just maintain. I have absolutely zero concerns over long term health as i do not blast or use any AAS besides natural testosterone at physiological dosages.
> 
> The main cause of AAS induced damage is uncontrolled high BP and atherogenic and heart structural changing effects of high doses of AAS and synthetic forms of AAS (tren/win/etc).


 What dose are you on if u don't mind me asking? And does it maintain u size strength?


----------



## AlexanderClaeys

@El Chapo What are hour thoughts on glycerol? Any real benefits? Recommended dosage?


----------



## Vinny

@El Chapo

Been having back pain for a while, over the past 3 months I've had acupuncture twice and last time cupping done.

Been told my left side is overdeveloped, also been told my lower back is more developed compared to my core so weak core as well.

Anyone got any suggestions?

Did a couple of deadlifts yesterday, felt okay, sore now though.

145kg for 5x5

[IMG alt="Screenshot_20201001_143149.jpg" data-fileid="190161"]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_10/Screenshot_20201001_143149.thumb.jpg.4816312353b37de4370b49d6bf9b3826.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## Hawker90j

What Adex dose would you use when cruising at 300mg sus a week? 1mg taken on day of shot enough?


----------



## Spieren

Vinny said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Been having back pain for a while, over the past 3 months I've had acupuncture twice and last time cupping done.
> 
> Been told my left side is overdeveloped, also been told my lower back is more developed compared to my core so weak core as well.
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions?
> 
> Did a couple of deadlifts yesterday, felt okay, sore now though.
> 
> 145kg for 5x5
> 
> [IMG alt="Screenshot_20201001_143149.jpg" data-fileid="190161"]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_10/Screenshot_20201001_143149.thumb.jpg.4816312353b37de4370b49d6bf9b3826.jpg[/IMG]


 Had similar Bud, actually hurt to breath. I took Naproxen for a couple of days, it cleared up. Still have no idea what it was/is so I'm interested to see what @ElChapo has to say about your post.


----------



## Vinny

Spieren said:


> Had similar Bud, actually hurt to breath. I took Naproxen for a couple of days, it cleared up. Still have no idea what it was/is so I'm interested to see what @ElChapo has to say about your post.
> 
> View attachment 190965


 Looks very simliar pal  Got a doctor call back tomorrow, see if can do anything. I've had acupuncture twice on it over past 3 months but no luck.


----------



## ElChapo

AlexanderClaeys said:


> @El Chapo What are hour thoughts on glycerol? Any real benefits? Recommended dosage?


 No idea


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Been having back pain for a while, over the past 3 months I've had acupuncture twice and last time cupping done.
> 
> Been told my left side is overdeveloped, also been told my lower back is more developed compared to my core so weak core as well.
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions?
> 
> Did a couple of deadlifts yesterday, felt okay, sore now though.
> 
> 145kg for 5x5
> 
> [IMG alt="Screenshot_20201001_143149.jpg" data-fileid="190161"]<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_10/Screenshot_20201001_143149.thumb.jpg.4816312353b37de4370b49d6bf9b3826.jpg[/IMG]


 Most people have weak abdominals and over developed lower back in comparison. You need to incorporate resistance training to your abs with progressive overload. Cable crunches are ideal for this. Do you have any back pain or actual issues you think are related to this?

Most humans are not perfectly symmetrical. Some have bigger muscles/longer limbs on one side, it's very common.


----------



## ElChapo

Hawker90j said:


> What Adex dose would you use when cruising at 300mg sus a week? 1mg taken on day of shot enough?


 That should be enough, 110-250 pmol/L or 30-70 pg/mL is a good general range. It's usually better to have it in the higher range for health/mood/libido, but everyone is different and some feel better and perform better in the bedroom with lower end estradiol. Trial and error is your friend. 1 mg adex per week for 300 mg is a reasonable dosage. You could do 150 mg sust+0.5 mg adex x 2 per week. You can go by feeling and/or lab work.


----------



## ElChapo

Spieren said:


> Had similar Bud, actually hurt to breath. I took Naproxen for a couple of days, it cleared up. Still have no idea what it was/is so I'm interested to see what @ElChapo has to say about your post.
> 
> View attachment 190965


 Sounds/looks like muscle spasm or knots. Deep massage and some rest, magnesium/electrolytes (pedialyte) are some solutions to this issue. Some have good results from "myofascial release"


----------



## TALBOTL

@El Chapo

hope all is well sir in view of the current climate

do you have any experience/knowledge of PQQ I'm thinking of implementing it at 20mg ED or even just after a taxing session ie legs or heavy push/pull, looks on the surface from what I've read to be a good addition in terms of assisting with antioxidant & inflammation.

Cheers


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Been a while since i read up on Ment (no personal experience), but friends have ran it and they liked it. Very potent, but it's a progestin, so it may cause gyno like trenbolone in some users. People are always looking for the next best anabolic steroid, i like to recommend the basic stacks and a focus on the important fundamentals (caloric surplus, progressive overload, rest/recovery). Not sure about doses anymore since i forgot what was usually taken, but if i recall correctly, it's very potent, so doses are pretty tame compared to other AAS.
> 
> Halo is supposed to increase aggression and power. I was not impressed, but some powerlifters swear by it.
> 
> Insulin should only be used by advanced bodybuilders who already have a solid level of musculature and are trying to get to that freak level of mass and development. You need to be extremely careful as you can end up in the hospital and even dead in a hypoglycemic coma. It's no joke and not worth it for most people. Most guys don't want to be big enough to ever need insulin. It should be used with HGH for their combined synergistic effect. MK677 could possibly be used, although i would rather stack it with metformin since they are both milder versions of insulin/HGH. This is experimental territory and all theoretical though.
> 
> In real practice, trenbolone is not that much more potent than deca/nandrolone. I would say MG per MG they will work almost as well as each other. Tren dries you out more which gives you more 3D look and the appearance of more muscle/fat loss. Some guys respond much more to either compound. Some guys get crazy results from trenbolone and others not so much, only way to find out is to experiment.


 Thx for detailed answer as alawys!

Wierd question, but do you have any experience stacking winny+dbol? Will this work if running 30mg dbol 20mg win + some test? Or you rather run them individually?

Whats your general recommendations for rest days - how many you think is best for most guys? Any difference in amount of rest days for bodybuilding vs powerlifting?


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo I am debating trying primo solo for hrt. Do you have any experience regarding this?

dosages, life without estrogen, sex drive etc?

thanks in advance


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo i remember you saying that t4 is lìnked to wound healing and that HGH converts t3 to t4. Is there any point in supplementing with t4 on top of HGH for injury recovery?

Also, is it a bad idea to be in a slight calorie deficit when trying to recover from an injury?


----------



## Pancake'

Would morning cardio negatively impact lifting later on in the day?


----------



## ElChapo

TALBOTL said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> hope all is well sir in view of the current climate
> 
> do you have any experience/knowledge of PQQ I'm thinking of implementing it at 20mg ED or even just after a taxing session ie legs or heavy push/pull, looks on the surface from what I've read to be a good addition in terms of assisting with antioxidant & inflammation.
> 
> Cheers


 Seems legit enough to try https://examine.com/supplements/pyrroloquinoline-quinone/

But remember, that post-exercise inflammation is generally a good thing that is part of the adaptation to exercise. Some studies have shown negative effects from antioxidants and anti-inflammatory compounds on training results.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx for detailed answer as alawys!
> 
> Wierd question, but do you have any experience stacking winny+dbol? Will this work if running 30mg dbol 20mg win + some test? Or you rather run them individually?
> 
> Whats your general recommendations for rest days - how many you think is best for most guys? Any difference in amount of rest days for bodybuilding vs powerlifting?


 It's a wash. Generally, total mg of AAS is what dictates the results (on top of training/nutrition/recovery). I stay away from dbol as it can flare up gyno, lots of bloat/water weight. It's worth a shot if you want to try it on yourself though, but stacking compounds like that has limited if no effect in my opinion.

Rest days really depends on the type of training you are doing. For very heavy - lower rep compound exercises like deadlift and squats, you can sometimes need a whole week before your CNS will be back to 100%, but if you are training at a higher rep range for volume, you can get away with a day of rest. It's all relative. Smaller muscles like abs and biceps, recover faster and can be hit more often.


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo I am debating trying primo solo for hrt. Do you have any experience regarding this?
> 
> dosages, life without estrogen, sex drive etc?
> 
> thanks in advance


 As far as i know, it's a DHT derivative which means you won't be getting estrogen AND there are other metabolites from testosterone besides DHT and estrogen that are more obscure but may be important for other functions we don't yet know about. Low E2 will increase risk of cardiovascular and joint disease. It can also negatively affect erections and libido.

As an experiment, i wouldn't mind trying it, but it's likely not a good idea long term. I have ran trenbolone as TRT and it worked very well (good mood and good libido/strong erections, great pump etc). Trenbolone seems to have estrogenic effects which have been documented in research, but long-term safety is not something we can count on.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo i remember you saying that t4 is lìnked to wound healing and that HGH converts t3 to t4. Is there any point in supplementing with t4 on top of HGH for injury recovery?
> 
> Also, is it a bad idea to be in a slight calorie deficit when trying to recover from an injury?


 HGH makes your body convert more T4 to T3.

I would expect minimal benefit from adding T4. Vitamin C+Zinc stack+complete rest will have a more significant and important effect on wound healing. I would at least hit maintenance calories as you don't want the body in a catabolic state, which is the opposite of wound healing/tissue building.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Would morning cardio negatively impact lifting later on in the day?


 Depends on the intensity. Very light cardio like walking or a very light jog (less than 25 mins) should not have a negative effect. The issue with cardio is that it can burn glycogen stores (reducing muscle strength/energy) and can tax your CNS (if you are doing sprints or very intense cardio); this can negatively effect strength training.


----------



## Xyz12

ElChapo said:


> As an experiment, i wouldn't mind trying it, but it's likely not a good idea long term. I have ran trenbolone as TRT and it worked very well (good mood and good libido/strong erections, great pump etc). Trenbolone seems to have estrogenic effects which have been documented in research, but long-term safety is not something we can count on.


 What dose did you use? And what difference from trt with test did you feel? Was it better running tren only trt Vs test?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> HGH makes your body convert more T4 to T3.
> 
> I would expect minimal benefit from adding T4. Vitamin C+Zinc stack+complete rest will have a more significant and important effect on wound healing. I would at least hit maintenance calories as you don't want the body in a catabolic state, which is the opposite of wound healing/tissue building.


 Yeah I had a feeling that being in a deficit was a bad idea.

Thanks, I'll make sure to stay in maintenance.

Maybe even a slight surplus is not the worst idea?


----------



## ElChapo

Xyz12 said:


> What dose did you use? And what difference from trt with test did you feel? Was it better running tren only trt Vs test?


 More 3D look, erections harder and higher libido than same dose of TRT ( i tried 150-200 mg per week ). I do get gyno flare up on it, which i have reverse many times with Raloxifene. Heart rate/BP and cardiovascular endurance were fine as well, but we don't know the long term ramifications and the gyno catches up to you after a while.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Yeah I had a feeling that being in a deficit was a bad idea.
> 
> Thanks, I'll make sure to stay in maintenance.
> 
> Maybe even a slight surplus is not the worst idea?


 Nope, but maintenance should do the job and won't make you gain any fat.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo adding 10-20mg on TRT (150mg test) for a small cut/recomp good idea?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo adding 10-20mg on TRT (150mg test) for a small cut/recomp good idea?


 You likely won't see any difference. Better off adding 20-50 mg winstrol to TRT.


----------



## Hello32

.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-20mg winny or anavar on TRT for 12 weeks , would it increase RBC much ? I'm at 17.5 and don't want to reach 18.5 with it , can/would it increase of 1 point at that dose? I know that 60mg of anavar made me red as hell.

-Anavar give me bad stomach bloat/bad gaz , and acid reflux . just after the first dose I have those sides.

If I get Pharma anavar can it be different ? or it's really the oxan that give me these sides and not the quality/the way it has been product.

-I think it's time to try HGH , I do have a bad shoulder pain that doesn't go away even after good rest and TB500 , I wanted to try HGH for a long time and think it's time and maybe it will help the injury.

Should I take 2iu ED before bed , or 4iu M/W/F better?

thank you


----------



## stewedw

@El Chapo I've seen a few threads regarding people peeing more frequently on cycle, others asking if their prostate is enlarged as they suffer erectile dysfunction when on cycle.

Ian this common? Ie Ed and enlarged prostate. Of so, will lower the dose, using and ai or ending the cycle reduce the size or make it return to normal?

Also, some people (me) when running trt or test up to 300mg a week with no ai are like a dog with two dciks. Add some winny and I'm insatiable. Add more test or another compound and I'm "Meh" when it comes to sex, I've got to think about it or get in the mood to become fully erect. I also feel when bulking I'm less interested in sex.

For example I'm 224lbs last Monday, happy but not wanting sex. Had sex, performed well, no complaints. Three days later and I'm 217lbs. Feel fine. Hammer the gym, eat more and carry on adding weights to all my sets and lifts but feel bloated in the abdomen and no libido. Porn doesn't make a difference. If I allow my Monday Thursday jab of 350mg test to relax to Monday then say Sat, Sun then I'm waking during the night morning wood style.

Any feedback or pointers welcome. I'm planning on bloods in two weeks regardless but this evening I took 100mg cialis and struggled 60 mins and two hours later to even work up to erect, let alone give a fk. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> My suggestions
> 
> 1. Get the Free T4 to 18-22.
> 
> 2. Wean off the SSRI
> 
> 3. If residual symptoms persist, add 5-10 mcg T3.


 12 weeks ainfxw she chucked the meds cold turkey. First two week were ropey. Sick, tired not in control of her thoughts. Since then though she's started back the gym with a program she wrote herself, started to cook (she previous did two dishes) cleans the house more often, hasn't said she is tired once, decorated the bedroom and although she is very overweight 14-15stone 5ft7 so should be 11-12 max, anyway libido is back and general happy and positive eminus the usual ups and downs of life we all go through.

What's th enxt step? Carry on the weight loss or have a blood test done now she's two to three months off the meds? Cheers ago, so fsr so good. Very proud of her.


----------



## SlinMeister

How would you rate the table in attach? Do you think that it can be accurate?

It's based on Broderick Chavez ideas...


----------



## Vince the Mince

@El Chapo

Is there any alternative to the standard 500mg test cycle for new users that doesn't require e2 management? Like replacement dosage test plus a dht or similar?


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapo May I ask you about HCG? Does it interfere with LH secretion?

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/69/1/170/2652183?redirectedFrom=fulltext

((We conclude that an ultrashort loop feedback mechanism for LH on its own secretion does not exist in humans, as assessed by the present protocol.))

I have read here that it doesn't, what do you think ?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -20mg winny or anavar on TRT for 12 weeks , would it increase RBC much ? I'm at 17.5 and don't want to reach 18.5 with it , can/would it increase of 1 point at that dose? I know that 60mg of anavar made me red as hell.
> 
> -Anavar give me bad stomach bloat/bad gaz , and acid reflux . just after the first dose I have those sides.
> 
> If I get Pharma anavar can it be different ? or it's really the oxan that give me these sides and not the quality/the way it has been product.
> 
> -I think it's time to try HGH , I do have a bad shoulder pain that doesn't go away even after good rest and TB500 , I wanted to try HGH for a long time and think it's time and maybe it will help the injury.
> 
> Should I take 2iu ED before bed , or 4iu M/W/F better?
> 
> thank you


 A lot of Anavar is actually dbol. You can buy a labmax test kit to confirm that anavar is anavar and not winstrol or dbol.

Is the shoulder pain in the front where the shoulder meets the pectoral? You need to identify exactly what kind of injury or issue you have. Shoulder impingement is the most common i see in lifters. It's caused by too much pressing and not enough pulling movements, creating a muscle imbalance that leads to chronic pain. It is easily reversible. Also how long did you take a rest for the shoulder?

I would not go the HGH route yet, because it won't work for certain problems. need to identify the issue first.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @El Chapo I've seen a few threads regarding people peeing more frequently on cycle, others asking if their prostate is enlarged as they suffer erectile dysfunction when on cycle.
> 
> Ian this common? Ie Ed and enlarged prostate. Of so, will lower the dose, using and ai or ending the cycle reduce the size or make it return to normal?
> 
> Also, some people (me) when running trt or test up to 300mg a week with no ai are like a dog with two dciks. Add some winny and I'm insatiable. Add more test or another compound and I'm "Meh" when it comes to sex, I've got to think about it or get in the mood to become fully erect. I also feel when bulking I'm less interested in sex.
> 
> For example I'm 224lbs last Monday, happy but not wanting sex. Had sex, performed well, no complaints. Three days later and I'm 217lbs. Feel fine. Hammer the gym, eat more and carry on adding weights to all my sets and lifts but feel bloated in the abdomen and no libido. Porn doesn't make a difference. If I allow my Monday Thursday jab of 350mg test to relax to Monday then say Sat, Sun then I'm waking during the night morning wood style.
> 
> Any feedback or pointers welcome. I'm planning on bloods in two weeks regardless but this evening I took 100mg cialis and struggled 60 mins and two hours later to even work up to erect, let alone give a fk. Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 Well, ED on cycle can be caused by many many things. That's a whole can of worms.

Prostate enlargement will not cause ED. Prostate enlargement can cause frequent urination and it can happen on AAS. Cialis 2.5-5 mg daily will help with the urinary symptoms, we call them "LUTS" in the medical field (Lower urinary tract symptoms). Having low testosterone can actually worse these symptoms, there is a sweet spot. The cialis will also help with the ED if that is an issue. Two birds with one stone.

As you have noticed, high estradiol can actually enhance libido and in studies, men with lower and normal estradiol were more likely to complain about libido than the high estradiol guys. Remember, you're not 15 anymore, you can't expect to walk around hard all the time. You will have good days and bad days. Your circulation and the way your brain is wire is going to be a lot different as an adult. What you are noticing could have something to do with hitting a sweet spot of T and E. High T can also lower libido independent of it's conversion to Estradiol.

You can keep working on your dosage and frequency until you figure out your sweet spot. Anecdotally, i have better results from propionate than the long-esters. For the erections, pycnogenol and light cardio will increase circulation and proven to improve erections. Libido is strongly a mental thing as well and can fluctuate regardless of hormone levels. Just try to relax, it feels nice to be horny all the time, but at the same time, it's not natural and the "Hedonic treadmill" theory means your libido will wane and spike naturally.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> 12 weeks ainfxw she chucked the meds cold turkey. First two week were ropey. Sick, tired not in control of her thoughts. Since then though she's started back the gym with a program she wrote herself, started to cook (she previous did two dishes) cleans the house more often, hasn't said she is tired once, decorated the bedroom and although she is very overweight 14-15stone 5ft7 so should be 11-12 max, anyway libido is back and general happy and positive eminus the usual ups and downs of life we all go through.
> 
> What's th enxt step? Carry on the weight loss or have a blood test done now she's two to three months off the meds? Cheers ago, so fsr so good. Very proud of her.


 Did you do you anything about the Free T4? What is your goal? If she's burning fat, i would continue, dont see a reason to stop. Exercise will naturally improve dopamine/serotonin, it has been shown to be as effective as the depression pills without the nasty side effects in some studies.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> How would you rate the table in attach? Do you think that it can be accurate?
> 
> It's based on Broderick Chavez ideas...
> 
> View attachment 192141


 Garbage.

Medications cannot always be dosed off of weight, especially sex hormones. There are many reasons for this, one of them being that genetic differences in blood enzyme levels affect the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of AAS and sex hormones

That is why you see such huge variations in blood levels on the same AAS dose from one guy to another in blood work, regardless of size. We all know a guy who can take a very small dose of AAS and blow up and it has nothing to do with his size. His genetics will dictate ; how well the AAS are absorbed, how long they stay in the blood stream, how his muscle cells will respond, etc. Size has very little to nothing to do with the dosage.


----------



## ElChapo

Vince the Mince said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Is there any alternative to the standard 500mg test cycle for new users that doesn't require e2 management? Like replacement dosage test plus a dht or similar?


 Yes, i actually prefer this approach in some ways. 200 mg Testosterone propionate + 50 mg winstrol is a solid stack.

Grant it, E2 management is extremely overrated and oftentimes is detrimental to gains and wellbeing/libido/health. Back in the day, E2 management wasn't really a thing and those guys looked and lived great. Most guys overdo the E2 control and oftentimes do not need it, even at moderate doses like 500 mg.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapo May I ask you about HCG? Does it interfere with LH secretion?
> 
> https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/69/1/170/2652183?redirectedFrom=fulltext
> 
> ((We conclude that an ultrashort loop feedback mechanism for LH on its own secretion does not exist in humans, as assessed by the present protocol.))
> 
> I have read here that it doesn't, what do you think ?


 Not sure, but it doesn't matter in most context. What application are you looking to use HCG for and why are you concerned about it's effect on LH. HCG mimicks LH and binds to the receptor having a similar effect.

If it works that way in women, it's very likely to be the same in men. Our bodies are virtually identical as is our response to hormones and drugs.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> A lot of Anavar is actually dbol. You can buy a labmax test kit to confirm that anavar is anavar and not winstrol or dbol.
> 
> Is the shoulder pain in the front where the shoulder meets the pectoral? You need to identify exactly what kind of injury or issue you have. Shoulder impingement is the most common i see in lifters. It's caused by too much pressing and not enough pulling movements, creating a muscle imbalance that leads to chronic pain. It is easily reversible. Also how long did you take a rest for the shoulder?
> 
> I would not go the HGH route yet, because it won't work for certain problems. need to identify the issue first.


 Well it's different this time , I had osteolysis 3 years ago and now my shoulder isnt right placed .

I thought it was tendinitis at first , I didn't train for 2 months and nothing changed , even with the magic TB-500 ( it healed me so fast for tendinitis )

I do pulling a lot , and I'm good at , so it's not the problem.

For the TB-500 , I just took 1 dose of 2.5mg and I get the high hematocrit sides so I stopped so I didnt do a real cycle , do you recommend me to keep on for a month?

Also now I'm sure that TB-500 cause Eosinophilic esophagitis In people or at least certain people.

I took it 5 times In 4 years , and everytime I had the throat swelling like I had a double chin , and I had to spit a lot and could sometimes chock while eating, now I'm 100% sure it's linked to TB-500 and it s increase in white blood cells.. some people I know started TB-500 too and had the same thing , they got checked at the doctor and yes , Eosinophilic esophagitis appeared.

You can also find 1-2 guy on google search who developed this from TB-500 .


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Well it's different this time , I had osteolysis 3 years ago and now my shoulder isnt right placed .
> 
> I thought it was tendinitis at first , I didn't train for 2 months and nothing changed , even with the magic TB-500 ( it healed me so fast for tendinitis )
> 
> I do pulling a lot , and I'm good at , so it's not the problem.
> 
> For the TB-500 , I just took 1 dose of 2.5mg and I get the high hematocrit sides so I stopped so I didnt do a real cycle , do you recommend me to keep on for a month?
> 
> Also now I'm sure that TB-500 cause Eosinophilic esophagitis In people or at least certain people.
> 
> I took it 5 times In 4 years , and everytime I had the throat swelling like I had a double chin , and I had to spit a lot and could sometimes chock while eating, now I'm 100% sure it's linked to TB-500 and it s increase in white blood cells.. some people I know started TB-500 too and had the same thing , they got checked at the doctor and yes , Eosinophilic esophagitis appeared.
> 
> You can also find 1-2 guy on google search who developed this from TB-500 .


 Interesting, that condition is remarkably rare. What part of your shoulder is giving your problems? The front?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Interesting, that condition is remarkably rare. What part of your shoulder is giving your problems? The front?


 Yes , when I do benchpress , push ups , dips it's really hurting.

I have 0 problem doing heavy weighed pull ups , rowing and every other exercices .

I do this kind of small exercices to help blood flow , even with 2 kg it sometimes hurt and I stop.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Yes , when I do benchpress , push ups , dips it's really hurting.
> 
> I have 0 problem doing heavy weighed pull ups , rowing and every other exercices .
> 
> I do this kind of small exercices to help blood flow , even with 2 kg it sometimes hurt and I stop.
> 
> View attachment 192227


 Sounds like impingement, look into face pulls and do those any day you do pressing movements. It will stretch the shoulder and strengthen the imbalanced muscles.


----------



## Djibril

Hello elchapo hope you are doing well.

Are there any supplement in particular you would recomend for a 73 year old. For energy purposes

I told her to have a bloodwork panel done, shes very active for her age, all day doing agricultural work so that aint helping much i guess


----------



## Dute

@ElChapo

Hi Elchapo, firstly thank you for being an incredible wealth of knowledge and taking so much of your time to help everyone on here.

I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction, I'm having libido/ed issues. I've literally never had any real issue on any dose of test or mast. I haven't used many aas apart from test mast and primo. (Using aas around 4years)

I'm taking 150mg of test e weekly (this is my go to dose) I'm assuming its e2 related but could it be too low of a dose of test now I'm heavier? I'm assuming not.

I have low libido, darker under the eyes than usual, really stuffy and have more mucus than usual...I don't have a cold, this has been like this for months. No other symptoms that I can think of.

Nothing has changed lifestyle wise. I came off a higher dose of test and mast as I was having ed issues but they seem to persist even on my normal trt.

I do donate blood but i am on iron tablets as I find this keeps my iron healthy and hct down enough. Could there be anything else wiped out from blood donation perhaps??

Thanks so much for any advice


----------



## SlinMeister

I remember that you like to cycle with:

TestP NPP Winstrol

Let's say that i jump on 700 test 700 npp 700 w

Since Winstrol usually keeps water weight at bay and is a strong dht, is that possible to skip ais 100%?

Since i suffer from puberty gyno, Nolvadex / Raloxifene can help during cycle, or they will limit gains?

Winstrol can work as a sort of Masteron/Serm?


----------



## stuey99

SlinMeister said:


> I remember that you like to cycle with:
> 
> TestP NPP Winstrol
> 
> Let's say that i jump on 700 test 700 npp 700 w
> 
> Since Winstrol usually keeps water weight at bay and is a strong dht, is that possible to skip ais 100%?
> 
> Since i suffer from puberty gyno, Nolvadex / Raloxifene can help during cycle, or they will limit gains?
> 
> Winstrol can work as a sort of Masteron/Serm?


 If your only concern is water weight...then yes, winstrol will help reduce that

If you're prone to gyno then no

Also no if you want to avoid possible reduced sex drive from raised estrogen and prolactin


----------



## delbo

stuey99 said:


> If your only concern is water weight...then yes, winstrol will help reduce that
> 
> If you're prone to gyno then no
> 
> Also no if you want to avoid possible reduced sex drive from raised estrogen and prolactin


 Guys why not let ElChapo answer the questions directly? I know you are only trying to help, but 9 times out of 10 ElChapo comes up with a completely different answer. If the question was directed at the entire UKM forum, it would be posted in its own read lol


----------



## Big Ian

@ElChapo a question regarding test esters.

now I know a lot of people say test is test but I know you're a big proponent of prop in comparison to other esters and anecdotally many have said that prop holds less water and gives better muscle gains.

So can you say why, other than the difference in Ester weight in terms of the muscle gain is prop stronger mg per mg and holds less water weight than other esters?

also, I know you say that twice per week for prop is fine but do you think you would likely see evenless water weight doing daily or EOD injections instead of twice per week?

Thanks


----------



## stuey99

delbo said:


> Guys why not let ElChapo answer the questions directly? I know you are only trying to help, but 9 times out of 10 ElChapo comes up with a completely different answer. If the question was directed at the entire UKM forum, it would be posted in its own read lol


 Why not let the mods do the moderating mate?

El Chapo's not on here that often so I thought I'd let the op know my thoughts...I'm sure he's capable of choosing whether to listen or wait for El Chapo to advise


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Hello elchapo hope you are doing well.
> 
> Are there any supplement in particular you would recomend for a 73 year old. For energy purposes
> 
> I told her to have a bloodwork panel done, shes very active for her age, all day doing agricultural work so that aint helping much i guess


 At that age, i would make sure to optimize hormones that are commonly very low. Testosterone, thyroid (Free T4/Free T3), IGF-1 (growth hormone).

Then, good multivitamin to address any known or unknown deficiencies. Older people tend to eat less/poorer appetite and their GI tract is also not as good at absorbing nutrients, so they can become more easily deficient than someone younger.

Generally, all of that helps a lot and often times the lack of energy is caused by one of the above^ supplements that directly help with energy would just be stims like green tea or coffee. Sometimes CoQ10 can increase energy in older people.

For a female: Low estradiol will cause lack of energy/brain fog and many other symptoms in women. You want estradiol around 550-1100 pmol/L to get the best results and you can add a bit of progesterone via micronized gel capsule or cream applied to the breasts. Dosage for progesterone 100-400 mg daily, Estradiol varies by which type you use, injections are the best, but gels, tablets and patches will also work at the correct dosage.


----------



## delbo

stuey99 said:


> Why not let the mods do the moderating mate?
> 
> El Chapo's not on here that often so I thought I'd let the op know my thoughts...I'm sure he's capable of choosing whether to listen or wait for El Chapo to advise


 AMA 4.0 SUPERCHARGED ft. Stuey99

I bet you're the type of kid who when someone asked the teacher a question in school, you answered.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Elchapo, firstly thank you for being an incredible wealth of knowledge and taking so much of your time to help everyone on here.
> 
> I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction, I'm having libido/ed issues. I've literally never had any real issue on any dose of test or mast. I haven't used many aas apart from test mast and primo. (Using aas around 4years)
> 
> I'm taking 150mg of test e weekly (this is my go to dose) I'm assuming its e2 related but could it be too low of a dose of test now I'm heavier? I'm assuming not.
> 
> I have low libido, darker under the eyes than usual, really stuffy and have more mucus than usual...I don't have a cold, this has been like this for months. No other symptoms that I can think of.
> 
> Nothing has changed lifestyle wise. I came off a higher dose of test and mast as I was having ed issues but they seem to persist even on my normal trt.
> 
> I do donate blood but i am on iron tablets as I find this keeps my iron healthy and hct down enough. Could there be anything else wiped out from blood donation perhaps??
> 
> Thanks so much for any advice


 How recently have you had lab work and what are the numbers for Testosterone, estradiol, ferritin? You can also check thyroid hormone Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine.

Do you take any estrogen blockers or aromatase inhibitors?

If you donate, you need to keep a sharp eye on ferritin. Severe anemia can kill libido and also cause the dark circles under the eyes. I know many who donate regularly walk around with zombie levels of iron/ferritin and they have no idea. It can cause a lot of problems, not just fatigue. Taking iron is often not enough.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I remember that you like to cycle with:
> 
> TestP NPP Winstrol
> 
> Let's say that i jump on 700 test 700 npp 700 w
> 
> Since Winstrol usually keeps water weight at bay and is a strong dht, is that possible to skip ais 100%?
> 
> Since i suffer from puberty gyno, Nolvadex / Raloxifene can help during cycle, or they will limit gains?
> 
> Winstrol can work as a sort of Masteron/Serm?


 Often times, the water retention from androgens is not just from estradiol/estrogen. Androgens can increase sodium resorption and water retention even with 0 estradiol.

On paper, nolva/ralox should hinder gains, but in real life, i have not seen it do anything negative besides some people getting some libido/mood issues on nolvadex.

The three options: 1. Surgical gyno removal 2. taking ralox/nolva during cycle 3. Letting the gyno happen on cycle and reversing it post cycle during cruise or PCT. If you are an avid bodybuilder and have access/can afford surgery, it may be a decent option for you.

Winstrol does seem to have some possible anti-estrogen effects on paper, as for working as a serm/anti-gyno, i don't think so but it's possible as it's a DHT based AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Big Ian said:


> @ElChapo a question regarding test esters.
> 
> now I know a lot of people say test is test but I know you're a big proponent of prop in comparison to other esters and anecdotally many have said that prop holds less water and gives better muscle gains.
> 
> ( Non-genomic effects are effects from drugs/hormones that happen without needing a "build up". Like how coffee hits you fast, it's a non-genomic effect, it does not rely on gene expression/changes happening over time. Hormones have genomic and non-genomic effects, some are a mystery)
> 
> So can you say why, other than the difference in Ester weight in terms of the muscle gain is prop stronger mg per mg and holds less water weight than other esters?
> 
> also, I know you say that twice per week for prop is fine but do you think you would likely see evenless water weight doing daily or EOD injections instead of twice per week?
> 
> Thanks


 My theory and shot in the dark is that the constantly elevated levels with long esters are having a non-genomic effect on testosterone's effects on sodium and water retention. The sharper peaks from propionate might also have some effect. If you look at the pharmacokinetics of propionate, the peak levels are insanely higher than what you get with longer esters, even after levels build up.

Again, this is really a bro-science anecdote thing on my end. It's just something i and others have noticed. Many people have great results with long esters and can stay leaner/dryer, whereas others will bloat on the long esters even with high water intake/aromatase inhibitors, etc. It's just one of those things.

I'm not sure if you would get more or less water retention. You might even get more with higher frequency because you don't have that peak and trough effect, but all of this is 100% theory and at the end of the day, if it doesn't apply to you, then i wouldn't be concerned about it.


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> How recently have you had lab work and what are the numbers for Testosterone, estradiol, ferritin? You can also check thyroid hormone Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine.
> 
> Do you take any estrogen blockers or aromatase inhibitors?
> 
> If you donate, you need to keep a sharp eye on ferritin. Severe anemia can kill libido and also cause the dark circles under the eyes. I know many who donate regularly walk around with zombie levels of iron/ferritin and they have no idea. It can cause a lot of problems, not just fatigue. Taking iron is often not enough.


 Thanks @ElChapo

I'll get bloods done asap.

Yes my ferritin was low on my last bloods, what do you recommend? Higher dosed iron?

No i don't take an ai on 150mg test. I've never needed to in the past.... I did take half an anatrozole but it just shrivelled the fella up and seemed to really tank the libido even more. I guess the bloods will reveal more.

Cheers very much


----------



## stuey99

delbo said:


> AMA 4.0 SUPERCHARGED ft. Stuey99
> 
> I bet you're the type of kid who when someone asked the teacher a question in school, you answered.


 Not at all mate

I've asked numerous questions on here and received answers from others before el chapo responded and was very grateful for their input

Judging by the childishness of your comment I'm guessing you're not actually as concerned about the integrity of this thread as you claim to be

I am tho...so I'll just leave it at that


----------



## Luke Cage

@El Chapo do you have any idea why Oral steroids irritate the gut? And also how to combat it? I have tried after food but that doesn't help much. I have heard kefir can help. Many thanks.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo hope all is well.

I cant find any solid evidence or that much information on jabbing frequency when using test e only peoples experiences. Many say once per week is fine due to the ester but some say about peaks and troughs and stable levels when jabbing twice a week or three times a week, ive even been on steroidcalc and that confirms more injections equals stabler levels, just curious why I cant find any studies on it

The theory I keep finding is an obvious one about the body produces test every day not once per week so for stabler bloods its best to jab atleast twice a week for more stable levels mainly rbc etc.

Whats your views on this, is there any evidence on it or just one of those things you got to see for yourself? Currently on 100mg test e a week self trt.

Many thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Thanks @ElChapo
> 
> I'll get bloods done asap.
> 
> Yes my ferritin was low on my last bloods, what do you recommend? Higher dosed iron?
> 
> No i don't take an ai on 150mg test. I've never needed to in the past.... I did take half an anatrozole but it just shrivelled the fella up and seemed to really tank the libido even more. I guess the bloods will reveal more.
> 
> Cheers very much


 What was the ferritin number? It takes a lot of iron for a long time to bring it back up, i'm talking +3 months or more depending on the severity.


----------



## ElChapo

Luke Cage said:


> @El Chapo do you have any idea why Oral steroids irritate the gut? And also how to combat it? I have tried after food but that doesn't help much. I have heard kefir can help. Many thanks.


 Most people don't have issues, oral AAS can cause cholestasis which is basically impaired bile flow, this could cause digestive problems and is also the main cause of liver toxicity. TUDCA and UDCA directly prevent this problem. It might help with any GI issues you get as would taking the oral AAS after your biggest meal.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Hi @ElChapo hope all is well.
> 
> I cant find any solid evidence or that much information on jabbing frequency when using test e only peoples experiences. Many say once per week is fine due to the ester but some say about peaks and troughs and stable levels when jabbing twice a week or three times a week, ive even been on steroidcalc and that confirms more injections equals stabler levels, just curious why I cant find any studies on it
> 
> The theory I keep finding is an obvious one about the body produces test every day not once per week so for stabler bloods its best to jab atleast twice a week for more stable levels mainly rbc etc.
> 
> Whats your views on this, is there any evidence on it or just one of those things you got to see for yourself? Currently on 100mg test e a week self trt.
> 
> Many thanks.


 It entirely depends on your genetics. Some people will burn thorough the T very fast, others can get away with once weekly. Remember that steroidcalc is using averages/medians from studies, but everyone is different. That is why you can't guess what your T level will be just by the dosage, because we all metabolize at different rates. Even the injection site affects this ( Deltoids absorb faster and peak higher than glutes)

Testosterone varies signficantly from morning to night time and even after eating, it's never super stable. Stress, diet and sleep will also cause big fluctuations. I always recommend twice weekly with long esters unless you are a slow metabolizer, but this is for HRT patients not for bodybuilding. In bodybuilding, it matters a lot less. I would do 50 mg x 2 weekly in your shoes, aiming for 700-1000 ng/dL and 20-40 Free Testosterone in American units and 20-60 pg mL Estradiol ( also American units)


----------



## Passerby

Hello there @ElChapo

I've run out of Arimidex, but I have Clomid handy. For the purposes of reducing the risk of gyno but still getting good gains/not feeling terrible etc., would it be possible to substitute Clomid for Arimidex?

The cycle I have in mind is 600mg Test E/week for week 1-14 and 300mg Tren E/week for week 6-14.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> What was the ferritin number? It takes a lot of iron for a long time to bring it back up, i'm talking +3 months or more depending on the severity.


 Thanks Elchapo,

It was 15 ug/L so pretty low, that was a while ago though...I'm only taking 17mg of iron daily, perhaps this isn't enough?

I've booked another full blood test including everything you mentioned so I'll let you know the results as soon as I can.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> It entirely depends on your genetics. Some people will burn thorough the T very fast, others can get away with once weekly. Remember that steroidcalc is using averages/medians from studies, but everyone is different. That is why you can't guess what your T level will be just by the dosage, because we all metabolize at different rates. Even the injection site affects this ( Deltoids absorb faster and peak higher than glutes)
> 
> Testosterone varies signficantly from morning to night time and even after eating, it's never super stable. Stress, diet and sleep will also cause big fluctuations. I always recommend twice weekly with long esters unless you are a slow metabolizer, but this is for HRT patients not for bodybuilding. In bodybuilding, it matters a lot less. I would do 50 mg x 2 weekly in your shoes, aiming for 700-1000 ng/dL and 20-40 Free Testosterone in American units and 20-60 pg mL Estradiol ( also American units)


 Thank you for the detailed response much appreciated, I shall go back to Sunday/Wednesday dosing then. I was getting 37nmol 48 hours after jab of 120mg test e once a week and e2 has always been 104-120nmol 48 hours (unsure of american values) this is why I dropped my test to 100mg to get it closer to natural rsnge as possible being 31nmol here in the UK to get true trt even though I'm self trt. I havent had trough reading as always felt fine when comes to next jab and my test being 37nmol shouldn't crash 5 days later hence no trough readings

I'm using delts once a week with 0.5inch 30g slin pins with no issues at all, so each delt gets hit once every other week to avoid scar tissue, would scar tissue be a major concern with such small needle going back to twice a week so each delt gets hit once a week ? Thinking of using quads with the 0.5inch as my legs are lean with hardly no fat around quads and seen another member using 0.5inch in quads with no issues, would you recommend this or atleast 1 inch for quads?

With going back to twice a week dosing when would be best to get bloods done for levels, before my second pin of the week?

I've always done once a week jabs so unsure on twice a week protocol

Many thanks


----------



## Luke Cage

ElChapo said:


> Most people don't have issues, oral AAS can cause cholestasis which is basically impaired bile flow, this could cause digestive problems and is also the main cause of liver toxicity. TUDCA and UDCA directly prevent this problem. It might help with any GI issues you get as would taking the oral AAS after your biggest meal.


 @El Chapo much appreciated. Never used to have this problem when I was younger but in my 40s now.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Thanks Elchapo,
> 
> It was 15 ug/L so pretty low, that was a while ago though...I'm only taking 17mg of iron daily, perhaps this isn't enough?
> 
> I've booked another full blood test including everything you mentioned so I'll let you know the results as soon as I can.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


 Holy hell, definitely not. You need more like 100 mg daily for 12 weeks just to move that. It takes time and a lot of iron. Get iron bisglycinate (can be purchased on amazon cheap) , the regular stuff will tear up your stomach and GI tract after a while. ( Ferrous sulfate)

The low iron can cause lower dopamine, this means less motivation and less libido and of course fatigue and weakness.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Thank you for the detailed response much appreciated, I shall go back to Sunday/Wednesday dosing then. I was getting 37nmol 48 hours after jab of 120mg test e once a week and e2 has always been 104-120nmol 48 hours (unsure of american values) this is why I dropped my test to 100mg to get it closer to natural rsnge as possible being 31nmol here in the UK to get true trt even though I'm self trt. I havent had trough reading as always felt fine when comes to next jab and my test being 37nmol shouldn't crash 5 days later hence no trough readings
> 
> I'm using delts once a week with 0.5inch 30g slin pins with no issues at all, so each delt gets hit once every other week to avoid scar tissue, would scar tissue be a major concern with such small needle going back to twice a week so each delt gets hit once a week ? Thinking of using quads with the 0.5inch as my legs are lean with hardly no fat around quads and seen another member using 0.5inch in quads with no issues, would you recommend this or atleast 1 inch for quads?
> 
> With going back to twice a week dosing when would be best to get bloods done for levels, before my second pin of the week?
> 
> I've always done once a week jabs so unsure on twice a week protocol
> 
> Many thanks


 Not at all, the tiny needles already significantly limit any scar tissue formation, rotating will further protect against this issue. You're good to go.

I don't usually recommend quads because there are ton of nerves/blood vessels in the area, that means a higher chance of getting PIP and hitting a painful spot. We also use our legs a lot, so if you get PIP, it's going to suck a lot more. Generally, i recommend lateral deltoids or ventrogluteal as the ideal injection sites. I generally recommend getting tested before the second injection, yes. Make sure to wait 4 weeks between any dosage changes so that the change has time to take effect.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Not at all, the tiny needles already significantly limit any scar tissue formation, rotating will further protect against this issue. You're good to go.
> 
> I don't usually recommend quads because there are ton of nerves/blood vessels in the area, that means a higher chance of getting PIP and hitting a painful spot. We also use our legs a lot, so if you get PIP, it's going to suck a lot more. Generally, i recommend lateral deltoids or ventrogluteal as the ideal injection sites. I generally recommend getting tested before the second injection, yes. Make sure to wait 4 weeks between any dosage changes so that the change has time to take effect.


 Brilliant, thank you that's what il do, il try ventroglute and see how i go, would a half inch be to small? Read that vg should be atleast one inch?

Many thanks


----------



## Hosi

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant, thank you that's what il do, il try ventroglute and see how i go, would a half inch be to small? Read that vg should be atleast one inch?
> 
> Many thanks


 This should help:

https://trthub.com/ventrogluteal-glute-injection/


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant, thank you that's what il do, il try ventroglute and see how i go, would a half inch be to small? Read that vg should be atleast one inch?
> 
> Many thanks


 Depends on your leanness, worst case scenario, it would go SQ, which is not really an issue but can increase risk of PIP sometimes


----------



## tomm7

Took Var @60mgED and 500mg of test PW for 6 weeks before doing bloods. Mostly the results where as expected but liver values seem way above what research led be to think I would see with Var, my ALP is normal higher up the range, genetics I think, ALP @ 167.00 IU/L and ALT 460.00 IU/L. HDL took a big hit and but LDL stayed within range. Is this usual or down to bunk/fake tabs?


----------



## Pancake'

If training upper body, what should be trained first from back and chest in the case of energy preservation and getting the most out of sets. should you bench or row first? split is free weight based.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Depends on your leanness, worst case scenario, it would go SQ, which is not really an issue but can increase risk of PIP sometimes


 I think il opt for a 1 inch if I open that area up to be on the safe side, id say im around 13%, can manage half inch in delts fine. Always get cautious when opening up new sites.

Whats your thoughts on naringin on lowering rbc, hct on trt doses to avoid donating blood on trt?

I used to donate every 3 months, nuked my ferritin to 12 that way. So opted for once every 6 months but my rbc gets to high leaving that long, thats why I'm lowering my trt doses to my mimic my natural t and shouldn't need to donate as im only using as much my body would produce naturally (hence the original question on jabbing frequency) ive been researching naringin to help while on trt that would leave me donating before a blast and just after then to keep everything in check. All my other bloods hdl/lol cholesterol, liver, kidneys, wbc etc all fine.

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

tomm7 said:


> Took Var @60mgED and 500mg of test PW for 6 weeks before doing bloods. Mostly the results where as expected but liver values seem way above what research led be to think I would see with Var, my ALP is normal higher up the range, genetics I think, ALP @ 167.00 IU/L and ALT 460.00 IU/L. HDL took a big hit and but LDL stayed within range. Is this usual or down to bunk/fake tabs?


 Do you drink any alcohol or take any medication? or at least close to lab work day? Intense training can increase these enzymes but not to 460. That is alarming.

I generally like to recommend labmax kit to test anavar because it's often actually winstrol/dbol. Also it's possible the tabs are overdosed which is pretty easy to do when working with mg of powder. So you have multiple possible causes here. Were you running any TUDCA and/or NAC? I always recommend these when using oral AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> If training upper body, what should be trained first from back and chest in the case of energy preservation and getting the most out of sets. should you bench or row first? split is free weight based.


 I would train the muscle you want to prioritize first. If your chest is smaller and you are looking for better gains there, i would train chest first so you have the most energy and strength/ vice versa.

If this has to do with the shoulder pain/impingement, then i would just do face pulls after each pressing/chest day


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> I think il opt for a 1 inch if I open that area up to be on the safe side, id say im around 13%, can manage half inch in delts fine. Always get cautious when opening up new sites.
> 
> Whats your thoughts on naringin on lowering rbc, hct on trt doses to avoid donating blood on trt?
> 
> I used to donate every 3 months, nuked my ferritin to 12 that way. So opted for once every 6 months but my rbc gets to high leaving that long, thats why I'm lowering my trt doses to my mimic my natural t and shouldn't need to donate as im only using as much my body would produce naturally (hence the original question on jabbing frequency) ive been researching naringin to help while on trt that would leave me donating before a blast and just after then to keep everything in check. All my other bloods hdl/lol cholesterol, liver, kidneys, wbc etc all fine.
> 
> Many thanks


 Wouldn't count on it but some people have success with narigin, it can affect metabolism of certain drugs though. Elevated RBC is usually caused by sleep apnea and genetics. I have seen sleep apnea reversed with signficant fat loss, but the bipap machine will also stop the RBC increase if that is the cause. Generally, keeping your Free T and Total T close to natural ranges will also help. Some guys have unnaturally high Free T on TRT. Also switching to T cream or gel does the job for many patients, but becareful with transference to family and pets. Sometimes jab frequency increase can help.

How high does your HCT/RBC get? and are you making sure to be very well hydrated the day before and day of blood work? Even mild dehydration can cause an artificial elevation in these labs because the blood will be more concentrated.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

-Would you take HGH 5 days on 2 days off , or EOD?

-For injury/good sleep , would 3iu 5days a week good enough ?

-Is fat loss boost noticeable on this dosage?

-Since it suppresses our own production , how long can it take to recover ? is it possible to not recover entirely and produce less HGH than before?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Wouldn't count on it but some people have success with narigin, it can affect metabolism of certain drugs though. Elevated RBC is usually caused by sleep apnea and genetics. I have seen sleep apnea reversed with signficant fat loss, but the bipap machine will also stop the RBC increase if that is the cause. Generally, keeping your Free T and Total T close to natural ranges will also help. Some guys have unnaturally high Free T on TRT. Also switching to T cream or gel does the job for many patients, but becareful with transference to family and pets. Sometimes jab frequency increase can help.
> 
> How high does your HCT/RBC get? and are you making sure to be very well hydrated the day before and day of blood work? Even mild dehydration can cause an artificial elevation in these labs because the blood will be more concentrated.


 This is why I've dropped to 100mg as 120mg gave me 37nmol which is to high for trt and contributing to high rbc. Il avoid the creams as can be abit of a pain applying it every day and dont mind increasing jabbing frequency.

Highest its 54 hct and 181 rbc on 150mg hence dropping to 120 now to 100mg Thats my down fall i think is dehydration, I drink 4l water a day but go for bloods at 8am so quite possibly dehydration from the night before as I sleep for 9 hours a night, I drink a litre before I go though. Hence wanting to get everything right so mimicking what my body would do naturally as possible. So that leaves me donating after a cycle as donating nukes my ferritin so going back to trt levels give it time to recover again before my next cycle. Next time I do bloods il go around 10am instead and get a good 2 litres of water in before next time.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> -Would you take HGH 5 days on 2 days off , or EOD?
> 
> -For injury/good sleep , would 3iu 5days a week good enough ?
> 
> -Is fat loss boost noticeable on this dosage?
> 
> -Since it suppresses our own production , how long can it take to recover ? is it possible to not recover entirely and produce less HGH than before?


 1. I would do daily to better mimick natural physiology, some people do 2 days off with success, but there is no real benefit and it won't "stop shut down"

2. Maybe, but that's probably very close to a replacement dose if you calculate it

3. It can be depending on how high or low your natural HGH/IGF is, but remember, HGH does not burn fat directly, you still need caloric deficit. It seems to have a protein sparing/nutrient partitioning effect.

4. HGH does not cause permanent or semi-permanent shutdown like AAS. Recovery happens fairly quickly, but i don't have an exact time frame. I have even seen people with higher numbers than pre-HGH on their IGF months later.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> This is why I've dropped to 100mg as 120mg gave me 37nmol which is to high for trt and contributing to high rbc. Il avoid the creams as can be abit of a pain applying it every day and dont mind increasing jabbing frequency.
> 
> Highest its 54 hct and 181 rbc on 150mg hence dropping to 120 now to 100mg Thats my down fall i think is dehydration, I drink 4l water a day but go for bloods at 8am so quite possibly dehydration from the night before as I sleep for 9 hours a night, I drink a litre before I go though. Hence wanting to get everything right so mimicking what my body would do naturally as possible. So that leaves me donating after a cycle as donating nukes my ferritin so going back to trt levels give it time to recover again before my next cycle. Next time I do bloods il go around 10am instead and get a good 2 litres of water in before next time.


 54 hct isn't too bad, i would try to stay at 52 highest. If you can lose some fat and get very lean, that usually improves or reverses any sleep apnea in many people. The naringin you could also try, as some guys have reported good results.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> 54 hct isn't too bad, i would try to stay at 52 highest. If you can lose some fat and get very lean, that usually improves or reverses any sleep apnea in many people. The naringin you could also try, as some guys have reported good results.


 Thats my aim is 52, 54 is its highest before donating, my problem is hydration before the test I'm edging too so instead of going first thing in morning after sleeping 9 hours il make sure I get 2 litres water in before hand.. Switched this week to split jabs also. I wouldn't say im over weight. Can see outline of abs and obliques id say around 13-14% bf at moment maintaining untill January for my cycle, been using this year to get my trt doses right before I cycle again as planning on self trt for the foreseeable as would like to compete in a few years. I dont think I suffer with sleep apnea as my weight is classed as normal.

I've got some coming should be this week, using swanson naringin but takes over a month to come as its from North USA im from UK and couldn't get pure naringin anywhere else. Is there any supplements it interacts with negatively? Currently using 2000mg fish oil, 3000iu vit d3, 2000mcg vit A, multivitamin, vit k2, 40mg zinc, 500 citrus bergamot and 2.5mg taladafil daily? Ive read possible interactions with prescription medicines but not supplements just wanting to double check


----------



## Baka

@Lloyd H yes , with taladafil


----------



## Rob27

Baka said:


> @Lloyd H yes , with taladafil


 In what way? Only found 2 studies regarding taladafil and grape fruit but doesn't make alot of sense to me to be honest. So many pharmaceutical phrases etc cant really understand it


----------



## Baka

Lloyd H said:


> In what way? Only found 2 studies regarding taladafil and grape fruit but doesn't make alot of sense to me to be honest. So many pharmaceutical phrases etc cant really understand it


 it amplifies the effects


----------



## Rob27

Baka said:


> it amplifies the effects


 Can you elaborate please? Makes the effects of the 2.5 stronger? Would you recommend stopping taladafil to use the naringin or would be 2.5mg taladafil be ok with the naringin?


----------



## Hawker90j

Thanks for the response @El Chapo

final question. Would running 300mg long term provide decent lbm gains? Not a fan of heavy cycles and prefer moderate dosages. Would 300mg still provide muscle gains to an experienced gym goer weighing around 205 pounds?


----------



## Funkyfresh

@El Chapo

What are your thoughts on running a low dose Angiotensin II receptor antagonist on cycle as a protective measure?

Telmisartan seems particularly interesting as it supposedly offers a myriad of other benefits for metabolic health...etc.

Also, it seems these class of drugs may offer some benefit in controlling the elevated RBC and hematocrit increases from androgen use.

I don't typically suffer from high blood pressure normally and I understand that other lifestyle factors (cardio, staying lean, diet...etc) are going to be much more beneficial than popping pills as a long term strategy....but I'd love to know your thoughts on Telmisartan in particular and if you've had much experience with this?

It seems like a very interesting drug beyond just a blood pressure medication that would benefit a lot of bodybuilders or guys using PEDs.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Thats my aim is 52, 54 is its highest before donating, my problem is hydration before the test I'm edging too so instead of going first thing in morning after sleeping 9 hours il make sure I get 2 litres water in before hand.. Switched this week to split jabs also. I wouldn't say im over weight. Can see outline of abs and obliques id say around 13-14% bf at moment maintaining untill January for my cycle, been using this year to get my trt doses right before I cycle again as planning on self trt for the foreseeable as would like to compete in a few years. I dont think I suffer with sleep apnea as my weight is classed as normal.
> 
> I've got some coming should be this week, using swanson naringin but takes over a month to come as its from North USA im from UK and couldn't get pure naringin anywhere else. Is there any supplements it interacts with negatively? Currently using 2000mg fish oil, 3000iu vit d3, 2000mcg vit A, multivitamin, vit k2, 40mg zinc, 500 citrus bergamot and 2.5mg taladafil daily? Ive read possible interactions with prescription medicines but not supplements just wanting to double check


 If you get down to 10% or less bodyfat, it may help. If you already do 4 liters a day, you are likely already decently hydrated.

None of these supplements will interact with each other, but i don't recommend taking that much zinc long-term, your multivitamin should have enough zinc on it's own and oftentimes i suggest taking half the serving of multivitamin since it's mostly excess doses.


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> In what way? Only found 2 studies regarding taladafil and grape fruit but doesn't make alot of sense to me to be honest. So many pharmaceutical phrases etc cant really understand it


 Grapefruit will interact with a huge list of medications. It's actually the naringin if i'm not mistaken that will alter metabolism of many supplements and medications. That's why i said to be weary of it. Naringin and grapefruit might make the tadalafil more powerful by slowing down how quickly your body breaks it down.

At 2.5 mg tadalafil, i don't see the potentiation being a problem, but keep an eye out for signs of tadalafil overdose like headaches, stuffy nose, flu like symptoms, malaise and weird eye effects (pressure feeling, changes in vision and colorvision)


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> If you get down to 10% or less bodyfat, it may help. If you already do 4 liters a day, you are likely already decently hydrated.
> 
> None of these supplements will interact with each other, but i don't recommend taking that much zinc long-term, your multivitamin should have enough zinc on it's own and oftentimes i suggest taking half the serving of multivitamin since it's mostly excess doses.





ElChapo said:


> If you get down to 10% or less bodyfat, it may help. If you already do 4 liters a day, you are likely already decently hydrated.
> 
> None of these supplements will interact with each other, but i don't recommend taking that much zinc long-term, your multivitamin should have enough zinc on it's own and oftentimes i suggest taking half the serving of multivitamin since it's mostly excess doses.


 Brilliant thank you for the advice, would you recommend taking the naringin different time to my supplements? I take my supplements in the morning and taladafil before bed? To decrease the interaction rate would it be easier to either take nargingin with morning supplements or put the taladafil in the morning and naringin before bed so its spaced out far away from each other during the days to avoid the most interaction?

With the zinc i checked and my multivitamin has 5mg of zinc in it. I use nu nutrition for all supplements including my zinc, should I cut the zinc tablets in half so taking 20mg instead of the 40? With multivitamin it will be 25mg instead of 45mg then daily?


----------



## ElChapo

Lloyd H said:


> Brilliant thank you for the advice, would you recommend taking the naringin different time to my supplements? I take my supplements in the morning and taladafil before bed? To decrease the interaction rate would it be easier to either take nargingin with morning supplements or put the taladafil in the morning and naringin before bed so its spaced out far away from each other during the days to avoid the most interaction?
> 
> With the zinc i checked and my multivitamin has 5mg of zinc in it. I use nu nutrition for all supplements including my zinc, should I cut the zinc tablets in half so taking 20mg instead of the 40? With multivitamin it will be 25mg instead of 45mg then daily?


 Well, upon further reading, it's not believe to be naringin that causes most of the grapefruit effect on drug metabolism. It DOES affect drug metabolism, but not the full extent of grapefruit. You could seperate the time you take them to further reduce this effect. Yes, morning/night just like you said.

Yeah, 20 mg is more reasonable.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Took my first injection of HGH yesterday at bedtime , 3iu .

I slept well , but today I was so lethargic that I was yawning every minutes , I then fell asleep for 3 hours in the middle of the day and still feel tired.

Is this the lethargy people complain about on HGH? how can I feel the effects so rapidly ? and does it go away?

-About heart growth on HGH , is it with really high dosage (8+iu/day) for long time , or even 3-4iu for some months can have this effect?

-Does raloxifene reverse HGH gynecomastia ? I read HGH activate PRL receptors without increasing PRL levels and so tamoxifen wasn't useful for it , what s ur opinion?


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Well, upon further reading, it's not believe to be naringin that causes most of the grapefruit effect on drug metabolism. It DOES affect drug metabolism, but not the full extent of grapefruit. You could seperate the time you take them to further reduce this effect. Yes, morning/night just like you said.
> 
> Yeah, 20 mg is more reasonable.


 Brilliant, thank you very much, appreciate your time and advice. Stay safe


----------



## Jordan08

Hi Mate,

Your views on Deca as HRT instead of Test.

Thank you


----------



## arbffgadm100

@ElChapo

Re your recents comments about zinc..

If the upper safe dose is circa 20mg a day, why do some companies (reputable ones like life extensions for example) make 50mg tabs?

Añso, what are the long term risks of zinc overconsumption? A quick tot up of my dietary zinc and supplements puts me at about 60mg daily right now. :confused1:

Many thanks for your time, brother.


----------



## darren.1987

@ElChapo

For TRT with test prop which I've switched to as you recommended it can be better for mood/libido and less water retention, which I have to agree with.

Whats the best dose/frequency to use? I'm currently doing 0.3ml sub q with no PIP issues M/W/F so should be around 90mg per week.

I read on a UK trt website that optimal dosing for prop is 50mg 3 x per week?


----------



## strawberry123

@ElChapo hello mate I'm wondering if you can help with an odd issue I've been having. After eating bigger meals, particularly in the evening not morning with breakfast or lunch, I become very flushed feel a BP spike with almost like hypertension. I get a headache also. I'm currently running 400 primo 200 test 50 winstrol.

any idea what could be causing this?


----------



## ElChapo

Jordan08 said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> Your views on Deca as HRT instead of Test.
> 
> Thank you


 You won't usually get enough estradiol. Estradiol is an essential metabolite of testosterone for heart, brain, skin health and libido/mental health. We also don't know the long-term consequences.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Re your recents comments about zinc..
> 
> If the upper safe dose is circa 20mg a day, why do some companies (reputable ones like life extensions for example) make 50mg tabs?
> 
> Añso, what are the long term risks of zinc overconsumption? A quick tot up of my dietary zinc and supplements puts me at about 60mg daily right now. :confused1:
> 
> Many thanks for your time, brother.


 There are some applications for high dose zinc like wound healing and infection. This is an acute and short-term application. 50 mg can lead to some effects like copper depletion, anemia, and zinc toxicity in the long run. It may also have effects on neurotransmitter which could affect mood.

Your body can handle excess food zinc more easily.


----------



## ElChapo

darren.1987 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> For TRT with test prop which I've switched to as you recommended it can be better for mood/libido and less water retention, which I have to agree with.
> 
> Whats the best dose/frequency to use? I'm currently doing 0.3ml sub q with no PIP issues M/W/F so should be around 90mg per week.
> 
> I read on a UK trt website that optimal dosing for prop is 50mg 3 x per week?


 MWF is the best compromise between convenience and stable/steady levels. Generally, that's what i recommend, especially for TRT/Cruise.


----------



## ElChapo

strawberry123 said:


> @ElChapo hello mate I'm wondering if you can help with an odd issue I've been having. After eating bigger meals, particularly in the evening not morning with breakfast or lunch, I become very flushed feel a BP spike with almost like hypertension. I get a headache also. I'm currently running 400 primo 200 test 50 winstrol.
> 
> any idea what could be causing this?


 Did it start on your cycle? Are your meals salty? Are you lean or not so lean right no?

This is really rare but it's a symptom of it: https://www.carcinoid.com/carcinoid-syndrome/disease-overview


----------



## Hawker90j

Sorry to jump in again @ElChapo thoughts on running 300mg sus or test e for longer periods rather than high dosaging? Like 300mg year round. Would I still make gains? Also what dosing frequency would you use and would I need an ai? Cheers in advance!


----------



## Pancake'

If you was cruising on enanthate or cypionate would it be better to split injections twice a week over the one injection alone? I often see this whole debate spread out enables more stable levels.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo

Since a while i am really having good gains with JP style workout.

Push Pull Rest Legs Rest Repeat worked really good. Was doing cardio on rest days.

What do you think about modified DC training/JP style training?

What's your advice about workout?

Do you prefer high volume?

Do you think it can be a good thing to use inj Superdrol instead of pills?

Would you ever stack Test Tren NPP 1:1:1 ratio 350 Winny for maximum gains?


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> There are some applications for high dose zinc like wound healing and infection. This is an acute and short-term application. 50 mg can lead to some effects like copper depletion, anemia, and zinc toxicity in the long run. It may also have effects on neurotransmitter which could affect mood.
> 
> Your body can handle excess food zinc more easily.


 So sack off the 40mg a day zinc supplement?


----------



## Volta87

Test 200

Tren 200

Deca 200

Lean Bulk. Thoughts @Chelsea


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Long term SERM use increase estrogen sensibility ?


----------



## arbffgadm100

Volta87 said:


> Test 200
> 
> Tren 200
> 
> Deca 200
> 
> Lean Bulk. Thoughts @Chelsea


 How is someone that knows absolutely nothing about you supposed to comment on that?

You could be 16 years old and 10 stone with a s**t diet, or 350lbs and have lifted and eaten well for 20 years... and even then that's not remotely enough information to pass comment.

Goals?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> If you was cruising on enanthate or cypionate would it be better to split injections twice a week over the one injection alone? I often see this whole debate spread out enables more stable levels.


 Usually see best results with twice weekly injections for TRT in patients. Some guys can do once weekly fine, depends on your genetics which dictate how fast you metabolize the hormone and esters.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Since a while i am really having good gains with JP style workout.
> 
> Push Pull Rest Legs Rest Repeat worked really good. Was doing cardio on rest days.
> 
> What do you think about modified DC training/JP style training?
> 
> What's your advice about workout?
> 
> Do you prefer high volume?
> 
> Do you think it can be a good thing to use inj Superdrol instead of pills?
> 
> Would you ever stack Test Tren NPP 1:1:1 ratio 350 Winny for maximum gains?


 It ALL works if all 3 fundamentals are properly implemented. ( Progressive overload, sufficient recovery and nutrition ).

I like a mixture of volume and heavy compound lifts. There are 3 ways to implement this combination, 1. You can have heavy days/light days 2. You can do your heavy lifts first, then lighter/volume lifts afterwards on the same training day. 3. You can do a few months of heavy/powerlifting style training and cycle that with bodybuilding/volume. This is the ideal approach and the best of both worlds. You can be strong and aesthetic and many legendary physiques have been built with this combo ( Arnold, Ronnie, Dorian, etc)

I like injectable superdrol, great compound and likely less liver toxic and for sure more bioavailable ( You get more mg per mg).

Test/tren/winny/NPP would definitely be a highly potent stack, but the main driver of results is the fundamental 3+your genetics. The AAS just increase 1. The limit of muscle you can build 2. the speed that it happens.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> So sack off the 40mg a day zinc supplement?


 I would not run it long-term. It can be good for wound healing, addressing acute zinc deficiency, etc. Not a good replacement/supplement dose in the long run.


----------



## ElChapo

Volta87 said:


> Test 200
> 
> Tren 200
> 
> Deca 200
> 
> Lean Bulk. Thoughts @Chelsea


 It can all work, like i said above, the main driver of gains is the fundamental 3 ( progressive overload, recovery, nutrition) It sounds cliche as hell, but it's the truth. It's cool to look at the AAS and dream up all kinds of crazy stacks and experiment, that's fun, but if you stick to the basic 3 fundamentals, any AAS will really do the job mg per mg than the other for most intents and purposes. Some will give a different look and some are more potent than others.

I'm not a fan of 19-nors due to gyno sensitivity, but others have great results. I am partial to test P, winstrol and superdrol. Very clean/dry gains, cheap and easy to source, lots of strength increase, minimal side effects, but that's just my experience.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Long term SERM use increase estrogen sensibility ?


 I doubt it, maybe on paper but in real life i can't see it happening. There are some interesting studies where they use estrogen to kill breast cancer because the sensitization from anti-estrogen drugs change the way the cancer cells respond, interesting stuff, but not my field. Remember, estrogen is not the enemy and it is very important for men.

Fun fact, if the male brain is not exposed to estrogen during development, masculinization does not happen. Many of testosterone's effects are due to it's conversion to estradiol, especially in the brain. That's why aromatase inhibitors and SERMS can affect libido negatively. Estrogen is important for mood, health and libido, but like everything, there is a sweetspot, that sweet spot range is not as low and tight as people used to believe.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It ALL works if all 3 fundamentals are properly implemented. ( Progressive overload, sufficient recovery and nutrition ).
> 
> I like a mixture of volume and heavy compound lifts. There are 3 ways to implement this combination, 1. You can have heavy days/light days 2. You can do your heavy lifts first, then lighter/volume lifts afterwards on the same training day. 3. You can do a few months of heavy/powerlifting style training and cycle that with bodybuilding/volume. This is the ideal approach and the best of both worlds. You can be strong and aesthetic and many legendary physiques have been built with this combo ( Arnold, Ronnie, Dorian, etc)
> 
> I like injectable superdrol, great compound and likely less liver toxic and for sure more bioavailable ( You get more mg per mg).
> 
> Test/tren/winny/NPP would definitely be a highly potent stack, but the main driver of results is the fundamental 3+your genetics. The AAS just increase 1. The limit of muscle you can build 2. the speed that it happens.


 I agree with you totally about workouts.

I don't know why but on ONLY VOLUME workouts i get fatigued really fast, on DC-Style straining instead i can improve easier.

Maybe a combination of the two will be more appropriate!! I will try this for sure.

Usually i always went one way or the other.

NOTE: usually my Hematocrit and blood Iron are on the low side, maybe this also gives me issues with high volume workouts?


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> I agree with you totally about workouts.
> 
> I don't know why but on ONLY VOLUME workouts i get fatigued really fast, on DC-Style straining instead i can improve easier.
> 
> Maybe a combination of the two will be more appropriate!! I will try this for sure.
> 
> Usually i always went one way or the other.
> 
> NOTE: usually my Hematocrit and blood Iron are on the low side, maybe this also gives me issues with high volume workouts?


 It could be that you are going to failure too often. Going to failure on every set can be counter productive after sometime as it taxes the CNS. There can be a strategic benefit to going to failure and it feels good to know you are putting in 100% but it takes it's toll if done too frequently. I generally just hit my first set to 100% and try to leave 1-2 reps in the tank for the rest. This goes a long way to preserving energy and not frying yourself out.

Correct, you will FEEL the lack of iron/red blood cells when you are anemic, especially with high volume and it can also affect your actual strength for low rep work as well. It's not something you want for maximum performance.


----------



## X30001

ElChapo said:


> It could be that you are going to failure too often. Going to failure on every set can be counter productive after sometime as it taxes the CNS. There can be a strategic benefit to going to failure and it feels good to know you are putting in 100% but it takes it's toll if done too frequently. I generally just hit my first set to 100% and try to leave 1-2 reps in the tank for the rest. This goes a long way to preserving energy and not frying yourself out.
> 
> Correct, you will FEEL the lack of iron/red blood cells when you are anemic, especially with high volume and it can also affect your actual strength for low rep work as well. It's not something you want for maximum performance.


 Hey man ! Can you please help me with smth bcs i cant message u in private

So, taking...let's say 10IU of HGH (not pharma) and Increlex at 100mcg without Insulin...but with a literally perfect diet with 300g starchy carbs-non sugary and a good regime(HIIT,Resistance) and also taking TUDCA,berberine for insulin sensivity would give someone Diabetes regardless ? What if there isn't 1 case of diabetes in family history ? Hgh at such high doses should be cycled ? Like 4 months on - 6 weeks off ? There is 100% need for insulin at 10iu dose ?


----------



## ElChapo

X30001 said:


> Hey man ! Can you please help me with smth bcs i cant message u in private
> 
> So, taking...let's say 10IU of HGH (not pharma) and Increlex at 100mcg without Insulin...but with a literally perfect diet with 300g starchy carbs-non sugary and a good regime(HIIT,Resistance) and also taking TUDCA,berberine for insulin sensivity would give someone Diabetes regardless ? What if there isn't 1 case of diabetes in family history ? Hgh at such high doses should be cycled ? Like 4 months on - 6 weeks off ? There is 100% need for insulin at 10iu dose ?


 If you aren't an advanced/elite bodybuilder, i would not touch insulin and i would not run such a high HGH dosage. Without insulin, there are serious diminishing returns from such a high dose and it can be counter productive. I wouldn't expect it to cause diabetes but you could be in a prediabetic state ( likely reversible).


----------



## Simon90

@ElChapo hello mate hope you are well. 
how long would you run tren Enanthate for? People who run it 10-12 weeks surely aren't getting the most out of that cycle? Or is it a case of diminishing returns after a certain time on 
cheers


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo hope all is good

I'm 3 weeks into splitting my trt dose 60mg test e twice per week Sunday/Wednesday 120mg total and getting a load of acne on back and shoulders, Any reason behind this? We spoke about more stable bloods twice a week for rbc etc as I was doing 120mg once a week instead and you advised to split twice, unsure if twice a week is suitable for me and once a week is better as I had no acne with once per week? What do you suggest mate? Go bsck to once per week? Any reason why twice a week would be causing acne?

Thanks bud


----------



## SwoleVan

I posted this elsewhere but maybe more appropriate here. Thanks in advance to @ElChapo

Im trying to make sense of bloodwork: Ive been on pharma gh for 3.5 months to repair some injuries. After 2-3 weeks Ive been on 3.5-4IU EOD but lately its 4IU 2on, 2 off. No sides thankfully other than not being able to eat enough to maintain weight!

I hadnt the chance to get bloods done before but got some done for other reasons. Im not on anything else and never have. Liver data is a bit worrying apparently

Liver Panel

Total bilirubin, protein total, albumin, globulin, alkaline phosphatase, gamma GT all in normal range. Aspartate transferase is 49U/L where normal is <40. Alanine Transferase is 72U/L where normal is <41.

Progesterone also high at 0.9nmol/L (should be <0.16-0.47)

Prolactin also high at 489mIU/L where normal is 86-324. Bioactive Prolactin also high at 339mIU/L where normal is 63-245.

Test also low at 8.9 but that was 1.5hrs after waking and a big breakfast.

So is there a link between GH and liver issues? Im taking a break in GH now for a few weeks until I get bloods redone around new year. Maybe no harm anyway. Started 2x200mg vitamin B6 daily since saturday to reduce prolactin.

Any help appreciated thankyou


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> @ElChapo hello mate hope you are well.
> how long would you run tren Enanthate for? People who run it 10-12 weeks surely aren't getting the most out of that cycle? Or is it a case of diminishing returns after a certain time on
> cheers


 That is very dependent on your goals, experience level, etc. Tren is suppressive and can affect fertility and your natural testosterone recovery. 12 weeks is a good amount of time to make solid gains and give your body a break afterwards. It's a good compromise and i recommend it over 8 week cycle.

You really don't get diminishing returns from a longer cycle. The MAIN driver of your gains is your training/nutrition/recovery, AAS just let you surpass your natural limit and make gains faster. You could easily run 52 weeks tren cycle and make gains the whole time (don't recommend this). People confuse the initial burst of strength/weight at the beginning of a cycle as "gains". It's not gains, it's an increase in muscle nitrogen/glycogen (pump) and central nervous system strength boost, this is temporary and a big reasons guys deflate and don't keep their results after a cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Hi @ElChapo hope all is good
> 
> I'm 3 weeks into splitting my trt dose 60mg test e twice per week Sunday/Wednesday 120mg total and getting a load of acne on back and shoulders, Any reason behind this? We spoke about more stable bloods twice a week for rbc etc as I was doing 120mg once a week instead and you advised to split twice, unsure if twice a week is suitable for me and once a week is better as I had no acne with once per week? What do you suggest mate? Go bsck to once per week? Any reason why twice a week would be causing acne?
> 
> Thanks bud


 This happens to some people, it might be the higher more stable levels. When you increase your frequency, the mg you need for the same effect usually goes down due to the stacking/overlap effect. The solution is the lower your dosage or return to your once weekly if it was working well for you. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.


----------



## ElChapo

SwoleVan said:


> I posted this elsewhere but maybe more appropriate here. Thanks in advance to @ElChapo
> 
> Im trying to make sense of bloodwork: Ive been on pharma gh for 3.5 months to repair some injuries. After 2-3 weeks Ive been on 3.5-4IU EOD but lately its 4IU 2on, 2 off. No sides thankfully other than not being able to eat enough to maintain weight!
> 
> I hadnt the chance to get bloods done before but got some done for other reasons. Im not on anything else and never have. Liver data is a bit worrying apparently
> 
> Liver Panel
> 
> Total bilirubin, protein total, albumin, globulin, alkaline phosphatase, gamma GT all in normal range. Aspartate transferase is 49U/L where normal is <40. Alanine Transferase is 72U/L where normal is <41.
> 
> Progesterone also high at 0.9nmol/L (should be <0.16-0.47)
> 
> Prolactin also high at 489mIU/L where normal is 86-324. Bioactive Prolactin also high at 339mIU/L where normal is 63-245.
> 
> Test also low at 8.9 but that was 1.5hrs after waking and a big breakfast.
> 
> So is there a link between GH and liver issues? Im taking a break in GH now for a few weeks until I get bloods redone around new year. Maybe no harm anyway. Started 2x200mg vitamin B6 daily since saturday to reduce prolactin.
> 
> Any help appreciated thankyou


 Not really concerning. Those are only slightly elevated and this can happen from a recent heavy workout, drinking some alcohol, taking tylenol/meds, etc. You should see the numbers that i have seen for liver enzymes (+2,000). Did you do any of these activities close to blood draw? You are likely fine. HGH is not liver toxic unless it's adulterated chinese stuff.

Prolactin could be high if you ejaculated within 24 hours of lab draw. It could also be a side effect from the HGH.

If you want accurate testosterone level, draw before 10 AM on empty stomach (no juice, candy, food, etc).


----------



## MTM1

@ElChapo

Hi there, I appreciate you're not going to know everything but your knowledge certainly seems extensive so worth an ask.

I have brachial neuritis on my right side. It happened mid August, had the severe pain and then weakness and winging scapula. I've seen a physio who has been very helpful, he's checked and can feel innervation at various points so the nerve is getting signal it's just reduced. He's explained it will very likely fully heal in time and there's nothing he can really do to speed it up. The ROM has improved, the winging is much reduced so it all seems to be going in the right direction. I have trained pretty much throughout- once pain went - got a safety squat bar for squats, deadlifts and rows are fine now but were effected a bit early on as couldn't engage lats properly. The reduced ROM rules out some movements like chins and pushing is pretty much just band work and assisted push ups to try to maintain left side and reduce atrophy on right which I do have a bit on pec and tricep. As physio has said it'll all come back so keep what I'm doing but I was wondering if anything could help that you might know of as it can take over a year to fully heal, in some cases it never fully does, and the reduced movement is causing me issues with other muscles aching - front of neck in particular , which I assume is likely caused by them having to contribute more to movements than they would normally? Work doesn't always help but try to manage that as best I can.

Would peptides help? Are they safe to use?

Appreciate you may not know but grateful for any ideas.

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

MTM1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi there, I appreciate you're not going to know everything but your knowledge certainly seems extensive so worth an ask.
> 
> I have brachial neuritis on my right side. It happened mid August, had the severe pain and then weakness and winging scapula. I've seen a physio who has been very helpful, he's checked and can feel innervation at various points so the nerve is getting signal it's just reduced. He's explained it will very likely fully heal in time and there's nothing he can really do to speed it up. The ROM has improved, the winging is much reduced so it all seems to be going in the right direction. I have trained pretty much throughout- once pain went - got a safety squat bar for squats, deadlifts and rows are fine now but were effected a bit early on as couldn't engage lats properly. The reduced ROM rules out some movements like chins and pushing is pretty much just band work and assisted push ups to try to maintain left side and reduce atrophy on right which I do have a bit on pec and tricep. As physio has said it'll all come back so keep what I'm doing but I was wondering if anything could help that you might know of as it can take over a year to fully heal, in some cases it never fully does, and the reduced movement is causing me issues with other muscles aching - front of neck in particular , which I assume is likely caused by them having to contribute more to movements than they would normally? Work doesn't always help but try to manage that as best I can.
> 
> Would peptides help? Are they safe to use?
> 
> Appreciate you may not know but grateful for any ideas.
> 
> Cheers


 Did you or your clinician identify the cause of the issue? That would help give you a clue as to what could help speed up the healing.


----------



## SwoleVan

ElChapo said:


> Not really concerning. Those are only slightly elevated and this can happen from a recent heavy workout, drinking some alcohol, taking tylenol/meds, etc. You should see the numbers that i have seen for liver enzymes (+2,000). Did you do any of these activities close to blood draw? You are likely fine. HGH is not liver toxic unless it's adulterated chinese stuff.
> 
> Prolactin could be high if you ejaculated within 24 hours of lab draw. It could also be a side effect from the HGH.
> 
> If you want accurate testosterone level, draw before 10 AM on empty stomach (no juice, candy, food, etc).


 @ElChapo

Thanks brother; great info and reassuring. Hopefully just a random spike as it shouldnt be Chinese muck but sure who knows!!


----------



## MTM1

ElChapo said:


> Did you or your clinician identify the cause of the issue? That would help give you a clue as to what could help speed up the healing.


 Sorry El Chapo for not responding sooner. Unfortunately no one's quite sure what causes it! Could be an immune issue as seems to happen in people who've recently had a virus- cough, cold etc not necessarily anything major, may be an hereditary predisposition, response to an injury... nothing definite. It's pretty rare though thought actually far more prevalent as many people may be incorrectly diagnosed with a trapped nerve type issue as the lack of movement and loss of strength can present with that too.

Since writing it has continued to slowly improve so that's good. I may just continue to be patient, hoping by June latest and maybe sooner - only thing I'm more excited about than restrictions easing and football/pubs opening is getting a cambered Swiss bar for my home gym once this is healed lol

Open to ideas if you have any but otherwise not to worry and thanks for your time reading and replying.


----------



## ElChapo

MTM1 said:


> Sorry El Chapo for not responding sooner. Unfortunately no one's quite sure what causes it! Could be an immune issue as seems to happen in people who've recently had a virus- cough, cold etc not necessarily anything major, may be an hereditary predisposition, response to an injury... nothing definite. It's pretty rare though thought actually far more prevalent as many people may be incorrectly diagnosed with a trapped nerve type issue as the lack of movement and loss of strength can present with that too.
> 
> Since writing it has continued to slowly improve so that's good. I may just continue to be patient, hoping by June latest and maybe sooner - only thing I'm more excited about than restrictions easing and football/pubs opening is getting a cambered Swiss bar for my home gym once this is healed lol
> 
> Open to ideas if you have any but otherwise not to worry and thanks for your time reading and replying.


 Have you taken 2-4 weeks complete rest from all training yet? That can fix A LOT of issues on it's own.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Would consistent strength training alone overtime excluding other big factors such as diet and lifestyle maintain considerably higher testosterone levels over someone who does not? I'm just curious to the differences in testosterone increases alone solely from lifting particularly in regards to aging.


 You can get a modest boost from strength training, nothing crazy. Like +3-7 nmol/L


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

is the lethargy from HGH normal?

I took it for 1 week , at 3iu/day and I was asleep all day long so I stopped.

Wasn't expecting to be that tired , I was using it for injury/fat loss , not muscle gain and was thinking of using it for long time but the tiredness was so bad


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> It could be that you are going to failure too often. Going to failure on every set can be counter productive after sometime as it taxes the CNS. There can be a strategic benefit to going to failure and it feels good to know you are putting in 100% but it takes it's toll if done too frequently. I generally just hit my first set to 100% and try to leave 1-2 reps in the tank for the rest. This goes a long way to preserving energy and not frying yourself out.
> 
> *Correct, you will FEEL the lack of iron/red blood cells when you are anemic, especially with high volume and it can also affect your actual strength for low rep work as well. It's not something you want for maximum performance. *


 Sorry for the late answer but had to do bloods before posting...

These are my blood values regarding iron/total blood count:



Globuli Bianchi (WBC) 

7,90 

10^9/L 

4,00 - 10,00

Globuli Rossi (RBC) 

5,28 

10^12/L 

4,70 - 5,82

Emoglobina (Hgb) 

13,8 

g/dL 

14,0 - 17,0 

Ematocrito (Hct) 

43,2 

% 

43,1 - 51,5

Volume corpuscolare medio (MCV) 

81,8 

fL 

81,8 - 95,3

Contenuto medio Hgb (MCH) 

26,1 

pg 

27,3 - 32,2 

Concentrazione media Hgb (MCHC) 

31,9 

g/dL 

31,4 - 35,9

Distribuzione volume eritrocitario (RDW) 

21,1 

% 

11,9 - 14,4 

Piastrine (PLT) 

384 

10^9/L 

150 - 400

Volume piastrinico medio (MPV) 

11,9 

fL 

9,5 - 12,3

PDW 

16,1 

fL 

10,8 - 17,3

PCT 

0,5 

% 

0,2 - 0,4


SIDEREMIA (iron in the blood) 70ug/dl 70-180
TRANSFERRINA ( transferrin) 508 mg/dL 200-360 
FERRITINA (ferritin) 66 ng/mL 20-250

My HGB never been over 14 in 5y, but i think that it was like that even when i was younger.

Iron seems fine...

What would you advise to fix these values?

P.S. i hope you can understand the values posted since some are in italian, but you have the acronym also...


----------



## Pancake'

What would you advise for dealing with what I believe is costochondritis? seems to occur from flat bench or dips so considering dropping both for some time and upping omega 3

This may be a no brainer here, so bare with me, but If I'm alternating between bursts of jogging and sprinting when performing cardio should I receive the benefits of both or must you actively stick to training one form for that sole benefit that style of cardio provides. I don't know the meaning of word jog, I get bored and just end up sprinting.

In the case of training volume. what do you believe is the optimal amount of sets for say upper/lower splits? and for each body part per week?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> @ElChapo hello mate hope you are well.
> how long would you run tren Enanthate for? People who run it 10-12 weeks surely aren't getting the most out of that cycle? Or is it a case of diminishing returns after a certain time on
> cheers


 12 weeks is good. You can keep getting results after 12 weeks, it's just a question of health and recovery. If you ever hope to PCT or return to relying on natural testosterone production, running a cycle of tren longer than 12 weeks will cook your balls and sperm production.

If you are blast/cruise, YOLO, or a professional, then +12 weeks is actually quite common, but many will not admit to it due to fear of condemnation.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> is the lethargy from HGH normal?
> 
> I took it for 1 week , at 3iu/day and I was asleep all day long so I stopped.
> 
> Wasn't expecting to be that tired , I was using it for injury/fat loss , not muscle gain and was thinking of using it for long time but the tiredness was so bad


 Yes, one of the symptoms of acromegaly is fatigue. Some theorize that chinese HGH could have some additive to make you sleepy and gain weight to make it seem more potent as well.

Did you take it in the morning or in the evening. I have found early evening to be the best because it will peak and make you sleepier closer to bed time and will wear off by the time you need to wake up. Your body also gets used to it overtime.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> Sorry for the late answer but had to do bloods before posting...
> 
> These are my blood values regarding iron/total blood count:
> 
> 
> 
> Globuli Bianchi (WBC)
> 
> 7,90
> 
> 10^9/L
> 
> 4,00 - 10,00
> 
> Globuli Rossi (RBC)
> 
> 5,28
> 
> 10^12/L
> 
> 4,70 - 5,82
> 
> Emoglobina (Hgb)
> 
> 13,8
> 
> g/dL
> 
> 14,0 - 17,0
> 
> Ematocrito (Hct)
> 
> 43,2
> 
> %
> 
> 43,1 - 51,5
> 
> Volume corpuscolare medio (MCV)
> 
> 81,8
> 
> fL
> 
> 81,8 - 95,3
> 
> Contenuto medio Hgb (MCH)
> 
> 26,1
> 
> pg
> 
> 27,3 - 32,2
> 
> Concentrazione media Hgb (MCHC)
> 
> 31,9
> 
> g/dL
> 
> 31,4 - 35,9
> 
> Distribuzione volume eritrocitario (RDW)
> 
> 21,1
> 
> %
> 
> 11,9 - 14,4
> 
> Piastrine (PLT)
> 
> 384
> 
> 10^9/L
> 
> 150 - 400
> 
> Volume piastrinico medio (MPV)
> 
> 11,9
> 
> fL
> 
> 9,5 - 12,3
> 
> PDW
> 
> 16,1
> 
> fL
> 
> 10,8 - 17,3
> 
> PCT
> 
> 0,5
> 
> %
> 
> 0,2 - 0,4
> 
> 
> SIDEREMIA (iron in the blood) 70ug/dl 70-180
> TRANSFERRINA ( transferrin) 508 mg/dL 200-360
> FERRITINA (ferritin) 66 ng/mL 20-250
> 
> My HGB never been over 14 in 5y, but i think that it was like that even when i was younger.
> 
> Iron seems fine...
> 
> What would you advise to fix these values?
> 
> P.S. i hope you can understand the values posted since some are in italian, but you have the acronym also...


 Blood seem fine, you could take a little extra iron for a few months to pack some more RBC and ferritin in there, but you are not anemic.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What would you advise for dealing with what I believe is costochondritis? seems to occur from flat bench or dips so considering dropping both for some time and upping omega 3
> 
> This may be a no brainer here, so bare with me, but If I'm alternating between bursts of jogging and sprinting when performing cardio should I receive the benefits of both or must you actively stick to training one form for that sole benefit that style of cardio provides. I don't know the meaning of word jog, I get bored and just end up sprinting.
> 
> In the case of training volume. what do you believe is the optimal amount of sets for say upper/lower splits? and for each body part per week?


 For the dips, don't lean to much into them and keep your shoulder blades pulled back and together through out the whole movement. This will relieve pressure from the sternum/ribs.

What you are doing is HIIT, it's great exercise and does give you benefits of both. I don't like to sprint too much as it can take some energy and recovery from lifting, but it is fantastic exercise and also tax the CNS.

About sets and splits; I have answered this question so many times it makes my brain hurt. The quick answer is that IT ALL WORKS. As long as you are following the three fundamentals; Progressive overload, nutrition and recovery. If you aren't getting results from your training plan, then one of those three fundamentals is not being done properly.


----------



## Funkyfresh

@ElChapo

What are your thoughts on running a low dose Angiotensin II receptor antagonist on cycle as a protective measure?

Some coaches are recommending the use of an ARB by default on cycle as a preventative measure.

Telmisartan seems particularly interesting as it supposedly offers a myriad of other benefits for metabolic health...etc.

Also, it seems these class of drugs may offer some benefit in controlling the elevated RBC and hematocrit increases from androgen use as I understand angiotensin II plays into the stimulation of erythropoietin. (I don't understand the mechanism exactly)

I don't typically suffer from high blood pressure normally and I understand that other lifestyle factors (cardio, staying lean, diet...etc) are going to be much more beneficial than popping pills as a long term strategy....but I'd love to know your thoughts on this.


----------



## ElChapo

Funkyfresh said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are your thoughts on running a low dose Angiotensin II receptor antagonist on cycle as a protective measure?
> 
> Some coaches are recommending the use of an ARB by default on cycle as a preventative measure.
> 
> Telmisartan seems particularly interesting as it supposedly offers a myriad of other benefits for metabolic health...etc.
> 
> Also, it seems these class of drugs may offer some benefit in controlling the elevated RBC and hematocrit increases from androgen use as I understand angiotensin II plays into the stimulation of erythropoietin. (I don't understand the mechanism exactly)
> 
> I don't typically suffer from high blood pressure normally and I understand that other lifestyle factors (cardio, staying lean, diet...etc) are going to be much more beneficial than popping pills as a long term strategy....but I'd love to know your thoughts on this.


 If your on cycle BP is +160/100 resting or are running a long cycle/cruise with +140/90 mmhg, then yeah, it could be a good idea.

+140/90 for long periods will damage heart, kidney and circulation through out the body. +160/100 increases your acute risk of stroke and heart attack in the short term.

Most of the benefit you would see would be from reversing high blood pressure which absolutely destroys your healthy, i like to recommend using as little stuff as you need though.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo after some advise on bloods. Had an opinion and looking at a 2nd/3rd. Thanks in advance.

i had bloods done at the docs circa 3 weeks ago and my creatinine was in check as was my eGFR. I wanted both to be a little better before I went back on so supplemented astragulas and dropped my protein to below around 150g

skip 3 weeks and I've had a medichecks test and both have got worse + cholesterol and live function is off.

FYI I've been off all gear since first week of November. But I've jabbed test since the medichecks as I was feeling like s**t. Medichecks shows test level at 7

my question is do you know how much effect alcohol would have on cholesterol, kidney and liver function 7 days prior to test. I drunk very heavy for 2 nights and by that I mean I was wasted both nights as it was my wife's 40th. On the Saturday we drink 12 hours solid including beer, wine, gin, brandy. Both doc and medichecks below


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo after some advise on bloods. Had an opinion and looking at a 2nd/3rd. Thanks in advance.
> 
> i had bloods done at the docs circa 3 weeks ago and my creatinine was in check as was my eGFR. I wanted both to be a little better before I went back on so supplemented astragulas and dropped my protein to below around 150g
> 
> skip 3 weeks and I've had a medichecks test and both have got worse + cholesterol and live function is off.
> 
> FYI I've been off all gear since first week of November. But I've jabbed test since the medichecks as I was feeling like s**t. Medichecks shows test level at 7
> 
> my question is do you know how much effect alcohol would have on cholesterol, kidney and liver function 7 days prior to test. I drunk very heavy for 2 nights and by that I mean I was wasted both nights as it was my wife's 40th. On the Saturday we drink 12 hours solid including beer, wine, gin, brandy. Both doc and medichecks below
> View attachment 196421
> 
> View attachment 196423
> 
> View attachment 196419
> 
> View attachment 196435
> View attachment 196427
> View attachment 196429


 First off, slightly elevated creatinine is not a cause for concern.

Creatinine is a natural metabolite of skeletal muscle metabolism. It is used as a surrogate marker for kidney disease but if you lift weights and carry more muscle than average and eat lots of protein, elevated creatinine and lower GFR reading is normal.

The kidney killer is high Blood pressure for many years, not AAS or high protein diet. Protein is only avoided in kidney failure patients because their kidneys can no longer process the protein efficiently, not because the protein itself is harmful to the kidneys.

AST/ALT could be elevated from the drink binge or from intense training or even medication. You will be fine, you can re-test later. Those levels are not concerning.

Your cholesterol is also fine, dont pay too much attention the the ridiculous LDL range. Most men would need to become vegans or take statins to attain those "perfect" cholesterol levels.

Bottom line: To keep your kidneys healthy; Keep your BP under 140/90 mmhg. To keep your heart healthy; keep doing regular cardio and don't be fat.


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo my mum has been advised to take statins by her doctor. She refused and lost 2 stone doing regular cardio eating healthier etc

(she's still overweight after the loss)

Got her current blood tests and her cholesterol must still be bad as doc is still pushing for statins.

Is there an alternative as statins are quite dangerous? Or it too late? She's 67


----------



## Brodhurst

@ElChapo

Hi Mate,

just wondering if you know what 20mg of nolva a day will look like on a blood test? Will it cause any false readings etc?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo my mum has been advised to take statins by her doctor. She refused and lost 2 stone doing regular cardio eating healthier etc
> 
> (she's still overweight after the loss)
> 
> Got her current blood tests and her cholesterol must still be bad as doc is still pushing for statins.
> 
> Is there an alternative as statins are quite dangerous? Or it too late? She's 67


 The lab range is designed to convince most people to take statins. It is an unnaturally low LDL and and total cholesterol range. Most people need to be on statins or vegan/vegetarian to hit those numbers, but some have the genetics for it. Statins are garbage and very very bad for your health if you look at all the scientific data. Share this with her and take a quick read:

https://kellybroganmd.com/cracking-cholesterol-myth-statins-harm-body-mind/ (Study Links Statins to 300+ Adverse Health Effects)

Have her keep up her cardio and continue the fat loss (This is the key to a healthy heart, not "low cholesterol"). To sustain fat loss and keep the fat off, it's important to eat foods she enjoys and not be on a restrictive diet. Fad diets and the rest will eventually lead to gaining most if not more fat than before diet. Keep resting blood pressure under 140/90 mmhg.

Remember, people lived long and healthy lives in the last century without "statins" and eating bacon, eggs, butter, steak, etc. People are now sicker than ever even though we have all this "medicine" available.

If you want, show me her actual cholesterol and triglyceride numbers, but they are probably not bad.


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi Mate,
> 
> just wondering if you know what 20mg of nolva a day will look like on a blood test? Will it cause any false readings etc?
> 
> Cheers


 Yes, it can cause elevated estradiol reading by 1. Tricking the test into thinking it's estradiol 2. Increase your actual estradiol levels. The most accurate test would be LC/MS assay estradiol test, which will not cross-react with the SERM. It might still be innaccurate if the SERM increases your actual estradiol level although i do not believe it is to a significant degree.


----------



## Brodhurst

ElChapo said:


> Yes, it can cause elevated estradiol reading by 1. Tricking the test into thinking it's estradiol 2. Increase your actual estradiol levels. The most accurate test would be LC/MS assay estradiol test, which will not cross-react with the SERM. It might still be innaccurate if the SERM increases your actual estradiol level although i do not believe it is to a significant degree.


 @ElChapo

So if I do start taking tamoxifen how long should I go off it before I do bloods. I can't find a definitive elimination time online. Any ideas?


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> The lab range is designed to convince most people to take statins. It is an unnaturally low LDL and and total cholesterol range. Most people need to be on statins or vegan/vegetarian to hit those numbers, but some have the genetics for it. Statins are garbage and very very bad for your health if you look at all the scientific data. Share this with her and take a quick read:
> 
> https://kellybroganmd.com/cracking-cholesterol-myth-statins-harm-body-mind/ (Study Links Statins to 300+ Adverse Health Effects)
> 
> Have her keep up her cardio and continue the fat loss (This is the key to a healthy heart, not "low cholesterol"). To sustain fat loss and keep the fat off, it's important to eat foods she enjoys and not be on a restrictive diet. Fad diets and the rest will eventually lead to gaining most if not more fat than before diet. Keep resting blood pressure under 140/90 mmhg.
> 
> Remember, people lived long and healthy lives in the last century without "statins" and eating bacon, eggs, butter, steak, etc. People are now sicker than ever even though we have all this "medicine" available.
> 
> If you want, show me her actual cholesterol and triglyceride numbers, but they are probably not bad.


 Thanks mate great help


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> So if I do start taking tamoxifen how long should I go off it before I do bloods. I can't find a definitive elimination time online. Any ideas?


 2 Weeks should be enough time. A month for sure


----------



## Brodhurst

ElChapo said:


> 2 Weeks should be enough time. A month for sure


 Thanks


----------



## Jay Walker

@ElChapo

Hi buddy, hope you're well.

Quick one, Dr George Touliatos has done several articles about the use of Losartan in an off label capacity to control HCT/RBC, for those sensitive to elevated values?

Any thoughts?


----------



## ElChapo

Jay Walker said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi buddy, hope you're well.
> 
> Quick one, Dr George Touliatos has done several articles about the use of Losartan in an off label capacity to control HCT/RBC, for those sensitive to elevated values?
> 
> Any thoughts?


 He is a friend of mine. I'm not sure how effective that really is. Generally, i would suggest tackling the cause of the elevated HCT like sleep apnea,


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo will you get the covid vaccine everyone's calling a bio weapon etc?


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo will you get the covid vaccine everyone's calling a bio weapon etc?


 Absolutely not.

1. It's not tested sufficiently, This is not a "vaccine". It's a brand new technology that has never been approved or sufficiently tested in humans. RNA tech is completely different and in no way similar to a classic vaccine.

2. it has already killed over a thousand people officially and has caused severe adverse reactions in others (seizures/heart attack),

3. the virus itself has a very low lethality rate for most people and there are many effective and easy to access treatments if you end up having a bad case of covid-19.

This is not conspiracy bullshit either, it's 100% facts. I have had many elderly patients with HIV, COPD, and diabetes who had it and survived it. The odds of death for people under 65 in generally decent health are incredibly low. Hydroxychloroquine is quite effective. ( I see it work all the time). It has 50 years of testing/research and is so safe that it is approved for pregnant women. It's extremely cheap, so zero $$$ profits to be made. Now the "vaccines", think trillions $$$ in profit in the span of a decade.


----------



## iron2000

ElChapo said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> 1. It's not tested sufficiently, This is not a "vaccine". It's a brand new technology that has never been approved or sufficiently tested in humans. RNA tech is completely different and in no way similar to a classic vaccine.
> 
> 2. it has already killed over a thousand people officially and has caused severe adverse reactions in others (seizures/heart attack),
> 
> 3. the virus itself has a very low lethality rate for most people and there are many effective and easy to access treatments if you end up having a bad case of covid-19.
> 
> This is not conspiracy bullshit either, it's 100% facts. I have had many elderly patients with HIV, COPD, and diabetes who had it and survived it. The odds of death for people under 65 in generally decent health are incredibly low. Hydroxychloroquine is quite effective. ( I see it work all the time). It has 50 years of testing/research and is so safe that it is approved for pregnant women. It's extremely cheap, so zero $$$ profits to be made. Now the "vaccines", think trillions $$$ in profit in the span of a decade.


 I think the percentage of deaths rather than the number itself is more meaningful. 0.0018% is nothing especially compared to the death rate of the virus itself. I've heard some people get permanent lung or brain damage from it. Haven't really looked into it though. I don't plan to get vaccinated and I'm not concerned about covid. I don't even wear a mask. I am however concerned about the possible restrictions not getting vaccinated may bring in the future. I don't really see the harm in getting vaccinated either.



> Over *76 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines* were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 1, 2021. During this time, VAERS received *1,381 reports of death (0.0018%) *among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.


 Getting vaccinated probably had nothing to do with them dying as the percentage of deaths didn't increase. The same amount of people would have died among 76 million during the same period regardless.


----------



## ElChapo

iron2000 said:


> I think the percentage of deaths rather than the number itself is more meaningful. 0.0018% is nothing especially compared to the death rate of the virus itself. I've heard some people get permanent lung or brain damage from it. Haven't really looked into it though. I don't plan to get vaccinated and I'm not concerned about covid. I don't even wear a mask. I am however concerned about the possible restrictions not getting vaccinated may bring in the future. I don't really see the harm in getting vaccinated either.
> 
> Getting vaccinated probably had nothing to do with them dying as the percentage of deaths didn't increase. The same amount of people would have died among 76 million during the same period regardless.


 The issue is that the threshold for classifying a covid death is artificially low. If you died from a gunshot or car crash but are "suspected of covid" with no positive test, you died from covid. This is 100% factual. I work in the system. There are also financial incentives for hospital having more covid deaths. (Big medicare payouts).

The harm is that this is not a vaccine. It's Not a vaccine. I had to say it twice to get the point across. Look up what it actually is.

These events actually are linked to taking the vaccine. Did you see the video of the girl receiving the vaccine and passing out? Her social media was scrubbed and nobody can find her anywhere. She probably died. Again, i'm not a conspiracy nut. The contrary, i am known the science and facts and data master. This s**t is not worth the risk, and remember, it took half a century for them to tell you that 1. Cigarettes are bad. 2. Asbestos is bad. 3. Lead is bad.

How long will you wait for the red light on this "vaccine"?


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> i am known the science and facts and data master. This s**t is not worth the risk, and remember, it took half a century for them to tell you that 1. Cigarettes are bad. 2. Asbestos is bad. 3. Lead is bad.
> 
> How long will you wait for the red light on this "vaccine"?


 Also worth noting that payouts for the rushed out h1n1 vaccine in 2009 are still being successfully claimed for what appears to be life long neurological disorders like narcolepsy (successful pay out generally represents a 'guilty plea' that the vaccine was to blame)

And this vaccine was rushed through under far less desperate and financially driven circumstances than the covid19 vaccines.

I do still think that for the vast majority the risk of adverse effects from the covid vaccine is very low, much like covid itself.

If you are old, weak or vulnerable it's probably wise to go for the vaccine rather than take your chances with covid

And the same is true vice versa imo.

Eating well, staying fit and supplementing vitamin D will see most just fine.

And of course it should always be optional, which includes free from coercion which is what has been a red flag for many.

If to go that route I would always opt for the more traditional vaccines like Astra zenica over the MRNA method.

@ElChapo at what stage do you think we're likely to start seeing the adverse effects from the MRNA shots in those that did not experience them immediately?

My understanding is that it's typically the 2 year mark that you are extremely unlikely to suffer side effects if none are experienced up until that point

With an exponential drop off of risk up until that time.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo best supplements for high BP on oral ?

I get high BP on even 25mg of Tbol , I'd like to use it for 6 weeks at 25-40mg but I get headaches and a little blurred vision from high blood pressure when I use it.

I do daily cardio , eat clean and drink a lot of water.

Also for the first time since I use AAS my RBC is at 16 and hematocrit at 46% , I don't know what happened. just did a blood test yesterday .

Only normal things are Small new RBC are too high , and potassium is at 3.4 (norm is 3.5-5) even thought I eat 4 bananas a day , salmon , and other potassium rich food.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> Also worth noting that payouts for the rushed out h1n1 vaccine in 2009 are still being successfully claimed for what appears to be life long neurological disorders like narcolepsy (successful pay out generally represents a 'guilty plea' that the vaccine was to blame)
> 
> And this vaccine was rushed through under far less desperate and financially driven circumstances than the covid19 vaccines.
> 
> I do still think that for the vast majority the risk of adverse effects from the covid vaccine is very low, much like covid itself.
> 
> If you are old, weak or vulnerable it's probably wise to go for the vaccine rather than take your chances with covid
> 
> And the same is true vice versa imo.
> 
> Eating well, staying fit and supplementing vitamin D will see most just fine.
> 
> And of course it should always be optional, which includes free from coercion which is what has been a red flag for many.
> 
> If to go that route I would always opt for the more traditional vaccines like Astra zenica over the MRNA method.
> 
> @ElChapo at what stage do you think we're likely to start seeing the adverse effects from the MRNA shots in those that did not experience them immediately?
> 
> My understanding is that it's typically the 2 year mark that you are extremely unlikely to suffer side effects if none are experienced up until that point
> 
> With an exponential drop off of risk up until that time.


 Two other issues i didnt mention, the elderly seem to be more prone to the adverse reactions from the vaccine and the vaccine isnt even proven to stop you from getting the virus, it really is a sick joke.

Also note that the manufacturers have special protection from liability from death or injury due to the vaccine, at least in the USA.

No idea about the time frame to see what happens to people long term and that is part of the risk. These adverse effects like sudden death (really happening to patients), cardiac arrest, seizure, bells palsy, etc are possibly the tip of the iceberg.

The survival rate for covid is over+97% and that is without all the therapies available to fight it like hydroxychloroquine, regeneron, etc. We have more data and info on covid than the vaccine, and again, there are VERY effective and SAFE therapies that are cheap and well-tested. The vaccine is an insane cash and power grab (vaccine passports/record breaking profits)

We put this huge trust on the medical field and i will tell you now as a healthcare worker, a lot of that trust is greatly misplaced. It is just as corrupted as politics and finance but gets the "shield of benevolence" from society.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo best supplements for high BP on oral ?
> 
> I get high BP on even 25mg of Tbol , I'd like to use it for 6 weeks at 25-40mg but I get headaches and a little blurred vision from high blood pressure when I use it.
> 
> I do daily cardio , eat clean and drink a lot of water.
> 
> Also for the first time since I use AAS my RBC is at 16 and hematocrit at 46% , I don't know what happened. just did a blood test yesterday .
> 
> Only normal things are Small new RBC are too high , and potassium is at 3.4 (norm is 3.5-5) even thought I eat 4 bananas a day , salmon , and other potassium rich food.


 Do you have a monitor? How high is the BP getting?

Low dose beta blocker ( the meds that end in -lol) or angiotensin inhibitor like losartan will do the job on cycle.

Your RBC and HCT are okay at those numbers. Potassium is tightly regulated by the kidneys, the serum potassium is rarely affected by diet, i would not be concerned and if you re-tested, it would probably be back in range.


----------



## iron2000

ElChapo said:


> Two other issues i didnt mention, the elderly seem to be more prone to the adverse reactions from the vaccine and the vaccine isnt even proven to stop you from getting the virus, it really is a sick joke.
> 
> Also note that the manufacturers have special protection from liability from death or injury due to the vaccine, at least in the USA.
> 
> No idea about the time frame to see what happens to people long term and that is part of the risk. These adverse effects like sudden death (really happening to patients), cardiac arrest, seizure, bells palsy, etc are possibly the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> The survival rate for covid is over+97% and that is without all the therapies available to fight it like hydroxychloroquine, regeneron, etc. We have more data and info on covid than the vaccine, and again, there are VERY effective and SAFE therapies that are cheap and well-tested. The vaccine is an insane cash and power grab (vaccine passports/record breaking profits)
> 
> We put this huge trust on the medical field and i will tell you now as a healthcare worker, a lot of that trust is greatly misplaced. It is just as corrupted as politics and finance but gets the "shield of benevolence" from society.


 I'm not from the UK and they have vaccinated less than 30k people here. Today I saw a news story of a healthy 31 year old man who dropped dead two weeks after getting vaccinated. He got a fever and headaches right after receiving the vaccine and 10 days later everything got worse (they weren't specific in the article). Maybe you are onto something...


----------



## ElChapo

iron2000 said:


> I'm not from the UK and they have vaccinated less than 30k people here. Today I saw a news story of a healthy 31 year old man who dropped dead two weeks after getting vaccinated. He got a fever and headaches right after receiving the vaccine and 10 days later everything got worse (they weren't specific in the article). Maybe you are onto something...


 I never, ever, speak bullshit. That's a fact.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Do you have a monitor? How high is the BP getting?
> 
> Low dose beta blocker ( the meds that end in -lol) or angiotensin inhibitor like losartan will do the job on cycle.
> 
> Your RBC and HCT are okay at those numbers. Potassium is tightly regulated by the kidneys, the serum potassium is rarely affected by diet, i would not be concerned and if you re-tested, it would probably be back in range.


 at home I'm at 12/6 or 13/7

on Tbol , I'm at 155/9 at rest , low dose


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> at home I'm at 12/6 or 13/7
> 
> on Tbol , I'm at 155/9 at rest , low dose


 That's borderline concerning, you are probably fine as long as you don't stay up there for too long. Once you hit 160/100 and above , your risk of acute stroke/heart attack significantly increases.


----------



## Avgs

Am currently working as a roofer, what kind of cycle would you recommend to someone who does manual labour 8/9 hours a day 5 days a week? Worried about getting calf / back pumps and not being able to do my job


----------



## ElChapo

Avgs said:


> Am currently working as a roofer, what kind of cycle would you recommend to someone who does manual labour 8/9 hours a day 5 days a week? Worried about getting calf / back pumps and not being able to do my job


 no different than anyone else, you need to make sure to eat enough calories for growth since you burn a lot.


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapoJust for the sake of knowledge I would like to ask you why is it considered bad to have low SHBG? is having low SHBG means I will have high free E2 as well?


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapoJust for the sake of knowledge I would like to ask you why is it considered bad to have low SHBG? is having low SHBG means I will have high free E2 as well?


 It's just a fad to worry excessively about SHBG. It's not "good or bad".


----------



## Brodhurst

@ElChapo Would you mind having a quick look at my blood panel? Any advice much appreciated? Been running 300 test last 20 weeks.


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapo I am so grateful for you as a specialist in this field for answering our questions.

I would like to ask you another question if possible; do you think that HGH may improve the testicular recovery from steroids during the PCT? Or growth hormone does not really contribute to this kind of recoveries?


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> @ElChapo Would you mind having a quick look at my blood panel? Any advice much appreciated? Been running 300 test last 20 weeks.
> 
> View attachment 197289
> 
> 
> View attachment 197291
> 
> 
> View attachment 197293
> 
> 
> View attachment 197295


 You want to bring that Vitamin D to 100-150

Estradiol is as high as a woman's during luteal phase, but that's from the high testosterone. Prolactin a bit high too, did you have sex or masturbate within the last 24 hours of this test? Sometimes can be elevated from the estradiol.

Thyroid looking a little sluggish, and kidneys too.

Liver enzymes elevated, sometimes that can be from intense training, medication or drinking.

Do you know what your resting blood pressure is? Or what it was at the doctor's office? That will help me guess if it's really kidney damage or not. Once that EGFR number hits under 15, you need dialysis or you die from kidney failure.

Otherwise, not too bad. Just note that blood work does not show the real damage that AAS can do to the body, that will be inside the arteries with hardened/calcified arteries and heart structure changes like thickening and hardening of the heart chambers/muscle. One of the easiest ways to prevent damage from AAS is to make sure your blood pressure is not crazy high.

Apparently bostin loyd already has significant kidney failure, like from extremely high blood pressure for the last decade. His heart and arteries probably don't look so good either, but was probably confident from decent lab work all those years.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapo I am so grateful for you as a specialist in this field for answering our questions.
> 
> I would like to ask you another question if possible; do you think that HGH may improve the testicular recovery from steroids during the PCT? Or growth hormone does not really contribute to this kind of recoveries?


 Probably not, but it can help with not losing gains/getting fatter after dropping the cycle.

There is some evidence that HGH may improve fertility, but i doubt it would counter act the effect of AAS significantly, but it definitely can't hurt.


----------



## Brodhurst

ElChapo said:


> You want to bring that Vitamin D to 100-150
> 
> Estradiol is as high as a woman's during luteal phase, but that's from the high testosterone. Prolactin a bit high too, did you have sex or masturbate within the last 24 hours of this test? Sometimes can be elevated from the estradiol.
> 
> Thyroid looking a little sluggish, and kidneys too.
> 
> Liver enzymes elevated, sometimes that can be from intense training, medication or drinking.
> 
> Do you know what your resting blood pressure is? Or what it was at the doctor's office? That will help me guess if it's really kidney damage or not. Once that EGFR number hits under 15, you need dialysis or you die from kidney failure.
> 
> Otherwise, not too bad. Just note that blood work does not show the real damage that AAS can do to the body, that will be inside the arteries with hardened/calcified arteries and heart structure changes like thickening and hardening of the heart chambers/muscle. One of the easiest ways to prevent damage from AAS is to make sure your blood pressure is not crazy high.
> 
> Apparently bostin loyd already has significant kidney failure, like from extremely high blood pressure for the last decade. His heart and arteries probably don't look so good either, but was probably confident from decent lab work all those years.


 Will definitely start up a vitamin d supplement.

The test was done at 07:00 in the morning and I had sex that night, so probably 8 hours before.

FYI not sure if this makes it more of a concern but my thyroid and liver enzymes haven't changed since my natural blood test a year ago.

Took my blood pressure this morning not massively different to pre cycle. Don't currently do any cardio except dog walks. Blood pressure attached.

I was mainly worried about the egfr, but have been told this tests not the most accurate, and can often be dehydration related? Also my natural figure for this was 63 so only just in range. I don't drink or smoke but do overdo the pre workouts.

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> Will definitely start up a vitamin d supplement.
> 
> The test was done at 07:00 in the morning and I had sex that night, so probably 8 hours before.
> 
> FYI not sure if this makes it more of a concern but my thyroid and liver enzymes haven't changed since my natural blood test a year ago.
> 
> Took my blood pressure this morning not massively different to pre cycle. Don't currently do any cardio except dog walks. Blood pressure attached.
> 
> I was mainly worried about the egfr, but have been told this tests not the most accurate, and can often be dehydration related? Also my natural figure for this was 63 so only just in range. I don't drink or smoke but do overdo the pre workouts.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> View attachment 197371


 BP looks good, do you have a higher than average amount of muscle mass? That can make the GFR reading come back low. You can do some more tests to rule out kidney disease (cystatin/microalbumin), but if your BP has been this good the whole time, it's probably just your protein intake, muscularity, etc. Dehydration doesn't help either.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What do you think of the potential health risk factors of consuming too much oxalates?


 Probably bullshit, good idea to avoid if you are prone to kidney stones though.


----------



## Brodhurst

ElChapo said:


> BP looks good, do you have a higher than average amount of muscle mass? That can make the GFR reading come back low. You can do some more tests to rule out kidney disease (cystatin/microalbumin), but if your BP has been this good the whole time, it's probably just your protein intake, muscularity, etc. Dehydration doesn't help either.


 I'm hoping I've got higher than average muscle mass yea.

I think I'm gonna stick with the 300test and add 0.5 adex twice a week, then retest bloods. I don't actually have any bad oestrogen sides but also want to see how I feel with it in range. Or possibly even drop to 150 test and just add in other compounds if bloods are good. I'm really just trying to find a suitable cruise dose with minimal health impact.

Thanks for the advice


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> I'm hoping I've got higher than average muscle mass yea.
> 
> I think I'm gonna stick with the 300test and add 0.5 adex twice a week, then retest bloods. I don't actually have any bad oestrogen sides but also want to see how I feel with it in range. Or possibly even drop to 150 test and just add in other compounds if bloods are good. I'm really just trying to find a suitable cruise dose with minimal health impact.
> 
> Thanks for the advice


 Generally, as long as BP is well controlled, you do cardio, and you don't get fat, you should be fine. 300 mg is the highest i would go for cruising


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo out of this daily stack what would you say aren't necessary or potentially bad if taken every day like zinc with copper deficiency.

omega 3 (6g per day)

vitamin d (4,000 iu pd)

vitamin k2

CQ10 (300mg pd)

garlic (500mg pd)

magnesium citrate (200mg pd)

french maritime pb extract (300mg pd)

B3 nicotinamide

pro biotic

(also anything I've missed?)


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo out of this daily stack what would you say aren't necessary or potentially bad if taken every day like zinc with copper deficiency.
> 
> omega 3 (6g per day)
> 
> vitamin d (4,000 iu pd)
> 
> vitamin k2
> 
> CQ10 (300mg pd)
> 
> garlic (500mg pd)
> 
> magnesium citrate (200mg pd)
> 
> french maritime pb extract (300mg pd)
> 
> B3 nicotinamide
> 
> pro biotic
> 
> (also anything I've missed?)


 Looks fine to me. I might replace the B3 with a good multivitamin.


----------



## FlyOnTheWall

Hi mate. Anything to stop winnie being so hard on joints? . My knees are super sore on 50mg ed. Were fine until a week into the winnie


----------



## ElChapo

FlyOnTheWall said:


> Hi mate. Anything to stop winnie being so hard on joints? . My knees are super sore on 50mg ed. Were fine until a week into the winnie


 I have a theory it may be related to low vitamin D levels in some people. Do you take any aromatase inhibitors?


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Is it possible to practice or enter meditative states during long rest periods say 5min rinse and repeat in between sets.


 No idea, not really my field. I wouldn't want to since you don't want to lose that fight or flight mode between sets.


----------



## FlyOnTheWall

ElChapo said:


> I have a theory it may be related to low vitamin D levels in some people. Do you take any aromatase inhibitors?


 No AI. But trt test. I take vitamin d. Does winnie run vitamin d levels down?


----------



## ElChapo

FlyOnTheWall said:


> No AI. But trt test. I take vitamin d. Does winnie run vitamin d levels down?


 No, something to do with receptors. Do you know your vitamin D levels?


----------



## FlyOnTheWall

ElChapo said:


> No, something to do with receptors. Do you know your vitamin D levels?


 Not had it tested before mate. I Just take 5000 every day.


----------



## Vinny

@ElChapo

Thinks on Red face? Mainly forehead and cheeks. Past year I've had it all the time, when on and off gear, hot or cold, just constantly red faced and my forehead goes dry, small bumps as well.

Been doctors for it for a couple of times now but no luck, just been using miconazole nitrate and hydrocortisone cream for 6 weeks, at first looked like it was doing something but in the end didn't make any difference.

Attached a picture of how it is today, it's normally worse, specially after training.

View attachment d9d95c59-ae2a-4561-842b-faba6672e685.jfif


----------



## ElChapo

FlyOnTheWall said:


> Not had it tested before mate. I Just take 5000 every day.


 Taking on empty stomach or with food? Absorption is generally poor on empty stomach, it needs fat to be absorbed properly


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thinks on Red face? Mainly forehead and cheeks. Past year I've had it all the time, when on and off gear, hot or cold, just constantly red faced and my forehead goes dry, small bumps as well.
> 
> Been doctors for it for a couple of times now but no luck, just been using miconazole nitrate and hydrocortisone cream for 6 weeks, at first looked like it was doing something but in the end didn't make any difference.
> 
> Attached a picture of how it is today, it's normally worse, specially after training.
> 
> View attachment 197661


 Sounds and looks like rosacea, kind of a mystery disorder, possibly autoimmune. Do you know your blood pressure? That is also another possibility, and elevate

hematocrit.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosacea


----------



## FlyOnTheWall

ElChapo said:


> Taking on empty stomach or with food? Absorption is generally poor on empty stomach, it needs fat to be absorbed properly


 When I wake up. Do you think this will stop the joint pain for most peopl ? To take vitamin d . I love winnie but always have to stop cause of sort joints


----------



## DarkKnight

Vinny said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thinks on Red face? Mainly forehead and cheeks. Past year I've had it all the time, when on and off gear, hot or cold, just constantly red faced and my forehead goes dry, small bumps as well.
> 
> Been doctors for it for a couple of times now but no luck, just been using miconazole nitrate and hydrocortisone cream for 6 weeks, at first looked like it was doing something but in the end didn't make any difference.
> 
> Attached a picture of how it is today, it's normally worse, specially after training.
> 
> View attachment 197661


 If I remember right you've used dnp recently?

Its mostly likely that is the culprit. I got terrible red skin off dnp, and it lasted for months after stopping it too.

Made me really itchy all over too


----------



## ElChapo

FlyOnTheWall said:


> When I wake up. Do you think this will stop the joint pain for most peopl ? To take vitamin d . I love winnie but always have to stop cause of sort joints


 Just a fringe theory, but vitamin D is extremely important its not just for bones. Its actually a steroid hormone. Important for immune system and disease prevention. Take the Vitamin D after a meal containing fat like breakfast, lunch or dinner.


----------



## Frankie.88

Hi guys, last cycle i noticed a small lump under my right nipple. Came off, treated with nolva for 4 weeks, lump disappeared, the returned a couple months after.

Ran nolva for 12 weeks , lump disappeared, then returned after a couple of months again, ran Ralox for 12 weeks, lump disappeared then returned again after a month or so.

Today i had an appointment with a breast specialist and an ultrasound to confirm gyno. I have had 2 blood tests during these periods i have stated and both times everything has been in range.

The specialist has booked me another blood test and assured me that there is nothing to worry. I explained i feared getting moobs but she told my gyno lump is different to most an it is slightly to the side of the actual nipple?

i asked if i should continue with Ralox she said to stop it for 3-4 month the go bk for another appointment, she said she is 99% certain it will have not grow in that time and believes it will of probably shrunk ?

I am worried about leaving it that length of time without treating it with nolva or ralox.. what do you guys think? Trust her judgement or continue ralox?

Any advice is appreciated guys. Thanks.


----------



## zariph

Hey!

Got few questions, hopefully you can help.

How would you dose Superdrol for first time user? Got plenty of experience with other AAS. Planning to do test/deca/SD or test/tren/SD.

For how long woul you run SD and would you dose it PWO or just in the morning?
I know you like winny and SD, but if you were to pick between deca or tren for musclemass, which one would you pick?

Why would any1 ever use EQ? For me it seems quite outdated?

Last - Does the expire date matters on injectables and oral, how long can injectable and orals be used after expire date?


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> Sounds and looks like rosacea, kind of a mystery disorder, possibly autoimmune. Do you know your blood pressure? That is also another possibility, and elevate
> 
> hematocrit.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosacea


 My blood pressure has been fine throughout, 27/79 this morning, resting heart rate 73


----------



## Vinny

DarkKnight said:


> If I remember right you've used dnp recently?
> 
> Its mostly likely that is the culprit. I got terrible red skin off dnp, and it lasted for months after stopping it too.
> 
> Made me really itchy all over too


 It's been like this since Start of last year pal


----------



## Frankie.88

Frankie.88 said:


> Hi guys, last cycle i noticed a small lump under my right nipple. Came off, treated with nolva for 4 weeks, lump disappeared, the returned a couple months after.
> 
> Ran nolva for 12 weeks , lump disappeared, then returned after a couple of months again, ran Ralox for 12 weeks, lump disappeared then returned again after a month or so.
> 
> Today i had an appointment with a breast specialist and an ultrasound to confirm gyno. I have had 2 blood tests during these periods i have stated and both times everything has been in range.
> 
> The specialist has booked me another blood test and assured me that there is nothing to worry. I explained i feared getting moobs but she told my gyno lump is different to most an it is slightly to the side of the actual nipple?
> 
> i asked if i should continue with Ralox she said to stop it for 3-4 month the go bk for another appointment, she said she is 99% certain it will have not grow in that time and believes it will of probably shrunk ?
> 
> I am worried about leaving it that length of time without treating it with nolva or ralox.. what do you guys think? Trust her judgement or continue ralox?
> 
> Any advice is appreciated guys. Thanks.


 Anyone?


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> My blood pressure has been fine throughout, 27/79 this morning, resting heart rate 73


 So good chance it's Rosacea


----------



## ElChapo

Frankie.88 said:


> Hi guys, last cycle i noticed a small lump under my right nipple. Came off, treated with nolva for 4 weeks, lump disappeared, the returned a couple months after.
> 
> Ran nolva for 12 weeks , lump disappeared, then returned after a couple of months again, ran Ralox for 12 weeks, lump disappeared then returned again after a month or so.
> 
> Today i had an appointment with a breast specialist and an ultrasound to confirm gyno. I have had 2 blood tests during these periods i have stated and both times everything has been in range.
> 
> The specialist has booked me another blood test and assured me that there is nothing to worry. I explained i feared getting moobs but she told my gyno lump is different to most an it is slightly to the side of the actual nipple?
> 
> i asked if i should continue with Ralox she said to stop it for 3-4 month the go bk for another appointment, she said she is 99% certain it will have not grow in that time and believes it will of probably shrunk ?
> 
> I am worried about leaving it that length of time without treating it with nolva or ralox.. what do you guys think? Trust her judgement or continue ralox?
> 
> Any advice is appreciated guys. Thanks.


 Answered PM but i'll post it here.

Did you check prolactin? and IGF-1? It's usually a genetic sensitivity at the breast cell and IGF-1 that usually causes it, not just estradiol. Surgery is generally the best option if it keeps coming back after SERMS. When did it first happen and are you on TRT or any AAS when it keeps coming back? If you have labs, you can post.

If the lump is not noticeable to the naked eye, then i wouldn't mess with it, it sounds stable and gyno doesn't usually grow into infinity unless fed hormones.


----------



## Frankie.88

ElChapo said:


> Answered PM but i'll post it here.
> 
> Did you check prolactin? and IGF-1? It's usually a genetic sensitivity at the breast cell and IGF-1 that usually causes it, not just estradiol. Surgery is generally the best option if it keeps coming back after SERMS. When did it first happen and are you on TRT or any AAS when it keeps coming back? If you have labs, you can post.
> 
> If the lump is not noticeable to the naked eye, then i wouldn't mess with it, it sounds stable and gyno doesn't usually grow into infinity unless fed hormones.


 Thanks for your reply i have also replied to your DM.

No i am not on cycle or TRT i have stayed off for 18 months while trying to resolve the issue with the gyno.

At the moment it is not noticeable but obviously i fear for it getting worse / bigger. I have ralox on hand if needed.

So do you think it is time for me to call it a day with AAS as the chances are the lump will get worse i go back on cycle or would it be ok with the correct procautions?


----------



## Vinny

ElChapo said:


> So good chance it's Rosacea


 Any advise what's the best thing to do? Tried 2 different creams, no luck


----------



## zariph

zariph said:


> Hey!
> 
> Got few questions, hopefully you can help.
> 
> How would you dose Superdrol for first time user? Got plenty of experience with other AAS. Planning to do test/deca/SD or test/tren/SD.
> 
> For how long woul you run SD and would you dose it PWO or just in the morning?
> I know you like winny and SD, but if you were to pick between deca or tren for musclemass, which one would you pick?
> 
> Why would any1 ever use EQ? For me it seems quite outdated?
> 
> Last - Does the expire date matters on injectables and oral, how long can injectable and orals be used after expire date?


 @ElChapo Hi mate, I think you missed my question?


----------



## DarkKnight

Vinny said:


> It's been like this since Start of last year pal


 Are you a regular dnp user though? If so I'm betting that's the culprit still mate


----------



## ElChapo

Vinny said:


> Any advise what's the best thing to do? Tried 2 different creams, no luck


 Not my field at all (dermatology), but i am sure there is a lot of good information online. it is very common. I would do research and find a good dermotologist. They can keep trying different treatments and find what works for you.

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2015/0801/p187.html


----------



## ElChapo

Frankie.88 said:


> Thanks for your reply i have also replied to your DM.
> 
> No i am not on cycle or TRT i have stayed off for 18 months while trying to resolve the issue with the gyno.
> 
> At the moment it is not noticeable but obviously i fear for it getting worse / bigger. I have ralox on hand if needed.
> 
> So do you think it is time for me to call it a day with AAS as the chances are the lump will get worse i go back on cycle or would it be ok with the correct procautions?


 Do you have low testosterone? That can actually cause gyno itself.

Is it noticeable?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> @ElChapo Hi mate, I think you missed my question?


 I think i did miss it.

I like injectable sdrol, less is wasted in liver metabolism/likely more liver safe, longer half life, and you can use lower doses. 20 mg three times per week worked well for me. It is a very good hormone, 3D look/pump, strength increase and can dry you out a bit too. It's "oral masteron", but much stronger than masteron in every way. The sdrol i would run any time that is convenient, the pre-workout thing doesnt do much, and remember that all your growth actually happens in the REST/RECOVERY phase, not when you are lifting. If using oral sdrol, i would do once daily.

I would try both deca/tren and figure out which one agrees with you more. Some people have better response to one vs the other in terms of results and side effects. For example, nandrolone/deca gives me much worse gyno than trenbolone does, and that is one important factor for people. Some guys blow up on tren and others get lackluster results, so i would try them both in seperate cycles and see which one you like the best.

EQ is mild and some guys even use it as a dryer replacement for testosterone in their cycles (something my friends have told me is popular in the middle east). You don't have to worry about estrogen issues as much and some guys have solid results from it. One of those things i said you can "try and see for yourself" since we are all different, as long as you stick to the fundamentals, you will grow and get stronger (progressive overload, caloric surplus, sufficient recovery time)

The shelf life is virtually forever, unless you left your oils/tabs in high heat/humidity/direct sunlight. Don't pay attention to expiration date, they mean basically nothing.


----------



## Vinny

DarkKnight said:


> Are you a regular dnp user though? If so I'm betting that's the culprit still mate


 No mate, once a year


----------



## Frankie.88

ElChapo said:


> Do you have low testosterone? That can actually cause gyno itself.
> 
> Is it noticeable?


 No at the moment it is not noticeable at the moment. Last blood work test was 12.50 nmol so i guess it is on the lower side?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I think i did miss it.
> 
> I like injectable sdrol, less is wasted in liver metabolism/likely more liver safe, longer half life, and you can use lower doses. 20 mg three times per week worked well for me. It is a very good hormone, 3D look/pump, strength increase and can dry you out a bit too. It's "oral masteron", but much stronger than masteron in every way. The sdrol i would run any time that is convenient, the pre-workout thing doesnt do much, and remember that all your growth actually happens in the REST/RECOVERY phase, not when you are lifting. If using oral sdrol, i would do once daily.
> 
> I would try both deca/tren and figure out which one agrees with you more. Some people have better response to one vs the other in terms of results and side effects. For example, nandrolone/deca gives me much worse gyno than trenbolone does, and that is one important factor for people. Some guys blow up on tren and others get lackluster results, so i would try them both in seperate cycles and see which one you like the best.
> 
> EQ is mild and some guys even use it as a dryer replacement for testosterone in their cycles (something my friends have told me is popular in the middle east). You don't have to worry about estrogen issues as much and some guys have solid results from it. One of those things i said you can "try and see for yourself" since we are all different, as long as you stick to the fundamentals, you will grow and get stronger (progressive overload, caloric surplus, sufficient recovery time)
> 
> The shelf life is virtually forever, unless you left your oils/tabs in high heat/humidity/direct sunlight. Don't pay attention to expiration date, they mean basically nothing.


 Thank you!

Im planning to use oral SD, will 10mg be good for a start or would you just go 20mg daily?

Do you have any supplements/foods to help digestion, will applecider vineger 1tsb per meal help at all?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Im planning to use oral SD, will 10mg be good for a start or would you just go 20mg daily?
> 
> Do you have any supplements/foods to help digestion, will applecider vineger 1tsb per meal help at all?


 10 mg can work. Depends on your experience levels, goals, and genetic response. It sounds cliche but it's true.

I'm not big into the whole digestion thing, but doing some walking or light cardio around meal time will help your body use up the glucose in the food. If you have digestive issues, the individual cause needs to be tackled case by case.


----------



## aaron118

ElChapo said:


> I think i did miss it.
> 
> I like injectable sdrol, less is wasted in liver metabolism/likely more liver safe, longer half life, and you can use lower doses. 20 mg three times per week worked well for me. It is a very good hormone, 3D look/pump, strength increase and can dry you out a bit too. It's "oral masteron", but much stronger than masteron in every way. The sdrol i would run any time that is convenient, the pre-workout thing doesnt do much, and remember that all your growth actually happens in the REST/RECOVERY phase, not when you are lifting. If using oral sdrol, i would do once daily.
> 
> I would try both deca/tren and figure out which one agrees with you more. Some people have better response to one vs the other in terms of results and side effects. For example, nandrolone/deca gives me much worse gyno than trenbolone does, and that is one important factor for people. Some guys blow up on tren and others get lackluster results, so i would try them both in seperate cycles and see which one you like the best.
> 
> EQ is mild and some guys even use it as a dryer replacement for testosterone in their cycles (something my friends have told me is popular in the middle east). You don't have to worry about estrogen issues as much and some guys have solid results from it. One of those things i said you can "try and see for yourself" since we are all different, as long as you stick to the fundamentals, you will grow and get stronger (progressive overload, caloric surplus, sufficient recovery time)
> 
> The shelf life is virtually forever, unless you left your oils/tabs in high heat/humidity/direct sunlight. Don't pay attention to expiration date, they mean basically nothing.


 Hi ElChapo, I've always liked oral superdrol and will be looking to try the injectable. So 20mg M/W/F would be a good starting dose? I always get crippling back pumps on oral superdrol with no amount of taurine/bananas helping. Is it possible the injectable version could give less/no back pumps? Cheers


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> I think i did miss it.
> 
> I like injectable sdrol, less is wasted in liver metabolism/likely more liver safe, longer half life, and you can use lower doses. 20 mg three times per week worked well for me. It is a very good hormone, 3D look/pump, strength increase and can dry you out a bit too. It's "oral masteron", but much stronger than masteron in every way. The sdrol i would run any time that is convenient, the pre-workout thing doesnt do much, and remember that all your growth actually happens in the REST/RECOVERY phase, not when you are lifting. If using oral sdrol, i would do once daily.
> 
> I would try both deca/tren and figure out which one agrees with you more. Some people have better response to one vs the other in terms of results and side effects. For example, nandrolone/deca gives me much worse gyno than trenbolone does, and that is one important factor for people. Some guys blow up on tren and others get lackluster results, so i would try them both in seperate cycles and see which one you like the best.
> 
> EQ is mild and some guys even use it as a dryer replacement for testosterone in their cycles (something my friends have told me is popular in the middle east). You don't have to worry about estrogen issues as much and some guys have solid results from it. One of those things i said you can "try and see for yourself" since we are all different, as long as you stick to the fundamentals, you will grow and get stronger (progressive overload, caloric surplus, sufficient recovery time)
> 
> The shelf life is virtually forever, unless you left your oils/tabs in high heat/humidity/direct sunlight. Don't pay attention to expiration date, they mean basically nothing.


 Are you saying that when an oral is put into injectable form the half life always increases? I'm always baffled by this...can you explain how?

I'm basically looking at running injectable anadrol at 50mg eod, but I'm always sceptical about this protocol so always just end up jabbing ed


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> Hi ElChapo, I've always liked oral superdrol and will be looking to try the injectable. So 20mg M/W/F would be a good starting dose? I always get crippling back pumps on oral superdrol with no amount of taurine/bananas helping. Is it possible the injectable version could give less/no back pumps? Cheers


 No clue about the back pumps, but i had good results on that dosage. Try to engage your abs more in all your exercise to help prevent back pumps.


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> Are you saying that when an oral is put into injectable form the half life always increases? I'm always baffled by this...can you explain how?
> 
> I'm basically looking at running injectable anadrol at 50mg eod, but I'm always sceptical about this protocol so always just end up jabbing ed


 Oral means direct metabolism at the liver. The liver breaks things down into metabolites that are either inert or quickly excreted from the body/used up. That's just one reason why the half life is much shorter, but you see this with all kinds of drugs, not just hormones. Now IV is very very rapid, much faster than oral since it hits the blood stream faster. IM and SQ are generally between ORAL and IV routes of administration in terms of drug metabolism/half life.

Remember, the activity of a drug or hormone does not always necessitate constantly elevated levels. There is something called gene expression that is independent of serum levels of a drug. Once you take something, even once its out of your body, the effects can still be working in your body.


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> Oral means direct metabolism at the liver. The liver breaks things down into metabolites that are either inert or quickly excreted from the body/used up. That's just one reason why the half life is much shorter, but you see this with all kinds of drugs, not just hormones. Now IV is very very rapid, much faster than oral since it hits the blood stream faster. IM and SQ are generally between ORAL and IV routes of administration in terms of drug metabolism/half life.


 f**k me that's a good answer mate!!!!

So going by your sdrol protocol of 20mg m/w/f, 50mg anadrol m/w/f would be fine as well?

In your opinion are these two compounds' half lives extended to the same degree that winstrol's is? (Oral 9hrs, injectable 24hrs)


----------



## Pancake'

What's your take on diets high in dairy consumption and the development of various types of cancers? do you think dairy consumption should be limited? Thanks


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo Do you limit red meat intake?

Also do you believe 1g of protein per lb of bw is plenty?


----------



## kasabian19

@ElChapo

How knowledgeable are you on hair loss meds, .e.g. finasteride, RU58841 (particularly this one), minoxidil etc...?

If you had to compose a stack to re-grow hair, what would be in it and why?

Thanks!


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> 10 mg can work. Depends on your experience levels, goals, and genetic response. It sounds cliche but it's true.
> 
> I'm not big into the whole digestion thing, but doing some walking or light cardio around meal time will help your body use up the glucose in the food. If you have digestive issues, the individual cause needs to be tackled case by case.


 Great!

Im completely clueless about insulin and HGH use but:

Is it worth running HGH without insulin for builing muscle? Or insulin without hgh?

Is lantus a good alternative to fast acting insulin, can I get away with just one shot a day instead of having to pin every meal?

How efficient is MK677/metformin combi you think? Will this mimic the HGH/insulin to some extend?

What dose would you suggest for first time of either insulin or hgh or even both stacked?

Would love some insight on this if you have time to answer mate!


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo best supplements/drugs to help/reverse LVH ?

Doing light cardio helps too?

I have all the symptoms of LVH , I thought it was high RBC but I'm at 16 and 46 hematocrit.

I also have heart pain when I breath deeply , I have an appointment with the cardiologist in a month.

I'm taking all the good/healthy supplements (coq10 , fish oil, citrus bergamot etc) and doing light cardio 3 times a week.

I'm at 11-12% bf , I'm starting a diet today to get under 10%.

I'm on 180mg T/P / week. my cholesterol levels are within range , checked everything and all are normal expect a little bit low potassium even thought I eat a lot and even take supplement.


----------



## ElChapo

stuey99 said:


> f**k me that's a good answer mate!!!!
> 
> So going by your sdrol protocol of 20mg m/w/f, 50mg anadrol m/w/f would be fine as well?
> 
> In your opinion are these two compounds' half lives extended to the same degree that winstrol's is? (Oral 9hrs, injectable 24hrs)


 If it's injectable sdrol/adrol, yes.

Yes to the second question as well.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What's your take on diets high in dairy consumption and the development of various types of cancers? do you think dairy consumption should be limited? Thanks


 No, and there are some health benefits possibly linked to high dairy consumption. It's a highly nutritious food source. Only avoid it if you have allergies/sensitivities.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo Do you limit red meat intake?
> 
> Also do you believe 1g of protein per lb of bw is plenty?


 Never, red meat is highly nutritious (more so than poultry/fish). It's rich in vitamins/minerals you don't find in other meats. The "red meat is bad" myth is false.

1 g protein per lbs of bw is on the very high side and most people, including athletes, don't need that much. However, for satiety/hunger, it does help when it's a bit higher as it is more satiating/filling. Generally, i recommend 1 g per lbs of LEAN mass, that is, not total body weight, during a cut, up to 1 g per lbs of total body weight for satiety purposes.

For maintenance and bulking, 0.8 g per lbs of lean mass is also plenty. There is only so much protein the body can use for muscle growth/repair, the rest gets broken down into energy/stored or excreted.


----------



## ElChapo

kasabian19 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> How knowledgeable are you on hair loss meds, .e.g. finasteride, RU58841 (particularly this one), minoxidil etc...?
> 
> If you had to compose a stack to re-grow hair, what would be in it and why?
> 
> Thanks!


 Depends on the cause of hair loss, but i would assume you are asking about androgenetic alopecia aka male pattern baldness.

I know quite a bit. Generally speaking, nizoral 2% shampoo works pretty well at slowing down and sometimes reversing MPB. Not a fan of minoxidil as there are some credible anecdotes that it can have a negative effect on skin/wrinkles. Never recommend finasteride/dutasteride as it can mess with energy/libido/brain function in men. I generally put quality of life and health over aesthetics, but some guys don't care.

Nizoral can take a good 6 months of consistent use to see positive effects. The earlier you start it, the better. 3-7 times per week, at least 5 mins in the hair before rinsing.

RU58841 has a lot of potential, however, long term consequences are not know as it can be absorbed into blood stream and we don't know what it will do. Supposedly it will not affect testosterone/DHT levels, but receptors agonism/antagonism is just as important as serum androgen levels. If that compound starts plugging those receptors, you could see some negative consequences, but it has potential.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Great!
> 
> Im completely clueless about insulin and HGH use but:
> 
> Is it worth running HGH without insulin for builing muscle? Or insulin without hgh?
> 
> Is lantus a good alternative to fast acting insulin, can I get away with just one shot a day instead of having to pin every meal?
> 
> How efficient is MK677/metformin combi you think? Will this mimic the HGH/insulin to some extend?
> 
> What dose would you suggest for first time of either insulin or hgh or even both stacked?
> 
> Would love some insight on this if you have time to answer mate!


 HGH is one of the most overrated compounds out there. For most recreational lifters, the benefit and especially cost to benefit ratio is very low. As an anti-aging compound, it can bring you great results depending on your baseline IGF level and age. I generally don't give recommendations for insulin use as it can be very dangerous when done incorrectly and it really is overkill for your average lifter. If you are at that level, i would discuss with a professional who has experience using it safely.

Elite/hardcore/pro bodybuilders have a big use for HGH+insulin as it can help you tap the limit of human muscularity. As you can see from the increase in size of bodybuilders since the 90s when it started becoming more and more prevalent. The average lifter really has no need and can get massive gains on AAS+Progressive overload+diet alone.

MK+metformin might work to some extent.

For anti-aging, HGH dose would be 2-3 IU daily for most people. I have found that on it's own, it DOES enhance whatever AAS you are taking at the time at 4 IU (likely from nitrogen boost in muscle/IGF increase/etc). Like taking 150 mg testosterone and looking more like +300 mg plus. It makes you pumped and i felt stronger. Past 4 IU on it's own you will see serious diminishing returns and a ton of water bloat and lethargy.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo best supplements/drugs to help/reverse LVH ?
> 
> Doing light cardio helps too?
> 
> I have all the symptoms of LVH , I thought it was high RBC but I'm at 16 and 46 hematocrit.
> 
> I also have heart pain when I breath deeply , I have an appointment with the cardiologist in a month.
> 
> I'm taking all the good/healthy supplements (coq10 , fish oil, citrus bergamot etc) and doing light cardio 3 times a week.
> 
> I'm at 11-12% bf , I'm starting a diet today to get under 10%.
> 
> I'm on 180mg T/P / week. my cholesterol levels are within range , checked everything and all are normal expect a little bit low potassium even thought I eat a lot and even take supplement.


 There are two types of LVH, pathological (bad) and physiological "athletes heart". The athlete's heart is generally benign and not a concern. Athletes tend to have heart structure changes and can have weird heart beats/sounds while not being in danger. To reverse this, you just stop training hard/working out. No reason to do that.

For the bad type, you would generally tackle the cause. If it's high BP, high AAS dosage, etc. Some structural changes are irreversible.

For that chest pain you have, Were you the one who was doing the weighted dips? Make sure it's not related to that. Some guys can get pain on inspiration from cartilage inflammation in the chest.

How much potassium are you taking? That can f**k you up. Are you avoiding salt? Your BP is fine if i remember correctly?


----------



## stuey99

ElChapo said:


> If it's injectable sdrol/adrol, yes.
> 
> Yes to the second question as well.


 Quality mate

Cheers for that


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> Never, red meat is highly nutritious (more so than poultry/fish). It's rich in vitamins/minerals you don't find in other meats. The "red meat is bad" myth is false.
> 
> 1 g protein per lbs of bw is on the very high side and most people, including athletes, don't need that much. However, for satiety/hunger, it does help when it's a bit higher as it is more satiating/filling. Generally, i recommend 1 g per lbs of LEAN mass, that is, not total body weight, during a cut, up to 1 g per lbs of total body weight for satiety purposes.
> 
> For maintenance and bulking, 0.8 g per lbs of lean mass is also plenty. There is only so much protein the body can use for muscle growth/repair, the rest gets broken down into energy/stored or excreted.


 Awesome, so in your opinion the cancer charities and health Guru's spouting that redmeat increases your chances of cancer blah blah blah is bollocks?


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> Awesome, so in your opinion the cancer charities and health Guru's spouting that redmeat increases your chances of cancer blah blah blah is bollocks?


 Yes, there is a big anti-meat lobby. There are people who want humans to only consume plants. Like that "what the health" documentary, absolute garbage, or as you guys call it, bollocks.


----------



## Ironman TS

ElChapo said:


> Never, red meat is highly nutritious (more so than poultry/fish). It's rich in vitamins/minerals you don't find in other meats. The "red meat is bad" myth is false.
> 
> 1 g protein per lbs of bw is on the very high side and most people, including athletes, don't need that much. However, for satiety/hunger, it does help when it's a bit higher as it is more satiating/filling. Generally, i recommend 1 g per lbs of LEAN mass, that is, not total body weight, during a cut, up to 1 g per lbs of total body weight for satiety purposes.
> 
> For maintenance and bulking, 0.8 g per lbs of lean mass is also plenty. There is only so much protein the body can use for muscle growth/repair, the rest gets broken down into energy/stored or excreted.


 That's interesting thanks.

when counting protein consumed do you only count whole protein sources or do you count the additional protein you get from carbs, etc?

How do you feel protein powders compare to food sources for muscle growth/repair?


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> 1 g protein per lbs of bw is on the very high side and most people, including athletes, don't need that much. However, for satiety/hunger, it does help when it's a bit higher as it is more satiating/filling. Generally, i recommend 1 g per lbs of LEAN mass, that is, not total body weight, during a cut, up to 1 g per lbs of total body weight for satiety purposes.


 If you consumed 1.5-2g per lb of body weight would you really be negatively impacting/damaging to kidney function and or perhaps elsewhere? I'm guilty of overdoing my protein intake.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> There are two types of LVH, pathological (bad) and physiological "athletes heart". The athlete's heart is generally benign and not a concern. Athletes tend to have heart structure changes and can have weird heart beats/sounds while not being in danger. To reverse this, you just stop training hard/working out. No reason to do that.
> 
> For the bad type, you would generally tackle the cause. If it's high BP, high AAS dosage, etc. Some structural changes are irreversible.
> 
> For that chest pain you have, Were you the one who was doing the weighted dips? Make sure it's not related to that. Some guys can get pain on inspiration from cartilage inflammation in the chest.
> 
> How much potassium are you taking? That can f**k you up. Are you avoiding salt? Your BP is fine if i remember correctly?


 My BP is fine,

BUT in 2019 I used low dose tbol for months and iirc my BP was high during those months.

Yes I'm the one who did weighted dips but I stopped since some months because of a small shoulder injury.

The worst thing is that I have lightheadedness constantly since some time and I thought it was from high RBC/hematocrit , but I'm at 16/46 so totally normal..

I do get out of breath when I do my trainings but not at rest.

I read symptoms of LVH (that I already had years ago from the cardiologist examen) :

-lightheadedness and vertigo (I have) and it's really annoying. it feels like I can fall down any moment and that make me want to stay at home.

-shortness of breath , I have but not all day, just when I train , and not as much as when I had high RBC.

-Fatigue , i have and that s the one that worries me the most , my eyes are so heavy the same way when you had a bad nap. it's all day the same for months now even after 8 hours sleep.

-Chest pain, I have since 3 days now.

-Dizziness,faiting, well dizziness I have.

-Heart palpitations, I have sometimes but not that much.

I see my cardiologist in 2 weeks.

I ordered COQ10 200mg , pygnogenol 100mg, citrus bergamot 500mg.

My LDL/HDL are normal, everything s normal on blood test.


----------



## GeordieOak70

@ElChapo Hi there ive recently come off a 2 year break from steroids and training, in which time my diet was terrible admittedly.

I have been on a much healthier diet and exercise routine since January and looking and feeling much better.

However i seem to have an extended gut like its full of air all the time ? From some research ive come across DR Erik Burg DC.

He has outlined a cause could be liver Cirrhosis ? In truth i was drinking a lot of whiskey with a bad diet during my time off.

Now other than this extended / bloated gut i have no other symptoms so is there anything else it could be and how do i get rid of it ?

What would be best for liver support or even to help repair ? I have some TUDCA in my stash already would you suggest anything else?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## ElChapo

Ironman TS said:


> That's interesting thanks.
> 
> when counting protein consumed do you only count whole protein sources or do you count the additional protein you get from carbs, etc?
> 
> How do you feel protein powders compare to food sources for muscle growth/repair?


 Count all protein sources, even from rice/bread. I generally recommend sticking to whole food protein sources, especially on a cut for satiety purposes.

A hard gainer who needs to eat a lot of calories and has issues eating enough calories will benefit from protein shakes since they will fill you up less.

Whole food protein will do just as good as protein powder, nothing magic about it.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> If you consumed 1.5-2g per lb of body weight would you really be negatively impacting/damaging to kidney function and or perhaps elsewhere? I'm guilty of overdoing my protein intake.


 No, the myth that protein damages kidneys come from the fact that people with kidney disease are supposed to avoid protein because their kidneys can no longer process/filter out the protein/metabolic byproducts. So people assume "wow, the protein must have killed off their kidneys since they arent allowed to have any" which is completely wrong and false.

Like i always say, the #1 kidney killers are hypertension and hyperglycemia (high blood pressure and high blood sugar). Protein does not harm kidneys, but when your kidneys don't work anymore, they can't excrete the byproducts of protein intake and those byproducts build up in the blood and can cause problems.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> My BP is fine,
> 
> BUT in 2019 I used low dose tbol for months and iirc my BP was high during those months.
> 
> Yes I'm the one who did weighted dips but I stopped since some months because of a small shoulder injury.
> 
> The worst thing is that I have lightheadedness constantly since some time and I thought it was from high RBC/hematocrit , but I'm at 16/46 so totally normal..
> 
> I do get out of breath when I do my trainings but not at rest.
> 
> I read symptoms of LVH (that I already had years ago from the cardiologist examen) :
> 
> -lightheadedness and vertigo (I have) and it's really annoying. it feels like I can fall down any moment and that make me want to stay at home.
> 
> -shortness of breath , I have but not all day, just when I train , and not as much as when I had high RBC.
> 
> -Fatigue , i have and that s the one that worries me the most , my eyes are so heavy the same way when you had a bad nap. it's all day the same for months now even after 8 hours sleep.
> 
> -Chest pain, I have since 3 days now.
> 
> -Dizziness,faiting, well dizziness I have.
> 
> -Heart palpitations, I have sometimes but not that much.
> 
> I see my cardiologist in 2 weeks.
> 
> I ordered COQ10 200mg , pygnogenol 100mg, citrus bergamot 500mg.
> 
> My LDL/HDL are normal, everything s normal on blood test.


 What supplements are you taking? Are you using any potassium supplements? Do you avoid salt? What was your last ferritin reading?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> @ElChapo Hi there ive recently come off a 2 year break from steroids and training, in which time my diet was terrible admittedly.
> 
> I have been on a much healthier diet and exercise routine since January and looking and feeling much better.
> 
> However i seem to have an extended gut like its full of air all the time ? From some research ive come across DR Erik Burg DC.
> 
> He has outlined a cause could be liver Cirrhosis ? In truth i was drinking a lot of whiskey with a bad diet during my time off.
> 
> Now other than this extended / bloated gut i have no other symptoms so is there anything else it could be and how do i get rid of it ?
> 
> What would be best for liver support or even to help repair ? I have some TUDCA in my stash already would you suggest anything else?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


 The most likely cause is just visceral fat accumulation. A lot of the fat gain was likely inside your gut behind the abs. This gives you that bloated belly look. It should come off with a good cut.

If you started cutting recently, you could also be holding a lot of water from cortisol spike. Are you taking any AAS?

It generally takes many years of hard drinking to cook the liver unless you also have any hepatitis viruses. I doubt it's your liver, TUDCA can repair liver in some research. You could test AST/ALT for starters but i don't think it's ascites(bloat you get from cancer/liver problems)/liver issues.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> The most likely cause is just visceral fat accumulation. A lot of the fat gain was likely inside your gut behind the abs. This gives you that bloated belly look. It should come off with a good cut.
> 
> If you started cutting recently, you could also be holding a lot of water from cortisol spike. Are you taking any AAS?
> 
> It generally takes many years of hard drinking to cook the liver unless you also have any hepatitis viruses. I doubt it's your liver, TUDCA can repair liver in some research. You could test AST/ALT for starters but i don't think it's ascites(bloat you get from cancer/liver problems)/liver issues.


 Ive started cutting yes but not on any AAS yet i only just got my order today i have test and Anavar and winstrol to do a nice little cut.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

@ElChapo

I am fine mentally while on tren but always a couple of weeks after I come off onto a cruise I turn into an emotional wreck. What could be the cause of this and is there a way to mitigate it ? Thank you.


----------



## Dute

Hi Elchapo,

I saw your post saying that oral aas are fine well past the use by date given...if I remember correctly it was 10years after manufacturer as a minimum.

Also that oils are fine indefinitely.....after reading that info my question is: how about once the vial is penetrated and air has obviously gone inside? Is there now a life on this oil? Particularly bacteria wise...would it be prudent to use it within a set time frame? (Obviously sterile needle, bung swabbed with alcohol)

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Ive started cutting yes but not on any AAS yet i only just got my order today i have test and Anavar and winstrol to do a nice little cut.


 You might be holding a lot of water in your belly from the cut. It happens to me. Its caused by cortisol and hormones your body increases during caloric deficit.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I am fine mentally while on tren but always a couple of weeks after I come off onto a cruise I turn into an emotional wreck. What could be the cause of this and is there a way to mitigate it ? Thank you.


 Trenbolone affects neurotransmitters like serotonin and oxytocin. Coming off means changes in those chemicals which can affect mood.

Do you do cardio? That helps boost those chemicals naturally. What are you taking for the cruise?


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi Elchapo,
> 
> I saw your post saying that oral aas are fine well past the use by date given...if I remember correctly it was 10years after manufacturer as a minimum.
> 
> Also that oils are fine indefinitely.....after reading that info my question is: how about once the vial is penetrated and air has obviously gone inside? Is there now a life on this oil? Particularly bacteria wise...would it be prudent to use it within a set time frame? (Obviously sterile needle, bung swabbed with alcohol)
> 
> Many thanks


 That's why oils are made with benzyl alcohol. It's "bacteriostatic" which means it stops or slows down bacterial growth.

It still won't be an issue. Never heard of anyone getting infection or abscess from using an old vial, even after using it in the past. Benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate and oil are not very friendly to bacteria.


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> That's why oils are made with benzyl alcohol. It's "bacteriostatic" which means it stops or slows down bacterial growth.
> 
> It still won't be an issue. Never heard of anyone getting infection or abscess from using an old vial, even after using it in the past. Benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate and oil are not very friendly to bacteria.


 You're a top bloke mate. Respect for all the advice on here.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> Trenbolone affects neurotransmitters like serotonin and oxytocin. Coming off means changes in those chemicals which can affect mood.
> 
> Do you do cardio? That helps boost those chemicals naturally. What are you taking for the cruise?


 Thanks for the response. I do 3-4 sessions of fasted cardio a week, usually 25-40 min incline walk depending on what my goals are, I always make sure my step count is above 10,000 for the day

Cruise is 300mg test e. I do take 5htp, ashwaganda, p5p and melatonin while on tren which I usually start to wind down once I switch to cruising.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> What supplements are you taking? Are you using any potassium supplements? Do you avoid salt? What was your last ferritin reading?


 Ferritin was at 40 , which is not high but I take 24mg supplement since.

I stopped potassium , I took some because my levels were a little bit low. (3.4 , normal was 3.5-4.9).

Salt is normal , I don't avoid it. I put it on my meat daily.

I have 2 weeks before my cardiologist appointment , a little worried because I feel like my head is in a bubble and I want to faint. also had 3 naps yesterday


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> You might be holding a lot of water in your belly from the cut. It happens to me. Its caused by cortisol and hormones your body increases during caloric deficit.


 would water pills help or is there anything i can do to eliminate this ?

I will be starting 300mg test and either 30mg winstrol or 50mg Anavar in 2 weeks time.


----------



## Abc987

@ElChapo. Hi mate, can you explain kidney function to me?

i see on swipes journal your comment saying his calculated Afro Caribbean egfr of 70 was excellent?

I had mine tested recently nhs had it at 80 and medichecks circa 70 but I was sorting that it was at the low end of normal range?


----------



## MrGRoberts

I've gained a lot of fat during the lockdown.

What protocol would be the most efficient to lose it as fast as possible? (Summers coming lol).

I have tried DNP before it worked well. I've tried Clen but don't like the side effects.

I have been on TRT for a while (150mg Test a week)

I upped my AAS to 300mg Test, 250mg Mast E per week a few weeks ago as I'm training more frequently now.

Thanks


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Are pycnogenol , coq10 and Citrus bergamot worth taking ?

Those are pretty expensive, I bought them already but long term is it worth it?


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> Thanks for the response. I do 3-4 sessions of fasted cardio a week, usually 25-40 min incline walk depending on what my goals are, I always make sure my step count is above 10,000 for the day
> 
> Cruise is 300mg test e. I do take 5htp, ashwaganda, p5p and melatonin while on tren which I usually start to wind down once I switch to cruising.


 Try getting a little higher intensity than a walk. Like a light jog, more benefits to your heart, brain, mood and health than walking.

Do you take any AI? during cruise? Your mood effects could be from weaning off those supplements you are taking while on tren as well.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Ferritin was at 40 , which is not high but I take 24mg supplement since.
> 
> I stopped potassium , I took some because my levels were a little bit low. (3.4 , normal was 3.5-4.9).
> 
> Salt is normal , I don't avoid it. I put it on my meat daily.
> 
> I have 2 weeks before my cardiologist appointment , a little worried because I feel like my head is in a bubble and I want to faint. also had 3 naps yesterday


 Have you donated any blood since you tested it at 40? Make sure it's at least 60-70.

When did you start and stop potassium? Do you take any magnesium? Calcium in diet or supplements? how much?

Are you taking any meds at all?


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> would water pills help or is there anything i can do to eliminate this ?
> 
> I will be starting 300mg test and either 30mg winstrol or 50mg Anavar in 2 weeks time.


 Usually a carb refeed or one week diet break will make you drop the water. Winstrol will help suck out the water as well. I would not resort to water pills/diuretics since it's a natural process of weight cutting. How long have you been cutting now and what is your deficit? Are you avoiding carbs?


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> Try getting a little higher intensity than a walk. Like a light jog, more benefits to your heart, brain, mood and health than walking.
> 
> Do you take any AI? during cruise? Your mood effects could be from weaning off those supplements you are taking while on tren as well.


 I don't use an ai

thank you for your responses so far


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> @ElChapo. Hi mate, can you explain kidney function to me?
> 
> i see on swipes journal your comment saying his calculated Afro Caribbean egfr of 70 was excellent?
> 
> I had mine tested recently nhs had it at 80 and medichecks circa 70 but I was sorting that it was at the low end of normal range?


 GFR is glomerular filtration rate, how many mL of fluid the kidneys are filtering per minute. Once you hit <15, your kidneys are cooked and you need dialysis which is a machine that filters the blood in place of your now dead kidneys.

High blood pressure and high blood sugar kill the blood vessels that supply oxygen/nutrition to your kidneys, and your kidney cells start to die. The stage of kidney damage goes from 1-5. Stage 5 AKA End stage renal disease/kidney disease is when you need dialysis because they don't filter out your blood anymore.

The general rule is that your kidneys are doing fine as long as you are over 60 GFR. 120 GFR is not necessarily better than 60 because we all have different diets, metabolism, hydration levels and muscle mass/dietary protein intake (more muscle can lower GFR reading because muscle produces byproducts that are part of the test; urea/nitrogen/creatinine).

80 GFR is 100% fine and not a problem. If GFR is under 60, you can run other tests to rule out false positive test. Men who consume a lot of protein, take creatine, or have a lot of muscle can have lower GFR. This does not mean their kidneys are filtering less, the test is just picking up those metabolites and assuming they are high because your kidneys aren't filtering but that's not the case.

Hope that answers the question but if it still doesn't make sense, let me know.


----------



## ElChapo

MrGRoberts said:


> I've gained a lot of fat during the lockdown.
> 
> What protocol would be the most efficient to lose it as fast as possible? (Summers coming lol).
> 
> I have tried DNP before it worked well. I've tried Clen but don't like the side effects.
> 
> I have been on TRT for a while (150mg Test a week)
> 
> I upped my AAS to 300mg Test, 250mg Mast E per week a few weeks ago as I'm training more frequently now.
> 
> Thanks


 1,000 calorie deficit or 30-40% deficit. 250 mg DNP + EC stack 1-2 daily. 30-60 mins light cardio daily. Lift weights 2-3 per week to preserve muscle mass.

DNP will enhance lipolysis, EC stack will increase it further, keep your energy and strength up while you cut and block appetite and cravings. Some people add 25 mcg T3 to enhance the stack as well, but it can boost the sides from EC stack like high BP/anxiety/etc. (because it sensitizes your adrenergic cells to catecholamines and analogues ; fancy word for adrenaline)

ECY stack would work even better, but should only be attempted by people who have strong tolerance to stimulants, no hypertension/heart disease history or history of panic attacks/anxiety, because it can f**k you up.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> I don't use an ai
> 
> thank you for your responses so far


 What do you usually run with the tren? Testosterone? what dose?


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> GFR is glomerular filtration rate, how many mL of fluid the kidneys are filtering per minute. Once you hit <15, your kidneys are cooked and you need dialysis which is a machine that filters the blood in place of your now dead kidneys.
> 
> High blood pressure and high blood sugar kill the blood vessels that supply oxygen/nutrition to your kidneys, and your kidney cells start to die. The stage of kidney damage goes from 1-5. Stage 5 AKA End stage renal disease/kidney disease is when you need dialysis because they don't filter out your blood anymore.
> 
> The general rule is that your kidneys are doing fine as long as you are over 60 GFR. 120 GFR is not necessarily better than 60 because we all have different diets, metabolism, hydration levels and muscle mass/dietary protein intake (more muscle can lower GFR reading because muscle produces byproducts that are part of the test; urea/nitrogen/creatinine).
> 
> 80 GFR is 100% fine and not a problem. If GFR is under 60, you can run other tests to rule out false positive test. Men who consume a lot of protein, take creatine, or have a lot of muscle can have lower GFR. This does not mean their kidneys are filtering less, the test is just picking up those metabolites and assuming they are high because your kidneys aren't filtering but that's not the case.
> 
> Hope that answers the question but if it still doesn't make sense, let me know.


 Thanks for the in-depth explanation mate, makes more sense now.

from my first medichecks test 2018, my egfr was 91 and last test in March was 71 (nhs 4 weeks prior 80).

The gear is what has probably lowered it and that's what's worried me. If I keep using it'll go lower?

im now monitoring my bp eod but it's always in the back of my mind that next cycle could make it drop even lower?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Are pycnogenol , coq10 and Citrus bergamot worth taking ?
> 
> Those are pretty expensive, I bought them already but long term is it worth it?


 The two i always recommend are pycnogenol and curcumin. They have the heaviest data behind them and help with almost everything ; brain function, mood, heart health, circulation, erections, inflammation/oxidation, disease prevention, etc. Best curcumin types are Meriva and longvida.

Other than that, i would just address possible nutrient deficiencies like vitamin D, and cardio is the most potent "supplement" known to man. Nothing is more effective for everything you can think of.

Coq10 seems to belimited in efficacy in younger healthy people but may have benefits for elderly and people with disease like heart failure.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Thanks for the in-depth explanation mate, makes more sense now.
> 
> from my first medichecks test 2018, my egfr was 91 and last test in March was 71 (nhs 4 weeks prior 80).
> 
> The gear is what has probably lowered it and that's what's worried me. If I keep using it'll go lower?
> 
> im now monitoring my bp eod but it's always in the back of my mind that next cycle could make it drop even lower?


 Do you regularly track your blood pressure? I always recommend buying a good BP monitor. Omron 3 and omron Bronze are the best bang for your buck.

The GFR can change depending on diet, training, and even AAS since they increase nitrogen levels in the muscle/blood which can artificially lower GFR (again doesn't mean it's bad for kidneys or that they are working less efficiently)

As long as your BP is not chronically elevated and you don't have diabetes, i guarantee that your kidneys will never fail unless you have direct trauma or exceedingly rare infection/disease. Keep that BP under 140/100 mmhg and blood sugar under 200 and you will 100% fine. Promise

AAS do not kill kidneys in the real world. There are "in vitro" studies showing AAS being toxic to kidney cells, but "in vitro" aka test tube studies are often useless in real world application. That level of AAS will never touch your kidney cells for multitude of reasons. If you meet someone with CKD aka chronic kidney disease or someone who needs dialysis, it's because they had high blood pressure or uncontrolled diabetes, you can ask them and confirm it.


----------



## Abc987

ElChapo said:


> Do you regularly track your blood pressure? I always recommend buying a good BP monitor. Omron 3 and omron Bronze are the best bang for your buck.
> 
> The GFR can change depending on diet, training, and even AAS since they increase nitrogen levels in the muscle/blood which can artificially lower GFR (again doesn't mean it's bad for kidneys or that they are working less efficiently)
> 
> As long as your BP is not chronically elevated and you don't have diabetes, i guarantee that your kidneys will never fail unless you have direct trauma or exceedingly rare infection/disease. Keep that BP under 140/100 mmhg and blood sugar under 200 and you will 100% fine. Promise
> 
> AAS do not kill kidneys in the real world. There are "in vitro" studies showing AAS being toxic to kidney cells, but "in vitro" aka test tube studies are often useless in real world application. That level of AAS will never touch your kidney cells for multitude of reasons. If you meet someone with CKD aka chronic kidney disease or someone who needs dialysis, it's because they had high blood pressure or uncontrolled diabetes, you can ask them and confirm it.


 Last question. Can it be improved over time?

I used to measure bp but sporadically so I could've had high bp when I first started out.

im a lot more sensible and will be monitoring it Ed/eod on cycle from now on so wondering if I keep it low egfr will raise ?

I will also be monitoring blood glucose too


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> What do you usually run with the tren? Testosterone? what dose?


 Keep the test at 300, run same amount of mast as tren, 400-600g. May also add in winny at 50mg.


----------



## ElChapo

Abc987 said:


> Last question. Can it be improved over time?
> 
> I used to measure bp but sporadically so I could've had high bp when I first started out.
> 
> im a lot more sensible and will be monitoring it Ed/eod on cycle from now on so wondering if I keep it low egfr will raise ?
> 
> I will also be monitoring blood glucose too


 Your real GFR or the test result? Your real GFR is likely static and will stay the same through out life unless you have kidney damage.

Your GFR result can vary depending on your diet. If you went vegan, drank a ton of water, and lost muscle, you could probably hit 100, but it doesn't mean your kidneys are filtering more or better than before. Technically the GFR test, is "eGFR" aka Estimate GFR since it's estimating your filtration rate by measuring metabolites in your blood.

I think my first answer is what you were looking for and yes, i am confident your healthy kidneys will stay healthy as long as you keep your BP under control and don't get diabetes.

The best way to monitor diabetes risk/status is to get an hba1c AKA glycated hemoglobin blood test. As long as your result is under 5.8% you are completely safe from diabetes. You can test this once a year. Diabetics hba1c will be over 6.4%, poorly controlled diabetic +9% and extremely poorly controlled +12%. That's when you get kidney damage, vision loss, neuropathy, erectile dysfunction, loss of toes/limbs, etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> Keep the test at 300, run same amount of mast as tren, 400-600g. May also add in winny at 50mg.


 Then i'm sure it's just the tren messing with your head. Tren and deca have been proven to mess with neurotransmitters/actions in the brain. They are in the same family.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Usually a carb refeed or one week diet break will make you drop the water. Winstrol will help suck out the water as well. I would not resort to water pills/diuretics since it's a natural process of weight cutting. How long have you been cutting now and what is your deficit? Are you avoiding carbs?


 Ive been cutting 3 month slowly and right now im around 800-1000 deficit low carbs to start and down to around 100 daily now.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> Ive been cutting 3 month slowly and right now im around 800-1000 deficit low carbs to start and down to around 100 daily now.


 Yep, so you need a diet break by now. Take a week off. Eat maintenance and normal carbs. Enjoy your food. Stop training for the week as well. Watch the magic happen.

You will come back stronger and leaner, water will drop off and your metabolism will be improved. Long periods of low carb/calories drops your leptin levels. Leptin is the master fat loss/metabolism hormone. The only way to increase it again is to take a break from diet, increase carbs. Aim for 200 min grams of carbs during the diet break.


----------



## MrGRoberts

ElChapo said:


> 1,000 calorie deficit or 30-40% deficit. 250 mg DNP + EC stack 1-2 daily. 30-60 mins light cardio daily. Lift weights 2-3 per week to preserve muscle mass.
> 
> DNP will enhance lipolysis, EC stack will increase it further, keep your energy and strength up while you cut and block appetite and cravings. Some people add 25 mcg T3 to enhance the stack as well, but it can boost the sides from EC stack like high BP/anxiety/etc. (because it sensitizes your adrenergic cells to catecholamines and analogues ; fancy word for adrenaline)
> 
> ECY stack would work even better, but should only be attempted by people who have strong tolerance to stimulants, no hypertension/heart disease history or history of panic attacks/anxiety, because it can f**k you up.


 Thank you.

I shall leave the last suggestion alone considering I've suffered with anxiety in the past. No thanks :lol:


----------



## Dr Gearhead

ElChapo said:


> Then i'm sure it's just the tren messing with your head. Tren and deca have been proven to mess with neurotransmitters/actions in the brain. They are in the same family.


 Thanks. I did wonder if it was related to serotonin and dopamine ? If so any ideas on which one may be the culprit how to regulate them ? 
thanks again for all your help


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo after reading what you said about niacin and it having the same side-effects as statins should I supplement niacin if my cholesterol is fine?

I blast and cruised for about five years but for the last two years all I do now 250 mg every 10 days


----------



## swole troll

ElChapo said:


> I think my first answer is what you were looking for and yes, i am confident your healthy kidneys will stay healthy as long as you keep your BP under control and don't get diabetes.


 How about those dieting down extremely lean, dehydrating and taking diuretics for a contest,

This is also a factor in kidney damage no?

I'm not trying to be pedantic, just getting everything on the table as a lot of the guys on here have been concerned with renal health lately.

I think perhaps due to the likes of Flex Wheeler, Tom Price, Marius Dohne and even lesser successful bodybuilders likes Bostin Loyd and Ben Chow.

Even Fouad Abiad had to recently pull out of a contest prep and knock his career on the head due to concerns over his kidney health.

A lot mentioned arn't recent cases but kidney damage does certainly seem to be fairly prevalent amongst users, seems to be the next cause of serious health concern after heart and clot related issues.


----------



## Spaniel

Hi @ElChapo

On a 12 week cycle (12 week test e 600mg, 10 week tren e 400mg). Is it necessary to use HCG?

What week should it be started? I have read about people using during cycle and people saying use after as PCT.


----------



## arbffgadm100

swole troll said:


> How about those dieting down extremely lean, dehydrating and taking diuretics for a contest,
> 
> This is also a factor in kidney damage no?
> 
> I'm not trying to be pedantic, just getting everything on the table as a lot of the guys on here have been concerned with renal health lately.
> 
> I think perhaps due to the likes of Flex Wheeler, Tom Price, Marius Dohne and even lesser successful bodybuilders likes Bostin Loyd and Ben Chow.
> 
> Even Fouad Abiad had to recently pull out of a contest prep and knock his career on the head due to concerns over his kidney health.
> 
> A lot mentioned arn't recent cases but kidney damage does certainly seem to be fairly prevalent amongst users, seems to be the next cause of serious health concern after heart and clot related issues.


 I listened to a podcast with Broderick Chavez and FA recently where he (FA) said, "anything less than 1g of test an im going backwards. 500mg doesn't do anything for me. I can't even feel it."

The implication is he's been on a gram a week for .... who knows how long (plus more when blasting).

Unreal.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Yep, so you need a diet break by now. Take a week off. Eat maintenance and normal carbs. Enjoy your food. Stop training for the week as well. Watch the magic happen.
> 
> You will come back stronger and leaner, water will drop off and your metabolism will be improved. Long periods of low carb/calories drops your leptin levels. Leptin is the master fat loss/metabolism hormone. The only way to increase it again is to take a break from diet, increase carbs. Aim for 200 min grams of carbs during the diet break.


 One last question about weight gain/loss, ive had epilepsy for 36 years now and taking sodium valporate daily.

I read that sodium valporate kills the male hormone testosterone, so i had mine tested some years ago.

Results were 0.8nmol on 3 separate blood tests. My doctor wouldnt prescribe trt so i began taking it myself.

First at 125mg then i started to cycle trt and have done for 5 years until 2 years ago i stopped all AAS and training.

My question is with having low testosterone will my estrogen be high and will it cause weight gain and likely make losing weight harder ?

And if so would it be of benefit to always run some amount of testosterone ?


----------



## Pancake'

Could you do less amounts of cardio providing the cardio that you did was forms of HIIT and yet still receive similar or even greater health benefits? let's say 2 sessions a week of sprints versus 3-4 mild-moderate jogs. in terms of improving overall fitness and health benefits what would be superior? I do recall you stating both types challenge and work the heart differently. Thanks I'm advance.


----------



## ElChapo

Dr Gearhead said:


> Thanks. I did wonder if it was related to serotonin and dopamine ? If so any ideas on which one may be the culprit how to regulate them ?
> thanks again for all your help


 Anything you would do to "regulate" would just cause withdrawal anyways, The best bet is to stop using tren or just let it ride out.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo after reading what you said about niacin and it having the same side-effects as statins should I supplement niacin if my cholesterol is fine?
> 
> I blast and cruised for about five years but for the last two years all I do now 250 mg every 10 days


 I wouldn't use it myself. Cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Sedentary lifestyle, obesity and high blood pressure are the ones to be concerned about.


----------



## ElChapo

swole troll said:


> How about those dieting down extremely lean, dehydrating and taking diuretics for a contest,
> 
> This is also a factor in kidney damage no?
> 
> I'm not trying to be pedantic, just getting everything on the table as a lot of the guys on here have been concerned with renal health lately.
> 
> I think perhaps due to the likes of Flex Wheeler, Tom Price, Marius Dohne and even lesser successful bodybuilders likes Bostin Loyd and Ben Chow.
> 
> Even Fouad Abiad had to recently pull out of a contest prep and knock his career on the head due to concerns over his kidney health.
> 
> A lot mentioned arn't recent cases but kidney damage does certainly seem to be fairly prevalent amongst users, seems to be the next cause of serious health concern after heart and clot related issues.


 There is no mechanism by which getting super lean (even starvation) or dehydration can damage the kidneys in the long term, but it can cause temporary reduction in function. Severe hydration/Diuretics abuse can induce acute kidney injury. This is temporary/transient condition but it can put you in the hospital. The disease process is different from chronic kidney disease/failure.

Many believe Flex Wheeler has diabetes, they cut off his leg which is most commonly seen in diabetes or those with vascular issues. IFBB pros are extremely like to have significant hypertension for many years. Not sure if he has diabetes but he claims he has some genetic kidney issue as well.

Bostin Loyd's blood pressure was likely +200/110 mmhg for almost a decade non-stop. The thing with high blood pressure is that generally, it's asymptomatic, so people look at their blood work and thing everything is fine. Like i always say, blood work really doesn't tell you s**t about what steroids are doing to your body. The only thing it's going to show is elevated liver enzymes, elevated red blood cells, and cholesterol changes. It really is a false sense of security for most people. I'm sure Bostin is a good example of this.

It's the hypertension.


----------



## ElChapo

Spaniel said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> On a 12 week cycle (12 week test e 600mg, 10 week tren e 400mg). Is it necessary to use HCG?
> 
> What week should it be started? I have read about people using during cycle and people saying use after as PCT.


 Necessary is relative. If you are going to PCT, you really should be taking HCG and ideally HMG (but expensive and hard to obtain). It will increase your changes of recovery, just not that the cycle you propose is very suppressive. It's important to get pre-cycle labs on your testosterone so you know your baseline and can gauge success of PCT/Recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

arbffgadm100 said:


> I listened to a podcast with Broderick Chavez and FA recently where he (FA) said, "anything less than 1g of test an im going backwards. 500mg doesn't do anything for me. I can't even feel it."
> 
> The implication is he's been on a gram a week for .... who knows how long (plus more when blasting).
> 
> Unreal.


 It's all relative. Depending on muscularity/experience level, genetics, goals, 500 mg could be too little and vice versa. Many guys just "want to look good naked" and don't need as much as they take to see results. Some guys muscles don't respond as well at the receptor level to AAS mg per mg, and others just high doses as a crutch for poor nutrition/training/recovery.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> One last question about weight gain/loss, ive had epilepsy for 36 years now and taking sodium valporate daily.
> 
> I read that sodium valporate kills the male hormone testosterone, so i had mine tested some years ago.
> 
> Results were 0.8nmol on 3 separate blood tests. My doctor wouldnt prescribe trt so i began taking it myself.
> 
> First at 125mg then i started to cycle trt and have done for 5 years until 2 years ago i stopped all AAS and training.
> 
> My question is with having low testosterone will my estrogen be high and will it cause weight gain and likely make losing weight harder ?
> 
> And if so would it be of benefit to always run some amount of testosterone ?


 Having low testosterone puts you at risk many many health issues and diseases; dementia, osteoporosis, prostate cancer, depression/anxiety, diabetes, obesity, etc.

Yes, low testosterone increases risk of fat gain. Low testosterone is very bad for your health, wellbeing, and quality of life.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Could you do less amounts of cardio providing the cardio that you did was forms of HIIT and yet still receive similar or even greater health benefits? let's say 2 sessions a week of sprints versus 3-4 mild-moderate jogs. in terms of improving overall fitness and health benefits what would be superior? I do recall you stating both types challenge and work the heart differently. Thanks I'm advance.


 There is a special benefit from moderate jogs, it makes the heart and blood vessels more flexible and expands them. Benefits you don't get from HIIT/sprints or walking.

Lifting weights can give you adaptations similar to sprinting already.


----------



## GeordieOak70

ElChapo said:


> Having low testosterone puts you at risk many many health issues and diseases; dementia, osteoporosis, prostate cancer, depression/anxiety, diabetes, obesity, etc.
> 
> Yes, low testosterone increases risk of fat gain. Low testosterone is very bad for your health, wellbeing, and quality of life.


 So basically when i took the unplanned 2 year training rest and stopped AAS ive shot myself in the foot.

Ok thank you for the help im about to start 300 teste 30mg winstrol i have other meds like deca eq anadrol anavar also.


----------



## ElChapo

GeordieOak70 said:


> So basically when i took the unplanned 2 year training rest and stopped AAS ive shot myself in the foot.
> 
> Ok thank you for the help im about to start 300 teste 30mg winstrol i have other meds like deca eq anadrol anavar also.


 Yes, the dose makes the poison. Testosterone is very good and important for your health.


----------



## Djibril

Addings to what was mentioned above regarding fouad abiad kidney health, he has said numerous times that he had uncontrolled high blood pressure for many years and as we all know that can put your kidneys in a really bad state.


----------



## Luke Cage

El Chapo. What dose of primo would you recommend to sn experienced steroid user who hasn't used for about 8 years? Do you think 1000mg is overkill? Especially with me being 260 lbs? Many thanks


----------



## arbffgadm100

Pancake' said:


> Could you do less amounts of cardio providing the cardio that you did was forms of HIIT and yet still receive similar or even greater health benefits? let's say 2 sessions a week of sprints versus 3-4 mild-moderate jogs. in terms of improving overall fitness and health benefits what would be superior? I do recall you stating both types challenge and work the heart differently. Thanks I'm advance.


 No.


----------



## arbffgadm100

ElChapo said:


> It's all relative. Depending on muscularity/experience level, genetics, goals, 500 mg could be too little and vice versa. Many guys just "want to look good naked" and don't need as much as they take to see results. Some guys muscles don't respond as well at the receptor level to AAS mg per mg, and others just high doses as a crutch for poor nutrition/training/recovery.


 For sure, 500mg could be too little for him to _progress_ (already gigantic and lean, and no doubt by proxy incredibly strong). But the idea that you can be on 1g of test a week as a minimum dose to make progress and not suffer health consequences is surely absurd. There's no amount of cardio and supplements and clean eating that will protect you from that dose over the long run.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Addings to what was mentioned above regarding fouad abiad kidney health, he has said numerous times that he had uncontrolled high blood pressure for many years and as we all know that can put your kidneys in a really bad state.


 It is the #1 kidney killer. 90% of kidney failure (chronic") are from uncontrolled hypertension and diabetes. It can be fully avoided too. Its due to noncompliance or lack of knowledge.


----------



## ElChapo

Luke Cage said:


> El Chapo. What dose of primo would you recommend to sn experienced steroid user who hasn't used for about 8 years? Do you think 1000mg is overkill? Especially with me being 260 lbs? Many thanks


 1 gram after 8 year break makes no sense.

I would focus on getting lean, not sure what your bodyfat is, but i would aim for 8-15% and stay there permanently. Not sure what your level of muscularity is but 150/150 mg Test and primo or 300/300 to cut down is something i might consider in your shoes., but for health and aesthetics, get lean. Then you can focus on building strength and muscle.


----------



## Luke Cage

ElChapo said:


> 1 gram after 8 year break makes no sense.
> 
> I would focus on getting lean, not sure what your bodyfat is, but i would aim for 8-15% and stay there permanently. Not sure what your level of muscularity is but 150/150 mg Test and primo or 300/300 to cut down is something i might consider in your shoes., but for health and aesthetics, get lean. Then you can focus on building strength and muscle.


 Yes bodyfat is up so will look to get really lean. Thanks


----------



## hondastu

Hi @ElChapo What dose of Pycnogenol do you recommend per day? And any particular brand you trust?

Additionally, what dose of Meriva you take? I've been taking 500mg, but wondering about increasing to 1000mg


----------



## ElChapo

hondastu said:


> Hi @ElChapo What dose of Pycnogenol do you recommend per day? And any particular brand you trust?
> 
> Additionally, what dose of Meriva you take? I've been taking 500mg, but wondering about increasing to 1000mg


 100-200 mg. Healthy origins pycnogenol is the best priced.

Meriva ; 500-1000 mg with dinner


----------



## Whoremoan1

@ElChapo

not sure if i read it here, but i definetly heard it from someone smart

and they were saying nolvadex can skew some blood tests when testing for estro is this true??


----------



## SlinMeister

@El Chapo

in your opinion, is that possible to use EQ as "estradiol base" instead of Testosterone?

It seems that some drugs like Nandrolone or Boldenone without a test base work in a different way than when stacked on test. Broscience or not?

I noticed also Broderick Chavez suggesting this type of approach lots of times, instead of using... let's say 250 TestE 300 NPP 350 W he advises to go for 600 EQ 300 NPP 350 W.

His idea is that we can use this approach to improve Hematology markers. 16% Hemoglobin would be ideal for bodybuilding.

What's your opinion?


----------



## ElChapo

Whoremoan1 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> not sure if i read it here, but i definetly heard it from someone smart
> 
> and they were saying nolvadex can skew some blood tests when testing for estro is this true??


 Yes, and it can increase estradiol levels as well.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> in your opinion, is that possible to use EQ as "estradiol base" instead of Testosterone?
> 
> It seems that some drugs like Nandrolone or Boldenone without a test base work in a different way than when stacked on test. Broscience or not?
> 
> I noticed also Broderick Chavez suggesting this type of approach lots of times, instead of using... let's say 250 TestE 300 NPP 350 W he advises to go for 600 EQ 300 NPP 350 W.
> 
> His idea is that we can use this approach to improve Hematology markers. 16% Hemoglobin would be ideal for bodybuilding.
> 
> What's your opinion?


 Maybe, as far as i know, it does not aromatize nearly as much, but that's in the blood, the tissues might be able to convert to sufficient amounts.

The broscience tends to be half true a lot of the time.

A lot of guys in the middle east friends have told me use EQ in place of testosterone with great results. I see no issue with it, but long term, we don't know. As long as estradiol is minimum of 20 pg/mL or in your units around 74 pmol/L


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo is Coq10 safe to take year round?


----------



## Spaniel

ElChapo said:


> Necessary is relative. If you are going to PCT, you really should be taking HCG and ideally HMG (but expensive and hard to obtain). It will increase your changes of recovery, just not that the cycle you propose is very suppressive. It's important to get pre-cycle labs on your testosterone so you know your baseline and can gauge success of PCT/Recovery.


 Hello @ElChapo,

How many days after the last test e injection would you start HCG?

Would starting HCG 10 days after last test e injection at 500 eod for 12 days then stop and start the nolvadex/clomid?

Day 10 after injection ,12,14,16,18,20,22- 500iu HCG

Day 23 Clomid 150 mg + Nolva 60 mg
Days 24 - 32 Clomid 100 mg + Nolva 40 mg 
Days 33 - 43 Clomid 50 mg + Nolva 20 mg 
Days 44 - 52 Nolva 20 mg


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo is Coq10 safe to take year round?


 Yeah, it's found in high amounts in animal hearts. Some people eat that


----------



## G-man99

@ElChapo

What are your thoughts on salting all your meals using a good quality salt ie Himalayan or Maldon


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo hope all is well.

What's your thoughts on EPO (evening primrose oil) as an addition to supplementation stack?

Been reading a few bits on it recently and how the GLA (omega 6) Content in them can have loads of benefits, mainly for skin( i suffer from eczema and dry skin)? also has benefits on inflammation, heart health, BP, cognitive fuction etc?

Sounds like a good supplement to add as there's hardly no GLA in foods from our diets so to supplement with 1000mg a day would be beneficial do you think? We can get loads of omega 3 from our diets, but not omega 6?

Is there any interactions between EPO and other vitamin supplements? It says it doesn't interact with any supplements only prescription medicines like anti depression medications, blood pressure and blood thinning medicines. Currently using fish oil, vitamin d3, k2, zinc, vit c, multivitamin, probiotic and taladifil daily.

I'm still currently reading studies on it at the moment myself before I use it, but a professional opinion from yourself in the field is appreciated.

Many thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What are your thoughts on salting all your meals using a good quality salt ie Himalayan or Maldon


 I think its overrated. Salt is salt


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Hi @ElChapo hope all is well.
> 
> What's your thoughts on EPO (evening primrose oil) as an addition to supplementation stack?
> 
> Been reading a few bits on it recently and how the GLA (omega 6) Content in them can have loads of benefits, mainly for skin( i suffer from eczema and dry skin)? also has benefits on inflammation, heart health, BP, cognitive fuction etc?
> 
> Sounds like a good supplement to add as there's hardly no GLA in foods from our diets so to supplement with 1000mg a day would be beneficial do you think? We can get loads of omega 3 from our diets, but not omega 6?
> 
> Is there any interactions between EPO and other vitamin supplements? It says it doesn't interact with any supplements only prescription medicines like anti depression medications, blood pressure and blood thinning medicines. Currently using fish oil, vitamin d3, k2, zinc, vit c, multivitamin, probiotic and taladifil daily.
> 
> I'm still currently reading studies on it at the moment myself before I use it, but a professional opinion from yourself in the field is appreciated.
> 
> Many thanks.


 Looks good on paper. So i dont think it would hurt.

The #1 supplement is regular cardiovascular exercise, nothing is more potent for inflammation, brain function, disease prevention, mood etc.

Generally, natural food products dont have interaction with medications or other supplements unless they are pharmaceutically potent like caffeine in coffee, yohimbine in yohimbe, etc.

Becareful with the zinc, as it can cause copper deficiency. you dont need a lot and if you eat a lot of meat, i wouldnt suggest taking it regularly. Your multivitamin probably contains enough zinc a long with your meat intake.

Cialis/tadalafil: be attentive as some people get subtle brain fog and mood changes on it.


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> I think its overrated. Salt is salt


 Ok, to simplify.

Do you think using more salt than usual is a good thing?

Also whilst I have your attention.

If using EC stack twice daily, is there an optimum time to take each dose?

Upon waking and dinner time?

Before or after food?

Thanks


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Looks good on paper. So i dont think it would hurt.
> 
> The #1 supplement is regular cardiovascular exercise, nothing is more potent for inflammation, brain function, disease prevention, mood etc.
> 
> Generally, natural food products dont have interaction with medications or other supplements unless they are pharmaceutically potent like caffeine in coffee, yohimbine in yohimbe, etc.
> 
> Becareful with the zinc, as it can cause copper deficiency. you dont need a lot and if you eat a lot of meat, i wouldnt suggest taking it regularly. Your multivitamin probably contains enough zinc a long with your meat intake.
> 
> Cialis/tadalafil: be attentive as some people get subtle brain fog and mood changes on it.


 Brilliant, for £12 a month I'll give it ago, any brands you recommend for it? Currently looking at efamol EPO, its got 33% more GLA than most brands I've researched and been used successfully in human trials?

I normally take my supplements 2 hours after s coffee to prevent the caffeine interactions

Currently using 30mg zinc, 25mg from my zinc supplement and 5mg from multivitamin, i do eat alot of meat, only white meat though like chicken and turkey with the occasional steak or steak pieces, also eat salmon too, i eat alot of kale, broccoli, so will drop the zinc supplement and just use the zinc in multivitamin

I've used taladifl for quite some time, only 2.5mg daily since starting self trt

Thank you


----------



## TITO

Rob27 said:


> i do eat alot of meat, only white meat though like chicken and turkey


 What's your beef with red meat? (Pardon the pun)


----------



## TITO

@ElChapo

Are you Derrick from the YouTube channel "more plates more dates"?


----------



## ElChapo

G-man99 said:


> Ok, to simplify.
> 
> Do you think using more salt than usual is a good thing?
> 
> Also whilst I have your attention.
> 
> If using EC stack twice daily, is there an optimum time to take each dose?
> 
> Upon waking and dinner time?
> 
> Before or after food?
> 
> Thanks


 It's all relative. An athlete or someone who sweats a lot will need more salt. Just salt to taste and don't overthink it. No need to avoid or add more than you need for flavor.

Salt is villified by many due to outdated medical literature and recommendations for daily intake has been increased substantially in the recent past.

Waking and at noon, this reduces risk of insomnia and poor sleep which can undermine a successful cut by adding stress, hunger and impeding recovery from training. Never past noon is my recommendation and personally never needed more than one dose in the morning when i had used it.

Food timing won't matter, but fasted cardio on ephedrine can enhance stubborn fat loss due to increase in catecholamines (adrenaline). So if you are <12% consider that an option.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Brilliant, for £12 a month I'll give it ago, any brands you recommend for it? Currently looking at efamol EPO, its got 33% more GLA than most brands I've researched and been used successfully in human trials?
> 
> I normally take my supplements 2 hours after s coffee to prevent the caffeine interactions
> 
> Currently using 30mg zinc, 25mg from my zinc supplement and 5mg from multivitamin, i do eat alot of meat, only white meat though like chicken and turkey with the occasional steak or steak pieces, also eat salmon too, i eat alot of kale, broccoli, so will drop the zinc supplement and just use the zinc in multivitamin
> 
> I've used taladifl for quite some time, only 2.5mg daily since starting self trt
> 
> Thank you


 I like NOW foods, life extension, jarrow and doctors best products.

Chicken has some zinc, so eating a lot will cover you.

No problem


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Are you Derrick from the YouTube channel "more plates more dates"?


 No, his knowledge is quite limited. I know he prefers T3 as his fat burner, objectively the worst fat burner available (increased hunger, flat/weaker/less endurance muscle). He's alright.


----------



## Spaniel

Hello @ElChapo

Struggling to get my head around HCG.

How many days after the last test e injection would you start HCG?

Would it be ok to start HCG 10 days after last test e injection at 500 eod for 12 days then stop and start the nolvadex/clomid?

Day 10 after injection ,12,14,16,18,20,22- 500iu HCG

Day 23 Clomid 150 mg + Nolva 60 mg
Days 24 - 32 Clomid 100 mg + Nolva 40 mg 
Days 33 - 43 Clomid 50 mg + Nolva 20 mg 
Days 44 - 52 Nolva 20 mg

What would be you recommended way to use HCG?


----------



## TITO

ElChapo said:


> No, his knowledge is quite limited. I know he prefers T3 as his fat burner, objectively the worst fat burner available (increased hunger, flat/weaker/less endurance muscle). He's alright.


 He's an amateur, I'm gonna get you a YouTube channel going. It will consist of us muppets on UKM asking you questions and you answering them with an @ElChapo accent. We will steal derricks followers within days


----------



## ElChapo

Spaniel said:


> Hello @ElChapo
> 
> Struggling to get my head around HCG.
> 
> How many days after the last test e injection would you start HCG?
> 
> Would it be ok to start HCG 10 days after last test e injection at 500 eod for 12 days then stop and start the nolvadex/clomid?
> 
> Day 10 after injection ,12,14,16,18,20,22- 500iu HCG
> 
> Day 23 Clomid 150 mg + Nolva 60 mg
> Days 24 - 32 Clomid 100 mg + Nolva 40 mg
> Days 33 - 43 Clomid 50 mg + Nolva 20 mg
> Days 44 - 52 Nolva 20 mg
> 
> What would be you recommended way to use HCG?


 The proper use of HCG is DURING cycle, not after. You should take HCG the same day you start your cycle and stop when your cycle ends.

1,500 IU split twice or three times per week, HMG is even better and more effect and can be run at +200 IU per week but more expensive and difficult to source.

That's a lot of fu**ing clomid high risk of vision problems (sometimes permanent) i would not go over 100 mg daily.


----------



## ElChapo

TITO said:


> He's an amateur, I'm gonna get you a YouTube channel going. It will consist of us muppets on UKM asking you questions and you answering them with an @ElChapo accent. We will steal derricks followers within days


 I don't need followers or fame. I'm good.


----------



## Rob27

TITO said:


> What's your beef with red meat? (Pardon the pun)


 None, prefer white. I do eat red meat, rarely though


----------



## G-man99

ElChapo said:


> It's all relative. An athlete or someone who sweats a lot will need more salt. Just salt to taste and don't overthink it. No need to avoid or add more than you need for flavor.
> 
> Salt is villified by many due to outdated medical literature and recommendations for daily intake has been increased substantially in the recent past.
> 
> Waking and at noon, this reduces risk of insomnia and poor sleep which can undermine a successful cut by adding stress, hunger and impeding recovery from training. Never past noon is my recommendation and personally never needed more than one dose in the morning when i had used it.
> 
> Food timing won't matter, but fasted cardio on ephedrine can enhance stubborn fat loss due to increase in catecholamines (adrenaline). So if you are <12% consider that an option.


 Thank you mate


----------



## delbo

Hi @ElChapo@ElChapo nothing fitness related here but do you have any knowledge on how to cure or even lessen the symptoms of psoriasis? My younger brother is covered all over his body. It's starting to go into his spine also. He has tried various creams, medication etc and he is starting biologics injections in the next few weeks. Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Hi @ElChapo@ElChapo nothing fitness related here but do you have any knowledge on how to cure or even lessen the symptoms of psoriasis? My younger brother is covered all over his body. It's starting to go into his spine also. He has tried various creams, medication etc and he is starting biologics injections in the next few weeks. Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.


 Has he ever tried Triamcinolone cream? It works magic for autoimmune skin conditions.

Also, make sure his vitamin D levels are optimal, this tends to prevent and reduce the severity of autoimmune condition flare ups. He should take 5,000 IU vitamin D3 after a meal containing fat, daily. If he's in the UK, he is likely very deficient in vitamin D which predisposes to autoimmune disease.

Order test strips from amazon for water hardness. Hard water will dry out skin and flare up conditions like psoriasis. If the water is hard, investing in a water softener will greatly relieve/reduce and perhaps even stop the issue. Hard water contains high amounts of calcium and magnesium, a water softener pulls those minerals out of the water. He should shower in cold to lukewarm water, no hot water, which driess out the skin.

Finally, tanning with a bed or sunlight is known to be one of the most effective therapies for the condition.

It doesn't hurt to test thyroid hormones, testosterone/estradiol, , etc to see if there is anything there and vitamin D is really really important to keep track of for patients with autoimmune issues.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> Also, make sure his vitamin D levels are optimal, this tends to prevent and reduce the severity of autoimmune condition flare ups. He should take 5,000 IU vitamin D3 after a meal containing fat, daily. If he's in the UK, he is likely very deficient in vitamin D which predisposes to autoimmune disease.


 Have you seen much evidence to support 5,000 ius being a safe and clinically tried dose? I was recently watching Pete Rubish he seems to believe that with him consuming 10,000 being a culprit to him p*ssing pink. that's being his own anecdotal experience. I stopped consuming as contemplated that it's use may contribute to the development of kidney stones over time.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Have you seen much evidence to support 5,000 ius being a safe and clinically tried dose? I was recently watching Pete Rubish he seems to believe that with him consuming 10,000 being a culprit to him p*ssing pink. that's being his own anecdotal experience. I stopped consuming as contemplated that it's use may contribute to the development of kidney stones over time.


 10,000 IU is a good loading dose for deficiency but not recommended long term, it will get most people on the upper end or over. Anything over 60 ng/mL is not naturally attainable. People who get healthy amounts of sunlight year round tend to fall around 40-60 ng/mL, which most will achieve taking 5,000 IU daily with a meal.

100-150 nmol/L in UK units = 40-60 ng/mL in American units is ideal. 5,000 IU is a good maintenance dose to keep levels here. Vitamin D levels that are too high can lead to side effects and increase risk of kidney stones. Once you go over +200 nmol/L or 80 ng/mL. A lot of health nuts/quacks are obsessed with keeping levels over 70 ng/mL


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> 10,000 IU is a good loading dose for deficiency but not recommended long term, it will get most people on the upper end or over. Anything over 60 ng/mL is not naturally attainable. People who get healthy amounts of sunlight year round tend to fall around 40-60 ng/mL, which most will achieve taking 5,000 IU daily with a meal.
> 
> 100-150 nmol/L in UK units = 40-60 ng/mL in American units is ideal. 5,000 IU is a good maintenance dose to keep levels here. Vitamin D levels that are too high can lead to side effects and increase risk of kidney stones. Once you go over +200 nmol/L or 80 ng/mL. A lot of health nuts/quacks are obsessed with keeping levels over 70 ng/mL


 Thats interesting.

I was taking 5000 iu for a long while then increases up to 10000 daily which i was talking for 3 months yet my levels are still under 40 ( always with a fatty meal and from a reputable company NOW foods)


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Thats interesting.
> 
> I was taking 5000 iu for a long while then increases up to 10000 daily which i was talking for 3 months yet my levels are still under 40 ( always with a fatty meal and from a reputable company NOW foods)


 You seem to absorb things poorly from GI tract. You needed extremely high dose of Levo too.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> You seem to absorb things poorly from GI tract. You needed extremely high dose of Levo too.


 Is that a genetic thing or is something i should look at, and if so what exactly?

On a day to day life i can say my digestion is pretty well on point, i never had any issues

Found a good study although extreme long, there are many issues that can cause T4 malabsorption, will look a bit further into it just out of curioscity

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/40/1/118/5198605

*
Conclusion
*

Gastrointestinal malabsorption of oral T4 is more frequent than previously reputed and may account for a significant fraction of refractory hypothyroidism. On this ground, an accurate individualization of hormonal treatment helps in the detection of gastrointestinal T4 malabsorption. Although the site of T4 absorption is the small intestine, gastric pH emerges as a major prerequisite for the efficacy of tablet T4 treatment. An increased need for T4 should induce the endocrinologist to start a diagnostic workup, based on the clinical features and on the prevalence of gastrointestinal disorders.

Despite the growing number of studies, some questions are far from being clarified. The pathophysiologic mechanisms of T4 absorption at the intestinal level are not yet completely defined, as shown by a number of patients in whom the cause of an increased need for T4 remains obscure. In particular, the intestinal transport pathways, the actual contribution of the enterohepatic recycling, and the role of microbiota composition in the absorption of T4 in humans are issues for future studies.


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Is that a genetic thing or is something i should look at, and if so what exactly?
> 
> On a day to day life i can say my digestion is pretty well on point, i never had any issues
> 
> Found a good study although extreme long, there are many issues that can cause T4 malabsorption, will look a bit further into it just out of curioscity
> 
> https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/40/1/118/5198605
> 
> *
> Conclusion
> *
> 
> Gastrointestinal malabsorption of oral T4 is more frequent than previously reputed and may account for a significant fraction of refractory hypothyroidism. On this ground, an accurate individualization of hormonal treatment helps in the detection of gastrointestinal T4 malabsorption. Although the site of T4 absorption is the small intestine, gastric pH emerges as a major prerequisite for the efficacy of tablet T4 treatment. An increased need for T4 should induce the endocrinologist to start a diagnostic workup, based on the clinical features and on the prevalence of gastrointestinal disorders.
> 
> Despite the growing number of studies, some questions are far from being clarified. The pathophysiologic mechanisms of T4 absorption at the intestinal level are not yet completely defined, as shown by a number of patients in whom the cause of an increased need for T4 remains obscure. In particular, the intestinal transport pathways, the actual contribution of the enterohepatic recycling, and the role of microbiota composition in the absorption of T4 in humans are issues for future studies.


 Maybe you don't produce a lot of stomach acid or it could be your gut biome. It's not too much of an issue, as long as you are well nourished, just need to take higher doses of oral things to get your levels up, but it's good that we noticed the pattern, so now you are aware of it.

Usually this happens in patient with Crohns disease, IBS, celiacs disease, gastritis, and GI trach issues and autoimmune problems. The vili (little finger like mucous membranes) that absorb nutrients in the intestines, atrophy/shrink and become poor absorbers of food. This can be reversed if caught early in many cases.


----------



## Djibril

ElChapo said:


> Maybe you don't produce a lot of stomach acid or it could be your gut biome. It's not too much of an issue, as long as you are well nourished,* just need to take higher doses of oral things* to get your levels up, but it's good that we noticed the pattern, so now you are aware of it.
> 
> Usually this happens in patient with Crohns disease, IBS, celiacs disease, gastritis, and GI trach issues and autoimmune problems. The vili (little finger like mucous membranes) that absorb nutrients in the intestines, atrophy/shrink and become poor absorbers of food. This can be reversed if caught early in many cases.


 Lol out of curioscity, would the same apply to oral PEDS?


----------



## ElChapo

Djibril said:


> Lol out of curioscity, would the same apply to oral PEDS?


 If it's affecting Vitamin D, it's likely. Vitamin D is actually not a vitamin, it's steroid hormone like testosterone/estradiol/etc


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> If it's affecting Vitamin D, it's likely. Vitamin D is actually not a vitamin, it's steroid hormone like testosterone/estradiol/etc


 So if you suffer from hypochlorhydria taking Betaine Hcl with oral AAS would enhance absorption and bioavailability?


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> So if you suffer from hypochlorhydria taking Betaine Hcl with oral AAS would enhance absorption and bioavailability?


 Maybe , i don't know how much low stomach acid would negatively affect oral AAS absorption. Atrophied vili is a direct cause of malabsorption whereas as low stomach acid is more of a secondary cause.


----------



## Doitagain

ElChapo said:


> Maybe , i don't know how much low stomach acid would negatively affect oral AAS absorption. Atrophied vili is a direct cause of malabsorption whereas as low stomach acid is more of a secondary cause.


 Thanks. I'm asking because I know that high stomach ph can either enhance or decrease absorption depending on the specific drug. Haven't found anything about oral AAS specifically when it comes to hcl level.


----------



## ElChapo

Doitagain said:


> Thanks. I'm asking because I know that high stomach ph can either enhance or decrease absorption depending on the specific drug. Haven't found anything about oral AAS specifically when it comes to hcl level.


 End of the day, it probably won't matter that much.


----------



## delbo

Just had another horrible experience with kidney stones today. Usually get this at least once a year. Are there any ways to stop the reoccurrence? Should I eliminate sodium?


----------



## Luke Cage

El Chapo, hope you are well bro. I remember you saying in an old post that because of gene expression there is a minimum time we should be on cycle to get results. What is that please?

also I get steroid like results every time I use creatine. And that's no joke. Could it be because I have a polymorphism that doesn't allow my body to make its own?

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Just had another horrible experience with kidney stones today. Usually get this at least once a year. Are there any ways to stop the reoccurrence? Should I eliminate sodium?


 Yep, drinks lots of water and take supplements that contain citrate. Like magnesium citrate/potassium citrate. The citrate stops the formation of the crystals that turn into kidney stones. Also, make sure your vitamin D isn't too high.

Abstract

Citrate is a powerful inhibitor of the crystallization of calcium salts.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23924538/


----------



## ElChapo

Luke Cage said:


> El Chapo, hope you are well bro. I remember you saying in an old post that because of gene expression there is a minimum time we should be on cycle to get results. What is that please?
> 
> also I get steroid like results every time I use creatine. And that's no joke. Could it be because I have a polymorphism that doesn't allow my body to make its own?
> 
> thanks


 Yes, i use it in the context of winstrol/superdrol and orals. People only run them 2 weeks, they have no time to activate the genes for muscle and strength increase. I would do 8 weeks minimum.

Many people think they are getting gains when they see a rapid increase in weight/muscle size+pump during the first 4 weeks of a cycle. This is not gains, but an increase in nitrogen/glycogen in the muscle. This is temporary and is one reason guys get disappointed when they deflate off cycle or when going back down to cruise dose. Gains take time and short cycle don't give you enough time to build quality mass/strength and for the AAS to turn on those genes.

The creatine thing, do you mean you get bigger muscle/strength and it goes away? That's how creatine works, some people respond very very well to it and it's a genetic thing. Some people are non-responder. It can also be related to diet, someone who eats a lot of meat may already have topped off creatine stores in the muscle.


----------



## Luke Cage

ElChapo said:


> Yes, i use it in the context of winstrol/superdrol and orals. People only run them 2 weeks, they have no time to activate the genes for muscle and strength increase. I would do 8 weeks minimum.
> 
> Many people think they are getting gains when they see a rapid increase in weight/muscle size+pump during the first 4 weeks of a cycle. This is not gains, but an increase in nitrogen/glycogen in the muscle. This is temporary and is one reason guys get disappointed when they deflate off cycle or when going back down to cruise dose. Gains take time and short cycle don't give you enough time to build quality mass/strength and for the AAS to turn on those genes.
> 
> The creatine thing, do you mean you get bigger muscle/strength and it goes away? That's how creatine works, some people respond very very well to it and it's a genetic thing. Some people are non-responder. It can also be related to diet, someone who eats a lot of meat may already have topped off creatine stores in the muscle.


 Yeah my size and especially strength shoots up on creatine even more than most steroids.


----------



## ElChapo

Luke Cage said:


> Yeah my size and especially strength shoots up on creatine even more than most steroids.


 So you are a great responder to it. Some guys don't feel or see any results from it. On paper, it is a very powerful supplement for muscle and strength. Real world results vary from person to person though. The stuff gives me moon face and i don't see or feel much myself.


----------



## Sbless85

Hi El Chapo. Just wondering what the absolute upper limit you would say is advisable to allow you hematocrit/hemoglobin to get to whilst on cycle? Ive seen you mention keeping it below 50 before but can you have it slightly higher whilst on cycle? Thinking below 54? Many thanks for any info you may offer, keep up the great work


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate hope you are well.

What's your opinion on starting a cycle with low dose then tapering them up over the course of a few weeks.

For example 12 weeks on 500 test e 400 tren e

Or

week 1-2 - 250 test 200 tren

Week 2-3 375 test 300 tren

Week 3-4 500 test 400 tren then continue this dose to week 12

If it takes a while for these long esters to build up then surely its a waste pinning extra gear the first couple of weeks?

Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Sbless85 said:


> Hi El Chapo. Just wondering what the absolute upper limit you would say is advisable to allow you hematocrit/hemoglobin to get to whilst on cycle? Ive seen you mention keeping it below 50 before but can you have it slightly higher whilst on cycle? Thinking below 54? Many thanks for any info you may offer, keep up the great work


 I wouldn't be worry at <53%, stay hydrated, do cardio and stay lean/control BP. This goes a long way for protecting your heart. When you test HCT, make sure you are well hydrated. Being dehydrated can artificially elevate the result of your lab.

Your thinking is correct, i would keep it at 53% and under. Many guys will get symptoms when it's too high, facial flushing, shortness of breath, feeling off in general, and headaches. That's one sign that it's not good for your body. High HCT increases "shear stress" in the blood vessels, this is linked to cardiovascular damage in the long run, and the thicker blood is more likely to clot. Blood clot = stroke or heart attack .

The worst part about a stroke is permanent loss of strength on one side of your body, and sometimes even paralysis. With a heart attack, you heart will be permanently weaker, that means less stamina and overall health in general.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate hope you are well.
> 
> What's your opinion on starting a cycle with low dose then tapering them up over the course of a few weeks.
> 
> For example 12 weeks on 500 test e 400 tren e
> 
> Or
> 
> week 1-2 - 250 test 200 tren
> 
> Week 2-3 375 test 300 tren
> 
> Week 3-4 500 test 400 tren then continue this dose to week 12
> 
> If it takes a while for these long esters to build up then surely its a waste pinning extra gear the first couple of weeks?
> 
> Cheers


 I think it's overcomplicating things. Keep it simple and devote all your focus, energy and will into the things that matter ; progressive overload, caloric surplus, and sufficient rest/recovery.


----------



## Sbless85

ElChapo said:


> I wouldn't be worry at <53%, stay hydrated, do cardio and stay lean/control BP. This goes a long way for protecting your heart. When you test HCT, make sure you are well hydrated. Being dehydrated can artificially elevate the result of your lab.
> 
> Your thinking is correct, i would keep it at 53% and under. Many guys will get symptoms when it's too high, facial flushing, shortness of breath, feeling off in general, and headaches. That's one sign that it's not good for your body. High HCT increases "shear stress" in the blood vessels, this is linked to cardiovascular damage in the long run, and the thicker blood is more likely to clot. Blood clot = stroke or heart attack .
> 
> The worst part about a stroke is permanent loss of strength on one side of your body, and sometimes even paralysis. With a heart attack, you heart will be permanently weaker, that means less stamina and overall health in general.


 Great info. Many thanks for the reply


----------



## Hello32

Hi ElChapo

What do you think of drinking purified distilled water? I was thinking of buying a water distiller as hearing about all the dodgy addictive found in tap water? You can buy and re-add the minerals, not sure if this would be necessary if most minerals are gained from food?

Also how actually toxic is it drinking from plastic bottles? Is it proven?

Would love to know you thoughts on this


----------



## Volta87

@El Chapo

Hey bud. I find in the past, i bulk with Test and an Oral, with a clean diet. But when I cut, I lose my gains. Regardless, I want my next cycle to not require a cut to reach my goals.

I am on a journey to cut to 10% body fat using 300mg Tren / 150mg Test per week. Cardio and balanced diet + lifting.

Once I get to my goal, I planned on a cruise of 150mg Test for 8/12 weeks.

Assuming I don't lose muscle or add fat, I then planned on a lean bulk with Test e 250mg and Tren e 250mg for 12 week with a 300 cal surplus.

to round this up, Is this low dose Test / Tren cycle with a balance diet and small surplus likely to allow me to put on 4/5lbs of keepable muscle without adding any fat?

Thanks mate


----------



## ElChapo

Hello32 said:


> Hi ElChapo
> 
> What do you think of drinking purified distilled water? I was thinking of buying a water distiller as hearing about all the dodgy addictive found in tap water? You can buy and re-add the minerals, not sure if this would be necessary if most minerals are gained from food?
> 
> Also how actually toxic is it drinking from plastic bottles? Is it proven?
> 
> Would love to know you thoughts on this


 I suggest avoiding most tap water. Correct, the minerals will be in your food anyways. Meats, vegetables, grains, etc are rich in minerals already.

The BPA and other chemicals in plastic water build up in the body and have been linked to endocrine disruption and even cancer. It would be best to use reverse osmosis or distilled water.


----------



## ElChapo

Volta87 said:


> @El Chapo
> 
> Hey bud. I find in the past, i bulk with Test and an Oral, with a clean diet. But when I cut, I lose my gains. Regardless, I want my next cycle to not require a cut to reach my goals.
> 
> I am on a journey to cut to 10% body fat using 300mg Tren / 150mg Test per week. Cardio and balanced diet + lifting.
> 
> Once I get to my goal, I planned on a cruise of 150mg Test for 8/12 weeks.
> 
> Assuming I don't lose muscle or add fat, I then planned on a lean bulk with Test e 250mg and Tren e 250mg for 12 week with a 300 cal surplus.
> 
> to round this up, Is this low dose Test / Tren cycle with a balance diet and small surplus likely to allow me to put on 4/5lbs of keepable muscle without adding any fat?
> 
> Thanks mate


 Are you cutting on AAS or are you cutting off the AAS? A proper cut should maintain +90% of your gains in strength and muscle unless getting very very lean. After your bulk is over, are you doing PCT or going to TRT dose of testosterone?

What are you losing during the cuts? Is it strength or size? You WILL look smaller at first during a cut because intramuscular and extramuscular fat gives you more "size", and in a caloric deficit your muscles will be flatter/flabbier looking.

300 calorie surplus is good for a lean bulk. Are you practicing progressive overload?


----------



## squeezemyhernia

Hey @ElChapo

I have been BnC for the best part of 5 years now, and I want to try for a baby.

My questions are:

500iu HCG MWF. is this enough to start spermatogenesis ?

If not, what doseage might?

What are the chances of it working?

I obviously will be doing a cruise dose of test for this. Will take higher amounts of test, or other compounds IE deca, tren, ment, prevent spermatogenesis ?

Thank you


----------



## ElChapo

squeezemyhernia said:


> Hey @ElChapo
> 
> I have been BnC for the best part of 5 years now, and I want to try for a baby.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 500iu HCG MWF. is this enough to start spermatogenesis ?
> 
> If not, what doseage might?
> 
> What are the chances of it working?
> 
> I obviously will be doing a cruise dose of test for this. Will take higher amounts of test, or other compounds IE deca, tren, ment, prevent spermatogenesis ?
> 
> Thank you


 Try to get your hands on HMG. This is the #1 way to restore fertility. I've helped a lot of guys who blasted for years get their wives pregnant. HMG is very very effective at 200 IU per week with the HCG. HCG on it's own doesn't come close.

Stick to testosterone only at TRT doses. If you want a boost, winstrol will not shut you down as bad and is very anabolic/anti-catabolic.

Most importantly, you have to track your partners menstrual cycle. She will only be fertile for a few days out of the month. Generally it's a 5 day window. Day 9-14 of her cycle is when you want to time the intercourse/ejaculation.


----------



## Gymrat12

.@ElChapo , I want to ask you about other fertility drugs like gonal-F (recombinant FSH ,Luveris (Recombinant LH), pergoveris I know that these drugs are more expensive than just using HCG or HMG and require more frequent injections but are they closer to our natural way of producing FSH and LH which makes them safer - don't lead to desensitization over time - and more effective to be used while blasting and cruising for a long time to maintain fertility? and at what dose they can be used for a long time?


----------



## squeezemyhernia

ElChapo said:


> Try to get your hands on HMG. This is the #1 way to restore fertility. I've helped a lot of guys who blasted for years get their wives pregnant. HMG is very very effective at 200 IU per week with the HCG. HCG on it's own doesn't come close.
> 
> Stick to testosterone only at TRT doses. If you want a boost, winstrol will not shut you down as bad and is very anabolic/anti-catabolic.
> 
> Most importantly, you have to track your partners menstrual cycle. She will only be fertile for a few days out of the month. Generally it's a 5 day window. Day 9-14 of her cycle is when you want to time the intercourse/ejaculation.


 Amazing stuff thanks so much. And so the hunt for HMG begins!


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> .@ElChapo , I want to ask you about other fertility drugs like gonal-F (recombinant FSH ,Luveris (Recombinant LH), pergoveris I know that these drugs are more expensive than just using HCG or HMG and require more frequent injections but are they closer to our natural way of producing FSH and LH which makes them safer - don't lead to desensitization over time - and more effective to be used while blasting and cruising for a long time to maintain fertility? and at what dose they can be used for a long time?


 Nah, HMG does the job fine. It's both natural LH/FSH. It's all you need. No need to overcomplicate things. HMG is extremely effective and thankfully seems to be getting a little easier to source.

Forget safety, there is nothing unsafe about HMG. There is no desensitization. Just use HMG.


----------



## ElChapo

squeezemyhernia said:


> Amazing stuff thanks so much. And so the hunt for HMG begins!


 You can start with 1,500 IU HCG for now to get the balls working.


----------



## delbo

Winstrol dosing.. First thing in the morning or 30 mins pre workout? Empty stomach or not?

I'm thinking the early morning might help with insomnia from it


----------



## aftermath

Hi EC, what's the longest you would run test prop 300mg per week for without compromising health and fertility, for someone who cycles? Would 16 weeks or even 20 weeks be ok assuming HCG is taken from day 1?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> Winstrol dosing.. First thing in the morning or 30 mins pre workout? Empty stomach or not?
> 
> I'm thinking the early morning might help with insomnia from it


 Anytime of the day that is most convenient. It makes no difference. Remember this, AAS do most of their job during RECOVERY, not during training. Also, their effects continue even when levels are lower or non-existent in the body due to something call gene expression.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Hi EC, what's the longest you would run test prop 300mg per week for without compromising health and fertility, for someone who cycles? Would 16 weeks or even 20 weeks be ok assuming HCG is taken from day 1?


 Fertility is a crapshoot. That can be affected by so many things, including genetics, and many men are infertile without ever touching any AAS.

As for health, the main way that AAS damage the body is through elevated blood pressure and liver toxicity from orals. Control your blood pressure, don't be fat, and do regular cardiovascular exercise and you will be completely Fine. High levels of AAS may cause heart structure changes and affect the cardiovascular system independent on the elevation in blood pressure, but generally speaking, high BP is a main causitive factor. The guys you see with heart and kidney failures had been abusing steroids for over a decade and were not controlling their blood pressure. High BP is a major killer and disease causer.

Look at Robbie Robinson and Mike O'Hearn, these guys have been on AAS for decades and they are relatively healthy and healthier/more active than their peers. Grant it, we cannot see what is happening on the inside, but you can tell these guys have longetivity.

What is your goal with a 16 weeks 300 mg test prop cycle? Are you going to PCT or just cruise on TRT? Need more information to give you a good answer.


----------



## Simon90

I'm sure it's been asked so apologies about that, but what would med would you reccomend to lower blood pressure?

Telmisartan is being raved about alot but I've heard it can be a pain in the arse balancing electrolytes whilst using it

Would nebivolol be the best option?

I'm aware of the other ways/supps to keep blood pressure down/In check which have worked so far but I'm looking at pushing the doses soon and would like to have something on hand just in case

Thanks again appreciate it :thumbup1:


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Fertility is a crapshoot. That can be affected by so many things, including genetics, and many men are infertile without ever touching any AAS.
> 
> As for health, the main way that AAS damage the body is through elevated blood pressure and liver toxicity from orals. Control your blood pressure, don't be fat, and do regular cardiovascular exercise and you will be completely Fine. High levels of AAS may cause heart structure changes and affect the cardiovascular system independent on the elevation in blood pressure, but generally speaking, high BP is a main causitive factor. The guys you see with heart and kidney failures had been abusing steroids for over a decade and were not controlling their blood pressure. High BP is a major killer and disease causer.
> 
> Look at Robbie Robinson and Mike O'Hearn, these guys have been on AAS for decades and they are relatively healthy and healthier/more active than their peers. Grant it, we cannot see what is happening on the inside, but you can tell these guys have longetivity.
> 
> What is your goal with a 16 weeks 300 mg test prop cycle? Are you going to PCT or just cruise on TRT? Need more information to give you a good answer.


 Agreed on fertility being influenced by many other factors. But assuming I am a healthy fertile male (age 30) wanting to preserve fertility, would a 20 week cycle of 300mg test prop + 2 x 500 IU HCG weekly cause too much of a risk?

I am a fairly lean individual ~10% bf, doing 3-4 LISS cardio sessions a week. Goal of the 20 week cycle test prop cycle is to accumulate lean muscle tissue from the prolonged exposure with a good diet, training and rest. I plan to come off completely with a 6 week PCT consisting of tamoxifen 20mg ed + clomiphene 50mg ed . One of the main reasons why I'm choosing to cycle over blast&cruise is that I've always been able to recover well and fairly quickly from previous cycles (used only moderate doses e.g. 200-300mg test + 8 weeks of var @ 50mg ed and capping cycles at 12-14 weeks). I want to still maintain HPTA function at least until age 40 where I would really consider going on TRT. BP has always been in the healthy range - reading today is 117/74, at week 12 of the cycle. At the crossroad now where I'm deciding between coming off or continue going for another 4-8 more weeks. My first 10 weeks were in small caloric deficit where I recomped from 15% to 10% bf, last 2 weeks were in maintenance cals. Planning to introduce a small caloric surplus if I extend the cycle.

Thank you for your time and advice as always  @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> I'm sure it's been asked so apologies about that, but what would med would you reccomend to lower blood pressure?
> 
> Telmisartan is being raved about alot but I've heard it can be a pain in the arse balancing electrolytes whilst using it
> 
> Would nebivolol be the best option?
> 
> I'm aware of the other ways/supps to keep blood pressure down/In check which have worked so far but I'm looking at pushing the doses soon and would like to have something on hand just in case
> 
> Thanks again appreciate it :thumbup1:


 The different classes of BP meds have their benefits. Beta blockers like metoprolol can also help with anxiety but they might impair exercise performance/fat loss. Angiotensin receptor blockers like Losartan may improve erectile function. I might lean more towards Losartan nowadays, i used to recommend beta blocker like metoprolol, but losartan and that class of meds has some interesting positive data on sexual satisfaction and erectile function.

The natural way to bring BP down: 1. Do regular cardiovascular exercise. Moderate/light cardio is ideal. Not walking or sprinting. 2. Get lean. Being overweight/carrying extra fat increases the risk of hypertension. 3. Do not drink excessively or smoke. 4. Supplements like pycnogenol/pine bark extract/grape seed might help a bit.

If you are on AAS, as long as you aren't over 160/100 mmhg long term, i would not be too worried. On AAS, i wouldn't want to be over 150/95 mmhg. Elevation in BP in the short term is not very dangerous unless you go over that 160/100 mmhg.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Agreed on fertility being influenced by many other factors. But assuming I am a healthy fertile male (age 30) wanting to preserve fertility, would a 20 week cycle of 300mg test prop + 2 x 500 IU HCG weekly cause too much of a risk?
> 
> I am a fairly lean individual ~10% bf, doing 3-4 LISS cardio sessions a week. Goal of the 20 week cycle test prop cycle is to accumulate lean muscle tissue from the prolonged exposure with a good diet, training and rest. I plan to come off completely with a 6 week PCT consisting of tamoxifen 20mg ed + clomiphene 50mg ed . One of the main reasons why I'm choosing to cycle over blast&cruise is that I've always been able to recover well and fairly quickly from previous cycles (used only moderate doses e.g. 200-300mg test + 8 weeks of var @ 50mg ed and capping cycles at 12-14 weeks). I want to still maintain HPTA function at least until age 40 where I would really consider going on TRT. BP has always been in the healthy range - reading today is 117/74, at week 12 of the cycle. At the crossroad now where I'm deciding between coming off or continue going for another 4-8 more weeks. My first 10 weeks were in small caloric deficit where I recomped from 15% to 10% bf, last 2 weeks were in maintenance cals. Planning to introduce a small caloric surplus if I extend the cycle.
> 
> Thank you for your time and advice as always  @ElChapo


 Do you know your testosterone levels off cycle from before? That can give you a good idea about your baseline fertility and testicular function.

In your case, i would be happy with the recomp and just PCT. The longer you stay shut off, the higher the risk of atrophy. If someone wants to PCT and cares about recovery and fertility, i wouldn't go past 8-12 weeks.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> The different classes of BP meds have their benefits. Beta blockers like metoprolol can also help with anxiety but they might impair exercise performance/fat loss. Angiotensin receptor blockers like Losartan may improve erectile function. I might lean more towards Losartan nowadays, i used to recommend beta blocker like metoprolol, but losartan and that class of meds has some interesting positive data on sexual satisfaction and erectile function.
> 
> The natural way to bring BP down: 1. Do regular cardiovascular exercise. Moderate/light cardio is ideal. Not walking or sprinting. 2. Get lean. Being overweight/carrying extra fat increases the risk of hypertension. 3. Do not drink excessively or smoke. 4. Supplements like pycnogenol/pine bark extract/grape seed might help a bit.
> 
> If you are on AAS, as long as you aren't over 160/100 mmhg long term, i would not be too worried. On AAS, i wouldn't want to be over 150/95 mmhg. Elevation in BP in the short term is not very dangerous unless you go over that 160/100 mmhg.


 Just checking the cardio line there. Did you mean to say "not walking" as I regularly do a brisk walk (heart rate 125-135bpm) but can swap to a cross trainer or something else of walking isn't the best. I always thought it was fine.

Cheers


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Do you know your testosterone levels off cycle from before? That can give you a good idea about your baseline fertility and testicular function.
> 
> In your case, i would be happy with the recomp and just PCT. The longer you stay shut off, the higher the risk of atrophy. If someone wants to PCT and cares about recovery and fertility, i wouldn't go past 8-12 weeks.


 Thanks @ElChapo, off cycle bloods from before,

Male, 31 y/o

Testosterone 25.54 nmol/L
Free Testosterone 0.417 nmol/L
Bioavailable Testosterone 11.077 nmol/L
SHBG 47.8 nmol/L
E2 167.4 pmol/L
LH 5.28 iu/L
FSH 5.2 iu/L
Progesterone 1.4 nmol/L
Prolactin 7.3 ug/L
IGF1 171ng/m

Do the numbers look OK for holding out the TRT for some time down the road?

Noted your point on capping at 12 week max.
For my case using test prop, shall I cease HCG with the last test prop jab and begin with the nolva 20mg + clomid 50mg concurrently? Would you use both nolvadex and clomid or just go with one?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

I've got 5 weeks before I go on holidays , I'm at 12% bf and would like to get to 8-9%

I'm slowly eating less calories , and train everyday + 30 minutes stair master at the end (350 calories burn)

I'm on 160mg test P / w , and that's it.

I was thinking of adding T3 at really low dosage like 6.25 or 12.5mcg , but I remember last time I had tremors.

I don't remember hair loss at that dosage but I had at 25+ mcg.

Would you recommend taking it ? or what would you recommend adding to help cut faster? a part from sport and eating.

Would taking 25mcg T3 too much for 160mg test P? or I could up it to 250mg


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Just checking the cardio line there. Did you mean to say "not walking" as I regularly do a brisk walk (heart rate 125-135bpm) but can swap to a cross trainer or something else of walking isn't the best. I always thought it was fine.
> 
> Cheers


 Walking is good, jogging or higher intensity is better. You do not get the same adaptations and effects from walking that you do from more intense exercise. You can keep walking, i'm saying you won't reap all the benefits of cardio just walking.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Thanks @ElChapo, off cycle bloods from before,
> 
> Male, 31 y/o
> 
> Testosterone 25.54 nmol/L
> Free Testosterone 0.417 nmol/L
> Bioavailable Testosterone 11.077 nmol/L
> SHBG 47.8 nmol/L
> E2 167.4 pmol/L
> LH 5.28 iu/L
> FSH 5.2 iu/L
> Progesterone 1.4 nmol/L
> Prolactin 7.3 ug/L
> IGF1 171ng/m
> 
> Do the numbers look OK for holding out the TRT for some time down the road?
> 
> Noted your point on capping at 12 week max.
> For my case using test prop, shall I cease HCG with the last test prop jab and begin with the nolva 20mg + clomid 50mg concurrently? Would you use both nolvadex and clomid or just go with one?


 Yeah, that's excellent testosterone. You didn't take any clomid/nolva/hcg within a month of this test?

Yeah, you can stop the HCG when you stop the testosterone. There is some evidence that nolva can enhance the recovery in ways that clomid doesn't. So it's good to use both. It will also help prevent rebound gyno off cycle.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I've got 5 weeks before I go on holidays , I'm at 12% bf and would like to get to 8-9%
> 
> I'm slowly eating less calories , and train everyday + 30 minutes stair master at the end (350 calories burn)
> 
> I'm on 160mg test P / w , and that's it.
> 
> I was thinking of adding T3 at really low dosage like 6.25 or 12.5mcg , but I remember last time I had tremors.
> 
> I don't remember hair loss at that dosage but I had at 25+ mcg.
> 
> Would you recommend taking it ? or what would you recommend adding to help cut faster? a part from sport and eating.
> 
> Would taking 25mcg T3 too much for 160mg test P? or I could up it to 250mg


 Don't do it. T3 sucks as a standalone fat burner and taking T3 solo lowers both your T4 and T3 because of negative feedback system.

Grab some yohimbine, in one study, elite soccer players took 20 mg yohimbine and went from 9% to 7% body fat in 6 weeks without changing diet or exercise. Placebo group actually increased their body fat% slightly. You are at the right body fat % for yohimbine to shine. (<12%).

Don't use T3, it will increase appetite, can make you flatter/weaker and doesn't significantly improve fat loss in real practice.

Use yohimbine. Nutricost Yohimbine is really cheap and brings a ton per bottle. Take in the morning when you wake up, every day and do some light cardio with intermittent fasting. You can keep test P where it is.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Walking is good, jogging or higher intensity is better. You do not get the same adaptations and effects from walking that you do from more intense exercise. You can keep walking, i'm saying you won't reap all the benefits of cardio just walking.


 Ah OK cool. I always thought the weights hard and heavy worked a certain aspect of the heart and lungs, and then steady state would be sufficient for overall health, blood pressure, keeping blood vessels healthy etc. Would you suggest some hiit instead of this?

Cheer as always. You've said a million times not to over think things, but I think we all juts want to utilise what we do as much as we can whilst still staying healthier and happy


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Don't do it. T3 sucks as a standalone fat burner and taking T3 solo lowers both your T4 and T3 because of negative feedback system.
> 
> Grab some yohimbine, in one study, elite soccer players took 20 mg yohimbine and went from 9% to 7% body fat in 6 weeks without changing diet or exercise. Placebo group actually increased their body fat% slightly. You are at the right body fat % for yohimbine to shine. (<12%).
> 
> Don't use T3, it will increase appetite, can make you flatter/weaker and doesn't significantly improve fat loss in real practice.
> 
> Use yohimbine. Nutricost Yohimbine is really cheap and brings a ton per bottle. Take in the morning when you wake up, every day and do some light cardio with intermittent fasting. You can keep test P where it is.


 Thank you, yea T3 used to make me flat and lose strength , didn't like it much.

About Yohimbine, I have some but never used it because I do have anxiety problems and Yohimbine is known to increase it.

I will try 5mg this week , empty stomach and see how I feel.

I used to love Ephedrine HCL , but it's bad for health and anxiety so I stopped years ago but it made me feel so good sometimes


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo sorry for the question, but i can't find the answer with the search button.... How would you use inj Superdrol during a cycle? I think i was reading something about MWF inj... maybe i am wrong.


----------



## aftermath

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, that's excellent testosterone. You didn't take any clomid/nolva/hcg within a month of this test?
> 
> Yeah, you can stop the HCG when you stop the testosterone. There is some evidence that nolva can enhance the recovery in ways that clomid doesn't. So it's good to use both. It will also help prevent rebound gyno off cycle.


 Yes bloods were truly baseline being a few months off cycle or any PCT meds.

Will run the nolva+clomid PCT as recommended and hopefully bounce back to these baseline levels again. Thanks so much again @ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Ah OK cool. I always thought the weights hard and heavy worked a certain aspect of the heart and lungs, and then steady state would be sufficient for overall health, blood pressure, keeping blood vessels healthy etc. Would you suggest some hiit instead of this?
> 
> Cheer as always. You've said a million times not to over think things, but I think we all juts want to utilise what we do as much as we can whilst still staying healthier and happy


 The steady state is what i'm talking about as ideal. Think light jogging.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Thank you, yea T3 used to make me flat and lose strength , didn't like it much.
> 
> About Yohimbine, I have some but never used it because I do have anxiety problems and Yohimbine is known to increase it.
> 
> I will try 5mg this week , empty stomach and see how I feel.
> 
> I used to love Ephedrine HCL , but it's bad for health and anxiety so I stopped years ago but it made me feel so good sometimes


 Ephedrine is fairly safe if you are a healthy person and don't use it for a long time or take too much. Same with yohimbine. Yohimbine dose is 0.2 mg/kg You can try 5 mg and see how it feels. It can make you feel weird but it does work. It will also improve erection strength and oftentimes libido.


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo sorry for the question, but i can't find the answer with the search button.... How would you use inj Superdrol during a cycle? I think i was reading something about MWF inj... maybe i am wrong.


 That's how i used it. That could work, as can daily, EOD, etc. I had good results with 20-40 mg MWF, you can adjust that as you need to for your goals.

It's literally an oral masteron but that molecular modification makes it blow masteron out of the water in every wy.


----------



## ElChapo

aftermath said:


> Yes bloods were truly baseline being a few months off cycle or any PCT meds.
> 
> Will run the nolva+clomid PCT as recommended and hopefully bounce back to these baseline levels again. Thanks so much again @ElChapo


 Anytime, crossing my fingers for your full recovery. If you could source HMG, that would likely be much more effective than HCG.


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo

Do I have to do fasted cardio when taking yohimbine hcl in the morning or can I go straight on to work in the mornings and still train in the evening as I'm currently doing? My daily job is in an engineering factory and it is pretty active, I fast for the first 3-4 hours.

Also, diet breaks/refeed days, beneficial? If so how often and for how many days? Thanks


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo hope all is well.

My question is regarding daily vitamins, I'm currently using 3000mg fish oil, 6000iu vitamin d, 1000iu vitamin a, 500mg vitamin c, 250mcg vitamin k2, 30mg zinc, 600mg tumeric, multivitamin, and a probitic.

I've been reading that taking all the supplements at the same time can be counter productive and should be split throughout the day, at the moment I'm taking them all together after my first meal of the day, except vitamin c and probiotic as I take them on empty stomach.

Whats your thoughts on this? I want to get the maximum benefit out of my supplementation

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Do I have to do fasted cardio when taking yohimbine hcl in the morning or can I go straight on to work in the mornings and still train in the evening as I'm currently doing? My daily job is in an engineering factory and it is pretty active, I fast for the first 3-4 hours.
> 
> Also, diet breaks/refeed days, beneficial? If so how often and for how many days? Thanks


 It will still enhance fat loss without the cardio. it's good that your job is active, that will help burn fat while you fast on yohimbine.

Diet break and refeed depends on the length of your diet and how lean you are. Once you get under 15%, one refeed per a week can be a good idea, and two once you get under 12%. If you've been dieting for 8-12 weeks, a one-two week diet break is a good idea. They are very beneficial not just for psychological but physiological benefits.


----------



## Jabroni

Currently using t3 at 50mcg a day (and test e at 300mg a week) while dieting. Would the introduction of metformin at 500mg a day be a good idea, or would it not go well with the t3? I wanted to add the metformin for insulin sensitivity and other health benefits, but wasn't sure if it is contra to t3 or not.


----------



## ElChapo

Jabroni said:


> Currently using t3 at 50mcg a day (and test e at 300mg a week) while dieting. Would the introduction of metformin at 500mg a day be a good idea, or would it not go well with the t3? I wanted to add the metformin for insulin sensitivity and other health benefits, but wasn't sure if it is contra to t3 or not.


 Not a fan of T3, can increase hunger/cravings, make you flatter/weaker and reduce endurance. I don't see any benefit to metformin on a cut. The verdict is out on metformin, it may impair muscle anabolism.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo could you recommend a PED protocol for an athlete trying to maintain a good level of endurance, speed and strength (e.g. 800m runner, rugby player, mma/boxing athletes etc.)

assume that total anabolic load would want to remain under 5/600mg as it may otherwise compromise muscle/cardiovascular endurance? Would you include only testosterone or would you include a second anabolic and maybe consider any other PEDs outside of steroids?

thanks


----------



## Sbless85

Hi El Chapo. Hope you're well brother. Just a quick one, by how much would a whole blood donation reduce hct/hb by?

Keep up the great work, and mnay thanks for any info


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo could you recommend a PED protocol for an athlete trying to maintain a good level of endurance, speed and strength (e.g. 800m runner, rugby player, mma/boxing athletes etc.)
> 
> assume that total anabolic load would want to remain under 5/600mg as it may otherwise compromise muscle/cardiovascular endurance? Would you include only testosterone or would you include a second anabolic and maybe consider any other PEDs outside of steroids?
> 
> thanks


 Usually low dose test P and winstrol. Too much test will decrease endurance. 100 mg per week w/ 10-25 mg winstrol will keep you dry, improve recovery , strength and endurance. High dose AAS makes your muscle generate more power but sacrifice efficiency. The highest i would go is 200 mg test P and even that will cut endurance for long distance. 200 mg is better for anaerobic things like rugby/mma.


----------



## ElChapo

Sbless85 said:


> Hi El Chapo. Hope you're well brother. Just a quick one, by how much would a whole blood donation reduce hct/hb by?
> 
> Keep up the great work, and mnay thanks for any info


 Usually 3 % HCT and 1-2 hgb in american units.


----------



## zariph

Hey man

How would you suggest handling HGH+insulin for a first time user?

Does it matter which AAS I stack with it?

Would you suggest only starting with either insulin or hgh or would it be better just to stack the two even tho I have no experience with either?

Will using HGH and slin has same negative effect on the system like test, where you probable will have to stay on forever caus the body stops producing it?

Slow acting vs fast acting insulin?

When to dose hgh and slin?


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo can you recommend any supplements/drugs that increase fat loss (or help to shift any weight loss towards utilising fat rather than muscle for fuel), that DON'T have any effect on heart rate?

I don't like the way stimulants make me feel with the increased HR, e.g. clen, yohimbine, caffeine, ephedrine etc.

I know of GW-501516 (cardarine) which is very effective but also had human clinical trails seized which suggests there are severe unknown side effects - possibly linked to cancer is a theory I read.

Only other supplement that came to mind was the injectable form of carnitine which I know is popular amongst bodybuilders during competition prep so could try this.

if you know of anything else that has some efficacy then please state, thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hey man
> 
> How would you suggest handling HGH+insulin for a first time user?
> 
> Does it matter which AAS I stack with it?
> 
> Would you suggest only starting with either insulin or hgh or would it be better just to stack the two even tho I have no experience with either?
> 
> Will using HGH and slin has same negative effect on the system like test, where you probable will have to stay on forever caus the body stops producing it?
> 
> Slow acting vs fast acting insulin?
> 
> When to dose hgh and slin?


 Most lifters don't need to touch insulin, it's for advanced bodybuilders. Most AAS users would be better off addressing nutrition/training/recovery deficits. Insulin can kill you if used incorrectly, i don't generally have recommendations for it, other than to use under a reputable and experienced coach and only if you are an advanced bodybuilder who has truly tapped into the human limits of muscularity on AAS alone.

GH at 4 IU can help get you more out of a lower dose of AAS on it's own without insulin. I wouldn't take more than 4 IU without insulin.

GH does not shut you down and neither does insulin. Once you stop, your body goes back to it's old baseline, unlike with testosterone and AAS.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo can you recommend any supplements/drugs that increase fat loss (or help to shift any weight loss towards utilising fat rather than muscle for fuel), that DON'T have any effect on heart rate?
> 
> I don't like the way stimulants make me feel with the increased HR, e.g. clen, yohimbine, caffeine, ephedrine etc.
> 
> I know of GW-501516 (cardarine) which is very effective but also had human clinical trails seized which suggests there are severe unknown side effects - possibly linked to cancer is a theory I read.
> 
> Only other supplement that came to mind was the injectable form of carnitine which I know is popular amongst bodybuilders during competition prep so could try this.
> 
> if you know of anything else that has some efficacy then please state, thanks.


 Besides DNP, not really. Most fat loss compounds work through adrenergic receptors which release fat from fat cells and enhance metabolic rate, but these same receptors also increase the heart rate and can increase anxiety/nervousness.

If someone could create a selective andrenergic receptor agonist, you could theoretically get a fat burner with all those benefits and none of the side effects.

Good old cardio and caloric deficit works every time and is side effect free. I actually prefer to not use any compounds as i don't like the side effects and the crashing effect when you stop.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Is it possible to do something against the insane lethargy linked to HGH use?

I remember taking 2iu / day , for 2 days , and couldnt do anything with this insane lethargic.

I also had eye pressure and nipple pain (gyno growth), in only 2 days so I immediately stopped.


----------



## Dute

Hi @El Chapo, hope you're well.

I've finally decided to try some deca. 350mg test, 250mg deca, 250mg mast.

I'm pretty worried about deca dick, would winny reverse it? I hear winny helps lower progesterone. Or would it be best just to drop the deca if I run into limp problems?


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Most lifters don't need to touch insulin, it's for advanced bodybuilders. Most AAS users would be better off addressing nutrition/training/recovery deficits. Insulin can kill you if used incorrectly, i don't generally have recommendations for it, other than to use under a reputable and experienced coach and only if you are an advanced bodybuilder who has truly tapped into the human limits of muscularity on AAS alone.
> 
> GH at 4 IU can help get you more out of a lower dose of AAS on it's own without insulin. I wouldn't take more than 4 IU without insulin.
> 
> GH does not shut you down and neither does insulin. Once you stop, your body goes back to it's old baseline, unlike with testosterone and AAS.


 But why not just use few Ui of insulin if it helps building mass? I mean then you could cut abit back on the AAS maybe?

As for Hgh, 2 Ui I "replacement dose" right? so you suggest 4UI - how would you dose this, just one shot in the evening?

4Ui of Hgh, will this not negatively impact bloodsuger if I dont add insulin - what benifits will one see if adding 3 or for ui of hgh to a cycle?

I know its a rough topic to discuss on paper, but I really wanna know why more ppl dont add slin/hgh if that whats really takes you to the next lvl, and just use less amount of AAS - so I really appreciate your help


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> But why not just use few Ui of insulin if it helps building mass? I mean then you could cut abit back on the AAS maybe?
> 
> As for Hgh, 2 Ui I "replacement dose" right? so you suggest 4UI - how would you dose this, just one shot in the evening?
> 
> 4Ui of Hgh, will this not negatively impact bloodsuger if I dont add insulin - what benifits will one see if adding 3 or for ui of hgh to a cycle?
> 
> I know its a rough topic to discuss on paper, but I really wanna know why more ppl dont add slin/hgh if that whats really takes you to the next lvl, and just use less amount of AAS - so I really appreciate your help


 Because most people have no business taking slin to get to the next level when they aren't even objectively at an intermediate/advanced level. Like i said, this stuff can be dangerous and is not necessary for most guys who lift. Most guys who lift with poor results or those who are stuck need to address training/nutrition/recovery issues. This applies to probably 90% of men who lift. Only a very small percentage will ever have to touch insulin to reach their goals.

4 IU GH can temporarily cause some hyperglycemia and in susceptible people may induce a reversible pre-diabetic state. One shot in the early evening. It tends to spike 3-4 hours for when you will be sleeping. Taking in the morning can cause significant lethargy in many people.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Is it possible to do something against the insane lethargy linked to HGH use?
> 
> I remember taking 2iu / day , for 2 days , and couldnt do anything with this insane lethargic.
> 
> I also had eye pressure and nipple pain (gyno growth), in only 2 days so I immediately stopped.


 If you are cutting, then EC stack will help a lot with energy issues. The lethargy will go away in my experience after a few weeks. Are you taking in the morning or evening?

It can cause gyno because IGF-1 signalling is an important component of gyno, it will flare up my nipple tissue as well but goes away when i stop.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi @El Chapo, hope you're well.
> 
> I've finally decided to try some deca. 350mg test, 250mg deca, 250mg mast.
> 
> I'm pretty worried about deca dick, would winny reverse it? I hear winny helps lower progesterone. Or would it be best just to drop the deca if I run into limp problems?


 It probably won't, best bet is cialis/viagra and cabergoline. There is some weak data that winstrol can attach to progesterone receptors, i don't see that doing anything for deca dick.

Carry some cialis/caber or drop the deca. Masteron has been shown to help a lot of people with tren/deca dick as well. Caber would be dosed at 0.5-1 mg per week. It is strong and can increase libido/erections.


----------



## Simon90

What's your opinion on supplementing t3 on a tren cycle when gaining? I've seen this spoken about before and don't understand why, tren is hard enough to out eat as it is surely t3is only going to increase this?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> What's your opinion on supplementing t3 on a tren cycle when gaining? I've seen this spoken about before and don't understand why, tren is hard enough to out eat as it is surely t3is only going to increase this?


 I wouldn't do it. A lot of this stuff is hearsay and broscience.


----------



## pma111

I've seen a generic formula mentioned for maintenance calories, of bodyweight in lb's x 15 = your maintenance calories. Do you think this is a reliable figure/formula? The only way I could get a TDEE calculator using default settings to return that figure was with the 'moderate excercise' condition added to the final result. Is it too vague a recommendation, or is it pretty accurate in most cases? So a 200 lb male would have a 3000 calorie per day maintenance calories requirement, for example, based on that formula.


----------



## Sasnak

pma111 said:


> So a 200 lb male would have a 3000 calorie per day maintenance calories requirement, for example, based on that formula


 I know that you aren't asking me but I tend to start bulking at around 215lb at 6'4" and can get to 240lb on around 3000 cals a day, 3250 tops. There's too many variables like how physical your job is (mine isn't)

You will only find out your requirements by tracking calories and adjusting when required.


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> I've seen a generic formula mentioned for maintenance calories, of bodyweight in lb's x 15 = your maintenance calories. Do you think this is a reliable figure/formula? The only way I could get a TDEE calculator using default settings to return that figure was with the 'moderate excercise' condition added to the final result. Is it too vague a recommendation, or is it pretty accurate in most cases? So a 200 lb male would have a 3000 calorie per day maintenance calories requirement, for example, based on that formula.


 14-16 per lbs depending on activity, its an alright formula, but katch-mcardle tdee calculator is best

https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> If you are cutting, then EC stack will help a lot with energy issues. The lethargy will go away in my experience after a few weeks. Are you taking in the morning or evening?
> 
> It can cause gyno because IGF-1 signalling is an important component of gyno, it will flare up my nipple tissue as well but goes away when i stop.


 I used to take it in the evening before bed.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo

I have been reading some pretty incredible things about serrapeptase being able to dissolve internal scar tissue. I would be a good candidate as I have a shitload of it from old chronic injuries. Who knows tho maybe it does nothing? We will see..

Anyway, people are saying that it's a blood thinner and to avoid taking it with other blood thinners. Should I stop taking fish oil, cucurmin and cinnamon oil while on it, thoughts?


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo

Thanks for the advice you have gave me, greatly appreciate it, saves me a lot of trial and error.

Do you think my current plan of a 1200+ cal deficit mon-fri with yohimbine fasted in the mornings, then back to maintenence at the weekends to refeed for 2 days (sub 10%) bf now is a good plan? What would you change?

It is easy to stick to knowing I get to refuel at the weekends while still getting results

Drugs are 140mg test e 50mg oral winny per day. Thanks buddy


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I used to take it in the evening before bed.


 Earlier evening, not before bed. I'm talking 6-7 PM, so it peaks around bed time. Taking before bed time means it peaks much later, which means more drowsiness in the morning and next day


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I have been reading some pretty incredible things about serrapeptase being able to dissolve internal scar tissue. I would be a good candidate as I have a shitload of it from old chronic injuries. Who knows tho maybe it does nothing? We will see..
> 
> Anyway, people are saying that it's a blood thinner and to avoid taking it with other blood thinners. Should I stop taking fish oil, cucurmin and cinnamon oil while on it, thoughts?


 https://examine.com/supplements/serrapeptase/

All those things are not going to thin your blood out that much. I wouldn't be concerned, i've seen patients taking aspirin and elliquis together and they were fine.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Thanks for the advice you have gave me, greatly appreciate it, saves me a lot of trial and error.
> 
> Do you think my current plan of a 1200+ cal deficit mon-fri with yohimbine fasted in the mornings, then back to maintenence at the weekends to refeed for 2 days (sub 10%) bf now is a good plan? What would you change?
> 
> It is easy to stick to knowing I get to refuel at the weekends while still getting results
> 
> Drugs are 140mg test e 50mg oral winny per day. Thanks buddy


 That will work, make sure to carb up on weekend and lift weights to maintain mass, focus on preserving strength/reps.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> https://examine.com/supplements/serrapeptase/
> 
> All those things are not going to thin your blood out that much. I wouldn't be concerned, i've seen patients taking aspirin and elliquis together and they were fine.


 Thanks! Will continue on then :thumb

Edit: should also mention I'm on 20 mg celexa (SSRI) and 4 iu HGH.

But yeah shouldn't make much difference I assume?


----------



## Pancake'

What causes that sickly feeling, as though you're about to vomit, when you're out of breathe from performing cardio?


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> Thanks! Will continue on then :thumb
> 
> Edit: should also mention I'm on 20 mg celexa (SSRI) and 4 iu HGH.
> 
> But yeah shouldn't make much difference I assume?


 Nope


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> What causes that sickly feeling, as though you're about to vomit, when you're out of breathe from performing cardio?


 It's believe to be lack of blood to the stomach, during exercise, blood is shuttled to muscles for performance and away from GI tract.


----------



## hondastu

@ElChapo What are your views on BCM-95 vs Meriva? Is BCM-95 worth the extra?


----------



## ElChapo

hondastu said:


> @ElChapo What are your views on BCM-95 vs Meriva? Is BCM-95 worth the extra?


 The best ones are Meriva and longvida. Jarrow and NOW foods respectively for value/quality. Meriva seems to be better for the body and longvida for the brain.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo

I take 120 ug (4800 iu) of vitamin d every day.

Is it too much, and does it make sense to lower it during the summer if outside a lot? I was thinking of doing 35 ug during the summer.

Thanks!

Edit: also, once again thanks for doing this AMA and still keeping it going, it's amazing you helping people with all this knowledge.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo

What's your thoughts on running nolva through a 12 week cycle instead of an Ai?

Currently reading up on nolva and igf levels, is there much effect on igf if running nolva for the 12 weeks? Can't get a definite answer online. Also does nolva effect cholesterol levels?

I know raloxifene is superior to nolva but hard to source at the moment so thinking of using nolva throughout as a gyno precaution. Of course will implement an ai if suffering from any other high e2 sides but always feel crap when using ai's hence not using one this time around

Thank you, hope all is well your end!


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I take 120 ug (4800 iu) of vitamin d every day.
> 
> Is it too much, and does it make sense to lower it during the summer if outside a lot? I was thinking of doing 35 ug during the summer.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Edit: also, once again thanks for doing this AMA and still keeping it going, it's amazing you helping people with all this knowledge.


 For most people, 4.000-5000 IU is ideal maintenance dose should be taken after a meal containing fat for proper absorption. You can test Vitamin D every 6-12 months to make sure you are in the optimal range of 40-60 ng/mL. You can google a vitamin D conversion calculator to convert that to your respective units.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> What's your thoughts on running nolva through a 12 week cycle instead of an Ai?
> 
> Currently reading up on nolva and igf levels, is there much effect on igf if running nolva for the 12 weeks? Can't get a definite answer online. Also does nolva effect cholesterol levels?
> 
> I know raloxifene is superior to nolva but hard to source at the moment so thinking of using nolva throughout as a gyno precaution. Of course will implement an ai if suffering from any other high e2 sides but always feel crap when using ai's hence not using one this time around
> 
> Thank you, hope all is well your end!


 On paper you would think there is a negative effect, however, many bodybuilders run nolva without issues or impediment of gains. Nolvadex can however have side effects on mood/libido, and some data suggests it can be neurotoxic, so keep that in mind. Nolvadex probably wont have a significant effect on cholesterol levels.

As you can see, AI use is overdone by most people, having E2 on the higher end is usually better overall for libido, mood and gains. Myself, i just take nolva/ralox as needed to reverse any gyno after it sets in.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> On paper you would think there is a negative effect, however, many bodybuilders run nolva without issues or impediment of gains. Nolvadex can however have side effects on mood/libido, and some data suggests it can be neurotoxic, so keep that in mind. Nolvadex probably wont have a significant effect on cholesterol levels.
> 
> As you can see, AI use is overdone by most people, having E2 on the higher end is usually better overall for libido, mood and gains. Myself, i just take nolva/ralox as needed to reverse any gyno after it sets in.


 Thats what I've been reading and also agree with the fact its been used by many in bodybuilding with no affect to gains too.

I think Il source ralox, it is more expensive but worth it.

Il skip the ai and run ralox throughout the cycle, would the ralox work in shrinking the gyno while on cycle or not as e2 would be higher than average? My e2 always I'm range on TRT.

Also, what's your recommendation on vitamin d3 daily dosage? Currently on 3000iu a day, work inside and never get much sunlight only at the weekends due to work? Is 3000iu sufficient?

Thank you


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo opinion on beta blockers for AAS users in preventing/dramatically reducing hypertrophy of left ventricle and remodelling of cardiac tissue? Antagonising the beta receptors in the heart seems like a sensible way to reduce some of the damage caused by AAS in terms of sympathetic nervous stimulation. Would you recommend a beta blocker to AAS users with mild tachycardia (75-80pm resting)? Not concerned about the reduced metabolic rate that comes with it, calories and expenditure can be adjusted to accommodate this.

thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Thats what I've been reading and also agree with the fact its been used by many in bodybuilding with no affect to gains too.
> 
> I think Il source ralox, it is more expensive but worth it.
> 
> Il skip the ai and run ralox throughout the cycle, would the ralox work in shrinking the gyno while on cycle or not as e2 would be higher than average? My e2 always I'm range on TRT.
> 
> Also, what's your recommendation on vitamin d3 daily dosage? Currently on 3000iu a day, work inside and never get much sunlight only at the weekends due to work? Is 3000iu sufficient?
> 
> Thank you


 It might work during the cycle, that is dependent on your genetics, what you are running, etc.

3,000 IU daily might work, generally i recommend 5,000 IU, i think you guys have 4,000 IU available in the UK. Make sure to take it with a meal that contains fat so it gets absorbed properly.

Aim for Vitamin D levels 100-150 nmol/L, that's where you would naturally be with a lot of sunlight.


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo opinion on beta blockers for AAS users in preventing/dramatically reducing hypertrophy of left ventricle and remodelling of cardiac tissue? Antagonising the beta receptors in the heart seems like a sensible way to reduce some of the damage caused by AAS in terms of sympathetic nervous stimulation. Would you recommend a beta blocker to AAS users with mild tachycardia (75-80pm resting)? Not concerned about the reduced metabolic rate that comes with it, calories and expenditure can be adjusted to accommodate this.
> 
> thanks.


 If the BP isn't elevated over 140/100 mmhg and the heart rate isn't above 80 bpm, i wouldn't. I would try cardio to reduce the heart rate. High rate generally means your heart isn't fit and efficient or too stiff to pump enough blood per stroke.

Beta blocker might possibly reduce fat loss in the long run and if your BP isn't high, it could lead to hypotension and orthostatic hypotension, so you might pass out during squats.

Your best bet is to keep your heart fit and strong with regular cardiovascular exercise (this will bring down your heart rate) and make sure resting BP isn't very high chronically.


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapo

You said several times that test propionate causes less water retention and aromatizes less than the longer esters. Is there a scientific explanation for that?


----------



## Simon90

Hello mate Out of date digestive enzymes by 2.5year. Would they still be good to use do you reckon? I can't seem to find any info on this, they contain betaine hcl and pepsin and gentian root

The seal has been broken but it's aa full tub shame to throw em


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Because most people have no business taking slin to get to the next level when they aren't even objectively at an intermediate/advanced level. Like i said, this stuff can be dangerous and is not necessary for most guys who lift. Most guys who lift with poor results or those who are stuck need to address training/nutrition/recovery issues. This applies to probably 90% of men who lift. Only a very small percentage will ever have to touch insulin to reach their goals.
> 
> 4 IU GH can temporarily cause some hyperglycemia and in susceptible people may induce a reversible pre-diabetic state. One shot in the early evening. It tends to spike 3-4 hours for when you will be sleeping. Taking in the morning can cause significant lethargy in many people.


 Thx mate.

Will 2-4ui of slin postworkout caus any sideeffects besides the acute effects?

I hear some people also dose HGH in the morning or after workout, what are the benifits of this?

Do you have any experience with berberine - is it powerful enough to help with insulinsensitivity if stacking with 4 ui of hgh?


----------



## Pancake'

What do you think of using a thumbless grip "false grip" for pushing & pulling exercises. is there any negatives to tendon+ligament health when performing say rows or pull ups utilising a thumbless grip?


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> You said several times that test propionate causes less water retention and aromatizes less than the longer esters. Is there a scientific explanation for that?


 Nobody knows why, it might be something to do with the pharmacokinetics of propionate vs enanthate causing a difference in non-genomic gene expression affecting kidney sodium resorption. That's the only thing i can think of that is happening.


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hello mate Out of date digestive enzymes by 2.5year. Would they still be good to use do you reckon? I can't seem to find any info on this, they contain betaine hcl and pepsin and gentian root
> 
> The seal has been broken but it's aa full tub shame to throw em


 Most likely, yes.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx mate.
> 
> Will 2-4ui of slin postworkout caus any sideeffects besides the acute effects?
> 
> I hear some people also dose HGH in the morning or after workout, what are the benifits of this?
> 
> Do you have any experience with berberine - is it powerful enough to help with insulinsensitivity if stacking with 4 ui of hgh?


 Post workout in what context? What side effects? It's very important to have a meal with enough carbs/sugar, because your body is more sensitive to insulin after training, so risk of hypoglycemia is greater, but the benefit is also increased. Berberine is thought to be as potent as metformin. It should have some synergy with HGH, especially at that dosage.

Some people swear that fasted HGH cardio increases fat loss for them, but i believe besides that, there probably isnt a benefit to timing it for most people.


----------



## pma111

What would you class as a healthy resting heart rate average? And what does a higher resting heart rate indicate in terms of cvd.


----------



## Gymrat12

ElChapo said:


> Nobody knows why


 but is it at least proven to be true? or you are saying that just based on your personal experience? because all people say all test esters act the same, although they agree that different esters of other drugs -like nandrolone phenylpropionate and nandrolone decanoate- act differently.

*note: I am just asking to learn I still don't have personal experience


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> Post workout in what context? What side effects? It's very important to have a meal with enough carbs/sugar, because your body is more sensitive to insulin after training, so risk of hypoglycemia is greater, but the benefit is also increased. Berberine is thought to be as potent as metformin. It should have some synergy with HGH, especially at that dosage.
> 
> Some people swear that fasted HGH cardio increases fat loss for them, but i believe besides that, there probably isnt a benefit to timing it for most people.


 thx - I mean will insulin at a dose at 2-4ui cause any other side effects? Like long term side effects, or is it fairly safe, as long as you keep bloodsuger under control?

Should you consume carbs imediately after shooting fast acting insulin or should you wait 30 min or so?

Should berberine be taken before the meal?

Appreciate all the help as always!


----------



## ElChapo

pma111 said:


> What would you class as a healthy resting heart rate average? And what does a higher resting heart rate indicate in terms of cvd.


 70 and under, doing cardio regularly will bring down high resting heart rate as your heart becomes more efficient at filling up and pumping blood to the body. +80 is usually seen in unfit individuals or those with sick hearts.

Very low heart rate can sometimes be pathological, in severe hypothyroidism and heart issues.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> but is it at least proven to be true? or you are saying that just based on your personal experience? because all people say all test esters act the same, although they agree that different esters of other drugs -like nandrolone phenylpropionate and nandrolone decanoate- act differently.
> 
> *note: I am just asking to learn I still don't have personal experience


 It's true. Do you expect scientists to literally make a paper/study titled "The water retention effects of testosterone prop vs cyp"? This is not a priority in the medical field. Bodybuilders discover things through experimentation.

It's not just something i have experienced myself, i also see it in patients. Many many women take testosterone propionate and cypionate and i have seen the difference in water retention, even at the low doses that women use (10% of male TRT dosage).


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> thx - I mean will insulin at a dose at 2-4ui cause any other side effects? Like long term side effects, or is it fairly safe, as long as you keep bloodsuger under control?
> 
> Should you consume carbs imediately after shooting fast acting insulin or should you wait 30 min or so?
> 
> Should berberine be taken before the meal?
> 
> Appreciate all the help as always!


 It should not, the biggest danger is hypoglycemia which can put you in a come or kill you. Most lifters have no business touching insulin unless they are advanced bodybuilders. If you wait 30 minutes, you will probably be hypoglycemic. Like i said, i don't recommend it for 99% of people, and those advanced enough to need it, will have the people to guide them in it's use.

Usually metformin is taken with a meal to avoid sides upset GI/stomach, so berberine would likely be the same.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> It might work during the cycle, that is dependent on your genetics, what you are running, etc.
> 
> 3,000 IU daily might work, generally i recommend 5,000 IU, i think you guys have 4,000 IU available in the UK. Make sure to take it with a meal that contains fat so it gets absorbed properly.
> 
> Aim for Vitamin D levels 100-150 nmol/L, that's where you would naturally be with a lot of sunlight.


 I'm currently using 6000iu vit d3, so that should be sufficient?

Question regarding calcium, is it worth supplementing with if your dairy free? I currently use almond milk once a day in my oats and morning coffee so don't have dairy at all, my diet is full of whole grains for carbs. chicken, turkey, salmon for protein. spinach, carrots and broccoli for vegetables and I eat alot of blueberries, the 3 melon types, raspberries, blackberries etc for fruit sources. Is it worth calcium supplementation with the above diet as I've seemed to cover everything else apart from calcium,

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> I'm currently using 6000iu vit d3, so that should be sufficient?
> 
> Question regarding calcium, is it worth supplementing with if your dairy free? I currently use almond milk once a day in my oats and morning coffee so don't have dairy at all, my diet is full of whole grains for carbs. chicken, turkey, salmon for protein. spinach, carrots and broccoli for vegetables and I eat alot of blueberries, the 3 melon types, raspberries, blackberries etc for fruit sources. Is it worth calcium supplementation with the above diet as I've seemed to cover everything else apart from calcium,
> 
> Thanks!


 Yes, monitor your levels once yearly.

How long have you been on 6,000 IU? I would test after 3 months on it and re-assess if dose is right or needs to be increased/lowered, most people do well on 5,000 IU year round who dont get a lot of sunlight.

If you are an athlete and want optimal performance, calcium supplementation can help you. It is just as important as magnesium, sodium, potassium.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> It should not, the biggest danger is hypoglycemia which can put you in a come or kill you. Most lifters have no business touching insulin unless they are advanced bodybuilders. If you wait 30 minutes, you will probably be hypoglycemic. Like i said, i don't recommend it for 99% of people, and those advanced enough to need it, will have the people to guide them in it's use.
> 
> Usually metformin is taken with a meal to avoid sides upset GI/stomach, so berberine would likely be the same.


 If I wanna use metformin while running HGH, when would you suggest taking metformin, if I wanna start doing just 500mg once a day, maybe twice?

How do you store your HGH in the fridge. Do you just leave the vial as it is or you suggest placing it in a box or plasticbag?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> If I wanna use metformin while running HGH, when would you suggest taking metformin, if I wanna start doing just 500mg once a day, maybe twice?
> 
> How do you store your HGH in the fridge. Do you just leave the vial as it is or you suggest placing it in a box or plasticbag?


 I have no suggestions because i have never used it in that capacity. Metformin may have a detrimental effect on muscle, there is a lot of good/bad things out there about it.

I prefill my HGH syringes and store them in this bag in the fridge:

https://www.amazon.com/200pcs-Smell-Resealable-Double-Sided-Ziplock/dp/B089QQY3DB


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I have no suggestions because i have never used it in that capacity. Metformin may have a detrimental effect on muscle, there is a lot of good/bad things out there about it.
> 
> I prefill my HGH syringes and store them in this bag in the fridge:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/200pcs-Smell-Resealable-Double-Sided-Ziplock/dp/B089QQY3DB


 How long will the prefilled syringes be good for?

I guess its best just to stay away from metformin, untill more research is available., what about alogliptin? I dont see any1 using this although it seems to be quite effective for insulin?

Btw is it normal for wait to shoot up few pounds after starting hgh? What could this be? Didnt know HGh could cause water retention?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> How long will the prefilled syringes be good for?
> 
> I guess its best just to stay away from metformin, untill more research is available., what about alogliptin? I dont see any1 using this although it seems to be quite effective for insulin?
> 
> Btw is it normal for wait to shoot up few pounds after starting hgh? What could this be? Didnt know HGh could cause water retention?


 My advice is to save your energy in looking for the next best thing and focus on the fundamentals.

Yes, HGH causes increased water retention, nitrogen in the muscles, etc. It's completely normal. HGH does cause water retention, it's not the fabled God's blood that the internet makes you believe.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo opinion on 'maingain' theory, where you eat around maintenance calories (maybe 100/200kcal above) and slowly add tissue year round without any fat gain. Weight fluctuates maybe 2kg up and down throughout the weeks with a couple of kilograms net gain per year? By keeping the diet clean, protein intake every 2/3hrs to stimulate MPS, optimise hypertrophy/strength training through progressive overload, regular cardio, and using low-moderate doses of anabolics throughout the year - Do you think similar results can be achieved to the bulk and cut method of: gain 0.5kg a week for 6 months then lose 1kg a week for 8-10 weeks type of programme?

to me this seems like a healthier approach to bodybuilding as insulin sensitivity and metabolic rate are always optimal, cardiovascular health is typically greater (due to lower bodyfat year round and less water retention both subcutaneous and intracellular, which can have negative implications for blood pressure/heart rate) and you don't need to slam the GI tract with copious amounts of food for several months a year to add 'size' - which can be detrimental to several aspects of health.

Or Is the anabolic response to a sufficient caloric surplus for several months so great that this method would be essentially useless/difficult to add a few kg solid muscle per year?

interested to hear you opinion or experience on this.

thank you.


----------



## Sam R

@ElChapo I'd also like to know your opinion on what you would add to this stack that I plan to utilise over the winter period.

20 week cycle using 150mg testosterone propionate every other day (about 500mg weekly)

with either 150mg primobolan enanthate every other day (500mg weekly)

or

HGH @ 3-4iu daily ?

I know that both of these will increase anabolism through different mechanisms so adding both would be better than just one but I don't really want to spend hundreds on this. Just wanted your opinion on what you think would be more effective for enhancing hypertrophy over the 20 week cycle.

thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo opinion on 'maingain' theory, where you eat around maintenance calories (maybe 100/200kcal above) and slowly add tissue year round without any fat gain. Weight fluctuates maybe 2kg up and down throughout the weeks with a couple of kilograms net gain per year? By keeping the diet clean, protein intake every 2/3hrs to stimulate MPS, optimise hypertrophy/strength training through progressive overload, regular cardio, and using low-moderate doses of anabolics throughout the year - Do you think similar results can be achieved to the bulk and cut method of: gain 0.5kg a week for 6 months then lose 1kg a week for 8-10 weeks type of programme?
> 
> to me this seems like a healthier approach to bodybuilding as insulin sensitivity and metabolic rate are always optimal, cardiovascular health is typically greater (due to lower bodyfat year round and less water retention both subcutaneous and intracellular, which can have negative implications for blood pressure/heart rate) and you don't need to slam the GI tract with copious amounts of food for several months a year to add 'size' - which can be detrimental to several aspects of health.
> 
> Or Is the anabolic response to a sufficient caloric surplus for several months so great that this method would be essentially useless/difficult to add a few kg solid muscle per year?
> 
> interested to hear you opinion or experience on this.
> 
> thank you.


 It can work but gains can be very slow, there is a reason cut/bulk cycles are the mainstay in bodybuilding, but if you want to stay lean year round and aren't in a hurry, then the method you talk about can work fine.


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapo

You advised against using statin to lower cholesterol if my cholesterol is naturally slightly above 200 so if I want to take winstrol which is known to be harsh on the lipids what should I do?

And another question: is the injectable winstrol less hypertoxic than the oral or it doesn't matter?


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapo

and one more question: As I know that estradiol plays a role in utilizing fat and when it is too low the body struggles to utilize the stored fat does the same thing happen if I am using nolva or raloxifene for gyno? would they affect the result of my diet?


----------



## ElChapo

Sam R said:


> @ElChapo I'd also like to know your opinion on what you would add to this stack that I plan to utilise over the winter period.
> 
> 20 week cycle using 150mg testosterone propionate every other day (about 500mg weekly)
> 
> with either 150mg primobolan enanthate every other day (500mg weekly)
> 
> or
> 
> HGH @ 3-4iu daily ?
> 
> I know that both of these will increase anabolism through different mechanisms so adding both would be better than just one but I don't really want to spend hundreds on this. Just wanted your opinion on what you think would be more effective for enhancing hypertrophy over the 20 week cycle.
> 
> thanks


 Probably the HGH, i found it really enhanced strength and muscle size/pump even on a lower dose of T prop.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> You advised against using statin to lower cholesterol if my cholesterol is naturally slightly above 200 so if I want to take winstrol which is known to be harsh on the lipids what should I do?
> 
> And another question: is the injectable winstrol less hypertoxic than the oral or it doesn't matter?


 Nothing, the time you take winstrol for will not cause any damage to your body via increase/decrease cholesterol. Lipid issues take years to cause problems. It's the liver you should be keeping an eye on during winstrol useage. Don't drink alcohol, avoid liver toxic meds like tylenol and take NAC+TUDCA+Taurine.

Injectable will still be liver toxic, i advise against it, it can pip very badly.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> and one more question: As I know that estradiol plays a role in utilizing fat and when it is too low the body struggles to utilize the stored fat does the same thing happen if I am using nolva or raloxifene for gyno? would they affect the result of my diet?


 If you are in a deficit, having very high or low estradiol will not significantly affect your fat loss. What you read in test tube studies and rat studies do not apply to real life practice. Many bodybuilders get contest shredded with estradiol level of 0 taking letrozole and many guys get very lean even with high E2 since they don't take AI during TRT or cycle. The answer is no.


----------



## Bluzzer

Hello ElChapo.

I guess it has been up before, but i have searched and haven't found it.

What do you think about running 2x 19-Nors together. Im thinkinh Tren A and NPP in moderate doses.

Is it worth running HGH with MWF protocol?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo

Having a level of 40 Ferritin , could it cause brain fog and lightheadedness ?

My bloods are totally normal , I'm on 200mg test P a week , RBC/hematocrit are in normal range , everything s good, except ferritin at 40 , I'm starting taking 50mg iron pills again.

I have some symptoms like anxiety, lightheadedness and brain fogs.

My BP is 12/6., heart rate is higher than normal ( 80-90 when I normaly have 70 , it's been like this since a month or a little more).

Btw i had problems with high RBC/hematocrit since 3-4 years , and I finally got rid of it , by switching from test E once a week , to test P e3D.


----------



## zariph

Hey

Which kind of carbs you suggest taking with rapid insulin immediately after injection/intraworkout?
Will HBCD be fine or does the slow release make it a bad option, so dextrose or maltodextrin would be better choice? Or do you suggest any other fast acting carb source for pre/intra wokrout?

I know you dont think insulin is necessary, but do you have an opnion of how to use it(or know whats the preffered way to use). Fast or slow acting or mixed? Timing/Frequency/starting dose etc?


----------



## Gymrat12

@ElChapo

Are there any risks of taking raloxifene forever?

Can it lead to desensitizion if you natural?

Can it cause any damage if it is used for a long time with steroids?


----------



## Seppuku71

Hi @ElChapo , could you cast your eye over this please, see what you think. I'm sure i read that thyroid's your speciality?

View attachment 201687


View attachment 201689


----------



## Seppuku71

Seppuku71 said:


> Hi @ElChapo , could you cast your eye over this please, see what you think. I'm sure i read that thyroid's your speciality?
> 
> View attachment 201687
> 
> 
> View attachment 201689



WTF?!!! Hello @vs-Admin - why have my two screenshots of a medichecks thyroid test been replaced with photos of two guys with their tops off?!


----------



## Pancake'

Lmao


----------



## Seppuku71

Pancake' said:


> Lmao


It's ****ed up!!


----------



## Pancake'

@ElChapo If you had to create a stack for an extreme boost in overall energy+wellbeing, what would it be and why? not tailoring this specifically to and for training purposes rather in case of productivity. T.I.A


----------



## ElChapo

Bluzzer said:


> Hello ElChapo.
> 
> I guess it has been up before, but i have searched and haven't found it.
> 
> What do you think about running 2x 19-Nors together. Im thinkinh Tren A and NPP in moderate doses.
> 
> Is it worth running HGH with MWF protocol?


It can work and some guys like to do it. Risk of sides may be higher. It's worth experimenting if you want to try it. 


Keep ralox/nolva on hand for gyno and cialis/viagra for any erections problems. Cabergoline can help with libido/mood, 0.5 mg per week up to 1 mg per week max.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Having a level of 40 Ferritin , could it cause brain fog and lightheadedness ?
> 
> My bloods are totally normal , I'm on 200mg test P a week , RBC/hematocrit are in normal range , everything s good, except ferritin at 40 , I'm starting taking 50mg iron pills again.
> 
> I have some symptoms like anxiety, lightheadedness and brain fogs.
> 
> My BP is 12/6., heart rate is higher than normal ( 80-90 when I normaly have 70 , it's been like this since a month or a little more).
> 
> Btw i had problems with high RBC/hematocrit since 3-4 years , and I finally got rid of it , by switching from test E once a week , to test P e3D.


Yes, low ferritin can affect your dopamine, not just muscle oxygenation. It can impair mood/motivation/etc. 40 is a mild anemia, but some people are more sensitive than others. I would want to be at 70 minimum. 

Glad you got the high RBC sorted out. It takes a while to boost ferritin, usually 8-12 weeks to see significant change and a lot of iron pills. Take with vitamin C and avoid dairy/calcium around the time you take it for improved absorption, re-test in 8-12 weeks. One iron pill is not enough, you may need 3-4 at once for the full duration. Usually one serving or dose of iron is only for maintenance


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Are there any risks of taking raloxifene forever?
> 
> Can it lead to desensitizion if you natural?
> 
> Can it cause any damage if it is used for a long time with steroids?



Maybe, we don't know the risks long-term. SERMs have been linked to possible negative effect on brain/nerve function with chronic use. It can act as an estrogen and anti-estrogen depending on the tissues (IE breast tissue anti estrogen and bone tissue estrogen). We don't know how that will affect your long term health, positively or negatively. 

It's good for bone tissue and it may protect against prostate cancer, we don't know the possible negatives. If you want to run it long term cause of stubborn gyno, i would consider the surgery instead.


----------



## ElChapo

Seppuku71 said:


> WTF?!!! Hello @vs-Admin - why have my two screenshots of a medichecks thyroid test been replaced with photos of two guys with their tops off?!


I can help, just post the labs or lab values.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> @ElChapo If you had to create a stack for an extreme boost in overall energy+wellbeing, what would it be and why? not tailoring this specifically to and for training purposes rather in case of productivity. T.I.A


The # 1 thing is consistent cardio and not too much. Too much raises cortisol, the right amount increases your bodies' tolerance to stress hormones and stress, improves circulation, energy, well-being, performance, etc. Doing cardio, having optimal testosterone levels, having the right "mind set/outlook on life", and avoid excess stress is your best bet.

None of the supplements will really do what you are looking for except something pharmaceutical like wellbutrin or modafanil.


----------



## SlinMeister

@ElChapo would you stack 700 TestP 50mg Winstrol ed and 20mg inj Superdrol ed with Nac Tudca and Taurine? Let's say for 8w or orals like those are too harsh together for that time?


----------



## Seppuku71

ElChapo said:


> I can help, just post the labs or lab values.




Thanks ElChapo, i'll try again:


----------



## ElChapo

SlinMeister said:


> @ElChapo would you stack 700 TestP 50mg Winstrol ed and 20mg inj Superdrol ed with Nac Tudca and Taurine? Let's say for 8w or orals like those are too harsh together for that time?


If you have experience with high dose orals (like 100 mg winstrol daily) and you won't touch alcohol/liver stressing meds, then you can probably pull it off. 

NAC/TUDCA/Taurine is a very potent liver stack. You can do 1000/500/3000 mg of each


----------



## ElChapo

Seppuku71 said:


> Thanks ElChapo, i'll try again:
> 
> View attachment 210259
> View attachment 210260


Sluggish thyroid, elevated TSH and suboptimal Free thyroxine. 18-22 is where "normal" people have that number.


----------



## Seppuku71

ElChapo said:


> Sluggish thyroid, elevated TSH and suboptimal Free thyroxine. 18-22 is where "normal" people have that number.


The Medichecks doc called it 'subclinical hypothyroidism'. I don't think the NHS treat that unless the tsh goes over 10. 
Do you think I would benefit from treatment @ElChapo? My tsh used to be around 2, it seemed to go up after a short period of me using low dose Lugol's iodine liquid (transdermal on the scrotum, long story). I don't do that any more, but i do use iodised salt on my meals. Just wondered if there would be any benefit to maybe trying some thyroxine? My wife's prescribed that, i'm sure she could spare a few pills.


----------



## SlinMeister

ElChapo said:


> If you have experience with high dose orals (like 100 mg winstrol daily) and you won't touch alcohol/liver stressing meds, then you can probably pull it off.
> 
> NAC/TUDCA/Taurine is a very potent liver stack. You can do 1000/500/3000 mg of each


Was in between 100mg Winny ed or 50 Winny + 20 SD ed.

NAC/TUDCA/Taurine 1000/500/3000 is my go-to Everytime i use orals.

Winstrol is really a great drug, cheap, strong gives great gains, stacks well with Test and Nandrolone. Not a single side effect for me.
Also the texture that gives to skin if fantastic.


----------



## ElChapo

Seppuku71 said:


> The Medichecks doc called it 'subclinical hypothyroidism'. I don't think the NHS treat that unless the tsh goes over 10.
> Do you think I would benefit from treatment @ElChapo? My tsh used to be around 2, it seemed to go up after a short period of me using low dose Lugol's iodine liquid (transdermal on the scrotum, long story). I don't do that any more, but i do use iodised salt on my meals. Just wondered if there would be any benefit to maybe trying some thyroxine? My wife's prescribed that, i'm sure she could spare a few pills.


If you have symptoms, yes. TSH does not always show you the thyroid status. Imagine ignoring Testosterone levels and estradiol and trying to guess by only using LH/FSH, that is what NHS is doing by only looking at TSH.


Studies prove that patients with "subclinical" can benefit from thyroxine, especially with symptoms. There are things that you don't feel like increased risk of heart disease, kidney disease, etc. 


Starting dose would be 50-100 mcg, in the morning 30-60 min before anything but water by mouth. re-test in 4 weeks, increase dose until Free Thyroxine is 18-22


----------



## Seppuku71

ElChapo said:


> If you have symptoms, yes. TSH does not always show you the thyroid status. Imagine ignoring Testosterone levels and estradiol and trying to guess by only using LH/FSH, that is what NHS is doing by only looking at TSH.
> 
> 
> Studies prove that patients with "subclinical" can benefit from thyroxine, especially with symptoms. There are things that you don't feel like increased risk of heart disease, kidney disease, etc.
> 
> 
> Starting dose would be 50-100 mcg, in the morning 30-60 min before anything but water by mouth. re-test in 4 weeks, increase dose until Free Thyroxine is 18-22


Great stuff, thanks @ElChapo. Quick question - is taking thyroxine supressive in a way that the body doesn't produce again after stopping it? I'd be interested to know if boosting my free t4 levels would ease some joint pain i have, but i don't want to cause a new problem by experimenting.


----------



## ElChapo

Seppuku71 said:


> Great stuff, thanks @ElChapo. Quick question - is taking thyroxine supressive in a way that the body doesn't produce again after stopping it? I'd be interested to know if boosting my free t4 levels would ease some joint pain i have, but i don't want to cause a new problem by experimenting.



Good question. No, thyroid hormone production recovers back to baseline after you stop. Same with HGH. Testosterone axis is the most sensitive of them all when it comes to that.


Joint and muscle aches are one symptoms of sluggish thyroid. In my opinion, it's worth a shot, you might feel better than you think, many get used to feeling shitty and forget what it feels like to feel normal.


----------



## Seppuku71

ElChapo said:


> Good question. No, thyroid hormone production recovers back to baseline after you stop. Same with HGH. Testosterone axis is the most sensitive of them all when it comes to that.
> 
> 
> Joint and muscle aches are one symptoms of sluggish thyroid. In my opinion, it's worth a shot, you might feel better than you think, many get used to feeling shitty and forget what it feels like to feel normal.


Thanks @ElChapo, i'll probably try that first then, as the only other telling thing in my blood work is low testosterone. I've consistantly over 3.5 years now measured between 6 nmol/l (worst one) up to a one off reading of 12 nmol/l but averaging around 10 nmol/l. Most of the time i'm on a self prescribed low dose clomid therapy (12.5mg, m, w, f), and it's when i stop that i get the lower results. I've read before that correcting a thyroid problem can improve testosterone levels, so i think it's worth a shot.


----------



## zariph

Hi mate!

Few questions regarding mk677 liquid.

Should mk677 liquid be stored in room temp or fridge? Will putting it in the fridge keep sheld life longer?
Do I need to shake the bottle everytime before I use?
The drawer doesnt have any ml signs on it, will one full dros be 1 ml you think if it says 1ml/25mg or should I measure it somehow?

If im on hgh, would it be benificial to stack mk677 with hgh or will the hgh cause the mk677 to be not as effective? If so, should I rotate like 5 dayg hgh 2 days mk677, or just do hgh and then switch to mk677 later?


----------



## Thejackal70

Hi pal 

long time user under a different name but lately having issues with tendons. Currently running bpc157 250mcg x 2 per day.

I’m trt but contemplating adding a low dose of deca (200mg) and dbol in (30mg) per week. To help with joints/tendons. What’s your thoughts.

Anything else I need to take into account ??


----------



## TomTom1

Hi @ElChapo.

I just got my bloods back and wanted to get your thoughts. I’m running 200mg test E and 200 mg of mast E weekly.

I inject every 7 days and had a venous sample taken on day 6, right before my jab. I’m happy with my trough T level but my sexual performance isn’t 100%, so I think my E and prolactin levels need some help.

Just to note - I refrained from any sexual activity for 72 hours prior to the blood test so as not to skew the prolactin result. 

Ive been running 300mg of b6 for a number of months so this doesn’t seem to be enough. What are your thoughts on super low dose caber and Adex until I start to feel 100%?

Cheers


----------



## Simon90

Hya mate, can heavy training cause an increase of troponin? I had some bloods done and they came back high, the test was soon after gym. They kept me in to test again and the levels had dropped so they said in fine but they said they don't know what caused the spike in first test. They said caffeine probably, which I can't see as it was only 200mg I use.
Also I'm guessing alt risen to 142 would be also related to training before the test aswell. Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Seppuku71 said:


> Thanks @ElChapo, i'll probably try that first then, as the only other telling thing in my blood work is low testosterone. I've consistantly over 3.5 years now measured between 6 nmol/l (worst one) up to a one off reading of 12 nmol/l but averaging around 10 nmol/l. Most of the time i'm on a self prescribed low dose clomid therapy (12.5mg, m, w, f), and it's when i stop that i get the lower results. I've read before that correcting a thyroid problem can improve testosterone levels, so i think it's worth a shot.



Clomid monotherapy usually gives poor results because clomid doesnt just increase testosterone, its an estrogen agonist and antagonist, this will affect mood and health negatively and the long term safety is unknown.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hi mate!
> 
> Few questions regarding mk677 liquid.
> 
> Should mk677 liquid be stored in room temp or fridge? Will putting it in the fridge keep sheld life longer?
> Do I need to shake the bottle everytime before I use?
> The drawer doesnt have any ml signs on it, will one full dros be 1 ml you think if it says 1ml/25mg or should I measure it somehow?
> 
> If im on hgh, would it be benificial to stack mk677 with hgh or will the hgh cause the mk677 to be not as effective? If so, should I rotate like 5 dayg hgh 2 days mk677, or just do hgh and then switch to mk677 later?


I don't see the point. Pretty sure it doesn't have to be refrigerated. It's usually a capsule. You should shake it vigorously. I'm not a fan of liquid research chems, they are more prone to going bad and are more prone to be lesser quality in my experience. I don't know if your body would produce it's own HGH while taking both together. Only way to find out is to try and draw bloods on both methods. 


MK677 may increase appetite and help with bulking. Might also help kick start your natural HGH production after taking HGH but permanent shut down doesnt usually happen when taking HGH like it does with testosterone.


----------



## ElChapo

Thejackal70 said:


> Hi pal
> 
> long time user under a different name but lately having issues with tendons. Currently running bpc157 250mcg x 2 per day.
> 
> I’m trt but contemplating adding a low dose of deca (200mg) and dbol in (30mg) per week. To help with joints/tendons. What’s your thoughts.
> 
> Anything else I need to take into account ??


What joints are bothering you? Usually the first step is to address the cause of the issue and any aggravating factors (muscle imbalance, movements causing stress, etc) before using supplements/meds. Do you know what caused the injury/chronic issue in the first place? 


Some men have success with DECA for joint pain in the 100-200 mg range, but keep an eye out for elevated BP and gyno, libido and erection issues. I don't see the use in adding dbol for joint pain. Many have gotten relief from Meriva curcumin which works as a natural NSAID like ibuprofen and proven in studies to relieve joint pain by reducing inflammation. Some swear by collagen powder as well including Mike O'Hearn who lifts insane weight at the age of +50.


----------



## ElChapo

TomTom1 said:


> Hi @ElChapo.
> 
> I just got my bloods back and wanted to get your thoughts. I’m running 200mg test E and 200 mg of mast E weekly.
> 
> I inject every 7 days and had a venous sample taken on day 6, right before my jab. I’m happy with my trough T level but my sexual performance isn’t 100%, so I think my E and prolactin levels need some help.
> 
> Just to note - I refrained from any sexual activity for 72 hours prior to the blood test so as not to skew the prolactin result.
> 
> Ive been running 300mg of b6 for a number of months so this doesn’t seem to be enough. What are your thoughts on super low dose caber and Adex until I start to feel 100%?
> 
> Cheers
> View attachment 210286


What was the last time you remember having good sexual performance? Are you on a carb restricted diet or calorie deficit? Are you training a lot? Stress levels? 


Prolactin and estradiol are not overtly elevated. Do you use porn? Is your issue libido or erection quality?


----------



## ElChapo

Simon90 said:


> Hya mate, can heavy training cause an increase of troponin? I had some bloods done and they came back high, the test was soon after gym. They kept me in to test again and the levels had dropped so they said in fine but they said they don't know what caused the spike in first test. They said caffeine probably, which I can't see as it was only 200mg I use.
> Also I'm guessing alt risen to 142 would be also related to training before the test aswell. Cheers


Yes it can, even liver enzymes can be elevated from intensive exercise.


----------



## TomTom1

ElChapo said:


> What was the last time you remember having good sexual performance? Are you on a carb restricted diet or calorie deficit? Are you training a lot? Stress levels?
> 
> 
> Prolactin and estradiol are not overtly elevated. Do you use porn? Is your issue libido or erection quality?


Thanks for the reply mate.

it was about 3 weeks ago since this has changed. Around 6 weeks ago I was dieting hard in a big calorie deficit running 400mg test and 200mg mast.

I’ve then tapered down to 200mg of each which has coincided with a switch to a calorie surplus -each week adding in some more calories. I’m up to around 4000 on training days and 2500 on non training days.

I train 5 days per week, always with high intensity. Stress levels are very low at the moment due to a positive work situation.

My issue seems purely an erection quality one - libido is good. I don’t use porn - got a rampant misses for that!

I know you mention that they’re not overly elevated - but as they were taken on the day before my injection, wouldn’t they have been much higher through the earlier part of the week?

Cheers


----------



## Thejackal70

ElChapo said:


> What joints are bothering you? Usually the first step is to address the cause of the issue and any aggravating factors (muscle imbalance, movements causing stress, etc) before using supplements/meds. Do you know what caused the injury/chronic issue in the first place?
> 
> 
> Some men have success with DECA for joint pain in the 100-200 mg range, but keep an eye out for elevated BP and gyno, libido and erection issues. I don't see the use in adding dbol for joint pain. Many have gotten relief from Meriva curcumin which works as a natural NSAID like ibuprofen and proven in studies to relieve joint pain by reducing inflammation. Some swear by collagen powder as well including Mike O'Hearn who lifts insane weight at the age of +50.


hi pal. Thanks for the reply. I’m not entirely sure the cause of it. It is my right elbow - when I squeeze my hand in a fist it hurts the boney part of my outer elbow. Also things like gripping or hand shaking or opening jars hurts.

I’ve been running bpc157 but it’s still not shifting. Been off the gym two weeks and have been using ice , rest and compression therapy and it’s still there.
Can’t think what else to do.


----------



## Jonk891

Hi mate.

I'm using 100mg test cyp every 4 days and 20mg of ostarine per day along with creatine daily. I'm running the cycle for recovery/endurance purposes only as I train to fight.

Do you think the test dose is high enough for my reasons for running the cycle and with regards to ostarine, is any liver support needed. I am currently using 2 x 700mg NAC per day along with 2g of vitamin c.

I don't plan to have anymore kids but like to keep my testicles full, would 500iu per week of hcg achieve this as my testicles shrink even on low doses of test.


----------



## ElChapo

TomTom1 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate.
> 
> it was about 3 weeks ago since this has changed. Around 6 weeks ago I was dieting hard in a big calorie deficit running 400mg test and 200mg mast.
> 
> I’ve then tapered down to 200mg of each which has coincided with a switch to a calorie surplus -each week adding in some more calories. I’m up to around 4000 on training days and 2500 on non training days.
> 
> I train 5 days per week, always with high intensity. Stress levels are very low at the moment due to a positive work situation.
> 
> My issue seems purely an erection quality one - libido is good. I don’t use porn - got a rampant misses for that!
> 
> I know you mention that they’re not overly elevated - but as they were taken on the day before my injection, wouldn’t they have been much higher through the earlier part of the week?
> 
> Cheers


The estradiol, yes. What do you think may have changed 3 weeks ago? You can try 0.5 mg adex or lowering the T dose. Try your best to pinpoint what may have triggered the issue around 3 weeks.


What stack were you on when your erections were at their best? With hormones, the effects can take 3-4 weeks to "kick in" so what you are feeling since 3 weeks ago may have been triggered from what you started doing or taking 6 weeks ago. 


Were your erections better on the 400 mg of testosterone or before that? Do you do any cardio and do you know your average resting blood pressure?


There is also a possibility that masteron is causing it. Masteron is known for enhacing sexual performance but it could also cause issues and you also never know if its really masteron when it comes to UGL.


----------



## ElChapo

Thejackal70 said:


> hi pal. Thanks for the reply. I’m not entirely sure the cause of it. It is my right elbow - when I squeeze my hand in a fist it hurts the boney part of my outer elbow. Also things like gripping or hand shaking or opening jars hurts.
> 
> I’ve been running bpc157 but it’s still not shifting. Been off the gym two weeks and have been using ice , rest and compression therapy and it’s still there.
> Can’t think what else to do.


Do you do preacher curls or curl with a straight bar? Were you curling heavy weight? 


Does it hurt at rest or only with activity? give it 1-2 more weeks of rest, that usually handles even more moderate-severe strains/sprains on it's own. You can follow up with a sports medicine doctor if 2 more weeks of rest doesn't do the trick.

Collagen, zinc and vitamin C will improve wound healing. Meriva curcumin will improve pain and lower inflammation.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Hi mate.
> 
> I'm using 100mg test cyp every 4 days and 20mg of ostarine per day along with creatine daily. I'm running the cycle for recovery/endurance purposes only as I train to fight.
> 
> Do you think the test dose is high enough for my reasons for running the cycle and with regards to ostarine, is any liver support needed. I am currently using 2 x 700mg NAC per day along with 2g of vitamin c.
> 
> I don't plan to have anymore kids but like to keep my testicles full, would 500iu per week of hcg achieve this as my testicles shrink even on low doses of test.


Supposedly, SARMs have caused liver injury in the past but it's probably not likely unless you have hepatitis, alcohol abuse, or preexisting liver issue. Always found AAS to be effective and minimal issues with responsible use, so sarms never peaked my interest. The best liver protection comes from TUDCA at 250-500 mg per day, NAC is a solid addition to a TUDCA stack, as is taurine, but it's unlikely you will have a liver issue on a SARM.

For combat sports like MMA/boxing/Jiujitsu, 100-300 mg testosterone propionate+ anavar or winstrol is very effective and keeps water retention on the lower side. Propionate causes less water retention for most people. 

For testicle fullness, HCG is best used at 1,000-1,500 IU. 500 IU is a very low weekly dose. I recommend 1,500 IU split twice or three times per week.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I don't see the point. Pretty sure it doesn't have to be refrigerated. It's usually a capsule. You should shake it vigorously. I'm not a fan of liquid research chems, they are more prone to going bad and are more prone to be lesser quality in my experience. I don't know if your body would produce it's own HGH while taking both together. Only way to find out is to try and draw bloods on both methods.
> 
> 
> MK677 may increase appetite and help with bulking. Might also help kick start your natural HGH production after taking HGH but permanent shut down doesnt usually happen when taking HGH like it does with testosterone.


Thx man!

Btw is it a bad Idea to get the covid vaccine if you are using aas, like tren etc? Or will it not have any impact at all?


----------



## Luke Cage

@ElChapo hi mate, my testosterone levels came back at 12nmol/l but my gp won’t prescribe any test. Any way to convince him otherwise?


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Supposedly, SARMs have caused liver injury in the past but it's probably not likely unless you have hepatitis, alcohol abuse, or preexisting liver issue. Always found AAS to be effective and minimal issues with responsible use, so sarms never peaked my interest. The best liver protection comes from TUDCA at 250-500 mg per day, NAC is a solid addition to a TUDCA stack, as is taurine, but it's unlikely you will have a liver issue on a SARM.
> 
> For combat sports like MMA/boxing/Jiujitsu, 100-300 mg testosterone propionate+ anavar or winstrol is very effective and keeps water retention on the lower side. Propionate causes less water retention for most people.
> 
> For testicle fullness, HCG is best used at 1,000-1,500 IU. 500 IU is a very low weekly dose. I recommend 1,500 IU split twice or three times per week.


I do have some Tudca to hand but its out of date, I'm guessing it will be fine to use. Should I run it during the cycle as I've read its best used after. 

I picked the ostarine over winstrol as I tend to suffer sometimes with joint pain so though it would be the better choice out of the 2, although I was thinking tbol would of been a good option. 

One last question on the ostarine. Its been in the cupboard for well over a year, still in date but absolutely stinks of nail polish remover. Is it supposed to smell this bad...it smells like poison lol


----------



## stewedw

Hi @ElChapo 

Whays your thoughts on using telemistartin on cycle? My BP has always been slightly elevated when on ie 130/60 - 135/70. Not massively high but higher than it should be nonetheless and I wanted to add 20mg telemistartin whilst on to improve this. Currently doing cardio three times a week, two sscv for 45 mins and 1 25min hiit circuit. 

I also walk around 6 miles a day for my job so I think I'm covering general cardio well and just wanted the added benifit of tele

Thanks.


----------



## Dute

@ElChapo Hi buddy, hope you're well.
Just curious on Telemisartan..there's a little research showing it can keep rbc down. Is this the case while on aas?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Thx man!
> 
> Btw is it a bad Idea to get the covid vaccine if you are using aas, like tren etc? Or will it not have any impact at all?


I don't recommend the "vaccine" for a virus with +99.6% survival rate in most people. It's not a vaccine in the traditional sense and is woefully lacking safety data and testing. 



The vaccine side effects seems to be much higher in young men, so it is likely there is some kind of interaction with AAS/testosterone. Look up myocarditis/teenager/men covid vaccine. This ain't political, just pure data without the propaganda.


----------



## ElChapo

Luke Cage said:


> @ElChapo hi mate, my testosterone levels came back at 12nmol/l but my gp won’t prescribe any test. Any way to convince him otherwise?



Did you tell him your can't get erections, have no energy, are depressed and it's affecting your relationship? That's the best bet, but many doctors think testosterone is poison. Urologists and anti-aging clinics are usually your best bet, the ladder being #1 in terms of ease.



You can try the above first and then try switching doctors if that fails. Many men end up self treating in the end, the quality of life and health benefits are notable.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> I do have some Tudca to hand but its out of date, I'm guessing it will be fine to use. Should I run it during the cycle as I've read its best used after.
> 
> I picked the ostarine over winstrol as I tend to suffer sometimes with joint pain so though it would be the better choice out of the 2, although I was thinking tbol would of been a good option.
> 
> One last question on the ostarine. Its been in the cupboard for well over a year, still in date but absolutely stinks of nail polish remover. Is it supposed to smell this bad...it smells like poison lol


The smell is probably the solution it's suspended in. I am against liquid "research chems" and ancillaries. They just tend to be poorer quality in my experience. I don't know what to tell you, i probably wouldn't use it myself, i avoid liquid black market stuff.


The TUDCA should be fine. Superdrol is a solid alternative to winstrol. It is very powerful.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Whays your thoughts on using telemistartin on cycle? My BP has always been slightly elevated when on ie 130/60 - 135/70. Not massively high but higher than it should be nonetheless and I wanted to add 20mg telemistartin whilst on to improve this. Currently doing cardio three times a week, two sscv for 45 mins and 1 25min hiit circuit.
> 
> I also walk around 6 miles a day for my job so I think I'm covering general cardio well and just wanted the added benifit of tele
> 
> Thanks.


130/60-135/70 is nothing to be concerned about. I would only be concerned at long term +140/90 mmhg. Short term, even 140/90 isn't an issue 


I wouldn't bother, and you are very active which is your #1 cardioprotective thing.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> @ElChapo Hi buddy, hope you're well.
> Just curious on Telemisartan..there's a little research showing it can keep rbc down. Is this the case while on aas?


Generally, the decreases are insignificant in real life. They are "statisically" significant which doesnt amount to much. 


I have seen anecdotes of people claiming big drops in RBC, but they don't really add up. A medication that drops RBC significantly would not be used in high percentage of population who needs BP meds (Elderly are at higher risk of anemia). 


If you want to try and see if it works, but make sure you already have hypertension, taking BP meds when you don't need them can be very dangerous. You can pass out or hit your head from a fall due to drop in BP.


----------



## zariph

ElChapo said:


> I don't recommend the "vaccine" for a virus with +99.6% survival rate in most people. It's not a vaccine in the traditional sense and is woefully lacking safety data and testing.
> 
> 
> 
> The vaccine side effects seems to be much higher in young men, so it is likely there is some kind of interaction with AAS/testosterone. Look up myocarditis/teenager/men covid vaccine. This ain't political, just pure data without the propaganda.


Yeh I noticed, but I guess the chances for getting covid is even higher than getting the side effects. Also I guess covid can be really bad if you get it while on aas, especially like tren? I guess you didnt take the vaccine?


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> The smell is probably the solution it's suspended in. I am against liquid "research chems" and ancillaries. They just tend to be poorer quality in my experience. I don't know what to tell you, i probably wouldn't use it myself, i avoid liquid black market stuff.
> 
> 
> The TUDCA should be fine. Superdrol is a solid alternative to winstrol. It is very powerful.


It ain't liquid its oral form 10mg capsules. Its called ostamax by german pharma.


----------



## Pancake'

@ElChapo What is some reliable, unbiased sources or research to follow and keep well informed on with coronavirus matters and implications/conclusions drawn with the negative impact of these vaccines? basically what outlets are actually being objective and reliable and worth following or sourcing information from?


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Thanks for the informative responses, much appreciated
> 
> which would yield better results in terms of fat loss, muscle growth, better recovery and general well being
> 
> 150-250mg test per week long term say 12-18 months
> 
> 12iu pharma growth 12-18 months



HGH has diminishing returns when it comes to well-being. Taking a high dose over 3-4 IU can make you more tired, sleepy and increase your blood sugar.


150-250 mg testosterone is basically TRT range.


The question is too broad. If you are addressing a T deficiency or suboptimal testosterone ; testosterone.


If you are older and have low IGF-1/HGH levels, then you will see better results from HGH, but 12 IU is a crazy amount if you mean daily for anything but stacking with insulin for muscle growth. If you meant 12 IU weekly, that's also a replacement dosage.


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Yeh I noticed, but I guess the chances for getting covid is even higher than getting the side effects. Also I guess covid can be really bad if you get it while on aas, especially like tren? I guess you didnt take the vaccine?


1. Covid will kill less than 99% of the people that contract it. The news pumps out fear porn which has people losing their minds in fear. This is likely for political reasons but i won't get into that here.

2. There are cheap and safe medications with decades of safety data that will stop a bad covid case in it's tracks. Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.

3. These are facts^ I'm from NYC and in the healthcare field, i am in the middle of the "warzone". I have seen +80 year old with HIV, COPD, diabetes and CHF survive covid-19. What do you think the chances are for a younger, relatively healthy person with support of the medications i mentioned above^. 


You and everyone you know has already likely had covid and most don't even know it. Asymptomatic cases are extremely common as i'm sure you have met someone who found out they had it ONLY because they got testing done.


I don't recommend the vaccines and won't take it. It's not actually vaccine either.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> It ain't liquid its oral form 10mg capsules. Its called ostamax by german pharma.


No clue then. I was never impressed by SARMs. I think they are overrated.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> @ElChapo What is some reliable, unbiased sources or research to follow and keep well informed on with coronavirus matters and implications/conclusions drawn with the negative impact of these vaccines? basically what outlets are actually being objective and reliable and worth following or sourcing information from?



I like to go straight to the raw data, and even that can be adulterated and polluted with political/financial bias, but it tends to be "cleaner" than the evening news rags and papers who make a lot of money off fear mongering. You can read the research papers directly. A lot of the information i cite is directly from the CDC (Like the extremely high survival rate of covid/etc).


At the end of the day, you need to use sound judhement and critical thinking to filter the trash from the more reliable information, no matter where it comes from.


----------



## Pancake'

ElChapo said:


> I like to go straight to the raw data, and even that can be adulterated and polluted with political/financial bias, but it tends to be "cleaner" than the evening news rags and papers who make a lot of money off fear mongering. You can read the research papers directly. A lot of the information i cite is directly from the CDC (Like the extremely high survival rate of covid/etc).
> 
> At the end of the day, you need to use sound judhement and critical thinking to filter the trash from the more reliable information, no matter where it comes from.


Could you please reply with some links mate? I can only ever seem to find mainstream supported tosh, would google scholar and pubmed be reliable? I’m not familiar with CDC?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I've starting taking an SSRI and unfortunately it increase my prolactin levels and gives gyno.
I can't use caber while on it, I'm taking P-5-P but it doesn't seem to work.

Do you think adding raloxifene would help for prolactin gyno?


----------



## JakobJuice

Pancake' said:


> Could you please reply with some links mate? I can only ever seem to find mainstream supported tosh, would google scholar and pubmed be reliable? I’m not familiar with CDC?





https://victorblackmasterclass.com/


-> lots of stuff to read with science based backgrounds etc.





__





TeamEvilGSP – TeamEvilGSP







teamevilgsp.com




-> same here but with more videos

you can decide for yourself if those guys seem smart to you or are full of shit.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Could you please reply with some links mate? I can only ever seem to find mainstream supported tosh, would google scholar and pubmed be reliable? I’m not familiar with CDC?


Epoch times is a good news source. They have a covid section on their site. 


Scholar and pubmed are fine, but remember, even studies can have biases via funding or political pressure, so it's up to you to catch things that don't add up.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I've starting taking an SSRI and unfortunately it increase my prolactin levels and gives gyno.
> I can't use caber while on it, I'm taking P-5-P but it doesn't seem to work.
> 
> Do you think adding raloxifene would help for prolactin gyno?



Have you tried wellbutrin instead? SSRIs i generally recommend against due to sexual side effects and weight gain as well as dependence that builds to it.


Do you have bipolar disorder? Have you tried addressing depression issues in other ways? If you are in the UK, you may not be getting enough sunlight. Make sure you get enough carbs (increases serotonin naturally) and that your thyroid hormones and testosterone, estradiol, vitamin D are all optimal.


Ralox might work, but SSRIs are nasty stuff. why cant you take caber?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Have you tried wellbutrin instead? SSRIs i generally recommend against due to sexual side effects and weight gain as well as dependence that builds to it.
> 
> 
> Do you have bipolar disorder? Have you tried addressing depression issues in other ways? If you are in the UK, you may not be getting enough sunlight. Make sure you get enough carbs (increases serotonin naturally) and that your thyroid hormones and testosterone, estradiol, vitamin D are all optimal.
> 
> 
> Ralox might work, but SSRIs are nasty stuff. why cant you take caber?


Not yet , been on Sertraline since some weeks and it only started to work.
I take it for anxiety , not depression , Wellbutrin is not advised for me since it can heightened anxiety.

Caber are dopamine agonist and it can be dangerous to take with the SSRI I take since it also touch dopamine , to a lesser degree.
I just started raloxifene, but tbh I hate It , I get low mood and feminizing effect on it like my voice is softer when I talk , but it used to work well for my gyno symptoms.

Yes SSRI are nasty stuff, It took me 6 years to start it , been suffering from anxiety since more than 10 years and lately it got so bad that I accepted to try medication.
Gyno from it really sucks.. but everytime something increase my prolactin levels I get it .


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Not yet , been on Sertraline since some weeks and it only started to work.
> I take it for anxiety , not depression , Wellbutrin is not advised for me since it can heightened anxiety.
> 
> Caber are dopamine agonist and it can be dangerous to take with the SSRI I take since it also touch dopamine , to a lesser degree.
> I just started raloxifene, but tbh I hate It , I get low mood and feminizing effect on it like my voice is softer when I talk , but it used to work well for my gyno symptoms.
> 
> Yes SSRI are nasty stuff, It took me 6 years to start it , been suffering from anxiety since more than 10 years and lately it got so bad that I accepted to try medication.
> Gyno from it really sucks.. but everytime something increase my prolactin levels I get it .


Do you eat low carb or keto diet? Are you maintaining very low body fat year round? Do you do HIIT? Cardio? Do you have rest days? Do you drink coffee or take stimulants/preworkout?

I know what caber is, there is no interaction between it and SSRI that is significant. SSRI doesnt really hit dopamine and in fact, some ssri may decrease dopamine.


Here is a study where caber was given for SSRI induced gyno: [Duloxetine Associated Galactorrhea and Hyperprolactinemia: A Case Report] - PubMed


Of course, SSRI was discontinued in that study. Let me know more about your diet and lifestyle, there may be something you can address without drugs to relieve the anxiety.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Do you eat low carb or keto diet? Are you maintaining very low body fat year round? Do you do HIIT? Cardio? Do you have rest days? Do you drink coffee or take stimulants/preworkout?
> 
> I know what caber is, there is no interaction between it and SSRI that is significant. SSRI doesnt really hit dopamine and in fact, some ssri may decrease dopamine.
> 
> 
> Here is a study where caber was given for SSRI induced gyno: [Duloxetine Associated Galactorrhea and Hyperprolactinemia: A Case Report] - PubMed
> 
> 
> Of course, SSRI was discontinued in that study. Let me know more about your diet and lifestyle, there may be something you can address without drugs to relieve the anxiety.


I'm not on low carb , but I'm on a diet since some weeks for cutting , I'm low bf (9-10%) , 12% year round and 6-10% during summer.
I do HIIT, cardio everyday after my 2h training, 2 rest days , I do take coffee but only 200mg.

I do take all healthy supplements since years , my anxiety is from when I was really young , it's been almost 10 years I'm seing a psy , it does help but never cured it.
The covid situation made it worse to the point where I had anxiety attack during the night.. which was horrible.

SSRI was prescribed in 2015 , I took 6 years to finally start it. Yes I really wanted to avoid it , really.
It was like my last thing to try , my last "hope" to help my anxiety problems. (it runs in family too but I'm the worst)

Since some days I'm seing anxiety relief from the SSRI , but damn the prolactin issue is annoying (many other sides too but they are not that bad anymore).
I started Ralox yesterday and in an hour the pain stopped ( I had the pain since 5 days and there is fatty gyno growth already..)
I hate ralox tbh , it make me depressed and less talkative , I already feel it.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo
I had a question in mind since some time,

Does Tbol affect dopamine release?

I took Tbol 3 times , and everytime I had like a dopamine boost then a crash/lethargy (even with perfect liver/blood values).
Also I had the 3 times a bad time after the Tbol stoppage, I had low mood/felt sad for like 2 weeks. (I was still on TRT).

Does Tbol deplete dopamine ?

Also, does Raloxifene reduce water retention?
It looks like I hold a bit less water everytime I use it, but not sure if it's from it or just the cutting diet


----------



## Pancake'

Do higher carb diets and or higher food intakes negatively impact your cognition/executive functioning? I have heard people state that fasting they think sharper, don’t experience as much brain fog etc.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> I'm not on low carb , but I'm on a diet since some weeks for cutting , I'm low bf (9-10%) , 12% year round and 6-10% during summer.
> I do HIIT, cardio everyday after my 2h training, 2 rest days , I do take coffee but only 200mg.
> 
> I do take all healthy supplements since years , my anxiety is from when I was really young , it's been almost 10 years I'm seing a psy , it does help but never cured it.
> The covid situation made it worse to the point where I had anxiety attack during the night.. which was horrible.
> 
> SSRI was prescribed in 2015 , I took 6 years to finally start it. Yes I really wanted to avoid it , really.
> It was like my last thing to try , my last "hope" to help my anxiety problems. (it runs in family too but I'm the worst)
> 
> Since some days I'm seing anxiety relief from the SSRI , but damn the prolactin issue is annoying (many other sides too but they are not that bad anymore).
> I started Ralox yesterday and in an hour the pain stopped ( I had the pain since 5 days and there is fatty gyno growth already..)
> I hate ralox tbh , it make me depressed and less talkative , I already feel it.



Have you ever tried magnesium glycinate+Vitamin C combo? Are you on any TRT right now?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> Have you ever tried magnesium glycinate+Vitamin C combo? Are you on any TRT right now?


yes I'm taking them, also Magnesium L-threonate morning and before sleep (sleeping better with it).
My vitamins/bloods are perfect , pre SSRI.
I'm on self TRT , 80mg test P e3d . E2 in range too , being doing this 80mg since a year and is perfect.

Also, I'm really annoyed , the med started to work for my anxiety some days ago and I'm happy with it because the first few weeks were hell , but since 10 days I get gyno from it so I started ralox 4 days ago at 60mg, it stopped the itch/pain/growth for 2 days but now since 2 days it hurts again and grows more..
Should I up to 120mg?

I also have an appointment with a Dr next month, to talk about surgery but they don't know I'm using test, they will send me see an endo , do bloods etc.

Edit: I'm asking you for the 120mg ralox, because it's an anti cancer drug and I know it's not healthy and 120mg is a big dose.
Whats your thought about it ? I can try 1-2 days at 120mg and see if it stop completely the pain/growth


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> yes I'm taking them, also Magnesium L-threonate morning and before sleep (sleeping better with it).
> My vitamins/bloods are perfect , pre SSRI.
> I'm on self TRT , 80mg test P e3d . E2 in range too , being doing this 80mg since a year and is perfect.
> 
> Also, I'm really annoyed , the med started to work for my anxiety some days ago and I'm happy with it because the first few weeks were hell , but since 10 days I get gyno from it so I started ralox 4 days ago at 60mg, it stopped the itch/pain/growth for 2 days but now since 2 days it hurts again and grows more..
> Should I up to 120mg?
> 
> I also have an appointment with a Dr next month, to talk about surgery but they don't know I'm using test, they will send me see an endo , do bloods etc.
> 
> Edit: I'm asking you for the 120mg ralox, because it's an anti cancer drug and I know it's not healthy and 120mg is a big dose.
> Whats your thought about it ? I can try 1-2 days at 120mg and see if it stop completely the pain/growth


Have you tried mag glycinate+Vitamin C? 


Ralox/nolva is a marathon, not a sprint. We see that SERMs will reverse the gyno from SSRIs but only when you discontinue the drug has it been proven to work.


----------



## Brodhurst

Hi El Chapo

Can you take a look at my bloods please? I was taking 300testE, 200mast per week and 25mg proviron per day. Ive stopped as I was getting headaches and slightly elevated blood pressure. Anything on the bloods apart from kidneys that would be causing it?


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo 

Can winstrol have a negative effect on digestion? 
I've been using 50mg per day for 3 weeks (first time using winstrol) and started to suffer indigestion and acid reflux and can't eat as much as I did without feeling sick and full on meals I normally eat every day but since adding winstrol I'm struggling to eat sometimes which isn't good as I'm on a cycle, I literally struggle to eat my post work out meal where as before it was my favourite meal of the day (biggest meal) im feeling quite lethargic too and low energy which is strange. Only running 300mg test e a week along side the winnie and never had issue before with test so heading towards winstrol? Going to do e2 bloods next week as the low energy can be from elevated e2.

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> Hi El Chapo
> 
> Can you take a look at my bloods please? I was taking 300testE, 200mast per week and 25mg proviron per day. Ive stopped as I was getting headaches and slightly elevated blood pressure. Anything on the bloods apart from kidneys that would be causing it?


Yeah, your hematocrit is extremely high. So your blood is thicker. This can cause headaches and facial flushing, high BP. It may increase the risk of stroke/heart attack. Donating blood will bring it down but will also drop your iron stores. It may take about 2-3 donations to get it back into range but if you don't supplement heavily with iron, you will become anemic.


Keep eye on thyroid (looks sluggish) and prolactin (elevated).


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Can winstrol have a negative effect on digestion?
> I've been using 50mg per day for 3 weeks (first time using winstrol) and started to suffer indigestion and acid reflux and can't eat as much as I did without feeling sick and full on meals I normally eat every day but since adding winstrol I'm struggling to eat sometimes which isn't good as I'm on a cycle, I literally struggle to eat my post work out meal where as before it was my favourite meal of the day (biggest meal) im feeling quite lethargic too and low energy which is strange. Only running 300mg test e a week along side the winnie and never had issue before with test so heading towards winstrol? Going to do e2 bloods next week as the low energy can be from elevated e2.
> 
> Many thanks


Yes, not an uncommon side effect from orals. Oral AAS can affect bile flow which can affect digestion. Were you taking any TUDCA? The TUDCA stops the bile flow from being impaired by oral AAS. This is also one of the main ways it prevents liver toxicity. 


Are you taking any liver protection? Your liver might be stressed. Some people are more sensitive than others to oral AAS/liver issues and if you are drinking alcohol, even occasionally, it can have a negative effect.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> I had a question in mind since some time,
> 
> Does Tbol affect dopamine release?
> 
> I took Tbol 3 times , and everytime I had like a dopamine boost then a crash/lethargy (even with perfect liver/blood values).
> Also I had the 3 times a bad time after the Tbol stoppage, I had low mood/felt sad for like 2 weeks. (I was still on TRT).
> 
> Does Tbol deplete dopamine ?
> 
> Also, does Raloxifene reduce water retention?
> It looks like I hold a bit less water everytime I use it, but not sure if it's from it or just the cutting diet



How long have you been trying to maintain low body fat? Some people get anxious when they are leaner, just genetics. So if you are fighting to stay lean, that may be boosting those anxiety causing chemicals that also help release fat in a deficit. (adrenaline/noradrenaline)


Many androgens and metabolites can have an effect on neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin/adrenaline/etc. This is why T and E can affect libido, energy, and mood. So it's possible you are getting some effect from tbol. I don't know if it will "deplete" dopamine. It could be having an effect on cortisol activity in the body, potent androgens can block cortisol activity which may affect mood and energy positively/negatively.

Ralox; not sure about the water retention. I have seen some people get water retention from it, yours might just be from the cutting diet.


About carbs: Short term, they can make you feel more tired/sleepy/sluggish because they boost serotonin and tryptophan and trigger the "rest and digest" vs the "fight or flight" system; AKA Parasympathetic vs sympathetic nervous system tone, and short term AVOIDING carbs may boost alertness, focus and energy by boosting cortisol/adrenaline, but long term avoidance of carbs can lead to decreased libido, lower energy, and lower mood. Low carb/keto diet lowers leptin levels and conversion of T4 to T3. Avoid carbs may also increase anxiety.


I don't recommend low carb/keto diets long term for most people. It is okay for short term dieting and if you cycle it with regular carb refeeds.


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> How long have you been trying to maintain low body fat? Some people get anxious when they are leaner, just genetics. So if you are fighting to stay lean, that may be boosting those anxiety causing chemicals that also help release fat in a deficit. (adrenaline/noradrenaline)
> 
> 
> Many androgens and metabolites can have an effect on neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin/adrenaline/etc. This is why T and E can affect libido, energy, and mood. So it's possible you are getting some effect from tbol. I don't know if it will "deplete" dopamine. It could be having an effect on cortisol activity in the body, potent androgens can block cortisol activity which may affect mood and energy positively/negatively.
> 
> Ralox; not sure about the water retention. I have seen some people get water retention from it, yours might just be from the cutting diet.
> 
> 
> About carbs: Short term, they can make you feel more tired/sleepy/sluggish because they boost serotonin and tryptophan and trigger the "rest and digest" vs the "fight or flight" system; AKA Parasympathetic vs sympathetic nervous system tone, and short term AVOIDING carbs may boost alertness, focus and energy by boosting cortisol/adrenaline, but long term avoidance of carbs can lead to decreased libido, lower energy, and lower mood. Low carb/keto diet lowers leptin levels and conversion of T4 to T3. Avoid carbs may also increase anxiety.
> 
> 
> I don't recommend low carb/keto diets long term for most people. It is okay for short term dieting and if you cycle it with regular carb refeeds.


Thank you for your time.

My anxiety is part from genetic , how I think and how I was educated. it's really hard to 'heal' because I always lived with it.
Anyway, the SSRI is working a bit and I'm happy BUT the gyno side effect is damn annoying.

In my country, for gyno surgery they send you see an endocrinologist , do blood tests etc. I can't hide if I'm on TRT and they'll see that my LH/FSH are at 0.
I'd like to be able to just go to there surgeon and get it done without doing all kind of tests and taking months.

For my body fat, I started in April the cut , but I still eat carbs and even with normal/high carbs I always had my anxiety.
I do feel better with low BF thought , more healthy and liking myself better too.


----------



## Brodhurst

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, your hematocrit is extremely high. So your blood is thicker. This can cause headaches and facial flushing, high BP. It may increase the risk of stroke/heart attack. Donating blood will bring it down but will also drop your iron stores. It may take about 2-3 donations to get it back into range but if you don't supplement heavily with iron, you will become anemic.
> 
> 
> Keep eye on thyroid (looks sluggish) and prolactin (elevated).


I thought it was only just elevated, didn’t realise that would cause the headaches. I’ll try donating blood and see if that helps. 
Thanks


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Yes, not an uncommon side effect from orals. Oral AAS can affect bile flow which can affect digestion. Were you taking any TUDCA? The TUDCA stops the bile flow from being impaired by oral AAS. This is also one of the main ways it prevents liver toxicity.
> 
> 
> Are you taking any liver protection? Your liver might be stressed. Some people are more sensitive than others to oral AAS/liver issues and if you are drinking alcohol, even occasionally, it can have a negative effect.


I'm not using any liver protection at the moment, just 5 litres of water per day and make sure my urine is always clear, il order some tudca today. Would you recommend carrying on the winnie or stop and add in tudca for a few weeks to replenish so to speak the liver then resume the winnie alongside the tudca together?

Ive had few drinks on a Friday where its been special occasions which I normally skip the winnie on that day but have no more occasions coming up so alcohol will not be consumed from now on in.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> Thank you for your time.
> 
> My anxiety is part from genetic , how I think and how I was educated. it's really hard to 'heal' because I always lived with it.
> Anyway, the SSRI is working a bit and I'm happy BUT the gyno side effect is damn annoying.
> 
> In my country, for gyno surgery they send you see an endocrinologist , do blood tests etc. I can't hide if I'm on TRT and they'll see that my LH/FSH are at 0.
> I'd like to be able to just go to there surgeon and get it done without doing all kind of tests and taking months.
> 
> For my body fat, I started in April the cut , but I still eat carbs and even with normal/high carbs I always had my anxiety.
> I do feel better with low BF thought , more healthy and liking myself better too.



Most doctors don't test LH/FSH as far as i know. 

Just tell them you've had gyno since puberty and it makes you severely depressed and anxious.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> I'm not using any liver protection at the moment, just 5 litres of water per day and make sure my urine is always clear, il order some tudca today. Would you recommend carrying on the winnie or stop and add in tudca for a few weeks to replenish so to speak the liver then resume the winnie alongside the tudca together?
> 
> Ive had few drinks on a Friday where its been special occasions which I normally skip the winnie on that day but have no more occasions coming up so alcohol will not be consumed from now on in.


Water won't do shit and urine color won't tell you if you have liver problems. 


250-500 mg TUDCA+1,000 MG NAC is ideal.


I would probably drop the winstrol until you get the TUDCA/NAC. Avoid all drinking if you want to be safe on winstrol, skipping one day is likely not going to help.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Water won't do shit and urine color won't tell you if you have liver problems.
> 
> 
> 250-500 mg TUDCA+1,000 MG NAC is ideal.
> 
> 
> I would probably drop the winstrol until you get the TUDCA/NAC. Avoid all drinking if you want to be safe on winstrol, skipping one day is likely not going to help.


the reason behind the water only was researching the forum and seen many members say water is the best for liver with issues and aslong urine is clear it should suffice.

I've dropped the winstrol altogether. Got the TUDCA coming tomorrow will start that. Its a month supply so will use that for 30 days and go from there.

Whats your thoughts on calcium gluconate for lowering e2 instead of using adex/aromasin? Seen it being mentioned alot lately for e2 control instead of an ai?


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> the reason behind the water only was researching the forum and seen many members say water is the best for liver with issues and aslong urine is clear it should suffice.
> 
> I've dropped the winstrol altogether. Got the TUDCA coming tomorrow will start that. Its a month supply so will use that for 30 days and go from there.
> 
> Whats your thoughts on calcium gluconate for lowering e2 instead of using adex/aromasin? Seen it being mentioned alot lately for e2 control instead of an ai?


Not at all, perfectly clear urine doesn't mean anything. Your liver could be really messed up and you can piss clear just by drinking a lot of water.


Don't touch the calcium stuff, it can mess with other hormones and likely won't do anything. There is always some new fad. Most guys will do fine without controlling E2, but those that have issues usually only need a tiny bit of AI, 0.5-1 mg Adex per week max. Messing with E too much can impair libido, erections, and even gym performance and mood.


----------



## zariph

Hi mate

Lantus and Toujeo both contains insulin glargin - only difference seems to be toujeo is more concentrated which give it a longer half life. So will both of these have the exact same effects on increase on IGF-1 and overall lowering bloodsuger?

Is Toujeo bad for people that arent diabetic, or dangerous, since it keeps going even during sleep - can this be dangerous? I know lantus only seems to work for 12-16 hours, is this way more bodybuilders tends to use this, so that it remains active during meals but falls on during night?


----------



## Artgg

Hey El Chapo and thanks for helping people out. My first cycle was 350 test e and 300 primo all went good until week 5. I had terrible sleep issues, couldn’t fall sleep or stay asleep I felt stimulated all the time, I had ridiculous cramps sort of like alien gains, not sleeping whole night twice a week start taking toll on psychological part. I didnt know what was that I did bloods and my estrogen were 82pmol, continued cycle finished and start bridge of test e alone 200mg and my sleep returned, start feel good again. Later on Im on my second cycle, decided to try masteron and had same exact issues with first cycle so I dropped mast just left use test alone 600mg a week, sleep start to be great again, recovery well, all good untill I accidentally took 1mg of aramidex instead my 0.5 and exactly same symptoms returned for two days I did bloods and my e2 were 75pmol. So basically if I use primo or mast Im crashing my e2 badly symptoms of low e2 are actually okay my skin look better I look dry but only downside Im not sleeping even a minute. What would you recommend if I would decide start mast again and how can I keep my e2 high with anabolics ? Btw I added dbol to raise e2 and it didnt help much.


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> Not at all, perfectly clear urine doesn't mean anything. Your liver could be really messed up and you can piss clear just by drinking a lot of water.
> 
> 
> Don't touch the calcium stuff, it can mess with other hormones and likely won't do anything. There is always some new fad. Most guys will do fine without controlling E2, but those that have issues usually only need a tiny bit of AI, 0.5-1 mg Adex per week max. Messing with E too much can impair libido, erections, and even gym performance and mood.


Thank you for that, my tudca came today and it has calcium D-glucarate in and DIM here's the link to the Tudca I've purchased Supplement Needs Liver Stack

What do you think?


----------



## Brodhurst

Brodhurst said:


> I thought it was only just elevated, didn’t realise that would cause the headaches. I’ll try donating blood and see if that helps.
> Thanks


@ElChapo
Hi El Chapo,

So I’ve just given blood, half a litre I think.Have to wait twelve weeks until I can donate again. Should this make any difference to the way I feel? Headache wise?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo High BP for 6-8 weeks on an oral , can it be really harmful for the body?


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Hi mate
> 
> Lantus and Toujeo both contains insulin glargin - only difference seems to be toujeo is more concentrated which give it a longer half life. So will both of these have the exact same effects on increase on IGF-1 and overall lowering bloodsuger?
> 
> Is Toujeo bad for people that arent diabetic, or dangerous, since it keeps going even during sleep - can this be dangerous? I know lantus only seems to work for 12-16 hours, is this way more bodybuilders tends to use this, so that it remains active during meals but falls on during night?


Likely yes, half life is longer, but lantus has higher overall level, but the trough is not as smooth. At the end of the day, the effect will probably be the same.


Having a big meal containing a mix of carbs and protein to slow down digestion/absorption is the best way to mitigate risk of hypoglycemia during sleep. The biggest danger of using insulin is hypoglycemia which can put you in a coma or kill you. Your risk of hypoglycemia is increased during sleep because your cortisol levels are at their lowest. Cortisol helps your body raise blood sugar.


Insulin is a high risk protocol that should only be reserved for highly advanced bodybuilders, guys that are already "big" and trying to take it to the next level and should be done under the supervision of an experienced coach.


----------



## ElChapo

Artgg said:


> Hey El Chapo and thanks for helping people out. My first cycle was 350 test e and 300 primo all went good until week 5. I had terrible sleep issues, couldn’t fall sleep or stay asleep I felt stimulated all the time, I had ridiculous cramps sort of like alien gains, not sleeping whole night twice a week start taking toll on psychological part. I didnt know what was that I did bloods and my estrogen were 82pmol, continued cycle finished and start bridge of test e alone 200mg and my sleep returned, start feel good again. Later on Im on my second cycle, decided to try masteron and had same exact issues with first cycle so I dropped mast just left use test alone 600mg a week, sleep start to be great again, recovery well, all good untill I accidentally took 1mg of aramidex instead my 0.5 and exactly same symptoms returned for two days I did bloods and my e2 were 75pmol. So basically if I use primo or mast Im crashing my e2 badly symptoms of low e2 are actually okay my skin look better I look dry but only downside Im not sleeping even a minute. What would you recommend if I would decide start mast again and how can I keep my e2 high with anabolics ? Btw I added dbol to raise e2 and it didnt help much.


Were you taking an AI? Some guys get agitation or feel "amped" on DHT and DHT based AAS, i see this a lot with guys who use T cream on their balls (creates a lot of DHT).


The DHT based hormones seem to decrease the activity of E2, it will have zero effect on the E2 level itself. but the effect is almost the same.


Were you taking any AI or estrogen blocking meds while on the 350 Test E and 300 Primo? If you were, then try running the same stack with no AI at all, otherwise, you might want to avoid the DHT based AAS. 

Some guys have bad reactions to certain AAS, example; i get gyno just by looking at dbol and nandrolone, but other guys run it fine. I get zero libido/erection issues, but another guys will get spaghetti dick on nandrolone. Some guys because psychotic or agitated on trenbolone, my mood is great on it. We all respond differently to AAS, with trial and error you will find the stuff you respond to best and get the least side effects from.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Thank you for that, my tudca came today and it has calcium D-glucarate in and DIM here's the link to the Tudca I've purchased Supplement Needs Liver Stack
> 
> What do you think?


Not a fan of either of those ingredients because i don't like messing with natural estrogen metabolism, but you should be fine just using for for short term liver protection.


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> @ElChapo
> Hi El Chapo,
> 
> So I’ve just given blood, half a litre I think.Have to wait twelve weeks until I can donate again. Should this make any difference to the way I feel? Headache wise?



One blood donation, which is half liter, will usually drop hematocrit by 2-3%, or in your case 0.02-0.03. It will likely take 2 more donations to drop your hematocrit into a more reasonable range where symptoms will go away as i stated before, because your hematocrit was extremely high.

There is a special kind of donation called "double red" or "packed red blood cells" where they take twice the amount of blood cells, but they pump the fluid portion back into you. This would drop you back into range immediately, but it can drain your iron stores very fast.


Were you well hydrated when you drew blood in the labs you showed me with the high hematocrit? Being dehydrated will make the hematocrit appear higher than it actually is.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo High BP for 6-8 weeks on an oral , can it be really harmful for the body?


How high is the BP? Are you testing in the morning when you are relaxed?


6-8 weeks of moderately high BP is not dangerous, but 6-8 weeks of very high BP can be (+160/100 mmhg)


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> How high is the BP? Are you testing in the morning when you are relaxed?
> 
> 
> 6-8 weeks of moderately high BP is not dangerous, but 6-8 weeks of very high BP can be (+160/100 mmhg)


it gets from 12/6 to 14/8 on only 20mg tbol.
When I was using 50-75mg 2 years ago, I was at 16/9 and decided to stop because of that.


----------



## Artgg

ElChapo said:


> Were you taking an AI? Some guys get agitation or feel "amped" on DHT and DHT based AAS, i see this a lot with guys who use T cream on their balls (creates a lot of DHT).
> 
> 
> The DHT based hormones seem to decrease the activity of E2, it will have zero effect on the E2 level itself. but the effect is almost the same.
> 
> 
> Were you taking any AI or estrogen blocking meds while on the 350 Test E and 300 Primo? If you were, then try running the same stack with no AI at all, otherwise, you might want to avoid the DHT based AAS.
> 
> Some guys have bad reactions to certain AAS, example; i get gyno just by looking at dbol and nandrolone, but other guys run it fine. I get zero libido/erection issues, but another guys will get spaghetti dick on nandrolone. Some guys because psychotic or agitated on trenbolone, my mood is great on it. We all respond differently to AAS, with trial and error you will find the stuff you respond to best and get the least side effects from.


Hey thanks for reply. I havent use any ai on 350 test/300 primo, bloods shown it lowered my e2 regardless, I did bloods before cycle I had higher e2 which is 137pmol naturally. I only start using ai on 600 mg of test because of nips sensitivity. I felt really amped like you said, I turned into nicest guy ever, I were snappy before ass. I will try shorter ester next time drostanolone propionate and will try to inject early in the morning.


----------



## Brodhurst

ElChapo said:


> One blood donation, which is half liter, will usually drop hematocrit by 2-3%, or in your case 0.02-0.03. It will likely take 2 more donations to drop your hematocrit into a more reasonable range where symptoms will go away as i stated before, because your hematocrit was extremely high.
> 
> There is a special kind of donation called "double red" or "packed red blood cells" where they take twice the amount of blood cells, but they pump the fluid portion back into you. This would drop you back into range immediately, but it can drain your iron stores very fast.
> 
> 
> Were you well hydrated when you drew blood in the labs you showed me with the high hematocrit? Being dehydrated will make the hematocrit appear higher than it actually is.


Thanks for getting back to me @ElChapo. I had drunk some water but did the blood test first thing in the morning around 07:00 so def could of been more hydrated. I’m honestly not sure it’s a headache actually due to haematocrit, I’m prone to sinus issues. Hoping it’s not anyway. Ive also dropped down to a trt dose now, not sure if that will help at all.
Cheers again


----------



## Brodhurst

.


----------



## Dute

Hi @ElChapo ,
I know you advise raloxifene for gyno reduction. Could I use toremifene in it's place? Or is raloxifene better/less harsh? If so what sort of dosage would you recommend?

Thanks buddy


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> it gets from 12/6 to 14/8 on only 20mg tbol.
> When I was using 50-75mg 2 years ago, I was at 16/9 and decided to stop because of that.


I would not be concerned about 140/80 mmhg. Only an issue if you stay there for a very long time


----------



## ElChapo

Brodhurst said:


> Thanks for getting back to me @ElChapo. I had drunk some water but did the blood test first thing in the morning around 07:00 so def could of been more hydrated. I’m honestly not sure it’s a headache actually due to haematocrit, I’m prone to sinus issues. Hoping it’s not anyway. Ive also dropped down to a trt dose now, not sure if that will help at all.
> Cheers again


Red blood cells have a turnover rate on average of 10-12 weeks, so that's how long it might take for it to drop on its own once you lower your dose. If i read your HCT correctly, it was 58% which will definitely be able to cause headaches and may increase risk of stroke/heart attack.


You want to make sure you drink a lot of water all day the day before and day of your blood draw, urine should be light yellow or clear when you are well hydrated.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi @ElChapo ,
> I know you advise raloxifene for gyno reduction. Could I use toremifene in it's place? Or is raloxifene better/less harsh? If so what sort of dosage would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks buddy


I don't know that it will work. 


Ralox and nolvadex are proven clinically to reverse gynecomastia. If you can't source ralox, nolva works just as well most of the time. It can take 8-12 weeks of consistent use to see maximum results but it works even for old pubertal gyno.


----------



## Jabroni

Hello ElChapo,

I have a few questions about gene expression and hormones. I've read about 300+ pages of this AMA so far, so apologies if I'm asking questions you may have answered.

You mentioned that Testosterone begins gene expression after 26 weeks or so. Does the ester affect when the expression will take place? Will test base have it occur earlier?

Along the same lines, are all the different AAS analogues the same? Do they all take the same time period before beginning gene expression? Do all AAS perform gene expression, for example, m-tren or halotestin? If it takes 26 weeks or so like test, how would you make it safe to get these hormones to perform gene expression?

Apologies if I am not understanding how this all works. I have been fascinated by it since reading about you mention the process.


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> I don't know that it will work.
> 
> 
> Ralox and nolvadex are proven clinically to reverse gynecomastia. If you can't source ralox, nolva works just as well most of the time. It can take 8-12 weeks of consistent use to see maximum results but it works even for old pubertal gyno.


Thank you Elchapo, is 60mg of raloxifene daily the protocol?


----------



## Gymrat12

Hi @ElChapo, I would like to ask you about intermittent fasting. Do you think it provides any extra health benefits than the normal calorie restriction? do you think maybe all the claimed benefits came from the lost weight not from fasting itself? or abstaining from food for a long time does indeed improve our health even when calorie intake match at the end of the week?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo I'm training for strength/explosivity type of trainings.
Creatine works really really well for that BUT it increase my anxiety so bad unfortunately and make me irritable/in a bad mood so everytime I need to stop early.

Orals steroids make me feel like shit and are not healthy.
I'm on 200mg test P right now, and thinking of upping it to 400mg for 12 weeks (for my strength goals).

Would increasing my test from 200 to 400mg help much in term of training ? 
My diet will be a slow lean bulk , starting in 2 weeks.


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo I'm currently running 300mg test e on lean bulk, I'm splitting the dose 0.5ml Sunday 0.5ml Wednesday. I'm starting to get high e2 sides. If I was to add in adex at 0.25mg when would be the best time to implement it? Shall I split it 0.25 in half again and use a tiny bit after each jab or use the 0.25 after one of the jabs?

I only need 0.5mg adex on 600 test that's how I figured 0.25mg on 300 test, just confused when to implement it when jabbing twice a week, as I normally jab once a week. I'm trying the twice a week at the moment though so unsure when to dose ai correcrly

Thanks!


----------



## ElChapo

Jabroni said:


> Hello ElChapo,
> 
> I have a few questions about gene expression and hormones. I've read about 300+ pages of this AMA so far, so apologies if I'm asking questions you may have answered.
> 
> You mentioned that Testosterone begins gene expression after 26 weeks or so. Does the ester affect when the expression will take place? Will test base have it occur earlier?
> 
> Along the same lines, are all the different AAS analogues the same? Do they all take the same time period before beginning gene expression? Do all AAS perform gene expression, for example, m-tren or halotestin? If it takes 26 weeks or so like test, how would you make it safe to get these hormones to perform gene expression?
> 
> Apologies if I am not understanding how this all works. I have been fascinated by it since reading about you mention the process.


Gene expression doesnt happen just happen at 26 weeks, but its effect for certain physiological changes can take that long (like bone density changes). We see gene expression as soon as 3-4 weeks manifest in physical changes in the body.

Short esters tend to activate gene expression faster. Its almost certain that different AAS have different timings.


Dont worry about gene expression, etc, though, focus on progressive overload (increase reps or weight as often as possible without sacrificing form) proper nutrition (calories/protein) and rest/recovery and you will get the results you are looking for.


You do not need +26 weeks on to get results.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Thank you Elchapo, is 60mg of raloxifene daily the protocol?


Yes, technically meal containing fat will improve absorption as well.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> Hi @ElChapo, I would like to ask you about intermittent fasting. Do you think it provides any extra health benefits than the normal calorie restriction? do you think maybe all the claimed benefits came from the lost weight not from fasting itself? or abstaining from food for a long time does indeed improve our health even when calorie intake match at the end of the week?


1. Yes, it is very likely there are health benefits like improving insulin and leptin sensitivity. 

2. No, IF does not magically lead to fat loss. You still need a deficit. There are some theories that fasted training may help you mobilize stubborn fat more easily thanks to increase in catecholamines with fasted training (adrenaline/noradrenaline) which would have a similar effect to take clenbuterol/Ephedra. 

3. I believe the health benefit is there even in a caloric maintenance or surplus. 


Personally, i find IF more convenient. I have more energy and focus in the mornings while fasted for work/productivity, it also lets me enjoy bigger and tastier meals and improves appetite control. I have been doing IF for about 10 years, way before it was popular or known in the mainstream, so i have a lot of experience with it.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo I'm training for strength/explosivity type of trainings.
> Creatine works really really well for that BUT it increase my anxiety so bad unfortunately and make me irritable/in a bad mood so everytime I need to stop early.
> 
> Orals steroids make me feel like shit and are not healthy.
> I'm on 200mg test P right now, and thinking of upping it to 400mg for 12 weeks (for my strength goals).
> 
> Would increasing my test from 200 to 400mg help much in term of training ?
> My diet will be a slow lean bulk , starting in 2 weeks.


I believe you would see a benefit in that kind of training by using 400 mg, as long as nutrition and recovery are locked in and you are doing progressive overload.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Hi @ElChapo I'm currently running 300mg test e on lean bulk, I'm splitting the dose 0.5ml Sunday 0.5ml Wednesday. I'm starting to get high e2 sides. If I was to add in adex at 0.25mg when would be the best time to implement it? Shall I split it 0.25 in half again and use a tiny bit after each jab or use the 0.25 after one of the jabs?
> 
> I only need 0.5mg adex on 600 test that's how I figured 0.25mg on 300 test, just confused when to implement it when jabbing twice a week, as I normally jab once a week. I'm trying the twice a week at the moment though so unsure when to dose ai correcrly
> 
> Thanks!


That's how i would do it myself. (split tab and take with injections twice weekly). Once weekly also works though.


----------



## Gymrat12

What is your opinion about using HCG with TRT? 
Do people who use HCG have higher chance to conceive in the future than people who just used it when they decided to conceive?


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo 
Does taking high dose of Zinc dangerous ?
I'm taking 4x 50mg pills , 1 each 6 hours , I have no side effects and I do take this to counteract the high prolactin from SSRI.
I used to take P-5-P but it does increase my progesterone levels (E2 sensitivity in nipples-> worse gyno symptoms). 

Zinc seems to help , but I know it's quite a high dose and maybe it could cause some problems later on


----------



## Rob27

Hi @ElChapo what's your thoughts on foreseeable daily use of taladafil, Say 2.5mg/5mg daily for heart,artery and prostate health? 

Thanks.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> What is your opinion about using HCG with TRT?
> Do people who use HCG have higher chance to conceive in the future than people who just used it when they decided to conceive?


In theory yes. If you care about fertility, HCG may be a good idea. Some think that there is some benefit to libido and wellbeing, but other people get side effects from HCG. Trial and error.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> Does taking high dose of Zinc dangerous ?
> I'm taking 4x 50mg pills , 1 each 6 hours , I have no side effects and I do take this to counteract the high prolactin from SSRI.
> I used to take P-5-P but it does increase my progesterone levels (E2 sensitivity in nipples-> worse gyno symptoms).
> 
> Zinc seems to help , but I know it's quite a high dose and maybe it could cause some problems later on



That's a really bad idea. Yes, it can cause problems. I would stop immediately.


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> Hi @ElChapo what's your thoughts on foreseeable daily use of taladafil, Say 2.5mg/5mg daily for heart,artery and prostate health?
> 
> Thanks.


We don't really know the longterm effects and some guys get side effects. It may have a protective effect against heart disease.


----------



## Jjones

@ElChapo 

I have chronic low hemoglobin that averages around 70 the normal level is around 120, I'm currently at 91

8 weeks ago I got back on low dose test cypionate at 100mg per week for couple of weeks and now at 150mg along with EQ at 300mg per week both are split dose

Now I know to most they're low doses but my main reason for using steroids is to raise haemoglobin, I was using injectable dbol too but stopped this week and added the sarm lgd with test and EQ because it was around

Iv read 16 weeks is max for EQ cycle but that's usually at around 500mg , if I stay at 300mg or 250mg can I 'cruise' like a trt test dose ? I'm just thinking to keep my hemoglobin as high as possible, yes I know about raised hematocrit but not too worried just yet


----------



## Rob27

ElChapo said:


> We don't really know the longterm effects and some guys get side effects. It may have a protective effect against heart disease.


I read the benefits regarding heart disease and BP, and psa benefit, but can't find any research apart from your usual side effects of the Cialis.

If it was given as a heart disease and BP med to take daily surely it must be safe for daily long term use? What's your thoughts, is it worth adding in lowest of 2.5 dose daily for the foreseeable beneficial?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Jjones said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> I have chronic low hemoglobin that averages around 70 the normal level is around 120, I'm currently at 91
> 
> 8 weeks ago I got back on low dose test cypionate at 100mg per week for couple of weeks and now at 150mg along with EQ at 300mg per week both are split dose
> 
> Now I know to most they're low doses but my main reason for using steroids is to raise haemoglobin, I was using injectable dbol too but stopped this week and added the sarm lgd with test and EQ because it was around
> 
> Iv read 16 weeks is max for EQ cycle but that's usually at around 500mg , if I stay at 300mg or 250mg can I 'cruise' like a trt test dose ? I'm just thinking to keep my hemoglobin as high as possible, yes I know about raised hematocrit but not too worried just yet


What is the unit of measurement? Blood cell turnover is around 12 weeks in most humans, that's when you will see the biggest difference. Once you stop the cycle, the hemoglobin will likely stay pretty elevated. Do you do a lot of cardio? Do you eat vegan or vegetarian ?


----------



## ElChapo

Rob27 said:


> I read the benefits regarding heart disease and BP, and psa benefit, but can't find any research apart from your usual side effects of the Cialis.
> 
> If it was given as a heart disease and BP med to take daily surely it must be safe for daily long term use? What's your thoughts, is it worth adding in lowest of 2.5 dose daily for the foreseeable beneficial?
> 
> Thanks


 Common sides are stuffy nose, headaches, vision changes, some people get impaired mood/brain fog. I have found that 2.5 mg daily or EOD is enough for all the effects.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Does Raloxifene , or/and creatine increase red blood cell/hematocrit levels?

Also , i feel really strong/good on 18/54 rbc/hematocrit atm but i get the blurry vision and some kind of palpitation. Should i donate blood? 
It bothers me because everytime i donate blood, my ferritin gets really low even with iron supplementation, and also i get weaker for weeks and i do train for strenth so it puts me backwards everytime.
This year i was at 16/46 rbc/hematocrit but since i started ralox/creatine , 3 months ago , my levels increased.


----------



## Spaniel

@ElChapo Can taking HGH have any effect on your eyesight. Improve vision or make it worse?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Does Raloxifene , or/and creatine increase red blood cell/hematocrit levels?
> 
> Also , i feel really strong/good on 18/54 rbc/hematocrit atm but i get the blurry vision and some kind of palpitation. Should i donate blood?
> It bothers me because everytime i donate blood, my ferritin gets really low even with iron supplementation, and also i get weaker for weeks and i do train for strenth so it puts me backwards everytime.
> This year i was at 16/46 rbc/hematocrit but since i started ralox/creatine , 3 months ago , my levels increased.


It should not. There is no mechanism of action that i could see doing that.


Generally, i recommend staying under 52% HCT because it's "most natural" and it's where you don't see symptoms. Some will say "but people living at elevation get high HCT" sure but the physiology behind that is different that someone getting erythrocytosis (high rbc/hct) from androgens. Low ferritin/iron is no good for you either. It's best to identify the cause of the high HCT, sometimes increasing frequency of injections or lowering dose is the solution, other times, men have sleep apnea and don't know it and fixing that will also solve the issue.


----------



## ElChapo

Spaniel said:


> @ElChapo Can taking HGH have any effect on your eyesight. Improve vision or make it worse?


Not that i know of, but there are LH receptors all over the body and their function are still a mystery to us, so it's not impossible.


Here is one example: Elimination of Signaling by the Luteinizing Hormone Receptor Reduces Ocular VEGF and Retinal Vascularization during Mouse Eye Development - PubMed ( In english: They found LH receptors in mouse eye cells which i'm sure is the same in humans. LH receptors are activated by HCG as well)


----------



## Pancake'

Good to see you posting elchapo, I hope you’re well, quick one for you, how negatively does low caloric intakes impact joint/tendon health?


----------



## aaron118

@ElChapo hope you're doing well. What are your thoughts on primo? Sorry if you've been asked before in the thread, couldn't remember seeing anything.


----------



## Gymrat12

ElChapo said:


> Not that i know of, but there are LH receptors all over the body and their function are still a mystery to us, so it's not impossible.
> 
> 
> Here is one example: Elimination of Signaling by the Luteinizing Hormone Receptor Reduces Ocular VEGF and Retinal Vascularization during Mouse Eye Development - PubMed ( In english: They found LH receptors in mouse eye cells which i'm sure is the same in humans. LH receptors are activated by HCG as well)


I have read in an article once that LH affects penile size I didn't feel that makes any sense, as I know it only stimulates the Leydig cells in the Testes.
Do you think that any of the sexual functions - Erection, libido, lasting in sex- can be affected by the absence of LH during TRT?


----------



## Baka

Gymrat12 said:


> I have read in an article once that LH affects penile size I didn't feel that makes any sense, as I know it only stimulates the Leydig cells in the Testes.
> Do you think that any of the sexual functions - Erection, libido, lasting in sex- can be affected by the absence of LH during TRT?


i do think it does but we cant explain it perfectly yet.
I read some things about it , and libido isnt just test E2 , there are so many other things in play that we may not know


----------



## stewedw

Telemesatin at 40mg daily, woild this be sufficient to lower BP? 

Recent readings below on cycle 

147/73 hr 80
144/72 hr 80
146/71 hr 80
145/74 hr 80 

Off cycle is 
129/61 hr 70
131/61 hr 73
129/55 hr 70
126/53 hr 74


----------



## SoberHans

Hi El Chapo, would really appreciate your advice. 
On TRT and I've just had my bloods done and everything was fine except for my cholesterol was at the bottom of the normal range for good cholesterol and at the top of the normal range for bad. What do you recommend I do to improve these?
I will increase cardio and will plant sterols help?
Also my Free Thyroxine is just below the normal range (11.7), should I worry about this?
Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> Good to see you posting elchapo, I hope you’re well, quick one for you, how negatively does low caloric intakes impact joint/tendon health?


Not really at all, but if you are training a lot and not providing the nutrients for recovery and if that is affecting your performance, the risk of injury may be higher.


----------



## ElChapo

aaron118 said:


> @ElChapo hope you're doing well. What are your thoughts on primo? Sorry if you've been asked before in the thread, couldn't remember seeing anything.



Overrated/overpriced for what you get from what i have seen in people. I have not used it myself though.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> I have read in an article once that LH affects penile size I didn't feel that makes any sense, as I know it only stimulates the Leydig cells in the Testes.
> Do you think that any of the sexual functions - Erection, libido, lasting in sex- can be affected by the absence of LH during TRT?


LH receptors are found all over the body and the receptor and its actions are still something of a mystery. Maybe it could affect penile size during puberty, but after puberty, penile growth is not technically possible with current technology. 



As for LH/HCG actions during TRT, that is still a controversial topic, some feel HCG/LH stimulation has some benefit to sexual performance and mood during TRT, whereas other feels HCG worsens their TRT experience.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Telemesatin at 40mg daily, woild this be sufficient to lower BP?
> 
> Recent readings below on cycle
> 
> 147/73 hr 80
> 144/72 hr 80
> 146/71 hr 80
> 145/74 hr 80
> 
> Off cycle is
> 129/61 hr 70
> 131/61 hr 73
> 129/55 hr 70
> 126/53 hr 74



I wouldnt stress over these levels, and your diastolic is already quite low off cycle, so taking a med might drop you too low and cause weakness/dizziness/and falls.


Do you do regular cardio? How lean are you? Cardio/getting lean should get you to optimal levels.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Hi El Chapo, would really appreciate your advice.
> On TRT and I've just had my bloods done and everything was fine except for my cholesterol was at the bottom of the normal range for good cholesterol and at the top of the normal range for bad. What do you recommend I do to improve these?
> I will increase cardio and will plant sterols help?
> Also my Free Thyroxine is just below the normal range (11.7), should I worry about this?
> Thanks


Was there only after TRT or always? Cholesterol is not the most important factor when it comes to heart disease prevention. The most important thing is regular cardiovascular exercise and not being obese/overweight, and controlling your blood pressure. Cholesterol is much less important than these 3 factors. 

We used to have much less heart disease, strokes, and heart attacks back in the day even though we never looked at cholesterol, ate bacon, eggs and butter. Nowadays, people are obsessed with cholesterol levels, are prescribed statins, and heart disease has never been more prevalent. Why? Because of the things that matter; Active lifestyle, not being overweight, and lower BP.

Are you overweight? Do you do cardio? Is there fat in your diet?


Do you have any hypothyroid symptoms? Fatigue, feeling cold easily, puffy face, constipation? Low mood? Sluggish thyroid can affect cholesterol numbers.


----------



## SoberHans

ElChapo said:


> Was there only after TRT or always? Cholesterol is not the most important factor when it comes to heart disease prevention. The most important thing is regular cardiovascular exercise and not being obese/overweight, and controlling your blood pressure. Cholesterol is much less important than these 3 factors.
> 
> We used to have much less heart disease, strokes, and heart attacks back in the day even though we never looked at cholesterol, ate bacon, eggs and butter. Nowadays, people are obsessed with cholesterol levels, are prescribed statins, and heart disease has never been more prevalent. Why? Because of the things that matter; Active lifestyle, not being overweight, and lower BP.
> 
> Are you overweight? Do you do cardio? Is there fat in your diet?
> 
> 
> Do you have any hypothyroid symptoms? Fatigue, feeling cold easily, puffy face, constipation? Low mood? Sluggish thyroid can affect cholesterol numbers.


Thank you for your reply, really appreciate it.

I'm around 17% bf at the minute, need to get to below 15%.

I do loads of walking but not much cardio that gets the heart rate up, have increased it lately though.

I do suffer with constipation quite often and I'm always tired but I am a really bad sleeper and wake up often during the night. My moods been better than usual lately. I'll go see the doctor to get it double checked.

Hope you and your family have a good Christmas.


----------



## Gymrat12

Hi @ElChapo 
I would like to ask you a little bit deep scientific question: To what extent do you think the health of the mother and father during fertilization and pregnancy affect the new born child in his later life?

I have read a study that indicates that the last child is usually shorter than his older brothers, and another study said that most successful men were usually the oldest among their brothers and the youngest were less likely to be successful.
All of that led me to ask myself a question: does aging and giving birth after several children reduce the quality of the fetus' environment in the womb?
Does the worsened hormonal balance of the mother due to aging may hinder the hormonal and brain development of the child in the future?

and if that was true, maybe women who use HCs are also impacting their future born children and men who have given birth with minimum quality sperms their children may not be as healthy and smart as children who were born from younger natural healthier couples?

I know you probably don't have sufficient evidence to substantiate any answer but I am just interested in your personal opinion.


----------



## Dute

Hi @ElChapo. I hope you're well. 
I keep getting sleep apnoea on a bulk, it disappears on a cut...what do you advise? A cpap machine so I can bulk up? or do I stay leaner? But then how do I grow while staying at a lowish bf? Dryer aas? I use test and deca usually. 
It appears no matter how slow I try and bulk up I end up with sleep apnoea after a month or two. I'm 6'1 and 230lbs, flat stomach with a bit of fat, but if I lose 5lbs I'll see my abs (in the right light)
Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!!
Thanks again


----------



## ReRaise

@ElChapo 


I’m getting a hair transplant next month but I’m not done with competitive bodybuilding. (Currently on week 12 cruise) 

Currently using:
1.25 mg finasteride m/w/f
Minoxidil
Nizoral x 5 per week

Will I have to give up using nandrolone while using finasteride? My usual offseason cycle would be 600 test/400 NPP but see lots of people saying to stay clear of nandrolone while on finasteride. Is this true or a myth?

Also, I have ru58841. Would you recommend that over finasteride? When I mix with liquid minox it’s unusable due to the scalp irritation but I know there’s a more scalp friendly carrier solution available if needed.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Thank you for your reply, really appreciate it.
> 
> I'm around 17% bf at the minute, need to get to below 15%.
> 
> I do loads of walking but not much cardio that gets the heart rate up, have increased it lately though.
> 
> I do suffer with constipation quite often and I'm always tired but I am a really bad sleeper and wake up often during the night. My moods been better than usual lately. I'll go see the doctor to get it double checked.
> 
> Hope you and your family have a good Christmas.


Glad to help, make sure to check for Free T4 AKA Free Thyroxine, TSH and Free T3.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> I would like to ask you a little bit deep scientific question: To what extent do you think the health of the mother and father during fertilization and pregnancy affect the new born child in his later life?
> 
> I have read a study that indicates that the last child is usually shorter than his older brothers, and another study said that most successful men were usually the oldest among their brothers and the youngest were less likely to be successful.
> All of that led me to ask myself a question: does aging and giving birth after several children reduce the quality of the fetus' environment in the womb?
> Does the worsened hormonal balance of the mother due to aging may hinder the hormonal and brain development of the child in the future?
> 
> and if that was true, maybe women who use HCs are also impacting their future born children and men who have given birth with minimum quality sperms their children may not be as healthy and smart as children who were born from younger natural healthier couples?
> 
> I know you probably don't have sufficient evidence to substantiate any answer but I am just interested in your personal opinion.


Yes, there are certain factors that affect these things. For example, after 35 years of age in women, each year that passes substantially increases the risk of genetic defects/down syndrome in the baby. Older eggs are more prone to issues. There is also the science of "epigenetics" which suggests that the diet/lifestyle of the mother/father can affect the baby. As for male sperm in aged males, i haven't seen any data about that suggesting a negative effect but i never really looked for it either. 


We also know that fetal estrogen/testosterone level can impact the personality, athletecism and even success/attractiveness of the baby for the rest of its life. That is another factor.


There is a lot of interesting research out there. In my opinion, most the important impact will happen after the baby is born in terms of environment and influence, but all these little things can definitely add up.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi @ElChapo. I hope you're well.
> I keep getting sleep apnoea on a bulk, it disappears on a cut...what do you advise? A cpap machine so I can bulk up? or do I stay leaner? But then how do I grow while staying at a lowish bf? Dryer aas? I use test and deca usually.
> It appears no matter how slow I try and bulk up I end up with sleep apnoea after a month or two. I'm 6'1 and 230lbs, flat stomach with a bit of fat, but if I lose 5lbs I'll see my abs (in the right light)
> Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!!
> Thanks again


This is very common and many men don't realize that oftentimes sleep apnea can be reversed by getting lean. ( As well as high hematocrit caused by apnea).


How fat do you get before it becomes a problem? If you can stay in the 9-12% or even 9-15% body fat range, that would be ideal and you will not have problems gaining lean tissue there. You can keep your calories at a moderate/low surplus like 250-300 and "lean bulk".


----------



## ElChapo

ReRaise said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 
> I’m getting a hair transplant next month but I’m not done with competitive bodybuilding. (Currently on week 12 cruise)
> 
> Currently using:
> 1.25 mg finasteride m/w/f
> Minoxidil
> Nizoral x 5 per week
> 
> Will I have to give up using nandrolone while using finasteride? My usual offseason cycle would be 600 test/400 NPP but see lots of people saying to stay clear of nandrolone while on finasteride. Is this true or a myth?
> 
> Also, I have ru58841. Would you recommend that over finasteride? When I mix with liquid minox it’s unusable due to the scalp irritation but I know there’s a more scalp friendly carrier solution available if needed.


I believe it's a myth, i don't see any compelling reason for this. My thinking would be that since taking finasteride drops your 5-alpha enzyme, your nandrolone would not convert to DHN, therefore being more androgenic in it's base form and leading to more hair issues. 

I always recommend any topical anti-androgen over finasteride as you know it has a history of causing systemic issues in men. The most effective way to stop/reverse hair loss is to start as early as possible. Once enough miniturization has set in, it can be impossible to see significant results. I would also suggest experimenting with some HGH as i have found that taking it leads to better results with lower dosages of AAS, so you may be able to drop the amount you need to see the same results.

Also remember, Finasteride just drops your DHT levels, but testosterone in its baseform and other androgens can still have an effect on your hair quality. Some men have experimented with topical estriol cream (E3 not E2 / estradiol), with results. Women tend to have the most intense/fast hair growth during pregnancy when estrogen and progesterone levels sky rocket, so there is potential to tap into that phenomenon with topical estrogens. 

I am also a strong believe in nizoral 2% shampoo as it can theoretically block all kinds of androgens at the hair follicle, but best results are seen after 6 months and with consistent useage.


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> This is very common and many men don't realize that oftentimes sleep apnea can be reversed by getting lean. ( As well as high hematocrit caused by apnea).
> 
> 
> How fat do you get before it becomes a problem? If you can stay in the 9-12% or even 9-15% body fat range, that would be ideal and you will not have problems gaining lean tissue there. You can keep your calories at a moderate/low surplus like 250-300 and "lean bulk".


Thanks @ElChapo, probably when I lose my abs I start to get very mild Apnea, mainly snoring. Perhaps over 17% at a guess is where apnea kicks in.
Are there aas that would worsen apnea? Would I be better on winstrol/var/ test prop for example? Rather than my typical deca and test e? So leaner drier rather than watery bulky gains. Or is it all diet related? I've started tracking my macros to take control of this issue.
Many thanks, have a great Christmas!


----------



## Theosis

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> Does taking high dose of Zinc dangerous ?
> I'm taking 4x 50mg pills , 1 each 6 hours , I have no side effects and I do take this to counteract the high prolactin from SSRI.
> I used to take P-5-P but it does increase my progesterone levels (E2 sensitivity in nipples-> worse gyno symptoms).
> 
> Zinc seems to help , but I know it's quite a high dose and maybe it could cause some problems later on


Do you mean 50mg elemental Zinc or total Zinc? 

If you mean 50mg total (15-20mg elemental) you're fine, take copper as well during the day to avoid issues. 

I've been taking Zinc plus cofactors for years (75mg elemental) plus loads of red meat. I haven't had a viral infection in over 13 years.


----------



## stewedw

Is the thread still alive?


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Thanks @ElChapo, probably when I lose my abs I start to get very mild Apnea, mainly snoring. Perhaps over 17% at a guess is where apnea kicks in.
> Are there aas that would worsen apnea? Would I be better on winstrol/var/ test prop for example? Rather than my typical deca and test e? So leaner drier rather than watery bulky gains. Or is it all diet related? I've started tracking my macros to take control of this issue.
> Many thanks, have a great Christmas!


I would say it's more a matter of AAS dose versus specific AAS in most cases, however even men on TRT are diagnosed with it after starting TRT and i know a few people who are sensitive to testosterone and experience a harder time breathing. Many guys who get high RBC/HCT are getting these issues due to sleep apnea.


I would guess that the dryer AAS would cause less issues with apnea but it's just a wild guess. I don't have the issue myself, so no personal experience. The one friend who gets it from TRT dose testosterone had it greatly improve by switching to propionate. 


I would say the most important factor is overall weight followed by fat/adipose tissue. I have seen people reverse it by getting very lean and improving cardiovascular/respiratory fitness.


And Merry Belated Christmas, thank you


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Is the thread still alive?


I check in once in a while. Always glad to help. I also get PMs.


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo 

Hi mate. 

A female friend of mine has lost 18kg in four months. She has a pt and has Ben's training well eating well eat. 




For the last five weeks though she has no appetite. She had been hitting personal best lifts and overcame depression, is med free and on the path she wants but when I took her for dinner recently she had four or five forms of food and said she was full. She wasn't full, she said she just didn't feel hungry. 

She feels quite sickly at times, almost salivating which puts her off her food. 

I'm aware it could be in her head, but what do you think this is and what would you suggest as a process of elimination to try and get her hungry, eating or at least enjoying food again? Thanks. 

Mon aas uauer, no meds, no health issues, rarely smokes or drinks. 

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Is she taking any supplements, AAS or fat burners? Has she been in caloric deficit in the last four months? Does she eat breakfast or fast in the morning? Eating multiple meals a day bodybuilding style very few hours?


----------



## Jonk891

@ElChapo Is there anything you would recommend that may help with tendon and bone healing. I have 2 injuries on my hand one tendon related and the other a fracture of the metacarpal. The tendon issue has been ongoing for 4 months but made worse from training for a fight and I had a fracture of the metacarpal just before the fight but still fought. I am now resting my hand but want to try and recover faster. I'm using cissus, vitamin D3 with k2 and ipamorelin at the moment, is there anything else that could help. Thanks


----------



## Gymrat12

Hi @ElChapo I am glad you are back. I would like to ask you a question regarding my joints health.

I have joint pain in two areas one in my upper back usually comes out the day after doing a deadlift, and one in my left knee because I have hyperextended knee since I was a child.
In the past my hyperextended knee didn't cause any pain, but now significant pain started to appear. Whenever I want to do squat in the beginning of the exercise I experience a considerable pain and after warming up with no weights for 15 to 20 Minutes the pain fades away.

My question is: Should I be worried about that? Should I stop lifting heavyweights? Should I exam them or scan them to make sure that no serious injuries coming in the way? What scan should be taken for these cases?
Thank you very much for helping us.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Is she taking any supplements, AAS or fat burners? Has she been in caloric deficit in the last four months? Does she eat breakfast or fast in the morning? Eating multiple meals a day bodybuilding style very few hours?



She's been in a deficit for 3-4 months, has a pt who has been giving her a diet and weights/cardio programme to follow. No drugs, supps etc are being used at the moment. 

No prescription meds either.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> @ElChapo Is there anything you would recommend that may help with tendon and bone healing. I have 2 injuries on my hand one tendon related and the other a fracture of the metacarpal. The tendon issue has been ongoing for 4 months but made worse from training for a fight and I had a fracture of the metacarpal just before the fight but still fought. I am now resting my hand but want to try and recover faster. I'm using cissus, vitamin D3 with k2 and ipamorelin at the moment, is there anything else that could help. Thanks



Have you tried at least 4 weeks of complete rest? This is usually the #1 thing to heal injuries. If you've nee training through it, this can make it a more permanent/chronic problem.

HGH is effective 3-6 IU and anecdotally, NPP or deca 200-300 mg.


Meriva curcumin 1000-2000 mg with food will lower inflammation and pain..

1000 mg vitamin C+ 50 mg zing (This stack really works for injuries and wounds, to improve healing time)

Complete rest for min 4 weeks is going to be the most important factor. 


Ipamorelin on its own is usually not very effective at raising GH and IGF. Cissus might have a benefit though


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> She's been in a deficit for 3-4 months, has a pt who has been giving her a diet and weights/cardio programme to follow. No drugs, supps etc are being used at the moment.
> 
> No prescription meds either.



It may be psycological ; fear of regaining weight. If its physical loss of appetite, zinc supplementation has been proven to work.

I would lean more towards psycological because after months of dieting, leptin levels drop and appetite naturally increases.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> Hi @ElChapo I am glad you are back. I would like to ask you a question regarding my joints health.
> 
> I have joint pain in two areas one in my upper back usually comes out the day after doing a deadlift, and one in my left knee because I have hyperextended knee since I was a child.
> In the past my hyperextended knee didn't cause any pain, but now significant pain started to appear. Whenever I want to do squat in the beginning of the exercise I experience a considerable pain and after warming up with no weights for 15 to 20 Minutes the pain fades away.
> 
> My question is: Should I be worried about that? Should I stop lifting heavyweights? Should I exam them or scan them to make sure that no serious injuries coming in the way? What scan should be taken for these cases?
> Thank you very much for helping us.


Ideally, go to sports medicine doc or an ortho doc with experience in athletes (not old people, they will just tell you to stop lifting). 

In the meantime, make sure to warm up well. Do some light cardio before you lift and do a squat stretch (with no weight, squat down and hold it, repeat)

You can take meriva curcumin 1000 mg, cissus, and glucosamine+chondroitin. on the supplement side.

The upperback pain on deadlift, make sure you are not round at the top of your back, make sure you arent hyperextending your back (humping the air motion that many do when deadlifting)

For the knee pain, make sure you are squatting to at least parallel or below, this will actually protect your knees. When you dont go low enough, this can actually cause more knee issues.


----------



## Dute

Hi again @ElChapo ,

Thank you for the great advice! 
I have a question about anavar, I've been told it's processed by the kidneys. 
Would it put a higher amount of stress on healthy kidneys? In comparison to say Winstrol? 

Also... I appreciate orals tend to affect blood markers worse than injectables but would you say there's a sensible level for a non pro to use? Or is it dependent on the individual. I find they build a huge amount of mass very efficiently but have mostly stayed away from using them, I would like to add winstrol. Var or anadrol into my routine at low doses (winny at say 25mg to 50mg) for perhaps 6 weeks on 10 weeks off.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi again @ElChapo ,
> 
> Thank you for the great advice!
> I have a question about anavar, I've been told it's processed by the kidneys.
> Would it put a higher amount of stress on healthy kidneys? In comparison to say Winstrol?
> 
> Also... I appreciate orals tend to affect blood markers worse than injectables but would you say there's a sensible level for a non pro to use? Or is it dependent on the individual. I find they build a huge amount of mass very efficiently but have mostly stayed away from using them, I would like to add winstrol. Var or anadrol into my routine at low doses (winny at say 25mg to 50mg) for perhaps 6 weeks on 10 weeks off.


No, your kidneys will be fine. Kidney damage from AAS use comes from chronic high blood pressure.


In vitro studies show kidney toxicity from androgens, however, this does not apply to real life. In vitro studies AKA test tube/cells is completely different from what you see in a living breathing animal.


Remember this, blood markers are NOT the primary danger in using AAS . That is the hypertension and cardiac remodeling, things that can happen over a long period of time and you won't see in blood work. (although elevated BP at very high levels can cause higher risk of stroke/heart attack).


Your protocol sounds completely fine and you can take TUDCA for extra liver protection.


----------



## AGP

@ElChapo

15% body fat cutting to 8/9%

Week 1-12

Pharma sust 250 pw
Tren E 300 pw
Var 50 pd 
Clen:T3 120mcg pd
Yohbabine 1 tablet a day. 

With the right diet and training + sleep, is it possible to put on 2/4lbs of lean tissue while cutting to under 10% in 12 weeks. Or don’t you agree that Tren has this magic ability?


----------



## Milkdrunkenyeti

Hi @ElChapo 

Thank you for this thread. Given me some invaluable knowledge for interpreting my bloods / making compound & ancillary decisions/dosage frequency.

Just wanted to know your opinion on pharmaceutical leverage for optimising fasted cardio when assisted?

Current stack would be low dose T3 with ECA/Clen.

GDA’s/L-Carnitine L-Tartrate/Yohimbine?

No interest in GH / Peptides

Thx


----------



## stewedw

@ElChapo

Hi mate, I find as I get older (41 this may) that I don't react or tolerate things that I used to.

For example I ran test tren mast long esters 11 years ago 400 mg each after I had cut down to 9.7% bodyfat and 85kg (I'm six foot 3) I ran that cycle without issues for 16 weeks then dropped to test only at 500mg for ten more and then trt for 9 months after. Libido was great, body comp was great and a year after I started I was 12% bodyfat and 102kg.

Thes days even 75mg of test/tren/mast sends me into a state of insomnia, sweats and paranoia. Is there a reason for this?

Side bar. I recently started (4 weeks ago) test 600 per week npp 300mg per week, 20mg Prov per day and 12.5mg aromasin m w f - libido average and ability to maintain erectile function was poor so I've dropped the npp and I'm going to run 750-1000mg test with 50mg winny daily for 10 weeks. Is 25mg aromasin Monday and Thursday enough, or over kill? Or what would be better, test plus "x" as a med if npp and tren aren't an option

Many thanks


----------



## Jonk891

ElChapo said:


> Have you tried at least 4 weeks of complete rest? This is usually the #1 thing to heal injuries. If you've nee training through it, this can make it a more permanent/chronic problem.
> 
> HGH is effective 3-6 IU and anecdotally, NPP or deca 200-300 mg.
> 
> 
> Meriva curcumin 1000-2000 mg with food will lower inflammation and pain..
> 
> 1000 mg vitamin C+ 50 mg zing (This stack really works for injuries and wounds, to improve healing time)
> 
> Complete rest for min 4 weeks is going to be the most important factor.
> 
> 
> Ipamorelin on its own is usually not very effective at raising GH and IGF. Cissus might have a benefit though


Thanks for the reply. I did train with the injury for around 4 months, although still training i haven't used that hand to hit with for the last 3 weeks and it's already improving. I got a MRI scan and no structural damage was found. I have got another fight 3 weeks from now so hoping it will be fine to use for the fight. 

I'll give the supplements a try to see if they help with the pain.


----------



## Lawrence 82

@ElChapo Is it safe to give a female caber for libido ? and if so any side effects? could it be run indefinately? dosage ,duration?

or is it a massive no no like giving her test lol..

2nd .. question is T3 ok for women to take if they want to concieve again ?

she will not be on these drugs when we actually try for another baby my i add..


many thanks in advance


----------



## Dute

@ElChapo, thanks so much for your help so far.
I was hoping you could help me figure out where to go next..I've been bulking the last 4weeks (after a cut down to probably 13% bf, not low enough probably!)
I've taken this week off as I caught a bad cold, I've dropped down to maintenance calories kept the injectables in but dropped the Winnie (25mg ed). Oils are test sust 350mg mast 250mg deca 200mg weekly.
I feel as bloated as a pregnant woman, out of breath and my stomach is distended. The cold is pretty much over now so do you know what this could be related too?? Is it the water coming back on after dropping Winnie? Or am I just a fat heffer? I can't figure out why I suddenly feel so bloated. Diet is the same bar dropping to maintenance. Is it because I'm not training? 
I basically need to decide whether to carry on bulking or actually if it's fat gain and I need to cut.
Many thanks in advance Ec


----------



## ElChapo

AGP said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> 15% body fat cutting to 8/9%
> 
> Week 1-12
> 
> Pharma sust 250 pw
> Tren E 300 pw
> Var 50 pd
> Clen:T3 120mcg pd
> Yohbabine 1 tablet a day.
> 
> With the right diet and training + sleep, is it possible to put on 2/4lbs of lean tissue while cutting to under 10% in 12 weeks. Or don’t you agree that Tren has this magic ability?


Good question, that depends on your experience level, your training, diet and genetics.

The most common thing that leads to recomp is being beginner/intermediate lifter or muscle memory after a lay off.

I believe 2-4 lbs of lean mass is more than reasonable and possible on a cut with AAS and the right training nutrition. 

Focus on progressive overload ;

(Increase your weight and reps on all your lifts as often as possible without sacrificing form; this is the main stimulus that tells your body to grow muscle bigger and stronger)

Have you used clen or yohimbine before? They are VERY potent stimulants and combining them is risky if you dont have experience with them or are sensitive to stimulants. Especially at 120 mcg Clen. What is the yohimbine dose in one capsule of what you have, 5 mg?


----------



## ElChapo

Milkdrunkenyeti said:


> Hi @ElChapo
> 
> Thank you for this thread. Given me some invaluable knowledge for interpreting my bloods / making compound & ancillary decisions/dosage frequency.
> 
> Just wanted to know your opinion on pharmaceutical leverage for optimising fasted cardio when assisted?
> 
> Current stack would be low dose T3 with ECA/Clen.
> 
> GDA’s/L-Carnitine L-Tartrate/Yohimbine?
> 
> No interest in GH / Peptides
> 
> Thx


Yohimbine works perfect, and if you can tolerate the ECY stack with fasted cardio, you will TORCH fat.


Stick to low intensity cardio; 130-150 BPM. 30-60 minutes. Stationary bike is my favorite as its very low impact and will not affect your recovery or lifting as much as running. You can also read or watch TV while doing it.


You won't need anything but ECY, caloric deficit, cardio and patience to get as shredded as you want. Make sure to lift with each muscle group at least once weekly to maintain muscle and prevent muscle loss.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Hi mate, I find as I get older (41 this may) that I don't react or tolerate things that I used to.
> 
> For example I ran test tren mast long esters 11 years ago 400 mg each after I had cut down to 9.7% bodyfat and 85kg (I'm six foot 3) I ran that cycle without issues for 16 weeks then dropped to test only at 500mg for ten more and then trt for 9 months after. Libido was great, body comp was great and a year after I started I was 12% bodyfat and 102kg.
> 
> Thes days even 75mg of test/tren/mast sends me into a state of insomnia, sweats and paranoia. Is there a reason for this?
> 
> Side bar. I recently started (4 weeks ago) test 600 per week npp 300mg per week, 20mg Prov per day and 12.5mg aromasin m w f - libido average and ability to maintain erectile function was poor so I've dropped the npp and I'm going to run 750-1000mg test with 50mg winny daily for 10 weeks. Is 25mg aromasin Monday and Thursday enough, or over kill? Or what would be better, test plus "x" as a med if npp and tren aren't an option
> 
> Many thanks


Your body does change as you age, including the way your brain is wired. Its also possible you could have less side effects if you were using the previous higher dosage of the compounds (less likely).


The aromasin dose can work, but its a very individual thing. You might also need one more 25 mg dose per week, its extremely variable between person to person. You can go by feel or blood work. Some people feel fine letting E go as high as it wants without issues to libido/erections, but again, its a very individual thing.


----------



## ElChapo

Jonk891 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I did train with the injury for around 4 months, although still training i haven't used that hand to hit with for the last 3 weeks and it's already improving. I got a MRI scan and no structural damage was found. I have got another fight 3 weeks from now so hoping it will be fine to use for the fight.
> 
> I'll give the supplements a try to see if they help with the pain.


That's a good sign, complete rest should finish healing it.


----------



## ElChapo

Lawrence 82 said:


> @ElChapo Is it safe to give a female caber for libido ? and if so any side effects? could it be run indefinately? dosage ,duration?
> 
> or is it a massive no no like giving her test lol..
> 
> 2nd .. question is T3 ok for women to take if they want to concieve again ?
> 
> she will not be on these drugs when we actually try for another baby my i add..
> 
> 
> many thanks in advance



In my clinical experience, its much better to find and address the cause of the low libido than to use a bandaid. Caber may cause a dependence effect and long term may rewire the brain.

Most common physical causes of low libido in women that i see are SSRI/psych med usage, birth control use or history of birth control use, low carb/keto diets, prolonged caloric deficits/diets/overtraining.

Giving a woman testosterone is not a bad thing at all. Women need testosterone for optimal physical and mental wellbeing like we need estradiol. Testosterone replacement is one effective way of increasing female libido and side effects are uncommon when used properly. They need about 10% of the level of T that we do.


T3 is a garbage cutter on its own. Better of using Yohimbine (which is also excellent for libido).


You can trial 5-10 mg yohimbine for cutting and libido, but i would look for the source of the libido issues and fix that as long term solution.


Test her testosterone and estradiol on day 14 of her cycle, progesterone day 21. Test Ferrtin/free T4/Free T3/TSH/vitamin D at any time of the month.

*Look through my low libido causes list and see if anything there applies to her.*


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> @ElChapo, thanks so much for your help so far.
> I was hoping you could help me figure out where to go next..I've been bulking the last 4weeks (after a cut down to probably 13% bf, not low enough probably!)
> I've taken this week off as I caught a bad cold, I've dropped down to maintenance calories kept the injectables in but dropped the Winnie (25mg ed). Oils are test sust 350mg mast 250mg deca 200mg weekly.
> I feel as bloated as a pregnant woman, out of breath and my stomach is distended. The cold is pretty much over now so do you know what this could be related too?? Is it the water coming back on after dropping Winnie? Or am I just a fat heffer? I can't figure out why I suddenly feel so bloated. Diet is the same bar dropping to maintenance. Is it because I'm not training?
> I basically need to decide whether to carry on bulking or actually if it's fat gain and I need to cut.
> Many thanks in advance Ec


Winstrol is excellent at keeping bloat down. If you have been less active, you may also hold more water.

Your next step depends on your priorities; Do you really want more muscle/strength or aesthetics? 

If it were me, i would cut down to 9% and then lean bulk back to 12-13% and enjoy the process and looking/feeling good year round.


----------



## Tricky

@ElChapo i finished 3 weeks 200mg dnp yesterday and im down 15lbs. Thanks suspect in the next few days another few lbs of water will come off. I’m drinking 5g vit c daily with 5 litres of water. Also on 200mg test 

post dnp should I look at adding t3 as my natural production will be reduced from diet and dnp or should I avoid t3 and continue to just diet with the 200mg test?

I’m also considering 60-80mcg possibly 75mcg if I get 25mcg tabs of clen for 6-8 weeks consistent while cutting but again should I add t3 with this or just cut with test alone for a while post dnp.

I have 14 x 200mg caps of dnp left which will be used around June at the end of the cut


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> @ElChapo i finished 3 weeks 200mg dnp yesterday and im down 15lbs. Thanks suspect in the next few days another few lbs of water will come off. I’m drinking 5g vit c daily with 5 litres of water. Also on 200mg test
> 
> post dnp should I look at adding t3 as my natural production will be reduced from diet and dnp or should I avoid t3 and continue to just diet with the 200mg test?
> 
> I’m also considering 60-80mcg possibly 75mcg if I get 25mcg tabs of clen for 6-8 weeks consistent while cutting but again should I add t3 with this or just cut with test alone for a while post dnp.
> 
> I have 14 x 200mg caps of dnp left which will be used around June at the end of the cut


T3 is a shitty fat burner, it will make you flatter, increase appetite and carb cravings. Adding a tiny bit can help with calorie deficit induced fatigue though (12-25 mcg daily) but i wouldnt add it myself.

Clen is one of the worst fat burners as well. High risk of side effects and proven to be cardio toxic. Also depletes taurine levels. 


Yohimbine or ephedrine is much better for fat loss with some caffeine. You can usually get them OTC as well. Make sure its yohimbine HCL and not "yohimbe".


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> Winstrol is excellent at keeping bloat down. If you have been less active, you may also hold more water.
> 
> Your next step depends on your priorities; Do you really want more muscle/strength or aesthetics?
> 
> If it were me, i would cut down to 9% and then lean bulk back to 12-13% and enjoy the process and looking/feeling good year round.


Thanks @ElChapo , I'm going to take your advice and lean up 'leaner' this time. Blood pressure is remarkably different too!

How would a gradual gain in muscle look on the scales? Sorry for the stupid question. I'm 230lbs. Let's say I cut to 210lbs...then what? Gain to 220lbs? Then rinse and repeat but adding a few lbs each cycle? I've always just bulked for months and months and never really tried to keep within a fat percent bracket while adding weight. Basically I still want to increase my weight yearly but within the bracket of 9% to say 17% max. I hope the question makes some sense.

I'm also on raloxifene due to some old gyno popping up on this cycle, I'm assuming the deca.. test doesn't usually affect me even at 800mg. I've noticed you mention igf1 lowers with raloxifene...would it be logical to increase hgh to combat this to retain more muscle? I'm only on 4units twice weekly. Would increasing it to 5 times a week help in your opinion? Or am I just pi**ing in the wind?

Thanks in advance! You've been really helpful mate.


----------



## Pancake'

@ElChapo every time I perform pull ups I notice afterwards I have some trigger fingers occurring, stiff finger tips, lock up and click. Seems quiet a thing amongst crossfitters kipping, I do not kip. What would you suggest to this?


----------



## Lawrence 82

@ElChapo 

What's the max you think each of these compounds can be run for individually, or together ?
DNP
T3
Clen
Yohimbine

Think i have already read you have said DNP at 200mg for 8 weeks ?

unsure on others .

many thanks pal...


----------



## Tricky

Lawrence 82 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's the max you think each of these compounds can be run for individually, or together ?
> DNP
> T3
> Clen
> Yohimbine
> 
> Think i have already read you have said DNP at 200mg for 8 weeks ?
> 
> unsure on others .
> 
> many thanks pal...


Would be interested to see who runs dnp for 8 weeks and at what dose. It’s literally poision and I wouldn’t stay on for that long personally due to fears of any lasting damage. For DNP which I’ve plenty of experience I find anything less than 2 weeks is pointless due to it building up in the system. When I’m on and feeling crap already might as well see it through so I never throw the towel in before 2 weeks but at the same time I never go over 6 weeks. Usually it’s around 21-30 days I call it a day. Wait a few days let the water fall off and see where I’m at.

I stopped a DNP 200mg cycle for 3 weeks on Sunday there down 15 lbs and the water is starting to come off now I expect to finish around 18lbs down for the 3 week cycle. Looking back I should ofextended it to 30 days just to use up the dnp but I opted to keep some tablets for another short run as I wanted off to clear my system for a few weeks of the DNP.

interested in @ElChapo reply as DNP is a fantastic drug much safer and tolerable in my eyes than clen and far better results.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Thanks @ElChapo , I'm going to take your advice and lean up 'leaner' this time. Blood pressure is remarkably different too!
> 
> How would a gradual gain in muscle look on the scales? Sorry for the stupid question. I'm 230lbs. Let's say I cut to 210lbs...then what? Gain to 220lbs? Then rinse and repeat but adding a few lbs each cycle? I've always just bulked for months and months and never really tried to keep within a fat percent bracket while adding weight. Basically I still want to increase my weight yearly but within the bracket of 9% to say 17% max. I hope the question makes some sense.
> 
> I'm also on raloxifene due to some old gyno popping up on this cycle, I'm assuming the deca.. test doesn't usually affect me even at 800mg. I've noticed you mention igf1 lowers with raloxifene...would it be logical to increase hgh to combat this to retain more muscle? I'm only on 4units twice weekly. Would increasing it to 5 times a week help in your opinion? Or am I just pi**ing in the wind?
> 
> Thanks in advance! You've been really helpful mate.



Many ways to approach this. You can cut down to lean, and do a lean bulk, your surplus would be small like 250-300. You could also do a straight up 500 cal surplus. It goes exactly the same way as a regular cut and bulk. You would bulk until you start to notice you are looking softer/less defined, then cut You could go by feel/visual or tracks weight. Its entirely up to you.

I would go for a minimum of 14 IU total per week GH if using it. (around 2 IU daily or 5 IU MWF) Just note that GH can flare up gyno. Myself, i would finish the deca and then hit the gyno. Treating gyno while on deca/tren is iffy at best.


----------



## ElChapo

Pancake' said:


> @ElChapo every time I perform pull ups I notice afterwards I have some trigger fingers occurring, stiff finger tips, lock up and click. Seems quiet a thing amongst crossfitters kipping, I do not kip. What would you suggest to this?


Sounds like muscle spasm, you could try squeezing less with your grip. Make sure you are hydrated and getting enough electrolytes (potassium, magnesium, zinc, calcium, salt)


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> Many ways to approach this. You can cut down to lean, and do a lean bulk, your surplus would be small like 250-300. You could also do a straight up 500 cal surplus. It goes exactly the same way as a regular cut and bulk. You would bulk until you start to notice you are looking softer/less defined, then cut You could go by feel/visual or tracks weight. Its entirely up to you.
> 
> I would go for a minimum of 14 IU total per week GH if using it. (around 2 IU daily or 5 IU MWF) Just note that GH can flare up gyno. Myself, i would finish the deca and then hit the gyno. Treating gyno while on deca/tren is iffy at best.


You're a star mate! Thanks so much!!


----------



## ElChapo

Lawrence 82 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> What's the max you think each of these compounds can be run for individually, or together ?
> DNP
> T3
> Clen
> Yohimbine
> 
> Think i have already read you have said DNP at 200mg for 8 weeks ?
> 
> unsure on others .
> 
> many thanks pal...


12 weeks max. Year round is a recipe for heart issues in the long run. I would cycle off after 12 weeks and give your heart and brain a break. Stimulant dependence is a real thing and you can crash hard



You should be able to shred or lose significant amounts of fat with 8-12 weeks of cardio, deficit and fat burners.


I would replace the clen with ephedrine and keep the T3 at 25 mcg or less. 


Dont mix clen, ephedrine or yohimbine with each other unless you have extensive experience with these compounds or a very high tolerance for stimulants.

The DNP i wouldnt mind pushing to 12 weeks at 200 mg but by then if you arent unserious about your cut, you should be pretty lean unless you are tackling obesity which is understandable.


----------



## ElChapo

Tricky said:


> Would be interested to see who runs dnp for 8 weeks and at what dose. It’s literally poision and I wouldn’t stay on for that long personally due to fears of any lasting damage. For DNP which I’ve plenty of experience I find anything less than 2 weeks is pointless due to it building up in the system. When I’m on and feeling crap already might as well see it through so I never throw the towel in before 2 weeks but at the same time I never go over 6 weeks. Usually it’s around 21-30 days I call it a day. Wait a few days let the water fall off and see where I’m at.
> 
> I stopped a DNP 200mg cycle for 3 weeks on Sunday there down 15 lbs and the water is starting to come off now I expect to finish around 18lbs down for the 3 week cycle. Looking back I should ofextended it to 30 days just to use up the dnp but I opted to keep some tablets for another short run as I wanted off to clear my system for a few weeks of the DNP.
> 
> interested in @ElChapo reply as DNP is a fantastic drug much safer and tolerable in my eyes than clen and far better results.



I would only see 12 weeks of DNP being nece


Dute said:


> You're a star mate! Thanks so much!!


Glad to help, and remember that progressive overload is not just the #1 way to stimulate muscle growth, but also a good way to know that your bulk is going well. If you are getting stronger or getting more reps than last week, then you know your surplus is working. Always push for that extra rep or add a bit of weight as often as you can without sacrificing form or safety.


----------



## Lawrence 82

ElChapo said:


> 12 weeks max. Year round is a recipe for heart issues in the long run. I would cycle off after 12 weeks and give your heart and brain a break. Stimulant dependence is a real thing and you can crash hard
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to shred or lose significant amounts of fat with 8-12 weeks of cardio, deficit and fat burners.
> 
> 
> I would replace the clen with ephedrine and keep the T3 at 25 mcg or less.
> 
> 
> Dont mix clen, ephedrine or yohimbine with each other unless you have extensive experience with these compounds or a very high tolerance for stimulants.
> 
> The DNP i wouldnt mind pushing to 12 weeks at 200 mg but by then if you arent unserious about your cut, you should be pretty lean unless you are tackling obesity which is understandable.


Why can’t clen and yohimbine be used together pal? 

I have both to hand , ephedrine over here is useless nowadays and never genuine! Not like the old ECA stacks of old 

Many thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Lawrence 82 said:


> Why can’t clen and yohimbine be used together pal?
> 
> I have both to hand , ephedrine over here is useless nowadays and never genuine! Not like the old ECA stacks of old
> 
> Many thanks


Very very potent combo of stimulants. Not good for the heart and risk of sides is very high combining the two. Panic attacks, hypertension, cardiac arrest. If the Yohimbine dose is kept to 5-10 mg and clen under 100 mcg ( i wouldn't go past 60-80 mcg daily if adding) yohimbine.


----------



## zariph

Heya @ElChapo ! I have a bunch of questions actually, maybe you can help me out on a few.

BPC 157 + tb500, will this help in healing musclestrain/muscletear, which dosage protocol do you recommend?
Lantus increases Igf-1, but does it increase it enough to actually have any benifit compared to fast acting insulin?
Stacking insulin + hgh, is it a good idea to do hgh then 15 min later do fast insulin? Will it help in increased Igf-1, or how would you run hgh+slin for offseason mass cycle?
If running SD or oxy preworkout, when will you recommend to dose it, also with or without fats?

Thanks!


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Since i started Primo at 300-400mg with 180mg test , my heart rate went up to 90-100 bpm at rest. tension is 13/7-14/8.
I'm also on zoloft , it could be a side effect. 

I was doing 20min cardio 4x a week but not LISS , mostly HIIT .
I changed 1 week ago to 30-35min of LISS on stairmaster to help decrease blood pressure and heart rate , is it enough ? 

I'm still on primo , been 14 weeks now and i'm on 150mg E0D , should i stop primo or it s not from it ?
RBC is high and HDL a little low , the rest is all normal.


----------



## Lawrence 82

@ElChapo any issue with taking 50mg winny, 50mg var and 500mg tudca on an empty stomach each morning ?

i train fasted in the mornings . Also bcaa clearly break a fast correct ?

Many thanks as always...


----------



## ElChapo

zariph said:


> Heya @ElChapo ! I have a bunch of questions actually, maybe you can help me out on a few.
> 
> BPC 157 + tb500, will this help in healing musclestrain/muscletear, which dosage protocol do you recommend?
> Lantus increases Igf-1, but does it increase it enough to actually have any benifit compared to fast acting insulin?
> Stacking insulin + hgh, is it a good idea to do hgh then 15 min later do fast insulin? Will it help in increased Igf-1, or how would you run hgh+slin for offseason mass cycle?
> If running SD or oxy preworkout, when will you recommend to dose it, also with or without fats?
> 
> Thanks!


Honestly, for muscle strain or tear, 2-4 weeks complete rest depending on severity does the trick. I don't really follow all the peptides and what not. HGH 3-6 IU, Vitamin C+Zinc, maintenance calories and 2-4 weeks complete rest works phenomenally. 

The HGH timing won't have a big effect, but you can take them together. I also don't dabble in HGH+insulin combo, so i would consult with a reputable coach or bodybuilder with a lot of experience with slin/GH combo. 

TIming orals doesn't have a significant effect. Remember, most of your gains happen during rest/recovery, not during training. That is when AAS are building up lean tissue.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Since i started Primo at 300-400mg with 180mg test , my heart rate went up to 90-100 bpm at rest. tension is 13/7-14/8.
> I'm also on zoloft , it could be a side effect.
> 
> I was doing 20min cardio 4x a week but not LISS , mostly HIIT .
> I changed 1 week ago to 30-35min of LISS on stairmaster to help decrease blood pressure and heart rate , is it enough ?
> 
> I'm still on primo , been 14 weeks now and i'm on 150mg E0D , should i stop primo or it s not from it ?
> RBC is high and HDL a little low , the rest is all normal.


30 mins liss x 4 per week should work.


What is your usual resting heart rate? How long was your planned cycle? Slightly elevated BP and heart rate will not usually be dangerous in the short term.


----------



## hondastu

@ElChapo What dose of ephedrine do you recommend for fat loss?


----------



## Baka

ElChapo said:


> 30 mins liss x 4 per week should work.
> 
> 
> What is your usual resting heart rate? How long was your planned cycle? Slightly elevated BP and heart rate will not usually be dangerous in the short term.


In the morning i'm at 70-75 bpm while still in bed , but during the day it get to 90-100 while on computer or eating or whatever.

I think before i started SSRI i was in the 70's all day and 80+ when really anxious

So i'm not sure if it's from SSRI or primo , i'm on primo since 15 weeks , will do a 20 week cycle but i lowered from 400mg to 300mg already, and using 180 test P with it.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo Primo being the safest AAS , it does lower my HDL and increase my LDL at 300-400mg , does it also raise by a lot the RBC production ? 
what about blood pressure/heart rate?


----------



## ElChapo

hondastu said:


> @ElChapo What dose of ephedrine do you recommend for fat loss?



I've always done fine with 20 mg once daily in the morning. Some people talk about x 3 daily but in my opinion, that's overkill. If you are really dragging ass, i could see you squeezing in one more dose around noon, that way you don't have negative effect on sleep. So 20 mg, 1-2 per day, avoiding afternoon/evening.


----------



## ElChapo

Lawrence 82 said:


> @ElChapo any issue with taking 50mg winny, 50mg var and 500mg tudca on an empty stomach each morning ?
> 
> i train fasted in the mornings . Also bcaa clearly break a fast correct ?
> 
> Many thanks as always...


"technically" They break a fast, but in real world application, you will still get all the benefits of fasting if you are only taking one dose, especially if you are working out, as you will start to "burn off" those BCAAs. I find them extremely useful during fasted training or during a very harsh cut where you want to keep calories low and protein ends up being lower (You can take BCAA or EAA to make up for low protein diet). If your protein intake is already high and you aren't training fasted, they likely have small to no benefit.

They have a significant anti-fatigue effect for me intra-set and post-workout. Many like to label is snake oil, but if you are training fasted or protein intake is low, they have real useful applications. My workouts are significantly improved while fasted if i take BCAA.


No issues taking orals on empty stomach in the morning or TUDCA. It's actually my preference.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> In the morning i'm at 70-75 bpm while still in bed , but during the day it get to 90-100 while on computer or eating or whatever.
> 
> I think before i started SSRI i was in the 70's all day and 80+ when really anxious
> 
> So i'm not sure if it's from SSRI or primo , i'm on primo since 15 weeks , will do a 20 week cycle but i lowered from 400mg to 300mg already, and using 180 test P with it.


Both meds may have effect on heart rate. Androgens can sensitize your body to catecholamines (Your adrenaline/dopamine/etc, so BP and HR can increase via this and other mechanisms)


I wouldn't be concerned in the short term, as long as it's not a chronic thing and goes away once you drop the primo.


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo Primo being the safest AAS , it does lower my HDL and increase my LDL at 300-400mg , does it also raise by a lot the RBC production ?
> what about blood pressure/heart rate?


I wouldn't call it the safest AAS, we don't really know that. I would presume the RBC increasing effect is blunted in comparison to testosterone. BP/HR would be an individual thing, some people are sensitive to DHTs in this regard.


----------



## Panda11

@ElChapo 

Is it possible to not have any effects from yohimbine? I'm taking 20mg yohimbine with 20mg rauwolscine fasted with cardio. I'm only experiencing some mild headaches. Can't tell if it's working and having effect or just underdosed/bunk.


----------



## Baka

@ElChapo 
I like Pycnogenol at 200mg / day , which other supplement you'd recommend for an AAS user?
Also, pine bark extract is much cheaper than Pycnogenol , is it worth switching it or pycno is way better?


----------



## SoberHans

Glad you're still here El Chapo, you're the hero we don't deserve.
For my next cycle I want to learn bulk on just winny and test. If I used 500mg test per week and tudca throughout, what's the maximum amount of winny you'd take per day and how long for?
Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

Panda11 said:


> @ElChapo
> 
> Is it possible to not have any effects from yohimbine? I'm taking 20mg yohimbine with 20mg rauwolscine fasted with cardio. I'm only experiencing some mild headaches. Can't tell if it's working and having effect or just underdosed/bunk.


That's a high dose of yohimbine, this is one of those things you can usualIy feel. is it Yohimbine HCL or Yohimbe? What brand?


----------



## ElChapo

Baka said:


> @ElChapo
> I like Pycnogenol at 200mg / day , which other supplement you'd recommend for an AAS user?
> Also, pine bark extract is much cheaper than Pycnogenol , is it worth switching it or pycno is way better?


I trust pycnogenol more and if money is not an issue, i would recommend it over pine bark.


You could try pine bark and see if it works for you.


----------



## ElChapo

SoberHans said:


> Glad you're still here El Chapo, you're the hero we don't deserve.
> For my next cycle I want to learn bulk on just winny and test. If I used 500mg test per week and tudca throughout, what's the maximum amount of winny you'd take per day and how long for?
> Cheers


50 mg daily, 8-12 weeks with 1,000 mg NAC+250-500 mg TUDCA OR UDCA.


----------



## Panda11

ElChapo said:


> That's a high dose of yohimbine, this is one of those things you can usualIy feel. is it Yohimbine HCL or Yohimbe? What brand?


Dark labs double yohimbine, contains 5mg yohimbine HCL and 5mg rauwolscine per serving


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo Few questions

I'm on a cut at the moment. HGH, i am using 2IU per day mon-fri - 

1. Does HGH really assist with fat loss?

2. how "safe" is 2IU in terms of heart/organ growth for a duration of 6 month or more?

3. I am filling a 2ltr bottle of water with around 60g of EAA each day and having it from late morning while usually finishing around 2pm. In the morning i have "proatmeal" and dinner for around 6pm and a light high protein snack in the evening before bed. My goal is to consume as little calories as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible, so using the EAA during the day (approx 250 calories) allows me to hit 1500 to 1700 calories per day while meeting protein quota. Question is is this ~60g of protein being absorbed and used as efficiently the equivalent weight of chicken/turkey would be to provide 60g protein (keeping nutrients you would benefit from the mean out of the equation)? 

4. Yohimbine - would this still have effect if i take it pre-workout without doing cardio during that session? Also, would it have any affect with eating extra belly fat if taken before a 2 mile walk (during my cut i am walking 2 miles a day usually time permitting).

5. Last question, a little off topic, i have a pec strain which has slowly gotten better over the past 10 weeks since i injured it, you said in a post 1 page back that you recommend vit C and Zinc and rest to aid with quicker recovery. I have a tub of ZMA i never used, can i use this to get the Zinc required?

cheers!


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo Few questions
> 
> I'm on a cut at the moment. HGH, i am using 2IU per day mon-fri -
> 
> 1. Does HGH really assist with fat loss?
> 
> 2. how "safe" is 2IU in terms of heart/organ growth for a duration of 6 month or more?
> 
> 3. I am filling a 2ltr bottle of water with around 60g of EAA each day and having it from late morning while usually finishing around 2pm. In the morning i have "proatmeal" and dinner for around 6pm and a light high protein snack in the evening before bed. My goal is to consume as little calories as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible, so using the EAA during the day (approx 250 calories) allows me to hit 1500 to 1700 calories per day while meeting protein quota. Question is is this ~60g of protein being absorbed and used as efficiently the equivalent weight of chicken/turkey would be to provide 60g protein (keeping nutrients you would benefit from the mean out of the equation)?
> 
> 4. Yohimbine - would this still have effect if i take it pre-workout without doing cardio during that session? Also, would it have any affect with eating extra belly fat if taken before a 2 mile walk (during my cut i am walking 2 miles a day usually time permitting).
> 
> 5. Last question, a little off topic, i have a pec strain which has slowly gotten better over the past 10 weeks since i injured it, you said in a post 1 page back that you recommend vit C and Zinc and rest to aid with quicker recovery. I have a tub of ZMA i never used, can i use this to get the Zinc required?
> 
> cheers!


1. Yes, it's proven to improve fat loss in studies and anecdotes from bodybuilders. You still need a caloric deficit.

2. It's safe, but if you have high blood pressure and running hide dose AAS for +6 months, then it will exacerbate that.

3. Don't worry about the exact specifics, your EAA will do the job. 60 g EAA is a lot. Focus on maintaining the weight and reps of all your lifts. If you start to lose weight and reps, that's a sign that muscle loss is happening. 

4. It will help burn fat if you are training fasted and during the 2 mile walk. 

5. Yeah, ZMA is perfectly fine.


----------



## Dute

Hi @ElChapo, I hope you're well.
I was wondering if hgh can cause thickening of the ear? I seem to have thick lumps appearing in my upper inner ear. It's like a thickening similar to cauliflower ear but I've had no trauma to my ears.
My hgh dose has gone up recently but it's not that high...about 4 units 5 x per week. If it's not related I'll check in the the doctor.
Cheers as always


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi @ElChapo, I hope you're well.
> I was wondering if hgh can cause thickening of the ear? I seem to have thick lumps appearing in my upper inner ear. It's like a thickening similar to cauliflower ear but I've had no trauma to my ears.
> My hgh dose has gone up recently but it's not that high...about 4 units 5 x per week. If it's not related I'll check in the the doctor.
> Cheers as always


That shouldn't be happening from GH. It's unlikely but not impossible.


----------



## stewedw

What's new on the thread?

@ElChapo 

Does anyone have a short list of questions they feel should be answered so people don't have to read the entire thread?

I'll start.

Orovidm hoyive a could of cycles u der you belt and that you are 12-15% body part.

What would be a good stack to gain lean mass?

Ancillaries on cycle. What should be have to hand, ie aromasin, nolva, cialis, telemesatin?

Favourite training method for building muscle

Best cardio for conditioning


Cheers


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> What's new on the thread?
> 
> @ElChapo
> 
> Does anyone have a short list of questions they feel should be answered so people don't have to read the entire thread?
> 
> I'll start.
> 
> Orovidm hoyive a could of cycles u der you belt and that you are 12-15% body part.
> 
> What would be a good stack to gain lean mass?
> 
> Ancillaries on cycle. What should be have to hand, ie aromasin, nolva, cialis, telemesatin?
> 
> Favourite training method for building muscle
> 
> Best cardio for conditioning
> 
> 
> Cheers


HGH is a game changer at 2-4 IU ; For lean mass/strength, it's proven to be better at three times weekly dosing, for fat loss do it daily. Your own Dorian Yates is said to have best results on MWF protocol himself. I can attest to this too. Run it year round, it will keep you leaner and your AAS will work a lot better. Healing, recovery, mood and performance will also be improved. (Growth hormone replacement therapy in adults with growth hormone deficiency; thrice weekly low dose administration.)

-----------------

I am partial to test P and superdrol. I like winstrol, however, some guys get joint issues and if you are susceptible to hair loss, it's best to avoid it. Superdrol is extremely good 3D pump look, tons of strength, and lean massing. Test P keeps you dryer than E or C and anecdotally, "feels better" in terms of libido,. mood and energy. Side effect profile of test P/sdrol is pretty minimal versus trenbolone/nandrolone which are notorious for mood issues, erectile/libido issues, gyno, etc.


*The most important thing for gains is 1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus. After that, genetics and AAS can dictate how fast and good the results can be.*

-----------------------

Ancillaries:

Cialis/Tadalafil in case you run into erection issues on cycle.
(2.5-5 mg daily or 20 mg two-three times per week depending on erection quality)

Nizoral/Ketoconazole shampoo protects your hair from male pattern balding/thinning and will even reverse hair loss. Best results seen with 6-12 months consistent use.
(3-7 days per week, leave 5 mins/rinse)

TUDCA+NAC protects the liver on orals by preventing cholestasis, this is the main mechanism of liver toxicity from orals. NAC bolsters the livers antioxidant supply.
(250-500 mg+1,000 mg daily with food)

Raloxifene or tamoxifen will reverse gyno in 4-12 weeks depending on severity.
(60 and 20 mg daily respectively, food increases bioavailability of raloxifene)

BP medication if resting BP is over 160/100 mmhg. I wouldn't be too concerned with levels of 140/90 mmhg short term, but long term, stay under 140/90 mmhg to protect kidneys, heart, etc.

-------------------------------------

My cardio preference is LISS on a bike; It doesn't impact recovery, doesn't increase hunger or stress hormones, easy on the joints and you can watch TV, read or listen to music while doing it. LISS is also the best type of cardio for heart health and health benefits. 20-30 mins 3-7 times per week will do the job and burn calories, make you feel good and keep you healthier. Aim for about 130-150 BPM. This type of cardio makes the heart more elastic and widens the chambers/vessels and improves circulation to your muscles, brain, heart and of course the penis. _*The most important supplement for health is consistent cardiovascular exercise, period.*_

HIIT sharply increases stress hormones, can negatively impact recovery for lifting. A lot of the studies hyping HIIT don't take into account long term results or results in intermediate/advanced athletes, many were done on amateurs and sedentary people. A combo i like to especially avoid and advise againt is HIIT+Keto/low carb diet, this is a cortisol/stress bomb to the body. This means diminished mood, libido, and wellbeing overall.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> HGH is a game changer at 2-4 IU ; For lean mass/strength, it's proven to be better at three times weekly dosing, for fat loss do it daily. Your own Dorian Yates is said to have best results on MWF protocol himself. I can attest to this too. Run it year round, it will keep you leaner and your AAS will work a lot better. Healing, recovery, mood and performance will also be improved. (Growth hormone replacement therapy in adults with growth hormone deficiency; thrice weekly low dose administration.)
> 
> -----------------
> 
> I am partial to test P and superdrol. I like winstrol, however, some guys get joint issues and if you are susceptible to hair loss, it's best to avoid it. Superdrol is extremely good 3D pump look, tons of strength, and lean massing. Test P keeps you dryer than E or C and anecdotally, "feels better" in terms of libido,. mood and energy. Side effect profile of test P/sdrol is pretty minimal versus trenbolone/nandrolone which are notorious for mood issues, erectile/libido issues, gyno, etc.
> 
> 
> *The most important thing for gains is 1. Progressive overload 2. Caloric surplus. After that, genetics and AAS can dictate how fast and good the results can be.*
> 
> -----------------------
> 
> Ancillaries:
> 
> Cialis/Tadalafil in case you run into erection issues on cycle.
> (2.5-5 mg daily or 20 mg two-three times per week depending on erection quality)
> 
> Nizoral/Ketoconazole shampoo protects your hair from male pattern balding/thinning and will even reverse hair loss. Best results seen with 6-12 months consistent use.
> (3-7 days per week, leave 5 mins/rinse)
> 
> TUDCA+NAC protects the liver on orals by preventing cholestasis, this is the main mechanism of liver toxicity from orals. NAC bolsters the livers antioxidant supply.
> (250-500 mg+1,000 mg daily with food)
> 
> Raloxifene or tamoxifen will reverse gyno in 4-12 weeks depending on severity.
> (60 and 20 mg daily respectively, food increases bioavailability of raloxifene)
> 
> BP medication if resting BP is over 160/100 mmhg. I wouldn't be too concerned with levels of 140/90 mmhg short term, but long term, stay under 140/90 mmhg to protect kidneys, heart, etc.
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> My cardio preference is LISS on a bike; It doesn't impact recovery, doesn't increase hunger or stress hormones, easy on the joints and you can watch TV, read or listen to music while doing it. LISS is also the best type of cardio for heart health and health benefits. 20-30 mins 3-7 times per week will do the job and burn calories, make you feel good and keep you healthier. Aim for about 130-150 BPM. This type of cardio makes the heart more elastic and widens the chambers/vessels and improves circulation to your muscles, brain, heart and of course the penis. _*The most important supplement for health is consistent cardiovascular exercise, period.*_
> 
> HIIT sharply increases stress hormones, can negatively impact recovery for lifting. A lot of the studies hyping HIIT don't take into account long term results or results in intermediate/advanced athletes, many were done on amateurs and sedentary people. A combo i like to especially avoid and advise againt is HIIT+Keto/low carb diet, this is a cortisol/stress bomb to the body. This means diminished mood, libido, and wellbeing overall.



So is it common for aas to cause Ed? I always figured it was the opposite? 

I also read that estrogen is essential on a bulk to "drive gains" but at what level, natural or twice natural. 

When I don't run an ai I get softer erections and can lose interest during sex or not have a sex drive, adding aromasin appears to help this greatly but I then struggle to climax and have mess of a feeling in my penis. Is this related to estrogen or just in my head?


----------



## stewedw

Bump


----------



## Dute

Hi @ElChapo. I hope you're well. 
I know you inject your test with insulin needles. I'm finding the luer lock 30g needles excessively slow to push the oil through (with a loss free syringe). 
Although I love using them as they're so pain free and the thought of less scar tissue!

If I backload a fixed 30g syringe will I get better pressure? Or do you use a 29g. The test I use is suspended in mct so it's as thin as it gets I guess.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> So is it common for aas to cause Ed? I always figured it was the opposite?
> 
> I also read that estrogen is essential on a bulk to "drive gains" but at what level, natural or twice natural.
> 
> When I don't run an ai I get softer erections and can lose interest during sex or not have a sex drive, adding aromasin appears to help this greatly but I then struggle to climax and have mess of a feeling in my penis. Is this related to estrogen or just in my head?



AAS can directly and indirectly affect erection quality negatively . Many men feel stronger libido and erection on HRT doses of AAS. This can be cause directly by androgen levels and estrogen levels .


Unless you have symptoms of high E2 or drying out for competition, i wouldn't mess with it. It protects your blood vessels, essential for brain, skeletal, skin health, libido, etc. 


It may be related to estrogen, balancing estrogen is a pain in the ass. You may have needed less aromasin.

What AAS and doses were you running on that cycle? Masteron and DHTs can help.


----------



## ElChapo

Dute said:


> Hi @ElChapo. I hope you're well.
> I know you inject your test with insulin needles. I'm finding the luer lock 30g needles excessively slow to push the oil through (with a loss free syringe).
> Although I love using them as they're so pain free and the thought of less scar tissue!
> 
> If I backload a fixed 30g syringe will I get better pressure? Or do you use a 29g. The test I use is suspended in mct so it's as thin as it gets I guess.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again



Is the 30 g needle attached to a 1/2 mL syringe? The 30g will work very well with 1/2mL syringe but can be very slow on a 1 mL syringe. 27-29 g is better for 1 mL syringes. Warming up the oil will also help.


Backloading won't make a difference, make sure there is no air bubble in syringe as this will increase resistance 

The bigger the syringe volume, the lower pressure you will get and the slower it will flow through a smaller needle.


----------



## Dute

ElChapo said:


> Is the 30 g needle attached to a 1/2 mL syringe? The 30g will work very well with 1/2mL syringe but can be very slow on a 1 mL syringe. 27-29 g is better for 1 mL syringes. Warming up the oil will also help.
> 
> 
> Backloading won't make a difference, make sure there is no air bubble in syringe as this will increase resistance
> 
> The bigger the syringe volume, the lower pressure you will get and the slower it will flow through a smaller needle.


You're a gent. I'll get some supplies. Thanks as always.


----------



## Gymrat12

Hello @ElChapo I would like to ask you.

Does primo, masterone, or winstrol work as an AI? Can they lower the available estrogen in the blood or block it?

Does nandrolone lower DHT or affect it somehow?

And does nandrolone allow more test to be converted into estrogen?

I am asking these questions because some people said that using DHT derivative compounds with test deca cycle will solve all the problems associated with them.
The high prolactin is a result of the elevated Estrogen and low DHT and using primo with them will lower E2 levels and replace your DHT.
Is this hypothesis true? I would really like to hear your comment on this.
Thank you very much.


----------



## MarkyMark

@ElChapo I have since around 4 months ago been on a harsh cut from ~20% bf to approx ~10% which is where i stand now. I have also included a 15 minute HIIT at the end of each lifting session (lifting 5 x per week) - during this time heart rate is approx 150 BPM for the duration of the 15 minutes.

Overall i feel better, more fitter and look a lot better, more defined and now have abs at rest (something i have never really had before).

Moving forward i am going to lean bulk (250ish calories excess per day) for 8 to 10 weeks and throw in a 2-3 week cut where required to ideally stay inside the range of 10% to 15% at most. I find it very easy to eat the majority of my calories from clean carb sources such as sweet potato, rolled oats, brown rice etc also throwing in a lot of veg and leafy greens to my meals. Protein coming from Chicken breast, salmon, white fish eggs and whey protein.

my questions below are all in relation to "nutrition partitioning", some of which are heavily debated on fitness forums alike, however id be interested to get your views:

1. Does being leaner, such as in the region of 8 to 12% body fat push "more calories" into building muscle than being stored as fat than that of someone who has a BF of 15% or more?

2. Does eating a diet heavily made up of complex carbs and lean protein sources favour muscle growth than instead of the excess being stored as fat. for example lets assume their are 2 twin brothers, each are bulking on 500 calories surplus ED, one eats junk food the other very clean (taking general health and wellbeing out of the equation) will the guy who clean bulks build more LBM than the one who eats the junk diet while both consuming the same number of calories each day.

3. Does regular cardio assist in any way with nutrition partitioning to essentially have their body favour nutrients from food to shuttle into muscle building vs stored as fat?


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> AAS can directly and indirectly affect erection quality negatively . Many men feel stronger libido and erection on HRT doses of AAS. This can be cause directly by androgen levels and estrogen levels .
> 
> 
> Unless you have symptoms of high E2 or drying out for competition, i wouldn't mess with it. It protects your blood vessels, essential for brain, skeletal, skin health, libido, etc.
> 
> 
> It may be related to estrogen, balancing estrogen is a pain in the ass. You may have needed less aromasin.
> 
> What AAS and doses were you running on that cycle? Masteron and DHTs can help.


attached is my test and estro levels without and ai. 300mg cyp mom and thus. 

Bloods taken Thurs am fasted five weeks into cycle. Felt fine. No ai. 

Two and a half years ago. 

Same cycle. Now and I've no libido or soft erections. I pop aromasin or add winny and I'm a tenneager again until I miss the Aromsin dose or increase. Never had this issue at all. Cardio is good right now and dieting, unsure if the diet effects libido. Sleep is 9 hours a night the last two to three weeks on average, up from 5-6.

Injuries (shoulder impingement) and other aches appear to be going. Strength is NOT increasing but I'm losing 3lbs a week on 600 sust e/w and 50my winny daily (excessive for a cut?) 

Bloold pressure oddly has also reduced from 140\80 to 135\75. Heartbratebalways low 50s.

Takinf a cialis twice a week to combat the issues 

Should I donate blood and get another new set of bloods done? 

Cheers.


----------



## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> Hello @ElChapo I would like to ask you.
> 
> Does primo, masterone, or winstrol work as an AI? Can they lower the available estrogen in the blood or block it?
> 
> Does nandrolone lower DHT or affect it somehow?
> 
> And does nandrolone allow more test to be converted into estrogen?
> 
> I am asking these questions because some people said that using DHT derivative compounds with test deca cycle will solve all the problems associated with them.
> The high prolactin is a result of the elevated Estrogen and low DHT and using primo with them will lower E2 levels and replace your DHT.
> Is this hypothesis true? I would really like to hear your comment on this.
> Thank you very much.


the main mechanism behind DHTs is that they seem to antagonize the effects of estradiol without affecting the level of E.
(Some anecdotes from people that primo can lower E, wouldnt count on it though)

Nandrolone is a progestogen, so this may antagonize some effects of DHT/androgen in the body. Progestogens like nandrolone and trenbolone can have feminizing effects like gyno and also suppress libido in some people.


90% of the time people don't have "high prolactin" and you can see that in blood work. What they are experiencing is the progestogen effects of 19-nors or high E2 sides.


Yes, DHT compounds can offset both estrogenic and progestogenic sides from high E2 or 19-nor use.


----------



## ElChapo

MarkyMark said:


> @ElChapo I have since around 4 months ago been on a harsh cut from ~20% bf to approx ~10% which is where i stand now. I have also included a 15 minute HIIT at the end of each lifting session (lifting 5 x per week) - during this time heart rate is approx 150 BPM for the duration of the 15 minutes.
> 
> Overall i feel better, more fitter and look a lot better, more defined and now have abs at rest (something i have never really had before).
> 
> Moving forward i am going to lean bulk (250ish calories excess per day) for 8 to 10 weeks and throw in a 2-3 week cut where required to ideally stay inside the range of 10% to 15% at most. I find it very easy to eat the majority of my calories from clean carb sources such as sweet potato, rolled oats, brown rice etc also throwing in a lot of veg and leafy greens to my meals. Protein coming from Chicken breast, salmon, white fish eggs and whey protein.
> 
> my questions below are all in relation to "nutrition partitioning", some of which are heavily debated on fitness forums alike, however id be interested to get your views:
> 
> 1. Does being leaner, such as in the region of 8 to 12% body fat push "more calories" into building muscle than being stored as fat than that of someone who has a BF of 15% or more?
> 
> 2. Does eating a diet heavily made up of complex carbs and lean protein sources favour muscle growth than instead of the excess being stored as fat. for example lets assume their are 2 twin brothers, each are bulking on 500 calories surplus ED, one eats junk food the other very clean (taking general health and wellbeing out of the equation) will the guy who clean bulks build more LBM than the one who eats the junk diet while both consuming the same number of calories each day.
> 
> 3. Does regular cardio assist in any way with nutrition partitioning to essentially have their body favour nutrients from food to shuttle into muscle building vs stored as fat?



1. In theory, yes, because skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity will be higher than when you are fat, however, fat also has insulin sensitivity. The possible increase in nutrient partitioning is just theoretical bonus and not the primary thing we are looking for. The main benefit to staying in a leaner bf range year round (7-15% max) is looking+feeling good, better health and not needing to cut for many months to get lean. 


2. Technically, your body has to turn the excess carbs into glucose and then into fat, which is more difficult than directly storing the fatty acids from the diet. Here is a study suggesting that high fat may lead to more fat storage. Ad libitum intake of a high-carbohydrate or high-fat diet in young men: effects on nutrient balances - PubMed .(study also says high fat diet leads to higher risk of overeating) Also note that carbs are the best macro at increasing LEPTIN, Leptin is the master regulator of hormones and metabolism in the body, and it's the reason many have a hard time staying lean. The leaner you are, the less leptin you produce, but high carb diet keeps leptin levels high. 


My main view is to stick to the basic fundamentals, i wouldn't obsess over the little details, although i do like to keep fat lower on a surplus just in case.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> attached is my test and estro levels without and ai. 300mg cyp mom and thus.
> 
> Bloods taken Thurs am fasted five weeks into cycle. Felt fine. No ai.
> 
> Two and a half years ago.
> 
> Same cycle. Now and I've no libido or soft erections. I pop aromasin or add winny and I'm a tenneager again until I miss the Aromsin dose or increase. Never had this issue at all. Cardio is good right now and dieting, unsure if the diet effects libido. Sleep is 9 hours a night the last two to three weeks on average, up from 5-6.
> 
> Injuries (shoulder impingement) and other aches appear to be going. Strength is NOT increasing but I'm losing 3lbs a week on 600 sust e/w and 50my winny daily (excessive for a cut?)
> 
> Bloold pressure oddly has also reduced from 140\80 to 135\75. Heartbratebalways low 50s.
> 
> Takinf a cialis twice a week to combat the issues
> 
> Should I donate blood and get another new set of bloods done?
> 
> Cheers.


Are you taking T3? Your Free T4 is extremely low. 


How often are you donating blood?


You're estradiol is the level of a woman at peak fertility during ovulation. As we get older, we tend to aromatize more.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Are you taking T3? Your Free T4 is extremely low.
> 
> 
> How often are you donating blood?
> 
> 
> You're estradiol is the level of a woman at peak fertility during ovulation. As we get older, we tend to aromatize more.


I wasn't taking any thyroid meds, just test cyp 1ml m and Thu. 

No ai on that cycle which was the Nov before covid. 

Getting bloods soon, and in answer to your blood donation question, I've not donated for three years. Should I do this more regular than that? 

Thanks again for all the in depth reeponses.


----------



## knuckleheed2

@ElChapo Think I read you previously say that Nizoral is not only good for preventing on cycle hair loss but is also good for regrowth post cycle. After many runs of TTM over the years without any hairloss, I've just been running a low'ish dose of TTM for the first time in around 3 years, however this time I have experienced significant shedding at the front of my hairline. I just turned 50 btw and there is no MPB running in either grandparents or father.

I've been looking at running an aggressive course of topical minoxidil at 10% to see if I can stimulate regrowth once I finish the cycle, however a lot of the info on minoxy seems to be contradictory. I also read that any hair regrown with minoxy will fall out on cessation of use.

What's your thoughts on using minoxidil for cycle induced hair loss and is it true that any regrown hairs due to the treatment will just fall out on cessation of use (I really would like to avoid using forever if need be).

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> I wasn't taking any thyroid meds, just test cyp 1ml m and Thu.
> 
> No ai on that cycle which was the Nov before covid.
> 
> Getting bloods soon, and in answer to your blood donation question, I've not donated for three years. Should I do this more regular than that?
> 
> Thanks again for all the in depth reeponses.



Are you taking any GH? Your Free T4 is damn low, and this can cause issues with libido/erections/etc. Your Free T4 AKA Thyroxine is in the very hypothyroid range. Optimal level is something like 18-23. (GH will increase conversion of T4 to T3, so it will lower Free T4)


No, i would avoid donation because it can make you anemic very easily. Anemia ; fatigue ; worse mood/libido/strength, etc. Not good.


I would suspect your issue is either the very low thyroid hormone level or the very high estradiol. 


Thyroid hormones tend to decrease as you get older and Estradiol production tends to increase.


----------



## ElChapo

knuckleheed2 said:


> @ElChapo Think I read you previously say that Nizoral is not only good for preventing on cycle hair loss but is also good for regrowth post cycle. After many runs of TTM over the years without any hairloss, I've just been running a low'ish dose of TTM for the first time in around 3 years, however this time I have experienced significant shedding at the front of my hairline. I just turned 50 btw and there is no MPB running in either grandparents or father.
> 
> I've been looking at running an aggressive course of topical minoxidil at 10% to see if I can stimulate regrowth once I finish the cycle, however a lot of the info on minoxy seems to be contradictory. I also read that any hair regrown with minoxy will fall out on cessation of use.
> 
> What's your thoughts on using minoxidil for cycle induced hair loss and is it true that any regrown hairs due to the treatment will just fall out on cessation of use (I really would like to avoid using forever if need be).
> 
> Thanks


Hair shedding is NOT the same as balding/thinning. Hair shedding is a normal process, and increased hair shedding can be cause by diet, hormone changes (androgens/thyroid/etc), new medications, stress, etc. 


It's fairly unlikely you are starting to bald at 50, as someone using AAS would have noticed thinning of the crown and hairline by the age of 50. 


Avoid minox as it has been linked to some weird side effects on the skin and the body. Nizoral 2% is just as effective, but again, you may not actually need it. 

*
Nizoral WILL reverse and regrow/rethicken lost/thinning hair, but it takes 6-12 months to see a significant effect.*


----------



## knuckleheed2

ElChapo said:


> Hair shedding is NOT the same as balding/thinning. Hair shedding is a normal process, and increased hair shedding can be cause by diet, hormone changes (androgens/thyroid/etc), new medications, stress, etc.
> 
> 
> It's fairly unlikely you are starting to bald at 50, as someone using AAS would have noticed thinning of the crown and hairline by the age of 50.
> 
> 
> Avoid minox as it has been linked to some weird side effects on the skin and the body. Nizoral 2% is just as effective, but again, you may not actually need it.
> 
> 
> *Nizoral WILL reverse and regrow/rethicken lost/thinning hair, but it takes 6-12 months to see a significant effect.*


I should have added that I have been using nizoral around 1-2 times per week for the last 3 years in a preventative basis while trt'ing on 120mg of test per week.

This is my first real cycle in 3 years and the loss of hair at either side of the front hairline in the last 3 months is really noticeable in that I can actually see the scalp now through the fine hair remaining.

I've heard of some itching and redness caused by minoxidil however interested to hear more on the weird effects that you referred to.

Given that the nizoral doesn't seem to have mitigated the loss, do you still think I should avoid the minoxidil?

Thanks.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Are you taking any GH? Your Free T4 is damn low, and this can cause issues with libido/erections/etc. Your Free T4 AKA Thyroxine is in the very hypothyroid range. Optimal level is something like 18-23. (GH will increase conversion of T4 to T3, so it will lower Free T4)
> 
> 
> No, i would avoid donation because it can make you anemic very easily. Anemia ; fatigue ; worse mood/libido/strength, etc. Not good.
> 
> 
> I would suspect your issue is either the very low thyroid hormone level or the very high estradiol.
> 
> 
> Thyroid hormones tend to decrease as you get older and Estradiol production tends to increase.


.

I've never used gh, this was 2.5 years ago so I'll get bloods and compare and report back. I do feel fatigued at the moment now that you mention it, but I'm on a cut as we speak so figured it was par for the course.


----------



## Billington10

Hi @ElChapo. I’ve been reading your AMA’s awesome stuff. One question regarding bloods. I’ve been experiencing radiating pain down the backs of both my legs for 8 weeks now. Bloods came back with highly elevated CK. Is there a correlation between this and overtraining?


----------



## ElChapo

knuckleheed2 said:


> I should have added that I have been using nizoral around 1-2 times per week for the last 3 years in a preventative basis while trt'ing on 120mg of test per week.
> 
> This is my first real cycle in 3 years and the loss of hair at either side of the front hairline in the last 3 months is really noticeable in that I can actually see the scalp now through the fine hair remaining.
> 
> I've heard of some itching and redness caused by minoxidil however interested to hear more on the weird effects that you referred to.
> 
> Given that the nizoral doesn't seem to have mitigated the loss, do you still think I should avoid the minoxidil?
> 
> Thanks.


1-2 times per week is pushing it, the best studies used it daily. I wouldnt use it less than three times per week.


I would be upping it to 3-7 times per week and if that doesnt work, you could consider a trial of very low dose finasteride.

Minox sides ; mood disturbance, skin aging are some of the weird ones ive heard of


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> .
> 
> I've never used gh, this was 2.5 years ago so I'll get bloods and compare and report back. I do feel fatigued at the moment now that you mention it, but I'm on a cut as we speak so figured it was par for the course.


I would suspect thyroid, and caloric deficit will exacerbate hypothyrodism by reducing T3 production.


----------



## ElChapo

Billington10 said:


> Hi @ElChapo. I’ve been reading your AMA’s awesome stuff. One question regarding bloods. I’ve been experiencing radiating pain down the backs of both my legs for 8 weeks now. Bloods came back with highly elevated CK. Is there a correlation between this and overtraining?



Not enough info to tell, it could be a pinched nerve or spinal problem, its not my field at all. I would follow up with an orthopedic or sports medicine doc.


----------



## knuckleheed2

ElChapo said:


> 1-2 times per week is pushing it, the best studies used it daily. I wouldnt use it less than three times per week.
> 
> 
> I would be upping it to 3-7 times per week and if that doesnt work, you could consider a trial of very low dose finasteride.
> 
> Minox sides ; mood disturbance, skin aging are some of the weird ones ive heard of


How long do you recommend leaving the nizoral on for? I usually try for 5 mins.

Might try the topical finasteride as I 'd be wary of the oral, albeit oral is supposed to be superior.

Thanks


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Are you taking any GH? Your Free T4 is damn low, and this can cause issues with libido/erections/etc. Your Free T4 AKA Thyroxine is in the very hypothyroid range. Optimal level is something like 18-23. (GH will increase conversion of T4 to T3, so it will lower Free T4)
> 
> 
> No, i would avoid donation because it can make you anemic very easily. Anemia ; fatigue ; worse mood/libido/strength, etc. Not good.
> 
> 
> I would suspect your issue is either the very low thyroid hormone level or the very high estradiol.
> 
> 
> Thyroid hormones tend to decrease as you get older and Estradiol production tends to increase.


Started gh for the first time this week 2iu a day min to Fri or every day. 

Should I be using t4 or t3 based on your comments above? 

How quickly do you notice the fat loss and other positive effects of gh (sleep, sense of well being, fullness etc) 

Cheers as always for the answers and help


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo my planned photoshoot cycle is as follows: test e 300mg, 350mg oral winny, 80mcg clen daily + yohimbine hcl fasted cardio. 1000kcal deficit. Tempted to add mast e 3-400mg for the extra cosmetic effect, is this maybe a waste with the winstrol in there or will it provide a better look? Thanks in advance


----------



## ElChapo

knuckleheed2 said:


> How long do you recommend leaving the nizoral on for? I usually try for 5 mins.
> 
> Might try the topical finasteride as I 'd be wary of the oral, albeit oral is supposed to be superior.
> 
> Thanks


5 minutes. I'll usually apply at the start of showering, and by the time i'm done shaving and everything, it's been +5 minutes.


----------



## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> Started gh for the first time this week 2iu a day min to Fri or every day.
> 
> Should I be using t4 or t3 based on your comments above?
> 
> How quickly do you notice the fat loss and other positive effects of gh (sleep, sense of well being, fullness etc)
> 
> Cheers as always for the answers and help


Not necessarily, 2 IU is in the HRT range. T4 is only needed for sure for guys who have hypothyroidism or borderline hypo, when going on GH, the thyroid can't keep up.


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo my planned photoshoot cycle is as follows: test e 300mg, 350mg oral winny, 80mcg clen daily + yohimbine hcl fasted cardio. 1000kcal deficit. Tempted to add mast e 3-400mg for the extra cosmetic effect, is this maybe a waste with the winstrol in there or will it provide a better look? Thanks in advance


I would switch test E to test P, you will be much dryer (for a significant number of guys). The mast might help, but not likely necessary. Winstrol is much stronger for drying out. If that is important to you, use propionate instead of enanthate.


----------



## knuckleheed2

ElChapo said:


> 5 minutes. I'll usually apply at the start of showering, and by the time i'm done shaving and everything, it's been +5 minutes.


That's pretty much my routine also. Now applying daily so will hopefully see some growth over the next 6-12 months.

Now finished the tren and mast. Had intended a final 8 week run down on test and winstrol but have changed out the Winnie for var due to the hairloss. I really only got into Winnie the last few cycles and really rate the strength gains to be had with it so a bit disappointed that I probably need to avoid it now.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.


----------



## ElChapo

knuckleheed2 said:


> That's pretty much my routine also. Now applying daily so will hopefully see some growth over the next 6-12 months.
> 
> Now finished the tren and mast. Had intended a final 8 week run down on test and winstrol but have changed out the Winnie for var due to the hairloss. I really only got into Winnie the last few cycles and really rate the strength gains to be had with it so a bit disappointed that I probably need to avoid it now.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to reply.



Superdrol is a good alternative to winstrol. Anavar is solid though.


----------



## delbo

ElChapo said:


> I would switch test E to test P, you will be much dryer (for a significant number of guys). The mast might help, but not likely necessary. Winstrol is much stronger for drying out. If that is important to you, use propionate instead of enanthate.


thanks for that. I just don't like having to pin eod or ED. Hence the enanthate. What about using arimidex to control the water retention from the longer ester?


----------



## ElChapo

delbo said:


> thanks for that. I just don't like having to pin eod or ED. Hence the enanthate. What about using arimidex to control the water retention from the longer ester?


You can do prop twice or three time weekly.


Long ester test can cause water retention even with low estradiol. Its up to you, for absolute dryness, prop is essential. Some guys dont bloat on long ester though.


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo Is there any point in doing cyclical HGH like taking days or even months off, to avoid tolerance issues? Or can you in theory stay on every day longterm without IGF 1 levels dropping?

Thanks


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo Is there any point in doing cyclical HGH like taking days or even months off, to avoid tolerance issues? Or can you in theory stay on every day longterm without IGF 1 levels dropping?
> 
> Thanks


There isn't a reason to stop. Tolerance does not develop, some people theorize that daily can cause tolerance from studies where kids stopped growing with daily but not Mon/Wed/Fri injections. This is only a growth plate thing. 


I will add, for fat loss = daily GH for muscle/strength gain = MWF. The difference between the two is significant and proven by research and anecdotes from lifters and bodybuilders. 


If you are susceptible to insulin resistance from GH, three times weekly will mitigate that, but being lean and doing cardio regularly will help significantly.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> There isn't a reason to stop. Tolerance does not develop, some people theorize that daily can cause tolerance from studies where kids stopped growing with daily but not Mon/Wed/Fri injections. This is only a growth plate thing.
> 
> 
> I will add, for fat loss = daily GH for muscle/strength gain = MWF. The difference between the two is significant and proven by research and anecdotes from lifters and bodybuilders.
> 
> 
> If you are susceptible to insulin resistance from GH, three times weekly will mitigate that, but being lean and doing cardio regularly will help significantly.


At what dose for fat loss every day versus muscle gain MWF?


----------



## Dannyb0yb

ElChapo said:


> There isn't a reason to stop. Tolerance does not develop, some people theorize that daily can cause tolerance from studies where kids stopped growing with daily but not Mon/Wed/Fri injections. This is only a growth plate thing.
> 
> 
> I will add, for fat loss = daily GH for muscle/strength gain = MWF. The difference between the two is significant and proven by research and anecdotes from lifters and bodybuilders.
> 
> 
> If you are susceptible to insulin resistance from GH, three times weekly will mitigate that, but being lean and doing cardio regularly will help significantly.


The M/W/F protocol for anabolism seems so counterintuitive considering daily split am/pm injections will maximize igf 1 output


----------



## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo Also, are you still a believer in subq over IM for maximizing IGF1? I'm doing 2 iu subq split both am pm currently.

Thanks as always buddy


----------



## delbo

@ElChapo


----------



## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> At what dose for fat loss every day versus muscle gain MWF?


3-5 IU is good, HGH seems to increase lipolysis and inhibit fat gain aka adipogenesis. If you hold water on GH, it may mask some of the fat loss.


----------



## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> The M/W/F protocol for anabolism seems so counterintuitive considering daily split am/pm injections will maximize igf 1 output



It's not just about IGF-1. The problem is that daily GH causes insulin resistance.


MWF you get big IGF increase while increasing insulin sensitivity. IGF-1 increases insulin sensitivity, HGH decreases it. MWF GH is like a hypercharger for muscle insulin sensitivity. It's proven by studies to increase strength and muscle much better with MWF and it's proven by bodybuilders, the most famous being Dorian Yates. 


This same insulin resistance is possibly the reason why DAILY GH is superior for fat loss. The fat cells become resistant to insulin and are a lot less efficient at absorbing glucose/fatty acids.


If IGF-1 was primarily how HGH worked, you would see poor results when running GH with 19NORS like tren/deca because those two compounds highly impair IGF-1 production, yet people get excellent results without the increase in IGF-1. It's like the fallacy that Thyroid only works through T3, when in actuality T4 has it's own effects independent of its conversion to T3.


----------



## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> 3-5 IU is good, HGH seems to increase lipolysis and inhibit fat gain aka adipogenesis. If you hold water on GH, it may mask some of the fat loss.


I was thinking abou this protocol for HGH use, what are your thoughts?
1. HGH at 1iu per day for 6-10 days as initial trial.
2. HGH at 2iu per day for approx 30 to 60 days for general health and weight loss while I am cutting.
Then:
3. HGH 4iu MWF while I am slow bulking for 4 to 6 months, possibly split into 2 doses.
I thought the initial low dose would get me used to HGH and see what sides, if any, I may encounter while I am cutting and then the increased dose on MWF may help with muscle gain during a bulking phase?


----------



## ElChapo

Yeah, you can start on 2 IU, you should be fine on that. It helps a lot to do cardio and be lean to mitigate many of the effects which are caused by GH induced hyperinsulinemia. The GH is magic when it comes to staying leaner on a bulk and maintenance. It is an extremely effective compound for everything and underrated, especially for those at 30 and above in age.


4 IU daily or 10 IU MWF is sweet spot for most bodybuilding benefits, after that, the sides will usually increase by quite a bit, but your body does tend to adjust to some extent. 


If you are going to do MWF, then use 10 IU MWF which is equivalent to about 4 IU daily. You will see substantial strength and muscle gains if you bulk on MWF 10 IU (MWF is proven better for strength/muscle gains). For cutting and maintenance; daily is better.


2-3 IU to start for a month, then 4 IU for the rest of your cycle.


Never take less than 2 IU for the rest of your life. It will keep your brain, skin, muscles, skeletal system young. We age because of the lack of GH/IGF/Testosterone/Estradiol as we get older which is why we get wrinkles, memory problems, muscle loss, fat gain, etc. GH works best when you take and never stop. It is a miracle for health and anti-aging.


----------



## stewedw

ElChapo said:


> Yeah, you can start on 2 IU, you should be fine on that. It helps a lot to do cardio and be lean to mitigate many of the effects which are caused by GH induced hyperinsulinemia. The GH is magic when it comes to staying leaner on a bulk and maintenance. It is an extremely effective compound for everything and underrated, especially for those at 30 and above in age.
> 
> 
> 4 IU daily or 10 IU MWF is sweet spot for most bodybuilding benefits, after that, the sides will usually increase by quite a bit, but your body does tend to adjust to some extent.
> 
> 
> If you are going to do MWF, then use 10 IU MWF which is equivalent to about 4 IU daily. You will see substantial strength and muscle gains if you bulk on MWF 10 IU (MWF is proven better for strength/muscle gains). For cutting and maintenance; daily is better.
> 
> 
> 2-3 IU to start for a month, then 4 IU for the rest of your cycle.
> 
> 
> Never take less than 2 IU for the rest of your life. It will keep your brain, skin, muscles, skeletal system young. We age because of the lack of GH/IGF/Testosterone/Estradiol as we get older which is why we get wrinkles, memory problems, muscle loss, fat gain, etc. GH works best when you take and never stop. It is a miracle for health and anti-aging.


So I'm on 2iu a day for three weeks no and will increase to 3iu each morning. 

Are there ANY muscle building effects at that does and frequency at all? I'm doing a recomp/cut as I'm not injury free so is it on a small. Dose of test 600mg a week, nothing else and cutting a lilo a week. Everything's fine, too early to tell if the gh is helping. 

When I then go to bukkd should I maybe do 2iu each morning but on m w f do another 3iu? Money isn't a concern. 

Also, if you were to lost negatives what are they. 

For example can you gide yourself diabetes due to the ffect it has on insulin? When I'm cut I'm 6 2 89kg and 9% (at least I was pre covid) I'm also 41. So I'm hoping to get leaver and to increase my aas use etc within reason and get another 10kg tissue in the next 12-18 months but try and be this level of lean. Is that doable? 

Do I or should I get bloods to see if my t4 and t3 are in sync and should I run any supplements apart from nac tuddca, good multi bit and greens and maybe telemesatin? 

Thanks 

Ps my bloods from years ago were in a thread above for ref
Lpw thyroid and high estrogen.


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## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo any benefits to localized HGH IM injections for injury healing / rehabilitation?


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## delbo

@ElChapo besides obviously being as lean as possible, any tips on final week or two of a photoshoot prep? Any advice would be great thanks.


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## ElChapo

stewedw said:


> So I'm on 2iu a day for three weeks no and will increase to 3iu each morning.
> 
> Are there ANY muscle building effects at that does and frequency at all? I'm doing a recomp/cut as I'm not injury free so is it on a small. Dose of test 600mg a week, nothing else and cutting a lilo a week. Everything's fine, too early to tell if the gh is helping.
> 
> When I then go to bukkd should I maybe do 2iu each morning but on m w f do another 3iu? Money isn't a concern.
> 
> Also, if you were to lost negatives what are they.
> 
> For example can you gide yourself diabetes due to the ffect it has on insulin? When I'm cut I'm 6 2 89kg and 9% (at least I was pre covid) I'm also 41. So I'm hoping to get leaver and to increase my aas use etc within reason and get another 10kg tissue in the next 12-18 months but try and be this level of lean. Is that doable?
> 
> Do I or should I get bloods to see if my t4 and t3 are in sync and should I run any supplements apart from nac tuddca, good multi bit and greens and maybe telemesatin?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ps my bloods from years ago were in a thread above for ref
> Lpw thyroid and high estrogen.



For muscle building, you should be doing MWF, not daily. Daily is best for fat loss and staying lean. MWF has a significant effect on strength and muscle. 


7-10 IU on MWF, you will see real results and it will keep you leaner. Which is the equivalent of about 3-4 iu daily. 


Negatives; you may get some water retention and you may feel sleepy after eating. I recommend mornings and fasting until around 12 PM, this will help mitigate the hyperinsulinemia somewhat. You should feel a strong sense of mental wellbeing after the 7-10 IU.


As someone in their 40s, GH will especially have a significant effect on keeping you in top shape and performance. I have seen GH Keep people the same weight while getting significantly leaner AND stronger/more muscular.


Most people don't need thyroid with GH, unless they are hypo or borderline, GH already increases T3 production. Most important supplement is cardiovascular exercise, especially on GH, it will help with blood sugar.


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## ElChapo

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo any benefits to localized HGH IM injections for injury healing / rehabilitation?


Nope, but the systemic IGF will improve wound healing, and growth hormone makes the cells themselves produce IGF-1. Zinc+Vitamin C will also improve wound healing, and more importantly complete rest at the early state of injury.


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## ElChapo

delbo said:


> @ElChapo besides obviously being as lean as possible, any tips on final week or two of a photoshoot prep? Any advice would be great thanks.


Honestly, not really, not my field. I'm more into being really lean year round, i know quite a bit about that.


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## UK2USA

ElChapo said:


> For muscle building, you should be doing MWF, not daily. Daily is best for fat loss and staying lean. MWF has a significant effect on strength and muscle.
> 
> 
> 7-10 IU on MWF, you will see real results and it will keep you leaner. Which is the equivalent of about 3-4 iu daily.
> 
> 
> Negatives; you may get some water retention and you may feel sleepy after eating. I recommend mornings and fasting until around 12 PM, this will help mitigate the hyperinsulinemia somewhat. You should feel a strong sense of mental wellbeing after the 7-10 IU.
> 
> 
> As someone in their 40s, GH will especially have a significant effect on keeping you in top shape and performance. I have seen GH Keep people the same weight while getting significantly leaner AND stronger/more muscular.
> 
> 
> Most people don't need thyroid with GH, unless they are hypo or borderline, GH already increases T3 production. Most important supplement is cardiovascular exercise, especially on GH, it will help with blood sugar.


And as a single shot, not in divided doses?


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## ElChapo

UK2USA said:


> And as a single shot, not in divided doses?


Divided doses would be ideal for fat loss, but once daily in the AM SQ does the job. 


If your priority is staying lean during maintenance, do daily, for cutting 1-3 per day , daily. and for bulking; three times per week. 


Note that daily doses higher than 3 IU and 7 IU MWF will usually lead to higher levels of water retention. So if you are taking +4 IU, it can mask your fat loss until you lower the dosage. Eating higher carb/salt will increase the water retention, doing cardio regularly can help.


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## Lawrence 82

Hi @ElChapo im on trt 125mg pw split into 2 jabs . I’ve been on the protocol for years , turning 40 at end of month , just had my recent bloods done and once again blood markers are fine and in range except for my blood platelets , this is becoming a common issue , is there a link with testosterone replacement and it lowering blood platelets ? Many thanks


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## stewedw

Excellent info as usual @ElChapo


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## ElChapo

Lawrence 82 said:


> Hi @ElChapo im on trt 125mg pw split into 2 jabs . I’ve been on the protocol for years , turning 40 at end of month , just had my recent bloods done and once again blood markers are fine and in range except for my blood platelets , this is becoming a common issue , is there a link with testosterone replacement and it lowering blood platelets ? Many thanks
> View attachment 218750


You are 100% fine and it's likely not related to TRT.


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## Gymrat12

Hello @ElChapo , recently I have been experiencing tiredness and I feel very heavy if I want to run or do any cardio.
I feel pressure in my head like if it is going to blow up. I am not sure what causes that? Is it high bp? or high hematocrit. So I donated blood in order to see what would happen and I tested my blood pressure before donating and the result was 156/67 I was running a little bit before donating, I don't know if that may elevate my BP. Another thing is that I smoke like a cigarette or two and then I quit smoking for two days after that. I am not sure if the nicotine withdrawal can cause that feeling as well.

But in case I needed a blood pressure medication which drug do you think is the best in my case? a drug that doesn't cause erection problems like beta blockers, or a drug that impacts my performance at the gym or my concentration at work and study? I don't know if there is a neutral medicine like that.


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## ElChapo

Gymrat12 said:


> Hello @ElChapo , recently I have been experiencing tiredness and I feel very heavy if I want to run or do any cardio.
> I feel pressure in my head like if it is going to blow up. I am not sure what causes that? Is it high bp? or high hematocrit. So I donated blood in order to see what would happen and I tested my blood pressure before donating and the result was 156/67 I was running a little bit before donating, I don't know if that may elevate my BP. Another thing is that I smoke like a cigarette or two and then I quit smoking for two days after that. I am not sure if the nicotine withdrawal can cause that feeling as well.
> 
> But in case I needed a blood pressure medication which drug do you think is the best in my case? a drug that doesn't cause erection problems like beta blockers, or a drug that impacts my performance at the gym or my concentration at work and study? I don't know if there is a neutral medicine like that.


Did you started feeling tired/heavy after quitting smoking? 


Yes, running or activity will elevate BP. You should be fully rested when testing BP. Preferably when relaxed in the morning on a day off. First you want to see if your BP is actually high, then identify the cause ; lack of cardio, overweight status, medications/caffeine/stress, AAS dose. Many times high BP can be addressed without meds. 


If you need meds, very low dose beta blocker can do the trick without negative sides. Some people also have good results from angiotensin receptor blockers like losartan . 










(Credit: Excel Male TRT Forum)


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## Gymrat12

ElChapo said:


> Did you started feeling tired/heavy after quitting smoking?


I smoke one day a couple of cigarettes and then I quit few days and I keep repeating the same thing, so I am hypothesizing that I might be feeling irritated due to the constant nicotine withdrawal.

Anyway, I just would like to know why most doctors prescribe beta blockers instead of other medications?


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## mosfetboy

ElChapo said:


> Honestly, not really, not my field. I'm more into being really lean year round, i know quite a bit about that.


This is really interesting..... Why you don't talk more about that?


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## mosfetboy

@ElChapo what can be a good starting dose of PEDS (AAS+HGH+SLIN) for a growth phase for a 245lbs guy 6'?


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## Dannyb0yb

@ElChapo Being in my mid thirties, I'm starting to contemplate the idea of TRT. Unfortunately I live in a conservative country where legally it's not an option, unless your levels are crazy low, so I'll have to do all the research myself etc. I'll still try to get my test levels measured at the doctor tho, to get an idea of where they're at.


Can you point me in the direction of knowledge/litterature/protocols on TRT? As it will have to be self administered.


Thanks!


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## mosfetboy

Dannyb0yb said:


> @ElChapo Being in my mid thirties, I'm starting to contemplate the idea of TRT. Unfortunately I live in a conservative country where legally it's not an option, unless your levels are crazy low, so I'll have to do all the research myself etc. I'll still try to get my test levels measured at the doctor tho, to get an idea of where they're at.
> 
> 
> Can you point me in the direction of knowledge/litterature/protocols on TRT? As it will have to be self administered.
> 
> 
> Thanks!


In my country no doc will ever give you TRT, so when i decided to jump on it, first i paid a private lab to test my Total Testosterone and Estradiol, just to see my levels as natty.

Then i decided to inject 250mg ew of TestE, did that for 4 weeks then i redid same blood test and introduced an AI to keep estradiol levels in check. I used Arimidex as AI since it was the easier to source.

Basically you take AI, then check for E2, if fine you are done, if not you add more ai, and after 4 weeks you redo the bloods and so on so on until you find the correct volues of E2 for you.


You don't need any doctor for all that.


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